[
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3622
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 19367,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 19367,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 638666,
      "EditedText": "The position with SSI 1999/150 is exactly the same. Again, we have received an acknowledgement of the Executive's error. We will take no action to advise Parliament, now that we have drawn the error to the Executive's attention. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3622
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No. 3) (Scotland) Revocation Order 1999 (SSI 1999/159)",
      "HeadingID": 19368,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 19368,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 638668,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3622
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 19370,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 19370,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 638671,
      "EditedText": "I now draw the meeting to a conclusion. Thank you for coming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3622
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 19370,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 19370,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 638672,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:20."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3622
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)",
      "HeadingID": 19366,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19366,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638664,
      "EditedText": "We have a short agenda today. We begin with the Executive's responses on statutory instruments. We had raised various matters with regard to SSI 1999/149, and we have received a response that appears to indicate that the Executive may have got this wrong but that that will make no discernible difference. It appears that the Executive has recognised its error; I hope that that error will not be repeated. It is suggested that we highlight the need for care, rather than draw the instrument to the attention of Parliament. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3622
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19365,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19365,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638662,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:17"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3622
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19365,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19365,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 638663,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. We are quorate—despite the inclement weather."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3622
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)",
      "HeadingID": 19366,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19366,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638665,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3622
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No. 3) (Scotland) Revocation Order 1999 (SSI 1999/159)",
      "HeadingID": 19368,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 19368,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 638667,
      "EditedText": "The Executive has acknowledged that the wrong section was referred to in SSI 1999/159, but indicates that no problems arise for the implementation of the instrument. Are we agreed that we should simply note the instrument?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3622
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No. 2) (Scotland) Partial Revocation Order 1999 (SSI 1999/160)",
      "HeadingID": 19369,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ID": 19369,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 638669,
      "EditedText": "The position with regard to SSI 1999/160 is the same. Again, are we agreed that we simply note the instrument, as we have pointed out the error to the Executive?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3622
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 19370,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 19370,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 638670,
      "EditedText": "The final item relates to the revision of standing orders. Are we agreed that it would be better for us—or rather, the clerks—magnanimously to take that on, instead of passing it to the Procedures Committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C625472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18753,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18753,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 625472,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:35"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 625478,
      "EditedText": "Essentially, the issue is the linkage between payment and action, and the wording needs to reflect that more clearly than it does now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 625484,
      "EditedText": "I do not feel strongly one way or the other, but if we are trying to prevent problems, it would be useful to have an example. Folk might not necessarily always go to the clerks for advice. It also puts a lot of the onus on the clerks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 625487,
      "EditedText": "So the suggestion is that we take that sentence out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 625489,
      "EditedText": "That is a valid point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 625492,
      "EditedText": "I understand the issue that John raised. There have been circumstances in the past when, for example, people have brought boxes of sweets into the office. I do not believe that this section applies to those situations. We are liable to trivialise the issue if we say that that is what the section is about. Those situations are covered by the section on gifts, rather than the one on paid advocacy. Being given a box of sweets because you have helped someone is not paid advocacy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 625494,
      "EditedText": "But that would be covered in the section on gifts. If someone accepted a gift of £1,000, they would have to declare it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 625495,
      "EditedText": "They should not take it."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625501",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 625501,
      "EditedText": "I agree."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625504",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 625504,
      "EditedText": "I see what you are saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 625505,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on page 3?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 625507,
      "EditedText": "We should look at the form of words in the section on gifts to see whether it would fit in here. It might not, but we could work on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 625508,
      "EditedText": "Does not page 3 conflict with page 4 on the matter of hospitality? The fifth paragraph of page 4 states that remuneration\"includes benefits or hospitality which members receive\".It goes on to say:\"e.g. hospitality received in relation to Committee visits or on behalf of the Parliament.\"When committees visit local authorities, modest hospitality is acceptable. There is a problem with this somewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
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      "ID": 2140,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 625509,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but this section of the code deals not with hospitality, but with paid advocacy. It is about being \"in consideration of\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 625514,
      "EditedText": "But I should not go if I believe that it will influence my actions on the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625516",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 625516,
      "EditedText": "I might wish to see an opera at first hand."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 625517,
      "EditedText": "But we are talking about paid advocacy, which is advocating something in consideration of the fact that you will receive a favour. In your example, you would not be advocating something for that purpose; you would be going along to increase your education or your awareness of that issue. The most important point concerns \"in consideration of\". Is that okay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625518",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 625518,
      "EditedText": "I am clear about it."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625520",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 625520,
      "EditedText": "Can you calm down a bit and stay on page 3?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625532",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 625532,
      "EditedText": "The issue of sponsorship might just muddy the waters."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625537",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 625537,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any comments on page 4?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625538",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 625538,
      "EditedText": "The penultimate paragraph of page 4 says:\"It should be noted that this includes benefits or hospitality which members receive in the course of their Parliamentary duties, e.g. hospitality received in relation to Committee visits or on behalf of the Parliament.\"Does that include food?"
    },
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  },
  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 625540,
      "EditedText": "But the word \"hospitality\" is there in black and white."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 625541,
      "EditedText": "It might be possible to receive hospitality for a consideration. We need to cover everything in that respect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 625546,
      "EditedText": "However, if an individual member decided to change his or her attitude towards an organisation as a result of receiving a meal, a bottle of wine or other hospitality, that would have been done in consideration of what he or she had received and would break the rules on paid advocacy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 625551,
      "EditedText": "Okay. Do members have any comments on page 5 of the section?Dare I move on to page 6?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 625556,
      "EditedText": "Can we add something that might not be legally binding but which brings the matter to people's attention? We do not want to have a situation in which individuals in same-sex relationships or in unmarried relationships are not under the same obligations as everyone else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
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      "ID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 625560,
      "EditedText": "But we have two legal definitions. If I were not married to my husband—which I am—but was living with him in a relationship that might be as binding as a marriage arrangement, would I be excluded from that definition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 625561,
      "EditedText": "I will ask the clerk to explain this point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C625562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 625562,
      "EditedText": "The word \"associate\" appears in article 6 of the members' interests order and is defined in article 2 of that order. It is defined as being construed in accordance with section 74 of the Bankruptcy (Scotland) Act 1985. All we are saying in the code is what the definition in law is in the members' interests order.I do not think that you can alter that at this point, but when you come back to writing the legislation, you can word it differently and include a different definition under paid advocacy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 625566,
      "EditedText": "That comes from the language of the 1985 act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 625567,
      "EditedText": "We cannot change it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 625569,
      "EditedText": "All we have done is to lift words straight from the definition that was passed in an act in 1985."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 625576,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should be amending certain sections of that act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 625577,
      "EditedText": "We should."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 625579,
      "EditedText": "Fifteen years ago, that was the language of the day. It is not the language of today, and we need to amend it—but we cannot do that just now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 625580,
      "EditedText": "Let us move on to page 7, which is the last page of the section on paid advocacy. Is everybody happy with it?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C625582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 625582,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 625588,
      "EditedText": "The last sentence of the paragraph says:\"A complaint raised by an MSP should not be communicated to the press or other media until a decision has been made as to how the complaint is to be dealt with.\"I think that that is quite clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625595",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
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      "ID": 1970,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 625595,
      "EditedText": "I want to be clear about that, Mike. I thought that we had agreed in the interim complaints procedure that all complaints should be routed through the clerk to the committee—whether they come from an MSP or from anybody else. Although we can have no sanctions against anybody else, we do have sanctions against MSPs who use an inappropriate procedure. We should be absolutely clear that all complaints should come through the route that we have laid down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
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      "EditedText": "On page 2, the draft states:\"The Committee may seek the services of an adviser to assist with aspects of its consideration.\"I wonder whether the word \"seek\" is appropriate there. It might be better to say, \"Where appropriate, the Committee may take on the services of an adviser to assist with aspects of its consideration.\" I just wanted to flag that up."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625604",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
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      "EditedText": "I think that we must ask. However, we can firm up the language a bit."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625605",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 625605,
      "EditedText": "I hope that we are not straying into an old debate."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625607",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
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      "EditedText": "We move on to page 3. I think that there is a small inconsistency in sub-paragraphs (a), (b) and (c). In sub-paragraph (b), on allowances, and sub-paragraph (c), on treatment of staff, we say that if a matter cannot be sorted out by the corporate body, it should be referred to the Standards Committee. I would like to apply the same procedure in sub-paragraph (a)."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625619",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 625619,
      "EditedText": "I am told that this has come directly from the corporate body's material."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 625620,
      "EditedText": "Three categories were identified."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 625622,
      "EditedText": "That is right. That is why I think that we must—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625626",
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 625626,
      "EditedText": "That is why we delayed dealing with this section until our last meeting before the recess."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625629",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "ContributionID": 625629,
      "EditedText": "We may go with the present wording, but something may need to be added."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625630",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 625630,
      "EditedText": "We might make some reference to employment law."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625633",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 625633,
      "EditedText": "I think we need to check that."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625636",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 625636,
      "EditedText": "Despite the fact that the contract of employment is put together more or less by the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625638",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 625638,
      "EditedText": "A 14-page standard contract of employment is supplied."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625640",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 625640,
      "EditedText": "I am pretty sure of it, as I was involved in drawing up the model contract. A procedure is laid down in the model contract that addresses the role of the personnel office in dealing with complaints by an employee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625641",
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    },
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 625641,
      "EditedText": "You may want to refer to that in the code of conduct."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625647",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 625647,
      "EditedText": "We now turn to page 6, which deals with criminal offences."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625648",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 625648,
      "EditedText": "A fine of level 5 is mentioned. Out of curiosity, how many levels are there on the standard scale?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 625649,
      "EditedText": "I do not know. That reference is lifted directly from the order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 625652,
      "EditedText": "It is quite clear that issues of enforcement would not come before the Standards Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 625656,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps a way round that would be to say that the Presiding Officer may refer a case to the Standards Committee or to the Parliamentary Bureau in those circumstances. The Parliamentary Bureau has one way of dealing with it—by a motion of the Parliament—but we might have another way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 625659,
      "EditedText": "No. The convener of the committee has that authority.Let us consider the other items on pages 6 and 7."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 625664,
      "EditedText": "Far be it from us to take powers from the Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 625675,
      "EditedText": "There are issues that may arise in the future that concern committees. I want to ensure that \"committees\" is included somewhere in the code."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 625677,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we use, \"proceedings of the Parliament or its committees\". That would be a good catch-all definition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 625678,
      "EditedText": "Generally or specifically."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 625679,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We will include that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 625680,
      "EditedText": "Can we compel members to attend particular meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 625682,
      "EditedText": "We should exclude \"Parliamentary Party meetings\" from the second bullet point. We have no remit in relation to that. We might want to think about excluding members from committees of which they are not members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 625684,
      "EditedText": "If the conditions of the third bullet point are imposed—if a member's right of access to the parliamentary complex is withdrawn—a member's right to participate in their parliamentary group is effectively withdrawn, unless other groups do not meet as the Labour group does. The member would be unable to enter the building."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 625688,
      "EditedText": "So they are more to do with the Presiding Officer and ministers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 625693,
      "EditedText": "A member might employ people through the allowances scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 625474,
      "EditedText": "I have a comment, which picks up on a point that you made. As it stands, article 6 of the order is probably unsatisfactory, and we should flag that up in the report that we give eventually to Parliament. If there is legislation in that area, we might want to revise the article. However, this part of the code reflects the present legislative framework, so we must take it as a given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 625475,
      "EditedText": "That is absolutely right. The clerks note your point, and we will flag it up.  Are there any comments on page 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 625476,
      "EditedText": "The last sentence of the first paragraph requires two or three readings to be fully comprehensible. I do not disagree with what it tries to say, but the wording is not 100 per cent clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 625479,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on page 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 625482,
      "EditedText": "I think that in a previous section we decided that we should identify the principles and suggest that members go to the clerks for advice. It might be appropriate to say that members should be cautious when, for example, they are invited on fact-finding missions, and should ensure that they work within the rules."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 625483,
      "EditedText": "We are having difficulties because we have two opinions and there are only three of us here. I am tempted to leave the text as it is, but to ask the clerks for an alternative section so that we can compare the two versions at our meeting in January. Is that a feasible way forward, given that there is obviously a difference of view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 625485,
      "EditedText": "I tend to agree with the view that Karen Gillon has just expressed, but acknowledge that Des McNulty has a legitimate point of view and would like to explore it. It would be useful to compare those two options at our meeting in January when we consider the whole code. Are you satisfied with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 625488,
      "EditedText": "The sentence does not help us. What is prohibited is the member acting as is described in those paragraphs in return for, or in anticipation of, remuneration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 625491,
      "EditedText": "That is a valid point, but it is covered by the fact that the paid advocacy rule prevents members from advocating causes \"in consideration of\" remuneration. That is the key. I am inclined to suggest that we remove the last sentence. Karen, do you have any thoughts on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
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      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 625497,
      "EditedText": "The rule is: if in doubt, go to the clerk."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 625498,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely right, but coming back to the issue in question, we are talking about paid advocacy, which is a different kettle of fish from hospitality. I am inclined to suggest that we take Des McNulty's suggestion and remove that last sentence. Are we agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 625499,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on page 2? Are there any comments on page 3?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 625502,
      "EditedText": "At the top of page 3, do we need the phrase:\"remuneration in the form of\"?We could say \"received assistance\". We want to make it clear that members can receive assistance, but they cannot receive remuneration. We are trying to draw a boundary between assistance and remuneration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 625506,
      "EditedText": "We should take the same approach on hospitality that we took on gifts, and refer to the principle and the opportunity for members to seek advice from the clerks. We do not want the rule to make distinctions in regard to modest hospitality such as cups of tea and coffee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 625510,
      "EditedText": "I am a member of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. As a member of that committee, I am invited to various cultural and sporting events. I understand that if I went to an opera performance, that would not preclude me from taking part in committee business that involved, for example, Scottish Opera, as long as I did not go to the opera and act in my capacity as a member of the committee and in consideration of the benefits to the opera."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 625515,
      "EditedText": "I can see your point. That is what I wonder about."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 625521,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 625524,
      "EditedText": "The guidance on the detail of the paid advocacy rule is on page 4. I am concerned that examples are on page 3, because we go on to talk about the guidance and interpretation, and then points of detail. On pages 2 and 3, we should focus on the principles. Then we should move on to the definition of remuneration and the legal advice to members. Having examples in the discussion sections could be confusing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 625528,
      "EditedText": "Sponsorship and giving money towards election expenses are two very different issues."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625529",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    "Committee": {
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    },
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    },
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 625529,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that trade unions should not be able to contribute to election expenses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 625531,
      "EditedText": "Trade unions should be able to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 625535,
      "EditedText": "The clerks have just reminded me that Lord Watson received sponsorship from an organisation. Perhaps it would be best to remove the words \"Trade Union\".I am still on page 3. I will not turn over until I get the go-ahead."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 625536,
      "EditedText": "Carry on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 625542,
      "EditedText": "I have some sympathy with John's point. Hospitality in the form of cups of tea during a committee visit has no real relevance to the paid advocacy section. Perhaps the sentence that John mentioned does not add anything to that section."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 625543,
      "EditedText": "The clerk's advice reinforces what I said before. This section makes it clear that members are not allowed to receive hospitality in consideration of remuneration.We dealt with the issue of hospitality at the previous meeting; today, we are considering paid advocacy. As far as that is concerned, any form of remuneration is out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 625544,
      "EditedText": "I understand what you mean, but perhaps your explanation is confusing other members. If the Education, Culture and Sport Committee visits another organisation to take evidence, committee members are perfectly entitled to have tea and coffee during that visit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 625545,
      "EditedText": "Or even a meal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 625549,
      "EditedText": "Members of the Scottish Grand Committee used to say that Glasgow gave them the greatest nosh-up anywhere in Scotland. However, I am sure that that did not influence any of the committee's decisions on Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 625552,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify something. I was reading about Linda Fabiani in the newspapers this morning. As I understand the section, Linda would not be precluded from taking part in debates on East Timor because she did not do anything in consideration of remuneration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 625557,
      "EditedText": "I share your view, but the clerk's advice is that we need to discuss the issue again when we examine the legislation in future. We are not able to do that in the committee. However, the issue is important, which is why I raised it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 625559,
      "EditedText": "That is not legally possible, because it would create two legal definitions. Perhaps it would be best if we left the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 625563,
      "EditedText": "We could bring that to the attention of the Executive for early consideration, because we do not want to have two classes of MSPs, with the class depending on what relationship they are in. That would be wrong, and would set the wrong tone for the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 625564,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and we have flagged that up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 625565,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to be pedantic, but bullet point 2 on page 6 reads:\"A person is an associate of any person with whom he is in partnership\".Should not that be \"he/she\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 625570,
      "EditedText": "Have we no power to insert additional words?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 625571,
      "EditedText": "Not into the definition that comes from the act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 625574,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that she will, but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 625583,
      "EditedText": "We will now move on to the enforcement section of the code—section 9. The text that has been provided to members has been the subject of considerable thought to ensure that what is proposed is legally defensible. Considerations of the European convention on human rights are central to this section. Members should bear that in mind as we go through the text page by page. Our scope to change the proposed arrangements is limited by that. Having said that, we have already made a major contribution to parts of the text on complaints procedures.Are there any comments on page 1 of the draft code? There are paragraphs on \"How to make a complaint\", \"Action on a complaint\" and \"Complaints to be considered by the Standards Committee\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 625586,
      "EditedText": "As it is, the paragraph would not stop anyone saying, \"I'm going to make a complaint and I'll take it to Mike Rumbles and the Standards Committee—but before I do that on Monday morning, I'll take it to the press on Sunday night.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 625589,
      "EditedText": "Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 169
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 625590,
      "EditedText": "It is a very important point that needs to be emphasised."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 625592,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but this paragraph refers to a complaint raised by an MSP. We cannot have any sanctions against anybody else who raises complaints."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 625593,
      "EditedText": "No, but we are setting a standard for ourselves. I hope that others will follow it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 625594,
      "EditedText": "Every MSP must be aware that this committee would treat as a very serious matter anyone releasing a complaint to the press before lodging it with the clerk to the Standards Committee, and before we had met to decide on a course of action. That would be a serious breach of this code."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 625596,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that, instead of the first two words of the paragraph being \"A complaint\", they should be \"All complaints\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 625598,
      "EditedText": "\"Any complaint\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 625606,
      "EditedText": "No—I will try not to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 625609,
      "EditedText": "We will ensure that all three sub-paragraphs are written in the same way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 625610,
      "EditedText": "I have a question about the procedure for reports to Parliament. The document says that the committee\"will report to the Parliament\",but it does not say how. Do we need to specify that? Does it have to be a written report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625614",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 625614,
      "EditedText": "So we would lodge a motion on behalf of the Standards Committee."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625615",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 625615,
      "EditedText": "We move to page 4 and the section headed \"Sanctions\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 625618,
      "EditedText": "She can take it away and examine it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625621",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 625621,
      "EditedText": "The advice that I have received is that this comes within the bounds of employment law governing the relationship between an individual employee and his or her employer."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625623",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 625623,
      "EditedText": "It will be very difficult to deal with the third situation that Des McNulty describes. An individual employee will have a complaints and grievance procedure and, ultimately, the sanction of an industrial tribunal. That is slightly different from the situation to which Des is referring, involving a member and someone whom they do not employ. We would need to check out the employment law on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 625627,
      "EditedText": "For our meeting in January, can we check to see whether we need to add anything?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 625628,
      "EditedText": "We will check it with the lawyers again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 625632,
      "EditedText": "Not necessarily; the code governs parliamentary duties. This is a difficult area on which the lawyers need to give advice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 625635,
      "EditedText": "No. The relationship between the MSP and his or her staff is a personal one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 625637,
      "EditedText": "No, the contract of employment is put together by the MSP and their staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 625639,
      "EditedText": "The contract of employment is between an MSP and his or her staff. The personnel office of the Parliament has been helpful to members by providing them with a huge amount of information and help, but that does not negate the responsibility of the individual employer to his or her employees. We should not get into that issue, but we will ask the lawyers to look at this particular paragraph again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 625643,
      "EditedText": "We should do that. Are there any other issues on page 4?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C625644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
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      "EditedText": "No."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C625646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ContributionID": 625646,
      "EditedText": "No."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 625654,
      "EditedText": "There is a contradiction. It is obvious that, if I am out of order, you have the power to exclude me from this committee. You would not have to refer the matter through 23 sub-committees to decide whether I could be excluded. However, the second paragraph on page 7 says:\"The Parliament may decide, on a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau, to exclude the member for a further period.\"If we are adding under this part, on the complaints that are to be referred elsewhere, that, ultimately, members could be referred to the Standards Committee, such a motion should be lodged by the Standards Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 625658,
      "EditedText": "If the convener could simply name the member and exclude them from the rest of the meeting, he or she would not have to move a motion on that, and have another member of the committee second it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 625660,
      "EditedText": "We should consider whether there should be a catch-all point of reference, to state that the Presiding Officer may refer a member to the Standards Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 625661,
      "EditedText": "If they think a member is acting in a manner that breaches the code of conduct, any member of the Parliament should be able to refer the matter to this committee. If someone shouts across the chamber, a member should be able to refer the matter to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 625662,
      "EditedText": "We will insert a catch-all statement at the end. In the army we had a catch-all section—section 69—but perhaps I should not refer to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 625665,
      "EditedText": "The next two paragraphs deal with breaches of the allowances code and the treatment of staff. Do members have any points to raise on those paragraphs?"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "ContributionID": 625668,
      "EditedText": "It is conceivable that other circumstances, apart from the treatment of staff, might arise."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625669",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 625669,
      "EditedText": "Would those not be dealt with under the heading of other breaches?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 625670,
      "EditedText": "We are highlighting this particular issue of the behaviour of MSPs towards staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 625681,
      "EditedText": "We can exclude them, but I do not think that we can compel them to attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 625685,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Des on the second bullet point. There is no need to refer to parliamentary party meetings in that context.Do members have any other comments about this last section?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 625687,
      "EditedText": "Those exist when a member represents the Parliament on various occasions, in meetings, and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 625689,
      "EditedText": "And those who represent the committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 625691,
      "EditedText": "I am advised that that does not appear here because of concerns over the European convention of human rights. That sanction would remove someone's livelihood."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 625697,
      "EditedText": "I am glad you made that point, in case there was any misunderstanding.I am delighted to say that that brings our deliberations on the code of conduct successfully to a close. I shall ask the clerks to prepare a revised text of the draft code, which will take into account the discussion that we have had, so that the committee's report on the draft code annexe can be finalised at our first meeting in the new year.This has been a mammoth task. We have achieved our aim: we have examined the whole code of conduct in draft form, which is now ready before the end of the year, as we suggested in our timetable it should be. I thank my colleagues on the committee, the staff, the public and the press, and I wish everybody a happy Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C625698",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 625698,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:37."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener  (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 625473,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the 16th meeting of the Standards Committee. There is one item on the agenda: consideration of the remaining sections of the draft code of conduct, on paid advocacy and the enforcement of the code. Members will be aware that the Court of Session is currently considering an appeal against the decision by Lord Johnston in respect of the petition for interdict against Lord Watson. In that context, the court is giving wide-ranging consideration to the advocacy rule, the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999, from which the rule derives, and the whole regulatory framework for members' conduct.As the matters that we will discuss today include some that are being discussed during the appeal, permission has been obtained from the Presiding Officer to allow our consideration to proceed. It may be that when the case is finally resolved—we cannot predict when that will be—we will want to reconsider the text of the draft code in the light of the court's decision. For the present, the Parliament needs a code of conduct, so we must continue our work to complete the draft.We will deal with the sections separately, and begin by considering the section on paid advocacy. As in the other sections that we have considered, which derive principally from the members' interests order, the proposed text focuses on explaining the existing legislation. We must bear it in mind that, for the purposes of the code of conduct, we are bound by that legislation. Considerable thought has been devoted to the interpretation of the legislation, and that is reflected in the wording that is before us. We might not have much scope to deviate significantly from the text.The briefing notes that members received give some additional areas to consider, but I feel that our priority is to establish the code quickly, so that members can fully understand the existing rules. We need time and experience to create additional obligations effectively, so we might want to return to some items next year.Let us consider the section on paid advocacy page by page—I assume that everybody has read through it carefully. I invite comments on page 1, which addresses the statutory requirements of the members' interests order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 625477,
      "EditedText": "We will examine that wording at our meeting next month."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 625480,
      "EditedText": "I have a view that other members perhaps do not share. I think that, as far as possible, the code should contain principles and avoid giving examples. Therefore, I am not sure whether paragraphs 3 and 4 require to be included in the code, or whether the clerks might want to advise members when a particular issue arises."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 625481,
      "EditedText": "I understand where Des McNulty is coming from on this matter. However, part of the difficulty is that paragraph 3 addresses an issue that has probably been raised already in relation to a member. I had certainly not realised that the actions described in that paragraph might have been prohibited by the order as it stood, so I think that some explanation is helpful. We have given examples elsewhere in the code. This is the most difficult section for folk to understand, so an example would be helpful—I do not know whether the example that is given is the best."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 625486,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I want to pick up on the previous paragraph as well. The last sentence of that paragraph says:\"In other words, the existence of the remuneration, although still an important factor, is less important than the member's intentions.\"That is slightly too stark. Inevitably, if we have to consider a case, it will involve some remuneration and an intended outcome. It is not for us to mind-read, but we could judge behaviour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 625490,
      "EditedText": "There might be a slight problem. It is not unknown for a councillor to perform duties that he or she is entitled to carry out on behalf of someone who approaches them. The last thing on their mind might be remuneration, but a few weeks later, someone might arrive on their doorstep to remunerate them. That happened to me in my early days as a councillor. I got someone a house—perfectly legitimately—and about two weeks later I got eight packets of cigarettes, although I do not smoke. I was bemused, and did not know what I should do with them.I asked the town clerks department, which suggested I send the cigarettes to Erskine hospital, ask for a receipt and advise the person who gave me the cigarettes why I had to do that. It would not be hurtful to their feelings. It was not intended as a bribe, but bigger issues might come into play. This part of the code might cover such situations, but it is a difficult issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625493",
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      "ID": 3481
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 625493,
      "EditedText": "No, it is not, but I heard of another case in which someone was given £1,000 in a similar situation. You cannot accept such a situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 625496,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that they should or should not. Individual members should make up their own minds and register it appropriately. We cannot prescribe what people can do. They must have a choice, but there are rules by which they must abide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 625500,
      "EditedText": "The paragraphs on bills are helpful. There was much concern among back- bench MSPs that they might run into difficulties in taking forward members' bills because they are not experts in the drafting of bills. For that reason, bills might not see the light of day. If Parliament is to be effective, back benchers must have the ability to introduce bills, and if they need assistance in doing so—provided that it is within the rules—we can give them reassurance through the code."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 625503,
      "EditedText": "I read that differently from Des. The sentence states:\"Members should beware of entering any arrangement from which it could be construed that the reason they had taken forward a Bill was because they had received remuneration\".That is why we decided that Mike Watson could take forward his bill, because we did not believe that he had acted in consideration of remuneration. He acted because he wanted to take forward the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 625511,
      "EditedText": "That is the correct interpretation of the rules."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 625512,
      "EditedText": "That means that I can go to the opera if I am invited."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 625513,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 625519,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments on page 4?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 625522,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure about the order of some of the section. For example, the definition of remuneration comes on page 4."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 625523,
      "EditedText": "The definition is sweeping."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 625525,
      "EditedText": "That is a sensible suggestion. We will do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 625526,
      "EditedText": "On a point of clarification on the second last paragraph, as a result of the Nolan rules, members can no longer be sponsored by trade unions. Although trade union sponsorship of MPs was previously much sought after, it is currently not possible for an MP or an MSP to have such sponsorship. A trade union can have a constituency development plan with my constituency Labour party, but that would not be a result of my membership of that trade union."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 625527,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that a trade union could not gift money for certain candidates' election expenses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 625530,
      "EditedText": "If trade unions give a certain percentage towards a member's election expenses, either in cash or in kind, that is a registrable interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 625533,
      "EditedText": "Would it be helpful to amend the start of the second sentence to read, \"Nor does it prevent a member from being sponsored by any organisation\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 625534,
      "EditedText": "I do not know of any other organisations that might sponsor members."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625539",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 625539,
      "EditedText": "You have to remember that we are talking about hospitality received in consideration of remuneration. We are not looking at hospitality as such."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625547",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 625547,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 625548,
      "EditedText": "Members will not be prevented from accepting hospitality. However, they should not do that if they act differently in consideration of that hospitality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 625550,
      "EditedText": "It certainly did not influence any of the Conservative Government's decisions. Interruption."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625553",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 625553,
      "EditedText": "That is correct. \"In consideration of\" is the key phrase.Do members have any comments on page 6? If not, I would like to raise a point about the first of the five bullet points on that page. Although the term \"associate\" has a legal definition in the bullet points, the first point says:\"A person is an associate of an individual if that person is the individual's husband or wife, or is a relative, or the husband or wife of a relative, of the individual or of the individual's husband or wife\".Perhaps, in future, we should include live-in partners of the same or opposite sex, not just husbands and wives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625554",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 625554,
      "EditedText": "Can we change that, convener?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 625555,
      "EditedText": "That is the advice that I have received. That is how the term \"associate\" is defined in the members' interests order. Perhaps we could include a sentence which makes it clear that the definition is lifted directly from that order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 625558,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could have another catch-all bullet point, which would include people in established relationships with others in the definition of \"associate\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 625568,
      "EditedText": "Bullet point 3 says:\"if he is that individual's brother, sister\".As we all know, women now make up a large part of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625572",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 625572,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that this would not happen but, hypothetically, a woman MSP who landed in difficulties with the section could say, \"Well, it says ‘he', and I am not a he.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 625573,
      "EditedText": "But if a woman is bankrupt, she will be subject to the same laws—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 625575,
      "EditedText": "If the wording is drawn from the Bankruptcy (Scotland) Act 1985, I take it that that is the legally established wording for anybody."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 625578,
      "EditedText": "Indeed, we should—but not this afternoon."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C625581",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
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      "ID": 169
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 625584,
      "EditedText": "I would like to suggest an amendment to the paragraph on \"How to make a complaint\". In the sentence that says that a complaint\"should be communicated to the Standards Committee\"we should add the words \"in the first instance\" after the word \"should\". The first people to know about a complaint should be the Standards Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 625585,
      "EditedText": "Is that not, in effect, what the paragraph says?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625587",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 625587,
      "EditedText": "What Karen is suggesting is included in the interim complaints procedure, but it might be worth repeating."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 625591,
      "EditedText": "I would like to clarify my reasons for raising the point, because I have taken a bit of flak for it. I am not taking an idealistic position; I am raising the point because every member of this Parliament has the right to be innocent until proven guilty. Allegations could be made by a member of the public which, even though they were unsubstantiated and unfounded, could have a damaging effect on an MSP's personal and social life if they were made to the press before being considered by this committee. Members should be protected in some way, if possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 625597,
      "EditedText": "\"Any complaint\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625599",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 625599,
      "EditedText": "So \"Any complaint\" rather than \"A complaint\"? Is everybody happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
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  },
  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 625600,
      "EditedText": "We move on to page 2. I should point out to members that, once we agree this next year, it will replace the interim complaints procedure that we have already published."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625602",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "We can take that on board."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625603",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
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      "EditedText": "At present, when a committee wants to appoint an adviser, it has to make a case to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. The Standards Committee should say to the corporate body that we want to be entitled to go ahead with appointing an adviser, if we believe that to be necessary, without asking for the corporate body's permission."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625608",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 625608,
      "EditedText": "That ties in with a discussion we had at our previous meeting. If a convener is unsuccessful in dealing with a member, ultimately that member has the right to refer the complaint to the Standards Committee."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625611",
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      "EditedText": "Standing orders specify that it should be a written report."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625612",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "ContributionID": 625612,
      "EditedText": "If a sanction is to be taken against a member, will that always follow a debate in the chamber?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625613",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 625613,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is my understanding of standing orders. There would be a report to Parliament and, if necessary, a motion would be lodged on the recommendation of this committee."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625616",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 625616,
      "EditedText": "There are three categories of potential case: a member's treatment of a member of the Parliament staff; a member's treatment of somebody whom they are employing; and a member's treatment of an employee of another member. However, the draft identifies only two categories."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625617",
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      "EditedText": "I invite the clerk to give advice on that."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625624",
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      "ContributionID": 625624,
      "EditedText": "I agree. This has been gone through with a fine-toothed comb by the lawyers, has it not?"
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  {
    "ID": "C625625",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 625631,
      "EditedText": "If a member were found negligent by an industrial tribunal with respect to their own staff, that would be conduct unbecoming a member of this Parliament, would it not?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625634",
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      "EditedText": "Where will someone who is employed by an MSP stand? If they do not get satisfaction from their employer, does Parliament have a wider responsibility as the overall employer?"
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      "EditedText": "That is what I thought we might do."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625645",
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      "EditedText": "Page 5?"
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 625650,
      "EditedText": "I want to be clear on the issue of conduct at a meeting of the Parliament or a committee. We had a discussion on that earlier, under the broad issue of the code of conduct. I take it from what is said at the bottom of page 6 and the top of page 7 that if a member misbehaves in a committee or in the chamber, the enforcement procedures against that member are ultimately nothing to do with the Standards Committee, but that the Presiding Officer has power and responsibility in those circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 625651,
      "EditedText": "Indeed, or the convener of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 625653,
      "EditedText": "Not on that issue. I am advised that our remit permits us to examine any conduct at all in the context of parliamentary duties; our remit is all-encompassing. In Parliament or a committee meeting, the Presiding Officer or the convener has the authority to exclude members for the rest of the meeting. That would have to be effective immediately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 625655,
      "EditedText": "I am told that that procedure is in our standing orders. That is, however, a good question, as there seems to be some inconsistency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 625657,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, the Parliamentary Bureau, according to standing orders, is the only authority that has the power of exclusion in those circumstances. However, that does not prevent our taking further action if the matter is referred to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 625663,
      "EditedText": "I was concerned that the paragraph is written in such a way as to exclude the Standards Committee from the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 625666,
      "EditedText": "Why is the treatment of staff included in that context?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 625667,
      "EditedText": "If a member has acted towards a member of parliamentary staff in a way that breaches the code of conduct, their rights and privileges should be withdrawn. That should be automatic, if a member has been discourteous, cheeky or offensive, especially if they have been sexually harassing a member of staff, whose complaint is upheld."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 625671,
      "EditedText": "It is important that this Parliament is seen to be a team, and that every member of staff—MSPs or any others—are treated equally and receive the same respect. It is important that we highlight that in the code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 625672,
      "EditedText": "We address breaches of the members' interests order, criminal offences, conduct at a meeting of Parliament or a committee meeting, breaches of the allowances code, then the treatment of staff. Is that the full range of areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 625673,
      "EditedText": "It is not. The next section, on the next page, deals with other breaches. We will move on to other breaches now, on pages 8 and 9, which is the final part of the code.I would like to raise a point about the first bullet point:\"Exclusion of a member from proceedings of the Parliament generally or specifically, for example, proceedings at particular meetings.\"We should include committee meetings, as they are not mentioned. We should insert \"committees\", as not only meetings of the Parliament are involved. Is everybody happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 625674,
      "EditedText": "Would it not be better to leave that open? As it stands, surely that point covers everything and anything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 625676,
      "EditedText": "We might insert, \"committee or any other relevant meetings\", or something like that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 625683,
      "EditedText": "That would be covered by the first bullet point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 625686,
      "EditedText": "What are\"representational, ceremonial and related privileges\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 625690,
      "EditedText": "There is an issue concerning allowances in that context. Should that sanction be included here, or has it been covered previously?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 625692,
      "EditedText": "It would remove a member of staff's livelihood rather than a member's livelihood. Members' allowances are not their livelihoods."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 625694,
      "EditedText": "Yes, so that sanction would affect another person's livelihood. I would not like anyone to think that allowances are part of members' livelihoods."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 625695,
      "EditedText": "I see what you mean. I should make that absolutely clear. The allowances are used to employ staff, which affects the livelihoods of those people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3481
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18754,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18754,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 625696,
      "EditedText": "That is not how the Daily Record saw the matter a few months ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1721209+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 579987,
      "EditedText": "It is important to bear it in mind that Scotland's beef farmers, as well as the parties, would like a statement to Parliament. They will take a keen interest in today's developments, and the least that the Parliament can do is have its Minister for Rural Affairs make a statement on European negotiations on behalf of the UK over the beef ban."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C580023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 580023,
      "EditedText": "He never said that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C580025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 580025,
      "EditedText": "I would like to clarify this, convener. To my recollection the minister—I will stand corrected if anyone wishes to intervene—said that it would be very difficult to get state aid distributed by permission of the European Commission. We do not know whether that is possible. All we know is that it might be very difficult and that, to me, suggests that it is not impossible. The statement is vague, however. What the industry wants is a black-and-white statement on whether there is, under European rules, a legal possibility of state aid being offered to assist the industry in covering the BSE tax."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C580044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 580044,
      "EditedText": "The committee would be able to keep those items on its agenda and give views on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C580020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 580020,
      "EditedText": "When we met the pig farmers, they concentrated on state aid. At the pig breakfast last week, Mr Finnie said that he had spoken with EU representatives and had tried to obtain permission for distribution of state aid. He said that if he drew a blank on that he would not be able to get aid for the farmers. We either believe what he says or we do not, but I am inclined to believe him, because he would not have said such a thing if he had not gone to Europe to make inquiries.There are other things that the committee or the Executive could do to help farmers. One option would be to start a campaign on marketing. The farmers said that they did not approve of the labelling proposal because it would take too long to implement. I feel strongly that the committee could run a campaign on marketing: as members of the committee could go around supermarkets to address the issue.Another problem which was highlighted and which we should examine is the issue of meat and bone meal, which, as I understand it, can be sold abroad. Some of the pig farmers suggested highlighting that, and that that did not represent an added cost.I do not see how we can get blood out of a stone: if the Minister for Rural Affairs says that he has gone to the EU and cannot get the money—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C580022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 580022,
      "EditedText": "I am certain that he said that at the pig breakfast last week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C580024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 580024,
      "EditedText": "He used words to that effect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C580064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 580064,
      "EditedText": "Can we have a short interim report on anything that has come up on housing, bearing in mind that we will discuss that in the new year? Wendy Alexander said in her statement that Parliament would debate housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579947",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17659,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 579947,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:07"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17659,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 579952,
      "EditedText": "So was Alex Fergusson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17660,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17660,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 579959,
      "EditedText": "I have a note from the clerk that says that the issue of ISA was originally put on the agenda by Richard Lochhead. The committee has requested a detailed written brief from SERAD. Production of that brief has been delayed, pending a ministerial announcement on infectious salmon anaemia, which will take place tomorrow at 12 noon. A full briefing paper is expected to be available for the first committee meeting of the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 579962,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 579963,
      "EditedText": "What would the revised wording be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579967",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 579967,
      "EditedText": "You have hit the nail on the head. When we raised this issue initially, we perceived that we had no structure to deal with problems. We hope that the inquiry will create a structure on which we can hang the work that we have done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7825079+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 579968,
      "EditedText": "It also impinges on our consideration of rural poverty, on which we can do further work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7825079+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 579970,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on the remit or the rest of the paper?If there are none, I will ask Richard to read out the version of the remit that he has written down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7825079+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 579972,
      "EditedText": "Lewis discussed the word \"increase\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7825079+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 579975,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that that should be the remit of the inquiry?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7825079+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 579977,
      "EditedText": "As I said earlier, this might be a suitable opportunity to raise today's crisis. As members probably know, the French Prime Minister said today that, during earlier negotiations with the UK Government, he had suggested that France could exempt from its ban British cattle that were exclusively grass-fed, such as Scottish Angus beef—that was how he described it. However, the UK Government rejected that offer. He suggested that a partial lifting of the ban along those lines might still be possible. This is an important matter, about which the Parliament needs to know more, since he was offering an exemption for most Scottish beef. Does the committee agree that the convener should write to the Minister for Rural Affairs to ask him to make a statement about the matter to Parliament at the earliest opportunity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7981321+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 579979,
      "EditedText": "We are all aware of the difficulties of persuading the French Government to adhere to European law on this matter. Its refusal to implement the lifting of the ban on British beef will concern every member of this committee. We must treat the explanations that the French Prime Minister has now given for his failure to lift the ban with a healthy dose of scepticism. The French negotiating position has failed to produce a result. While the offer may be worth investigating, we must start from the basis that it amounted to a public statement from a Government that has failed consistently to adhere to the rulings of the European Commission on British beef exports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7981321+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 579985,
      "EditedText": "The danger of Alasdair's proposal is that it would give credence to what is simply another episode in French diplomacy. The greatest trick in French diplomacy, as we know, is divide and rule; that is precisely what is going on here. If we walk into this trap with our eyes open, we cannot complain if the French run rings around us internationally. It would be entirely appropriate for the convener to write to the minister and ask for clarification of the story. To write to him seeking an emergency statement, on the basis that we believe what Lionel Jospin says just because he says it, is the wrong way for the committee to go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7981321+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 579988,
      "EditedText": "It is not a matter of whether we believe Monsieur Jospin, although we should be careful before we call Prime Ministers of other EU states potential liars. We should get a statement on precisely what happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 579989,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about a statement of fact. Regardless of the position in which the minister finds himself, there is a good deal of confusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 579992,
      "EditedText": "We must remember that it is by no means out of the question that, were Ross Finnie to make such a statement, he might receive a vote of confidence from the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 579993,
      "EditedText": "I am still not clear what members expect to achieve by having this statement. I am not accusing anybody of telling lies, but the French Government is saying that this was its position during the negotiations. We are supposed to respond to that by asking whether that is true and throwing up our hands in horror because nobody told us the details of the negotiation. The fact of the matter is that the recommendation was made to the European Commission, and accepted by it, that British beef is safe.I do not think that we should send out any signals that suggest that some British beef is safe and some is not. That is what Jospin's statement is trying to imply. We must be careful not to fall into the trap of echoing that false division between safe and unsafe beef in Britain.It is appropriate for the convener to ask the minister about his response to the negotiations. If we demand an emergency statement, it implies that Jospin's account is accurate and that the British Government should have leapt up to receive his offer with great joy. The committee should not send out such a signal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 579995,
      "EditedText": "I am not uncomfortable about seeking clarification of the facts. However, I agree with Lewis Macdonald that we should put out no messages other than \"British beef is safe\". We owe it to our farmers to put out that message. There is no such thing as a partial breaking of the law—the French are breaking the law in not allowing British beef into France. We should send out a strong message about the quality and value of British and Scottish products. We must be seen to be supporting our industry. To allow the French to manipulate us by implying that certain parts of our markets are safe and might be tolerated, whereas others are not, will not help. Even if the French let in small amounts of British beef, how many people will buy it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 579997,
      "EditedText": "I will stick with my original proposal, convener. On behalf of the committee, you should write to the minister, asking him to make a statement to Parliament on the matter. It is up to members whether they support that proposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 579998,
      "EditedText": "Since Alasdair has dropped the word \"emergency\", I am happy with that—it is appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579999",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 579999,
      "EditedText": "Would you like to review the word \"emergency\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C580003",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 580003,
      "EditedText": "Alasdair Morgan proposed that the committee should ask the convener to request that the minister make a statement to the Parliament on the recent comments by the French Prime Minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 580007,
      "EditedText": "If you are aware of the proposal and of the nature of the division, I am happy for you to take part."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 580009,
      "EditedText": "Yes.I will read out members' names and take a vote by roll call."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 580012,
      "EditedText": "The proposal is supported. With my tongue firmly in my cheek, I must ask members if there are any other issues to be raised under the heading of \"Proposed Structure for Agriculture Inquiry\". If there are no further issues to be raised under that heading, we will move to the next item on the agenda.Item 3 is a draft report on the issues surrounding the Highlands and Islands agricultural business improvement scheme. We have agreed to take this item in private. Does that meet with the committee's approval?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C580013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 580013,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 580017,
      "EditedText": "I understand and agree with many of the points that you have made, Lewis, but I believe that this committee has to be in direct contact with interested groups from rural Scotland and that we have become an alternative means of contacting the Parliament for those groups. We should encourage that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 580030,
      "EditedText": "It appears that one of our number has rehashed the item and had it press-released in his own name on the front page today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 580037,
      "EditedText": "I echo that sentiment. A lot of pig processing takes place in the Aberdeen area, so I am aware of the situation. Scheduling a discussion for four or five weeks from now would not be particularly useful. If you, as convener, were to write to the minister to ask him a direct question, you should get a reply that could be used in whatever way is most helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 580039,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 580048,
      "EditedText": "We will put the item on the agenda and include a report that will be put together from the notes available. I will write in the name of the committee to the minister, asking for clarification on whether support for the pig industry would constitute illegal state aid. Are there any other comments on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C580051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 580051,
      "EditedText": "I am not going to make one of my cracks about the grass-fed beef again. The hunting bill is down for discussion by this committee—is it certain that that bill will come to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 580056,
      "EditedText": "I agree—it would be a good time for us to consider not only what will happen in 2002 with the renegotiation of common fisheries policy, but the wider question of this country's fisheries strategy in the next century."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 580061,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is because the headings on the left-hand side of the page are the original headings for which we voted. We agreed to include housing in rural areas in the top item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 580065,
      "EditedText": "Preparations to appoint an adviser for this report are at a fairly advanced stage. When an adviser is in place, we can easily push housing up his agenda to fit in with our time scale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C580070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 580070,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 580071,
      "EditedText": "A number of other issues that were not among our priorities but have been covered in some way are listed in the documents.We need to consider items in the list on the left, which members might feel have assumed a higher priority in the intervening period. Members might want to consider one or two items that have crept into the work that we have done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C580079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 580079,
      "EditedText": "That depends on whether we get it in time. We expect to get the strategy in January, but I do not know whether we will get it in time for that meeting; it might have to wait until the next one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 579982,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned about how to identify grass-fed beef. We must be careful not to fall into a trap that would put our farmers through even more hoops, given their complaints about the problems with current BSE legislation. I am not averse to finding out more about the matter, but the industry has a lot to cope with already. Farmers would find it impossible if their cattle had to have yet another passport in order to prove that they have been grass fed. The French Prime Minister's statement may be just a political stance and it may not be possible to force his proposal through in any useful way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 579996,
      "EditedText": "Scotland has its own rural affairs minister, who is accountable to the Parliament and to Scotland's agricultural industry. As none of us knows the full facts, surely it is in order for the Minister for Rural Affairs to make a statement to Parliament on the matter. It is as black and white as that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C580028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 580028,
      "EditedText": "I happen to know that 78 per cent of The Press and Journal's readers read the farming pages."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C580042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 580042,
      "EditedText": "The alternative would be to conduct an investigation, and there might not be time in our agenda for that. I suggest that the clerks compile a list of the main issues, such as labelling, that are on parliamentary records, or were discussed in formal or informal briefings. If they can collate them, we can consider those matters at our next meeting. That should not take too long."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 579990,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned about going down that road, as it would appear to give credence to the statement that one sector of our beef industry is safer than the other. We would have to live with the consequences of that. It would play havoc with our overseas market in the long run."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C580060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 580060,
      "EditedText": "Is housing in rural areas included in the inquiry into employment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C580066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 580066,
      "EditedText": "It might be useful to have a report that will inform the debate on housing in rural areas, so that that subject does not get lost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C580068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 580068,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure. As far as I can remember, Wendy Alexander said that it would be in the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17660,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 17660,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 579953,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have given members more than adequate time to arrive, so we will move to the first item on our agenda, which is the European document on control of fish diseases. It proposes amendments to an existing directive that deals with measures to control infectious salmon anaemia. The amendments have been initiated by the UK Government and are designed to provide more flexibility than the current arrangements. Specifically, the proposals would remove the need for immediate withdrawal of fish from affected farms—that means destruction of old fish on those farms—and allow the use of vaccines under plans that are to be drawn up by member states.The Scottish Executive rural affairs department advises that the industry has been advocating greater flexibility on those rules for some time and that the proposal has industry support, although the industry remains understandably anxious about how the arrangement will work in practice. According to SERAD, the arrangements will be determined on a case-by-case basis. The European Committee has requested that we forward any views to it by 17 December.Does anybody have views to express on this issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17660,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 17660,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 579956,
      "EditedText": "If there are no further comments, I will put the question. Does the committee support the proposals?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 579960,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 relates to the proposed structure of our planned inquiry into agriculture. A paper was circulated inviting comments, and I do not think that any were forthcoming. The paper attempts to set out the background to, and a structured programme for, an investigation into the current problems of the farming industry. It also includes a proposed remit for the inquiry, which reads:\"To assess the contribution of Scottish agriculture and public policy in support of Scottish agriculture to the full range of rural interests and to seek opportunities for policy changes that might increase this contribution.\"Does anybody have any comments on the paper or the proposed remit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 579964,
      "EditedText": "What I have in front of me is, \"To assess the contribution of Scottish agriculture and public policy in support of Scottish agriculture to the full range of rural interests and to support the development of strategy and policies that contribute to the sustainable development of rural Scotland.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 579969,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we do not just bounce from crisis to crisis. I think that we have been doing a bit of that. We need to think about providing a framework to deal with agricultural and rural problems.The original wording sought to make policy changes, but the Parliament does not have policies on agricultural and rural issues yet. We have inherited some from the UK and from Europe, but we do not have our own. We should think about policy development and seize the opportunity to do things differently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7825079+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 579971,
      "EditedText": "What we have now is, \"To assess the contribution of Scottish agriculture and public policy in support of Scottish agriculture to the full range of rural interests and to support the development of strategy and policy changes which might increase its contribution to sustainable development.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7825079+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 579973,
      "EditedText": "The wording that I suggested was \"strategies and policies that contribute to sustainable development.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7825079+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 579974,
      "EditedText": "In that case, we have, \"To assess the contribution of Scottish agriculture and public policy in support of Scottish agriculture to the full range of rural interests and to support the development of strategy and policies which contribute to sustainable development.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7825079+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 579976,
      "EditedText": "We will take this opportunity to develop a paper proposing how that should be set out. I hope that that will be available for the committee at the earliest opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7981321+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 579983,
      "EditedText": "I have no desire to let the French off the hook. Whatever the French Prime Minister may say, the French attitude has been appalling. I am sure that all members who represent rural constituencies have been appalled by the expedient behaviour of the French. I do not want the committee to be seen to give any comfort to the French Prime Minister.We may decide that we want a little more information about what was said, but the situation also involves a point of procedure. It would be more appropriate for the convener to write to the minister than for all of us, as individual members, to write to ministers and invite them to take action on behalf of the Rural Affairs Committee. If we act as a committee, it should be done through the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7981321+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 579984,
      "EditedText": "That is precisely what I was suggesting—that the convener write, with the committee's sanction, to seek a statement, not to the committee, but to the Parliament. Regardless of the interpretation one puts on Monsieur Jospin's motives for making his statement, and regardless of whether one thinks that the proposition was practical, it was made. If reports are to be believed, the minister did not know about it, and members certainly did not know about it. We deserve a bit more openness than we seem to be getting. A statement would be a good idea, if only to clear the air. We should apply sufficient pressure to ensure that we get one, given that the recess is looming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7981321+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 579986,
      "EditedText": "I find that a compelling argument, but I am still not averse to the idea of asking for a straightforward statement of what has happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 579991,
      "EditedText": "This is not about getting into that argument. It is about getting a statement from the minister about what happened at the negotiations and whether he intends to take any further action. Asking for a statement is not equivalent to our making a judgment on the issue at stake. If it were, that could serve as a justification for keeping everything secret."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 579994,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, the only information that we have about what is alleged to have happened comes from the French Prime Minister—we are trying to establish our response to that. To assess the situation and establish whether the correct action was taken, we also need to establish the minister's response. Until we know the official response from the minister, the situation remains unclear. It would not be responsible of this committee to leave the situation with that degree of uncertainty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 580000,
      "EditedText": "It is not an emergency—it is a claim by the French Prime Minister. However, it would be appropriate to ask for a statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C580001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 580001,
      "EditedText": "I am not sufficiently familiar with standing orders to know the difference between an emergency statement and an ordinary one. The point is that I would like the minister to make a statement before the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 580002,
      "EditedText": "We have a proposal on which it would be appropriate for us to vote. Richard will read out the proposal as he has noted it and perhaps Alasdair can clarify that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C580006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 580006,
      "EditedText": "If you would prefer me not to vote, I will respect that. However, having heard the question, I am prepared to make a decision on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C580008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 580008,
      "EditedText": "Can I just clarify that the proposal was that the minister be asked to make a statement on the French Prime Minister's remarks?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 580011,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee agree to the proposal?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 580015,
      "EditedText": "Item 4 on the agenda is future business. If Richard Lochhead wants to raise anything, he can put his hand up now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C580031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 580031,
      "EditedText": "I agree with a great deal of what Lewis Macdonald has just said, but the other day the pig farming lobby made it very obvious to us that they do not have much time left. I have no reason—none of us has—to disbelieve that. The pig industry in Scotland will not survive for long—it is as simple as that. I am not convinced—on this I agree with Richard Lochhead—that the minister said that he was turned down when seeking assistance for the pig industry from Europe.One of the circulars that came to us was from the Ulster Farmers Union and it suggested that Franz Fischler would by no means be unsympathetic towards examining the matter. We must ascertain more certainly whether—as I put in my question to him yesterday—the minister has actually tried to get some aid out of Europe in this case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 580032,
      "EditedText": "We are talking not about getting aid from Europe in this case, but about getting permission from Europe to provide aid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C580033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 580033,
      "EditedText": "I stand corrected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 580036,
      "EditedText": "We must keep in mind that the pig industry is in an incredibly precarious situation. Lewis Macdonald suggested that, if the straight answer to the straight question is negative, that could damage the industry. Having spoken to a number of farmers, including one in Easter Ross with whom I spent a lot of time yesterday, I disagree. Those farmers' view is that if nothing is to be done for the pig industry, those who are involved in it will need to initiate a controlled collapse now, because there is no point continuing under current market conditions. The farmers need to minimise their losses. A straight answer to a straight question, whatever the answer happens to be, will therefore give them a direction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 580043,
      "EditedText": "What would be the committee's purpose in considering those issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C580045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 580045,
      "EditedText": "We might wish to consider what other action we could take to support the industry further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 580046,
      "EditedText": "At this stage, the issue might be far enough up the political agenda to be driven by the whole parliamentary structure. I would be glad to have this on the agenda at the next committee meeting, so that we can review progress. Tracey Hawe has rough notes on the general views that have been expressed—those notes can be used to put together a report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 580058,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the proposal as a structure within which the committee can work. I have experience from the Audit Committee of dealing with parts of a bill over the past couple of months and I am aware that it is very difficult to do that alongside another half a dozen agenda items. The fact that we might soon have bills before us re-emphasises the point that structure is required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 580072,
      "EditedText": "Can we have some guidance on whether there are items that are listed for discussion that will not be covered by one of the three inquiries or by one of the bills that are detailed on the sheet? Some are obviously not directly involved, but might be covered in part."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 580074,
      "EditedText": "Would that meeting be with both ministers from the department?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 580075,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We also need to have a slightly more formal session to plan forthcoming business so that we can establish a structure. We should, perhaps, leave that until after we have spoken to the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C580078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 580078,
      "EditedText": "Is it confirmed that we will consider the forest strategy on 18 January?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 580080,
      "EditedText": "As members have no further points to raise, I close this meeting and thank members for their assistance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17659,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Alex Johnstone): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 579948,
      "EditedText": "We are a few bodies short. We have received apologies from Mike Rumbles and I see that we are also missing Alex Fergusson, although I cannot account for that. Who else is missing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579949",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17659,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 579949,
      "EditedText": "John Farquhar Munro."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 579950,
      "EditedText": "Has anybody heard from John Farquhar Munro?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 579951,
      "EditedText": "He was in the building this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17660,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17660,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 579954,
      "EditedText": "The proposals are very welcome and should go forward with our full support. They will assist the industry to deal with the crisis that it is facing and help to make it clear that this is a different problem from those that are faced by parts of the agriculture sector. That is very important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17660,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 579957,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee want to forward any further comments on the matter to the European Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17660,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17660,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 579958,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 579961,
      "EditedText": "I thought that the paper was very useful and helped us to progress by laying out the steps that we would want to follow. However, I would like the committee to consider some changes to the proposed remit, because I have two concerns about the way in which it is phrased. First, I would prefer the committee to concentrate on the overall strategy for dealing with agriculture, rather than just policy. The phrase that I had in mind to accommodate that point was, \"To support the development of strategy and policies\".My other slight concern related to the last three words, \"increase this contribution\". I am not sure that our objective is necessarily to increase agriculture's contribution to the rural economy and society; it is to make it more effective and productive, whatever that might mean. Instead we might refer to \"strategy and policies that contribute to the sustainable development of rural Scotland\". That would allow for an increase in some sectors and a reduction in others. I do not need to tell you, convener, that agriculture is an ever-changing marketplace and that it is unwise to assume a constant increase in any sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 579965,
      "EditedText": "We will make a decision and circulate a revised version of the paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7825079+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 579966,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we have a strategic overview. However, we must ensure that we do not spend all our time considering things that have gone wrong. We should think about ways to improve the situation and take a holistic view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7825079+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 579978,
      "EditedText": "I am interested to hear other members' views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7981321+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 579980,
      "EditedText": "From a straightforward political point of view, my position is close to yours, Lewis. However, I am not averse to the idea that we ask for more details about what has happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7981321+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C580004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 580004,
      "EditedText": "I would like to insert the words \"before the recess\" at the end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17661,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 580005,
      "EditedText": "Okay.Alex Fergusson has just arrived."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 580010,
      "EditedText": "Convener, I know that you are keen to have a division, but if it would help matters, I should say that I do not intend to vote against the proposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C580014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 580014,
      "EditedText": "On resuming in public—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 580016,
      "EditedText": "I want to repeat the comments that I made during the private session. During the first few months of the committee I have become concerned that the committee is in danger of becoming a rural affairs fire brigade—called out to deal with every crisis in related industries on a week-by-week basis and with inadequate notice. I would like the convener and the clerk to consider how the agenda of the committee might be controlled to prevent accumulation of items at short notice. That accumulation makes it difficult for the committee to follow a structured approach to its major inquiries into employment in the rural communities, agriculture and its contribution to rural development and the other areas of fisheries and forestry that we intend to examine.Agriculture and fisheries are industries in which important issues can arise at short notice. If the committee sees itself as a sounding board for lobbying on those issues and consequently raises financial demands every time it is approached by representatives of a sector of agriculture that is in crisis, it will be difficult to take the strategic approach that should be taken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5012386+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C580018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 580018,
      "EditedText": "The public is confused about the role of the committee and the role of the Executive. People seem to think that the committee can solve their problems and that we have a cheque book. Some of us were saying, in private conversation, that if we had had a cheque book at last week's meeting with the pig farmers, we would have been signing cheques to alleviate the problems. However that is not our role—it is the Executive's. Our role is—as you said, convener—to develop policies, to conduct inquiries and to act as a point of contact between rural Scotland and the Parliament. We should try not to exacerbate the confusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 580026,
      "EditedText": "The minister expressed a view that state aid would not be considered and that the industry would not be eligible. The industry is looking for assistance. Whether it would be helpful at this point to seek a clear statement is a tactical matter. If the black-and-white statement says that it is a question of state aid and that nothing can be done, that is clearly not helpful.I think that this committee can and should highlight the issue. It would be good if any member could propose something that would help us to highlight it. The great majority of consumers are unaware of the difference between animal welfare standards and pig production standards in this country and the standards in our main competitor countries. Awareness of that would make an immediate and significant difference to the market, given the sensitivity of supermarket retailers to public opinion on such matters. I would be interested if members had any proposals to highlight the differences, as that may well be the key to the market and to the survival of the pig industry in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 580034,
      "EditedText": "Although I am confident that Ross Finnie's statement at the pig breakfast was accurate, his words were carefully chosen. I, too, have doubts about whether an approach was made for a judgment on whether assistance to the pig industry would constitute illegal state aid. I am therefore sympathetic to the idea that we need a straight answer to a straight question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C580035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 580035,
      "EditedText": "Because I had problems getting to Edinburgh from far afield for quarter to 8 in the morning, I do not know what Ross Finnie said at the pig breakfast and cannot pass comment on what was said. It might be that there is some confusion and that a more specific question would elicit a clearer response from the minister.As I said before, the committees are not just about bidding for money. We should also consider how else the industry could be supported in the longer term. Although aid might stave off some of the immediate problems, the pig industry, like many other agricultural sectors, needs a strategy for survival in the future. As I have said in Parliament, we must consider aggressive promotion of the animal welfare angle. The public—as Lewis says—are not aware of the conditions in which animals are raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 580038,
      "EditedText": "Should that letter be written in the name of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C580041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 580041,
      "EditedText": "Many such concerns were mentioned at the informal briefing last week and were not minuted. The clerks were present, but in an informal capacity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C580047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 580047,
      "EditedText": "Rural affairs fire brigade or not, I would welcome that on the agenda for our next meeting—I will bring my hard hat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 580049,
      "EditedText": "Could you indicate in that letter to the minister that we are considering this as a matter of urgency and that we seek an urgent response?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 580050,
      "EditedText": "Yes.Members have before them a note about the progress that has been made on a number of issues. It includes a graph that Richard Davies has put together. It is, effectively, a guess at the potential timing of business that the committee might need to address. We began with a statement about what we have done, but this gives us an indication of what we might find ourselves doing. Are there any further comments about what we have done and what issues we should address?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C580052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 580052,
      "EditedText": "There is a question mark about that—it is up to the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 580053,
      "EditedText": "Even if we were not the lead committee, it is extremely likely that we would like to become involved in scrutiny of that bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C580054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 580054,
      "EditedText": "It would be appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 580055,
      "EditedText": "The issues that appear on the graph with a question mark are conjectural. However, the graph mentions the inquiry into the impact of employment change, which is at a more advanced stage, and the agriculture inquiry, which we have begun to discuss. Richard Davies has said that there might be room for another inquiry at the end of the year. He suggested that that would be an ideal time to consider the problems associated with the deep-sea fishing industry, given that that is the lead-up to the negotiations that usually take place in December. It also falls roughly two years before the complete renegotiation of the common fisheries policy. We might wish, therefore, to use that opportunity to consider in greater depth what is going on in the fishing industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 580057,
      "EditedText": "That almost mirrors our experience with agriculture; we began with a few fire-fighting operations but we need now to consider something more structured. I know that we have put the cart before the horse on a number of occasions, but we are getting there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 580059,
      "EditedText": "I know that, at times, the length of our agendas is shocking, but it is in the nature of the committee's work that there will be a number of small agenda items, such as statutory instruments or other papers that we need to consider. Our experience at the previous full meeting—at which we discussed one subject for two hours and then got through the rest of the agenda in about thirty minutes—indicated that such small agenda items need not take much time, provided that we have all read the papers and know what we are talking about. It is a matter of approving papers as they pass by us.Are there any comments on the progress report, which is, in effect, a list of subjects and what we have done about them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C580062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 580062,
      "EditedText": "Am I right in thinking that the whole issue was to be tied into an examination of rural poverty? It is important to say that the emphasis will be on rural poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C580063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 580063,
      "EditedText": "Although employment has taken precedence, the issue of rural poverty is still covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 580067,
      "EditedText": "When is the subject likely to come up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 580069,
      "EditedText": "We can certainly prioritise issues. We hope that the longer investigation will be able to produce interim reports at various stages so that we can keep the public—as well as other members of the Parliament—fully informed about progress, and that it will produce a final rounding-up report.Are there any other issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 580073,
      "EditedText": "This list contains all the subjects that were thrown up in the committee's initial discussion. Many of those will be covered in part by action that we are likely to take, and some will be covered in full. That is a good indication that the original polling threw up the issues that are likely to be the committee's priorities. It remains my priority that the committee should never miss an opportunity to include something that is completely different, if that is appropriate. Part of the purpose of today's discussion is to ensure that we have a rough idea of how and on which issues we want to proceed, from the huge range of issues that we must cover.The other suggestion that has been made by Richard Davies is that it might be appropriate for us to have a round-up meeting at some point. Members will remember that we had an informal briefing, which the minister attended. We all sat round the table and had a good chat about each other's aims and objectives and where we wanted to go. That was an important meeting, which helped to build a successful relationship between the committee and the minister. In spite of the fact that, occasionally, we may not have seen eye to eye, that relationship continues in good heart.Does the committee think that it would be appropriate to organise a similar meeting in the new year—when we can arrange a suitable time—so that we can sit round the table again to take stock of what we have done and on which issues we want to proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C580076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
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      "ID": 17662,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 580076,
      "EditedText": "Would it be possible for you to produce a draft proposal that ties matters to dates fairly specifically, and which gives us a fairly clear indication of what will be dealt with and when?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C580077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 580077,
      "EditedText": "Richard Davies, Richard Walsh and I visited London to meet the chairman of the Agriculture Committee at Westminster. We also sat in on one of that committee's meetings. Our impression was that that committee has a more relaxed attitude towards business than we do and that, as a result, it is able to put together formal inquiries that last for a considerable length of time.How much help that meeting was is questionable, as that committee does not have the same range of responsibilities as we do. However, there was much to be learned from the way in which that committee structured its inquiries, which might guide us in scheduling our inquiries. Richard Davies has already put that to good use, in the way in which he has distributed the interests of our major inquiries, which are listed at the top of his graph.It might be difficult to schedule business, as we do not know when certain bills will arrive for the committee's scrutiny. In the meantime, however, we should consider our main inquiries and our day-to-day business, rather than smaller agenda items. We should also try to ensure that we do not clutter the agendas too much, so that we will have the flexibility to fit in bills when necessary. I take it that the committee agrees that we should arrange a meeting with the ministers—an informal briefing session, such as we had before—and then try to agree a more formal structure for the way in which we will proceed in the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C580081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 580081,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:30."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:35.5168593+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C580027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 580027,
      "EditedText": "The Press and Journal carried a good article at the weekend—unfortunately it was in the farming pages. Unless one is a farmer, and already knows the information, one will tend not to read the farming pages. We really want such articles to be on the front pages."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C580029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 580029,
      "EditedText": "I disagree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17660,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 17660,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 579955,
      "EditedText": "I welcome what can only be described as belated proposals, given that many people in the industry are wondering why they have taken so long to appear and why, for example, the Norwegian approach was not adopted in the first place. However, better late than never. The committee should support the proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agriculture Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 17661,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 17661,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 579981,
      "EditedText": "Today's revelations put a new light on the French Government's refusal to lift the ban on British beef, as it may no longer ban the Scottish product. The enormous ramifications for the beef industry in Scotland justify an emergency statement from the Minister for Rural Affairs. It would appear that he was unaware of the negotiations that were going on in the background; the Parliament deserves to hear more about the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C580019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 580019,
      "EditedText": "At the close of the private session, I mentioned that I wanted to talk about the pig industry. I feel as if I have been ambushed, but I will recover from that.We have successfully conducted short investigations into issues that have arisen during the past six or seven months, while keeping an eye on strategic issues. That is how we will continue to operate.Last week, we had an informal meeting with around 30 representatives of the pig industry. People's livelihoods are at risk and there is a danger that a key sector of the agriculture industry will disappear. One of the problems that the industry faces is the lack of clarity surrounding state aid, particularly in relation to the so-called BSE tax. There is an urgent need for a statement either from the Scottish Executive or the European Commission on the matter, because the industry and the Executive appear to have different views. The committee should consider whether state aid should be made available by permission of the European Commission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C580021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 580021,
      "EditedText": "Did the minister say that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C580040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3228
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17662,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ID": 17662,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 580040,
      "EditedText": "I concur with that. It is exactly what I was going to propose. However, we should also consider the other issues that face the industry. Those issues are well documented and have been aired in Parliament. Most members of the committee, and the clerks, were at last week's informal briefing from the pig industry and at previous briefings. Would it be useful for the clerks to produce a list of recommendations, based on the other concerns that were mentioned, that we could consider at our first meeting after the new year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 520869,
      "EditedText": "The Borders railway line could be the kind of issue that would attract hundreds if not thousands of petitioners. Taking the committee to the Borders would be a good example of the committee's democratic progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14210,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ID": 14210,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 520880,
      "EditedText": "That is excellent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 520742,
      "EditedText": "As my name has been used—though not in vain—I should say that the only problem that I have with this going to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee is that, in that committee, we are so up to our necks in work that we may not be able to give a quick response. The situation may improve if we move to having two meetings a week.You said, convener, that the Lord Advocate was actively considering making a reference. I suggest that, to expedite this matter, we ask the Minister for Justice to clarify what that means and how long it will take. If the Lord Advocate decides not to make a reference, the matter is no longer sub judice.We should also ask the Minister for Justice to respond directly to this committee, so that we can decide whether to send the petitions, with the minister's response, to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. By then, I hope that we will be having two meetings a week, which would enable us to put the matter on our agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 520747,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that I have said something with which you can live, Phil."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 520760,
      "EditedText": "Can we place a time limit on a response?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 520763,
      "EditedText": "I am beginning to think that I am becoming a pen pal of the Lord Advocate. I suggest that we write to the Lord Advocate, asking him whether he intends to initiate a prosecution against Occidental and, if not, why not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 520768,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I can rephrase that. We should ask the Lord Advocate to consider the terms of the petition. If he forms the view that he will not prosecute, it would be helpful for him to indicate why not. We can soften that—it does not have to be put as bluntly as that—but we need some guidance. We do not want simply to hear that he does not intend to prosecute. It is part of the Parliament's role to be open. People want to know why crimes are not prosecuted. There may be very good reasons why they are not, so that is not a trick or a hostile question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 520780,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to go along with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 520807,
      "EditedText": "Extra penalties should be imposed for those who litter crisp bags."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 520812,
      "EditedText": "And change the standing orders—the parliamentary rules about the remit and operation of committees—of the Parliament if necessary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 520826,
      "EditedText": "That seems reasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 520738,
      "EditedText": "Petitions 31, 34 and 35 from Helen Mackenzie, Peter Norris and Marion Reynolds call on the Scottish Parliament to conduct a review of its obligations under international law regarding the presence of Trident nuclear weapons at Faslane nuclear submarine base, which are under Scots legal jurisdiction.The weapons system was the subject of a decision by Sheriff Margaret Gimblett at Greenock sheriff court on 20 October. Before we discuss the petitions, I should inform the committee that we have received legal advice that the case is sub judice, as the Crown Office is actively considering making a Lord Advocate's reference on it. As a result, committee members should not refer to details of the case in their consideration of the petitions.The petitions as drafted are admissible, as they ask the Parliament to review its obligations in relation to nuclear weapons under international law. Although nothing can prevent the Parliament from conducting such a review, there would be little point in doing so, as the matter is reserved to Westminster. However, it is possible to argue that the Scottish Executive has a direct interest; even though the legal basis of the policy is reserved, it still has the power of criminal prosecution. The petition could be referred to the Executive, which could then respond directly to the petitioners. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee may also want to take a view, so it may be advisable to refer the petition to the Executive via that committee. However, it is open to members to make suggestions of their own."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 520753,
      "EditedText": "If we do that we will put the Minister for Justice in a difficult position. If we make contact with the Lord Advocate and ask him a perfectly reasonable question, as Christine Grahame suggested, we should wait until we have an answer before deciding what to do. It would be wrong to take parallel action, particularly when the Lord Advocate and the Minister for Justice may be operating separately. I accept Christine's point, but I would rather pursue half the proposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 520755,
      "EditedText": "You are asking for his opinion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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      "ID": 14207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 520762,
      "EditedText": "The next petition, PE32, comes from Gavin Cleland and is supported by the Scottish Trades Union Congress. It calls for the prosecution of the Occidental oil company for its part in the Piper Alpha disaster. In particular, the petitioners are asking the Scottish Parliament to declare that the Lord Advocate should initiate a prosecution against Occidental for the alleged negligence that led to the disaster. It also asks the Parliament to resolve to seek a change in the law, if it is required, to enable the Lord Advocate to proceed with such a prosecution.The report that was issued to members does not say this, but we have been given legal advice that this issue, too, is sub judice, and that an appeal is pending in the courts. Again, that means that we cannot refer to the substance of the case against Occidental regarding the Piper Alpha disaster. However, it is within Parliament's powers to ask the Lord Advocate to initiate a prosecution against Occidental, as requested by the petitioners. We have to consider whether it is advisable for us to do so at the moment.The suggested action is that the clerk writes to the petitioner explaining that this matter is reserved. Schedule 5 of the Scotland Act 1998 says that\"the application of Scots law and the jurisdiction of the Scottish courts in relation to offshore activities\"is reserved. We should write to the petitioner explaining that that is the case and that he can take up the matter either with the UK Parliament through the Secretary of State for Scotland or through the Scotland Office. However, it is open to us to write to the Lord Advocate to find out his views on the matter. It is also open to us to refer the petition to the Secretary of State for Scotland, indicating our support for action to be taken. I am not sure what the best course of action would be. I am concerned that, for a long time, people have campaigned unsuccessfully to have this issue addressed through the Westminster Parliament. I hope that the committee will be able finally to deal with the issue, either through the Lord Advocate or, if necessary, through the Westminster Parliament and the Secretary of State for Scotland. What do other members think?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 520764,
      "EditedText": "That is one course of action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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      "ID": 14207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 520770,
      "EditedText": "We all have views on any petition and on any matter, but as professionals we need to take all the aspects on board. People have been trying to get information on this issue for 10 years but have not been able to. We are taking on board only the clerk's advice, which is that it would be within the Parliament's powers to do what you suggest. I see no harm in doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 520771,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have agreement. We are in danger of wandering into discussion of the details and we do not want to get into trouble."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 520772,
      "EditedText": "I have a point to make."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 520773,
      "EditedText": "It is not about the detail, is it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 520784,
      "EditedText": "Phil Gallie is absolutely correct. It is not for the Health and Community Care Committee to conduct a debate, as it has no power to do that. The correct forum for a debate of this kind is members' business, and I do not see any difficulty in getting people to sign up to a motion. We can refer the petition to the Health and Community Care Committee to do with it as it wishes, but we need to be clear that only members can initiate a debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520789",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
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      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 520789,
      "EditedText": "That is agreed.The next petition, PE37, is from Cecil Ritchie and calls on the Parliament to implement nationally the pass plus scheme of additional driving tuition for novice drivers. All matters relating to drivers licensing and qualifications are reserved, so the Scottish Parliament could not introduce legislation of the type proposed; the petition is technically inadmissible in that respect. It is recommended that the clerk write to the petitioner explaining that and suggesting that he take up the matter either with his UK member of Parliament or with the relevant UK minister. We may also refer the petition to the Local Government Committee, asking it whether it wishes to encourage local authorities to co-operate in such schemes, which seem to be very worth while. Do members have any views on this matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 520791,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that we will write to the petitioner in the terms suggested and refer the petition to the Local Government Committee, asking whether it wishes to encourage local authorities to support such schemes?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 520798,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Where is Glen Oaks?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 520804,
      "EditedText": "We can ask the Transport and the Environment Committee to consult the Local Government Committee about this petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 520806,
      "EditedText": "The clerk will check with the clerks of the Local Government Committee and the Transport and the Environment Committee to establish to which committee this petition should be referred. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 520808,
      "EditedText": "The next petition, PE40, is from the World Development Movement, which calls on the Scottish Parliament to debate the implications of the ministerial meeting of the World Trade Organisation—the petitioners refer to the recent, unsuccessful meeting of the WTO in Seattle. International trade and foreign affairs are reserved matters, but issues such as the health service, public-private partnerships, education, local government, transport and housing are all affected by WTO decisions. We should write to the petitioners to explain that international trade and foreign affairs are reserved areas and that we cannot act on the petition—the meeting in Seattle is already past, in any case. We should write to the Presiding Officer and the Parliamentary Bureau to ask what they think the criteria should be for this committee to call on the Parliament to have a full debate on matters raised by petitioners. Although this committee should decide whether to take such action, it would be interesting to hear the views of the bureau and the Presiding Officer. We could use this petition as an example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 520809,
      "EditedText": "That is a key point. This committee receives calls for the Parliament to debate issues, but there is no provision that allows the committee to take such calls further. That is a matter for the Parliamentary Bureau.Linda Fabiani has lodged a motion to which a lot of people have already signed up. We could perhaps mention that the Parliament has already agreed to the principle of forming a view on the matter. I agree that we have to sort it out because we do not have the right to call for a debate on the issue. There is a question of whether we should call for a debate and, if we do, of how we then sort it out. It is really the Parliamentary Bureau's job.Although it is for members to put in their bids for debates according to what they think is important, it would add a dimension and public interest to this committee if there was even a minor provision for us to have a say in that process, if the committee feels strongly about a particular issue. We will still have the job, when we get 15 or 16 petitions, of deciding which of the ones that we have been asked to debate would form a priority for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 520816,
      "EditedText": "It is open to us to raise the question with the Parliamentary Bureau. Let us agree the criteria. If this committee feels that it is justified, we could recommend that a debate be held in the chamber. I am not suggesting that every petition warrants that, but let us agree what the criteria for having debates on petitions might be between this committee and the Parliamentary Bureau. If a petition has a sufficient number of signatures, we could certainly say that it should be debated, and that this committee recommends to the bureau that it is debated. We should correspond with the bureau to clarify that situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 520830,
      "EditedText": "Would that not be for the committees dealing with the petitions to ask about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 520834,
      "EditedText": "We can go down either road, but we cannot do both. Should we send these petitions to the minister or to the committees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 520836,
      "EditedText": "I am easy on this, but I would like a reason for sending these petitions to the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 520838,
      "EditedText": "Would it go to both the committees and the minister? Could one not say that, in every case, the petition should go to the minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 520840,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that Christine has raised the matter—she is right. In this case, it should go to the minister. It seems pointless to lumber the Education, Culture and Sport Committee with this if something is already under way. We can revisit the petition depending on the minister's response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 520851,
      "EditedText": "The final petition, PE45, is from Mr P Ferguson, asking the Parliament to hold an independent inquiry into hepatitis C and other infections of people with haemophilia. This is a matter on which groups have been lobbying MSPs and the Minister for Health. The minister was considering some form of internal inquiry, but the petitioner is very anxious to have an independent inquiry. I know that several members have signed a motion in support of such an inquiry. I suggest that we refer the petition to the Health and Community Care Committee. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ID": 14208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 520853,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is consideration of the progress of current petitions. Before I ask members if there are any issues that they want to raise on specific petitions, I should say that we have information on petition PE30, on heavy traffic on Almondell Terrace in Livingston, West Lothian. We agreed to write to East of Scotland Water, West Lothian Council and the local chief constable about the matter. We have had a response from Stirling Water, which is part of East of Scotland Water. It has been involved in discussions with the local councillor, a representative of local residents, the local MSP, Bristow Muldoon, and officials from West Lothian Council. Stirling Water has agreed to implement speed restriction measures as soon as possible. It will keep in touch with residents and continue to monitor the situation. The local authority will consider the long-term suitability of the road for such traffic and we are awaiting a response on that. That is a minor success."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ID": 14208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 520856,
      "EditedText": "It has been concluded that the demands of PE2 have been met, up to a point, by their inclusion in the strategic roads review. However, that does not clear until work has been achieved. I would therefore like an assurance that the matter will remain on file and will not just disappear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 520866,
      "EditedText": "I note from the conveners liaison group meeting that there is a budget for committees to travel outside Edinburgh. The conveners group certainly thinks that it is important to meet elsewhere in Scotland, to show the people that the Parliament and its committees belong to them. It is an opportunity that we might not get again for the rest of the Parliament—we should seriously consider it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 520868,
      "EditedText": "It is not so much that the petitioners invite us; we decide whether to go to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 520874,
      "EditedText": "The purpose of this is to publicise the activities of the Public Petitions Committee, the right of people to submit petitions and the value of petitions in various areas. To be honest, while I am happy to go to Galashiels, the people who come to that meeting will not be fully satisfied with what they hear, because their petition will be referred on, with little debate by ourselves. It might be a bit over the top for the petitioners to expect a debate. However, even if they get a result in the longer term, that could well do a lot for this committee, its petitions and the Scottish Parliament, in the Borders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 520877,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying, Christine, that those individuals would speak in support of their petitions during the committee meeting, or before and after it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14210,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ID": 14210,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 520879,
      "EditedText": "The only thing that I have to report on is that the conveners group, in response to a request by the committee, has agreed that, as a matter of courtesy, any committee that deals with a petition will show me a copy of the response to the petitioner before it is sent out. If I see anything that might remotely affect the rights of this committee, I will bring it to your attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 520754,
      "EditedText": "May I clarify what I meant, as I was completely misunderstood? We should tell the Minister for Justice that we have written to the Lord Advocate simply as a matter of courtesy, not as a threat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 520756,
      "EditedText": "No, I am not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 520861,
      "EditedText": "We may get a festive petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 520863,
      "EditedText": "I know that a non-party political petition about the Borders railway line is going round the Borders at the moment and will be sent to this committee in due course. I anticipate that it will arrive in January or February, so I suggest that we meet in the Borders, perhaps in Galashiels. The Tweed Horizons conference centre would be suitable for committee meetings, and there is also room for the public to attend. I suggest that the Borders rail link is just the kind of high-profile local issue that the Public Petitions Committee should be considering moving outside Edinburgh for, especially as it is outside the central belt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 520875,
      "EditedText": "This does not just pertain to the Borders. I understood it, John, that if we went out and about, you were quite happy that we should invite the petitioners to speak to us about the content of their petitions. It is important that we directly engage the petitioners with the members of the committee and the Parliament. I do not know if you have ever been to the Borders, Pauline, but it does not take very long to get there. It takes only about three quarters of an hour by car to Gala, which is no big deal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 520778,
      "EditedText": "For efficacy's sake, it might be worth sending it to the Minister for Transport and the Environment before we send it to the Transport and the Environment Committee, to ascertain whether any thought has already been given to this proposal. That is sometimes a quicker way of doing things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 520795,
      "EditedText": "Yes, in case parties raise issues that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee might want to consider when it examines the housing bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 520810,
      "EditedText": "Could I have some information? I do not have the standing orders before me, but I do not think that the standing orders pertaining to this committee allow us to call for debates. We would have to seek change in the Parliament's standing orders. On a second point of information, have we made plain on the Parliament website what the disposal of petitions by the Public Petitions Committee consists of? Is it mentioned that we, regrettably, are unable to initiate debates?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 520817,
      "EditedText": "Could I therefore ask that, once you have had your correspondence, convener, the committee has a debate to formulate its criteria? If necessary, we could then seek a change in the rules. As was correctly pointed out earlier, this is an embryonic committee. We want the embryo to grow to be a big, strong baby, and our suggestion will let it become that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 520837,
      "EditedText": "We should know whether there are ways in which human rights education is incorporated into Scottish education, and whether steps have been taken on Manifesto 2000. There may be nothing on that in education policy, in which case a simple answer to that effect can be given. If the petitions are referred to the committees, the committees will have to ask the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 520839,
      "EditedText": "Not in every case. In this case the matter may already be addressed in the education programme. I am not making a big issue of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ID": 14208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 520854,
      "EditedText": "One of those consumer programmes would call it a result."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 14206,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 14206,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 520736,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:06"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 520741,
      "EditedText": "Me too. Now that that is out of the way, I accept what you were saying. I have spoken to members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and they feel that these petitions would be ideal for them to discuss. They said—and Christine Grahame may want to come in on this—that the Minister for Justice may also want to discuss them. If the Justice and Home Affairs Committee or the minister is to look at this, I wonder whether it could be pointed out that some members' motions relate to this matter and that it would be useful if the committee or the minister could report back to us and not just to the petitioners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 520750,
      "EditedText": "Two courses of action have been suggested. First, we write to the Lord Advocate, asking him for information on when he will reach a decision and whether he will appeal the sheriff's decision. Secondly, we also refer the petitions to the Minister for Justice, asking for the Scottish Executive's view; depending on what that view is, we reconsider what we will do with the petitions. The Minister for Justice will come back to us so that we can decide whether we refer them to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee or deal with it in some other way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 520752,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It is not for the Minister for Justice to say whether the Crown will appeal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 520757,
      "EditedText": "Try to speak through the chair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 520758,
      "EditedText": "It makes sense that we take both actions in tandem. It is the Minister for Justice's job to reply either to us or to the petitioners, and I do not see any harm in asking him, and the Lord Advocate, to do so. That is part and parcel of Parliament. I second what John McAllion said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 520759,
      "EditedText": "I get the feeling that the majority view is that we write to the Lord Advocate and the Minister for Justice asking for the Scottish Executive's position, and that we hold this matter over until we have replies from both. We have never gone to a formal vote, Phil, and I think that you would lose anyway. Are we agreed on that course of action?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 520761,
      "EditedText": "We can ask for a response as soon as possible, but we cannot demand that the Lord Advocate makes a decision within a specific time scale. We can stress that we want this matter to be dealt with and that we would appreciate a reply within a reasonable amount of time. Are we agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 520765,
      "EditedText": "I echo that suggestion. This issue has been around for a long time. It is a shame that we cannot discuss various aspects of the matter. I do not see any point in sending the petition to Westminster. People have been doing that for nearly 10 years and have got nowhere. They have come to us because some action might be taken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 520769,
      "EditedText": "It is perfectly in order for us to write to the Lord Advocate with a copy of the petition to ask him to consider the petition's terms and to indicate the position of the Crown Office on prosecuting Occidental. On the basis of that information, we will be able to decide the best thing to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 520775,
      "EditedText": "I have been involved in a number of cases where the Crown Office has refused point blank to give reasons for a decision. Nevertheless, the Lord Advocate may write to tell us what the decision is. That would be useful information for the committee. Is that course of action agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 520782,
      "EditedText": "Given that the petitioners want the Parliament to debate this issue, perhaps the petition should be e-mailed to all members, with the suggestion that someone lodge a member's motion, which I would expect to get all-party support. In that way, there would almost certainly be a debate, which would meet the petitioners' requirements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 520785,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. However, the committee can consider how such a debate may be progressed, because health comes within its remit. Perhaps it could reply to the petitioners along those lines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 520787,
      "EditedText": "Clearly, this petition should be referred to the Health and Community Care Committee because it falls within that committee's remit. However, some of the petitions that we will be considering later raise the issue of whether this committee ought to be recommending debates on particular matters in Parliament. We need further guidance on that, because we cannot say that there should be a debate in Parliament on every petition that we receive. The bureau would have something to say about that, as it would take up all Parliament's time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520792",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 520792,
      "EditedText": "The next petition, PE38, is from Glen Oaks Tenant and Resident Association, which calls on the Parliament to request Scottish Homes to take a number of steps in relation to the organisation and improvement of tenants and residents organisations. The petition arises from the Scottish Executive's green paper \"Investing in Modernisation—An Agenda For Scotland's Housing\". We know that, next year, a housing bill will be introduced in the Scottish Parliament, which will be aimed at enhancing tenants' rights, although it may not contain the specific detail that is requested in the petition. In the circumstances, we should ask the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee to consider the petition, to respond to it and to take it into account when it examines the housing bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 520796,
      "EditedText": "We should draw that to the attention of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 520800,
      "EditedText": "I see no problem with that. Are members agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 520803,
      "EditedText": "Would it fall within the remit of the Local Government Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 520805,
      "EditedText": "Local government would deal with mandatory fixed penalties, if such penalties were ever imposed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 520811,
      "EditedText": "On your second point, Christine, that is mentioned on the website. It has a full explanation of the limitation of the power of this committee in calling for and trying to arrange debates. On your first point, we can call for a debate to be considered by the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 520813,
      "EditedText": "It is quite right that, under the rules, we have no rights. However, if the will were there, I do not see why we could not ask to make a direct input to the Parliamentary Bureau. It is a mechanical issue that we need to sort out.The bureau might say that it does not think that we have any role in selecting the issues that should be debated, and that it is a matter for them. If the bureau is prepared to listen to what the Public Petitions Committee has to say, it would then just be an issue of sorting out the mechanics of how to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 520822,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that, but I want to point out that we do not have the power to declare anything. The petition says:\"we are petitioning The Petitions Committee as a Campaign comprising 50 Tenants Associations to declare a Moratorium on Stock Transfer in Glasgow\".It is not for us to declare anything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 520823,
      "EditedText": "However, it is important for the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee to recognise that this view exists among tenants organisations. We can ask that committee to reply to the petitioners, while keeping us informed, on Pauline McNeill's specific point and to say that, although the committee may not have the power to declare a moratorium, it will take on board the view of tenants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 520835,
      "EditedText": "I think that they should go to the committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 520841,
      "EditedText": "We are going to pass the petition on the minister, for information. Once we have that information we can decide whether to send it on to the committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 520842,
      "EditedText": "We would be doing the work that would otherwise be undertaken by the committee. Ultimately, it is up to us to decide what happens to the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 520849,
      "EditedText": "Petition 44 is from Mr Archie MacAlister, calling on the Parliament to reconsider section 17 of the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill. The bill comes before the Parliament this week. I suggest that we pass the petition on to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee as part of its consideration of the bill. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 520850,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 520852,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ID": 14208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 520859,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point. I know that that is not the case with petitions to the Westminster Parliament, which tend to disappear from sight. I am glad that committees are taking seriously the petitions referred to them, taking evidence and making progress on those matters. That is encouraging for the work of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 520870,
      "EditedText": "We would have to apply for permission from the bureau and the conveners group for the expense of moving the committee to the Borders, which would give us time to publicise it in the area. People would have to submit petitions relating to that area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 520871,
      "EditedText": "I would have to consider that in relation to my other work at the time. I am not against going to Glasgow or Stirling. Glasgow is quicker for me and Stirling makes no difference, but the Borders might be a much longer trip."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 520873,
      "EditedText": "I have a note here that members do not have. I suggest that the clerk circulates it to members and that we put this on the agenda for the first meeting after the festive period. People can bring concrete proposals to the committee at that stage. The whole committee does not have to travel. The conveners group has made it clear that the quorum is three. If three of us go, that would be a sufficient number for the clerks and so on to go too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 520876,
      "EditedText": "I understand where you are coming from. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14210,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ID": 14210,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 520882,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:00."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 14206,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 14206,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John McAllion): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 520737,
      "EditedText": "I welcome everyone to the sixth meeting of the Public Petitions Committee. As we have about 15 petitions to get through, we will move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 520739,
      "EditedText": "Do we have to declare an interest if we are members of the all-party Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament group?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 520740,
      "EditedText": "I hope not, because I am a member of the all-party CND group. Laughter. However, if we do, I declare it now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 520743,
      "EditedText": "For the record, it has not yet been agreed that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will meet twice a week—and I will have something to say about that when it comes to be discussed.Even given the work load of another committee that Christine Grahame and I happen to be on, my feeling is that this issue is so wide that I do not think that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee is the right place for the petitions. The petitioners are asking us to refer this matter to someone who can consider what the implications might be, so I think that it has to be referred to the Executive and probably the Minister for Justice for a first response. I propose that we go to Jim Wallace for a comment, and not to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee at all. After hearing his response, we could decide what to do thereafter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 520744,
      "EditedText": "First, I declare that I am not a member of the CND group, but I am a member of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee along with Pauline McNeill and Christine Grahame.This matter is currently sub judice; moreover, it is a reserved area. The Scottish Parliament has many important matters in front of it on which it can deliver and I feel that these petitions should be put on hold until the sub judice matters are resolved. After that, we can consider them again and pass them on as appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 520746,
      "EditedText": "I can live with that, convener—it is a fair question to ask."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 520748,
      "EditedText": "It is nice to see Phil, for once, agreeing with CND."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 520749,
      "EditedText": "Has Christine got new initials?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 520766,
      "EditedText": "We have discussed the role of this committee many times when we have come across difficulties. I thought that it was not for us to decide whether we support a petition or not, but to decide whether the petition should be referred on. This petition does not fall naturally under the remit of any committee, although if it came under any, it would be that of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which deals with matters of criminal law. I am not against sending a copy of the petition to the Lord Advocate, but we must be careful about what we do. We cannot pick something out from a petition and say that we want that point to be addressed. I propose that we write to the Lord Advocate with a copy of the petition asking him to comment on the petitioners' request."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 520767,
      "EditedText": "This committee does not dispose of petitions. It recommends that a petition be dealt with by whatever authority—a committee, a minister, the Lord Advocate or whatever. It has been the committee's practice in the past to indicate its support for certain petitions by asking committees or ministers to pursue requests with some enthusiasm. We should write to the Lord Advocate, as suggested, asking for his views. We can then reconsider the petition, based on the reply that we receive, to see whether there is something that we can do at that stage to dispose of the petition properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 520774,
      "EditedText": "No. I fully back Christine's proposal. However, time and again we ask the Crown Office to tell us why prosecutions are not taken forward and time and again the Lord Advocate refuses point blank to give that information. I am totally behind the idea of asking him about his intentions, but—with respect—I am sceptical about our getting any reasons from him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 520776,
      "EditedText": "Petition 33 is from Mr Stuart Crawford and calls for the clearance of litter and rubbish from roadsides and other public areas. In particular, it asks for the implementation of the \"adopt a highway\" scheme, which is currently used by some states in the USA. The scheme involves local community groups and voluntary bodies adopting a stretch of roadside and undertaking to tidy it up regularly. It is probably more difficult to implement such a scheme in Scotland than in the USA, and not just for cultural reasons. Here there is a split between responsibility for trunk roads and responsibility for non-trunk roads. However, I suggest that we pass the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee for further consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 520777,
      "EditedText": "That seems a sensible way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 520779,
      "EditedText": "It is for the Transport and the Environment Committee to decide how to proceed. This issue may involve the Local Government Committee as well. I am not greatly fussed, but I would be happier if we let the Transport and the Environment Committee decide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 520781,
      "EditedText": "The next petition, PE36, is from the Dundee Royal Neurosurgical Unit Fund. Perhaps I should declare an interest—not only am I the local MP but I support the campaign. The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to conduct a debate on the proposed closure of the neurosurgical unit at Ninewells Hospital in Dundee. At the moment, there is no proposal for closure, but the acute services review that is reporting next week may include such a proposal. The suggestion is that we pass this petition to the Health and Community Care Committee for further consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 520783,
      "EditedText": "I have already lodged a member's motion. If members are anxious to sign it, they can do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 520786,
      "EditedText": "Are we in a position to suggest to the Parliamentary Bureau that we have received a petition on this matter and that it should take that into account when considering whether John McAllion's member's motion should be debated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 520794,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps when we refer the petition to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, we can ask it to liaise with the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 520797,
      "EditedText": "Is it in order for this committee to copy a petition to the local MSP?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 520799,
      "EditedText": "It is in Glasgow Pollok."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 520802,
      "EditedText": "That is correct—anyone can access these petitions. Petition 39 is from Mr George B Anderson, who calls on the Parliament to debate section 87 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 and to make mandatory the serving of fixed penalty fines on littering offenders. He is slightly wrong, as it is section 88, rather than section 87, of the act that deals with the use of fixed penalties and whether they should be made mandatory. We should refer this petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee, as it falls within that committee's remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 520814,
      "EditedText": "We could perhaps read from the standing orders about the powers that we have. Rule 15.6.2 states:\"When the Committee has considered the petition it may-(a) refer the petition to the Scottish Ministers, any other committee of the Parliament\"and so on, or we may \"(b) report to the Parliamentary Bureau or to the Parliament; or(c) take any other action which the Committee considers appropriate.\"It is open to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 520818,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. It has been suggested to me by the clerk that he prepare a paper for the next meeting, and that we pursue it then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 520819,
      "EditedText": "As I was saying earlier, I do not think that we really need to recommend a petition in some cases. If we pass it to the Parliamentary Bureau, it can see the motions that have already been submitted and can take a decision. If we feel strongly about it, okay: we make a recommendation. I cannot see anything anywhere that stops us simply passing on a petition to the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 520820,
      "EditedText": "Phil is right but, as Christine Grahame said earlier, we will need some criteria at some stage. Otherwise, we will get bombarded with petitions to deal with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 520821,
      "EditedText": "Okay, but it is agreed that the clerk in consultation with the Parliamentary Bureau will prepare a paper for the next meeting at which we can discuss this further.Petition 41 is from the Glasgow Campaign Against the Housing Stock Transfer, and calls on Parliament\"to declare a Moratorium on Stock Transfers in Glasgow until the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee has examined all aspects of Public Sector Housing in Scotland.\"The Glasgow Campaign Against the Housing Stock Transfer has given evidence to that committee, of which I am a member, in its current investigation into stock transfers. I suggest that this petition should be referred to that committee to be considered as part of its investigation. Are there any other views on this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 520824,
      "EditedText": "Pauline pointed out that the petition calls on this committee to declare a moratorium. That is just the wording of such petitions—the group is not asking us, no matter what our personal views are, to declare a moratorium. It is up to us to decide to which committee we send the petition. You are right, convener, that it has to go to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, because it has to know how people feel about housing stock transfer. It is our job to sift through petitions and submit them to the most appropriate committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 520825,
      "EditedText": "It is agreed to refer petition 41 to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee.Petition 42, from Mr Hutchens, calls on the Parliament \"to discuss ways in which human rights education can be incorporated into all aspects of the Scottish educational, civic and public life.\"Mr Hutchens has given us a copy of a leaflet on the universal declaration of human rights. It is suggested that we send this petition to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee for their further consideration, and that we ask those committees which of them should take a lead in the matter. I am not sure which would be most appropriate. Are there any other views?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 520827,
      "EditedText": "Is that recommendation agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 520828,
      "EditedText": "Petition 43, too, is from Mr Hutchens. It calls on the Parliament \"to ensure that the scientific, cultural and education community in Scotland are informed of the ‘Manifesto 2000'\",which was developed by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation. A copy of a leaflet about Manifesto 2000 is attached to the petition. Again, it is suggested that we send this petition to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and that we ask them which of them should take the lead."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 520832,
      "EditedText": "It is perfectly reasonable for us to go through the minister before we send a petition to any committee, and then decide what to do on the basis of the minister's reply."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 520844,
      "EditedText": "I am not happy for ministers to be dealing with petitions; the committee must deal with petitions. We will send both of Mr Hutchens's petitions to the minister and wait for his response. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 520845,
      "EditedText": "Another suggestion was that we would refer it to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 520846,
      "EditedText": "That was the same issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 520848,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ID": 14208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 520855,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any more issues that they wish to raise? If there are any other issues that members would like to raise later, they should contact the clerk after the meeting so that they can be put on the agenda for the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ID": 14208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 520857,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 520860,
      "EditedText": "Members will see from the document before them that our programme up to June 2000 has been laid out. The clerk tells me that bids have been invited from committees to meet outside Edinburgh as part of a four-week pilot scheme. One committee would sit each week on a Monday afternoon, commencing Monday 17 January 2000. Possible venues are the Geoff Shaw room, Charing Cross, Glasgow, which is the old Strathclyde regional building, and the council chambers in Stirling.Two committees have already indicated that they would like to meet in Glasgow. The Local Government Committee will meet there on 17 January, and the European Committee will meet there on 24 January. We have a meeting scheduled for 18 January, but we could bring it forward to 17 January, if members have strong views about meeting either in Glasgow or in Stirling. It is intended that only one committee should meet in each venue on each Monday, but we could explore the possibility of a short Public Petitions Committee meeting taking place before or after the Local Government Committee meeting on 17 January.The problem with such an arrangement would be that petitions may dry up over the festive period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 520862,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps someone who is the worse for wear on the morning of 1 January will decide to petition the Scottish Parliament. However, if we held a meeting outside Edinburgh when there were only two or three petitions to consider, in contrast to the 15 that we have dealt with today, it may send out the wrong message.The Parliamentary Bureau is of the view that committees travelling outwith Edinburgh should have strong reasons for doing so, such as direct local relevance. It may be best to arrange a meeting elsewhere later in the programme. Advance publicity may encourage petitions from the local area. I know that Christine had a suggestion along those lines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 520864,
      "EditedText": "Which petition is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 520872,
      "EditedText": "Everybody else seems to be battling. As one of the people who said that the committee should go round the country if an item was important enough, I am all for travelling through. If the pensioners who came through to Edinburgh a fortnight ago had had a petition in, we could have met them in a more suitable area for them to travel to, rather than having them stand in the cold. That is what this committee is for. I am not bothered about whether we go to Glasgow or Stirling, as long as the issue is big enough that enough people would turn up. We should go to the petitioners, rather than them always having to travel to Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 520878,
      "EditedText": "I have checked with the clerk—it is perfectly in order for people to speak to their petitions, as long as it is not sub judice. Local members or members of the public can speak in support of petitions; it is up to us to invite them. If we decided to go somewhere to discuss petitions, we would have to indicate to the petitioners that they had the right to speak to their petition. I do not imagine that we would go anywhere unless that was what we were going to do. If we get this paper back to the next meeting, we can make a final decision on this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14210,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ID": 14210,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 520881,
      "EditedText": "That completes the committee's business. Thank you for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3620296+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ID": 14208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 520858,
      "EditedText": "A large number of the petitions that this committee considers are sent to the Scottish Executive for a response. It might be appropriate in some cases to refer petitions to ministers, as I suggested earlier. I am happy that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee took evidence from the Carbeth hutters. That showed that petitions can make an impact, are considered seriously by committees, and contribute to the democratic process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 520865,
      "EditedText": "It is a petition to restore the Borders railway line. It is local campaign, not a party political petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Programme",
      "HeadingID": 14209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ID": 14209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 520867,
      "EditedText": "How soon do petitioners have to put in a bid? Are we talking about informal—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 520745,
      "EditedText": "I feel that we should ask the Lord Advocate what he intends to do. It is all very well to say that he is actively considering making a reference, but he has had quite a while to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 520751,
      "EditedText": "We should advise the minister that we have written to the Lord Advocate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 520788,
      "EditedText": "It would also bypass the other methods of arranging members' debates. That, again, is a matter for negotiation. Referring the petition to the Health and Community Care Committee would give it more momentum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 520790,
      "EditedText": "I endorse what you have said, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 520793,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that suggestion. It might also be useful if the petitioners were encouraged to contact the Justice and Home Affairs Committee when the bill comes before that committee. Sometimes so many submissions come in that they can, for the best reasons, get lost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 520801,
      "EditedText": "On a point of information, surely these petitions, once submitted, are in the public domain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 520815,
      "EditedText": "So initiating a debate could come under \"any other action which the Committee considers appropriate\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 520829,
      "EditedText": "I nodded agreement about petition 42, but I wonder whether petitions 42 and 43 should be referred first to the Minister for Children and Education to say how the matters covered by these petitions are addressed in education policy. There may be something in education policy of which we are unaware."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 520831,
      "EditedText": "Committees may have to remit petitions that we send them to the minister because they do not know what the position is. In certain cases, where matters of policy are involved, it might be quicker to send petitions to the minister. If the minister says nothing, the petitions can go to the committees.I know that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee has received petitions that we thought should have gone to the minister before coming to us, because all that we did was ask the minister about them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 520833,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone else feel that that is sometimes more efficient?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 520843,
      "EditedText": "If the minister says that there are no plans for this matter and nothing is under way, could he pass it on to the committee? That would be a more efficient way of doing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 520847,
      "EditedText": "I raised it again after having seen the second petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2405789+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13487,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 496556,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:01"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 496558,
      "EditedText": "The agenda begins this morning with a discussion with Paul Grice, whom I welcome to the committee. A paper was submitted previously about a potential expansion of the remit of the committee to cope with liaison matters. We will begin by asking Paul to talk about the paper. The committee will then ask questions and discuss the way forward.I also welcome Carol McCracken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
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      "ID": 13488,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 496563,
      "EditedText": "That raises an issue that I would like to examine, which is how the committee might be satisfied that what we say about an issue such as the House of Lords would represent the views of the Parliament. Would you anticipate that we would identify the salient issues and put views forward for the Parliament to decide by resolution, or would you suggest that we might make the response directly? How do you think that that would work? The Executive might have a view on that as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 496564,
      "EditedText": "I think very much the former. On an issue like that, I would see the role of the liaison committee as examining and distilling the facts and report, perhaps giving a number of options, so that when the Parliament debates it and takes a view by resolution it will do so on an informed basis. Mr Gorrie mentioned a few examples of less momentous issues, on which the committee would not need to invoke the whole parliamentary machinery."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 496566,
      "EditedText": "Iain Smith, have you had the opportunity to discuss this issue with colleagues to get an Executive perspective on it? We would not necessarily be reluctant to tread on your toes, but there are matters on which we might look at things differently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Parliament (Iain Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 496567,
      "EditedText": "We have had some preliminary thoughts about the paper on liaison put before the committee. Andy Kerr has raised some of the concerns that the Executive would have. If the Procedures Committee's remit is too broad, it may be difficult for it to discharge its key function, which is looking after the operation and procedures of the Parliament.There is some merit in expansion of the remit of the Procedures Committee, to consider issues such as how other organisations impact on the operation of the Scottish Parliament. Care must be taken to ensure that it does not stray into the remits of other committees in terms of relationships with particular public bodies. The Executive does not oppose the principle that there should be some expansion of the remit of the Procedures Committee. We would be happy for the Executive officials to work with the clerks to see if they could come up with the wording for an amendment to its remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 496571,
      "EditedText": "Presumably the matter has been discussed with the Presiding Officer. How does he feel about it? I know that no one is suggesting that  he should clear his statements with a committee, but he might feel that his hands are being tied, just as we might feel that we are tied by views that he expresses that are his own."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 496572,
      "EditedText": "I think that I was trying to say something slightly different from the words that you put in my mouth.I cannot speak formally on behalf of the Presiding Officer. He might want to let you have his views formally in writing. However, I believe that he would argue, and I would agree with him, that the current system works well. I am sure that he would not want to routinely clear statements with this committee and I do not think that he would expect the committee to pass matters to him.I can envisage a situation when the Presiding Officer decides that he might want to refer a tricky issue to this committee, just as he refers tricky matters of procedure to you when he thinks that advice would be valuable. I think that it could work in the other direction as well. In my opening remarks, I was trying to say that I hope that the committee does not come up with something that cuts across his role. Under standing orders, the Presiding Officer formally represents the Parliament, and I think that he should continue in that role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 496577,
      "EditedText": "I take the point that members have made that this new function should not stop us doing our main work and that we should concentrate on our priority issues. Somebody has to do it and, as long as we made it clear that this task came quite low on our list of priorities, we could manage to do it. I support the proposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 496579,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is a watching brief. We should see how the situation develops. Weighty issues are bound to arise on which it is right that the Parliament should make its views known. I am sure that that will happen soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 496581,
      "EditedText": "We will ask the clerks to work with the Executive to come up with the wording of a revised remit of this committee. We will report on that in due course to the Parliament.How will we do that, John? Will we report on issues as they arise or gather them together?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13488,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 496582,
      "EditedText": "That would be up to the committee. We will work out a form of words and bring that to the committee's meeting on 18 January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 496585,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that and will work with John Patterson to arrange it. There will be an ad hoc nature to the issues that arise for discussion, but we could give the committee examples of areas that it might be asked to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 496589,
      "EditedText": "We also have copies of correspondence with the Scottish Daily Newspaper Society. The issue is straightforward. Representatives of the press have indicated to us that difficulties are caused to them due to the timing of votes. They want to discuss that with us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 496595,
      "EditedText": "That is the point. We were perhaps a bit remiss in not inviting them and that is our responsibility. We have the chance to make up for it and, although it might not change our opinion, it is worth listening to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 496596,
      "EditedText": "We will be setting an example to other committees as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 496599,
      "EditedText": "There should always be the facility to hear a minority view. It would seem a bit strange were everyone on a committee to appear to be committed to a decision if the vote were passed by five votes to four."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 496607,
      "EditedText": "If that is the logical conclusion of the position that we established previously, is it reasonable to assume that the clerks have a competent knowledge of workaday Scots or Gaelic, given that the chamber office sometimes has difficulty in defining the exact meaning in English? Would it be acceptable to refer motions to official report staff—who are more specialised in those matters—to satisfy us that the Gaelic and Scots motions are the equivalent of the English and can be accepted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 496611,
      "EditedText": "I will get my retaliation in before I call Andy Kerr. You might have heard me speak Scots, Gil, but I have heard you speak English."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 496618,
      "EditedText": "I have a constructive suggestion. If two texts are submitted and printed at the same time—by all means, they should be checked out with experts—we should operate on the basis that the English text is the official one for laws or other measures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 496621,
      "EditedText": "Donald Gorrie's point is very important. Words are our business. Once we have passed laws, they will be examined in the building next door. If there is the slightest difference in meaning between the two texts, we will have created an incredible problem. Even with the best will in the world, there could be slight shades of difference in meaning, because one language never quite conveys the same as another. Such differences could cause huge legislative problems, so we would have to decide which language rules, in the legal sense—which text would be part of the legislative process. Legislation that is not clear is bad legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 496622,
      "EditedText": "The introduction of new words to the Oxford dictionary is an everyday occurrence. We are talking about the death of Scots words."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 496623,
      "EditedText": "Not necessarily."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 496624,
      "EditedText": "Gil Paterson is desperately trying to get an argument about this and, to be blunt, he is not going to get one. We are being very supportive of this proposal. There is no attempt to undermine anything here. Let us consider the mechanics and the logistics of it, and ensure that the matter is treated holistically so that we get an overall view. I concur with the convener's view that we should ask for an issues report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 496628,
      "EditedText": "That matter would form part of our evaluation, and the recommendation that we might make at the end of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 496631,
      "EditedText": "We may ultimately decide that each committee must decide how to balance its work load. We must consider that matter sensibly, and advise all committees whether it is up to them to proceed in that way. The challenge has been issued. It is appropriate for us to consider this aspect of the work of committees.Turning to the work programme, has every member got a copy of the letter from the convener of the Subordinate Legislation Committee, Kenny MacAskill, about a review of section 10 of standing orders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 496639,
      "EditedText": "Hear, hear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 496640,
      "EditedText": "I agree that the Subordinate Legislation Committee should pursue the matter. When we reach the appropriate stage, it might be a better use of everybody's time and energy to hold a joint meeting rather than endlessly circulating pieces of paper that people do not fully understand. At such a meeting, we could ask members of that committee why they do things as they do, and they would have to persuade us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 496644,
      "EditedText": "The working group will be a superquango."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 496654,
      "EditedText": "That would seem logical, convener. The legislative process is still at an early stage. We have had one emergency bill, and two other bills are in progress. We have not gone far enough down the road to make any major comments about how the process is going. Concerns have been raised along the way, but I think that it would be better if we waited until we are further on with the process before reviewing it, and continually monitor the process with a view to reviewing it in six months' time, for example.Consideration of the operation of the committees is also an on-going process. I agree with Iain on that. We have to be careful. People will be concerned about the Procedures Committee examining the work of other committees, but I think that there is a role for us to play. Some of the committees are perhaps getting a bit bogged down, and what we discussed with Kenny MacAskill's proposals offers one way of approaching things: committees could share work loads, for example. Iain is right that we should consider the issue of parliamentary questions with some urgency, and should examine the other issues as part of a monitoring process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 496655,
      "EditedText": "If it is reasonable to do so, we will ask the clerks to present a report at the next meeting to identify how we might examine the issue of parliamentary questions: the sources of evidence; comparator parliaments; and evidence to quantify work loads in relation to those at Westminster. Part of the argument is about how things were in comparison to how things are. We need to work out from whom we will hear evidence and what areas we will investigate. We can then approve a programme of work which, I hope, will be reasonably concise in terms of the time that the committee will have to spend investigating the matter. At the first meeting after the recess, we can agree on a programme of work and a timetable to bring the investigation of parliamentary questions to a speedy conclusion. Are we happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 496660,
      "EditedText": "There is a balance to be struck between ensuring that everything is properly discussed and recorded, and catching things that are essentially trivial and do not need to be on the record. Why should the official report write down the ramblings of members on matters that are not of great public significance? It is important that we get that balance right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 496662,
      "EditedText": "That is a very valid point. There is a danger that we will make decisions that are driven by budget considerations rather than by the principles of the CSG. It might be pertinent to ask each committee to discuss and relay back to us through conveners a response on what matters should be on the record and what should be regarded as housekeeping and therefore not recorded. We should proceed on this as a Parliament. The matter has been discussed at the conveners liaison group, but there is a procedural issue on which it is appropriate for this committee to take an overview."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 496663,
      "EditedText": "What are we doing about Mr Farquharson's letter on press access to committee papers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 496665,
      "EditedText": "The matter has to be high on our agenda, as there is a very legitimate complaint about an area in which we are falling short."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 496666,
      "EditedText": "We will want to make a decision on that at our next meeting.That concludes the business of the committee. Thank you for your attendance. Enjoy the recess. Hae a guid hoaliday, or whatever it is in Scots. Gang warily."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 496667,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:12."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13487,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13487,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Murray Tosh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 496557,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. Everybody who is likely to attend is now here. We have apologies from Michael Russell and Janis Hughes.The sound seems to have a slightly peculiar quality this morning; it seems to be echoing—Interruption. That is better. I would like to say to the staff, on behalf of the committee, that the Procedures Committee team did a very good job last week in compiling that enormous report for the Parliament. It was extremely well received, so congratulations and thanks to them. I also thank all the members who spoke in the debate and ensured that the adoption of standing orders was successfully concluded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 496561,
      "EditedText": "If someone wants to bring an action against the Parliament, section 40 describes the machinery for doing so. In a nutshell, it says that they must bring the action against the SPCB. That is right, and it would be the body to take action against. However, the question then arises, if it is an issue of general interest to the Parliament, how does the SPCB form a view as to what the Parliament's opinion is? The SPCB may not be the right body to consider such issues. Section 40 is more complex than that, but that is essentially what it is about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 496562,
      "EditedText": "Mr Grice has raised a number of important issues. On formulating a view on the House of Lords, I gave evidence, on behalf of the Liberal Democrats, to Lord Wakeham. Other colleagues may have had the same opportunity. One of the issues that he was considering was whether the new House of Lords should have Scottish, Welsh and Irish representatives and, if so, whether they should be taken from the Scottish Parliament. From my brief experience of wearing two hats, I said that that would be an impossibility and he should not do it. However, the Parliament might not share my view. That is the sort of issue on which the Parliament should form a view, if it is asked. This committee would be a suitable one to formulate a view, although the full Parliament must take the decision.We should be involved in the council of the isles and other similar bodies. There is the slightly less formal Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and the question of whether we get into the Inter-Parliamentary Union. The paper on liaison also mentions that the Finnish Parliament would like to talk to us. All those links would be useful. This committee might be the mechanism for that.The working draft paper raised the issue of the relationship between the Parliament and the Executive in relation to concordats and so on. That issue must also be explored. Who fights the Parliament's corner if there are issues on which fighting must be done?We should pursue those important issues in whatever way is best to move forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 496568,
      "EditedText": "The principle that liaison is needed is right. Perhaps this committee should provide the facility rather than be the facility? Otherwise, we might drift away from our core business. That might be a good idea because of the dry subjects that we consider. It might be more exciting if we are involved in other issues, especially for the press.Some difficulties might arise in relation to the way that this committee works because of some of the weighty issues that might come before it. Perhaps we should consider having a committee called the liaison committee to consider those issues rather than bring them to this committee. We might spend more time considering liaison than we do procedures, although that might not be a bad idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13488,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Carol McCracken (Director of Clerking, Scottish Parliament): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 496573,
      "EditedText": "The gap that Paul identified in his opening remarks is important. There are times when the Presiding Officer will refer to the SPCB or to the Parliamentary Bureau for advice before he represents Parliament on day-to-day issues. There are also issues that come in that are weighty and on which it would be helpful if the Presiding Officer were able to represent the Parliament, having heard the Parliament's view.Members asked earlier what might happen when the committee reported on such issues and whether it would be for the committee to liaise with the relevant body. We envisage that, when it comes to the bigger issues, the committee report would be brought before the Parliament and would lead to a resolution of the Parliament, which the Presiding Officer would communicate to the relevant body. That fits with the representative role of the Presiding Officer under standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 496575,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that he has to have a view. However, sometimes it is not clear whether Parliament should have a view on something and the Presiding Officer is well placed to make judgments on that. As you said, Andy, sometimes deciding whether one should even have a view is quite a process and it is therefore quite useful to have machinery in place to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 496576,
      "EditedText": "In a sense, we are being asked to take on the role of being a sounding board for the Presiding Officer on a range of issues, to allow him to cast his net a bit more widely than he is able to at the moment. That does not threaten us with a huge work load.There are constitutional and liaison matters on which I would not want to have the responsibility for deciding on the Parliament's response, but it seems reasonable that we should analyse issues, identify areas where a response is appropriate and put options in a report before Parliament and that the Presiding Officer should relay the decision of Parliament to the relevant body.I am happy to proceed on that basis. Does the committee agree to doing so?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 496580,
      "EditedText": "If the work load becomes intolerable, the option of having a separate liaison committee is open to us. However, the proposal before us today seems to be an acceptable way to begin to address the task.Are members agreed that we should accept the paper?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 496588,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Are we agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 496590,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to talk to anyone; this is an accessible Parliament. However, I thought that we had dealt with this subject and had reached a firm view on the matter. When we recommended that decision time should stay at 5 pm, we were aware of the view of the newspapers. What is the point of revisiting the matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 496594,
      "EditedText": "They might feel that we should have called them in when we had our previous discussion and that they have not had the opportunity to put their views across. That might be our fault."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 496598,
      "EditedText": "Indeed. We will programme a meeting for a reasonably early date.The next issue is the letter from the convener of the Finance Committee suggesting the new concept of a committee amendment, which would bind committee members to a committee decision. I do not know quite what to make of the idea, so the best thing might be to ask for a paper that will allow us to tease out the issues and discuss them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 496600,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that is what is being proposed, although I know no more than what is in the letter. The convener of the Finance Committee is trying to establish a convention whereby amendments to bills—amendments that are agreed by the whole committee—carry more weight than routine amendments, because committees will have considered the evidence carefully. He is trying to build up to a situation in which the Parliament and the Executive—which presumably would defend the position in the bill—might be more moved by an amendment on which a committee unanimously agreed than by a simple amendment. That might not be what he is getting at, but, to be fair, I do not think that he is trying to stifle opposition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 496601,
      "EditedText": "An extract of the debate in the Finance Committee was attached. As ever, different members of the committee came at the matter from different angles. As you said, convener, one of the questions raised was whether members would be bound to a decision if agreement were not unanimous. The convener of the Finance Committee wanted to establish a position whereby if the Executive or some other party machine—for whatever reason—took against a committee's unanimous decision to support an amendment, committee members would not be bullied into voting differently. However, if there is dispute within a committee, members should have the right to stand their ground. The members of the Finance Committee were the first to go through that hoop. We must learn from the hoops that others go through, so an issues paper would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 496602,
      "EditedText": "This is an important but difficult issue, which raises many questions. I am all for an issues paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 496604,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for putting me on the spot. We have not had any such discussions, but I am interested in the matters that you have raised and would welcome an issues paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 496608,
      "EditedText": "It is the chicken-and-the-egg syndrome. We have decided that the Scots and Gaelic languages—as well as other languages—should be promoted. It would be logical to have the facility to lodge motions in those languages. It seems a bit strange to censor such languages in advance of receiving a motion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 496613,
      "EditedText": "It would be appropriate for a motion in English, if it is competent and acceptable, to appear in the business bulletin immediately. However, it would be reasonable for the clerks to punt the Scots or Gaelic version up to the official report staff so that they can be satisfied that that version and the English version mean the same thing. Members may feel that that is over-fussy, but I feel uneasy about being asked to sign a motion—which is what members do: they ask people to support them by signing their motion—that is in a language that I do not understand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 496616,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we have to find a sensible balance. It is important to remember that a motion that is passed by the Parliament is a decision of the Parliament. Therefore, its meaning has to be clearly understood, and it has to be enforceable if it requires an act of legislation or some other measure.I would like to use the Scots tongue as much as possible but, as we discussed at our previous meeting, there are different Scots tongues in different parts of Scotland. Ma mither uses words that I cannae understand, even though I was brought up by her in Fife, and I am sure that nobody from other parts of Scotland would have a clue about them. We must be careful about how we define the Scots tongue, and ensure that what is lodged in the Parliament is clear and unambiguous.That is the difficulty with the proposal. I am reluctant to reach a decision on this today without exploring the issues and, in particular, the legal implications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 496625,
      "EditedText": "Convener, I support you totally in requesting a report. I am just rebutting some points that have been raised today. I am certainly not saying that what you have proposed is wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 496626,
      "EditedText": "We agree that there should be an issues paper. We should e-mail members on this and invite them to communicate their views on the steps that might be taken.Item 7 on the agenda is on the letter that I received from Tom McCabe about the proposed amendments to standing orders, before they were adopted last week. I thought that the committee should see the minister's response, and we should be happy just to note it.Item 8 is on correspondence that was received from the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, which relates to concerns that the SCVO has expressed to Roseanna Cunningham, who is convener of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, about the manner in which that committee will take evidence from the voluntary sector and outside bodies. The recommendation is that, meantime, the committee notes correspondence. John Patterson has written to the clerk of that committee to seek a background paper. When we receive that we will be able to respond. Issues may arise from it that we will want to consider in the context of scrutinising committee work, which has been suggested as a matter for us.Any matter that arises in relation to a committee should be considered generally. We should never challenge the decisions of committees. The issue for us is how committees work and develop; that should be the lens through which we look."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 496629,
      "EditedText": "I cannot speak for Roseanna Cunningham, who is the convener of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. We have taken huge amounts of evidence to front-load the legislation. I suspect that, although we say that we will not take oral evidence, it is not put in tablets of stone that we will never take a piece of oral evidence. If we felt that we had to hear from somebody who had written in, I imagine that we would do that. However, generally, it will not be physically possible to take oral evidence. We could not do the work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 496630,
      "EditedText": "It is very much for individual committees to decide whether they have enough evidence to make their decision. We had an example of such a decision a few minutes ago, when we decided to meet representatives of the press."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 496633,
      "EditedText": "It was sent out separately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 496634,
      "EditedText": "There was also a late circulation of an 11th item on the agenda, which is simply a reminder of non-priority standing orders issues, which were not included in last week's report. Does everybody have that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13489,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 496635,
      "EditedText": "That was not for circulation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 496636,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I advise members that, in addition to the issues in the report that was prepared for item 9 of the agenda, we have some outstanding issues in standing orders to consider. They include Executive announcements, emergency questions, the method of electing committee conveners, declarations of interest, the use of Scots, reasoned amendments, time allocation for members' bills, the conflict of roles of conveners who are spokespersons, an issue that we did not resolve. We made a commitment to examine the issue of the suspension of standing orders in greater depth. Other issues are the role of non-committee members in committees, and the feeding of the principles of the consultative steering group throughout the entire working of the Parliament. We will dispatch that matter in a five-minute session one wet Sunday afternoon.There are other issues that the clerks reported to the committee and that the committee discussed and agreed to consider as part of its work for next year. It is not the case that all that we have to do is contained in this report, as other matters are lurking in the background.I apologise, as I had thought that all members had a note of those issues.Members have a report on recommended topics. The substance of that is in bold, in paragraph 14. We had suggested that we might consider subordinate legislation procedure. That suggestion prompted the letter from the convener of the Subordinate Legislation Committee asking, in effect, that that committee should be the lead committee in this and that it should conduct any review. Our clerks are happy with that, but want to ensure that they are sufficiently involved in the work, and will be on any working group that is established. Potentially, there is a lot of work to be done on this. The people who will understand the work of that committee best are those who are doing it. The mechanism that Kenny MacAskill suggests might be the best way in which to take the matter forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 496642,
      "EditedText": "I am happy for this review to go ahead, but I think that it would be useful for the working group to include representatives of the Executive secretariat, as they are involved in drafting the statutory instruments that come before the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 496646,
      "EditedText": "That will kill two birds with one stone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 496649,
      "EditedText": "I was serious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 496650,
      "EditedText": "The second suggestion is that we instruct a report on the implementation of key CSG principles to selected areas of the Parliament, including standing orders, procedures and business. That follows naturally from the approach that was made by Ian McKay, the Educational Institute of Scotland representative, on behalf of the panel of CSG people, especially as the panel made a number of specific suggestions to us in the document accompanying their letter. It is, therefore, sensible that we consider the possibility of such a report.Thirdly, in a letter that Tom McCabe sent—on a previous agenda—it was suggested that we examine the legislative process, the operation of committees to date and the operation of parliamentary questions. I have also had a letter from the Presiding Officer which, as I discovered this morning, I had neglected to pass on to the clerks. They now have it and will circulate it to all members for their information. It essentially asks us to consider the issue of parliamentary questions. I know that the Executive has been anxious to persuade the Parliament to assess that.I made the suggestion earlier that we obtain an issues paper on financial procedures. There could be a lot of work in that, but it may be that we could give the lead role to the Finance Committee. There is potentially a pretty big work load, and I invite comments on the Executive's suggestions of the three areas to examine. Do you wish to say something on that, Iain, perhaps to narrow down what aspects of legislation and committee operation we are being asked to consider?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 496653,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 496658,
      "EditedText": "That is the second of the two recommendations at the beginning of paragraph 14. We might want to focus a little more closely, but it would be unwise to do so before we have had a discussion with those people, whom I hope we will meet early in the new year.I think that we have agreement on how we proceed on those issues. The 10th item on the agenda is a note of next year's committee meetings. Again, that is for information.There is another item on which I would like the committee's views. I received a letter very recently about press access to papers. It concerns accessibility and the equality of information that people get about committee business. I propose, again, that we get an issues paper on this matter. Arguably, there is a central matter of principle here, but there are also practical implications, so it would be sensible to discuss the issue. I do not expect a decision today.The journalists feel that there is an anomaly in that reporters who attend local authority meetings must, by law, be given sets of papers to tell them what is happening, but that rule does not apply here. They feel frustrated sometimes as they try to find out what the business of the committees is. If we wish our business to be understood and reported, we may have to make some response. I do not prejudge that response, but simply flag this up as something that we should discuss soon.The last issue on which I want to take your views is the official report. The Presiding Officer has suggested that committees should attempt to dispense with the official report when they discuss housekeeping business. A number of committees have done that, and have discussed in private how they will organise witnesses and so on. At the most recent meeting between the Parliamentary Bureau and committee conveners, he suggested that there was scope to cut down use of the official report much more substantially. Again, I have asked the clerks to consider that suggestion in terms of standing orders and the principles of accessibility and openness. I want to put this on the agenda for discussion at an early date.Are there any comments on that now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 496661,
      "EditedText": "I concur with your views on the provision of information to the press. I hope that we will resolve that matter. On the question of the official report, we will have to give clear guidance if housekeeping matters are to be discussed privately. What is and is not a housekeeping matter, and where people should and should not be held accountable in the Official Report, are very much in the eye of the beholder, so we should tread warily. Although the sentiment about the use of resources is valid, we should ensure that the advice that is given is accurate, so that different committees do not use different methods of determining what are housekeeping matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13488,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice (Clerk and Chief Executive, Scottish Parliament): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 496559,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee for inviting Carol McCracken and me along this morning. I propose to say relatively little by way of introduction as I think that the papers are self-explanatory. We would rather engage in a debate with the committee than read out long statements.I will make two points. First, as the Parliament has operated over the past few months, it has become clear to me that there is a gap between the Parliamentary Bureau, which looks after the Parliament's business, and the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, which looks after staff, facilities and resources. There is a gap for a body which could consider more fundamental issues on behalf of the Parliament. That is what lies behind consideration of a committee with a liaison role. We could discuss later what specific examples it might cover—House of Lords reform is one that I can think of immediately. Some aspects of that might well have impinged on the Parliament as an institution. The question in my mind was; how might the Parliament consider whether it should have a view on that and, if so, what that view should be? The British-Irish Council is on the agenda. In as much as there is a parliamentary, as opposed to an Executive, participation in that, assuming that it is the Presiding Officer or one of the deputies who goes, there might need to be a mechanism to consider what line the Presiding Officer might take on certain issues.Without wanting to fall foul of sub judice rules, a court case is going on in which the judges have been examining how section 40 of the Scotland Act 1998 operates. There are general issues about the effect of the operation of the Scotland Act 1998—not the act itself, which we all accept for the most part. It is all a reserved matter, although some of it can be amended under schedule 4.There are issues related to the operation of the Scotland Act 1998, on which the Parliament as an institution might want to take a view. There should be some mechanism to consider whether the Parliament should have a view on an issue and, if so, to distil it.On major issues, the Parliament can only form a view by resolution. Again, there are questions that must be asked. How would the Parliament be informed? How would the debate be informed? How would members understand what the issues are so that they could come to a considered view on any motion? At present, there is not a piece of machinery that can properly cope with that.The other point that I will make is about the relationship between anything that this committee considers and recommends and the role of the Presiding Officer under rule 3.1 of the standing orders. Under that, he has a role to represent the Parliament. I hope that anything that this committee would consider and recommend would be complementary to that duty.His representational role works well; it is flexible, quick and unbureaucratic. None the less, for some of the more difficult issues there might need to be a mechanism that enables the Presiding Officer to take views. I hope and expect that anything that we produce by way of liaison machinery does not cut across that representation and allows the Presiding Officer to operate effectively, as he does at present.I will leave it there. Carol and I will be happy to take questions and discuss any issues that the committee wishes to raise with us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 496560,
      "EditedText": "Could Mr Grice remind me and other ignorant members, if there are any, what the issue is around section 40 of the Scotland Act 1998?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 496565,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should be cautious about this. Many of these issues might be detailed, complex and take up a lot of our time. The priority must be the core tasks of this committee. I am comfortable with the view that we should integrate with other structures and organisations that would allow us to be part of the body politic globally. The convener's question touched on the issue that worries me, which is how this committee would formulate views on politically complex issues about relations with other organisations and bodies. I am wary of this committee biting off more than it can chew.Is it necessary for us to go down this road, or could another body consider those issues? We should consider how much of a diversion from our core task the liaison role could be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 496569,
      "EditedText": "Paul, presumably the idea of having a separate liaison committee occurred to officials when they were considering this paper. Why was that option thought inappropriate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13488,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 496570,
      "EditedText": "We would not rule out the possibility of there being a liaison committee and we would expect the committee to form a view on it. Part of the reason for not including it in the paper was simple logistics. As members know, we have few members compared to the number of committees. The forming of another committee would increase the already high work load. Another reason is that there is a blurring of boundaries between procedures and liaison. A lot of the machinery by which Parliament operates ends up in the form of standing orders, which is the core business of this committee. Some liaison issues flow from standing orders naturally.Andy Kerr and Gil Paterson made a fair point: how on earth would the committee decide where to focus? We wanted to establish machinery, in this committee or a new committee, by which we could decide what the priority issues were. We would not want to bite off more than we could chew. As Andy said, House of Lords reform is a massive issue. Part of the value of the machinery would be to decide whether the Parliament could or should have a view on something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 496574,
      "EditedText": "This might be a simplistic question, but do we need to fill the gap? Does the Presiding Officer have to have a view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 496578,
      "EditedText": "I say that we should proceed with caution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 496583,
      "EditedText": "As part of that, could we have some further indication of issues that might be included in this category under the general title of liaison? That would let us know what we are biting off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13488,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13488,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 496584,
      "EditedText": "That would be useful for the committee to know and we might decide not to bite off too much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 496586,
      "EditedText": "The second item on the agenda is there for information and was noted at our meeting on 2 November. The intention is that we should meet informally representatives of a group that wants to address the principles of the consultative steering group in the context of what it sees as the evolving practice of the Parliament.Are we agreed that we will discuss their concerns with them and discuss issues that were raised by the meeting subsequently?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 496587,
      "EditedText": "Will they come to speak to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 496591,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point, but as they have asked to make a representation to us, we should let them. That is the spirit in which we work. If they do it again and again, we might object.I think that their point is probably wrong. Most of the substantive debates finish at 5 pm and the votes would therefore take place then anyway. It might be useful to trawl though the first few months of the Parliament to see what could have been resolved in the morning. I suspect that the vote could only have been in the morning on the few Opposition-led days that we have had.We decided that having many divisions would place a burden on ministers and that having members running up and down the road all day would be an intolerable waste of parliamentary time. However, I think that the representatives of the newspapers are entitled to discuss that with us further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 496592,
      "EditedText": "I take Gordon's point. However—and I am aware that Gordon knows infinitely more about the law than I do—most people are allowed an appeal after having lost their case. The concept is reasonable. It is important, though, to make the point that committees should not usually revisit issues that they have already decided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 496593,
      "EditedText": "I accept that we need to be accessible and that if those people want to come, we must show them courtesy. However, I do not want us to revisit matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 496597,
      "EditedText": "Fair enough—we will meet them, but I do not think that we were remiss. We made an informed decision. We knew their views—not just about ministers running up and down the street, but about other matters relating to the press—and analysed and discussed them. However, as this is an open, accountable and democratic Parliament, let us hear the views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 496603,
      "EditedText": "Okay.I have a couple of other points to raise in relation to finance, although they are unscripted. Recently, I received a couple of letters about financial procedures from an expatriate Scottish journalist, which I should have copied and will copy to members. In the letters, the journalist argues that a lot of the Parliament's work revolves around budgetary issues and that the subject committees have an important role to play in monitoring the budget. As a result of its timing, the budget this year has been dealt with differently from the way in which it will be dealt with in subsequent years, but there is a potential issue about financial procedures.I would like the committee's permission to raise the matter with the Finance Committee—which would be the lead committee—so that a mechanism can be agreed that will satisfy us that the Finance Committee and other subject committees will have an appropriate hack at the budget. We will need to examine carefully how the Executive intends to handle such matters in the future.I am throwing the issue into the arena for future discussion. If members feel uncomfortable in any way, I am happy to hold back until the journalist's correspondence has been circulated so that members can see where the fellow is coming from.As convener of a subject committee, Andy, have you had any discussion about how your committee will be able to scrutinise the Executive's budget in subsequent years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 496605,
      "EditedText": "I will give everyone, including Iain Smith, a copy of the correspondence so that members can see what I am talking about.The next letter, which is for members' information, is Sir David Steel's response to a series of letters that the committee sent in early November. Those letters followed discussions on the survey of members' movements to find out where they are on Wednesdays and during emergency questions and ministerial statements. The Presiding Officer makes a number of interesting suggestions and he has also ruled on how he intends to select the questions for First Minister's question time, which accords with the committee's view on the matter.The Presiding Officer's cryptic final comment is about the handling of recommendations issued by the committee and our intention to post various pieces of information to members via the e-mail system, so that everyone knows what has been discussed and what our recommendations are. He is quite happy for that to be done. We felt that if we gave him advice about something, we needed to be clear that he was happy to have that advice related to all members. It would appear that, in the spirit of openness and accessibility, he is. From now on, when we reach a decision that does not require a resolution of the Parliament or a motion and which is simply an opinion, we will post it on the e-mail system so that members know about it.The next issue is the Scots language and the first matter relating to that is a follow-up to a previous discussion. I received a letter from Mr Fraser, to which I have responded. He has suggested a form of words for the aith and the threip, which presumably will be discussed by whoever takes the decision on them. The wording will be developed in time for the next swearing-in session. For the benefit of the official reporters, the correct spelling of threip is T-H-R-E-I-P—I would have thought that that was a word in everyday use up in their office, but apparently it is not.I have also received a letter from Irene McGugan, in which she points out that the chamber office will not accept a motion on the Scots language that is lodged in the Scots language. Having accepted that Scots can be used in the Official Report and that the oath can be taken in Scots, should we accept that motions can be lodged in Scots? That raises another question: should members be allowed to lodge motions in Gaelic? If so, should we require English translations to be lodged at the same time so that members who are uncomfortable with Scots or Gaelic know what the motion says? We are not being invited to ask for an issues paper on that matter, although we may choose to do so. We may want to discuss the matter now. I see that Gil Paterson is desperate to get into the discussion, so I will let him fire on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 496606,
      "EditedText": "It seems so illogical. If we accept that members can address the chamber in Scots or Gaelic, it seems stupid—if I may use that word—not to receive the motion in Scots or Gaelic. Previously, when we talked about members giving notice that they would speak in Scots or Gaelic, we said that it was a good idea for them to do that and to provide as much information as possible, as they might use words that were not in general use. What better method of doing that than having the motion and what will be talked about written down for the reporters in the first place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 496609,
      "EditedText": "It is not censorship—it is simply to satisfy ourselves that a motion lodged in a language that not everyone understands makes sense, is coherent and is identical to the English version, which would be lodged simultaneously. It is a check."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 496610,
      "EditedText": "I picked you up wrongly. I thought that you were saying that the motion should be in English only. I am not suggesting for one minute that it is not a good idea to produce a translation in English at the same time, so that people who are not Scots can understand the motion. Many people working here do not know Scots words because they were not born in Scotland. If we mean it when we say that we want to promote those languages, they must be written down. It should be common practice. There should be no ceremony and no blowing of trumpets every time that Scots is used. I have heard you, convener, using Scots words. It should be an everyday occurrence. If someone wants to make an entire speech in Scots or write his or her motion in Scots, that should be fine. I find it alarming that those languages are being not promoted, but put further up the agenda than they should be. It should be a natural progression. We must ensure that those languages are not blocked in any way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 496612,
      "EditedText": "If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that motions may be submitted in Scots, but that an English translation should be lodged at the same time and signed off in the same fashion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 496614,
      "EditedText": "If I wanted you to sign a motion, I would write it in Scots and in English, but I would ask you to sign the Scots version. Would not that be sufficient to satisfy you that they both meant the same thing? The problem with Scots and Gaelic is that they have been demoted, repressed and pushed into a corner for too long. If we are to let them out of that corner, we should not be uneasy about it. That is what I do not like."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 496615,
      "EditedText": "The point is that I can understand a motion that is in English, but do not have a clue about a motion written in Gaelic and I might or might not understand a motion in Scots, depending on whether it is the type of Scots that you speak, Gil, or the literary Scots in which some of the letters that we have received are written.That is the difficulty for MSPs and members of the public who read the motions that appear in the business bulletin. Inevitably, if we accept Irene McGugan's proposal, the question that will arise is whether parliamentary questions should be accepted in Gaelic and Scots. Presumably—I do not know whether this is the case—one could, at the moment, ask a parliamentary question in Gaelic, which might be burdensome for the minister unless a simultaneous English interpretation was provided.How far does this unravel? When does it reach the point at which we are not championing the Scots language, but creating unnecessary difficulties in how we conduct our business? We have to find a sensible balance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 496617,
      "EditedText": "What has come out of our limited discussion is that this issue could impact on a whole range of matters. It would be sensible to get a report from the clerks, as I proposed in the first place. The clerks should talk to Irene McGugan and Gil Paterson and anybody else who is interested, tease out the areas in which there might be implications, and report back with options for how we might satisfy what are legitimate desires—we have already accepted that in relation to the oath—and establish sensible working practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 496619,
      "EditedText": "That could resolve the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 496620,
      "EditedText": "I am all for going ahead with motions in Scots and Gaelic, if that is possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 496627,
      "EditedText": "The Justice and Home Affairs Committee is not doing anything that would prevent any organisations that have concerns about particular parts of the bill from providing written submissions, which the committee could have before them as they consider the bill. The only concern is whether there should be oral evidence at stage 2. Frankly, we would never get through bills if we took oral evidence at stage 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 496632,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a copy. It is probably my fault. Was the letter sent out separately?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 496637,
      "EditedText": "It is clear that Kenny MacAskill has applied his mind to this matter. I am happy to let him have a run at it, as it is obviously quite technical. Good luck to him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
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      "ID": 13489,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 496638,
      "EditedText": "We thought that we would put you on the working group as the rapporteur for this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 496641,
      "EditedText": "A joint meeting might evolve naturally from the working group. We can leave that suggestion on the agenda, and wait to find out whether it is the best way to go forward in practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
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      "ID": 13489,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 496643,
      "EditedText": "Iain Smith's suggestion seems sensible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13489,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 496645,
      "EditedText": "If Kenny MacAskill is to chair a superquango, that might put some of his future speeches at a peep."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13489,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 496647,
      "EditedText": "I thought that it was a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13489,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 496648,
      "EditedText": "There was no edge whatever when Gordon Jackson said that Kenny MacAskill had been applying his mind to this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 496651,
      "EditedText": "We will perhaps come to the legislative process later, because the more the committees have had the chance to see the legislative process by actually progressing with legislation, the more lessons will be learned. It is an important part of this committee's work, but it is perhaps not the most urgent one.A number of concerns have been expressed about the work load and operation of committees to date. The Executive would welcome an eye being kept on that and wishes to ensure that the committees are able to work effectively and efficiently, but that is an on-going rather than a specific piece of work. The operation of parliamentary questions is of concern to all parts of the Parliament, and is something that we want to address fairly speedily."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 496652,
      "EditedText": "Would you be happy if we were to consider the issue of parliamentary questions reasonably early and feed the other two issues later into next year, perhaps behind the other two points mentioned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 496656,
      "EditedText": "We can slot in the other issues in the wake of that investigation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 496657,
      "EditedText": "The wise people—Ian McKay and many others—who wrote to us raised some more fundamental issues. Presumably, once the committee has heard from them, it may wish to pursue some of the issues that they raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 496659,
      "EditedText": "I do not know what other committees do, but the Justice and Home Affairs Committee often gets rid of the official report, so that it can deal with housekeeping matters privately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13489,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 13489,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 496664,
      "EditedText": "Because the letter has only just arrived, I am reluctant to bounce anything on the committee. Before our next meeting members should read the letter and think about the issue that it raises. In the interim, the clerks will work up a report for our next meeting, at which we can discuss it and form a response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8625697+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 479452,
      "EditedText": "We should follow the suggestion in the document and consult the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and Stirling Council. I assume that the committee does not want to get drawn into the campaign to save the Museum Hall in Bridge of Allan, but, as Gil Paterson said, it is desirable for all councils to have a suitable system for dealing with petitions. We should ask COSLA to discuss the matter with councils. We should not be too prescriptive. As long as there is an agreed system, different councils might take different approaches to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 479455,
      "EditedText": "I should not really participate. However, I would appreciate it, convener, if you would write to Stirling Council to ask how it handles petitions—it is wrong to say that it ignores them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 479456,
      "EditedText": "I am only referring to what is said in Mr Wilson's letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 479457,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the committee should do that at the moment. I will ask COSLA to comment on the general principle of the way in which councils should deal with petitions. However, we will let the convener of the Public Petitions Committee, and the petitioner himself, know what we have decided to do. When we get the information back, we shall take matters from there, but I do not see us being able to fit any in-depth discussion of the subject into our programme in the next few months. Do members agree that we should wait for COSLA to come back to us on that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 479459,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to interrupt, convener. This matter is not on the agenda, but I seek clarification about the locus of the committee regarding business rates. Last week, the Minister for Finance made a statement that I am sure most members of the committee will have heard. In that statement he said:\"Over the next 12 months, Henry McLeish and his team will examine the case for small business rate relief and consider the best way forward.\"—Official Report, 8 December 1999; Vol 3, c 1262.Does that mean that the committee will no longer have any part in that debate? Will we be the second-tier committee on business rates, or will we still have an input into that? Our deliberations in recent weeks do not seem to have had much impact on what the Minister for Finance has said so far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 479467,
      "EditedText": "We may have to filibuster on the statutory instruments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 479473,
      "EditedText": "Colin puts me up to it before the meeting starts. I am completely innocent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 479475,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 479476,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 479477,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, Mr Marks. I am sorry that we called you in early. We had finished our previous business sooner than expected.Frederick Marks is the local government ombudsman—there actually is one; it is not just an address that one writes to.We would like you to give a short presentation, after which members of the committee will ask you questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 479487,
      "EditedText": "The downside of that is the downside of anything that a council does in the public arena: its members have to face the electorate. I happen to believe in local democracy.The important thing is that the facts are known. There are two other steps to take, one of which is not dealt with in the bill—and cannot be dealt with in the bill. If there is an adverse finding by the standards commission, whatever that may be, there is also the question, whether it decides to do something about it or whether it is the council that is left to decide what to do about it, of what the political parties will do about it. Will they wish to continue to be represented by the person concerned if there has been a serious breach of the code? If the party still supports that person, and that person stands, will the electorate vote for them? Whatever the standards commission may decide, that is not the end of the story."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 479488,
      "EditedText": "What did you make of the cross-cutting between you and the chief investigating officer? You have flagged up in advance that there may be potential conflicts, and that you think that they could be addressed at the time. You cannot judge what the severity of those conflicts might be. Hindsight is often a wonderful thing, but if there was a conflict between one office and the other over a major issue, hindsight would not be an adequate excuse. Do you not think that it would be better to address that now, rather than wait to see what develops?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks (Local Government Ombudsman, Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 479478,
      "EditedText": "I do not know the extent of members' knowledge about my function as ombudsman, so it might be helpful to explain that first.The post of local government ombudsman was created in 1975. The remit is to consider complaints from citizens who believe that they have suffered an injustice as a result of maladministration. I was appointed by the secretary of state and by royal warrant. The period of service is from the date of appointment until the end of the service year in which the person appointed reaches the age of 65. In that period the appointment can terminate through death, misconduct, incapacity or voluntary resignation. It is a position of considerable independence. My funding comes indirectly from the local authorities through the Accounts Commission, which is designated as the body responsible for providing me with staff and office accommodation.The main thrust of my concern is not the merit of decisions reached by local authorities but the way in which they are reached. I try to ensure that the local authorities follow proper practice. If they do, no decision that they make is subject to review by me. There are limits to the issues I can consider but, generally speaking, I review their administrative practice.The bill that we are considering is a step along what has been quite a long road that started with the Nolan committee. That committee made a number of recommendations and I played a part in the early stages of consideration of them. The last consultation paper was issued in April 1998 and was entitled \"A New Ethical Framework for Local Government in Scotland\". In my response to that consultation paper, I suggested that the local government ombudsman might have his role extended. That would allow me to undertake investigations into cases where questions of misconduct were involved. However, in view of the proposals that are contained in the bill and, in particular, in respect of the proposed function of the chief investigating officer and the intention to include other public bodies in the scope of the bill, I do not think that the holder of my office is in a position to undertake the role of investigating officer.In responding to all the previous consultations, I have been keen to stress the importance of the perception that the public might have of any arrangements that are put in place. In my view, the arrangements have to be—and have to be seen to be—independent and robust enough to inspire public confidence. One element of that is the need for uniformity. It has always been my view that a single code of conduct should apply to all the people who are governed by it. I understand that the bill proposes that and I welcome that. I also welcome the proposals to standardise the arrangements for registering interests. I understand that, if the proposals are followed through, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities might be invited to prepare a code in consultation and I would be happy to participate in that process.I will deal with the provisions for enforcement. It must be borne in mind that the chief investigating officer and the commission are likely to be in a highly charged political situation as they are being asked to judge conduct. Therefore, their independence must be real and must be seen to be so. It is proposed that the chief investigating officer will be appointed by ministers, that the members of the standards commission will be appointed by ministers and that the staff of the commission will be seconded from the staff of ministers. That contrasts with the situation that exists in the Accounts Commission, on which the proposals are based. Although the Accounts Commission members are appointed by ministers, it appoints a controller of audit, subject to ministerial approval and it appoints its own staff from whom it can draw independent advice. The proposals for the appointment of the commission and of the chief investigating officer do not meet the test of perceived independence and are fundamentally flawed.I have a couple of points to make on the role of the chief investigating officer. He will have less independence than I have, partly because of the way in which he will be appointed but also because he will be subject to direction by the commission. He will be more open to criticism than I am in exercising his discretion on whether to investigate. I can investigate only in response to a written complaint. He will not be subject to such a restriction and might be criticised for failing to act in response to media pressure. In that respect, he would be in the same position as the controller of audit. The controller, however, is able to draw on the resources of the appointed auditors to each local authority before deciding whether to investigate. The chief investigating officer will have no such resource. A requirement for an accusation of misconduct to be in writing or to be the subject of a direction by the commission before it can be investigated would help to safeguard the position of the chief investigating officer.I am conscious that your next witness is the secretary of the Accounts Commission, who is in a much better position than I am to discuss issues arising from the commission's experience. I will restrict myself to two further comments on the proposed commission's powers.First, when I conclude an investigation with a finding of maladministration, I make recommendations as to how any consequential injustice might be remedied. It is for the council to determine whether it will implement those recommendations. In the five and a half years that I have been in post, all my recommendations have been accepted and acted on.When the Accounts Commission reaches its conclusions, it also makes recommendations, either to the council or to the appropriate minister, who then determines what action to take. The proposal in the bill is that the standards commission will make recommendations to the appointing authorities in relation to appointed members, but will take decisions in relation to elected members. That is clearly anomalous and, in my view, unsatisfactory. My experience suggests that there is a case for the final decision to be made by councils, on the commission's recommendation. If that arrangement proved to be unsatisfactory over time, it could be changed.Secondly, I support the view that the range of options that are open to the commission following an investigation and a finding of misconduct—whether that is in the form of a decision or a recommendation—should be much wider. Those options should include, for example, removal from convenership or representational office. The proposed arrangements raise the issue of the interaction between the proposed institutions and me and, in particular, between the chief investigating officer and me. On a day-to-day basis, I do not envisage any great problem in that. At present, if I receive correspondence that is obviously meant for someone else, for example, the housing association ombudsman, I simply redirect it and inform the complainant. If I received a complaint that raised issues of maladministration and misconduct, I would advise that the complaint about issues of conduct should be submitted to the chief investigating officer. Where we were both engaged in investigations into the same circumstances, we would require to co-ordinate our activities so that we neither obstructed each other nor placed an unreasonable burden on those being investigated. It could be that, on the same facts, the ombudsman and the chief investigating officer would reach different conclusions as to whether a breach of the code had occurred. I see no obvious way of avoiding that possibility but expect it to be a very rare occurrence, and I would be content to cross that bridge when we come to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 479481,
      "EditedText": "On the first point, I have always strongly taken the view that the investigation part of the exercise should be external to the local authority, and that under no circumstances should it be undertaken wholly internally. I accept that allowing the council to make the final decision raises the possibility of political influence, but given that at that stage the whole matter—the investigation, the public hearing that would have to take place if there were to be a recommendation for action, and the commission's recommendation—would have been ventilated in the public arena, it would be extremely difficult for a council to take a different view, unless it could provide information or good reasons for doing so.In my experience, councils accept my recommendation although they do not always agree with it. The important part of the exercise is much less about the penalty at the end than the exposure of the facts in the public arena, which allow members of the commission, council and public to know what they are judging and to decide whether the commission's recommendation is fair. Assuming—as I think I am entitled to at the moment—that the commission's recommendations will be seen to be fair and just, it will be very difficult for a council to overturn that for political reasons. As I say at the end of my written submission, if that arrangement turns out to be unsatisfactory over a period of time, something could be done about it.On the matter of appeals, all these actions are subject to judicial review. One can go on having decisions that are appealed again and again, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. There is no appeal per se against any of my decisions and recommendations, but my views and actions are subject to judicial review. I think that that would be sufficient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 479483,
      "EditedText": "My view is coloured by the fact that I have grave doubts about whether such a penalty would ever be imposed. I find it extraordinarily difficult to contemplate a situation where a member of a council is found guilty of a breach of the code, but not of a criminal act. What breach of the code would justify suspending a member for five years, or whatever, from any possibility of membership?If I remember it correctly, the legal position is that a person can only be disqualified in those terms if they commit a criminal offence that justifies a sentence of three months, which is a pretty hefty penalty. Although I note that suspending a member is one of the possibilities, I find it difficult to envisage circumstances in which it would be likely to be imposed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 479485,
      "EditedText": "As I said, the proposition to which I object is in the covering note rather than the bill. I would revert to what the provisions of the bill say, which would make the position the same as it is for the Accounts Commission: the commission would appoint the chief investigating officer and its own staff.Another issue, to which I may return, is that the funding arrangements for me are through a designated body, the Accounts Commission. I can only employ staff with its agreement, and it provides me with offices. I would be keen to see a distancing of the standards commission from the possibility of influence from a  political source. In my own case, that is done by the nature of my appointment and by the way in which I am funded. It is more difficult to do that in the standards commission's case as far as the appointments are concerned. It may be possible to do it through the funding arrangements. I have raised the matter informally with the Accounts Commission. It would perhaps be helpful if I say that we will examine the matter jointly. We may make a submission in response to the committee's invitation for comment by 14 January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 479486,
      "EditedText": "Mr Marks, can I take you back to the point that Bristow Muldoon raised? Could you let us know what the downside would be of a council's not making the final decision on any subsequent punishment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 479491,
      "EditedText": "Yes. In the end, that is the only answer in such a situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 479493,
      "EditedText": "The decision is only the start of what is done about a given matter. If I reached the conclusion that there was no breach of the code and that there was therefore no maladministration, that would be the end as far as I was concerned. If the chief investigating officer came to the conclusion that there was maladministration, he would need to make a report to the standards commission. The commission would then need to decide whether it agreed with him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 479494,
      "EditedText": "I wish to ask you about staff, Mr Marks. You make one or two comments on that at the foot of the second page and at the start of the third page of your submission. You compare adversely the chief investigator's resources against those of the Accounts Commission. What are your resources? Do your staff have a local government background? How can you advise us about staff and their backgrounds? With due respect to you, the work of your department is only as good as the people at the front edge, doing the fieldwork. The same will no doubt apply to the new gentleman—or lady."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 479495,
      "EditedText": "The point that I was making was not so much about the quality of the staff, although that is obviously very important. It was that the staff should be seen to be the staff of the standards commission, not of ministers.The standards commission will require advice separate from that given to the chief investigating officer. It has to come to a judgment about whether what he is recommending is correct or not. In that way, it would be similar to the Accounts Commission, which has the controller of audit and its own secretary who is responsible for advising it as to what it can and cannot do, and on its conclusions. Some of my staff have worked in local government; some have not. Over time, they gather considerable experience of how local authorities work. I have no doubt that the fact that there have been no refusals to implement recommendations during my five and a half years as ombudsman is partly due to the acknowledgement that, over the years, my staff have developed experience and are therefore likely to come to conclusions which are seen to be valid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 479500,
      "EditedText": "Good. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479501",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 479501,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the role of the chief investigating officer. We have accepted that the chief investigating officer may be a woman. That aside, I was interested to hear about the pressures that the chief investigating officer would be under to make an investigation. One of your concerns was that the decision to investigate may come from pressure which has little to do with the issues and more to do with how much fuss may be generated.Given your earlier comments about the importance of being seen to be fair, just and independent, any investigation would have to respond to legitimate concerns rather than to someone successfully winding things up in the background.If I am correct, you suggest that the solution would be to require that the accusation be in writing—or to require that there be direction from the standards commission. Would that requirement be enough to inhibit investigations being initiated as a result of public events?How difficult would it be to get an accusation in writing? Would you expect to set criteria to justify an investigation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 479502,
      "EditedText": "Before I decide whether to conduct an investigation, I must have a specific complaint that someone has—or thinks that they have—suffered an injustice as a result of maladministration. From time to time, it has been suggested that the ombudsman might launch an investigation of his own volition, in response to information that might reach him by some other means.However, my predecessors and I resisted that approach. Where would that information come from? How would we decide what justified an investigation? Whatever decision we took, we would be criticised, either for investigating when people thought that we should not, or for not investigating when people thought that we should. At present, our simple answer is, \"I have a written complaint from someone who specifies what they are complaining about.\" It seems to me that, if the chief investigating officer or the standards commission is to be involved in judging conduct, the person whose conduct is being judged is entitled to know the source and nature of the complaint that they are being asked to answer.Whether a complaint arrives by letter or, given modern communications, by e-mail or whatever, it is important that the source of the complaint—the person who makes the complaint or lodges the accusation—and the nature of the accusation are known."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 479503,
      "EditedText": "Councils have the penalty of surcharge for councillors who act illegally. Do you think that the bill should remove that penalty from councils or extend it to other public bodies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 479504,
      "EditedText": "I claim no specific knowledge of that subject—perhaps that question should be directed to your next witness, who is the secretary of the Accounts Commission. My practical experience of many years is that the threat of surcharge has a value, but I do not feel able to comment on that in a professional capacity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 479505,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise a couple of points for clarification. Is there a system of appeal against your decisions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 479508,
      "EditedText": "No. During my period as ombudsman, councils have always accepted and acted on my recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 479513,
      "EditedText": "Does that reflect the fact that people were content with the ombudsman's decisions, or is it because the judicial review process is fairly complex?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 479514,
      "EditedText": "I would not go so far as to say that people are always content with the decision, but they do not feel strongly enough to take it to the stage of judicial review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 479515,
      "EditedText": "You pointed out, as have others, that the proposal is for one rule for elected members and another rule for quangoists—or whatever they are called. If I understand the position correctly, you suggest that, instead of the standards commission making the final decision, the individual council should make the final decision, following which it would be up to the council to implement that decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 479516,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is my suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 479518,
      "EditedText": "The public should vote the councillors out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 479521,
      "EditedText": "There are no more questions, so I thank you very much for attending and for giving us your paper. If we need to call you back again, we will do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 479523,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that would be helpful. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 479524,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 479525,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 479531,
      "EditedText": "The main criticism of surcharge is that it applies to councils and not to MPs, MSPs and others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 479533,
      "EditedText": "Is it your view that the method of appointing the chief investigating officer and the standards commission could damage the perceived independence of the chief investigating officer and the commission?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 479535,
      "EditedText": "Can you suggest an alternative to that method of appointment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 479536,
      "EditedText": "I heard the ombudsman refer to what is in the bill—that the standards commission would appoint its chief investigating officer. That is the same arrangement as for the Accounts Commission and it appears to work. I have no experience of his independence being challenged by anybody, so I am inclined to say that the provisions that the bill contains are adequate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 479537,
      "EditedText": "You said in your statement that you had operational concerns about the standards commission, but you did not expand on that. Would you like to do so now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 479540,
      "EditedText": "The independence of each of the agencies is accepted by all those involved, and there is no attempt to influence conclusions. I am talking about the process—ensuring that the timing of events and activity is co-ordinated and that, where possible, information is shared, within the legitimate statutory constraints, so that the same individual is not interviewed four times about the same set of circumstances. That ensures that there is not a mismatch of conclusions, although each agency must be responsible for its own conclusions—that goes without saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 479542,
      "EditedText": "There are different kinds of accountability. It is entirely right that if an individual knowingly makes a decision that breaks the rules, they should be held to account in a fairly particular way. As you rightly say, in years gone by, a fair amount of the commission's activity has centred on such issues. That is a particularly strict accountability and it is right that it should be a matter for the commission.Questioning the efficacy and efficiency of decisions that are made is more subjective. Clearly, public servants must be accountable for those decisions, too, but perhaps in a different way. The commission's different reporting regimes reflect that. When there is a question of legality, the process is strict, but it is less strict for public interest reports, which are designed to expose issues. When people are seen to have made decisions that are not efficacious or efficient, or if there are issues of value for money, they are ultimately accountable at the ballot box. That is a different kind of accountability, but it has to exist."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 479544,
      "EditedText": "The Accounts Commission was created in 1975 partly because of a series of high-profile and highly political cases in the 1960s and early 1970s. People had difficulty dealing with them because the process of audit and accountability was in the hands of the secretary of state and it was felt that it was potentially a political process. The Accounts Commission was deliberately created in the legislation for the reorganisation of local government in 1975, to put an independent body between the two tiers of elected politicians—the secretary of state and councils. That was expressed as one of the reasons for the commission's establishment. The commission and ministers have always been at pains to emphasise its independence when performing that particular statutory role. The appointments of members to the commission are made through Nolan-inspired processes. The decisions are made completely independently, and not—in my experience—on any kind of political basis.But of course, there is no room for complacency. If there is to be a review of the way in which appointments to public bodies are made, appointments to the Accounts Commission and the standards commission will doubtless be included. Whatever may have been said over the years about the Accounts Commission and its processes—especially by those who have been at the receiving end—there has never been an allegation that it has been politically motivated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 479545,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, by extension, in your experience, there is nothing to suggest that there would be any political motivation in appointments to the standards commission, which would be a similar body, and would rely similarly on political independence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 479546,
      "EditedText": "I have absolutely no reason to imagine that it would be any different from the Accounts Commission in that respect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 479547,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the idea of protocols to co-ordinate responses, as you suggest. Experience here has taught us that it is better to have the protocols in place before you start working.Are you suggesting that, if you work in a particular way according to certain protocols, you should arrive at the same conclusions; or are you saying that, after people have gone through the procedures, their responses should fit together?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 479558,
      "EditedText": "Comrades—we are all comrades in the true sense of the word—let us return to business. I welcome Bill Speirs, the general secretary of the TU—STUC. Sorry, I nearly promoted you to the TUC. I also welcome Matt Smith—he has been here so often that we may ask him to join the committee—who is the president of the general council. They are going to give a presentation on the bill. We will employ the same format as before and ask questions afterwards. I thank our witnesses for coming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 479565,
      "EditedText": "If an appeals procedure is put in place, where should the appeal take place? Should it be within the commission or by ministers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 479567,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that I will be able to report to the sisters that you spotted the test that had been placed for you and condemned the sexist language. I was interested in what you said about the imbalance, as councillors would be more likely to be scrutinised than other members of public bodies. How do you think we could make public bodies more transparent and open to scrutiny? We discussed earlier how we could guard against frivolous accusation and investigation. The danger is that the investigating officer might respond to media pressure. The investigating officer could be put under pressure to announce that there is to be an investigation—irrespective of whether there is any substance to the allegation. What guidelines do you want, to ensure that matters are investigated when there is a problem but the investigating officer does not respond to manufactured pressure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 479569,
      "EditedText": "Who does the executing of the guilty? The local government ombudsman pointed out that he makes a judgment and passes it to the council, which then puts the judgment into effect. He thought that that was an area worth investigating.You mentioned quangos, and raised and interesting issue. Let us say that the Scottish Trades Union Congress has a representative on a health board, that he or she steps out of line, and the commissioner presents heavy evidence against him or her. Should it be the health board or the STUC that sacks that person, or does whatever it is required to do?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Speirs: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 479570,
      "EditedText": "My view is that it would be cleaner and easier to operate if it were the health board. People would probably think that that was the best way.There are fewer and fewer areas in which rights of nomination exist. Normally, names are put forward but someone else—usually a minister—makes the appointment. Technically, the nominated person serves as an individual but, where there are people who have been nominated by a particular body, I believe that the nominating body should be required to remove the nominee or take such other action as may be recommended. That would put the onus on nominating bodies to ensure that difficulties do not arise in the first place.I presume that if the nominating body did not co-operate in taking action, it would lose its right of nomination. Because it would wish to maintain its reputation and right of nomination, it would not just take appropriate action when someone stepped out of line, it would take action to ensure that individuals did not step out of line in the first place. That action could include providing adequate training in how to approach duties in public life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 479571,
      "EditedText": "Is there any mileage in the idea of the commissioner sending a report to a council, in the case of a councillor, and the council putting the report into effect?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Speirs: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 479574,
      "EditedText": "That is an area in which the democratic processes of the STUC may have to resolve its precise view on the matter. In other words, we do not agree. Laughter. The public will probably expect MSPs to be subject to the same procedures as councillors and other members of public bodies. They will not make a distinction between those groups. McIntosh argued for parity of esteem for local government councillors and MSPs. Most of the people who make submissions to the committee will argue that the scope of the bill should be extended to the Parliament.My personal view is that, not least because things are ultimately left to the electorate, this is an area in which self-regulation can be justified. I do not want to enter into a political argument about the extent to which this Parliament is a sovereign body. However, there is no doubt that in the minds of the public it has many elements of sovereignty. There is an argument for saying that if parliamentarians cannot regulate themselves properly, it falls to the electorate to deal with that, rather than to some quasi-judicial public body. I welcomed Lord Johnston's judgment on the fox hunting legislation; he said that it was for the Parliament, and not for judges, to decide what is competent and what is not. I know that there are other views, and I am aware that my views may not win the support of most of the public or of the STUC; I am just a paid official. Matt Smith is the elected president."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Speirs: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 479576,
      "EditedText": "Again, that is not something we have considered yet. Having said that, we argued throughout the campaign for the establishment of the Parliament and in the consultative steering group for an inclusive approach, as far as that is practicable given the realities of political debate and democracy. On standards, where public confidence is important, self-regulation rather than a quasi-judicial process would encourage balance. The idea of rotating chairs is also well worth consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 479577,
      "EditedText": "You said that MSPs and councillors should be subject to the same procedures. Do you think that we should also be subject to surcharge, or do you think that we now have the opportunity to remove that, as has happened down south?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 479582,
      "EditedText": "Flogger Campbell."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Speirs: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 479587,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether Matt has any recent experience of whistleblowing activities among his members. We should ensure that procedures put in place by the ethical standards bill interface straightforwardly with existing whistleblowing legislation rather than produce two different channels or mechanisms. However, at the moment, I could not advise the committee how that might be done. The position of employees needs to be protected, not least because they are vulnerable if the individual against whom the complaint has been directed decides to take action against them.That issue relates to the issue of anonymity, which is raised in the consultation. There is no easy answer. Although, to guard against frivolous complaints, people should be required to produce evidence, we can understand why people sometimes wish to preserve their anonymity from the person being complained about. That could be dealt with by, for example, not acting on anonymous complaints in green ink that arrive through the post. However, we could ensure that a complaint from a named person to an investigating officer can remain anonymous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 479589,
      "EditedText": "I have three questions. First, you said that you feared that there would be differences between the treatment of councillors and treatment of members of quangos and other public bodies. The local enterprise companies are not included, but I understand that there will be a standard code for them, which will be subject to the approval of Parliament. Will that code be enough?Secondly—I am abusing the chair furiously—you said that you felt that there would be employment law problems in relation to those who are in paid employment. I understand that, but I am not sure whether you included councillors among those in paid employment.Thirdly, on the matter of appeals, it seems from the draft that there is no appeals procedure for councillors, as there is for people on public bodies. That means that, ultimately, if everything has been taken away from them, councillors must go to the electorate. What are your views on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matt Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 479591,
      "EditedText": "On appeals, I would not wish to exclude councillors from the appeals mechanism if they are to be subject to suspension or loss of office. I said that I was concerned about the role of the electorate in that, but if councillors are subject to a penalty, they should have the same right of appeal as any other person.On staffing, I wish to address the issue of employees and public office, which relates to a discussion that I had with this committee. It was certainly the view of the Scottish Trades Union Congress that the opportunity of individuals to seek elected office should be maximised, even if they were council employees. It was thought that that could happen if there was an adequate code of conduct or practice covering areas of potential difficulty. I hope that that matter will be examined in the framework document, so that employees will be given the maximum opportunity to seek office and will not be excluded, as they are at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matt Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 479595,
      "EditedText": "I should have said at the outset—I know that this is also the committee's view—that the great majority of the people who are involved in public life in Scotland would never be affected by this. We are not for a minute suggesting that there is a great swathe of issues to be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 479596,
      "EditedText": "So far we have mainly concentrated on the standards issue. Perhaps you could give your views on the repeal of section 2A? I think that I know the views of the STUC, but I would like to give you the opportunity to express them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 479599,
      "EditedText": "I would like to raise the issue of an appeals procedure for councillors—we must give serious consideration to incorporating that into the bill. The approach to dealing with councillors and appointees to public boards must be consistent. That goes back to the question of parity of esteem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 479604,
      "EditedText": "Unfortunately, I missed some of the presentations last week. I was trying to persuade Mr Jack McConnell to give local government more money—which is not a productive use of time, despite Mr McConnell's being one of the better ministers.Today, I felt that the ombudsman made some relevant points from his experience. The question of whether the commissioner should be appointed by the minister or by the standards commission is important. Because we are falling foul of sheriffs being appointed by people, and therefore not being independent, the whole independence thing could become quite important in the future. He made another good point about an accusation having to be named and in writing. The standards commission should not respond to garbage from the less intelligent part of the media. As is the case with the ombudsman, the commissioner makes a determination and it is then up to the council to do something about an accusation. That is worth considering. There was also a point raised by the Scottish Trades Union Council about whether, when somebody from a quango does something wrong, it is the minister, the quango or the people who appointed the person who sack him or her.Those are the points made by the ombudsman that I think should be considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 479609,
      "EditedText": "We should have a whip-round."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 479610,
      "EditedText": "We should have a vote of thanks for the convener."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C479611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 479611,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:06."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 479450,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Keith. As this is the first public petition to come before the committee, members have been given a briefing paper. There are other notes from the clerk, which explain the situation of some councils, such as City of Edinburgh Council and Dumfries and Galloway Council. There are also two letters from David Wilson. The petition asks us to consider how councils, rather than Parliament, deal with petitions. Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 479460,
      "EditedText": "I do not see this committee as being second in line for anything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 479461,
      "EditedText": "I certainly hope that we will not be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 479462,
      "EditedText": "We will not be. The minister has made a statement and we will send our report, when it is ready, to Henry McLeish or to Jack McConnell as appropriate. We will listen to what our adviser has to say before reaching conclusions about our position on that matter. When Jack McConnell spoke in Parliament, I did not get the impression that he was pushing us to one side. We have undertaken a piece of work that we will complete and on which we will publish a report with our opinions. Jack and Henry will consider that report as part of their deliberations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 479464,
      "EditedText": "Not yet. I will chase that up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 479465,
      "EditedText": "Four statutory instruments are before us today. Members should all have received an e-mail asking whether any clarification was needed. If there is no need for clarification, I shall ask the committee to agree that we have no comment to make on those instruments. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 479466,
      "EditedText": "It is agreed that the committee has no comment to make on the four Scottish statutory instruments.Frederick Marks is due to give evidence at 2 pm. The clerks will find out whether he is here yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 479468,
      "EditedText": "Johann Lamont could ask one of her labyrinthine questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 479479,
      "EditedText": "I open up the meeting for questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 479484,
      "EditedText": "You have said that the proposals for appointment of the chief investigating officer and the members of the commission are fundamentally flawed. How should they be appointed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 479489,
      "EditedText": "That would be fine if I could think of a resolution to the problem. If each of the two posts has independence to arrive at their own conclusions after they have made an investigation, there is a problem if they come to different conclusions. We have a limited experience of co-operation with other bodies. For instance, matters come before me that are also of interest to the Accounts Commission. They are dealt with in the way that I have described, by mutual discussion and agreement as to who does what, and when, and as to how we integrate our activities. That approach means that the kind of conflict that we have been discussing will be less likely. Normally, the Accounts Commission deals with financial matters and I deal with administrative matters. Those do not naturally conflict. The real problem with the proposals before us is that the chief investigating officer and I would be considering the same facts and the same question of whether there had been a breach of the code. It is possible that we could come to different conclusions.If the two posts are to be created to do the two tasks, there is the possibility of conflict. If we both examine the same facts and come to the same conclusion that there has or has not been a breach, there is no problem. It is only if we come to different conclusions that there is a problem, and I hope that that would be a fairly remote possibility. If that happened, I am sure that I or my successor in office would feel that we had come the right conclusion; no doubt the holder of the other post would think the same."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 479499,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is a very unsatisfactory arrangement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 479506,
      "EditedText": "No—apart from judicial review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 479509,
      "EditedText": "On the first page of your notes, you say that there should be a single code of conduct that would apply to all elected members—does that proposal include MSPs and MPs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 479510,
      "EditedText": "No. My comment was made in the context of the draft bill and therefore it refers to members of local authorities and, if the code is to be extended, of other public bodies. Earlier, it was proposed that local authorities might adopt individual codes, but that could result in one authority having a different standard from other authorities, which would be inappropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 479512,
      "EditedText": "I always touch wood when I say this: so far, and as far as I am aware, none of the decisions of the Scottish local government ombudsman has ever been judicially reviewed. While it has been threatened once or twice, it has not happened in Scotland, although some of the activities of the English commissioners have been the subject of judicial review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 479520,
      "EditedText": "As I said earlier, the important part of the exercise is to bring the facts into the public arena. I regard the sentencing part of it as being of less importance.I will share a story with you. I have the unfortunate distinction of having been physically assaulted in my office by a councillor whom the courts subsequently fined. At the next election, his majority increased. Laughter. That is local democracy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee (Accounts Commission): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 479527,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. The member of the commission who was due to accompany me was substituting for the commission's chairman, who is also indisposed. I am getting a bit concerned, although I am feeling fine at the moment. However, we would have liked very much to have had a member of the commission present today, out of courtesy to the committee, and I apologise.I have circulated to members an outline of what I propose to say. I will give a brief presentation and will then be happy to answer questions.The Accounts Commission was established in 1975, when the regional and island district councils were created. The commission's original remit was the audit of local government only. In 1995, its remit was extended to include the audit of national health service bodies. I have provided a leaflet, which gives a quick guide to the commission, that I thought members might find useful. Members of the commission are appointed by Scottish ministers. The commission then appoints a controller of audit, which is a separate statutory office.The commission secures the audit of all Scottish councils and joint boards, as well as NHS trusts and health boards. It does that by appointing auditors to each of the bodies; the auditors report to the controller of audit, who has the duty of reporting to the commission. The total funds under audit are in the region of £12 billion a year. Half the auditors are directly employed staff and half are appointed firms of accountants.When the controller of audit makes a statutory report on a matter arising from the audit, the commission has the power to conduct hearings and to make recommendations. I will come to that process in greater detail in a moment or two.Other functions of the commission include carrying out and reporting on value-for-money studies, the publication of performance information in local government—the annual statistics—and work on management arrangements that contribute to the best-value agenda.The most recent development that affects the organisational structure of the commission is the provision in the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill—which has completed stage 3 in Parliament—for the creation of a new body, which will be called Audit Scotland. The commission will continue to exist as a board and will perform its functions in local government, but the staff of the commission will merge with the staff of the National Audit Office in Scotland to create a single body that will carry out auditing work across the public sector.We are grateful for the invitation to speak about the bill. The commission has been involved in discussions since the Nolan committee investigation into local government, to which the commission gave evidence when the committee was in Edinburgh. Subsequently, the commission commented on the Government's proposals, in particular the consultation paper on the new ethical framework.We welcome the emphasis that is being put on propriety and conduct in local government and Scottish public life in general, as well as the proposals for the new ethical framework. The commission's view is that the general standards of stewardship and financial management in local government and the NHS in Scotland are high. The commission believes that that is a tribute to the ethical and proper conduct of councillors, board members and officers in a range of public bodies. However, that does not mean that there are no examples of improper conduct or poor stewardship. There is, therefore, a need for a robust system to deal with instances of failure. While we do not perceive there to be a general problem, we believe that a process is needed.One of the essential elements of the public audit model applied by the commission is an objective external regime that can report in public. We are pleased to note that the bill provides for such a system. Given that there are only 32 Scottish councils—compared with the situation south of the border—which have all their functions in common, there is a strong argument for having one national code of conduct and one process for policing it. There are one or two practical concerns about the implementation of the regime, but they do not detract from our general position of support for the proposals.The commission has argued consistently for a review of the code of conduct governing councillors' behaviour; the proposals in the bill are therefore welcome. The number and nature of Scottish councils provide good reasons for having one code of conduct that applies to all councillors. We will be happy to be part of the consultation process for the development of such a code.It is important for councillors to have a single source of clear advice. At the moment, it is not particularly helpful that the sources of advice range across acts of Parliament, national codes and local codes produced by individual councils. We welcome the approach and general principles that are set out in the consultation paper. In particular, we welcome the emphasis on the duty to uphold the law, questions of propriety and accountability, the stewardship of public funds and honesty in relation to interest. Those are all areas in which the commission has an interest.We welcome the idea that there should be a single source of comprehensive guidance on declaration of interests, which can be a difficult area for councillors and members of public bodies. For many of them, that issue is not at the forefront of their minds and the need to declare an interest may arise rarely, if at all, during their period of public office. It is not something that they necessarily deal with daily. It is particularly helpful, therefore, for the advice and rules to be clearly expressed and easily available from one source. The current regime is complex and sometimes difficult to interpret.I said that I would go into greater detail about the Accounts Commission's reporting process, which may be of interest in the context of the standards commission. Each local authority and health body has an auditor, who is appointed by the commission and performs the role of external auditor. The auditor's work includes consideration of value for money, propriety and legality, which are part of the public audit model; that gives the auditor a wider remit than would be expected for auditing a commercial public limited company. It is not just a question of checking that the figures add up.The Accounts Commission appoints each auditor and has an independent statutory officer, called the controller of audit, who reports to the commission. The controller of audit produces different types of reports. Some are general reports about issues that have arisen in all, or a number of, local authorities, for example the annual overview of local authority accounts. Sometimes reports are produced in the public interest, because the controller of audit believes that something—which is not necessarily improper or illegal—needs to be brought to the public's attention. Finally, there are special reports, which the controller of audit produces when he takes the view that something illegal has happened, or when there has been a loss of public funds due to negligence or misconduct. In any of those circumstances, the controller picks up from the auditor's activities and makes a formal report to the commission.The commission then has the power to hold a hearing. Given that a special report can lead to surcharge, the affected parties involved have rights and can require a hearing to be held. The hearings are held in public, in the area of the local authority concerned.The procedure at hearings is designed to be relatively informal—the commission decides on the procedure, as there are no statutory rules on how hearings should proceed—while protecting the rights of the individuals involved. The hearings do not operate as a court—there is no prosecution and defence. Through a process of questioning by Accounts Commission members, the procedure is designed to establish the facts to the satisfaction of the commission and to give the individuals involved the opportunity to express their point of view on the controller's report. After the hearing, the Accounts Commission has the power to make recommendations, either to councils or to Scottish ministers. In the case of special reports, it is possible for the commission to recommend surcharge of members or officers, which can be put into effect only if the minister makes an order.In the case of special reports, if a point of law arises, there is a statutory power for the Accounts Commission to state a case to the Court of Session. As with other institutions, it is possible for individuals to seek a judicial review of the commission's proceedings. That is a different process from that in England and Wales, where it is the individual auditor of the council who conducts hearings and makes decisions on surcharge. We believe that the Scottish system avoids the difficulty that has been described south of the border as the auditor acting as prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner all in one. Under the Scottish system, there is a clear separation of the investigative and the decision-making roles. When the controller of audit makes a report to the Accounts Commission, they drop out of the process of advising the commission; as its secretary, I advise the commission. The commission has made a practice of ensuring that its secretary has a legal qualification, to enable it to take advice as the process goes forward. I hope that that description is helpful. Regarding the standards commission proposals in the bill, many of the features of the commission are similar to those of the Accounts Commission, but there are differences. The members of the Accounts Commission and of the standards commission will be appointed by ministers. They will have a separate statutory investigating officer, who will make formal reports. The chief investigating officer role is similar to the role of controller of audit, although matters will come to their attention through different routes. The controller of audit draws from the audit process and, presumably, the chief investigating officer will draw from complaints. The standards commission may hold hearings in a similar way to the Accounts Commission, and will also be subject to judicial review. As far as the differences are concerned, it is interesting to note that the bill provides for the standards commission to appoint its chief investigating officer, but the consultation paper says that that is likely to change to a position where that appointment will be made by the Executive. That is different from the Accounts Commission, where the controller of audit is appointed by the commission itself. Another significant difference is that the standards commission will be given power to impose sanctions directly on councillors, whereas the Accounts Commission makes recommendations only to Scottish ministers. The rationale for the Accounts Commission position is that the ultimate decision is made by a democratically accountable minister. We have also noticed that, under the law of defamation, the standards commission and the chief investigating officer and their staff are to be given absolute privilege. That is similar to the protection given to the ombudsman, but is lacking for the Accounts Commission and its employees. You might regard that as a marker—obviously, it is not a matter for this bill. The other difference is that the funds for the standards commission will be provided by ministers, whereas the Accounts Commission is funded by a levy on the bodies that it audits. Those bodies pay an audit fee, depending on the activity that is undertaken. Our main detailed concern about the proposals is that a multiplicity of agencies will be involved in the process. That might lead to intervention by different agencies in the same situation. There might be an investigation by the ombudsman, in which the standards commission, with its chief investigating officer, and the Accounts Commission, with its controller of audit, are involved. It is conceivable that the police might also be involved, either under the existing law or under the proposed new offence of misuse of public office. We all understand that when the field of play is crowded with players, it can lead to some confusion. That is perhaps more true if the field is overcrowded with referees.Another concern related to the potential overlap of jurisdiction is that separate agencies investigating the same set of facts might reach a different conclusion. There may well be good reasons for that happening, but the public might perceive that there is some confusion in the way in which the matter is dealt with. Under existing arrangements, there is already the potential for that to happen. By and large, the various agencies deal with that by good communication and by co-ordination of their activities. We do not think that that needs to be solved in the legislation. We are likely to suggest that there ought to be a clear understanding—perhaps a protocol—among all the agencies involved. Clearly, their independent judgment has to be left untrammelled, but it should be possible to reach an understanding with the various agencies about conducting investigations together, thereby not imposing an undue burden on those who are being investigated. Subject to those practical issues, which we still need to work through, the Accounts Commission welcomes the clear emphasis that is being placed on propriety and conduct in public service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 479528,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. We will open the discussion for questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 479529,
      "EditedText": "You probably heard my question to Mr Marks about surcharge. In the local government bill that is going through down south, surcharge is being removed. Does the Accounts Commission have a view about whether it should be removed in Scotland, addressed in the bill or extended to all public bodies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 479530,
      "EditedText": "No, the commission does not have a view on that. Its position has consistently been that if there is to be an alternative to surcharge, it ought to be ready and put in place before surcharge is abolished. The commission believes that surcharge is an effective deterrent that is seldom used. The commission is not expressing a view on the merits of surcharge. We understand the difficulties that people have with it. Much of the criticism has been based on criticism of the process—particularly in England and Wales—rather than the outcome. It should be borne in mind that if surcharge is to be replaced by the new offence of misuse of public office, it is still the intention, as I understand it, that there will be compensation or recovery orders for someone convicted of such an offence. The idea of restitution of public funds that have been lost through a person's incompetence, negligence and so on will still be there even if surcharge, in its present state, is abolished."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 479532,
      "EditedText": "It applies to councillors and officers in local government. At one time it was perhaps regarded as an appropriate sanction for councillors because of the democratic way in which they achieve their position. Officers, who are ultimately accountable through the disciplinary process and dismissal, are also subject to the surcharge regime. Surcharge used to be more widespread in the public sector. It was only in the early 1980s that civil servants were removed from the surcharge regime. That was ironic, because the sums involved were likely to be so large that it was unrealistic to expect recovery from individuals. Of course, it was much more widespread throughout the public sector in the early part of this century."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 479534,
      "EditedText": "The proposal to have the appointment made by the Executive is leading in that direction. It is not a terribly cut-and-dried issue for us. You need to remember that the controller of audit, who is appointed by the Accounts Commission, is appointed with the consent of the Executive—with the consent of Scottish ministers. The Accounts Commission appoints its own investigating officer, but the Executive has a role in that appointment. To move to a position in which the Executive appoints both the members and the chief investigating officer is a problem more of perception than of reality. There may well be a perception that it makes the standards commission a creature of the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 479541,
      "EditedText": "In your remarks on the code of conduct, you refer to \"accountability\" and \"stewardship\". On the whole, the ethical framework is about honesty and reflects the position of the Accounts Commission some years ago—although I do not think that that is its position any more. You are concerned that local authorities should not waste money in a legal fashion. Do you think that the commission should be concerned with accountability, as well as honesty—in other words, if a councillor or member of a quango makes decisions that are so daft, despite advice to the contrary, that it is almost criminal, should that be covered? Alternatively, do you think that is okay so long as you believe that the person did not pocket any money themselves, but merely wasted a lot of public money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 479543,
      "EditedText": "I want to build on some of the points that Kenny Gibson was making about political independence from the Executive. The minister appoints members of the Accounts Commission. Is there any suggestion that that has resulted in a lack of independence? I take it from your remarks that you do not think that the independence of the Accounts Commission has been interfered with. If there were any concerns about independence, could they be dealt with adequately through a review of the way in which appointments to public bodies are made, similar to the review that the Minister for Finance has embarked on?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C479548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
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      "EditedText": "The latter, definitely. I do not think that it would be legitimate to say that we ought to attempt to make all the bodies reach the same decision, because they will come at the process from different directions and for different reasons. It is unfortunate, but entirely possible, that the ombudsman might find that there has been no maladministration, and that no one has suffered an injustice, but that the standards commission might find that a councillor has breached the code of conduct. It would be perfectly legitimate for him to reach that conclusion, although it would perhaps be unfortunate from the point of view of public perception.My concern is more with the organisational processes—to ensure that there is not an unnecessary burden on public expenditure and that the individuals who are involved are not over-investigated. It is a question of the timing and the process, rather than the merits of the conclusions."
    },
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  {
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 479550,
      "EditedText": "The answer is yes, thank you. I cannot offer you a concrete example, but people in a position such as that of the Accounts Commission or the controller of audit should be free to express their opinions without fear of the laws on defamation being used against them. At the moment they enjoy qualified privilege, which covers fair comment in the public interest. In order to feel free to speak, regardless of pressure or influence, they should not be made to feel apprehensive that they might be sued for defamation. That protection is afforded to courts, it is afforded to ombudsmen, and it is proposed that it be afforded to the standards commission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 479551,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, even though you do not have it, you approve of the standards commission having it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 479553,
      "EditedText": "If I understood correctly, your commission applies a different standard of proof to surcharge issues from the one that it would apply to a general document about improving an aspect the health service. I am interested in that. People who know about these things have told me that in the police force, for example, the deputy chief constable often disciplines constables based on evidence that is less good than would be required in a court of law. Knowing how hard it can be to prove irregularities of moral behaviour, do you think that the standards commission should accept a lower standard of proof than that required in courts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 479554,
      "EditedText": "The contrast that is normally made is between the standards of proof in criminal and civil cases. The standard of proof in criminal cases is \"beyond reasonable doubt\"; the standard of proof in civil cases is \"on the balance of probabilities\". I do not think that we are dealing with criminality—although we are concerned about the proposed new offence of misuse of public office, which we believe will make criminal offences of things that, at the moment, are dealt with through what is essentially a civil process, in which the standard of proof is \"on the balance of probabilities\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 479555,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much for coming, Mr Magee. I hope that you do not end up being ill, like the rest of your colleagues, and that you have a nice time over Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 479556,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 479557,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matt Smith (Scottish Trades Union Congress): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 479559,
      "EditedText": "Thanks, convener. I thank the committee for the invitation to come here today. This is not the first time that I have been here, but it is my first time in an STUC capacity. The STUC obviously wants to engage in discussion with the committee. You said that we would give a presentation, but I shall make some opening shots and then engage in discussion, which might be more fruitful.We bring apologies from some of our members, particularly our women members. We do not like to appear as a single-gender delegation, but flu and other considerations have meant that that is the case this time. That is why only two of us are here. The others send their apologies.I would like to say at the outset that we are very much part of a consultative process too. We are still engaging many of our affiliates in the discussion, and we have not yet drawn up our final conclusions on several of these issues. We want to take some of the issues back from today's discussion, so that we can engage in further discussion with trades unions—both those that are immediately involved and those that have a wider interest. There are a couple of issues that we want to touch on at this stage.I want to raise a general issue that is perhaps not relevant to this particular paper, but which I want to make. I notice the use of sexist language in the document, when it uses \"he\" and \"him\" in reference to the commissioner. The use of that type of language might be an issue for another committee to consider.We broadly support the idea of a framework in which individuals operate to provide public service. The STUC believes that that is important and has called for it in the past. What is interesting about this document is the uniting of councillors and quango members in the same paper. But for the fact that another paper has been published today on the issue of quangos, we might have wanted to make more comment on that—although we would be willing to address that, if the committee wants to engage us in that discussion. There is a difference that I want to highlight at the outset: the public profile of councillors is somewhat different from that of members of other public bodies. When it is appropriate, the same ground rules should apply right across public service. The difficulty could be the way in which councillors could be challenged when others might not be, on their conduct and other matters. All of you have experience of local government—all of you have that background—and know the type of stories that circulate about elected members. There are few such stories concerning members of other public bodies, although I do not think that there is less to report about those people. The public exposure of councillors, and the fact that what they do is in the public eye, becomes an issue in itself. We must therefore be careful, when dealing with that issue, that we do not deal only with elected members.There is an issue of democracy. Ultimately, the sanction that is imposed on those who are elected is imposed by the electorate. That is quite different from the accountability of those who serve on public bodies and there is a difference in the way in which individuals would be dealt with. It will be possible for councillors to be debarred from office by the proposed commissioners, whereas that will happen to members of public bodies only through ministerial actions. That seems to be the distinction, which is one on which we want to seek the further thoughts of our membership. That is the issue that I want to touch on at the outset. We broadly welcome the idea of a code of conduct—a code of ethics and practice. We want public service to be accountable and we want an ethos in which issues that should be brought to the public attention are. However, we want to avoid frivolous claims and we do not want councillors to be particularly exposed when others—because of the nature of their office—might not be under such scrutiny. I invite Bill to comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 479562,
      "EditedText": "I thank the witnesses for their presentations. We will now have questions from members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 479563,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the potential lack of natural justice in parts of the bill in relation to the absence of an appeals procedure. What do you feel about interim suspensions being given to councillors or other members of public bodies who are being investigated? Should there be a limit on the length of an interim suspension?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matt Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 479564,
      "EditedText": "Suspension should be considered only in extreme cases. An interim suspension should mean that the hearing will be held soon. If there is suspension over a prolonged period, people may start to assume guilt by association, which would be unsatisfactory.Suspension of an elected member is a serious matter. It should happen only in dire situations and it should be dealt with in a short space of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matt Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 479572,
      "EditedText": "Yes, the council should play a part. I always have some difficulty in respect of local government because it differs from other public bodies in that, ultimately, the electorate should determine whether someone should continue in office. It would have to be an extreme case for someone who had been put in place by the electorate to be removed from their position. I have some difficulty with that issue, and have come to no particular conclusion on it. Councils, rather than a commissioner who is one or two steps removed, should have the opportunity to take the decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 479573,
      "EditedText": "I was going to ask a question similar to the one Johann Lamont asked, about councils being continually harassed by members of the public and being able to defend themselves from all sorts of bizarre and outlandish accusations. I am aware of the case of a Labour member in north Glasgow who has been continually harassed by an individual over a long period of time. It appears that there is not a lot that he can do about it.Do you think that MSPs should be included? Do you think that standards committees and the commission should have political balance? I served on the standards committee in Glasgow and we had a rotating chair so that the administration and opposition had the same number of members on the committee and there was never a political majority when decisions were made. I know that Bill would like to pass that question to Matt, but perhaps he can answer it himself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 479575,
      "EditedText": "I also asked about political balance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matt Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 479578,
      "EditedText": "I have never favoured the idea of surcharge—a financial penalty that often goes beyond what a court would impose. That is not the way to deal with misconduct. It is wrong-headed and I would like it to be abolished. It is not a matter on which we have consulted recently, although we have had difficulties with a couple of cases in which it has been applied in the past. I see no case for surcharging in the new system. If someone has committed a terrible breach of trust, removal from office would be a more appropriate penalty than surcharge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 479579,
      "EditedText": "Do you think it is fair that it applies only to councillors and council employees, rather than to people in other public sector bodies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 479581,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in what you said about the other committee—which will remain nameless—that wants to encourage more people to get involved in local government. Perhaps it is because I have an old, headmasterly interest in punishment that I noted your comment that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 479584,
      "EditedText": "The members on this committee are terrible.What kind of non-draconian punishment would deter councillors from misbehaving and be publicly perceived as an appropriate punishment? The matter is not as academic as it seems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Speirs: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 479585,
      "EditedText": "It certainly is not. I would have thought that the ultimate sanction of being disqualified from public office is pretty draconian for someone involved in the public policy process. However, that should not deter people from standing for councils, as no one does so expecting to be disqualified for malpractice.Perhaps the matter becomes more difficult when we take a step back. As far as possible, punishment should be more political than financial, with censures being passed and the public being made aware of them. There should be a requirement for any councillor who has been censured by the commission to register that in any publicity if he or she stands for office again. It has to be said that the sanctions recommended in the consultation, such as suspending councillors from committees while allowing them to operate as councillors, hit constituents instead of the individual councillor. We are looking for political punishments for political offences. People who breach criminal law should be dealt with by criminal law. As a natural liberal, I have no difficulty with people receiving heavy punishment if they abuse public office to that extent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Speirs: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 479590,
      "EditedText": "I will concentrate on the first couple of questions. When Scottish Enterprise and the LEC network were established it was our view that it was not appropriate to constitute LECs as limited companies, and we have never changed our position on that. It is argued, of course, that measures cannot be extended to LECs because they are covered by company law. Corporate governance could be revisited—the Cadbury commission was some time ago—but that issue is perhaps not within the remit of this committee.A separate exercise on the future of Scottish Enterprise and the LECs is under way. If we stick with the present structure, we will want certain requirements of conduct to be written into the procedures for determining LEC budgets. There should, possibly, be requirements for openness and for open meetings, although probably one would find that about three minutes of meetings would be open, and the rest would be covered by commercial confidentiality.I am not aware whether the issue of councillors as employees has been tested in the courts. I know that there is a case relating to job-sharing and candidacy for this Parliament going through the tribunal system. Of course, at the heart of that case is the question whether being a MSP is a job, in the sense of being covered by employment legislation. I have a great deal of sympathy for the proposition of being able to job-share the position of member of Parliament. However, I am quite clear—and I think that the Scottish Trades Union Congress takes this position—that we are going down a dangerous road if, as happened in the tribunal on women-only shortlists, it is accepted that being an elected representative is a job like any other. One is getting into very odd territory there. Specific legislation should give councillors, MSPs and MPs the same rights and terms as other employees in areas such as pensions, superannuation, and health and safety, but not over unfair dismissal—otherwise some interesting cases might run for a long time, in which the electorate is sued for unfair dismissal. There might have to be a test case for councillors.Matters are much more clear-cut for people on quangos. Positions are advertised with payment of £5,000 a year, or whatever, and people apply and go through a recruitment procedure. If it is decided that they have not behaved properly, they are removed and they lose that £5,000 a year. Knowing what good employment lawyers there are in Scotland, I suspect that a case could be taken through the employment tribunal system. It will be important that, whatever the committee decides, the draftspeople ensure that the legislation is tight enough to avoid such situations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 479592,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in your distinction between a person who is elected and is ultimately answerable to the electorate, and a person who is not. We must deal with a lack of public confidence, for example, in cases where someone who has been elected in the past six months breaks the code but continues working for another three years before the electorate can make a judgment on them. Perhaps if someone who wants to stand for election has been guilty of a breach of contract they should be sanctioned by having to include something about that in their election address. What is said in the public domain will affect the public's attitude to such people.If the breach of the code is very serious, do you think that people should be forced to put themselves up for election while the matter is current? If there is no immediate sanction—because ultimately councillors will be answerable to the electorate—there might be a loss of confidence. Should there be an interim debarment that would not prevent them from standing in an election, but would prevent them from participating in the council? The difficulty would be that some people would not be represented on their council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matt Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 479593,
      "EditedText": "I had not thought of the proposal to force someone to seek re-election. That is an option, but it is fraught with difficulties.We are talking up an issue that might not be as bad as we suggest. I imagine that the number of cases that are serious enough to be affected by the proposed arrangements will not be large. We are tending to look at examples where we are unhappy about what people have done, even though they have not breached major codes of conduct—perhaps we do not like decisions that have been taken and so on. There is a danger of overemphasising the outcome of the proposal. The number of opportunities for re-election will be few and far between and I do not think that we should go down that road."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 479594,
      "EditedText": "I agree. I would not like the message to go out that the major thrust of this committee's concern about local government is ethical standards, simply because we have to consider this bill. We always try to send out a clear message that we are committed to local government as the front line in delivering services to people and we want to play a supportive role in that. Nevertheless, in examining a bill such as this, we have to explore those questions. You are right that, although the issue is significant, in the broader picture it is almost marginal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 479606,
      "EditedText": "I think that we want to clarify, where possible, the remit of the various bodies. The last thing that we want is continuous overlap, which obfuscates the entire process. I think that we need an element of protection for public servants. The last thing that we want when the bill is passed is an avalanche of unsustainable complaints made for malicious reasons. We need to clarify who will carry out the sentences that are passed. We will need political balance, between administration and non-administration members in local authorities. That will ensure that the public has faith in what is happening.I agree with much of what has been said by other members, in particular with Bristow Muldoon: we need to extend the legislation to cover LECs. I would dispute what Bill Speirs said: I think that we have to include MSPs in the legislation to avoid ending up in a position in which it is a matter of \"do what I say\" rather than \"do what I do\". As Bristow said, it is also important to have an appeals procedure and, as Gil Paterson said, to consider interim suspensions. I had not thought of hung councils. Keith Harding made a valid point about that. If we come up with other ideas, I hope that we can submit them to you over the next few days, convener, rather than just coming up with things here and now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 12956,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 479447,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 13:33"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 479448,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is a petition—do any members need to declare an interest in this matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 479449,
      "EditedText": "I must register my interest as a former member of Stirling District Council and a current member of Stirling Council. I will not take part in the debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12957,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 479451,
      "EditedText": "I have a general comment. As Parliament has regulated the procedure for dealing with petitions, it might be a good idea for us to consider creating a similar mechanism for councils. Some councils have limited procedures that they operate from time to time, while other councils have no procedure at all. We would be doing a great public service if we could produce or recommend a system to deal with petitions.The letter from David Wilson included a complaint that time is wasted because there are often campaigns of petitions—several petitions on the same subject. If we had a system in place for dealing with them, the public would be aware that there is an appropriate procedure for presenting petitions. I would hate to be a council official faced with several petitions that must be progressed. The documents that we are considering might lead us towards production of a formalised system for the whole country. I welcome that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 479453,
      "EditedText": "If we are to have a democratic process, the importance of the democratic participation that is represented by petitions—many of us have been involved in a petition at one time or another—must be recognised. From Mr Wilson's letter, it appears that Stirling Council completely ignores petitions—that is not a tenable position. Regardless of the outcome of a petition, it should, at least, be registered that a petition was submitted and the opinions in it should be made known."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 479454,
      "EditedText": "We should ask COSLA to comment on the matter. It is clear from the evidence before us that there is no standard throughout Scotland and, in the long run, it would be sensible to pursue that. We could ask COSLA for its opinion. It might have more information on how councils deal with petitions; there appear to be marked differences in the ways in which councils deal with petitions and that is unfair.Does the committee agree?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 479458,
      "EditedText": "We now move to the next item on our agenda—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association)",
      "HeadingID": 12957,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12957,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 479463,
      "EditedText": "I certainly hope that that will be the case. Have you had a response to the letter that you sent to Jack McConnell?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 479469,
      "EditedText": "If Mr Marks is not here, we shall have to suspend the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 479470,
      "EditedText": "Does anybody know why Frank McAveety does not have his specs on in the photograph in the standards in public life document? Perhaps that is part of his image remake."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 479471,
      "EditedText": "You realise that this chit-chat will get me into trouble with the Presiding Officer. The official reporters are writing everything down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 479472,
      "EditedText": "Yes, they are terrible for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12958,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 12958,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 479474,
      "EditedText": "We should suspend the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 479480,
      "EditedText": "I will ask two questions that are closely related. On the adjudication of the standards commission, you point out that there is an anomaly in how elected and appointed members are dealt with. I understand where you are coming from on that, but we are concerned about your suggested solution that the final decision be made by the council. Is there not a danger that such a decision would become a party political issue in the council? Colleagues of the member against whom action had been recommended might wish to defend their colleague and not accept the recommendation of the standards commission.Secondly, I wish to ask about the appeals procedure. As it stands, there is no provision in the bill for an appeals procedure for elected members who are found to have breached the code. Should such an appeals procedure be incorporated in the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 479482,
      "EditedText": "I will ask a brief supplementary question. In effect, disqualifying and debarring a councillor from office is the same as dismissing someone from a job. In the employment arena, someone who is dismissed can take their case to an industrial tribunal to try to overturn the decision. Also, most companies probably have internal appeals procedures. I am not sure that a judicial review is an adequate form of appeal, as it can be very expensive, so a person seeking judicial review would need to be pretty sure of success."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 479490,
      "EditedText": "So you would agree to disagree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 479492,
      "EditedText": "The matter is not then resolved. Could there be a way of reaching a final decision under such circumstances on who would be right or wrong?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 479496,
      "EditedText": "What you have said is helpful. I had not grasped this. You think that the standards commission, as well as the chief investigating officer, needs staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 479497,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 479498,
      "EditedText": "The proposal that you have presented seems to be that the staff are seconded civil servants. From what you have said, I take it that you are not enthusiastic about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 479507,
      "EditedText": "Am I right to say that you have made your decisions known to councils, which have accepted the decision but not acted on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 479511,
      "EditedText": "How many of your decisions have been judicially reviewed? Were any overturned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 479517,
      "EditedText": "Earlier, you said that this is all about justice being seen to be done. I can see where you are coming from, but if the public are convinced that their local councillors are a bunch of bandits—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 479519,
      "EditedText": "I know they should, and we will try to give them a decent voting system so that they can do that.Do you think that leaving the decision to the council satisfies the desire to make the public believe in local democracy? You could argue both ways: it could strengthen local democracy or it could weaken local democracy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frederick Marks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 479522,
      "EditedText": "As I said, I may have discussions with the Accounts Commission on funding. If it would be helpful, I could make a further submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 479526,
      "EditedText": "Bill Magee has joined us. We are sorry to hear that John Mullin, who was going to accompany him, is not well today.Before we start, I want to say for the record that the room is extremely cold. One member, who shall remain nameless, is sitting with a coat over her knees. If it gets any colder, I will have to abandon the meeting—we will hold it outside, where it is probably warmer.Thank you for coming, Mr Magee. You have been sitting in the room for a few minutes, so you know the format. I ask you to give your presentation, following which we will ask you questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 479538,
      "EditedText": "Our principal concern is with there being so many referees on the field and the possibility that one set of circumstances might have to be investigated by up to four different agencies. I appreciate that all those agencies will be approaching the investigation from different standpoints, but to those being investigated—and, perhaps, in the public perception—it might appear that a multiplicity of agencies is involved. That is a practical problem, as much as anything else. As Frederick Marks was saying earlier, we face it from time to time in the present set of arrangements and we find ways of coping with it. All that we are saying is that we need to acknowledge that it is an issue and to ensure that we put in place arrangements to cope with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 479539,
      "EditedText": "Could you describe briefly how you cope with it, so that the public perception is not confused by the multiplicity of referees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 479549,
      "EditedText": "When you were comparing and contrasting the Accounts Commission with the proposed standards commission, you said that the standards commission would have protection under the laws on defamation that you do not have. Would it be helpful for you to have similar protection and, if so, could you give us an example of how it would be helpful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Magee: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 479552,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Speirs (Scottish Trades Union Congress): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 479560,
      "EditedText": "We will make written submissions and we are in the process of consulting widely with our affiliates, so Matt's comments are preliminary remarks based on our general approach to standards in public life. I will highlight a couple of issues on which we have concerns or are unclear about how the procedure will operate. The first is whether paid posts on public bodies might be considered areas of employment. How would that relate to the employment tribunal and employment appeal tribunal systems? If someone were being removed, or dealt with in some other way in relation to a paid post, there is potential for either confusion or a clash between the systems. The committee should perhaps examine that further.We are concerned that there does not seem to be an appeals procedure in the proposed structure. As matters in relation to natural justice have come up recently, we think that there might be criticism that natural justice is not being allowed if there is no appeals procedure. Matt touched on the scrutiny to which councillors are subjected. Wearing another hat, I am a member of the renewing local democracy working group, or perhaps it is a task force—I can never remember which. It is considering a number of issues. It would be wrong for me to say anything that comes directly from that group, but I would not be giving anything away if I said the view across the parties represented on it is that public service must be reinvigorated to encourage people to stand for election as councillors. It may not be fashionable, but it is important that whatever the outcome of the consultation and whatever shape the bill takes, the way councillors are dealt with must not be so draconian that people are further deterred from taking part in the political process and seeking public office. The appeals procedure could be important in ensuring that people feel that they are being treated fairly.Another issue on which we are asking questions rather than making proposals is the extent to which there is a limit to the aspects of public service and public bodies that the bill will cover. For example, college councils and university courts take important decisions that often involve public money. They are involved in employment procedures. The conduct of people who serve on those bodies is every bit as important as the conduct of someone who serves on a health board. It may be suggested that the difference is whether it is a ministerial appointment, but some people who come on to those bodies are nominated by organisations rather than put on by ministerial appointment. The scope of the bill should be widened. The way in which public appointments are made may be a separate issue, but an aspect of appointments is relevant to this bill. In relation to public bodies—as opposed to councillors—it is proposed that the nominating organisation will have responsibility for implementing any action that may be recommended by the investigating officer or the commission. That highlights the important role that can be played by a procedure in which people are nominated by other bodies. The STUC has representation on 148 organisations of one kind or another in Scotland. We take seriously any complaint about the way in which anyone we have nominated operates—it can be as basic as not turning up for meetings. That is one of the reasons we are concerned—although we know that this is done under the Nolan procedures—that so many bodies are now filled by public advertisement and ministerial appointment. Putting an advert in the pages of The Scotsman and The Herald and calling it public recruitment seems inadequate. We believe that nomination and accountability fit in with the approach that is being taken in improving standards in public life.Those are the main points that we want to make at the moment. The remit of the legislation could perhaps be extended to cover other areas of importance in the political process, such as the fourth estate. Setting up ethical standards for newspaper editors might be useful as well, although perhaps that would be a step too far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 479561,
      "EditedText": "It is nice to meet a dreamer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Speirs: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 479566,
      "EditedText": "We must give that matter further consideration. For the same reason that there should be an appeals procedure, our initial thought is that it should be separated from the structures of the investigatory process. Otherwise, we will run into the difficulty of the people who are doing the investigation also being involved in judging the appeal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matt Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 479568,
      "EditedText": "When a claim is made, the issue is who decides whether it is frivolous. The code of conduct may give guidance on that issue. As Bill Speirs said, we have not gone into detail with our affiliates on this matter yet. I would have thought that we want a preliminary stage in the process to allow a low-key inquiry before any formal procedure. That would sift out frivolous claims.One way to make public bodies more open is to pass their responsibilities to open public bodies such as local government. McIntosh made some recommendations about passing back to the public arena the powers of some of those agencies. A classic example of that would be the water industry. Some people are of the view that water should have remained in local government and should be returned to local government.Where it is not possible to transfer responsibilities, and where there continue to be quangos or other bodies, the rules of openness and accountability should be clear and should apply unless there are good reasons for an issue to be taken in private—for example, those affecting members of staff or commercial confidentiality. However, in all other instances there should be openness. The type of openness we expect from government, and which this Parliament is all about, should be applied across public services and public agencies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.566086+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matt Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 479580,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it should apply to anybody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12959,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 479583,
      "EditedText": "He is talking about his private life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 479586,
      "EditedText": "Some of the sources of complaints are officers and employees of public bodies and councils. Is the current policy on so-called whistleblowers adequate, or should the bill specifically protect such employees, who might well be the best source of information about malpractice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matt Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 479588,
      "EditedText": "There are already procedures in a number of organisations, particularly in local government, for employees to make complaints confidentially.The possibility that employees will use those procedures to make frivolous complaints is far less than the possibility that such complaints will be received from the general public. Employees use those procedures because they feel that information that they have has to be put into the public domain, but fear the consequences of doing so. Their complaints are different from frivolous complaints from members of the public, but I agree with Bill Speirs that ethical standards legislation should parallel legislation on whistleblowing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Speirs: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 479597,
      "EditedText": "We welcome the section of the bill that repeals section 2A of the Local Government Act 1986, because of the difficulties that teachers and others have encountered in dealing with homophobic bullying in schools. We believe that people are equal, regardless of their sexual orientation. It is disappointing to find that church leaders are so preoccupied with how people love one another in a world in which people kill one another in the name of religion—that seems bizarre. It is an interesting new Scotland in which the Catholic Church and the Free Church of Scotland are issuing joint letters, but that is another matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 479598,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, for your evidence. You have made a very worthwhile contribution to our work.We now move on to consider the issues raised by the bill so that we can produce a report. I suggest that members take this opportunity to let me know which issues must be flagged up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 479600,
      "EditedText": "Please could you speak a little louder?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 479601,
      "EditedText": "Of course. We should also consider extending the legislation to deal with other public bodies, such as college boards and LECs. We might want some explanation as to why that was not thought to be appropriate. The majority of the submissions that we have received give the bill a broad welcome and our report should reflect the support for the general principles of the bill. I suspect that that will be mirrored in the written responses that we receive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 479602,
      "EditedText": "I would like to raise the issue of interim suspensions, which seems to be extremely draconian. Like councillors, we are all elected, and should know that the adverse publicity stirred up by a suspension—particularly if someone is innocent—would be very difficult. We must consider that carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 479603,
      "EditedText": "One matter which has to be addressed but which did not come up in the evidence is hung councils. In Stirling Council for example, the balance is 11:11. If a member is suspended, that might mean that the administration cannot deliver its policies. The other issue that I want to discuss was raised by the health boards: that they have non-executive and executive directors. The current rule applies only to those who have been appointed by the minister. The paid executive directors still take all the decisions—they are equally responsible. I do not know how that factor can be taken into account. The other matter that I have been pursuing all along is the question of removing surcharge. I would like the Executive to do that. I think that it is totally unfair that it applies only to councils. If that can be removed down south, I do not understand why it cannot be removed up here in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 479605,
      "EditedText": "I want to mention another point made by the ombudsman, about the breadth of sanctions. I accept what Keith Harding has said about the removal of surcharge, but we could investigate how to allow the people concerned a wider scope of sanction compared to those who have been found to be offenders. That was a good point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 479607,
      "EditedText": "Is there anything else that members wish to raise here and now?I take it that when members go away today, they might think about things that were discussed last week or, when they read the Official Report for this week's meeting, they might find that they wish to add something. Please pass that on to me or to Eugene Windsor. My proposal would be to put all those comments into a letter to Frank McAveety. Frank agreed this morning to come to our meeting on the afternoon of 17 January, which is a Monday. Richard Kerley is coming that day as well. I am sorry that that is an extra meeting, but there is a time limit on the bill, and we move into stage 1 in the new year. Eugene will let members know the exact time for the start of the committee that afternoon. I imagine that it will be about 2 o'clock. It will be important to hear how far down the road Richard Kerley is with his deliberations. After that, Frank will be at the meeting. By then, he will have had the letter with our comments, and will be answering the points that we make to him. We will discuss with him what he sees as acceptable or not. Please note that we have another meeting the next day. The Local Government Committee meets on Tuesday 18th and I cannot remember what we are doing that day. Interruption. I have been reminded that we are considering the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill. That will be another important meeting. We may find, like other committees, that, as we proceed further with legislation, we will have to add the occasional extra committee meeting. I try to avoid that, but it sometimes becomes impossible. We need to report back on the McIntosh report probably around the middle or end of February. We have a lot of work to do.I do not think that I have forgotten anything. Having said that, we can now go and have a glass of wine and a mince pie at half past four instead of five o'clock. Have a nice time and enjoy your break, all of you. It would be nice if you could come across the road to the members' lounge and have a drink. It is on me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2705
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12959,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 12959,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 479608,
      "EditedText": "We will definitely go over there in that case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5817103+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 420309,
      "EditedText": "So, prior to that, no consideration was given to taking funds from the prison reserves or piggy-bank?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 420315,
      "EditedText": "I will put it to him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 420317,
      "EditedText": "That is a straightforward answer to a straightforward question.I was interested in what you said, Mr Wallace, about prison officers being at the core of the workings of the prison system. I refer you to the evidence that we took on 23 November from Derek Turner of the Scottish Prison Officers Association, which appears at column 467 of the Official Report, and on 1 December from the Prison Staff Association. The representatives of both associations made it plain that the staff are devastated. In fact, they used exactly the same language. Given that that is the position of the prisons' operational staff, how do you plan to tackle restoring trust and morale in the Scottish Prison Service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 420328,
      "EditedText": "Will there be a change in the training programme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 420338,
      "EditedText": "You may disagree with it, but that was the evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 11226,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11226,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 420246,
      "EditedText": "I have been invited back to the bureau yet again on 11 January to discuss what will happen at stage 2. Those issues will therefore remain live."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 420247,
      "EditedText": "I turn now to today's witnesses. I thank the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice for joining us today. This meeting was originally scheduled for tomorrow but, as a result of the Parliamentary Bureau decision to extend parliamentary business tomorrow morning, there had to be some hasty reorganisation, so I thank him and his office for accommodating that change. It is only with a great deal of to-ing and fro-ing and co-operation that we have been able to secure the minister's attendance this afternoon.Members will note that the minister is accompanied by Tony Cameron, the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service. Should we stray into operational matters, Mr Cameron will be able to answer questions on those matters for which the minister does not have day-to-day responsibility. The other gentleman accompanying Mr Wallace is Michael Kellet, the minister's private secretary. He does not intend to answer any questions today, but it is he who has helped to organise today's proceedings, so we thank him.Mr Wallace, will you make a short opening statement on prisons? For the benefit of the committee, you could focus on what the money diverted from the Scottish Prison Service budget will be spent on in other parts of the justice programme, as there appears to be some confusion about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 420258,
      "EditedText": "In September, slopping out was a priority for the Prison Service. Now, in December, it does not appear to be so. In September, there was a predicted end date for slopping out. In December, we do not have one. Those changes are a direct result of the cuts, are they not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 420261,
      "EditedText": "It is one of the results. We do not yet know what the position is. That will depend on decisions that are still to be taken with regard to the future shape of the prison estate and on prisoner numbers. Progress can still be made towards the ending of slopping out, but I will not pretend that there is still a predicted end date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 420249,
      "EditedText": "We will only reach that if we have time. We may run out of time. I understand, minister, that you are tied to 4.30 pm. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C420251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 420251,
      "EditedText": "Minister, when we were taking evidence—you have alluded to that evidence today, although the situation is slightly different from what we were lead to believe—we saw figures that suggested that there would be an increase in prison numbers over the next couple of years, and then a levelling off at a figure that is higher than the current prison population.Although I take your point that the Executive is exploring a number of alternatives to custody—and I heartily endorse that because we, as a society, lock up far too many people as it is—can you square the statement that you have just made with what we heard in evidence last month: that there is likely to be an increase in prison numbers at a time when we are reducing the capacity of prisons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 420255,
      "EditedText": "Let me make it clear. The announcement does not make overcrowding significantly more likely. Taking into account the nature of the prisons which are earmarked for closure and the security category of prisoners likely to go into them, there is excess capacity in the system, as was demonstrated when the number reached a high earlier this year. If capacity problems emerge, they are more likely to concern the higher-security prisons. It is important to point out that the capital programme for the Scottish Prison Service has not been cut. There are new developments at Perth prison and Polmont young offenders institution.The estates review will be more properly unveiled later this week. The prison estate will be examined to find out where it is possible to refurbish and where it is possible to have new build within existing perimeters. That review is proceeding. It is right for the Prison Service to examine its estate and work out where improvements can best be made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C420256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 420256,
      "EditedText": "We were concerned to hear that the proposal to phase out slopping out is to be a casualty of the cuts—or the apparent reduction in the overall budget. Do you have any comments on that, minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 420257,
      "EditedText": "We all agree that we wish to see the end of slopping out. It had been an aspiration that that could be done by 2005. It could be that, as a result of the announcements, that date is set back. I accept that possibility, which depends on a number of factors. One such factor will be the outcome of the prison estates review. Another is whether new halls are built or existing halls are refurbished. Linked to that is the question of whether there will be any increase in prisoner numbers.The factor that could determine the question of slopping out is not that there is a reduction in the budget—that the £13 million end-year flexibility has been removed—but that, if existing halls are refurbished instead of new halls being built, the decanting of prisoners pending the completion of that work is made more difficult if the number of prisoners increases. Clearly, decanting prisoners becomes easier if a new block is built. It is impossible at this stage to give a prediction. I share with the committee the wish for slopping out to end as soon as is practically possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 420262,
      "EditedText": "With respect, minister, you have already said to us that the closure decisions that are a result of the cuts were made on the basis of your as yet unfounded assumptions of declining prisoner numbers. We have had evidence that prisoner numbers will rise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 420263,
      "EditedText": "I have said that predicting prisoner numbers is notoriously difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 420266,
      "EditedText": "A decline in a projected rise and a decline in absolute numbers are different things. You said that the prison closures will take place on the basis of a slowing down of the projected rise. Was that your evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 420270,
      "EditedText": "Dungavel had made the greatest progress, though."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 420273,
      "EditedText": "I said that I accepted that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 420274,
      "EditedText": "And it was one of the shining examples in the report of Her Majesty's chief inspector of prisons, was it not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 420276,
      "EditedText": "Was the market value of Dungavel a factor?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 420277,
      "EditedText": "I did not take the decision, but I know that there were a number of factors. Seven criteria were used when the Scottish Prison Service decided to close or, in the case of the Peterhead unit, mothball establishments: operational impact of closure; cost per prisoner place; flexibility of establishment to change its role; maximum use of available accommodation; geographic location; future investment needs; and recent substantial investment. I should also mention that Dungavel was not built as a prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 420278,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Prison Service seems to have been forced to make decisions. How much input did you have into the decisions around the £13.5 million that was marked for redistribution in the justice budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 420280,
      "EditedText": "I recognise that you must prioritise. I am a little surprised to hear today that £2 million has been announced for the witness support scheme. While we welcome that initiative, it did not seem to be a factor in previous debates.Was it not unfair to hit the new chief executive of prisons with a reduction in his budget one month after he took up his post? Surely it would have been reasonable to allow Mr Cameron to settle in to his job before reviewing his budget. Have you not undermined Mr Cameron in the eyes of the warders who have worked hard to make the savings of £13 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 420281,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that Mr Cameron can speak for himself. I have every confidence in his ability to lead the Prison Service in his role as chief executive. I have had regular meetings with him since he took up that post, and I do not believe that he feels undermined in any way. He feels perfectly able to cope with the challenge with which he was presented as a consequence of the budgetary decisions. Mr Cameron can say whether he feels undermined or not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 420285,
      "EditedText": "I was addressing the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 420287,
      "EditedText": "Mr Cameron is an experienced civil servant of the highest calibre and is more than equal to the challenge that he has been set. That will become evident as time passes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 420288,
      "EditedText": "That is not the point, Mr Wallace. The fact that Mr Cameron is very capable goes without saying, given the level to which he has risen in the civil service. However, for any new manager who is coming into a major position and is inexperienced in that particular area of operation suddenly to be faced with a considerable budget cut, before having had a chance to examine all the circumstances is, surely, unfair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 420289,
      "EditedText": "I want to record that I am aware of the steps that Mr Cameron has taken to ensure that, at critical times in this process, his governors and staff were kept as fully informed as possible and that decisions were communicated to them as quickly as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 420292,
      "EditedText": "I want to change tack slightly. The recent report by the chief inspector of prisons for Scotland recognises that there is still overcrowding and that there are considerable problems of drug abuse, but we are planning to remove 400 experienced officers from the Scottish Prison Service. Not long ago, I asked you a question in the chamber about the number of time-off-in-lieu hours that were outstanding—currently more than 100,000 hours, which, I was told, equated to 20 hours per man. However, on further investigation one finds that the situation varies across the service and that there are very high pockets of time off in lieu in the key prisons. Have you given any further thought to that? Has there been any thought of slowing down the removal of prison officers from the service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 420295,
      "EditedText": "Mr Gallie has referred to the report of Her Majesty's chief inspector of prisons, which was published in August this year. I want to draw the committee's attention to the fact that the chief inspector indicated that, earlier in the decade, the prison population was expected to rise to nearly 7,000 this year. That underlines what I was saying about how notoriously difficult it is to predict numbers in prison.The chief inspector went on to say:\"An end to over-population will mean that much needed additional refurbishment can be effected throughout the prison estate. Consideration might even be given to closing one or two of the more isolated establishments.\"In the summer of this year, when the estimate of the prison population—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 420296,
      "EditedText": "Mr Wallace, I do not want us to keep going over this. There is a clear difference in evidence that we have taken on the expected rise in prison population."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 420297,
      "EditedText": "I was not challenging the evidence that you have received on the projections. I was just putting it in context and making the point that in the summer of this year, when Mr Fairweather was drawing up his report, the estimated prison population for the current year was 6,100. The actual total is nearer 6,000. Within even the few months since the summer—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 420299,
      "EditedText": "Even then, Mr Fairweather said that there was scope for the closure of one or two of the more isolated establishments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 420301,
      "EditedText": "Mr Fairweather also pointed out that it is always important in the Scottish Prison Service to have 120-odd places vacant to deal with emergency situations. The closures will make that impossible. Have you any thoughts on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 420303,
      "EditedText": "But not 120 places. That is being reviewed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 420316,
      "EditedText": "No. At that time I was dealing with agriculture and food, rather than prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 420327,
      "EditedText": "Prison officers will receive whatever training the governors in the receiving establishments judge necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 420329,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We need to train people for the task. We are no longer recruiting, so we will do less recruitment training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 420335,
      "EditedText": "With respect, Mrs Grahame, those are two sides of the same coin. The prison was underutilised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 420337,
      "EditedText": "I saw the evidence. We disagree with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 420340,
      "EditedText": "That was the only prison, apart from Dungavel, that had a market value next to it in the options paper. Would you care to comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 420345,
      "EditedText": "The point that I have tried to convey to the committee is that the prisons that are marked for closure are ones where there was considerable overcapacity, even when prison numbers were high. I have not avoided the problems with higher-security prisons, which is why the Prison Service is setting up an estates review. The committee will no doubt want to return to that issue when the review reports. That is part of the overall picture. Is it being suggested that it might have been more appropriate to close other prisons or that we should not invest more in victim support or the drugs enforcement agency?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 420346,
      "EditedText": "Come on, minister. Instead of you asking the committee detailed questions—when it is quite clear that the committee is of the view that no prisons should have been closed—I will let Christine ask one more question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 420349,
      "EditedText": "I have not had any such discussions either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 420352,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 420353,
      "EditedText": "Minister, you mentioned alternatives to custody. Which types of offender would qualify for alternatives to custody and which would go into custody?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 420355,
      "EditedText": "There is supposedly overcapacity in open prisons at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 420362,
      "EditedText": "Those were operational decisions taken by the Scottish Prison Service. I am sure that the service takes such decisions with the knowledge of where there is current excess capacity—particularly in open and category C prisons—and against a background of the Executive policy to increase the use of non-custodial sentencing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 420363,
      "EditedText": "I have a question about Longriggend, which I visited with other members of the committee. A question was put to me about remand prisoners. At Longriggend, we saw that all types of remand prisoners were put together and concern was expressed that some of those people, if convicted, might be category C, while others would be of a higher category. Is it sensible to mix those remand prisoners? Given the closure of Longriggend, is there an opportunity to create new arrangements to stream prisoners in some way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 420364,
      "EditedText": "I am advised that, technically, all remand prisoners are category B. I take your point—there are varying degrees of alleged crime that give rise to their situation. It is my understanding that, following the closure of Longriggend, there will be better arrangements regarding categorisation. Mr Cameron may want to comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 420366,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the new arrangements will try to address that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 420367,
      "EditedText": "Longriggend is unsatisfactory in several respects. Letham hall at Barlinnie, which is where the remaining prisoners from Longriggend will go when it closes, is a better destination in terms of care and separation. That will allow those prisoners awaiting deportation—a different category altogether—to go to Greenock, which is being refurbished. Currently, those prisoners are also mixed up with the remand prisoners at Longriggend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 420368,
      "EditedText": "Mr Wallace, the initiatives that you outlined are good, but the committee, perhaps coming from a different angle, wants to be satisfied that the end result is not detrimental to the Prison Service. I am sure that you would accept that that is part of our role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 420369,
      "EditedText": "That is absolutely fair. I want to ensure that it is not detrimental to securing prisoners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 420371,
      "EditedText": "The money comes from several sources. There was some money from end-year flexibility in the courts budget, from the underspend on criminal injuries compensation—that is a demand-led budget—and from the capital modernisation programme. The £13 million is part of that money, but not all of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 420380,
      "EditedText": "As far as I am aware, that was a leaked document, and we are investigating where the leak came from. It is the Executive's policy not to comment on leaked documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 420381,
      "EditedText": "You are sitting next to the minister who is responsible for freedom of information, Mr Cameron. In those circumstances, perhaps you might like to comment on the e-mail that we have all read."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 420382,
      "EditedText": "No. We are still investigating the matter. Criminal issues might be involved, as well as employment ones, which might result in disciplinary action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 420387,
      "EditedText": "I have no knowledge of the purchase of bunk beds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 420394,
      "EditedText": "That is a concern about which we feel we must press you. If we are to be satisfied about the closure of those prisons, we must be convinced that the capacity exists to cope with that scenario."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 420403,
      "EditedText": "Four members are still waiting to ask questions. We will not get on to the other issues that we might have covered had there been time. Will the four members please ask a question each so that we can proceed quickly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C420404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 420404,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in prison numbers. I do not share the view that those establishments should be closed. Although I understand the argument and it seems rational, I still worry about the future.There are two possibilities: more space or fewer prisoners. Far too many people are in jail and you are a bit vague about what you are going to do about that. Have numbers been worked out in relation to alternatives to custody? If we were to use those alternatives, they might accommodate 200 prisoners. It is all very well to say that that is a matter for the courts, but it is not. The courts, to some extent, do what they are told. If legislation says that the courts cannot send people to jail except in certain circumstances, the courts cannot send them to jail, so prison numbers are, to some extent, controlled by legislation.What legislative plans are there to deal with, for example, fine defaulters going to prison? Do you think that they should go to prison? We should have specific proposals on how to cut numbers using alternatives to custody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 420405,
      "EditedText": "I was wondering what you were going to say when you said that the courts could be told what to do. I thought that we were going down a rather dangerous road. It is invidious to make those projections, given that it is not within the Executive's power to determine what the courts will do. We must ensure that a range of sentences is available to the courts.There is now a scheme throughout Scotland, that allows supervision as an alternative to prison for fine defaulting. It does not rule out prison as an option if a sheriff thinks it appropriate, but the scheme provides an alternative for the sheriff, and permits the circumstances of a case to be taken into account.The drug treatment and testing orders will focus on the rehabilitation of a person who is convicted of a crime that was committed to fund drug abuse. We have started a pilot scheme for that in Glasgow and funding for it is to be doubled from April next year. A pilot scheme will be started in Fife in April, so we can evaluate the scheme in two different areas. The scheme involves regular contact between the offender and the sheriff and looks towards rehabilitation rather than imprisonment. Electronic tagging is being piloted in three sheriff courts. We will continue to evaluate that for another year. Diversions from prosecution have been undertaken in 18 local authority areas and are currently the subject of an evaluation by the University of Stirling.The amount of money that has been spent on developing the range of alternatives to custody has increased considerably over recent years. We are trying to ensure that courts have a wide range of sentences, which they deem appropriate to particular circumstances. Figures show that in recent years more people have had sentences that I describe as \"in the community\". The sentences have often been alternatives to fines rather than to imprisonment. We must ensure that the judiciary views those alternatives as appropriate alternatives to imprisonment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 420408,
      "EditedText": "We welcome your comments about witness support. What can you tell us about what you will do for victim support? I think I quote you directly as saying that it is \"notoriously difficult\" to predict prison numbers. If that is the case, why have you relied on the statisticians' figures, which have been considered erroneous until now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 420411,
      "EditedText": "A sum of £2 million is going into this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 420412,
      "EditedText": "Is that for witness support or for Victim Support?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 420421,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned about whistle-blowers—those who try to bring us helpful information—because of the risks that they are likely to run."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 420422,
      "EditedText": "That is a reasonable comment that other members of the committee will wish to take on board. One or two other people wanted to ask questions, but I do not think that we have—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 420423,
      "EditedText": "If they are quick, I can try to answer them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 420424,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister. I can go to Maureen, then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 420428,
      "EditedText": "As I tried to explain before, targets are formally agreed between ministers and the Scottish Prison Service. I am sure that I set them out in a parliamentary written answer. They are formal targets that relate to a number of points such as, for example, that there should be no security—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 420429,
      "EditedText": "But is a target more important than an aspiration? Is it more important than a ministerial decision? When was the ministerial decision changed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 420432,
      "EditedText": "Those decisions were made by the board with regard to the criteria that I have already described. Retention of Low Moss was favoured because it is convenient for visiting families. That is an important point. It has a low cost per prisoner place, industrial productivity is high and economically advantageous and it provides a high proportion of category C places. To put this in context, we are talking about—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 420436,
      "EditedText": "I am telling you several things. First, the condition of Low Moss will be examined in the overall review of the whole prison estate, to which I have already referred. Secondly, that £13 million was not going to be used to improve conditions or the fabric at Low Moss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 420438,
      "EditedText": "You asked me what the money was going to be used for before. It was going to be used—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 420439,
      "EditedText": "It is not being used for anything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 420441,
      "EditedText": "With respect, minister, £13 million was not spent. You might have had plans for that money in the longer, the shorter or the medium term; however, the fact is that that £13 million, which could have been spent on the likes of Low Moss, on a night sanitation programme, was not spent, and has now been lost to the Prison Service as a whole."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 420445,
      "EditedText": "So Mr Cameron was wrong when he told this committee, on 14 September:\"One of the reasons that less has been done there is that a ministerial decision was taken that the priority for the Prison Service was to end slopping out by 2004-05.\"—Official Report, Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 September 1999; c 151. Was Mr Cameron telling the truth? Was there a ministerial decision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 420446,
      "EditedText": "I have said that I did not make that ministerial decision. It may have been indicated in the past that that was a target—I am sorry—an aim. It was not a formal target."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 420447,
      "EditedText": "An aspiration, perhaps?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 420450,
      "EditedText": "We still expect an improvement in the tackling of drug abuse in prisons. There has been no cutback in the rehabilitation budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 420455,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy to invite Clive Fairweather and representatives of the Association of Visiting Committees for Scottish Penal Establishments, however we manage to do that? The organisation is decentralised, so it might be a little awkward to arrange witnesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 420458,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that, but I would like us to take on board the point that Christine Grahame and Gordon Jackson raised. At some point pretty soon I would like us to consider where we will focus our attention in future. Having heard the evidence, I have my own view about that. I would like to discuss that at the next meeting, to see whether there is any consensus. We cannot go on for ever."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 420459,
      "EditedText": "Whether we will have time at the next meeting to have that discussion is a moot point, although we will try to do that shortly thereafter in order to pull together a report that is reasonably reflective of committee members' views on this issue. We will proceed on that basis. We have agreed to take the next item on the agenda in private. I ask everyone who is not a committee member to leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 420460,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 17:40."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 420305,
      "EditedText": "I will try to keep my questions short, and I hope that I will get short answers. When was consideration first given to £13 million being taken from the prison fund—consideration given to that, rather than a decision taken on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 420307,
      "EditedText": "When was that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 420311,
      "EditedText": "So the £13 million was never discussed and, before 6 October, there was no suggestion of money being taken from the prisons budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 420319,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that low morale among employees will have any impact on the inmates?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 420321,
      "EditedText": "What financial assistance will be available for relocation of prison officers? I understand that some officers have relocated to Dungavel, only to find that they will have to move again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 420350,
      "EditedText": "Are you aware that any such discussions have taken place, even if you have not been involved personally?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 11226,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 420243,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 15:32"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 11226,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11226,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 420245,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee agree to hold a similar discussion at the end of the first meeting after the recess, on 11 January? That meeting will not involve stage 2 consideration of the bills, but we will need to have a brief discussion then about how we will handle those bills in subsequent meetings.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 420259,
      "EditedText": "You are right to say that the end date was predicted. There was never a formal target, which ministers sometimes set. I think that I was clear when I answered Mr Barrie earlier: it is no longer considered possible to reach the predicted end date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 420248,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I should introduce Ruth Ritchie, who is from the Scottish Executive's finance division.I welcome this opportunity to meet the committee to discuss recent developments in the Scottish Prison Service. I recognise that the matter has caused concern in some areas. However, as the committee will appreciate, I am responsible for the effective use of taxpayers' resources in the justice department. In reviewing the Executive's justice priorities in recent months, it was necessary to find funding for witness support, for police infrastructure, for the drugs enforcement agency and for tackling domestic abuse.We will fund those initiatives by utilising funds from a number of sources, including what is known as end-year flexibility from the Scottish Prison Service. The impact of those decisions on the Scottish Prison Service is that the reduction in prison capacity and the consequential reduction in staff complement, which was already planned, will be implemented over the next two years rather than over a longer period.The committee will be well aware of the detail of the rationalisation of the prison estate, which is now to take place during the first half of 2000. That is an operational matter for the Scottish Prison Service board. As the minister responsible for the Scottish Prison Service, I am satisfied that that task can be carried out without disruption to the normal work of the service. The decision to target establishments for closure to allow the service to live within its revised budget, rather than inflicting cuts across the prison estate as a whole, seems to be the right approach. I appreciate that there are issues concerning the future capacity of the prison estate. Historically based projections indicate that the prison population will continue to rise. However, the Government is rigorously advocating the use of alternatives to custody. We anticipate that, as those schemes develop, the projected rise in the prison population, which is already diminishing, will continue to fall.It is significant that Scotland's prison population has been stable at an average of around 6,000 per annum since 1997-98. However, we cannot be complacent, and that is why the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service is initiating an immediate review of the prison estate, including its forward capital programme of refurbishment and rebuilding. I anticipate that that will be completed by spring next year. The rationalisation of the prison estate could delay the previous Administration's aspiration of providing night sanitation in all prisons. That issue will be examined by the estates review team that is being set up.You asked, convener, about the £13 million end-year flexibility that was reallocated from the Scottish Prison Service and about the other areas towards which that will go. Witness support schemes have been piloted in Ayr, Kirkcaldy and Hamilton sheriff courts in recent years. They have been well received by witnesses, who found them reassuring and helpful, at least according to the evaluation that we have carried out. Witnesses play a central role in any justice system. For anyone unfamiliar with the inside of a courtroom, being a witness is often an unnerving and intimidating experience.I can announce today that £2 million of the money being reallocated from the Scottish Prison Service savings will enable the Executive to roll out the witness support scheme to every sheriff court in Scotland. That is an important, valuable step forward, which I am sure the committee will welcome.We will also invest heavily in the police's ability to tackle crime in Scotland, thereby allowing the drugs enforcement agency to be established. On top of those commitments, we will invest considerable sums in tackling domestic abuse. I hope that the committee will agree with me that those are important priorities.While the adjustment of the Scottish Prison Service budget is a major issue in the short term, we want to recognise the excellent work that it undertakes, and which will continue. The service has a first-class record on the secure custody of prisoners and on the various programmes aimed at their rehabilitation. The programmes will proceed, and we are determined to improve their quality and coverage over time. The overall approach taken by the Scottish Prison Service board means that, for the majority of prison establishments, it will be business as usual. I have every confidence in the service's ability to manage the situation.Convener, it has been indicated to me that the committee may also wish to spend a little time examining the legislative burden that we jointly face and, in particular, the timetable for the various bills that are before you. I will be happy to answer, or at least try to answer, questions on that matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 420250,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 420252,
      "EditedText": "I am certainly aware of the projections made by the Scottish Executive's civil and criminal justice statistics unit. Predicting the number of prisoners is notoriously difficult. Some of the projections for the number of prisoners this year, made in the middle of the 1990s, were in the order of 6,700. Last year's prediction for this year was 6,200. By the summer of this year, the number was scaled down to 6,100. The average for the year will in fact be 6,000. As at 3 December, the figure stood at 5,928. Even a prediction made in the summer of this year is out by 100, and there has been a general undershoot.There is no complacency about the number which will be carefully monitored by the Scottish Prison Service board and which will impinge on its work on the estates review.I also want to emphasise that, as Mr Barrie rightly mentioned, we have a strong commitment to alternatives to custody. A considerable increase is being made to the resources put into them, and they should command the confidence of the sheriffs and of the public. They should be seen as tough options and as real alternatives to custody.I want to cover another important point: capacity numbers. As the committee will be aware, the two prisons that have been earmarked for closure by the SPS board are Penninghame and Dungavel. Penninghame is an open prison, and the figures clearly relate to the fact that Scotland has three open prisons despite the number of prisoners justifying only two. Dungavel is for category C prisoners. There is surplus capacity in the system for that category. Even in March this year, when the prison population reached a peak at more than 6,300, there was still spare capacity—I think of around 180 places—in the open prisons and in the lower-security, category C prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 420253,
      "EditedText": "I anticipate that there will be more particular questions about Penninghame and Dungavel. Do you have any follow-up questions, Scott?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 420265,
      "EditedText": "I will repeat what I said in my statement. Because of alternatives to custody, we anticipate that the projected rise in the prison population, which is already diminishing, will continue to fall. It is perhaps significant that the population of Scottish prisons has been stable at an average of 6,000 a year since 1997-98. I went on to say that we cannot be complacent about that, which is why there is a review of the prison estate, including the forward capital programme of refurbishment and rebuilding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 420267,
      "EditedText": "That was the evidence. I am sure that the official report will have picked it up and I will give the reporters a copy of my statement so that they can report it accurately. I have also indicated that the prisons that are being closed are not the ones that have experienced problems with overcrowding. The prisons that are being closed are ones where there has been over-capacity. One would not send category A or B prisoners to Penninghame. Even when prisoner numbers reached a peak this year, there was excess capacity in Scotland's open prisons and in category C prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 420269,
      "EditedText": "The fact that Dungavel was not full to capacity is indicative of the fact that category C prisons were not full to capacity. I did not specify Dungavel, I talked about category C prisons. There were other reasons why Dungavel was an appropriate prison to close. The dormitory-type accommodation was not liked by prisoners or prison officers. It is not the most convenient for visitors to attend. You mentioned the work that has been done towards making Dungavel free of drugs. I am grateful for the opportunity to note it with approval. However, that work is being attempted in all parts of the Prison Service. Similar efforts will be made in Friarton, which is where most of the prisoners from Dungavel will go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 420271,
      "EditedText": "I accept that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 420272,
      "EditedText": "Yes or no, minister. Had Dungavel made the greatest progress?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 420275,
      "EditedText": "The prison did well, but many factors were taken into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 420279,
      "EditedText": "I have overall responsibility for the justice budget within an Executive that determines the distribution of an overall budget. The Parliament will have an opportunity to consider that tomorrow morning.As I indicated in my opening remarks, there are a number of competing priorities within the area of justice: the baseline provision, the end-year flexibilities and so on. The budget had to take account of things that the new Administration wanted to do. We want to fund a drugs enforcement agency, we want to support witness support schemes in all Scotland's sheriff courts and we want to fund a crime prevention initiative to make our communities safer. Approval was given last week to stage 1 of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. We are pursuing many initiatives that I hope this committee will support and for which money must be found.The Scottish Prison Service had accumulated £24 million end-year flexibility—£11 million in the previous year and £13 million from years prior to that. A judgment was made that, of that money, £11 million would be retained by the Prison Service and £13 million would be spent on other items in the justice budget that are identified by everyone as priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron (Scottish Prison Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 420282,
      "EditedText": "I agree entirely with what Mr Wallace has said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 420283,
      "EditedText": "You may agree with him, but it could be said that you are disagreeing with the evidence that we have taken from the warders, the people whom you control and for whom you are responsible. Although it might be reasonable to expect, Mr Wallace, that at present Mr Cameron feels totally unaffected by what has happened and on top of the job, it may just be that he has not got down yet to the roots of the problem and does not realise what dismay the staff of the Scottish Prison Service feel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 420286,
      "EditedText": "It is true that I agree with what the minister said and disagree with some of the evidence that you have received, which was inaccurate and wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 420291,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, Mr Gallie, Mr Cameron took considerable steps to ensure that his staff found out what was happening from him and from the board, rather than from newspaper reports. He acted very properly from the point of view of personnel management.I want to make one other point. You talk about budget cuts, and £13 million of the end-year flexibility has, indeed, been removed. It is worth putting on record that the baseline budget for the Scottish Prison Service continues to increase."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 420293,
      "EditedText": "That is very much an operational matter, although I am aware that people often want to arrange time off in lieu to suit their personal circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 420298,
      "EditedText": "Mr Fairweather also pointed out—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 420300,
      "EditedText": "We would be considerably more impressed, Mr Wallace, if the closure of prisons had been delayed until we could actually see a decline in numbers. Phil, you have one more question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 420302,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Prison Service continues to have in place appropriate contingency plans for emergency situations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 420304,
      "EditedText": "In the summer of this year, Mr Fairweather thought that there was scope for closing one or two establishments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 420306,
      "EditedText": "Once we knew what the justice department's budget was to be, following discussions with the Minister for Finance, and once it had been agreed by the Cabinet, consideration had to be given to how that budget should be divvied up within the department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 420308,
      "EditedText": "You may recall that Mr McConnell made an announcement to the Parliament on 6 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 420323,
      "EditedText": "Briefly, please."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 420331,
      "EditedText": "That is not true. The Prison Service's decision was not a reflection on the work of the staff at Penninghame, which is excellent, but was based on the nature of the building and its location. We do not agree that programmes to address reoffending will be affected materially by the closure; indeed, they may be enhanced, because less money will be spent on Penninghame."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 420333,
      "EditedText": "That is the point that I tried to make earlier. There is overcapacity in open prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 420342,
      "EditedText": "With respect, minister, it would be reasonable to summarise the view of the committee as being that you have taken a real flier at this. You have crossed your fingers, you hope that the numbers will go down and, if they do not, we still be stuck with fewer prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 420344,
      "EditedText": "There may be a difference of opinion as to what the point is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 420357,
      "EditedText": "The policy is that there will be alternatives to custody. If that policy is successful, are we liable to see fewer prisoners in lower-security and open prisons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 420358,
      "EditedText": "That would be the expectation and the objective. However, at the end of the day, those are matters for the courts. I want to ensure that the courts have at their disposal a robust range of sentences, including non-custodial sentences, in which they and the public have confidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 420359,
      "EditedText": "In simple terms, we could characterise the prison estate as lacking higher-security provision, but having too much lower-security and open prison provision. Are you saying that fewer people might need lower-security provision were the policy objective to be successful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 420360,
      "EditedText": "Yes. If the policy is successful, those who are likely to get non-custodial sentences—and who would have got custodial sentences in the past—are likely to be at the lower end of the security scale. If there is a problem—or the potential for one—it is at the higher-security end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 420361,
      "EditedText": "Was there any consideration of the future success of the policy of alternatives in the decisions to close Dungavel and Penninghame?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 420372,
      "EditedText": "But primarily, the money comes from the Prison Service budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 420374,
      "EditedText": "The committee was circulated with a copy of an e-mail, which said that there had been an unusually high order for bunk beds, leading to an assumption that there would be some doubling up in the remaining prisons. That causes us some concern. Such doubling up could lead to potentially dangerous situations. Other members have asked about the spare capacity that is left in the service, for example, in case of riots—I want to pin you down on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 420375,
      "EditedText": "As I said earlier, contingency places are available in the event of emergencies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 420378,
      "EditedText": "We can come back to the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 420379,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps Mr Cameron would address the issue of the bunk beds, as that it is a detail on which I cannot comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 420383,
      "EditedText": "My colleague has suggested that that means it must be true."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 420386,
      "EditedText": "I grant that there are operational issues, but I cannot comment on a leaked document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 420388,
      "EditedText": "Given the prison inspector's report, which shows that Greenock prison was 14 per cent overcrowded, and Mr Cameron's suggestion that prisoners from Longriggend would be moved to Greenock, perhaps that is where the bunk beds are going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 420390,
      "EditedText": "The design capacity of the estate after rationalisation was 6,117. As I said, refurbishment is under way and there will be a review of the estate, which will consider the possibility of building new halls. Information about the places available in case of emergency is not given out. I hope that the committee will understand that that is for obvious security reasons. That is the advice that I have been given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 420391,
      "EditedText": "With respect, minister, the previous figure was given to us openly. Why the sudden coyness?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 420393,
      "EditedText": "I have read that, but I can neither confirm nor deny it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 420395,
      "EditedText": "The important point is not the numbers, but whether the Prison Service believes it has the capacity to take account of emergencies. Mr Cameron confirms that it does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 420396,
      "EditedText": "We do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 420398,
      "EditedText": "A formal target was never set. The Prison Service has a number of targets that it is expected to meet. Ministers set those out annually and they appear in the Prison Service's corporate plan, but there has never been such a target for slopping out.It was hoped that slopping out could be ended by 2005 but, as I said to Mr Barrie, that might slip as a result of the rationalisation that has taken place. If it does, the extent will depend on a number of factors such as decisions that will be made following the estates review and whether there will be refurbishment of existing halls or building of new halls. It will also depend on prison numbers. As I said, refurbishment makes decanting necessary and that is more difficult as a result of what has happened. It is easier to get on with building new halls without the need to decant because we can make more progress.Do not get me wrong—I would like progress to be made towards ending slopping out. It is important to recognise that there has not been a cut in the capital budget for rebuilding and refurbishment in the prison estate programme; the problem is moving prisoners around."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 420401,
      "EditedText": "The members who visited Low Moss think that more than CCTV cameras are required. The dormitory arrangement must also be examined. The evidence we got when we visited was that that is part of the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 420413,
      "EditedText": "It is for the witness support scheme—bear in mind that many victims of crime end up as witnesses and must give evidence. The experience of the schemes that are already in place in Kirkcaldy, Ayr and Hamilton has been very positive. The witnesses have someone there who is independent of the legal system. That person is a friendly face who can talk them through the process, identify some of the issues and problems and tell them what they are likely to see when they enter the court. People who have used those schemes have found them valuable and worthwhile, which is why I have said that it would be good to roll the scheme out throughout Scotland. That is what we intend to do.I am not sure that I followed your second question. I said that if we had, gone on the prison population projections made in the mid-1990s—I believe it was 1997, which was not that long ago—the expected average prison population for the current year would have been 6,750. In fact it is 750 less than that. The point I made was that the figures are unreliable—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 420414,
      "EditedText": "But you rely on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 420416,
      "EditedText": "In that case, are you planning for the failure of the drugs enforcement agency?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 420417,
      "EditedText": "No, certainly not. The drugs enforcement agency represents an important policy—Angus MacKay unveiled its structure today. I know that the follow-up to your question will be, \"If it is successful, will you have more people in prison?\" It is a point that Mr Gallie has made. However, I assure you that the kind of drug dealers at whom the drugs enforcement agency is particularly directed will not be going to the open prison at Penninghame or the category C prison at Dungavel—they will be high-security prisoners. Mr Cameron says that we will find room for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 420418,
      "EditedText": "I sincerely hope so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 420419,
      "EditedText": "An important part of the Government's policy for tackling drug abuse is to gather intelligence and target those higher up the drug supply chain to cut the supply. It is also about education, health and trying to reduce the number of petty drug offenders—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C420425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 420425,
      "EditedText": "My question has been covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 420431,
      "EditedText": "When Mr Cameron gave us evidence earlier, he posed a question to us, as you did earlier this evening, about what work we would like to be carried out. When we talked about the condition of Low Moss, Mr Cameron said that no work had been done because the night sanitation programme was the priority. He asked what we wanted the Scottish Prison Service to do and whether we wanted it to cut the night sanitation programme. You are constantly challenging us on our priorities, but your priorities and targets seem to change from month to month."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 420437,
      "EditedText": "That money will not be used for anything now, as it has been removed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 420443,
      "EditedText": "Are those still going to be the changes in two months' time? The priority of the Scottish Prison Service was to end slopping out by 2004-05, but that was turned on its end within months. Are the policies that you are now outlining going to be overturned in another couple of months?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 420449,
      "EditedText": "The Executive document \"Making it Work Together\" says:\"by September 1999 › We will tackle the problem of drugs in prisons.\"The prison inspector's report has been published, the findings of which are very serious as they indicate a 70 per cent incidence of drug abuse. How does the removal of 400 prison officers, and further overcrowding in our prisons, address that pledge?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C420456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 420456,
      "EditedText": "Hearing evidence from the prison visitors will be as near as we will be able to get to interviewing prisoners themselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 420457,
      "EditedText": "Also, they have the advantage of being lay people and therefore they may have views that are closer to committee members' views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 420451,
      "EditedText": "Members have no other questions. I thank the minister for coming today. I suspect that there may be further issues that the committee will want to explore; however, those do not involve the minister at this stage.I remind committee members that we are going to have a brief discussion on how we are going to pursue the prisons issue. That will continue in public. After that, we will go into private session to discuss future business.We need five minutes to take stock of where we stand on the prisons issue. Committee members will know that we started off on one tack, with the report of Her Majesty's chief inspector of prisons for Scotland. It was fortuitous that we were considering that when the cuts were announced. We have been able to extend our consideration of the issues into that area. A draft report was put together by the clerks on the first phase of our business. The committee will recall that we decided that it would not be sensible to publish that as a report of our work so far, without proceeding to discuss our views on the cuts and the predicted closures.We must decide whether we want to proceed further on this. Clive Fairweather has stated that he is willing to return to speak to us specifically about the proposed closures if the committee feels that that would be helpful. Members may recall that he initially gave a response to the announcement of the closures that was relatively relaxed—I think that that is the best way to put it. He subsequently qualified that initial response. He is prepared to return to talk to us on the record about that.Another organisation has indicated that it wants to speak to us about the matter. It is an organisation of prison visitors, with which some committee members may be familiar, which extends throughout Scotland. It has indicated that it would like to put some of its views to the committee as well. I am in the hands of the committee at this stage, although I think that it would be wrong not to invite Clive Fairweather back, as, in a sense, it was his report that triggered the entire consideration of the matter in the first place. We might give some thought to whether the prison visitors should be asked to send some representatives as well, if we can fit that visit in.Do committee members have views on our position on this matter or on the way in which we should proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C420452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 420452,
      "EditedText": "If Clive Fairweather wants to come back to the committee, of course we should listen to him. We should probably listen to the prison visitors as well, as they go into prisons a lot and approach their work from an angle that is different to that of either management or staff. It would be useful to hear from them. I cannot help but think that we should try to wind up this piece of work. If we are going to produce a report, we should do so fairly soon after hearing that evidence. We have so much to do that we should try to close this subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 11226,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11226,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 420244,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon. I have received an apology from Kate MacLean, who is unable to attend this meeting. There is a good deal of media interest in today's proceedings, so I ask members and witnesses to be aware that there are tripod-mounted cameras in the room to capture our meeting for posterity.When we have finished the evidence session, I will ask the committee to consider on the record how we are to take forward our work on the prisons issue. We have had a draft report, which we deferred because of the cuts and job losses in the Scottish Prison Service, so we must decide how we are now to proceed.Item 2 on the agenda is a short discussion on the practicalities of the committee's work load after the recess. That part of the meeting should be held in private. It will just involve reporting to the committee the timetabling issues for stage 2 of the bills, requests from the Parliamentary Bureau and other such matters. Does the committee agree to item 2 being held in private?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 420260,
      "EditedText": "As a direct result of the cuts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C420254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 420254,
      "EditedText": "Minister, I accept the difficulty of estimating prisoner numbers, given that we do not know what the courts may decide to do. What is the contingency plan, if there is one, to avoid serious overcrowding in the Scottish Prison Service if the number rises to the level that has been predicted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 420264,
      "EditedText": "But you can close prisons only if you predict that prisoner numbers will decrease."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 420268,
      "EditedText": "I think that we understand what you are trying to say. The difficulty for us is the evidence that we have heard. For example, the fact that Dungavel appeared not to be full to capacity was a result of a decision that was taken to allow the prison to achieve the enormous success that it has done. The end result, however, is the closure of the prison. How can you justify that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 420284,
      "EditedText": "That may be true, but the fact of the matter is—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 420290,
      "EditedText": "There is no argument about the speed of communication. It had to be fast, given the speed of closures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 420294,
      "EditedText": "They cannot in some prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 420310,
      "EditedText": "As you may know, in the run-up to the decision by the Minister for Finance, great efforts are made to secure budgets. The justice department kept its budget intact this year, but only once we knew what the budget was going to be was it possible to make the decisions that flowed from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 420312,
      "EditedText": "Clearly, in my negotiations with Mr McConnell he was aware that there was £24 million end-year flexibility, along with other end-year flexibilities in the justice budget. That was a matter for bilateral negotiation. We were not unaware that the money was there and that, theoretically, it was possible to use it to fund justice department priorities. However, we could not get down to making hard-and-fast decisions until we knew what the budget was going to be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 420314,
      "EditedText": "That is a question for Mr Cameron."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 420318,
      "EditedText": "That is a matter for the board of the Scottish Prison Service. I had a very constructive meeting with representatives of the prison staff, who are willing to engage in discussion with the board of the Scottish Prison Service. I am not pretending that they were happy with the situation, but I was impressed by the constructive way in which they addressed it. Day-to-day industrial relations between employer and employee are an operational matter for the Scottish Prison Service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 420320,
      "EditedText": "That is an operational matter. Prison officers are committed to their job and realise its importance and seriousness. They conduct themselves in a professional manner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 420322,
      "EditedText": "Exit packages are on offer. It may be more appropriate for Mr Cameron to give the details."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 420325,
      "EditedText": "Relocation packages are available for those who require them. Some people will move to prisons that are nearer where they live and others to prisons that are further away."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 420339,
      "EditedText": "It is up to the committee to evaluate the evidence before it. However, it is important to point out that there is also evidence that Scotland requires two, not three, open prisons. The Prison Service is closing the smallest of the three establishments, which is in a remote site that is sometimes difficult to reach for visits. If an emergency were to arise—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 420341,
      "EditedText": "I gave you the list of criteria, of which that is one. You would fully expect those of us who are charged with responsibility for the public purse to get best value, while ensuring that operational requirements are met. Overcapacity clearly existed. Is the committee satisfied that the priorities I identified in other areas of the justice budget are ones that should be met? If so, does the committee propose to identify other areas that should be cut, or is it suggesting that other prisons should have been cut?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 420343,
      "EditedText": "With respect, if that is what the committee thinks, it has missed the point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 420348,
      "EditedText": "I have not had any such discussions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 420351,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 420354,
      "EditedText": "Inevitably, prisoners who fall into lower-security categories would qualify for alternatives to custody. The prison population can be categorised in a number of ways, for example those who are serving mandatory life sentences. There are also 1,800 prisoners who are serving sentences for serious crimes of violence and sexual offences. Others are in prison for serious drug offences, particularly drug dealing. Prison remains the proper disposal for those people. However, about 2,700 people in prisons are, arguably, not a risk to the public. In some of those cases, prison will no doubt be the proper disposal. At the end of the day, that is for the courts to determine in the light of all the circumstances. For some of those people though, community-based sentences would be more appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 420356,
      "EditedText": "There is overcapacity in open prisons and in category C prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 420365,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I can sum up my point by saying that the drug user and the drug dealer are potentially cheek by jowl."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 420370,
      "EditedText": "That is where my concerns lie. At the moment, I am not convinced that this is not detrimental to the service. You have said that you have to find money from the justice budget to direct towards the initiatives. Does that money come only from the Prison Service budget or does it come from the budgets of other departments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 420373,
      "EditedText": "We take the total budget and draw resources from different areas. The total cumulative end-year flexibility for the Prison Service was £24 million, of which £13 million was allocated to other areas. There were other sources as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 420376,
      "EditedText": "What spare capacity will that leave? Can you say?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 420377,
      "EditedText": "I will try to give you figures for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 420384,
      "EditedText": "I can make no comment on a leaked document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 420385,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we saw that e-mail, because it raises important issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 420389,
      "EditedText": "It was not a question about bunk beds. I want to know what spare capacity there is in the service for emergencies. We heard evidence last week from the Prison Staff Association, which said that the required capacity was about 100. What is your view on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 420392,
      "EditedText": "We heard evidence last week from the Prison Staff Association, that they had been told that the required capacity was in the region of 100."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 420397,
      "EditedText": "I am running out of time. Other members have previously pressed Mr Wallace and Mr Cameron about the moving targets on slopping out. We are concerned about that. Would anything persuade you that we should go back to the first targets that we set?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 420399,
      "EditedText": "I had the opportunity to visit Low Moss, which has been represented to us as Scotland's most violent prison. We were concerned about the conditions when we went out there. Will there be any money in the budget to address the investment that Low Moss might need?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 420400,
      "EditedText": "The Prison Service's announcement indicated that the condition of Low Moss is being examined. Efforts are being made to ensure that it is managed as effectively as possible. Recent investments have included the installation of closed circuit television cameras in dormitories. Low Moss will be included in the overall review of the estate to which I have referred."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 420402,
      "EditedText": "The condition of Low Moss will be examined as part of the prison estate review that is about to take place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C420406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 420406,
      "EditedText": "Courts do what they are told; that is the purpose of legislation. Why do you not legislate to ensure that fine defaulters do not go to jail any more? Prison governors would welcome such prisoners being cleared out. We should take radical steps to instruct the sentencers that it is no longer appropriate in certain situations to give a jail sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 420407,
      "EditedText": "I cannot say that that is part of the Executive's legislative programme, because it is not. Mr Jackson has raised an interesting subject for further reflection, but an alternative to jail for fine defaulting has been in place since 1998 and is available throughout Scotland. One hopes that sheriffs are not only aware of it but that they feel that that is a more appropriate disposal than sending someone to jail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 420409,
      "EditedText": "In answer to the first question, we intend to rollout the witness support schemes from the three pilot schemes—the pilot schemes might total six, as we intended to double the number and I cannot remember off the top of my head whether the other three are in place yet. They are run with substantial co-operation from Victim Support Scotland, which will be very much involved in the rollout to the whole of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420410",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 420410,
      "EditedText": "Victim Support Scotland is also very short of cash."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 420415,
      "EditedText": "Well, they are there. The concern expressed earlier was that the figure would be 6,700 in 2004. Those levels were predicted two years ago, but have not been reached. In fact, the figure has fallen a long way short of that. There is some stabilisation. We are promoting alternatives to custody, so we suggest that you should be cautious about accepting that the prison population will be 6,700 in 2004."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 420420,
      "EditedText": "Minister, if you do not mind me interrupting, we have all heard the PR for the drugs enforcement agency. I would rather concentrate on prisons for the final few minutes. Lyndsay, do you have another specific issue related to prisons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 420426,
      "EditedText": "Tricia?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 420427,
      "EditedText": "I am curious about targets, aspirations and ministerial decisions with regard to the ending of slopping out by 2004-05. We were first told that that was not a target, but merely an aspiration. Yet, when Mr Cameron gave evidence to the committee in September, he said that it was a ministerial decision that the priority for the Scottish Prison Service was to end slopping out by 2004-05. What is the difference between a ministerial decision that that was the priority for the whole Prison Service, and a target—which might now be an aspiration?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 420430,
      "EditedText": "Targets are a formal part—and perhaps this is where there has been some confusion—of the relationship between ministers and the Scottish Prison Service, which is an executive agency of the Government. Mr Cameron and his staff are required formally to meet those targets. Targets differ from what have been described as aspirations. I indicated in my first answer to Mr Barrie that I wish to see the end of slopping out—refurbishments that are still to be carried out will allow progress to be made on that. I have said candidly to the committee that decisions are still to be made about whether to build a few halls or to refurbish existing ones. The ability to decant prisoners, pending that work being undertaken, depends on the number of prisoners in a particular category. I cannot say for certain whether that target—sorry, aspiration—of ending slopping out by 2005 will be met. I would not be doing a service to the committee if I were to try to pretend otherwise. I hope that we can continue to make progress towards ending slopping out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 420433,
      "EditedText": "It has night sanitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 420434,
      "EditedText": "It has night sanitation—another factor about Low Moss of which I think the committee would approve. I think I am right in saying that the number of prison places lost by the closure of Low Moss would have been considerably greater than the number lost by the closure of Dungavel. The concerns that the committee has expressed to me today point more in the direction of the closure of Dungavel than the closure of Low Moss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 420435,
      "EditedText": "Low Moss is in the most appalling condition. Everybody acknowledges how appalling Low Moss is. One reason why the money was not spent on Low Moss was that the priority was the night sanitation programme. Apart from the ditching of the night sanitation programme, Low Moss is in an appalling condition, although we have £13 million that could have been used to improve Low Moss in the past. Are you telling us that you are going to find the money to do something about Low Moss now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 420440,
      "EditedText": "Let me go back to square one. That £13 million was there, and there was going to be a rationalisation of the prison estate over a longer period. That money would have been required to pay salaries and exit packages over that period. That money has been removed to fund several of the other priorities that I have mentioned. Therefore, the rationalisation of the prison estate, the reduction in the prison staff and the putting together of exit packages are being accelerated. It is a question of timing, rather than of what was going to be done. That £13 million was not earmarked for extending night sanitation. It was there to allow the rationalisation of the prison estate to take place over a longer period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 420442,
      "EditedText": "That money was not going to be spent on the refurbishment of Low Moss. The capital budget has not been cut. The baseline budget of the Prison Service has not been cut. That £13 million has been spent on other priorities in the justice department, such as establishing a drugs enforcement agency, tackling domestic violence and establishing a witness support scheme for all Scotland's sheriff courts. Those are proper priorities. Government is about making choices. Those are the choices that we have made, on which the committee will, no doubt, want to pass judgment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 420444,
      "EditedText": "I will check the record carefully. Although I have clearly stated that I want slopping out to end, I do not recall making a ministerial decision on that. I am fairly confident that I did not; however, I shall stand corrected if anyone can show me the record of my making that decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C420448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 420448,
      "EditedText": "It was an aim and an aspiration, and I still want that to happen. However, the £13 million was not going to be used for that purpose. The ending of slopping out may be delayed, not because part of that £13 million was going to be used for actual works, but because, as I tried to explain, the issue relates to whether prisoners can be moved around while essential work is being done. The capital budget for refurbishment of our prisons has remained intact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 420453,
      "EditedText": "Members will recall that we took a decision in principle to move on to separate issues—women offenders and young offenders—after we had concluded our consideration of this particular area. That will be a longer-term issue and we need to find a way of finalising this part of it. In the normal course of events, and had it not been for the Executive's announcement, we would have finalised our work some time ago.We will conclude our consideration of this area by publishing a report. The first part of the report has been drafted already and the second part will be drafted following our further consideration of the evidence that we have heard, which was stretched out over a fair few meetings. We will need to pull together our views.While we will not produce that report immediately, there is some spare capacity during our first meeting after the recess on Tuesday, 11 January, which would allow us to have another look at this issue. We have one or two items scheduled for that meeting but, as we will not be dealing with stage 2 of either of the two Executive bills at that meeting, we can fit other items into the agenda. We will have to negotiate to see how many items we can shoehorn into that meeting, as we will be taking evidence on poindings and warrant sales. We need to consider what else we can reasonably manage in that meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.958025+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 420313,
      "EditedText": "That is why I made the distinction between consideration and decisions.At any time before Mr Cameron's appointment, was he aware that there might be some erosion of the prisons budget, even if a decision had not been taken?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 420324,
      "EditedText": "But relocation packages are available?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 420326,
      "EditedText": "Another point, which Clive Fairweather observed in his report and which was picked up by the prison officers, is the need for training. Many officers will have worked in a certain category of prison with a certain kind of prisoner and will now be decanted—some against their will—to prisons with different kinds of prisoners. What training, if any, will be given to those officers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 420330,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that other members want to ask questions, but I have one final point. The closure of Penninghame is another issue, which was raised in evidence by the Prison Staff Association on 1 December. Its view was that Penninghame was not sufficiently used, but that that was the fault not of Penninghame, but of the Scottish Prison Service. I recall that the witnesses were dismayed by the closure, because there is a great reduction in recidivism among prisoners who go to Penninghame. The Prison Staff Association was concerned that cutting the open prison service would lead to a cycle of prisoners reoffending."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 420332,
      "EditedText": "The prison officers made the point that Penninghame open prison was not sufficiently utilised by the Prison Service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 420334,
      "EditedText": "That is not the point that the prison officers made. They said that not enough prisoners—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 420336,
      "EditedText": "The point that was made was that prisoners were not encouraged to go through open prisons and to get training, which we have heard is more difficult elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 420347,
      "EditedText": "My question follows on from what has been said about the value placed on prisons. Have there been any discussions with private providers of prison services regarding the sale of Penninghame, Dungavel or Dumfries prisons? The fact that there is suspicion that the Prison Service will be privatised, and that that is why those prisons are on the market, was raised with us in evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2390
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11227,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11227,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 420454,
      "EditedText": "I completely agree with Gordon. I was approached by a representative of the prison visitors. Perhaps that is why that organisation wrote to the clerk. Gordon may be able to confirm that prison visitors can get into prisons any old time, which gives them access to what goes on. Like Gordon, my view is beginning to crystallise; whether we will all share the same view is another matter. However, there will come a point when we will have covered the evidence, both exhaustively and exhaustedly. That is the point at which we could formulate our report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:46.499272+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6347,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6347,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mike Watson): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 241995,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I call the 10th meeting of the Finance Committee to order. I remind members to switch off their mobile phones and set their pagers to vibrate. I have received apologies from Adam Ingram and John Swinney.There are four items on the agenda. I suggest that it would be appropriate to hold agenda item 2—consideration of possible lines of questioning for the Minister for Finance—in private session. Are we agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C242003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 242003,
      "EditedText": "One area has cropped up continually in my meetings with health boards and police authorities: efficiency savings and their impact on budgets.Health boards are being asked to make efficiency savings every year, which means that they are now moving away from non-clinical savings to clinical savings. That is ominous, because it basically amounts to rationing. Yesterday, I visited Fife constabulary, a very impressive police force, 86 per cent of whose budget is spent on manpower. It is now being asked to make savings over the next three years—1 per cent this year, 1.7 per cent next year and 2.5 the year after that—on the remaining 14 per cent of its budget.The demand for efficiency savings is being made right across the public sector. In trying to get to grips with budgetary matters working up to April and May, I do not agree with Sarah Davidson that the subject committees should consider things first. This committee will have to get a feel for the budget. It would be helpful to conduct a budget-related inquiry over the next few months. Efficiency savings and their impact on public services fall under our remit, although they could also come under the remit of the Audit Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 242004,
      "EditedText": "I raised a few matters at our first committee meeting before we fully appreciated the burden of work that we now have to shoulder. We can tie Keith Raffan's suggestion into the wider area of the structure of the funding mechanism. He was right to highlight the point about efficiency savings. The guesstimate is that 50 per cent of the block is spent on wages and salaries. The block increase next year will be 0.5 per cent and average earnings are increasing at 4 per cent, which raises the possibility of severe job losses or a decline in service provision. That is something that the Finance Committee must consider.Academics as well as politicians are asking questions about the effect on the block of the Barnett formula and the allocation mechanism. An inquiry would give us scope for a rigorous investigation of what is going on. We could use select committee work that has been done at Westminster as a starting point. The Parliament must form a view about that, because some people are developing somewhat ill-informed views about the impact that the Barnett formula is having on the budget, and that is not healthy. Cross-party interests converge on that point, because it is not a question of party politics.As the convener will be aware, the European Committee will be considering European additionality. Given the reform of structural funding that is currently under way, additionality is a live issue and one that I have mentioned before. That is something that we should consider.The final issue that I want to raise is the private finance initiative. An inquiry would expose how bad or how good PFI is, would provide a platform for discussing whether reforms could be made and would allow us to question everything from appropriate discount rates to the structure of the deals themselves. The Audit Committee is already asking those questions about one deal, and that has been illuminating. Once that report comes out, the Finance Committee may want to consider some similar questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C242005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 242005,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that I have heard those ideas. We should look at how the Barnett formula works and at the whole context of public sector finances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 242007,
      "EditedText": "The question of Treasury functions is a structural question that we could look at quite quickly. There is a wealth of work out there for us to tap into, so it should not take too long. The question of the Barnett formula and structural funding is one that we can take our time with, over a period of several months, before writing a final report.Politically—from the Parliament's perspective and forgetting party—we should put on record the negative influence that the Barnett formula is having on our budget. There is massive misunderstanding about that. There is no argument about relative levels of spending in one or two areas, but there is an argument about where it is going. It would be useful for us to take charge of that argument and the way in which it is informed, because there is a risk that the Barnett formula will be used to beat the Parliament over the head. That is of no use to anyone. I suggest that we take our time with bigger inquiries, such as that on PFI, and deal with others, such as that on Treasury functions, more quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 242008,
      "EditedText": "We do not have to bring the inquiries to a conclusion before we get into the meat of next year's budget. Andrew's suggestion—that we opt for a short sharp inquiry that we can complete before then, but set the wheels in motion on one that may take us through the summer and into next year—is a good one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 242013,
      "EditedText": "There seems to be general consensus that Treasury functions would be a good starting point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C242014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 242014,
      "EditedText": "I want to make a brief point about quangos. The Minister for Finance has announced that the Executive will be going out to consultation on quangos—he talked about it on \"Newsnight Scotland\". If we were to carry out an inquiry on that topic, it would be appropriate to wait until the consultation process had been completed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 242015,
      "EditedText": "We should ask the clerks to get moving on Treasury functions, as we would look to complete that inquiry in the first quarter, before the budget reaches us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 242016,
      "EditedText": "In addition, could we have a longer-term timetable indicating where the other issues will fit in? Perhaps we could discuss that at our first meeting in the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C242020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 242020,
      "EditedText": "I have one brief point. It is important that we do consecutive inquiries. I sit on another committee, in which we are conducting parallel inquiries. I do not think that that is a good method of working. Supposedly, we are doing a briefing on one issue and an inquiry on another, but I find it very confusing to be switching from subject to subject from week to week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C242024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 242024,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that we will have a volunteer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 242027,
      "EditedText": "The major parties are.If there are no further comments on item 1, we will move to item 2. I remind the press and public that we have decided that this part of the agenda will be dealt with in private session. However, we undertake to give people fair warning of the minister's appearance, which cannot, in any case, take place before 11.30 am. If you would not mind leaving us now, we will consider the lines of questioning that we want to pursue. The outcome of our deliberations will be fully available to you in due course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C242035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 242035,
      "EditedText": "You propose using deflators, but there are different deflators for different areas of the budget. In the area that is of particular interest to me—health—it is generally recognised that, apart from normal inflation, the problem of changes in population mean that an estimated one point something per cent has to be added to the annual budget to maintain the same services. The annual inflation for general pharmaceutical services—a sub-programme under the portfolio of health—is reckoned to be usually 6 per cent or perhaps more. Will you undertake to specify the particular deflators that you are using for particular budgets, rather than just the general deflator?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C242037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 242037,
      "EditedText": "It is particularly important, if we are genuinely to involve the subject committees and the public in rational discussions about real figures, for us to begin to consider individual deflators under the different budget headings, difficult as that may be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 242032,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister. I know that the committee wishes to put a number of questions to you. I would like to ask the first one, on the level 2 sub-programme figures that you have submitted. There is a widespread feeling that the fact that those figures are given in cash terms, not in real terms, makes it much more difficult to come to sensible judgments, particularly as, in future, the subject committees will need to examine the detail before reporting to this committee. Do you not feel that it would be more appropriate to provide real-terms figures? Will you give an undertaking to do so when we enter the first full budgetary cycle next year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 242040,
      "EditedText": "Setting out the estimates in the budgets is a complex process. It is not based on taking the figures from the previous year and simply adding a percentage to every budget heading. We make judgments about the pressures in particular budgets and the priorities between budgets—if necessary, we allocate resources as a result of that process. The increase in the cost of drugs, which you mentioned, is one of the many reasons why there is such a hefty increase in the overall health provision in the comprehensive spending review period. We need to ensure not only that those costs are met, but that they improve the service. Those judgments must be as transparent as possible; the indicators that are used to estimate increased costs across budgets as a whole must add to transparency, not reduce it. That should be our objective. Currently, we think that a consistent deflator helps to achieve that. We use the spending review process to increase resources to make up for any deficiencies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C242041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 242041,
      "EditedText": "I am still not convinced. There are problems with a general deflator. The use of specific head deflators, particularly in areas where we know that there is significant inflation, would be helpful both to ministers and to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 242045,
      "EditedText": "Can we take it from the comments that you made a moment ago that next year, £16.7 billion in cash terms is to be spent, whereas the figure in real terms is only £15.8 billion? That is a difference of some £900 million. It is not particularly illuminating for members of the general public to consider a cash-terms increase as substantial, when that is not the case in real terms.Richard Simpson made a useful point. I accept that when one publishes a general budget, one would use a consistent deflator, so that it is clear across the budget. Keith Raffan and Richard Simpson have said that it would be useful to have an indication of how the budget meets increased volume needs. For example, when one uses a GDP deflator in the health budget, what appears to be an increase in cash terms amounts to a volume decrease in real terms, if one takes account of higher costs for pharmaceuticals. It is important that people understand that.I would also like the minister to consider wage inflation. Next year, the overall budget is increasing by 0.5 per cent in real terms, which is not a large increase. However, average earnings are increasing at 4 per cent. When one takes account of those facts, it is clear that one of three things—or a bit of them all—is happening: public sector pay is not keeping pace with average earnings; jobs are being lost; or the volume of service delivery is decreasing. It would be useful for the Parliament and the Finance Committee to be made aware of what is happening. We must get behind the detail of the figures, as I am sure you are keen to do. Wage inflation is a detail that concerns us greatly, especially as between 50 and 60 per cent of the overall budget is spent on wages, salaries and related labour costs. What do you have to say about those issues? We need to see the detail, not perhaps in the figures, but in the accompanying information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 242046,
      "EditedText": "There seemed to be three different questions; I will try to answer them one at a time. The first question was about the real-terms increase in the budget. Mr Wilson mentioned a figure of £15.8 billion—did that come from a particular column of the budget or was it a calculation that he made himself?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 242049,
      "EditedText": "I am referring to the level 1 figures. The detail is less important than the principle that the real-terms figures are much smaller than the cash-terms figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 242062,
      "EditedText": "There are two stages in this process, which are almost separate. The timetable is compressed this year, so we have not had the more detailed discussion that would take place in all committees—not just this committee—about the rationale behind budgets and about how money is spent within the different headings.My interpretation of the process in which we are engaged today, tomorrow and in January and February until we have a budget bill, is that we are authorising expenditure and giving people authority to spend next year. In that context, therefore, level 2 figures are important. Going below that as part of the control exercise would limit flexibility and the style of management we would like there to be inside the organisation. We can debate over the next few years whether the individual lines for level 2 are right, or whether some of those lines could be slightly more disaggregated.Discussion on what the money is then spent on should occur in the process that takes place in spring and early summer each year, at which time, I would imagine, each committee will want to examine in more detail how money is prioritised within the headings. You mentioned HIE and SE; I assume that the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee will consider the way in which those organisations spend money and the relative balance of priorities at that stage of the budgeting year. Whether that involves looking at figures, or at outcomes and setting targets and priorities, is another issue that we will need to develop. We have to recognise that the system is very new in a parliamentary sense in the UK, but it can work to this level of detail over next year and the year after. We also have to differentiate clearly between the control figures, which are about giving people authority to spend in advance of a budget year—that is a good development and an improvement on the House of Commons system—and the detailed discussion of priorities within those totals, which takes place at a different time of year. That process allows us to put together budgets on a more consensual and certainly more informed basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C242063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 242063,
      "EditedText": "So your short answer is that you will be happy to provide disaggregated figures in the spring?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 242066,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I caught bits of it—it was very interesting and helpful, although, as the constituency MSP for Wishaw, the final outcome in which I am interested is the health of the local population. It is not just about nurses and pharmaceuticals, and budgets for them. That is why these exercises are sometimes not as clear-cut or scientific as it might be helpful for them to be.We could easily spend more money on nurses in Wishaw and have a less healthy local population—that is a balanced judgment that I hope the Health and Community Care Committee would be involved in. Perhaps even MSPs from Lanarkshire would be involved in discussing the detail from time to time. The committee is well aware of my commitment to provide relevant information at an appropriate level in a way that helps to inform committees' discussions. I have consistently undertaken to do that, and consistently stepped back from being specific about what that might entail. It is important that that information is relevant, flexible and adaptable and that we do not tie ourselves down to a particular way of describing these figures each year, which might or might not be helpful. There is no evidence that requests for information—even Mr Wilson's parliamentary questions—are not responded to in some detail. As we go into the next full budget round, we should be flexible and prepared to respond to what individual committees feel is most helpful for them, by preparing information that is useful overall. I do not want people to read that as an implication that information will be restricted or withdrawn from committees in any way. The purpose of this exercise is to inform committees' discussions and for the committees then to inform the Executive's decisions about its budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C242067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 242067,
      "EditedText": "As Andrew Wilson said, the Finance Committee has a central role of arbitrating between committees. While I accept that different budgets are not necessarily comparable, I am not happy, because we need figures that are broken down further. Under level 2, we have 70 headings—compared with 19 under level 1. Level 2 is certainly an improvement, but in the health budget there is one line that amounts to £4.5 billion. Surely we could break that line down a little bit further, minister—even you and I might be able to do that in five minutes. We need to be able to do so because you asked us not to produce a wish list; rather, you said that if we want increases in certain areas we must identify where the money is to come from. If we are to do that, the figures must be broken down further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C242072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 242072,
      "EditedText": "Part of the problem lies in the term, efficiency savings. We are talking about two different things: first, there are genuine efficiency savings, where we attempt to root out inefficiency; secondly, there is re-engineering. In the long term, we need to find some way of getting organisations that are accountable, such as health boards, to say what they are achieving in terms of genuine efficiency—reducing bureaucracy for example—and in terms of shifting priorities. I accept what you are saying about efficiency savings, but the problem lies in the terms that are being used. If, as in Keith Raffan's example, Fife police is being asked to re-engineer 1 per cent of its budget, that is hardly a very challenging operation.I want to come back to the aggregation of the budget. Do you think that it would be possible for us to have some indication about which elements are controlled centrally, as opposed to those that are properly devolved, in order to clarify the responsibility of the individual administering organisation? I keep returning to health as an example, because it is the subject with which I am most familiar. If some of the measures are top sliced—providing for tertiary services for example—there are different mechanisms whereby central funding is allocated. In holding individual health boards to account—something that we must do at a committee level—it would be helpful to be able to consider the Scottish Executive's central responsibility separately from the elements that are devolved to health boards and in which it decides priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
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      "ID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 242081,
      "EditedText": "We need to know the figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C242083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 242083,
      "EditedText": "At what point in the year do you anticipate releasing the details of the firm outturns? In how much detail are you prepared to convey those to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 242085,
      "EditedText": "We must be careful and distinguish whether we are dealing with provisional figures or final audited figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 242087,
      "EditedText": "The final audited figures will be available nearer Christmas, after the end of a financial year. We are keen to bring those forward, not least because that would help this process and it would, generally, be better practice. As many local authorities have found—and they have much smaller budgets than ours—bringing forward final audited figures is not always a straightforward process. However, that is a target that we have set ourselves, which we are keen to try to meet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 242089,
      "EditedText": "Sorry?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 242091,
      "EditedText": "That will relate back to the individual lines that were included in the authorities' spend at the beginning of the year. The audited accounts for last year would reflect the previous individual headings within the figures that were agreed for that year. The audited accounts for next year, coming in the year after that, would reflect those figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 242100,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to commit myself to a particular format. Where we can more accurately reflect individual baselines, compare them with one another and see where end-year flexibility has been taken up—whether it has been moved inside a department or from one department to another—I would like to provide that information. I am cautious about promising it in that sort of detail from year 1, but I would like to move in that direction, as it makes our decision making more transparent and it makes this committee's input into the decision-making process more viable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 242101,
      "EditedText": "If members have no other points on that, we will move on to talk about the consultation exercise. Can you give us a flavour of the responses that you have received in the consultation? To what extent have individuals—as opposed to organisations—engaged in the process and given their views?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C242105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 242105,
      "EditedText": "How do you see the two consultation processes fitting together? This has become more of an information exercise. Perhaps if the figures in that expensive glossy booklet that you produced had been broken down more, you would have received more responses. The consultation exercise will go on in a full year, as opposed to the compressed year that we have just had, and there is consultation through the committees pyramidally—for example the Health and Community Care Committee consults the health boards. How do you see the consultation exercise in spring and early summer and the one in autumn dovetailing together rather than confusing everybody?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242106",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 242106,
      "EditedText": "They are two very different exercises. The principle set out by the financial issues advisory group report was that this committee, and the Parliament, would almost be in the lead in the spring and early summer exercise. That stage of the budget was an opportunity for the Parliament's committees to make an input into the summer discussions that produced the spending plan in September of each year. I see that first stage in the annual process as being strategically led—based on a report from the Executive—but fairly open-ended and an opportunity for the Parliament's committees and other bodies to comment on the overall strategic priorities and to get more information. What was not really said by FIAG, but what I still believe is important, is that, when the Executive publishes its spending plans in September, it should make those plans widely available for the purposes of information and consultation. If nothing else happens to the consultation document and people have it on their shelf in advance of next year's consultative process, at least different organisations, key decision makers and some individuals who have taken a look at it will have a view and will be better informed as a result. That is a good thing. Consultation is a two-way process—it is about our informing people as well as about people giving us feedback. It was right and proper to test the water this year. I would be grateful, between now and next September, for comments from any organisation or individual about the nature and purposes of the document and how it could be improved. Everything that we do at the moment is a significant improvement on what came before, but everything we do can be improved much further. I want to take that approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 242107,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that if there are to be more responses, people and organisations will need to feel that the consultation is a meaningful process. That has to be proved as you go along. For example, \"Spending Plans for Scotland\" says that planned health spending will increase from £5 billion this year to £5.5 billion by 2001-02, which, the document says, fulfils the Executive's commitment\"to increase NHS spending substantially in real terms\".In fact, what is happening in real terms is that health spending is increasing from £5 billion to £5.2 billion. If I were in the health sector, I would want to know what the real information was and to give something meaningful back. It would be nice to see questions posed to individuals under each sector, asking what their priorities were on x, y or z. The document reads as a partially presented information sheet, rather than as a formal consultation. It highlights our point about real-terms figures—it suggests a £600 million increase in health spending, which is misleading, as the increase is in fact £200 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 242111,
      "EditedText": "Efficiency savings, perhaps, but not efficient for running a committee.We will now consider what we have heard and finalise our report, which, with the great help of the clerks, we will have in a fit state to present to the Parliament tomorrow."
    },
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    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 13:12."
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  {
    "ID": "C241994",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6347,
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:48"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6347,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 241996,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that item 4—consideration of our draft report—also be held in private. Are we agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6347,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 241997,
      "EditedText": "As members will be aware, the minister will be here at 11.30 this morning, after the cabinet meeting. If we have completed items 1 and 2, we will have a short adjournment before 11.30."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 242002,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that. I invite Keith and Andrew to outline their suggestions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 242010,
      "EditedText": "They tend to be short and sharp, taking place over a period of about three months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 242017,
      "EditedText": "We could identify a topic for the longer term now and invite the clerks to do some preliminary work and report back to us after the recess. A number of topics have been proposed: efficiency savings, European additionality, PFI and the Barnett formula. All four are substantial subjects, particularly the last three.The clerk is suggesting that, rather than our making a decision now, the clerks could supply us with suggested headings for topics, as they have in the paper that we are considering today. We could give the matter some thought and make a decision at an early meeting after the festive recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C242022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 242022,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether any of the topics would lend themselves to a rapporteur, rather than an inquiry. Could we not at least begin a preliminary investigation on, for example, European additionality, by appointing a rapporteur?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C242028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 242030,
      "EditedText": "I reconvene the 10th meeting of the Finance Committee by welcoming the Minister for Finance, Jack McConnell, who will give evidence this morning on the budget expenditure plans.Minister, your letter dated 9 November said that the committee would receive further detailed explanation of the figures before this meeting. We have not yet received such an explanation, although it might emanate from your responses this morning. I just wanted to note that point.As you would expect, minister, we want to raise a number of points with you. However, I do not have a registered batting order for committee members. Do you wish to make an opening statement?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 242036,
      "EditedText": "We use the same deflator—the gross domestic product deflator—in all budgets and estimates. Your question, Dr Simpson, perhaps points more to the future, and to whether that should remain the case. The GDP deflator is a better estimate of increasing costs than the retail prices index, which measures consumption by households, would be. Use of the GDP deflator across all services gives a more accurate picture. I imagine that, in the years to come, the committee will want to discuss how to reflect real costs across public services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 242031,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I apologise if there has been any misunderstanding. I understood that committee members had received the consultation document \"Spending Plans for Scotland\", which was what we meant by the further detailed information mentioned in the letter. However, I had also intended to make two things clear. First, I hope that, in future, the committee will receive detailed level 2 figures in real terms and an explanation of what elements of public expenditure and general provision are covered by each of the headings. That information will be provided either in the form of a revised consultation document or in another form that we can discuss as part of the process outlined in the written agreements. As we develop the process, such information will allow informed discussion both in this committee and in others.Secondly, the committee might have questions that, because of level of detail or other reasons, I will not be able to answer on the spot. I hope to provide the committee with answers to such questions by close of play today, as I am aware that the debate on these figures takes place tomorrow morning and I want committee members to have as many answers to their questions as possible in advance of that debate.Thank you very much for the invitation to attend the meeting. I have several introductory comments. Today's Finance Committee meeting is an important part of the budgetary process—it is all the more important because of the short time scale to which we have been operating in this transitional year. However, it is worth noting that, despite that time scale and the short time that the Parliament has existed, there has probably been more scrutiny of the Parliament's financial arrangements in the past six months than there would have been in six years in the House of Commons. That represents a progressive move on which we can build in years to come.The focus of today's meeting is different from that of 9 November, which was on the autumn supplementaries. On that day, we discussed the detail of the changes that we are making in the current year. Today's focus is the budget for 2000-01, as set out in the level 2 figures, which I have provided for the committee and which are contained in the consultation document, \"Spending Plans for Scotland\", which was published on 17 November. The published level 2 figures also extend to 2001-02, but I propose to concentrate on 2000-01 today, although committee members may wish to ask about other numbers. There will be a full budgetary cycle, starting next March, in which to discuss the 2001-02 figures. At this stage, they have the status of initial planning assumptions only. The proposed figures for next year will be the core of the Parliament's first budget bill. That bill will be introduced in January; we hope that it will complete its passage by 14 February. The committee's comments will inform the contents of the bill, so I hope that we have a good dialogue today and a good debate tomorrow. In \"Spending Plans for Scotland\", we consulted more widely on our plans. Despite the expected limited response, given the short time available for consultation, and as this is the first time that we have gone through this process, this has been an important first attempt to inform and involve people. Those who respond will have their views considered before the budget bill is introduced. End-year flexibility has been a public issue. It is not a quick fix that we dreamed up this year, but a result of the new innovative approach to public expenditure. It seeks to move the focus away from annual short-termism to a longer-term view of the fundamental needs and priorities. It was not that long ago that public expenditure was crippled by annuality, which created perverse incentives to spend because money was available. People developed a use-it-or-lose-it attitude that led to end-of-year sprees, which benefited only the few. The comprehensive spending review produces three-year spending plans. It is sensible, in a three-year envelope, that underspends in any one year should be rolled forward and used in subsequent years. In my view, that is about prudent budgeting and creating the right incentives for good management. It is essential that we overcome the problems of annuality and the idiocies that it created through the annual scramble to spend budget at the end of the financial year. A more measured system will be created that will focus on priorities and that rolls any unused spending forward to ensure that future priorities are met. The total budget for 2000-01 is £16.7 billion. Of that total, we allocate roughly £6 billion to local authorities and £5.2 billion to the health service. A further £2.2 billion goes to education and enterprise and £0.5 billion goes to communities, rural affairs, justice, transport and the environment. Within local authority expenditure, the grant-aided expenditure figures for 2000-01, which give only a guideline for what local authorities spend, indicate that they might spend a further £2.7 billion on education, £1.1 billion on social work, £0.7 billion on police and £0.2 billion on the fire service. Those spending plans reflect the importance that we attach both to the health of the nation and to the future success of the nation, as encouraged and developed by education. Our spending priorities for 2000-01 not only demonstrate our commitment to education and health but tackle the serious problems of housing and social exclusion and the decay in transport systems. They also help to sustain our environment—one of our key national assets. The plans include extra money for education as agreed in \"Partnership for Scotland\" and, as agreed among ministers, for roads and for tackling drugs and domestic abuse. They build on the comprehensive spending review and the additional resources that it provided for education, health, local government and roads. Our key priority in the new Scotland is social justice. We must make a start on delivering the kind of country that we want, where everyone, especially old people, can feel safe, where our children can achieve their full potential through a world-class education system, where creativity is not stifled and where enterprise is encouraged. We cannot do all that we want to do at once. None the less, this budget moves us on from the start that was represented by the autumn supplementaries and it provides the resources to tackle some of the serious issues facing Scotland. I will be happy to answer any questions about the expenditure plans."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 242043,
      "EditedText": "What was the thinking behind the decision to publish the budget in cash terms rather than in real terms?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 130
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 242053,
      "EditedText": "No, it is not."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242054",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 242054,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is. That is on record; to contest it is wrong. It is right and appropriate that the budget takes account of increasing costs in the health service including not only increasing staff and drug costs, but increasing costs for equipment and demand among the general population.The third question was about wages. I am surprised by Mr Wilson's point, although I am happy to respond to it. Our provision for employee costs includes a yearly efficiency target. That target has been met over the years and continues to be a priority. In a world where people expect public finances to be managed as efficiently as possible—they expect their taxes to be spent as efficiently as possible—we should continue to set those targets. I understood that to be the position of the committee and I think that it is the right one. To assume that those efficiency targets cannot be met, or that we should add to the employee costs an allowance for wage increases, would be to run counter to what every organisation—both public and private—must do in the world in which we live. That process drives us towards efficiencies that in turn lead to the reallocation of money, given that there is a real-terms increase in the overall budget. Unless we build in those targets, organisations tend to become complacent, repeating the budget year on year. It is right and proper that we continually challenge those assumptions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 242055,
      "EditedText": "We would like to know where that is happening. From what you are saying, the proportion of the budget made up from wages and salaries is decreasing; we would like to know how many people are being efficiency saved. How many jobs are going? Some of us would like to see more spent on labour provision in education and health, for example—we need more teachers and nurses. We would like to see some detail about where those efficiency savings are being made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 242056,
      "EditedText": "That is different from department to department. In the full annual process of budget determination, those are the kind of issues that I expect the committees to examine in detail, in terms of the strategies that are being developed to enable the different departments to achieve their targets. However, it is wrong to assume that, because efficiency targets are set for existing employee costs within the organisation, that leads to a reduction in the amount of money spent on staffing across the organisation. The purpose of the efficiency targets is to release resources for new areas. A good comparison might be that of Scottish local authorities, where staff costs have been driven down in traditional areas of service; in many cases, those resources have been released to finance new areas of service. That is true of parts of our budget and it should be a priority. We should be adaptable about what we spend our money on, so that the priorities in three years' time can be met. We must ensure that traditional practices and levels of expenditure are reviewed on an annual basis. I do not accept the assumption that wages expenditure is decreasing. Money is being released for new kinds of employment. For example, a few years ago, we did not have classroom assistants. New kinds of jobs are being created in the public sector as a result of the priorities that are being set for the years to come."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C242057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 242057,
      "EditedText": "As I am an intruder in this committee, I thank the convener for letting me ask some questions. I want to pick up Andrew Wilson's point about health. It has occurred to me that the percentages that Andrew mentioned are smaller than the in-year changes. In October, you announced a big increase to this year's health budget, which related to end-year flexibility among other things, and that was very welcome. How can we take account of that new dimension—end-year flexibility—which has a knock-on effect of a smaller percentage increase in the budget? Can that be reflected in the tables?My second question may not be strictly relevant to next year's budget. Are the changes to trust surpluses accounted for in the revised table of figures that we are considering, or are they outside the stated budget figures? I would appreciate a written reply if you do not have the answer to hand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 242060,
      "EditedText": "No, I think that we should do that at an earlier stage. We have a consistent deflator across the estimates but, as a result of the spending review process, we then make judgments about where real-terms increases—or, from time to time, decreases—are applicable to deal either with specific cost pressures or with a change in priority inside the health service. Your question, Mr Davidson, is perhaps based on the assumption that we start from budgets at certain levels and then increase them all by the same percentage. I do not think that that is what we as an organisation should be about. I certainly do not think that that is what the annual budget round will be about if we are serious about consultation and widespread discussion in the spring and autumn of every year, before we come to the final figures. Budgeting is about trying to estimate year-on-year increases and having a formula or general rule of provision for that; it is also about then making judgments about where within the overall figures priorities have changed or where certain pressures increase that require more allocation—or where pressures have relaxed and less money can be allocated. During the year, supplementary estimates are needed, partly to deal with unexpected pressures—there were examples of that in the estimates that were discussed at the meeting of this committee last month—and because, for example, if we get an allocation of money that is allocated by the Treasury across the UK as a whole, we cannot spend that money unless we have authority from the Parliament. That will happen during the year from time to time. Also, we might find that moneys are urgently needed in a particular area and that there is no authority to spend, so we have to make an allocation from a reserve or from retained in-the-year flexibility.Supplementary estimates are not part of a process that is designed to set budgets and then to wait and see what happens. The original estimates at the beginning of the year should be realistic estimates that are based on what we think is needed, available, or appropriate to allocate to a particular service in any one year. Frankly, across every budget heading, that will never be enough for anybody. The allocation for the Parliament building is probably not enough for the corporate body. The allocation for the health service will not be enough for all the boards and trusts. The allocation for education will not be enough for the schools. The allocation for universities will not be enough for them. The allocation for prisons will not be enough for the Prison Service, and so on. We all have responsibility to decide on priorities within those overall demands. It is right that all those services ask for more money to do things, but our job as politicians is to decide on the priorities."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C242061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 242061,
      "EditedText": "We get huge aggregated figures. For example, we cannot differentiate between what the two enterprise organisations, Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise, have spent their money on, because the figures are lumped together. If we continue with the level 2 system, the subject committees will not have enough detail to do their work—to home in on sub-budgets and sub-heads and on spending within divisions and departments. We have to set up systems to communicate with the other committees. That depends on getting disaggregated figures early each year. Such information might also answer some of the queries that you have just defended. What is your view on the different levels of information?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C242069",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
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      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 242069,
      "EditedText": "I take that point, but I want to move on to another issue. You said in an elegant contribution that, as politicians, we will decide the priorities, but the people on the ground will have to deal with our decisions. I want to raise two important examples of efficiency savings. Tayside Health Board, through efficiency savings, has cut administration costs to the bone—those are non-clinical savings, but it now has to consider clinical savings. To me, that is ominous and simply means health service rationing. Fife constabulary did not get the allocation it hoped for—it got 6.92 per cent less. Wages and pensions make up 86 per cent of its costs, and yet it has to make efficiency savings this year of 1 per cent, of 1.7 per cent next year and of 2.5 per cent the year after. The constabulary sees that as a cut of 14 per cent in its budget, which it does not think is sustainable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 242071,
      "EditedText": "I have already said that I do not think that we should run public services on the basis of budgets that are repeated year after year. The only way to release resources in any organisation—public or private—is continually to drive for efficiencies within existing budgets. It is right to set efficiency targets. The Parliament and the committees should have a serious discussion about the level, nature and spread of efficiency targets. There are always two critical elements in any budget round. First, there is the pro-active element: we must constantly scrutinise and set efficiency targets in order to finance new services and improvements to services. That is critical to the public sector budgeting process. Secondly, we must also recognise that there are very few—although there will be some—public sector organisations that would not like to have more money and that could not use it well. We are always in that situation.The overall level of public expenditure in Scotland—relating to the responsibilities of the Parliament—is increasing in real terms. Within that, the individual budget headings have top priorities, the funding of which is increasing in real terms. Spending in other areas is decreasing in real terms in order to pay for that. That is right and proper. The decisions on those priorities have to be made year on year. Individual councils, health boards and voluntary sector organisations will have comments on that and will want to make bids for more resources—that is part of the process. We should not ignore the fact that there are other things that people could spend money on, but we must remember that there is an overall total that we must work to and within which we must prioritise."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 242073,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is any difficulty providing information on elements of budgets for the purposes of discussion. All budgets have a series of estimates that make up the overall total. In recent months, I have answered questions on European structural funds and we have had to estimate what element of the total will be spent on objective 1 and transitional programmes and so on. Recently I gave an answer to a question about the budget lines for the Scottish Executive office in Brussels. That was broken down into budgets of £5,000, never mind the totals that we are discussing today.I am cautious about saying that we will provide that level of detail across the range of departments, annually. It is important that we evolve a system in which the committees and the ministers—in some cases the Finance Committee will have an overview—are able to request and discuss information in a targeted way. If, at the beginning of next year's round, the committees find that they want more detailed information, they are at liberty to request it, as appropriate. I suggest that it would be helpful for every committee to decide its priorities for scrutiny each year and to make requests on that basis. We could respond positively to that discussion. Even the level of scrutiny that we are considering today is a massive leap forward from what happened at Westminster. We are moving in the direction of discussion and scrutiny—that is new to the whole organisation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 242076,
      "EditedText": "Can I interrupt you there?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 242079,
      "EditedText": "I tried to interrupt you to say that all that you said, several sentences ago, is accepted. However, we are after the figures not just by line but by type of expenditure—for example, wages and salaries, administrative costs and so on. Can you undertake to provide that level of information?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 242084,
      "EditedText": "Are the 1998-99 outturn figures available yet? They were not included in the figures that were published."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C242088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 242088,
      "EditedText": "So, your target is late autumn. How much detail?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 242093,
      "EditedText": "There are some headings where things go below the level 2 figure within the accounts, even at the moment. I am keen to encourage that practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C242094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 242094,
      "EditedText": "Good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 242095,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify a point. You mentioned that the 1998-99 outturn figures would be available at Christmas. Once the pattern of a budget is established, when do you expect those figures normally to be available?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 242096,
      "EditedText": "We must be conscious of the fact that the Auditor General for Scotland is only just taking up position. We would want to have some discussion with Audit Scotland before we commit ourselves to a date. The strong indication is that we want to move that date forward from around Christmas, which is when it has been. I believe strongly that this process should be informed by the audited figures. In general, I am keen to discourage the production of audited accounts more than six months after the end of a financial year, although it is not always possible to produce them earlier. We must recognise that, and we must discuss with Audit Scotland the resources and the input that would be required to ensure that that happens."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 242097,
      "EditedText": "We may revisit that issue in a year's time. We want to make sense of planned expenditure, which is difficult to do without details of the outturns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 242098,
      "EditedText": "The other possibility, which we talked about in drafting the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill, is the production of in-year figures for monitoring. We must still discuss the best way in which we can provide that information. That will not be easy, but it is something that we can work towards over the next two years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C242099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 242099,
      "EditedText": "Minister, you have already covered the issue that I wanted to raise on underspends and overspends in relation to the outturn figures. You said that you would keep those figures separate, so that we can look at the outturn against the original budget and then add any end-of-year spend from the previous year. I do not know whether I am making that point clearly. This new flexibility, which allows us to roll money over, affects how one looks at the budget figures that one is working on. You will be able to keep the figures separate, so that we can know what the outturn was, separate from any additional end-of-year spend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 242102,
      "EditedText": "As we expected, the level of response from individuals is small. Indeed, the response overall will be very small. The consultation finishes tomorrow and we will produce a summary of it as quickly as possible. I have not seen any of the responses, so I would be making it up if I tried to give you a flavour of them. In future years, as we said when we launched the consultation in November and in our discussions with this committee, we must start the consultation process at an earlier stage in the autumn. The committee should remember that there will be a more widespread consultation process in spring and early summer. That is when the real meat of the consultation will take place—on priorities and overall strategy, rather than on the figures. I have been surprised that—as I understand it—the number of responses from organisations has not been large. I was anticipating in the first year more responses from organisations than from individuals. There has not been a queue of local authorities or other organisations submitting their responses. That could be because other consultations are going on at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 242103,
      "EditedText": "Are you satisfied that the consultation exercise was sufficiently widely known about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 242109,
      "EditedText": "Minister, I thank you and your officials for coming here today and being so open and frank with the information provided. I apologise for the inadequate heating in the room—that is something that we will take up separately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C242110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 242110,
      "EditedText": "Efficiency savings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 241998,
      "EditedText": "Item 1 is consideration of possible topics for our first inquiry. The clerks have circulated a paper outlining a number of proposals. We can consider other topics, and if anyone has any suggestions, they should make them as soon as possible in the discussion so that we know the range of topics from which we can choose. I note that Keith Raffan and Andrew Wilson have suggestions.Let us look briefly at the topics suggested in the document, before considering the other suggestions. Do members have any comments on the general text about timing and the criteria that apply? It is fairly straightforward.We welcome the fact that our proposed change to standing orders, extending the remit of this committee, has been accepted and is soon to be implemented. We sought that change and we have achieved it. There are three suggested topics in the document: tax-varying powers; quangos; and Treasury functions. The areas that could be covered under those headings are also listed. Are there any comments on those topics? I have a personal preference, but we can come to that in due course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 241999,
      "EditedText": "Our agenda has been tight so far and we should not overburden ourselves, so planning ahead beyond this year would be useful. I therefore suggest that an inquiry into tax-varying powers is one that can wait. The Executive's current position is quite clear, so it would be premature to discuss it at this stage. Of the three topics listed here, the most attractive is the structural issue of Treasury functions. With proper evidence, that inquiry could be done reasonably quickly. I am not sure that it would be our role to investigate quangos, although it is a tempting topic in many ways. I would not oppose such an inquiry, but I think that we have other priorities under our financial remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C242000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 242000,
      "EditedText": "I have some sympathy with Andrew Wilson's point of view. We have had a clear declaration from the minister on tax-varying powers, and that is something that we could consider in year 3 or year 4. By then, having had a couple of goes at normal budget procedure, we should have a better idea of what is happening.The quango and Treasury suggestions are interesting. We do not have time to do both inquiries this year. I suspect that we will have to look at quangos during the coming year, but that is something that we may be able to do during the next session. This year, we should stick with the Treasury functions to get a handle on what is happening in that department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C242001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 242001,
      "EditedText": "I would like Andrew Wilson and Keith Raffan to tell us what other ideas they have. I agree with what has been said so far—that tax-varying powers are not a priority—but I would like to hear the full range of suggested topics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C242011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 242011,
      "EditedText": "Some notorious inquiries have gone on for 12 to 18 months, so that by the time people come to draft the report, they have forgotten the evidence that they originally took. There are a number of advantages, particularly until the committee settles down, in doing a short, sharp inquiry as a practice run. It would need to be on something that was not too complex and on which we could produce a solid piece of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C242006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 242006,
      "EditedText": "I was going to mention the Barnett formula as my second point. Unless we could break it down into a series of reports on different elements, it would be a fairly major inquiry. Sooner or later we will have to consider it, if only because of the convergence in terms of spending per head in Scotland and in England. That will put pressures on the Scottish block and the Scottish budget. Whether we like it or not, that is not an issue that we can evade, however much it stirs up public opinion down south. I refrained from mentioning it, however, because I thought that we would be working to a tight schedule between January and Easter. Until we get into our stride, I think that it would be better to concentrate on something else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 242009,
      "EditedText": "As experienced Westminster operators, convener, can you and Keith Raffan offer some guidance on how long such inquiries take there?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C242012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 242012,
      "EditedText": "These are all topics of interest. If we want to have a short, sharp inquiry to start with, Treasury functions would be an appropriate subject. The topic that is labelled here as quangos relates to creative modelling, which, no doubt, the finance department will want to do over the next year. There will be a lot of pressures as to how things are delivered, and there will be debates about enterprise systems and so on. Our second inquiry might, therefore, be on quangos. We could conduct the PFI inquiry in parallel with consideration of the budget next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 242019,
      "EditedText": "I was not suggesting that. I was simply seeking to identify the next topic for an inquiry. We have two or three choices. There may not be any great benefit in making that decision today, if we can have more information on which to base the decision at our first or second meeting after the recess. Is that acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 242021,
      "EditedText": "I am on the same committee, so I know what you are talking about. I agree that we should avoid that, if possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 242023,
      "EditedText": "That is a particularly appropriate subject for a rapporteur, given the history of the post. Again, we can take suggestions and further information from the clerks when we meet again after the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 242025,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that we are allowed to discuss that today, given that British MEPs are boycotting the opening of the new Strasbourg Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 242026,
      "EditedText": "Not all of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C242029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 242029,
      "EditedText": "The meeting resumed in public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 242033,
      "EditedText": "Yes. There is absolutely no doubt about that. We will be happy to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 242034,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 242038,
      "EditedText": "The reason for using the GDP deflator is that it is the most wide-ranging deflator that can be used to be consistent across all figures. Clearly, within departments and divisions, managers and ministers will examine the impact of increasing costs in different areas. If we start from the creation of an overall budget, based on one consistent deflator, managers and ministers have the opportunity, under individual budget headings, to reallocate cash to reflect the fact that costs are increasing more in one area than in another. That does not work across departments, and it is where the spending review process should apply. To move away from a consistent deflator would be a radical step—although not one that we should not discuss—but it is more important in the short term that, in our spending review process, we assess the effect of increased costs and consider whether the deflators that we use actually represent the increased cash cost. That should be reflected in our estimates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C242039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 242039,
      "EditedText": "Following on from Richard Simpson's point, I believe that the use of a uniform deflator is hugely simplistic. Dr Simpson mentioned the pharmaceutical budget; I am sure that you have read the most recent edition of Public Finance magazine and have considered the significance of inflation for the pharmaceutical budget in the past year and how that has hit health authorities—Fife is £1 million over budget, as is Tayside. I have yet to see where ministers anticipated that happening. You have said that it is up to ministers to reallocate within budgets and that they will be sensitive to the problem and anticipate it, yet they have not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 242042,
      "EditedText": "At the beginning of my evidence, I mentioned a desire to include in future years more explanation of figures and of some of the underlying issues. To have an informed discussion—not just in this committee, but following your example, in the Health and Community Care Committee—the assumptions that the department has to make about increased costs must be built into the budget. That will allow committee members to assess whether the resources that have been made available are at the right level of priority for that particular service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 242044,
      "EditedText": "That was a consistent pattern. It was felt that that provided the immediate information that would be most relevant in terms of choices and priorities. More important than the figures themselves are the explanations of what they substantiate. Our challenge is to try to find a way of explaining figures publicly, allowing people outside the Parliament—as well as those inside—fully to engage and understand the decisions that we make and the priorities that we set. We must face that challenge in the spring and autumn of next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 242047,
      "EditedText": "The total budget for 2000-01 in real terms is £15.897 billion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 242048,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Parliament Information Centre has provided us with these figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 242050,
      "EditedText": "We seem to be using two different sets of figures. There was an issue about the change to the GDP deflator, which I would be happy to expand on before tomorrow morning, if that would be helpful. The budget increase is in real terms—that is an important fact that should not be missed.The second issue that Mr Wilson mentioned was the health service. It is clear that the increase in resources for the health service is substantial. The impact of increasing costs for drugs and so on was taken into account both before the Parliament was set up and when we set out next year's figures. There is a real-terms increase."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 242051,
      "EditedText": "Next year's increase is 0.8 per cent. Given that 50 to 60 per cent of the health budget relates to labour costs and that wages and salaries are increasing across the economy at 4 per cent, that implies a real-terms cut in health spending."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 242052,
      "EditedText": "Not if one assumes that the health service is becoming an ever more efficient organisation. That target should always be set and resources should be prioritised within it. The increase in the health service budget is in real terms. The increase over last year, this year and the next year is the largest that has ever taken place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 242058,
      "EditedText": "I would indeed be happy to give a written reply to your final point, Malcolm. One of the reasons why I said at the beginning of my evidence that I am keen to provide more explanation about the figures in future years is that a number of issues can appear to affect the level of real-terms or cash-terms increase or decrease. There are one-off issues each year, and that should be spelt out in a particular budget. As a result of the use of around £300 million of end-year flexibility money this year, some of this year's budget figures increase for certain one-off payments. That appears to result in a much smaller increase for next year than is actually the case on baseline figures. There are also a number of cases in which departmental surpluses have been built up over the years and only now, under the new rules, can they be released. There are cases—one of which is being discussed in another committee this afternoon—in which surpluses that built up over the years have been reallocated within the overall programme. Decisions will be made on such cases, and it is important that we find a way of explaining them so that the year-on-year comparison, whether a percentage increase or, at times, a percentage decrease, is as accurate as it can be. When providing the figure, one-off additions or reductions in a particular year—whether they are for technical reasons or are because of some cash being available—should be taken into account. As an Administration and as a Parliament, I think that we will regularly have one-off formula consequentials from the Treasury, in which a one-off expenditure is agreed for England and Wales and we in Scotland get the formula payment for it. It will not be repeated for the next year, the year after or the year after that, but it is in this year's budget, and it affects the percentages as they fluctuate. Malcolm Chisholm has made a good point about how we can, perhaps, identify such figures more clearly in years to come, and I am happy to take his comments on board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C242059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 242059,
      "EditedText": "If I heard correctly, minister, you talked about using a standard deflator. We discussed how that affects the health service. At Westminster, there are up-to-date figures on the drugs budget, for example. Are you suggesting that when using the standard deflator, which does not apply to the subsections within a budget, you will merely resort to the supplementaries that you talked about earlier? In your presentation you mention using a spring supplementary as well. Is that your way of trying to tackle the problem, or are you looking to change the deflators in future? You made a statement early in your remarks about having come to the committee and the Parliament suggesting the use of supplementaries once. You are talking about doing that again—it is the second time that you have mentioned it. Are you doing it because the budget was not designed correctly to cope with the situation that we are in? Health boards are screaming out that they cannot cope with the 2000-01 figures, and they name the lines in which there are problems: wages, drugs and two or three others. They are doing that very publicly. Is it your view that, every year, you will operate on a basic formula and use the supplementaries to tidy up where you think necessary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 242064,
      "EditedText": "Each committee may have its own way of operating. It should be a matter for discussion between each committee and the relevant minister. Some committees might want a general discussion about outputs, overall targets, or the level of service. They might want to discuss particular issues that affect the budget, or they might want to discuss more detailed figures than are provided by totals such as these.For example, the budget of the rural affairs department, in which the Rural Affairs Committee will be interested, is a very different beast from the budget for local government in Scotland. The rural affairs budget is largely tied down to specific amounts that are linked to European grant schemes, whereas budgets for areas such as local government or, to some extent, health, are much larger and much more wide-ranging and flexible.As we are learning the process and developing a new system, I think it is appropriate to give ministers and committees the opportunity in spring and summer to consider what is best for their particular areas of expenditure. I would not want to predetermine how best to do that. I hope that the process is as informative as possible and involves individual members in setting the priorities that are agreed in the budget later in the year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 242065,
      "EditedText": "That is very clear.David Davidson hit the nail on the head on what this committee is seeking to do, and you talked about outcomes. How are we to judge anything within a budget process and how are we to consult with other committees as part of that process—to an extent, we have to arbitrate on behalf of the Parliament—if we do not know the outcomes? I suppose that this comes back to what we have been discussing throughout: can you undertake to give us information beyond these vote numbers, to tell us what proportion is going on labour costs, how labour costs are rising, what proportion within health is going on pharmaceutical provision and how costs for that are rising? Figures for money going in are meaningless to the electorate. It is interested in the outcomes of budget decisions. To put it simply, if as a result of a budget a Wishaw hospital has an extra £100 million one year but has fewer nurses and pharmaceuticals, I am more interested in the second result than the first. To make such judgments, we need to know volume outturns. Can you undertake to provide with the budget an idea of the proportion of labour costs, and how they are rising, and a breakdown of costs of service delivery points such as pharmaceutical provision, and other costs such as capital, rent and running costs?We are more interested in outputs than inputs, as inputs alone are meaningless. I do not know whether you caught any of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 242068,
      "EditedText": "I made a number of points about that during this exchange, which we need to consider in a flexible, responsive way. Health is an example of a large budget that covers a number of different areas. We must be careful, as we work towards the full budget round, that we do not mix up detailed discussion on individual budget headings with a more detailed, specific, less flexible route that would over-control the authority to spend. I imagine that the Health and Community Care Committee will discuss allocations to health boards, health trusts and different elements of the health budget as part of its response to the Arbuthnott report, never mind as part of a discussion about the annual budget round. However, that is not the same as either this committee, the Parliament or the Executive being specific at this stage about the control total of expenditure for each health board for next year. All the evidence points to the fact that I am keen to have discussions that are as informed as possible. There is a difference between discussions on some of these figures with full information available—as detailed as required—and having control totals that are broken down too far and that therefore reduce the flexibility of ministers or managers to run the service in the interests of the people whom we are here to serve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 242070,
      "EditedText": "It is a bit unfair to expect a response on a specific case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C242074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 242074,
      "EditedText": "We do not want to get bogged down on the issue and what you have said is reasonably clear. However, I have made some quick calculations and, of the 70 lines of expenditure that you provide at level 2, two lines account for 57 per cent of the total. We clearly need more information and we are requesting that now. We need information on price rises in different categories. We do not expect you to use a different deflator. We must draw together a report on the budget and that must be included. We would like you to consider the matter. It is the committee's cross-party view that we need that information. It is not meaningful for us to say that spending on child care must be increased and for you to ask where to find the money if we do not know where other cuts will be made. If you want the feedback that you have suggested, we require more information. Although we understand your reticence, it would be helpful if you were to provide the information that we are requesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 242075,
      "EditedText": "If the Finance Committee were to make that request, it should not make it about one of the two headings that you pinpoint. I presume that one of the budget lines to which you referred was that of local government. However, the figure below the level 2 figures is that of the individual allocations to local authorities. That kind of budget is different from the one that would include spending on Scottish Enterprise or Highlands and Islands Enterprise, for example, which is why the local government budget is so large at level 2. That is why I would like people to be specific about which details are helpful.The scrutiny of the priorities and strategy for the budget, which is a revolutionary new step in parliamentary budget scrutiny—we were unable to carry it through this year, but it will take place next year, beginning in the spring—will involve a discussion about the way in which resources are allocated between different boards and trusts, for example. That will be discussed by the Health and Community Care Committee and the information will be available to the Finance Committee; it is already under discussion as a result of the Health and Community Care Committee's work on the Arbuthnott report. Although it might sound ideal for the Health and Community Care Committee to discuss such matters as part of the annual budget round, by April or May, that committee might want to discuss something else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 242077,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to respond. You mentioned two substantial budget headings. That is a good example of what can helpfully take place at stage 1 of the budget round. At this stage, however, it would be wrong for the control totals to include that level of detail. For example, within the overall health line, the Executive or the minister responsible should be able to reallocate money to health boards in an emergency, if that is required, during the winter. It would be unrealistic and unhelpful for the health service, which must address those priorities, to specify in the control totals in the authorities' spend each year the individual allocations to health boards. I accept what you are saying about the need to have more information at the right stage in the budget process, to inform advice and decisions—I accepted that in my first sentence this morning. However, any changes to the control totals, at this stage of the budget, would have to be very carefully considered. I am not averse to suggestions on that. I hope that, between now and next autumn, in the good dialogue that we have as a committee and as a team, we can consider the ways in which the accessibility of the figures can be improved and the suitability of their levels assessed. The figures can be changed only very carefully. We have devised the ones that are in front of the committee today carefully, because of the new departments. Some of the figures are amalgamations of previous totals that were spread across three or four departments, and some are broken down more than they have ever been before. We are in year 1 of that process and of the new departments, and I imagine that next year's totals may automatically be adjusted from these ones—never mind any views that the committee might have—as we will know how the new departments are working one year on.I am sorry if that was a long answer, but those are important points. There are several different stages to the process, and it is important that we stick to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C242078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 242078,
      "EditedText": "I am keen to move on, as we have spent a long time on this. I shall allow one last question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 242080,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to give glib answers to questions that seem straightforward but are not. You mentioned the fact that the local government line takes up a huge proportion of the overall budget. It is not for the Parliament or the Executive to determine how much of that money is spent on wages and salaries. It might be appropriate, as part of the review of local authority expenditure, for the Local Government Committee to consider whether staffing costs are rising or falling in local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 242082,
      "EditedText": "There is a balance to be struck so that the Executive and the Parliament are not seen to be interfering with bodies that rightly have their own decision-making structures and the ability to spend—local authorities, in particular. The Audit Committee has received a submission about the auditing of local authorities. A balance must be struck between their independence, as individual elected bodies, and our scrutiny of the overall control totals of local authorities and the distribution of money within them. We must be cautious. It would be easy for me to say, \"We can take this whole budget and provide staffing cost figures for the whole budget today.\" However, there are different kinds of staffing cost figures within that budget: there are those that are rightly and properly matters for individual bodies that have independent expenditures, which we must respect, and there are those over which we have much more direct control. There has been no difficulty, in recent weeks, in providing parliamentary answers that detail information such as the staff costs in different areas. Providing that kind of information, for informed discussion in this or any other committee, should not be difficult for the Executive or the Parliament. However, to give a broad-brush answer to a question such as Andrew Wilson's might create expectations, and I would be cautious about that. Different areas within the budget must be treated differently. I stand firm on that, and will treat any requests that are made on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C242086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 242086,
      "EditedText": "It is the final ones that I am asking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C242090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 242090,
      "EditedText": "How much detail will be given?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C242092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 242092,
      "EditedText": "Basically, we are talking about level 2. A lot of work could be saved, for this committee and others, if there were more detailed breakdowns in the final outturns. That would give us a lead to look for the very points that members have made this morning about shuffling money about within a zero-sum budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 242104,
      "EditedText": "We circulated 1,830 copies of the document to a range of public and private organisations in Scotland. Copies were placed in libraries across Scotland for information purposes. As you know, I felt that that was important. They were also placed in schools across Scotland for school classes to use.The launch was not widely publicised, which presumably had an effect. The fact that it was happening so late in the year and on such a short time scale will have affected the number of responses. We knew that it would, but I took the view that the consultation was still worth carrying out, despite the fact that it was happening six months after it would normally happen. Even if the document was going out only for information purposes and we did not get many responses, at least people in different organisations across Scotland would be more aware of what we spent our money on. The consultation exercise is about information and involvement. We have started down the road of information, but we may have some way to go before we get detailed involvement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C242108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 6349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 242108,
      "EditedText": "I made the point in my first sentence this morning about hoping to provide real-terms figures next year. I would like to improve the explanation and to be in a situation in which we can pose questions. Whether those questions are posed in the autumn of each year or in the spring and summer is a matter that I need to discuss with this committee, as the committee is responsible for that. I suspect that the time for questions might be the spring/summer consultation. The autumn consultation and information exercise might more appropriately be a detailed explanation of the Executive's plans, to which people could respond. We are in the process of learning; Andrew Wilson's comments are helpful in that process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9620259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C242018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1403
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 6348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 242018,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we select a topic to be dealt with first and, perhaps, the next topic for an inquiry. To pin ourselves down on all the inquiries that we intend to carry out over the next two years might not be sensible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:10.9697448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 6014,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6014,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Hugh Henry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 233293,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to this meeting of the European Committee. Apologies have been received from Irene Oldfather. Tavish Scott will be late, as he is travelling from Shetland. I do not know what the weather there is like, but if it is anything like it is here, he might be some time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 233299,
      "EditedText": "We have taken great steps to try to bridge the gap between the two programmes, and contingency arrangements are now in place. I would not want to alarm anybody by suggesting that the situation is as serious as you have described, but the sooner the plan is submitted and discussions with the Commission can be initiated, the sooner it can be approved. That would ensure the minimum risk to existing projects and the people involved in them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 233300,
      "EditedText": "In other words, you want to resolve this matter as soon as possible to avoid any disruption."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 233296,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister. As you say, this is a bulky document. However, I found the way in which the information is structured helpful. I note what you say about the document remaining strategic in its approach.You mentioned implementation and monitoring. You will note that in the letter I wrote to you on behalf of the committee I emphasised that, for us, this is not the final stage in the process. We want to come back not only to this plan, but to the other plans, to see how they have been implemented and to ensure that the monitoring and operational issues are considered closely. We will, no doubt, discuss that again.Before I open up the discussion, can I ask you to confirm the legal deadline for submission of the plan to the Commission?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 233297,
      "EditedText": "There is no formal legal deadline for the plan. Any deadlines should be self-imposed, because the sooner we get the plan agreed, the sooner we will have authority to move forward with the new programme. Our wish has always been to submit the plan before Christmas. If we go on past Christmas and new year, we could lose up to a month in the final stage, which is securing of approval and getting projects under way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 233303,
      "EditedText": "By specifying an age bracket in the plan, we were not ruling out support for other age groups or for people who fall outwith the 40 to 50 age bracket—which I am soon to join. It was important that the plan reflected the priorities in terms of age groups and other matters. The 40 to 50 age bracket is a priority for us, but it is not an exclusive priority that rules out people who are either younger or older."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 233307,
      "EditedText": "A lot of us are aware that the funding will reduce in 2006. I am keen for much of that funding to go towards preparing the way for sustainable projects. The global grant is designed to cut through a lot of red tape and to get money straight into the voluntary sector; but will there be help for the voluntary sector to develop other means of funding, for when that money goes?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 233310,
      "EditedText": "A mid-term evaluation has been built into the new programme; but I want to build in more frequent evaluation. As the convener suggested, we should build in a regular process of review and evaluation, which is in line with the committee's thinking. With the amount of money that is available, and with the changes that are constantly taking place in the economy and among the work force and those who are out of work, it is important that we respond to developments, that we discover where the plan is successful and where it is less successful, and that we shift either resources or emphasis accordingly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 233311,
      "EditedText": "As I mentioned, the committee is keen to have regular reviews and monitoring, not just for this plan but for others. Could your officials let the clerk to this committee know about suggestions for your timetable for considering reviews and monitoring, so that we can plan accordingly? I do not want the committee to fix a timetable, only to find that yours is different. We will discuss that at a future meeting, but it would be helpful to work together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C233313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 233313,
      "EditedText": "My questions are on the same theme, minister. In your statement, you talked about getting people who are out of work back into work, which is a laudable objective that is shared by this committee. Given that the medium to short-term prospects of the Scottish economy are, in so far as they can be predicted, favourable; and given that, at any time, company development and industrial programmes can change, in either a European or a global context, and can threaten the livelihoods of hundreds if not thousands of our fellow citizens; and given that no constituency is immune from such market fluctuations, will the minister give further consideration to the support that can be provided to redundant workers via objective 3? Will he look closely at whether objective 3 funds can be used as part of a support package for people newly made redundant by large-scale industrial closures, market fluctuation or whatever? And will he publish a feasibility study of such a use of those funds?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 233316,
      "EditedText": "There is no problem with that funding being used, but the judgment that we have to make on each occasion is whether it is the right tool at the right time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C233317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 233317,
      "EditedText": "Therefore a feasibility study would be a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 233320,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I apologise for being thick on this issue, minister, but I am trying to get a handle on how we interpret the use of these moneys. The committee's draft report states that one of the priorities of the programme is\"promoting entrepreneurship and supporting individuals engaged in new business formation\".Briefly, are there some examples of that? I am not sure what that means. I can see the good intentions, but how much money is there and how do we explain this funding to people so that we direct them to either the general fund or the specific programmes? I am not sure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 233328,
      "EditedText": "Section 10.5 of the operational programme addresses gender imbalance. Paragraph 10.5.10 lists:\"The barriers to labour market entry resulting in women being unable to access training and / or employment\".This morning, I visited the Women's Technology Centre in Stirling, to find out about the key barriers to women who want to enter the labour market. One barrier is the number of available training places, which at the moment could be filled four or five times over. Provision is inadequate. We like to think that—Interruption. What is happening?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 233330,
      "EditedText": "It is not always possible to provide more places. However, the type of training that is given at the Women's Technology Centre is vital to getting back into the labour market.My second point concerns what happens once the training is complete and work has begun. There should be a more holistic approach. The Stirling unit tries to give support and considers whether some of the women could undertake voluntary work if they are unable to get a job right away. It helps them to consider the opportunities that are available, and arranges job placements as part of the training.Although the document does not cover implementation, we should take a holistic approach, following women through. I know that Cathy Jamieson will mention child care, and that is the sort of issue that we should consider. Child care may be stopped after the training period and there may be a lull before a job becomes available. The document does not take as holistic an approach to such issues as it could, but perhaps that is coming later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C233332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 233332,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener, for allowing me to join you from the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee. My question is on how the plan relates to the Executive's social inclusion strategy. How do you see objective 3 funding being used, in particular in relation to social inclusion partnership projects? I am concerned, as members of the European Committee are, about sustainability beyond 2006. Rather than embarking on new projects, should we be enhancing existing provision, so that expectations are not raised, only for them to be dashed, and so that we do not start projects, only for them to end prematurely?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 233335,
      "EditedText": "Measure 2.1, addressing exclusion of thematic groups, can be found on page 185 of the plan. The measure targets exclusion across the whole of Scotland rather than urban or rural exclusion, which are covered in other sections of the programme. The plan team has been conscious of the need to take an approach across Scotland, but has been keen to do that in a way that adds to what is on the ground. When we establish the monitoring committees and do the initial work to develop criteria for projects, every effort must be made, given the decline in resources, to use resources to complement what is already on the ground."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 233339,
      "EditedText": "The committee's suggestion that there should be a specific study into that is useful. It has sometimes been possible for European funds to be used on a case-by-case basis as part of a package to help an area. However, some large, well supported budgets are already available at short notice for that purpose. Those budgets should be used first. If projects backed by European funding can play a role, that is fine and well, but they should play a complementary role rather than be perceived as measures that rescue an area. They should not replace concerted Government and local government action with much larger budgets and wider responsibilities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 233341,
      "EditedText": "A maximum of 45 per cent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 233342,
      "EditedText": "So the matched funding will double the total amount to address that issue, which means more than £92 million will be available. That is a considerable sum of money and highlights the significance of European funding. Are the people who have drafted the plan confident that the matched funding will be available to make it work effectively? The last thing we need is for sums of money to be allocated for critical projects, only to find that potential partners do not have the funds to make them work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 233343,
      "EditedText": "I understand that concern, which is partly why we have to continue to review the programme's performance. If decisions made elsewhere block matched funding for this programme, or if the programme fails to deliver, we need to respond to those problems. However, the allocations have been identified in terms of the priority given to each area and of the availability of matched funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C233346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 233346,
      "EditedText": "And I did not even mention it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 233348,
      "EditedText": "I would like to throw that point open to the committee. The minister has asked to hear the committee's views on the suggested breakdown by block. Any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 233351,
      "EditedText": "Five of the priority programmes—1.1, 1.2, 4A.2, 4A.3 and 4B.2—would be covered in that way. For reference, the page number is 276 of the plan, where there is a fairly detailed explanation of the concentration of resources in objective 2 areas. The percentages have been chosen after a lot of discussion in the plan team; they have not just been plucked out of the air."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 233355,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 233359,
      "EditedText": "I understand that, but why has 55 per cent been targeted into objective 2 if it might go to the same area but not be tied into the same projects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 233361,
      "EditedText": "We will try to exhaust this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 233363,
      "EditedText": "Although some individual wards are covered by full status for the objective 2 fund, or by the transition stage for the objective 2 fund, we should recognise that a fair bit of objective 3 money will go towards projects that stretch across many wards and target people rather than geographical areas. The flexibility of decision making on individual projects will be important. Given the nature of objective 3, I expect some priority to be given not just to the areas I mentioned in the wider reaches of the central belt, but to others, for example in the rural north-east, which were on the old objective 2 map. There are parts of the north-east community that will definitely require support from objective 3 in the new round. I hope that the decision-making teams that we put in place for individual projects will bear that in mind—they will certainly be guided in that direction by me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 233364,
      "EditedText": "I want to question the wisdom of this. Because of the type of projects with which we are dealing in objective 3, are you not tying your hands by insisting that some of them should be targeted in some areas? There is no accounting for where business start-ups occur, or for the types of business or training networks that there will be. You might tie your hands if you say that 55 per cent will go to a certain area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C233367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 233367,
      "EditedText": "My next question focuses on the geographical disadvantage that affects lone parents, who are recognised as a disadvantaged group. In section 4, under \"Transport\", the plan clearly recognises the difficulties for lone parents, particularly those in rural areas for whom public transport is either not available or prohibitively expensive. In section 10, the plan talks about the need to address rural exclusion and child care issues—it identifies the need for child care as high, but refers to low availability. Sylvia Jackson mentioned one of the problems with previous programmes, where child care was linked to training opportunities—it was available for a period and then stopped. Such an approach is not beneficial for the lone parent or for the child, if the aim is to provide continuity in good child care practice. Will attempts be made to target lone parents and to cut across those issues, rather than to allow the issue to be compartmentalised, as has happened in the past? Can we ensure that meeting child care and transport costs is seen as a key way in which to empower women in rural areas in particular, to enable them to take up the available opportunities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C233369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 233369,
      "EditedText": "I wish to return to the co-ordination of objective 2 and 3, as it is particularly important for areas such as the south of Scotland, which will benefit from objective 2 funding. Although, as you said, the two funding streams have different objectives, with proper planning and strategic thought they could be brought together to produce the most beneficial package for the community. That, rather than the divvying-up approach, is important. I ask you to take that on board. I also wish to return to the issue of small rural projects and their eligibility for and access to objective 3 funding, which I raised with you during the debate on structural funds. Are you satisfied that the plan, as currently drawn up, is accessible and that funding will be available for small projects that do not have the headline numbers that others have referred to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 233371,
      "EditedText": "David Mundell raised an issue that concerns many people. You said that projects should be judged on quality. We share your aspiration that projects must make a qualitative contribution to an area. However, there is a feeling that larger groups, which are better used to applying for European funding, which understand the system and which have the resources to support their applications, find it easier to access that funding than smaller groups. Smaller groups might have a quality project but might be disadvantaged or put off by a relatively complicated bidding system. Life is easier for those who disburse funds if they have only a handful of relatively big projects to push the money out to—there is less work for them to do. If we are to make a genuine difference to communities across Scotland—through objective 2 funding, transitional funding or funding of any other kind—we must have an assurance that the people who are responsible for that funding will extend the availability of information and, in particular, support to all applicants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 233373,
      "EditedText": "I have a short question that relates to paragraph 4 of the draft report, under heading 1, where reference is made to the Highlands and Islands. Will the same principles that we have discussed today, which are included in the draft report, be followed in providing parallel assistance to the Highlands and Islands?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 233374,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 233378,
      "EditedText": "Do members of the committee want to raise any other points with the minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 233381,
      "EditedText": "I blame you for everything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 233384,
      "EditedText": "It is our job to make a decision on the plan, rather than to put it together. Obviously, our officials are involved in that, but the plan is produced by a partnership of the various organisations that will be involved in objective 3. We are now at the decision-making stage; I am here today to hear the committee's views so that I can take them on board before decisions are made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 233388,
      "EditedText": "That is a slightly different point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 233389,
      "EditedText": "It is a specific point that I think is interesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 233391,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 233392,
      "EditedText": "The next item on our agenda concerns the dates and times of future meetings. We have agreed that we will meet in Glasgow. We are still negotiating the availability of facilities. It has been suggested that meetings in Glasgow should take place on Monday afternoons rather than on Tuesdays, but I want to know why the facilities are not available at our regular time slot. As soon as the clerk has resolved that problem, we will return to the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 233399,
      "EditedText": "Could you ask in that letter whether it would be possible to have a statement on the matter, either tomorrow or the day after?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 233401,
      "EditedText": "During which week will that be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 233404,
      "EditedText": "We will certainly check that.The clerks have arranged for tea, coffee and Christmas mince pies to be available in the tea room after the meeting. To those who are unable to wait, I wish a happy Christmas and a good new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 233405,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:16."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 233294,
      "EditedText": "This afternoon we meet to discuss the objective 3 operational plan and we welcome again the Minister for Finance, Mr Jack McConnell. As this is our last meeting before Christmas, we asked whether Santa Claus could attend, but he sent his deputy, Mr McConnell, instead. I do not know what goodies he has to give us this afternoon.I shall ask the minister to introduce the plan and I will then open the debate up for discussion. We have submitted to the minister some general comments from our previous committee meeting and some views that were developed in discussions between Mr Chalmers and representatives of each of the political groups. This afternoon we have the opportunity to develop that dialogue further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 233301,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. This is about the people who are employed in the programmes and the continuing viability of the projects, as well as being about those who benefit from them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 233295,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. Once again, I am pleased to meet the committee to continue our constructive discussions as we prepare for the new round of structural funds. The objective 3 plan is part of a package to ensure that we continue to get a good deal for Scotland in the allocation of structural funds. In Scotland, we will receive 9.7 per cent of the UK's total objective 3 allocation, compared with our population share of 8.65 per cent. Looking towards the future, the Highlands and Islands plan has been received by the European Commission and we have been able to suggest some amendments to our objective 2 map, on which the Commission will soon make a decision.The plan that is before the committee today is the work of the objective 3 plan team, which has had to perform a considerable and detailed task. Like all the plan teams it included representatives of the key partners in the programme, including the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, Scottish Enterprise, the further and higher education sectors and the Equal Opportunities Commission. The plan team has been meeting fortnightly since February. That has required a massive commitment of time and effort by all those involved. On behalf of the Scottish Executive I thank them for their efforts.I would also like to say something about the consultation process that has played such a significant role in shaping the document. Pages 254 and 255 of the document include a table that summarises the consultation process. I hope that the committee will note the number of workshops, seminars, focus groups, information sessions and so on that were held. Members might also note the number of participants, which is set out in the right-hand column. It has taken 10 months to prepare the plan, and that table shows why. This is the kind of open and transparent consultation process with which the Scottish Executive is pleased to be associated. I appreciate all the contributions to the consultation.The committee has had the opportunity to consider the document and will have questions to ask me, so I do not intend to take up too much time with my opening remarks. There are, however, some issues that I want to draw to members' attention.First, I have publicly exhorted all the plan teams to ensure that, as far as possible, the new structural fund programmes support and enhance the Scottish Executive's policies and priorities. That is reflected in the objective 3 plan. The plan's main priorities—lifelong learning, a competitive economy, raising employability and addressing social exclusion and the gender balance—originate from the European social fund regulations and the national action plan for employment, but many of the measures in the plan are a direct response to the Executive's policies. I am pleased that our programme for government is recognised in the plan and that the measures proposed will complement our policies on such matters as social justice, \"Opportunity Scotland\" and the Scottish skills strategy.My second point relates to the horizontal themes of the plan: equal opportunities, the information society, sustainable development, lifelong learning and support for local initiatives. I would particularly like to commend chapter 9 of the plan, which sets out strategies for ensuring that the programme takes full account of those horizontal themes and that it does so in an innovative but systematic way. On pages 150 and 151, for example, the plan sets out measures to ensure that equal opportunities are fully integrated into programme delivery. It does so by breaking down the broad aim of equal opportunities into three specific objectives that are then translated into specific activities to ensure that the objectives and the overall aim are delivered. I welcome that approach.Thirdly, although the plan is a lengthy and detailed document, it remains strategic in nature. Our aim is to use the objective 3 money to build a prosperous Scotland in which those who are out of work can get into work and in which those who are in work can gain new skills to stay there. More generally, we aim to reduce our reliance on those funds for the future. Objective 3 money is, of course, only one element of the Executive's package for delivering money for training and development in Scotland, but it is an important one.The plan does not discuss in any depth how the programme will be implemented. There are brief sections on management and control arrangements and on monitoring and evaluation, but little is said about how the programme will be delivered. The plan does not say what the advisory group structure will look like, whether there will be scoring panels or whether we will continue with application forms or interactive disks. It does not address how we will ensure that the appraisal process rewards good projects rather than well-written applications, or how we intend to have more multi-annual projects. Those and many other administrative matters are being taken forward separately in consultation with the partnership. Although such matters might seem mundane, they are of great importance to potential applicants to the partnership and to me in ensuring that we select the best projects—projects which add real value to the programme in Scotland.Although this is a seven-year programme, the plan that we are considering today—which will go on to the Commission for consideration and approval—will not be set in stone. Experience of previous programmes has shown that we need to be prepared to adjust the priorities and measures of the programmes and to reallocate financial resources in the light of developing needs and circumstances. The mid-term evaluation of the programme provides us with a formal occasion on which to make those adjustments, but I reassure the committee that we will not hesitate to seek changes in advance of the mid-term evaluation if it emerges that the programme is in any way failing to meet Scotland's needs. Review, evaluation and flexibility are vital tools that will allow us to adapt to changing economic circumstances and to complete a successful programme.Convener, I am happy to listen to the committee's comments and to answer questions with the help of my colleagues, who were more involved in the creation of the plan. I will consider the plan in the light of those questions and comments, before arranging for it to be submitted to the Commission as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 233298,
      "EditedText": "Are you concerned that, if there is a delay in getting the plan approved, the shift from one programme to the next might cause redundancy problems for people currently associated with objective 3 projects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 233302,
      "EditedText": "I have a number of questions about the plan. In one part of the document, you concentrate on re-employment of people aged between 40 and 50. Did you consider widening the age bracket to 60 or 65, given that the number of older people is rising? For people over 50, it is very difficult to get a job, and I do not see much that is targeted at them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 233309,
      "EditedText": "Okay. I have one final question. Is it intended that the Executive review the plan half way through the seven-year implementation programme? Have any times been fixed for that, or will the review be on-going?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 233312,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I am sure that that would be possible. I hope to come forward with proposals at an early stage; although the committee will be aware that we have yet to set up the monitoring committees. We are at an early stage of putting together the structures that will oversee the implementation. However, reviews would certainly be built into those structures, and I hope that the role of this committee can be clarified early in the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 233314,
      "EditedText": "I am conscious of the fact that the committee has discussed this issue, and that it has come up on the past two occasions on which I have been here. I am happy to consider suggestions from the committee on what we should be looking at.There are two or three relevant things to say. Structural funds can play a role as part of our overall package in situations such as those that Allan referred to, but we must be careful not to increase the expectation of those funds because much larger support might be available from other sources, for example, Scottish Enterprise. While structural funds can play a role, it is likely that we could respond more quickly and produce more resources through other funding sources.This round of structural funding may be particularly helpful in averting redundancies by using the funds that are being made available for reskilling or improving skills in the work force to keep companies viable. Across different departments—and not just in relation to European structural funds—we need to identify those areas of the Scottish economy where funding can help to support long-term viability, and then move in with a package, which might include supporting a reskilling exercise. The programme will be important to ensure that fewer people are out of work and more people maintain the work that they are in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 233319,
      "EditedText": "Some of those issues are not unrelated to the points that Ben Wallace made about sustainable development and a more strategic approach.I indicated that I would bring Bruce Crawford in. Is your point on the same issue, Margo?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 233321,
      "EditedText": "The different financial allocations are shown in the plan. Tables break the funding down to different degrees of detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 233322,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for being thick. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 233325,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we can guarantee that funding that we now provide for capacity building in groups would eventually become core funding that we could guarantee in the future. The whole idea of capacity building funding is to try to ensure that the groups become sustainable, either with or without public funds, in the long term. I strongly support the adoption of a long-term planning approach to that, as you have indicated.On the subject of SMEs, I reiterate the point that the European structural funds can provide added value to support for SMEs and can complement what we are doing to create more small businesses and to grow medium enterprises in Scotland. However, they cannot direct that. They cannot be central to that, given the amount of money that is available here. In that context, your suggestion falls within the eligibility rules. It would be possible for that kind of project to be considered, and some of the descriptions in the plan include that sort of idea. You have raised an issue that I hope will be taken on board by decision makers in years to come."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 233326,
      "EditedText": "I thank the minister for that encouraging response. In terms of added value, I entirely accept that reply as far as objective 3 structural funds are concerned. I am not aware of any programme that gives the local enterprise companies, or any other regional development bodies, support to cover temporary leave for their employees. If the plan's structure is innovative enough to give added value in doing that, that is useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 233327,
      "EditedText": "There was no suggestion that voluntary sector groups should not get European funding unless there was a commitment to funding at the end of the process. However, it was implicit in the minister's comments that the Executive wants to encourage more strategic use of the funds. That touches on Ben Wallace's point about sustainability. We should not see that money as funding substitution; investment through the programme must lead to longer-term sustainable development. If that allows innovation in the voluntary sector, so much the better. This committee should ensure that those groups do not see funding just as a short-term expedient, but as part of a long-term development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 233329,
      "EditedText": "Someone is being buzzed on their pager."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 233331,
      "EditedText": "I am advised that discussions have taken place on those issues. The approach will be in line with the approach that we have tried to encourage throughout the Executive, throughout local government and in the voluntary sector too. Given the added value role of those funds in relation to the Executive's overall priorities, I certainly hope that that kind of approach will be central to our work. At the moment, I will leave the details of implementation to those who are responsible for that in the months ahead. However, I want to give them a firm steer that that approach is the right way to go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C233336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 233336,
      "EditedText": "Like Allan Wilson, I am concerned about large-scale redundancies such as those at Continental, BARMAC and so on. How can objective 3 funding be used to help those work forces, not only through reskilling, which Allan mentioned, but by setting up a mobile hit squad that could help workers who are threatened with redundancy by providing a one-stop shop for counselling, benefits and the range of advice services that are required at that stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C233338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 233338,
      "EditedText": "That is what I asked. I want to know to what extent the minister thinks that objective 3 funding can be used, not exclusively to resource such measures but to underpin them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C233344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 233344,
      "EditedText": "I want to echo Bruce Crawford's points about capacity building in the voluntary sector and in small and medium enterprises. I have talked before about the benefits of people being trained for work opportunities in those sectors to have some form of temporary employment in organisations, which would enable people who are already in those organisations to undertake training. I am sure that this programme will allow that to happen.Section 14.3 of the draft report says that the objective 3 operational programme will\"be co-ordinated with any European Social Fund financed activities\"and specifically mentions objective 2 programmes. Will the Scottish Executive give a higher priority to areas that receive objective 2 funding or that just missed out on such funding because of particular geographical considerations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 233345,
      "EditedText": "The plan team has recommended that there should be a 55 per cent allocation to areas with objective 2 status, a 30 per cent allocation to areas in transition and a 15 per cent allocation to areas that fall into neither category. I will obviously take on board the committee's views before I make any final decisions. However, even if those are the final percentages, I will want to be clear that the 30 per cent allocation for transitional areas is targeted on projects that benefit the geographical areas in most need.After three months of this, we are all well aware that there are a number of communities across Scotland that missed out—Girvan being one, he said trying to put a smile on Cathy Jamieson's face—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 233347,
      "EditedText": "Stirling is another—as Sylvia Jackson is here too. Barrhead, East Renfewshire, some parts of Edinburgh and East Lothian are others. Different parts of Scotland missed out, largely because of their geographical position rather than their level of deprivation. It is important to target those areas and to ensure that money is not too thinly spread across too vast an area. With objective 3, I would take the same approach to prioritising funding in transition areas as I did with objective 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 233349,
      "EditedText": "It sounds fair—but without the figures, it is very difficult to judge. I am not being puir-moothed about this, but I want to put a word in for the wealthier people. Representing Edinburgh and the Lothians, I am aware that social needs are not as bad here as they are in some other parts of Scotland. On the other hand, unless the economy remains dynamic, and unless there is a continual renewal of skills and training, we will not be able to help. So we need to know how much money is involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 233352,
      "EditedText": "Of those measures, are you suggesting that 55 per cent be allocated to objective 2 areas, 30 per cent to areas in transition, and 15 per cent to other areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 233353,
      "EditedText": "That is the suggestion of the plan team, which I obviously have to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 233354,
      "EditedText": "That raises another question. If 55 per cent is going to areas that already have objective 2 status, but objective 3 can provide only up to a maximum of 45 per cent of the total cost of a project, can we add objective 2 and objective 3 together in any one project?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 233356,
      "EditedText": "No, we cannot? So the maximum is 45 per cent from any fund?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 233358,
      "EditedText": "Also, objective 2 and objective 3 cover different kinds of project. Funding could be going to the same area, the same street, the same building, but to different kinds of project."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 233368,
      "EditedText": "Child care and transport costs are both seen as important elements of the support packages that are necessary, although we may need to discuss further how they are met in practice. I am happy to keep an eye on those discussions, if the committee would like me to monitor them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 233376,
      "EditedText": "My final question is more general. The plan talks about tax breaks, or the use of tax, and making finance available. I am aware that that is not a devolved power, and is therefore not for this Parliament. However, 48 per cent of employment in Scotland is provided by small businesses, so the matter is weightier in this country than in England and Wales. Is there a system in place whereby, through the Department of Trade and Industry, yourself and the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning, representations can be made in discussions with the chancellor to ensure that those Scottish needs are given a greater weighting, or at least borne in mind at Westminster? Without many of the tax breaks in Scotland, some of the plans would be weakened if certain things were to change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 233377,
      "EditedText": "I said in the local government debate last week that the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning, and probably the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and the Local Government Committee, will consider, over the next year, the support that is given to small businesses in Scotland. I imagine that, in examining that topic, they will cover the issues that Ben Wallace raised and I would not want to say anything today that would cut across that. We recognise the importance of small businesses, not only to the Scottish economy, but to small communities—urban and rural—throughout Scotland. It is therefore important that the plans complement whatever other policies the Government pursues, whether in the UK or in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 233385,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure how much the committee, or the minister, gets from this process, but I suppose that it is inevitable that we should end up discussing the big stuff. That is not meant to be disparaging, but I am not sure whether there is added value in this for the committee or the minister. We may have to look into how we can do things better.I would find it useful if I could be given some examples of where the different types of programmes and expenditure are applied and what the outcomes are, so that I could get a better feel for how this works. Perhaps that is part of the monitoring process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 233386,
      "EditedText": "Before the minister answers, I should say that the second-last paragraph of the letter that I sent him, which members should have, echoes the comments that we made about other plans—that we want there to be rigorous monitoring of expenditure on operational matters. We have already suggested that the minister's staff and our staff liaise about getting a timetable for that. At the very least, there should be an annual report back to the committee on the points that members have raised. We want to be assured that money is being spent effectively and that it is meeting the objectives. If not, it should be targeted elsewhere. That is an important new role for the committee. We will not just be holding the Executive to account, but discussing the work of the monitoring committees and management executives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 233387,
      "EditedText": "As part of the review of the monitoring committee structure and the programme management executives for all the funds, we must examine how the different relationships will work over the next few years. Bruce Crawford makes a good point. If we were to start this process again, we might not find that having a minister come along to present a plan that had been prepared by a plan team, rather than to announce the team's outline decisions for discussion and be held accountable for those decisions, was the right formula. However, we are where we are and I have found our discussions useful.If I understood Bruce Crawford correctly, he suggested that it would be useful to have specific examples of projects, or allocations to training schemes, that fall within the different categories listed in the document under priorities. There is a fair bit of detail in the plan on what each priority means, but I think that the member would like examples of what the money might go towards or has gone towards in the past. That might be useful information, and if we can provide it, we certainly will."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 233394,
      "EditedText": "I share your concerns over the French Government's decision. There is also an issue for the Rural Affairs Committee to consider. By the time we could consider the matter, we would be some way down the line. I would not want to engage in a knee-jerk reaction, by saying that a statement must be made to the Parliament tomorrow, as I am not sure what the Executive is considering. I am not sure whether Jack McConnell would have been able to answer that. I undertake to write to the Executive, to indicate that we have concerns and to ask that, at the first opportunity, the Executive report back to us. I am not sure that it would be appropriate for us to demand that that issue be debated tomorrow. In any case, the item is not on the agenda. I shall write to the Executive at the end of this meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 233397,
      "EditedText": "This may appear a tangential issue, but it goes to the heart of the way in which we see ourselves in relation to European institutions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 233398,
      "EditedText": "I have already said what I will do, and I want to move on. I will deal with the matter by writing to the Executive on behalf of the committee. We will not have a general discussion on the subject at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 233403,
      "EditedText": "I have one further suggestion. It has been pencilled in that the Local Government Committee will have an extra meeting. Can we ask Stephen Imrie to check whether that will clash with other meetings? Today's meeting has clashed with another meeting for Maureen Macmillan and me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 6014,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6014,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 233292,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 233304,
      "EditedText": "The global grant—which I notice is, in effect, a 1 per cent top slice—goes straight into the voluntary sector. Are you targeting specific areas of the voluntary sector? Considering that that income stream may be cut off in 2006, do you think it is appropriate that you are stringing the voluntary sector along rather than preparing it for the next stage when funding might be drastically reduced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6015,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 233305,
      "EditedText": "How does the Official Report show a long pause? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 233306,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry—I am taking advice. Obviously a number of detailed discussions have taken place in meetings that ministers have not been involved in, and if I am to try to explain the thinking behind some of these issues it will be better for me to reflect and to be accurate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 233308,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry—I understand the answer that is being whispered to me, and I hear your question, but I am not tying the two together. May I answer your question in writing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C233315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 233315,
      "EditedText": "So structural funding could be used as part of the reskilling process for workers who are made redundant through large-scale industrial closures. You are saying a definitive yes to the use of objective 3 funding as part of an overall package."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6015,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 233318,
      "EditedText": "I said that I would be happy to consider any proposals that the committee has."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 233323,
      "EditedText": "Under the heading of competitiveness and entrepreneurship, for example, the figure for different programmes is £70 million. That sounds like a substantial amount of money, but it is over seven years. In the context of other departmental expenditure and programmes that the Executive supports, whether that be through Scottish Enterprise and local enterprise companies or colleges and other organisations, that is a small amount of money. It is important that, while we try to target that money as effectively as possible, we do not move away from the real responsibility, which lies with our mainstream Scottish Executive funding, to deal with these large-scale problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 233324,
      "EditedText": "I thank the minister for his opening statement. I shall refer to the issue that Ben Wallace raised of global funds, and then move on to an issue of training for small to medium enterprises.We discussed how important global funds might be to voluntary groups. It might be useful for them to be outlined to a sub-committee, if there is such a thing, of the European Committee, or at a pre-meeting briefing. Ben Wallace is quite right. The urban renewal funds—which you will remember with some pleasure, I am sure, from your time as the leader of Stirling Council—had a cycle of three years, at the end of which often either the project went to the wall or the local authority had to mainstream it into its budget profile.That might have been okay when there was a bit of slack in local authority budgets; however, we all appreciate how difficult it would be to achieve that now. Ben Wallace was trying to get assurances that, whichever organisation's money the global funding is being used to pump-prime in the voluntary sector, at the end of the life of the funding, that organisation will not be left high and dry, unable to continue, and that a proper business plan will be developed to ensure that the organisation will have a life beyond the funding package.I turn to the issue of positive action for work force training and learning. There is an interesting statement in the Executive documentation, in a paragraph that quotes the \"Skills for Scotland\" report. The statement reads:\"It is important that Scotland's workforce is equipped with the skills and the flexibility necessary for the economy to flourish in the twenty first century.\"The statement refers to the training that is required to raise the level of skills in the Scottish work force. All members would agree with that statement, but the question is how we can translate that into reality for small to medium enterprises. We should look to the Italian experience, how quickly SMEs have been growing there and the rate at which they continue to flourish. The Italian economy is not so exposed to large-scale downturns in the world economy, as it is not so reliant on inward investment as the economy of this country. I am not trying to knock inward investment; I am trying to establish a process by which we can help SMEs more effectively.Would it be possible, under the programme, to consider direct support for small to medium enterprises to bring on temporary recruits, for instance, to allow them the capacity to release employees for proper training and to increase the skills of the work force? If not, I suspect that a lot of SMEs will say, \"What has all this to do with me?\" or, \"I cannot really afford it all\", even though they are getting support in that their employees' skills are being enhanced while they are not needed at the coal face."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 233333,
      "EditedText": "I am certainly in tune with those views. As we have in different circumstances, I hope that we will enhance the work of the existing SIPs in those areas, rather than duplicating or contradicting what the SIPs do. There needs to be a complementary role—enhancing and adding value—as much at local level as there is at national level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C233334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 233334,
      "EditedText": "How are you going to deal with groups who are excluded throughout the population, not just in urban or rural areas, who do not have a territorial base?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 233337,
      "EditedText": "I know from previous experience how such measures operate. The issues are not to do with the injection of European funding, but, as the minister has said, with the concentration of funding from Scottish Enterprise, local enterprise companies and local authorities. That part of the debate is not within the remit of the discussion on this plan. Objective 3 funding can only help to underpin such measures and enhance them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 233340,
      "EditedText": "Before I bring in other committee members, I want to pick up on the funding for groups. Nearly £47 million has been identified under the area headed \"addressing exclusion of thematic groups\", which suggests that that element is important. What percentage of the funding for the total project will be made up of objective 3 funding?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 233350,
      "EditedText": "Will the minister clarify: is he talking about 55 per cent of the £321 million for objective 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 233357,
      "EditedText": "Some of the areas that qualify for objective 2 would be SIP priority areas, and therefore eligible for what could be described loosely as urban programme funding. That funding is often used to match the European funding. In my area, it has been helpful to bring the two together, as that allows us to go ahead with projects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 233360,
      "EditedText": "Part of the effort to integrate the use of the various funds is to ensure that the use of objective 2 and objective 3 is complementary in any area. However, we have to be clear: the purposes for which objective 2 is used are different from those for which objective 3 is used. Any objective 3 allocation to projects in areas on the objective 2 map would be because they are viable, necessary and desirable in those areas, and complement the other things that are going on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 233362,
      "EditedText": "If I remember correctly, when we looked at the 116 most disadvantaged wards in Scotland, we found that 16 had not previously been accounted for in objective 2. Some of them have now been accounted for, but others have not. Those very disadvantaged wards should be taken into account for the 55 per cent from objective 2. As you know, the reason they have not been included is purely geographical."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 233365,
      "EditedText": "We have to give guidance on how the two programmes complement each other, so we have to give an indication of where we think the allocation might fall. We will build in a programme of reviews so that we can adjust things along the way, if it is appropriate to do so. Also, it is important to recognise that giving guidance to the decision-making bodies in the new round about the level of priority to be given to certain areas is not the same as insisting that all the money be spent in those areas. The objective should be to support the projects that best meet the aims and objectives of the overall programme. Many such projects might be some distance from the wards Sylvia Jackson identified, but will nevertheless benefit the people who live in them by making available training or development that can support them. At all times, we need to be clear about the objective of the programme, which is to raise skills and provide training in the areas that are outlined in the programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 233366,
      "EditedText": "This committee is on record as supporting the type of strategic approach that you mentioned earlier. Any expenditure must fit a strategic plan; initiatives must not just be ad hoc. I hope that in the next year or two, as we begin to monitor the effectiveness of this and other programmes, we will measure them against the stated priorities of this Parliament. Clearly, if they do not meet those priorities, we will have something to say about that.If members are unclear or unhappy about specific areas of the financial breakdown mentioned by the minister, they can raise them either through the clerk or with the minister directly. I am sure that such comments will be given due consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 233370,
      "EditedText": "The quality of an individual project should be more important than its size or its location—that is our starting point. Priority 2.3 refers to rural exclusion, but I want to try to monitor the allocation and availability of funding and the success of project applications from rural areas outside the Highlands and Islands, as well as some of the other priority areas, to ensure that funding is allocated fairly. When we get around to making appointments in the new year, I will wish to discuss these elements with those responsible for implementing the plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 233372,
      "EditedText": "Those points are well made. I said in my opening statement that the most important thing was for us to ensure that we back good-quality projects, rather than only those with well-written applications. We should set out to achieve that aim. There will be times when we will have to provide support for people, if we are to achieve that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 233375,
      "EditedText": "That was a straightforward answer. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 233379,
      "EditedText": "I cannot disagree with the strategic approach—that is right, and the committee agrees with it. The equity with which the special assistance to the Highlands and Islands is approached is also right.We have conceded that things become difficult once you get down to hard cash. However, when you were drawing up the plan, what methodology did you use to put in place the benchmarks that would satisfy the strategic objectives that had been set? I have one or two local issues in mind, although I do not want to punt them just now because that would sound as if I am interested only in my area, which is not true. However, I have been asked about certain matters and I do not know what sort of steer to give people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 233380,
      "EditedText": "It is important to remember that the plan was put together not by the Executive, but by a plan team."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C233382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 233382,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 233383,
      "EditedText": "Margo is nothing if not consistent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3 Operational Plan",
      "HeadingID": 6015,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6015,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 233390,
      "EditedText": "It is a useful contribution.As members have no other questions, I thank the minister once again for attending. Notwithstanding our concern over when we receive some of the documents during this process, we recognise the huge amount of work that has gone into it. I ask the minister, on behalf of the committee, to convey our thanks for that work not only to his own staff, but to those who have been involved in the plan team. We hope to have discussions with the minister and others whom he has mentioned over the coming year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 233393,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about timetabling. I would have liked to have had on the agenda for the next meeting a discussion on today's announcement by the French Prime Minister, Lionel Jospin, concerning the potential lifting of at least 70 per cent of the beef ban. I would have liked to have been able to discuss that in some detail, but it will be too far down the track by the time we have that opportunity.Given the importance of that statement about the exclusivity of grass-fed cattle in this country, which affects 70 per cent of the Scottish herd, I request that you, as our convener, write to the Executive, asking that a statement be made tomorrow in Parliament on that specific issue. It is in the European arena, and it is tremendously important that the European Committee has an understanding of the Executive's position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 233395,
      "EditedText": "I want to come in on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 233396,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to get into a discussion on that, as we have clear guidelines on putting items on the agenda. We have already addressed the issue, and I have said that I will write to the Executive, but I do not want to enter into a wider discussion on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 233400,
      "EditedText": "I have made clear the terms in which I shall write to the Executive; I shall express the committee's general concerns.At the next meeting, we will return to the issue of the venue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1338
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6016,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 6016,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 233402,
      "EditedText": "That depends. We have a slot for 11 January, but the first date on which the facilities in Glasgow will be available is the following Monday. However, I said to Stephen Imrie that it is not acceptable to take us out of our Tuesday routine. We may have to meet on Tuesday 18 January, when the facilities will be available. I suggest that we cancel our meeting on 11 January and aim for a meeting in the week beginning 17 January, which will probably mean that we will have meetings two weeks in a row after that.Do members have any requests for further briefings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0403678+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 191495,
      "EditedText": "There is a slight problem for the reporters groups. The disability reporters group asked for organisations to be brought to the committee to give evidence. The problem is finding time for that. Should we pick up other issues and bring more information to the committee? Or should the reporters groups go to meet organisations? That has to be clarified if we are to meet fortnightly. Because we want to hear evidence on a large number of issues, it could take some time to get to the evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 191509,
      "EditedText": "There has not been a reporters group meeting since the last committee meeting. However, in light of what you said earlier—that reporters groups may take evidence from organisations—I will organise a meeting of the group to take place after recess in early January, so that we can examine the progress that has been made on the issues that were raised at the previous reporters group and determine how to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 191529,
      "EditedText": "The quotation is selective about the official position of the Catholic Church. Monsignor Connelly has gone on record on several occasions to ask that the matter be addressed. The quotation does not necessarily reflect the full views of the Catholic Church."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.2483462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 191555,
      "EditedText": "What would be the quickest way of highlighting it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.2483462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 191569,
      "EditedText": "When I discussed this quotation with Catholic Church spokespersons—at least one of whom Michael McMahon also spoke to—their line was that now this is in the political domain, it is up to politicians to set the priorities. The Church believes that the act should go, but that it is up to the Government to decide whether it is a priority—that is a political decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.2483462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4588,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4588,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Kate MacLean): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 191397,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry about the late start. I had some difficulty getting here because of the weather. Three members of the committee have not arrived yet. They are probably having the same problem. Rowena Arshad from the Centre for Education for Racial Equality in Scotland has not arrived yet either, but she is on her way and should arrive shortly. She has said that she does not mind Dharmendra Kanani from the Commission for Racial Equality making a start before she arrives.Welcome again, Dharmendra. Dharmendra is here to give evidence on the Scottish Executive's consultation document \"Improving our Schools\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 191400,
      "EditedText": "Not so much in Scotland. It is unfortunate that my colleague from CERES is not here to speak about some of her experiences. I know from my experience down south that there have been opportunities, for example, in Camden with the sure start initiative, where black and ethnic minority parents have been involved from an early stage, in particular when looking at pre-school provision.A lot of work has been invested in outreach by local education authorities. Research, particularly from Birmingham, has demonstrated the impact of early intervention on the achievements of particular communities. For example, over a number of years, children from the Bangladeshi community were tested against white pupils and those who had not had pre-school education. The difference in achievement over a five-year period was shown to be immense. There is consensus that it is important to have early intervention, because it has a marked impact on educational performance and achievement, but in Scotland, we have not determined sufficiently the needs of black and ethnic minority community groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 191401,
      "EditedText": "I guess that most people support the principles that you outlined, although I should only speak for myself. I accept what you said about training, inspection, monitoring, recording and so on. At that general level, a lot—or some—of what we are discussing may be incorporated into the bill.We keep coming back to the details of how things will work in schools. I was interested in what you said in paragraph 3.3 of your submission. You accept that recording racist incidents is important, but you say that:\"The concentration on recording of statistics and incidents does not address a very real issue which is that young people need to be empowered to raise their complaints and know they will be effectively dealt with in the first place.\"You then talk about qualitative methods being required alongside quantitative methods. That raises the important issue that assessment can be difficult. Could you help us by telling us what kinds of indicators you want to have, because that is one of the difficult areas with which we have been trying to grapple?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 191402,
      "EditedText": "A more imaginative approach to assessment and standard setting is required. For example, if the sole indicator of success were to be simply recording racial incidents, we would not get the full picture. One could conduct pupil research—ad hoc, dip sampling of pupils' experiences—to identify whether pupils feel more confident. One could examine how anti-racism is raised in the curriculum. One could measure parental involvement, by asking whether black and ethnic minority parents feel confident that the school is addressing their concerns or whether they are sufficiently engaged with the school's procedures—one could examine the number of inquiries about schooling issues and the outcomes to those inquiries. One could measure involvement in parents' evenings and so on. A plethora of indicators could be established, from what happens in the classroom through to school mechanisms for parental involvement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 191406,
      "EditedText": "The content is patchy and inconsistent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 191408,
      "EditedText": "I do not think so—there is no coherence. Ultimately, it is not clear from the draft bill how the curriculum content will be measured or monitored, apart from figures for achievement. While we appreciate that the system has operated for some time in Scotland, there is scope for a clearer approach to standardising work around equality issues within the curriculum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C191409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 191409,
      "EditedText": "To follow on from Malcolm Chisholm's first point, you have made a number of valid recommendations in your submission. Has the CRE or CERES proposed amendments to the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 191415,
      "EditedText": "The issue of bullying is very worrying. You talked about the fear of racial harassment and about schools that have limited places—what practical solution is there to that problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 191420,
      "EditedText": "A significant case involving the local education authority in Cleveland dealt with the concept of parental choice. In that case, a white parent chose to remove her child from a predominantly black school because she was concerned that the child was losing its ethnic identity. On that occasion, the Education Act 1980 took precedence over the Race Relations Act 1976, although we felt that the actions and choices that were taken were discriminatory. We are concerned that primary weighting should be given to the Race Relations Act 1976, which would be consistent with the obligations placed on local authorities under the education sections of the act. The CRE's \"Code of Practice (Scotland) for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination in Education\", which we circulated to members in our initial, thick briefing pack, contains more detail on that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 191423,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for being late. Please forgive me if I ask about something that has been addressed already.I was interested in what you had to say about pre-school education and youngsters with special educational needs. Are there specific issues about consultation with black and ethnic minority parents? In both those areas, parental involvement is crucial, but you say that our education system is flawed in the way in which it works with black and ethnic minority families. What solutions should we consider, particularly in relation to special educational needs and whether young people are placed outwith mainstream education inappropriately?You said that there was little evidence about what happens to young black people in schools. Do you have anecdotal evidence on truancy among young black people, which might arise from their school experiences or from the way in which, if the cause of a disciplinary problem is not correctly identified, the disciplinary system might deal with them inappropriately?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 191431,
      "EditedText": "I was slightly puzzled by paragraph 7:\"Performance indicators relating to pupil expenditure should not affect the provision for special and specific needs.\"Why?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 191433,
      "EditedText": "We have not yet discussed any of the evidence from organisations. At the conveners group, I raised the issue of where the Equal Opportunities Committee fits into the progress of the bill. The committee will either give a draft stage 1 report to the Executive or we will add our proposals to those of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. That committee has not yet begun to consider the bill, so we have a bit of time. I hope that we will have Sam Galbraith back, so that we can ask him further questions in the light of the briefings that we have had. We might also invite other organisations back. Are there any other issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 191436,
      "EditedText": "We have taken a lot of evidence, so we will probably discuss the next stage when we consider our work programme. What strikes me is that we were not involved in the consultation period, partly because it ended in October. The first piece of work that we did—of which I am sure you would approve—was on the Macpherson report, which meant that we were unable to get all the education work done in time for the consultation. It is emerging that the Parliament provides many opportunities to feed into the process. The revised bill will probably be published before we have the chance to question Sam Galbraith, but we can still feed into stage 1 of the bill. As we saw last week, with the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, there is a report at stage 1 and amendments at stage 2, so although we have missed the consultation period, we have not missed the boat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 191438,
      "EditedText": "Thank you.There are cross-cutting issues in our recommendations in response to the action plan. It would be useful to know how the Scottish Executive intends to meld what is stated in the plan with the opportunities that the bill provides. At some point, it would be useful to find out what you as a committee think about our proposals on the new duty including specific reference to schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998. After you have called Sam Galbraith to the committee, we would welcome the opportunity to come back to discuss some of the specifics, on the amendments and other measures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 191442,
      "EditedText": "We now move to our next item. All members have a copy of the work programme report that was sent out last week. Do members have any initial questions on that report? We have received many requests from members to hear briefings from various organisations, and it has been difficult to keep up with the legislative timetable. We thought that it would be a good idea to get a firm idea, at this meeting, of whom we are going to hear briefings from and in what order we will deal with issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 191444,
      "EditedText": "That would cause me no difficulty, but it is up to the committee to decide what it wants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 191445,
      "EditedText": "I want to make three points. First, it would make sense to do something with all the evidence that we have received on the education bill at our first meeting after the recess. The first meeting would be the best opportunity to do that. Although the bill will be published around that time, that would not be a problem, as we would still have opportunities.Secondly, given that we are meeting fortnightly—and I realise that that is what the majority of the committee wants—we need to do more in each meeting. For example, I propose that we discuss the education bill and the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill on 18 January. Now that the issue of same-sex partners has been dealt with, there will be no more major issues for us to address in the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. On 1 February, we should do as Tommy Sheridan suggests and invite representatives of the Scottish Executive equality unit and the Scottish Human Rights Centre. If we are to meet only once a fortnight, we must have meetings of three hours—or two and a half, if we start at 10 o'clock; otherwise, we will never get through the business.Thirdly, as we have discussed already, we will work on the transport bill during the first half of 2000. We will work on the housing bill at the same time, as we will have an opportunity to address that legislation early. I suggest that the Disabled Persons Housing Service be slotted in when we deal with housing, and that Achievement Bute and Caledonian MacBrayne be slotted in when we deal with transport, as those are two specific subjects. We could hear from the Zero Tolerance Trust, SAY Women and Scottish Rape Crisis earlier, as we will not have to wait for some other piece of legislation in relation to those issues. However, the issues of transport and housing could be dealt with in a block. At the previous meeting, I mentioned Positive Action Housing. The general view was that representatives of that organisation should give evidence when we address the issue of housing, which makes sense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6194412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 191448,
      "EditedText": "We think that the list in front of us details all the outstanding briefings that have been requested. If we have missed any, they can be added to the list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6194412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 191450,
      "EditedText": "To invite the Scottish Refugee Council?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6194412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 191456,
      "EditedText": "I return to the point that Shona Robison made earlier about the Scottish Refugee Council. I raised that issue at the previous meeting. It was recorded in the minutes of the sub-group report, as Shona Robison had brought the matter up. It was at that point that we made a formal request to include that organisation on the agenda. I agree with Malcolm Chisholm, however, that we should address the legislation that is currently under scrutiny and prioritise that work. The time that Shona Robison suggested for inviting the Scottish Refugee Council—sometime in March—would be appropriate, as that would allow us to concentrate on the improvement in Scottish education bill and the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6194412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 191463,
      "EditedText": "We are reacting, Shona, to the evidence that we took initially from the main equality organisations on their priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 191467,
      "EditedText": "I said earlier that that would come back to the committee and that we would then produce a draft report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C191468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 191468,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I was supporting what you had said. If we did things that way, it would be more structured and we could push on. I support what Johann said as a way to move forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 191472,
      "EditedText": "Although equality legislation is a reserved matter, we still have a lot of power to change things. I would have thought it far more important for the committee to suggest amendments in Scottish legislation that address the problems of discrimination in all groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 191474,
      "EditedText": "At a conference that Nora Radcliffe and I attended in Edinburgh, the lesbian and gay community made it clear that it is very happy about such issues as Jim Wallace's statement on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill and with some of the steps that the Parliament has taken on section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 191479,
      "EditedText": "We will come to some agreement on at least the first few meetings. Shona, you wanted to raise the issue of the frequency of meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 191483,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we agree to deal with the improvement in Scottish education bill and the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill on 18 January and that we defer the timetable until the clerks have found out about bills. It is a bit academic if we do not know when the transport bill is to be introduced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 191492,
      "EditedText": "We might have the information by then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Partnerships and Research Needs",
      "HeadingID": 4591,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ID": 4591,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 191505,
      "EditedText": "And that is an annual research budget. As far as I know, funding for social partnerships will not be available every year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Partnerships and Research Needs",
      "HeadingID": 4591,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ID": 4591,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 191506,
      "EditedText": "On social partnerships and using the money to improve consultation, as we are talking about the education bill and how we can make things better in schools, can we use the money to do something a bit more imaginative, for example, visiting a school to talk to the front-line people? That could mean talking to teachers, head teachers and kids in rural and urban areas to get a feel for what it is like on the front line, rather than always taking evidence from organisations. We could get behind the organisations, to real people. Is that a sensible way of trying to be more consultative?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 191510,
      "EditedText": "We can be tentatively pleased with the statement made yesterday by Jack McConnell—I have read only reports of it—about public bodies. He mentioned targets for participation by women and by black and ethnic minority communities. He also referred to figures relating to children's panels which distorted the number of women who are members of public bodies. His statement is encouraging, and we want to ensure that we are locked into that consultation.On behalf of the group, I have lodged questions on appointments to public bodies, not just on the steps that have been taken to improve the spread of representation, but on where jobs are advertised and on the criteria according to which appointments are made. To some extent, those points have been overtaken by the announcement of the consultation exercise.We are still waiting for a response to the report about the experience of women as witnesses, \"Towards a Just Conclusion: Vulnerable and intimidated witnesses in Scottish civil and criminal cases\". I lodged an oral question on that report, but it was not taken. I will try again this week and lodge it as a written question if that is unsuccessful.We also discussed legislation on the rights of victims of sexual crimes. In particular, we discussed the perpetrator being able to conduct his own defence. Recently, there was a highly publicised case in which the woman who was involved—Jacqueline Radin—experienced huge distress, but bravely gave up her anonymity to highlight how dreadful the experience had been. Our group agreed to write to Henry McLeish—who made the initial commitment to do something about this—to ask him to endeavour to progress the matter. We also wrote to Jim Wallace to ask what the Executive's plans were. I intend to lodge a motion calling for legislation to deal with the matter, having consulted the sub-group and other organisations. Similar legislation will come into effect in England and Wales in April. We are asking for legislation that will at least come into line with that south of the border. I hope that members will support the motion once it is lodged. I will report back on any replies to the letters that we have written.Finally, Professor McLean said that she would be happy to meet us. We will seek an informal meeting in the short term, but I expect that she will give useful evidence to the whole committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 191512,
      "EditedText": "I have a small question in relation to Professor McLean. We confirmed that she would make a presentation to the whole committee. Are you talking about an additional, informal meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 191513,
      "EditedText": "Professor McLean was relaxed about meeting the sub-group to give us an idea of what was in the report. The sub-group thought that it was important that her information went on public record. I hope that she will attend a full committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 191522,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any comments or questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 191524,
      "EditedText": "The quotation was not selective if that means that I ignored other comments. Individuals from other sections of the Church made various comments about the Act of Settlement. I quoted the official Church spokesperson, whom I had asked to give the Catholic Church's position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 191534,
      "EditedText": "Since those quotations appeared in the press, Michael McMahon has spoken to the official Church spokesperson, so they are superseded by what was said to him then. If we want to decide the matter formally, we can do so, but I do not think that we should spend much time discussing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 191538,
      "EditedText": "Any fair-minded person would agree that the act is discriminatory. The number of MSPs who have signed Mike Russell's motion shows the feeling in this Parliament. Michael McMahon's statement is a good position for this committee. If the committee agrees it, it will show that we feel that the act is discriminatory and should be considered at some point by members of the United Kingdom Parliament who can take action on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 191540,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a problem with that. My personal opinion, which I expressed at the sub-group meeting, was that I do not think that we should be debating the matter as it is a waste of three hours of the Parliament's time. That is a personal view; there will be a debate, so we can include that reference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 191541,
      "EditedText": "Shona is recommending a factual amendment. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 191546,
      "EditedText": "Once the changes are agreed, it is up to the committee to decide what to do with the statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 191547,
      "EditedText": "We would normally pass it on to the Executive. That could still happen. It would have to go today. It could be amended and passed on to the Executive as the position of the Equal Opportunities Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 191550,
      "EditedText": "Could we circulate it to MSPs for their information ahead of the debate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 191552,
      "EditedText": "It does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 191556,
      "EditedText": "If the committee agrees that that is its position, anybody can tell anybody about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 191558,
      "EditedText": "I do not see why not. It would just be telling people what the committee had decided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 191561,
      "EditedText": "I thought that we could say, \"The committee acknowledges that this issue is not a priority for the Catholic Church in Scotland\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 191565,
      "EditedText": "No. It recognises the Church's opposition to the act, but we would have to add that it does not view change as a priority. We could say, \"The committee recognises that, although the Church is opposed to the act, it does not view it as a priority\", or something along those lines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C191572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 191572,
      "EditedText": "If that is the view of the official spokesperson of the Catholic Church, we should leave it in rather than get into a debate about changing the wording of the paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 191581,
      "EditedText": "Let us not be formal about this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 191583,
      "EditedText": "Are you happy with that, Michael?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 191584,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem with that at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 191588,
      "EditedText": "It may be because you have been writing as individuals that you have not been getting the information as promptly as you would like. Perhaps a letter from the committee would receive a definitive response from the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C191589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 191589,
      "EditedText": "My question was a written parliamentary question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 191591,
      "EditedText": "We questioned Jackie Baillie about that, if I remember correctly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 191593,
      "EditedText": "The correspondence that I have received from the CRE asked that the matter be pursued further, and that is what we should aim to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 191594,
      "EditedText": "Let me have a copy of your letter, Johann, and I shall write on behalf of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 191598,
      "EditedText": "One of the issues that came up at the meeting was that in the past, people felt that sexual orientation issues were not addressed at all in terms of equal opportunities, or that they came far down the list. Are there any questions for Nora?On the point that Nora made about organisations getting together to oppose the repeal of section 28, according to the newspapers on Sunday, the Churches have formed an alliance to that end. Members of the committee should be prepared to come in and defend the repeal of that measure and the proposed changes to legislation, because I suspect that in the next few months we will receive mailbags of the same size as we received on the fox hunting ban."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 191600,
      "EditedText": "Have we responded to Children in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 191607,
      "EditedText": "I notice that we have been invited to meet the Educational Institute of Scotland's equal opportunities committee when Parliament is meeting. Is it proposing to come here?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 191610,
      "EditedText": "Shall I write to it on behalf of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 191611,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 191446,
      "EditedText": "First, I agree with Malcolm Chisholm. We need more direction, particularly in trying to pull the evidence together. The way in which we have received evidence has been bitty, and it has been hard to keep track of what we have heard and the conclusions that, as individuals, we have come to. We must discuss whether the committee can come to collective decisions, and we should do that early in the new year, before we lose the thread of things. I suggest we have a pulling-together meeting as early as possible in the new year.Secondly, I understood that we were going to discuss the frequency of meetings today. I do not know whether members have come to conclusions on that, but it would be worth while to discuss whether we should have meetings fortnightly or weekly.Thirdly, it would be useful to have some indication of which requests for briefings are still outstanding. Several requests have been made, one of which I would like to see on the committee's agenda before the end of March, from the Scottish Refugee Council. Changes are scheduled for April 2000, and it would be useful for the committee to hear about the impact of those before they are made. I request that that briefing be slotted into the agenda before the end of March."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Partnerships and Research Needs",
      "HeadingID": 4591,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ID": 4591,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 191503,
      "EditedText": "So doing one does not exclude us from doing the other?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 191511,
      "EditedText": "I lodged a question three months ago about the number of women on public bodies. A month ago, Jack McConnell told me that an answer to my question was imminent. I still have not had an answer, which seems strange. When I get an answer to my question and when Johann Lamont gets answers to hers, it might be useful for us to consider the information. Although there has been an announcement, we must consider some of the detail. We need to consider the mechanisms that will be put in place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 191576,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we end the quotation at \"moment\". In that way, the issue that we have been discussing—which may not be an issue at all—will not be highlighted. I do not think that any one political party intends to manipulate the situation. Ending at \"moment\" leaves the essence of what the convener said about the Church recognising other legislative priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani (Commission for Racial Equality): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 191398,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much for giving the CRE this opportunity to come and speak to you again on the improvement in Scottish education bill. I know that you are not too keen on presentations on overhead projectors—neither am I—but I hope that by using overheads I can skim through some of the key principles. You have already received a briefing from the CRE and CERES. I hope that you have had the chance to read it. We are keen to discuss ways in which the bill can be improved in terms of equality and race equality, to ensure that some improvements can be embedded in it.With this bill, we have an important opportunity to achieve institutional equality—that is one of the key sentiments for the Commission for Racial Equality and for the Centre for Education for Racial Equality in Scotland. If we have learned anything from the Stephen Lawrence inquiry and the recommendations that emerged from it in the Macpherson report, it is that embedding principles of equality, and race equality in particular, in legislation of this kind is absolutely essential. We are concerned that, in the draft of the bill, there is no sense of how we in Scotland will achieve equality of opportunity, let alone race equality. We should focus our minds on what is actually being proposed, on what opportunities exist and on how we might effect long-term change.The overhead shows a set of principles that we will have to consider if a world-class education system is to emerge as a result of this bill. People should be able to enjoy participation of all kinds: educational participation, lifelong learning participation, social participation and cultural participation. When we consider the education system as a whole, other areas such as political participation and economic participation will have to be considered. Those are basic principles that we believe should underpin a revised bill.In the review of section 1 of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980, we welcome the proposal that ministers should have a new duty. That presents the opportunity of making ministers more accountable and of sharing the responsibility for the provision of education in Scotland. If, by including ministers in that responsibility, the aim of the proposal in the bill is to achieve greater accountability, that duty on ministers should be clear, transparent and measurable. If that is the aim, we need some honest and open dialogue and negotiation with civil servants, this committee and others on how we can achieve it.At the CRE, one of our key concerns is that the ministerial duty should include specific references to schedule 5 of the Scotland Act 1998. Why is the opportunity to include a reference to schedule 5 missed? If the intention is to achieve a modern world-class education system—an intention that is written throughout the bill—it seems regressive, to a certain extent, that the opportunity has been missed to include a reference to the equal opportunities responsibilities that the Executive and Parliament have. We hope that, in your scrutiny of the bill, you will ensure that that opportunity is not missed when the bill finally becomes legislation. The tenor of the bill is continuous improvement, and the setting of objectives and national priorities, which will feed from the level of the Scottish Executive to local authorities and schools. We are concerned that across Scotland we do not have any reliable information on the education experiences of black and ethnic minority pupils. We have pockets of information, for example, from Edinburgh and Glasgow, but there is a complete absence of consistent information that identifies the education needs of black and ethnic minority pupils and others. If ministerial priorities and local objectives for improvement are to be set, how will they be achieved without that kind of information?We recommend strongly the introduction of standard ethnic monitoring procedures across education management, provision and outcomes. We are conscious that there is a tendency among public service organisations in particular to feel that ethnic monitoring is problematic, difficult and resource intensive, and that people do not understand it, because the notion of self-categorisation is open to confusion.Equality agencies such as the CRE, CERES and the Equal Opportunities Commission should have the opportunity to advise Government on how ethnic monitoring can be promoted across particular sectors of the public service domain. In that respect, I hope that ethnic monitoring becomes standardised in schools and local authorities, so that we have an overall picture of what is happening in education. That would enable us to plan effectively for the education needs, current and projected, not only of black and ethnic minority pupils, but of Scottish pupils across the board.I have made this point already, but it is important to reiterate that one of the key concerns of CERES and the CRE is the absence of a sizeable black and ethnic minority population in the teaching profession in Scotland. There must be measures to ensure that representation is balanced, and that it is increased. If there are opportunities to use positive action measures, we should use them. We can provide you with guidance on that.My next point may be contentious, but it is important. We are in the context of setting national priorities. We said that there is an absence of evidence on some of the issues, yet locally we are aware of what is going on. Our recent casework suggests that there is still a great distance to be covered between commitments, policy manuals and practice. There are still situations in which local authorities and schools are not managing racial harassment effectively, and are not meeting the specific needs of black and ethnic minority pupils, particularly with regard to language needs.We are not aware of what is happening in terms of educational achievement, so one of the key issues is that if we are to achieve a modern schooling system in Scotland, and abide by some of the principles of what this new Government and democracy is about, we must ensure that an equality, or race equality, priority is set at ministerial level. How we achieve that will be a matter for the coming eight months or so.We are concerned about consultation. You will be aware that the bill suggests that there is no need to regulate how consultation takes place at a local level. Our experience suggests that the practice of consultation is patchy. Some authorities are quite robust and engage with black and ethnic minority communities and other stakeholders effectively but, across the board, the quality of consultation depends on the size of the community or the political commitment of local authorities or head teachers, for example. We have the opportunity to establish coherent consultation guidelines and a framework for engaging with black and ethnic minority communities.I am minded of the fact that down south, Government has sought to institute regulations on how local government should consult. In our briefing, we cited the example of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and the fact that local crime and disorder strategies have to be subject to rigorous consultation. We recommend that we take a similar approach in Scotland. If we cannot do that, we will want to know why.The theme that runs throughout this presentation is that if we are to achieve some of the aims of the Scottish Executive, we must be explicit about race equality issues and school planning. One of our main concerns over devolved school management is the opportunity that schools and local authorities have to absent good practice or negate their responsibilities with regard to the bilingual education needs of pupils, and investment in equal opportunities, anti-racism and multicultural work in schools.While we support the proposals in the bill, safeguards must be built in to ensure that schools do not opt out of their race equality and equal opportunities responsibilities, because that could happen in Scotland, where such responsibilities are not a priority and are not in the foreground of many people's thinking, particularly at a local level. We are concerned that the best-value principle of continuous improvement be embedded in performance indicators of pupil expenditure and so on.Our casework experience suggests that schools increasingly are cutting their provision for the language needs of bilingual pupils who have English as a second language. We need to achieve a position in which we can effectively assess the situation. Our example comes from Glasgow, but I am sure that the practice extends elsewhere. If we do not safeguard against some of those issues, bad practice will emerge and persist.Scottish police forces have agreed that next year there will be a thematic inspection of race and community policing. We recommend that there should be the opportunity to have thematic inspection of race equality. We are concerned that we have a draft code of practice on inspections, yet there is a tendency for departments not to speak to each other. Her Majesty's inspectorate of constabulary is working closely with us on framing protocols for thematic inspections for the future, which weave in some of the issues centrally; yet in the draft code of practice for school inspections there is a complete absence of any reference to equality measures.If we are to achieve a robust system of inspection, why are those issues not mentioned in the draft code of practice? Why is there no target setting in terms of how Her Majesty's inspectors of schools will quality assure some of the race equality issues? We feel strongly that the code of practice should be amended to include specific reference to race equality.School boards should be asked how they intend to engage with, and seek the views of, black and ethnic minority parents. There is a lot of evidence from CERES—patchy though it is—from central region and Wester Hailes that, increasingly, parents do not feel part of the process, are not being engaged with and do not understand the process. We are all aware that parental involvement is key to achievements in lifelong learning. That is borne out in evidence from down south.A key concern has emerged from the casework regarding placing requests that was done for local race equality councils over the past five or six years. On occasion, black and ethnic minority parents have sought to place their children in schools that our outwith their catchment area, and where places are limited. In such circumstances, the fear of racial harassment has not been given equal weighting with other considerations. We recommend that it should be, given the specific issues that face black and ethnic minority parents.I shall end there, and we can have a discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 191403,
      "EditedText": "That was a helpful response.On addressing anti-racism through the curriculum, do you think that the current mechanisms—guidelines and so on—are adequate? You have had much experience in England, where there is a national curriculum. While I am not advocating that approach, is it your perception that it might be more difficult for such issues to be addressed by the curriculum in Scotland, or are you satisfied that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 191410,
      "EditedText": "We will be doing so as the bill journeys through its passage. One of our key priorities will be to ensure that the new duty on ministers will include specific reference to equal opportunities and to schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998. We hope that progress will follow on from that, but before the bill obtains royal assent, we will do our best to ensure that all opportunities to discuss amendments are taken, including close work with the committee. Once the committee has concluded its consultation process, we would like to know what members' priorities are—the minimum level of the equality duty that you expect the bill to deliver and the changes that you expect to propose, to increase that level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 191412,
      "EditedText": "We need to conduct a snapshot study of why there is only the current number of black and ethnic minority teachers in the teaching profession."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 191417,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned whether the bill concentrates enough on improving other aspects of education, such as the health and fitness of our school-age youngsters and making them aware of the importance of health and fitness, particularly given that recent reports show an alarming rise in obesity.You talked earlier of the need to measure black and ethnic minority pupils' educational attainment and the standards that are not being achieved within our schools. Do you plan to try to establish whether there is a greater problem in the black and ethnic minority community in relation to rates of health and fitness, particularly given some of the cultural barriers that might prevent pupils from taking part in physical education in current school curricula? If you have such plans, could you outline them and, if not, will you give some thought to that issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 191424,
      "EditedText": "I will deal first with your question about consultation with parents on pre-school education and special educational needs.As can be seen from the Birmingham research that I quoted and from the work that has been carried out in London, there is consensus down south that while pre-school education is good for everyone, it is an absolute must for groups such as Bangladeshi pupils, given the differential patterns of achievement for such groups. In Scotland, there is a lack of information, but we can draw on the experience down south. The CRE undertook a formal investigation of the education department of the then Strathclyde Regional Council and its provision for bilingual learners with special educational needs. We found that there was a tendency to confuse language issues with special educational needs. There are huge issues there, in terms of understanding what a child's needs are. Bilingual learners have specific needs. We found that parental involvement, from the beginning of the process to its conclusion, was minimal. Parents were not effectively consulted or involved and their language needs were not taken on board.The investigation, which we concluded some years ago, resulted in guidance and recommendations for local authorities and schools across Scotland; that is contained in the pack that we circulated in the initial briefing. There are clear recommendations for what schools should be doing. In the development of the bill, we should all be mindful of that experience and ensure that there are safeguards so that what we witnessed in one authority is not replicated elsewhere. On special educational needs, we have to be clear that despite guidance being in place, practice can be far removed from what it suggests should take place. That formal investigation gave us the opportunity to research that more effectively; it is time to consider it again.The commission does not have even anecdotal information on truancy. Some of our racial equality councils have raised issues, but no consistent pattern or trend has emerged. Research was undertaken in Glasgow—which led to the bid from the Glasgow Anti-Racist Alliance for social inclusion partnership funding—that identified high levels of disaffection among young black Glaswegians, with the implications for future aspirations and full participation. We do not yet have sufficient information to comment on levels and patterns in the school system itself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 191427,
      "EditedText": "How would the differences in the demographics of ethnic minority communities affect the delivery of improvements in the way in which equal opportunities in education are dealt with from local authority to local authority? I would imagine that in Glasgow, where a higher proportion of the population is from ethnic minorities, the impact would be different from that in, say, one of the local authorities in my area, North Lanarkshire, where the proportion is much less. What are the disparities and what is the impact?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 191430,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps financial? Through discussion with the committee, Scottish Executive officials and so on, we should work out a formula for a meaningful sanction for schools that resist development in the area of equal opportunities and racial equality. People always move quickly in response to something tangible such as financial sanctions. That might be one means of imposing sanctions, but I am sure that there are others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 191435,
      "EditedText": "It is a bit early to reach any conclusions on that, because the committee has not discussed it or taken evidence from parents who do not want special needs education to be mainstreamed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 191437,
      "EditedText": "Although we did not submit an official report on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, I raised the issue of same-sex relationships at the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, of which I am a member. I do not know whether the minister said that same-sex couples would have equal status, but adults with incapacity would be counted as spouses and cohabitees, and so on. We will discuss our work plan later, and how we will prioritise issues to ensure that we have the maximum opportunity to contribute to everything that is happening in the Parliament. You are welcome to stay for that discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 191440,
      "EditedText": "I have Jackie Baillie's forum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 191443,
      "EditedText": "Could we invite representatives of the Scottish Human Rights Centre to the meeting on 1 February? I have two reasons for making that request. First, the request to hear from that organisation was made a long time ago. Secondly, it would be appropriate to hear from the Scottish Executive equality unit and the Scottish Human Rights Centre during the same meeting.It is to be hoped that the equality unit is fully aware of the implications of all the human rights legislation and the related matters that come before the Parliament. I would like to have a full briefing, as early as possible, on the way in which this committee should scrutinise the human rights legislation that comes before the Parliament. It would be inappropriate to leave that briefing until 28 March, and it would be much better to have it when we hear from the equality unit. The question is whether that would be practical. I imagine that it would be, as we propose to hold several meetings at which there will be more than one briefing. I ask that that briefing be brought forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 191469,
      "EditedText": "Although I agree with Johann and Marilyn, there should be a clear statement of when certain things need to be done. The improvement in Scottish education bill and the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill need to be addressed in January. We do not yet know when we have to discuss the transport bill—perhaps the clerks could find that out—but I imagine that, as it is a first-year bill, we will have to discuss it before housing, which will not come until the second quarter of the year. Until we know when we are discussing transport, we cannot finalise our programme.If the clerks can find out when those things are happening—the Executive itself might not know yet, or might not be telling us—we can build the rest of our programme around that information. However, Shona has a point. It could be argued that, as the situation involving the Scottish Refugee Council has just arisen, that issue is time-limited, whereas other matters, though important, are not time-limited in the same way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 191484,
      "EditedText": "Some groups that have requested to be heard by the committee are still outstanding. It would be fairer to them if we could at least—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 191485,
      "EditedText": "Which groups have to be heard in January, February and March?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 191486,
      "EditedText": "Some have been waiting for quite a while."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 191488,
      "EditedText": "Fair enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 191489,
      "EditedText": "We must hear from the equality unit, which was established after this committee, on what its role is, and work out our remit in relation to that role. Everybody is agreed that we must also hear about the implications of the European convention on human rights coming into force next year. By 1 February, I hope that we will be in a better position to understand the timetabling for legislation on education, housing, transport and so on. We can then set our meetings to fit in with that timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 191490,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that. Is there anything else that members want to slot in on 1 February? The meeting on 18 January will be entirely taken up by our consideration of bills, which will probably take up some time on 1 February as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 191491,
      "EditedText": "Will we leave room for a future business item on 18 January? Presumably we will have the information by then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 191496,
      "EditedText": "We will have a timetable by the first week in January. The reporters groups are unlikely to meet more than once before then. I have no problem with the reporters groups meeting anyone they want to and reporting to the committee when there is time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Partnerships and Research Needs",
      "HeadingID": 4591,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ID": 4591,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 191498,
      "EditedText": "Turning to the report on social partnerships and research needs, money is available for committees for social partnerships. The Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee is calling business people to give evidence. If this committee presented an application to the conveners group before the end of the year with a suggestion for some kind of event, it is possible that we could get funding for it. Members may want to think about that matter and return to it, or they may wish to make suggestions now. Are there any questions or comments on social partnerships?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Partnerships and Research Needs",
      "HeadingID": 4591,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ID": 4591,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 191500,
      "EditedText": "Research could be on a specific subject, but the social partnership funding could pay for an event organised by the Equal Opportunities Committee to widen awareness of equality issues among MSPs. The money is finite, so if the committee wants to do that or to commission a piece of research, it must decide—not today, but before the money is spent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Partnerships and Research Needs",
      "HeadingID": 4591,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ID": 4591,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 191504,
      "EditedText": "One does not exclude the other. There is a research budget as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 191516,
      "EditedText": "The Justice and Home Affairs Committee has said that it will be April before it can consider anything that has not already been timetabled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 191514,
      "EditedText": "I have written that down as a suggestion for 14 March, along with the Zero Tolerance Trust, Rape Crisis and SAY Women."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 191515,
      "EditedText": "Our group suggested that either I or the group should meet Professor McLean, not as an alternative to meeting the whole committee, but to allow us to follow up other matters.The issue is so substantial that the whole committee should address it. We discussed the conclusion of that process, which would be a report on the evidence that we had heard. That would be passed on to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which would then examine potential legislation on that area. Perhaps we could come back to the issue and examine mechanisms for harnessing information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 191519,
      "EditedText": "At the previous committee meeting, I said that I would bring along a draft statement on the Act of Settlement. However, the document before the committee is only the bare bones of a statement. Having taken evidence from a number of individuals and organisations on that issue, I felt that there was no way that I could give a definitive position on it and that the committee should receive a draft that could be discussed.I explained to the reporters group that the draft statement would be in three parts. The first would be a clear statement by the committee of its position on the act; the second would detail the positions of organisations affected by the act; and the third would be a bland statement of what the committee could do about the act.At the time, the reporters group agreed with Tommy Sheridan's suggestion that there should be a paragraph about having a discussion on whether the issue should be debated in Parliament. However, that suggestion is now obsolete."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 191526,
      "EditedText": "As Michael Matheson knows, the Catholic Church is not a democracy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 191528,
      "EditedText": "I spoke to the two official spokespersons. I spoke to the clergyman who is quoted, who asked that that statement be recognised as the official position of the Church. That was why he made that statement to the press. I asked him whether I could quote it as the official position of the Church, and he agreed.After the meeting at which Michael Matheson raised his objections, I spoke to the lay representative of the Church, the parliamentary officer, who again said that anything that had been said by the cardinal did not detract in any way from the official position as outlined by Monsignor Connelly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 191530,
      "EditedText": "Michael McMahon has told us to whom he has spoken and has explained that they said that this was the official position. Either we take it out or we leave it in. Unless you are saying that Michael McMahon is telling lies, I do not think that the committee can add bits and pieces, particularly things that you have read in the press—the press does not necessarily always accurately reflect the opinions of bodies or individuals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 191532,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with that. However, we made it clear at the outset that if we talk about discrimination in any area—disability, race and so on—there are recognised organisations from which we can take evidence and which can make definitive statements. As we are talking about the Act of Settlement, which discriminates against the Roman Catholic Church, I would think that the people from whom one would get official comment would be the spokespeople of that organisation. That is why I included that statement. Michael Matheson objected and said that other people said different things. I do not dispute that, but I have spoken to two official Church spokespeople and gone back to them to confirm their position. They did so, and said that anything that had been said by the cardinal or anyone else did not detract from or add to that. That is the position of the Church. We either take on board what it says or we do not. I find the suggestion that I am selectively quoting offensive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 191536,
      "EditedText": "Why can we not change the wording to state that the committee acknowledges that this is not a priority for the Catholic Church in Scotland and leave out the quotation? That effectively says the same thing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 191537,
      "EditedText": "Across the parties, members' concerns about the act are not about how any institution feels or any individual's aspirations to marry into the monarchy, but about what the writing into the act of active hostility to a particular religious group says about our society—that must be our perspective. There is cross-party consensus that that is unacceptable. What we do about it is a different matter, but the issue is the message that it gives, as we head into the 21st century, to have it written into the law that certain groups are actively excluded from particular things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 191542,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 191543,
      "EditedText": "I was going to ask about another point on the race sub-group, if we have dealt with that business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 191549,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 191551,
      "EditedText": "If it becomes an official committee report, it becomes public knowledge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 191557,
      "EditedText": "So it can be circulated to every MSP?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 191559,
      "EditedText": "Can we get this statement amended so that it can be circulated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C191564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 191564,
      "EditedText": "Does the sentence on the next page deal with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C191570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 191570,
      "EditedText": "If the quotation is from the Catholic Church, we should leave it in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 191578,
      "EditedText": "If that is the committee's view, it should be agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 191580,
      "EditedText": "I move that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 191582,
      "EditedText": "Monsignor Connelly may have something to say about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 191585,
      "EditedText": "Then that is agreed. Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 191586,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure where else on the agenda I can raise this point. I want to mention the issue of a religion question on the census form, which I have discussed informally with the convener and have mentioned before. I have yet to find out what the timetable is. I contributed to the consultation on census questions and argued that religion should be covered. Black and ethnic minority groups as well as religious groups are pursuing the question. It is felt that services cannot be properly targeted unless that kind of information is available. The consultation period has closed and I do not know where things stand. Michael McMahon's group could pursue that further. I wrote to Jim Wallace again last week to ask exactly what the position is and when a decision will be made. In earlier correspondence, I had been assured that the matter would come to the Parliament at some stage. I would welcome any information about when it will be discussed and whether we will be able to influence the debate at that stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 191590,
      "EditedText": "I shall take a copy of that and a copy of Johann's letter and write to the minister on behalf of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 191599,
      "EditedText": "The last item on the agenda is correspondence. Are there any points that members wish to raise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 191601,
      "EditedText": "No. That correspondence came in since our last meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 191606,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 191608,
      "EditedText": "Not as far as I know. Everyone has received a letter from it. We could write to ask whether it is possible to meet it on a different date, or whether it would be able to come to Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 191609,
      "EditedText": "That committee meets in Edinburgh, but I do not know whether it would come to Parliament. If so, some members could be given permission to meet it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 191612,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other points on correspondence? If anyone wants a copy of correspondence that has not been sent to everyone they should contact Martin Verity or Rodger Evans.That concludes today's business. As this is the last committee meeting of the year I thank everyone for their work—committee members, Martin and Rodger, the official report and the person who operates the microphones and allows everyone to listen to us. I hope that you all have a good Christmas and new year. I will see you at the committee next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 191613,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:15."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 191523,
      "EditedText": "I objected to the report's selective quotation of the Catholic Church's views on political manipulation. As Michael McMahon has accepted, it was shown at the meeting that the Catholic Church had a variety of views on the matter. Does he accept that it would be appropriate to put that on the record?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:19.4410674+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 191419,
      "EditedText": "At paragraph 2 of your written submission and in your presentation, you refer to your concerns about the potential for the bill to be in conflict with, or to override, the Race Relations Act 1976. Could you expand on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 191452,
      "EditedText": "Some of the points that I was going to make have been made by Malcolm Chisholm. I am particularly concerned that, if we are to produce a stage 1 or stage 2 report, we should have time scales that we must work to. We must know when that work must be completed, so that we will have an idea of when it must be submitted to either the lead committee or the ministers. I am confused about when that is meant to happen.In pulling together the evidence that we have received, we must move quite quickly. The issue of monitoring statistics, and having a schedule for that, was raised today. The Commission for Racial Equality has offered to assist us with that, and the question is whether we should accept that assistance. If we produce a report, we may make reference to that, but if we do not submit what we want to have included in the report, we may lose out. We need time to return to organisations, to ask whether they can consider issues and get back to us with ideas of what they want to be included in our report. I would welcome an opportunity, early in the new year, to sit down and consider the evidence that we have received, so that we can prioritise the areas in which we may require further assistance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 191473,
      "EditedText": "There is no doubt about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 191477,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that should happen either, but the fact should be recognised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 191497,
      "EditedText": "We should keep the issue in mind when we deal with timetabling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Partnerships and Research Needs",
      "HeadingID": 4591,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ID": 4591,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 191501,
      "EditedText": "Is it the same money that is available for social partnerships and research?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 191539,
      "EditedText": "May I ask for an obvious amendment to be made? When Michael McMahon drew up the statement, it might not have been obvious that there would be an opportunity to debate the issue in the Scottish Parliament. I suggest that in the last paragraph, where it is stated:\"The Equal Opportunities Committee considers the above an important matter, affecting Scotland's people\",we should add, \"which will be considered by the Scottish Parliament on Thursday 16 December and\", before the concluding phrase: \"which should be considered by Members of the United Kingdom Parliament.\"It is a fact that the debate will happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 14 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4588,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4588,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 191396,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:10"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 191399,
      "EditedText": "You spoke about early intervention, for which new money has been made available to local authorities. Are there examples of good practice, where proper monitoring has been done or the needs of black and ethnic minority children have been taken into consideration, for example, with classroom assistants?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 191404,
      "EditedText": "No, we are not satisfied. Scotland does not have a particularly robust approach to anti-racist work within the school system, although I have come across a lot of good practice in areas such as Edinburgh, the Lothians and Glasgow. The situation is not much better down south where, most recently, a regressive position has been taken in the new opportunities available in the national curriculum, in that much of the anti-racist work will be placed in citizenship education, without much sophisticated methodology. We need guidance across Scotland on how to introduce, in a variety of ways, concepts of equality, race equality and anti-racism into the classroom."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 191405,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, there are two issues: the content of the curriculum and the mechanism with which to enforce it. You say that you are not happy with the content, either in England or in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 191407,
      "EditedText": "Are you satisfied that we have the mechanisms to ensure that, once we have developed good content, the curriculum is delivered in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 191411,
      "EditedText": "What practical action is needed to recruit more black and ethnic teachers in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 191413,
      "EditedText": "Is it very low?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 191414,
      "EditedText": "Yes—it is extremely low. We should also engage in positive action measures to make the profession attractive, and we should identify whether there are unjustifiable stumbling blocks. Colleges and institutions should consider how they recruit and try to understand the problem better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 191416,
      "EditedText": "Currently, schools and education departments have clear criteria for agreeing placing requests. When committees assess such requests, a parent's assertion, based on experience, that the child's fear of racial harassment is a feature of the request, should be considered equally with the other criteria. The fear of racial harassment should be written into the current criteria."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 191418,
      "EditedText": "There are no such plans. We are looking at the whole picture. As I said earlier, it is quite alarming that, both in Scotland and elsewhere to a certain extent, there is no reliable information about what is happening to black and ethnic minority pupils in our schools. Therefore, it is difficult to get to the stage where we can discuss what is happening at pre-school level or, in schools, the levels of attainment of black and ethnic minority pupils, let alone consider fitness or health issues. We know that there are certain patterns of ill health in black and ethnic minority communities, such as diabetes or thalassaemia in particular Asian communities. However, there is only patchy information about and awareness of the traits and patterns of ill health later in life. The connection with education is not clear and there are generational differences. Our starting point must be a more meaningful scrutiny of what is taking place in schools, so that we are able to meet specific needs and to plan for the future. The present system does not allow for that and we must achieve a position where it does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 191422,
      "EditedText": "The paper reflects our desire to compromise, because we understand how things happen and the minimum level of guidance that we might achieve. However, we would welcome regulation and a specific provision on consultation in the bill, which would make it clear that people have to consult and that there are ways in which consultation should take place. Guidance would follow on from that—that is our optimum position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 191425,
      "EditedText": "The Government is targeting money at alternatives to exclusion and trying to maintain young people in mainstream education. If it is not aware that there are race equality issues that are making young black people disaffected with school, some of that money might not be targeted to their needs. Targeting will be much more general. It is an area that would be worth exploring."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 191426,
      "EditedText": "I think so. In fact, one of the key themes for us is that the bill provides a significant opportunity to do a lot of good. Our concern is that, in relation to race equality issues, there will be a tendency to say, \"We do not know about that, so it is not a problem,\" or, \"Let us wait and see what the impact is.\" A modern approach, based on experience elsewhere, suggests that we should pre-empt the issues and ensure that we embed some key principles, not only in the framework of the bill but in the guidance, so that we achieve the minimum positions that we have articulated. It is important, for this committee in particular, to raise that consistently in the next eight to 10 months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 191428,
      "EditedText": "There are disparities which will have an impact on the quality of what is achieved locally. Whereas in areas such as Glasgow there will be sufficient pressure on the authority to do something effective, other areas will be perceived to be predominantly white, and it will be felt that they are not a priority. One of the key issues for us is that we have to move away from the argument about numbers and how we define equality issues as they emerge. A commitment to equal opportunities and race equality should not be dependent on the size of the ethnic community in a locality. In the Highlands, for example, would it be sufficient that, because of the size of the population, not even scant attention was paid to specific needs? Is it sufficient that pupils in the Highlands do not have the conceptual tools to deal with equal opportunities and an anti-racist position, or a clear sense of gender and disability issues? Some of those philosophical and practical questions need to be asked in the framework that is being established. There is a tendency in Scotland, in our approach to some of those issues, for development on equality issues to be proportionate to the size of the community. We need to move away from such an approach; at the end of the day it depends on the societal value system that we want to create in Scotland. On a practical level, we know that the approach will differ according to the size of the community. Individually and collectively, people in all parts of Scotland need radically to scrutinise their approach to what is being planned and what they think they are achieving in the delivery and management of education. We need standard approaches which, to a certain extent, cannot be open to negotiation. There have to be minimum levels throughout Scotland. That also relates to the advice that we are giving to police authorities and police forces. We need to standardise emerging practice across Scotland so that it does not rely on the size of the community."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 191429,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for being late.Following on from what you said, in paragraph 6 of your submission, on supporting best performance in schools, you say:\"Sanctions should be considered if schools remain resistant to change.\"What sort of sanctions do you have in mind?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dharmendra Kanani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 191432,
      "EditedText": "If a school wishes to stick to a spend formula, there might be a tendency to reduce pupil expenditure. Recently in one authority, we came across the provision of English as a second language being cut, simply because of money. Because it was seen as ad hoc, and as something that might not address the needs of the whole school population, it had not featured as a priority in the mainstream budget spend. We are concerned that if performance indicators are related to pupil expenditure as a whole, it is more likely that specific provision will be cut.May I ask the committee a couple of questions? First, much evidence has been provided to you over the past few months, and you have heard from many groups. I was quite heartened by the dialogue that emerged when civil servants made representations to you some time ago. Is any consensus emerging about what you might ask for in terms of the bill's development, and about your recommendations to the Executive?Secondly, do you have any intention of inviting Sam Galbraith to the committee, either before the revised bill is published or during its first stages? We recommend that you do, but you might have your own thoughts on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 191434,
      "EditedText": "I have had representations from several people on the issue of keeping disabled children in the mainstream of education, rather than having special schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 191439,
      "EditedText": "We would be happy with that, too. Does anyone else have anything to add? Thank you for coming and giving evidence to the committee. We will no doubt see you again—you are welcome to stay, but I can understand it if you have other things to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 191441,
      "EditedText": "That is much more important. Laughter. I was joking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 191447,
      "EditedText": "I asked the clerks to go through the minutes and record all the outstanding briefings. I was not aware that there were any others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6194412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 191453,
      "EditedText": "I have requested that the Equal Opportunities Committee be formally slotted into the consultation process. At the moment, it is not, and it is difficult for us to get a timetable. We are dependent on the good will of other committees to let us go and give evidence. We are not slotted in formally. I hope that a report about that will be brought back to the next conveners meeting, which would make things much easier for us, as we would be notified at the same time as lead committees or other committees that are notified. We must bash on with education. We are not the lead committee, but we will have to get all the stuff together. The only experience I have of producing such a report is from the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, in which there was a discussion on all the evidence that we had received. A draft report was then produced, which was discussed a couple of times before we eventually came up with the report that was to be published. That is the way in which this committee should proceed. Our report should be given directly either to Parliament or to the lead committee. As the situation is still not clear, we must proceed on that basis, on education, so that we can feed in at stage 1 rather than wait any longer. I hope that that will be done early in the new year. You are right that the process has been patchy, and that it is difficult to see how we fit into it. We missed stage 1 of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, although Malcolm Chisholm is right—the main point that we wanted to make was fed in anyway. That was through good luck. We must get our position sorted out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6194412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 191454,
      "EditedText": "I am delighted that Achievement Bute has been included in the list. That group will raise many issues aside from the ferry issue, one of which will concern keeping children in mainstream education. Would it be worth inviting any other groups to give evidence at the same time? As representatives of Caledonian MacBrayne will be there, people from other islands might want to send a deputation to question that company on the problems of disabled people on ferries. Should I investigate that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6194412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 191455,
      "EditedText": "No. When the committee has discussed that, if anyone is to be notified the clerks can do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6194412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 191457,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that was what Shona Robison was suggesting. Was that what you were suggesting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6194412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 191459,
      "EditedText": "As the committee can influence directly the legislation that is currently under scrutiny, we should prioritise that work. I am not saying that the asylum bill is not an issue for this committee. I am saying that we should prioritise the scrutiny of current draft legislation and ensure that we have an appropriate input into that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6194412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 191460,
      "EditedText": "I ask Johann Lamont to speak, as she has been waiting for a while. I will then allow other members to rejoin the debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 191461,
      "EditedText": "We can easily balance both the matters that we believe are important and the matters that we absolutely must address. If a clear timetable is laid out for us of the matters that we must address, and there are spaces, we might fit in other matters as soon as we can. Malcolm Chisholm is right in saying that we should have more idea of what we are going to address at each meeting. That would free up space to include, as early as possible, issues such as that which Shona Robison has mentioned.The committee must not only listen to evidence; it must be seen to use that evidence in some way. It would dangerously undermine the committee if it looked as though organisations were always coming to give us information, but there was no consequence of that. I was disappointed—and I say this to our SNP colleagues here—that the equalities debate focused on what this committee could not do and on its weaknesses. We all agree that this committee can do very positive things. We are charged with ensuring that what we can do will be as effective as possible and that any weaknesses, such as not having a timetable or not being clearly slotted into a structure, are addressed. We must ensure that we lock ourselves into the formal system so that the kinds of deadlines that we have missed in the past will not be missed again. If we are going to meet only once a fortnight, we must accept that our meetings will be very full, and we must make a commitment to a full morning's work.We will have to consider formally how the work of the sub-groups can be fed back to the committee. In the sub-group on women, we have discussed what we will do with the information that we have gathered on women as offenders and on women as vulnerable witnesses in the justice system. Committee members may want to wait until I can give a fuller report, but we should recognise that that work has to tie into the work of the committee at some stage. The committee should hear more than just a brief report.To give a good example, Professor Sheila McLean of Glasgow University has produced a report on the whole issue of women offenders, and I feel that the committee, and not just the sub-group, should have the chance to explore those issues with her. We will need to decide when to do that. The best time may be during the meeting on violence against women, which could then be linked to the question of justice. We must be aware that the meetings of sub-groups have a purpose, which is to pull information together in the medium term and to go to the appropriate places where work can be done. The work of the sub-groups should not be allowed to drift."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 191465,
      "EditedText": "I would have to look back at the minutes, but I do not think that those issues were raised as being among the major concerns of most of the organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C191466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 191466,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are saying the same thing. Johann talked about the legislative process and the fact that we have to fit into those time scales; but that is normal—every committee has to do the same. We have to examine the way that we manage our mornings, so that we can be proactive and fit in the things that we want to do. I think that Johann has answered Shona's question, or maybe I am missing something.In the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, we are taking evidence for a special inquiry. Something very helpful has been a résumé that the clerks produced of all the evidence. We took evidence, and then had two or three opportunities to examine it, take it away and make amendments. That then became the basis of our report. If our clerks could prepare something for the committee for when we come back, that would be helpful in focusing our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 191470,
      "EditedText": "If committee members are happy to have longer meetings, we can fit two or three evidence sessions into one meeting to cover specific committee issues as well as everything that relates to the legislative programme. That is not a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 191476,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that we should not do that, only that it should not dominate our programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 191478,
      "EditedText": "It is not particularly helpful to get into a debate about the limits of what the committee can do. That will only undermine our work. One of the big lessons of mainstreaming is that equality issues should not get discussed simply as a separate category headed \"Equality\".One problem in the past was that we talked about equality only when discussing equality legislation. If it is talked about within the context of a health bill or a housing bill, or in relation to transport or education, that will make a bigger difference. People who have argued for mainstreaming recognise that. That is not to say that equality legislation is not important. However, we should not be put in the position of focusing on what this committee cannot do when there is a massive amount that it can do. If people have given evidence to the committee, our task is to ensure that that evidence is fed into the system.The weakness so far is that we have not been located at the centre of the timetabled programme. Something should be done to rectify that, and the convener has taken it up. People come to this committee with important things to say. After we have listened to them, we must ensure that we do not simply react to legislation but feed the evidence that we have heard into legislation in a positive way.There is nothing wrong in having the spine of our timetable determined by the legislative programme. However, alongside that we should be working in areas in which we may be arguing the case for legislation to be brought forward at a later stage. That is part of our role. Although we do not initiate legislation, we can suggest it to bodies, such as the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which can. We can also influence the Executive to add legislation to its programme.This timetable is designed to ensure that we do what we can as efficiently as possible, that we do things when we have to and that the broader issues that Shona Robison was talking about slot in alongside that work. It is wrong to say that we must choose one or the other. We accept that issues can be bumped up the agenda. We are certainly not in the business of operating as gatekeepers in the equalities debate. We would not exclude people from coming here to give evidence if they thought that that was important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 191481,
      "EditedText": "My argument for retaining fortnightly meetings is that the sub-groups have an important role to play. We could use the space and time that fortnightly meetings provide us with to progress the work of the sub-groups. If there were evidence that we were falling behind, we would have to revisit that decision. However, I would be happy if we had a beefed-up fortnightly meeting and work was also being driven forward by the sub-groups. I am as conscious as Shona is that we do not want the timetable to slip so much that we are not able to get through our business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C191482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 191482,
      "EditedText": "I support what Johann has said. If we fall behind, we can revisit this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 191487,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should go ahead with the meeting on 1 February."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 191493,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that an item for future timetabling be placed towards the end of each meeting's agenda. The clerks do not know the timetables for the bills, but we will let the committee know as soon as we do. The education bill is likely to be introduced in January, but we do not know the particular date. We do not have dates for the transport bill or the housing bill either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 191494,
      "EditedText": "At least we know what we are doing in the first two meetings of the year.I will ask the clerk to write to organisations that are waiting to give briefings to the committee. I know that the City of Edinburgh Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender Community Safety Forum wants to come. I spoke to someone from that group on Saturday. We should write to them to say that they will be called to give evidence at an appropriate time.Are we agreed that our agenda for 1 February should include the equality unit, the Scottish Human Rights Centre and the education bill?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Partnerships and Research Needs",
      "HeadingID": 4591,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ID": 4591,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 191499,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we keep that item on the agenda of each meeting, because it may be that, in the course of our consideration of topics, we realise that we need more specialist research. I would hate to drop the issue completely and never come back to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Partnerships and Research Needs",
      "HeadingID": 4591,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ID": 4591,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 191502,
      "EditedText": "Not as far as I know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Partnerships and Research Needs",
      "HeadingID": 4591,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ID": 4591,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 191507,
      "EditedText": "Members can think about that, speak to Martin and me to get more details on what is available, and bring forward suggestions at a future meeting. It is important that we access some of the funds to help the work of the committee, because that would make us more inclusive.In terms of research needs, I am meeting staff of the Scottish Parliament information centre tomorrow to discuss what is available. Members can talk to me before then if they have suggestions. Any suggestions can be brought back to a future committee meeting. Are members happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 191508,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is progress reports from reporters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 191517,
      "EditedText": "We thought about suggesting to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee that it might want to timetable something in the second half of the year that draws on our report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 191518,
      "EditedText": "Does any member have any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 191520,
      "EditedText": "It has been overtaken by events."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6350633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 191521,
      "EditedText": "Exactly, which is why I did not include that paragraph. It is difficult for an individual to produce a report and to know exactly what the committee thinks. However, I have indicated which sections of the statement met with general agreement. Some members of the reporters group held their own views and I have no problem with them as individuals raising those points during further debates. My own opinions on the matter are not reflected in the statement either, which is basically a skeleton for the committee to discuss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 191531,
      "EditedText": "As a dialectical materialist, I am not that fussed about what the Catholic Church thinks about the Act of Settlement. I am concerned about the view of the Equal Opportunities Committee, what I hope this Parliament's view will be, and the view that will develop at Westminster. Therefore, whether that quotation is dropped is not a major concern to me, because it is what this committee says that matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 191535,
      "EditedText": "Why do we not drop the quotation and keep the text that follows it, which says that we note the official position of the Church? This is not about discrimination against the Catholic Church. It is discrimination against individual Catholics that I am more concerned about. That is why I do not think that having the quotation adds much to the statement. I understand why Michael McMahon put it in. I think he agrees that it does not matter if it is taken out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 191544,
      "EditedText": "Have we finished with that business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 191553,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that every member of the Scottish Parliament gets the Official Report of every committee. It might be useful to alert members to the fact that we have discussed the statement, and they can access the report through the web."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 191554,
      "EditedText": "If the committee agrees its position, members who read the Official Report will know that that is the position of the committee. If you want to make it a report as such, it must be a formal report to the Parliament, and it would take at least one day to make it an official committee report. It would have to be lodged with the Parliament first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 191560,
      "EditedText": "I would be grateful if you could clarify exactly how the paragraph on the first page should now read, because that was not clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 191563,
      "EditedText": "We know what the Church's position is, but if we did what you are suggesting the statement would not say what that position is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 191566,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that accurately reflects what the Church is saying. Are we agreed that the whole quotation should come out, or do we want to remove just the second sentence? I think that the second sentence would be acceptable if the word \"one\" were excised. People may be taking this too personally. No political party is specified. The quotation could be read to mean that the Church does not want to be manipulated by the Labour party, which has other legislative priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 191567,
      "EditedText": "That was the point that the Church wanted to emphasise. Once this became a political issue and started to be discussed in the Parliament, the Church started to back out. It did not want to have any influence on the political process in relation to the act, as it was concerned that one political party or other would try to exploit the situation for its own ends. The Church wanted the issue to be addressed in the political arena, but it did not want to be seen to be supporting one side or the other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 191568,
      "EditedText": "I think that people are grabbing for caps that they need not wear, if I can put it like that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 191571,
      "EditedText": "We could sit here for hours and not agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 191573,
      "EditedText": "I agreed with Tommy when he said that we are not talking about somebody marrying the Catholic Church, but about somebody marrying an individual. This is discrimination against individuals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C191574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 191574,
      "EditedText": "That is the issue that we are discussing. We have asked for the Catholic Church's position, and it has given it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 191575,
      "EditedText": "If this was a matter of racial discrimination and we asked the Commission for Racial Equality for a view on it, we would accept whatever view it gave. We would not have to go to individual black persons and ask them how they were affected. If members of a particular organisation are affected, the spokespeople for that organisation must be the source of any official comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 191577,
      "EditedText": "I second that. That is a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 191579,
      "EditedText": "I do not mind. I am in the hands of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C191587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 191587,
      "EditedText": "I, too, have been pursuing that issue on a related matter concerning the content of the census. Last week, Jim Wallace's correspondence indicated that a debate will take place shortly. That is not very precise, but the information about the content of the census will be made known shortly. That was the word that he used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 191592,
      "EditedText": "I shall write to Jim Wallace and copy the letter to Jackie Baillie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 191595,
      "EditedText": "Last week, our reporter's group met representatives from the Equality Network and Outright Scotland. We skimmed through the legislation that was of interest—the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, the improvement in Scottish education bill, the ethical standards bill, mental health legislation and the Millan report. The Equality Network and Outright Scotland are taking measures to ensure that people respond to the consultation on the ethical standards bill. They recognise that there will be vociferous opposition to the repeal of section 28, and they are encouraging people in their networks to make representations to balance that. They mentioned the fact that the Home Office is considering whether transsexuals, post-operative or not, should be able to change their birth certificates if they feel that they have been wrongly sexed at birth. There will be a report on that in the early summer, which will have implications in Scotland as well as in the rest of the United Kingdom. We talked about recognition of same-sex couples and the implications of that. In the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, same-sex couples are being recognised in a particular way, but there are wider implications for all sorts of other legislation. It will be a complicated issue that requires careful debate. Last Saturday, Kate MacLean and I attended a conference organised by the Equality Network and Outright Scotland on tackling institutionalised discrimination. There were a number of workshops. There will be a report on the conference, which will make interesting reading. One of the things that came out of the workshop that I was in was that people felt that anything they were trying to do to challenge discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation needed legislation to underpin it, in the same way that laws forbid discrimination on the grounds of disability, race and gender. Workshop participants felt that there should be explicit legislation for sexual orientation. The Scotland Act 1998 incorporates the European convention on human rights into Scots law, and the treaty of Amsterdam was the first European treaty to state that sexual orientation is not grounds for discrimination, so there is a legislative framework that applies in Scotland, although it is not well known.The Equality Network and Outright Scotland are organising a conference in the spring and sending round a mailing about it. They allowed me to include a letter with that mailing, which is going to approximately 450 individuals and organisations, in which I introduced myself as the reporter for the sub-group of the Equal Opportunities Committee and encouraged people to feed in issues and comments, either directly to the committee or via me. I did that to publicise as widely as possible the fact that we have an Equal Opportunities Committee, that we are interested in sexual orientation issues and that we want to be as open and inclusive as possible, but that it is up to people to send information to us if they want their views to be heard.The next meeting of the reporters group will be at the end of January on a Wednesday evening. I will write up a report of the last group meeting and circulate it to the committee; I have not had time to do that yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6506865+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 191596,
      "EditedText": "Thanks for that. Sending out a letter to those organisations is a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 191597,
      "EditedText": "The opportunity arose because they were doing a mailing about the conference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 191602,
      "EditedText": "Input from that organisation would be welcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 191603,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Does the committee want to hear evidence from Children in Scotland? If so, that would put back when we are able to consider a synopsis of the evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 191604,
      "EditedText": "It may be willing to provide a written submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4593,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 4593,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 191605,
      "EditedText": "We can write to ask if it wants to submit written evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6663089+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4589,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4589,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 191421,
      "EditedText": "In paragraph 4 of your written submission, which deals with the arrangements for consultation, you note that ministers do not intend to regulate local consultation processes. In paragraph 4.3, you say that guidance should be issued by the Scottish Executive on local consultation. Do you think that guidance would be sufficient, or should there be a reference to local consultation in the bill, by way of an amendment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 191471,
      "EditedText": "The committee cannot operate in a political vacuum of Scottish Parliament business. Most issues are reserved matters and we will have to react to events at Westminster. For example, Disability Scotland and the Scottish Trades Union Congress gave a presentation on the disability rights commission. Those organisations are concerned about the Scottish representation on that issue, and, although we have no control over that area, they wanted the committee to examine that specific issue. The majority of disability matters touch on issues that are very often reserved. Although we can try to prioritise issues that relate to the legislative programme, we cannot operate in a vacuum and kid ourselves that we can ignore decisions that will be taken at Westminster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 191475,
      "EditedText": "No one is disputing that. However, we have to recognise that decisions taken at Westminster will have a clear impact on the issue of equality in Scotland and that the committee has a responsibility to examine such matters. For example, the CRE in Scotland is concerned that the Race Relations Act 1976 has not been changed and has key recommendations on that issue. There is no time to deal with that at Westminster, but there is time here to do so. We have to investigate such issues when necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 191525,
      "EditedText": "Following that meeting, I had a discussion with the Catholic Church and was informed that the cardinal is the overall spokesperson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.2483462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 191527,
      "EditedText": "Nobody disputes that. However, it should be recorded that it is not necessarily true to say that that position is the official line of the Catholic Church."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.2483462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 191533,
      "EditedText": "If one reads the series of quotations by Monsignor Tom Connelly, one realises that the draft statement is selective. The quotations, which I took to the reporters group meeting, reflect different ways in which the Church might consider the matter. It is selective to put one point across."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.2483462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 191548,
      "EditedText": "To whom in the Executive would we pass it on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.2483462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 191562,
      "EditedText": "Could we not simply say, \"The committee acknowledges the position of the Catholic Church in Scotland\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.2483462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 191449,
      "EditedText": "The request was made two or three meetings ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 191451,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 191458,
      "EditedText": "No. I suggested that we should try to take evidence from the Scottish Refugee Council before the end of March, so that the committee would be aware of the impact of the legislation for which this Parliament is responsible. I suggested the opposite of what Michael McMahon understood: I would prefer to have that organisation's input sooner rather than later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 191462,
      "EditedText": "I would like to respond to Johann's initial point. Because equal opportunities is a reserved matter, I feel that it would be in the interest of this committee to push the parameters as far as possible. If, sometimes, that means highlighting the inadequacies of the current framework, perhaps we need to do that.In our work, we have to strike a balance between reacting to the legislative programme and being proactive on our own initiative. For example, the issue of statistical data collection is not going through Parliament, but we may wish to highlight it. Another issue might be that of refugees and the changes that will come in from April. This committee may take a view on that and may want to initiate something on that issue. I hope that we will not concentrate solely on reacting to the legislative programme. If we do so, we will miss a number of proactive opportunities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 191464,
      "EditedText": "A number of them raised the issue of refugees and asylum seekers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4590,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 4590,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 191480,
      "EditedText": "That is right. At issue is whether we switch to weekly meetings or, as Johann has suggested, beef up our fortnightly meetings and hear more evidence at them. At the speed that we are going, we will not get through everything with fortnightly meetings. That would be a pity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 14 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1037
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4592,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ID": 4592,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 191545,
      "EditedText": "Can we clarify what will happen with the statement now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C625238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18750,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18750,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 625238,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 625240,
      "EditedText": "First we will address the draft code of conduct for members. We have before us a number of revised sections, to which significant amendments have been proposed since our previous consideration of them or on which we need to do further work. The proposed amendments are highlighted in bold in the text, and the briefing note comments on the more significant proposals or changes.My aim is that we finalise the content of these sections today to allow the clerks to incorporate them into the complete draft code, which we can discuss and approve as a whole. Let us go through each section in order, page by page. Des McNulty is unable to attend the start of this meeting, but I know that he wanted to comment on the introduction and key principles. Do members agree to start with the section on lobbying and return to the introduction and key principles afterwards, by which time, I hope, Des McNulty will have arrived?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 625241,
      "EditedText": "We will start with the section on lobbying and access to MSPs. Are there any comments on page 1?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 625243,
      "EditedText": "That is precisely the point that I made at our previous meeting, when I asked that that word be removed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 625245,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure whether it is appropriate for me to make my comments while we are discussing this page, but when we are further on in the document I would like to refer back and make the point that this definition of professional lobbyist is too narrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 625247,
      "EditedText": "I also have some concerns, not necessarily with what the paragraph on professional lobbyists is trying to say, but with the way that it reads. I think that we need to look at it again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 625248,
      "EditedText": "We will have another meeting on 14 December to finish the other two sections of the code. The clerks will take it away over the break and present us with a final draft of the entire report in January, when we will have an opportunity to address these issues again.On page 3, I suggest that we add a paragraph. Following our discussions yesterday, the clerks came up with a wording that you may like to take note of. After the last paragraph, we are proposing to insert: \"It is not acceptable for a member to provide remunerated services as a member of Parliament, for example, as a parliamentary adviser or consultant.\" We decided yesterday that we would include that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 625250,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is. The committee thoroughly discussed the matter at yesterday's meeting. There was an almost unanimous view that our code should be tighter. On that point there is a distinction between the Parliaments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 625251,
      "EditedText": "In the third paragraph of section 6.3, what is meant by \"hospitality\"? I do not want to go back to a discussion about tea, coffee and biscuits, but if a member goes to a meeting with an organisation such as sportscotland, and members of a lobbying organisation are there, is the member not allowed to have tea or coffee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 625252,
      "EditedText": "The test that must be applied is the one that is underlined. The paragraph says \"that a member should not accept, in relation to any lobbying activity, any remuneration, gift, hospitality or other benefit from any person or organisation that might reasonably be thought to influence, or be intended to influence, his or her judgement in carrying out Parliamentary duties.\"The test is about the judgment of MSPs—if you think that you are going to receive something that might reasonably be thought to influence, or be intended to influence, your vote, you must not accept it. The next page—page 4—gives some guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 625253,
      "EditedText": "I am worried about the phrase \"be intended to influence\". How do I know what somebody intends? I may not think that something has an influence on me, but somebody may be intending to influence me. They could then make the accusation that they had intended to influence me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 625255,
      "EditedText": "There is a larger section on acceptance of hospitality, gifts and other benefits in section 8.2 of the document. We are jumping around a wee bit, but we may want to discuss that section in relation to what we are discussing now. I was going to suggest that we remove the paragraph at the bottom of page 2 and the first full paragraph on page 3 of that section and insert a different form of words. With your agreement, convener, I will read out the alternative form of words that I suggest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 625257,
      "EditedText": "That might help us to focus our minds on the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 625259,
      "EditedText": "I take that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 625262,
      "EditedText": "Shall we come back to that point, rather than hold up the meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 625264,
      "EditedText": "The second last paragraph does not make sense to me. It reads:\"No member should use his or her position to help any person or organisation to obtain any privileged access to which the person or organisation is not entitled.\"What is that trying to say?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 625266,
      "EditedText": "Should not it say that any access is unacceptable? The question is not privileged access, but any access to which a person is not entitled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 625267,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point. We will remove the word \"privileged\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 625269,
      "EditedText": "We could remove the word \"professional\" from that paragraph, so that it would read: \"A member should not offer or accord any preferential access or treatment to lobbyists, nor should lobbyists be given to understand that . . . \""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 625271,
      "EditedText": "So, shall we remove \"professional\" from the paragraph?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 625275,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Patricia's interpretation—we could remove \"professional\" from this paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C625276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 625276,
      "EditedText": "I have received a letter from the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations—I imagine that all members of the committee will have received that letter. The SCVO's member organisations are probably exclusively charitable organisations. It is perfectly legitimate for the SCVO to lobby on behalf of charities and it would be unfortunate if it was caught by a restrictive provision. Is it possible to insert \"excluding charitable organisations\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 625277,
      "EditedText": "That point is made earlier in the document—Adam Ingram highlighted it. It can be found on pages 1 and 2 of section 6, \"Lobbying and access to MSPs\". Under the current wording, the SCVO and others should have no concern about the direction in which the Parliament is heading. However, Adam Ingram has concerns that he wants the committee to address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C625281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 625281,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that, before long, the Parliament may reform charity law. Charities and bodies such as the SCVO may seek meetings with ministers about that—such meetings would not be out of place or out of the ordinary. Those bodies should not be caught by any of these provisions, as that might prevent them from seeking meetings with MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 625283,
      "EditedText": "We should remove \"professional\" from this paragraph and from the following one because no one, regardless of who they work for, should get preferential access to any MSP. The second paragraph is key, because sometimes we can be lobbied without being aware of it. Someone from a charity would identify themselves quickly on the telephone; they would say, for example, that they were phoning from Shelter to speak about homelessness legislation. The difficulty is caused by those people who say, \"I am phoning on behalf of such and such an organisation,\" when they are really employed by a professional lobbying company. The onus must be on the member to ensure that they know to whom they are speaking. The code gives clear guidance to those organisations, particularly charities, that seek to lobby MSPs. They will know that they should identify themselves when they phone an MSP; they will know that they should say, \"I am so and so. I work for Shelter. I am phoning you about such and such.\" As well as guiding MSPs, the document will guide those people who wish to lobby us legitimately on behalf of organisations by which they are employed or for which they work in a voluntary capacity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 625284,
      "EditedText": "That was well put, Karen. I welcome Des McNulty to the meeting. We are going through the code of conduct, Des. We decided to leave the introduction and key principles to the end of our discussion, as I know that you are particularly interested in those areas. At present, we are considering lobbying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 625291,
      "EditedText": "I would like a tighter form of words in the second paragraph on page 5. I suggest that we change it to, \"Members should not participate in any event where the impression given by the organisers is that paying to attend the event will result in preferential access to or treatment by MSPs\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 625293,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, convener, I think that we need something stronger. There may be a middle ground, but I am not sure what it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 625298,
      "EditedText": "I agree that the wording needs to be stronger and that we should say that members should not participate in such events. I would also take out the word \"preferential\" in the second line of the paragraph. That would make clear that members should not participate in this kind of activity at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 625302,
      "EditedText": "I suppose so. I am arguing against myself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 625303,
      "EditedText": "I agree absolutely with everything that Karen has said. My difficulty with the paragraph is that if a member were invited to speak at a dinner, for example, six months in advance and pencilled it into their forward planner or put it in their diary—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 625306,
      "EditedText": "The invitations to people who were interested in the event might not go until after the member had agreed to attend. We need to recognise that people try to get the key speakers first. Members might not be aware at the time—indeed, they might never become aware—of what the invitations to other people say. Where does that leave the MSP who, in good faith, has accepted an invitation to speak at a conference or a dinner? I am worried that members might not be aware that preferential access had been promised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 625309,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether the last sentence of the previous paragraph is superfluous, given the sentence that precedes it. That reads:\"No preferential treatment should be offered or accorded any person or organisation as a result of having made initial contact with a member at such an event.\"That is sufficient. We do not need the follow-up sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C625313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 625313,
      "EditedText": "I know that several of the political parties have held functions at which MSPs and senior politicians were present. The payment required of those wishing to attend those functions is greater than is normal for lunch or dinner, to put it mildly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C625316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 625316,
      "EditedText": "I think that it needs to be checked. MSPs might attend a party function in support of the First Minister or other senior politician. If that is covered by this provision, we would be catching activity that until now has been regarded as legitimate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 625322,
      "EditedText": "We are reasonably clear about what we want to achieve, in that we want to ensure that organisers of events do not publicise them on the basis that they will lead to privileged access to MSPs. We do not want to create a situation where it would be inappropriate for MSPs to attend an event such as the politician of the year awards, nor is it necessarily our intention, as Lord James pointed out, to prohibit party functions. If that is our intention, we should take advice on the most appropriate wording and should not try to define it in the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 625325,
      "EditedText": "Can I come back to a point that I made yesterday? I think that somewhere in the code we should say that there will be a register of staff interests in which members will be obliged to ensure that their staff register their interests. If we get the advice from Westminster that we requested yesterday, we could put in a line on that at the meeting on 14 January. It would be sensible to have a register of staff interests. I am flagging that up as something to which we might want to come back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 625326,
      "EditedText": "Okay. Is there anything else on page 5? It appears not.In section 7 we are considering the regulation of cross-party groups. I would like members to look through this section as a whole, as we spent some time on this very recently. All we are doing is incorporating these regulations into the code of conduct. I do not want to spend much time on this, unless anyone wants to reconsider any issue. I do not think that there is anything controversial here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 625330,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to section 8, on general conduct and conduct in the chamber. Are there any comments on page 1?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 625334,
      "EditedText": "We can include them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 625336,
      "EditedText": "We will do that.Are there any comments about the paragraph on allowances? As there are not, we will move to Tricia Marwick's proposal. Everybody has received a photocopy of the proposed changes to the whole of the paragraphs under the heading \"Acceptance of hospitality, gifts or other benefits\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 625343,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 625346,
      "EditedText": "That statement should be repeated on this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 625349,
      "EditedText": "We will check that and ensure that the wording is the same."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 625351,
      "EditedText": "The SPCB wording does not pick out the Parliament complex, but it emphasises the bit about office hours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 625353,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That sentence would then make a general point, rather than a specific one about drinking in parliamentary buildings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625354",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 625354,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone happy with that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 625355,
      "EditedText": "So people cannot go to the pub at lunch time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 625363,
      "EditedText": "Des, do you have with you the form of words used by the SPCB?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625366",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 625366,
      "EditedText": "The issue is not one for us to make a judgment on. Karen is right: there is a general principle that Parliament staff are discouraged from drinking alcohol during office hours. There is no reason why that should not apply to MSPs also. The issue is one of discouragement, rather than prohibition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 625371,
      "EditedText": "Can we come back to this issue once we have the form of words used by the SPCB?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 625375,
      "EditedText": "We need to see the form of words used by the SPCB, then we can have a discussion; we are trying to discuss the issue in a vacuum, which makes life difficult."
    },
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  },
  {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 625376,
      "EditedText": "We will return to this issue. Once we have covered the section on\"Acceptance of Hospitality, Gifts or other Benefits\"do members want to return to the section on lobbying?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 625378,
      "EditedText": "Karen raised points about gifts and hospitality. I said that when we discussed my proposed insertion, she might feel that it addressed her concerns with the earlier part of the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 625379,
      "EditedText": "Is that on page 3?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 625380,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 625381,
      "EditedText": "Karen, are you happy that the removal of\"or be intended to influence\"addresses your points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 625383,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 625384,
      "EditedText": "Is Tricia suggesting that we insert the general guidance in the section on lobbying?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 625389,
      "EditedText": "We can do that. We will return to the matter when we consider the entire code again.We will now turn to paragraph 8.3, dealing with conduct in the chamber or in committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 625398,
      "EditedText": "I agree. That text refers to a problem in the chamber, which it is not proper for us to discuss. We should remove it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 625399,
      "EditedText": "We do not have the power to change that rule."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 625402,
      "EditedText": "I would like you to consider it carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 625404,
      "EditedText": "There may be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 625409,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty with that is that it simply adds cachet to such documents when they appear in the press. There is a sense in which marking documents as confidential might make leaking them more attractive for those members who might be tempted to do that. The real issue is the appropriate discipline of members. Members should have no doubt about the status of documents that come into their hands—not every document needs to be marked confidential to remind members. I do not really agree with Tricia Marwick on that point. To mark documents in that way would shift the onus of responsibility from the member and would reward the activity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 625411,
      "EditedText": "I have not raised a particular issue and—unless such an issue was raised with me officially—it would be wrong of me to do so. Never mind what has happened in the past, this is a general issue and we must be clear in our approach. I fear that the issue will arise again in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 625414,
      "EditedText": "If that is what we want to say—I am not saying that it is—we need to do some work on that. I would ask the clerks to get some advice about the wording at Westminster, or the standard agreed procedure if it is not a written rule. I want us not to rely on protocols, but to have something written down, so that everyone knows exactly where they stand. Knowledge should not be based on how long members have been in Parliament, or on whom they know, but on what is given in black and white."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625419",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 625419,
      "EditedText": "There is another issue that we have not considered. We have talked about drafts and committee reports going out to members of the public. At Westminster, there are clear rules about keeping such information within the committee—it is not to be transmitted to members of one's own party who are not serving on the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625422",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 625422,
      "EditedText": "That is a very good point."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625424",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 625424,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that suggestion, Karen. We shall amend the wording accordingly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 625426,
      "EditedText": "We do not want to preclude committees from deciding to give documents to people. We decided to give a document to members who were named, and that should remain a possibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 625427,
      "EditedText": "The document states that reports\"should be kept confidential, unless the Committee decides otherwise.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 625431,
      "EditedText": "Members will appreciate why I said that we must consider this important issue. We have to get it absolutely right. The clerk has noted all the points that have been made, and the document will be amended accordingly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 625435,
      "EditedText": "This area of the code has to apply to staff as well as to members. Information may be filed by a member of staff, so they should also be covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 625436,
      "EditedText": "That is agreed.That was a useful discussion on that point. We move on to the rest of the document. Section 8.5 concerns use of services of the staff of the Parliament, and section 8.6 concerns failure to comply with or contravention of the rules on general conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 625437,
      "EditedText": "I have two points to raise that are not covered by the document. We have already mentioned conduct in the chamber and in committee. Do we also want to mention conduct in the building? We want to make it clear that people should not be abusing each other or acting in inappropriate ways—either members or their staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 625438,
      "EditedText": "Treatment of parliamentary staff is covered, but I understand the point that you are making. Should we incorporate a new paragraph to cover conduct in the parliamentary buildings as well as in committee and in the chamber?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 625439,
      "EditedText": "I cannot remember the exact wording, but I am sure that the key principles stress the importance of acting in a manner that is becoming of a member of the Scottish Parliament. I am sure that that is included in the code."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 625445,
      "EditedText": "If somebody does what I described—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 625448,
      "EditedText": "It is for committee conveners to exercise their judgment on such matters. If an item is not on the agenda and somebody persists in raising unscheduled business, it should be brought to the attention of the committee of conveners or the business managers of the party groups. It is not a matter for the Standards Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 625449,
      "EditedText": "It would be a matter for this committee if a convener—or another member of the committee—felt that the conduct of a member was unbecoming and in contravention of the standards that a member should have. If members are not operating according to the standards in the code, that should be referred to this committee—it would be for this committee to decide whether the member was acting outwith the code of conduct for MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 625454,
      "EditedText": "A couple of issues arose. We are trying to work out how the code will apply in all circumstances. I was slightly concerned about the final paragraph of page 4, which states:\"In representing people's interests, Members have a duty to respect individual privacy, unless there are overwhelming reasons in the wider public interest for disclosure to be made.\"That is a public interest defence of disclosure, which arguably gives any member the opportunity to say, \"I believed that there was wider public interest for disclosure in this instance.\" I do not think that that is what we intended. We should examine that phrasing to make it clear that when information is given to a member in confidence, they are obliged to respect that confidence. We should not give members a code through which a clever lawyer could drive a coach and horses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 625455,
      "EditedText": "Des McNulty has made a good point. If members of the public have approached an MSP with a problem, the MSP has a duty to respect that individual's privacy. They should not disclose information to anybody, regardless of whether there is a wider public interest, unless they have the approval and support of the person who approached them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 625456,
      "EditedText": "I disagree. If somebody tells me that they have murdered somebody or are dealing in drugs, they may not give me permission to disclose that information, but I say on the record that I would disclose that information to the police. That is my duty as a member who has the interest of the whole community at heart. This goes back to our long discussion about how we balance confidentiality of constituency cases with the interest of the community. The code says what I want it to say. Perhaps there could be a better form of words, but I want it to say that members must respect individual confidentiality unless there is a reason, which they can justify, not to do so. I must know where my boundaries lie and other members must know where theirs are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 625457,
      "EditedText": "I must admit that the thought had not occurred to me that we might be talking about murder; I was thinking of folk with housing problems and the like. I take Karen Gillon's point about someone confessing their crime to a member. The wider public interest must be addressed in certain circumstances. We must find a form of words that will take that into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 625458,
      "EditedText": "That is the point that I was going to make. I think that the wording needs to be tightened up, particularly with regard to crime. We must specifically mention that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 625463,
      "EditedText": "We should change the wording to state that members have a duty not to place themselves under any financial or other obligation to any individual or organisation that might be seen to influence them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 625466,
      "EditedText": "That point should be made in the paragraph on leadership, which states:\"Members have a duty to promote and support these principles by leadership and example, to maintain and strengthen the public's trust and confidence in the integrity of the Parliament and its Members in conducting public business.\"We could add a line to that, unless there is somewhere later in the code to which we could add it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C625471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18752,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ID": 18752,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 625471,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 11:15."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C625236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18750,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18750,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 625236,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:41"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18750,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18750,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 625237,
      "EditedText": "Good morning and welcome to the 15th meeting of the Standards Committee. Before we start item 1 of the agenda, we should consider how we will handle item 2, which is the consideration of our draft report on the complaint against Mike Watson. I think that the report should enter the public domain only after the committee has agreed to its content. Do we agree that we should consider the draft report in private?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18750,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18750,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 625239,
      "EditedText": "As you know, convener, I will absent myself from that discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 625242,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for not being here when you discussed this before. The last line of the second paragraph says:\"Others will choose to employ experts to present their views in the most effective way.\" I take exception to the word \"experts\", as it gives lobbyists a status that they may not deserve. I think that \"others\" would be a more appropriate word."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 625246,
      "EditedText": "All right. We can come back to that point, but you have flagged it up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 625254,
      "EditedText": "That is a valid point. How can we tell what others intend? However, before we alter the sentence, I would like to hear the views of other committee members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 625258,
      "EditedText": "We need to be strict about people's relationships with lobbying organisations, but the other organisations dealt with in section 8.2 are different. Constituency groups may give MSPs a bunch of flowers, for example, when they attend an event and MSPs might regularly have lunch with a particular organisation. I regularly go to meetings with Lanarkshire Development Agency, which may or may not involve lunch, but LDA is a major influence and a major source of income in my constituency. It is a legitimate job for me to meet its representatives and to lobby them. I have a difficulty with lumping lobbyists in with everybody else. We have to be very clear about how we should deal with lobbyists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 625265,
      "EditedText": "That refers directly to the experience gained in our previous investigation. We are making it clear that privileged access is not acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 625272,
      "EditedText": "The only difficulty with removing \"professional\" is that we have used that term earlier to signify the difference between those commercial companies that accept remuneration to lobby for clients and others who lobby, such as interest groups and professional organisations. If we remove \"professional\", we will have changed our definition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 625278,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure what Adam Ingram is going to say—he might influence what I am going to say. However, Lord James identifies the reason why we should remove the word \"professional\" in this paragraph, but leave it in the preceding paragraphs. We are talking about preferential access—we should not offer preferential access to any group, whether voluntary, charitable or whatever. That is where clarification is needed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 625279,
      "EditedText": "That is my point precisely. As I said, I think that the definition of professional lobbyists in this paragraph is too narrow. However, the key to the definition will come when we are considering the regulation of lobbyists. In this document, we have to concern ourselves with the conduct of MSPs, which will be dealt with if \"professional\" is removed from the relevant lines on page 4. The committee will need to reconsider the definition of professional lobbyist if and when we discuss the regulation of lobbyists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C625285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 625285,
      "EditedText": "Can I clarify this point? I have read the SCVO letter carefully and it appears to me that, although it is not a lobbying organisation, it might act in a lobbying capacity. I do not think that it would be caught by the provisions that we are seeking to agree today. I want to make that clear. If reference is made back to this meeting at a later stage, I want to be able to say fairly that our view is that the SCVO will not be caught by these provisions because we do not see it as a professional—in the normal sense of the word—lobbying organisation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 625286,
      "EditedText": "It is clear that the SCVO is not a professional lobbying organisation but, if you look back at section 6.1, you will we see the references to \"any person or organisation who lobbies\".Anybody who lobbies an MSP must be aware of the rules."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 625288,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any thoughts or comments on page 5?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 625289,
      "EditedText": "It is important that mention is made there of staff working for members. Karen Gillon has made that point several times in the course of these discussions, and it should be highlighted that MSPs' staff are subject to these guidelines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 625292,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty with that is that it would be saying, \"Thou shalt not\", when the members might not be aware of the situation. I understand what you are saying. However, if we say in a rule that members should not do this and they do it unawares, that would mean that they are breaking the rule. Do you see what I mean? That is why it is useful to include the word \"avoid\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 625295,
      "EditedText": "I think that we need to send out a stronger signal to the people organising such events."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 625297,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. However, do you think that this code will be published and nobody else will read it? We do not exist in a vacuum. Other people will read the code to see what standards we are setting for ourselves and to work out ways of getting round them. That is why we need something a bit stronger."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 625301,
      "EditedText": "That is why the word needs to be included."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 625305,
      "EditedText": "As if."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 625308,
      "EditedText": "That is fine—\"if they are or become aware\" would cover that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 625314,
      "EditedText": "I think that this comes back to the point of how the invitation is worded. That is the key. People can be invited to pay to attend a function and have someone sit at their table. The key issue is whether \"paying to attend an event will result in preferential access to or treatment by MSPs.\"I can sit at the same table as somebody, but that does not mean that they have any influence over me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 625317,
      "EditedText": "The key issue is whether\"paying to attend the event will result in preferential access or treatment by MSPs.\"I do not think that the rule creates a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 625319,
      "EditedText": "For entertainment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 625320,
      "EditedText": "If we are saying that by sitting next to somebody at a dinner, members are giving them preferential access and special treatment, members could not have attended The Herald's politician of the year awards. That is silly. If it were the case, we would have to stay in this wee building and have no contact with the outside world. If I attend a dinner, I know what the invitation says. I saw the invitation for The Herald's dinner, and it did not offer any preferential access to me as a member of this Parliament. It said that there would be MPs and MSPs at each table, not that people would be able to lobby them or influence them. If I am invited to something as a guest or a speaker, I want to see the invite—I want to check myself what is being said about me before I go. However, we cannot live in a vacuum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 625321,
      "EditedText": "I take that on board. That is a very sensible interpretation of what we are trying to achieve. Are there any other comments?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625328",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 625328,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C625329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 625329,
      "EditedText": "The section is pretty much the same, except for changes that have been made because it is a different format. It is addressed differently, but in substance it is the same."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625332",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 625332,
      "EditedText": "I think that the intention of that statement is to highlight the relationship with the staff. We can broaden that out if members wish."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 625333,
      "EditedText": "From memory of a meeting of the corporate body at which equal opportunities was discussed, I think that we extended the requirement to include, for example, people who are contracted to work for the Parliament, as some of the security and catering staff are not direct employees of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 625335,
      "EditedText": "On equal opportunities, the document mentions dealings with parliamentary staff and appropriate behaviour. Over the page, there is a bit about members' responsibility for the staff whom they employ. The order of presentation might be seen to exclude members' staff from the equal opportunities provision. We should reorder the provisions so that members' staff are appropriately encompassed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 625339,
      "EditedText": "The proposal removes any reference to repeated gifts, hospitality or attendance at football matches, to which some members, but not others, get access. If members want to go and watch Airdrie, I am sure that that can be arranged. That reference needs to be kept. Gifts or acts of hospitality may be small, but if they happen frequently, they may give rise to certain beliefs. Again, it is important to draw a distinction between organisations that one would be expected to meet regularly and other kinds of organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 625340,
      "EditedText": "That is a very fair point. We will incorporate a reference to the frequency of receipt in the last sentence of the proposal.The proposed amendment says that \"a member should not accept any offer that might reasonably be thought to influence, or be intended to influence\" a member's judgment. That relates to the same point that Karen Gillon raised earlier. Should we remove \"or be intended to influence\" as that assumes that one knows what the other person is thinking, although that is not in the control of the MSP? Are we happy to remove that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 625345,
      "EditedText": "You usually want to remove repetition, but not on this occasion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 625347,
      "EditedText": "You are quite right.We will move on to smoking. No comment, Tricia? Are there any comments on alcohol, health and safety, and office stationery and mail?I have been reminded that we said we would return to the lobbying element of hospitality in light of what we decided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 625348,
      "EditedText": "Tricia has reminded me about one issue that I should have picked up. We need to make our wording on alcohol consistent with that of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body; the intent is the same, but the wording is at variance. We need to avoid inconsistency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 625352,
      "EditedText": "In the paragraph on alcohol, there should be a full stop after \"during office hours\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 625356,
      "EditedText": "It is discouraged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 625357,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is discouraged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 625360,
      "EditedText": "May I return to the issue of alcohol? Come on now: are we getting silly? Members are over 18 years old. They are adults and must exercise judgment. Members should not be under the influence of alcohol while performing their parliamentary duties, but a glass of wine with lunch at a function is acceptable. Do we want members to be reported to the Standards Committee every time they have a glass of wine with their lunch? I know that the wording does not say that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 625361,
      "EditedText": "It does not say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 625364,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 625365,
      "EditedText": "Does it have the effect that Karen is suggesting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 625367,
      "EditedText": "But we are discussing the code of conduct for MSPs. As Karen said, we are all adults. At the end of the day, we must exercise our judgment, which is better at some times than at others. It is difficult for us to say to folk that they are discouraged from having a glass of wine or a beer at lunch time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 625369,
      "EditedText": "But we do not have the form of words used by the SPCB."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 625370,
      "EditedText": "I was just suggesting that we look at the two forms of words and sort them out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 625372,
      "EditedText": "I have been informed that there is an understanding that the SPCB rules apply to members of staff and are not meant to apply to MSPs. Is that correct, Des?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 625373,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 625382,
      "EditedText": "In general, I am happy with that, but with regard to lobbyists we need to have stronger wording than:\"should treat with caution any offer of hospitality, a gift, a favour or benefit.\"Professional lobbying companies sell themselves on having access to MSPs—we have seen evidence of that. Mrs Smith in Clydesdale does not sell herself on the basis that she can speak to Karen Gillon MSP. We must be stricter with those companies than we are with anyone else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 625385,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 625386,
      "EditedText": "I am not comfortable that the wording is strong enough for the lobbying section."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 625387,
      "EditedText": "We can leave lobbying in that section. The first paragraph on page 4 of section 6 says:\"A member is unlikely to be considered to be influenced by accepting a token such as a diary at Christmas from a person or firm engaged in lobbying, but acceptance of a gift or benefit of even slightly more significance, such as free tickets to major sporting or cultural events, could lead others to think that the member's judgement might be influenced.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 625388,
      "EditedText": "We need to consider this, because it is a jumble. I am not happy about inserting the proposed form of words in the general conduct section. We need to be tighter on this issue, because the situation is different.Convener, you added a paragraph saying that it is not acceptable for a member to provide remunerated services. That is not covered. We need to look at this matter again. The clerks know how strongly I feel about it, and may be able to come up with an appropriate form of words for the final draft, rather than committee members trying to thrash something out today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 625391,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 8.3(c) states that no abusive language is allowed. To me, shouting \"Liar, liar\" across the chamber is abusive language. That is clear. It is up to the Presiding Officer at the time to ensure that that rule is applied."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 625394,
      "EditedText": "The point is noted, but I think that it is outwith our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 625395,
      "EditedText": "I understand Tricia Marwick's point and, in one way, I agree completely, but if one allowed a member to rebut what has already been said, we might end up with two people shouting at each other. Sometimes it has to be left to judgment and common sense. As a general principle, members should not say anything offensive about another member that might require immediate rebuttal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 625396,
      "EditedText": "Let us move on to page five."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 625400,
      "EditedText": "\"Confidentiality Requirements\" was discussed at length at the conveners group yesterday. There are concerns about confidentiality and I would like members to examine section 8.4 carefully to ensure that they are happy with it.Are there any comments on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 625408,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 625410,
      "EditedText": "I think that—now—we all know what you are getting at, convener, but you should not have raised the matter if you were not going to be explicit, because we are talking at cross-purposes. Members are aware of the issue.There is an issue about the Health and Community Care Committee report, which was featured in the papers before the committee had published it. However, I do not think that paragraph 8.4 deals with that issue. If that is what we are discussing, we must reconsider what the code says. If a committee paper is confidential to the committee, and committee members are aware of that, would a leak be a matter for a disciplinary process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 625412,
      "EditedText": "There is some confusion. At Westminster, there is a clear procedure for select committee reports, which should not be leaked—in any way—to anybody outside the committee, regardless of party background. That is not clear in the context of the Scottish Parliament. If we are trying to say something similar here, the section needs some work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 625416,
      "EditedText": "However, there is a difference between a draft report and a final committee report. When our final committee report on the investigation into the issue surrounding Jack McConnell was published, I understood that I should not give a copy of that report to anybody before it was made publicly available. I understood that because we had discussed it in the committee—I had not been told formally.There is an issue about draft committee reports and whether they might be given a status that they do not deserve. However, that should not be confused with the issue of the confidentiality of a final committee report before it is published."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C625418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 625418,
      "EditedText": "It might be worth putting in an extra sentence. Committees are far more important in the Scottish Parliament because there is no second chamber. Their work is essential. The wording should put our committees on at least the same level as select committees at Westminster. That must be clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 625420,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly the point that is made at the top of page 6, which says:\"This means that, unless the Parliament agrees otherwise, such documents should not be circulated, shown, or transmitted in any other way to members of the public, press or to any member of any organisation outwith the Parliament including the Scottish Executive, nor to other MSPs who are not members of the committee\".I would like to insert the words \"or the relevant committee\" after the word \"Parliament\" in that first line. That is quite specific, and tells MSPs unambiguously that documents are to be treated confidentially if that is how the committee wants to operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 625423,
      "EditedText": "If members choose to leak other documents, that would be a breach of the code."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 625432,
      "EditedText": "The final sentence of that paragraph could expose members to allegations with which it might be difficult for this committee to deal. It says:\"Nor should information deriving from such documents be disclosed either in writing or orally.\"That is quite vague. If that is to constitute an offence, the wording must be framed more tightly, although I understand what is meant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 625433,
      "EditedText": "I understood it to mean that, if I had a document that was not in the public domain, I could not read it to a journalist over the telephone. That would be as bad as giving them a printed or hand-written copy, and would constitute a leak. Perhaps the wording needs to be tidied up, but I would not like us to say that I would not be committing an offence unless I physically handed the document to someone who should not have it. We are not that stupid. As I understand it, people who leak documents do not usually give the whole document away; they give away parts of it or information about it. There are ways and means of leaking a document without actually handing it over. If a member has privileged access to a document, they should not be passing that information on to anybody else until the matter becomes public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 625434,
      "EditedText": "That is what I think the section should say. I do not disagree with the intent, but the terms are vague. It should say that to leak privileged information, in writing or orally, may be considered an offence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 625440,
      "EditedText": "Karen's suggestion is sensible. We should return to the key principles in section 1. We delayed considering them because I wanted Des McNulty to be present for that discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 625441,
      "EditedText": "I have concerns about attempts to change the pattern of committees or to introduce business that is not on the agenda. Some people have introduced issues to a committee and then dived out to brief the press, disrupting the business of the committees as a result. That is one issue of standards of behaviour that we must address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 625444,
      "EditedText": "Standards concern behaviour and conduct. The issue that you have raised is a procedural one, which is being addressed by the committee of conveners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 625447,
      "EditedText": "If people persistently raise matters that are not on the agenda to make a purely political point and then tell the press about it, that is a procedural problem. Is it also a standards issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 625452,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to disagree with my colleague, but that is a matter of judgment for the convener; it is not a matter for the code of conduct. It may not even be the convenor who has the complaint; any MSP on the committee may have a concern about another member. That raises issues about enforcement and how people make complaints."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 625453,
      "EditedText": "That issue is about enforcement, which we will consider at our next meeting.We will now consider any additions to the introduction and key principles. There is a point of disagreement on public duty, which we can discuss when we consider the whole code of conduct. I know that Des McNulty has a few comments to make about the introduction and key principles. He requested that we consider this section again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 625459,
      "EditedText": "Okay. We will now move on to pages 5 and 6."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 625460,
      "EditedText": "We have discussed integrity before. The wording is \"might influence them\". The issue is that people or organisations might be seen to influence MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 625462,
      "EditedText": "On integrity, on page 5."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 625464,
      "EditedText": "In the section on acceptance of hospitality, we used the words \"that might reasonably be thought to influence\". We should use the same form of words on integrity.Do members have any other points on pages 5 or 6?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 625467,
      "EditedText": "We are considering making an addition to the introduction of section 8, which is on general conduct and conduct in the chamber. We could adapt that. Are members happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C625468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 625468,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 625469,
      "EditedText": "If the committee is happy with that, that completes agenda item 1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 625244,
      "EditedText": "That change will be made.Is there anything else on page 1? I am not going too fast, as I know that we galloped through the draft code yesterday.Are there any comments on page 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C625249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 625249,
      "EditedText": "In the United Kingdom Parliament, parliamentarians act as consultants, and that is legitimate. Your wording is tight. I do not object to the suggestion, but the practice is followed in the UK Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 625256,
      "EditedText": "We were given the copy in advance. If members are agreed, we will deal now with the guidance on allowances in 8.2, which is about general conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 625260,
      "EditedText": "We could play around with the form of words that I suggest we insert in section 8 to deal with Karen's concerns about lobbyists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 625261,
      "EditedText": "I am getting photocopies done of the extract that you showed me, Tricia, so that everyone has it in front of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 625263,
      "EditedText": "We will come back to section 8.2; when we do, we can refer back to the issue of lobbyists.Are there any comments on page 4?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 625268,
      "EditedText": "There are a lot of references on this page to professional lobbyists. I argue that the definition is too narrow. The document says:\"Members should treat with caution any offer from professional lobbyists\".When we talk about preferential access to or treatment of professional lobbyists and so on, we are in danger of making the definition far too narrow. I bow to no one in my opposition to—or disapproval of—professional lobbyists as defined in the document. However, we cannot steer MSPs towards the idea that it is all right for them to talk to paid lobbyists from any organisation and to give them preferential access or treatment. That is my problem with the earlier, narrow definition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 625270,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 625273,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I understand that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 625274,
      "EditedText": "I understand Tricia's point but I am not sure that what is suggested will change our definition. I glanced quickly at the preceding pages and I think that we still make it clear that there is a distinction between professional and other kinds of lobbyists and that this paragraph applies to both categories. We are not offering preferential access or treatment to either category, so the paragraph works."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 625280,
      "EditedText": "Okay. Are members happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 625282,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that is what this paragraph means at all. We are talking about preferential treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 625287,
      "EditedText": "Following on from what Lord James said, although the SCVO is not a professional lobbying organisation, I think that it would be perfectly happy with this form of words. I do not wish to speak for the SCVO, but I think that this clears up any ambiguity and clears the way for those legitimate organisations that wish to lobby MSPs on behalf of charities or voluntary organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625290",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 625290,
      "EditedText": "The last paragraph of section 6.3 says that. We discussed it at our previous meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 625294,
      "EditedText": "I was just flagging up the difficulty. I understand what you are saying."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625296",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 625296,
      "EditedText": "We need to remember that these rules are for MSPs and that it is they, primarily, who will read them."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625299",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 625299,
      "EditedText": "The advice that I am getting is that that would cause great difficulties, on the grounds that if members go to an event that people are paying to attend—it might be a conference—those people are bound to get access to MSPs."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625300",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 625300,
      "EditedText": "That is my point. That is why we should remove the word \"preferential\". Access is not the problem, but preferential access, as we say in the previous paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625304",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 625304,
      "EditedText": "Cheeky."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625307",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 625307,
      "EditedText": "While listening to our discussion, the clerks have come up with a suggestion. There is a possible solution. We could change the paragraph to read, \"Members should not participate in any event if they are aware that the impression given by the organisers is that paying to attend the event will result in preferential access to or treatment by MSPs\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625310",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 625310,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed to remove the last sentence of that paragraph?Members indicated agreement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C625311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 625311,
      "EditedText": "How will the third-last paragraph on page 5 affect party events? If, for example, MSPs are present at a dinner or lunch that is arranged by a political party, which people pay to attend and which is addressed by a party leader, will they be caught by this provision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625312",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 625312,
      "EditedText": "That is a very good question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625315",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
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      "ID": 169
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 625315,
      "EditedText": "Could we check that out?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625318",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 625318,
      "EditedText": "But why would people want to come to a dinner if not for preferential access?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625323",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 625323,
      "EditedText": "I quite agree with you; that is how we will approach this. We will go away and the clerks will examine this. We will have an opportunity to consider it again when the whole report is presented to us on 14 January, or whenever that happens in January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C625324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 625324,
      "EditedText": "I am quite content with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625327",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 625327,
      "EditedText": "Is this draft section exactly the same as the published document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625331",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 625331,
      "EditedText": "Under \"Equal Opportunities\" on page 1, the document states:\"Members must adhere to this policy in their dealings with Parliamentary staff, and behave appropriately.\"Do we want to limit that requirement to parliamentary staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625337",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 625337,
      "EditedText": "On the acceptance of hospitality, I am suggesting that all the paragraphs that are in bold be removed from the code and that, in their place, we should insert the form of words that has been circulated to members."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625338",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 625338,
      "EditedText": "Is everybody happy about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 625341,
      "EditedText": "As everybody is happy with that, we will move on to page 3 on alcohol, smoking, health and safety, and office stationery and mail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 625342,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on, there should be something about staff accepting hospitality, gifts or other benefits that they receive as a result of being employed by a member of this Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 625344,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful to include a sentence at the end to say that the onus is on members to make judgments but, in case of doubt, they are encouraged to seek the advice of clerks. I know that that is a general point that is being made throughout, but it bears repetition on this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625350",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 625350,
      "EditedText": "The wording is quite tight already."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625358",
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      "ID": 3480
    },
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 625358,
      "EditedText": "The press guys will be out of a job."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 625359,
      "EditedText": "Can we keep to\"Acceptance of Hospitality, Gifts or other Benefits\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 625362,
      "EditedText": "No, but a vicious person could interpret it in that way. We need the correct form of words or we may look stupid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 625368,
      "EditedText": "The text does not say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625374",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 625374,
      "EditedText": "I am only asking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 625377,
      "EditedText": "Tricia made a point about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625390",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 625390,
      "EditedText": "It is becoming increasingly difficult, because members are shouting words such as \"liar\" across the chamber. I do not want to get into the Westminster system of unparliamentary language, but members must be told that shouting \"Liar, liar\" across the chamber is not appropriate. We must examine abuse of members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625392",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 625392,
      "EditedText": "Particular upset has been caused when a member who is speaking has named another member and not given that named member the chance to respond. I am not sure whether that point should be included in paragraph 8.3. It is a matter for the Presiding Officer and the Deputy Presiding Officers, but instruction needs to be given that if a member says something about another member, the member speaking must give way to allow the other to respond. If that were to happen, some of the more boorish behaviour in the chamber would cease. We have to nip that in the bud. I am not sure whether it is in our power, through the MSP code of conduct, to say that people should give way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 625393,
      "EditedText": "That is not a standards issue, but a matter for the Procedures Committee or for discussion with the Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625397",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 625397,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure about the paragraph that says that members should not be referred to as \"you\". Why has that suddenly appeared in the document? If my earlier point was not a matter for the Standards Committee, neither is this. It should be removed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625401",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 625401,
      "EditedText": "I feel that you are getting at something that escapes me, convener."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625403",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 625403,
      "EditedText": "Is there an issue of which we should be aware?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625405",
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    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 625405,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that the convener is not going to tell us about it at the moment.It might be useful for documents that are not to be placed in the public domain to be marked \"confidential to members\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 625406,
      "EditedText": "That was mentioned at the conveners group yesterday and we have all taken that on board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 625407,
      "EditedText": "That way, no one would be in any doubt about whether a document is confidential."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 625413,
      "EditedText": "That is what I am drawing to members' attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 625415,
      "EditedText": "I take all that on board, but I point out that that is why I asked members to examine the text. The text is specific—the second paragraph says that\"All drafts of Committee reports should be kept confidential, unless the Committee decides otherwise.\"That is quite clear and I do not think that we need to do much more work on it. That is why I was happy for members to consider it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 625417,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that we have had this discussion because it has emphasised my point; this is an important section of the code that has implications for the way in which the Parliament works. It is just a coincidence that there is a particular issue at the moment.The clerks have got the message and we will put this as tightly as possible for the January meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 625421,
      "EditedText": "This may be a helpful suggestion or it may not, and other members can shoot me down if they want to. I think that we should put in a line that says something like, \"Documents, once they are made public, will be available from the clerk to the committee or from the document supply centre.\" That would prevent members from being accused of being the source of a document. If a document is publicly available, it should be quite clear that it is published on the internet or through the clerks. Everyone should know where documents are coming from and the clerks should release only those documents that are in the public domain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 625425,
      "EditedText": "We should also include the phrase \"prior to official publication\". The wording as it stands says that\"documents should not be circulated, shown, or transmitted\"in any shape or form. That implies \"prior to official publication\", but it does not say it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 625428,
      "EditedText": "That refers to draft reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 625429,
      "EditedText": "We shall sort that out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 625430,
      "EditedText": "Can we come back to that point, Mike?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18751,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 625442,
      "EditedText": "That is a matter for the committee of conveners; a report is being prepared for that committee on that very point. We should therefore leave that matter for the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 625443,
      "EditedText": "It would need to be reflected in the standards documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 625446,
      "EditedText": "It is for the convener to rule out of order any matters that are raised inappropriately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1408709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 625450,
      "EditedText": "Karen Gillon is right. I have received advice that if MSPs' conduct in the performance of their parliamentary duties—that is a wide definition—falls below the standards that we expect, this committee has the remit and the authority to address that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 625451,
      "EditedText": "I am content with that, but we should incorporate into the code of conduct a reference to the fact that committee conveners have a responsibility to ensure that, when a member is acting in an unparliamentary way in committee, that is brought to the attention of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 625461,
      "EditedText": "Where are we?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18751,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18751,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 625465,
      "EditedText": "Were we not going to put the point about personal behaviour in this section?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3480
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18752,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ID": 18752,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 625470,
      "EditedText": "The next item is consideration of a draft report on the complaints against Mike Watson. As previously agreed, we will deal with this matter in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1565012+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 605088,
      "EditedText": "We will start with a presentation from Shelter before moving on to contributions from Malcolm and Tommy, who will not, I hope, feel prohibited from joining in the discussion. We try to encourage a lively interaction between guests and members.I welcome the representatives of Shelter to the committee. We have a strong relationship with Shelter and we respect the work that it does and the contribution that it makes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 605090,
      "EditedText": "How has Shelter been involved in the development of housing policy since the establishment of the Scottish Parliament?Why do you not oppose housing stock transfer? What benefits do you think it would bring? What is your experience of housing associations and do you think that they provide for the needs of homeless people?Some of the evidence that we have heard suggests that housing associations contribute to social provision in an area. To tackle homelessness, we need a social strategy as well as a housing strategy. Have you any comments to make on that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 605091,
      "EditedText": "I will answer your first question and then, perhaps, you can remind me of the other questions.Would you like to know what role Shelter has had in all areas of the Executive's housing policy or just as regards stock transfer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 605093,
      "EditedText": "Shelter has been represented on the rough sleepers initiative advisory group since before the opening of the Parliament. We have been involved in social inclusion and Gavin Corbett has been on an associated working party. We are involved with the homelessness task force. We spoke to the new housing partnership steering group in January, when we first put the case that we are making today. We have met the new housing partnership steering group twice in the past three weeks because we are examining the detail of what will happen to homeless people after the stock transfer. We met with the Executive prior to publication of the proposed legislation to make suggestions about how to combat homelessness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 605094,
      "EditedText": "You have been reasonably well involved in the new housing partnership steering group. Do you want to draw anything about that to the attention of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 605097,
      "EditedText": "The steering group is beginning to listen. As I said, 18 months ago we were getting nowhere and there was not a lot of support for what we were saying. The issue of homelessness had been ignored and the documents that were produced on new housing partnerships contained a lot of information about tenant consultation but nothing about people who do not have a house. We were pushing for a long time before such people were put on the agenda. Although there has been no public announcement or written guidance for local authorities on what to do about homelessness—which is what we would like to be given to councils that are transferring their stock—the debate has shifted. It is accepted that homelessness must be addressed in the context of stock transfer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 605101,
      "EditedText": "We have always argued that if more houses were built, and if the housing stock were improved, more jobs would be created—jobs that should be targeted at local people. In that way, we could channel work opportunities to homeless people. However, that is not an idea that we have explored in any great depth. Our concern is to ensure that people's rights will still exist after stock transfer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 605102,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. I shall now open up the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 605112,
      "EditedText": "Good. I should be neutral, but I am not.The key to tackling homelessness is access to affordable rented housing. Do you think that councils being forced to sell 360,000 houses to sitting tenants has had an impact on homelessness in Scotland? Do you accept the Executive's view that extending the right to buy to housing association tenants will only lead to around 850 properties being bought by sitting tenants a year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 605114,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is very unlikely that only 850 houses will be sold. Over the past five years, people have been saying that the right to buy is on its last legs, and that all the houses that could have been bought have been bought. Sales continue to tick along quite healthily: there were more than 20,000 last year. The idea that the model predicting only 850 sales is robust is very questionable, and I hope that, if the Executive decides to proceed, it will reconsider the matter and monitor the take-up that has occurred."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 605115,
      "EditedText": "One of the changes in housing over the past four years has been the transfer by Scottish Homes of thousands of houses to housing associations. However, the evidence that you are presenting is that, while there are more housing association houses than ever, fewer councils are able to successfully nominate tenants to them. What is the problem with housing associations? Why are they not accepting local authority nominations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 605117,
      "EditedText": "The current nomination arrangements do not work. That is why we say that there should be a new legal duty for local authorities and housing associations to enter into a specific agreement covering the housing of vulnerable people. That would have a clear prescribed form, and the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities are working on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 605119,
      "EditedText": "One of the reasons why the current agreements do not work is that there has not been investment. Housing associations still only take up a bit of the housing stock, and most homeless people get local authority housing. The effort that would be required for a watertight nomination arrangement with all the new landlords is just not worth it, but investment has to be made when most or all housing stock is transferred. It is important that there is a statutory duty on agreements between local authorities and housing associations, and we suggest that that could be achieved by an amendment to the Housing (Scotland) Act 1987."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C605124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 605124,
      "EditedText": "In its written evidence, the Scottish Council for Single Homeless makes the case that resources transfers would enable rehabilitation and would improve the existing housing stock. You do not make that point, although it is fairly obvious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C605126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 605126,
      "EditedText": "You say \"if\" they were met."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 605127,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C605128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 605128,
      "EditedText": "So you are sceptical?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 605129,
      "EditedText": "I think that new housing partnerships are bringing new money into local authority housing if the stock is transferred. Houses will improve and some houses will be built as a result. That would not happen unless we changed the public sector borrowing requirement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C605131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 605131,
      "EditedText": "Liz said in her opening statement that Shelter supported independent landlords having a greater role, as long as they have a genuine community interest. How do you define a genuine community interest? To what extent have housing associations demonstrated it, as far as homeless people are concerned?My second point picks up on the points that John McAllion raised on the relationship between local authorities and housing associations, and the nomination arrangements. Gavin has just said that those arrangements do not work, and the figures in your report underline that. Is that because local authorities do not ask housing associations to take enough homeless people? Or do they ask, and the housing associations reply that they do not have enough accommodation?You point out that, although housing associations are taking on more former local authority stock, and should be housing an increasing proportion of homeless people, they are not. If stock transfers were to go through, they would have to take that responsibility. Are they equipped to take up that challenge? I do not really want to go into this, but if stock transfers were to go through, I assume that a majority of the staff would also transfer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 605146,
      "EditedText": "I should tell the witnesses that the committee will sometimes ask for particular material, although we hope that any witnesses will continue to submit material throughout the process.I have had an indication that Tommy Sheridan and Malcolm Chisholm want to speak. With the committee's permission, I will take them next."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C605147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 605147,
      "EditedText": "I have the greatest respect for Shelter's work, Liz, but I am a little disappointed with your evidence. I hoped that you would differentiate between stock transfers that have taken place and those that have been proposed. Since 1946, 12,000 properties in Glasgow have been transferred. There are now proposals to transfer 95,000 properties, 5,000 of which are empty. A detailed feasibility study estimates that 20,000 properties will either be demolished or will transfer in smaller packages, which will leave 75,000 core houses in some form of housing company or trust. I had hoped that Shelter would have been able to differentiate between a stock transfer that is part of a community regeneration scheme and encourages investment from the private sector, the housing sector and the council, and a transfer such as the one in Glasgow, which will lose 20,000 properties. I had also hoped that there would be an examination of how that would impact on homelessness, given that the problem in cities such as Glasgow is less a lack of homes than a lack of adequate homes. What is the difference between support for the principle of stock transfer and support for this specific transfer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C605155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 605155,
      "EditedText": "Could you expand a bit on paragraph 4.3 of your paper—on arbitration—where you say that agreements should be set out? I like the sound of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 605156,
      "EditedText": "There would be two options here. First, we could expand the role of the housing association ombudsman so that there is a kind of national arbitration system. Secondly, we could do what Berwickshire Housing Association does and appoint an arbiter at the beginning of the year who can be called in if there is a dispute. Our view is that a local appointment would be fine. It is important that a clear mechanism comes into play if arbitration does not work. It is not good enough for an arbiter to be locked in a protracted dispute while someone is having to live in a bed and breakfast. That is why we have suggested that local authorities should be able to say, \"We have been to arbitration. You are still not accepting the decision of the arbiter. We have the power to resume allocations for a month, six months or longer.\" It is important that the mechanism is given teeth in that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge (Scottish Council for Single Homeless): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 605164,
      "EditedText": "Inevitably, there will be an amount of overlap between what we say and what Shelter has said. If you prefer, I will go straight into answering the questions rather than giving a presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 605166,
      "EditedText": "That is okay. I am happy to move straight to the questions. We are keen for the opportunity offered by new housing partnerships to be used as a means of enhancing the chances of homeless people being housed in better accommodation. In the past, we have been concerned that most of the discussion about new housing partnerships has been about financial arrangements and the mechanism of stock transfer. We are pleased that people are now beginning to consider the implications for homelessness and that the new housing partnership advisory group is beginning to discuss that aspect. A lot of what is being discussed in those forums is about protecting homeless people's rights and ensuring that their situation does not get any worse. However, the contractual arrangements that local authorities have with new landlords offer an opportunity to improve the position of homeless people, although no one has begun to consider how that might be done. Contracts allow an element of flexibility and of improvement. Nevertheless, we believe that there must be a statutory base below which the service should not fall. That is part of the rest of our evidence. Scottish Homes is funding our research into the experience of stock transfers in England, where many local authorities are considerably further down the line, to identify any lessons that can be learned for Scotland. We are also examining the preparations that Scottish local authorities are making for the homelessness function in their stock transfers. We are now about two and a half months into a six-month research programme. We have found that the situation in England is quite patchy. One local authority in particular contracted out its homelessness function and has now taken it back, because things were not working out properly. On the other hand, we have found authorities where that function remains contracted out. We do not have the full details yet of why that should be the case. The analysis has not yet been carried out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 605168,
      "EditedText": "Our response will be similar to that given by Shelter. The housing association movement in Scotland has largely comprised small housing associations, of which there are different kinds—specialist and community-based associations and a smaller group of general needs associations. Quite a large change is happening; some housing associations are taking on a large, general needs stock. They will have to adapt their procedures to cope with that. Our research has found that nominations are not working well universally. Sometimes that is largely the fault of the local authority. It may offer a housing association tenancy to a good tenant as a reward, which means that it will not nominate homeless people to housing association tenancies. Sometimes it is the fault of individual housing associations, which do not meet their obligations. The picture is patchy. We cannot say that it is the fault of X or Y that nominations are not happening overall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 605171,
      "EditedText": "I did not mean necessarily to hand, but do you have them somewhere?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 605173,
      "EditedText": "I may come back to some of the points you made about specialist associations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 605175,
      "EditedText": "No one can be sure. We want to concentrate on ensuring that houses of the right quality are available. Stock transfers are happening. We must ensure that when they happen, they do so in the way that is most beneficial to homeless people and that safeguards are in place to ensure that homeless people get a proper crack of the whip. I appreciate your concern, which we share, that some of the stock transfer arrangements may mean that rents will have to increase above the rate of inflation, which could lead, for example, to an increase in the poverty trap. Housing benefit is available to assist people, although a number of the Government's comments suggest that the whole housing benefit regime may be up for review. We certainly have very strong concerns about the original proposal that every person will have to pay a proportion of rent from their own resources, because that is simply not feasible. I share your concerns about poverty and homelessness, but we are well on the road to new housing partnerships. We must ensure that the interests of homeless people are safeguarded within that context. That is the issue on which we have been concentrating our resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C605178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 605178,
      "EditedText": "My question relates to temporary accommodation. As you state in your paper, there is no indication of what the Executive's intentions are in that respect. I would be interested to know what your preferred option would be—Shelter may want to contribute as well. Do you feel that the local authority should retain a pool of houses to be used for temporary accommodation—possibly on the social work account—or do you feel that there should be a statutory obligation on the new housing provider to have such a pool? How do you think it would be best administered?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 605179,
      "EditedText": "We share Shelter's view that it would be best for the local authority to retain a stock of temporary accommodation. I would need to think a little more about whether that should be on the social work account or the housing account, because this is essentially a housing matter rather than a social work matter.The key point that concerns us is how we ensure homeless people move on. At the moment, there is a strong move towards examining how to create balanced communities in housing associations. We are concerned that people with the most acute housing need may have to wait a considerable time before they fit into the balance that has been identified for a community.We have to ensure that there are procedures in place to ensure that people in the greatest housing need move on from temporary accommodation as quickly as possible. It is a problem that there is no financial incentive for the new landlord to take on somebody who is in temporary accommodation. We are concerned that, with a plethora of landlords, a number of refusals will be made one after the other. That is why the partnerships advisory group's investigation of why and when a registered social landlord would be permitted to refuse an allocation is so important. Time scales are important, and it is important that individuals are not pushed from pillar to post."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C605180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 605180,
      "EditedText": "You have flagged up an important issue—balanced communities. You will appreciate that communities sometimes do not wish to be particularly balanced because they feel that the introduction of some elements among the people with whom you deal might be disruptive. How do you think we can reassure the wider community that that will not present much of a difficulty?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 605201,
      "EditedText": "Is the 50:50 type of arrangement that I have described common? Does it normally work? Are other sorts of arrangement the problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 605202,
      "EditedText": "Yes, with respect to new properties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 605204,
      "EditedText": "Could you repeat the question, please?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 605205,
      "EditedText": "If stock transfers go ahead, we must consider how to deal with homelessness and keeping communities together. We have various priorities. Can you suggest any changes in procedures which—forgetting arbitration, if it all goes wrong—might make the change happen in the way that the policy makers want, in a more automatic way? Are there any procedural aspects that you have considered, which might be of help?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C605207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 605207,
      "EditedText": "We have already had a discussion about the deregulation and contracting-out legislation in England. In your written submission, you strongly urge us not to go down that avenue in Scotland. First, could you expand further on why you think that we should not pursue that in Scotland?Secondly, I should be interested to hear your suggestions for improving the current nomination arrangements between housing associations and local authorities.My third and final question is on the last section of your submission, on partial transfers. You note particular concerns about partial transfers and the possibility that they will lead to local authorities having sole responsibility for the provision of housing for people with multiple problems. Does that mean that you are against partial transfers? If so, can you expand a little on your reasons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C605214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 605214,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry about my nasal tones—they are getting worse. In response to Fiona Hyslop's questions, you referred to the extent to which statutory provision should be made for the code of guidance, which you said needed to be reviewed. Your submission states that\"local authorities ‘must have regard' to the Code\".Should that be given statutory backing and apply to the new landlords, if the provisions on housing stock transfer in the bill are accepted? I have another question, but could you deal with that point first?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 605215,
      "EditedText": "The SCSH has always taken the view that the code of guidance should have the force of law, rather than local authorities simply having to have regard to it when exercising their homelessness function. We think that the code should also be extended to new social landlords, because if they accept transferred stock and take on the role of the landlord, it would seem strange if they did not have the same minimum responsibilities towards homeless people as are suggested in the code. However, for the code to be effective, it will have to be reviewed and slightly rewritten, as it deals both with the interpretation of the homelessness legislation in relation to the homelessness function, which we hope will remain with the local authorities, and with good practice for landlords. Those two elements should be teased out and reviewed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 605219,
      "EditedText": "It would be most helpful if social landlords had a statutory duty to abide by the code."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C605222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 605222,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that you are more concerned about the rural and smaller urban areas than about the big cities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 605224,
      "EditedText": "In response to Malcolm Chisholm's question, Gavin said that a number of other right-to-buy issues, such as discount levels and so on, should be considered and that we should focus on them. Do you recommend a similar approach?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 605225,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. The level of discount is very large. The Executive paper, to which I referred, suggests that the cap on the discount should be maintained, but that would affect only a small minority of cases—few people get a £30,000 discount on their house. It is clear that all social landlords are able to sell their houses to tenants—there is nothing to stop them doing that or deciding what discount to offer. We must consider where the right to buy should come in, at what level the discount should be set and whether we can replace with other socially rented houses the houses that are lost through the right to buy, to ensure that the pool of available houses does not continue to shrink."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 605226,
      "EditedText": "I have a question about the needs of single people, on which, unfortunately, we do not have time to focus, although I know that that is a critical issue for you and for housing in Scotland. Is there proper provision for single people? Rather than addressing their needs through overall policy, do we need to develop strategies for specialist provision for them? If we need such strategies, is the debate on housing policy taking us there?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 605227,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that single people need specialist provision, as single people become couples and couples become single people.We need to re-examine homelessness legislation—the idea has been floated by the homelessness task force. Twenty years ago, that legislation gave priority to people with children and people with additional needs, due, for example, to old age or disability, but most single people who were homeless were not given priority for rehousing. There may be a need to make homelessness legislation fit current demographic patterns. Perhaps a minimum level of support should be given to anybody who is homeless."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 605228,
      "EditedText": "Do we need to think again about liaison on mental health or community care issues between, for example, the health service and social work services? Is there an opportunity in the housing debate to consider that matter, or would that be a diversion?I am taking you into another subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 605229,
      "EditedText": "That would be an interesting debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C605231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 605231,
      "EditedText": "Your submission states that the housing association movement claims that it houses more people from the non-statutory homeless list and that that balances up the relatively low proportion of statutory homeless people. Do you have figures to back up that statement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 605232,
      "EditedText": "There is some evidence in the Scottish continuous recording—SCORE—research that is done by the housing association movement. That research monitors lettings, although it has gaps and is not hugely reliable or accurate. If housing associations will now be asked to concentrate on, and meet targets for, statutory homeless people, that should not prevent them housing non-statutory homeless people, which many housing associations do particularly well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 605235,
      "EditedText": "About £3 million of the cost of provision of temporary accommodation for the homeless comes from housing support grants; about £5 million comes from revenue support grants; and the rest, which may be quite a lot, must come from rents. The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities has undertaken to examine this issue in more detail for the reason that John McAllion mentioned, that the whole system collapses when there is not a big housing revenue account to support it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 605241,
      "EditedText": "Anti-social behaviour has become a big issue recently, and evictions are more common than ever. What is the view of the homelessness organisations about the eviction of people for anti-social behaviour? Should such people have rights? Also, should anybody be evicted for rent arrears?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 605242,
      "EditedText": "People mean different things by anti-social behaviour. In the most extreme cases, where everything else has failed, eviction has to happen, but that will only apply to a very small minority of cases of what is generally described as anti-social behaviour. There are other options.The effectiveness of anti-social behaviour orders, which were introduced in recent legislation, has not yet been monitored. The advantage of such orders is that they can be levied on people other than tenants and they do not result in people losing their homes.It is also important that there should not be different rules on anti-social behaviour for tenants and owner-occupiers. Why should a person lose their home just because they are a tenant, when they would not lose their home if they were an owner-occupier who was anti-social? There are other extensive powers that exist to help, such as mediation, which is expensive but is probably one of the most effective ways of dealing with the problem. It helps people to learn how to live together in situations affected by the less extreme forms of anti-social behaviour, such as neighbour nuisance. There are a whole range of solutions to what is commonly known as anti-social behaviour. Eviction should only be a last resort and should only apply to a very small minority of cases.On rent arrears, I am concerned that the new landlords may be under strong financial pressure to perform well in rent collection. We must ensure that there are sufficient safeguards so that people are not evicted without very good cause. Again, in extreme cases, eviction might be necessary, but before the need for it is reached, a whole lot of issues, such as money advice, should be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 605249,
      "EditedText": "The Executive said that it would carry out a careful study, in collaboration with Scottish Homes, of the implications of extending the right to buy to housing associations. Could we have a copy of that study?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 605250,
      "EditedText": "I will ask Martin Verity, the clerk, to write to the Executive on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C605251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 605251,
      "EditedText": "I would like to gather further statistical information on the issues that were raised in today's presentations. I am interested in information about partnerships between housing associations and local authorities, particularly in relation to joint letting allocation policies, and in the arbitration issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 605252,
      "EditedText": "I want members to highlight specific issues. I will inform the Scottish Parliament information centre of our research needs soon. Fiona Hyslop is laughing about SPICe having yet another responsibility piled upon it. I want to be able to ask the organisations specific questions as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C605255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 605255,
      "EditedText": "It is obviously a matter for the committee, as I am talking about a member of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C605256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 605256,
      "EditedText": "I did not have prior knowledge. Lloyd, if you look back through the Official Report, you will see that I have raised the issue of a single social tenancy with various bodies that have given evidence. I take an interest in the matter, which is why I lodged the question, an answer to which was sent to me yesterday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 605257,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for answering that question, Karen. However, I want to make it clear that it is not appropriate for members of the committee to be interrogated like that. Of course, members can seek clarification on issues that concern them, but there are parliamentary procedures for doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C605258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 605258,
      "EditedText": "Can you explain them to me?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 605261,
      "EditedText": "Are you sure about that, Alex?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 605262,
      "EditedText": "They were all new Labour members; John McAllion was the only old Labour member there. It was clear that members of that committee share some of our concerns, so it would be useful to have a reply from the Secretary of State about that.We still have not heard from Scottish Homes about its analysis. Given that it was promised six weeks ago, I suspect that Scottish Homes is in cahoots with the Executive and is trying to fiddle the figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 605263,
      "EditedText": "Hang on a minute, Alex. We will get clarification on that from the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 605266,
      "EditedText": "Scottish Homes provided the information after discussion with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 605272,
      "EditedText": "I assume that you will want to raise the issue again once you have considered that information. We will have to consider the financial issues again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 605276,
      "EditedText": "I shall come back to Alex Neil's points later. I want to explore the connections between social policies and housing policies. If the new housing associations do not liaise properly with social work and have no effective mechanism for ensuring that the health services and social work services meet the needs of homeless people, we could end up with another package of problems. Considering immediate housing needs simply on a short-term basis will create more social problems further down the line, and that should be explored as part of our social inclusion agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 605284,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 605286,
      "EditedText": "Should we not welcome Mr Gallie to the meeting and welcome his concern for social inclusion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 605287,
      "EditedText": "Mr Gallie is welcome to our meeting. You are sitting in the gallery—the body of the kirk, as it were—you can join us at the top table.He cannot resist, can he?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 605290,
      "EditedText": "I assume that people have given this issue some thought. Can I move to the recommendation, which is point 8? There was discussion in the social inclusion group about the need to examine credit and debt. I think that Robert Brown mentioned it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 605291,
      "EditedText": "I feel that I have not yet got a handle on credit in relation to loan sharks and what the effects of the warrant sale bill might be. We ought to examine that. Information on that might come out of the evidence sessions with Citizens Advice Scotland and the Department of Social Security, but I suspect that their evidence might be more anecdotal than we would like. I wonder whether research or studies have been carried out on credit and debt. It crossed my mind that it might be worthwhile talking to an organisation such as Scottish Provident, which is in the private sector but deals with people who are dependent on certain sorts of finance. Scottish Provident might have more experience in this area than almost anybody else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 605296,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 605302,
      "EditedText": "I have committed myself to getting the report to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and I will make sure that it is done by 26 January, come hell or high water."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 605310,
      "EditedText": "That was the decision that we made. Let us not change decisions from meeting to meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 605312,
      "EditedText": "With all due respect, that was raised at the last meeting and following the discussion we decided to settle for the officials. Martin Verity has sent an e-mail asking members for their preferred line of questioning. If we are not happy after that, we will reconsider our position. It is bad for the committee to change its decisions meeting after meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 605313,
      "EditedText": "I am not trying to change the decision. If, having heard evidence from officials, we decide to see a minister, there will be no time. It would be unreasonable to invite a minister on 12 January to give evidence a week later. I suggest that we take a decision to invite a minister now or that we give that minister warning that we might invite him to come up in January. We cannot give a minister one week's notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 605321,
      "EditedText": "We could write on 12 December and have an answer before we conclude this matter on 26 January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 605330,
      "EditedText": "Do not worry. John McAllion will hold Alistair Darling to account, as will we all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C605334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ID": 18318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 605334,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to come back with a programme of work, but before I start down that road I want to be clear about my role and what I could and could not do.One of our early briefings, which was from the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, flagged up a number of recommended areas that the committee should look at, from Scottish Criminal Record Office checks to charity law. I am happy to come back in the new year with an outline and proposals for work for the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C605335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ID": 18318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 605335,
      "EditedText": "It was an excellent paper, but we will have to prioritise. The steer that I got from your paper was in the direction of charity law. Undoubtedly, that inhibits a number of organisations. During your deliberations, Karen, did you speak to anyone from the Justice and Home Affairs Committee? I ask because there is an Executive committee to review charity law. If it is felt that our committee should have input, I suggest that we have a briefing session on charity law in order that we can comment on it intelligently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ID": 18318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 605337,
      "EditedText": "Could you pursue that matter quickly and come back to us on that report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C605338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ID": 18318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 605338,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 605108,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask Gavin Corbett about the rural aspect of the right to buy. It was announced this week that 18,000 additional homes will be built, mostly in rural areas. That is the same number that Scottish Homes planned to build anyway. If additional stock were removed from rural areas, is not there a danger that there might be a distinct shortage of housing, which might accentuate homelessness?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.9656621+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 605212,
      "EditedText": "We are concerned about the impact of partial transfers. In previous evidence sessions, concern has been raised that we might be developing housing ghettos for those who have difficulties. We are receiving that strong message.I want to address the right to buy, again. It seems to be a red herring to quote the figures 43,000 and 850 in the context of stock transfer. Those figures represent only existing stock, whereas a vastly increased amount of stock would be involved in stock transfer. You say that you would expect the new landlords to have a pool of temporary accommodation. However, they would have no income stream from that pool of temporary accommodation. Also, I am sure that private financiers would baulk at the prospect of the right to buy, as they would have to revisit their figures, which means that rents would increase. If rents increased, there would be problems for homeless people in sustaining their tenancies. So much that we are hearing today is predicated on statutory responsibilities and measures that would be introduced through a housing bill that will not be introduced until late in the summer. There is a danger that many assumptions are being made. Do you have every confidence that the homelessness problem will be enhanced by the new housing partnerships, or is much of what you are saying predicated on assumptions that statutory responsibilities will be met and that private financiers will not be scared by the right to buy and revise their figures? Is not much of what we have heard today the best-case scenario? Might it be helpful for us also to hear the average-case and worst-case scenarios, to give us a balanced view of the impact of the new housing partnerships?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.9656621+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 605237,
      "EditedText": "I have a quick question on the duty of new landlords to co-operate with councils to house homeless people. Do you think that a duty to co-operate is sufficient, or would it only be acceptable if it were backed up by statutory letting orders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 605247,
      "EditedText": "It is clear that the right-to-buy issue will have an impact on lenders' calculations and we can deal with the issue when we speak to the lenders. We should speak to the minister about it, but we are due to see her anyway and we will ensure that we discuss the right to buy.There has been a bit of confusion in what we have heard. We heard about scenario planning, and the pragmatism that is involved was evident. When we do a report, we will have to take a snapshot in time. That will involve a judgment call, but questioning the minister on the points that have been raised today would help us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 605092,
      "EditedText": "All housing policy, unless it will take too long to outline everything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 605095,
      "EditedText": "We have been invited to speak only about homelessness; we have not been involved in any other aspects of the steering group's work. We asked to speak to the group purely on homelessness, and we have discussed such issues as temporary accommodation and what happens if a housing association or a registered social landlord does not allocate housing to homeless people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 605107,
      "EditedText": "As a last resort, yes. We hope that, in the first instance, a registered social landlord would allocate housing, and that several different levels of dispute resolution could be used before exercising a draconian power to remove those allocations from that registered social landlord. We are talking about local authorities and registered social landlords. We must ensure that mechanisms are in place to ensure that a person who is assessed as homeless can also have the power to enforce an allocation if one is not made. Much detail must be worked out concerning the way in which those measures would work in practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 605111,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 605116,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that housing associations are the only culprits. Local authorities do not always give the required information on nominations. If we want to improve the situation for homeless people, we want clear information from both sides: from the local authority and the housing association.Housing associations have said in the past that they do not house as many statutory homeless people because they build for people with special needs and single people. They are not housing homeless families. On housing transfer, a lot more houses would be suitable for families who become homeless. There should have been a rise in the number of allocations to statutory homeless people by housing associations over the past few years, but the number has gone down instead.The anecdotal evidence is that housing associations are frequently used for transfers. People might serve their time in a council house and will get a council house allocated to them if they become homeless. They will serve their time and then go for a transfer, and may get a housing association house. Over the past few years, there has definitely been a decrease in direct allocation to statutory homeless people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 605118,
      "EditedText": "Most housing associations have an agreement with local authorities about accepting up to 50 per cent of councils' nominations, but that does not seem to work. Are you suggesting that agreements between local authorities and registered social landlords do not work, and that you need to have statutory backing to make them work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 605123,
      "EditedText": "We rely on the Executive's statistics, which tend to lag a year behind. We talk quite a lot to rural housing associations, and we would like to talk more to rural organisations to hear the evidence that they have collected. I am pretty sure that their views will be very different from the Executive's. We hope that the Executive will listen to the counter-arguments and counter-evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 605130,
      "EditedText": "One of the reasons why we have not focused on that point is because the debate has so far been dominated by detailed arguments about finance while policy issues have been ignored. This is a chance to redress the balance.In the long term, changing the names on the title deeds will not change the economics of people having low incomes and housing stock needing investment. New housing partnerships change the speed at which investment can be made. That should be welcomed, because we have a housing crisis today, not just tomorrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 605132,
      "EditedText": "By community interest we do not necessarily mean small housing associations. We want to provide a well-managed service. We are not saying that wholesale stock transfer will be detrimental to one particular landlord. We are interested in the management of that housing stock and its access and affordability. Community-based housing associations in Scotland have been successful in some areas, although I would not say that they had been especially successful in housing homeless people.We have to ensure that tenants are involved; but that is not an area that we have dwelt on. The area that we have dwelt on is the need to ensure that independent landlords are giving homeless people houses. That is our key concern. People must get secure, affordable housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 605133,
      "EditedText": "As for the problems with nomination arrangements, research into the question \"Whose fault is it?\"—to put it crudely—suggests that faults lie on both sides: local authorities seem reluctant to use their full powers for nominations, and there have been some problems with individual housing associations and other organisations negotiating or acting on an agreement in good faith.Going back to a point made earlier, one of the reasons why those problems have not been flushed out into the open before now is that housing associations have been very much minority players. They have had a very specialist role of providing for groups of people or communities. Only recently, with the Scottish Homes stock transfer, have they become mainstream providers. The debate has not kept up with developments, which move very quickly. That is why we suggest that there should be additional statutory powers rather than a reliance on the current fairly weak framework."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 605134,
      "EditedText": "I would like to answer the question on whether registered social landlords are equipped to deal with homelessness. I do not think that local authorities are, at the moment. They provide a service in assessing homeless people which, as we have already said, should remain with them. However, the service is inconsistent across the country. Local authorities do not all follow the code of guidance on homelessness legislation. A lot of homeless people—families as well as single people—need support, and that support is not in place. Suitable housing for homeless people is not available in Scotland.When transfer happens, we want to ensure that homeless people's rights are not reduced. However, I would not say that local authorities are doing an especially good job of housing homeless people. That may be because of a lack of resources, or because of council policies or practices. We are not saying that local authorities are doing a wonderful job that we want to continue with registered social landlords. We would not have a record 45,000 applications in Scotland if they were doing a good job, or were sufficiently resourced to do that job.We should not ignore the fact that there is a homelessness crisis. That crisis will not be resolved by new housing partnerships. People's rights must not be reduced. We hope that they will be increased by new housing partnerships, but there is a lot of work to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 605138,
      "EditedText": "Research published by the Scottish Office in 1994 pointed out some of the diversity. For example, the extent to which local authorities accept that young people have a priority need varies a lot. However, 1994 is quite a while ago and was before reorganisation, so we cannot say that the research reflects current policy. Other areas of diversity include the factors to consider with someone who is intentionally homeless. There is some variation in almost every area. The issue of young people, which is as important today as it was in the early 1990s, stands out. However, we do not have anything more recent than the 1994 research."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 605139,
      "EditedText": "That was a slight diversion from the questions that I had intended to ask. Shelter has been questioned about the rural aspect of the right to buy. What is the position in Glasgow, where, because there are more houses, the statistics should be closer to the figures on which the Scottish Executive is relying? Are your concerns about the right to buy in rural areas the same as your fears about the right to buy in the new single social tenancy scheme in urban areas?On the same point, do you intend to carry out any research to try to construct an alternative model and can you supply the committee with that information in due course?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 605140,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure whether I can provide such a sophisticated model; perhaps I can give the committee a critique of the Executive's projections instead.I did not mean to imply that right to buy is an issue only in rural areas. However, that is where housing shortages have been most acute. In areas such as Glasgow, where the debate is very much about strengthening and empowering communities, there is a 20-year-old national policy that is hostile to the idea of community empowerment—it has very specific and inflexible rules about selling houses and it gives no discretion to the local authority or other community representatives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 605142,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Although local authorities own temporary accommodation and permanent housing, there is an incentive to move people out of temporary accommodation because it is more expensive. If registered social landlords have only permanent housing, there is less of an incentive for them to allocate such housing quickly.With the housing partnership steering group, we have been investigating circumstances in which a registered social landlord can refuse to allocate housing. They cannot make such a refusal if someone has a right to housing; however, there might be some flexibility over where and when such allocations are made, as housing might not be available.The issue comes down to good monitoring by local authorities and by the registered social landlords to find out whether people are staying in temporary accommodation and what dispute resolution process is in place to ensure that people are being allocated housing quickly when stock becomes available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 605145,
      "EditedText": "Convener, I wonder whether that paper can be made available to the committee. I think that it might be quite useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C605149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 605149,
      "EditedText": "I have a very small supplementary question, Liz. I cannot see how moving from 95,000 properties, 5,000 of which are empty because they are unsuitable, to 75,000 will improve the provision for homeless people. That is why I am worried about the stock transfer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 605150,
      "EditedText": "Other reasons apart from a shortage of housing are responsible for homelessness in Glasgow. Most people in Glasgow who are assessed as homeless will be allocated a house. However, it is the condition and location of houses and other problems that stem from poverty that give rise to repeated homelessness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 605151,
      "EditedText": "Glasgow's problems have been recognised by the homelessness task force. However, let us hope that the task force is robust enough to say that the Glasgow stock transfer plans are inconsistent with the assessment of the city's homelessness problem. We are debating stock transfers at a Scottish level and perhaps not fully recognising the fact that there will be huge diversity between Glasgow and Dumfries and Galloway or Shetland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C605157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 605157,
      "EditedText": "Coming in at this stage means that many of the questions that I wanted to ask have already been answered, which is good. On the general issue of stock transfers, you stated in your written submission that housing stock transfers present the opportunity to improve services for homeless people and not just to protect those services. I know that Shelter is committed to ensuring that the voice of homeless people is heard in influencing and shaping the formulation of policy. In reaching your view, did you consult homeless people? If so, how did you do that?My second question concerns arbitration, so thank you for explaining that in more detail. Who would Shelter prefer to be responsible as the final arbitrator?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 605158,
      "EditedText": "At this point, we have not consulted homeless people. However, one of the proposals that we put to the homelessness task force was that homeless people should be consulted on all areas of its work, such as the consideration of new legislation, good practice and so on. To be honest, we are a small charity and consultation costs a lot of money. In England, we have run focus groups with homeless people to consider changes in legislation, but that cost a lot. We do not have the funds in Scotland. I hope that the Executive will pick up on that and will consult homeless people on those areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 605159,
      "EditedText": "On the question of who should have the ultimate say, if local authorities retain the legal responsibility for homelessness, they should have the final word on what happens. It is important that arbitrations are negotiated through the individual landlords. That is a role for the national regulator, whether it is Scottish Homes or another organisation. Individuals should be able to appeal directly to the local authority. If local authorities are legally responsible for homelessness, they must have the final say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C605160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 605160,
      "EditedText": "I have two questions, but I will ask only one because we are running over time and I am an intruder. Are you saying that the way forward is not to deny the right to buy to housing association tenants, which would be inconsistent with a single social tenancy, but to reform it for all tenants? If that is what you are saying, what changes would be necessary to the right to buy in the interests of homeless people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 605162,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We will now move on, but the witnesses are welcome to stay. We try to pull everything together at the end of the session and to make recommendations for specific pieces of work that we may ask for from the witnesses. Thank you. The discussion was extremely interesting and stimulating. It certainly helped me to understand some of the issues that have been flagged up. I am sure that the committee will be interested in pursuing some of them and we look forward to a continuing dialogue with Shelter. I welcome Robert Aldridge and Chris Campbell from the Scottish Council for Single Homeless. You will have got a flavour of where we are in our discussions and will probably have guessed a number of the questions that we will ask you. We have great respect for the work of the Scottish Council for Single Homeless. A number of us have been involved with you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 605165,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. I did not give you the chance to make a two-minute presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 605170,
      "EditedText": "Not to hand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 605176,
      "EditedText": "Does not that come back to the point Tommy Sheridan made: that until now stock transfers have been small and have taken place within the existing housing benefit regime? What we are talking about here is, first, a massive stock transfer in Glasgow, with heavy involvement from the private financial sector, which has to make a substantial return to make the investment in the first place and, secondly, a housing benefit reform the details of which we do not yet know. I find it amazing that groups representing the homeless are so enthusiastic about stock transfers when they do not know the answers to questions about housing benefit reform."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 605177,
      "EditedText": "I think that enthusiastic is not the right word. Stock transfers are on the agenda and are happening. As charities, we are ever the pragmatists and have to deal with the situation as it is. We know that stock transfers are happening and we are trying to ensure that the best possible deal for homeless people is available under the stock transfer regime."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 605184,
      "EditedText": "You said that local authorities should retain the homelessness service. In Dundee, for example, there is a homelessness unit in a network of flats across the city, which is funded from the housing revenue account. If the houses are transferred, there will be no housing revenue account. Would keeping the bare framework of a homelessness unit and a number of temporary flats provide sufficient revenue through rents and housing benefit to fund the homelessness service? I doubt that very much. Where would the funding come from for local authorities to retain that service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 605186,
      "EditedText": "In Dundee, Glasgow and West Dunbartonshire, there are real problems with the council tax—structural problems that leave Dundee always having high council tax. Adding to that would be greatly resented. Should there not be some kind of central funding? Should not grants be made available to local authorities to provide this service, rather than it being made the responsibility of local council tax payers? The areas with the worst homelessness are those with the highest council taxes and the lowest income."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 605187,
      "EditedText": "In the past, housing support grant took some account of the amount that was spent on homelessness—it still includes a portion for hostels, although it is very small at the moment. We would welcome any central funding of the homelessness service to assist local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 605188,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned that a number of housing associations are not playing their part in providing houses for homeless people. Scottish Homes is meant to be monitoring housing associations. Are services to homeless people one of the criteria that it uses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Campbell (Scottish Council for Single Homeless): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 605189,
      "EditedText": "Scottish Homes has recently sent out a letter to ascertain local authorities' views on the service they are getting from individual housing associations when taking homeless people through the nomination route. I am not sure how much information it has received from that, but information that is received in future will be interesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 605191,
      "EditedText": "I have the benefit of having recently joined SCSH after 10 years' service with Scottish Homes—albeit not in regulation supervision—and I believe that the answer is, \"Not a lot.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 605192,
      "EditedText": "In its paper about the right to buy, the Government says that there will be 850 right-to-buy sales every year. Conveniently, that happens to be a figure that does not affect the overall financial viability of housing associations. Do you think that that is wishful thinking, or is it based on hard evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 605193,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is interesting. I would like to ask whether the Scottish Executive, when coming up with the estimate of 850, has examined the hard evidence that would be available through Scottish Homes on the effect of the Scottish Homes stock transfer programme over the past few years. If it did that, the Executive might find that it has pitched its estimate rather low."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 605194,
      "EditedText": "The Executive claims to have arrived at the figure through consultation with Scottish Homes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 605197,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should get Scottish Homes back here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 605198,
      "EditedText": "John McAllion can be relied on to ask the questions relating to hard evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 605199,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to the procedures used by housing associations. They vary between different associations but, as I understand it, there is frequently a 50:50 nomination arrangement. For example, the first house to come up might be allocated by the housing association under its rules, and the next might be made available to the council under its rules. It is difficult to see why that should produce the figures that you have identified here. Can you shed any more light on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 605200,
      "EditedText": "What you have described happens in some cases, but not in all. There are very different nomination arrangements between individual associations and local authorities. It is a two-way process and some local authorities use their nomination arrangements for purposes other than housing homeless people. The picture is very variable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 605206,
      "EditedText": "One of the things that we will examine in our research is the situation of nominations in England, which appears to be much better than in Scotland. One factor—I do not know whether it is the determining factor—is that local authorities have control of a social housing grant, which is essentially the local funding of housing associations or social landlords. Local authorities disburse the funding. I do not know whether it is that element of a financial incentive to make things work that assists, but we shall consider that option in our research.There are procedures that must be built up locally, between local authorities and the new landlords. When they draw up their contracts and so on, that must be done, but within a legal framework. As Liz Nicholson and Gavin Corbett said, we need a basic statutory framework within which everybody will work, so that people will not be denied access to a housing list or a housing association for arbitrary or unacceptable reasons. We have provided an example of measures that might be introduced, such as a credit check on a prospective tenant or a check on whether a prospective tenant has a connection with that particular community. If that were implemented, it would further marginalise people who are socially excluded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 605208,
      "EditedText": "If I forget some of the latter points, please remind me of them.We would echo what the Shelter representatives said in their evidence, on the deregulation and contracting-out legislation. It is important that the homelessness service remains with the local authority, so that it is clear that an applicant who is aggrieved will be able to make their appeal to the local authority about a homelessness service decision. It is a matter of clarity and transparency. We also believe that, as the local authority is the strategic authority that must have an overview of all housing matters in its area, including homelessness, it is appropriate for that function to continue to lie with the local authority. If we introduced the contracting-out legislation, it would simply confuse applicants and obscure where the clear strategic responsibility for homelessness lies.I shall now refer to partial transfers, and shall return to nominations later. Most of the discussion, as well as concerning financial implications and the mechanisms for stock transfer, has related to authorities that are planning to transfer all their housing stock. Far more complicated arguments will emerge when there is a partial transfer. If local authorities are left with residual housing, which nobody is willing to take from them, as well as the responsibility to house homeless people, and there is not a very clear legal commitment from the other landlords in the area to accept homeless people, there will be a danger of increasing the concentration of people who have multiple problems in the residual housing stock. That issue must be teased out and taken into account when there is partial transfer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 605213,
      "EditedText": "Those are important questions. Both the Scottish Council for Single Homeless and Shelter are here because we believe that, unless some of the matters that we are bringing to the committee's attention, such as the safeguards, are addressed in the housing bill, there is a danger that the situation could get much worse for homeless people. We have concentrated our evidence on trying to ensure that that does not happen. The worst-case scenario for homeless people and for those who do not have a connection with a particular community would be if the legislation was not amended and did not impose a duty on registered social landlords to co-operate in assisting local authorities with their homelessness duty. That might allow social landlords to refuse nominations and referrals for a range of reasons or to exclude people from a housing list because of poor credit references and so on. We are here to say that we are extremely concerned about the bill—the homelessness issues must be dealt with as part of the stock transfer process, and there is an urgent need to put in place the statutory framework. We have considerable concerns about the extension of the right to buy to all tenants of housing associations, although tenants of charitable housing associations will be excluded. No one has a problem with continuing the preserved right to buy for tenants who had a right to buy and who are transferring to a new landlord from a local authority landlord. However, should new tenants of the new landlord have a right to buy? Should existing tenants of existing housing associations have the right to buy extended to them? We were particularly concerned about the suggestion in the Executive's paper on housing and anti-social behaviour, which was released yesterday, that Scottish Homes investment should be directed at replacing stock lost through the right to buy, rather than enhancing the social rented stock, which that investment would have been used for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 605221,
      "EditedText": "The effect will vary from area to area. Particular reference has been made to rural areas, but it will affect communities in many areas. The Scottish Executive takes a broad-brush approach in its figures, but if the right to buy is extended, virtually all the rented housing stock might disappear in certain communities. The sale of four houses might make the difference between a sustainable community and an unsustainable one. Housing associations have invested in a number of rural areas because of a shortage of affordable rented housing, to make those communities sustainable. It would seem strange to permit that stock to be sold off and new houses to be built—that seems to be doing things the wrong way round."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 605230,
      "EditedText": "Maybe that is for another time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C605233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 605233,
      "EditedText": "I wish to follow up on an answer that you gave to a question by John McAllion about the housing revenue account and the situation in Dundee, where the provision for temporary accommodation for the homeless comes from the revenue account. I know that that is not the practice in all local authority areas. What is the most common way of operating? Does the rent payer or the taxpayer shoulder the burden?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C605236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 605236,
      "EditedText": "My authority recognised years ago that that burden should not be borne by the rent payer, but by the general taxpayer, and we were able to make that change. I campaigned for it quite strongly at the time. Perhaps we could take a closer interest in that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 605238,
      "EditedText": "We concur with Shelter witnesses that, ultimately, there must be some means of enforcement. We do not expect things to go wrong, but there has to be some safety measure. I agree that we need to amend section 38 of the Housing (Scotland) Act 1987, but we need to have some other form of regulatory measure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 605240,
      "EditedText": "That raises housing management issues such as the need for training. In a previous paper we talked not only about the homelessness function, but about housing management procedures that need to be adopted by registered social landlords. I hope that the matter of difficult tenants will be monitored carefully by Scottish Homes in its regulatory capacity. It is important that we do not have evictions and homelessness on a massive scale, and that we do not create a new revolving door."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 605245,
      "EditedText": "Would we need committee time to explore that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C605246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 605246,
      "EditedText": "I think so. We might want to get the minister to tell us what the plans are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 605248,
      "EditedText": "We can ask the minister about a lot of specific issues. Today's discussion has helped us understand the issue of housing stock transfer. We have a greater depth of understanding now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C605253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 605253,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned that there is a teed-up question that will allow the Executive to make a public statement. I am deeply concerned that that question comes from a member of this committee. I want to know whether Ms Whitefield had prior knowledge of what the statement was going to be or whether the question came to her in a blinding flash of inspiration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 605254,
      "EditedText": "With respect, that is not a matter for this committee. If you want to pursue your inquiry, there are other channels through which you can do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 605259,
      "EditedText": "I refer you to the clerk for that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 605260,
      "EditedText": "All the evidence that we have heard has stressed the importance of housing benefit reform. I know that I keep going on about that, but it is crucial to stock transfers. Jeff Rooker, Minister of State at the Department of Social Security, made a statement yesterday that seemed to suggest that housing benefit reform would be timetabled well into next year, if indeed it takes place this side of the next general election.It was clear from Robert Aldridge's evidence that reform is predicated on a housing benefit regime that can cater for the consequences of stock transfer. I would like Martin Verity, on behalf of the committee, to write to Alistair Darling asking when housing benefit reform proposals can be expected. We cannot reach a conclusion on stock transfer without knowing what the timetable and the substance of housing benefit reform will be.We met members of the House of Commons Select Committee on Social Security last night. The members with whom I was talking, all of whom were new Labour—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 605264,
      "EditedText": "Unless we are talking at cross-purposes, which we might be, we had more information from Scottish Homes yesterday. I have circulated it to members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 605278,
      "EditedText": "John McAllion raised the issue of central funding for the homeless service. I need more clarification about that. We have noted those issues and, as I said, we will pursue them.As Alex Neil suggested, we should start by writing to Alistair Darling and at least ask about the time scale for housing benefit reform. We will start with that, as Alex suggested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 605280,
      "EditedText": "We are showing our colours now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 605283,
      "EditedText": "It is proper to seek clarification as the issue is so important for us.The role of finance has come up in every evidence session. We must explore that in greater depth as it will be a major factor in our discussions. John McAllion is pursuing that—is that on our agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C605288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 605288,
      "EditedText": "I never miss an opportunity. The fact is that we have a couple of visitors from Romania today—Zinca and Diane—who have come to have a look at the committee. Our stay will be brief. Thank you for your welcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 605289,
      "EditedText": "Zinca and Diane are welcome to Scotland and to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C605292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
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      "ID": 18317,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 605292,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 605294,
      "EditedText": "The line that I took when negotiating with the conveners group was that many local authority people would visit the Local Government Committee. However, having read that committee's minutes, it seems that it has heard evidence only from Glasgow City Council, so it might be interesting for us to hear from West Dunbartonshire Council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 605298,
      "EditedText": "We must stick to the timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18317,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 605300,
      "EditedText": "None of what is being suggested will delay matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 605303,
      "EditedText": "We can hardly invite loan sharks to give evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 605304,
      "EditedText": "Have you got contacts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 605305,
      "EditedText": "I doubt there is any official research that can tell us about the extent of loan sharking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 605306,
      "EditedText": "Let us consider that. West Dunbartonshire Council and Scottish Provident might be able to give us written evidence. We need to check how detailed the Credit Services Association submission is. We will definitely meet the deadline."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 605308,
      "EditedText": "You had left the meeting when we discussed the matter. We agreed that we would hear evidence from the civil servants for a start and, if we thought that there were further issues to be raised, we would reconsider talking to a minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 605311,
      "EditedText": "I am not changing the decision, but if we are going to get the report in on time, we cannot wait until January to invite a minister to come and give evidence. If we are going to invite a minister, we have to do it now—this is the last meeting before Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 605318,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I would like you to write to Alistair Darling on behalf of the committee to ask if the written submission and the oral evidence from the DSS reflect his political judgment on the matter. Is he opposed to the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 605319,
      "EditedText": "Let us find out what the evidence is. I want to pursue our line of questioning and to hear what the DSS has to say. If we still feel that there are issues to be addressed when we have concluded our questioning, there will be opportunities for the committee to pursue those issues. I am getting frustrated because every time an issue is raised we want UK ministers to come before the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 605325,
      "EditedText": "We took a decision at the last committee meeting—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 605326,
      "EditedText": "That is not contradictory."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 605327,
      "EditedText": "We took a decision that we would hear the DSS evidence, and follow that up appropriately. Can we stick with that, please?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 605328,
      "EditedText": "DSS officials will not come up here and say that something is not Government policy. They are officials speaking on behalf of the Government. Whatever they say is Alistair Darling's policy. That is the reality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18318,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 605331,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to the voluntary sector report, which we have a paper on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 503.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 605339,
      "EditedText": "In the early days, John McAllion kept us up to date when we were looking at other issues. It would be useful if you gave us a regular briefing on the programme of work. It might be useful if you spoke to Robert Brown and others to get detailed input between committee meetings.We will now move on to discuss our timetable of future business. Are we agreed that the official report is not required for this part of the meeting?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 605086,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at  10:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 605087,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I welcome Malcolm Chisholm and Tommy Sheridan to the committee. Both take an interest in our proceedings and will be familiar with the way that we do business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson (Shelter Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 605089,
      "EditedText": "I am the director of Shelter and with me is Gavin Corbett, a senior researcher.Members of the committee will have received a copy of Shelter's written evidence. Despite the occasional press reports to the contrary, Shelter supports an increased role for independent landlords, provided that they have genuine community interests and that vulnerable homeless people are safeguarded and can have access to housing. We do not oppose stock transfer per se.Homelessness might rise or fall as a result of aspects of stock transfer. We have been worried about the impact on rents of poverty and the reshaping of housing benefit. The UK Government seems to be shying away from making radical changes to housing benefit and I am pleased that the Executive has signalled its intention to move towards single social tenancy.Much of the work that Shelter has done in the past 18 months has been on the detail of how the homelessness service will work after stock transfer. In particular, we have argued for councils to have a last resort power. They should be able to take over the responsibility for allocation of homes if a new landlord is not performing well. Eighteen months ago we asked what would happen if councils were to retain the legal duty to house homeless people, but had no houses. The Executive met that question with indifference but I am pleased to say that Shelter's views have since been listened to. The proposals in our evidence have been discussed with the Executive and I believe that we are almost at the point of getting a form of protection built in to next year's housing bill. I recognise the value of the committee's work in examining the detail of stock transfer as a way of informing the Executive's plans and I look forward to members' observations and questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 605096,
      "EditedText": "Do you believe, however, that the steering group is receptive, and that it is beginning to make progress?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 605098,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Will you address the principle of housing stock transfer and tell us why, in your view, diversity helps us? You are not against stock transfer in principle. What is your experience of housing associations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 605099,
      "EditedText": "We took a pragmatic approach to new housing partnerships when they were announced. We considered the conditions in council housing in which some of the people who come through our housing aid centres were living. We do not see a change in public sector borrowing requirement rules on the horizon. As a homelessness charity, we must consider improving homes and making things better for homeless people. As long as rents are affordable and the condition of housing is improved, and if people are secure in that housing and homeless people have access to houses, we will not oppose the stock transfer in principle. We are concerned that something better for homeless people should come out of stock transfers—that is what we want.Our experience of housing associations is one of the reasons why we want the last resort power to take over allocations if a registered social landlord is not allocating housing to homeless people. That is not a general statement. There has been a reduction in the number of statutory homeless people who are housed by housing associations. If registered social landlords are to take on the role of local authorities in housing homeless people, we must ensure that there is no way that a community could exclude a homeless person. That homeless person's right to housing—when the person has been assessed as homeless by the local authority—must remain intact, and the registered social landlord must allocate accommodation to that homeless person. That is crucial. There could be an unravelling of the rights of homeless people if no measures were in place during stock transfer to safeguard their rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 605100,
      "EditedText": "I will ask a final question, before I open up the debate. I want to develop the point about housing associations providing more than just housing and trying to meet social needs. I have more experience of disability, and I know that some housing associations have developed progressive models of housing for disabled people. Some have implemented interesting community development strategies. We must consider that issue in terms of homeless people as well. It is not only housing provision that is needed, but a package of social provision. Do you think that there will be an opportunity in the community housing sector to try to address those social needs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett (Shelter Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 605104,
      "EditedText": "Let me say something about the right to buy. As part of a package, there will be built-in secure tenancies in the future. That measure is important, as it will remove, for example, some of the grounds for eviction that housing associations have that councils do not have. The Executive claims that the right to buy will have a minimal impact. We do not accept that, nor do we accept the Executive's analysis. Glasgow has been mentioned, but the point is particularly relevant to rural areas. We want the Executive, in its discussion paper, to be much more flexible about the right to buy. There is a strong case for considering the right to buy across the board, not only in housing associations, as there is concern over the supply of affordable housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 605105,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add an observation on statutory responsibility and whether that should be imposed on registered social landlords. We want that responsibility to remain with the local authority. The local authority has responsibilities under the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 and under community care legislation. We have discussed the matter internally, and we believe that the statutory responsibility for the homelessness service should remain with the local authority. The local authority should make the assessment and in that way, any community care needs or responsibilities under the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 should be picked up as well.Once a person is assessed as homeless, the registered social landlord should bear the responsibility of housing them. The legislation that exists would have to be strengthened, but the statutory responsibility for homelessness should not pass to the registered social landlord; it should remain with the local authority. However, if a registered social landlord does not pick up those allocations to homeless people, there should be statutory protection for homeless people under the last resort power that we have talked about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 605109,
      "EditedText": "The announcement about that development was a red herring. It seems strange to say that, as we expect houses to be lost, we are putting in place measures to increase the supply of houses. Why not consider the housing stock that has been lost in the first place? The development programme announcement, although I have not looked at it in detail yet, does not seem to propose much of an increase on what is already there.Sometimes houses cannot be replaced. Some villages have only so much space for housing development; there is only so much capacity for the water infrastructure and so on. There is a strong case to say that villages have had their diversity of housing stock reduced because of the right to buy, and that it should go no further. The Executive needs to consider that as well as simply trying to offset it through its development programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 605110,
      "EditedText": "Some local authorities in England and Wales have contracted out their homelessness services. Would you like that to be outlawed in the forthcoming housing bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 605113,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we can ignore the fact that, since 1980, we have lost so much housing stock. A line on a graph showing the level of homelessness would go up as that of stock declined. There are many reasons why people become homeless, but addressing the shortage of decent affordable housing has to be our No 1 priority.We have not had a chance to consider the right to buy in any detail, as we only got the paper on that late yesterday. If we consider the measures that are being put in place, I think that the right to buy will have a drastic effect on homelessness unless there is more flexibility, for the reasons that Gavin Corbett mentioned. Gavin may want to comment on the right to buy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C605120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 605120,
      "EditedText": "I want to press you on the subject of the right to buy and the announcement that was made yesterday. Your assessment is very different from that of the Minister for Communities, and I have heard her argue the point in some detail.She would claim that the predictions of the number of houses that will be sold are very reliable. I would like to hear you rebut that in detail. The figures of 850 houses sold and 18,000 houses to be built suggest that one house will be sold and 10 will replace that one. I accept that there is a serious under-provision of socially rented housing in rural areas in particular—the region that I represent is largely composed of rural areas—but the minister would say that the plans developed with local authorities for making land available in the right places will not increase but reduce problems in rural areas, and will tackle the under-provision there for the first time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 605121,
      "EditedText": "One of the problems is that we have not been able to see the detailed figures that the Executive produces. We have heard a verbal presentation of them. I believe that the Minister for Communities said that the right to buy had not been as much of a problem in rural areas as had been claimed by Shelter, which showed that it was more serious in rural areas than in urban areas.The figures in the Executive's analysis include new town development corporation and Scottish Homes sales figures, which makes urban right-to-buy sales figures look a lot higher than would otherwise be the case—I realise that that is quite a complicated point. The definition of rural areas is another detailed matter. When a definition that includes towns such as Kilmarnock, Perth and Inverness is used, that will produce very broad-brush comparisons. That definition has been used—it is the one that COSLA used—because of the size of local authorities post-reorganisation. The picture produced is unreliable.The housing associations have been asked by the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations to speak about their experience of what the right to buy would mean for their areas. One prediction that the Executive made was of about two sales in the Western Isles. If we were to approach members of the housing associations in the Western Isles and ask them if sales would be affected if they extend the right to buy to their properties, they would laugh.Not enough account is taken of the experience that has been gained, and somebody sitting in an office in Edinburgh—to be crude about it—has based their assessment on a deterministic national model, which I do not think is reliable. It would be useful to see the detailed figures. Rather than forming the basis for policy, the crude modelling that has been presented should not have any more status than one estimate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C605122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 605122,
      "EditedText": "Do you have a system for monitoring what is happening? You are talking about averages and broad estimates made somewhere in Edinburgh. Your organisation obviously keeps closely in touch with rural housing associations, but do you monitor what is happening?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 605125,
      "EditedText": "We do. We saw stock transfers as a way of improving the circumstances of homeless people, and improving the houses to which they are allocated. We thought that if requirements on the four conditions—affordability, condition of the house, security and access—were met, the lives of homeless people could be improved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 605135,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask about the code of guidance. You suggested that local authorities did not follow the code in a number of respects. Have you done some research into that, and can you provide us—although perhaps not at the moment—with some more detail?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 605136,
      "EditedText": "I cannot provide detail at the moment, but we have housing aid centres across Scotland and we spend a lot of our time challenging housing association decisions because they do not follow the code of guidance. If local authorities adopted the code as policy, we would see a major improvement in homelessness. Some local authorities have done so, and some have not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 605137,
      "EditedText": "Has any research indicated which local authorities are falling short, and in which respects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 605141,
      "EditedText": "Do you share the concerns expressed in the submission from the Scottish Council for Single Homeless that, if we get the balance wrong on this, people may be stuck in temporary accommodation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 605143,
      "EditedText": "Do you agree that the central issue is about the procedures of both the council and the landlords?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 605144,
      "EditedText": "A paper on temporary accommodation that we submitted to the housing partnership steering group and the homelessness task force argues that the responsibility for temporary accommodation should remain with the local authority. However, that is part of the overall contract between the RSL and the local authority about how allocations are made and how the legislation can be strengthened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 605148,
      "EditedText": "I will return to my point about how we decided to approach this issue. Our housing aid centre in Glasgow is always dealing with people who have presented themselves as homeless and are allocated a house by the local authority, but who leave the property after a few weeks because, for example, it is in a poor state of repair. One of the major problems in Glasgow is the condition of some of its housing stock. I would question whether the 20,000 properties to which you refer are suitable for housing for homeless people. If this stock transfer will help to house homeless people in Glasgow in better housing, a homelessness charity cannot say that people should wait in poor housing that is causing health problems because it objects to the principle of stock transfer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C605152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 605152,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your paper and for your evidence so far—the questions have been answered in depth. On the agreements between housing associations and local authorities, the evidence here is that allocations are not working. There are agreements, but the housing associations are not allocating as many houses to homeless families as they should be. Your paper suggests the development of common housing registers. Is there any indication, where they are operating, that they encourage the housing association to allocate more houses to homeless families?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Nicholson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 605153,
      "EditedText": "Common housing registers have not been developed in Scotland to the extent that they have been down south. The point about a common housing register is that, where there are a number of different landlords in an area, people can make just one application for housing. We should have such registers to simplify applications for housing in a complex market. However, a more general housing allocation policy for all social landlords, in which homeless people had priority for housing, and an amendment to the Housing (Scotland) Act 1987 to that effect would help homeless people more."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 605154,
      "EditedText": "The common housing register sometimes seems like a technical arrangement to make life a bit easier for housing managers. There is nothing wrong with that, but before we even take a step forward we should stop the practice of excluding people from housing registers. If there is one register, everyone must be allowed access to it. That should be an essential precondition of common housing registers. Currently, many people are excluded. An allocation policy should provide the same starting point for housing associations and local authorities, which will increasingly house the same kind of tenants. In our evidence and in that of the Scottish Council for Single Homeless, there are elements of the statutory framework for local authorities under the Housing (Scotland) Act 1987. That should be extended to all landlords. I am not saying that the allocation policies should be the same, but there should be a similar starting point on which landlords can build to meet the needs of their area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 605161,
      "EditedText": "I am in the fortunate position that, about three weeks ago, the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountability asked me to do a talk today on the right to buy, which makes the question topical. The right to buy would be less of a problem if it were not so inflexible. We have put forward a range of proposals to the Executive that would make the right to buy the servant of housing policy rather than its driver. That would include consideration of discounts—why are discounts set at 60 or 70 per cent across the whole country, with no variation? It would also include consideration of the clawback period. If someone receives a subsidy from Scottish Homes—a rural home ownership grant—they have to pay the money back if they sell their home within 10 years. However, with the right to buy, the money has to be paid back if the house is sold within three years. Why are there such inconsistencies?The proposals include consideration of the situation in rural areas, where there are constraints on the capacity of villages to build replacement housing. At this stage, the diversity of such communities is undermined if there are further sales. We have to draw up criteria for those things. We are trying to put forward a range of options to include recognition of the legitimacy of public policy, meeting people's aspirations to become home owners without compromising the wider interests of the community and making the right to buy more flexible. Whether it would still be called the right to buy in that context is questionable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 605163,
      "EditedText": "You state in your paper: \"Stock transfers offer an opportunity not only to protect the interests of homeless people and those currently excluded, but also the chance to improve their position.\"Can we explore that? Will you also tell us a bit more about the research in which you are involved? I appreciate that it has not yet been concluded, but an insight into it would be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 605167,
      "EditedText": "What is your experience of housing associations? How have they responded to the needs of homeless people? Mike Watson asked earlier whether they are up to the change. What is your view? What is your experience of local authorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 605169,
      "EditedText": "Do you have examples of good practice as well as of bad practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 605172,
      "EditedText": "The research includes examples of good practice. In relation to the housing of statutory homeless people, housing associations have been set up to house specific groups of people. If a housing association has been set up to house single people, it will not be able to accept referrals from, for example, homeless families. There is a lot of information behind the statistics that needs to be examined in more detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 605174,
      "EditedText": "I am a bit surprised by both your and Shelter's enthusiasm for stock transfers. According to the evidence that we have had so far, the financial success of stock transfer depends heavily on the income stream, which boils down to two things—relatively high rents and security of income, including housing benefit income. We know that there is a close link between homelessness and poverty. Are you sure, therefore, that when stock transfers take place there will be enough houses at the right rental level to accommodate the poor people who are homeless?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 605181,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure exactly to whom you are referring as disruptive. People who are homeless cover a broad spectrum. They are individuals with a broad spectrum of needs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C605182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 605182,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. That is why I referred to some elements."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C605183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 605183,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, any community with social rented housing—primarily local authority housing—has a duty to accept people who have been homeless. There is no evidence that people who have been homeless are any more or less disruptive to a community than anybody else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 605185,
      "EditedText": "That requires a legislative change. I believe that it should not be paid for through the housing revenue account. It is an anomaly from previous years that the housing revenue account—essentially, tenants' rents—pays for a service for anybody who becomes homeless. That cost should fall on the entire community rather than just on council tenants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605190",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 605190,
      "EditedText": "So, previously, no one was monitoring this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605195",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 605195,
      "EditedText": "That is a shame."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605196",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 605196,
      "EditedText": "That is another interesting remark, I must say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605203",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 605203,
      "EditedText": "Do you have any suggestions for the committee, about the changes that might be made in the procedures when the new stock transfer arrangements go ahead? What should we encourage, through a code of guidance for housing associations and councils?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2194348+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C605209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 605209,
      "EditedText": "Whether there is partial transfer will depend on the local authority. For example, it is likely that my own local authority in North Lanarkshire will seek to transfer much of its stock, and it is regarded as a good landlord. The residual stock that the local authority may retain will be of a high standard. All of North Lanarkshire's housing stock has central heating and double-glazing. People are pleased to be local authority tenants. For such tenants, in that and other local authority areas, the problem will not exist, as the local authority will not be the sole provider of housing for problematic cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 605210,
      "EditedText": "That is right. I accept that. The main issue is to ensure that each of the landlords that has received transferred stock accepts its share of responsibility for housing homeless people, and that that responsibility is not left with a much smaller element of stock that is retained by the local authority.As Gavin Corbett said, research has been carried out on the nominations procedures. I do not have an instant, magical answer. Although alternate letting ensures that 50 per cent of the lets are to local authority nominees, that system is probably too crude to be effective. I hope that we are moving towards an assessment of individuals' housing needs, and trying to provide the most appropriate accommodation. Although the 50:50 allocation to housing association applicants and local authority nominees is attractive, in that it meets the 50 per cent objective, I am not sure whether it would meet the objective of housing individual applicants in the most suitable way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C605211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 605211,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C605216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 605216,
      "EditedText": "But you say that the code needs to be strengthened and, when you say \"reviewed\", presumably you do not think that it is strong enough. You say that it is \"largely very good\", but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 605217,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I think that it is \"largely very good\". There may be small matters that should be examined in detail, but it is more important that people implement the code of guidance, as Liz Nicholson said. I would prefer people to implement it properly rather than spending a long time strengthening it without it being implemented."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C605218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 605218,
      "EditedText": "Can that be done without giving the code statutory backing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C605220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 605220,
      "EditedText": "Finally, what does the SCSH think that the effect of the right to buy will be on the amount of accommodation available to homeless people if slightly more people than are currently estimated opt to take up their right to buy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 605223,
      "EditedText": "The extension of the right to buy will affect urban areas differently. In Glasgow, there is a crude surplus of housing and it might be less of an issue in those circumstances, but there is a much smaller pool of rented housing in other cities, and there might be bigger effects in those areas. As Gavin Corbett said, the right to buy is a blunt instrument, and because it is a right, it applies everywhere. The most fragile areas are probably most likely to be hit hardest by the right to buy. The policy needs a major review, to ensure that communities are not made unsustainable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Aldridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 605234,
      "EditedText": "I do not have an accurate answer to that. I notice some body language suggesting that Gavin Corbett does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 605239,
      "EditedText": "By and large—this is anecdotal—local authorities house the most difficult tenants, because they have a statutory duty to do so. If that duty is to be transferred to registered social landlords who have no expertise or experience of dealing with difficult tenants, is there not a danger that those landlords will resort to eviction, so that there will be more homeless people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 605243,
      "EditedText": "I will draw this part of the meeting to a close. I formally thank Shelter and the Scottish Council for Single Homeless.We will now move on to a short discussion about issues that have been raised and which we might want to follow up at a later date with our witnesses, who are welcome to stay for the discussion. What issues that are specific to the organisations and related to further investigations do members want to follow up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C605244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 605244,
      "EditedText": "Given that the right-to-buy issue has become more important than it seemed to be a month ago, I think that we should consider that in relation to the single tenancy announcement that was made this week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 605265,
      "EditedText": "Is that the comparative analysis between private and public funding?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 605267,
      "EditedText": "Was that provided by e-mail?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 605268,
      "EditedText": "No. I circulated paper copies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 605269,
      "EditedText": "Well, I do not have a copy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 605270,
      "EditedText": "Is that it there?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 605271,
      "EditedText": "So it is. I shall look at this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 605273,
      "EditedText": "This is the social inclusion committee as well as the housing committee. It strikes me that current housing policy is predicated on perpetuating a rent regime that makes 80 per cent of Glasgow tenants dependent on housing benefit. That social exclusion prevents them from being able to pay their rent, and we should question the policy that keeps rents at such an artificially high level that people cannot afford to pay them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 605274,
      "EditedText": "There are big issues about rent levels."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 605275,
      "EditedText": "They are huge issues and should be considered as part of this whole investigation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 605277,
      "EditedText": "It struck me that a critique of the right to buy is something that Shelter might be able to do for us once it has studied the papers. It would also be useful to find out whether research has been done into the allocation regimes that are used by housing associations. The business of the disappearing allocations—if I can put it that way—is something that we need to know more about. We must establish which of the regimes that are in operation work and which do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C605279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 605279,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is sensible, but I would not expect much to happen. The expression \"bottling it\" might apply to the Government's attitude to housing benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 605281,
      "EditedText": "The key issue is that all the evidence we have had on financing stock transfers shows that we are dependent on the income stream. In turn, the income stream is dependent on the security of income that housing benefit provides. Based on the evidence that we have received from everybody on stock transfers, I suggest that stock transfers are not a financially viable proposition until we know what the housing benefit reforms will be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C605282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 605282,
      "EditedText": "The situation requires clarification. Sensing the vibes, I do not think that there will be significant changes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 605285,
      "EditedText": "John can pick up those issues. We could, perhaps, add one or two people to the evidence sessions in January and February. We are requesting that Wendy Alexander come to the first meeting in February. I intend to take about 15 minutes at a prior meeting to discuss our line of questioning to the minister because we have left so many issues saying, \"We will raise that with the minister.\" I will ask for a paper to be drawn up so that we have an effective line of questioning and can make the best use of the time. We will address so many issues at that meeting that we must ensure that we manage the time properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C605293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 605293,
      "EditedText": "Much of the evidence that we have heard indicates that many poindings are carried out by local authorities in pursuit of rent arrears. We could, perhaps, invite West Dunbartonshire Council to give evidence. It has a policy of not implementing poinding or warrant sales in any circumstances. It gave a presentation yesterday that my assistant attended and I know that John McAllion was also at that Poverty Alliance meeting. I could not go, but my assistant said that she was very impressed with the evidence that was given. It might be useful for the council to come and speak to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C605295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 605295,
      "EditedText": "We would want a copy of the Glasgow submission in order to balance the evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C605297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 605297,
      "EditedText": "Given that Glasgow City Council is the only local authority to have given evidence and if the Local Government Committee has not chosen to invite any others, there is no reason why we should not invite them. There is a spot available on 19 January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 605299,
      "EditedText": "It might be unnecessary to extend this. The Credit Services Association has already given evidence to another committee, so there is no reason for us to talk to Scottish Provident. COSLA has also given evidence to the Local Government Committee. I am anxious to get on with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 605301,
      "EditedText": "There is a danger that the matter could be put off time and again until it falls off the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 605307,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would be a good idea to hear from West Dunbartonshire Council because it has the best collection record in Scotland.We still do not have clarification on who from the Department of Social Security will give evidence. It should be one of the ministers, because if the Department of Social Security opposes the bill, that is a political decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 605309,
      "EditedText": "Will we have time to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 605314,
      "EditedText": "At the last meeting, we decided that this was not necessarily the issue on which we wanted to confront Westminster ministers—there will be other things that we will want Alistair Darling to come and talk about. I suggested that housing benefit might be an issue that we would like to speak about. We should not throw away the opportunity to speak to him. His evidence on this is not necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 605315,
      "EditedText": "We had this discussion at the last meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 605316,
      "EditedText": "Was the decision made not to invite ministers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 605317,
      "EditedText": "You were not here at the last meeting, Alex—we are revisiting the discussion. We took the view that we would not rule out the idea of pursuing ministers for their views on poindings and warrant sales. However, we decided to begin with the officials because, as John McAllion said, there are many issues that we want to discuss with Alistair Darling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 605323,
      "EditedText": "It is my responsibility to run this committee in a managed way. We cannot keep changing decisions. We will stick with the decision that we made previously. Once we have heard the DSS evidence, we will have the opportunity to reflect on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 605324,
      "EditedText": "But my recommendation is that meantime, we write to Alistair Darling to ask him what his position is, as the Secretary of State for Social Security, on this bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 605329,
      "EditedText": "He should be held to account for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C605332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ID": 18318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 605332,
      "EditedText": "I wrote this paper, and I am keen to get committee members' views on it.It is some time since I was appointed the committee's reporter on the voluntary sector. Requests to meet me to discuss issues have come in fast and furious. I have been reluctant to respond to any of them until I had clarification from other members on my role and what they expect me to do.I decided that the best way to take this matter forward was to write a paper, which Martin Verity has circulated to all committee members. I am happy to take on board any suggestions or, if everyone agrees, to work on the basis that I am responsible for liaising with the voluntary sector and for being the first point of contact. I will work in a similar way to John when he reported on housing policy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ID": 18318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 605333,
      "EditedText": "I apologise to Karen for not coming back to her sooner. This is all fine, but we were looking to home in on the voluntary sector issues that might be priorities for the committee. We should find out what the issues are before finding out how to deal with them. A number of matters, such as charity law, need to be taken on board. It is a matter of trying to fit into our agenda a couple of issues that we want to take further. Issues might arise from Karen's discussions with groups or from what we have discussed already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C605336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ID": 18318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 605336,
      "EditedText": "I have not spoken to anyone from the Justice and Home Affairs Committee—I have not taken this work forward because I have no formal agreement from this committee. However, I am happy to speak to members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee.As many people will know, the Executive has commissioned a report from the University of Abertay Dundee, and the professor who is working on it gave a presentation at the recent SCVO conference. I understand that the report will be with the Executive soon, and that the Minister for Communities has overall responsibility for it. The committee should be the lead committee in that matter, but that does not mean that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee would not have some input."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ID": 18318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 523.0,
      "ContributionID": 605340,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in public until 12:33."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2350615+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 605103,
      "EditedText": "There is obviously great concern over the record rising levels of homelessness announced in your report this week. In your evidence you show also that there has been a reduction in the number of nominations for homeless people in housing associations. The convener said that stock transfer would bring diversity, but in some places—in Glasgow, for example—wholesale stock transfer means that there will not be diversity. Either a housing company or housing associations will be the sole providers. How can we reconcile the two problem areas?What impact will this week's announcement of the extension to housing associations of the right to buy have on housing provision, and do your conclusions reinforce the argument that there should be a statutory responsibility rather than a contractual responsibility to house homeless people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.9656621+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 605106,
      "EditedText": "I would like clarification on that. Are you saying that the statutory responsibility for homeless people should remain with the council, although you would like some statutory responsibilities to house homeless people to be imposed on the registered social landlords, as a last resort?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.9656621+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 605320,
      "EditedText": "It is a timing issue. Even if we decide on 12 December that we want to write a letter, that might be too late. It is not unreasonable to write a letter to Alistair Darling now to ask him what his political position is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3359
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ID": 18317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 605322,
      "EditedText": "My experience of Government and Executive ministers is that that might not happen, which is why I am concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Corrie McChord (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 479318,
      "EditedText": "COSLA welcomes and appreciates this opportunity to give evidence at an early stage in the consideration of the bill, which we look forward to helping to shape.Although COSLA's position on the bill is not yet fully formed, we have a long history of involvement with the issues it covers. We fully support the Committee on Standards in Public Life and have addressed that committee's report on standards of conduct in local government. We have also supported the principle of the ethical framework consultation process. However, as yet, we have not collected all the councils' responses to COSLA on this bill, for which the cut-off date is 14 January. We hope to collect those views soon and to formulate a full COSLA response. As a result, our evidence will be a mixture of past policy and recent informal stances on standards in public life.I have spoken to Frank McAveety, the Deputy Minister for Local Government, on the issues and COSLA welcomes his commitment. Through COSLA, councils have an open invitation to participate in the debate on standards in public life in Scotland.The COSLA document \"Ethical Standards in Public Life\" is not about just local government but about public life, in particular the areas that are devolved to the Scottish Parliament. We do not wish to comment substantively on other areas of public life such as public agencies, except to set local government in the context of those agencies and how they might be involved in the process. Although it is difficult to have a one-size-fits-all piece of legislation for local government and every public agency, we hope that, throughout the process, local government will be treated with equity with other public agencies. Perhaps, when the time comes, we might say something about the agencies that were not involved in the initial COSLA document.I have said enough for the moment. As Andy O'Neill has been working closely with issues arising from the Nolan report, perhaps he will take us step by step through COSLA's position in the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 479321,
      "EditedText": "No, I think that Andy O'Neill has comprehensively covered all the points that we wish to make. There is a small aberration in terms of other public bodies, such as local enterprise companies, which are not included. Andy O'Neill mentioned Forth Valley Enterprise, which has been working closely with COSLA and taking advice on standards in local government. That is a voluntary commitment. We should take on board that there is a willingness to do that in some quarters.The other area that Andy O'Neill mentioned was community councils and individuals co-opted on to committees. Quite clearly, although those are non-remunerated positions, COSLA agrees that there should be a strong commitment from community councils and individuals in local areas, based on the subsidiarity principle. However, if they were covered by the bill it would make community councils and individuals recognise that they have not only rights in terms of active citizenship, but responsibilities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 479322,
      "EditedText": "I will open up the discussion to questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 479323,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether COSLA would consider the question of the surcharge. I regard it as unfair that the only sector of public life that is subject to surcharge is councils and councillors. Do you have any views on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy O'Neill (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 479319,
      "EditedText": "COSLA thanks the committee for its invitation to give pre-legislative evidence on the bill. As Corrie stated, our views are at a preliminary stage. We are consulting the member councils on the consultation paper.Our views today are based on our earlier comments on the Scottish Office consultation paper \"A New Ethical Framework for Local Government in Scotland\", together with informal political discussions with senior councillors in COSLA. For the record, COSLA has long supported the need for a review of the ethical framework in public life.We welcome the Nolan committee's findings and recommendations on local government that were produced in July 1997, in which Lord Nolan said that he\"found an enormous number of dedicated and hard working people\"in local government. While he noted that there had been a few, highly publicised cases of wrongdoing, those cases needed to be put\"in the context of more than 20,000 councillors and 2 million council employees in local government.\"In a pertinent comment on local government, Lord Nolan pointed out that:\"Despite the profusion of rules, the lack of clarity over standards of conduct persists.\"COSLA thinks that the Scottish Office consultation paper seeks to remove some of that lack of clarity.COSLA has been involved in the debate for a number of years. It has served on Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions working groups on ethics, and on the Scottish Office working group that produced the new ethical framework document. It has also produced the document \"Ethical Standards in Public Life\". The Scottish Executive document \"Standards in Public Life\" is part of the next stage in the development process of ethics in Scottish civic life, and we welcome it.Our comments will address two areas that we feel require further discussion prior to the bill's introduction into Parliament. First, we will comment on matters of general principle, followed by detailed comments on the proposals as they stand in the consultation paper.The first matter of general principle that we wish to highlight is the fact that we still support the introduction of a general framework of ethical standards in Scottish public life. Annexe C of the consultation paper is a good starting point for discussion. We believe strongly that, at the end of the day, ethics are ethics; to create equity of treatment, the same framework of principles needs to apply across the whole of the public sector—to councillors, MPs, MEPs, MSPs and quango members. The public will not understand why councils are governed by one set of rules, MPs by another, MSPs by another and so on, but we accept that because of the different nature of quangos compared with councils, the individual codes will have to be slightly different.Another point of general principle is the need for self-regulation. We continue to support Lord Nolan's view that local government should be given the lead responsibility for its own ethical standards, with appropriate safeguards by way of external scrutiny and appeal mechanisms, to ensure that action can be taken if internal mechanisms prove insufficient. A balance between internal self-regulation to secure ownership, and external validation to ensure probity and public confidence, is essential. That can be achieved with standards committees in councils for internal regulation, and the standards commission to provide external scrutiny.Councils could establish standards committees to enforce codes of conduct, but at the same time we accept that the public will want—rightly—to be sure that those committees act fairly. That could be achieved in a number of ways, such as the co-option of independent persons to standards committees, which has already happened in Dumfries and Galloway Council.All standards committees that have been established to date have been politically balanced, but not all would necessarily need to be. Powers that allow standards committee members to refer cases to the committee individually, and that allow a call-in procedure to enable the standards commission to call in a case from an individual council if a complainant is dissatisfied with the consideration given to the case, would ensure public confidence. Having said that, if standards committees are not established, we want local government to be given ownership of the standards commission. We can elaborate on that later.I will now turn to a number of details of the consultation paper that we would like to highlight.We support the call for a single code of conduct for all councillors. Initial consideration was given to individual councils establishing their own codes of conduct. We thought that was the wrong way to go since it could mean that, for example, Clackmannanshire and Stirling had two different codes despite being close and the public would not understand that.There are a number of omissions from the scope of the bill. It is about ethics in public life so we would want board members of local enterprise companies to be included. We note the reference in the bill to the Companies Act 1989 but think that\"it should not be impossible for the tendering process by which the LECs obtain their contracts to include in the tender specification a requirement to impose upon their Board members a code of conduct which fitted into the general framework of ethical principles.\"Corrie McChord may want to speak about that later on. We are aware that Forth Valley Enterprise is looking at such a code.The further education college boards should be included in the bill as they are part of public life. Further consideration should be given to expanding the scope of the code to include people serving on committees who are not councillors, such as religious and teacher representatives. There should be discussion on including community councillors and school board members in the scope of the code. Since we are trying to achieve joined-up government, the quangos that are established by reserved matters legislation should be included in the code. We should aim for Westminster colleagues to establish similar codes.We very much support the duty of councils and relevant public bodies to assist members in upholding the code. We note that \"the Standards Commission may issue guidance to councils and relevant public bodies about the discharge of this duty\".If such guidance is issued, the bill should require the commission to consult COSLA and relevant professional bodies such as the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and General Managers and the Society of Local Authority Lawyers and Administrators in Scotland. We also welcome the requirement to establish registers of interest, and again we suggest that if the commission issues guidance on that, it should consult COSLA and relevant professional associations.If the standards commission is to be\"established with sole responsibility for dealing with allegations of breaches of the codes, then local government would wish to ensure that those with relevant experience are appointed to ensure that local government has a sense of ownership of the Commission\".COSLA is concerned\"that whilst elected councillors will be judged by the Commission with no right of appeal, un-elected appointed quango members will not, and a recommendation will be passed to the person who appointed them\".That is usually a minister and they would make the decision on whether the recommendation was actioned. COSLA strongly rejects that proposal. We would want a change to the bill so that if the commission is established, it will judge both councillors and quango members. We also strongly believe that there should be a right of appeal to a sheriff against decisions of the standards commission. We note that judicial review of the process by which the standards commission comes to a decision is possible, but not of the decision itself.Turning to the suggestion in the consultation paper that Scottish Executive staff could be seconded to the commission, we believe that that could lead to a questioning of the impartiality of the commission and that, if established, the commission needs to be seen as independent, with its own staff. We welcome the proposal for a uniform and clear set of sanctions for breaches of the code; that has not existed to date. We accept the need for the sanctions but would like clarification from the Scottish Executive about the circumstances in which the penalties would be imposed. I stress that we strongly support a right of appeal being included in the bill.On the question of interim action, we believe that clarification is necessary about the circumstances in which such interim suspension would be imposed and that the public would perceive anyone suspended on an interim basis to be guilty. We feel that a presumption of innocence should be maintained. If interim suspension were imposed, it would be essential that the grounds for the suspension should be clearly and publicly stated. We hope that such investigations by the commission's chief investigative officer would be so quick that interim suspension would not need to be used.Corrie McChord and I wish to talk about this later, but we want to highlight what we see as potential problems as a result of the imposition of suspension on councillors; that needs to be clarified. Although suspended for up to 12 months or on an interim basis, under the text of the consultation paper, the councillor remains a councillor and will continue to be entitled to consult their constituents and make representations on their behalf. The paper suggests that councillors will only be suspended from taking an active part in council or committee meetings. The councillor will continue to have all the legal rights of a councillor, such as rights of information, use of council facilities and so on. We feel that the suspension will also affect the public perception of the councillor and, importantly, the relationship the councillor has with council officials. There needs to be further discussion on the implications and realities of the interim suspension before it is enacted.As I suggested in the consultation paper, we support the removal of any special responsibility allowance from councillors who are suspended. Further consideration should be given to whether basic allowances should be withdrawn as well. When a councillor is suspended under current legislation, if they do not attend a council meeting for six months without what the council accepts as good reason, they are deemed to have vacated the office of councillor. The bill should recognise that and be changed accordingly.A final point on suspension is that although councillors can be suspended, they can stand for re-election, and indeed be re-elected. In that case, the commission may reimpose the suspension. COSLA is of the view—and is open to discussion on this—that if the concept of interim suspension is accepted, and if there was good reason to impose it in the first place, it should automatically continue, even though the person has been re-elected.Turning to the repeal of section 2A of the Local Government Act 1986, COSLA supports the announcement of the Minister for Communities that the Scottish Cabinet has decided to repeal this legislation, as we agree that it is intrinsically unjust and picks on a particular, uniquely disfavoured part of the community. We would be happy to answer any questions on our statement. In the fullness of time, once we have finalised them, we will supply our comments on the consultation paper to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 479320,
      "EditedText": "Do you wish to add anything to that before we open it up for questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 479325,
      "EditedText": "We oppose surcharging and advocate its abolition. However, we accept that it should continue until a replacement has been devised. The issue was raised in the new ethical framework consultation paper, and that was the policy that we held to. I can give Keith Harding details, if he wishes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 479327,
      "EditedText": "Yes. However, there needs to be a check on collective maladministration and surcharging is the only mechanism that we have to do that at the moment. As Andy O'Neill said, we need to think through carefully what the other options may be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 479330,
      "EditedText": "Is it not illogical that such people should still be councillors and entitled to stand for re-election during the interim period?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 479331,
      "EditedText": "The system creates illogicality. However, a councillor has up to four or five roles. He has responsibilities to his area, his constituency or his ward—I am sorry for using the masculine pronoun, which applies to me. Being a councillor is complex. It is not like being the member of a board, because councillors meet their constituents on a regular basis and are responsible for their actions collectively and individually.As has been pointed out, there are two kinds of remuneration: remuneration for special responsibility and the responsibility allowance that councillors receive for servicing individuals in communities and community councils. That representative role must continue. If a party member were suspended, their party would obviously try to cover the deficit. That would not necessarily happen in areas where the council was independent. Constituency work must go on. However, I believe that, if there is an investigation, the councillor involved should be removed from special responsibility until their name has been cleared."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 479333,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult for an elected member to comment, particularly on the planning example that Donald Gorrie used, because the planning process is open and transparent in local government, as there is no whipping system. That should be considered in relation to the McIntosh commission's view on the whipping system. Until its proposals are implemented, local government is probably most transparent in areas where it is not whipped, such as liquor licensing and regulatory functions over many other areas.Those matters may be open to corruption, like any other area, but I feel safer on those matters than I do on matters of political maladministration, where the whipping system might cover up something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 479336,
      "EditedText": "When a councillor is suspended under the proposed sanctions, is it workable that they could continue part of their duties—the local representation part—while they are suspended? The ethical breach might be in relation to a constituent issue, for example, a gross breach of confidentiality. Would it not be appropriate for the person to be suspended from all duties, after having been found guilty of the breach, for the period of the suspension?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 479339,
      "EditedText": "Andy O' Neill may have a position on that. I could answer as a member. Obviously, there are different situations in different councils. Some council administrations have one party in the majority, some are evenly balanced and some are independent. This is about what fits for a particular council. Where one party has an overwhelming majority, it would be inappropriate—in terms of political balance—for that majority to be reflected in the standards committee. Any imbalance on such a committee could be tempered if people from outside the council were invited to sit on it. External representation could provide a counterbalance to the political make-up of the council. That would probably alleviate difficulties that may arise if the process were considered politically unfair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 479342,
      "EditedText": "In any system where the council has established a standards committee with enforcement powers, individual members of the committee would need to have the power of referral to the commission. If the minority councillors in a council where the overwhelming majority were from one party felt that the process was not being adhered to correctly, they could refer it to the commission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 479343,
      "EditedText": "If you take the politics out of the system by having an equal balance, surely all the political parties can trust it. I am a former Glasgow member—as indeed is Trish Godman—and the reason why the council adopted the model that it did was that we would not have served on any committee in which one political party dominated, as we felt that that may have led to difficulties. I understand COSLA's position, however, as its structure is not the most politically balanced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 479348,
      "EditedText": "I was surprised that the document made no reference to the ombudsman. There could be links between what we are discussing and the ombudsman's role in relation to maladministration by local government and by individuals. Andy O'Neill or Eddie Bain may want to comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eddie Bain: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 479349,
      "EditedText": "There are similarities between the role of the ombudsman and the proposed standards machinery. However, it is easy to envisage types of complaint where there might be a conflict, such as where the ombudsman is investigating a complaint of maladministration that straddles several areas and that is not confined to issues of personal conduct. On the role of standards committees, COSLA feels that there is room for a dual system. We do not play down the difficulties. Breaches of the code can be more or less serious. There are difficulties in assessing immediately—without investigation—whether a breach is serious. We feel that it is possible to build in some kind of call-in or referral system, as well as a right of appeal that would provide duality, while retaining the concept of local ownership, which the Nolan committee favoured for council self-regulation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 479353,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. I just wanted to know what the state of play was."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 479354,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I have a point of clarification and a question. Did you say, Andy, that any right of appeal for a councillor should be before a sheriff? I accept that there is no right of appeal at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 479363,
      "EditedText": "There is another anomalous situation. If a councillor is suspended for more than six months, that councillor is automatically removed from office under the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973. If the sanction of suspension is intended to remove the councillor from office—and I doubt that it is—there is a problem. If councillors are not to be removed from office, the law must be changed to ensure that the suspension straddles an electoral period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 479366,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to establish whether the Executive considers leaving things to the public to decide to be a form of appeal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 479373,
      "EditedText": "Are interim suspensions not a good reason for having political balance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 479375,
      "EditedText": "Does COSLA think that there are any circumstances in which a five-year suspension would be inadequate and in which there should be disqualification rather than suspension?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 479378,
      "EditedText": "Mr Paterson means sine die."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 479382,
      "EditedText": "You have hit the point to which I was coming. Disqualifications might go hand in hand with criminal proceedings. For example, the law might suggest that somebody be put away for seven and a half years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 479387,
      "EditedText": "There is a two-way process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 479389,
      "EditedText": "I thank the witnesses for coming. I appreciate that you have not had replies from every council and that you will probably produce a fuller report. I am pleased that you support the idea of an ethics and standards bill. That is a good message to get across to the public, as, collectively, MSPs receive bad publicity about this issue.We have had an interesting discussion. We look forward to reading your report. As I say to other witnesses, if we need to meet you again, we hope that you will oblige us by returning. Some interesting issues have been thrown up for this committee to consider and to report on to the Executive.Representatives of SOLACE will not be here, as they did not think that they had enough time. I wrote to them to tell them that the committee could have insisted that they appeared but that, on this occasion, I had decided not to use that power—we have never used it before. I told them that I wanted them to come to this committee at the end of January, once stage 1 had been completed.We will have a comfort break until about 11.15 am."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O'Hagan (Society of Local Authority Lawyers and Administrators in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 479393,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has made a folder containing three documents, which we have prepared, available to members. The first document is our preliminary consideration of the Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill and our comments to the committee on it. The other documents in the folder are ones that we have prepared in the past. In chronological order, the second document is a commentary on the Nolan report on local government conduct, which was the society's response to that a couple of years ago. The third document is the society's response to the consultation document, produced by the former Scottish Office, on the new ethical framework for local government.On our preliminary consideration of the bill, which is the most recent document, the first pages comprise an introduction to the society. We were formerly known as SODA—every organisation must have an acronym these days—the Society of Directors of Administration in Scotland. As a consequence of a change in our constitutional arrangements, the membership base has widened. We represent people who are practitioners of local government law, practice and administration.The first page of our paper also mentions the previous consultation papers that the society has prepared and made available, and welcomes the opportunity to comment on the consultation paper and the bill. We will be doing so directly to the Executive and we welcome the opportunity to talk to you today.In the time available, we have had a fairly close look at the bill. The views that are contained in this paper represent for the most part a consensus of views across the society. At this stage the paper is not intended to be exhaustive, but I think that it fairly represents the view of practitioners who are members of the society.In paragraph 2.1, we say that these proposals are warmly to be welcomed. At the moment, what we have in terms of a statutory ethical framework are the provisions outlined in sections 38 to 42 of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973, which required declarations of pecuniary interests by councillors. Under separate legislation, the Local Government and Housing Act 1989, there is provision for a code of conduct governing principally non-pecuniary private or personal interests. There is also a requirement for a register of members' interests under section 19 of the 1989 act.Those different pieces of legislation and mechanisms do not fit together well. They do not readily overlap and there is a differential of treatment when, for instance, the interest of a spouse might be an interest of a councillor. A breach of the pecuniary interests rules is a criminal offence, but there is no sanction available for a breach of the code of conduct, which in many cases might be a more substantial and effective breach of an ethical standard than an accidental omission of a pecuniary interest. For that reason, we very much welcome the idea of a single framework and system.We also welcome the idea outlined in the consultation paper that similar standards should be applied to local government councillors and to the public bodies referred to in the consultation paper. We have noted that the bill makes provision for the Scottish ministers to issue a code for councillors, but to require the public bodies to prepare their own codes. That may be necessary in one or two situations, but we feel strongly that there should be an attempt to prescribe a national code. Scottish ministers have declared that the standards should be universally applicable, and we feel that, as far as is possible and feasible, the code should have a universal application as well. We venture to suggest that, in as much as the code would refer to all elected and appointed persons, consideration might be given to its being applied to MSPs.In paragraph 2.3, we mention that there are certain categories of public body that will not be covered by the code, such as the enterprise trusts and the further education colleges. We are not quite clear why that should be, although there may be reason for it. The explanation given in the consultation paper is that in some cases the form of incorporation under the companies acts or the friendly societies acts may be sufficient to govern the constitutional arrangements. That may well be the case, and it may guard against criminal activity in the form of fraudulent practice, but it is not an obvious explanation of why those bodies should not be governed by an ethical code.The framework set out in the bill envisages a standards commission for Scotland. We very much welcome that. We think that standards must be applied nationally. Nolan proposed that each local authority should prepare its own code, but we feel that that could lead to differential standards. We would welcome a single set of standards and a single prescriptive code.In our earlier consultation paper, we said that local councils could take better ownership of standards in public life if they had a self-policing mechanism. A standards commission also gives rise to the opportunity for an appeals mechanism, but that has not found a place in the bill, and that omission should be examined carefully. If local government has to take ownership of the ethical standards of its councillors, there is a role for a local standards committee. The extent to which that policing might be applicable would be subject to guidance from the commission, because we cannot afford to allow different standards to apply in different parts of Scotland.Paragraph 2.6 of our document states:\"Clause 8 of the Bill makes provision for the Commission to appoint, as one of its employees, a Chief Investigating Officer\".The Scottish Executive's consultation document, which accompanies the bill, declared the intention that that should be amended so that the chief investigating officer would be appointed by Scottish ministers, on the grounds that that is where the funding for staffing may well come from.We think that there is another reason why that amendment is appropriate: the potential for challenges under human rights legislation. If a chief investigating officer is appointed by, draws a salary from and is accountable to the commission, and the commission is to adjudicate on his inquiry, there is merit in the appointment of that chief investigating officer being handled by Scottish ministers. We welcome the Executive's intention to propose that amendment to the bill, which should make it more human rights proof.We have looked at the model for the Accounts Commission for Scotland. Until the new arrangements came into force, there was a controller of audit, who had a separate investigatory and statutory role. In certain circumstances, that person could undertake a hearing and the commission would be guided by its clerk. We think that there is merit in making provision for a separate clerk to the standards commission, who would assist the commission in the adjudication process at a hearing and keep an arm's-length distance from the chief investigating officer.Paragraph 2.7 of our document states:\"Clause 18 of the Bill sets out the options of the Commission following on a finding that a councillor has contravened the Code\".We think that there should be more flexibility in the bill, so that the range of sanctions that can be imposed would range from a simple reprimand to removal from a committee. It may be the member's service on a particular committee that gives rise to the problem that the commission considers at a hearing, so the flexibility to remove someone from certain committees would be useful.We have doubts about the proposal that suspension should be from entitlement to attend meetings, without the status of the councillor being otherwise affected. If a breach of the code has been sufficiently serious to warrant a suspension for a year, it would be difficult—in practice and in public perception—for a suspended councillor to continue to be entitled to represent his constituents at ward level, to have his surgeries arranged by the council, to attend his political group or to be an influential member around the council chambers.The idea that removing the entitlement of members to attend meetings is an effective sanction might well be misconceived. We can envisage situations in which the requirement not to participate in a difficult decision, such as the budget-setting process, might be a welcome relief to a recalcitrant member, who would still be entitled to enjoy the trappings of office and drawing his allowance. We think that that idea should be reconsidered.Paragraph 2.8 raises a point about drafting. Section 35 of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973 provides that if a councillor fails, for six months, to attend meetings of the council or a committee, the office of councillor is vacated, and that councillor is automatically disqualified from office, unless the council excuses him, for example, because of ill health. The drafting of measures relating to that will have to be considered as there is no consequential amendment to or repeal of section 35.A similar drafting issue, which we address in paragraph 2.9, is that an additional section is required to make specific provision for what will happen in the event of disqualification. The bill simply provides that the order of the commission be sent to the local authority. We feel that something more needs to be done about the statutory effect of disqualification. For example, it might be necessary to examine the nomination forms for new elections. Nomination forms require candidates to declare that they are not politically restricted or bankrupt and so on; a requirement to declare that they are not disqualified by reason of an order of the standards commission might be needed.In paragraph 2.10, we welcome the opportunity that is given by the code to incorporate the proposed new register of members' interests, but the bill does not provide for repeal of section 19 of the Local Government and Housing Act 1989, which is the present governing provision. We think that such a repeal would be appropriate.Paragraph 2.11 relates to the intended repeal of section 2A of the Local Government Act 1986. This society welcomes repeal on the grounds of equality. We had a debate on whether, as legal practitioners, we had found that section to be a difficulty for schools' curriculums or the funding of voluntary groups. The consensus was that in reality it had not. Nevertheless, as a principle, repeal is to be welcomed.On page 6, we have listed some omissions from the bill to draw attention to a few issues that are not covered. One such issue, which was drawn to our attention this morning—one might not expect it to be covered in this bill—is what the Nolan committee described as the archaic mechanism of surcharge. That is a relic of a past age, which was abolished elsewhere in the public sector some time ago. We do not want the issue of surcharge to slip from any legislative agenda.The Nolan committee had something to say about the statutory officers of the council: the head of paid service, the monitoring officer and the chief finance officer. Nolan raised the issue and recommended that it needed to be examined more intensely. That issue has not been flagged up. It requires to be addressed, if the ethical standards framework is to work. In recent years, there have been examples of councils arguably treating certain officers in a way that might not be best practice. If there is a move towards cabinet systems or political executives, there will be a shift away from having a neutral officer corps to an alignment with the majority party. Possibly there will be different groups of officers carrying out the executive and scrutiny functions.If that is to work, and if that shift in attitude is to happen, some officers with responsibility for the ethical framework require protection, which does not exist at the moment. We are not saying that we should be a protected species—we live in the real world. If an officer has lost a council's confidence, there might have to be a parting of the ways. In England and Wales, a mechanism has been found that ensures that a head of paid service cannot be fired without separate investigation by someone from outside the council. We think that such a mechanism should be the minimum consideration for people such as monitoring officers who can, at times, be unpopular.We want to reaffirm our view that the function of a monitoring officer should be separate from that of the head of paid service, and should be at chief officer level. There will, perhaps, be an opportunity in the near future to examine those possibilities.On the last page of our submission on the ethical standards bill we referred to an intended code of conduct for employees. We feel that such a code should be developed, and COSLA has produced a simple model, which is welcome. We wish simply to point out that there should be a mechanism whereby a standard form—rather than ad hoc arrangements—is included in the national conditions of service as part of the collective bargaining process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 479409,
      "EditedText": "Would you favour the advisory notices that are being considered in the Local Government Bill at Westminster?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C479410",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 479410,
      "EditedText": "The sanction ought to bite, but we would rather encourage the development of the new criminal offence at an early stage."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 479411,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that an ombudsman could play an enhanced role and that there is an opportunity for that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C479412",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 479412,
      "EditedText": "No. We know that Nolan canvassed the idea that the commissioner for local administration—or ombudsman—might have a role in investigating and issuing determinations on that. However, we feel that that is not applicable. The ombudsman has a role to play in relation to maladministration on the part of the authority. If something has gone wrong with the system in terms of the standard or quality of the service provided—if a planning application has not been dealt with properly or there is an inappropriate decision-making process—that is the jurisdiction of the ombudsman. We do not think that he has a role to play in adjudicating on ethics of individual councillors."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C479414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Quinn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 479414,
      "EditedText": "I think that I understand your point. Local authorities' standards committees that are distinct from the independent standards commission might not inspire the same public confidence. Our response refers to a role for a local standards committee, because we do not feel that that should be severed totally from the local authority. Local authorities should be supportive of and involved in the new ethical framework. The Scottish arrangements proposed in the bill are slightly different from the English and Welsh arrangements, where the investigating officer—called the ethical standards officer—can remit issues back to a local standards committee. However, we do not believe that the public would have the same confidence in the impartiality of local standards committees in cases where there were substantial allegations against elected members."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 479415,
      "EditedText": "First, I want to welcome two former colleagues from Renfrewshire Council to the committee. That is my interest declared for the public record.The society has reservations about the possible outcomes of inquiries in which a councillor has been found guilty of an offence, especially the option to suspend for up to a year that councillor's entitlement to attend meetings. The submission says that difficulties might arise from public perception of such an arrangement. It makes an appeal for flexibility, indicating that the councillor could instead be suspended from duties on the committee in which the offence was committed. However, would not the public perception of a councillor's suspension from one committee carry over into the councillor's other business?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479419",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 479419,
      "EditedText": "Do you have any further ideas about the composition of the local standards committees?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479425",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 479425,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. The document was excellent—the first one produced by lawyers that I have understood."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479426",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 479426,
      "EditedText": "We have obviously failed. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479432",
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 479432,
      "EditedText": "I have to. Does the order include all dogs—poodles, for instance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C479435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 479435,
      "EditedText": "If only it were always that easy. I hope that I get the same response when we deal with a local government bill."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C479437",
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      "ContributionID": 479437,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12953,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 479316,
      "EditedText": "Comrades, I call this meeting of the Local Government Committee to order, because we have quite a lot of business to get through. If people would stop talking, they would hear me.First, I hope that committee members will agree to go into private session for the last few minutes of the meeting to allow us to decide on potential advisers. The standing orders require the committee to agree that that part of the meeting be held in private, which allows the official report—or OR, as I call it—to go away. Do members agree to go into private session for that part of the agenda?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 479317,
      "EditedText": "This morning, we will take evidence on the Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill. I welcome Andy O'Neill, the policy officer of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities; Councillor Corrie McChord from Stirling Council, whom Sylvia Jackson will know; and Eddie Bain, the chief solicitor of City of Edinburgh Council.We will follow the normal procedure of asking the witnesses to give their presentation and then opening the meeting up to questions. Members have one question and a supplementary. If they want to pursue an issue, that is entirely up to me, but we usually manage to do that without falling out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 479324,
      "EditedText": "COSLA has a historical position, but Andy is probably best equipped to answer your question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 479326,
      "EditedText": "I would appreciate that. However, you agree that surcharging should be removed. It is interesting that in the Local Government Bill that is currently being considered at Westminster it has been removed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eddie Bain (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 479334,
      "EditedText": "There is a need for a code for officers that replicates the principles that apply to elected members. However, there are significant distinctions between the two roles, which requires some separation of the codes.On Donald Gorrie's first question about how councillors could be advised not to breach the code, the bill seems to place a clear duty—certainly as far as local authorities are concerned—to promote the standards set out in the code. Local authorities have a clear responsibility to ensure that, armed with comprehensive guidance, which we hope will be available, members are adequately trained and briefed on all relevant issues. Having said that, councillors will always be ultimately responsible for taking advantage of training and advice made available by council officers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 479338,
      "EditedText": "You talk about standards committees having political balance. How would you define that? Do you take the view that they should contain an equal number from each political party that is represented on the council, or should a standards committee reflect the balance, by proportion, of councillors from each political party? Do you think that the chairs should rotate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 479344,
      "EditedText": "There are different models for different types of councils—urban, rural, independent, politically balanced and politically strong. No model of a local standards committee is universally appropriate. We have to take what we have on the ground at the time. I would not wish to criticise Glasgow's way of doing things; all that I am saying is that it would not be appropriate for my authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 479345,
      "EditedText": "Are you recommending that a flexible framework should be put in place, with all the regulations and paraphernalia that go with it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 479350,
      "EditedText": "It is a little unfair to press you too hard, as you are obviously still coming to a view on many of these important issues, but internal and external regulation is at the heart of the matter. I have two questions. First, are you able, at the moment, to say a bit about the councils that have set up standards committees? I know that Aberdeen has started to use a standards committee and you have mentioned Dumfries and Galloway. Secondly, will you examine the use of standards committees to inform your view? I know that you will be getting general responses from councils, but can you say more about standards committees in particular?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 479351,
      "EditedText": "A number of councils have established standards committees. You mentioned some; others are West Dunbartonshire and West Lothian. The problem is that none of them has any powers to enforce the codes of conduct that they have established. The bill would go a step further towards doing that. As part of the consultation process within COSLA, the councils will tell us about their experience of the workings of the committees that have been set up. At the moment, we cannot say anything beyond that, as we are in a consultation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 479355,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 479360,
      "EditedText": "A final sanction of removal from office would incur a by-election in any case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 479364,
      "EditedText": "It seemed to me that the document meant that councillors would be removed from office, but it is not at all clear. There seems to be no possibility of appeal, but I wonder whether the Executive means that, if someone loses his or her position, that is an end to the matter. It is not clear to you or to me, so we need clarification on that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 479367,
      "EditedText": "There would also be a period of disqualification, during which the disqualified person would not be able to be a member of that body. A by-election could not, therefore, be used as a means of appeal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 479370,
      "EditedText": "Is COSLA concerned about the imposition of interim suspensions on people in the run-up to an electoral period who are subsequently cleared of any breaches of the code? The political party may drop those people because of the interim suspension, and the electorate may reject them because there is a shadow hanging over them. I can see that an interim suspension would be acceptable if a councillor were found guilty of a breach, but if they were suspended and then cleared, would not that be an unjust penalty?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eddie Bain: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 479372,
      "EditedText": "Your question underpins our concern about the concept of interim suspension. If that sanction is necessary, it should be used only in circumstances that clearly justify it, and reasons should be given. It is our perception that interim suspensions should be very rare indeed; instead, there should be as swift an investigation as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 479374,
      "EditedText": "All that I was suggesting was that the political dimension should be tempered by external representation on a local standards committee—that is a personal view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 479377,
      "EditedText": "I meant to say disqualification rather than suspension. Are there any circumstances in which disqualification for periods longer than five years would kick in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 479379,
      "EditedText": "The last example I remember of that was Willie Woodburn—poor Willie was not treated with natural justice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eddie Bain: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 479381,
      "EditedText": "There might be a human rights issue over a disqualification sine die, just as the human rights issue of imprisonment without fixed time limit is being tested in Europe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eddie Bain: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 479384,
      "EditedText": "If I remember correctly, under the 1973 act, if a member is found guilty of an offence that results in a sentence of imprisonment of more than three months, that in itself disqualifies the member from holding office or standing as a candidate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 479386,
      "EditedText": "I understand your reservations about interim suspension. I have come across difficulties in that area. We all understand that, when there is an enormous crime to be investigated, the only way of saving the reputation of the council in question is to get the person out the door."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 479391,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 479394,
      "EditedText": "Does anybody else from the Society of Local Authority Lawyers and Administrators in Scotland wish to add anything, or will you just answer questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Quinn (Society of Local Authority Lawyers and Administrators in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 479395,
      "EditedText": "We are happy to answer any questions. I think that John O'Hagan has given a fair synopsis of our views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 479398,
      "EditedText": "Your advice is to proceed with caution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 479401,
      "EditedText": "On page 4 of your submission, when you talk about the commission and the chief investigation officer, you use the phrase,\"with other staff possibly seconded to the Commission from the Scottish Executive\".Do you have any further views on the composition of that commission?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 479402,
      "EditedText": "I referred to the consultation document that accompanies the bill, although the bill makes provision for the commission to appoint a chief investigating officer. The preamble suggests that after further reflection the Executive will bring forward an amendment to the bill, which would have the effect that Scottish ministers would appoint the chief investigating officer and make provision for civil servants to be seconded to the commission. We understand the reasons for that, but nobody knows how busy the commission will be.I hope that the commission will not operate too often, but it might be that the existence of the commission generates its own business. We understand why the Executive wants it to operate with a degree of flexibility. Our principal point is that as well as it being practical, there is a human rights reason why ministers should appoint that officer, not least because of the recent experience of the temporary sheriffs and the ex officio justices in local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 479403,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, I missed that last bit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 479405,
      "EditedText": "I can see your point about the chief investigating officer. Are you happy with the proposal that the staff of the commission be seconded from the Scottish Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 479406,
      "EditedText": "Yes. There are previous models for that; for example, the staff commission at our organisation was staffed by secondees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 479407,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for a very comprehensive report. I am pleased to see that you recommend the abolition of surcharge. What interim arrangements should be put in place while the proposed offence of abuse of public office is being drawn up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 479408,
      "EditedText": "Pending the development of a new criminal offence of abuse of public office, surcharge should remain. It is not in the public interest to have a gap; in other words, the abolition of surcharge should not happen now, pending the creation of an offence of abuse of public office. Those two things should happen simultaneously and we would like to see a commitment to that.We agree with the Nolan report about the archaic nature of surcharge—it is quite offensive. It is unique to local government and is applicable to officers and councillors. However, a sanction of some kind is required, and we would not want surcharge to be abolished without a substitute being in place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 479413,
      "EditedText": "Can you imagine a mechanism whereby, in a committee that was overloaded by one particular party, a political decision to suspend someone could be taken? Where would be the right of appeal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 479416,
      "EditedText": "I might have explained that badly. The commission should have the flexibility to determine the appropriate sanction, which could mean removal from a particular committee, from a range of committees or from the council itself. The commission should judge the severity of the sanction by the gravity of the offence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 479420,
      "EditedText": "If such committees are to be formed—we think that they could have a role—it is paramount that they are politically balanced. It is not just a question of arithmetic—it is about the attitude of the council. The committee would have to be composed of members of some standing in the council, whose views would be listened to with care. It is about the credibility of the composition—there is no way to legislate or prescribe that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 479423,
      "EditedText": "There is no legal reason?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 479424,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 479427,
      "EditedText": "As I have said to other groups who have given evidence, we might need to call you back at a later date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ID": 12955,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 479428,
      "EditedText": "We now move to the part of today's business that involves the minister. If members can pay attention for a few minutes—Mr Campbell—I will tell them that the minister is here to lay before us a subordinate legislation order. He will not be able to answer technical questions—that is not his role. I will stop members if they put such questions. He has brought civil servants with him who may be able to give clarification on some points.This is a formality. Such orders arise in other committees and among members' notes there should be a note from the Executive that fully explains the order. I do not think that it is very complicated. Mr McAveety is here to present the order; he will not answer technical questions. We can debate the order, although I am not sure that we need to.We are all on a learning curve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C479429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ID": 12955,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Local Government (Mr Frank McAveety): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 479429,
      "EditedText": "It is not as if I have spent sleepless nights worrying about trying to bring together a draft order on the breeding of dogs—it has not been one of the biggest priorities.I want to run through the purpose of the statutory instrument before responding to any questions that may arise. The purpose of the draft Scotland Act Order 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999 is to transfer two regulation-making powers from the minister of the Crown to the Scottish ministers.Earlier this year, the UK Parliament approved a private member's bill, tabled by James Clappison MP—the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Bill—the main aim of which was to improve the welfare of dogs, particularly at licensed breeding establishments. The bill received royal assent on 30 June and will come into effect on 30 December.Two provisions conferred regulation-making powers on the Secretary of State to be exercised by statutory instrument. Those relate primarily to the breeding records that must be kept by the licensed breeder and made available for inspection and the information other than the place where the dog was born that must be shown on the identity tags of certain dogs sold by such establishments. Those regulations are currently subject to negative resolution procedure in the UK Parliament. However, in terms of the Scotland Act 1998, matters relating to dogs and their welfare fall within the devolved competence of the Scottish Parliament. That means that it is for the Scottish ministers to make the regulations as regards Scotland subject to the scrutiny of this Parliament, which we all support and believe in.The powers contained in enactments made before the Scotland Act 1998 came into effect have been passed to Scottish ministers by the transfer arrangements. Unfortunately, the provisions of the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999 did not provide ministers with the necessary powers. Therefore, subject to approval elsewhere, the draft order in council will address that anomaly by transferring the regulation-making powers to the Scottish ministers. It does not transfer any additional legislative powers to the Scottish Parliament; it transfers regulatory powers to the ministers responsible for the subject that Parliament has agreed should fall within the competence of Scottish ministers and the Scottish Parliament.I move,"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ID": 12955,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 479430,
      "EditedText": "That the Parliament Local Government Committee in consideration of the Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc.) (No 2) Order 1999 recommends that the Order be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ID": 12955,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 479431,
      "EditedText": "I cannot believe that you are going to ask a question, Gil."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C479433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ID": 12955,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 479433,
      "EditedText": "Welfare rights organisations have lobbied us for a long time and the bill has widespread support. Its purpose is to improve welfare standards at commercial dog-breeding establishments by strengthening the Breeding of Dogs Act 1973. Therefore, it applies to all dogs that are bred in such establishments.The legislation has been brought about because of the changes in dog breeding in the past 10 years, particularly with regard to the breeding of fighting dogs. We want to ensure that the dogs are not misused. A number of establishments had treated their dogs badly with regard to their breeding pattern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ID": 12955,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 479438,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Trevor Jones, who is the secretary of the Scottish health boards general managers group. He will give a presentation on the Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill from the group's point of view and answer questions. I am sorry that we are rushing you in—at one point I thought that we were running late, but we have made up some time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ID": 12955,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trevor Jones (Scottish Health Boards General Managers Group): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 479439,
      "EditedText": "I will be very brief. In the health service we are keen to have the highest standard of public practice; we strongly support the principle of having common standards of service right across the Scottish public sector.We believe that the health service is well placed to respond to the bill and have no problems with it. Since 1994, following the establishment of the Nolan committee, we have been introducing common standards across the service. We have codes governing corporate governance and probity, and audit committees are in place in all the health organisations with responsibility for standards. We operate in an open way—health board meetings have always been held in public and NHS trust meetings have been held in public since 1 April. We operate in the spirit of the draft bill and we are keen for it to be implemented. The only change that will hit the health service if the bill becomes law is the introduction of a standards commission, but we do not foresee any problems arising from that.There are probably two issues that we will need to think about. First, the bill proposes that employees should be excluded from the legislation. That is interesting from the perspective of a health board or a national health service trust board, which consist of both executive and non-executive members. Although executive directors are employees of the organisation, they are also full corporate members of it. We need to consider whether the bill should apply to executive directors of NHS organisations. As executive directors, we are covered by our contracts of employment and the organisation's grievance and disciplinary procedures, which ensure a particular standard of public behaviour. However, I suggest that the same standard should apply to executive directors as to non-executive directors, as they are full voting members of boards.Secondly, chief executives of NHS organisations are sub accounting officers and report to the chief executive of the NHS in Scotland, who is the accounting officer for expenditure on health services in Scotland. We need to think about how the role of the chief executive of the NHS in Scotland in respect of performance—currently, he has a responsibility for the performance and probity of NHS organisations—will relate to the standards commission.In general, we warmly welcome the proposal. We do not envisage any problems arising from its implementation as far as the health service is concerned, subject to consideration being given to the two issues that I mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ID": 12955,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trevor Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 479442,
      "EditedText": "As we are appointed to NHS boards, there is a code of accountability and a standards code. We sign up to a style of operating. In each health organisation there are audit committees comprising non-executive directors of the organisation. Those committees are charged with upholding the organisation's standards, in line with the Nolan committee's recommendations. The existing audit committees comprise individuals who would be covered by the terms of the act, so there is an issue there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ID": 12955,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 479443,
      "EditedText": "Do you see that structure being changed to bring it in line with the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12953,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12953,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 479315,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:09"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 479328,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the question of suspending councillors and the presumption of innocence. When a situation arises in which something has gone radically wrong, a decision is taken to suspend someone pending investigation. The guilt of that person is not decided on until the investigation has been completed. I am curious to know why you are suggesting that the special responsibility allowance should be removed during that interim period. If there is sufficient evidence to justify an investigation, but innocence is presumed, why should the allowance be removed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 479329,
      "EditedText": "People receive the SRA for duties above the basic councillor duties: chairing meetings, leading policy development and so on. If they are suspended, they will be suspended from any post of chair or convener of a committee that they occupy. That is why they will no longer be entitled to the SRA."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 479332,
      "EditedText": "I did not find much to disagree with in what was said. Does COSLA have any views on how we could sharpen up the rules so that people do not get in trouble in the first place? That should cover all elected people.Should those rules and the general code apply to councils, health boards, LECs and so on, or are they adequately covered by other legislation? A planning official is as open to corruption as a member of a planning committee, so should they not be treated in the same way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 479335,
      "EditedText": "There is a national code of conduct for local government employees, which we developed a couple of years ago with the Scottish Office, the Accounts Commission, the ombudsman and a few other bodies. All councils have accepted that code. I have a copy here, if members would like to read it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 479337,
      "EditedText": "That is a difficult question to respond to, because I agree that whether the councillor could do their duties adequately would depend on the nature of the breach. There might be a public response to that locally. Sometimes breaches might not affect the councillor's ability to carry out their duties, but there may be a public perception of not wanting to deal with that councillor. That may be a difficulty.The document bases part of its considerations on the concept that the electorate decides. That could be a difficult issue in relation to the nature of the breach. The ballot box could decide that. A difficult issue arises, as Andy O'Neill pointed out, when the sanction straddles an electoral period so a councillor may come in with a new mandate. COSLA suggests that the sanction would have to carry over from the old mandate to the new mandate. That would be fair and equitable in terms of the breach. There is a difficulty in terms of the nature of the breach, which we should keep in mind. I do not think that there can be an adequate overall response to that at this point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 479340,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that the Glasgow model is a good one? There—despite the fact that one party had an overwhelming majority on the council—half the members of the standards committee were from the opposition and half were from the administration. Moreover, the chair rotated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 479341,
      "EditedText": "I would not recommend that model to my council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 479346,
      "EditedText": "Breaches could run the gamut from major to minor. Some may be dealt with adequately at local level, with the results given to the commission to consider. There may be the call-in process that Andy O'Neill talks about, or even a local appeals system—something that a national standards commission may want to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 479347,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that the ombudsman should have an enhanced role? Perhaps the ombudsman should have more powers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 479352,
      "EditedText": "Did you have another question, Sylvia?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 479356,
      "EditedText": "Your comment that there is no right of appeal for councillors is made clear in the document. However, it is also stated that the decision should rest with the electorate. It is not clear whether the Executive means that a by-election would be called immediately after a councillor's responsibilities were taken away so that the electorate could decide by that method. Would that be acceptable? Do you see that as a proper form of appeal? Would that be the ultimate way of dealing with the situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 479357,
      "EditedText": "It depends on the finality of the sanction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 479358,
      "EditedText": "Suppose that the councillor was found guilty. At the moment, there is no system of appeal. It is not clear what the Scottish Executive means by the wording on page 22. Does it mean that a by-election would immediately be called? If so, would that satisfy you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eddie Bain: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 479359,
      "EditedText": "If the councillor is found guilty, the sanction may be suspension. However, the bill does not consider suspension a final sentence of unfitness. The punishment is to suspend someone from sitting on the council or perhaps just on one of its committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eddie Bain: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 479361,
      "EditedText": "A sanction of disqualification must trigger a by-election. A suspension, however, is intended as a parallel to the system employed in the House of Commons, where a member of Parliament may be suspended from attending the house for a period of days or months according to the severity of the misdemeanour. A suspension would not disqualify a member permanently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 479362,
      "EditedText": "Removal from office would cause a by-election. In a sense that means that there is no form of appeal, but the document seems to be saying that it would be left up to the electorate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 479365,
      "EditedText": "That is the point that I wanted to clarify. The draft bill at the back of the document says that a period of disqualification may be associated with a sanction of suspension. That period could be up to five years, which would prevent that person from standing in a by-election, so a by-election could not be used as a form of appeal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 479368,
      "EditedText": "The appeal system certainly needs to be clarified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 479369,
      "EditedText": "It seems anomalous that disbarment from office and suspension for six months would achieve the same end. How that is to be handled over an electoral period must be clarified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 479371,
      "EditedText": "In terms of natural justice, absolutely. There is a third problem—media intervention at local level would not help the person involved at all. Sometimes the media do not set much store by natural justice. It is unfortunate that the process would give the electorate the perception that you suggest. We have to be clear about how the process is carried out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 479376,
      "EditedText": "COSLA does not have a view on that, but I have a personal view. If somebody is suspended for six months or more—five years seems incredible—one would question whether they are fit for public office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479380",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 479380,
      "EditedText": "You are saying that five years is the limit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McChord: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 479383,
      "EditedText": "That person would not be available for election."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 479385,
      "EditedText": "Thank God for lawyers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 479388,
      "EditedText": "We do not disagree on that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 479390,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 479392,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the Society of Local Authority Lawyers and Administrators in Scotland, in the form of its secretary, Norman Grieve, its chair, Margaret Quinn, and John O'Hagan, who is the chair of the ethical standards working group.We must finish at about 12 o'clock as Frank McAveety is coming to the committee. I want to take a couple of minutes to tell members why he will be here. He will only be here for a short space of time, so we are two minutes later than I had hoped to be.We will follow the same procedure as before. You will give your presentations, then I will open it to members for questions. They will ask one question and usually a supplementary. If we want to pursue an issue, we may come back to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 479396,
      "EditedText": "I would first like to thank you for producing an excellent, comprehensive document. It has given us pause for thought.I want to ask a question about what you said towards the end of your presentation. Could you expand on how the formation of an executive means that officers would be more biased towards an administration than they are under the current committee system? The setting-up of executives is—as part of the McIntosh recommendations—at the forefront of our minds. We would like to hear more about that, not only in relation to the points that you have made, but so that we can consider our views on executives per se."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O'Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 479397,
      "EditedText": "Under the McIntosh proposals and the Executive's response to them, there is a move towards some sort of model, review or self-renewal in local authorities, which might—depending on each authority's circumstances—lead to some form of cabinet or political executive system.Our understanding is that the Scottish Executive's view is that local authorities should make such decisions. We are conscious that that transition is to be anticipated, or at least encouraged. Behind that is the recognition that, in many councils, there is a group of between half a dozen and a dozen members who can be described loosely as the leading members—committee conveners, leaders and so on. The McIntosh report says that that should be recognised.Our society has a slightly different view about that. The current committee system has served us well, and should not be dispensed with too lightly. If, however, there is to be a move towards political executives, such executives' deliberations will require servicing by an officer corps. Either the chief executive's office or a separate group of officers would service that cabinet. They would produce policy papers, options, recommendations and the like.In the past there has been a provision whereby officers prepare reports, which they might discuss with committee conveners or chairmen. Those reports are then published in full as officers' recommendations and are put on a committee agenda for members to make a decision on them. We think that that system will fade slightly. The papers that come to the council for scrutiny might represent—as would be expected—the views of the political executive.To that extent, there would be an expectation that the officers concerned would work more closely with the political executive. That raises the possibility of a separate group of officers servicing the plenary council and some other audit or scrutiny committee scrutinising the political executive. Although that model is foreign to our traditions, it is not unworkable—it certainly works in many other jurisdictions and in central Government in the UK and Scotland. However, it represents a move away from the political neutrality of officers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 479399,
      "EditedText": "My understanding of McIntosh is slightly different. His recommendations seem to say that if a system is working, it need not be fixed. He is not suggesting that we should decide on a cabinet or an executive model. If the system is working, he is quite happy with it. However, I take the points that you have made.I want to ask a question on law, as there are lawyers present. In the proposed set-up there does not appear to be a system of appeal for councillors. Is that your understanding of the situation, and do you consider that to be fair? If that is the case, will there be legal problems? If someone was suspended or lost his or her position as a councillor, what right of appeal would they have in any civil court? Would that be appropriate? I ask those questions, as there are three free lawyers present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O'Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 479400,
      "EditedText": "If there is to be a single commission to adjudicate on those matters without the requirement for a formal review mechanism in the bill, the only means of redress available to the member concerned will be a judicial review in the Court of Session. It is not inexpensive for an individual councillor to fund an action at the local sheriff court, never mind the Court of Session. If he has fallen foul of his political party, that party might not be sympathetic towards funding such an action. There is also the issue of the councillor's local reputation.A review mechanism ought to be built into the bill—that is appropriate. Although there are differing views on this, the option of a local committee—which would act strictly under guidance from the commission—is attractive because it would provide a review and appeals mechanism. As matters stand, that would be the only mechanism for review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 479404,
      "EditedText": "There is a good human rights reason why ministers, rather than the commission, should appoint the chief investigating officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 479417,
      "EditedText": "There was no difficulty with the clarity of your comments. I was trying to say that if a councillor is found guilty of an offence in committee A, and is suspended from that committee for a year or five years, the public's perception of the offender will probably remain the same over the whole piece."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Norman Grieve (Society of Local Authority Lawyers and Administrators in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 479418,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I can answer your question with a practical example. As John said, it is up to the commission to decide that a councillor should have no involvement with a council or any of its committees. For example, a councillor serving on a planning committee might have contacts with someone who regularly submitted planning applications. It might be deemed totally inappropriate for that councillor—as committee convener or committee member—to get involved in those applications. However, the breach might not be so great that it called into question the councillor's whole moral character. In that case, the commission might decide that it would be more appropriate to suspend that councillor from a particular committee instead of banning him or her from the council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 479421,
      "EditedText": "You say that there are clear benefits in making the code universal. I want to return to the point about the exclusion of enterprise trusts and further education colleges. Are there difficulties in bringing them into the code that would explain why they have been excluded?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Ethical Standards in Public Life etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12954,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12954,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 479422,
      "EditedText": "We are not aware of any obvious reason."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12955,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 479434,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 479436,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12955,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 479440,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Are there any questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12955,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 479441,
      "EditedText": "This is a bit of a naive question, but is your situation similar to that of local government in the sense that some local health boards already have a standards committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12955,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trevor Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 479444,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it needs to change. We would need to check the detail of the audit committees' terms of reference, but the introduction of the bill would not require changes to the spirit in which they operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12955,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 479445,
      "EditedText": "It is unusual for there not to be more questions—members of the committee are usually a very chatty lot. Thank you for coming. If we need to clarify anything, we will invite you back.We will now move into private session. I ask the official report, members of the public and the press to leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2704
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 12955,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 235.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 479446,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 12:40."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5504617+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 3553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John Swinney): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 156688,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I open the 9th meeting of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee.As part of a dangerous plot by Margo MacDonald, I now have the throat lurgy. I appeal to members not to require me to impose much shouting and bawling today, as that would be outwith my capability.Our agenda today comprises two items, one of which will be taken in public and one in private. At the end of the first item we will move into private session and I will ask members of the public to leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 156690,
      "EditedText": "I will be involved with the Tayside case study so I should declare an interest: my husband works for one of the business shops in Tayside."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 156696,
      "EditedText": "I am rapidly becoming the pariah of the conveners committee, owing to the number of requests for initiatives that emanate from this committee. I suspect that I acquired a bad name at yesterday's meeting.We now turn to the recommendations on page 3 of the paper. I seek the committee's agreement to discuss in private the tourism review at our meeting on 12 January 2000.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 156697,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee agree to invite the minister responsible—that would be Alasdair Morrison—and representatives of the Scottish Tourist Board who are involved in the review?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 156699,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee agree to undertake the four case studies outlined in the paper?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 156702,
      "EditedText": "I would not want to be prescriptive about the way in which members conduct the case studies. The only stipulation that I require, in relation to this inquiry, is that we follow the committee's remit, which must guide the direction of each case study. However, I would not want the study to be compartmentalised and not to consider other issues that have an impact on our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 156705,
      "EditedText": "I propose that each group has a lead member of staff from the clerking side, who would sit down with the reporter—and the other group members, if they were available—to work out in detail what they wanted to do. Each group would be reasonably autonomous in choosing whom it invited and in deciding the best value from speaking to people on the ground."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.5264852+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 156706,
      "EditedText": "Simon, if it were not too burdensome for the clerks, would it be possible for them to prepare a modest briefing pack with a wee map of the area and a list of the local authorities, enterprise trusts and local enterprise companies? It was discussed at our sub-committee meeting that we need such factual information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.5264852+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 156715,
      "EditedText": "I can request that we have access to those documents. Ministers are considering making that information available to us. That concludes item 1 of the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.5264852+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 156716,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 12:45."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.5264852+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C156714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 156714,
      "EditedText": "Most submissions are not submitted on the basis that they are private. Most organisations would be quite happy for the committee to consider their submissions—they might even expect it. Organisations that make submissions in a consultation process and want them to remain private tend to say so.I hope that the committee can include in its paper a sixth recommendation, asking to examine submissions on the same basis as the strategy document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:02.9509109+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 3553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 156687,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:06"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 156693,
      "EditedText": "Hear, hear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 156694,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that vote of confidence, sister.I hope that that level of professionalism can be maintained and that the minister's action proves to be infectious—although I hope that your sore throat does not, John."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 156695,
      "EditedText": "Allan Wilson made a good point. Perhaps you could convey his sentiments to the conveners committee, John."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 156698,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee agree that all members will be bound not to release any of the information contained in the review or the basis of the committee's discussion, or to comment on it publicly prior to publication?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 156704,
      "EditedText": "As I said earlier, each reporter will be supported by the clerks in formulating the programme. I invite Simon Watkins to say a few words on those preparations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 156709,
      "EditedText": "We will not get into that. I suspect that, if we get into the specification of Ordnance Survey scale, I shall be in even more trouble at the conveners committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.5264852+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 156710,
      "EditedText": "As I am to be sent out of Edinburgh, I shall need a map.In my previous job, if I embarked on a project such as this, I would do a bit of asking around. Constituency and list members must have opinions on, and experience of, the various organisations and the way in which they work. We could initiate informal discussion with those members, to build up a picture with the clerk. It would take a long time to do that if we consulted anybody who is anybody. We should try to think of some folk first. A wee flow chart that outlined what we would do would be a good idea, as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.5264852+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 156689,
      "EditedText": "The first agenda item is the paper that has been circulated in Simon Watkins's name on consideration of the tourism review and inquiry case studies.A fortnight ago, we discussed the offer by Henry McLeish, the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning, to give the committee the opportunity to consider the tourism review. He proposed that we consider the document prior to publication and we suggested to him that we do so at our meeting on 12 January. I seek the committee's agreement to holding that meeting in private, because the document will not have been published. I expect that the committee would hear evidence from the minister responsible, Alasdair Morrison, and from representatives of the Scottish Tourist Board. We would then formulate our input to the tourism review and communicate that to the minister. We would reserve the right to hold further public hearings on the tourism review once it is published, probably in early February.I appreciate the minister's initiative in making the document available to the committee prior to publication, which sets a useful precedent. All members will be required to respect the confidentiality that will be necessary if the minister makes the document available to us. We are all aware of the importance of the confidentiality of committee papers and of committee discussions that are held in private—we are entitled to hold such private discussions if the committee so decides.However, I make it clear to members that there would be two consequences if the confidentiality of the tourism review document were breached. First, we would never again be given the opportunity to consider a pre-publication document, which would be a matter of regret but an understandable position for the Executive to adopt. Secondly, we would have to identify the person who had released the document and, as convener, I would pursue that vigorously, because the committee cannot operate if those ground rules are broken.Other material was put forward in relation to case studies. It was proposed that the committee should undertake four case studies. We planned to examine business development services in Renfrewshire, Ayrshire and Tayside and the provision of lifelong learning services in Fife. The paper includes the names of the reporters who would be responsible for those areas. The clerking team would support members in the preparation of the programme of the inquiries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 156691,
      "EditedText": "That will be noted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 156692,
      "EditedText": "The minister's initiative—in telling the committee in private session about the proposals for the tourism review prior to their being published—is to be welcomed. It meets the concerns that we expressed at our previous meeting and is a result of the professional way in which the committee has addressed its remit, especially when compared with other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 156700,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee agree on the names of the reporters and members who will participate in the studies, and that the reporters will report back to the committee on 26 January?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 156701,
      "EditedText": "Would it be in order for those who are conducting the case studies on business development services to use their discretion to examine examples of workplace training? I am thinking of the examples of Michelin Tyres in Dundee and United Distillers in Renfrewshire. That would help us to incorporate the issue of workplace training into the wider issue of business development services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 156703,
      "EditedText": "From a practical point of view, how do we envisage setting up the visits, identifying the key players and accessing the customers in an area? The last thing that I want to do is to listen to all the interest groups that deliver the service telling us what a wonderful job they do in Ayrshire, that they can operate in partnership and all the rest of it. I want to get out there and find out, at the sharp end, the customers' views; that is what this committee has been trying to do. I want to identify how we can do that, and what the process will be after that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 156707,
      "EditedText": "We are in the process of preparing a pack for each group, which will include all the submissions that have been received from the area plus the element of the gridwork that we are in the process of commissioning, which will outline each authority's responsibilities. That will be the starting point for discussion of whom the groups might want to talk to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.5264852+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 156708,
      "EditedText": "For my benefit, could we have a map? I like maps. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.5264852+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 156711,
      "EditedText": "The clerks will give each team the support that is required. George Lyon's point underpins our outlook on the inquiry and the point that we have reached so far. We want to get beyond the usual suspects, to the real people who use the services. That should underpin a lot of our reports.The committee agrees the case studies, the members and the reporters. We will hear those reports on 26 January. The committee also confirms the revised schedule of meetings, as outlined in the paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.5264852+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 156713,
      "EditedText": "Fergus has raised an interesting point. We are getting access to a pre-publication copy of the review, but members also want to see some of the consultation documents that fed into the exercise. We can request as much information as can be made available to us, with the caveat that we treat it as private, on the same basis as the review document. That would forbid us from commenting on it in public. I cannot give the committee an assurance that the material will be available—that is a matter for the minister and the Scottish Tourist Board, which conducted the review.Nevertheless, there is an opportunity for us to listen to people's views about the review—I have already had that opportunity. That is an informative process and will help us to understand the issues with which the tourism industry is wrestling. Getting access to private documents may not be the only way in which we can gather information about the concerns that have been raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.5264852+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C156712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 826
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Tourism Review",
      "HeadingID": 3554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 156712,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for being late. I was making a rare television appearance.In our tourism review, I am concerned that we may face a difficulty unless we have access to the submissions that are made to the Executive by those who have an interest in, and specialist knowledge of, that industry. We may be presented with a set of conclusions that are based on submissions. Would it be possible for the committee to receive from the Executive the documents that will, no doubt, be prepared by the civil service to summarise the content of the submissions? Those documents will be all-important, as they will contain the views of our constituents and people throughout Scotland who have an interest. We must establish what our relationship with the civil service is, in relation to the freedom of information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:02.9509109+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 106607,
      "EditedText": "I have a final question. The situation is hypothetical, but I am interested to hear your views. How would you react to the suggestion that you become an independent school?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 106609,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 106666,
      "EditedText": "In that case, it is almost certain that any decision to close the school would not be taken by Stirling Council—the matter would be referred to the Minister for Children and Education. One of the central elements of the bill is to place an obligation on authorities to implement devolved school management schemes. Do you think that devolved school management of St Mary's would go a long way towards offsetting some of your concerns about the school being brought back into local authority control?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 106589,
      "EditedText": "We have two sets of witnesses this morning, the first from St Mary's Episcopal Primary School, Dunblane and the second from Steiner Waldorf Schools for Curriculum Choice in Scotland.I welcome our visitors from St Mary's Episcopal Primary School, Dunblane to the meeting. I will explain our approach: you will have an opportunity to make your introduction on aspects of the draft improvement in Scottish education bill. Committee members will then have the opportunity to ask you questions. I believe that Alistair McCulloch will make the opening statement. Mr McCulloch, could you introduce the other members of your team? Committee members may indicate who they wish to answer their questions, or they may leave it up to you to decide who answers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 106602,
      "EditedText": "Not formally, on that level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C106591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 106591,
      "EditedText": "This question is probably for Mr McCulloch, but if any of the other witnesses would like to answer, please do. I have read through your document, and accept what you say about the quality and standards that you have achieved. However, in the section under the heading of \"The effects of St Mary's losing its current management status\", there is a list of very negative statements, and no positive statements. Do you feel that there would be no positive benefits for the children or for the school if you came under the control of Stirling Council?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson (St Mary's Episcopal Primary School, Dunblane): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 106593,
      "EditedText": "It is not for us to define what the benefits would be of going back under council control. In consultation with the Executive, our local MSP, Dr Sylvia Jackson, has defined the benefits. In a letter to the school board on 24 September, she said:\"You are also seeking clarification of reasons why the Scottish Executive and myself believe that the School should return to local authority management. Aside from it being an election commitment in Scotland, the advantages of the range of support services and professional expertise offered by the local authority is important.\"For example, Stirling Council's Quality Assurance Policy Framework deals with the key areas of: school development planning; audit/self evaluation; and targets for improvement. The staff development programme includes: quality assuring in-school programme; staff development and review; sharing good practice; peer group support and cluster planning. Advice and support services include: ICT policy and strategy; support for children . . . ; access policies . . . ; support for parents . . . ; and primary/secondary liaison.\"We do not feel that any of those things would suffer as a result of St Mary's keeping its current status. If you cared to ask our head teacher, she could go through some of the areas in which our school development plan is working at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 106604,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 106608,
      "EditedText": "By \"independent school\", do you mean outwith the state system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cath Prescott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 106613,
      "EditedText": "When I talked with Stirling Council about partnership funding for the nursery, the council wanted to put me with the private partnership group in its meetings. I refused, as I regard ours as a state school with a state nursery. Our parents, the board and the staff are drawn from all political parties. The will is not there to become a private school. We want to be a state school and stay as we are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 106614,
      "EditedText": "You say that you are a state school. I accept that. I am sympathetic to your viewpoint. However, as a state school you must recognise that the state has an overview, and that no school is an island. I am interested in your relationship with the other primary schools in Dunblane, the way in which your school is perceived by other people, how you relate to the other state secondary schools, and so on. I take on board what you say about your school, but I wonder what the knock-on effect on other schools would be. That is part of the ideological difficulty that I have with private education as it operates in England—it is divisive, causes rivalries between schools, and so on. I am not making a judgment; I am asking about those kinds of issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 106618,
      "EditedText": "In that case, Stirling Council should have some say in what you do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 106624,
      "EditedText": "Yours is a small school and small schools are traditionally more expensive than larger schools. However, your per-pupil costs seem not only to be lower than those of comparable schools, but lower than those of many larger schools. What enables St Mary's to drive down its per-pupil costs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 106632,
      "EditedText": "When you say that you are meeting Stirling Council, presumably you are not paying for its time, but the rest of the community is. Every time that you go to Stirling Council for this, that or the other, somebody pays for it. When it comes to the proportion of management costs to central costs, there is not exactly a level playing field.My second point is slightly off the subject, but I want to raise it. I am interested in issues such as maintenance of buildings. Has less been spent on the school buildings recently and might not that hit you later on? That happens in other schools. Have you put the emphasis on teaching provision—which is desirable—and will your failure to maintain your buildings catch up with you one day?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 106637,
      "EditedText": "I have three questions. They are quite short, and they arise from my visit to your school some months ago. I thank you for your hospitality.First, I am an Episcopalian and I have experience of an Episcopalian Church school in Inverness being faced with closure. Why have there been comparatively few representations from the Church?Secondly, during my visit to St Mary's I outlined the Dornoch Academy situation. That is seen as something of a success in terms of a school coming back under council control. Since I visited your school, have you had any contact with Dornoch Academy or its representatives?Thirdly, although I appreciate what you say about the director of education, the council is, or should be, the master—although some might disagree with that. What contact have you had with elected representatives, particularly the representative who covers the ward in which the school is located?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 106639,
      "EditedText": "What discussions have you had with elected members?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 106640,
      "EditedText": "Dr Sylvia Jackson MSP has visited the school and we have regular contact with her. We know that she is listening, but she has not indicated any support for our cause."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 106642,
      "EditedText": "I beg your pardon. We have not contacted any councillors; however, the children's committee met recently and said that it would favour our return to local authority control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 106643,
      "EditedText": "I want to explore two issues. In many ways, St Mary's school could be the ultimate example of devolved management of resources, which is a policy that the bill will encourage and extend. However, do you have any fears about special needs provision if the school is taken back into the fold? Special needs funding is based on the number of pupils in a school who have such needs. Under the current devolved management of resources, a head teacher can use those resources to increase his or her allocation of special needs support time. I am rather disappointed by your negative view of what will become of the school under Stirling Council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 106645,
      "EditedText": "I am not familiar with Stirling Council itself. Ms Prescott, what is your experience of being a head teacher with devolved management of resources within the state sector?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 106647,
      "EditedText": "As Cathy Peattie said, you seem to have a very negative view of the school's future. I hope that the future will not prove to be so negative; perhaps, after four years out of the system, you are not au fait with the amount of control you will have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 106650,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that I cut off Mr Scott. Did you want to add something, Mr Scott?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 106654,
      "EditedText": "You say that you think that you will lose a teacher because of additional bureaucratic costs. How will rejoining Stirling Council affect the ethos of the school, which relates to the activity of the school board and the head teacher and to the participation of parents and pupils? Why do you think that the ethos would be damaged?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 106655,
      "EditedText": "Ethos is a wonderful word, but difficult to define, as we all know. St Mary's has always had a strong ethos, even when it was under local authority control. We believe that the ethos has been reinforced by the fact that we are a small denominational school that runs its own affairs. With that comes great responsibility. Meetings of the school board were always sparsely attended but meetings of the board of management are always well attended by parents and others and there is a high level of accountability. We do not take our responsibilities lightly and are always aware that we are dealing with the future of our children. Such considerations create the school's ethos and would be lost if we returned to local authority control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 106656,
      "EditedText": "We are not paid managers of the school; we are committed to the school. The board is not committed to roads, parks, lights, the police or to anything else; it is committed to the school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 106664,
      "EditedText": "I believe that the capacity is 60. Is that correct, Alistair?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 106665,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer that, because it depends on where in the school we can squeeze in the desks and whether they are small or large desks. I am not being flippant—we are pretty well at capacity and cannot take many more pupils."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 106669,
      "EditedText": "The school is denominational, so any decision about closure would have to go to the Minister for Children and Education in any event. Our fear is not one of closure—we fear change of use. We know fine well that there is spare capacity within the other two primary schools, one of which is a new school. Because we are such a small school, those schools could take our primary pupils. However, there is an increasing shortage of pre-school capacity, because of the demand for places for three and four-year-olds. There is no logical reason why we could not be used as a pre-school centre, although Dunblane is growing and, in time, all capacity will be required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 106674,
      "EditedText": "We will reconvene now. I apologise to the witnesses for the delay—we had told them that we would be ready for them at about 10 o'clock. As they were here, they will be aware that they have been delayed because we wanted to investigate as many matters as possible with the previous witnesses. If the witnesses wish, they may make a statement. I understand that Dorothy Baird will say a few words to add to the written submission, which the committee has had the opportunity to read. Members of the committee will then ask questions. I would be grateful if Dorothy Baird would introduce the other witnesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 106695,
      "EditedText": "I have accepted in my class five children from state schools who, for different reasons, were not thriving. One child was being bullied, another was very bright and had seen one worksheet too many, another was not socially settled and the other two had learning difficulties. Over the past four years, they have all settled into my class very well. The children who have learning difficulties are referred to the care group, the learning support teacher and the school doctor; together they consult on the child's difficulties. The child will be referred for learning support or one of a variety of therapies that we introduce in school, such as speech therapy, movement therapy and painting therapy. Painting therapy is particularly helpful for children who are emotionally blocked. We have a wide range of therapies to offer children who have difficulties. We do very well with children who do not thrive elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy Baird: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 106697,
      "EditedText": "It is very important that the class teacher works with the whole group of children. They stay together as a class unit for eight years. The teacher tries to create a social unit, so that each child learns to respect the differences in the others. The mixed ability and approach—the academic, artistic and practical aspects, which the children study together—allow the children to appreciate the qualities of every child. That is fundamental to the ethos of the school. Even children who are potentially disaffected, or who have academic problems and might feel a sense of failure in another school, are supported and appreciated by the rest of the class."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 106709,
      "EditedText": "Are there certain aspects of the way that you manage your schools that you would not be willing to give up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Catriona Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 106706,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 106707,
      "EditedText": "That leads me to my question. We have heard from representatives of St Mary's, who fear entering into a new relationship with their local authority. In becoming part of the state sector, state funding would be received, and there might be many ways in which that might be handled and the school might be managed. That is a separate matter from the curricular issues, which we have covered quite well. You might be comfortable with some of those ways of management, although some might involve quite radical changes—in the appointment of staff, for instance. You may come to an agreement with the GTC that allows you leeway with which you are comfortable, but that might not fit in with the normal procedures that are followed in local authorities for contracting and so on. Have you had discussions with schools of similar size in the state sector, to find out how they are managed and whether they perceive any difficulties? If you have not, would you be willing to do so? Have you had discussions with local authorities about the way in which they manage schools, which might be different from the way in which your school is managed? If you have not, would your schools in Edinburgh and Aberdeen be willing to initiate those discussions? Finally, do you think that there would be a limit to the concessions that you would be prepared to make on management—for instance, in the appointment of a head teacher? A local authority may say that such an appointment is normally its domain. I am anxious to explore where the hurdles might be, so that we can consider how they might be removed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 106717,
      "EditedText": "The pattern in European countries is that, once state funding is granted, there is often a fivefold increase in applications within a decade.It is important to clarify a couple of things first, so that members do not get the wrong end of the stick. We are not a private school, we are independent. The majority of parents at Aberdeen Waldorf School earn less than £15,000 a year; very few earn more than that. Many of our schools abroad can be found in townships and favelas. We do not have to be located in a nice, cosy little suburb. We can practise anywhere and be successful. We do not have any problem with where a new school is sited."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy Baird: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 106720,
      "EditedText": "Children in Steiner Waldorf schools also sit the national exams. In those countries there is national accreditation, as there is here. Children at schools here also sit highers, standard grades and, in some cases, A-levels. The systems coexist."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 106723,
      "EditedText": "We are currently sharing our practices with local education authorities. I recently gave a course on early years learning at Summerhill in Aberdeen. Our local education authorities are very happy to learn from our practices. There is a lot to learn. Childhood is valuable and must be treated in the right way, particularly for three and four-year-olds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Palmer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 106728,
      "EditedText": "The situation reflects the commitment and vocation of Steiner Waldorf teachers. It is astounding that they show such a level of commitment for that amount of money when, for example, Elizabeth could work for double that amount in the state sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Catriona Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 106731,
      "EditedText": "The view of the board of trustees is that we can only pay our teachers out of the income that we have. As Betty said, the percentage of families in her school that are in the £15,000 and under bracket—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 106732,
      "EditedText": "Most of them are teachers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 106736,
      "EditedText": "So Steiner Waldorf representatives would be in addition to, not instead of, HMI inspectors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 106744,
      "EditedText": "My second question is about costs. What would it cost the state system to adopt all four Steiner schools?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Catriona Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 106745,
      "EditedText": "We do not have a complete figure. The cost is hard to quantify, because if the state were to start funding us, you might want to make changes to things such as salaries and pensions. The turnover of the Edinburgh Rudoph Steiner School is £800,000. We own all of our buildings. Our basic salary is £10,800."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 106746,
      "EditedText": "Are all four schools roughly the same size?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Palmer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 106748,
      "EditedText": "We think that there are about 500 pupils in the four schools. We would not dream of asking for more money per pupil than state schools currently get, as that would create double standards. That is an important principle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 106750,
      "EditedText": "On item 2, the clerk has circulated a paper outlining the issues relevant to special educational needs. Are there any questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 106755,
      "EditedText": "We should write to the minister seeking clarification. If we feel that the response is not satisfactory, I will be quite happy to ask the minister to attend the committee to discuss the matter further. We should ask specifically about the time scale at this stage, but we may want to go on to discuss the issue more widely later. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 106756,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 106757,
      "EditedText": "Under the heading \"How the reports relate to the proposed inquiry\", the final sentence reads:\"The inquiry could produce information which will assist the Committee in its scrutiny of this aspect of the Improvement in Scottish Education Bill.\"I understood that our inquiry would go beyond the time scale of the bill itself. Why does the paper state that the inquiry could provide us with useful information? Much of the useful information may emerge only after our scrutiny of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 106761,
      "EditedText": "That is right. Some confusion has arisen because we are not sure of the time scale for the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 106762,
      "EditedText": "Nor, it would seem, is the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 106766,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 106767,
      "EditedText": "Under the heading \"Diversity\", the document states:\"Information produced by the inquiry will provide an up-to-date ‘audit' of educational provision for children with special educational needs across Scotland.\"That is an admirable aim, but it seems rather ambitious. Would the inquiry really be able to achieve that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 106770,
      "EditedText": "There are inconsistencies across Scotland and that is part of the reason for holding an inquiry. We can learn from best practice. I hope that that will be one of the outcomes of the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 106771,
      "EditedText": "If that is our ambition, there may be resource implications of which we will have to be aware and to which we will have to commit ourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 106775,
      "EditedText": "Shall I tell the committee how the process works?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 106778,
      "EditedText": "I have one concern. Although it may be an advantage to have a person with a great deal of experience, to avoid a conflict of interest, that person should not have worked on either of the reports that we are considering."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 106779,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 106780,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean that the person must not have worked on those reports exclusively?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 106786,
      "EditedText": "All the advisers who have been appointed so far have worked on a consultancy basis, and have been paid a daily rate for a certain number of days. The advantage of doing that has been that we have been able to get people who might not have been willing or able to work full time, but who could make some time available. However, we are open to discussion on that, because as yet we do not have much experience in appointing advisers, and different committees will have different needs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106790",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 106790,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that what Ian Welsh suggests could be done, but obviously there is a clearer relationship with a consultant, especially as he or she can be appointed speedily. However, as there is no particular rush—we are talking about February at the earliest—I think that the suggestion of seconding someone should be considered sympathetically."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106792",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 106792,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is committee visits to schools."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106799",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 106799,
      "EditedText": "Mary, you are a much more practical person than I am."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106805",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
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      "ID": 2166,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 106805,
      "EditedText": "That means that the submissions will not be recorded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 106813,
      "EditedText": "That would be useful. The reason that I raise the matter is that I was trying to track our decision to take written rather than oral evidence from the Scottish Youth Theatre. The decision fell into a black hole because we discussed the matter in private. There is no record of when the decision was made. As a result, I was surprised last week when SYT was not here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106814",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
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      "ID": 2166,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 106814,
      "EditedText": "I take that point on board. We need to be quite clear about what the committee has decided to do. Members will get copies of the decisions taken.The next item on the agenda is the inquiry on national arts companies, which we agreed at the beginning of the meeting to take in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106587",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 106587,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:33"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2163,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2163,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Mary Mulligan): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 106588,
      "EditedText": "Before I invite our witnesses to speak, I have a housekeeping matter to deal with. Does the committee agree that we will go into private session to deal with item 4 on the agenda, the national arts companies inquiry?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 106592,
      "EditedText": "I will answer that by referring to my initial statement that we would lose a proportion of our funding. As you will understand, St Mary's is funded by a grant from the Scottish Executive. It is divided into two pieces: one is school level expenditure, the other is central costs. That is fundamental to the impact of any change in status.We spend 5 per cent of our grant on administration. Central costs represent about 14 per cent of our grant, but we do not use 14 per cent on administration, so most of that goes on staffing. If we lose our current management status, we will lose that 14 per cent immediately; that is what happens. That will have an immediate impact, and we will have to lose staff—a lot of staff. In effect, we will go back to having our three core teachers, with perhaps a little secretarial support, but that would be it.If we go to Stirling Council, we are told that we will be part of its quality assurance framework; we already have a quality assurance framework in our school. We are told that we will be part of its in-service staff development programme; we already have an in-service staff development programme. All the other programmes are already in place in our school. I therefore find it difficult to see how a change could be positive. At the moment Stirling Council is saying that we are overfunded, so is it likely that it will say to us: \"Don't worry about the 14 per cent. You can just keep it\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cath Prescott (St Mary's Episcopal Primary School, Dunblane): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 106594,
      "EditedText": "I would like to reiterate what was said. We have a school development plan well in advance, which we update every six months in conjunction with the staff. The pupils have an input. There is a school council that has an input, which reports to the staff. Using the Scottish Executive document, \"How good is your school?\" we analyse and evaluate the school, and then change the school development plan according to our needs.We recognised, for instance, that we have a lot of children with special needs in the school. Therefore, we put it to the board that we should increase our learning support teacher's time. That was done. Before we were self-governing, our learning support teacher came for one morning every two weeks. She now comes for a whole day every week. This is why our results are as good as they are: if we recognise a need, we can address it, using the funds that we have.If we were to go back to Stirling Council control, I would have absolutely no say in how much time with a learning support teacher our children would have, who that teacher might be, when she would come, how much support for learning areas I would receive or how much school-helper time I would get. We are able to use our resources directly for the benefit of the children, according to our needs. That is the school development plan.For the staff development and review, we access staff development from Perth and Kinross, Fife and Stirling Council, as well as from commercial firms such as NFER-Nelson. We receive a lot of staff development of all kinds. People that we pay as consultants come to the school, and we go to various places. We are well up on educational developments.We share good practice. For instance, at our last staff development exercise, in August, two other local primary schools came to our school and we shared the payment of a consultant. We receive peer group support and the children are well supported. There is a school council, monitors and a buddy system. The children feel that they are part of the school and that they have an input. Everything is discussed, therefore we have no real discipline problems at all.Child protection, attendance and substance use were mentioned in the letter. I have been on a child protection course. We are well aware that we must take those issues on board, and we do so. We have updated all the school's policies and we are aware of educational developments. All the press cuttings that I gather I circulate to the board, so that board members are constantly updated on developments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C106595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 106595,
      "EditedText": "You say that you have a high proportion of children with special needs, which requires special support. Could you give me a percentage of the children who need that kind of support?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cath Prescott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 106596,
      "EditedText": "There are 66 pupils in the school and 27 children in the nursery. We are part of Stirling Council's staged intervention scheme. Part of that requires us to fill in forms for state intervention to access resources. I filled in 22 state intervention forms, which account for a third of the pupils in the school. Some of those cases are minor—the children have speech and language problems—but concern must be registered at the first stage of the impact on classroom learning and teaching.A lot of parents have chosen us because we are a small school with a caring ethos. They feel that that environment would be better for a child who has special needs. We are therefore sought out for our ability to cater for children with special needs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Scott (St Mary’s Episcopal Primary School, Dunblane): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 106605,
      "EditedText": "The visitor of schools and Margaret Doran came to the school last summer. They were not interested in the school; they wanted a nursery. They were interested to know how we thought that the building could be used as a pre-school centre: that was the basis of the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cath Prescott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 106606,
      "EditedText": "Two other board members and I had a meeting with Gordon Jeyes a while ago, at which he told us that Stirling Council does not fund according to need, as we have been trying to do. That makes me believe that our children with special needs would not receive the funding that they require."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 106612,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 106615,
      "EditedText": "There are, as you know, three primary schools in Dunblane—two larger schools and our small denominational school, St Mary's, which has not been mentioned. About half of our children are Scottish Episcopalian. We provide the choice—which some parents want—of a Christian ethos within the community. St Mary's is also a small school, which some parents feel is better for their children and which is another element of the choice that we offer.We have very good links with the other two primary schools in Dunblane. Small and large schools are needed. As one of three feeder primary schools, we also have very good links and regular meetings with Dunblane High School. We are not isolated; we are a state school—part and parcel of the state education system—that happens to be managed differently.As the committee is aware, Dunblane is growing. There is no end in sight to that growth and demand for primary school places will increase. We provide a much-needed resource within the community, but we do not see ourselves as separate or isolated. Does that answer your question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 106623,
      "EditedText": "As you said, St Mary's is not a pilot. However, I understand that there is a pilot learning community in Glasgow at Eastbank Academy, which is run by Glasgow City Council. There, clustered schools have, effectively, been given self-governing status. Without being political or trying to flag up any issues, I think that there are a number of lessons to be learned from that.As I said earlier, we spend 5 per cent of our total revenue grant on central administration, whereas in Scotland the total spent on that is 27 per cent. Stirling Council spends 16 per cent on central administration. That means that of our total grant more taxpayers' money is going into the classroom. There are five Stirling schools that are the same size as ours whose school-level expenditure is greater than our total expenditure—which is central costs plus school-level expenditure. However, we can still provide a high level of service for our children because we have lessened our administration costs and diverted that saving towards teachers and pupils.If somebody wanted to use us as a pilot, that would be fine. We believe that our school works and is successful. If it works, why change it merely for ideological reasons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 106625,
      "EditedText": "Unfortunately, our costs per pupil are limited by the amount of money that the Government gives us. As Alistair McCulloch said, our Government grant is £65,000 less than what Aberfoyle Primary School spends on school-level expenditure for 78 pupils. We have, therefore, to cut our cloth, but our major savings are made on administration costs. We do not have the heavy back-end administration costs of a council, and we are able to devote any savings to the education of our children.Cath Prescott has mentioned that the support that we get from Stirling Council for special needs education is somewhat limited. We provide additional special needs support from our own budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 106630,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask for a little more detail on a point that you made at the beginning of your evidence, which was that if St Mary's reverted to council management, there would be less support for those who need it most. Can you explain why?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 106633,
      "EditedText": "I will deal with the first point; Paul Nelson may want to deal with the second.We do not get 100 per cent funding—we get just under 100 per cent because Stirling Council has certain statutory obligations, so some of the money is removed. The departments of Stirling Council that are responsible for special educational needs—transport and so on—get a share of our budget for that. When we have meetings with Stirling Council, usually others are present. We are part of the community and if the council wants to bill us for its time, it can do that. It has not yet done so, but providing that the charge was reasonable, we would examine that. However, I do not think that Ian Jenkins's comments are entirely fair."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106634",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 106634,
      "EditedText": "I want to comment on finance. Of the total amount that we should be allocated, 3.2 per cent is retained by Stirling Council to cover the retained items—partly the items to which Ian Jenkins referred, and partly the items to which Alistair McCulloch referred.The school has additional costs because it is self-governing and there are areas of inefficiency because the school is small. One such area is insurance costs. St Mary's must insure its buildings, so our insurance costs are much higher than those that the local council allocates to schools. In truth, we spend as much on our school buildings as others do. Since the school's refurbishment, some items have not been included in the capital costs and we have had to pay for them from our maintenance budget. I do not believe that we are spending any less on the buildings now than we would spend on an older school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 106636,
      "EditedText": "I will bring you in again in a moment. We are already running over time, but three members still have questions and I am keen that they should ask them. Please keep questions and answers fairly succinct, so that we can fit everybody in. I am aware that our other witnesses are waiting to speak to us, so members should bear that in mind, although I will try to bring people in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 106638,
      "EditedText": "We are a denominational school and we have the support of the Scottish Episcopal Church's education committee. We also have the support of the local vestry and of the bishop. In his letter, the Bishop of St Andrews says:\"Why can't the politicians abolish future opting out, if they wish, but leave St Mary's to get on with doing a first class job?\"That is fairly succinct.Some time ago I had regular contact with Dornoch Academy, but that contact petered out. Dornoch had its own agenda and, as you are aware, the situation in Dornoch was peculiar because it was not a full secondary school with all years from 1 to 6. Its reason for becoming self-governing was totally different from ours.What was your third question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cath Prescott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 106644,
      "EditedText": "I asked a friend of mine who is a head teacher in the Stirling Council region whether she had any say in her support for learning areas or school helper time allocations and she said that she did not, even though she is involved in the devolved management of resources scheme. However, she has a say in visiting teachers and in her own head teacher relief. Learning support teachers are allocated by a co-ordinator who is part of the support for learning areas network team. Learning support teacher and SLA support allocations are based on an annual audit into special needs provision in the area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cath Prescott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 106646,
      "EditedText": "Although this is the first time that I have been a head teacher, I have worked in placements in four different local authorities, the most recent of which was in Scotland, and I worked in England at a time when a scheme that I think was called devolved school management was being implemented, which was far in advance of what has happened in Scotland. As a result, I have seen the matter from many different angles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106648",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
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      "EditedText": "I want to relate that comment to a chat that I had with our director of education at an educational conference in Edinburgh. He said to someone else that the school had done a good job but was going to be closed. Afterwards, when I pointed out to him that the school was not going to be closed, he said that he would have done it. He will deny that comment, because he made it only to me. He has closed other small schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 106649,
      "EditedText": "Could I comment—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 106651,
      "EditedText": "Stirling Council sometimes takes as long as seven months to address issues that we raise. The board of the school can address issues much faster. The delay causes us concern, as we are used to getting on with things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 106652,
      "EditedText": "A number of members of the committee have suggested that we are negative about Stirling Council. I understand that many members of the committee feel that education is best run by local authorities but I suggest that that attitude is too rigid. Nobody has told us that our school's standards are not high—we are achieving high standards. Can the committee guarantee that our standards would not only remain as they are but improve if we were to return to local authority control? If we remain as we are, I am sure that they will improve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106657",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 106657,
      "EditedText": "Why would you not be committed to the school, if Stirling Council ran it?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106659",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
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      "EditedText": "You would still be parents of the children at the school, though."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106661",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 106661,
      "EditedText": "I want to wind up this part of the meeting but I will allow brief points from Cathy Peattie and Nicola Sturgeon."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106667",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
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      "EditedText": "I will respond to the second point. It cannot be denied that the minute we are returned to local authority control, we will lose nearly 14 per cent of our grant. No organisation can lose 14 per cent of its money without that having a huge impact. It does not matter whether one is part of a quality assurance programme or whatever—if one loses 14 per cent of one's money, the only way in which to make the budget balance would be to get rid of people. That fact is quantifiable, and no one will tell us: \"Don't worry about it. You can just keep that money for devolved school management.\" Can you repeat your first point?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C106672",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  {
    "ID": "C106673",
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      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
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      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. Do committee members have any questions?"
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      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 106677,
      "EditedText": "I want to get straight down to the nitty-gritty—funding. If you want to be part of a pluralist education system in Scotland and to get funding from the state, there will always be basic standards—laid down by the state—that you will have to meet. Do you think that you will have to conform to such an extent that you might lose much of what Steiner education offers?In Ireland, you have just about achieved status within the education system, but that will depend entirely on two things—the teaching of Irish and the fact that there is a graduate-entry teaching profession. At the moment, Steiner in Ireland is not able to offer that. If you want to become part of the system, the system will probably demand changes of you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson (Aberdeen Waldorf School): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 106679,
      "EditedText": "We feel that the performance indicators are important but only a small facet of education, which is much broader. The indicators fit a mechanistic view of childhood and picture of education. If teaching is seen as being about imparting knowledge and skills, and children are viewed as empty buckets who need to be filled with that knowledge and skill, performance indicators can be used to tell whether children are retaining what is being put into them. Government policy at the moment seems to view children as empty buckets, but anyone who has ever had a child knows that they are not. They come with many talents and skills and a love of all sorts of things. We see it as our job as teachers to ignite the fire that is a love of learning that lasts a lifetime. We do not therefore put the same emphasis on performance indicators as the Government does. We would be happy to be measured, but by our own timings and with our own yardstick, so that we start from a level playing field. We have documents that we can leave here that tell you about our aims and methods and about quality development. To answer your question about graduate entry teaching, in the Aberdeen Waldorf school, 80 per cent of our staff are graduates and have state teaching qualifications and—if necessary—could be registered with the General Teaching Council tomorrow. A similar proportion of staff has both state teaching and Steiner Waldorf qualifications. I am one of those—I am a former state school teacher who has become a Steiner Waldorf teacher. I do not think that we have a problem with the graduate question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 106680,
      "EditedText": "You answered in relation to Aberdeen; does the same apply to the other three schools?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 106681,
      "EditedText": "Because having a state teaching qualification is not essential for being a Steiner Waldorf teacher, the proportions will fluctuate between schools; they will not necessarily be the same."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Farquharson (Edinburgh Rudolf Steiner School): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 106682,
      "EditedText": "I cannot give you an exact figure for graduates in Edinburgh, but it is probably also about 80 per cent. We do not have the same percentage of state trained teachers, but those who do not have state training have the Steiner Waldorf educational qualification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 106687,
      "EditedText": "It is also important for the committee and the Executive to understand the stress that having to comply with these performance indicators puts on children. My question would be, what are we trying to do to children? The Mental Health Foundation has just published a booklet called \"The Big Picture\". It states that\"one in five people, aged from four to twenty, is estimated to suffer from mental stress.\"It talks about the stress that children experience in schools. Why are we stressing our children? Ultimately we will have to pay for that through health, or perhaps they will end up in young offender institutions because they cannot cope. We must nourish children in the right way and meet their needs in the right way. The performance indicators will not give us what we need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 106688,
      "EditedText": "As a former teacher, I want to know a little more about what makes your curriculum distinctive. What different types of teaching approaches do you have?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 106691,
      "EditedText": "Are you talking about teacher quality?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 106692,
      "EditedText": "How do you ensure that the teacher is skilled enough to deliver the curriculum?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 106694,
      "EditedText": "One of the problems in mainstream schools is dealing with children with special needs and those with behavioural disorders. How do you deal with such children in your schools?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Farquharson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 106702,
      "EditedText": "I was teaching when the HMI report came out: I was standing, nerve-wracked, when my class was sitting, writing away. We recognise that there are some weaknesses; we do not claim that we have everything perfect. We are continually working on it. The phrase we like to use is quality development—trying to increase the quality of what we do. Before HMI came, we were working on assessment and other areas. We have changed, or are in the process of changing, some of the areas that HMI identified, including the main lesson structure and the lower school curriculum. It was said that perhaps not enough time was spent on the literacy hour or the numeracy hour, but literacy and numeracy are integrated in lessons throughout the day, so that was not clearly defined for HMI to see. In Edinburgh, we have now extended our main lesson time specifically to cover what it suggested. We are always trying to get the other areas that were assessed in the report as fair up to the next level—I cannot remember what it is called. We expect a return visit from the inspectorate any time now. We have things in hand, but we are aware that we are not perfect in every area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Catriona Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 106703,
      "EditedText": "As chair of the trustees, I met the inspectors at a meeting to discuss the draft. It is said to be possible to have changes made at the draft stage: it is actually impossible. At the last conference for governors and trustees that I attended, Archie McGlynn told the audience what a fantastic school ours is—it was interesting how that came out. From our point of view, and from that of many schools, inspections provide a learning experience. They can help identify weaknesses; improvements can be made. We appreciated some of the weaknesses being identified. As trustees, it is our job to ensure that the management of the school is implementing what HMI is asking for and identifying. There have also been specific changes in learning support. We have worked hard over the past year and a half to change or improve in specific areas. However, there is a point at which—almost like the question that Fiona McLeod asked earlier—we start to talk a different language. When I was in that meeting, we were talking a different language. We sat talking to the inspector, who drew up the five to 14 guidelines on what is good about a main lesson.When we received the report, although we appreciated the fact that it identified some weaknesses that we wanted to address, we also took with a pinch of salt what was said. If a main lesson block lasts four weeks, it is impossible for an inspector who comes in for only one day to assess it and tick the boxes authoritatively. However, we could not get anywhere with that argument, which is why—in answer to the earlier question—I said that, although some areas would be the same for assessment, we would have to be measured against ourselves and what targets we can meet. The inspection was fair in some ways but unrealistic in others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Farquharson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 106704,
      "EditedText": "We used their criteria on the inspectors as well, and agreed that their inspection was fair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 106705,
      "EditedText": "You have already mentioned your response to the General Teaching Council and the HMI inspection. I take it that you would be willing to find a solution that would make HMI and the GTC happy and comfortable with your becoming part of the state sector. The witnesses are nodding, which I take as a yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Farquharson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 106708,
      "EditedText": "We have not had talks with the GTC, but we have made preliminary inquiries, which are on-going. We have not come up with anything concrete on that issue, however, but we would have no objection to such discussions.In Edinburgh, we have not talked with state sector schools specifically about management, and I do not think that any of our other schools have done so. We talk to state sector schools all the time about education and learning issues, but not necessarily about management. To do so was a good suggestion, for which I thank you.What was the other question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Farquharson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 106710,
      "EditedText": "As Betty alluded to earlier, our schools are managed on a non-hierarchical basis. The teachers who have been there at least a year have equal responsibility for the running of the school. I was introduced as the chairman of the group that is known as the college; every year someone is—in effect—elected to be its chairman. Fortunately—or unfortunately—it is my turn this year. We would have to think seriously about that, and discuss it frequently, if that was to change fundamentally. However, on a day-to-day basis, each school runs a small group—which is called the management group at the Edinburgh school—which decides the major policy of the school and the nitty-gritty management stuff, and reports back to the college. In effect, there is a head teacher, except that it is three people. Some Steiner schools are advertising for educational managers, who—considering the job description—would be very much like head teachers, but who would be responsible to the college. We would explore those issues and think seriously about them. We would not say, \"We do it this way. Therefore, that is the only way.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 106713,
      "EditedText": "I think that you have covered it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 106714,
      "EditedText": "The second question was about how you would deal with expansion, should that arise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 106716,
      "EditedText": "It occurs to me that there might be a difficulty if, say, growth in Edinburgh was such that a second school was needed. That could lead to the setting up of catchment areas—something that local authorities are very familiar with. At the moment catchment areas are unnecessary because your four schools are disparate and do not take people by selection. What I am describing would be a problem of success; no doubt, you would rather face that than the problems of failure. However, it is something that you might have to discuss with local authorities.Do you have any thoughts about catchment areas and the impact that they might have, even now? People might notice that they were living somewhere in Edinburgh that allowed them to send their children to a Rudolf Steiner school whose performance in league tables was better than that of their local school. You could find that there was a growth in applications almost immediately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 106721,
      "EditedText": "We have found that for entry into further education, colleges, universities and so on, our children will also be accepted on a portfolio, because people recognise that they are very creative thinkers, are very independent, and have a love of learning.At its 44th international conference, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation invited Steiner Waldorf schools to hold an exhibition and to share their practice. I have a quote here from a UNESCO booklet, from Dr Arthur Zajonc of Amherst College in the United States. He said that, by the time Steiner Waldorf students\"reach us at the college and university levels, these students are grounded broadly and deeply and have a remarkable enthusiasm for learning.\"In Australia, one can be admitted to a university medicine course on the strength of a portfolio from a Steiner Waldorf school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 106724,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy Baird spoke about cross-fertilisation, but that means that there is a two-way process."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy Baird: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 106725,
      "EditedText": "I was going to add that to what Betty said. We are not saying that we have all the answers. There is much in the state sector that we could learn from. We would like the two systems to coexist on a par with each other. That would raise the standard of Scottish education, because ideas would be out in the open and would be discussed, instead of us being seen as an elitist private or independent school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 106733,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that time is catching up with us. I will take a final question from Ken Macintosh."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 106734,
      "EditedText": "Like Ian, I welcome the holistic and pluralistic attitude to teaching in the education system that you say would accept Steiner teaching, particularly at kindergarten level on which there is much debate. There is a lot to be said for postponing formal education until the age of six or seven.You want to amend section 8(a) of the proposed bill, which is about inspections. Am I reading this correctly? You think that you should not be inspected by HMI, but only by people who are accredited by Steiner Waldorf."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy Baird: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 106737,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 106739,
      "EditedText": "I understand that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 106754,
      "EditedText": "That is rather worrying. If the consultation process is to end in late January or early February, April is not far away if the Executive decides to proceed. I certainly support the convener's idea of inviting the ministers to write to us or to appear before the committee as witnesses. We should also write either to all the schools or to a representative body of the schools, to ask about the time scale. We can discuss the change of funding separately and in a more dispassionate way, but the timing particularly concerns me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 106758,
      "EditedText": "Gillian, would you like to give us an outline of the timetable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 106759,
      "EditedText": "We still do not know the timetable for the bill, because the bill has not yet been introduced. If, as we expect, it is published in January, stage 1 would be complete by the written evidence deadline, but stage 2 would barely have begun. There will therefore be an opportunity for the clerks and the information centre to take from the written evidence the information that is relevant to the committee's consideration of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 106760,
      "EditedText": "So that information may not be available at stage 1, but it will be available at stage 2."
    },
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  {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 106764,
      "EditedText": "That is a helpful answer. However, amendments at stage 2 might be ruled out of order if they challenged the principles of the bill. An amendment that challenged the principles of the bill would be deemed a wrecking amendment, as the principles would already have been passed at stage 1. We may fall foul of the slip in the time scale, and I do not see how we could do anything about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 106768,
      "EditedText": "We are nothing if not ambitious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 106772,
      "EditedText": "We need to discuss that now. We previously discussed the possibility of appointing an adviser to assist us with the inquiry. My understanding—and Gillian may correct me—is that we have to approach the Parliamentary Bureau for permission to do that, although, at this stage, we do not have to identify any individual or organisation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 106784,
      "EditedText": "Any request to the bureau would therefore have to straddle two financial years. The bureau does not make the financial decisions—that is for the SPCB—but it has to make the administrative decisions. Gillian Baxendine is right to say that the bureau has no involvement in the decision on who the person will be, but a well-structured application that considers the use of resources across the two financial years would be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 106787,
      "EditedText": "I would be disappointed if the Scottish Executive, or the Parliament, went down the road of simply appointing consultants every time a special adviser was needed. I would much prefer short-term secondments to be considered as another possibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 106788,
      "EditedText": "I think that great care would have to be taken that the organisation from which the person was seconded did not have a material interest in the outcome of the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 106794,
      "EditedText": "I am happy for members to do that. I assume that everyone has managed to attend at least one school. Is that correct?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 106796,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2166,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 106801,
      "EditedText": "If we want to discuss submissions then, they will need to be with the clerk before the recess. That gives members next week to do them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C106802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2166,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 106802,
      "EditedText": "Can we discuss them at the second meeting after the recess?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106804",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 106804,
      "EditedText": "I am happy for members to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 106812,
      "EditedText": "If the committee makes substantive decisions in private session, they will be recorded in the formal minute of proceedings. If you mean that you want a record of points made in the discussion, I can do a clerk's minute, which can be circulated to members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 106599,
      "EditedText": "What guarantees did you ask him for?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 106603,
      "EditedText": "Clearly, one of your concerns is not the potential closure of the school but its potential transformation from a primary school into a pre-school centre. Did you discuss that with the director of education?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106668",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 106668,
      "EditedText": "I made a factual point about the capacity of the school in relation to the current roll, which would have a bearing on any future closure decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106701",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 106701,
      "EditedText": "Fiona McLeod identified one of the biggest challenges: how to retain your ethos while meeting the requirements that a local authority and the Executive would undoubtedly ask you to meet.I have been looking through the latest HMI report on the Edinburgh Steiner school, dated 1998. The report identifies a number of things that HMI considers it only fair to say about the school—some strengths but also important weaknesses. In the report, the things listed under the category of fair include the structure of the curriculum in the lower school and assessment as part of teaching. The next two things relate to what you have just been talking about, Elizabeth: effectiveness of learning support and implementation of special educational needs legislation. Do you think that the criticisms are fair? If not, why not? Does that reflect on the HMI's methodology? If you agree that they are fair criticisms, what action have you taken since the report came out to rectify some of the weaknesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 106600,
      "EditedText": "We asked him to guarantee continuity of the school, first. He was not able to give us that guarantee. We asked him for continuity of funding. He was not able to give us that guarantee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106590",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch (St Mary's Episcopal Primary School, Dunblane): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 106590,
      "EditedText": "Cath Prescott is the head teacher at St Mary's; Paul Nelson is an elected parent on the board of management and the chairman of the school's finance committee; Gordon Scott is the vice-chairman of the board and an elected parent. I am an elected parent and the chairman of the board of St Mary's.I would like to thank the committee for inviting representatives of the board of St Mary's to give evidence on how we believe the improvement in Scottish education bill will impact on our school. Eight of the 32 sections of the bill relate exclusively to the removal of the self-governing legislation. Its removal will hand the management of our school to Stirling Council.The board recognises that the concept of self-governing schools is politically and ideologically unacceptable to many members of the Parliament. In practice, however, it has been the ability of the school to manage its own affairs over the past four years which has made it so successful. The board of St Mary's is committed to the principles outlined in the foreword of \"Improving our Schools\", the consultation document on the improvement in Scottish education bill: to raise standards; to be responsive to local needs; to\"give every child the best start in life so that they can have the best opportunity for life\";to involve parents and the local community in the school; and to aim for \"excellence in schools and never accept second best.\"Why does the board believe that the school is succeeding? As was highlighted in the latest publication by the education statistics division, 97 per cent of our children attained the appropriate five to 14 level for reading, as compared to 73 per cent for Scotland and 74 for Stirling district. The figure for writing was 97 per cent for our pupils, compared with 60 per cent for Scotland and 62 per cent for Stirling district. Our figure for mathematics was 97 per cent, compared with 76 per cent for Scotland and 77 per cent for Stirling district.Our children are realising their academic potential. We are a positively socially inclusive school. The children have a wide variety of social, physical and emotional challenges. The child is at the centre of all our decision making. We are highly responsive to local needs, our board is widely represented by the community of Dunblane, and we are more accountable than most schools because parents and staff elect the majority of board members. Our costs are low. The cost per pupil is significantly less than the average for other comparable primary schools. Our school is at capacity, and we have a long waiting list at almost all stages. We believe that our success is due to our ability to manage our affairs unhindered by local authority interference and bureaucracy and free to make our own decisions.We are not funded preferentially, but we are free to use our resources where we feel the need is greatest, for example, in the funding of increased staffing for support for learning. That gives teachers, pupils, parents and board members a communal feeling of ownership, which fosters a strong sense of ethos, allegiance, pride and responsibility.St Mary's is a small school with only three composite primary classes and a nursery, yet, by any yardstick, our school is highly successful, and offers parents a choice, which many have taken. The board realises that the self-governing legislation will be removed, but is it logical, sensible and right to undermine a school which is succeeding so well?The Minister for Children and Education, in the foreword to the consultation document, states:\"Education will be our highest priority with the stated intention of earning a world class reputation for the Scottish education system.\"We believe that the removal of St Mary's ability to manage its own affairs will lead to a lowering of standards. Aside from the increase in bureaucracy, the handover of a substantial part of our funding to Stirling Council would undoubtedly lead to cuts in staff, which would, in turn, lead to a worse adult-pupil ratio. That would result in less support for those who need it most. Ultimately, it will be the children who suffer, especially those children with special educational needs.The Scottish Executive can, however, achieve its stated aim of removing the self-governing legislation, while allowing our school to manage its own affairs, by giving us grant-aided status such as is presently enjoyed, with great success, by Jordanhill School in Glasgow. We believe that such a solution would recognise and support the success that is St Mary's, and yet be politically acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 106598,
      "EditedText": "Shortly after the general election, the Scottish Office asked us to discuss the school's position with Gordon Jeyes, the director of education of Stirling Council. He was not able to give us any guarantees whatsoever about the future of the school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 106610,
      "EditedText": "That has never been discussed by the board. That has never been on our agenda. We are a highly successful state school. Nobody has come to us so far and told us that we are not successful according to the various criteria that have been established by the Scottish Executive or anybody else. Nobody disputes that we are a successful school. We are a state school. We do not charge. Our admissions policy is standard. There is no examination to enter the school. We have a normal cross-section of children in the school. We have no wish to be a non-state school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 106611,
      "EditedText": "We could go further, and say that we are proud to be a state school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 106616,
      "EditedText": "To a degree it does, but do you accept that Stirling Council must consider how to deal with the whole population? Do you further agree that, if your school was part of the system and the council was in control, the council would be able to think about providing places in St Mary's if there were a need for extra school places? The council would be able to take a strategic overview."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 106617,
      "EditedText": "We are part of the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 106619,
      "EditedText": "We have regular contact with Stirling Council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 106620,
      "EditedText": "It does not sound very regular."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 106621,
      "EditedText": "We must have regular contact, because, as you are aware, Stirling Council has certain statutory responsibilities. We regularly consult the council on issues such as transport and special educational needs. The head teacher of St Mary's also has regular meetings with other head teachers and with officials from the education authority. Discussions go on all the time. If there was a problem with educational provision in the area and Stirling Council felt that we ought to be involved in solving that, there would be no problem in including St Mary's. We welcome discussions at any time. The difference is in how our school is managed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 106622,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Executive is fond of pilots for this or that initiative. St Mary's is not a pilot for an initiative, but is the result of a change in education legislation. However, if it was treated as a pilot for greater devolved management, what lessons have been learned that might be applied to other schools?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 106626,
      "EditedText": "You have mentioned the fact that Dunblane is expanding. Do you have any plans for changes to the school in terms of teacher numbers in future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 106627,
      "EditedText": "Indeed we do. In May 1999, the board put a proposal to what is now the Scottish Executive to expand St Mary's teaching staff by employing a primary 1 teacher and creating a reception class of 12 or 13 pupils. That would be of benefit because more attention could be paid to earlier intervention, class sizes could be smoothed out from primary 2 to primary 6, the school roll would be increased from 66 to 88 and overall costs per pupil would be further reduced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alistair McCulloch: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 106628,
      "EditedText": "At one of our regular development meetings, the head teacher expressed concern about the fact that the composite infant class was growing. The situation was becoming difficult because a number of the children in that class had a variety of needs.We are managing, but it is always possible to improve. The head teacher's view—based on some studies that have appeared recently—was that a favourable teacher-pupil ratio at an early stage has great spin-off benefits in literacy and numeracy later on. She suggested that if we could get funding for a fourth teacher to teach only primary 1—which would be a smaller class—not only would that lead to more pupils, and hence to a lower cost per pupil, but it would give the children who need it the terrific start that would benefit them later on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 106629,
      "EditedText": "In one classroom, we have currently three different year groups. The fourth teacher would help to bring that down to two year groups per class all the way through the school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106631",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cath Prescott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 106631,
      "EditedText": "The support-for-learning teacher would go back to doing what she did before—working one morning every two weeks instead of one whole day per week. We have 10 support for learning hours for a boy in my class with Asperger's syndrome. At the moment I am talking to Stirling Council about increasing those hours, because I feel that the child needs them—he can be very disruptive. In the meantime, the board has made provision in our budget for extra hours of one-to-one teaching for the child. We would not be able to do that under Stirling Council. We might have to tell the parents that we cannot continue with the placement, because if Stirling Council does not increase the number of SLA hours that it gives us, we cannot fund them from our budget. That has a direct impact on a child with special needs.In another case, Stirling Council felt that a child in our nursery had profound problems that meant that he needed to be placed at a unit attached to a mainstream school. The parents fought against that, and he is now in the same class. He is doing fine—he is progressing intellectually and socially.We need the extra hours for those children, but we would not be able to pay for those hours out of our budget if we were with Stirling Council because we would have no say in what we fund—no flexibility or leeway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 106635,
      "EditedText": "May I comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 106641,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry; I was talking about discussions with councillors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 106653,
      "EditedText": "No member of the committee has questioned the function that you perform or the standards that you achieve. You should not assume that the committee is coming at this issue from any particular standpoint. The point of inviting witnesses such as you to the committee is to have discussions about the issue. Please do not assume that members have already made up their minds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 106658,
      "EditedText": "We would not have the authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 106660,
      "EditedText": "Our parents are committed to the school—our parents association is also extremely committed and will continue to be so. However, we would not have the authority and the responsibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C106662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 106662,
      "EditedText": "There is no question of the witnesses' commitment, which has been demonstrated by what has happened so far. It might have been helpful to have had someone present this morning from Stirling Council—it is difficult in the council's absence to discuss what might happen to the school. If we consider this matter further, we must involve the council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 106670,
      "EditedText": "I will answer the question on devolved school management.The Scottish Executive's target for devolved school management is that 85 per cent of educational expenditure is to be devolved to schools. According to the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy rating review, the current average for Scotland is 71 per cent. Therefore, councils are falling behind by some 14 per cent. The projections for this year raise the average to 73 per cent, which means that 27 per cent of educational expenditure—some £700 million—is not devolved to schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 106671,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for answering our questions today—we found your evidence helpful. When the bill is returned to the committee, we will discuss this issue further. As Cathy Peattie said, it might have been useful to have had someone from Stirling Council here to comment on the situation. We may wish to pursue that further and, if so, we will keep you informed. I will suspend the meeting for a couple of minutes, while we change over the witnesses. I ask members not to disappear, as I will be starting again soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy Baird (Steiner Waldorf Schools for Curriculum Choice in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 106675,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. Andy Farquharson is acting chairman of the Edinburgh Rudolf Steiner School, and an upper school teacher of geography. Elizabeth Henderson is a teacher in the lower school at Aberdeen Waldorf School, and a parent of a child there. Mike Palmer is a civil servant, but is here as the parent of a child at the Edinburgh Rudolf Steiner School. Catriona Watt, too, is a parent of a child at the Edinburgh Rudolf Steiner School, where she is also chair of the trustees. I am the parent of three children at the Edinburgh Rudolf Steiner School. Thank you for inviting us to give evidence. We are very encouraged by the policy of open consultation, which allows people such as us to be so directly involved. We are here as teachers or parents of children at the Steiner Waldorf schools in Scotland. We ask the committee to support our proposed amendments to the improvement in Scottish education bill. Those amendments would enable the Scottish Parliament to support actively the principle of pluralism in education by including Steiner Waldorf schools in the maintained sector. That principle has received considerable support from MSPs of all parties. We will hold an all-party parliamentary launch on 19 January.Steiner Waldorf education has existed since 1919. The Edinburgh Rudolf Steiner School has been here for 60 years and, with the schools in Aberdeen, Glasgow and Forres, forms part of a network of 780 schools in more than 50 countries. It is the fastest-growing education system in the world, as more and more countries recognise its unique qualities. In many of those countries, including in most of Europe, Steiner Waldorf education is funded by the state. It is a proven and validated system of education and, as such, offers a complementary alternative that enriches each country's school provision.In Scotland, the schools have hitherto been part of the independent sector and have received no funding. However, we are part of the independent sector by default and not by volition. We do not wish to be part of the independent sector. We strongly believe that there is a place for Steiner Waldorf education within the maintained sector, as happens in most of Europe.The schools are non-selective and non-denominational, and it is their stated aim to be open to all children whose parents wish them to go. Currently, however, there are parents whose children are excluded on financial grounds alone, and attempts to ensure equity of access are made to the detriment of teachers' salaries, which are considerably lower than those in the state sector.Steiner Waldorf schools deliver high academic standards. They also foster in their pupils all the key qualities that are promoted in the education bill. They do so through their unique holistic curriculum and approach to teaching. The curriculum is extremely broad and provides—for all pupils—a balance of the academic, the artistic and the practical, which promotes in children of all abilities the less easily measurable qualities of self-confidence, a fully rounded outlook, emotional balance and enthusiasm for learning. Those are goals that the bill aims to achieve but does not specifically address.The Steiner Waldorf curriculum and approach to teaching offers a fresh perspective on education; we seek recognition and support for that curriculum. Such a move would bring the following advantages to Scotland: it would promote social justice for parents who are currently excluded by their inability to pay; it would bring us into line with most countries in Europe where pluralism is already well established and respected; it would stimulate educational research and debate and allow Scotland to take the lead in educational thinking in the United Kingdom; and—most important of all—it would create the possibility of a fruitful partnership with mainstream education, so that best practice could be shared and ideas cross-fertilised.Scotland has a tradition of enlightened education. The inclusion of Steiner Waldorf schools in the maintained sector would continue that tradition. It would contribute much to securing improvement in Scottish education and so deserves to take its place in the bill. As Dr Joseph Weizenbaum, a professor at Massachusetts  Institute of Technology in the United States, says:\"Being personally acquainted with a number of Waldorf students, I can say that they come closer to realising their own potentials than practically anyone I know.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Palmer (Steiner Waldorf Schools for Curriculum Choice in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 106678,
      "EditedText": "We recognise that we need to be accountable for our expenditure of public money if we are funded by the state. We therefore fully accept that we need to measure up to performance indicators to satisfy local authorities. We recognise that the Government makes certain demands of local authorities and that that is as it should be.We feel that the performance indicators that look only at academic attainments are relatively narrow and mechanistic but, in the 5 to 14 age range, we feel extremely confident that we can deliver satisfactory results, although at a slightly different age.We would ask that there be some variation in the age at which pupils are expected to attain the various levels of performance. We feel that, by the time they reached their teenage years, our pupils could deliver on those indicators without any problem—indeed, that they would be above average compared with pupils from state schools. We are trying to foster a much wider vision of educational development. We would like to go beyond the fairly narrow performance indicators that we sense are being concentrated on in the draft bill. Perhaps Betty can say a bit more about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy Baird: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 106683,
      "EditedText": "We are beginning to make representations with the GTC. It is a case of the will to be slightly different. It is helpful to look at models abroad to see how they address the problem. In New Zealand, for example, where there is 100 per cent funding for Steiner Waldorf schools, if the teacher is not state trained but is already working in a Steiner Waldorf school, the state will assess them after two years of teaching and register them retrospectively, based on their obvious quality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Catriona Watt (Edinburgh Steiner Schools Trustees): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 106684,
      "EditedText": "We appreciate the concerns about accountability; if money is being given to schools to be in the state system, there have to be rules and regulations about how we perform. Some of those rules and regulations will be mechanistic—exams and so on—and, following on from what Mike said, we would want to discuss further exactly how we would be measured. There would be no point in joining the system to be the same as other schools. Our argument is that we want to come in to be an alternative. There is a point at which we would have to say that we are different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 106685,
      "EditedText": "That is what I was trying to get at. How much of your ethos would you be prepared to shift on? We talked about performance indicators. We learned only last night that we may have dates on which children will be tested from a young age. That goes against your ethos. You will have to persuade us, or perhaps not all of us but the Executive, that there are other ways of measuring performance."
    },
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  },
  {
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Catriona Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 106686,
      "EditedText": "We have thought about that issue and discussed it in meetings with civil servants and directors of education, for example. We have experienced an HM inspectors of schools inspection and we do not see that there is any reason why we cannot negotiate with HMI and other appropriate bodies to have specific criteria against which the Steiner schools are measured. It should perhaps be done at a different age or in a different way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy Baird: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 106689,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that we have enough time to cover that as there are so many differences. One that springs to mind is that formal education is delayed until the age of six. The kindergarten, or nursery stage, is from three until six, which is in line with mainstream practice on the continent. Languages are introduced at the age of six. Two modern languages are taught. The curriculum is much more holistic. A class teacher will follow the class for eight years—from the age of six until 14—and will teach what is called the main lesson, which is a block of nearly two hours. That two-hour lesson takes place every morning. It allows the class to study a subject for that length of time for three or four weeks at a time. For example, they might have a main lesson on building when they are nine years old and then they might have a main lesson in, for example, English—studying particular poems. There are main lessons in surveying further up the school. That system allows much greater in-depth study than is the norm. It also allows the class teacher to make connections across the curriculum. As they are following all the subjects and going through the different years, they can help the children to see the connections. When children go into the upper school, they stop having the class teacher and have a guardian, who is responsible for their social welfare for four years. In the upper school, the main lesson system continues, with the result that regardless of their exam specialisation, all the children—because there are mixed ability classes in the main lesson blocks throughout the school—have an extremely broad curriculum of sciences, artistic subjects and craftwork. Therefore, when they leave school they have studied topics such as history of drama, history of architecture, history of arts, sciences, languages, craftwork, metalwork, pottery and woodwork. It is a very broad, cultured education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106690",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 106690,
      "EditedText": "What about the teacher and the teaching approaches? Are you confident that you can guarantee a high degree of skill? How do you monitor teaching quality?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106693",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 106693,
      "EditedText": "In our school we have a mentoring system—more experienced teachers share their knowledge with new teachers on an individual basis. A new teacher meets their mentor once a week to discuss what is happening in the classroom. The mentor keeps tabs on how the children and the teacher are doing. We also have a college of teachers—we run the school as a group. If anyone is having problems, we try to help. We have our own in-service training and sometimes we take part in local authority service training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8245663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106696",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Farquharson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
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      "EditedText": "Although Betty is mainly talking from the Aberdeen perspective, the situation is similar in all the schools."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C106698",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
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      "EditedText": "We recognise that children have multiple intelligences—we took that approach before it became a catchphrase. We recognise that children have many things to offer that go beyond literacy and numeracy skills. Last night I spoke to Mike Palmer about doing geometry in my class. We try to bring beauty and form together in everything that we do. I taught my class of 10-year-olds how to use compasses and to divide a circle into many different parts. I then encouraged them to bring beauty to the form, teaching them how to shade and use colour to make the form dynamic."
    },
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 106699,
      "EditedText": "I am just showing my doodle to the rest of the committee—it is remarkably similar."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
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      "EditedText": "Yet without the colour.One of the children said that they could not get the hang of the shading. I picked up two books and held them up to show the children how to do it. One of the children at the back of the class asked whose books I had picked up. I gave the names of the two children and the class burst into spontaneous applause. I had to stop for a moment, to ask myself what had just happened.I realised that I had picked up the books of the two dyslexic children in my class. The other children, recognising the struggles that they have, celebrated the fact that they could produce such beautiful work. That is what our education is also about: recognising and respecting other individuals and their self-worth."
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
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      "EditedText": "This is not so much a question as an observation. If you were to come into the state sector, you may find that, given that there is no cost disincentive to parents, you might need to expand. That might mean not only expansion to your existing schools, but that there would be a demand for schools to be set up where they do not currently exist. It strikes me that the committee should consider that issue. You should perhaps consider discussing that not just with individual local authorities, but with the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland, because it would have an impact throughout Scotland. I presume that you have not done that yet, but it is something that you could do."
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Palmer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 106712,
      "EditedText": "We had a meeting with the director of education at the City of Edinburgh Council. The message we got was that the council would be content to enter into negotiations with us about taking over the school and including it in mainstream provision. We did not get into detail about the trade-offs that might be necessary for that to happen; the council said that it could not begin to consider that until the Executive had indicated that it was happy to encourage more pluralistic schools provision in local authorities. We are here today because of the signal that was given to us by the council. We felt that we needed to go to people like yourselves and, via yourselves, to the Executive, to endorse the principle of pluralism. Our understanding is that, having done that, we will be in a much better position to go to local authorities and that they will feel that they can engage with us in the practical nitty-gritty—which they do not feel at the moment. I can sympathise with them on that. Sorry, what was your second question?"
    },
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Palmer: ",
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      "EditedText": "We have thought about that. One of the reasons we are here is that many parents are excluded from sending their children to our schools because they do not have the financial resources to do so. We would expect an increase in demand, but we feel that any increase could be managed in a controlled fashion. That could be done in a number of ways. One could, for example, treat the four schools that exist in Scotland at the moment as pilot schools and use their experience over the next few years as the basis for an admissions policy that would enable us to manage demand. We have not looked into the details of the admissions policy that would be necessary. However, one of things that strikes us about the management issue and many other practical issues is that this has been done many times before overseas. There is great deal of best practice from which we can learn, not only on the continent of Europe but in Commonwealth countries whose approach to education is similar to the one that is taken in these islands.The short answer to your question is that this is one of those practical, nitty-gritty issues that we would get down to with the local authorities once the principle of state funding had been established."
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  {
    "ID": "C106718",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy Baird: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 106718,
      "EditedText": "The teachers at Edinburgh Rudolf Steiner School have been considering the possibility, if there were an increase in demand, of setting up a school in an area such as Pilton for children who are less advantaged than those that come to the Colinton site.I would like to broaden the discussion a little. As Mike was implying, we are focusing very much on the nitty-gritty, which I can understand, but the bill is about securing improvement in Scottish education. One of the things that people often do is look to Europe and other countries to serve as a benchmark for Scottish education. It is important to realise that in virtually all countries in Europe—bar five, including Britain—Steiner Waldorf education is funded by the state. In Holland, for example, schools receive 100 per cent of funding for running costs and the local education authority meets their capital costs. Holland has 96 Steiner Waldorf schools and they are generally recognised as having a very high standard of education. In Denmark, similarly, 80 per cent of running costs are met. In Sweden, where there are 39 schools, the figure is 100 per cent. In Finland, where there are 18 schools, there is 100 per cent state funding. In Norway, there is 85 per cent state funding.You can see that the countries that are often held up as examples of good standards have pluralism and state-supported Steiner Waldorf schools. The spin-off is that the ideas and methodology that are used in Steiner Waldorf are fed out. We can share, and people can learn from what we do. There is too much to go into now, but those of you who have visited the schools may understand their uniqueness, which is effective for children of all abilities. It is important to underline the fact that children of all abilities, and not just academic children, come to Steiner Waldorf schools. They all leave school with self-confidence, a sense of self-worth and an ability to think creatively, which is thanks in part to the artistic element of the curriculum. Business now recognises that those qualities are far more important than meeting a percentage of the performance indicators. That is why we are here."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106719",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
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      "EditedText": "In countries where the schools are fully funded, what has been the experience of tension between the Steiner Waldorf approach and a national system of examination and accreditation?"
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    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106722",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 106722,
      "EditedText": "You have just covered some of what I wanted to say. I am interested in the idea of pluralism. I particularly enjoyed the way in which you dealt with children in the kindergarten. As nursery education for three and four-year-olds is becoming statutory it seems to me there is a danger of people starting to teach kids to read in nursery schools at the age of three to four. There is a place for a different philosophy somewhere in a state system to allow us to see it in action.There is a debate to be had about early education. At the moment Steiner Waldorf schools are not seen as part of mainstream thinking, so the debate is not being conducted in the proper terms. Therefore, I would be interested in drawing in Steiner schools in some way as pilots or models. We should let the two sides inform each other in the debate. I am less convinced by some of the practices for older children, but more so by your ideas of where we start: starting languages early, and so on. Many things will not be discussed by state schools until you are seen as part of the mainstream."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 106726,
      "EditedText": "You said that nations provide different levels of funding. What level of funding would be good for you? Would 50 per cent be good?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy Baird: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 106727,
      "EditedText": "Given that the average wage for a full-time Steiner Waldorf teacher, no matter how many years of experience they have, is £12,000, we would be grateful for anything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 106729,
      "EditedText": "I should declare that I am a member of the Educational Institute of Scotland. I do not support a lot of its thinking on many things, but I am horrified that people are earning only £12,000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 106730,
      "EditedText": "But it is the only way that we have been able to exist."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy Baird: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 106735,
      "EditedText": "No. We have never drafted amendments before. We suggest that as part of the HMI team there should be a representative from the Steiner Waldorf Schools Fellowship in London, which is the crediting body that has prepared the levels of attainment, or the Scottish Association of Steiner Waldorf Education, which is the Scottish branch of that body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Farquharson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 106738,
      "EditedText": "One of the difficulties with the HMI inspection in Edinburgh was that even though we spoke to the inspectors prior to the inspection about the aims, philosophy and so on of the school, the work load of HMI means that it is hard for them to take in the information"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Farquharson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 106740,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult at times. It would be good to have someone who knows what we are trying to say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 106741,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. You are not locking HMI out of the schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy Baird: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 106742,
      "EditedText": "No, not at all.Perhaps we should amend the amendments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Palmer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 106743,
      "EditedText": "The aim is to help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Catriona Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 106747,
      "EditedText": "No. We are the main school. We have been in Edinburgh for 60 years, so we are longer established than the other schools, and our pupils range from three to 18, which is not the case in any of the other schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 106749,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for answering our questions. As you have heard, we will be considering the draft bill when it is returned to us by the Executive, and we will keep you informed about our deliberations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 106751,
      "EditedText": "I have read the paper all the way through and there are a number of points that I would like to mention. I still foresee a difficulty that I have spoken about before. One of the recommendations that the Scottish Executive has already accepted is for a change to the funding method for the national centres of excellence. The Executive is quite entitled to accept that recommendation, but I am concerned that it has already decided to make that change from 1 April next year—before this committee will have reached any conclusions on the whole issue of special educational needs. It would be useful to invite one of the ministers to a committee meeting to explain why they are keen to move so quickly and whether it might be possible to delay that change to the funding mechanism.I have already declared an interest, in that I have lodged a members' business motion on the subject. None of the schools that will be affected by the change are in the area that I represent, and all the local authorities in my area therefore have to send children outside the area to attend those schools if they cannot be integrated into mainstream schools.Higher still was delayed, by the previous Government and by the current Administration, for two years because of genuine concern. Even then, it was phased in. If we cannot interview one of the ministers, we should have the opportunity to hear from a representative of the seven schools about the phasing in of the funding change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 106752,
      "EditedText": "Members of the committee share your concerns. Although the Executive indicated during the consultation process that the change would be implemented in April 2000, that has not been affirmed and that time scale may slip. I think that we should take up your suggestion of inviting the minister to respond, either in writing or as a witness to the committee, to our concerns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 106753,
      "EditedText": "Although the Executive has made a fairly firm proposal, it is still consulting on it and will have received representations from the schools and from other interested parties. The best time to hear from the minister might therefore be at the end of the consultation process, which will be in January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 106763,
      "EditedText": "The timetable has already slipped somewhat, so I am sure that we will be able to comment on the bill at stage 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 106765,
      "EditedText": "It is also open to the committee to take evidence specifically on special educational needs at stage 1. There is no need to wait for the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 106769,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased to hear it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 106773,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 106774,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate, Gillian, for committee members to make suggestions on advisers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 106776,
      "EditedText": "Please do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 106777,
      "EditedText": "In principle, the bureau has to give its approval before we can appoint an adviser, but it does not get involved in choosing the person who is appointed. That is a matter for the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, although the committee will want to make recommendations and influence the decision. If the committee agrees today to appoint an adviser, we can then get the agreement of the bureau and go ahead with drawing up a specification and putting together some names. The aim would be to have someone in place in time to start assisting with the written evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 106781,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 106782,
      "EditedText": "When would the adviser be required? We are setting dates for looking at written evidence, and the cost of the adviser could come mostly out of next year's budget. However, there is some money available this year, and it might useful to spend money now to allow the adviser to tee up the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 106783,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 106785,
      "EditedText": "Could Gillian Baxendine—or, as he is here, Mike Russell—tell us whether the adviser would work on a consultancy basis, or would he or she be seconded from another organisation to which we would pay the cost of the salary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106789",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 106789,
      "EditedText": "Of course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2165,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2165,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 106791,
      "EditedText": "All right. Does the committee agree to ask for permission to appoint an adviser?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2166,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 106793,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we communicate the information about our visits in written submissions. We could blether about visits for a long time. It might be more helpful to focus our thoughts in writing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106795",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2166,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 106795,
      "EditedText": "I assume that the committee is writing to the head teachers and others to thank them for generously including us in their daily rounds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106797",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 106797,
      "EditedText": "Can we club together to buy a new bucket for Darnley Primary to catch the rain that was coming through the roof?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106798",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 106798,
      "EditedText": "That shows a lack of ambition, Mike. You should be clubbing together to buy a new roof, not just a bucket."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C106800",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 106800,
      "EditedText": "It will be impossible to discuss the submissions before the holidays. I suggest that we discuss them at the first meeting after the holidays. Members: \"It's a recess.\" It is Christmas, so it is definitely a holiday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 2166,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 106803,
      "EditedText": "Technology being what it is, can we not simply e-mail one another our submissions—short or long—and copy them to the clerk?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 2166,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 106806,
      "EditedText": "We will copy the submissions to the clerk and she can record them. We will put discussion of the submissions on the agenda for the first meeting after the recess. We will agree on a date for that meeting later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 2166,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 106807,
      "EditedText": "My point is not about committee visits to schools, but neither is it about the national arts companies inquiry, which is the next agenda item, so I did not know at what other time it would be appropriate to raise it. We have just received a submission from Rudolf Steiner schools. Does the committee agree that we should write to the General Teaching Council and to Her Majesty's inspectors of schools to ask whether they have considered the changes that may need to be made to the criteria if the Executive agrees to include Rudolf Steiner schools in the maintained sector? That would be preferable to inviting them here, as we have enough to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 2166,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 106808,
      "EditedText": "That is a reasonable point, which flags up a deficiency in the way in which we handle such matters. Perhaps the committee should take a few minutes to discuss whether it wants to receive further evidence after we have taken submissions. Cathy Peattie raised a similar point about Stirling Council's input into the situation at St Mary's Episcopal Primary School. We should ask Stirling Council to comment. Similarly, we should ask the GTC to respond to us in writing about the issue that you raise, Brian. I will bear that in mind for future deputations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 2166,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 106809,
      "EditedText": "I have a few points about how we do our business. One is that we do not have a way of tracking the progress of business once we have made decisions. Two issues come to mind: Hampden and the tickets for the Scotland-England match. If we do not remember to put such matters on to the agenda a good day in advance, we do not deal with them. Could we have an agenda item for progress of business? It would be called \"matters arising\" if we had minutes, but we do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 2166,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 106810,
      "EditedText": "I know that you have discussed that matter with the clerk. We could have an item on the agenda for updates on outstanding business so that members know that issues have not been forgotten and that progress is on-going. If the committee needs a substantial update, there will be an item on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 2166,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 106811,
      "EditedText": "I am conscious that, when the committee is in private session, we do not have a report of the debate and we do not minute our decisions. That can make it difficult to revisit matters. Is there some way in which we can at least minute the decisions that are made in private?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits to Schools",
      "HeadingID": 2166,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ID": 2166,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 106815,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 12:25."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.8401918+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 106601,
      "EditedText": "There have been no further discussions with the council since the publication of the draft bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 106597,
      "EditedText": "I have visited your school and would not dispute the standards that you have achieved. We can all understand your anxiety over the fact that what you have achieved over the past few years might be undermined.In your submission, you state what you believe would happen if the school were transferred back to local authority control. Have there been any discussions between the school board and Stirling Council about the possibility of the school returning to local authority control? Have you expressed your concerns to the council and heard its views? If we are to believe that it is not in the interests of the local education authority to jeopardise high standards in any school, surely you must be able to seek reassurances from the council?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 533
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2164,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2164,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 106663,
      "EditedText": "I detected from Mr Nelson a fear that I am sure all the witnesses share—that Stirling Council's intention is eventually to close the school. The school's current roll is 66, but what is the school's capacity? Under current legislation, if a school is more than 80 per cent full, any decision on closure has to be referred to the Minister for Children and Education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 638629,
      "EditedText": "We were merely trying to institute a procedure that would help to streamline things. I think we should reply by saying that we were trying to be helpful and that we are not being critical."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 638632,
      "EditedText": "I will echo that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 638634,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Bristow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 638636,
      "EditedText": "This issue is coming to the Local Government Committee tomorrow afternoon. Perhaps we can make some comments on it there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)",
      "HeadingID": 19357,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19357,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 638637,
      "EditedText": "The fact that this matter appears to be being dealt with under legislation that might or might not be appropriate has been mentioned. It gives the laying power as section 2(4) of the Courts of Law Fees (Scotland) Act 1895. There is some doubt as to the relevance of that section, as opposed to section 40 of the Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1907. Does the committee agree that we should seek clarification on that from the Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 19358,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 19358,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 638640,
      "EditedText": "Again, there is a question as to why this was dealt with under section 2(4) of the Courts of Law Fees (Scotland) Act 1895, as opposed to section 40 of the Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1907. Will we pose the same question to the Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 638651,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that. We will have to have some guidelines. I agree with Fergus that we do not want to become bound, as Westminster might be, by something that happened in 1946 or by some foible of Henry VIII.The benefits of consolidation are significant and I see reference to that in the \"Parliament House Book\". In my legal days, I went to update a copy of the \"Parliament House Book\" without having the previous book. I realised those benefits only when I tried to update it. There is the possibility that two or three statutory instruments might be missed out, which is not satisfactory. We want to stick to our pro-consolidation position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 638653,
      "EditedText": "Can I suggest that we write back to the minister, thanking him for his attempts to focus matters. We are also grateful for Alasdair Rankin's meeting with representatives of the Executive. However, we do not think that we can bind any parliamentary committee—we are charged with considering the vires aspects, not policy. We would like guidelines—not necessarily conventions, as Trish Godman pointed out—or some memorandum of understanding between our advisers and the Executive's legal advisers as to how matters should be progressed. If the Executive is not following that memorandum, perhaps it could assist us by telling us why not—that would reduce the need for such meetings.We have some sympathy with the cut-and-paste approach; in the age of information technology, matters should be accessible and readable. I have been in offices where information that has not been updated litters the floor and where it is impossible to resolve matters, so the point about updating along the lines of the \"Parliament House Book\" is clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 638656,
      "EditedText": "In paragraph 7 of the letter, Tom McCabe says that the instruments will be available through \"bookshops and the website\" for some time. That is relative—it could mean 25 years, but we do not know. We need to hang on to that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 638649,
      "EditedText": "We have had helpful advice from the clerks. The starting point is that the advice that the rule on no more than five amendments of any substance being considered is not new. We are not asking for something that we have dreamed up since this Parliament was conceived. The Speaker's Counsel confirmed at a recent joint meeting that this had been the rule-of-thumb adopted for many years by Whitehall departments, following official guidance of at least 30 years' standing.If that is the backdrop, I would have thought that there is a precedent for what we are trying to achieve. As a legal practitioner, I can say that it is difficult for professional users to find out what the law is if there is a plethora of documents. The danger is that practitioners might fail to notice the most recently enacted one—that can have drastic consequences.We must consider in what circumstances there should be consolidation. The Executive suggests, in paragraph 6 of the note, that there is merit in developing what it calls a convention on the matter. What locus does this committee have to develop conventions? Does the Parliament yet have any conventions? If it does, what are they and should this committee be the body that focuses on them?As a matter of common sense, we might be able to deal best with consideration of the merit of statutory instruments by recommending to the lead committee—or committees—that they might not want to consider in detail consolidatory measures, because they have been considered before. That would enable the committee to decide whether it should spend time debating the merits of statutory instruments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 638654,
      "EditedText": "In our earlier deliberations, we did not get as far as discussing paragraph 7 of the Executive letter of 3 November and the extensive comments and advice that we received from Margaret Macdonald. The Executive says that it is concerned by the view expressed in our 5th report that\"where it is proposed to amend an instrument made before devolution it is appropriate that the instrument should be remade as a Scottish subordinate instrument rather than amended\".We have been advised that, for various reasons, we should stick with what we said in our report. The advice also indicates that, as long ago as 1970, the approach that we took was recommended by a Westminster legislation committee. At the time, that approach was widely welcomed by lawyers and the public. They wanted the Scottish corpus of law to be clear—not dependent on scrutiny of UK statutory instruments that could be deleted for England but that could remain extant for Scotland. Since accession to the European Union, the situation is further complicated.I am sorry that I did not raise the matter earlier. I hope that there will be a re-think about the approach, given the strong arguments for our side of the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 638625,
      "EditedText": "At our previous meeting we raised questions about Westminster straying into the Parliament's areas of competence. Does anyone wish to comment on the response? It appears rather disingenuous of the Executive to say that it had nothing to do with it, since its fingerprints were all over the draft document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638626,
      "EditedText": "A dusty answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 638633,
      "EditedText": "All of us would prefer that the vast majority of devolved legislation goes through this Parliament. As we are all aware, there may be instances when it is more sensible for legislation to be progressed through Westminster. That would happen only after discussion and agreement with the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Domestic Rating Contributions (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/153)",
      "HeadingID": 19359,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 19359,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 638642,
      "EditedText": "There is nothing to note on this, apart from the typographical error that our eagle-eyed adviser pointed out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 3) (Scotland) Revocation Order 1999 (SSI 1999/159)",
      "HeadingID": 19362,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ID": 19362,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 638646,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 638652,
      "EditedText": "I agree as well. The word \"convention\" worries me a bit. I might be wrong, but it seems to imply that something has gone before but, in this Parliament, nothing has. On the other hand, there is a wealth of experience in Westminster on this matter—more than 30 years.We need some sort of guidelines and, as Bristow says, other committees can use those as they see fit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 638655,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful for us to raise that. We also welcome Fergus Ewing's recognition of the wisdom of Westminster on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 638657,
      "EditedText": "From a petitioner's point of view—or for anyone involved in legislation—such matters are in the domain of the Scottish Parliament, regardless of whether the legislation was made by Westminster. If we amend legislation, that should be recorded—to ease the paper-chase, if nothing else. Perhaps we could go back to the Minister for Parliament to say that we are not satisfied."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 638659,
      "EditedText": "I thought that Fergus was going to say that he had no objection because the recommendation came from a time when Dr Ewing was a member at Westminster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 638660,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, everybody. That ends today's meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 638661,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:34."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 638631,
      "EditedText": "I should express what is perhaps a minority view, but I would not want to see Westminster legislating on devolved issues any more."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)",
      "HeadingID": 19357,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19357,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 638639,
      "EditedText": "Definitely. I agree with Bristow Muldoon and Trish Godman."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 638658,
      "EditedText": "I was a bit slow to respond to Bristow Muldoon's low blow. I am sure that the excellent recommendation from the Westminster committee came from the highly intelligent and distinguished clerks. The Scottish National party has never had any quarrel with the clerks at Westminster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19355,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19355,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638624,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:16"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638627,
      "EditedText": "Yes, a dusty answer. However I can understand why that occurred."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 638630,
      "EditedText": "I agree—we will reply that we wrote with the best of intentions and that the Executive would have been better to admit its culpability because we were not reproaching it in any way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 638635,
      "EditedText": "On the facts and circumstances of this matter, I can understand how this came about. I do not own a dog, never mind breed dogs, but doubtless regulations are required on that. It might have been easier to bring the regulations in through Westminster, given the stage that the process had reached. However, the Government should have admitted that and confirmed that it was straying into our field of competency, for perhaps understandable reasons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)",
      "HeadingID": 19357,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 19357,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 638638,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 19358,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 19358,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 638641,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Statutory Provisions (Postponement from Repeal) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/156)",
      "HeadingID": 19360,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ID": 19360,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 638643,
      "EditedText": "No matters arise from this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Statutory Provisions (Exemption from Repeal) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/157)",
      "HeadingID": 19361,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 19361,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 638644,
      "EditedText": "No matters arise from this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 3) (Scotland) Revocation Order 1999 (SSI 1999/159)",
      "HeadingID": 19362,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ID": 19362,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 638645,
      "EditedText": "We noted that in previous matters we had not raised why section 24(1) is now being mentioned as opposed to section 24(3). Perhaps it was our failure that that was not noted in the first place. Should we seek clarification as to the use of 24(3) vis-à-vis 24(1)?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 2) (Scotland) Partial Revocation Order 1999 (SSI 1999/160)",
      "HeadingID": 19363,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ID": 19363,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 638647,
      "EditedText": "The same point arises from this as from the earlier matter, regarding sections 24(1) and 24(3)."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 638648,
      "EditedText": "The final matter on the agenda is the letter from the Minister for Parliament, which we held over from the previous matter regarding consolidations. We had a fair kick at the ball in our legal briefing. Do members wish to make any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minister for Parliament (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19364,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 19364,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 638650,
      "EditedText": "We do not want to regiment things too much. There is not that much difference between what we want and what the Minister for Parliament wants. We will develop practical working guidelines for the operation of the Executive. As you said, convener, we are trying to streamline the work of the committee so that, if what the Executive wants differs from what we want in terms of presentation of statutory instruments and consolidations, the Executive has an explanation. I would be happy to flesh out our ideas into a guideline, or whatever we want to call it.I do not think that it is practical to ask subject committees not to debate the merits of consolidation issues, as a committee could raise those issues in any case. I would be happy for you to respond to the letter from the Minister for Parliament to try to work out the way this committee works."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3621
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19356,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19356,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638628,
      "EditedText": "It is only fair to the Executive to point out why we think it is disingenuous—the implication of the note was that the Government really had nothing to do with the private member's bill, but the committee has been informed that that is not quite the case, and that drafting assistance was given by the Scottish Executive development department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18748,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 625058,
      "EditedText": "Convener, we are discussing a code of conduct for MSPs. A ministerial code exists and the committee will make recommendations on it, with particular regard to lobbying. However, the events of the past few days show that there is a deficit of accountability regarding the political advisers appointed by ministers. Will it be in order for the Standards Committee to make recommendations to ministers on the role and conduct of special advisers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18748,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 625059,
      "EditedText": "We can legitimately consider that matter at a later date. Today, we are focusing specifically on the code of conduct for MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18748,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 625060,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that, at the moment, there is no code of conduct of the category that Trish mentioned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18748,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 625063,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that special advisers are appointed as civil servants and, therefore, would be subject to a civil service code of conduct. Perhaps that could be clarified if we send a letter to the senior civil servant asking whether that is the case. If it is, it is not specifically a matter for the Standards Committee. As we have discussed before, the committee deals with the conduct of MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18748,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 625066,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, the title of this committee is the Scottish Parliament Standards Committee. Not only MSPs are in the Scottish Parliament; they may be the elected members, but there are other staff. I wonder whether the Standards Committee should have an extension to its powers. Someone, somewhere, must have those powers, and I would have thought that the Standards Committee was the logical choice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 625070,
      "EditedText": "The final paragraph says that\"the legal advice is that pensions do not fall within any of the registrable categories of the Order.\"That surprises me and I wonder about it. When I was a member of Glasgow City Council, it was proposed that I sit on the licensing board. However, because I had declared that I was the recipient of a company pension from Allied-Lyons—which, of course, has extensive interests in the drinks industry—I was told that I would not be allowed to sit on the licensing board. I would have thought that certain pensions should be declared—I have declared mine in the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 625071,
      "EditedText": "There is no legal requirement to register pensions. However, I have done so—under the category of miscellaneous—because I think that it is important to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 625072,
      "EditedText": "It is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 625077,
      "EditedText": "When we produce a new act, we will have the opportunity to reconsider the issue. At the moment, we are working under the law that has been laid down. The law is about employment, and pensions are regarded as payments to individuals who have been employed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 625082,
      "EditedText": "I would like to move on from that point. The rules are fairly straightforward. We have taken on board the point that, if the code needs to be changed in the future, we will have the opportunity to change it. However, we must act within the law and with the act that is laid down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 625086,
      "EditedText": "It is true that the code of conduct that we are drafting is very strict. By strict, I mean that it is quite clear to members.Do members have any other points on page 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 625091,
      "EditedText": "You have jumped in ahead of me, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 625093,
      "EditedText": "You are right: there should be an on-going register. However, did not we also agree that we would publish it annually? We set a date for its publication."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 625094,
      "EditedText": "A date was set for its publication, but it is on-going. Although we wanted to do that, the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body decided that it would not proceed with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 625100,
      "EditedText": "That is the system, John."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 625102,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The document is live. As there have been relatively few amendments after several months, we might be wise to see how it goes and to review the matter next year. Are you happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 625106,
      "EditedText": "That is a wide issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 625110,
      "EditedText": "Adam Ingram is suggesting something wider than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 625114,
      "EditedText": "We have to achieve a balance between the need for public disclosure and the need for privacy. We cannot legislate on that in all circumstances—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 625118,
      "EditedText": "We are dealing with a member's declaration of interest. What the member's spouse or children do is an entirely different matter. We might as well legislate for them—how far does this go? The onus is with the member. If the members have doubts, they can, as has been said, bring the matter forward. We should not deal with it here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 625119,
      "EditedText": "That is the position that we are in at the moment. If Adam Ingram wishes to raise it in future, that would be perfectly legitimate. Let us move on to page 4 of the draft. Does anyone want to comment on anything on that page?Are there any comments on page 5? Are there any comments on page 6?This is good going. Are there any comments on page 7?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 625124,
      "EditedText": "I do not understand what kind of services we could give \"as a member of the Parliament\". Why would we, as members of the Parliament, have clients? Why is that sentence included? I do not understand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 625129,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we should remove it. It requires the member to publish the names of their clients."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 625133,
      "EditedText": "We could take that out and make a statement to that effect at tomorrow morning's meeting. That is agreed.Are there any comments on pages 11 or 12? There is another reference to that point, which we will also need to remove."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 625153,
      "EditedText": "I am only talking about the value."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 625155,
      "EditedText": "I have received no gifts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 625157,
      "EditedText": "Yes, indeed you are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 625158,
      "EditedText": "If my wife's parents give her £500, am I obliged to declare that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 625159,
      "EditedText": "Yes. When we are in a position to write legislation, I am sure that we will revisit this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 625164,
      "EditedText": "As has been said more than once, the law is an ass."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 625171,
      "EditedText": "It would be worse if he told you that it cost more than £250, and when you got it valued, it turned out to be worth only £100."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 625177,
      "EditedText": "That is a valid point. Adam Ingram raised a similar issue about spouses, cohabitees and children—let us call them immediate family.However, to return to what I said at the beginning, which you missed, Karen, our role is to try to explain this statutory instrument. If members wish to register other interests, there is a \"Miscellaneous\" column in which to do so. I have used that column myself to register anything that I think should be registered. My point is that, once we get the code established and published, we can come back to examine this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 625178,
      "EditedText": "My employer did not register my interests. I had to complete a separate register of interests as an employee of an MP. We need to consider that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 625179,
      "EditedText": "Karen Gillon and Adam Ingram raise important issues that we need to consider. Perhaps there are loopholes or, rather, other areas that have an important impact upon us. We should revisit those issues next year, once we have completed our work on the code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625186",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 625186,
      "EditedText": "Do members want to make any other points on shares?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 625189,
      "EditedText": "I have a question about page 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625193",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 625193,
      "EditedText": "It might be that someone wanted to intervene in the debate before they were called to speak."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625194",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 625194,
      "EditedText": "They must make their declaration at that point."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625198",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 625198,
      "EditedText": "I, for example, have registered my membership of Unison, as that affects anything to do with public services. In the register, mine is quite a long declaration. Are you saying that in the situation that we are describing, all that I would have to do is say that I have a registered interest in the matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625201",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 625201,
      "EditedText": "That is absolutely right. It could reinforce the argument that you are making. Members should not assume that the oral declaration is meant to be a regurgitation of what they have written down in their registration of interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 625207,
      "EditedText": "Brief declarations are all that is required. We will emphasise that in the text."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625209",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 625209,
      "EditedText": "We are putting another onus on members, are we not?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 625210,
      "EditedText": "It could be made advisory. Patricia Ferguson is shaking her head. Perhaps that is not appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625212",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 625212,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I should declare an interest. I do not think that such a step would be necessary. Members declare interests fairly often in the chamber, at the beginning of their speech. However, I was not sure whether they were required to do that if they made an intervention in a debate. That might be worth highlighting to Presiding Officers and members. I am not sure that the declaration needs to be in written form. It is not to the Presiding Officer that members are declaring an interest, but to the Parliament as a whole. Therefore, an interest should be declared orally, to the Parliament, rather than in writing, to the Presiding Officer."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625218",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 625218,
      "EditedText": "That is not clear in the document. I previously worked for Shelter, the housing charity. I have a strong commitment—as all members know—to housing and homelessness issues. Do you seriously expect me to preface every speech with the statement that I previously worked for Shelter, that I am now an MSP and that, in the future, I might or might not work with Shelter or some other organisation that is concerned with housing or homelessness? That is how it reads."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625221",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "EditedText": "I return to the point that you must use your judgment in that case."
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  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625223",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 625223,
      "EditedText": "That is what worries me. The Gettysburg address had only two pages. This draft code has about 10 or 12 times that. Most members know what they should be declaring. There might be isolated difficulties, but to have all those pages is beyond belief."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 625224,
      "EditedText": "Without being impertinent, I believe that the experience of this committee is that most members did not know what should be registered. That is why we had to use the whips and party meetings to tell members what should be registered. If someone has been a local councillor, they are likely to know something about a register of interests. If someone is coming into politics for the first time, matters that they may think have no influence might require to be registered. If the previous case that the committee investigated told us anything, it was that, in the public perception, people's previous employment is perceived to have an influence on them. That was an important example. We must consider the wording carefully, so that we are clear and do not confuse people. We also do not want to give the impression that politicians should exist in a vacuum and have no experience of the real world. That is certainly not what I would like to see. People's life and work experience is valuable to this Parliament. It will be the difference between this Parliament and the other place, as we like to call it now.In this Parliament, we have a wide range of life experience, employment experience and knowledge. We should see that as an advantage rather than as a disadvantage. The register and declaration of interests should be a way of showing that, as well as ensuring that people are not brought before the committee for any undue reason."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 625227,
      "EditedText": "I will move on to pages 4 and 5.I refer to our previous conversation. Paragraph 4.4 states how oral declarations should be made:\"Members are required to make an oral statement declaring the nature of their registrable interest. A declaration should be brief but sufficiently informative\".Do members have any points on pages 6, 7, 8  or 9 or on the chart for information? Are there any final points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 625228,
      "EditedText": "We should highlight—put in bold text—paragraph 4.5 on page 9 about the responsibility of individual members, particularly the part that states:\"When in doubt, members may seek the advice of the clerk to the Standards Committee.\" That section needs to be flagged up. It is probably the most important bit in the document. We must make sure that it is well highlighted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 625232,
      "EditedText": "Even at Westminster—and without naming members—the MPs who asked for money for asking questions knew that what they were doing was totally wrong and improper. There is no question about that. I am not suggesting that the same will happen here, but members would know that that was wrong. We could illustrate all the points in five pages. Nevertheless, I agree with Des that if members are in doubt, they should ask the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 625233,
      "EditedText": "Members should look at who they will have to face on the Standards Committee if they ever come before us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C625056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18748,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 625056,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:31"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18748,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 625057,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon and welcome to the 14th meeting of the Standards Committee. I welcome John Young to the meeting.Today we will continue our work on the draft code of conduct with consideration of two of the weightiest sections of the text. They focus on an explanation of the requirements for registration and declaration of interests as set out in the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18748,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 625061,
      "EditedText": "Not as far as I am aware."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18748,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 625065,
      "EditedText": "I will endeavour to find out whether those individuals are subject to the civil service code. If so, it will be up to the civil service to take it from there; if not, we can come back to it at a later date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 625073,
      "EditedText": "I agree with you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 625074,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether, on this occasion, the lawyers know what they are talking about—well, I wonder that on many occasions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 625078,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point—we are dealing with the current act and the current requirements. The committee should take the advice that it has received from the lawyers, who have said that there is no need to register pensions. However, if people wish to do so voluntarily, they may do so. The draft code of conduct that we have in front of us reflects that. People must judge whether they would be influenced—or be seen to be influenced—by a pension or whatever. They also have a responsibility, outwith the legal terms, to register what might influence them in the carrying out of their duties. However, there is no legal requirement and that should be reflected in the code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 625080,
      "EditedText": "Well, John, I am fairly sure that you would not have to declare a sandwich. There is a £20 minimum for gifts from local government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 625081,
      "EditedText": "Ask Trish Godman, MSP."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 625083,
      "EditedText": "I think that the lawyers are wrong on the pensions issue. I still say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 625085,
      "EditedText": "It is worth pointing out that, in the second paragraph, the rules are more exacting for the Scottish Parliament than for Westminster members—for example, in the possible use of the law and criminal action against people. We have made a significant advance on the Westminster model; that should be widely recognised in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 625089,
      "EditedText": "The register could be published annually."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 625092,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, Des."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 625096,
      "EditedText": "That is something that we might look at after a year or two. I do not know how frequently members will change, or cease to have, interests—I suspect not a lot. After four years the slate will be wiped clean anyway—when, I hope, we all come back into the Parliament. Well, I will not say that I hope that it will be us all—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 625097,
      "EditedText": "Why is he looking at me?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 625099,
      "EditedText": "There is a simple way of doing this. If something changes on a member's declaration of interests, the member should go to those who administer the register and say that he or she is no longer with that company so that a notation can be made to that effect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 625103,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to see how it goes, but we should consider an annual cut-off point for the register. I will take Vanessa Glynn's advice on whether that will make it easier to administer. I am concerned about whether it might become unwieldy to operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 625104,
      "EditedText": "We will look into that. Are there any other points on page 2 or page 3?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 625105,
      "EditedText": "In other places, there have been debates on the registration of interests of family members. Although we may not wish to stipulate that, perhaps we should give members a clear steer on it. I know that there is a problem with the wider family, but there should be guidance to members on the interests of a spouse or cohabitee and of children."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 625111,
      "EditedText": "If members are discussing a matter in which a close relative, such as their wife or husband, is heavily involved, they should register that interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 625120,
      "EditedText": "Stop! Laughter. On page 6, the issue is raised of when members register interests. Because the draft code is a live document, we will be registering things as they come up, but I am not sure that we have given enough significance in the code to timing. Perhaps we could highlight it a wee bit more. A declaration is not a one-off action. It is not only about lodging an initial statement; it is on-going. We need a separate paragraph to highlight that to members. It is not true that they do not have to register anything else for the four years of a session because they have registered their interests in the first instance. We need to stretch that point out a wee bit more."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 625126,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are all agreed on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 625127,
      "EditedText": "Is it a question of when a member of the Parliament is employed as an adviser on what impact the Parliament will have on such-and-such a business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 625131,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we should delete it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 625132,
      "EditedText": "My point is that we have no licence for that kind of thing. We try to make it clear in what we do that members should not be seen to be making money, as it were, by selling services as a member of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 625135,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are stuck with that wording because it is from the order. The text is the explanation, but that wording is part of the order. At this stage, we are looking at the text.Are there any comments on pages 13 or 14? The third paragraph of page 14 may interest Adam Ingram. It says:\"The definition of ‘person' is wide.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 625136,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 2 on page 14 says:\"A one-off donation . . . does not fall to be registered as sponsorship\".I wonder whether we should consider a financial limit. Could we take advice on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 625138,
      "EditedText": "They would come under the category of gifts, and gifts are limited to £250."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 625140,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 625141,
      "EditedText": "How would one know if the gift exceeded £250? The document mentions\"a gift of heritable or moveable property; or . . . a gift of a benefit in kind, the value of which, at the date it was received by the member or his spouse or cohabitee or the company or partnership, as the case may be, exceeds £250.\"If somebody passed on a gift and the member thought that it was worth £241 but was not sure, would that member be asked whether its value was greater than £250?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 625143,
      "EditedText": "It is an awfully long code of conduct. I have seen a number in the past, but none was as long as this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 625144,
      "EditedText": "The important thing about this code of conduct is that we have a statutory system. As you can see, the statutory information is shown in the boxes on the document; we have added explanations so that members can be absolutely clear about what they can and cannot do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 625147,
      "EditedText": "An MSP should not accept a gift. We are talking about a member or his spouse or cohabitee or a company in which the member has a controlling interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 625149,
      "EditedText": "That is what I would have thought."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 625151,
      "EditedText": "So can one only register a gift if it is more than £250."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 625152,
      "EditedText": "No, members can register anything they want to. They are not required to register a gift if it is worth less than £250. That is the statutory order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 625156,
      "EditedText": "Can I be clear about this? Let us suppose that my parents give me a gift of £500. Am I obliged to declare that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 625160,
      "EditedText": "So when I celebrate my silver wedding anniversary next year and receive lots of gifts worth more than £250, I will have to declare them all?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 625161,
      "EditedText": "Members should be careful after Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 625162,
      "EditedText": "It is ridiculous that, if my three-and-a-half-year old granddaughter gives me a Donald Duck that I think is worth more than £250, I will have to declare it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 625166,
      "EditedText": "My husband intends to give me a ring for my Christmas. I am anticipating that it will be worth more than £250. Does it therefore have to be registered?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 625168,
      "EditedText": "Ask him for a receipt. This will cause domestic problems in some places."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 625169,
      "EditedText": "Joking apart, Karen, that is a very good point. We will check the legal situation for gifts between spouses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 625172,
      "EditedText": "Exactly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 625174,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should say on page 16 that the legal requirement is as it is because we cannot do anything else. It should say that members should make particular efforts to register anything that could be seen to influence their activities. That is the direction in which we should be going, as what we have is inappropriate. We should consider the wording and highlight what the intent is. To be blunt, we should alter the legal text so that it is more up to date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 625180,
      "EditedText": "Going through this document is an extremely useful exercise as there are a number of points that have arisen, including the £250 limit on gifts, the point about gifts that are exchanged between member and spouse and the issue about staff that Karen raised. A lot of areas are coming to light now that perhaps were not appreciated by those who drew up the legislation and the order. It is easy to do things in a vacuum, but we are a working Parliament and we must ensure that we have guidance and codes in place that allow us to carry out our work. That is important. I ask the clerks to take note of these points, so that, when the code of conduct is sent to members, we can consider how to improve the situation at the turn of the year, to ensure that we are allowed to do our job as we need to do it. At the same time, we should build in safeguards so that we are accountable, open and transparent in a way that does not limit us in carrying out our duties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 625181,
      "EditedText": "Will the clerks get the details of the staff register of interests at Westminster? It is quite a simple process and we do not need to reinvent the wheel. We should tackle this issue quite quickly, as we already employ staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 625190,
      "EditedText": "I am always going too fast."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 625192,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 625199,
      "EditedText": "All that you will have to do is say that you have a registered interest. The form of words is left to you. The intention is to alert other MSPs and the wider public who are watching and listening that you have some interest in this issue. They can then take that into account when weighing up what you say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 625200,
      "EditedText": "It may mean that you have some specialised knowledge that you can contribute to the debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 625203,
      "EditedText": "We should make it clear. That is a good point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 625204,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is clear in the section that we are discussing. We need to tighten that up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 625205,
      "EditedText": "We will make it clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 625206,
      "EditedText": "We will make ourselves look stupid if we do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 625208,
      "EditedText": "We should also emphasise that, if members indicate that they want to speak in a debate, they should declare their interest to the Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 625214,
      "EditedText": "The new text—the darker text at the top of the page—lacks clarity. The test is this:\"would having the interest prejudice or give the appearance of prejudicing the member's ability to participate in a disinterested manner in the proceedings of the Parliament in relation to the particular matter?\"I think that we could find better wording than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 625215,
      "EditedText": "We will revisit the structure of that sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 625225,
      "EditedText": "Nevertheless, it could be done with a degree of brevity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 625226,
      "EditedText": "Some good points have been made. It is important that the code of conduct is not just a regurgitation of what the statutory instrument says. We must give clear and unambiguous guidance to members. That is what the code does.If members are happy with Des McNulty's suggestion, we can remove some of the examples but keep the principles.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 625230,
      "EditedText": "When we set out on this process, we wanted to ensure that once the code was with members and was in the public domain, ignorance would no longer be an excuse. That is why we have gone into as much detail as we have. We do not want to get into a situation, as happened at Westminster, where members can say that they did not know about the rules. No one should be in any doubt about what is expected of them. If members fail to live up to expectations, this committee will determine the action that will be taken against them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18748,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 625062,
      "EditedText": "In view of the area in which they work, I would have thought that it was essential for all staff in the Parliament to have a code of conduct. Their code may be slightly different from ours, but the concept would be broadly similar. They are privy to confidential information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18748,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 625064,
      "EditedText": "Des's suggestion is good. We need to establish whether special advisers are subject to civil service rules. As I said, over the past wee while, there has seemed to be a deficit of accountability. We need to find out to whom—exactly—special advisers are accountable. If they are not accountable to the First Minister or to those who appoint them, are they accountable under a civil service code? For the sake of the Parliament, we need to establish who is accountable to whom for their actions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18748,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 625067,
      "EditedText": "The most important thing is first to find out the facts. I will report back to the committee as soon as we find out what the situation of those individuals is, and what code of conduct applies to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18748,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 625068,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 625069,
      "EditedText": "Members have received briefing notes that make clear that the proposed text for the two sections that we are considering this afternoon is largely an explanation of the legal requirements on members. That is a very important point, because our scope to amend the substance of what is proposed may be limited.The briefing notes—which members have all had a chance to look at—highlight possible additional requirements or guidance, and we may wish to include them in the code. However, I remind members that our primary aim is to issue speedy guidance to members, and not to spend a lot of time creating new rules or debating the need for them. That is the most important point—we must act with speed. As our experience of the working of the Parliament increases, we can come back to the issue, but it is important to get the code up and running. I want to start with the section on registration of interests—section 3—and work through it page by page."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 625075,
      "EditedText": "The issue has been looked at extremely carefully and the legal advice is that it is not applicable. I gave my own example because I agree, John, that it is important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 625076,
      "EditedText": "This is a hypothetical case, but what if Allied Domecq—as it now calls itself—wanted something pushed through the Scottish Parliament. I could support its proposal and vote for it, despite receiving money from it monthly. I think that that is totally wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 625079,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to labour the point, convener, but it seems ridiculous. As I understand it, if I was on the Local Government Committee and was invited to visit a local authority, I would have to declare a sandwich if I received one, but I would not have to declare a pension. That is nonsense. I do not know whether we have a voluntary code on sandwiches."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 625084,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your contribution, John.Do members have any other comments on page 1? No. Page 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 625087,
      "EditedText": "Is there some sort of mechanism for when an interest ceases—a process by which that interest need no longer be specified in the register? Might we consider a lapse period, after which an interest would no longer have to be declared?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 625088,
      "EditedText": "I thought that that was a legal requirement, but it is not. I am advised that it is difficult to make that judgment. Although the interest technically ends—and members might feel that it should therefore be removed from the register—there may be a difficulty in deciding whether a member has nevertheless been influenced by it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 625090,
      "EditedText": "The point of the register is that it is live. It is not extant for 365 days, after which we move on to another one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 625095,
      "EditedText": "The danger is that we might end up with a register that—although the intention is for it to be live—contains a series of interests that have ceased. I wonder whether the way in which to deal with that would be to have an annual date at which the register is published or formalised. It would then become on-going, but what was in the register before 30 March, or whenever, would be recorded as a member's interest of the previous year. People would be able to see, over a two, three or four-year period, how a member's interests had altered, without our retaining all those interests in the live register. This is basically an administrative point. A live register with lots of defunct registrations could become unwieldy. There may be an alternative that would offer transparency but would not entail unnecessary time having to be spent in putting in entries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 625098,
      "EditedText": "After that, we would have to go through the whole process again. I think that that is what we want; we can revisit it if there are problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 625101,
      "EditedText": "That is the system now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625107",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 625107,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, at the end of the financial year—at the end of March—the names of members' staff will be published. Who we are all employing will be clear to everybody. I might be wrong—perhaps we could check that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 625108,
      "EditedText": "It is my understanding that the names of MSPs' employees will be published."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 625109,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. So if someone is employing their son, daughter, wife or whoever, it will be in the public domain anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 625112,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but I am not getting that. Heavily involved? Where?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 625113,
      "EditedText": "The rules for members mean that we have to register particular interests. This is perhaps not the best example, but my wife is a teacher. If one's wife is involved in something relevant, that ought to be registered. The member could be arguing on behalf of their spouse's interests because they are close to that person."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 625115,
      "EditedText": "Let us say, for example, that a member's spouse has a significant position on a public body to which the Parliament is disbursing funds. If we are having a debate on that public body in the chamber, should not the member—if they wish to make a contribution—declare their interest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 625116,
      "EditedText": "There are real difficulties with that. The rules were initially envisaged at a time when only one person in the family was economically active. We are now in a changed society, in which different people have careers. If members are constantly having to declare their spouse's interests and say where they work, that places an undue burden on them. The only interests of real importance are financial ones. Somebody you know might work in an area on which, as an elected member, you make a speech or in which you take an interest. However, you might do so because constituents wish you to or because it happens to be something in which you are interested. Whether you are related to somebody does not matter; we have to safeguard against people presuming that we are acting in pursuit of the financial interests of a family member. We should not stray into territory beyond that, or we will put people at a significant disadvantage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 625117,
      "EditedText": "Adam Ingram has raised an interesting and legitimate point. There are arguments on both sides. At the beginning of the meeting, I said that it was important that we worked through the material in front of us, rather than produce any new material. This is a live document—once we have published it and reported on it, we can come back and address those issues. In the meantime, what is open to members is what I have done in my own case. My wife is self-employed and I have registered her self-employment and her business interests voluntarily, under the miscellaneous entry on the members' register of interests. It is open to members to do that voluntarily, if they wish. I understand the point that Des McNulty is making; it is a valid one and it is something that we can discuss in future. I also understand the point about privacy. We perhaps need to come back to that at a future date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 625121,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point, Tricia. We will get the clerks to draft something to that effect to be included in the document. Any comments on page 7? Interruption. I have just been reminded that the bottom of page 7 and the top of page 8 explain the topic that we have discussed—ceasing to have an interest. Are there any comments on page 8? Any comments on page 9? Page 10?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 625122,
      "EditedText": "One paragraph begins:\"If a member provides services as a member of the Parliament\".As a matter of curiosity, are there any members who come into this category?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 625123,
      "EditedText": "My information from the \"Register of Members' Interests\" is that there are none that we know of."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 625125,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is right. We should excise that part."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 625128,
      "EditedText": "Yes, essentially, that is what it is. To be perfectly honest, that part of the text reflects the system in Westminster. I agree with those members who have said that we should remove it. I am not terribly happy with it myself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 625130,
      "EditedText": "We should say that no member should be providing services, as a member of the Parliament, to anybody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 625134,
      "EditedText": "There is a reference at the bottom of page 12 to contributions to election expenses from a person. It says that \"‘a person' means a single individual or legal person and includes a group of companies\".What about other organisations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 625137,
      "EditedText": "We certainly could. Contributions that do not continue over time would not constitute sponsorship."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 625139,
      "EditedText": "If that is the case, we need to tighten up that wording to refer back to the paragraph on gifts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 625142,
      "EditedText": "This code of conduct is guidance to members. Members must use their own judgment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 625145,
      "EditedText": "If a member received a car, they would know that it was worth more than £250. However, if they were to receive a watch, they might not be sure of its value. That is a hypothetical example, but it is worth considering."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 625146,
      "EditedText": "Throughout the code of conduct we suggest that members should err on the side of caution and approach the whole subject carefully. For example, we talked about what constituted a registrable interest. If in doubt, I would suggest that an interest should be registered voluntarily; the same applies to a gift. If an MSP accepts a gift that may be worth anywhere near £250, it is up to them to use their judgment. The whole point is to have transparency and openness. These are clear guidelines for MSPs, so the onus is on MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 625148,
      "EditedText": "They are prohibited from receiving gifts worth more than £250."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 625150,
      "EditedText": "I beg your pardon. The legal requirement is for members to register such gifts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 625154,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that you are here, John, because this is a test case. All MSPs must use their judgment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 625163,
      "EditedText": "That is the law."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 625165,
      "EditedText": "The Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999 has been given to us by Westminster and we must act within it. Today we are explaining the rules. If we feel that there are anomalies, we can revisit this matter when we produce legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 625167,
      "EditedText": "What a good excuse for your husband."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 625170,
      "EditedText": "I do not want you to know if he is miserable and I do not get anything worth more than £250. If I have nothing to declare after Christmas, I will be a sad person."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 625173,
      "EditedText": "I call the committee to order. We have discussed pages 15 and 16, which are about gifts.Are there any comments on page 17?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 625175,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we will do that, Des. It will be in the final draft. Are there any comments about page 17?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 625176,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for being late, convener. Where in the document are members' staff covered? When I worked for an MP at Westminster, I was required to register my interests, but there is a big gap in the document before us. In addition to spouses, staff could be given gifts or taken to events. We should consider that issue, as it is missing from this document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 625182,
      "EditedText": "That issue has been taken on board and the clerks will progress it. Are there any comments about page 17? Page 18? Page 19? Page 20? Page 21?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 625183,
      "EditedText": "We were talking about registration of share capital and so on, under category 8 on page 21, where a percentage is mentioned. Would it not be wiser and safer for a member who holds shares to register those shares, no matter the quantity or value? That might save a lot of difficulties for members. While most members probably do not hold shares of the volume referred to in the document, a member who holds only 10 shares should be able to register them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 625184,
      "EditedText": "That is what we recommend in the code.On page 22 it says:\"Members who think their shareholding may have reached a market value of over the threshold or who have any other shareholdings which are not registrable may, in the spirit of openness and transparency wish, to register them in the ‘Miscellaneous' category.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 625185,
      "EditedText": "That covers it. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 625187,
      "EditedText": "At the bottom of page 18 there is a definition of heritable property. We should keep referring to heritable property as defined there, or we may trip up ourselves and other people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 625188,
      "EditedText": "We now move to section 4, which is the declaration of interests. I will go through that page by page, as I did with the section on registration. Members may intervene if they have any comments.Are there any comments on page 1? Page 2? Page 3? Page 4?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0939977+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 625191,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I think that you need to go a little more slowly. On page 2 the code states\"that a member must make an oral declaration in proceedings of the Parliament, before otherwise taking part in those proceedings\".Taking part is defined as anything other than voting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 625195,
      "EditedText": "I could imagine circumstances in which it might be worth getting members to make a written declaration to the Presiding Officer before the start of a meeting if they anticipate a problem, so that the Presiding Officer is aware which members will want to make an oral declaration if they are called. That would serve both to alert the Presiding Officer that the debate may raise particular issues for a member and to ensure that, if that member is called, they make their declaration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 625196,
      "EditedText": "This is a difficult issue, because things can happen very quickly in debates and a member who had no intention of speaking may want to make a quick point. Before doing so, they will have to make a five-minute declaration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 625197,
      "EditedText": "It is not a five-minute declaration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C625202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 625202,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that is clear to people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 625211,
      "EditedText": "Patricia, you are a Deputy Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 625213,
      "EditedText": "We take that on board, and will bring that point about interventions and declarations to the attention of the Presiding Officer.We will proceed more slowly. Let us consider page 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 625216,
      "EditedText": "May we proceed to the bottom of page 3 and the top of page 4? I find the statement strange that, if a member has been employed previously by someone and still has \"a strong commitment to the aims of that organisation . . . There could, therefore, be a case for declaration of interest\". Can somebody explain that to me?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 625217,
      "EditedText": "I shall give an example. If a member is in a position of responsibility, who has worked in an organisation before from which they have resigned, there is a possibility that, in the future, they might return to that company. There is a need to ensure, in the interests of transparency and openness, that that interest is registered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 625219,
      "EditedText": "Article 5(1) of the order, in the boxed text, refers to \"Where a member has a registrable interest in respect of which he or she has lodged a statement . . . which would prejudice or give the appearance of prejudicing his ability\"—or her ability—\"to participate in a disinterested manner in proceedings of the Parliament\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 625220,
      "EditedText": "It is a chicken-and-egg situation. I remember watching \"Cathy Come Home\" when I was a young child. I have been interested in homelessness since then. I was interested in Shelter as a charity, and then I went to work for it. I am still interested in homelessness and housing issues. However, my interest in those issues did not stem from my previous employment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 625222,
      "EditedText": "I think that in the paragraph to which Tricia Marwick refers, and in the previous one, we are trying to anticipate cases. It might be preferable to make the general point that is in the middle paragraph on page 3, to include the first sentence of the fourth paragraph and to avoid using the examples. Each person's case will be different. We should say that if members are in doubt, they should seek advice from the clerk to the Standards Committee. That is the way to handle it.Trying to get case law down into a text of this kind is an inappropriate way in which to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 625229,
      "EditedText": "That section is the key part of the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 625231,
      "EditedText": "That leads on from John Young's point about brevity. Karen has hit the nail on the head—this is the guide for MSPs, and there are no excuses. That must be quite clear and unambiguous. If any doubt remains in the minds of members, they should consult the clerk to the Standards Committee in the first instance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 625234,
      "EditedText": "I will ask the clerks to take on board all the issues that we have highlighted and to incorporate the changes. Karen Gillon and Adam Ingram made at least a couple of important points about additions that could be made to the code in future, once we come to produce our own legislation. We will consider them at the time. Members should remember that the legislation was passed down to us from Westminster and that what we are producing is an explanation of those rules. If there are no further points, I will close the meeting. We will reconvene tomorrow morning to complete discussion of the next sections of the code."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C625235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3479
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18749,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 18749,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 625235,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:32."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.1252509+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 420211,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we would."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)<br />Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 11224,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ID": 11224,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 420224,
      "EditedText": "I want to make a correction on behalf of my former profession. The increase is not 3 per cent a year, but 3 per cent over two years, as the previous increase was in 1998. The increase is therefore only 1.5 per cent per annum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11221,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11221,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 420202,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:59"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11221,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11221,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 420203,
      "EditedText": "I bring the committee to order. We are quorate, so we shall begin.Members may have noticed that this morning's agenda is uncommonly light for a Justice and Home Affairs Committee meeting. Provisionally, we had agreed to take evidence today from the Federation of Small Businesses on the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill. However, on Thursday the FSB had still not confirmed that it would be coming, although its attendance was pencilled in. We were not advised until Thursday afternoon that it had decided that it was not yet in a position to give evidence on the bill and would be unlikely to be so until January. Regrettably, because we did not get that advice until late on Thursday and the deadline for getting papers to the printers was later the same afternoon, it was absolutely impossible to replace the FSB's evidence with another item. That is why today's meeting did not start until 10 o'clock and why the agenda seems a little light. I am sorry about that. There was nothing that we could do, given the time constraints on Thursday.I can now confirm that there will be no committee meeting next Wednesday because of the extension of parliamentary business into Wednesday morning. We have, however, confirmed that we will be able to meet on Tuesday afternoon next week. We have taken a three-hour slot, from 3.30 to 6.30—whether we have an agenda that will run for three hours is another matter. However, the Minister for Justice has confirmed that he will be available between 3.30 and 4.30. He will appear before the committee for one hour, during which we can pursue our interest in the prisons issue. I ask members to be punctual for next week's meeting. Be here for 3.30, because we have only one hour with the minister and we do not want to waste any of that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C420205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 420205,
      "EditedText": "You have clearly outlined the committee's position, convener. We have an incredible number of matters to discuss, and we keep coming back to the issue of how much more we can take on. There is no way that the committee could discuss this proposed bill before Easter, and it might be difficult even after that, depending on what else we decide to do and bearing in mind what we were saying last week. For that reason, it might be best formally to say to the petitioners that they should follow the route that you have set out and talk to the Executive directly, given that it has stated that it had not previously considered this matter and might well now do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 420208,
      "EditedText": "Christine Grahame is suggesting that we intimate formally to the Public Petitions Committee what the position is with regard to the Executive's commitment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C420216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 420216,
      "EditedText": "What is Phil suggesting that we make representations to the minister about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 420217,
      "EditedText": "I will write to the Minister for Justice on behalf of the committee, saying that we note what he said in his letter of 24 November—that he is committing the Executive to at least considering this issue. I will say that, as a consequence, we are referring the petition back to the Public Petitions Committee so that it can formally progress matters as it deems appropriate, that we will be writing to the petitioners advising them of what we are doing and that we would like the minister to keep us informed of any practical measures he intends to take in this area.If, over a period of months, very little appears to be happening, the Public Petitions Committee could refer the matter back to us. However, given the Executive's commitment, for the committee at this stage to take on board work that it could not think of carrying out for a number of months would not be particularly useful. Are we all agreed on that course of action?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Emergency Vehicles)",
      "HeadingID": 11223,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 11223,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 420218,
      "EditedText": "Petition 28 is from the 999 Clear Roads Campaign, on emergency vehicles. It has been referred to us by the Public Petitions Committee and has also been referred to the Transport and the Environment Committee. As members will have seen from the clerk's note, the petition reads:\"We, the undersigned, declare that lives are being endangered by the failure of road traffic users to give priority to the emergency services.The petitioners therefore request that the Scottish Parliament support a law which will force drivers to give way and access to the Emergency Services in pursuit of their duties, during 999 emergency operations.\"The petition is signed by James Buchanan of Arbroath and 36 others, mostly from Arbroath and Glasgow. It invites Parliament to legislate to require drivers to give way to emergency vehicles.If members have read the note from the clerk, they will see that there are a number of difficulties with this petition, as road traffic legislation is a matter reserved to Westminster. That is one fairly insurmountable obstacle to legislating on an issue. Because the petition explicitly seeks legislation, as opposed to the committee's or Parliament's taking a view or having a debate on the subject, it is difficult to see how we can reasonably further it. The clerk has helpfully pointed out that it is already a requirement of the highway code that drivers should give way to emergency vehicles.This is a difficult set of circumstances. We can advise the petitioners that, because we cannot legislate in this Parliament on a reserved matter, it is impossible for us to provide the answer that they are looking for. I suppose that they could be advised to try the processes of the Westminster Parliament rather than this one. However, we would want at least to indicate our concern about the matters that have been raised. I would want to take up the clerk's suggestion that we write to the Executive drawing attention to those matters. I would also want to write to the convener of the Transport and the Environment Committee saying that, notwithstanding the impossibility of legislating in this area, the Transport and the Environment Committee may want to discuss the problem in more general terms, to raise public awareness of it. That is not our place, as our role and remit as the Justice and Home Affairs Committee is more specific. If members are happy with that suggestion, we will go ahead with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Emergency Vehicles)",
      "HeadingID": 11223,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 11223,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 420220,
      "EditedText": "At the end of his note, the clerk points out that we can ask whether the Executive has any plans to increase public awareness of the need to give way. That is something that the Executive can do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C420221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Emergency Vehicles)",
      "HeadingID": 11223,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 11223,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 420221,
      "EditedText": "That is the point that I was going to make. This is not about a new law, but about ensuring that the existing highway regulations are adhered to. The correct body to discuss this matter and to do any publicity is the Transport and the Environment Committee. This is clearly a transport issue, rather than a legal issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)<br />Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 11224,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11224,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 420223,
      "EditedText": "The next item on our agenda is subordinate legislation. We have two negative instruments to consider. I suspect that committee members have not read through those carefully. They consist mainly of columns of figures. SSI 1999/149 details an increase in fees payable to solicitors of around 3 per cent. I suspect that that is only an annual increase in line with inflation, although that is not made clear. There is also a new provision for a fee for attendance at a child welfare hearing and at a diet fixed in relation to the withdrawal of a solicitor or at certain miscellaneous interim hearings.SSI 1999/150 increases the fees payable to sheriff officers by around 3 per cent.These are negative instruments, which will come into force unless we call specifically for their annulment. Anybody who called for that would have to answer to the legal profession and to the sheriff officers. Laughter. We are well conversant with the procedure for dealing with a negative instrument with which we have a problem, as we have done that already. However, in my view, there is nothing substantive that need concern us about these two statutory instruments. I believe that we should simply note them and move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C420230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)<br />Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 11224,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ID": 11224,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 420230,
      "EditedText": "I would not say that happy is the word."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11225,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ID": 11225,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 420234,
      "EditedText": "Maureen, when do you think it is likely that you will have a written report for the committee that recommends a course of action? I know that you are in the process of working towards that, but have you set a time scale?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11225,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ID": 11225,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 420239,
      "EditedText": "That is a sensible suggestion. I admit that I got lost once or twice during Maureen's report. I would like to read the documents for myself.Maureen, how would you summarise the response that you got to the issue of stand-alone legislation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C420240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11225,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ID": 11225,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 420240,
      "EditedText": "The response was positive. There were some reservations about whether there might not be existing legislation that could be used instead, but there was certainly no antipathy towards stand-alone legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11225,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ID": 11225,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 420242,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 11:17."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 420213,
      "EditedText": "Yes. There are other members of the Public Petitions Committee present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 420215,
      "EditedText": "Those could accompany the letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 420204,
      "EditedText": "We now move to item 1 on the agenda, petitions. We have two petitions before us today. Petition 4, from Maclay Murray & Spens, is on the tenancy of shops. Members will recall that we have considered this petition before and that I wrote to the Minister for Justice on 28 September. We received a reply towards the end of November, which has been circulated. In his letter, the minister stated that\"there were currently no plans to consider the question of commercial tenancies in Scotland or to bring forward legislation which could affect the situation outlined in the petition . . . However now that the issue has been brought to our attention we will consider it.\"The committee now has to decide how it wants to deal with the petition. By virtue of the minister's letter, dated 24 November, the Executive has committed itself to considering the issue that the petition raises. That consideration, however long it takes, may go some way towards meeting the concerns expressed by Maclay Murray & Spens.One of our difficulties—we keep coming back to this—is the pressure of time. We have already decided that matters that are not raised with us formally will be referred directly to our meeting immediately after the Easter recess, at which we will consider a large number of potential items of future business. The petition came to us formally, so it is in a slightly different position. However, given the commitment that the Executive has made, I am inclined to suggest that the committee's view should be to note the petition, but to suggest to the petitioners that they deal directly with the Executive on this matter. It is difficult to see how this committee could even begin to consider examining in more detail the bill that is proposed here until well after Easter. In those circumstances, the petitioners would be best advised to deal with the Executive directly, as we do not have the time to take this forward.I know that the petitioners are here, although they are not before us in any formal capacity. Do committee members have any comments to make?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 420206,
      "EditedText": "I think that the convener has made a good suggestion. Given the minister's response, perhaps we should also drop him a line welcoming his stand and asking him to keep us informed of progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 420210,
      "EditedText": "Would the Public Petitions Committee monitor the situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Emergency Vehicles)",
      "HeadingID": 11223,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 11223,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 420222,
      "EditedText": "We should write to the convener of the Transport and the Environment Committee, to the Scottish Executive and to the petitioners in the terms that have been outlined. Is everybody happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)<br />Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 11224,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ID": 11224,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 420227,
      "EditedText": "That is interesting to note, but it does not mean that we need to do anything about these statutory instruments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)<br />Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 11224,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ID": 11224,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 420228,
      "EditedText": "I accept that. I just want to record it as a point of interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11225,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ID": 11225,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 420232,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 on the agenda is the report on domestic violence. Maureen Macmillan was appointed reporter on domestic violence some time ago and has been busy working in the background on the issue. She will report back on her meetings with the Family Law Association, the Lord Advocate and Michael Clancy of the Law Society of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C420233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11225,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ID": 11225,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 420233,
      "EditedText": "I will summarise what happened at the meetings. The clerks will provide a fuller note later on.On 2 November, I met Miss Lynne Di Biasio and Miss Shona Smith of the Family Law Association. We discussed the possibility of not amending the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981, but instead having a stand-alone act that would give interdicts against violence with powers of arrest. The FLA believed that the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981 was suitable for hiving off into the kind of bill that the committee might propose.The FLA believed that the process would work in the following way. There would an initial hearing before a sheriff where previous history need not be proved, but where there would need to be corroboration of the likelihood of possible consequences. That would enable the process to deal with people at present excluded from the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981. The first hearing could result in an interdict being granted, based on the doctrine of balance of convenience.The second hearing, which would be held within one week, could allow the granting of a power of arrest for breach of the interdict granted at the first hearing. The evidence required would be a sworn statement from the person seeking the interdict, plus corroboration, for example, a doctor's report.The decision on whether to attach powers of arrest to the interdict would be at the discretion of the sheriff. The FLA said that the courts were used to dealing with interdicts banning people from geographical areas, but that individuals have rights of liberty. An anomaly might, therefore, arise where interdicts were sought by persons sharing the same house. The proposed interdict could not be allowed to deprive persons of their rights under the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981 where spouses have occupancy rights. However, the act might still be used solely for disputes where property was involved. Some review of the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981 might have to be considered.An interdict could be granted for a fixed period, with a built-in review period. When the powers of arrest were granted, the courts would serve notice on the person and register the power of arrest with the police. The onus for renewing the interdict with powers of arrest at the end of the fixed period would be placed on the client, who would tell his or her solicitor. The renewal of the interdict need not require a court appearance. Motions could be in writing unless the sheriff was unhappy about an aspect of the case. Intimation of the renewal would be conveyed to the police by the court. If the action were dropped, the client's solicitor would inform the courts and the police. If the action fell or was recalled, the courts would tell the police. We went on to discuss the implications for legal aid. The FLA believe that there is an anomaly, in that family credit is considered as available income on which to base a legal aid contribution. The FLA thought that an extension of the period of repayment from 10 months to two years would be helpful, although clients often chafed when they were still paying contributions beyond the duration of the action.The FLA believed that there was no Scottish Legal Aid Board policy on the recovery of expenses, as expenses were used as a bargaining tool by solicitors in divorce cases. The FLA also thought that there might be an increase in criminal legal aid as a result of the proposed legislation. The meeting concluded there.On 23 November, I met the Lord Advocate. I outlined the alternatives that the committee had considered and asked Lord Hardie for his views. I also asked him to outline the implications that the possible reform of the law might have on the court system and on the procurator fiscal service. Elish Angiolini, head of the Crown Office policy unit, was with the Lord Advocate and contributed to the discussion. Lord Hardie suggested that the anti-social behaviour orders available under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 might usefully be extended to encompass domestic violence. I indicated that it was more likely that the committee would want to introduce a statutory freedom from violence interdict with powers of arrest, rather than pursue the original intention of amending the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981.When asked about the communications between police, the fiscal service and the courts, the Lord Advocate reported that integration of information systems in the criminal justice system was soon to be up and running. The clerk of the court will be able to notify the police immediately, by typing into the system, if an interdict with powers of arrest had been granted against a particular person. That would remove the onus of reporting the matter to the police from the victim of the domestic violence if the interdict were breached.We briefly went over the procedure for obtaining an interdict with powers of arrest. In essence, the existing process for obtaining an interdict, for any purpose, would remain. However, a second hearing, usually a week later, would be required to attach a power of arrest to the existing interdict. That would, naturally, depend on the sheriff being satisfied. The clerk to the court would then notify the police of the date on which the interdict was due to lapse.It was recommended that the sheriff be given discretion as to the period of validity of the interdict with no statutory provision stated. The interdict's period of validity could be programmed into the computer and would allow whoever accessed the system to see whether an interdict was in force and, if so, for how long. It would also flag up the end of the period and when the interdict would fall. The applicant would be given the opportunity to apply for an extension of the interdict if they so wished.It was accepted, however, that both parties to the interdict should be able to apply for a review of the interdict, for example, by lodging a joint minute asking that the interdict be rescinded if parties had reconciled. Either party could apply for the interdict to be rescinded and a hearing before the court would be arranged. Lord Hardie would prefer that to a situation in which either party could ask the police not to act on an interdict any more.Lord Hardie pointed out that the implications of the European convention on human rights would need to be checked. It was essential that any bill met the ECHR requirements. For example, any sentence for breach of an interdict would need to be proportionate to the terms of the interdict breached and the offence committed. It would be advisable to give the sheriff discretion as to what sentence to impose with, perhaps, a statutory maximum sentence specified.On the resource implications for the fiscal service, Mrs Angiolini explained that the process of preparing the petition for court took approximately 1½ hours. It was explained that it was very difficult to gauge the implication that the new procedure might have on the number of cases. More people might apply for an interdict than would want a prosecution, or people might want both. It might be that offences dealt with by a prosecution could now be better dealt with by the new procedure. Mrs Angiolini said that Shona Barry, who works in the Crown Office's policy unit, had been carrying out a review of the prosecution of domestic violence cases and could include an analysis of the bill's impact.It was pointed out that it was likely that the civil evidence requirement of proof would be sufficient to obtain an interdict. However, in order to prove a breach of an interdict, it was more likely that corroboration would be required. That would not necessarily mean that two people would have to have viewed the offence; it might be sufficient for a neighbour to have heard screams or to have comforted the victim after the offence took place. Anti-social behaviour orders do not require corroborated evidence, but breaches of such orders do, due to the fact that they can carry a criminal penalty of imprisonment. The meeting ended there.On 2 December, I met Michael Clancy of the Law Society of Scotland. Mr Clancy asked us to note that he was not necessarily giving the views of the Law Society's council. His views would have to be ratified by the council for that to be case. Originally, the Law Society's preferred option was an overall review of family law and domestic violence.Mr Clancy believed that we must consider how better protection from and prevention of domestic violence could be achieved. He thought that an alternative to a new bill might be enhanced penalties for breaches of existing laws—for example, when a procurator fiscal was making up a charge, it could be signified to the court that the higher range of penalties would be appropriate if there was a previous history of violence in the relationship.Mr Clancy wondered how effective a sanction a personal violence interdict with powers of arrest would be. He believed that breach of the peace could possibly cover the personal violence situations envisaged. He acknowledged, however, that it would be difficult to prove criminal intention if the woman was simply approached and that the proposed interdict would deal with cases where a criminal offence per se had not been committed. The interdict's purpose would be to deal with situations where there was a danger of violence, which did not in itself amount to a criminal offence.Mr Clancy wondered whether breaching an interdict and being arrested would deter someone from domestic violence any more than the threat of being charged with a breach of the peace, but agreed that it would work if police priorities were enforced in relation to such situations.Mr Clancy said that, regardless of whether a committee bill was introduced, an integrated, multi-agency approach was essential. Police should receive enhanced guidance, awareness among social work departments should be raised, and accident and emergency services and doctors should have the ability to probe and question situations.Mr Clancy was then asked for his views on procedures. He believed that sheriff court rules council would deal with procedures of court required for any new law. He believed that if powers of arrest were attached to an interdict, there would have to be corroboration. The interdict could be fixed for a period of, for example, a year. Mr Clancy believed that an application for renewal would require going to court to comply with the ECHR and could not simply be dealt with by a letter.Mr Clancy believed that reconciliation attempts or meetings between the parties to discuss financial settlements, for example, could be problematic. If a man were subject to an interdict, he would be held to be in breach of the interdict if the couple had such a meeting, even if the woman had agreed to the meeting. Mr Clancy suggested that conditions could be attached to the interdict to allow for meetings in certain circumstances—by prior written agreement, for example. There could be a statutory defence to a breach of the interdict if there had been consent for the man to be in the woman's presence.We then discussed legal aid. Mr Clancy said that it would be interesting to see how often offers of legal aid had been turned down because of the requirement to pay a contribution of up to £1,200, as payments of £120 a month over 10 months might be prohibitive. He noted that there was a pilot scheme that allowed people around two years to pay contributions. We discussed the possibility of including the provision of legal aid in the bill and wondered if the financial considerations might have implications for the bill's introduction.Mr Clancy thought that there could be a human rights issue over access to justice, as giving a right without an opportunity to exercise it might defeat the purpose of the bill. He recommended examining the case of Airey v Ireland 1991-92, where the issue of legal aid was debated in the European Court of Justice. He also recommended that there should be a short period of consultation prior to the introduction of a bill. I received, through the clerks, a letter from the Scottish Legal Aid Board. The letter is from Catriona Whyte, solicitor, and is headed \"Representations for the Justice and Home Affairs Committee—Matrimonial Interdicts\". The letter reads:\"At the recent meeting which took place between Maureen McMillan, MSP, yourself\"—that refers to Richard Walsh, senior assistant clerk—\"and representatives of the Board it was agreed that the Board would provide representations on matrimonial interdicts covering, in particular, the Board's policy and procedures with regard to special urgency applications and contribution related matters. It was agreed that we would provide you with information about the number of interdict applications which had been refused because no contribution offer had been accepted. I am sorry it has taken so long to get this information to you but I am now able to give you this statistical information. It is also my intention to provide you with details of the breakdown of interdict applications between male and female applicants. This information will not however be available until Monday 6 December 1999 but I will arrange to have this information faxed to you as soon as it is available. In the year 1998/99, 137 Court of Session civil legal aid applications and 1,899 sheriff court civil legal aid applications were abandoned before any offer of legal aid was made. In the same year, 40 applications for civil legal aid in the Court of Session and 1,662 applications in the sheriff court were refused after an offer of legal aid had been made. One of the possible reasons for the refusal of legal aid after an offer has been made may be because the contribution offer was too high. In the twelve month period from 1 October 1998 until 30 September 1999, 92 civil legal aid applications involving interdict were refused after an offer of legal aid had been made. The contributions which would have been due in each of these cases ranged from £89 to £2,008. In the year 1998/99, the Board received 15,709 intimations of work which was undertaken under regulation 18 of which 13,652 cases related to work which was undertaken without the need to obtain the prior approval of the Board. Not all of this work would, of course, have involved the obtaining of an interdict but these figures illustrate that extensive use is made of the provisions of regulation 18 which provides for work to be undertaken as a matter of special urgency before civil legal aid applications are determined. At our meeting reference was made to the pilot project which the Board has been running allowing for the payment of legal aid contributions over an extended period of time. Under the pilot scheme where a contribution of between £501 and £1,200 was assessed as payable from income, this sum could have been paid over 15 months. If the requested contribution was between £1,201 and £2,100, the period of repayment was extended to 20 months. It was hoped that by allowing an extended period to make payment of a contribution more applicants would take up offers of legal aid and this should go some way to preventing the situation arising where individuals cannot seek remedies from the court simply because they are assessed as being liable to pay a substantial contribution towards their legal aid. The Board has recently agreed to recommend that this pilot project should be extended.I hope to be able to provide you with the Board's full representations in the near future. This is a matter which is currently being discussed by Board members and once these discussions are concluded, full representations will be sent to you.\"That concludes my report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C420235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11225,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11225,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 420235,
      "EditedText": "I could probably do that by the new year, as we have all the material that we need. I can work on the report over the Christmas holiday, but I do not want to be more specific than saying that the report will be ready by some time in January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11225,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11225,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 420236,
      "EditedText": "Do members have questions for Maureen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11225,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ID": 11225,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 420241,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Maureen. We will circulate the papers separately and we will put the item back on to the agenda in January. We have made provision for that, even although we will have two bills at stage 2. We will have to deal with petitions and subordinate legislation and there will be opportunities to bring other matters back on to the agenda.We will now move to the final item of the agenda, which will be taken in private, as previously agreed by the committee. I ask everyone who is not a committee member to leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 420212,
      "EditedText": "I know that you are on the Public Petitions Committee, which is helpful. So you would monitor how the Executive was taking this forward, having committed itself to considering it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 420214,
      "EditedText": "I accept what Christine has said about the Public Petitions Committee passing this back to the petitioners, but I still think that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee should make representations to the minister recording its thanks and interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Emergency Vehicles)",
      "HeadingID": 11223,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 11223,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 420219,
      "EditedText": "The petition asks us to support a law, rather than to legislate ourselves. You are right to say that this is a reserved power, but could we get in touch with the Minister for Transport and the Environment and ask whether she is having discussions with her counterpart south of the border on progressing legislation at Westminster? We could, as you suggest, write to the convener of the Transport and the Environment Committee. However, we should also ask the minister whether she intends to open up discussion and dialogue with her colleagues in London."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)<br />Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 11224,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11224,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 420225,
      "EditedText": "I can hear the violins as you speak, Christine. Something tells me that there will not be a huge amount of sympathy out there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)<br />Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 11224,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11224,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 420226,
      "EditedText": "I was not too familiar with these statutory instruments. I was interested in the mention of scaled payments for different values of poindings, which set in mind a train of thought that that could relate to Tommy Sheridan's Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill at a later date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)<br />Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 11224,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11224,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 420229,
      "EditedText": "It is a point of information that you will need to think about for future discussions.Is everybody happy that we simply note the SSIs and allow them to come into force?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Act of Sederunt (Fees of Solicitors in the Sheriff Court) (Amendment) 1999 (SSI 1999/149)<br />Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 1999 (SSI 1999/150)",
      "HeadingID": 11224,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ID": 11224,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 420231,
      "EditedText": "Scott, if you want to argue against increases in fees for solicitors and sheriff officers, you are on your own.Is everybody agreed that we simply note the SSIs?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11225,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ID": 11225,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 420238,
      "EditedText": "We have already agreed that we will bring the issue of domestic violence back on to the agenda every couple of weeks or so, to give Maureen and committee members an opportunity to discuss it. That allows us to revisit the issue, even if it is discussed for only 10 or 15 minutes. It will be possible for questions to be asked once we get the notes from the clerk and copies of the letters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9424033+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 420207,
      "EditedText": "It is not necessary for the petitioners to approach the Executive. The Public Petitions Committee could simply be informed that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee has progressed the matter to this point and recommended that it be taken up with the Executive. The Public Petitions Committee could then decide whether to accept that recommendation, without going back to the petitioners. That is the procedure for petitions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Tenancy of Shops)",
      "HeadingID": 11222,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11222,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 420209,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We should forward the letter from the Executive and say that, in the circumstances, the petition should be forwarded directly to the Executive for its comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2389
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11225,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ID": 11225,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 420237,
      "EditedText": "I would rather wait and have copies of the documents; it would be easier if we had photocopies of them. One might have wished to raise some points, but it is difficult to ask specific questions without the documents being available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 286264,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is our inquiry into community care, focusing particularly on care of the elderly and those with mental health problems.Members have seen copies of the relevant paperwork. We have asked people to send submissions to the committee, and I thank those people and organisations—68 to date—that have already done so. Other organisations want to contribute to the inquiry and members will see that the Scottish Community Care Forum is currently considering the implementation of modernising measures in community care. The forum's action plan involves its 42 local forums, and I would like to give the forum the opportunity to give us the information that it is gathering.There has been much interest in the issue. I am keen to ensure that we do not duplicate effort. I am aware that the Executive is undertaking certain work on community care, and Iain Gray made an announcement in the chamber last week about joint futures and the consultation work that is being done. I have asked the Executive for a copy of its work load plan, which we should receive by tomorrow. That will give us an indication of what the Executive will be doing, and I have asked our researchers to ensure that we can get best value for our time by finding the best areas for us to focus on.Members will remember that we discussed the need to consider the Sutherland report, on which Iain Gray and members of the Westminster Parliament have commented. We also noted that we were interested in resource transfer issues; that is a crucial area for us to examine. There is a continuing discussion about how co-ordination between the health service, the social services and local authorities can be achieved, and about how the barriers between the health pound and the social services pound can be broken down.We have asked people who have made submissions to give examples of best practice. It is easy for us always to see the negative, in this as in many other issues, but we should look for examples of best practice and share them with others. We should trumpet the fact that good work is being done in community care throughout Scotland by dedicated professionals. We must establish how people can be given the most appropriate care, in their own homes in the community, or in hospitals or residential homes.Having discussed matters with the researchers and having looked at committee reports from the House of Commons, I think that we need a long time scale for the inquiry. I suggest a period of between nine months and a year, and I invite members to comment on that suggestion.I also want to hear members' thoughts on whether we require an adviser. As we want to focus on care of the elderly and on mental health care, as well as looking at the overall picture, one adviser may not be enough. Given the length of time involved, it may be difficult to find a person of high calibre who is able to make such a time commitment to the committee. It may therefore be easier to appoint more than one adviser. Our report on the process for carrying out the community care inquiry suggests the names of a couple of people who we might want to invite to a briefing session before getting down to the nuts and bolts of taking evidence from witnesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 286272,
      "EditedText": "When we have the informal briefing day we will be able to ask what other people consider to be the key issues—issues that may not have been worked on. We will also be able to use our expert advisers or adviser to focus our minds on ways of working as constructively and timeously as we can, to do the subject justice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 286278,
      "EditedText": "When we get round to the witnesses, we will have agreed how to deal with them. I assume that we will not simply ask them about the pros and cons of what they are doing at the moment, but look for positive ideas for the future. We should also ask the witnesses about their shopping or wish lists—how much more would they need for X, Y and Z? We will have to get down to specifics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 286279,
      "EditedText": "This is the initial stage; as we do more reading and gather more information, we will form a much better idea of the questions that we will want to ask. As I said at the start of the meeting, Dorothy-Grace, we all know the anecdotal evidence of where community care falls down, because that is when people come to us. However, we do not want to go simply on anecdotes: the difficult thing will be to get a more balanced view of what is happening. Part of that balanced view will be finding out which local authorities and health boards are getting things right and, if their peers think that they are getting things right, whether their ideas can be used elsewhere. That will form an important part of any committee report into community care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 286282,
      "EditedText": "May I also request that Help the Aged is—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 286285,
      "EditedText": "I forgot to mention that I asked the researchers—at the meeting I had with them last week—to come back to us with efficient ways of going out and meeting people, and to find out whether it would be better to do that in sub-groups. We will get that information.I also asked what kind of organisations we should meet and how to use our time in the most productive way. Hugh Henry might not have been here when I said this, but I asked the researchers to tell us how long—realistically—they felt that it would take us to produce a full report that would be useful. I asked them to take into account the time that Westminster committees had taken to consider community care. We could spend just two months on it but, frankly, that would not do justice to the issue.I agree that we could split into sub-groups, but there is also an argument for the whole committee meeting to take evidence—whether in Edinburgh or elsewhere. In the suggested time frame, there is a great deal of scope for us to take evidence in different ways. There are ways that we have yet to try—such as public forums and going out of Edinburgh. I have asked the researchers to indicate to us how we might take such ideas forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 286293,
      "EditedText": "I cannot be 100 per cent certain, but I think that the time frame mirrors the one that the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee has for the study of economic development agencies. That committee is taking a similar approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 286297,
      "EditedText": "I made a statement about that at the start of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 286298,
      "EditedText": "That continues to concern me. When I look at the list of possible witnesses I think, \"Oh, no\", because many of those organisations represent only one of the four groups that I mentioned. It might be helpful if we start by considering what the users want. Mary Scanlon is right to emphasise that we must be careful not to focus on one group. A range of people must be considered. There is, for example, no organisation that represents young people on the list. We should put people into sections—for example, service users and service planners. Some organisations will straddle those categories, so they should be offered the opportunity to indicate whether they want to be consulted as planners or as providers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 286305,
      "EditedText": "I do not accept that. Dorothy-Grace Elder is demeaning what we are trying to do. If we are examining delivery of community care, we should use the local authority boundary and the health board boundary. What we should find—and I do not know whether we will find it everywhere—is equity of treatment.If we examine the issue too far down the chain, we will not get the picture that we want. The scale will be too small for conclusions to be drawn from our inquiry. If we consider cities, such as Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburgh, we should examine a health board that has a good mix of urban and rural areas. There are many authorities like that; I could suggest one now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 286306,
      "EditedText": "We are getting too complicated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 286312,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to have someone from the Accounts Commission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C286313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 286313,
      "EditedText": "Why have we listed the past president of the Association of Directors of Social Work, rather than the current one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 286317,
      "EditedText": "Why?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 286318,
      "EditedText": "It is a major care organisation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C286320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 286320,
      "EditedText": "That is all right, but the fact that \"only\" is underlined and written in bold in the recommendation—that may please some people—suggests that we will not consider much else next year. We have to create space for other subjects. We will do that either by meeting weekly or by sometimes using the fortnightly meeting for other subjects. I am concerned about blocking the committee for such a long time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 286323,
      "EditedText": "Weekly meetings have been the reality of the work load that has been requested of us. We have ended up meeting more frequently than was intended. Committees are meeting more frequently than the planners of the Parliament anticipated. It might be nice to return to meeting fortnightly, but do members think that that will really happen? I am a pragmatic person. We have to assume that our present work load is similar to what we will have to deal with. We will have to address the issue of adults with incapacity, and to review statutory instruments, which usually have time limits; do other members feel that we should move to a fortnightly cycle of meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 286326,
      "EditedText": "Can I ask the Executive to pay the heating bill so that we can get it back on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 286327,
      "EditedText": "Do you think it is trying to freeze us out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 286329,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on timetabling?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 286331,
      "EditedText": "Never mind the travel. I am on two committees—the other is the Audit Committee. Given the amount of reading and preparation that I have to do for both committees and the fact that the Audit Committee has decided to meet fortnightly and hold briefings in the weeks in between, if this committee meets weekly I may as well move through to Edinburgh. That is not what we planned for. We talked about having a family-friendly Parliament. We will not have families if we continue as we are.It is incumbent on us to discipline ourselves a bit more. Some committees have done that better than we have. We need to learn. It is not down to who organises or chairs meetings; it is down to us to say that we do not need to say something, as somebody else has already said it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 286332,
      "EditedText": "I take those comments on board. We will revisit this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 286343,
      "EditedText": "That is why the recommendation is for advisers. Does everyone agree?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 286344,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 286345,
      "EditedText": "The submissions that we have received are available for collection at the back of the chamber. There are two folders, for which you will have to sign. Merry Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 286353,
      "EditedText": "If we are suggesting that we pass this matter on to the health minister, we should understand that there are 27 NHS trusts with 27 sets of procedures, and there are health boards. We might tell the minister that we are failing because there are so many different procedures—some are very good, others are not—and that the complaints procedure needs to be re-evaluated, as I think it will be. Clinical governance will certainly have an impact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C286354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 286354,
      "EditedText": "We could suggest that the Scottish Executive consider implementing a consistent complaints procedure so that there is some assurance that there is consistent treatment across the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 286355,
      "EditedText": "Margaret Jamieson's point is well made; clinical governance will make it even more important to have a consistent procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 286360,
      "EditedText": "We must not get involved in the detail of complaints. That is very important. The petition is backed by the evidence on the individual case, but we cannot get involved in any individual case or the committee will spend all its time on such issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 7567,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ID": 7567,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 286366,
      "EditedText": "Like many members of the committee, I had a meeting recently with the Haemophilia Society. I was unable to make the initial meeting because of a televisual link, which I think was a first, of all the Assemblies and Parliaments in the UK on AIDS. Richard Simpson and I met the society later. The society proposed that the committee undertake a full public inquiry into people with haemophilia who have been infected with hepatitis C. I said that I do not think that the committee is the way to do that, given our work load, our limited resources and because the Minister for Health and Community Care and her department are undertaking an internal review. It is better to wait until that report has been put together than to start another inquiry or to call for anyone else to do so. I recognise that members of the Haemophilia Society do not see the Executive's internal review as an independent, public inquiry, but I nevertheless said that it was better for us to await its outcome. Copies of the internal report will be given to the society and to the committee. I suggest that we consider the matter then and, if we feel that there are issues outstanding, decide what needs to be done, either by the Executive or as a public inquiry. Does the committee agree with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 7567,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ID": 7567,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 286368,
      "EditedText": "I am sure many of us are cynical about internal reports by the Department of Health in London, so we will study this one very carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 7567,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ID": 7567,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 286369,
      "EditedText": "This one is in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 7567,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ID": 7567,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 286370,
      "EditedText": "It is an internal report that Susan Deacon instigated following a meeting with the society."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ID": 7568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 286373,
      "EditedText": "The agenda item on subordinate legislation has been removed. It was put in because we want to be helpful on the beef-on-the-bone ban and, following the Minister for Health and Community Care's comments in the Parliament last week, it was possible that we might have to consider a statutory instrument on the matter, but we do not.The final item is the report on the Stracathro petition and we have agreed that we will take it in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 286263,
      "EditedText": "Good morning and welcome to this meeting of the Health and Community Care Committee.Before we begin our first item of business, I want to put something on record. We spent some considerable time and effort putting together our robust report on the Arbuthnott report, and I thank committee members for their work. Several members have expressed their concerns about the suggestion that our report may have been leaked, and about some of the comments by special advisers and the attitude of the Executive. As convener, I am taking those matters further with parliamentary officers, and I will meet one of the presiding officers this afternoon to discuss them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 286267,
      "EditedText": "To conduct the inquiry over a period of nine months to a year is the best approach. We do not want to feel rushed and, as is evident from the number of submissions that we have received, community care is an issue of great concern throughout Scotland. We should take our time about this and get it right. I am sure that there is not a member here who has not had letters from constituents about community care problems. A half-day briefing is also a good idea and an adviser or advisers may emerge from that briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 286268,
      "EditedText": "The inquiry is our opportunity to set our own agenda and our own time frame. Until now, we have been unable to do that because most of our work has been done to the Executive's or the Parliament's timetable. Doing justice to the community care issue will require time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C286269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 286269,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we must do a detailed report, and that will take a long time. My first reaction to your suggested time scale was that it was too long. I was thinking along the lines of producing something before the summer recess, but I am open to persuasion. A long study has two advantages—the result should be better, and we would be able to do other things simultaneously. I would not like the inquiry to block our timetable like some new variant of bedblocking. With the proviso that we can continue to do other things, the suggested period would be acceptable.We must consider carefully how to handle the inquiry. We have highlighted two main areas, but do we want to consider them simultaneously or consider one of them first and come to some conclusions before the end of the inquiry period? I am thinking aloud here, but I like to think that we could produce something by the summer, otherwise there will be a long gap with no formal reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 286274,
      "EditedText": "If members are happy for us to go ahead and have the informal briefing, some of these points will be resolved once we focus on the issues. There have been 68 submissions already; I have not had them put on your desks today, because they will require careful study that will take up the best part of your Christmas break. That reading, together with any independent reading that members want to do, and the information that we gather during the informal briefing day, will help us to decide how to approach our inquiry and whether we want to split the work into sections."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 286275,
      "EditedText": "Two Accounts Commission reports were published in 1997, and it seems appropriate for the committee, in principle, to establish a system of looking at such reports two years after publication to see what effect they have had.One of those reports mirrored a previous one from, I think, 1992, and showed that there had been no movement since then. We need to question very closely what is happening. One of the reports, \"Shifting the Balance\", is linked to an area that the committee has already agreed it should address—the transfer of resources. The other one is \"The Commissioning Maze\", which considers the barriers across different agencies, something about which the committee—quite correctly—has indicated concern, with pooled budgets perhaps being the preferred practice. The latest paper is the Scottish Office action plan, \"Modernising Community Care\". That would be a useful starting point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 286277,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly what I was about to suggest—that would be excellent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 286281,
      "EditedText": "That is a very valid point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 286283,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, Dorothy-Grace—I had indicated to Hugh Henry that he could speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C286284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
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      "ID": 7565,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 286284,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. There are a number of principles in the researchers' report that need to be looked at. I am not sure about the value of spending such a huge amount of time on one specific issue. We are talking about meeting fortnightly for between nine months and a year; that would limit the committee's ability to consider other issues during that time.What is the purpose of the inquiry that we are undertaking? We should not attempt to do what others are attempting to do. This is not a royal commission into community care. We need to be clear about what we are expected to do, and what outcome is expected at the end of our endeavours. I would hate to spend six or nine months producing a report that was then given the same status as a report from one of the organisations that we will be talking to. We have already seen some evidence that that could happen. We must also ask ourselves how we will cope with the many other important health issues that will come up in the next six to nine months.Instead of working together as a committee fortnightly, we could divide up the work and have small groups undertaking some of the research. Some other committees are doing something similar, with small groups going out to meet a range of organisations and feeding the information back to the committee. I have expressed the view before that we could probably get much more work done that way, rather than by the whole committee meeting every single organisation. I fear that we may appear to be impotent if we are seen to be doing nothing but meeting fortnightly in Edinburgh with an uncertain outcome. If the committee considers more carefully how it uses its time, it has the potential to be more influential."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 286286,
      "EditedText": "I can see the benefit of our going to an area and taking evidence from a group of people that includes, for example, the local health board and the local social work department, instead of organisations coming here to give evidence formally. We could take evidence during discussion sessions; I think that that would give us a better picture of where the problems are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 286287,
      "EditedText": "That is the sort of idea that I had in mind, and I think that that could be productive, especially on the issue of community care. Issues of joint working and partnership might come up in a round-the-table discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 286289,
      "EditedText": "I have asked the researchers to let us know about that. Having set things in motion with the briefing day and an agreement that we should have advisers, we will be able to consider in January how to proceed. I am not wedded to the suggested time frame. As I said, that will depend on the work that other people are doing. We do not yet have information on that to hand, and we cannot second-guess it. However, we should take cognisance of what the Executive and people at our informal briefing say. If they say that the Executive or some academics at the University of Aberdeen are already doing a particular piece of work, there would be no point in our duplicating it. We have to be sensitive to what others are doing to ensure that we spend our time as productively as we can. That might affect our time frame.Community care is a very important issue and we will require a certain amount of time to consider it. As we will not discuss it at every meeting, the suggested time frame is reasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 286290,
      "EditedText": "The time frame is sensible. It will enable the clerk and others to plan ahead and will allow the committee to do witnesses the courtesy of letting them know well in advance that they will be giving evidence. I would further suggest that we try to give witnesses a longer period in which to give evidence.Looking at the list of organisations, it seems that the organisations' headquarters are either in Edinburgh or Glasgow. I put in a plea for us to go to community halls and schemes. It is easy to take evidence from the Royal College of Physicians in delightful surroundings. We should go into the schemes, where there is so much need in community care. That will show the intention of the Parliament to be truly local."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 286292,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful to take evidence in a village hall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
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      "ID": 7565,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 286299,
      "EditedText": "As the report on the process for carrying out the inquiry says, the list of potential witnesses is not exhaustive. Members can e-mail me to suggest other groups that should be consulted.Many of the issues about how we should proceed most effectively will become clearer once we have done the reading and had the informal briefing. By then we will also know what the Executive work load and timetable is. We will become clearer as to the best focus and how we should timetable this inquiry; whether it is best to work in sub-groups, or to work in full committee most of the time, and whether we should produce interim reports. We will also be able to consider some of the options for interfacing with people in different ways, as until now we have always asked people to come to the committee to speak to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 286300,
      "EditedText": "That is important. We must consider the different needs of the mentally ill and the elderly. I probably talk more about the care of the elderly because that tends to be top of the agenda. The mentally ill are very much the Cinderella part of the health service. They have not had the care and attention that they deserve for many decades. I would not like the mentally ill to be lumped in with other groups, as their needs are specific."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 286302,
      "EditedText": "I could not agree more with what Margaret Jamieson said about people coming at this issue from a different perspective. We should consider separating people into users, planners and deliverers.We should also consider my original suggestion, which was to examine geographic groupings and to have discussions with people in various areas. I warn the committee not to fall into the trap of saying that we will go out and do village halls or schemes, because it might well be that community care is not such a big issue in a scheme as it is elsewhere.We should not have a preconceived notion that it would be good to be seen in a scheme or a village hall. We should first consider where the problems are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 286303,
      "EditedText": "Whenever we go out to have meetings or to ask people questions, the bottom line is that we must ask ourselves what the value is and whether we are doing it as a public relations stunt. Is there a way in which we can get access to information by going to speak informally to people in Lanarkshire, for example, about how their system works on the ground? In that way, will we get better quality information from people than if we ask them to come to the committee? If we can say, \"Yes, we will\"—and I think that we probably could—we should take that option. We should not go to Lanarkshire because it would be a good PR stunt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 286308,
      "EditedText": "Local authority and health board level is where community care must be done properly. That is the key level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 286309,
      "EditedText": "Margaret Jamieson was right to mention young people. Enable, and other organisations that deal with all age groups, are on the list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C286311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 286311,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we invite Caroline Gardner, head of health at the Accounts Commission, to the initial briefing. She has produced several reports on mental health."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 286321,
      "EditedText": "If we take out \"only\", is everyone happier with the recommendation?The time scale has to be fairly fluid. I think that the recommendation offers a good way forward as it allows members to focus on the work in hand, rather than obliging the committee to deal with eclectic agendas at short notice. If we find, after a couple of months, that there are problems with that way of working—we seem to find problems with most systems in this place—we can review it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C286322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 286322,
      "EditedText": "In effect, you are saying that we will meet weekly. I do not think that that is a sensible proposition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 286324,
      "EditedText": "This is very difficult. I would like us to set out—this may be impossible—whom we will meet and what we will do every fortnight for the next six months. There should be a much better framework for planning. If we had that, we could cope better with the additional work load. Fortunately, I am a member only of this committee, but keeping up to date with its work is still challenging.We might find that we exhaust all our sources of reference within three months. The inquiry does not have to last six months or a year. We should plan whom we will see, what we will do, and from whom we will take information. Consider the information that we gathered on the Arbuthnott report: we produced an in-depth, robust report. Instead of trying to imagine what will happen in the future, can we set down a framework and a plan? The recommended time scale is a bit too haphazard. It is difficult for me because I come to meetings from Inverness. The time scale should be planned a bit more formally, and there should be a bit more structure, so that we can allocate our time efficiently each week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 286325,
      "EditedText": "The recommended time scale is an attempt to do that, given that we have much more ownership of the agenda and time frame for this inquiry. Interruption. You are not leaving us already, Kay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 286330,
      "EditedText": "We should start out as suggested, with weekly meetings, but be prepared to change as we go along, according to the wishes of members. There must be concern for people such as Mary Scanlon and Margaret Jamieson, who have a fair distance to travel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 286333,
      "EditedText": "Can I make a plea for meetings not to clash with one another? I have had a peculiar problem because I have been on three committees, but even being on two committees is difficult. This morning I was supposed to attend a Finance Committee meeting, which was of considerable importance. I find it hard to say no to either committee—it is an impossible position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 286334,
      "EditedText": "I will put on hold the decision on the timetable. The reason for planning to conduct the inquiry at alternate meetings was to create a structure for members. I will take on board what members have said. In reality, we have held meetings weekly, some of which have been dropped on us at short notice. I think that the short notice has contributed to many of the problems. Although everybody else is commenting on the issue, as convener, I am the only person who has had a 100 per cent attendance record during every single minute of every single meeting—obviously because there has been no alternative.Some of the reasons for meeting at short notice will be dealt with. The Procedures Committee will consider how much time committees are given for statutory instruments—it will do so partly because of what this committee has said, as we seem to be one of the committees that has to deal with a lot of statutory instruments. We will leave the matter of timetabling. I will take soundings from members, and try to find a way to conduct the inquiry without meeting weekly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 286336,
      "EditedText": "We have been under a lot of pressure due to stern deadlines and a major piece of work on the Arbuthnott report, so we cannot be blamed for meeting weekly so far. Although we will soon have work on adults with incapacity, the pressure may ease in two or three months' time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 286337,
      "EditedText": "I doubt it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 286338,
      "EditedText": "Do not hold your breath. Where we have power over our timetable, we should not push ourselves to do in three months what we should take nine months to do. We will put the timetable on hold and I will get further information from members and others.Can we agree that that the committee should hold an induction briefing session early in the new year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 286340,
      "EditedText": "That will allow the clerks and researchers to make arrangements.Are we happy that the researchers should continue to examine the possibility of the committee appointing an adviser or advisers to assist in the inquiry? Do you we need an adviser or advisers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 286341,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C286351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 286351,
      "EditedText": "Another option—I hesitate to mention it, as we already have three reporters—is for one of us to examine this issue. However, we are heavily loaded with issues. It is an important issue, which will have to be addressed in the fairly near future. Apart from appointing a reporter, this committee cannot do very much on it at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 286357,
      "EditedText": "I support that. We should ask the Executive to look at it. We should not duplicate the work that is being done at Westminster. A number of issues are raised by the petition, one of which is that there are separate complaints procedures for primary care teams and for trusts and, as the case in question demonstrates, serious complaints usually relate to both. We should ask the Executive to look at the Westminster report, at how the complaints procedure is working in Scotland and particularly at how the system is working in relation to the new structures that came in on 1 April 1999."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 286363,
      "EditedText": "As Margaret said, we must aim for consistency. We should remember that the point at which people make a complaint against the health service is usually one of great stress for them—they are likely to be lay people up against clinical issues on which they may have had very little information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 286364,
      "EditedText": "That is usually where the complaint starts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 286365,
      "EditedText": "We will ask the Executive to consider it, in terms of the points raised about the complaints system, bearing in mind that with the advent of clinical governance it will be a very important issue. We should send a copy of the Official Report of this discussion to the Executive so that it can see what our thinking on the matter is. We should suggest that it pay attention to the Westminster inquiry and present a complaints system that serves patients as well as the health service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 7567,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ID": 7567,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 286367,
      "EditedText": "I will write to the Minister for Health and Community Care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 7567,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ID": 7567,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 286372,
      "EditedText": "The issue of hepatitis C infection affects people outwith Scotland, but people with haemophilia here appear to have been infected via the Blood Transfusion Service at least a year earlier than people in other parts of the UK. We will come back to this subject when the internal report is made available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 286262,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:03"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 286265,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we know exactly what the Executive plans to do. I found what Iain Gray said last week a wee bit vague. He picked up on Sutherland's idea of a commission, but we need to know what more the Executive plans to do. There is no point in us duplicating other work, but I think you said that he will send us a work plan by tomorrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 286266,
      "EditedText": "That is right. You may recall that, because we had only a short time to consider the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, which came to us late, we were unable to meet Susan Deacon and Iain Gray when we had hoped to. Rather than inviting them back to another meeting, we suggested that they send us their work plan for the coming year by tomorrow. That should give us a big-brush picture of what they will be doing. In approaching the inquiry, I am anxious to avoid duplication of effort and to make best use of our time. Fruitful use of our time will add value to the Executive's work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 286270,
      "EditedText": "There is nothing to stop us publishing an interim report. My two main reasons for a longer time scale are that the issue demands full consideration and that similar reports on community care have been conducted over a long period. The 1996-97 Scottish Affairs Select Committee report on community care, which is still quoted, took around a year to produce. We are a hybrid committee and have other things to do besides considering a particular inquiry.I suggest that we alternate our meetings, having a community care meeting one week and another meeting the following week at which we consider other issues. Other items will come our way as we go along, and it would be sensible to see how that arrangement might work in practice. If, after a couple of months, we find that it is not working, there is nothing to stop us changing our arrangements. However, I think that it might be a good way of focusing people's thoughts, in advance of each meeting, on the subject for the day. That would be better than having a full agenda of six or seven different items.There is nothing to stop us having an interim report. Like Malcolm Chisholm, I am open to persuasion. If someone can give me a good reason why we do not require as much time—perhaps because our remit narrows as a result of what the Executive is doing—we may reconsider the time scale. As I said, I asked the researchers to consider the time scale and they have come back to me with their recommendation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C286271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 286271,
      "EditedText": "As we go along, our work may break down into two or three smaller reports. We may produce a report on mental health, another on the Sutherland commission, or whatever. We cannot predict what will come up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 286273,
      "EditedText": "There will be some difficulty in breaking down our work, because almost all the potential witnesses cross over, for example between young and older people's issues. I am trying to puzzle out how we could break our work down in order to produce an interim report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 286276,
      "EditedText": "I have a suggestion that picks up on that point. We have identified the Accounts Commission as possible witnesses to the inquiry, but no one on our suggested list for the briefing day is specifically considering resource issues. It would be a good idea to have the Accounts Commission in as early as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 286280,
      "EditedText": "It has come to light that community care delivery varies a great deal, depending on where you live. Resource transfer also varies. We will have to hear all sides of those arguments and discover why things go well in some parts of the country and poorly in others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 286288,
      "EditedText": "Have any of the submissions that we have received been grouped geographically?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 286291,
      "EditedText": "We should also ensure that we hear a witness who can discuss rural community care services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 286294,
      "EditedText": "I will go back to what Hugh Henry said. I support the fact that the inquiry will last for six months, but we should not have haphazard, ad hoc meetings. We should set a time frame for what we are doing that ensures that we do not focus only on the elderly, the mentally ill or the disabled.It is much easier to produce a report if one knows the outcome and what process it is feeding into. Is the Executive bringing in legislation on community care next year? Will our recommendations be part of that process? It would be easier if we could work in partnership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 286295,
      "EditedText": "That is what I said earlier in the meeting. We must try to dovetail with the Executive as much as possible. We expect a response by tomorrow from the Executive regarding its work plan and work load for the coming year. That is why our timetable must be fluid. There is no point in the committee completing a report two months after the Executive has finished consultation.Hugh Henry asked earlier to whom our report will go. My understanding is that it will be a committee report to go before Parliament. It is not being requested by anybody else. It is the committee's report and time is set aside in the chamber for committee reports. Committees are also meant to be able to initiate legislation. If the committee felt especially strongly about a particular aspect of the matter, we could investigate that so far untried possibility.The situation will become clearer when we receive the Executive's response—which we expect tomorrow—on its work plan for the coming year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 286296,
      "EditedText": "I will make one suggestion. We should try to organise our work and where we will go to take evidence. We could be running all over the place. We should examine four distinct aspects. We should consider service users and examine their needs and expectations. We should also consider those who plan the service, those who provide the service and those who deliver it. As a plethora of individuals are giving evidence to the committee, it is likely that someone will take the huff through not being invited or not getting as much time as somebody else. I do not want to read press reports like the ones that followed our efforts last week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 286301,
      "EditedText": "Mary Scanlon is right—many of the issues that will come out in examining mental illness and the elderly will transcend the differences between organisations, individuals and service users, whether those service users are people who have learning difficulties, HIV/AIDS or disabilities of other kinds.In previous discussions, members expressed concern that the Sutherland report seems to have been put to one side, and that how we care for elderly people in the long term does not appear to have been fully addressed. Another concern was that, although we are told that mental health services in Scotland are a priority, anecdotal evidence suggests that it does not seem to get the attention and facilities that it requires. That has been pointed out in the past few weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 286304,
      "EditedText": "We want to indicate openness. A lot of people would find it a formidable challenge to come to this chamber to give testimony. We should encourage people to participate and let them see that we are accessible locally, in the schemes and village halls. If we go to Aberdeen or Glasgow, what is the point of going to some organisation's elegant headquarters? That would be patronising."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 286307,
      "EditedText": "By wanting to take the committee's consideration down into individual communities, Dorothy-Grace detracts from what we are trying to achieve. In one community there could be almost nobody receiving community care; in another a vast majority of the population might receive it or want it. We will not get balance in small communities. If we use the local authority boundary and consider the health board area, that will make our consideration a lot easier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 286310,
      "EditedText": "I am happy for members to make suggestions by e-mail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 286314,
      "EditedText": "I do not know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 286315,
      "EditedText": "George Irving is currently the president of the ADSW. He is my former boss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 286316,
      "EditedText": "I believe that many members will suggest Crossroads, as it is a major care agency. It is an obvious omission, so we might as well save e-mailing time. Do members agree that we should invite it to give evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 286319,
      "EditedText": "We could go on all morning with members suggesting other groups and people. Members should e-mail their suggestions to Jennifer Smart. We can add suggestions to the list and bring it back to the committee for agreement.Hugh Henry asked why we have a past president of ADSW on the list for the half-day briefing. I must confess that researchers, who have been investigating who we should hear on certain issues, made up the list. It might be that that president has an area of expertise that is more relevant to what we are doing than any expertise of the present president of ADSW. I have no idea—I am in the dark on that one.For the time being, do we agree that the inquiry should be completed in about nine months to a year, with the caveat that that may alter due to other factors? We can leave the time scale a bit loose, but in our own minds it will be a mid-term rather than a short-term report. How does the committee feel—bearing in mind the caveat arising from the discussion following Hugh Henry's comments—about considering community care on alternate weeks so that community care is separated from the other business of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 286328,
      "EditedText": "I do not know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 286335,
      "EditedText": "With respect, convener, although you have a family, you live in Edinburgh. Malcolm Chisholm also lives in Edinburgh, but for a number of members, such as Mary Scanlon, Margaret Jamieson and me, who have to travel to get here, meetings at short notice are a nightmare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 286339,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 286342,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we get an adviser on mental health. We have specified the areas of mental health and the elderly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 286346,
      "EditedText": "We have 68 submissions. Are there porters to carry them down the road?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 286347,
      "EditedText": "If you cannot carry them, or you are going elsewhere after the meeting, we will deliver the submissions to your rooms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 286348,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 is a petition from Mr Ooms on the national health service complaints procedure. Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C286349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 286349,
      "EditedText": "This petition raises important issues, although it is not exhaustive. I hesitate to suggest another study, but at some point we will have to examine the complaints procedure. In the past few days, the Health Committee at Westminster has produced an excellent report on procedures related to adverse clinical incidents and outcomes in medical care—there is a UK health complaints procedure at the moment, but it need not be a UK procedure in future. I recommend that report to everybody, as it raises a lot of general concerns, and goes wider than the petition. We should recognise that the petition raises important issues, but that we will want to consider the matter more comprehensively at some future date. It would not be wise to pick out individual problems in the procedures, as it could be argued that there are more general concerns that have not been raised by this petition. We cannot immediately hold a study into this, so there is probably not a lot we can do at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 286350,
      "EditedText": "Is there any other action that we can take? Should we forward this petition to the minister so that she can decide whether there are issues for her to address?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 286352,
      "EditedText": "In the past few weeks, members have asked whether health boards provide the best structure. As we go through our business, we will highlight other issues that we should take time to address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C286356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 286356,
      "EditedText": "My fundamental concern—it has been reflected in other criticisms—is how independent of the trust the complaints procedure is. The main thrust of the Westminster Health Committee's recommendations is that the procedure should be made more independent.I hesitate to mention what is happening at Westminster, but you all know my views so I can probably get away with it. The Department of Health is conducting an investigation into the complaints procedure. We need to look at it in Scotland. Perhaps we can ask the Executive to look at it, but it would be difficult for the committee to do that at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C286358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 286358,
      "EditedText": "We could also ask the Executive to comment on what it sees as the issues raised by the petition and to report back to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 286359,
      "EditedText": "This is an individual complaint. As a non-clinician, it seems to me that although some of it is valuable to us, aspects of it are beyond what the committee should be looking at."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 286361,
      "EditedText": "We must make that point strongly. Each petition that is passed to us will be dealt with on its own merits, but as a general rule it is not our job to become involved with individual cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 7566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 286362,
      "EditedText": "I agree, but this complaint is not isolated. I have two similar cases on my desk, which I am not certain how to progress. One has been through a fatal accident inquiry. We should thank the people who submitted this petition because the headings on their paper summarise most of the main problems inherent in the current procedures. It should not be set aside. People must feel happy about an open, honest, accessible and truthful health service. The Executive should investigate it thoroughly and consider the issue of consistency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 7567,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ID": 7567,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 286371,
      "EditedText": "This is an issue only in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ID": 7568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 286374,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 12:33."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8672692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 241690,
      "EditedText": "My feeling is that the numbers involved will be small. At the moment, when property changes hands, the amount of feuduty that is redeemed is tiny. Landlords will not take legal advice to search through all the feuduties that they are owed. That would probably cost more than the amount of money that they would get. The bill may be working on the assumption that a large number of people will owe a large number of people small amounts of money. It would be different if there were one big landlord who had a lot of properties—for the system to be financially viable, one would need to have a lot of properties before doing the searches and the work that goes with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:45.6242967+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 241706,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that anyone will ever know concrete figures for costs, but my understanding is—and someone from the legal profession may wish to back it up—that when properties change hands, the feuduty is redeemed. The bill allows that to be done for the next two years only; that will not amount to a lot of money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:45.6242967+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 241755,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Andrew Wilson. One way round the problem would be for committees to be briefed by their associated departments. The Rural Affairs Committee, of which I am a member, was given a breakdown of the budget by the finance officers, who told us which parts we could change and which parts they had a say in changing. They had to stick with some parts of their budget, but others they could change. That meeting was helpful, and I am sure that other departments would do the same thing for other committees. We could tell other committees about that as soon as possible, before they started considering the budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:59.0948142+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 241787,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to the subject of the zero sum restriction. Do we have something in our guidance notes that suggests to committees that they should look for areas in their budgets where savings can be made? Perhaps I am living in dreamland to think that they might suggest that, but we want to avoid empire building by committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:59.0948142+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 241803,
      "EditedText": "If the committees are drawing up their budgets, should they not be consulting those organisations? We should tell them to go out and consult too, because they are dealing with the most basic figures. We might take evidence from outside organisations that are at odds with what the committees are doing. Surely they should make that connection rather than us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:59.0948142+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 241660,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:49"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mike Watson): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 241661,
      "EditedText": "I call the ninth meeting of the Finance Committee to order with the usual warning about mobile phones and pagers. I have to apologise in advance for my rather rough throat; I hope that it will not affect my thought processes, but that is for you to decide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 241662,
      "EditedText": "You have something in common with me then, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 241663,
      "EditedText": "Who would have thought it?Dr Richard Simpson and George Lyon have submitted apologies. George has had difficulty in getting to the committee because of ferries.Committee members will have seen the agenda and the attached paperwork. We are required to consider provisions of two Scottish Executive bills, the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill and the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill. Committee members have received copies of the bills and the accompanying memorandums. The committee's role is to examine the financial memorandum and considerations in terms of an increase in existing expenditure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 241665,
      "EditedText": "Which paragraph?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 241669,
      "EditedText": "On the legal aid aspect of the bill, has the relevant authority responded in the consultation about the likely costs of the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 241676,
      "EditedText": "I will note that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 241677,
      "EditedText": "Following Ken Macintosh's point on local government, I am concerned about the costs to the voluntary sector. The bill's provisions seem fine if organisations have a particular contract. The financial memorandum says that the costs will be recoverable, but many of the activities have been undertaken not by contract but on demand. Does that mean that the bill applies only to those voluntary sector organisations that are involved in contracted operations and that, if those organisations do anything voluntarily, they will have no opportunity to recover costs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 241679,
      "EditedText": "I suppose that that is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 241689,
      "EditedText": "In addition, legal aid would be available to individuals—it is surprising that no mention is made of that in the memorandum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 241693,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. Moreover, what can be redeemed is limited. That is fairly clear. My interpretation is that there may be hundreds of claims, but not thousands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6342,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 241696,
      "EditedText": "You are talking in terms of the general style of presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6342,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 241703,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about the provision of an estimate, as in the other two bills that we dealt with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 241704,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what Ken Macintosh said earlier about the burdens on local authorities. In this case, too, we must have some idea of the figures. We have lots of words, but we do not have a feel as to whether the figures involved are £1 million, £10 million or £40 million. We could have a lottery guess about the sums involved.We all accept that we cannot have hard and fast, absolute, precise numbers—that is not what Andrew Wilson was asking for. However, some indication of the scale of the figures would give us an idea of the additional cost burdens arising from the legislation that we were allowing to proceed. That applies as much to the legal aid budget or to the cost to the Scottish Administration as it does to local authority budgets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 241705,
      "EditedText": "Andrew Wilson qualified his suggestion well by saying that an explanation should be given of why no estimates could be made. That would be helpful, not just in terms of our interpreting financial memorandums, but in terms of setting out basic estimates as guidance. We would have to take on board the fact that we could not hold the Scottish Executive to account by saying, \"The cost is nearly double what you estimated,\" because it could say, \"It was only an estimate.\" However, it would not be impractical to ask the Executive to produce such figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 241708,
      "EditedText": "We have made general comments on the two bills that we have looked at this morning; presumably it will be reported that we felt that we were working in the dark, in one form or another. On Andrew Wilson's point, we need to say that, in future, the Finance Committee expects some sort of estimate and would prefer things to be laid out in a certain way. We could work that out among ourselves. We should finish the meeting with that, if it can be incorporated into the agenda. We cannot do much more with these bills."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 241709,
      "EditedText": "Am I right in thinking that we are endorsing the financial memorandum for the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill, but that we will recommend that, for future bills, the costs to local authorities, the Scottish Administration and other bodies, as well as any other costs, be laid out section by section, and that the costs be totalled at the start of the memorandum? Is that the agreed position?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 241727,
      "EditedText": "That is interesting, because the Executive does not believe that it is obliged to supply a briefing on instruments that are under the negative procedure. As John Swinney will know, the issue of the resources to provide information on statutory instruments was raised at the conveners group. The Executive has been trying to palm that off on to the Scottish Parliament information centre; the conveners have objected to that. There is a fundamental question about who should provide information—whether it is presented in person or in the form of written guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 241729,
      "EditedText": "Are we bound by standing orders to pass the instrument in a certain time, given that it is to come into force on 31 December?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 241731,
      "EditedText": "We must be quite clear about the point of principle that you raised, convener. I hear what Sarah Davidson said about the composition of the guidance note, but it is unreasonable of the Executive to expect parliamentary information staff to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 241737,
      "EditedText": "I agree with both those comments. In principle, if the Executive wants the instruments to go through, it should be prepared to provide proper explanations—before the committee, if necessary. In the case of the statutory instrument that we are considering today, the explanatory note is not full enough and the guidance note is much more helpful. I do not have any objections to that instrument, but the principle of having an extra week and a right to call a member of the Executive—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 241738,
      "EditedText": "We seem to be talking about principles, rather than about the specific SSI. I was unaware that the burden fell on the clerks to provide extra information—that should not have happened. The committee seems to agree that, in future, it would expect the Executive either to provide a further explanatory note or, should the committee so decide, to provide someone to explain particular aspects of the instrument. Is that generally agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 241739,
      "EditedText": "Yes"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 241741,
      "EditedText": "We have had two briefing papers on items 4 and 5. We will begin with item 4, on the annual budget process. Members will have seen the paper, which sets out a proposal for a framework to involve the subject committees. It seems to be fairly clear and logical. Do members wish to make any comments? What about the proposal that the committee might want to consider appointing reporters at stage 1? That would be a burden to us as individuals, but it is an important part of the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 241750,
      "EditedText": "That involves a pretty big assumption about the information that will be available to subject committees. Frankly, a level 1 or 2 debate on a previous year's figures is verging on the meaningless. Year on year, subject committees have to acquire a working knowledge of the balance of expenditure, to understand fully the balance of commitments. Committees must be able to understand what underlies the level 1 and level 2 figures in order to be able to recommend to the Executive and to the Finance Committee how those allocations should be shifted. The time scales suggested in the paper seem to be fine, providing that the subject committees have a thorough understanding of how expenditure applies to those broad areas. That will allow the committees to have an informed debate on the issues that they wrestle with on an on-going basis. We need some clarification from the Executive of the information that will be available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 241753,
      "EditedText": "That is a matter for the committees. I sit on the Parliamentary Bureau, and one of the things that has become apparent is that even if time is set aside, bills will suddenly be dropped on committees. Certain committees, such as the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, have a huge queue of legislation—it is difficult for them to plan ahead."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 241754,
      "EditedText": "With respect, there cannot be many things more important than the budget. If the budget is set in a committee's programme, I would expect it to stick. Perhaps in very exceptional circumstances it would be difficult, but I am sure that those will be few and far between."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 241760,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That should be part of our discussion today. We want to know early in the new year that we are in a position to get the conveners together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 241765,
      "EditedText": "We are not bound by the date of early June. We could ask to have the information earlier. If we set an early deadline, perhaps we will get the information by the end of May."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 241767,
      "EditedText": "Would it be wise for us to divide into sub-groups to deal with particular committees? That would allow us to work in parallel and share our findings in this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 241773,
      "EditedText": "I am not keen on compartmentalising ourselves. We have to consider issues across the board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 241784,
      "EditedText": "The production of the guidelines will involve much toil. Perhaps we should discuss them in January, so that we can have firm guidelines as early as possible, if we are to ask the committees to start to examine their budgets in early April."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 241790,
      "EditedText": "We will get that early in the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6344,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 241792,
      "EditedText": "Researchers have already begun to consider the matter, and we hope to have a paper ready for the first or second meeting after the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 241793,
      "EditedText": "Is there anything else on that paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 241794,
      "EditedText": "To return to an issue that was raised a few moments ago, a budget is available for civic participation. At the first meeting, convener, you expressed a desire for the committee to be seen outwith the confines of this fair city. That is something that we might wish to return to. I think that two budgets are available: one for travel and one for civic participation. Given the importance of the budget process to everything that the Executive and the Parliament does, we may wish to take advantage of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 241795,
      "EditedText": "We have to move fairly quickly in deciding how we will do that. As I understand it, it is up to us to take the initiative. Will we receive a paper on how we might proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 241797,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, this would supplement the consultation that the Scottish Executive is doing—or has done—anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 241800,
      "EditedText": "To ensure that we complement it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 241804,
      "EditedText": "First, the minister has already published a glossy consultation document, of which I have several copies. I do not know who it has gone to, but it would be helpful to find out. Secondly, we should decide how long the consultation period should be. Thirdly, we should decide to what level we carry out consultation, because we could be absolutely inundated. Do we go to all voluntary organisations or to the umbrella organisations? That kind of point is tremendously important. It should be a pyramid form of consultation, so that we consult bodies who are consulting their own member organisations or organisations under them. Otherwise, especially if it is advertised, we will be snowed under."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 241809,
      "EditedText": "I am keen to draw this to a conclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 241810,
      "EditedText": "I agree with John's points in global terms. As I said in the chamber the other day, to go out with just level 1 figures, presented in a particular style, does nothing whatsoever for the public debate. People are better off reading newspaper criticism of what has gone on in the committees. This is our first year and we are only feeling our way.I appreciate that we are under pressure to get things done. However, if we were running a large organisation, either in the public sector or the private sector, those responsible for finance, whether it was a finance committee or an individual, would want other departments to come to them with a range of options rather than a final decision. If we were conducting that process publicly anyway, that is perhaps where we should start. If, at the end of the process, we feel that there is a message to put out to national organisations such as the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the association of health trusts and, as Keith Raffan rightly says, other organisations at that level, to get their views on whether the options are up to their expectations, that is fine. However, we should not go on a roadshow just for the sake of it but should have a purpose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6344,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 241814,
      "EditedText": "It will be difficult for us to do any extensive consultation between 20 September and the end of November. It is an continuing process, and once the committees get into it, they may be able to start in the autumn for the following financial year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6344,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 241816,
      "EditedText": "The time scale will constrain that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6344,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 241817,
      "EditedText": "The time scale means that it has to be done on a tight basis, but that is nearly 10 months away. We have an opportunity to begin to plan what shape that process might take."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 241822,
      "EditedText": "By the end of Friday of this week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 241825,
      "EditedText": "One problem is that Stephen Boyle had been away on holiday, which meant that he and Professor Ashcroft had not been able to co-ordinate as much as they would have liked. They were covering different time scales, which made it difficult to compare what each was saying. For future reference, it is important that we encourage them to co-ordinate, particularly when they are making such a presentation, so that we can get more direct comparisons. A number of points in the report are not covered here. For example, Stephen Boyle talked about\"the figures that we received being set out in cash terms. The simplifying assumption that I made was that inflation would be identical across all budget headings for the next three years. That is a hugely simplistic assumption. In some components of the budget, such as pharmaceuticals\"—we were discussing pharmaceuticals, so that is my specific point—\"inflation may be much higher and in others it will be less.\"—Official Report, Finance Committee, 16 November 1999; c 164.That is a crucial point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 241826,
      "EditedText": "This is a serious issue for us. The report should scream, in size 17 font, \"Never ever give us cash-terms figures unless you give us real ones\", because such figures are entirely useless. I have to spend half an hour deflating the figures, which is something I have not done for three years—it is very painful. Everyone else has to do it too, so it is useless getting cash-terms figures. The document that we received in the consultation process is an insult. The Conservatives ceased doing it at one point because it was so preposterous. The report should scream loudly, \"Deflate.\"The next issue that was raised by Keith is how to deflate, because there is no Scottish inflation figure. Is it accurate to use UK-wide ones? Take the health programme, where inflation is running at 12 per cent in some areas. How valuable is that? We can now play a role and say to the Executive that it should consider making some suggestions. If health spending increases by 5 per cent but prices increase by 10 per cent, the volume of purchases has gone down. That is disguised within cash-terms figures and, indeed, real-terms figures, which I guess was Stephen's point. These are serious issues, on which we should make our view known. This report gives us the chance to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 241831,
      "EditedText": "I take it that we will be in committee room 1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 241836,
      "EditedText": "We do not know yet, but Jack McConnell will attend from 11.30 am, and we are entitled to expect him to be here until 1 o'clock if we need him to stay until that time. There has been no indication that he is time-limited. I  therefore advise members to set aside their time until 1 o'clock on Tuesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 241839,
      "EditedText": "It is certainly something that Brian Ashcroft would like to hear more about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 241842,
      "EditedText": "Or there may be points that members may wish to hold back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 241845,
      "EditedText": "I propose to do a draft for members, for consideration at the beginning of next week's meeting, which expands on the points made and reflects on comments made today and in discussion with the witnesses at the previous meeting. I hope that members will be able to comment on the terms of that draft in advance of seeing the minister, and that, after we have heard from the minister, a further draft will be made, reflecting both his response and points made by committee members in discussion. Time has been very tight for members to comment on the draft. We hope to have a draft ready by 3 o'clock or 4 o'clock in the afternoon. That would have to go for publication by about 7 pm. I hope that, next week, we can discuss practical ways in which any members who want to look at the further draft can make an input to it that afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 241846,
      "EditedText": "It therefore occurs to me that we should not plan to get away by 1 o'clock. Even if the minister leaves at 1 pm, the committee will be required to stay a bit longer to continue discussing how we want to supplement the draft report. If members have lunch commitments on Tuesday, please try to get out of them. Will we be able to keep the room beyond 1 o'clock?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 241851,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on that? Thanks, Sarah.I think that we should note the work done by the clerks on this. It was very difficult to fit this report in, given the time constraints. We are on course to do it, albeit rather frenetically, but it will be achieved, for which I would like to convey the committee's thanks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 241852,
      "EditedText": "The last item on the agenda is the written agreements with the Scottish Executive. The draft agreement and minister's letter have been circulated. if members have those in front of them, I would like to go through them on a paragraph-by-paragraph basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 241858,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not think so. He says:\"there is no fixed definition\".It is not a question of what proportion the £3 million is of an entire budget; it is simply a very vague guideline. The minister is saying that there is no fixed definition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 241862,
      "EditedText": "Before we go into recess?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 241869,
      "EditedText": "I do not really think that this is an issue, convener. We can put this in the context of the budget head within which it lies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 241874,
      "EditedText": "What?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 241875,
      "EditedText": "I am on the paragraph at the top of page 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 241886,
      "EditedText": "It would also be unacceptable if there were two public documents—the cash-terms document and the real-terms document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 241888,
      "EditedText": "That is my reading too. We can ask the Minister for Finance about the documents next week, but I assumed that they would be the equivalent of the budget document and the red book, which is another public document. If a document is available to the Finance Committee, it will be available to everyone.We do not want to make the budget document unreadable. However, the budget document is a presentation of arguments, such as why the Executive might go for environmental measures, and trends and other material. It is a policy document as much as anything else. It would not necessarily be suited to lists and lists of tables. The red book is a book of statistics, which we need, but it is not necessarily what the Government should churn out for the public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241890",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 241890,
      "EditedText": "Will committee members be satisfied so long as the documentation is provided publicly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 241893,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is any disagreement. Rhoda Grant and Ken Macintosh made the point about trends—one cannot discern a trend unless one has the figures to show that there has been, for example, an increase of 4 per cent. That is doing the work for the public. I am not hung up about having reams of information, as John Swinney said. I want the basic information set out clearly—real-terms figures with year-on-year changes in money terms and in percentage changes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 241895,
      "EditedText": "That is meaningless. It would benefit the public purse if we sent out one document that contained the information in cash and real terms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 241896,
      "EditedText": "And the year-on-year changes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 241901,
      "EditedText": "He does not say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 241908,
      "EditedText": "The minister has made it quite clear that he will not mislead us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 241909,
      "EditedText": "Saying that he will not mislead us is not enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 241913,
      "EditedText": "In the foreword—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 241916,
      "EditedText": "Unfortunately, we are rather bogged down at this stage. At the last meeting, the committee suggested a change to the document from which the convener has just quoted. To the point on\"statements of the amounts of funding sought\",we wanted to add wording along the lines of, \"in cash and real terms and with year-on-year changes.\" We requested that change and the committee agreed to include it in the budget documents, but the Executive has not changed the document accordingly.The explanation in the document does not alter the fact that those figures will not appear in the documents as we requested. I suggest that we ask again that that bullet point be amended to include the words, \"in cash and real terms and with year-on-year changes.\" That change would add one page to the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 241917,
      "EditedText": "The question is whether the committee is prepared to tell the Government, \"Yes, you can go out and spin a document that is a political policy statement in the best light possible for your own interests.\" The alternative is that we put the real story in real terms for those who are intelligent enough to get down to the nitty-gritty. Our argument must be that whoever picks up the document—the man in the street, a pensioner or someone from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities—should be able to read the truth up front in a form that tells them exactly what the policy means for their daily lives. We cannot back away from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 241921,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 241927,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 241932,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I was taking a comfort break when you skirted over page 2 of the letter, which deals with page 4 of the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 241933,
      "EditedText": "Which document is Andrew Wilson referring to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ContributionID": 241938,
      "EditedText": "No. From \"but\" to \"necessary\" should be deleted. It was not an erroneous \"but\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 573.0,
      "ContributionID": 241940,
      "EditedText": "The FIAG report was written before the absolute disaster of the first few months of the Parliament. The motivation behind the suggestion, which found agreement at our previous meeting, was that we did not want an unholy scrap between the Executive and the Parliament over the Parliament's budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 589.0,
      "ContributionID": 241948,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that this is a huge issue. The paragraph says that the Executive may lodge a motion; it does not say that it will lodge a motion—that is an option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 591.0,
      "ContributionID": 241949,
      "EditedText": "Presumably the provision is designed to enable a bit of flexibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 593.0,
      "ContributionID": 241950,
      "EditedText": "On whose part?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 599.0,
      "ContributionID": 241953,
      "EditedText": "So the Executive could still do it if it were so minded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 611.0,
      "ContributionID": 241959,
      "EditedText": "This is not a major issue; we should reach some consensus. Do you want the committee to retain the position that it has adopted until now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 619.0,
      "ContributionID": 241963,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. That form of words is not perfect, but it is better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 621.0,
      "ContributionID": 241964,
      "EditedText": "Is it better than not having the phrase at all?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241969",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "ID": 2142,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 631.0,
      "ContributionID": 241969,
      "EditedText": "The suggestion is that a motion to discuss these matters could be lodged following discussion with the corporate body. I am coming round to the view that we should delete the added phrase, as that is the tidiest way of achieving the meaning that we want. If the Executive wants to lodge a motion, it can do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241971",
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      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 635.0,
      "ContributionID": 241971,
      "EditedText": "I cannot see any way around this issue, as there is no agreement other than maintaining the committee's position. Is that acceptable?"
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    "ID": "C241972",
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      "ContributionID": 241972,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241976",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 645.0,
      "ContributionID": 241976,
      "EditedText": "The Executive has that information. It is a question of—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241978",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 649.0,
      "ContributionID": 241978,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that the information should be grouped by sector, which would allow us to look at projects—such as schools, for the sake of argument—in a grouping. That would give us the details and some kind of comparison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241980",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 653.0,
      "ContributionID": 241980,
      "EditedText": "So we want to insert the word \"grouped\" between \"costs\" and \"by\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241982",
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      "ID": 130
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 657.0,
      "ContributionID": 241982,
      "EditedText": "So there are two words to be inserted: \"individual\" and \"grouped\". That concludes that item and, indeed, the meeting."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241983",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 659.0,
      "ContributionID": 241983,
      "EditedText": "Is there an item for any other business?"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241988",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 241988,
      "EditedText": "There is no item on the agenda for any other business."
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  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241989",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 671.0,
      "ContributionID": 241989,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order, convener, I want to raise a couple of points. They may be points of information that I could raise separately with the clerk, but we should have an item for any other business on future agendas. Other committee members may find it useful to know about the points that I want to raise."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241991",
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      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 241991,
      "EditedText": "I have two points for information—"
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241992",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 677.0,
      "ContributionID": 241992,
      "EditedText": "I close the meeting formally and discharge the official reporters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 679.0,
      "ContributionID": 241993,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:44 ."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 241666,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 405 on page 56. The figures in the list beginning \"Registration of continuing and welfare powers of attorney\"have pound signs attached to them, when in fact they refer to the estimated annual number of cases for each category.The Justice and Home Affairs Committee has commented on the financial memorandum. It said:\"The Bill gives the Mental Welfare Commission additional functions, and the Executive has provided an estimate of the resulting additional costs (paragraph 420 of the Financial Memorandum). We were surprised to learn, however, that the Commission had not been consulted on what those costs might be . . . That strikes us as a failure in the consultation process.\"Does any member wish to comment on this bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 241667,
      "EditedText": "The word \"estimated\" appears in paragraph after paragraph of the financial memorandum. Has the committee been given any indication of the firmness of the financial prediction?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 241671,
      "EditedText": "My question simply follows up the comment from the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 241674,
      "EditedText": "Are there any further comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 241675,
      "EditedText": "The financial memorandum refers several times to costs to local authorities. It recognises that there will be an extra major cost to local government and says that future funding will be adjusted to take account of that. I have concerns about that, because local government is constantly being loaded down with extra statutory duties without being given the extra finance to pay for them. Such extra funding could well disappear into the ether in future local government settlements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 241678,
      "EditedText": "I note your point about the costs being recoverable; those costs may not only be \"the contract price for the service\"as the financial memorandum states. The voluntary sector may not necessarily be fully able to recover costs. On occasion, certain services may not be required if there are additional costs. As someone with an interest in the voluntary sector, I would also be concerned about that.We can comment only on the specific costs and not on the principles behind the bill that might give rise to those costs. The committee has to decide whether the estimated costs are reasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 241680,
      "EditedText": "Notwithstanding various members' comments, are we prepared to accept that the estimated costs are reasonable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 241681,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 241685,
      "EditedText": "On that point, paragraph 242 of the financial memorandum states:\"It would be a monumental task to search the property registers, the Register of Sasines and the Land Register of Scotland, in order to identify the total number of superiority interests in Scotland.\"That is a fair comment, but it suggests that the issue at stake is large and unquantifiable, so we are not in much of a position to judge it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 241688,
      "EditedText": "The figures are vague. The second part of paragraph 242 says that it is\"impossible to anticipate the reaction of these superiors\".There will be a lot of legal searching, which will not be free; it will be done for residents of tenement blocks as well as for landlords who are going through their portfolios. We will end up with a large number of people making claims, possibly without having done their homework, on the basis that the cost of responding would fall to someone else.That is relevant if we are to come to a view on the likely cost to the public purse, because in many cases local authorities and other public bodies will be heavily involved. They will definitely be fighting off a number of claims that may not be genuine, but that have a right to be opened up. That will almost certainly affect the budgets of those organisations, because they will have to deal with lots of little, expensive pieces of work. A provisional pot of money should have been provided. Perhaps the Minister for Finance has a value for that pot in his figures somewhere, but we have not got to it yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 241691,
      "EditedText": "Paragraphs 243 states:\"In the case of superiors who have extensive superiority interests, this may involve fairly substantial administrative costs and possibly search fees\".Paragraph 244 states:\"Any of the costs set out above will apply to any superior\".That implies that the cost is not recoverable from the compensation. In other words, the memorandum is implying that, because of the cost, there will not be lots of vexatious searches. One gets the impression that the cost would put off virtually everyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 241697,
      "EditedText": "Yes, because the presentation is not clear. We cannot comment on bills without placing on record our concerns. If this bill were to blow up into a major issue that placed an extra burden on the public purse, we would be culpable because we allowed it to proceed. When the costs are uncertain, we should be given a band within which the costs are expected to fall. Those suggestions may be helpful; other than that, I do not see what we can add to this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 241698,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Andrew Wilson. All the documents that we look at have the same problem—they do not have black and white estimates that are easily assimilated. I would love to have those at the beginning of each document, but I suspect that that would be difficult, if not impossible. This financial memorandum shows that one can make an intelligent, but not firm, estimate of the costs. To put a figure at the beginning of the bill would be misleading, because one may as well ask someone in the street to put a figure on the costs—that is how random the figure would be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 241699,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I agree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 241700,
      "EditedText": "I am overstating the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 241701,
      "EditedText": "For effect, perhaps."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 241702,
      "EditedText": "Possibly. A reasonable attempt has been made to assess the areas that might incur a cost, but it has not been possible for the Executive to provide a hard figure. It would be unreasonable of us to expect it to provide a hard figure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 241711,
      "EditedText": "Yes. When it is not possible to provide such information, as may be the case, there must be an explanation of why not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 241712,
      "EditedText": "The information does not need to be in a table, but we should be given a summary of the costs and where the gaps are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 241713,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 241715,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to item 3 on the agenda, which is the Non-Domestic Rating Contributions (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/153). A supplementary note was sent to committee members by e-mail. The Local Government Committee is the lead committee, and I am informed that it has not yet set a date to consider the regulations. We are not obliged to comment on these regulations, but we may wish to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 241716,
      "EditedText": "Does the supplementary note say simply that the Local Government Committee has not set a date?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 241717,
      "EditedText": "Did you not receive a copy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 241721,
      "EditedText": "Does everyone else have a copy of the supplementary note?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 241722,
      "EditedText": "I have it now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 241724,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is any implication; the committee has simply not set a date to consider the regulations. Presumably it must do so before the Christmas recess, which means by 16 December.We are not obliged to say anything if we do not want to. I am open to the views of committee members. If we want to take more time, we can consider the matter next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 241725,
      "EditedText": "I think that that would be sensible, provided that, in the meantime, the clerks had the opportunity to speak to someone about particular matters that we should be considering."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 241726,
      "EditedText": "One of the points on which I have insisted in the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee is that, where we have a regulation on which we are required to comment, a member of the Executive should be present to answer any specific points. It would be unfair to expect the convener or the clerks to be masters of the regulations. It is for the Executive to explain and answer points about which the committee has concerns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 241728,
      "EditedText": "The guidance note that was circulated in addition to the standard note that is part of the instrument was compiled in consultation with the Executive; most of the information in the note came from the Executive, although it was drafted by the clerks.If, having read the guidance note, members have any questions that they want to put directly to the Executive, we could invite someone to come to the next meeting to answer specific questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 241730,
      "EditedText": "We could consider it next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 241740,
      "EditedText": "There is a meeting of the conveners group this afternoon. Perhaps I can pursue the matter, which was raised at our previous meeting—it seemed to have broad support the last time that it was discussed. In the meantime, we will wave through the Non-Domestic Rating Contributions (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 241742,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with the idea of reporters, although I am worried about other aspects of the paper. At stage 1, when the subject committees are considering the broad strategic approach, they will be operating at level 1 figures. As the paper makes clear, it will be difficult for them to give anything other than a broad direction as to where they think spending priorities should lie. They can refer to the previous year's figures and those will be detailed, but they will still be using large, level 1 figures.That process runs from 31 March to June. That first period is quite lengthy, considering the amount of information that is available to the committees. However, during stage 2, from 20 September to the end of November, the committees will be less in the dark, using more detailed, level 2 figures. The committees will have only two months to work on that. Parliament will have just returned from the summer recess and the conference season intrudes when Parliament's timetable tends to be lighter, yet an awful lot of work is to be done in less time than is allowed for stage 1. Andrew Wilson is frowning—perhaps he disagrees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 241743,
      "EditedText": "It is just the light."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 241745,
      "EditedText": "I agree. I do not think that members of other committees expect to get only level 1 figures at the early stage. Many of them will have been working at another level anyway, on various subsets of the activities of the relevant committee. Is there a particular difficulty for the Executive in producing level 2 figures for this exercise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 241747,
      "EditedText": "Stage 1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 241748,
      "EditedText": "We do not know whether those figures will be available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 241751,
      "EditedText": "I have two points. I know that the Minister for Finance makes it clear that he will try to get the more detailed draft expenditure proposals out before 20 September. It is important that we encourage him to do so, because the earlier that the proposals are available, the better. It might be asking too much for them to be out by late August.July and August are fallow months—nothing will happen in that period. Stage 1 will have been completed and stage 2 will not have started. There is no reason why committees cannot undertake some preparatory work in advance of stage 2, but it is important to get the more detailed expenditure proposals as soon as possible.My second point is that we have to give the committees some guidance on what we want. I am not saying that I am necessarily qualified to do that, but we must give some guidance so that the information that we receive from the committees arrives in the same format. We must also consider the pressures on the subject committees. It has become increasingly apparent that some committees are hugely overburdened. That is why I am worried about the stage 2 time scale. Whether they can find time to consider the more detailed proposals in sufficient depth might depend on what other work they are engaged in at that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 241752,
      "EditedText": "Part of what we are suggesting is that we tell the committees to plan ahead and make time available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6344,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 241756,
      "EditedText": "That could be part of the framework that we supply to all committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 241757,
      "EditedText": "As the lead committee on the budget, are we in a position to take a proposal for action to the conveners committee? That would seem to be efficient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 241772,
      "EditedText": "That is a useful point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 241776,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to have reporters to begin with, so that we have an idea of how different committees are addressing the matter. The edges will be rough to begin with; it might take three or four years before a routine develops.I take John Swinney's point about compartmentalisation. We have access to each committee's Official Report, but we might not have time to read it—we will have a huge amount of information coming in at once. The sooner that we can get the committees to consider the matter, the better. Most of the committee stages of bills will be over by 31 March, so they might have time then. Bills will not come to the committees for stage 2 consideration until early November. The sooner we start and the sooner we get information from the minister, the better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 241786,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 241788,
      "EditedText": "We will probably find that, if a committee believes that savings can be made, it will also have an idea for an alternative use for the resources. Time will tell.Page 2 of the briefing document talks about advisers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 241791,
      "EditedText": "I agree that the suggestions are fine. We will probably be able to decide between several people after having considered their curricula vitae."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 241796,
      "EditedText": "Why do we not feed ideas into the centre and draw together a short note on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 241799,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that there was some mention of that. It would be nice to know exactly what has been done in terms of consultation. We would—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 241801,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. We should ensure that there is no duplication and be clear that there is real value in anything that we choose to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 241802,
      "EditedText": "We might want to consult with different people or organisations. It is important that we know what the Executive is doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 241808,
      "EditedText": "If the Minister for Finance believes that what he has published is a consultation exercise, we have to educate him. The document is nice and colourful, but it is not very informative. It does not have information in real terms and does not provide a degree of debate; it is like a statement of the current position, rather than posing searching questions, challenging any particular thoughts or leading the debate in any way. It is eight pie charts dumped on Scotland, and not even in real terms. That is my only caveat about Rhoda's comments: if that is consultation, I do not think that it is adequate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 241815,
      "EditedText": "Is that the case, Keith? On 20 September, there will be the Executive's view of level 2 figures and, as a result of the consultation exercise in stage 1, there will be the subject committees' view of level 2 figures. Rhoda raises an interesting issue, which is that we, as a committee, may be able to facilitate a debate about who has the best priorities: the subject committees or the Executive. That is a legitimate debate for us to encourage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 241818,
      "EditedText": "We do not have to make final decisions today. The form of civic—or external, if you like—consultation that takes place in 2000-01 does not have to endure after that period. We can see how it goes in that first year. We will expect the committees themselves to consult. Rhoda's suggestion that we should do it in stage 2 is interesting. I am not sure how we should take that forward at this stage. We may have to revisit it when we look at the process again early in the new year. Can we leave it like that just now? Are you happy with that for the moment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 241821,
      "EditedText": "You have had a briefing paper on the 2000-01 expenditure plans. We want to try to pull something from the briefing with Brian Ashcroft and Stephen Boyle that we had three weeks ago and prepare ourselves for next week's meeting with the Minister for Finance.I have been asked to point out that because the cabinet meets on a Tuesday morning, the minister cannot be here before 11.30. If we complete the other business before 11.30, we may take a short adjournment during the meeting. If there are other points on which you require details from the minister to ensure that he is able to comment on them when he comes before us next week, let Sarah know within a reasonable time scale. Sarah, what would be a reasonable time scale for you to transmit those requests to the minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 241823,
      "EditedText": "So, by Friday at the latest. That will give the minister, or his staff, three days to prepare responses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 241824,
      "EditedText": "Given the time scales and the process that we are engaged in here, and the fact that the report has to be written very quickly after the next meeting, this is a helpful kick-off. At this stage in the process, given that we have not had any consultation or real digestion of the figures, the aim of our report should be, perhaps, to set out our concerns or suggestions for improvement in the manner in which we receive information.That issue dominated much of the discussion with Professor Ashcroft and Mr Boyle. That could be where we add value at this stage, rather than in commenting specifically on the budget itself. This note is very helpful—almost everything is captured in it. There are one or two exceptions, which we can cover in discussion, but this is a helpful beginning to the debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 241828,
      "EditedText": "Andrew raised the third bullet point. John has now raised the first one. I think that we accept that those should be the subject of a question to the minister. Does anyone want to comment on any other points in the expenditure proposals report or to raise any other issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 241829,
      "EditedText": "How long will we have with the minister next week? Just an hour and a half, presumably?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 241830,
      "EditedText": "Just an hour, I think."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 241834,
      "EditedText": "It is indeed not necessarily the case: a balance of judgments has to be made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 241835,
      "EditedText": "Will it be in committee room 1 next week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 241838,
      "EditedText": "That is something that we can raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 241840,
      "EditedText": "I should stress that there is no obligation to give the minister advance notice of what we are going to ask him. Members are at liberty to raise any question that comes to mind on the day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 241841,
      "EditedText": "Fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 241844,
      "EditedText": "I wish to ask for clarification from Sarah on the drafting of the report. Do you plan to take the points that we have been talking about into consideration, Sarah, and how do you plan to expand the report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 241847,
      "EditedText": "If not, we can make alternative arrangements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 241853,
      "EditedText": "Do we want to look at the letter first?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 241854,
      "EditedText": "Right, let us start with the letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 241855,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise the point about large capital project. The minister says that he takes\"any project with a value in excess of £3 million to be ‘large' but there is no fixed definition because what is large to one area might be trivial to another.\"He seems to be contradicting himself in the space of one sentence, by saying £3 million is large in one area, but in another area £1 million might be large. I am not sure to what extent that part of the letter clarifies matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 241856,
      "EditedText": "Well, it does not, really."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 241857,
      "EditedText": "Surely the letter refers to dealing with an extremely large budget which runs into hundreds of millions of pounds. In such cases, £3 million is a relatively small proportion. However, if a department has a small budget of £5 million for example, £3 million is a huge proportion. Surely that is what that part of the minister's letter means."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 241861,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would be unsatisfactory to go on from the budget to issues of disagreement next week. We should do one thing at a time. We may have to invite the minister to come on another occasion, before we go into recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 241863,
      "EditedText": "If he wants the things agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 241865,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is clear, but I think that the minister is trying to be helpful, to be fair to him. It is just a question of whether we want to specify a figure lower than £3 million as being large. That is what it comes down to. I am open about it—£3 million is a fairly arbitrary figure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 241866,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, it is difficult to come to a definition. If we want to define a large variation in a variable budget, that enters the realms of deciding whether it is, say, 0.5 per cent of the budget. Formulations of that sort do not work in these situations. I do not think that we can add much, to be honest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 241867,
      "EditedText": "So you think that we should leave it at £3 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 241868,
      "EditedText": "If we cannot find a better figure. I can think of projects in the great scheme of things which had a value of £27 million. That figure would be relatively modest in the context of a large budget. What is £27 million of capital project in the context of a health budget of £3 billion or £4 billion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 241870,
      "EditedText": "I do not imagine that our legitimate line of inquiry will be thwarted because a figure happens not to pass a test of £3 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 241872,
      "EditedText": "The minister seems to have been very co-operative on the format of budget bills' supporting documentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 241873,
      "EditedText": "I take a different view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 241877,
      "EditedText": "Sorry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 241878,
      "EditedText": "The paragraph goes over from page 2 to page 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 241879,
      "EditedText": "The minister says that \"the Budget Documents should contain ‘a comparison between the current proposals and the previous year's figures, in both cash terms and real terms, and that there should be a table showing percentage changes in individual figures from the previous year'. I am quite content to agree to provide this information to the Finance Committee\".Of course, we welcome that. He then goes on to say that \"the inclusion of such information in the budget documents themselves would serve to make them unnecessarily lengthy as far as the public is concerned.\"That goes back to my point about the glossy document. I am afraid that there are some very well informed people out there among the public who can understand the difference between cash terms and real terms. If budget documents for public consultation do not include a real-terms comparison because that is too lengthy for the public to consume, that is a very real issue for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 241880,
      "EditedText": "It is not clear to me what is meant by the information being \"made available separately.\" Do you understand what that means? It could just mean producing another document. I am referring to the last sentence of the paragraph on the format of budget bills' supporting documentation, on page 3 of the letter. That does not say that the information should not be made available; it says that it should be made available separately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 241881,
      "EditedText": "I will express this point as constructively as I can, but it is misleading to produce a budget document in cash terms. The first question that any person asks is, \"How much has health spending increased?\" If the information is there in black and white, good. It does not make budget documents unnecessarily lengthy; forewords make them unnecessarily lengthy. What people need from them are the basic facts. The minister's statement is therefore simply unacceptable, given the committee's strength of feeling on the issue at the last meeting. The documents should express in black and white exactly, and in real terms, what has changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 241883,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the problem comes in making the information available separately. We would then have two volumes of financial documents. I would like us to look at the health budget, for example, for the last financial year and the next financial year in both cash terms and real terms. It is like wallpaper: it is fundamental to what you look at on the wall. We would not have that if there is a different document—not just an appendix but a different document—for the real-terms figures. If we did that, we would be doing nothing to raise the quality of debate and nothing for the public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 241884,
      "EditedText": "I agree with John Swinney and Andrew Wilson on this. It is quite clear: the information will be made available to us separately. In the previous sentence, the minister says that\"the inclusion of such information in the budget documents themselves would serve to make them unnecessarily lengthy as far as the public is concerned.\"So the public will not be privy to the information, but we will. That is how I read it. The documents should be published so as to be easily accessible and comparable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 241885,
      "EditedText": "I did not read the letter in that way. It was not my understanding that the public would get certain information and the committee would get information beyond that. I would not be happy if that were the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 241889,
      "EditedText": "We have two lads, John Swinney and Ken Macintosh, setting out the stalls of the two opposing arguments. We need to ensure that we produce a single document that any organisation can pick up—they will all want to look at the document in Scotland—or that any person can go into the library to read. The red book is extremely complex and takes in taxation statistics and so on, which we do not want. We are talking the same money—the document must be produced for public consumption and it must deal with real-terms spending."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 241891,
      "EditedText": "Ken Macintosh—not me—introduced the argument about the red book. The Government has just announced a consultation exercise on spending plans that does not take inflation into account. To me, that is a fantasy. If I published a document that did not take inflation into account, the Minister for Finance would take me apart, limb by limb.In addition to the cash-terms figures, which the Government obviously believes should be communicated to the public, all I ask is that the figures should be included in real terms, instead of some of the pie charts. There is plenty of room in that document for argument and explanation of the Government's spending strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 241892,
      "EditedText": "That is quite clear—the committee has made that view clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 241894,
      "EditedText": "So, are we saying that we do not mind a separate document, so long as it is a public document and is provided alongside—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 241899,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that people who work in a health trust, for example, whatever their role, would be able to understand whether inflation has been taken into account in the Government's spending figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 241902,
      "EditedText": "Well, he says that the figures will be available to us, which means that they will be publicly available.We are talking about the presentation of Government documents. We have to ensure that the figures are available. I used the red book as an analogy. Anyone who studies the budget picks up the green budget book and the red budget book, one of which is thick and the other thin. What is wrong with having the statistics in a separate book? They will still be available publicly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 241903,
      "EditedText": "Ken cannot have it both ways. We have accepted that the Minister for Finance should lead the consultation exercise on the budget. However, if that has been agreed, we are entitled to say what sort of information should be publicly available. Anyone who logs on to the Government's website to look at the Government's spending plans will find a document with pie charts and no real-terms factors. That is what has happened to date and it is not acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 241910,
      "EditedText": "Andrew's dislike of certain documents does not mean that those documents are misleading. The documents fulfil a certain purpose; in many ways, they are policy documents. One can describe policy in whatever terms are necessary to get the argument across. Just because one does not agree with the way that a policy is described does not mean that a document is misleading. We insist on publishing comparable figures, and I do not see what fault can possibly be found with that. If we can have those figures, anybody can have them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 241911,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to have to say this, but I must. Ken Macintosh mentioned the concern about increased burdens on local authorities. In a policy document, the Government might say, \"Blah, blah, blah. We will pass the function of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 on to local authorities and we will pass the responsibility for community care on to local authorities.\" However, the budget figures show only a 1 per cent increase in cash terms for local authorities. In real terms, local authorities are wrestling with increased burdens and less money. Local authority leaders logging on to the website would find a whole range of Government policy announcements in that document and a whole financial statement in cash terms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 241914,
      "EditedText": "We are getting bogged down in this discussion and we must try to draw things together. We want to agree on the format of the budget documents. The document says:\"FIAG considered what information should be put before the Parliament to support Budget Bills. The Group recommended that they should cover all expenditure by the Executive which the Parliament has to approve, rather than merely that which involves expenditure from the Scottish Consolidated Fund. The Scottish Ministers undertake to prepare their budget proposal in accordance with this recommendation.\"We are talking about different things—budget procedure on the one hand and the supporting documents on the other. John Swinney is making the specific point that everything must be contained in one document, but I think that the most important question is whether the information is available and in what form. I note the point about meaningful real and cash-terms figures. Those figures can be made available, but the question is whether they should be in one document or in separate documents.My only doubt is about the interpretation of the minister's comment:\"I think therefore that this type of information should be made available separately.\"Had he said that the information would be available privately to the committee, I would have been concerned. However, the word \"separately\" suggests that it will be contained in an open and public document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 241915,
      "EditedText": "I am comfortable with Keith Raffan's explanation that, wherever information is being presented and however detailed it is, it should be presented in cash and real terms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 241924,
      "EditedText": "The Executive can do what it wants with the consultation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 241925,
      "EditedText": "The clear view is that we should reinforce that point to the minister—he may be willing to concede it. We are still discussing the letter. Do members have any points to raise on the in-year changes to expenditure allocations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 241929,
      "EditedText": "The letter seemed to cover everything in the documents. I am not proposing that we go through them paragraph by paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 241930,
      "EditedText": "Are we going to move on now? I have one remaining point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 241931,
      "EditedText": "Is your point related?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 241934,
      "EditedText": "I am referring to page 4 of the draft agreement on the budgeting process, which deals with the thorny issue of what happens with the Parliament's budget. Last time, our request under paragraph 14 was for the sentence to read:\"The Scottish ministers will include in Budget Bills Parliament's proposals for its own budget.\"We asked for that sentence to end there, given that the standing orders cover everything else. However, the Executive has inserted the words \"but the Executive may table a motion to discuss these if it thinks it necessary.\"The Executive has changed the terms of that sentence, but the meaning of it remains the same. Once again, I ask that that point be reinforced, as we agreed to it at our previous meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 241935,
      "EditedText": "So, you are suggesting that we take out the \"but\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ContributionID": 241937,
      "EditedText": "A full stop should be inserted after \"budget\", the \"but\" should be deleted, and the following sentence should begin: \"The Executive may table\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 575.0,
      "ContributionID": 241941,
      "EditedText": "What has changed to paragraph 14 on page 4?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 579.0,
      "ContributionID": 241943,
      "EditedText": "So you want to take out the second last sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 585.0,
      "ContributionID": 241946,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The final sentence stands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 595.0,
      "ContributionID": 241951,
      "EditedText": "If that phrase were not included, would the Executive be precluded from lodging a motion to discuss these matters if it thought it necessary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 601.0,
      "ContributionID": 241954,
      "EditedText": "Exactly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ContributionID": 241955,
      "EditedText": "That was very much our approach in the discussion that we had with Robert Brown, Paul Grice and Stewart Gilfillan. We wanted the corporate body to be clear what the Parliament's requirements were, and for those requirements to be reasonably debated without the Executive's involvement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 605.0,
      "ContributionID": 241956,
      "EditedText": "I have always been worried by this power. Frankly, it puts the Executive in a position vis-à-vis the Scottish Parliament that the UK Government is not in vis-à-vis Westminster. There could be a set-piece battle, but Parliament should not be subject to the Executive and its whips. Although I am part of the partnership, I think that Parliament should be supreme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 613.0,
      "ContributionID": 241960,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we replace\"if it thinks it necessary\"with something like \"only after all other avenues have been exhausted\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 615.0,
      "ContributionID": 241961,
      "EditedText": "That is a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 633.0,
      "ContributionID": 241970,
      "EditedText": "I move that we delete that phrase."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 641.0,
      "ContributionID": 241974,
      "EditedText": "Before you do, Mike—and I am sorry to be a constant pain—I want to raise an issue about the fourth bullet point on page 2 of the agreement on the format of the budget documents. I am delighted that the Executive has fulfilled, to an extent, the request that we made at a previous meeting for a statement about the public-private partnership and private finance initiative projects to list the costs of servicing those projects on an annual basis. The problem is that we did not want the word \"sector\" included, because that information already exists—we sought more detail on a project-by-project basis. Perhaps we could seek further clarification—unless I missed it in the letter. I see no reason why we could not have information on that basis, particularly from here on in, as the minister is already committed to providing such information where necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 643.0,
      "ContributionID": 241975,
      "EditedText": "Would a list of projects and their servicing costs achieve that? How feasible is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 647.0,
      "ContributionID": 241977,
      "EditedText": "It is a question of demand and resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 661.0,
      "ContributionID": 241984,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 663.0,
      "ContributionID": 241985,
      "EditedText": "So I cannot raise another point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 665.0,
      "ContributionID": 241986,
      "EditedText": "No, I am afraid not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 667.0,
      "ContributionID": 241987,
      "EditedText": "Why not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 673.0,
      "ContributionID": 241990,
      "EditedText": "Under standing orders, Keith, the agenda must be published in advance. An item on any other business would not meet the requirements of the standing orders. I am quite happy to conclude the meeting now so that, if you want to, you can raise those points informally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 241736,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what Mr Swinney has said. Other committees have had a member of the Executive present when considering statutory instruments. If the Executive provides a good explanatory note, we do not need to question the person who is attending the meeting. If we have a couple of weeks, we could consider the instrument in the first week and decide whether we need a further explanation in the second week. The explanatory note is not completely explanatory if we are still in the dark about what is going on. It would be helpful for someone to come and speak to us about it, to whom we could put specific questions. However, in the interests of not wasting someone's time, we should consider the instrument before deciding whether we need further information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:45.6242967+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 607.0,
      "ContributionID": 241957,
      "EditedText": "If the Executive believes that the Parliament's budget is excessive or wants to score political points by cutting the Parliament's budget to spend more money on health or whatever, should we ask the corporate body and the Executive to discuss the problem and come to an agreement without lodging a motion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:10.9697448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 629.0,
      "ContributionID": 241968,
      "EditedText": "But the Executive can lodge a motion anyway—we are saying that the motion should be a last resort rather than a warning shot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:10.9697448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 241777,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what John Swinney said. One way round the problem would be to turn it on its head and ask the committees to provide a reporter. We could ask them about their priorities and the thinking behind their figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:59.0948142+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 241813,
      "EditedText": "We could be telling a committee that it is wrong. If it has not carried out the consultation correctly, it would show up at that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:59.0948142+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 241919,
      "EditedText": "Both documents should be compatible; we should be able to read them in tandem. Someone from local government should be able to read the section in the budget document that gives the trends for policy and be able to follow that up in the other document. We are at cross-purposes. We are not talking about a document that gives the wrong impression. We are talking about a document that is easily read, which details trends and the policy behind it, and which gives the figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:59.0948142+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 241664,
      "EditedText": "Before I open up the meeting to discussion on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, I have to tell the committee that there is an error in paragraph 405 on page 56 of the explanatory notes for the bill. The pound signs are misprints and the figures refer to the number of cases, not the costs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 241668,
      "EditedText": "No. The only information that we have is contained within the explanatory notes and the financial memorandum. Although it is reasonable to give estimates, we have to decide whether those estimates are themselves reasonable, which, given our lack of specific knowledge of the issues, is not always easy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 241670,
      "EditedText": "I do not know, although I would be surprised if that had not happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 241672,
      "EditedText": "We can certainly follow up the matter. However, I cannot give an answer at the moment.Andrew, you are looking expectantly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 6341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 241673,
      "EditedText": "I am just waiting for you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 241682,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to consider the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill. The financial memorandum starts on page 36 of the explanatory notes.Do committee members have any comments on this bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 241683,
      "EditedText": "The financial memorandum for the previous bill was a useful piece of work, but the one for this bill is vaguer and less quantified; it gives little guidance on the conclusions on which we have to decide. Although I am very supportive of the bill, I am concerned about the area of compensation. If the legislation gives rise to any problems, we might find that the demand for and burden of compensation is much greater than we had expected. The contents and format of the bill need to be tight to protect the public purse. The committee has received no guidance on the possible scale of compensation demands, which makes it difficult to arrive at an informed judgment about the contents of the financial memorandum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 241684,
      "EditedText": "In fact, the financial memorandum contains no figures at all for projected costs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 241686,
      "EditedText": "John Swinney is correct that the financial memorandum has not drawn together total numbers, but the feeling that I get on reading paragraphs 237 and 238 is that the financial values involved are small. The final sentence of paragraph 238 talks about the ability to pay compensation by instalments when the total payment is more than £100. The financial values involved seem to be smallish—I suspect that that is why the Executive has been vaguer than it should have been in quantifying total numbers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 241687,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is right, but the question is whether we believe that some attempt should have been made to estimate the costs, as was done with the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill and the bill that we looked at before that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 241694,
      "EditedText": "That is right, but the question is what the costs will be to the Scottish Administration and to local authorities. Do we want an attempt to be made to estimate the costs, or are we happy to leave the matter as it is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 241695,
      "EditedText": "That takes us back to the discussions that we had when we considered our first financial memorandum, which was similarly unclear. We could return to the comments that we made then. However, when estimates are not provided, I would like to see a table at the start of the memorandum setting out the costs. Even in the memorandum that sets out the cost, no sum figure is given.It would be nice to see, for each line, what the estimated costs are. If there are no estimated costs, there should be an explanation of why that is the case, so that we are not left to assume, like Elaine Thomson and Rhoda Grant, that the figures are trivial. That is probably correct, but it would be nice to see it in black and white."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 241707,
      "EditedText": "This may be one of those occasions on which it is not realistic to provide figures, but the general point is worthy of consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 241710,
      "EditedText": "I have a question for Andrew Wilson. Are we asking for a tabular summary at the front of financial memorandums?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 241714,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 241718,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid not. I do not have a computer at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 241719,
      "EditedText": "Of course, it was removed from your home."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 241720,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it was stolen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 241723,
      "EditedText": "Given the three dates that are listed at the top of the first page of the statutory instrument, what is the implication of the Local Government Committee not considering this instrument?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 241732,
      "EditedText": "Or indeed the committee clerking staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 241733,
      "EditedText": "I was coming to them. It is unreasonable of the Executive to expect the staff who have specific responsibility for the committee—for ensuring that our business is properly transacted—to deal with that. It is the Executive that is bringing forward the instruments and it is only reasonable that it provides the background briefing timeously, so that it is not a burden on our clerks.The Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee wrestled with the Thurso College (Change of Name) (Scotland) Order 1999 and I wanted a member of the Executive to be there in case there was a specific question that I would have to pass over in order for the committee to approve the order. No matter how trivial the Scottish statutory instrument, it is only reasonable for the Executive to put the resources in front of the committee, to answer specific points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 241734,
      "EditedText": "Are you talking about a civil servant?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 6343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ID": 6343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 241735,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I am not talking about a minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 241744,
      "EditedText": "I do not know what other members think, but I am concerned about the strategic approach being decided on the basis of level 1 figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 241746,
      "EditedText": "What exercise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 241749,
      "EditedText": "We need to consider the committees' role in the process. If, as Keith Raffan said, the other committees already have detailed figures for the previous year, they can tell us whether they think that the level of funding in each specific area was adequate and where changes would be required. At that stage, we do not need the Executive's plans, although that would be helpful—we just need to say what the parliamentary committees' views are. Once we get the Executive's plans, we can see where they meet, if at all. That would be a helpful way for the committees to feed into the process. They could say what they would like and what is happening. The debate would then be about constraints and priorities. Early indications about what committees think would be helpful in their subject areas could be based on the previous year's figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 241758,
      "EditedText": "I expect to convene a meeting of conveners early next year to discuss the framework."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 241759,
      "EditedText": "On that basis, should we set a date by which our committee should produce proposals for you to discuss at that meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 241761,
      "EditedText": "I think that I am right in summarising the discussion so far as being Keith Raffan arguing for detailed figures to be provided as soon as possible and for the minister to be encouraged by letter to do that. John Swinney said that we should get the previous year's figures out to the committees as soon as possible. That can be done without too much difficulty.Keith made a point about templates. We have to think about how to ask the other committees about the sort of information that we want back. We might want to take external advice on that.We do not need to worry too much about dates, but we should ask committees to report to us soon on the current year's figures and on where they think that changes should be made. The Government's plans are set out. It would not be difficult for a committee to tell us what would happen to its policy area if there were a 3 per cent increase in the overall block.We should consider civic participation: what public role should the committee take in the process? We touched on that briefly at the previous meeting. The committee broadly agreed—I did not—that the Executive should lead the consultation process, but this committee might want to engage in some form of civic participation, given the importance of the budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 241762,
      "EditedText": "As Keith Raffan said, we must remember that we have to receive information back from the committees. If the information is in many different formats, it will be extremely difficult for us to distil it. We should ask them to reply in a specific form, although perhaps the use of a  template would be going too far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 241763,
      "EditedText": "Andrew's summary was very good. His suggestion that we find someone to advise us on the issue of the templates is useful. Our job will be made harder if we get information back in different forms, especially as we might not get the information back as early as we would like."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 241764,
      "EditedText": "Subject committees are required to complete their consideration of stage 1 by early June, and the debate must take place before the summer recess, which is the end of June. That means that there could be less than three weeks between our receiving the information and having the debate. We must make matters as simple as possible for this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 241766,
      "EditedText": "We could bring the date forward if the committees are to set dates in their programmes to discuss the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 241768,
      "EditedText": "That impacts on the question whether we want reporters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 241769,
      "EditedText": "Whether we have reporters or not, if every committee bombs us with information in a three-week period, we will not be able to cover the work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 241770,
      "EditedText": "That sounds sensible. My problem with it, however, is the same as my concern about the structure of committees generally: it follows budget lines rather than policy outcomes. That is a weakness in any committee system. The role of the Finance Committee is to look across the whole range of policy areas and to make a judgment on that basis. If I were involved in two areas and David Davidson were involved in two others, we might end up arguing over our patches."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 241771,
      "EditedText": "Our role could be to highlight points that the committee might want to deal with. I do not think that we as individuals should make recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 241774,
      "EditedText": "We want to have a feel for the discussions that the committees are having, however."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 241775,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate for members of this committee to feed in the opinions of other committees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 241778,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 241779,
      "EditedText": "That is a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 241780,
      "EditedText": "It is an excellent idea: I, too, am against compartmentalising this committee. It is important that we get the headline information fairly succinctly. The information from each committee should be comparable, so we should make a decision about the format in which we want the figures to be presented to us.On another point, page 2 of the briefing document says that\"members indicated that they did not think that subject committees should be required to operate within ‘zero sum' restrictions and it would therefore be open to them to propose areas where total departmental spending should be increased.\"That is not how I remember that discussion concluding. I thought that we decided that, although we did not expect committees to operate within zero sum restrictions in their budgets, they should be asked to identify other areas where savings might be made. We did not want a wish list.I am sorry that I do not have the Official Report with me, but I remember that we wanted committees to point out where they thought more money was needed and to suggest areas where they thought that money could be found."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 241781,
      "EditedText": "There might be a confusion here. There is a distinction to be made with regard to amendments to the written understandings. We must bear it in mind that if the budget is set to increase by 3 per cent, there can be bids for anything between 10 per cent and 1 per cent within that. Perhaps Kenneth's recollection is to do with the written understanding, which requires any proposal for a change to show where spending should be cut."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 241782,
      "EditedText": "You are right to say that committees cannot operate within zero sum restrictions, but I do not think that you are right about my recollection. I believe that we did not want committees to come up with wish lists. I cannot remember how we concluded it exactly, but I do not think that it was as it appears in the briefing document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 241783,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid that I do not have that Official Report to hand either. I recall that the committee felt that it did not want to encourage subject committees to come up with wish lists and that, in any framework that it gave to the committees, it would encourage them to think constructively about the organisation of their budgets.Having said that, I recall that the committee did not want to constrain committees by saying that every increase must be balanced by an equivalent decrease."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 241785,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the clerks are already preparing a basic framework for us to examine in our first meeting after the recess.Rhoda's point about having reporters from the subject committees is important and seems to have wide acceptance in the committee. We cannot force other committees to send reporters, but we can invite them to do it. It will be especially important if the committee wants to extend its budget beyond that which is proposed.Are we agreed that we should do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 241789,
      "EditedText": "The suggestions seem sensible, although we might want them to be more specific.I had initial reservations about having a former civil servant or Government adviser but, on reflection, it might be useful to have the insight of a creature of the civil service, as long as that was balanced by the view of an external cynic. I would like to see some specific examples of advisers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 241798,
      "EditedText": "The Minister for Finance said that to us, did he not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 241805,
      "EditedText": "There should be some balance between the points raised by Rhoda Grant and Andrew Wilson. Rhoda makes a fair point. If we are saying to the subject committees that they should look at their policy area and be satisfied that the £500 million is being spent in the optimum way, the obligation is on them to be comfortable with their area of policy and to have consulted adequately within it. I have a lot of sympathy with that. As a committee, however, we should consider the purpose of going outwith our traditional meeting structure to consult further, when—and I do not have a fixed opinion about this—it may be our job to encourage committees to come here with views about their budget allocations. Such views may be more in line with community opinion than, for example, the Executive's budget choices.We could encourage a debate about whether the Executive's priorities are in line with the committees' view of what the external community might demand. This committee could facilitate such a creative debate, but we should come to some conclusions on how we do that, other than having meetings at which we hear from the subject committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 241806,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Rhoda Grant and John Swinney. The consultation should be done through the committees. They can start to do that in the autumn for the following financial year. They could start going out with that year's figures and asking for general indications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 241807,
      "EditedText": "Would it be in the framework that we put to them that that would be part of the whole process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 241812,
      "EditedText": "The so-called alternative budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6344,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 241819,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6344,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 241820,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. That was a lengthy discussion but an important one. We will return to that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 241827,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid that I will be unable to attend next week's meeting,  regrettably, as I have an appointment with Scottish question time in the Palace of Westminster. The first bullet point on the expenditure proposals report is one that I feel very strongly about, and I questioned Brian Ashcroft and Stephen Boyle about it. The way in which information was presented in the budget statement, particularly the helpful way in which Brian Ashcroft presented the inflated figure for one particular year with his slide, was useful for clarifying exactly what the Government is saying in its programme.We need clear financial information about which there is no dubiety, and attempts to make something look larger than it really is—which is all that we are getting in the comparison between outturn and new expenditure figures—is something which we should state loudly and clearly that we do not find acceptable as a way to present information. I hope that we can make some strong remarks about that in our preparations for the debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 241832,
      "EditedText": "The final decisions on the allocation of committee rooms for next week have not been taken yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 241833,
      "EditedText": "So it is not the case that whenever a minister comes before a committee, the meeting will always be in the room where meetings can be televised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 241837,
      "EditedText": "One thing that arose from the discussion with Brian Ashcroft—and I met him in another place later and the discussion continued—was how we handle contingency spending. At the moment, the Government will go off, with permission, and spend up to a certain sum, which will come from all over the place and will be difficult to trail. Professor Ashcroft did not fully explore the point at the committee meeting, but later elsewhere he discussed in more detail how to approach setting up a contingency fund whereby we know in advance what is going on, what top-ups are required and so on. I do not know whether we should perhaps ask the minister about how he views what could be called the flagging procedures for contingency spending."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 241843,
      "EditedText": "Not yet, anyway. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 241848,
      "EditedText": "Are we aiming to finish at about 1.30 pm?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
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      "ID": 6345,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 241849,
      "EditedText": "That is quite a likely time, yes, Andrew. Is that acceptable? We can use the earlier part of our meeting to consider the draft report. Will you circulate it before the meeting, Sarah?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 330.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 241850,
      "EditedText": "I will do. My hope is that, to facilitate the first and second stages of drafting the report, the meeting with the minister will, apart from any specific points that anyone wants to raise with the minister that we had not covered with Professor Ashcroft and Stephen Boyle, follow the individual points that have already been highlighted. The minister's response to those points could then be worked into a draft fairly easily thereafter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6346,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 241859,
      "EditedText": "I beg your pardon, convener, but before we discuss the details of this, can I ask your guidance on what happens in areas of continued disagreement? There are a number of issues, some of which we will go through, on which the committee disagrees with the Executive, or disagreed previously. They have not been changed, and, having read the agreement, I do not agree with the statement that 98 per cent of them are unchanged now. What do we do about that? Where do find resolution?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 241860,
      "EditedText": "We can, despite the time limits, raise such issues next week, as the minister will be at the meeting. If we continue to have disagreement after that, the answer to that is that I am not sure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 241864,
      "EditedText": "He does. It depends how strongly we feel about points in the draft agreement. Let us go through the letter first, and then look at the agreement itself. We will see how strongly we feel about the issues and find out if there are points of substantial difference.Keith, you were talking about paragraph 3 of page 1 of the minister's letter to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 241871,
      "EditedText": "We will leave that, then.Page 2 of the letter covers contingent liabilities. I see that there are three exceptions to what we had suggested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9307804+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 241876,
      "EditedText": "The sentence starting \"I am quite content to agree\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 241882,
      "EditedText": "Well, it says \"in both cash terms and real terms\"in the letter, so we will get the real-terms figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 241897,
      "EditedText": "If we are going to make the documents public, we should make them available separately, as Rhoda suggested. I do not feel that it would be useful to produce a large document with very detailed figures. Instead, we should have a summary and then provide the additional details in a separate document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 241898,
      "EditedText": "John, you made the point that some members of the public are very knowledgeable on this subject; that is true. However, other people will want to read the documents and take what they can from them. I see no difficulty in bringing out two documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 241900,
      "EditedText": "I understand what is being said. However, we seem to be arguing about whether the figures should be in one book or two. The minister spells out his commitment in his letter. He says that the figures should be comparable\"in both cash terms and real terms\"and that they will be publicly available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 241904,
      "EditedText": "We are getting totally bogged down. If there are to be two documents—a summary and a more detailed document—both should be in cash and real terms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 241905,
      "EditedText": "\"Serving Scotland's Needs\" contains the detailed spending plans in real and cash terms, but it does not provide the year-on-year changes that were requested. John and Keith are making the point that a document that provides the information only in cash terms is misleading and another that provides the detail and the year-on-year changes is accurate. What is the point of having two documents doing two different things? If we are to produce a summary, that is fine, but we should provide real-terms information and some basic year-on-year changes. People can then get stuck into the more detailed document. However, both documents must give consistent information that people can understand. It is difficult to see why anyone would be against greater clarity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 241906,
      "EditedText": "The documents are not misleading."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 241907,
      "EditedText": "Yes they are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 241912,
      "EditedText": "They would be able to find all the information that you are talking about in the document that is before us, would they not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 241918,
      "EditedText": "It is important to get this straight, and we need the help of a special adviser to do it. I am not happy with some of the Executive's documentation; we have to pin it down. The social inclusion document referred to the record since 1997. The Scottish Executive has not been in power since 1997 and I am not interested in what the UK Government is doing. The documents must be factual—we do not want spinning, party political documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 241920,
      "EditedText": "For the third time this morning, Rhoda Grant has hit the nail on the head. We are arguing about the consultation document. In fact, we cannot determine what is in the consultation document—although we can and will criticise it. We are considering the budget documents and whether we want to ensure that the figures are in them. Am I right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 241922,
      "EditedText": "I shall help you to wind up, convener. Can we reassert that we would like to see in the budget documents year-on-year changes in cash and real terms?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 241923,
      "EditedText": "We can reinforce that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 241926,
      "EditedText": "Have Andrew Welsh and the Audit Committee given any indication of the points that they want to add?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 241928,
      "EditedText": "The Audit Committee is not going to look at the documents until the turn of the year. I do not get the impression that there is any haste to agree them, as budget documents in this format will not be produced until the next financial year. The committee can take its time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ContributionID": 241936,
      "EditedText": "Yes—from \"but\" to the end of the sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 571.0,
      "ContributionID": 241939,
      "EditedText": "The sentence should end with \"budget\". That reinforces the point that we agreed before. The Executive's added phrase presumably refers to the second last paragraph on page 2 of the letter. Interruption. I have been advised that the financial issues advisory group report recommended that the Executive should have the opportunity to lodge such a motion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 577.0,
      "ContributionID": 241942,
      "EditedText": "The question is what has not changed. We asked that the reference to the Executive being able to lodge a motion to debate the Parliament's budget be removed. That power is provided for in standing orders, so there is no need for it to be in the written agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 581.0,
      "ContributionID": 241944,
      "EditedText": "No. We will put a full stop after \"budget\" and delete the rest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 583.0,
      "ContributionID": 241945,
      "EditedText": "So we will delete \"but the Executive may table a motion to discuss these if it thinks it necessary\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 587.0,
      "ContributionID": 241947,
      "EditedText": "The drafting has improved since last time, when it seemed set to cause a disagreement; here it is much more benign. However, the position—which we agreed was unhelpful—stands. That is why we have instituted the process of getting a similar written agreement with the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 597.0,
      "ContributionID": 241952,
      "EditedText": "That is the point. We said at our previous meeting that we did not want the written agreements to have gratuitous references to the all-pervasive power of the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 609.0,
      "ContributionID": 241958,
      "EditedText": "We could influence matters at that stage. The point is that the power exists, so there is no reason for the Finance Committee to tell the Executive that it should go ahead. There is no reason to make the power more explicit than it has to be in the written agreements between the Parliament and the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 617.0,
      "ContributionID": 241962,
      "EditedText": "Presumably that would refer to discussions between the corporate body and the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 625.0,
      "ContributionID": 241966,
      "EditedText": "You have already conceded that the Executive could do that anyway, Andrew. It is better that we include it in those terms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 627.0,
      "ContributionID": 241967,
      "EditedText": "There is also a threat to the Parliament, however—the Executive is saying, \"We will lodge a motion unless you give in.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 639.0,
      "ContributionID": 241973,
      "EditedText": "I do not propose to go through the draft agreements, as I think that we have covered the points in the letter. Unless members feel particularly strongly about specific points, I propose to draw discussion on this item to a conclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 651.0,
      "ContributionID": 241979,
      "EditedText": "That is a helpful idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 655.0,
      "ContributionID": 241981,
      "EditedText": "We also need an expenditure plan that lists individual projects and servicing costs, grouped by sector. If the Executive were not specifically required to list individual projects, it could lump together all the health projects, for example, which is not what we are after."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.9464014+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Annual Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 6344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 241811,
      "EditedText": "We are saying that in stage 1, the committees should go out and consult, while stage 2 involves the figures from the Executive and the committees—and we know where there will be conflict. At that stage, we could go and consult, because we are the ones who may be trying to bring the two together and consider the merit of the committees' arguments as opposed to those of the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:59.0948142+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 241887,
      "EditedText": "I disagree. It would be acceptable to have two public documents. One would be a summary of the budget proposals for people who wanted to see only the general trends; they could pick it up without having to go into detail. The document containing the breakdown that we would be looking for would include information from the shorter document; it would be left for anoraks to pore over that rather than—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:59.0948142+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 6342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 241692,
      "EditedText": "The cost of the search could be more than the money that would be redeemed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:45.6242967+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1402
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 6346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 6346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 623.0,
      "ContributionID": 241965,
      "EditedText": "Yes, as it puts pressure on the Executive to discuss ways of addressing the problem other than by lodging a motion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:10.9697448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C233077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 233077,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the role of the clerks. I am a rapporteur on another committee and I have a clerk with me to take notes at every meeting that I go to in that capacity. Is that what is envisaged here, or would the contact be more informal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 233080,
      "EditedText": "The questions of time, human resources and financial resources would be considered issue by issue. We intended to facilitate cases in which clerks would be needed to take notes of the meeting to be read in as formal evidence at a future meeting. It would be up to committee members to decide whether we were required to be there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 233082,
      "EditedText": "I have spoken to Stephen Imrie about the IGC and we will report to the committee on that issue next year.As for travel, we cannot give the Parliament or others the idea that we are constructing a timetable of work that will require travel all over Europe. The advice that we are giving is that such travel will be the exception. We need to take a considered view on that.Money is available up to the end of the financial year for advice and support from specialists. We might tap into that by grouping different areas of work. Other committees have started to appoint special advisers. We may have access to a budget for specific pieces of work.The other thing that strikes me, which follows on from what Margo MacDonald said, is that some subjects could be grouped together and we could have co-rapporteurs. For example, Ben Wallace and Irene Oldfather could work together on enlargement, which Margo suggested might link with the areas that Irene is examining.I want to get agreement on issues that could be combined, and to find out whether anyone is interested in the headings that we agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C233083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 233083,
      "EditedText": "The issues are relevant and reasonable. One omission, which is not particularly urgent but could be added at some point, is European health initiatives by the Committee of the Regions. Because of the importance of health issues to regional Governments throughout Europe, we might want to put down a marker for a future report.On the timetable, I agree with what Bruce Crawford said. We must dovetail a bit more with the European agenda, especially on enlargement. That might mean bringing the report on enlargement forward a bit.I agree 100 per cent about combining issues. I had identified the enlargement of the EU as one of my areas of interest. Promoting links through European networks links with that issue, so I would be happy to work on those subjects if they were combined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C233084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 233084,
      "EditedText": "Can I sound a cautionary note? What struck me about the detailed paper was the volume of the prospective work load. With Margo MacDonald and others, I have been involved in the six-month inquiry by the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee into the two important issues of local economic development services and workplace training. The sheer volume of representations that we have received has been overwhelming. The list of organisations that may submit oral evidence to this committee includes an even greater range of organisations, although there is a significant degree of overlap.The work programme is fairly ambitious, as is the 12-point suggested programme of issues to be considered. I have no criticisms of the allocation of duties and responsibilities within the overall remit, but I think that those issues require to be prioritised, along the lines that Bruce Crawford suggested. The time scale seems equally ambitious. We should discriminate between areas of Parliament in which we have a direct legislative responsibility—we should consider them in greater detail—and those in which we might have an interest but not a legislative role to perform. A couple of areas spring to mind immediately.We should prioritise within groupings, as has been suggested. It is important that people work together to reach conclusions that will make a genuine difference to the people of Scotland. If we adopt a scatter-gun approach and try to cover too many issues, our energies and efforts might be too diffuse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 233087,
      "EditedText": "You can finish your point first, Sylvia."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 233088,
      "EditedText": "I just thought that there might be an advantage in our all starting at the same time. That way, we could all report together. We could share information and see where the overlaps are. As a scientist, I am happy with the area that has been allocated to me. However, sustainability is at its core and it will obviously overlap with a number of areas, particularly Tavish Scott's."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 233091,
      "EditedText": "That is true."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 233092,
      "EditedText": "Whether or not you take on enlargement as an issue, Ben, the debate on the single currency will have to be faced up to. We are discussing the preparations for a debate on the single currency. Enlargement will either happen or not, and will certainly have implications for the single currency, but they are separate issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 233094,
      "EditedText": "My point is that the new markets, which I hope enlargement will bring, will be tied inextricably to the euro. Those new markets will not be part of the euro zone at first and it is important that we establish links with them and identify what will inhibit or help us and them. I believe that the issue of the euro is linked to enlargement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 233099,
      "EditedText": "Did we agree that the justice issue would be punted up the timetable a bit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C233101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 233101,
      "EditedText": "Logically, agriculture would fit in with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 233102,
      "EditedText": "I should add that the paper that you just gave me, convener, refers to sustainable development and integration of environment policy with other policies, so there is quite a big link."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 233105,
      "EditedText": "Tavish, are you saying that there are links with the agricultural sector?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C233111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 233111,
      "EditedText": "I think so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C233112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 233112,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is very precise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 233113,
      "EditedText": "That is fine.It is proposed that Bruce Crawford deal with the single currency. Are there any links that can be made there? I know that Ben Wallace has made a suggestion, but I do not think that it is a useful way of taking the matter forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 233115,
      "EditedText": "However, we are agreed that the single currency is an issue that we need to address. Bruce is happy to take that forward.Allan Wilson has suggested that the work for which he has been pencilled in should be brought together with that to which Cathy has been assigned. Is there anything else that would reasonably fit with that? Are we agreed that those are issues worth considering?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 233127,
      "EditedText": "The implications of enlargement are a specific issue, but that also links with how we use European institutions and networks and the opportunities that will come with enlargement.We have spoken about human rights and European law. Winnie Ewing is our reporter on the provision of information on European issues in Scotland.We will refine that programme, if we agree that the list of topics is useful. Members have indicated their interest in and willingness to work in those areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 233128,
      "EditedText": "Can members of the committee have a role in other topics?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 233130,
      "EditedText": "We should understand what is being said—the enlargement issue and European law and its implications for Scottish justice will be reconsidered, which will affect the timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 233136,
      "EditedText": "The point that I have raised does not involve any member in time-consuming work. I was talking about the usefulness of a discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 233137,
      "EditedText": "Are you not talking about the forward work programme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 233139,
      "EditedText": "We will consider that as a separate issue. Do members agree that we can release the forward work programme?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 233143,
      "EditedText": "We are probably all trying to give some structure to the actions that we might have to take as part of our particular responsibilities, and for Sylvia's information—and for everyone else's—Allan and I have spoken to heaven knows how many folk who know about training. There are now written records of evidence that has been given to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. Before you line up anyone else, let us see—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C233145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 233145,
      "EditedText": "It comes back to what I was saying about the fairly exhaustive list of organisations. If we were to listen to oral evidence from them all, there would be a sizeable dent in our work programme well into the new year. To lighten the load, so to speak, we could usefully take written evidence from some and oral evidence from others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C233150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 233150,
      "EditedText": "I, too, think that the report is excellent. It would be a good idea for the Scottish fisheries sector to give a lead. I like that thought, because fishing is so important to Scotland. Efforts must be made to keep the water off our west coast a pristine environment. We know what has happened to scallops, although I do not see that mentioned in Tavish Scott's report. The report covers most other matters very well.The only other issue that I would like to raise is that of cod numbers. Nobody seems to know why the cod stocks have fallen to the current levels; according to the fishermen, they have just disappeared. Scientific research should be carried out to discover what has happened to the valuable cod stocks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C233152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 233152,
      "EditedText": "I endorse that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 233155,
      "EditedText": "We cannot determine the work load of another committee. However, if we agree on this, we can send copies of the report to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and to the Rural Affairs Committee, drawing their attention to paragraph 7. It is for those committees to decide how they wish to take this issue forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C233158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 233158,
      "EditedText": "This is a value-added issue, which the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee would be happy to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 233162,
      "EditedText": "We endorse the report and agree to send it to John Home Robertson. We will ask him to report back to the committee early in the new year. Thanks to Tavish for an excellent piece of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 233171,
      "EditedText": "That depends. We could do that if the proposals come before the next Fisheries Council in December, but it might not be worth while if the proposal has already been passed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 233176,
      "EditedText": "Which is the relevant committee, the Rural Affairs Committee or us? If there is a legitimate interest in this, the Rural Affairs Committee is probably better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 233178,
      "EditedText": "Where should forestry policy be considered? The suggestion is the Rural Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 233187,
      "EditedText": "SP 350 (EC Ref No 10742/99 COM(99) 348 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 233190,
      "EditedText": "The decision has already been taken. The document is about an anti-dumping measure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 233195,
      "EditedText": "SP 487 (EC Ref No 12261/99 COM(99) 493 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 233196,
      "EditedText": "SP 491 (EC Ref No 12380/99 CRIMORG 153)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C233200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 233200,
      "EditedText": "On document SP 493, I notice that our information from the legal adviser was that, although health and safety at work is a reserved matter, we might want to ask the Scottish Executive about whether the directive has relevant implications. The document refers to\"improving the safety and health protection of workers potentially at risk from explosive atmospheres\".We might want to get more information on that. It was a helpful note."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 233206,
      "EditedText": "I shall ask the clerks to provide further information on that document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233207",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 233207,
      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following documents:"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 233209,
      "EditedText": "SP 501 (EC Ref No 12303/99 COM(99) 518 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233210",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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      "ID": 129
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 233210,
      "EditedText": "SP 502 (EC Ref No 12348/99 COM(99) 550 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233211",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ContributionID": 233211,
      "EditedText": "SP 504 (EC Ref No 12657/99 COM(99) 549 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233213",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 233213,
      "EditedText": "SP 509 (EC Ref No 12751/99 UD 118 CODEC 665)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233216",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ContributionID": 233216,
      "EditedText": "SP 515 (EC Ref No 12094/99 COM(99) 535 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 233217,
      "EditedText": "For document SP 516 (EC Ref No 12553/99 STUP 22), the recommendation is that no further action be taken. Is that agreed?"
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    "ID": "C233221",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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      "Name": "European Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 233221,
      "EditedText": "SP 517 (EC Ref No 12805/99 COM(99) 548 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
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    "ID": "C233223",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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      "ContributionID": 233223,
      "EditedText": "SP 519 (EC Ref No 12958/99 COM(99) 558 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 233229,
      "EditedText": "SP 526 (EC Ref No 12060/99 COM(99) 501 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C233234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 233234,
      "EditedText": "SP 531 (EC Ref No 12189/99 COM(99) 522 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C233235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 233235,
      "EditedText": "SP 532 (EC Ref No 12190/99 COM(99) 523 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C233237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 233237,
      "EditedText": "SP 534 (EC Ref No 12192/99 COM(99) 525 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 233239,
      "EditedText": "SP 536 (EC Ref No 12194/99 COM(99) 527 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 233240,
      "EditedText": "SP 537 (EC Ref No 12195/99 COM(99) 528 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 233244,
      "EditedText": "SP 541 (EC Ref No 12199/99 COM(99) 532 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 233249,
      "EditedText": "SP 522 (EC Ref No 12368/99 PESC 378 COAFR 28)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 233253,
      "EditedText": "SP 520 (EC Ref No 10098/99 EUROPOL 36)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 233254,
      "EditedText": "At the end of the meeting, we will return to a discussion of those documents. We will also ask Stephen Imrie to report back on the view of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee on document SP 317 (EC Ref No 10541/99, COM(99) 352 final 99/0152 (COD))."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C233255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
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      "ID": 6012,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 233255,
      "EditedText": "I would like to point out an error in the notes by the legal adviser on document SP 473 on the European year of languages. It says quite clearly on the front that there would be 50 per cent co-financing. However, on page 18, there is a list of a number of measures that will be financed 100 per cent from the Community budget. That error put one or two members off looking at that document in more detail, but the annexe on page 18 shows the true picture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 233257,
      "EditedText": "I advise the committee that we sent to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee document SP 317 on a proposal for a directive of the European Parliament and of the Council, amending Council Directive 91/308/EEC covering the financial system for the purpose of money laundering. That committee has considered and noted the document, but does not have any further comments to bring to the attention of the European Committee."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6012,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 233258,
      "EditedText": "Is it agreed that we should recommend no further action for that document?Members indicated agreement."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 233260,
      "EditedText": "I advise the member that we have received document SP 482 only recently. As he correctly indicated, the matter has already been considered in the November Fisheries Council. If the committee is agreeable, I shall investigate why we received that document at such a late stage that we were unable to discuss it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 233262,
      "EditedText": "The next item is a report on the meeting with President Mary McAleese of the Republic of Ireland. Margo MacDonald and Dennis Canavan also attended that meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 233263,
      "EditedText": "President Mary McAleese spoke to a number of people assembled in the Signet Library. Politics, the Church and business—the usual suspects—were all represented. I was very impressed by the President's speech, because it teetered nicely between a political analysis and a good-will visit. The President treated our Parliament and the Scots in general as being the same as the Irish, in that we have every right to think of ourselves as contributing to Europe, rather than being mere beneficiaries. She referred to the historical links between Ireland and Scotland as Celtic fringe nations, but did not dwell on the maudlin. She moved ahead quickly and delicately to stress the fact that we are partners and competitors in developing the European economy, in investing in the European zone and in our approach to coping with the ups and downs of the global economy. As members will gather, it was a decent speech that the woman made. Everyone who was there was charmed and impressed by her. If I may express a personal observation, I hope that, when the convener of this committee or of any other goes on a reciprocal visit to Dublin, they will appear just as confident about European matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 233267,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a point about the objective 3 plan. Some of us went to the briefing that was held on it last week, at which it was made clear that the plan has not yet been finished. We have been promised that we will get it by tomorrow. It is a 400-page document, and some things have changed. We were briefed by the Executive's officials, who said that a number of changes had been made to the original plan and that they would have been unhappy for us to comment before we saw the finished version. They agreed that we would not have enough time to digest the report and question the minister on it if we did not get it by Friday. Stephen Imrie was also at the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 233270,
      "EditedText": "As Mr Wallace said, we agreed informally with the Executive officials that they would try to give us the document by today or tomorrow. Those would the earliest dates by which they could provide us with the final plan. We indicated to them that if we did not receive it by then, it would be difficult for members to give the plan proper consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 233272,
      "EditedText": "Our difficulty is that the Scottish Executive is working to a tight time scale for getting the plan to the Commission. We could say that we are not prepared to meet the minister because we do not have the document. The problem is that the Executive would go ahead and submit the plan anyway. Next week will be our only opportunity to discuss it, although this is clearly not a satisfactory situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 233276,
      "EditedText": "We will agree to circulate the report. If members have any further comments, they should inform Stephen Imrie, who will try to incorporate what he can into what will still be a draft report ahead of the meeting with Jack McConnell next week. We will make our concern known separately to the Executive about the late availability of the final plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 233277,
      "EditedText": "I am scheduled to attend a meeting of the Local Government Committee on the afternoon of 14 December. Will the meeting with Jack McConnell be in the afternoon?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 233281,
      "EditedText": "It was done to accommodate the objective 3 plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 233282,
      "EditedText": "I might not be able to attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 233284,
      "EditedText": "It makes sense up to a point. At the moment, what you have described is all that we can do. The report is based on the information that was provided to us when the officials appeared before the committee, updated by a briefing that a representative of each political group received from some of the officials involved. That is the most that we can do before our meeting with Jack McConnell. It would help to focus attention on what we consider to be the general issues. It is not our final comment. We will make that next week. We hope to have received the document by then, although that will not give us much time to examine it.The briefing was based on the most up-to-date information that was available. We must agree whether it goes to the Scottish Executive ahead of the meeting. It would be useful to feed back some of the comments that came out of the informal briefing, although it does not represent the final view of the committee. We will write to the Scottish Executive separately expressing our concern at the lack of provision of the document. Whether we like it or not, we will have to go ahead with that meeting next week. Otherwise, we will not have an opportunity to comment before that document is sent to Brussels."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C233287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 233287,
      "EditedText": "It might be worth while highlighting the aspects of the report that have been subject to substantial change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 233290,
      "EditedText": "We have not fixed a date yet. I will come back to the committee with a suggested venue and date.The last point goes back to the scrutiny process. We will continue in private so that we are off the record as far as the official report is concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 233291,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 15:33."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 233068,
      "EditedText": "First for discussion is the forward work programme. We have attempted to sketch out some of the main areas that we will be required to examine over the coming year to 18 months, with the aim of trying independently to develop a European agenda, while at the same time looking at some of the scrutiny work that we will have to consider. We would like to set the agenda and push the debate forward on behalf of the people of Scotland.The draft work programme suggests that we group work into blocks, and identify a lead person to take the work forward. However, one of the things that I spoke to the committee clerk about and on which I wanted to encourage debate was whether the person who is given a lead responsibility should be the only one to work on the subject. Indeed, it may be that members of other committees would contribute. We agreed that more than one person should be involved and that groups of people with lead responsibility would conduct hearings with different organisations in different parts of the country, on behalf of the committee. We do not need to do everything together, but we should engage as many people throughout Scotland as possible.The paper suggests topics, groups and individuals for consideration. If we cannot agree, I do not want to start changing things name by name. If there are suggestions for changes, we will bring the paper to the next meeting. However, the paper is a starting point for today's discussion. We need to find out whether the topics, issues and time scales are right. Are members interested in the suggestions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 233071,
      "EditedText": "It was always our intention to assist the members with their tasks as rapporteurs. We will have to consider the clerking resources, but we intend to work alongside the member in the production of the reports and in all the other tasks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C233073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 233073,
      "EditedText": "I note what you have just said and what you said earlier about working together. That is the way in which Ben Wallace and I would like to proceed. Ben is keen to work with Bruce Crawford on his policy area. There are different views on that area and, without overly politicising an issue, this committee should reflect a balance of opinion.I would like us to discuss ways to help Scottish business exploit the opportunities that Europe offers. I do not want to get bogged down in swapping around the roles that have been allocated at this meeting, but that topic is of great interest and I want to pursue it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 233076,
      "EditedText": "I want to reassure members that I will help with all those sorts of matters. Access to civil servants will be arranged by the clerks using our departmental liaison officers in the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 233081,
      "EditedText": "Although it needs a couple of changes, this report is great and is close to what we need to continue our work. I hope that we can agree so that we can begin to work out how we can undertake some of the activities. The chart says that some of our work starts as early as January.On the issue of balance, every committee member accepts that we are acting as reporters for a group of people and are not putting forward either our individual or party views, which makes the clerking support even more important. I am not saying that the clerks will act as judge and jury, but they will have a useful role in ensuring that a reporter's strong opinions do not become overbearing. However, I am worried about resources. As there are going to be some timetabling difficulties with all this work, perhaps there should be a paper on how the work will be financed. Otherwise, we might find the time scale slipping.Furthermore, it might be necessary for members such as Ben Wallace, as rapporteur on the issue of enlargement, to travel to parts of Europe to find out the views of other countries. I do not wish to make a rod for my own back, but it will be difficult to get involved in discussions about the policy implications of the euro unless we talk to the European Central Bank. There will be cases, admittedly limited, where the committee will have to go forth from Scotland. We will need to make a strong case for that to the SPCB. This committee, more than any other in the Parliament, will need to look beyond Scotland.As for the time scales of the draft timetable, I have concerns about two areas. We do not envisage doing much about the area of enlargement until January 2001; however, the intergovernmental conference is expected to publish its views on enlargement by December 2000 and we might be shutting the door after the horse has bolted. Similarly, as the Portuguese presidency of the EU ends in June 2000, we will need to start work earlier on the implications of European law for Scottish justice, which is David Mundell's area. We need to tighten the timetable in those areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C233085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 233085,
      "EditedText": "I will pick up on some points that have been made. This is an ambitious programme that covers a lot of areas. If we take on these roles, it is important that we are focused about what we are trying to achieve and that we do not try to replicate the work of any of the European institutions or of the whole of the Scottish Parliament.We should take a focused approach to reviewing some of the information that is around. We should not reinvent the wheel, but suggest ways forward for future work in the Parliament, either, as Allan Wilson suggested, on a legislative basis, or in a wider policy development role.I am quite happy to take on the area of interest that has been allotted to me. The opportunities to link in with the work of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and the Rural Affairs Committee could lead to a new and exciting way for this committee to bring other people into its work.I agree with the points that have been made about the timetable, but we must be clear about our aims. If we agree the work programme, the fact that a report is not due until later should not prevent people from starting to gather information immediately. The clerks can assist us in that work. I am concerned that the work allocated to me is scheduled for the summer months. That is fine for me, because I would have fewer parliamentary commitments then, but I would like to be sure that enough staff back-up is available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 233089,
      "EditedText": "The practical answer is that the clerks would not be able to cope with everybody starting at the same time. Although we could manage it, it would cause insurmountable difficulties for them.We can tap into a number of resources. For example, the information centre can commission internal and external research papers. We need to be clear about the fact that we are not conducting major hearings or investigations, as happened when the Health and Community Care Committee considered the Arbuthnott report. Other committees are required to react to the work of the Executive, but our work involves bringing forward our thoughts and comments to promote awareness and discussion.Having done reports at European level, I know that much of that work can be done with one's own resources, by telephoning, faxing or e-mailing people before producing final reports. Some people think that we need to cover the whole country, but Allan Wilson was right to say that we must keep a sense of perspective. We must ensure that we can manage our work load, but some of the areas will give us the opportunity to combine the commitments that we made to external organisations.David Mundell mentioned business and industry. If we were considering a report that was significant for business and industry, it would not be sensible to do so without consulting some of the organisations that we have identified. That would be their opportunity to feed back into the European Committee, without having to come to a full committee meeting.On Cathy Jamieson's points, it would be sensible to talk to the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, the Wise Group and others about their work; that would also represent an opportunity for such groups to influence the committee's work.We need to be careful about what we think we can do. We also need to tighten up our work programme, which we will reconsider and confirm at our next meeting. However, taking on board some of the comments and suggestions that have been made on the implications of European law for Scottish justice and human rights, perhaps David Mundell and Dennis Canavan could work together. They may need to speak to members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. It is possible to produce a joint report, which could go to two committees, and members of that committee might want to comment. That seems to be a sensible link.On enlargement and links to European networks, I do not know whether there is a clear business link, but I ask the clerks to consider that as we could work on those topics together. Are there any other obvious areas where there could be co-operation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 233090,
      "EditedText": "Work on enlargement would tie in with the policy implications of the single currency. There will be an enlargement of the European Union concept, with some countries in the euro zone and some not. The differences that we might have to cope with are important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C233093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 233093,
      "EditedText": "When I put enlargement on the list of priorities, I had in mind the challenges and opportunities facing Scotland, in terms of both the links between public sector bodies and the opportunities available to business as a result of enlargement, with an additional 100 million consumers. Enlargement is a big topic on its own and I do not think that it should be tied in with a report on the single currency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C233097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 233097,
      "EditedText": "Competition will certainly increase for British business, in the light of enlargement, whether that involves intra-trading or inter-trading blocs. A key aspect of our ability to compete in those expanding markets will be our take-up of the education and training initiatives. That topic seems to dovetail entirely reasonably with that of community economic development and the role of the EU. Cathy Jamieson and I could work together on both those policy headings and produce a combined report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 233098,
      "EditedText": "I will run through some of the headings and the expressions of interest to see whether we can agree. We will return to this item at our next meeting for final approval.I want to reach the stage where we agree the issues and the members who will tackle them. I will bring a report to the next meeting that will incorporate, for example, Allan Wilson's suggestion and some of the points that were raised by Ben Wallace and Dennis Canavan, to see whether we can refine the work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 233100,
      "EditedText": "I will come back to the timetable, as I would like to have a further discussion with the clerk about when and how work will be done and about how support will be provided. We should have time to do that either by the next meeting or by the first meeting in January. Are we agreed that we should consider the policy implications of the European Commission's sixth environmental action plan, and that Sylvia should take the lead on that? Is there anything else that would fit in with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 233103,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether Dr Jackson would help the official report by specifying which paper she is referring to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 233104,
      "EditedText": "I am referring to Adrian Colwell's paper. It is a Convention of Scottish Local Authorities briefing note on the European Commission's sixth environmental action plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C233106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 233106,
      "EditedText": "Yes—in terms of the wider sustainability agenda. The Agenda 2000 programme is coming down the track and we still do not know what it contains; we will probably not know until 2000. However, there will be a lot of—to use the agriculture jargon—cross-compliance between the environment and agriculture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 233107,
      "EditedText": "Could we reasonably put the two together?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 233110,
      "EditedText": "It is a paper that COSLA produced. I suggested at the start of the meeting that if we agreed on what the committee wanted to consider, the paper would be a useful starting point for our work on the issue.Is the issue that Maureen Macmillan was to deal with totally separate from those that are being handled by Tavish Scott and Sylvia Jackson?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 233114,
      "EditedText": "The euro zone will be established across the vast majority of European Union countries—and probably here—before accession takes place. From Ben Wallace's perspective, the main issue will be the implications of the euro for the countries that join the European Union. I am not sure at this stage that there are links between the two issues that we will deal with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C233116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 233116,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to see how education and training initiatives could be considered apart from economic development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 233117,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. Is there anything that could readily be combined with tourism, culture and sport?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 233118,
      "EditedText": "Holidays. As long as we get to San Remo—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 233121,
      "EditedText": "We will have a look at that. I will talk to Stephen Imrie about Bruce Crawford's suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 233122,
      "EditedText": "I will make a point about sustainability. Now that we are broadening the scope of that, there will be an overlap with Allan Wilson in terms of economic development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C233126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 233126,
      "EditedText": "The committee's role is to promote links with European networks, so all of the groups will be involved in that.Community initiatives on business link-ups have connections with enlargement. I would be happy to work with Ben Wallace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 233131,
      "EditedText": "We are not agreeing to a timetable. We are seeking agreement about the issues and about which members want to examine particular issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 233140,
      "EditedText": "I ask members to send their expressions of interest to Stephen as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 233144,
      "EditedText": "We will cross-reference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 233149,
      "EditedText": "I endorse all the points in that excellent report. I have been privy to the spectacle of the fishing bodies of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland sitting in a hotel room hoping for crumbs of information, as their fate was settled in a room where the Fisheries Council was meeting. To be fair, the council did give them crumbs of information as progress was made, but their helplessness was pathetic. I endorse the idea that the fishermen should be involved.The roll-over makes a great deal of sense. The pathos of what I have described arose from the fishing bodies' fate being decided almost like a lottery every December, so no plans could be made as to the size of boats that were needed or whether boats should be replaced. That was a nonsense, and the roll-over should improve the situation.Nobody likes the idea of discards, or throwing fish back into the sea. The public do not like it—it is a very unpopular concept. However, it happens because we make rules about the size of fish that we can market. Various television companies have made films showing that small fish are regularly sold in all the stores in Madrid. That is against the law, but nothing is done about it.The Scottish Fishermen's Federation made a wonderful underwater film proving what Tavish has said about the square mesh panel: that the squares do not close and the small fish get through. The diamond mesh closes, preventing the small fish from escaping. That expensive video from the SFF was shown in my presence to the Fisheries Council, and the European Commission ignored it. It did not seem to be interested in finding a sensible way of dealing with discards. If we let the small fish escape, they will grow into bigger fish—that is in everybody's interests.The last act of my dear colleague Allan Maccartney was to be rapporteur on regional management. He died when he had almost finished producing his report, which was then taken on by an Irish member called Pat the Cope Gallagher, and unanimously passed by the Committee on Fisheries. That is unusual, because all the different countries and interests are represented on that committee. It would be wonderful if fishermen could be more involved in the process, as it affects their livelihood."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 233151,
      "EditedText": "This paper was useful not only in providing background information, but in its recommendations. It is interesting that, although 62 per cent of the value of UK sea fish landings in 1998 were made at Scottish ports and 92 per cent of aquaculture products for sale emanated from Scotland, Scotland has only 40 per cent of sea-fish-processing employment in the UK. That might not be within the remit of this committee, but it is an area of weakness. Would Tavish Scott like to comment on that? Does he think that it would be useful if we were to ask the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and the Rural Affairs Committee to consider how we can maximise the benefits of landings in Scotland for downstream industry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 233159,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on Tavish Scott's report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C233161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 233161,
      "EditedText": "I have not covered that issue or the issue of scallops because the report is about the forthcoming Fisheries Council and I am not aware that either of those items are on the agenda for that meeting. I suggest respectfully that those issues should be dealt with by the Rural Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 233164,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 233169,
      "EditedText": "I will look into that while the committee continues with the scrutiny process and comment later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 233173,
      "EditedText": "It says that the explanatory memorandum for document SP 505 has not yet been received. Are we waiting for documentation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 233174,
      "EditedText": "We have not received the memorandum, but the recommendation is that we send the documentation that we have to the Rural Affairs Committee and that this committee will take no further action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 233175,
      "EditedText": "I would like to read the memorandum. Forests are terribly important in Scotland. We are one of the only areas in Europe with undeveloped land that could be suitable for forestry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 233177,
      "EditedText": "There is not really a forestry policy in Europe, although it is continually discussed. Those discussions have failed because the interests of the states are all so different. We would want to know about this before it is finalised because we have a big forestry interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 233179,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but I would still like to read the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 233180,
      "EditedText": "The clerk will arrange that and we will send the document to the Rural Affairs Committee for its attention. That is agreed.For document SP 497 (EC Ref No 12442/99 COM(99) 519 final), the recommendation is for no further action but to send a copy to the Transport and the Environment Committee for its interest. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 233181,
      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following document:"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 233182,
      "EditedText": "SP 453 (EC Ref No 10844/1/99 REV.1)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C233183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 233183,
      "EditedText": "Document SP 473 (EC Ref No 12090/99  COM(99) 485 COD 99/0208) sets out a timetable and criteria for promoting the European year of languages. It would be useful to look at the document or to refer it to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee to see how we in Scotland can obtain maximum benefit from that year. There will be significant funds for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 233188,
      "EditedText": "SP 447 (EC Ref No 10525/99 COM(99) 429 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 233192,
      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following documents:"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 233193,
      "EditedText": "SP 483 (EC Ref No 11997/99 COM(99) 495)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 233194,
      "EditedText": "SP 486 (EC Ref No 12256/99 COM(99) 497 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 233198,
      "EditedText": "I presume that there is no further action on SP 491, but I am interested in\"practical measures towards combating criminal action\",if we are talking about the fact that plans for the enlargement of the EU are being undermined by Mafia gangs that are moving west."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 233199,
      "EditedText": "If there is any background information, it should be given to Margo."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C233201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 233201,
      "EditedText": "That might apply to ourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 233205,
      "EditedText": "Yes please."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 233214,
      "EditedText": "SP 510 (EC Ref No 0212/98)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 233215,
      "EditedText": "SP 512 (EC Ref No 12501/99 COM(99) 556 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 233218,
      "EditedText": "Should we not send document SP 516 to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, as it concerns drugs? It may have implications, particularly in terms of the European convention on human rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 233219,
      "EditedText": "We shall send it to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee for interest. That is agreed."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C233222",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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      "ContributionID": 233222,
      "EditedText": "SP 518 (EC Ref No 12947/99 COM(99) 561 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
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    "ID": "C233227",
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      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following documents:"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "EditedText": "SP 523 (EC Ref No 12422/99 PESC 382 COWEB 139)"
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    "ID": "C233230",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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      "EditedText": "SP 527 (EC Ref No 12061/99 COM(99) 502 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
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    "ID": "C233231",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 233231,
      "EditedText": "SP 528 (EC Ref No 12063/99 COM(99) 504 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C233238",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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      "EditedText": "SP 535 (EC Ref No 12193/99 COM(99) 526 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C233241",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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      "ID": 129
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 233241,
      "EditedText": "SP 538 (EC Ref No 12196/99 COM(99) 529 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 233242,
      "EditedText": "SP 539 (EC Ref No 12197/99 COM(99) 530 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 233248,
      "EditedText": "SP 521 (EC Ref No 12358 PESC 377 COAFR 27)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 233250,
      "EditedText": "SP 492 (EC Ref No 94231/99 REV1 CRIMORG 80)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 233261,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 233268,
      "EditedText": "The intention was that, on the basis of our previous discussion of the objective 3 plan and the comments that were made at the briefing with the Scottish Executive officials, we would try to produce a short draft report highlighting our views at this stage. We would also try to incorporate into the report any comments that members had when they received the final version of the objective 3 operational plan. That report would be tabled at our meeting of 14 December to assist with the discussions with the minister, but it would still be a draft report. After the meeting we would revise it quickly to take into account what had been said there. The finalised report would be presented to the Scottish Executive. That procedure was agreed to assist the Executive to finalise its operational plan, so that it could still submit the plan to the European Commission this side of the Christmas and new year break."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
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      "ID": 6013,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 233271,
      "EditedText": "I had a detailed brief based on the original plan, but when I asked questions from it at the briefing the officials said that they had changed the plan so much in some areas that they were reluctant to give answers based on the previous draft. What worries me is that we will have a draft report on a draft plan that has now changed."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C233273",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 233273,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to follow up on some of the points that have been raised, because I was also at the briefing. Am I correct in understanding that the comments that were made at that briefing have been taken into account in the draft report? There was broad agreement among all of us who were present at the briefing on some of the areas that we would want to be addressed in the plan."
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  {
    "ID": "C233274",
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 233274,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 233280,
      "EditedText": "I will check whether there is a clash with the Local Government Committee meeting. Our meeting is at 2 o'clock in the chamber, but I will check the status of the Local Government Committee meeting. We were not due to meet on 14 December. Today's meeting was to have been our last meeting this side of Christmas. Next week's meeting had to be scheduled in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 233285,
      "EditedText": "Although this is partly the Executive's fault, I must say in its defence that it is tied as well, as this report must be in Brussels by 17 December. As it is a lengthy report, can we get a briefing on it if it comes in tomorrow or the day after? Can a SPICe researcher give us a synopsis of it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 233286,
      "EditedText": "We will do what we can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 6009,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6009,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 233066,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:03"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 7 December 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 6009,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6009,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Hugh Henry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 233067,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this meeting of the European Committee of the Scottish Parliament.I have an apology from Dennis Canavan, and Ben Wallace has indicated that he will be late."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 233069,
      "EditedText": "Speaking on behalf of the SNP, we are very happy about the topics that we have been allotted. You made an interesting point about involving members of other committees, convener. That is a good suggestion. For example, I  imagine that we might want to hear what the Education, Culture and Sport Committee thinks about disseminating information to reach teachers and pupils.If one member is the lead person on a subject, would they draft the report themselves or would the clerk help them? In Europe it was done mostly by the clerks and the members took the credit; it might not be like that here. You mentioned hearings, convener, and that suggests travel. In some cases, it might be necessary to go furth of Scotland to meet European bodies. There could be a problem meeting the costs of necessary travel. We might have to have permission. Have those matters been considered?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 233070,
      "EditedText": "Any travel beyond Scotland would require approval. It is a rigorous system. I did not envisage that we would be considering that type of travel in developing the reports. If there is a specific requirement, the case would need to be made, first of all to the committee and then to the relevant bodies. It would, however, be the exception rather than the rule."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 233072,
      "EditedText": "And, of course, we are all here as individuals, not as representatives of political groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 233074,
      "EditedText": "There are two ways of progressing that. One is through Irene Oldfather's portfolio, which relates to links through European networks. The other is through Ben Wallace's enlargement of the EU portfolio. If David Mundell is interested in that, he should ensure that those members know about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C233075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 233075,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what Winnie Ewing said about the general focus of the report. It is spot on. There are lots of important issues in the report and the timetable that we have will allow us to raise them. Maureen Macmillan has an important area to deal with in terms of industries in the Highlands and Islands.In many areas, we will need the help of the Scottish Executive and civil servants to understand what the Executive is doing in policy terms and how the situation is developing. Will our clerk be able to make those links for us? In my experience, it is heck of a difficult to get hold of the right civil servant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 233078,
      "EditedText": "It could be a mixture of both. If you had arranged a hearing with groups from the salmon farming industry, you would want someone to take notes. If the discussion were informal, a clerk would not be required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C233079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 233079,
      "EditedText": "Most of the people whose views I will be canvassing are based in the Highlands and Islands. It would be easier to meet them up there than for them to come down here. However, that has implications for the clerks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 233086,
      "EditedText": "Like Cathy, I wanted to mention duplication. I wonder whether the first stage of the programme will include an investigation of what information is already available in the various areas, because there is probably quite a lot. There may be an overlap, not only from a European angle, but from the point of view of other committees. In Maureen Macmillan's area in particular, work may already be under way.My second point is about the time scale. If we all have separate areas, although we may be overlapping, why cannot we all start at the beginning? Is there some reason why we cannot start now to look at our areas? Stephen Imrie will no doubt tell me that there is a good reason."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6010,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 233095,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in your faith in the inevitability of the single currency, but that is another matter, Ben."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C233096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 233096,
      "EditedText": "All those countries that will be part of the enlargement process will not be part of the euro zone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C233108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 233108,
      "EditedText": "Where there is a need to separate them, we can agree to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 233109,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure to which paper Sylvia was referring—I do not think that I have it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 233119,
      "EditedText": "The links between tourism and economic development cannot be ignored either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 233120,
      "EditedText": "However, sport and culture do not fit neatly with those."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 233123,
      "EditedText": "There is a limit to what we could cope with. We will consider Sylvia's comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 233124,
      "EditedText": "I mean that we should do that at a later date, not now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 233125,
      "EditedText": "We have already spoken about European networks and links between that subject and enlargement of the European Union."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 233129,
      "EditedText": "If, in the next week or so, members indicate to Stephen Imrie the issues that they want to work on with the reporters, we will try to incorporate that into the programme.The paper is private at the moment, but do members agree that we should release it as the view of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 233132,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I still need to reserve my position on structural funds and additionality. We still have not had the advantage of discussion between Andrew Wilson, Mike Watson—convener of the Finance Committee—and Hugh Henry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 233133,
      "EditedText": "We either agree that those are the topics that we will examine or we do not. If there is a caveat, we will hold the programme back until we agree on the detail. We cannot go forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 233134,
      "EditedText": "We are not deciding the timetable today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 233135,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but we are deciding on the issues, and that can be put back if we do not want to decide yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 233138,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I am. If we are to examine structural funds and additionality, that will involve some members of the committee in work. However, the first part of the process was to have been a discussion between me, the convener of the Finance Committee, Andrew Wilson and you to agree on how we might address that. We have not had that meeting yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 233141,
      "EditedText": "On page 4 of the forward work programme document, there is a list of the various organisations that we thought it might be useful to consult. We should include training organisations with either business and industry, or with education and information. Allan Wilson, who perhaps has an interest in that area, might know of some training organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6010,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6010,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 233142,
      "EditedText": "Once we get into the detail of the programme, we will return to that. The committee will have to agree on the remit for each bit of work for the reporter. Although the reporters will go away and do that work, they are doing so on behalf of the committee, so the committee will have to consider a suggested work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 233146,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Jamie McGrigor.Tavish Scott has produced a paper on the forthcoming European Fisheries Council. I remind the committee that we asked Tavish to consider the problem, to talk to the industry and to report on what the view of this committee should be in relation to the Fisheries Council, which is meeting on 16 and 17 December. The idea is that we send the report to John Home Robertson before he goes to the council meeting and then invite him to a committee meeting in the new year so that we can hear what was discussed and agreed to in Brussels.I thank Tavish for an excellent piece of work, which he has done in a short time, and ask him to give his presentation to the committee, after which we will consider his recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C233147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 233147,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I am grateful to all the organisations that helped me, and in particular to the Scottish Parliament information centre and Stephen Imrie. I commend to you all the brief that was provided by the Scottish Fishermen's Federation in advance of tomorrow afternoon's debate, and which I think members will have received by now.There are aspects of this issue that are pretty technical and, it must be said, quite dry, so I will have to test you all individually afterwards. Laughter. Suffice it to say that I have tried to write my report in a way that is understandable and not too technical. As I have an agricultural background, on these issues I am as much a layman and am on as steep a learning curve as the rest of the committee.One of the key points to be made is that the structure and the—as it were—ritualistic way in which the process takes place are in need of reform. They will not be reformed at the next Fisheries Council, but we can ask some of the wider questions of the minister when he—I hope—appears early in the new year; I might highlight those questions at a later date.The way that the system works is that we ask fishing businesses to plan their investment programme on the basis of a decision that is made every December. There cannot be many businesses in the wider economic sphere that have to plan on such a basis, which is why it is important that the system changes. In other words, the system must change from one that creates a very short-term business environment, to one that creates a medium and long-term environment. We should strive to introduce such a change to the system.The other aspect of this—which I know everyone who has been involved in fishing over a period of time feels strongly about—is that fishermen themselves are not involved in the assessment of how their industry should be taken forward. That is possibly unique in a regulated industry. It comes down to how the industry is managed and regulated. However, that decisions are made about people's lives when those people cannot—other than through the political process—influence day-to-day decisions, is an indictment of the current system. There is no doubt that we will want to introduce the involvement of fishermen into the process.My final general point concerns regional management. Getting people in the industry involved in the day-to-day processes is tied to the desire in all political parties for regional management of fisheries. Sea areas would be divided up and those who fished the areas would have a greater say in what happened there in terms of conservation.At the forthcoming Fisheries Council, the main point to make will be about haddock—a predominantly Scottish species that is caught by the Scottish white fish fleet. This year, there has been a large uptake of young haddock, and conservation measures that are endorsed by fishing organisations could be introduced to allow those small fish to escape. In other words, the industry would catch sizeable, marketable, high-value fish to satisfy the needs of the consumer, but the small fish would be allowed to escape.I wanted to bring two net size samples with me today, but I was not allowed to swipe them from the boat that I was on in Lerwick on Friday. Without the samples it is difficult to describe the difference between them, but it is basically the difference between a diamond mesh and a square mesh. When they are dragged through the water, one of them closes up and the small fish cannot escape, but the other—the square mesh—allows the small fish to escape. The size of the square is obviously important. The Press and Journal has reported that matter accurately in the past few days and the Scottish Fishermen's Federation is striving for a conservation regime that takes account of those factors. For haddock, the introduction of technical conservation measures is a great step forward, and I would argue that the industry in Scotland and in the United Kingdom as a whole can lead Europe in that process.The other recommendations are pretty self-explanatory. Most people would take points 20 and 21 as read. Point 22 is about technical conservation measures. If there is one message that I want to get across, it is that the desire for and drive towards technical conservation measures are possibly the most important thing that the committee can promote. I hope that we can encourage the minister and his civil servants to work with the industry to achieve that goal. Point 22 stresses the importance of creating a long-term, sustainable industry, and points 23 and 24 follow on from that.The wider points are included in the brief that has been provided by the Scottish Fishermen's Federation, which I commend to you all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 233148,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Tavish. That was excellent and concise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 233153,
      "EditedText": "This report is specifically for the meeting that is to take place on 16 and 17 December. What are you suggesting that we ask the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee to do, Bruce?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 233154,
      "EditedText": "It is a wider point. I would like the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and the Rural Affairs Committee to bring forward suggestions about how we can better maximise the downstream benefits for industries associated with fish landings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 233156,
      "EditedText": "If I may speak on behalf of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, there are—I hope that my colleague Allan Wilson will agree—only two things in the report that would interest that committee. First, there is the potential for boosting downstream activity in industries such as fish processing. Secondly, if the Rural Affairs Committee endorses a recommendation on mesh size, that will have financial and all sorts of other implications. Perhaps we should get into the habit of noting matters that may be of interest, rather than sending whole reports. The Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee is up to its ears in reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 233157,
      "EditedText": "The report would go to the convener, who would determine what goes on to the agenda. We would want the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee to examine paragraph 7 in particular. It would be for that committee to decide how it took the matter forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C233160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 233160,
      "EditedText": "Does the report cover the renewal of the fleet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 6011,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ID": 6011,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 233163,
      "EditedText": "We should put him up for a plain English award."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 233165,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is scrutiny of European documents. At the end of the meeting I will come back to discuss the documentation that is circulated for this item. For now, we will go through the recommended course of action for each numbered document. For each number, I will move that we approve the recommendation. If anyone has anything to say, they should let me know.For document SP 468 (EC Ref No 12373/99 COM(99) 456 final) and document SP 481 (EC Ref No 12585/99 DROIPEN 18) we will request the Scottish cover note and the documents will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 482, we will request the Scottish cover note and the document will be considered at the next meeting. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 233166,
      "EditedText": "There are timetabling issues on document SP 482. We should refer the document to the Rural Affairs Committee. The explanatory memorandum gives timetabling information on the proposal. Will that memorandum be discussed today?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 233167,
      "EditedText": "The recommendation is to request the Scottish cover note and to consider the document at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C233168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 233168,
      "EditedText": "We need to think about this today despite that recommendation. Paragraph 16 of the explanatory memorandum says that the proposals\"are expected to go to the November Fisheries Council.\"It is too late for us to comment. That is why I wanted to flag up the timetabling issue. How did we get into this situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 233170,
      "EditedText": "Bruce, you also suggested sending the document to the Rural Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0091058+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 233172,
      "EditedText": "The proposal will have been passed. We will approve the recommendation and Stephen will report back to the committee on the timetabling issue. For document SP 524, we will request the Scottish cover note and the document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 525, we will request the Scottish cover note and the document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 513 (EC Ref No 12795/99 COM(99) 547 final) we will request the Scottish cover note and the document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 470 (EC Ref No, 12031/99 COM(99) 486 final) we await the explanatory memorandum, we will request the Scottish cover note and the document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 484 (EC Ref No 12030/99 COM(99) 487 final), we await the explanatory memorandum, we will request the Scottish cover note and the document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 495 (EC Ref No 12458/99 COM(99) 544 final), we await the explanatory memorandum, we will request the Scottish cover note and the document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 498 (EC Ref No 12347/99 COM(99) 541 final), we await the explanatory memorandum, we will request the Scottish cover note and the document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 503 (EC Ref No 12350/99 COM(99) 551 final), we await the explanatory memorandum, we will group the document with document 498 and we will request the Scottish cover note. The document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 511 (EC Ref No 12349/99 COM(99) 552 final), we await the explanatory memorandum, we will group the document with document 498 and we will request the Scottish cover note. The document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 507 (EC Ref No 12656/99), we await the explanatory memorandum, we will request the Scottish cover note and the document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 514 (EC Ref No 13052/99 EURODA C 22), we await the explanatory memorandum, we will request the Scottish cover note and the document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 349 (EC Ref No 10251/99 SEC(99) 1213), we await the explanatory memorandum. Depending on its contents, we may refer the document to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. That decision will be taken at a future meeting. That is agreed.For document SP 393, we await a response from MEPs. Depending on the response, the committee may scrutinise the document at a future meeting. No action will be taken at this stage. That is agreed.For document SP 417 (EC Ref No 11492/99 COM(99) 425 final), the clerks await feedback from the Executive on the implications for Scottish industry. No further action will be taken at this stage. That is agreed.For document SP 488 (EC Ref No 12318/99 SEC(99) 1729), no further action will be taken, but a copy of the document will be sent to the Enterprise and Lifelong Committee. That is agreed.For document SP 489 (EC Ref No 12392/99 COM(99) 536 final), no further action will be taken, but a copy of the document will be sent to the Rural Affairs Committee. That is agreed.For document SP 505 (EC Ref No 12680/99 COM(99) 554 final), no further action will be taken, but a copy of the document will be sent to the Rural Affairs Committee. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C233184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 233184,
      "EditedText": "Presumably this subject forms part of the remit of the group that we are forming to look at European training and education initiatives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 233185,
      "EditedText": "We will bring the document back as part of that remit but also send it to the Education, Culture and Sport committee for its interest. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 233186,
      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following documents:"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 233189,
      "EditedText": "Document SP 447 is about the famous Atlantic salmon originating in Norway—it is a vital issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 233191,
      "EditedText": "Too late, is it? The problem has been going on for 20 years and is never solved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 233197,
      "EditedText": "SP 493 (EC Ref No 3623/99 PE-CONS SOC 351 CODEC 579)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 233202,
      "EditedText": "We could ask the Scottish Executive for an indication and reconsider the matter at the next meeting. Thank you, Cathy.For document SP 496 (EC Ref No 12456/99 COM(99) 468 final), the recommendation is that no further action be taken. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 233203,
      "EditedText": "This is an interesting item. I know that we do not have time to go into detail on every document, but this is the Community supposedly at its best in the area of humanitarian action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 233204,
      "EditedText": "Would you like some background information on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 233208,
      "EditedText": "SP 500 (EC Ref No 12187/99 COM(99) 498 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 233212,
      "EditedText": "SP 508 (EC Ref No 12742/99 COM(99) 496 final CNS 99/0203)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6012,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 233220,
      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following documents:"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 233224,
      "EditedText": "If members want to see paperwork about those documents, they should speak to Stephen Imrie at the end of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 233225,
      "EditedText": "I would like a copy of document SP 510."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 233226,
      "EditedText": "The clerk can supply you with one after the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 233232,
      "EditedText": "SP 529 (EC Ref No 12154/99 COM(99) 513 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 233233,
      "EditedText": "SP 530 (EC Ref No 12188/99 COM(99) 521 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6012,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ID": 6012,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 233236,
      "EditedText": "SP 533 (EC Ref No 12191/99 COM(99) 524 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
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      "EditedText": "SP 490 (EC Ref No 12507/99 PESC 387 COASI 33 CODUN 21)"
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      "EditedText": "SP 494 (EC Ref No 12867/99 COPEN 56)"
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  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "EditedText": "Thank you. That will be corrected."
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  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 233259,
      "EditedText": "Stephen Imrie wants to come back to the document that Bruce Crawford queried."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 233264,
      "EditedText": "That is quite a challenge, Margo. The next item concerns the role of the European Committee in relation to human rights. Following the discussions at previous meetings, we had asked for a report on what we could legitimately consider. The clerk will circulate that report and we can return to it if necessary when we consider our future work programme. The next item is a letter from Bill Miller MEP, in which he makes some useful suggestions about European programmes. This is rather different from the work that we have asked the rapporteurs to do, but the committee may want to consider commissioning a seminar to link in with the European Commission, identifying the various programmes and funding sources that Scottish organisations and institutions can tap into. That work could provide education for members as well as information for members of the public who look to the Parliament for advice on such matters.Winnie Ewing will be familiar with some of the descriptions in the letter, but others may wonder what the new SOCRATES initiative means or what is available through the DAPHNE initiative or ARCHIPELAGO. That could be a useful starting point for discussions at a future meeting."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C233265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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      "HeadingID": 6013,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 233265,
      "EditedText": "I can see the proposal being of value to members of this committee. However, local authorities are already participating in many of those initiatives. For example, North Ayrshire Council has been participating in SOCRATES for some time. I know that a great deal of work has also been done in Scotland on the DAPHNE initiative. There are some very well-informed people out there who are already doing a good job in accessing funds."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "At a future meeting we can consider the various initiatives and funding sources. It was very helpful of Bill Miller to bring this to our attention.The next issue that I had put on the agenda was how we deal with members' business. Some of this may be covered when we finalise our work programme, but I am aware that there have been a number of expressions of interest in allowing members to present pieces of work. To some extent, that will depend on the work programme and how long it takes to commission the reports that we have requested. I may want to come back to this, to see whether we have space on our agenda in which to progress other issues relatively quickly.I would like to say two things about the date and time of our next meeting. We are proposing a meeting on 14 December to consider the objective 3 operational plan. With your agreement, I will circulate our draft report, which is based on comments that were made previously. If members want to make any alterations, they should inform Stephen Imrie by 5 o'clock tomorrow, so that he can finalise the report. The report incorporates comments that members have made. The intention is to have those changes approved so that the report can be submitted to the minister ahead of next week's discussion as this committee's view on the plan."
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  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 233269,
      "EditedText": "There are two separate issues. The draft report is based on members' earlier comments and the informal briefing. Its aim is to focus some specific attention on areas that concern us. However, it is not our final report. We will have an opportunity to revise it further at the meeting of 14 December.The second issue, which is the inadequate availability of documents ahead of an important meeting with the minister, was touched on by Ben Wallace. He is right to say that the plan is a very bulky document and that it will be difficult for us to give due consideration to it. Do we know when the final draft of the document will be available?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C233275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 233275,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful if we could see the draft report, which would give us an indication of how things stand."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C233278",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
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      "ID": 129
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
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      "ContributionID": 233278,
      "EditedText": "Would you like me to check when the Local Government Committee meeting is due to take place, or when our meeting is scheduled?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233279",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 233279,
      "EditedText": "At the moment they seem to be scheduled for the same time."
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  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C233283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 233283,
      "EditedText": "I, too, may have problems attending next week. I want to be clear about this. You want us to submit our comments on the draft report that we more or less agreed at a previous meeting. We have not seen the report, but it takes into account the comments that we made at that meeting. The report will be circulated, and we will have to comment on it by tomorrow. However, the report is not based on the finalised plan. I am not sure that that makes sense."
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  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233288",
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      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 233288,
      "EditedText": "I propose that the January meeting focuses on interviewing Lex Gold and members of his committee who are considering the programme on the monitoring of management structures. We will want to meet a range of organisations to examine that. We should therefore schedule that meeting in Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C233289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 07 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1337
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6013,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ID": 6013,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 233289,
      "EditedText": "What is the date of that meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:08.0247309+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ID": 17655,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 579914,
      "EditedText": "Oh well, in that case—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 17657,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 17657,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 579938,
      "EditedText": "It is imperative for the committee to recognise the urgency of the situation that faces the pig farmers. Many committee members will have raised the crisis facing the industry in Parliament on numerous occasions. Last Friday, when I toured a pig farm in Aberdeenshire and met many farmers who had come long distances to have a question and answer session with me, it became clear that they are desperate. They are looking to the committee to address the situation and we should do that as soon as possible. I therefore support the comments that the convener has just made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 579701,
      "EditedText": "I would like to begin by asking about the history of the scheme. What do you think may have caused the upsurge in demand for the scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:13.361802+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 579802,
      "EditedText": "I will return to the argument about what farmers believed that they would receive from the scheme. While I can understand that not everyone would have seen the letter to Jim Wallace, its contents would have been reflected in the feeling in the department at that time. That would have been passed on to the farmers who hoped to benefit from the scheme. There seems to be some concern that not all the applications that are in will require funding. There might be applications that have no matched funding, and which will be withdrawn. There is talk of a new scheme being introduced under the new special funding, to which some of those applicants might apply, and other schemes are available that the applicants might be able to fit into. Would it be possible for the Executive to underwrite the scheme, given the ways that applications might be made to other programmes for which funding is available? Other applicants who do not have matched funding now might wish to wait until the new scheme is drawn up. That would mean that those applicants who have invested a huge amount of money and time, and are waiting for their applications to be processed, might receive the money that is available now. Rather than asking someone to add another £22 million to a scheme, the Executive could underwrite the existing scheme and say that money will be available in some form for those who need it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee Report",
      "HeadingID": 17656,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ID": 17656,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 579929,
      "EditedText": "It was good. It showed how agencies working on the same problem can work together. The theme of partnership ran throughout the day. There was some overlap, but generally agencies were working together for the good of the area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 579789,
      "EditedText": "As 10 per cent of the budget was wiped out by those fluctuations—which is a significant amount—did any cash come back into ABIS?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 579795,
      "EditedText": "I am referring to European funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ID": 17653,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 579897,
      "EditedText": "I fully take on board what the minister says. Has the fishing industry been consulted on this move?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 579698,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 on the agenda is the Highlands and Islands agricultural business improvement scheme. I can advise the committee that we have with us Mr Dave Fergusson, the audit adviser to the Parliament. As witnesses, we have the Minister for Rural Affairs, Ross Finnie, who is accompanied by Andrew Robertson, the chief agricultural officer and Jan Polley, the head of the agricultural policy co-ordination and rural development division of the Scottish Executive.I have been asked to begin by allowing Ross Finnie to make a short statement to the committee, after which we will proceed with technical questions to the representatives of the Scottish Executive rural affairs department. Thereafter, we will question the minister"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 579708,
      "EditedText": "The question is fair and we asked it ourselves. ABIS is only one of a number of schemes that we operate. We wanted to see whether there was anything particular about the scheme because, by and large, this kind of problem has not happened on any other scheme and, as far as we know, it is not happening anywhere else. We looked at what happened last winter and who told us what about what might result from the changes that were made. Most of our contacts are with the representative organisations—the National Farmers Union, the crofters and the Scottish Landowners Federation, for example. We ensured that we took repeated soundings through contact with those organisations and the Highlands and Islands monitoring committee, which is the other organisation on the ground through which we operate. Even from a review of the situation at the time, it is clear that there was no mention that there was likely to be a problem. Indeed, people were concerned that if the changes did not take place until March, there might not be enough time for farmers to take up the money that was available until October. The representations that we received were about that. We have checked that very point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Rural Affairs (Ross Finnie): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 579699,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I am pleased, as are my officials, to have this opportunity to discuss ABIS. In response to the committee's request, my officials have submitted a fair amount of detailed papers to you. I hope members did not feel that there was too much information. Perhaps there never can be. I hope that the information we supplied was what your clerk requested of Mr John Graham. I do not want to repeat what is in the documents—we would be here until Sunday if I did—but I would like to make a brief statement on the problem that I inherited. If the committee has read the papers carefully—particularly the appendices that detail the applications that came in—it will have noted that applications for £5.1 million of grant had been received before the end of August, which was within two months of the closing date for applications. During September and October, we received applications for £21.5 million. That increased the total value of applications received this year to £26.6 million, which is higher than the budget for the scheme.When I examined the budgets that were presented to me on coming into office, it was clear that only the remainder of the original £23 million of European grant had been allocated to the scheme. There had been no adjustments to it other than those explained in the appendices. No additional funds had been put into it.It was put to me that a simple way to deal with the overshoot in demand would be to request additional funds from the Treasury. On the face of it, that was an attractive proposition. I have thought long and hard and taken further advice and it seems to me that it is not really an easy answer. Members will understand that ministers sometimes have to request additional funds—as I have had to do in relation to the declining incomes of hill farmers—but in terms of the broad perspective of the Parliament, that is not a viable option in this case. I have considered all the facts that have been placed before you to see whether there is a way in which the scheme might have been administered better. The trouble with that approach, however, is that one inevitably applies hindsight. We might want to examine something that I will call son of ABIS—the committee might have useful contributions to make about how such schemes should be run.I have some sympathy for members of my department in relation to the way the issue arose. Given the fact that crofters and farmers have to match the funds that they apply for, in light of the severe problems that are faced by crofters and farmers it is difficult to believe that anyone could have forecast that they would collectively apply for a total of £23 million.The strange thing that the tables we circulated show is that the flow of ABIS applications did not increase markedly following the introduction of improvements to the scheme at the end of March. They increased in September and October, when 3,742 applications were received. That compares with 4,412 applications during the first four years of the scheme.The department is not in a position to fund all the applications that were received in September and October. Anyone who examines our budget will find that to be the case. It is also impossible for us to cover ABIS commitments by ring fencing EU resources that have been allocated to the new Highlands and Islands special programme. I am happy to follow that up later, as we want to examine how the new scheme might operate. Under the European rules, I am not permitted to announce that I can commit those funds—that would put the new scheme at risk. Some capital project grants are likely to feature in the new scheme. Members of the committee have already seen the draft regulations, but the grants will be subject to negotiations on the new scheme with the European Commission—and negotiations are unlikely to open until well into the new year. I feel not at all comfortable about the events that have occurred—that grotesquely understates my feelings on the matter—but I do not wish to give any impression that I am complacent about it. I have inherited an extraordinary situation and I do not think that anyone could have foreseen the level of applications that have been made. I remind members that, irrespective of the overshoot, it should not be forgotten that under ABIS the Highlands and Islands have benefited to the tune of £18 million. As I have already mentioned, convener, I am accompanied by Jan Polley and Andrew Robertson, and we are all happy to assist the committee in any way we can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 579702,
      "EditedText": "If there had been a more even flow, it would be easier to say. I have to say that it is quite difficult for me to understand what was in the minds of the applicants. Jan Polley might want to elaborate on the history and the committee's lengthy deliberations before arriving at the decision to make changes but, as I understand it, the intention of those who revised the scheme and published the revised literature might have been to come up with a more attractive scheme. However, that theory is not entirely borne out by the analysis of the number of persons who applied for the new measures in the revised proposal. That makes the matter more puzzling. If there had been a huge welter of applications in direct response to the new scheme, we could have concluded that opening the process up in that way was right and that we had misjudged how attractive that was. We need to consider the papers that illustrate that the level of applications under the new measures is not significantly different. The curious thing is that measures that attracted applications worth only £13 million or £14 million over five years suddenly produced applications worth nearly £20 million at the final stages of the scheme. Members should understand that it is difficult for me to get into the minds of applicants. They saw it as an opportunity to use the available funding, but I cannot speculate on why they should have done so in such huge measure, in a spurt, in the last two months.Members might also be interested in why the scheme was changed: Ms Polley could elaborate on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 579706,
      "EditedText": "Are you not concerned about the apparent lack of ability to detect what is going on in farming communities? Jan Polley talked of speculation when she was asked about the upsurge in applications. What does that say about the liaison between the rural affairs department and its main client group? If we are discussing the present situation in terms of speculation, what does that say about any future scheme, the estimates that can be made for it and the reliance that we put on such estimates?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 579707,
      "EditedText": "I will ask Jan Polley or Andrew Robertson to deal with the scheme and the flow of applications, but I direct your attention, Alasdair, to the tables that have been provided for this meeting. If you look at the figures for the applications received by area offices, you will see that the value of applications increased after March, but their number was up only to perhaps 700 in any month. I invite you to look at the tables carefully, with regard both to the volume and the amount of applications. I am not ducking your question, Alasdair: you have asked the question that we have asked ourselves. It is only in the last eight weeks shown that the amount of applications is way over £1 million in any period. We cannot be complacent about your question; if we are going to have what I call son of ABIS, we will have to consider more sensitive monitoring. I am not necessarily saying that we have got it right, but I invite members to examine the tables. By volume and value, the applications increased after March, but in no way was there an oversubscription of the £6 million that was available for the final year. That £6 million—roughly—was available for the final year of the scheme, and amounted to twice the amount that had been taken up in any previous year. The previous highest annual level of uptake was £3.1 million. Jan could perhaps comment on how we have considered that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 579709,
      "EditedText": "It is always easy to talk with the benefit of hindsight, but I believe that there may have been a warning. In his letter of 18 February to Jim Wallace, now the Deputy First Minister, Lord Sewel said:\"In recent months, the flow of claims has accelerated quite rapidly\".It would have been known that a new scheme was on the way. In my experience of farming, the months of March, April, May and even June are not a time when one has a lot of time to fill in application forms. I suspect that that little sentence, coupled with the timing in the farming calendar, may have given a hint of what was to come, although I accept that it would probably not have shown the extent of the increase. Is that possible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 579712,
      "EditedText": "At the close of the previous scheme? I am sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you meant at the time the letter was written."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 579716,
      "EditedText": "No, to the new measures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 579717,
      "EditedText": "So is only £1.5 million of the backlog attributable to the new measures?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 579719,
      "EditedText": "So where do the rest come from? Are they claims that were submitted prior to the new measures being introduced that had not been dealt with?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 579722,
      "EditedText": "New measures were added to the existing scheme. The £1.5 million relates to things that were not available under the previous scheme. Farmers carried on applying for other things that previously had been available under the scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 579724,
      "EditedText": "We had assumed in the calculations that there would be a bit of a rush. You asked why the changes came in only in March. I cannot speak on Lord Sewel's behalf, but the consultation proposal for new measures had started long before then, in 1997. A number of things took over, including the fact that the whole of the Highlands and Islands programme was being reviewed. It was not technically possible for us to introduce new measures before that process was complete. The comprehensive spending review had also been initiated by the incoming Labour Government. It was therefore not possible for us to introduce any new spending commitments at that stage. The earliest we could get moving on the programme was September 1998, when we got the final agreements from the Commission and so on. That was when we were able to start drawing up the statutory instrument and putting everything in place. It did take a long time, but there were reasons for that, many of which were outwith our control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 579730,
      "EditedText": "Can people be on both schemes at once?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 579731,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but they have rather different aims and objectives. I do not think that it necessarily follows that failure to get on the countryside premium scheme would push people towards ABIS."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 579736,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that a large number of completed resource audits were in existence for which applications had not yet been made? If so, could those have formed the basis for predicting the maximum number of possible applications?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 579741,
      "EditedText": "We could consider that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 579745,
      "EditedText": "No. As you rightly point out, the resource audit gives an absolute maximum number of projects, but it is very unlikely that any farmer would have been able—or even have wanted—to have undertaken all the projects identified in a resource audit which had, perhaps, been carried out two or three years before the fall in income had taken place. It would not have been financially possible for a farmer to do that, particularly given the plight of the industry at the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 579748,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not think that it is an overestimate. Given that the deadline for applications has passed, the value of the true shortfall is, technically, £23.133 million, which was calculated on the basis of the applications lodged by the due date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 579752,
      "EditedText": "I take it that you are suggesting that every farmer read, in full, Jim Wallace's letter, Lord Sewel's letter and the scheme's regulations, before they arrived at that conclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 579754,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to answer your question but I am in difficulties because I am not responsible for Lord Sewel—I must make that absolutely clear. There is a constitutional problem. It does not seem to me to be unreasonable that what you construe as a promise—and you are a lawyer, Fergus—must be seen in the context of Mr Wallace's question. Therefore, one must read Mr Wallace's and Lord Sewel's letters, both in full and in the context of the explanatory leaflet that sets out the scheme's rules. Following the advice that I have been given, my position is that, in view of those three elements, Lord Sewel's letter did not amount to a promise, given the allocation of moneys to that scheme; my position is that such an interpretation is outwith—or goes beyond—the context of reading those documents together. Ms Polley may be able to give more background information, but we are now into a difficult issue—this is about another Administration in another place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 579756,
      "EditedText": "I am not aware of that. That is a very difficult question for me, convener. I am not Lord Sewel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 579757,
      "EditedText": "I wish to take up that point, as I was going to come on to it later and it is the nub of this issue. Never mind what went on under previous Administrations, the farmers are interested in what will happen now and in the future about the £23 million of applications that are outstanding. As Fergus Ewing pointed out, it is an accepted principle of good government that an Administration that takes over from another—and this Administration is different from the previous Administration—accepts the responsibilities of previous Administrations. I do not want to get into legalese, but does the minister agree that there is a moral obligation on the current Administration to meet the expectations of the farmers and crofters, regardless of whether those expectations are based on a legality? I am not interested in whether this is a technicality—I am interested in the moral obligation that faces this Executive as a result of a promise made by John Sewel. I understand that you are responsible for a finite amount of money, minister. However, if there was ever a case in which you should be willing to knock at the chancellor's door to obtain more money, this is that case. I would like you to address the issue of the moral obligation to our farmers and crofters in the Highlands and Islands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 579759,
      "EditedText": "Although I am not trying to imply that the plight of farmers and crofters in the Highlands and Islands is any more deserving than that of those suffering from the other farming crises, the difference is the promise made by Lord Sewel on behalf of the previous Administration that\"sufficient resources will remain applied to the ABIS to ensure that all outstanding commitments can be met\".That is unequivocal. We know that the pig, beef and sheep industries and other agricultural sectors are in crisis and that your budget is limited. However, that is not my point. Do you recognise that the Executive has a moral obligation to meet the commitment given to farmers and crofters in the Highlands and Islands? If so, will you make sure that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is aware of that commitment and ask him, on this one occasion, to release further funds to meet that moral obligation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 579760,
      "EditedText": "I have some difficulties with this. The question that Mr Wallace asked was in the context of a discussion about whether further funds should be taken from ABIS and applied elsewhere, as it was likely that ABIS would not use them. That had happened before when £2.5 million was removed from the scheme and applied to crofting township schemes. It was decided that, having revamped the scheme, the balance of the £23 million available should remain with the scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 579761,
      "EditedText": "So you do not believe that the Government has a moral obligation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 579766,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry—I do not follow your question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 579769,
      "EditedText": "I have a supplementary question. A second point that arises from Fergus Ewing's question is why Lord Sewel made these statements not once, but twice. A guarantee to pay every application from a fixed fund is either a reckless statement or is backed up with a guarantee that the money can be topped up from another source. Can we find out why Lord Sewel made this statement and whether he was given any advice that enabled him to repeat it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 579771,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, I do not think that Alasdair Morgan was directing his comments at me. I now read letters three times before I sign them.I am not able to deal with the question. I have had long discussions with my officials. Although we realise that this is a serious issue and are anxious not to be obstructive, there are various conventions that have to be observed. Ms Polley cannot speak for Lord Sewel and there are limitations on the public disclosure of advice to ministers, as Alasdair Morgan and Elaine Murray will realise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 579785,
      "EditedText": "I fully agree with the latter point. Clearly, we all benefit from the wisdom of hindsight."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 579788,
      "EditedText": "The point that you are making applies to all European funding, whether it is another type of structural funding or grant schemes for mainstream agriculture. Under the structural fund schemes, as currencies fluctuate over the period of the programme, allowance is made for that in a couple of tranches. Perhaps two or three times, over the five years, the Commission will provide more money. It is then up to the monitoring committee to decide how to allocate that money.The last tranche that the monitoring committee received was in 1998, which was to cover the period up to the end of the programme. In 1998, the committee had to decide how to allocate that money throughout its programme. It considered the whole structural funds programme and put that money into the areas that were tightest, through grants such as those for the Highlands and Islands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 579801,
      "EditedText": "The information reached the department. If I remember correctly, there was an increase in the number of resource audits, but—as we explained earlier—such an increase does not necessarily mean that the number of applications will increase. We rely heavily on information from the area offices to tell us what is happening on the ground, but at that point the increase in audits was not translating into an increase in applications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 579805,
      "EditedText": "The maximum amount must still be underwritten. The principle of underwriting—whether in insurance or any other industry—is that one must, at the outset, at least cover what the maximum exposure might be. Perhaps some of those applications would not be able to find matched funding, but I do not know. If any form of finance were sought, I suspect that at the outset we would, as a contingency, at least require access to the maximum amount that would be required. Any principle of insurance would demand that, and this issue is no different. Therefore, if the question is whether that position was made public, the answer is that it was indicated that any excess would be met. We are back to the same difficult argument about Lord Sewel's exchange of correspondence with Jim Wallace, the rules of the scheme, and what applicants were told when they made or received their resource audits."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 579811,
      "EditedText": "I cannot possibly comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 579814,
      "EditedText": "I will deal with the first part of the question. There is an issue of expenditure and the time involved in the resource audit. In constructing the rules for access to the new scheme—which will be discussed in the rural affairs department and in this committee—it seems that it will be possible to devise ways of accessing the new scheme that would take account of those who have already been through the resource audit process.Prioritisation will depend on the rules of the scheme. I am seeking guidance on that, as I do not want to give a commitment that prioritisation will happen, given what has happened before. I am not about to write my equivalent of Lord Sewel's letter to Jim Wallace while I appear before the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 579817,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 579819,
      "EditedText": "Parts of that would be quite easy to do as there is a grant ceiling, so people cannot be granted more than £40,000. On the other aspects, it would be necessary to examine each application on the ground to decide whether it is eligible and, in that way, arrive at the final cost. That would involve a lot of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 579822,
      "EditedText": "That is not what it says in your document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 579825,
      "EditedText": "Which paragraph is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 579826,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 579828,
      "EditedText": "The committee sympathises with Mr Finnie, in that he has inherited this situation. The fact that it was inherited makes the issue unique.I am worried about the communication that has taken place. The convener mentioned that in June evidence was heard that there would be an increase in applications. It therefore worries me that, when I asked about the problem at our meeting on 7 September, you replied only that the scheme was in serious danger of being over-subscribed.We have talked about possible solutions for future problems. There is a question of communication: people must be clear about what the limits of a scheme are. Because of the uniqueness of this situation, however, I agree with Rhoda Grant and Mike Rumbles—the answer is to ask for extra funding from the Treasury. I find it hard to understand your reluctance to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 579831,
      "EditedText": "That point was put to me earlier. Although in no way diminishing what Fergus Ewing and Mike Rumbles have said about the contents of Lord Sewel's letter, I am certain that they will want to take account of the letter from Mr Wallace, the full context of the letter from Lord Sewel and of the explanatory leaflet, in order to establish that Administration's commitment. There is a clear conflict between those elements in terms of the total commitment of the scheme. We cannot read the two documents and come to a single conclusion.I take no pleasure from that. If we read all the documents—the letters and the leaflet—we are left in a complete guddle as to the commitment. However, the guidance is clear that no one has a right to anticipate that they will receive a grant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 579834,
      "EditedText": "Not directly. Local authorities, especially the island ones, link up closely with the agriculture industry and we get their views through that. The committee was set up in 1994, but we established a sub-group for the new scheme. The plan committee is the one designed by the Highlands and Islands special programme. However, we set up a sub-group formed of the agricultural interests, the local enterprise companies and the local authorities in order to gain more input from those people with an interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 579836,
      "EditedText": "It is not my committee. That is a question that I can raise with Mr McConnell. It seems to be a fair question, but I am not in a position to answer it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
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      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 579840,
      "EditedText": "I understand that. That is true of any capital grants scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 579842,
      "EditedText": "It has always been a very strict rule of the European schemes that it is not possible to start work before an application for funding has been accepted. That means that if people do the work, they will not be able to get money for it retrospectively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 579843,
      "EditedText": "So none of the work that we are describing can be initiated until a new scheme has been developed and applications have been processed in the normal manner?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 579845,
      "EditedText": "Farmers and applicants have informed me that there is a concern about the deadline of 31 December this year. They fear that if the applications are not processed to a sufficient extent before that date, they may be left outwith the scope of any solution to this problem. Is there a loophole there that needs to be closed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 579846,
      "EditedText": "That is subject to European rules and has been a matter for negotiation over the past few months. The rules are very strict, but I am sure that Andy Robertson's people will be looking to establish whether the issue that you raise can be taken into account, as it is a potential problem. However, we have to work within the European straitjacket when doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 579847,
      "EditedText": "Can you say at this point that any application that was received by a SERAD office on 31 October or earlier will be processed and included in the broad scope of any subsequent arrangements that may be made?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 579856,
      "EditedText": "Would it be fair to say that applications that are considered on your criteria to be of low priority will effectively lapse on 31 December?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 579861,
      "EditedText": "When we approve an individual application for a building, for instance, we study the estimated costs supplied by the contractor. In that situation, we can be sure of the maximum amount, because the total cost is never less than the estimate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 579864,
      "EditedText": "Will there be a shortfall?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 579865,
      "EditedText": "I should not think so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 579871,
      "EditedText": "I cannot put a figure on it. There is always a drop-out rate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 579873,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid that I cannot put a figure on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 579878,
      "EditedText": "In the sense that we will have assumed that it was not there and then it will appear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 579883,
      "EditedText": "The first priority is, as it always was, resource audits. The second priority was to take in the new measures that we had specifically included in the new scheme. Those measures included the mobile fanks and dippers, information technology equipment, alternative agriculture and horticulture, and residential letting. The third priority was to deal with the storage and disposal of farm waste. The fourth priority was cattle-handling facilities, the fifth was cattle buildings and the sixth was other housing for livestock. The priorities were ranked in that order in the consultation document. After analysing the applications, one has to draw the line at category 3, at which point there is only £2.2 million left."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 579886,
      "EditedText": "I know that resource audits are the first priority. Are we still approving new resource audits? It is my understanding that they could not possibly lead to applications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C579888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 579888,
      "EditedText": "I know that I am not a member of this committee, but I am fascinated by this subject. Some of the farmers who believed that they were going to get grants will be disappointed. I would have thought that they could appeal to Europe—to the European ombudsman or to the European Court of Justice, for example. My advice to my constituents would be to pursue that course of action immediately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 579890,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17653,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 579898,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that it has. The change was first intimated some time ago and the industry has been made well aware of it. A commitment was given on 5 November 1998 to proceed in this way.When I asked whether any complaint had been made about the charges, I was informed that, in so far as the charges were made for marine inspections—to ensure that the work that was to be undertaken would meet safety requirements—there has been no complaint either from the industry as a whole or from the individuals who have been affected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17653,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 579906,
      "EditedText": "That draws our consideration of item 4 to an end. I am grateful to the minister for all his efforts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17654,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ID": 17654,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 579907,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is the Scottish Homing Union petition on pigeons. We addressed the issue before and deferred initial consideration while we awaited information from SPICe. All members should now have a copy of the research note on racing pigeons and birds of prey. The petition requests that the Government review the operation of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, especially with regard to the status of racing pigeons and the balance of population levels with other species of birds. Having taken into account the SPICe research note, the committee is invited to express a view as to whether that would be appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17654,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17654,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 579910,
      "EditedText": "A commission for the Hawk and Owl Trust is also researching the issue of pigeons and birds of prey and is due to report early next year. It would be precipitate to reach a conclusion before the two reports are available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 579915,
      "EditedText": "However, I am prepared to listen to any other comments, of course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579918",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ID": 17655,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 579918,
      "EditedText": "What Dr Murray just said assumes that farmers, if they have nothing better to do, are quite happy to go out on a Thursday afternoon and spray a field. That is patently not the case. I cannot accept that a pesticide tax will reduce the use of pesticides. Farmers do not spray fields wantonly that do not need spraying, particularly given the current economic circumstances in agriculture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ID": 17655,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 579921,
      "EditedText": "I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ID": 17655,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 579925,
      "EditedText": "I draw members' attention to the fact that there is an understanding that, as a matter of courtesy, the committee's response to the petition should be passed to the convener of the Public Petitions Committee before it is issued publicly. I trust that members are content for that to happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee Report",
      "HeadingID": 17656,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ID": 17656,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 579926,
      "EditedText": "We move to item 7 on the agenda, which is a report on the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. I believe that Rhoda Grant and John Munro were present when the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee met in Inverness. A written report has been circulated. Is there anything to add? Where did the committee meet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee Report",
      "HeadingID": 17656,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ID": 17656,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 579934,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?If not, I thank our reporters for representing our interests at that meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 17657,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 17657,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 579941,
      "EditedText": "The only possible time seems to be late morning or lunchtime on Tuesday 14 December. Would that be possible? That would come immediately before the next committee meeting, and I would like to meet the pig farmers before then.In any case, we will confirm the time and date for members. Committee room 1 is booked already, so we will use it for both purposes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 17657,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 17657,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 579942,
      "EditedText": "The farmers might want to come to the chamber for question time, as there will be a question on their issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 17657,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 17657,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 579944,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. We could get tickets for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 17657,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 17657,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 579936,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I met Mr McCartney and around 20 other pig farmers last Friday in Turriff, Aberdeenshire."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 579786,
      "EditedText": "The original overall funding for the agricultural programme in the Highlands and Islands is cited as £23 million in annexe B of the papers that you circulated to the committee, which has intriguing implications for the matter that we are discussing. We are told that £2.5 million was lost through exchange rate fluctuations, between 1995 and 1999. I presume that a significant element of that £2.5 million was ABIS money. Therefore, ABIS suffered due to the exchange rate mechanism during those years.I do not pretend to be an expert on the complexities of European funding, so I would be grateful if you could shed some light on how that situation came about. Was there any insurance policy when that £23 million was allocated? Clearly, the announcement of that figure led to high expectations that that cash was going to be available. However, £2.5 million was suddenly wiped out. Was there any protection that would enable you to fulfil your promises and guarantees, despite the effects of the fluctuations in the exchange rate? Does your department adopt any precautionary principle?What are the implications across the board for the rural affairs budget? If £2.5 million has been lost from £23 million, what are the implications for the rest of the budget? Has the department as a whole lost tens of millions of pounds because of the fluctuations and the chancellor's policy, which is made in London? Does not that strengthen your case for going to the chancellor in London and asking for more cash to help us out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 579791,
      "EditedText": "Is it possible for a department to make a request of the Commission? When the money comes from the Commission, can there be more input from your department to make up for the exchange rate fluctuations? I presume that the Commission does not make that money available of its own free will; a request must come from your department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 579793,
      "EditedText": "Do you have figures to show how much has been lost by your whole department?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 579797,
      "EditedText": "Is any more cash due to come back from the Commission?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 579835,
      "EditedText": "Does the minister think that it would be appropriate for agricultural interests to be directly represented on the main committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ID": 17653,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 579899,
      "EditedText": "The final assurance that I seek is that the bill has no bearing on the reintroduction of a safety improvement grant scheme or on the timing of such a scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Friday 3 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 17651,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 17651,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 579696,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:15"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Jan Polley (Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 579703,
      "EditedText": "All the applications that we received as part of the upsurge following the new measures that the minister has just mentioned come to a value of only £1.5 million. It is clear that the bulk of the outstanding £23 million or £24 million of applications is not due to the measures that we introduced per se. The upsurge may have been due to the fact that the level of grants was increased. Another possibility is that people were panicking because they thought it might be the last scheme ever. They might not have had the money to pay the matched funding at the time, but the rules of the scheme give them two years to pay, so they might have applied in the hope that, sometime over the next two years, there would be an upturn in the fortunes of the farming industry, which would enable them to afford to pay. Those are all maybes and, as the minister said, it is partly speculation. The new measures have a long history. Way back in 1994, when they were introduced, there was a long consultation. The scheme that was introduced was an amalgam of a couple of other successful schemes that had been running in the Highlands By and large, everyone was happy with them. The uptake, however, was very low. The new measures were introduced as a result of a lot of discussion with people in the industry. There was a concern that, if uptake remained low, the money would be filtered out of agriculture and into other parts of the Highlands and Islands programme. It was thought that efforts had to be made to ensure that that did not happen. The thinking among those in the farming communities we consulted was that, through increasing the overall rates and increasing the total amount of grant a farmer was entitled to receive in the entire period of the scheme, the new measures might make the difference. That is why the changes proceeded. However, what actually happened was due to a mixture of responses to the changes and to other factors that occurred to people at the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andrew Robertson (Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 579705,
      "EditedText": "There was a lot of publicity when the scheme was launched in 1994. There are always strong contacts between farmers and our area office staff. Farmers and crofters would have been well aware of the original scheme through that medium."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 579710,
      "EditedText": "Constitutionally, I have some difficulty with that question. As a UK civil servant, I am not able to speak on behalf of Lord Sewel. I can represent only the minister for whom I work. I will try to pick my way through the question. We looked into the matter. It is interesting that the letter from Jim Wallace said that he was terribly worried that all the money was not going to be used. The response, therefore, tried to reassure him that everything was all right. The letter in February was written at around the same time as the discussions with the programme monitoring committee in the Highlands and Islands about whether there was spare capacity to take out the £2.7 million, because we had received representations that we should take out more than that to ensure that the money was used up by farmers elsewhere. We had been trying to work out whether we had enough or more than enough money. Despite everyone's best endeavours and talking about it, we did not think that what happened would happen. We were being told that a lot of people were holding back in the early period because they had been told that new measures would be available. The context in which Lord Sewel replied was that he had been asked to address a concern that the money was not going to be used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 579713,
      "EditedText": "When the letter was written, it stated quite clearly that there was an increase."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 579714,
      "EditedText": "When Lord Sewel wrote the letter, there had been an increase. Annexe E of the papers that we have provided to the committee suggests that there were more than 100 applications in January and in February, whereas in November and December of the previous year there had been 36 and 27 respectively. However, the numbers have tended to be fairly cyclical. At the beginning of 1998, there were more than 100 applications in January and in February. Lord Sewel was, I think, trying to offer an assurance that the fact that 36 and 27 applications had been received was not evidence of an increasingly downward trend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 579718,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 579720,
      "EditedText": "No. The new measures were additional. They did not exclude previous schemes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 579727,
      "EditedText": "The surge resulted from a combination of inducements and the fact that many people failed to get on to the CPS scheme. This was an alternative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 579732,
      "EditedText": "Some time ago I spoke to the Scottish Agricultural College, where I discovered that applications to ABIS had declined, in part, because the countryside premium scheme had gone on offer. Farmers saw that as a more attractive scheme than the old ABIS. Only when the extra carrots were thrown in to ABIS 2 did people change their minds. It takes quite a long time for news of that sort to filter through to farmers. They do not have time to read everything that is issued—especially, as Mr Fergusson was saying, during the busy times of the year. Only when the nights start drawing in do they start to study the application forms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 579733,
      "EditedText": "That is absolutely right, except that the facts make it more difficult than even you are suggesting to speculate about how this situation arose. If your thesis is correct, that would suggest that the majority of the applications that are associated with this surge were stimulated by the new carrots. I agree that the rates have gone up and that the inducements may be responsible for the difference but, as we told Elaine Murray, from the purposes for which the vast majority of the applications were made, it is evident that these applications could have been made at any time over the five years of the scheme. I take your point—people might have found it easier to get on to the countryside premium scheme. However, as Andrew Robertson has just said, that is a very different scheme, for a very different purpose.Your last point concerned how we deal with people who have come into this in good faith. That leads on to how far it may be possible to include some of them in the new scheme. I repeat what I said in my opening statement: you have seen the draft regulations for the Highlands and Islands rural programme and, as you will be aware, it includes what I shall call son of ABIS, for short. That scheme is not yet agreed, so we cannot make commitments on it; if we did, that could seriously imperil the scheme. However, given that its final details will be the subject of in-depth discussion to which members of this committee will be able to contribute fully, and that it will be widely consulted on, it is difficult to imagine that there will not be an attempt to ensure that the regulations give hope to people who have already made applications that they will be encompassed within the scheme. Members of this committee will be among those who determine exactly how people gain access to the scheme and what the regulations are. I would be surprised if you did not think of ways of ensuring that someone who had been through the resource audit procedure for a previous scheme did not have to do so again.I am sorry to sound so speculative, Jamie, but it is my earnest hope that we will have a scheme that will do much to deliver the overrun on those that preceded it. However, this morning I am not in a position to give hard commitments on that. Members of this committee know that we have already applied to Europe for the Highlands and Islands scheme, the detail of which will be adjusted through this committee. Both I as minister and you as a committee, taking on board the experience of this most unfortunate overrun and its potential consequences, can make a valuable contribution to determining the final detail of the scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 579737,
      "EditedText": "The resource audits would identify the investments from which the business might benefit, but they would not in any way commit the business to making those investments. Given the financial plight of the industry at the time, people might have decided not to go ahead with applications for items that had been identified in the resource audits because they could not afford to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 579742,
      "EditedText": "Could you also consider the approved resource audits, which began to alert you to the problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 579749,
      "EditedText": "Is it likely that grant applicants will still seek that money, or are there applications that might not be carried out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 579750,
      "EditedText": "You are asking me to speculate about whether there were frivolous applications. I am not sure that I am in a position to enter into the minds of applicants. We must take it that applications were made in good faith. We do not know, and cannot be sure, whether, having submitted applications, farmers were able to raise funds themselves. I have to deal with the facts that are before me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 579758,
      "EditedText": "That is obviously a difficult question—it is not as simple as you imply, Mike. There is always the prospect, or possibility, of overshooting in any scheme that operates within its rules. That is why the initial explanatory leaflet contained warnings to that effect. You say that there is a moral obligation to meet every application within the scheme—that may be. However, you would then have an interesting argument. Such a huge volume of applications is made—in this case, the total is almost equivalent to the original budget—that people are unable to obtain funds. Nevertheless, that £23 million was very properly applied to the Highlands and Islands.As for whether that is the only priority in my budget, I do not wish to demean the position of Highlands and Islands farmers who suffer severely from other problems. However, although access to that kind of money would no doubt be very welcome in the south-east and in Alasdair Morgan's constituency, even he would recognise that the Highlands and Islands have special difficulties. It would require much wider discussion about priorities for the Executive to create such schemes with funds that do not come directly from objective 1 funding. I know that the scheme's specific nature is not satisfactory. However, given that there has been such a welter of applications, if a scheme which accommodated many of those applications could be constructed, the amount of lost moneys would be substantially less than the figure that I have heard this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 579762,
      "EditedText": "What was done was both within the scheme's rules and regulations and within the context of funds remaining within ABIS not being misapplied or applied to such schemes as crofting township schemes. However, I cannot answer for what Lord Sewel had in mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 579763,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that some applicants who are eligible for ABIS will not be paid?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 579765,
      "EditedText": "Who are those unpaid applicants likely to be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 579772,
      "EditedText": "Given that committee members obviously have an interest in this issue, which of the witnesses can answer that question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 579773,
      "EditedText": "Although, as officials, we are not able to talk on behalf of Lord Sewel or to explain the advice that we did or did not give him, we might be able to recall what was happening at the time that the letter was written to help to explain matters to the committee.That letter was written in February. At the end of January, the department issued a press release stating that, in the last year, farming incomes had fallen by 45 per cent. That coloured most of the thinking at that time. Many aid packages had been brought forward over the previous months and there were new aid packages in January, February and March. One of the farming organisations told us, unofficially, that even if the ABIS changes came in, they would be too little and too late. That was the position in February. I hope that that gives the committee some indication of what may have been happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 579778,
      "EditedText": "We have to argue the matter in a way that can be applied both to this case and to future situations. Having seen what has happened in this case, the prospect of any fund overrunning causes me great concern. Does that mean that we have an obligation to find funds in all cases, even if there is an overrun? My difficulty is that I do not know.We heard from Ms Polley about the context in which the letter was written. However, no additional funding was made available and no change was made to the rules of the scheme. The rules do not indicate any obligation in the event of an overrun of applications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 579779,
      "EditedText": "You miss my point, minister. I am not talking about any scheme, I am talking about the letter in which a specific commitment was given in relation to ABIS. That is a unique commitment. I am not aware of any other case in which such a commitment was made. I accept that any scheme could overrun. In general, funds are limited and farmers and crofters must accept that. However, when a specific promise is made, it is a different matter. That was my point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 579780,
      "EditedText": "I apologise to the members of the committee who have been forming a long and orderly queue to ask questions. John Farquhar Munro has been waiting the longest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 579781,
      "EditedText": "I support much of what has been said by my committee colleagues. The Scottish Executive has a moral responsibility to go back to the Treasury and make it aware of the commitment that Lord Sewel gave in his letter. It was not an idle statement. I am sure that Jim Wallace accepted it as a serious commitment and would have communicated that to his constituents. The farmers of the Highlands and Islands were encouraged to become involved in ABIS, and I am sure that they accepted the statement as a genuine commitment, which is why there was a rise in uptake.It seems appropriate that the Minister for Rural Affairs and the department should defend themselves against the suggestion that they are responsible. They are responsible now, but, as we heard this morning, it is clear that they inherited the problem. As Mike Rumbles said, having inherited the problem, they have a moral responsibility to implement the scheme on behalf of the farming community. If it were the only problem in the farming community at present, we might be more relaxed about the situation. However, it is one of many problems that are affecting the farming communities in rural Scotland, and particularly in the Highlands.Many of the farmers and crofters who got involved in ABIS find themselves in a very difficult position. As we heard, they have spent large sums of money to present their applications and many individuals have not yet been advised that they have not been accepted for the scheme. They are very critical of Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department—not just its headquarters but its area offices, which are going through a difficult time. The area offices are not being given the information to pass on to the ABIS applicants. It is remiss of SERAD headquarters not to make the area offices aware of what is going on.A question was asked about who will get paid and who will not. I am not asking the minister to make a statement on that this morning. However, one might imagine that half a dozen of the ABIS applications amount to a substantial sum of money, whereas many of the applications will be on the less expensive end of the scale. In a commercial world, the decision might be taken to pay the smaller requests and leave out the larger ones. That is a decision for the department to take, but it will be difficult for those people who have already spent money.Many applicants have made commitments to their landlords that they are not able to retract. They have had to implement some of the schemes that they proposed and, having done that, they find themselves in default. As SERAD has always said, starting before receiving written approval disqualifies the applicant.It was suggested that there should be a prioritisation scheme. However, the agriculture industry has said that it does not want to hear about a prioritisation scheme because the farmers and crofters are all in it together. It was suggested that CPS was quite different. I do not think so. The countryside premium scheme is related to ABIS and some aspects are interlinked.We have heard all about what has happened in the past. We are here to take the situation forward. How do we do that? The simple answer is: with finance. We should ask Gordon Brown and the Treasury to make funds available, as they promised in the past. The commitment has been given. SERAD, led by the minister, should be knocking on the door of the Treasury daily, to ensure that this scheme will be implemented. A substantial amount of money should be made available to alleviate the difficulty. As I said at the outset, that is only one of the many difficulties that affect the rural communities of Scotland, but it is the one that is paramount in most people's minds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 579783,
      "EditedText": "Many of my questions have already been asked, and answers have been given. I am concerned that people have spent a great deal of money, but find themselves in an impossible situation. Minister, you are saying that the programme is closed. Although we are talking about a new programme, it seems that it will be difficult to deal with this problem, because of the time scale.I am not a farmer, nor from a farming area, but I think that we should find a way out of this mess quickly. The debate this morning suggests that the problem will continue, which people cannot afford. It is important that a son or daughter of ABIS tries to ensure that this kind of mess does not happen in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 579784,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to react to that at all, minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 579790,
      "EditedText": "No. The monitoring committee is responsible for that aspect. The last time it received any cash back in respect of fluctuations was 1998. The money did not go into ABIS. I do not honestly know where it went. It went into some of the other schemes in the Highlands and Islands structure plan. The decision was made by the monitoring committee to put the money into the areas that were experiencing most difficulty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579794",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 579794,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that we have lost money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 579798,
      "EditedText": "No, because that last tranche was the final payment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 579800,
      "EditedText": "In mid-June, the principal agriculture officers in the Highlands noticed an upsurge in demand for the scheme. Is there a potential communication problem? Perhaps that information did not reach the rural affairs department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 579803,
      "EditedText": "That comment is intended to be helpful and constructive, and I take it in that spirit. If I were able to write the European rules, that is more or less what I would want to do. However, my difficulty is that I cannot do that; I cannot commit myself in advance to adding an amount to a scheme, the specific purpose of which I have not yet fully agreed with Europe. As you know, Europe has the strict view that funds should not be committed in advance. Your suggestion that I underwrite the funds and then move things around might be construed as a commitment in advance of a new scheme. It would be dishonest of me to give an underwriting commitment, when my budget demonstrably does not contain the £22 million needed to meet such a commitment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 579808,
      "EditedText": "You have said that you do not know what caused the sudden upsurge of applications towards the end of the scheme. However, it is clear that the delay in relaunching the scheme must have been a contributory factor. Are you happy about the length of time it took to develop the new scheme and get it going?In your documentation, you say that, at the beginning of 1997, your monitoring revealed a worrying slow-down in applications. Negotiations with the Commission were not completed until a year and a bit later. The Commission finally gave its approval in September 1998, some 18 months later. Even after that approval, the official launch of the scheme was not until the end of March 1999, when you were almost up against the buffers. Is there no way that we can speed up the mechanism? If we cannot, part of the reason must be European considerations, but is everything done as quickly as possible on this side of the ocean?You talk about other pressures, such as Agenda 2000. Were you talking about other pressures in the Scotland Office? Are there insufficient resources to deal with all those things?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 579809,
      "EditedText": "The bulk of the delay was because we got caught up in the review of the bigger Highlands and Islands programme, which was agreed in September 1998. After that, if I remember correctly, the statutory instrument was laid at the beginning of March. The 21-day rule and so on must also be taken into account. What happened in the period in between—and we explained this publicly at the time—was that the branch that was involved was also negotiating the new rural development regulation in Brussels, as part of Agenda 2000. That branch, therefore, had to spend a lot of time in Brussels. The same branch was involved when—and some of you may recall this—the local authorities in Orkney and Shetland wanted to help some of their farmers to transport some of their livestock to the mainland that winter. In order to do so, that branch had to get round the European Commission state aid rules, which, on the face of it, it could not. The staff concerned had put a huge amount of effort into that. The same one and a half people—I say half because there was a part-timer—were trying to do all three of those things.In January, there was a shifting round of resources, because it was recognised that there would be a continuing problem. That is why the statutory instrument was laid at the beginning of March. The problem was well known at the time, because our records show that we were explaining publicly that we were encountering it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 579812,
      "EditedText": "We certainly hope not. Apart from the enormous amount of time spent examining why this scheme has got into this difficulty, and considering staff resources and other schemes, we are concerned—within the rural affairs department—about ensuring that what we do is done on time. I cannot act on behalf of others who have difficulties in processing much of Agenda 2000. I am satisfied that those delays are not being caused within the rural affairs department. They often result from delays in processing in the European Commission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 579816,
      "EditedText": "Will any priorities be set in consultation with the industry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 579821,
      "EditedText": "If an application has been rejected as ineligible, it will have been taken out of the calculation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 579824,
      "EditedText": "I am talking about part 4, which talks about internal targets. The document indicates that the figure includes ineligible applications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 579829,
      "EditedText": "My reluctance to do so arises from the way in which such negotiations are conducted. This situation might be unique, but any call on the reserves of the Scottish Executive would result in that case being regarded as our absolute priority.I am hesitant this morning because, although we know who has been affected, different people will be affected in different ways. There have also been calls on me to make similar applications in cases that are directly related to income, rather than cases in which people indulge in capital schemes. My hesitation is not due to my misunderstanding of what the committee is saying—members' views are very clear in my mind. However, given the range of priorities that have been put to me in many income-driven situations in the agriculture community, I hesitate to commit myself to saying that I will pursue extra funds for only one of them. Other sectors in the industry are making equally pressing claims. I receive a large volume of correspondence calling on me to make applications to the Treasury."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 579830,
      "EditedText": "We have heard that this is a different Administration, but as far as the chancellor is concerned, it is the same one. It was his Administration, which was in charge of the Scottish Office, through Lord Sewel, which entered into the commitment. We can say to the chancellor, \"Your Administration entered into the commitment and we expect you to fulfil it\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 579832,
      "EditedText": "I have to disagree because Lord Sewel makes it clear in his letter that it is difficult to estimate the amount of money that the scheme will require, yet he makes a clear and open-ended commitment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 579837,
      "EditedText": "You said earlier that the people who have spent money—that is what they were asked to do, after all—would be taken into the new scheme if the original money did not come through. Is the new scheme the son of ABIS?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 579838,
      "EditedText": "I was using the phrase rather loosely. The new scheme is part of the Highlands and Islands special programme. As at least one member has pointed out, the scope of the new scheme is not identical to that of ABIS. That is the second reason that I will not and cannot give you an undertaking that every person who has applied to ABIS will be eligible. However, from the regulations for the new scheme it seems that there is every likelihood that a substantial number of those who have applied will fall within the ambit of what I have loosely described as son of ABIS."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 579841,
      "EditedText": "At this stage, I would like to clear up a couple of specific points that have been put to me by farmers.We have spoken about the potential eligibility of applicants to the ABIS scheme for grants under a subsequent scheme. What would be the position of those farmers who, for various reasons, have decided to proceed with work that they do not now expect to be supported by the scheme and who wish to apply for support for that work under a new scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579848",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 579848,
      "EditedText": "At the moment we are processing those applications that fall into the priority categories, so that we can get them approved under ABIS by 31 December. That has to be the first thing that we do. We are not processing any other applications in that way, because they will not be processed under ABIS. We must wait to see whether the same things could be included as part of an application under a future scheme and whether, for example, some use could be made of the resource audit that was carried out under ABIS."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 579849,
      "EditedText": "Is there a danger that if we manage, by whatever means, to develop some method of extending the scope of the scheme as currently constituted, some applications will not be processed and that they will, as a consequence, be missed out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 579850,
      "EditedText": "The date of 31 December is critical as far as ABIS is concerned. If applications are to be approved under ABIS, they must be approved by 31 December. All the applications that are in priority categories will have been approved by that date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 579851,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that those applications that are not considered to be in the priority categories are likely not to have been processed by that date?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 579854,
      "EditedText": "On 31 December, ABIS will close. However, many people will have an interest in the terms of the new scheme that will be negotiated with Brussels over the coming months as part of the Highlands and Islands special programme. The forms that people have submitted to Andrew Robertson's office have been submitted under ABIS. Because of European rules, the applicants may have to fill in new forms and resubmit them on the basis of the rules that are devised in conjunction with the plan team."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 579855,
      "EditedText": "That still leaves the question that Lewis Macdonald raised about what the application is and to what extent we have decided to take account of initial audits. That point still remains. There may be another form to fill in, but there is still scope for discussing how we can take account of previous audits as part of that process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 579857,
      "EditedText": "As far as ABIS is concerned, yes, but it does not get rid of the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 579859,
      "EditedText": "We will not be throwing them in the bucket—that is rather an emotional way of putting it. If the new rules, arrived at with proper consultation with the various interested bodies and with this committee, can take account of previous work, we will have to find a way of ensuring that we can refer back to that.I have to confess that we have not done any work on that aspect, but we cannot have a situation in which we have information about a resource audit, agree with the committee that that resource audit is to be taken into account, and then destroy that information. That would be nonsense, so we must consider carefully how to deal with the information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 579860,
      "EditedText": "One can never be absolutely sure how much money will be paid out on each application. All that one has is a maximum. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 579862,
      "EditedText": "On 31 December, will the total amount of those approved match the total amount of the fund?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 579866,
      "EditedText": "Will the claims also match that figure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 579869,
      "EditedText": "We will try to do what has been suggested so that there is no further spending."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 579875,
      "EditedText": "Even though you know that you will not spend the entire fund, because there will be drop-out, you cannot over-commit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 579879,
      "EditedText": "Quite often approval is given to carry out work during the course of which hidden or unforeseen extra costs might be discovered. We can vary the approval to take account of extra costs. That might compensate to an extent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 579881,
      "EditedText": "That would be within reason. One has always to check such things with lawyers, but that would be the practical operation of the scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 579892,
      "EditedText": "We now progress to item 3 on the agenda. The suggestion is that we proceed with item 3 by receiving further information on ABIS from Mr Fergusson, the Parliament's audit adviser. It has been suggested that that be done in private. I therefore propose that, as Ross Finnie is here to cover item 4 as well, we should proceed to item 4 and return to item 3 in private at the end of the meeting.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ID": 17653,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 579893,
      "EditedText": "We therefore progress to item 4. The minister is here to answer questions on the Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999. Does any member want to comment on the bill to initiate this discussion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ID": 17653,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 579894,
      "EditedText": "I want to comment on the general principle of the bill. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that we were to examine a bill that would have retrospective effect, as we have had many discussions on whether bills can do that. Does the minister want to comment on the fact that, although a bill can retrospectively correct an error or area of doubt in the law on charges that are made by Government, that is perhaps not so easily done when the boot is on the other foot?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ID": 17653,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 579895,
      "EditedText": "I hope that members will forgive me if I say that it is strange to find myself trying to explain the actions not only of the previous Administration, but of the Government before that. Rarely can a minister have been brought before any committee to engage in that rather curious process, so I crave your indulgence.In response to Lewis Macdonald's question, I am advised that the bill is perfectly competent to do what it seeks to do. I am content for the measure to be passed as UK legislation, as it does not attempt to introduce a principle of charging that would affect Scottish business. If there was any suggestion that it would introduce charging, I would have rejected it out of hand. Clearly, any legislation that would impose charging on Scottish fishermen could properly be contained only in a Scottish bill for discussion in the Scottish Parliament. This bill does not seek to impose charging; it seeks merely to remedy a flaw in the way in which the legislation was originally drafted and to provide cover as it legalises actions that since 1996, when charging ceased. For me, that is the biggest issue. There are other practical issues. The bill is intended to cover the activities of both the Herring Industry Board and the Sea Fish Industry Authority. If this committee decided that it would be preferable to have a separate bill, an English bill would still be needed to deal with the Herring Industry Board, which is a creature of the United Kingdom, and that bill would have to extend to Scotland. To rectify the problem, and to deal only with correcting the error that has been made, I believe that this is the most sensible way in which to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ID": 17653,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 579896,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ID": 17653,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 579900,
      "EditedText": "No. Matters that affect Scotland will be determined by the Scottish Parliament and this committee. The sole purpose of this legislation is to deal with an anomaly. It does not create a charge, nor does it prejudice what might take place in the future in relation to safety."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ID": 17653,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 579903,
      "EditedText": "If members have no other comments, I shall read through my documentation so that we know what we have to do at this stage. The bill received its first reading at Westminster on 22 November. Its second reading is scheduled for the week commencing 13 December. The consent of the Scottish Parliament is required before second reading. Our Parliament, in Edinburgh, will consider an Executive motion on this issue on Wednesday 8 December. The motion reads:"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ID": 17653,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 579904,
      "EditedText": "That the Parliament accepts the need to establish the validity of charges levied by the Sea Fish Industry Authority and the Herring Industry Board as set out in the Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill and agrees that the Bill should be considered by the UK Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17654,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ID": 17654,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 579908,
      "EditedText": "I have read the SPICe research note, but I still think that—after the years of neglect and the time it has taken to establish the current number of birds—it would be difficult to agree to any proposal that would reduce the number of birds of prey. I understand the concerns of people who raise pigeons. However, I must say that some of the proposals made me giggle and I cannot see them being taken seriously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17654,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ID": 17654,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 579909,
      "EditedText": "When the matter was first raised, I said that we should wait for the raptor working group's report, which will not come out until next year. There is no point in progressing without the scientific evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ID": 17655,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 579913,
      "EditedText": "The next item is initial consideration of a petition from the National Farmers Union. The introduction of a pesticide tax is a reserved matter and, apparently, the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions is exploring alternatives to that tax with the industry. The petition requests the Scottish Parliament to oppose the introduction of such a tax and the committee has to decide whether to express a view on the matter.I will declare an interest. As a user of pesticides, I am diametrically opposed to the introduction of any pesticide tax."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ID": 17655,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 579916,
      "EditedText": "I think that we agree with you. As enough penalties have been imposed on the agricultural and farming communities in Scotland, I am happy to support your suggestion that we oppose the introduction of the tax."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ID": 17655,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 579917,
      "EditedText": "Although we all have concerns about the burdens that have been placed on agriculture, the initial proposal for a pesticide tax laudably addressed environmental concerns by reducing levels of pollution. It is not a case of placing another burden on farming. However, the proposal did not receive a particularly warm welcome from the majority of respondents to the DETR's consultation. We need to find out what other alternative methods of reducing pollution without imposing burdens on farming are being explored by both the agrichemical industry and the Government. We need more information about such partnership models."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ID": 17655,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 579919,
      "EditedText": "I quite agree. Just as the fuel escalator tax has not served its purpose of reducing fuel consumption, most academics now say that the proposed pesticide tax will not achieve its aim. We should therefore support the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ID": 17655,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 579920,
      "EditedText": "The DETR has consulted and come to the conclusion that other methods need to be found. The DETR is the lead department as the tax is a reserved matter, so I suggest that we forward the petition to the DETR, draw the views expressed in it to the DETR's attention and leave it at that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ID": 17655,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 579922,
      "EditedText": "Is that the view of the whole committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee Report",
      "HeadingID": 17656,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ID": 17656,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 579931,
      "EditedText": "It seemed to work very well. Most important, those who came to give presentations to the meeting were very enthusiastic and were delighted that the committee had come, although I would not say that Inverness is remote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 17657,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 17657,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 579935,
      "EditedText": "We move to an item that has been added to the agenda at my request as a result of the direct communication that Richard Lochhead and I have had with representatives of elements of the pig industry in the past few days. We have a long-standing request from representatives of the pig industry, including Andrew Peadie of the NFU and one or two others, to meet members of the committee. We have a letter from a Mr McCartney, whom I believe Richard has met."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 17657,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 17657,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 579937,
      "EditedText": "While I do not intend going over the details, I will meet Mr McCartney personally. I am meeting the same group tomorrow that Richard met last week. I have the impression, from the representations so far, that the farmers believe that an unprecedented crisis is in the offing in their industry, and they would like to address it in the near future. Would it be possible to arrange a time to meet them in Edinburgh between now and our next meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 17657,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 17657,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 579940,
      "EditedText": "We have already filled in next Thursday lunchtime, have we not? I have lodged a question on the future of the pig industry for next Thursday. I think it is number 11, so it should come up in question time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 17657,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 17657,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 579943,
      "EditedText": "A question by you, by any chance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Employment",
      "HeadingID": 17658,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ID": 17658,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 579945,
      "EditedText": "We will move back to item 2 on the agenda. Cathy was unfortunately not present, but I, the two Richards—Richard Davies, the committee clerk, and Richard Walsh, the senior assistant clerk—and Irene McGugan met to discuss appointing an adviser for our inquiry on the impact of changing employment patterns on rural areas. We propose that this part of the meeting be taken in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Employment",
      "HeadingID": 17658,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ID": 17658,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ContributionID": 579946,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 13:17."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C579751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 579751,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener, for welcoming me to this committee meeting. As a constituency member of the Scottish Parliament, I have been inundated with letters and complaints from farmers, many of whom now face grave financial hardship. I know that all parties, and everyone here, are concerned about the position that farmers now find themselves in. However, my question to the minister arises from Lord Sewel's letter of 18 February to Jim Wallace, to which reference has already been made. In that letter, Lord Sewel stated:\"I can assure you and your constituents, however, that sufficient resources will remain applied to the ABIS to ensure that all outstanding commitments can be met, as well as accommodating any upsurge in applications which may emerge as a consequence of the improvements to the Scheme to which I refer below\". That letter was a promise made by a Government minister. It was an assurance—the word \"assure\" is used. It amounts to an undertaking. It was promulgated to the farmers, who acted on that promise, as they were entitled to. They believed what a Government minister said when they were told that their grant applications would be met and they acted accordingly. Many of them have spent thousands of pounds as a result of that promise. My question is simple: is a promise by a Scottish Office minister binding on the Scottish Executive? If not—such promises can be torn up, as you seemed to indicate in your opening remarks—how does the UK differ from a dictatorship where the rules can be discarded as people go along?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:52.5608702+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C579753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 579753,
      "EditedText": "That is not what I am suggesting. However, I do not believe that it would be necessary for citizens to be aware, personally, of a Government minister's promise for that promise to be binding. If a Scottish Office minister made a promise as recently as February 1999, surely, as a matter of constitutional law, that promise must be binding on the minister who succeeds him or her? With respect, that is the specific question to which my constituents would like an answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:52.5608702+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Friday 3 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 17651,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 17651,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Alex Johnstone): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 579697,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. The committee has had a short private meeting. I want to mention in passing the second item on the agenda, which concerns the appointment of advisers to a committee that will report on rural poverty. Irene McGugan and I have met to discuss the matter. Unfortunately, Cathy Peattie was not present at the meeting. We want to discuss the matter further in private. I suggest that we postpone this item until the end of the meeting so that we can deal with it quickly before we go home.Are we agreed on that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 579700,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, minister. I would like to take this opportunity to welcome Fergus Ewing and Jamie McGrigor: they are MSPs who have joined committee members today to look after what they see as their interests as Highland members. I propose to begin questions at this point. We may wish to start with technical questioning to the Scottish Executive rural affairs department representatives, and then progress to discuss policy with the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 579711,
      "EditedText": "Nonetheless, do you accept that there was a pointer to quite a significant increase in the number of applications at the close of the previous scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 579715,
      "EditedText": "Did you say that only £1.5 million could be attributed to the new scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 579721,
      "EditedText": "Is it not the case, however, that some farmers withdrew applications and resubmitted them because of the suggestion that the new measures might be more favourable than previous ones?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 579723,
      "EditedText": "Why were the new measures added so late? The scheme was to end at the end of the year. Was not it rather late in the scheme's life—just a few months before its demise—to bring in new measures? Given that some farmers would not have known what the new circumstances would be, surely it was fair to assume that there would be a rush of applications? Surely farmers would have thought that they were as well to take advantage of what they knew as to take pot luck with the new scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 579725,
      "EditedText": "Could the increase have had something to do with the extra carrots, so to speak, that were thrown in to encourage people to take up ABIS, combined with the fact that the countryside premium scheme, which was running at the same time, was difficult to get into and had a lot of failings? Many people who failed to get on to the countryside premium scheme reapplied for ABIS, particularly as it was the only grant that was any good for getting work done to buildings. When people saw that ABIS was more attractive, they also had to arrange to get money to match the scheme funding. They therefore had to go to banks to get that first. All those factors contributed. It should have been foreseen that there would be a large surge in applications. After all, was that not what you wanted? Was it not hoped that this money would be taken up? You can hardly blame the poor farmers. What are you going to do, minister, about the many people who have put up money in good faith, having been asked to do so? You can hardly leave them in the lurch now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 579726,
      "EditedText": "There are two issues there. As well as the countryside premium scheme, the crofting counties agricultural grants scheme in the Highlands and Islands is open to applications for certain building projects.We are back to the question of how to anticipate demand. That concerns me not only now, but with regard to the running of any future scheme. Jamie McGrigor is right to say that the intention was to induce applications. As Ms Polley has explained, the concern towards the end of last year was that we still had £6 million—we had to double the previous number of applications even to use the funds. I do not think that anyone is blaming the farmers. That is not what we were trying to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 579728,
      "EditedText": "Mr Robertson, would you like to deal with that technical point before I address the last issue that Jamie McGrigor raised?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 579729,
      "EditedText": "The countryside premium scheme has a rather different objective from ABIS. It is an environmental scheme that involves our paying people to manage areas of land for environmental good. ABIS is a capital grants scheme, through which we provide assistance for capital projects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 579734,
      "EditedText": "Minister, I want to take you back to the question of predicting and managing the band, both for ABIS and for son of ABIS. In paragraphs 30 and 31 of the paper that you have submitted to the committee, you discuss the various warning signals that alerted your staff and officials in the department to the fact that there was going to be an overrun. I want to ask you about resource audits in particular. As I understand the scheme, a resource audit has to be completed before an application can be made. However, the alarming rise in the number of applications that occurred in September and October does not seem to have been preceded by an equivalent rise in the number of applications for resource audits. Is there an obvious explanation for that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 579735,
      "EditedText": "There are two issues here. A resource audit could be carried out at any time from the start of the scheme. If it identified that a particular investment was needed, the application for that investment could be made at any time following the approval of the resource audit. However, if a new resource audit showed that the business would benefit from different investments, that second audit would show up as a new resource audit prior to a new application. Applications are not, therefore, entirely dependent on new resource audits being carried out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 579738,
      "EditedText": "However, the department would have a record of those businesses that had completed resource audits and had not made applications on the back of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 579739,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 579740,
      "EditedText": "When managing and predicting demand in the future, would that be one place to start?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 579743,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 579744,
      "EditedText": "I have a supplementary question. If you were to add together all the projects within the resource audits that are on file, you would have a maximum potential exposure, which I presume would be many times in excess of what you thought the total would be. You could have made a risk assessment of the applications that might be in the pipeline. Has anyone totalled those figures?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 579746,
      "EditedText": "We should consider that issue in future. If an application is made following a resource audit, one might want to inquire whether the outstanding projects would be likely to form part of a future claim. That is applying hindsight to a problem that we only now find ourselves in, which I think is your point, Alasdair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 579747,
      "EditedText": "As a supplementary question to Alasdair's point, is it fair to ask you, minister, to estimate the true shortfall in the scheme, given that the £20 million that the press refer to may be an overestimate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7356398+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 579764,
      "EditedText": "Although I have scraped the barrel of the very limited amount of money available to the rural affairs department and have found £1 million to add to the scheme, clearly a substantial proportion of the £21 million of outstanding applications to ABIS cannot be paid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 579767,
      "EditedText": "Do you know yet what priorities will be applied when the decision is made about who will and will not be paid?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 579768,
      "EditedText": "In an attempt under very difficult circumstances to use our limited funds, we consulted the industry—admittedly very late—about applying such priorities and came up with six potential categories of prioritisation. Only the first three categories can be contained within the £2.2 million available; the applications that come under the other three categories cannot be met."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 579770,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a point about that. Lord Sewel will not have made this statement off the top of his head. It is likely that he put his signature to a letter that had been written by someone else, which, if his promise cannot be fulfilled, makes me concerned about whether he was receiving appropriate advice. Perhaps we can learn some lessons from that for future schemes, as it raises an issue about the availability of resources as one scheme ends and a new scheme begins."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579774",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 579774,
      "EditedText": "To some extent, looking for someone to blame is a blind alley. At the end of the day, the minister, Lord Sewel, was responsible for his decision. There is no point exploring which civil servant advised each part of the policy. Similarly, the current minister, Ross Finnie, is responsible and the Executive is responsible for the position in which the previous Administration has left them.I asked the minister a direct question and I was not very happy with his response. I asked whether he felt that the Executive has a moral responsibility to fund the £23 million shortfall from another source. I recognise that he cannot find that money from within the budget that he has been allocated. However, does he think that the Executive has a moral responsibility to our farmers and crofters in the Highlands and Islands and, if so, will he ask the chancellor to provide funds from the UK budget to meet those responsibilities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 579776,
      "EditedText": "I have some responsibilities to the farmers in Scotland in discharging those parts of my job that relate to rural affairs: agriculture and fisheries and so on. The use of the word \"moral\" seems to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 579777,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to interrupt, minister, but I did not mean you, personally. I meant the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 579782,
      "EditedText": "You suggested a means of prioritisation. Those who have rejected that have done so purely because they want the whole scheme to be paid. Someone is also bound to ask whether the officials of the rural affairs department reminded all applicants at the point of the approval of resource audits, as they are required to do when processing applications, that there is no commitment by the department to approve any subsequent application. It might also be asked whether we stated clearly the way in which the scheme was operated, and whether there was a guarantee that an application for financial assistance would be approved, which the rules of the scheme do not give.That returns us to the argument that Mike Rumbles suggested that we would get into. However, that is not an easy argument. We were asked whether we were applying the scheme. The letters to and from James Wallace may be understood in different ways. I do not know, sir. I am concerned about stating, on the basis of this discussion alone, that this is the only priority of the Scottish Executive, or that it is the Scottish Executive's main priority for additional funding. I am concerned that that should not be taken in the round, either in terms of the other sectors of agriculture or—good gracious—other possible priorities within the whole range of Executive activities, in case that might prejudice future funding.I have great difficulty telling officials how we are to get funds for a scheme that is essentially funded as part of a programme that is now closed. Given that we will be looking for funding to match the new scheme, I am nervous about getting into the wrong argument in trying to deal in the future with these outstanding applications, and about prejudicing the way in which we might resource other aspects of agriculture and rural affairs on an continuing basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 579787,
      "EditedText": "There are two points there, and I shall have to ask for some technical backup.You are right, Richard. These schemes are not denominated in pounds: they are denominated in whatever was used at that time. They were not euros. What were they at that time? Ecus. Of course they were. How could I forget that? The schemes were denominated in ecus. Yes, the currency depends on the timing of the scheme. There are no mechanisms or rules. We get some top-ups. Perhaps Jan could explain that. There is some recompense in those schemes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 579792,
      "EditedText": "Ms Polley is saying that we received money in compensation for the exchange rate, but that, when it was received in 1998, the decision of the Highlands and Islands monitoring committee was that, as that scheme was way under in terms of its requests, the money was applied to other Highlands and Islands objective 1 schemes, which were already under pressure. We are using hindsight again, I am afraid. I would like to think that the monitoring committee made a reasonable decision on the basis of the information that was available to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 579796,
      "EditedText": "We got money back from Europe; I am not sure that there has been a loss. There has been a loss to this scheme because of circumstances elsewhere when the scheme was applied. I am not sure that there has been a loss from the total."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 579799,
      "EditedText": "That is what we have been told."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 579807,
      "EditedText": "We have examined in detail only the priority applications, but it is true that some of the present applications might exceed the expenditure ceiling. When that is examined in detail, those applications might total less than £22 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 579810,
      "EditedText": "Given that such problems are always going to crop up, as will other schemes and other emergencies, are we always going to be late?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 579813,
      "EditedText": "On the question of resource audits, when the relaunch of the scheme is being considered, have you discussed what might and might not be possible in terms of negotiation with Europe? Is it possible that, in relaunching the scheme, you could identify applicants who have had their resource audits approved and give them priority when making allocations? Is it possible to have prioritisation when relaunching the scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 579815,
      "EditedText": "The intention is to draw up the detailed rules of the plan through the plan team, which has already been set up in the Highlands and Islands, and which includes farming representatives, local enterprise companies and local authorities. That group must make a number of decisions, including whether it prioritises and, if so, how it prioritises. The point that you are making will have to be taken into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 579818,
      "EditedText": "I will return to the point that Rhoda Grant raised. In part 4—on internal targets—of document LTL10611 you state that the value\"of applications received' (column E) shows the original cost of all applications at the time that they were received. It includes the cost of applications which have not yet been approved, applications which were subsequently rejected as ineligible after examination in the Area Office, and applications which may have had their eligible cost restricted for a variety of reasons\".How difficult would it be to get a handle on the reduction in cost that would result from applications being rejected at the area office, and on the reduction that would result from those applications whose eligible cost had been restricted? Such an audit would be helpful in prioritising what happens to those eligible applications that remain outstanding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 579820,
      "EditedText": "Area offices have, presumably, a record of the applications that they have rejected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 579823,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, Elaine. What page are you talking about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 579827,
      "EditedText": "What we are saying there is that we have not been able to work out exactly what is ineligible, particularly with regard to outstanding applications. When I said that ineligible applications had been deducted, I meant that they had been deducted from those that had been processed.Some aspects of ineligibility are easy to work out on paper; others are not and would require closer examination."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 579839,
      "EditedText": "Do you take on board that the agricultural sector is not the only one affected? This also has an impact on the building firms and contractors that would have implemented these schemes. It runs all the way through Highlands and Islands life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 579844,
      "EditedText": "Yes, unless it is possible to use some of the other departmental grant schemes or schemes run by the local enterprise companies for tourism and so on. I know that some people will go ahead anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 579852,
      "EditedText": "Because we are not processing them under ABIS and do not have the funds to do that, there would be no point in trying to get approval by 31 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 579853,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that, on 31 December, the problem will cease to exist as far as you are concerned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 579858,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that those applications will go in the bucket on 31 December?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 579863,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7512635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 579867,
      "EditedText": "The claims may match that figure or they may not because I understand that they sometimes vary, but that is a feature of any grant scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 579868,
      "EditedText": "What we are giving is an approval to carry out the work. If the applicant does not carry out the work, there will be no claim."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 579870,
      "EditedText": "Is there any indication from the previous years of the scheme of the number of approved applications that do not proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579872",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 579872,
      "EditedText": "Is it significant?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 579874,
      "EditedText": "That is an issue that we have been wondering about. We thought that we might be able to make some assumptions about the drop-out rate and increase the level of grant that we paid out. We have been told firmly by lawyers that we would be in breach of EU law if we did that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Polley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 579876,
      "EditedText": "It is one of the irritating features. All that we can say is that the money that is not used will probably be available for the new scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 579877,
      "EditedText": "As an extra?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 579880,
      "EditedText": "Even after the scheme closes on 31 December?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579885",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 579885,
      "EditedText": "The pressures on me since I took office have been such that neither the budgetary allocations nor European money have met the needs of many parts of the rural community. We have not made a direct approach. I have listened carefully to what has been said this morning. I have tried to explain why I am concerned that an application on this matter to the Treasury, under the present arrangements between the Government and the Executive, should perhaps be dealt with as a priority over other claims that I am making.I know that you are not happy with that answer, and I understand why—you are focusing solely on the ABIS issue, whereas I have to focus not just on this issue, but on issues from other sectors of agriculture that put an equal pressure on me. I shall reflect on all the evidence that has been put this morning, but I will not give an undertaking that we can prosecute one claim in advance of another without weighing up the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579887",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 579887,
      "EditedText": "I think that I am right in saying that all the resource audits are now approved. The reason for continuing to regard them as a priority is that they have a self-standing benefit, in that they are a sort of slot analysis of the business. Therefore, they can be used in future, not just in relation to a grant scheme, but to look at the health of, and the opportunities for, the business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579889",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 579889,
      "EditedText": "If there are no other questions or comments on the ABIS scheme, I will suspend the meeting for a couple of minutes, after which we will proceed with the agenda.I thank the minister and the officials for coming here today in what must have been fairly traumatic circumstances, given that they were well aware of the pressure that they were likely to be under. Thank you for your help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 579891,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ID": 17653,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 579901,
      "EditedText": "The bill is short, which we welcome. I want to put on record the fact I would normally vigorously oppose any Westminster bill that dealt with a devolved matter. In this case, however, as the bill clearly deals with a mistake that was made by the Westminster Parliament, I am delighted to support it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C579902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17653,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 579902,
      "EditedText": "I am delighted to have such support, which Alasdair Morgan has voiced much more eloquently than I could have done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sea Fishing Grants (Charges) Bill 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17653,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17653,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 579905,
      "EditedText": "I understand that that motion will be taken without debate. Time has not been allocated for a full debate, but members will have the opportunity to investigate the proposal here today. Are we content for this matter to be dealt with by the Westminster Parliament?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17654,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 579911,
      "EditedText": "In that case, shall we await further information?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17654,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ID": 17654,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 579912,
      "EditedText": "We should wait for the reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 579923,
      "EditedText": "I tend to agree. I am a bit doubtful about accepting petitions about an issue on which the goalposts have moved since the petition was submitted. Much of what we are talking about is no longer being proposed. If the situation had not changed, I would have liked to consider the matter in more detail, instead of taking a broad-brush approach and saying that taxes on pesticides are either good or bad. The suggestion is sensible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Pesticide Tax)",
      "HeadingID": 17655,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 579924,
      "EditedText": "Can I assume that Lewis's proposal is unanimously accepted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee Report",
      "HeadingID": 17656,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 579928,
      "EditedText": "Was it a productive meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee Report",
      "HeadingID": 17656,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 579930,
      "EditedText": "It was a full meeting of the committee at a remote site—or at least remote from Edinburgh. How did that work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee Report",
      "HeadingID": 17656,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 579932,
      "EditedText": "No, but it is remote from Edinburgh. I corrected myself; I meant remote in the same sense that Edinburgh is remote from Inverness. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee Report",
      "HeadingID": 17656,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 477.0,
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      "ID": 17656,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 579933,
      "EditedText": "The meeting was very well received. Reports of the meeting were good and the presentations were constructive and useful. Given the success of the first attempt to take a committee to the periphery, I imagine that there will be a number of requests from other committees to do the same."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 17657,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17657,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 579939,
      "EditedText": "Can we arrange to do that now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7668834+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 579804,
      "EditedText": "I am not proposing that you use money from your budget. Like Mike Rumbles, I am suggesting that you could ask the Treasury to underwrite this scheme. I am not suggesting that you give a commitment that applicants will be considered under the new scheme, because you are obviously unable to do that. I am saying that the new scheme might be able to take some of the applicants, while other grant schemes that are available in rural areas could pick up others. It is a case of underwriting the schemes, bearing in mind that nearly half the applicants might drop out and others might be able to get the funding that they seek from other schemes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 579806,
      "EditedText": "Some of the present applicants will not, however, be eligible under the scheme. As far as I understand it, there has been no audit of those applications. Is it correct that you do not know whether they are eligible for funding under ABIS?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579882",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 579882,
      "EditedText": "What are the priorities for the applications that you are approving?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee Report",
      "HeadingID": 17656,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ID": 17656,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 579927,
      "EditedText": "We met at the Town House."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 579704,
      "EditedText": "What appears to be coming through is that there was perhaps not significant publicity about the scheme prior to the consultation. Could the scheme have been made available to people who had found out about it because of the consultation, thus leading to the upsurge?To what extent was the old scheme publicised? How much knowledge of it was there among the farming communities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:13.361802+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 579833,
      "EditedText": "The programme's monitoring committee was mentioned and, according to your notes, its membership includes local authorities, enterprise companies, voluntary organisations and environmental organisations. Were there any agricultural interests represented on that committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C579884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 579884,
      "EditedText": "Although I have some sympathy for the minister in his personal predicament, which is not of his own making, I have no sympathy for the apparent view of the Executive as expressed at this meeting. The Executive refuses to honour the clear assurance that was given by Lord Sewel. The farmers in the Highlands who are affected will meet today's news with outrage. I hope that the minister will consider making a ministerial statement next week so that this matter can be debated fully in our Parliament.I want to clear up one area of slight ambiguity in the minister's evidence. Does the Executive refuse to make an approach to Westminster for the cash that is required, or has it made an approach and been turned down?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C579755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 579755,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the pledge—the promise, the undertaking, the assurance—given by Lord Sewel in the letter of 18 February was repeated by him at a subsequent National Farmers Union meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:52.5608702+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C579775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 03 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3227
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17652,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17652,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 579775,
      "EditedText": "Hear, hear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:52.5608702+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 666291,
      "EditedText": "As the witnesses will be aware, we are conducting an inquiry into telecoms developments. As part of that, we have requested witnesses from a local government field. I welcome Councillor David Hamilton, Mary Dinsdale and Bill Hepburn, who are representing COSLA, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. We also have a panel from individual local authorities: Brian Kelly of Glasgow City Council, Alan Henderson of the City of Edinburgh Council and David Banford of Dumfries and Galloway Council. Bill Hepburn is also representing Highland Council.If everybody is happy, we will proceed to the first area of questioning, for COSLA, regarding parts of its submission. I invite its representatives first to make any additional comment they may have over the next few minutes. It is up to yourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Dinsdale (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 666294,
      "EditedText": "There has not been any advice issued yet, because we were considering the consultation that had taken place and we were waiting for the outcome of the seminar. We will issue some advice in due course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 666295,
      "EditedText": "Have you formed a view on the siting of masts on local authority-owned property? What approach has your membership taken on that issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 666296,
      "EditedText": "The position, because of how this has developed, is that each authority has taken on its own remit. That is why we are attempting to get some cohesion. We put a questionnaire out some time ago. The final results indicate that 23 local authorities prefer full planning permission. A number of authorities are currently working with sites on their properties. A number of those authorities have now reviewed their position. That will come through in the responses to members' questions.The vast majority of local authorities have now taken a view that they will not put masts on their own sites, unless they go through certain lines. Members will be aware that masts under 15 m do not require planning permission—that is 45 ft in the old imperial system. While 15 m does not sound so bad, 45 ft is quite a height. The approach varies from authority to authority, but we are beginning to pull together. A consensus view is developing that something must be done. If that means a change in the future for those authorities that are building on their own property, so be it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 666303,
      "EditedText": "I can comment on your first point. A series of national guidelines, called national planning policy guidelines—or NPPGs—exist for other aspects of planning, such as retailing, alternative energy, industry and so on. I see no reason why there cannot be national guidance on how planning authorities should deal with telecommunications, which is a large, dynamic and expanding industry. Part of the council's case is that there should be better guidance on good practice and policy. I cannot comment on the COSLA working group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 666310,
      "EditedText": "A full planning application usually takes two months. If an environmental assessment is required, it will take four months. It is unlikely that any telecommunications development would require a formal environmental assessment under the environmental assessment regulations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 666311,
      "EditedText": "I will approach that subject from a slightly different angle. What percentage of planning applications are determined within two months?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 666312,
      "EditedText": "The figure is approaching 80 per cent for householder applications in the Highlands. We have specific government targets. A comfortable majority of planning applications are determined in the two-month period. If they are not, there are usually good reasons: they are contentious or there are problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Dinsdale: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 666314,
      "EditedText": "Of the 30 that responded, 23 councils indicated that they would prefer full planning control, four indicated that they would not and two indicated that they would prefer either prior approval or some form of increased control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 666315,
      "EditedText": "I want to examine sensitive areas and the precautionary approach. In the latest deliberations, did COSLA decide that sensitive areas should be introduced into the planning framework for telecommunication developments and, if so, why did it decide that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 666318,
      "EditedText": "In your submission, you said that any attempt to define sensitive areas in which the height of masts would be restricted would mean that the operators would simply have to have a greater number of masts to provide the coverage. Should issues other than the height of masts be taken into account when we consider sensitive areas? Do most local authorities have an opinion on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 666327,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is, but, for the sake of argument, if you were to refuse an application on health grounds, it would have to be an obvious, almost extreme, circumstance that could be backed up by evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 666332,
      "EditedText": "The industry is keen to assure us that the masts have no health impact. Two possible issues arise, even if one accepts that assurance. First, the extent of the use of telecommunications or the technological changes associated with the industry might be such that what is a low-level risk at the moment might become a higher-level risk in the future. I take it that there is nothing in planning law to deal with that eventuality. I assume that you have influence only over where something is sited.Secondly, if permission was granted to site one type of mast, and in 10 years' time the company wished to replace the mast with a new form of technology, would there be a requirement for a repeat planning application that could take account of health considerations? Once planning permission had been granted, could a company put whatever it wanted on a particular site?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 666339,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that there is a danger of effecting a two-tier structure? My own council is Shetland Islands Council, on which I served as a councillor on a planning authority. In one case, an electrical substation was sited right next to somebody's house. The council officials there—you are right about the need for advice—did not have the resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 666342,
      "EditedText": "If the focus is on health considerations, and if planning legislation allows you to deal with the physical aspects of the structure only when the structure is being put in place for the first time, is planning legislation the most effective means of dealing with the health or broader environmental impacts? To take another environmental/health issue, air pollution is not dealt with by planning; it is dealt with through other forms of legislation. Do local authorities have a view about balancing planning controls with other mechanisms?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 666345,
      "EditedText": "We like to think that we are moving towards that. We have a local planning section in Highland Council that is called community planning and economic development. It is an attempt to bring together all the interests of the public, public bodies and industry—the community generally—in forming a plan. Telecommunications would certainly be part of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 666352,
      "EditedText": "You are making the point that I made earlier. We are getting responses about visual appearance and about the physical apparatus that is causing concern. A debate is taking place, but there is a perception that there is a health and safety issue. The representatives of the larger councils might give members more specific information on that later. We need a more cohesive debate on a wider basis.As a layman, I can tell you that 150 people attended last week's seminar. We had to turn people away. For the first time, COSLA had to move the venue because of the volume of the response, and we still had to turn people away. The people who attended came from all walks of life. As chairman of that seminar, I was taken aback by the number of people who were there. Some people were there for personal reasons; others were representing public organisations or the private sector.As an official, Bill Hepburn takes the view that there is no point in a council rejecting an application if it will end up in court several months later because it cannot sustain its objections. We have major difficulties in deciding how to proceed. We are trying to get some semblance of order across Scotland, so that we can work in unison. It may be that that leads to oversimplification, but we need some guidance.Small changes do not need planning applications. If someone wants to build a massive extension on their house, they must go through the planning process, but if they want to change a door, they do not need a planning application. If a company wants to build a 100 ft mast, it will have to apply for planning permission, but if the mast is less than 15 m, it does not need planning permission—although it would still be a massive structure.At the moment, different local authorities have different policies, which is not helpful. We need consistency across Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 666354,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I can adequately answer that question. Perhaps some of my colleagues from the other local authorities, who are more involved in health issues, can comment on that later.My reading of the situation is that all the authorities and operators are complying fully with current guidance. Without any scientific reasons for doing so, the guidance might be lowered fivefold to give comfort to the public and to bring it in line with other European and international guidance. As far as I am concerned, that is a question for experts. Given the degree of public concern, scientists will be required to give advice to Government on suitable precautionary distances or circumstances. It is not a question that we, on behalf of COSLA, can easily answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 666355,
      "EditedText": "It will be difficult for us to produce a report that may well ask the Scottish Executive to establish a precautionary principle and to take account of all the public concerns that David Hamilton mentioned, but which does not offer any guidance on what constitutes \"close\" and on what would be reasonable central guidance for the Executive to issue to local authorities. We—and COSLA—have a responsibility to give some indication of what we are looking for. If COSLA wants to be able to operate that guidance on the ground, it will need an idea of what it means in practice. One of the first questions that the Scottish Executive will ask is what exactly COSLA wants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 666358,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to establish COSLA's view and to open the matter up for wider discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 666361,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I will get very far with my questions as you are obviously developing your thoughts on the subject. We have considered evidence for a blanket approach to not siting masts close to buildings. Do you have a view on that? Perhaps you will consider it in the written evidence that you will provide. For example, can masts be sited in school grounds as long as they are not close to, or on, schools? There are practical issues for you to think about. What is your view on the difference between taking a precautionary approach for individual buildings and taking such an approach for sensitive areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 666370,
      "EditedText": "That is interesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 666371,
      "EditedText": "I have a question arising from something that Bill Hepburn said about microcell development. When we spoke to the operators, it bothered me that there is no compulsory system for labelling where microcells are placed. Do you see any value in a central register for each local authority plotting each location where there is any such equipment, and in a labelling system at those sites?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 666372,
      "EditedText": "I do not see much value in a labelling system from a planning point of view, except that it would lead to general recognition when work is going on in buildings. I am pretty sure that the roads authorities would want installations labelled so that they knew what allowances they would need to make during maintenance or renewal work. Widening the question out from microcells, it would be valuable to have a proper register of all installations in open countryside and in urban areas, so that everyone knows where they are and operators can be directed towards them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 666375,
      "EditedText": "That is a good question. Material planning considerations are defined to some extent in national guidance, but there are no absolutes, and material considerations can be framed widely in the particular circumstances of any case. If one considers health, case law shows that the perception of health effects can be considered material. If one considers the broad process of planning assessment in relation to materiality, decisions are made on giving weightings to the different material factors. There must be reasonable evidence as to what the effects might be in terms of the amount of traffic, the emissions from a chimney, or some other measurable, quantifiable effect that could be substantiated in the courts if necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 666377,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer for different authorities or speculate on inconsistencies within authorities. However, in my experience, the materiality of any facet of a planning application is a matter of careful judgment and there is scope for variations in judgment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 666379,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it would."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 666380,
      "EditedText": "Suppose health were to be a material consideration. Would you seek an alternative source of advice, such as the NRPB?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 666384,
      "EditedText": "What about other forms of applications, ones where there is no adopted local plan or a local plan is out of date? How would the operation of material planning considerations relating to telecommunications developments be dealt with?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 666385,
      "EditedText": "It would not be dealt with differently, except that the status of land would become more of a material consideration. Development should be considered in the context of the development plan unless other material considerations indicate otherwise. However, the situation would not be greatly different. Planning applications often raise health effects and authorities might require advice from health boards and other such bodies. Mostly, authorities are not in a position to make judgments about the technicalities of health."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 666387,
      "EditedText": "Consultation normally takes two forms. We consult regulatory or other bodies that might have an interest and we consult the public. I do not see that process changing. It would not be normal for planning authorities to consult the health authority. In this instance, I suspect that we would not get clear answers if we did, given the current state of research. On behalf of my council, rather than COSLA, I suggest that we need clearer Government guidance on the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 666389,
      "EditedText": "It is not entirely clear whether we are going down the correct routes in the context of weaknesses in the planning structure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 666391,
      "EditedText": "That is my concern. In a sense, what you are saying is that you advocate a precautionary principle, but that the mechanism for enforcing that is inappropriate. Is that a fair comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 666392,
      "EditedText": "We do advocate a precautionary principle, but I will let Bill answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 666393,
      "EditedText": "That is all the more reason why Government should take over."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 666396,
      "EditedText": "I want to go back to Des McNulty's question about health being made a material planning consideration for telecommunications. Is COSLA concerned that if we did that for telecommunications, there might be a lot of other areas of land use and practice where health would become a consideration? Are we opening up a major issue, or can telecommunications be treated in isolation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 666399,
      "EditedText": "I have not dealt with a great many masts in urban areas. In the Highlands, those we have dealt with have tended to be in open countryside. The issues are orthodox: the visual impact, the impact on the landscape, whether access can be gained to the site, whether the site needs separate access and whether power can be supplied to the site. In urban areas, controversy has usually been caused by a combination of the appearance of the mast—which inevitably is very utilitarian, although that is slowly improving in some cases—and whether there is a health issue. Are any families living in accommodation close by being affected?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 666400,
      "EditedText": "Another area that merits a bit more discussion is the distinction between what is covered by planning legislation and what is covered by licensing. Will you say a bit more about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 666404,
      "EditedText": "So there is a clear complaints procedure as far as local authorities are concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 666406,
      "EditedText": "If we had the system that is referred to in your document, who would arbitrate? Who would be the decision maker? How would it fit with the planning appeals procedure that was mentioned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 666407,
      "EditedText": "As is the case in other spheres, I imagine that the answers to those questions easily could be set out in guidance. A distinction could be made in any guidance between what the planning system and the other regulations that are involved could do, and if people are dissatisfied for any reason they can go either to an ombudsman or to the particular Government department that regulates telecommunications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 666417,
      "EditedText": "Would that not be brought into the planning system by requiring them to make a planning application?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Dinsdale: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 666422,
      "EditedText": "That comes back again to what is considered a safe distance for masts to be located from buildings."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C666425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 666425,
      "EditedText": "You have already touched on my next question. How do you see the planning and development of telecommunications infrastructure fitting in with the concept of community planning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666428",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 666430,
      "EditedText": "I welcome members to the resumed meeting of the Transport and the Environment Committee. There are certain areas from our discussion earlier this morning that we wish to follow up in writing with COSLA. Councillor David Hamilton indicated that there would be no problem with that, which we welcome. This next part of the meeting will be difficult, because of the number of witnesses. None the less, we would like to get some more detail about the issues that we are investigating, particularly from an individual local authority perspective. I formally invite David Banford, Alan Henderson, Brian Kelly and Bill Hepburn to participate in this session—other inputs would also be welcome. I want the witnesses to focus on how individual local authorities deal with the issues. I begin by asking how local authorities' precautionary policies on the siting of telecommunications developments relate to councils' role as the planning authority. That issue has been raised on a number of occasions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C666431",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly (Glasgow City Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 666431,
      "EditedText": "The position in Glasgow is best described as bitty—it is all over the place because different committees consider the issue. I know that this committee's main concern today is planning, but other issues arise in our economic and physical regeneration committee—a difficult one to remember. Other issues also arise on the planning and development control front and in environmental services, where I report back on our findings. Although I say that the policy is bitty, it is, nevertheless, developing. We have not yet got a document that we can refer to and say, \"This is Glasgow's position.\" The policy affects, and surfaces in, the areas of different committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 666437,
      "EditedText": "Personally, I have always regarded it as a low blow when that matter comes up in the media. Clearly, the council is not placing masts on its property with the intention of gaining income. The fact that we get income for it is another issue; it is not a matter that I ever bring before committee or on which I have been questioned. From the perspective of public health, the advice that I have offered has been taken. In my council, as far as I am aware, there has never been a question that income is a motive—quite the contrary. That has been said in the press but, as I said, such a claim is a low blow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666440",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 666440,
      "EditedText": "To try to help you, I can tell you that I have seen written evidence that the figure for Glasgow is in excess of £500,000 per annum. I have compiled the data and seen the figure in reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C666441",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 666441,
      "EditedText": "Is there a methodology for how charges are levied? Should there be?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666443",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 666443,
      "EditedText": "Would other council representatives care to comment on how they have derived their respective charges?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 666453,
      "EditedText": "Yes, you are entitled to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 666457,
      "EditedText": "However, if the council has an interest, as it is the owner of the property, is the process just the same?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 666459,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about what the current framework does and does not achieve, in addressing the needs of telecommunications development. How does that advice come to sit with you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 666466,
      "EditedText": "I am not a planner, so I could not add to what has been said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666471",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 666471,
      "EditedText": "Dialogue is important and does take place. In the absence of national planning guidelines, the Lothian structure plan includes a policy that sets out the sorts of issues that we expect operators to address. One of those is the fact that they must consider alternative locations and demonstrate the operational reasons for choosing a particular location. Applications in conservation areas are subject to the non-statutory development control guidelines on telecommunication masts—such guidelines exist on a number of issues. The guidelines include a list of points that we expect operators to consider—for example, the need to negotiate with owners of buildings of less architectural significance if we are concerned about the impact of the equipment on a particular building. Operators would need to consider other locations where the infrastructure could be more easily camouflaged and have less of an impact. Although dialogue is important, it is equally important to set out the ground rules and expectations in advance."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666472",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 666472,
      "EditedText": "First, I want to pursue the issue of conservation areas, where you have changed the scope of the planning system. Has that had a significant effect on telecommunications development in those areas?Secondly, what are your performance criteria for processing such applications? Are they processed in the same way as other applications, or is the process slower? Telecommunications is an interesting area, because it is a living example of full planning powers."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666478",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 666478,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for clarifying that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 666480,
      "EditedText": "Generally, that is fair comment. An important element of the prior approval system is that development remains permitted development, so that the planning authority is starting on its back foot in trying to improve environmental standards. My experience of the prior approval system for agricultural and forestry buildings is that our powers are restricted by development orders. The range of considerations that we can apply is restricted because the legislation says that those structures effectively have outline approval. We are not allowed to challenge the principle of erection of an agricultural building; all that we can do is consider its siting and appearance. With that system our powers are limited by statute. With the planning application system, however, we have a greater ability to seek environmental quality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 666482,
      "EditedText": "I have still to see the Executive's published proposal. If that is constructed in a similar vein, I would expect there still to be a restriction on planning authorities' ability to deal effectively with the environmental consequences of telecommunications proposals. One system is inherently restrictive to planning authorities and the other is not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 666483,
      "EditedText": "I have questions about the Executive's proposals for telecommunications developments. Can you describe the Executive proposal and what it entails?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 666491,
      "EditedText": "Is the timing for consideration of applications an issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 666494,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult for me to answer that properly. I have no real information about the situation south of the border, although I believe that the evidence given last week by the Royal Town Planning Institute in Scotland touched upon the English and Welsh experience.On the subject of publicity, I had—in one of my former bailiwicks—personal experience of someone complaining about a proposal. I said to that complainant that the proposal had been advertised and that she should have responded. Her response was that she did not read the papers, which I found remarkable. Neighbour notification would have solved that problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 666496,
      "EditedText": "I agree with all of that. It would be pertinent for us to ask—perhaps through local authorities in England—what the experience south of the border has been. Written evidence would do but, as fears have been aroused, it would be responsible of us to find out about those authorities' experience."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 666499,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, does the prior approval system save no resources?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 666500,
      "EditedText": "There is no saving of resources at all—it makes the situation worse, because we get less money for doing the same work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 666501,
      "EditedText": "You said that there is a charge of £33 or £35 per application. Is there no provision within the legislation to vary that charge? Given that the applications are from commercial operators—which, in this case, are making applications to install masts on a commercial basis—that expect to make a profit, might there be some argument for higher charges, particularly if authorities have to undertake additional checks or gather additional information?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 666504,
      "EditedText": "There must be a difference, as the two concepts are different. With the planning approval system, our ability to influence the outcome is fairly wide. The concept of the prior approval system is that a development that is a permitted development should remain so, unless special considerations apply. The existing prior approval provisions are, to some extent, inherently more restrictive than the planning system, which is open and is a much more transparent and accountable system. Transparency and involvement by the public must be given some weight and significance, and the other systems lack that transparency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 666505,
      "EditedText": "Some local authorities have said that there is apparent reluctance of operators to agree on mast sharing. The Highland Council suggested that prior approval agreements might be problematic in that way. Would a different planning framework help?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 666507,
      "EditedText": "I have a question on charging, although I do not expect a snap answer now. Based on the experience of the different authorities, would it be possible for COSLA to make an assessment of the administrative costs of going through the planning process, such as the costs of investigation and adjudication? It seems probable that even the existing requirements for going through the planning process—which are limited—cost more for the authority to fulfil than the charge that it is allowed to make. If there is a proposal to extend planning requirements to take in a higher number of applications, we should measure the costs that local authorities will incur and argue for a charging system that at least reflects those costs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 666510,
      "EditedText": "The current prior notification systems do not allow for neighbour notification, but that is laid down in statute. If the Executive wanted to introduce it as part of the system, it could do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 666514,
      "EditedText": "I mentioned the structure plan and the guidelines that we operate in Edinburgh. Those, and similar documents produced by other local authorities, are written in the form of guidelines and will not be overtaken by advances in technology. They cover the issues that planning authorities should consider when dealing with an application and the relative weight that should be given to individual considerations. Because they are not concerned with advance identification of specific sites, they can be adapted to take account of changes in technology."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 666515,
      "EditedText": "What are the major advantages and disadvantages of prior approval and full planning control and what are the main differences in the effectiveness of the two approaches? Furthermore, can you summarise the lessons that we can learn from the English and Welsh experience?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 666516,
      "EditedText": "The planning application system has the advantages of procedural simplicity, transparency and accountability. The other system lacks those qualities because of the way it is constructed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 666521,
      "EditedText": "That would be an advantage to be gained from following the planning application route."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 666523,
      "EditedText": "The City of Edinburgh Council has dealt with satellite dishes for televisions and has given temporary consent for those in particular situations, knowing that cabling was being introduced. That is a similar approach that has worked in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 666525,
      "EditedText": "The policy structure plan that is about to be approved by the Executive has been provided for the committee. It says that\"the Council supports and encourages the development of telecommunications facilities and services which assist the local economy or support local communities. Telecommunications developments should be sited, designed and developed in a manner which minimises impact on the environment, by taking into account:— impact on landscape and environmental interests including Conservation Areas, Listed Buildings and Archaeological Sites;shared use of existing or proposed telecommunication facilities;siting radio antennae or other apparatus on existing buildings or structures, andthe availability of alternative sites, taking account of technical and operational considerations.\"Those are the considerations that we have written into policy and which we anticipate being approved by the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 666526,
      "EditedText": "In Edinburgh, we are part of the Lothian structure plan, which covers a range of urban and rural authorities. Our policy is designed to minimise environmental impact. It requires information about the operators' requirements, the possibility of alternative locations and environmental factors. However, the key to applying such a policy is that different weight can be given to each of the factors—that is where national planning guidance would be helpful, to allow consistency between local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 666527,
      "EditedText": "I remind members that I am not a planner, however I submitted to COSLA a document on planning policy, which outlined the factors that Glasgow City Council takes into account: visual amenity, access and design. We go on to point out that planning legislation has never had to, and never should have to, consider health and safety issues. I suspect that you will return to that issue soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 666532,
      "EditedText": "I will start off, and let my colleagues join in if they want to.In my mind and in the minds of the public, additions to existing masts, such as extra microwave dishes, small radio housings in established base stations and additional antennae, have an inconsequential impact on development. One of the silly aspects of the present system is that if you have 10 microwave antennae on an existing mast, you need planning permission for the 11th one. That is a nonsense, because a structure that is big enough to take 10 antennae is fairly sizeable anyway. There is a level of development, from the microcell to the relatively small-scale permitted developments as they are presently framed, that is inconsequential and can continue to be de minimis and permitted development, irrespective of where the health issue takes us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 666533,
      "EditedText": "Do the rest of the witnesses agree with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 666534,
      "EditedText": "May I make an observation? I was concerned by an earlier comment. There are benefits when different operators share masts, but a question arises from that: who polices mast sharing? Licensing was talked about as a policing measure. However, someone has to measure emissions when new pieces of equipment are added to an existing mast. In addition, a threshold for emissions has to be defined. If that threshold is exceeded, do you take away the 11th installation, or the ninth, or the eighth?Although I see the benefit of putting additional pieces of equipment on the same mast, the matter is complex. The policing issue—for example, what you measure and what you do if you find the wrong results—becomes a problem further down the line."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 666535,
      "EditedText": "We will touch on measurements and the issues that you raised, Brian. Microcells will be part of the third phase roll-out. What is your experience of the use of microcells in the urban environment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 666538,
      "EditedText": "This might be a bit of a daft lassie question, but if someone receives planning permission for a big mast, does that imply permission for 20 or 30 little bits of related equipment scattered round it? Is that a sensible option to consider or is it a silly idea?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ContributionID": 666543,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 525.0,
      "ContributionID": 666545,
      "EditedText": "To answer that in a wider context, health is already a material planning consideration for a wide range of planning applications. A planning officer ordinarily will not have a health qualification, so the system requires a consultation to be issued to an appropriate body, typically the HSE, for specific technical advice. That comes back to the planning authority and is put into the balance along with all the other considerations. The concept of health as a material consideration is already established. Bill made the point that there has been at least one if not more court cases in England that have confirmed that, in terms of telecoms developments, health is a material consideration.The problem arises because we do not have good advice. Not to be disparaging in any way to your other witnesses—for example, the NRPB—but there is no good advice or clear information one way or the other about the weight that an authority should give to the health issue. As a result, an authority is unable to attach any weight to the health issue. So, yes, it is a material consideration, but unfortunately we are unable to address it because of an absence of evidence. That is for another party to address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 666546,
      "EditedText": "The HSE is approached when installations involve hazardous substances. When local authorities receive planning applications within that area of activity, they will consult HSE. It operates a system of zones around the installation and knows what sort of development it would accept within those zones. That has the advantage that the local authority does not have to come to a judgment on the significance of health-related information, as a qualified organisation is doing so, and will tell the local authority what the implications are for land uses. If that were to apply in this situation, as David Banford said, it would be one more factor that we would take into account and it would be based on an organisation's expertise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 666547,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that it would cause more problems than it would solve in the current climate. If the planning authority were to ask the HSE or NRPB, the information that it would get back might be unhelpful. I do not think that anyone would dispute that.If we ask our environmental health colleagues and they in turn ask the local health board for an opinion, that raises the question about who in the health board should respond. Do we ask a cancer specialist or a public health generalist? The committee had evidence from Dr Helene Irvine, who may give a different view from a cancer specialist. How does an authority know which advice it should take?That places a burden on the local health authority. I do not think that Greater Glasgow Health Board could cope. It would be asking a lot to get an opinion on this type of development and also landfills and other matters. Local authorities would increasingly turn to health boards for that type of advice. They might not like the advice that they get back and they might not get it in the time scale in which they expect it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 666552,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying, then, that national guidelines are required?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 542.0,
      "ContributionID": 666553,
      "EditedText": "That is the point that Bill Hepburn emphasised earlier. This is an issue that must be addressed at national level by the Executive. That is where the guidance should come from."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 544.0,
      "ContributionID": 666554,
      "EditedText": "My confusion is that other people have said in their submissions that health should be a material planning consideration. Are you saying that it is one already, but it is not implemented?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ContributionID": 666556,
      "EditedText": "This is a revisiting of the questions which I asked earlier that David Hamilton wanted me to direct at Edinburgh and Glasgow.We are into a further round of consultation. The Scottish Executive has said that, in principle, it is willing to introduce a precautionary principle and to introduce cordons sanitaires. How do local authorities think that should operate? How would you identify and define cordons sanitaires? How do you think they could be defended? How would you treat different buildings and uses? Would you establish an overall cordon sanitaire, or would you apply different standards to residential and other types of property? In practice, how effective would a cordon sanitaire approach be? What practical difficulties could there be? For example, how would you deal with the point that I raised earlier about subsequent planning applications within the cordon sanitaire or a change of use application, which might affect where you would draw the boundary of the cordon sanitaire?I am suggesting that the Scottish Executive might not drop from on high a set of guidelines, which you could then happily implement. It might ask you to specify what you would like the guidelines to be and ask you to justify that. What advice would you give in those circumstances?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 552.0,
      "ContributionID": 666558,
      "EditedText": "So is that a pass?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 554.0,
      "ContributionID": 666559,
      "EditedText": "A kind of pass."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 558.0,
      "ContributionID": 666561,
      "EditedText": "I can only echo what has been said: it would be virtually impossible for a planning authority to make sense of that requirement unless there were clear technical guidelines. Those do not exist at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 568.0,
      "ContributionID": 666566,
      "EditedText": "The difficulties that we will have in a number of aspects of our report are shown clearly.To take a step forward and assume that the Executive—for whatever reason and in whatever way—should provide guidelines that the local authorities could enforce, it is likely that there will be installations that would not have been granted planning permission had it been a requirement. How could the planning process attack those issues? I am not sure whether there are precedents for reassessing and cancelling the planning consent of something that later comes under a new framework. How would that work in practice? It would be helpful if you would outline the difficulties that would be involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 666568,
      "EditedText": "Planning consents can be revoked but compensation must be paid—that consideration usually ends the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 666575,
      "EditedText": "If that were the policy environment, there are already instruments in the Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997 that allow permissions to be revoked. In the real world, the vast majority of sites do not have planning permissions granted by the council; they have been granted through development orders by Parliament. The prickly issue of compensation would certainly be raised if operators were forced to leave sites and establish new ones.I do not think that parliamentary draftsmen would find it difficult to create the words to make that happen, but the industry would certainly expect compensation. It would be unfair for the requirement to pay compensation to fall on the doorstep of individual planning authorities if it resulted from an Executive initiative. Government would have to be prepared to underwrite such a move."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 605.0,
      "ContributionID": 666584,
      "EditedText": "I just want to mention something that was thrown up by the industry representatives. They felt that their environmental requirements were effectively being met through their licensing obligations. I wonder whether, as planners, you feel that that is genuinely the case. How do you feel about the fact that the telecommunications licensing system effectively regulates environmental considerations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 607.0,
      "ContributionID": 666585,
      "EditedText": "The licensing system's ability to police sites is shrouded in quite a fog. At my level, as a development control practitioner, it is difficult to see its effect in practice. We still find situations in which structures arrive on site causing great public upset and the operator does not seem terribly bothered about it. To the operator, a new site means new customers, so it must be good.It is difficult for me or for the public to see any enforcement of the licensing system in operation. I do not know who would be able to enforce it—someone from the Department of Trade and Industry, I suppose. However, I have no knowledge of its ever happening in practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 609.0,
      "ContributionID": 666586,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 611.0,
      "ContributionID": 666587,
      "EditedText": "I read the evidence of the industry. Nick Greer of Vodafone expressed the view that planning permission would not enable planning authorities to do a better job. I thoroughly disagree with that view and I am sure that, were he to consider the position carefully, he would do so too, because he has accepted that the prior notification procedure is an improvement.The licence clearly does not take in all the material considerations that a community might have. It sets parameters for an operator, which he must meet under the terms of that licence, and I do not doubt the spirit in which the operators are trying to do that, and I have no complaints about their work, particularly in the Highlands. However, I believe that a proper planning appraisal system would improve matters on the ground."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 621.0,
      "ContributionID": 666592,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:52."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 666289,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the public meeting at 09:35"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andy Kerr): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 666290,
      "EditedText": "I welcome everybody to the eighth meeting of the Transport and the Environment Committee. My name is Andy Kerr, and I am the chair of the committee. We have, around the chamber, a variety of MSPs whose names, I hope, are visible to the witnesses. We will try to keep the committee meeting as informal as possible, and I warmly welcome the witnesses, any members of the press and the public. This is the first time that this committee has met in the parliamentary chamber. We will see how we find it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 666293,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, David. I was impressed with the seminar that COSLA held last week, which some committee members managed to attend. That was useful and well timed by COSLA in relation to the work that is going on elsewhere. You have obviously done a lot of work on this issue. Has COSLA issued formal advice to planning authorities with regard to telecoms?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 666298,
      "EditedText": "The existing system is twofold. Operators operate under their licence from the Telecommunications Act 1984, so each operator has his own individual licence. Planning controls relate to whether there is a need for planning permission and whether it comes within class 67 of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (Scotland) Order 1997. Class 67 has been widely drawn. It gives operators a lot of opportunity to erect structures, as Councillor Hamilton said, up to 15 m in height, with associated base equipment and without planning permission.I noticed an anomaly in some of the evidence given by the operators to the committee. Vodafone said that planning authorities could take enforcement action against operators that did not construct their apparatus in accordance with their licence. I think it is strange that planning authorities have to read an operator's licence and decide whether they can take action against them outwith planning legislation.As you can judge by the evidence given to the committee, it is common ground among the Scottish Executive and others—and is accepted by the operators—that the present system is inadequate and must be changed. There are inconsistencies and difficulties in interpretation. Permitted development is too wide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 666307,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify what the time constraints are on a full planning application? You said that if one overruns a full planning application, there is a deemed refusal. Is that the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 666309,
      "EditedText": "What is the time frame for a full planning application?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 666316,
      "EditedText": "We have not come to any conclusion. Part of the process, as you will know from the conference last week, is to come here and answer questions. The other part is that we will discuss and analyse the latest results. We consulted local authorities so that we could get the maximum amount of information for today's meeting. We will come to a conclusion soon. We can respond to your question in writing once we have done so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 666319,
      "EditedText": "Yes. One of the issues that came up at last week's conference was the type of masts that are being developed and how they work. Rather unfairly, I think, one of the companies that was there was asked a number of direct questions on the matter. The question of why there is no multi-use of masts was asked a lot. Because of competition between the companies, there are many masts in small areas where one would have done.We saw drawings and diagrams of how masts might change. One mast was on a tree. Things are changing rapidly, but the fundamental issue is that there is no agreement between the companies to utilise effectively the resources that they have. There is a concern that the number of masts will increase. There are 2,000 masts in Scotland and 20 more are erected every month. If phase 3 comes in, the number of masts will increase substantially. Unless we can achieve some sort of cohesion across the country, we are in for a difficult time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 666320,
      "EditedText": "You use the word height in your submission. Are your authorities giving you feedback on other areas that you might want to include under the heading of sensitive? If there is no information, that is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Dinsdale: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 666321,
      "EditedText": "I can look through the submissions again and provide further information if some is available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 666322,
      "EditedText": "We will probably come to it later, but Bill Hepburn mentioned national scenic areas. Can you conceive of circumstances in which COSLA's policy position would be that there should be no siting of masts in sites of special scientific interest or any other nature conservation designations and you would therefore press the Scottish Executive to give the same advice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 666323,
      "EditedText": "That would be most unlikely. The difficulty with sensitivity is that it tends to be focused on one particular aspect of one particular site. If the site is in an urban area where there is a collection of fine buildings, the issue might be one of conservation. If it is a rural area, it could be a landscape issue, an SSSI, or closeness to rural housing. It is unlikely that there would be much objection to the siting of masts in many SSSIs in the Highlands, because the impact on the nature conservation interest might be relatively slight. There might be huge landscape or other issues, but that is variable.The issue cannot easily be tackled just by designating sensitive areas here and there; contentious things will always happen outside sensitive areas. Things are easier to control, however, if a planning application is required for all major telecommunications apparatus. In the determination of that application, sensitivity can be taken into account as a material consideration in a number of ways."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C666324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 666324,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pursue those points. First, if we were to view health as a material consideration, are there any particular groups of individuals that we should classify for some form of additional protection within whatever regulatory system is brought in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C666326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 666326,
      "EditedText": "I am assuming that, to some extent, what you are saying is that it is about facts and circumstances. Is that a fair comment?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C666328",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 666328,
      "EditedText": "My next point relates to what you said earlier about environment and landscape. We could take the view that some geographic or topographical areas should have some form of criteria for protection. Do you think that that should be the case? If so, what would be the definition and what would be the level of treatment within the policy planning system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 666329,
      "EditedText": "That is quite a big question, which refers not just to telecommunications. We already have a system of landscape environmental designations—national scenic areas, sites of special scientific interest and so on—which are for different things. The argument could be made that any further controls could be helpful. My view is that it is not that simple in practice. A non-designated area on the edge of a town can be much more sensitive than a site within a national scenic area, because of its particular circumstances. It would not be an easy way forward simply to designate sites all over the place—for example, using article 4 directions, which the planning authority is empowered to do. Those directions have their own problems, because operators can feasibly seek compensation for development that would otherwise have been permitted. It is a clumsy, piecemeal approach. It would be better to go back to first principles and ask which developments deserve planning permission and then feed in one's sensitivities, based on the merits of the site."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666330",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 666330,
      "EditedText": "I am not quite sure about the balance. You talked about health being a consideration but not as something that might determine a decision. I am not sure where that fits with the balance of material matters and environmental sensitivity that you were talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666333",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 666333,
      "EditedText": "On Des McNulty's first question, on the extent of technological changes, on what might become a higher-level risk and on the influence of planning, I think that I can refer back to my previous answer: without firm guidance from those who are statutory advisers to the Government, including the National Radiological Protection Board and the Health and Safety Executive, planning authorities cannot, in my view, be expected to make decisions themselves about the level of risk. I now come to Des's second question. Once permission is granted, inertia sets in. Replacements of masts of the same height or additional apparatus on a mast installation do not usually require planning permission, or at least they are at the lower end of permitted development and are not considered significant—in Highland, we would not normally contest such replacements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 666337,
      "EditedText": "To follow up Kenny MacAskill's point about a national plan, the logic of Councillor Hamilton's points is that health considerations have to be at the centre. There are such big implications that much research and careful thinking are required. COSLA and the local authorities would be looking for advice from the centre, in other words, from the Executive. They would argue that local government bodies are too small to make such decisions on the health implications of planning applications because of the shortage of resources that has just been described."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 666338,
      "EditedText": "There are 32 local authorities. I do not know how many thousands of councillors and officers that represents. Within those 32 local authorities, groupings will determine how they deal with their issues. The responses that we received, to which Mary Dinsdale referred, showed the diversity of opinion, although the vast majority were of one mind about planning applications.I am sure that, in Edinburgh and Glasgow, there has been far more detailed debate on health and safety issues than in Midlothian, Clackmannan or the Highlands and Islands, as those local authorities have neither the number of officers that we have to support us—and it should be remembered that councillors are, by and large, part-timers—nor the level of expertise that exists within our divisions. I mean no disrespect to the smaller councils, but they cannot afford that level of expertise. I imagine—although I cannot be sure—that major authorities such as Glasgow City Council, City of Edinburgh Council and Dundee City Council might have more available resources to get hold of that information. That is a personal opinion, but I believe that it would reflect that of the politicians and COSLA. We hope that the Scottish Government, along with the national Government, will consider the best way in which to deal with that situation. We can contribute to the debate, but I do not think that that responsibility should be with local government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 666340,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that there will be a two-tier structure. City of Edinburgh Council and Glasgow City Council might disagree. They receive advice and deal with it in the way that is deemed appropriate for each authority. Although they are large authorities, they might disagree on the best way to proceed. A much bigger debate must take place, which we will take part in. That is the way in which the matter must be dealt with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 666344,
      "EditedText": "Another, more general, issue is connected with that. If you want to take community planning forward—I know that COSLA is particularly interested in it—you might need to consider community planning not in the context of planning legislation alone, but in combination with other forms of legislation. A community planning framework might involve a comprehensive, joined-up look at a whole series of issues that impact on a locality. This issue might fit into that framework."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 666346,
      "EditedText": "I have some detailed questions, but I would like to pursue the big issue of precautionary principles. We interviewed the National Radiological Protection Board a couple of weeks ago. Its judgment was that it could detect no health issues, but that it was happy that Government should tell it that a precautionary principle was none the less justified.This morning, Bill Hepburn has also said that he does not see a role for planning because it is a health issue on which there is no evidence. However, in COSLA's written submission, it said that until such time as conclusive evidence was available—which might be never—it wanted to adopt the precautionary principle. How does COSLA justify that if it does not feel that the issue is relevant in planning terms? Are you simply saying that you know that there is a risk, that you would be grateful if the Government took the decision for you, and that you would implement it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 666350,
      "EditedText": "If we agree that we are considering the principle of taking a precautionary approach on the siting of major telecommunications apparatus, and bearing in mind the fact that you do not want full planning control over the more minor installations, do you feel that the same precautionary approach ought to apply to the siting of the lesser fixed telecommunications equipment—such as micromasts and cells—as applies for major apparatus?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 666351,
      "EditedText": "I am no health expert. Again, I cannot alight on a linear or vertical distance that would be safe in the circumstances. From what has been said on health, and from what I have read in the literature, it is my interpretation that the health effects are probably quite localised.However, it is impossible for local authorities to take their own clear, conclusive, individual views on that. In those circumstances, it is for the Government to take the lead and to give local authorities and the industry guidance on the level of precaution that is justified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 666353,
      "EditedText": "I want to move on to the way in which the precautionary principle might operate. It is all very well to ask for guidance, but the implementation of a planning policy on a local basis would require definitions and operational standards to tackle the issue of proximity. In asking the Scottish Executive for national guidelines, how would COSLA want the definition of closeness to be established? What role should the local authority have in such decisions, and to what extent would other bodies, such as health boards and the national advice agencies, feed into that process? If we wanted to build in any degree of local consideration and influence, surely there would be a problem in seeking the consistency across the country that David Hamilton has just mentioned.I do not think that COSLA can dissociate itself from the issues of definition, even if there were central guidance, because there are implementation and operational considerations. How do you see that working?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 666360,
      "EditedText": "I can see the problem. My answer returns to David's earlier answer. COSLA is an association of 32 local authorities that have neither the detailed expertise nor the time required to tackle the issue. As COSLA has only recently held its seminar on the issues, perhaps there has not been time to put any meat on them. In practice, given the existing spread of the telecommunications industry in rural and urban areas, it is a difficult issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 666362,
      "EditedText": "I will answer the first part, and Bill Hepburn can address the detailed point. The responses that we have received show that some authorities have taken a precautionary approach where sites for masts are close to buildings. Those authorities are reviewing that position as research and opinion develop. Some authorities took a decision early on, but are now reviewing their position and taking different decisions on new structures. A local authority might determine that it will not build on its own premises, but a mast can be sited on private land across the road. We have to deal with that problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 666365,
      "EditedText": "I do not understand why national guidance would eliminate coverage in certain parts of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 666366,
      "EditedText": "If there were a national plan that had a presumption against development in certain areas, such as sites of special scientific interest, tracts of the country would be ruled out from coverage and people in those areas would not have facilities to use mobile phones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 666367,
      "EditedText": "BBC masts cover the whole of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 666373,
      "EditedText": "Time is limited, so I ask members to keep their questions as short as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 666378,
      "EditedText": "If health were to be a consideration, would it be unusual for the councillors making a judgment or the planning officers advising them to have relevant expertise in health?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 666386,
      "EditedText": "In your submission, you suggest that adequate publicity and consultation is required. Who should generate that information, who should be consulted and how might you determine what would constitute an adequate level?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 666388,
      "EditedText": "On any planning committee, there are several key people, one of whom is the representative of the legal department. He sits and does not say much during the process but kicks in when the committee decides to go against a planning application and informs us what would happen if we did so.The local planning area structure plans that we are involved in are extremely helpful for all the planning authorities. The City of Edinburgh Council, West Lothian Council, East Lothian Council and Midlothian Council are working to our structure plan. We then work within our local plans. We try to work cohesively throughout the area—Edinburgh can have an opinion on what happens in Midlothian and so on. If a local authority decided not to agree to the siting of certain masts, it would be told by the legal department that doing so without an expert legal opinion on the matter might result in the authority being taken to court.There are concerns about many issues. Therefore, the quicker that we can get to a position where we can develop a comprehensible strategy, the better it will be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 666390,
      "EditedText": "Our submission makes our opinion clear. Certain factors—the visibility of masts and so on—are measurable. The difficulty starts when we consider health aspects. Research is still on-going in that area and the position is different now from the situation a year ago.On the planning issue, not the health and safety part, a judgment should be made that we treat like with like, depending on what authority we are dealing with. An area relating to that can be seen to be cohesive throughout Scotland, health and safety notwithstanding.We will give a written submission detailing how each of the authorities are dealing with the health and safety issue. However, the fact that we are dealing with 32 local authorities means that different opinions will be expressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 666395,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The Government in association with the statutory agencies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 666397,
      "EditedText": "Health issues are material considerations if there is evidence that they should be. My view, as I have said this morning, is that there is uncertainty. No conclusions have been drawn and none may be for some time. In those circumstances, rather than letting individual planning authorities reach separate judgments about how much weight health should be given, it would be helpful for local authorities—and perhaps for industry, although I cannot speak for it—if Government stepped in to give an overview of whether and to what extent a precautionary principle should apply."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 666401,
      "EditedText": "Licences under the Telecommunications Act 1984 for individual operators are very large—as big as several telephone books. They cover a number of operating factors that have nothing to do with planning permission or control, although all of them put some onus on the operator to respect the environment and to seek to minimise the impact of their installations. It is a dual system, which the Government presumably will insist continues to operate, and which will operate as we enter the third wave of telecommunications that we all expect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 666402,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the need for a clear complaints procedure. It would be useful if you would expand on that. What would it involve? How would the procedure work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 666403,
      "EditedText": "My view is that there are two levels of complaints: complaints about the way in which a planning situation has been dealt with and complaints about the appearance of apparatus on the ground. There are tried-and-tested methods of dealing with the matter. That can involve going through a system of planning permission, for example, prior notification if it is introduced, and if people are not satisfied with it, they have recourse to the courts or to a local government ombudsman.I am not qualified to speak on the other method, which concerns the licensing side of things and whether an operator is fulfilling all the terms of its licence. I am not aware if there is a telecommunications ombudsman who might deal with that issue, but I am sure that there must be some procedure in the licensing regime by which the matter may be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 666405,
      "EditedText": "Yes. If you look at it across the board, local authorities have a wider interest than just that of a planning authority. They may have an interest as a land owner, as protective environmental health authorities, or a number of different interests, which mean that they may wish to take action against operators, not through the planning system but through the licence itself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 666411,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 3(b) of your submission states:\"The extent of local authorities' control must be defined, eg what control authorities have in the event of an operator ignoring advice; also, the responsibilities of other agencies who have control of non land use aspects, such as the role of the NRPB and House . . . and of telecommunications companies themselves.\"What is your view on the appropriate extent of control by local authorities? What are your views on the responsibilities of the other agencies that were mentioned, and how they would fit into the whole process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 666412,
      "EditedText": "With regard to the first part of your question, our view on what should be the extent of control is simple: there should be planning permission for major structures. That would bring into line a lot of the issues regarding telecommunications and would let them be dealt with in a normal way. The difficulty with the present system, and perhaps with the prior notification procedure, is the extent of local authorities' ability to control different aspects of development. Almost by definition, a prior notification procedure makes the assumption, \"This is really permitted development. It must be approved, unless there is some out-of-the-way reason that the authority has to take into account.\" Whatever happens, Government has to provide clear definitions in the new guidance. It is a possibility that if they bring larger telecommunications developments into planning control, they can define the main materialities that were mentioned earlier this morning and define what should be taken into account by local authorities and what may, in some circumstances, receive less weight."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 666413,
      "EditedText": "Will you expand on how the NRPB and HSE feed into that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 666418,
      "EditedText": "It would only be brought in to the extent that if there was any doubt about an installation, we would ask to be assured that the installation complied with all relevant HSE guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 666419,
      "EditedText": "Would that happen under prior notification as well?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C666421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 666421,
      "EditedText": "What guidance do you think the NRPB should issue to take a sufficiently precautionary approach. We have heard a lot over the past few weeks about where local authorities are at the moment. What specific advice should be given?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 666424,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful to have national guidance. That would be consistent with the guidance on other planning factors. When a national planning policy guideline appears, it is usually accompanied by a planning advice note, which relates to good practice, and a circular on the degree of interpretation that the Scottish Executive thinks might be put on the NPPG. All three types of guidance could be appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford (Dumfries and Galloway Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 666433,
      "EditedText": "It is the same in Dumfries and Galloway—we have no set policy on the precautionary principles. This is a relatively new, evolving concept; it is clear from the evidence that the committee heard this morning, and from the debate at last week's conference, that there is a serious lack of evidence on which to base a tangible policy. The authorities look to Government for that guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 666444,
      "EditedText": "I am speaking from a planning viewpoint. I do not know the details of ownership and income."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C666445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 666445,
      "EditedText": "I would not like to see a Dutch auction in which, for example, Midlothian undercuts the City of Edinburgh and somebody sites a telecommunications mast 100 m from the boundary. From a planning perspective, could you see the advantage of a national tariff as opposed to a locally operated rate? If there is national planning, is a set tariff laid down, as may be the case for other installations on local authority property?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 666448,
      "EditedText": "This money must go into a black hole in the authority, as I have never heard of it before.Has any authority considered hypothecating income from the siting of a telecommunications mast for those elements in the community that might be immediately affected? For example, if the mast was put on the top of a tower block, the money might be used to improve the amenities within that tower block."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 666450,
      "EditedText": "That might be a mechanism for allowing people to make a decision for themselves about the cost benefits of an installation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 666452,
      "EditedText": "Am I allowed to speak in this part of the meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 666455,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the application process. Is it easier for local authorities to put masts on the roof of high-rise flats than it is for a private landowner? Is the process the same?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 666458,
      "EditedText": "If the council has an interest in the siting of the mast, a decision must be made whether the case is referrable to the Scottish ministers for approval."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 666460,
      "EditedText": "Could you clarify what you mean?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 666461,
      "EditedText": "I mean the current framework—the one that is operating now, the status quo provision of advice and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 666462,
      "EditedText": "The current system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 666465,
      "EditedText": "City of Edinburgh Council has experience of operating under three different procedures. First, the permitted development rights mean that we have little control and that fairly large installations can go ahead without people living nearby knowing anything about it. The public cannot believe that such large structures can be erected without people receiving neighbour notifications or being allowed to contribute to the process.Secondly, in conservation areas, we have to be notified of installations and we can say whether we think that they would adversely affect the character and appearance of the conservation area. Nevertheless, that is not a complete planning process—it is done outside the public arena and is not open to public scrutiny. That causes us concern.Thirdly, several conservation areas in the built-up areas of the city have article 4 directions—approved by the Scottish Office five years ago—which remove permitted development rights for several use classes, including the class that applies to telecommunications developments. In those areas, we have experience of operating a system in which the operators must submit a planning application. We have found that very helpful because it gets the community involved. We have also found that the operators respond positively to that approach—they know that we have put that direction in place in areas where the environment is particularly sensitive. They usually want to put their installations on top of tall buildings, which are often listed. They know that unless they address the concerns, they will not receive planning permission. They work with us to the extent of erecting mock-ups of the installations during the consultation period, to allow the public and amenity groups to see what the apparatus looks like. That experience has led the City of Edinburgh Council to believe that such powers should be applied to all proposals; we support COSLA's approach to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 666468,
      "EditedText": "My experience from the few cases that I have dealt with that required a planning application is that they complied with the terms of the permission. To date, I have had no cause for concern with any of the sites. Generally, the industry acts responsibly when planning permission is required for installations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 666470,
      "EditedText": "In my experience, if the planning authority finds a proposal unacceptable, one of its first responses will be to ask the operator to site the mast elsewhere. A dialogue begins, which is a fairly normal process. If something is wrong with any planning application, it is not usually rejected out of hand; a remedy is sought. With masts, that may mean investigating alternative sites. If agreement is reached, the outcome will be an alternative site. The process can also be reversed. It is quite common for applicants to engage in a dialogue before lodging an application. That is a beneficial process, as it allows the key points to be highlighted and discussed so that an effective solution can be agreed on before the application lands on the officer's desk. Dialogue is all-important. We would seek alternative sites if we felt that there was something wrong with the original proposal. Inevitably, there will be circumstances in which the operator says that the technicalities of the installation are such that it must go in a certain place. Those circumstances can be difficult to deal with, but they are part of our daily diet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 666473,
      "EditedText": "Edinburgh is traditionally the slowest authority in terms of the number of applications that it determines in two months—about half of all types of applications are determined in that period. That is because of the large number of conservation areas involved and the environmental issues that we have to deal with and consult the public on. Our experience is that telecommunications applications have not been handled any more slowly than those for other types of development. If telecommunications applications take longer than two months, that is because we are discussing a more acceptable alternative location with the applicants. The alternative is that the applicants get their decision quickly, but that that decision is a refusal. We find that they—like other developers and operators—would rather continue negotiation and discussion to find an acceptable solution. There is not a dramatic difference in performance in the way in which such proposals are dealt with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 666474,
      "EditedText": "Has that stopped the roll-out of any developments? Is Edinburgh an area in which mobile phones do not work? I suspect that that is not the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 666476,
      "EditedText": "I want to conclude an earlier answer. The Glasgow experience has been that many developments have been moved to alternative locations because of the pressure; equally, a number of applications have been withdrawn for the same reason.Further to the point that Alan Henderson just made, Glasgow development control committee's performance is monitored, as the performances of all such committees are. Our performance, too, is lower than expected; at the last time of checking, it stood at around 59 per cent, while the Accounts Commission expects us to deal with applications at a hit level of around 80 per cent. We are already under severe pressure. As you know, the committee in Glasgow meets weekly, so it is very resource intensive. If we took new issues such as this on board, the pressures would become worse and, in some respects, other applications would suffer. Indeed, all applications would suffer some sort of punishment and the performance might go down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 666481,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, there is a clear precedent in such cases. How does the prior approval system differ from the Executive's telecommunications proposals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 666489,
      "EditedText": "Are there issues about the complexity of the suggested process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 666492,
      "EditedText": "It is an issue for the prior notification system because if the authority is unable to respond by the deadlines—28 days and 42 days—the applicant has a deemed permission. On day 43, if the authority has not said yes or no, the operator may start to build. That imposes a serious target for the authority.There are two ways of dealing with that. The first is to ensure that the application is fully assessed and dealt with by that time—if that happens, that is all well and good. If, on the other hand, the authority thinks that there is still something wrong with the proposal but has not been able properly to examine and debate that, the remedy—simply to beat the deadline—is to issue a refusal. That is unhelpful to the development of not just the telecommunications industry. Developers prefer to be able to resolve an issue without the clock ticking against them. If, for example, 50 days are needed to successfully resolve a case, that is how long should be taken. That will produce a better result."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 666493,
      "EditedText": "In answering Robin Harper's first question, David referred to the English and Welsh experience. I would like him to expand on that. I would have guessed that even the amount of advertising that is required under prior approval would mean that there will be much greater awareness, more interest and more objections among people on whom the proposal might impact.Planning authorities might find that, because of the presumption in favour of the application, they must accept proposals that they would—If they had full planning powers—have relocated or redesigned. That would lead to public anger about the process and might bring the planning process into disrepute unfairly. I do not want to lead the witness, but is that a concern of your colleagues south of the border?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 666495,
      "EditedText": "Members of the public expect not to have to look for an advertisement; they expect to be notified of planning proposals at their home address. As David said, they complain if that does not happen. They also expect that they will be able to make a contribution to the process and that they and the local authority can influence the outcome. I am concerned that, with the prior approval approach, there will be so many limitations on what we can do that we will be unable to achieve an acceptable result in any area.It seems that the proposals have been written in an attempt to make the process efficient, but the effect has been the opposite. By introducing a new procedure that is different from the everyday procedure that we use in dealing with planning applications, we are putting into the system something that could cause difficulties, misunderstandings and delays."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 666502,
      "EditedText": "Fees are set by Government—it is the duty of the Executive to set planning fees. It would be possible to set a special fee for telecommunications—that is within the gift of the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 666503,
      "EditedText": "We are looking at the difference between planning applications and prior approval. Is there any difference in the discretion that local authorities have?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 666513,
      "EditedText": "Taking account of the fact that the pace of change in the telecommunications industry is very quick and that there are likely to be further changes, do you think that there is a danger that full planning control will lack the flexibility needed in future? For example, the NPPGs come out irregularly; structure plans cover 10 years and local plans cover five years, and it takes time to update such processes. Do you foresee any problems with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 666520,
      "EditedText": "It is possible to grant temporary permissions, if the circumstances warrant it. Dumfries and Galloway Council is looking forward to the approval of its replacement structure plan by the Executive—an early Christmas present, we hope. The telecommunications policy in that plan makes the point that we will consider granting temporary permission in appropriate circumstances, to take account of technology change. That is an option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 666524,
      "EditedText": "Would you outline your authorities' key policy issues for considering telecommunications developments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 666529,
      "EditedText": "My next question is wide and general, and you have answered it partly already, Mr Hepburn. What is the significance of the nature and range of the impact of telecommunications developments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 666530,
      "EditedText": "That is a wide question. As I said earlier, the planning system can deal only with more orthodox planning impacts, such as siting, design, external appearance, means of access and power supply—the tangible side of planning. We may need more guidance on the health issue, because it is less easy to deal with, in both the existing and the proposed systems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 666531,
      "EditedText": "With regard to amenities, what do you consider to be largely inconsequential? Could certain forms or sizes of developments be treated as permitted developments or as de minimis aspects of telecommunications developments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 666536,
      "EditedText": "I have to pass on that question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 666537,
      "EditedText": "Small-scale equipment in the urban landscape would continue to be permitted development. It would seem that the forthcoming generation of infrastructure and the microcell concept could rely on physically small equipment. If that is the case, then that type of installation could safely continue to be permitted development. In future, somebody has to write down the parameters for that. However, in giving evidence in support of planning control, it is important to remember that we are not talking in any absolute or global sense. The bigger structures should be subject to planning control, while the obviously minor structures can remain as permitted development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 666539,
      "EditedText": "The way that the microcell concept is developing means that there will be a base station of some significance somewhere while, scattered throughout the city or the countryside, depending on what the technology requires, would be very modest installations that would speak up the line to the big site. The big site should have planning permission. However, if the microcell infrastructure itself is on a very small scale—it is just connected by radio wave—it should not be a problem to continue to deal with the main mast on its own merits and allow the wider infrastructure to develop in support of the main site."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 666540,
      "EditedText": "Is there the option of controlling the proliferation of small sub-installations as part of the permission for the major one?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 523.0,
      "ContributionID": 666544,
      "EditedText": "In regard to health and the precautionary principle—I got Bill Hepburn's view on this earlier—should health be considered as a material planning consideration? What would be the reason for your answer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 666549,
      "EditedText": "What I was getting at was that none of the authorities would dare to attempt to introduce it."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C666555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "ContributionID": 666555,
      "EditedText": "Basically, yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C666562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 560.0,
      "ContributionID": 666562,
      "EditedText": "It is a difficult question. The planning system works by identifying special areas that have characteristics that need to be protected, and by weighing up conflicting objectives. It is a different approach to say that no activity should take place in certain areas, in which local conditions suggest that activity could take place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 562.0,
      "ContributionID": 666563,
      "EditedText": "Can I add further confusion to this? I understand that planning issues are involved, but there is a theory—I have not checked the science—that if masts are closer to one another, the signals will be weaker. If there is concern about the health impact of the strength of signals, it might be better to have more masts firing weaker signals between them. That might not be a good planning argument, but it might be a good health argument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 566.0,
      "ContributionID": 666565,
      "EditedText": "My answer was better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 574.0,
      "ContributionID": 666569,
      "EditedText": "In this case, the compensation would be the cost of identifying, seeking permission for and establishing facilities in a different location?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 666571,
      "EditedText": "In Glasgow, it has been pointed out that an authority wishing to go back on a contract might be in breach of that contract if it did not have the appropriate get-out arrangement. Contracts should be examined closely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 666572,
      "EditedText": "How would one extinguish a planning consent in the light of new guidelines? Would it require legal action? Is it difficult in practice? Can you give us some examples that would make the consequences of that option intelligible to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 666573,
      "EditedText": "An opening general principle is that it is most unusual for new legislation to act retrospectively. I think that you are suggesting that that is a possible scenario?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ContributionID": 666578,
      "EditedText": "Yes. In this case the applicant was willing to comply and did not even charge the council for all the costs involved. The cost would be substantial if that were repeated throughout the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 597.0,
      "ContributionID": 666580,
      "EditedText": "I understand the complex issues involved in revoking planning consent. However, as Brian Kelly said, there must be a number of cases in which new regulatory frameworks have been imposed on operators of all kinds of public utilities and private provisions. Those can be emissions-based regulations or location regulations. If that is the mechanism for dealing with out-of-compliance operators, there seems to be no basis for compensation. The onus of complying with standards rests with the operators, so the best method of dealing with problems may be licensing or enforcement, rather than revocation of planning consent. That also takes account of the fact that the majority of installations do not have planning consent anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 601.0,
      "ContributionID": 666582,
      "EditedText": "There are still two questions that I want to ask."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ContributionID": 666583,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that time is limited."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 619.0,
      "ContributionID": 666591,
      "EditedText": "There are no more questions from members of the committee. I therefore thank all the witnesses for putting up with us this morning. It is a difficult subject area for all of us, but the insights that you have given us into the practical, on-the-ground issues, as well as the policy issues, have been useful in our investigation of the matter. On behalf of the committee, I thank you most sincerely for your contributions. We will certainly be writing to you to clarify some of the matters that have arisen.That brings us to the end of the meeting. I thank members for their attendance, and I also thank the people in the public gallery for their interest in our proceedings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor David Hamilton (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 666292,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I do not know if it is just me, but I do not have my glasses on and I can barely see you, let alone read MSPs' name plates.I am convener of the development services forum, Mary Dinsdale is a policy officer and Bill Hepburn is the principal for development control for Highland Council, although he will be wearing his COSLA hat for the first part of the proceedings.We welcome the opportunity to provide further evidence to this committee on telecommunications development. COSLA held a seminar last week, which some members attended. That seminar covered the statutory framework of the installation of telecommunications masts, operation perspectives, how the cell sites work, related health and safety issues, the existing national guidelines, the case for a precautionary approach to cellphone technology and the councils' response to that.COSLA represents 32 local authorities, including those of the Highlands and Islands. It is a voluntary organisation, and is paid for by membership subscription. Every single council in Scotland is involved in COSLA. Several committees make up COSLA, and the 32 local authorities are represented on the major committees and task groups. In addition, there are various sub-committees which specialise according to what part of the country their members come from. For example, a number of councillors from the north of Scotland and some parts of the central belt take a specific interest in national parks. However, every single council is represented on the development services forum, which covers economic development, transportation and planning.We are involved in a substantial number of matters, and the debates that we have been having recently cover a number of issues that we believe must be addressed differently from what has hitherto been makeshift. At present, COSLA believes that there should be full planning control for telecommunications development. In the most recent survey of councils, 23 out of 30 responses indicated full planning control over the prior approval system.The procedures for full planning permission are easy to understand, and are used by everybody: the private sector, public bodies and members of the public. The precautionary approach has been adopted—50 per cent of councils have responded, and a number of them have been monitoring emission levels. That shows a clear need for guidance, to help councils assess health issues, which can be considered in the material consideration of the planning process.As a layman, it came home to me last week that the third generation licence coming into operation will potentially increase the number of masts threefold. That causes me some concern. In our opinion, it would be a reverse position to take, so we need clear guidance on this issue as soon as possible.I believe that the committee is taking evidence in two sessions. We will answer the overall questions. As I am a politician—as members will be aware, that is a jack of all trades and master of none—I have tried to ensure that within the panel we have people who will be able to respond to the concerns that the committee and local government have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C666297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 666297,
      "EditedText": "I think that you covered this in your preamble, but perhaps you could confirm, for the record, what the problems and deficiencies are in the existing system."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C666299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 666299,
      "EditedText": "The two options are prior approval and full planning control. We already know that you support full planning control. Why is that? What is lacking with prior approval?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C666300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 666300,
      "EditedText": "There are different reasons for that. As far as I can gather, prior approval will be a two-tier system. Where there is a 42-day notification period, it will involve almost the same amount of administration as it would take to deal with a planning application: the application will have to be registered, its competency will have to be checked, consultation will have to be undertaken, the application will have to be advertised, a site visit will be required, and all of that will be required to be assimilated, perhaps in a committee report, before a decision can be reached. That is almost no different from the procedure for a planning application.There are differences that give rise to concern. First, prior approval does not require neighbour notification. There is a quasi-assumption that a prior approval will get consent anyway if everything is in accordance with the guidance, whatever that is. Secondly, there is no planning fee, which reflects the amount of work that may need to be done.As a practising planner, I find it difficult to see that prior approval offers any real-time advantage for operators. One of the difficulties, however, is that if a prior approval is not dealt with within 42 days, there will be a deemed approval, which potentially puts quite a lot of pressure on planning authorities. For permitted development, it also introduces the strange concept of having to give more priority to prior approval than to planning applications, for which people have paid a full fee and are going through the system. That goes for everyone in the planning system, from industrial developers to householders. It is difficult for the public to comprehend why there should be a difference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 666301,
      "EditedText": "It is also difficult for a number of people in industry. I have already received a delegation of members from Midlothian chamber of commerce. One or two employers have asked why they have to go through a certain process when other organisations do not. In my surgery, people have asked why they have not been notified about masts that have been erected in my area. If I want to hang a new door or extend my house, I have to do certain things, yet I could wake up one morning with a mast at the back of my house and would not be able to say anything about it. Practical problems arise from not having a system that applies throughout."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C666302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 666302,
      "EditedText": "My next two points are related. First, is the current system flexible enough or is it lacking? It is all very well for Midlothian to do one thing, but should there be a national plan rather than individual local authority systems?Secondly, I understand that COSLA has a working group. What direction is it heading in? What view does it take of an overall national policy? What are the practical aspects?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C666304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Dinsdale: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 666304,
      "EditedText": "The task group produced a policy paper last year, which I can make available to the committee. Generally, we were in favour of national guidance, but the detail of a national plan will be examined further in the future."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666305",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 666305,
      "EditedText": "I want to follow up Bill Hepburn's point about the similarities and differences between prior approval and full planning. As far as you understand prior approval procedures, could the time period within which a decision has to be taken be extended if an environmental impact assessment were required, which would take one beyond 42 days? Could the planning authority extend the period if it judged that the applicant, by failing to provide information or sufficient documentation, had made it impossible to determine the application? For example, one could imagine that an applicant might not give information to the authority's satisfaction in a roads construction consent case. That might lead to the process being protracted. Can you extend the 42-day period or would you lose simply because the time frame locked you out? Is there an incentive for the applicant to spin matters out as long as possible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 666306,
      "EditedText": "The question of whether the period could be extended is one for the Scottish Executive, which drafts the regulations. I understand from the evidence of John Gunstone about his discussions with COSLA last week that the answer is no. The period is set at 42 days, or 28 days for installations on buildings or other smaller-scale installations.We operate an informal system in the Highlands in which we undertake consultations on a 28-day notification. Frequently, we cannot respond in that time, for a range of factors. In practice, the operators are reluctant to jump in and accept permitted development. There may be a de facto opportunity to extend the period, but probably not in terms of the regulations. That creates an uncertainty which is unhelpful to both sides of any argument.If one seeks to extend the period, the procedure will become so close to being a planning application as will make no difference. The planning application system does not impose a deadline in quite the same way: one cannot take a deemed approval at the end of a two-month period, but one can take a deemed refusal. In practice, if there are difficulties with a planning application, one can negotiate with the developer and seek compromises that may be acceptable. If the developer does not like that, he has a pathway to a decision, as he can appeal against it.In those circumstances, I see very little advantage to having a prior notification rather than a full planning application. Planning applications have the advantage of allowing more flexibility in the system. I doubt in practice that there will be significant delays other than there might be in any case with contentious prior notification procedures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 666308,
      "EditedText": "It is more accurate to say that the developer can accept a deemed refusal, but can appeal against the non-determination of a planning application. However, the onus is on him to do that, if he feels that there is an opportunity for negotiating, compromising and seeking to allay the concerns of the authority or the public. We can then proceed to determine that proposal. That might take two weeks, a month, two months, or longer, but at least a decision is reached, possibly a lot quicker than could be done for a contested prior notification."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666313",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 666313,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the work that COSLA has done and the fact that a consensus is emerging. How many local authorities believe that we need full planning control and how many favour the prior approval process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 666317,
      "EditedText": "In the planning process, there are difficulties in dealing with sensitive areas. Normally, the orthodox way of considering them is as a physical boundary, but I suspect that you are referring to health issues. One of the difficulties of drawing a boundary is that it is an artificial thing to do. A mast sited immediately beside a sensitive boundary could be as problematic as one sited just inside it.We can define in guidance what sensitivities might be, but it is difficult to draw hard-and-fast boundaries across a range of factors. In the Highlands, there are landscape sensitivities about masts rather than health concerns. Some areas are designated as national scenic areas, but other vast and precious areas are not. I am not convinced of the value of drawing hard physical boundaries around sensitive areas. Sensitivities are hard to define and the situation will be trickier if we include health issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 666325,
      "EditedText": "My council has an interim precautionary policy, pending further advice. It seeks to prevent apparatus being sited on schools or sensitive residential accommodation: people's homes, social work homes or whatever. It is a difficult issue for planning authorities and requires an overview by Government, fitting the real problem into a reasonable, scientific evidential context and deciding which, if any, precautionary distances or factors should be taken into account.The perception of health effects is a material planning consideration, but the weight that you can give that must rely on rational evidence. At this stage, on the face of it, there is not—and there may never be—a good body of conclusive evidence. In these circumstances, it will be difficult for planning authorities to deal with health issues, whether through a prior notification or a planning application procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 666331,
      "EditedText": "The planning system is designed to deal with orthodox environmental concerns and material matters: siting design, external appearance and impact on amenity—for the most part, it is a visual and physical thing. Health concerns arise quite frequently in relation to waste tips, emissions from incinerators and so on. Case law has accepted that public perception of a health concern can be a material consideration. In some cases, a very acute perception would influence the planning authority in taking a decision or locating a development.The difficulty with telecommunications apparatus is that the health effects are ill defined, if at all. It will be some years before that research is conclusive, if ever. At the moment, there is no evidence that would allow the planning authority to base a refusal on health grounds. Telecommunications apparatus is ubiquitous. Preventing the siting of apparatus at a school, for example, may not prevent health effects were the apparatus to be sited across the road, where we might have no control. Furthermore, the industry would argue that there might be no health effect, or that there might be less of an effect, if the apparatus were sited on the building rather than across the road. It is difficult to deal with that in the planning process. We need the Government to take a lead, to view the evidence and to say—in whatever precautionary terms it chooses—what planning authorities should do, so that there is a level playing field."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 666334,
      "EditedText": "At present, we are talking about the visual impact of masts and about competition. From a local government perspective, those factors are easy to measure. Members will appreciate the difficulty that local government has. I represent the second smallest local authority in Scotland. There are very few people in that council with the expertise required to judge whether there is a health and safety issue. The City of Edinburgh Council and Glasgow City Council are represented here today, and members will be asking them specific questions. Being much larger authorities, they might have a deeper understanding in their departments. It comes down to the statutory bodies making a determination on health and safety issues. I watched a television programme about beef on the bone last night. You have a great challenge to resolve that one, because you will get every opinion under the sun: the companies will argue one way, and the environmentalists another. You have to make a judgment. That judgment can be made only at the centre, because local government does not have the resources to make it. Aspects such as visual impact should be dealt with by the appropriate planning authorities. There is a fundamental flaw in the system. Firms, owners, employers and the general population are saying, \"Something is wrong. We have to do this, but they can do that.\" It is as simple as that. Members might wish to discuss the more detailed questions among themselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C666335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 666335,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to oversimplify matters, but am I right in saying that COSLA wishes a national plan to be introduced but that, within that, full planning approval would provide the regulatory framework that you require, and that that would give you sufficient room to manoeuvre, depending on circumstances? Is there something more than that, or does that cover the national plan and full planning approval in a nutshell?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 666336,
      "EditedText": "There should be national guidance and full planning approval for major structures, certainly. I am not trying to argue—certainly not on the part of my council—that planning permission is necessary for every last piece of telecommunications development. That would be impossible. There are many levels of permitted development now which are very minor in orthodox planning terms. As the industry evolves, that is becoming more and more prevalent. Burglar-alarm-type antennae can now be sited on buildings: we would not normally consider that to require planning permission. It is not even a matter of permitted development. The term de minimis comes to mind: such devices are so small as to be insignificant. With regard to health issues, it makes something of a mockery to try to control the major structures when all those minor structures can be erected with no planning control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 666341,
      "EditedText": "The danger is that there might not be clear guidance on how to deal with the health issues in the different circumstances that might arise. With a prior notification procedure or a planning application procedure, there will be great variation in the decisions that are taken by different local authorities, which might weigh those factors differently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 666343,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with what you are saying. The planning application process at least allows a broad community view of the acceptability of development. We can feed into that the expertise of other regulatory authorities—on water and sewerage, for example, or the expertise of the Health and Safety Executive—which might be able to comment at the time of the planning application on what the implications will be. However, the planning application procedure is not suitable for making individual decisions unless there is clear guidance on health concerns such as individual telecommunications apparatus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Dinsdale: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 666347,
      "EditedText": "The concern raised in that point has been reflected by the number of councils that have adopted the precautionary principle on their own premises. Until there is guidance, councils will have problems justifying or explaining decisions to the public—so there is a need for some central guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 666348,
      "EditedText": "So, although you are sceptical about the evidence, you are fully signed up to the principle of a precautionary approach. Is there no ambiguity about that? I thought that Bill Hepburn's view on the health issue—expressed quite trenchantly—was that he was unimpressed by the argument. Notwithstanding that, are you firm that you want a precautionary principle?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 666349,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I should clarify my position. I am not \"unimpressed\" by the view that health might be an issue, and I am not decrying the view that health might be an issue; I am simply saying that it is an issue that it is difficult for the planning process, as framed, to take into account. I fully agree with COSLA's evidence to you that the Government should take it into account. It is an up-front public issue just now. Indeed, the Government is taking it into account in so far as the House of Commons Select Committee on Science and Technology recently issued a report on it.Because it is difficult for the planning process to take the health issue into account, we need clear Government guidance on how planning authorities should deal with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 666356,
      "EditedText": "Instead of pushing for an answer that COSLA cannot give at the moment, we should flag up those areas with the organisation and follow up the points on the back of its conference and further consultations with member authorities. However, Murray Tosh is fundamentally right. Although we are discussing the general issue, we will try to address some specifics in our report, which will have a wide-ranging impact on how the matter develops."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 666357,
      "EditedText": "We will give a written response to that matter.The committee has an overview. I understand that this is its third meeting on the issue and that it has taken evidence from witnesses from different parts of the country, from different areas of expertise and with different opinions. When COSLA discusses the issue, it will take into account evidence from the seminar, the deliberations at this meeting and a review of papers up to now. I take Bill Hepburn's point that local authorities will answer your specific questions in the second part of the session. COSLA will give a rounded view and submit a written response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 666359,
      "EditedText": "A related question has come up in previous sessions. When the precautionary principle has been discussed, the question has been raised about which buildings and uses should be covered. There is a view that residential property should be subject to a different spatial protection from that for buildings with less intensive occupation, such as office and commercial buildings. If COSLA has opinions on that, we would like to hear them now; if not, we would like the organisation to express them soon, as central Government guidance to local authorities is bound to contain its own views on the subject.Furthermore, if consents are given to telecommunications installations in relation to existing neighbouring uses, presumably the guidance given would require rigorous scrutiny of any further planning applications within the cordon that might impact on the telecommunications use.Do you have any immediate reactions to the different types of use or building, or are you still considering the issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 666363,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I can answer your second question on the difference between the precautionary approach for individual buildings and that for sensitive areas. I explained the difficulty that will exist because, clearly, microcell developments will not require planning permission, but other telecommunications developments will. There will be no point in having a policy that is based on health issues for larger structures that could not control smaller ones.Local authorities will find it difficult to deal with these issues, unless there is clear guidance from Government on what the level of risk is and consequently what, in the interest of the public, the level of precaution should be. Ideally, the system will work much better if the Government issues clear guidelines so that every local authority and operator thinks in the same way about things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 666364,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify whether the wider economic issues in network provision are material planning considerations? There are arguments about how wide the network provision should be. There are areas, especially rural areas, that would not have coverage if there were strict national guidelines. Also, how would you take account of the desire of society to have adequate network provision in densely populated areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 666368,
      "EditedText": "I assure you that they do not. Many parts of Scotland are not covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 666369,
      "EditedText": "In any case, as Bill Hepburn said, there are not many areas in northern Scotland where a mast would not be put up, so I do not think that that issue would arise. Surely guidance would not presume against development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 666374,
      "EditedText": "I would like some specific information about material planning considerations. What process is used for setting the parameters of what constitutes a material planning consideration, and who determines what is considered material?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 666376,
      "EditedText": "Does your answer imply that different criteria are being employed by different authorities to determine materiality and that, even within authorities, different weightings may be given to different cases?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 666381,
      "EditedText": "The current guidance on telecommunications is that planning authorities may consider the perception of a health effect material, but the innuendo is that it should not be taken into consideration in any planning decision. The NRPB advises that health issues are matters for the Health and Safety Executive and Government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 666382,
      "EditedText": "If health is not dealt with as a material planning consideration, is it reasonable for us to consider introducing a precautionary approach at national level with health as a major factor?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 666383,
      "EditedText": "It is reasonable for the Government to recognise public concern and to seek proper advice. As that public concern is manifested in planning decisions, the Government should be giving planning authorities proper advice based on the expertise that is available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 666394,
      "EditedText": "Government and other agencies perhaps?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 666398,
      "EditedText": "Which factors should be taken into account in deciding the other environmental impacts of masts, particularly in urban areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 666408,
      "EditedText": "So the complaints procedure will relate to the licensing element, not to the planning element?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 666409,
      "EditedText": "In my understanding, the complaints procedure will relate principally to the licensing element, and there are other procedures that already are established within the planning regime with which people can take up their grievances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 666410,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is anything at the present time. Currently, if someone takes a complaint through local government to the ombudsman, it goes through a number of mechanisms. The ombudsman does not just look at the issue, but at how the council responded to the issue, how each of the appropriate departments dealt with it, and whether it was dealt with in an effective way. We do not have an established system. It would be difficult for an ombudsman, or any independent authority, to make a judgment. That issue may need to be clarified as matters progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 666414,
      "EditedText": "The main way that they feed into it is not through the planning process, but through the operators having to observe the current guidance and regulations from HSE, as advised by the NRPB."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 666415,
      "EditedText": "Is that outside the planning system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 666416,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666420",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 666420,
      "EditedText": "Yes, there is no reason why that should not happen under prior notification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C666423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 666423,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that Government advice on telecommunications developments would be best provided through the national planning policy guidelines or the planning advice notes or national guidance of a different form that would be regularly updated? What should that guidance address?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 666426,
      "EditedText": "One of the difficulties is that, as recent experience in the Highlands shows, this is a dynamic industry. It produces a lot of proposals and it is difficult to fit that in within the time scales of the community planning process—by which I assume that you mean the production of structure and local plans. It is not impossible; it can be helpful to take telecommunication developments into account in the community planning process.  For example, in Highland, various meetings are held prior to local plans appearing, in the planning for real process. That is an opportunity to let the public air their views and to be advised of impending developments in their area. It could be taken into account but it may need careful handling in relation to the rate of roll-out of operators' network programmes and the planning process as a whole."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 666427,
      "EditedText": "As there are no other questions, I thank the COSLA witnesses for coming along. I know that you are going to sit through the next session.We will now have a short comfort break."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 666429,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson (City of Edinburgh Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 666432,
      "EditedText": "From Edinburgh's point of view, the ownership side of considering these installations is dealt with separately from the planning process—it is dealt with through a separate range of committees. In view of public concerns about the risks associated with this equipment, the council undertakes a formal consultation process with the local community before it comes to a decision on installing masts on its premises."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 666434,
      "EditedText": "We are particularly interested in the policy in relation to property owned by the authorities. Have the authorities faced any contradictions or difficulties?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 666435,
      "EditedText": "Glasgow currently has more than 70 masts, aerials and antennae—call them what you will—on top of multi-storey blocks. The interpretation has been given that that might be better than placing them on top of schools, for example. Nevertheless, we have to examine the history, which, I am told, goes right back to the 1960s, when developments started for different forms of communication. We are addressing a new issue in the context of a long history. It will be all the more difficult to take a new position for that reason—we cannot turn the clock back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 666436,
      "EditedText": "The issue of income has been raised at a couple of this committee's meetings and in some media reports. What income do you expect from the operators from siting masts on council property?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 666438,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone else wish to comment on that? It is a widely held view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C666439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 666439,
      "EditedText": "I am curious to know the ballpark figure. I appreciate that you might think that that is a low blow but, if local authorities have to site these things, it seems perfectly legitimate and reasonable for them to charge for it. Is there a pattern of charges? Are some local authorities perhaps undercharging?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 666442,
      "EditedText": "I reiterate that I am not involved in that, so I do not know how a figure is set or derived. It is not something that I have ever been party to. I know that there is a charge, but I have no way of assessing what a reasonable charge should be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 666446,
      "EditedText": "It struck me earlier in the meeting that there could be some difficulty between local authorities if, for example, Glasgow had a policy of not wanting a mast and an adjoining authority was happy to have one 50 m from the boundary. How would Glasgow react to Renfrewshire in such a case, or vice versa? I suspect that tensions will arise between authorities, irrespective of the financial aspect, as a result of policy differences."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn (Highland Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 666447,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that such matters can be taken into account when dealing with the individual planning applications. If they were, developers might be accused of buying planning permission. We make a strong point of divorcing any consideration of a lease arrangement from planning considerations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 666449,
      "EditedText": "That is certainly not the case, to my knowledge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 666451,
      "EditedText": "I understand that, if someone owns a private home in a high-rise flat, they will receive a share of the rental income. Council tenants get nothing, but private householders get their divvy-up of the rental money. I have heard that from several residents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 666454,
      "EditedText": "If a mast is built on a community centre—and I know of such examples—the money goes directly to the community centre. That is hypothecation, if you like. As in the case of developers who want to build houses in a council area, the potential contribution has to be considered. I do not know Glasgow's budget, but I would have thought that £500,000 is not even a ripple—it is nothing in comparison to the size of that council's budget. As an elected member, I think that the really important thing is to ensure at all times that any request for an installation is separated from the financial benefit that the local authority may or may not get. I would be extremely concerned if the financial consideration was prioritised to the detriment of either the visual or the health issue, which are the most important considerations. I cannot answer in any specific terms. There would be no competition between Edinburgh and Midlothian. Midlothian won Ikea—Edinburgh is extremely arrogant about that. At the end of the day, such competition causes ructions. There are examples all over the place of one council making a decision that means that operators find it easier to go to another council. Standardisation will help to alleviate that problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 666456,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, the operator, not the local authority, would be the applicant. If it were the local authority, there would be a different planning procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 666463,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 666464,
      "EditedText": "The current system is completely inadequate. The limit is 15 m for permitted development. That is the measurement that the industry uses: it builds right up to the 15 m limit. Some of the structures are fairly inconsequential, in that they are slim monopoles that may have two aerials fitted at the top. However, much more substantial steel gantry tripod structures can also be built pretty much at will by the operators if they are permitted development. The planning authorities have no effective mechanism to deal with any objection that they might have to those structures.The public feel at a loss, aggrieved and almost abandoned by the system when they see 15 m gantries being erected in close proximity to houses, with no redress. That has a major effect, but the industry carries on regardless. I know that the licensing system obliges companies to have regard for environmental considerations, but it is very difficult for the planning authorities to make headway in relation to that legislation. That raises the question who should police the licence. That is not the responsibility of the planning authority. The public perception is that the licences are not policed and that the whole system is inadequate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 666467,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on the point about enforcement. Are those policy areas where detailed planning is required effectively policed or do you find that you have difficulties with the operators? Do the operators change the specifications or fail to comply with conditions? There are always practical difficulties in enforcing planning conditions. It would be useful to know whether the practice of planning is proving effective right through to the final development. That would give us a steer as to whether a further range of applications would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3743582+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C666469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 666469,
      "EditedText": "I am sympathetic to the idea that we should consider generalising planning requirements, particularly for neighbour notification schemes, so that people know what is going to be built in their locality and have an opportunity to make their views known. Is there an opportunity for the planning or licensing authority, as part of its dialogue with the operator, to discuss alternative sites that may be more environmentally suitable, either because they are further from housing or are in a less intrusive setting? I know about one example of an operator putting up a mast overnight without notifying the neighbours. In my view, abundant alternatives were available nearby. In addition to considering neighbour notification as a planning requirement, do we need to consider the terms under which an authority can refuse an application—for example, because a better or more suitable site is available in the immediate vicinity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 666475,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that the operators would tell us if we were holding up developments. I think that the operators have accepted, in Edinburgh, the environmental constraints of a world heritage site and have been willing to look at alternative solutions. That has been a positive reaction from them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 666477,
      "EditedText": "We seem to be moving the debate towards procedures and performance. At a previous meeting, Mr Nick Greer gave evidence on behalf of one of the operators. He said that the industry liked the concept of permitted development because it created a favourable environment for the operators—an environment that removed them from public debate. He promoted the argument that an adverse environment would be created if the operators had to go through the proper planning process. The reason for his view was that most cases—under the prior notification scheme—would be dealt with under delegated powers, whereas under the planning application system, cases would be moved away from planning officers towards politicians. He saw that as a retrograde step.What Mr Greer fails to understand is that in the vast majority of Scottish authorities, most applications are dealt with by delegation to planning officers. About 80 per cent of applications to my authority are dealt with by officers at my level. It is only when something goes wrong—where there is a conflict with policy or when somebody lodges an objection—that the application moves to a committee. Once it is in committee, the matter is debated in an open forum.The industry does not understand properly how planning authorities work and it is high time that it did. I hope that if we engage in dialogue, we can make clear our procedures to the industry. If we had a system that required planning permission for the largest structures, an application would come to the authority in the usual way and officers would examine it. If they were content with that application and there were no objections to it, it would be approved as a delegated item. That would be no different from prior approval; it is only when there is a problem that an application goes before a committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 666479,
      "EditedText": "I note the points that were made about the effectiveness of the current framework, and the number of applications that are approved because they are delegated to officers. I would like to explore the effectiveness of the prior approval system. A number of interesting points were made about that by previous witnesses to the committee, particularly by those from the Royal Town Planning Institute in Scotland.As an example of a situation in which prior approval may not have worked for agricultural buildings, the RTPI said in its written submission that\"planning authorities . . . are only too well aware that the imposition of improved standards for such buildings at this stage is likely to have little impact on a landscape already extensively blighted by poorly sited and inappropriately designed farm buildings.\"Planning authorities presumably seek to maintain and enhance the environment, whatever its current state. Do you think that that is fair comment? Does prior approval fail to work because of the attitude and approach of planning authorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 666484,
      "EditedText": "The Executive proposes a two-tier system—a 28-day period for prior approval for structures on buildings, and a 42-day period for free-standing structures. That reflects the English and Welsh system, which is up and running.The first stage is an application being lodged with the authority. The authority must then decide whether prior approval is necessary and must investigate the application in sufficient depth to make that judgment. If it is content that there is no problem with the scheme, the usual permitted development provisos will simply take effect.If the council takes the view that there is a difficulty and, therefore, that prior approval is necessary, the procedure moves to the second stage and an advertisement is published. The Executive is suggesting that neighbour notification should take place. If neighbour notification does not happen, the current situation will be weakened vis-à-vis planning applications.Phase 2 takes one into the 42-day period. As Bill Hepburn said, if an authority misses that deadline, it is deemed that permission has been granted and the authority loses the opportunity to modify the application. If an authority decides that there is a problem and does not find a proposal acceptable, the application must, presumably, go to committee with the report that sets out why the council finds the application unacceptable. That mirrors exactly what happens with planning applications. A decision by the committee that there should not be prior approval is equivalent to a refusal of planning permission. In difficult cases, therefore, prior approval does not achieve anything that the planning permission procedure could not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 666485,
      "EditedText": "What about public notification and consultation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 666486,
      "EditedText": "I understand that there is no neighbour notification—that is a defect. A public advertisement is required—if members of the public see that advertisement and respond timeously to it they can participate in the debate. If they miss that chance they cannot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 666487,
      "EditedText": "Can you confirm that there would be one public advertisement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 666488,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 666490,
      "EditedText": "There are various types of prior notification system. The system in the proposed legislation is inherently more complex than the comparative simplicity of a planning application. When the existing legislation was drawn up, it was done so in the context of deregulation—allowing industry to do things more quickly and simply—but the statutory structure that has been created to facilitate that is complicated and difficult for practitioners to work with. It is possibly far more complicated for the public to understand. We often have to try to explain why some things need planning permission and others do not, and the public are bemused by our answers. I think that the planning application system is simpler than the prior notification system. If the planning application were used, everybody would know where they stood and we could get on with the business and reach the correct decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 666497,
      "EditedText": "Please excuse me for having missed part of your presentation and for any repetition that may arise from that.How do the operational requirements and costs—in terms of work load, administration, processing and so on—of the prior approval system compare with those of the planning application system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 666498,
      "EditedText": "They are almost equal. Bill Hepburn made the point that the fee for the prior approval system is limited to about £33 or £35, which is part of the favourable environment created by the existing legislation. However, officers dealing with the prior approval system are being put through exactly the same work as with the planning application system. To discharge his duty properly and professionally, the officer must receive the application, check it to ensure that it is competent, go to the site to assess it and, possibly, consult colleagues in other departments to ensure that their interests are properly safeguarded. Eventually, some kind of report will be written that confirms whether the proposal is good or bad and gives the reasons for that view. That is exactly the procedure with planning applications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 666506,
      "EditedText": "My experience of mast sharing is that, although the industry says, \"Yes, we will mast share\", there is a considerable reluctance on the part of operators to do so, for obvious reasons—they like to be masters of their own patch, I suppose. One would need either a carrot or a stick to try to force them into mast-sharing agreements. They will not easily volunteer if such agreements will pose some difficulty for them.There has been talk of using section 75 legal agreements in the Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997 to encourage mast sharing, but that would work only if the authority could wave some kind of stick. Usually, a section 75 agreement comes into play only as a device to render acceptable something that may have been unacceptable. If such an incentive does not exist, experience suggests that the industry would not pick up the idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 666508,
      "EditedText": "We can get back to you on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 666509,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on, I want to ask about prior approval and neighbour notification. Is that an option for you, or is it not allowed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 666511,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the comparison between prior approval procedures and full planning control. I do not want you to repeat what you have said, only to summarise it and make your views crystal clear.Operators tell us that they are very concerned about the time taken by local authorities to consider proposals for the siting of telecommunications equipment. How can you ensure that there are no delays in the planning system? What information could be provided in advance? Could there be consultation at the earliest stages?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 666512,
      "EditedText": "Time delays in the planning system are an old chestnut. Our nominal target for processing applications is two months. In my council, we manage to deal with between 70 and 80 per cent in that time. Ordinarily, the ones that overshoot are the ones that involve some problems and therefore require further investigation and debate.It would be relatively straightforward for an authority to give special consideration to telecoms installations, if the Executive so desired. That would be for the national planning policy guidelines on telecommunications to emphasise. If a proposal is relatively straightforward, a timeous decision will likely be reached; if it is complicated for some reason, it will probably overshoot. However, a prior approval system would do exactly the same.Authorities have to organise themselves to allow simple and straightforward cases a fair wind through the system. It is not difficult to do that; it is just a matter of internal administration, allowing the complicated cases to be spotted and dealt with appropriately. The majority of cases are dealt with within the two-month time scale.As for providing information in advance, we encourage all applicants to engage in a dialogue with us to ensure that the key points for any site proposal are identified and dealt with in advance to enable the application to be processed more quickly. That process has not happened with cases that take a long time. It is important for the industry to recognise that and for the planning authorities to set out their stall, which they would normally do through the development plan system, so that the industry knows in advance what the tests are and where the sensitivities lie. That would allow a meaningful and effective dialogue, in which everybody would know about the process when the application was lodged. They may know in advance whether the application will go to committee, possibly with a recommendation of refusal, but they will take their chances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 666517,
      "EditedText": "The targets for the planning application process are set by the Accounts Commission. Would full planning control make a difference to your view on higher targets for telecoms?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 666518,
      "EditedText": "Performance is monitored every six months. If I remember correctly, existing targets are set down in NPPG 1. However, if the Executive told planning authorities that that weight of resource needed to be given to telecoms, we would do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 666519,
      "EditedText": "I want to mop up a point about full planning permission before I ask my main questions. Would a further advantage of moving to a system where full planning applications were required—bearing in mind what was said about the speed of development of telecommunications—be that you could give temporary approvals so that installations could be reconsidered in three years or so?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 666522,
      "EditedText": "It would provide another layer of flexibility. The industry has been trying to present the planning application system as inflexible—that is wrong. It is an inherently flexible system, which allows open debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 666528,
      "EditedText": "My council's policies echo what has been described for Dumfries and Galloway and for Edinburgh. Highland Council is supportive of telecommunications in the Highlands, because it is bringing tangible benefits; for example, the University of the Highlands and Islands will be linked by microwave telecommunications. It is clear that remote, disadvantaged areas will receive some support from improved communications.The health issue is emerging but, above all, the council wants proper control over it; planning permission would give that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ContributionID": 666541,
      "EditedText": "That would not need to happen unless it could be demonstrated that that accumulation of lesser equipment was itself causing a problem. If it was, then it would need to be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 519.0,
      "ContributionID": 666542,
      "EditedText": "You could approach it that way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 666548,
      "EditedText": "David Banford said that health is already a material planning consideration. Are you saying that each of the 32 local authorities could take their own opinion, under planning guidelines for telephone masts, as to whether to allow them?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 666550,
      "EditedText": "Do local authorities have the right to introduce it? You said that health is already a material planning consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Banford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 666551,
      "EditedText": "They have the right, but they would not exercise it because they do not have the evidence on which to base any judgment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 550.0,
      "ContributionID": 666557,
      "EditedText": "As I said, I suspect that it is somewhat late in the day to achieve the remedy that you may be seeking. I do not fault you for doing that. Let me tell you about Glasgow's present situation. I do not question the precautionary principle and I understand the reasons for it.In the first flush of dealing with this issue, rather than adopting the precautionary principle—I do not know whether I had heard that expression then—we sought all the advice we could from the HSE, the NRPB and others, and bought equipment to measure, within reasonable parameters, what was going on.I do not say that the equipment is the best in the world, but it allowed me to tell my committee that, measured against what the Government permitted through agencies such as the NRPB, the level of emissions from particular installations was relatively low. A reasonable person could not conclude from such results that a great deal of harm was being caused. I do not want to open up the debate that you have been through with other people.It would be difficult for a group of politicians to expect an officer who has found that emissions are at levels that are hundreds or thousands of times lower in magnitude than what Government says is permissible to conclude that harm is being caused. We are in an extremely difficult area. The evidence from other experts—you have heard the conflicting views of medical experts—only adds further confusion to the process. I am sorry, but that answer is as complicated as it sounds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 556.0,
      "ContributionID": 666560,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments from witnesses on the question of a cordon sanitaire?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 564.0,
      "ContributionID": 666564,
      "EditedText": "David Hamilton might be happy to know that Glasgow and Edinburgh have as much knowledge of this as his authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 570.0,
      "ContributionID": 666567,
      "EditedText": "I could not attempt to answer that as a planner but, in my guise as regulator, I can say that one could impose a standard against which to measure things. If there were breaches of that standard, one could use the available regulatory devices to set them to rights. That is an enforcement, rather than a planning, answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Henderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 666570,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is correct. The situation will be easier to tackle if technology has moved on and facilities are redundant to the operator."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 666574,
      "EditedText": "If cordons sanitaires and the precautionary principle were established, existing facilities that did not meet the new standards would become the focus of political initiatives and intense public concern. In such circumstances, we would want to do something about such facilities, particularly those that were not likely to be overtaken quickly by the new wave of technology. We would want to consider ways of extinguishing existing consents or to set in motion action that would cause them to be relocated or substantially redesigned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 666576,
      "EditedText": "I agree with David Banford. Perhaps the cost of revocation orders themselves, never mind the cost of physically moving installations, would be significant. On one occasion, the Highland Council granted planning permission and a lease, and later sought through agreement with the applicant to revoke it. The compensation charge worked out as something like £130,000 for a relatively minor installation, which gives you an idea of the magnitude of the task."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 666577,
      "EditedText": "What was the process for that revocation? If the applicant had not agreed to the revocation on a voluntary-cum-compensation basis, would you have had to go court?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 594.0,
      "ContributionID": 666579,
      "EditedText": "My answer is somewhat different. If the technology is moving as fast as we lay people believe it is, the 2,000 masts that are now in use will become redundant as new technology takes over. When any changes in legislation come into effect, a line should be drawn to decide how to progress from that point. With the number of masts growing by 20 a month and with a third generation of more sophisticated technology coming in, it may be in the interests of the operator to move on to the new operations rather than looking backwards. The situation may not be as bad as one might think.I am of the opinion that people move on. For example, the Government has just introduced new opencast regulations. That does not make a difference to what happened before, but the new legislation puts the onus on the company rather than on the council, as used to be the case. We have taken those regulations on board and an operation that would have been permitted last year may not be permitted this year. The picture may not be as gloomy as it appears."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 599.0,
      "ContributionID": 666581,
      "EditedText": "Before we come to the final question, I think that Murray Tosh wants to say something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 613.0,
      "ContributionID": 666588,
      "EditedText": "Those are issues that we will want to follow up. Our final question comes from Helen Eadie."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C666589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 615.0,
      "ContributionID": 666589,
      "EditedText": "Previous witnesses have suggested that there are deficiencies in the enforcement of environmental safeguards in the licences. What do you consider to be the main consequences of those deficiencies? Who should be responsible for enforcement and what is the role of local authorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3969
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 617.0,
      "ContributionID": 666590,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned by the fact that masts are live almost all the time. People are employed to tinker with them and repair them, and those are the people who will be exposed to large doses of radiation. I am not attacking or criticising the Health and Safety Executive, but it falls to that regulatory body to take on board that sort of issue. I would like to know whether there is any evidence about the level of radiation exposure experienced by people who maintain and repair telecommunications masts, and the health effects. It is a relatively new industry and we are still learning, but I am not convinced that there is adequate protection against the conditions in which some people are working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3899871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 604842,
      "EditedText": "Again, we return to the point that so many poindings and warrant sales are pursued by local authorities when no arrangements have been made for the time to pay. That is a matter of deep concern.I want to pursue the point that the sheriff officer must withdraw if any children under the age of 16 are present. We have received evidence from people who have told their children not to answer the door, in case it was the sheriff officer. Any parent knows that their children might go in and out of the house—the children might not be in the house at the time, but they might return at any moment. From the diligence committee's perspective, you represent the pursuants, rather than the clients. Are your clients aware that they might have to take action that could be extremely distressing to young children? Will you make your clients aware of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 604844,
      "EditedText": "The arrestment of wages does not affect children: that is the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 604788,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order. I am raising this matter now because there is no suitable point on the agenda at which to raise it. There has been some speculation about the joint ministerial task forces between Westminster and the Executive that are being proposed by Gordon Brown. I am concerned, as should be other committee members, that this committee will be working with other bodies, for example, the relevant select committee from Westminster. Announcements such as that should be discussed by this committee first, and should not be announced from London.Is there an opportunity for this committee to discuss the possibility of working with committees from Westminster? We have already discussed housing benefit, warrant sales and evidence from the Department of Social Security, so there are specific areas of common ground on which we can work together, but I would prefer it if this committee could agree on the basis on which that is done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.3030692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 604790,
      "EditedText": "We can address the issue now if it is dealt with as a point of order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 604793,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to put that on the agenda. The initial contact was purely exploratory. It was not meant in any way to pre-empt any decisions made by this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 604799,
      "EditedText": "Can the clerk translate that into parliamentary language? We have had a short paper, but not the substantial one from Scottish Homes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell (Law Society of Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 604810,
      "EditedText": "A paper, issued yesterday by the Scottish Law Commission, suggested that throughout the European Union and the Commonwealth every country has a system of attaching moveables. The paper states that 42 countries in the western world have a similar system to Scotland.Our preliminary researches indicate that the debtor protection measures that we introduced in Scotland in 1987 are not replicated in England. We have wider debtor protection measures in Scotland than apply elsewhere in the United Kingdom, because of the introduction of the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987. In relation to England, my understanding is that there is provision for imprisonment in the recovery of local rates, where the failure to pay rates is deemed to be wilful.We in Scotland have moved away from that approach in relation to debt. I cannot remember an instance in Scotland where someone was imprisoned for debt. There are exceptions in relation to imprisonment for breach of interdict and that kind of thing. That is looked on as a contempt of court rather than a sanction against failure to pay debt. In Scotland we think that we are better placed than many of our neighbours in the UK, Europe and the Commonwealth in debtor protection."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
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      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 604815,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that people will want to explore that with you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 604818,
      "EditedText": "The Justice and Home Affairs Committee of the Parliament took that evidence two weeks ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 604819,
      "EditedText": "Under summary warrants, poindings are not reported to the court, unlike conventional diligence. I wonder, therefore, where the figures came from, although I accept them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 604820,
      "EditedText": "Do you accept that 16,000 of those 23,000 poindings were summary warrants and that under that procedure the poor and the vulnerable are at risk? One of the instances quoted by the principal solicitor of the Govan law centre was a woman who was on £80 a week benefit who had council arrears of £255. She had sheriff officers at her door demanding that she pay £75 rather than the £5 a week that she could afford. I suggest that the poor and the vulnerable are at risk from that procedure. If you do not know that, you should."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 604827,
      "EditedText": "It may be that this is something that needs to be researched by the Scottish Law Commission, but my understanding is that there is a system of attachment of moveables; not sequestration, but restrainment of goods."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 604830,
      "EditedText": "Before you go on, do all 41 of those countries give warrant officers the right to come to somebody's door, use forced entry, even when only under-16s are present, and poind goods?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 604833,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 2.68 of the report goes on to say: \"Several systems allow forcible entry into the debtor's dwelling or other premises.\"Norway and Sweden are given as examples."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 604834,
      "EditedText": "Do the other 39 countries allow it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 604837,
      "EditedText": "That may be the view that the Parliament comes to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 604839,
      "EditedText": "That relates only to forcible entry. We pointed out that one of the protections introduced under the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 is the fact that forcible entry cannot be made if children under the age of 16 are present, which is something that Mr McAllion mentioned. Another protection that was introduced is that a section 18 notice—I think that is what it is called—must be served before entry can be forced. That gives the defendant an opportunity to challenge the notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone (Law Society of Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 604841,
      "EditedText": "The Law Society welcomes the opportunity to give evidence today and is obliged that those promoting the bill have given us the opportunity to participate in a review of the law in this area. I do not consider that the purpose of poindings or warrant sales is to create fear. Distress may be caused as a consequence of them, but poindings and warrant sales are seen as a remedy.Poindings and warrant sales are used by a number of institutions and individuals. Their use is not confined only to financial institutions to recover payment of sums due. They may also be used by a man or wife following a divorce to recover payments of aliment or by an employee who has been wrongfully dismissed whose employer has been found against, to recover payments that are rightly due to them. I speak as convener of the consumer law committee when I say that we are genuinely concerned to ensure that such individuals are not deprived of a remedy, which would be the case if the bill were passed.The other question was whether we have thought of how to alleviate what could be perceived as the distressing consequences. That is a difficult question. Any measure to enforce payment of a sum that is due will inevitably cause distress. We need to seek a balance between the rights of creditors and the need to ensure that those rights are not enforced to the prejudice and undue distress of the debtor.One of the points that arose from Mr McConnell's earlier comments applies particularly to the enforcement of summary warrants, in which instance a debtor has no statutory right to apply for a time-to-pay direction or a time-to-pay order. Where it exists, that right is important for a party. However, creating that right is only the first step, as is frequently the case in consumer law. The law should ensure that the consumer is aware of those rights, and that he has the support and advice that will allow him to translate that right into a remedy. I want to make that point forcefully. The right of a debtor to apply for a time-to-pay direction, on the granting of a decree, or a time-to-pay order, following the execution of a charge, is meaningless unless support and advice are given to a debtor to translate that right into a remedy. The remedy is a time-to-pay direction or a time-to-pay order, which will prevent the consequent steps of a poinding and warrant sale being carried out.I feel—and this point is made in my committee's comments on this bill—that there should be a greater focus on rights to pay by instalments, which apply when a judgment or decree is being enforced. A time-to-pay arrangement might ameliorate the perceived consequences of the current enforcement regime, particularly in relation to summary warrants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 604845,
      "EditedText": "No, it does not affect children."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 604849,
      "EditedText": "That question should be addressed to councils rather than to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 604850,
      "EditedText": "You have no specific statistics on that issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 604859,
      "EditedText": "So far, we have concentrated on the admitted problems at the council end. However, your paper also deals with divorce, where people are trying to recover aliment or a capital sum. The paper also refers to small traders. Can you comment on the problems that the abolition of the remedy might cause for people in those situations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 604861,
      "EditedText": "What about my other point, on divorce?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 604863,
      "EditedText": "Do poindings and warrant sales help in those problematic areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 604874,
      "EditedText": "No. We took an objective view of the raft of debtor protection measures that have been enacted by the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 and concluded that they provide the protection to which we referred in our paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 604875,
      "EditedText": "Is it a subjective view rather than an objective one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 604876,
      "EditedText": "We would say that it is an objective view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 604878,
      "EditedText": "We are saying that the nature and extent of the debtor protection measures in the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 provide adequate protection for the poor and vulnerable in our society."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 604882,
      "EditedText": "You may not agree with the answer that I gave, but I have given it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 604884,
      "EditedText": "No. They may not settle their debt—they may come to an arrangement to repay it in a sensible way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 604890,
      "EditedText": "Presumably, you will be hearing evidence from creditors and other interested parties who will be able to provide you with the evidence that you require. The Law Society takes a neutral view on law reform."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 604893,
      "EditedText": "It is obvious that you cannot substantiate that statement. Does the Law Society care about the social consequences of poindings and warrant sales?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604900",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 604900,
      "EditedText": "Your submission states that the bill is piecemeal and somewhat ill-conceived. What are your views on the introduction of an amendment that would enshrine the substance of the bill—the abolition of poindings and warrant sales—but make a distinction between personal and domestic debt? Should we pursue that idea? Do you feel that the existing legislation is acceptable or that we could improve the legislation, for example by extending the definition of goods that cannot be removed?I would like to know about your perception of creditors. Your submission states that the abolition of poinding and warrant sales will lead to,\"alternative and questionable methods of collection never previously tolerated in Scotland but known to exist in other jurisdictions\".How can the Law Society know what creditors are thinking? Are you saying that that is a threat, and that, because of it, we should not make a change that is morally right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 604903,
      "EditedText": "It is certainly a perception that arises from my experience—I advise a number of parties on how to procure payment of sums that are due to them—and from my understanding of human nature when money is due to a person and there is no legal measure to get it. The law is there to ensure that inappropriate recovery techniques are not applied. That should be the function of the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 604906,
      "EditedText": "That is the issue of balance that we talked about. You asked whether there was evidence of unjustified enforcement techniques. I service the consumer law committee; the Sunday before that committee looked at the subject that we are talking about—before Mr Sheridan's bill was published—an article was published in The Sunday Times magazine about people called Blair. One of the people called Blair lived in Possilpark in Glasgow and explained to the reporter how getting money from \"the loan man\" was a feature of her life. I might be maligning the loan man, but I am not sure that he would be gentle in the recovery of that loan. I cannot say whether the story was true, but if the report was anything to go by, it could be the case that some people try to recover debts without regard to the law."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 604907,
      "EditedText": "That should not be used as an excuse for not making a morally right change to the law. Perhaps we need to examine measures such as developing credit unions, something about which I feel passionate and on which I have a lodged a motion in the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 604914,
      "EditedText": "Could I just say that, under the previous legislation—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 604918,
      "EditedText": "Mr McConnell, the question is straightforward. What statistical evidence do you have to support that statement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 604919,
      "EditedText": "We followed on from the legislation—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 604922,
      "EditedText": "I will try to answer your question, Mr Quinan.Under the previous legislation, accountants were in a position to apply to the court for sequestration. The Government picked up the tab for the cost of the procedure and there was an explosion of applications for sequestration. I do not have the financial statistics that you are asking for, but we can get them for you. The power to make applications to the court in the period in which easy sequestration was allowed was used by large firms of accountants who built up good practices on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 604929,
      "EditedText": "Another statement from the Scottish Office central research unit says:\"Although poindings had been used in a number of cases, actual warrant sales were rare. There was in fact a degree of reluctance to instruct this diligence, particularly the final stage, and some who had been unaware that this course of action had been taken to enforce their decree were unhappy that the diligence had been used.\"In reality, creditors make use of the threat element and do not carry the process through. That can be proved statistically."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 604934,
      "EditedText": "That might to be examined, particularly with regard to summary warrants. The threat might be more coercive than otherwise where poinding and a warrant sale have been threatened and where the affected party does not have a legal right to pay by instalments. In normal circumstances, the party might say, \"I cannot pay this amount and as of right under sections 1 and 5 of the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 I am entitled to make payment of only such instalments as I can afford, even if that is only £1 a week.\" People need to be empowered and know their rights; however, such a right does not apply to summary warrants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 604936,
      "EditedText": "The procedure is coercive, as many forms of judicial procedure are. It is coercive to put someone in prison who has committed a serious assault. However, that does not mean that that person should not go to prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 604937,
      "EditedText": "I have been listening carefully to your comments, Mr Johnstone, and you have used phrases such as \"undue distress\" and \"unreasonable distress\". How would you define those phrases?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 604943,
      "EditedText": "You have touched on a number of possible improvements, such as instalments and time to pay, and have mentioned citizens advice bureaux and Money Advice Scotland. What we need is a more effective mediation framework involving those organisations to make the process more humane and civilised and to reduce undue distress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 604946,
      "EditedText": "It is perhaps difficult to categorise commercial and—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 604947,
      "EditedText": "I did not ask about that; I will come to that question in a minute. Why would it be inequitable to have a distinction between commercial and consumer debts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 604951,
      "EditedText": "Well, let us discuss it now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 604954,
      "EditedText": "Blurred is probably a better word."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 604956,
      "EditedText": "We were concerned that, in certain circumstances, the bill might encourage a culture of non-payment, which might impact on small businesses. Frank Johnstone mentioned the self-employed joiner with a wife and two children. If he is not paid for a £2,000 or £3,000 contract, that has a huge impact on him and his family. That was behind Frank's point about finding an equitable balance between various parties while maintaining and enhancing debtor protection measures. The Law Society of Scotland would agree with that approach. We are not saying that the 1987 act is cast in stone, is perfect and should never be changed. Such legislation should always be under review and the Law Society is not averse to that process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 604959,
      "EditedText": "You did not say that it was a concern—your document says:\"in combating the present culture of non-payment.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 604961,
      "EditedText": "Hang on a second. I just want to get this straight. A problem that we have had with this document is that—like some of our worst newspapers—it is a mixture of fact and opinion. I want to find out which is which. We do not want to get like the tabloids, or even like The Scotsman.By using the phrase \"the present culture of non-payment\" you make a blanket charge, suggesting that such a culture is widespread. The quotation you use to back that charge up does not back it up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 604962,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps it was inelegantly phrased, but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 604963,
      "EditedText": "Inaccurately phrased would be a better description."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 604967,
      "EditedText": "Mr Johnstone, you will appreciate that our requirement at this stage is to look at this matter with no preconceived ideas and in a comparatively detached manner. That said, it would clearly be a unanimously held view round this table that we do not want to see people falling into the hands of illegal money lenders. That is a failure of the current system. To repeat your very delicate and appropriate phrase, \"inappropriate recovery techniques\" might be used. That being the case, does the Law Society feel that there should be a beefing up of the Consumer Protection Act 1987 and the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987?I appreciate that you dealt with this earlier, but there should be a strengthening of the counselling process under both of those pieces of legislation so that when someone takes on a debt, they are aware of the consequences of any failure to fulfil the terms of that debt. There should also be a clear indication, when a notice is served under the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987, that people have the opportunity to apply to pay by instalments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 604973,
      "EditedText": "Many of the questions that I wanted to ask have already been asked, so I will not repeat them.From the evidence that the committee has heard and read, I do not think that it can be argued that poindings and warrant sales are a successful way of collecting debt. I say that because the evidence seems to show that they recover very little. A small percentage is recovered, but the people involved have all the stress and worry that go with them.Regarding sequestration, you mentioned in your document that you felt that a culture was created in which accountants exploited the Bankruptcy (Scotland) Act 1985. The fact that accountants received fees meant that they were using it as a way to make money. The Law Society's diligence committee is opposed to the bill. I think that most of us agree that poindings and warrant sales are not a very successful way to recover debt because they recover such a small percentage. Do you think that perhaps the opposition coming from your committee and presumably your members therein is because the only people who seem to make money out of poindings and warrant sales are the sheriff officers and the lawyers who are involved? Am I wrong to come to that conclusion? Could you comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 604974,
      "EditedText": "You are getting a hard time today, are you not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 604978,
      "EditedText": "Would you be able to get hold of that information for the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 604979,
      "EditedText": "The Law Society would have difficulty doing that, but I hope that that kind of information might come to light as a result of the Scottish Law Commission's inquiries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 604980,
      "EditedText": "Most of the points have been covered, but I want to raise two particular issues, one of which has been touched on. In your submission, you make the point:\"The effectiveness of our system of issuing court degrees with an automatic warrant for poinding to proceed after the expiry of a charge . . . should not be judged by the poindings that are carried out; but by those which are not needed.\"That underpins your whole argument, which is that it is the threat that is effective rather than the number of poindings, or indeed warrant sales, that are carried out. I want to relate that to a comment that you made in paragraph 5.2 of your submission, which has already been referred to by Karen Whitefield. You said that \"alternative and questionable methods of collection never previously tolerated in Scotland but known to exist in other jurisdictions could become more widespread.\"We can use our imagination on what those methods of collection might be. Given that they are known to exist in other jurisdictions, could you outline what they are because, presumably, they are legal? That is my interpretation of what you are referring to in paragraph 5.2. If that is not the case, will you elucidate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 604982,
      "EditedText": "Threatening violence is clearly not legal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 604986,
      "EditedText": "I am a bit concerned that when one scratches the surface of a number of aspects of your submission, they prove to be anecdotal. You say that you are on a learning curve, but a number of people round the table are feeling that a submission to the committee should be more soundly based. I hope that that will be the case in future, because most people would say that the Law Society of Scotland speaks with an authoritative voice. We regard you as being an authority on legal matters. It is not terribly helpful to find that some aspects of your submission are anecdotal or based on your impressions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 604990,
      "EditedText": "The convention does not cover only European countries; its scope is broader than that. Given that it has been in existence for some time, are you aware of any cases in which similar actions against people who have not paid debts have been challenged under the convention?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 604991,
      "EditedText": "The commission's document examines a few cases. The first is James and Others v United Kingdom in 1996. The second is Gasus Dosier und Fordertechnik GmbH v the Netherlands in 1995. The third is K v Sweden, which was an application to the European Commission. There are cases that have been considered, and—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 604993,
      "EditedText": "I know that your reading is extensive, Mr Watson, and I would not be surprised if you were more aware of those cases, and better able to pronounce some of the names, than I am."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 604994,
      "EditedText": "I hope that the Official Report will record the laughter at that point. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 604995,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Mr Clancy. We will read your document because we will consider this matter in some depth. I have one more question before I draw matters to a conclusion and give the committee five minutes to review the situation. You seem to recognise that poindings and warrant sales may not be appropriate for people who are particularly impoverished. Nevertheless, some people who have means evade their debts and there must be a remedy that allows creditors to pursue them. I am sure that a lot of impoverished people agree with that. The advice agencies that you have mentioned have given evidence to this committee. They seem to favour the bill. They said that other means, such as the arrestment of wages, are more acceptable ways of pursuing people who have means. In most cases, people have access to their means but, if people are trying to avoid settling a divorce case, for example, or are malevolently not paying debts that they are capable of paying, it should be possible to get access to their assets without recourse to this legislation. Is that the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 604998,
      "EditedText": "A simple example is the case of a man who was employed offshore by a Norwegian company and whose wages could not be arrested because the obligation to pay those wages arose in a different jurisdiction. He had no bank account but he had a very expensive car, and his wife wanted to enforce an award. As Frank Johnstone said, abolishing poindings and warrant sales might be throwing out the baby with the bath water in cases such as that one. There are circumstances in which that remedy is justifiable, but it must be used in a way that protects the poor and vulnerable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 605003,
      "EditedText": "That would be extremely helpful. The Law Society of Scotland is free to make a further submission, but I recommend that the committee collect its views and write to you requesting a further written submission, rather than oral evidence. If you think that there are points that we have missed in today's discussion, you can submit further evidence.We now move to a five-minute discussion about how to tackle the next stage of our deliberations. You are welcome to stay, but I can understand that you may want to have a break. I thank you formally for your evidence and the exchange of views. It has helped our consideration of the bill and, although some members were robust in their questioning, witnesses should not take it personally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 605012,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned about yesterday's announcement that a massive discussion paper is to be published and that there is to be an inquiry into poindings and warrant sales that are covered by the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987. It seems to me that that action has all the hallmarks of an attempt to undermine and postpone this bill. The committee should be aware of that and keep its focus on poindings and warrant sales and whether they can be justified in law—that is all that this bill is about. We should be aware that other forces are trying to delay the bill getting on to the statute book."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 605015,
      "EditedText": "No, it will give evidence to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 605016,
      "EditedText": "While that organisation may be going to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, Cathie makes a valid point. As a member of this committee, I would like the opportunity to question the sheriff officers and the messengers-at-arms, as they call themselves. We have rightly agreed that we will not ask any organisation to give evidence to more than one committee, but it would be useful if Martin Verity would circulate the dates of when those organisations will give evidence to other committees. With the agreement and permission of the other two conveners who are involved, we would get the opportunity to ask questions at their meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C605019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 605019,
      "EditedText": "We seem to come back regularly to the example of the self-employed plumber, in terms of commercial debts. We need more evidence on that aspect of the bill, as I am not convinced that it is impossible to draw a distinction between the two types of debt. I know that the oral evidence sessions have been divided up so that we hear from witnesses who are for the bill and from those who are against it, so that there is a balance. Convener, are you sure that that is happening?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 605024,
      "EditedText": "That is why the Law Society was at our committee—otherwise we were going to hear evidence from people who support the bill, such as the agencies that would naturally fall within our remit, while the Justice and Home Affairs Committee would have heard the other witnesses. We wanted to get a balance so that it did not appear that one committee supported the bill and another committee opposed it. We thought that that approach would be particularly unhelpful. Our negotiations were quite straightforward; there were no problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 605029,
      "EditedText": "Okay. The other big issue is who will give that evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 605032,
      "EditedText": "We will have that debate—Martin has been pursuing that issue and has some information on it. We will have a quick break for a couple of minutes and then we will move on to the item on housing."
    },
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  },
  {
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      "ContributionID": 605034,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C605037",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 605037,
      "EditedText": "The tenants were fairly clear that there had been a lack of consultation. It is difficult to see how that could be anecdotal as, after all, they are the tenants. We would be better to get clarification from the witnesses from Glasgow City Council. From experience, I am aware that there was some consultation—for example, information was circulated to all tenants at one stage. However, it is for Glasgow City Council to justify its standpoint on that matter. If tenants say that there is a lack of consultation, we should accept that that is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 605038,
      "EditedText": "With all due respect, Bill, that is not what I meant—I am not questioning their conclusions. I am sure that that was their experience. However, which areas was the Scottish Tenants Organisation referring to? What consultation exercises had been undertaken? Did it prefer some methods to others?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 605040,
      "EditedText": "Both you and Bill are right, convener. By speaking to some of the trade unions that have been involved, we have learned since the last meeting that the original proposal for Glasgow—the option 2, single stock transfer proposal with which we are all familiar—is being re-examined.The new steering group to advise the Scottish Executive has been established, but it has neither tenant nor trade union representatives, which is cause for concern. Perhaps we could write to the Minister for Communities to ask her to give us evidence about the steering group—who is on it, why they are on it and why there are no tenant or trade union representatives. I would also like to ask her why new consultants have been appointed. It appears that Ernst and Young has been appointed to carry out another feasibility study—perhaps on another model altogether—into the transfer of Glasgow's housing stock. Perhaps we could ask for access to the reports that Ernst and Young provides to the steering group. People with whom I have spoken, particularly in Glasgow, are concerned that the ball game is changing midstream and that no one has been told exactly what is happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C605041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 605041,
      "EditedText": "During last week's meeting, I think I said that I had been involved with tenants' organisations for a long time. Initiatives succeed only when tenants really want change—whether it is a transfer to a housing association or whatever. I was concerned that the evidence appeared to indicate that tenants were locked out and not involved in the process.I would be concerned if the committee considered only the Glasgow situation. I thought that we were clear that we are considering stock transfer as a principle and that, if we changed the way in which the consultation process operates in order to involve tenants more, the committee would have succeeded. However, there is a procedure for consulting tenants, which one of the tenants highlighted—I have forgotten the name of the booklet that describes it. The evidence that we heard last week was that tenants were not being allowed that consultation and involvement.It is not the role of this committee to scrutinise in detail what is happening in Glasgow. We can address the issue in the wider sense, but tenants will make their decision and elected representatives on Glasgow City Council will make a decision in the light of tenants' wishes. Our role is not to get involved too deeply in the Glasgow issue. We must address the issue on a Scotland-wide basis and we should take evidence from a broad cross-section of the people who are involved throughout Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 605042,
      "EditedText": "I agree. The other night, I was in East Renfrewshire. Tenants there were making similar complaints about the lack of participation in the process. We must take on board the fact that we are talking about the process throughout Scotland. There will be variations, but one of the jobs of this committee is to ensure that the process is democratic, open and accountable throughout Scotland. Cathie Craigie is right; we must not confine ourselves to Glasgow. We must look at the urban and rural pictures, because those are different situations.The issue goes further than exclusion of tenants from the process. The feedback given to the committee, and that given elsewhere, seems to indicate that tenants feel that stock transfer is being imposed on them and that it almost does not matter what their views are because some kind of stock transfer will be imposed on them. They feel that the only debate is about what kind of stock transfer it will be.Regarding Glasgow, there are concerns about how the Minister for Communities can be impartial as chair of the steering group. Like John McAllion, I think that we are getting to the stage when we need to bring the minister to the committee—probably towards the end of January—to question her extensively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 605050,
      "EditedText": "I will clarify Keith's point, because there is concern that we set ourselves courses of action that we keep changing. The committee decided to appoint a reporter on housing issues who, properly, has liaised with other members and interests and drawn up a phased programme of work, which we need to consider.Our view is that this is not a formal inquiry—in terms of the parliamentary definition of an inquiry—but the taking of evidence relating to current circumstances in housing. That is appropriate in the meantime, but it does not mean that we will not review the matter at a later stage. When the issue of housing transfers is so fluid, tying ourselves down to a formal inquiry is not necessarily appropriate. That does not stop the committee having a special adviser, which issue we will address later in the meeting.For the record, there is a difference between briefing sessions and evidence sessions. Most of us are now aware of that. We have agreed to have a number of informal briefing sessions to bring us up to speed on some issues. The briefings are informal because they are given by the Scottish Parliament information centre. As I understand it, the committee can take evidence that is not part of an inquiry if it decides that it wishes to investigate a particular issue.John McAllion's report recommended that we initiate an investigation into housing stock transfers. We should continue as John proposes—amending our investigation as issues develop—and then, perhaps, consider a formal inquiry, if that is appropriate. I am keen not to change that approach, because we are trying to stick to a work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C605051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 605051,
      "EditedText": "I am not asking you to change it, but we do tend to make our procedures on the hoof."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "ContributionID": 605054,
      "EditedText": "I have some sympathy with what Keith said, because we must be careful to maintain focus. I agree with Cathie Craigie: it is not our job to look into the precise details of all the arrangements for housing stock transfer in Scotland. We should be examining the criteria that we are trying to apply. Having said that, the stock transfer in Glasgow is such a major proposal that we must go into it in a bit more detail. In the evidence that we took previously, for example, I was struck by the business of spending £17,500 per house. Clearly, we need more detailed information about the financial and structural viability of what has been proposed.Following the evidence of the housing association witnesses last week, I confess that I was left with severe doubts about the way in which the stock transfer was going ahead. Members may not be aware of it, but the Glasgow and West of Scotland Forum of Housing Associations produced a minority report on the Glasgow stock transfer proposition at an earlier stage. I know that things have moved on a bit since then, but the forum or the adviser might be asked to consider the criticisms in more detail, to determine whether criteria such as financial viability and consultation can be applied by the committee. Glasgow is a good example, in many ways, because of the sheer size of the project."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 562.0,
      "ContributionID": 605061,
      "EditedText": "Those items are on the agenda, but I do not know the time scale that would be involved. The committee needs the agreement of the Parliamentary Bureau. It can submit an instruction to the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body, which then contracts with an adviser and makes arrangements for an adviser to be appointed. I do not know how long that will take."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 566.0,
      "ContributionID": 605063,
      "EditedText": "That is what is laid down in standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 605066,
      "EditedText": "We will come to that later.John McAllion's suggestions are helpful. The criteria could come from the special adviser, and could evolve as we learn new things. They would give us some form of benchmarking.Some tenants who have been involved in successful stock transfers, and are positive about that experience, have moved from council housing into housing associations. However, those housing associations play a quite different role in regenerating communities. It is worth exploring housing in a social inclusion context. If there are arguments for stock transfer, that different role is one of the most powerful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 605071,
      "EditedText": "A part of the evidence with which I had difficulty was the notion that community housing associations are private sector organisations. That principle strikes at the heart of our investigation. Having spoken to people in the area that I represent, it is clear that they would not substantiate that view. I would like to explore that notion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 605074,
      "EditedText": "On the one hand, we are stuck for time on the housing issue, but we probably have a little more time for warrant sales."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 605075,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to go back to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 596.0,
      "ContributionID": 605078,
      "EditedText": "Do we know the timetable for that? Is it early spring? You are keeping an eye on them, are you not, Fiona?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 604.0,
      "ContributionID": 605082,
      "EditedText": "Let us not get bogged down in timetable issues—that is where this committee always goes off the rails. John McAllion should liaise with Martin Verity to come up with a sensible working timetable that is in line with the views that have been expressed today. Can you manage that, John?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 606.0,
      "ContributionID": 605083,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 605049,
      "EditedText": "May I come in on that point? When he put his paper forward, John McAllion was clear that the aspects of stock transfer that we should look at were housing finance and tenant participation, and whether the latter represented community empowerment. Those are discrete topics, and we have had evidence on them. John also proposed that we look at an urban area—which would be Glasgow, because it would be remiss of us not to examine the biggest landlord in western Europe—and rural areas. I suggest that we contact the seven authorities that are furthest down the line with stock transfer, and the tenants associations in those areas, to find out what their experiences are. With regard to John's recommendations, we can take oral evidence from Glasgow—which would be essential—and, perhaps, from a rural area as well.From the evidence that we have heard, the only other matter that we may wish to hear more about is lenders. We may also wish to hear from trade union staff. If we are to be useful in this debate, there will be a time—probably early in the new year—when we will have to be prepared to bring our thoughts together and make some comments, because stock transfers will be a moveable feast. Stock transfers are changing and developing as they progress. If the committee is to provide a useful service, we have to decide at what point in the process we can most usefully share the evidence that we have in the form of recommendations and reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.950035+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 605070,
      "EditedText": "We might not be comparing like with like. There is a world of difference between traditional small-scale transfers and the wholesale transfers that are currently on the cards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.9656621+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 605018,
      "EditedText": "Karen Whitefield asked about the impact of the bill on commercial debts, but we may be a wee bit light on the commercial aspects of the bill. If we want a rounded view of the bill, we should get more evidence on the credit aspects of commercial debt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.0585835+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18312,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 604792,
      "EditedText": "Will you take guidance from the committee on the basis and parameters on which we want you to have that discussion with David Marshall?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604786",
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    },
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      "ContributionID": 604786,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:03"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 604787,
      "EditedText": "I welcome everyone to the meeting. Thank you all for turning up."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 604791,
      "EditedText": "There are two separate points. There are issues with regard to the ministerial task forces working together that we should take an interest in. We should look at how we do that, and get some information.The issue regarding select committees is different. Rodger Evans circulated the information that we received from the Social Security Committee and the Scottish Affairs Committee. I asked Rodger to convene a meeting with me and David Marshall, the chairman of the Scottish Affairs Committee, so that we could determine our lines of interest, the degree of overlap between our committees and how we would take the matter forward. I would then bring the outcome of that meeting to this committee.A press report last week said that we were doing a joint investigation. That was a bit presumptuous on the part of the press, because we have not agreed to that. Clearly, it would be for this committee, not for me or the select committee, to decide whether to have a joint investigation. No agreement has been reached. I am in contact with David Marshall's office to try to arrange a meeting, because there are areas of interest that we may wish to pursue, and we should give that some consideration. However, no decisions will be taken without coming back to this committee.Are there any other issues regarding that matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18312,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 604794,
      "EditedText": "I endorse what you say, convener. The Scottish Affairs Committee's major inquiry currently is examining poverty in Scotland. Obviously, we have common ground with that committee and we should meet with it soon to discuss how it is addressing the issue and how we can learn from each other.We are interested in social security, and the Social Security Committee holds the Westminster Government to account on that matter. We have common ground with that committee as well. I am delighted that we are forging links with those committees, and I am happy for you to make arrangements and report back to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 604795,
      "EditedText": "So can I do that? If people have ideas, please submit them to me. I must state that the first meeting will be exploratory. It will not in any way pre-empt any decision making on the part of the committee.While we are on the subject, I draw to the attention of committee members the possible dinner arrangement that we have with the Social Security Committee next week. We can confirm arrangements for that by e-mail.The ministerial issue is also of interest to this committee, and I will ask the clerks to put that matter on the agenda so that we can be informed properly about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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      "ID": 18312,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 604798,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18312,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 604800,
      "EditedText": "We were advised at the previous meeting that Scottish Homes would write to us shortly, and that it was in discussion with the Scottish Executive about the bigger piece of evidence that Scottish Homes agreed to submit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18312,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 604803,
      "EditedText": "I declare my interest as a member of the Law Society of Scotland, which is not a financial interest in the context of today's proceedings, but is relevant and should be known to the committee."
    },
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  },
  {
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    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 604807,
      "EditedText": "You do not want to make any preliminary remarks?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 604808,
      "EditedText": "You have our submissions and, in other circumstances, questions are bubbling all the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 604809,
      "EditedText": "The Law Society paper raised a number of issues that members will pursue. I will ask a question on the diligence issue. One of the issues featured in the publicity surrounding this bill is that Scotland is unique in how it deals with this matter. In your paper you compare the situation here with that in England in relation to imprisonment. You also make other international comparisons in relation to enforcement. Do you have information about how often imprisonment is used in terms of the enforcement of debt in England? What are the different enforcement models internationally and how coercive are they?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 604811,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 was helpful in protecting the most vulnerable members of society?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 604817,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure, as I do not have the figures. I am not sure where the figures you mention come from, as my understanding was—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 604821,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether that is not a flaw in the summary warrant procedure. There is a requirement—and I am not unsympathetic to this being the case—to consider the person's position and come to some arrangement. One way of doing that is to allow the courts to reconsider the debt and to take into account the sum involved and the ability of the person to pay. That would take matters away from the sheriff officers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 604822,
      "EditedText": "According to the evidence given to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the evidence that this committee took from the Lothian Anti-Poverty Alliance, sheriff officers demand lump sums. That is how they implement summary warrants. The poor are being driven into the hands of creditors to get the sheriff officers off their backs. It is an inhumane and cruel system of getting people to pay debts. There are alternatives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 604824,
      "EditedText": "It does happen and Mr Mike Dailly, who is directly involved in the procedures, tells a very different story from the one that you tell."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 604828,
      "EditedText": "Are poindings and warrant sales used in other European Union countries?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 604832,
      "EditedText": "In which countries does that happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 604836,
      "EditedText": "I infer from your evidence that 39 countries do not allow it and that two do. I suggest that we should be on the side of the 39, not of the two."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 604847,
      "EditedText": "I recognise that that is a difficulty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 604851,
      "EditedText": "The Law Commission's report seemed to indicate that there was a filter- down system, and that creditors were anxious not to proceed to the final resort. Every effort was made to reach some kind of accommodation before that step was taken.Practically, creditors must consider the expense of legal proceedings—not just of diligences, but of the actual court proceedings. There is no point in incurring those costs unless there is some possibility of a return. It is as simple as that—it acts as a further brake on the taking of action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 604853,
      "EditedText": "There is provision in the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987, even when there is no challenge to the application to sell poinded effects. The sheriff can, off his own bat, read the papers and refuse to grant a warrant. I cannot speak for Frank Johnstone, but my experience is that sheriffs adopt that role—if they consider that the granting of a warrant sale would lead to an injustice, or would be unjustifiable, they will not grant it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 604855,
      "EditedText": "There is a difficulty in trying to identify and distinguish someone who cannot pay from someone who will not pay. If that were easy to do, the system of enforcement would be much more effective and efficient. Until that is the case, measures must be taken to allow a remedy to people who are entitled to redress. If there was adequate funding, a greater role could be played by citizens advice bureaux and organisations such as Money Advice Scotland, which advises debtors. The in-house sheriff court scheme in Edinburgh was perceived as a positive measure. There have been moves to extend the operation of that scheme. The sheriff officers are most effective when they can give advice on the remedies that are available to individuals and debtors. Unfortunately—as we would concede, in relation to the use of summary warrants—a debtor does not have the access to the remedy of a statutory entitlement to apply to pay by instalments the sum that is due."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 604856,
      "EditedText": "When poinding schedules are served on defenders, is any guidance or advice on approaching citizens advice bureaux, Money Advice centres and the like given to them to help sort out their financial affairs? Is anything positive done to try to advise them of their rights at that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 604866,
      "EditedText": "I would define those who are unemployed, have dependants and who have absolutely no ability to make any payment as poor and vulnerable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 604871,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that the Law Society does not have the statistical evidence to back up the statement that\"the rights of the poor and vulnerable in our society have absolute protection\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 604872,
      "EditedText": "No. It was an opinion based on the workings of the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 604873,
      "EditedText": "So that opinion is based on a total lack of evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 604877,
      "EditedText": "How can it be objective if there is no evidence to back it up? You are a lawyer—what would you think if I went into a courtroom with no evidence and said to the judge, \"I have an opinion, but I can't prove it, m'lud\"? You are telling me that you have no evidence to back up your statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 604879,
      "EditedText": "I will make two points on that. First, the statistical research that others have done shows that 75 per cent of people whose goods are poinded would come under any reasonable definition of poor and vulnerable. If you accept that, how can you state that\"the rights of the poor and vulnerable in our society have absolute protection\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 604881,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that you have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 604883,
      "EditedText": "Secondly, you seem to be trying to make the point that the poor and vulnerable are protected because the threat of poinding causes them to settle their debt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 604887,
      "EditedText": "That is precisely my point. You have no idea and no evidence, yet you submit written evidence that states twice that\"judged objectively the measure has worked in practice protecting, as it does, the poor and the vulnerable\".On page 1 of your submission you say that it is objective, yet you now admit that the statement on page 3 is subjective and that there is no evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 604888,
      "EditedText": "I have answered you as well as I can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 604892,
      "EditedText": "That statement was based on the protection measures in the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987, which prevented precisely the kind of action that is complained of in the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 604897,
      "EditedText": "I think that we all know that the occasions on which action is taken are few and far between. In effect, there is a bully-boys' charter and sheriff officers regularly act like bully-boys. They deliberately instil fear in people. It is clear from the evidence of our meeting on 17 November—some of that is anecdotal but the problem is widespread—that a significant number of sheriff officers act in breach of the procedures and powers, although they are not reported for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 604898,
      "EditedText": "There are two relevant matters: the supervision of the sheriff principal; and the position of the local authority, which is much involved in this area, as it employs sheriff officers and has the right to take action against them if it considers that unjustifiable tactics have been utilised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 604899,
      "EditedText": "Following on from that important point, we need to make a distinction between the rights and obligations that are enshrined in the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 and the way in which the procedures created by that act may be applied. Certainly, any solicitor advising a responsible creditor would have nothing to do with a sheriff officer who acted improperly or who brought undue pressure to bear, outwith the terms of the act. In my experience, the act has not been a bully-boys' charter. On the contrary, the act provides a framework that seeks to create an equitable balance between the rights of creditors and debtors. If there is an issue as to how sheriff officers implement the procedures that were put in place by the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987, it should be examined carefully and scrutinised. My understanding of the way in which this act operates and is enforced by sheriff officers is that bully-boy tactics are not used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 604902,
      "EditedText": "Where is your evidence for that? Have you spoken to creditors? Have they made representations to you, or is it just your perception?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604904",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 604904,
      "EditedText": "That was one reason why the act was brought in. A commission examined diligence and amended the law as it was before 1987 because the law was found wanting. The fact that a law was passed in 1987 does not mean that it is appropriate for 1999 or 2000, however. Circumstances change and society changes.On your point about unjustified enforcement techniques, it used to be completely justified to sell property at the house of the debtor; nowadays, that is an unjustified enforcement technique because the law was changed in 1987. One can perceive an evolution of the law in tandem with changes in society. I think that Frank Johnstone is trying to show that the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 is not perfect—it can be improved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 604908,
      "EditedText": "Our position is that we think that, in some circumstances, the remedy is justifiable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 604911,
      "EditedText": "Yes it is; that is what I am asking you about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 604912,
      "EditedText": "The theory behind sequestration is that it provides people with the opportunity to start with a clean slate—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 604913,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for interrupting, Mr Clancy, but you say in your submission that\"experience shows that in general debtors are no longer concerned by the threat of sequestration\"On what statistical information was that statement based?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 604917,
      "EditedText": "What was behind that was that there was provision—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 604924,
      "EditedText": "The basis is purely anecdotal. I have personal experience of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 604925,
      "EditedText": "Given that you represent the Law Society of Scotland, I would have expected that your statements would be backed up by statistics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 604926,
      "EditedText": "We all know the difficulty of collating such information. It is expensive to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 604930,
      "EditedText": "You are referring to the Scottish Office document; I am not. A threat is involved in a number of the stages. A creditor does not want to pursue a poinding or a warrant sale; they want to be paid as soon as possible. They do not want to incur legal expense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 604931,
      "EditedText": "So Alex Neil was correct to say that this means of debt recovery uses bully-boy tactics. It threatens debtors, a fact that is borne out by the statistics. It is a means of bullying people, principally the poor and vulnerable.I suggest that, in the broader sense, warrant sales are an inefficient means by which to recover debt. Another statement from the Scottish Office central research unit says:\"Overall, warrant sales instructed against private individuals recovered 22% of the total outstanding debt . . . However, no sale recovered the outstanding debt and 82% made no contribution to the original debt and only partly paid off the expenses of the case.\"Effectively, then, poindings and warrant sales do nothing but keep sheriff officers in business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 604932,
      "EditedText": "I reject your suggestion that it is a bully-boy measure. The Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 does not constitute a bully-boy charter. It is not perfect and aspects of it should be reviewed. Any system of enforcement that seeks to transfer an asset from one party who does not want that to happen to a party that is entitled to receive it is coercive.There would be no need for legal proceedings if payment could be procured voluntarily, which does not mean that the methods used have been unlawful or intimidatory. However, they are part of the due process of law as approved by Parliament. Although that does not mean to say that this Parliament could not focus on or improve certain procedures, I reject the suggestion that the 1987 act is a bully-boy's charter. It is coercive, but it is not founded on a system of threats."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 604938,
      "EditedText": "It is as hard to define those terms as it is to distinguish between a \"can't pay\" and a \"won't pay\". If we knew the answer to that question, life would be a lot easier and our system of enforcement would be more efficient for the creditor and fairer for the debtor.This is a difficult question. Vulnerable and poor people should be protected. A number of protections are built into the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987. However, that does not mean that the legislation is perfect and should not be reviewed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 604939,
      "EditedText": "Do you accept that the law's responsibility or duty—whichever phrase you care to use—is not just to ensure debt recovery but to minimise distress?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 604944,
      "EditedText": "I genuinely welcome that comment. Any system of enforcement must involve an equitable balance. If we were to replace the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 and create new rights, the meaningful test would be the translation of those rights into a remedy for a creditor who is due money and a debtor who owes money to ensure that a debtor's individual rights are not abused through harassment or intimidation. We need to create a balanced system. It is not sufficient to create new rights if people do not have access to good, meaningful and local advice. Such advice does not need to come from lawyers. Very competent trading standards officers, citizens advice bureau staff and money advisers are more than capable of dealing with those issues. A system of rights without the ability to translate such rights into a remedy is meaningless—it is only window-dressing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 604948,
      "EditedText": "When we discussed the matter, it seemed difficult to distinguish between commercial and consumer debts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 604950,
      "EditedText": "We wondered about that; the matter is worthy of discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 604953,
      "EditedText": "The issue could be blurred."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 604957,
      "EditedText": "I have one final point. On page 4 of your submission, you mention a culture of non-payment. You make a blanket charge about the present culture of non-payment and then quote a Convention of Scottish Local Authorities document written by Henry McLeish and Keith Geddes. However, that quotation does not mention a present culture of non-payment; it talks about\"a residual problem in some areas of a culture of non-payment of local taxes\".Do you have any evidence for this so-called present culture of non-payment? The quote mentions difficulties in the early 1990s and makes it clear that such a culture now exists only in residual pockets. You are making it into a blanket situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 604958,
      "EditedText": "We are saying that it is a concern and that there is a possibility that it could develop."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 604960,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 604964,
      "EditedText": "This paper was produced at little or no notice. I do not know how long the consultation period was, but the paper had to be put together very quickly. That is not an excuse, but we had little or no time to meet as committees to discuss this before putting forward papers. We knew that the papers would be challenged, but we thought that they would form the basis of a discussion of our concerns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 604966,
      "EditedText": "This is a very new situation for us. We are still finding our way with the Scottish Parliament and how it works and with what the Law Society's role could be in these matters. Today has been an interesting experience for us—Laughter.—but we will come away having learnt from it.We want to open up a debate. Not for a moment do we say that we have wisdom on our side. We have some experience in these matters, but not for a moment do we say that we are right in everything we submit. The world might be better if there were fewer black and white propositions and a recognition that there are grey areas that are open for discussion and debate in a reasoned way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 604968,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of interesting points there. The first related to extortionate credit agreements, or loan sharking. Extortionate credit agreements are dealt with by sections 137 to 140 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Those sections are generally perceived as not having provided adequate protection for vulnerable people who have entered into credit agreements that are deemed to be excessive. The Office of Fair Trading is carrying out a review of those sections with a view to having a more meaningful remedy that will allow any such agreements to be rendered void or unenforceable.There is a move away from the concept of extortionate credit agreements which, for a number of reasons, were very difficult to define, towards unjust credit transactions. That may assist consumers. Until consumers have meaningful advice on their rights, there will be difficulties. Some steps can be taken by giving \"wealth warnings\" when agreements are entered into. There must be an obligation on the creditor to take steps to appraise what indebtedness will mean for the borrower, in terms of interest, expenses and repayments; and there must be an equal obligation on the borrower to take reasonable steps to ascertain those things for himself. Advice should be made available in clear and intelligible language.If I have not dealt with any of your points, please remind me of them and I will be happy to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 604976,
      "EditedText": "Do you have any information about the percentage of the debt that is recovered in the case of small businesses in which one partner is undergoing a divorce settlement? You cited a small business that was owed £2,000. What kind of percentage are you recovering?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 604981,
      "EditedText": "It is essentially anecdotal evidence, which related to certain practices in London that we came across in Scotland. The important procedure was within a judicial framework and supervised by the courts. There was a system whereby people were threatened, sometimes with violence, to make payment. We raised the concern about alternative forms of recovery."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 604985,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604989",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 604989,
      "EditedText": "No. The convention will apply to this legislation if it is passed by the Parliament. Under section 29 of the Scotland Act 1998, the Parliament can legislate only within certain specified constraints, one of which is that it must comply with the ECHR. The convention has been capable of being used since the UK signed up to it in 1967 and challenges in relation to issues around the issue of poindings and warrant sales could have gone before the United Nations Commission of Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. What makes a difference is that under section 29, if an act of the Scottish Parliament contravenes the convention, it is not law. That is the phraseology used in the Act. Some aspects of the convention concern the right to peaceable enjoyment of possessions. The Scottish Law Commission goes into that in some depth. In the time allowed, it may be appropriate to direct the committee to the provisions of the SLC's discussion paper, which was published yesterday. Paragraphs 269 to 275 cover the right to peaceable enjoyment of possessions, the right to respect for private life, family and home, and the right to a fair and public hearing. There are ECHR implications, and I refer members to the SLC document for a full summary of the provisions that apply."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604996",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 604996,
      "EditedText": "Sequestration liberates assets globally for all creditors, rather than for one creditor. Is that what you meant?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 604999,
      "EditedText": "Will the Official Report of this meeting show that the Law Society of Scotland is opposed to this bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605002",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 605002,
      "EditedText": "Today's discussion has identified a number of areas in which the legislation could be improved. Would the witnesses welcome the opportunity to come back to the committee with more precise details? Summary warrants and advice agencies have been discussed, but we might want to hear more about those issues."
    },
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  },
  {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 605006,
      "EditedText": "We hope you will invite us back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 605008,
      "EditedText": "We are very inclusive.I will continue with the meeting. There has been a request for a short comfort break but, before we move on, can we collate the information we have received? For the next five minutes, we will discuss how to progress this issue. Given the number of points that emerged this morning, it would be helpful to draw together a short paper from today's discussions and to circulate that informally to members by e-mail. We will need to ask for more evidence, as it has emerged that we need clarification about some of the statistics. We also need facts about the systems in other countries, about summary warrants and about the review process. I would like a bit more detail to clarify that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 605009,
      "EditedText": "Could Martin Verity circulate a copy of the report that the Law Commission produced yesterday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 605010,
      "EditedText": "There are overlap issues with reserved powers. For example, can we touch on the Inland Revenue's powers? I would like guidance and clarification on that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 605011,
      "EditedText": "That matter will arise also when we talk about the presentation from the Department of Social Security."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 605017,
      "EditedText": "That is agreed already. The only reason that is not done is the clash of times and the committees' work loads. We have a clear invitation to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee's meeting—we can participate in it. To follow on from that point, an issue arose about how many complaints had been made to the sheriff principal. We could formally inquire what those complaints were and how many there were."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 605027,
      "EditedText": "Will we have a separate discussion on the evidence from the Department of Social Security?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 605028,
      "EditedText": "I was going to raise the question of when to invite the DSS under future business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605030",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 605030,
      "EditedText": "We will discuss that under future business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 605031,
      "EditedText": "Because this is a policy issue, we must ensure that ministers give that evidence, rather than junior officials."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C605033",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 605033,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 605043,
      "EditedText": "That is timetabled for the end of January or the beginning of February."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605045",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 605045,
      "EditedText": "There was a parliamentary answer about that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 542.0,
      "ContributionID": 605052,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that is fair, Keith."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C605053",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 544.0,
      "ContributionID": 605053,
      "EditedText": "Okay, but it would be helpful to learn from this situation. I am not asking for anything to be changed. I am trying to be constructive. We have a rapporteur, and I agree with that. For future inquires we must be absolutely clear about our objectives from the start. If we are to have a special adviser it will be helpful not to bring him in after we have started taking oral evidence. He should be brought in at the beginning. We can learn from that.I am concerned about the so-called distinction—which is pretty blurry—between briefings and evidence sessions. We can certainly have evidence sessions without producing a report, and that has been done before, but I am concerned that we tend to embark on oral evidence sessions and then bring in a special adviser. That is not the best way to proceed and I am just making that point with regard to what happens in future."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605055",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ContributionID": 605055,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful to consider the criteria."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605064",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 568.0,
      "ContributionID": 605064,
      "EditedText": "There is only one more meeting before Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 570.0,
      "ContributionID": 605065,
      "EditedText": "Have we prepared a job description?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 605073,
      "EditedText": "That could be added to the list, and we could see how it would fit into the timetable. Perhaps John McAllion could liaise with Martin Verity on that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
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      "EditedText": "There is a timetable for stock transfers; Glasgow is a big one, which is scheduled for November 2000. It will be difficult to change the minister's bill once it has been published and it will probably contain elements that will make stock transfers inevitable. We need to get something done on that before the Executive decides on the bill."
    },
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 12:37."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604789",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3358
    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "Thanks, Fiona. I will take advice from the clerk. Is it appropriate to deal with this matter now as a point of order, or should we put it on the agenda, Martin? I am happy to deal with it now."
    },
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  {
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      "ID": 3358
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 604796,
      "EditedText": "On a separate point, which I suppose I have to raise as a point of order, this week's agenda does not have action items on it. I am particularly keen to address the lack of progress by Scottish Homes on the comparative analysis of the funding that we requested. That was four or five weeks ago. Frankly, in the light of the resources that are available to Scottish Homes, and especially if it is in discussion with the Scottish Executive, I think that it is about time Scottish Homes got its finger out and replied to us."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18312,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 604797,
      "EditedText": "Was that parliamentary language?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 604801,
      "EditedText": "I think that we agreed, with regard to housing, that at some stage we want to take evidence from potential lenders. We need the information from Scottish Homes before we take evidence from the lenders, because it is relevant."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604802",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 604802,
      "EditedText": "We can address that matter when we reach item 2 on the agenda, which concerns housing stock transfers. We may need to ask for that information by a particular date. We will address any other housing matters under that item.Before we move on to item 1 and our discussion with the Law Society of Scotland, I ask for a declaration of interests from those committee members who are lawyers."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604804",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3358
    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 604804,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and that will be on the record.Are there any other declarations? There are none, so I thank committee members."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 1820,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 604805,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Michael Clancy, Frank Johnstone and Frank McConnell. Thank you for the paperwork that you submitted. It was helpful, and many of us found in useful in determining our lines of questioning. You have probably been told that we would like you to keep the introduction brief because most of the content will be covered in the question and answer session. You will get plenty of time to answer questions and give your views. We have scheduled quite a lot of time for this evidence. I thank the Law Society of Scotland for coming to give evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy (Law Society of Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 604806,
      "EditedText": "I am the director of the Law Society of Scotland who deals with law reform. I will explain what the Law Society is and why we are interested in the measure before the committee.The Law Society is established under an act of Parliament, the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980. Section 1 of that act states that the society's objectives are to promote the interests of the solicitors profession and the interests of the public in relation to that profession in Scotland. Therefore, we have taken an active interest in law reform issues over a long period of time. We comment on proposals for law reform, whether they come from Brussels, Westminster, this Parliament or any other source. Some members of the committee have already received documentation from us in other places, in relation to other measures.The broad nature of the solicitors profession in Scotland, with almost 10,000 members in practice on a range of issues, in both the public and private sectors, gives us an opportunity to engage in discussion on points of interest relating to the law. We thought it appropriate, when Mr Sheridan's bill was introduced, to make submissions both to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and to this committee.The Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee has received those submissions, which come from two committees of our society: first, the consumer law committee, which deals with matters of consumer law interest, and second, the diligence committee, which deals with matters relating to the enforcement of debt and court judgments.I will introduce my colleagues. Frank Johnstone is the convener of our consumer law committee and is a solicitor in practice in Glasgow. Frank McConnell is a member of our diligence committee and a solicitor in practice in Edinburgh. Before I get confused about the two Franks, I will hand them over to you.I do not think that an opening statement is necessarily what you want, so we are at your disposal if members want to launch into questions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 604812,
      "EditedText": "It was once suggested that it went too much in favour of debtor protection. I must say, after 12 years, that I think that the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 probably got it right on the raft of debtor protection measures that it introduced. I was on the rules council of the sheriff court, which made the regulations. We were keen on simple applications to every sheriff court in the country, which were free, giving the sheriff clerk a role in advising people who were under this kind of pressure to make application to the court to set aside enforcement procedures, of one sort or another, on a range of matters. That seems to work well in practice, so much so that it is virtually impossible, where the poor and vulnerable have debt, to enforce the decree by way of poinding and sale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604813",
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      "ID": 3358
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 604813,
      "EditedText": "This committee has had evidence that some clauses in that act are not at all well used. They may be there to protect the most vulnerable, but they are not used so the vulnerable do not feel protected. Is that a problem with the act that we should examine?"
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 604814,
      "EditedText": "There are debtor protection measures, which are used. I will distinguish between conventional decrees, or court decrees, and summary warrant, because underpinning this bill, which has raised this important issue, is the use of summary warrants by local authorities. That comes through strongly in the bill.In conventional diligence—conventional court procedure—any person being sued for debt has the right to fill in a simple form setting out their personal circumstances and making arrangements to pay the debt by instalments. My information from the Scottish Courts Administration is that, by and large, most creditors accept these time-to-pay directions, as they are called. That begins to manage the debt. If the offer is refused, the matter must come before a sheriff. From personal experience, I can say that sheriffs are sympathetic. If someone is earning so much, they can pay beyond a certain figure and sheriffs will grant decree payable by that figure.The protection goes beyond that, because after a decree has been granted and a charge served, which is an intimation to a debtor that a decree has been granted and it can be enforced, there is a further provision in conventional court actions, where a person can apply to the court for a time-to-pay order varying the original decree. Again, that is an opportunity to make payment. In practical terms, creditors recognise that and if, after a decree has been granted, someone demonstrates that they are unemployed and not in a position to pay the debt instantly, arrangements are made for the repayment of the debt.I said that there was a distinction between conventional debt and summary warrant. The difference—and this is where part of the problem might arise in relation to this bill—is that local authorities, Inland Revenue and HM Customs and Excise can use this summary warrant procedure. It is summary procedure and there is no due process of law. They put in a list to the sheriff and get a summary warrant. There is no service on them. There is no provision for the debtor to come to an arrangement with the local authority, Inland Revenue or HM Customs and Excise to make payment before the summary warrant.There is no encouragement, in one sense, to do that beyond what they may do as an institution in relation to their own credit control procedures. Once the summary warrant is granted there is no provision for a time-to-pay order. One of the things that came out of the evidence that the committee received from other sources was that, under a summary warrant, the debt becomes instantly payable as a matter of law. The whole sum is due and can be demanded. In practical terms, that ought not to happen.One of the ways to ensure a realistic approach to the problem would be to review the summary warrant procedure to see whether it offers a fair degree of debtor protection. Debtor protection has not been left out of the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987. All the debtor protection measures that apply to poindings and warrant sales also apply to summary warrants in the act, but there are certain areas of debtor protection in the early stages of the summary warrant procedure that are excluded in the act. That may be something that causes more real concern than poindings and warrant sales. However, I believe that the nature and extent of the measures in the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 give almost absolute protection to the poor and vulnerable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 604816,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in the fact that you do not think that poindings and warrant sales can be used against the poor and vulnerable. By far the majority of warrants issued through the courts are summary warrants. Of 23,000 poindings carried out last year, 16,000 were summary warrants. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 604823,
      "EditedText": "I cannot say more than I have said already. There may be a difficulty with the summary warrant procedure, which denies a poor person the opportunity to come to a sensible arrangement. However, I understand—I will not put it more strongly than that, as I am not directly involved—that there are service level arrangements between, for example, local authorities and sheriff officers. That means that sheriff officers who act on behalf of any local authority in Scotland are tightly controlled. If they depart from what was agreed with the local authority, even on things like the text of letters, they could lose their contract with the local authority. Local authorities therefore have a role in ensuring that the kind of thing that has been mentioned does not happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 604825,
      "EditedText": "I do not deny that that particular case may well have taken place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 604826,
      "EditedText": "You inferred to the committee that every European Union country has a means of attaching moveables. Are those systems the same as poindings and warrant sales, or are you talking about sequestration, which is also available to the courts in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 604829,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I can help. Paragraph 2.67 of the Scottish Law Commission's report, which was published yesterday, states:\"All the 41 other legal systems in Europe and the Commonwealth which we have so far been able to examine, however briefly, make available to unsecured creditors a system of attachment and sale of moveable property analogous to poinding and sale. Aspects of these are reviewed in the Appendix hereto.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 604831,
      "EditedText": "It happens in some other countries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 604835,
      "EditedText": "That evidence is not available in the report, so I cannot say whether or not that is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 604838,
      "EditedText": "I hope so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 604848,
      "EditedText": "I want to address two or three different issues. You have identified reasonably clearly the predominance of the council when there is enforcement. Are there statistics to show that there has been a change in the use of that diligence? I am thinking back to the poll tax campaign and to similar circumstances. Has there been a change in the number of diligences that are carried out by councils, following the difficulties that were experienced at the time of the poll tax?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 604843,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That fact must be recognised and addressed. Such action constitutes an invasion of privacy, although, paradoxically, a poinding and warrant sale is a private transaction, in the sense that it takes place within the home. Earnings arrestments or ordinary arrestments necessarily involve third parties. If an earnings arrestment is lodged with a local garage where the defender is a mechanic, the whole village will know that he has an earnings arrestment against his wages. That is necessarily distressing, and breaches his privacy. Paradoxically, a poinding and warrant sale, unlike pre-1987 action, is relatively private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 604852,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the technical aspect of proceeding to warrant sales. One of the criticisms that is made of warrant sales concerns the relative disproportion of the legal and sheriff officer's costs compared with the value of the surviving debt and its recovery. Do you have any information on the extent to which sheriffs would refuse warrants for sales because of the disproportionality of expenses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 604854,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pursue two other lines of inquiry. The first concerns the distinction that underlies some of the discussion about the \"cannot pay/can pay\" debate. Although some people try to avoid their debts, others are prevented from dealing with their debts by financial circumstances. Have you any feel for the balance between those two positions? Would it be advantageous to extend considerably the advice and guidance mechanisms that are available, such as the experiment that is on-going at Edinburgh sheriff court? Are there ways in which such mechanisms could be brought to bear more effectively on the warrant sale part of the procedure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 604857,
      "EditedText": "On all documentation that is served, there is a reference to the citizens advice bureau solicitor, but the information goes beyond that. Under the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987, the sheriff officer is under obligation to advise orally defenders of their rights to redeem goods, and of their right to challenge whether they should be poinded. In addition, a written statement of those rights is given. Frank Johnstone's point was that perhaps that is not enough. Perhaps there should be something beyond that, which would encourage people to challenge poindings, or to discuss them in a forum in which the matter could be resolved through counselling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 604858,
      "EditedText": "Under agreements that are regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, information is given to individual debtors and borrowers concerning their rights according to that act. Where a default occurs under a debt that is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act, the creditor must serve a default notice that must expire before he is entitled to take any steps. The default notice advises a debtor to take advice from a citizens advice bureau or a trading standards officer. Similar advice is given to debtors in the termination letters, which, under the Consumer Credit Act, must be served.I hope that I have already highlighted the difficulty of translating those rights into an effective remedy—that is at the core of the subject and it is an issue in which we have great interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 604860,
      "EditedText": "A small trader being owed money for whatever reason—perhaps he was supplied with defective goods or someone has failed to pay him—can be a source of acute financial concern to his whole family. As I commented earlier, it is inevitable, in any system of enforcement, that distress will be caused to those people who are being compelled to do something that they do not want to do—that is, pay money that they owe. If there is no remedy, the party that is due that money will suffer significant distress. The Law Society is concerned with ensuring that there is a balance between those interests and that an equitable remedy is available, which is not too harsh or unduly onerous. In many cases, it becomes an extremely personal issue—people want to see their rights translated into a remedy that will procure payment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 604862,
      "EditedText": "A practical example of the need for a remedy is where someone loses their job, is successful at an employment tribunal, and obtains an order. His employer, however, might be a self-employed plumber who lives in rented accommodation, runs his business on overdraft and whose only assets are moveable ones such as stock. There is a need for a remedy for the person who obtains an order in such circumstances—such cases are happening all over the country. Similarly, the divorced wife trying to recover a capital sum or aliment from her ex-husband needs a remedy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 604864,
      "EditedText": "They are sanctions—remedies—and ways in which one can enforce the right to payment of a capital sum. One might not choose to exercise that remedy, but the fact that it is there might facilitate payment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 604865,
      "EditedText": "I have several questions. I refer you to paragraph 4.2 of your submission, in which you state that\"the rights of the poor and vulnerable in our society have absolute protection\".What is your definition of poor and vulnerable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 604867,
      "EditedText": "Based on that definition, what percentage of the poindings—the 50,000 or so cases referred to paragraph 4.3—relate to people who are poor and vulnerable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 604868,
      "EditedText": "I could not give you an answer to that—I do not have access to that figure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 604869,
      "EditedText": "If you do not have access to that figure, how can you state that \"the rights of the poor and vulnerable in our society have absolute protection\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 604870,
      "EditedText": "The figures that we obtained from a certain amount of research indicated that, in relation to attempts to poind, the majority of people arranged to pay a weekly sum. Paradoxically, the very poor—those on benefits—have no way out in relation to local authority debt, because money is directly debited from their benefit. Such people lose £2.55 from their benefit payment to pay local authority tax. The very poor and vulnerable do not have a choice—they lose that money, which is a significant proportion of their income, from their benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 604880,
      "EditedText": "I have answered that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 604885,
      "EditedText": "Have you thought about how that arrangement is funded? Have you read the evidence that we received on 17 November? It is clear from that anecdotal and statistical evidence that, to meet the arrangement, many of those people, 75 per cent of whom are poor and vulnerable, get into another form of debt, usually with some kind of money lender. How can you say that that is protection for the poor and vulnerable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 604886,
      "EditedText": "I read the evidence, but I have no personal knowledge of what you describe, or of the incidence of such borrowing. I have no idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 604889,
      "EditedText": "I conclude from that that the Law Society has no evidence that the poor and vulnerable are protected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 604891,
      "EditedText": "My question relates to your evidence. Your submission stated that \"the rights of the poor and vulnerable in our society have absolute protection\".You are telling me that the Law Society has no evidence to substantiate that statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 604894,
      "EditedText": "The Law Society is very concerned that there should be an adequate remedy and accepts that, in a number of instances, a remedy must, inevitably, cause some distress. The remedy must ensure that the distress that is caused is not unreasonable and does not constitute harassment.We cannot comment on other evidence that this committee has received on particular instances of hardship—it was undoubtedly distressing to read those accounts. The Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 enshrines a right on the part of a debtor to apply for a time-to-pay direction or order. The difficulty is that the fact that the rights and obligations of those enforcing decrees are abused does not mean that the act fails—if somebody breaks the speed limit, it does not mean that the speed limit is wrong.I am genuinely concerned that people should have assistance, particularly in distressing situations where a poinding or warrant sale is about to take place; they should have it explained to them where that right exists—it does not exist in relation to summary warrant. Where it does exist, people have the right to pay by instalments, and should not be pressured into borrowing funds that they cannot afford to repay. That is deplorable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 604895,
      "EditedText": "The abuse of procedures and powers by sheriff officers is obvious from the evidence that we have received so far, as well as from our postbags. Can you tell me—anecdotally or statistically—how many times in the past two years any sheriff officer in Scotland has been reprimanded or disciplined for unlawful behaviour in terms of the abuse of procedures or powers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 604896,
      "EditedText": "The Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 makes provision for a disciplinary framework under which sheriff officers have to work. I understand that they are responsible to the sheriff principal. Complaints are made to the sheriff principal, who has power to remit them to a solicitor to investigate fully and then to take action. The Law Society does not have particular figures but, anecdotally, I know of one case in Grampian and the Highlands and Islands that went to the Court of Session; a sheriff officer was suspended by the lord ordinary for a disciplinary problem. The sheriff principal also has the power to suspend the commission of a sheriff officer for all time or for a period. People complain about sheriff officers, and investigations take place. As far as I know, sheriff officers are aware that their actions are subject to the supervision of the sheriff principal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 604901,
      "EditedText": "We welcome the opportunity of a review to ensure that the Debtors (Scotland) 1987 services properly the requirements of creditors, whether they are financial institutions or individuals seeking to enforce aliment payments or findings in their favour against employers following unfair dismissal. The law is there to serve society.In the consumer law paper, we have suggested that, if the remedy of poinding and warrant sales is removed, informal and completely uncontrolled collection techniques could replace it. We suggest that that is a possibility because we are concerned about it. I have no further comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 604905,
      "EditedText": "We must consider the issue of poindings and warrant sales. Are they failing our poor and vulnerable people? We should examine the effects of abolition to see whether abolition would improve the quality of such people's lives. We also need to examine the legislation, which should protect not only creditors but those who get themselves into unfortunate situations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 604909,
      "EditedText": "I want to direct my questions to Mr Clancy. In section 5 of your evidence, you state:\"With regard to sequestrations, experience shows that in general debtors are no longer concerned by the threat of sequestration and indeed in some instances encourage us to pursue that line as it is perceived by them as a way of writing off their debts and starting again.\"What statistical evidence do you have for that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 604910,
      "EditedText": "It is not a question of statistical evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 604915,
      "EditedText": "I am asking Mr Clancy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 604916,
      "EditedText": "I did not write the paragraph that you are talking about. Mr McConnell did."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 604920,
      "EditedText": "Mr McConnell—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 604921,
      "EditedText": "Lloyd, please let Mr McConnell answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 604923,
      "EditedText": "So the statement is unsubstantiated and is based purely on your experience. I would very much like to see the statistics, if you would supply them. You said that, in your experience, sheriffs frequently refuse to grant warrants. What is the basis for that statement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 604927,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Office central research unit did a rather good job of it. Mr Johnstone, you implied that the use of poinding and warrant sale did not constitute the use of threat by creditors. However, a paper from the central research unit, \"Legal Studies Research Findings No. 11\", states:\"Poindings and sales appear to be effective in as much as they could be used successfully as threats to elicit payment. However, where the threat was unsuccessful, creditors were of the view that the diligence itself was only effective in certain circumstances, particularly against commercial debtors.\"What comment would you make about that statement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 604928,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry if I have not expressed myself clearly, but I think that there is an element of threat in any enforcement. There is a threat that a debtor can be sued, be charged, be arrested or have their belongings poinded. At any stage, enforcement is necessary only because the debtor has not volunteered to make payments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 604933,
      "EditedText": "Mr Johnstone, everything that you have said is predicated on your reference to people who do not wish to pay their debts. Do you accept that, in relation to the 22 per cent of outstanding debt that warrant sales recover, the system is intimidatory for people who wish to pay their debts but are unable to? Do you accept that the system is based on threat and the use of threat?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 604935,
      "EditedText": "You quote the Scottish Law Commission's statement that\"the protracted process of debt recovery acts as a kind of filter\".That seems to be a defence of the current situation. However, does not the fact that this is a protracted process cause distress?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 604940,
      "EditedText": "Any legal system, while recognising the rights of a creditor, must also recognise that the method of enforcement must be reasonable and humane and must not cause undue or unreasonable distress. There is a very real argument that the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 seeks to achieve that in a number of areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 604941,
      "EditedText": "The act seeks to do that, but has it achieved it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 604942,
      "EditedText": "In some areas, perhaps not. That is why I welcome the Scottish Law Commission inquiry into poindings and warrant sales, which was announced yesterday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 604945,
      "EditedText": "The third paragraph in section 5 of your submission says:\"No distinction is drawn in the Bill between commercial and consumer debts. Though it is our submission that it would be inequitable to have such a distinction and probably difficult to categorise\".Why would it be inequitable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 604949,
      "EditedText": "I thought that it would be easy to distinguish between the two."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 604952,
      "EditedText": "For example, an employee might take his employer to a tribunal and receive an award. If that employer is self-employed in the commercial arena and has an overdraft, we felt that effective action should be taken against him, if necessary, to recover that award. However, in certain circumstances, that might involve going to his home. That example might raise difficulties of categorisation. We might be wrong, but the matter concerned us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 604955,
      "EditedText": "Recently, we had a debate in Parliament about the importance of encouraging the growth of small businesses in Scotland. We do not have enough of them. Do you have any statistical evidence on the impact of the bill on small businesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 604965,
      "EditedText": "I understand that you were under pressure to meet deadlines but, in retrospect, do you regret that you did not take a more positive line? You say that the present situation should be reviewed. Do you regret not proposing more positive recommendations on how to improve the situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3444651+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 604969,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 should be strengthened by making it a requirement that anyone who faces the difficult situation of being in debt and is rapidly reaching the end of the road should be made more fully aware of their right to pay by instalments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 604970,
      "EditedText": "That is a common-sense argument and a good case could be made for it. The difficulty that arises is that being aware of rights is only one step in the process; having access to somebody who will guide you through the courts and who will make the application is also part of the process.Irrespective of where the rights to pay by instalments arise—whether under section 129 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 or section 1 or section 5 of the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987—I agree that the debtor should be advised that he has those rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 604971,
      "EditedText": "One thing that is emerging clearly from the evidence that we are hearing is that the vast majority of difficulties with debts involve debts to local authorities. Does the Law Society have a view on whether local authorities should be required, when they obtain a decree, to allow payment by instalments? At the moment, when the decree is granted, there is a 10 per cent surcharge and the individual has to come up with the money in its entirety. That can be fairly traumatic.The Law Society may not have a view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 604972,
      "EditedText": "It would be difficult for me, at this stage, to express precisely the Law Society's current view on that.I am, however, happy to make some general comments. I think that there is an argument that a review should take place. A summary warrant does not arise from a court decree; there is an administrative process that allows a local authority to obtain a warrant. It is clear from the evidence that has been given—some of which has been extremely distressing—that issues need to be addressed concerning enforcement following a summary warrant being obtained.I would be ill-advised to prejudge what a review might find; but I could certainly be persuaded that there are issues in the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 to be addressed and reviewed in relation to the enforcement of summary warrants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 604975,
      "EditedText": "I would not necessarily accept that poindings and warrant sales are an inefficient way of recovering money, although they are inefficient when one seeks to recover money from people who simply do not have it, such as the poor and vulnerable. That is why the safeguards in the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 exist. In some circumstances, for example when a party has assets—whether a car, a valuable painting or an ornament—that can be poinded and sold, it can be an effective and efficient remedy. It is a remedy that is used not only by financial institutions but, in relation to some of the warrants, by local authorities. However, I would like to emphasise my genuine concern that if this bill were to be passed, a number of individuals would be deprived of an effective remedy. Examples I have used before include an employee who has been wrongfully dismissed and a husband or wife seeking aliment; no remedy is currently open to such people. That does not mean that this should not be reviewed; it is very likely, given the evidence that I have seen and that has been laid before this committee, that there are issues that prompt a review of certain aspects of the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987. Such a review might be useful, because it is inefficient to use poindings and warrant sales against an individual who simply cannot pay. Part of the difficulty may result from a lack of knowledge about the individual's circumstances. Again, the evidence shows that when an individual is in financial difficulties, they can be reluctant to try to communicate with their creditors. That may be another area where money advisers and trading standards officers can help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 604977,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but I do not have those figures with me. Poindings and warrant sales can be effective in a commercial context. A restaurant would not wish to have its movable tables or its stock-in-trade poinded. Very frequently, the mere threat of that taking place is sufficient to lead to payment. However, I do not have the detail that you would wish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 604983,
      "EditedText": "It is illegal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 604984,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned other jurisdictions, such as England. Is that the extent of the evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 604987,
      "EditedText": "Sometimes the point was simply to flag up various concerns. I accept your criticism; some of that was almost inevitable. I recall that we met on the Thursday and that the submission had to be in on the Friday. We were given an extension of one day and eventually got the submission in on the Monday. It was that kind of—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 604988,
      "EditedText": "In fairness, Mr McConnell, to refer the Westminster experience, the Law Society of Scotland is well known for giving authoritative briefings on all aspects of proposed changes in the law. I cannot imagine that you had just a few days' notice to prepare. I am concerned that the Law Society must have been looking at the proposal, as Mr Sheridan introduced his bill in September. I do not want to labour the point, but I would be interested to have some elucidation. It seems that there is not as much backing as there might have been. My second point concerns the European convention on human rights. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee has heard evidence that the convention does not apply in regard to existing legislation, such as the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987. If I remember correctly, it applies only to legislation that has been through the Scottish Parliament or has in some way flowed from actions of the Scottish Executive.Eventually, this bill is likely to receive royal assent and become law. When that happens, is it your impression that the European convention on human rights will provide some remedy to an individual in terms of rights associated with property? I am not asking any one of you in particular, but Mr Clancy talked about 41 European countries that have some form of arrestment or threat to allow attachment to moveables. If that is the case, presumably the convention already applies in those countries. While I accept that you may not be experts in European law in each of those countries, are you aware of examples whereby that convention has been used to prevent the attachment of moveables, in terms of the rights of property?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 604992,
      "EditedText": "I am familiar with those cases, Mr Clancy. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 604997,
      "EditedText": "We have talked a lot about the advice agencies and your evidence has suggested that they have a constructive role to play. The Lothian Anti-Poverty Alliance and other agencies say that they do not find poindings and warrant sales at all helpful in assisting people. As an alternative for people who have means, they have suggested that the arrestment of wages and bank accounts would be much more helpful in ensuring that those who deliberately and malevolently avoid debt pay their debts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605000",
    "Meeting": {
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 605000,
      "EditedText": "I understand that any submission to the committee becomes part of the public record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Johnstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 605001,
      "EditedText": "I would like to clarify a point. You sought to elicit the view that we considered warrant sales to be inappropriate. I qualify that by saying that they are inappropriate in certain situations. In other situations they can be entirely appropriate and give a meaningful remedy to a person who deserves that remedy. Undoubtedly there are circumstances in which their use is inappropriate. The Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 seeks to qualify a creditor's right and to control how that right is enforced in relation to debts. It may not do a perfect job, but it tries to strike a balance. We accept that there are areas, particularly in relation to summary warrants and poindings and warrant sales, in which the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 ought properly and usefully to be reviewed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C605004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Clancy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 605004,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. It has been a great pleasure to be here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
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    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 605005,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that you will be back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 605007,
      "EditedText": "We were talking about intimidation—we found you quite intimidating."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 605013,
      "EditedText": "Okay. We will ensure that that report is circulated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C605014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 605014,
      "EditedText": "From the evidence that we heard last week from people who had been threatened with warrant sales and the evidence that we heard today, I do not think that we know enough about the guidelines that sheriff officers have to follow. The Law Society suggests that poor and vulnerable people will not be targeted, which is a clear contradiction of the evidence that we heard last week. Will we take evidence from the Society of Messengers-at-Arms and Sheriff-Officers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 605020,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C605021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 605021,
      "EditedText": "It is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 605022,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I will think about that again, but I think so."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C605023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 605023,
      "EditedText": "Roseanna Cunningham said the way in which the oral evidence sessions were divided up among the committees would enable us to get a balance of views between people who are clearly against the bill and those who are clearly in favour of it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C605025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 605025,
      "EditedText": "Can we try to break down the statistical information on whether poindings and warrant sales are a successful means of collecting debt? We know that a local authority does not recover the outstanding debt by those means, but can we collate information about how private individuals use them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 605026,
      "EditedText": "The research staff have provided some information on that point. Can I ask Martin Verity to pursue those points? Martin, would you draw up a draft paper on the issues that emerged this morning and circulate it to members by e-mail? We can then amend it as appropriate and it will be a briefing for our next session on the bill. Are there any further points, or can I draw this section of the meeting to a close?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 605035,
      "EditedText": "Mike Watson said that it would be okay to start without him, so I think we will. We are now officially unsuspended and back in operation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 605036,
      "EditedText": "We agreed last week that we would consider further the evidence that we heard on housing stock transfer. A number of issues that we need to progress emerged from that evidence. I ask for general, quick views about that evidence and for further questions.I have a number of points on which I would like further clarification. I was concerned about some of the evidence that the tenants gave us about the lack of consultation and involvement in transfers. I appreciate that some of the stock transfers are in the early stages, so models for the consultation process could yet be developed. Comments that we make about consultation could be quite opportune—we need to encourage people to use more sophisticated mechanisms for consultation, as tenants should be more involved in the process.I mentioned previously that I would like more factual evidence from tenants' organisations about their views and, in particular, about consultation. I felt that some of the evidence was impressionistic and anecdotal—similar, in some ways, to issues that were raised earlier today, which were terribly anecdotal and not sufficiently substantive. I do not want to dismiss evidence on that basis; I would rather give witnesses the chance to come back to us with more substantive evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C605039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 605039,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 560.0,
      "ContributionID": 605060,
      "EditedText": "We could do that in January. That will require an approach to the Parliamentary Bureau—or should that be to the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C605044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 605044,
      "EditedText": "Did the minister say in evidence to this committee, or is it known from the press, that—although she is involved with the group in Glasgow—she is not sitting on the committee that will make decisions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 605047,
      "EditedText": "That is generous of you. Thank you, Fiona."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C605048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 605048,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned about our methodology, which is highlighted by this inquiry. We have started taking briefings without having a clear objective for the inquiry. We have taken oral evidence without having a special adviser and when there has not always been written evidence. We should try to lay down our procedure so that we can proceed with the inquiry in a regular, methodical way.First, we should decide on an inquiry and its objectives. Secondly, we should decide whether we want a special adviser. Thirdly, we should invite written submissions. Fourthly, the special adviser should recommend which of the providers of written submissions should be invited to give oral evidence, and we should discuss that recommendation because our view may differ from that of the special adviser. We should then proceed to take oral evidence.My worry is that we seem to drawing a distinction, which I do not understand completely, between hearing briefings from people and taking oral evidence. We need to clarify our methodology and get into a regular way of doing things for each inquiry, otherwise we are liable to end up taking evidence from people on a particular issue without a clear idea of what we are about. That would not increase the credibility or reputation of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 550.0,
      "ContributionID": 605056,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are being wise after the event. Nobody suggested that we appoint a special adviser at the beginning because nobody knew that we had the budget to do that. The only thing that we could do was start the investigation ourselves. A special adviser would be of great assistance and would help to focus the direction of the investigation.However, we should not prejudge what we want to find out. We want to find out the truth, and the truth might not be what we would like to hear. We should listen to the evidence and base our conclusions on that evidence, rather than on preconceived ideas that we may have about stock transfers or anything else. The programme changes from week to week.After last week's meeting, I noted the need for a minimum of four further briefing sessions. The first would involve Glasgow City Council. All members will accept that the council must be involved, as Glasgow's is the most important stock transfer. The minister's reputation will stand or fall on whether the Glasgow stock transfer goes through. It is very important that we hear from that council. At the same time, we could invite Dumfries and Galloway Council as a rural council. However, Fiona now seems to be suggesting that we invite all seven local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 556.0,
      "ContributionID": 605058,
      "EditedText": "So, we can have a meeting with Glasgow City Council and Dumfries and Galloway Council. We need to speak to the funders. Glasgow City Council has been speaking to the Council of Mortgage Lenders. That might be the most appropriate body by which to be briefed, as it speaks for financial institutions. We should find out its views, and about what housing benefit changes might imply for the right-to-buy housing associations—in other words, how such changes might affect the decision to invest money in housing. The unions must be consulted. As well as the joint unions that represent Glasgow City Council, the Scottish Trades Union Congress could be invited to give a broader view. The minister could then be invited.The problem is that our work schedule in January does not include any evidence sessions on housing, and we are meeting the minister at the end of January. That is not the right way to go about things. We should take further evidence before we see the minister. We should work into the programme the four briefing sessions, plus any other sessions that members might suggest today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 558.0,
      "ContributionID": 605059,
      "EditedText": "How quickly will we be able to get the adviser in place? We would like to have the benefit of the adviser's input into a lot of this stuff, preferably before hearing the evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C605062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 564.0,
      "ContributionID": 605062,
      "EditedText": "Why is the matter referred to the bureau?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 605068,
      "EditedText": "With respect, Fiona, the social inclusion context is at the heart of tenant participation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C605069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 605069,
      "EditedText": "As well as taking evidence from tenants who are currently involved in stock transfers, we must gather evidence from people who have been involved in stock transfer in the past. We must find out from them whether they are unhappy about that and whether it has worked or not. We will not otherwise get a balanced view. We must keep our direction, but we must also ensure that we receive balanced evidence so that we can produce fair recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 605072,
      "EditedText": "The West of Scotland Forum of Housing Associations was meant to do that. That was the evidence that it was supposed to give, because it represents all the bodies that have successfully transferred stock. If you want to address that, it would have to be in a separate session, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C605076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ContributionID": 605076,
      "EditedText": "It is a fact of life. We have only one more set of oral evidence to take on warrant sales. There may be some scope for rejigging the timetable in January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C605080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 600.0,
      "ContributionID": 605080,
      "EditedText": "We want to be out of this by Easter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C605081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 602.0,
      "ContributionID": 605081,
      "EditedText": "A ministerial statement is being made next week—perhaps housing stock transfer is its subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C605084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 608.0,
      "ContributionID": 605084,
      "EditedText": "We are now going into private session to discuss the appointment of individuals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:54.2038153+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 605046,
      "EditedText": "I raised a question about whether there was a conflict of interest. Wendy Alexander replied that there would be and that another minister would make decisions about Glasgow. However, that does not resolve what happens to the other new housing partnership bids in the rest of Scotland. In a personal capacity, I am writing to Wendy Alexander on that issue, but I am happy to share the response with the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.0585835+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 554.0,
      "ContributionID": 605057,
      "EditedText": "Not for oral evidence. We could ask for written submissions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.950035+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 574.0,
      "ContributionID": 605067,
      "EditedText": "I thought that we agreed originally to examine finance. You are absolutely right, but we should focus on the financial impact of stock transfer and tenant participation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.9656621+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C605079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfer",
      "HeadingID": 18314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ID": 18314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ContributionID": 605079,
      "EditedText": "The minister told the committee that she thought that the bill was supposed to be published during the first six months of the year, although it would probably be later in those six months. We should be reaching our conclusions by March or April."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.9656621+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 604846,
      "EditedText": "Apart from suffering the consequences of a lack of money, children are not involved in the process. That is an important point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 3358
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 18313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ID": 18313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 604840,
      "EditedText": "It is clear that the majority of cases involve local authorities, so our main focus must be on local authority pursuance. If we are to take the international perspective into account, we must define \"analogous\". Analogous could mean anything. In your view, what does analogous mean in this case?Warrant sales are based on fear. We talk about forceful entry, for example, which is deemed to be so bad that children under the age of 16 should not be present. Have the fine minds of the Law Society been put to creative use to think up a civilised alternative to the fear of warrant sales?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.3030692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11218,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 11218,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 420074,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for missing the early part of the meeting. I support what Tricia said about the lack of statistical information. I would like to know whether statistical information is available on how many times charges are reduced—when a charge is made out and then diminished—and on the circumstances in which that happens. Further, we should set in train the timetable, by writing to the Lord Advocate. I would also like the committee to pursue with the Lord Advocate the idea of a victims charter, which would entitle victims and families of victims to all the information, all along the line, on matters such as those that are raised in this case.I appreciate our timetabling problems. Perhaps we could highlight the matter to the Lord Advocate and the Minister for Justice, with a view to making progress in the spring."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 420153,
      "EditedText": "And you do not know anything about the training that they will be given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 420155,
      "EditedText": "It is clear from the report by the chief inspector of prisons that the three open prisons in Scotland are underpopulated. Do you believe that no open prison should be closed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 420161,
      "EditedText": "What I am trying to get at is whether the three open prisons have different types of prisoner, purposes or philosophies, or whether they all operate the same criteria.Perhaps I am not explaining myself very clearly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 420163,
      "EditedText": "My third question brings us back to the bunk beds. How long have you been a prison officer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 420165,
      "EditedText": "How would doubling up affect inmates who are currently in single cells?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 420175,
      "EditedText": "You said that open prisons are underpopulated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11218,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 11218,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 420069,
      "EditedText": "The first agenda item is petition PE29 on road traffic deaths, which we have received from the Dekker family. Most members of the committee will be only too familiar with the issues that are raised in this petition and with the tragic circumstances that gave rise to it.We must discuss how we intend to progress this matter, rather than trying to deal with the petition this morning. In fairness, it would be almost impossible to do this petition justice with a brief discussion. We must decide what we ought to do with the petition and how best to manage that work within the constraints on the committee, given our heavy work load. This is more about timetabling than about the substance of the petition.I ask whether there are brief comments on how we should handle this petition, to help the clerks with timetabling discussion on it into future meetings. Such discussion will now require to be held after the Christmas and new year recess. This is a substantive petition, which raises an enormous number of key issues. I do not think that we can investigate it in just one or two meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11218,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 11218,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 420075,
      "EditedText": "One of the difficulties with this petition is that it raises a number of different issues, each of which could be the subject of separate and quite long investigations, such as handling victims, which is just one aspect of the petition. That is why I am concerned that we discuss how best to progress the petition. I suggest that, in the first instance, as with all new potential investigations, this will require to be deferred until the meeting after the Easter recess. It will join the process by which we will decide our priorities once we have dealt with the legislation that we are still handling.However, between now and then, it would be useful to write to the Lord Advocate, to ask for his specific comments on each of the areas raised by this petition. Separately, it might also be appropriate to ask the researchers in the Scottish Parliament information centre to collate what information is available—that would also give them time. I know that a number of members have asked parliamentary questions on this subject and there are various pieces of information that are on—or off—the record. If, prior to the Easter meeting, we can get SPICe to collate all the relevant information that is on the record, we will have information that is easier to handle when we come to consider how to proceed with this petition at that meeting. Are members happy with that approach?I must also tell members that I understand that we have now lost the meeting of the morning of Wednesday 15 December. I believe that it has been decided that that Wednesday morning will be parliamentary time. The standing orders state that committees will not be able to meet when the Parliament meets, and, as we were scheduled to meet that Wednesday morning, that means that, willy-nilly, we have lost a meeting, which is unfortunate. I intend to take that matter further, as we will have two bills returned to us for stage 2 and we are in the process of trying to timetable that for the January and February meetings.The gathering of background information on this petition will mean that, when we come to deal with the matter more substantively, we will be in a better position to understand what work will be required in order to progress it. Potentially, there are two or three different investigations subsumed in this petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 11219,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 11219,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 420079,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem with your comments on this particular directive. However, I note the comment in the clerk's note about the European Commission's communication on crime victims in the European Union. I would like to have a copy of that document. When that document is available, the committee might want to examine it, given our concern for the victims of crime."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 11219,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 11219,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 420080,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Apart from anything else, it would be useful to have some indication of the practices in other countries, so that we can learn from best practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy (Prison Staff Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 420083,
      "EditedText": "The prison officers are completely shattered. Since the announcement, there have been several attempts by management to address the issue with staff at Dungavel, through the human resources directorate. However, the comments from staff at Dungavel reveal that they still have no clear picture of their future. At first, they were told that they were prioritised for transfers, that they would be transferred to the establishments that are closest to their homes and that staff in other establishments may find themselves being transferred. That has now changed. The staff at Dungavel are no clearer about their future, and are absolutely demoralised about the cuts.This committee raised the issue of the excellent reports on Dungavel, following the effort that Dungavel staff have put in over the past couple of years. They have managed to attain 6.9 per cent on their mandatory drugs testing; they have received awards from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities for their prisoners; and two members of staff have been recommended for Butler Trust awards as a result of the schemes that they have implemented for prisoners. They could not believe the announcement that Dungavel was to close: it came completely out of the blue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 420085,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We were surprised to hear the chief executive last week comment on the fact that the Prison Service finds it hard to fill Dungavel. He said that Dungavel has a capacity of 135. He is almost correct: the actual figure is 134. However, he failed to say that Dungavel's capacity has been restricted to 115, to bring about the changes in mandatory drugs testing and the drugs programme. Dungavel currently houses 109 prisoners. Specific places were reserved for people who returned from open conditions. If that had been working well, there would have been no problem in filling Dungavel.The issue that this committee has raised, which was one of the points that was made in the report, is that prisoners loathe going to Dungavel because of the accommodation. What the chief executive failed to say was that, since 1991, Dungavel management has submitted annually a request for single cell accommodation at Dungavel. That request was made so frequently that the Prison Service had such plans drawn up, but, every year since 1991, the management of Dungavel have been told that the funding did not exist.However, at last week's meeting of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service admitted that, over five or six years, a piggy-bank, as you called it, of £24 million had been built up. That has served to demoralise the staff at Dungavel even more. They aimed for projects and programmes for prisoners, but were told that there was no funding. Suddenly, they have found out about a hidden piggy-bank."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 420087,
      "EditedText": "The prison officers that we have spoken to at Penninghame are demoralised as well. The prison officers and the prisoners view the closure as the removal of another facility. Eddie and I work in Shotts. We deal consistently with prisoners whose long-term aim is to secure places in Dungavel and Penninghame. For a prison officer, the worst situation is a constant merry-go-round of prisoners who come in through one door and go out through another. There is nothing worse than seeing people return to prison, not because they have not addressed their criminal behaviour and offending, but because they have not been given the facilities to acclimatise themselves prior to their release.Prisoners who have served long terms in lock-down facilities, and have never had the chance to go to Penninghame or Dungavel, consistently re-offend and return to prison. The success rate is based on those who go through places such as Dungavel and Penninghame, but those facilities are going to be lost. The chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service says that there is no argument for having three open prisons. I am sorry, but there is. As long as prisoners are returning on the reoffending merry-go-round because those facilities are not there, there is an argument for open prisons.As for the argument about remoteness, we know that Penninghame is remote. There has not been any backlash from prisoners or their families about its remoteness: they are happy with the facilities. The community is happy with the facilities. That prison is a success, as this committee pointed out, and so is Dungavel, as the chief inspector's report indicated. However, we are to believe that the Scottish Prison Service's management have come to a justifiable decision, within three weeks, to close those establishments. When pressed for strategy plans, they say that they will not be able to produce a strategy until next spring."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 420091,
      "EditedText": "The projection, we understand, is 6,700. The Scottish Prison Service maintains, in some of the reports that it is sending out, that its balance is 6,200. It told this committee that it trusted the statisticians and that it did not make up its own figures.Mr Fairweather is right. If we cut these prisons, then got a sudden influx, there would be a requirement for 500 places. The only way that those places could be provided would be to build another prison through the private finance initiative. The problem is that that would be creating a 500-strong super-jail and removing the facilities that prisoners need to acclimatise themselves prior to returning to the community."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 420092,
      "EditedText": "In your wide-ranging comments, you have addressed many of the points that I had in mind. As there is a separation in prison officer representation, can you tell me which prisons your organisations represents?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 420095,
      "EditedText": "Phil, I deliberately said that I did not want this to become a discussion about industrial relations in the Prison Service. I am not going to allow you to go down that road."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 420098,
      "EditedText": "I was nearly tempted to comment.Since 1991, the Prison Service has been at pains to advertise the fact that the number of staff has gone up. The previous chief executive commented that the number had topped the 5,000 mark. In 1991, prior to the staffing structure review, there were 4,101 governors and operational staff—prison officers who work with prisoners. Since 1991, that figure has dropped by 800, although we are now dealing with 600 or 700 more prisoners than we did then. That reduction has been made through the restructuring programme—the staffing structure review, which was introduced in 1994. Consistently, in the years since 1991, the number of operational staff in the Prison Service has dropped. Last year, the reduction in operational staff since 1991 stood at 800. We cannot determine the current figure, as it has been amalgamated and jobs are classified according to pay bands: we cannot tell the difference between prison officers and administrative staff.What we do know is that the number of administration staff in the Prison Service has trebled since the staffing structure review, while the number of operational staff dealing with prisoners has been reduced by 800. The latest cuts will see another reduction of 374 staff, and our biggest fear is that the majority of them will be operational staff: people who are working on the shop floor and are dealing with prisoners. We do not have enough staff dealing with prisoners at the moment.The core area of our business is dealing with prisoners. The only way in which we can have success in the Prison Service is if we have staff working with prisoners on a daily basis who can get to grips with prisoners' problems and the planning of their sentences. That gives prisoners something to aim for, from the time they come in the door from the national induction centre—which is where they are inducted now—through our larger establishments, where they are dealt with by operational staff and their sentences are planned, to semi-open conditions in Dungavel and Penninghame. Our biggest concern is the consistent erosion in the number of operational staff on the shop floor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 420100,
      "EditedText": "There will be a major detrimental effect on rehabilitation programmes, especially as we forecast that the number of prisoners will increase. In the next couple of years, we can see prison officers having to deal with overcrowding on their galleries again. We believe that the Prison Service already has a strategy to start doubling up in cells, by putting bunk beds back on to galleries. Our staff will be busy dealing with the number of prisoners, and that will set the Prison Service back to the mid-1980s."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 420103,
      "EditedText": "On Dungavel, you suggested that 109 of the 115 places are filled. Has that been the consistent occupation rate over the past year or two, or has the rate been significantly less?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 420104,
      "EditedText": "We have been told that the average rate of occupation has been around 109. Dungavel locked up 109 on Tuesday night, and it has the capacity for 115 prisoners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 420108,
      "EditedText": "On which date was that order for bunk beds made?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 420110,
      "EditedText": "Do you have copies of the e-mail with you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 420112,
      "EditedText": "We have had copies of the letters and so on, but we have not seen copies of the e-mail. It would be helpful if we could have it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 420113,
      "EditedText": "I wish to be clear what you are saying, because the committee will take something from your evidence about bunk beds. Is that order for bunk beds unusual?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 420120,
      "EditedText": "As the convener has already pointed out, we cannot talk to members of management because they will not talk with us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 420121,
      "EditedText": "Pauline, let us be careful where we go with this line of questioning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 420122,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but given that John Reidy is here today, it is important to get his view, because at the end of the day we will be concerned with the arguments that can be made to minimise job losses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 420125,
      "EditedText": "I apologise. The human resources department has been instructed to go to establishments that are closing and speak with the staff. We welcome that—not the closures, obviously, but we welcome the fact that the department is talking to staff. However, when staff are given a different picture every week on where they may be going, it compounds their fears. As the clock ticks away and we approach 3 March with the staff no clearer about their future, compulsory redundancies will be the next subject to loom in front of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 420126,
      "EditedText": "On the issue of redeployment, apart from the obvious things that you said on location, what will be required in training and so on if you want to transfer a prison officer who has worked in Dungavel or Penninghame for a long time to another prison?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 420128,
      "EditedText": "Is that the standard procedure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 420130,
      "EditedText": "You know that last week we heard evidence from the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service. He described the open prison environment as a challenging environment, and he made it clear that prisoners did not want to go there. He also said that contrary to the popular misconception that an open prison was an easy environment, the situation was quite the reverse. I would like to know your view on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 420131,
      "EditedText": "First, I work in Shotts and dispute the fact that prisoners would choose to be in Shotts rather than Dungavel or Penninghame. If the chief executive does not take that on board, he should ask the prisoners face to face.Secondly, Dungavel and Penninghame are challenging. As I pointed out, the fact that prisoners need to be acclimatised before being released into the community is a challenge in itself. However, I would rather challenge prisoners in a controlled environment—or in the limited-control environment that we need in those types of prisons—than just turn them out of places such as Glenochil, Shotts and Perth, because we would not be doing ourselves or the community any favours, and we would be doing the prisoners an injustice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 420140,
      "EditedText": "A real drug programme could be and has been achieved in prisons; now we are flinging it away. The Scottish Prison Service management will set itself back years by sending prisoners from Dungavel back into environments with a high incidence of prisoner drug taking. Some of those prisoners will be tempted just through peer pressure to take drugs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 420141,
      "EditedText": "Is Dungavel's drug programme being replicated elsewhere in the Prison Service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 420142,
      "EditedText": "Major work on drug testing and on creating drug-free environments is being undertaken throughout the Prison Service. However, that policy of creating isolated drug-free environments within drug environments does not seem to be working. Dungavel established a completely isolated drug-free establishment, which is working. In answer to your question, although there are drug programmes within the service, they are not as successful as the programme at Dungavel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 420143,
      "EditedText": "Has the programme been successful because of the amount of control that can be exercised at Dungavel due to its isolation and small size?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 420144,
      "EditedText": "Those are key factors in the drug programme's success."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 420145,
      "EditedText": "How will the loss of Dungavel affect the drug programme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 420148,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 420150,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, when a prison officer is transferred to another establishment, it is usually left to the governor of that establishment to determine the length of training. I do not know whether the Prison Service intends to have a standardised training package in the light of the fact that so many staff are being transferred at once. Normally, the retraining consists of a prison officer spending a week with the staff training officer, familiarising himself or herself with the establishment and its practices."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 420160,
      "EditedText": "No, each prison has a standard set of criteria. However, as has already been highlighted, the criteria can be changed and numbers manipulated depending on which programmes have been introduced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 420162,
      "EditedText": "Although there is a generic set of criteria for open conditions, each establishment has its own philosophy for the treatment of prisoners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eddie Hunter (Prison Staff Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 420166,
      "EditedText": "Doubling up was commonplace when I worked in Edinburgh prison some years ago; it is not a situation to which any prison officer or prisoner—or any right-minded person—would want to return if possible. Two people share an 8 ft by 4 ft cell with a bunk bed and no room for in-cell sanitation. Prisoners have pots that are emptied in the morning. I had five years of that when I worked in Edinburgh. If prison officers found opening up a cell in the morning disgusting enough, imagine how prisoners felt sleeping all night in such conditions. I cannot put into words how horrendous the situation is for everyone concerned. We were shocked by the chief executive's comment last week that the programme for in-cell sanitation was somewhere in the distant future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 420172,
      "EditedText": "It will happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 420174,
      "EditedText": "The chief executive made the rather derogatory comment that there was already overcrowding and that he was not making the situation any worse. The chief executive of the Prison Service should be ashamed of openly admitting that. We should address the problem of overcrowding before closing these prisons. If the Prison Service was being run without overcrowding in any establishment, we could address the issue of whether there were too many prisons. However, we believe that, because there is still overcrowding, the chief executive has got his priorities wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 420178,
      "EditedText": "At the start of last week's evidence session, the chief executive made about seven references to a £13 million saving. The committee was equally puzzled by that and when Mrs Grahame pulled him up on the point, he said that the saving was £24 million. When he was asked about the period over which that money was saved, he replied that it was saved over four or five years. When he was pushed later on the point, he said that he did not understand the question because the savings would not come until the next two years—£7 million this year and £6 million next year. Is a layman reading the Official Report to believe that the chief executive has £24 million in the piggy-bank and that the £13 million over the next two years is in excess? Is the £13 million being saved, so that he does not have to touch his £24 million in the piggy-bank? That was the impression that he gave last week.If that is the case, I would ask the question that the committee asked last week: why is that £24 million being accumulated? Dungavel has been screaming out for single-cell accommodation since 1991 and has been told consistently that there is no money. However, the chief executive of the Prison Service then tells the committee that he has saved £24 million over five years. I do not think that he needs to make these savings; he just wants to protect that £24 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 420186,
      "EditedText": "So the group will then have a full system of high-security, medium-security, low-category and open prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 420188,
      "EditedText": "We would need to explore that issue separately. You have told us that the information is unsubstantiated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eddie Hunter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 420189,
      "EditedText": "The information is certainly unsubstantiated, but it provides a good reason for closing prisons that do not need to be closed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 420192,
      "EditedText": "It is more likely to be 3.30 pm."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C420199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 420199,
      "EditedText": "It does not affect my committee, but I know how difficult it has been to organise briefings from different organisations and to fit everything in. It seems a bit unfair to do that in such an arbitrary way.Would it be possible to suspend standing orders to allow committees to meet at the same time as Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 420082,
      "EditedText": "I have a particular interest in Penninghame, but I have also—as members will know if they have read the Official Report of previous meetings, as I am sure that they have—questioned the closure of Dungavel, following the report by HM chief inspector of prisons for Scotland. Will you tell me the effect on the morale of your prison officers of the way in which the closure has been planned and the reasons for that decision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 420086,
      "EditedText": "I have concerns over the effect of staff morale on their ability to perform their job thoroughly. They are the backbone of the system. Will you address the threatened closure of the open prison at Penninghame? The main argument was that it was remote from families. We received a submission from Penninghame, which gave a good report of it, not only from the people who work there but from the community. Can you tell me how the prison officers at Penninghame feel now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 420088,
      "EditedText": "I have one final question. In the newspapers recently, Clive Fairweather has said that it will be necessary to build a high-security prison in the next five years, and that there will be nowhere to put 500 prisoners if these closures go ahead. Do you agree with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 420090,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that we will need to build a high-security prison within the next five years if these closures go ahead, even with the projection."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 420151,
      "EditedText": "That is all?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 420159,
      "EditedText": "Are there different criteria for different open prisons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 420167,
      "EditedText": "How high would that programme be on your list of priorities? Is the issue of prime significance for a prisoner's well-being?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 420169,
      "EditedText": "My last point concerns future overcrowding. I appreciate that capacity is needed to hold decanted prisoners during the refurbishment of cells for in-cell sanitation. I know that you are not statisticians, but I think that I can rely on your experience. What is your view on future overcrowding in prisons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 420171,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 420173,
      "EditedText": "Is it unfair of me to ask you how soon that will happen if the closures go ahead?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420063",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11217,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 420063,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:30"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11217,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11217,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 420066,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Phil. You copied to me the letter that you sent to Tony Cameron, which I am sure he appreciated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11217,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 420068,
      "EditedText": "These things happen to all of us from time to time. Thank you for putting that on record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11218,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 11218,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 420070,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we should let this matter slip without putting down some markers, which should be in the form of contact with the Crown Office. We should look for details on the number of occasions that police have charged people with causing death by dangerous driving and on how many occasions those charges have been altered to the charge of careless driving. It might be worth while to consider the reverse process as well.We should also express concern to the Crown Office about its apparent refusal to give reasons for altering charges to the families of people who have been killed in such accidents. Ultimately, I see no option but to invite the Lord Advocate to come before the committee to answer questions on the range of issues that surrounds the charge of causing death by dangerous driving."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C420071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11218,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 11218,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 420071,
      "EditedText": "While in no way belittling the seriousness of both this case and the petition—we have all had some involvement with the Dekker family at some point—I think that the case is the tip of a big iceberg. This is not the only time that we have been approached about this subject and therefore it is a matter that the committee would be justified in investigating. I take your point, Roseanna, about our heavy work load. We have discussed that on many occasions and will do a stocktake in spring next year to plan the rest of our work. However, we should consider seriously this petition during that stocktake and, although I do not know how we will attach priority to issues, I think that we should flag up that this is one subject that we should return to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11218,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 420072,
      "EditedText": "One of the saddest aspects of cases such as this one is that the families feel let down by the system. As a committee, we need to do what we can to address that and to address some of the pain that families suffer. There seems to be little statistical information available from the Crown Office about the number of people who have been charged with careless driving. Before we can make informed decisions, we need the evidence before us of the Lord Advocate's charging policies. I agree that we should consider this matter and that we should flag up our interest in it. We should progress it when the work load is a bit lighter than it is at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11218,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 11218,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 420076,
      "EditedText": "I recognise the pressures and that we are talking about deferring this matter until Easter. We have had similar discussions before. I have particular concerns about this petition, as it will take longer to sort out. However, it seems to me to be totally wrong that, when someone is killed in an accident, there is no reference to that death when the accused is subsequently charged with careless driving. I do not know whether we can make representations to the Lord Advocate, as his hands would be tied in any case.On the cancellation of the 15 December meeting, I guard as jealously as any other member my Mondays and Fridays, which I spend in the constituency areas. However, we are moving into a position where we cannot afford to lose that meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11218,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 11218,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 420077,
      "EditedText": "We are in the process of trying to organise something else, as other items were slotted in also. One of the difficulties with losing that meeting is that we are potentially going to lose the opportunity to speak to the Minister for Justice about prison issues. There are complications arising out of the loss of that meeting and, behind the scenes, we are trying to arrange an alternative slot that week. However, that will not be a Monday or a Friday, as, apart from anything else, ministers have indicated that they do not wish to be invited to meetings on Mondays and Fridays as well as on Tuesdays.Although the details are not finalised, I can indicate to members that we hope to be able to fit in a slot on the afternoon of Tuesday, 14 December. However, that is not confirmed, and all I ask is that members pencil that date into their diaries. We are giving members the maximum possible notice. I was going to raise this matter later, under the item on the Scottish Prison Service.We are having difficulties trying to rearrange meetings and trying to find the time to undertake work. The best way in which we can progress this petition is to write to the Lord Advocate, to ask him to address the specific issues, one by one, that the petition raises, not simply to gloss over them. I also suggest that we ask SPICe to pull together the available information that is germane to the issues raised by the petition, by way of on-the-record replies to parliamentary questions and debates.This is a formal petition, therefore we must make some pronouncement on it. I do not think that it is the sort of petition that we can merely note. We must try to address the substantive matters of this petition, either in totality or in part, and we need some background information. I ask the committee to leave the matter with the clerk and me, and we will ensure that those two things are set in train. We will report back at another meeting on what we have received. When SPICe gives us that information, the committee will be able to read it.The difficulty is the timetabling, as I have already mentioned. If members are happy with that at this stage, the matter will be addressed. We will try to allocate time on a future agenda, even if it is only five minutes, to report back on progress so far, before the committee enters into a bigger discussion, in a couple of months' time, at which it can decide whether to take up every item in the petition or to focus on a couple of the key issues. Are all members happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 11219,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 11219,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 420078,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 is another European document. Yet again, we are grateful to the clerks for their helpful note. It appears that European documents will be a standard item on our agenda.As members will read in the clerk's note, money laundering is a reserved matter. The committee may want simply to take note of the document. The background is laid out in the clerk's note, as is the procedure that the committee can follow. The European Committee has referred the document to us, as it has come via the criminal justice division of the Scottish Executive. However, as it is a reserved matter, unless there is anything that members particularly want to raise in connection with it, I propose that the committee simply take note of this document.In the future, we may want to discuss how we can best handle the documents that are referred to us from the European Committee, as many of them relate to reserved matters. My only concern is that we ensure that we are not simply taking note of such documents without highlighting issues that might be relevant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 420089,
      "EditedText": "That it will be necessary to build a 500-strong prison?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 420093,
      "EditedText": "We have majority membership in Dungavel and we have almost 50 per cent membership in Shotts. We have members throughout the Prison Service, in Inverness, Glenochil, Cornton Vale, Low Moss and Penninghame."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 420097,
      "EditedText": "It was a nice try, but do not do it again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 420101,
      "EditedText": "The report by the chief inspector of prisons shows considerable overcrowding in some of the larger institutions. You mentioned the fact that spaces in prisons are kept deliberately to deal with emergency conditions, and that those places are currently in the smaller facilities. What effect would the closure of Dungavel have on that facility, given that there might be emergencies elsewhere?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 420102,
      "EditedText": "Dungavel is a prime example, because in the past it was used to facilitate the busing out of prisoners from Glenochil and Barlinnie during the riots there. Dungavel is a C category prison, which is the same category as Glenochil, yet the chief executive states that there is a problem in filling Dungavel, which can take prisoners in time of trouble. I am talking not just about rioters: I am talking about prisoners whom we need to remove for their own safety. On a number of occasions when we have had a riot in a prison, some prisoners have wanted nothing to do with it and have wanted to move out. We need places where we can put prisoners who do not want to be involved in trouble. By reducing the number of smaller establishments and pushing ourselves into 500-strong prisons, all that we are doing is creating an environment in which we have no flexibility to implement the strategies that are required to deal with incidents. That will tie us down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 420106,
      "EditedText": "Last week, the association anonymously received copies of internal e-mails from George Sinclair to departments within the Prison Service, in which he refers to more orders for the manufacture of beds. He requires 109 bunk beds for Greenock, bunk beds for A and C halls of Barlinnie, and bunk beds for Perth, as well as 150 single beds. When our staff received that information, alarm bells started to ring. As soon as bunk beds were mentioned, our members had visions of numbers increasing in the galleries and a return to overcrowding, yet I understand that last week the chief executive said that there were no plans along those lines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 420111,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and we forwarded a copy to your committee. Obviously, you do not have it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 420114,
      "EditedText": "I do not work in the industrial complex, but the staff there felt that the increased order was unusual—they were so alarmed that they forwarded the e-mail to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 420115,
      "EditedText": "In your view, how many of the job losses will be compulsory?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 420117,
      "EditedText": "Have you started a consultation exercise with management yet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 420123,
      "EditedText": "To provide some clarity with regard to discussions, we know that HR has been instructed to go into establishments—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 420132,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point.One of the important issues for the committee will be what is said about the capacity of the Prison Service to deal with incidents or an increase in the prison population. What is your association's view on the capacity that the service should have to deal with future increases or incidents?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 420136,
      "EditedText": "We understand the difficulty that you have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 420137,
      "EditedText": "The chief inspector of prisons has said that one of the biggest problems for the Prison Service is drugs. Dungavel was heralded by the chief inspector as the only drug-free environment. We have heard about the conditions in Dungavel, in particular the unsuitability of the dormitory accommodation. What is it about Dungavel that has allowed you to achieve the drug-free environment that is the envy of the rest of the Prison Service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 420138,
      "EditedText": "The chief executive slated Dungavel because of the accommodation and because prisoners do not want to go there, yet from March to November 1999, out of 604 prisoners who were tested in Dungavel, 552 tested negative for drugs. That is a return of 6.9 per cent for the mandatory drugs test, compared with other establishments that have percentage returns in the 40s, 50s and 60s. I am not a statistical expert, but the MDT returns at Dungavel seem to be good.With regard to accommodation, as I have stated, Dungavel has been crying out for single-cell accommodation, to improve facilities and increase capacity, because staff there know that they have a programme that works. They know that they can reduce prisoners' drug taking. Drug testing is always a major issue for the Prison Service, yet here we are shutting down a success."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 420139,
      "EditedText": "That is the point which I am trying to make. When Dungavel closes, prisoners will not be moved to a prison with the same kind of regime. Given your figures on the high returns from drug testing at other prisons, is a real drug programme achievable in prisons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 420146,
      "EditedText": "It will be devastating."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 420152,
      "EditedText": "That is the normal procedure for prison officers who have sought a transfer to a certain establishment. Because they have had to compete for a job there, they have brought themselves up to speed with an establishment's facilities. We are talking about prison officers who, with no choice in the matter, will be taken from where they work and plonked in an establishment about which they know nothing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 420154,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eddie Hunter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 420168,
      "EditedText": "Two main issues currently affect Scottish prisoners: the first is drugs and the other is in-cell sanitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 420170,
      "EditedText": "On whether it will happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 420176,
      "EditedText": "Then there must be something wrong with the programme if there is overcrowding in maximum-security prisons and we cannot get prisoners through the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 420177,
      "EditedText": "I recognise that it is not your responsibility to worry about where savings could be made. However, the chief executive is faced with a £13.5 million extraction from the cash available to him, even though that cash was perhaps put in his back pocket through stepping back on programmes such as single-cell accommodation at Dungavel. If those prisons are not closed, how else can the chief executive save money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 420179,
      "EditedText": "Although I know that you cannot know for sure, why do you think that Dungavel and Penninghame are specifically targeted for closure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 420180,
      "EditedText": "We have discussed the issue at length with our committee and members of staff at Dungavel and believe that Dungavel and Penninghame are being shut purely because of their locality. We fully expect Dungavel prison to be taken over by Premier Prison Services. The figures tally. A figure of £500,000 has been put on Penninghame and there is a £400,000 price-tag on Dungavel. The Prison Service has already admitted that it will cost £1 million to build the shed needed at Friarton to accommodate the industries work that will be sent up from Dungavel. However, the industries manager from Friarton was at Dungavel yesterday and he admitted that he could not take on that work. There is no reason for shutting Dungavel or Penninghame but locality. We understand from Kilmarnock staff that Premier Prison Services has been talking about the buying of Dungavel prison for months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 420181,
      "EditedText": "What is Premier Prison Services?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 420182,
      "EditedText": "That is the group that owns Kilmarnock prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C420191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 420191,
      "EditedText": "Would that be at 2 o'clock on Tuesday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 420194,
      "EditedText": "In order to find a slot. We have to remember that other committees are meeting on Tuesday afternoon. We have to find accommodation. I understand that we are clashing with the Public Petitions Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C420197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 420197,
      "EditedText": "Has any reason been given for the Parliament meeting on Wednesday morning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 420200,
      "EditedText": "That should have been considered. I have to say that none of this is officially confirmed—everyone is hearing it, but no one is getting official confirmation.We will now move into private session, as agreed at the previous meeting, to discuss the draft stage 1 reports on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill and the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 420201,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 12:30."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11217,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11217,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 420064,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. Although only four members of the committee are present, nevertheless the meeting is quorate. Based on past performance, people will drift in over the next five minutes. I intend to get the first couple of agenda items out of the way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11217,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11217,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 420065,
      "EditedText": "I wish to raise an issue before we move on, convener.During our discussions with the Scottish Prison Service on 23 November, I gave a wrong figure at column 440 of the Official Report of that meeting. It should have read 6,025 rather than 7,025, which changes significantly my line of questioning. I apologise for that error."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11217,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 420067,
      "EditedText": "I received a nice letter back from him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11218,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 11218,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 420073,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the comments that have been made so far. The starting point in this matter is the statement that the Lord Advocate gave us when he attended a committee meeting with Angus MacKay. He used the word accountability and the word transparency, which is the key word. We owe it to the Dekker family and to other families who have written to us to get to the bottom of what the Crown Office means when it says that it wants to provide a service that is seen to be transparent. That would go a long way towards establishing principles about what we can, or cannot, expect from the Crown Office. It would also contribute towards addressing the views that we probably all share on victim support.We should tackle this subject—I will leave it to others to comment on how we should go about that. I agree with Tricia Marwick and Scott Barrie that the petition is worthy of further examination, but we will probably have to leave that until we have more time. I am happy for us to kick off by writing letters to the Lord Advocate now, pressing him on what he means by accountability and transparency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 420081,
      "EditedText": "Moving on to item 3, committee members will recall that last week we had a lively meeting at which the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service was present, as well as representatives from the trade union side. Today, we welcome representatives from the Prison Staff Association. John Reidy is an executive committee member and Eddie Hunter is the national chairman of the Prison Staff Association.Committee members will be aware, both from last week's and this week's news, that there is an issue of controversy in the Prison Service. The Prison Staff Association is a union that is not represented on the trade union side. I do not want the committee to get involved in a debate about the internal industrial relations of the Prison Service, and I ask members to confine their comments and concerns to the effect of the cuts.The invitation was made to the Prison Staff Association because it represents the majority of members of the Prison Service who are working at Dungavel, and because it has members at Penninghame—two prisons that are now marked for closure. We felt that it would be wrong to proceed with an investigation of the cuts in the Prison Service without hearing from all the representatives of all the members.With those comments, I introduce John Reidy and Eddie Hunter, and invite committee members to ask questions. Christine Grahame has a particular interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 420094,
      "EditedText": "I wondered whether you had the majority of members in Penninghame and Dungavel, and whether that had any effect on the decision to close those two prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 420096,
      "EditedText": "Okay. I shall raise a different point. In a letter that was sent to us on 15 November, you state:\"Since 1993-94 until 1996-97 we believe that there was a consistent erosion of Governor and Uniformed staff whilst the numbers of admin staff within the service has more than doubled.\"Would you like to comment on that and on the reduction in staff now, with respect to the proportion of administrative and uniformed staff?Sorry, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C420099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 420099,
      "EditedText": "You could say that there will be an additional work load in induction and planning, given the loss of facilities at Penninghame and Dungavel, which will make it much harder to provide programmes that prepare prisoners for their return to the community."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 420105,
      "EditedText": "In one of your previous answers to Phil Gallie, you referred to your letter of 16 November 1999 to Tony Cameron, which you copied to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. On page 2 of that letter you say:\"From the evidence of increased orders for bunk beds, circulated by George Sinclair…it is obvious how you intend to handle this problem.\"When we raised that issue last week, no one seemed able to shed any light on it, other than to say that they had heard rumours. Can you clarify what you know to be happening? You referred to the likelihood of doubling up in cells. Could you expand on that, and tell us what the evidence is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 420107,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for clarifying that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C420109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 420109,
      "EditedText": "The e-mail was sent on 14 November. It states that George Sinclair originally wanted the work to be done by January, but that he asked for the work to be brought forward by two weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
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    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 420116,
      "EditedText": "We do not have any figures on that, but we know that the correspondence sent out by the chief executive states that compulsory redundancy should be a last resort. However, the last document that came out, which was entitled \"Living Within Our Means\", and of which I believe your committee has copies, lays out the human resources options for dealing with excess staff. If people cannot be found to take the packages that are on offer, there will have to be compulsory redundancies. Given that two weeks down the line Dungavel staff still do not have a clear picture of their future, we could speculate that compulsory redundancies might be required if the future of the Dungavel and Penninghame staff is not quickly dealt with by HR."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 420118,
      "EditedText": "Have we started?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 420119,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Have you held joint talks about the programme with management?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 420124,
      "EditedText": "Do not use initials."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 420127,
      "EditedText": "They would need to take part in a reinduction programme. Staff who have served long periods at a particular establishment should undergo a reinduction programme when they are transferred to a different establishment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 420129,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 420133,
      "EditedText": "We understand that the Prison Service has always maintained that it has 100 spaces. If we take into account the fact that previous trouble has always been restricted to one hall, and that the average number of prisoners in one hall is in the hundreds, that number of spaces is probably about right. The problem is that with the closures of Dungavel and Penninghame, we cannot see 100 spaces being available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 420134,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that the amount of spare capacity that is required for emergencies is 100 spaces?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 420135,
      "EditedText": "That is the figure that has always been used, but you must speculate about what would happen if the Prison Service was dragged back to the days of the riots. This is a hard issue to talk about, because if we make comments about riots, prison officers such as myself feel that we will get riots."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 420156,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 420158,
      "EditedText": "We have always maintained that there will be underpopulation in open prisons. A recent report in Prison Service Journal highlights the fact that there will always be spaces in open prisons. That has much to do with the criteria for admission to open prisons. Last week, the issue of those criteria was raised with Mr Duffy. We deal with prisoners who go to Dungavel, but Dungavel can be a stepping-stone to an open prison. The knock-on effect of changing the criteria is a reduction in the number of prisoners going through the system. If we cannot get prisoners out of Shotts to Dungavel, how can Dungavel get them to open conditions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 420164,
      "EditedText": "Ten years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 420183,
      "EditedText": "Do you believe that that group will buy Dungavel?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 420184,
      "EditedText": "Dungavel has already been priced at £400,000. In his report, the chief executive said that Dungavel was highlighted because it is a prime location and basically intimated that there had already been interest. The staff at Kilmarnock are saying that the group will buy Dungavel, although we cannot confirm that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eddie Hunter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 420185,
      "EditedText": "We believe that there is a concerted plan. We have had some reliable information that the establishments in that area—Dungavel, Penninghame and Dumfries, which has not yet been mentioned—will go into private hands to give Premier Prison Services a full prison system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11220,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Reidy: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 420187,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 420190,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming this morning and answering our questions. As I said earlier, we had invited the Minister for Justice, Jim Wallace, to give evidence on the prisons issue before Christmas. That session was provisionally arranged for our meeting on the morning of Wednesday 15 December and was pencilled into the minister's diary. However, I understand that the meeting of the Parliament will start at 9.30 am. A standing order states that committees cannot meet at the same time as Parliament, so all committees meeting on that Wednesday will by diktat lose those meetings.As a convener, I cannot say that I am particularly happy that such a decision has been made without reference to any of the committees that had meetings scheduled for that morning. We are probably not the only committee that had a tight timetable and invited witnesses. It is an unfortunate position for us to be in. We have been struggling not to have extra meetings. The last thing that we need is to lose meetings.We will no doubt be given confirmation of that decision in due course. If we still want the Minister for Justice to give evidence, we will have to try and reorganise matters. There is not much time between now and next Tuesday. We are trying to find a slot on the afternoon of Tuesday 14 December. I know that that might not suit everybody, but Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays are parliamentary days—if members cannot make it, they cannot make it. I would ask members to pencil that into their diaries and to rearrange existing meetings if possible. At least I have given you a fortnight's notice, rather than springing it on you at next week's meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 420193,
      "EditedText": "Why so late?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 420196,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to find a mid-to-late afternoon slot on Tuesday 14 December, which would allow us to invite the Minister for Justice to give evidence on the issue of Scottish prisons. The alternative is that we do not hear from the minister until after the Christmas and new year recess, which would be unfortunate. In order to continue our investigation, we need to be able to talk to the Minister for Justice sooner rather than later.The minister's office has been fairly good about trying to find suitable times. We are not meeting any obstruction from his office—quite the reverse. We are still trying to organise that meeting.Members will receive confirmation of that meeting, but I want to give you the maximum notice so that you can put it into your diaries. There will be no meeting on Wednesday 15 December, because Parliament will be meeting that morning. As I understand it, all the committees that were to meet on the Wednesday morning will have to hold similar discussions.I can see Kate MacLean, who is a committee convener, too, looking rather unhappy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 420198,
      "EditedText": "I think that those concerned want to deal with certain business before the recess and the only way that that can be done is by adding an extra meeting of Parliament. It is very unfortunate that they have chosen to do it that way. The committees have not been consulted about the removal of those meetings from their diaries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 420084,
      "EditedText": "Does the low morale of prison staff impact on the prisoners?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 420147,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up some supplementary points. I was going to raise Pauline McNeill's point about training. Have some prison officers been in Dungavel for many years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 420149,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, would not it entail a longer training programme to retrain a prison officer habituated to one type of prison regime?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 420157,
      "EditedText": "Even though they are underpopulated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 2388
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11220,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11220,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 420195,
      "EditedText": "I was going to say that we have a Public Petitions Committee meeting on Tuesday afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 7563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 286253,
      "EditedText": "A decision is required on future business. The committee should note that the meeting that was scheduled for 15 December will need to be rescheduled. We had asked the reporters groups to give their initial thoughts at that meeting. I suggest that they do so instead on 12 January.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 7563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 286261,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:33."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7561,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7561,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 286247,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the public meeting at 12:29"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 286248,
      "EditedText": "The Deputy Minister for Community Care is here to move a motion on amnesic shellfish poisoning, which we have dealt with in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 286250,
      "EditedText": "That the Health and Community Care Committee in consideration of the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No 4) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/143) recommend that the order be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 286251,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C286254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 7563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 286254,
      "EditedText": "This is a good opportunity to put on record our thanks to Dr John Forbes for all his work on the Arbuthnott report.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 7563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 286256,
      "EditedText": "John Forbes has set a standard by which the whole Scottish Parliament will be judged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 7563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 286257,
      "EditedText": "When will we receive copies of the submissions on community care, which we will begin to discuss at our next meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 7563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 286260,
      "EditedText": "I expect that the discussion next week about community care will be general and formative. For example, it will give us an idea whether we need a specialist adviser to assist us; it will also give us an idea from whom we want to hear. The submissions are fairly weighty, and I am aware that members have been dealing with Arbuthnott and the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. The meeting will be a chance to give members their Christmas reading. We can attend to business such as deciding whether we need to tender for a specialist adviser before we start work on community care in the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2033E106P139C286249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gray, Iain",
      "ID": 2033,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Pentlands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 286249,
      "EditedText": "I feel that I should have a running joke for these occasions—probably something to do with common concern or mutual interest. I appreciate that you still have other business to discuss, so I will not waste time on that.I move,"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 7563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 286252,
      "EditedText": "The Public Petitions Committee has passed us a petition from Mr J Ooms. I suggest that we put that on the agenda for next week's meeting and deal with it in public then.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 7563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 286255,
      "EditedText": "Today we have reached the end of our work on the Arbuthnott report. Our conclusions will be made public on 3 December. Duncan Hamilton is right; John Forbes and the committee clerks have done an incredible amount of work to pull together a very technical and in-depth report. We are right to put on record our thanks to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 7563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 286258,
      "EditedText": "You will get the submissions at the end of this week, I hope, or at the beginning of next week—they are sizeable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 1694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 7563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 286259,
      "EditedText": "That is why I ask."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 106428,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of questions that I would like all the witnesses to consider. Kenny Ireland said that there is an assumption that a national theatre would be well funded. This may be a difficult question to answer, but do you have a view on what level of funding would be required to establish and maintain a national theatre along the structural lines that Hamish Glen described?My second question concerns the role of the Scottish Arts Council. Do you think that funding for a national theatre should be distributed via the Scottish Arts Council along the same lines as it funds other national companies, or should it come direct from the Scottish Executive, or should it come via a separate arm's-length body?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 106435,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask Nicola Thorold another question arising from her comment that there should be arm's-length funding. Would you be happy for funding to be distributed via the Scottish Arts Council, or do you think that another body should be set up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 106528,
      "EditedText": "I would like you to address a number of points. You were described last week by, I think, representatives of some of the unions, as being a secretive organisation, and I wonder whether you want to comment on that.Will you talk us through the process that the Scottish Arts Council follows in determining the yearly funding of the national companies? Are you confident that that process is understood by the national companies? You will have heard a general comment this morning from Kenny Ireland that the SAC moves the goalposts weekly—a comment that is broadly in line with some of the comments of the witnesses that we had last week.Are you confident that those processes are applied consistently to all the national companies? If so, how do you explain the difference between your approach to the Royal Scottish National Orchestra, which was denied index-linked grant funding because you said that it had financial problems, and your approach to Scottish Opera, which received index-linked grant funding, despite having received special deficit funding for 11 out of the past 32 years and, as we now know, having very serious financial problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 106536,
      "EditedText": "What you have just said raises the suspicion in my mind that your monitoring procedures are extremely hit or miss. That is something that may need to be looked at. Do you accept that there is a perception, at the very least, that you insist that RSNO and two of the other national companies meet stringent financial criteria and set their priorities according to their funding—we heard from RSNO last week about how it has cut back on its activities, especially overseas—while allowing Scottish Opera to spend what it likes to meet its artistic priorities and worry about the costs later? A number of people from whom we have taken evidence seem to perceive the situation in that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ID": 2162,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 106576,
      "EditedText": "Contrary to what the agenda says, I did not ask for this item to be put on the agenda in order to consider in detail the legislative proposals. I raised the issue last week as I am concerned about the process that is being followed and about the lack of consultation over the provision in the draft bill that deals with the SJNC. We have had an extensive consultation exercise on the draft bill and it is fair to say that that exercise was in line with the consultative steering group's recommendations. We now await the outcome of that exercise. However, a couple of weeks ago, a letter issued to a limited range of people said that the bill would include a provision to abolish the SJNC. The letter gave a deadline of less than two weeks for comments and stated that comments should not relate to the policy, but only to\"the technical aspects of the provision\". At no time has there been any public consultation on the abolition of the SJNC, which is an approach that runs completely counter to the CSG's recommendations and to standing orders. It is worth noting that the committee was not sent the letter so that it could comment on the draft section; the letter was sent to the committee for information. The committee should express its disquiet at that approach, even if we do not go into the merits of the policy, about which I am sure that we would not agree. We should say that this is not the standard of consultation that we expect from the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ID": 2162,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 106582,
      "EditedText": "I do not deny that, Ian, but we all agree that it is also obliged to consult pre-legislatively on these proposals. It has not done that in the same way as it consulted on the rest of the proposals in the draft bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen (Federation of Scottish Theatres): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 106355,
      "EditedText": "I am the artistic director and chief executive of Dundee Repertory Theatre. I am here as the chair of the Federation of Scottish Theatres. I apologise for our failure to provide a written submission, but we fell foul of the deadline as we felt that we needed to consult members in detail.The Federation of Scottish Theatres represents 30 of Scotland's producing theatre companies and has a growing membership that includes His Majesty's Theatre in Aberdeen, Citizens' Theatre, the Royal Lyceum Theatre Company, the Dundee Repertory Theatre and Scottish Opera as well as Scottish Youth Theatre, Grey Coast Theatre Company and Boilerhouse. I mention those names to show the range of our membership. We represent the vast majority of producing theatre of all scales in Scotland.I want to leave the committee in no doubt that there is unanimous and unambiguous support for the creation of a Scottish national theatre and I want to scotch the idea that professional theatre is divided. We welcome this opportunity to talk about the Scottish national theatre. Our membership sees it as an opportunity to improve the cultural life of Scotland. The fact that the Parliament is considering this idea and is giving us the opportunity to talk in this context lifts Scottish theatre into a new arena—one that we have wanted it to enter for the past 20 years.We have been talking about the idea of a national theatre for some time. A model has emerged that attracts the support of professional theatre makers throughout Scotland and that Scotland can accommodate culturally. It aims to provide performance of an international standard, which should not be confined to music, opera, classical ballet, the visual arts and the libraries. As has been pointed out before, the glaring hole in that list is a national platform for Scottish theatre.The model that we propose will enhance the existing infrastructure, exploit more fully the existing financial investment in Scottish theatre and provide a national and international platform for Scotland's most popular performing art form. The model has a parallel in the Edinburgh International Festival, which is probably the best-established platform for theatre in the world. It is an independent organisation that can commission work from exciting theatre artists and producing companies to deliver work of world-class quality.We believe that a Scottish national theatre should also be an independent organisation with several remits of equal importance, if of differing scales. It should have a remit to commission work from artists and companies of all scales and from all disciplines, for example; music-theatre, theatre for young people and large-scale work. The best talent should have the opportunity to work for good wages and in excellent conditions in the pursuit of excellence. That work would make up a Scottish national theatre season.I want to take this opportunity to push the idea that Scottish theatre makers have the ability to create world-class work. \"Life is a Dream\", which was produced by the Lyceum, is an example of such work. It was invested in by the Edinburgh International Festival, brought together many talented artists and was the toast of a recent festival. \"Sunset Song\", which was produced by TAG Theatre Company, is a similar example and there are many more.The Scottish national theatre should have a remit to tour. It should make its work available by presenting seasons in Scottish cities but the theatre should also have a portable middle-scale to large-scale theatre space to enable it to perform to communities that would not otherwise have access to its productions.We would also like to see the Scottish national theatre's potential exploited internationally. It should be able to attract foreign finance and to represent Scotland and its cultural life throughout the world. Scotland is an international footballing nation because we compete on the world stage, not because we watch other teams play. \"Life is a Dream\" had a successful run in London and New York and \"Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaitis\" picked up a major international theatre award in Poland.The national theatre should have other responsibilities. It should promote the work of our contemporary playwrights, support revivals of successful work, develop projects and artists and encourage innovation, experiment and training.The national theatre project must not draw financial resources away from the existing infrastructure—a successful national theatre must involve the range of our current national theatre community, which is an argument for support for the existing infrastructure as the creative building blocks of a national theatre. The national theatre of Scotland should not be a new building-based producing company or touring company.The Federation of Scottish Theatres seeks to elicit the political support that we need if theatre is to continue to play its part in Scotland's national renewal. If the Parliament can initiate and fund a high-profile national theatre that is developmental, provides a good night out, and that ensures that the best talent works for good wages in excellent conditions and plays to full houses, we can create a national theatre model that will be our own.We do not want a substitute for the Scottish Arts Council, but we want a national theatre that is unique to Scotland and that has the ambition to provide quality work that will capture the public imagination and allow us to take our place on the international stage. A national theatre would give theatre a status that recognises its quality and success, that would help prevent the drain of creative people from Scotland and that would create the conditions that would attract our leading theatre artists back to Scotland. It is time that Scottish theatre had a platform that recognised its place in our culture."
    },
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  },
  {
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Giles Havergal (Citizens' Theatre): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "EditedText": "I am the director of the Citizens' Theatre in Glasgow. I support what Hamish said and I want to supply some information about the width, breadth and depth of theatre in Scotland. Living in one place, as we all do, it is hard to appreciate the amount and the high standard of work that is being done, examples of which would be: Tosg Gaelic Theatre Company's plays in Gaelic; Lung Ha's Theatre Company's work with people with disabilities; TAG Theatre Company's educational work; experimental work by companies such as Theatre Cryptic and Visible Fictions; new writing at the Traverse; touring productions by companies such as 7:84 Theatre Company and Borderline; and new ensemble work in Dundee. An enormous amount of splendid work is being done at all levels that could form the basis of the exciting initiative that we are discussing."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
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      "EditedText": "I am absolutely certain that the national theatre would be beneficial in all those areas. The benefits for actors, writers and technicians are reasonably clear, in that a national theatre would create the conditions for them to produce work of the highest possible quality, as the financial conditions of work would be improved. A national theatre would also provide them with a much higher-profile platform on which to show their work.Let me deal with Nicola Thorold's concerns. The model is designed specifically to build on existing infrastructure and investment in Scottish theatre. The intention is that the national theatre should commission work on all scales and in all the various disciplines in the pursuit of excellence. It might commission, for example, Visible Fictions to produce a piece of work that would form part of the national theatre programme."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "I thank all our witnesses for their statements. I know that Brian Monteith wanted to kick off with some questions on the benefits of a national theatre. Brian, do you think that all your questions have been answered, or do you want to pursue this?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
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      "EditedText": "I am sure that I can explore the matter further."
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      "EditedText": "Carry on."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
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      "EditedText": "Could Hamish Glen say a little more about what he thinks the artistic benefits of a national theatre may be for actors, writers and technicians? The model that he put forward was very interesting, but would it address some of Nicola Thorold's concerns through commissioning?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
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      "EditedText": "Absolutely, and they tend to do very well down there. Unquestionably, there is a drain of talent away from Scotland—a national theatre could turn that round. The benefits would spill over into all the various organisations. If we were commissioned to produce a piece for the national theatre to the level that is expected of a national theatre production, all my technical staff—the carpenters, the electricians and so on—would be able to apply their expertise at a level that they would not otherwise have the opportunity to work at. That could only augment our own work."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
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      "EditedText": "With a national theatre, things would be transformed. Because I run Scotland's only full-time ensemble company, I have managed to increase the rehearsal periods that are available, but that is very unusual. Normally, we would be expected to take three and a half weeks, from the first time that the company sits down to read the play together to the first time that it hits the audience. Anywhere else in Europe, it would be unimaginable to produce work to the quality that is expected in such a short time; there, the rehearsal period could easily be two or three months. With a national theatre, developmental work on projects could be started considerably earlier by bringing together interested writers and directors before a decision had even been made that a particular production would form part of a national theatre season."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Thank you. Members of the committee may indicate who they would like to answer their questions, but we will try to bring other witnesses into the discussion if they make it clear that they wish to add something."
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      "EditedText": "Nicola, did you want to add something?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Thorold: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes. The committee may not be aware that a task force has been set up to consider young people's work in Scotland. I believe that it is proposing the establishment of seven centres throughout the country. Those would not necessarily be building based, but they would act as a focus for young people's work."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Could you say a little more about the task force?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Thorold: ",
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      "EditedText": "It has no formal constitution. The Arts Council has encouraged it and is funding the development of its work."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
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      "EditedText": "Could you clarify to which arts council you are referring?"
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 106377,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean the Scottish Arts Council?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C106381",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
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      "ContributionID": 106381,
      "EditedText": "There is a model for this. Manchester's Royal Exchange Theatre has quite a sophisticated touring theatre, which it used while bomb damage was being repaired.Seasons in a city would, I imagine, be city-wide—they would happen not just in the Lyceum or the Citizens', but in the Traverse and the Tron, for example. I hope that we are all agreed that a new building would be a very bad idea; we should use all the beautiful buildings that have been recently renovated."
    },
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      "EditedText": "Ah—someone is declaring an interest."
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  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106387",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
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      "EditedText": "As long as we will come back to it this morning."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes, we will."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
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      "EditedText": "I am sorry—I did not catch the question."
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  {
    "ID": "C106390",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Giles Havergal: ",
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      "EditedText": "Me neither."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 106392,
      "EditedText": "I would like to move on to other issues before coming back to that."
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  {
    "ID": "C106398",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Thorold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
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      "EditedText": "The model is certainly worth exploring. As I said, we need a creative and contemporary way of raising the whole issue of theatre and its audience. That needs to be an element of a bigger strategy, however. When we talk about reaching audiences in Scotland, this is only one of the issues; others would have to be considered.I will answer Mr Stone's question. I would be very reluctant to take anything away from the existing infrastructure in order to create the model that has been proposed, because, if the current infrastructure had less money, I do not think that it would be sustainable."
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  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C106400",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 106400,
      "EditedText": "Hamish, you mentioned—several times—standards, skills and training. I am interested in the training, development and support of young actors, and you spoke about a forum to look at what is happening to theatre companies. It worries me that, when lottery money becomes available, expectations are raised and young folk gain skills and confidence but there is nowhere for them to go."
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 106402,
      "EditedText": "That model is specifically designed not to drain the talent from companies. The health of the national theatre would be dependent on the health of those companies.When the National Theatre of Great Britain was being set up, a letter was sent protesting that money would be drawn from all the repertory theatres. A great irony is that the first signature on the letter was that of Richard Eyre, who went on to run the National Theatre. I would suggest that that centre of excellence is responsible for the fact that in England, unlike in Scotland, they have what one could call a super-rep theatre, between the ordinary rep and the Royal National Theatre. To avoid the draining of talent, five companies—in Manchester, Nottingham, Birmingham, Sheffield and Leeds—were given approximately double the funding: £1 million instead of £500,000. Those companies benefited from that. Unfortunately, at that time we did not have our own Parliament, and the concept that excellence might exist in Scotland did not cross anyone's mind. I think that the committee should know that Giles Havergal and I are funded at the level of the lowest repertory theatre in England—Hamish Glen, too."
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  {
    "ID": "C106404",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 106404,
      "EditedText": "Our recent experience in New York with \"Life is a Dream\" is that it was very advantageous to Scotland and to Scottish business people.The proposed model, without any draining, could provide us with a figurehead. We should start to exploit what is happening culturally in Scotland—unless, in 50 years' time, we want to have business conferences in Houston with a piper and some shortbread."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106405",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 106405,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask Hamish Glen and Nicola Thorold whether they are against having a national theatre company along the lines of the Royal National Theatre in England?"
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
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      "EditedText": "There are major distinctions. The Edinburgh festival is a model of an independent body with a remit to commission work and to put together artists and companies, whether from here or abroad. By definition, it involves a vision of how to create world-class theatre for the Scottish people. The Arts Council has a different remit—to distribute funds to various arts activities throughout Scotland. Increasingly, those funds have to be competitively bid for—which, crucially, is different from what we are proposing.There probably would be a board of directors. A team would be involved in marketing and raising theatre's profile and a team would be dedicated to providing international platforms, talking to Avignon, Strasbourg and New York.Quebec is a very good example of a small half-nation that has been hugely successful in promoting its work on international platforms throughout the world. In that sense, its effect on the world is enormous. The Scottish Arts Council, however, has no remit or, indeed, funds actively to promote work from Scotland on an international stage."
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  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106411",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
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      "EditedText": "I know that we will be moving on to funding—everything raises the question of funding—but I want to understand what this body would physically be like. Are you proposing something along the lines of the Scottish Chamber Orchestra?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
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      "EditedText": "The Edinburgh International Festival would be—"
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 106415,
      "EditedText": "Is that the model that you want to stick with?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 106416,
      "EditedText": "The reason I say that is that the SCO has full-time players."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 106417,
      "EditedText": "As we heard last week, orchestra members are represented on the board of the SCO, which struck me as being a very good idea. You are saying that you will not replace the existing theatre companies. Are you suggesting that they—people such as yourself, for example—should have a role in the national company?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 106418,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It would make sense to have the active involvement of representatives of the infrastructure that is expected to make the work for the national theatre."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 106419,
      "EditedText": "A nice consensus is developing about the model. I would like to ask Paul Scott a question. You said—and I know that you will remember this:\"Theatre directors, in the past, have been reduced to an untypical, embarrassed silence when they have been asked where the national theatre should have its base.\"From that, I take it that you are in favour of having a base or a building. Is that a fair assumption?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 106420,
      "EditedText": "Yes—a base or bases. The idea of a co-operative organisation that involves several theatres and produces work that is presented on several different stages is a good model to begin the movement to launch the national theatre. When the productions appear, all those different places would be the theatre in which the national theatre was happening.The structure that Hamish Glen has been describing also requires a place in which to function. After all, the Edinburgh festival, which has been taken as a model, has a large building just up the road from here. I would imagine, Hamish, that this proposed organisation would be based in one or other of the theatres."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 106421,
      "EditedText": "It could be, but not necessarily—it could be based at the equivalent of the Hub."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 106427,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I know that Brian Monteith wants to ask another question, but we have to move on because time is against us. We still have to address the issue of finance, which Jamie Stone raised. Nicola Sturgeon also has some questions about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 106433,
      "EditedText": "It was decided that, as the chair of the Federation of Scottish Theatres, I would not mention how much a national theatre would cost. However, I was also told that I would be allowed to speak as an individual, so I will. If one really wanted to pull off a national theatre of the range and scale that I have outlined, one would need around £3 million.I shall try to describe the situation in another way. Any pot of money should be seen as an investment in a project that will have creative, social, economic development and tourism benefits. It is internationally established that a national theatre gives rise to a range of benefits, so any investment will pay a handsome return. A national theatre is also able to attract levels of sponsorship that could not otherwise be achieved. Additional private moneys could easily be drawn in to augment and build on that investment. It would also be a major ambassadorial tool for the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 106438,
      "EditedText": "I am tempted to say that you might think that we could not possibly comment. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 106439,
      "EditedText": "Nevertheless, I am here to ask a sharp question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 106440,
      "EditedText": "To answer your sharp question, no divine right is involved; an absolute practicality is involved. In recent years, the Scottish Arts Council has managed to introduce funds. Hamish Glen, Ian Reekie and I went to talk to Sam Galbraith three years ago when a fund was introduced. Other people may have a different view, but I believe that that money has been dissipated—no, that is the wrong word. The money has been spread out among lots of theatre companies and I still face the problems that I faced three years ago, as does Giles Havergal. Hamish Glen has funding that everybody knows about, but I think that he would also agree that we still face the same problems.If that is how the Scottish Arts Council works, that is fine: that is its brief, but I do not see how one can possibly say that it would be able to create or fund a national theatre. As has been said at previous meetings, the biggest client of the Scottish Arts Council—after Scottish Opera—is the Scottish Arts Council. It is always snowed under by lottery business—I am being sympathetic. If it is told to handle the Scottish national theatre as well, there will be a few nervous breakdowns. I hope that that is a straight answer.We are not being grand, or demanding to be treated differently. Most of us think that it is a practical solution, although other people may disagree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 106442,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Arts Council shifts the goalposts almost weekly. We have meeting after meeting at which the criteria are changed. You have to decide whether you want a national theatre and what you want: give us the brief directly and we can produce it. To say that the Scottish Arts Council is not politically motivated in some way is nonsense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 106443,
      "EditedText": "I support putting more money into the arts. In response to Jamie Stone's question about redistributing money within the arts budget, you implied that that should not happen and suggested that there were options. You will appreciate that there would have to be if the Scottish Executive wanted to put more money into the arts. Can you suggest where other—not new—money might come from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 106446,
      "EditedText": "If it is accepted that there are social, economic and tourism benefits, perhaps various sets of budgets could contribute to a pool of money that could be invested in a national theatre that would be a resource for those various areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 106449,
      "EditedText": "Giles Havergal's submission says clearly that\"the SAC has energetically used its hitherto extensive powers and influence to prevent any national theatre development.\"Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106453",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 106453,
      "EditedText": "I will try to be brief. It is a long story so I will not go into great detail.  Many years ago, the Scottish Arts Council published a document saying that it was in favour of creating a Scottish national theatre. When it held an inquiry into what the Scottish public wanted, it published a document, \"The Charter for the Arts in Scotland\", which stated the case for a national theatre in very fair terms. The SAC then conducted two feasibility studies, one after the other, after which it took fright—probably for good reasons. It was probably under great financial constraint at that time as, under the Tory Government, there was a standstill on funding, which meant an annual decrease in real terms. The SAC could not face any more financial demands as it had to work within a tiny budget. It then manipulated events in a manner that showed quite clearly that it was trying either to postpone any action on a national theatre indefinitely, or to frustrate it altogether. Senior members of the Scottish Arts Council—without naming names—have told me specifically that they opposed the creation of a national theatre. They did not tell me why, but I imagine that it was because they could not face an addition to their considerable difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 106458,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 106459,
      "EditedText": "Good morning to the representatives of the Scottish Arts Council. I believe that Bill English has some comments to make at the beginning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 106461,
      "EditedText": "I will explain how we will handle this morning's session. We will start with David Taylor, who will introduce the subject of the national theatre from the SAC's perspective. We will then give members of the committee the opportunity to ask questions. We have allocated 30 to 45 minutes for that. We will then move on to the SAC's general submission and points that have arisen over the previous three weeks. Tessa Jackson, and probably David Taylor, will come back in on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor (Scottish Arts Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 106462,
      "EditedText": "I am the director of drama and dance at the Scottish Arts Council. As I said in the paper on this subject that we submitted to the committee, there have been two studies on this in recent years. One was completed in 1994 and the second was completed in 1996 but considered by the council in 1997. Paul Scott is correct to point out that error.Those studies examined the feasibility of a Scottish national theatre. A model, which was dubbed the national theatre initiative, was identified as having a reasonable amount of support. It was predicated on the provision that there would be additional money for the arts. That echoes the comments made this morning by the theatre representatives.Since 1997, there have been other developments and other areas of consultation. A Scottish national theatre is one area of work that we have consulted on, but we have also consulted on other areas of drama. We had a major consultation in 1997 which drew up priorities that a wide range of theatre people thought that we should be consider. Those priorities included theatre for and by children and young people, increased support to playwrights and support for the diversity of Scottish theatre.Among the priorities was what was described as support for a national theatre resource. The council found additional money for theatre—£2.25 million over three years. That money has been allocated principally to a scheme called Scotland on stage, which addresses many of the characteristics of a Scottish national theatre initiative that have been talked about today and in the past. It is about supporting excellence, innovation and getting work across the country.It is wrong to say that additional money for drama has been dissipated. We have a responsibility to ensure that the widest variety of artists and work across the widest geographical area are supported. That certainly does not mean that we expect a diminution in the quality. Quality is the No 1 criterion. Members should consider the range of productions that have been supported through Scotland on stage, from \"Cavalcade\", which opened last week—I thoroughly recommend that you book tickets—to \"The Scaldie Hoose\", based on the life experience of a young traveller girl, to a production by the Highland festival about the aphrodisiac qualities of Islay cheese, to a tour of Liz Lochhead's work.All of that reflects what people have been saying about a national theatre initiative. We took that initiative by supporting some of the objectives that have been identified in the past; we have been putting more money into playwrights. We also support the task force that is looking into children's art centres, which has already been mentioned. We have been considering how to improve conditions in the touring infrastructure.I am not trying to pre-empt the initiative that was discussed this morning, which was interesting. As ever, the devil is in the detail. Any initiative would need to be worked on to ensure that it meets all its objectives. We have a fundamental interest in protecting the whole Scottish theatre community, which is very diverse. In our most recent consultation, diversity came up as a central issue. Any model would have to ensure diversity. We have the collective responsibility for all the arts in Scotland, not just theatre, and we would want to ensure that those interests were protected in any discussions. We are more than willing to discuss the idea of a national theatre with the arts sector and to develop a model, if there is the prospect of additional money to support it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 106468,
      "EditedText": "If you can persuade the Parliament to provide the money for that, we would be alongside you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 106469,
      "EditedText": "So it is only the money? There is no reluctance in institutions—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 106471,
      "EditedText": "But your paper says that people in the theatre think that this issue is not a high priority. In your big meeting of two or three years ago, it was away down low on the list. However, that is predicated on the fact that people did not think that there was going to be more money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 106474,
      "EditedText": "I wish to go through a number of points from your submission. I am not sure who wants to answer these points. Any of the witnesses should feel free to answer.Your 1994 report tells us that there was a complete lack of support for a new building. We heard that this morning from the artistic directors and representatives of various organisations. Do you still agree that there is no demand for a new national theatre à la south bank?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 106476,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 2.2 says:\"There was a case for a Scottish touring company\".Paragraph 2.3 says that there was\"Support for a Scottish National Theatre Initiative, with funds to support Scottish National Theatre activities.\"Presumably \"Support for\" is stronger than just a case for a national theatre.In some respects, we have heard from you what a national theatre initiative does. I draw your attention to paragraphs 3.2 and 3.3 of your paper. Paragraph 3.2 states:\"To establish a national identify at home and overseas by: being distinctivereflecting Scottish culturepresenting the work of the nationfacilitating national and international touring.\"Paragraph 3.3 states:\"To promote quality in theatre by:recognising and funding excellence where it exists (in a variety of forms). facilitating revivals of excellent productions.\"Does not that sound rather like the model that was described this morning? Do you think that that model would, in a sense, dovetail with the initiative?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 106477,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 106479,
      "EditedText": "A number of initiatives are likely to be on-going. One of the difficulties is that we do not know if that money will be available after three years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 106480,
      "EditedText": "So, in a sense, you have to argue the case with the Scottish Executive for that funding when it runs out?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2159,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 106484,
      "EditedText": "Since that event took place, have you, as the drama department, taken cognisance of the survey by increasing funding to children's and young people's theatre?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 106486,
      "EditedText": "Before you took up your current post, David, you worked for one of the theatres in Scotland, so you have a good deal of experience to call on. The thing that may have surprised some people here today—it certainly surprised me—is the degree of unanimity that exists between theatres that compete regularly. Has one of the problems—not just for people such as Paul Scott who favour a national theatre, but for the Arts Council—been that it could not find any consensus among the theatre companies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 106489,
      "EditedText": "There is something else that you did not know about me. You know about my interest in the Highland festival, but my kid brother makes Highland cheese. You can draw what conclusions you like from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 106499,
      "EditedText": "You explained that. However, the argument in your paper suggests that there is no will, need or desire for a national theatre, yet everyone who spoke this morning testified to all those things. Your paper does not seem to reflect that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 106503,
      "EditedText": "Those comments could be seen as negative in relation to a new theatre building or a new theatre company. They are not at all negative in relation to what was discussed this morning. This morning, the discussion was about finding resources to move existing organisations up a few notches, as and when appropriate. We do not think that there should be a large infrastructure replicated in order to support the national theatre. The idea that was discussed this morning could be very light on its feet, with a small staff that would use the resources of the existing theatre companies and buildings to realise this dream. There is no contradiction between our paper and what was discussed this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 106505,
      "EditedText": "To continue the work of this reconciliation commission, perhaps you can lay to rest or rebut a comment that Paul Scott made in his article in The Herald. He said that the Scottish Arts Council\"has been hostile, deceitful, and manipulative\".Do you have any comments on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 106507,
      "EditedText": "If people say that there is to be a national theatre and that the money for it is to come from the rest of the arts sector, we are hostile to that idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 106509,
      "EditedText": "There is a strong argument for the relationship being the same as for other organisations such as the Edinburgh International Festival, which has already been mentioned a number of times. We fund that and invest in that organisation's vision of artistic leadership. We monitor the use of that funding as we do for other theatre organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 106510,
      "EditedText": "Would you expect the Scottish Arts Council to have a monitoring role rather than, as some people from the other national companies have described it, an interfering role?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 106512,
      "EditedText": "Paul Scott said this morning that you would argue for a fund rather than for a company. His argument is that only a company can develop and initiate policy, and he suggested that your idea of a national theatre is completely different from what our first set of witnesses have argued for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 106519,
      "EditedText": "Presumably these proposals were not dreamed up last night by the earlier witnesses and are part of a continuing discussion in the theatre world in Scotland. Is not the SAC involved in those discussions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 106521,
      "EditedText": "Although I am aware that we need to move on, do any members have any further questions on the national theatre?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 106523,
      "EditedText": "How long is a piece of string? It depends on what we want the funding to do, but it certainly needs to be upwards of £1 million. It is very difficult to say off the top of my head whether the level of funding is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 106524,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, the discussions on the national theatre proposals will form part of the committee's final submission. I expect that, having raised the issues further this morning, you will have on-going discussions with other interested bodies about how to progress the matter.We will move on to general issues that have been raised over the past three weeks in our discussions on national companies in Scotland. Although you have given us further written information, do you have any further comments before I open up the discussion to questions from the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 106529,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of questions there. I will ask Graham Berry, our finance director, who has been head of finance at the Scottish Arts Council for 10 years, to answer the particular point on how we go about deciding the funding for the national companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nod Knowles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 106533,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but I would just like to say that we did not simply deny the RSNO the money. The letter does not say that and our plans and budget do not say that. We withheld it until we had examined more closely their plans to get on to the track that would keep them and us to the conditions under which we thought we were operating."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nod Knowles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 106538,
      "EditedText": "Graham Berry does himself an injustice when he says that he does not interrogate the submissions in depth. He and other directors give very close attention to the papers that the national companies submit. Currently, we have very accurate figures for where the RSNO stands in the year's accounts and we are discussing the situation with it. Throughout the period leading up to the merger, we discussed with Scottish Opera the figures that it was presenting. However, we were not able to challenge some of the intricate detail of the figures because, as Graham said, we cannot explore that to the extent that the company's accounts department can.You will recall that the problems of Scottish Opera did not emerge until September this year; they were as much a surprise to the board of Scottish Opera as they were to us. However, the figures for the companies are examined in a very consistent way and with sufficient accuracy—provided that the figures that are presented to us are well prepared—to ensure that we are abreast of the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 106542,
      "EditedText": "When we were last here, we covered in detail exactly what we knew and when. There was a deficit that was budgeted for. The figures were known to us at the points that our diaries suggest. We did not know the full extent of the situation until we had agreed figures with Scottish Opera. Those figures were not the ones that we had agreed were the best that a company should be operating under. The company was moving towards a merged form of operation with a view that the financial situation would be better next year or the year after. The new information was put to us late in the day, as indicated in the diary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 106543,
      "EditedText": "You may be aware that Sandy Orr delivered a robust and persuasive statement that confirms your view. The difficulty with deficit budgeting is that, if a company has financial problems during the year, any problematic situation is exacerbated.I did not get the papers until this morning, so I have not read Sandy Orr's submission carefully. However, he talks about being made aware of the perceived non-viability of the business plan for the joint company. I have read comments that suggest either that Sandy Orr shares Mr Trickey's view of the business plan or that he holds to the original view—I would like to pursue that question.I want to ask Graham Berry about the setting of the cost of the \"Macbeth\" production against the 1999-2000 budget. Mr Trickey perceived that as an example of prudent accounting. Was the prudent accounting a significant factor in the crisis that emerged?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 106548,
      "EditedText": "The monitoring system that we apply is the same for every company—we receive the same type of information from them all. There is an equal risk that the other companies might suddenly find themselves in a financial crisis if their financial information was in any way inaccurate or did not take account of the full year's activities. In past years, such matters have emerged in other national companies. The way in which we deal with that is to look for the indicators—the easiest indicator is the cash flow. Several times during the financial year, I pointed out that Scottish Opera's cash-flow forecasts seemed to be inaccurate. Each time, it came back with a revised version that still indicated that it could work through the problem by the end of the year—whatever cash-flow difficulties it had appeared to be short term. The same would apply to other companies. We are not in a position to interrogate and investigate in depth every financial statement that we receive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1683367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 106551,
      "EditedText": "We certainly urged Scottish Opera to appoint a finance director; the absence of one was a serious gap. To be honest, I am not sure why it was difficult to make an appointment. You would have to ask Scottish Opera."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 106553,
      "EditedText": "Scottish Opera did not know the financial situation that it was in, and we had no means of knowing about it. We rely on the board of that major limited company to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C106554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 106554,
      "EditedText": "That was not my question. You know what happened; what are you going to do to prevent it from happening again?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 106559,
      "EditedText": "Brian Monteith wanted to move away from the question of finance to talk about the merger."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 106560,
      "EditedText": "It seems that the minister, the Scottish Arts Council, or perhaps both, are in a hole and are still digging. The first paragraph of the letter from Magnus Linklater to Sandy Orr, which was copied to Sam Galbraith, states:\"The Minister made it clear to us that the proposed merger between the two boards must go ahead and that the proposal currently being discussed by both boards provides the basis on which agreement should be reached. He also reiterated that the additional funding agreed for the companies remains contingent on the merger proceeding.\"I assume that the \"additional funding\" is the additional funding that was being made available to enable the merger to proceed. We have heard much about the Scottish Arts Council being an arm's-length body. That paragraph suggests that you are not and that, as far as the minister is concerned, everything is contingent on your ensuring that the merger goes ahead. Not only is the minister copied in on the letter, but its final line reads:\"The Minister has stressed to us that the additional funding is absolutely contingent on the merger going ahead.\"To what extent do you believe that the Scottish Arts Council is at arm's length in its dealings with the national companies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 106563,
      "EditedText": "Our arm's-length status was mentioned. Funding decisions come through the Parliament and the minister, and how the money is allocated is obviously of ministerial interest. However, we are clearly at arm's length in terms of how money is disbursed through the arts council to the many organisations by various committees. We set out policy objectives, which are published, and we work towards them. We examine those policy objectives annually, determine whether there are any new interests, such as the national theatre, and respond accordingly. The questions about the merger between Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet have centred on funding, and that is why the minister has been involved more directly than would usually be the case. We have to make it clear that normally we have no regular contact with the minister, although that may change given this committee's involvement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2162,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 106575,
      "EditedText": "Item 6 is the improvement in Scottish education bill and the abolition of the Scottish Joint Negotiating Committee. Nicola asked whether this item could be placed on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ID": 2162,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 106577,
      "EditedText": "I share your concerns about the consultation period and the restricted number of people who are being consulted. I suggest that we get back to the Executive in order to note our concerns about who is being consulted on this policy, as it is important that as wide a range of people as possible is given that opportunity. Although I agree that the time scale is rather short, I prefer to allow those people who are being consulted to make their submissions. If we find that people say that they have not had time, we will raise that with the Executive, but at this stage, knowing the pressures that we are under in terms of responding to the bill, I prefer to allow the consultation process to continue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2162,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 106581,
      "EditedText": "The Government is entitled to make further proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2162,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 106583,
      "EditedText": "Unfortunately, the issue arose following the publication of the draft bill—that is why the proposal was added. However, we all seem to share Nicola's concerns about the way in which this matter has been handled. We may wish to pick up that point when we consider the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Thorold (Independent Theatre Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 106357,
      "EditedText": "I am the director of the Independent Theatre Council, which is a UK-wide organisation with 35 members in Scotland, many of which have been mentioned today. I bring a slightly different perspective to this matter, not only because of where I am based and my gender, but because many of the companies that I represent have been missed out of discussions about a national theatre because they work in small communities, have no buildings, are touring companies or are isolated.All of the Scottish members of the Independent Theatre Council want to reach the broadest possible range of Scottish people and to deliver contemporary and artistically excellent work. That can range from projects in schools, village halls and—as will happen next week—your Parliament, to more traditional venues such as the Tron, the Traverse or even on Broadway.We argue against a national building-based theatre. Access would be a problem: not everyone in Scotland could come to a given location, would be able to afford the ticket price that would inevitably be charged by a national body or would feel comfortable in such a building. No single organisation could reflect the diversity of Scotland and its languages and cultures or could cover the range of artistic, educational and social issues that the arts can address. Resources would also be a problem. I do not have to tell anybody here about the expense that national organisations can be to a country, but I will draw the committee's attention to what is happening in Wales, which has had to cut half of its funding for theatre organisations to fund its national theatre. You already have a flexible and diverse national theatre resource, which you risk destroying by focusing the spotlight on one organisation. Scotland needs a coherent national theatre strategy to be developed in partnership with practitioners, and with bodies such as local authorities. We want that strategy to include consideration of the low investment in companies that work at local and community levels, and in companies that are starting out.We are interested in and would support Hamish's proposal. It is important that Scotland examines creatively ways to develop theatre and to increase audiences. Issues of cross-culture, cross-border and international work need to be addressed. I stress that the initiative can work only if it covers all scales and all types of theatrical activity. It must be part of a coherent framework for theatre in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 106365,
      "EditedText": "Do you have difficulty, as an artistic director, in attracting talent, be it technical or artistic, to your theatre because of pay scales and the fact that, although there are a number of centres of excellence, there is no core centre in Scotland? Are you concerned that many actors, technicians and even writers tend to be drawn down to London because that is where the work is and that is where the lights are?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland (Royal Lyceum Theatre, Edinburgh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 106359,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for inviting me before the committee today. I am an actor and director; currently, I am the chief executive of the Royal Lyceum Theatre Company. I will be straightforward and say that I have always wanted to live in a Scotland that had a national theatre. I feel that way not, as some might suspect, purely out of self-interest, but because when, as a completely aimless young man nearly 40 years ago, I discovered the Citizens' Theatre in Glasgow, it had such a profoundly beneficial effect on my life that I want to do everything in my power to ensure that the same opportunity is available to others.The most important questions that any theatre company—never mind a national theatre company—should ask are, \"What can we bring to our audiences?\" and \"Will they support us?\" Scottish audiences have always supported new theatre ventures enthusiastically—the old and new Traverse in Edinburgh, the Tramway and the Tron in Glasgow, and the Lemon Tree in Aberdeen. Touring companies such as 7:84 and Wildcat, and now Suspect Culture and Stellar Quines, have always found an audience. Excellent work has been done, and companies have toured abroad, won prizes and so on.In recent years, that excellence has been hidden behind a blanket of underfunding, which has led to small casts and poor production budgets. The excellence is still there, but it is much more difficult to find. The danger of that is that our audiences may lose confidence in us.Now is definitely the time to find, recognise and support excellence. I believe that the best way of doing that is to establish a Scottish national theatre. The proposed model—an independent commissioning body—is a good one. It would be an innovative way of harnessing all the talent, skill and expertise that already exist in Scotland but that are neither properly funded nor sufficiently focused.However, what could we possibly want from a Scottish national theatre? If all that we want is another building at which the great and good can display themselves, why bother? However, if we want to give the people of Scotland the ability to examine themselves and one another, to find out who they are, to hold their thoughts, beliefs and talents up to the light, to come away proud and to have fun while they are doing all that; if we want to create a voice that will carry throughout the world the message that Scotland is a vibrant, creative, passionate, deeply intelligent, multicultural nation that is proud of its past but looking firmly to the future; and if we want to harness even a fraction of the energy that we have exported to Stratford-on-Avon, the south bank, Broadway and Holywood, we need a Scottish national theatre.Because finance is part of the committee's brief, I will make the point that in recent times any theatre company—unlike opera—that failed to balance its books would simply cease to exist. Imminent execution has concentrated our minds and, despite massive cuts, we manage to survive and put on work that people want to see—the Lyceum's recent production of \"Macbeth\" played to more than 85 per cent capacity over three weeks. That ability to survive no matter what proves that the theatre community knows the value of a pound—certainly, we know the value of £2.1 million. The Lyceum Theatre has lost nearly 25 per cent of its local authority grant in the past six years, but we still maintain a turnover of more than £2 million and manage most years to create a small surplus.We have the talent; we have the expertise; we have the audience—the Lyceum alone plays to more people than Scottish Opera. Now we even have a model that most people, apart from the fearful and the disaffected, think might work. We look to you for the political will to make it happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 106379,
      "EditedText": "As Kenny Ireland was speaking, I was remembering the time—it must have been around 1968—that he came to Clydebank High School with his theatre in education programme. I recall vividly the kids loving being tobacco lords in Glasgow and folk walking about heaving barrels. That was a wonderful tradition, and it owes a great deal to Kenny.Hamish, how do you envisage a national theatre season? Do you envisage a three-week programme—of the sort that the Royal Shakespeare Company runs in Newcastle—being taken around Scotland's cities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 106382,
      "EditedText": "A national theatre would tend to increase the reputation and the status of drama—or theatre as a whole—in Scotland; it would encourage people to take an interest and it would lead to more companies and more activity across the country.Some years ago in Edinburgh, the Advisory Council for the Arts in Scotland organised a conference about the national theatre. The conference was large and very representative of the theatre community. It was addressed by the directors or former directors of the national theatres of Iceland and Finland—small, northern countries like Scotland. They both made the point that their experience was that their national theatres encouraged and helped theatre companies of all kinds over the whole country, and led to a great increase in the number of companies and the size of their audiences. I am sure that a national theatre in Scotland would have similar consequences."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 106383,
      "EditedText": "As someone who has trod the boards in his time, I have been very interested in what the witnesses have been saying."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 106385,
      "EditedText": "You have talked about accessibility and involving children. It may be the case—it very possibly is the case—that we have a finite pot of money, so let me ask you the $64,000 question: how do you suggest that we rechannel funds from the existing arts cash outflow, if you like, to establish and pay for a national theatre? You may not care to answer that one, but I will press you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 106386,
      "EditedText": "Rather than straying into that now, we should, I suggest, give people a chance to think about it, because it is a question that we will come back to. We will move through the other questions, but the witnesses should be warned that we will come back to that one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 106393,
      "EditedText": "May I ask for some clarification? Mr Stone talked about the arts budget, but may we make suggestions about how the money might be found elsewhere?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 106394,
      "EditedText": "You may make lots of suggestions. Laughter. Cathy Peattie would like to ask about the impact that a national theatre could have on existing companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C106397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 106397,
      "EditedText": "Nicola, are you confident that that kind of model would help your companies, or can you see a threat?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Giles Havergal: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 106399,
      "EditedText": "Exactly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 106401,
      "EditedText": "There is a well-understood European model in which an organisation—a national theatre or one of the big ensembles, such as the Maly group—has a direct and on-going relationship with the training organisations. In that way, the training does not exist in isolation; there is a dynamic interchange between training and professional practice. Actors emerge much better equipped for their professional lives and a mutually beneficial dynamic is created between the theatre company and the emerging talent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106408",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 106408,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 106409,
      "EditedText": "What structure would you put in place? Would there be a board? Your idea sounds as though it might be along the lines of the Scottish Arts Council—a body at arm's length from the Government, whose purpose is to distribute Government funds to commission new work. That is not the function of the Scottish Arts Council—although, frankly, it could be, if we wanted that, although I am not suggesting that it should be."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106413",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 106413,
      "EditedText": "I am thinking of a body that does not have a theatre or a building, but has an administration."
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  {
    "ID": "C106423",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 106423,
      "EditedText": "There is certainly consensus. To avoid being reduced to an embarrassed silence, I must stress that the matter will have to be taken on to the next stage and those discussions cannot take place at this committee meeting. To introduce a tiny note of a slightly different colour, I believe that it would be wrong to introduce a completely new infrastructure and set it up in Stornoway, or wherever. We are presuming that a national theatre would be well funded, but I have very skilful, highly committed marketing and management people who are being paid £14,000 or £15,000 a year. If that other infrastructure is created, those people will all disappear too. If I were asked, I would therefore suggest that an existing infrastructure be enhanced. Of course, I am bound to suggest that the Lyceum is quite a good infrastructure to enhance. That does not undermine the principle or the consensus among the witnesses. The national theatre is important and we should not allow ourselves to be drawn down into the Glasgow-Edinburgh debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 106424,
      "EditedText": "I was not trying to do that. I simply wanted to address the point about a permanent base that Paul Scott had written about in his article. I wanted to be clear that we are not talking about a permanent base or building."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 106425,
      "EditedText": "There is a distinction between a base, from which the organisation functions and where the various departments that Hamish Glen described meet, talk and do their work, and the stages where the productions are put on. There must be one heart, one centre, where the organisation and planning can go on, but all the stages in Scotland could be available for productions. That is how I understand the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Giles Havergal: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 106426,
      "EditedText": "When the Federation of Scottish Theatres discussed this issue, we did not go into how it would work. It is certainly true, as Kenny Ireland has suggested, that it could be grafted on to an existing theatre. It could be an independent organisation, comprising a board and a director, although that is not a policy that my chairman, Professor McDonald, would adopt. However, there are organisations to which the national theatre could be attached, such as the federation, the Scottish Arts Council or the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Thorold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 106431,
      "EditedText": "I cannot comment on how much a national theatre might cost; different elements of it would cost different amounts. I feel that such a body should be funded at arm's length from the Government. I do not agree with Paul that a national organisation is already by its nature excluded from political shenanigans or influence. It is clear from the arrangements in England and Wales that politicians get very interested in national companies, and I would want to protect national companies from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 106434,
      "EditedText": "Nicola Sturgeon, did that answer your questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Thorold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 106436,
      "EditedText": "I shall sidestep that question by saying that I think that funding for the national theatre should be consistent with what is decided for the other national companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 106437,
      "EditedText": "Why should national companies be treated differently from the network of theatres in Scotland? What gives national companies the divine right to direct or some other form of funding, sidestepping the Scottish Arts Council? The comments that I have heard seem to damn the Scottish Arts Council with faint praise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 106445,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the impact on the invisible economy would be huge, but the additional money for the arts will have to come from the budgets for local authorities, local development, tourism, or whatever. You have to appreciate that if the money does not come from within the arts budget, there will be an impact on other budgets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 106448,
      "EditedText": "You are right that, ultimately, the Parliament will take that decision. As your organisations have been funded in one way or another, we are interested in your ideas for progress, either for the national theatre or for the national companies more generally. I am surprised that you think that direct funding by the Scottish Executive would be less political—perhaps I have a different view about how politicians think about these matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 106450,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 106452,
      "EditedText": "Please be brief."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Thorold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 106454,
      "EditedText": "I would like to defend the Arts Council. It is not that it could not face the idea of a national theatre; it was aware that the theatre community was not in favour of a building-based national theatre and could not afford it. That explanation should be entered on the record.Perhaps the Arts Council would be more interested in the FST's proposal, which is new and radical, than in previous proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 106457,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 106466,
      "EditedText": "I add to that that we would insist on three criteria: there would be adequate additional funding for the arts; the theatre would impact across Scotland, not just Edinburgh and Glasgow; the scheme would not be detrimental to the existing structure. If those criteria were satisfied, we would be delighted to pursue the scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 106470,
      "EditedText": "I mentioned three criteria. Money is one of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 106472,
      "EditedText": "That paper reports what we found; it does not represent our point of view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 106478,
      "EditedText": "Moving on to point 6, the funding for the initiative is some £2.5 million over three years, which is equivalent to £750,000 a year. Once the current funding commitments have been fulfilled, would it be possible that £750,000—if that remained the allocation—might be available to broaden this initiative into the model that we have heard about? Alternatively, do you believe that the £750,000 a year would have to remain in the current initiative's strategy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 106481,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Our funding has been set for three years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 106482,
      "EditedText": "Can I take you back to your paper and to paragraph 5, \"Developments since 1996\"? The drama department held a conference at the Tramway for about 200 practitioners, which is quite an impressive number. You asked them to rank their priorities. I am interested to see that the sixth priority was:\"Increase funding in a national Resource\".In your oral explanation of some of those other priorities, it struck me that some of them, such as youth work and developing existing theatres, might also be helped by a national resource. Would it be the case that the national resource came sixth because people may have believed that they would not have access to that resource—that it would be elitist or be represented by a building?If we were to conduct that ranking survey again today, based on the model that we have heard about this morning, it might not come sixth, because they might see that the things that were ranked more highly benefited from the proposed model. Is that possible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 106483,
      "EditedText": "It is possible, but I do not think that it can be inferred from the meeting. Children and young people were far and away the most important issue that people identified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 106485,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we have made specific provision for children and young people. We have set the target of ensuring that 20 per cent of the money from our flexible schemes is invested in that area. In the previous spending round, more than 30 per cent went to children's and young people's theatre. We are also funding the task force's research."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 106487,
      "EditedText": "That is true, There has not been a clear consensus. It is to be welcomed that the organisations represented here today have spoken more or less with one voice. One of the key elements that they have identified is that the national theatre should be independent. They have not specified what it should be independent of, but I suspect that they mean independent of any particular theatre organisation. The proposal has a greater chance of success if that remains the case.At the moment, our funds are disbursed through peer group assessment, which works well. It has some drawbacks, as it does not have the same bite that a strategy led by an individual with a vision would have. There is a lot of strength in that idea. The model of Edinburgh International Festival that was referred to is an interesting one, because there we have an organisation with a clear artistic vision, driven by a skilled and knowledgeable individual."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 106490,
      "EditedText": "How many children does he have?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 106491,
      "EditedText": "You do not have to answer that. Carry on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 106496,
      "EditedText": "There is feeling in the committee that we would like to build a closer relationship with the Scottish Arts Council. While not necessarily taking up that suggestion at the moment, we could discuss it at a future date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 106498,
      "EditedText": "We are not hostile to that idea. I explained our three criteria and what was outlined this morning could meet those criteria."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106501",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 106501,
      "EditedText": "We must put it on record that, at this stage, no one is suggesting that there is additional money. We are saying that we must consider the provision, should there not be additional money, and listen to suggestions about how to obtain additional funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 106504,
      "EditedText": "The mood music is not right.I like the model that was suggested this morning, because it does not have the kind of dragging-down baggage that is keeping some of the other companies in a position where their resources are drained and they are better off not performing. This model would be focused and its money would be spent on producing something there and then, and when performances were not being produced, it would not be running itself down. I like that model and I am glad that the witnesses are willing to consider it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 106506,
      "EditedText": "I do not know what evidence there is for that claim, but what we have said this morning surely gives the lie to it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106508",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 106508,
      "EditedText": "As Ian Welsh says, we seem to be engaged in reconciliation. You heard about the model that was proposed this morning along the lines of the Scottish theatre initiative, to which your paper seems initially to be hostile. You now appear to be telling us that you are quite supportive of that model, but that your support is predicated on funding. If funding were available, what do you think would be the role of the Scottish Arts Council? Would you have a strategic role, or would you want a light-on-its-feet administration to decide the strategy?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106511",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 106511,
      "EditedText": "I do not accept that we play an interfering role, but we would have a monitoring role."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106513",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 106513,
      "EditedText": "Over time, different models or quasi-models, some of them not very well developed, have been discussed. The system for funding and resourcing must be defined quite precisely and there is a lot of work to be done on that, but the initiative as it has been described so far sounds to me as if it could reap benefits."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106514",
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    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 106514,
      "EditedText": "You are suggesting that there should be an administrative body to disburse money to companies under various schemes. Paul Scott's approach is exactly the opposite: that a national company should take charge of policy in promoting Scottish theatre. That is quite different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 106518,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. Obviously, although you were in attendance this morning, the matter needs further discussion between yourselves and others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 106522,
      "EditedText": "I have a quick question. Does the level of funding sound right to you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 106525,
      "EditedText": "Much of the evidence has contained general criticism of the SAC. On the one hand, it is said that we monitor and interfere far too much and do not allow boards to run their companies. On the other hand, one would not have said that funders should be able to count the pots of paint used on scenery. There has to be a careful balance between monitoring an accountable limited company, as all of these organisations are, and interfering with directors' responsibilities and eroding such accountability. Although I accept that it is our duty to find the right balance for each set of circumstances, it is a balancing act.I have much direct experience of bodies that distribute a given sum of money to a group of organisations, such as, for example, Government allocations of funding to local government. I was director of finance in Glasgow City Council for 20 years and was a recipient of a revenue support grant. I am currently a board member of two higher education institutions, so I have experience of the way in which the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council distributes money. In my former job in Glasgow, I was responsible for distributing £5 million of grants annually to the cultural sector.The funding body is never loved by the recipients. On the one hand, it is accused of interference; on the other, of not coming in and helping out in specific instances. The usual cry—and one that I have made myself when I was on the other side of the fence—is \"Give us the money and leave us alone.\" However, we must consider accountability. We are talking about public money, so we accept that we must be accountable. As I said earlier, we still believe in the arm's-length principle as set up by Lord Keynes 50 years ago. It has been copied widely elsewhere, it remains valid, and I do not think that anyone has yet come up with a better system.Having said all that, we in the Scottish Arts Council are not complacent about anything. We are in the midst of a major internal reorganisation that will take account of feedback from consultation with our clients. We have a brand-new director with fresh ideas. We have listened carefully to all the points that have been made in this committee, and we look forward to your report. From our next meeting onwards, every one of our meetings will be held in public. We are taking note of what is going on.I have already made the point that we would like to have an annual meeting at which we could look at things in the cool light of day. I ask the committee to consider that seriously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 106527,
      "EditedText": "A number of questions arise, both from what you have said and from the written submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nod Knowles (Scottish Arts Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 106531,
      "EditedText": "The standard way of working was to have an annual cycle for most regularly funded companies; until last summer, there was only an annual cycle. As you will know, we are currently on a three-year funding cycle, which was allocated by the Scottish Office so that we would know what money was available to the Scottish Arts Council over three years. We try to pass on the benefits and security of that three-year time scale to regularly funded organisations.The regular situation would be for companies to submit their three-year plans on a rolling basis, updating and changing their plans every year, to the appropriate committee. Companies—not just national companies—would have a regular annual meeting with us, which would be attended by members of the board and staff of the company and members of our specialist committee. Issues and ideas and the basis of the companies' plans would be talked through.In terms of an overall funding decision process, those plans would then be evaluated against the priorities and criteria that had been set out by the Scottish Arts Council overall and by the individual art form departments. There would then be recommendations about the level of funding resulting from the budget process. Just yesterday, the SAC came full cycle to decide on next year's funds and budgets. The situation of the national companies is different, because of the process that existed until May 1998, with the particular interest of the Scottish Office, to sort out a longer-term basis for the funding of the national companies. A special committee was set up, which included the chairpeople and chief executives of the national companies, representatives of the SAC—our chair and senior management—and an independent chairman, appointed by the Scottish Office, who mediated the whole process.In April 1998, there was an agreement between all the national companies and the independent chair, and the SAC, as to the level of funding of the national companies and the conditions on which that funding was based. We have gone forward on the basis of those understandings. By coincidence, I began as music director about a week before that settlement was completed. I can trace very accurately how we have dealt with it from then on.We have tried to keep our side of the bargain in that series of understandings, and to keep the national companies to their side. Obviously, a big part of that agreement was that the opera and ballet companies should begin to merge their service arrangements into a single company. We have constantly reinforced our concerns about that merger going forward. In April 1998, all the companies were required to produce a balanced budget or an understood budget agreed with the Scottish Arts Council. We have monitored that closely. At the beginning of the current financial year, the companies were clearly asking for the side of the agreement which index-linked their grants to be considered. We considered that in the light of the conditions that were laid down under the overall agreement. The problem with the RSNO, whose index linking was not initially granted in June, was simply that it had not been keeping to the balanced budget and to the series of conditions that been laid down for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 106535,
      "EditedText": "One of the results from the various national companies working parties was that the Scottish Office found an additional £2.4 million, which was not equally spread on an agreed basis among the four companies.Part of the discussion that led to the agreement that that sum of money would be made available was that the £2.4 million was to bring the four companies. in the agreed ratio, to a level which would allow them to operate satisfactorily. The companies accepted that, and the sums were calculated by a firm of independent consultants.There was never a firm commitment, but there was always a suggestion that, after the sum had been identified, SAC ought to increase or inflate it on an annual basis to maintain the funding in relation to increasing prices. It was on that basis that we considered increasing the grants on an inflationary basis from then on.In the case of Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet, we were presented with a joint financial model that forecast the position of the opera and the ballet over a period of three or four years. It was clear from those models that the companies would be able, after an initial difficult year, to break even and, ultimately, to produce small surpluses, but only if they could receive an increase in grant from the SAC that effectively matched inflation.The initial model proposed an increase from the SAC of 3 per cent per annum. We asked them to revise that down to 2.5 per cent, because inflation was falling—it has dropped even lower. In the current financial year, although we received an increase in grant, we significantly increased the drama budget because we wanted to support drama to a greater extent. As has already been mentioned, that was specifically to allow the Scotland on stage scheme to proceed. Unfortunately, that did not leave sufficient funds to provide a full 2.5 per cent increase to the four national companies.In the current year, we were able to increase the grants to the national companies by about 1.25 per cent on average. That turns out to be pretty close to inflation anyway. When we realised that we could not provide what was regarded as a full inflation increase for the current year, we agreed to provide 1.25 per cent this year, but a larger increase in the next financial year—2000-01. The agreed grant increase to the national companies next year is in the order of 3.7 per cent—almost 3.75 per cent, in fact. That counterbalances the lesser increase that we were able to provide this year.That is a roundabout way of answering the question. We awarded Scottish Opera an increase because its forward plans looked robust and were presented to us on the basis that they would work, and because it was suggested that an additional input from the SAC was needed. At a meeting earlier this year, the council discussed that long and hard and agreed that it could offer Scottish Opera the additional money that it had requested. The other national companies were also brought into the loop."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 106537,
      "EditedText": "I would not accept that. We receive exactly the same sort of information from each of the national companies and each of the companies that we support. We ask them to submit budgets, annual accounts, monthly accounts and cash flows. In the case of the national companies, professional staff are engaged in preparing those documents and, like the companies' boards, we accept them. We do not have sufficient resources to interrogate the documents in great depth to establish whether they are incorrect. We receive them in the belief that they are accurate and clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 106545,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, I should mention that Sandy Orr says that it now appears that there is little or no overspend on \"Macbeth\".When I worked in a local authority, people like Bill English advised me on budgeting procedures. There are prudent accountancy measures as well as measures that are not necessarily prudent but are okay. Do you think that Ruth Mackenzie's approach would be more robust? Would her approach have made a significant difference to the way in which the accounts came out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 106546,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure what the question is. There are different styles of accounts. When it comes to monitoring an organisation's progress against budget, there are monthly, bi-monthly or quarterly management accounts. In my view, those should account for all the activity that is taking place in the financial year. In the preparation of statutory annual accounts, different accounting principles come into play. It is quite proper to carry forward the expenses of a production that will be used at the beginning of the next financial year. However, I do not think that it would be prudent to capitalise the cost of productions and write them off over a 10-year period or whatever—that would be imprudent in the circumstances faced by arts organisations. Such things should be included in the management accounts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1683367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 106549,
      "EditedText": "Can we try to keep questions short?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1683367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 106555,
      "EditedText": "As I said, we try to maintain a balance, monitoring but not interfering. We rely on information, but we also learn from experience and we will learn from that one. We will have to examine the track record of companies that give us information; some companies may have to be monitored and interrogated in a different way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 106557,
      "EditedText": "Separately from the events of the past few months, our monitoring process was already under review; it continues to be reviewed. There is also what is known as the three-month report, which examines the lessons that have been learned, how the circumstances that we have been discussing came about and how we can go forward from there. There may have to be closer monitoring at some stages, or there may have to be an internal auditing procedure. The remit of that report is being drawn up by the Scottish Executive and we are happy to work towards completing that as quickly as possible so that the way in which we work in future will be clear to all parties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C106558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 106558,
      "EditedText": "The committee would like to see that report as soon as it is drawn up and revisit the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 106561,
      "EditedText": "It has been put to the committee that only the Scottish Arts Council is still in favour of the merger. Can you comment on that, too?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 106564,
      "EditedText": "But the minister was involved yet again when additional funding was needed to bail out Scottish Opera."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2161,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2161,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 106568,
      "EditedText": "I ask Gillian Baxendine to update us on the inquiry into special educational needs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2161,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2161,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 106571,
      "EditedText": "Do we have any information from the Executive on whether it intends to delay its consideration of the Riddell report? Although the report was four months late, the Executive did not alter the consultation period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2161,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 106572,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the Executive has just finished its consultation exercise and will consider the comments received. It is expected that the Executive will proceed with the recommendations, as suitably amended in the light of that consultation. It would be open to the committee to take up that matter with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2161,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 106573,
      "EditedText": "We should not forget that the Riddell report and the subject of special educational needs are mutually inclusive. Did the committee discuss at the previous meeting the appointment of a special adviser, which Mike Russell raised at the meeting before that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2161,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 106574,
      "EditedText": "We did not discuss the special adviser, but we will include that in next week's discussion, should we decide to proceed with the inquiry—the committee will have to make that decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1837,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 106585,
      "EditedText": "Okay. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 106534,
      "EditedText": "For the purposes of this discussion, I am less concerned about hearing why the RSNO did not get index-linked funding as I am about why Scottish Opera did, if you were applying consistent criteria across the national companies. You say that the RSNO did not fulfil those criteria and had financial difficulties. Fair enough—I accept that part of your answer—but surely if those criteria were being applied across the board, Scottish Opera would not have had a chance of getting the funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 106539,
      "EditedText": "Could it not be argued that the figures that have been presented to you are, to some extent, meaningless, if after having gone through that process one can still end up in the situation that Scottish Opera got itself into?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 106541,
      "EditedText": "How does that square with the fact that you were ignorant of the position of Scottish Opera until the very last minute?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2162,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 106578,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that we respond to the letter—in any event, yesterday was the closing date for comments, so the deadline has passed. All I am asking is that we put on record our disquiet about the lack of consultation—the fact that the proposal was not included in the original consultation exercise and that it has been introduced at a later stage without any opportunity for public comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 1 December 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2158,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 106353,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:43"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Mary Mulligan): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 106354,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the witnesses to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, and I thank you for your attendance.As you will be aware, the committee is considering the structure, organisation and finance of the national arts companies. We thought that this would be a good opportunity to raise again the issue of a national theatre in Scotland. We want to hear as many views as possible as to how, or whether, that should be progressed. We have asked for written submissions for our deliberations. The closing date for those is not until next Monday, but we have invited a number of people who have expressed an interest to speak to the committee and to answer any questions that committee members may have. I hope that we will have a free and frank discussion about the issue, as it has been talked about for some time. With the coming of the Scottish Parliament, we would like to think that we could have a positive discussion about the matter.A number of you provided written submissions prior to your attendance this morning. We will give each of you a few minutes to introduce your position on a national theatre. I say a few minutes because, as usual, we are controlled by time and committee members have a substantial number of questions that they want to ask. However, please feel free to make your prepared statements.Witnesses should start by introducing themselves and saying where they come from. That will be useful for the committee members and members of the public who are here this morning. We will start with Hamish Glen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Scott (Saltire Society): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 106358,
      "EditedText": "I am the president of the Saltire Society. I want to say how grateful I am to the committee for the opportunity to express the views of the Saltire Society on this important question. The society, along with many other organisations and individuals in Scotland, has campaigned consistently for a Scottish Parliament and for more than 60 years for a national theatre. Now that we have the Parliament, the national theatre is the only vital institution that Scotland still needs.I welcome and agree with the sentiments and aspirations expressed by Hamish Glen and the interesting proposal that he made.It is an historical accident that Scotland has national companies for opera and ballet, art forms in which we have little claim to distinctive traditions of our own, but not for drama, in which we have a substantial body of work and our own styles of performance.Without a national company committed to Scottish drama, new Scottish plays tend to disappear after only a few performances. We need a national theatre to give the Scottish tradition an impulse and a focus. Experience in other countries has shown that their national theatres stimulate not only drama but literature generally and the cultural life of the community. They enhance cultural confidence and are an important means of self-expression and self-understanding.Scotland has waited a long time for a national theatre. The establishment of a national theatre would be an exciting and encouraging start to the new millennium. The paper that was circulated by the Scottish Arts Council says that it has not formally considered a national theatre since 1996, which surprises me, as it announced the findings of the second feasibility study in July 1997. At that time, it issued an official statement saying that it would review the situation in two years' time.The Scottish Arts Council has always sought to transform the idea of a national theatre into what it calls an initiative or a fund, which it would administer. That would give the SAC extra power but would give no power to Scottish theatre as a corporate body. There is no substitute for an organisation that develops its own policy, character and ethos.In support of its policy, the SAC has argued that there is no demand for a new building or company. No one would argue that a new building is necessary, because we already have a sufficient number of fine or adequate theatres in Scotland. In the past, the SAC has said that there is no need for a company or, by implication, any kind of organisation. Paragraph 2.1 of its paper qualifies that by speaking of\"a national theatre company based on an existing company\".However, that contradicts what paragraphs 7.1 and 7.5 say about the need to build on existing infrastructure.If drama is allowed to remain the only form of the performing arts without a national company or organisation, it will remain the poor relation. One point on which we can all agree is that a national theatre should not be funded at the expense of existing companies. It requires additional funding of its own. I am sure that that would be money well spent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 106367,
      "EditedText": "What would be the difference between, for example, rehearsal times for a production that you put on at the Dundee Rep Theatre and a work that you were commissioned to do for the Edinburgh international festival by the national theatre?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 106370,
      "EditedText": "I would like to move the discussion on a bit, while remaining on the topic of the benefits of a national theatre. Kenny Ireland gave an impassioned speech about the inspiration that people can draw from theatre. I would like us to explore the educational role of a national theatre and how we can take theatre and its benefits to young people. I do not know whether this is accurate, but I was told recently that only 25 per cent of secondary schools in Scotland have a drama teacher. Do you think that one benefit of the national theatre would be to put in place a national strategy to ensure that young people had early access to theatre and its educational benefits?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 106371,
      "EditedText": "I can say without fear of contradiction that almost everybody who runs a theatre company in Scotland is committed to education work. Ours is expanding all the time, but it is funded by a fairly small grant from the local authority, which, along with a lottery grant, pays the wages of only one person. Next year, the three youth theatres that we formed this year might have to stop if we cannot find matching funding for our lottery grant. In this area, we work very much hand to mouth. Like Billy Paterson, I started at the Theatre for Youth at the Citizens' Theatre, which became TAG. Many Scottish actors started off working in theatre in education. That was a wonderful thing, but it has disappeared completely. It could be brought back and, if it were funded properly, it could become a major part of a new national theatre."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Thorold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 106378,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 106380,
      "EditedText": "There is no absolute blueprint. What I have tried to outline is a vision of how this project might go forward and how it would be supported. It would make sense to have a season of work on various scales, which would play in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Dundee during the year. However, because some areas might not have access to that work, we need to consider ways in which we might extend its availability to audiences that would not otherwise have the opportunity to see it. The season might not be the same in all places—the national theatre might commission work specifically for audiences in the Highlands and Islands, for example, while other work played in the major urban centres."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 106391,
      "EditedText": "Money is being spent on the arts; to establish a national theatre there may be a cost. How do you recommend that we should rechannel funds towards its establishment, if it is to be established?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C106395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 106395,
      "EditedText": "Hamish Glen has already answered part of my question. You said, Hamish, that you felt that local companies would benefit from having a national company, and I can see the logic in that. However, there is evidence that the Royal National Theatre in England drains resources from the smaller companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 106396,
      "EditedText": "The crucial difference is in the model. If there is a big building in one place, which consistently offers better working conditions—for example, more exposure and higher pay—that will clearly drain talent and funding away from regional and smaller theatre companies. The model that we are proposing specifically suggests that the work that is created by the national theatre company should be built on the existing infrastructure, thus providing better value for the investment that has already been made, raising the standards and skills of all those involved and providing opportunities in all disciplines for people to pursue their work to the highest possible quality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Giles Havergal: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 106403,
      "EditedText": "The whole point of this proposal is that it is the exact opposite of a drain because it injects more money to help existing companies, both to do more work at a higher level and to tour more. The drain that unquestionably exists in England would not happen here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 106406,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 106407,
      "EditedText": "You are? Do you think that it would be a bad idea for Scotland? Ignoring its location on the south bank and considering only the idea of having such a national company, are you against it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hamish Glen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 106412,
      "EditedText": "In what sense?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 106422,
      "EditedText": "From what Hamish Glen said, I assumed that the Scottish national theatre could be in a back hall in Stornoway, in the Gaiety Theatre in Ayr, or wherever the company was performing. I want to be clear about this, because it is a question that Brian Monteith raised when we first considered the issue some weeks ago. I have reservations about the notion that our national theatre should simply be a building. I would like to know whether there is consensus on that, or whether the directors are reduced to an embarrassed silence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 106429,
      "EditedText": "I think that funding must come directly from Government; it cannot come through the Scottish Arts Council. The reasoning behind that opinion is that the Scottish Arts Council should have a brief to introduce as much new work as possible and to spread out the money that is spent on the arts as broadly as possible, in geographical and artistic terms. The national theatre's brief, on the other hand, has to be to pursue excellence, which represents a slight contradiction to the SAC's brief. As to cost, I could hide behind the claim that a national theatre would cost less than an opera company: £2 million would be a very good start, but it would really depend on what was wanted. If we want to provide access for everybody in the Borders and the north-west to a mobile theatre with more than 400 seats, a one-off capital payment would be essential. If we want to run the theatre properly, we may need at least £4 million or £5 million. We have discussed the costs, but we are presented with so many figures that it is difficult to say exactly how much money would be needed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106430",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 106430,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Kenneth that funding should come directly from the Government. I think that that should apply to all the national companies. National arts companies should be treated in the same way as other national cultural institutions, such as the National Library of Scotland, the museums and the galleries, which are the direct responsibility of Government. I do not say that to do down the Scottish Arts Council, which does splendid work in many areas. As Kenny said, the proper function of the Scottish Arts Council is to do the difficult job of deciding priorities among all the conflicting claims from arts organisations. A body needs to do that job, and it should be a hands-off body at one remove from the Government so that no suspicion of political prejudice or bias ever comes into the process. None of that applies to the national companies, which are established and accepted as deserving funding. Their aim is to produce the best possible work to the highest possible standards, so they should be allowed to get on with that without a body such as the Scottish Arts Council sitting on top of them. The Scottish Arts Council is unbalanced by the fact that the major share of the funds it administers has to go to the national companies, leaving only a relatively small sum to be divided among all the other arts projects. Smaller arts organisations are in competition with the national companies. Direct funding and separate treatment would remove that element of competition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Giles Havergal: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 106432,
      "EditedText": "To answer Nicola Sturgeon's first question, one could arrive at the amount that one wanted to spend in two ways. One could say, \"The new Scottish Parliament has this much money to spend on a national theatre. What can you do for that?\" Alternatively, one could say, \"We want an experimental wing, an educational wing and a big-scale wing to start with. How much would that cost and can somebody draw up a budget?\" One could arrive at a funding arrangement in either way.However—this may answer Mr Stone's question—I am concerned by the rechannelling of funding. From the very beginning, Hamish Glen has said that none of us will sign up to the idea of a national theatre if it will involve taking money from existing bodies. We hope and suppose that the new Scottish Parliament will want a new initiative and will put more into the arts to create a Scottish national theatre based on the current infrastructure of the Scottish national theatre community, as we call it. I think that this will answer Nicola Sturgeon's question as well as Jamie Stone's. I am not so concerned about whether the money is distributed through the Scottish Arts Council. The way in which the Parliament will want to distribute arts funding—through the Scottish Arts Council or through a ministry of culture—is something that I assume members will debate over the next few years. I think that the funding structure for the national theatre will simply be a part of that game, but that is a little way down the road at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 106441,
      "EditedText": "Let us get to the nub of the matter. You are saying that your funding would be more secure—less susceptible to the whim of another body—if it were in the hands of the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 106444,
      "EditedText": "No. I agree completely with Giles Havergal that we would not be interested in carving up the cake in a different way. As I said, everybody is only just surviving, and there is no way that the cake can be carved up more. I do not believe that a huge amount of money is needed. I do not have the figures to hand, but I think that the economic impact of the Edinburgh festival on Edinburgh runs into billions—it is huge. As Hamish Glen said, do not underestimate what we could earn."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Giles Havergal: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 106447,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that whether the national theatre and the other national companies are funded directly by the Government is not what we are meant to discuss here. The answer will emerge from how the Parliament wants to fund the arts. You may want to use the Scottish Arts Council or another arm's-length group, or to do it in-house. I agree that nobody has a divine right to have special funding in a special way, but the national companies' funding is part of the wider question of how the new Parliament wants to fund the arts. Does it want to adopt the English model, or do something completely different?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 106451,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry; that is not from that submission.I would like to hear the views of all the witnesses about that argument about the SAC. Paul Scott implied that the SAC was blocking the development of the national theatre. Is the SAC against a national theatre?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kenny Ireland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 106455,
      "EditedText": "I was one of the people who presented this model to the FST, with the idea that the Scottish Arts Council could not carry it forward. It was rightly feared that the juggernaut would get out of control and that it would become a drain on the other companies. The Scottish Arts Council has not considered this model at all. Maybe it will change its mind once it has."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 106456,
      "EditedText": "You will be aware that we will meet witnesses from the Scottish Arts Council after this discussion. I am sure that members will wish to pursue that issue with them.I thank you all for attending this meeting and answering our questions so clearly. A number of issues have been raised that the committee will wish to discuss further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English (Scottish Arts Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 106460,
      "EditedText": "First, I apologise for the fact that our chairman, Magnus Linklater, cannot be present. I am a member of council. The good news is that we have the same team of experts as we had at the committee before. I am sure that they will be able to help the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 106463,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I will ask Ian Jenkins to open the questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 106464,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that people are criticising the Arts Council's work in drama across the country, nurturing different types of theatre. It seems that, in dealings with the Saltire Society and others, the SAC has been reluctant to embrace the idea of a national theatre. Magnus Linklater was quoted at one stage as saying that the SAC did not want another millstone round its neck."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 106465,
      "EditedText": "Any reluctance would be coloured by the fear that a national theatre would threaten what already exists. One must be honest about that. If that fear can be removed, we are talking about a different ball game. There is also a fear of institutionalisation. The arts flourish where there is energy, excitement and ambition; institutions can sometimes suppress that. One would always want the wild cards to get their chance to be played, and to allow a throughput of young talent. That is not to say that a national institution would preclude that, but one must ensure that those opportunities exist."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 106467,
      "EditedText": "I accept that. However, can you understand that there is a feeling that the idea of a national theatre, as we heard this morning, would create opportunities to focus? People would support the idea with funds and the national theatre would become an ambassador. However well they do things, Dundee Repertory Theatre and the Citizens' Theatre, for example, do not have that sort of status. If you can say to us that the other national companies have that status, why should a national theatre not have it too? What about the extra energy that would come from that sort of status?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 106473,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 106475,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 106488,
      "EditedText": "The Edinburgh International Festival is funded by the Scottish Arts Council to the tune of almost £800,000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 106492,
      "EditedText": "I am the one asking the questions.I will come to the heart of the matter. Could you comment on what we heard earlier this morning about the given weeks in which there has to be funding, and about the fact that that funding has to be suitably sized and to have some continuity? I would like to hear your thoughts on the method of channelling funds, whether it should be through the SAC or directly from the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 106493,
      "EditedText": "One of the points that was made this morning was that there had to be a body to organise the concept of a national theatre, and the Edinburgh International Festival model has just been mentioned. We do not say that there should not be such a body. The question is whether that body should be financed in the same way as the festival and the national companies currently are, or directly by the Parliament.In our view, the concept of an arm's-length body such as the Scottish Arts Council has stood the test of time. From the point of view of the arts—and I should point out that all of us have been on both sides of the arts—I do not see an advantage in the funding of the body that organises a national theatre being handled directly by the Scottish Executive. This committee has so much to do, within its broad remit, that it cannot devote as much time or effort to that as the 15 members of the SAC can. I would have to be convinced that there is a better model than the current one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C106494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 106494,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Arts Council existed under another style of government. Now that we are in a new age, do you see a different relationship, one in which the SAC works in conjunction with the committee, the Scottish Executive and the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 106495,
      "EditedText": "I was hoping to get a chance at some stage to suggest that once a year, the SAC could come to the committee, say what we have been doing, outline current issues and exchange views—not in the atmosphere of a particular problem or crisis—in a positive dialogue. That sort of thing could not have been achieved under the previous political structure. That is one of the great advantages of the new structure, and I hope that you agree to my suggestion. We could schedule a formal meeting every year, so that it would not just be when there was a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 106497,
      "EditedText": "I have a quick question along the same lines as that of Jamie Stone. What was your reaction to the fact that everyone who spoke to us this morning was in favour of a national theatre? Everyone agreed with the idea of a commissioning national theatre, rather than a building-based one. Your paper is rather neutral, but the evidence that we heard this morning suggested that the SAC is hostile to the idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 106500,
      "EditedText": "Our paper reflects what we found when we consulted the constituency in the past. If there is a new upsurge of interest in the matter, that is great. However, we would still say that there are three criteria to be met before we will profess that. I suspect that there has not been such an upsurge in the constituency previously because most of us assumed that there would not be extra money. Now that we know you have access to money that no one else did—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 106502,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to your paper. In paragraph 7.1, you say\"There is a strong argument against creating any additional infrastructure to deliver the desired objectives of any National Theatre Initiative.\"In paragraph 7.3, you say\"A number of observers have noticed that there is not a clear artistic imperative for the establishment of a Scottish National Theatre.\"You quote someone from The Herald and you say:\"There is evidence that existing companies are able to scale-up when they have resources to create work, which might be regarded as having national status in terms of its ambition, size, or ability to represent Scotland.\"Those comments sound like a negative way of talking about what we have been discussing today. I am delighted to hear that that is not the case. However, your paper reads very negatively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 106515,
      "EditedText": "When we begin to discuss details, different views emerge. Most people seem to favour a commissioning or producing body. The role of a producer involves much more than just funding; it involves identifying strong artistic people, bringing them together in a shared vision and providing them with the wherewithal to carry out their aims. I absolutely accept that that is beyond the role of a funding body. We would not welcome a mini funding body, which would be a group deciding who to fund this year. That would not be a step forward, because it would only replicate SAC structures, in which a group of theatre practitioners agree where funding should go and develop strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 106516,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly the point on which we were pushing other witnesses this morning, and they were quite clear that the work would not replicate the work of the SAC. Your first answer this morning implied that you would use existing companies and notch them up a couple of steps, which does not fit with my interpretation of what has been said this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 106517,
      "EditedText": "An example of the model that we have been talking about is \"Life is a Dream\", which was produced by the Royal Lyceum with investment and artistic input from the Edinburgh International Festival. However, we have not had a lot of time to discuss the matter in detail. Our paper was written without the benefit of the latest view of the Federation of Scottish Theatres."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 106520,
      "EditedText": "There has not been much discussion on this issue in the theatre world over the previous 18 months or two years. As I said in our paper, the matter has not been raised with us in formal meetings. Perhaps people were waiting until the Parliament was in existence to bring the matter up. There now seems to be a new frame of mind around. The proposal is not completely new and develops previous ideas that were discussed in earlier reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2159,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson (Scottish Arts Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 106526,
      "EditedText": "Some of your questions may address some statements and allegations that have come up over the past week or so, including some from as recently as yesterday and the press this morning. One or two clear comments from the SAC might be helpful.A lot of the business of this committee over the past few weeks was perhaps sparked off by very particular questions about Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet. We all, including the SAC, welcome the wider questions, and especially this morning's questions, which are fundamental to the future development of the cultural life of Scotland.I would like to make one or two specific points, firstly about Scottish Opera and its financial difficulties. As I hope that we did on our first visit to this committee a couple of weeks ago, we want to make a strong statement: we were not aware of the financial crisis. We have presented a diary that lays out exactly when we knew what and from whom. We want to restate that, and I am happy to answer further questions on that. The difficulties were way beyond our capability, especially at this point in the financial year. If we had known about them, we would have made some moves to deal with them earlier.Our relationship with the interim chief executive at Scottish Opera has been very clear. We are the monitoring and funding body. We did not employ that individual; he was appointed by the joint working party. I make that point to reiterate SAC's role across arts organisations. We are there, as Bill English has said, to monitor the use of public funds. We need to ensure that processes are properly gone through, without getting involved in some of the specific detail.We refute both the accusation that the Scottish Arts Council acts as shadow directors and the claim, which I have read, that the Scottish Arts Council has been running Scottish Opera for four years. If you read the minutes, as I have done in the past seven weeks as a newcomer to all this, our role is very clear: it is one of observing and advising. In some specific cases, we have been asked to become more involved, and that has been clearly documented.It has been difficult for these two important organisations to move towards closer working. Some of the personnel have changed through that process, and the story is quite difficult to follow. However, I think that our role has been constant, although at some times we have been asked to be more involved than at other times, when there have been difficulties to be got over.The background to asking a particular chair to resign was the moving of two companies towards closer working. Representatives of both those companies agreed how that should be done. It was discussed with the SAC present and it was discussed with Sam Galbraith. It was then reiterated back to the companies as the process that had been fully agreed by all parties concerned. I do not think that anyone could read that as a forcing of a resignation. Various documents, which I will not quote now but would be happy to provide to the committee, make that very clear.On a more positive note, the climate has clearly changed, and opportunities for the arts and cultural development have changed. The Parliament may well wish to set new priorities—we are very interested in hearing those new priorities—so that the Parliament can redefine not only the work that should be supported and enabled in Scotland, but what the SAC's role in that would be. Although it is a shame that it has come about because of particular difficulties, we welcome the wider discussion. We want to be sure that the facts behind those difficulties are known, but also that they do not subvert the valuable wider discussions that we are having. Those discussions need your attention, they perhaps need more time, and they need the representations that you have heard this morning and those of many other people who have not been able to take part in the three meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry (Scottish Arts Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 106530,
      "EditedText": "I will give an outline of the process, and leave it to Nod Knowles, the music director, to talk specifically on how the individual committees look at it.For many years, the council had a standstill grant. There was no increase at all coming from what was then the Scottish Office. We allocated funds from our annual budget, which historically had been divided up between the various art forms that we support: visual arts, crafts, dance, drama and so on. Each of the committees that was responsible for those art forms was allocated a sum from the overall amount of money that was available. The committees then considered the funds that they had available and the guidance that they received on the council's priorities and decided on allocations to individual organisations.In drama, the committee considered the building-based and touring companies, and so on, and also allocated sums to schemes to support specific activities. Nod Knowles will talk about the process within committees and will answer the specific question on the national companies involved in music."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 106532,
      "EditedText": "I think that we had provided a copy of the letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nod Knowles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 106540,
      "EditedText": "Scottish Opera's figures have been consistently good and well presented, if we leave aside the difficulty that we are now discussing. Having trailed the figures that were presented by Scottish Opera's professionals over several years, we have not found them to be wildly adrift, at least not during the time that I have been involved. We have been able to check Scottish Opera's figures carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 106544,
      "EditedText": "The effect of the \"Macbeth\" production is significant, but it is not the only factor. Scottish Opera felt that, because the majority of the production's performances would take place in the following financial year, the costs could be held over until that financial year. Because the costs overran a little and because the co-production income that it was expecting did not materialise—and will not do so in the current financial year—it decided, on the advice of the interim chief executive, that it would be financially more prudent to assume the full costs of \"Macbeth\" within the financial year in which the production was made and the first performances given. That was a much more prudent method of accounting, although it had a detrimental effect on the accounts for that year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1527137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 106547,
      "EditedText": "Your explanation of the monitoring system—that you treat the national companies equally—suggests that the other national companies could, perhaps with a history of failing to deal with their financial difficulties, get into the same difficulties of being 48 hours away from closure. If the monitoring systems for Scottish Opera are the same as for the RSNO, the suggestion is that the same problem could occur. However, if you say that you were on top of the situation but that you were not provided with clear information, that would suggest that the real problem is either that Scottish Opera has a culture that tends towards deficits or that the company has been run by individuals who operate a system that your monitoring—which is effective for all the other companies—does not pick up. Would you expect similar difficulties to arise in the other national companies or do you believe that what we are talking about is a cultural problem at Scottish Opera? Do you believe that individuals were responsible for the difficulty and that things are under control now that Mr Trickey is responsible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1683367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 106550,
      "EditedText": "I raised the question of culture because it was clear from the presentations from all the national companies that there was some disparity in their approaches to artistic commitments once they were aware of financial difficulties. All the companies except Scottish Opera began to review their artistic commitments in those circumstances. In some cases, they had to postpone or withdraw completely some of their commitments. I am interested in what Graham Berry said about cash-flow information. From the diary that was provided to us, it was clear that the cash-flow information suggested that there was a problem a month after the departure of the financial director of Scottish Opera. Did the Scottish Arts Council press for the appointment of a new financial director? Did the urge to merge the ballet and opera companies get in the way of such an appointment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1683367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C106552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 106552,
      "EditedText": "Having read all the papers and having sat through this meeting and studied the Official Report of the previous one, it strikes me that a similar situation could yet arise in any of the national companies. What is the Scottish Arts Council doing to prevent that? An infinite amount of money is not available, but no Government, Parliament or committee would tell a company such as Scottish Opera, \"Sorry, but there's no more money.\" The national companies can take the risk of running £2 million over budget because they know that we will bail them out. That is a worrying state of affairs. What I have heard this morning has not convinced me that the Scottish Arts Council has any systems in place, formal or informal, that can change what is happening in the national companies or allow it to monitor more closely how a company can run up a £2 million deficit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C106556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 106556,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned that, every year, this Parliament may have to spend more than £2 million that could be spent on education or health on companies that have run up a deficit. What will the SAC, the body with overarching responsibility for those companies, do to ensure that that does not happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 106562,
      "EditedText": "As for the minister's involvement, I must emphasise the fact that the Government provided the extra money specifically for the merger. It was not given to the Scottish Arts Council to decide what to do about it; it was conduited through the council, but the Government decided what was to happen to it. On that occasion, we were implementing a Government policy rather than making decisions of our own.On the claim that we are the only people supporting the merger, as long as the companies believe that the merger will have no artistic demerit and will have financial merit, we support it. If at any stage the companies tell us that that is not the case, there would be no reason for us to support a merger. In the circumstances described, however, the merger is a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 106565,
      "EditedText": "That is true. As we said before, we went to the Scottish Executive because, as the problem arose late in—or at least halfway through—the financial year, we did not have the funding to deal with it. Where else could we go but to the Scottish Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2159,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2159,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 106566,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry but I will have to wind up this part of the meeting as other agenda items are outstanding. There are a number of issues on which we would have liked to question you, particularly on funding for education and your relationship with the trade unions, although you started to deal with that matter in your paper. However, we will put additional questions to you in writing so that you can address them more fully, if that would be acceptable. I thank you for coming back to us this morning. We will discuss the timing for the committee's report, about which you will be kept informed. I ask those people who are leaving to respect the fact that the meeting is continuing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Forum for Teachers of Religious Education",
      "HeadingID": 2160,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 2160,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 106567,
      "EditedText": "Item 4 on the agenda is the European forum for teachers of religious education and the conference in 2001. I am pleased to say that Jamie Stone has agreed to liaise with the conference organisers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2161,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ID": 2161,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 106569,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Parliament information centre has been considering on-going work in this area and has offered to provide a short paper for the next meeting. The paper will suggest how our inquiry could fit into work that the Executive is conducting and into the Executive's time scale. The inquiry might be more usefully discussed in the context of that paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2161,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ID": 2161,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 106570,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we put that item on the agenda for next week. We do not want to find that we are out of sync with the Riddell report or that we are duplicating work that has already been undertaken as recently as the past three to six months. If we receive a paper from SPICe that updates us on that work, we will be able to decide how to progress the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ID": 2162,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 106579,
      "EditedText": "Are you happy to proceed as I suggested? We will say that we are concerned about the time scale and about the restricted number of people who have been asked to provide comments, but that we will await the outcome of the consultation exercise to see whether those who are being consulted raise that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ID": 2162,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 106584,
      "EditedText": "We must emphasise the point that this letter went out for consultation on 11 November, but the statement on which it is based was made on 22 September. Why did it take six weeks to set up a 19-day consultation period?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ID": 2162,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 106586,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:32."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1839669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 01 Dec 1999",
      "ID": 532
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-12-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2162,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ID": 2162,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 106580,
      "EditedText": "We know the outcome of the consultation—the letter tells us the outcome, which is another matter for concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Monday 29 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 19347,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19347,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 638608,
      "EditedText": "I have apologies from Fergus Ewing, David Mundell and Trish Godman. Ian Welsh has advised us that he might be delayed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638610,
      "EditedText": "The suggestion is the same for section 20, although our lawyer, Margaret Macdonald, has advised that the Executive has accepted our position. We are grateful that it has generously taken on board the points that we raised. Again, this is a matter that we should draw to the attention of Parliament, but we are perfectly satisfied with it.On section 74—the Henry VIII powers, which we flagged up—it is suggested again that, in view of the undertaking given by the Executive, this is an acceptable compromise and that we should alert the Parliament and the lead committee to the proposed amendment. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 19349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 638612,
      "EditedText": "Sections 2(7) and 9 of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill concern rules of court about which various points have been raised. We are grateful for the explanation that is given. It is more a matter of policy as to whether matters are dealt with by a rule of court or through legislation. Perhaps we could flag that up for the lead committee to discuss. We can formulate our own views as individuals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 19349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 638614,
      "EditedText": "On sections 5, 34, and 58(11) it is suggested that we should draw the attention of Parliament and the lead committee to the Executive's response. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 19349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 638615,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 1 of schedule 6 also relates to the matter of the rules of court, which we are noting, drawing to the attention of Parliament, and flagging up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Monday 29 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 19347,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19347,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638607,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:45"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Council Tax (Exempt Dwellings) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/140)",
      "HeadingID": 19350,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 19350,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 638616,
      "EditedText": "Moving on to Executive responses on statutory instruments, there was a delay over SSI 1999/140 for which the Executive has held up its hands. We are grateful for that. Is it agreed that we should draw the attention of Parliament to this statutory instrument?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19352,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 19352,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 638620,
      "EditedText": "I wholeheartedly concur. We are grateful for the lawyer's explanation of how it happened. I have some sympathy, as I would not want to legislate twice over on the breeding and sale of dogs or whatever."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638609,
      "EditedText": "Some points were raised at the previous meeting about the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill, in particular about section 5(1). That point was drawn to the attention of the Executive, which has responded to us. The legal briefing suggests that we draw the attention of the Parliament to the explanation given, which fully clarifies matters, and advise that we are content with the use of the powers and procedures. Is that acceptable?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19348,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19348,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638611,
      "EditedText": "The proposed change of moving to affirmative procedures is welcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19349,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 19349,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 638613,
      "EditedText": "The Justice and Home Affairs Committee will want to be aware of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Partial Revocation) (No 2) (Scotland) Order<br />(SI 1999/141)",
      "HeadingID": 19351,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ID": 19351,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 638617,
      "EditedText": "The position is similar for SSI 1999/141."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19352,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 19352,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 638618,
      "EditedText": "This is one of the unusual matters filtering through. Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) (No 2) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 19352,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 19352,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 638619,
      "EditedText": "The only thing to note is that there appear to be different procedures for different bills that began before the Scotland Act 1998 was enacted. We could do with some consistency of approach.The other question is whether, as a general principle, we want many acts on devolved matters to be initiated by Westminster. This is a minor issue, but we might wish more substantial matters to be dealt with through the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 3) (Scotland) Partial Revocation Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/144)<br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Partial Revocation Order 1999 (SSI 1999/145)",
      "HeadingID": 19353,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 19353,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 638621,
      "EditedText": "Moving now to instruments not subject to parliamentary procedure, legal advice is that there is nothing in these instruments to which we should draw the attention of the lead committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 19354,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 19354,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 638622,
      "EditedText": "Our final item is the letter to the Minister for Parliament. In our pre-meeting, we noted that, rather than deal with this matter piecemeal, it might be better to wait until we are better represented and have received a fuller response on issues outstanding. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3620
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 638623,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 14:51."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 624956,
      "EditedText": "We should call it privileged access, rather than benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 624957,
      "EditedText": "I would like to return to the paragraph that was eliminated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 624961,
      "EditedText": "I am just flagging up that point. I do not want to go over the ground again, but we should consider that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 624962,
      "EditedText": "Depending on what we decide on lobbying more generally, we might have to return to this matter anyway. Perhaps Adam Ingram's point can be picked up in that context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 624963,
      "EditedText": "We will do that.Do members want to change the wording in this paragraph to \"privileged access\" rather than \"benefit\"? That will make it specific."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 624964,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 624971,
      "EditedText": "We should state that members could seek advice from the Standards Committee clerk. That might be the way to deal with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 624973,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should add that members should ensure that staff are aware of the guidelines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 624979,
      "EditedText": "This is different from the interim complaints procedure, which will be propagated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 624985,
      "EditedText": "I am smiling at rule 7.3.1. I know that it is in the standing orders, but what seems to be discourteous and disrespectful to some in the Parliament chamber could be exactly what other members want, so that might be a little difficult. However, I think that we know what we mean.Members must take cognisance of what the Presiding Officer or his deputies say at all times. If members do not do so, they could end up being put out of the Parliament.We all know what \"a courteous and respectful manner\"means, but passion and spontaneity—which is perhaps lacking now, but will come—should not be considered as discourteous. It depends on the eyes and ears of the beholder."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 624986,
      "EditedText": "We have a Deputy Presiding Officer here. In the chamber, the Presiding Officer would normally give a warning if he or she felt that there was discourteous behaviour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 624992,
      "EditedText": "We can consider that. Do members have any comments on the paragraphs on general conduct and equal opportunities?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 624994,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to \"Treatment of Parliamentary Staff.\" I am informed that the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body is examining that paragraph, so there might be one or two changes. We will come back to that.Does any member have any comments on the paragraph on allowances? That is agreed.Does any member have any comments on the paragraph on smoking?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624995",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 624995,
      "EditedText": "The paragraph on smoking says:\"The Parliament has a no smoking policy\".That is simply not true. We have never had a parliamentary debate on such a policy and the consultative steering group report contains no guidelines about it. I understand that the SPCB has taken that view, but its view is not the Parliament's view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 624997,
      "EditedText": "But we are talking about a code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 625001,
      "EditedText": "It has not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 625002,
      "EditedText": "However, the SPCB has adopted that policy. Perhaps we should change the first sentence in that section to, \"The Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body has established a no smoking policy.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 625009,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should just remove that sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C625011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 625011,
      "EditedText": "I  support Tricia."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 625013,
      "EditedText": "No. Perhaps we can put the matter factually and say that the SPCB has decided that members cannot smoke in any buildings of the Scottish Parliament, with one exception. However, we should take Tricia's point on board. We do not want things to be set in stone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 625017,
      "EditedText": "Would you be content if we said, \"As a result of inadequate provision, the SPCB has established a no smoking policy\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 625019,
      "EditedText": "It should be put on record that the SPCB has approved about £3,500 for door access and a further £1,500 for railings, so that smokers do not fall. The SPCB has desperately tried to accommodate smokers, but nothing can be done with the building."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 625021,
      "EditedText": "However, any responsible employer has a no smoking policy that takes it into account that people smoke and provides premises for them. We are being asked to accept that there are no facilities because the building is inadequate. We cannot make a leap from saying that to saying that there will be no smoking ever in any buildings of the Scottish Parliament. We are going to new buildings. If, as a good employer, the SPCB wishes to provide smoking premises for those unfortunates who are addicted, we can have that debate in future. All that I am saying is that the code of conduct should not tie our hands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 625022,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pull the discussion together. We take on board Tricia's point about the SPCB's decision—that it applies while we are in the temporary accommodation at the Mound."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 625024,
      "EditedText": "We will say, \"in the current parliamentary buildings\". Those points have been well made, and now we will move on, as we have spent enough time talking about smoking. Do members have any comments under the heading of  \"Alcohol\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 625033,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but those rules are set down by the Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 625035,
      "EditedText": "We are informing MSPs, or reminding them, of what their behaviour should be in the chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 625038,
      "EditedText": "They apply to everyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 625039,
      "EditedText": "Except for the television companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 625040,
      "EditedText": "They apply to individuals, MSPs included, which is why we are bringing them to the attention of MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 625042,
      "EditedText": "The Presiding Officer has decided that permission should be sought in advance. All we are doing is bringing those rules to the attention of MSPs. We are discussing the code, because MSPs will go to it to find out what they are able to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 625046,
      "EditedText": "Do you want me to check with the Presiding Officer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 625050,
      "EditedText": "We will check the position.I move on to \"Confidentiality Requirements\" on page 4. Are there any comments on the introductory paragraph?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 625051,
      "EditedText": "It states:\"These occasions should be limited.\"Do we want to be more explicit, so that circumstances where confidentiality is required are clear to members?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 625052,
      "EditedText": "The second paragraph goes into detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 625053,
      "EditedText": "That sentence could be removed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 24 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18744,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 624804,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:37"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 24 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18744,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 624805,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. Welcome to the 13th meeting of the Standards Committee. Before we start, I would like to welcome back Patricia Ferguson to the committee and to acknowledge the presence of John Young, who is with us today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 624807,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The text is now entirely satisfactory in terms of its clarity and detail. It accords fully with the principles agreed by the committee on how this matter should be taken forward. I am happy to support its going forward for publication.I suggest that we find a mechanism for bringing to the attention of Parliament and the public the fact that the system that we have put in place is innovative. The Scottish cross-party groups will have a considerable impact on the broadening democracy agenda in Scotland. They are more open and more participative in intention—and, I hope, in actuality—than their equivalents at Westminster. It might be appropriate to suggest to the Parliamentary Bureau that it schedule a short debate in the Parliament to highlight that fact and bring it to the public's attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18745,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 624808,
      "EditedText": "Is that the view of the rest of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18745,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 624810,
      "EditedText": "If that is the view of all members of the committee, I will approach the Parliamentary Bureau to ask for a short debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18745,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 624816,
      "EditedText": "We had thought that we would try to start the registration process before the Christmas recess. If the committee wants to seek parliamentary time for a debate, the process may be somewhat delayed, but I would still expect it to begin early in the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 624817,
      "EditedText": "I will take our suggestion before the Parliamentary Bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 624818,
      "EditedText": "It may be some time before the bureau can process it. Must we formally seek Parliament's agreement before implementing this as a de facto procedure, or can the Standards Committee say that it will be the procedure unless it is modified by Parliament? I am thinking about the next three or four weeks. I will be involved in the start of a cross-party group this evening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 624821,
      "EditedText": "Would it be possible to distribute this document on regulation of cross-party groups to MSPs as a draft? We should let members know that it is available and that it is likely that the proposals in it will eventually be adopted. If cross-party groups are being set up, they will be able to benefit from the thinking that we have done over the past few months. We could help with potential problems without taking away the right of the Parliament to approve groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 624822,
      "EditedText": "You are absolutely right, Tricia. We have approved this document, so it will be published immediately and be in the public domain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 624825,
      "EditedText": "It might not always be the case that evidence for a complaint is available, although more often than not it will be. The complaint might be based only on suspicion and it might be that a member is merely expecting an inquiry rather than making a complaint. We should expect evidence if any is available, but there should be an avenue for somebody who feels that something is gravely wrong but can produce no evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 624828,
      "EditedText": "John Young's point is fair. I will go back on what I said to an extent—after the first sentence in point 4, we should include instruction that complaints should be supported and substantiated by whatever evidence is available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 624830,
      "EditedText": "It would also cover another issue about which we had some reservations; that arose from a previous inquiry in which we had waves of evidence. We should require all supporting evidence to be made available to the committee at the beginning of the process so that we can see what we are dealing with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 624831,
      "EditedText": "That is noted and we will change those two bullet points accordingly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 624832,
      "EditedText": "In bullet point 2, we should delete the words\"including the press or media until the complainant is authorised to do so\".We should change the wording of the paragraph to: \"The complaint may be copied to the Presiding Officer but should not be communicated to any other person until the Standards Committee has an opportunity to consider what action might be taken.\" In the past few weeks a complaint was highlighted in the press before the Standards Committee had heard it. We do not want trial by the press and we do not want members running to the press to say that they are presenting a complaint to the Standards Committee. It must be clear that we will treat all complaints fairly and confidentially. It is not helpful if members try to make press opportunities out of complaints about fellow members of the Scottish Parliament. That brings the Parliament into disrepute. It does not help any of us to do our jobs if we are constantly hounded about letters that we have not seen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 624835,
      "EditedText": "I am not surprised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 624839,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy with that? I think that it is a good point; we could amend that part of the document accordingly. Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 624841,
      "EditedText": "That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 624842,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we circulate the report to members of the committee before it is finally published in case there are any last-minute changes to be made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 624845,
      "EditedText": "The final bullet point on page 1 reads:\"What constitutes a registrable interest is explained in the Schedule to the Order.\"As it is unlikely that the schedule would explain that completely, perhaps the sentence ought to read: \"Guidance on what constitutes a registrable interest is explained in the Schedule to the Order.\" That would be more precise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 624848,
      "EditedText": "The clerk informs me that there are some proceedings in which members are allowed to participate for payment. It is not absolutely prohibited, but I am not sure of the circumstances in which it is allowed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 624854,
      "EditedText": "We shall come back to that when we discuss paid advocacy. Do you think that that is appropriate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 624855,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 624856,
      "EditedText": "Adam Ingram mentioned the point about restricting\"a Member's participation in proceedings of the Parliament where he receives or expects to receive a payment from any person.\"There may be situations in which somebody could gain advantage not necessarily for himself but for members of his family. That may lead us into difficult depths, but it is not impossible that an advantage of some sort could be gained. Should that be mentioned? The payment need not be monetary, but it could be advantageous. As I say, we can only go so far with this; in many cases, we must leave members' conduct to their consciences."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 624857,
      "EditedText": "The clerk advises me that the introduction to the members' interests order refers to what is in the legislation, so we have no remit to go beyond it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 624861,
      "EditedText": "The fifth point reads that the order\"provides that any person may inform the Presiding Officer if he or she considers that a Member has failed to comply with or has contravened certain provisions.\"The wording of that point should be consistent with what we said about the complaints procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 624863,
      "EditedText": "I just wanted to highlight it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 624865,
      "EditedText": "The first sentence of the third paragraph of section 6 reads:\"Amongst the experts who offer relevant services are those who specialise in lobbying.\"There are some people who lobby who claim to be experts, but I do not think that it is our role to give them more credit than they perhaps deserve. I am not happy to leave the words \"Amongst the experts\". We could say, \"There are some companies that specialise in lobbying\", but we should not suggest that such people are experts in their field or in any other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 624871,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I agree with the last sentence of paragraph 3, which says:\"In this Code, the term \"lobbyist\" is used to mean the whole range of those who lobby.\"That is inconsistent with other parts of the document. We use the term to talk about lobbying companies later on. There is a need for clarity and consistency of language. I accept that, as an MSP, I am continually lobbied by people of all kinds, particularly constituents, about issues of interest to them, but in my view, those people are not \"lobbyists\". Lobbyists are people who put forward a position on behalf of a particular organised interest. There is also a category of lobbyists who are paid to lobby on behalf of clients—paid lobbying is their business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 624875,
      "EditedText": "We are getting into a difficult area and we are doing things slightly the wrong way round. We must confront one fundamental issue: are we going for a system of registration of lobbying, a code of conduct, or no regulation at all? Those are the three choices. Public pressure is strong for the Parliament to exercise a clear and transparent system of control over lobbying companies. That is clear. I believe that if we go for a system of registration. We should register not only lobbying companies, but the individuals who work for them, so that people must declare on whose behalf they act. However, if we try to extend control—whether through registration or a code of conduct—to other organisations whose main activity is not lobbying, there is a danger that the process will become unmanageable for the Parliament and for the organisations. We need to pay attention to the scope of the exercise. We may decide, in the first instance, to concentrate our attention on lobbying companies and to move on to discuss whether there are any other groups that need to be controlled. The first thing is to decide whether the mechanism for dealing with lobbying companies—who caused the concern among the general public—should be regulation, a voluntary code of conduct or whether we should simply try to discourage the companies, as you, convener, suggested at one stage. There are complexities and that question is at the centre of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 624876,
      "EditedText": "What we are discussing today is the guidelines for MSPs on how they should interact with people who lobby. At some point in the future we will have a discussion about registration, but that is not what is up for discussion today. If we go down the road that Adam Ingram suggests, and define professional lobbyists as every person who ever lobbies—I accept Des McNulty's points—we will include a lot of people whose main occupation is not lobbying. That would make it impossible to have a future discussion on registration and regulation because at a conservative estimate—it is a small \"c\", John—there must be 20-odd thousand people in Scotland who lobby in some way. If we include our constituents who lobby us when they come to see us, we are talking about many more people.Adam's suggestion would bind our hands in the discussion that we need to have on registration. Although I am not entirely happy with the wording that we have at the moment, it distinguishes between those who lobby for a fee because it is their job and the organisations and individuals who lobby us on behalf of themselves and their organisations. A distinction can be made now and in the future without drawing everyone into the huge pool that Adam is suggesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 624879,
      "EditedText": "My sincere apologies Adam, if you feel that I misrepresented you. I may have misrepresented you, but I still disagree with you, particularly with regard to your second point. I have no great love for the Countryside Alliance, as some here will know, but surely you are not suggesting that because that organisation employs a parliamentary officer, that person should be registered in the same way as someone who works for a lobby company and five or six other organisations? That would not make sense. For example, I know, whether it be the Countryside Alliance, the Road Haulage Association, Shelter or anyone else who contacts me, where they are coming from and what their agenda is, and I can take their advice or reject it as I wish. A number of voluntary organisations have parliamentary officers, but their role goes much wider. For example, the parliamentary officer of Shelter deals with a multitude of matters. First and foremost, they are not employed as lobbyists; they are employed because they know what the issues are, and therefore they are the people who come to us.If Adam's suggestion is taken to its ultimate conclusion, it means the parliamentary officer of, say, the Road Haulage Association being registered—and the managing director being registered if he interacts with us at a reception. Frankly, that is nonsense. We need to make a distinction with regard to such situations and leave enough room to manoeuvre, debate and discuss the future of regulation. We should accept what is in front of us and move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 624882,
      "EditedText": "I would like to push it to include people who are employees of organisations that are paid to lobby."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 624884,
      "EditedText": "My suggestion would be consistent with the working group code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C624885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 624885,
      "EditedText": "It is worth pointing out that the next paragraph talks about the rules and guidelines that apply to MSPs in their interaction with lobbyists. That is the part of today's discussion that is important. Most MSPs understand the difference between someone organising a lobby of MSPs for, say, Women's Aid—which has publicised how easy, transparent, open and helpful lobbying was—and someone who sends MSPs an invitation to an event, the genesis of which is not 100 per cent clear.All we are trying to do, in what is almost a preamble to the guidelines to members, is to flag up that there are differences and that we are aware of them, as are many, or all, MSPs. We do not need to say any more in that section than we have already. People understand the distinction, and that it is not a definition that can be inscribed in tablets of stone and set for all eternity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 624886,
      "EditedText": "Before we finalise this matter, there is one point that I would like to make regarding the sixth line. We should remove the word \"sole\". The text would then read: \"In this Code the term ‘professional lobbyist' will be regarded as including consultancies with paid staff or individuals whose business is lobbying\".Leaving\"consultancies . . . whose sole business is lobbying\"would offer a get-out clause. Are we content to lose the word \"sole\"? I am trying to proceed on a consensual basis. Without pushing the matter to a vote, Adam Ingram, I think that we should move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 624890,
      "EditedText": "In a sense, the second \"on a fee basis\" in that sentence is superfluous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 624891,
      "EditedText": "Although the clerks—in consultation—produced this document, the language is taken from the consultative steering group guidelines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 624894,
      "EditedText": "The fourth paragraph says:\"Failure to observe these requirements may constitute a criminal offence.\"I think that that is accurate, but I think that we should say, \"Failure to observe these requirements would constitute a breach of the code of conduct and may constitute a criminal offence.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 624895,
      "EditedText": "That is agreed.Are there any other points on page 2?We will turn to page 3, which is on other rules and guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 624897,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We must be clearer about what hospitality is appropriate and can be accepted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 624898,
      "EditedText": "My experience of local government is that rules on hospitality are made very clear in guidance to members. I would have thought that the Parliament would want something similar."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 624899,
      "EditedText": "I have a slight concern about the second last paragraph on page 3, which says:\"In making any representations as a result of being lobbied, an MSP should disclose the fact\".For example, if Parliament is debating domestic violence, Scottish Women's Aid might send us briefing papers, as many organisations do, to give us the facts and figures; do we expect that every member who has been sent that briefing, whether they have read it or not—it might have gone to their researcher—should stand up and announce that fact before they speak? At present, that is what we are suggesting should be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 624900,
      "EditedText": "On some issues, that might take up one's four minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 624903,
      "EditedText": "We are concerned about hospitality where it might reasonably be thought to influence a member's behaviour. I do not think that any reasonable person would imagine that a cup of tea would do that. However, you are right that hospitality is an important issue, on which we have received two or three letters requesting guidance. I have asked the clerks to research this matter. We will discuss it again in future so that we can give MSPs a little more guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 624904,
      "EditedText": "If one were offered a holiday in the south of France, it would simply not be acceptable to take it. On the other hand, I can declare here and now that last week I had one salmon rissole, three pieces of lettuce, a tomato, cheese, fruit and a glass of wine from British Energy, as did other members. That was a very nice lunch, but it will not influence me one way or the other. We can go overboard on this. It is like a surgeon who is about to carry out an operation. He is 100 per cent certain that he will be successful, but something suddenly goes wrong so that he is not successful. We can be too complex. Every MSP knows what is right and what is wrong. They may do something that is wrong, but everyone knows that they should not go beyond certain bounds. For example, they should not accept a crate of wine for Christmas. As Des McNulty says, such activity was prevalent at one time in local government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 624909,
      "EditedText": "My point is that members have different interpretations, and need guidance from this committee. I have asked the clerks to work on this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 624911,
      "EditedText": "You are absolutely right.Rather then considering this document page by page, it might be wiser to go through each paragraph on page 3. It is important that we do that.The first paragraph says:\"A Member should not, in relation to contact with any person who seeks to lobby him or her, do anything which contravenes this Code of Conduct or any other relevant rule of the Parliament or any statutory provision.\"That is a straightforward introduction. Is everybody happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 624916,
      "EditedText": "Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 624920,
      "EditedText": "Do members agree with the second paragraph:\"A Member should not act in any way in relation to a lobbyist which could bring discredit upon the Parliament\"?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 624927,
      "EditedText": "I think not. For example, I am a fairly militant anti-smoker, but I will not speak to the Freedom Organisation for the Right to Enjoy Smoking Tobacco about its views on smoking—I know what I think."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 624928,
      "EditedText": "On the other hand, the paragraph does not say that you should—it simply says that you should consider doing so. You took one second to answer that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 624929,
      "EditedText": "Members should take a balanced view, but they should not be forced to speak to anyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 624930,
      "EditedText": "The paragraph does not force them to do so, does it? It says simply that a member should consider that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 624931,
      "EditedText": "I would withdraw that statement. A councillor, for example, would be constrained by it time and again during planning applications. One section of the community might want an application to succeed, while another might not. Both sides might approach the councillor—fair enough. However, the councillor should not be forced to go out and seek the other point of view, whoever may hold it. It is not always known who holds the opposite point of view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 624932,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to take the paragraph out if members wanted me to do so. However, I feel that it is asking members simply to consider that action, not forcing them to take it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 624939,
      "EditedText": "If we are to give members guidance on the way in which they should treat information from lobbying companies, that is fine. I am concerned about putting the onus on members to balance their contacts with different organisations. By drafting, we could create a category of offence for members that I think it would be better to avoid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 624943,
      "EditedText": "Fox hunting is an example. I am against hunting with hounds—perhaps I am the sole member of my party who is against it. However, I will not go voluntarily to the Countryside Alliance to ask for its views on the matter. If the Countryside Alliance approaches me, I will respond to it courteously. I might not agree with everything that it says—although I might agree with some things that it says—but there is no need to have it written down that I should make an offer to go to the other side, if I can call it that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 624946,
      "EditedText": "I understand that. That is absolutely valid. However, we must remember what we are drafting—it is a code specifically for MSPs. Bear that in mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5783934+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 624947,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could dilute the paragraph a wee bit, and say that members should \"seek to satisfy themselves\". It could be put in brackets that they should bear it in mind that the onus should rest with the lobbyists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5940178+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 624955,
      "EditedText": "We have been accused of providing that, which is why the paragraph is included."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5940178+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 624813,
      "EditedText": "That may come later. At the moment, I do not think that members would want to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 624819,
      "EditedText": "I understand your concerns. This is a major innovation and it would be most appropriate if Parliament were to approve it. All-party groups have started to form, but the advice from the clerks is that we should seek parliamentary approval."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 624820,
      "EditedText": "We are not holding people back from doing the work—this is a question of registering the groups. I note that the Standards Committee must approve them; I think that we will have a long list to approve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 624824,
      "EditedText": "I would like to combine bullet points 4 and 5 in annexe A. The first sentence of bullet point 5 would be incorporated into bullet point 4, which would then read: \"Any complaint should be substantiated by supporting evidence. It should specify the conduct which is being complained about and what rules relating to MSPs' conduct it is alleged have been breached.\" I would omit the final sentence of bullet point 4 because it is implicit in that revised wording. What I am, in effect, suggesting is that we take out point 5 and incorporate its first sentence into the beginning of point 4, and that we take out the final sentence of point 4. That way it will be clear that when people register complaints they must provide evidence, they must say what the complaint is about and they must indicate what rule or aspect of the code of conduct it is alleged has been breached. If those three things are done, speculation is cut out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 624833,
      "EditedText": "That is fair, but is not it the case that, in the real world, complaints come out in the press before they are communicated formally to us? The code of conduct working party suggested that all complaints should be channelled through the Presiding Officer in the first instance. Is it the case that we will now be the channel and that the Presiding Officer is happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 624836,
      "EditedText": "We should consider making it clear that the Standards Committee takes a dim view of members going to the press first and that that in itself might be considered a breach of the code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 624837,
      "EditedText": "There is a difference. Adam Ingram is talking about complaints which are highlighted by the press first, whereas Des McNulty is talking about MSPs going to the press with complaints before bringing them to the committee, which has happened.To get this procedure right, we should incorporate both those points into the one bullet point. The clerk has made a note of that. Des McNulty is saying that it should be part of our complaints procedure that, if MSPs raise a complaint against another MSP, that complaint should be handled by this committee and not raised in the press first. Adam Ingram's point is about general complaints, which are not raised by MSPs but appear in the press from other sources. Those cases would also be open for us to investigate. Is everybody happy about changing the bullet point?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 624840,
      "EditedText": "That is agreed. Are there any other points about the complaints procedure? Shall we leave it to the clerks to amend those points that we have raised, identified and agreed on, and proceed with the publication of the report so that it is in the public domain as soon as possible?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 624844,
      "EditedText": "Our main business today is the continued consideration of the draft code of conduct for members. There are four sections of the draft to consider. We have set ourselves the ambitious task of completing our work on the code by the Christmas recess, but I am sure that it is well within our ability to do that. Our next meetings will be on 7 and 8 December, when we will consider the sections of the draft that we have not yet discussed at all. On 14 December, our final scheduled meeting before Christmas, we shall reconsider the whole code and finalise the entire draft. There is quite a bit of text before us today and, if we are to meet our target, we must get through all the material. We must agree what these sections of the code are to contain, so that the text can be finalised. We shall work through each section in turn. I ask members of the committee to focus on the content of the code, very much as we did with the previous item that we considered, rather than devote a lot of time to dotting i's and crossing t's. First, we shall consider the introduction to the members' interests order. The text is a factual introduction to the legislation that forms the basis of existing rules on members' interests. Subsequent sections for consideration at our next meeting will go into the detail of the requirements of the legislation. I shall go through this document page by page, starting with page 1 of section 2, the introduction to the members' interests order.Are there any comments on page 1?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 624847,
      "EditedText": "The second bullet point states that the members' interests order\"restricts a Member's participation in proceedings of the Parliament where he receives or expects to receive a payment from any person.\"Should not the word \"prohibits\" be substituted for the word \"restricts\"? Do not we want an outright ban on any remuneration or reward that derives directly from the role of members?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 624850,
      "EditedText": "The word \"restricts\" is therefore appropriate. The lawyers have gone over this document with a fine-tooth comb."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 624851,
      "EditedText": "The other question that arises concerns MSPs' relationships with members of their staff and with family members. Will we mention anything about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 624852,
      "EditedText": "We have not done so yet, but we do not need to spend too much time on that as we are simply reiterating what is in the order. Are there any other points on page 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 624858,
      "EditedText": "That is fair enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 624859,
      "EditedText": "The third bullet point states that the members' interests order\"allows the Parliament to prevent or restrict a Member who fails to comply with or contravenes certain provisions of the Order . . . and, in certain circumstances, to exclude such a Member from the proceedings of Parliament.\"I thought that that role would be played by the Presiding Officer. The wording could be interpreted as meaning that a motion of the Parliament would be required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 624864,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other points about page 2? There are no more points on that section.We now move to section 6, which is on lobbying. The draft aims to reflect our discussion of 10 November. It is important to set appropriate standards for MSPs in this part of the code. Members should remember that we are concentrating on the conduct of MSPs only. We have had some time to consider this section, so I would like to work through it page by page, as changes may be needed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 624866,
      "EditedText": "So the sentence might read, \"Amongst those who offer relevant services, there are some who specialise in lobbying.\" Would that read better? What do other members think? Is that what you are suggesting, Tricia?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 624867,
      "EditedText": "It is the word \"experts\" that worries me. The Parliament should not imbue them with that respect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 624868,
      "EditedText": "That will be taken on board. The clerk will change the sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C624869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 624869,
      "EditedText": "May we delete the word \"relevant\" as well? Whether services are relevant depends on the context. It would be safer to take the word out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 624872,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone happy to remove that sentence? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 624874,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the first sentence on page 2, that\"A distinction can be made between individuals or organisations which lobby on their own behalf and individuals or organisations who lobby on a fee basis on behalf of clients – ‘professional lobbyists'\",but \"professional lobbyists\" should include people who are employed by an organisation to lobby. There are examples throughout the world of people trying to differentiate between professional lobbyists, who have multiple clients in various fields, and people who are employed by large organisations to lobby. I would not like to see such a clear distinction here. In Canada, a distinction was made between professional lobbyists from lobbying companies and lobbyists employed by individual organisations. There was a different set of rules for each. It proved difficult to disentangle the two and the system was unfair, so they dropped the distinction and included people who are employed by organisations to lobby in the definition of professional lobbyists. That is what we should do. In practice, we cannot differentiate between the two. We are not considering the regulation of lobbyists now, but we may move towards that. For clarity, the definition of a paid lobbyist should include all staff of organisations and associations who engage in lobbying, as well as journalists who have secondary lobbying interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 624877,
      "EditedText": "I agree with a lot of what Tricia said, but there is no question—I think that we accept it—that lobbying is here to stay. It has come across the Atlantic, like many other things. It will not go away. Not all professional lobbying is necessarily bad. Lobbyists can put forward good cases for integral parts of society, industry and so on. We are trying to govern the relationship between those types of lobbyists and members. It is crucial that members are not signed up as sub-agents and paid as sub-lobbyists. How the lobbying is done is important.Lobbying will not go away, and it will increase with time. All sorts of specialist groups are coming into being. They can be helpful. In this building, a month or two ago, I attended a gathering at which the Road Haulage Association put forward some interesting points, which was advantageous to members. We must draw a distinction. We are trying to govern the relationship between elected members and lobbyists, but the latter come in all shapes and sizes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 624880,
      "EditedText": "A lot of what Tricia said was relevant to a discussion of the regulation of lobbyists, but we are not talking about that: we are talking about a code of conduct for MSPs with regard to their contact with lobbyists. All I am saying is that the relationship between MSPs and people who are employed to lobby, whether or not they belong to lobbying companies, should be covered by the code of conduct and we should not limit our definition in the manner suggested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 624883,
      "EditedText": "I see shaking heads. Do you want to push it to a vote?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 624892,
      "EditedText": "Is that a recommendation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 624893,
      "EditedText": "I think that Adam is right to flag the matter up. I would prefer to discuss it again at a later date. We have removed the word \"sole\".Are there any comments on anything else on the second half of page 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 624896,
      "EditedText": "Can we flag up at the bottom of page 2 that we will have to consider hospitality rules in due course so that we can provide guidance to members on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 624902,
      "EditedText": "I think that we would want meetings between lobbyists and MSPs to be registered. That relates to having a standards commissioner, regulations, registers and so on. You talked about measuring remuneration, gifts, hospitality and other benefits. That is not very specific, and could range from a cup of tea to whatever. I believe that the code of conduct working group thought that the value of gifts should be below 0.5 per cent of an MSP's salary. I think that that limit is rather too high."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 624906,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is—maybe a bottle of wine is acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 624907,
      "EditedText": "Exactly, but opinions differ. It is this committee's job to help members by saying clearly what is acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 624908,
      "EditedText": "I understand that one committee convener told members when they were visiting other parts of Scotland that they should not accept a sandwich from a local authority. That is absolute nonsense. That convener should have known better, because she had been involved in local government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 624914,
      "EditedText": "I agree in general, but this is about lobbying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 624915,
      "EditedText": "Individuals lobby, do they not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 624917,
      "EditedText": "In the first few months we all received a proliferation of well-produced, expensive brochures and so on—two rainforests a day were being destroyed. That is lobbying. One can only go so far on this, and draw up broad guidelines to advise members on what they should not do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 624918,
      "EditedText": "All the first paragraph is saying is that we should not contravene the code. Do we agree with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 624921,
      "EditedText": "The intention is that a member should not act in that way in relation to any person.The third paragraph relates to the things that John Young was talking about, such as sandwiches or cups of tea from local authorities. It states:\"In addition to compliance with the statutory provisions referred to above, a Member should not accept any remuneration, gift, hospitality or other benefit from any lobbyist\"—a lobbyist is defined as a person or a group—\"that might reasonably be thought to influence, or be intended to influence, his or her judgement in carrying out Parliamentary duties.\"We are saying that that is for the individual MSP to decide. I am asking the clerks to provide some practical guidance for members, which might be useful for future meetings. However, that is the rule which individual members must take on board. Is everybody happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 624925,
      "EditedText": "That gets to the point where we are talking about lobbying companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 624926,
      "EditedText": "I am advised that we should leave the description as \"professional lobbyists\".The next paragraph states:\"A Member should consider whether meeting one person or group making representations on a particular issue should be balanced by offering other individuals or groups a similar opportunity to make representations.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 624935,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to deal with members' approaches to lobbying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 624936,
      "EditedText": "All that we are offering is a level of guidance for MSPs. Members might think that they could make judgments whether to meet organisations, but others might not take that view. I do not think that there would be any harm in leaving the paragraph in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 624938,
      "EditedText": "It is a political judgment. We are all supposedly politicians. We are here to make such judgments. The paragraph may be kept or not kept, but I would have imagined that most members were perfectly capable of making that decision for themselves. They do not need to have it written down in a code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 624940,
      "EditedText": "Do members have no strong views on the paragraph?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 624944,
      "EditedText": "The paragraph has been taken out.The next paragraph states:\"Before taking any action as a result of being lobbied, a Member should be satisfied about the identity of the lobbyist and the motive for lobbying.  A Member may choose to act in response to a professional lobbyist but it is important that an MSP knows the grounds on which he or she is being lobbied in order to ensure that any action the Member takes in connection with the lobbyist complies with these rules.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 624945,
      "EditedText": "I have two points to make. The paragraph should state that members should satisfy themselves about the identity of the lobbyists and the motive for lobbying. It should also state that the onus of declaring that lies with the lobbyist. I want to make it clear that members have an obligation to attempt to find out who they are dealing with, but that the onus should be on the lobbying organisations to indicate where they are coming from and what they are up to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5783934+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 624948,
      "EditedText": "Members should \"seek to satisfy themselves\". However, within these rules, the onus is on MSPs, as they are guidance for MSPs.As members have no other points to make on that paragraph, let us move on to the next one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5940178+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 624949,
      "EditedText": "I raised the point a wee while ago that I thought that we should exclude the next paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5940178+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 624951,
      "EditedText": "We will exclude that paragraph. The next paragraph states:\"No Member should use his or her position to help any lobbyist get a benefit to which the lobbyist is not entitled.\"That seems straightforward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5940178+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 624953,
      "EditedText": "Is it straightforward? I am thinking about the Road Haulage Association, which has real problems that will affect the whole community. I would say that it is entitled to approach members. However, those who advocate moving freight by rail might think that it is not entitled to do so. Where do we go from there?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5940178+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 624958,
      "EditedText": "The previous paragraph?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 624959,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Surely we need some sort of record of contact with professional lobbyists. If we review a complaint against somebody, should not we have such information available to us? If we were to appoint an independent standards commissioner, would not he or she want to review such contact?We should be clear about what we mean by being lobbied. As I said originally, perhaps it is meetings with lobbyists that should be recorded rather than receiving something through the post."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 624960,
      "EditedText": "Does Adam Ingram want to reopen that paragraph?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 624965,
      "EditedText": "We will do that.Do members have any points about page 4?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 624967,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is written in such a way as to mean anybody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 624968,
      "EditedText": "The wording should specify a professional lobbyist. If it means anybody, we might have to deal with a plethora of issues. If all those issues were brought before the Standards Committee, we would spend all our time considering them.From our point of view, the issue at the moment is professional lobbying companies. When we broaden our consideration, we might widen the issues, but what we are concerned about at the moment is professional lobbying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 624980,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely.We will now move on to section 8, which is on general conduct and conduct in the chamber or in committee.It will be worth going through each of these points again. The first paragraph states:\"Members of the Scottish Parliament are accountable to the Scottish electorate who will expect them to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner consistent with the standing of the Parliament and not to engage in any activity that would bring the Parliament or the Member into disrepute.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 624982,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments on that paragraph?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 624984,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy with the rest of the introductory section?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 624993,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 624998,
      "EditedText": "I think that Tricia has a vested interest to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 624999,
      "EditedText": "As this is a code of conduct for MSPs, it should not make any difference whether we are in the committee chambers or Parliament headquarters. If that is included in the MSPs' code of conduct, it is there regardless of the buildings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625004",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 625004,
      "EditedText": "Tricia should view it as an opportunity rather than a penance."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625005",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "In this present building?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625006",
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      "EditedText": "Tricia has a substantive point. Perhaps we should not put something in the code of conduct that might not apply in the new Holyrood building."
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Are members suggesting that we remove that paragraph?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625008",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625015",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is what I am saying. We should just put the factual position."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625025",
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      "EditedText": "The phrase—\"especially within the confines of the Parliament\"—is probably superfluous."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
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      "EditedText": "Okay—it is out. Do members have any comments under \"Health and Safety\"?Do members have any comments under \"Official Stationery and Mail\"? There are no comments, so everyone is happy.We move on to \"Conduct in the Chamber or in Committee\". Do members have any comments about the introductory paragraph? I am going to go through each paragraph—Interruption. Of course—we cannot change these rules as they are set by the Presiding Officer."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625030",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "Have we skipped page 3?"
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      "EditedText": "Yes, because those rules are set in stone by the Presiding Officer."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625034",
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      "EditedText": "So that is it?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625037",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "ContributionID": 625037,
      "EditedText": "That is my point. Are the rules on photography and filming for members of the public or for MSPs?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625041",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
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      "EditedText": "I do not want to labour the point, but the only thing that surprises me a little is when we come to \"Painting/sketching\". Having to seek permission in advance for painting is fair enough, but would the rule apply to someone trying to sketch in the public gallery, as people do in court? It is not a major point, as I do not think that anyone would want to sketch us, to be honest."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625043",
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      "EditedText": "Do the rules about photography and filming apply only when there is a meeting? I have taken guests to the chamber and they have been allowed to take photographs. I am confused about why that paragraph is in the document."
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 625048,
      "EditedText": "Okay. We could check with a Deputy Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 624806,
      "EditedText": "The first item on today's agenda is the committee's report on cross-party groups. The Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body has approved our recommendations for use of parliamentary facilities by such groups, and the clerks have suggested a couple of amendments to clarify the practical arrangements. Those are highlighted in the text that members received before the meeting. Is the committee content to proceed with the publication of the report on the basis of the amended text?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 624809,
      "EditedText": "It would be an excellent idea to ask the bureau to find some time for a short debate on this matter. That would indicate to the general public and to the large number of organisations that want to interact with the new Parliament how we hope to go about our business; it would also provide an opportunity for us to bring this issue to the attention of MSPs. Such a debate would enable people to see that we are trying to be the open, accountable, transparent and accessible Parliament that we promised. There is a great deal of interest in our deliberations on cross-party groups, particularly from voluntary organisations throughout Scotland, which are keen to place their relationships with us on a firmer footing. We have done a good job on this and it will be widely welcomed. We should ensure that the public is as well informed about it as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 624811,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps you can guide me on this, convener. For some months, I have been a member of what we term an all-party group. Its subject is the provision of hospitals on the south side of Glasgow and in East Renfrewshire. At this stage, not all our meetings can take place in public—I stress that at the moment they are taking place outwith the Parliament—because there are conflicting interests with respect to the hospital provision to which I have referred. Undoubtedly, there will come a time when we have to make approaches to the Parliament and even make use of its accommodation. I am not sure whether, as an all-party group, we are required to register under this provision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 624812,
      "EditedText": "A group must register only if it wants to be recognised as a cross-party group in the Scottish Parliament. You must register if that is what you want."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 624814,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18745,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18745,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 624815,
      "EditedText": "As John Young says, a number of groups have already sprouted up—indeed, they seem to be sprouting up all over the place. I notice that the clerks have included some rules on interim arrangements. Could Vanessa Glynn inform us of the time scale for registering groups and for establishing a cross-party bulletin and so on? Are we looking to get them up and running in the new year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 624823,
      "EditedText": "We now move to the next item on the agenda, which is a discussion of the interim complaints procedure. It was clear at our previous meeting that members felt strongly that a procedure should be put in place urgently. Members have the draft report on the procedure before them. It is proposed that the committee report to Parliament so that our intended procedure is clearly recorded and available to all MSPs and to anybody else who is interested. What are members' views on the procedure and the report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 624826,
      "EditedText": "Suspicion is always based on some form of evidence. If there is suspicion of wrongdoing or malpractice, there must be evidence to support that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 624827,
      "EditedText": "That is true, but there may be no tangible evidence to produce. Suspicion can be based on opinion, although that opinion might be wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 624829,
      "EditedText": "That would cover John's point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 624834,
      "EditedText": "I can confirm that I have spoken to the Presiding Officer; he is content that we take this responsibility and that complaints are directed to us rather than to him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C624838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 624838,
      "EditedText": "In bullet point 8, would it be worth clarifying our position by adding on a new sentence such as, \"As a general principle, however, the committee will meet and take evidence in public, but reserves the right to deliberate in private\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interim Complaints",
      "HeadingID": 18746,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 18746,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 624843,
      "EditedText": "That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 624846,
      "EditedText": "Point taken. Are there any comments on page 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C624849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 624849,
      "EditedText": "The point refers only to business that has a direct effect on the interests of the other body or individual. Members are not prohibited from taking part in all the business of the Parliament; they are prohibited only in the particular area in which they have an interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 624853,
      "EditedText": "There is a point about preventing or restricting members \"from participating in proceedings of the Parliament\".The preamble makes reference only to contravention of the members' interests order. Strictly speaking, it should also refer to the relevant section of the Scotland Act 1998. That is really a legal issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 624860,
      "EditedText": "It would require a motion of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
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    },
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 624862,
      "EditedText": "That is what the order says, but I take Des's point. What we are trying to do with the complaints procedure—the Presiding Officer has agreed to this—is to ensure that complaints come to us. Let us leave the wording of that point as it is, as it reflects what is in the order, and take advice on that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 624870,
      "EditedText": "I think we have the flavour of members' feelings. Are there any other comments on page 1?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 624873,
      "EditedText": "That is what we will do then. Are there any other comments on page 1?We move to page 2."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 624878,
      "EditedText": "Tricia has misrepresented my position somewhat. Essentially, I am arguing that we should include people who are paid to lobby. That is not restricted to lobbying companies. There are a number of organisations that would not be included in the definition that we have, but which employ people to lobby.We have already run into cases in which there were question marks about the relationship between lobbyists and members of the Scottish Parliament. For example, I can think of a number of countryside organisations to which that would apply. The definition of paid lobbyists should include people who are employed by companies or organisations to lobby MSPs, as well as lobbying companies themselves. I hope that clarifies what I am saying. I am not talking about just anyone who lobbies MSPs—constituents or otherwise. I am referring to people who are paid to lobby."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 624881,
      "EditedText": "If I can draw this together, we have a difference of view, but that is not inconsistent with what is in the section on lobbying, which states:\"A distinction can be made between individuals or organisations which lobby on their own behalf and individuals or organisations who lobby on a fee basis on behalf of clients – ‘professional lobbyists'.\"It also states:\"It is difficult to give a clear cut definition\".We have just proved that point. I would be content to leave the wording as it is, unless anyone wants to push the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 624887,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, I would lose a vote. I would still like to flag that up as an issue that we should return to."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C624888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 624888,
      "EditedText": "Would it help Adam Ingram if we took out the words \"on a fee basis\"? I recognise that, as Adam says, there are people who are employed to lobby, but not necessarily on a fee basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 624889,
      "EditedText": "I am saying that there are powerful organisations that gain advantage by employing people to lobby on their behalf. MSPs have to be as wary of them as of professional lobbying companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 624901,
      "EditedText": "That requirement needs to be taken out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 624905,
      "EditedText": "This is an issue for us, because I am not sure that members do know whether accepting a crate of wine is appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 624910,
      "EditedText": "If one were invited to a local authority function at which tea, coffee and sandwiches were being served, one would look ridiculous if, while everybody else was munching away, one stood back and said, \"Sorry, I am not allowed to take a tomato sandwich.\" It would almost be an insult to the host. It is a question of balance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 624912,
      "EditedText": "I take the view that it is constituents and groups of constituents who lobby me on issues. The sentence should not read \"any person\" but \"any lobbying company or organisation\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 624913,
      "EditedText": "The advice is that it should be \"any person\" because an individual constituent might treat a member to a slap-up meal."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 624919,
      "EditedText": "That is fair enough."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 624922,
      "EditedText": "The next paragraph states:\"A Member should not offer or accord any preferential access or treatment to professional lobbyists, nor should a professional lobbyist be given to understand that preferential access or treatment might be forthcoming from another MSP or group or person within or connected with the Parliament.\"We are talking about preferential treatment."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624923",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 624923,
      "EditedText": "Again, we are defining the person as a professional lobbyist. The person is defined rather specifically."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 624924,
      "EditedText": "I understand that difficulty. Perhaps we should change the wording to \"lobbyists\", which  would include our previous description. What about \"preferential access or treatment\"? Does anybody have any other comments on that paragraph, about \"preferential access or treatment\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 624933,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it would be possible to include it, in any shape or form."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 624934,
      "EditedText": "We will remove it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 624937,
      "EditedText": "The word that I find problematic is \"offering\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 624941,
      "EditedText": "Will you remove it, convener?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 624942,
      "EditedText": "Please do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5627692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 624950,
      "EditedText": "Do members agree?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5940178+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 624952,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure what \"benefit\" means in that context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5940178+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 624954,
      "EditedText": "The real issue might concern privileged access."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5940178+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 624966,
      "EditedText": "In the first paragraph, do we mean \"professional lobbyist\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 624969,
      "EditedText": "I am slightly concerned, because I think that we are approaching the matter from the wrong angle. The draft code is about how the committee interacts with MSPs. It is not about lobbying and the potential registration or regulation of lobbyists. When we come to the debate about regulating and registering lobby companies, that is the time for complaints to be made about them.The code is about the committee and how we interact with MSPs. If any member received a strange approach from a lobbying company, I am sure that they would alert the appropriate people anyway. I do not think that that should be mentioned in this document. That is for our next discussion, not this one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 624970,
      "EditedText": "Shall we remove it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 624972,
      "EditedText": "We will change the paragraph to say that the member should seek advice from the Standards Committee via the clerk.The next paragraph reads:\"Members should ensure that staff working for them also apply these rules and guidelines when acting on a Member's behalf or in any Parliamentary connection.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 624974,
      "EditedText": "Members have a duty to ensure that their staff abide by those rules. If they do not abide by those rules, the member has a duty to act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 624975,
      "EditedText": "We will change the wording to, \"are aware of and apply\", rather than just \"apply\".The final paragraph on page 4 states:\"Failure to comply with or contravention of the rules by an MSP in relation to contacts with lobbyists or behaviour by an MSP which falls short of the standards established in this Code may constitute a breach of the requirements of the Members' Interests Order or a criminal offence, or could lead to penalties being imposed on a Member by the Parliament.\"That is a warning.Are members happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624976,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624977",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 624977,
      "EditedText": "Now that we have agreed that section, is it now an interim procedure, about which we will inform members?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 624978,
      "EditedText": "Not yet. We must complete the code first. In the last meeting before the parliamentary recess, we shall review the entire code."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 624981,
      "EditedText": "Could you say paragraph 1, paragraph 2 and so on, rather than reading the paragraph out? That will speed up the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 624983,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 624987,
      "EditedText": "It is up to the Presiding Officer, otherwise there will be chaos. Irrespective of whether a member agrees with him, they still have to defer to him. I accept that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 624988,
      "EditedText": "Would Patricia Ferguson like to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C624989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 624989,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I should declare an interest first, convener.There have not been any incidents of that nature so far, and I hope that that will continue to be the case. Members are capable of expressing themselves with passion, spontaneity and a great deal of knowledge on many occasions, without resorting to being discourteous to the Parliament, the Presiding Officer or other members. I am grateful that, by and large, that is the way it has been so far—long may it continue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 624990,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to the part entitled \"General Conduct\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 624991,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on, section 8 is headed, \"General Conduct and Conduct in the Chamber or in Committee\".The first part is a statement about general conduct. The next part is more to do with committees and the proceedings of the Parliament. The next part then comes back to general conduct again. Would the paragraphs after the introductory part sit more in line with the information on committees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C624996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 624996,
      "EditedText": "I would distinguish between the assembly hall and the Parliament headquarters. The SPCB has indicated that there is a no smoking policy in the latter because of fire regulations. Although I do not smoke—and have not done so for 25 years—I am not anti-smoking and I appreciate Tricia Marwick's views on the matter. That said, we do not have the provision to establish smoking rooms in Parliament headquarters. There is no question but that there will be such provision in the new Holyrood building."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 625000,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I can suggest a change. Tricia is quite right—the Parliament has not adopted a no smoking policy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 625003,
      "EditedText": "Or, \"The Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body has decided that there will be a no smoking policy.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 625010,
      "EditedText": "We should remove the whole paragraph, because it is simply not true."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 625012,
      "EditedText": "Shall we remove the paragraph on smoking?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 625014,
      "EditedText": "Indeed. The code of conduct is not set in stone, and we will come back to it on a regular basis if and when matters arise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 625016,
      "EditedText": "The decision on a no smoking policy is based on the inadequacies in the present building."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 625018,
      "EditedText": "No. I would be far happier if we said, \"The SPCB has determined that there will be a no smoking policy.\" The Parliament has not decided on a no smoking policy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 625020,
      "EditedText": "The SPCB has the devolved authority to decide such a policy anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 625023,
      "EditedText": "I have a final point of clarification. The other day, the Presiding Officer said that approaches had been made over time to try to get a room, but nobody—and no political grouping—would give up a room as there were no rooms to give up. In the Holyrood building, there is no question but that provision will be made for smokers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C625028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 625028,
      "EditedText": "We could add in name-calling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 625029,
      "EditedText": "We move on to page 4 and \"Confidentiality Requirements\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 625032,
      "EditedText": "I was going to make a point about \"Photography and filming\", at paragraph (g). This document is about MSPs' conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 625036,
      "EditedText": "The rules also apply to members of the public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2099E29P51C625044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Young, John",
      "ID": 2099,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Young: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 625044,
      "EditedText": "I believe that the rules apply only when there is a meeting, but I think that similar rules apply to all Parliaments when they are meeting—and not just to those in this country. Members could be disconcerted by flashes going off, or even by the noise that cameras make."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C625047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 625047,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C625049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18747,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patricia Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 625049,
      "EditedText": "I do not remember the entire text of the announcement that was sent out, but I remember the individual areas that it covered. In business bulletin 5/1999, there was an explanation of how and why the decision was made, which might be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C625054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 625054,
      "EditedText": "That is not a problem—we will remove it. We move straight on to the second paragraph, where the detail is found. MSPs should be aware of the first sentence, which makes an important point: \"All drafts of Committee reports should be kept confidential.\"Some draft reports are very controversial and need to be confidential; this paragraph explains why. Are there any other points?Are there any comments about the third paragraph?Are there any comments about the last paragraph in that section? Fine. We will take together the two paragraphs under, \"Use of Services of the Staff of the Parliament\". Are there any comments? There is none.The last heading is, \"Failure to comply with or contravention of the Rules on general conduct\". Is everyone happy with that section? Good. That brings us to the end of today's meeting. We have had a useful discussion—the speed at which we have managed to get through these sections is amazing in comparison with how long it took us when we started the exercise. I will ask the clerks to revise the text following our discussions. We will have a complete draft code when we come back to the subject at the end of our meeting on 14 December, so we will move on to the next sections at our next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C625055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3478
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18747,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 625055,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:07."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:09.0783783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 604739,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the points that you have made, particularly about resources. Where the money is coming from and how we can guarantee the figures is an issue that we will have to pursue.I will ask you about the single transfer aspect of the Glasgow proposal. There are political attractions for the Executive in pushing it through on a single ballot, single choice and single landlord basis. The debate will be between that and multi-option, multi-ballot facilities. One of the reasons why the Executive might want to transfer to a single block is that, when it was initially considering transferring the debt, there might have been breakage costs. Since then, the agenda has moved on; the Executive wants only to service the debt, so there should not be breakage costs. The impetus to move to one big block all at once is lost. Does that not mean that a more relaxed approach could be adopted, as one of the main reasons for having a single transfer may have been removed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 24 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18308,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18308,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 604590,
      "EditedText": "I welcome everyone to the meeting. A couple of members have not yet arrived. Keith Raffan may join us at some point. Mike Watson passes on his apologies for not attending this morning's meeting; he was keen to hear the evidence, but he has been called to the Court of Session, as an interim interdict has been served concerning his member's bill—I hope that I have got the legal terminology right. As members know, our meetings now have a standard format. We have a preliminary action point to deal with before we move on to the housing stock transfer evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18309,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18309,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 604592,
      "EditedText": "We should receive a letter from Scottish Homes this week. The organisation is in discussion with the Executive about the information that has still to be provided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 604597,
      "EditedText": "Yes.I formally welcome Sean and Ian. Thank you very much for attending the meeting. We are very grateful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 604598,
      "EditedText": "For the uninitiated, I should say that the Glasgow Campaign Against Housing Stock Transfer is made up of more than 50 tenants associations in Glasgow and is opposed to the sell-off of council housing for the reasons outlined in the briefing paper that has been sent to MSPs and this committee. If the housing stock transfer resulted in one large trust or a number of housing associations, under Treasury rules those would all be private organisations acting as a conduit for private finance—they would be nothing more than privately financed landlords. Private financiers such as Halifax plc and the Bank of Scotland, which are very interested in the scheme, would get a minimum annual rate of return of 8 per cent. For tenants, the sell-off would lead to higher rents; the elimination of secure tenancies, as any new tenancy agreement would reflect financial lenders' needs, which will reduce tenants' rights; more evictions; and cuts to housing benefit, which will also lead to evictions. Over the next three years, there will be a mass programme of demolition of one in five council houses in Glasgow, which will ensure a £300 million profit for private developers in Glasgow.The best example that I can give is that of central Drumchapel, the home area of Madge O'Neill, the convener of Glasgow City Council's housing services committee. There are plans there to carry out the biggest single demolition—1,076 council houses will be demolished to be replaced by 1,000 private houses. It is estimated—this is from Glasgow City Council's own documents—that the houses in central Drumchapel alone will be sold for a total of £50 million. Some of the houses will cost from £50,000 to £100,000, and hundreds of local tenants, who have been there for a long time, will be kicked out of the area. Middle-class people will replace them, tearing the heart out of those communities. The homeless will not be properly housed under stock transfer because third-party contracts have to be entered into. Shelter has shown that housing associations have a poor record of housing the homeless. As I was coming to this meeting, representatives of trade unions told me that stock transfer will result in at least 1,000 job losses. If secondary transfers go ahead, there will be no need for a direct labour organisation, and many more job losses will follow. We believe in a new start for public sector housing, not in the status quo. We believe that the £1 billion debt could be transferred to the Scottish Executive. That could release between £90 million and £120 million per year over a 10-year period, which would do exactly the same as the privatisation of council housing in Glasgow. That £1 billion could also pay for 10 years of repairs and maintenance. We are also arguing for the restoration of the housing support grant, funded from general taxation. We are arguing for proper, publicly funded, public sector housing for Glasgow and for Scotland. The Glasgow Campaign Against Housing Stock Transfer is calling for a moratorium on the sell-off of public sector housing in Glasgow and throughout Scotland, to enable this important Scottish Parliament committee to examine the state of public sector housing in Scotland and consider all options, in particular the retention and enhancement of public sector housing and the decentralisation of control to tenants. The need for a moratorium has never been greater. First, given the current open warfare between Charlie Gordon and Wendy Alexander over whether there should be one large trust or a number of housing associations in Glasgow, the date set for the ballot to take place in November next year means that the matter is being rushed, whereas it needs to be properly examined. Secondly, a moratorium is required because Glasgow City Council has not consulted the tenants properly. It is using the so-called housing neighbourhood forums throughout the city to manufacture consent for the stock transfer. That is why the North West Community Alliance and Wyndford Community Council, among others, have been refused entry to those forums. Glasgow City Council's £1 million feasibility study concluded:\"For the next stage, when transfer proposals are being developed, tenant representatives will need to be more involved, both at Neighbourhood and on a City-wide basis. Neighbourhood Forums are in the process of being put in place for each Neighbourhood so that they could form tenant steering groups for the transfer process.\"Danny Bradley, a senior council official, stated in a letter from Glasgow City Council to the Scottish Office:\"If there is a suggestion that anti-campaigns should be given a specific voice within the structures I would not agree that this is a tenable position.\"It is clear that the housing neighbourhood forums are being used to filter out those who disagree with stock transfer. The council is setting the agenda to facilitate the sell-off of public sector housing, and the alternatives are not being discussed. That is sham consultation, which is why our campaign will soon be seeking interim interdict at Glasgow sheriff court to prevent the housing neighbourhood forums from meeting. A moratorium on stock transfer is imperative, so that this committee can review all aspects of public sector housing. We need more investment in public sector housing, not its destruction by measures that are hurried through, as Glasgow City Council is doing. A policy aide from 10 Downing Street recently came up to Glasgow and said that it was the test-bed for public sector housing, not just in Scotland but in Britain. He was elated by what was happening. Stock transfer is being rushed through and the tenants are not being given the opportunity to engage in proper consultation or to examine all the alternatives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 604599,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. You just about kept your presentation down to five minutes—well done. You have voiced a number of views. I take it, Ian, that you will be responding to some of the questions that committee members will put?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 604605,
      "EditedText": "I will ask one more question before opening up the discussion. Do you oppose the transfer of stock to housing associations in principle?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 604606,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Although 20 years ago housing associations were genuinely community-based, since 1989 their funding from the public sector has been reduced and an increasing amount of their money has come from private sources. If £1.3 billion comes into Glasgow from the private sector, many so-called community-based housing associations will merge and become large housing companies. In England and Wales, the housing associations are already very commercialised—the same will happen in Scotland. Because tenants do not enjoy secure tenancies under housing associations, we will witness more evictions. In addition, rents are rising fastest in the housing association sector. In the United Kingdom as a whole, rents are 15 per cent higher under housing associations than they are under councils. We see housing associations as a vehicle for private finance—in other words, as just another private landlord."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 604607,
      "EditedText": "Sean, you have nailed your colours to the mast and made your position quite clear. Your briefing paper was issued to members of the committee earlier this year in the name of the Glasgow Campaign Against Housing Stock Transfer. Are you now saying that you are against all stock transfers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 604609,
      "EditedText": "That is very clear. In the opening statement in the briefing paper, you say:\"The New Housing Partnership Policy of the New Labour Government mentions Stock Transfer in terms of Community Ownership. This is not true.\"Why do you make that statement? I could say that the statement that you have made is not true, because I have seen community ownership in action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 604613,
      "EditedText": "The evidence that we have is based on the feasibility study report, which indicated that rents would rise in the next couple of years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 604616,
      "EditedText": "May I ask one more question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 604619,
      "EditedText": "In some of the housing neighbourhood forums that have been set up around Glasgow, the housing neighbourhood managers started chairing meetings and talking exclusively about housing stock transfer. Other options, such as public sector housing, are not being discussed in those forums. This is a sham consultation exercise, which is intended only to facilitate the stock transfer. The council dominates the agenda and the housing neighbourhood managers have a disproportionate influence over tenants.You mentioned the example of Birmingham. The good new is that, in the previous two ballots on stock transfer in England—in Lewisham and in Cambridge—stock transfer was voted down after good local campaigns run by tenants. Housing in those areas will now be retained in the public sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 604624,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in your attempt to equate housing associations with private landlords—there are a number of associations in my constituency that would take great offence at that, because they are very much community-controlled. What would you say if the only permitted alternative to a social landlord was a not-for-profit company, run by a committee consisting of tenants, elected councillors and community representatives? Would you call that a private landlord?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 604625,
      "EditedText": "I would call that a privately financed landlord. The important thing, John, is that in the housing stock transfer in Glasgow, it is proposed that representation in the monolithic trust that will be created will be one third councillors and one third so-called independent business representatives. However, they will all be bypassed because the terms and conditions of the lending contract will determine what happens to the tenants. Unison has published a research paper that shows that in the case of a housing association or a monolithic trust, the lending contract will determine what happens to tenants, not decisions made at the board level. In other words, it is not meaningful representation, because the lenders will have the final say when the terms and conditions of the lending contracts are laid down.Jimmy Black, who represents the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations, said recently on the Lesley Riddoch show—which you were on, John—that the time will come when housing associations will have no public money; it will all be private. His statement confirms that so-called community-based housing associations will, in time, become private housing companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 604626,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, even council housing is privately financed because councils borrow the money to invest in housing in the private markets.I am interested in the £1.3 billion that is meant to be going into Glasgow's housing as a result of whatever kind of transfer is suggested. Figures given to this committee by Scottish Homes suggest that that £1.3 billion of private finance has been invested in their stock through transfers over the past 10 years. In order to attract that kind of private investment, they had to spend £2.5 billion of public money. How has that £1.3 billion been attracted into Glasgow? What is the carrot that has been offered to private investors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 604631,
      "EditedText": "We are saying that it should be transferred to the general taxpayer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 604632,
      "EditedText": "The Government does not seem to be saying that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 604637,
      "EditedText": "It is a matter of political will. We are saying that the debt should be transferred over to the general taxpayer. That is our position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 604640,
      "EditedText": "I can see where you are coming from and I am satisfied that you want a better living environment for the existing Glasgow council housing tenants. However, do you think that the vast majority of those consider the present situation to be satisfactory, or do they see Glasgow's housing as being a bit of a basket case and therefore would consider anything that is likely to improve their lot?Secondly, I found the briefing paper very interesting and refer you to the paragraph that begins:\"It is planned that one in every five Council houses\".Is the language that is used when the paper talks about cleansing and middle-class settlers not slightly provocative? If you take that apart, it is perhaps not terribly undesirable. There would be a massive injection of cash into the city, which would benefit the terribly disadvantaged people in the council schemes whom you are trying to help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 604642,
      "EditedText": "Would you agree that the housing association concept has been successful? Over the years, two or three associations have gone pear-shaped. However, the concept has been a classic illustration of how, when people are given ownership of a problem and the proper guidance, they adapt to those problems and work constructively towards a solution. Once this process is completed, we could have a fairly democratic structure, in which the tenant management representatives would have every opportunity to make their case and to give the layman's viewpoint, for want of a better word. At the same time, they would have the benefit of input from housing professionals, which they do not have in the current structure of Glasgow City Council's housing department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Macinnes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 604647,
      "EditedText": "First, I shall answer your final question, on keeping the community base. It is difficult to imagine how the community base could be retained if, in the process, the current population were scattered to the four winds. That final question covers all the other questions that you asked, and the question of retaining secure tenancy concerns a misnomer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 604648,
      "EditedText": "You are talking about the demolition situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 604652,
      "EditedText": "Is that not an issue that concerns the demolition proposals and the detail of what happens in each individual area?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Macinnes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 604653,
      "EditedText": "The two issues cannot be separated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 604657,
      "EditedText": "As I have already said to Bill Aitken, the housing associations were generally community-based but they are changing and becoming increasingly commercialised. What we are witnessing in Scotland, through stock transfer, has already happened in England, where housing associations have become virtually housing companies. Under their current structure, housing associations in Glasgow cannot take on 80,000 to 90,000 council houses. If they are to take on that kind of responsibility, they must be structured more commercially and become housing companies. That is what would happen. The other point to stress is that the trade unions and Glasgow City Council are absolutely opposed to the housing associations' involvement, as is the Scottish Tenants Organisation. Thousands of jobs would be lost if housing associations took over the housing. They would not take on a direct labour organisation—a direct labour organisation would be abolished. It is about time that someone stood up for direct labour organisations. In Glasgow they have a £5 million surplus, which they have reinvested in Glasgow. They are very efficient, well-run organisations, in spite of the bad publicity that many direct labour organisations have received because of the bad behaviour of one or two of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow (Scottish Tenants Organisation): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 604661,
      "EditedText": "It is worth while reminding the committee that municipal housing was created in the first place to deal with the damp and insanitary conditions that were provided by private landlords. The idea behind municipal housing was to get rid of those conditions and to provide decent housing at an affordable rent. We should consider that issue before we decide to offload to private finance the responsibility of housing some of the most vulnerable people in society. That is a serious point, which will have long-term consequences.On the condition of housing, it is tragic that a dalliance with new building techniques in the 1960s has produced the slums of the 1990s. While that is not the fault of tenants, they will have to live with the consequences of dealing with that problem—that is a serious point to consider. The view of the  Scottish Tenants Organisation, and the result of consultation with tenants throughout the country, is that many tenants are extremely concerned about the stock transfer process. They feel that they are being driven; they do not feel that they are being led. They do not feel that they are being consulted and they feel that the process is more about local authorities being unable to house them properly, which is a damning indictment both of the previous Conservative Government and of the present Government. There is no lead for people who believe that those who are most vulnerable and disadvantaged in society will not get support.We heard about the possibility of changes in the housing benefits system. I live in quite a poor area of north Edinburgh—it was formerly poor, but we have gone through a regeneration process and are supposed to be better off. However, that is not true. Regeneration has not tackled the underlying problems of poverty and deprivation. Any changes to housing benefit will cause a lot of people a great deal of concern and alarm.Income support is totally inadequate. People cannot live on income support; they exist, at best. Fifty-one pounds a week is not an income that anyone can live on, and I challenge any member of this committee to try to do so. People just exist on the margins; the most they can do is feed themselves and, possibly, heat their homes. Attacks on housing benefit coupled with the destabilisation of communities through stock transfer will create a lot of problems. Although you, as members of this Parliament, will not deal with those problems, I assure you that, in 20 or 30 years' time, your successors will be living with the consequences and they will wonder why you did what the stock transfer proposals suggest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Carracher: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 604666,
      "EditedText": "Convener, you asked whether housing associations were seen as part of the private sector. The answer is yes, they are in the private sector; they are not in the public sector. I think it was Nicholas Ridley who started using the phrases independent sector, social sector and so on, to muddy the waters between the public and private sectors and to make the transition easier. The language that has been used, such as community empowerment, is part of the problem, and we take issue with that way of dealing with the situation.Your question was about whether we take issue with housing associations. In principle, we would not have a problem with tenants asking and genuinely wanting the option of forming a community-based housing association. However, there would be problems if it were a forced process—one that followed someone else's agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 604671,
      "EditedText": "Leaving aside the vagaries of the private rented sector—I was not deliberately looking at Bill Aitken when I said that—the supply of private rented accommodation in a city such as Glasgow would come nowhere near matching the potential social problems that could be caused by the displacement of large numbers of people as a result of housing transfers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Carracher: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 604674,
      "EditedText": "Earlier this year the Government produced \"Partners in Participation\", which is a national strategy to involve tenants that defines participation as a sharing of ideas and power. There is little evidence of that taking place. The idea of participation seems to get sidelined, but when we talk about inclusion, accountability and openness, participation is of paramount importance as it goes to the heart of the democratic process.We are asking for a moratorium until the current processes are reviewed. For instance, in Glasgow the tenants were kept out of the feasibility study, in which they should have had a say. The council did not speak to the organised tenants movement. Councillor McCarron wrote to tenants to say that he would involve them once the council had come up with its ideas for action. That is not how participation should work.This document talks about the involvement of tenants in policy-making decisions, but that has not happened. The process is rushing ahead too fast for tenants, who tell us that they do not even know who is supposed to represent them. We are halfway down the road to a situation like that in Aberdeen and folk are saying that they do not even know who their representatives are. There is a huge problem with representation. It has been decided that there should be tenant representation, but nobody has spoken to the local tenants.A problem with a city such as Glasgow, with a huge number of houses, is that housing is parcelled up to go as one transfer. Tenants should have an input into that. A stock condition survey could be carried out to find out where the worst housing is so that the problem could be tackled from that point of view. It is essential that the tenants movements be given the time and space to get organised and resourced and to be brought into the discussion, which should be open and accountable. That would be a start, and then financial aspects could be considered.People should have the chance to do their own research and find out for themselves, and have an informed view on the matter. It is unacceptable that the process is rushing ahead too fast for most folk to catch up with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 604675,
      "EditedText": "It is worrying that the tenants movement has never been able to access the money that has been paid to consultants, advisers and so on. Tenants associations up and down the country have been starved of cash. We have been lucky in Edinburgh because the council has recognised the value of the work of tenants associations. I am secretary of the local tenants association, which has 1,200 households. We undertake a regular programme of activity and are grant-funded by the council.However, we have heard of associations elsewhere that are given £30 or £100 per year. That is derisory—it does not even pay the postage bill—and means that tenants cannot organise, be active, and keep informed. As John Carracher says, for most tenants, the housing stock transfer is a charade. They do not know what it is, what their part in it is or what their rights are. Tenants are being marginalised.The strategy action team of the social inclusion network produced a document that said that communities, volunteers and unpaid activists are marginalised by professionals. In any discussion about aspects of stock transfer, one is marginalised and patronised rather than being seriously included or treated with respect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 604676,
      "EditedText": "Previous witnesses and you have raised concerns about huge increases in rent that might arise from stock transfers. Are you, as an organisation that has contact with tenants around the country, aware of many cases of housing associations with rents that are considerably higher than local authority rents? I understand that the rents of many housing associations in Glasgow are lower then the rents of Glasgow City Council, and that the housing association stock is in much better condition. What are your views on that?Also, what are your views on a single social tenancy? In the 90 responses to the housing green paper, there was overwhelming support for the idea of a single social tenancy. If we were to negotiate a tenancy similar to that, would tenants be protected whether or not they were tenants of the new housing associations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Carracher: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 604680,
      "EditedText": "The question does not take into account the importance of tenants' right to decide what they want rather than having someone else telling them what they ought to want—that all that they should be concerned about is having a nice warm house in which they can stay like a wee furry animal.We have community ownership at present: houses owned by a local authority belong to the community and are public sector assets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 604681,
      "EditedText": "At one point, John said that the stock transfer project was driven by ideology. The groundswell of anger that I detect in the letters that I receive on the subject reminds me of the early days of the poll tax, when the fact that the Government was not telling the truth created fear in people's minds. Would you expand on the other agenda that is behind the transfer? It is not simply about refurbishment of houses or whatever; something else is going on. You and Sean Clerkin have suggested that, in the supposedly participatory process by which the neighbourhood forums are being organised, there is enormous hostility to anyone who is not jumping on the bandwagon. I detect an element of hostility in some of this morning's questions, too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 604683,
      "EditedText": "What do you have to say about the hostility that campaigning organisations such as yours are receiving from the Executive and local councils?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Carracher: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 604686,
      "EditedText": "Sometimes, it seems that the tenants are defending the indefensible. We believe that the public sector should be managed better. If tenants had been involved properly in the process, that might have happened. We do not want the public sector to be abolished; we want it to be improved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 604687,
      "EditedText": "Nobody would deny that. As an MP, I had sink estates in my constituency. As you say, Mr Carracher, there are some good estates, but some are appalling and disgraceful and are in that state because of bad planning, bad maintenance, bad transport and a lack of facilities and shops.The crucial thing is to improve housing, whether one uses private or public finance or a mixture of both. The public sector has, in the past 40 or 50 years, failed people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Carracher: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 604690,
      "EditedText": "Over the past couple of decades, the idea of tenants' choice has been promoted. We are asking for a real choice, which is based on a level playing field. People should not be forced to go to housing associations just because they cannot afford not to. It must be a real choice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 604703,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We have had substantial evidence. If you wish to submit any written evidence, please do so. There are several questions that we might want to follow up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie (Edinburgh Tenants Federation): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 604706,
      "EditedText": "Certainly. I will attempt to keep my introduction brief, although I should warn you that once I was called upon unexpectedly to talk to a local tenants group about stock transfer and I spoke for 40 minutes, followed by an hour of questions. Those people were not involved directly in stock transfer.Our federation's policy of opposition to stock transfer has been developed over a number of years. We did not arrive at that policy as a knee-jerk reaction to various Government policies. We looked at a range of issues concerning public sector housing. For your information, our federation represents not only council house tenants in Edinburgh, but a number of housing association tenants. In addition, one of our member associations represents private sector tenants. Some of them give us the greatest problems.We have been concerned for a long time by recent Governments' blatant attacks on the public sector. I am afraid that I draw no distinction between the present Government and its immediate predecessors. In the past, we supported Scottish Homes tenants' freedom of choice campaign, which aimed to keep its tenancies in the public sector. Unfortunately, that option was denied, and it is being denied to the remaining Scottish Homes tenants who are faced with stock transfer. At the time of that campaign, we were seriously disturbed by the actions of many housing associations which, in our view, behaved as predators in the transfer process, knowing that they were operating against the express wishes of Scottish Homes tenants. When the new towns were being wound up, the vast majority of tenants voted to remain in the public sector, yet their wishes were ignored. The new town ballots were an important indicator of the general views of public sector tenants across Scotland.Several years ago, we made a video about our organisation, detailing our activities and main concerns. We started it in 1996 and launched it in February 1997, just before the general election. We had intended the video to show how tenants organised and how tenants associations developed. The video was intended to give our tenants groups the opportunity to express their concerns, and to show our links with tenants across Scotland. During the making of the video, which became a 31-minute film, the aim changed. That was not deliberate—we had no set script or targets—but we ended up with a video that we entitled \"Invasion of the Home Snatchers\". You can understand the reasons for that.With most of our tenants groups, we looked at serious issues related to stock transfer, private finance initiatives and other matters that were detracting from the quality of the public sector. During that process, we formed our view of direct opposition to the stock transfer process with the rider—which is in our policy statements—that when tenants express a desire to change their landlord, all we are interested in is that those tenants get the best possible information and advice so that, at the end of the day, they make an informed decision.I will wind up with one final comment. I heard a number of people mention community ownership. I am a tenant of City of Edinburgh Council. My home is in community ownership. It is owned by all the community. That is the true meaning of community ownership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 604712,
      "EditedText": "We will talk to her."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 604713,
      "EditedText": "I talked to John Breslin about it very briefly. At a Chartered Institute of Housing seminar, he asked me directly whether I thought that it was feasible for us to take part in the group given that we were opposed to stock transfers. My view was that the tenants movement not only could but should take part, regardless of whether it was for or against stock transfer, because the advisory group considers something that is not related to stock transfer—the group assesses areas' needs and the quality of bids. Whether you are for or against stock transfer is irrelevant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 604714,
      "EditedText": "I totally agree with what you said, George, about the need for tenants to get the best possible information and advice. John Carracher made a point about the process being forced and about the fact that little notice appears to have been taken of the document \"Partners in participation\". Is that your experience?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 604715,
      "EditedText": "That is generally the case in Scotland, but obviously the situation varies. Where local authorities and tenants have developed and put into practice tenant participation policies—as has happened in Edinburgh, Dundee and some other areas—the problems are not the same as those in areas where tenant participation are just two words that mean nothing to the people who use them. I am concerned about the growth in the number of areas where tenants are being forced through the stock transfer process. We are in danger of getting into a situation where tenants will in effect be denied independent advice—even where it is on offer—for the practical reason that there are not enough people competent to deliver it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 604716,
      "EditedText": "The paper that you have provided is very useful and will be helpful to the committee. On the question of housing association and tenant co-operative units, you comment that you do not want mergers or large unresponsive organisations. From your experience of co-operatives and your knowledge of housing associations, do you have a view on the optimum unit? What would its remit be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604722",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 604722,
      "EditedText": "Has there been any attempt by all tenants organisations across Scotland to come together to petition Parliament in support of such a moratorium, for example?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 604724,
      "EditedText": "As convener of the Public Petitions Committee, I assure you that such a petition would be considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 604725,
      "EditedText": "I thought that that was what you meant, John."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 604728,
      "EditedText": "Edinburgh Tenants Federation is working on that—we call it the tenants' vision for housing in Scotland—but it will take some time to complete. We had hoped to produce our alternative view when we produced our response to the housing green paper, but we wanted the latter to be circulated in May—I was under the impression that MSPs had already received it, but apparently they have not. We are still working on the vision. It is complex and there is an awful lot more work to be done. However, we do things democratically, by consulting all our members—that is how we produced the green paper response—and democracy is a long, slow and costly process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 604731,
      "EditedText": "George, thank you very much. Your points are well made. If you produce any more work, we will be more than happy to receive it. We will follow up the points that have been made in our discussions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 604732,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee for listening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 604736,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty, which some of the earlier speakers touched on, is the lack of transparency. The tenants in the city have not been as fully involved in the process as they should have been. That has caused confusion; it has also caused the debate to become polarised and unhelpful. One of the issues that we identified in our minority report was the lack of transparency and the fact that the tenants movement should be far more involved in the process. We have never said that we think that the entire council stock in Glasgow should be transferred to housing associations. The movement could not absorb that. We have 41,000 units; the council has somewhere between 90,000 and 95,000. That is a vast difference. What we have said is that there has been a model of transfer in Glasgow in the past 10 years and that we believe that the model can work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 604741,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask about the potential involvement of the housing association movement. You said that the housing associations were not in a position to take on all 95,000 houses in question in Glasgow. You have the benefit of the structures that you have developed over a period. How long does it typically take a housing association to reach the stage of having sufficient experience and representation to play a proper part? What is the optimum size of a housing association, if we take into account the possibility of taking on additional stock? Are there advantages in housing associations with a community base being major building blocks in this process? If so, what are they? What, realistically, is the potential for the housing associations to take on at least part of the stock transfer process under a community-based arrangement? Are there time limits on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 604750,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Something that we have been looking for in the debate is clarity of definitions. What does community ownership mean? Talk to 10 people and you will get 10 different answers. For us, it means locally controlled organisations, with the optimum number of housing units being up to 2,000, whereas the Housing and Care Advisory Services talked about community ownership in terms of the creation of a housing trust with 75,000 units.When we met Calum Macdonald before the Scottish Parliament elections, he spoke about a partnership code of practice that would cover definitions of community ownership, which would have included ourselves, local authorities, tenants and all other relevant bodies. I was also at the meeting here on, I think, 15 September when the minister said that she felt that that was an inappropriate way forward.I think that a great opportunity was missed. Confusion surrounds this debate because there are no parameters. Nobody has sat down and taken the time to discuss what is meant by certain things. Because people are not getting the right information, a lot of misinformation is circulating."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 604751,
      "EditedText": "You are opposed to the single transfer in Glasgow, which is further evidence that the transfer mechanism is being driven by the Government's needs. It must be easier to handle the debt as one £950 million debt and to have a single transfer than to have a whole series of transfers that may lead to problems of cherry picking and putting bad housing with good housing. It also gives the city strategic control of the vacant building land and the demolition process, allowing it to choose the best bits to develop private housing. Is that the view of the housing association movement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 604755,
      "EditedText": "In your reply to Robert Brown, you said that there was no way that the existing housing association network could absorb the 90,000 houses that would be involved in the Glasgow transfer. It is likely that new housing associations will be formed which would operate locally, as people identify with the area in which they live. Sometimes that can be a very narrow identity in a highly localised area.Do you envisage a situation in which there would be co-operation between housing associations in purchasing repairs? Supposing that the direct labour organisation in Glasgow were subject to a management buy-out, the housing association movement would have to be able to guarantee to the DLO repairs worth around £40 million a year if the buy-out were to be viable. Do you think that the housing associations would co-operate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 604756,
      "EditedText": "There is already a precedent. Scottish Homes' previous DLO was contracted for a number of years to work with the housing associations that were created as a result of those transfers. Coincidentally, my own association has a DLO. It is not correct to assume that housing associations do not employ tradespeople directly; some do and have done for a considerable time. Because a precedent has already been established, co-operation is a possibility, so the answer to your question is yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 604760,
      "EditedText": "I want to draw to a conclusion now. We have had quite a morning. Thank you very much, Alan and Isobel. Your evidence has been extremely useful. I am sure that your association will continue to submit evidence as the case develops.We normally take five or 10 minutes at the end of evidence session to discuss how to follow up some of the issues that have been raised. We have heard substantial evidence this morning and a number of issues have been flagged up. Perhaps if we do not have the time to do justice to every point at this meeting, we can raise the matter at the start of the next meeting as part of an item on organising further evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 604767,
      "EditedText": "We proposed that two or three weeks back."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 604768,
      "EditedText": "I must have missed that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604770",
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 604770,
      "EditedText": "Is it on the list?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 604771,
      "EditedText": "It is not on the list, as the idea was first to write to Glasgow City Council, and perhaps Dumfries and Galloway Council, asking them to attend a meeting to give the council perspective on why they were pursuing whole stock transfers. However, I support the other speakers. The main message to emerge from this morning's meeting was that a large representative chunk of tenants is being excluded from the process of making decisions about stock transfers. Their views are just not being taken on board or given any kind of public airing. They must be brought into the public domain by this committee.I also agree with Fiona Hyslop that we must speak to the investors. The implications of stock transfer for housing benefit are serious. We must hear from the investors' mouths whether, if there is a reduction in housing benefit, that will affect their intention to put up the kind of money that they are going to put up. Even housing associations, as we heard this morning, are indicating that the Government's description of the financing of this scheme does not add up to a £1.7 billion investment in Glasgow's housing. We need that evidence as well.We must pursue the issue of getting into statute what constitutes a community-based housing organisation, as housing associations that are based on the English model are coming into Scotland. There is a danger that, although this Executive might not implement the English model, Executives in the future could use the basis of what we are allowing to come into statute to bring in English models. This is a long-term issue, and we must be aware of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 604773,
      "EditedText": "I was told by COSLA and others that there is an expert—Steve somebody, who is based in England—who has studied stock transfers, particularly in Scotland, in depth. He may be the man to advise us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18311,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 18311,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 604781,
      "EditedText": "There are one or two items on the agenda to which I must draw your attention. The timetable for the committee's future business is on-going. I do not think that there need be any major changes to that. One issue that I would like to draw to the committee's attention relates to the drugs work that we have been engaged in—the informal briefings that we have been having.We recommend that next week's agenda also contains the planning of future business around the drugs inquiry. That will include two papers from the clerk, which will concern the appointment of the adviser for the drugs inquiry and the timetabling of future business. As we will probably be talking about individuals, it has been recommended that we take that very short session in private, at the end. That must be brought to the committee's attention. I reassure everyone that that is necessary only because we are talking about named individuals. Nothing in the drugs inquiry will be hidden from the public view, in case any journalist from The Scotsman suspects a hidden agenda. Do members have any other points that they would like to raise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18311,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 18311,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 604783,
      "EditedText": "After the recess? A parliamentary debate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18311,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 18311,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 604784,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That gives the committee something else to think about before next week's meeting. Debating that will keep us focused for a wee while. I thank committee members for their forbearance during what has been a substantial meeting. I also thank those who gave evidence. It was extremely stimulating and very helpful in our consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 604618,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in what you were saying about Scotland, and Glasgow in particular, being a test-bed. I understand that Birmingham is considering a stock transfer proposal and consulting the Housing and Care Advisory Services on that.We need to explore what we mean by community ownership. I am interested in how the tenants perceive the participation process. Because we have been promised that community ownership will mean that tenants are more involved and will be given more power and control, we need to know what their involvement is at the moment. That will provide a good indication of what might happen subsequently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 604620,
      "EditedText": "Are tenants being paid to participate in housing neighbourhood forums?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 604622,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that the participation process in the lead-up to this transfer is not satisfactory? Are you confident that there has been full consultation and involvement of tenants, and that their views are being heard effectively?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 604710,
      "EditedText": "What is your view of the fact that there is no tenant on the new housing partnership advisory group, which decides the moneys?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 604763,
      "EditedText": "Furthermore, the issue of private lenders has been raised in every evidence session. Perhaps we need to find out lenders' views on finances and their rates in Glasgow and elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.3030692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18309,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18309,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 604591,
      "EditedText": "The action point is brief. We need to pursue the issue of Scottish Homes. The information that we requested is important to us and we need to reflect on it in reaching our conclusions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 604593,
      "EditedText": "We will now move on to the evidence session on housing stock transfers. We have already had considerable discussion on this subject and are keen this morning to hear tenants' views on the proposals. As there has been a wee hiccup in the arrangements with witnesses, I will change the order to allow the witnesses who are late to settle. We will hear the evidence, ask questions and then move on as appropriate. There will be time later for discussion.We will start with Sean Clerkin and Ian Macinnes from the Glasgow Campaign Against Housing Stock Transfer. Sean, have you read the Official Report of this committee before? I think that you have been told that we would like a brief introduction, after which we will ask you questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Macinnes (Glasgow Campaign Against Housing Stock Transfer): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 604600,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I will take some points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 604602,
      "EditedText": "The answer to that is straightforward. The £1 billion debt must be written off immediately. As I said, that would release up to £120 million a year for the repair and refurbishment of housing. We also think that rents in the city should be affordable—they are far too high. We want higher public investment, through the restoration of the housing support grant, funded by general taxation. Essentially, we want housing to be part of a programme of social justice. For too many years, housing has been the Cinderella in public policy. We also want the borrowing consent to be increased. The £20 million borrowing consent was withdrawn from Glasgow this year. In our estimation, that policy is a deliberate attempt to force or blackmail tenants into voting yes at the stock transfer ballot in November 2000. If people vote no, they will be saying yes to what I have just said. There will be a general election only five months after the ballot. Labour MPs are not turkeys—they will not vote for Christmas. They will argue in favour of public sector investment and public sector housing, given that the main Opposition parties are opposed to stock transfer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 604603,
      "EditedText": "I want to take you back a wee bit. I understand your analysis; I was really asking a different question. If you achieved substantial investment in council housing, what would the immediate, medium-term and long-term issues be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 604610,
      "EditedText": "This is a smoke-and-mirrors policy. The real agenda is to increase the role of the free market and to roll back the welfare state. Public sector housing is part of the welfare state, and so-called community ownership is nothing more than a form of words to hide the fact of wholesale privatisation. The academic study that we commissioned through Professor Mattheus Beck shows that, at a conservative estimate, profits would be 8 per cent per annum under so-called community ownership. That means that there will be massive rent rises under the new system.The other thing to bear in mind is the fact that the green paper on housing benefit has still to be issued. We all know that housing benefit will be cut. Under the new system, tenants will face massive rent increases and will be forced to pay part of their income support and pensions towards rents. That is why we need reductions in rents in Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 604611,
      "EditedText": "We will explore this issue with other people as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 604615,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The report stated that, over the next two years, rents would rise by an average of 6 per cent per annum. We know that this year the increase is only 2.9 per cent, but that is not to say that there will not be substantial rent rises in the years to come as a sweetener for the private sector. That is what will happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 604623,
      "EditedText": "There has been no proper consultation. The Glasgow and West of Scotland Forum of Housing Associations, which is represented here today, stated four months ago in its minority report on the feasibility study that the whole process was being rushed through and that a lot of information was not being allowed into the public domain. That was widely quoted in the media. Tenants are not being properly consulted, especially in relation to demolitions in areas such as the centre of Drumchapel, where I was last night. The first time that tenants knew anything about that was when we discussed it with them last night."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 604627,
      "EditedText": "To return to your comment about the council borrowing from the private sector, the council goes through the Public Works Loan Board for the money. It borrows at a far cheaper rate of interest than that obtained by housing associations or trusts that borrow from the private sector. The council borrowing would be more cost-effective. Experts such as Allyson Pollock at University College London have shown that the public-private partnerships to which you refer are inherently far more expensive than direct public investment. The cheapest and most cost-effective form of investment would be direct public investment in public sector housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 604629,
      "EditedText": "The council has not informed them. Tenants receive letters on a Friday and every time we have received a letter from Charlie Gordon—and before that, James McCarron—on the matter, we have not been told how the money will be levered in. Everything has been done in secret. There is a conflict of interest in the steering group that is currently meeting in Glasgow, with Wendy Alexander and Frank McAveety being parachuted in and interfering in Glasgow's own affairs. They are, in effect, bypassing the city council to try to impose the housing association model. It is a breach of constitutional rules. Rani Dhir from the Southdeen Housing Co-operative, who sits on the group, is involved in the housing demolition that will be taking place in the centre of Drumchapel. My point is that there is a conflict of interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 604633,
      "EditedText": "Our campaign is saying that it should be transferred to the general taxpayer. Under the trust proposals, it is not clear that the debt will be transferred over. The debt will remain with Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 604635,
      "EditedText": "That is what we are advocating."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 604636,
      "EditedText": "The evidence that we have had so far suggests that that is not the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 604638,
      "EditedText": "Is there any alternative to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 604641,
      "EditedText": "Glasgow tenants are very unhappy with the terrible state of the city's council housing. We are not arguing for the status quo. You talk about demolitions and creating a better environment. In Ruchill, Keppoch and the centre of Drumchapel, local people are up in arms because too little socially rented housing would be built to accommodate people on income support and housing benefit. Most of it would be for private sale. In the centre of Drumchapel, more than 1,000 houses would be built for sale. Only 277 houses would be provided for rent under Glasgow City Council's rules, some of which would be special needs housing. Many people will be kicked out of the area in which they have always lived, all because Glasgow City Council wants to increase its council tax base. It will be at the expense of local people and local communities.In our campaign, local people are telling us that they want housing demolished, repaired or refurbished but to remain council owned. In other words, enhanced investment in public sector housing would do the job a lot better and would keep local people in local communities, which is where they want to stay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 604643,
      "EditedText": "Twenty years ago, housing associations were genuinely community-based, but the concept is changing. They are becoming commercialised—that is the key word. Since 1989, more and more of the funding has come from the private sector. Currently, new capital projects receive 40 per cent funding from the private sector and 60 per cent from the public sector.As I have already stated to Margaret Curran, if a flood of money comes into Glasgow from the private sector—the £1.3 billion—those housing associations will amalgamate and become housing companies, just as housing associations in England and Wales have done. Some of them are asking to become plcs. They are becoming increasingly commercialised.The nature of housing associations has changed. The terms and conditions of the lending contract with private financiers will determine the actions of these privately financed landlords. They are vehicles for private finance—that is what we are saying. That is what this stock transfer is all about, not only in Glasgow but throughout Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 604650,
      "EditedText": "What I am saying is that the housing associations, as they currently exist, have a track record of community-based involvement. Would those associations not be a good vehicle for the community development that we want to happen under the stock transfer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Macinnes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 604651,
      "EditedText": "If, through the continuing process, communities are disrupted and broken up, what you are saying does not make sense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Carracher (Scottish Tenants Organisation): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 604659,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee for the opportunity to present our case today, and to put forward the views of tenants. There are two strands to the views that we represent. I shall talk about the participation process, or lack of it, and Jenni will be quite happy to answer questions about the financial side. She has far more in-depth knowledge about those kinds of issues than I have, so I am happy to direct any relevant questions to her.Our view is that the housing stock transfer process is a forced process that is dictated by the Government and landlords, in which tenants have very little control or power and absolutely no choice. It is a hard-sell exercise that takes no account of tenants' views on whether transfers are necessary, and decisions are driven through regardless of opposition. The whole process amounts to the manufacture of consent, and is dressed up as having the endorsement of tenants. Illusions are created of tenants being in the driving seat, although the opposite is true.The idea that the transfer ballots are somehow about choice is deceptive, as the choice is only that which is favoured by others, not freely chosen by tenants. They are crude actions that are promoted as democratic choices, although tenants are voting away their right to a democratic choice. Ballot results are not a true reflection of tenants' real needs and wishes. Leading tenants in a direction that is determined by others, and then asking them to question whether they want to jump or be pushed, is not part of the much-vaunted new culture of inclusion, participation, openness and accountability.As we have seen with housing stock transfers by Scottish Homes and others, the process is quite simply a juggernaut that rolls over people to get to a destination that must be attained at all costs. It is based on an ideology that claims that the public sector is bad and the private sector is good and that carries its own flawed logic. It dictates how people should proceed, whether  they like it or not, which cannot be right in a democratic society.At present, councils have a legal duty to ensure that their housing stock is in a tenantable and habitable condition, but successive Governments have denied councils the ability to fulfil that duty. Surely that is wrong, given the condition of our housing stock? Does that mean that the Government is happy to see councils break the law? Is the Government breaking the law?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 604673,
      "EditedText": "I have one final question. John Carracher rightly started his evidence by saying that the status quo is not acceptable, as clearly there are major problems with the housing stock, particularly in Glasgow. We have read about the concentration of poverty and deprivation in Glasgow and the west of Scotland in all the newspapers this morning. You talked about increased participation, and gave your concerns about housing associations. I know that tenants are not happy with the service that they do not get from the council, so the status quo is not an option. Could you tell us more about your alternative model?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 604662,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. That evidence was helpful.Before I hand over to Alex Neil, I want to ask a couple of factual questions. You mentioned tenants' views and perspective in your evidence. First, do you have research or documentary evidence of the STO's consultation exercise to back up what you said, and which could be presented to us as a formal submission? Secondly, do you see community associations as being in the private sector?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 604663,
      "EditedText": "Our evidence comes from our affiliated organisations, some of which are going through stock transfer proposals. I have been part of the regeneration of the Muirhouse-Pennywell area of north Edinburgh and have first-hand experience of addressing regeneration issues, such as demolition and the introduction of low-cost homes and housing associations stock. A lot of the other information comes from our member organisations, which send representations to us about their concerns, particularly from Glasgow and Aberdeenshire and, to some degree, from Dundee. There are concerns about the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 604665,
      "EditedText": "We share the fundamental concerns of the Glasgow Campaign Against Housing Stock Transfer. I emphasise that the money that local authorities have comes from the Public Works Loan Board, through a mechanism that is not directly affected by the vagaries of the economic system. The money is there. Councils need to borrow it and, provided that consent is given, are able to do so.The issue of housing associations and community ownership is much more directly related to finance provision, which causes serious problems. For example, what will happen if the economy goes into a nosedive? How will that affect housing finance? There are no clear indications as to what would happen if the economy went into a serious recession. At present, we are in a period of prosperity and people want to lend money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 604667,
      "EditedText": "I want to develop the issue of housing finance. When Scottish Homes gave evidence, in this very room, three or four weeks ago, I asked the witnesses if anyone had looked at the cost of borrowing from the private sector over a 20 or 30-year period, in comparison with the cost of borrowing through the Public Works Loan Board. I was shocked to discover that neither Scottish Homes nor the Scottish Executive have undertaken such an exercise. It is beyond belief that we can pursue a policy that has not been properly thought out or costed.Although I know that it is not easy and would require a lot of professional resources, has the STO tried to undertake such an exercise? Has the work that you have undertaken indicated how much more it would cost to borrow money in the way that is being proposed under housing stock transfer?This committee deals with both housing and social inclusion. If, as you predict, rents are jacked up by an enormous amount to fund the additional costs of private borrowing, will that displace people who cannot pay the hugely increased rents? Where will they go? By definition, social housing stock will have gone down to a dribble if the transfers go through. Have you thought those issues through? What do you think will happen to those people who may be driven out of their homes by excessive rents to pay the fat cats who lend the money to the housing associations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 604668,
      "EditedText": "In answer to your first question, annual borrowings by local authorities are on a much greater scale than private companies. Therefore, local authorities are able to borrow at a cheaper rate than the private sector. Local authority borrowing is done through the Government, so it is a more protected source of borrowing than is available to the private sector. What happens in a recession is a serious concern. We have a capitalist economy—I am not questioning that—so we are subject to the vagaries of the market, and billions can be wiped off the value of shares. Therefore, in a sense, the public sector vehicle is the most cost-effective way to deliver cash for housing finance.On rent levels, it is worrying that there has not been a serious analysis of the problems of housing associations in coping with repairs and the depreciation of stock. Housing associations face difficulties when their stock starts to age at a certain rate. They have to either jack up the rents to cover the cost of paying for repairs—especially if they are major jobs such as putting in new roofs, windows or heating systems—or build more houses. However, there is no guarantee that they will be able to build more houses, as that will involve getting more land and money to buy the land, and so on. At the moment, some displaced housing association tenants come back to local authorities. We have evidence that tenants who are evicted by housing associations look to local authorities to provide somewhere to stay. The other option is to go into the totally private sector, which is absolutely insecure and causes stress and strain, especially to people with young children."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 604669,
      "EditedText": "Does the wholesale transfer of the housing stock, as is proposed for Glasgow, not cause the problem that the first option of going to the local authority is ruled out because local authorities will have no housing left?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 604670,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 604678,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to know your views on the single social tenancy, particularly whether you thought that it would guarantee tenants' rights. You mentioned concerns about some tenants having no option but to go into the private rented sector. However, if they had statutory rights under the housing association, rather than having only an assured tenancy, the situation would be better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 604685,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for being late; I was at the Health and Community Care Committee, which was examining a matter that is relevant to my constituency.Mr Carracher said that there was a general view that the private sector is good and the public sector bad. I would point out that, from his evidence and the evidence before, we could gain the opposite impression. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, does it not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 604692,
      "EditedText": "It is not very constructive to apportion blame."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 604694,
      "EditedText": "I understand your feelings, but Keith has a right to ask his question."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 604696,
      "EditedText": "Before we go into a general political analysis—"
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  },
  {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 604702,
      "EditedText": "There is a conflict of interest in Wendy Alexander's position on the steering group determining Glasgow's future. You may be able to get round it with fancy lawyer words and so on, but it is an ethical and moral conflict of interest. The stock transfer process is ethically and morally flawed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 604707,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, George. That was very helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 604711,
      "EditedText": "We have not talked to Wendy Alexander about that, as no one has been given the opportunity to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 604717,
      "EditedText": "I have not given much thought to that and nor has the Edinburgh Tenants Federation. Within Edinburgh, there are large housing associations and small housing associations, which might genuinely be said to be community-based organisations. The worry with the larger ones is who controls them. They are certainly not tenant-controlled. Allegedly, they are community-controlled, but what does that mean? We are unclear about where accountability lies within such organisations. The larger they are, the more questions must be raised about who is in the driving seat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 604719,
      "EditedText": "Yes, if the organisation of housing associations is all that is being considered. However, there is a range of other issues relating to housing associations—some of them have been covered this morning—such as future finance, rent levels and democratic structures. The extent of tenant involvement is important, but I can think of only one housing association that is fully tenant-controlled. That is Fife Special Housing Association, which is composed of ex-Scottish Homes tenants who were forced through a transfer process. They campaigned for transfer to the local authority and were denied it, so they took control of the organisation themselves, as a second option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 604720,
      "EditedText": "Both the Glasgow Campaign Against Housing Stock Transfer and the Scottish Tenants Organisation have called for a moratorium on stock transfers until all the options have been properly reviewed. Does Edinburgh Tenants Federation support that call?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 604729,
      "EditedText": "Don't we know it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson (Glasgow and West of Scotland Forum of Housing Associations): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 604734,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee for this opportunity to speak to you. We have agreed that I will do a short presentation, after which we will be happy to answer questions.I had hoped to give a short presentation on the stock transfer issue, but given that the housing association movement, which I know and love, has received a bit of a doing this morning, I will put the comments that have been made into context.I will be rather parochial and talk about my organisation. I work for Milnbank Housing Association in the east end of Glasgow. We have been registered for 25 years. In that time, we have renovated or built more than 1,000 units and have spent £35 million of public subsidy. We have raised £2 million in private finance in the past 10 years. We have open waiting lists and nomination agreements with the local authorities. Most important, we are owned, managed and controlled by local tenants. That is a key point. Our rents are, on average, £136 a month for a three-apartment house; it is £182 for a comparable City of Glasgow Council house. I take the point about the grants made to housing associations. We have received a good financial deal from the Government, but the notion that we are run by faceless financial mandarins is nonsense. We are controlled, owned and managed by local tenants. Because they have control of the rental stream, they can determine our organisation's priorities. We are currently considering upgrading stock that was improved 20 years ago. We sit on equity of about £6 million in stock. We bought out the old Scottish Homes residual loans and we can now borrow on that.Sean Clerkin referred to that as the commercialisation of housing. I would say that it represents community empowerment. Our committee is determining the priorities. If stock transfers take place in Glasgow, we have no intention of amalgamating with any organisations. The housing association movement in Scotland, and in Glasgow in particular, is small, community-controlled and tenant-led. We jealously guard that and will seek to do so irrespective of the scale of stock transfers that may take place over the coming years.Housing associations and co-operatives in Glasgow are concerned about the lack of strategic context in stock transfer. When the committee questions the Executive, we would ask it to find out what the strategic vision for public rented housing—which we are part of—is likely to be in the coming years. The opening of the Parliament has created the opportunity to provide Scottish solutions to Scottish problems. We have picked up the balls that were in play when the Parliament was established but I do not think that anyone has taken breath and asked, \"What do we want our public rented housing to achieve in the coming years?\" That links in with what is happening in Glasgow. Since our involvement in the city council feasibility study, our concern has been the lack of strategic context. Do we want housing to play a role in matters such as social inclusion? That links into other areas such as health, education, and transport—all the issues that affect towns and cities in Scotland. Alternatively, will we try only to get better accommodation for people to live in and accept that a significant minority of the population will live in what would be benefit-dependent estates? Our concern about the Glasgow stock transfer is the lack of strategy and lack of linkage with social inclusion. Neither the council's preferred option of a feasibility study nor the work of the advisory group, which the minister set up, are addressing those issues. There are no links with social inclusion, training and unemployment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 604735,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Alan. You obviously listened to our discussions earlier, although you are coming at this issue from a slightly different angle. I accept the global point that you are making about the importance of strategic vision and links to job creation and other issues. On the detail of the Glasgow stock transfer, what specific things should be happening that are not happening?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 604738,
      "EditedText": "The detail of that has not come out yet. We still have concerns about proper risk assessments. The council's feasibility study talked about onward transfer at some future date; it said that onward transfer would take place only if it did not put the proposed trust at financial risk. We saw that as a veto on future transfers.We have not yet seen the steering group's framework document. We do not know how it thinks that the mechanism for onward transfers will work if all the stock is transferred to one holding company, as is being suggested. One of our biggest concerns is resources. The feasibility study suggests that £1.3 billion will be spent on 75,000 houses. That averages at £17,000 per house. Our experience of renovating such property in Glasgow is that it costs double that amount. Are the resources there? That is one of the key questions that we would like to ask."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 604744,
      "EditedText": "If we held on to the community-based model that we have in Glasgow, we probably would not want many of the existing housing associations to treble in size, because they have to be identified with their own communities. We have been talking about Glasgow, where most people identify strongly with their area. I live and work in the east end and, like most eastenders, I get dizzy if I go west of George Street.Where housing associations or co-ops exist, there is a potential for linkage with local authority stock, but there are large areas of the city where there is no housing association tradition. It is up to the tenants there, with the help of all the information that should be available to them, to determine their future."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 604747,
      "EditedText": "I have a question about the strategic development of the housing associations—a difficult question because I know that a lot of things are still up for grabs. Do you ever see Scotland going down the England road, where housing associations are quite different?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
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      "EditedText": "Absolutely not. If someone came to our management committee and painted the picture that Sean Clerkin did earlier, the only thing that I would do would be to lay on a taxi to the Royal infirmary, which is only two miles down the road. There is no way that the community-based movement that has been built up in Scotland will be lost.We recognise the difficulties that there have been in England, and we recognise that a lot of housing associations down there sold their souls to secure developments and to build houses with grants of 30 per cent or 40 per cent, ending up with very high rents. The housing association movement in Scotland does not have that tradition and there has been absolutely no movement towards it in the past 20 years of my involvement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 604749,
      "EditedText": "I take that point. I regret the fact that the Scottish Parliament did not have the opportunity to have a wide-ranging debate on the future of housing in Scotland, which could have informed any legislation it will pass, because the Executive, to a large extent, has pre-empted what housing policy will be over the next 20 or 30 years by opting so strongly for stock transfers.My perception of the Scottish housing association movement is that it is small, community-based and tenant-controlled. However, there is evidence that that is beginning to change. Sanctuary Housing Association has come into Dundee and the Home Group has come in elsewhere in Scotland. Those are big English-based housing associations that are very different from the kind of housing association that you represent. In the housing bill that is coming before the Parliament next year, would there be any value in having a statutory definition of what constitutes a registered social landlord in terms of a housing association, laying down that the landlord has to be of a certain size, has to be tenant-controlled, and has to be community-based? That would legally prohibit any of those big English-based housing associations coming into Scotland. Would you support that?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604762",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 604762,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should formally ask the Scottish Tenants Organisation to provide more detail with its evidence. Such information might be useful when we question the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 604764,
      "EditedText": "We have a lot of work to do on the whole financial strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 604766,
      "EditedText": "I felt that very strongly as well. Your point about the tenants' views is absolutely right.As a result of John McAllion's work, I want to hear the councils' perspective: not just the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, but Glasgow City Council itself. I want to find out why the council proposed a single transfer and what the other options were. John, could we squeeze that in somewhere?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 604769,
      "EditedText": "We suggested that the time for that would be after Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 604772,
      "EditedText": "I agree entirely with John McAllion. One of the most apposite points to emerge today was the need to pin down what we are talking about. An awful lot of confusion seemed to surround people's perceptions of what is being proposed—not unnaturally, as it is all happening, to a large extent, behind closed doors. The other point that emerged was that we are beginning to develop criteria against which to measure what we want to come out of all this. Clearly, housing investment must start with tenant involvement in an effective way, on the ground. The housing association representations were very much along those lines.It strikes me that we are getting into foreign territory on the financial front, as I have doubts about our individual ability to judge the merits of the financial packages that are being implemented. That being quite a tricky area, should we seek an independent adviser to guide us? There is a whole series of complicated issues, from the public sector borrowing requirement downwards—including the depth issue, the capital issue, the ability to sustain over a period—in which I claim no expertise. I doubt whether other committee members do either. I would appreciate input and guidance from professionals in that field."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 604775,
      "EditedText": "One of the organisations—perhaps Chapman Hendy Associates—may have experts in the financial field."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 604777,
      "EditedText": "We also received the impression today that the Executive is driving an agenda to transfer all council houses to some other landlord. That is not the case, although that might be the proposal in Glasgow. I would like more information on that. In some of the areas in which I have been involved, stock transfer has occurred where there has been a problem in levering in finance. It does not happen when good-quality stock is concerned, as there are not the same problems. We want to know just what the agenda is."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604780",
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      "ID": 3357
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 604780,
      "EditedText": "We should refer that to John, who will report to next week's meeting. We will be able to have 15 or 20 minutes' discussion on that. That will give us time to ruminate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18311,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 604782,
      "EditedText": "At the meeting of the conveners liaison group yesterday, it was suggested that, after Christmas, four half-days will be given over to individual committees if they want to have a debate on a report or anything. The committee might want to consider bidding for one of those half-days between January and May, for a debate on one of the issues that we are discussing. I am not saying that we should have a report published by that time, but we could perhaps ask for a debate on any of the three issues that we are examining."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604785",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:35."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 24 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:04"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604594",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin (Glasgow Campaign Against Housing Stock Transfer): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 604594,
      "EditedText": "I have been told that I have five minutes."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 604595,
      "EditedText": "You will see from the Official Report that, although we like to interact with visitors, they have plenty of time to give their point of view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
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      "EditedText": "Is my five-minute introduction uninterrupted?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 604601,
      "EditedText": "I will start and then open the discussion up to other members, although I reserve the right to come back.Your views were very clear, Sean, and you have obviously put a lot of work into this. Can you tell us about the future of council housing in Glasgow in particular—although this has ramifications for the rest of Scotland? The committee has had lots of evidence about housing stock and some of the crises that have occurred over the past 20 years because of neglect. What do you see as the short-term, medium-term and long-term priorities for investment in housing stock in Glasgow?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604604",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Macinnes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 604604,
      "EditedText": "One immediate issue which Sean covered was the fact that, if the debt can be written off with privatisation, it can just as well and just as easily be written off without it. In the immediate term, £121 million could be utilised, as Sean indicated. That is in the short term. The moratorium is a medium-term issue. It would enable a proper discussion to take place. As part of the outcome, we would envisage the creation of a grants system. It does not matter whether that retains the name of the old system, as long as the system is in place so that local authorities—Glasgow in particular, as it has such a large housing stock—can carry out proper repair and maintenance in the short and medium term, but also with a view to the distant future. The proposed privatisation of Glasgow's housing could give rise to an awful lot of scaffolding going up in the next five to 10 years. After that scaffolding comes down, major and minor dignitaries will cut a lot of coloured ribbons and some of the people who live in the areas concerned will live a nice, happy life ever after, provided that their incomes are up to paying the rent or mortgage. In cases where people's incomes are not up to that, tenants will be blamed at a later stage; that has happened in the past when housing associations and local councils have embarked on projects involving tenants in all kinds of decision-making processes. Such projects are laudable, but they have tended to be neglected later on because they were bereft of the required finance. That is the stumbling block in the medium to long term. If everything goes to the private sector, there is the prospect of moving towards a 19th century model, on the lines of \"Bleak House\". Modernisation would then be about the computers that are needed to calculate the debt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 604608,
      "EditedText": "We are against all stock transfers that involve the privatisation of public sector housing. We have made our position crystal clear. The trade unions in Glasgow are worried about the adoption of the housing association model; they know that the Scottish Executive favours that model. That is why a turf war is under way between Wendy Alexander and Charlie Gordon. There are not enough housing associations in Glasgow to take over 80,000 to 90,000 council houses; the structures do not exist and the direct labour organisation would cease to function. The trade unions fear that thousands of jobs would be lost. For that reason, we are absolutely opposed to the housing association model or to one monolithic trust, which is just a way of privatising our housing stock. We want housing to be properly funded by the public sector. Control of that could be decentralised by placing power in the hands of tenants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 604612,
      "EditedText": "We are looking to gather the facts about housing stock transfer and community ownership. Sean has made a number of statements about, for example, rents being much higher under housing associations. What evidence does he have to back up that assertion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 604614,
      "EditedText": "Is that only for Glasgow?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 604617,
      "EditedText": "I want to let Fiona Hyslop in now, Cathie. We will explore the issue that you have raised in later evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 604621,
      "EditedText": "Not to participate in the forums themselves. However, a company called TMS, which is running focus groups of tenants on behalf of Glasgow City Council at Wheatley House, the headquarters of Glasgow's housing department, has been paying tenants £20 per session to attend those meetings. The letters that we have received state that that fee is designed to cover travel expenses. However, it does not cost a tenant on income support that much to travel back on the subway; with £20, they could travel to Edinburgh and back. We think that the payment is influencing the opinions that tenants are expressing in the focus groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 604628,
      "EditedText": "Have the tenants been told how that £1.3 billion of private investment in Glasgow's council stock is to be achieved? What is the carrot that will bring—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 604630,
      "EditedText": "On the debt issue, I assume—and I wonder what the view of your organisation is—that the carrot that brings in the private investment is not only the rental stream for the next 30 years, but the wiping out of £950 million of debt. It has been suggested that the capital allocations that were previously linked to Glasgow would be used to wipe out that debt. However, capital allocations are consents to Glasgow City Council to borrow, and were funded from rents that Glasgow council used to receive. That is a red herring. Where is that £950 million, the servicing costs of the debt, to come from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 604634,
      "EditedText": "That is what I am trying to get at. The only way that the debt can be wiped out is if the taxpayer picks up the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 604639,
      "EditedText": "Not as far as we are concerned, no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 604644,
      "EditedText": "Finally, I detect that you do not regard the private landlords—privatisation or private investment—as the answer. Laughter. I suspect that that is your view. Is it necessarily a bad thing that people make money out of properties if they are improving the housing lot of the people whose present housing conditions are, in many cases, totally unsatisfactory?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 604645,
      "EditedText": "The answer to that is simple. There will be a green paper on housing benefit. The fact that there will also be a cut in housing benefit means that pensioners and people on income support will be forced to use their core income from social security to pay for increased rent charges. The landlords will make a profit, and tenants will pay through the nose for higher rents. There will be more evictions and fewer secure tenancies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 604646,
      "EditedText": "I would like to stick with the housing association issue, Sean, as you have made some black and white comments about that aspect.First, I address the point that you made a moment ago, about the input of more funding from the private sector. Is it not the case that, for many housing associations, the initial rehabilitation programmes have substantially been completed,  that the public funds that went into those are no longer necessary and that there are further demands on the funding?Secondly, you made an issue of the potential mergers of housing associations. What is your basis for making an issue of those? Will the situation be altered by the Scottish Executive's and Parliament's decisions on the nature of the single social tenancy? In other words, if a secure tenancy arrangement came through as a result of that concept, would that alter the position that you take?Thirdly, would you accept that there has been a substantial difference, over the years, between housing associations in Scotland, which have tended to be more community-based, and housing associations in England, which have been larger and less connected to the community? Would the result of that be that we should concentrate on keeping the community base of housing associations, making that work more effectively and using it as a vehicle for building on tenant experience, participation and control arrangements that are already in place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Macinnes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 604649,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sean Clerkin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 604654,
      "EditedText": "The housing partnership money is being used for the demolitions. Stock transfer must be supported to get new housing partnership money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604655",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Macinnes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 604655,
      "EditedText": "Where is the social justice and social inclusion in your saying that you will create new urban villages and wonderful new communities in the way that you are describing if, in the process, you destroy existing communities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 604656,
      "EditedText": "My central question concerns the appropriateness of using housing associations, given their track record, to act as the vehicle for doing those things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 604658,
      "EditedText": "Thanks very much. I am terribly sorry that we do not have more time. Several members would like to question you more thoroughly, but we have other tenants organisation to speak to this morning. Thank you very much for your evidence. If you have other evidence to submit to the committee, you should feel free to do so. We are receiving a lot of written evidence. If, another time, you would like to follow up any of the points that were addressed today, or which you feel have not been covered, you should feel free to do that. I am sure that you will keep an eye on our proceedings as we continue this inquiry.I apologise to members who were unable to ask questions. They will have priority now, as we move on to the next section of evidence. I will let Sean and Ian collect their papers. I welcome John Carracher and Jenni Marrow from the Scottish Tenants Organisation. You have a couple of minutes to catch your breath, settle and have something to drink.Thanks very much, folks. You probably have a flavour of the proceedings so far. I formally welcome you and your organisation to the committee. We are pleased to hear your evidence and have a discussion with you today. You may give us a brief introduction, before we enter into dialogue with you. That is our style, as we think that that is helpful. I hand over to John and Jenni."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 604660,
      "EditedText": "I will ask Jenni Marrow if she wants to say anything, before I move on to questions."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 604664,
      "EditedText": "Do you have difficulties with community associations—housing associations—in principle?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 604672,
      "EditedText": "The other problem, again relating to social inclusion, is that people such as young couples will end up staying with their families. That leads to a break-up of family life. The consequences of the dislocation of communities can be quite horrendous, but the social costs are never written down and quantified. One of the worrying factors is that people's lives are being played with without bearing responsibility for the consequences."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 604677,
      "EditedText": "The issue about rent is, to some extent, a bit of a red herring. Local authorities have been starved of cash for a long time, and the only way in which they could get money was to put up rents. Housing associations have received grants from Scottish Homes, which means that we are not dealing with a level playing field. One area of housing provision has been heavily subsidised and  the other has had its subsidy eroded, so it is misleading to talk about the inequality between housing association rents and council rents.What was your other point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 604679,
      "EditedText": "That would not deal with people's inability to pay higher rents. The majority of evictions are for rent arrears—that is true in the council sector and the housing association sector. Some of the arrears are due to problems with housing benefit. People who are disadvantaged often suffer from other problems as well, including the fact that they have poor reading and writing skills. Because of that, some people do not understand the process of claiming housing benefit. Somebody should be aware that there is an important  hidden problem with literacy.A secure tenancy gives tenants protection when dealing with a situation involving accusations of antisocial behaviour or rent arrears. It is important that people, particularly those who are not literate or articulate, can get someone to argue their case in court to prevent eviction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Carracher: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 604682,
      "EditedText": "My point about the ideology was to do with the idea that the public sector is bad and that the private sector is good, a philosophy that has been promoted during the past couple of decades. An illusion has been created that housing associations are wonderful bodies that have no problems and that, because a few local authorities have bad housing, all public sector housing is bad. That is not the case: there are many examples of good public sector housing across the country.There have been relentless attempts to damage the public sector. Tenants are not clamouring to change tenure or leave the public sector; the process is being driven from elsewhere. Funding has been eroded and councils have not been able to refurbish their housing stock in the way that they should do and, indeed, have a legal duty to do.The Government should not sit back and watch councils and tenants flounder under those conditions. I think that that is disgusting. Tenants will be asked to vote on whether they want their houses repaired, but no one should have to vote on that; it should simply be funded and done. Scottish Homes went through a largely discredited process that created fear and anxiety in the community. I have seen old people crying at meetings because they were scared about what was going to happen. Scottish Homes capitalised on such anxiety. The organisations would be described as tenant-led, but the meetings would be organised, chaired and run by Scottish Homes. There would be a propaganda exercise to spread the idea that the organisation was tenant-led. I hope that councils do not start similar propaganda campaigns, as that is not the function of councils.The forums are not tenants organisations; they are set up by local authorities. They should deal face to face with the tenants who have organised themselves and have not been channelled by someone else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 604684,
      "EditedText": "We have asked for a seat on the advisory board that is dealing with new housing partnerships because we want to do a credibility check. If a council says that it has consulted tenants, we want to be able to consult our tenants association members, to allow us to say whether that is true.Needless to say, we have been refused a place on that advisory board because we will not say that we whole-heartedly support stock transfer. How is that for rigging the agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Carracher: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 604688,
      "EditedText": "Not necessarily. I live in fairly good public sector housing and I am quite happy with the house that I am in. Just because there are some places that have been badly managed does not mean that we should transfer the country's entire housing stock. We must consider the problems of withdrawal of funding, which mean that councils are not able to do the job that they are supposed to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 604689,
      "EditedText": "You seem to be taking a particular viewpoint—as Jenni Marrow said to Karen Whitefield—that the housing associations are subsidised and the local authorities are cash starved. I am not saying that that viewpoint is as ideologically driven as the previous set of evidence, but you are anti-housing association and you seem to suggest that the local authorities should get on with the job. You are not producing hard, factual evidence for that position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 604698,
      "EditedText": "Cambridge Policy Consultants, working for the Scottish Executive, made exactly that point. Housing is a crucial part of people's lives, but estate regeneration is not just about housing—it is about economic development and making money available to tackle poverty and poor health. That goes back to central Government and benefit levels. Could any of you live on £52 per week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
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      "EditedText": "Let us be realistic. Wendy Alexander was asked whether money would be found to write off Glasgow's housing debt if the tenants voted no; she said quite clearly that the money would not be found. What kind of choice is that? You say that we are saying that the public sector is good, but that is not the case. We are saying that there are reasons for some parts of the public sector not performing as well as they should.During the late 1970s and early 1980s, there was a steady campaign of stereotyping council estates as areas inhabited by people who had no hope, who had not worked for at least 20 years and who were sponging off the welfare state, where there were cars in bits in the front gardens and dogs running wild. A clear campaign of character assassination was cynically undertaken by the Thatcher Government, with the intention of breaking up what she saw as fiefdoms of municipality. There is no doubt about that.Thatcher had a two-pronged attack: she destroyed the image of council housing and upset many decent, honest, hard-working people, who tried to keep their homes as nice as possible. She did not attack the builders who were financing the Tory party and who were responsible for some of the slums that we live with now. She accepted their cash and defended them.Local authorities have been trying to do their best under extremely difficult and trying circumstances, and we do not think that they should be blamed for the state of our housing—that is a matter of central Government policy.I was in discussions with people such as Raymond Robertson and Malcolm Rifkind. Their push towards stock transfer was not as aggressive and hardline as that of the present Government. At least we could have a dialogue with Calum Macdonald. We have written to Wendy Alexander four times to ask for a meeting to explain our position and she has not given us that opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 604693,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is. If you do not learn the lessons of the past, you are doomed to repeat them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 604695,
      "EditedText": "I would rather look forward. I accept much of what you have said about the failure of the urban regeneration programmes. I was looking at the figures on that last night, because this afternoon we have a debate on social inclusion targets. I want to widen the debate. The approach to dealing with those estates should focus not just on housing, but on a whole range of issues, such as employment, education, health, community facilities and the role of the voluntary sector. We need such joined-up thinking. We can consider the housing problems in isolation, but we cannot resolve them unless we consider all the other aspects. There is a need for an integrated approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 604697,
      "EditedText": "But it is an important point—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 604699,
      "EditedText": "The answer to that is no.You make a good point. To tell tenants that they can have any solution that they want to the housing crisis as long as it is stock transfer cannot be described as community empowerment or choice.You mentioned the implications of housing benefit changes for tenants with payment difficulties that might lead to eviction. If there are changes to housing benefit, is it not much more likely that those changes will be to restrict the cost of housing benefit and therefore to reduce access to housing benefit for tenants? Does not that undermine the whole basis of stock transfer? The private lenders want to know that the rental stream for the next 30 to 40 years is guaranteed. The possibility that tenants on housing benefit will not be able to pay the rent because of changes to the benefits will be a much bigger threat to the idea of stock transfer than stock transfer will be to the tenants.I want to go back to the point about destabilising communities. I was reading in The Herald this morning about the post-war baby boom—of which I was a part—that has led to people in the 45-plus age group having a lot of money to spend on housing. Private housing in Edinburgh has gone to the absolute limit and people are looking to Glasgow; affluent, luxury housing will be built along the banks of the Clyde. Is that a factor in the drive towards stock transfer and the use of vacant land owned by Glasgow City Council, to attract richer and more affluent people to the city, breaking up existing communities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604700",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 604700,
      "EditedText": "That is absolutely right. There is a need for land and demolition is the cheapest option. You are the committee that deals with social inclusion and, as Sean Clerkin said earlier, you should be concerned about the displacement of communities. Ties and networks that have been built up over generations are disrupted. People gain support from one another. People with very low incomes can alleviate the worst effects of deprivation and poverty by working together and supporting one another. In my area, the ingenuity that people have in finding ways in which to deal with situations is amazing. We cannot afford to come uptown for the Hogmanay celebrations, so we make our own local celebrations. Stock transfer will result in the displacement of that community identity.Stock transfer is about private, not public, gain. If it would benefit the public purse, tenants could get together with local authorities to devise a strategy for the benefit of everyone. However, tenants feel seriously disadvantaged in the current debate.I welcome John McAllion's comments about housing benefit. If that were seriously on the horizon, I would be pleased that a decrease in access to housing benefit would cause people to stop and think. It will certainly cause the lenders to stop and think, but I am not sure whether it will cause the Scottish Executive to stop and think. The Government is so ideologically driven—any group of politicians that can allow the conflict of interest—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 604701,
      "EditedText": "You must come to a conclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jenni Marrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 604704,
      "EditedText": "I must apologise for being late this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 604705,
      "EditedText": "That is quite all right.I invite George McKie from the Edinburgh Tenants Association to give evidence. You can see that members are desperate to ask questions. If you do a brief introduction, we will continue the questioning, if that is all right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 604709,
      "EditedText": "In Edinburgh we have been fortunate in that over a number of years, through having an active tenants federation that worked in alliance with the council, a substantive tenant participation policy has been developed, which acts positively in many areas.I shall take your last point first. Where tenants face stock transfer, they have open access to independent advice from advisers of their choosing, which is paid for by the city council.There are concerns over the small-scale stock transfers that are being proposed in Edinburgh, in the new housing partnership areas. We are concerned about the money that is available to improve poor-quality housing and regenerate those, mainly small, areas of Edinburgh. We did not anticipate—although we should have—that the money would have chains attached to it: the money is available only if tenants agree to transfer to alternative landlords.We believe, perhaps naively, that if money exists to improve those areas, as we are told it does, it should be made available. If, subsequently, tenants desire to change to an alternative landlord because they feel that the local authority is an incompetent landlord or is not fulfilling their needs adequately, fair enough, let them transfer, and let them do so with the best possible information and advice, so that they make an informed decision. It is hypocritical and corrupt to offer money to tenants and say, \"This money is to improve your area, but you must adopt a new landlord.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 604718,
      "EditedText": "Is not the key point the quality of the arrangements for tenant participation?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 604721,
      "EditedText": "Certainly."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C604723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 604723,
      "EditedText": "That could be done but, as far as I am aware, we have not done it yet."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604726",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 604726,
      "EditedText": "A moratorium is urgently needed until the whole issue has been examined. We need to consider the financial structure, the motivation behind the move, how tenants can be involved in the process from start to finish and the value of retaining public sector housing. We believe that public sector housing should be retained and that it has proven value. We have serious concerns about our future—our homes, our families and our lives are at stake. We have serious questions—all that we want is the opportunity to ask them fully and at the highest possible level. The process is being driven forward on shorter and shorter time scales, denying the tenants who are directly affected any kind of democratic involvement."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604727",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 604727,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful to have what might be called a council sector option, which ensured the same debt treatment if housing stayed with the council and which redefined the Treasury's definition of what constituted public borrowing—giving subsidies on bricks and mortar, rather than for individuals. We need a list of demands validating the council sector option, which could then be compared with the stock transfer option."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George McKie: ",
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      "ContributionID": 604730,
      "EditedText": "Democracy is nevertheless a very valuable process. Some governmental structures could do with lessons in it."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604733",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 604733,
      "EditedText": "We will now hear evidence from Isobel Dunsmuir and Alan Benson of Glasgow and West of Scotland Forum of Housing Associations and the Scottish Community Ownership Housing Forum. I am sure that you have listened carefully to our deliberations. You probably know what we will ask you—a lot of it can be second-guessed. I will allow you to catch your breath. Thank you for coming along. We are interested in your evidence. You know the routine. I apologise, but we are running over, so please give a brief introduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2975908+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 604737,
      "EditedText": "Do you take a more favourable view of the secondary transfer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 604740,
      "EditedText": "We have always asked when the decision was made for a single stock transfer, to which we have never subscribed. We wonder what tenants would be asked to vote on in the ballot. Are they balloting on the principle of stock transfer or are they balloting on the local neighbourhood strategies that the council is working on? That is causing a great deal of confusion. That fundamental issue must be addressed. Reference was made to the neighbourhood forums that have been set up. The housing association movement met Councillor Charlie Gordon in the middle of August. We were advised to get involved in the neighbourhood forums, but so far we have not been able to, despite the fact that our local councillor has encouraged us to do so. There are difficulties in establishing what we are aiming for and what the tenants will be asked to vote on. Until those issues are resolved, the matter is likely to remain confused.I do not know whether such things will be covered in Wendy Alexander's framework document. John Breslin and Professor MacLennan told us that that would be a month away, but we still have not seen it—it has not been produced. If it answers some of those questions, we may be in a better position to know where we can go to from here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 604742,
      "EditedText": "Fundamentally, the potential is determined by what the tenants want. Words such as \"predatory\" were used earlier, and one of the buzz phrases in Glasgow at the moment is \"cherry picking\"—people say that housing associations have a tradition of cherry picking the best areas. I live in the convener's constituency; even if we racked our brains, I do not think that we could come up with many cherries in Easterhouse.The housing association movement and co-operative movement in Glasgow want people to come and talk to us. Housing associations with established structures and the resources—by that I mean positive balance sheets and so on—could become involved in transfers in which local authority stock is mixed with theirs. The potential obviously exists—it has already been realised in some associations and co-ops in Glasgow. I do not want to put a number on the overall potential, because I think that we should adopt a bottom-up approach. The emphasis should be on tenants in particular areas saying that they think that the housing association or the co-operative is a reasonable option for them; the emphasis should not be on forcing them into that way of thinking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 604743,
      "EditedText": "I understand that you do not want to put numbers on that, but—assuming that the tenants are willing—do you think that the housing associations are in a position to double or even treble their numbers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 604745,
      "EditedText": "You are saying that there are different views in different areas, according to the traditions. Are you suggesting that it would take time to build up the necessary experience and training to get things off the ground if there is not an existing housing association or co-operative?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Isobel Dunsmuir (Glasgow and West of Scotland Forum of Housing Associations): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 604746,
      "EditedText": "My association was set up more than 12 years ago and we have been officially registered for 10 years. It took two years to train committee members. Our committee is fully in control, and all our committee members—including me—are tenants of the association. That all took between 18 months and two years to set up—18 months till we went to a ballot and a further six months for training. We run the organisation and we are responsible for all areas.I do not know whether any of you know about the fire in Glasgow yesterday. A store was completely gutted in the heart of our community, but our tenants are saying that it is all right because the housing association will deal with it. We are the heart and soul of the community and that is the way in which the tenants look at us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 604752,
      "EditedText": "Our minority report pointed out that the city's vacant land use strategy had not been considered. The council probably owns quite a lot of the land anyway and is moving towards the creation of some new neighbourhoods, as members will be aware.In defence of the council, something had to happen, because the status quo was not acceptable. The housing department and the councillors have made a genuine attempt to do something about the appalling housing conditions. Their driving force was to get the Government to tackle the issue of residual debt, and one can see where they were coming from. The bottom line is that the issue will not be resolved without adequate resources. The council's current rental stream, even if it were transferred to a trust, would not be sufficient either. New money must be found to make it work, and we have not even mentioned housing benefit yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 604753,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that anyone would disagree with you about the need for additional resources, but the important issue is where those resources will come from and what price will have to be paid for them. The reason for the resource problem is that public sector investment in housing, outwith housing benefit, has been cut by 50 per cent in recent years. Some of us would argue that the obvious thing to do is to reinstate that 50 per cent cut. The money is there to do it, and it would go a long way to solving a good chunk of the problem.I have two questions. One concerns the nature of housing associations. Alan Benson's association has been up and running for 25 years and Isobel Dunsmuir's for about 10 years. The main sources of funding for housing associations are rental income and public sector subsidy. Sean Clerkin said that the fundamental relationship between the housing association and the body from which it receives its money will change if the main or sole investors become private financiers who have to make a guaranteed level of return to their shareholders. If the relationship with the housing association is not within the public sector, but is a private relationship with banks and financial institutions in London and elsewhere, is there a danger that that may change the fundamental principles on which housing associations like yours are based?My second question concerns the Glasgow stock transfer process. I think that you agree that there is a lack of participation and transparency. Do you also agree with the other three sets of witnesses whom we have heard this morning that there should be a moratorium on the process so that it can be handled in a democratic, participatory, open, accountable and transparent manner? Doing everything behind closed doors not only creates confusion and suspicion; it also creates fear among the tenants about the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 604754,
      "EditedText": "If the stock is transferred to another organisation and the historic debt is written off, that is obviously an asset upon which that organisation can borrow. Our experience of private borrowing is that it tends to be whatever the base rate is plus about half a percentage point. In the early days it was one percentage point, but we have got better at driving bargains with the lenders. If there is no residual debt, there is an asset, and the rate of borrowing would not be unduly prohibitive.The difficulty concerns the level of borrowing that can be sustained from the rental stream. Even with the high rents that Glasgow has at the moment—and the council's own calculations indicate that £1.3 billion will be spent over a six to 10-year period—we are concerned that that will not lead to the council's objective of rent stability. If that works out, as we have crudely calculated, at £17,000 a house, it will still not be enough to bring the entire stock up to a reasonable standard.The rates of borrowing will not be unduly prohibitive, so long as one retains control of the rental stream. If one makes daft decisions and borrows so much money that one ends up in the position in which the council now finds itself, with 55p in every pound going towards servicing debt, that would be a key factor. However, our experience is that we do not need to borrow to that level to carry out the work that we want to do at the moment, having ownership of the assets as we do.In answer to the second question, something must be done fairly quickly, whether it is a moratorium or something else. I restate our plea for the whole stock transfer issue to be considered strategically. A national framework must be established that can be developed into local strategies. Those local strategies will not just be single-issue housing strategies. If we are serious about social inclusion, we must link housing in with everything else.If the whole process stopped for six months or a year, it would probably be bad news for 70,000 tenant households in Glasgow, because something drastic needs to be done. However, if the minister's framework document can get things rolling, and if people are clear about their objectives, tenants will benefit. To stop the process at the moment would not be particularly helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 604757,
      "EditedText": "There has been much discussion this morning about community empowerment being a sham. From your experience, what are the essentials for empowering communities? This is not a time for words. We should be delivering vibrant, healthy, growing communities and enabling them to maintain that growth.Furthermore, it has been suggested that housing associations do not always carry out repairs. The housing associations in North Lanarkshire are as good as the council in carrying out repairs. However, they are less concerned about maintaining running repairs than about the debt that they might be left with if tenants exercise the right to buy after the associations have undertaken much larger renovations. Can you comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Benson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 604758,
      "EditedText": "On the issue of community empowerment, the model in Glasgow—and in Scotland in general—provides genuine empowerment. Local committees are made up of tenants who receive services and can determine their own priorities. However, the issue is not just about housing. At the moment, a considerable part of my job is concerned with community development and with setting up structures to provide community facilities such as turning commercial premises beneath tenements into internet cafes.West Whitlawburn received a large lottery grant to create such community facilities. Furthermore, housing associations in the east end of Glasgow have come together with the East End Partnership to create apprenticeships for young school leavers with contractors who work on repairing our houses. Those examples of community empowerment include having the ability to assess events and priorities as a housing organisation.As for repairs, most housing associations and co-ops should provide a reasonable repair service. However, the question is whether they can upgrade stock after time. As older associations had the benefit of quite high subsidies to renovate property, they should be responsible for managing and sustaining that investment for the longer term. Obviously, those associations have built up reserves to accommodate future upgrades.In our case, we had equity in the housing stock which allowed managed borrowing for upgrades. It has been suggested that, if a single social tenancy were created, the right to buy might be conferred on all tenants. We think that that is bad news, because we can hardly run our organisation professionally, if that is the right word, if our asset base is constantly at risk. We might want to pursue that issue with the minister over the next few months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Isobel Dunsmuir: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 604759,
      "EditedText": "Speaking as someone who still has the preserved right to buy, I want to do away with the option altogether. Buying a house takes it out of the rented sector, which means that fewer houses are available for tenancies.As for community control, I like where I live because tenants are on a first-name basis with association staff and committee members; and when the staff go home, the committee is still there, fulfilling its responsibility to the community. The committee sometimes knows about problems before the staff of the association. We have close meetings and tenants meetings and cover umpteen areas of activity. As Alan pointed out, our resource centre is open to every tenant in the estate and in four other local areas. Every tenant knows the staff of the housing co-operative and of housing management co-operatives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 604765,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with any of Fiona's comments. However, as someone involved for years in the tenants movement, I was quite shocked by John Carracher's evidence that tenants are being driven by the process, instead of the other way round. Although that has not been the experience in my area, we still have to get to the bottom of that issue. I believe in the notion of community ownership, but it can only work if tenants are involved from the word go. There is no point in going ahead with a scheme if something that people believe should be happening is not.We also have to make tenants aware of the facts. Scaremongering is the last thing that tenants worried about landlords and the future of their tenancies need. One of the witnesses said that he or she had been to meetings where people have been crying because of such tactics. I have been to similar meetings. Although politicians can just put such language down to the winter campaign, it can make an old person worry about the roof over his or her head. With this morning's evidence, the committee should be able to get the facts across."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 604774,
      "EditedText": "Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 604776,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee first agree to investigate the principle of an adviser? We will consider whom to invite later.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 604778,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Some stock transfers have been very successful. I recommend that the committee reflect on those ideas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 604779,
      "EditedText": "Council workers may appreciate being invited to give evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.3132179+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 604708,
      "EditedText": "As a fellow east-coaster, I feel that the point that was made about urban clearances was interesting. People still travel to Leith from Wester Hailes to shop, 20 years after they moved away. Community is vital.It is interesting that the Government is planning to transfer more homes in two years than Conservative Governments did in 18 years. The pace and scale are greater. Some of the transfers are wholesale, for example, in Glasgow and Dumfries and Galloway, but some arise from a trickle-down approach, such as is happening in Edinburgh. Could you comment on the differences in approach? I am also interested in your view on the amount of information to which tenants have access, and on how easy it has been for tenants to get, for example, independent housing advice. Do you feel that the system is robust enough to allow tenants to make informed choices?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3357
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 18310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 604761,
      "EditedText": "We have received an extremely informative perspective on the whole debate, as so much previous evidence has hinged on the issue of finance. If community ownership is about genuine tenant involvement, alarm bells should be ringing. We have heard specifically about Glasgow, but we had also hoped to find out about Aberdeenshire and Dumfries and Galloway. The scheme is quite advanced in those areas and it is imperative for the committee to know what is happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.3030692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 24 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12946,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12946,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 479120,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:01"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 479132,
      "EditedText": "What is the status of the paper? If it is the author's view, that is fine; however, if it is some kind of holy writ for which we will be held to account at the last judgment, perhaps we should take a different view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 479136,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to be too indulgent, convener, as you have been very fair. However, paragraph 3 of the paper, on the terms of reference, says:\"The terms of reference of the Inquiry were agreed by the committee at its 7th meeting. The key issue to be explored by the Inquiry was balance of the burden of business rates between small and large businesses. The key objective was to provide an early opportunity for the arguments in favour of, and against any changes in the system to be aired and scrutinised, prior to the revaluation.\"At our previous meeting, Patrick Browne from the Scottish Retail Consortium said:\"The figures suggest that rates are a more significant cost to a small to medium retailer than they are to other types of business.\" Later on, Mike Flecknoe of the same organisation said:\"We agree that business rates could well form a larger percentage of costs for small businesses than they do for large businesses\".—Official Report, Local Government Committee, 10 November 1999; c 277-78I think that those statements implicitly address Michael McMahon's point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 479139,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to change the options for consideration or the recommendation? We should remember that this is a briefing paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 479143,
      "EditedText": "Bristow?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 479151,
      "EditedText": "I support Fergus Ewing's point and will add to it. The revaluation is a mechanical process, which happens every five years. The Executive has stated that the take from the revaluation will be the same as the take before it, plus inflation. The figures will be the same; it is just that the burden will be shared out differently. There will be winners and losers. Inherent in every revaluation that has taken place is the imbalance between big business and small business. The evidence is clear that there is an impact on small businesses. Like Fergus, I think that as we all know that there is a problem, there is no benefit in delaying an examination of it. Somewhat differently from Fergus, I believe that, if we do not produce a report saying that the Executive needs to address the problem, this revaluation will take place, we will be into the next revaluation and then the next one and the problem will still exist. We have identified a problem and now is the time to say to the Executive that something should be done about it quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C479152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 479152,
      "EditedText": "On a point of information, convener. Can I take it that, when you said that an adviser should be appointed, you were not suggesting that an adviser should be appointed after the revaluation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C479154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 479154,
      "EditedText": "In other words, we can get on with it now. There is not a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 479156,
      "EditedText": "We should submit a report saying that there must be a transitional relief scheme and another scheme to help small businesses. The idea of asking the Executive whether it would do something about this is quite elegant. If it does not, we can continue to work on the issue. The difficulty is that I am sure that any member of this committee could produce a nice scheme for helping small businesses with their rates. The downside is that the Executive then has to find the £10 million or £20 million, or whatever the sum is, which would leave a hole. The money must come from either bigger businesses or the public purse. That is an issue for the Executive, which is a good argument for handing the matter to it, making it clear that we believe that there should be such a scheme.If everyone knows that an attempt to reduce the rates burden on small businesses and find the money from elsewhere is on the table, they will not be as upset as they might be that Marks & Sparks or Scottish Life have to pay more rates than they do at the moment. We should make it clear that there should be transitional relief and produce an interim report setting out the arguments advanced so far. We should tell the Executive that we are keen that it should do something to reduce the burden on small businesses and that, if it does not do that, we will examine the issue again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 479158,
      "EditedText": "My view is, to a large extent, the same as has been expressed by Sylvia Jackson, Keith Harding and Donald Gorrie. The interim report is crucial. We must set out our stall. Donald is right to say that we must make it clear that we support transitional relief. We must also make it clear that we are considering what would be the best mechanism for lifting some of the burden from small businesses.I do not agree with Sylvia and Keith about whether it is possible to deal with this matter in the next two or three months. I am not convinced that we could not do that. I am a great believer in the big bang theory. It might be a lot better to put this together and do it as one exercise rather than say that we will leave it to another date, which, as Fergus Ewing said, could be 2005. I would have to be convinced that there is no possibility of our doing this before March. I am convinced that we can do it. We must set out our stall clearly and have a precise timetable, regardless of whether we decide to examine the issue before or after the revaluation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 479159,
      "EditedText": "When you say \"we\", are you talking about a royal we or do you mean the Executive—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 479161,
      "EditedText": "Just to ensure that I have this right, are you suggesting that the final report should be done before March?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 479168,
      "EditedText": "People are getting confused. It goes without saying that there was no agreement on any particular scheme, but there was agreement that there is a problem. An interim report would square the circle and I suggest that, after producing that report, we invite Jack McConnell to the meeting to give evidence. If there is someone else from the Executive who should give us evidence, fine. If anyone in the Executive were interested in small business, they would want to give evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 479169,
      "EditedText": "We are always cautious about not taking action, but we should be equally cautious about taking action for the sake of it, just to be seen to be doing something. The summary of our deliberations is in the minutes. The balance of positions, which is clear, and the different things that have emerged, can be extracted from them—the fact that we believe that transitional relief is necessary and that there is no happy definition of what a small business is. I was quite happy with the idea that we pull together those basic points—the fact that there is an issue about costs for small businesses being disproportionate. However, the suggestion now seems to be that the interim report will be more substantial and will have more authority than that. That would take us further than we have gone in our discussions. The unease is being caused by the fact that we do not know whether this is an interim report. I am happy for us to say that there should be transitional relief and that we have taken evidence that clearly identifies that there is a disproportionate burden on small businesses, but that there is a difficulty with the definition of a small business, which needs further exploration. I am also happy to say that we are keen for the Scottish Executive to pursue transitional relief and work with this committee and others to ensure that revaluation is as painless as possible. I am even happy for us to say that we will come back to the issue at some stage, so that it does not just disappear to be revisited in five or 10 years' time by whoever is still standing on the Local Government Committee. That would not be right either. We need to put some timetable on it. It would help if we had an adviser working on the matter in the meantime, who could begin to pull things together. I do not want to revisit old ground in three months' time, but nor am I keen to drive this beyond what I thought the committee had generally agreed on. That is what we would be moving towards if we did as Kenny Gibson and Fergus Ewing said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 479172,
      "EditedText": "What do we want to say in an interim report? What is its purpose? Would we say that business cannot agree on what it wants to happen, that the committee cannot agree on what it wants to happen, but that we would like the Executive to do something and so we are producing an interim report? I see no value in doing that. I agree with Jamie that if we take on an adviser—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 479178,
      "EditedText": "We can hear one more point from Fergus and then we must sum up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 479182,
      "EditedText": "As I attempt to sum up this matter, I know why I hesitated before agreeing to chair this committee. Let us start with the positives. There is consensus on support for a transitional relief scheme. We recognise the need for a review of small business rates and there is no doubt that we see the current scheme as unfair. I agree with Sylvia Jackson's comments; I am not sure we could implement a brand new scheme by March or April of next year.We have to be clear about what an interim report is. It is a report that is issued halfway through a decision-making process, in which we indicate how far we think we have come and that we are keen for the Executive to pursue the matter in question. I am not absolutely sure of the status of the report, but Sylvia is right to say that we have not reached a final decision on which kind of scheme we think is best. If we appointed an adviser, they would examine the technical aspects of the issue, read all the information and report back to us on what, in their opinion, was being said. The adviser could help with an interim report and with the Executive's response, so they could be with us for some time.We have a heavy programme, which we will consider later in the meeting, and there are some other matters that we have to attend to. The ethical standards in public life bill has to be dealt with before Christmas, and we will be into the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill immediately after the recess. We are not the lead committee on that bill, but we are holding up its passage because we will not consider it until January. I must take responsibility for moving that forward.I suggest that in the first instance we appoint an adviser. Are there any objections? There are no objections. I also suggest that we combine recommendations 3 and 4 and that we produce an interim report for the Executive, indicating the stage at which we have arrived. I know that some of you are not happy with that, but if we appoint an adviser and combine recommendations 3 and 4, we will at least be laying down a marker.However, I do not think that the Executive will be able to come up with a new scheme as quickly as has been suggested, and perhaps it should not. Members will have read the Official Report and will know what the difficulties are. It may, therefore, be sensible to take our time so that we get things right. Do members understand what I am suggesting? Once the adviser has been appointed, the clerk and I will investigate how quickly an interim report can be produced. It would, of course, come before the committee before zipping up to the Executive. Kenny, you look unhappy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 479187,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. The forum seemed to think that its scheme could be implemented fairly soon. We need clarification on whether it would be practical to do that before March, as that is the key to whether we take it forward. We should seek further advice before saying that we cannot. If that is the case, why have we spent so long considering this issue now when we could have done it two or three months earlier? That would have given us the time that we require."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 479195,
      "EditedText": "No. I do not want you to read me the wording. We have not written an interim report. We will get an adviser, I hope, who will examine the possibility. That will be a recommendation from this committee, as all members are agreed that the matter needs to be addressed. How it is addressed is what we are considering."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 479189,
      "EditedText": "We seem to have moved all of a sudden from recognising that there are complexities and difficulties to being obdurate and not wanting to move forward. There was consensus that the issue is complex. Even defining what a small business is is complex. I am not trying to obstruct movement. I am more than happy that there has been movement. This committee wants there to be movement. I would be concerned and, although I do not have much experience of it, I am sure that small businesses would be concerned, if we rushed towards change on the basis that we want to be seen to be making a change.The Scottish Executive drove through a new process without consulting in the way that we have done, when there were clear difficulties between groups. The Executive is talking about a significant change to the rating system, yet it will not consult and ensure that that there is consensus in the business community. We ought to move as quickly as is practical. I am not always the most practical of politicians—I am told that we ought to be—but in this instance people who work in business want practical solutions to their problems. They do not want a theoretical commitment. The matter should be moved forward.We should take seriously what we have heard in evidence: the matter is complex. We should appoint an adviser, set a timetable and monitor it carefully so that we do not come here in three month's time and rehearse the same arguments. There would be grounds for suspicion if in four or five months we said, \"Oh well, it is still very difficult and there are practicalities to be dealt with and we cannot push matters too quickly.\"We have to set a timetable and try to stick to it, but we should also be honest and recognise that what we have heard on the subject is complex and that no easy consensus will emerge. We should ask the Executive to produce a scheme that meets the approval of the business community."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 479190,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to vote for the scheme put forward by the Forum of Private Business full stop, but committees should progress by agreement and consensus and perhaps other people do not share my views about that scheme.There is some confusion. The FPB scheme has no impact on the revaluation. The revaluation goes ahead, and each building has its value determined. Everyone is clear about that. The scheme has some impact on how much people pay. There is an issue about how it can best be administered, but any scheme must proceed with proper consultation. Our adviser could be asked to report on the mechanics of putting into effect the FPB scheme, the problems that there might be with it and so on, and—as has been suggested—we could ask the Executive about the time scale of putting into effect a scheme for reducing the penalty of rates on small businesses.We should keep pushing forward. It may be that we cannot produce a scheme by March, but we are an intensely conservative country—with a small \"c\"—and I agree with those who feel that if you do not push like hell you do not get anything done. We require a long, steady push rather than one quick heave, but we have to keep pushing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 479193,
      "EditedText": "I am going back to what I suggested. I have given you as much time as I think that you needed for it. There is more agreement than disagreement in the committee; that was the feeling with which I left the last meeting. I will not leave today's meeting feeling differently. However, there may be difficulties concerning the way in which we move it forward.I suggest that we appoint an adviser and that we combine the second and third options—the third option says that we combine those—and have an interim report. The status of that report should be remembered: it is not our final deliberations, but an interim report that lays down a marker to say that we are aware of what is happening, that we need a timetable and that we can set out our own timetable for discussing it. When we come to consider the timetable later on, there will be some changes to it. We can say to the Executive that we are concerned about the matter and that we are taking more advice. However, this is an interim report.I hope that the final report will come to an obvious conclusion. I am sure that it will. It is moving the issue forward. It is not letting it float away. I would not let it float away anyway. There will be a timetable to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 479196,
      "EditedText": "I am quite happy to agree to the proposal if you feel that an interim report would be of some benefit. However, you have already heard some of the reasons why I did not want to have such a report. As soon as we agree that there will be an interim report, you want it timetabled and want something else added. Then we start to argue about what will go into that interim report. What value is there in doing that? Why not wait until we have all the facts? We have not spoken to the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities or to much of industry that has an interest in this, but we are talking about having an interim report. As soon as we agree to have an interim report, we will talk about what goes into it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 479198,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we ask the Scottish Executive to advise on the practicalities of implementing an alteration to the scheme before March. There has been a lot of discussion about whether we can do things before 31 March, which is four months away."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 479199,
      "EditedText": "I am prepared to write to the minister to ask him that. Are you happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 479200,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 479202,
      "EditedText": "Kenny Gibson is not asking for that. We will encapsulate in the letter that we are so concerned about the issue that we are appointing an adviser. We will combine the two options. Let us move on. The subject has been given a good airing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 479209,
      "EditedText": "The paper suggests that we will need an all-day meeting on this. Is that necessary, given that we will only hear from four organisations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 479212,
      "EditedText": "I cannot remember why."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 479216,
      "EditedText": "It is a group that is funded by Glasgow City Council to consider poverty in the city. It is a long-standing group that provides much information about debt management and so on.Do we want to do all that in one session?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 479218,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 479222,
      "EditedText": "That was just because Unison is the biggest union."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 479223,
      "EditedText": "They are not the only one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 479227,
      "EditedText": "There is a trade union of health board boss people that might help. The quango issue is important. There may be a similar organisation in relation to enterprise boards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 479228,
      "EditedText": "Enterprise boards are part of LECs and they are not included in the bill. That is a matter of company law."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 479237,
      "EditedText": "I take it that the minister will also be asked to come along to give evidence at some point. Would that be appropriate, for the purposes of clarification?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 479239,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 479241,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 479242,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 479243,
      "EditedText": "Members should all have a copy of the timetable for the committee forward plan and the annexe, which has to be changed slightly. We must consider the ethics and standards bill, and we will take evidence on that on 8 December. I had thought that I would be able to give the clerks some time to pull things together, but it looks as if they will be working on that at night and at the weekends.The meeting on 14 December has been scheduled for a committee debate on the ethics and standards bill, rather than the hearing of evidence, which will now take place in the week of 8 December. After taking the evidence we will have time to discuss it at the meeting on 14 December, and the latter part of that meeting will be about the reports on visits to councils other than the ones that we will hear today.We have to fit in the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill. Unfortunately, 12 January is a Wednesday, which means that we have to stop because we must be in the chamber in the afternoon. At the moment, we are not allowed to have a committee meeting while the Parliament is meeting. We may therefore have to split our consideration of that bill between the meeting on 12 January and the one on 18 January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 479245,
      "EditedText": "Kerley has been given an extra month for the report on the power of general competence, so that frees up 26 January for us. By that time, we should have organised an adviser on rateable values. The only other way to deal with matters would be to fit in extra meetings. Members will be aware that meetings can be held on a Monday afternoon, and we could do that if people want to.We would then come back to business ratings on 26 January and the advisers will, I hope, have a report by then. We can be up and running with that sooner rather than later. We should do that and tighten up arrangements as we get more information regarding advisers' visits. Is that acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 479249,
      "EditedText": "Do we have a space on 18 January?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 479258,
      "EditedText": "The European Committee is going to Brussels on 1 February. That might be a problem. I will not be able to attend a meeting on that date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 479262,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to reports on visits to councils. We will start with Bristow Muldoon's report on the visit to Glasgow City Council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 479273,
      "EditedText": "From what I can recollect, the sentence that you quoted is an incorrect record, and I raised that point with the clerks before this meeting. I think that it was a genuine error—I do not think that that is what Charlie Gordon said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 479279,
      "EditedText": "My impression from Charlie Gordon was that Pat Lally walked on water in Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 479282,
      "EditedText": "I have one or two other points, but I shall defer to you, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 479283,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in Kenny's comment, as it struck me that the two committee members who were able to attend the visit to Glasgow heard only one side of the story. We did not see any opposition members and, wherever I have been, the opposition has had an opinion. It seems to me that we should have heard that opinion, particularly in a city as large as Glasgow—even if it might have been difficult to find opposition members. I think that those members would have given their views if they had been given the opportunity. Perhaps we should consider that.In the first paragraph on question 1, Jimmy Andrews said that Jean MacFadden had written a paper. I would like to see that paper, and members should have a copy—we would send a copy out to members. If Jean has said clearly in a paper what local authorities could do if they were to have the power of general competence, I would be interested in it, because of what has happened on other visits."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 479284,
      "EditedText": "Charlie Gordon made it clear when he was speaking in a personal capacity. When he was speaking on behalf of Glasgow City Council, he stated that he was giving the official position—one arrived at through the policy-making process and following consultation. The officers who were present clarified on each occasion whether this or that was an agreed policy of the council or whether it was Councillor Gordon's personal view—that happened on only one or two occasions. While not ideal, that approach was made clear by council officers, who made up the bulk of the delegation. They said on a number of occasions that this or that was the policy as agreed through the democratic process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 479287,
      "EditedText": "There might be a different view, which would be worth commenting on, but it did not happen in this case—nor is it happening in other areas. Jean MacFadden's paper will give us an idea on the uses of the power of general competence. Next, Donald Gorrie and I visited Stirling Council. I am glad to say that Donald was the reporter for that meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 479290,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned challenge funding, convener. The Stirling report states: \"Stirling was not particularly in favour of the approach, which it felt ‘makes liars' out of councils.\"Was that expanded?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 479291,
      "EditedText": "I do not know about \"makes liars\". That is in quotation marks in the report—perhaps Eugene Windsor wrote it down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 479292,
      "EditedText": "That is the council's own quotation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 479294,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the electoral systems. The notes say that the Conservative group was against proportional representation—we are aware of that. The notes say that there was \"a range of views\", presumably from some of the other councillors present. Could we have some indication of the views of the Labour and Scottish National party representatives on electoral systems?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 479296,
      "EditedText": "Specifically, they said that they had used the single transferable vote for community councils, which had been a success. They registered the concerns of many people about lists of councillors. I felt that they were not hostile to the concept of PR."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 479299,
      "EditedText": "That discussion took place when we had moved out into the provost room. The council representatives were keen to examine the Local Government Boundary Commission for Scotland, because ward boundary changes have wiped what are considered to be communities from the map. It is an especially interesting situation, because the council is so finely balanced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 479304,
      "EditedText": "As a member of the opposition, I was not aware of that. I have never seen a star, so I can assume only that there has never been a free vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 479305,
      "EditedText": "There is a difference between a star and a black spot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12952,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 12952,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 479311,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it will.I thank members for their attendance. We had a good discussion this morning. We aired plenty of views and we will take those matters forward—we will not leave them stagnant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12952,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 12952,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 479313,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 479149,
      "EditedText": "We have consensus that there is a problem that needs to be addressed and that doing that effectively and fairly is not an easy task.I agree that there is not much point in having a discussion about whether the burden is disproportionate or excessive. As Sylvia Jackson said, we are agreed that the burden is unfair, or undue. If that is a fair expression of the consensus, it seems logical to encapsulate that agreed conclusion—with reference to the evidence behind it—in an interim report.I agree with the suggestion from Jamie Stone and the convener that an adviser should look further at the technical aspects. The issue is one of timing. Do we postpone further consideration until some future date, in particular until after revaluation? If we do, it will be extremely difficult for the Executive to introduce a scheme to address the problem that we all agree has been identified. That point of view is based on a number of practical concerns and is not intended as a party political point.The unfair burden faced by businesses has been identified in the evidence as being endemic to the system, because of the way in which rateable values are calculated. If that is the case, and I believe that the evidence supports that conclusion, the problem exists now and will exist after the revaluation. An interim report could express the lowest common denominator—that we all agree that a problem exists that needs to be addressed—and could perhaps state, for the record, the two solutions with which we have been presented. The interim report could also go a step further and invite the Executive to consider the matter urgently, so that the Executive could use its greater firepower—in terms of staff and resources—to address the problem before the rates revaluation rather than after it.If the problem were left until after the revaluation, imagine how difficult it would be, politically, to introduce the complication of a further relief scheme after the turbulence—a word that featured in the evidence—engendered by any revaluation. It is inevitable that there would be further losers—who would squeal very loudly—under that new scheme.As I said, politically, it would be difficult to introduce an effective scheme shortly after a revaluation. We should take forward the approach of inviting the Executive to grapple with the problems and produce a workable scheme, which would be introduced with the transitional relief scheme that is being considered. I fear strongly—and not in a party political way—that this subject will be shelved if we step back from that approach. It will gather dust and perhaps, for understandable reasons, nothing much will happen until 2005."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4793685+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 479194,
      "EditedText": "I agree that consensus seems to be expanding once again—this time, to produce an interim report—which is excellent news. Could that report contain a clear recommendation that the Executive put in place a scheme that redresses the unfair burden of business rates on smaller businesses? That would encapsulate the recommendation that I made earlier, one that Donald Gorrie supported, as a means of exerting that little bit of pressure that will be necessary to ensure progress in the matter. Could the report contain such a conclusion? I could read you the wording, if you wish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4793685+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 479129,
      "EditedText": "Thank you again, convener, for your invitation and warm welcome. Like Mr Paterson, I spent some time going through the evidence, and would like to talk about it. Like my colleagues, I do not believe that the statement in paragraph 6.1, quoted by Kenny Gibson, is correct in the light of the evidence that we received.John Downie of the Federation of Small Businesses said:\"small businesses pay 10 times more in business rates than larger businesses . . . As a percentage of overheads, small businesses pay 13.7 per cent in business rates, compared with 3 per cent for large companies.\"—Official Report, Local Government Committee, 2 November 1999; c 194.It is significant that even the Scottish Executive admitted that business rates were higher for smaller business than for larger businesses, as did the Forum of Private Business. Bill Howat of the Scottish Executive development department said:\"we accept that there is evidence of the extent to which the larger proportion of costs impacts on small businesses.\"—Official Report, Local Government Committee, 2 November 1999; c 221.Patrick Browne of the Scottish Retail Consortium said:\"We agree that business rates could well form a larger percentage of costs for small businesses than they do for large businesses.\"—Official Report, Local Government Committee, 10 November 1999; c 278.The CBI also admitted clearly that small businesses have a higher burden. Iain McMillan said:\"There is evidence to support the view that small businesses that have a lower rateable value have a higher rate burden, proportionally. We would not dispute that.\"—Official Report, Local Government Committee, 2 November 1999; c 229.He did not give any suggestion on how that problem might be dealt with.We should bear in mind the fact that, although the Scottish Assessors Association is quoted in the briefing paper, it made it plain that it was not its province to talk about policy matters. From my reading of the evidence—admittedly late last night—I could find no statement from any witness that justified the paper's statement that there is disagreement on whether there is an excessive burden of rates on small business.The paper is perhaps incomplete in another respect. Paragraph 6.3 says:\"Although the Executive has provided details of its transitional relief scheme, the full impact of the revaluation will not be known until details of the rate poundage are announced at a later date, probably after April 2000.\"We heard evidence from the assessors that, in order to calculate the poundage, one must know the rateable values following 1 April to work out the yield from the increased rateable value. However, the assessors supplied clear evidence of the average level of increase, which is 13 per cent. If that is applied to the aggregate cumulo-rateable values in Scotland, it takes only a simple mathematical calculation to work out the new poundage. That was indicated in the assessors' evidence. Therefore, even if the committee does not have precise information about the poundage, the Executive will have, which means that any consideration of the matter should not be delayed. I am sorry if I have taken a long time to explain that, but it is a useful point to raise at this stage in the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:03.1620198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 479124,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone agree or disagree with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 479125,
      "EditedText": "I want to develop Kenny Gibson's point further. I have read the evidence in the Official Report and can say that there is general agreement from every witness. For instance, Bill Howat of the Scottish Executive development department said:\"we accept that there is evidence of the extent to which the larger proportion of costs impacts on small businesses.\"—Official Report, Local Government Committee, 2 November 1999; c 221.I will not bore you with what other witnesses said; basically, it is the same throughout the report. I agree totally with Kenny Gibson. I thought that there was general agreement within the committee, which was implicit in the way in which we structured questions, that small businesses were getting the rough end of the stick on this. That statement needs to be altered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 479127,
      "EditedText": "The CBI says the same thing. The difference between the CBI and other witnesses was that, although it understood that there was a problem, it saw no great need to do anything about it. In its submission, it suggested that there were ways to help small businesses other than through the rates burden."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 479128,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that paragraph 6.1 is so inaccurate. There was a degree of disagreement about different issues. It is true that the organisations representing small businesses were arguing for a scheme, but there was no agreement about the form of scheme. In response to a question that I asked, one organisation—I think that it was the Scottish Retail Consortium—said that the best way forward was the Executive's idea of getting through the rates revaluation this winter and examining small business rates in the window of opportunity that the Executive suggested may exist after the revaluation. There was no common position, so the paragraph is a fair summary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 479130,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps this is just semantics, but I listened carefully to Fergus as he quoted comments made by some witnesses and the word \"excessive\" did not appear in any of them. However, the word \"disproportionate\" was mentioned, which is a separate matter. We generally agreed that there was a disproportionate—not excessive—burden on small businesses. Therefore, the statement in paragraph 6.1 is reasonably accurate. There was probably broad agreement that smaller businesses paid a larger proportion of rates in relation to their income than larger companies, which is not to say that the burden was excessive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 479138,
      "EditedText": "With all due respect, and in light of Colin Campbell's comments, any changes to that paragraph should take those comments into account. If that were to happen, I would need to ask the committee to consider changes to the recommendation in paragraph 8 of the paper, because even witnesses who were hostile to a scheme that would benefit small businesses suggested that there was added pressure on such businesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 479141,
      "EditedText": "That will not happen. The options for consideration make it clear that the briefing paper cannot become anything other than what it is. I am very open to changes to the options for consideration, but perhaps we should come back to that. I have allowed members to spend quite a long time on a briefing paper. Johann Lamont wants to speak, as does Bristow Muldoon; unless Keith Harding or Jamie Stone want to speak, I have allowed everybody in. After Johann and Bristow have spoken, we will discuss the options for consideration. If you want to add to those options, I am more than open to listening to what you have to say. We have to come to a decision today about how we move forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C479147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 479147,
      "EditedText": "I would support the appointment of an adviser; I think that we probably all would. I am minded to go with the second option:\"Take no further action at this stage, but return to the issue when the full impact of the forthcoming revaluation can be assessed.\"I would look for wider issues such as a business's turnover to be taken into account, as opposed to the rental value, which rates are based on at the moment.An issue that plagues many rural areas is small retail businesses in town centres versus a big supermarket on the outskirts. That has social implications in terms of elderly people and others who do not have transport and cannot get to shops. Perhaps I am driving at increased discretionary powers for councils to vary the rate burden, much as they can do with rural filling stations. An adviser could get his or her teeth into detailed work such as that and report back to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 479148,
      "EditedText": "I recommend that we go with the second option, but expand it to set a timetable for a full, detailed review next year. It would be appropriate for us to allow the rates revaluation to settle down, then to update the evidence that we have received on the basis of that revaluation and to consider the whole issue.A number of complex, sometimes contradictory, issues have been raised in the evidence that has been presented to us and it would be impractical to progress the matter further in the middle of a rating revaluation. However, the subject deserves a proper airing after the revaluation is complete. I am not sure that we need to appoint an adviser in the meantime."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 479150,
      "EditedText": "I disagree with that. I will argue for the middle option, which is that we do nothing at this stage. It was important, convener, that you included the view of the Scottish Assessors Association. I was struck by the fact that, in its deliberations, it had no axe to grind. It considered the matter with inside knowledge and no particular reason to go one way or another. It suggested that we do nothing at the moment and consider the issue after revaluation.The danger of having an interim report is that, when we do an assessment post revaluation, we will end up comparing the interim report with the evidence that emerges. There is no value in doing that. The assessors were right to say that, having addressed the issue at this point, we should take a step back and find out what the outcome is before we deliberate again on the impact of the revaluation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 479155,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that many people who we heard from were saying that we could do much about this revaluation. They said that it would be silly to try to do something in such a short period. Having said that, I have some sympathy with certain aspects of what Fergus Ewing said. We have spent a considerable amount of time on this issue and it would seem bad if we did not produce an interim or summary report to put on the table, stating our general feelings at the moment. It is important that we show some concern about the situation; saying that we will return to the issue later is not the best way in which to show that concern. It would be better to timetable this issue for examination as soon as possible and show that we see it as a priority. Obviously, we must balance it with other priorities.We should have a report and a timetable. I also suggest that we ask Jack McConnell back, so that we can say that we feel that there should be as much support as possible. We know that it will be limited in this revaluation, but we could ask him to tell us whether he has any ideas about how that support could be given. That would show that the committee was genuinely concerned to follow the matter through to the Scottish Executive. We will then have a timetabled in-depth examination, so that we can do something radical next time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 479157,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Sylvia Jackson and Donald Gorrie, and to some extent with Fergus Ewing. My only concern is the logistics. As a councillor, I know that the revaluation is almost complete and that a rate will have to be declared in March so that the books can be printed and everything can go out. I do not think that the Executive could bring out an alternative scheme within two or three months, especially given the Christmas period. We cannot leave this matter. We must have an interim report and we must recommend that the Executive considers this issue. I do not think that there is a problem with the sharing of the burden because, if that burden is disproportionate, the implication is that the disproportionate part goes to the bigger payers. We are not looking for alternative money within the budget; we are looking for a distribution among the various ratepayers. I am worried about the logistics. We must get through the revaluation and I do not think that the Executive can bring in an alternative scheme by next March."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 479160,
      "EditedText": "Some of us do not believe in the royal we. Laughter. No, I am referring to this committee. Obviously, we will have to liaise with the Executive—we should let the Executive know our views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 479162,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should do it now—it should be done before Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 479163,
      "EditedText": "Thank you—I needed to clarify that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 479166,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that we take no action; I am suggesting that we wait until next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C479170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 479170,
      "EditedText": "The point is that the committee has been in receive mode. We have the power to do things ourselves. Johann is right. We should get an adviser in. That is not a contradiction. An adviser could work away on the creative thinking and new approach that we need to take. The guts of the problem is why should Alldays in X premises pay the same as a tiny, wee greengrocer in the same premises? That is the question that needs to be addressed and where we can make a difference. In the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, I have been made rapporteur on the issue of rural schools and rural school closures—for my sins. Given time constraints and so on, perhaps a small group of members of the committee could work with the adviser. The rating problem affects bits of Glasgow just as much as a wee town in Caithness. It is about little businesses struggling and sometimes going under."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 479174,
      "EditedText": "No, it is a compromise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 479176,
      "EditedText": "Address your comments through the chair please."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 479183,
      "EditedText": "I am unhappy. The committee has been meeting since May. If it was known that it would be difficult to timetable alterations to this rating scheme, we should have dealt with it earlier. We should seek clarification on whether there are time constraints as far as the Executive is concerned.I notice that the committee has only one meeting scheduled between now and Christmas. I do not think that it would too onerous to schedule another to deal with this issue if the committee wanted to make recommendations to the Executive about a particular scheme. Sylvia said that only one scheme had been proposed, but the Forum of Private Business came up with a different one. I thought that it was a lot better, because it involved tapering rather than thresholds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 479180,
      "EditedText": "I will let Sylvia make a final comment and then I shall sum up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 479184,
      "EditedText": "It was a long-term scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 479185,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it was a long-term scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 479186,
      "EditedText": "Could you speak through the chair, please?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 479192,
      "EditedText": "Donald Gorrie says that we are confusing things, pulling the two things together when they do not affect each other. Why tie one to the other in the timetable? Why make March, before the revaluation, the end point for ensuring that relief is provided? It is not necessary. It must be done as soon as possible—as soon as there can be consensus and consultation on the complexities. I do not think that all the other groups that we heard had the opportunity to respond to what they had suggested.I thought there was strong consensus from all groups that the first priority that they wanted the Scottish Executive and this committee to address was the transitional relief. They wanted that to be in place before revaluation. As I have said before, we must move at the pace at which it is necessary to move on the other, in order to get a scheme that works. I am sure that we would not be thanked if we ended up with a scheme with which people were really unhappy, only to ask them for change again and again. We should proceed with speedy caution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 479201,
      "EditedText": "My only reservation is that we want to express concern about small businesses and that we want the Executive to tell us how it is thinking about this issue rather than to come forward with a scheme, as Fergus Ewing said originally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 479204,
      "EditedText": "This has been a masterpiece of consensual committee work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 479206,
      "EditedText": "I think that there was a wee bit of co-operation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 479211,
      "EditedText": "Why has Glasgow City Council been asked to submit evidence separately from COSLA?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 479213,
      "EditedText": "You are asking one council out of 32, which seems anomalous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 479215,
      "EditedText": "Can I reveal my ignorance and ask what the Braendam Link is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 479217,
      "EditedText": "It might wiser if we were to book a longer session, be disciplined and get away early, rather than risk running out of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 479221,
      "EditedText": "Why is Unison on the list? Why not the Scottish Trades Union Congress or a group of local public service trade unions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 479225,
      "EditedText": "There are different levels of trade union organisations in local government. It might be easier to get the STUC to represent them or to get a delegation of two or three senior trade union representatives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 479231,
      "EditedText": "What about the Accounts Commission?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 479232,
      "EditedText": "We had better see how long it would take us. I will add the Accounts Commission to the list. Do members want me to ask an ombudsman to tell us what their role would be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 479233,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C479244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 479244,
      "EditedText": "So be it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 479246,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 479247,
      "EditedText": "We can move the final discussion on McIntosh forward. Are members happy to come back later to what will happen in February and March? I have made some changes and we will need to examine those more closely. Is that acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 479248,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 479251,
      "EditedText": "Can I clarify that, although the content has been changed on the list, the dates and times are the same?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 479252,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Items have just been moved up. I will ask the clerks to make the revised programme available as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 479253,
      "EditedText": "Will the venues be the same?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 479255,
      "EditedText": "That is not a possibility at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 479257,
      "EditedText": "There might be debates that we all want to attend for their duration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 479259,
      "EditedText": "That might have to go before the Standards Committee. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 479260,
      "EditedText": "We could just hold our meeting in Brussels."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 479267,
      "EditedText": "Our morning session overran by about 45 minutes—probably because we spent so much time discussing local government finance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 479268,
      "EditedText": "The council's response to that question is conspicuously missing from the notes, so they do not quite capture the flavour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 479269,
      "EditedText": "The council clearly stated that it wished an independent review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 479270,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 479272,
      "EditedText": "We should get that answer from all local authorities.My concern about the Glasgow visit was that only two out of the 79 elected councillors were there. I am not sure whether the other political parties, or other members of the ruling group, were invited. When I went to City of Aberdeen and East Renfrewshire Councils, nine members and at least three political parties were present in each case. I am therefore not sure how representative the views expressed in the report are.I am concerned about what you said about AV. The answer to the fourth question you asked says that an AV top-up system was rejected\"because it would actually strengthen the dominant party.\"I cannot understand how that is mathematically possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 479274,
      "EditedText": "The council ruled out the idea of top-up lists—it was not happy about that. Following on from that, the AV top-up system implies a list and that was also rejected. The council said that it could see the merit in the AV system, because of the rule of 15 per cent plus one, but it did not think that that would help in terms of distributing power."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 479280,
      "EditedText": "How times have changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 479285,
      "EditedText": "I still believe that, if you had been able to compare and contrast the official position with that of opposition members, you might have found that the opposition might not have agreed with council policy. However, given that 73 members were against the proposal, the policy would have gone through."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 479286,
      "EditedText": "There might be a different view of the first-past-the-post system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 479293,
      "EditedText": "It certainly felt that if a need is recognised and if it is possible to say exactly where money needs to be spent, there has to be an element of trust between the Executive and the council in order to do that. That is a fair point. If that does not happen, the councils are pulled into account, but after they have been given the chance to do it. I say that without wishing to go down the \"Here is an area of priority treatment\" road, which we went down in the 1980s, throwing money at problems.If there is a clear need for something and the Executive recognises that, the money should be put in, but it should not be ring-fenced. The trust between councils and the Executive should be strengthened and given a chance to flourish—if that is the right word. Council representatives said that they were disappointed that local government finance was not in the McIntosh report's remit, and they saw the committee as having a crucial role. Donald Gorrie and I said that discussion of local government finance was on our agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 479288,
      "EditedText": "Stirling Council produced written answers to the questions—we gave it quite good marks out of 10. Eugene Windsor has produced a paper, which summarises the further discussion that we had with the council. I will concentrate on a few points that I thought were particularly striking. On the issue of general competence, Stirling Council felt like other councils—that such power could be linked to community planning. The council believes that a bill giving councils the duty and power to lead and the other players a general duty to co-operate would help the process forward. It would love a wider power of general competence, but it felt that we could make a start in that area.The decentralisation of Stirling Council seemed to be real and impressed me. We all have experience of organisations whose claims to have decentralised turn out to be a sham, but in this case it seems to be genuine. Interestingly, Stirling conducted a postal ballot for community council elections, in which the turnout was between 40 and 60 per cent. The single transferable vote system was used and seemed to work very well. Postal elections are an issue that we need to consider.Stirling is an interesting council, because the area that it covers is 50 per cent urban and 50 per cent rural. There are problems, but the council is addressing them seriously. It hopes to arrive at a system of scrutiny by the community, which is an interesting concept, even if it has not yet been realised. The council thinks that democracy should not consist simply in people trotting into a polling station every now and then to put an X on a piece of paper, and that they need to be involved. The council said, if I understood it correctly, that items on its agendas on which there was a free vote were starred. That seemed to me to be a step forward.The council was dead against elected Jeffrey Archers and cabinets. Councils that have taken decentralisation seriously believe that a cabinet system would work against that.I was impressed by the fact that the council was experimenting with a slightly different set-up of committees and departments. The remit of the children's committee and director of children's services, for instance, includes social work involving children as well as schools. Curiously, however, it does not include youth work, which may be an issue for the future.The council was working genuinely to increase participation by young people. It has set up children's committees, at which school pupils discuss issues relevant to them. They have dealt with such basic but important issues as the weight of school satchels, flooding and lavatories.This and the other visit that I have made so far, to Highland Council, illustrated the enormous variety of ways in which councils operate and the their good practice. Councils are not all perfect, but they all do some things well. We should encourage them to continue doing those things well and discourage the Executive from being on their back. British civil servants have an extraordinary lust for regulation, and I think that they should be told to get stuffed—if that is a parliamentary expression. With proper monitoring, councils can be allowed to get on with things. They are doing good things and, if given more general powers, they could do more. Parliament should set out targets and put in place appropriate monitoring, but it should not impose detailed regulation. That is the message that I have brought back from Stirling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 479295,
      "EditedText": "You had not told them yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 479297,
      "EditedText": "Except the Conservative group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 479298,
      "EditedText": "Yes, except the Conservatives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 479300,
      "EditedText": "It was interesting that no clear view was expressed one way or the other in the Stirling report. At the two councils that I visited, there was a clear view. One was Glasgow and the other was Highland, where there is no overall  majority.  Was there a definitive view from Stirling Council?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 479301,
      "EditedText": "I cannot remember anything definitive coming out, to be honest. Having seen the list MSPs and the situation in Europe, the council representatives seemed to be saying that it was not a good idea. For Europe, there is a vague list and people do not really know whom they are voting for. Members of the Conservative group certainly said that they opposed it, but I cannot remember any positive comments being made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C479302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 479302,
      "EditedText": "Did Donald say that the council put asterisks or stars against a free vote?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 479306,
      "EditedText": "Kenny Gibson asked about the reference to making liars out of councils. In addition to what you said, convener, I took it that the Executive—or previously the UK Government—produced a scheme with strict rules. The council has, to some extent, to tell lies to fit its scheme into a sort of straitjacket. The council may have a good scheme, but it has to cheat a bit round the edges to make it fit the Government guidelines. It is felt that that is a bad thing. The councillors were in favour of trust between the council and the Executive. If they make a hash of it, they are hauled over the coals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 479307,
      "EditedText": "Would the Executive look kindly on a council that admitted in a submission to the committee that it lies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12952,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 12952,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 479309,
      "EditedText": "The next item is my report. Wearing my convener's hat, I spoke at a Unison meeting the week before last at the invitation of its executive. Norman Murray was the other speaker and we did a double act before answering questions. The same sort of issues came up as we have been discussing in the committee, such as the concern that McIntosh had not considered finance. I said that the committee would consider local government finance and that, although there would not be any more money, we would examine how it is divided up.Unison was concerned about housing stock transfer, but Wendy Alexander has said that it is up to councils whether they go down the road of stock transfer. Concern was also expressed about proportional representation, and again people felt that the examples of this Parliament and of the European Parliament were not good ones. I pointed out that there are other types of PR and that we must discuss the matter. We might return to first past the post, but we should at least discuss the alternatives.I felt that it was a helpful meeting. Having spoken to councils, trade union groups and other interested parties, I know that they feel that the committee is with them rather than against them. That is good and, when I speak to those groups, I can tell them that members of the committee are committed to local government and local provision of services. After I left, I thought that, in all our deliberations and evidence sessions, we have missed the trade unions. Matt Smith came to the committee on a specific remit—to talk about his position vis-à-vis the McIntosh report. I suggest that we have a trade union session, at which we listen to the trade unions, which are relevant to—and loom large in—local government. I would have an agenda for that, with certain questions that we might want to ask, if members have any ideas. We should have that session before we produce our final McIntosh report. That will add another aspect to the picture.I am asked to speak quite often, and it is not a single transferable speech—I change it round depending on where I am. I give people the support of the committee, and tell them about how the committee is made up and that so far—although this morning we came close—we have not fallen out and gone to a vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12952,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 12952,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 479312,
      "EditedText": "With a bit of amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12952,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 12952,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 479314,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:06."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 479179,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I want to respond to Bristow's argument that there is a lack of consensus on various points. If, as I believe, there is consensus that there is an undue burden of business rates on small business, it must follow logically that there is consensus that there is an unfairly low burden on larger business. In other words, if small businesses are getting the raw deal, the larger business must be paying slightly lower business rates than is reasonable.  There is also consensus, as Kenny Gibson said, that the solution is not to throw extra cash at the problem from elsewhere in the block; the scheme must be self-financing. The committee could set out certain desirable principles. I note from the Official Report that Gerry Dowds of the Forum of Private Business set out a number of principles to which I feel I could subscribe and which seemed to express common sense. Other members have indicated that the forum's scheme was to be preferred—Donald Gorrie in particular was of that view. The principles that Mr Dowds outlined were straightforward. \"First, relief should be targeted on the size of business, taking account of the close relationship between the impact of rates and the size of a business . . . Secondly, size should be measured on current information. Rateable value is dated . . . Thirdly, relief should be aimed at businesses, not premises . . . Fourthly, thresholds should be avoided\".His final point is that the scheme \"must be simple for businesses and local authorities to apply and administer.\"—Official Report, Local Government Committee, 10 November 1999; c 293.We can all subscribe to those principles.I want to respond to the question Michael McMahon and Johann Lamont asked about what an interim report would achieve. That begs the question of what the committee's role is. It seems to me that the role of a committee of the Scottish Parliament is not to produce a perfect scheme to draft legislation in a complex area, but rather to identify a problem and the principles that could provide a solution, and to present the Executive with a consensus view setting out those principles. We can do that because we have the consensus to do it.Finally, we need to do it now. If it is not done now, I believe that it will never happen. As for the practicality, I do not see why, given that it is now November, the Executive could not come up with a workable scheme to be implemented by 1 April. Governments can achieve quite a lot in a short space of time and, although I understand the technical objections of people who have experience of working on councils, this is a matter of policy. I would have thought that the vast resources of the Executive could be deployed to come up with a workable solution—or at least it should make the effort to do that.My notarial motto is nunc aut nunquam, which I believe means now or never. I have always been a believer in having a stab at something worthwhile now, otherwise it never happens."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4793685+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 24 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12946,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12946,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 479121,
      "EditedText": "Good morning and welcome to this meeting of the Local Government Committee. I welcome Fergus Ewing, who, I suspect, has joined us for the part of the meeting that is of interest to him rather than the whole meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 479122,
      "EditedText": "The first item is the inquiry into business rating revaluation. I would be interested to hear members' comments on the options for consideration that I have laid out at the end of the briefing paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 479123,
      "EditedText": "In paragraph 6.1 on complexity, the paper says:\"There is disagreement about whether or not the burden of rates on small business is excessive\". I did not think that there was any such disagreement. I thought that even the organisations representing bigger enterprises agreed that the burden on small businesses was excessive, and that that was the view of everyone who presented evidence to us. There may be disagreement about how to alter the situation, but the statement in 6.1 is erroneous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 479126,
      "EditedText": "The statement is a comment on evidence, rather than the opinion of the committee. Perhaps you should look at what the Confederation of British Industry said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 479131,
      "EditedText": "I hope that I am not complicating matters further, but I have tried to remember how I felt at the end of the previous meeting. Reading through the document, I thought that I had come out of the consultation with four main ideas. First, the review of the system seemed to be difficult in the revaluation round, which represents a dramatic change to the system. Secondly, a more fundamental change in the system was needed in the long term. Thirdly, we agreed generally that small businesses need more support. Last, witnesses seemed to agree that the threshold approach had implications for bodies such as the Scottish Assessors Association. I thought that we felt about the same at the end of our previous meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 479133,
      "EditedText": "It is a briefing paper that sets out ideas that have been raised and suggestions on the way forward. I know what you are doing and I am letting you all do it, but I will sort it out afterwards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 479134,
      "EditedText": "That is helpful. I want to follow the path that Sylvia suggested. Everyone was enthusiastic about a transitional relief scheme, which we should endorse. Accepting Michael McMahon's point about semantics, we should agree that small businesses face an undue problem, about which we should do something after the revaluation when all the new values are known. The second group of witnesses from the Forum of Private Business, with their slightly more complicated proposals involving national insurance, had a much better scheme than the Federation of Small Businesses, which however did us a great service by alerting us to the issue. As the assessors said, the federation's scheme had considerable flaws."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 479135,
      "EditedText": "The discussion seems to hinge on whether the word \"excessive\" was used and how the word is interpreted. Although I am not by nature, inclination or tradition someone who rewrites minutes or reports, we could delete the text of paragraph 6.1 from \"There is disagreement\" to \"and even\" and substitute: \"It was generally agreed that the burden of business rates was disproportionately high for small businesses.\" Perhaps that would make other members feel comfortable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 479137,
      "EditedText": "I do not think so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 479140,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that, but I have an awful feeling that the briefing paper might become something more substantial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 479142,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to whether the burden is excessive. At no stage did we discuss whether the rates that we take from businesses are excessive. If we were to discuss that, we would have to involve a far broader group of people, including those who might benefit from the business rate that was being raised. A clear, consistent theme has been that rates are seen as a disproportionate burden on small businesses. Rates are a bigger issue for small businesses when it comes to planning, because they account for such a huge proportion of costs. For some small businesses, rates are higher than wage bills.Even in relation to solutions, the emphasis did not seem to focus entirely on dealing with disproportionate business rates. Significant discussion took place on the definition of a small business; such a definition, of course, would create a position from which to make decisions. Some witnesses also emphasised the importance of transitional relief. The briefing paper reflects that, as do our options for consideration.Donald Gorrie was right to say that the committee should send a clear message that transitional relief is extremely important and that supporting small business is a complex matter, partly because of the need for a clear definition. However, it is clear that small business—however we define it—has a disproportionate concern about rating. It would be helpful if the committee focused on those two points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 479144,
      "EditedText": "I will pass at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 479145,
      "EditedText": "Okay. I repeat that we are dealing with a briefing paper. I agree with what Donald Gorrie said—I left our previous meeting thinking that we agreed on a transitional scheme and that we needed to look at the business rate for small businesses.The next step is to consider how we do that; the briefing paper contains three suggestions. A further option might be to introduce an independent adviser, if we feel that the matter is complex enough to warrant that. As I said, I am open to suggestions if anyone wants to add to those options. Our inquiry was good, but we must decide what to do next and I think that members will agree that we are all coming from the same place. No one is saying, \"No. They are paying a fair business rate. End of story.\" There is an agreement that the rating burden on small business is disproportionate.Does anyone want to add to the three options in the briefing paper? I would be prepared to add the option of having an adviser, if members think that that would be appropriate. Eugene can tell us what the adviser would do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 479146,
      "EditedText": "To some extent, that would depend on the brief that the adviser was given. Typically, the adviser would examine all the evidence that has been received so far, evaluate it and advise the committee. The adviser might suggest other evidence that the committee might want to take as a further development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 479153,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 479164,
      "EditedText": "It would be rather premature if the committee issued an interim report, because all we have done is conduct a study into one particular area of local business costs. We have not even taken evidence from the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning on how he wishes to stimulate the small business sector. It would be wrong to issue an interim report on the basis of partial evidence. The disproportionate burden of rates on small businesses has been mentioned, but some have suggested that we should jump to a conclusion when there is not even consensus about how such a scheme should be funded. For example, should it be funded from other parts of the Scottish block or by larger businesses? We have not addressed those issues properly. We also had the evidence of the representative of Boots, Mike Flecknoe. He said that some of the schemes that are being proposed would benefit some larger businesses. There is no substantive scheme around which there is consensus and it is simplistic to suggest that the system could be altered by March. In addition, the committee's burden of work over the next few months includes consideration of the ethical standards bill, the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill, the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill, the power of general competence, evidence from Richard Kerley and our on-going work on McIntosh. It would not be practical for us to take the lead on completing work on this issue between now and March and, quite apart from what the assessors tell us, there is no consensus in the business community. It would be wrong for us to produce an interim report on the basis of partial evidence. The issue deserves to be addressed, but it would not be appropriate for us to jump to conclusions at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 479165,
      "EditedText": "First, we should remember that no one around this table suggested that we should take the money from the Scottish block. That suggestion came from one of the witnesses. We should get that right in the first place. Traditionally, I am a bit frightened of taking no action. I never think that no action is best in any situation, as momentum is lost. I think that we have—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 479167,
      "EditedText": "You are suggesting that we take no further action at this stage and that we return to the issue later, which amounts to taking no action for three or four months. I do not think that such a hiatus is legitimate in terms of the work in which we are involved, as it comes at two levels. Revaluation is going to take place anyway and we have acquired, to a certain degree, the other overview from the business community on the way ahead. While revaluation will happen at a practical level, we have learned a lot about what the business community thinks it needs and about what it wants to do to address the problems of small businesses. I see no reason why the operation cannot take place at those two levels. One would be the practical level and the other would be the strategic overview level, which we would provide, where ideas can be bounced about and principles can be laid down. We could come up with principles on which we all agree within the hour—we could then take it from there. I find the option of delaying completely unattractive, Bristow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 479171,
      "EditedText": "We cannot form a sub-committee, if that is what you mean, but we can discuss the idea later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C479173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 479173,
      "EditedText": "That is a cop-out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C479175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 479175,
      "EditedText": "No. If all we do is pass the buck, it is a cop-out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 479177,
      "EditedText": "We are essentially saying that we cannot agree, that the evidence that we have taken does not suggest an agreement, but that we want the Executive to do something. What is the value in that? If we were to take our time, take the assessors' advice and wait until we have all the evidence so that we get the complete picture, that would be of far more value and substance in encouraging the Executive to do something than a report that says that we cannot agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 479181,
      "EditedText": "Apart from the Forum of Private Business, which came up with the threshold approach and gave us a concrete example of a scheme that could be proposed, I do not think that there is anything that we could put in place in that short time scale. Fergus Ewing says that the Scottish Executive has resources available, but it would also be stretched. I agree with his view that we must have a timetable for moving forward. That is important, but his suggestion of bringing in a new scheme by the spring may be rather unrealistic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 479188,
      "EditedText": "The approach that the convener has suggested seems sensible. It is not practical in any way, shape or form to have a new scheme in place by March of next year. The assessors pointed out a number of key problems that they foresaw with the first scheme that was shown to us. The second scheme proposed an interaction between the rating system and the national insurance system. We have not even heard from the UK Government whether that scheme could be implemented. There would have to be quite a lot of working up by the Executive, in discussion with the UK Government and business, before any scheme of that nature could be introduced. I do not see any way in which a scheme could be introduced by March of next year and not cause turmoil in the business sector. It is impractical to proceed on that basis, and that is why I endorse the approach that you are arguing for, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 479191,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Donald. Of all the schemes that were suggested, there was fair agreement that the FPB scheme seemed the best way forward. The only question, as I remember from the debate on it, was how applicable it could be. It was initially thought of as a long-term solution. The forum thought of it as radical change. I agree with Donald Gorrie that we should move with it and see how far we can go. That most likely is not practical, but let us go with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 479197,
      "EditedText": "If the adviser tells us that we have to speak to COSLA and consider some of the points that Bristow Muldoon raised, we will do so long before we produce an interim report. We will tighten up the timetable, but the report will be based on what we have heard and wish to hear in the next few weeks.Is there some agreement about what I plan to do? I know that you do not all support it 100 per cent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 479203,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 479205,
      "EditedText": "That was the chair and nothing to do with you guys."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Business Rating Revaluation ",
      "HeadingID": 12947,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12947,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 479207,
      "EditedText": "I would like to thank Eugene Windsor for all the things that he has been whispering in your ear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 479208,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill. Is there any comment on the briefing paper about the bill, on which we will have to report in January? You will see that I have moved the timetable around slightly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 479210,
      "EditedText": "We will hear from four organisations, and then we will have to discuss the evidence and report to the lead committee. If you think that we can do all the work in a meeting from 10 o'clock to half-past 12 or half-past 1—until whenever the room is booked—that is fine. However, I have noticed that members have got fed up and tired when we have met for that length of time. It is important that we get the report right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 479214,
      "EditedText": "Glasgow City Council is going to submit a written report. In a sense, that will be extra information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12948,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12948,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 479219,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 479220,
      "EditedText": "With regard to the ethical standards in public life bill, I have suggested that we take evidence from COSLA, SOLACE, which is the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and General Managers, SOLAR, which is the Society of Local Authority Lawyers and Administrators in Scotland, and Unison. We could add the ombudsman to that list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 479224,
      "EditedText": "Would you rather the STUC represented them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 479226,
      "EditedText": "Fine, I have no problem with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 479229,
      "EditedText": "I think that they should be included, but that is a different issue.Apart from the health boards, there are the water boards and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 479230,
      "EditedText": "You are expanding this into a whole day. I have no problem with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 479234,
      "EditedText": "We will also get representations from unions rather than from a particular union."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 479235,
      "EditedText": "It may be that written evidence will be adequate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 479236,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards in Public Life Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12949,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ID": 12949,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 479238,
      "EditedText": "We can leave that open.Can I confirm that members want copies of the submissions that the Executive has received during its consultation process? We should also get the list of people whom it consulted. There may be some written submissions that mean that we do not have to call certain groups. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 479240,
      "EditedText": "I want to make some changes to the forward plan. I thought that we could have a free day on 8 December to allow the clerks to catch up on reports. However, we need to use that day.Most members do not seem to have a copy of the forward plan. The clerk will make some photocopies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 479250,
      "EditedText": "It looks as though we will have to split the debate on poindings and warrant sales. The first part of our debate will be split between the 1 January and 12 January. The second part will be on 18 January. We have many people to take evidence from and it is an important bill. We must also complete a report for the Justice and Home Affairs Committee—the lead committee—that it will incorporate in its report. We are, in a sense, holding that committee up, but I make no apology for that. Our agenda is busy and that committee must wait until we have done our business properly. Our report will be ready to go to the lead committee on 18 January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 479254,
      "EditedText": "Yes. If we split the discussion on warrant sales between 12 January and 18 January, we will not run into any difficulties. If things get tight nearer that time, members will have to consider using a Monday afternoon if they feel that more time should be spent on warrant sales. The clerk will tell us what the possibility is of staying late one evening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 479256,
      "EditedText": "The possibility of committees meeting at the same time as Parliament is being seriously examined by the Parliamentary Bureau and the committee of conveners. I have never quite understood why committees cannot meet at such times."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12950,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 12950,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 479261,
      "EditedText": "That affects only Sylvia Jackson. We will be changing the timetable for February and March anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 479263,
      "EditedText": "The visit to Glasgow City Council was the first that we timetabled. It was important that we started there, given Glasgow's position as the largest council in Scotland in terms of population and expenditure. I was slightly disappointed that only Michael McMahon and I attended, but I know that other members could not attend for good reasons, However, the result was that only Labour members of the committee were present.The visit was very useful. We were able to flesh out many of the views of Glasgow City Council regarding several aspects of the McIntosh report. In some areas the council has not reached final conclusions, so some of the views that were expressed to us are the views of Councillor Charlie Gordon, the leader of the council. He stated strongly that on some issues the council has still to meet formally before submitting a response. I imagine, however, that Councillor Gordon has a good understanding of what the response will be, given his position as council leader.I want to raise a few points. Glasgow supported the power of general competence, although that was not its prime concern with regard to the McIntosh commission. It supported the principle of that power being granted, although it felt that there were other ways of dealing with some of the issues that were raised by that power.Glasgow City Council felt particularly strongly about the question of an independent review of local government finance. The council supports the principle of moving to a situation where business rates are set on a local authority basis, but its primary concern was an issue that Johann has raised on several occasions, that of Glasgow's metropolitan status and the way in which the greater Glasgow community benefits from services that Glasgow provides. Related to that is the fact that the residents of the middle-class suburbs around Glasgow use the city as a place to work but do not contribute to the cost of its services. When those issues are seen in relation to the poverty that exists in Glasgow, the seriousness of the situation becomes apparent.The way that the business rates are distributed means that Glasgow finds it hard to ensure that revenue that is raised in the city is returned to the city. The council wants that issue taken forward by the Executive and indicated that it would support any initiative that was taken by this committee to ensure that that happened.On decision making, the council said that it was reviewing its systems of operation. It felt that some aspects of the issue were exaggerated by McIntosh, particularly the question of whipping. It said that it did not use whipping regularly in the Labour group. I do not know whether the SNP group holds regular whipping sessions.Charlie Gordon also said that he felt that Glasgow had been innovative in its approach to committees and mentioned that Glasgow was the first council to establish a standards committee. Through initiatives such as the citizens panel, it is trying to involve the community in the decision-making process. It does not favour a move towards the cabinet system of local government organisation that was suggested by McIntosh.People are well aware that Glasgow City Council expressed support for the retention of the first-past-the-post system of election for local government. It is concerned about the way in which the Scottish Parliament works, with division of case work becoming politicised. It drew attention to the fact that local government does different work from that which is done by the Scottish Parliament. The primary role of the Parliament is legislative, so an additional member system might be workable as there would be more of a role for members who did not have a particular constituency to serve. The council strongly expressed the view that its prime principle was that the link between the constituency and the member should be retained. It felt that the most appropriate way to do that was by having a single-member, first-past-the-post system.I would suggest one slight correction to the report of the visit. When Michael McMahon asked about AV—alternative vote—top-up, the council representatives said that, although they did not support AV top-up, they were prepared to look at AV itself—that is, a majoritarian system—because in that system every single councillor would have to have received the support of 50 per cent of the electorate in their area at some point in the election. They saw that as improving the legitimacy of a councillor's election. But I must stress that it was AV and not AV top-up in which they expressed interest.The representatives were quite happy with the suggestion that local authority elections should take place on the same day as elections to the Scottish Parliament; they felt that it was important to boost turnouts. They also believed that there were other ways of doing that. In particular, they felt that we should consider having a continually updated electoral roll, as that would deal with problems such as people changing address and so becoming disfranchised.On most of the other issues that we raised, the council still had to come to final conclusions. It highlighted some areas where it felt that it was already working towards implementing many of the principles in the McIntosh report.It was a useful and worthwhile meeting, and it allowed us to explore some of the reasoning behind the views that the council had expressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 479264,
      "EditedText": "My constituency covers North and South Lanarkshire, and I could see many similarities between issues that are raised there and those that are raised in Glasgow. The impression that I took away from the visit was that there is definitely a need—because of the compounded impact of the issues that the council highlighted—for special status to be given to Glasgow as a local authority. When we visited the housing department and the homelessness unit, the scale of the difficulties that Glasgow faces was obvious. Those difficulties are greater than those suffered in other parts of Scotland. I want to say on record that Glasgow's difficulties are especially significant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 479265,
      "EditedText": "The second question that you asked Glasgow City Council was whether it took a view on the McIntosh commission's recommendation for an independent review of local government finance. The conclusion in your report is a masterpiece of not quite answering the question. Have I missed something? Was the issue discussed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 479266,
      "EditedText": "The council clearly said that it wished an independent review. I do not know whether other members of the committee have seen it, but a full written response by Glasgow City Council to our questions is available and would be useful to members. The paper that Colin has is just our notes from the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 479271,
      "EditedText": "If you wanted to add one word to the report to make it clearer, the word would be yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 479275,
      "EditedText": "It was quite curious that the two councils that I went to were agin the proposal in question 6. Glasgow City Council said that directly elected provosts\"could have ramifications for sleaze and mismanagement\".Did the council expand on that statement, or was it a reaction to the Jeffrey Archer-Ken Livingstone situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 479276,
      "EditedText": "I think that the council was thinking about American models and about the concentration of power in one person. It felt that councils would have greater democratic accountability by having a range of members with responsibility, rather than concentrating power in one individual. It felt that that would be a healthier system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 479277,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps it was thinking about Pat Lally having another shot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 479278,
      "EditedText": "I cannot possibly comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 479281,
      "EditedText": "Are you finished, Kenny?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 479289,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up Michael McMahon's point. Having been a councillor in Glasgow, I can see how the deprivation there leads to a more cumbersome approach, and why it is much more difficult to get things off the ground there than in smaller councils such as Stirling. However, I was impressed by Stirling. I was also impressed by the council's admission that Government initiatives with challenge funding—of which it has been a net beneficiary—are not the way to proceed. Rather, Governments should start to trust councils, instead of ring-fencing so much and designating everything as challenge funding.In the afternoon, we visited a family centre in the Raploch. The woman who ran the centre had been there for about 15 years. She said that when she started, the kids coming to the centre were from families with difficulties of all kinds, and that the mothers and parents were there too, whereas now, they all appear to have jobs—or a larger percentage of them have jobs, which surprised me, although I thought that it was very good. She had seen quite a dramatic change, especially in the past three or four years, with women returning to work or attending some form of education that would, we hope, take them into jobs—in other words, the new deal. It was interesting to hear about the opposition in Stirling Council. It is fragile, but it is there. Council members do, however, seem to be able to work together. I was impressed both by what they were doing and by the officials and the way in which they approached their work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 479303,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Councils (Visits)",
      "HeadingID": 12951,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ID": 12951,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 479308,
      "EditedText": "That was the expression that the councillors used, because they had to fit their scheme to certain criteria before they could get money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2703
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12952,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ID": 12952,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 479310,
      "EditedText": "On the special islands needs allowance, will that come up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5348367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 24 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 285939,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the public meeting at 09:36"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 285941,
      "EditedText": "What consultation has there been with the staff organisations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 285944,
      "EditedText": "We feel that, from the start, there has been a lack of timely and honest consultation. As I said, that has improved only slightly. The document that you mentioned has not been adhered to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 285949,
      "EditedText": "Not at all?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 285951,
      "EditedText": "If a decision is presented to a staff organisation as a fait accompli, how can you take that forward? How can that be consultation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 285955,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that that is a danger, given the way that things are going?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 285960,
      "EditedText": "Not necessarily. We are asking for adequate services to serve our community. We are well aware of, and grateful for, Ninewells and high-tech medicine. However, we would like the everyday bread-and-butter things to be brought to Stracathro and kept there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 285961,
      "EditedText": "One of our main concerns is that services have been so eroded that the hospital will not be viable. Maintaining services is our main priority, although we would like to return to the position that we were in five years ago. The emergency surgical services were removed from the hospital only a year and a half ago; that had a devastating effect. A brand new general surgical unit had been built for those purposes. We ask that the services that exist be retained, as we are about to lose our stroke service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 285962,
      "EditedText": "Do you hold out hope of returning to the hospital's previous level of service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 285967,
      "EditedText": "We have not carried out costings on that. However, there is a £10 million flyover coming into the site. A lot of bad publicity about Stracathro is being circulated, which says that the buildings are in a terrible state. That is not the case. There are a lot of very good buildings and high-quality care is available there. The financial input should not be anything like as enormous as the cost of taking everybody through to Ninewells, of having to extend the service there and of putting bread-and-butter people into high-tech beds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith (Stracathro Staff Action Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 285969,
      "EditedText": "Until the changeover of trust, Stracathro seemed to be paying its way fairly well. It did not have a large deficit, but a deficit was inherited from the other two trusts. There can be absolutely no doubt that the sudden suspension of the two surgeons decimated the surgical service. There was absolutely no attempt to replace those services or to provide proper locum cover. The services had to move to Dundee.Moreover, we discovered only recently that the trust's policy has been not to award any more long-term contracts to consultants. Obviously, if a consultant does not have a long-term contract, he or she is not going to continue to work at a hospital. That is why the services have been decimated in the medical service as well as in the surgical service. We feel that the trust has not enunciated what is in fact its clear policy; it is hiding behind the acute services review even though it decided, two years ago, to decimate the services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 285970,
      "EditedText": "There seems to be some conflict. Your submission says:\"The Chairman and Chief Executive of Tayside Health Board has repeatedly stated that no decisions will be taken . . . until the acute services review is published.\"It also says:\"The Medical Director of Tayside University Hospital  Trust has said that Stracathro will close within eighteen months.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 285977,
      "EditedText": "You are saying that there are 32 vacant nursing posts at Stracathro?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 285980,
      "EditedText": "It is very stressful for the staff. The staff are dedicated to providing the best care. The posts that are vacant have been so for several months. The patient care in my ward has not altered, as we try our best to provide the nursing care that is appropriate to each patient. The stress is more on the staff than on the patients—their care is not affected by the current level of staffing, as we are putting in extra effort."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 285982,
      "EditedText": "Yes. You stated that the medical director had said that the hospital would close but that the trust board had said that that was not the case. Is the medical director a member of the trust board?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 285983,
      "EditedText": "Yes, he is. He is the medical director of the trust."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 285984,
      "EditedText": "He sits on the trust board?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 285988,
      "EditedText": "So, he is a full member of the trust board?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 286004,
      "EditedText": "That takes no account of the personal lives and commitment of staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 286006,
      "EditedText": "Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust was shadowing Angus NHS Trust for a year, during which time there was no talk of alterations to services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 286008,
      "EditedText": "Not at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 286012,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 286016,
      "EditedText": "So the trust did not attempt to find locum surgeons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 286018,
      "EditedText": "Locum surgeons came for just three months, and then went to Dundee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 286019,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to establish whether there is a pattern of non-consultation by the previous trust, the shadow trust and now the present trust over the episode in August."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 286020,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We have a lack of confidence in what the trust tells us because of what has happened in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 286024,
      "EditedText": "It is rather frightening when one sees something on paper that seems impressive but is not so impressive when one hears what other people say.Your submission says that Stracathro's contribution to Tayside Health Board's deficit of £12 million is £750,000. Can you clarify that? You mentioned a telephone system and so on. Do you feel that you are being unfairly targeted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C286030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 286030,
      "EditedText": "I will continue with the consultation questions. With other local members, I had a meeting recently with Tayside Health Board. I think that the review is published on 15 or 16 December. What indication have you been given regarding consultation after the publication of the review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C286034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 286034,
      "EditedText": "There will be public meetings, but not necessarily meetings with the staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 286035,
      "EditedText": "We understand that there will be public meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C286036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 286036,
      "EditedText": "I have one final point. The review has been widely leaked, or at least its broad parameters have been. It seems certain that there will be a hospital in Angus, but the question is where it will be located. During the review, have you been consulted on that issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 286037,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 286038,
      "EditedText": "Certain nurses in Stracathro have been involved in the past couple of months with the acute services review, but nothing has been said about that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 286041,
      "EditedText": "The quality of nursing at Stracathro and the care of the consultants and of the teams is such that they put patient care before themselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 286042,
      "EditedText": "We will leave it there. I am aware that we could ask you lots more questions, but we have run out of time. We have several people to see this morning. On behalf of the committee, I thank you for coming in. You have survived us: there was no need to be worried. We appreciate your written submission and the oral evidence that you gave.As I said at the beginning of the meeting, we will examine the matter again at our meeting on 1 December and then decide on our recommendations. We have to find out the parameters of what we can suggest and who we should make suggestions to. You are welcome to stay and listen to the other submissions, or you may escape."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 286045,
      "EditedText": "Could the picture be passed round?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 286046,
      "EditedText": "Yes.While we are waiting for the next witnesses to come in, it would be useful if I told committee members that when I visited the hospital, there was a mix of accommodation and buildings, some of which looked as if they were new and had not been used much before they were closed down. On the other hand, areas such as the stroke unit looked as if they could do with some investment. Obviously, that is a lay person's point of view.Members might have the impression that the hospital is falling down. In no way is it dilapidated. It suffers from some of the problems that all older hospitals suffer from. It is well spread out. We should ask the health board and the trust for their views on the points that were raised by the staff about the possibility of using the site for changing health care needs. There is a dubiety between the staff's submission that the site could be used with minimum investment and the trust's view that massive investment of about £10 million is needed.Our next set of witnesses is here. They are from Brechin and District Patients Association and Angus and Mearns Action to Save Stracathro. Welcome to all of you.We will kick off with questions. So far, we have focused on matters such as consultation—or the lack of it. You are coming at this subject from a patient-centred viewpoint. In Scotland, we hope to have a patient-centred health service, so you will probably be asked some questions relating to services. Your submission was good in pinpointing some of the practical day-to-day results, or possible results, of some of the changes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 286049,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the local health council. Was there formal consultation with that council, which is supposed to represent the public in such matters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 286056,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for interrupting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 286057,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a point about representation. The only consultation has been the review meetings. We wrote to the trust and to the health board to request a meeting in Montrose, or more particularly, in the Mearns—Stracathro covers quite a large proportion of the Mearns. We were refused by both of them, so Angus and Mearns Action to Save Stracathro was formed to represent all the various bodies throughout Angus and the Mearns. No reason was given for the refusal other than that the trust and the health board felt that the area was covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286059",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Wood: ",
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      "ContributionID": 286059,
      "EditedText": "In writing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286062",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 286062,
      "EditedText": "Who sent the letter? Was it the board?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 286063,
      "EditedText": "If my memory serves me correctly, the letter came from Paul White, but do not hold me to that. It was sent on behalf of the trust."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C286064",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 286064,
      "EditedText": "I have two lines of questioning. The first follows on from the staff committee's submission. Is it your view that what is happening at Stracathro is merely a symptom of a much deeper malaise in the health board and in the trust that has lasted for a number of years? There is some suggestion of bad management and bad policy making. What is your view?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C286069",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ronald Macdonald (Brechin and District Patients Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 286069,
      "EditedText": "The term \"new hospital\" is lovely. The man in the street thinks, \"A new hospital? That will be like Stracathro or Ninewells.\" The reality is that what is planned is an ambulatory and diagnostic centre, perhaps with a community resource centre attached. According to the board's papers from Wednesday, medicine would be reduced to low-dependency admissions, run by general practitioners. Some day cases would be taken. There would also be some \"step down\" surgery—people coming from Ninewells—and rehabilitation. Surgery would deal with some day cases, some \"step down\" surgery and some rehabilitation. The papers stated that provision for care of the elderly would have to be assessed and might include a stroke rehabilitation unit. There would be palliative care for medical and surgical cases. The accident and emergency unit at Stracathro would become a minor injuries unit staffed by nurses. The outpatients department would become a one-stop clinic. Diagnostics would offer plain X-ray film, ultrasound and barium meals, but provision of a computed tomography scanner and a magnetic resonance imaging scanner would have to be assessed. Analysis of what that means shows, however, that cardiac medicine, including the coronary care unit, dermatology, endocrinology, metabolics, gastroenterology and renal and respiratory medicine would be taken away from Angus. It is death by a thousand cuts; it is like going through the jungle with a machete. General surgery, including emergency and elective surgery, breast, colo-rectal, dental, endocrine, ear, nose and throat/ oral, gynaecological and vascular surgery, would all be taken away. Elective and trauma orthopaedic surgery would go. In oncology, chemotherapy would go. As I said, the provision of care of the elderly, including a stroke rehabilitation unit, would depend on the outcome of the assessment. I have already mentioned what would happen to the accident and emergency department. The laboratory service would be reduced to a hot lab and actual diagnostic services would be subject to discussion. That is only a glimpse of what the health board might provide in a \"new hospital\". It would be an acute ambulatory care centre, not a hospital in the way that that is understood by the public. People think that the board is not so bad, but the new hospital would be very different from what people imagine—it all depends on what you think constitutes a hospital."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Mowatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 286072,
      "EditedText": "It would be a severe reduction in services. Ronald has just read out all the services that would be removed from Angus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ronald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 286075,
      "EditedText": "I have a copy of the report here, which I will make available to the committee. The latest board documentation follows on from that report. Agenda Consulting was commissioned by the former Angus NHS Trust to do the report. Agenda Consulting is now playing an active part on Tayside Health Board. People do not spend a lot of money getting a report such as this done only to throw it in the dustbin. The report is still continuing, and if it were not for ferreting—I am nicknamed the ferret by the way, in connection with getting information from the health board—we would not know about it. There must be openness and transparency, the public have a right to know and the board and the trust have a duty to ensure that the public get that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ronald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 286081,
      "EditedText": "They have learned the importance of communication. Communication is an asset in any organisation. Having spent 30 years in the health service, and having worked at Vernonholme, communication has always been my maxim. If you do not communicate, nobody knows what you are doing. You cannot have a secret service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 286082,
      "EditedText": "Can I make a point about the ambulance? It is relevant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 286083,
      "EditedText": "Kay Ullrich can ask her question—it might include other issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 286084,
      "EditedText": "In your answer to Mary Scanlon, you mentioned the ambulance service. I have to say that in the submission by AMASS, that was the issue that stood out for me. Given that 25 per cent of the population are elderly, I am concerned not only about future ambulance provision—is it adequate at present for people who currently have to go to Ninewells?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 286086,
      "EditedText": "Elderly people tend not to be car owners or car drivers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 286091,
      "EditedText": "Just a little bit older."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andrew Welsh (Angus) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 286095,
      "EditedText": "You have read out a catalogue of cutbacks and closures. Will you give us an idea of the consequences for the local population, in terms of employment and facilities, if the closure goes ahead?Has the ambulance problem been addressed by any of the authorities involved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Myles (Angus and Mearns Action to Save Stracathro): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 286096,
      "EditedText": "I will answer that question, as I am the local councillor for the area. Stracathro is one of the major employers in the north of Angus. It provides direct employment for the staff working there and additional employment for services for those staff. If Stracathro hospital were to be closed, it would have a devastating effect on the north Angus population.There could be an increase in ambulance services, but that is not happening. Social work and police services are all stretched to the limit—they have to go to Ninewells because of the removal of many of the services that were at Stracathro. Those services are all stretched and are finding it difficult to continue to give the support that is required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Mowatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 286098,
      "EditedText": "The relationship is not unfriendly. At one point, a member of our committee was a member of the health council. It has not been possible for us to attend those meetings. For a start, we have not known when they take place, and because the council covers the whole of Tayside, the meetings can be a significant distance away, for example, in Pitlochry. It has therefore not been possible for us to attend health council meetings to any great extent. I have made it clear in the past that I do not in any way castigate the health council. It has an extremely difficult job because of the amount of work that it has to do and the few members that it has. It receives a huge amount of paperwork and submissions from the health authorities. On consultation, on 1 April when the two new trusts were set up, contrary to the way in which Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust has carried on, Tayside Primary Care NHS Trust almost immediately offered to meet us at the Brechin and District Patients Association. It did so, and we agreed to meet every six months. I spoke to the chairman's secretary the other day: she said that we would have to arrange a further meeting. The primary care trust certainly seems to understand communication; I do not think that the acute trust does. I am much more cynical than Ronald Macdonald—I do not think that the acute trust has learned its lesson on communication; there is an arrogance in the health service, particularly in acute care. One thing that is not taken on board—apart from straightforward communication—is the fact that, whatever those people think as clinicians, they must, in a democracy, take on board what the public want. If the public say, \"This is what we want,\" that must be given attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 286101,
      "EditedText": "As Hugh Henry says, we will probably return to the whole issue of health boards in the health service—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Myles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 286108,
      "EditedText": "It has given us no assurance about any more money to cover the increase in the ambulance service. Funding for all the extra costs will be expected to be found from—I do not know, there is nowhere. There has been no provision for the increased cost of patients going to Ninewells hospital and back. I do not know where everybody is expected to find all the extra money from.Access to Stracathro is excellent, from all directions. The service provided at the hospital in Aberdeen can be supplemented by taking cases from there to Stracathro just as easily as cases can be transferred from Dundee or Perth. With the new flyover on the A90, the access is second to none, and there are no traffic congestion problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C286110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 286110,
      "EditedText": "I tried to get the Jones report, as you know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett (Tayside Health Board): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 286112,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, convener. I will not introduce my colleagues now, as time is short, except to say that I am accompanied by Miss Jeanette McMillan, also from Tayside Health Board.The health board has responsibility for assessing the health needs of the whole population of Tayside, which is 390,000 people. The Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust provides services to an additional population from north Fife and south Grampian, covering a total population of 450,000. Tayside Health Board spends about £180 million a year on acute services, which is slightly above the Scottish average. As you may be aware, the board will be a loser under the Arbuthnott report's recommendations, if they are accepted. Acute secondary services are provided in Tayside from three main sites: Perth royal infirmary, Ninewells hospital in Dundee and Stracathro hospital in Angus. The trust provides a comprehensive range of services from those sites, with the exception of cardiothoracic and specialist children's services. Most of the regional in-patient services are provided at Ninewells, but there is an extensive network of out-patient services across Tayside, for example in Pitlochry, Brechin, Crieff and all the Angus towns. Waiting times are close to the Scottish average and we have made good progress in meeting the Government's waiting list targets. Tayside Health Board provides high quality services, but we have some of the highest rates of referral and treatment in many of our specialties, compared with the rest of Scotland. Tayside Health Board is one of a number of health boards that are currently undertaking an acute services review following the publication in 1998 of Sir David Carter's national acute services review.The board decided that there was a need to undertake a local review of acute services and to examine our requirement for acute services over the next 10 years. In my submission to the committee I have set out the remit of the review, which will ensure that the people of Tayside and Fife are offered the highest quality of health care within the resources available to us. It will consider the nature and range of emergency and non-emergency care that will be delivered in various sites in Tayside, including the location and distribution of in-patient, day-case, out-patient and support services. We need to consider the role and impact of new methods of care delivery, including information technologies and the emerging new medical technologies. We must also consider the provision, type and location of community services. The review is about examining the nature of all the health services in Tayside, not just acute hospital services. We must consider the whole range, from referral from general practitioners into hospital and back into the community for rehabilitation and follow-up care. The review has been clinically led by Professor Roland Jung, and nearly 200 clinicians from both primary and secondary care have been involved in the process. The results of the review will be presented to the health board in the middle of December. It will contain a number of strategic options. No decisions have been made on any aspect of the review at this time and the board will need to evaluate them. Those strategic options will then be the subject of formal public consultation next year. The health board's role is to ensure that we provide safe and effective services to the whole of the Tayside population."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C286117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 286117,
      "EditedText": "A meeting was refused in Montrose and the Mearns. Were there any other areas that asked for a meeting and did not get one? Will they get one at the next stage of the consultation process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 286118,
      "EditedText": "We had requests from Montrose and from Crieff, in Perthshire. We felt that we were spending a lot of time and energy on meetings. We have issued 100,000 leaflets and invited people to write in, and we have involved the health council heavily in the whole process. We are also undertaking a survey of public opinion on health issues across the whole region. I expect that, in the new year, there will be meetings in Montrose and Crieff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 286119,
      "EditedText": "The consultation with staff took place over an extended period of about six weeks and resulted in a change in the proposed plans for the hospital. Alternative plans were put forward by the staff, and Mr Townell, the associate medical director, led staff in considering them. As a result of that consultation period, from August to the beginning of October, the plans were modified to those that we are now implementing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 286127,
      "EditedText": "We are not doing it separately. We spoke to staff when the initial ideas for changes in service were developed. It would not have been possible to speak to staff before that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 286129,
      "EditedText": "We needed a plan to develop some idea of—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 286131,
      "EditedText": "That was not our approach. An initial idea about a change in configuration was developed by Stracathro hospital staff into the series of plans that are set out in the document before you: five options for surgery and three for medicine. Mr Townell will confirm that the staff consultation took account of the required changes and the possible impact on jobs for Stracathro staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 286133,
      "EditedText": "That information came out as part of the plans."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 286139,
      "EditedText": "The Stracathro staff action committee submission also says:\"It is minuted that the Joint Consultative Committee of Tayside Health Board on 2/9/99 discussed the ‘proposed closure of Stracathro hospital'.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 286140,
      "EditedText": "Those words were used by staff members of that group. We have made it clear in every meeting that no decision has been made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 286141,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that the medical director of Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust has been making personal statements that Stracathro will close within 18 months?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 286142,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that Dr Maclean has made that statement. He has not taken any active part in the acute services review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 286154,
      "EditedText": "I understand the financial issues and I understand the bed occupancy problems, which have been graphically described. What were the safety issues that led you to make these closure proposals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 286157,
      "EditedText": "I was not in Tayside at that time—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 286158,
      "EditedText": "I am asking the health board that question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 286164,
      "EditedText": "I wish to pursue that point. From my reading of these submissions, it appears that you have pursued negative issues, such as ward amalgamations or the closure of the stroke rehabilitation unit, merging the unit with other services. However, when the short-life working groups have proposed taking on staff or making a variety of changes, including changes to the water system, such proposals have not been followed through. While you are pursuing negative suggestions, you do not seem to be following through positive suggestions that might maintain, or even improve, services at Stracathro. You present a very negative picture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 286169,
      "EditedText": "As I indicated in the written report, the decisions on the acute services review are unlikely to be made until May next year at the earliest. If there is political scrutiny of the bill, the decisions will not be made before the latter half of next year. It is impossible for us to sustain safe clinical services without making some changes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C286170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 286170,
      "EditedText": "That gives the impression that you are making the cuts so that, when the review comes round, it will be too expensive to go back on what you have done. It looks like you are trying to run down the hospital."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C286172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 286172,
      "EditedText": "Will starting up the services again not cost a disproportionately high amount? That will be a disincentive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C286174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 286174,
      "EditedText": "I want to establish the level of the competence of the management and the consultation programme. The trust's submission says:\"In the period, senior medical staff from both Ninewells and Stracathro made clear their grave concerns about the sustainability and safety of medical services in Stracathro hospital\".When I questioned staff, I found out that they had never been approached by members of their senior medical staff to say that they had concerns for Stracathro. Do you not find it odd that senior medical staff would not talk to other members of staff before going to the board? Who were the senior medical staff who came to you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 286177,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C286180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 286180,
      "EditedText": "Did you do that after the senior medical staff had come to see you? Given that it was a major issue, did you not think to call a staff meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lesley Summerhill (Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 286182,
      "EditedText": "Many of the things that you have said that managers are responsible for are correct. When the consultants in Stracathro brought their concerns to the new trust, Paul White immediately set up a working group to look at how we could address those concerns and continue to sustain services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lesley Summerhill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 286184,
      "EditedText": "Yes. There were also general practitioners from Angus and consultants from Dundee and Perth. We also had representatives from the local health council. The working party's remit was to consider ways of sustaining safe services in Stracathro. That cannot be done overnight. The fact is that activity in the wards was low. Nursing staff, particularly the nurses in the surgical unit, had small numbers of patients to deal with and were concerned about losing their skills. Many of them left the hospital because of that concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 286186,
      "EditedText": "We have been responsible for Stracathro for eight months, not 15 years. We could only do the best that we could with the situation that we inherited on 1 April. Those of us in the trust have worked extremely hard to bring about stability. We inherited a situation that none of us would have chosen to start from, but we have tried to make the best of it. I recognise that there is uncertainty and mistrust, but that has built up over many years and cannot be changed overnight. I had never worked in Angus before and it was difficult to build up trust in a short period of time when the hospital was facing a crisis.Communication is a major issue in a hospital with 7,500 staff. We can always work to improve it. I have a lot of empathy for the staff at Stracathro and I would like the committee to recognise that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 286193,
      "EditedText": "You said that Dr Maclean's was an individual view. However, he is part of the trust board and surely the organisation of the health service involves corporate objectives and responsibility. What action have you taken against that individual, given that he expressed a view—to the press, staff and patient organisations—that has destabilised your trust board?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 286197,
      "EditedText": "No. The comments continue to be made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 286199,
      "EditedText": "Not as a member of the trust board, who receives his salary from public funds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 286200,
      "EditedText": "The trust board will not make the decision on the acute services review. We have a right—and a responsibility—to make decisions for operational issues within the trust. Dr Maclean, as a member of the trust board, will be party to information that we receive at board meetings and will participate in the process, using that evidence. He will help the board to make objective decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 286202,
      "EditedText": "The board has a corporate responsibility, which binds all the individuals to corporate decisions about the trust."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 544.0,
      "ContributionID": 286206,
      "EditedText": "It was a private meeting, yet that crucial information was withheld from MSPs, who were there to be briefed. That is hardly the way to go about consultation.In the past seven months, how many Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust board meetings have been held in public?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "ContributionID": 286207,
      "EditedText": "All our health board meetings have been held in public. The trust board initially decided that it would alternate its board meetings, bimonthly, with the meetings of its policy and resources committee. Tomorrow, the trust board will consider an amendment to the standing orders to allow it to hold its board meetings monthly, except during periods of recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ContributionID": 286208,
      "EditedText": "In the past few months, how many have been held in public?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 286214,
      "EditedText": "So you commissioned it, and it was designed to inform the hospital trust as it approached problems such as Stracathro. Are you aware of the view, expressed in the Jones report, that\"there is no status quo option or an option that requires no investment of capital\"?You said that infrastructure is needed desperately at Stracathro, so why has the trust failed to invest in Stracathro's capital budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ContributionID": 286218,
      "EditedText": "I put it to you that your failure to invest is pre-empting the decision of the acute services review.If, as has been said, the buildings are in a bad state, why has Tayside Health Board allowed that to happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 573.0,
      "ContributionID": 286220,
      "EditedText": "Do you endorse the current plans, which are inadequate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 575.0,
      "ContributionID": 286221,
      "EditedText": "That will have to be your final question, Andrew."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 577.0,
      "ContributionID": 286222,
      "EditedText": "Certainly, the capital is inadequate but, as I am sure you will appreciate, the trust—with our support—has to approach the Scottish Executive for capital funds. I cannot imagine that the Scottish Executive would approve the release of significant capital funds until we have resolved the future nature of acute services in Tayside."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 609.0,
      "ContributionID": 286238,
      "EditedText": "Can you answer my question about the suspensions and the utilisation of staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 611.0,
      "ContributionID": 286239,
      "EditedText": "We will make that the final question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 613.0,
      "ContributionID": 286240,
      "EditedText": "The suspension of which staff in particular?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard (Stracathro Hospital Staff Action Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 285942,
      "EditedText": "There has been very little contact with staff members. The first that we heard of any changes or ward closures was through The Courier & Advertiser on 23 August. The Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust held a meeting the day after to inform staff officially of the closures and changes that were about to take place. At that time, there was little or no union representation or involvement; that has improved slightly, but not as much as we would like."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 285943,
      "EditedText": "As a member of an organisation on the staff side, you will be aware of the partnership ethos that is supposed to exist in the national health service following the publication last year of the human resources strategy document \"Towards a New Way of Working\". Do you believe that that document has been central to the consultation process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 285945,
      "EditedText": "Has anyone suggested that there should be a partnership forum in which to discuss issues emanating from the health improvement plan or the trust improvement plan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 285947,
      "EditedText": "In this case, were staff organisations consulted before any announcement was made?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 285950,
      "EditedText": "Not at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville (Stracathro Hospital Staff Action Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 285954,
      "EditedText": "Many of the nursing staff at Stracathro are trained in extended roles, which has been a great strength. However, because staff are now very uncertain about their future, they are having to consider leaving and finding jobs elsewhere. All that unrest among staff is a great disincentive. We are now concerned that we will not have sufficient staff to maintain a safe service at Stracathro."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 285956,
      "EditedText": "That is the way that things are going. It will be a fait accompli and Stracathro will not be able to be maintained. We have come here to ask you to intervene to ensure that that does not happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 285957,
      "EditedText": "Do you want services at Stracathro to be restored to the level of five—if not more than five—years ago?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 285958,
      "EditedText": "We are very keen for Stracathro to be a pilot that could show a way ahead for health provision in the future. Research shows that having huge hospitals—almost factory farms—supplying health provision is not a good way of doing things. Large hospitals can have safety problems if patients have to be evacuated, and there can be terrible problems such as cross-infection and the build-up of germs. Modern research indicates that hospitals should have flat, one-storey layouts, with segregated units. Stracathro is ideally suited for that. It would be an economically viable proposition to make it such a pilot. Moreover, our situation would be improved if the big five teaching hospitals were considered separately from the smaller ones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 285959,
      "EditedText": "I do not understand. I know what you are saying about the suitability of the building and the layout. However, at least one of the submissions that we have received has specified the services that have been lost. Indeed, several of the documents refer to a decline in services at Stracathro over five years. Are you asking for all the services that have been lost over the past five years to be restored and for services at the hospital to be returned to the level at which they were several years ago?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 285964,
      "EditedText": "What would the cost of that be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 285965,
      "EditedText": "Before the surgical services were lost, it was more financially viable to treat patients for those operations at Stracathro than at Dundee. There is now the added financial burden on the ambulance service of transferring people from the area of Angus and lower Mearns to Ninewells. I think that the cost was £756 less per case to treat a patient at Stracathro than at Ninewells for a similar surgical procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 285971,
      "EditedText": "That is true: there is a conflict. The board is saying clearly and repeatedly that no decisions will be made until the acute services review is published. However, the medical director of the trust has said on several occasions that he hopes that Stracathro will close within the next 18 months. The fact that long-term contracts have not been awarded—which means that valuable consultants have been lost—bears that out. There is a hidden agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 285975,
      "EditedText": "Exactly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 285981,
      "EditedText": "I open up the questioning. Margaret, do you have a supplementary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 285987,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 285990,
      "EditedText": "In another submission, it was mentioned that senior medical staff in Stracathro had made it clear, at the beginning of this year, that they had concerns about the sustainability and safety of medical facilities at Stracathro. Did any of the senior medical staff approach you with those concerns this year or last year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 285991,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 285992,
      "EditedText": "In view of the nursing shortages and the lack of consultants, do you doubt the safety of clinical services now and in the near future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 285993,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 285994,
      "EditedText": "I want to go back briefly to the issue of consultation—we are concentrating on the procedures that were adopted. Are you saying that consultation did not take place or that the consultation that took place was bad, with confusing information and so on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 285997,
      "EditedText": "The minimal consultation that has taken place has consisted of meetings of perhaps an hour here and there with nursing staff. There was consultation only after the trust was pushed into a situation in which it had to consult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C286000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 286000,
      "EditedText": "What about the detailed written information that the trust says was provided to staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 286007,
      "EditedText": "During that year, Angus NHS Trust still had legal responsibility for maintaining the human resource strategy of the Scottish health service. Was there consultation between staff and that trust? As Kay Ullrich said, the process appears to be death by a thousand cuts. It seems that the process has been going on for a considerable time and was accelerated by the suspension of the surgeons in August 1998. Were you adequately consulted about the consequence of the suspension, especially on surgical services?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 286009,
      "EditedText": "Was there discussion of where the patients that had been admitted would go?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 286010,
      "EditedText": "No. One ward—ward 13, a receiving orthopaedic ward—was closed under Angus NHS Trust. Staff were moved down to the general surgical unit to allow the ward to be refurbished, but two weeks after they had been told that they would be moved back to the ward, they were informed that it was no longer viable to keep the ward open. There was no consultation in that period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 286011,
      "EditedText": "Was it your perception that a move that had been a reasonable temporary arrangement to allow refurbishment turned out to be permanent? Did you feel that that was representative of the consultation process and that, rather than being involved, you learned about things as they unfolded?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 286015,
      "EditedText": "Surely if one values a service, one goes out of one's way to ensure that it is maintained. That has simply not been the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 286021,
      "EditedText": "That is very clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 286022,
      "EditedText": "I have a brief question on consultation, and then one on finances.Tayside Health Board tells us that its review process is fully inclusive of all stakeholders, including\"clinicians, general practitioners, both local trusts, three local authorities, Tayside Health Council, Universities and Tayside Health Board.\"It is highly commendable that your petition has more than 25,000 signatures. Did you feel that the voice of patients and staff was not being heard through any of those groups?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 286025,
      "EditedText": "Before you answer that question, could we try to keep the answers brief, so that we can take the extra question from Keith Raffan before the end of the session?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 286029,
      "EditedText": "Your written submission includes some figures on the costs of surgical treatment at Stracathro compared with Ninewells."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 286031,
      "EditedText": "Your guess is as good as ours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C286032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 286032,
      "EditedText": "So no information at all has been given to you about consultation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 286039,
      "EditedText": "When you bear in mind the fact that 20 to 30 per cent of the cost of a new hospital is in buying the site, it seems strange to consider buying a site when you have one already, and when a flyover from a main dual carriageway is already in place, with easy access to the north and south."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 286040,
      "EditedText": "The location of the hospital is not the concern; it is the services that it provides and the maintenance of those services. That is what is being eroded. The talk of new hospitals being here, there and everywhere in Angus is separating people. At the end of the day, the services provided by the new hospital and those that are provided now would not be the same, so there would be a loss. That is our concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Wood (Angus and Mearns Action to Save Stracathro): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 286053,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 286054,
      "EditedText": "Are those the only representatives of the health council on the two groups considering the acute services review in Tayside?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 286047,
      "EditedText": "In your submission, you indicated the level of service that there was, is and should be. With regard to consultation with the health board on shaping the services, and with the trust on how it would meet the objectives of the health board, were you, as patient organisations, consulted, or was there consultation with other groups?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 286055,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 286058,
      "EditedText": "Did you receive the refusal verbally or in writing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 286061,
      "EditedText": "No. All they said was that they felt that all areas were covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Mowatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 286070,
      "EditedText": "In short, the reality of what is being offered is a Stracathro that is a shadow of its former self. It would be a diagnostic centre with ambulatory patients, with an enhanced community hospital elsewhere in Angus—an enhanced infirmary, if you like."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ronald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 286079,
      "EditedText": "I refer to the question about regaining trust in the health board. We will have to wait and see what its next review says. There will be a community services review now that the acute services review has finished. In June, there will be a combined acute services and community care review. By that time, I do not know whether there will be any trust left to regain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 286080,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that the trust and the health board have learned any lessons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 286087,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 286092,
      "EditedText": "The Brechin Advertiser says that when it sought corroboration from the two members of the association,\"we were informed that this was, at best, an over exaggeration.\"So you were not much more positive after meeting Dr McLean?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 286099,
      "EditedText": "I have assurances—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 286103,
      "EditedText": "Three other members want to make points and we are already five minutes over our time. I am sure that you understand that we want to talk to the health board and the health trust in the time that is available.Ben Wallace and Brian Adam have assured me that they have short points, so I will ask them both to make those and then wait for them to be answered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 286107,
      "EditedText": "I think that Mr Welsh could answer that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ronald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 286109,
      "EditedText": "The Jones No 1 report recommended the immediate planned closure of various departments and their integration into other trust buildings. That would cause immediate public uproar, but a gradual phasing-in should overcome that. I asked Paul White the specific question about trusts at a meeting in Brechin City Hall. His response from the platform was that the document had no life—it was dead. It would appear from what was originally thought that, until now, closure has almost been phased in, in a sense. I maintain that there is a hidden agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 286111,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid that I will have to close this part of the meeting. We could ask you a lot more questions, but time has caught up with us. I thank you, gentlemen, for your oral and advance written submissions to this meeting. We will examine this matter again at our next meeting on 1 December—we are simply taking evidence from witnesses this morning. Thank you for your time.We will now hear witnesses from Tayside Health Board and Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust. I welcome you to the Health and Community Care Committee. You have asked to make a short submission each. We have time only for very short submissions, but I think that a couple of minutes each will be acceptable. We will then have a series of questions. In answering the questions, I ask you to be as concise as possible. I ask the representatives of the health board to kick off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 286113,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We shall now hear a short contribution from Paul White of the Tayside acute trust, before asking questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 286123,
      "EditedText": "There were, and they were led jointly by the director of HR, Peter Murphy, and the then general manager of Stracathro hospital, Ann Pearson. The role of the associate medical director, Mr Townell, was to consider from a clinical perspective the possibilities for reconfiguration in Stracathro hospital, as distinct from the implementation of those proposals, which is where the general manager and the HR director were involved in discussions with staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 286126,
      "EditedText": "So why are you doing it separately?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 286130,
      "EditedText": "The HR strategy document on the NHS in Scotland called \"Towards a New Way of Working\" is emphatic that staff should be involved from the planning stage right through the process. You seem to be saying that your approach is to formulate the plans and then consult the staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Townell (Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 286135,
      "EditedText": "I would like to answer that question. I am primarily a urological surgeon, not a politician, and have been affected by this situation in Angus as well as the rest of the staff. We all feel great distress at the long-perceived continual threat of possible closures in Angus—where I have worked for 15 years—from all sorts of areas such as the Scottish Office and even the NHS in London. The threats have created paranoia about the closures, which has been spelt out in some of the submissions—for example in the phrase \"death by a thousand cuts\".Let me make my position clear as a surgeon, not as a politician. I became associate medical director only in October, purely to co-ordinate and continue the changes, and I found that the wards were basically half full. Because medical staff had left and the two suspended surgeons had remained on the payroll, it was not possible to re-appoint consultants in a fixed capacity. That raises significant health care issues. Patients admitted in acute surgical circumstances are being treated by locums whom GPs do not know—GPs usually refer patients to surgeons they know—and who may or may not be good. As a surgeon who stayed at Stracathro where two colleagues had been suspended, how could I look after a hospital that was regularly being staffed by people who were coming in from outside on a temporary basis? That is an issue for Government.Staff morale has declined because of the history of the situation and the fact that services have been taken away from the hospital. Everyone can see that. Because the wards were partially full, the nurses said that they were being deskilled. As a result, the atmosphere was not good and nurses were leaving. That nasty background goes back before 1996. Even when I arrived at the hospital, someone said that I would be there only three years anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 286136,
      "EditedText": "I want to stop you there. We are really tight for time and I have eight or nine colleagues who want to ask specific questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 286137,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased that Mr Brett wants to examine the whole range of health services in Tayside, because two areas of concern raised in the submissions suggest that such a review should happen. The first is the financial crisis over Tayside Health Board's £12 million deficit. The feeling is that Stracathro is paying more than its fair share for the deficit.Furthermore, a submission from Stracathro staff action committee says:\"The Chairman and Chief Executive of Tayside Health Board have repeatedly stated that no decisions will be taken about the future of Stracathro until the acute services review is published. The Medical Director of Tayside University Hospital Trust has said that Stracathro will close within eighteen months\".Will you comment on both those areas of concern?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 286138,
      "EditedText": "In answer to your second question, Tayside Health Board has not yet received any proposals about the future of acute services in Tayside, including Stracathro. Although I am aware that Dr Derek Maclean has made his personal views known in the past, the matter will be decided by the health board and the minister. I hope that that clarifies the point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 286143,
      "EditedText": "Will you now answer my first question about Stracathro bearing the burden of a deficit through no fault of its own?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 286146,
      "EditedText": "We expect both of our trusts, particularly the university hospitals trust, to provide safe and efficient services. However, if they can provide those services and still make savings, we expect them to do so, as long as there is no change to the location or volume of services. Tayside Health Board carefully examined the trusts' proposals. We asked them a number of questions and were satisfied that their actions would meet our requirements and would not compromise the acute services review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 286148,
      "EditedText": "Stracathro hospital is not bearing the brunt of meeting the trust's £12 million deficit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 286150,
      "EditedText": "The changes were clinically driven, but we also need to make financial reductions in the costs of services. We are responsible for living within the resources given by this Parliament and voted in the current year by Westminster. The trust board has a dual responsibility to provide safe clinical care, but within the resources that it has been given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 286155,
      "EditedText": "The safety issues go back to the previous year, when surgical staff were suspended and the clinical care of major surgery, cancer and intensive care patients, for example, was transferred to Ninewells hospital. The resources to care for those patients—the nurses at Stracathro hospital and some of the other costs associated with that care—did not transfer at that time. Ninewells hospital was left to provide care for the transferred Angus patients without resources transferring at the same time. We are belatedly switching those resources to where the patient care is now being delivered. That was the key safety issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 286156,
      "EditedText": "Was that decided when the surgeons were suspended? That was the point at which things really started to go downhill. At that time, did the board and the trust determine a strategy to cope with the situation in the medium to long term? In other words, was there a plan that was discussed with the staff as to what was going to happen after the two surgeons had been suspended, in terms of locum replacements or whatever?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 286160,
      "EditedText": "That does not really answer my question. The surgeons were suspended in August 1998 and that is the point at which the situation started to go badly wrong—no one could have foreseen that. At that point, what was the medium-term strategy? I understand the immediate strategy, as you had no choice but to transfer patients to Ninewells. However, the situation was then allowed to drift on into the acute services review, which Stracathro then perceives as the permanent removal of those services. What medium-term strategy—on which you had consulted—did you have for those services?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 286161,
      "EditedText": "As Mr White indicated, the medium-term strategy was that consultants from Ninewells agreed to go up to provide services at Stracathro. We faced the difficulty that we had no idea how long it would take to carry out the review and to come to a conclusion about the two surgeons. At the time, everyone thought that those situations would be finalised much quicker than they were."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 286163,
      "EditedText": "At the time, changes were made in emergency surgery and major surgery in particular, which had to transferred—immediate decisions had to be taken. Consequently, some emergency medical care also had to be transferred into Dundee. The board and the trust have tried jointly to stabilise and maintain the situation at Stracathro until the acute services review produces its recommendations in a few weeks' time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 286165,
      "EditedText": "I will try to correct that impression, as it is wrong. The positive side is that we have asked consultant staff from Ninewells hospital to go out and support services at Stracathro. As a trust, we were very concerned about the quality of care and the sustainability of services at Stracathro, where we were engaging a lot of locum staff to cover the senior medical posts. The trusts endeavoured unsuccessfully to attract permanent staff to radiologist posts—people were not attracted to those jobs. There is a scarcity of staff in many specialities around Scotland and therefore people can choose which job they want to go to. I would be concerned if the committee left the meeting with the view that we have done only negative things, as that is absolutely not the case. Even if we had decided to install the computed tomography, or CT, scanner in April, we would have had to go to the European journals to advertise competitively, because of the scanner's cost, and that would be just to buy it. The installation costs would have been about £300,000 to £400,000. The running costs to keep the scanner going 24 hours a day—there is no point having it unless it covers emergencies—would have been in excess of £500,000 per annum. As I indicated, we are under severe pressure to maintain the existing service base, and cannot expand it.The infrastructure at Stracathro, as the Angus GPs indicated, requires significant investment. The hospital has no piped sewage or water. I am aware that Andrew Welsh has asked many questions in the Parliament about the state of the infrastructure in Angus—the infrastructure is awful, terrible. Ward 8, where the stroke patients were being looked after, is an appalling environment in which to care for patients. The trust is concerned about these issues and is trying to do something about them. I do not want it to be said that we are not concerned and that we do not want to take positive measures to help the hospital."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 286166,
      "EditedText": "There is an endowment fund of almost £1 million, which could have been spent on the stroke unit, but which was not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 286167,
      "EditedText": "That is correct, but I think that that was the right decision. It would have been crazy if we had spent almost £1 million of publicly donated money on a ward when the future of the hospital is still uncertain. Members: \"Aha\". I am not trying to make any secret about this—the future of Stracathro has been uncertain for 20 years. I am desperately anxious to get a decision about the hospital's future. If it is to have a future in Angus, we must invest in it. We cannot continue to provide patient care at Stracathro without investing in the infrastructure. That would not be acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 286171,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate how that impression has arisen, but I repeat that none of the changes is irreversible. However, we need investment in the infrastructure if the hospital is to continue to serve the area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 286173,
      "EditedText": "There would no more of a disincentive to invest in the hospital then than there is now. We are doing nothing to devalue the present infrastructure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 286175,
      "EditedText": "One of the physicians and one of the orthopaedic surgeons, as well as some of the senior consultants from Ninewells who had worked at Stracathro during the interim period that Mr Brett referred to. They were concerned about the quality of care at the hospital and the suggestion that major surgery might be reinstated despite the absence of CT scanning and intensive care, both of which the Royal College of Surgeons recommends as prerequisites for safe clinical practice for major surgery."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 286179,
      "EditedText": "We met the staff collectively and I have been through the wards many times to speak to the staff individually."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 286181,
      "EditedText": "I would like to bring in Lesley Summerhill, who is the director of nursing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C286189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 286189,
      "EditedText": "Will he be involved in any way, such as in an advisory capacity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 286190,
      "EditedText": "He is not part of the review process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 286195,
      "EditedText": "Undermining it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 286196,
      "EditedText": "I do not think so. As I said, Dr Maclean made those comments prior to the trust being formed—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 542.0,
      "ContributionID": 286205,
      "EditedText": "I described the consultation process earlier. We have had a number of briefings with MSPs to keep them informed. You are correct, in that no mention of cuts was made at that particular meeting. Mr White explained the circumstances behind that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 286215,
      "EditedText": "I referred to the report of the short-life working group, chaired by Dr Jones, in my written submission to the committee. The key points to come out of that report were investment and infrastructure, and the filling of the consultant posts. I have explained the difficulty we faced in attracting suitable candidates to those posts and I touched briefly on the amount of investment required for the CT scanner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ContributionID": 286216,
      "EditedText": "You said that investment was needed, but what have you actually invested? If I am correct, the trust's capital budget for 1999-2000, by project, does not even mention Stracathro hospital and the only investment that is outlined in the 1999 to 2004 implementation expenditure plan is £35,000 for a telephone exchange. You say that investment is needed desperately, but Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust has not invested in Stracathro. Why not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ContributionID": 286217,
      "EditedText": "The trust faces a constraint on its capital budget as well as its revenue. However, it would not be a prudent use of public money for us to invest in Stracathro until we are clear which elements of the hospital will be used for the future provision of health care. The Stracathro site has significant unused elements; large parts of the hospital do not undertake patient care. We need to be clear about the nature of services that will continue to be provided following the acute services review, whether any enhancement will be made to those services and what building infrastructure will be required to support them. That is the correct sequence in which to make those decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 571.0,
      "ContributionID": 286219,
      "EditedText": "Responsibility for the buildings is a matter for the trust and its predecessor organisations. Only with the recent changes that came through with \"Designed to Care\" does the health board have to endorse capital projects formally. Of course, we are concerned to ensure that the fabric and sites at all health care establishments in Tayside are of the highest quality. However, as Mr White said, it is the case—in Angus in particular, but in other parts of Tayside as well—that some facilities need to be modernised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 581.0,
      "ContributionID": 286224,
      "EditedText": "Mary Scanlon will ask the next question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 583.0,
      "ContributionID": 286225,
      "EditedText": "May I ask one final question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286226",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 585.0,
      "ContributionID": 286226,
      "EditedText": "You have asked about four. I appreciate that you have a keen interest, but we have to move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286229",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 591.0,
      "ContributionID": 286229,
      "EditedText": "The submission from the Stracathro staff action committee is a fairly damning indictment of your financial management. Can you confirm that Dr Maclean, the medical director, was given an 18 per cent salary increase to take his salary to £122,000? If he was given that increase in salary, on what basis was that given, bearing in mind the financial constraints that Stracathro is facing?My second question is this: why was the Dundee royal infirmary, a prime site, sold for only £600,000?Finally, the staff action committee says: \"High costs have been incurred as a result of suspensions and ‘gardening leave', and have required further expenditure . . . for example, a consultant in a badly-needed speciality . . . has been prevented from working for four years\".Have you utilised fully and managed appropriately the staff that you have, to retain the services at Stracathro, given that two surgeons left?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 601.0,
      "ContributionID": 286234,
      "EditedText": "The two questions focus on staff relations and whether you would do anything differently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 607.0,
      "ContributionID": 286237,
      "EditedText": "We would certainly want to review things. I have taken the point that some communities feel that we should have consulted them. We will certainly consider that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 621.0,
      "ContributionID": 286244,
      "EditedText": "I also ask the committee to agree to hear item 2 on the draft Arbuthnott report in private today. We are still working on our draft report. I hope that our final draft report meeting will be on 1 December, but this should be the final substantive meeting. I suggest that the meeting on 1 December, on the Arbuthnott report, should be taken in private session. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 285940,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. This morning we will consider a submission that we received through the Public Petitions Committee about Stracathro hospital in Angus. The hospital is a district general hospital serving Angus and part of the Mearns. It has a staff of nearly 700.This is the first time that the committee has actively considered something that has come to us via the Public Petitions Committee. The petition had more than 25,000 signatures, so the issue is obviously of great interest to the people of Angus and the Mearns.The committee has already received written evidence; this morning we will take oral evidence. I suggest that we wait until our meeting on 1 December to come back with our response, because we have other business to get through this morning.I happened to be in the locality of Stracathro hospital during the recess, and I visited it unannounced. It was a useful visit, allowing me to acquaint myself with the hospital.Members will want to raise a number of issues today. Some of the local MSPs are with us and I will let them ask questions as well if they catch my eye.We welcome our first group of witnesses, who represent the Stracathro hospital staff action committee. The staff action committee came to the Parliament several weeks ago and put their points to some of us after a meeting of this committee. This will be an opportunity for MSPs to ask the witnesses questions. Margaret Jamieson has a question on staff relations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 285946,
      "EditedText": "A staff development group was arranged in the hospital. The trust also holds consultations with the unions. However, the trust has no involvement with junior members of staff. It consults senior members of staff, but that is a recent thing. We feel that there has not been the proper consultation that is needed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 285948,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 285952,
      "EditedText": "Well, that would not be consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 285953,
      "EditedText": "A consequence of the changes that have been made at Stracathro appears to be a problem in retaining staff. Another problem—which has been highlighted by, among others, the acute trust—concerns the training of staff, especially, given the absence of consultants, junior doctors. What are your views on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 285963,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 285966,
      "EditedText": "The budget will require a certain amount to return the service to the level that you aspire to, which is the level that was achieved five years ago. Has anyone costed how much would be required for that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 285968,
      "EditedText": "You are talking about the decline that has taken place in the past five years. Your submission almost narrows it down to the past two years. Will you comment on what effect the suspension of the two surgeons had on what appears to have been a rapid decline? Your submission says that\"it is now very clear that the current financial crisis\"—a £12 million crisis, I believe—\"will determine all policy decisions\".Will you elaborate on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 285972,
      "EditedText": "Some of the other submissions that we have received suggest that there is a difficulty in recruiting throughout Stracathro—for nursing staff, ancillary staff, you name it—or, as the management puts it, in finding suitably qualified candidates. Will you elaborate on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 285973,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That has happened only within the past two years. Stracathro was well known for the fact that people were queueing up to work there. For example, two years ago, the radiology service had 80 applicants for every post. This year, when a post was advertised, there were no applicants. That is indicative of the fact that people do not see a future in Stracathro. You cannot blame people for not wanting to work there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 285974,
      "EditedText": "In effect, you are saying that it is a case of death by a thousand cuts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 285976,
      "EditedText": "I would like to say something about the recruitment of nursing staff. There was, and still is, a job freeze—there are 32 posts available within Stracathro hospital. The job freeze was introduced in May or June. Jobs were advertised in the stroke unit, in the coronary care unit and in ward 15. For a short time, the job freeze was lifted, during which time the positions that were available in those areas were advertised and suitable candidates were to be interviewed. However, those interviews were cancelled at a day's or a week's notice. The G grade within the coronary care unit was informed the same week that her interview had been cancelled.The stroke unit has experienced similar problems. There were 25 applicants for an A grade post that was advertised in that unit, so we must question whether there is a problem with recruitment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 285978,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 285979,
      "EditedText": "What effect is that having on patient care?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 285985,
      "EditedText": "The board and the trust are two separate bodies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 285986,
      "EditedText": "I am asking a specific question. Does the medical director of Stracathro sit on the trust board?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 285989,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 285995,
      "EditedText": "At the start, on 23 August, there was absolutely no consultation with unions or with members or senior members of the nursing, technical and ancillary staff.Consultation took place the day after information about ward closures was released in the press. Since then, there has been minimal consultation and the level of communication has been very poor. Technical and ancillary staff members still do not know what is happening. Ward changes and closures were supposed to take place by 1 December—that was said at the most recent meeting that the trust held with staff. It is now the end of November, but nursing and domestic staff still do not know when those changes will take place. For example, ward 8 will close, but no date has been given for that. The trust has said that it hopes to have posts for people within the next two weeks and that people will be redeployed within that period. That does not give staff much time to make arrangements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 285996,
      "EditedText": "So, in some cases, staff have not even been given minimal information. What did the minimal consultation amount to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 285998,
      "EditedText": "I am confused. The submission from Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust says quite the opposite of what you are saying—perhaps that is not a surprise to you. It says that\"since April 1999 . . . senior management have made major efforts to talk to and to support staff.\"A specific point is that\"all staff affected by change have had individual meetings to discuss alternative employment.\"More recent steps include the\"development of a partnership working agreement and change management protocol with Trade Unions\".The submission also says that efforts have stepped up a gear since 24 August 1999. The clear picture from the trust is of step-by-step consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 285999,
      "EditedText": "That is simply not true. There was a leak—I do not know where it came from—to the press on 23 August about ward closures. At 4.30 pm on that day, the trust decided to hold a meeting at 11 o'clock the next morning. If there had been proper consultation and warning, the trust would not have called a meeting at such short notice to inform staff. We were given an hour in which to ask questions. Once the meeting was over, we had to wait to find out when the ward closures would take place and what would happen to staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 286001,
      "EditedText": "Personal interviews have taken place within the past three weeks. Staff have been told that they could be redeployed within two days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 286002,
      "EditedText": "Across Tayside?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 286003,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That means that they could be redeployed as far away as Perth."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 286005,
      "EditedText": "Before the current trust came into being on 1 April, was there adequate consultation within the Stracathro trust? I take it that it was an independent trust."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 286013,
      "EditedText": "On occasion, the trust got wrong-footed and had to make policy on the hoof. That worked against the provision of services at Stracathro. The staff had to pick up the pieces as they went along."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 286014,
      "EditedText": "Clearly, the actions of the board must have been forced by the suspension of the two surgeons, as suspended surgeons cannot be replaced—certainly not by surgeons on permanent contracts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 286017,
      "EditedText": "It did after there was a bit of a furore."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 286023,
      "EditedText": "We felt that we were being ignored. We feel that the cross-party support for Stracathro—every political party in Angus and the Mearns has spoken with one voice on this issue—was totally ignored and overruled. We are here today—very frightened and nervous—to ask you to listen to the voice of everybody in our area. This cannot go on. Somebody has to listen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 286026,
      "EditedText": "Stracathro was supposed to be over its budget allocation by £750,000. That is a minimal amount compared with what is happening elsewhere. We feel strongly that Stracathro is being made to bear an unfair burden in reducing costs through a thousand cuts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 286027,
      "EditedText": "So in effect, if Stracathro were closed, it would have little effect on the overall deficit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 286028,
      "EditedText": "We believe so, and we believe that there is a strong argument for increasing services there. There is a strong argument for using that area for research into the development of services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 286033,
      "EditedText": "There will be public meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Leslie Melville: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 286043,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for hearing us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Geraldine Folkard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 286044,
      "EditedText": "Could I leave this picture of Stracathro hospital? Those who do not know the hospital could have a look at it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Mowatt (Brechin and District Patients Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 286048,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that there might have been some consultation with the local health council. However, despite repeated announcements that our patients association exists—we were established in 1991 or 1992—the health board and the authorities repeatedly ignore us. In fact, it was the secretary of a community council who informed us of the first of the few public meetings that were held on the acute services review. Consultation and communication do not seem to be words that are in the authorities' vocabulary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Mowatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 286050,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer for the council. I am not sure whether it was consulted, but I hope that it was, because its role is to be a public watchdog."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 286051,
      "EditedText": "Given that the council is a small, select group of individuals, how did it consult the wider population of the area?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Mowatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 286052,
      "EditedText": "To my knowledge, it did not contact any public group to ask for further information. That is one of our concerns. The council has a committee of 15 people across the whole of the former Tayside region: five members per former district. They have an enormous amount of ground to cover. In the area that we cover, we see ourselves as being potentially their eyes and ears, but we are never used in that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 286060,
      "EditedText": "And no reason was given?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 286065,
      "EditedText": "In my view, the situation is a complete travesty. The patients and the people concerned, who account for a quarter of the population, 70 per cent of whom are aged over 65—I am the local chairman of Age Concern—feel that the board has been accountable to no one. The Minister for Health and Community Care states continually in the press that she wants more openness. That is on record in the Scottish Parliament, but it is sadly lacking in Angus. We have been accused of scaremongering and all sorts of nasty things. All we are concerned about is keeping our hospital, which was healthy, served the community well and is on a beautiful site. Everything I read by architects says that their preference is for a flat-level, one-building site, which is what we have. The flyover has also been built. We see no reason why acute services should not continue at Stracathro. We feel that there is a hidden agenda; the health board and the trust have not been frank with us. They have not invited us to take part in any dialogue about what they are doing. The staff were given the choice of moving 20 or 30 miles away or losing their jobs in a short time. It is disgraceful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Mowatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 286066,
      "EditedText": "The thrust of Hugh Henry's question is right. There has been general malaise, which has accelerated. It started many years ago, but started to accelerate about five years ago and got into high gear two years ago. Since then, the process has accelerated. Several highly placed people within the health authorities—excuse me for using that term, but it is useful to mean the board and the trust—are on record as saying that they do not believe that there is a place for Stracathro, that they foresee the hospital closing in the long term and that the hospital does not figure in their plans."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C286067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 286067,
      "EditedText": "The committee may well come back to Frank Wood's comment about the accountability of health boards, as a trend is starting to appear.My second line of questioning follows on from an issue raised by Keith Raffan—the suggestion that there might be a new hospital in the Angus area. I have no details about that, but if it were the case, would you support the provision of a new hospital, even if it meant centralising services from existing facilities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Mowatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 286068,
      "EditedText": "A new hospital would be welcome, but we would have to look very closely at any such offer. Ronald Macdonald has detailed knowledge of the proposals made in the health board's committee papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C286071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 286071,
      "EditedText": "Would you be opposed to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C286073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 286073,
      "EditedText": "My point relates to Mr Macdonald's submission in particular. He mentions the report \"Acute Care Futures in Angus\" and talks about the poor condition of Stracathro hospital and the lack of capital investment in it. He points out in his submission that the report noted that the hospital\"had a life span of five to ten years.\"The report further noted:\"Backlog maintenance was estimated at £4.5 million.\" Given those conclusions in the report, are you certain that patient services would not be served better by change? Are you confident that patients will be better served by continuing to plough money into a building that the report tells us has a lifespan of five to 10 years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 286074,
      "EditedText": "We are coming to the end of these witnesses' time, so it would be helpful if we could speed up our questions and answers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 286076,
      "EditedText": "On consultation, Ronald Macdonald gave an example of a personal request for a copy of the report on assessing secondary care for patients in Angus, and you say in your submission that a copy of it was declined, on 11 June. Will you comment on that?The AMASS submission gives an example of a patient who left Montrose at 9 o'clock in the morning and was seen by a doctor in Ninewells at 6 o'clock at night. How do you feel that the reduction in services at Stracathro has affected the provision of service and the waiting time for people in Dundee?There has been mismanagement, a decline in morale, and lack of trust. Once this is all over and there has been a positive outcome—we hope— will it be possible for the trust and the health board to regain the trust of the patients and the people of Angus, so that there can be a working relationship that will be beneficial to all in future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ronald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 286077,
      "EditedText": "On the first question about 11 June, the reason given for my request for the Jones No 1 report being turned down was that it named names. I could not even have sight of what the general direction of the report was. I managed to get hold of the Jones No 2 report, which told me what Jones No 1 was about anyway.I refer to the example given by my colleagues in AMASS, of people leaving Montrose at 9 o'clock and not being seen until 6 o'clock in the evening. If provision at Stracathro reduces, that problem will be magnified greatly. We are having problems with the ambulances. There will have to be a major investment in ambulance services to get people to the centre. Once they have been seen, there is a backlog of people waiting for the patient ambulance to take them back. Sometimes a detour is necessary. If people stay in Montrose, they can be lucky sometimes and go via Arbroath, or they might go up the glens. If it is a bonnie day, it is not bad."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 286078,
      "EditedText": "That is where I come from—I know how bonnie it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Frank Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 286085,
      "EditedText": "The answer is no. At the moment, between 6 o'clock at night and 8 o'clock in the morning, one ambulance serves both Brechin and Montrose, which are 8 miles apart. More and more GPs are telling patients—I could give you a list of cases—that it would be quicker to take the person to Ninewells themselves. Stracathro is 12 miles from any point in Angus and Mearns, so it is 10 minutes away. The difference between that and the distance to Ninewells is frightening, and it adds to stress for elderly people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 286088,
      "EditedText": "My concern is that there is currently a problem with ambulance provision, and I would like that to be registered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 286089,
      "EditedText": "I am intrigued by a submission from the Brechin Advertiser, which refers to Stewart Mowatt and Ronald Macdonald, who are here today. Would you say that you emerged from a meeting with the trust medical director, Dr Derek McLean,\"much more positive than before our meeting took place\"?That is a quotation from Derek McLean. Is that true?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ronald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 286090,
      "EditedText": "No, we came out the same way as we went in—depressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ronald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 286093,
      "EditedText": "No, we were less positive, because he revealed that the coronary care unit survival rate at Stracathro was one of the lowest in Scotland, because it did not have clot-busting drugs. I wrote to him subsequently and asked what he was going to do about it. I do not see why people in Angus who are admitted to the coronary care unit should receive a second-class service. The service should be equal across the region."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C286094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 286094,
      "EditedText": "So you did not emerge encouraged in any way from that meeting, but Dr McLean has represented you as such.Sometimes it is on those small points that we get close to the truth."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 286097,
      "EditedText": "I will go back to the issue of consultation, as it seems to be fundamental. Your group has been established since 1991. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the local health council has not served your needs. Have you gone to the annual general meetings of the local health council? Have you attempted to get people on to the local health council? It should have been consulting you, but you should also have been involved with it. Will you tell me about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Stewart (Angus and Mearns Action to Save Stracathro): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 286100,
      "EditedText": "Just to come back to consultation: very recently, Sir William Stewart openly reported through the newspapers that all board meetings are open to the public. I would like to know how many people have known that. That is another thing that has never been offered to the different organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Mowatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 286102,
      "EditedText": "Can I immediately correct—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C286104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 286104,
      "EditedText": "The Government has a strong strategy of access. Do you see a conflict between the health boards—on the closure of Stracathro—and that policy, as far as it affects Angus and the Mearns? Secondly, the last paragraph of page 2 of Mr Macdonald's report begins:\"Correspondence received by Brechin and District Patients' Association . . . advised that:-\" and a quotation is then given. Can you tell me what correspondence that was?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 286105,
      "EditedText": "I will ask Brian Adam to put his question, and that will have to be it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C286106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 286106,
      "EditedText": "Given that there are problems already, and taking into account the new proposals, the ambulance service will have to be enhanced. Has the service indicated that it will attempt to recover any of its costs in any way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8047482+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White (Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 286114,
      "EditedText": "I want to stress that Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust supports the clinical services at Stracathro hospital. It is our responsibility to provide acute hospital and outreach services for the whole population of Tayside, including the residents of Angus.As the committee has heard this morning, there has been concern for many years among the population and the staff about the future of Stracathro hospital. There has been tension in Angus, caused by perceptions of how the health board might deal with Stracathro hospital. Over the years, the hospital has lost many services. In the past two years, further services have moved, mainly because of the loss of some consultants and the suspension of two of the surgeons, including the medical director of the trust. Those staff losses caused a shift of clinical services from Stracathro to Ninewells hospital for reasons of clinical safety.That is the background against which Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust came into being on 1 April, when it assumed responsibility for Stracathro hospital. We also inherited a significant funding shortfall from each of the three predecessor trusts, which has been exacerbated in the current year by the major increases in demand pressures to which I have referred in my written submission. The status quo was therefore not an option for the trust board. For reasons of clinical safety, for reasons of sustainability of services and because of the resource constraints on the trust, we had to make decisions about Stracathro hospital. We could not await the outcome of the acute services review, as it is likely to be well into 2000 before decisions are made on it. We are introducing changes to the ward configuration and to staffing levels, which have brought benefits to the way in which services are configured in Stracathro. The clinical services there are now part of a Tayside network and are being managed on a Tayside-wide basis, linking into other clinical services. Many of the consultants in Ninewells are going out to Stracathro to support the services. Earlier this week, the director of medicine confirmed that four of the physicians and a number of the surgeons will be going out to support services there. We are committed to the services at Stracathro. We have communicated with our staff, with MSPs, with the local council and with the health council about the changes and the reasons for them. In the circumstances, we believe that we have done what we could in the short time the trust has been in existence to stabilise services. We are not trying to pre-empt the review. The changes are not irrevocable and we are interested in providing safe, sustainable and affordable services at Stracathro."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C286115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 286115,
      "EditedText": "One of our main concerns is about consultation, so I want to put one question to the board and one to the trust. Representatives of Angus and Mearns Action to Save Stracathro said that they had been refused a consultation meeting in either Montrose or the Mearns about the review. I would like the health board to tell us why those meetings were refused and what consultation meetings have taken place.Concerns were raised by staff, who said that there had been minimal consultation. It seemed that information had not been given except in response to articles in the media, so I would like the trust to comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 286116,
      "EditedText": "We were keen to engage with the community and with the public of Tayside throughout the process, and we have done that in a number of ways. In September, we held five public meetings. Prior to that, at the invitation of the Brechin and District Patients Association, we also attended a public meeting. There have been other requests for public meetings in other parts of Tayside, but we felt that we could not continue with that process because the people who were involved with it were also the people who needed to get on with completing the review. We have not been consulting on proposals. Unusually for the health service, we have gone out to explain to people what we are doing and why we are doing it, before getting together any proposals to put to them. The official public consultation will take place in the new year, once we receive the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 286120,
      "EditedText": "Did you say that it was the associate medical director who led the human resources discussions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 286121,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 286122,
      "EditedText": "Were there HR discussions, and who led them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 286124,
      "EditedText": "Do you believe that the HR strategy is central to the way in which you deliver your services so that the staff are fully aware of what is happening?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 286125,
      "EditedText": "We do—very much so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 286128,
      "EditedText": "Why not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 286132,
      "EditedText": "What levels of staff are you talking about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 286134,
      "EditedText": "Are you talking about nurses, doctors or ancillary staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 286144,
      "EditedText": "Mr White has referred to the serious and severe financial pressure that the university hospital trusts are under. However, the primary care trusts in Tayside, like other trusts across Scotland, are also facing problems because the cost of drugs in the UK has increased. As Paul White has indicated, the trusts have inherited a number of well-publicised problems and difficulties, which we and the trusts are actively trying to resolve. A series of complex issues has arisen based not only on problems that the trusts have inherited and on difficulties of which we and the trusts were not aware, but on the severe pressure caused by the additional demand for high-cost emergency areas of service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 286145,
      "EditedText": "But can you answer my question about the death by a thousand cuts at Stracathro? Many submissions have suggested that the hospital is being asked to pay towards the £12 million deficit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C286147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 286147,
      "EditedText": "So I am not going to get an answer to my specific question about Stracathro."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 286149,
      "EditedText": "Have the changes at Stracathro hospital been financially or clinically driven?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 286151,
      "EditedText": "I want to turn to that point about safe clinical care. I call Dr Richard Simpson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C286152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 286152,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in clinical safety in relation to the specific closures at the end of August. The staff side representatives say that they were not consulted and that they first heard about the amalgamation of those wards—or whatever happened on 23 August—through the media. Their central complaint is that they were not consulted. From what you were saying, there appears to have been plenty of consultation from August—although you did not specify when—to October and Mr Townell has been conducting that consultation with staff. The staff are complaining about what happened prior to that. What consultation took place before the amalgamation of wards?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 286153,
      "EditedText": "The amalgamation of wards has not yet taken place—we are in the implementation phase now. I think that 24 August was the day on which the executive directors said to staff, \"These are proposals that we would like you to consider and we would like to hear your views on them.\" On 23 August, The Courier and Advertiser ran an article—the story was picked up from someone—about the possibility that there might be changes at Stracathro hospital and reductions in bed numbers. That happened on the day before the executive directors had planned to go to Stracathro hospital. It was unfortunate and it is certainly not the way in which we would have liked it to happen. However, that is a fact of life in the service in which we work, which is a democracy, as the country is a democracy. We do not gag people to prevent them from speaking to the press. I assume that a member of staff spoke to the press, which ran a speculative story. Members who read the article will see that it was written in a speculative manner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jeannette McMillan (Tayside Health Board): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 286159,
      "EditedText": "There was discussion around the short-term arrangements, to which Mr White has just alluded, for emergency surgical admissions to be transferred to Ninewells. As part of those discussions, the situation was taken into the acute services review, as we were well aware that there had to be a medium-term plan and a long-term plan for the delivery of services for Tayside residents, including the population of Angus. As Mr White said, these key issues will be progressed in the acute services review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 286162,
      "EditedText": "On the one hand, there has been a period of limbo, almost, because you decided to have short-life working groups that came up with suggestions and conclusions, including the proposal to maintain services for a three to five-year period, while long-term provision was considered; on the other hand, you have not maintained those services. Rather, you made changes to them while the acute services review was under way. By your own admission, the acute services review has extended beyond the period that you expected. Instead of waiting for the outcome of the review, you have been making changes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C286168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 286168,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on Richard Simpson's point about the medium-term strategy. I understand the logic of incorporating that into the acute services review. If you want to include in the review the recommendations for what you call service reconfiguration that were made on 28 October, which will mean a cut of something like £500,000, the closure of two wards, the loss of 30 staff and 50 beds, that is fine, but why would you make that pre-emptive strike in October?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C286176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 286176,
      "EditedText": "When did they come to you? Early this year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C286178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 286178,
      "EditedText": "As Mr Townell said, Stracathro has had problems for 15 years. Good management is about consulting and creating trust. If it is felt that the hospital is on a knife edge, it is the management's responsibility to talk to staff, patients and patients' organisations—whom you failed to meet in Montrose—and reassure them. When the senior medical staff came to you, did it not occur to you to tell the staff what they had said?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C286183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 286183,
      "EditedText": "Were members of staff on that working group?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C286185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 286185,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that the working group can solve the problem overnight. My point is that consultation at all levels helps to remove the uncertainty. The morale in Stracathro is low and people are uncertain about their future. That is due to a failure of management. I have not questioned you on the acute services review because I believe that it is a matter for the board to deal with. However, the fact that the people on the ground in Stracathro are unhappy and insecure tells me that management has failed for the past 15 years. Do you accept that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C286187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 286187,
      "EditedText": "Given that you expressed those concerns, what effect do you think Dr Maclean's publicly proclaimed position on Stracathro has had on the credibility of your consultation?I am delighted to accept Mr Brett's assurance that Dr Maclean is not taking part in the review, but will you further assure us that he will not take part in any decision-making process subsequent to the review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 286188,
      "EditedText": "Dr Maclean is the trust's medical director. The decision on the acute services review will be taken by the health board, of which Dr Maclean is not a member; he has no contribution to make."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C286191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 286191,
      "EditedText": "Do you agree that his publicly expressed view on Stracathro will totally undermine the trust management's credibility in any consultation process with either patients or staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 286192,
      "EditedText": "No. Dr Maclean is one of eleven members of the trust board and has expressed a personal view. He did so prior to the formation of the current trust. There are many more views around than his."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 286194,
      "EditedText": "I do not consider it as destabilising the trust board—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 286198,
      "EditedText": "I am not aware that Dr Maclean has made any such public statements. He is entitled to hold a personal view, in the same way as you or I—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 286201,
      "EditedText": "Will he be bound by the board's decision, or will he continue to peddle his own views?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C286203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 286203,
      "EditedText": "We shall see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 286204,
      "EditedText": "You made the consultation process sound quite in-depth, but by missing out Montrose you missed out a major population centre related to Stracathro. That was a mistake, which I hope will not be repeated.Will Tayside Health Board confirm that at a briefing meeting for all the Tayside MSPs—at which Professor Jung outlined his proposals for the future of Stracathro hospital—no mention was made of the cuts that were announced three days later? The health board and the trust knew about the cuts, but did not mention them to the MSPs. Is that consultation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8203784+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 550.0,
      "ContributionID": 286209,
      "EditedText": "Since the trust started, I think four meetings have been held."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 552.0,
      "ContributionID": 286210,
      "EditedText": "So meetings have been held in private?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 554.0,
      "ContributionID": 286211,
      "EditedText": "There are committee meetings of all trust boards that are not held in public. The trust has an obligation to hold its board meetings in public; it was at its public board meeting at Stracathro that the decision about the Stracathro wards was taken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 286212,
      "EditedText": "Was the Jones report on assessing secondary care services for the patients of Angus commissioned for the new Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 286213,
      "EditedText": "No. It was not commissioned by the trust board. I established a working group, which I asked Dr Jones to chair, to try to give me some immediate feedback on the clinical concerns that Mr Wallace asked about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 579.0,
      "ContributionID": 286223,
      "EditedText": "So you have not invested in services—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C286227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 587.0,
      "ContributionID": 286227,
      "EditedText": "If the trust cannot maintain the present hospital, what chance is there of getting capital to build a new one? Where will the capital come from?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 589.0,
      "ContributionID": 286228,
      "EditedText": "Mary Scanlon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 593.0,
      "ContributionID": 286230,
      "EditedText": "I think that you are straying with your first two questions, Mary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 595.0,
      "ContributionID": 286231,
      "EditedText": "They are about finance and management."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 597.0,
      "ContributionID": 286232,
      "EditedText": "We could stray on to the general finance and management of the health boards and the acute trusts. That is not what we are here to do. We are focusing on Stracathro. Your second question, on staffing, is reasonable. You might want to add to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 599.0,
      "ContributionID": 286233,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I shall add to that, but my questions reflect the concerns of the staff action committee, which has collected 25,000 signatures.Tayside Health Board is to be wholly inclusive of stakeholders. Given that we are living in an open, honest, accountable, democratic society in which we work to forge partnerships—Interruption. Seriously, what we have seen this morning is the opposite of that. With the benefit of hindsight, would you do things differently? Given the strength of feeling that exists in the local community, looking back six or seven months down the line, what should you have done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Brett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ContributionID": 286235,
      "EditedText": "It was always going to be extremely difficult to do what we have done, for all the reasons that you have heard this morning. The situation goes back 20 or 25 years. We will certainly reflect on the many messages, written and verbal, that we have received and we are considering how we should proceed with public consultation next year. It would be foolish of me to say that we are not going to learn from this. I am, in one sense, encouraged, as there is such interest in our health services. We are left in no doubt about how strongly communities in Tayside, not just the people of Angus, feel about their health service.We are charged with the difficult task of trying to ensure that everybody in Tayside has access to high-quality, safe services. There are inevitably trade-offs between having local access and ensuring that all health providers have the expertise, as medicine becomes increasingly specialised. The difficulty is deciding how that can be achieved within the fixed budget that the health board receives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 605.0,
      "ContributionID": 286236,
      "EditedText": "So you would do things differently in future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C286241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 615.0,
      "ContributionID": 286241,
      "EditedText": "The submission from the Stracathro staff action group says :\"High costs have been incurred as a result of suspensions and ‘gardening leave', and have required further expenditure on costly replacement locums.\"Do you feel that you have adequately utilised the qualified staff that you have, to retain services at Stracathro?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 617.0,
      "ContributionID": 286242,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I do. We have done so to the best of our ability. The two surgeons were suspended last year, during the time of the Angus trust. We were faced with a situation in which one of them had undergone retraining. In subsequent discussions with that individual, it was mutually agreed that he should take early retirement from the service. That happened last month. He was being paid his salary until last month, and has now taken early retirement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 619.0,
      "ContributionID": 286243,
      "EditedText": "I apologise, but we will have to leave it there. I am aware that we could have asked a lot more questions, but we have run out of time and must move on to our next agenda item.I thank the representatives of the board and the trust for attending this morning, answering our questions and giving us their written submissions.I suggest that we examine this evidence and consider a draft report in private session at our meeting on 1 December. Prior to that, I shall take some soundings and advice on what courses of action are open to the committee and to whom we should make representations on this matter. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C286245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7560,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 623.0,
      "ContributionID": 286245,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we have a short suspension of business for a comfort break, and that we return in five minutes. We will then be on a tight time schedule."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C286246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1693
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Stracathro Hospital",
      "HeadingID": 7560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 626.0,
      "ContributionID": 286246,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 12:53."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.8359982+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John Swinney): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 156384,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the eighth meeting of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, at which we will continue our inquiry into local economic development services. Today, we have a series of witnesses who will consider the vocational education and lifelong learning aspects of our inquiry. Four groups of witnesses will attend; we decided to start the meeting a bit earlier to give us the chance to hear those witnesses. Members will be relieved to hear that we will have a break for coffee halfway through the morning, at around 11 o'clock.Our first witnesses are from the careers guidance service. On behalf of the committee, I welcome Mr Malcolm Barron and invite him to introduce himself and his colleagues and to say a few words of introduction before we open the meeting to questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Malcolm Barron (Careers Guidance Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 156385,
      "EditedText": "I am the vice-president of the Institute of Careers Guidance, a national body that covers the careers guidance profession. Most members of the body were formerly with the local authority-run careers services, now careers service companies. A third of that membership now works in other areas, including further education colleges, universities, enterprise companies and various other organisations. At the committee's request, I have brought with me two practitioners who work on the front line. Beth Hall is the senior careers adviser in Glenrothes and Brian Waddell is a careers manager based in Cupar; both have experience in Fife careers service and in other careers services.I could say a little about careers service companies, but if members have background information already, I will not bother."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 156386,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. The clerks have provided some background material on the structure of the service; it would probably be most productive if we moved straight to questioning.How actively involved is the careers service in detecting demand for vocational training services that would be provided to individuals? Is the service a player in the assessment of demand, or is it more a signposting organisation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 156390,
      "EditedText": "My first question follows on from John Swinney's remarks; I refer especially to 16 to 18-year-olds who have chosen a vocational training route such as skillseekers. I know the Fife model, with which you have much involvement. What do you feel about the fact that young people at 16 to 18, who take the vocational route, have the choice only of a Scottish vocational qualification?Secondly, the committee is about lifelong learning, not schools. However, part of lifelong learning is the support given to young people to help them to decide what to do next, and I am quite concerned about what is happening at school. How effective is the careers guidance that is provided in schools by teachers? What effect will higher still have on the delivery of that guidance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 156391,
      "EditedText": "Your first question concerned provision for 16 to 18-year-olds—did you refer to the FAST-TRAC model?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 156395,
      "EditedText": "There was a pilot in Fife on NCs, but once the pilot stopped, nothing happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 156402,
      "EditedText": "I will make some initial comments, before asking Brian Waddell to provide you with more detail. A national group is currently examining the subject of careers education—that is probably long overdue, but it is helpful. We see careers education as important, but there are pressures in the school timetable, particularly given the emphasis on raising attainment; schools are feeling those pressures. My concern is—although I have no evidence for this—that time for careers education may be squeezed because of the pressure to achieve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 156408,
      "EditedText": "The Institute of Careers Guidance has a pivotal role as a conduit between schools, youngsters and the outside world. I am interested in your interface with what is out there. Could you expand a little on the institute's machinery for contact with business and commerce?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 156417,
      "EditedText": "One should bear it in mind that we are not the sole information providers. In a number of areas, there are education-business partnerships, which can feed information into the pot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156432",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 156432,
      "EditedText": "That is possibly a function of the selection process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 156434,
      "EditedText": "That comes back to the point that Annabel Goldie made, that we should take account of what employers want. I will give you a practical example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 156436,
      "EditedText": "Do the witnesses know about the model used at Stevenson College, which offers higher national certificates and higher national diplomas in motor vehicle engineering? People leave that college at 20 with absolutely no practical skills and little employability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 156439,
      "EditedText": "I accept that. People should be assured that previous work will be recognised when they move on to the next stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 156442,
      "EditedText": "Should a careers service not be able to tell a 16-year-old what the circuitous and more direct routes are to where they want to be in six years' time? You said that the careers service offered a signposting service; how clear can that service be about the integration of different educational opportunities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 156443,
      "EditedText": "Careers advisers can maintain regular contact with the various providers of education and training and can map how people progress. There are a number of information resources that can assist in that process. Institutions are trying to adapt what they offer to match the way in which the market is moving. That process is well developed in certain areas and is developing in others, so the question of credit accumulation and transfer is being addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 156449,
      "EditedText": "We could benefit from a longer-term tracking exercise. At the moment, we do first-destination statistics for the Scottish Executive, but we do not have longer-term information on what people are doing two or three years after they have been on a college course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 156459,
      "EditedText": "Young people have access at any time, because they are entitled to advice. Careers advisers regularly visit schools and colleges to make services available. There are careers centres in most towns throughout Scotland where young people who have left school, and their parents, can gain access to services. Those services are not necessarily available to young people once they reach the age of 24; availability depends on a host of other factors such as what other funding there is to support that type of activity. Funding has come from such sources as Europe, local economic development projects and local enterprise companies. The opportunity centre development is an attempt in Fife to bring together in one place a range of services for employment, education and training advice. In Fife there is the adult guidance service, which is funded by the council, the careers service, colleges and adult basic education. The intention is to bring all those organisations and local economic development workers into the one place so that a person can get access to all those services in one place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 156462,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, the university for industry will adopt a role that is similar to the one that you are describing—a single stop for accessing information on all types of training in further and higher education. How will that sit alongside the opportunity shops, and how will the careers service interact with that new organisation? Will there be any interaction? I think that there will have to be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 156463,
      "EditedText": "The university for industry will have outlets in the opportunity centre. That will be a point of contact. The opportunity centre will also offer additional services. The university for industry will have information points at the learning centres. The difference is that people will have access to advice and guidance from experienced professionals over and above the services that would be provided through the university for industry.There have been links between the university for industry and careers service companies. They will continue as the university for industry develops. One of the areas of interest to us will be the information resource that supports the university for industry. We are keen that it should maintain its present quality and breadth."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 156465,
      "EditedText": "The situation is quite different in different parts of the country. The number of education and business partnerships varies, as do their roles and the way in which they develop.The partnership in Fife is very active. We have a co-operative means of gathering information. We allocate targets to certain organisations. The basic premise is to gather information once and use it many times. As we all probably know, the difficulty with labour market information is that it is tremendously fickle and subject to influences outwith a UK context, which can have quite serious impacts. The most obvious example would be the impact that far eastern problems had on the Hyundai development in Fife. General trends can be perceived, which indicate the way in which the labour market is moving, as well as specific information on companies within a certain area. That information is shared. People are using that to inform themselves about what type of education and training provision there should be and to inform young people and their parents of the way in which the labour market is moving—to say that certain opportunities are on the decrease, and that other industries are coming in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 156467,
      "EditedText": "In terms of what we are doing at present? Brian Waddell has already alluded to the fact that we hope, following publication of new guidelines on careers education, for an improvement in the quality of pupils' preparation on leaving school. There is scope for developing guidance support for adults who are seeking to re-enter the labour market, or seeking a change of career. Those are important issues that need to be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 156473,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much for the opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Baker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 156479,
      "EditedText": "There are two points to consider. First, there are issues surrounding getting feedback from consumers. Student associations often find it difficult to get feedback from people on vocational courses. We must consider the whole issue of how we encourage feedback from people on those courses. Beyond that, a problem that is common to many FE courses is the problem of getting materials and resources. Secondly, one of our wider concerns is about the input of local businesses and enterprise agencies into the delivery of courses. We often hear that employers are not satisfied with the people who are coming through vocational courses, and want to retrain them once they are in the workplace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 156482,
      "EditedText": "It was not a website system; it was a specific programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 156484,
      "EditedText": "As far as I am aware, it has not been changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 156485,
      "EditedText": "I just wanted to clear up that wee point. A lot of money went into that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 156492,
      "EditedText": "Earlier, you mentioned bums on seats. I want to link that point with employability. When students have finished further or higher education, employability is the key issue. Do you feel that the funding system leads to courses being offered that do not add value to the students and enable them to take on a job in the labour market? Is a funding mechanism that tries to increase student numbers the wrong driver for the training and education system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Baker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 156500,
      "EditedText": "Steps have been taken to try to tackle the problem by putting business people on to boards of management, because it is thought that they will have an input into the way that colleges are run."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 156504,
      "EditedText": "Do we have any figures on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 156509,
      "EditedText": "First, better collaboration is required between educationalists and business. Business people know the skills that they want the colleges to produce, but they do not necessarily know how to put those skills there in the first place. Businessmen are not educationalists; they may know the skills they want, but they may not know how to get them, particularly if they are considering communications skills. We hear complaints such as, \"Engineers can't spell.\" I have never known an engineering course to include a spelling test and so one would not get that skill from that particular course. Such issues need to be discussed by educationalists and businesses. As far as access is concerned, there should be sources of impartial advice and guidance that people can approach in order to boost their confidence, rather than being left to feel that they are lost in a big system that they do not understand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Baker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 156510,
      "EditedText": "With the best will in the world, we can have the best possible network of consultation—a vastly well-funded representative structure—that gets input from people on courses and gives people advice about how to get on to courses. However, unless students are funded properly, there is no incentive for them to go to college."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 156512,
      "EditedText": "That is not the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 156515,
      "EditedText": "Are there examples of best practice, or is there a great gulf between the business community and the educational establishments?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156517",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 156517,
      "EditedText": "Kenryck, you are articulating a fascinating concept. Mary, is it the case that further education colleges, by their nature, tend to have closer ties with local communities than is the case with universities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156518",
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      "ID": 825
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Middleton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 156518,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I think so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156521",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 156521,
      "EditedText": "About the strengths of associations in all the colleges."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156522",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Baker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 156522,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156523",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 156523,
      "EditedText": "Is it viable to propose that there could well be a meaningful relationship between student associations and the local business community?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 156527,
      "EditedText": "The students seem to be the living mass of the college."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156529",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 156529,
      "EditedText": "I agree."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156530",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 156530,
      "EditedText": "Thank you—simple question, simple answer."
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  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C156531",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 156531,
      "EditedText": "Many questions that I wanted to ask have been covered already. However, I was surprised to hear some of Kenryck's comments. It sounds as if there is a considerable mismatch. He talked about people coming out with certificates that state that they have knowledge in a particular area, whereas employers are looking for competency-based skills, such as literacy in information technology.I was also interested in what Mary Middleton said about having a pool of people who are trainable, or who are willing to be trained. How do you get to the stage of training those people in a skill that will lead to better employability? How could that be better developed? Are we lacking a lot of labour market information? How do we develop better links between the business community and colleges and provide courses that meet those needs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Middleton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 156532,
      "EditedText": "A start could be made by inviting more businesses into institutions, not just to talk to the people who devise the courses but to meet the students. Businesses should be talking to students on a one-to-one basis and asking them about what is going on in the college. The students would then know that the transferable skills they gain are worth while, as would the business community.Degrees from the University of the Highlands and Islands include an element called personal and professional capabilities, which should be expanded throughout the further education sector. There have been teething problems with that, but it will be recognisable. There will be a certificate to say that you have done teamwork and you have done planning and organising; you have all those skills. That should spread through the further education sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 156536,
      "EditedText": "This follows on from Duncan McNeil's point about the provision of access to women returners and the barriers that are put up for them. Do you have any thoughts on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 156537,
      "EditedText": "Child care. That should not be specifically a women's issue, but in 98 per cent of cases it is women who are looking after children. If they cannot get funded child care, they cannot attend college. It is as simple as that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 156539,
      "EditedText": "People that we spoke to before said that there was confusion on the part of students going into further education about the new deal, skillseekers and so on. Would you back that up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 156541,
      "EditedText": "On the links between business and further and higher education, do you think that business should be involved in funding courses, to ensure that they engage because they have a financial interest in it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 156543,
      "EditedText": "I draw this section of the committee hearing to a close. I thank Richard Baker and his colleagues for their presentations and for responding to our questions. We look forward to seeing you again in the fullness of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Grahame Smith (Scottish Trades Union Congress): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 156547,
      "EditedText": "We welcome the opportunity to meet the committee again. I understand that the committee wants to hear our views on workplace training and wants us to give some examples of best practice and not-so-good practice.I will introduce my colleagues and say something about the areas of knowledge on which they will be happy to answer questions.Peter Court is convener of the Amalgamated Engineering and Electrical Union at Michelin Tyre plc in Dundee. He has been involved in the company's initiatives to offer vocational and non-vocational education to the work force.Norma Falconer is a medical secretary at the Western general hospital in Edinburgh and is a member of Unison. She has accessed opportunities to learn through Unison's return-to-learn programme.Harry Donaldson is a national secretary with the GMB. He has knowledge of a wide range of training agreements that have been implemented in a number of companies and in a number of industries. He knows a number of examples of good practice and not-so-good practice. I am Grahame Smith, deputy general secretary of the Scottish Trades Union Congress.The STUC has been involved in a number of initiatives, including the bargaining for skills initiative and, more recently, the lifelong learning unit, which aims to develop capacity within the trade union movement to participate in learning initiatives in the workplace. We are happy to answer any questions on those or any other issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 156549,
      "EditedText": "The best way to handle that question will be to ask my colleagues to say something about the links that they are aware of in their workplace, which should demonstrate the nature of the connection between education and workplace learning. Peter will be able to talk about the situation at Michelin Tyre in Dundee, which is a very good example of best practice. Harry Donaldson and Norma Falconer will be able to give other examples."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 156551,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in your experience. I visited Scottish Power on Monday and heard about a similar example of a company's commitment to workplace learning. Was the arrangement put in place solely by the company, or was the company supported in the process by external agencies, through links with colleges and so on? Did the company do it to meet a business requirement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 156553,
      "EditedText": "In your factory alone?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 156558,
      "EditedText": "Both you and your partners in industry, the Confederation of British Industry, identified the same problems from different perspectives. The CBI identified why workplace training was important from a business perspective and you identified why it was important in terms of personal development. Studies have shown that there is a major disparity between large companies and small companies when it comes to workplace training. The same applies to the public and private sectors. We must facilitate the expansion of best practice.Should the trade unions prioritise—I hate to say modernise—their negotiating agenda to put workplace training on the same level as pay and conditions? Michelin International and Scottish Power—one a French multinational, the other a major player in the north American market—recognise the importance of workplace training from the point of view of their business success. Is the trade union movement similarly aware?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 156559,
      "EditedText": "We have identified as a problem the fact that the unions do not have the issue of training far enough up the collective bargaining agenda. To rectify that, we developed a bargaining for skills programme, which was launched by the Scottish Trades Union Congress four or five years ago.There is a problem in Scotland in relation to the capacity to take the issue forward. We identified a gap in the knowledge of trade union officials in relation to the ever-changing learning environment. Our bargaining for skills programme was aimed at training trade union representatives in training issues. In two or three years, we trained more than 100 trade union representatives, which, although not enough, is all that we were able to do with the funds available.That led to the development of workplace initiatives, notable examples of which are at Yarrow in Glasgow and at Stoddard Carpets near Paisley. The Stoddard example is interesting because the company is small and recognised that it needed to modernise its operations and allow its staff to become involved in the way that the organisation was run. It did that through training. There are a number of similar examples."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 156561,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to. That would also allow you to see some of the problems that were involved in the process."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156562",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 156562,
      "EditedText": "When I was in business, one of our practical problems was how to sustain the release of an employee for training or further education—it created a gap in the work force. Is that a problem for smaller business organisations? Is there a need for greater flexibility on the part of the provider?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156563",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 156563,
      "EditedText": "There are difficulties that smaller companies face that are not as important for larger companies. One of the problems faced by companies is in continuing the production process while employees are released for training. That is exacerbated in smaller companies that do not have the required flexibility in their work force.One initiative that I mentioned last time I met the committee is the job rotation scheme that is being run through the Workers Educational Association in partnership with Glasgow Development Agency and other organisations. The scheme allows unemployed people, trained over six to 12 months, to fill in for employees in small businesses who are released for off-the-job training. The evaluations of the scheme suggest that that is one way of addressing some of those difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Donaldson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 156564,
      "EditedText": "The provider, the employer and the employee all need to be flexible; it is a tripartite approach. In the end it leads to increased flexibility in the work force. Once they are committed to learning, everything starts to move. In some cases, there has been a quid pro quo—the employer has funded half the time and the other half has been funded by the employee. Particularly in smaller companies, where it might be difficult to backfill the jobs, we have looked towards the new deal to bring in people from the intermediary labour market. Large companies have similar problems, but we have been able to negotiate a flexible approach on availability times. However, that may present a particular difficulty for female employees; we need to be aware of their needs and care responsibilities. By and large, employers have moved towards a more flexible approach. We have followed several models in order to meet the needs of employers, employees and providers. So far, we have been fairly successful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 156565,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful, convener, to get more information about the pilot scheme that Grahame Smith has mentioned. I have a follow-up question for Harry Donaldson. Assuming a happy scenario where release is possible and training is needed—I am talking about a small business, where the problems are more critical—have you any information about whether further education college provision is meeting the needs of your members' workplaces?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 156572,
      "EditedText": "More value could be generated from the money that is spent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C156573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 156573,
      "EditedText": "The issue of training is partly about strengthening the work force, but also about personal development. Some people may have been out of education for a long time and lack confidence in their learning skills. What sort of support or advice is available to such people to get them interested in training? How is that advice best delivered? How are people best encouraged to identify the skills that they have and would like to develop? However much emphasis we put on lifelong learning, unless we can find a way of persuading the horse to drink people will not get involved in training or feel that it is worth while. They also have to feel that they can learn."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Falconer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 156577,
      "EditedText": "Day courses are offered throughout the hospital, but I wanted to get into proper education. I did not see that being promoted in the hospital."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Donaldson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 156583,
      "EditedText": "It is a bit of a cliché, but if you cannot take the people to the colleges, you have to consider taking the colleges to the people. If there is a barrier, we will need to look at more innovative ways of delivering training.A lot of major employers, networking with small and medium enterprises, could be used. Scottish Power has looked at ways of using its open learning for the benefit of the community. With other businesses, networking and liaising might be a good option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 156591,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that formal education could not respond to the needs of—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 156592,
      "EditedText": "In the way that that particular model is constructed, parachuting in a further education college lecturer to run a training course was not seen as being as effective as the development of a partnership approach over a period of time in which a relationship would be built up with tutors to encourage people to advance at a pace that suited them and the company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Donaldson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 156594,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it was in-house delivery."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Court: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 156596,
      "EditedText": "We have recently been re-accredited with IIP for the second time round. We had full involvement from the LEC and other local agencies. We have just been through the QS-9000 standard, which was demanded of us by our customers, and which required two or three hours' training for everyone in the factory—1,100 people. We are now going through the process of achieving ISO14001, again for production quality purposes. Again, we had the full involvement of the enterprise company.You asked about suppliers. A wholly owned subsidiary of Michelin, Xm Services Ltd, trains our apprentices and does all our on-site training. It offers that facility, on a commercial basis, to suppliers in the area. We also hire out our technical expertise, our drawing office facilities, our computer-aided-design development teams, and our engineering and planning teams. That is commercially driven, of course; but we have the skills on site and we have a lot of valuable people, and some smaller companies can tap into that. We believe that we then get a better service from our suppliers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Donaldson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 156599,
      "EditedText": "Recently, our trade union has been involved in going through a number of redundancies. A key issue that came up from people who were faced with redundancy concerned the support that they could expect from the employer, or anyone else, to move into other learning or career paths.Out of that process of redundancy negotiation, we moved rapidly to a form of individual learning account. In that package, individuals were each provided with £1,000, while support mechanisms and task groups were put in to help assist people back into work and to allow them access to different areas. As trade unions, we have taken the initiative and said that it is not only about redundancy packages; a range of ways for people to move back into employment and to develop skills has to be found. We can provide much of that, and there are major employers that would be interested. As trade unionists, the interesting thing for us—and particularly for me in recent years—has been the shift away from the negotiator to the consultant. That might seem strange, but many companies ask me whether I can facilitate a best practice or benchmarking visit to them to see what they are doing. Companies need to move ahead and the only way to do that is through investment in people. They are coming to us to find out about that. They are using the trade union movement as a key tool in developing that process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 156600,
      "EditedText": "Harry Donaldson mentioned to me an example of a company that did not involve the unions in an initial training project. The company threw away a lot of money because what it delivered for its work force was not what was needed. It was only when the company involved its work force in developing what was needed that its training programme succeeded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 156601,
      "EditedText": "So many issues have been flung up in this presentation that it would be valuable for the committee to look at one or two of those examples of best practice."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156602",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 156602,
      "EditedText": "That issue will be raised when we discuss the work programme in about half an hour. I do not want to insult in any way what Harry Donaldson has just said about the role of the trade union movement in finding solutions, but it raises some questions about some of the agencies that I thought were supposedly—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156607",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Donaldson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 156607,
      "EditedText": "We are seeing that in the initiatives that are taking place and we have been using best practice conferences to get that message across to employers. We would say, \"Visit these places and speak to the people who have been through the process, and you will come away feeling confident about what those individuals have been able to achieve and how they have made major changes in their lives.\" I have every confidence in that approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 156608,
      "EditedText": "I draw this part of the inquiry to a close. Thank you for your contribution to the discussion, which has been interesting. We will reflect on the points that have been discussed. Some information on best practice would be useful, as we will consider case studies in early January and will look at some of those issues. Thank you for attending.I welcome Alan Brown, director of the Employment Service in Scotland. The committee is conducting an inquiry into the delivery of local economic development and vocational training services at a local level in Scotland, to identify how services are delivered and whether there is effective integration of those services. I ask Alan to introduce his colleagues, after which we will proceed to questioning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 156611,
      "EditedText": "The Employment Service is a GB-wide agency of the Department for Education and Employment. We have a network of 130 job centres in Scotland—you will have one or more of them in your constituencies. We deliver a range of services—aimed particularly at unemployed people—in relation to the Government's welfare-to-work initiatives, including the new deal. Each year the Employment Service makes an agreement with each of the 20 or 21 local enterprise companies about what we should do to help to fill their training for work places. Each year, Employment Service district managers and the officials of the local enterprise companies discuss that issue. Having made those statements of arrangements—as they are called—with individual local enterprise companies, we try to help them to fill their adult training programmes. About eight in every 10 people who start training for work are referrals from Employment Service local offices."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 156612,
      "EditedText": "How responsive is that system to the changing demands and pressures of individual companies within a geographical area?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 156613,
      "EditedText": "Neither my colleagues nor I are well placed to comment on that. One of the roles of the local enterprise companies, Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise is to decide what sort of training is required. They have discussions with companies and discuss with us the nature of the unemployed client group that exists at any point. We feed information in to them and they contact employer bodies and people who are involved in training. Following that, in interviewing unemployed people, we seek to refer those for whom training is the most appropriate option to the most appropriate form of training. On our knowledge of what goes on in local labour markets, we deal with employers every day. We seek to fill their vacancies. We therefore have a feel for the nature and characteristics of unemployed people and, through our extensive contacts with employers, a sense of what employers are looking for. That helps to feed into the debate that we have with local enterprise companies as they plan the shape of training for work each year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 156615,
      "EditedText": "The Employment Service and its predecessors have been involved in advisory work since about 1911. We made a step forward in the level of advice and support that we sought to give to unemployed people when, with the restart programme in the mid-1980s, the Government wanted us to make that a more important aspect of our work.People understandably wondered whether the Employment Service was the right organisation to deliver the new deal, given the nature of its role, its responsibilities and the training and expertise of its work force. One of the commitments that was made was that all our new deal personal advisers would be asked to achieve a SVQ level 3 in guidance. We have honoured that commitment, and have made progress in ensuring that our advisers have that externally recognised qualification. We carry out our own internal training courses for personal advisers. In Scotland, we have been grateful to many external organisations, such as the Scottish Community Education Council and organisations that deal with the homeless or ethnic minority groups. We therefore have internal training, personal advisers who seek to be accredited at SVQ level 3, and a range of organisations in Scotland that have input in the training of our advisers. However, when it comes to the new deal, the Employment Service would not claim that it is the role of its personal advisers to try to deal with all the problems that young people may have—to diagnose them and to suggest what those young people might do. There is the gateway and we have contracted, often through adult guidance networks in Scotland, for extra provision. When the new deal personal advisers are dealing with someone who they think has special problems that are beyond their competence to deal with, there is a network of others, across Scotland, to whom they can refer cases. Although I would like our personal advisers to be highly skilled, we do not aim to be the one-stop shop for all guidance and support. That would be over-ambitious, and there are other organisations in Scotland that are much better placed to help with that specialist provision.You talked about bureaucracy. Well, I am a bureaucrat, I suppose. I have never known a programme that we have been involved in that did not require quite a few forms to be filled in. That is certainly true for the new deal. A lot of public money goes out through the new deal and that money needs to be accounted for. There is also a desire to know how the programme is going and to collect information that can be analysed and published—a lot of the new deal statistics are published. However, there was concern about the level of bureaucracy. Some months ago, the Government asked Deloitte & Touche to conduct a study to determine whether the amount of paperwork that was required for the new deal could be reduced. The ambition was to reduce it by at least 25 per cent. A report was produced—it is now being acted on—which does not propose to reduce it by 25 per cent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Charles Husband (Employment Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 156616,
      "EditedText": "It proposes 15 per cent, initially."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 156620,
      "EditedText": "I shall try to answer the last question first, and I shall ask Charlie to comment on the numbers. It will always be extremely difficult to say what would have happened if we had not done what we did. If the new deal had been delivered only in certain places, and not at all elsewhere, we would be able to measure its effect on areas with similar characteristics and a similar group of young people. However, as the new deal operates throughout Great Britain, there is no opportunity to know what would happen if it was not in place.The Government would claim that the fall in the number of 18 to 24-year-olds who have been unemployed for more than six months has shown a steeper reduction than would have been the case if the new deal had not been introduced. Although the new deal applies everywhere, it began in January 1998 in pathfinder areas—the one in Scotland was Tayside. The situation in Tayside and the other 11 pathfinder areas can be compared to the overall situation. The new deal was in place for only three months longer in those pathfinder areas, as three months later it was introduced everywhere. However, in those three months, the level of youth unemployment appears to have decreased more rapidly in the pathfinder areas than in the country as a whole.The first part of your question concerned the number of young people who are going into jobs. The general situation is slightly better in Scotland than in Great Britain as a whole. Charlie might have some numbers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Husband: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 156621,
      "EditedText": "The number of young people who are entering jobs is more than 16,000, of which about 12,000 have entered sustained jobs—jobs that last for 13 weeks or more. The new deal is being heavily evaluated. Many aspects of its activities are being covered by research projects. There is an overarching project that will try, eventually, to measure the impact of the new deal in added value. Several reports could be made available to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 156622,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure how the committee proceeds, but we would be happy to engage in dialogue with it if it wants particular detailed aspects on the statistics of the new deal and if contacts between the clerks who support the committee and ourselves is useful—we may be able to determine what information members will find helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C156624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 156624,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, the new deal focuses mainly on young people, but it also applies to other groups—single parents, the disabled and so on. How effective do you think that it has been in helping those other groups, particularly single parents, in accessing training that they might otherwise not have been able to access?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 156626,
      "EditedText": "I am under some time pressure, so I will have to draw matters to a conclusion quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 156630,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 156632,
      "EditedText": "I also asked how many people were still in gateway after six months."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 156634,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 156636,
      "EditedText": "I will take three brief questions. I would appreciate it if we could also have brief answers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 156642,
      "EditedText": "Quantitative, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 156643,
      "EditedText": "It is not qualitative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 542.0,
      "ContributionID": 156648,
      "EditedText": "I return to what I was saying: we have a network of personal advisers who give initial advice and guidance on the various options that might be helpful to those who are on the new deal. We do not, however, set ourselves up to be experts on careers guidance. That is why, in all the units of delivery for new deal, in the partnerships and in the gateway, there will always be provision, which has been contracted by the Employment Service, either through the adult guidance network or directly with the careers service, so that they can fulfil that role. If people want particular guidance, they are most likely to be referred to part of the adult guidance network for a proper assessment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 156650,
      "EditedText": "It would not be true that everyone would get it. We try to give our personal advisers some flexibility and discretion: we advise them not to overextend themselves, but not to refer people unnecessarily either. Advisers are encouraged to know what provision is available locally; they know that one option that is open to them, which they should exercise if someone requires such guidance, is to refer people. We have set out those arrangements; we want advisers to make the best use of them, in the best interests of the clients."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 156651,
      "EditedText": "We have heard much evidence about the gap between business and training provision—not just in the training sector, but in further education. Do you recognise that there is a chasm between the two? Given that you are in regular dialogue with both, can you tell us how it can be bridged?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 156653,
      "EditedText": "I should like to ask a follow-up question. Do you follow the success in gaining employment of clients who go into training programmes? Do you get information on whether training courses have been relevant and whether they provide the skills necessary to make the participants employable at the end of the training provision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 156656,
      "EditedText": "I thank you, convener, and the other committee members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ID": 3551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 566.0,
      "ContributionID": 156659,
      "EditedText": "We now have two brief items to resolve, which I hope will not take too long. Members will have a paper in front of them on agenda item 2, the work programme. We discussed it at our meeting two weeks ago, and I have been reflecting on the composition of the programme. I was particularly concerned that three of our inquiry programmes in January and February were devoted to case studies—the collection of data—and one was devoted to the case study report. I felt that that constrained the committee quite a lot, and that we could undertake some more practical case study work by appointing reporters on behalf of the committee. That would free up a couple of meetings for us to undertake other work that we might be interested in carrying out. A further paper, \"Subjects for Further Inquiries\", relates to that—we will consider it later. The first recommendation on our work programme is:\"The committee agrees to appoint three Reporters to lead small groups of members to undertake a case study visit to a local area identified by the committee, and to report back to the committee.\"The second recommendation is that I seek the authority of the conveners liaison group to carry out that work and for the expense incurred as a result. Finally, there are a number of meetings in the work programme that we plan to hold in private. I will seek the committee's agreement to hold those meetings in private, so that we can resolve our position on the various stages of the case study report. Members have the work programme in front of them; I would also like guidance from them on which case studies would be appropriate, so that the clerks can begin some preparatory work. You will notice from the work programme that we propose to use our first meeting of the new year to examine one case study. The first case study will have a formal hearing; the three others will be carried out by groups of members acting on behalf of the committee. I open that up for discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 156666,
      "EditedText": "On the third recommendation, can we confirm that we will hold in private the parts of the meetings during which we are required to agree our reports—on 8 December, 1 March, 5 April and possibly 3 May?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 565.0,
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      "ID": 3551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 156667,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ID": 3552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 593.0,
      "ContributionID": 156672,
      "EditedText": "That links in with tourism—we must set a date for when we will deal with that. That does not leave much room for our other priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3552,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 599.0,
      "ContributionID": 156675,
      "EditedText": "The Executive report might not be published by then—I think that it is due at the end of January. It would be possible to include tourism in the meeting following the one on 26 January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ID": 3552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ContributionID": 156677,
      "EditedText": "Can we give the Executive notice that we are setting aside a slot for that? The Executive should appreciate being able to fit in with committees' programmes. That would be good management. We should confirm a time to discuss e-commerce, or decide what will fit into future meetings after further consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ID": 3552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 608.0,
      "ContributionID": 156679,
      "EditedText": "I agree with some of what Fergus is saying. I hope that the committee will not get into the habit of some others, which rush deliberation of some issues and cover them in one meeting. The tourism strategy is fundamental to many members who represent, for example, rural areas. It is nonsense to try to undertake an investigation in a couple of hours. We need more time than that to do the job properly. Tourism is very important, and we should acknowledge that importance by giving it two meeting slots."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3552,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ContributionID": 156680,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what has been said about tourism. Some weighty issues have been raised, and I agree that the tourism review is a fundamental part of the committee's remit. We must determine how that fits in with the Executive's review of tourism, and what our relationship will be with the Executive in that process. That is not something that we need to determine today, but we should state clearly that the committee wants to give tourism detailed consideration. That does not involve the committee simply rubber-stamping a glossy brochure. Tourism sticks out from the other issues for potential inquiry.I also agree with those who mentioned the e-commerce strategy. If we are not to make a decision on that today, we should pencil it in for one of the single-inquiry sessions. We could take evidence—even if the report on e-commerce is not to hand—from experts in that area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 614.0,
      "ContributionID": 156682,
      "EditedText": "Can any of the companies that we will be dealing with offer committee facilities in or around Edinburgh?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156685",
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    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 620.0,
      "ContributionID": 156685,
      "EditedText": "I will draw the meeting to a close. If I have read things correctly, the committee is keen to look at the tourism strategy on 26 January. We might need a second session on that. We will keep the work programme under review, to ensure that issues raised by members—particularly e-commerce—are taken into account.I thank members for their attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156686",
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      "Heading": "Inquiries",
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      "ContributionID": 156686,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:47."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156388",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 156388,
      "EditedText": "How do the providers of vocational training services respond to your role in assembling that information? What response do you receive when you express your concern about lack of availability or the demand for a particular course?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 156392,
      "EditedText": "I asked about SVQs being the only choice for those young people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 156393,
      "EditedText": "I will make some initial comments about preparation in school, but Brian Waddell has some particular views that are relevant to your question, and it might be useful if he answers.Most, if not all, young people who go through vocational education training do an SVQ, because there is a desire for competence-delivered qualifications. There is a demand from some employers, and even some young people, for other qualifications that would be equally valid and that would have benefits for the companies. I refer in particular to national certificate courses and—for those with greater capability—higher national certificate courses. Having that flexibility would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Beth Hall (Careers Guidance Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 156394,
      "EditedText": "In Fife, FAST-TRAC is looking to integrate the college model with the employer model. A pilot integrated training scheme is about to start, which will involve a mixture of NCs and VQs. That is quite an exciting opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156400",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 156400,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful and would be valued by employers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156405",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Waddell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 156405,
      "EditedText": "It is my feeling that careers guidance is not given sufficient importance in schools. That may be a generalisation, but it is my perception."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156407",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 156407,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 156410,
      "EditedText": "And wearing your other professional hat?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 156411,
      "EditedText": "Each of the careers service companies—for which you have responsibility—is required to update and maintain labour market information. They do so in a range of different ways, most obviously by being in contact with employers in the local area. That is done on a regular basis. We all have different approaches and strategies for gathering that information, in conjunction with other organisations. Careers service companies work in partnership with local economic development departments in councils, with the enterprise companies and with the Employment Service to ensure that we share the information that we gather. Our job is to translate that into something that is understood by young people—who have no experience—their parents, and teaching staff, who have much more regular contact with pupils than we have. It is important that teachers are informed about what is happening in the local labour market."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 156412,
      "EditedText": "Does that contact extend to chambers of commerce?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156415",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 156415,
      "EditedText": "Yes, in a number of ways. First, we can influence it through the information material that we provide, which is freely available to pupils, parents and school staff. Each of the schools has a careers library where that information can be accessed. Secondly, we can provide briefings to careers guidance staff, who are often the first point of contact. Finally, we can encourage employers to visit schools and brief people directly. That is often the best way of getting the message across."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156419",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 156419,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we certainly could."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156420",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Waddell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 156420,
      "EditedText": "We have played a significant role, perhaps not with respect to the raising of literacy and numeracy standards, but with respect to other concerns that employers often mention—such as the ability of young people to sell themselves effectively in an interview. We have run concerted campaigns focusing on that issue, using local employers to conduct mock interviews."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156421",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 156421,
      "EditedText": "That is very helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 156423,
      "EditedText": "The question of supply and demand interests me. The main difference between what happened when the Manpower Services Commission existed and what happens now is that now a greater proportion of school leavers are going on to further full-time education compared with those going into more traditional apprenticeships. Part and parcel of what is proposed in the modern apprenticeship scheme is addressing skills shortages and rebuilding the bridges from school to work. Does the proliferation of local economic development services help or hinder that process? How does the careers service interface with the local economic development organisations and employers? Has the transition from school to work via modern apprenticeships been eased?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 156424,
      "EditedText": "I will make a point that is worth making, but which might not answer your question. Over the past 10 years, the destination figures for pupils leaving school have shown a steady increase in those who aspire to and those who enter tertiary education. There has been a steady decline in the numbers entering the labour market immediately on leaving school. The committee should understand that the number of young people who leave school at 16 wishing to enter the labour market is falling considerably. It has fallen again this year because of the impact of higher still.Vocational training should now be viewed as something that happens after sixth year, or after further education. There is a contradiction between the Executive's aspiration to seek several thousand more modern apprenticeships, and its encouragement of young people—and their parents—to aspire to continued education. People must think about that—we are fishing from the same pool."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 156427,
      "EditedText": "Marilyn Livingstone made a point about guidance in schools, but it is important to remember that guidance is also essential in colleges. Many young people are going to college at 16 and 17 who would still be part of a guidance structure had they remained in school. Colleges are addressing that—it is as important as guidance at school, particularly for those who are going on to modern apprenticeships. If they do not get that guidance, there is a danger that they will go on to higher education when at that point it might be better for them to step off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 156429,
      "EditedText": "Much as I would like to say that there is 100 per cent coverage, it is unlikely that that is the case. For a number of reasons, there will be young people who slip through the net. That can be related to school attendance. Others might feel assured about the direction in which they are going, and that that support is not necessary. They might, however, want to come back to that guidance later when they are thinking about other changes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 156430,
      "EditedText": "I was in industry for 27 years and I employed 500 people, and in all that time I never had any contact with careers guidance. I would like to ask specifically about the apprenticeships. I found that the best method was to take a youngster of 16 who wanted to leave school and enter work. Some streaming took place at that point, because we wanted people who could read and write, which was sometimes difficult. We really did not want people wearing earrings and white socks—but that is, perhaps, just a personal prejudice.Do not the witnesses feel that it is preferable for a young person to go into an apprenticeship at 16 and become qualified at 19 or 20, rather than have them go to an FE college and spend two years there before realising that they will not get anywhere? Those people would then have to try to re-enter the apprenticeship market at 18 or 19. My company certainly discriminated against such people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 156431,
      "EditedText": "I would like to say something about Mr Johnston's lack of contact with the careers service. Since using FAST-TRAC as a model, we no longer use managing agents as intermediaries and we have had much more direct contact with employers in Fife in the past couple of years. Sometimes in the past, because of the use of intermediaries, employers did not appreciate that the young people being presented had come from the careers service.Oriel Training Services, which operates in Fife, has found that the young people who present for apprenticeships at 17 and 18 tend to be mature and can settle into their apprenticeship better than 16-year-olds. They can work through their ideas and are more focused on what they want to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 156435,
      "EditedText": "Can we have practical examples translated into questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 156437,
      "EditedText": "I am not familiar with that model, but I am familiar with Elmwood College in Fife, which provides national certificate courses. That college has high success rates for placing students in industry because they have good practical skills."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 156438,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to comment on the link between staying at school, going on to FE and HE, and modern apprenticeships. There are many pilot schemes in which achievement of a higher national certificate will underpin a larger part of the modern apprenticeship. Vocational skills need only be topped up. I have worked in the administration of HE and FE. If a student did an HNC, then went on to do a modern apprenticeship, Napier University would exempt them from the first year of a degree course in their subject. It is important that what people do is seen as part of a framework. Allan Wilson is right about modern apprenticeships—they should be a building block. That is what we are striving for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 156440,
      "EditedText": "Marilyn has given us an example of training that was done elsewhere being recognised in an institution. How good is the recognition process? How comprehensive is the facility for skills acquired in one place to be recognised and acknowledged in another part of the education system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Waddell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 156444,
      "EditedText": "On the clarity of articulation routes, I am confident that we make it clear to young people what qualifications they have to achieve and where they can acquire them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Waddell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 156448,
      "EditedText": "Elements of the process are user friendly, but for a young person to understand the implications of career decisions takes time working on those issues. Before you came in, we were arguing that, possibly, young people are not given enough time while they are still at school to understand all the implications of the decisions that they are about to make."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156451",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 156451,
      "EditedText": "An initiative in Fife with which we are involved is the development of the opportunity centres, which would be one-stop shops for people seeking guidance. Instead of adults coming in for information and feeling as if they should apologise for using the facilities, as some do at present, they would feel that the facilities were for all members of the public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 156455,
      "EditedText": "Although I am very sorry for your tragic history, convener, you should hear my sad story. I needed advice when I was 15 or 16. I needed continuity from then until I started having babies, which was quite young, but we do not need to get into that. I am surprised to hear that there is an artificial break between school and afterwards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156461",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 156461,
      "EditedText": "I think that, other than in Orkney, it is unique."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 156464,
      "EditedText": "I have one final question. You mentioned that the careers service was involved with other partners—local enterprise companies and the Employment Service—in the gathering of data on labour market information and trends in a given area. You also mentioned the role of education and business partnerships that exist locally. To what extent do they interrelate effectively? Do they address some of the core questions, such as whether we have a clear concept of our expectations of labour market patterns, and whether we are able to respond—through the various institutions that are involved—positively and learn from the lessons that emerge from that gathering of data?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Waddell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 156468,
      "EditedText": "Some consideration must be given to the bottom 20 per cent of school leavers, who seem to struggle to find an appropriate destination for themselves, whether a college place or a place with an employer. A large number of young people are having great difficulty making that transition, and that must be addressed by a number of different people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 156471,
      "EditedText": "There is now a plethora of training programmes, each of which has different requirements, rules and regulations. They can be complex both for young people who are undergoing training and for training providers. Training providers tell me that they can be sitting in a room with three people who are largely undertaking the same form of training—working towards the same qualification—but who are subject to quite different payment regulations and holiday entitlements: one may be training for work; another on the new deal programme; another a skillseeker. They ask why that should be. That must be given some consideration."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C156475",
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      "ContributionID": 156475,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156476",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 156476,
      "EditedText": "I welcome representatives of the National Union of Students. I ask Richard Baker, the president of the union, to introduce himself and his colleague.I understand that your other colleague has been delayed."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C156477",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Richard Baker (National Union of Students): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 156477,
      "EditedText": "We are waiting for a colleague from Inverness, Mary Middleton, who is the president of Inverness College student association. She is also involved in the University of the Highlands and Islands. It will be good for us to have somebody who is at the chalk face of the issues that we will be discussing this morning. Unfortunately, as she is travelling from up north, she will be slightly delayed.My name is Richard Baker, and I am the president of NUS Scotland. Next to me is Kenryck Lloyd Jones, our Scottish affairs officer who deals with our relations with the Parliament. It is the first time that we have given evidence to a committee of the Parliament, and we are happy to be doing so to this committee. Thank you for the invitation. We hope to give evidence to the committee again in the new year, on the issue of student finance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 156478,
      "EditedText": "You are very welcome, Richard. I am glad that it is the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee to which you are making your first presentation, and on this important subject. As you will appreciate, we are undertaking an inquiry into the delivery of local business support and vocational education and training services, and the way in which those services are integrated. We are particularly interested in hearing the views of consumers about the delivery and availability of those services.Please outline any feedback that you have had from student organisations or from your own members about the flexibility of the provision of vocational training services. It seems that a comprehensive range of services is available, but does it meet the real demand?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156480",
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      "ID": 825
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenryck Lloyd Jones (National Union of Students): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 156480,
      "EditedText": "We think that access to information is crucial. My research shows that there are numerous websites devoted to the input of business in industry, but that even Scottish Enterprise's site has no section dealing with education and training. Looking further afield, there is a website called GETS—a Guide to Education and Training in Scotland—that gives brief information. We would like a website to advise people who are looking for education and training, but that seems to be outside the scope of the current Scottish Enterprise and further education system, although I understand that a network site is being developed independently. People should be able, through their local library, for example, to access information on what courses are available in what colleges throughout their area. Sometimes there will be only one college and that would be the obvious place to look, but we would like more information to be available. Our submission mentions students' need for such information prior to entering courses and when they leave them. Those are distinct and separate needs, rather than a general need for information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C156486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 156486,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned difficulties finding out what courses are available. Some of that would come under the auspices of the university for industry when it is up and running. How do you feel about the sort of support and guidance that students can obtain while they are in further education? Do you think it adequate, or is there a need for more advice about the most suitable courses throughout the period of further education and beyond?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156488",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 156488,
      "EditedText": "Is the problem attributable to the quality of information available to students at school, before they go on to college?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156489",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Baker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 156489,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point. There are resources for making people aware of what courses are available. There are websites, but a lot of people do not know of their existence. Money is being made available, but more effort needs to go into pointing out what facilities are available. For example, many students are not aware of the training access point system. If things exist, we should be advertising them."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156490",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 156490,
      "EditedText": "They do not know about it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156494",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 156494,
      "EditedText": "Do students feel that businesses engage enough with higher and further education, by speaking to students and articulating what they are looking for when students finish their courses, or is there still a yawning chasm between the business community and the higher and further education sectors? That is crucial, if links are to be put in place."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156498",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Baker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 156498,
      "EditedText": "Many times I have heard employers say, \"The students that we get are not trained properly for us and we have to spend so much money retraining them.\" It is probably true, in Scotland, that business spends more on training than does the Government. Business spends more on training its workers than the Government spends on higher education. There is not a good enough link between the business community and the courses that are run in colleges, with regard to what business wants as a product."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156503",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 156503,
      "EditedText": "Is not the issue how you gather the information about the demand, and how the plethora of provision responds to that demand in a way that satisfies the needs of your members or consumers, or organisations such as the Confederation of British Industry and the Federation of Small Businesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 156506,
      "EditedText": "My point concerns access, and subsequent guidance and support. I suspect that your membership base will change over the years, given our joint promotion of the principle of seamless lifelong learning. Do you detect any demand from adults who are re-entering the labour market for guidance and support that differs intrinsically from that which is available to 16 to 24-year-olds?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156508",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 156508,
      "EditedText": "Access is important, but so is the outcome. As you said, in certain communities we trained people for specific jobs and, for example, some of them worked for 20 years as welders. That gave the communities good money over those 20 years and the outcome was successful. There was a point in going back to college—the communities benefited. My colleagues did not all travel up from the west of Scotland and take those jobs.I am more interested in access. This morning we talked about almost a Cinderella service, and I feel strongly that that is how things are. With regard to education, we have heard that the NUS does not know what is happening because it does not have a good network that feeds back information. I hoped that we would find some sort of agenda. I am aware of the NUS's agenda on other matters, but what is its agenda for mature students? What barriers stop those students going back to college?How can we increase access for people returning to education? How can we provide students with a choice, when there are many pressures on them—pressure to take courses just to get bums on seats or pressure from businessmen who want to know what colour of socks they wear?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 156514,
      "EditedText": "Are you asking whether there are methods of collaboration?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Baker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 156520,
      "EditedText": "About the disparity—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Middleton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 156524,
      "EditedText": "My experience of student associations in further education is that the provision is minuscule in most colleges. We are lucky in Inverness to have a lot of support between management and the student association. However, that support does not involve the business community, which is an important point. I am aware that there is contact between schools and the business community, which is quite a useful way to go. If people are making such contact before they start further education, they have some idea of what they need to get out of further education to go back into that area of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C156525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 156525,
      "EditedText": "The main issue is the development of transferable skills. However, that does not involve only those transferable skills that students can learn from within their courses—they are aware of the skills that they gain as they study. The business community must be aware of the transferable skills that they require from their work force. The main issue is bringing those two areas together, which is difficult. It is less simple than it sounds to make those skills apparent, but it is an important part of the structure of a course. It touches on what Mary said about students being trained and offering skills. Is it your experience of being trained that you have something to offer when you move on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Middleton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 156526,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is about helping people to engage in the process of learning and to take ownership of that. That also applies to students taking ownership of what is going on in the college and being aware of how the institution works. That could extend into students being aware of what is going on in the business community."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 156533,
      "EditedText": "There must be a degree of central steering as well as local initiatives. Local initiatives often start up because there is a central steer that local initiatives would be a good thing. In most fields, and certainly in education, a degree of central steering is required to get the ball rolling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 156534,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in what you were saying and I agree. I emphasise that we are examining further education and a slight correction is that means-tested bursaries exist in further education. We are also examining the new deal and skillseekers.This question is for Ms Middleton. I come from a further and higher education college background and I know that many colleges are worried about their retention rate, especially in further education. The retention rate in further education is much worse than it is in higher education. Often that is somebody's first step back into education, whether it is a mature student or a young person. Why do you think that there is still such a problem with the retention rate in further education?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Middleton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 156535,
      "EditedText": "People do not take ownership of the institute and the course that they are on. They do not feel that they have a voice. Students must have an input and be listened to; for example, through the class rep scheme where they sit on course team meetings and have real input and can say what is working. That can work very well.The other issue is funding. Although there is bursary funding, the huge uptake in access funding this year, as it is now available to all age groups, has shown that the funding is not adequate. We have a small welfare fund and students come to me and say, \"Can I have my bus fare home?\" They have had to walk into college.There is a real problem with younger students, in that they may be on a year course and they never engage with the idea of what they are doing there. They get to the end of it and walk away because they have not taken on board what they are doing there. It has been suggested to me that there should be some sort of sixth form, as there is in the English system, so that young students do another year before they go into FE. The transition between school and FE seems to cause problems for lots of younger students."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 156540,
      "EditedText": "Yes. There is a degree of confusion and a desire for information. However, too much information without clear pointers and guidance may also be a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156544",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 156544,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156545",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 156545,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 156546,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the representatives of the Scottish Trades Union Congress, including Grahame Smith. I ask him to introduce his team. We will then move to questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156556",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Court: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 156556,
      "EditedText": "A major benefit is that the workers have received a clear message that the management is prepared to invest in them and is committed to their personal development.The economic returns have been sensational. Because of the development of the work force, the company can work 24 hours a day, seven days a week. From 5 o'clock on Friday until 7 o'clock on Monday morning, there are no managers in the factory apart from one site manager who is there simply because the law requires him to be. The work force has responsibility for the running of the factory. When things do not go right, the teams are able to come up with solutions.Before the philosophical change was made, the work force was not equipped to think laterally and do things differently. The change has allowed the company to become more efficient. We have had to accept that the extra efficiency has meant that fewer people are employed. That is the nature of industry. We have to be competitive. However, the workers enjoy their jobs more now because of the responsibility that they have been given."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156550",
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    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Peter Court (Scottish Trades Union Congress): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 156550,
      "EditedText": "I am Peter Court from Michelin Tyre in Dundee. Michelin Tyre is a multinational company. We have four factories in the United Kingdom, but I will talk specifically about the Dundee plant.Some time ago, the company decided to change its philosophy and to restructure how it went about its business to pursue the company's business interests. We are not competing only against other tyre manufacturers but against others in the Michelin chain. The company decided that its people were its fundamental asset. Gone were the days of asking members of the work force to hang their brains on the gate when they came in, do their job and then leave. The company decided to invest in its people.Thus, a whole new philosophy was started, which focused on education and lifelong learning. A whole host of aspects of training and lifelong learning were introduced, not just workplace training, for which there is a huge budget, but apprenticeships, additional skills training for engineers and a range of employment training.Employees were also encouraged to participate in whatever form of external education they wanted. An education centre was set up in the factory so that employees could tap into all sorts of information and decide what they wanted to do outside the workplace. As a result, we have had everything from qualified, time-served engineers doing engineering degrees, to a couple of guys doing residential courses with the mountain rescue squad, who are now on call for Tayside mountain rescue team, and everything in between: languages, IT training and all sorts of other things.The philosophy behind the move was that the company wanted its work force to see that it was prepared to invest in its people, that it believed in them and that it believed that they would come back better equipped, better trained and more knowledgeable. The aim was for people to deal with the problems facing our industry in the workplace. That is what has happened. The results can be seen. The company is not a charity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Court: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 156552,
      "EditedText": "It was done mainly to meet a business requirement, but once the company decided to invest in its people, it set up a chain of networks with the education establishments in the city: various colleges, both universities and so on. The company encouraged people to get on board. People from the colleges were brought to the factory and an information centre has been set up. The decision was industry based to begin with, but the commitment is real.There is huge pressure on the training budget—£1.7 million was spent last year on on-plant and off-plant training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 156555,
      "EditedText": "Is that unique in Scotland, or are a number of companies involved in that type of initiative? Given that the company is spending a lot of money on education, what benefits has the initiative delivered in terms of the skill levels of the work force? Has the company become more efficient or been able to employ fewer workers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 156567,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point. I compliment the success of the ventures that you have mentioned in delivering skill-based training from which employees and businesses benefit. Does not that tell us something about the amount of money that we are spending on a plethora of training agencies, organisations and colleges requiring the partnership that you have discussed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Donaldson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 156568,
      "EditedText": "There seems to be a gap between education and business needs. That leaves people in a vulnerable situation. In many of the workplaces where we are working, the majority of people are 35 to 45 years old; they have been out of formal education for a long time and are frightened because they think that it is exam based. The fear factor is tremendous. Giving people foundation skills allows them to see their own success—it gives them self-confidence and increases their self-esteem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 156569,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that we are getting into the subject. You can imagine our frustration after listening to weeks of evidence about access to colleges and funding and so on. I appreciate the difficulty of your task of responding quickly to create a learning environment that ensures the continued success and survival of the company. Do you want to say anything about the co-ordination of providers? The colleges are not there when they are needed, the funding takes too long to put in place and employers must press on. Do you have any comments on the gaps and how we can work with colleges better to ensure that they respond more quickly? What can we do to promote workplace learning and to emphasise the good practice of the trade unions in working with employers to deliver that? We want to encourage other employers to do similar good work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 156570,
      "EditedText": "I will make a few comments before passing over to my colleagues, who have more practical experience in that area. Perhaps I may speak as someone who manages a small business—the STUC, which does not have many employees. Our experience of working with colleges to train our staff has been very good. We have talked to the college about providing training flexibly, on our premises and tailored to our needs. It has responded effectively. I do not know whether that is related to the fact that I am a member of the college's board of management. There have been many problems in further education over the past few years—we could spend a whole meeting talking about them. Perhaps it is because of such problems that colleges have not kept their eye on the ball in relation to workplace training.Duncan McNeil hoped to be relieved of whinges about funding, but funding is an important issue. The lack of funding for training people in employment is a huge problem. Employers should invest in training their work forces, but in many cases they do not. They need to be encouraged with funding from public sources to make that happen.There are grounds for some sort of Scottish strategic forum to address the issue of workplace training and to consider good practice and how it can be disseminated. We need to know how employers and employees can be given greater encouragement to address the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 156574,
      "EditedText": "In Norma Falconer, we have with us someone who has been part of the return to learn scheme. She may be able to deal with some of Dr Murray's questions by describing how she got back into learning after a long time away."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Norma Falconer (Scottish Trades Union Congress): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 156575,
      "EditedText": "I received a brochure on the return to learn course at the hospital department where I work. The qualification it offered was lower than the one I had—I have a higher in English—but I did not have the confidence to get back into education. I took the course, which was mostly in communications skills. It started in February and finished in October. From that, I became aware of courses being offered at Telford College, and I am now participating in an HNC course in administration and information management. I have had to struggle to get my employer's backing for that. I am doing the course through open learning, and it has been made clear that I must bring what I have learnt into my work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 156576,
      "EditedText": "You also gained access in a reactive way—the brochure just happened to arrive on your desk. There was no contact point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 156578,
      "EditedText": "It is important to mention that the course in which Norma became involved was run by her trade union, Unison. Unison put the course together as a way of introducing people to education, after identifying some of the issues that its members face when getting back into education after a long period away. If employers were far-sighted, they would see the advantages of such training and look to continue the development of their staff, who have taken the initial step through the return to learn programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 156587,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer your first question, about the percentage of companies—I do not know whether the figures exist or whether research is being done. There will be statistics on the number of employees who are covered by workplace training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 156584,
      "EditedText": "Who should facilitate that process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Donaldson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 156585,
      "EditedText": "It should be done by companies, under pressure from us; or by the Government; or by some lead body that could be set up to co-ordinate the process. We are running a project in the north—project osprey—that is pooling major companies and small start-up companies to try to facilitate support mechanisms to help companies through the embryonic stage of their development, offering training and access to all sorts of information. That can be done only through having a database and co-ordinated networking. It may well be one way of satisfying the needs of smaller businesses that are not in competition with the larger ones; and some of the corporate citizenship that the larger companies might wish to show could be made use of."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156589",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 156589,
      "EditedText": "As a follow-up to your evidence today, the committee would appreciate some information on best practice, concerning which you have raised a number of interesting issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 156593,
      "EditedText": "Was that delivered in the factory itself?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 156606,
      "EditedText": "Harry, you said that there has been a movement throughout Scotland for education of the work force—that is most encouraging to hear. However, Peter Court's experience contrasts sharply with that of Norma Falconer. Is there a facility or an opportunity for a lateral communication process from workplace to workplace? Clearly, what Norma encountered was implacable and discouraging, whereas what Peter encountered has been positive and heartening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 156614,
      "EditedText": "We have heard a lot about guidance and support. The Employment Service, through the personal advisers and the gateway, has a great deal of influence. Many of your staff had to change their focus and emphasis to undertake those duties. There was a focused staff development programme. What training is on-going, and do you think that it has been successful? In other words, do you think that the guidance and support for the personal advisers is what is required?In much of the evidence that we have taken, the criticism that has been levelled at the new deal programme concerns the bureaucracy and the forms that must be filled in. Will you address both those issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 156617,
      "EditedText": "Even so, people will always want the Employment Service and my parent department, the Department for Education and Employment, to do better. I suspect that we will continue—quite rightly—to be put under that pressure. Interruption."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 156623,
      "EditedText": "I will ask the clerks to pursue that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 156627,
      "EditedText": "I have three questions. First, I would like to know whether you have any indication of the cost of each new job created. Secondly, the other day I asked the minister how many people were still in gateway after six months—I imagine that that figure is fairly easily available. Thirdly, I am worried about the people who fall through the net in the schemes and would like to know what will happen to those who are still unemployable after six months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 156628,
      "EditedText": "I should make the point before we go any further that our inquiry has a defined remit. Some of the questions that are being asked are not directly related to that remit, but are more about the new deal programme. I will allow the questions that Mr Johnston has asked to be answered, but I will scrutinise questions a little more carefully during the remainder of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 156629,
      "EditedText": "The first question was about the average cost of someone securing a job through the new deal. You are presumably asking how much it costs to place someone through the programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 156631,
      "EditedText": "I cannot provide an answer off the cuff, but we can certainly look into it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 156633,
      "EditedText": "That, again, is information that we have. I do not know whether Charlie has the figures with him, but if not we can certainly provide them later. This is something that we monitor closely, as you might imagine. Were you also asking about those people who had been on the new deal and remained unemployed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 156635,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, the programme has now been running long enough for some people to have moved from gateway or the options on to what is called follow-through. Since the new deal started, the Government has been conscious that not everyone will end up in sustained work through gateway or the options.The provision that is available in follow-through has become more extensive as we have come to realise how many people still need help, even after they have been through the new deal. We have put in place some very supportive measures, including opportunities for people to undertake further training and for local partnerships to design individual elements of follow-through to suit the circumstances of their clients locally. Funding is available to support those programmes. We can let you have information on the numbers that you were seeking and provide you with a description of the provision that is available in follow-through, if that would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 156638,
      "EditedText": "Of all the Government programmes in which I have been involved, none has had as extensive an evaluation programme of work. That programme is under way. People can see what is happening and whether changes need to be made. That information has also been published, to some extent. In my experience, that has not happened with previous programmes. You asked about, in particular, the views of people who had been on what we call the full-time education and training option of new deal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 156639,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 156640,
      "EditedText": "Statistics indicate how many people have taken that option, how many have gone on to get jobs and what qualifications they have obtained. We will get in contact with those who are in charge of the evaluation strands of new deal to see what information they have on the experience and opinions of young people who have been through the programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 156641,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that there has been no attempt to do a quantitative assessment of the experiences of people who have been on the new deal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 156645,
      "EditedText": "I want to move one step back to ask about the initial advice that people are given. At the moment, they come in for interview on a voluntary basis. Who gives the careers advice, and where is that done? Do they come into the job centre—I nearly called it the buroo."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 156647,
      "EditedText": "Who gives that advice, and how is it given?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 156652,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I can offer an expert opinion on that. As members will know from their own knowledge and deliberations, the local enterprise companies all have their own requirement to have a certain proportion of employer representatives on their boards. It could be argued that arrangements are in place in Scotland whereby employers have a strong local voice on what the local enterprise companies provide by way of training in their respective patches. The new deal partnerships will all have employer representatives on them, so there is also an input there. I am not sure that I can say much more than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 156657,
      "EditedText": "I should have asked you a question mentioning that it was your birthday, Eileen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ID": 3551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 568.0,
      "ContributionID": 156660,
      "EditedText": "The amendment to the work programme makes sense. I am wholly in favour of appointing three reporters to lead small groups of members to undertake a case study and to visit local areas. That was suggested as a possible means of inquiry by people who have given evidence. It has much to commend it. The amendment would free up two single-session inquiries. One case study must be on local economic development services; the other must be on workplace training. We had thought of considering what might be construed as good practice in local economic development services: we could choose a good example of a local enterprise company using best practice, to see how it operates in its locality. That might be a suitable subject for one case study."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 574.0,
      "ContributionID": 156663,
      "EditedText": "The committee itself will have to agree on the members chosen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ID": 3551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 156665,
      "EditedText": "The second recommendation is:\"The committee authorises the convener to approach the Conveners' Liaison Group for endorsement.\"Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3552,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 589.0,
      "ContributionID": 156670,
      "EditedText": "Do you, convener, have any idea when the Executive will publish the paper on that? Will that happen in the new year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3552,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 601.0,
      "ContributionID": 156676,
      "EditedText": "Duncan McNeil has raised an interesting issue. Should we scrutinise a tourism strategy that has been published in a glossy document? What impact could we have on that? The Government will have announced that as its strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3552,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 612.0,
      "ContributionID": 156681,
      "EditedText": "The Executive has informally offered members of the committee a draft copy of the review document before it becomes public. However, that might affect whether we discuss it in public or in private.We have sought dates for the petrol pricing inquiry, and for some initial work on the semiconductor industry. Alternate Wednesdays in January and February—for which members expressed a preference—are all filled by other committees. A number of committees are dealing with legislation early next year and will be meeting regularly. If the committee undertakes such work, it should be looking to meet on Mondays or Fridays."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3552,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 616.0,
      "ContributionID": 156683,
      "EditedText": "The problem is more to do with the Parliament's resources for recording meetings and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C156678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 605.0,
      "ContributionID": 156678,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we should look at the tourism review in January. The Executive's original aim was that the review be completed around the end of the year, but—perhaps, understandably—things have slipped since then. Would not it be better if the committee gave its input on tourism before the glossy leaflet is published? Will we have access to submissions other than those that are confidential? There will be many submissions; for the committee to do a proper job on the tourism review, we should have access to the submissions, a summary of them or both."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:02.9509109+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 24 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 156383,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:37"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 156387,
      "EditedText": "We see ourselves largely as a signposting organisation. We discuss the range of opportunities that are available, in particular with young people, but also with adults in different parts of the country. However, from our knowledge of the client group, we are also able to indicate to the providers the level of interest in various types of opportunity. We can also interpret what is happening in the labour market and share that information with opportunity providers, so that they can meet those needs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 156389,
      "EditedText": "There are always differences of opinion among providers about the available information. If we cut to the chase, most of the discussion would be with the enterprise companies on training provision, and a balance has to be struck between the needs of the labour market and the aspirations of clients. Local enterprise companies exist to meet the needs of the local labour market. Sometimes, we have a broader remit and outlook, which tries to recognise the national labour market. Young people who aspire to that market may have different interests and training demands, because they are seeking a labour market that is furth of their immediate area. Tension sometimes exists, but we have regular discussions and opportunities arise to discuss those aspects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 156396,
      "EditedText": "Was that the council scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 156397,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It was not taken forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 156398,
      "EditedText": "A new pilot is about to start. One course will be run at each college. I know that the one at Glenrothes is a catering course, starting in January. That will be interesting, as it harks back to a model from a few years ago, the multi-skills engineering model, which involved an out-placement between periods spent attending college."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 156399,
      "EditedText": "The key is that there should be some flexibility in approach and discretion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 156401,
      "EditedText": "My second point related to preparation in schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Waddell (Careers Guidance Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 156403,
      "EditedText": "That is a real danger because the focus, particularly in senior schools, will be on the development of higher still and on young people studying academic subjects. We should make it clear that schools are responsible for delivering careers education. Our primary responsibility is the provision of careers guidance services, but that cannot be done in isolation; it has to be backed up by a high-quality careers education programme in schools. We need to bear in mind the amount of input a careers adviser can have—we may see a young person only for a relatively brief period during their fourth, fifth and sixth years in school. Unless schools are doing a lot of support work with those young people on decision making, self-awareness and opportunity awareness, we are unlikely to have a significant impact. I am very concerned about the quality of careers education in schools and how that will be affected by the introduction of higher still."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 156404,
      "EditedText": "That raises an interesting issue that underpins much of what we are considering in this inquiry. We are trying to look at the world from the perspective of the consumer. You have said that information may not be clearly available to a 16-year-old consumer seeking guidance on the world of training and employment, or that there is insufficient emphasis on that in the school curriculum. Have I understood you correctly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 156406,
      "EditedText": "Mr Barron, you referred to knowledge of client demand. Is the client the youngster?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 156409,
      "EditedText": "The institute is a professional body and, as such, its interests are its members and providing people with information—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 156413,
      "EditedText": "We and all the companies have links with the chambers of commerce, in a number of different ways. First, we are members of the chambers of commerce. Secondly, chambers of commerce are often training providers in local areas. Thirdly, we have links with them through various partnership groups, such as new deal partnerships and vocational education and training partnerships."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 156414,
      "EditedText": "My next question follows on from Marilyn Livingstone's point. As a committee, we are anxious to establish whether there is a free flow of information both ways at local level, and what you have told me is extremely interesting. If you find from your consultations that there may be a gap between what schools are providing and what is needed by the labour market, can you influence what schools are doing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 156416,
      "EditedText": "If you detected from employers in the area a concern that standards of numeracy and literacy were below the levels that they required—I am not in any way impugning education standards in Fife, about which I know nothing—could you do anything about that, in a proactive sense?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 156418,
      "EditedText": "But you could play a role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 156422,
      "EditedText": "As a careers adviser, I would be failing in my job if I did not make young people aware of the availability of jobs in the career that they have identified as their ideal. I want to explain to them how they can go about achieving their goals, but also to broaden their understanding of what is available.When we dealt with the Manpower Services Commission, it asked how many people were leaving school and what school leavers wanted to do. The MSC then contracted with managing agents and providers to match that need. The main benefit of the FAST-TRAC model is that it is market-driven—we are feeding back information to young people as well as telling FAST-TRAC what school leavers are likely to want to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 156425,
      "EditedText": "Does not that increase opportunity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 156426,
      "EditedText": "The vocational route should come after FE input. That is increasingly appropriate. Young people who aspire to a modern apprenticeship often do a period of further education to develop their skills and knowledge before entering an apprenticeship."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 156428,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone slip through the net? Are there people who are not in receipt of the appropriate guidance at school, at college or subsequently?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Waddell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 156433,
      "EditedText": "What we feel is immaterial. We might think that we know what the correct action is for a young person to take, but at the end of the day, what is important is what the young person feels is most appropriate. We find it difficult to promote the route that Mr Johnston mentioned because the culture encourages staying in education. That is what young people want, that is what their parents want and that is what schools promote. Local colleges are marketing that idea heavily. We might advise large numbers of young people, but do they take cognisance of our advice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156441",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 156441,
      "EditedText": "I have no detailed knowledge that would provide an accurate answer to that question, but my impression is that cognisance is not always taken of what students have done in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 156445,
      "EditedText": "Is the compatibility of courses and educational opportunities in different institutions made clear to young people? Is that information readily accessible to the careers service? Does it hang together, or is it a difficult process to signpost?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Waddell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 156446,
      "EditedText": "It is a difficult process for the young person to go through, as the routes are complex. We are very clear about what is available, but the difficulty lies in the process of the young person understanding it and making it relevant to their situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 156447,
      "EditedText": "So it is not user friendly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C156450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 156450,
      "EditedText": "Could you expand a little on that point? Is there a need for the service to span a much longer period of younger people's lives as they go through various transitions? The service should maybe start earlier—it is possible that young people will have lost hope by the time they receive careers guidance—and take young people through further education, so that they can come back to a source of advice that already has a record or their interests and skills."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 156452,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps you could tell us about opportunity centres, as they sound like the Employment Service equivalent of business shops."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 156453,
      "EditedText": "At present, the client group that you pay for is any individual in school or college, any 16-year-old or 17-year-old, and any person of any age with a disability. That is the statutory requirement, but there is a permissive capability to see young people up to the age of 24. That creates curious anomalies. For example, Beth Hall could give someone careers advice on the day they started college, but not before they had chosen their course.I have no doubt that the careers service review group will consider the requirement for continuing guidance as people make various transitions throughout their lives, particularly in the context of the lifelong learning agenda. I notice a number of people in this room who have had career movements as they have gone through life; whether they would have benefited from careers guidance is another matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 156454,
      "EditedText": "I have to tell you that that was the wrong thing to say as some of us fear having careers guidance forced upon us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Barron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 156456,
      "EditedText": "I agree. Sixteen-year-olds and 17-year-olds have no experience and need people to help them and to ease the transition that they are making. That is critical, but people returning to labour markets, which, as we know, can change radically over five or 10 years, also need support. They may have to upgrade their skills and need advice on the best areas to develop. I appreciate your point, but I would not underestimate the need for guidance later on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 156457,
      "EditedText": "I do not underestimate it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 156458,
      "EditedText": "There is uncertainty about whether a single point of access to advice is available. How easily accessible are the services that you have mentioned? The concept of an opportunity shop—a single place where the map of available services can be accessed—is an interesting one to explore. Does that exist across the board or only in one part of the country?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 156460,
      "EditedText": "How different is that from what happens in the rest of the country?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 156466,
      "EditedText": "In summary, you have given us a full explanation of how all this works. Is there anything that you think can be improved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 156469,
      "EditedText": "What are the problems? Are they wider social issues, or are there aspects of provision and access to information that require to be improved to address those difficulties?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Waddell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 156470,
      "EditedText": "You have answered the question. Yes, the difficulty is that there is a lack of suitable provision, a lack of guidance for young people in making the appropriate choices and a lack of support for the critical transitional age of 16. Those are all creating difficulties and must be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156472",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 156472,
      "EditedText": "I thank Mr Barron, Mr Waddell and Mrs Hall for attending the meeting today and for giving their opinions and answering our questions. We appreciate the contribution that they have made to the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156474",
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 156474,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 156481,
      "EditedText": "Is the training access point service still operational? There was a Scottish database of every course in Scotland and people could access it from all sorts of places. It was operated through the enterprise system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 156483,
      "EditedText": "It was. Is it still there? If the information is there, it could be used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 156487,
      "EditedText": "A great deal more needs to be done in terms of guidance and support. The funding system encourages colleges to get lots of students on their courses. That can lead to the temptation—I will call it merely that—to say, \"Yes, yes. Come and do this course. It's really what you're looking for.\" That can lead to a greater sense of disillusionment. It may be better at the outset to consider what people want and say, \"Maybe we can't provide that specifically, but we can provide another course that may be of advantage to you.\"The bums-on-seats mentality leads to colleges saying yes to every question and repenting later. Every week, we speak to students who feel, for one reason or another, a sense of grievance. They have nowhere to take their grievances, because student associations are so grossly underfunded in further education, compared with higher education. In our view, that is in itself a form of social exclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Baker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 156491,
      "EditedText": "Organisations such as ours, especially if given funding, would be willing to publicise those things. We do our best but, as Kenryck said, there are problems of resourcing local student associations. Often, student associations have just one member of staff, or none at all, especially in smaller colleges. Those staff must do everything, including advising students. It is an impossible situation. Student services and careers guidance are available in colleges, but only a small proportion of students know about them or make proper use of them. Those services are also hard pressed, and more money must be invested in them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 156493,
      "EditedText": "It is important that people who come through the system and gain qualifications are provided with the means of relating the activities that they have engaged in to their employability in the marketplace. That need is not unique to vocational education. It is true of all education that there is not a good way of translating what has been learnt during a period of education into the skills that will have to be developed for employers. Sometimes, the simplest thing can be the most useful. For example, if one has spent a lot of time writing essays, one has been developing communications skills. If one has spent time using computers, one has information technology skills. Students need to be given the opportunity to reflect on the skills that they have developed and how they can help them in the job market. Very often, the ability to articulate the skills that they have can improve students' employment prospects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Baker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 156495,
      "EditedText": "On a more general point, business has had an input to the management and delivery of further education. For years, we have been encouraging people in the business community to sit on boards of management, and boards have many business people on them. However, that does not amount to contact with the people who deliver the courses and the students who study them. Mary Middleton is at the chalk face more than I am."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 156496,
      "EditedText": "Before we continue, I welcome Mary to the committee. Please carry on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Mary Middleton (National Union of Students): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 156497,
      "EditedText": "My name is Mary Middleton and I am from Inverness College. The first time that I sat on the board of management at Inverness College, board members talked about going out and meeting the people, so the will is there. However, that has not happened, although we invite people to events such as our freshers fair event. The businessmen on the board often come in just for the meetings. It remains to be seen what will happen. We have training going on next week, so I hope to have input into the training of the board of management."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 156499,
      "EditedText": "That gets to the nub of our area of interest. How do we tackle that problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 156501,
      "EditedText": "I would hope that the inclusion of businessmen or women on boards of management has more to do with the good management of the enterprise or the college than with establishing a link between business and education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Baker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 156502,
      "EditedText": "I accept that point, and I was about to say that businessmen and women are also on boards to assist with management, but of course the boards also have overall control of matters such as the provision of courses. The board of management is the highest board in the college and, at the moment, is the only formal link between business and education, but it does not provide enough of a link with regard to informing colleges about course delivery."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Middleton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 156505,
      "EditedText": "It worries me when people are trained for specific demands, because demands disappear. In the Highlands, whole communities have lost their jobs because a particular type of business has disappeared. In the case of students who are returning to education to retrain, it would be useful if we could say to the business community, \"We have trained people to be trainable. We have produced people who can engage in the business of being trained. You go on from there.\" Through talking to students in Inverness, I know that they need to access training and to make that training useful. Then they can convey to the business community that they are capable of being trained and that they have engaged in lifelong education. That is a far more useful outcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Middleton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 156507,
      "EditedText": "There is a huge gap in guidance and support. Through sitting in the classroom and talking with members of my association, I know that often they start a course and do not know where they are going with it. They say, \"I am doing this course, but what comes after it?\" A big gap exists between courses and career opportunities; that must be tackled.I talked to some adult returners yesterday. There is a need for an assessment of where they stand educationally and where they are going when they begin their courses. Returners said that skills for effective learning—which I studied—should be included in all courses.We have also looked at the European computer driving licence. I do not know whether anyone knows what that is. It means assessing people's computer skills before they begin their courses. Mature students say that they would like such testing of all the core skills. It would eliminate many of the difficulties that arise between different age groups and student profiles in one class."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 156511,
      "EditedText": "No one disputes that a lot of money goes into training provision in Scotland. The question is whether we know what is being done with that money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 156513,
      "EditedText": "How do we create the link between business and educationalists? You have identified the problem—do you have any idea what the solutions are?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Jones: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 156516,
      "EditedText": "I do not know of any specific examples of best practice, although I know that some large companies look carefully at education and training and the role of student development. Off the top of my head, I think that BP has taken that approach. However, such programmes need to be formalised. For example, I would like to see students on every further education course in Scotland—and, incidentally in higher education, although that might shock a lot of people—gain transferable skills and take them into the marketplace, or the world of employment. That would be better than students saying, \"I did a qualification in this subject, and that means I know a lot about it.\"Education is not merely about knowledge—if it was, a library could replace it. Education is about developing skills as clear learning objectives. Employers need to collaborate in setting the objectives of what businesses and industry are looking for in their employees. If they are looking for skills in customer care, educationalists need to consider what is involved, which may be a complex mixture of communication skills, patience, role-playing tasks and so on. Such skills could be learned at various levels—at a basic, repeat-after-me level, or at a deeper level, involving the psychology of communication interaction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 156519,
      "EditedText": "If that is the case, how do we achieve that liaison between businesses and education, Kenryck? It seems to me that the natural relationship is perhaps between the students and the business community. However, Richard said that there is a huge disparity in the provision of student association services throughout the Scottish colleges. Have you any more detailed information about that, Richard, and could you make it available to the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156528",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 156528,
      "EditedText": "Do you agree that a change of attitude is needed on the part of the employer? In a big company, an employer may take on a graduate lawyer and not expect that person's skills to be honed to perfection to accomplish the tasks that will be set for him or her. However, the employer may expect a college leaver who comes to look after the heating system to have the ready-made skills to accomplish that task, instead of understanding that that person will also need to undergo a period of post-graduate training in the same way as any professional would."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Middleton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 156538,
      "EditedText": "You can get access funding for child care, but people do not know for sure that they will get that funding. They have to start the course, get child care organised and pay for it, then apply and wait for the application to go through the system. That is beyond a lot of people's means. Another problem is that child care does not cover half term or after school. Those are problems for women returners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Baker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 156542,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. We have said from the beginning that we were pleased that this is the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and that policy making brings those two matters together. We have argued for that for a long time. We still feel that education should be led by educationalists, so we do not want business to come in and handle the whole matter, but we want business to take a greater responsibility in funding tertiary education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 156548,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Grahame. You are all very welcome. We are carrying out an inquiry into the delivery of local business support and vocational training services. Our aim is to establish, primarily from the consumer's perspective, whether the availability of services meets the requirements of individuals and businesses.We have just heard from representatives of the National Union of Students who suggested that there was a lack of linkage between the educational and business communities in assessing the requirements for skills in the marketplace. We discussed how provision for that assessment could be made either by institutions or by the wider business community. Do you agree that there is a lack of linkage? Can you highlight some examples of best practice in Scotland? We want to locate best practice so that we can begin to learn some lessons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Court: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 156554,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That includes spending on the apprenticeship training centre through to all the other initiatives. There is huge pressure for the funding—which is not called a cost; it is an investment—to be used for more plant, machinery or whatever, particularly as we export most of our product and there have been economic problems, such as the strength of the pound. There is huge pressure for that funding, but the company has not slackened its commitment to that continuing educational budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harry Donaldson (Scottish Trades Union Congress): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 156557,
      "EditedText": "The initiative is part of a wider movement in the country at the moment. As my colleague said, because of increased global competition, shorter product life-cycles and other factors in business, people have become central to the process. Today, most companies are able to have the same kit, which means that differences in efficiency are down to the work force. Employers have realised that, as people make the difference, they must invest in people.We have been working on a lot of joint projects, particularly in the food and drink industry in Scotland. The whisky industry is very traditional but has been dynamic in its involvement in training people as a key resource. There seems to be a lack of connection between education and business. People were lacking in core communication skills and in literacy and numeracy skills. Working in partnership with employers, we were able to use external providers to deliver on-site training across a broad spectrum of companies.When companies are downsizing—to use a piece of jargon—it is important to allow people to enter the labour market with specific skills to make them as employable as possible. That can be done through training and development work. One of my colleagues in this room worked with a major whisky company to deliver a project similar to the one at Michelin Tyre but whose budget was managed by the stewards. The skills training was not specifically vocational, but the payback for the employer was that people participated more as their communication skills improved. As team working has become more important, the need for people to communicate effectively in the workplace has become key. Companies that have tapped into the rich reservoir of talent that exists on the shop floor have all seen major improvements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
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    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 156560,
      "EditedText": "Could you tell us more about those examples so that we could study them with a view to possible replication elsewhere?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156566",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Donaldson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 156566,
      "EditedText": "We have been delivering not through the colleges, but through a partnership between CBI Scotland and the STUC—workbase Scotland. We have been working with trade unions and employers to deliver training packages. We have taken a focused and co-ordinated approach to deliver that at minimum cost to employers. We are providing the key skills that people need as a foundation to move on to higher education or quality skills training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156571",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Court: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 156571,
      "EditedText": "My experience of workplace training relates to Michelin Tyre in Dundee. We have a fairly large internal training centre, which is used for a range of training activities, from craft to information technology. We are fairly fortunate in that respect. Michelin is a major employer; we cannot expect the same thing from smaller employers. Annabel Goldie mentioned small employers. If, in a small company, someone is screaming for training, they tend to be told to get on with it and to learn to make do.Training in the workplace is the employer's responsibility, but for some time my colleagues and I have been considering the difficulties that positive, progressive employers face in continuing funding for lifelong learning and vocational and non-vocational training. We accept that employers should fund workplace training, but we need to examine how we can assist successful companies, as well as those that are experiencing difficulties. Funding is always a problem. When there is a limited amount for investment and somebody is screaming for new machines, new equipment or a new production line, it is a huge challenge to use that money for training. If some additional funding were available, those problems would ease and it would help companies survive. Sometimes, we fail to take action until after the horse has bolted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156579",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 156579,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that you are not speaking for the Confederation of British Industry, your partners in crime, but you must have had discussions with a full range of companies—big, medium and small—about the philosophy of training and lifelong learning. Norma's experience is particularly relevant to the question I want to ask, which relates to the turnover of employees in companies that pursue a programme of lifelong learning and continuing training.You may be able to anticipate my next question. What percentage of employers are under the impression that if, like Norma, their employees take a course in management and become qualified in that, they will lose them? Does that fear underlie employers' reluctance to think of training as an investment, in the same way as plant and so on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156580",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 156580,
      "EditedText": "You may have heard this before, but someone once said to me that they would rather have a trained employee leave than keep an untrained employee. However, there is a problem of employers losing people whom they have trained. Peter may want to say something about Michelin's experience of that and the attitude that it takes when apprentices whom it has trained find jobs elsewhere."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156588",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Donaldson: ",
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      "ContributionID": 156588,
      "EditedText": "We can give you lists."
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  {
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Court: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 156581,
      "EditedText": "For some time, because of various economic factors, Michelin has been the major employer training engineering apprentices in Dundee. It has made a commitment to take on apprentices every year—I have been with the company for 27 years, and it has taken on apprentices every year, bar one. The company has now expanded that scheme and is taking on apprentices for the area as a whole. It trains them for the first two years of the apprenticeship and then puts them out to other employers. When they finish, the apprentices have excellent skills and are a valuable commodity in the market, because there is a shortage of engineers. Employees are also encouraged to get degrees in engineering at university. The company's philosophy is that it will continue to develop its employees to their full potential. It wants to make use of those skills, but it accepts that it will lose employees. However, it believes that the commitment that it has shown to the rest of the work force is more valuable than the cost of training some people who leave to work for another employer. Michelin believes that its commitment will be returned tenfold.Earlier, you asked how employees could be encouraged to undertake training. One great factor is peer pressure. People sit in the canteen and talk about what college they are attending and what they are doing. They know that there is an open learning centre on the site, and they wander over and see what is available.Turnover of staff is a problem, but if a company does not commit itself to its work force, it is losing the fight."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4952404+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C156582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 156582,
      "EditedText": "I sometimes feel like a mole, sitting in on your debates and then reporting on them to another committee. However, that is the remit that I have been given.I have been involved with smaller companies and I support what Annabel Goldie said about them. Although I appreciate and support the initiatives that have been taken by larger companies, I endorse what she said about the difficulty smaller companies experience replacing individuals who are away on training exercises.We must be careful to distinguish between urban and rural situations. The Michelin representative described how people in Dundee have an opportunity to participate in training courses in and around the city at the various colleges and teaching establishments there. That facility is not available in much of rural Scotland. In the north-west Highlands, the biggest expense is not the cost of courses, but transport—getting people to colleges on a Monday morning, getting them back again on a Friday evening and paying for accommodation while they are there. That prevents smaller companies from participating in many of the initiatives in which they would like to be involved. Laudable as these exercises are in urban areas, we must give far more consideration to what is available in rural Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 156586,
      "EditedText": "You gave the examples of Michelin and Scottish Power. What percentage of companies does that philosophy apply to? One or 2 per cent? More than that?You also talked about delivering training, using Scottish Power and some others as examples, and said that the STUC, the CBI and Scottish Power went into a partnership. Did you have to do that because the educational establishments had provided no off-the-shelf solution that you could use? If so, what were the differences in providing training through that kind of partnership rather than doing so through formal education establishments? That seems to raise a fundamental question about state provision of education and training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 156590,
      "EditedText": "We can do that for the initiative that Harry Donaldson mentioned—workbase Scotland. That was a trade union initiative to identify any problems with core skills. Its philosophy is one of partnership and it operates on that basis. Workbase developed a model that did not previously exist and that could be used in the workplace. People go into a workplace and work with both trade unions and the employer to try to overcome the barriers that prevent individuals from participating in learning, or from returning to it.When an employer comes up with a learning initiative, a lot of people think that there must be a hidden agenda—for example, something to do with increased flexibility—so they then think that they might be out the door the following week. Giving people the confidence to participate can be a problem. Workbase attempted, in that partnership way, to give that confidence. It has, on occasion, linked into provision in further education colleges, but it has identified a need to tailor what it does for particular industries. The colleges have not been able to respond to that sort of initiative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 156595,
      "EditedText": "I am especially interested in the Michelin experience and in what Harry Donaldson said about the roll-out to the general public. I know from discussion with Scottish Power that it has widened access to the community. Interestingly, it started by offering access to its suppliers. Is Michelin doing anything like that?When you set out on the Investors in People process, what involvement did you have with the local enterprise company? What support did it give you?Before you answer that, I would like to answer Margo's point. In my company, which I have just taken through the IIP process, we reduced workplace turnover from 25 per cent a year to 11 per cent a year. That had an effect on the bottom line of a fairly small company of something like £80,000, so it clearly works."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 156597,
      "EditedText": "What do you think the impact of individual learning accounts will be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 156598,
      "EditedText": "That will depend on how they are structured. Individual learning accounts are excellent in giving individuals an entitlement to learning, but I very much doubt they will be successful if the poorest paid and lowest skilled individuals are left to operate their accounts in isolation. There are issues to be addressed concerning what sort of individual investment is required, and issues concerning the support that individuals will need to enable them to make the right choices about how they use that resource in their account. If the accounts are a way of encouraging employers to invest more in learning, that will be very positive, but we need to wait and see how they develop.We are concerned that we have not been involved in the pilots. Individual learning accounts will not succeed unless the work force is involved through the trade unions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 156603,
      "EditedText": "Getting paid for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 156604,
      "EditedText": "Getting paid for it—that is what I am struggling with. Such agencies are being paid to find solutions, when in fact expertise in the trade union sector is coming up with some of the solutions. Thank you for that input."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 156605,
      "EditedText": "It is fair to say that barriers have prevented those agencies from helping the trade union movement to take on some of the issues. We had major problems with the local enterprise companies and Scottish Enterprise in putting together our bargaining for skills project and, more recently, our lifelong learning unit project. Eventually, we resolved the problems, but there are issues around how the enterprise companies relate to the trade unions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Alan Brown (Employment Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 156609,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. Good morning everyone. On my left is Charlie Husband, who spends a great deal of his time working on new deal issues in Scotland. On my right is Eileen Thomson, who, as well as running the secretariat and the marketing in the office in Scotland, has been much involved in work on the new deal. It is also her birthday today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 156610,
      "EditedText": "Many happy returns to you, Eileen. You are welcome—what a way to spend your birthday. We have been wrestling with issues relating to the provision of vocational education services at a local level within Scotland. I have the impression that there is no lead body for the design of those services. If there is no lead body, I suspect that the most effective method of identifying the demand pressures in the marketplace in Scotland is not being used. Is that a fair assumption? If so, is it something that the Employment Service should be in and around?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 156618,
      "EditedText": "I gave my colleagues some advice about pagers. The easiest way to prevent them from going off is to leave them at home, which is what I have done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 156625,
      "EditedText": "There are a large number of new deal and other welfare-to-work programmes—I have a list of them covering several pages.I will focus on the programme for lone parents. As the committee probably knows, the programme for lone parents who are claiming income support has so far been voluntary. On the basis of information held by the Benefits Agency, we invite lone parents of children aged between five and 16 for an interview by one of our network of lone parent advisers. That has been very successful, and people have responded well. In Scotland, our approach to lone parents has been helped by a number of organisations. We can claim to have placed a number of lone parents either in work or in training that may help them. I sense that the new deal for lone parents has been a welcome addition to what was previously available, and that many people have been helped. The overwhelming majority of those are women, although some lone parents are men. Their average age is something like 28, despite the common perception that the new deal for lone parents is designed for much younger women.The programme for people over 25 has not been quite as extensive as the programme for 18 to 24-year-olds. However, in his pre-budget statement a few weeks ago, the chancellor announced that there had been various developments since the new deal for people over 25 began in June last year. Pilots for the scheme are now under way in your constituencies. In his statement, the chancellor announced that what was offered by the new deal for 25 plus would be enhanced. In Edinburgh East and Midlothian, a new deal for 50 plus is being run, again on a pilot basis. There are also new deals for people with disabilities, and in Renfrewshire and Inverclyde there is what we call ONE. ONE involves us, the Benefits Agency and local government calling in all people of working age and claiming benefits—not just the jobseekers allowance, but others—for interviews that might help them map a route out of benefits and into work. Again, that is being done on a voluntary basis for the time being.The Government regularly publishes information on all those schemes, but if the committee is interested in particular aspects of the figures for Scotland we would be happy to help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 156637,
      "EditedText": "My question is on the training element of new deal. You have referred to the hybrid nature of the scheme, which is currently in its development phase. What feedback have you obtained from new deal clients about the standard of training that they have received? How is that measured?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 156644,
      "EditedText": "We have plenty of information—plenty of numbers. I think that the question was referring to the kind of survey work that is undertaken by external organisations that are contracted to do interviews with young people and ask them what they feel about the programme. We can give you the numbers, but I sensed that Allan Wilson was asking about softer information—what people were feeling and how useful they had found the programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 156646,
      "EditedText": "Some people still do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 156649,
      "EditedText": "It would be par for the course—would everybody get that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 156654,
      "EditedText": "We know which people seek to collect information on the number of those whom we have referred to training for work and who subsequently end up in employment. The repository of all the information on all the outcomes of training is, as you would imagine, the local enterprise companies, Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise. Those people are the ones who run the programmes, who receive funding to deliver them and who have the most information about the outcomes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 156655,
      "EditedText": "I will now draw this session of evidence to a close. I thank Mr Brown and his colleagues for attending the meeting. We raised some issues that required further information, and we would appreciate receiving that information through the clerks in due course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Eileen Thomson (Employment Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 156658,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that you did not, thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ID": 3551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 570.0,
      "ContributionID": 156661,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments?If not, we should deal with the recommendations on page 1 of the work programme, because we must record these things formally. The first recommendation is:\"The committee agrees to appoint three Reporters to lead small groups of members to undertake a case study visit to a local area identified by the committee, and to report back to the committee.\"Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 156662,
      "EditedText": "Can I have suggestions for who those three reporters should be? Will I consult on that and take it a step forward?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ID": 3551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 156664,
      "EditedText": "We can do that at the next meeting. I will come back to the committee with a recommendation. Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ID": 3552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 585.0,
      "ContributionID": 156668,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 on the agenda is subjects for further inquiries. On the \"Subjects for Further Inquiries\" document, I have highlighted issues which either have come to us by letter or are on the horizon. A number of other points will have to be added to the document. There is an outstanding commitment to the petrol pricing inquiry, for which we are trying to secure a date. Simon Watkins is still working on that point. We also have a commitment to examine the semiconductor sector: we are looking for the best means of arranging those opportunities. I have noted four other items on the document. They struck me as matters that we will have to examine as a committee. The first is the tourism review. The Executive will be publishing its report on that, and the subject is within our remit, so we should probably have a look at it. One of the meetings in late January or early February would be an appropriate time to take evidence on the strategy and, possibly, to hear from the Scottish Tourist Board and from ministers on the strategy's composition. We have had a proposal from the Educational Institute of Scotland on national bargaining in further education; I have circulated that letter.A number of members have passed on to me correspondence in relation to a presentation on the work of Employee Ownership Scotland. A formal inquiry is not proposed, but we might arrange an informal briefing.The last item on my list is the multilateral agreement on investment. The Presiding Officer, Sir David Steel, is getting a great deal of correspondence on that subject, as, I am sure, are members. Sir David has asked me to draw the issue to the committee's attention so that we can decide whether we should do anything.We must also keep an eye on the output of the Cubie inquiry, in regard to the committee's role in relation to the formal report of that inquiry, which is expected before the turn of the year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C156669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 587.0,
      "ContributionID": 156669,
      "EditedText": "Originally we had a long list of several different issues that the committee was to look at. Obviously, it is impossible to examine all the issues, but one that seems to have disappeared is e-commerce and how Scotland's economy will face some of the challenges that that will bring over the next few years. I am disappointed that it is not on the list—I would like to see it dealt with sooner rather than later. It is an issue that will not wait."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ID": 3552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 591.0,
      "ContributionID": 156671,
      "EditedText": "I have had some correspondence with Henry McLeish about that, but I cannot quite remember what the date will be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ID": 3552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 595.0,
      "ContributionID": 156673,
      "EditedText": "As I mentioned at the start of the meeting, I have an interest in the subject. Big developments are taking place all over the country, and unless we have something on e-commerce soon, huge mistakes could be made in planning and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 597.0,
      "ContributionID": 156674,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree about e-commerce, and I do not think that members disagree about the committee's role in relation to tourism. Could we confirm inclusion of tourism in our agenda for 26 January?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ID": 3552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 618.0,
      "ContributionID": 156684,
      "EditedText": "We keep bumping into that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.510862+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C156619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 24 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 825
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-24T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 3550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 156619,
      "EditedText": "I was not guilty on that occasion, convener.We all recognise that for a long-term unemployed person to obtain a secure job is a terrific success and that the new deal should not be judged merely on the number of young people who go into full-time employment thereafter. However, on reading a parliamentary written answer on the number of young people who went into full-time employment after having undergone the new deal, I was struck by how low the figure was. Do you feel that the figure is low? If not—if you feel that the scheme is a success—how robust is the evidence to support that conclusion? What evidence is there? If you do not have it today, could you produce it for us later? How many of those who managed to secure jobs through the new deal would have gained those jobs anyway?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:02.9509109+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 23 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 638559,
      "EditedText": "We have apologies from Ian Jenkins and Ian Welsh, who are attending another committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 638573,
      "EditedText": "We will now deal with the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. The first aspect that concerns us relates to section 2(7) and section 9. There are concerns about whether rules are to be specified by a sheriff or in legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 638577,
      "EditedText": "We could ask the Executive to clarify that, along with the previous points.Our advice on section 8(2) was that we should note that. On section 11, it was suggested that we note that there is provision for the operation of the bill including the delegated powers under it to be governed by codes of practice, and that we agree that those powers are appropriate. Similarly, it was suggested that we note section 13(3)(c) and section 14(3)(c) as before.That brings us to section 25(1), paragraphs (c) and (f), section 35, subsections (2) and (9), section 44(3) and section 51(3)(a), which we note as before. Points have been raised about a possible oversight in regard to section 34(3) and section 38(1)(e). Does anyone want to comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 638579,
      "EditedText": "I would concur with that. On section 37(3), section 39(1)(d) and section 39(3), we are looking for an explanation as to why it was thought necessary to prescribe the sums in regulations if they can be varied by supervisory bodies.We have no real comments on sections 45 and 48.We might want further details on section 58 and how matters will work in practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 638581,
      "EditedText": "Section 78 deals with matters that have caused problems in other bills.We move on to schedule 1(2) and schedule 6, paragraphs 2, 4 and 7. Are there any comments on them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 638583,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what Trish has said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ID": 19342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 638587,
      "EditedText": "I might share Fergus's concern if the negative procedure were being proposed. I am reassured by section 25(2A), which requires that any order under section 24 will be subject to the affirmative procedure. Therefore, any use of the act by ministers would be subject to scrutiny by Parliament. I do not share Fergus's concern on the point that he raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No. 4) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/143)",
      "HeadingID": 19343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 19343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 638597,
      "EditedText": "No, I was congratulating the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 19346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 19346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 638605,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 638565,
      "EditedText": "You would think that the Lord President had his hands full enough at the moment with other matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ID": 19342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 638586,
      "EditedText": "Section 24 contains a classic Henry VIII power to amend primary legislation by way of subordinate legislation. That is done under the section heading, \"Modification of enactments\". While I understand that the Executive feels that it might not have identified all possible or necessary amendments or repeals, it seems that the power described under subsection (2) is of a rather sweeping nature. I wonder whether the Executive plans to include such a subsection in every bill that comes before Parliament. It seems to set a bad precedent. I await with interest the explanation of the subsection."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No. 4) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/143)",
      "HeadingID": 19343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 19343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 638596,
      "EditedText": "Is that you congratulating the Executive, David?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Council Tax (Exempt Dwellings) (Scotland) Amendment (No. 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/140)",
      "HeadingID": 19344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 19344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 638601,
      "EditedText": "I support Trish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638560,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is delegated powers scrutiny. Various bills are before us. The first is the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill, which is at stage 1.We have had the benefit of advice and briefing on the aspects that are covered. There is a general point at the start on various matters relating to fees. Does anyone have any comments on that, before we move on to section 5, which affects us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 638566,
      "EditedText": "On section 19, the advice that we have had is that it is appropriate. We thank the Executive for its helpful comments.Fergus wants to raise some points on section 20."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 638568,
      "EditedText": "The drafting of the section is obscure. A more straightforward form of words could be achieved, subject to the answer to Fergus's point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 638574,
      "EditedText": "We need some more information about that. I am not sure whether it is better that rules are specified by a sheriff or in primary legislation. I would want to know why the Executive had chosen a particular route. There is a contrast between section 2(7) and section 9—the latter deals with guardianship and seems to be tighter. I would like an explanation of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 638575,
      "EditedText": "I share your concerns. As I mentioned earlier, the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 and the Adoption (Scotland) Act 1978 tend to be dealt with by rules of court. That is probably the correct approach, but we need clarification on the logic of that.Section 5 of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill relates to the public guardian. Does Trish want to add to her earlier comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 638576,
      "EditedText": "My only point would be to draw attention to the inconsistencies in the use of the word \"prescribe\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 638580,
      "EditedText": "That is not absolutely clear. We need more information on how it will work in practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 638582,
      "EditedText": "The appointing of a safeguarder can be left to the rules of court. The Executive must be asked why it considers that the functions of the safeguarder should be prescribed by rules of court, rather than set out in the bill or regulations made by Scottish ministers. I am not clear about the thinking on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 638584,
      "EditedText": "I share those concerns. It appears to me that something as specific as the functions is best dealt with clearly and should be properly defined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ID": 19342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 638585,
      "EditedText": "That takes us on to the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill, as amended at stage 2. I think that Fergus flagged up some cause for concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ID": 19342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 638588,
      "EditedText": "The matter will be for the lead committee: perhaps we should ask it to clarify why it is being dealt with in this way, and whether the affirmative procedure is an adequate safeguard. Would that satisfy you, Fergus?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ID": 19342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 638590,
      "EditedText": "Okay. Is that fine by you, Bristow?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ID": 19342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 638591,
      "EditedText": "That is fine by me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No. 4) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/143)",
      "HeadingID": 19343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 19343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 638592,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to instruments under the affirmative procedure, of which there is only one: the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No. 4) (Scotland) Order 1999. Everything appears to be in order, and there appears to be nothing to comment on. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No. 4) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/143)",
      "HeadingID": 19343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 19343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 638593,
      "EditedText": "I think that the map should be noted as a positive development. Is it to be made available to the other committees—although it is not to made available with the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No. 4) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/143)",
      "HeadingID": 19343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 19343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Rankin (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 638594,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 19346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 19346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 638604,
      "EditedText": "The final item on the agenda is the letter from the Minister for Parliament. We are awaiting further responses on a number of matters, and I think that we should simply agree to hold the item until our next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 638563,
      "EditedText": "On section 5, while the delegation of powers in relation to forms is not inappropriate, there seems to be a lack of an explanation as to why it has been decided to include some forms in the bill, but to leave this particular form to subordinate legislation. It is the form for recording deeds in the Register of Sasines. An explanation from the Executive on that aspect might assist the committee"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 638571,
      "EditedText": "I agree. It seems odd to me that included in these bills should be sections that say that, if the Executive does not pick up on all the previous legislation that needs to be amended or repealed, it can do so later on. That practice—I believe that it is called a Henry VIII clause—should be discouraged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No. 4) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/143)",
      "HeadingID": 19343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 19343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 638598,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 23 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638558,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the public meeting at 11:17"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 19340,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638561,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638562,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any points on section 5?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 638564,
      "EditedText": "Certainly. That is also the case on the requirement for prior consultation with the Lord President of the Court of Session. There might be a good reason for that, but it would be worth knowing the reasoning behind it, given the difficulties between conveyancing practitioners and the interpretation put on various matters by High Court judges."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 638569,
      "EditedText": "As regards section 25, our advice is that the use of the delegated power and the procedure are appropriate. Similar advice applies to sections 43, 69 and 74."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 638570,
      "EditedText": "There is a concern in relation to section 74. The drafting of subsection (3) allows too wide an ability for the Executive to make amendments and, while there might be a reason for that, perhaps it sets a dangerous precedent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 638572,
      "EditedText": "I do not have any objection to such a clause, but I think that we should consider whether the affirmative procedure should be used to carry out any consequential change, as opposed to the negative procedure. That would satisfy me. We could raise that with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19341,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 19341,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 638578,
      "EditedText": "It is suggested that a power be included to allow amendments to be made to section 38 to reflect changes made by regulation under section 34. The Executive must consider that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No. 4) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/143)",
      "HeadingID": 19343,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 19343,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 638595,
      "EditedText": "That is positive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Council Tax (Exempt Dwellings) (Scotland) Amendment (No. 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/140)",
      "HeadingID": 19344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 19344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 638599,
      "EditedText": "We now come to an instrument under the negative procedure: the Council Tax (Exempt Dwellings) (Scotland) Amendment (No. 2) Order 1999. It has been drawn to our attention that the order was not laid until 10 days after it was made. We should seek an explanation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Council Tax (Exempt Dwellings) (Scotland) Amendment (No. 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/140)",
      "HeadingID": 19344,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 19344,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 638600,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) Partial Revocation (No. 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/141)",
      "HeadingID": 19345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ID": 19345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 638602,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to an instrument that is not subject to parliamentary procedure: the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) Partial Revocation (No. 2) (Scotland) Order 1999. There appears to have been a delay of one week with the order, but there is nothing else apart from that. Is the delay a matter that we want to raise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) Partial Revocation (No. 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/141)",
      "HeadingID": 19345,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ID": 19345,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 638603,
      "EditedText": "What is the difference between 10 days and seven days? If we are highlighting one delay, in regard to the council tax order, perhaps we should highlight this one. It might be worth adding it to your letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 19346,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 19346,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 638606,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:33."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19340,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19340,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 638567,
      "EditedText": "Section 20 deals with section 2(1) and (4) of the Conveyancing and Feudal Reform (Scotland) Act 1970, which set out the considerations that govern applications to the Lands Tribunal for Scotland for variation or discharge of land obligations and raise important issues that go to the heart of the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill. They determine the circumstances in which individuals can go to a court of law and have unfair title conditions struck out. They have been a source of contention over the years. It is of some surprise to me that the bill has been drafted to give the Executive the power to add, by way of statutory instrument, modifications to those rules that would be deemed appropriate by ministers. That seems to be an excessive use of power, and I would be pleased to receive an explanation from the Executive as to why it believes that statutory instrument powers should be used for such important matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3619
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19342,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ID": 19342,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 638589,
      "EditedText": "That seems to be a sensible suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 23 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13481,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13481,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 496475,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:01"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13482,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13482,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Murray Tosh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 496476,
      "EditedText": "Although Janis Hughes is not here today, let us make a start, as some members must disappear early today. The bulk of today's papers relate to item 1 on the agenda: the changes to the draft standing orders. We have discussed the changes twice already, so I do not propose to go through them again. The purpose of having the agenda item is simply to keep members up to date. The sections that were changed after our previous meeting have been tabbed and the changes noted on the relevant pages. The first change was to rule 9.12.6. We decided that we would extend the deadline for financial resolutions from three months to 12 months after the introduction of a bill. We will discuss that change again later. The next change was the insertion of rule 12.2A—the enabling clause—known for ever after as the Iain Smith clause. The third change is to rule 17.2, on the suspension of standing orders. We decided to reinsert the original section. The papers are provided simply to allow members to keep a running score of the changes that have been made as we go through the exercise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13482,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13482,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 496478,
      "EditedText": "Well spotted. Your grasp of English is even better than your grasp of Scots."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13482,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13482,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 496480,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Janis Hughes. We have not got far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13482,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13482,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 496481,
      "EditedText": "I apologise, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 496487,
      "EditedText": "The papers provided for the agenda item on the remit of the Subordinate Legislation Committee include an explanatory note from the clerk to the Subordinate Legislation Committee, the draft amendment—which is now subject to an additional proposal, as outlined in Iain Smith's letter—and a copy of a letter from Tom McCabe to Kenny MacAskill, convener of the Subordinate Legislation Committee, for our information, which I should have received in time for our previous meeting, but did not.It would be appropriate at this point for Alasdair Rankin to talk to us about the point that we were unable to pick up at the previous meeting. He will explain to us briefly what it is that the Subordinate Legislation Committee cannot do now, but will be able to do if the amendment is accepted. Specifically, he should address the change that Iain Smith has suggested to the revised remit, so that we are all clear about it, although I think that we are all in agreement with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Rankin (Clerk to the Subordinate Legislation Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 496488,
      "EditedText": "The Subordinate Legislation Committee wants to be able to consider what are called general instruments not laid, which are a class of statutory instrument that usually would not be laid before Parliament, but which the equivalent committee at Westminster—the Joint Committee on Subordinate Legislation—gets to see. There is nothing particularly controversial about that, but members might want me to explain what the provisions are. Does the committee have any questions about the note that I passed to the committee, which members might have received?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Rankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 496491,
      "EditedText": "The intention is not to affect the position of the Subordinate Legislation Committee in relation to Westminster statutory instruments. The change reflects only the committee's desire to consider Scottish statutory instruments not laid. The first category of SSIs is those that are laid before Parliament, and which are subject to affirmative and negative procedure. However, there is another category of instrument that usually is not laid before Parliament under standing orders. Under the proposed amendment, the committee could consider such instruments, although they would remain unlaid and would not be subject to further parliamentary procedure. The committee would consider only the technical competence of such instruments, not the policy aspects. From the Parliament's point of view, the matter is much more to do with scrutiny than with assuring technical competence, but it has no impact on the policy content of the instruments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 496492,
      "EditedText": "Gil Paterson is right that if the change is not added, such instruments cannot be checked by the committee for technical competence. Therefore, the amendment covers something that otherwise would not be covered by the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13483,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Rankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 496493,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Rankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 496496,
      "EditedText": "The difference is in the use of the term \"Scottish statutory instrument\", which is more specific than \"subordinate legislation\", which is the most general term used to describe such legislation. I understand that there was concern at the previous meeting of the Procedures Committee that the use of the term \"subordinate legislation\" could leave open the possibility of the committee considering Westminster instruments, which is not the intention at all. The Executive amendment clarifies that point and to that extent, my understanding is that the Subordinate Legislation Committee welcomes the change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 496497,
      "EditedText": "Does the Executive's use of the wording \"Scottish statutory instruments not laid\" mean that the various legal and other matters that were mentioned in your paper cannot be discussed? Does it unduly restrict the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Rankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 496498,
      "EditedText": "No, it does not. It can also be taken to cover general instruments not laid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 496504,
      "EditedText": "Again, this is a straightforward matter of clarification, to ensure that the committee deals with what it was intended that it should deal with. I understand that the convener of the committee has accepted the Executive's proposal, but I am sure that the clerk will be able to advise members on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Callum Thomson (Senior Assistant Clerk to the Finance Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 496505,
      "EditedText": "Unfortunately, we have been unable to get hold of the convener of the Finance Committee for the past couple of days. However, we have taken soundings from the Executive and we are happy with the Executive's proposed amendment to the remit. We intend to get the committee's approval to the revised amendment at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 496509,
      "EditedText": "That is the theory, although getting such a motion past the Parliamentary Bureau might be another matter.I thank Callum Thomson.We move now to the issue of suspension of standing orders and the three-month, six-month and 12-month time limits. Iain, feel free to speak to the proposal in your letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 496518,
      "EditedText": "Much of the problem seems to stem from trying to introduce business at the beginning of a term after a recess. Perhaps the three-month period should exclude recesses, or we could change the rule for business that is considered immediately after a recess.It is false to base any procedure on an assumption that we can easily turn it upside down whenever we want. What is the difficulty with changing standing orders meeting by meeting? We can raise the matter at one meeting and if people are persuaded, it can be put on the agenda; however, members have the right to raise concerns. That is important. I am an anti-steamroller person and, as the proposals potentially favour the steamroller, I am against them. There are better solutions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 496519,
      "EditedText": "Iain, are some steps between meetings possible only if standing orders are suspended?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 496521,
      "EditedText": "Can you give us an example?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 496523,
      "EditedText": "We were not actually sure whether the 90-minute rule applied to committees. The standing orders make it explicit that the Parliament has 90 minutes to deal with an instrument. That is one of the areas where we are not sure whether what applies to Parliament also applies to committees. Nevertheless, I see what you are getting at."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 496527,
      "EditedText": "That sounds attractive enough, but we would need to see a draft version."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 496528,
      "EditedText": "Before I go, I want to congratulate members of the team whose file has proved to be the ideal format for putting out papers. Although there was probably a lot of work with sticky tape, the file is excellent and I hope that the practice continues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 496533,
      "EditedText": "An important part of the Parliament's work is its relationship with the Executive—we are here to keep it under control, although we are failing to do so at the moment. That could be construed as being covered in paragraph 1(b), which refers to \"the relationship of the Parliament with any other parliamentary, governmental, administrative or other body, whether within or outside the United Kingdom\".However, it is such an important part of our work that it might have to be specifically itemised.I am raising that because of my concern as a member of the professional awkward squad."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 496534,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry—you lost me there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 496536,
      "EditedText": "Is not that covered in paragraph 1(a), which refers to considering\"the practice and procedures of the Parliament\"?That would encompass the interface between the Executive and the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 496537,
      "EditedText": "As long as it is construed in that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 496543,
      "EditedText": "That is spinning in its traditional sense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 496546,
      "EditedText": "With the form of words that we would produce and circulate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 496549,
      "EditedText": "Iain Smith has registered some concern about the remit, and it should be understood that, for that reason, Iain attends the committee meetings. I have no problem with including the remit on the priority list and I have no problem with leaving it out and dealing with it later. If the draft that is arrived at in the next couple of days seems laudable, we will put it in. If there are any difficulties, rather than scramble to get a further meeting, we should let the matter go and pick it up later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Chamber Access",
      "HeadingID": 13486,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ID": 13486,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 496553,
      "EditedText": "I have just been handed a draft of the revised version of rule 17.2 of the standing orders. I will circulate copies for members to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13482,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13482,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 496479,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 496485,
      "EditedText": "The second item on the agenda was to be discussion of the letter that I received from Iain Smith, which covers three issues. However, as item 3 on the agenda deals with the remit of the Subordinate Legislation Committee as well, I propose to ask Iain Smith to speak briefly to the first paragraph of his letter and then to allow the clerk to the Subordinate Legislation Committee, Alasdair Rankin, who is here to discuss its remit, to speak so that we can allow him to leave. We will then deal with the other two issues covered in the letter, which might take a bit longer.Iain, will you please explain why you have amended the change that the Subordinate Legislation Committee suggested to its remit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 496486,
      "EditedText": "We want to clarify the issues that the Subordinate Legislation Committee can consider. The change that we suggested to rule 6.11.1(a)(ii) is to use the technical term \"Scottish statutory instruments not laid\", which makes it clearer which subordinate legislation is being referred to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 496490,
      "EditedText": "Is my interpretation right that, if we do not agree to the change, the effect will be either that some items will fall into a black hole, or that the Executive will make a decision rather than the Parliament? Legislation enacted at Westminster could in effect have no purpose within the Parliament, except that the Executive would make its mind up on it for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 496499,
      "EditedText": "So the Subordinate Legislation Committee would not be against the revised wording suggested by the Executive in Iain Smith's letter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 496507,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Our original proposal raised the possibility of the Finance Committee being able to consider public finance that is outwith the remit of the Scottish Parliament, which would allow it to consider the range of Westminster activities. That would not be appropriate. We agree therefore to the change to the Finance Committee's remit as worded in the letter from Iain Smith. If the convener of the Finance Committee is not happy with that, it will be up to the senior assistant clerk to mollify him and explain what went wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 496510,
      "EditedText": "Members will have had a chance to read the suggestions that the Executive has made. The issue is whether it should be possible to suspend standing orders only for a particular meeting or on an item of business. The Executive has requested that the standing orders be changed to allow a suspension on an item of business so that there is additional flexibility. Last week, the matter was referred to specifically in relation to financial resolutions. I tried to suggest then that the issue applied to a wider range of matters. I have included one or two examples in my letter, such as lodging amendments during a recess. The Finance Committee has already had to defer for a week consideration of the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill to allow amendments to be lodged in accordance with the rules about sitting days. If it had been possible, we could have suspended the standing orders to allow amendments to be lodged—still with adequate notice—on days when the office of the clerk was open rather than on sitting days. Such a change would allow the Parliamentary Bureau additional flexibility in timetabling business where necessary. I would be grateful if the Procedures Committee could accept that that is a sensible way forward. The Executive is not trying to take control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 496511,
      "EditedText": "I understand your position. The bureau should have the power to move a motion to suspend standing orders for an item of business that might spread over several parliamentary meetings, committee meetings and days when the office of the clerk is closed. I am intrigued by the final paragraph of your letter, which suggests the possibility of adjusting the wording of rule 17.2 by inserting:\"including retaining the right for members to table motions\"in relation to suspending standing orders. I assume that that means that such a right had disappeared. Are there any other circumstances in which standing orders might be suspended, including suspensions without notice at the discretion of the Presiding Officer? In such an event, would members still have the right to move a suspension of standing orders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 496515,
      "EditedText": "Iain, how do you feel about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 496520,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 496522,
      "EditedText": "Under the standing orders, amendments have to be lodged on sitting days. Committees that want to meet immediately after recess to deal with legislation cannot do so unless amendments are lodged before the recess, which might be a month or two before the meeting.Furthermore, standing orders do not allow committees to suspend their standing orders, which means that if an item of business goes on for more than one committee meeting, the committee has to go back to the Parliament every week to have the standing orders suspended for the next meeting. It seems much more sensible to do that through an item of business rather than through a meeting-by-meeting suspension.It might also take more than 40 days to consider statutory instruments—which, as Donald hinted, is probably a recess issue—or a committee might want to discuss an instrument for more than the allotted 90 minutes. Committees are not allowed to suspend their own standing orders to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 496524,
      "EditedText": "This is not a star chamber matter. An over-reliance on the suspension of standing orders is, in principle, a bad thing. We need a draft revision that sets out three principles. First, it is properly a bureau matter to move a motion to suspend standing orders in relation to an item of business, as the bureau has set the timetable for business.Secondly, the right of an individual member to move a suspension of standing orders—which is universal and common in standing orders—should be retained. I know that that right is universal because, as part of my bedtime reading, I have been perusing the standing orders— which John Patterson has provided for me—in a variety of odd places.Thirdly, we must have some flexibility in the three-month rule. I appreciate that we must remain focused, but this is our job, and a change from three months to 12 will not make us say, \"Whoopee—we can go away for a few months and not be focused on anything.\" The three-month rule is unduly restrictive. Unrealistic pressure is being put on some committees, with a heavy legislative work load. A draft version might work that combines the bureau's role, the member's role and a slight loosening of the three-month corset and which perhaps bears in mind Donald's suggestion that the three months should exclude recesses. If that is a priority issue, obviously we must proceed quickly so that we keep our focus on completing the process on the standing orders before Christmas. If we can do that, perhaps the Executive's response to the final report will have a light touch. We should also re-examine the matter when we review the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 496525,
      "EditedText": "That sounds acceptable. The point about being flexible on the three-month issue follows if we accept that the bureau can move a motion to suspend the standing orders for an item of business. We will make progress if we agree to find a form of words that will give the bureau the power that it seeks and also protects the rights of members. The Executive will have to accept that that solution is very partial and that the whole matter should be re-examined. Yesterday evening, we spent an hour and a half going round the circuit on the matter and all sorts of other issues arose. Donald Gorrie has made an attractive and helpful suggestion that the three-month period should not include recesses, although it seems sweeping to apply that rule now to everything. All sorts of ramifications need to be taken into account and if we accept that this will be only an interim solution, we might have the basis of a compromise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 496532,
      "EditedText": "Members have copies of our proposed remit. Attached is a report that we agreed to discuss at fuller length with the chief executive of the Parliament when he comes to our meeting in December. Today, we should confirm whether we are happy with the broad thrust of the report. There is an incomplete version on the last page of the report, but that is subject to reassessment and reconsideration by our legal advisers. The idea is that we get a final draft remit for the committee, which accords with the report. If we are happy with that, we can agree to include an amended version in our final report. The difficulty is that we will need to see that version subsequent to today's meeting, but before it goes into the final report; we will have to call a meeting if there is disagreement.There is an issue of time scale. The same will hold for the previous discussion about the suspension of standing orders. If we have agreement, we can proceed; if not, we will have to hold a further meeting. We are not taking any more priority issues from anyone, under any circumstances. We have to get this piece of work done.Does the committee have any comments or questions about the report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 496538,
      "EditedText": "That would be my immediate reaction. Are there any other comments on the report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 496540,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the proposed remit would lead to the Procedures Committee examining standards in the UK Parliament; it is about picking up matters that are not covered by anyone else. Although there are many specific things that the Procedures Committee would cover, it is not about dealing with those matters, but about working out a way in which someone can deal with them. It is fair to say that the remit needs to be tightened; it is explicitly an incomplete draft, which is under consideration.The other question is whether we decide not to prioritise the matter, but to consider it in the fulness of time. I am quite relaxed about that. I am more concerned with getting a report to the Parliament.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 496542,
      "EditedText": "I do not see any point in prioritising the matter for the end of the year. We have a heavy work load and other issues that need to be addressed more urgently. There is no problem with spinning it out until the beginning of next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 496545,
      "EditedText": "An agreement with whom?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 496547,
      "EditedText": "Who would be agreeing with the form of words?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Chamber Access",
      "HeadingID": 13486,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ID": 13486,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 496552,
      "EditedText": "The final item is a minute from the security office that was previously brought before the committee. The committee should note the response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13482,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13482,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 496477,
      "EditedText": "There is a small matter that needs to be tidied up regarding oldest members. Rule 12.4 says that the first meeting of a committee\"shall be chaired until a convener is chosen by the Oldest Committee Member.\"Should not that be reversed to say that the meeting will be chaired by the oldest committee member until a convener is chosen? Otherwise it seems as if the oldest committee member picks the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13482,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13482,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Parliament (Iain Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 496482,
      "EditedText": "The Executive secretariat might have some minor points to raise with the clerk on the drafting of the standing orders before they are finalised. I am sure that they will be acceptable, as they are not on any issue of substance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13482,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13482,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 496483,
      "EditedText": "We received the changes on Friday and we are talking to the lawyers. The matter is on-going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13482,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13482,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 496484,
      "EditedText": "In accordance with our previous decision, we will allow that to go ahead unless anything significant is raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13483,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 496489,
      "EditedText": "Everyone should have received that note from the Subordinate Legislation Committee. Are there any questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 496494,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 496495,
      "EditedText": "What is the difference, if any, between the Subordinate Legislation Committee's proposal and the Executive's proposal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13483,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Rankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 496500,
      "EditedText": "No. I spoke to the convener of the Subordinate Legislation Committee yesterday. He is content with the Executive's change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 496501,
      "EditedText": "If the convener, the committee, the clerk and the Executive are content, it is only us who need to be content to produce a virtuous circle of delight, so we should all be content with the change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13483,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13483,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 496502,
      "EditedText": "I believe that that is the position that we have reached. The difficulty last week was that we did not grasp what was involved. Now that the matter has been clarified, it seems perfectly acceptable to me. I also, therefore, am content. We therefore agree to the addition to standing orders of the change suggested by Mr Smith, which meets with the satisfaction of the Subordinate Legislation Committee.If Alasdair wants to scoot off now, he is welcome to do so. We shall now discuss the other issues in Iain Smith's letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 496503,
      "EditedText": "The next point in Iain's letter is the remit of the Finance Committee. The senior assistant clerk to the Finance Committee is here. He might bring us hot news on whether the Finance Committee accepts the Executive's suggestion on its remit. Perhaps Iain can explain the difference between the original change that was proposed to the remit and the proposal as redrafted by the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 496506,
      "EditedText": "The Executive amendment is more than satisfactory. The amendment that we had agreed to rule 6.6(d), which relates to the moneys for which the Parliament has responsibility, is undoubtedly too wide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 496508,
      "EditedText": "Presumably, if the Parliament thinks that Westminster is making a hash of things, it will still be able to debate the issue, as it can debate anything. It is only that it will not be within the remit of the Finance Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 496512,
      "EditedText": "When it suggested the amendment, the Executive did not intend to reduce the existing rights of members to suspend standing orders. The amendment is meant to introduce additional flexibility, but with the safeguard that the Parliamentary Bureau can suspend standing orders only for items of business. We would be happy with an amendment that kept the existing rights of members to suspend standing orders, but which introduced additional flexibility for items of business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 496513,
      "EditedText": "I understand that and am quite happy with your suggestion in principle. The only difficulty is the time scale for drafting, which has become pressing. We had hoped to have a draft revised rule 17.2 this morning, but that has not arrived yet; even if we receive the draft revision this morning, it is asking a bit much of Iain and the committee to agree that draft today without a further meeting, which would complicate our timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 496514,
      "EditedText": "The real problem is the time scale. Although I am not opposed root and branch to Iain's suggestion, it requires a bit more teasing out. The Executive has drawn an attractive distinction on the issue. The bureau's role is to suspend standing orders in relation to items of business; members should have the right to move a suspension of standing orders at any meeting.However, the real difficulty is that we are trying to decide quickly on an issue that is not only complex but is a foundation stone of the standing orders. At the previous meeting, Donald Gorrie made an extremely important point that the use of a get-out clause in standing orders to get us out of difficulties that standing orders have created is bad procedure. Standing orders should be good enough to carry us through, and we should not need to pull a parachute rip-cord when things get difficult. In such circumstances, we should stick with our decision to allow a 12-month period for financial resolutions and to examine the mechanism for suspending standing orders in our review, which will take us up to next May.I have discussed the matter with Iain Smith and Tom McCabe and, although I understand the Executive's keenness to tidy things up now, to do so in this way might lock us into areas that we do not fully understand. We are trying to draft quickly a new part of the standing orders that might have far-reaching implications. As a result, on balance—a fine balance, as I am sympathetic to the Executive's arguments—I think that we should stick with the decision made at the previous meeting, but put the suspension of standing orders at the top of the priority issues list for our May review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 496516,
      "EditedText": "Mike Russell's proposals have a degree of illogicality. We are most likely to need a suspension of standing orders when we are still trying and testing them—some aspects of the standing orders have not yet been tested. I hope that we will have ironed out all the problems after the first full review. In a sense, this is almost a temporary measure to allow us to get through business without undue problems until we are confident that the standing orders are robust, which will be after the review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 496517,
      "EditedText": "I concur with Iain. A three-month period for consideration of financial resolutions allows us to focus our minds on the matter. Extending that period to 12 months might allow us to let consideration of bills to drift. We need an incentive to get on with business. Perhaps we should leave the three-month period but allow some increased flexibility that gives us a month if we need the time.Iain is right. We are doing ourselves an injustice to leave the standing orders as they are at a time when we most need some flexibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 496531,
      "EditedText": "We have disposed of item 2 satisfactorily and have already dealt with item 3. That takes us to item 4."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 496526,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the new draft should not only mirror the wording of the existing rule on the suspension of standing orders, but say that the Parliament may, on a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau, suspend any rules for a specific item of business of the Parliament or committees. The end of the draft could make it clear that such a suspension would apply only for that specific item of business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 496529,
      "EditedText": "They learned that in primary school and it has stood them in good stead."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13484,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 13484,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 496530,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that I saw a squeezy bottle in there somewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 496535,
      "EditedText": "We could create a new subparagraph on the relationship with the Executive. Whether Sir David Steel talks to the Speaker of the Parliament of Madagascar is of no relevance to anyone other than him, but the relationship between the Parliament and the Executive is important. We could interpret paragraph 1(b) as covering that relationship or, as I would prefer, create a new subparagraph on monitoring the way in which we deal with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8313212+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 496539,
      "EditedText": "I have some concerns about the proposed remit—it seems to be very open-ended. It might stray into areas that are of concern to other committees. For example, the Standards Committee would have an interest in liaison and discussion with other Parliaments on standards issues. I wonder whether we need to tighten the remit to clarify the areas for which the Procedures Committee is responsible and how it would be asked to consider some of the wider issues that are mentioned in paragraph 4 of the report. Otherwise, the Procedures Committee might spend its entire life considering issues that are of no interest to anyone other than the Procedures Committee. I am not suggesting that that would happen, but it is a concern. At present, the remit is wide.In that context, I wonder whether the remit is a priority issue. Perhaps we should consider the issues in relation to liaising with other Parliaments and the various interests of other bodies—the bureau, the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, the committees and the Parliament—before we present a detailed change to the remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 496541,
      "EditedText": "Once that report has been completed and standing orders have been adopted, it will be possible for the Procedures Committee to deal with other issues. The remit is on the priority list, because the chief executive has prodded us. He is concerned that several important matters are being addressed in the name of the Parliament, by him or by the Presiding Officer, when they have no real way of gauging opinion. He also anticipates issues arising from the reform of the House of Lords—the Parliament might want some input, particularly on how that might affect our legislation. At the moment, there is no forum, mechanism or procedure for doing that. Therefore, the matter is reasonably urgent. However, I doubt whether this needs to be done before the end of the year. I see no difficulty if members would prefer to spin it out a little longer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 496544,
      "EditedText": "There are only two issues: flexibility and scope. We are almost there. We are wrestling with maintaining the focus, while allowing a perspective that is wide enough to do the job that is needed. Would the committee have any objection to the clerks pursuing the matter? If the committee came to an agreement about the form of words, it could be popped into the priority issues list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 496548,
      "EditedText": "The committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 496550,
      "EditedText": "The point that Iain Smith made about the Standards Committee wanting to do things with other Parliaments is fine. However, it is our duty to organise the mechanism whereby other committees carry out their business. If the Rural Affairs Committee wants to examine how reindeer graze in northern Scandinavia, the mechanism of how it does that should be decided by us. We do not want to talk about reindeer, but we should discuss the procedure for talking about reindeer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13485,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ID": 13485,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 496551,
      "EditedText": "Indeed. Is there agreement on that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Chamber Access",
      "HeadingID": 13486,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ID": 13486,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 496554,
      "EditedText": "That concludes today's meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Chamber Access",
      "HeadingID": 13486,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ID": 13486,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 496555,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 09:39."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8469501+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 581.0,
      "ContributionID": 419901,
      "EditedText": "Which are?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 593.0,
      "ContributionID": 419907,
      "EditedText": "You seem to be saying that it is the fault of the statisticians. All you do is rely on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 597.0,
      "ContributionID": 419909,
      "EditedText": "That means that there is not a lot of slack. If there is an increase in numbers, refurbishment or trouble, you will not have room to manoeuvre."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 609.0,
      "ContributionID": 419915,
      "EditedText": "In the light of that conclusion, how did you decide that that prison should be closed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 613.0,
      "ContributionID": 419917,
      "EditedText": "I did not ask that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 625.0,
      "ContributionID": 419923,
      "EditedText": "I will look at it when I get the chance.I move on to Penninghame. Page 39 of the report says:\"With regard to some of the current physical conditions at Penninghame, it was evident from a brief look round the kitchen that much of its ancillary equipment would soon be time expired. We therefore welcome plans which are being drawn up for a completely new development adjacent to the present site. It was noted that the ad hoc gymnasium arrangements were being well used though they bore no comparison to the excellent facilities just inspected at Noranside. Generally, however, the much more relaxed approach to recreation, visits, etc., was an example which the latter might wish to consider following.Lack of time precluded an in depth assessment of staff morale, but those individuals spoken to appeared confident and happy.\"The report also states:\"A number of prisoners were spoken to at random and were all extremely positive about their time at Penninghame.\"The paper on Penninghame, which the witnesses will have seen, mentions simple things such as value for money. Apart from the plaudits that the prison appears to have received, not just from the prisoners and the prison staff but from the community, it shows that the cost of a prisoner at Penninghame is £17,137. Compared with the average SPS annual cost of £28,761, that seems to be money well spent in a successful open prison. Are the criteria for closing the prison also included in the papers that I have just received?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 633.0,
      "ContributionID": 419927,
      "EditedText": "I will have to look at that report, but that is not the point. From the prisoners' point of view, Penninghame is a successful open prison. I hate the word rationalisation, but your use of it indicates that you will cut something. I lived in Newton Stewart for years, so I know from experience how the community accepts the prison and the prisoners. I am therefore unhappy to see that recommendation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 852.0,
      "ContributionID": 420035,
      "EditedText": "Did you know that £24 million had been accumulated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 864.0,
      "ContributionID": 420041,
      "EditedText": "So there are to be prison cuts because £30 million is going. My second question is about overcrowding. On Tuesday 14 September, you gave evidence to this committee, saying: \"It was . . . recognised that we needed a national contingency in cased there was a riot; that fitted in quite well with the strategy at the time.\"You are speaking about the fact that it is not simply a numbers game; there must be overcapacity in the prisons, for a variety of reasons. Therefore, are you concerned that we seem to be working on numbers to fit pigeonholes and that there will not be capacity, should it be required, to cope with, for example, a riot—that there will be no decanting facilities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 876.0,
      "ContributionID": 420047,
      "EditedText": "The closure of Dungavel has been dealt with.If and when these cuts are implemented, I am concerned that we will be left with a demoralised Prison Service, as prison officers will be moved to places where they do not want to be. What impact do you think the way cuts are being implemented and the forced transfer of employees will have on morale in the Prison Service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 880.0,
      "ContributionID": 420049,
      "EditedText": "My last ancillary point is that Clive Fairweather raised the importance of training. I am concerned that people are moving from one kind of prison operation to another without training. What are your concerns about that? How will that impact on the Prison Service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 419863,
      "EditedText": "I think I understand the now you see it, now you don't £13 million. It would have been used to fund the prisons that are closing, to pay salaries and fund the end of slopping out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 419877,
      "EditedText": "This plan is dated August 1999."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ContributionID": 419885,
      "EditedText": "Prison officers—people who are going to lose their jobs, and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 552.0,
      "ContributionID": 419887,
      "EditedText": "But you remain committed to good relations with staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 560.0,
      "ContributionID": 419891,
      "EditedText": "That means that your projections about the capacity that you require could be completely wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 564.0,
      "ContributionID": 419893,
      "EditedText": "They have changed within the space of a few months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 419628,
      "EditedText": "When did you become a trustee of the Carbeth Hutters Association?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 419630,
      "EditedText": "When was that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 23 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11214,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 419615,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:33"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 23 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11214,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11214,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 419616,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, everybody. There are more than enough members present for us to begin the proceedings. Gordon, would you like to join the rest of us, or are you setting up an alternative committee of your own over there?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 419618,
      "EditedText": "The first item on our agenda this morning relates to petition PE14 from the Carbeth Hutters Association. Members will recall that when we last dealt with that, at our meeting of 26 October, a number of statements were made by witnesses on behalf of the Barns-Graham estate. Some of those comments related to the motivation for the Scottish Landowners Federation's stance towards the estate. Given the allegations that have been made, we felt that it was only appropriate to ask the Scottish Landowners Federation to talk to us briefly about its position and to give it the opportunity to consider the questions that were raised by the representatives of the estate.We are concerned, in particular, with the comments that were made by Mr Andrew Smith. For the sake of those members of the committee who do not have copies of the Official Report of our meeting of 26 October with them, I will read out the relevant passage. Mr Andrew Smith stated:\"The Scottish Landowners Federation has a very difficult job on its hands, trying to convince a sceptical public that it has a role to play. The public perception is that the SLF represents fat-cat absentee landlords who rent out their land for lots of money, for hunting, shooting and fishing and who own huge tracts of Scotland and do not attend to it. What could be more perfect when trying to redress that opinion than to take on a landlord and pillory him in the press? That is exactly what the Scottish Landowners Federation has done.Allan Barns-Graham's estate has perhaps the greatest public access of any estate—certainly any lowland estate—in Scotland. There are rights of way through it and there is access to crags for climbers and the public. I think that the Scottish Landowners Federation chose to come out publicly, very strongly against Carbeth estate because it was politically expedient: it suited its purpose nicely.\"—Official Report, Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 October 1999; c 258.I welcome the witnesses from the Scottish Landowners Federation. After they have introduced themselves to the committee, we will take a brief statement from the SLF. No doubt committee members will then have questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Smith (Scottish Landowners Federation): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 419620,
      "EditedText": "My name is Michael Smith and I am the in-house legal adviser to the Scottish Landowners Federation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 419625,
      "EditedText": "You have seen the statements that were made at our meeting of 26 October. Can you address what is a political—with a small p—criticism of the Scottish Landowners Federation's stance? Can you respond to what has been said by indicating why you have chosen to back the hutters, rather than the landowner, who might, in the first instance, have been the obvious person for you to have supported?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 419627,
      "EditedText": "Do other members of the committee have questions for the witnesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 419635,
      "EditedText": "We are not suggesting that a special case be made of the Carbeth hutters, but that the situation of hutters per se needs to be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 419641,
      "EditedText": "It is unusual for such a charge to be levied in a rural situation, but my objection was rather to the estate's levying a service charge to recoup a capital cost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 419642,
      "EditedText": "It is appropriate for me to make clear that the document to which we are referring is the same document that Mr Ballance of the Carbeth Hutters Association mentioned. At the time it was not available to us, but today's witnesses have been kind enough to supply it. We thank them for that. Are any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 419643,
      "EditedText": "I take it that, as a trustee, you have been out to the estate and that you know it reasonably well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 419649,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that the existing lease is the same as that which existed when the estate was set up. Is that the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 419651,
      "EditedText": "Would it be fair to say that the same lease has existed throughout, but that there is now a slightly different application of it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 419653,
      "EditedText": "In your view, is the lease that is in force particularly unusual?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 419657,
      "EditedText": "It is unusual in the sense that it gives the landlord quite inordinate powers over the other party to the lease.The Carbeth hutters have asked the committee to introduce some sort of protective legislation. Do you have a view on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 419658,
      "EditedText": "It would probably be appropriate to review the position of ground leases of various kinds. Ground leases probably fall into three categories. I am speaking now purely about domestic dwelling houses or property that is lived in by people to some extent. I am not addressing the question of commercial property.The first category is what I might call traditional ground leases: those that were entered into before 1974 and that run for perhaps 99 years, or in some cases for 999 years, although one does see other periods. The second category is what I might call the unprotected mobile home or caravan. In many cases, these mobile homes are quite luxurious and are on sites that are run purely for commercial purposes. They are second homes. People may like to have a fairly luxurious caravan on a site somewhere in the country. That is a purely commercial operation.The Carbeth huts are an example of the third category: huts or properties that are of less value and that are on ground that is let under ground leases. A mix of social and commercial considerations may be involved in the lease.One can distinguish those three categories. Whatever one wanted to do, in examining the Carbeth hutting type of situation, one would need to be careful that one did not cause complications for the rather more commercial dwelling leases or for the traditional ground leases. One has to be careful that what one does for one category does not create problems for other categories."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 419660,
      "EditedText": "I believe that other comparisons can be made, although the sites are not located in Scotland. Comparisons have been made with situations in Wales. My background is as a professional chartered surveyor, and I believe that a chartered surveyor would be perfectly capable of fixing a rent for the sites at Carbeth."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 419665,
      "EditedText": "Why?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 419666,
      "EditedText": "The rent acts are based directly on comparisons or on a market value."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 419669,
      "EditedText": "How could an arbiter fix a length of term?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 419671,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to press you on this point, but I am trying to get my mind around that. I can see how an arbiter would fix rent—one party says that it should be £5,000, the other says it should be £2,000, and an arbiter fixes the rent. However, I am finding it difficult to understand how an arbiter could fix a length of term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 419672,
      "EditedText": "At Carbeth, the hutters are, in effect, sitting tenants. If the landowner and the tenant cannot reach an agreement on any points of the lease, there is nothing to stop them going to arbitration in order to arrive at an agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 419674,
      "EditedText": "Could you explain what an ish is, for the benefit of those committee members who are not legally qualified?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 419677,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 419680,
      "EditedText": "For the avoidance of doubt, has the Scottish Landowners Federation publicly criticised other landowners in the past?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 419683,
      "EditedText": "We now move to the witnesses who are here for item 2 on the agenda, on the recent announcement of cuts in funding to the Scottish Prison Service.Although the order on the agenda indicates that we will hear the trade union side first, then the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service, I think it might be more appropriate if we were to hear Tony Cameron first. I ask Tony Cameron to come forward. We will hear evidence from him and from the Scottish Prison Service first and then we will allow the trade union side to give evidence.I understand that Mr Cameron is accompanied today by Mike Duffy, board member and director of the south and west area of the Scottish Prison Service. Good morning, Mr Duffy. I know Mr Duffy from a different job. Mr Cameron is also accompanied by Peter Russell, director of human resources, and by Alastair MacIntyre, non-executive director.I understand, Mr Cameron, that you wish to make a short opening statement before we proceed to questions. Please begin that statement now, but keep it reasonably tight, as I am sure that members have a lot of questions to ask."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron (Scottish Prison Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 419684,
      "EditedText": "Convener, you wrote to me on 4 November and I replied on 11 November, explaining the financial background to this issue. I also enclosed my note of 21 October to all Scottish Prison Service staff and some question and answer material which we provided for them.On 15 November, I sent all members of this committee a news release from the SPS, with our announcement. I wrote to you, convener, on the same day and provided further Q and A material which we used with our staff. I assume that all members have seen the material.The news release contains the main decisions that the SPS board has taken but, on Monday, to assist the committee, I sent a copy of the paper which the board considered when meeting to discuss the issue. I would like to say a few words about that. It is not a formal report, but an internal management document which assisted our decision taking. It is not a record of the board's decisions, but the board accepted the paper's main conclusions.The board decided to place greater stress than the paper placed on one aspect which I want to mention: the capital programme and what we call our estate strategy. We asked ourselves if we agreed to re-evaluate our use of the Low Moss prison site. The board thought that a strategic examination of the capital programme as a whole was needed in relation to the reduced number of sites. The Scottish Prison Service will be working on that examination next year.We have planned our announced rationalisation programme to minimise the operational impact across the service. We have tried, where possible, to ensure that the valuable programmes that are under way throughout the service are continued. Our task now is to complete the rationalisation programme as soon as possible without disrupting that valuable work. My preferred approach is for the SPS management and the trade union side to work together.I want to finish by underlining one important point: apart from Alastair MacIntyre, we are all civil servants and public servants, as are prison officers and all SPS staff. Our salaries—and all the money we spend—are paid for by the taxpayer, who has a right to expect the very best value for money for every pound allocated to us. That is what we aim to achieve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 419693,
      "EditedText": "So, in your evidence, you cannot actually tell us how the savings were accrued?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1863,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 419699,
      "EditedText": "With respect, I do not think that that is a reasonable answer. You were saving the money: it was obviously being saved for a purpose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 419700,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 419704,
      "EditedText": "It is salaries, current, capital—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 419706,
      "EditedText": "Salaries, buildings, heat, light, power: everything that a business spends money on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 419708,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 419717,
      "EditedText": "Are you telling this committee that the announcements about job losses and prison quotas have absolutely nothing to do with the £13 million cut?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 419719,
      "EditedText": "What are you saying? What do you mean by no? Do the announcements have nothing to do with the cut, or do they have something to do with it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 419721,
      "EditedText": "I have a copy of a minute from a meeting that took place in the spring earlier this year, when your predecessor, Mr Eddie Frizzell, was the chief executive. The minute, from April this year, states that:\"The staffing complement had drifted up and currently stood at 5000, and would have to come down a little over 3 years. Natural wastage should allow that.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 419725,
      "EditedText": "The minute mentions staff numbers coming down a little over three years and says that:\"Natural wastage should allow that.\"Do you consider that to be adequate notice of what was subsequently announced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 419732,
      "EditedText": "In August, the statisticians produced revised estimates of the prison population."
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  },
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 419739,
      "EditedText": "Never mind the facts. If the statisticians have got it right, that is fine."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "EditedText": "I did, but that is not to say that I accept every figure and word of it."
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      "EditedText": "That comes from the chief inspector's report."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes, I have got that. Where is the 8 per cent that you mentioned?"
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      "EditedText": "I did a rough calculation and took an average. I am quoting Barlinnie, for example, as being 32 per cent overcrowded and Edinburgh as being 16 per cent overcrowded."
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    "ID": "C419750",
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      "EditedText": "At the moment, we are 8 per cent under capacity."
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      "EditedText": "So there has been a major change there."
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    "ID": "C419752",
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      "EditedText": "No, not at all. You have not included the prisons that are not full."
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      "EditedText": "I did. I totalled up the number of places that are shown on that page and found that there were, I think, 571 places too few."
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      "EditedText": "Totalling up those numbers is not the right way to go about it; totalling up all the prison numbers is."
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      "EditedText": "The chief inspector gets his numbers from the same statisticians as we do."
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      "EditedText": "No."
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      "EditedText": "Can you remind the committee, Mr Cameron, when you took over the role of chief executive?"
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      "EditedText": "Can you also advise us when the review that is now being acted upon was initiated?"
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 419773,
      "EditedText": "The announcement was made on that date: 21 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 419774,
      "EditedText": "Given the short time that you have been in your job, perhaps you should have had some time to settle in before you looked for major changes to the Prison Service. Is it fair to say that the real reason for this review is simply to find a quick means of cutting that £13.5 million out of the budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 419776,
      "EditedText": "Do you not think that the haste with which this has been undertaken could present dangers in future? On the other hand, looking at the situation at Kilmarnock, perhaps you have got something in your back pocket, which is that if this does not quite work out, you could always find another private prison option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 419779,
      "EditedText": "I am quite satisfied by that. We have reduced the capacity of the Scottish Prison Service by the fraction that we think is safest: the open prisons and the medium-security prisons, not the high-security prisons. The public would expect no less."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 419781,
      "EditedText": "Probably not by the date at which people have generally understood that that will happen, which is about 2005. It would be technically possible, but difficult. In the letter I sent to the convener on Monday, I specifically drew attention to the board's decision that we need to decide what to do with the whole of our capital programme and our estates on the reduced number of sites. There are some spare spaces on the existing estate, in which we can invest.Our capital programme has not been cut. We have maintained it because it provides for improvements. However, you are right that there is a tension between ending slopping out by a particular date and providing places for more prisoners, if more come to us. That is something that we need to work through; there are no easy answers. Over the medium term, we need to look at where the priorities lie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 419782,
      "EditedText": "So the target to end slopping out by 2004-05 is directly affected by the clawing back of the £13 million? Is it no longer achievable because of the loss of that £13 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
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      "EditedText": "It may be possible, or providing more prisoner places may be possible. If you press on a balloon, it balloons out elsewhere. If it is not that, it will be something else; but that is a fair point. On our current resources, we cannot provide for increased prisoner numbers of, say, another 500—if, by 2004, we have 6,700 prisoners in our prisons—and end slopping out by 2005."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419784",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 419784,
      "EditedText": "Is it a direct consequence of the £13 million cut that you cannot guarantee that the medieval practice of slopping out will be abolished from our prisons by 2004-05?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419788",
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    },
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      "ID": 143
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 419788,
      "EditedText": "You told us in September that you agreed that Low Moss was in an appalling condition and was rightly condemned by HM chief inspector. You said that one of the reasons Low Moss was in such a poor condition, and that work had not been carried out there, was that the night sanitation programme had priority for the Prison Service. When we asked for improvements to Low Moss, you invited us to say where we would make the cuts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419790",
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      "ID": 143
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 419790,
      "EditedText": "We now find that Low Moss has not been modernised—no work has been done—and that there is a £13 million cut. Could that money, which had been accrued in savings, not have gone a long way to modernising the likes of Low Moss?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 143
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 419791,
      "EditedText": "It could, but if we had used £13 million for that, we could not have paid for the salaries over the next two years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419792",
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    },
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      "ID": 143
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 419792,
      "EditedText": "With respect, you do not have the money at all now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "EditedText": "No, not at all."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419796",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 419796,
      "EditedText": "So night sanitation is not happening, but that has not been turned on its head? Low Moss had never been improved because of the night sanitation programme. You have lost £13 million, which you were allegedly accruing for something. Low Moss is in a truly appalling condition and we have no night sanitation programme to be completed by 2004-05. Do you think that that is progress?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419798",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 419798,
      "EditedText": "I accept that you did not tell us that Low Moss was in an appalling condition in September. You had not visited Low Moss then. Have you done so since then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C419799",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 419802,
      "EditedText": "However, the £13 million that has been taken could have made a big difference to the prison estate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 419807,
      "EditedText": "I misunderstood."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 419810,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to the matter of efficiency savings. I appreciate that you have been in post for only a short time, but this committee requires some answers. I give you notice that if we do not get them today, we will have to have them. As I understand it, efficiency savings occur after all bills and salaries have been paid. Over how many years have efficiency savings been accrued?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 419811,
      "EditedText": "Four, five, maybe more—I am guessing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 419813,
      "EditedText": "I do not agree that efficiency savings have been made over and above the payment of salaries.As I understand the position, the SPS has accrued efficiency savings in its operations pretty well since it was formed in the early '90s. It will continue to do that. Any business that does not seek continuous improvement and greater efficiency to pay its way will be in difficulty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 419814,
      "EditedText": "All parts of the public sector—remember that this is the public sector and not a business—make efficiency savings, as a matter of course, once they have paid for everything for which they are due to pay, including salaries. You are saying something quite different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 419823,
      "EditedText": "We are not closing two open prisons. We are closing one open prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 419825,
      "EditedText": "We are closing three prisons, mothballing a unit, and amalgamating some prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 419827,
      "EditedText": "No, that is how we will make the savings—by closing prisons and reducing staffing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 419828,
      "EditedText": "Is that in addition to the £13 million/£11 million that you talked about earlier?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 419829,
      "EditedText": "I do not understand the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 419831,
      "EditedText": "We have not made the savings over the past five years. We will make the savings over the next two years. What has been redeployed is £7 million this year, and £6 million the year after, which we would otherwise have spent. The closures and reduction in staff are to enable us to live within our baseline of more than £200 million. We make efficiency savings by closing prisons, reducing staff, switching off the heat and power, and so on, and distributing the assets of those prisons across the rest of the estate. By doing that, our running costs will be £10 million or £11 million less than they otherwise would have been, as the paper that you have before you says."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 419836,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that the Scottish Prison Service makes no estimate of prison population?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 419840,
      "EditedText": "\"September 1999, the strategic steer for governors in charge of establishments projected that the prisoner population would reach some 6,700 on average by the year 2003-2004.\" Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 419841,
      "EditedText": "Yes, based on the figures that have been given to us by the statisticians."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 419844,
      "EditedText": "Do you expect the prison population to increase, rather than decrease?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 419846,
      "EditedText": "So you intend to close establishments in the face of an expected increase in the prison population?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 419847,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 419852,
      "EditedText": "Will you make representations to anyone about your concerns about overcrowding? As Trish Marwick said, it seems unlikely that you will meet the aspirations for ending slopping out. Will you raise those concerns?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alastair MacIntyre: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 419857,
      "EditedText": "It worries me. As you can see from our corporate plan, we aspire to a 21st century prison service. We ought to be setting an example. It is nearly the new millennium and we have prisons built largely in the 19th century and we have slopping out. It is disappointing. We are trying to achieve an end to it within the stated time scale but we would not be honest if we did not say that it is likely to be into the second half of the first decade of the millennium before we get it sorted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 419858,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your honesty. My final question is whether closing an open prison is likely to be a detriment to the service. I would have thought open prisons contribute to diversity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 419870,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419884",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "ContributionID": 419884,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean prison officers or my staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 558.0,
      "ContributionID": 419890,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 570.0,
      "ContributionID": 419896,
      "EditedText": "I agree, but the figures could move in the other direction. I am not arguing that there is a static prison population, just that we have observed a static prison population over the past two or three years. That was not expected, but it is has turned out that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 575.0,
      "ContributionID": 419898,
      "EditedText": "Not at current numbers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "ContributionID": 419900,
      "EditedText": "At current numbers, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 587.0,
      "ContributionID": 419904,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but we will examine our estates and capital programmes to find out the best use of the capital programme. We can use some of the capital for increased capacity or for other purposes, but it is open to us to adjust the capital programme. That is why my letter specifically says that the board's most significant decision is to examine the capital programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419910",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 599.0,
      "ContributionID": 419910,
      "EditedText": "We will see whether we have room to manoeuvre."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "ContributionID": 419914,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419918",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 615.0,
      "ContributionID": 419918,
      "EditedText": "I know that you did not ask that, but—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419920",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 619.0,
      "ContributionID": 419920,
      "EditedText": "The criteria are set out in the paper on the options for the rationalisation of the SPS estate. The first option was to close Longriggend and Low Moss, which we did not do for custody and order reasons. We considered a number of criteria. Mike Duffy will tell the committee what his team examined at Penninghame."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419931",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 641.0,
      "ContributionID": 419931,
      "EditedText": "A number of my questions have already been asked by other members, so I shall be brief. I have been able to skim through the papers only briefly while others have been talking. However, it appears that, in the arguments for and against closure, both Penninghame and Dungavel are identified as being on prime sites that could easily be disposed of on the open market for around £1 million. Is that the real reason for those two prisons being identified, rather than some of the other arguments that have been articulated this morning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419936",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 651.0,
      "ContributionID": 419936,
      "EditedText": "They all have market values."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419937",
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      "ID": 143
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 653.0,
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      "EditedText": "Those are the only two market values that are mentioned."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419941",
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 661.0,
      "ContributionID": 419941,
      "EditedText": "You could draw different conclusions. Perhaps you can see why I did so.On Shotts prison, which is not one of those identified for closure, the report says that other savings will be accumulated by amalgamating the complex, yet the column covering arguments for retention says that one of the advantages of Shotts is that it provides segregated accommodation. Are those two contradictory?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 669.0,
      "ContributionID": 419945,
      "EditedText": "I hear what you are saying about your ability to rationalise the use of the prisons that will remain, but you have not been able to do that up to now. Unless there is a difference in the category of prisoners—a point that Pauline McNeill alluded to—it seems unlikely that we will be able to reduce overcrowding in higher-security prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 675.0,
      "ContributionID": 419948,
      "EditedText": "It increases, falls, then stabilises. The last four columns are not statistically different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 681.0,
      "ContributionID": 419951,
      "EditedText": "No, after an increase."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 693.0,
      "ContributionID": 419957,
      "EditedText": "Can you tell us about time off in lieu? Why, if so much money is swilling around in the budget and savings can be made, have the number of hours for time off in lieu not been made up to your staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 695.0,
      "ContributionID": 419958,
      "EditedText": "And the time that they owe us should be made up as well?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 699.0,
      "ContributionID": 419960,
      "EditedText": "We always owe them. There is nothing peculiar about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 701.0,
      "ContributionID": 419961,
      "EditedText": "But if savings were to be made, why could your staff not get time off in lieu of pay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Russell (Scottish Prison Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 706.0,
      "ContributionID": 419963,
      "EditedText": "Time off in lieu has reduced by around 20 per cent over the past year. It currently sits at about 20 hours per member of staff. That is a little over two shifts. Many staff find that a convenient arrangement. People on flexitime in offices often like to have some time in their back pocket to allow for contingencies. Some individuals have excessive TOIL, but overall, TOIL has been reduced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 710.0,
      "ContributionID": 419965,
      "EditedText": "Those arguments suggest that the numbers that the statisticians use do not allow for that. I do not know whether they do. One could also argue that the alternatives to custody might have the opposite effect. Laymen can debate whether the figures are right or wrong, but I am not in a position to do that. Like us, the statisticians are aware of Government policy and the effects of sentencing. They have reached their best estimates accordingly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 718.0,
      "ContributionID": 419969,
      "EditedText": "Hindsight is a wonderful thing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 726.0,
      "ContributionID": 419973,
      "EditedText": "There are two options in those circumstances. First, we will have very high numbers in relation to available prisoner places, and we will have to cope with significant overcrowding. The other option is to provide more prisoner places than we have resources to do now. We might be able to make some adjustment by reordering our capital programme. I repeat that that is why we will have a fundamental examination of that programme.You are quite correct to assume that we are unlikely to have enough slack in our available capacity to provide for 6,700 prisoners. In such circumstances, the Executive needs to take a view on whether and, if so, how to provide extra spaces."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 732.0,
      "ContributionID": 419976,
      "EditedText": "When will we get those specific suggestions on how to deal with 6,700 people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 736.0,
      "ContributionID": 419978,
      "EditedText": "Can I press you on this? When next year might we expect to get your suggestions on how to cope with the situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 740.0,
      "ContributionID": 419980,
      "EditedText": "That ends this section of the evidence on prisons. I thank the witnesses for their attendance—they are welcome to stay to hear the remainder of the evidence. Committee members will be aware that we have overrun considerably. We have other items on the agenda. It is my intention to push the end of the meeting past 12.30 pm. Labour members do not have a group meeting today. I appreciate that some members will have meetings, but we might need to work on after 12.30 pm to ensure that we finish our work today. We will try not to be too late.I apologise to the witnesses from the trade union side, who have had to sit here for considerably longer than they anticipated. I hope that they understand why that was considered appropriate. I thank them for their forbearance. We have continued confusion about the trade union side in the Prison Service. Because it is the biggest union, there is a tendency to refer to the trade union side as the Scottish Prison Officers Association, but the trade union side is more than just the SPOA. Today we have before us Andrew Hogg, secretary of the trade union side, and David Melrose, chair of the trade union side. David Melrose is also chairman of the SPOA, which helps to add to the confusion, and Derek Turner is general secretary of the SPOA. We will proceed directly to questioning. I have an initial question. The chief executive made references to a clear indication that was supposed to have been given in the spring this year in respect of likely job losses. I mentioned to Mr Cameron a minute that had been provided to me and which did not make matters clear cut. I would like to hear the trade union's views on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 744.0,
      "ContributionID": 419982,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned natural wastage, but is not the average age of staff in the Prison Service about 28? That suggests that there will not be a lot of natural wastage in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419984",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 748.0,
      "ContributionID": 419984,
      "EditedText": "Am I right to say that the average age is 28?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 750.0,
      "ContributionID": 419985,
      "EditedText": "It is very low, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 756.0,
      "ContributionID": 419988,
      "EditedText": "Have you examined the time off in lieu that has been accrued by those at Dungavel and Penninghame? Is time off in lieu a problem in those places or only in overcrowded prisons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 767.0,
      "ContributionID": 419993,
      "EditedText": "I would love to be able to tell you the cost per prisoner place at Kilmarnock, but we are told that that is commercially confidential. We cannot find out that figure. That is a concern for us, because Kilmarnock prison is held up as the paragon of virtue against the public sector. It is an uneven playing field, as we do not know what we are being compared with: it is like comparing apples with pears. We hope that the proposal to use house blocks and vacant space within establishments is the preferred option—perhaps the cheaper option—should further accommodation be required. We recognise the potential for speculative buying by private sector companies if prisons such as Dungavel are shut for future refurbishment. That is a fear for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 773.0,
      "ContributionID": 419996,
      "EditedText": "That is a real cause for concern to us. We believe that the decision represents one of the biggest impacts on the service in more than 100 years. We were incredulous about the time scale involved. We went from losing £13 million from the budget to closing a number of establishments and shedding 400 posts in the service. It was difficult for us to become involved in such a process because of our limited resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420008",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 797.0,
      "ContributionID": 420008,
      "EditedText": "Did the fact that people were not accessible lead to some of the riots in the past?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 803.0,
      "ContributionID": 420011,
      "EditedText": "Open prisons are a challenging environment that not every prisoner wants to go to. It is up to the Prison Service to encourage prisoners to move to that environment. Penninghame, as you probably know from the testimonies of various people who have visited Penninghame and its staff, is a challenging environment for prisoners. It incorporates the concept of small living areas in which prisoners can manage themselves and prepare for release. It is sometimes difficult to get prisoners to go there, but that is not to say that we should not be trying to do that as best we can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 807.0,
      "ContributionID": 420013,
      "EditedText": "There may be some overcapacity, but it depends on the overall number of prisoners—that dictates the number that can be farmed out to the various other prisons. In the past, it was proposed that Friarton prison should close. We did not think that that was a good idea, as it meant closing an entire prison only to re-open it, which would be more difficult. We put alternative suggestions to the prisons board at the time, such as closing parts of the accommodation throughout the estate that could be brought on-stream if the number of prisoners rose again. That was accepted at that time—thankfully, as the number of prisoners rose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 809.0,
      "ContributionID": 420014,
      "EditedText": "It was made clear to me yesterday, when I visited Dungavel, that there are times when Prison Service management makes a decision to underpopulate establishments. Such was the case at Dungavel over the past year. That happened to facilitate the introduction of the drug-free prison. I understand that the area director who is responsible for Dungavel had indicated to the governor of Dungavel that he would be allowed to have his prison run short of prisoners by around 25 per cent, to achieve a target. There will be times when there is a requirement to have prisons run short of prisoners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 811.0,
      "ContributionID": 420015,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that the estate could do without one open prison, but that it needs another prison or extensions to other prisons? You are not of the same view as the Scottish Prison Service, that we are over-provided for by open prisons but not well enough provided for by other types of prisons? That is not your position?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 813.0,
      "ContributionID": 420016,
      "EditedText": "That is certainly not our position. We consider that there is a need for all the various types of establishment throughout the estate and we recognise their value in the Prison Service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 815.0,
      "ContributionID": 420017,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I shall now ask you a technical question to which I do not know the answer. When there is talk of the redeployment of prison officers, is there anything to suggest that an officer in an open prison cannot automatically transfer to another type of prison? Are the skills and training different, so that an intervening course would be necessary, or is that not the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 817.0,
      "ContributionID": 420018,
      "EditedText": "There is a chance of that. A generic training exercise takes place at the beginning of one service and no further training is necessary to gain the expertise that is required to carry out an officer's duties in the various establishments. There is no further training. At the last meeting of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which we attended, the point was made that an officer who has carried out all his service—let us say 12 years—at Longriggend, an untried young offenders institution, may encounter difficulty applying to be transferred to an open prison or a high security prison within the estate. It is unfortunate—we identified it before—that there is no on-going training to enable prison staff to make that move."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Hogg: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 834.0,
      "ContributionID": 420026,
      "EditedText": "That is our understanding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 846.0,
      "ContributionID": 420032,
      "EditedText": "Any change to the present system will impact on our ability to deliver. After working hard over the past four or five years to deliver what they have delivered and reach this stage, job losses and the resulting demoralisation will impact on the staff's ability to deliver the initiatives in the service. I have heard platitudes about staff. Staff are not interested in platitudes. It is nice to hear them, but staff want to hear that they are being treated fairly and are valued."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 854.0,
      "ContributionID": 420036,
      "EditedText": "We had no knowledge of that amount. There had been some speculation about a sum of money earlier in the year when we were discussing pay, but we could not confirm the figure. As pay negotiators, we were obviously interested in knowing what funds were available to pay the staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420040",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 862.0,
      "ContributionID": 420040,
      "EditedText": "It was my understanding that the comprehensive spending review for the next three years starting this year produced a flat budget across the three-year period, with uplifts of £3 million, £2 million and £1 million in each of those years. That is barely enough to cover the costs of staff wage rises and inflation. I understood that the money that was earmarked from the underspend would be built into the budget for the next three years, allowing us to cover the cost of wage rises."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Hogg: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 870.0,
      "ContributionID": 420044,
      "EditedText": "Very much so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Hogg: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 874.0,
      "ContributionID": 420046,
      "EditedText": "I am aware only of speculation. I have never seen evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 886.0,
      "ContributionID": 420052,
      "EditedText": "I have two quick points that have been touched on by Christine Grahame.When we spoke in September, you referred to the survey, \"Work and Health in the Scottish Prison Service\". Almost 50 per cent of the prison officers who responded to that survey were concerned about long-term job security. I found that a surprising figure. Obviously prison officers knew in September something that the rest of us did not know. If you conducted a similar survey now, do you think that that figure would be higher or lower?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 888.0,
      "ContributionID": 420053,
      "EditedText": "I think it would be higher, following the recent announcements. The organisation has been going through a tremendous amount of flux over the years. There have been threats of privatised prisons and various other things. People are continually looking for packages to get out, because of the uncertainty. That is not healthy for any organisation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 892.0,
      "ContributionID": 420055,
      "EditedText": "Originally, the trade union side had to decide whether to participate in the action team. The original decision was that two nominated representatives would attend the meeting of the action team. When we went to speak to Mr Duffy, the impression that we got was that things would be moving very fast and that it would not be a working party as such, but that team members would be tasked to carry out the work on behalf of Mr Duffy, who would report to the prisons board on his decisions and recommendations. We felt that our role in such a process would be peripheral, apart from putting in some suggestions. We put in some suggestions about closing or keeping closed some of the areas in prisons that are now closed for refurbishment, but the action group felt that that did not produce enough savings overall. We were left to decide which prisons were to close. As a trade union side, we reported to the action group that we did not feel that that was a good position to put anyone in, and that we would do better to get involved with the human resource issues of the prison closures, trying to manage those as best we could."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 900.0,
      "ContributionID": 420059,
      "EditedText": "It is as static as it can be, while ensuring that specialist posts in the organisation are filled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 902.0,
      "ContributionID": 420060,
      "EditedText": "There may be a double impact, in that when recruitment starts again, individuals who intend to take up a job in the Prison Service may think twice as a result of what is happening now. There may be a recruitment problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9111472+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 860.0,
      "ContributionID": 420039,
      "EditedText": "We can ask about that, of course, and try to determine how it happened. This question may now be superfluous, but do you know what that money might be earmarked for?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 577.0,
      "ContributionID": 419899,
      "EditedText": "Mr Fairweather goes on to say that an increase in numbers \"will affect the refurbishment programme and reduce the Prison Service's options\".Furthermore, he says:\"Of course, if we have overcrowding again, it will reduce the ability of the staff to continue various programmes; they will be forced back into dealing only with what is in front of them.\" You concede that point. Mr Fairweather says that it is a complicated matter, but then comments:\"Spare capacity is needed because, if there is trouble in a prison, there must always be somewhere to decant inmates to. The number is kept to the absolute minimum, but it will always be required.\"—Official Report, Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 September 1999; c 101.When the three prisons close, will there be spare capacity during refurbishment or if there is trouble?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 621.0,
      "ContributionID": 419921,
      "EditedText": "I got this 22-page document only today, and I have not had the opportunity to look at it. At the convener's discretion, we might have to have you and other witnesses back, because I have certainly not been able to digest all the information in the many papers that are before us. However, based on what you have said, the report on Dungavel is good. I want to move on to discuss Penninghame."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 637.0,
      "ContributionID": 419929,
      "EditedText": "I would dispute that. My last point concerns the morale of the staff, an issue that I would like to discuss with prison officers later. I am most concerned about the way in which the people who work in the Prison Service have been dealt with. When you came before us in September, were you aware that £30 million—or a substantial part of that little piggy pot—would have to be taken away from the system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 419865,
      "EditedText": "That is good. I am pleased about that, because I have listened very carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 419867,
      "EditedText": "But you have said why this is happening—plain connection has been made for me.I now refer you to your corporate plan, to the evidence that you and Mr Clive Fairweather gave at the Justice and Home Affairs Committee's meeting of Tuesday 14 September, to the report of the chief inspector of prisons and—if I get the chance before Roseanna cuts me off—the papers that we have received from Penninghame prison.On page 15 of your corporate plan, which is dated August 1999, you say:\"The number of prisoners is projected to rise to an average of 6,200 in 1999-2000\".That is not what you are saying now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 419869,
      "EditedText": "On page 16, under goal 1, you mention\"eliminating or at least minimising overcrowding\".Does that remain an aim?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 419873,
      "EditedText": "I am referring to the second line from the bottom on page 16. That objective is now being deferred because £13 million is going elsewhere.Chapter 5 on page 18 gives prison population projections for 1999-2000 through to 2001-02. Are those now wrong? Are they different?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 419875,
      "EditedText": "In two months, they have become different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 419879,
      "EditedText": "When?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 544.0,
      "ContributionID": 419883,
      "EditedText": "On page 20 of the document, under the heading \"Staff Relations\", you say:\"The Scottish Prison Service remains committed to good relations with staff, and to improving communications. Formal and informal industrial relations involving information, consultation and negotiation with recognised trade unions are pursued through Whitley Council mechanisms.\"I refer to that because the prison officers might have a different view on whether that was the case here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 556.0,
      "ContributionID": 419889,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to go back over the issue of slopping out, which Tricia dealt with thoroughly. We now know why the goal of ending that has been dropped, although it is a barbaric, Victorian practice that is not appropriate to a new century—that is one of the costs that we must pay.I want to ask about prison numbers. The figures vary over a period of a few months, so we do not really know what numbers we are dealing with. Do you concede that they could vary again within a few months?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 568.0,
      "ContributionID": 419895,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but you are erring on the way down, which is handy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 419897,
      "EditedText": "I refer you now to the Official Report for our meeting of Tuesday 14 September, at which Mr Clive Fairweather was giving evidence on the complicated matter of prisons capacity. He said:\"I suspect that that means that pockets of overcrowding will continue for the next couple of years at least, although, in theory—provided that the prison population steadies at 6,000—there will be spare capacity to allow the refurbishment to take place.\"That ties in with the fact that you will not be able to have decanted prisoners anywhere because they will be squeezed into the minimum amount of space."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 23 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11214,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11214,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 419617,
      "EditedText": "I am in a huff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 419626,
      "EditedText": "We felt that there was an element of natural injustice in what was happening at Carbeth. There was certainly nothing political—with either a small or a large p—in what we were trying to do. There was a more fundamental issue of how one deals with short-term leases of what is, in effect, a mixture of commercial and social property. I do not think that it is relevant to the Carbeth hutters' situation for me to comment on what amounts to a rant by Mr Smith against the SLF's position. Quite frankly, what he says is not true and does not merit a response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 419636,
      "EditedText": "You used the phrase \"natural injustice\" to describe the situation in which the Carbeth hutters find themselves. In the paper that you have been kind enough to submit to us this morning, you make great play of what you regard as the unacceptably high service charge on the estate. Is that the main element of the natural injustice that you have identified, or does it extend to the lease conditions and the insecurity of tenure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 419637,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a copy of the lease in front of me, so I am speaking from memory. However, I believe that the notice periods and the terms of compensation that it stipulates are unreasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 419638,
      "EditedText": "Do you believe that the level of the service charge is also unreasonable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 419646,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 419652,
      "EditedText": "That would be fair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 419655,
      "EditedText": "I refer in particular to the terms of the lease on notice to quit, which is renewed annually. Is that unusual?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 419656,
      "EditedText": "I think that it probably is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 419661,
      "EditedText": "So do you think that it is simply not right to say that it is not practical to fix rents?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 419662,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 419663,
      "EditedText": "The other problem occurs when there is something that I describe as being like a heritable structure on the land. The landlord knows that—he rents out the ground with the heritable structure in place or he allows people to build on his land a structure that, for all practical purposes, can never be moved. Do you think that some sort of rent control of that situation would be appropriate, such as can be found in a rent act situation, or would that cause more problems than it would solve?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 419664,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would cause more problems than it would solve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 419668,
      "EditedText": "A third-party arbiter, as you suggested, who could fix the rent would probably overcome the need to have any statutory measures such as a rent act. Once an arbiter has fixed the rent, there is immediately an indication of what the level of rent should be. The next person would be able to point to the particular level at which the arbiter fixed the rent, which is therefore deemed to become the market rent. Equally, the arbiter could decide on the length of term of the lease, if the parties were unable to agree that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 419670,
      "EditedText": "If the parties do not agree, they could always use an arbiter to broker an agreement. That occurs in other forms of lease, where, if the two parties cannot agree, they can use an arbiter to sort out the disagreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 419676,
      "EditedText": "So the tenant leaves?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 419679,
      "EditedText": "Michael Smith has been able to put across the Scottish Landowners Federation's view of the kind of lease that would deal with the Carbeth situation—one that does not impinge on other types of lease but that sorts out this particular problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 419685,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I anticipate a fair number of questions.I would like to go through the letter that you sent on 11 November in response to my letter on behalf of the committee, dated 4 November. I would like to clarify some of the things in your letter, then we can move on to other questions. In my letter, I asked for an explanation of how the money, which is now being clawed back, had been saved over the years. Your response in your letter was:\"The Scottish Prison Service generated savings in running costs budget heads of £13m\".Your letter continued:\"That was prudent financial management in accordance with the end-year flexibility (EYF) Rules applicable to SPS as an Agency of the then Scottish Office. . . . This funding was earmarked to support the restructuring of our resources\".When you say that the SPS\"generated savings in running costs budget heads\",what budget heads were those savings generated from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 419686,
      "EditedText": "In all."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 419687,
      "EditedText": "The committee has expressed a desire to know how the money was accrued in the first place: what savings were being made in what areas. It was money that was clearly not being spent in the Prison Service and which was being piled up. We are making no judgment about that, of course, because there may have been good reasons for it, but we are curious to know from which budget heads the savings were generated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 419688,
      "EditedText": "One answer to that is to regard the savings of £13 million like any other £13 million that the Scottish Prison Service would have had to spend. It is no different in pound notes from any other pound notes that the SPS would have spent. In that sense, the £13 million was due to be spent on everything that the Prison Service spends its money on. Over the two years, it is of the order of contributing 3p in every pound that the Scottish Prison Service will spend.It might be more helpful for the committee if I take a step back and sketch out how the finances of the Prison Service work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 419689,
      "EditedText": "It was a fairly simple question in fact, Mr Cameron. I am not making a value judgment. The committee simply wishes to know from which aspects of Prison Service spending the savings were made. We can then make a judgment on what money was not spent over the two years to accrue the £13 million, and on what was planned for the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 419690,
      "EditedText": "The answer is all: that is the simple answer to the simple question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 419694,
      "EditedText": "I can tell you how they were accrued: they were accrued from the total budget. They were, if you like, in proportion to our expenditure.The SPS, as an agency, has two types of finances. The intention is that its financial affairs should be run more like those of a business than is the case for a normal Government department. We produce income and expenditure and a balance sheet, like a business. We operate on what is called accrual accounting, in which income and expenditure are scored when the decisions are taken, not when the cash is received or spent. Although we keep an eye on the cash flow, as businesses do, the main focus of our attention is on our accrual accounts.We also have to operate as a Government department. Until now, Government accounting has been purely in cash. Each year, cash is allocated by Parliament. It has long been recognised, however, that there are expenditures that need to straddle the ends of financial years. Such expenditures can be on anything: they require cash to be carried forward, which is what gives rise to end-year flexibility.The £13 million was spending power generated by internal savings across the board, which any business might prudently accumulate over the years from its operating profit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 419695,
      "EditedText": "So there is no particular pattern to the way that those savings are generated. It is like having a massive piggy-bank. Every time that a few pence were saved here or there, you put them in the piggy-bank rather than putting them back into spending under the budget head that they came from."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 419697,
      "EditedText": "On what?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419701",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 419701,
      "EditedText": "The announcement that you were not going to be able to spend that saved money resulted in a great deal of speculation. What was the plan for that money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 419702,
      "EditedText": "In one sense, the money can be regarded as having contributed 3p in every pound spent by the SPS over the next two years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 419703,
      "EditedText": "Well, what does that mean, Mr Cameron?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 419707,
      "EditedText": "Which, presumably, is already budgeted for?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 419711,
      "EditedText": "And then taken away?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 419712,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely.Parliamentary authority is required to carry funds forward from one year to another. At that point, the £13 million has to be identified; it did not really exist in our accounts as a separate item. It was just part of our spending power.Let us look at it this way: if ministers had decided to reduce the Scottish Prison Service's baseline expenditure by the same amount, £13 million, the financial effect on the SPS would have been exactly the same over those two years. The fact that it was done using EYF does not alter the fact that the total spending power of the SPS was reduced by £13 million to deployment elsewhere in the justice programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 419714,
      "EditedText": "It was part of £24 million that we had accrued. We did not accrue £13 million; we accrued £24 million. We retained £11 million of it, and £13 million has been redeployed elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 419715,
      "EditedText": "As a direct result of the cuts in the budget, we now have the announcements of prison closures and job losses, of which we have all received details. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 419720,
      "EditedText": "They have something to do with it, but your first question was whether the announcements were a direct result of the cuts.Prior to the last expenditure statement by the Minister for Finance, it was evident that the Scottish Prison Service would need to reduce its staff. That was made plain to the trade union side at a meeting with them in the spring of this year, before the figure of £13 million was known about as a separate item. That was the position then.The relevance of the announcement that I made a few days ago is that it accelerated the process of downsizing the Scottish Prison Service. We would have had to reduce our estate and the number of staff in some way in any case. The difference is that we are having to do so more quickly than we had planned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 419724,
      "EditedText": "I did not say 400. I said that we would have to reduce our estate; 400 is approximately the number of staff that the financial information suggested that we would need to lose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 419726,
      "EditedText": "I cannot speak for my predecessor. We notified and quantified the amount of loss of posts because the number of prisoners was not rising as fast as has been previously estimated. Four hundred is the approximate number, and natural wastage would have enabled us to remove approximately that number of posts, as about 130 posts are lost by the Prison Service each year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 419736,
      "EditedText": "Without checking, I could not comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 419738,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not agree. It is important for us to focus on the numbers that our statisticians produce. Those are—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 419740,
      "EditedText": "There are fewer than 6,000 prisoners in our prisons and just over four months of this financial year to go. Nobody can tell exactly what the average prison population for the year 1999-2000 will be, but we will be surprised if it is above 6,000, because we have been running at less than 6,000 for most of the year. Something pretty strange would have had to happen in the past four months to make the figure much more than 6,000. That is the basis for our saying that we expect the average number of prisoners in this financial year to be around 6,000. It had been estimated by the statisticians that the current figure would be 6,200. Their later estimate, produced in September, was 6,100. As you can imagine, it is a difficult thing to forecast. We do not regard differences of that sort, but to my knowledge—and I stand to be corrected—there have never been as many as 7,000 prisoners in Scottish prisons. I have heard mention of 6,300 or so, but the figure has never been much more than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 419743,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps that has been overlooked. In that case, can we accept another aspect of the chief inspector's report, which shows the level of overcrowding in Scottish prisons, even on the base numbers that you suggested, as something like 8 per cent. I refer to Scottish Prison Service establishments and capacity, on page ix. Barlinnie is 32 per cent overcrowded, Greenock 14 per cent, Polmont 10 per cent, Inverness 15 per cent, Edinburgh 16 per cent—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 419744,
      "EditedText": "Where do you get the 8 per cent?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "ContributionID": 419746,
      "EditedText": "Where?"
    },
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  {
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 419757,
      "EditedText": "Mr Cameron, is your position at the moment that, as a result of the announcement that you have made, overcrowding will not be an issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 419758,
      "EditedText": "What we have announced is unlikely to make overcrowding any different from what it would have been. Phil Gallie is correct in saying that we have overcrowding in some prisons, although not over the whole estate. In the recent past, even when we have had overcrowding in the high-security prisons—if one can put it like that—we have still had a considerable number of spare, unfilled places at the medium-security and open prisons such as Dungavel, Penninghame, Noranside and Castle Huntly. Reducing the capacity of the open estate and the medium to low-security estate is unlikely to affect overcrowding. That was an important point in our deliberations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 419759,
      "EditedText": "Included with the internal note that you put out to various staff on 21 October was a question and answer sheet. Curiously, it was omitted from the information that you sent to the committee. You kindly sent the subsequent question and answer sheet, but not the original one, which included the question:\"Will the inevitable overcrowding cause unrest?\"Judging by the initial advice that you were putting around internally, you have attempted to backtrack on the issue of overcrowding. Your initial response was that overcrowding would be the inevitable result of the announcement about the clawback of the £13 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 419761,
      "EditedText": "It was part of a four-page question and answer sheet, which looks different from the one that you subsequently gave to us. I refer to the second last question from the end. The question and answer sheet—along with a copy of your letter dated 21 October 1999—was provided to me by a prison officer on the Friday, the day after the announcement was made. I find it curious that the question and answer sheet that was helpfully given to the committee does not use the tone of the original one. I am sure it is an oversight that that was not sent to the rest of the committee, for us to see the shift in emphasis. Are you now saying, \"Will the inevitable overcrowding cause unrest?\" and that your initial response in the Scottish Prisons Service was wrong?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 419763,
      "EditedText": "With respect, that is not the second last question on the sheet that I have, which was given to me by a prison officer on the Friday immediately after the cuts. That says:\"Will the inevitable overcrowding cause unrest?\"The answer to that was:\"Supervision of prisoners is more difficult in overcrowded conditions but care will be taken to ensure that issues like prisoners visits and other regime opportunities are not affected. SPS has managed overcrowding in the past without major difficulties.\"The question and answer sheet was put out to prison officers on the Friday, the day after the original announcement of the £13 million cut. Do you agree that the tone of the question and answer I have mentioned is somewhat different to the indications that you are giving to the committee this morning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 419766,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 419778,
      "EditedText": "I question the word careful, given the time scale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 419780,
      "EditedText": "Is the previous undertaking to end slopping out by 2004-05 now achievable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 419789,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 419797,
      "EditedText": "I do not agree that Low Moss is in a truly appalling condition, nor did I say to the committee in September that it was. I said that the programme of capital works was focused on ending slopping out.Low Moss is a valuable site. We are quite open about the fact that the buildings are less than satisfactory. It is untrue to say that no money has been spent on Low Moss; money has been, and will continue to be, spent on Low Moss.You are right that the comprehensive spending review undertaken by the Government before the Scottish Parliament elections made improvements in night sanitation the No 1 priority for the capital programme—in sites other than Low Moss, as it already has night sanitation. I told the committee that that was the policy. I am now telling you that it is unlikely that we will achieve the 2004-05 aspiration—I do not agree that it was a target—particularly if we have to find accommodation for increased numbers of prisoners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 419800,
      "EditedText": "I refer you to the evidence that you gave to this committee in September. You said:\"One of the reasons that less has been done there is that a ministerial decision was taken that the priority for the Prison Service was to end slopping out by 2004-05.\"When Christine Grahame asked you about the wooden huts and the disgraceful state of Low Moss, you posed a question to the committee. You said:\"What would you like to cut in order to do the work at Low Moss? The night sanitation programme?\"—Official Report, Justice and Home Affairs Committee,14 September 1999; c 151-52.The work at Low Moss was not done and the night sanitation programme has been cut, so do you no longer have the priorities that you had in September?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 419801,
      "EditedText": "The capital programme has not been cut since I appeared before the committee in September. However, work to refurbish prisons where night sanitation has not yet been installed will be logistically more difficult if we have an increased number of prisoners, because one has to decant whole halls to carry out the work. That is the tension between providing spaces for more prisoners and running the estate at near its total capacity, and ending slopping out. We have the same capital programme and the same amount of money to spend on capital works as we had in September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 419804,
      "EditedText": "With respect, you have announced that you will cut the salaries budget over the next couple of years—you will reduce the total number of prison officers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 419805,
      "EditedText": "Indeed, but the suggestion that I am hearing is that we should cut the salaries budget further to provide capital."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 419808,
      "EditedText": "When you were here in September, you said that Low Moss had not been improved because the priority was the night sanitation project. That project is no longer on target for 2004-05. Low Moss has not been improved. You have allowed £13 million that has been accrued over the years to go into the greater Scottish block."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 419809,
      "EditedText": "On your last point, ministers decided to redeploy the money elsewhere in the justice programme, as it is their perfect right to do. You will agree that it is a matter not for me, but for the Executive Cabinet, which took the decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 419812,
      "EditedText": "For more than five years, you have been making efficiency savings in the Prison Service over and above the payment of salaries, over and above the fact that you have said in your evidence that you have resolved the problem of overcrowding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 419815,
      "EditedText": "It is not once they have paid their salaries—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 419816,
      "EditedText": "If you have not paid your salaries, how can there possibly be savings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 419819,
      "EditedText": "It is a very important point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 419820,
      "EditedText": "Usually, efficiency savings are made for a purpose. Did you have a purpose in mind as you accrued efficiency savings over the past five years or more?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 419821,
      "EditedText": "The purpose was to contribute to the expenditure of the whole of the Prison Service. We did not have £13 million of accumulated savings; we had £24 million, of which £13 million has been redeployed, leaving us with £11 million. What you think that money would have been spent on is a matter of semantics. I repeat my view that it would have contributed to every pound of spending by the Prison Service over the next two or three years. It was part of our spending power. There would have been the same effect if ministers had decided to cut the baseline—forget EYF and accumulated savings—and redeploy £13 million elsewhere. Nobody would then have asked what we would have spent our baseline on, as it would have been obvious. The fact that the money is from end-year flexibility is just a piece of semantics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 419822,
      "EditedText": "I give notice that I am not happy with the answers that I have heard this morning. I ask the service to think about this and to give us a real understanding—not semantics—of where the efficiency savings came from, heading by heading, as the convener has already requested.Will the savings from the proposed closure of the two open prisons be in addition to what you have just said?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 419830,
      "EditedText": "If you close three prisons, you save on salaries; is that in addition to the savings that you have made over the past five years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 419832,
      "EditedText": "I would like to move on from that. Do you project a decline or an increase in the prison population?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 419833,
      "EditedText": "I do not project prison populations, the statisticians do. The paper before members gives their forecast."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 419834,
      "EditedText": "Mr Cameron, I do not think that that is an appropriate answer. You are the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service and you have a duty to be clear to the committee about the Scottish Prison Service estimates of prison population."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 419837,
      "EditedText": "We share a group of statisticians who work for the Scottish Executive. They provide the projections of prisoner population, based on the actions of the courts. We do not decide how many people we are going to receive. That is decided by those who pass the sentences.The latest estimate of projected prison population can be found on page five of our paper. We gave the first two figures on actual populations: 6,029 and 6,000. The other four figures on projected populations were provided by the statisticians, based on their models of sentencing behaviour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 419839,
      "EditedText": "Sorry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 419842,
      "EditedText": "The internal estimates that were being used by the Scottish Prison Service in September 1999 were 6,700 prisoners by 2003-04. In November 1999, the figure had suddenly changed to 6,000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 419848,
      "EditedText": "I have a few more questions. As the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service, do you have concerns about future overcrowding?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 419850,
      "EditedText": "Will you make representations to the Scottish Executive about those concerns?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419853",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 419853,
      "EditedText": "The position that I have outlined today is not secret. There are risks in the future, just as there are risks in the status quo.The fact is that the prison places that we have closed tended to be those that we found difficult to fill. The overcrowding that has existed in Scottish prisons for many years tends to occur in the high security prisons—Barlinnie, Edinburgh and so on. We have not done anything to that sector. We have gone to great pains not to make a salami slice of cuts across the service. We have concentrated the effects of the cuts. The board took the strategic view that we could either salami slice the entire service—everything would take a percentage cut, which would hit the good, the bad and the indifferent—or we could concentrate the effect by the difficult task of closing establishments, saving whole places, particularly in the open prison estate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 419854,
      "EditedText": "I hope you will take on board the committee's fears about the future of the Prison Service, particularly in relation to creating more civilised conditions in prisons and to rehabilitation programmes. I would like to hear today that you will take our concerns on board. While the redirection of the £13 million may be a good thing, I think it is part of your role to reassure us that the Prison Service as a whole will not suffer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Duffy (Scottish Prison Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 419862,
      "EditedText": "It is based on security category and perceived danger to the public. A risk assessment process is in place. All the time, prisons are identifying people who they see as suitable for open prison. As Mr Cameron said, in recent years there have been vacancies, to the equivalent of one open prison, even at times of gross overcrowding in the rest of the estate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 419864,
      "EditedText": "You have almost understood it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 419868,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 143
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 419874,
      "EditedText": "They are different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 419880,
      "EditedText": "In March."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 542.0,
      "ContributionID": 419882,
      "EditedText": "In September—after the plan was published, in other words."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 550.0,
      "ContributionID": 419886,
      "EditedText": "This is not a matter solely of prison officers. The majority of staff in the SPS are not only prison officers. It is important that we do not forget that three trade unions are recognised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 554.0,
      "ContributionID": 419888,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 566.0,
      "ContributionID": 419894,
      "EditedText": "That is why it is difficult to plan. The best basis for planning is the statisticians' projections. We do not make up the numbers that we might like to see, but take them from the statisticians. Those form the basis for our judgments. Like all forecasts, projections can turn out to be wrong—for all sorts of reasons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 583.0,
      "ContributionID": 419902,
      "EditedText": "Six thousand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419906",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 591.0,
      "ContributionID": 419906,
      "EditedText": "The projections are indeed uncertain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 595.0,
      "ContributionID": 419908,
      "EditedText": "There is no better basis. We could make up the statistics ourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 611.0,
      "ContributionID": 419916,
      "EditedText": "Mike Duffy's team examined all the establishments. The press release that Clive Fairweather issued on the same day as ours said that our rationalisation was good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 643.0,
      "ContributionID": 419932,
      "EditedText": "No."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419933",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 645.0,
      "ContributionID": 419933,
      "EditedText": "Although you accept that those are the only two prisons that have market values next to them in the column covering arguments for closure."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419934",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "ContributionID": 419934,
      "EditedText": "No, they all have market values."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C419938",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 655.0,
      "ContributionID": 419938,
      "EditedText": "They all have market values, but I agree that for the next three, they are not stated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 657.0,
      "ContributionID": 419939,
      "EditedText": "It is interesting that the two that are identified for closure are the two that have market values attached to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 659.0,
      "ContributionID": 419940,
      "EditedText": "That is deliberate, as those are the ones that we are closing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 663.0,
      "ContributionID": 419942,
      "EditedText": "No. The prison will still provide segregated accommodation. We are talking about management, not accommodation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 667.0,
      "ContributionID": 419944,
      "EditedText": "Yes, because rationalisation will allow us to concentrate on a smaller number of sites. As you observed, our decisions do not affect overcrowding in the high-security estate. You are right that by 2003-04, if we have 6,700—that number comes from the statisticians—we will, on the figures of estimated available capacity, be 500 places short. That is equivalent to a medium-sized high-security prison. However, there is time between now and then and we have some spaces on our existing estate. It is not all full, and as I said earlier, we will examine our capital programme and our estate fundamentally to see what we can do. By closing the prisons, we are concentrating our effort on fewer sites. We will not be spreading our effort to the three sites that we will have closed and the one that we will have mothballed. There will be four fewer establishments to manage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 671.0,
      "ContributionID": 419946,
      "EditedText": "Work has been done and continues with that objective in view. The top line of the table, on page 5 of the paper, shows that the estimated available capacity over the six years in the table rises, then stabilises. We must consider that again and try to improve it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 677.0,
      "ContributionID": 419949,
      "EditedText": "The figure stabilises after a fall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 689.0,
      "ContributionID": 419955,
      "EditedText": "I have a feeling that you will be making yet another return appearance, by popular demand. Will those priorities not change between now and the next time that you appear before us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 703.0,
      "ContributionID": 419962,
      "EditedText": "There is a balance to be struck. We need to run a service and there is a contract between the SPS and our staff that involves time off in lieu, which is voluntary in all cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 708.0,
      "ContributionID": 419964,
      "EditedText": "You intend to close prisons and to draft the money towards the drugs enforcement agency, but are you not planning for failure? You do not seem to be making sufficient contingency plans for the success of the drugs enforcement agency in putting more people in prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 712.0,
      "ContributionID": 419966,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that you brought up the question of statisticians. My understanding is that the statisticians have been wrong on several occasions. Why are you basing so many of your plans on evidence which, if it were presented in a court of law, would be found to be not credible? In court, that could result in your being put in prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 714.0,
      "ContributionID": 419967,
      "EditedText": "I do not recognise that analogy. All I can say is that forecasting is a difficult business, which does not mean that one should not make use of it. The forecast is based on the best available evidence. The committee is welcome to choose its own figures, but I do not think that the statisticians are likely to be as wrong as most other folk. That is their job."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 722.0,
      "ContributionID": 419971,
      "EditedText": "I have said that Gordon Jackson will be the last questioner and I am sticking to that, although I can tell that other members still have questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 728.0,
      "ContributionID": 419974,
      "EditedText": "I am asking you what you want. Assuming that we do not want chronic overcrowding—it is dangerous and bad—what do you want from the Executive to address the problem? Do you want a new prison, or more blocks at Saughton and Barlinnie? Do you have a concrete proposal on how to deal with the problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 734.0,
      "ContributionID": 419977,
      "EditedText": "Next year. That is exactly the piece of work that we have decided to get. It is not a quick piece of work, because it requires a close examination of the existing estate, as well as consideration of the option, to which you alluded, of building another prison. In the table on page 5, 500 places are equivalent to another high-security prison or to four or five house blocks on existing sites."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 738.0,
      "ContributionID": 419979,
      "EditedText": "The first people who will receive that piece of work will be the ministers who take decisions and make proposals. They will receive it in the spring."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419986",
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 752.0,
      "ContributionID": 419986,
      "EditedText": "So not many people will retire from the service.In answer to a question that I asked in the chamber about time off in lieu, the Minister for Justice said that around 110,000 hours were outstanding. How easy is it for your members to claim that time or equivalent overtime payments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 758.0,
      "ContributionID": 419989,
      "EditedText": "Overcrowded prisons are an anomaly. We are discussing the need for prisons to lose staff as the numbers of prisoners have dropped. In the past, we have found that there has been no help for the Prison Service when prisoner numbers have gone through the roof. When Barlinnie had 1,500 prisoners, no additional resources were provided. History shows that we cannot predict the number of people who will be imprisoned. We feel that the policy is short-sighted and will have a grave impact on the working conditions of prison staff in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 760.0,
      "ContributionID": 419990,
      "EditedText": "Did the staff feel that there was always a safety net in the form of additional positions in the Scottish Prison Service that had not been taken up, and that that brought them some comfort when things were at their peak?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 763.0,
      "ContributionID": 419991,
      "EditedText": "We went through a bad time in the late 1980s, when there were prison riots. It was difficult for the whole of the Prison Service. Thankfully, the situation has stabilised considerably, but we should not lose sight of the fact that such things can happen at any time in a prison system. If we reduce the number of available places now, we will have very few contingency spaces left, should something happen to the service: we would need to move prisoners, for example, if a hall or an accommodation block is lost someplace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 765.0,
      "ContributionID": 419992,
      "EditedText": "I recognise that my next question will not be too popular, because I will refer to the private prison at Bowhouse, Kilmarnock. Have you any idea of the running costs there? Can you tell us about the differences for staff between serving in the SPS and serving at Kilmarnock? Do you view it as part of a hidden agenda that, if a crisis arises in the future, further private prison facilities might be the option?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 771.0,
      "ContributionID": 419995,
      "EditedText": "Thank you—that was helpful.Mr MacIntyre, the non-executive director of the Scottish Prison Service, emphasised his commitment to the service, which I do not doubt in any way. Would you like to give your opinion on the business approach to making such a major decision in such a short time scale: from 21 October to the announcement last week? That seems a remarkably short time in which to make such a major statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 775.0,
      "ContributionID": 419997,
      "EditedText": "My colleagues and I share some knowledge from 1998, when there appeared to be a major strategic review of the Scottish Prison Service. I am very concerned that, in that review, mention was made of closures and rationalisation of the estate. My understanding is that although the exercise took a short time, we are in fact going back to September 1998 when the prison board was well aware that there might be a need to rationalise the estate. Some of the establishments targeted for closure, including Longriggend and Friarton, were mentioned then. It is not the case with Friarton now, but it was with Penninghame."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 779.0,
      "ContributionID": 419999,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether the prison inspector was aware of that review. We certainly were not. It has just come to light.The trade union side was involved in the working group that discussed the closure of Longriggend. I am sorry that you do not have a copy of the population and accommodation review, but the opening statement in paragraph 1.1 tells us quite clearly that\"A major strategic review of the SPS estate, undertaken in 1998, looked at capacity requirements as well as the optimum means of achieving an end to slopping out, either by hall upgrading or new build prisoner accommodation. One of the important conclusions reached was that it would not be practical to retain Longriggend.\"That is another issue, but I am sure that it is still relevant in today's situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 781.0,
      "ContributionID": 420000,
      "EditedText": "On the strength of what you have heard today from Mr Cameron and his colleagues, are you any clearer about how you will address the concerns of your members?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 783.0,
      "ContributionID": 420001,
      "EditedText": "To be quite honest, no. The staff are devastated. They feel that they have worked very hard over the past four years to achieve the restructuring that has taken place in the Prison Service. That was a tremendously painful process at the start. The staff did not like it, but they were confronted with the choice of going through the staffing structure review or potentially facing market testing. It was Hobson's choice.The staff feel that they have contributed to the service and to the efficiency savings that have been made—to the extent that today we have a £24 million underspend. The staff feel as if they have been deserted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 789.0,
      "ContributionID": 420004,
      "EditedText": "Can you tell me about the stress levels in the Prison Service? Does stress contribute to the amount of sick leave, which then impinges on time off in lieu?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Hogg (Scottish Prison Service Trade Union Side): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 791.0,
      "ContributionID": 420005,
      "EditedText": "Late last year, a survey was carried out on behalf on the trade union. The results were published in January or February this year. I believe that the committee has had access to the figures. I do not know the figures that you are requesting off the top of my head, but if you consult that document, you will find them.It is clear that all trade union members who are in the SPS at the moment felt significant stress. The factors that affect how members feel span everything from environmental conditions such as poor lighting and heating to management intimidation. A range of factors affected the stress that people felt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 799.0,
      "ContributionID": 420009,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to say what contribution that made. I would not want to commit myself on that one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 801.0,
      "ContributionID": 420010,
      "EditedText": "We have heard today that populations in open prisons have generally been less than the prisons' capacity in recent years. At one time, apparently, the population was enough only for two prisons, and yet there were three. Does that evidence coincide with your experience in the past few years? Have you found that open prisons have not been at capacity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 823.0,
      "ContributionID": 420021,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 825.0,
      "ContributionID": 420022,
      "EditedText": "I call Pauline McNeill to ask the next question, followed by Christine Grahame. Trish Marwick and Maureen Macmillan also want to ask questions, so I ask members to keep their questions as brief as possible and witnesses to keep their answers as succinct as possible too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 832.0,
      "ContributionID": 420025,
      "EditedText": "Is it therefore the case that any increase in your salary comes from efficiency savings in the Prison Service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 836.0,
      "ContributionID": 420027,
      "EditedText": "Are there any agreements with management on staffing levels, including levels to ensure that emergencies can be catered for?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 838.0,
      "ContributionID": 420028,
      "EditedText": "We have what we call a line roster. Within an establishment we identify a number of posts that we would expect to be filled at any time. As far as we are concerned, those posts should be filled each day on each shift. Those are minimum staffing levels. There is no provision for additional staff, except in places where untried prisoner numbers exceed a certain number. There was such an arrangement at Barlinnie, although I do not know whether it has fallen by the wayside or whether those extra staff have now been built into the complement. Does that answer your question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 840.0,
      "ContributionID": 420029,
      "EditedText": "It answers it in part. Are those establishment figures agreed with management?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 882.0,
      "ContributionID": 420050,
      "EditedText": "The question of training came to light as a result of the closure at Longriggend. We suggested to management that it carry out a training needs analysis of staff there. We were guaranteed that that would take place, but I doubt whether it has been carried out so far. The present closures will have a more serious impact on the potential to deliver the training needs of the staff. There is a considerable need for additional training for staff who have been at one establishment for long periods of their service. Transferring to a completely different facility is a difficult process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 884.0,
      "ContributionID": 420051,
      "EditedText": "I will take two more points, from Tricia Marwick and Maureen Macmillan. I ask them to be as quick as possible, as I want to finish this by noon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C420058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 898.0,
      "ContributionID": 420058,
      "EditedText": "Everything will be static? Nobody will be looking ahead and thinking, \"In a couple of years' time I can get a promotion\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour (Scottish Landowners Federation): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 419619,
      "EditedText": "My name is Robert Balfour and I am one of the vice-conveners of the Scottish Landowners Federation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 419621,
      "EditedText": "Mr Balfour, would you care to take a couple of minutes to comment briefly on the Scottish Landowners Federation's view of the situation at Carbeth and to respond to the allegations that were made at our meeting of 26 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 419622,
      "EditedText": "The SLF decided to involve itself in the case of the Carbeth hutters when the hutters asked to see us. It is fair to say that they thought that they were taking a big chance when they did that. They came to see us at our office in Leith and put their case, which we listened to and took note of. We then had a meeting with Mr Barns-Graham and one of his solicitors. Having heard both sides of the argument, we concluded that the original commitment that the Barns-Graham family had made—to provide for a social need by allowing the people of Govan to get into the countryside and build holiday accommodation—had been reneged on by the present owner, and that the level of rent and other burdens that he had imposed was unreasonable. For that reason, we decided that we would back the stand of the Carbeth hutters, to the extent that I have become a trustee of the Carbeth Hutters Association."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 419623,
      "EditedText": "Can we be clear: are you saying that it was the Carbeth hutters who first approached the Scottish Landowners Federation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 419624,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 419629,
      "EditedText": "After our meeting with the hutters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 419631,
      "EditedText": "About a year ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 419633,
      "EditedText": "I do not see why. I do not believe that there is a conflict of interests. The objectives are the same: to ensure that the hutters at Carbeth get more security and a fairer lease than they have at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 419639,
      "EditedText": "That is what the paper was designed to show."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 419640,
      "EditedText": "Is that because it is unusual for a service charge to be levied in a rural situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 419644,
      "EditedText": "I beg your pardon?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 419645,
      "EditedText": "I take it that you, as a trustee of the Carbeth Hutters Association, are reasonably familiar with the estate and that you have been out to it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 419647,
      "EditedText": "We took some evidence a few weeks ago on the issue of the service charge. Some new roads had been laid on the estate by Barns-Graham and the Carbeth hutters' view was that the new roads amounted to some rubble and not much else. Can you comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 419648,
      "EditedText": "The roads that were put in were not tarmacked, if that is what you mean. They were tracks that had been upgraded with bottoming and quarry blinding to a standard equivalent to that of a forest access road."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 419650,
      "EditedText": "That is my understanding as well. There have been one or two minor alterations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 419654,
      "EditedText": "Ground leases are becoming far less usual than they were. Since 1974, new leases of domestic dwelling houses or other domestic property are limited in length to 20 years. Therefore, there is that control. Ground leases are still granted for commercial and other purposes but they tend not to be used for domestic property for that reason."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 419659,
      "EditedText": "There are a couple of problems with this situation. One is the basic problem of having what is, for all practical purposes, a heritable structure on land that one does not own—one view is that it is never a very clever thing to do, although from time to time it happens. These huts are not caravans; they are heritable for practical purposes, although the hutters do not own the ground. The second issue concerns the lease, which has no rent value control. The landlord can simply say, \"As from next week, the rent is £1 million a year. If you don't want to pay it, push off.\"I will deal with those points in reverse order.It was suggested to the owner of the land that the rent should be fixed on a more normal basis; that is, for the next three years, the rent would be so much and there would be rent reviews. If rent could not be agreed, an independent arbiter could fix it, which would stop the landlord from deciding unilaterally that the rent would be £1 million a year in order to drive people off the land. However, we were told that could not apply in this case, as there was no comparison available and that, while it is all very well to fix rent for an office in George Street, in the Carbeth situation there is no basis on which an independent arbiter could work.In other words, those who spoke for the landlord claimed to us that the situation was unfixable and that the landlord was the only person who would know what the rent should be, because it is a one-off situation. I thought that that response might be disingenuous, but I would like to know what you think and, if you think that those witnesses were wrong, why."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 419667,
      "EditedText": "I am not thinking so much of the amount of rent charged. I am thinking about giving people security of tenure, once a structure is in place. In other words, if a landlord allows a tenant to put a structure on the land that is as immovable as these huts are, that tenant should have some security of tenure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 419673,
      "EditedText": "Presumably the rent could be balanced against the ish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 419675,
      "EditedText": "The term refers to the departure of the tenant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 419678,
      "EditedText": "It is the opposite of entry.Are there any further questions for these witnesses? Do the witnesses wish to add anything about the issue in general or about specific points that have not been raised?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Balfour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 419681,
      "EditedText": "I do not know, to be quite honest. I cannot give you a straight answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 419682,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. You are free to go, although you may stay and listen to whatever you find of interest in the remainder of the proceedings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 419691,
      "EditedText": "Were the savings evenly spread from across all budget heads?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 419692,
      "EditedText": "No. They were not evenly spread; they were from different years. A large number of years are involved, and it would be incredibly complex and expensive for the taxpayer for us to go back over all those years now and calculate all the differences over the many thousands of things on which the SPS spends money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 419696,
      "EditedText": "That is not the analogy that I would use, but it is in the right direction. We would have spent the money in a cost-effective manner at the appropriate time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419698",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "ContributionID": 419698,
      "EditedText": "On everything that the SPS spends its money on."
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    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "But what does that mean in practice?"
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    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419709",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "What was the extra £13 million going to be spent on?"
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  {
    "ID": "C419710",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "EditedText": "It was not extra. It was part of the SPS's total spending power, and was shown in our accounts accordingly."
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  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419713",
    "Meeting": {
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      "EditedText": "But the £13 million happened to be accrued savings that you had made in the equivalent of a piggy-bank."
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419723",
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      "EditedText": "Is that what you are referring to as advice that job losses would be of the order of 400?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419727",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 419727,
      "EditedText": "Do you accept, Mr Cameron, that the report of HM chief inspector of prisons for Scotland, published in August of this year, was a fairly accurate reflection of circumstances in the Prison Service?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 419729,
      "EditedText": "That being the case, you show figures today which project a rise in the number of prisoners over the next couple of years, but you suggest that the current number is around 6,000."
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419731",
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      "EditedText": "Why, then, when compared with the chief inspector's report, does that represent about a 20 per cent drop in the number of prisoners since August this year?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419733",
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      "ContributionID": 419733,
      "EditedText": "I am not talking about estimates; I am talking about precise figures. Your figure for 1999-2000 is a precise one of 6,000. It should be 6,100 but is actually 6,000. The chief inspector's report suggests that in August 1999, there were 7,025 people in prison."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C419734",
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      "EditedText": "Really? I do not recognise that figure."
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  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419735",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
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      "ContributionID": 419735,
      "EditedText": "Can I refer you to annexe 4 of that report, which shows the average daily prison populations. The total of those figures is 7,025."
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  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419737",
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      "EditedText": "When you are making a major decision, as you have done, on prison numbers and the closure of prisons, surely you should be in the position to give a reasonable, off-the-cuff, answer about why that difference exists."
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  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419741",
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      "EditedText": "That is fine, because you did accept the prison inspector's report."
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 419747,
      "EditedText": "Page ix."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 419755,
      "EditedText": "Presumably the statisticians have got the forecasting right and know better than the facts presented in the chief inspector's report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 419760,
      "EditedText": "I do not see the question to which you refer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 419762,
      "EditedText": "No, and nor do I agree that there was any inconsistency or that we have changed our view. The second last question read:\"Does this mean we will face overcrowding in our prisons in a few years time?\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 419765,
      "EditedText": "You do not agree that there is any difference?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 419775,
      "EditedText": "The final point is the key one. As I said in my answer to a question from the convener, we might well have taken a similar route anyway, but over a rather longer time scale. You are correct: speed is the reason why we set in hand an immediate review. The result is the internal document that I have made available to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 419777,
      "EditedText": "We have no plans at present for another new prison, private or otherwise. Circumstances may change, but that is the current position of the board. No options are without risk; the status quo is not without risk. What we did, as I think that the report I have made available to the committee demonstrates, was to take a careful look at the whole of our estate. We have reduced the capacity—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 419785,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 419786,
      "EditedText": "At your meeting with us in September, which I appreciate was only about 14 days after you took up your post, you told us why work had not been carried out at Low Moss. One  reason why Low Moss was in such a dreadful state was that the priority for the Prison Service—and bear in mind that this was in September—had been to end slopping out by 2004-05. As a result of that cut, a priority for the Prison Service in September is no longer the priority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 419787,
      "EditedText": "No, it is not the priority. I recall that well. Low Moss is a site that we regard as unsatisfactory, but it does have night sanitation. The board would have liked to close Low Moss, but the site is very useful. Some of the buildings on it are not very good and we are making some improvements. We have a tension: we would like to do something at Low Moss and we would also like to end slopping out. However, we may have increased prisoner numbers, which would need to be faced. Any business needs to look at the options available to it.What I said to the committee in my letter is that we propose to have a fundamental look at our estate strategy, taking into account the pressures upon us and the resources that we have. We will do that and make some decisions some time next year, probably in the spring."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 419793,
      "EditedText": "No, the question was contingent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 419794,
      "EditedText": "I was quite clear on what I was leading to. You accrued £13 million. You suggested to us in September that no work was done at Low Moss because the night sanitation programme had priority. You were sitting with £13 million, which you had not spent on Low Moss. Completion of the night sanitation programme by 2004-05 is no longer a priority. Everything that you told this committee in September has been turned on its head. Do you accept that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 419803,
      "EditedText": "If £13 million out of our total resources had been added to the capital programme, you are right. If you postulate that, instead of having a capital programme of almost £20 million, we had a capital programme of £25 million over two years, we could make a big difference. That would mean that that money was not available to spend on current expenditure, 80 per cent of which is on salaries. As I said, the £13 million is best regarded as a contribution to all the money that the SPS spends. For example, we could have refused our staff a pay increase this year, next year, or the year after, but that is not what we would wish to do. We could have cut the numbers of staff by more. You are right that all sorts of options would have been open to us, and are still open to us, to reduce the number of staff by a greater number than we think is sensible, to provide more capital expenditure. If you are suggesting that I should cut the salary budget to provide more capital, we will consider that, but we have not regarded it as a sensible option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 419806,
      "EditedText": "I am not making any sort of suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 419817,
      "EditedText": "Every part of the public sector—and, indeed, the private sector—is required to conduct a rigorous continuous search for efficiency improvements. The budgets of departments are set on the assumption that such improvements can be gained. For example, no pay rises are allowed for in the budgeting process. Pay rises must be generated by efficiency savings by the Prison Service and other agencies. That creates a spur to achieve greater efficiency. We will continue to search for efficiency savings. We are, of course, in competition at the margin. The taxpayer has a perfect right to expect every pound of taxation to be stretched as far as they would stretch their own spending."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 419818,
      "EditedText": "I realise that, obviously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419824",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 419824,
      "EditedText": "Will the savings from the proposed closure of the two prisons be in addition to the efficiency savings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 419826,
      "EditedText": "And that will result in further savings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 419835,
      "EditedText": "We do not make those estimates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 419838,
      "EditedText": "What is the strategic steer for prison governors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 419843,
      "EditedText": "No, the figure is still 6,700, as is shown on page five of the paper in front of you. We have not changed the numbers. We expect to have 6,000 prisoners in this financial year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 419845,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8642746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 419849,
      "EditedText": "Of course I would be concerned if overcrowding were to reach high levels. Very high prisoner numbers would inhibit prisoner programmes and the good work of my staff in preparing prisoners for release and in addressing their offending behaviour. That work would be jeopardised by very high prisoner numbers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 419851,
      "EditedText": "As members know, the relationship between ministers and their civil servants is a matter for them. I am not at liberty to divulge that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alastair MacIntyre (Scottish Prison Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 419855,
      "EditedText": "I am a businessman and a non-executive director of the Prison Service. I am struck by the tremendous commitment, hard work and quality of the staff at all levels in the Prison Service compared with my experience of the business world. In the rigorous process of deciding what our programme would be, consistent concerns have been expressed by the members of the board about the impact of the changes on staff, on training and development and on taking the service forward. Speaking personally, I came into the Prison Service because I believe in it and I want to make a contribution. As a Scotsman I am as concerned as you are as MSPs about slopping out and if there was anything I wanted to see achieved faster it was ending that medieval—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 419856,
      "EditedText": "It was?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 419859,
      "EditedText": "There are three open prisons. Over the past few years, try as we might, we have had enough prisoners to fill only two of them, so if we have to make reductions that seems the best place to do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 419860,
      "EditedText": "Why is it difficult to fill them? Who determines that? Do prisoners have a choice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 419861,
      "EditedText": "They do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 419866,
      "EditedText": "The money would have been spent on all the things that you mentioned, as well as others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 419872,
      "EditedText": "What page are you talking about now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 419876,
      "EditedText": "Not in two months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 419878,
      "EditedText": "That is when it was published. It is based on figures that were produced considerably earlier than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "ContributionID": 419892,
      "EditedText": "That is possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419903",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 585.0,
      "ContributionID": 419903,
      "EditedText": "But you have conceded that the numbers will increase to 6,700."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ContributionID": 419912,
      "EditedText": "We will."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 623.0,
      "ContributionID": 419922,
      "EditedText": "If you look at annexe A of the paper before you, you will see that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 627.0,
      "ContributionID": 419924,
      "EditedText": "They are in annexe A."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 631.0,
      "ContributionID": 419926,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned Clive Fairweather's report, which is a good report overall and says some useful things. In his press statement on 16 November, he said of Penninghame:\"This open prison has served a very useful purpose in the past in preparing long term prisoners for release into the community . . . Nevertheless it is in a very isolated location, especially for family contact. One of the other open prisons in Scotland, at Noranside, near Dundee, is under capacity (indeed we criticised it for that last year). It seems sensible to rationalise here.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 635.0,
      "ContributionID": 419928,
      "EditedText": "It was not always thus, as you will remember. The local community has had mixed views over the years about the prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 639.0,
      "ContributionID": 419930,
      "EditedText": "No."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 649.0,
      "ContributionID": 419935,
      "EditedText": "I was unaware of that. We will examine that in greater detail."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 665.0,
      "ContributionID": 419943,
      "EditedText": "On the capacity issue, which the convener and others have touched on, you project that by 2003-04 the number of people in prison should total about 6,700, which will leave a shortfall of about 500 places. I am aware that different prisons have different categories of prisoner and that the categories do not always correspond to the number of places required. Should we consider rationalising our prison accommodation when the figures are due to increase and will lead to increased overcrowding? Presumably, that will accumulate year on year if we have a shortfall of places."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 673.0,
      "ContributionID": 419947,
      "EditedText": "I read the table as saying that the estimated available capacity will increase, then fall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419950",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 679.0,
      "ContributionID": 419950,
      "EditedText": "And after the rise."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419952",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 683.0,
      "ContributionID": 419952,
      "EditedText": "Okay, but the figure stabilises over the last four years of the table."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419953",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 685.0,
      "ContributionID": 419953,
      "EditedText": "For the record, and for the education of your staff, can you tell us what the Prison Service's priorities will be, bearing it in mind that they change from month to month?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419954",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 687.0,
      "ContributionID": 419954,
      "EditedText": "Custody, good order, care and opportunity."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
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      "EditedText": "No."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 697.0,
      "ContributionID": 419959,
      "EditedText": "Give us the balance. Who owes whom?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
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      "EditedText": "On the evidence that we have heard so far, that would appear to be questionable."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419970",
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 720.0,
      "ContributionID": 419970,
      "EditedText": "Indeed, 20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing; we are always smart after the event."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 724.0,
      "ContributionID": 419972,
      "EditedText": "Let us say that you are right. I can tell that you are surprised by that comment. However, suppose that you are right and it is appropriate to make cuts and to rationalise and that Clive Fairweather is also right and that what you are doing is a good thing. Mr Fairweather concentrates on the problem that would arise if the prison population increased. That is my concern, too. He says: \"Provided numbers remain at roughly present levels for the foreseeable future . . . I would think that these closures are not only manageable, but are to be welcomed.\"I can live with that. However, he wonders what would happen if numbers did not stay at that level and whether your projection of 6,700 is accurate. If I may say so, I find you a little woolly in telling us how you intend to deal with that. I am not as concerned about why you are making the cuts and why, with current numbers, that is manageable—I can be convinced on that—but what do you propose to do if the number of prisoners goes up to 6,700? Rather than saying that the solution is that you will look at the figures and consider the matter, what do you think specifically, and in—perhaps literally—concrete terms, should be done about it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8799028+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tony Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 730.0,
      "ContributionID": 419975,
      "EditedText": "That is precisely why the board took the decision, which I have described as one of its most important decisions—if not its most important decision—to produce a set of options."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner (Scottish Prison Officers Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 742.0,
      "ContributionID": 419981,
      "EditedText": "We were confused when we read Mr Wallace's comments in the press, because the minute did not indicate that there would be job losses. We believed that too many staff had been recruited but that the situation would be remedied through natural wastage.In the period from March to now, an extra 123 prison staff have been recruited, which seems strange in light of the minister's statement. We have difficulty understanding such contradictions: how can the financial planning of the organisation allow staff to be recruited at a time when we have been told that staff must be shed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 746.0,
      "ContributionID": 419983,
      "EditedText": "The figures that we have been given show that natural wastage runs at about 138 a year. We can be sceptical of that figure as, on top of natural wastage, people will leave to get other jobs and others will retire. There are difficulties with the figure as it is hard for the statisticians to work out exactly how many will leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 754.0,
      "ContributionID": 419987,
      "EditedText": "There are no overtime payments in the prison system, although ex gratia payments are sometimes made for additional attendance.The number of hours of time off in lieu that were outstanding in August was 101,208. That rose to 101,643 in October. Staff owe the service 27,500 hours.The difficulty with a system of time off in lieu is that not everybody works it. It is a personal choice: some people work more time because they want the staffing level to be maintained. Such people accrue more than 500 hours. That makes it difficult to break the figures down into an average. It is difficult for staff to claim their hours. Posts have to be covered and there is a lot of pressure to meet targets that have been set."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Melrose (Scottish Prison Service Trade Union Side): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 769.0,
      "ContributionID": 419994,
      "EditedText": "I believe that the option to put in place additional spaces is part of the contract for Bowhouse. I understand that the number of spaces there is around 192. If we take the scenario that the present public sector accommodation becomes overcrowded, it would seem to me that the private sector could then be used for additional spaces—which are available at Bowhouse. My understanding is that there will be a doubling up process: if a prisoner is in a single cell, he will have a partner shortly. It is those 192 extra spaces that are available through the contract for Bowhouse, and they may be used should the overcrowding in the public sector increase."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 777.0,
      "ContributionID": 419998,
      "EditedText": "Longriggend and Low Moss were thought to be ripe for closure, but that did not come across to me in the most recent inspector's report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 785.0,
      "ContributionID": 420002,
      "EditedText": "Would you paraphrase that by saying, \"The staff have been ill done by\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 787.0,
      "ContributionID": 420003,
      "EditedText": "Certainly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C420006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 793.0,
      "ContributionID": 420006,
      "EditedText": "Mr Cameron said that prisoners have a choice of establishment in which to serve their sentence. Is that your impression? Or are they directed to specific places that are determined by the way in which they have been categorised? In that case, they would not be able to pick the prison that was closest to their home and was therefore convenient for their family to visit. There would be no choice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 795.0,
      "ContributionID": 420007,
      "EditedText": "Within the system, prisoners are allocated a certain category. Most of the prisons also have categories. There is a security algorithm that comes out with the final categories. A problem that we have had is that it is not always possible to get categories of prisoner into the category of prison that is required.I could not talk with authority on how prisoners are allocated a place, but I believe that they are asked for their first, second and third choices. They do not always get their first choice. One of the problems of the allocation system in the early days was that we gave prisoners the hope that they would be able to choose which prison they went to. That turned out to be unrealistic because of the estate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 805.0,
      "ContributionID": 420012,
      "EditedText": "I understand the value and the difficulties of open prisons, but I am anxious to focus on this question: is there overcapacity in the open prisons? There may be three although only two are needed. Does that accord with your experience, or do you feel that we still need three open prisons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C420019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 819.0,
      "ContributionID": 420019,
      "EditedText": "I want to conclude this. In addition to the complications of remoteness at Penninghame, where staff have settled, there will be other difficulties for staff who want to be redeployed because they need special training to be able to move to another prison. Is that what you are saying?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 821.0,
      "ContributionID": 420020,
      "EditedText": "That may well be the case, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 828.0,
      "ContributionID": 420023,
      "EditedText": "I have three questions, the first of which concerns pay increases. During your negotiations with management, is it clear where your pay increases are funded from?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C420024",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Hogg: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 830.0,
      "ContributionID": 420024,
      "EditedText": "It is fairly clear that, in line with Government policy, they are generated from the efficiency savings that the service makes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 842.0,
      "ContributionID": 420030,
      "EditedText": "The staffing complement should be agreed with management locally and signed off nationally. That was the original agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C420031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 844.0,
      "ContributionID": 420031,
      "EditedText": "Given the proposals for closures and job losses, will it be more difficult to achieve a drug-free environment in the Prison Service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 850.0,
      "ContributionID": 420034,
      "EditedText": "No. We can only speculate on the fact that we occasionally run close to short-staffed in some establishments. We really do not have a clue how it was accumulated, over what period of time it was accrued, what the end-year flexibilities were, or how much was carried over each year. We therefore have no evidence to give the committee about the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 858.0,
      "ContributionID": 420038,
      "EditedText": "We have not asked them specifically. We have spoken about it, but it has been a rollercoaster ride between the announcement being made and the position we are now in, trying to deal with the situation. In that interim period, it has been difficult to deal with pay negotiations, the closure of Longriggend and various other events."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Hogg: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 866.0,
      "ContributionID": 420042,
      "EditedText": "That is a very serious concern. The committee has raised the matter and the estimate of 6,700 prisoners in 2004 has been mentioned. I think that that estimate has been underplayed. In determining the population estimates—I am no statistician—we should look at the Scottish Office statistical bulletin, which deals with the prison statistics in the Scottish criminal justice system. The statistics in the bulletin—I think that I have the most recent edition—indicate that between 1988 and 1997 total prisoner numbers have increased by 16 per cent. If that increase were to be repeated in the next 10 years, we could not begin to cope, but we are now reducing capacity by 416 places."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 878.0,
      "ContributionID": 420048,
      "EditedText": "I understand the need for the Prison Service to tell staff sooner rather than later what is happening to them, but people have to be given full information. I have been phoned by people who were transferred to Dungavel four weeks ago. They have moved house and changed their kids' schools, and now they face an uncertain future. People who have been transferred to Penninghame in the past year, and have moved their families down to that area, also face uncertainty. We have been invited to join a human resource management committee to deal with the closures. We have had one meeting so far and we hope to get involved to influence matters and to assist in informing the staff about what is happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C420054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 890.0,
      "ContributionID": 420054,
      "EditedText": "I have just one other point, concerning the action team that was formed. I understand that, originally, you decided to take no part in that action team, as you did not want simply to implement the cuts and job losses. However, you are now taking part in the action team. What is your role in it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C420056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 894.0,
      "ContributionID": 420056,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to ask about training, career progression and redeployment, but that has more or less been covered. When you gave evidence to us before, you talked about the lack of career progression. I presume that you feel that what is happening now is making that even worse. People cannot enter the service—if they get the chance to enter the service over the next couple of years—and feel that they have a worthwhile career in front of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Derek Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 896.0,
      "ContributionID": 420057,
      "EditedText": "To address the problem of surplus staff, establishments have put a block on all promotion and lateral transfers. The staff who are in danger of losing their position within the establishment must be managed. To manage that situation, a promotion bar has been established—not completely, as for specialist posts there may be some promotion—to ensure that people who are displaced can find a job within the system. Those who want packages can take the packages and leave. We are told that there will be a freeze in recruitment at the same time, so few people will enter the service except in specialist roles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8955287+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C420061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 904.0,
      "ContributionID": 420061,
      "EditedText": "I thank the three of you for attending and answering our questions. We have run considerably over the time that had been unofficially allocated for this item. Despite the fact that this is a matter of some controversy, I advise you that we have invited representatives of another organisation in the Prison Service to give evidence to us on a separate occasion because, as I understand it, they represent a large number of prison staff in Dungavel and Penninghame. As those are the two prisons that are marked for closure, we felt that it would be inappropriate not to give them the opportunity to speak. This is an item to which the committee will return. We will need to come to a decision about further potential witnesses.Thank you for coming along this morning and I am sorry that you had to wait so long. I apologise to all the witnesses that this meeting has gone on considerably longer than they were initially advised it would. The nature of this kind of procedure is that it takes on a life of its own, no matter how the convener may try to corral individuals.Thank you very much, everybody. We now move into private session, to discuss a number of agenda items. I ask everybody in the galleries to leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C420062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 907.0,
      "ContributionID": 420062,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 12:58."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.9267726+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 589.0,
      "ContributionID": 419905,
      "EditedText": "In your evidence to the committee on 14 September, you said:\"The capacity of the system, a subject on which Clive Fairweather and his team spoke, is 6,650 prisoners. Overcrowding has been reduced, although the problem has not been solved completely. Overcrowding depends on prisoner numbers, which is not something that the service is able to anticipate. We have to receive all those who are referred to us. However, easing of overcrowding will enable the estate to be improved.\"—Official Report, Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 September 1999; c 146.I am concerned at that disclaimer about the reliability of projections for the prison population."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 601.0,
      "ContributionID": 419911,
      "EditedText": "We will, won't we?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 605.0,
      "ContributionID": 419913,
      "EditedText": "You said that the report of the chief inspector of prisons was fair. On Dungavel prison, he said:\"In conclusion we recognise that there has been a remarkable transformation at Dungavel, partly due to changes in management, efforts by staff and finally, some much needed clarity about the establishment's future. Whilst a drug sub-culture previously flourished in an environment recognised to be boring, we sense that it should now be possible to create a drug-free establishment. Drugs and other key issues are now being addressed in a structured, cohesive and realistic way, by a closely knit and enthusiastic management team.\"That prison certainly sounds like a good candidate for closure. Do you accept that the report was fair?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 617.0,
      "ContributionID": 419919,
      "EditedText": "You said that the report was good. Why have you targeted a prison that seems to be going in the right direction? What were the criteria for that decision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 629.0,
      "ContributionID": 419925,
      "EditedText": "I have to say that it surprises me that those two prisons are earmarked for closure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 419871,
      "EditedText": "Further down, under goal 3, you refer to \"ending slopping out\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 419881,
      "EditedText": "When were the current figures produced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 848.0,
      "ContributionID": 420033,
      "EditedText": "I have four questions. The first concerns funding. Do you know how the £24 million was accumulated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 856.0,
      "ContributionID": 420037,
      "EditedText": "Have you asked the management to provide you with details of how the £24 million was accumulated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 868.0,
      "ContributionID": 420043,
      "EditedText": "I wish to raise a more political point. Mr Turner said that\"the private prison at Kilmarnock was established and staff regard it as a potential threat for the future. Staff are worried because the private prison has a 30-year contract and has to be guaranteed the number of places that the taxpayer is paying for. If job losses occur in the Prison Service because prisoner numbers continue to fall, the staff's perception is that the losses will take place in the public sector\" —Official Report, Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 September 1999; c 135-36.Is that what we are seeing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C420045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11216,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 11216,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 872.0,
      "ContributionID": 420045,
      "EditedText": "On overcrowding, I have something before me that says that there is evidence that increased orders for bunk beds are being put through the system. It appears that prisoners will double up in rooms and that there will be multiple occupancy in rooms. Are you aware of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 419632,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that there is a conflict of interest here? You say that you are taking a dispassionate and objective view, but you are a trustee. There must a conflict there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2387
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11215,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11215,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 419634,
      "EditedText": "Have you considered the ramifications for other hutters in Scotland if a special case is made of the Carbeth hutters in legislation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 23 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 6003,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6003,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Hugh Henry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 232842,
      "EditedText": "I convene the meeting now that Margo MacDonald has arrived. We were waiting for you, Margo.I have apologies from Ben Wallace. David Mundell and Tavish Scott will be slightly late."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Colwell (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 232846,
      "EditedText": "We will take questions during the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 232848,
      "EditedText": "Do you want all that answered at one meeting, Bruce?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Colwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 232852,
      "EditedText": "In addition to lodging a response to the questionnaire, COSLA sent a copy of our European and international affairs work plan priorities for 1999-2000. There was extensive consultation on that document with officers and politicians of the 32 councils. That may reinforce what Councillor May has said about why more councils have not responded. That is a point that we wish to raise with our council members directly as well as encouraging individual responses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 232854,
      "EditedText": "A number of Bruce's questions are still outstanding. On the question of the response from the councils, we should bear in mind that if every local authority in Scotland wanted to engage with us directly, we would find it hard to cope. It is useful to have COSLA to co-ordinate the response of Scottish local authorities and it gives a clear Scottish line that most, if not all, local authorities sign up to. I would not want to encourage anything that would detract from that; it is to everyone's benefit to have thorough debate in COSLA."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 232855,
      "EditedText": "European issues often permeate councils through service committees, and frequently you find European matters being dealt with in varying ways. Of greatest importance is that local authorities play their part in developing the programmes that broaden local knowledge of European funding, institutions and opportunities.I referred earlier to the work that COSLA has done on the structural and social funds and in developing partnerships on those. That is an area where it is more difficult to pull out responses to specific questions put in the committee's paper, but is, none the less, a very important part of the work of all Scottish local authorities. In terms of representing the collective Scottish view in Brussels, my experience of local authorities across the political spectrum is that they feel that they can all sign up to the COSLA position, once agreed, and they feel that their broad interests are represented by it.On Mr Crawford's question on enlargement and the euro, again there are specific things that COSLA has done and can continue to do. It has perhaps not done as much yet on enlargement as remains to be done. When Irene Oldfather was in local government, she did a significant amount of work on the euro, producing a handbook and convening a number of seminars on it that formed the basis of many local authorities' work with their economic development partners, to give information to businesses.It is through that kind of work, beginning in a policy paper at COSLA and going on to work in individual authorities, that we can broaden and deepen the interest. This committee and the Scottish Parliament can usefully sign up to the partnership that existed before the Parliament with our political colleagues in the UK and across Europe. Dissemination of information, sharing of good practice and bringing the European ideals to bear on day-to-day policy planning underline how important membership of the European Union is to the Scottish economy, the Scottish way of life and the future development of Scotland.I referred to the work that COSLA has already done on the euro. We have received a number of presentations from the Treasury on where the national information campaign and the national changeover plan are headed. Those presentations were very useful, and the information from them has gone out to local authorities. The Parliament might want to liaise formally with COSLA and local government on preparation for the euro. That would mean that when you have set your priorities—not just on the euro, but on other things—we will go forward with a work programme that involves us all pulling in the same direction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 232859,
      "EditedText": "No, I was referring to the question that you had already asked. You are not getting a second bite of the cherry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 232860,
      "EditedText": "I asked another question because I could see that I was not going to get an answer to my first one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 232862,
      "EditedText": "Can I come?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 232863,
      "EditedText": "We would be delighted to see you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 6004,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Colwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 232866,
      "EditedText": "At present, local authorities in the east and west of Scotland and in the Highlands and Islands are directly involved in the regional programme partnerships, which both develop the strategies that will be implemented up to the end of this year and have a say in deciding which projects should be funded. The partnerships include local enterprise companies, colleges, universities, the voluntary sector and so on.In a press release of 12 October, Mr McConnell announced that in the next phase of programming, starting in January 2000, the programme monitoring committee—the strategic body of the partnerships—would be opened up to elected members. The Executive has started a process of consultation about how that should be implemented. Like you, we are formulating ideas about how we would like the new system to operate, while retaining the essential principle of the programmes—partnership between different sectors—and ensuring that the projects are directly relevant both to the programme and to the needs of the area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 232867,
      "EditedText": "Would not some of your councillor colleagues feel annoyed about members of the Scottish Parliament becoming members of the Committee of the Regions, given that a separate body, consisting of representatives of devolved parliaments and legislative assemblies in member states of the European Union, is likely to be established? That would mean that it would be possible for members of this Parliament to be members of two European bodies, whereas councillors could be members only of one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 232869,
      "EditedText": "Historically, the UK has been the sole country with only local government representation on the Committee of the Regions, as every other country has both regional and local government representation. It would be helpful for this committee if we could obtain a glossary of all the relevant bodies in Scotland, the UK and Europe, with a description of what they do and how we might influence them. We could use that as a starting point for a future discussion and for an examination of some of the local bodies that make decisions about funding, such as those that Dennis Canavan spoke about. We will also want to take the opportunity to have a discussion on the future composition and role of the steering committee headed by Lex Gold. I do not know whether we can have that discussion at the next meeting, but we will try to get some input on that process at a future meeting, Dennis. The clerk has a note of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6004,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 232870,
      "EditedText": "Dennis Canavan raised two interesting points, one of which was on the work of the programme monitoring committees and the partnerships. We must be clear that this is likely to be the last time that we receive European funding at the present level; the outcomes of what we do with that funding must be tangible, accountable and measurable. It is important that the Scottish Parliament sets out its key policy areas early as that will enable us to be absolutely clear that the programmes that are to be put in place are in line with the priorities of this Parliament and the UK Government, so that we get the maximum value from all the public resources.On the second point, we should become members of those organisations across Europe that assist elected Governments, at whatever level, in the achievement of their objectives. The Assembly of the European Regions can be a useful body as long as its priorities and objectives agree with one's own priorities and objectives, which also applies to the North Sea Commission, the Committee of the Regions and the new organisation that Dennis spoke of. I see nothing wrong with multiple memberships of these organisations, as long as we benefit from them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 232871,
      "EditedText": "It will be useful for us to increase our monitoring role in the work of the programme management committees. We will need to build that into our work load."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 6004,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 232874,
      "EditedText": "Let us move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6004,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 232876,
      "EditedText": "I entirely take on board Irene's point about the work that has been done on the euro. In areas where we are trying to get a common Scottish position, within a UK position, the question is not which body should take the lead, but what we can do at our level to take forward the agenda. It is important that we have co-operation across levels of government and between officers within the various organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 232877,
      "EditedText": "I am impressed by the paper and the work that is being done in co-operation. I have always found COSLA a bit of a mystery, because I was only once invited to anything that it organised, despite my long political career—maybe that is because I am not acceptable politically. That is why I asked whether we could all go to COSLA's next conference on Europe.On the Committee of the Regions, I will make a parallel and avoid nice phrases such as \"taking forward together\". When I first joined the European Parliament, members were all nominated—we were elected as members of parliaments but nominated to the European Parliament. I was part of the successful movement for direct elections to the European Parliament. I was president of the European Free Alliance, which contained members from 17 democratic parties from all parts of Europe. We fought hard for the Committee of the Regions, but realised that people might want it to contain an outstanding person who had been elected to local government—that person would be nominated to the committee. Do you foresee that the committee will be directly elected? I was on the Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs, which I found difficult as I am not an economist. We struggled to come to a view on the euro. I find it strange that COSLA does not have a view, but just uses phrases like \"go forward together\", \"co-operate\", \"discuss\". Have you no view on whether the euro is a good thing or a bad thing? There is too much political speech and not enough clarity. COSLA should take a view, as it consists of elected politicians. Is it trying to please the Government, which has a muddled view? At least that muddled view is better than the Opposition's—the Conservatives seem to have closed the door to the euro. My final question—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6004,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 232880,
      "EditedText": "Direct elections to the Committee of the Regions may come. The Committee of the Regions is in its second mandate and is only now beginning to clarify its direction and work programme and to establish itself on a basis of agreed cross-party political priorities. That is a great advance on the first mandate. As with all things, there will be evolution. There may be direct elections, but that may be in the context of the process of establishing regional chambers across the rest of the United Kingdom. We will need to consider how the representation is gathered.Winnie Ewing asks why COSLA does not take a view on the euro. Entry into the euro is a matter for the Government of the day—it must decide when the economic criteria are right. If local government takes a party political view, I am not sure that that will advance the debate. Within my region, there is a divergence of opinion among small and large employers and manufacturers about whether entry to the euro would be a good thing. Most of them agree that what the Government is doing, in setting out the changeover framework, is an acceptable way of planning. They also agree that we should not go in when the economic conditions are wrong, as happened when we joined the exchange rate mechanism. I have not heard many businesses—and they will be the ones most directly affected—saying that the Government approach is wrong for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6004,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 232881,
      "EditedText": "What about fish exporters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 232884,
      "EditedText": "COSLA will work with the Executive to establish the vision that it wants to see at the end of the process. It is important that jobs are sustainable. Not only must jobs be created, but potential employees must be trained and given the skills to take those jobs. Employers need to be encouraged—or legislation needs to oblige them—to train their employees and to make training and lifelong learning an on-going part of their business development.In those areas that have transitional funding—areas that have now fallen out of objective 2 status, for example—we understand that we are more likely to get infrastructure capital programme support. Those are the areas in which we must concentrate our efforts in using infrastructure support; we must use the support given for the other areas for non-infrastructure matters and capacity building."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 232885,
      "EditedText": "What is the optimum means by which that process can be influenced? That is what Dennis Canavan was getting at. How can the Scottish Parliament and COSLA develop those strategic objectives at a local level?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jon Jordan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 232886,
      "EditedText": "The European Commission wants much more local and regional involvement in the next series of national employment action plans. We must work closely with the Commission to ensure that that happens. At a European level, we can join the CEMR campaign \"Act locally for employment\", which promotes local and regional action. One of the major initiatives is to show the flexibility of working at local and regional level. The UK labour market is not unified; we have regional and local labour markets. If we are to be successful, our policies must be tailored to those local and regional variations. We need to give strong examples of where action at local and regional level has been extremely effective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jon Jordan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 232888,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Euro Forum, which has private and public sector partners—including Scottish Enterprise, the LECs, COSLA and the Confederation of British Industry business forums—has been very successful. Businesses can get in touch with the Scottish Euro Forum via a freephone line to get specialist advice on working in euros.I find that the relationship with LECs differs from local authority to local authority. In some cases, the local authority works closely with the LECs, but the LECs take the lead on euro issues. In others, the local authority has a group of clients and the LEC has another group of clients, but both sides work together closely on trade development centres. There is great local variation in how economic development services are organised in Scotland, but the important thing is to put out the euro forum information through economic development services and the LECs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 232891,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Council Development and Industry is doing a significant amount of work to gather information on business preparedness for the euro and to give information back to business. SCDI has produced some very useful documentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 232894,
      "EditedText": "That is a good note on which to finish this item. In some of our early meetings—and this will apply when we come to discuss our future work programme—we have been keen to ensure that our relationship with Europe is seen not only in terms of the money that we receive from the structural funds programme, but in terms of the broader European agenda that we can engage in, be influenced by and learn from. Councillor May makes a good point. On behalf of the committee, I thank Councillor May and her colleagues from COSLA for coming along. I expect that this will not be the last time that we hear from you. I hope that, as we develop our future work programme, we can engage with you as one of the important partners in Scottish civic life. Thank you once again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 232901,
      "EditedText": "The timetable, which has to cover a fairly wide range of issues, seems to be rather truncated. Should we not perhaps be considering a two-year timetable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 232902,
      "EditedText": "We can bear that in mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 232905,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Irene Oldfather and Cathy Jamieson. If we are to do justice to the suggested programme of issues in only six months, we should pick out perhaps three or four topics rather than eight or nine—even three or four might be ambitious.Section 2 of the paper deals with the three-strand approach. The first is scrutiny. We have to scrutinise; that is part of our duty under standing orders. The second strand is headed \"Consultation\", but I am not sure that that is the best word for what is meant. Are we not talking about interaction with the Executive? Halfway down page 2 of the paper, consultation is used in a different context. The paper says that strand 3 will\"most benefit from the consultation exercise\".Moreover, section 4 is entitled, \"Consultation Exercise: Update and Next Steps\". I suspect that whoever drafted the paper used the word consultation in a different sense from the one used to describe strand 2. A better title for strand 2 would be \"Relationships with the Executive\" or \"Interaction with the Executive\".Page 3 shows a matrix or grid containing six topics, but some issues seem to be missing. I am thinking of human rights and international development, although they might come under the title \"Third Sector\", as many voluntary organisations are concerned with those issues. Those are important topics, which I referred to in my letter—the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities submission also mentioned them. Between now and Christmas, we must prioritise what we will do, as it will be far too ambitious to pick eight or nine topics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 232906,
      "EditedText": "We will make those decisions at the next meeting. Today we have the opportunity to suggest any topics that we think have been left out and should be included in the final draft. Dennis Canavan's suggestion that we should reword the paragraph headed \"Consultation\" is well made. We will try to do that in the final draft.There is a difficulty with human rights matters. I am advised that issues relating to the European Court of Human Rights are outwith the committee's remit. I think that we will find ways from time to time in which to consider some of those issues, but we will need to think about that carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 232908,
      "EditedText": "That would depend on what the issues were. The standing orders state:\"The remit of the committee is to consider and report on—proposals for European Communities legislation;the implementation of European Communities legislation; andany European Communities or European Union issue.\"Where something is an issue for the European Communities or the European Union, we can consider it, but if it is something for the European Court of Human Rights or the Council of Europe, we cannot. I would hazard a guess that most of the issues that they address will also be for the European Communities or the European Union, and that would be the way we would look at it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 232912,
      "EditedText": "I have written to the convener about structural funds and additionality, asking for a joint discussion between the Finance Committee and the European Committee. All I want to say at this stage is that I would like to hold that idea in reserve, depending on whether it will be an area of work for this committee. On page 2, under \"Scrutiny\", the paper refers to \"the forward intelligence network in Brussels and a close working relationship\".Forward intelligence is the key to influencing EU legislation, rather than the reactive process that seems to be suggested. The paper also states on page 2:\"the first two strands of the committee's general strategy and workload are in a sense set by others and the committee will fit into the debate as appropriate.\"Is there not a case for us setting the agenda ourselves?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 232913,
      "EditedText": "I know what you are saying on the broader suggested programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 232916,
      "EditedText": "The first unnumbered paragraph on page 2 of the paper states:\t\"the committee will fit into the debate\"—which seems to suggest that we are allowing others to set the agenda for us. The committee should set the agenda for itself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 232917,
      "EditedText": "We will consider whether there is another way of wording that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 232918,
      "EditedText": "On the \"Suggested Programme of Issues\"—that is, our work load—and paragraph 5.1, \"Enlargement of the EU and the challenges facing Scotland\", I am a bit worried about the institutional implications of enlargement for Scotland and, in particular, about the reduction in the number of MEPs. Scotland has a small number of MEPs compared with other small European countries; we might wish to consider that. On paragraph 5.2, \"The role for, and potential impacts of, a single currency in Scotland\", there is no mention of Scottish banknotes and the euro. The Committee of Scottish Clearing Bankers is lobbying for the right to produce Scottish euros—should not we be considering that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 232920,
      "EditedText": "Will the suggestions not debar consideration of further issues at a later date?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 232921,
      "EditedText": "No, they are not prescriptive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 232922,
      "EditedText": "For the next six months, can we take on a big, specific topic, such as what is happening to the European Union? The last part of COSLA's submission said that enlargement would change fundamentally the very nature of the Union. We should consider what we mean by  enlargement, as it is a big responsibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 232925,
      "EditedText": "We will discuss that at the next meeting. The committee clerks are still working on agriculture and fisheries issues, which will include forestry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 232926,
      "EditedText": "Forestry is quite important in European legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 232927,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 232929,
      "EditedText": "Are you referring to views on the process of developing our work programme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 232931,
      "EditedText": "The answer is no. There is a broadly similar view, with few exceptions, on both the committee's general role and the issues that it should be considering."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 232933,
      "EditedText": "I agree. I have made notes about point 6—language issues—because I have asked questions in the Parliament on some of the matters listed there. There is quite a big overlap between the remit of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and point 6 of the document. If our aim is to mainstream, perhaps we should be tackling these issues rather differently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 232934,
      "EditedText": "Irene Oldfather's point does not apply only to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, as point 6 asks\"What benefits would there be to businesses, especially in relation to exports\".Some of the work could be split up and remitted to other committees. I always think that we should send it to forestry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 232936,
      "EditedText": "Yes. My point was that point 3 on page 4 needs to be expanded. It deals with the process of mainstreaming, but Margo Macdonald is asking more about how we can get at the nitty-gritty of the key issues with other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 232939,
      "EditedText": "The third point, on page 2, should perhaps be called advocacy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 232940,
      "EditedText": "We will reword that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 232946,
      "EditedText": "Section 2 should contain a fourth point on our relationship with other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 232948,
      "EditedText": "Is it the intention that we produce a short, medium and longer-term programme in which we prioritise the range of issues to be discussed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 232951,
      "EditedText": "Or Gaelic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 232952,
      "EditedText": "The paper is not meant to resolve all the details immediately. After we have set the broad objectives, we will start to allocate work. As part of the process, we need to consider how we engage with other committees and how they can help us to fulfil our broad objectives. A number of useful suggestions have been made about where the emphasis should be and about some of the detail. We will have another chance to go through the document when the paper is redrafted. Is there anything else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 232953,
      "EditedText": "Our first function is to scrutinise. The draft report suggests an early warning system, or forward intelligence network, in Brussels so that we are not left merely scrutinising something when it is almost a fait accompli. Perhaps the clerk can advise us on how we could set up such a network. Would it be done through Scotland House, the European Parliament and its committees, the European Commission in Brussels or through the Commission's offices in the UK? The Commission has an office in Edinburgh. What is the best way to proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 232955,
      "EditedText": "In one of our previous meetings—in August or September—I suggested that we examine the European Commission's legislative programme. At the time, the Commission was planning next year's programme. It would be helpful for the committee to have that information. We will not be able to do this today, but at a future meeting we may also want to consider the Committee of the Regions' forward work programme and establish how we can build some of its work and forthcoming reports into our discussions. Last week, I finished a report for the Committee of the Regions, but there was not really an opportunity to bring it to the European Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 232958,
      "EditedText": "We have agreed that we will ask for a document that indicates what all the different bodies in Scotland, the UK and Europe do. At some point, it would be helpful for someone to take us through that. Today, I gave Stephen Imrie a flow chart produced by the Local Government International Bureau in London, which shows the decision-making process in Europe. It will be to the good if, as part of our learning process, we have another discussion about this so that we can begin to find out when decisions are made and—as Irene Oldfather says—to feed information in from the Commission, the Parliament, the Committee of the Regions and others. Dennis Canavan's point can be covered by that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 232959,
      "EditedText": "I heard someone say that, next week, we would be talking about reporters and considering who would do what."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 232967,
      "EditedText": "We could all express an interest if we thought that now was the appropriate time, but I did not know that people had already done so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 232973,
      "EditedText": "That is what you get for being polite, Winnie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 232974,
      "EditedText": "I am not polite. I just wait until I see what the subjects are before I say which one I would like. That is quite reasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 232977,
      "EditedText": "We are still awaiting an explanatory memorandum on document 349 (EC Ref No 10251/99, SEC(99)1213).We are also still awaiting an explanatory memorandum on document 350 (EC Ref No 10742/99, COM(99)348 final), but there is a mistake in the sift note. The suggested referral should be to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, not to the Rural Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 232978,
      "EditedText": "Why not send it to them anyway and see whether they notice? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 232984,
      "EditedText": "We have written to Scottish members of the European Parliament, and we have had replies from at least one. Bill Miller has suggested that one thing that we might want to consider doing next year is getting into the process earlier. He feels that, at the moment, we are coming into the process a bit too late. Winnie has made a similar point on that and other matters before. As far as this item is concerned, it is probably too late for that, but we would—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 232986,
      "EditedText": "Well, the second reading—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 232987,
      "EditedText": "We are looking again at the whole way of dealing with infectious salmon anaemia."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 232988,
      "EditedText": "No, we are on a different subject now. We are on document 393, which is a draft general budget of the European Communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 232993,
      "EditedText": "I have a specific interest in the interception of telecommunications, which is the subject of 413. It is important to establish where the Scottish criminal justice system fits into the concordats and the fault lines between the two Parliaments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 232994,
      "EditedText": "I shall bring forward a recommendation once I have discussed with the convener of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee whether there should be joint deliberation, either between individual members or in a joint committee meeting. If members are agreed, that is the best way forward. Document 437 falls into the same category as the previous documents on mutual assistance in criminal matters, and we are advised to take no action at this stage. That is agreed.For document 417 (EC Ref No 11492/99, COM(99) 425 final), we are still awaiting information from the Executive, so we are advised to take no action at this stage.For document 422 (EC Ref No 11156/99, SEC(99) 1302 final), a cover note has been requested and the document will be referred to the Transport and the Environment Committee for routine scrutiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 233002,
      "EditedText": "Members will note that some of these documents are being sent to other committees for their interest, but no further action will be taken as far as this committee is concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 233004,
      "EditedText": "If we formally refer a document to another committee, we require that committee to put it on its agenda, consider it and report back to us. If we copy it to another committee, we copy it to the clerk and the convener, who will decide whether it contains anything worth considering. I suspect that, more often than not, they decide that there is not. We copy documents to them just to keep them aware of what is going on."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C233006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
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      "ContributionID": 233006,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
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    "ID": "C233007",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "ID": 129
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      "ContributionID": 233007,
      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following document:"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233009",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 233009,
      "EditedText": "For document 453 (EC Ref No 10844/1/99, REV.1), a cover note has been requested. The document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 454 (EC Ref 12322/99, COPEN 48), the Scottish cover note has arrived. The recommendation is that no further action be taken. That is agreed."
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      "EditedText": "SP 455 (EC Ref No 12033/99, SEC(99) 1596 final)"
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    "ID": "C233012",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "EditedText": "SP 456 (EC Ref No 12053/99, COM(99) 500 final)"
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    "ID": "C233015",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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      "EditedText": "SP 459 (EC Ref No 12065/99, COM(99) 506 final)"
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      "EditedText": "SP 464 (EC Ref No 12079/99, COM(99) 512 final)"
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    "ID": "C233029",
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  {
    "ID": "C233030",
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      "ID": 1336
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 233036,
      "EditedText": "We can defer it. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 2029,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 233045,
      "EditedText": "Next is the report to the committee clerk from the clerk to the Rural Affairs Committee. Again, I suggest that we note that report.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 233047,
      "EditedText": "First, Sylvia Jackson will report on the meeting with a delegation from the Swedish Parliament."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
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      "ID": 6008,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 233050,
      "EditedText": "They were going on an intensive tour of the Highlands after the meeting."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233051",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
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      "ID": 2029,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 233051,
      "EditedText": "Very good. Winnie, the next report is on the meeting with Prince William of Orange."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 233052,
      "EditedText": "Oh, it was absolutely wonderful. Laughter. He is Adonis—and the most eligible bachelor in Europe. He was very pleased with me because I speak Dutch, which is my secret weapon. I was a student at The Hague Academy of International Law and I once had a Dutch boyfriend, which was a good incentive. I had a long chat with the prince, who is an amazingly talented fellow in terms of sport: he flies planes and is an Olympic person. His English was absolutely perfect.The joy of it was that every person in Scotland of Dutch connections was there, plus, I think, people from London. I did not realise that my old friend from the European Parliament, Jack Stewart Clark, would be there with his Dutch wife. He tried to act for the whole Conservative party in Scotland when it had no MEPs. I had not realised that he spoke fluent Dutch as well. It was an interesting meeting, and wonderful hospitality."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C233054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 233054,
      "EditedText": "I agree with your position, convener. That meeting is usually the most important Fisheries Council meeting of the year. The agenda shows that it is a crunch meeting.The principle that you wish to establish is right, convener. After John Home Robertson came back from his first Fisheries Council meeting, he said that he was open to the suggestion of appearing before the relevant committees. You might want to consider meeting the convener of the Rural Affairs Committee, to ensure that there is a tie-in between the two committees. We need to be on the ball and we should take submissions from the industry. There is nothing as important as this meeting for many of our areas."
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  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233057",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 233057,
      "EditedText": "Are members agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 233059,
      "EditedText": "I will invite members of the Rural Affairs Committee to the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 233061,
      "EditedText": "We will try to schedule that item on to the agenda, but it will probably be taken at a meeting early in the new year. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 232843,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is a presentation from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. Councillor Christine May, who is the COSLA spokesperson on European issues, is here with Adrian Colwell and Jon Jordan. We invited COSLA to give the committee its thoughts on the development of the Scottish Parliament's European agenda and, possibly, to indicate how it would like the future relationship between Scottish local government and the Scottish Parliament to develop.From my previous activity—I am perhaps slightly biased—I think COSLA is probably at the leading edge of European work, at both political and officer levels. It has helped to shape much of the European dimension in Scotland. Many of us are appreciative of the work that COSLA has done and will, doubtless, continue to do. Without further ado, I hand over to Councillor May."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 232845,
      "EditedText": "You have given us a comprehensive overview of COSLA's work. I am happy to throw the discussion open to members, but do either of the officers want to say something first?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 232847,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Christine, for your in-depth evidence. I, like the convener, am a former leader of a council. I am, therefore, a bit disappointed in the number of responses that we have received to our questionnaire: we have received four and four are yet to come, which is a low number. At this stage, that could be as much to do with the perception of this committee's role in the debate on Europe as anything, but how does COSLA think that we can increase the level of response for future consultation processes and ensure that we hear the real voice of Scottish local government? That is not meant to be disparaging to COSLA, but there are distinct voices out there that need to be heard.Enlargement and the euro are two of the big issues that will affect Scotland in the future. At a time when the number of member states of the European Union is set to increase, how does COSLA believe that we can broaden the perspective of the European Union while deepening the Union to ensure that it lasts? It would also be useful to have a bigger steer on COSLA's view of the euro. How does local government see the euro?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 232849,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. I realise that I have asked a lot. I apologise if I have hogged things somewhat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 232850,
      "EditedText": "I will invite the officers to comment on those questions also. I am pleased to say that Fife Council is one of the councils that have responded to the questionnaire. I am not aware which others have responded. It may well be that the response that COSLA submitted encapsulated the views of many of the others. We must recognise that many local authorities are relatively small in size and do not have dedicated European officers. As a result, the service that COSLA provides as part of its role of core donation, pulling together and advising on European matters, is quite adequate for the purposes of many councils."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 232851,
      "EditedText": "I probably put you at a bit of a disadvantage by not telling you which councils had responded. Dumfries and Galloway, Fife, Perth and Kinross and Stirling Councils have all responded, as one might have expected. However, I expected the city councils, in particular, to become involved in the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 232853,
      "EditedText": "Is there anything that we as a committee can do to reach your members? We would all complain if there were too many bureaucrats, but how can we make sure that a European attitude permeates all of a council's operations? How much time is given in COSLA's annual conference this year to the consideration of European matters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jon Jordan (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 232856,
      "EditedText": "COSLA does not have a view on when the single currency should be introduced; that is a matter for the UK Government. However, it is important that local government and business are prepared for the single currency, which already exists and affects our relationship with the euro zone. We must make our economic development services aware of the impact of the euro on exporters, so that they can prepare for it. Exporters will have to take strategic decisions when doing business with the euro zone.We also need to be prepared for the impact that the UK's joining the euro would have on local government services. We run very complex information technology systems in our finance departments and have vast amounts of machinery that would need adaptation. The earlier we plan for the single currency, the more cost effectively we can carry out our preparations. We have tried to make that clear through the handbook that we have issued to member councils. We are not taking a view on the single currency but, as sensible and far-sighted public servants, we are preparing for any eventuality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 232857,
      "EditedText": "Could you answer Margo's question, before I bring in Dennis Canavan and Irene Oldfather?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 232858,
      "EditedText": "It was on the specifics of the information campaign that is being directed at business. I am also a member of—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 232864,
      "EditedText": "Could you explain the role of COSLA in determining the membership of certain European bodies, such as the Committee of the Regions and the consortia? I am referring to the East of Scotland European Consortium and the West of Scotland European Consortium, which scrutinise applications for European funding and have a considerable say in deciding whether a project satisfies the criteria and how much money it should be awarded. Is COSLA consulted about the membership of those important bodies? Is there a case for their membership being decided by a more democratic process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 232875,
      "EditedText": "Can I just raise my second point about the euro?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 232882,
      "EditedText": "We must not get into a two-person debate. A number of members want to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 232892,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in what Adrian Colwell said about mainstreaming. Mainstreaming is important, but we are a long way from it. The man in the street does not see local government as having a role in European issues. Despite what everyone has said today, I am concerned that local authorities are passing responsibility for dealing with European issues to COSLA. The individual councillors of all persuasions that I have met do not perceive European issues as being in the main stream."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 232893,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that that is the case. If you ask councils about European issues, they will probably say that they leave them to X or Y, who is the European expert. However, if you ask them to tell you about the projects in their ward that have received European funding, they will often be able to name not only the projects, but the individuals who have been involved in them and—if they have been a councillor for some time—the extent of their own involvement. That goes back to what Adrian Colwell said about mainstreaming; it means not that the councillor is seen as the sad anorak who knows everything about all aspects of European legislation, but that membership of the European Union and the benefits and opportunities flowing from it are seen as part of everyday life. When one asks people, \"What do you think of the Government?\" they will tell you that politicians are all rubbish. If one asks them, \"What do you think of x service or y service?\" they will tell you how good those services are. We must ensure that people think not in terms of European issues, but in terms of the benefits and opportunities that come from membership of the European Union."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 232895,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I will leave you a copy of our work programme and hope that, in drawing up your own, you might refer to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 232896,
      "EditedText": "I will ask Bruce Crawford for a synopsis by 9 o'clock tomorrow morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 232897,
      "EditedText": "He will multiply it by nine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6005,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 232899,
      "EditedText": "I shall advise the committee on the contents of the paper and how it was developed. Some 57 responses have been received as part of the consultation exercise; another 14 or so are still to come. The clerks have read the responses and highlighted some common themes. Members will find those themes in section 5 of the private briefing paper, on page 4. The next step, as I understand it, will be to invite a select group of the organisations to address the committee on the detail of the consultation, as COSLA has done today. That process will probably begin in the next meeting and continue into the early part of next year. There is little more for me to say on that, except to refer members to section 5 for the key issues that have been identified so far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 232900,
      "EditedText": "Any thoughts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 232907,
      "EditedText": "I meant to raise that point with you. Are we not allowed to impinge on the work of the Council of Europe, as distinct from the European Union? One of the suggested topics is justice and home affairs. People imagine that many matters that have come before the Parliament, such as the removal of temporary sheriffs, emanate from the European Union, but that is not correct. There is a European dimension but, as I understand it, these matters emanate from the Council of Europe and the European convention on human rights. Surely the European Committee can consider such issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6005,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 232909,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could get round it by saying—I think I am right—that every member of the European Union is also a member of the Council of Europe, so any decision that it takes impinges on European law as well as the law of each member state."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 232910,
      "EditedText": "It would be hard to imagine that a matter for the Council of Europe or the European Court of Human Rights would not be a matter for the European Communities or the European Union. The standing orders do not include the bodies that you mention, but I think that we can be flexible when required; if there is a problem, no doubt the lawyers will tell us. We can get advice on that, but it should not delay our work programme, and we will deal with any obstacles when we meet them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 232911,
      "EditedText": "I prefer the use of the term \"engagement\" to \"consultation\". We should include the draft national employment plan in our work programme. The rest of the draft is okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 232915,
      "EditedText": "That is clear—for example, we will have an item later on the EU budget, but it is obvious that, although we are asking people to comment on that, it is too late. We need to get into the process earlier, a point that Winnie Ewing made at previous meetings. We could strengthen that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 232919,
      "EditedText": "If we decide that those issues are priorities, whoever considers them will no doubt wish to take those details into account. We should not try to write a detailed report now. The paper contains suggestions for consideration only. Are you broadly in agreement with those topics?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 232923,
      "EditedText": "We are not deciding today which issues we will take on. I repeat: we have a list of suggestions for members to consider. If members think of issues that are not identified in the paper, they should suggest them now and we can consider them at the next meeting. However, Dennis Canavan, Cathy Jamieson and others have already suggested that some of those topics are so large that we would find it difficult to cope with them, to address your point, Margo. However, we will consider them and we will not be prescriptive. The paper suggests the type of issues that might be considered, but, no doubt, once rapporteurs have been appointed, other issues will be raised. We will try to be as specific as we can, but we do not wish to be prescriptive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 232924,
      "EditedText": "Is forestry included under agriculture? When will we know how we will go about appointing the reporters? I nearly said rapporteurs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6005,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 232937,
      "EditedText": "I think that, to some extent, we have taken a decision to speak in tongues. We have decided that it is a good idea for people to do business in the same language as the Greek with whom they are trying to do business. That means that we have to tell the business folk and the educationalists that they have a job of work to do. We are the lead committee on this and we are saying that they must come up with ideas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 232938,
      "EditedText": "There will be occasions when we want to work with other committees—there is an item later in today's agenda on which I will suggest that we work closely with the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. What we have attempted to say in this document is that it is legitimate for this committee to assume a broader advocacy role in European matters. Our role should not be purely reactive, or limited to giving views on matters that are put before us. We want to encourage a better understanding of the European agenda. That means that we must foster debate and engage actively with and promote European issues. We probably need to use a stronger word than dissemination to indicate the direction that we want to take.Do Sylvia or Margo have anything specific to suggest for the draft?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 232941,
      "EditedText": "As I have explained, there are two or three issues here. This is a terrific first draft, with very clear thinking. Members: \"Hear, hear.\" The spelling is right as well.We should start as we mean to go on. We could say that the way in which to tackle this, that and the next thing would be to disseminate them to other committees or groups. I do not want to lose sight of the fundamental point, which is that we should be discussing the effects of EU enlargement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 232942,
      "EditedText": "I am struggling to understand the change to the paper that will encapsulate your comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 232944,
      "EditedText": "The concluding paragraph of section 5 states:\"Please also note that consideration of the role and remit of other subject committees of the Parliament needs to be taken before agreeing the list of issues\". We will have to return to that debate, but there is nothing to stop us as a committee saying, \"Here is the broad objective that we believe is important from a European perspective. We want to know what you, as another committee, are doing to assist in achieving that objective.\" That is not inconsistent with what we have said; it does not mean that we will do all the work—other committees will do some of it. When we come to appoint rapporteurs, some of those issues will be taken forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 232945,
      "EditedText": "I think that, as Sylvia Jackson said, points 5, 6,7, 8 and 9 of section 5 link with point 3, on page 4, about mainstreaming European issues. It would be simpler if, rather than going into all the detail, we made those points into subsections of point 3. That would solve the problem of how we dealt with the matter in the paper. We can discuss the detail later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 232947,
      "EditedText": "We will see whether we can add that. We will also consider Cathy Jamieson's comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 232949,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we could do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 232950,
      "EditedText": "If we have long-term, on-going monitoring and discussion at the same time as—in the shorter term—we ask for information from, or joint meetings with, other committees of the Parliament, we will be running to two different time scales. Is that how we will both establish the over-arching philosophical approach to our role in the new enlarged Europe and work out how to teach the weans to speak French?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 232956,
      "EditedText": "I hesitate to inundate the committee with a huge volume of information, not all of which will be relevant. We may occasionally need to examine the work of the European Parliament, the European Commission and the Committee of the Regions to get advance warning of what is relevant. The committee should discuss its relationship with a range of organisations and how we can feed into them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 232960,
      "EditedText": "If we can agree the detail of the document, we could start to look at that. If we cannot get round to it, it would need to slip to the meeting after next."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 232962,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I have given some thought to it and—in the spirit of the Parliament—we will be as fair as we can. The priority is to agree on the principles and programme and—if necessary—to take a step back and agree on the principles of how we allocate the work. It will not help if we squabble over who does what. At the same time, we need to agree on the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 232963,
      "EditedText": "As long as you give us what we want, I am sure that we will not squabble."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 232964,
      "EditedText": "I have seen you in action before, Bruce. I know exactly what you mean.Is there anything else that has not been included? I echo the comments made by members of the committee in thanking Stephen Imrie and the members of his team for their work. We will try to tidy this up and produce a paper for consideration at the next meeting. We will also make some suggestions about the allocation of the rapporteurships. Some people have already expressed an interest; they will not always be accommodated entirely, but we will try to do so as much as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 232966,
      "EditedText": "Sorry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 232968,
      "EditedText": "I am puzzled, Winnie, because we have at least twice asked committee members to express their interest. It is possible that that has not registered, but everybody has had the opportunity to express an interest. I will say it a third, if not a fourth time. The fact that people have been asked to express their interest does not mean that any decisions have been made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 232970,
      "EditedText": "We suggested that people could express their interest in broad terms. It is rather petty to start making complaints about that, as everybody was in the same boat. The people who responded have clearly used some initiative, but that does not mean that they will get the area in which they have expressed interest. The suggestion was an attempt by the clerks—quite rightly—to gauge people's interests. I do not think that it was jumping the gun."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 232971,
      "EditedText": "I did not receive a letter from the clerks about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 232972,
      "EditedText": "We discussed it more than once, Winnie. I am sorry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
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      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 232975,
      "EditedText": "Let us leave it at that—we are quite clear about what we have asked. The intention was to try to extend some courtesy and to engage members. If that has not worked, that is unfortunate. The committee will make the final decision at a future date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
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      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 232979,
      "EditedText": "We have received a Scottish cover note on document 376 (EC Ref No 11024/99, COM(99)368 final), which suggests no further action.We also have a Scottish cover note on document 377 (EC Ref No 11025/99, COM(99)437 final). The suggestion is that we refer the document to the Rural Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
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      "ID": 6006,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 232981,
      "EditedText": "Shall we refer this to the Rural Affairs Committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 232982,
      "EditedText": "Document 393—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 232983,
      "EditedText": "Is that not the sort of thing that should be debated on the floor of the House, as it were, in plenary session?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 232985,
      "EditedText": "It is not too late; that is the whole point of what we are saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 232991,
      "EditedText": "That is right. Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 232992,
      "EditedText": "Although I think that there is nothing for us to do on documents 411 (EC Ref No 11084/99, COPEN 37), 412 (EC Ref No 11570/99, COPEN 42), 413 (EC Ref No 11571/99, COPEN 43), 414 (EC Ref No 11603/99, COPEN 44) and 437 (EC Ref No 12010/99 COPEN 47 COMIX 344) at the moment, an issue arises that we should perhaps consider along with the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. I suggest that, in the first instance, I have a meeting with the convener to see whether we need to have some joint debate and consideration, or, if necessary, a joint meeting. There are a number of significant issues for the Scottish Parliament that go beyond this committee. We should ensure that all the justice matters are being looked at adequately. Do members have any suggestions on how to proceed with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ContributionID": 232996,
      "EditedText": "SP 440 (EC Ref No 11766/99, COM(99) 473 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232999",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 232999,
      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following documents:"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 233000,
      "EditedText": "SP 450 (EC Ref No 11921/99 COM (99) 480 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "ContributionID": 233001,
      "EditedText": "SP 451 (EC Ref No 12042/99 COM (99) 463 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C233003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 233003,
      "EditedText": "What is the difference between referring a document to another committee and simply sending a copy to another committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C233005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 233005,
      "EditedText": "If we simply send them a copy, can they still take up the issue if they think that it merits further study and action?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following documents:"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C233013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "SP 457 (EC Ref No 12062/99, COM(99) 503 final)"
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    "ID": "C233018",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "EditedText": "SP 462 (EC Ref No 12068/99, COM(99) 509 final)"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C233023",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "ContributionID": 233023,
      "EditedText": "SP 467 (EC Ref No 11422/99, RECH 102 TRANS 203 ECO 353)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233025",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following document:"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C233026",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ContributionID": 233026,
      "EditedText": "SP 469 (EC Ref No 11998/99, COM(99) 481 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 233031,
      "EditedText": "Are we waiting for further documentation on 473?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 233032,
      "EditedText": "No. The recommendation for document 473 (EC Ref No 12090/99, COM(99) 485 final COD 99/0208) is that no further action be taken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 233034,
      "EditedText": "Then let us take our list of documents for which we agree no further action up to 472. What do you think that we should do with 473?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 233035,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should wait for more information or for a copy of the document."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C233037",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following documents:"
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  {
    "ID": "C233038",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 233038,
      "EditedText": "SP 474 (EC Ref No 12159/99, COM(99) 489 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233039",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "ContributionID": 233039,
      "EditedText": "SP 475 (EC Ref No 12012/99, COM(99) 483 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ContributionID": 233042,
      "EditedText": "SP 478 (EC Ref No SEC(99) 1093-94, 1098, 1140-41, 1143, 1266, 1299, 1414)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
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      "ID": 6006,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 233044,
      "EditedText": "The next item is consideration of the report to the committee clerk from the clerk to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. I propose that we note that report. Are members agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 6007,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ID": 6007,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 233046,
      "EditedText": "The next item is consideration of a negative instrument. I suggest that we note this item.Members indicated agreement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 233048,
      "EditedText": "Winnie Ewing, Margo MacDonald and Maureen Macmillan were also present. It was a most useful meeting. There was no heavy debate on any particular issue, but it was nice to talk about issues that we share, such as domestic violence, offenders and drug issues, and to get another perspective on those issues.It was also nice to see the political mix within the delegation. Does Eugene want to say anything? Secretarial support came with the group, but I do not know what ideas were exchanged. Overall, it was a useful and interesting meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C233060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 233060,
      "EditedText": "It would be a good idea to ask the Executive to report back as well. It might be helpful to ask the Executive to report activity proactively to the committee. As there is no individual minister for European matters, it is quite difficult to pick up what the Executive has been doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C233063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 233063,
      "EditedText": "Could the committee make a decision one way or the other on what is happening on the East of Scotland European Consortium conference? We need to make other plans if we are not going to attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 233065,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:56."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 23 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 6003,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 232841,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:04"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C232844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Christine May (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 232844,
      "EditedText": "At the outset, I wish to thank you, convener, for inviting me to make this presentation to the European Committee. My firm belief, which is based on 11 years' experience of dealing with European issues in local government, is that a successful relationship in European terms is firmly based on a successful partnership with all those involved. That includes all politicians, individual members of the community, the business community and the academic community, and is the basis of my approach to working on European issues.I will outline the growing partnership that Scottish local government has with the institutions of the European Union. Members will be aware that COSLA has produced a paper on its relations with the European Union, the structure of which largely follows the framework proposed in the questionnaire circulated by the committee to partner organisations.It must be emphasised that the European Union has a great influence on the Scottish domestic policy agenda and a major effect on the policy competences where responsibilities lie with the Scottish Parliament and local government. Most local government services have a European dimension and each treaty seems to include more competences at a European level in which Scottish local government has an interest. For example, the Amsterdam treaty was ratified earlier this year and included new competences in employment creation and social inclusion. It also extended competences in the area of equal opportunities.There is a proud record of innovation in Scotland in these policy areas, which are important for local government. As I have said before, there is a growing recognition that complex policy problems need action from all spheres of Government. Problems such as the fight against unemployment and against drugs and the need for greater social inclusion are in that category, and all spheres of Government must work closely to produce effective solutions.Scottish local government's involvement with the European Community goes back to the early 1980s, when local government began to use the structural fund programmes to fund capital projects aimed at economic development and training projects. By the time that local government reorganisation was proposed, most of the regional councils and the larger district councils had teams of European officers. The Single European Act 1986 and the Maastricht treaty extended European competences so that many new competences were shared with local government. The Single European Act 1986 produced the single European market 1992 campaign, and over half the 200 measures proposed had an effect on Scottish local government. The importance of local and regional government was recognised in the Maastricht treaty, through the creation of the Committee of the Regions. I have the great pleasure of serving on that committee with the convener, Hugh Henry, and Irene Oldfather.The Committee of the Regions is an advisory body with 222 members drawn from the 15 member states. It must be consulted on a wide range of issues, including regional development, education, training, transport, public health and social policy. Not only has it been successful in outlining the role of local and regional government in the European Union, it has served as a valuable forum to exchange views with local and regional government politicians from the 15 member states.I turn to the four distinct areas of European interest for Scottish local government. They are co-funding of projects with the European Union; the implementation of European legislation; the influence of the European Union on local communities and the business community; and the exchange of experience and best practice between European, local and regional government. I will discuss each of those areas briefly.Since the European Committee began its work in July, it has spent a significant amount of time considering the future of the structural funds. That has also been an important issue for COSLA and for Scottish local government. We have played a strong role in the partnerships that were created after the 1988 reforms and we are major users of the funds to help to deliver our economic development strategies. In many respects, the structural fund partnerships have been extremely effective in Scotland and have promoted partnership working across many other areas of the public sector. They are important in terms of local government and the Scottish public sector generally. They greatly assisted the diversification of the economy and are helping to create a modern economy.While the mainstream funds are important, there are grants for European projects in a wide range of policy areas; for example, the community initiatives project, which provides for jobs in spatial planning, training, equal opportunities and urban projects. There is also co-financing of local authority projects available in education, culture, youth work and environmental projects. Those projects are transnational in nature and thus promote greater co-operation between communities across the European Union.The second area of interest is the implementation of legislation. Scottish local government is the enforcing agency for environmental legislation, particularly environmental health, and consumer protection and trading standards. It is also bound by directives such as the landfill directive and other waste disposal and environmental regulation.Collectively, Scottish local government is the largest employer in Scotland and therefore an enormous amount of health and safety, employment and equal opportunities legislation affects the way in which member authorities operate. Recent examples are the working time directive and the parental leave directive, which comes into effect, I think, on 15 December. COSLA currently holds the presidency of the employers platform of the Council of European Municipalities and Regions, which was formed to represent local government as employers and which has developed an effective dialogue with the Commission and with the European Public Services Union.The third area of interest is the way in which the European Union affects local communities and local businesses. That became most noticeable under the Single European Act 1986 and the 1992 single market campaign, which stressed the freedom of movement of people, goods, services and capital. That has a major impact on many areas of council work: as education providers, where we must provide our children with skills so that they can work and live in Europe; and in terms of business support, where we advise businesses of the greater trade opportunities associated with our membership of the European Union.The exchange of experience and best practice is an important aspect of our relationship with our European counterparts in local and regional government. Diversification in rural areas, for example, is a problem shared with other rural areas of the European Union. The restructuring of traditional industrial areas is equally shared with our partner states. We must work closely with colleagues throughout Europe to devise new solutions and exchange best practice. The European Union makes money available for transnational projects to stimulate the exchange of experience.As well as taking part in and leading transnational projects, Scottish local government has taken a leading role in European organisations such as the Assembly of European Regions and the Conference of Peripheral Maritime Regions of Europe. My own council is an active member of the Assembly of European Regions and of the European Regions of Industrial Technology. We are closely involved with the North Sea Commission, which, as I am sure many committee members will be aware, was largely responsible for getting the INTERREG IIC programme up and running. That has brought benefits to maritime and northern dimension areas.At your previous meeting, politicians from Saxony-Anhalt spoke to the committee on the 10th anniversary of the removal of the Berlin wall. The former Strathclyde Regional Council devised and operated one of the first major exchange of experience programmes to central and eastern Europe, through the ECOS-Ouverture programme.You can see from what I have said that Scottish local government has a successful record of partnership with European institutions and of co-operation with local and regional government across the European Union and into the wider Europe—as we must not forget the applicant states, which are important. That partnership and co-operation has helped to develop best practice and strengthens the local government voice. That helps when local government across Europe agrees a common position, which it does frequently through the Committee of the Regions.Through COSLA, we have had an effective dialogue with the European Community for many years. In the 1980s, COSLA helped to establish the Local Government International Bureau with colleagues from English local authority associations and joined with other associations across Europe to promote and share the common interests of local government. COSLA's activity in structural funds began in 1989, when it established a structure to administer the local authority European social fund programmes.In 1993, COSLA established an office in Brussels, which was located in the Scotland Europa centre. It worked with business to help to promote Scotland. COSLA feels that membership of Scotland Europa has been successful and that Scotland Europa has provided a strong focus for Scottish activities in Brussels. COSLA has worked closely with partner organisations in Scotland Europa to ensure that there is one voice speaking for Scotland. We look forward to the new opportunities to do that, together with the Parliament, in Scotland House.There are five officers working on European policy in COSLA's Edinburgh and Brussels offices. COSLA consults with member councils on forthcoming proposals from Brussels, influences European institutions through its advocacy strategies and informs member councils of European funding programmes and legislation. We have a European members network, which meets quarterly and each council nominates a member, who, I am pleased to say, is usually the leader or a senior member of the administration.COSLA provides the secretariat for the four Scottish members of the Committee of the Regions and, with the Local Government International Bureau, it provides the secretariat to the UK delegation, so we speak with a common voice for the UK when that is agreed. COSLA and LGIB also provide the secretariat to the United Kingdom local authority delegation to the Council of Europe. That is another partnership link which is important for getting a coherent strategy for Scotland in Europe.The Brussels office has been important in providing information and intelligence in both directions. It promotes greater contact between the European institutions and Scottish local government and allows us to work more closely with other associations. It plays a key role in our relationship with the Council of European Municipalities and Regions and with the European local authority network.I will now discuss the relationship between local government and the Scottish Parliament and its importance for producing a Scottish strategy. We must be aware of the challenges that Europe faces. Enlargement to the east is essential to preserve peace and prosperity but will change the nature of the Union. We must have a debate in Scotland to discuss enlargement and the opportunities that it will bring. With the discussions about the intergovernmental conference beginning next year, it is important that there is a Scottish view on enlargement. The Committee of the Regions last week adopted a resolution on enlargement following a successful conference. That demonstrates a good way of discussing an issue, then taking a position.Another area where the public and democratic sector of Scotland needs to work closely together will be economic and monetary union. Whether we go into the single currency or not, it will have an impact on business, particularly on Scottish companies that export or supply to multinationals. We must work closely together to ensure that Scottish companies are ready for this challenge. This has begun through the Scottish Euro Forum; the public sector, together, now needs to build on the work of that forum.The EU is trying to promote the information society. Many of the projects promoted by the Commission establish regional and local networks to examine the effects on economic structures, on society and on Government.One of the Scottish Parliament's key objectives is to bring government closer to the citizen, which is an important consideration, particularly in relation to matters about Europe and the European Union.It can be seen from what I have said that relations with the European Union are extremely important for local government. Local government has a successful track record, but we must emphasise the need to work with the Scottish Parliament to pursue the collective interests of the Scottish people. The public sector in Scotland must work together if Scotland is to continue to have the good relationship with the European Union that it has enjoyed until now. A key part of that will be partnership between the Scottish Parliament, COSLA and Scottish local government.I am happy to answer questions, convener."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C232861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 232861,
      "EditedText": "I would be delighted to answer Ms MacDonald's question. I am sure that she will recall that this year's COSLA conference was on the theme of the establishment of the Scottish Parliament and its impact on political life in Scotland. Europe will be on the agenda for the conference that is scheduled for this year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 232865,
      "EditedText": "I can respond to your question with regard to the Committee of the Regions, because I am very familiar with that. I will come back to the other matters that you raised in a moment.The current mandate of the Committee of the Regions was agreed before the establishment of the Scottish Parliament. For that reason, its UK contingent was made up of representatives of local government. In Scotland, COSLA made nominations to those positions to the Secretary of State for Scotland at one of its full meetings. The secretary of state agreed the nominations and forwarded them to the UK Government for approval.Given that the Scottish Parliament now exists, we do not know what will happen in the next mandate. In our submission to McIntosh, who consulted on European matters, I expressed the view that there should be parity: half of the places should be allotted to the Scottish Parliament, and the other half to local government. However, as far as I am aware, it has been agreed that the current representation will remain until the end of its four-year term.I think that you may be confusing the east of Scotland European partnership and the west of Scotland European partnership with the consortia that you mentioned, which are different organisations. I will ask one of the officers to comment in detail on the selection process for the partnerships, but I was pleased to note that Jack McConnell, the Minister for Finance, recently agreed that their membership should be extended to democratically elected political representatives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor May: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 232868,
      "EditedText": "I would love to think that we could say to the Scottish Parliament, \"Go away. You are not having any of our places\". I doubt that that would be right or even desirable. We must not confuse the body to which Dennis Canavan refers, which would be made up of representatives of directly elected local and regional governments, with the Committee of the Regions. The COR was established under the Maastricht treaty and has the statutory right to be consulted in a number of areas by both the Parliament and the Commission; its functions were extended by the Treaty of Amsterdam. The other body that was mentioned may make its views known, but does not have the same statutory rights of consultation.Elected members of regional governments from right across the European Union are represented on the Committee of the Regions. Much as I would like to keep membership to ourselves in local government, it is almost inevitable—and quite right—that the Scottish Parliament would wish to be represented on that committee, and I believe that it should be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6004,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 232872,
      "EditedText": "I had originally intended to pick up the point on local authority responses to the consultation exercise, but a few points have been raised since then. On my original point, many local authorities see Europe as a specialist area and subscribe to the expert experience of organisations such as COSLA. I note that the West of Scotland European Consortium and the East of Scotland European Consortium both responded to the consultation process. They bring an additional regional representation that some local authorities feel is necessary. Therefore, I can understand why some local authorities may not have responded to our questionnaire.COSLA brings a wealth of experience, particularly on the euro, and it is important that we do not try to reinvent the wheel on that issue. Can we explore with COSLA how to bring a distinctive political aspect to that debate? As Jon outlined, COSLA does not have a view on whether we should go in or stay out of the euro, but it has a fundamental role on the ground, liaising with local authorities throughout Scotland. It would be useful to explore the added value that the European Committee and the Scottish Parliament could bring to that debate without reinventing and going over the good work that has been done. We should capitalise on existing experience."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 6004,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Colwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 232873,
      "EditedText": "I want to respond to Ms Oldfather's first point. It is fair to say that European affairs in local government tend to seen in terms of particular funding issues, international liaison and so on. However, it is worth bearing in mind the fact that Jon Jordan and I, with our other colleagues in Brussels and at Rosebery House in Edinburgh, are in contact with a range of offices across local government—equal opportunities, trading standards, environmental services and so on. There is an extensive two-way process on what draft proposals mean for local government, which in turn feeds views into the Scottish Executive, the European Commission and the European Parliament. We have been trying, particularly since reorganisation in 1996, to mainstream the approach so that the EU is seen not as separate and distant but as integral to service delivery. We still have a lot more to do to encourage that view but it is fair to say that we are well on the way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 232878,
      "EditedText": "No, hold on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 6004,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 232879,
      "EditedText": "Okay, that is enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 232883,
      "EditedText": "My comment is not on fish exporters, but on jobs, a subject that I am sure members will agree is fundamental to why we are here. My remarks touch on a point that Dennis Canavan raised and that Christine May mentioned in relation to the finite nature of structural funds. I am concerned that the outcomes should not only match the criteria that Christine outlined but be sustainable in the longer term. This committee, like COSLA, has spent much of the past three months in discussions with the Executive on the content of the structural funds plan. That is now away; whether it comes back in the form in which it went is anybody's guess. As I believe that job creation is a key element of the output from the structural programme and as we are about to embark on a new phase in the national employment action plan, I share the view that current programmes do not place sufficient emphasis on regional and local levels. The plan should have greater emphasis on regional and local employment policy initiatives. How will COSLA work with the Parliament to finalise those objectives in terms of the structural funds and the draft employment plan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 232887,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the information coming through local authorities to businesses about preparation for the euro. Does COSLA have primary responsibility for that? Does COSLA have a partnership with the local enterprise companies? As a member of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, I am interested in how that information is being passed on and who fits in where, because so many businesses report that they are not ready for the euro and do not understand a lot of what is happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 232889,
      "EditedText": "On that point—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 6004,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6004,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 232890,
      "EditedText": "Hold on, Irene. We are running over time. Christine, did you want to add something?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 232898,
      "EditedText": "We have circulated a private draft paper with some suggestions for the work programme. I do not want to take any decisions on the content of that paper today. Its purpose is to inform members and to stimulate suggestions. We can put any suggestions into a final draft, for decision making at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 232903,
      "EditedText": "On a similar point, the draft is heading in the right direction, in terms of covering all the issues that we need to address. Irene Oldfather is right. The agenda is huge; if we want to do it justice, we should identify the priority areas that we need to deal with in the first six months, bearing in mind the fact that we will have a bit of time in which to explore some of the other topics in more detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 232904,
      "EditedText": "I hope that members will have suggestions about priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 232914,
      "EditedText": "My point is that forward intelligence is obviously the key to influencing EU legislation, otherwise we are simply reacting to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 232928,
      "EditedText": "May I ask the clerk, through the chair, whether, in the submissions that we have received, any groups have questioned the rationale of this exercise or have a different view of how we should progress it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 232930,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 232932,
      "EditedText": "This document is a brilliant start. I am sure that we would not have been able to proceed so quickly if the first draft had not been so good.My first point follows on from what Dennis Canavan has said. On page 2, the paragraph headed \"Consultation\" should perhaps be divided into two. We need to respond to matters that the Scottish Executive raises but, as has been said, it is important for us to be proactive. In addition, paragraph 3, entitled \"Wider Issues\", does not follow from the first two points, \"Scrutiny\" and \"Consultation\"; it is not in the same category. That may need a wee bit of thought. It might be possible to include that point under the heading \"Consultation\". We need to ask ourselves what we will be consulting on.Point 3 on page 4 refers to mainstreaming, which seems to be about our linking up with the various committees of the Parliament. However, page 5 deals with individual committees. Perhaps points 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 could be subsumed under point 3 to make the order a bit more logical."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 232935,
      "EditedText": "We will need to be careful. At previous meetings, we expressed the aspiration to be involved in some of the broader issues, not just to refer things to the relevant committee. If we say that all education-related items are a matter for the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, or that all enterprise items with a European dimension are a matter for the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, we will narrow down our role. This is all about getting the appropriate balance and the appropriate working relationship with other committees. I think that Sylvia Jackson is making a slightly different point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 232943,
      "EditedText": "On point 6 of section 5, I know that a modern languages working party has been examining the teaching of modern languages in secondary schools in Scotland. I asked a question on the prospect of a pilot project on the immersion teaching of foreign languages. It is possible that members of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, or the Scottish Executive, have more knowledge about this matter than we do. We have role to play but, when we have such a big agenda, must we reinvent the wheel? We will examine wider issues, too, but I imagine that the working party that is examining how to improve foreign language teaching in primary and secondary schools will have considered how foreign languages are taught in Europe and best practice abroad."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 232954,
      "EditedText": "Stephen Imrie suggests that it could be done through all those bodies. The other issue that needs to be considered is the fact that we have a different role from the Scottish Executive. While we appreciate the co-operation that the Scottish Executive has given us so far, not only in Edinburgh, but in Brussels, there will be times when it is appropriate for us to have access to our own support. At some point, we may need to consider having a representative office in Brussels so that we can get independent analysis and information. Perhaps we could work in partnership with COSLA, helping it to invest in or expand the work that it does. I do not want to belittle the work carried out by the Scottish Executive, but we need to recognise that there will be times when our roles have to be different. We may need to put down a marker and come back to this issue. A discussion with COSLA could be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 232957,
      "EditedText": "If we want to expand our general strategy to include a fourth strand, covering our relationship with other committees in the Scottish Parliament, could not we extend it to include our relationship with other organisations in Europe, as Dennis Canavan suggested?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 232961,
      "EditedText": "I want to know what process we will use to get there; a discussion about who will do what could be interesting. I do not know how we are going to manage it. Has any one given any thought to it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9778635+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 232965,
      "EditedText": "That is jumping the gun, is it not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6005,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ID": 6005,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 232969,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, Hugh, we did not have a chart that laid out the areas before."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 232976,
      "EditedText": "Let us move on to the scrutiny process and go through the documents.The first is document 346 (EC Ref No 10736/99, COM(99)388 final). We have just received the Scottish cover note, and the recommendation is for no further action to be taken. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 232980,
      "EditedText": "We are very glad to have this note. It is a hopeful sign that we are considering the Norwegian experience, because they have been much more successful in dealing with fish diseases than we have in the United Kingdom. We cannot come to any conclusion because there is to be another meeting of the Fisheries Council; but we should keep the issue very much in mind, because it is fundamental, especially in the Highlands. We should keep our eye on it, but the news so far is very good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 232989,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. I was looking at document 377 on the control of fish diseases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 232990,
      "EditedText": "There will be meetings in a couple of days' time for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 232995,
      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following documents:"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 232997,
      "EditedText": "SP 441 (EC Ref No 11767/99, COM (99) 472 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 232998,
      "EditedText": "For document 447 (EC Ref No 10525/99 COM(99) 429 final), we are awaiting information and no action is required at this stage. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "ContributionID": 233008,
      "EditedText": "SP 452 (EC Ref No COM (99) 349 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C233014",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 233014,
      "EditedText": "SP 458 (EC Ref No 12064/99, COM(99) 505 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C233016",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
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      "ContributionID": 233016,
      "EditedText": "SP 460 (EC Ref No 12067/99, COM(99) 508 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
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  {
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      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 233017,
      "EditedText": "SP 461 (EC Ref No 12066/99, COM(99) 507 final)"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 233019,
      "EditedText": "SP 463 (EC Ref No 12069/99, COM(99) 510 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 233021,
      "EditedText": "SP 465 (no EC Ref No)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 233022,
      "EditedText": "SP 466 (EC Ref No 9614/99, JUR 234 COUR 10)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 233024,
      "EditedText": "For document 468 (EC Ref No 12373/99, COM(99) 456 final), a Scottish cover note has been requested, and the document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 233027,
      "EditedText": "For document 470 (EC Ref No 12031/99, COM(99) 486 final), we await the explanatory memorandum, and the document will be considered at the next meeting. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 233028,
      "EditedText": "The committee recommended that no further action be taken on the following documents:"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C233033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 233033,
      "EditedText": "We can get funding from various budgets for languages."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 233040,
      "EditedText": "SP 476 (EC Ref No 12011/99, COM(99) 467 final)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C233041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 233041,
      "EditedText": "SP 477 (EC Ref No 11550, PESC 333 COWEB 121)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 6006,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ID": 6006,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 233043,
      "EditedText": "Documents 479 (EC Ref No 12509/99, COPEN 54) and 480 (EC Ref No 11951/99, COPEN 45) are connected with the justice issue that we mentioned earlier. The recommendation for both documents is that no further action be taken at this stage. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 233049,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 233053,
      "EditedText": "It was certainly a cultural experience for Prince William of Orange as well. Laughter. Thank you.At our next meeting, I suggest that we consider submissions on the Fisheries Council, which will meet on 16 and 17 December. We need to get the industry's thoughts on the agenda of the council's meeting. We could do that in two ways: either we consider written submissions from the industry at our next meeting, which we could then take forward to the Scottish Executive, or we ask a committee member, such as Tavish Scott, to contact industry representatives and bring back a synopsis of their views to the next meeting.Following the Fisheries Council meeting, I would like to have a report back from the Scottish Executive, to establish the principle that, if it is relevant to this committee, the Executive should come back to let us know exactly what was discussed. I am open to suggestions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 233055,
      "EditedText": "I could invite members of the Rural Affairs Committee to our next meeting.As I said, there are two ways of approaching this issue—one is to ask for written submissions and the other is to ask a committee member to co-ordinate responses. What is your view, Tavish?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C233056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 233056,
      "EditedText": "Gulp—I will happily co-ordinate that, if that is the committee's wish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C233058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 233058,
      "EditedText": "Give him forestry if he says no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 233062,
      "EditedText": "I have one further item to report to members. It appears that the objective 3 plan will not be ready in time for our next meeting. Therefore, we may need to schedule a meeting between then and Christmas to consider the plan. The alternative is for us to get the plan at short notice, an experience that we have been through before and that I do not think is acceptable. Members need plenty of time to consider the plan. We will come back to this issue when I have further information, which I hope will be by the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C233064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1336
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6008,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 6008,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 233064,
      "EditedText": "Stephen Imrie will speak to people individually about that at the end of, rather than during, the meeting. I thank everyone for attending."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9934849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 191334,
      "EditedText": "However, in principle, you would welcome such an indicator?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 191332,
      "EditedText": "I am conscious that you will issue another response to this consultation document. Would it be fair to say that one of your concerns about the inclusion of a performance indicator on the mainstreaming of special needs education is that it would not necessarily be backed up with resources?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.2853385+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 23 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 4584,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4584,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 191249,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:10"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 191255,
      "EditedText": "Is it the case that the repeal of section 28 will remove from local authorities a legal excuse to hide behind?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Hopkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 191258,
      "EditedText": "A lot of the performance indicators would be suitable. Some of them are non-quantitative. A lot of them deal with issues such as examining the curriculum to see whether equality issues have been included, which is perfectly appropriate for LGBT equality as well. There is not much that is inappropriate. The problem is just that we are not included."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 191259,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the need to monitor types of bullying. Are there any other specific indicators that would be particular to LGBT groups?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Hopkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 191260,
      "EditedText": "I cannot think of one off the top of my head, but as we have said, that is something that needs to be worked on, especially if we want to develop quantitative indicators for which year-on-year targets could be set."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C191262",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 123
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Hopkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 191262,
      "EditedText": "That is a good example of an indicator that could be quantitative. There may be problems, initially, in setting targets, given that it is unclear whether monitoring of bullying is done thoroughly in schools. If bullying starts to be monitored thoroughly, the records at first will show the numbers going up, not just because monitoring is more thorough but because pupils may become more willing to report bullying incidents. Eventually though, one would hope to be able to set targets so that numbers would go down again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191264",
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      "ID": 123
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Hopkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 191264,
      "EditedText": "There is a lot of concern among the public. That is caused partly by the wording of section 28, which bans the promoting of homosexuality. It is a myth that homosexuality can be promoted in the sense that people can be turned gay. That cannot happen no matter what people are told at school. The wording is very bad. I believe that it was chosen for a reason: to promote that myth.The message needs to be got across to the general public over the next few months. The distinction between teaching and awareness is not clear-cut. It is important that throughout teaching, where appropriate, pupils are taught that there are differences; for example, there are different kinds of religion within Christianity and within other religions. Pupils must be made aware of those differences and of the fact that different people have different beliefs. Similarly, all pupils need to be aware that there is a diversity of sexual orientation.Society will be the better for there being tolerance and understanding of that diversity. Teachers can be proactive in setting up a school environment where diversity and tolerance are encouraged. I do not think that there is a clear distinction between awareness and the teaching environment. The issue is not about people being taught to be gay, which is an impossibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Hopkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 191269,
      "EditedText": "The only figure that we have is the self-reported figure from the study in Glasgow of lesbian and gay people of all ages, 29 per cent of whom reported that they felt that their educational attainment had been affected. Jamie Rennie has a lot of experience of this area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C191275",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 191275,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
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      "ID": 123
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 191276,
      "EditedText": "We welcome the representatives from the Educational Institute of Scotland. You may be invited to give evidence to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, but this committee is concentrating on the equality aspects of the bill. I do not know whether you have had the opportunity to read some of the evidence that we have already heard. Please feel free to comment on it if you have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Nicol: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 191281,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to talk about some of the deeper equal opportunities issues that are linked to the bill. The bill does not address what is happening to the teaching profession, although that is fundamental to improving Scottish education.There are many reasons why we are not attracting men into teaching. The statistics are worse than they look. About 90 per cent of primary teachers are women, as are 80 per cent of secondary teachers under the age of about 32, so this is not just an issue for primary schools.One has to consider what happens to teachers when they go into teaching. After a four-year degree, they are probably faced with a fairly long period of instability. They are likely to be temporary or supply teachers and not to have a particularly high salary. They do not get General Teaching Council registration for a fair length of time. One could argue that that is a less attractive prospect for men than it is for women. The number of men who go into secondary teaching is far greater than the number who go into primary teaching. One would also have to conclude that another factor is the career structure that is available in secondary but not in primary education.A person with a desire to teach is faced with an uncertain profession and a depressed salary. If that person has qualifications that give easy access to a higher-paid profession in, for example, engineering or information technology, they are more likely to change their mind and move in that direction. Statistics from universities and colleges show that the majority of students on courses such as engineering or IT are still men. There are options for men in secondary education that do not exist in primary education. Uncertainties in both sectors tend to deter people from entering teaching careers. There are perhaps more opportunities for men outside teaching, as the areas in which it is easier to get jobs tend to be those that are dominated by men. I do not know whether advertising would help, as the problem is more fundamental than that. A range of issues have to be addressed in the primary sector, including stereotyping, before there is an impact on men."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 191283,
      "EditedText": "I would be interested in any comments that you have on boys' attainment relative to girls'. It seems remarkable that, in the past, girls were blamed for not being ambitious enough to do well, but that, when boys are not doing well, girls—in the shape of women teachers and mums who do not have partners—are still being blamed. The issue is not necessarily one of attracting men into primary school teaching; it is about what kind of stereotyping has already taken place. In fact, one of the lessons is that, if there is a man in a primary school, he is more than likely to be the head teacher.One of the matters that we are discussing is the role of schools in delivering our aspirations of equality. We are interested in how schools can undermine that through their structures and the messages that they give out about where the power is, from the head teacher to the janitors and cleaning staff, whose roles are clearly defined. I would welcome your comments on that.I am also interested in the tension that exists in schools. We had a presentation from members of the Equity Group, who talked about the entitlement of young people, whatever their disability—be it a learning or physical disability—to a place in a mainstream secondary school. Obviously, that would include youngsters who display difficult behaviours. What is your view on the tensions that that sets up in a school, with regard to different kinds of rights? Do you feel that the entitlement of all to a mainstream place is a legitimate, or realistic, aspiration?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Nicol: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 191285,
      "EditedText": "Also, one tends to forget in all the blaze of publicity about the underachievement of boys that there are also underachieving girls. There is not the same blaze of publicity about them, because they tend not to be loud or attention-seeking, and so tend not to be mentioned in press headlines. This issue is that of all underachievement in schools, not just the underachievement of boys.In terms of the entitlement of all young people to a mainstream education, clearly, we support that, and we have discussed it at length. However, an inclusive education is not inclusive if all you do is put a child in the classroom. If they are just there, that is not inclusive education. If education is to be inclusive, resources must be provided. Special education, whether it is required for behavioural and emotional support, or because of special educational needs of another kind, is a demand-led resource. There are tensions, for example, with regard to the provision of special educational needs auxiliaries. There are tensions over how you help a child in a class when you identify that they need support for 27.5 hours, when the authorities are only able to provide support for 15 hours or 20 hours. We do not have the answers to those problems, but I am sure that for all children who are able to receive a mainstream education the resources should be there. If they are not, they are not receiving an education: they are just being put in a classroom.It is also reasonable to say that some children, for a variety of reasons, can benefit from a non-mainstream education. I am thinking, in particular, of children who are hearing impaired and who use British sign language. When those children go to a school such as Donaldson's, which is designed for children who are hearing impaired, they are in a community where people use the same language as they do. They get many benefits from that, which they would not get if they were isolated in the mainstream. Mainstream education is not the only answer, although all children who would benefit most from mainstream education should be entitled to it, provided that it is resourced."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C191287",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian McKay (Educational Institute of Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 191287,
      "EditedText": "I will take that question on. At that specific level, much of the new social inclusion policy can be helpful, in as much as you are trying to bring together the different agencies concerned, to work out, with input from those agencies, the best decision.Previously, we have criticised the way in which parental choice works with regard to placement. In the same way, you cannot have a system on mainstream education that is driven solely by parental wishes. In both health and education, professionals are employed to assess people and one should listen to what they have to say.Overall, we support the development, perhaps in a more basic way, of what is spoken of more grandly as social inclusion. I will broaden the question out a little, to consider what we have to face up to. When your committee, and the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, discuss the bill, we would like you to consider the different demands on the education system in general, and on teachers in particular, with regard to what we are supposed to be delivering. On the one hand, we have social inclusion issues, which the EIS fully supports and endorses. Indeed, the institute has fought for those issues for many years. On the other hand, we have academic achievement. Only yesterday, we saw the publication of quite spurious academic standards league tables and the intense interest that everyone takes in them.In our view, those demands do not sit neatly together. If we are to be measured as an education service, someone in authority—the Executive, the Parliament or whoever—has to give the education service more of a steer as to what is expected of it. Are we looking for improved academic standards and everything that goes with them? Or are we looking for a more socially inclusive service, which addresses the needs that we were the first to identify?To augment our submission on the bill, we make the point that we cannot meet both those demands in a simple way; similarly, the demands cannot be measured in a simple way. Ministers and the Parliament need to provide the education service with some direction on what the priorities actually are."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C191289",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian McKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 191289,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty that we have is that—as you are aware, convener—there is a separate consultation exercise taking place on the special educational needs aspects of the bill. As recently as Friday, we agreed on our submission to that consultation, which I imagine you will not have. I am sitting looking at it now; but rather than trying to summarise a 12-page document in a few words, we would be very happy to provide you with copies. On another day, if you can find time in what I am sure is a busy agenda, we would be more than happy to come and discuss the document with you."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191290",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 191290,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. If you could pass it to Martin Verity for copying, that would be very useful."
    },
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  {
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Veronica Rankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 191292,
      "EditedText": "From time to time, we write to institutions and ask them how they have managed to integrate equal opportunities issues into initial teacher training. Most of them have some kind of separate equal opportunities course or unit. We would prefer that, on top of that, equal opportunities issues were integrated into all aspects of courses.Some issues, such as special educational needs, were easier to identify than others. However, I know that section 28 issues surrounding gay and lesbian teachers and pupils are not universally addressed. The picture varies. A couple of years ago, I was involved in training on those issues, so I know that it happens. But the problem is the degree to which it happens. That, and the quality of the training, depend very much on the people in the institution.The publication of \"A Route to Equality and Fairness\" has been quite helpful in focusing people's minds on the fact that this is an essential part of initial teacher training. However, once such a course is in place, it will be just another course unless the training is continued throughout a teacher's professional development.People also look on equal opportunities as being simply an issue of gender or race. They do not take a holistic approach. Poverty can also have an effect on issues of gender, race and disability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Veronica Rankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 191294,
      "EditedText": "In some places it is a choice element; in others it is integrated throughout.The other teacher training issue that we should mention is the role of the EIS in developing equal opportunities policies and joint training with the local authorities. We have experience of that, and it has been especially helpful. However, that should not be a one-off: it should be revisited every year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 191295,
      "EditedText": "Margaret Nicol said quite a bit about performance indicators. You were critical of some indicators, such as that used by the Accounts Commission. You asked for local consultation, and I think that you said that HM inspectors of schools did not really understand or pay much attention to the performance indicators for equality.My main question is on the actual document, \"A Route to Equality and Fairness\". Is it quite a good foundation for equality indicators, or does it leave a lot to be desired?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 191299,
      "EditedText": "Yes, in terms of improving on equality and fairness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 191301,
      "EditedText": "That is interesting. In the language of the bill, performance indicators seem to be an obvious mechanism, but are you saying that other things, including the curriculum, are more important? If so, can that be built into the bill? Could PIs be achieved through curriculum guidelines? How can that be done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 191303,
      "EditedText": "People's public pronouncements seem to contain a greater emphasis on the ends than on the process. Learning and teaching are important processes that our members are involved in on a daily basis. One of the inspectors is on record—and Brian Boyd often quotes this—as saying that if it cannot be measured, it does not exist. As Margaret said, many things happen at school that are extremely difficult to measure but are essential to the process. If there is to be increased attainment across the board for all pupils, and not just the select few who get five or more highers, the bill should give some substance to the process of learning and teaching in schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 191318,
      "EditedText": "Do other members have questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
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      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 191317,
      "EditedText": "We would almost be compromising their interpretive role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
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      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 191319,
      "EditedText": "You have mentioned the process, the results and the difficulties. You have also alluded to the fact that one of the consequences of placing requests and devolved management is that schools' ability or willingness to meet special educational needs, or the needs of marginalised youngsters, is affected. Is that quantifiable? Has any work been done on that? We should argue for statistics on such subjects. Popular schools can always claim to be too busy to take some youngsters, so the unpopular schools must take them. Those schools might be willing to take them but they might not have the appropriate resources. Divisions between schools become greater and greater. Do you think that it is possible to quantify how schools make the hard decisions about how the school will do better by being selective about offering spaces to youngsters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian McKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 191323,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to underline that we have always supported the expansion of pre-school provision, but it must be done in a high-quality way. The 1956 code set out certain standards for staffing, the important thing being that a nursery class should have a registered teacher, although a class of 30 might have a registered teacher and two nursery nurses, to provide a 1:10 ratio of adults to children. That should not be watered down—with the greatest respect to nursery nurses—by the removal of the educational professional. The short answer to your question is yes. We do not think that setting up a pre-five establishment that does not meet the appropriate standards should be permitted. Local authorities should not go down that road. The private sector is required, if we are to have expansion, as local authorities are not tooled up to support it. We are happy for the private sector to be involved, but we are concerned that standards should be maintained. The bill would place a statutory duty on authorities, but the quality must not be lost. We strongly feel that the work that is done at pre-five and during the first couple of years of primary school is essential for everything that follows. If it is done wrongly, money is thrown away.We want the code to be revised—it was previously considered in 1956—and we are concerned that the only apparent revision seems to be a watering down, which does not ensure the continued presence of teachers in such provision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 191325,
      "EditedText": "Yes. There is a detailed briefing in the follow-up to the inspection. There is always a dichotomy between what is written in the report and the verbal support from the inspectors. In my own case—to be anecdotal—I found that what the inspectors had to say was professionally extremely helpful. I do not know whether I should allow that to go on record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 191326,
      "EditedText": "You have said it. I am afraid that it already has."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 191333,
      "EditedText": "There is always a fear in education that, when schools are asked to focus on an issue, the resources will not be provided—I have already given the example of modern languages in primary schools. From bitter experience, we have learned to live with that, but we do not accept it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 191335,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 191338,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 191344,
      "EditedText": "So nobody is going to the conference in the morning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 191345,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we agreed that nobody is going in the morning; we were going to try to find somebody who can go. I cannot go because our meeting cannot go ahead unless I am here. The issue is still unresolved. The organisers of the conference would still like someone from this committee to attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 191346,
      "EditedText": "I am going in the afternoon. I do not know whether Michael wants to go in the morning. I assume that we both have the same problem: we do not know what is on the agenda for the morning of 14 December, but in general we do not want to miss a committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 191348,
      "EditedText": "I have the same concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 191349,
      "EditedText": "At our meeting on 14 December we may take more evidence on the improvement in Scottish education bill. However, I think that the organisers of the Stirling conference would like one of us to attend in the morning. I will ask Martin Verity to speak to members of the committee about that after this meeting. If anyone has an interest in disability issues and is prepared to go along, they will have to miss a committee meeting. That is just unfortunate. If we had a deputy convener, I would go and miss the committee meeting, but unfortunately we do not. Martin will get in touch with members by phone over the next day or so, so that we can get back to the organisers. I do not think that we can do any more than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 191358,
      "EditedText": "The Parliamentary Bureau draws up the programme of business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 191361,
      "EditedText": "The committee would have to decide whether it wanted to use its one half day a year to discuss that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 191365,
      "EditedText": "If there is to be a debate about how we want to use our half day, it must be honest, open and full. We do not want to be driven by the fact that this issue has generated much publicity and interest. We might conclude that we want to use our half day to debate the Act of Settlement, but we should not decide that now. What about the work that has come out of the sub-groups, which has not been done elsewhere?I have an open mind on the matter, but we need clarification on what our entitlement is—is it a half day or is it more? Is there a bidding system? At some stage, although not necessarily today, the committee must decide the priority. What is the first thing that the Equal Opportunities Committee of the new Scottish Parliament wants to bring to the chamber for debate? That will be a hard decision. There are many competing interests. If we make a move on the Act of Settlement now, we will not take the other issues that concern us into the round."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 191376,
      "EditedText": "That is up to the committee. The difficulty with joint meetings is one of timetabling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 191384,
      "EditedText": "Yes. They would be welcome to come to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 191387,
      "EditedText": "We said that we would consider meeting weekly again when we were coming to the end of the committee cycle. I am reluctant to meet weekly, because I do not think that that would give enough time for individual groups. If we focus more on the work that we want to do with an end goal, such as feeding into the legislative programme or producing reports, we can continue to meet every other week. It is up to the committee how often we meet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 191389,
      "EditedText": "The turnround for a weekly committee meeting means that there is barely time for anybody to get anything done.Is the next meeting the last one in the cycle?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4587,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ID": 4587,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 191392,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is correspondence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4587,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ID": 4587,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 191393,
      "EditedText": "There is no correspondence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4587,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ID": 4587,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 191394,
      "EditedText": "That is all the business. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 191388,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps that matter should be considered at the next meeting. We will know what the timetable looks like by then and will be able to make a decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.3640332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Hopkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 191253,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is right. The response to section 28 has been very different in different parts of the country. Section 28 has never been used in court to stop a local authority doing anything. Although some local authorities have gone ahead and done that sort of thing, others have taken the opposite view. Perth and Kinross Council refused to give a grant to Dundee Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Switchboard, specifically citing section 28 as a reason for not giving a grant. Authorities' responses have been different because section 28 is badly worded and, legally, does not mean anything at all; its only effect is to act as a disincentive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jamie Rennie (Equality Network): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 191254,
      "EditedText": "The City of Edinburgh Council said that it was an anti-bullying issue, rather than a sexuality issue. It funds us to support young LGBT people because it is evident that schools and other youth agencies are not in a position to offer that support. The council sees the issue from a person-centred point of view, not from a section 28 point of view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 191252,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Tim. You mentioned Edinburgh's anti-racist and anti-bullying policy document. Other local authorities have said that, because of section 28, they cannot produce documents in partnership with organisations such as Stonewall youth project. How was the City of Edinburgh Council able to get round that? Did it just do it and wait for somebody to challenge it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C191263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 191263,
      "EditedText": "You will appreciate that, coming from the west Highlands of Scotland, my mailbag is pretty full on this subject. There seems to be a great deal of confusion. I accept that pupils and teachers should be aware of different sexual orientations, but people in the far north have jumped on the use of the words \"teaching in schools\". There is a difference between teaching and making people aware of differences. Is that an issue? Should we be being careful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 191266,
      "EditedText": "That problem has as much to do with the media as anything else. The press feeds misconceptions about the matter to the public. The committee has a duty to ensure that accurate information gets out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C191267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 191267,
      "EditedText": "Quite right. Tim Hopkins mentioned that, as children are made aware of different religious attitudes, so should they be made aware of sexual diversity. I feel compelled to mention that, in many parts of north-west Scotland, the teaching of religious difference would not be acceptable either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
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      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 191268,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that the situation for gay and lesbian people is better or worse in schools than it is in the rest of society? I taught for 20 years and saw that the fact that openly gay characters were being included in soap operas—which are important to young people—changed young people's attitudes. I do not know whether bullying lessened, but awareness was raised. Are there grounds for optimism, or do your surveys suggest that things are as bad as they were 10 or 15 years ago?You talked about young people's educational attainment being affected. That would be an area on which the Executive could act on your proposals. Statistics have been gathered on truancy that results from bullying; more effective and sophisticated help could be offered to schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jamie Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 191270,
      "EditedText": "Last year's annual report details 14 crisis interventions in schools, most of which had a positive outcome for the young people involved. I will give you some examples. A young man, whom I will call Ian, is 14 years old and cannot walk home from school without being threatened and bullied; he has to get a taxi home every day. His life is grim. A young woman called Gemma, from west Lothian, reported in her diary 14 incidents of homophobic bullying on one day in school. She said that that was not an unusual day for her. Such young people go through school terrified of what will happen to them and leave school as soon as possible. In some cases, the further education system helps them, but the situation is not desirable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 191273,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming to the meeting. We may ask you to return when the bill gets to the next stage. We will take a short break while the next witnesses come to the table."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton (Educational Institute of Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 191277,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon. I am John Patton, the president of the Educational Institute of Scotland, and I thank the committee for this opportunity to give evidence and to expand on our written submission.Our response to the improving education bill was written in professional language. I would like to make a general opening statement and then allow others with more expertise in the field to talk.I want to introduce the vice-president of the EIS, Margaret Nicol, who is the former convener of the EIS equal opportunities committee, Veronica Rankin, who is our equality officer, and Ian McKay, assistant secretary, who is responsible for parliamentary business.We recognise and applaud the attempt in the bill to allow for local divergence when proposing a national framework for education. The EIS believes that those responsible for the management and delivery of the education service must ensure that it meets the needs of all pupils in their separate and different communities. We are committed to the ideal of a high-quality education service that is accessible to all. We recognise that developing an understanding of and commitment to equal opportunities is fundamental to the delivery of education of the highest quality. That is a long-standing commitment of the EIS, manifested in the fact that one of our standing committees is an equal opportunities committee.At the same time, there is a clear requirement in comprehensive education for substantial support structures in the form of national guidance on the curriculum, provision of resource materials, a national examination structure and the support of local authorities. We welcome the attempt to involve wider civic society and, in particular, the broad educational community in the development of policy. It is important that each recognises its ability to make positive contributions to the process; it is also important that encouragement of involvement is sustained. Schools and the EIS recognise the requirement to involve in decision making the parents of pupils who are experiencing disadvantage, regardless of the reasons for that disadvantage.Schools are places where pupils learn and where high attainment is fostered by teachers and all the staff who work in them. However, we believe that the purpose of education extends beyond examination success, important though that is for pupils, parents and school ethos. The promotion of self-esteem and confidence in all pupils is integral to professionalism and a fundamental prerequisite for effective learning and teaching. Mechanistic subject-based performance measures present a distorted view of child development and, in some circumstances, may inhibit opportunity if educational policy development is predicated solely on examination success.The EIS has concerns about proposals in the bill that may diminish opportunity for some. Unfettered devolved management to schools may severely inhibit the ability of local authorities to provide for special needs. There are also circumstances in which some of our members are disfranchised of their right to serve on school boards as parents. Although we support parental choice, we recognise that current placing request legislation has implications for the resources of those schools that are not the preferred option for parents.I will end there. I hope that you will take the opportunity to listen to what the vice-president has to say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 191280,
      "EditedText": "In another briefing, we heard that there were issues relating to male teachers in primary schools. The problem can partly be addressed through advertising, but it is important to attract men into teacher training for primary schools. How can that be done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Veronica Rankin (Educational Institute of Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 191282,
      "EditedText": "Margaret Nicol has covered most of what I want to say. The age at which people are recruited for primary teaching is 16, 17 or 18. Primary teaching should be made more attractive to boys in that age group. A much deeper issue is the perceived hierarchy within the education system, in which the older the age group that one teaches, the more important one is and the higher one's salary is.We have received tales from men—I am reluctant to mention this because it has not come up a great deal and the evidence is anecdotal—who say that they are unwilling to teach early age groups because of other pressures and other perceptions of working with those age groups. That may be why we have failed to attract many men even to be classroom assistants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 191284,
      "EditedText": "I should say that I am a primary school head teacher; the janitor and I are the only men in my school.On policy making in schools, devolved management of schools is not devolved management to head teachers. Devolved management means that all staff are now involved in policy making. As a trade union, the EIS encourages participative management, which is now happening in many schools. Teachers have more access to decision making through school development planning in particular and through departmental meetings. Equal opportunities and equality issues are always taken into consideration at all stages of policy making in schools, whether in curricular policies or pastoral policies. I hope that that addresses some of the issues that you raised, Johann."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 191286,
      "EditedText": "Who should make that decision? The tension for parents is that while they may think that their child would benefit from mainstream education, they do not make the decision about whether such education would be appropriate. Is it realistic to think that we could have a policy whereby if the parent thought that a non-mainstream place would be appropriate, the child would go there, but if the parent said, \"No, I would like every effort to be made to sustain my child in the mainstream,\" the authority would be obliged to work on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191288",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 191288,
      "EditedText": "On Johann Lamont's specific point, the Equity Group will be asking the committee to support an amendment, or perhaps several amendments, to the bill at stage 1. That amendment, if it is accepted, would have a massive impact on the teachers that you represent, because the Equity Group is in favour, eventually, of completely doing away with the parallel system for special needs education. I got the impression, from the Equity Group's presentation, that the group wants no special needs provision at all. It would be useful for the committee to know whether you support that view, or whether you feel that there will always be a need for special provision, such as the provision that Margaret Nicol mentioned for kids with hearing impairments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 191291,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of questions—one general and one a bit more specific—for Veronica Rankin.In paragraph 2.3 of your paper, under the heading of \"The Improvement Framework\", you say that you\"continue to have concern at the absence of teachers and other representatives of the educational community in education policy making in some Councils.\"Given what has just been said about devolved school management, could you explain that a wee bit further and say exactly what you mean? Are you talking about the education committees in councils? And what kind of input are you suggesting?My second question is on the issue of teacher training, which the Equality Network and the Equal Opportunities Commission commented on. What are your views on the equal opportunities and social inclusion issues that are integrated into teacher training at the moment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 191293,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that the equal opportunities element of teacher training would be a choice element?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 191297,
      "EditedText": "Have you or anyone else done work on the issue of performance indicators that would allow us to make some progress?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Veronica Rankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 191300,
      "EditedText": "I would not quarrel with the actual document. It is particularly good, because, I was told, whenever HMI asked questions about the consultation process, it took EIS's comments into consideration.I caution against a mechanistic approach to equal opportunities, in which there can be tick boxes to say that this, that and the next thing have been done, that the inspectors have been satisfied. Since I did work with the technical vocational educational initiative, which also had indicators, I have found this to be a huge problem: equal opportunities must be part and parcel of the curriculum, and situational discrimination must always be challenged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Nicol: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 191314,
      "EditedText": "Tension is caused by both making the policy and implementing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 4585,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Nicol: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 191304,
      "EditedText": "Ian was not contradicting himself, because we are not talking about number crunching, but about a statistic. Statistics, when they are used for information, are extremely useful. It is not just the Scottish Executive that needs to look at the breakdown of issues by race in Scottish schools; it is not being done north of the border at all. The Scottish Qualifications Authority, for example, can supply all sorts of statistics about educational results by gender, but it does not have any information about educational results by race. One of the problems—it was a problem for us when we started monitoring—is that people think that asking that question is being racist, which means that people duck the issue by not asking the question.That is more or less the answer we received from the Scottish Office when we asked that question. It is the answer I received from the SQA, which is now considering it. There is a desperate need for statistics about children of different ethnic backgrounds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Veronica Rankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 191305,
      "EditedText": "I want to give Malcolm an example of the use of statistics that give the wrong message because they may give the appearance that equal opportunities are being pursued. It brings us back to what Johann was saying about the underachievement of boys and the apparent success of girls. The lesson is that, regardless of their success at school, girls are still being shunted into gender-disaggregated occupations and still experiencing discrimination. After years of legislation, there is still a 20 per cent pay gap between men and women, so while we welcome certain aspects, we have to be careful what we extrapolate from the apparent success of girls at school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian McKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 191307,
      "EditedText": "What we were alluding to in that part of our submission was—as you may be aware—the tortuous history of the previous UK Government on the role of teachers and other representatives on education committees. The Local Government and Housing Act 1988 removed teacher representatives from local authority education committees, although—happily—that piece of legislation has never been brought into effect. Unfortunately, however, the legal departments of some councils decided that they would point out the act to their leaderships. Our understanding is that the vast majority of local councils have had the good sense to continue with teacher representation on education committees.At times, we are rather doubtful about the method by which representatives get on committees. We favour a normal elective system. Sometimes, teachers are appointed. In other local authority areas, there continue to be difficulties with the consultative mechanism. We are keen for not only teachers, but other community representatives, to be involved in that process. In the past, education committees had the involvement of churches and the local community. We think that that was a good process. Local councils should seek the involvement of other community interests in consultation on the education service. We certainly need to involve teachers.Those forums are tried and trusted, as opposed to other mechanisms that have been developed more recently, such as citizens juries, which are too often a pick and mix by people in positions of power. If a jury comes up with the answer that is being sought, that jury is the one that will be brought forward and four others will be left aside. A transparent mechanism, such as an education committee with representatives of teachers and the local community, would achieve a representative voice in the discussion of educational policy.We want some improvement and clarification, given that the legislation in the area is only half enacted at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 191310,
      "EditedText": "Should we be limiting the quantitative aspects to a certain percentage of the total report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 191312,
      "EditedText": "Should there be a separate body that takes the setting of an agenda away from the inspectorate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 191315,
      "EditedText": "Is there a conflict between those roles?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 191320,
      "EditedText": "That could not happen because of regulations, but parents can be selective and that has an effect. Resourcing of schools depends on capitation.I was once head teacher of a smaller school where what Johann Lamont described happened. The school was in an area of social disadvantage. Because of the small number of pupils, we had difficulty addressing educational needs without the education authority's support. If there is unfettered devolved management, if all the money goes to the schools and if there is no top slicing for the authority to address special educational needs, there will be real difficulties for small schools. They must—as Margaret Nicol said—provide for the number of hours that will be required of a special duty attendant or of a learning support teacher to address those needs.I do not know about any research. Perhaps Veronica Rankin knows of work that answers your question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Veronica Rankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 191321,
      "EditedText": "Substantial work has been done in England. Devolved management of resources is different there and some local authorities have looked carefully at its effect, particularly in urban areas. The placing requests legislation did not have the same impact in rural areas. I am fairly certain that I have that work and I will gladly give it to the committee when I can put my hands on it. From the evidence that came to us, it was not just a question of skewing the curriculums of the schools that had become magnet schools; there were also difficulties for schools who were losing pupils, in terms of provision for pupils and in-service training. There were also problems with prioritising such things as staff development. The full panoply of educational support was not available to all schools.Pupils with particular needs who ended up at magnet schools ended up disadvantaged. That has a serious effect on learning outcomes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 191322,
      "EditedText": "In section 5.5 of your response, on pre-school education, you talk about the provisions of the Schools (Scotland) Code 1956, and whether registered teachers, who hold the appropriate qualifications for nursery education, should be employed. Are you suggesting that there should be an amendment to the bill to that effect? Are you saying that a council should not be in a partnership agreement with a private nursery school, for example, unless that private nursery school employs registered teachers rather than nursery nurses? Could you explain that to me?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 191331,
      "EditedText": "Yes. There will be issues in the action plan that are mainly for the school to address but, obviously, any authority-provisional resource requirement is for the authority to address. There is little that teachers can do about the fabric of the building and such matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 191336,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much for coming to this afternoon's meeting. The Education, Culture and Sport Committee is the lead committee on this bill and we will make representations to it later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 191339,
      "EditedText": "The next item on our agenda is progress reports from reporters. The first to speak will be Michael Matheson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 191341,
      "EditedText": "Could somebody clarify for me what we decided last week about the Stirling disability in housing conference?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 191343,
      "EditedText": "The committee agreed that it will meet here on 14 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 191350,
      "EditedText": "I want to offer my apologies for not being able to attend our previous meeting. My reporter's group has not met since then, but I have had a response from Professor McLean to my letter asking about the document that she is producing on women offenders. The document is on the verge of being published but, because it was commissioned by the Scottish Executive, I am not sure at what stage we will have access to it. However, Professor McLean indicated that she is more than happy to meet the group to discuss the issue of women offenders.We are still waiting for information about \"Towards a Just Conclusion: Vulnerable and intimidated witnesses in Scottish civil and criminal cases\", which the group wanted to examine in relation to women. As for the visit to Cornton Vale prison, I have asked Sylvia Jackson, who is organising the visit, to report to the small group, which is probably the most useful way of finding out the important issues concerning the treatment of women in prison. Perhaps the full committee will want to examine the matter or organise its own visit. I am concerned about simply going for a look at the prison, as if the women there were in a goldfish bowl.Having spoken informally to women and women's organisations, I have found that the issue of women in the justice system opens up huge areas of debate such as provocation. Women's aid organisations have a lot of information and concerns that we would want to tap into. Perhaps the group should meet very briefly at the end of this meeting to plan our next moves.We agreed that we would invite Zero Tolerance, SAY Women and the Scottish human rights group to speak to the full committee. Perhaps this topic came up at the previous committee meeting and I missed it, but I would like to know how those invitations are going. As I am concerned that some of the group's discussions are not in the public domain, it is important that those presentations are held in public to bring the issues to the wider world."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 191352,
      "EditedText": "On a general point, when Martin produces that paper, will it be up to the committee to prioritise who comes before it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 191353,
      "EditedText": "The paper will have a list of which organisations have been asked, but it will be up to us to decide the priorities.We will now move on to Michael McMahon's report on race issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 191354,
      "EditedText": "I am circulating the minutes of this morning's meeting. We were asked by the committee to discuss as the meeting's first two items the Act of Settlement and the asylum and immigration bill. I have spoken to Martin Verity, because part of our problem with the act was working out what the committee could do with our report, which is very much still in progress. There was consensus on some areas, but not on others, which was a problem that we had to resolve. What came out of our discussion was the idea that the committee could ask the Parliament for a debate on the issue. As the minutes show, although the group agreed that a debate would be useful, it could not agree on the form of such a debate. However, the group was not totally au fait with procedures and could not decide on how the committee should approach the issue.At the previous meeting, Shona Robison asked whether the asylum and immigration bill could be put on the agenda. All members of the group agreed that we should invite the Scottish Refugee Council to speak to the committee about the bill. We suggest that we invite that organisation to the same meeting as that attended by the Scottish Human Rights Centre—we could take evidence from both groups. We would like that issue to be given a high priority. We then looked at how we, as a small group, could have an input into the work of the committee; there was total agreement that we should be proactive. Rather than waiting for issues to arise, we should take a step ahead. We agreed that we should take evidence on housing and that we should invite Positive Action in Housing to the committee, as it has a strong agenda on equal opportunities for black and ethnic minority communities—again, we wanted to place that issue firmly on the committee's agenda. We considered the briefings that we received during the recess, which were to guide the committee's work. Number crunching was one issue that arose—it was reflected in what the EIS representatives said earlier. Several organisations asked us to examine data collection. Tommy Sheridan, who cannot be here today, specifically wanted me to say that we must find a mechanism of obtaining statistics on employment, levels of pay and so on for those who are affected by discrimination. The group felt that that issue must be put on the agenda. Perhaps the equality unit can help us with this, but we must ensure that there is adequate data collection, to allow us to make good decisions that are based on facts. Under other business, we noted that there are a number of organisations that want to meet the committee and which we would like to meet, although there is no timetable for such meetings. When we considered the areas that are being examined by the sub-groups, it seemed to us that we bring many of those areas back to the committee, yet we still meet only once a fortnight. The view of the group was that we would have to reconsider that approach. We said that we would revisit the issue, but there is a feeling that the committee might need to meet weekly in the new year, so that it can meet the number of groups that want to come. At the moment, fortnightly meetings do not allow us to deal with the education bill—and other legislation that is being introduced. At the same time, we do not have enough time to consider the general issues. I was asked to raise those matters, so that the committee could consider them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 191356,
      "EditedText": "I know that work on housing is being undertaken by the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee—it is producing a report on housing. Has that committee sought representations from Positive Action in Housing? I expect that it will have done so. Would it be useful to have that evidence as a first base, so that we are not simply bringing people before the committee who have already made presentations to other committees? I agree absolutely that we should consider the issues that Michael raised, but if much of the information gathering has already been done, we could start from a different base. I am concerned about having weekly committee meetings, as there should be space for the sub-groups to work effectively—they were to meet in the week in which the full committee was not meeting. I understand Michael's point, but the benefit was that the fortnightly arrangement allowed the sub-groups to consider issues in some depth—it is a balancing act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 191357,
      "EditedText": "We can take briefings from different organisations in areas in which people are interested, but they might not necessarily fit into our work programme or inform the committee's work. We have agreed to consider specific matters, such as the education bill and any other legislation. I am not sure whether there has been any advice on the Act of Settlement. My understanding is that the committees have 12 half days a year of parliamentary time to use for committee business. I am not sure what the procedure for that is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 191360,
      "EditedText": "We had not remembered that. It is an obvious third option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 191362,
      "EditedText": "The committee can decide what it wants to advise the Parliament to do or, with the committee's agreement, the convener can put in a request to the bureau. If the committee intended to produce a report on the issue, that could include a recommendation, but there is a time factor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 191366,
      "EditedText": "Essentially I agree, but at the moment we are not even in a position to discuss the Act of Settlement. I have given members of the race reporter's group a draft statement and a date for the next meeting, but we already have a full agenda. If we need to discuss the Act of Settlement before the full committee next meets on 14 December, I can call another meeting of the reporter's group quite quickly. However, there was general agreement on the statement. It has to be typed up and some items need to be added, including an extra paragraph. We cannot take a decision on it today; we must wait for the statement to be agreed by the committee. We could make a report, but what would we do with it after that? That is what we need to find out. We cannot do anything until the matter has come before the committee and an agreement has been reached on how to proceed. I agree entirely with Johann Lamont. Once we have decided what we want to say on the Act of Settlement, we must decide which issue we will use to secure time for a debate in the chamber. It may be this one, or there may be more pressing issues, but we cannot decide today either way, and there is still a long way to go in debating the Act of Settlement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 191370,
      "EditedText": "That would be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 191371,
      "EditedText": "At the reporter's group it was broadly agreed that, given the cross-party support for the motion, there should be a debate to express Parliament's views and draw a line under the issue, rather than the motion just falling off the business bulletin. Our discussions focused on whether it should be a members' business debate, a non-Executive debate or an Executive debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 191373,
      "EditedText": "That raises a general question about the role of the Equal Opportunities Committee. We are covering all the other committee areas as well, so I do not think that the fact that that organisation is going to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee should prevent it from also coming here. We have a particular interest in promoting its concerns, although I am not saying that members of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 191374,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that anybody was suggesting that that was the case. We have already indicated to Positive Action in Housing that it could come here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 191375,
      "EditedText": "I thought that we might have a joint meeting with the other committee. I am concerned that witnesses might come to separate committees as if the other committees were not aware of which witnesses were being interviewed. We could have a joint meeting, or we could meet representatives from Positive Action in Housing after they had been to the first meeting, so that we could build on the first round of evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 191380,
      "EditedText": "There are quite a lot of racial equality councils."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 191381,
      "EditedText": "I know—that is the difficulty. How do we decide which councils should come, or should we arrange a delegation that represents them all?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 191382,
      "EditedText": "There are six racial equality councils, so it is not inconceivable that we could ask each to send a representative. When we take evidence, we might find that different issues are raised that relate to local matters, for example, local authority funding and problems in specific areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 191383,
      "EditedText": "Will I contact the racial equality councils to see what they think?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 191385,
      "EditedText": "Do the racial equality councils want to give evidence on a specific issue that we are dealing with? We have had briefings from other groups. Could the full committee get an informal briefing from them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 191386,
      "EditedText": "I will speak to them again, to find out what they think is the best way of dealing with the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 191390,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It is on 14 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 191324,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, inspectors inspect a school, then detail their 20 or so performance indicators at the end of their report. If a school fails to meet the objectives of one of those indicators, does the inspector detail the reasons for that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.2853385+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 191330,
      "EditedText": "It is then down to the local authority's action plan to address those issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.2853385+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 191340,
      "EditedText": "I do not have anything specific to report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 191342,
      "EditedText": "Is that something for the convener or for Martin Verity to come back on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 191367,
      "EditedText": "That is right. Nobody expects us to decide our priorities today. Johann usefully suggested that we need clarification as to what opportunities are available. It might be that there are opportunities beyond the 12 half days that are officially allocated; I would like to know whether there are other mechanisms for committees to raise with the bureau issues of concern that might arise during a parliamentary year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.3640332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Kate MacLean): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 191250,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is taking further evidence on the consultation document \"Improving our Schools\". We will hear from the Equality Network, whose representatives will give evidence first, and the Educational Institute of Scotland. I welcome the Equality Network to the committee; it is not very long since you were last here.Everybody should have received a briefing note. Members were actually sent the wrong briefing. You were sent one from Equity Group, not the Equality Network, but you should have received the correct briefing by e-mail. Does everyone have it? If you do not, there are extra copies here."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C191256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Hopkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
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      "EditedText": "It is partly an issue of excuses. As I understand it, if councillors take legal advice and then go against it, that could have personal consequences. It is also a question of a general disincentive for councillors and, more important, for teachers. Section 28 does not directly affect schools or teachers, just local authorities. Nevertheless, according to the \"Playing it Safe\" survey by the University of London, 56 per cent of teachers surveyed said that they felt that section 28 prevented them from giving such good support and advice to young lesbian, gay and bisexual pupils as they might otherwise be able to give. There is a lot of fear about what section 28 means, and that is the real problem."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 191257,
      "EditedText": "You referred to the Scottish Office document \"A Route to Equality and Fairness\". Much of our work will be to consider the kind of performance indicators that could be developed. Would it be appropriate to use any of the performance indicators suggested and, if so, which? What extra indicators are required?"
    },
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Hopkins (Equality Network): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 191251,
      "EditedText": "I am Tim Hopkins, from the Equality Network. I would like to introduce Jamie Rennie, from the Stonewall youth project, which is the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender youth support project in Edinburgh, funded by Lothian Health and the City of Edinburgh Council. The other witness is Brian Dempsey, from the Equality Network and our sister organisation, Outright Scotland. Thank you for inviting us along.As Kate said, we have produced a four-page briefing document. It is headed, \"Briefing for the Equal Opportunities Committee on the Improving our Schools consultation document\". I will run through the key points of the document.On the front page, we have described the background to the problem, which is that young LGBT people do not have equal opportunities in education at the moment, neither in schools nor in college environments. The biggest single problem for young people, if you ask them, is that of bullying and harassment. It is something that affects LGBT people directly, but other people too. Anybody can be homophobically bullied—they do not have to be gay to be a victim of that.Bullying and harassment affect people who are not out, who have not identified themselves or been identified as gay. If someone is in an environment where homophobic bullying is going on all the time, the effect on someone who has not come out is to make them terrified about telling anyone else that they are gay. It has a very bad effect on those people's self-esteem, as well as on that of people who are directly bullied.The bullying of pupils by pupils is the most common kind, but staff can also be harassed as well, by pupils or by other staff. In some cases, pupils are still harassed by staff. The second paragraph of our briefing document says something about the effect that that has on people. It affects their self-esteem and can cause emotional and mental health difficulties later in life. There is no doubt that the rate of attempted suicide is significantly higher among those young people who are bullied. Harassment affects people's educational attainment, because they stop learning if they are being bullied at school. Often, they leave school as early as they can, to get out of that environment.Bullying and harassment are not the only problems. At the bottom of page 1, we have described some of the other problems. There is a lack of awareness among staff about what it means to be gay. A lot of staff focus purely on the issue of sex, and think that being gay is all about sex, whereas, of course, it is not, especially for young people. Emotional and relationship issues will be much more important.There is a lack of clarity in confidentiality policies, so young people do not feel confident enough to approach staff and discuss concerns about their sexual orientation. There is also an issue of invisibility: we tend to be invisible in curriculum and library materials, for example. There is no recognition of the fact that not only may pupils be gay, but so may other members of pupils' families: brothers, sisters or, indeed, their parents.On page 2 of our briefing we give a list of recommendations, which are based on consideration of the Executive's \"Improving our Schools\" document.The first recommendation contains a question as to whether there should be a duty on local authorities—and, perhaps, on ministers—to promote equal opportunities for all in education. There is a lot in \"Improving our Schools\" about opportunity—the word appears many times. However, in the mechanisms that it outlines, and certainly in its list of example performance indicators and objectives, there is very little that will actually help to promote equal opportunities. That is despite the fact that equal opportunities is a key principle of the Parliament and Executive, and is also one of the three key principles that the McIntosh commission has recommended for local authorities. We ask whether section 1 of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980 should be amended to change the duty on local authorities, and we suggest that placing local authorities under a duty to promote equal opportunities in education should at least be considered.The second recommendation relates to the Executive's objectives and performance indicators, and to the measures that local authorities use to check the performance of schools. The ones that are mentioned in the consultation document do not seem to do very much for equal opportunities, so—as the document asked for suggestions—we have suggested a list of performance indicators and objectives that would promote the mainstreaming of equal opportunities in schools. That has to involve pupils, parents, all the staff, including support staff, school boards and parent teacher associations. It is important that parents are involved.I will not read them all out, but there a number of specific objectives on page 2. All of them are general equal opportunities objectives; they would apply to all kinds of equality. However, as shown on page 3, there are some specific requirements for LGBT equality.The first key point is that it is vital that sexual orientation is explicitly included in policies, and that what is meant by sexual orientation is spelled out. All too often that does not happen. An example of that is an excellent document produced by the Scottish Office earlier this year—\"A Route to Equality and Fairness\"—which gives self-evaluation performance measures for schools to allow them to evaluate their equality policies and their mainstreaming of equality. Sexual orientation is not mentioned once; neither are the words lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. Sexual identity is mentioned in two places, in contrast to the many mentions of race, gender and disability. Nowhere is sexual identity defined. It is very important that emphasis is placed on including sexual orientation and explaining what it means.It is also important to recognise that equal opportunities practices are not one size fits all. They have to be different for the different equal opportunities constituencies. For example, a disaggregation of statistics is very useful for monitoring equality on the grounds of gender and race, but it is no good for sexual orientation. Many young people are not out, and you certainly cannot ask young people what their sexual orientation is. Therefore, you have to ensure that your policies and your performance measures are appropriate for the kind of equality that you are talking about. Maintaining statistics on the type of bullying that goes on in schools is an appropriate way of measuring the extent of homophobic bullying, racial bullying, and so on.Of the particular LGBT equality issues, the two that are most often mentioned are the importance of confidentiality and an understanding of the importance of coming out. Coming out is a life-changing event for a young person, and it is very important that school staff understand the implications and can give support to people who are doing it or thinking about doing it.Resources need to be invested in working out the right policies and practices to promote LGBT equality, and in working out suitable performance measures. There has not been the same amount of investment in that as there has been in some other areas of equality.Point 4 on page 3 shows that there is good practice in some areas of Scotland. For example, in Edinburgh and the Lothians, several schools work closely with the Stonewall youth project to support young LGBT pupils. Another example is a document produced by the City of Edinburgh Council that gives anti-racist and anti-bullying policies for its educational establishments. It deals with homophobic bullying and contains ideas on how to monitor it. However, good practice is quite patchy. The consultation document, \"Improving our Schools\", does not make it clear what the mechanism will be for promulgating good practice throughout Scotland, but there must be a mechanism in place for identifying and promoting good practice.The fifth and sixth points are brief. Again, they are not addressed in the consultation document. It is important that the curriculum and teacher training guidelines that are issued have equal opportunities built into them.At the top of page 4, we mention that the first thing that people say when asked how we should start to deal with inequality in schools on grounds of sexual orientation is that section 28 must be repealed and the age of consent must be equalised. I hope that both those issues are being addressed and will now go through in the ethical standards in public life bill and the Westminster Sexual Offences (Amendment) Bill.We have included a note about how this issue relates to human rights. A right to education is enshrined in the European convention on human rights. There is also a prohibition on discrimination in the enjoyment of all the convention rights, including the right to education. That prohibition includes discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation, not explicitly but under the other grounds. Article 28 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child also enshrines a right to education and commits states to achieving equal opportunity in education.Finally, we have included a section of fairly dense statistics from a small number of studies that have been conducted—one in Edinburgh, one in Glasgow and a few south of the border—about the effects of discrimination on young pupils at school.That is all I wanted to say. We will be happy to answer any questions."
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  {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 191265,
      "EditedText": "Because of the wording, that concept is in people's minds."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C191271",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Hopkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 191271,
      "EditedText": "Is the situation getting better?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C191272",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jamie Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 191272,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I think so. For instance, I grew up in the Highlands and never heard the words gay or lesbian mentioned in a positive manner; I now work with these young people. The problem is that teachers often feel ill-equipped and without management support in dealing with the issues.Teachers are willing to help the young people; they see doing so as one of their responsibilities. Given support, training and access to good advice, they will be able to support these young people. There must be a top-down approach; policies must be in place that allow teachers to feel able to give support to young people."
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191278",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 191278,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
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  {
    "ID": "C191279",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Nicol (Educational Institute of Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
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      "EditedText": "As John Patton said, the EIS welcomes much of the content of the improvement in Scottish education bill. However, as representatives of teachers, we are concerned about a number of issues, as you will know from our submission. In particular, we are concerned about the relationships between the Scottish Executive and local authorities, between local authorities and schools, between employers and teachers and between local authorities and the inspectorate.It would be fair to associate those concerns with the dangers that we identify in mechanistic measures of performance and value. We believe not only that such an approach affects our ability to deliver education to Scottish children, but that a system based on mechanistic measures of performance and value cannot address equal opportunities issues in Scottish schools. Equal opportunities should be in the main stream of the education system, from policy making through to legislation, and should be monitored rigorously. We welcome, for example, the statement that schools are not in competition with one another.In our view, social inclusion is the most important equal opportunities issue that arises from the bill. We would highlight practices such as target setting or benchmarking by publishing measurable indicators including free school meals and aggregated five-to-14 scores, especially in a crude form. Those are extremely broad indicators, which were not intended to be and are not capable of serving as a measure of a school's performance—they were intended to be a measure of an individual's progress. Low results do not reflect the real progress that is being made in schools and their use as performance indicators is inimical to social inclusion. Coupled with placement requests, they can lead to parents who have the resources moving their children to apparently more successful schools. That causes an increase in the difficulties that are faced by the non-preferred school, a dilution of the whole system of comprehensive education and, frequently, the loss of curricular opportunities. Worst of all, it results in children moving from a school that, in a variety of ways, is meeting their needs to one that is simply achieving better results and may be no better equipped to deal with the individual's needs.We welcome the fact that the Scottish Executive has defined a formal relationship with local authorities. However, in establishing performance indicators, we want equity and ethos to be central indicators. We do not want only mechanical assessment measures. I give an example of what I mean by that. The performance indicators with which we are most familiar are those that are outlined in \"How Good Is Our School?\". Those indicators were launched by the inspectorate, with huge press coverage. They are encompassed by in-service training for senior school managers and underpin every inspection that now takes place in Scottish schools. There is an expectation that those performance indicators will be satisfied. At no time was the word equality used in any of those indicators. However, after some pressure, the inspectorate produced another set of performance indicators, in \"A route to equality and fairness\". I do not know whether committee members are familiar with those. They are equality indicators. There was no press coverage of them, there has been no in-service training and there is no expectation that they will underpin the inspections of schools as the other performance indicators will. The measurable will be measured, while the immeasurable will be lost. In setting up the performance indicators and in considering the role of the inspectorate in schools, the Executive should take equality issues on board and not base performance only on the measurable.Our submission outlines our concerns about the roles of the inspectorate as policy makers, judges and juries in schools. We do not believe that the inspectorate has no role to play, but we do not think that there should be an over-reliance on it when local authorities are being examined. It is difficult to imagine how equality and other educational issues can be properly monitored if the people who are setting the agenda are also those who are inspecting and finding out whether the service is satisfactory.Similarly, best value schemes—in which best value is simply the cheapest option—cannot deliver equality of opportunity for all children. We support the principle of best value in local government, but it must be recognised that raising standards can be done only in partnership. If equality issues—such as access to education, special educational resources and bilingual teaching—are not built into the system, we will get the cheapest provision and not the best value.We welcome the fact that local improvement objectives will be determined locally. However, all such proposals must be costed for resources. The number of initiatives that have not had the success that they should have achieved in Scottish education because they were not costed financially, materially or in human terms are too numerous for me to begin to describe. If we are to deliver an equality agenda, we must resource it properly. Schools and local authorities must be able to meet their own needs. There must also be a national education agenda. We think that there is a tension between those areas. There must be formulas for resolving that so that, for example, schools in disadvantaged areas can set priorities that other schools may not want to set, and so that local authorities can undertake initiatives that will ensure equality of opportunity throughout all schools. That has big resourcing implications.I propose to stop there, on the equal opportunities aspects of the bill. Clearly, there are other equal opportunities issues in Scottish education, particularly in relation to race, gender, and the feminisation of teaching. We can cover those issues in questions."
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Nicol: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 191296,
      "EditedText": "It does leave something to be desired. There has been a top-down approach, which is not something that we would support. Reading the indicators in the document, I am not sure that the inspectorate has entirely got to grips with the equality agenda. You are quite right, Malcolm. The agenda is not being pursued.It is not an expectation that the inspectorate will ask how a school has met the performance indicators in \"A Route to Equality and Fairness\", which has been available for a year or 18 months now. The inspection is underpinned by the performance indicators in \"How Good Is Our School?\"Measurement and delivery of equality in schools must always be considered at the heart of other measures of performance. That approach has been lacking in school inspections, and is likely still to be lacking for local authority inspections. When the Scottish Executive set up performance indicators, they should not be mechanistic, but should take account of the other aspects of authorities and schools that cannot be easily measured or cannot be measured without care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Veronica Rankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 191298,
      "EditedText": "In terms of equality and fairness?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 191313,
      "EditedText": "There should be a broader-based body than the current inspectorate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian McKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 191302,
      "EditedText": "Part of the difficulty that we have is that equal opportunities indicators are much like other indicators that we have tried to convince HMI and others to use. They are professional indicators, which show ways in which people teach and learn, rather than relying too much on number crunching indicators.That is a problem that we have all come across throughout the public sector. Because PIs were, in the main, developed from accountancy practices and from things that were easy to measure, whenever we come up against something that is more difficult to measure, people will default and look for the easy way out. The difficulty is that equal opportunity indicators are generally not easy to quantify, and require a wee bit more thought.A good example in another, recently developed area of education, educational psychology, was that of HMI which, with trade union support, has developed a whole range of professional indicators. Hardly a number is crunched in the whole book of PIs. We would propose that kind of thing for further development in other educational areas. One hopes that MSPs might return to it and to how the measures may be carried out when they consider the bill.I will say one last thing, just to contradict myself. One very good, ordinary number crunching measure, which we have argued in favour of for something like 10 years—we were trying to remember how long it has been before we came into the meeting—would be the establishment of race monitoring in the Scottish teaching profession. EIS has argued for it with the Scottish Office as was, and we have drawn it to the attention of the current Administration. It is something that must be brought to Scottish schools in the form in which it currently exists south of the border.In trying to monitor our own membership, to see if our own profile in such matters shaped up to that of teachers in general, we could not achieve that monitoring, because there was no reliable measure from the Scottish Executive, or from the Scottish Office before it, of race monitoring among teachers. We think that that would be an easy and—I admit—number-crunching measure that could be brought in. It should form part of the act when the bill is finally passed by the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 191306,
      "EditedText": "Elaine Smith's question was in two parts, the first of which was about the absence of teachers—and other representatives involved in education—in local authority policy development committees. I want to give you an opportunity to answer that part of the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 191308,
      "EditedText": "Could you expand on your concerns about the role of HMI?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 191309,
      "EditedText": "Our chief concern is that it operates as both policy former and assurer. The promotion of modern languages in primary schools, for example, was a policy that was devised by the inspectorate. At the time, the advice was that there would be difficulties; turning a willing volunteer in a primary school into a modern language teacher after 26 days of training was a serious expectation. The pilot scheme was remarkably well resourced—as is often the case with pilot schemes. Secondary school modern language teachers went out to support colleagues in primary education. However, when the pilot scheme was mainstreamed, the level of resources was not maintained and primary school teachers were left alone to deliver modern languages to primary 6 and primary 7.In last year's report \"Standards and Quality in Primary and Secondary Schools 1994-98: Modern Languages\", the inspectorate gave primary teachers a hammering, but stood back and admitted no responsibility. That is only one of several examples of our concerns about the inspectorate. As Veronica Rankin and Margaret Nicol have suggested, the inspectorate is thirled to performance indicators—I came through the process only a year ago—as the only measure of a school's performance. There are 22 performance indicators that are listed at the back of inspectors' reports. Those of us who are old hands at reading such reports check the back page to see how a school did on those 22 indicators. There is much more happening in schools than can be measured by those performance indicators. We believe that the inspectorate must broaden its vision of the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 191311,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, there are different types of report. There is the focused inspection in which, for their own purposes, inspectors may decide to examine language teaching in a primary school or history teaching in a secondary school, for example. There is also the broad—or standard—inspection, which covers a school's entire activity.We believe that inspectors should move towards a more supportive role, to increase morale in schools by highlighting the good that is going on. Those who interpret inspectors' reports tend to focus on the findings that indicate that a school is not performing well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Nicol: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 191316,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Our submission says that we will go down that same road only if it is assumed that, if local authorities are to be evaluated, that will be done by the inspectorate. We would be involving inspectors in everything. We should be examining the other options."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4585,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 191327,
      "EditedText": "There is always a follow-up inspection within 18 months to two years, at which the school, in consultation with the education authority, draws up an action plan to address the areas in which the school is regarded to be experiencing some difficulty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 191329,
      "EditedText": "It is known from inspectors' reports when the fault lies with the authority, as the inspectors will draw attention in the report to any lack of resourcing that gives rise to a situation in a school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 191337,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee. As we have indicated, we will ensure that you receive copies of our submission on special needs. We would be happy to be invited back to address those issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 191351,
      "EditedText": "As there have been many requests from organisations to appear before the committee, Martin Verity will put together a list of those organisations and a timetable so that their appearances fit in with our discussions on bills and so on. That paper will be available for the next committee meeting. Does any member have any questions or comments for Johann?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 191355,
      "EditedText": "Are there any questions or comments for Michael?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 191359,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but this committee can put in a request to use some of the committee time in Parliament for whatever it wants. I am not necessarily saying that we would want to use it for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 191363,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that the convener can simply put in a request to the bureau. There are 12 half days a year for committee business. Committees can request some of that time to initiate a debate or to bring forward a proposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 191364,
      "EditedText": "Mike Russell has lodged a motion to which the majority of MSPs have given their support. The issue is a matter for Westminster. What would the committee hope to achieve by debating the issue for a half day?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 191368,
      "EditedText": "At any time, conveners can raise with the bureau issues that arise. There are guidelines for debates in the chamber—they are reasonably strict because of the restricted time that is available. The committees may have 12 half days, but that does not mean that every committee has a half day. Opposition groups have time allocated, as does the Executive, and that time is already limited. I could raise anything at all with the bureau if the committee wants me to, but I cannot necessarily put in a bid for time in the chamber. However, I will seek clarification on the procedures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 191369,
      "EditedText": "I shall clarify that and notify members as soon as possible. I could also included it in our future work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 191372,
      "EditedText": "Johann Lamont asked about Positive Action in Housing. The Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee will be inviting that organisation to give evidence, probably in late January or early February."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 191377,
      "EditedText": "I should like to raise one other issue. It is another request for people to come to the committee. Last week, we had an opportunity to go to the international conference centre to meet the Commission for Racial Equality. Representatives from the Fife and Central Scotland racial equality councils were there. They would like to come to our committee. They do not mean just their own groups, which represent specific areas of Scotland—they want all the racial equality councils to be involved.I do not know whether the best way to do that would be to get all the councils along at one time, or whether the race reporter's group should invite a delegation and bring information to the committee. I am open to suggestions on how to handle it.Do you think that it would be best if representatives of those organisations came to the full committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 191378,
      "EditedText": "To give evidence or as visitors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 191379,
      "EditedText": "To give evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 191391,
      "EditedText": "Nora Radcliffe has gone, so we will move on to the next item on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4587,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ID": 4587,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 191395,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:02."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.6038182+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 191328,
      "EditedText": "Would the inspector, in that case, be able to refer directly to resources and comment on whether they were adequate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.2853385+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4586,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 4586,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 191347,
      "EditedText": "My primary concern was missing a committee meeting, especially given that it is the last committee meeting before the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.0196396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1036
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4585,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4585,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 191261,
      "EditedText": "We have discussed the study to which you refer at previous meetings. The statistics are shocking and we should all take notice of them. On page 2 of your document you mention performance indicators. Can a figure be put on the reduction of bullying? Could such a performance indicator include a quantitative element?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4637465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 23 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2154,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2154,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 106085,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the public meeting at 09:43"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 106089,
      "EditedText": "As the committee will know, we have applied to the SAC for advancement funding, which is an important development for us. That will mean that we can change the way in which we work and deploy our musicians and resources around Scotland. If our bid is successful, we will be ahead of all other UK orchestras in our strategy.One of our main worries is that the financial benefits that come to the organisation will be as nothing if our grant is not index linked, as the grants of the other national companies are. The money that we receive might be eaten up immediately by inflation. The other problem is that, because of previous deficits, we experience a serious cash-flow problem towards the end of every year. Unless we address that soon, we will have on-going cash-flow problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C106091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 106091,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the educational aspect of the work of the RSNO. As you said, there was a report in The Herald this morning, although I have not read it yet—I am not very good in the morning. You mentioned that you were doing work in schools. It is important to us that children benefit from that work. Tell us some more about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 106097,
      "EditedText": "I have not thought of other ways in which it might be done, but the situation is worsened by the carrying of a deficit from year to year. We have no reserves at all and have no capital invested anywhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 106098,
      "EditedText": "I want to explore the issue of the accumulated deficits. Would you expand on that for us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 106104,
      "EditedText": "I think that that question would be better directed to the SAC."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 106105,
      "EditedText": "Have you asked that question of the SAC?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 106112,
      "EditedText": "The matter is still under review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 106113,
      "EditedText": "As you know, we are conducting an inquiry into all the national companies and the possibility of establishing a national theatre. If the size of the cake for the national companies is not increased, the national theatre may be resourced only through standstill funding for all the companies, or there may even be a slight reduction. How would you react to those proposals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 106116,
      "EditedText": "There was a review into that when the merger of the other companies was considered. The conclusion was reached that such a merger was not a good idea.I do not know whether members are aware of the situation in Bournemouth, where the chamber orchestra and the symphony orchestra have been merged. The only solution there to the long-term crisis is to close down the chamber orchestra. We certainly would not want that to happen here. The synergies between the orchestral companies are much less obvious than those between the opera and ballet companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 106118,
      "EditedText": "It gives a good prospect of being able to revise radically the way in which we work and approach matters, but such funding is not guaranteed, as we have to compete for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 106120,
      "EditedText": "The board examined two projections for next year, one of which shows a moderate deficit for the year on the current basis. With advancement funding, which will start to kick in halfway through next year, we can convert that into a small surplus; the following year, it will begin to show benefits that we can feed back into the artistic programme and into the operation of the company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 106122,
      "EditedText": "On expenditure, our forecasts are very accurate. Income figures are always targets, however, and we meet them sometimes well and sometimes less well. Income is much more difficult to predict, but we could pretty much tell you on 1 April exactly what the expenditure would be for the year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 106124,
      "EditedText": "Last year, ticket income was down by 10 per cent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 106128,
      "EditedText": "So you believe that you have a tight financial system. Would you describe yourself as a financially well-managed company?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 106129,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we are now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 106137,
      "EditedText": "Has it encouraged others to exceed their budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 106138,
      "EditedText": "I do not know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 106139,
      "EditedText": "You do not know? You observe the arts scene in Scotland closely, so do you think that the Scottish Arts Council has encouraged others?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 106141,
      "EditedText": "Are you treated in the same way as the opera company? Do you feel that the ethos is the same for you, the chamber orchestra and the ballet company?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 106143,
      "EditedText": "Is there something intrinsic to the opera company—something that you do not share—that encourages it to go over budget? Everyone talks about the expense of opera. Is there something about the opera company that means that its deficits are bound to be larger than yours?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106149",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 106149,
      "EditedText": "You say that, with regret, you have cut your cloth and now do not do as much innovative work or go abroad. How important is that for the long-term reputation of the orchestra? I know that your recording profile is high, but will it remain so if you do not go abroad?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 106150,
      "EditedText": "Those issues are slightly different. It is great for the orchestra to go abroad and be a cultural ambassador for Scotland. Scotland's reputation in the music world, particularly in America, is made largely through the recording and touring profiles of the two orchestras. That is regrettable, but it could be seen as a slight luxury.As for the repertoire, it is essential that we can perform innovative work by Scottish composers and by composers from around the world. Our discovery series included premiers of works from across the world—those pieces had never been heard in Scotland before. It is immensely regrettable that we had to cut that this year. It means that we are starving the artistic product and not investing in the future. One of the functions of a company such as ours is not only to employ musicians who are resident in Scotland but to use composers and others who write for orchestras of our kind. We were unhappy about having to cut that this year—such activity is not a luxury, but an essential part of our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 106151,
      "EditedText": "I am conscious of time, so we will make this the last question in this section of the evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 106162,
      "EditedText": "The main way in which we can inspire confidence is by ensuring that we work to our budgets and do not overspend. I hope that, in the longer term, we will be seen to be a good organisation that is worthy of support by individuals, by companies and, above all, by Government and the Scottish Arts Council, our major funders. We must gain confidence as we progress and we will do that by being an honest, hard-working group, just as we would do in business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 106163,
      "EditedText": "That is an admirable answer. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 106164,
      "EditedText": "By our fruits will you know us, and by the quality of our concert and education work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 106166,
      "EditedText": "So it is the competition that keeps you sharp, as well as a responsible attitude to the use of public money that you not only follow, but commend to others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 106175,
      "EditedText": "I would like to address the education and outreach work that you are doing. From what we have heard from the RSNO, it appears that that company is oriented towards teachers and education. Your company sounds much more community oriented. Together, your companies seem to cover the spectrum in taking music out to people and in encouraging them to develop their own abilities. The RSNO said that education was not a core function and so was not funded by the Scottish Arts Council. That makes the RSNO dependent on project funding from local authorities. Is the Scottish Chamber Orchestra in a similar situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 106173,
      "EditedText": "I will not repeat the question that I asked of the RSNO; I will take it as read that the business of annualising budgets causes the SCO some operational difficulty. I think that it was Simon Crookall who said that ambition costs money. Equally, I am aware that advocates of Scottish Opera and other bodies see the national companies as cultural flagships abroad. I noted with interest that the volume of money that you have taken in from overseas engagements amounts to more than £300,000, which is laudable. Taking all that in the round, I would like to pick up on what you said about risk capital. I have some experience of trying to run a company with little or no capital, so I appreciate the difficulties that are involved. To enable the national companies to compete ambitiously, do you think that the Scottish Executive should itself take a risk and set up a risk capital partnership between the national companies and the private sector, for example?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 106178,
      "EditedText": "I agree completely. I do not think that anyone disagrees about the importance of the work. As such project work is a much more recent manifestation of an orchestra's work, it must be pulled up the agenda and that should be reflected in the resources that are allocated to it. Both orchestras, philosophically, would say that education is as important as any other work that we do. However, the current distribution of resources does not reflect that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 106180,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 106182,
      "EditedText": "We hope that that income will remain constant this year. As with the other national companies, our local authority revenue funding has dropped considerably. About three years ago, it was £90,000; since then, that figure has halved. There have been talks between the national companies and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, and we are trying to find a way in which at least to maintain that level of funding. For us all, the drop in funding has been a significant setback over the past two or three years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 106184,
      "EditedText": "The market is highly competitive; it is also, in some ways, fickle. It is possible, over two or three years, to do rather well, but if, for any reason, a major relationship with a company stops, an orchestra can be caught cold. The drop in this year's figure reflects the end of a successful relationship that we had over four years with a company that has moved on to other things. It is not always easy to replace such a relationship. Our constant aim is to broaden the base of sponsorship so that we are not too reliant on a limited number of companies. That will mean that any changes can be sustained. We have an increasingly active SCO trust, which is a group predominantly of businessmen who are working on our behalf to raise money. We hope that, next year, we can at least sustain this year's income, if not increase it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 106186,
      "EditedText": "The festival fireworks event is an interesting hybrid. It was started by the SCO and we still technically own it, as we manage the project. The sponsorship relationship is between the Bank of Scotland and us, but we have a contract with the Edinburgh international festival to provide the event. In a sense, it has evolved as a three-way partnership. That said, the Bank of Scotland picks up the tab for the event, which is phenomenally expensive. I am giving no secrets away in saying that the fireworks cost much more than we do. It is a great event, but it is unique. We would like to undertake more outdoor events, which, if the technology and the weather allow, would be a possibility. The frequency of such events has increased in Scotland in recent years, and other orchestras have undertaken outdoor events at Hopetoun House and similar venues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 106191,
      "EditedText": "It must be remembered that we are talking about all the national companies. I want to ask a couple of questions that might have reverberations outside your sphere. First, I am interested in the idea of the freelance orchestra. You talked about the need to keep the programme going to give orchestra members enough work. How much would be saved if an organisation such as Scottish Opera could employ its orchestra on a freelance basis? Secondly, would either of you like a permanent home, or would you regard property as a millstone around your neck?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106192",
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      "ID": 531
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 106192,
      "EditedText": "Roy will answer the first question and I shall answer the second."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 106193,
      "EditedText": "There is no right or wrong answer to whether an orchestra should be on contract; it depends on what is being delivered. It is no accident that, by and large, chamber orchestras in Britain have tended to be freelance, whereas symphony orchestras—with the exception of the situation in London—have tended to be contracted. Different kinds of activities are delivered and different kinds of players are attracted. Similarly, opera orchestras tend to be salaried. I do not have an easy answer to the question whether it would be better for such an orchestra to be freelance. My initial reaction is that the present structure is the appropriate one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 106199,
      "EditedText": "That is a relief."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 106201,
      "EditedText": "The biggest variable in our accounts is, of course, the artistic activity. We budget, in considerable detail, concert by concert, and then make specific provision for things such as education, touring and so on, which may be more speculative. Our financial account reporting is quarterly to the board and monthly internally. Because of that we feel that we have a fairly tight control over the financing.The major contrast between the SCO and the three other national companies is that our fixed costs make up a relatively small proportion of our overall budget. The downside of that is that our players are vulnerable. Our greatest source of flexibility lies in the fact that our orchestra is freelance, so if we cannot afford to do work, we do not do it. That manifests itself in weeks when members of the orchestra do not get paid. They obviously have the freedom and flexibility during those times to go off and undertake other work, and many of them do. However, many times they cannot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106202",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 106202,
      "EditedText": "I understand that; but if one looks at the detail of your accounts, one sees that, for instance, between 1998 and 1999, you marginally reduced your administration expenses. That was presumably a conscious piece of management on your part to keep those expenses at a fixed level, and at the lowest level possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 106204,
      "EditedText": "How do you manage it?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 106207,
      "EditedText": "They can, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 106209,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 106211,
      "EditedText": "The signals that we have had from the SAC—in particular, back in May, when we received indications and advice on funding levels for the next couple of years—are that it feels that we are a well managed company that shows enterprise and maintains high artistic standards. It was anxious to reflect that in the support that it gave us. We appreciate that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 106212,
      "EditedText": "One of the most impressive things about your programme is that it is very wide-ranging—not just geographically, but in the core sense, artistically. You range right across the spectrum of work.Presumably you are familiar with composer James MacMillan's arguments that Scotland today is a country that is artistically frozen. You tend to show the antithesis of that; you tend to show the country as artistically warm and vibrant. I am not asking you to praise yourselves, but do you not think that your method of operation is one that might have implications for others?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 106214,
      "EditedText": "Mr Miller and Mr Crookall, you were essentially saying that you had had to drop that flexibility recently—you had to give up the discovery series, and you complain in your submission today that your range has narrowed. What is the difference between the SCO and the SNO?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 106216,
      "EditedText": "Do you regret that you do not have the flexibility that the Scottish Chamber Orchestra has?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 106219,
      "EditedText": "That is a very fair statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 106220,
      "EditedText": "This all comes back to whether the basic level of funding is correct. If one is up even a little bit, and one is down even a little bit, it all goes straight into the bottom line, or it goes into—in our case—what we can afford to perform. One has to look at the major source of funding, which is Government funding now, and ask oneself whether the national companies are getting the correct funding.Two or three years ago, the national companies group went into this in great detail; two or three years later, it appears that at least one of them was substantially wrong. We think that, to do what Scotland requires, we require additional funding. One has to look at the basic levels of funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 106221,
      "EditedText": "Today in the committee we have one company, the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, that is flexible and is receiving increased Arts Council funding; and another company, the Royal Scottish National Orchestra, that needs the money more but has been consistently refused increases. I am not asking anyone to account for that, because you do not make the decisions, but I am suggesting that that seems to be a slightly strange approach from the Arts Council. Do you have any ideas on why that is?None whatsoever?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 118
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 106228,
      "EditedText": "I am not a matchmaker, so I could not tell you, but you know that there is constant speculation that, to make more of their resources, organisations will have to come together. I am not convinced by that, but there is still speculation about a merger. Mr Crookall talked about a merger that might have happened but was rejected. What are your views on that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106229",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "ID": 118
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 106229,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back a step. For my sins, I am an endangered species—I am a chairman who has been in post for a few years. I have been through four or five years of exercises involving collaborations and discussions—whether orchestras should go here, there or wherever. All sorts of things have been looked at.One interesting thing that emerged was that the benefit of the four national companies sitting and discussing our problems together was quite powerful. We were able to persuade the minister to listen to us directly. That was important in coming to the settlement from which we all benefited just over a year ago.During the period of the national companies working group, I think it was Coopers and Lybrand that looked into the possibility of the opera and ballet collaborating and sharing various facilities such as scene-making and dressmaking. It also looked closely at the RSNO and us, asking whether there were any parts of our administration that we could do more effectively by sharing them. Its conclusion was that any savings would be minimal.You are perhaps hinting that a merger should be more than that. We have two orchestras: one historic orchestra with a long tradition and a great reputation; and the new person on the block, with a different style and way of operating. I think and hope that we are mutually beneficial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 106233,
      "EditedText": "I welcome our witnesses. Representatives from the Musicians Union, Equity and the Broadcasting, Entertainment, Cinematograph and Theatre Union will make a few opening remarks before we ask questions.I thank Mr Smith for making the effort to come; I know that he had a prior engagement and has to leave early."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul McManus: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 106243,
      "EditedText": "I think that the problems are intrinsic to the SAC. The companies—especially Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet—have been denied the opportunity to run themselves. Their boards have been meaningless for the past couple of years. The SAC is in the middle, trying to deliver what the Scottish Executive—and, previously, the Scottish Office—wants. It has effectively been acting as a board of the national companies. There is no place for that—the structure is wrong. If the Government is going to fund the national companies, we should do away with the middle man; it is an unnecessary cost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "William Sweeney (Musicians Union): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 106244,
      "EditedText": "I am chair of the Scottish council of the Musicians Union and I am a professional composer. I want to come in on the Scottish Arts Council question. Because I was a member of its music committee for about five years, I have some sympathy with the predicament in which the SAC's members find themselves, although that fund of sympathy is not inexhaustible. I was on that committee about six years ago and, in my experience, the flexibility and ability of the art form committees was eroded over a period, in favour of a centralisation of power towards the officers of the SAC and the SAC itself.I feel that that has played some part in the national companies' feeling straitjacketed. I remain agnostic on whether the Scottish Arts Council or the Scottish Executive is the best channel for the funds, but I am convinced that the annual competition for funds is a major source of instability. Long-term thinking has to take precedence over that. There is also instability in relation to the reliance on project funding, which creates its own bureaucracy. I just wanted to make those comments in support of my colleagues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul McManus (Broadcasting, Entertainment, Cinematograph and Theatre Union): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 106237,
      "EditedText": "I am Paul McManus, Scottish organiser for BECTU. As Equity said, most of our comments are in the written submission. I am aware of the time so I will make a couple of very brief points.It will come as no surprise that BECTU thinks that there is systematic and structural underfunding across the arts in Scotland and particularly in the national companies. We are aware that the Scottish Arts Council's funding set-up causes tensions between the national companies and the other companies it funds. The tensions have recently become more apparent because of local authority reorganisation, which has decimated the arts. That situation badly needs to be addressed. We welcome the examination of the national cultural strategy, which is not before time.Despite saying that there is systematic and structural underfunding, we recognise the need for fiscal efficiency. The public needs to have confidence and pride in the national companies, which must operate throughout Scotland and internationally. The knock-on economic benefits from our national companies going abroad are well known—companies from abroad are attracted to investing in this country with its vibrant cultural scene. Without such a scene, such investment will not happen.Largely because of the need for fiscal efficiency, our members decided to enter positively into merger discussions. Certain bodies had hashed and bashed various merger ideas about for years, and eventually arrived at a proposal that some of us had suggested from the beginning would be the logical place to start. However, given the various rammies and stushies going on behind the scenes, it seemed as if BECTU was the only organisation interested in progressing the merger. That came as no surprise to us, but we should pause to think about the almost 200 members of staff who were worried about their mortgages, jobs and bills. Throughout the months of negotiation, they had been up and down wondering whose jobs were going.Two meetings before the deal was done, the chief executive of Scottish Opera was whipped away because of more behind-the-scenes stushies and rammies. Our members were told that all bets were off for the next few months while the SAC and the Scottish Executive sorted themselves out. That is no way to treat people who take pride in providing a national service.I will also echo Equity's sentiments about the SAC. I have been amazed at some of the comments from the two orchestras about their treatment by the SAC. Nobody seems to know what the SAC's policies are, and I am amazed that the in-depth and on-going talks between the four national companies have not given those companies a clue about those policies. One minute, a company that is fiscally efficient is sacked; the next minute, a company that runs up a huge overdraft is rewarded. That is no way to treat national companies, arts organisations and the people of Scotland, who deserve to know the Parliament's policies and to know that there is direct and efficient control over national companies. As our members are expected to deliver a high-quality service, it is only fair that the bodies that are responsible for funding national companies do the same.Finally, I wholeheartedly endorse Lorne Boswell's comments about a national theatre. Although it is time that we had a national theatre company for Scotland—for the same reasons that we need the other national companies—there is no point in trying to fit that company into existing funding arrangements. Scotland does not need another second-rate effort at a national theatre company. If there is a genuine commitment to funding such a company, that is great, because Scotland badly needs it. Otherwise, there is no point in trying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 106246,
      "EditedText": "Equity makes an interesting point, in paragraph 6 of its submission, on the financial management of Scottish Opera. It states that\"Equity has three main concerns.\"The first of those is\"that the last finance director was asked to leave in February 1999 and that her job has not been filled since.\"From the papers that we received last week, it was clear that the cash flow management went completely out of control in April. I believe that the finance director left in March. However, it seemed that the finance director had left of her own free will. At no point was it suggested that she had been asked to leave. Can you enlighten us further on the circumstances behind her departure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 106248,
      "EditedText": "Of course, I understand that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 106252,
      "EditedText": "Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 106262,
      "EditedText": "In the papers submitted by the three unions, it seems unanimous that you all support the merger. Why do you support the merger so strongly when a large number of question marks remain? One question mark is over the financial operation and competence of Scottish Opera; a second relates to the mismatch between Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet, especially in wages and conditions, without—as far as we can gather from the evidence that we heard last week—any clear indication that the boards intend to address the mismatch in a meaningful fashion; and a third relates to the strong emerging evidence, of which this committee will hear more, of a growing disquiet within the two companies about allowing the merger to proceed. Why do the unions remain firmly committed to the merger?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 106263,
      "EditedText": "The problems with the national companies have been there for some time. I suspect that they go back to the early 1990s. Our members at Scottish Opera have been threatened with being forced to go part time; our members at Scottish Ballet have been threatened, in the turmoil, with not having a job. We have taken the line that, to ensure political support for the companies, which is essential for their continuation, a merger may be the necessary price to be paid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 106265,
      "EditedText": "The survival of the companies is an act of political will. That is the reality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 106270,
      "EditedText": "No, that is not yet in place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 106272,
      "EditedText": "The case that all the unions have made for the national theatre is taken as read. We will explore that next week. There is a good point about structural underfunding and the Theatre Royal, which must be addressed.I have one final question. Nobody can avoid the fact that £2.1 million was necessary to save people's jobs and to allow Scottish Opera to continue. However, that was the 11th piece of special deficit funding in 32 years. As organisations that are deeply involved in the arts in Scotland, do you accept that unless there is a radical change in the financial management of Scottish Opera, and a radical reconsideration of the way in which national companies are funded, not only can we not establish a national theatre, but the whole question of public subsidy of the arts, which we all support, is thrown into public disrepute? That is damaging for your members. What steps are you taking to address that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 106276,
      "EditedText": "I want to reinforce Paul McManus's remarks. The problem is the policy vacuum within which the Scottish Arts Council works. What is its policy? Why do we fund national companies and what do we expect of them? Those questions are crucial. The current administration was elected on a manifesto that included education and social inclusion. Had Scottish Opera overspent on its education work to the tune of £3 million, I think we would all be celebrating. I am not sure where it overspent, to be honest. We must have absolute clarity as to why we fund national companies and what we want them to achieve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Drew McFarlane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 106277,
      "EditedText": "Public subsidy of the arts is brought into public disrepute and other arts organisations see that, every time Scottish Opera has a financial crisis, out from behind the SAC comes a helping hand—what is ostensibly an arm's-length body is no longer that. For other organisations, that beggars belief, as that opportunity never comes their way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 106281,
      "EditedText": "That is something that we wanted to pursue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 106283,
      "EditedText": "Many of us support that view, particularly with regard to traditional arts. Traditional artists are raising a lot of questions about the paucity of resources, and that is a matter that we must address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 106284,
      "EditedText": "Cathy, do you have a question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C106287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 106287,
      "EditedText": "I like the idea that it should be complementary. Do you think that the national theatre would have a role in wider community arts and education projects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 106303,
      "EditedText": "Is it the simple fact that baseline funding is inadequate to fulfil the vision that has been set for the national companies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "William Sweeney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 106304,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "William Sweeney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 106308,
      "EditedText": "Things are getting to that stage. I was brought up at school to believe that \"Catch 22\" was a novel, but I have recently discovered that it is a documentary. This is an example of that. A company can survive as an opera company only by not doing operas. Scottish Opera is an inherently huge and unmanageable operation. I was once involved with an opera production by a small company. The company nearly went under owing to a technical problem outwith anyone's control—an interruption to the electronic supply because the costs incurred were so expensive in relation to the company's other activities. I can understand people baulking at the figures involved in putting on performances, but it takes a lot of money to do things properly, even if productions are imaginative, using minimalist sets and decor. The operatic and musical worlds are full of stories of directors adding several hundred thousand pounds to performance costs because they insist on using leather instead of PVC. The stories exist, but that group is inherently difficult to manage. Nevertheless, many countries comparable to Scotland across Europe and the world seem to manage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 106311,
      "EditedText": "I thank the witnesses both for their written presentations and for their answers to our questions, which were appreciated. As they know, we will have further deliberations next week and, eventually, we will come to some conclusions about the evidence that we have heard over the past few weeks. I thank them again for their attendance.As the committee meeting will continue, will those people who are leaving please do so quietly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 106312,
      "EditedText": "The next item is the committee's inquiry into special educational needs, a paper on which has been circulated. Do members have any comments or questions? Are we agreed that the paper's recommendations are the way forward and that the time scale is in order?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 106313,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that we introduced the item primarily because of the consideration of the Riddell report. We should clarify exactly the report's implications for education providers. I understand that they are expected to make changes by March 2000, although our inquiry report will not come out until late June 2000, which might be after they have had to implement budgetary changes. I have already received representations from a number of institutions saying that they do not think that there is adequate time to discuss the Riddell report. They would prefer it if the changes that they will have to implement were put off for a year, so that bodies such as this committee could examine the report's implications. We need to ascertain exactly what the Executive's planned changes are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 106317,
      "EditedText": "Okay. I share that concern as well. We are not sure who will take a lead on the Riddell report, once the consultation exercise has finished. Can we make some inquiries this week and come back to the committee next week with more definite guidance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 106322,
      "EditedText": "In the second paragraph of section 3, the paper refers to \"main voluntary sector bodies\". I presume that we are talking about the grant-aided schools that deliver a great deal of special educational needs provision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 106325,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda deals with reporters' remits. Each of the members who are conducting special inquiries has met Gillian Baxendine to discuss remits and support. Fiona McLeod left me a message to say that she was concerned about the support that was available from the Scottish Parliament information centre and in the form of allowances. I will let Gillian say a few words about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 529.0,
      "ContributionID": 106343,
      "EditedText": "It was suggested in our brief discussion at the beginning of this meeting that we should talk about how that will be handled next week. That will be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2157,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 106347,
      "EditedText": "As I have already said privately to the convener, it strikes me that a number of organisations, although they are not considered national companies, could offer us some insight into how things might work. For instance, it might be useful to compare the operation and funding of the national companies with that of the National Youth Orchestra for Scotland and the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra, particularly in light of the comment about a possible merger a long time ago. I am also concerned that, although we are keen to talk about the encouraging work that is being done in education, that might be seen as another source of a budget to make up for a lack in budgets elsewhere. If we are to encourage national companies to undertake more educational work, we need to think about the implications for organisations that already undertake a great deal of educational work, such as the National Youth Orchestra and various theatre workshop companies. Although we might not have time to hear from all those organisations, we could at least ask for written submissions from some of them about their roles and how they operate, so that we can take account of it in our deliberations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2157,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 106349,
      "EditedText": "Whether they have or not, we will have to draw some conclusions about the operation of these companies and about how they should operate in future. We should not become too diffuse on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 106155,
      "EditedText": "We have been told that we can retain it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106156",
    "Meeting": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 106156,
      "EditedText": "On this occasion?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106157",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 106157,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Mind you, we have not made a surplus yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106158",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 106158,
      "EditedText": "As far as I am aware, there is no problem about retaining surpluses annually; the problem is that we do not make them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106159",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 106159,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, before 1980, the orchestra often worked with Scottish Opera. If Scottish Opera offered to put on Wagner's Ring cycle, for example, as a co-production, would you consider that as a way of bringing in revenue and keeping revenue in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106160",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 106160,
      "EditedText": "As you will know, the national companies working group considered that. There was a scheduling problem at the time but, in principle, there was no objection to the orchestra allocating substantial blocks of time to play for the opera and the ballet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106165",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 106165,
      "EditedText": "That is what we believe in. We believe that the other high-risk strategy puts 108 people's jobs on the line. Unlike opera or ballet, we have competitors close by in the form of the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106168",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 106168,
      "EditedText": "That could have been ruled as putting words in people's mouths, but never mind."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C106174",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 106174,
      "EditedText": "That is an innovative idea and I would like to think that you could persuade your colleagues to adopt it. I do not know that one could set up a fund that aimed to throw off a return to private sector investors—I would have to think a wee bit more about that. If one could draw on the good will of companies that support the organisations, matching private funding with lottery funding or with money from the Scottish Executive, that would be a brilliant idea. The Government invests in a variety of Scottish industries to encourage them. I know that it is now setting up a biotechnology fund, but I do not want to draw comparisons with that highly risky business, which has the potential to be fabulously successful. There are different kinds of pay-off in terms of local employment and there is a tremendous trickle-down effect when people come to work for the RSNO or the SCO, live here and become involved in education. Even when they stop working for us, those people are still a resource. I am obviously a fan of our industry, but I believe that it is certainly worth investing in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106171",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "ID": 118
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Macdonald (Scottish Chamber Orchestra): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 106171,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for inviting us to take part in this morning's discussion. I assume that members have seen the brief notes that we have prepared, which give a thumbnail sketch of various facets of the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, including some of the places that we have visited recently, excerpts from the accounts and a description of what we are doing in this our 25th year.As a national company, we strongly believe that the Scottish Chamber Orchestra belongs to Scotland. The public sector, through the Scottish Arts Council, is our largest financial stakeholder. We therefore have a strong bond with Scotland and a strong duty to the people of Scotland to perform in all corners of the country. The SCO is a highly flexible orchestral resource with an extremely wide repertoire. In essence, it is a classical symphony orchestra, similar in size to the orchestras for which Mozart and Beethoven wrote, and comparable with the enhanced orchestra for which Brahms and many of the modern composers wrote. It can go to all corners of Scotland and every year we do a three-week tour to the Highlands. During the winter season, we leave the central belt to perform in Aberdeen, St Andrews, Inverness and other towns such as Ayr and Dumfries. A key part of our flexibility is that our players, although they are members of the orchestra, are freelance. That means that they get paid when they play and, when they are not playing, they do not get paid, which creates its own pressures. That flexibility means that the SCO has had to be an effective, tight, lean organisation, responding to the market and using the resources that are available. However, the SCO faces other pressures. Given the players' freelance status, there is a constant need to find work to protect players' earnings and to attract the best players from Scotland and beyond. Through the Scottish Arts Council, we are funded for about seven or eight months of the year, during which time we do our winter season and our Highland tour. For the rest of the year, we need to be entrepreneurial and to fill the balance by selling the orchestra to festivals. This year, as in most years, we were fortunate to be asked to appear at the Edinburgh international festival. An interesting example of the orchestra's flexibility is that, this year, it gave seven programmes of music at the festival, all of them different. The players were working, rehearsing or playing every day throughout the three weeks—if the work is there, they will do it. We also sell the orchestra overseas, and we are proud of being a musical ambassador for our country. We are heading off to Hong Kong in March and to France and Italy later in the year. There is great competition for such work, which is an essential part of our work load. Recording is an important activity for us, as it is for our friends in the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. One way or another, we have spent about £400,000 on recordings during the past few years. We have made six opera recordings and recordings of all the Brahms symphonies, which were nominated for Grammy awards. Those recordings had to be financed through private donations—by a legacy in one case—and by royalties. However, royalties take a long time to come through.Throughout its life, the SCO has shown its commitment to new music. We have commissioned more than 60 pieces in our short life, most of them from Scottish composers. In the mid 1980s, we were pioneers in education and development. I well remember Roy McEwan's predecessor sitting with a white sheet of paper and persuading some of the orchestra's more senior musicians that we had to get out into the community. We involve not only the young, who get a lot of arts education attention, but older people and those who cannot easily access the arts or who have certain disadvantages in life. That thread of access and excellence runs through all our work—education and access are not just token words.I do not want to leave the committee with the impression that the SCO, with tight, flexible management, will always get by. There is a view that all one needs to do to overcome a financial problem is to drop a concert, but that is not a satisfactory answer in the long term. If we reduce the amount of work that we do, we will lose the quality players who are essential to a quality orchestra. As in any field, it is the quality people who can move and will move, particularly when London is just on our doorstep and offers one of the largest freelance markets in the world. Like our friends in the RSNO, we intend to keep our hands firmly on the purse strings and to run our orchestra as toughly and tightly as possible. However, running an entrepreneurial organisation with no risk capital can be a nail-biting exercise. Mr Welsh referred to accumulated deficits—ours is £150,000. That is set off on our balance sheet by a small endowment fund that, strictly speaking, should be outside the organisation's accounts, as it contains the proceeds from the sale of our office a few years ago. We now have the free use of an office, but we have earmarked that money in case we need to get ourselves another office. The figures therefore paint a slightly false picture. The lack of risk capital is common to every orchestra in Britain, so none of us is unique in that respect. However, as James Miller and I know, running any kind of business on nil capital is a dangerous exercise. If we want our organisations to be exciting, we must take some risks and try new things. New plans do not always work, in music or in other businesses. For example, Marks and Spencer has already announced two or three profit warnings this year—it happens to many organisations that are presumed to be the best. Two or three years ago, in a paper to the Scottish Arts Council, I suggested that it should consider using the lottery to capitalise our national companies. Investing in the capital and goodwill of an organisation such as the RSNO or the SCO is every bit as valid as investing in bricks and mortar. Over a long period, the SAC could build up around the national companies a little flesh on which they could rely to take some risks. I would like to resubmit my paper. When I wrote it in 1996, one of its premises was that funds would be put behind a brick wall, so to speak, in an endowment fund managed by professional fund managers. It would be interesting to know what might have happened to the money over that period. That might be one way of putting ourselves in a position in which we could put some flesh on our bones. The SCO is a terrific, ambitious resource, in terms of the performing members and the management. I believe that, with the right support, we can deliver more to all parts of Scotland. There are more places that we would like to visit more often and, like the RSNO, we would like to develop our educational schemes, but that will take resources. We are proud to represent our country in exciting places overseas. Being Scottish in New York is good fun."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106172",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 106172,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. On behalf of the committee, I accept your offer to resubmit your 1996 paper. We would be grateful for any suggestions on how we can improve the situation, so perhaps you could forward it to us."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106177",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
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      "EditedText": "I would be interested to follow through this idea of core funding. Magnus Linklater has made it clear, at our meeting last week and in press reports that I have read, that he thinks that the education and outreach work of the national companies is important. If it is important, we should fund it correctly. The Scottish Executive believes in social inclusion, and if this is a way of involving young people who would not normally have access to music, we should consider how such project work is funded."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C106179",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 106179,
      "EditedText": "Both companies would obviously appreciate it if that were reflected more substantially."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 106181,
      "EditedText": "Your revenue account for this year shows a small drop in local authority income. Are you budgeting for this year with a continued drop in that income in mind?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106183",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 106183,
      "EditedText": "Similarly, private sector sponsorship and donations have dropped. Obviously, that sum is not split into sponsorship and donations, but those contributions are grouped together. Can you tell me how you foresee the coming year? Does the drop in that income reflect the competition in the sponsorship market?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106187",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 106187,
      "EditedText": "I pick up on a point that you made earlier, which Brian Monteith mentioned in the previous exchange. Local government reorganisation since 1996 has significantly affected revenues for both your companies and has presumably impacted on the range of partnership projects in local authority areas. From a local authority perspective, it would always be a reasonably easy call to cut discretionary spending rather than what is perceived as essential spending. In that context, do you feel that, if the Scottish Executive wants cultural activity to be spread to areas that are socially excluded, it should pay directly for it?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106190",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
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      "EditedText": "One of the challenges for the companies has been the change in local authority contributions from revenue funding to project funding. Local authority funding is available for companies such as ours. However, whereas in the past that was viewed as a contribution to a national resource, nowadays it is viewed as a project fund that requires work in return. Our method, through advancement funding, is to turn the project funding back into revenue funding to fund the core costs of the orchestra. The problem is circular. I do not think that the local authorities are not committed to the national companies. However, they want work to happen in their areas, and do not want to contribute to something that is happening only in the main cities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106194",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 106194,
      "EditedText": "Mr Macdonald, do you want to answer the question on property?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C106195",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Macdonald: ",
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      "ContributionID": 106195,
      "EditedText": "Yes. You have given me an opportunity to say something about halls. We are frustrated with the performing space that is available in Edinburgh and Glasgow. The Queen's Hall has been a fine hall for us to grow in, but much of our programme now needs a larger space—ideally something between the Usher Hall and the Queen's Hall—which would also increase our attraction to sponsors. In the business of putting on concerts in the 21st century, the hardware counts as much as the software. There are many competing attractions, which poses a challenge for orchestral business—we must consider putting concerts on at different times and in different forms. A modern, purpose-built space would be wonderful. The City Hall in Glasgow is a super hall. Acoustically, it is ideal. Sadly, in the eyes of the citizens of Glasgow, it is a Cinderella hall, and we find it difficult to attract sponsors for concerts there. Those factors are slightly inhibiting. I am not complaining about them; they are facts that we must live with."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106196",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 106196,
      "EditedText": "Mr Crookall, Mr Miller, would you like to respond to that?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106198",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 106198,
      "EditedText": "I was not actually suggesting that you should do so."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C106203",
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      "ID": 531
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 106203,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106213",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 106213,
      "EditedText": "A chamber orchestra is often thought of as an orchestra with a narrow repertoire and a narrow range of activities, but we are nothing of the sort. We are an orchestra that can demonstrate a flexibility that allows us to cover music that spans 400 years. I give credit to my predecessor and his predecessor for the fact that the philosophy of the orchestra is very much grounded in new music and new ways of working, as much as in the natural classical repertoire that the orchestra focuses on as its core.In the long term, our flexibility may be something that others look to."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106215",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
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      "ContributionID": 106215,
      "EditedText": "Size is a very important part of that. For us, the difference between a Hollywood film concert that we did at the weekend and a discovery concert that we did last year could be £15,000 in box office income. When that is multiplied several times, it has devastating effect on the balance sheet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "ID": 118
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 106222,
      "EditedText": "I cannot—"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106223",
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      "ID": 531
    },
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
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      "EditedText": "I think that that is something we will need to explore further with the Arts Council. The committee is aware that the Arts Council is returning to give evidence—originally to discuss the national theatre, but we have indicated that we would like to hear some more general comments on issues that have arisen both last week and this week. Perhaps, Mike, you will want to pursue your question at that stage."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106226",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 106226,
      "EditedText": "I understand; and I apologise—I was called away on an urgent matter.I want to pursue the issue of funding. You are operating effectively within your resources; you are gathering impressive resources from overseas recording royalties—I notice that, in the two years 1998 and 1999, your overseas income has risen substantially; and you are doing many other good things. Given all that, is there any advantage to you in thinking in terms of a merger with any other organisation in Scotland?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106231",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  {
    "ID": "C106234",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Smith (Musicians Union): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 106234,
      "EditedText": "I am the Scottish organiser of the Musicians Union. Simon Crookall mentioned Hadrian's wall; in 1971 I came from south of the wall to work in the north. I am still here, very happy, and my daughter cheers for anyone who plays England.I will not say much, because our cultural strategy response—some of which I have highlighted for the benefit of committee members—covers our general approach. I remind the committee that the Musicians Union looks after all musicians, not just those employed by the national companies, although that is a major part of our remit.Education is at the core of our work. Without access to music education, in particular to instrumental teaching, we would not have professional music companies of any size, working in any genre. Of the 32 unitary authorities, only seven do not charge for instrumental tuition. That is a serious issue, because instrumental teaching is governed by ability to pay. We should all be against that.Our work in education involves close liaison with all 32 authorities. I will give examples of one or two matters that cause us concern at the moment. The National Youth Orchestra of Scotland has moved from the remit of the education department to that of the SAC; we want to ensure that that remit is maintained. A good example of our co-operation with the national companies on education is that we co-fund a joint apprenticeship programme with the RSNO and the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama. We pay the musicians who participate in the scheme, which gives young graduates of the RSAMD the opportunity to work with one of the national companies. For reasons that are clearly laid out in our report, local authorities cannot give enough priority to the arts.We welcome the new deal. We helped to set up the new deal for musicians and we think that it will give realistic work opportunities. Our industry is unique, but there are very few jobs; the new deal should help musicians to access employment opportunities.We thank the minister, Sam Galbraith, for the additional support that has been forthcoming for Scottish Opera. In particular, we are grateful for the recognition, three years ago, that the national companies required additional funding. There is a critical mass of funding for those companies, below which they cannot operate, although they must be accountable and transparent.We have played our part. We have new, flexible contracts of employment with Scottish Opera's orchestra. Simon Crookall outlined the process that is involved in the RSNO's application for advancement funding. We are helping the RSNO with that process and identifying areas of work that it can bring in-house. Education is one of the prime areas in which the RSNO can have greater control and be flexible, without turning the orchestra into a freelance employed orchestra; that would start to ring alarm bells in our heads.The Scottish Executive must take a much more hands-on approach with the national companies. I will not mention the SAC situation, because I am sure that members will ask questions on that. We are unhappy, concerned and cannot look to the future with any great optimism unless we can establish where the critical core mass of funding will come from and, most important, where the accountability lies. We must make progress on those issues.As I said, access should not be governed by the ability to pay. Music and music-related activities are among the most popular pursuits of the Scottish people. Participation in music is the core of the Musicians Union's existence. We are about work opportunity, participation and access.It is good that the public funding body finally recognises other forms of music. A major critical study into folk and traditional music is being undertaken. Within our organisation, I am responsible for folk and traditional music, which means that I get freebies to all the festivals—that is great. It is fantastic to go to festivals throughout the country and see the roster stacked with Scottish-based artists. That is what this is all about. That is success.Those of us who have children—of any age—know all about the influence of rock and pop music on our culture. It is as difficult for a young person to find work in pop music as it is in the classical arena.I will not say any more; all the information is in our submission. I will be delighted to answer members' questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 106236,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. I call Mr McManus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 106238,
      "EditedText": "Thank you.I open up the discussion to questions from members of the committee. We want to explore further how witnesses feel that their relationships with the Scottish Arts Council have developed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul McManus: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 106241,
      "EditedText": "In terms of the national companies, we suggest simply that the SAC be taken out of the equation altogether. Although it is not part of the current remit, we desperately want the SAC to undergo a radical overhaul. It is sad that an examination of the cost of the SAC finds that it is one of its own biggest customers. Most of the information that we receive about what is happening in the SAC comes from a number of sources, although one board member notably provides information. The SAC seeks no active or constructive discussions with the trade unions that are involved. I find it incredible that this organisation is allowed to go on as it has.I sat at the recent press conference for the appointment of Duncan McGhie and listened to the chair of the SAC describe how he had been monitoring the financial situation at Scottish Opera. That is a bit like Craig Brown saying that he is monitors the Scotland performances. He is paid to deliver, not to monitor. It is the same with the funder: it monitored the situation, yet there is a huge deficit for which no one is taking responsibility. We suggest simply that the Parliament should be responsible for setting up a body to look after the national companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Drew McFarlane (Equity): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 106245,
      "EditedText": "We need a cold blast through the corridors of the Scottish Arts Council. For a number of years, it has been perceived to be an organisation that is immersed in secrecy. Many performers believe that the money given to companies is based on patronage and on a favoured-sons-and-daughters policy. That is why the organisation needs to be completely overhauled—there is a complete lack of faith in it. That is not helped by the Scottish Arts Council itself; only a few years ago it commissioned Professor Bert Moorhouse of the University of Glasgow to study how performers perceive the Arts Council. His report was damning.Rather than have the honesty to make that report public and to try to make amends and put its house in order, the SAC doctored the report to remove all sorts of criticism of the organisation. The perception, therefore, is that the Scottish Arts Council is a quango that runs uncontrolled and is a puppet master.The Arts Council's forcing of the previous board of Scottish Ballet to resign has been well explained—although the SAC would never come out and admit that it sacked the board. At the same time, the Arts Council allowed another board to carry on without any major criticism of its financial mismanagement, which cost about £3.5 million.If we consider how theatre companies struggle, what the Arts Council gets away with is unbelievable. There is very little sympathy among other arts companies for the predicament that Scottish Opera has got itself into, because of the nature of its funding and the fact that other companies are not favoured and do not have the same political clout as Scottish Opera. The Scottish Arts Council needs to be overhauled.That leads to the question whether the arts would be better served by national organisations such as Scottish Opera being directly funded by the Scottish Executive, in the same way as equivalent organisations down south. The jury is still out on that question, and it must carefully considered. There is an argument for having a body at arm's-length from the companies. However, if that body is out of control, if it is not subject to stringent monitoring and if it fails to monitor actively a company to which it gives grants, we must ask whether the current formation and set-up of the body best serves the purpose and whether there should be another organisation in its place.The conclusion might be that national companies should be directly resourced. However, if that is the case, we would argue that the funding should not be taken from the overall pot that the Scottish Arts Council receives, and that the other arts organisations should not be left to flounder. It is hard to get a budget out of the Scottish Arts Council. There is very little financial detail in its annual report. Having read a nice glossy brochure, the public needs to go back to ask for the budget, about which the report says nothing.An examination of the financial side of the Scottish Arts Council shows that the SAC itself is the third biggest client, so it is in the SAC's interests to remain secretive and ensure that no one is looking at it too closely. The council is running away with a lot of money itself, and a lot of artists are suffering. I do not need to tell you the statistics on how many out-of-work actors, dancers and other performers there are in Scotland. The Scottish Arts Council needs serious examination, but the jury is still out on whether national companies should be directly funded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 106247,
      "EditedText": "I understand that it was made clear to the finance director that she would not be employed by the merged company. There is a sensitivity about people leaving jobs in such situations. I do not know whether that came into play in her case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 106250,
      "EditedText": "Right. Given what you said about the Scottish Arts Council's involvement, can you tell me, without going into embarrassing details, whether that view was taken by the board of Scottish Opera? Or was it suggested to the board and acted upon by the Scottish Arts Council?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 106251,
      "EditedText": "I could not answer that. We are a long way down from decisions such as that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 106253,
      "EditedText": "I am impressed by the remark in one of the union submissions that the largest subsidy to the national companies is the subsidy that comes from your members in wages and working conditions.The Equity submission states that\"Since nobody from the management of the company has, to this date, spoken to them\"—your members in Scottish Opera—\"about the company's position they were concerned to read that they had been within 48 hours of losing their jobs.\"Does that apply across the board? Has Scottish Opera or the Scottish Arts Council had no discussions with those who work in the companies or with the trade unions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 106254,
      "EditedText": "Not a word."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 106255,
      "EditedText": "What about the other unions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2155,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 106258,
      "EditedText": "But there has been no formal discussion with the staff about the situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 106259,
      "EditedText": "We knew that the situation was serious. I met the acting chief executive—I think it was on his 13th day in office—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106260",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 106260,
      "EditedText": "Lucky for some."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106267",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 106267,
      "EditedText": "The concern of our members at Scottish Ballet, bearing in mind that there are 34 classically trained dancers there, was that what the SAC was trying to do a few years ago was to force them into becoming a contemporary company. Some may think that a dancer is a dancer, but a classically trained dancer is a completely different beast from a contemporary dancer. We may have found ourselves in a situation where the skills of the dancers were of no further use to the company. That is part of the cloud of uncertainty that has been hanging over the employees of those two national companies for a considerable period.We hoped that a merger would bring a re-evaluation of the funding levels and a secure administration because, in our opinion, the administration at the ballet has not been of a high standard, although it has lived within its means. Together, those would give security of employment for our members working in both companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 106268,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful to consider for a few moments the background to why we have reached this decision. In 1992, the then director of the Scottish Arts Council announced that a merger would take place between the orchestra of Scottish Opera and the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra. No consultation was undertaken with the representative unions, and none whatever with the employees of both organisations. When the obvious question was asked, the answer was, \"Oh, well, they might object.\" You can sure as hell bet they objected. That proposed merger is now in the history books.It came around again when Lord Lindsay was responsible for the brief at the Scottish Office. He decided that the best way to secure funding for the ballet and opera companies was to forget the BBC orchestra option and to consider merging the orchestras of the two companies. There are precedents for that kind of thing—at the Royal Opera House in Covent Garden, for example.Both companies are essentially theatre-based, one providing a programme of opera and the other a programme of ballet. Many of their delivery functions are shared. When it was put to us that the best way forward would be to merge the orchestras, frankly we did our damnedest to find ways of doing so. We may not have been terribly popular with all our members, but we went willingly into that exercise. At that point, we said that we would provide one orchestra for the two companies if it could be proved to us, during the course of the consultation, that all other areas of activity that were common to both companies could produce equal savings and equal areas of collaboration.We approve of the concept of the two companies working closely together. Of course, we are desperately concerned—and this jumps out from all our submissions—that management should be competent. We are also concerned about financial accountability, and about the financial relationship of both companies with the SAC and, potentially, directly with the Scottish Executive, as has been outlined by my colleague from Equity.That gives a slightly clearer picture of why we are reaching those conclusions. An administrative merger of the companies is a pragmatic and achievable objective, provided that all the other mechanisms, not least competent management and accountability, are in place. That is where we are coming from."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "William Sweeney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 106278,
      "EditedText": "I speak with feeling, having chaired many meetings of musicians whose livelihood has been threatened by a financial bolt from the blue or some reorganisation scheme that affects them but on which they have not been consulted. The management issue is vital. The main funders must be able to go in at any time and at any level of the organisation—from board level to the level of how many pots of paint are being used for the scenery—to check the financial situation. Everyone who works in the national companies would welcome that. I stress that what underlies the crises is the fact that the companies are funded only to survive. They are funded to the point of inefficiency. The national companies have the potential, particularly in their outreach work, to make critical interventions in the quality and standards of education in Scotland, but they are not funded to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 106290,
      "EditedText": "The primary reason for co-production is the lack of resources for initial productions. I think that you are referring to the Tron-Lyceum production. A few years ago, those theatres would have produced separately. However, as a result of declining budgets, they have decided that they can produce only together, on a shared budget. I mentioned revivals. The theatrical process is a massive investment, but it is speculative. A production can have the best writers, cast and director, but can still be a turkey for reasons that neither I nor they could explain. However, when a production is a hit—and that cannot be guaranteed, as it emerges from a whole set of circumstances—no further use is made of it. That is something that should be addressed; building on that would be a much more positive development than co-production, as there is still an element of uncertainty in co-production, with two theatres rather than one banking on the success of the production."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 106291,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Drew McFarlane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 106295,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, it is not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 106296,
      "EditedText": "You said that you had two questions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 106298,
      "EditedText": "I am aware of the time. We have only about seven minutes left. Please try to be brief."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 106299,
      "EditedText": "My second question is along the same lines. I feel strongly that it would be of benefit if we could keep the four national companies separate, particularly in relation to what Ian Smith was saying. There is a huge area of folk and traditional music outwith the national companies, which waits for the national companies to carve up the budget and throw it a few crumbs. You are suggesting that a reformed SAC's job would be to look after that part of the cake, and that somebody else should look after the four national companies. Is that correct?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106300",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul McManus: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 106300,
      "EditedText": "Essentially, that is what we are suggesting. As Ian Smith said, there is a broad spectrum of traditional and all sorts of other arts that are being stifled as a result of the problems of the national companies. Because of the difference in scale, the national companies should be hived off. It is important to clarify that the SAC has prevented the national companies, particularly Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet, from managing their funding. That means that no one will take the blame, as you have pointed out. It is significant that the people who are most critical of the SAC are those who do not hope to get funding. That point was reinforced in the answers to some of the questions that members asked today. Scottish Opera says that it was not allowed to manage the situation. It says that the SAC knew that it would run up a deficit, so why should it take the blame? Besides which, Scottish Opera wants more money. The SAC says that it will not take the blame for anything because it does not want a hard time from the politicians. The deficit was no surprise to the SAC, Scottish Opera or anyone in the industry. An element of the deficit was due to annualisation, as has been discussed, but the lack of management of the situation was a large part of the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "William Sweeney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 106301,
      "EditedText": "I understand how the separation of core funding in the national companies works. Art form committees tend to work by being asked to rate their priorities in numerical order, say from one to 31. The top priorities, therefore, are Scottish Opera, the Royal Scottish National Orchestra and so on. When the SAC allocates central funding, it can afford to fund only priorities one to 25, so numbers 26 to 31 do not receive funding. I can see how that happens, but, artistically, I am wary of separating the national companies from folk and traditional culture and from jazz and popular music. The national companies cannot remain frozen in a classical repertoire or in the modern concert classical repertoire. The creative energy to progress lies in the cross-fertilisation of the different forms of art and music. We must not put in place a structure that would encourage further divisions and lead to less cross-fertilisation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106302",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 106302,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We have time for two quick questions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 106306,
      "EditedText": "That is the quickest question that I have ever heard Ian Welsh ask."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106307",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 106307,
      "EditedText": "How manageable is Scottish Opera, given that it spends £5½ million before it has even done any performing, leaving only a wee bit to get a director and do the artistic side after wages and property costs have been met? Is there some way in which artistic integrity can be kept without spending that huge block of money before things even get going? The idea that performances cost so much money that the company cannot undertake them is horrific, but things are getting to that stage."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106310",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul McManus: ",
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      "EditedText": "No, I think that it has all been said."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 106314,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that the consultation exercise on the Riddell report closes at the end of this month. Therefore, the Executive should be clearer about the report's possibilities at the end of that period. We felt that the time scale indicated in the paper was realistic, given the committee's other work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 106315,
      "EditedText": "Brian, are you suggesting that we make representations to the Executive to postpone its decisions on the Riddell report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 106318,
      "EditedText": "The Minister for Parliament should be asked what the Government's intentions are. We should hear his views at our next meeting, so that we can formulate a time scale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 106319,
      "EditedText": "Do members want to add to what the paper says about the inquiry's remit or evidence sessions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 106321,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful if you could give names to the clerk, but not necessarily right now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 106326,
      "EditedText": "The reporters' work is part of the committee's work and will, therefore, be resourced as far as possible. The clerks would want and expect to be closely involved with the reporters and to assist as much as they can both in advising on the work and in writing up any reports that are submitted to the committee. Similarly, SPICe will offer additional support to the extent that its resources allow. If it cannot do the research itself, it will suggest others who can. It would be helpful if any requests to SPICe were channelled through the clerks, so that we can weigh them up against the other work that the committee is doing. We are happy to facilitate that discussion.The reporters' work is work for the committee, so it is covered by the usual rules for funding of committee work. If reporters are planning travel or other expenses, those will need to be cleared through the conveners group, in the same way as other committee expenses. I am happy to discuss that with any of the reporters and with the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 106327,
      "EditedText": "Gillian said that it would be useful if requests for support for research and assistance from SPICe were channelled through her. However, I am aware that SPICe will be particularly concerned with issues arising from the bill. If there are any difficulties, they should be relayed to me, because we are trying to make representations, through the conveners committee, to ensure that there is adequate support for committees. As has been said, the work of reporters is part of the committee's work.We are relatively certain that finance will be available for this year, because we are starting so late, but we will need to keep an eye on that for the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 106328,
      "EditedText": "I understand that very little money from the budget for reporters and inquiries has been spent, and that it has to be spent by the end of next March. Yesterday I discussed this subject with a couple of people, and the inquiries on which we have agreed would seem to be ideal candidates for resources for facilitators and other forms of support. If members would like further information, as I would, I will endeavour to provide Gillian and the committee with it.It appears that three of our inquiries will report in March, which is a heavy work load. I would not be unhappy if mine were allowed to run on into April. That would help to kill two birds with one stone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 106329,
      "EditedText": "That is very obliging of you. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 106332,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we suggested that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 106335,
      "EditedText": "The allowances office would advise on that. I do not presume to get involved in such things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ContributionID": 106337,
      "EditedText": "That is not on today's agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 523.0,
      "ContributionID": 106340,
      "EditedText": "I have not had time to look at the matter yet. I will add it to next week's agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 527.0,
      "ContributionID": 106342,
      "EditedText": "When will we have the chance to chinwag about the investigation into the national companies before we produce a report? What is the mechanism for deciding what the report will say? How will that impinge on meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C106345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 106345,
      "EditedText": "I am just talking about the members having a chinwag. It worries me sometimes that everything is terribly formal and it is difficult to throw ideas around."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 106346,
      "EditedText": "We should have a discussion of at least half an hour to three quarters of an hour—I suspect, in private, having given notice—to lay out the main lines of conclusion. Then we will have to see a first, and perhaps a second, draft of those conclusions, some of which are becoming painfully obvious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 106351,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Mary Mulligan): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 106086,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I welcome our witnesses to the meeting. As you will be aware, the committee is conducting an inquiry into the national arts companies; we have invited you to contribute to that. Next week, we will be hearing evidence on the possibility of a national theatre for Scotland, so we are aiming for a wide-ranging debate. I ask the representatives from the Royal Scottish National Orchestra to give their presentation first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall (Royal Scottish National Orchestra): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 106087,
      "EditedText": "For more than 100 years, the Royal Scottish National Orchestra has been a major force in music in Scotland. We were the first national company and our orchestra has introduced generations of children to classical music. We are proud of our reputation for the highest quality of work, as demonstrated by the huge number of concerts that we give each year. We have an audience of more than 150,000 people annually and a broad repertoire that encompasses everything from classical music to music for film and the Broadway stage. We have an international reputation through our recording profile and our touring. We have always recorded classical music and recently we have recorded film music, which has earned us great fame in America. We conduct groundbreaking education work, which is described more eloquently than I could do in an article in The Herald today, which I am sure you will have read. We have worked in nursery schools and in communities across the country.We project a balanced budget for the current year. At its meeting last week, the board projected a surplus of £373. We do not yet know how we will spend such a great sum. We have been able to balance the budget only by cutting much of the innovative work that we used to do, by ceasing to give concerts outside Scotland and by pushing the income targets from ticket sales and sponsorship to the absolute limits. We are no longer able to be as innovative as we want to be or to take artistic risks in our programming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller (Royal Scottish National Orchestra): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 106088,
      "EditedText": "I want to make it clear that I am involved in the orchestra as a result of my business experience, rather than of my artistic knowledge.The first year in which I was involved with the budgeting—last year—was, frankly, unsuccessful. There were three reasons for that. First, we were ambitious and, as Simon Crookall suggested, ambition costs money. Secondly, the move from the Usher Hall reduced our audience by about 400 or 500 persons per concert, which we had not anticipated. I am sure that members of the committee will be aware of the problems of the Usher Hall—we are glad that something is being done there. We are looking forward to getting back into what is a first-class concert hall so that, on a Friday night, we can accommodate more of the people of Edinburgh. The third reason—which is often forgotten—is that recession was being forecast in the summer of 1998. That affected our audiences.We have not gone back to the Scottish Arts Council for more money, however; we have cut our cloth to suit our budget. As Simon said, that means that we have cut innovative work and so on. He did not mention the important fact that we have cut the commissioning of new works by Scottish composers and the use of Scottish soloists. The RSNO carries the flag for Scotland, in and outside the country, but everyone agrees that we can afford to go neither overseas nor over Hadrian's wall. We are putting all our resources into playing within Scotland and, although we spread our net fairly widely, it could be spread a little wider.We have to stretch the money that is available as far as possible. I stress that I am not whinging. The RSNO is doing well and anybody who has attended any of the recent concerts will have seen how popular they have been, from last weekend's Hollywood spectacular to the more usual classical concerts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106090",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 106090,
      "EditedText": "I invite members to ask questions. Cathy Peattie wants to ask about broadening the agenda of the orchestra."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 106093,
      "EditedText": "We are interested in your work, but we must always return to the issue of resourcing that work. Ian Welsh had a question on annualisation, which your paper raises."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106095",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 106095,
      "EditedText": "As I said, we project a modest surplus, which gives us no comfort whatever. Our problem is that, even on 1 April, we were projecting a cash-flow deficit at the end of the year of £600,000. That does not change throughout the year—an orchestra such as ours can closely predict expenditure from day one.Every year, we run out of cash in a big way, which is why we borrow on the next year's grant from the SAC. Our directors had a serious discussion this year about the viability of the company if it were unable to meet its needs at the end of the year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106096",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 106096,
      "EditedText": "Would you rather that the budget was allocated in another way?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 106102,
      "EditedText": "As a businessman, I see this as an important aspect. Everything depends on the basic level of funding. If that is wrong to start with, the problem will grow as the years go by. I have come to this only recently—I have been a director for just three years—but I have seen the importance of that issue grow in my time with the company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106106",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 106106,
      "EditedText": "Many times. There has been no satisfactory answer.Last year was bad for us; we were unable to raise the income that we needed. Expenditure is not difficult for us to track and is generally on budget. Last year, however, we could not raise enough revenue from ticket sales and sponsorship. I think that the SAC was concerned that that might be an on-going problem that we might not be able to address.We plan to address the issue through the advancement programme. We have talked at length with the musicians and their union about ways of bringing back income that is unavailable to us. At the moment, the orchestra's education programme is separately funded on a project-by-project basis. Any income that is generated is paid out on a freelance basis to the players who take part in the programme because, when the programme was set up, it was not part of the core work of the orchestra. We want to make it a core part of our work so that we can schedule it more strategically and so that the funding—from local authorities, trusts and sponsors—will come straight into the core funding of the orchestra."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106109",
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    },
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 106109,
      "EditedText": "Other companies with deficits appear to get extra money. Did you not make that point to the SAC?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106110",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is why I think that the committee should talk to the SAC."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106111",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 106111,
      "EditedText": "Other companies seem to argue their case on the basis that they have to undertake certain artistic activities and so must be funded. Your commendable yet regrettable response, however, has been to cut activity outside Scotland and to reduce the diversity of your programme. Having done those things, have you received any indication from the SAC that you will receive extra resources?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106115",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 106115,
      "EditedText": "Do you see any prospect for cost-saving through a merger with any other organisation, as has been planned with Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106117",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 106117,
      "EditedText": "So is advancement funding your only prospect of developing new ways of working?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106119",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 106119,
      "EditedText": "If you secure the advancement funding, what benefit will it bring in your financial predictions for the next three years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 106121,
      "EditedText": "How accurate are your financial forecasts? If we were to send somebody to examine past board papers and forecasting, how accurate would they show your process to be? That is key to your survival."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 106123,
      "EditedText": "You say \"sometimes less well\". What is the percentage likelihood of your hitting your targets for the year? Do you usually hit them? Do you have a 10 per cent or 20 per cent chance of doing so?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 106125,
      "EditedText": "Simon is new to his post, as I am to mine. I was not happy with the forecasting, but it has been substantially improved. You might find that an odd statement, given that we were unsuccessful last year, but we were unsuccessful in terms of increasing moneys from sponsorship and from ticket sales and not, as Simon may have implied, in getting the moneys. The move from the Usher Hall also had an effect. Such matters are difficult to forecast. I hope that we will be within 5 per cent of our forecast, but that is still a lot of money in terms of our balance sheet. We have some important and experienced directors on the board, and they watch those matters carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 106136,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Arts Council has not encouraged us to go over budget; it has done the opposite."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 106144,
      "EditedText": "Scottish Opera's financial problems are for it to discuss.We have always managed to keep quality at the top of our agenda. If we do not have enough money, we do not skimp on the quality; we reduce the quantity of what we do. We are fortunate to be able to do that. In other, more complex companies, the quality is much more difficult to achieve within the budgets that they are given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 106148,
      "EditedText": "It was an enormously beneficial process. It brought the companies together for the first time in a long period. We consistently worked closely together. That has altered a little because of the changes in personnel at the other companies, but the two orchestras now work together much more closely; they co-operate on educational and promotional work outside the central belt much more than they did before. I think that the process was very beneficial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 106145,
      "EditedText": "On the more general issue of the role of the Scottish Arts Council in the funding process, are you satisfied with the arrangement whereby the council operates as the conduit for Scottish Executive funds? Would there be merit in a more direct relationship between the national arts companies and the Scottish Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:09.5583737+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 106147,
      "EditedText": "Will you comment on the operation of the national companies working group? How satisfactory was that and what benefit did it bring?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:09.5583737+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 106242,
      "EditedText": "Would you say that the problems that you have described so graphically are intrinsic to the structure and the funding mechanisms that are in place, or are they more as a result of current bad management at the Scottish Arts Council? Could those problems be rectified if different circumstances existed within the SAC?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 106239,
      "EditedText": "We have read the written submissions from witnesses about the role of the SAC. I cannot remember which submission it was, but one in particular is scathing about the secrecy surrounding the SAC's decision-making processes. That was elaborated on today—I want to tease that out a bit more. Will the witnesses say more about how that secrecy has arisen, how they think that the problems could be solved and whether they think that there is merit in moving towards a more direct relationship between the arts companies and the Scottish Executive? In a sense, that would involve cutting out the middle man. Would that be a sensible direction in which to move?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 525.0,
      "ContributionID": 106341,
      "EditedText": "We need to discuss the process and lack of consultation rather than the substance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 106092,
      "EditedText": "Our work in schools is a relatively recent development. Some four or five of our players—of a total strength of 89—are trained to work with teachers in schools. Part of our programme is to train the teachers so that the work can continue when the players have gone. We do a lot of work on compositional techniques and help with the five-to-14 curriculum in relation to listening, performing and creating. More recently, we have started work with nursery children. Next term, we will be involved with a pilot project in east Renfrewshire in which we will help the children to create music and better understand their musical skills."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 106094,
      "EditedText": "Last week, Sandy Orr told us about the problem of dealing with grants on an annual basis and the inability to build up reserves. Are you satisfied with the way in which your budget is articulated by the demands of the Scottish Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 106099,
      "EditedText": "We had an endowment trust with large reserves, which were used to fund the company's deficits. An awful lot of money was spent in that way and now the trust has no large balances left. We now draw down the income from what remains of the trust, which works out as £20,000 to £30,000 a year. In the early 1990s, those large reserves disguised the orchestra's problems. Now, there is not enough money in the fund to pay off our deficit, so deficits will be added to the balance sheet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 106100,
      "EditedText": "Would you like your accumulated deficits to be written off, as those of other companies are?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106101",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 106101,
      "EditedText": "I would be very happy if that happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 106103,
      "EditedText": "Why do you think that, of all the national companies, the RSNO is the only one not to have been offered index-linked funding from next year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 106107,
      "EditedText": "I want to press you on the fact that you have had no satisfactory answer from the SAC as to why you seem to be the least-favoured national company. What reasons have you been given?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 106108,
      "EditedText": "Simply that last year was a bad one for us and that there was a concern that the situation would continue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 106114,
      "EditedText": "In the same way in which we have had to deal with the current situation. The programme of work must be reduced—there is no other way about it. We have worked hard to maximise ticket income and to get as much external sponsorship and trust funding as we can. There is not an enormous amount more out there for us to raise incrementally. The symphony orchestra has a large fixed cost. We have 89 players—the musicians' bill is in excess of £2 million a year. The on-going cost of that is hard to meet. If the cake is to be reduced, the work must be reduced as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 106126,
      "EditedText": "Every year, you receive a budget that is drawn up by the chief executive and his team. You accept that budget for the coming year and then receive monthly management accounts. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 106127,
      "EditedText": "We now have monthly management accounts and cash flows, forecasted to the end of the year, and we have budgets going beyond that. Because advancement is so important and will make such a change, we have not gone beyond the year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 106130,
      "EditedText": "My question is on the same lines as Mike Russell's. Last week, when we talked to Scottish Opera and the Scottish Arts Council, we got the impression—Sandy Orr made the point—that companies such as yours were encouraged to live at the limits of their means, which often meant that they went over those limits. Is that what the Scottish Arts Council encourages you to do?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 106131,
      "EditedText": "I would not say that we are encouraged to do that, but it is the only way in which we can survive and continue to have an extensive work programme. Everything is budgeted down to the last penny on a yearly basis. We do not have any contingencies in our budgets, because we do not have the slack. I would not say that we were encouraged to live at the limits of our means, but that is the way in which we have to operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 106132,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is more than that. We try to spend the money that we get, and are going to bring in, to the greatest benefit for Scotland. We have had to cut things that are marginal to return to a break-even situation. If we had the money, we would again run the discovery series, which consisted of modern music by mainly Scottish composers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 106133,
      "EditedText": "What you are saying—that you cut your cloth to live within your budget—implies that you are not encouraged to exceed your budget and that you are conscious that you must not run up deficits. Is that the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 106134,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 106135,
      "EditedText": "Do you get rewarded for that? That is the key point. We are talking about the culture in which you operate. The Scottish Arts Council seemed to let Scottish Opera operate within a culture in which it was encouraged to go over budget. It went over budget time and again, running up a forecasted deficit, but that was thought to be fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 106140,
      "EditedText": "I read what is in the papers but I do not always believe what is in the papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 106142,
      "EditedText": "We are different kinds of companies. As you know, extensive work was done to find a solution to the problem that existed for the four companies three or four years ago. Ever since James Miller and I have been in post, the national companies have continued to meet. The situation with Scottish Opera is not new or different, but it does not have a lot of relevance for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 106146,
      "EditedText": "One of the challenges of the current system is that the budgets of the national companies and the grants that they receive distort the funding pattern. The companies form such a large part of the music budget in particular and the Scottish Arts Council budget in general that we tend to act like cuckoos in the nest, distorting the picture for everybody else. I have not yet heard of a better system than the current one, however, although the issue needs to be considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 106152,
      "EditedText": "Like other members, I want to examine your funding. You said in your submission that local authority funding fell considerably—by about £230,000. Was that as a result of reorganisation, or were other reasons given?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106153",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 106153,
      "EditedText": "Reorganisation was one of the primary causes. We lost more because we had more. The RSNO was the first national company and we had good relationships with local authorities. We therefore had more funding to lose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 106154,
      "EditedText": "In your submission, you said that you should break even this year, but today you are saying that you might have a small surplus. Will you confirm that, if there is a small surplus, you cannot retain it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 106161,
      "EditedText": "What is your attitude to public funding of the arts? One of the matters that we raised last week with Scottish Opera, Scottish Ballet and the Scottish Arts Council was whether press speculation about and press attention to public funding was damaging the reputation of the arts in Scotland. What action can your orchestra take to inspire confidence in the use of public funds?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 106167,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 106169,
      "EditedText": "They said it, not me."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 106170,
      "EditedText": "Let us draw this part of our evidence to a close. I now welcome representatives from the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. If they have time, I would be grateful if Mr Crookall and Mr Miller could stay with us, because the point of our inviting representatives of both orchestras was to allow questions or comments on any overlapping areas. I invite Mr Macdonald and Mr McEwan to make a brief presentation before I open up the meeting for questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan (Scottish Chamber Orchestra): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 106176,
      "EditedText": "The situation is similar, but not entirely the same. Education and community work with orchestras has been financially peripheral partly for historical reasons. Revenue funding has been based predominantly on performance work, whereas education and community work has been a much more recent development. The SCO has been doing education and community work for around 15 years. We have two full-time members of staff who organise that work, which is funded from our core budget. Similarly, there is a modest budget to fund other work. We have to raise specific funds to finance the bulk of the educational and community projects that we undertake. That makes our work on this a challenge, but it has also been the basis on which, over the years, we have developed stronger relationships with local authorities in areas where they have provided project funding. In recent years, following local government reorganisation and a variety of other factors, that kind of project funding has been under threat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 106185,
      "EditedText": "You are particularly well known for the fireworks event in Edinburgh. To what extent do you foresee, or use, occasions such as that—if the income from them is ring-fenced—as profit-making events? To what extent are such events your property? Are they the property of the festival, or, if you have introduced the idea, are they your events? Does the funding from the Bank of Scotland come primarily to you or is it shared with the festival? I ask that because I wonder whether a future direction might be to create more events, rather than to rely purely on the programmes—events that would compete, for example, with those at Glamis Castle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106188",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 106188,
      "EditedText": "Simon Crookall mentioned that local government reorganisation was a major factor in the decline in local authority support. We also noticed that the outcome of the national companies implementation group process, in which the national companies were given a further central Government settlement, was perceived by local authorities as a signal that the national companies were the responsibility of central Government. Unfortunately, the extra support that was identified for the national companies was based on an assumption of constant income from other sources, which is where we have lost ground. That raises the question—it has also arisen in discussions with COSLA—of exactly where the responsibility for the national companies lies. Does it lie only at Government level or in a partnership? Our view is that there is no clear answer to the questions whether revenue support should be national and whether other kinds of support should be local. The Scottish Arts Council has its own views on that. However, we certainly do not want to be in the position of having no partnership with local authorities. If the partnership does not involve revenue, it must involve something else. I do not think that the national companies can do their job unless they work in partnership around the country. The local authority link is terribly important for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C106189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 106189,
      "EditedText": "I accept that; I just want to establish whether there can be any solution to the problem of the budget black hole that has been created by the reorganisation of local government. Is the advancement funding process in which you are involved, Simon, an attempt to reincorporate what was formerly a local authority fund?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 106197,
      "EditedText": "I would like to say a word or two about freelance contracts. We are very worried that with an orchestra the size of ours—89 players—it would be very difficult to maintain our quality by offering freelance contracts this far away from London. As Roy McEwan says, it is not an accident that all the symphony orchestras outside London are run on a contract basis. One of the strengths of our way of organising things is that we employ 89 classical musicians in Scotland who contribute to the economy both by teaching and by playing in smaller groups as well. That would all be lost if we offered freelance contracts and people were flying up from London to do the gigs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 106200,
      "EditedText": "I would like to come back to the matter of money. The Scottish Chamber Orchestra has provided the committee with its consolidated balance sheet and consolidated revenue account. From our experience of reading other such documents, they make more pleasurable reading than most. Kenneth Macintosh referred to last week's evidence from Sandy Orr, who said that national companies always lived on the edge. You appear to have a consistent record of living on the right side of that edge, as opposed to some of the others, who live on the wrong side. I am impressed by some of the detail in your figures; but before I go into that, will you say something about the way in which you manage your annual budgeting and forecasting process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roy McEwan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 106205,
      "EditedText": "By being constantly critical of every penny we spend. We have a great incentive because the players—who have an investment in the orchestra because they are members of the company—scrutinise nothing more closely than how much we spend on administration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 106206,
      "EditedText": "That is a key point—the whole company has an interest in keeping those costs as low as possible. In your organisation, can they influence that and take action if they are not happy?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 106208,
      "EditedText": "And is that a significant factor in making the company work?"
    },
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      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 106210,
      "EditedText": "The money that you receive from the Scottish Arts Council is considerable, but you are the smallest of the national companies. We have heard from Mr Crookall about not receiving satisfactory answers to requests for increased grants. You have been getting increased grants. What is the secret of your success?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Crookall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 106217,
      "EditedText": "Flexibility is admirable, but, as I said earlier, I do not think that it is replicable in a symphony orchestra."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 106218,
      "EditedText": "But that means that, to some extent, Scotland is being deprived of the wider musical agenda by the constraints on you, and can receive it only in part from the chamber orchestra."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 106224,
      "EditedText": "It is a constant theme, convener, and one that it is difficult to get an answer to. If the people who are most deeply involved in it do not know, we will have to pursue it with the Arts Council.I have a final question for the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. Are you now operating an endowment reserve?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 106225,
      "EditedText": "I think that you may have been out of the room, Mr Russell, when I mentioned that, in the mysteries of accounts, the endowment reserve is in reality the proceeds of the sale of our previous office. So as not to lose sight of it, we have earmarked it and called it an endowment fund. However, it is not a proper, standalone, independent, endowment fund; it is netting off against the deficit. It would not be wise for us to spend that money, because we get a free office at the moment from a benefactor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106227",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 106227,
      "EditedText": "Who do you have in mind? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106230",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 106230,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to have to draw this discussion to a conclusion. I thank you all for coming along this morning and answering our questions. You have raised a number of issues."
    },
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  {
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      "ContributionID": 106232,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106235",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "ID": 118
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell (Equity): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 106235,
      "EditedText": "I will try to be brief. My colleague, Drew McFarlane, and I are both full-time officials for Equity. Equity welcomes the opportunity to appear before the committee. We believe that Scotland should continue to support the national companies; that support should be regarded as an investment in excellence. Ideally, we would like the national companies to perform throughout Scotland regularly and act as ambassadors for Scotland abroad.We draw the committee's attention to the lack of a national theatre. There has been institutional resistance to the idea of such a theatre for some time. We will return to that issue.First, we will consider some of the positive arguments—educational, economic and cultural—for a national theatre. Just as \"The Kist\" was developed for schools to help to change attitudes to language, a long list of Scottish plays have not been given the respect that they deserve and should be treated the same way. We hope that a Scottish national theatre, with a broad international outlook, will place that neglected literary tradition in an international context.On the economic arguments, we believe that a Scottish national theatre could help to keep some of the box office spend from our bigger theatres in Scotland, to be reinvested.We also believe that a Scottish national theatre could have a significant international role, touring to countries such as the USA, Canada, Australia and South Africa where language and immigration already provide strong roots. At home, the economic impact on the acting community could be a significant factor in helping to keep talent in Scotland, especially as we prepare to have a national film studio. Culturally, a national theatre for Scotland would be a symbol of growing national confidence—in many ways, a cultural reflection of the Parliament.For Equity members, the question is one of resources. If an actor wants to work at any level, he or she must go south. Scottish-produced theatre exists on small and medium scales and seldom reaches the large scale. That makes it commercially unattractive.Theatre is chronically under-resourced in education. A national theatre for Scotland would help to address that.I know of nobody who wants the national theatre of Scotland to become an institution. Nobody advocates that it should have a new building. The committee has an interesting list of witnesses for next week's meeting; I know that most of them are agin the idea of a national theatre, but I believe that the majority of their arguments will be motivated by self-interest. If the opportunity were offered to run a well-resourced theatre that could tour strategically throughout Scotland, any of those witnesses would take it.A national theatre would enhance, not conflict with, national provision. The committee's inquiry is being conducted in the context of opera's problems; Equity urges the committee to return to the subject of a national theatre when the smoke has cleared. Equity has always argued for new funds for theatre and we are confident that, now we have a Parliament, we will soon have a national theatre.In our submission, we draw the committee's attention to the low rates of pay of the dancers at Scottish Ballet. The situation is a result of the company's making sacrifices to live within its means. We ask the committee to consider the preferential treatment that one art form has been given over many others. We have many members who work outside the national companies but, in the context of this review, we urge the committee to ask why ballet dancers are paid so much less than opera singers are.When an arts organisation acts as Scottish Opera has done, it does massive harm to the credibility of all arts organisations and the case for improved funding. Forgive me if I limit the discussion to Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet, but those are the organisations in which we have a locus. The funding levels of those organisations should be put in perspective. The SAC was originally a sub-committee of the Arts Council of Great Britain. The funding of Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet is based on the historically low level of funding that the Arts Council of Great Britain offered such companies. The Royal Opera and the Royal Ballet were deemed to be the national companies. Despite that, Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet have managed to punch above their weight. Equity urges the committee to reconsider the levels of funding to the national companies and to be prepared to recommend that they be funded as centres of excellence. It goes without saying that those companies would be expected to live within their means.When we prepared our submission, I had not read the Official Report of last week's meeting. Having read it, I can say only that we were amazed that Scottish Opera's deficit was run up without anybody's being responsible for it. Our members at Scottish Opera have expressed anger that nobody has spoken to them to explain the predicament that the company has found itself in.We are concerned about the lack of a finance director for the whole of this financial year. We are also concerned about the length of time for which the SAC knew about the state of the company's finances, the extent of its knowledge and the secrecy that has surrounded the episode.The Theatre Royal in Glasgow is owned by Scottish Opera. We ask the committee to consider whether Scottish Opera uses it as an asset. It is under-utilised as a theatre and over-utilised as a very expensive rehearsal room. If it is not an asset to the company, its future should be considered.We believe that the SAC's role in the stewardship of the national companies is highly questionable. We cannot understand how the SAC can say that Scottish Opera is well managed, despite a massive overspend, and then go on to undertake an independent review of the company. The SAC has offered no explanation for its different treatment of the boards of the two companies. The prudent Scottish Ballet board was sacked; that plunged the company into two years of turmoil. The SAC's behaviour towards the Scottish Opera board was unfair, whimsical and open to the charge of bullying. We believe that its role in this saga—especially its lack of success in steering the national companies—deserves the utmost scrutiny. Furthermore, with the creation of the Parliament, it is time to scrutinise all quangos' relationships with the Parliament.Finally, and most important, Equity urges the committee to examine the affordability and accessibility of the performances of all the national companies. Equity wants the companies' work to be open to everyone in Scotland and urges the committee to examine ticket pricing. In our submission, we make a valid comparison with cinema tickets. To encourage new audiences and to ensure the widest possible audience, we believe that, in addition to existing concessions, some seats at all performances should be available for the price of a local cinema ticket."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106240",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 106240,
      "EditedText": "It is in the submission from BECTU."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106249",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 106249,
      "EditedText": "I understood that her career with Scottish Opera had come to an end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106256",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 106256,
      "EditedText": "It was a complete bombshell for people to discover that they were within 48 hours of losing their jobs."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106257",
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      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul McManus: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 106257,
      "EditedText": "The situation was somewhat different for us. We were involved in weekly discussions about the merger and it is no secret that our senior steward is one of the finance officers. The comments about 48 hours were not of concern to us. We have been communicating management's views to our members."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106261",
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      "ID": 531
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      "ID": 118
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 106261,
      "EditedText": "You may say so. On that 13th day, he said, \"I think we're a million pounds out.\" He had not been involved with the company before. It says a lot about the administrative competence and financial accountability of the major recipient of over £6 million of public funding that the acting chief executive, who had been brought in to guide the company through the administrative merger, knew in his second week that the slot machine was already rolling."
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 106264,
      "EditedText": "That is a slight equivocation. It does not seem to me that you are persuaded either artistically or financially. You are persuaded politically."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 106266,
      "EditedText": "You have used the words \"pressure\" and \"force\". A lot of the evidence that we have had in writing, and other evidence that some of us have received individually, suggests that, within Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet, there is a culture of pressure. There is pressure from the Scottish Arts Council, and, perhaps through the council, pressure from management who may be themselves pressured, to force this issue. Do your members feel that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 106269,
      "EditedText": "But the evidence seems to suggest that you are not getting that at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul McManus: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 106271,
      "EditedText": "I would echo some of Ian's sentiments. Our members decided to go into the merger on the basis that it would be the catalyst for change in other areas of all the national companies. There is much close collaboration. To put it bluntly, one could argue that one person could administer the wages for four companies as easily as four people could.We had several meetings with the national group and one thing that was clear to our members in both Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet was that the current arrangements were not working. Every year there would be a fight with the SAC, the Scottish Office would get involved and there would be tremendous uncertainty about jobs and so on. Our members told us that they wanted a better way of doing things. We told the national group at that time that we wanted to consider how it was done in other countries. There are several European models for joint opera-ballet companies that work very successfully.We are close to completing the merger. We have had positive discussions with both Ruth Mackenzie and Adrian Trickey about what is best for the companies. One of the main concerns has been that Scottish Opera is substantially larger than Scottish Ballet. In my experience of mergers, members of the smaller organisation feel very threatened. It will be some time before the organisations consider that the merger is benefiting them equally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul McManus: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 106273,
      "EditedText": "I go back to my earlier point: there needs to be a public debate through the Scottish Parliament, which sets out what is expected from the national companies. The national companies could then tell us what that would cost. Once the Executive has decided how much it is prepared to give, it will know what it is paying for and everyone can work within that. At the moment, that is not the case. We have the Scottish Arts Council saying one thing and paying for another, paying for one thing and saying something else. They cannot keep asking Scottish Opera to provide international class opera, as they are doing, and then expect them to deliver it on a shoestring. You have heard the other companies saying that they have had to cut back their programmes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 106274,
      "EditedText": "Would you accept that that difficulty is bringing the public funding of the arts into disrepute?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul McManus: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 106275,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 106279,
      "EditedText": "Would you support the idea that those who work in the company are members of it and have rights and responsibilities to be involved? The model is that of the Scottish Chamber Orchestra and others. It is a very European model—I would call it a stakeholder model but I do not want not to use that word. Would that be workable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 106280,
      "EditedText": "That is a key point. The RSNO has five player-directors, who are democratically elected by their colleagues. The SCO runs on the principle of the London orchestras—with the exception of the BBC Symphony Orchestra—with player-directors who determine management rather than the other way round. That approach sometimes has problems, too, but player-directors have hands-on knowledge and see all the figures—nothing is hidden from them and their livelihood is at stake if they make mistakes. For many years, Scottish Opera has, despite many requests from the Federation of Entertainment Unions, avoided having employee representatives on the board. To include employees on the board is part of accountability and is not to be feared. Our members are responsible and their livelihoods are at stake. The approach means involvement and a commitment by the work force.Eighty-nine per cent of the SAC budget for the national companies goes to four companies. The key to the SCO's flexibility is the musicians' self-employed status. Like all the others, the SCO gets a share of the budget. Money for folk, rock and jazz comes from the remaining 11 per cent. The answer may be for the national companies to have a directly governable role within the remit of the Executive, so that checks and measures—the kind of hands-on accountability and financial management that Bill Sweeney has described—can be put into place. That should be seriously considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C106282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 106282,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Ian Smith about the importance of the national companies. However, it sticks in my craw that I cannot ask questions about popular music or folk and traditional music, which engage more people than opera does—more people go to folk music performances than go to the opera. Perhaps we can consider those issues on another occasion, convener, because they are also an important part of the cultural strategy for Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C106285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 106285,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but I wanted to make that point first.I am interested in the idea of a national theatre and would like to ask Lorne Boswell a couple of questions. What do you think the effect of a national theatre would be on other Scottish theatres?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 106286,
      "EditedText": "The biggest concern is that it would lead to theatres competing for audiences, but we do not believe that that would happen. There is a blinkered mentality among producing theatres in Scotland, all of which exist on a small or medium scale. The Citizens' Theatre in Glasgow, for example, is a medium-scale theatre, with an audience capacity of between 450 and 600. People tend to forget that the Citz is always head to head with the Theatre Royal and the King's in Glasgow. We hope that a national theatre would operate differently. The spread of theatre companies throughout Scotland has been mentioned. Coverage is patchy. There is no regular producing theatre in Aberdeen or in Inverness. We hope that a national theatre would co-ordinate activity throughout Scotland. Under the current structures of funding for repertory theatre, if, for example, the Citizens' Theatre produced a resounding success in the autumn of one year, that production would just be chopped up and thrown away. A national theatre might recognise that an investment had come to fruition and take that production to Aberdeen, Inverness, Wick or beyond, depending on its means. The role of a national theatre should be complementary; it should operate over and above existing theatres rather than compete with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1058388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 106288,
      "EditedText": "In our submission, we have stated our strong belief that any national theatre should be heavily resourced to provide a service to Scotland's schools. We said that we hoped that it would reach every school in Scotland in the first three years of its existence. That is an ambitious target, but it indicates the importance that we attach to education work. The theatrical community has not been resourced to provide enough activity in schools in Scotland. Tracing the history back, we can see that it was the Stodart reforms in local government that, with one or two notable exceptions, killed off theatre education in Scotland. It is now time to rebuild that. We hope that a national theatre would have a major role in that work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 106289,
      "EditedText": "Over the past few years, the number of co-productions between theatre companies—notably between the Royal Lyceum Theatre Company and Dundee Repertory Theatre—has increased. Repertory companies have also been trying to squeeze more value out of their productions by taking them to other theatres. For example, productions by the Tron have transferred from Glasgow to Edinburgh. Do you feel that such moves are an attempt to find co-production funds or to promote local theatres—or is it a bit of both?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 106292,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of questions on that issue, but I shall first return to the structure of the national companies. You have all pointed out, very eloquently, what you perceive to be the failings of the SAC and the fact that it is not acting in a proper arm's-length way, even if that were a good idea. If the SAC were not involved at all, would you have complete confidence in the way in which the national companies are structured and run? Last week, when representatives of the SAC and Scottish Opera appeared before the committee, nobody was prepared to take responsibility. Ruth Mackenzie accepted that ultimate responsibility might rest with her, but there was a general washing of hands. Nobody said, \"It is my fault.\" Nobody said, \"It is my job to look after this money and ensure that it is used efficiently.\" I am worried that, if the SAC were not there, the independent national companies would still shirk the responsibility and fail to address the problem of delivering quality within their means."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Drew McFarlane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 106293,
      "EditedText": "That is the issue. That is why I said that the jury is still out on whether national companies should be funded directly or through an arm's-length body. I stress that there should be an arm's-length body, although it need not be the SAC. The bottom line for us all—particularly for us as trade unions and for you as members of the Scottish Parliament—is that we have an obligation to ensure that public money is well spent. The organisations that are in receipt of public funding also have that duty, so their internal management structure should be able to establish when there is a blip in a budget and do something about it. More important, there should be stringent monitoring facilities—whether through an arm's-length body or an arm of the Scottish Executive, in whatever form. The newspaper headlines tell us that Scottish Opera is running up a deficit to the tune of £3.5 million. People do not pick up their papers expecting to find what is perceived by many as toffs' culture being pulled back from the brink at everyone else's expense. That cannot be justified. Finances must be stringently monitored and the companies have a duty to monitor their own books."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 2155,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 106294,
      "EditedText": "I am asking whether that is done at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2155,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 106297,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lorne Boswell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 106305,
      "EditedText": "I would have to agree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies",
      "HeadingID": 2155,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 106309,
      "EditedText": "Mr McManus, do you want to add to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 106316,
      "EditedText": "My concern is that we might miss the boat—what we produce might be redundant because the Government will have acted already. I appreciate that its period of consultation is closing, but, as a committee, we need to give the issue proper time. It might be in order to contact the Executive to ask it to be clear about when it wishes to make changes and to ask it whether it can take into account the fact that we will not put forward a view until June."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 106320,
      "EditedText": "Are you asking us to identify today the bodies from which we should seek evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 106323,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I would assume so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Educational Needs",
      "HeadingID": 2156,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ID": 2156,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 106324,
      "EditedText": "Schools such as the blind school, the deaf school and so on should be brought into the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 106330,
      "EditedText": "I am a very helpful person."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 106331,
      "EditedText": "I have a small point. It would be useful if reporters were given some advice on the tax implications of the allowances that they might receive. Members of the press have already asked me about the tax implications of some other allowances. Members would benefit from advice, especially if Mike intends to go to Cannes and Los Angeles because there is such a large budget for reporting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2157,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 106333,
      "EditedText": "I was thinking of one or the other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 106334,
      "EditedText": "Seriously, if there are tax implications, we need to be aware of them. I do not know whether Gillian has any information on that subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 106336,
      "EditedText": "If anybody needs advice or help on that, Gillian or I will contact the allowances office on their behalf.I believe that Gillian has an update on the rugby."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2157,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 519.0,
      "ContributionID": 106338,
      "EditedText": "We do not have an update on that just now.At a previous meeting, we discussed the invitation from the European Forum for Teachers of Religious Education. I would be grateful if some members volunteered to meet the forum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 106344,
      "EditedText": "You will be aware that we asked for submissions. In light of what Nicola Sturgeon has just said, we have to give people reasonable time in which to respond. That means that we could get written submissions up until next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106348",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 106348,
      "EditedText": "We will need to continue discussion on that. Fiona McLeod mentioned the Scottish Youth Theatre; we can take into account the National Youth Orchestra as well. They might have already put in written submissions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 106350,
      "EditedText": "This has been a discussion on the operation of the national companies. A number of strands have come out clearly, on which the committee will wish to take a position. The committee will want to spend some time talking through that, so that there is a definite outcome from the inquiry and it is not left in limbo.Can we agree to meet in private at 9.15 am next Wednesday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2157,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "ContributionID": 106352,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:24."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.1370912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C106339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 531
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters' Remits",
      "HeadingID": 2157,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2157,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ContributionID": 106339,
      "EditedText": "What I have to say might be more appropriate for next week's agenda. It relates to the letter that has just been copied to us from the Scottish Executive education department. I was surprised that it was circulated in that way.We have just had a wide-ranging consultation on the education bill and on proposals to reform the General Teaching Council for Scotland. We are waiting for them to be brought together by the Executive in a revised bill. The minister said that he intended to remove the statutory basis of the Scottish Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff in School Education, but he did not say when he would do that, and there has been no public consultation on it. Now a letter from a Scottish Executive official has been sent to nine organisations, giving them less than two weeks to respond. The letter says that the proposal to abolish the SJNC will be included in the education bill. That is not satisfactory public consultation. Given our discussions about the importance of consultation, I propose that we strongly make our views on that known to the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 23 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 67,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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      "ID": 67,
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    "Person": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 3453,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the public meeting at 13:48"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andrew Welsh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 3454,
      "EditedText": "I welcome everybody to today's meeting. There is one apology, from Andrew Wilson.Today, we are considering the millennium threat, and asking, \"Is Scotland ready?\" Mr Muir Russell, permanent secretary of the Scottish Executive, is our main witness today and the principal accounting officer. I welcome you, Mr Russell, and ask you to introduce your colleague to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 3456,
      "EditedText": "I welcome you both. I remind members that questions should be put directly to Mr Muir Russell, who will invite Mr Craig Russell to respond where appropriate. I hope that there is no confusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 3458,
      "EditedText": "Members of the committee will want to question Muir Russell in detail on the major themes of this report from the Comptroller and Auditor General, \"The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?\" At the end of the meeting, there will be an open session during which members may ask follow-up questions that come to mind.I would like to begin with some general questions to set the context for today's evidence-taking session. What would have happened if the state of year 2000 readiness described in the report had not been reached? In other words, how urgent and important was your work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 3461,
      "EditedText": "I have no wish to send anyone away from this committee with the impression that any of those things will happen, but my own hogmanay plans are more prosaic. I will be in what the parliamentary debate called the bunker, that is, in St Andrew's House, where the information liaison centre will be operating and people will be on duty in the emergency room. That is not to say that we are expecting problems, but we are being prudent and, given my accounting officer responsibilities, it seems sensible for me to be there, to make the coffee or whatever."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 3462,
      "EditedText": "Moving from speculation to reality, will you describe the ways in which Scotland will actually be affected by the year 2000 date change problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 3465,
      "EditedText": "You are right to point out that this report, and a picture of reality, give less comfort about the small business end of the supply chain. Bigger firms have checked through their supply chains and have proactively gone to the small and medium firms that are their suppliers. Therefore, there has been quite a bit of checking from the top end of those supply chains. Certainly, the public sector has done that, as have most of the infrastructure people.The critical factors that would cause the problem of SMEs to manifest itself as a supply chain collapse have been dealt with. Recently, I read a statement from a big company in Scotland, British Energy, which said:\"We have been in discussions with all our key suppliers to satisfy ourselves that their Year 2000 programmes are robust and on track, and that . . . they are addressing the services which they provide to British Energy. Any difficulties identified have been addressed with the other party, and there are no outstanding issues.\"That is just one example, but it is typical of what a lot of big firms will have done. Without wishing to argue with the proposition that is in that paragraph, in supply chain terms a lot of that has been addressed.More generally, we recognise that, as the survey shows, the small business sector still needs to do some work. Throughout this exercise Action 2000 has had the main responsibility for energising the private sector to play its part. It has issued a lot of information and helpful guidance. Craig Russell and his colleagues have involved the private sector in the various conferences and infrastructure forums that have been held to get the message across.Training and information have been provided through the Scottish Executive and the local enterprise company network, and ministers have given encouragement whenever they have had the opportunity. For example, at the end of his statement on 11 November, Henry McLeish emphasised once again the importance, even at this stage, of addressing this issue. A lot of pressure has been put on small businesses, and a lot of help has been given to them. I suggest that the supply chain worry has been looked after to a large degree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 3466,
      "EditedText": "You will understand that the worry is that a small part can cause a large machine to come to a grinding halt—for want of a nail a shoe was lost, and so on. Paragraph 3.27 on page 31 points out that 45 per cent of suppliers to Government and Government agencies did not provide Y2K assurance. It adds that:\"Concrete proof of readiness was lower with no evidence being supplied in most of the cases.\"How much of a problem is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 3467,
      "EditedText": "Chasing the problem down has been a continuous piece of work. Both before and since the report was written, our purchasing people have been in touch with a wide range of our suppliers to check up on them in the same way as I have described the private sector doing. We are on the case and are attempting to get as much assurance as possible about our supply chains."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 3468,
      "EditedText": "Before opening up this issue to the committee, I have a final, general question. Are there elements of the preparations to counter the millennium threat in Scotland that could have been better? How could you have improved what has been done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 3473,
      "EditedText": "Mr Russell, I would like to clear up one or two untidy wee odds and ends. Am I correct in saying that Caledonian MacBrayne has now got a blue rating?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 3474,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 3476,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Information on them was coming through just as the report was about to be published. In both cases, people were waiting for the final assessment of contingency planning, and for one or two other little checks. With CalMac, the whole problem was one winch on one vessel that had to be checked, and that could not be done until the vessel was out of service. That sort of detail held things up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 3477,
      "EditedText": "Why was the Loganair assessment not completed before the national infrastructure forum meeting on 21 October?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 3482,
      "EditedText": "Mr McLeish was as relaxed as you are, but have we any evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 3491,
      "EditedText": "Those assurances have been checked as part of the power generation section of the infrastructure system. It is subject to the same audit procedure and protocols as any other power generating company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C3498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 3498,
      "EditedText": "The convener has indicated the main thrust of my question. I refer you to paragraph 3.15 on page 26, which says that a third of businesses in the small and medium sector\"have an identifiable risk, but are not taking the full range of steps to address Year 2000 issues.\"Do you think that paragraph 3.15 gives an accurate picture of the steps that the small and medium enterprises have taken towards Y2K compliance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 3504,
      "EditedText": "You said that this was a small sample. For the record, could you say how many companies were included in it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 3511,
      "EditedText": "The list to which you refer contains only the Scottish Executive and its executive agencies. As the National Library of Scotland is an non-departmental public body, it would have been picked within a different range. Craig can say in which list we would find that body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 3517,
      "EditedText": "I would like to leave my answer as it is. We should appreciate that the process is a total one; we need to consider what it has been designed to give confidence about. We have done everything that people have spotted in the defined areas. As Craig said, although a substantial infrastructure of other areas did not make it into the list, those areas have been made aware of the problem and are being monitored by our more general systems for NDPBs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 3520,
      "EditedText": "Are not the payroll systems critical?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 3521,
      "EditedText": "Yes, they are critical. Perhaps I slurred over it, but I mentioned that that was one of the areas in the critical frame."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 3522,
      "EditedText": "I refer to figure 14 on page 32, which deals with business continuity planning. The report was completed a while back and I wonder whether you could update the information for us now, particularly the column about testing the continuity planning. The information suggests that seven of the 11 bodies—including the Scottish Executive—had not tested the continuity plans and that some components were missing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 3525,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 3527,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 3.33 on page 34 talks about the overall cost estimates. The figure that is given for the Scottish Executive and its agencies is £4.5 million. Are there any specific figures for the health service or local government?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 3534,
      "EditedText": "So are you saying that money for that purpose was built into the budgets of the Government agencies and other bodies that receive money from the Government? Before we complete our report, could you give us an accurate estimate of the figures that were agreed in advance for the work and of what has actually been spent on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 3535,
      "EditedText": "I have given you figures—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 3541,
      "EditedText": "So could the £434 million that the UK departments have spent on this exercise and the money that you have identified today—about £70 million or £80 million—be used for other purposes?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 3543,
      "EditedText": "Would it also be fair to say that other types of work have been postponed? Have you had to put back other projects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 3544,
      "EditedText": "That must be true, logically. If Craig Russell was not working on this, he would be working on something else. If we were not investing in the liaison centre, we would be spending the money elsewhere.I cannot say what the money would have been spent on otherwise, and I stress that we are talking about relatively small sums, but your point is correct, because in Scotland, we are dealing with a determined total that has to be divided up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 3554,
      "EditedText": "There was a general test exercise on 26 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 3557,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry for interrupting—I just wanted to establish that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 3558,
      "EditedText": "That is all right. We are here to get this right between us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 3559,
      "EditedText": "Have the planning arrangements been enhanced to cope with the additional threat posed by the millennium bug and the celebrations that will be taking place throughout Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 3560,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Earlier, in response to a question about costs, I referred to additional funding for the police, which covers millennium policing costs as well as bug costs. Their systems must be able to deal with the extra pressures to which they will be subject.Ministers are concerned that winter and emergency planning in the health service should be fully up to speed for the hogmanay events. The awareness of people who are managing at the sharp end has been heightened, and they have been given instruction and encouragement to ensure that they are ready."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 3562,
      "EditedText": "Exercise Hydra did not test the extension, which is the Scottish information liaison centre. Exercise Herald tested that to some extent, and Exercise Enterprise on 9 December will further test it. SILC is an overlay, on top of existing emergency planning arrangements. It is there to deal with the additional potential problems that arise from the millennium."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 3563,
      "EditedText": "Have any shortcomings emerged as a result of the tests that have been conducted to date?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 3567,
      "EditedText": "The UK civil contingencies committee must be brought in if there are dimensions of the millennium threat that involve the UK. I believe that there was a one-day exercise for that. Did a Scottish minister participate in that exercise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 3568,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 3569,
      "EditedText": "Would not that have been a good idea?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C3579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 3579,
      "EditedText": "Could you indicate what special arrangements have been made to ensure that sufficient staff from the emergency services will be available over the millennium period to handle the extra incidents that might occur?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C3581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 3581,
      "EditedText": "Are you satisfied that, together with the normal emergency planning procedures, the relevant authorities have taken into consideration the number of individuals who will be within the city boundaries of Glasgow and Edinburgh, in particular on the evening of 31 December?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 3589,
      "EditedText": "I am confident that it has been, but I do not know any more about it than that. If you want me to follow through on that point, I will be happy to provide a note to the committee on just what the pathways are for the responsible body and how independent assessment is being handled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 3593,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned a continuing process between now and the end of the year. I am pleased about that, but what action will you take to advise the general public that SILC is easily contactable should anything go wrong? When will you start advertising that service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 3594,
      "EditedText": "The public will not have direct contact with SILC. MSPs will be able to contact it. Craig Russell and his colleagues are making arrangements for a set of access numbers to be available, because there is often a problem with getting past switchboards on such occasions. SILC will have direct, quick, fail-safe channels out to the various infrastructure providers and emergency services.If people are affected by anything that happens—by an emergency or by a bug-related incident—and want to contact the relevant infrastructure provider, they will do so directly, using the numbers available in the telephone book. We also expect that cut-out-and-keep information will be published in the newspapers during the 10-day period before Christmas. People will contact the providers in the normal way if an emergency occurs.The providers have been learning lessons. For example, Scottish Power has learned some effective lessons from the difficulties faced last year by people in the central belt as a result of the boxing day storms. The company has greatly expanded its ability to cope with a flood of calls. Other companies will take similar action to avoid some of the rather strange occurrences we have seen in the past week or two. People are on the case, making normal systems work better.SILC is about ensuring that there is proper liaison inside the system and that people know what is coming. It will ensure that the people who have to co-operate have ways of getting in touch and co-ordinating, in circumstances when their public face is blocked up by dealing with the client emergency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 3595,
      "EditedText": "That is good. Scare stories have circulated about the emergency services being unable to cope, but you seem confident that they will cope. I am grateful that MSPs will have that hotline number, although I hope that we will not have to use it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 3596,
      "EditedText": "For those who want to visit sunnier climes, we move on to the final section, which is about the overseas situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 3598,
      "EditedText": "This bit of the report is focused on the UK level and does not purport to cover the activity of the Executive. The matter to which you are referring has been handled as part of the UK effort, with Foreign and Commonwealth Office responsibility. I do not want to claim that we have gone beyond what is being done elsewhere. There has been a huge effort, as members can see, to make assessments of what is happening abroad and to give people the best possible advice, but one would not have expected that to be channelled through the Executive or for us to play a significant part in providing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 3601,
      "EditedText": "What assurances can you give about air traffic control for aircraft that take off from Edinburgh, Glasgow and so on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 3605,
      "EditedText": "The best advice is to go through the information channels that are described in this section of the report. There are web addresses from which people can get the best assessments that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has been able to come up with. That is the answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 3611,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a specific answer to that question. I have not heard that it is not. I am not sure that there are dates running in the systems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C3616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 3616,
      "EditedText": "Criminal justice has said that it is blue-compliant, so presumably the tagging systems have been checked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C3618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 3618,
      "EditedText": "It is part of the criminal justice system, through the Scottish Courts Administration, which is blue-compliant. That means that it must have been one of the things that was checked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 3619,
      "EditedText": "That would have been written into the contract. Nearly all contracts that have been let in the past 18 months to two years include a millennium date compliance clause."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C3626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 3626,
      "EditedText": "What consultation has there been between the Scottish Executive and the various insurance companies? I understand that the risks that the insurance companies have indicated they anticipate have sent premiums through the roof, which has meant that many organised events have had to be cancelled. Have you had any discussions with those companies to make them aware of the work that you have been doing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C3628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 3628,
      "EditedText": "Yes, because of the public safety aspect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C3631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 3631,
      "EditedText": "I spend my life travelling along the M8, so I heard about this on the radio today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 3634,
      "EditedText": "We know that 29 February might, and we are on the case there in the sense that the regimes, fixes, tests and so on that have been done for hogmanay take account of that date as well. We are also aware of what are called date discontinuity problems, which could run for a while. In the time available, it was not always possible to put in four-digit dates, and that will have to be put right. The technical world knows that and we will keep the pressure on to ensure that it is done.We will not stop running infrastructure events straightaway. We may run one before 29 February and we will certainly run one early in the new year, on the devil-was-well principle. We need to remind people that some of the fixes that have been done need to be made more permanent. I have not heard it suggested that there is a problem with the proper millennium."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 3637,
      "EditedText": "Once again, I thank both our witnesses for their contribution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 3463,
      "EditedText": "I take the report at face value. We have tried to track down the areas where systems might have gone wrong and to get them fixed, moving from the critical to the non-critical, looking at the embedded chips and so on and then at the millennium operating regimes and contingency plans. I take comfort from the report; it is about the infrastructure and that has been pretty well chased down. I do not think that major things will go wrong.One imagines that there will be bits and pieces in the parts of life that are not covered by the report that go wrong. Some of the literature that has gone out to the public has included things like how to check their video recorder. There may be a few people who do not manage to video the modern equivalent of Andy Stewart. I am not envisaging something disastrous happening. The preparations that have been made give those of us involved in that process a degree of comfort that it has been a pretty thorough job."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 3478,
      "EditedText": "I think that Loganair had a slightly slower start to the exercise. The introduction of the comprehensive approach started just a little bit later for the islands airports than it did for some of the other bits of infrastructure. There were a few discussions with Loganair about whether it should be involved in that, and it was agreed that it should be. It caught up fairly quickly, and the assessment was done, I think, on 2 November by AEA Technology. Quite a lot of the information that we have was collected in August—Craig Russell will keep me right on that—so things that happened a bit later are missing from the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3479",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell (Scottish Executive Year 2000 Project Manager): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 3479,
      "EditedText": "It would be fair to say that the work being done on both the national infrastructure and the independent assessment increased as time went on. Certain things came into the programme much later. It was easy to see that companies such as British Energy should be included in an independent assessment; but originally the view from the centre was that it was not necessary to include small companies such as Loganair. That is why they came in later. It was the Executive that pushed to have them included, because they were lifeline services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 3480,
      "EditedText": "Are lighthouses covered in this National Audit Office report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 3483,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we do. After you raised the question, we wrote to the Northern Lighthouse Board and sought direct assurances. We have since received a letter confirming that the various elements of lighthouse safety have been covered. That confirmation will be in the next statement that Mr McLeish makes to MSPs, as will all the other positive assurances that we have received in answer to questions raised in debate. We have received positive assurance from the Northern Lighthouse Board that there is no problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 3484,
      "EditedText": "I would like to broaden and deepen this discussion, and ask about the scope of the independent assessment of readiness for 2000. How confident is the Executive that essential services will not be materially disrupted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 3488,
      "EditedText": "So you are satisfied that a common criterion has been established by Action 2000 and that the various satisfying authorities have complied with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 3489,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 3492,
      "EditedText": "Unusually in this circumstance, I am a member of the Scottish utilities forum, which brings together all main utilities providers in Scotland. To refer back to one of your earlier questions, Miss Goldie, as an ex-staff inspector, I have had the opportunity to look the utilities providers straight in the eye and, as I said to them, to drink deeply of their soul. To some extent, there has to be an element of trust in all this. Engaging with the individuals and hearing openly and in a closed group what they have to say, in a way which would not normally apply for commercial organisations, tells us considerably more than what is put into the public forum, and has given me considerable comfort over the past year.Like Muir, I would not wish to give an absolute guarantee, but we have gone as far down that road as is reasonably possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 3496,
      "EditedText": "It will have to be, I am afraid. On our way here, we were discussing whether there would be Irn-Bru or Eisberg."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3497",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 3497,
      "EditedText": "Nick Johnston would like you to consider the effect on businesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C3500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 3500,
      "EditedText": "Do you have any further up-to-date information on the situation of small businesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 3501,
      "EditedText": "Nothing that goes beyond the information contained in the document, which was collected in September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 3512,
      "EditedText": "When we expanded the whole public sector programme in May 1998, we carried out a large exercise that covered all public organisations in Scotland. However, at the end of the exercise, it became clear that we were in serious danger of overwhelming ourselves by trying to cover everything. As a result, and because resources are limited, we decided to concentrate on the organisations with the greatest public impact on the delivery of main services. However, the Scottish Executive decided that, instead of excluding such NDPBs from the monitoring process, we should continue to monitor them and get returns from them, which we do. The only difference is that we do not play those figures into the formal returns. It would be an enormous exercise, as it was in May 1998, to get returns from all those areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 3514,
      "EditedText": "In percentage terms, how confident are you that any millennium failures in those bodies will not pose a risk to service provision in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 3515,
      "EditedText": "This question keeps being asked in various forms and I will keep giving the same answer. On the basis of what has been done, I have no reason to believe that there will be any materially disruptive failures. I suppose that that means almost 100 per cent on your percentage scale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3518",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 3518,
      "EditedText": "Figure 13 on page 30 shows that more work is required on non-critical business systems. What sort of systems are non-critical?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3519",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 3519,
      "EditedText": "Let me take the example of the Scottish Executive, which is the first item on the figure 13 list. The critical systems were the office automation package and the systems that handle student awards, pensions, payroll and agricultural subsidies. Those are the big pieces of computing that sit at the heart of many of the Scottish Executive's processes. We move from such systems to systems that deal with flexi-credits for how long people work, for example, and to a variety of smaller-scale statistical packages that people maintain as part of their daily business to produce publications and information. There is also the website and a human resources database that records when people joined us, their qualifications and so on. Those areas are non-critical, as they would not make the business fail within a week or have health and safety implications.We widened the circle to consider areas such as the ones that I have described; there are one or two areas at the tail-end of the convoy that are being dealt with now. If small-scale statistical packages stopped working, it would not make any difference to anybody outside the immediate work area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3524",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 3524,
      "EditedText": "Is the operating regime in a similar state of development and are you satisfied with the progress?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 3526,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add to that. We will continue to refine the operating regime that underlies the bunker until the new year. It has been tested and has been delivered by the required date but—quite rightly—work has not finished on it. We will test it on 9 December and as often as necessary afterwards. It is easy to make assumptions, but assumption is the enemy in this case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 3528,
      "EditedText": "The figures that I have show that £45 million has been spent in the health service. That represents a huge programme of testing, checking and equipment replacement. The report says that 78,000 pieces of equipment have been tested.An additional £10 million was added to the resources of local government, but that will be only a part of what was spent. The Scottish Executive part-funded a managerial post at the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to help manage the process. Local government includes police and £4.7 million was provided to cover additional costs. That includes millennium events as well as the bug. There is a slight crossover between the two categories that I identified. Training for SMEs cost £2.6 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 3529,
      "EditedText": "I think that one of my colleagues might wish to ask further questions about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 3530,
      "EditedText": "I will carry on from what Mr Robson had to say. I note that paragraph 3.33 on page 34 mentions a cost of £4.5 million for millennium compliance work and that a substantial amount has been added to that. Why is there such a discrepancy between that and the UK cost of £434 million? Is that as a result of the other costs that have been identified?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3540",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 3540,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that that is right. Our plans do not go into the next millennium."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 3546,
      "EditedText": "Yes. First, much of our technology will be more modern and will have better software after the exercise. Secondly, the discipline of thinking about one's business and continuity plans will have been of value generally, in terms of how people do their work and of our emergency planning drills. Some investment will be made earlier than it would have been—folk are getting the benefit of new information technology, which enables them to get their business done much more briskly. Craig is more expert than I am, and might want to add to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 3549,
      "EditedText": "Mr Russell, I refer you to page 35 of the report. Are the existing emergency planning arrangements comprehensive, and have they been tested? Have they been enhanced satisfactorily to allow for the millennium bug threat and the millennium celebratory events to which you referred earlier?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
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      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 3552,
      "EditedText": "We test them regularly. They are also tested at UK level, in co-ordinated exercises involving the Home Office and the Cabinet Office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3555",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 3555,
      "EditedText": "There was one immediately before Exercise Herald—we called it Exercise Hydra."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 3566,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 3571,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful to you for that answer.Within the bunker—which we know will contain Mr McLeish and Muir Russell, and, no doubt, a few others—who will be in charge?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3572",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
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      "EditedText": "That is a very good question. I do not want to get in the way of the people who will be operationally in charge, who will have roles assigned to them to communicate with the different bits of the world out there. Let us be clear. If there were an emergency—of a particular nature, such as a water emergency—the senior officials who handled that area of administration would be on call and brought in. They would have various roles assigned to them, including that of deciding what to say to the media and when to call in the minister, if the problem was of that intensity. A set of hierarchies has been defined, but I cannot tell you off the top of my head what those are. Ultimately, unless and until there is a minister around, I will carry the can for what happens in SILC and the Scottish Executive emergency room network on hogmanay. If things escalated—if there were problems—we would, of course, involve ministers, address how to inform the media and decide on the crisis responses that needed to be taken. There is a hierarchy that begins with initial alert responses and continues according to the escalating seriousness of any situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 3576,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3580",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 3580,
      "EditedText": "Those are matters for the managers of the emergency services. There has been debate about overtime, bonuses and so on, but I am reasonably comfortable that those people are in a position to roster their staff so that teams are available and call-out arrangements in place. They are building on the plans that would normally be in place for such a busy time and on their emergency plans. I am pretty comfortable that staff numbers have been considered by the various services and that the plans are in place. Certainly, the Scottish Executive knows who will be there and who will be on call if particular subject-specific emergencies arise. We are arranging rosters to cover quite a long period, so that people know when they might have to come in, when they can relax and when they cannot relax. The Scottish Executive has considered all those factors, and that is typical of what is happening across the board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C3583",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 3583,
      "EditedText": "You are quite emphatic about that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3584",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 3584,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It is only a month away and I am pretty comfortable that the hospital managers, the police and so on have been thinking carefully about how they will deploy resources to handle that evening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 3585,
      "EditedText": "Members who have coastal constituencies are aware that the real fourth emergency service is the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, for which you are not directly responsible—at least, I take it that you are not directly responsible for it. Can you confirm that the agency is not a Scottish Executive responsibility in the context of the millennium? Can you tell us how the agency's emergency preparations will be linked into those of the other emergency services?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 3586,
      "EditedText": "You are right. That agency is not one of our direct responsibilities. As a national agency, it is handled by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions and, therefore, it will have been part of the bigger picture of infrastructure services that is accredited through the DETR. I will ask Craig if he knows precisely what information we have about the state of play. If it turns out that we do not have anything in our archive, we can certainly come back to the committee, but Craig may be able to advise you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3587",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
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      "ID": 103
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
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      "EditedText": "I have two points, the first of which is an enlargement of the emphatic yes. To some extent, these matters have been thought through, in the good civil service way, by a steering group. The SILC steering group comprises representatives of all the parties that will be involved in the programme, including the police. People from the emergency services are participating, and they have contact with the coastguard as part of the normal emergency planning arrangements. That area has therefore been covered; it has not been forgotten. In the event of a boat being in trouble, SILC would play a part in the arrangements for coping with the situation, but the matter would pass from my control to the control of the emergency planning services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3588",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 3588,
      "EditedText": "In the past, there has been concern about large ships using the Minch. Has that been considered in the context of Y2K?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3590",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 3590,
      "EditedText": "I would appreciate that. I call Cathie Craigie to ask about the section on information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3600",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 3600,
      "EditedText": "These assessments are designed to enable people to judge whether that is the case; it is difficult for me to second-guess that. As you say, there is a great deal of speculation and comment of one kind or another about who may have got this right and who may have been taking a chance. I am not able to give you a Scottish Executive guide to which airlines not to fly. I would not be able to do that anyway, but I certainly will not do it for the end of December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3603",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 3603,
      "EditedText": "People should have no fears about taking off from or landing at British airports. What happens to planes after that is a matter for other countries. As Muir said, that is not a matter in which we have dabbled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3604",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 3604,
      "EditedText": "What advice would you give to people who are travelling to other countries?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3608",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 3608,
      "EditedText": "Given that modern IT enables people to access the whole world from the whole world, I suppose that people are better able to access this information from abroad than they are many other things. I hope that the consular service and others will be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3612",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 3612,
      "EditedText": "They must incorporate date and time arrangements. That is the whole point."
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  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3614",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 3614,
      "EditedText": "I know that it will affect only a small number of cases."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3615",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 3615,
      "EditedText": "It is hard to believe that people checking the systems would not have noted that. I do not know the answer because I have not seen a list of the things that have been checked, but I would be happy to look into it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
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      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 3620,
      "EditedText": "Earlier we talked about the non-critical systems. When will they be completed? It is only 38 days to the millennium. Are we not leaving it a bit late?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3622",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 3622,
      "EditedText": "That does not answer my question. Are we not taking this process right down to the wire? Do you not think that we should have completed it much earlier?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3623",
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      "ID": 103
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 3623,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps, in an ideal world. I was asked what I would have done differently. It was almost inevitable that something would be at the end of the queue, and that that would be a non-critical small internal system. To that extent, I think that this is not something that we should worry about. The point that you have made is a fair one: if we had had more resources and more time, it would have been be nice to have completed these systems sooner. However, we would then have run the risk of falling into another trap that is identified in the document—of thinking that we had got everything out of the way months ago, forgetting about it and not keeping our foot on the accelerator right up until 31 December."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3624",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 3624,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise another possible fear, so that you can respond to it. What assurances can you give about nuclear power stations?"
    },
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  },
  {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 3630,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I spend my life shifting from one crisis to another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 3632,
      "EditedText": "Never pay attention to what you hear on the radio.The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities ran a seminar with Zurich Insurance Company after the issue of public insurance liability was raised. I am not sure about your point about premiums going through the roof; even if I were, I doubt whether I would comment on it. However, insurance companies have concerns and have indicated that they will not cover certain types of event. Those do not include the street party in Edinburgh, which is insured in an entirely different way because it is run in a different way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 3636,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell (Permanent Secretary, Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 3455,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your welcome, convener. My colleague is Mr Craig Russell—no relation. He is the team leader and has overall responsibility in the Scottish Executive for the year 2000 project."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 3457,
      "EditedText": "We will do our best."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 3459,
      "EditedText": "It was clearly urgent and important. Those who have seen some of the speculation on what can go wrong—stories that have been rather alarmist—can draw their own conclusions about what might have gone wrong. We have worked through the systems in the Executive and through the infrastructure systems to track down all the things that might have gone wrong, to see for ourselves that go right. I do not want to offer a catalogue of possible disasters such as the non-payment of pay or subsidies or pensions, but those areas were our highest priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 3460,
      "EditedText": "Will you be travelling abroad over Christmas and new year? Would you say that no one need have qualms about doing so: aircraft will not fall out of the sky, ships sinks or trains come to a halt?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3464",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 3464,
      "EditedText": "The vast majority of businesses in Scotland are small and medium enterprises. They supply to larger organisations and may be crucial to their operations. On page 26 of the report, you point out that over a third of such small businesses have an identifiable risk. Could that be an Achilles heel for large organisations that are otherwise on target for the millennium? What is the identifiable risk and what is being done about it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 3469,
      "EditedText": "You will trap me into sounding very smug."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 3470,
      "EditedText": "That could be dangerous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 3471,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that we could have found ways of doing things earlier, or more quickly or cheaply, or that we could have involved more people. I am sure that, with hindsight, something will be spotted. However, the whole construct has been to scope what constitutes the infrastructure and the processes, to find the people who drive the things through and to go on to the stage of independent assessment that comes through in the report. I do not think that I would want to change any of that. With only 40 or so days to go, we have been able to produce a report that covers the ground very well. That suggests that the basic framework has been about right in terms of content and timing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 3472,
      "EditedText": "If, historically, the witness proves to have been disastrously wrong, I guess the bunker is the best place to be.Annabel Goldie wants to ask some questions on essential services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 3475,
      "EditedText": "And Loganair?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 3481,
      "EditedText": "I do not think so. I know that you raised that point on 11 November in Parliament, after which we took the trouble to check. There is no problem. Lighthouses have been checked and are regarded as entirely okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 3485,
      "EditedText": "The target is no material disruption. We are confident that all the processes have been gone through and that we will achieve that target. That is what this whole process has been about: giving that degree of confidence, by checking in all the ways that we have checked.Given my exchanges with the convener, I am a little reluctant to offer an absolute, 100 per cent, personal guarantee. However, we are getting as close as we can to that, when a process such as this has been gone through and checked by so many authoritative people at each different stage and at each different level. If I sound cagey, it is because I am not in the business of giving guarantees. However, I have given you my clear judgment, based on what we have done, on what we know and on what we have seen from all the auditing and checking that has been done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3486",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 3486,
      "EditedText": "I acknowledge what you are saying and fully understand the reasons for your sensitivity, but can you be confident that the independent assessments that have been commissioned by the Executive have been undertaken to a common standard? They concern a very wide range of organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3487",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 3487,
      "EditedText": "The rules of engagement in the assessments have been driven by central guidance and central protocols from Action 2000. A standard is being applied across the UK. A broad range of responsible, expert people is doing the assessment. They were chosen as people who knew the sectors that they were going to examine. For example, the Accounts Commission has been involved in local government. Examining some of the operational sectors, the work has been done by major engineering consultants, who have the appropriate familiarity with those sectors.The protocol—the handbook of things that need to be looked at—is always there to back up the work at each stage, from the technical fixes through to the assessment of what the business is about, what might go wrong, how to achieve continuity planning and which things to stop doing before Christmas to avoid being at risk if anything should happen in one's own area or elsewhere. All those layers of work have been set out and checked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 3490,
      "EditedText": "What about the wider sector? What information do you have on assurances of no material disruption from Scottish organisations such as Scottish Power?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 3493,
      "EditedText": "I thank you, and hope that drinking deeply of their soul was not too indigestible an experience for them.With regard to the assurances that, I accept, both of you are giving to the best of your knowledge and belief, what do you consider the remaining risks to no material disruption over the millennium period? If you are aware of any such risks, how are you addressing them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 3494,
      "EditedText": "We do not know of any risks that we are planning for and have not addressed; there is nothing that we know will go wrong and will have to be dealt with. That is the short answer to your question. However, who knows what will happen? The odd thing may turn up, and we will need to be able to cope with it.Many other things will be happening at the millennium. We need to distinguish between conventional emergency preparation arrangements—this event will be happening in the middle of winter and the middle of the night and half a million people will be down the road enjoying themselves—and liaison on the millennium bug."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 3495,
      "EditedText": "The bunker will be an area of spartan, sterile abstinence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 3499,
      "EditedText": "I have no reason to challenge it. The figures come from telephone interviews based on small samples, so one could argue about some of the fluctuations from wave to wave. However, I have no basis for challenging the statement to which you refer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C3502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 3502,
      "EditedText": "Can you quantify the risk to the economy and jobs in Scotland of failures in this sector?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 3503,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that has been quantified. The total effect of the risks that have been identified is unclear. We have dealt at some length with the supply chain interdependencies, but I cannot put a figure on the investment and, consequently, jobs that will be affected. Responsibility lies with the private sector. I have described the responsibilities of Action 2000—the information, help and advice that it has provided and the events that it has run. Those were designed to alert the private sector to what it needs to think about and what it needs to do. There comes a point at which the private sector has to make a judgment about whether the problem is serious and where the balance of advantage lies. We will have to wait and see what that judgment adds up to.Because the survey information does not indicate 100 per cent preparedness, people in my position and ministers have naturally been continuing to emphasise and support Action 2000's efforts to improve the figure. However, people out there have to listen to those messages and do something about the problem"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 3505,
      "EditedText": "A few hundred companies out of 300,000 SMEs will have responded. I am not saying that sampling techniques have not been properly worked out, but there have been fluctuations of a few percentage points here or there, which means that the real figure might be anywhere between 65 and 70 per cent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C3506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 3506,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that, even at this late stage, it would be worth organising more events to bring the potential problem to the attention of the SMEs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 3507,
      "EditedText": "Over the next month, we will continue with a programme of ministerial statements and appropriate publicity. That will be designed to get across what the Executive thinks are the right messages about the bug. We need to raise awareness without being alarmist and to be confident without being complacent. In this area, those are difficult balances to strike. I am pretty sure that no opportunity will be lost to remind small and medium businesses that they need to make checks, even at this late stage. We will continue to raise awareness over the next month. Anyone in the real world must be aware of the problem. I have a folder here with much of the Action 2000 material that has been issued. There is plenty of Government information available on the internet and in libraries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C3508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 3508,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to make the point that 35 per cent of businesses know that there is a risk and have done nothing about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 3509,
      "EditedText": "We will now have questions on the state of readiness. I call Paul Martin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 3510,
      "EditedText": "Mr Russell, on page 30 of the report, paragraph 3.25 and figure 13 show the coverage of monitoring returns that have been given by the Executive to the Cabinet Office. Why are some Scottish bodies such as the National Library of Scotland not included in those returns?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 3513,
      "EditedText": "That does not mean that the other bodies have not been doing anything."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3516",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 3516,
      "EditedText": "Would that be 99.9 per cent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3523",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 3523,
      "EditedText": "I have made sure that I could update you on that. The report was put together using September 1999 returns, which were completed in August. As the report was going to print, we let the NAO know that the continuity plans of the Scottish Executive and the executive agencies were complete and were being tested. They have now been tested and no problems have been found, but we will keep refining and checking the plans. The information liaison centre was tested on 26 October and will be tested again on 9 December. Lessons that we learn will feed into the continuity plans and the operating regime."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 3531,
      "EditedText": "There is a difficulty with classification in issues such as this. That £4.5 million represents money spent that would not otherwise have been spent—that spend is attributable to getting things right for the millennium. I do not know whether the £434 million includes things that other departments would normally have done, such as installing new, and therefore millennium-compliant, computer systems. The calculation of the figures that we have given was not based on money that would have been spent anyway.Within the £434 million, the figures for the Department of Health in England show up as about £12 million or £13 million. Its exercise will be equivalent to the one on which we have spent £4.5 million. Comparison of the figures is an inexact science."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 3532,
      "EditedText": "Would I be right in thinking that all the expenditure—the £434 million, the £4.5 million, the £45 million and so on—has been funded from within existing budgets?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 3533,
      "EditedText": "All that has been spent will have been included in the budgets for the years in which the money was spent. The expenditure was built into the forecasts that we made for the running costs of the Scottish Executive for this year and for the Scottish Office last year. Budgets allowed for the expenditure, but whether we got the figures right is an open question. I think that we were pretty close to what we budgeted for the Scottish Executive. The expenditure was allowed for in the budgets that we started the year with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 3536,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that people spent money that was not allocated. I am not making accusations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 3537,
      "EditedText": "It is fair that you should want information about the whole picture. The £4.5 million is for the Scottish Executive and its agencies. I have a table before me that shows how the sums add up. The Executive accounts for £2.3 million and Historic Scotland and other such agencies account for the rest. If the NAO had wanted to include a health service figure in the report, it would have. We would be happy to look into what has been provided and what has been spent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 3538,
      "EditedText": "I want to explain the difference between the Scottish spend and the British spend. The Y2K problem is not peculiar to Scotland and there is an element of reciprocity in the spend: the equipment that is used in the NHS is similar throughout the UK. That means that if equipment is tested somewhere, it need not be tested elsewhere. Also, a number of agencies are British in nature, not Scottish, so the spending in some UK departments covers Scottish infrastructure. It is difficult to break down the spend into narrow bands. I have tried to explain part of it, but I doubt whether anyone could explain it all in detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 3539,
      "EditedText": "Would it be fair to say that the money is non-recurring and that we would not expect those moneys to be available in the next financial year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 3542,
      "EditedText": "It is fair to assume that those resources will have been put into different bits of the budget for future years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 3545,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Executive has undertaken a fairly significant auditing exercise. Have there been benefits for the public or private sectors other than the immediate one of resolving the millennium problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 3547,
      "EditedText": "There is also the benefit of the relationships that have been established, particularly in the commercial sector, between companies that previously would have held certain information to be commercially confidential. Considerably more is now known about the interdependencies than before we started the exercise. The importance of that cannot be underplayed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 3548,
      "EditedText": "We will now move on to the emergency planning arrangements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 3550,
      "EditedText": "The plans are comprehensive. There are general emergency drills in what used to be the home department, and there are plans to deal with business-specific problems that might arise, such as pollution and water incidents. Our drills focus on particular groups of administrative and professional officials who have the expertise and contacts with the local authorities and quangos that are working in the area affected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 3551,
      "EditedText": "Have the plans been tested recently?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 3553,
      "EditedText": "Do we know when the previous test took place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 3556,
      "EditedText": "That was in mid-October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 3561,
      "EditedText": "That is helpful. Did the test in mid- October take into account the new arrangements that have been put in place, such as the Scottish Executive emergency room—the bunker—and the Scottish Executive co-ordinating committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 3564,
      "EditedText": "It would be seriously remiss of me to suggest that any test went absolutely correctly. From the point of view of the operational director in the first hour, Herald was a complete storm of paper, by which I was totally overwhelmed. If nothing else, we learned how to control the volume of paper that can spew forth from nine or 10 faxes in an hour. We have learned lessons. We learned that, if we have to bring all those people together into one room, simple things are needed such as coloured paper, so that it can be made clear whether a report is from the power side, the water side, or whatever. It did not go absolutely smoothly, but it went well; it certainly went better than I expected, but that is not to underplay the lessons that we learned. We will attempt the test again on 9 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 3565,
      "EditedText": "In the meantime, is action being taken to address those shortcomings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 3570,
      "EditedText": "To some extent, the non-participation reflects the difference that has arisen because of the way in which we have structured the system in Scotland. We have a much smaller community, and SILC is not replicated in the rest of the United Kingdom. In most other instances, the chains of communication are conspicuously longer. They go from the sector to the department, from the regulator to the department, and from the department to the Cabinet Office. Ours come directly to our central SILC group, then go directly from there to the Cabinet Office. Therefore, we can apply intelligence at source. I can question someone from British Telecom or the power sector to ask, \"What is the implication of this?\" then determine whether it is necessary to forward information to the Cabinet Office. The way in which our system operates is somewhat different, which is why we are doing the additional test on 9 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 3573,
      "EditedText": "Given that Mr McLeish, in all fairness, intends to be present, will he be the Executive figure with responsibility for what happens, or are there arrangements for other ministerial contact?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 3574,
      "EditedText": "There would certainly be arrangements for other ministerial contact if something was happening that engaged the interests of the Minister for Health and Community Care, for example, or the Minister for Children and Education. They would be contacted—there are no two ways about that. We might rely on telephone contact if they were not in Edinburgh, or they might be able to get to one of our other offices—we would play it as sensibly as we could.The essence of the SILC idea is to have a series of layers of communication potential, so that, if there were problems with one method of communication, we would have triple redundancy—I think that is what Craig calls it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 3575,
      "EditedText": "How tempting. Laughter. I revert to my earlier point, to which Craig Russell was helpfully responding. Can you assure us that you are satisfied that the arrangements that allow the Scottish Executive co-ordinating committee to call on the resources of the UK civil contingencies committee will handle satisfactorily any emergency that arises?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 3577,
      "EditedText": "How rigorous were the assessments of the fire, police and health care services? What monitoring arrangements are in place to ensure that the blue status is maintained?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 3578,
      "EditedText": "As I said, the health service assessments were rigorous. We heard how much had been spent on the absolutely enormous range of checks that were made. The other services were checked as part of the framework, which is explained in the report, and members can see who the independent assessors were. Our professional experts, including HM chief inspector of constabulary and HM inspectorate of fire services, carried out the exercise on the basis of the published information on what needed to be done that was provided by Action 2000. Information technology or other technological professional expertise was acquired for them. There was a solid basis on which they carried out that work, which is why we have this degree of confidence. However, your point is well taken. No one is assuming that they can relax because a check was made a while ago. We have been explaining the business of polishing up the rules and regimes, and that will continue until the end of the month."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 3582,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.639369+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 3591,
      "EditedText": "Action 2000 has been able to provide a UK-wide publicity campaign to advise the public about the readiness or otherwise of the UK to deal with the millennium bug. Paragraph 3.19 on page 29 states that the Scottish Executive has held\"Scottish Infrastructure Conferences aimed at senior executives\"and\"Scottish Infrastructure Forum events . . . designed to spread good practice and share information\",and has\"implemented a Year 2000 media strategy aimed at encouraging senior executives in business to take appropriate action and remain vigilant about Year 2000 risks\".What action has been taken to inform the Scottish public about the position of local organisations assessed under the UK national arrangements?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 3592,
      "EditedText": "Those outcomes have derived from the central efforts that you describe. Since the Executive was created, we have been marching in step with the announcements that Margaret Beckett has been making in London. As the blue ratings have come through, the readiness of services is something that has been publicised reasonably well.Good news tends not to be publicised—that's life. However, we have thought carefully about getting the right pitch in the strategy. As I said, one wants to convince people and to make them aware of what might have happened and what is being done. We wanted to raise awareness without alarming people and that is what we have been trying to do. We have also tried to give people confidence in what has been done without giving the impression that we are complacent. That would be wrong, as we need to keep the pressure on right to the end.All those conferences have been helpful. Ministers have made news releases about their various functional areas: Angus MacKay for the justice elements; Peter Peacock for education; and Susan Deacon for health. Mr McLeish's speech in Parliament just 10 days ago got quite good coverage. We have also arranged a number of visits to utilities, banks and so on, and will back those up by press releases. That is what has happened so far.The media will be invited to view the SILC operation on 17 December and we will try to get coverage of that event. Again, we will show that we are confident but not complacent. Explanations will be given about what has been done and what will be done during the festive period. We will be pushing out information over the next wee while. There will not be a huge escalation of publicity that will say, \"Things are all wonderful\", or \"You've been saved\" or whatever. Instead, there will be a gentle, continuing push to demonstrate in appropriate ways what has been done and what we think will happen next."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C3597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 3597,
      "EditedText": "Or wetter climes—I am going to Ireland.Paragraph 4.12 states that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office website had had over 250,000 hits by mid-October. That shows that there is much interest in what is happening abroad. What work has the Executive undertaken to identify the effects on Scotland of overseas failures?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C3599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 3599,
      "EditedText": "I can fully understand that. However, do you feel that there may be any remaining risks in this area of which we should be aware? From what we have heard this afternoon and in previous debates, it is clear that we have been incredibly proactive. Other countries seem to have taken a less robust attitude towards the problem and to be waiting about to see what may happen, rather than preparing for all eventualities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 3602,
      "EditedText": "Air traffic control is a key part of our infrastructure and has been checked thoroughly. To the best of my understanding, it is well into the blue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 3606,
      "EditedText": "Setting aside the scare stories, we should bear in mind that no airline will fly into danger because the costs that it would incur in litigation if it were known to be flying somewhere that was unsafe would not be sustainable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 3607,
      "EditedText": "Paragraphs 4.14 and 4.16 indicate that people have to trawl through a fair amount of information to get to the relevant bits. Do you regard as satisfactory the provision of information to people who may be overseas over the millennium period, as I will be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 68,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 3609,
      "EditedText": "We now move into an open session. Do members have any further questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 3610,
      "EditedText": "Currently, there is an interesting experiment under way in the justice system in Scotland with electronic tagging. Has anyone given any thought as to whether that will be Y2K-compliant?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 3613,
      "EditedText": "We would be happy to check and come back to you on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 3617,
      "EditedText": "Electronic tagging is not prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 3621,
      "EditedText": "The report estimated that there were 13 left; that was at the end of September. We reckon that three or four have not yet been completed. They are the tiny things to which I referred and will be completed in good time, in the early part of December. I am seriously unworried about any of the small systems, even if they were not completed. However, they will be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 3625,
      "EditedText": "They have been very thoroughly and fully checked. People are not daft and nuclear power stations were at the top of the critical list—or should I say, the list of things that need to be looked at with care and attention. I should not use the word critical in the nuclear power context, and I apologise for that. However, there was considerable inspectorate input in that area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 3627,
      "EditedText": "Are you referring to organised millennium events?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 3629,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid that I do not know about how those events are insured, but I suspect that the fact that Craig is nodding indicates that he does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 3633,
      "EditedText": "You said that there was no likelihood of recurring expenditure in this area. Can we take it from that the alternative millennium date of 01/01/01 is not expected to cause any difficulties with IT systems?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 3635,
      "EditedText": "If there are no more questions, I will thank both our witnesses on behalf of the committee for their responses during what has been a very long session. The clerk to the committee will write to you if the committee requires any additional written information or evidence. I hope you do not mind remaining seated for a moment, as we must make one more decision.The committee now needs to consider its response to the evidence that it has heard today, and what additional information it requires as it begins to draft its report on this subject. I suggest that it would be appropriate if those discussions were held in private. Is it agreed that the rest of the meeting be held in private?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Muir Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 3638,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for showing such courtesy in listening to us. The discussion was very enjoyable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 19
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“The Millennium Threat: Is Scotland Ready?”",
      "HeadingID": 68,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 68,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 3639,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 15:27."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6549952+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 666121,
      "EditedText": "Do you therefore accept that regular updating in the light of new technology is part of the process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 666123,
      "EditedText": "You offered some information and, without betraying the confidence of the organisation that you were working for, are you saying that you were called in to carry out specific monitoring for local authorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 666124,
      "EditedText": "Yes, local authorities and schools, on exposures in playgrounds or in housing estates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 666126,
      "EditedText": "We have carried out a number of surveys in relation to transmission aerials on top of or adjacent to schools and on public buildings. We have consistently found that the measurements are many times less than the ICNIRP or the NRPB guidelines recommend. There is no reason to believe that the readings would be any different for a mast whose levels we have not measured, but we respond to requests whenever we can and carry out tests when we can.The transfer of information is important. We run training courses for local authorities. In the UK, we run them in collaboration with the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health. We want environmental health officers and planning officers to come on the courses, which are extensive. We do that to enable the officials to transfer the information to their elected representatives and the public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666127",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 666127,
      "EditedText": "What expertise does the NRPB have in relation to the impact on health of emissions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 666129,
      "EditedText": "Our biologists, physicists and engineers have been sought by the WHO and ICNIRP to provide input into their standing committee. Obviously, our expertise is recognised by those bodies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 666130,
      "EditedText": "Most of the surveys and measurements to which Alastair has referred were carried out under contract. We realise that other people might be interested in those measurements so we are putting all that information into a report that we will publish in early January 2000. It will give comprehensive information on exposure levels near a range of different base stations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 666135,
      "EditedText": "In your answer, Alastair, could you also address the issue that we heard earlier about the fact that Italy has guidelines for very low levels of emission? How do we stand compared with the rest of Europe? If we want to fit in with Europe-wide parameters, how do we compare with countries such as Italy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 666139,
      "EditedText": "In those cases we are talking about people getting to within two or three metres of the mast, and we are deciding whether the exclusion zone should be 2 m, 3 m or 5 m. We are not talking about the 20 m or 30 m zone on the ground well beneath the base station."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 666140,
      "EditedText": "Could you give some clarification to someone of a totally non-scientific mind? If the guidelines for levels are set a lot higher than the levels that are happening in practice, that leaves room for levels to rise, until they reach the guidelines. Five years from now, the emissions could be at the level of your guidelines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 666146,
      "EditedText": "The fact that our guidelines are a lot wider than those in other countries means that people here could be faced with higher levels of health damage than in other countries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 666149,
      "EditedText": "Oh no—I was not suggesting that. I was merely saying that if people are arguing that there is a problem with base stations because the guidelines are three or five times less restrictive, that would be a specious argument. With no other implications, I am just pointing out that the levels are much lower than the guidelines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C666153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 666153,
      "EditedText": "I can understand where Linda is coming from. I have read that the NRPB's thresholds have reduced over the years. At the same time, we have seen how workers in dockyards have been affected by the dosages that they have been exposed to.For years, people told us that we should not worry about tobacco. Then they told us that we should not worry about BSE or beef on the bone. Where does the credibility factor come in? If, over the years, your thresholds come down, it leaves lay people such as ourselves very concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 666154,
      "EditedText": "Sir Richard Doll identified a problem with tobacco in the 1950s. He chairs our advisory group on non-ionising radiation and he has taken a particular interest in the possible effects of such radiation. He would be the first to say that there was a problem if he felt that there was one. It has taken a long time for the information about tobacco to percolate down to where it matters. He has been influential in a number of epidemiological fields and he is a very good person to chair our independent advisory group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 666161,
      "EditedText": "I come to this as an outsider, who was not involved in the development of what we might call ICNIRP's two-tier standard or its forerunner—the two-tier standard derives from ICNIRP's predecessor organisation. The people involved in the international non-ionising group 10 or 15 years ago were also concerned with the work of the international group on ionising radiation—the International Commission on Radiological Protection. We have clear evidence from animal studies, cellular studies and human epidemiology that exposure to ionising radiation can cause cancer. We know that it damages DNA directly and can initiate cancer development. While the information on dose response has changed, we have felt for many years that any radiation dose can cause cancer—the greater the dose, the greater the risk.When ICRP set standards for occupational exposure, it was seeking to establish an acceptable risk. It felt that for people who were occupationally exposed, a higher risk might be more acceptable than for members of the public, because in the one case the risk is voluntary and in the other it is involuntary. There are issues there that we could discuss but probably do not need to. The scientists involved carried over what they were doing on ionising radiation to non-ionising radiation. The problem is that we do not have dose-response information for non-ionising radiation, which means that the basis for a two-tier standard is nowhere near as solid as it is with ionising radiation. Those are I believe the circumstances that have led to our having a two-tier standard for non-ionising radiation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 666164,
      "EditedText": "Do the beams tend to intersect? Can there be effects from more than one pulse?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 666167,
      "EditedText": "Everybody is trying to get their heads round everything being okay because the guidelines are much higher than the levels that people are suffering. I find that a difficult concept—we can perhaps return to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 666172,
      "EditedText": "That is a question to address to the industry. The technology as far as the impact of one device on another is concerned is quite amazing but, in general, the situation is as I outlined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 666174,
      "EditedText": "We have to be aware of what might be about to happen in future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 666178,
      "EditedText": "You have done some work for them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 666187,
      "EditedText": "What is the difference between thermal and athermal effects? We have also had the term non-thermal, which I presume is the same as athermal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 666188,
      "EditedText": "Thermal effects refer to damage caused by heating, which our guidelines should ensure do not happen. People have expressed concern about athermal effects and about whether mobile phone radiation could have some implication for cancer-development, or affect brain function. We do not believe that there are any established effects that could be used to set standards.We have said that we support the need for research, however. Alastair McKinlay chaired an expert group set up by the European Community in 1996 to find out what research needs to be done on epidemiology, experimental studies and cellular studies to improve the basis on which standards are set. Although it takes time for research ideas to be included in European framework for research programmes, we believe that the EC work will produce some worthwhile research."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 666189,
      "EditedText": "What limits has your organisation advised for thermal and non-thermal effects? What is the practical impact of those limits on, for example, specific equipment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 666202,
      "EditedText": "EU recommendations were agreed to this year and the ICNIRP guidelines were published in 1998."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 666203,
      "EditedText": "And you have not felt it necessary to review NRPB guidelines? 1993 is quite a long time ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 666205,
      "EditedText": "The Government, the committees and all the other bodies have to come to a wider judgment, as that is part of their job. Are you aware of much wider scientific research into this? Do you contribute to it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 666212,
      "EditedText": "That is quite a throwaway line."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 666215,
      "EditedText": "Studies, such as that published by Mike Repacholi, have tried to find evidence of that. Mike Repacholi is examining how radiation might affect the way in which cancer develops in animals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 666216,
      "EditedText": "Do you believe that there is a risk that radiation may very well have that effect?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 666217,
      "EditedText": "It is something that should be looked at."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 666221,
      "EditedText": "That is right. We see a need for more research; we have said that for a number of years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 666225,
      "EditedText": "I would say the same thing. However, we can contrast the research on radio-frequency radiation with that on ionising radiation. We understand the mechanisms of DNA damage by ionising radiation. We know that cellular studies can result in the transformation of cells into a type of cell that might be malignant if it were present in a person. We know from animal studies that ionising radiation can cause cancer and that tumours have been seen in animals. There are many epidemiological studies on humans—human health studies—that show that exposure to whole or partial body radiation can cause cancer. We have no such evidence for exposure to radio frequencies.It could be argued that such research is lagging behind and that studies have not been done to the same extent, but some information is available on people who have been exposed to high-frequency radar, for example, that does not suggest that exposure to radio frequencies can cause cancer. Nevertheless, there is a need to examine radiation from those specific technologies in well-controlled epidemiological and animal studies to discover whether there are implications that we do not believe exist at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 666226,
      "EditedText": "You acknowledge, therefore—perhaps intuitively, rather than scientifically—that there may be a risk. Is that the basis for saying that there should be more research to identify and eliminate such a risk?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 666227,
      "EditedText": "I am saying that we should examine the issue to see whether there is a risk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 666228,
      "EditedText": "Given the concerns and uncertainty that exist on the subject, is not there a compelling argument for adopting a precautionary approach? I find it difficult to accept the argument in your submission that there is no scientific basis for what you call the prudent avoidance theory. The implication is that this is a matter not for you, but for the Government. I would have thought that you would consider it important to adopt such a principle. I understand that, philosophically, you cannot prove a negative, but there must be a fairly heavy case for presuming that if concern and anxiety exist, the matter should be examined closely and we should be as careful as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 666233,
      "EditedText": "We stress again that we give advice across the electromagnetic spectrum. Our advice is not just about emissions from mobile phones or base stations—we are concerned about the whole spectrum. Our advice is generic—in this case, it relates specifically to particular items of instrumentation. However, our advice is not about the instrument, but about exposure to a range of radio and other frequencies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 666234,
      "EditedText": "I am quite happy with that. I think that we have established that there is a purist approach on the basis of science, but a widespread recognition that there are other characteristics and influences that will be relevant for the committee to take into account, just as they would be for the Government. So long as we understand that differentiation and no one is saying that we should not examine those other issues, we should be quite happy with that evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 666235,
      "EditedText": "My first question goes back to the acceptable standard or level. There is a two-tier standard in Europe—occupational and public. Can I ask where the UK level fits into that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 542.0,
      "ContributionID": 666236,
      "EditedText": "The UK level is consistent with the occupational guideline."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 544.0,
      "ContributionID": 666237,
      "EditedText": "So our general level is consistent with Europe's occupational level?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ContributionID": 666239,
      "EditedText": "Do you know what the American standard is and where it fits in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 552.0,
      "ContributionID": 666241,
      "EditedText": "The higher of the ICNIRP standards?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 554.0,
      "ContributionID": 666242,
      "EditedText": "No. The Americans have a two-tier standard, but it is not based on occupational and public exposure. There is another dimension—their standard is based on controlled and uncontrolled exposure, in terms of the control that one has over the devices or the exposure conditions. Their two-tier standard is similar to the ICNIRP standard, although not in all respects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 558.0,
      "ContributionID": 666244,
      "EditedText": "Our standard is approximately the same as the American occupational standard in the same way that our standard is the same as the ICNIRP occupational standard. There are additional differences that we have not touched upon. The difference between basic restrictions and field levels has important philosophical and practical implications. Some of our field levels would be less than the ICNIRP levels under certain circumstances, one of which relates to the exposure of small children. We recognise from the physical interaction of radio waves with the body that body size is important in terms of the frequency at which it is most efficient at absorbing waves—the smaller the body, the higher the frequency at which the body is efficient. We take that into consideration. However, that is a dosimetric problem that does not relate to biology or to the basic restrictions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 560.0,
      "ContributionID": 666245,
      "EditedText": "You said that a value judgment has to be made. Can you clarify who in the NRPB makes the value judgment? Is it the board? In what way is the board qualified to make such judgments? Is the board made up of medical people and scientists?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 666251,
      "EditedText": "Will you let all members have a copy of those lists?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 666255,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that the ceiling and roof of a flat would provide enough protection?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 666259,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for putting up with our lack of scientific knowledge and our doggedness in finding answers to our questions. We appreciate your presence today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 604.0,
      "ContributionID": 666266,
      "EditedText": "Having had many years both working and living experience of the Clyde ferries, I think that the issue may not just be about the revenue receipts, but about the cost of running specific ferries. Tavish Scott would probably agree with me. It concerns the wider scrutiny of Caledonian MacBrayne and ferry services in general. I would like to give some assurance to the petitioner that we are asking for a wider investigation than that of the revenue receipts alone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 606.0,
      "ContributionID": 666267,
      "EditedText": "I support the principle of what Linda is saying. We need to deal not only with the individual petition, but with the wider question of sea transport. I hope that we will find some time in our busy work programme for that area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 611.0,
      "ContributionID": 666269,
      "EditedText": "In regard to the work programme to December 1999, two meetings are scheduled for the period prior to the Christmas recess. It would therefore be useful to confirm what activities we wish to undertake between now and December. At our next meeting we will take evidence from local authorities and from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on the telecoms inquiry in which we are involved. In addition, we are expecting some statutory instruments to be referred to us.I suggest the following action and I am happy to receive any comments or additions from members. In the committee's scheduled time prior to Christmas, it will be necessary to consider the statutory instruments that will come our way. There will be scheduled time in private at our meeting on 15 December to consider the forward approach to the telecoms inquiry. The private discussion will concern our current position on that matter and where we expect to go with it. The committee can carry forward further discussion on concessionary fares to our meetings between January and July 2000. In other words, we realise that that is an area of work with which we wish to proceed and that we should schedule time in the 15 December meeting to receive petitions.We are advised that one area that could come our way in time for that meeting is the national waste strategy. As members will recollect, we have discussed that as an area of interest on a number of occasions. If it is compatible with our schedule and if the document has been published, it might be possible to have the Minister for Transport and the Environment along to discuss the strategy. That would be a good starting point for a discussion on that area. At that meeting, we would request the clerk to put together a detailed work programme to take us from January to July 2000. Given that we have only two meetings left this year, we know how effectively we can fill them. Is that agreed by the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 613.0,
      "ContributionID": 666270,
      "EditedText": "I want to make a couple of points. First, the telecommunications inquiry has been a learning curve for us, because we have conducted it in considerable depth. That gives us some indication of how long it takes to do something properly and of the need both to be thorough and not to get totally bogged down in an issue. It is important to strike a balance, as we need to keep our work topical and moving forward.I know that Murray Tosh has raised concerns about the current state of the water industry, which most members share. There are real concerns about charging. Some areas of Scotland may have the highest prices in the United Kingdom. We need to structure our programme in a way that allows us to find time to consider issues of that sort, although I will take your advice on that, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 615.0,
      "ContributionID": 666271,
      "EditedText": "I sympathise with Tavish Scott's view. As committee members are aware, we are expecting further briefing on the water industry. When that information is available, I will try to incorporate it into our work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 627.0,
      "ContributionID": 666277,
      "EditedText": "Just the three?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 629.0,
      "ContributionID": 666278,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but these are topical and important issues that the committee may want to consider, if the Parliament does not find time for them. All impact on the Scottish environment.The first is the possible extension of genetically modified crop trials. The second is the fluoridation of water in Scotland, which will be considered initially by the Health and Community Care Committee. We may want to discuss the environmental aspects of that. The third is the setting of organic targets, something which has already been discussed by the Westminster Parliament. The Rural Affairs Committee may want to consider that first, but in view of how such targets could impact positively on the water environment of Scotland, we may want to do so too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 631.0,
      "ContributionID": 666279,
      "EditedText": "As you point out, Robin, other committees may be planning to work in those areas. It would be worth discussing with the Health and Community Care Committee and the Rural Affairs Committee what they have already done. We will include all the issues that have been mentioned in the programme for our meeting in early January. It will be for committee members to decide which of them they want to pursue. We have time available, and it will be filled effectively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 639.0,
      "ContributionID": 666283,
      "EditedText": "We have decided what we will do at our next two meetings. Lynn Tullis will speak to all of you individually about areas of interest, as we could go round the table several times discussing those. At our January meeting, we will have a much more comprehensive overview of the way in which we want our areas of priority to develop. Was that what you wanted to talk about, Helen?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666286",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3968
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 645.0,
      "ContributionID": 666286,
      "EditedText": "Smashing. Are we agreed about what we are doing for the next two meetings?Members indicated agreement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665972",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 17 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the public meeting at 09:54"
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  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 17 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andy Kerr): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 665973,
      "EditedText": "I begin by welcoming everyone to this meeting of the Transport and the Environment Committee. My name is Andy Kerr, and I am the committee's convener. I welcome members of the press and public, visitors and those from whom we will be taking evidence. Sprinkled around the table are MSPs, members of the official report and officers of the Parliament. They all have their names in front of them, so I do not intend to introduce them individually.The Signet library is not normally the venue for our committee meetings. It is very prestigious but, I understand, fairly cold. That is a problem that we may have to try to solve during the meeting, but I hope that everyone here will manage to survive. We may break in the middle for some vigorous exercise to heat ourselves up."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665976",
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      "ID": 3968
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 665976,
      "EditedText": "Thanks very much, Dr Ramsay. That was most interesting."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 665977,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask a few questions to ensure that committee members are clear about the role and status of the Scottish Centre for Infection and Environmental Health. How does that relate to health boards, local authorities and planning authorities in Scotland? What is your relationship with those other public bodies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665983",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 665983,
      "EditedText": "What level of interest has been expressed by the people with whom you work? Are they coming to you for information, and is there a lot of interest and concern out there in the scientific community?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665984",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 665984,
      "EditedText": "We have had a lot of inquiries from a variety of health boards and local authorities, because questions have arisen as a result of planning applications, for example. They tend to refer to us for advice on the subject. That is why a piece was written in the SCIEH weekly report in an attempt to synthesise some of the evidence. It was a short piece and by no means comprehensive, but there is anxiety in health boards and local authorities about the whole question of how to apply the precautionary approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665989",
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      "ID": 3968
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 665989,
      "EditedText": "How are electromagnetic field strengths and exposure levels currently monitored and measured, what are the key issues in the current approach to monitoring and measurement and what are the availability and cost of equipment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665999",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 665999,
      "EditedText": "At what point do levels of oscillation become biologically dangerous? Are the human body's natural resonances known and mapped?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666001",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 666001,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that we can tailor matters so that they are not detrimental to health?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C666003",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 666003,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned that the difference between thermal and non-thermal effects of radiation is that there is no increase in temperature with non-thermal effects. Is there a level beneath which there is no thermal effect?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666004",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 666004,
      "EditedText": "The current guidelines set levels at which thermal effects should not occur. Using experimental techniques, it is possible to measure the temperature rise for a given amount of energy. People experience changes in temperature. For example, it is pretty cold outside this room, as those of us waiting outside discovered. When we exercise, we generate heat in the body and the brain temperature goes up. That is not harmful, because the body is designed to cope with a range of temperature variation. Damage starts to occur when the body gets beyond its compensating ability and the cooking phenomenon begins to happen at a very, very low level, although I do not want to overdramatise that. When the body can no longer regulate temperature, tissue damage occurs. The thermal guidelines mean that the body maintains any temperature rise within its ability to regulate its own temperature."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 666006,
      "EditedText": "That raises a difficult aspect. The energy levels from mobile phones are greater than the levels that we might receive from passing a mobile phone base station, because we hold handsets right next to our heads.Concerns about and guidelines on the appropriate levels for mobile phones are a slightly different issue. That debate is analogous to the debate about passive and active smoking. People who decide to use mobile phones need to be aware of the risks and to know how to minimise exposure by, for example, using remote handsets and earpieces and not keeping the aerial next to the brain. The industry is working on measures to minimise risks; the energy levels of phones are being reduced all the time.The question about mobile phone masts is slightly different, because we cannot limit our exposure to energy levels, apart from walking away from them. That is the point at which the issue becomes emotive for parents, who cannot influence where the station is being sited. They can decide whether to let their children use phones, but not whether their children can go to a school without a mast on the roof."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 666008,
      "EditedText": "The NRPB is a well-respected organisation that specifically provides scientific advice to the Government. The levels that the NRPB quotes are guidance levels and have no statutory authority; they are based on its assessment of the scientific evidence. It has stated quite clearly that the thermal aspect provides the basis of its scientific assessment. It also says explicitly that it does not take biological effects into account and that it does not see any necessity for doing so—it does not regard that as being the basis on which to make recommendations on health effects. Many other scientists in this field, particularly in other parts of the world, do not share that view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 666009,
      "EditedText": "You have answered the question on whether the NRPB's position fits in with current scientific advice—it does not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 666010,
      "EditedText": "As I said, the NRPB's attitude towards the required safety margin was the principal difference between the NRPB and the ICNIRP, in terms of the recommendations.However, Italy, for example, has accepted the basis of non-thermal biological effects. The Italian threshold level is leagues below anything that is regarded as normal in this country. There is an enormous divergence of opinion on where guidelines should be set. It boils down to the question of what criterion is being used—the NRPB is quite open about its criteria. Others would like the UK to move towards a more precautionary level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 666012,
      "EditedText": "That is a very difficult question. If one were to pitch the level at any point below what the NRPB currently suggests, one would be open to the argument that the system was arbitrary. It has been argued that we should use the level that has been cited for electronic equipment. It is something of an anomaly that we are prepared to protect sensitive electronic equipment by setting a guideline of about 0.027 W/sq m, whereas we are prepared to allow around 3,300 W/sq m for human exposure. There is an enormous difference between what we accept as being apparently damaging to electronic equipment and what we are prepared to accept as being damaging to human beings.It is interesting, technically, that people say, \"Oh well, the levels we set are actually way above what these base stations emit anyway, so you don't need to worry.\" However, if that is the situation, why are we setting such high guidelines? It is rather like having a speed limit of 500 mph on a motorway and saying, \"Well, nobody's going to reach it anyway, so nobody's going to come to any harm. Why worry?\" That is not the point of the guidelines. They should take into account the need to reassure people that their best interests and health—their well-being—have been considered, not just the fact that we are not going to cook them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 666014,
      "EditedText": "I have to be honest and say that we may never get conclusive evidence; that is a persistent problem with many environmental health matters. We are dealing with extremely complex and difficult situations and because of that complexity, even the best epidemiological studies will be flawed in their ability to show an effect. It is extremely difficult to differentiate the exposure from mobile phone base masts from all the other electromagnetic radiation to which people are exposed. One would have to tease out from the evidence that someone's leukaemia, or whatever, is definitely due to the fact that he or she has been exposed to the base station for the past five years. It would be incredibly difficult to do that, so we may never reach the holy grail of the answer to the question.We have to go back, therefore, to proxy measures and the other indicators of potential biological effects that could cause damage and that we must consider to be real. We must make a pragmatic judgment about the level of evidence that we are prepared to accept as being adequate. It would not be realistic for me to say that we will know the answer to that question in five years' time, as I do not necessarily think that we will."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 666016,
      "EditedText": "Again, that boils down to physiological mechanisms; that approach is contested by some people who ask, \"Well, where's your evidence that this is really true?\" It is based on an understanding of the physiology of children that their biological mechanisms for coping with heat and excessive cold are less well developed. For example, children are much more prone to getting very hot or cold—they do not have mature mechanisms to cope. The physiological ability to cope also decreases as people grow older, so there is reason to suspect that elderly people are more vulnerable, but it might be difficult to provide hard and fast evidence of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 666017,
      "EditedText": "Should schools and residential areas be treated differently? Some people say that masts should be kept away from schools. Should we be more cautious than that, as children are in residential areas, too?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 666018,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult not to adopt an arbitrary approach. I want the concept of minimising exposure to be accepted. Clearly, minimising the exposure of children is a reasonable way forward, as they will be exposed to radiation for a much longer time and it is the cumulative effect of radiation that is, perhaps, the cause for concern.There are two ways to go on this—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 666026,
      "EditedText": "The strictest criteria of which I am aware apply in Italy. In effect, Italy has gone for a level that is about equivalent to that applying to sensitive electronic equipment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 666028,
      "EditedText": "Often, it seems that the first that people learn about the siting of telephone base stations is when they pop up at the bottom of their gardens. I am not an expert on planning regulations, but I understand that, if the height of a mast is less than 15 m, companies do not need to seek planning permission and can plonk it more or less where they like.A situation that engenders such public anxiety has to be examined carefully. The public must be given an opportunity to find out about the situation. The companies should adopt a more open approach. They should demonstrate that they have a compelling reason to have a mast in a particular location and that it is not just for the sake of convenience. They have to reassure people that they are meeting whatever guidelines are set. At the moment, I do not think that that is being done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 666030,
      "EditedText": "That is a technical matter. I think that local authorities use hand-held meters to determine the energy levels, but there are doubts about the sensitivity of the meters. They are probably good enough to determine if the mast conforms to current National Radiological Protection Board guidelines, but more sophisticated equipment would be required to test for lower levels. The authorities would have to buy such equipment and people would have to be specially trained. If the environmental health department cannot do the work, another mechanism will be needed to reassure people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 666031,
      "EditedText": "It seems clear that your agency would like the matter to be brought under planning legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 666032,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I understand why things were set up as they were—to allow the industry to expand—but we have to question whether it is reasonable to continue in that way. I believe that the public needs to have a greater say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 666034,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I would like a much wider understanding of health impacts, not just of the thermal effects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 666035,
      "EditedText": "Is there a difference between the views that you have expressed and those of the Scottish health boards?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 666036,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish health boards have written to us for advice many times. It is up to them whether they accept our advice, which they might not agree with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 666040,
      "EditedText": "Clearly, I am biased, but I think that the planning system has not taken health into account as a valid reason for objections. Objections on the basis of health must be backed up by rigid scientific evidence. The onus is always on people to prove demonstrable damage, as opposed to psychological damage or damage because of persistent chronic stress—I acknowledge that those are softer areas of health, but they are still valid. The planning system should be more open-minded about taking health into account, even if we have a wide-ranging perception of health and consider it to be about well-being. The planning system should be willing to listen to people's legitimate and serious concerns, even if those concerns are not couched in the best scientific language."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 666044,
      "EditedText": "Sorry. I should have given you the opportunity to make a short statement. I apologise. I thought that you might work your statement into your answer to Nora Radcliffe's question, but you are very welcome to make an opening statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 666046,
      "EditedText": "Good morning committee members. My name is Helene Irvine. I am a consultant in public health medicine, responsible for communicable diseases and environmental health with the department of public health at Greater Glasgow Health Board. I am concerned about the potential for ill health caused by cellphones and transmitter masts. As members will know, in my written submission I argued in favour of adopting a precautionary approach enshrined in some form of enforceable legislation. In February this year, the head of environmental protection and public health at Glasgow City Council wrote to me. He asked me, as the designated medical officer for Greater Glasgow Health Board and a consultant in public health with responsibility for environmental health, for my views on the health implications of cellphone masts. Since February, I have reviewed existing scientific and circumstantial evidence. I have communicated with a number of scientists working in the field from around the world and have attended two key conferences. My work has led me to conclude that there is enough evidence to merit the adoption of a precautionary approach to the siting of masts. In early June, I advised senior officers from the six local councils covered by GGHB to that effect. That is not to say that I know that such masts are hazardous. It means simply that I concluded that there was a sufficient question mark over the long-term safety of masts to advise caution. Specifically, I advised that no more masts be erected in residential areas and schools, at least until the various expert groups reported. I advised that it was likely that that approach should continue, given that we would not know for many years the long-term effects of low intensities of radiation and on the ground that children would be more susceptible to the effects of such radiation. I suggested that, although we were not experts on the subject, it was reasonable to err on the side of caution, assume that such radiation could have an effect and introduce a band of safety around each mast. I suggested that, as an interim measure, it was reasonable unilaterally to introduce an arbitrary safety limit that took into account the possibility of non-thermal effects.I will summarise some of the key points that need to be considered. We do not know the daily tolerable exposure to microwave radiation. We do not know the long-term consequences of chronic low-level exposure or whether such effects might be cumulative. We know from watching television and from walking down the high street that cellphone technology is everywhere—even many children own cellphones. The technology has been released for use by the general population without the kind of experiments that would enable scientists to confirm that it is entirely safe in the long term. A substantial body of published, peer-reviewed evidence suggests that this form of radiation is not inert. It has been shown to have a range of biological effects in animal models and human cells in vitro at low intensities in the range that might conceivably be experienced around a transmitter mast. Those effects have included changes in the blood-brain barrier, reductions in fertility and size of offspring, DNA-strand breakages, changes in the behaviour of rats, reductions in eating and drinking in mammals, changes in calcium movement across cell boundaries and so on. All those results were published in peer-reviewed journals; they were all achieved at intensities that could be experienced around a mast.Many reputable scientists are concerned about the adequacy of the NRPB safety standards, which are many times less stringent than those adopted by most western countries and which do not take into account the possibility of non-thermal effects. Those standards do not ensure that masts are kept at a reasonable distance from individual homes and schools. There are examples in the UK of masts that are located just 5 m from a primary school. I know about those examples, as they have been reported to the health board.The volume of radio signals that is transmitted by masts is set to increase markedly over the next few years. Measurements that are taken from a limited sample of masts—by City of Edinburgh Council, City of Glasgow Council and Renfrewshire Council, for example—over limited periods and at specific points in time will not necessarily reflect the situation next spring or next year. We are trying to measure a moving target.Given the long latency period for most cancers, the lack of firm epidemiological evidence to link serious disease in humans with this form of radiation should not be used to dismiss the adoption of a more cautious approach. Even if small clusters of disease were to develop around transmitter masts, we, as public health doctors or consultant epidemiologists, would find it difficult or impossible conclusively to attribute those clusters to the masts. It is not good enough to rely on post-marketing surveillance. Wireless Technology Research—the research arm of the industry in America—has equated post-marketing surveillance of disease with protection of the public health. However, post-marketing research is not a reasonable substitute for public health protection, which involves ensuring that radiation levels are kept to an absolute minimum in sensitive areas and that, in using cellphones, people are advised to keep their calls short, to use hands-free sets, not to attach the phone to their waist and so on.As has been said, even if only a small percentage of the population were to be affected by the masts, the impact on the public health would be substantial because of the sheer number of people who are exposed to radiation.Local government commitments—in booklets such as Stirling Council's \"The Things Children Want\"—state that children should be safe from harm in their home, at school and at play, and that they should be listened to when they raise concerns. Those commitments to protect the health of children and to listen to parents should be honoured.A more precautionary approach should have been adopted during the uncontrolled promotion of tobacco after the war and in the careless use of asbestos in the shipbuilding industry and later by the construction trades. A precautionary approach should also have been adopted during the processing of feedstuffs to nourish beef herds during the recent BSE epidemic. Those three big examples teach us that we should be more careful in future.In conclusion, a debate is required on whether we, as a society, are prepared to take the risk that these masts may have effects on the health of some of us. That debate should include not only the expert scientists, but, crucially, the rest of society. Ultimately, the public must decide whether they are prepared to have the masts on their schools or near their homes, whether they are prepared to accept sub-optimal signal coverage, and whether they are prepared to pay more for their phones and calls to fund any adjustments that are necessary to reduce the electric field strengths that the masts emit. Many of the ways in which that can be done have not been sufficiently explored or may have cost implications that the industry has not welcomed. We must have a debate with the industry to determine whether it can afford to absorb the costs of any adjustments. Surely, with all the lessons that have been learned from the past, we are at a stage in our history when we can consciously decide to place a sufficiently high value on public health that we are prepared to debate these issues openly and consider collectively the imposition of restrictions on the placement and emission levels of these masts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 666050,
      "EditedText": "As I mentioned, I act as one of the two designated medical officers at GGHB for the six councils that we advise. That includes all Glasgow city and parts of five other councils. In that capacity, I am regularly called on to give advice on a range of communicable disease and environmental health issues. For instance, yesterday I was called about whether a child with salmonella should be excluded from a nursery. That is the sort of thing that I would be advised about, after which I can use the law to exclude that child if I think it appropriate. I could be asked about the hazardous effects of a rapeseed field, a chemical spill or an outbreak of E coli 0157, as happened in our area in Lanarkshire.Most of the time, my advice is, strictly speaking, advice only. People are not required to follow it. Apart from the rare opportunities in which I can use the law—for example, to take somebody under the National Assistance Act 1948 from their home against their will to a place of safety, or to require somebody under the law on tuberculosis to enter hospital for treatment—there are very few instances in which anything that I say must be adhered to. I work in an advisory capacity, and I rely on my knowledge and credibility for that advice to be followed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C666055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 666055,
      "EditedText": "How do pulsed signals differ from non-pulsed signals, and what are their effects on health?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 666062,
      "EditedText": "If the effects are marked, it will be easier and quicker to obtain such evidence. If the effects are subtle, it will be more difficult and it may never be possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 666064,
      "EditedText": "The masts are very directional, as has been said. They can be specifically targeted, but there is a risk that we use that feature to claim that masts can be safely located anywhere, and that we can target the beam to avoid residential areas. There may be some truth in that, but the point is that the structures on which the masts sit are not sited in isolation. One may be put on top of a primary school and the beam may be directed away from the children occupying the building underneath, but the chances are that that school will be in a residential area—most schools are situated where people live. We would have to ensure that the beam was not directed at any residential area and that there was no chance that parents dropping their children off at school in the morning and who looked at the mast were affected.My worry is about the number of masts. I am told that there are 75 of them in Glasgow—they were erected before I was asked my view on the health implications. I am told that that number will at least double in the next five years. That means that we have to ensure that each mast is emitting the same low level as it was last year; that the direction of the beam is exactly what it was when it was measured; and that, since then, no new buildings have been erected in the path of the beam. Members can understand the complexity of the situation. Each mast has to be considered individually in terms of the intensity of the power coming from it, the linear gain of the beam, where the beam is headed and its fall-off over distance. Hundreds of masts may have to be monitored in a densely populated area. The manpower implications are obvious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 666066,
      "EditedText": "I am puzzled by the NRPB's stance and concerned by discrepancies between the advice that it is giving and some of its reports. I understand, for instance, that in one report—of which I have a copy—it recommended a more stringent limit for pregnant women and children. However, in its final advice, it abandoned that. I understand that NRPB scientists have requested funding for more research and have investigated the biological effects of radiation in rats and so on. That research has not been reassuring. Dr Zenon Sienkiewicz presented work at the Gothenburg conference showing that the rats that he studied were physiologically stressed at levels of radiation that might be present around a transmitter mast—0.05 W/kg. When the NRPB reveals such results at an international conference but sets a limit that is many times less stringent, that concerns me.We were invited to a conference organised by the NRPB in Scotland, at which the emphasis was on other issues, such as the risk of lung cancer from radon and the risk of melanoma from being out in the sun and the consequent need to stay indoors for most of the day from March to November. The subject of radiation from cellphones, however, was dealt with glibly in a matter of minutes. We were told that the only effect might be a tiny amount of heating around the temple—that was the sum total of the discussion. Having unearthed the enormous amount of complex literature that underpins this subject, I was surprised that it was dealt with in such a cursory manner at an educational seminar aimed at consultants in public health. People such as I were told that there was nothing to this—we should pass on that message, if anyone asked us. The subject needs more attention than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 666067,
      "EditedText": "What is your view on the overall expertise of the NRPB in biological and epidemiological matters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 666073,
      "EditedText": "Given what you have said so far, do you have a view on what interim advice the NRPB should be issuing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 666077,
      "EditedText": "You have answered my next question, so I will move on to my last question.In your submission, you refer to the evidence given by the British Medical Association to a House of Commons select committee. Will you elaborate on that, especially with regard to the position of the BMA on the possible effects below the thermal threshold and the need for a precautionary approach?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 666078,
      "EditedText": "I do not have much to elaborate on. I have a photocopy of the letter that was sent by the BMA to that committee. The letter said that we should consider the possibility of non-thermal effects and that we should take a more precautionary approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666079",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 666079,
      "EditedText": "You are advocating a precautionary approach and, in your submission, you refer to sensitive areas. How would you define sensitive areas and groups and what criteria would you apply?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666081",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 666081,
      "EditedText": "When you suggest minimum distances from sensitive areas, for example, as an arbitrary safety standard, what formula could be used?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666088",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 666088,
      "EditedText": "That is a technical issue, but I have been advised that there is a huge potential to introduce many microcells at ground level, although there would be a cost involved in that. Microcells emit much lower-intensity radiation, but more cells can be set up so that there are better-quality radio signals. That way, more powerful masts that give out much more energy could be avoided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666089",
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      "ID": 3968
    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 666089,
      "EditedText": "Would you like us to examine that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 666093,
      "EditedText": "We have had a flavour of how you feel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C666094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 666094,
      "EditedText": "What information should be made available to the public on telecommunications developments? From whom, and in what form, should that information come?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C666095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 666095,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean only masts, or do you include cellphones in telecommunications developments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 666097,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that you said that, as it is much easier to answer about cellphones. In my view, there is enough evidence to suggest that we should advise caution. Who am I to say that? I am a bit concerned about cellphones, given that the gentleman who headed Wireless Technology Research for six years advises caution. He says that we should suggest to people that they keep their calls short, that they use their cellphones only when they need to make calls, that they use hands-free sets and so on. That kind of advice—which has leaked out from that gentleman at WTR—is fair enough and should be issued in this country as well. Whether that advice should come from the industry, the NRPB or some other body such as the Department of Health, is open to debate, but it is important that the information is evidence based and helpful. It is reasonable to include such information in the packaging of new cellphones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 666101,
      "EditedText": "Both. I understand that there is a huge variation in the levels of radiation that phones emit, and that it is not required that we be told what the levels are. It is wrong that such information, which seems to me to be critical, is not communicated to the purchaser of a mobile phone. The packaging that comes with a new cellphone says only that the level of radiation is within the NRPB standards. It should be a requirement that we are told the specific absorption rate of cellphones when we buy them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 666104,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 666105,
      "EditedText": "I welcome John Stather and Dr Alastair McKinlay from the NRPB. As you will be aware, the committee has been conducting this investigation over several weeks. We appreciate the written evidence that you have passed to us and the statements that you have made, which are contained in the appendices. You have the opportunity to make some opening remarks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 666107,
      "EditedText": "You have given us a general introduction to the role of the NRPB, which has been helpful. I would like you now to give a clear indication of the NRPB's specific role in relation to the thermal and non-thermal health effects of electromagnetic fields related to telecoms equipment regulated by planning authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 666108,
      "EditedText": "We have a responsibility to give advice and guidelines on exposure. We do not set limits as such, as there are none. We have given such advice for almost 20 years and it has been updated as more information has become available. The most recent advice was issued in 1993. In the run-up to issuing that, we were anxious to ensure that our advice was underpinned by the range of scientific evidence that was available, including experimental work on animals, cells in culture and epidemiological studies.The view that we reached in 1993, which really is no different from our view today, was that the only established health effects that could be used as a basis for setting guidelines were the thermal effects due to heating for high-frequency radiation. Concerns have been voiced about other effects that may not be caused by heating, so-called athermal effects, such as the possibility of radio frequencies being involved in the development of cancer in individuals or affecting brain function. However, while I appreciate that some studies suggest those possibilities, others do not. When we set guidelines, we must consider the totality of the evidence.In 1993, therefore, the view that we took, which was confirmed by our board this year, was that our approach to setting guidelines, which was based on preventing thermal effects, was the right one for the United Kingdom. Other national and international organisations have taken the same view. Alastair McKinlay is the vice-chairman of ICNIRP, which uses the same basis for its advice. There are differences between the ways in which NRPB and ICNIRP give advice, but the basis of the advice is the same for both organisations and for many others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Alastair McKinlay (National Radiological Protection Board): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 666109,
      "EditedText": "I must add that the NRPB is not working in isolation on this issue, in case there is an impression that it is. At the scientific level, we are very well tied in with ICNIRP. We are a collaborative centre for the World Health Organisation on non-ionising radiation. We work very closely with others on the international electromagnetic field project. We also work closely with the European Commission on research and developing standards for non-ionising radiation.We take a broad view of electromagnetic fields, as we do of the whole radiation spectrum. We do not isolate particular frequencies or devices in our advice. Across the spectrum, our advice is consistently based on the biological and epidemiological evidence that is available. We do not deal with mobile phones any differently. They are dealt with properly, taking into account all the scientific evidence. We are also very involved in international research efforts. That is not an admission that there is a big problem; rather, as others have said, studies have been published that merit replication. There is a clear need for research in this area. The NRPB has consistently called for research, when we have identified areas that require further investigation. As John Stather said, our advice can only be on the basis of what we regard as the established science, taking that science as a whole, and we will continue with that approach. That is not to say that our advice is set in stone; clearly, it is not. We are responsive to scientific literature and to what is published. We are tied into the international research effort and we are aware of what is going on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 666111,
      "EditedText": "The Government adopted our advice for application throughout the UK. All Government departments that we are aware of look to the advice that we published in 1993 and that we reinforced this year as advice that industry and other organisations should work to in setting standards of exposure that relate to equipment. It is UK advice that has been adopted by Government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 666115,
      "EditedText": "Our advice underpins the Government's response to exposure limits in a range of different situations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 666128,
      "EditedText": "We have a range of expertise in physics, mathematics—because a lot of computation modelling was involved—biology and all the sciences that are needed to tackle the issue. A number of people have taken a specialist interest in the matter during the past 20 years. We also have an independent advisory group, chaired by Sir Richard Doll, on non-ionising radiation that the director set up in 1990. It is made up of influential academics, including experimental biologists and epidemiologists, from around the country who bring outside expertise to the NRPB. The group has considered a range of issues relating to non-ionising radiation—not just electromagnetic fields, but also ultraviolet radiation.Until recently, the main concern was power lines. The rapid developments in technology have caused the concern to switch to radio frequencies. About nine months ago, we set up a sub-group to examine radio-frequency radiation. There is also the independent expert group on mobile phones that is chaired by Sir William Stewart, which had its first public meeting in Edinburgh last week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 666132,
      "EditedText": "The EU has adopted the ICNIRP guidelines, which are a two-tier standard. There is one level of guidelines for occupational exposure, and a reduction factor of five for public exposure. When we set our guidelines in 1993, we felt that we already had an adequate margin of safety for both occupational and public exposure, so we had a single-tier standard. We examined closely what ICNIRP and the EU said, and we see no scientific justification for the factor of five in terms of further reduction in the limit compared with occupational exposure. We think that that could cause practical difficulties for mobile phone use. For example, if one were to use a mobile phone for work, one standard would apply; if one used the same phone to communicate with home, that would be domestic use and a different standard would apply. It is important to ensure that any exposure is governed by a standard that guarantees a sufficient safety margin, and we believe that that is what our guidelines provide. If the Government chooses to endorse the EU recommendation for other reasons, we have no problem with that, but that endorsement would not be for scientific reasons; it would be because Government felt that it should take on board other issues. That was the view of our board when it produced a report earlier this year on our response to ICNIRP guidelines, both from a scientific point of view and considering other issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 666134,
      "EditedText": "We acknowledge the fact that there are differences between our guidelines and the ICNIRP guidelines because of the factor of five reduction for members of the public. However, we believe that the guidelines that we give for all groups in the population—workers or public—already include a sufficient margin of safety. Dr Alastair McKinlay has been involved in developing the guidelines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 666136,
      "EditedText": "That is a good question. I do not know how Italy arrived at its guidelines. When we carry out a survey, whether on occupational or public use, we can easily compare the measurements with any set of guidelines; not just the European Commission, but ICNIRP and the CENELEC—European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardisation—guidelines. We are part of Europe and there are international guidelines. The telecommunications industry is global, so the problem of harmonisation of standards is also global. The World Health Organisation is focusing on the globalisation of standards at the moment, and we are part of that discussion. It would be good to have a global harmonisation of standards. Great emphasis is sometimes put on the difference between a factor of five and a factor of three. In fact, with respect to base stations, that is insignificant in terms of public exposure. That difference would not be relevant to the issues that we would have to address if the guidelines were to be lowered further. It is encouraging that all the standard-setting bodies have developed their guidelines in exactly the same way—by relying on comprehensive reviews of the science and on established biological effects. The guidelines relate to the exposure of people and not to particular devices. I find it comforting that that is the scientific approach to the problem throughout the world. The numbers issue is not particularly important in terms of the practical implementation with respect either to occupational or to public exposure. There are some minor difficulties for some industries in certain areas, but it is not generally a big issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 666138,
      "EditedText": "When I spoke about relevance, I meant in respect of the actual emission levels in places where members of the public might normally be expected to be. The levels are so far below either the NRPB's UK guidelines or the ICNIRP guidelines—the European Commission's recommendation—that the factor of five is insignificant when compared with the large gap between either of those sets of guidelines and the very low levels that we measure and can predict computationally. Non-thermal effects are a separate issue—the effects other than those on which the guidelines are based.I am not dismissing the difference between the sets of guidelines; I am just pointing out that, especially for base stations, it is not a major issue. It is a minor problem for occupational exposure, where you are marking out exclusion zones that are very close to masts to give engineers access for maintenance and suchlike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 666141,
      "EditedText": "Why would that be the case? Why would someone want to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 666148,
      "EditedText": "It is not an argument to say that although the guidelines are set at one level, while in practice the levels of radiation are away down below, everything is okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 666152,
      "EditedText": "I would like to reinforce the point that Alastair McKinlay made. If evidence became available that suggested that we should change our guidelines, we would change our guidelines. In the case of ionising radiation, at the end of the 1980s, more evidence came to light on the effects of X-rays and gamma rays in terms of how many cancers might be caused by a given radiation dose. We changed our advice as a result of that better scientific information."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 666155,
      "EditedText": "You say that your guidelines and limits are based on your scientific evidence. Why does Europe set different limits? Is it getting different advice? We have acknowledged that different levels have been set throughout Europe and the world. Why is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 666156,
      "EditedText": "The United Kingdom is one of the few countries that had the expertise to develop its own guidelines. Many other countries just followed the ICNIRP guidelines when they were published."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 666157,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to establish what those guidelines are based on."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C666158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 666158,
      "EditedText": "The ICNIRP guidelines are derived from the same database as the NRPB guidelines. Again, I would emphasise the common approach to this issue. The decision about whether to incorporate an additional safety factor of two, five or whatever is essentially a value judgment. That judgment is taken by a committee or a group of individuals and may not be unanimous. Recently, we published a document that subjected the ICNIRP guidelines to detailed scientific analysis and sought to identify the added health benefit of a reduction by a factor of five. Our answer is clear in that document."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666162",
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 666162,
      "EditedText": "People talk about the directional effect of masts and so on. With my unscientific mind, I tend to think of the mast standing there and emitting radiation all around it. What is meant by the directional effect of masts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 666163,
      "EditedText": "The masts radiate into sectors. They cover the whole horizon, but they are divided into three sectors, forming a triangle. Radiation is emitted over 120 degrees—imagine a fan-shaped beam, which is normally at a 6-degree angle. The beam will intersect with the ground at 100, 150 or 200 m, depending on the elevation of the mast. That is what is meant by the directional effect. The beam is being directed towards the horizon. If someone is very close to the mast, they may not be in the beam, because there are always small side lobes attendant on the antenna. The main beam is focused outwards to get the maximum coverage for people using mobile phones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 666165,
      "EditedText": "The network is set up in a cellular structure. As people pass from one cell to another, they switch to a different transmitter to retain the optimum signal. I understand from the industry that the power should be minimised to prevent interference with other channels as much as possible. The transmitters are located at the centres of the cellular network so that coverage is as even as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 666168,
      "EditedText": "We can perhaps revisit that. I would like to make some progress and let Tavish in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 666169,
      "EditedText": "Could I mention something related to what I was asking about? We are saying that the beams we get from masts are not dangerous and that mobile phone handsets are of more concern to health. As far as I can gather, the idea is that we make the emission from the handset less powerful. Does that mean that we make the mast more powerful? Where does the balance of potential harm shift?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 666170,
      "EditedText": "You used the right word: balance. The relationship between the handset and the base station depends on balancing the system so that the minimum amount of power is being used. As members probably know, the handsets respond to signals from the masts to reduce power or down-power when less is required, and to increase power when more is required. That utilises the handset efficiently and the whole system efficiently. It also minimises battery usage, which is important for the viability of the handset.If someone goes into a building, where there is more shielding, the handset might have a problem communicating with the base station, and the base station will up the power to the handset, using the adaptive power control facility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 666173,
      "EditedText": "It is important that the NRPB keeps in touch with developments in telecommunications. We try to do that when considering the new generation of technology."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 666175,
      "EditedText": "Of course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 666180,
      "EditedText": "But, by definition, you do regular work for telecommunications companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 666183,
      "EditedText": "The work is not regular; it addresses technical issues of design criteria."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 666185,
      "EditedText": "Some less charitable members—not us—will point out that you are taking money from telecommunications companies. Perhaps that is not the best way to keep up with technical developments in the industry and still be seen as impartial.I want to ask two daft-laddie questions about definitions. First, what is the difference between head heating and whole-body heating?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 666191,
      "EditedText": "What can science do if we cannot examine athermal effects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 666193,
      "EditedText": "When is the scientific fraternity going to reach that critical mass of athermal evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 666196,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We are one of many organisations that are carrying out such research. The behavioural studies that Z J Sienkiewicz has been involved in are examining athermal effects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 666198,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 666199,
      "EditedText": "When were the European guidelines introduced and when did you start your research into these athermal concerns that are being expressed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 666200,
      "EditedText": "We have carried out research into the effects of non-ionising radiation, in terms of heating effects, since 1975. In the early 1990s we were more concerned about power frequencies. We became involved in epidemiological studies that were being conducted throughout the country. I suspect that most of the biological research on radio-frequency radiation has been going on for three to four years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 666201,
      "EditedText": "When did the European element of that come in? Linda Fabiani made a point about the European regulations, and you used a phrase that I missed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 666204,
      "EditedText": "We were aware of what ICNIRP was doing. We put in place a review of the ICNIRP guidelines and we published our response to them. I can leave a copy of the document with you. Our board took a view on the science. It may be worth reading the final two sentences of the board's statement, in which the two-tier standard, which we talked about, was compared with the single-tier standard that was advised by the NRPB. The board said:\"It sees no scientific justification, therefore, for altering the advice previously given by NRPB on exposure guidelines for members of the public. It does, however, accept that other factors may need to be taken into account by government in establishing generally accepted exposure guidelines for the public.\"The science to support a two-tier standard did not exist. On the other hand, that is in the EU recommendation. The Government needs to address that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 666207,
      "EditedText": "Our biologists are very much a part of the international scientific groups addressing those issues, through the WHO working groups and the ICNIRP standing committee on biology. That is very important.We facilitate and encourage research, much of which—in particular, animal studies—requires specialist expertise and large laboratories. Much research is stimulated in academic institutions, as it rightly should be. We should not expect one institute or organisation to provide the answer. This is a global research effort, which has to be co-ordinated. Rightly, the WHO is co-ordinating that effort through its EMF programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 666208,
      "EditedText": "We have been given examples today of two or three international research projects. Have other research projects been undertaken? It was suggested that the NRPB had, in effect, ignored that evidence. How much work has been done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 666209,
      "EditedText": "There are two major international programmes. In the United States, the Wireless Technology Research programme, which was headed by George Carlo, closed this year. Not much has been published from that programme; we have heard a lot of anecdotal information but seen very few published papers to justify what George Carlo has said in the media in the past few months. We are in contact with him to find out to which papers he is referring and what is in the press.There is also the European Union work, which is bringing together a research platform. Many countries have their own research programmes. We are in contact with most current programmes, and know pretty well the totality of the research. There will always be some work going on in some university somewhere of which we are not aware, but we attend the conferences where such work is presented, so we should be familiar with it.It is important to note that we are involved in research. We cannot be involved in everything, but if we are to understand other people's work and comment on it sensibly, we need to be involved in some research."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 666213,
      "EditedText": "No. It is the view of most scientists who have considered the matter that there is not enough energy to damage DNA directly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 666214,
      "EditedText": "But you concede that there is a possibility that the progression of a cancer will be influenced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 666219,
      "EditedText": "The lymphoma study to which you refer is probably the Repacholi study, which is being replicated in two other laboratories, one in Australia and one in Europe. The study used a unique strain of mouse, which had been genetically manipulated to make it particularly sensitive to the development of lymphoma. Even Mike Repacholi would say that the implications for humans are not understood. On the other hand, there is something there that needs to be examined to discover, in the first instance, whether the study can be replicated and then to understand the mechanism involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 666222,
      "EditedText": "You have said that the lack of evidence does not prove the absence of a risk and that more specific research is warranted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 666230,
      "EditedText": "Should not you advise the Government to take those other factors into account?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 666232,
      "EditedText": "If we do not base our guidelines on the scientific data on the established health effects, as all other international organisations do, what level do we set? On which data would we base such a level? That is an open question. Data for study A, study B and study C, which examine different biological end points, might produce a plethora of results for each study. A scientist would then have to ask how one made scientific sense out of those results. The issue is purely scientific; it is not related to the socio-economic and political factors of which we are well aware, as they are a matter for the Government. We would be left with the difficulty of choosing a number."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 550.0,
      "ContributionID": 666240,
      "EditedText": "There is an American standard—the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers standard. The Americans have only a radio frequency standard, which extends from 3 kHz up to 300 GHz and therefore the frequency range is the same. Their standard for mobile phone frequencies is similar to, but not exactly the same as, the European, ICNIRP standard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 556.0,
      "ContributionID": 666243,
      "EditedText": "So our standard fits in the middle of the American standard?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 566.0,
      "ContributionID": 666248,
      "EditedText": "I will do that. The board comprises a mixture of medical people, experimental biologists, scientists—the chairman is Sir Walter Bodmer, Principal of Hertford College, Oxford."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 570.0,
      "ContributionID": 666250,
      "EditedText": "I will supply a list of board members. I will also supply a list of the members of our advisory group on non-ionising radiation, which makes an important input to our advice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 666257,
      "EditedText": "It would be going out the way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25740,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 595.0,
      "ContributionID": 666262,
      "EditedText": "We are considering petition PE17, on Skye Bridge tolls discounting options for Western Isles residents, and petition PE27, on toll concessions for the transport of livestock, feedstuffs and other haulage across the Skye bridge, together because they deal with similar issues. I suggest that we note the concerns of the petitioners and refer the petitions to the Scottish Executive for further consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 597.0,
      "ContributionID": 666263,
      "EditedText": "We are asked to support specific concessions, and I think that the approach that we took to the capercaillie petition would be more appropriate. We should investigate further. I am sure that we would get information from the Executive, but I do not want simply to refer the petitions to the Executive.It would be appropriate to ask for the basis on which the discounts were granted to normal users from Skye, and to probe the reasons why those discounts were not granted to people from the Western Isles. We should ask what the implications would be for the agreement with the bridge operating company and repayments if the concession were granted.On the livestock issue, the comparator is the ferry service. It would be appropriate to ask for the reasons why those concessions were granted and what would be the implications of agreeing such a concession on the bridge. If we have that information, we will be in a position to pass a judgment on the petition and to say whether we think that it is reasonable for the Executive to give it favourable consideration. It is a slightly more convoluted approach, but, in this case, it is not just a matter for the Executive. We should give an opinion on the petition. I can imagine that I might agree with some or all of the petition if I had the whole picture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 600.0,
      "ContributionID": 666264,
      "EditedText": "That is very useful, Murray. Thank you. Are there any other comments? We can add in those made by Murray.Petition PE21 is from Penicuik and District Community Council on the need for a concessionary bus fare scheme to be operated nationally by the Scottish Executive. We wish to note the concerns of the petitioner. It is one of the areas of early action that we agreed to at our meeting during the recess—it seems a long time ago. We will advise the petitioner of the interest in concessionary fares expressed by the committee and our intention to consider further action on the matter. It would be useful if we passed the petition on to the Executive, so that it knows that there is a concern out there. Is that agreed to by the committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 602.0,
      "ContributionID": 666265,
      "EditedText": "Petition PE22 from the Island of Cumbrae Tourist Association concerns the fare structure of Caledonian MacBrayne for the ferry to Cumbrae island and calls for more detailed financial information to be made available. We wish to note the concerns of the petitioner, refer the matter to the Scottish Executive for further consideration and request the information and the details of Caledonian MacBrayne's revenue receipts from the Largs to Cumbrae ferry service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 608.0,
      "ContributionID": 666268,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to accept those additions to the remit. With those additions added in, are we agreed? We are.We will follow up each petition with a letter from the clerk advising the petitioners of our actions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 617.0,
      "ContributionID": 666272,
      "EditedText": "That would be good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 619.0,
      "ContributionID": 666273,
      "EditedText": "There is also the issue of our work load. If we need to schedule further meetings, I will discuss that with the committee before proceeding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 623.0,
      "ContributionID": 666275,
      "EditedText": "That would be another useful way of keeping our business topical. We will try to schedule it in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 633.0,
      "ContributionID": 666280,
      "EditedText": "If we are bidding for things that we want to be included in our programme—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C666284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 641.0,
      "ContributionID": 666284,
      "EditedText": "The railways are a big priority for me and the part of the country that I represent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 643.0,
      "ContributionID": 666285,
      "EditedText": "I know that other committees have split into sub-groups or have used a rapporteur system. Perhaps the clerk could think about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 647.0,
      "ContributionID": 666287,
      "EditedText": "I want to notify the committee that the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities conference on 24 November is on the issue of telecommunications.Our next meeting is on 1 December. I thank members of the public for their attendance and apologise for the fact that it is very cold in this room. I hope that the heating is fixed for the next time there is a meeting here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 649.0,
      "ContributionID": 666288,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:40."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 665974,
      "EditedText": "This meeting forms part of our investigation into planning in the telecommunications industry. It is our most crucial meeting, because it involves those organisations and bodies that have views on the health aspects of this issue. Before we proceed to questioning, I should say that I have received apologies from Kenny MacAskill MSP and Des McNulty MSP, who are unable to attend today's meeting.We will take evidence this morning from the Scottish Centre for Infection and Environmental Health, from Greater Glasgow Health Board and from the National Radiological Protection Board. I invite Dr Colin Ramsay to come before the committee. I appreciate that this looks like a fairly formal arrangement, but we will try to keep things as informal as possible. Thank you, Dr Ramsay, for taking the time to come to speak to the committee. We are interested in your submission and in what you have to say to us this morning. After you have taken a couple of minutes to make some introductory remarks, I will invite members of the committee to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Colin Ramsay (Scottish Centre for Infection and Environmental Health): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 665975,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for this invitation to speak to the committee. I thought that it might be helpful to give a brief introduction to my perspective on the subject. I am a consultant epidemiologist at the Scottish Centre for Infection and Environmental Health. I trained in medicine and qualified in 1980. I then trained in public health and epidemiology. I worked as a consultant in public health for communicable diseases and environmental health with Lothian Health for nine years before moving to SCIEH.SCIEH is part of the health service in Scotland. It is a division of the common services agency. The organisation was set up to provide advice and support to health boards, local authorities and the Scottish Executive health department. I became involved in the mobile phone masts issue when I was asked for advice by health board public health consultants. I therefore had to research the issue and come to some conclusion about the health aspects of the problem.I know that a lot of evidence, both oral and written, has been submitted to the committee. Committee members will already have heard about what are known as the thermal effects of electromagnetic radiation. It will have been explained to members that those are effects induced by the absorption of energy, resulting in an increase in temperature in tissues. The health consequences can be extreme; for example, development of cataracts. One would not expect such effects to be associated with mobile phone base stations.The other effects, which are somewhat more contentious, are what are known as non-thermal effects, because no increase in temperature is detected. Some people say that such effects are inexplicable and therefore do not count. The NRPB tends to take that view. However, many other scientific authorities say that the effects are real and should be considered.Experimental evidence shows non-thermal effects to be wide-ranging, from effects on calcium-ion transport in tissues and cells to effects on enzymes and the production of hormones such as melatonin. Some studies have also shown effects on laboratory animals, such as changes in behaviour, which could be interpreted as a stress reaction, and there is evidence that suggests that memory deficit could be a consequence of exposure.The significance of those findings, if correct, is that, although they may be small and occur at low energy levels, a large number of people are being exposed over a long period of time. From that point of view, it is a public health concern.I want to consider also the health impact assessment aspect. People have focused too much on trying to assess damage to tissues and to people. My concept of health—the public health view—is that health is about more than the absence of disease; it is all about well-being. We must acknowledge the fact that this debate induces anxiety and stress. It causes an enormous amount of concern among parents if base stations are sited in schools or close to their back gardens. In the widest sense, we must consider that a health impact, which must be taken into account.I move on to consider the matter from an environmental health perspective, taking into account other environmental aspects. We are trying to minimise exposure to air pollution, we have set about having lead-free petrol and we are about to introduce a new set of water quality guidelines that reduce the exposure to lead. The only area in which we seem to be quite happy to allow an increase in pollution is in electromagnetic radiation.Studies in the United States have shown that, over the past decades, there has been a progressive increase in the levels of background electromagnetic radiation. That must be a concern in itself, and another reason why we must adopt a rather more precautionary approach to this whole question. What is being conducted, in effect, is an enormous natural experiment. We will not know the answer to whether there are really health effects for many years, even decades. By then, it may be too late.Finally, I want to touch on the current guidelines that are in operation in the United Kingdom. You may have heard already that the NRPB guidelines are based on the accepted thermal effects and do not take into account the possible biological or non-thermal effects, because the NRPB does not view them as legitimate in the setting of guidelines. It must be acknowledged that the NRPB guidelines are the least strict guidelines in the whole of Europe and most of the developed world. They do not match the guidelines that are advocated by the International Committee on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection, or ICNIRP.You might also be interested to know that a microchip embedded in a piece of sensitive electronic equipment would be expected to sustain only about a fortieth of the energy levels that a human is supposed to be able to sustain without apparent damage. To me, that is an interesting anomaly. There is a whole host of reasons why this topic is a legitimate one for public health concern, and one in relation to which I would like the planning process to be used to good effect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 665979,
      "EditedText": "How do you come to conclusions about issues such as this? Does one person research them, or do you have a board that examines evidence? How do you arrive at your conclusions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 665985,
      "EditedText": "Could you explain how emissions are transmitted—for example, the directional effect of masts and the combined effect of a number of masts and transmitters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 665986,
      "EditedText": "I am not a technical expert on transmission, and that question would be better directed at a technical expert. However, my lay understanding is that the outputs that are emitted by mobile phone masts are directional. That is another reason that is cited for their relative safety. The question about cumulative emissions is, again, rather technical, and I do not feel that I am able to answer it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 665987,
      "EditedText": "What would be the geographic effect of change in recommended emission levels as recommended by the House of Commons Science and Technology Select Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 665988,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the House of Commons select committee advocated the adoption of ICNIRP levels. The difference between the ICNIRP level and the NRPB level is that the NRPB level applies to both occupational exposure and the general public. The NRPB did not accept the idea that there should be a further safety factor reduction for the general public, because it did not accept the fact that there were vulnerable groups in the community such as children.There is scientific debate as to whether certain groups in the population are more vulnerable. The thermoregulatory mechanisms of children and the elderly are less effective than those of the average fit and healthy adult. If there were to be a thermal effect, those groups may have less ability to cope with that than an adult would. That is one reason why the House of Commons committee favoured the ICNIRP guidelines. They introduce another safety factor of about five in terms of reducing the level below what the NRPB advocates. That introduces a further safety margin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 665991,
      "EditedText": "Are you concerned about the expertise of those who are using the monitoring equipment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 665992,
      "EditedText": "It is a very technical field. Measuring very low-level emissions from telephone masts may be beyond the normal means of the average local authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 665993,
      "EditedText": "Will you explain the biological effects of emissions from land-based telecommunications equipment? What does \"chronic\" mean in relation to exposure to electromagnetic fields?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 665994,
      "EditedText": "Chronic exposure simply means that it is long-term. On the whole question of mobile phones and telecommunications, we are in a new era. The population has been exposed to these emissions for only a few years so far, but will obviously be exposed for decades, given current trends. That is when it will become chronic. It is rather like the exposure to lead in water; that is chronic exposure because it happens every day of the week.Some people regard the biological effects as contentious because no one has been able to explain how they occur. A wide range of effects has been cited in a variety of scientific studies. Those effects are difficult to explain, but reviewers have concluded that there is sufficient evidence—albeit very diverse—to suggest that they should be considered.There are effects on the transport of calcium ions across cell membranes and on the production of enzymes, which are necessary for energy production. There are examples of effects on the output of melatonin, which is a brain hormone. Studies on laboratory animals exposed to very low levels of radiation found that the animals reacted in ways that suggested that they were suffering stress. Other experiments appeared to show that memory deficit resulted from exposure to low-level radiation.Those are termed biological effects. They are apparently not induced by increases in temperature; nobody has been able to detect a temperature rise, although some people think that not being able to detect very small temperature rises may be a problem. However, in the main, those biological effects are characterised by unexplained mechanisms. There is a whole question about uncertainty. Because the effects are biological, one has to question at what point they could become health effects, and finding that boundary is very difficult. Traditionally, people have stuck to saying that thermal effects are defined, can be seen and demonstrated, and that they are therefore the cut-off point as far as health is concerned. My view is that the consideration of health effects should be much wider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 665995,
      "EditedText": "What health effects could be the consequence of long-term exposure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 665997,
      "EditedText": "How do pulsed signals differ from non-pulsed signals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 665998,
      "EditedText": "That is a very technical question and I may not be the best person to answer it. However, many scientific workers have pointed out that a lot of the studies that attempt to reassure people have been based on non-pulsed radiation. Pulsed radiation has a different physiological impact. Consideration of the frequency at which the pulses reverberate and oscillate must be added to consideration of the frequency of the radio waves. There is a term known as resonance, whereby the body resonates at certain natural frequencies. If the frequency of pulsing were to match the frequency of natural resonance, there would be an additive effect. That could potentiate any existing biological effect. The mere fact that the radiation is pulsing is another new phenomenon in human exposure, and therefore another potential cause of concern that we have to take into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 666007,
      "EditedText": "What status do you attach to the NRPB's guidance on emissions and their impact on biological and epidemiological matters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 666011,
      "EditedText": "What specific guidance do you think the NRPB should issue in order to take a sufficiently precautionary approach?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 666013,
      "EditedText": "Dr Ramsay, you mentioned the precautionary approach, which I am particularly interested in. One of the problems is the conflict between the NRPB's medical evidence and your evidence. Can you estimate the likely time scale for achieving conclusive evidence on the health implications?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 666015,
      "EditedText": "You explained earlier why elderly people and children were likely to be most at risk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 666019,
      "EditedText": "You are answering my next question, but carry on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 666022,
      "EditedText": "We talked about the directional effects of antennae and masts. I asked a previous witness about that. There is an argument that, because the signal from an antenna that is on top of a high-rise block of flats goes out the way, people living in the flats below are relatively unaffected. How does that view of directional effects influence what we are saying about playgrounds and other sensitive areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 666023,
      "EditedText": "Technical people will tell you that if measurements are taken several floors below where a mast is sited, extremely low levels will be detected. That may be technically correct, but one has to balance the reassurance aspects of a health impact assessment with those physical measurements. One might agree that, strictly, a mast meets the technical requirements, but its physical presence still results in anxiety and stress. That has to be considered in determining the impact on health, as there is more to this than technical factors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C666027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 666027,
      "EditedText": "What information on telecommunications developments should be given to the public? From whom should that information come?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 666038,
      "EditedText": "I do not know. I hear that many Italians walk around with mobile phones so I assume that they can use them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 666045,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. Your statement will no doubt answer my question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 666047,
      "EditedText": "Will you expand a little on why we should listen to your advice? What is your expertise in this field and what are your professional qualifications?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 666051,
      "EditedText": "I gather that you have had a volume of inquiries on telecommunications masts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C666053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 666053,
      "EditedText": "What is your understanding of the biological effects of emissions from land-based telecommunications equipment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 666056,
      "EditedText": "I do not know an awful lot about that. However, from looking at the biological evidence from studies on both continuous and pulsed cellphone radiation, I know that they have different thresholds for inducing effects. The pulsed nature apparently causes a more potent effect, but that is about as much as I know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 666058,
      "EditedText": "On an epidemiological basis, there is very little evidence linking ill health in humans to transmitter masts. Such masts have not been around for long enough and the evidence at the moment is largely anecdotal—people insist that symptoms that they experience are owing to a nearby mast. For us to be able to attribute to the masts measurable diseases, such as cancers, we would need to wait for the latency period to pass. Most cancers take many years to develop, and the masts have not been around for long enough. We would also need to see a significant number of cancerous tumours developing to gain statistical confidence that they are more frequent than we would expect. People are developing cancer all the time, as they grow old or because of their lifestyle. We would need to tease out all the other contributing factors. That relates to my point about the difficulty of attributing any cancers to the masts. Hence, there is a need for prevention in the first place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C666059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 666059,
      "EditedText": "You said that if clusters—of leukaemia or other types of cancer—developed around masts, you would not necessarily be able to attribute them to the emissions from masts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 666063,
      "EditedText": "Do you have a view on the directional effects of masts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 666065,
      "EditedText": "I have several quick questions about the NRPB. What status do you attach to the NRPB's guidance on emissions and their biological and epidemiological impact?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 666068,
      "EditedText": "You are asking some very sensitive questions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666069",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 666069,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 666071,
      "EditedText": "I will not press you further on that. How do you think that the NRPB's position fits in with the current state of external scientific advice on these matters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 666072,
      "EditedText": "It does not seem to consider all the evidence that I have seen and that has been reviewed by the Royal Society of Canada and by Repacholi. The NRPB does not take those studies seriously, on the ground that they have not been replicated. The notion of replication of studies is a big bone of contention. Dr Repacholi is a respected scientist who heads the World Health Organisation electromagnetic field programme research team. His study of transgenic mice has not been replicated, but it showed a twofold increase in the rate of cancer development in mice that had been made more susceptible to tumours by a gene that had been inserted into their genome. If a reputable scientist such as Dr Repacholi is ready to admit that his research on mice showed an increased risk of cancer after exposure to that kind of radiation, but nobody has replicated his work, does that mean that we should ignore it? Surely we cannot ignore a key piece of work, in a recently published journal, by a key international researcher."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 666074,
      "EditedText": "It seems to me that it would be reasonable for the NRPB to have the same approach to its non-thermal figure as it does to its thermal figure. The NRPB arrived at its thermal safety limit—which, I understand, is 10 W per kg for a specific part of the anatomy, and 0.4 W per kg for whole-body exposure—by identifying the level at which thermal radiation definitely has effects and introducing a safety factor of 10. It found that thermal effects are registered at 4 W per kg, then divided that by 10 to introduce a safety factor and published a limit of 0.4 W per kg as the specific absorption rate maximum, above which there should be an investigation.The NRPB should examine the biological effects at low intensities and divide those low intensities by 10 to establish a safety limit, which would be orders of magnitude lower. That seems reasonable, because at the moment the NRPB is ignoring all that biological evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 666076,
      "EditedText": "Very few studies measure biological effects in the communities around masts. That would be logistically difficult, so laboratories are used to reproduce the levels of radiation and pulsed frequencies. The studies might use 900 MHz or 1,800 MHz—the same as is used for the two types of cellphones in the UK. They use the same pulsing frequency and intensities—low intensities—that might exist around a transmitter mast. Rats and so on are exposed to those levels for 45 minutes or longer. A key feature is that rats might be exposed for 45 minutes or two hours when we are exposed to a mast for eight hours if we work near a building with a mast, or 12 hours if we sleep in a house near one.That is the way in which those experiments are approached generally—they are not carried out by going into the community near the mast. A few studies have measured the effects on children living near radio antennae, but the published studies that concern us—I have looked at eight at least—refer to laboratory conditions where the levels of radiation around a mast have been replicated and the effects measured on various aspects of physiology and behaviour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 666082,
      "EditedText": "There is a simple formula based on the inverse square law and using pi and so on. I submitted that information in my independent expert group submission, which is why the committee does not know about it. The submission to the committee was limited to six pages, which restricted how much information we could pass on—we could have passed on much more.The point is that you can plug in the acceptable maximum level if you arbitrarily adopt a more rigid safety standard than the one set by the NRPB. You would plug that value in and take into consideration the power coming off that mast and the linear gain of the beam coming off the mast to predict the minimum distance that would be required to achieve that safety standard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 666083,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that it could be done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 666085,
      "EditedText": "Would that take non-thermal effects into account?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 666086,
      "EditedText": "A more stringent safety standard would cover the non-thermal levels—the lower levels—and a spectrum analyser would detect those non-thermal levels."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 666099,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a good answer to that, except to reiterate that I do not have a vested interest. I am not linked to the Government and my remit is strictly to protect the health of my population."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 666102,
      "EditedText": "I thank you on behalf of the committee. We may wish to follow up for clarification some of the points that you have made—that also applies to Dr Ramsay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 666103,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 666110,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that some of my colleagues will come back on some of those points. However, I want to continue to focus on the status of the NRPB's advice and expertise for a couple of minutes. You said that the NRPB is not a regulatory body. In that context, how would you define the status of the NRPB's advice to the Government and other public bodies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 666112,
      "EditedText": "Some of the written and oral evidence that has been presented to us mentions the particular case of Tandridge District Council, which I think you will be aware of. The judgment in that case stated:\"In making a decision, they (the local authority) would have to take into account the advice of the NRPB\".Do you agree that your advice would be held in the highest regard and that it would underpin decisions that are taken every day in such applications?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 666113,
      "EditedText": "Planning issues are not for the NRPB, as it is not a regulatory body. We provide Government with advice and appropriate guidelines across the frequency spectrum. How those are implemented in planning decisions is not a responsibility for the NRPB; it is a responsibility for others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 666114,
      "EditedText": "My point is that the judgment accepts that the NRPB has to be referred to. Therefore, the weight of the NRPB's decisions, or the evidence that the organisation submits, informs people in relation to those planning decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 666116,
      "EditedText": "Do you accept that the NRPB's advice ought to be taken into account by the planning authorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 666118,
      "EditedText": "I would simply add that our remit is to provide scientifically based advice and information. In making decisions, there are socio-economic and political considerations that are equally important—more important, in a political sense. Therefore, while we hope to provide the best scientific advice that we can, we recognise that Government has to take many other issues into consideration when it forms policy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 666120,
      "EditedText": "We have been asked to examine emissions from different installations, including base stations, and to compare exposures at locations where members of the public might go with our guidelines. We did that across the country, at a range of different locations, as part of the service that we provide. We can talk about the results of those studies, if members wish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 666122,
      "EditedText": "We feel that we should have information on exposures from old and new technology."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 666125,
      "EditedText": "Can you give us an idea of the frequency of that, Dr McKinlay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 666131,
      "EditedText": "European legislation was approved in the form of a recommendation on 30 July 1999. The legislation states:\"Measures with regard to electromagnetic fields should afford all Community citizens a high level of protection; provisions by Member States in this area should be based on a commonly agreed framework so as to contribute to ensuring consistency of protection throughout the Community\".The recommended limits are five times more stringent than the NRPB's levels. Have you changed your advice in light of that? If you have not, does your view differ from that of the European Union? If you have, what has the EU said that has resulted in you changing your view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 666133,
      "EditedText": "Would you say, \"These are our guidelines, but EU guidelines are different\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 666137,
      "EditedText": "Will you clarify what you said about the relevance of the guidelines for base stations? I have read your report a few times and I have still not picked that up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 666142,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that they would want to; I am saying that it is a possibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 666143,
      "EditedText": "I see—you are asking about the general principle. Yes, they can operate up to the guidelines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 666144,
      "EditedText": "If your guidelines are set at a particular level, they can operate up to the guidelines; so if the guidelines were set at half of that level, they could operate only up to that new level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 666145,
      "EditedText": "In practice, people are clearly more exposed to radiation from phones than to radiation from base stations. Base stations are some distance away and exposure for the individual is quite small."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 666147,
      "EditedText": "We would say not—we would say that our guidelines offer protection for the general public as well as for people who might be exposed while working. The guidelines are not driven by the technology or what the devices are, they are driven by the scientific, biological, epidemiological and dosimetric evidence. That evidence, if more data came along, is what might change the guidelines, not the worry that somebody—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 666150,
      "EditedText": "So far. At the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 666151,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 666159,
      "EditedText": "And it is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 666160,
      "EditedText": "The answer is that we cannot identify any health benefit. However, we recognise that Government may wish to adopt the guidelines. That is a separate issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666166",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 666166,
      "EditedText": "I have been interested in the measurements that we have obtained over the past year or more, examining exposure in schools, housing estates and so on. If a housing estate is close to a certain base station, that is the base station that people will worry about, but there might be another one slightly further away. As Alastair McKinlay said, the base stations tend to point to the horizon rather than down, so if we measure exposure in the housing estate or school playground concerned, the exposure from the further base station might be greater than that from the nearer one. We might also find that, if there is a television transmitter some distance away, the exposure from it could be greater than from either of the base stations. Anybody anywhere could be exposed to radiation from a variety of sources—not necessarily the one that is visible nearby. Despite all that, the exposure at the given school or housing estate will be a thousandth, ten-thousandth or hundred-thousandth of what our guidelines permit, so, in all situations that we have measured, exposure at areas where members of the public may go will be very small. That is the sort of information that will be going in the report that we will publish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 666171,
      "EditedText": "It may become more critical to worry about where masts are. The industry might react to people's concerns about handsets by making masts transmit more strongly, so that the handsets are weaker—sorry, that was a stumbling explanation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 666176,
      "EditedText": "I want to go back to something you said in your introductory remarks, Mr Stather, about the NRPB's finances. I think you mentioned the £13 million budget, of which £6 million comes from Government and the rest from outside. Have you done work for telecommunications companies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 666177,
      "EditedText": "A very small amount."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 666179,
      "EditedText": "We had a parliamentary question in the spring: we had to look at the extent of funding from mobile phone companies. It was less than £20,000 over the previous three years, out of a budget of £13 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 666181,
      "EditedText": "A small amount of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 666182,
      "EditedText": "But regular, nonetheless."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 666184,
      "EditedText": "If we do not keep in contact with developments, we will not be able to give advice to Government or others of the consequences of those developments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 666186,
      "EditedText": "Local exposure happens when one holds a mobile phone next to one's ear. There are guidelines for that. Different standards apply to whole-body exposure, which can be caused by, for example, a base station some distance away. The body can cope more with heat from partial-body exposure than from whole-body exposure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 666190,
      "EditedText": "We have said that our standards are based on established thermal effects of radio-frequency radiation. However, it is not true to say that the standards do not address athermal effects. Although those effects might not be addressed quantitatively and specifically, they are addressed through a comprehensive review of the scientific studies on all athermal effects. Those studies have been examined by international commissions, the World Health Organisation, the NRPB and other national agencies, which agree that standards for radio frequency can be set only on thermal effects. Although the standards implicitly address athermal effects, figures can be derived only from thermal effects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 666192,
      "EditedText": "When scientists talk about established effects, they mean a body of consistent biological evidence that is supported by an understanding of mechanisms. That evidence is derived from studies that have been replicated from other studies conducted with excellent laboratory practice. When all that evidence is brought together, we clearly end up with expert scientists' value judgments about how the data fit in to the overall picture.The situation is analogous to a jigsaw—we have individual pieces but we need the whole picture. The bodies that set standards demand scientific rigour because they provide scientific evidence. However, that should not degrade individual studies. We have encouraged the replication of studies.The Repacholi study has been mentioned. That study is now being replicated. There are two replications that I know of: one is in Australia and another is part of the fifth framework programme in Europe. Those scientific studies are not ignored. Indeed, John Stather mentioned the European Commission's expert group, which I chaired in 1996. We put forward a raft of good proposals for research in this area, which are now being picked up under the fifth framework programme, at least in part. We are not ignoring individual studies and athermal effects—not at all.The same can be said for reported effects from members of the public—so-called anecdotal effects. We should not ignore anecdotal effects. We never ignore anecdotal effects, as they act as a stimulus that leads us to ask, \"Should we be examining this? What research should we recommend?\" They all have an important part to play. However, when it comes to advising on standards, we have a scientific basis that we must adhere to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 666194,
      "EditedText": "It will come only out of good research. I am hopeful that the EC fifth framework programme and the other studies will produce the evidence that we are looking for. The problem is that one negative study does not prove that the hazard does not exist. It is scientifically impossible to prove the absence of a health hazard. However, a series of studies—so-called negative studies, which produce no positive result—builds confidence in particular areas. That is what it is about. Similarly, one positive study does not prove the presence of a hazard; again, replication and scientific rigour is needed. That is the nature of the scientific process—peer review and journal publication."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 666195,
      "EditedText": "Some of your written evidence suggests that you are considering research into athermal effects. Is that going on at the moment? Have you started that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3431427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C666197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 666197,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify for me the timing of all this? Are the 1993 guidelines the ones that you still apply?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 666206,
      "EditedText": "We hope that we have stimulated wider scientific research through Alastair McKinlay's chairmanship of the European Commission expert group that met from the end of 1995 to 1996.We have kept closely in touch with the work that is being done in the United States. We go to Washington every other year to visit the agencies that fund research, so we know what is happening there. Because of our international involvement in various organisations, committees and groups, and our attendance at scientific meetings, we have a pretty good idea of what is happening on the subject around the world, and have done for some time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 666210,
      "EditedText": "Much of what I wanted to ask about has been skirted around already, so I apologise if this seems repetitive, but I want to be clear about a number of things.In paragraph 15 of your submission, you quote the conclusion of your advisory group on non-ionising radiation at its meeting in May 1999\"that there is no human evidence of a risk of cancer resulting from exposure to radiations that arise from mobile phones\".Is your judgment as robust for the influence that such radiation might have on the rate of progression or development of cancer as it is for the effect on the initiation of cancer? Is the conclusion clear in both cases?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 666211,
      "EditedText": "That conclusion is based on the input of the epidemiologists on that group, who had considered the totality of the information that was available. The evidence is that there is not enough energy in the radiations to damage DNA, so they are unlikely to initiate cancer. The only proposition has been that they might promote cancer—they might speed up its development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 666218,
      "EditedText": "Were you impressed by the evidence of Dr Ramsay and Dr Irvine, who indicated that there were links between mobile phone radiation and lymphomas and melanomas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 666220,
      "EditedText": "You are not saying, therefore, that there is no risk, simply that there is no evidence of a risk. You have not come to a firm conclusion. You are saying that—on the basis of the research that has been done and in the absence of high-quality studies—it cannot be demonstrated that a risk exists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 666223,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 666224,
      "EditedText": "I understand.In a sense, the convener asked my next question a few minutes ago. Will you be quite clear about the evidence that you would need to be able to advise categorically that there is no health risk? Given the knowledge that you said you have of the on-going research, what is the time scale for such certainty to arise? Will we ever really know? It was pointed out earlier that it is impossible to prove negatives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 666229,
      "EditedText": "We certainly examine the matter closely and carefully, but we are a scientific organisation. Our advice must be based on our best interpretation of the totality of the available scientific evidence. That is what we continue to do. The Government might want to take account of other issues, but as a scientific organisation considering the scientific literature and developing scientific advice and guidelines, we can go only so far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 666231,
      "EditedText": "Our board has told the Government that there might be other factors that it would want to take on board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "ContributionID": 666238,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 562.0,
      "ContributionID": 666246,
      "EditedText": "We have a mix of board members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 564.0,
      "ContributionID": 666247,
      "EditedText": "You could supply us with a list of the NRPB's board members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 568.0,
      "ContributionID": 666249,
      "EditedText": "That is the sort of information that I wanted—the board collectively arrives at a value judgment that it would then recommend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 574.0,
      "ContributionID": 666252,
      "EditedText": "I will leave one copy; I am sure that the clerks can photocopy it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 666253,
      "EditedText": "Could I ask one question to satisfy myself about your earlier comments on the way in which masts work in terms of the focus? Why we do talk about areas around the mast of 2 m to 5 m, if, as you say, the signal has already gone out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 666254,
      "EditedText": "I was referring to those areas specifically in relation to possible occupational exposure for the people who make repairs or structural changes to the masts. An area inside which guidelines would be exceeded should be marked on the ground. That would create an exclusion area or, if someone needed to get closer, would require the mast to be shut down. That was my point. We would not expect the general public to have access to such an area, but that is another point about the limitation of access."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 666256,
      "EditedText": "That would not intercept the beam."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 666258,
      "EditedText": "Yes. In our experience, when masts have been placed on school roofs, for example, the level of exposure inside classrooms has been very small."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666260",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 666260,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 593.0,
      "ContributionID": 666261,
      "EditedText": "The Public Petitions Committee met on 2 November to consider petitions received by the Parliament. At that meeting, five petitions were referred to the Transport and the Environment Committee. Petition PE16 was also referred to the Rural Affairs Committee.Petition PE16, from Jimmy Oswald, is on action to reverse the decline of the capercaillie in Scotland. Members will have read the petition and we may want to ask the Scottish Executive and Scottish National Heritage to provide details of the approach to the protection of the capercaillie: the practical effects of the listing of the bird under schedule 2 as opposed to schedule 1 in the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981; current and predicted future levels of capercaillie; and measures that are in place at present to protect the capercaillie, together with the adequacy of those measures. We might also want to ask the petitioner to confirm the basis of the research that relates to the predicted decline in numbers of capercaillie. Do any members want to add anything to that list of actions that the committee might want to take? Are those actions agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 621.0,
      "ContributionID": 666274,
      "EditedText": "You flagged up in the report that we might consider the strategic roads review. I do not think that it is particularly important that we do that before Christmas, but there is a great deal of work that the committee could be getting on with in that area. We would not want to revisit the politics of the decisions that have been made, because we have already had a debate in the Parliament about that. However, it would be useful for us to have an opportunity to discuss with the minister where the review goes from here.How do the local authority initiatives progress? How do the deferred schemes get reconsidered, if at any stage they do? How do additional projects that might be considered important in the long term fit in? What about the multimodal travel studies to which the minister referred in her statement? After the debate, we received the big booklet containing the detailed information. We should have time to reflect on that and, in a calm and structured way, to explore its implications and how the Executive sees the situation evolving over the next decade."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 625.0,
      "ContributionID": 666276,
      "EditedText": "There are three other—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 635.0,
      "ContributionID": 666281,
      "EditedText": "Not quite yet. I will let you make your bid, none the less."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ID": 25741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 637.0,
      "ContributionID": 666282,
      "EditedText": "We do not want to fall behind other countries in our use of renewable energy, so we should ensure that that issue is discussed. Railtrack and airports are other topical matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:39.3587413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 665978,
      "EditedText": "We are funded by the national health service. The Scottish Centre for Infection and Environmental Health is the amalgamation of two units. One of those was the Communicable Diseases Scotland Unit, which was set up in the 1960s following the Aberdeen typhoid outbreak and which provided a national centre in the field of communicable disease. A similar centre was established in the early 1990s for environmental health. Those centres were amalgamated in the 1990s, which is how SCIEH came into existence.The centre employs a wide range of people who have expertise in communicable disease and environmental health, who are there to provide support and advice when health boards and local authorities, or indeed the Scottish Executive, have issues that need to be researched, which are beyond the capabilities of the ordinary individual. Our purpose is to evaluate scientific evidence, arrive at conclusions and give advice. That is the way in which we operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 665980,
      "EditedText": "The topic is a complex one, as I am sure you appreciate. There is an enormous wealth of literature on the subject, volumes of material. It would be difficult for one individual to research every paper that has ever been written on the subject. We need to examine reviews that have been conducted by leading authorities on the subject, who are experts and who have an unbiased viewpoint. For example, a very good review of this subject, which was conducted by the Royal Society of Canada, was published in March. That organisation researched all the papers that relate to the subject and concluded that biological effects exist and should be taken into account. That is the kind of material that I would refer to before coming to my conclusions on the matter.There are clearly an awful lot of scientific and technical issues behind the subject. I do not have a background in physics that would enable me to assess those aspects, so I must rely, to some extent, on the abilities of expert reviewers who publish work in peer review journals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 665981,
      "EditedText": "Are you bringing your expertise in epidemiology and public health to what you perceive as a problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 665982,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to interpret it from a public health perspective and trying to make a judgment on the basis of the scientific evidence. There are differing perspectives on where guidelines should be set. Some people say that they should be set on the basis of hard-and-fast scientific evidence; others who adopt a more wide-ranging view of health may consider that other aspects should be taken into account in setting guidelines. That brings a public health perspective into consideration, as opposed to a purely scientific perspective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665990",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 665990,
      "EditedText": "Those are interesting questions. It seems that not much in the way of mandatory regulation of monitoring is required once masts are erected. That situation must be examined. Surveys have been conducted on a rather ad hoc basis by some local authorities, but there are question marks about whether some of the equipment that they have used is sensitive enough to detect the levels that people are interested in.The whole question of monitoring has not been sufficiently explored in terms of routine use. More should be done to prove that masts meet adequate criteria rather than accepting that they have been set up to meet technical criteria."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 665996,
      "EditedText": "That is difficult to predict. Attempts have been made to consider the whole question from the point of view of epidemiology—studying the distribution of diseases associated with exposure. The problem with that is that we have not had long enough to do good epidemiological studies. It is also extremely difficult for studies to measure the exposure for an individual, because that changes so much over time. Some studies have indicated increases in lymphomas and the possibility of cancer promotion caused by low-level radiation. That may seem to affect only a small number of people, but it  could become significant if large numbers of people are exposed over a long period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 666000,
      "EditedText": "They are known, but do not ask me to quote the figures. Studies on a range of different oscillating frequencies have shown that different frequencies have different effects. There has also been evidence of thermal effects. It has been pointed out that altering the base level frequency at which radio waves have been pitched can cause  different changes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 666002,
      "EditedText": "That is a possibility. However, that is a very technical issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 666005,
      "EditedText": "Would you make any distinction between the energy levels from mobile phone handsets and from masts, or is the effect that you describe a general one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ramsay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 666020,
      "EditedText": "There are two ways in which to adopt the precautionary approach. One can set a relatively arbitrary physical limit of, say, 100 m, and say that there should not be a base station within that distance of the boundaries of a school, on the basis that that will minimise exposure. However, although children may be in school for seven hours a day, five days a week, what about the rest of the time? Children are in their homes and their local environments. How does one set guidelines? Perhaps that is not the best way to go, although it might be a pragmatic approach. It would reassure parents, and others, that something was being done to minimise exposure.The second approach might be to consider the energy levels impinging on particular sites. That would demand a much more robust mechanism for measuring the output from transmitters, and measuring levels at places such as schools.The second option would probably be much more expensive and technically difficult. It would be easier and more pragmatic, but relatively arbitrary, to set a limit of 100 m, for example. That approach has been adopted in a number of countries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 666021,
      "EditedText": "You have answered my next question as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 666024,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 666025,
      "EditedText": "What is the best international practice of which you are aware?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 666029,
      "EditedText": "I know that you come from a medical background rather than an environmental health background, but could you tell me what equipment is available to measure the output of the masts? Do our local authorities have the equipment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 666033,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, people cannot object to the siting of a mast on health grounds. Would you like the planning regulations to be expanded?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C666037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 666037,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned that, in Britain, there had been a loose regime to begin with to allow the industry to establish itself. Was the development of the Italian industry adversely affected by the fact that, as you said, the Italian regime is very tough?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C666039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 666039,
      "EditedText": "The committee has heard a lot of evidence on this subject. Why should we give more weight to the evidence that you give than to that given by the NRPB?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 666041,
      "EditedText": "If there are no further questions, I want to thank Dr Ramsay. That was an interesting, full and frank discussion. We appreciate your openness. I have some news about the heating. The boiler is on the blink—to use the technical term. The engineer has been sent for, but we will not be the beneficiaries of his visit. Sadly, we must continue in this rather chilly climate. I invite Dr Helene Irvine of Greater Glasgow Health Board to join us. People on the public benches may find that some of the questions that we will ask are similar to those that we asked previously, but we are trying to hear the views of different organisations. The questions are valid. We want to determine the broader picture. I welcome Dr Irvine. Thank you for your written evidence and for the evidence that we are about to receive—as they say. You are most welcome. Nora Radcliffe will start the questioning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 666042,
      "EditedText": "What view do you and the Greater Glasgow Health Board take on the issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Helene Irvine (Greater Glasgow Health Board): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 666043,
      "EditedText": "Would you like me to answer that before I give my five-minute presentation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 666048,
      "EditedText": "I would not suggest for a second that I am an expert in this field. I have a bachelor of science degree in physiology, a master of science degree in human biology, a medical degree from Canada and a master of public health degree from the University of Glasgow. After five years of training, I am qualified in public health with a postgraduate qualification in public health medicine.I have been concerned with this subject only since February, so I do not have nearly as many years of experience as some of the scientists of the NRPB. The big thing in my favour is that my only remit is to protect the health of my population at GGHB. I do not have any vested interests. My aim is not to publish a paper to further my career, because I have what I want in life, which is a consultant's job in a health board near where I live. I do not have any connections with the industry or with Government, which, indirectly, has an interest in promoting this technology."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C666049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 666049,
      "EditedText": "That was a very fair round-up. What is your relationship with local authorities, and what sort of advice, about planning and environmental health, do you proffer them or do they seek from you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 666052,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and not only from my own patch, but from throughout the United Kingdom."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 666054,
      "EditedText": "I have to say that I am not a biophysicist, I am not a bioengineer and I am not a molecular biologist, so all those questions are difficult for me. However, knowing how complex the human body is—and I have had that drummed into me during my 20 years of education—knowing how subtle the effects of new forms of radiation can be, and understanding the pulsed nature of some forms of digital cellphone radiation, I feel that it is reasonable to say that radiation might interact with living things to turn on or turn off existing cell processes. It is a well-known phenomenon that a flashing light can induce a seizure in an epileptic. It is not the intensity of the light that can trigger the epileptic seizure, but its pulsed, recurring nature and the fact that it is in synchronisation with some of the cells at the site of the trigger in the brain. That sort of mechanism is a possible cause of biological effects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C666057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 666057,
      "EditedText": "In your research, what did you find out about the health effects of long-term exposure to emissions from land-based telecommunications equipment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666060",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 666060,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, clusters would not be developing on account of the masts, unless they applied to children, who can develop leukaemia very quickly. Clusters are measured all the time, but is difficult to attribute them to environmental hazards. There is a controversial debate in the UK about the aetiology of the clusters. Some people support the view that people come into contact with viruses when they move into a new area and that that is why there are clusters around nuclear installations and so on. It is incredibly difficult to attribute ill health to an environmental hazard. My view, which can at times be cynical, is that we never want to pin anything on the environment any more—we say that things are all to do with lifestyle or perhaps with genetic make-up or occupation. One would think that we lived in an environmentally pure world, because we can never pin any ill health on chemical reprocessing plants, nuclear installations, landfill sites and so on. It is difficult to prove a link with something in the environment, perhaps because we have set difficult standards for ourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C666061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 666061,
      "EditedText": "In your opinion, will the continuing research give us more conclusive evidence in due course?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 666070,
      "EditedText": "When I appeared at the NRPB seminar, I was extremely impressed by the articulate, intelligent and informed nature of the lectures. I have heard that things are not that rosy at the NRPB, but I have no insider knowledge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C666075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 666075,
      "EditedText": "That is helpful. Much of the scientific evidence that you quote focuses on cellphones rather than on masts. What scientific evidence relates to transmitters, base stations and other forms of fixed telecommunications equipment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 666080,
      "EditedText": "That is arbitrary—it is like asking how long a piece of string is. We must take a pragmatic approach. A sensitive area is anywhere where people spend a lot of time, and particularly where children are growing up. Because children tend to grow up with their parents, we must consider nursery schools, primary schools and residential areas generally. That does not mean that we want to ban all masts in residential areas—it means that every mast must be carefully considered and its levels monitored well into the future so that, if radio signal traffic goes up—as we envisage that it will—we know that we have a grip on the situation and that it is not out of control.I said earlier that if you wanted to put a mast on a school, you would have to persuade parents that when they are driving their children to school and dropping them off they are not in the beam, and that their house a mile away is not in the beam. Schools tend not to be isolated from communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 666084,
      "EditedText": "It is a rough and ready formula, which has a limited application, as it applies only when there is a single mast. In cities, in particular, there are masts all over the place, so there might be summative effects. It is naïve to think that we could predict levels in each case. The gold standard would be to measure the level with a spectrum analyser to ensure that the level is as low as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C666087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 666087,
      "EditedText": "What about forms of telecommunications equipment other than masts, such as micro-equipment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 666090,
      "EditedText": "There is a whole range of technical issues—roaming, sharing of masts, and so on—that should be addressed by a cellphone engineer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C666091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 666091,
      "EditedText": "You have given GGHB's position on the precautionary approach; what are the views of other health boards?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Irvine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 666092,
      "EditedText": "My impression is that most health boards knew very little about the matter until February. That is why I am peeved with the NRPB for dealing with the subject in such a cursory manner at our educational session. Most consultants in Scotland know little about it and are looking to the Scottish Centre for Infection and Environmental Health or to me for guidance. Some consultants have asked for the report that I have been preparing, and have decided to wait until it is available. I do not blame them, as I would not wish having to start from scratch and looking at all this material on anyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C666096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 666096,
      "EditedText": "Both."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C666098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25739,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 666098,
      "EditedText": "Why should we give your evidence higher priority than that of the NRPB—the Government body that was set up to give advice on electromagnetic fields?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 666100,
      "EditedText": "In your submission, you concentrated on anecdotal reports of symptoms from users. You suggest that there is a marked variation in the radiation levels emitted by phones of different prices and so on. Should there be tighter guidelines? Is it a matter for labelling or for giving consumers advice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr John Stather (National Radiological Protection Board): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 666106,
      "EditedText": "I thank you for this opportunity to speak to the committee. My name is John Stather and I am the deputy director of the National Radiological Protection Board. I am also responsible for the work of one of the divisions that covers ionising and non-ionising radiation effects. I am joined by Dr Alastair McKinlay, who heads the physical dosimetry department, which is concerned principally with measuring exposures to electromagnetic fields covering the whole frequency range, as well as with ultraviolet radiation. He is also the vice-chairman of the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection.I shall spend a couple of minutes outlining what NRPB is as an organisation. We were set up by the Radiological Protection Act 1970. We are an independent, so-called arm's-length body. We are not civil servants, although our conditions of service are not very different. Our chairman and board members are appointed by health ministers, and our staff are appointed by the board. We are responsible for giving advice on both ionising and non-ionising radiations to Government, local authorities, industry, individuals, the media, and anybody who asks for it. We also carry out research to underpin the advice that we give, and we provide services for which we charge. We have three service-oriented centres: one at Chilton, in Oxfordshire, where we are based, one in Leeds, and NRPB Scotland in Glasgow. We can provide regional services throughout the country.When we were first set up, our responsibility was to give advice on ionising radiations such as X-rays, gamma rays, beta particles and alpha particles. Our remit was changed, in 1975, to cover non-ionising radiation as well: ultraviolet radiation, lasers, and a whole spectrum of electromagnetic fields from power frequencies and static frequencies to the frequencies that are involved in telecommunications, with which we are concerned today.The only other aspect that I should mention is funding. Our annual budget is about £13 million, of which about £6 million comes from Government. Most of that comes from the Department of Health, but about £300,000 comes from the Scottish Executive. We earn the rest by providing services. We earn money from the European Commission for carrying out research and we carry out applied research for other organisations throughout the country. We get quite a lot of money from offering radiation protection advice as well as a range of other services. That provides the other £8 million that we need to run the organisation.Finally, I should point out that we are not a regulatory body, but an advisory body. Other organisations in Government are responsible for providing and enforcing regulations. That is as much as I need to say by way of an introduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C666117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Stather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 666117,
      "EditedText": "Our advice is the basis of UK advice. We do not give advice on particular installations. Our advice is generic across the frequency spectrum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C666119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3968
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications",
      "HeadingID": 25739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 666119,
      "EditedText": "I want to stick with the science point. Given that local authorities probably accept that they have little in the way of such scientific expertise, do you agree that it would be important for the NRPB to state the extent to which emissions impact on health and to give clearer guidance on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6556278+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 604477,
      "EditedText": "I, too, want to thank you for giving evidence. It is difficult to talk about such a personal situation in a room like this. Kait, please convey our thanks to your mother for her testimony.From your experience, is the pursuance of council tax the main reason for poindings and warrant sales? What other measures could councils take in the legal enforcement of debt recovery if this bill were to go through? What dangers would those measures present to people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 17 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18304,
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      "ContributionID": 604445,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:07"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18305,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 604446,
      "EditedText": "I welcome members to the meeting. Before I ask our witnesses to introduce themselves and so on, we must conduct a wee bit of bureaucratic business—there is a standard procedure for going through the committee's agenda. Having looked through the action points from our previous meeting, I do not think that there is much that we need to discuss at the moment. Most of the points concern the processing of work. Do committee members want to highlight any of them, or shall we go through them one by one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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      "Heading": "Action Points",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 604451,
      "EditedText": "I have spoken to Fiona Hyslop about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 604454,
      "EditedText": "Martin Verity will consider our scheduling of meetings—the people whom we have invited and the time that we are committing—to establish when that can be appropriately squeezed on to the agenda. It might be when we are taking evidence from one outside agency rather than two. Martin and I will consider that.Thanks very much, folks. Let us move to the substance of today's meeting—our first consideration of the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott (Lothian Anti-Poverty Alliance): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 604456,
      "EditedText": "I am Bill Scott of Lothian Anti-Poverty Alliance. We are a local anti-poverty group, which comprises around 150 agencies that are active in anti-poverty work in the Lothians. Those agencies range from national organisations, such as the Scottish poverty information unit and the Scottish low pay unit, to local community groups that have no funding—groups of lone parents, old-age pensioners, disabled people and so on. We represent those who work with people who live in poverty and those who live in poverty.I am pleased to be here today, as I think that this is what the Parliament is about—representatives of the people who elect the Parliament coming to speak directly to it. The bill directly affects the lives of those who live in poverty, so it is absolutely right that they should be here to give their opinion on it.My organisation is a part of the Communities Against Poverty Network, about which Mary Patterson will say a little. The network has members throughout Scotland, from the outer isles to the inner cities and from Thurso to Dumfries. It is representative of communities throughout Scotland that live in poverty. The committee has received a written submission that sets out our position in a wee bit of detail and I shall return to some of the points that are made in it. We thought that, to give a truer understanding of the way in which poindings and warrant sales affect people who live in poverty, it would be better for the committee to hear directly from people who have been affected by the process. I have experienced the threat of poindings and warrant sales, but I do not live in poverty at the moment. The first speaker to put our case will be Margo Kirkwood. Margo comes from Paisley. She is a parent who is active in her local tenants association and community council. She is also a volunteer who works with people who have mental health problems and she is involved in trying to establish a local community arts project. She will detail her experiences of the threat of poindings and warrant sales."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kait Laughlin: ",
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      "ContributionID": 604472,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. If you cannot find the money elsewhere, that is where you will go."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 604462,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much Kait—that was extremely helpful.I can sense by their body language that members are desperate to question you, Bill."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 604465,
      "EditedText": "Kait and Margo have made the case very strongly that the people we are talking about are not people who shirk their responsibilities to their local communities; they are exactly the sort of active citizens—people who are involved in their communities—that the Government wants to encourage. They represent tens of thousands of decent families who live on low incomes and cannot afford to pay their debts. Because of that, they face the threat of poindings each and every year.Local authorities do not have a choice about whether to send a case to the sheriff officers: they must follow the legislation. They do not have a choice about whether to impose poindings and warrant sales: they must use every legal form of debt recovery that is available to them.A total of 800,000 Scottish people are living on incomes that are at or below income support levels; 300,000 of those are pensioners and 118,000 are disabled people. Independent research shows time after time that income support is not enough to purchase an adequate diet. That is why those people are in debt. That is why they cannot afford to pay their bills. Is it not enough that they feel the shame of not being able to pay their bills, without the state endorsing that by publicly humiliating them? Humiliation is what people feel when sheriff officers come knocking at their doors to carry out poindings, to take their furniture, and to carry out warrant sales. Poindings and warrant sales are the moral equivalent of the 18th century public stocks and scolding stools, which people had to sit in or be chained to, to be publicly humiliated. Poindings and warrant sales should go the same way—they should be consigned to the history books. I am asking the committee to help to create a modern and socially inclusive Scotland, which is what the Parliament is here to do. Get rid of warrant sales and poindings."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 604467,
      "EditedText": "I think that you were arguing that the evidence the committee has received from the Scottish Law Commission and the Scottish Executive is that poindings and warrant sales are effective because they make people pay their debts. It is interesting that you said that, when confronted with sheriff officers, people go to moneylenders. Some people argue that abolishing poindings and warrant sales would stop people turning to moneylenders because they would settle their debts normally through the councils. What is your experience of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 604480,
      "EditedText": "For the record, I should mention my membership of the Law Society of Scotland, of the Scottish Law Agents Society and of Ross Harper & Murphy. I do not think that that gives me an interest, but it should be stated.Some interesting points have come out of the discussion. I want to widen the scope a little from the experience of individuals. As you know, people's basic furniture is exempted from poinding. Under the current law, what things are typically poinded?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 604487,
      "EditedText": "I have two other points. The first relates to the powers that exist under the current law to have new applications for warrant sales recalled. The Executive document suggests that those are hardly ever used. As advisers and people involved with the groups concerned, is it your perception that those powers are known about either by individuals or by advisers?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604488",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
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      "EditedText": "Advisers certainly know about them, and people who seek good advice about what the sheriff officer can and cannot do usually get it. Quite often, that advice will enable them to say to the sheriff officer, \"You can't take that,\" or, \"You can't value that.\" The problem is that people who do not seek advice do not know what their rights are, so they will not challenge what the sheriff officer is doing."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604489",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 604489,
      "EditedText": "Leaving aside the recovery of debts, is there a more general problem of availability of advice? From what you are saying, there would seem to be a mismatch between the number of people who are caught up in this kind of situation—most of whom do not understand their legal rights—and access to and people's willingness to seek advice. Can you say anything useful about that? Regardless of what happens to this bill, we will need to consider the issue of advice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 604492,
      "EditedText": "We all know that there is a problem with access to credit for ordinary families—whole areas can be inappropriately blacklisted—but that is another issue that needs to be examined. Some of the evidence that we have received against the bill says that less credit will be available in poorer areas if warrant sales and poindings are abolished. People argue that while the bill may introduced with good will, it will cause more problems because credit companies will no longer provide services. What is your experience of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 604497,
      "EditedText": "It is obvious that people who live in poverty have very few possessions that are worth poinding. The statistics are available from the Scottish Executive: 85 per cent of poindings and warrant sales recover nothing towards the original debt. I am sure that that figure rises to 100 per cent for warrant sales on people living in poverty. The sheriff officer's fees may be partially recovered, but that is all and I believe that that is why poindings and warrant sales occasionally take place. I cannot see why a local authority would have an interest in not recovering any of the debt, but carrying out a warrant sale. Because the debt is passed to the sheriff officer for recovery, the local authority loses the ability to say that it does not want a warrant sale to go ahead. There are fewer warrant sales—500 in the most recent year for which figures are available—than poindings, but the threat of the warrant sale has an effect on people. Margo and Kait made that point very effectively. The warrant sale is a legalised form of loan sharking. People are forced into giving back more than they can afford because of the threat of a warrant sale being carried out, and of losing something that is much more valuable than the £10 or £15 that will be made through selling the TV, video recorder or CD player."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margo Kirkwood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 604499,
      "EditedText": "What gets me is that they seem to take great pleasure in intimidating people. The tone of voice that these people use is insulting, and I take offence at it. I feel that I am articulate and reasonably intelligent, but I dread to think about the effect that these people have on a person with learning disabilities or on an old wee person. It is horrendous that they should have the freedom to treat people with such disrespect. I am writing a complaint to them, because the first line of their charter says that they treat their customers with respect and courtesy. They certainly do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margo Kirkwood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 604501,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 604504,
      "EditedText": "Is your experience typical, Margo?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 604506,
      "EditedText": "I also have experience of sheriff officers phoning at night, looking for my daughter for poll tax arrears. Fair enough—that is her responsibility, but they did not identify themselves. The caller said, \"Hi there. Is Victoria in?\" I asked who was calling and was given only a first name. I told my daughter that there was someone on the phone for her, but when she answered the phone she was told, \"This is the sheriff officer and we're after you for poll tax and you must pay this.\" She was given terms that she must meet and came off the phone quite shaken. I dialled 1471 to find out the sheriff officer's number as I thought that that was an intrusive, fly way of contacting people. However, the number had been withheld, so that people could not shout abuse back or tell them, \"This is a ridiculous way of doing this.\"I am not saying that sheriff officers should not be after my daughter for her poll tax arrears, but they are intruding by coming to people's houses at night. As Margo said, people cannot get hold of them between the hours of 9 and 5 and yet they phone people at home to ask them to come in half an hour early the next day so that they can pay the sheriff officer something. There is no way we can do that, yet we receive these intrusive threats over the phone in our own homes at night."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 604509,
      "EditedText": "I should declare an interest; I am a co-sponsor of this bill, along with John McAllion. I am a co-sponsor because I have direct experience of helping people who have suffered warrant sales. Three things strike me about warrant sales. First, the poorer sections of the community bear the brunt of the warrant sales regime, which has been proved to be the case by what the witnesses have told us this morning. Secondly, the major beneficiaries of warrant sales are the sheriff officers, who act like bully-boys—warrant sales are a bully-boys' charter. Thirdly, crooked moneylenders and loan sharks are also major beneficiaries of the system.In The Scotsman this morning, some of the evidence that has been submitted to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee is quoted. I want to quote a couple of comments from the article and ask the witnesses for their reaction. A fair amount of written and oral evidence is being submitted to three different committees of the Parliament and a pattern is emerging. Well-heeled organisations such as the Law Society of Scotland, the Scottish Law Commission and the Scottish Executive, who employ people on £40,000, £50,000 or £60,000 a year, are against the bill; the people who represent the poorer sections of the community and who recognise their difficulties support it. As I said, I want to quote from The Scotsman article. The Scotsman is always reliable—as is The Herald, of course. The Scottish branch of a London-run organisation—the Institute of Revenues, Rating and Valuation—claims in its submission that:\"the abolition proposal is ill-conceived, borne of political expediency and made in ignorance of the way debt collection procedures operate\".It continues:\"The paper states that the threat of poindings and warrant sales—involving the sale of a person's household goods—is still the lever that ‘unlocks' payment and adds: ‘To abolish that threat without replacing it will present a real and substantial threat to the effectiveness of the whole debt recovery system in Scotland'\". The witnesses' evidence is that warrant sales only transfer debt from one organisation to another, which gets people deeper into debt. What is their response to the finance officers' claim that we are all ignorant of the debt recovery procedures in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 604510,
      "EditedText": "We keep coming back to the fact that you cannot get blood from a stone except by one method—to make people crack and humiliate them. People can get money to pay a debt, but only by getting in debt with someone else. There is no escape from the threat of warrant sales for the person living in debt.However, there are other ways of collecting debt. It can be recovered from people's benefits or wages. If the person owns a house, an inhibition can be placed on the sale of the house. Those methods are fairly substantial and cover most of the population.We have not emphasised strongly enough the fact that people with money can afford legal advice to help them avoid their responsibilities. People with no money have no possibility of escape. They are like the rabbit in the headlights: fate is bearing down on them and there is nothing that they can do about it. There were 20,000 poindings last year, probably the same number in the year before that and so on. We are talking about an enormous number of people, some of whom will have experienced more than one warrant sale.Warrant sales might be crudely effective in recovering debt, but that is only by robbing Peter to pay Paul."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604512",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 604512,
      "EditedText": "There are many ways. I would like a credit union to be established in every community in Scotland, with the backing of the Executive. I am a member of a credit union, but only because my wife works in local government. I could not otherwise have joined a credit union because I do not live in one of the few areas that have one. My money could help someone who is living in poverty—my savings could be used as collateral for them to borrow against. That is real social credit.However, to use a credit union, an individual must have some money to save. There is a limit to what the Government can do about the amount of money that comes into people's homes and I acknowledge what the Government is doing to help people into work, but some people—pensioners, disabled people and income support claimants—live on incomes that barely allow them to feed themselves."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kait Laughlin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 604513,
      "EditedText": "I am involved in an anti-poverty group in Partick that is trying to set up an advice centre—something that Partick has not had since the previous one closed down years ago. I would like there to be a nationwide network of properly funded advice centres."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 604517,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I have not come across anybody who is not making an effort to pay off his or her debts. They are aware of the debts and they want to pay. However, the demands that they face are usually unreasonable. You have already heard that someone who is living on £51 a week is being asked for £15 a week. That is just impossible. They can afford £2 or £3 a week, and are willing to pay that, but that is not acceptable to local authorities. Threats of poindings and warrant sales are then used to increase the amount that will be given. I have seen families break up through debt and particularly as a result of the threat of a poinding or a warrant sale, which just adds to the problems in communities. Suddenly the local authority has two households to house, rather than the one it had to house when a couple was together. We are destroying families by bringing this threat to bear on them."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 604518,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add that people are desperately trying to pay off their debts. The reason for their appearance at the sheriff officers office is that they have fallen behind on payments, because of the poverty in which they live. However, the sheriff officer will not accept that people can fall behind on payments. People cannot say that they cannot pay for the next three weeks because a big bill has arrived, but that they will start paying again. If people break an agreement, a warrant is enforced on them and there is no negotiation.If the warrant sale is removed, people will be able to negotiate payment of the debt. There are times when people will not meet the payments—that is why they are in debt in the first place. The abolition of the warrant sale will give them the opportunity to get in touch with the authorities without fear and to say, \"Something has happened and I will not be able to pay for the next two or three weeks. Will you accept that I will start paying again when I can?\" It will give people the opportunity eventually to get on top of their debts without fear."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 604519,
      "EditedText": "I thank all the women for their moving evidence, and I appreciate their frankness with the committee. The message that is coming through is that the lever that gets people out of debt is confrontation of those debts. However, the warrant sales system instils fear in people and does not allow them to confront their debts. Instead, they put the problem to one side and hope that it will go away.I was interested in the point that Mary Patterson raised. My experience in local government has taught me that this is a mountain that is impossible to climb. Once someone falls into arrears with their council tax, the situation is out of everybody's control because it is impossible for someone on a low income to confront that debt. Do you agree that we need a legislative change to change the methods for collection of council tax?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 604521,
      "EditedText": "The person who owes the tax does not win. The council does not win. The only winner is the sheriff officer, because the local taxpayer is keeping the sheriff officer going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 604523,
      "EditedText": "That is an interesting standpoint that might get the council into trouble with the auditors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 604524,
      "EditedText": "Would not it be helpful if other councils in Scotland followed that example?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 604526,
      "EditedText": "If the bill reaches the statute book, it will rescue many of those councillors from that predicament. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 604535,
      "EditedText": "It does not mention dates. We will get as much information on dates to you as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 604538,
      "EditedText": "When they can, members are strongly encouraged to attend the meetings of other committees that are hearing evidence, and to read the Official Report and written submissions. The problem is that members are meeting in so many committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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      "ID": 18306,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 604541,
      "EditedText": "So it is on its way to me.Four groups are scheduled to give oral evidence to the committee. It has taken just over an hour to take evidence from the Communities Against Poverty Network. We have two evidence-taking meetings before Christmas; could not we fit the other three organisations into those two meetings? We could have taken evidence from another group this morning. I imagine that Citizens Advice is likely to give much the same evidence as the group from which we heard this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 604542,
      "EditedText": "I will consider that suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 604543,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether we should hear from the Law Society at the same meeting as the Department of Social Security, or whether Citizens Advice should be together with the Law Society. It is sometimes useful to hear two balancing views at the same meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 604544,
      "EditedText": "Today we have heard evidence in a more leisurely manner than at some of our previous meetings, when evidence has been taken in a rush. It was good that we did not feel that somebody would be done out of a question if we did not rush."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 604545,
      "EditedText": "It was much easier for me.There are other items of business for the committee to take, such as the voluntary sector report and discussions to refocus the drugs inquiry. It might be useful to have an hour for those items of business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604547",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 604547,
      "EditedText": "We will ensure that copies of the Official Report of the other committees are sent to members of this committee. I cannot make promises about the speed with which the Official Report for those meetings will be produced because there is a schedule to be followed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 604549,
      "EditedText": "We will, and we will ensure that members get copies of all the reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 604556,
      "EditedText": "Alex, do not be ridiculous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 604562,
      "EditedText": "I do not criticise another committee of the Parliament, but I must question the justice that can be done to three such serious items in one meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 604565,
      "EditedText": "We will now move on to the final agenda item, which is the timetable. We will stick with the timetable as written."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 18307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 604574,
      "EditedText": "Has it requested to give oral evidence, Martin?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 604579,
      "EditedText": "It will be officials, and their evidence will be about the operations of the department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18307,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 604581,
      "EditedText": "Presumably, they will be talking about their work in relation to this legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 18307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 604583,
      "EditedText": "I cannot remember which category they are in, but it is about administration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18307,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 604584,
      "EditedText": "They are under the category of being opposed to the bill on one of the lists. We need clarification as to whether they are coming to make a political point about opposition to the bill or to give us evidence on administration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18305,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 604449,
      "EditedText": "We have received some information from Scottish Homes, but we have not received all the information that the committee seems to expect. We will look into the matter and pursue it with Scottish Homes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18305,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 604450,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the housing reporter is continuing the work and that the meetings are being scheduled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18305,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18305,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 604453,
      "EditedText": "Is it possible to timetable, at some point in the near future, an opportunity for the full committee to formalise the role and remit of the reporter on the voluntary sector, so that, after I have spoken to the relevant people, the group can get down to work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 604469,
      "EditedText": "Would you argue that poindings and warrant sales drive poor people into the arms of moneylenders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 604459,
      "EditedText": "Margo, thank you very much indeed. You were extremely candid. Your evidence will be helpful to us in trying to understand exactly what is going on out there. We are intimidated by this atmosphere, too, but your nerves certainly did not stop you getting your message across. Bill, shall we move on before we talk about the issues raised?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 604466,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much indeed. That was a very substantial testimony. I will now open the discussion to members of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 604481,
      "EditedText": "What tends to be poinded are electrical goods—compact disk players, video recorders, televisions and so on. However, nearly all debtors with whom I have dealt have no understanding of what can and cannot be poinded. They worry that their children's computers or beds will be taken and sold, because they retain a folk memory of what warrant sales used to involve. Although some people seek advice, others are paralysed and do not. Unfortunately, the sources of good advice are becoming fewer, as local advice centres up and down Scotland are closing. That means that many people do not have access to the advice that they need. People live with the dreadful fear that things that are really precious to them—things that have been handed down by their parents or grandparents—will be taken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18306,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 604482,
      "EditedText": "I take the point about electrical goods, but is it common for heirloom articles and so on to be involved in poindings? It is not my experience that that is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 604484,
      "EditedText": "May I suggest that there is a distinction between the current state of the law and people's perception of it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 604485,
      "EditedText": "There is a huge distinction, but I do not think that the perception to which you refer can ever be overcome. People who live in communities of the sort that we are discussing will never become legal experts who know automatically what their rights are. The state has an obligation to protect people from unreasonable fears by removing the cause of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kait Laughlin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 604490,
      "EditedText": "The problem is that, regardless of advice that their most basic goods cannot be taken, people are frightened. They simply cannot pay. There is no point giving people all the advice in the world when they are constantly getting letters through the door telling them to pay amounts that they do not have. That does not work. I can prove that from whatever statistics you have been given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 604491,
      "EditedText": "Taking away the pressure of the warrant sale—one of the most threatening things in the letter—would allow people to approach collectors for help and to renegotiate their repayments. The warrant sale is a barrier to speaking to collectors, because people are frightened even to get in touch—collectors will know that they are there and will come and get them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 604493,
      "EditedText": "By and large, credit companies use the threat of a warrant sale but rarely use it. The reason for that is quite simple and is to do with the laws on bankruptcy in Scotland. If a credit company enforces an action through a poinding or a warrant sale, the person can go for personal bankruptcy, but they cannot do so until enforcement action is taken. The threat of a poinding or warrant sale is constantly present, but credit companies do not use them much because they do not want people to go for personal bankruptcy—if they did, the £4,000, £5,000 or £6,000 of debt would suddenly disappear. Credit companies would never see the money because there would be no assets to recover. The availability of credit is another issue. I could speak for hours about people being offered credit on ridiculously easy terms when they are living on pitiful incomes. The credit companies should know better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 604494,
      "EditedText": "We have flagged that up as an issue that the committee needs to examine as part of its work on social inclusion and the anti-poverty strategy. It is an issue that will come back, so you are welcome to submit your views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kait Laughlin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 604495,
      "EditedText": "The credit companies' argument is absolutely immoral. Couched in other language, what they are saying is that unless they continue to have the legal right to frighten people, they will not give them credit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 604496,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for being late and thank Kait Laughlin and Margo Kirkwood in particular for their evidence. My question is for Mary Patterson and Bill Scott. Do you agree that warrant sales seldom recover the amount that is being sought and, in particular, that they are used on people in poverty, often to recover council tax and water rates? The actions are carried out by councils not to recover the cash, but to meet the requirements of central Government. Warrant sales seldom recover the full amount."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 604498,
      "EditedText": "The poverty that people are in is just perpetuated by warrant sales. To stop them going ahead, people get into deeper poverty. It is robbing Peter to pay Paul, but why should Paul always come off best? Why is Paul the sheriff officer? It is sheriff officers that seem to have done very well out of warrant sales, back to the days of the poll tax, when sheriff officer jobs were being advertised. They seem to be the only ones to make anything out of this, and they are doing so off the backs of people in desperate poverty. How those people make their money is just immoral."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 604500,
      "EditedText": "That is one of the things from your evidence, Margo, that I want to pursue. Sheriff officers were phoning you outwith normal working hours and were abusive on the phone."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604502",
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      "ID": 3356
    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 604502,
      "EditedText": "We have been told, in some of the evidence that we have received, that that does not happen. We have been told that, since 1987, there have been considerable improvements, and the problem is just that people do not know about them. If you have evidence to the contrary, we are interested to hear it. Would you describe the phone calls you had as abusive?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604505",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 604505,
      "EditedText": "As I said earlier, I too have personal experience. I worked in the citizens rights office in Edinburgh 10 years ago. The office was closed due to a funding cut, and I was made redundant. At the time, I had been one of those who opposed the poll tax who could afford to pay but who, in solidarity with those who could not afford to pay, had not paid. I put the money aside, in a bank account, ready to pay on the fateful day when the council caught up with me. I was unemployed for three months, and then got a part-time job. I was not in full-time employment again for about six months, and about £2,000 of my personal savings were wiped out to pay my mortgage and the credit that I had received when I was in work. That is what many people do: they take on credit when they are in employment, which they can afford to do, but they cannot afford it if they are out of work. After that, we were harassed for the next three to four years to give that money back. It took us a long time to return to a position where we could afford to pay. Throughout that time, we got phone calls in the evening; people turned up on the doorstep in the evenings, at the weekends and so on. I was in a similar state to Kait and Margo. We had to tell our daughter, \"If a strange man comes to the door, don't just say that mummy and daddy are in.\"No one should have to tell their kids to say that their parents are not at home. People do not want someone else to come in and poke through their personal belongings to see what they can take away to sell—no one should be subjected to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 604508,
      "EditedText": "That might be an interesting approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 604514,
      "EditedText": "As an ex-advice worker, I keep in contact with my old friends. The Citizens Advice Scotland network of bureaux has contracted rather than grown over the past few years. There is no less poverty than there was several years ago, so there is no less need for those bureaux. At the same time, local government welfare rights teams have contracted—they have not grown to meet the extra demand that is not being met by the voluntary sector. The strategic authorities that existed previously could afford a large welfare rights team. Authorities such as Strathclyde and Lothian had large teams. However, Midlothian has a team of three workers. That team cannot act strategically; it cannot even deal with the number of cases that it receives.There must be proper funding for advice on money and debt so that people can receive good advice on their legal rights and can find an organised way to structure their debts and to repay them. Creditors respond well to such a structured response, but if there are fewer people who are able to give that advice, there is no way out. It is also important to get rid of warrant sales, because they really do not help people."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 604511,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask about strategies to assist those who are in debt. I take the point that you made about the other possibilities for collection of debt, but surely a civilised society should find a way to help people who are in debt but who are unable to manage their debts. We know that such assistance would not be a charter for people to avoid paying their bills, and we should make that clear. How could we help people whose backs are against the wall?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 604527,
      "EditedText": "That would be an act of solidarity, John.You have given us substantial evidence that has been extremely helpful in our consideration of the bill. I appreciate how hard it can be to talk about your personal circumstances in a formal setting such as this, and we appreciate your contribution. In a couple of weeks, we will be hearing evidence from representatives of the Law Society of Scotland. Much of the information that you have given us will assist us in framing questions to them. You will be welcome to come and sit in the gallery at that meeting. If you have any other evidence to submit, that will form part of our evidence to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. We will finish formulating a report to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee—the lead committee—which will then deal with the matter and report formally to the Parliament.I am sure that you will keep an eye on this issue—it strikes me that you will watch it closely. The committee will consider many of the issues that you deal with, so I am sure that we will talk to you again."
    },
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    "ID": "C604528",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604529",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 604529,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 604530,
      "EditedText": "Will this committee, or another committee, receive representations from Citizens Advice Scotland? The issue of the national network is important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18306,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 604531,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Citizens Advice Scotland will come to the committee.We will discuss the timetable for a couple of minutes and then talk about how we manage the other evidence and about my meeting with Roseanna Cunningham."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 604533,
      "EditedText": "We will give you as much information as we can get. There is nothing to prevent this committee from considering the evidence that is submitted to the other committees, which members can obtain from the Official Report. You should also have copies of the written evidence that has been submitted by organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 604536,
      "EditedText": "I have agreed on a programme of work with Roseanna Cunningham and Trish Godman that will balance the work of the committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 604539,
      "EditedText": "I have not seen the body of evidence that has been referred to. Has it been sent to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 604540,
      "EditedText": "At 4.45 pm last night."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18306,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 604546,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to the question that was raised about the evidence heard by the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and by other committees. It is important that we should get copies of the Official Report of the evidential part of those committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 604551,
      "EditedText": "I take that point, but this goes back to Cathie's point. This is the first meeting at which I have not been nagged consistently that people did not get sufficient time to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 604552,
      "EditedText": "Keith Raffan is not here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 604555,
      "EditedText": "The danger is that we underload this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 604558,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that you do not have anything to do for the next hour?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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      "ID": 18306,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 604564,
      "EditedText": "We set a timetable, but we have come back to the same old argument. This meeting was called for 10 am and we did not say how long it would go on for. Before we started, we knew that there would not be so many questions about the evidence today. The people who gave evidence answered fully the points that we raised. We have the same argument repeatedly. The official reporters could write the Official Report before we sit down at the committee, because we seem to have the same argument every week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18307,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 604566,
      "EditedText": "This is nothing to do with that argument. Did the Department of Social Security volunteer to come and give evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 604567,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I believe so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 604571,
      "EditedText": "All the evidence that has been received has been submitted voluntarily in response to an open request for evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604572",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 604572,
      "EditedText": "If those people come once, they can come again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ParentID": null
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 604573,
      "EditedText": "We will invite the DSS to give oral evidence. That is subject to confirmation, but we will invite it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 604576,
      "EditedText": "How do we select which organisations we write back to and invite to give oral evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
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      "ID": 18307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 604577,
      "EditedText": "When the three conveners met, we looked at the list and decided from whom it was appropriate for our committees to hear. Some organisations said that they wanted to give written evidence and a much smaller list wanted to give oral evidence. The three conveners took the view that there were some organisations, irrespective of which category of evidence they had indicated that they wanted to give, which we wanted to come to our committees. I cannot remember whether the DSS said that it wanted to give oral or written evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 604578,
      "EditedText": "Will officials or ministers come?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 604585,
      "EditedText": "We will clarify that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18305,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 604447,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask a couple of quickies. Has there been any feedback from Scottish Homes on the comparative cost analysis of private funding? Have we had a reply from the Minister for Communities on the mapping exercise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18305,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 604448,
      "EditedText": "The letter is only a couple of days out. Martin Verity drafted it and I sent it, so the answer is probably no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18305,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18305,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 604452,
      "EditedText": "Fine. We have agreed a meeting of the anti-poverty strategy group—at last. Getting the five people together has been the most difficult aspect of that, but we will meet next week and report to the committee. Is there anything else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 604455,
      "EditedText": "The Justice and Home Affairs Committee is also meeting this morning to consider the bill. That committee might overtake us in the headlines, which, for politicians, is usually distressing, but we will have to learn to live with it. Alex Neil and John McAllion are co-sponsors of the bill, so this committee has an interest in the legislation. I welcome the representatives from Lothian Anti-Poverty Alliance and the Communities Against Poverty Network. When you are giving your introduction, you might explain a wee bit about who is from which organisation and what the organisations are, so that we can begin to consider the issues. I invite you to give a brief introduction, after which the committee will ask you questions. You will have the opportunity to come back to us if there are other issues that you want to raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 604457,
      "EditedText": "Thanks very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kait Laughlin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 604470,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Without doubt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 604471,
      "EditedText": "So they achieve the opposite of what the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Law Commission claim?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margo Kirkwood (Communities Against Poverty Network): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 604458,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. Excuse my nervousness—I am somewhat overawed by the occasion.We became council tenants in 1996. I had a history of depression, which I was learning to manage. We had the unfortunate experience of living next door to an anti-social neighbour. That involved damage to our car, which my husband needed for work, and threats of violence against the family, which caused me to become agoraphobic and depressed. We had to take out an overdraft to cover the costs of car tyres and have been unable to pay it off. At that time, I was unable to cope with anything; I could barely go outdoors. The pressures on my family were intense and we had got into debt through having to pay council tax and rent.The effect of that was that, by the next year, I was not only mentally but physically ill. I was housebound for four months; my husband had to give up his job to look after the family until I had had an operation and recovered. We were on income support for three months of that period. My husband got back his job with the same employer, but on a reduced wage, and there was no way to deal with that. We struggled on. Towards the end of 1998, I began to get better and I became able to deal with things again. The rent arrears became manageable and started to get paid on time. We negotiated, but the matter of the council tax was so terrifying that I just put the letters on the mantelpiece. I did not know what to do—I could not pay the council tax bills. I rang the sheriff officers and they said that I had to pay £25 a week. I pointed out that, if I was paying £25 a week in arrears, I would not be able to pay the current year's council tax. That would mean that I would have to go through the local court system, which would have added 10 per cent. The sheriff officers told me that they could charge us £30 a week. I accepted £25 because it was better than £30. We managed to keep up those payments for a while, until the budget. My husband is a truck driver, and the tax on diesel affected a lot of transport companies, his in particular—it lost a contract that was no longer viable because of the increased levy. He used to get an overnight allowance for sleeping in the truck, to be spent on food and so on, but that stopped. It could come to anything between £45 and £90 a week, depending on how many nights he was away. After a week's notice from the increase in the levy, that money was gone. At that point, I got back in touch with the sheriff officers, because we were no longer in a position to pay the £25. They were not interested. I again pointed out that I could not pay the arrears and the current council tax charges. I asked whether there was a better solution.I phoned Glasgow City Council's council tax department, and said the same thing. No dice—it was not interested at all. I phoned the people at Money Advice Scotland, who told me that the sheriff officers were not open to sympathetic negotiation, for want of a better expression; I was told to fill out an income-outgoing form, so that they could judge how much we could afford to pay. I did that, and they said that we could afford £15. That was still more than we could afford to pay for that year's council tax. Another anti-social neighbour moved in, this time upstairs. The whole life of our family was disrupted, and we had four weeks with no sleep. Everything went out the window at that point: all I could do was campaign and pressure the council to end that inappropriate let. My family and I managed to achieve that within four weeks, but we were like zombies by then. A week later, I failed the assisted rent arrears criteria, and was told that I had to pay £1,000 for the arrears. We borrowed money to do that. The same tactics were used: I was told that a full settlement would be required to avoid eviction, but when I phoned the council I was told that it would accept three months' rent and we reached agreement. However, I had to borrow the money to pay that to avoid becoming homeless.The next thing was the council tax again. I was phoned at 12.45 on a Saturday afternoon. At that point, I was barely managing to hold myself together. As women in this room will know—and it is probably the case in most households—it is the women who deal with the bills and such matters. All that fell to me, and I did not know what to do about it. I did not have the money to pay. The woman said to me, \"Do you realise, Mrs Kirkwood, that we can sell your furniture?\" I said, \"Yes, but if you know that, why is there nothing that you can do to help?\" It was difficult to cope with. I got on to the people at Money Advice Scotland. They took my budget statements and took over dealing with the sheriff officers, because I cannot deal with them. I lose all sense. I cannot even speak to them. Last Monday night, at half-past 7, I got another phone call from the sheriff officer. It was basically abusive. I pointed out that she was calling outwith office hours and asked her to do me the courtesy of phoning between 9 and 5 o'clock. I can deal with things then. After 5 o'clock I can say to myself, \"Right. That's it until 9 o'clock tomorrow.\" That helps me to cope with the depression and the anxiety. It makes the situation manageable. The woman on the phone had been really quite offensive. I asked her why she was phoning me, as I had passed the case over to someone at Money Advice Scotland precisely because I could not cope with the harassment and phone calls late in the evening. She said that unless I made a substantial settlement pretty quickly, I would be liable for the whole amount up to next May—the council is now trying to get what is not even due. The whole lot is going to be lumped together. It comes to more than £1,000. I do not know the exact figure. It will not stay in my head. I feel so powerless. The situation is affecting the family. My husband and I argue, we do not go out, we have not had a holiday for 15 years and we buy clothes from the charity shop. My husband and I smoke, but I feel incredibly guilty about it. I argue with my husband over the price of a packet of cigarettes. The situation is causing a lot of tension. I do not know what to do. The thought of all my furniture being taken is terrifying. It is all that we have left, although there is not much of it and it is all second hand. My son says, \"Mum, will they come and take my computer?\" I paid the computer up on the catalogue. We do not spend a lot of money. We economise as best we can. A big expense such as a birthday or Christmas present goes on the catalogue, because then I have a year to pay, but buying a pair of shoes is a problem. When I filled out my budget for the sheriff officers, the problem was clear. My husband earns £198.02 a week. If we were to pay all the bills, as we should, our outgoings would be £212. It is impossible. That is what gets me about warrant sales. I have tried. I have phoned the sheriff officers. I have told them the situation that I am in. I have told them that I cannot pay the amount that they ask. I know that I owe them the money—I am not trying to deny that—but surely it is better to come to an arrangement whereby I can pay a regular amount on which I will not fall behind. There is no sense in being told to pay £30 a week if you can afford to pay it only for so long, because to be able to afford it you have to not pay other bills. The fear that the situation instils in me is terrible. I have worked very hard to overcome depression and I have succeeded in that to a great extent. My husband cannot work any more hours. His doctor is telling him to take a rest, but how can he when we are under so much pressure? I want to offer my support to the bill and to thank the committee for giving me the chance to say what I wanted to say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 604460,
      "EditedText": "We have one more personal testimony from Kait Laughlin, who is representing not only herself but her mother. Kait is from Partick in Glasgow and she is active in the West Glasgow Against Poverty group and in advocacy for people with learning difficulties, through a citizens advocacy project. She is a member of her local parents association and children's group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kait Laughlin (Communities Against Poverty Network): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 604461,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for being late. I missed the train that I should have got from Glasgow because I was up half the night crying with my mother who started talking about her experiences of warrant sales and could not stop. If I am bleary, weary and start greeting, bear with me.My mother is 78 years old next week and has lived with the fear of warrant sales all her life. She still jumps when letters come through the door. When I asked her whether she would come through to speak to the committee, I thought that she might be intimidated, but she was not. She said that she was too ashamed to come to talk about this subject—that is the effect that it has on people. She wrote a statement for me, which I will read out—I wrote out part of it, but these are her words. I will probably greet, but I am not embarrassed about that if you are not. My mother said:\"I've never forgotten the day the Sheriff came to poind my furniture for a Warrant Sale. I was on Social Security and was paying other debts. I was robbing Peter to pay Paul. It's easy to get in a rut when you have no income coming in. It was not all my fault. My husband was supposed to be paying things. He took to do with all the money. I had to go and get things to pay up because I had to get toys for the children's Christmas and buy bedclothes out of a warehouse, you see there were not any charity shops in those days. I am 78 years old, so you'll know the time I've lived in.I cried all night when I knew the next day I would have a Warrant Sale.\"That is what we were talking about last night. She went on to say:\"I had no one to turn to except the money lender and that was me back in debt. I still get the thoughts yet of that Warrant Sale, as that time the Sheriff came I felt that it was the end of the road for me. I prayed to god and I thought of my family. It was so shameful. I have never forgotten it—still yet. The furniture I had would not even have paid the Sheriff. I never forget—they put your name in the newspaper in those days. It was called the Citizen. I used to hate that paper as all the Warrant Sales were in it for every body to know your name. You could not speak to anybody about it because it was so degrading.I'm lucky—I got the loan of the money at the last lap before the Sheriff came but it is still in my mind today. I believe if I had not prayed to god for guidance, I think I would have ended my life that night.\"My mum started talking about somebody she knew, who lived in Great Western Road in Glasgow, who killed themselves because of the debt of warrant sales. I am sure that they were not the only one.\"It is awful to have a Warrant Sale when you could not help it. It's not that you don't want to pay. It's not your fault when you're getting demands from the warehouse and from everybody else—you're trying to pay but you have to feed your family and things get on top of you. When you have no one to turn to it's a nightmare. So they need to stop Warrant Sales. It's the last straw—drop the terrible way of taking your possessions—it's a terrible shame. It's stuck in my mind all those years and I cry when I hear someone is having a warrant sale. So bless you for stopping them.\"She is being optimistic there. I did not have time to write this out—this is her bit:\"I know they get a decree when you miss your payments weekly. But when you are in debt and trying to pay other debts that's when it's happening as you're getting demands from other debts. You're at your wits end trying to pay each of them because you do not know where to turn as you could not tell anyone so the only way was to go to the moneylender then the nightmare comes back again to try and pay them. It's easy to get in a rut but not so easy to get out of it. That's been my life and I don't want you to forget it.\"That was her experience as an adult. My experience was of a child living through that. Even before you can speak, you know when your parents are frightened, you know when you are told to shush and there is a knock at the door and you do not know who it is. You know when you are sitting still because you are afraid that somebody is going to knock on the door and that it could be the sheriff any minute. We lived through that all my life, and there are still children who are living like that.My mum mentioned moneylenders a couple of times. I feel that poindings and warrant sales are a form of legalised loan sharking. I gather that the people who argue that the bill should not go through are saying that poindings and warrant sales work. They work because they terrify people; they terrify, intimidate, bully and harass people because they are poor. That is what loan sharks do—they intimidate and harass people and make an example of one or two of them. That is what happens with warrant sales—one or two people have warrant sales and the threat is enough to terrify everybody.I have also experienced this as an adult. I left school at 15 and went to university as a mature student. Before I went to university, I had been working for years, during which time I had taken on some debts. While I was at university, I had no money. I ended up with a poinding on my house. I still have nightmares about that—I am not just saying that for effect. The threat of warrant sales still frightens me, as I grew up with it and experienced it as an adult. I am a single parent with two young children and, obviously, cannot pay my debts, so the threat is still hanging over my head. Three generations have been affected by this. As a matter of principle, I do not tell my children to shush when somebody is at the door, but I am still frightened in case it is the sheriff. I do not think that the system works. I know what has happened to me. I have worked advising people on their debts, but I cannot cope with my own debts as I am so frightened—it is an emotional overload. The fear paralyses you; you do not sort out the problem sooner, because you are so frightened by all the threatening letters.Bill Scott has suggested the analogy of a rabbit frozen in the headlights. I can advise other people what to do in such circumstances, but I cannot cope when I receive those letters and my emotions are involved. People would deal with their debts earlier if they were not so terrified. Statistics are being bandied about to show that people settle their debts after the threat of a poinding. Has anybody followed up cases six months or a year later, when people are paying money they cannot afford towards the first debt but have other debts, so the same situation happens time and again? I bet that the people who want this bill to fall do not tell you that.I have a wee statement to make—if the committee will bear with me. Here is a chance to send out a very clear message to people living in poverty. This is something practical and measurable that members can do. You can say that just because people are poor does not mean that it is okay to intimidate and humiliate them. It is not all right to harass and threaten them. When I went to university as a mature student, one of the first books that I encountered was called \"Cycles of Disadvantage\". I am asking you to break the cycle of disadvantage, so that no more children grow up frightened and no more mammies sit at home frightened to open the door."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 604463,
      "EditedText": "I want to give Mary Patterson a chance to speak briefly. Mary works for the Communities Against Poverty Network, but before that she worked in local government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Patterson (Communities Against Poverty Network): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 604464,
      "EditedText": "I will concentrate on my work in local government. I was a council tax collector—for my sins. I had to speak to people who had difficulties in paying the council tax. They came to me because I had to follow the Government procedures of sending out notices to tell people that they had to come in and make arrangements to pay. Those people were experiencing many different forms of poverty. They were obviously trying to get out of poverty and to make arrangements to pay. The system demands that, unless council tax is collected in the year for which it is payable, the matter is passed to the sheriff officer. If people fall behind and do not make payments, it is a case of two strikes and they are out: people no longer have the right to pay in instalments and must pay in full.Once a summary warrant is raised, instead of supporting people in poverty—maybe by giving them a wee bit longer to pay—we punish the poorest people by whacking another 10 per cent on to their bills. When I used to put names up on the computer screen, I might find that people had fallen so far behind that they were paying debts from 1993—they were trying to clear each year's debts and their cases were being dealt with through the sheriff officer. Once matters have been passed to the sheriff officer, council tax collectors cannot give support, other than to suggest that people go to Money Advice Scotland. If people are in debt for one thing, we can be sure that they are in debt for something else.People on income support told me that they wanted to pay their council tax through income tax. That can happen, but only after a warrant has been raised against them. There is no opportunity for people on very low incomes, who are desperately trying to clear their debts, to make such arrangements to pay before the stage at which 10 per cent is added on.Nobody is saying that debts should be ignored. However, debt collection should not be punitive; it should be supportive. It should consider people's individual problems so that better arrangements can be made."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kait Laughlin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 604468,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is absolutely true. I gave you my experience of what my mum has had to do. The idea that people who are living on income support can suddenly find the money to pay debts seems to suggest that people are withholding the money until they are threatened with a poinding. What is happening in practice is that people are being forced to pay sums of money that they cannot afford and are doing without food and fuel. They are doing without the basic necessities of life because they are bullied into paying, say, £15 a week—which is impossible for someone on income support. Someone who is living off £51 a week cannot pay £15 a week, but that is what is happening. People are basically starving to pay their debts."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
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      "EditedText": "There is an argument that says that we should just leave poindings and warrant sales until there is a proper review of all debt recovery procedures. I noticed in your evidence that you specifically support this bill and feel that it should be pursued at the moment. I see that that is the view of all of the witnesses this morning."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C604474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
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    "Time": {
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kait Laughlin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 604474,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
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      "EditedText": "I would like to emphasise that point, John. About a month ago in Edinburgh, there was a meeting of about 30 representatives of the Communities Against Poverty Network from all parts of Scotland. They agreed unanimously that this bill should be supported. I have not yet spoken to one person who lives in poverty and who does not want the end of poindings and warrant sales."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 604476,
      "EditedText": "I would like to thank you all for giving evidence—it was very moving and very effective."
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  {
    "ID": "C604478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
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      "EditedText": "There are other ways, besides poindings, of recovering debt. For example, people are already having their wages arrested. In the council for which I worked, the sheriff officer arrested wages on Christmas eve because of non-payment of council tax. I was absolutely gobsmacked that anyone would do that; apparently, the reason was that people get two weeks' money at Christmas because everything closes. Such an action does not take into account the difficulties that people in poverty have at Christmas, with banks closing early and so on.Other quite punitive measures such as arrestment of wages and bank accounts can be used to recover debts. Taking away the threat of warrant sales might allow people to make better arrangements to pay off their debts and to have more confidence about negotiating such payments with sheriff officers or other agencies. Most people want to do that, because those problems have a serious effect on other aspects of their lives."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C604479",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 604479,
      "EditedText": "As a former welfare rights worker, I know that people want to pay what they can to get rid of their debts. Councils use benefit recovery. However, people can have multiple debts. For example, although successive years of council tax debt can be taken out of benefit, community charge debts are treated separately, which means that even though benefit recovery is in place, sheriff officers can still threaten to carry out poindings and warrant sales. Even though people are paying from their benefit what the state believes is the maximum they can afford, the state is also saying, \"You have to pay more towards this other debt and you have to pay us directly.\" People are already paying the £10 or £15 a week that they can afford and, as a result, end up going to moneylenders. They make extortionate credit agreements that they do not understand, which means that they end up repaying the debt at an annual interest rate of 35 per cent.I will emphasise Mary's comments. Immediately after Christmas, we see the debris left behind by people trying to live on inadequate incomes and to meet all their responsibilities. They just cannot do it. The state should not be holding this threat over their heads when they are already paying through their benefit the maximum the state believes they can pay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 604483,
      "EditedText": "Parts of a three-piece suite, for example, might be taken. It depends on whether the sheriff officer considers that an article is of essential use in the household. If there are two people in the house, they might be allowed to keep the two armchairs but the settee will be taken away. Things that people regard as necessary around the house can still be taken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kait Laughlin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 604486,
      "EditedText": "We should not forget that the present legislation allows sheriff officers to kick people's doors in, humiliate them and value the things that are important to them at a pittance. That happened to me when I was a student at university. I was in tears, frightened to open the door, when the sheriff officer shouted through the letterbox, \"We know you're in, we know you're in. If you don't let us in, we'll come back and kick the door in.\" I let them in and sat by while two men walked through the house, sneering at my possessions and placing derisory prices on things that I valued. That is not just perception—it is the reality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18306,
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margo Kirkwood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 604503,
      "EditedText": "I was quite taken aback. I had done what I could; I was waiting to hear back from Money Advice Scotland and I was frustrated. It was right before \"Coronation Street\" as well—that is a bad time for me, and I was wondering what the lady was doing phoning me again at a time like that. I had complained about them phoning me at a lunchtime on a Saturday. I politely asked her to do me the courtesy of phoning me during office hours, which is when I deal with my business. I asked her why she was phoning me at all when I had already passed the matter over to the money advice people. The tone of her remarks was to say, \"Well, look, Mrs Kirkwood, you know that you've not stuck with this outwith this agreement.\" I replied, \"No, I didn't agree to pay you that sum; I told you I couldn't afford to pay you that. I'm not failing on the agreement.\" She said, \"That's just what you say.\" I said, \"I can't afford to pay it.\" It went from there to the point where she was shouting me down over the phone, and I hung up, shaking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margo Kirkwood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 604507,
      "EditedText": "In the last phone call on the Monday evening, I asked the girl why she was phoning me at that time of night. She said that they worked until half past eight, that the numbers come up on a computerised system and that it is an automatic process. I am sure that the committee would be able to clarify that process with the sheriff officers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
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      "ID": 18306,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 604515,
      "EditedText": "I take your point. I am not trying to suggest otherwise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 604516,
      "EditedText": "Alex Neil made a good point about the lever being used as an excuse. From the moving evidence that Margo Kirkwood and Kait gave this morning, and from the contact that I have had with constituents, I believe that most of the people who live with the threat of warrant sales are trying to repay their debts.You have said that dealing with debt is the most urgent and pressing matter. How many of the people who face warrant sales and who come to you for help are genuinely paying their debts? It is my perception that people are attempting to pay off the debt in small amounts, and that warrant sales are not helping. Is that your perception? Are the people who come to citizens advice offices attempting to pay off that debt?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 604520,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we need to consider legislation. If people want to pay their debts through their benefits, they should be able to do so. I am talking about a voluntary arrangement, because people have their own ways of managing their budgets.Some people were falling behind in their council tax payments because the payments that they made were not high enough to meet the debt.After the second reminder to bring the payments up to date, one loses the right to pay by instalments, and 10 per cent is whacked on to the debt right away. The only advice that we could give to people was to pay as much as they could, so that less would be added to the bill in the end. If we could advise people to pay this year's council tax and a bit of their arrears, they would be able to clear this year's payments and to clear their arrears a bit at a time. As it is, the whole debt is dealt with by a sheriff officer and a debtor must pay the earliest year's arrears first. We think of payments being made on the never-never in connection with credit companies, but that is payment on the never-never of a Government tax by people in poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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      "ID": 18306,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 604522,
      "EditedText": "Bill Scott mentioned the fact that local authorities have no choice but to use every form of debt recovery. What do you think of the stand taken by West Dunbartonshire Council, which said publicly that it would not use poindings and warrant sales?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 604525,
      "EditedText": "I would like that to happen. However, councils will be aware that the auditors will point out that they are not using all the available methods, as they are obliged to do, and are therefore not discharging their legal responsibilities. As I understand it, the councils themselves could be surcharged for failing to act on that basis.I support West Dunbartonshire Council and I would like other councils to take that stance. However, councillors, like other politicians, have ambitions, and they do not want to jeopardise their future political careers by being debarred from office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 604532,
      "EditedText": "I have seen the list of the three committees that are taking evidence. The sheriff officers are not coming to this committee, but I have questions for them. Presumably, I should go to the meetings of the other committees as a member of the Scottish Parliament to ensure that the questions that I want to be asked are asked. Can we discuss evidence that is given to other committees? Can we use it to shape our view of evidence that we receive? I have a list of who is going to what committee, but I do not have dates, so I do not have an idea of the chronology. Can we have dates?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 604534,
      "EditedText": "I have that information. I have not looked through it, but I do not think that it mentions dates. John McAllion has not seen the list showing the division of oral evidence among the three committees—I have copied it from an e-mail message dated 11 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 604537,
      "EditedText": "The balance is fair, but we might want to discuss what is said at the meetings of other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 604548,
      "EditedText": "That is all right, as long as we get the Official Report before we are at the report stage."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 604553,
      "EditedText": "Yes, Keith is not here—that could be why.We should not overload ourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 604554,
      "EditedText": "The evidence this morning was a different sort of evidence. It was about experiences rather than about statistics and financial details of the kind that we got from Scottish Homes. I think that it will take longer with Citizens Advice Scotland, the Law Society and others, when members will put pointed questions to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 604557,
      "EditedText": "Seriously, there is a time management issue. We have set aside the whole morning and we have a wasted hour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 604559,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that and neither am I trying to repeat the argument that we had three or four weeks ago. The point that I made then was that the number of sessions that we had set aside was over the top in relation to the number of people likely to want to give us oral evidence and the time that that would take.John McAllion is right. We should be able to take the other three organisations allocated to this committee in the two meetings between now and Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 604560,
      "EditedText": "I remind the committee that we decided categorically at a previous meeting that we should stop revisiting decisions that we had already made. We have agreed to stick to the timetable. Consistent submissions are made to me about the amount of work that the committee is undertaking and about people's trouble in getting through the work of the committee. If we can manage the time appropriately and hear evidence, we will get through the work, but we cannot keep changing the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 604561,
      "EditedText": "We are not proposing a change. Between now and Christmas we have two further full mornings on warrant sales and three organisations to see. As John McAllion said, if we can, we should arrange to hear the evidence from those three organisations in those two sessions.This morning, the Justice and Home Affairs Committee met at 9.30 am and will go on until 1 o'clock. It is dealing with three bills and evidence from a substantial number of organisations. From what I hear from the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, it is dealing with those matters thoroughly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 604563,
      "EditedText": "Let us not get into that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 18307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 604568,
      "EditedText": "That is important for housing. We should remember that there have been indications off the record that ministers from the DSS are not accountable to this Parliament and will not give evidence here. It is interesting that the DSS are volunteering to give evidence on this issue. That sets a precedent and I am sure that we can demand that it give evidence on housing benefit reform."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 604570,
      "EditedText": "A precedent has been established—the DSS will come and give evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 604575,
      "EditedText": "I cannot remember—some organisations said that they wanted to give oral evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 604580,
      "EditedText": "Will they be speaking on behalf of their ministers or on their own behalf?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 18307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 604582,
      "EditedText": "They are down, on one of the lists that I have seen, as being opposed to the bill. That is a political decision. If they are giving evidence to oppose the bill, we should talk to ministers because that is a political matter. We cannot have officials from the DSS coming to oppose a bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 604586,
      "EditedText": "If ministers come, we must ask the secretary of state."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 18307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 604587,
      "EditedText": "The Executive is giving evidence to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee that will be relevant to this committee as well.Are there any other points about the timetable?Thank you for your attendance. Given the work that we put into this committee, I do not think that there is any issue about us finishing a little early."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 604588,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:31."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2819669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 604550,
      "EditedText": "We are sitting here at 11.25 am; there would have been time to hear evidence from someone else. Consider the work load of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which is meeting now. It is taking evidence on three bills as well as discussing a European document. Perhaps we could get more value out of the time that we have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3356
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18307,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 604569,
      "EditedText": "The Executive paper recommended a list of organisations that would be suitable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 11210,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11210,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 419319,
      "EditedText": "The first item on our agenda is a European document that has been referred to us from the European Committee. European document 291 is a draft council decision on the integration of refugees. I assume that it was referred to us because, technically speaking, this committee has responsibility for home affairs. However, you will see from the clerk's helpful note that it is opportune that members of the Health and Community Care Committee are here today, because the document appears to have more to do with health than with home affairs.In any event, you will all have read the note, and will realise that the document deals with a reserved matter. As I said, the involvement of Scottish organisations seems to be limited to health matters. From the point of view of this committee, therefore, it may be appropriate simply to note this report. The convener of the Health and Community Care Committee, who is with us today, may want to ask the European Committee why it has not been referred to her as well.Do members agree simply to note the report today?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rab Hide (British Medical Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 419321,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I am Rab Hide, the vice-chairman of the Scottish council of the British Medical Association. With me are colleagues from south of the border and from Ireland, who will now introduce themselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 419327,
      "EditedText": "Our view follows the consequence of the Tony Bland judgment. We believe that artificial nutrition and hydration are part of medical treatment. We used that as a guiding principle in the framework that we produced earlier this year for the withholding of medical treatment.Reading the deliberations that you have had before, we sense a slight incompatibility in the evidence as it relates to nutrition and hydration. We draw a distinction between artificial nutrition and hydration as part of medical treatment and the giving of oral nutrition and hydration, which we see as part of basic medical care and which we think should never be withdrawn.We define as artificial nutrition and hydration any method of giving nutrition and hydration that bypasses the swallowing reflex; in other words, any mechanical method. In providing the means to give artificial nutrition and hydration, one is undertaking medical intervention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 419328,
      "EditedText": "Do you accept the concerns of some of our previous witnesses that the inclusion of nutrition and hydration without a clear definition could lead to a withdrawal of that treatment and the hastening of death?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 419333,
      "EditedText": "Your document suggests that, even before the bill is passed, the situation in Scotland is satisfactory. The doctor can offer or withdraw treatment, depending on his or her interpretation of the situation. Perhaps that suggests that you feel that this bill and these sections are unnecessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 419335,
      "EditedText": "Will the bill allow that flexibility to continue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 419338,
      "EditedText": "The bill admirably addresses the general concept of providing circumstances in which a doctor can initiate treatment for the patient's benefit. However, although the bill does not specifically address the issue of the withdrawal or withholding of treatment, doctors recognise that decisions about treatment might also include decisions that treatment should not be initiated or should be withdrawn. Our guidance about the framework in which such decisions are made is both robust and flexible enough not to require additional comment in the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 419345,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify some points on the subject of nutrition and hydration? You said that the law as it stands allows the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration without petition to the courts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 419348,
      "EditedText": "Before I ask Bill O'Neill to respond, I should say that, if that is the interpretation, the British Medical Association in Scotland would have some concerns. The ideal would be to achieve a truly united response from carers, relatives and the patient, rather than to have to go through the trauma of taking cases to the Court of Session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 419353,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we agree that that section could be interpreted in that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 419359,
      "EditedText": "Whether the bill is perfect is debatable, but it is pragmatic and realistic. When we examined the withdrawal and withholding of all forms of treatment—including artificial nutrition and hydration—we realised that there was a vast range of conditions with a degree of incapacity and a degree of what you might call poor quality of life, in which there is no prospect of recovery and in which patients are incapacitated and cannot express their wishes. To draft legislation to cover the different clinical conditions that produce that state of incapacity would be extremely difficult. Moreover, it would probably tie the hands not just of the doctors but of the families and patients. That would not be in patients' interests.I repeat our concern over the ability of a proxy to refuse all forms of treatment, including artificial nutrition and hydration, on behalf of an incapacitated patient without having to say why. Although we are happy that a doctor has recourse to the courts if there is a conflict over treatment, we would like legislation to reflect the need for the proxy to give good evidence to the doctor that the decision that they are making on the patient's behalf reflects the wishes expressed by the patient when they were competent. Such a requirement is missing from section 47."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 419360,
      "EditedText": "Dr Wilks, it would help us if you could give us a couple of examples of the kind of evidence that you think should be provided to substantiate a welfare attorney's decision that treatment should not be given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C419364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 419364,
      "EditedText": "I have two points, the first of which concerns the proxy. Do you feel that the proxy has a sufficient liability in terms of his or her duty of care? Section 73 limits the liability of guardians, continuing attorneys and welfare attorneys, stating that\"for any breach of any duty of care or fiduciary duty\"they would simply have to have\"acted reasonably and in good faith\". Am I right in saying that you think that section 47 should contain an additional provision requiring the proxy to demonstrate that he or she is either acting on the wishes of the patient or is carrying out some action that is beneficial to the patient after obtaining a second opinion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 419374,
      "EditedText": "I am often in that situation. It is important that the bill clearly covers that situation in the same way as the principle of necessity in England does. Otherwise, as we have heard, various interpretations will be made; in an acute, life-threatening situation, it must be possible for immediate treatment to be given even if guardians, proxies or relatives are unavailable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 419376,
      "EditedText": "I have debated in several European forums the definition of a medical act; the concept is extremely difficult to define. I will say no more, as I do not want to detain the committee longer than necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr O'Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 419379,
      "EditedText": "There are numerous examples of treatments having moved on since the person made the advance directive. That may be over a period of three or five years, rather than 10, 20 or more years. For that reason we would not want advance directives to be enshrined in legislation. We must be able to offer an interpretation that the person had made the advance directive at a particular point in time, with a particular understanding and with access to particular treatments, which, as you say, may have changed with time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 419392,
      "EditedText": "Are you concerned by the fact that there is no recognition of partial incapacity or assisted decision making in the bill? The Millan committee aims to redefine what is set out under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. Are you concerned that we may be left with an all-or-nothing situation if the new definitions do not take account of partial incapacity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 419394,
      "EditedText": "There is a slight problem with the bill's failure to clarify the concept of short-term incapacity. Short-term incapacity is very common; it can be seen in accident and emergency departments throughout the country every Saturday night. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 419397,
      "EditedText": "Except that it would be perverse if the person making a decision in conflict with that of the medical adviser was working at a lower level of decision making."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 419400,
      "EditedText": "Do you see trials using placebos being excluded or included by this bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C419402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 419402,
      "EditedText": "Earlier, when talking about section 44(2)(b), you mentioned advance directives. At present, how few have those advance directives? Tragically, a large number of young people are brought in with severe head injuries. Young people, quite properly, do not think about the possibility of their dying. Roughly how long does it take someone to die after the withdrawal of artificial hydration and nutrition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 419403,
      "EditedText": "The second question is impossible to answer. It depends on other conditions that the person might have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C419404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 419404,
      "EditedText": "Many of the submissions we have had—and most of the submissions have been about section 44(2)(b)—have mentioned that it might take up to a fortnight for someone to die. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rea Johnston (Royal College of Nursing): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 419412,
      "EditedText": "I am Rea Johnston. I am a member of the RCN and a teacher of nurses at Napier University."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 419413,
      "EditedText": "I will make a brief statement. The RCN supports the overall purpose of the bill and recognises that this is an extremely difficult area that presents legal, clinical and ethical problems to all those involved. We are grateful for this opportunity to explain to the committee the distinctive role that nurses can and should play in caring for those who are incapacitated.There is a perception that an instruction that is given by a doctor absolves nurses of any responsibility. That is not the case. We suggest that the phrase \"medical treatment\" be replaced by the phrase \"clinical treatment\". \"Clinical treatment\" more accurately reflects the input of each member of a multidisciplinary team. There is a basic standard of nursing care that all patients, regardless of their condition, are entitled to. We oppose any measures that would make it possible for a patient to be denied that level of care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 419415,
      "EditedText": "I was going to raise those two points with you. Can you expand on your call to change \"medical treatment\" to \"clinical treatment\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 419416,
      "EditedText": "\"Medical treatment\" is an outdated concept. There are many professionals other than doctors who are directly involved in assessment of and delivery of care. The use of the term \"clinical treatment\" would recognise that. Nurses have a distinctive role to play in assessing and delivering care to every patient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 419417,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the basic level of care that every patient should receive, regardless of their condition. Your submission indicates that there is concern about the possibility of basic nursing care being withheld. What would you like to see being tightened up to ensure that that cannot happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 419418,
      "EditedText": "There is concern that continued use of the term \"medical treatment\" will result in nursing care being included in that definition. If a decision was made to withdraw medical care from a patient, nursing care might also be withdrawn. As far as we are concerned, every patient has the right to receive basic nursing care regardless of their condition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 419420,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. At all times every nurse works to the code of conduct that is laid down by the statutory body, the United Kingdom Central Council for Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting. Nurses must at all times work for patients' interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 419421,
      "EditedText": "If the bill stands as it is, is it possible that nurses who were instructed not to carry out that basic nursing care would have to decide between their code of professional conduct and the provisions as laid down in the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 419426,
      "EditedText": "Our solicitors in Scotland, Anderson Strathern, have brought to our attention that, at the time of the Law hospital case, a number of patients were in a persistent vegetative state similar to that of Janet Johnston. We are concerned about what action has been taken with those patients following that court decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 419434,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 419436,
      "EditedText": "In paragraph 8.1 of the RCN submission, you say that death should be \"peaceful and dignified\". Obviously that is in connection with PVS patients. Do you think that you can give people a peaceful and dignified death if artificial means of nutrition and hydration are withdrawn?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rea Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 419439,
      "EditedText": "Nurses are trained to assess patients for nursing interventions and to follow out medical prescriptions. However, they are also responsible for assessing whether to go ahead with medical prescription if a patient's condition calls that into question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 419440,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that you refer back to the doctor daily?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 419443,
      "EditedText": "Steps should be taken to ensure that welfare attorneys take sound advice from the professionals who are directly involved in the delivery of care at that time—perhaps from two people rather than one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 419445,
      "EditedText": "It is legally binding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 419453,
      "EditedText": "In your written submission you identify with the position of the BMA on the issue of evidence for not applying treatment. Do you have a view about what you would expect to see as evidence in support of such an instruction?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 419455,
      "EditedText": "That was not quite the point. You make a specific statement in your submission: \"With the right to withhold consent, the welfare attorney or person authorised to intervene has a power which is not sufficiently counterbalanced.\" You are concerned that the bill sets out no criteria for the parties or the court to apply when resolving differences. What, in your view, would make things more balanced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C419457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 419457,
      "EditedText": "I would like an answer to my second question, as to why you want \"medical treatment\" replaced with \"clinical treatment\". This next question follows on from Roseanna's point. In paragraph 5.2 of your submission, you say that \"a welfare attorney who exercises his or her right to withhold consent to medical treatment would also have the ability to differentiate between different types of treatment.\"Are you saying that the welfare attorney would perhaps not be sufficiently knowledgeable on medical treatment to make decisions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rea Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 419459,
      "EditedText": "We thought that the word \"clinical\" could be used in section 44 of the bill, so that, as we have stated before, no nursing care is omitted by default. The nurse's accountability would be taken into consideration. Section 47 talks about the welfare attorney. That person would be able to refuse consent for medical treatment. \"Clinical\" could be used to designate overall care, but if somebody wants to intervene and stop treatment, they would be discontinuing medical treatment, not omitting by default some basic care necessary for patient dignity and a reasonable death."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C419462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 419462,
      "EditedText": "So you feel that clinical judgment should overrule any decisions that an attorney might wish to make?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 419463,
      "EditedText": "No. We are saying not that attorneys' decisions should be overruled, but that clinical judgment should be considered if the attorney does not have the expertise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 419477,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, I am not sure. How would that work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 419480,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. That concludes the evidence from the Royal College of Nursing. As a result of some of its evidence, I wonder whether I could ask someone from the British Medical Association to come back in on the issue of nurses' involvement in the decision-making process. The RCN made the point that nurses should perhaps, when decisions are being made on who is ultimately responsible, be given a more explicit role. I saw Dr Wilks nodding his head at one point, so I thought that it would useful to get the BMA's view on record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 419481,
      "EditedText": "There have been some unfortunate disagreements that have gone as far as either the General Medical Council or the courts. Part of the background to the disagreements has often included some confusion between doctors and nurses in the health care team. We have made it absolutely explicit that the process leading to, and the decision to withdraw or withhold, treatment, should be consensual among doctors, nurses and the family. We also understand clearly that when a decision has been made to withdraw or withhold treatment of any type, it is primarily the nurses who have to pick up the consequences of that decision for short-term or long-term nursing.Once a decision has been made to withdraw or withhold artificial nutrition and hydration and the death of the patient is foreseen, it is important to note that the focus of the care changes from maintaining the patient in their condition to managing, as compassionately as possible, the process of dying. That puts different responsibilities on the nurses which are unique to their profession and do not necessarily involve the doctors to any great degree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 419483,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We would be unhappy with a one-person decision. They tend to be wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 419484,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming back before the committee. Our next witness is Professor Sheila McLean from the University of Glasgow. I see her sitting at the end of the row, which may not be the best place for her to sit while giving evidence. Perhaps she could move forward.Thank you for coming, Professor McLean. You have been listening with interest to the evidence that we have heard so far. I hope that you have also had an opportunity to examine some of the evidence that has already been submitted to us in respect of the bill. From that, you will know which aspects of the bill have given witnesses and members of the committee cause for concern. We want to hear from you because it seemed appropriate that, in your capacity as a professor of ethics, you should be given an opportunity to comment on some of the difficult subjects that are being discussed. Perhaps you would like to take two minutes to make a short statement, before we go to questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 419490,
      "EditedText": "Apart from it being an onerous duty to take on the power of attorney, particularly if we introduced an additional duty of care, are you saying that there are legal consequences for that person? Could it mean they would be open to litigation by other parties who felt that they had made a negligent decision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 419491,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure on what basis you could challenge them because a proxy decision maker could always say that they had acted in good faith. All the evidence is that proxy decision makers get it wrong more often than they get it right, but that they do so in good faith. To give a duty of care to an individual would make significant inroads into an established legal process for little gain. Those who believe that a duty of care is important might decide that they would rather not act in that capacity. Equally, there may be those who think that it does not matter because all they have to do is say that they acted in good faith—how would you prove that they had not? That is especially difficult since they are not in a professional role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 419492,
      "EditedText": "Where should a final decision about medical treatment lie: with the medical professionals or with the proxy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 419495,
      "EditedText": "I have not been able to consider the rest of the bill in much depth. I had a look at some of the stuff on guardianship and wardship. It seemed to me—and I am not an expert in this area, so I am reluctant to say anything—that the bill tackled fairly head-on the problems that the Scottish Law Commission, among others, identified. Those problems concerned the lack of accessibility to certain kinds of protection, through either cost or time delay. In the little that I saw—and speaking as a non-expert—the bill seemed to me to deal with those fairly clearly and well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 419502,
      "EditedText": "I have two questions. You pointed out to Pauline McNeill the difference, in some situations, between doing something and doing nothing—if one assaults someone, it is a crime, but if one stands by and does nothing, it is not. In the context of omissions, in particular, and of withholding treatment, you said that, as far as you were concerned, there was no distinction between an act and an omission. Could you explain that concept further?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 419504,
      "EditedText": "So a doctor is no more entitled not to do something as he is to treat wrongly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 419506,
      "EditedText": "My other question, which may be personal only to me, relates to what one of the doctors said earlier. He said that as a person could refuse treatment—which is right—it would be reasonable for a proxy to refuse treatment. I instinctively drew in my breath at that, as I was not entirely at ease with that statement. Obviously, I can refuse treatment, as I am an awkward, bolshie human being. Regardless of whether it is in my interests to do so, I might just say, \"Who cares?\" That is my right—as the play says, \"It's my life.\" However, the idea that a proxy would have that power and that one could equate the two positions left me feeling uncomfortable. Do you have any views on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 419512,
      "EditedText": "Could one ask for a second opinion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 419515,
      "EditedText": "I cannot think of any way that would do more than allow us to make the presumption that the person is acting in good faith. If the doctors or nursing staff who are in charge of the patient felt that a decision was manifestly being taken in bad faith, or directly in contradiction of the patient's best interests, they could pursue the matter through current common law—a decision could be challenged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 419516,
      "EditedText": "That could be a lengthy and impractical option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 419519,
      "EditedText": "I understand the intention, but I find it difficult to imagine how that could be done. A lot of these issues are heavily dependent on good faith. I know of no test to discover in advance whether someone is likely to act in good faith. We know that proxy decision makers are pretty inaccurate. Most of the research on this subject has been done in the United States. If the person who has appointed the proxy is asked what they would want their proxy to say, and then the proxy is asked what they think that the person would want them to do, the evidence is that there is very little congruence between the two views. Some surveys suggest that the incidence of congruence is no greater than chance. The same often applies to what the doctor thinks that the patient would want and what the patient would actually want, so we are scuppered there.Other legislation has the notion of good faith built in—abortion legislation requires people to testify in good faith that, for example, they have a conscientious objection. Even in such cases, however, the law requires only a statement on oath that a decision is made in good faith. I cannot see how the law could be made any more rigorous for a proxy decision maker, although I understand why you might want it to be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 419523,
      "EditedText": "Only, I would have thought, if that was justified in the circumstances or if the person had been capable of giving consent. The genetic issue is more complicated, because for the moment—as you are almost certainly aware—it seems that people are being extraordinarily cautious before allowing any kind of genetic research to be done. I would have thought that the sensitivities of genetic information were such that the terminology in the bill would not necessarily permit it. It would depend what is meant by risk or minimal risk. If risk is the disclosure of confidential or private information, for example, through genetic information, that would not be a minimal risk in anybody's terms. I know that the language in the bill has been chosen fairly carefully, but I am sure that there will be difficulties down the line in interpreting what is meant by minimal risk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 419524,
      "EditedText": "My first point is on research. Section 48 appears to rule out any research that does not directly benefit the person with incapacity. The British Medical Association said that it would prefer the section to say that the research would not be contrary to the interests of the incapacitated person. There is a clear difference. Would you come down on the side of the bill, which says that research must be of direct benefit to the person with incapacity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 419527,
      "EditedText": "As I said, in some circumstances it is quite clear that there is an incapacity, because it is temporal—it is about loss of consciousness. The biggest problems arise when the decision about capacity or its absence is taken in respect of somebody who is conscious. This is going to sound very cynical, but the question of somebody's capacity to accept—or refuse—medical treatment will arise only when the person does not want to accept the medical recommendation. The same is true with children. That is the point at which health care providers start to say whether a person is competent.Given that human beings, especially adults, are given the absolute right to make decisions that are completely irrational and that do not necessarily follow medical recommendations, I am concerned that there might be a temptation to over-use the notion of incapacity. I am not suggesting that there is a conspiracy, but if there is an intransigent patient and the health care provider knows that medical treatment can help them, there would be some benign temptation. That is the rationale for having someone independent from the care team—which has an interest in doing the best for the patient, in clinical terms—to make such judgments. Ideally, that person would be a lawyer, because incapacity is a concept with clear legal overtones, not medical ones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 419529,
      "EditedText": "The committee must now move on to a different inquiry, the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill. Tommy Sheridan MSP and Mike Dailly from Govan law centre are with us today."
    },
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    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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      "EditedText": "I see that there is a third person with you."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
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      "ContributionID": 419532,
      "EditedText": "That is Mike's assistant. She is not going to speak to the committee."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419535",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Tommy, we will hear from you before we go to questions."
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  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 419536,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Roseanna. I will try to be brief and not dwell on some of the cogent points that Mike Dailly has raised.The fundamental objection that the sponsors of the bill—and Mike, as the draftsperson of the bill—have to warrant sales and poindings is a moral one. We are morally opposed to the use of poindings and warrant sales as a form of debt recovery in a modern society. In my opinion, there are powerful and cogent arguments that illustrate the ineffectiveness of poindings and warrant sales and their incompatibility with the European convention on human rights.Those arguments deserve to be heard; but I want to concentrate more on the fundamental inspiration that has led me, John McAllion and Alex Neil to sponsor this bill. We believe that warrant sales and poindings are immoral and outdated. The committee will be aware that those practices dates back to the 16th century, and that dear old Rabbie Burns himself, in the 18th century, had occasion to criticise their use—which is ironic, given that he was a tax collector. In the early part of this century, Labour and trade union organisations were often founded on a clear commitment to abolish poindings and warrant sales. Our collective hope is that the new Scottish Parliament—assisted by recommendations from this committee—will have the vision and the political courage to take us into a new century without this 16th-century practice.Poindings and warrant sales are about fear and intimidation. They are used almost exclusively against the poor. Multiple debt is a serious problem in Scotland. It is a problem that this bill will not, in itself, address. However, our argument is that poindings and warrant sales do not, in any way, ease the problem of multiple debt—rather, they accentuate it. For many creditors, poindings and warrant sales are seen as reasonable and satisfactory arrangements; we argue that the consequence is often a massive increase in multiple debt problems for people who are already living in poverty.Some argue that we need poindings and warrant sales because some people simply refuse to pay their debts. I hope that the committee will accept that poindings and warrant sales are as ineffective as a chocolate teapot for some people—people who, for want of a better term, I will call Johnny-fly-by-nights. Those people know how to avoid poindings and warrant sales. They know the rules and provisions and which goods are exempted. If one uses the sanction of poindings and warrant sales against a person from Newton Mearns who refuses to pay debts and who has two big cars in the driveway—which is the example that I often hear when speaking to the Law Society of Scotland and others—and if one believes that that person does not know the rules and provisions under the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987, one is suspending reality. Poindings and warrant sales are not about Johnny-fly-by-nights—they are about the poor.I appeal to the committee to keep its eye on the ball. I repeat, poindings and warrant sales are about fear and intimidation. They are about forcing people who are already in debt to accumulate even more debt. I am glad that Mike Dailly brought the example of Mary Ritchie to the committee's attention, because it is important that we deal with reality. Mary faced a warrant sale last Wednesday. If it had proceeded, I and a number of others from Glasgow—including, perhaps, MSPs—would have been outside her door hoping to prevent the warrant sale from taking place.The point is that the woman was trying to survive on £80 of income—incapacity benefit—a week, and the sheriff officers refused a £5 per week repayment schedule. They insisted on a £75 lump sum payment. That is the type of settlement that forces people into the hands of money lenders. It happens day in, day out. The committee must bear in mind the fact that, in the case of a £255 debt, the value of the poinded items was £77. I hope that we are clear that poindings are not about recovering debt; they are about fear and intimidation. I plead with the committee not to be dazzled by legal jargon and establishment arguments. The poor, in our opinion, are daily being intimidated and harassed by sheriff officers wielding the threat of poindings and warrant sales. I do not offer this as a scientific argument, but it is worth noting the recent Glasgow Evening Times opinion poll, which asked whether people supported the abolition of poindings and warrant sales. I might be accused of not using scientific evidence—so be it—but, incredibly, 95 per cent of respondents called for their urgent abolition. I draw attention to the weight of that opinion and I applaud the editorial position of that newspaper, which supports abolition.Many have argued that an alternative is required, and that it is not enough just to abolish poindings and warrant sales. I am not going to argue—neither will John McAllion, Mike Dailly or Alex Neil—that the bill is a rounded-out solution to debt and credit problems in Scotland; there is obviously a need for an overhaul and review. Alternatives exist in the form of wage arrestments, benefit and bank account arrestments, ordinary decree for inhibition of property and sequestration orders. The idea that the whole debt recovery system in Scotland will collapse if the diligence of poindings and warrant sales is removed is patent nonsense. I hope that the committee will accept that. There are other more humane and often more effective methods of debt recovery. I mentioned legal jargon and establishment arguments. The evidence of the Law Society of Scotland comes to mind. According to its written evidence—forgive me if I over-egg the pudding—there would be a disaster in Scotland if poindings and warrant sales were abolished. The Law Society predicts dire consequences—it even claims that the poor will suffer because they may be less likely to gain credit. That seems a perverse and unsubstantiated argument. One of the arguments that it missed was that the weather would get worse, although I am sure that that argument will come in time.One point from the Law Society's evidence that must be taken up is—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 419543,
      "EditedText": "Money Advice Scotland refers to article 8 of the convention, which gives individuals the right to protection of their property. Are you saying that there is another article under which challenges could be made?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419549",
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is right. The figures that Mike Dailly gave earlier indicate that. Some 16,000 of the 23,000 poindings last year were under summary warrant, which means that they were carried out by a local authority, the Department of Social Security or the Inland Revenue. That is interesting because it shows that small businesses or individuals are not using them. There is evidence that the business community does not think that they are necessary. The fundamental question is whether the Inland Revenue could use other diligence. I do not see why, in the case that you mentioned and others like it, ordinary decrees are not used instead of summary warrants. Perhaps the problem is that summary warrants are convenient for public bodies."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419550",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Dailly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
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      "EditedText": "Something like 5,000 of the 23,000 poindings were carried out by the Inland Revenue, Customs and Excise and the Department of Social Security. In their submissions, those bodies concede that poindings and warrant sales are a small part of the diligences that they use. At present, money that is owed can be deducted only from income support. It would be helpful if it were possible to deduct it from any benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419555",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
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      "EditedText": "The point that I was trying to make was that, if the Inland Revenue did not have the opportunity to carry out a warrant sale, it would have been possible for it to recover the money by other means, although it might have taken longer and might have involved more court appearances."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419557",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
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      "EditedText": "I do not know whether Glasgow City Council is giving evidence—I hope so. I would argue that the council is being honest; it feels compelled to use those mechanisms because they exist. In Glasgow, it is a secret—probably one of those secrets that everyone knows about—that the council does not carry out warrant sales. However, the council will not tell people that; an auditor might look unkindly on the end-year report because the council has not used all the diligences available to recover debt.That is why the West Dunbartonshire Council decision is so forward-looking. The council has taken legal advice to the effect that poindings and warrant sales do not recover debt and in fact cost more than other methods of debt recovery. I believe that Glasgow City Council's position is consistent. Although it is forced to use those methods because they are on the statute book, the council would like them removed from the statute book."
    },
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
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      "EditedText": "I hope that Gordon did not take it personally when I talked about legal jargon. I was not having a go at his or other committee members' legal background. I have spoken to the Law Society, the Writers to the Signet and other representatives of the legal establishment, and I have become increasingly disheartened by the gap between their understanding of reality and reality itself. That reality is the debt that people face and the problems that they are trying to grapple with. Evidence that talks about luxury items such as antiques, stocks and cars and forgets about things such as coffee tables and display cabinets displays a breathtaking arrogance and a lack of a grasp of reality.Poindings and warrant sales should not be at the heart of the system of diligence, and I hope that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will recommend to the Parliament that, at the start of a new century, such baggage should be removed. By all means, ask the Scottish Law Commission and the Executive to suggest other reforms or to re-examine the summary warrant procedure and the availability of credit. However, that should not delay what is effectively a stand-alone measure.It would prove a symbolic gesture across Scotland if the Parliament were to pass this bill. I think that it would show a lot of people in Scotland that the Parliament was willing to get to the heart of the things that affect people's lives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11212,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 419565,
      "EditedText": "Mike Dailly wants to come in on that. An upper limit is usually applied and a sheriff officer will usually serve an action of furthcoming in which he will ask for around £1,500 or £2,000 to be arrested. Sometimes there is much more than that in an account, and sometimes there is less. That is the input in a suspense account. Money going in the next day or the day after is not affected; only the money that is in the account on the day when the bank account freeze takes place will be affected. However, most organisations that are serving actions on bank accounts, particularly local authorities, tend to serve them at the end of a month, hoping to catch wage payments going into accounts. That is the problem that citizens advice bureaux are flagging up to us. Bank account arrestments, as they currently operate, take no cognisance of a person's outgoings, whereas a wage arrestment is strictly regulated and is based on the amount that is earned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 519.0,
      "ContributionID": 419568,
      "EditedText": "This may be more of a question for Mike, but feel free to answer it if you want to, Tommy. What are the main types of debts to which you are referring—hire purchase debts or other types of debt?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Dailly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ContributionID": 419569,
      "EditedText": "It is mostly council tax and poll tax debts. The vast majority of people who come into the Govan law centre and other law centres and advice agencies are being chased up by the council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Dailly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 525.0,
      "ContributionID": 419571,
      "EditedText": "People can get into all sorts of debts by taking out loans. It has been said that, if the bill were to go ahead, people would not be able to get credit. It is important to remember that people who are on low incomes do not get good credit because they have probably been blacklisted. They will therefore end up going to agencies that charge over-the-top annual percentage rates, or to the dodgy characters who would send round doorstep debt collectors. People who need to buy clothes for their kids to wear to school may take out a loan from one of those outfits and default on it. They will end up being taken to court and the decree will pass. That is the kind of thing that we are talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 419574,
      "EditedText": "Mike covered that point, but it is worth emphasising it. Time-to-pay orders can be granted only under ordinary decree. In other words, they are not available under summary warrant procedure. Of last year's 23,000 poindings, 16,000 were done by public bodies when time-to-pay orders were not available to the debtor. That is because the procedure introduced by the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 did not allow time-to-pay orders under the summary warrant procedures. That is the type of consideration that should be included in any wider reforming bill. Time-to-pay orders can often be effective but, as the evidence shows, they are not used enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C419577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11212,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 419577,
      "EditedText": "Earlier you spoke about creating different classes of debtors, but the bill seeks abolition of poindings and warrant sales for all debtors. There may be an argument for restricting that to what may be described as domestic debtors and retaining the threat of poindings and warrant sales for commercial debtors. Can you say why you chose to make the bill broader in scope?The Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 outlined other measures, apart from time-to-pay orders, to protect the debtor. I think that I know what your answer to the question that I am about to ask will be, but why do you think that those measures were ignored, underused or not used as they were intended?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Graham Blount (Scottish Land Reform Convention): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 550.0,
      "ContributionID": 419583,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Land Reform Convention was set up to stimulate and conduct debate in civic society about land reform generally. The convention comprises Action of Churches Together in Scotland, the Scottish Trades Union Congress, the SCVO, and a number of other organisations, which are primarily from the voluntary sector. It encourages debate not only on the two bills that Parliament is considering but on the on-going land reform agenda.Andy Wightman is an adviser to the convention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419585",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wightman (Scottish Land Reform Convention): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 419585,
      "EditedText": "There is some confusion about that topic. To be blunt, the whole constitutional position of the Crown and its role in the feudal tenure system has not been subject to adequate analysis and debate in the past. The Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill and the proceedings leading up to it have been dominated by the conveyancing profession to such an extent that, at times, the conveyancing profession regards land tenure as a subset of conveyancing. However, conveyancing is a very, very small subset of land tenure. With respect to those who have been involved, there has been a tendency to view the arguments from a narrow, legalistic point of view, rather than on a wider basis of public policy and constitution. We should perhaps put to one side the debate about the role of the Crown. What was being argued last week was the case for a simple, technical redrafting of section 56 that would allay the fears of those who think that there would be major implications of abolishing the role of the Crown, but would not affect the interests of those, such as Professor Rennie, who think that the Crown has no role to play. At a later stage of the bill, perhaps we could propose a reworded section 56 to address those concerns, without getting bogged down at this stage in the policy debate, which is still unresolved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 419586,
      "EditedText": "I asked about the role of the Crown last week, but I am happy to leave that matter until a later stage, as Andy Wightman suggests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419587",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 419587,
      "EditedText": "Members seem to be uncharacteristically silent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 419588,
      "EditedText": "We are all exhausted."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 419589,
      "EditedText": "Does the Scottish Land Reform Convention foresee any other difficulties? Are there any other problems with the bill that you would like to highlight?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419593",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Lugton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 571.0,
      "ContributionID": 419593,
      "EditedText": "I would choose the words \"potential adverse consequences\", because, until the specific content of the bill has been examined by those bodies, neither they nor we will be in a position to assess what the consequences might be. To date, they have been excluded from the consultation exercise and, in some cases and from the information that we have received, they might not even be aware that the debate is taking place."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419594",
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      "ID": 2386
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wightman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 573.0,
      "ContributionID": 419594,
      "EditedText": "I wish to add to Jim Lugton's comments. The categories of burdens that have been retained are maritime, neighbour, common facilities and conservation. I do not think that anyone has problems with the categories of neighbour and common facilities, as they are sensible. The category of maritime is in direct response to the interests of the Crown Estate commissioners, but I do not want to get into a debate about that. However, I understand that the category of conservation has been introduced only because the National Trust for Scotland was concerned that it would lose its ability to control the fate of property that it had bought and restored—under the small houses scheme, for example. Therefore, the bill contains a series of burdens that have been developed, principally in response to the individual interests of those who originally responded way back in 1991. We argue that the consultation process has been flawed, as the Law Commission's report was published in February, a letter went out in June inviting people to comment on that report by August and then the bill was published in October this year. The people who were invited to comment in June could do so only if they could afford £22.50 to buy the Law Commission's report. In addition, the detail of feudal tenure is so complex that most people simply cannot get a handle on the issues. In a range of circumstances across Scotland, it could be deemed to be in the public interest for burdens to be retained. It could be argued that conservation is one such circumstance, although that has big implications, which should be explored further. Just because the National Trust for Scotland wants conservation to be retained does not mean that other interests in society will be happy that their land could be saddled with burdens from bodies such as Scottish Natural Heritage, which are to be approved by the First Minister. There will be a big debate about that. There are other interests, such as the Corstorphine Trust, which has been mentioned already and which I understand is a democratically elected body that owns the superiority of the village of Corstorphine, and housing interests—perhaps Gavin Corbett could address that issue. In other words, there are interests in society that own superiorities or that would be able to use the mechanisms of superiorities to advance not their own individual interests but an interest on behalf of the community. Those people have not had an adequate opportunity to explore the implications of the bill for their interests. They might wake up in a couple of years' time to realise that the functions that they fulfilled in the past—preserving the amenity of Corstorphine, providing for social housing, or whatever—are no longer available to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ID": 11213,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Lugton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 579.0,
      "ContributionID": 419597,
      "EditedText": "I wish to echo what Andy said in respect of one aspect of the bill. A confusing series of statements and information has been released on the consequences of the bill for the udal system of landholding in parts of Shetland. The Deputy First Minister was inconsistent when he said, in reply to a question from Mike Watson: \"The proposed legislation will also abolish some other archaic forms of land tenure and types of payment. It will not, however, abolish udal tenure, which is already non-feudal.\"—Official Report, Written Answers, 30 June 1999; Vol 1, p 29.Subsequently, in paragraph 211 of the memorandum to the bill, which deals with section 70 on interpretation, we were told: \"The definition expressly includes land which was not actually held on feudal tenure but which because of its nature might have been (for example, ground owned under udal law).\"Despite those two statements, we find in part 1 of schedule 11 to the bill, that the Udal Tenure Act 1690—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ID": 11213,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Lugton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 587.0,
      "ContributionID": 419601,
      "EditedText": "In part 1 of schedule 11 to the bill,  on general repeals, we find the proposal to repeal the Udal Tenure Act 1690. Those three statements are not consistent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ID": 11213,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 593.0,
      "ContributionID": 419604,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that part of the problem was the admission that the convener managed to extract at the previous meeting, that there is a series of bills: one is the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill and the other is a bill on title conditions, which is yet to come? Professor Rennie advised us that it would have been more beneficial for the committee to consider the two bills together. Perhaps some of the concerns of Shelter and other organisations will be addressed when we consider the second bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ID": 11213,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 595.0,
      "ContributionID": 419605,
      "EditedText": "I do not envy the committee's task in considering real burdens reform, tenement law reform—another aspect of this subject—and a complicated set of proposals. It has not been the easiest process with which to engage. That is in marked contrast to the consultation process on the land reform white paper, which I know the committee will be considering later. There has been a thorough engagement with that matter.I do not want to suggest that everything that the committee is considering is wrong—the bill is thorough and much research has gone into it. However, some areas need to be considered more thoroughly, and feudal burdens are an example of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ID": 11213,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wightman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 601.0,
      "ContributionID": 419607,
      "EditedText": "The professor's statement was a matter of opinion. As I hinted earlier, I have problems with the conveyancing profession."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ID": 11213,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wightman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 605.0,
      "ContributionID": 419609,
      "EditedText": "I have problems with the conveyancing profession commenting on matters that are much wider than conveyancing. That is not to criticise Professor Rennie's obvious professional competence in the area. I am not legally trained either, so I do not presume that I have any specialist knowledge on the topic. However, Robin Callander, who gave evidence to the committee last week, has spent the past four or five years doing detailed research into the nature of the public interest in land and has published a book on the topic. It sets out a number of arguments, which have not been countered by anybody in the legal profession, and which highlight that for decades—perhaps centuries—the system of land tenure has not been subject to scrutiny beyond a narrow class of those involved in conveyancing property within that system and covered by it. The debate about the nature of the public interest in land has been dead for a long time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 17 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 419317,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, everyone. People are still coming in, but I want to press on as quickly as possible because we have a great deal to get through this morning. We will just have to bear with people coming in late.I have one or two brief comments to make. I have received an apology for the absence of Christine Grahame, who is unwell.Members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will notice that there are extra members of the Scottish Parliament here today. Principally, they are from the Health and Community Care Committee, which wishes to have an input into the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. Members of that committee have come along this morning to listen to the evidence of our witnesses and will have the opportunity to ask questions if they wish. I understand that the Health and Community Care Committee will meet immediately afterwards to discuss its input into this bill, so it is important that its members are here.For those who are not aware of it, this morning a demonstration will be held outside the chamber by prison officers who are concerned by the recent announcement of job losses and prison closures. I understand that about 100 gallery tickets have been given out for today's meeting. I expect that most of them have been given to prison officers, so they will be entering at some point this morning. The massed ranks of prison officers are gathering down the road at 9:30, so I presume that they will be on their way shortly.I advise the committee that we have managed, with a bit of careful rejigging, to organise next week's agenda to allow Tony Cameron, the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service, and representatives from the trade union side, to give evidence on the changes to the Prison Service. That meeting will also be held in the chamber.Because we have asked for extra witnesses this week, we have postponed consideration of the draft report on Scottish prisons that was to form part of our early considerations of Her Majesty's inspector's report. That report, which deals only with the evidence taken on the prison inspector's report and the prison visits that took place in September, will now be postponed until next week. The report will not deal with the current issues facing prisons; it is a different part of the investigation entirely.Do members of the committee agree that, as we had planned, that part of next week's business should take place in private, as we will be discussing a draft report that, until it is finalised, should not be publicly recorded?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 17 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11209,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 419318,
      "EditedText": "Next week we will also consider the stage 1 report on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. Do members agree that, as we will be discussing a draft report, that part of the meeting should also take place in private?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 419325,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. I would also like to thank the two witnesses who have travelled far to be here today. We appreciate that, particularly given the short notice.We will move straight to the questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 419326,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. Some of the witnesses who have come before us have expressed concern about nutrition and hydration being included in the definition of medical treatment. Does the BMA have a view on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 419331,
      "EditedText": "The law lords in the Bland case made it clear that each case that you describe should go to court until a body of evidence emerged that might make that unnecessary. I must stress that they were talking about persistent vegetative state, which is a narrower clinical situation than we addressed in our recent document.In Scotland, it is regarded as unnecessary to take cases of persistent vegetative state to court. We would argue that a sufficient body of evidence has arisen in England and Wales to avoid that need, and our recent document said that we do not think one should have to go to court in most cases in which a decision to withdraw life-sustaining treatment has been made.We regard the framework that we have set up as being adequate to achieve the right consensus between the doctors and the family and we think that the courts should be involved only where there are significant and irresolvable differences between them. I think that the Scottish way is the better way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 419332,
      "EditedText": "As a practising doctor in Scotland who has been involved in this issue, I think that the solution is working very well in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 419339,
      "EditedText": "Some of our concerns about the bill are not so much related to the wording itself, but to interpretations that have been put on the wording in some submissions and committee reports. I have read that section 44(2)(b) of the bill effectively allows people to withdraw treatment. That does not seem relevant. The present situation could still hold if we stick strictly to the wording of the bill. I understand that section 44(2)(b) talks about the initiation of treatment, not its withdrawal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 419343,
      "EditedText": "I have a slight reservation about the suggestion in your submission that there is room for some experimentation or research without anyone's consent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 419349,
      "EditedText": "We should clarify the important distinction between artificial nutrition and hydration, as specified in section 44(2)(b), and oral nutrition and hydration, to which Dr Wilks has referred. We should also clarify that, to our knowledge, the court judgments have related specifically to patients in a persistent vegetative state. The provision to which Mr Gallie referred relates specifically to such patients."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 419351,
      "EditedText": "We do not think that the bill as it stands is flawed from a medical perspective. Our aim is to allow the doctor, the health care team and the relatives to find the best way forward in the interests of the patient. The framework that we have outlined, detailing the processes that should be gone through before a decision is made on whether to withdraw or withhold treatment, is designed to achieve consensus. It is geared towards the benefit of the patient and is intended to make recourse to the courts unnecessary. In Scotland, unlike in England and Wales, it appears that individual cases of PVS do not need to come before the courts. We would hope that, if the general principles of withdrawing and withholding treatment are applied to a wider group of patients who are similarly incapacitated—those defined as having no prospect of recovery—the same flexibility would operate within the health care team and the family.We have a broader concern about what would happen if a doctor considered that a treatment was to the benefit of the patient and somebody in authority—a proxy or other appointed person—refused that treatment on the patient's behalf. We feel that section 47, in particular, may not contain enough protection for the patient, because the doctor who is deciding whether to respond to a refusal of treatment by a third party has to be satisfied if the proxy indicates that the refusal is based on their understanding that that is of benefit to the patient. We would like the proxy to have to provide more evidence to the doctor that they are acting in what the patient considers to be their best interests. At that time, of course, the patient is incapable of expressing a view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C419352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 419352,
      "EditedText": "The questions and answers so far have already homed in on the two subsections—sections 44(2) and 47(1)—that I wanted to ask about and that seem to be at the centre of the controversy. It is in conjunction, rather than separately, that they are controversial. The first issue is that, as many people have said, section 47(1) appears to give welfare attorneys or guardians the power to refuse ventilation, nutrition and hydration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 419355,
      "EditedText": "Given the discussion that is taking place across society—let alone in this committee in recent weeks—it is important to classify nutrition and hydration by artificial means as treatment, as the courts have done on both sides of the border. If your question is, \"Are we in favour of retaining section 44(2)(b)?\" the answer is that we are. It is important to clarify that definition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 419362,
      "EditedText": "There is a slight difficulty with that, of course, because advance directives have been specifically excluded from the bill, although I think it was originally proposed that they be built into it. Other organisations have submitted written evidence suggesting that, regardless of whether advance directives are given standing in legislation, they will become important in practice because of the way in which decisions will be reached about the ability of people with incapacity to make known their views. It seems that, in a sense, you are now confirming that view. Do you think that, regardless of whether the bill covers them, they will become important?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 419363,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We think that a competent advance directive that contains a refusal of treatment is as important as a contemporaneous refusal and should be respected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 419367,
      "EditedText": "Could you speed things up a wee bit, Richard? We are struggling for time this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C419370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 419370,
      "EditedText": "My other main concern involves the point that has been addressed by our colleagues in the Justice and Home Affairs Committee—the definition of intervention. Many things are defined in the act. Section 76 gives an interpretation of many of the terms and issues. Would you like that section to include an interpretation of intervention, to cover not only positive interventions but omissions and withdrawals? The whole question of intervention would then be more specifically defined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 419371,
      "EditedText": "We would accept a definition in which a decision to withdraw was regarded as an intervention as part of the general decision-making process in clinical care. We think that there is an advantage in flexibility; we would have some discomfort about defining an intervention too closely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 419372,
      "EditedText": "This has to be seen in an international context—we are one of the few countries without a clear definition of a medical act. That is both a blessing and a difficulty. I agree with what Dr Simpson is saying in principle, but it could lead to very complex legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 419375,
      "EditedText": "First, what if someone had made an advance directive and advances in medical science are such that the decision that they made in the past has been overtaken by treatment, now readily available, that could perhaps bring them back to a good quality of life? Secondly, how—briefly—would you define a medical act?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 419377,
      "EditedText": "We share your concern about advance directives, which is why we are not arguing that they should be included in the legislation. As you say, things change and it is difficult to envisage an advance directive that could be sufficiently comprehensive to be always valid. We would argue that any advance directive should be taken into account, however."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 419380,
      "EditedText": "Am I right in thinking that what you are looking for from proxies and attorneys is responsible decision making?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 419382,
      "EditedText": "Will members make their questions as brief as possible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 419384,
      "EditedText": "We have concerns, which have been addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 419386,
      "EditedText": "You make a presumption that the new bill will allow welfare attorneys to give consent to the use of organs or tissues on behalf of other patients. What did you have in mind?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 419387,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean for transplantation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 419388,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 419393,
      "EditedText": "As we said in our written submission, we feel that the bill tends towards a functional definition of incapacity. Incapacity may vary over quite short periods of time for an individual or may vary for particular decisions. Someone may be capable of making a decision on one issue, but not on a more complex issue. We feel that the bill allows for that interpretation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 419398,
      "EditedText": "That will nearly always be the case, though."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 419401,
      "EditedText": "As it stands, it is conceivable that they could be excluded. We would like them to be included, after the approval of a research ethics committee, and bearing in mind our interpretation of the clause that refers to a special ethics committee relating to those with mental incapacity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon (Royal College of Nursing): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 419411,
      "EditedText": "I am Alex McMahon and I am the adviser on nursing policy for the RCN in Scotland. My background is as a mental health nurse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 419419,
      "EditedText": "Is that within the terms of your code of professional conduct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 419423,
      "EditedText": "Is there the possibility that the bill as it stands might create conflict for nurses between what they are required to do in terms of their own code and the requirements that are set out in the proposed bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 419424,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. That is why we ask for the phrase \"clinical treatment\" to be used rather than \"medical treatment\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 419427,
      "EditedText": "Although I do not want to set you at odds with the BMA, do you prefer what has been described as the English practice, in which the court will always be involved in such decisions, instead of the more flexible Scottish practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 419433,
      "EditedText": "So, although you agree with the BMA, you are concerned about the confused legal position in which nurses find themselves at the moment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 419435,
      "EditedText": "That is a slightly different issue. I am sorry, Maureen—I butted in. Do you want to come back in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 419437,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Nurses are skilled professionals and their care would ensure that patients' dignity and comfort are maintained. We hope that, in the appropriate circumstances, pain relief would also allow for a pain-free death."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 419438,
      "EditedText": "As many of my questions have already been asked, I will just raise a few brief points. Is there a clear-cut division between a doctor's responsibility and a nurse's responsibility? Are there any grey areas between medical and nursing issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 419442,
      "EditedText": "I heard what you said about the rights of the attorney in respect of the code of conduct. Do you have any suggestions about how to include such principles in the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 419447,
      "EditedText": "A large group of people have come into the public gallery. I understand that they are prison officers from the demonstration that I mentioned earlier. I remind committee members that at our next meeting we will take evidence from Tony Cameron, the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service, and from the trade union side on yesterday's announcement. More prison officers may come into the gallery, so members may hear a little noise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 419448,
      "EditedText": "Using the term \"best interests\" would benefit patients where, for example, a confused patient is in a ward with doors to the outside. It may be that a nurse decides to lock the doors. In that situation she is acting in the interests of the patient, who may be so confused as to wander out and harm himself or herself. Obviously, that is not of benefit to the patient, because they are being denied access to the outside, but the nurse is trying to limit any danger that may come to that patient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C419449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 419449,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that retaining the word \"benefit\" would exclude that form of care?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 419450,
      "EditedText": "The individual needs of the patient must be considered. At times, acting in the best interests of the patient might not be of benefit to the patient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 419452,
      "EditedText": "In our submission to the Millan review of mental health legislation, the Royal College of Nursing asked that nurses be considered for mental health officer status. We did that because nurses deliver 80 per cent of patient care and are in a good position to identify what patients require. Often nurses cannot readily get access to a doctor or social worker; if they had mental health officer status, they could instigate the process of assessment. I do not say that every nurse would fit the criteria—the competency of the nurse would be a factor—but there is scope for that measure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 419467,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. We are calling for parity among professionals on decision making."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C419468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 419468,
      "EditedText": "I am also concerned that nurses may feel that they will experience more stress because of such withdrawals of treatment. Is that also one of your concerns for the profession? Some cases must be stressful at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 419469,
      "EditedText": "I take your point, but the same thing applies across the professions. Doctors and physiotherapists also experience stress when dealing with patients who are in a persistent vegetative state. We want to ensure that everyone is working in an environment with which they are happy, and that they are not being unnecessarily exposed to stress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 419474,
      "EditedText": "Has your organisation considered the implications of part 4, or would you like to come back to us after having considered it further?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 419475,
      "EditedText": "I think that I will take the opportunity to come back to you at a later date on that one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 419482,
      "EditedText": "So your view is that this is and ought to be a team decision, rather than one person laying down the law?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sheila McLean (University of Glasgow): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 419485,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I am actually professor of law and ethics in medicine, which is a pretty cumbersome title. I mention that because my background is in law—I am not a health care provider or purely an ethicist.I had not intended to make anything approaching an opening statement, but perhaps I can give you the lawyers' view on the current position in Scotland in respect of the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration. I sat through the Janet Johnston case and was present for the final judgment. My understanding is that individual cases do not need to be brought before the Scottish courts—in other words, that the decision can be left to the clinicians. On the other hand, immediately after the Law hospital decision, the Lord Advocate said that he would guarantee not to prosecute doctors who were involved in removing nutrition and hydration only if the Court of Session had authorised them to do that. That is slightly different position from the one that people had assumed.My interest in the bill has been spiced by what I have heard this morning, and I wonder whether I may ask a question. It is my presumption that the main intention of the bill is to close a legal loophole that left nobody authorised to consent to treatment on behalf of an incapacitated adult. If that is the case, it seems to me that a number of the points of difficulty that have been raised are not relevant. This is a bill that confers positive powers. If section 47 is read in the light of the conclusion of section 44(1), which refers to the\"authority to do what is reasonable in the circumstances to safeguard or promote the physical or mental health of that adult\",some of the concerns that have been expressed in the media and outside this chamber should be assuaged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 419486,
      "EditedText": "That is the view that most of us held prior to taking evidence. Our difficulty is with what one might call the law of unintended consequences. We all know of pieces of legislation that have become subject to interpretations that are at odds with what was originally intended by them. We have heard a number of witnesses express concern about the possibility that that might happen with this bill. I know that this is rather like crystal ball gazing, but that is why we go through the process of taking evidence. From the evidence that you have seen, you will know that certain organisations have raised specific concerns relating to omissions as opposed to acts. Members of both the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the Health and Community Care Committee would find it useful if you could comment on any potential unintended consequences of the bill. From the text of the bill—leaving aside its stated intention—and from the evidence that we have been given, do you believe that those concerns are justified?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 419487,
      "EditedText": "My impression from the evidence that I have seen so far, and from the bill, is that it is remarkably clear. When the Scottish Law Commission report was produced I had hoped that the Scottish Parliament would be enabled to look at advanced directives and at the distinction between acts and omissions, which, in my view, is a distinction without a difference in legal terms. The bill is clearer than it might have been because those issues were excluded from it. That allows people to focus on what the bill does, which is to supplement common law capacities with a statutory basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 419489,
      "EditedText": "I understand why that is being suggested and the intention is good, but it would create legal difficulties. We have no tradition of a duty of care between individuals and the community, as opposed to between the individual and those with a professional responsibility to them. For example, we have no duty to rescue; it is against the law to commit an assault but not to fail to prevent an assault from being committed. To impose on an individual, non-professional person an equivalent to the duty of care expected from professionals would be to create something novel. It could be difficult to impose because it turns our legal tradition on its head. It would be extremely difficult to enforce—what would you do if the person failed? With groups that have a duty of care, such as doctors and nurses, there are sanctions available if they fail in that duty, either through litigation or through their professional associations. I do not know who would implement or deal with a breach of a duty of care in an individual."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419493",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 419493,
      "EditedText": "If there is a dispute between the proxy and the health care professionals, the courts should be involved. I would say that about any decision that makes an avoidable death unavoidable—for example, by withdrawing nutrition and hydration. We should not be hesitant about taking such a decision to court because it is much more than medical; it is a matter of human rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 419501,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The only case law that I know of concerns a couple of English cases, in which the Court of Appeal moved as far away as it could from saying that anybody could force doctors or nurses to treat individual patients. I have every reason to think that the Scottish courts would take precisely the same attitude. The answer is yes, you may give somebody powers to make less than life-threatening decisions, and you may give them powers to agree in circumstances in which no one else could. However, unless the common law is breached, you are not passing on to the guardian or welfare attorney the power to compel clinicians to treat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 419505,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. If the doctor—or nurse—failed to provide treatment in circumstances that were subsequently challenged, their omission to provide the treatment would be just as culpable, if it were negligent, as an act would be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 419507,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I share your view. The proxy, in any event, is not being asked the same question. You would ask yourself, \"Do I want this treatment?\" You might not, because you might want to go to a party tomorrow night and the treatment would get in the way. The proxy is not asked that question—the proxy is always asked to act in the best interests of, or for the benefit of, the third party. It is not the same decision. You are entitled to deny your best interests and no other person can be given that power. You can say, \"I know it's in my best interests to avoid this party and get this treatment, but I do not choose to do that.\" No other person can be given that power over your life and treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 419508,
      "EditedText": "That brings us back to the definition of the proxy's duty of care, which is what I find difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 419509,
      "EditedText": "As I said, I understand that the proxy—or whatever that person is called—will fill the gap that existed in law, which was that no one could make a decision for an incapacitated adult. The proxy is being offered a limited range of decisions—inevitably, as there are some issues that they could not decide—or a limited opportunity to act in the best interests of the incapacitated adult. Almost certainly, that decision would almost always be to accept recommended medical treatment. The bill puts the health care provider in a safer position legally, because they will know that the proxy has some authority. It also allows the person who is incapacitated to receive treatment that otherwise they may not have been able to get. I see that part of the bill as a positive provision of authority rather than a negative removal of treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 419511,
      "EditedText": "Again, I have sympathy with the concept but, pragmatically, I cannot see how any more of an imposition could be made on people's good faith, which is what one has to rely on in institutionalising proxy decision making.I do not see how we could create an additional duty of care. Oddly enough, the best safeguard is to ensure that only some people are entitled to be proxies. Some problems could be screened out before people are given authority. I am not clear on how much more could be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 419514,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that there is no way of putting a safeguard on the actions of a proxy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C419520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 419520,
      "EditedText": "You have certainly increased rather than reduced my anxiety.Do you have any comments about research in relation to the European Convention on Human Rights and Biomedicine, to which, I suspect, we will sign up? Do you think that it should be incorporated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 419525,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I would. The concept that the BMA favours is becoming popular, for good reasons. In the context of research, however, I would still err on the side of caution. The bill should at least contribute to minimising the number of incapable people who are involved as research subjects, even though I understand why research needs to be done and the benefits for patient care that it may lead to. The provision represents something close to a balance—it will satisfy neither the extreme human rights view nor the clinical view, but it is somewhere reasonably in the middle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 419533,
      "EditedText": "Fine. I welcome you all to the committee. You have asked to make brief opening statements, which I must ask you to keep fairly tight, as we are running about 10 minutes behind schedule. We will then move on to questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
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      "ID": 11212,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 419538,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, Roseanna. I will finish on this point. I accused people of being out of touch with reality. The Law Society has said that current legislation on poindings and warrant sales offers enough protection for the poor. In its evidence, it said that only people who had luxury goods such as a car, valuable antiques, stock and the like needed to be worried by poindings and warrant sales. I ask the committee to consider the facts: it is televisions, hi-fis, videos, coffee tables and display cabinets that are getting poinded daily, not luxury items. That shows how out of touch the Law Society's argument is. West Dunbartonshire Council has taken a courageous and innovative decision. It has banned poindings and warrant sales and put in place other effective forms of debt recovery. In the space of six months, it has collected £300,000 by visiting debtors and by trying to make more humane and compassionate arrangements. It is also running another project to maximise benefits—in the same six-month period, it has enabled £1.1 million of unclaimed benefits to be claimed, which has reduced debt problems in its area. I offer that as the way forward for this Parliament. I conclude by asking the committee to recommend to the Parliament to support the bill so that we march into the 21st century, leaving behind the medieval and antiquated method of debt recovery of the 16th century. Further reforms may come in the future, but this bill stands on its own two feet and is worthy of support in and of itself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 419539,
      "EditedText": "Mike, you made a point about the European convention on human rights. Money Advice Scotland has made the same point. Given current interest in the matter, could you expand a bit on the effect of the ECHR on Scots law and, in particular, on your view that you could not make a challenge now? I am not clear why you think that. It would be useful to have on record why you think that a challenge under the ECHR would end up with warrant sales going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Dailly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
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      "EditedText": "You are quite correct about the Scotland Act 1998. However, that is only applicable for things that the Scottish Parliament, the Scottish Executive and the Lord Advocate do; only the acts of those institutions must be compliant with the convention under the Scotland Act 1998. Local authorities, for example, do not fall under the Scotland Act 1998 in that regard. We must therefore wait until the Human Rights Act 1998 comes into force for the rest of the United Kingdom before it can be used.We have looked into the matter. Whatever happens, come next year, article 6 of the convention, which says that every citizen has the right to a fair and impartial determination of their civil rights, will apply. One thing that worries me about summary warrant procedure, which is a powerful procedure, is that, effectively, a bundle of debts for various people throughout the country can all be passed to the sheriff court and essentially just rubber-stamped. Once there is a summary warrant and a poinding takes place, it is not necessary to ask the sheriff's permission to do a warrant sale.The problem in the case last week was that there was no way to challenge that other than to say that the whole summary warrant procedure was invalid. The whole procedure will, I am sure, be challenged. Given that we know that the vast majority of poindings are carried out on the back of summary warrants, the bill would go some way towards helping the Scottish Parliament to comply with its obligations under the convention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Dailly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 419544,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Article 8 gives the right to respect for family life. One could use that to argue that a warrant sale was in breach of the convention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ID": 11212,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 419546,
      "EditedText": "If I may answer the last part of Gordon's question first, what he has described is already a reality. Tens of thousands of benefit attachments have already been made in Glasgow, for both council tax and residual poll tax arrears. The only advantage of benefit arrestments is that they are limited, the current maximum being about £2.50 a week. That is why the offer that Mary Ritchie was making was so attractive. She was offering double what could have been obtained legally via a benefit arrestment.Gordon made the point that warrant sales are a last resort, but my argument is that other measures already exist. If he is saying that the abolition of poindings and warrant sales would lead many more people to refuse to pay their debts, that implies that many people do not want to pay their debts. However, all the evidence, including even that of the Law Commission, shows that the overwhelming majority of people in Scotland pay their dues regularly. It is not a case of people deliberately avoiding paying their debts; something like 95 per cent of the debt that is being pursued is owed by people who want to pay but are unable to do so because of poverty.I accept that the bill does not address the problems of credit control. However, if a credit agency were unwilling to give credit to someone with a low income because it was worried that it would not get its money back without the sanction of a poinding and warrant sale, I would question the ethics of that agency. I do not think that it would be a bad thing to restrict the type of crazy-jobs credit facility that is the bane of the lives of many poor communities, offering televisions for a pound that cost £300 in the long run. I ask Gordon and other members to consider whether credit and debt recovery would collapse in Scotland if poindings and warrant sales were no longer available from tomorrow. I do not think so. There will be marginal problems. We must accept that any change to the law will have consequences. However, the change that I am asking for in this bill has more advantages than disadvantages."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 419558,
      "EditedText": "The Glasgow City Council submission that Phil mentioned was actually from the consumer and trading standards division, which also makes the point that poindings are invariably used to frighten debtors who are mostly already stressed about other outstanding debts. There are other descriptions of the distress caused by poindings and warrant sales. Many of us have seen such distress. However, is not that the point?Last year, according to the Scottish Executive justice department, there were 23,067 poindings, of which only 513 proceeded to warrant sales. I agree that poindings have little effect on gathering debt, but instead humiliate people into trying to get some money from moneylenders or whomever. Like you, I am looking forward to the Law Society's visit to the committee because it claims that poindings and warrant sales represent\"a sanction which lies at the heart of our whole system of diligence\".Will you comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 419560,
      "EditedText": "If, out of 23,000 poindings, only 513 proceed to warrant sales, that is not an efficient method of gathering debt, leaving aside the fact that they are humiliating and all the rest of it. If the method not efficient for the local authorities, what purpose does it serve, and how on earth can it be at the heart of the system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 419561,
      "EditedText": "If I were the Law Society, I would probably turn the argument on its head and say that that is evidence of how effective it is. When I have spoken to people from the Law Society, they argue, \"Yes, we have 23,000 poindings, but only 513 warrant sales, and that is because people have paid up once they have been poinded—so it is effective.\" In its submission to the committee, the Law Society talks about \"suitable arrangements\" being arrived at. I have questioned what is meant by suitable arrangements, and been told that it means suitable to the creditor.The problem with the Mary Ritchie case and the others is that people who are faced with a poinding will put off some other payment, to pay off the poinding. They will not, all of a sudden, find money under the mattress; they will get themselves into multiple debt. We, as a Parliament, should take measures, even small ones, to prevent that. Abolishing poindings and warrant sales could help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 419562,
      "EditedText": "I support the principles in the bill, and I agree that the evidence suggests that poindings and warrant sales are more a punishment than an effective method of collecting debt. I would like to ask some questions arising from the numerous submissions that we have had on the bill. I have not read all of them, but I have a flavour of the three points of view—in favour, opposed and neutral.Citizens Advice Scotland feels that, if poindings and warrant sales were abolished, there might be a stronger emphasis on other means of enforcement, and it is especially concerned about the banks. I would like to press you on that, Tommy. For the reasons that you have just outlined, Citizens Advice Scotland is suggesting a debt arrangement scheme. Often, when there is a warrant sale, the person involved might have more than one debt, and will pay the most aggressive creditor. It might therefore be sensible to examine closely procedures that could run in tandem with the abolition of warrant sales, and to think about how we could put in place a scheme that would allow people to manage their debt more effectively. I believe—as you do, Tommy—that it is not that people do not want to pay; it is just that they have so many people on their backs that they do not know what to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ContributionID": 419567,
      "EditedText": "I do not foresee that at all. As I emphasised earlier, there are exceptions to every rule. In general, however, poindings and warrant sales are being used against the poor, and the poor tend not to have bank accounts or, if they have bank accounts, there is not much in them. For that reason, I do not think that the abolition of warrant sales will lead to a massive increase in bank account seizures. That is not to say that I do not think that that procedure needs to be reformed; it needs to be reformed for those who are subject to that diligence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 523.0,
      "ContributionID": 419570,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other types of debt besides those?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 527.0,
      "ContributionID": 419572,
      "EditedText": "Coming from Pollok, I know that there is a lot of catalogue debt, especially at this time of year, when many families get into debt to pay for the kids' toys and clothes at Christmas. They can spend the rest of the year trying to pay back that money, and sometimes they default on their payments because of an illness in the family or for other reasons. That leads to the use, not often of poindings and warrant sales, but often of other collecting agencies, some of which are better than others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 529.0,
      "ContributionID": 419573,
      "EditedText": "I have two final questions. A number of organisations have said that there is simply not enough use of time orders, which are contained in the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Have you anything to say about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 419575,
      "EditedText": "My final question addresses a different subject. Are you concerned about commercial debt? At the moment, there is no distinction between commercial and consumer debt. Are you saying that there should not be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419576",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 419576,
      "EditedText": "Making that sort of distinction would create more problems than it solved. I have spoken to the Federation of Small Businesses—which, as the committee knows, has submitted evidence—and to other, not-so-small businesses. They say that they do not use poindings and warrant sales because they are not an effective means of recovering debt of a commercial character. My bill would not fundamentally or significantly affect commercial debt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 419578,
      "EditedText": "It would have been fundamentally inconsistent of me to come before the committee and argue against the principle of poindings and warrant sales, while saying that it was okay to retain them for commercial debt. I think that they are wrong full stop. They are a medieval practice, dating back to before the 16th  century. It would also be incredibly difficult to differentiate between commercial and domestic debts. It is best to take a holistic approach and to abolish poindings and warrant sales completely. As I said earlier, that will not affect the ability of commercial traders to pursue commercial debt. The commercial sector has not presented us with a plethora of evidence that the bill would be a disaster. In fact, the people who are saying that are from the legal profession.Euan Robson's second point related to the reforms contained in the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987. It is important to bear in mind that protection is effective only if people know that they have it. That is why I made a distinction between the Johnny-fly-by-nights and the overwhelming majority of people, who do not know what is exempt and are unaware of their rights under the law. I have dealt with many cases in which people have had three-piece suites poinded because they did not know that those were exempt. Often such people do not come to us until months later, having missed the two-week deadline for taking the matter to court. The lack of information is legion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C419579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 419579,
      "EditedText": "Lack of information and advice has thwarted some of the intentions of the 1987 act. From my experience in the energy industry, it is perfectly clear to me that one can never provide people with too much advice and information. I would favour incorporating into your bill some extension of advice and assistance to people, if possible, as that would represent a marked improvement on the current situation. Do you agree that at the moment the provision of advice can be haphazard?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419590",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ID": 11213,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Blount: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ContributionID": 419590,
      "EditedText": "Our primary concern has been to assert that there is a public interest in land and that it is unrealistic to separate land tenure as a legal issue from the impact of land use, management and ownership on people and communities. We think that there might be some difficulties with the consultation process. For example, the idea of conservation burdens has been introduced fairly late in the process, without any opportunity for people other than those who proposed it to respond to it and consider its implications in greater detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Lugton (Scottish Land Reform Convention): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ContributionID": 419591,
      "EditedText": "Allow me to develop that argument a little further. We are particularly concerned that some of the content of the bill on burdens may lead to difficulties for organisations such as the Corstorphine Trust in Edinburgh, which owns a substantial area of land in the Corstorphine area. That sort of body has not been involved in the process as yet, and may not appreciate the consequences of this type of reform. There are considerable numbers of similar smaller trusts in towns and villages scattered throughout Scotland. We feel that engagement in the consultation process by such bodies is a vital part of the relationship between civic society and the Parliament and that, in the preparation of the legislation, greater thought and consideration should have been given to it.Another aspect is important. If there are no specific safeguards for those bodies, there is a real danger that proceeding too rapidly on wholesale abolition will merely close the door on the public policy interest in land. The Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, as a gathering of civic societies, would like that public policy interest to be retained."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11213,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 585.0,
      "ContributionID": 419600,
      "EditedText": "That would be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ID": 11213,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 597.0,
      "ContributionID": 419606,
      "EditedText": "That is one of the points which I wanted you to address in more detail. The concern expressed by members of the committee last week was that we were doing one part of a much larger jigsaw. The extent to which each of the subsequent pieces of legislation will impact on this one had not been fully appreciated by any of us. Considering the bill will be difficult. Without knowing what future legislation will contain, we cannot be certain that we are using our time effectively. We might be wasting time in being concerned about things that will be fixed. We are struggling with how to deal with that.We have had a fairly detailed second submission from Land Reform Scotland as a result of the evidence that was heard at the committee meeting last week. Do you have any comments on that? I appreciate that it is not your evidence. You will know that we heard from Professor Rennie last week, and that he said that there is no public interest under the feudal system.The issue that has been at the core of some of the submissions—including the one from Shelter—is that we should explicitly retain a reference to the public interest, in a way that is most appropriate. Professor Rennie was clearly of the view that that was an interesting idea, but that the feudal system itself was not about the public interest. Land Reform Scotland has indicated that other authorities counter Professor Rennie's opinion. Unfortunately, in its submission, it does not tell us who those other authorities are. This question is probably best addressed to Andy Wightman. Are you aware of other authorities? I am a lawyer and, to me, other authorities means something specific. Land Reform Scotland may be using a different context. Will Andy comment on what Land Reform Scotland is saying about Professor Rennie's opinion that there is no public interest under feudal tenure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11213,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ContributionID": 419608,
      "EditedText": "Don't we all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Blount: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 607.0,
      "ContributionID": 419610,
      "EditedText": "Within the convention, we have spoken about the possibility of getting a QC's opinion or a similar legal basis for the case. We feel that it is not an appropriate role for us in the process to get legal opinion on one side of the debate, or the other. What we are saying is that the public interest must be safeguarded. It does not appear that anybody from the Executive can tell us what is being abolished in terms of the Crown's role as paramount superior. It therefore seems to be illogical to be so enthusiastic about having it abolished."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 609.0,
      "ContributionID": 419611,
      "EditedText": "It is worth emphasising that at this stage of the bill we are, as a committee, required to draft a report on its principles. That will go to the Parliament and will inform the stage 1 debate. The bill will come back to us for a lengthy and detailed line-by-line process, which is where specific amendments will be debated. We are saying to all witnesses that, whatever you feel your remit might be at the moment, if it becomes necessary in your view to propose specific amendments, they can be introduced via sympathetic MSPs, whose name will have to be added in support of them. It is open to you for weeks, if not months, to consider the more specific issues. Our report must be on the principles. It has sometimes proven difficult to remember that, because members want to dive into a specific discussion about a potential amendment, which is not what we should be doing at this stage.Do any members have further questions that they wish to ask of these witnesses at the moment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 17 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11209,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 419316,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:33"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 419320,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to item 2 on our agenda, evidence on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. We have asked a number of witnesses to come before us today and, despite the short notice, they have agreed to do so.I ask the witnesses from the British Medical Association to make themselves known, one by one, to the committee. We have received a helpful written submission from the BMA and I would like us to proceed to a question-and-answer session, rather than hearing lengthy statements. I invite members of the BMA to introduce themselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Michael Wilks (British Medical Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 419322,
      "EditedText": "My name is Dr Michael Wilks. I am currently chairman of the BMA's medical ethics committee. I chaired the working party that produced our most recent publication, \"Withholding and Withdrawing Life-prolonging Medical Treatment\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Bill O'Neill (British Medical Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 419323,
      "EditedText": "I am Bill O'Neill, a medical member of staff at the British Medical Association. I was previously a consultant in palliative medicine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 419324,
      "EditedText": "We welcome the opportunity to give evidence on this important issue. We welcome the main thrust of the bill and hope that we can assist the committee in three areas: the initiation and possible withdrawal of treatment in incompetent adults; the question of emergency treatment, where such treatment has to be initiated extremely rapidly; and in the area of research, where we have some concerns that the bill as it stands may cause difficulties in the processing of legitimate medical research in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 419329,
      "EditedText": "Section 44(2)(b) refers to \"ventilation, nutrition and hydration by artificial means\".We assume that that means the provision of nutrition and hydration by some mechanical means. We would not think that that includes oral nutrition and hydration. We are content with the wording of that section."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 419330,
      "EditedText": "Your statement says that, unlike the courts in England and Wales, the Scottish courts have made clear that it is not necessary to apply to them in every case where withdrawal of artificial nutrition and hydration is considered. Do you think that the Scottish way is the better way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 419334,
      "EditedText": "Although many areas of the bill address particular problems with much more clarity, we would not like to lose the pragmatic flexibility of the present legal situation in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 419336,
      "EditedText": "We have to be very careful. It is up to the people drafting the bill to ensure that it does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 419337,
      "EditedText": "You have presumably read the bill that has been introduced in Parliament, as it provides the basis on which you are giving evidence today. Are you satisfied that nothing in the bill cuts across your present flexibility?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 419340,
      "EditedText": "The bill introduces the power of advocacy and the introduction of a third party. I am talking about the role of the courts. Furthermore, given your comments, I want to explore the wider aspects of the powers of the doctor. I am particularly concerned that, in your submission—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C419341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 419341,
      "EditedText": "Can I make an intervention on that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 419342,
      "EditedText": "Richard, you are down on the list. If you wait, you will get your turn."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 419344,
      "EditedText": "You raise a very important point. However, that is a slightly separate issue that touches more on concerns about research than about active treatment.As for your first point, we have concerns about the role of the guardian or authority in a situation where such people may be at odds with doctors over medical treatment. As such, if the bill goes through without change, more limitations will apply than under the present legal position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 419346,
      "EditedText": "Without necessarily petitioning the courts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 419347,
      "EditedText": "Okay.On 3 November, Lynda Towers, from the Scottish Executive Office of the Solicitor, appeared before this committee and was asked whether hydration and sustenance withdrawal was possible under the bill. She said:\"If somebody seeks to withdraw nutrition and hydration, that will still have to be dealt with by petition to the Court of Session.\"—Official Report, Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 3 November 1999; c 276.Do you want to comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 419350,
      "EditedText": "Your interpretation seems to conflict with the one that we are getting from the solicitors to the Executive. Other witnesses who have appeared before us have their own interpretations of this provision. It is incumbent on the Parliament, and this committee in particular, to ensure that any legislation that we pass is robust and is not open to a series of interpretations. Can you think of a way in which the bill could be tightened up, or does it contain a fundamental flaw?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C419354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 419354,
      "EditedText": "The second issue applies to other forms of treatment. Do you think that the bill needs to be clarified on those issues, which seem almost to be taking over discussion of this legislation? Could not the bill be clarified so that the powers of welfare attorneys and guardians are made clear?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C419356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 419356,
      "EditedText": "But section 47(1) seems to say that it is the welfare attorney or guardian who will make decisions about ventilation, nutrition and hydration. Is that the basis of your concern, rather than the fact that someone should be making decisions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 419357,
      "EditedText": "No. A competent patient can refuse any treatment. It seems appropriate that a proxy for a patient could refuse that treatment. As Dr Wilks said, we are concerned that the proxy may not have to make clear the basis on which they are refusing treatment. However, we are happy with the subsequent subsection, which gives doctors the opportunity to apply to the Court of Session to overrule the decision of the proxy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C419358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 419358,
      "EditedText": "Am I right in saying that you do not think that the cases in which ventilation, nutrition or hydration can be withdrawn need to be written into the bill? A lot of the debate has been about persistent vegetative state, which is a controversial subject, but there are many points across the spectrum. Are you saying that the law is perfectly adequate on this matter? I understand where people are coming from when they criticise this bill, because it appears to open the gateway for a welfare attorney or guardian to make decisions about ventilation, nutrition and hydration outwith cases of PVS."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 419361,
      "EditedText": "An essential form of evidence would be some form of advance directive that specified the refusal of areas of treatment. As you will be aware, the only type of advance directive that carries any weight in law is one that specifically refuses treatment. It is essential that doctors are bound by those directives, as long as they are confident about two things: first, that the advance directive was made when the patient was competent; and, secondly, that the circumstances in the advance directive apply to the circumstances of the patient.Other forms of evidence could be statements made to other carers—such as a general practitioner, the family doctor or nursing team—when the patient was competent. That evidence would be important. Statements would not necessarily have to be written. For example, the family doctor could be called to provide confirmation of the patient's wishes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 419365,
      "EditedText": "The framework that we have produced for the withdrawal of artificial nutrition and hydration requires that, in those cases, the doctor obtain a second opinion from someone who is not connected with the case but who has expertise in the area. We feel that that should be a given, because that is the clinical and ethical advice that we are giving doctors.We are interested in the suggestion that proxies should be subject to a duty of care and should be able to demonstrate their responsibility. The BMA does not have a specific policy on that and has not discussed it, but we would certainly be interested in seeing how the duty of care could be reflected in a requirement on the proxy to demonstrate that he or she was acting in the patient's best interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C419366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 419366,
      "EditedText": "We have been discussing very serious cases in which the withdrawal of treatment would result in loss of life. However, there are many other cases in which there may be a dispute between the doctor and the prime carer or proxy. We do not want such cases to go to court, so we must think of some mechanism that will ensure that there is further discussion before those cases reach that point. We have had evidence from Alzheimer Scotland about the general treatment with drugs of patients with Alzheimer's disease. The Scottish intercollegiate guidelines network has certainly indicated that excessive treatment with neuroleptic drugs is relatively widespread. There may be some dispute about that, and I would like to know how we can promote the good practice that the BMA has talked about to make a resolution between—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C419368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 419368,
      "EditedText": "I would like to know how a resolution between the care team and the proxy could be established. That balance needs to be struck."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 419369,
      "EditedText": "The BMA in Scotland takes the view that, given the powers that are now in the hands of the proxy, there should be a requirement on that person for some duty of care. You have forgotten to mention ventilation, a matter that has not yet been addressed. There can be acute situations in which artificial ventilation has to be instituted immediately. I hope that that is covered by section 44(6), which states that medical treatment can be given\"for the preservation of the life . . . or the prevention of serious deterioration\".However, I am not confident that it is properly covered, in view of the powers given to the proxy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C419373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 419373,
      "EditedText": "What would the impact of the bill as it stands be on the practical day-to-day work of an intensive care unit? What is the implication for doctors doing their job in emergencies—after road traffic accidents, for example?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C419378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 419378,
      "EditedText": "I am thinking of cases in which, in the past, we did not have the same knowledge of drug treatments. Is there any study that could prove conclusively that treatments will be of benefit to patients?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 419381,
      "EditedText": "Yes, very much so. Given the powers that they are being given under the bill, it is very important that they have a duty of care that is enshrined in statute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 419383,
      "EditedText": "You say in your submission that section 48 appears to rule out any research that does not directly benefit the incapacitated person. Do you believe that research should be allowed that is not contrary to the interests of the incapacitated person? There is quite a difference there, so could you explain your thinking?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 419385,
      "EditedText": "As it is currently drafted, we believe that section 48 would inhibit research that is unlikely to produce real and direct benefit to the adult, according to section 48(3)(a). Someone who undertakes a research project that is unlikely to produce real and direct benefit to the adult should perhaps not be doing the research in the first place. However, limiting research to the subject alone restricts research that would help to examine the condition as well as the individual. We are unhappy about that. Such research need not be intrusive; it might be record based or minimally invasive.We are also unhappy about the final three words in section 48(3)(f), \"adult's nearest relative\". The concept of involving a close relative is not present in the aspects of the bill that deal with consent or the withdrawal or refusal of treatment. We are unhappy that an adult's nearest relative is written into the process in some parts of the bill, but not in others. We are not quite sure why relatives are mentioned there.My third point is about the ethics committee, which is dealt with in section 48(5). We fully support the involvement of local ethics research committees. We assume that the purpose of section 48(5) is to set up a new committee specifically to consider the question of research and incapacitated adults, but we would like clarification on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 419389,
      "EditedText": "I would have thought that that would be perfectly appropriate in that situation, but occasionally the time scale can be a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 419390,
      "EditedText": "In your submission, you say that you presume that such consent will be allowed. Would you like something to be written into the bill that confirms that that is the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 419391,
      "EditedText": "Off the cuff, my answer would be yes. That would be helpful for transplantation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 419395,
      "EditedText": "Richard Simpson brought up the duty of care. I have concerns about the limitation of liability in sections 73 and 74 in part 7 of the bill. There is no onus on the carer or proxy to go beyond the need to be reasonably satisfied that they acted in the best interests of the adult. There is no compulsion or responsibility for individuals to seek advice or to make informed decisions. They must only satisfy themselves that they have acted in accordance with part 1, which obviously is a less stringent level of responsibility than for a clinician. Are you concerned about that? Do you think that we should insert a recommendation that there should be a duty on the carer or proxy to make more of an informed choice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr O’Neill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 419396,
      "EditedText": "The only thing that we want to add to what has been said already is that we feel that that section was written with financial and other affairs in mind, rather than issues of medical treatment and welfare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 419399,
      "EditedText": "They might be on a different level in regard to clinical assessment, but they might have a lot to contribute on an assessment of the patient's wishes because they are close to the patient or are aware of the case. Our point is that that information needs to be offered in evidence to back up the refusal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Wilks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 419405,
      "EditedText": "That is sometimes the case, but the implication of the way that the statement is made is that those patients are in some way being abandoned. The doctor might foresee that the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration will result in the patient's death, but that does not mean stopping all palliative care, sedation or the treatment of symptoms. The process of dying is important to the management responsibilities of the doctor, and the nursing team is central to that.I suspect that the point behind your question is that doctors might make decisions about intentionally killing patients by withdrawing nutrition and hydration. The point that we made in our document, \"Withholding and Withdrawing Life-prolonging Medical Treatment\", is that a decision might be made that treatment such as artificial hydration is no longer giving a benefit to the patient and should therefore be withdrawn. The primary intention is not to kill the patient, but to withdraw a treatment that is no longer of benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C419406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 419406,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the patient will die, of course.To return to my first point, how many people come to hospital with any kind of indication that they have made a decision that, if they are in a terminal condition, they want treatment to be withdrawn?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 419407,
      "EditedText": "I am not aware of any direct research into that but, in my experience, it would be extremely unusual for someone to arrive in hospital with an advance directive. In the acute sector, to which you referred, such a thing would be of extremely little practical benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C419408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 419408,
      "EditedText": "And in the long-term sector?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 419409,
      "EditedText": "That is different. If it became normal practice to have an advance directive, the practice would expand. At the moment, it is not a major influence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 419410,
      "EditedText": "I thank the witnesses for their patience with the questions. If you have the time, you are welcome to stay on and listen to the evidence from the other witnesses. We expect to take evidence until about quarter-past 11.Will the witnesses from the Royal College of Nursing please introduce themselves? One of the witnesses will give a short opening statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 419414,
      "EditedText": "We will go straight on to questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 419422,
      "EditedText": "That is a good question. Nurses must at all times act according to that code and in the interests of patients. You would not find a nurse in the country who will stand back and not deliver the most basic level of nursing care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 419425,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 6.1 of your submission seems to indicate that you are worried about the withdrawal of life-sustaining measures. You say that hospital practice does not seem to be following legal principle, which is at odds with what the BMA has said. Can you expand on that comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 419428,
      "EditedText": "In order to act in the interests of patients and to protect professionals involved in the delivery of care, we want to ensure that those professionals are acting within the law and are not liable to prosecution if their actions are detrimental to patient care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 419429,
      "EditedText": "So you are more worried about the legal responsibility of nurses than anything else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 419430,
      "EditedText": "We are worried about both aspects. Although our job is to ensure that nurses act at all times in the interests of patients, at the same time nurses must protect their own professional status."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 419431,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that you have had particular legal advice that suggests that the current practice in Scotland ought not to be happening. However, the issue of legal advice aside, would the RCN prefer to continue with the reality of a flexible approach instead of imposing on the system an insistence that every case must go to court?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 419432,
      "EditedText": "That is a very good question. Every case should be taken on its own merits and decisions should be based on the patient's needs and on whether we are acting in their best interests at the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rea Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 419441,
      "EditedText": "Yes. If any nurse thought that any prescription should not be carried out, they would report that to the doctor for a review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 419444,
      "EditedText": "What is the status of the professional code of conduct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C419446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 419446,
      "EditedText": "I would like you to clarify something in your submission. The word \"benefit\" is used in the bill, but you suggest that the term \"best interests\" be reintroduced. What is the difference?You also suggest that the term \"medical treatment\" be replaced by \"clinical treatment\"; What would be gained by that change?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 419451,
      "EditedText": "I want to allow you to put on record your concern that the assessment of incapacity is currently, in effect, being left to doctors. It is your view that there should be nursing input, because in some cases it may be nurses who have had most contact with patients. Also, the BMA has expressed to us its wish to see specific evidence in support of any welfare attorney's decision that treatment should not be given. Can you elaborate on those two points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 419454,
      "EditedText": "We would hope to put in place a mechanism to ensure that anyone acting on the patient's behalf, if outside a professional field, takes soundings from the professionals who are directly involved in the delivery of care, and that that advice is considered in planning any further treatment for the patient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 419456,
      "EditedText": "We would like to see direct involvement with the professionals providing the care, but a mechanism should perhaps be in place to ensure that a balance is reached in making the decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 419458,
      "EditedText": "Rea could perhaps pick up the first point, on \"clinical treatment\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C419460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 419460,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that the attorney would not have adequate knowledge and would not be able to make such decisions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rea Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 419461,
      "EditedText": "That is possible, but, in our opinion, our proposal would safeguard the patient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C419464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 419464,
      "EditedText": "If subsection 44(2)(b) was passed with no alterations, do you think that there would be a considerable increase in the number of cases in which artificial feeding or the provision of fluids is removed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 419465,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I could answer that question at this time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C419466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 419466,
      "EditedText": "I gather from your evidence—correct me if I am wrong—that it is the nurses who spend most time with the patients, but who are most excluded from the process. The doctors may not see the patient often, but they have a major decision to make, as do the welfare attorney, relatives and others. Is your main concern that nurses should be involved in the decision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C419470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 419470,
      "EditedText": "At the end of the day, it would be the nurses who had to see the patients through the 10 or 14 days—or however long it took them to die—following the withdrawal of fluids and artificial feeding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 419471,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 419472,
      "EditedText": "We have tended to concentrate on part 5 of the bill, but part 4 would also have a significant effect on nurses. It refers to the management of patients' or residents' finances in residential or nursing homes. You have already indicated the importance of patient-nurse relationships. Do you have any concerns about nurses being caught up in the effects of part 4?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 419473,
      "EditedText": "For quite a number of years, nurses have been responsible, at ward or nursing home level, for the management of patients' funds. In the case of incapax patients on psychiatric wards, for example, the charge nurse often has the responsibility of ensuring that some of their money is spent in the interests of the patients. That is sometimes, perhaps, an inappropriate burden to place on nurses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 419476,
      "EditedText": "Would the RCN be in favour of proxies being given a duty of care, along with the other professionals who are mentioned in the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 419478,
      "EditedText": "They would have a duty, for example, to seek and to take medical and nursing advice. At the moment, proxies are required only to act in the interests of the patient. If they were given a specific duty of care in the same way that professionals are, would that go some way towards allaying some of the concerns over the withdrawal of basic nursing care, for example?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rea Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 419479,
      "EditedText": "We would like attorneys to take advice from professionals. I might add that in practice, and certainly in my experience, the best decisions are made when relatives—or next of kin—and professionals take decisions together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 419488,
      "EditedText": "Several witnesses have encouraged us to look at introducing a duty of care for the proxy or welfare attorney. What do you think about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419494",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 419494,
      "EditedText": "We have been concentrating on the medical and care aspects of the bill. My original understanding of the bill was that it was to look at the life management of individuals and to move away from the costs of curators bonis to give individuals the right to manage an incapable adult's affairs. If you have had a chance to look at the other parts of the bill, do you feel that it achieves its original aims and have you any concerns?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 419496,
      "EditedText": "So, you have not really analysed the detail of other parts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 419497,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C419498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 419498,
      "EditedText": "All the examples that have been given today have been based on the scenario in which a doctor wants to give medical treatment but the welfare attorney or guardian does not want that treatment to be given. What is the situation if the reverse happens—if a doctor wants to withhold treatment and the relative, or whoever it is, wants it to be given? That would include decisions about hydration, nutrition and ventilation. Do you think that the bill will alter the situation, in those circumstances?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 419499,
      "EditedText": "My understanding of the current legal position is that no doctor or other health care provider can be obliged by anyone else to provide treatment if doing so is against his or her professional judgment. The existence of another person with some kind of authority would be insufficient to override the clinical decisions of the health care providers.The paradox is that, if the reverse happens and the doctor wants to give the treatment but the other proxy person—a spouse or another relative—does not want it to be given, the doctor's views would, in most circumstances, override the other's. One of the things that concerns me is the extent to which the bill appears to be trying to give considerable powers to relatives. I have two concerns about that. First, this is a novel situation in law, as that is the kind of problem that is being tackled. Secondly, people have traditionally misunderstood the role of relatives in the provision or refusal of consent. Unless we spell that out clearly, that kind of misunderstanding might be perpetuated. Organ donation is the clearest example. Although the legal position is that somebody has said in advance that they want their organs to be removed or there is no reason to believe that they would have objected to it, it is still practice to invite relatives to comment on whether organs should be removed. That is perhaps a humane thing to do, but it is the result of a fundamental misunderstanding of what the law requires. We must clarify exactly what powers we are handing over to relatives. There might be confidential information that clinicians would otherwise not want a relative to know, which they might have to disclose if that person has a significant power.Your second question was about the extent to which the bill, if enacted, would change current practice. My suspicion is that its terms fit quite clearly into what doctors and nurses already think of as good practice. Practice may not change dramatically, but the bill might provide health care workers with the reassurance that what they are doing is lawful as well as good practice. That is something that people have felt has been missing for some time. I do not imagine that there will be radical changes in practice, but I would like to think that health care providers will feel more comfortable, and that they will be working within a framework that they understand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C419500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11211,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 419500,
      "EditedText": "I would like you to clarify the position. We are all agreed that, in the bill, the welfare attorney or guardian will have a significant power in the withholding of treatment. Are you saying that they will have no powers in demanding treatment, including hydration, nutrition and ventilation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 419503,
      "EditedText": "Certainly. It goes back to the example that I gave. The relationship between individual members of the community is such that there is a clear distinction between an act and an omission. That is the legal order—one is not obliged to go to someone's aid, but one is obliged not to harm them. The difference with a professional relationship is that the nature of that relationship establishes a duty of care, the core content of which is that one is as responsible for one's omissions as for one's acts. Out on the street, there is a difference between acts and omissions, whereas in the peculiar nature of the professional's duty of care to the client or patient, an omission is as culpable as an act. That has been the legal position for a long time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 419510,
      "EditedText": "Professor, you will have heard my question to the BMA on the limitation of liability in section 73 of the bill. I want to return to the point about duty of care. Would you be satisfied that that limited liability puts enough pressure for the person responsible to be informed, to their satisfaction, about the benefit to their charge of any intervention, as under section 1(2)?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 419513,
      "EditedText": "One could certainly ask for a second opinion.A relevant question that we have not touched on is who decides that a person is incapable. People have quietly accepted—the bill certainly seems to accept it—that the decision on whether somebody is incapable for these purposes is made by the clinician. I suggest—this relates to the issue of a second opinion—that there are fine decisions to be taken about incapacity. Some decisions are obvious—for example, when the patient is unconscious. Other patients, as my colleague from the Royal College of Nursing mentioned, may have capacity in some areas but not in others. Radically, I think that lawyers and not doctors should decide on capacity in grey areas, as incapacity is a legal, not a medical, concept. It might be that, to ensure that a decision is properly reached, one would want to take a second opinion from somebody who did not come from the health care professions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 419517,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it could be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C419518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 419518,
      "EditedText": "On that issue, would it be sufficient in the guidance to require the proxy to seek further advice or to demonstrate evidence to back their decision? We have to find some midway course. I think that I accept that a duty of care would not be appropriate, but we have to find some way of putting a greater onus on the attorney than is allowed under the bill at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor McLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 419521,
      "EditedText": "I rather like the way in which the section on research is phrased. However, my medical colleagues have some difficulties with it, because they believe that it will limit research. The section is much closer to the Nuremberg code—the initial international agreement about the use of human subjects in research—than it is to the Helsinki declaration, which is the principal ethical guidance nowadays and which permits proxy consent for research. I think that I am right in saying that the Helsinki declaration does not even outlaw non-therapeutic research. The Nuremberg code, however, makes it clear that someone can be involved in research only if they can give free and informed consent. The partial move towards allowing research in circumstances in which the individual is unable to do that is a reasonably satisfactory compromise between the absolute position and the need to find ways of improving diagnosis and treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C419522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 419522,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that that would allow, for example, genetic research with minimally invasive procedures and randomised, controlled trials with a placebo?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 419526,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I have one other point of clarification. You threw in at one point your view that you would like a decision on incapacity taken not by the doctors and clinicians but by somebody independent—a lawyer, for example. We have not had ample opportunity to explore that. You probably heard the evidence from the Royal College of Nursing, which would like the involvement of one person who is independent from the hospital institution or the day-to-day care team. Would you see that as a compromise? Would it satisfy you that an independent person would be involved as well as the clinician, or do you hold to your view that the decision should be taken out of the hands of the medical profession completely?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2549242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11211,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 419528,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Professor McLean, for coming at relatively short notice."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C419530",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 419530,
      "EditedText": "Mike will speak first."
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  {
    "ID": "C419534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
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      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Dailly (Govan Law Centre): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 419534,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. It may be helpful for me to give a brief introduction to my background and to set out my legal perspective. I am the principal solicitor of Govan law centre, which is a community-controlled legal resource. For the past five and a half years, I have specialised in social welfare law in Scotland. The client base at Govan law centre consists of people with varying degrees of multiple debt. Typically, they are threatened with eviction actions, actions of payment and poindings and warrant sales. Many of our clients live in inadequate housing conditions—with damp, disrepair and overcrowding—and the majority live in poverty. That is my background.I understand that the Scottish Executive has asked the Scottish Law Commission to reconsider whether its 1985 conclusions on to why poindings and warrant sales should not be abolished remain valid. I will briefly address those conclusions.The Scottish Law Commission's main conclusion was that, rather than abolish poindings and warrant sales, it would be better to make this form of diligence more humane. In essence, that is what the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 attempts to do by creating categories of exempted goods that cannot be poinded in certain circumstances. However, in my experience, that act often provides no protection for people in respect of poindings and warrant sales, because of the way in which such actions operate in practice. At present, many sheriff officers use poindings and warrant sales as a sword of Damocles to extract lump sums from people on low incomes. I will give members an example that I dealt with last week at Govan law centre. A young disabled woman had arrears of £255 in council tax and she offered to pay back £5 per week. Sheriff officers rejected that offer and said that she must pay £75 up front. The woman was living on incapacity benefit of £80 per week. The value of the goods that were poinded in her house was only £77. It was impossible for her to pay that lump sum. That example illustrates how the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 can provide no protection in certain circumstances. It also illustrates one of the ironies of warrant sales. Those people who would block Mr Sheridan's bill say that the abolition of poindings and warrant sales would result in a return to unscrupulous debt collection and money lending. In my experience, many people would have to go to a moneylender to get the lump sum to prevent a warrant sale. Money lending is alive and well in Scotland. It flourishes in those communities where poverty is rife.It is important to recognise that unscrupulous forms of debt collection are commonplace in Scotland. We have circulated to committee members an article by the Scottish Legal Action Group describing an investigation into doorstep debt collecting in Scotland. People go to people's doors, intimidating and humiliating them and coercing them into handing over money. That happens all the time.I also want to highlight the fact that some councils, such as Glasgow City Council, have unofficial, or secret, policies of no warrant sales. I would ask: is it humane to intimidate poor people into paying lump sums, when there is no intention of carrying out the warrant sale in the first place? In any other situation, we would call that fraud. Another important conclusion that the Scottish Law Commission reached in 1985 was that the abolition of warrant sales would tempt debtors to convert funds into moveable goods. I find that assertion naive and offensive to my client base. The conclusion proceeds on the basis that, if poor people get the chance, they will cheat. That is simply untrue. In my experience, the majority of people are good citizens who want to pay their debts; the problem is that they do not have the money to do so. The minority of people who are unscrupulous will escape the threat of poinding or warrant sale because they will hide or dispose of their goods. Such people are not affected by the current legal position, because they are devious anyway.The Scottish Law Commission took the view that it was a fundamental principle that people who could pay their debts should be required to do so by law. That assertion proceeds on the basis that people who can pay will not pay. Again, in my experience at Govan law centre, that is not the case. It is instructive to consider the findings of the Scottish Executive, which are set out in the financial memorandum to Mr Sheridan's bill and which support that point.If the bill was to become law, the reform would be self-contained, although many further reforms would be needed in the area of debt and diligence. Other forms of diligence would be effective: one can have deductions from income support or arrestments can be taken from people's wages. In West Dunbartonshire, the council, which operates a policy of no warrant sales, maximises people's income. That is very effective.Last year, there were 23,000 poindings, only 6,000 of which were non-summary warrant poindings. That means that 17,000 people could not get a time-to-pay order, because that would not be competent and could not recall the warrant sale if it was unduly harsh. It is right for me to flag up the fact that, when the Human Rights Act 1998 comes into force in, I think, October next year, Govan law centre and other law centres will seek to challenge the competence of the summary warrant procedure under article 6 of the convention.I would like to thank the convener for giving me the chance to address the committee."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419537",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
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      "EditedText": "Can you move on a bit, Tommy? The Law Society will be giving evidence and you will, of course, be entitled to question their representatives."
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  {
    "ID": "C419540",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Dailly: ",
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      "EditedText": "In the Mary Ritchie case to which Tommy referred we lodged an application in court. The only thing that can be done with a summary warrant is to say that it is invalid, which is what we tried to say. However, we managed to negotiate the case with Glasgow City Council. We are trying to use the convention now but, to be honest, I think that we will be unsuccessful because of recent cases—in Scotland it was the case of T, Petitioner. The courts can have regard to the convention, but it is not directly applicable. Once it comes into force, it will be possible to found challenges directly on the convention."
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  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419541",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is what I do not understand. The convention is currently in force in Scotland in regard to devolved matters under the Scotland Act 1998. Perhaps there is an issue there that needs to be explored. My understanding was that the ECHR was in force in Scotland in regard to devolved matters and that it is applicable in Scots law."
    },
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  {
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    "Person": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
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      "EditedText": "I am still interested in what would replace warrant sales. I am working on the assumption that warrant sales are blunt instruments that do not achieve anything and that have no place in how we deal with matters. No lawyer likes them in that sense. However, I am still a little worried about what would replace them. You say that there are other options, for example, arrestments, but I imagine that, by and large, warrant sales are not the first option for people who are owed money.Most creditors would arrest wages, if they could, rather than initiate a poinding and warrant sale. The warrant sale is a fallback position, a course of last resort for someone who is owed money. Tommy Sheridan is right to say that it is used as a threat. The reason that it does not happen in Newton Mearns is that there the threat works. People are told that the Mercedes in their driveway will be poinded, and they make other arrangements.Linked to that in my mind is the slight fear, which Tommy dismisses, that, unless the fallback position of a warrant sale is there, many ordinary folk who would be able to pay their way will not get credit. What would Tommy have as a last resort? How, for example, would he feel about attaching benefit? He made the point that people are not allowed to pay off a small amount of their debt, say £5, each week. I agree that that is a nonsense. If someone says that they are prepared to pay a fiver a week, it is ludicrous to poind their property rather than permit them to do that. However, if benefits are the only source of such payments, how would Tommy feel about a small proportion of them being set aside, by agreement, for the repayment of debt?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419547",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
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      "EditedText": "I was not making an argument; I was asking a question. I am seriously trying to clarify this matter."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
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      "EditedText": "None of us can disagree with the arguments that Tommy Sheridan has made in the cases that he described today. It is a nonsense to take property away from people who have virtually nothing. However, my impression is that warrants go further than that. Use is made of them in the business community. Last week, I stopped a warrant sale proceeding in a case where a businessman who had been pursued by the Inland Revenue for a long time had adamantly refused to pay. Under the threat of the warrant, he came up with a satisfactory payment formula. It seems that the public sector—the Inland Revenue, Customs and Excise, the councils—uses warrant sales frequently."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 419551,
      "EditedText": "The individual that I referred to was not involved in the benefit stream. He has a business and he has some cash flow. He refused to pay but is now paying."
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  {
    "ID": "C419552",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Dailly: ",
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      "EditedText": "If warrant sales were to be applied to some people but not to others, there would be a debate about how to define the categories and, doubtless, inequalities would result."
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  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419553",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
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      "EditedText": "Perhaps the categories of those against whom warrant sales could be carried out and those against whom they could not be carried out could be based on debt levels and value of property. Those things are already taken into account, to a degree."
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  {
    "ID": "C419554",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Dailly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
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      "EditedText": "If the bill proceeds, some people will win and some will lose. A political judgment must be made about what is acceptable. Does Parliament want to proceed with the bill as a matter of principle?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
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      "EditedText": "We should perhaps call representatives of the Inland Revenue before us.Glasgow City Council has written in support of your bill. However, Castlemilk Law Centre's submission shows that councils are perhaps most at fault in this area, as you have already acknowledged. Is not it a bit hypocritical of Glasgow City Council to support your bill when it is carrying out poindings and warrant sales?"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ID": 11212,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 419563,
      "EditedText": "I agree with you 100 per cent. That is why I keep emphasising that this is not the final chapter on credit or debt management in Scotland. I spoke at the Money Advice Scotland conference a few weeks ago, where there were people from citizens advice bureaux and other money advice centres who are working in that area. I asked them to make suggestions—either to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee for a bill, or to an individual MSP who could promote a member's bill. I agree that other reforms are needed, although you will understand that I am keen that this reform should go through, because the removal of poindings and warrant sales in itself is a worthwhile reform. It is not the final chapter, but it is a worthwhile reform.Your specific point about bank accounts must be addressed. The problem with a bank account freeze is that it takes no account whatever of outgoings. A person's mortgage, furniture loan—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ID": 11212,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 419564,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to ask you about that, because—as far as I understand it—the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987 left the banks with carte blanche to be first in the queue, and put no upper limit on what they could take. There is a concern that, on the day that warrant sales are abolished, creditors will look for other methods of enforcement. The power of the banks especially concerns me. In cases where people have bank accounts, banks are first in the queue to recover debt; and if a bank account is frozen, there is no upper limit on what the bank can take."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11212,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 419566,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that, if we abolish warrant sales, there will be a greater emphasis on bank accounts being frozen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419580",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Dailly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 419580,
      "EditedText": "I agree that advice can make a difference. There are a tremendous number of high-quality advice agencies throughout Scotland.It should be emphasised that the protections contained in the 1987 act do not apply in the vast bulk of cases, because they are handled under summary warrant.I want to cut to the chase regarding the purpose of warrant sales and poindings. They are not just about getting people to pay their debts, but about creating a preferential claim. They are a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Poindings and warrant sales are being used to get lump sums out of people, rather than small amounts. Is it not an anomaly that local authorities and businesses agree that they will not carry out warrant sales, but are happy to fraudulently misrepresent them to demand lump sums? That cannot be the way to run a system of diligence in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 419581,
      "EditedText": "That concludes questions for the moment. I emphasise to everybody that three committees, the Social Inclusion, Housing and the Voluntary Sector Committee, the Local Government Committee, and this committee, are taking evidence for the bill. The division of responsibility will be communicated to everybody, including to you, Tommy Sheridan, so that you understand clearly what evidence is being heard by which committee and will be able to give your input where you feel that it is most appropriate. We will advise everybody once we have the dates for the meetings at which the other committees will hear evidence. This is simply the start of the process.The committee still has one remaining item on the agenda. We are running seriously behind time, so we will press on, but I make the point that some of our business this morning was put on the agenda at the request of members of the committee. It is difficult to find time to take extra evidence if members do not exercise a little restraint over the length of questions. Some questions have been more like personal statements than questions. That can create difficulties when we have rejigged agendas to include as much as possible. We are now 20 minutes behind schedule. This meeting is supposed to close at 12.30 pm. We can run over by 10 minutes, but that is the maximum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ContributionID": 419582,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the witnesses who are here to give evidence for the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill. I understand that, for unavoidable reasons, there is a change to the witnesses who are named on the agenda. The Scottish Land Reform Convention is an umbrella group, which comprises a number of smaller groups. I will ask somebody to give a brief explanation of how that works. We were supposed to have Alison Elliot of Action of Churches Together in Scotland, but I understand that Graham Blount is here instead, because she is stuck in Brussels. We have Gavin Corbett from Shelter, and Jim Lugton from the Scottish Council of Voluntary Organisations. Andy Wightman, who gave evidence on an earlier occasion, is here too.Could you give a brief explanation of how the Scottish Land Reform Convention works, given that each witness represents a slightly different organisation? We will then go straight to questions. Thank you for your written submission. That will help to focus our attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2861709+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419584",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 552.0,
      "ContributionID": 419584,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the matter of abolishing the ultimate superiority of the Crown, on which we had evidence last week, from Robin Callander and Professor Rennie. I was rather taken back by Professor Rennie's total dismissal of the idea; he thought that there was no practical use for it. Does Andy Wightman have any response to that?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419592",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ContributionID": 419592,
      "EditedText": "Could you spell out exactly what you mean by the adverse consequences for such bodies as the Corstorphine Trust?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419595",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 575.0,
      "ContributionID": 419595,
      "EditedText": "So, you do not think that the way to advance or safeguard the civic interest is through what you call a democratically elected body such as the Corstorphine Trust. Rather, you think that that should be done through democratically elected bodies, such as the Scottish Parliament or City of Edinburgh Council, which have a civic interest in how land is dealt with."
    },
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  },
  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wightman: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes, but it is a matter of concern if superiority interests might no longer be available to a body that owns them, although they are not held to benefit the body individually for profit but are held for the benefit of the community as a whole. It would be of particular concern if the body were democratically elected. The matter goes to the substance of the bill, not the wider issues about protection from the Parliament. The Parliament will have to ensure that the implications of burdens that are being conserved—and, possibly, those that are not being conserved—are fully explored. Our argument is that they have not been fully explored, as the consultation process has been inadequate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419598",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 581.0,
      "ContributionID": 419598,
      "EditedText": "Mr Lugton, please could you give more specific references? You talked about a previous statement by Jim Wallace, for example."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C419599",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Lugton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 583.0,
      "ContributionID": 419599,
      "EditedText": "I can provide that."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419602",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 589.0,
      "ContributionID": 419602,
      "EditedText": "Can I take up Andy Wightman's invitation to bring in Gavin Corbett of Shelter? Perhaps Gavin can outline Shelter's concern and interest in the bill."
    },
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  },
  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gavin Corbett (Scottish Land Reform Convention): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 591.0,
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      "EditedText": "We have some questions about the process. Our organisation was not one of those that received a letter from the Executive about the bill, and that puzzled me. Andy Wightman referred to burdens. It is unclear why the bill specifically includes conservation burdens, when there has been a lively debate in the past 15 years—particularly in rural areas—about ensuring that much-needed affordable housing is maintained as a public asset. I am talking not about adverse consequences, but about the potential of the land tenure system. There is a distinction between housing in an open market and housing for social need. I would have hoped that we could talk about that as part of this process. We might consider a burden related to social housing. That is not adequately covered by the current planning and financial systems. That potential has not been fully explored, and I am not clear when it will be."
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 611.0,
      "ContributionID": 419612,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ID": 11213,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 613.0,
      "ContributionID": 419613,
      "EditedText": "I thank the witnesses for coming. You are free to do what Land Reform Scotland has done and give us another written submission on the basis of the evidence so far. We are reading those submissions and absorbing the various points.Thank you for coming; you will no doubt follow the issue with interest.I have already indicated what will happen next week. We have rejigged the agenda and will have further discussions on the prisons issue as we have found space for that. In the next few days, I hope that members will get a copy of the first draft report on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. The input of the Health and Community Care Committee is yet to come, but by next week members will have a draft report before them. We will work through that as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2386
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11213,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ID": 11213,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 615.0,
      "ContributionID": 419614,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:35."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.8486572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 17 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 285821,
      "EditedText": "I thank the Justice and Home Affairs Committee for allowing us to take part in its deliberations with the British Medical Association, the Royal College of Nursing and Professor McLean at short notice. That was useful for us. I intend the committee to take item 2 on today's agenda first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 285823,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that, when we consider the Stracathro petition at the meeting on 24 November, we agree to meet in private for the first 15 minutes, at 9.15 am, to discuss how we will question the witnesses who will be in attendance. They will be from Tayside Health Board, Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust, Brechin and District Patients Association, the Stracathro hospital staff action committee and Angus and Mearns Action to Save Stracathro. Two of those parties will attend jointly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 285828,
      "EditedText": "When was that decision made?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7557,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 285829,
      "EditedText": "I cannot remember whether it was formally put on record that any member wanted to challenge that fact. I circulated an e-mail to members, the vast majority of whom said that they were happy for the meeting to be held in Edinburgh, although one or two said that we should consider going to the Brechin area. I went ahead with that as a convener's decision; I do not think that it ever came before the committee. Had the majority of members intimated by e-mail that they wanted the meeting to be in Brechin, I would probably have had to bring the matter before the committee. I did not do so because they did not so intimate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 285830,
      "EditedText": "I do not recall ever being given a choice about where the meeting should be held."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 285832,
      "EditedText": "I remember expressing an interest in participating, as I thought that it was a unique opportunity for us to go out and meet the people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7557,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 285833,
      "EditedText": "An e-mail was circulated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 285838,
      "EditedText": "That is a useful clarification. It allows us to continue to have an input."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 285840,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. However, we have received clarification only in the past 10 or 15 minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 285843,
      "EditedText": "Because we were approaching the bill with what appeared to be an impossible timetable, there seemed to be an element of panic in our approach, rather than measured scrutiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285845",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 285845,
      "EditedText": "We discussed some of the points in the report yesterday. Rather than going over what we discussed then, do you have a note of our areas of concern?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 285846,
      "EditedText": "Everybody now has the Official Report of yesterday's meeting."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285854",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 285854,
      "EditedText": "Richard raised the issue. There could be a need for further clarification. What about on-going treatment? Putting up a drip or taking a blood sample could be seen as interventionist, but that is often part of day-to-day treatment. Do we expect doctors constantly to talk to proxies to find out whether it is okay to do that? As far as I remember, that covers the broad sweep of what we said. The only other thing was Europe. We have had some clarification on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285849",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 285849,
      "EditedText": "We mentioned research."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 285851,
      "EditedText": "The issue of managing the funds of incapable patients was raised by the Mental Welfare Commission, which suggested that health boards should assume the role. The problems in residential establishments were also mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 285852,
      "EditedText": "I mentioned that briefly yesterday, but as we did not consider it in any great detail, I am happy for members to comment on it.The other issue, which I raised with the BMA this morning, but on which the committee did not have a final view, was emergencies. Richard Simpson referred to that yesterday. What is the impact on emergency treatment? The BMA representatives seemed quite clear that if there was a road traffic accident, the patient would be treated. Doctors do not wait to find out who is the next of kin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 285860,
      "EditedText": "I think that the point was being made that medical treatment is an old-fashioned term now that there is a team approach. However, we must not get hung up on the fact that medical treatment is just nurses; it is also physiotherapists and—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 285861,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is much more than a single decision being taken by a single doctor. It is much more of a team decision. The BMA made that point as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 285863,
      "EditedText": "Convener, is this a stage 2 point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 285864,
      "EditedText": "It probably is, but because we had the discussion that we had yesterday, I think that we should put the work that we have done to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 285866,
      "EditedText": "If you do that, you run into significant dangers. I think that we should remove the word \"medical\" and leave it as \"treatment\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 285868,
      "EditedText": "At this stage, stage 1, we should inform the Justice and Home Affairs Committee that, after listening to points that have been made to us in submissions, we feel that this is an area in which there may be a difficulty. If we feel that we want to do a specific piece of work on it, we can do that at stage 2.Also not covered yesterday, and not in Ben's report, are exclusions to the general capacity to treat. Those will be dealt with by regulation, rather than by measures in the bill. The BMA has said that it wants to ensure that such things are open to consultation. I do not think that I want to say any more than that, because this issue concerns aspects that are not in the bill; for example, advances in medical techniques. However, we should not lose sight of the fact that there are exclusions. Some of those are covered by the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984, but there are other very important areas such as sterilisation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 285871,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. I would also like to raise my concern about a possible conflict between the attorney's decision and the best clinical judgment. Given what Ben Wallace said about the fact that the present arrangements leave many incapable adults open to financial and medical abuse, I was uncomfortable when Sheila McLean said that incapacity was a legal definition rather than a medical one. I would like the situation clarified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 285877,
      "EditedText": "Many of us shared Margaret Jamieson's reaction to the comment about incapacity being a legal definition rather than a medical one. We want the welfare attorney to have a greater duty of care. Taking into account what Sheila McLean said, the Justice and Home Affairs Committee has a difficult issue to deal with. I think that we all agree that the second opinion that we were talking about should be a medical opinion, not a legal one. Part of what the bill seeks to achieve is to take the law out of whether someone can have access to their cheque book."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 285878,
      "EditedText": "In many ways, it was the input of the legal profession that caused the problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 285879,
      "EditedText": "That is why I raised the issue of limited liability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 285881,
      "EditedText": "At this stage, the committee can point out to the Justice and Home and Affairs Committee that we would like it to consider the question of backing up the welfare attorney either with a second opinion or with a secondary welfare attorney. Beyond that, we are into stage 2 territory."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 285886,
      "EditedText": "You can state them for the record again if you want to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 285888,
      "EditedText": "It is called being human. Doctors do not spend six years in training to make themselves six times better at guessing than proxies are. That is what the BMA was saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 285889,
      "EditedText": "Doctors have a duty of care and, if they get it wrong, their professional organisation or the General Medical Council will step in to protect the public. I am convinced that we cannot impose a duty of care on the proxy. Legally, that would be too difficult. Professor McLean's example of not needing to intervene in an assault case gave us a good parallel. We should find some way of asking the Executive to reconsider amending section 47 to ensure that the proxy takes further advice.The balance of the evidence that we have received indicates that the fiduciary care and other elements that are referred to in section 73 on liabilities are not sufficient to require the individual, even acting in good faith, to seek a further opinion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 285896,
      "EditedText": "Ben's report mentions the Millan committee. A number of the submissions mention the fact that Millan is likely to come up with new definitions of mental disorder and nearest relative—as a nominated person, for example. When is Millan due to report—in January?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 285901,
      "EditedText": "We should indicate to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee that we want it to consider two aspects of the definition of an adult with incapacity: first, the fact that Millan has not yet reported; and secondly, the point that Ben made in his report about the matter not being clear-cut. Ben also raised the issue—which was further highlighted by the BMA—of temporary incapacity. The example used was that of a Saturday night in an accident and emergency department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 285902,
      "EditedText": "We also need to flag up the definition of nearest relative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 285904,
      "EditedText": "The suggestion is that the Millan committee's definition of an incapable adult will just slot into the bill. What happens if Millan arrives at a definition of a partially capable adult? Where would such a person fit into the incapable adults bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 285910,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty is that different pieces of legislation might define an adult as either 16 or 18. We need to be consistent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 285913,
      "EditedText": "As a rule of thumb, is not a 16-year-old an adult?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 285918,
      "EditedText": "If the individual is able to make, communicate and remember decisions and can thereby give informed consent, there is no age specification. As a result, doctors, nurses and social workers—all of whom have a duty of care—must determine from discussions with an individual whether that individual can give informed consent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 285919,
      "EditedText": "My instinct is to pass the matter to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee; it is a can of worms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 285921,
      "EditedText": "As for hospital placements, age should not be an issue when it comes to cut-offs, which, unfortunately, vary with the individual and the availability of beds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 285924,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Malcolm. People get concerned when they hear the world \"euthanasia\" and, bearing in mind Malcolm's comments, people's concerns about the possibility of the bill leaving options open and what we heard this morning, it is right that we flag that up. If the Executive wants a bill that allows euthanasia and living wills, it should produce one. However, if the Executive does not want euthanasia and living wills to have primacy over other considerations, we must ensure that the bill does not allow that to happen. It is reasonable that we flag up our concerns and our need for clarification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 285926,
      "EditedText": "From statements made by the First Minister, the Deputy First Minister and the Executive, from explanatory notes, from the policy documents on the bill and from sections of the bill, we can say confidently that it is not the bill's intention to allow euthanasia and living wills. However, we could also say that concerns are being raised because some of the provisions give rise to a need for greater clarification, which, in some cases, may require only the insertion of a single sentence. Although it is not our job at this stage, we should say that it must be made crystal clear that that is not the bill's intention.Roseanna Cunningham picked up on Professor McLean's point that, in a perfect world, everyone would always agree and we would not need the bill. In a perfect world, there would be no ambiguity about legislation. However, the reality is that someone will stand up in court and argue about the bill's provisions in a few years' time. This is our chance to try to get rid of any ambiguity and to have our concerns addressed. In a few years' time, someone's life will be on the line."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 285934,
      "EditedText": "So the committee agrees the general principles of the bill and that there is a need for the legislation. However, we also want to flag up concerns, against the backdrop of our view that the bill does not intend to leave front or back doors open to the worse excesses that people are concerned about. Our stage 1 submission will include the statement that we want that matter clarified to allay people's concerns. Do all members of the committee share that view?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 285935,
      "EditedText": "That concludes our discussions on the bill, unless anyone has a burning desire to add further comments.I ask members to make one final decision. Do members agree to delegate powers to me, as convener, working with Ben, as reporter, to make the changes to his report? We will take into account the comments made by the committee at yesterday's and today's meetings, as reported in the Official Report, so that we can make our submission to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee on time. Are members agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 17 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 285820,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:26"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 285822,
      "EditedText": "This instrument comes under the negative procedure. No motion has been lodged to recommend that nothing further be done under the instrument. After consideration of the instrument, the Subordinate Legislation Committee determined that the attention of Parliament need not be drawn to it. Therefore, I suggest that nothing be done with the instrument. Is the committee agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 285831,
      "EditedText": "Was an e-mail not circulated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 285837,
      "EditedText": "As members know, at stage 1 the committee is to consider the general principles—the overarching concept—of the bill, rather than to examine individual details. The documents that should be examined are the policy memorandum and explanatory note, which outline the consultation period for the bill and the policy behind it. The committee is called on to decide whether the bill is necessary and whether it fulfils its aims. The finer detail can be considered at stage 2, when the committee will examine the bill section by section. Amendments to the bill can be lodged at that stage. If the committee is minded to make comments or lodge amendments, there is nothing to stop it having the convener lodge an amendment, which individual members of the committee can then support. There is also nothing to stop any member lodging an amendment at stage 2, if there is no consensus within the committee on an amendment. The aim at stage 1 is not to scrutinise each part of the bill, although it would be permissible to bring areas of concern to the attention of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 285839,
      "EditedText": "It means that we can come back to those matters later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 285842,
      "EditedText": "That is certainly true. I will make some points about the issues that have been raised, which will be circulated in writing to the Parliamentary Bureau and to clerking services. This is our first attempt at dealing with a subject bill, and some things could have been handled better for us by the bureau. We could also have been given more clarification on the legal points of what we are required to do and how and when we are able to do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 285847,
      "EditedText": "A précis of the areas of concern would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 285850,
      "EditedText": "We mentioned research yesterday, but it was not in Ben Wallace's paper. If we are using that paper as the basis of what we will submit to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, we will have to add that to it. The issue was the definition in the bill that research should be for the benefit of the patient. People such as Alzheimer Scotland and the BMA say that there is a wider need for research and that the individuals themselves may want it. I would if I were in that position. It might be too late for me to benefit from any research in which I participated, but there would be a wider benefit for society and for the group of people who eventually will suffer from the same disease. With Alzheimer's, one might feel that one had a duty of care to one's fellow man."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 285857,
      "EditedText": "We heard some evidence this morning, and I felt that the meaning of the word \"medical\" was being challenged. The RCN said that we should be talking about nursing care—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 285858,
      "EditedText": "Clinical care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 285859,
      "EditedText": "Yes, clinical care. Are we now just talking about treatment? Because if we adopt one particular definition, it cuts off what we are trying to do, which is to ensure that people receive appropriate treatment at the appropriate time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 285862,
      "EditedText": "It is all very well to say those things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 285865,
      "EditedText": "There is an interesting amendment that we could make. The committee could come up with a view of how to define medical treatment, and lodge an amendment in the name, perhaps, of an individual."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 285869,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add two points, which we have already skirted round during much of the discussion this morning. One concerns the ability of the attorney to challenge a clinical judgment. Section 47 says that the attorney has the power to say, \"Do not treat.\" There needs to be more clarity.In paragraph 5.2 of its submission to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee meeting on 17 November, the RCN said that it would expect that\"a welfare attorney who exercises his or her right to withhold consent to medical treatment would also have the ability to differentiate between different types of treatment.\"This issue is very complex, and we also have to take into account the confidentiality of the patient.I would like—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 285870,
      "EditedText": "We also have to take into account the fact that the patients are in incredible pain and distress in the first place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 285873,
      "EditedText": "I did not say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 285874,
      "EditedText": "You said that incapable adults were open to abuse. The numbers of incidents that are proven—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285884",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 285884,
      "EditedText": "There is some form of protection for the situation that Dorothy described. Section 44(1) states that the person authorised to make decisions on behalf of an adult with incapacity shall have,\"during the period specified in the certificate under this subsection, authority to do what is reasonable in the circumstances to safeguard or promote the physical or mental health of that adult.\"That defines the authority.I would like to tone down paragraph 7(iv) of my report, which deals with the doctor appealing to the Court of Session. In view of what Richard Simpson and others have said, I think that it should be a matter of balance and partnership, rather than swinging round to the other side, where the doctor can overrule decisions. That is why I have raised the point about liability, saying that if one gets it wrong, one is liable. At the moment, if one gets it wrong, one has to prove only a pretty low level of reasonable action, in my opinion, and that lets people get away with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 285893,
      "EditedText": "We will flag that up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 285895,
      "EditedText": "The clerk will get clarification on Dr Simpson's point and circulate the answer to members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 285897,
      "EditedText": "In April."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 285899,
      "EditedText": "The revised definition of nearest relative will be important, because the nearest relative may be somebody who has been proven to be an unsuitable person to make decisions on behalf of the patient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 285905,
      "EditedText": "It is the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. Its title was changed from the incapable adults bill to avoid the very difficulty that you describe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 285909,
      "EditedText": "The Justice and Home Affairs Committee could take that issue beyond the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 285911,
      "EditedText": "We should also remember that children's hospitals sometimes treat 17 and 18-year-olds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 285912,
      "EditedText": "It is sometimes better for those young people to be in that environment than in a mixed adult ward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 285914,
      "EditedText": "No. Even under old Scots law, girls at 12 and boys at 14 were regarded as being able to make decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 285915,
      "EditedText": "You can see why that would be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 285920,
      "EditedText": "The issue should be dealt with separately with regard to children. However, the problem is how to treat a child who is capable of making a decision on a specific issue but is excluded from consideration by the legislation because of age. There would be no alternative but to go to court, as in the case of the 12-year-old who refused to have a heart transplant. The court decided that she was not able to make that decision and the transplant took place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 285932,
      "EditedText": "There is total consensus on that point, but if the bill might be interpreted differently, we must ensure that such an interpretation is excluded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 285933,
      "EditedText": "Our role should be to calm outside speculation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 285880,
      "EditedText": "We have not discussed the issue of joint guardians. They are discussed in section 56 of the bill and are a good idea. We should be concerned about placing people entirely in the care of a relative or a doctor. Despite what Margaret Jamieson said, there have been notorious cases of abuse, such as that of Dr John Bodken Adams in Eastbourne in the 1950s. I think that this section warrants much more careful examination."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 285882,
      "EditedText": "I have a second question about that. I do not see anything in the bill, although I stand to be corrected, about protecting people from a relative who might be a beneficiary under their estate making major decisions on their behalf. That could be a general practitioner, and I must admit that I did not like the BMA going coy on us today when I asked roughly how long it can take someone to die through the removal of fluids and artificial sustenance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 285883,
      "EditedText": "It was a difficult question for them to answer.I think that Ben wants to answer Dorothy's first point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 285885,
      "EditedText": "That is a point that I made yesterday. I am quite happy with the idea of balance, but we should remember what Sheila McLean said: that the idea was not capable of being translated into law. In the end, we may have to decide between the two extremes, and my views on that are well known."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 285887,
      "EditedText": "The most striking evidence was Sheila McLean's commentary on the American research that showed that the proxy did not get it right any more often than if it had been left to chance. That terrified me. What are we doing by giving a duty of care to proxies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 285890,
      "EditedText": "At stage 2, the committee may feel that it wants to lodge an amendment on that. At this stage, we shall simply flag up the general feeling of the committee on that point. We must remember that we are supposed to be talking about general principles. We have sometimes gone beyond that, partly because of lack of clarification as to what was expected of us.Are there any other points that members feel we should flag up as areas of concern?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 285891,
      "EditedText": "This is a question that perhaps the lawyers can answer. Under the general principles in part 1 of the bill, section 1(4) describes a number of people who must be taken into account in determining whether an intervention is to be made. Is laying it out as it is in the bill an indication of hierarchy? Does that indicate a hierarchy of wishes in the bill? Do the present and past wishes and feelings of the adult, as far as those can be ascertained, have any primacy? Clearly, they have to be taken into account, but from this morning's evidence it appeared as if the clinical team and the proxy or a relative would have to decide together what the patient would have wanted.If the layout of this bill gives advance statements primacy, although they do not have force in law and have been excluded from consideration, they will have a significant weighting. If, on the other hand, the implication is merely that all four parties have equal say in any decision, that is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 285892,
      "EditedText": "I made that point in paragraph 8 of my report. The priorities need to be redefined, because they are not clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 285894,
      "EditedText": "I do not understand the legal niceties that are behind the layout of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 285898,
      "EditedText": "ENABLE, for example, does not want to hold up the bill by making us wait for the Millan report, but the fact that the Millan committee may come up with new definitions for two such critical terms has implications for the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 285900,
      "EditedText": "The fact that we are awaiting the Millan report clouds the waters somewhat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 285903,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 285906,
      "EditedText": "We ought also to mention the comatose state. Nowadays it is admitted that we do not know much about that in the long term; some patients who had been diagnosed as being in a permanent vegetative state have recovered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 285907,
      "EditedText": "That is probably a matter for stage 2 consideration. However, I appreciate that it relates to our earlier report about clarification. If we are going to do something, we should do it by the front door and let people know our intention. We should not get into a situation where people could say that the bill's intention differs from its reality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 285908,
      "EditedText": "One thing that we need to get right is the definition of the age of an adult. We cannot have different ages in different pieces of legislation; the same age should apply in absolutely everything. We should flag up that concern to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 285916,
      "EditedText": "Do not worry, Ben—you will soon be old enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 285917,
      "EditedText": "As long as women make decisions for me, I do not mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 285922,
      "EditedText": "After our discussions, do any members feel violently opposed to anything in Ben's report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 285923,
      "EditedText": "Ben has agreed to modify paragraph 7(iv), which will keep me happy. There may be a problem with paragraph 8; the evidence this morning at the Justice and Home Affairs Committee showed that the law on euthanasia is a total mess. No two witnesses could agree on where the law stood."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 285925,
      "EditedText": "It is important to recognise that that is not the bill's aim. We should flag up the fact that it could give way to euthanasia, through abuses of the system. That is why I tried to state the bill's aim at the beginning of my report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 285927,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that you said that.CARE Scotland highlighted what the bill might unintentionally lead to. I will read out the relevant paragraph:\"CARE acknowledges that this is a difficult area, but the logical conclusion of a growing acceptance of the withdrawal of food and water from patients with mental incapacity is clear. It would see an increase in calls for patients to be injected . . . and put ‘to sleep', rather than ‘starve to death' over two weeks. As currently drafted, this clause will lead to the legalisation of euthanasia, both voluntary and involuntary.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 285928,
      "EditedText": "First, that is a stage 2 issue. Secondly, there is claim and counter-claim. Today we are discussing the general principles of the bill. However, we are possibly exceeding our role, although there are obvious reasons for that. We are saying to members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and to the Executive that, if there are doubts that allow people to make claims and counter-claims at this stage, those doubts should be dealt with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 285929,
      "EditedText": "I wonder how many colleagues agree with my personal feeling that, in principle, I want the bill to progress. It is long overdue, given the unnecessary suffering of families over many years. I would not like the bill's progress to be halted because of the grey areas that surround so-called living wills, euthanasia or whatever people want to call it. I want the bill to be passed as quickly as possible; I do not want those issues to get in the way of a much-needed bill. I believe that there is a separate debate to be had on euthanasia, living wills and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 285930,
      "EditedText": "Is that general feeling held by members of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 285931,
      "EditedText": "I totally agree with Kay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 285936,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 285937,
      "EditedText": "I also want to thank committee members for their patience and for the extra work that they have undertaken in a short time. As members of my committee, they have read submissions and taken on board people's concerns on an important piece of legislation in a professional and competent way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 285938,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:16."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7891247+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 285824,
      "EditedText": "Will we receive any papers in advance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 285825,
      "EditedText": "We have asked for various submissions, and people have asked whether they can make submissions to us. I have also circulated details to all the local members, including list MSPs as well as constituency MSPs, so that they will know that the meeting is taking place and will have the opportunity to submit any information that they have in advance. We have been trying to get a wide range of submissions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 285826,
      "EditedText": "I assume that that meeting will take place in Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 285827,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 285834,
      "EditedText": "I do not remember receiving an e-mail. As I said, this was a unique opportunity for us to go to meet the people, particularly bearing it in mind that the petition had 25,000 signatures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 7557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 285835,
      "EditedText": "From what you are saying, I take it that next time we should give more consideration to such matters. Some people who responded pointed out that, because this was the first time that we had considered a petition, there was a question of precedent. I will ask the clerks to look into the matter and to get copies of all the answers that we received, but I am pretty sure that we e-mailed all members about it. I remember receiving comments from several people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 285836,
      "EditedText": "We have had some further clarification of what we should be doing at this stage in our consideration of the bill. We have only a short time to pull together our thoughts at stage 1 and to pass those on to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which is the lead committee on the bill. I will ask Jennifer Smart to give us clarification not only of what we are expected to do at stage 1, but of what we can do at stage 2. We have received some further clarification on that since yesterday, so we can let you know what is happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 285841,
      "EditedText": "That would have saved a lot of heartache over the past couple of days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 285844,
      "EditedText": "I can say only that I was acting on the information that had been given to me. The information that was given to you this morning was the result of a meeting that we have had in the past 10 or 15 minutes. That gives us the ability to take the bill forward, possibly using Ben Wallace's report as a starting point. We can add issues to that, change its tone and take out anything with which we are unhappy; I note that Ben did not cover research and a couple of other matters, but I will wait for other members to raise them. We need to ask ourselves whether there are problems that need to be addressed through legislation, and whether we are happy with the general principles of the bill.At this stage we do not have to say that we agree chapter and verse. It would be useful for us to give pointers on areas of concern or on areas that we think that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee should consider. Does anyone want to kick off?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 285848,
      "EditedText": "We do not have one at the moment.From memory, I can say that we had a discussion about the definition of adults with incapacity. We picked up on Ben Wallace's point that it was an either/or definition, although there are an awful lot of areas in between. The question of adults with learning difficulties was highlighted. There was much discussion about duty of care, which is covered in paragraph 7 of Ben's report, and about the definition of benefit in part 1 of the bill. The committee discussed a duty of care for welfare attorneys, their responsibility and liability, and how welfare attorneys should interface with the medical profession. There was some discussion about members of the medical profession having to go to the Court of Session if they did not agree with a proxy's decision. There was discussion about section 44(2)(b) and the inclusion of hydration and nutrition. Members can correct me if I am wrong, but the question of omission was included—that a duty of care should cover the omission of treatment as well as proactive intervention. We did not go into that in particular detail yesterday, so members may want to pick up on it once they have heard from the British Medical Association and the Royal College of Nursing. It was suggested that there was a lack of clarity because section 44(2)(b) mentioned hydration—this is the first time that it has been included in a definition of medical treatment in legislation. That caused concern to a number of groups. The overall feeling of those who spoke—Malcolm Chisholm expressed it well—was that, although the intention of the bill was not to create a back door to euthanasia, there was a need for greater clarification, so that it could be seen that that was most definitely not the case.Can anyone remember anything else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 285853,
      "EditedText": "That is at the end of section 44."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 285855,
      "EditedText": "Compatibility with the European convention on human rights is one of the criteria for legislative competency under the Scotland Act 1998. When a minister or the Presiding Officer makes a statement, as required by the act, about a bill's legislative competency, the ECHR has to be taken into account. Jim Wallace and Sir David Steel have made such statements about the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. It would be strange for the committee to consider the issue now. In particular, such consideration could be interpreted as raising questions about the content or status of the Presiding Officer's statement. The statement of competency has been made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 285856,
      "EditedText": "As things stand, according to the background information that I have, the Parliament is getting things right in that regard much more than it is getting things wrong. It is only in a tiny proportion of cases—1 or 2 per cent—that people are saying that we have got things wrong. That is not to say that the issue should not be raised. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee will probably want to consider the matter. However, the Parliament is covered. We can refer the matter to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee.Does anyone want to raise a point that was not included in Ben's report? We have already noted that there was nothing in his report about research, so we should flag up research as an issue that should be considered. We also decided that there was a need to expand on the paragraph in Ben's initial report on the definition of medical treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 285867,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is an option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 285872,
      "EditedText": "I thank Mary for raising that point. When I heard that definition, I had visions of a lawyer sitting in every accident and emergency room with a cash register. We need to be careful that we are not parachuting a profession in to do the work of other capable professionals.Mary repeated the assumption that people who are classed as incapable suffer abuse from nurses and doctors. There is no substance to such claims."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 285875,
      "EditedText": "I would like us to return to a discussion of the general principles of the bill. I agree with Mary that the law should prevent any kind of abuse, whether it is financial or medical. That is a general principle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1692
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 7558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 285876,
      "EditedText": "I would like to point out that the present arrangements are what we have at the moment, not what the bill would introduce. At the moment, before the introduction of the legislation, people are open to abuse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 17 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2151,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2151,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 105829,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2152,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2152,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 105834,
      "EditedText": "That work is admirable. I know that there is a lot of interest in the site. I received a fax yesterday from representatives of the Antonine Guard—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2152,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2152,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 105836,
      "EditedText": "It still exists. It is a society that performs historical re-enactments in Roman uniform. It is excited that somebody is taking the issue of the Roman port at Cramond seriously. Brian will probably get an honorary commission in the Antonine Guard as a result of his work, which is going very well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2152,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 2152,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 105838,
      "EditedText": "And in other matters, which we do not want to embarrass you by talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2152,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 2152,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 105839,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that, Brian. Do you feel that you have sufficient assistance to proceed with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 105845,
      "EditedText": "We have until 10:45. That is not a great deal of time, so I ask that questions and answers be kept fairly brief. Magnus Linklater, perhaps you could indicate which member of your team will respond to each question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 105848,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the fact that the national companies take up a huge proportion of the Arts Council's finances. Has that proportion changed and do you think that you have got it right? In particular, is it right for opera to be the major sponge, if that is the correct word?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 105852,
      "EditedText": "My final question concerns why opera in particular and the national companies in general take so much of the resources. You said—and I agree—that the process of monitoring the companies is subjective and difficult. Why does opera take up so much of your money—is that based purely on tradition? Is it cost driven, in the sense that if opera were twice as expensive you would support it with twice the budget? Do you apply any criteria other than the inherent costs of the companies themselves?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 105856,
      "EditedText": "It would be ambitious to say that, in the short time that I have been in the organisation, I could have examined the years you mentioned. We take assessment very seriously. Quite separately from what has happened in the past couple of months, the organisation is considering its assessment process to ensure that procedures are up to date.There is overwhelming proof that procedures are proper and fair to all parties in most of the projects and organisations that SAC monitors. Clearly, given what has happened over the past few months, we need to work closely with Scottish Opera and the merged company to consider our monitoring of long-term planning as well as the actuality month by month. I do not say that that does not happen now, but there are a number of things that we could do, such as looking at long-term plans, and being prepared for meetings by looking at papers well in advance of meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 105860,
      "EditedText": "We will come back to questions on the merger."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 105865,
      "EditedText": "One of the reasons for the merger was to make savings, which have not been figured out yet. The savings will be in the area of administrative and technical back-up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 105868,
      "EditedText": "In the timetable that you produced, the entry for 26 November 1998 states:\"Figures for merged working beginning to be produced.\" Are we to believe that you are still working on figures for the merger, or are concrete figures now available?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry (Scottish Arts Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 105869,
      "EditedText": "Your reference to the figures relates to a series of financial models that began to be produced around that time. They forecast the effect of joining certain aspects of the two companies. That was almost a year ago, and since then forecasts have been refined and things have changed. There were several versions of those early financial models. All I can say at this stage is that I have no doubt that the companies will still be refining them. As we near an event, it becomes easier to forecast the actual costs, income and any savings. The answer to your question is yes; those figures are being worked on all the time, and they change as circumstances become clearer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 105871,
      "EditedText": "Those varied forecasts are an indication of the relatively close monitoring—mainly by Scottish Opera itself—that was going on, and come from the figures that it passed to us. A new set of management figures was produced every two months that updated the previous set of accounts. I mentioned earlier that as we progress through a financial year the forecasts and spending figures become clearer. More important for performing companies such as Scottish Opera, the box office income becomes clearer. Variations between forecast box office income and actual income account for most of the variations in the forecast deficit. There is nothing unusual or untoward about that: it shows that there is close monitoring of the position as and when management accounts are produced and presented to us and, presumably, to the board of Scottish Opera."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 105874,
      "EditedText": "I echo what Magnus Linklater has said. The early phases of the cash flows do not show anything unusual. I mentioned earlier that as a company progresses through the year its cash demands and its forecasts change. The information that we have received reflects that. That is all that I can say about the cash flows. As Magnus has said, the amount of cash that is needed simply reflects the actual income and expenditure of that period. One must remember that the bulk of the earned income, from box office sales and sponsorship, tends to come later on in the financial year. A lot of the grant income from the Scottish Arts Council tends to be paid up earlier. That may not be completely clear to someone who is studying the figures for the beginning of the year, and we usually expect revisions of the cash flow as we progress through the financial year. I agree that the cash flow figures show some significant changes, but the overall cash balances and the forecast did not indicate anything untoward. Having said that, we were concerned enough to raise the questions that have been noted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 105875,
      "EditedText": "Let me press that point a little. According to the Scottish Opera board minutes, under the heading \"Finance\":\"The Period 3 Management Accounts were introduced. The overall situation was favourable in relation to budget.\"That is a quotation from a board minute. I assume that those minutes are supplied to your organisation and that you would have a representative present at board meetings in any case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 105876,
      "EditedText": "We do not attend every board meeting, but there is usually a representative at most of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 105878,
      "EditedText": "Scottish Opera was clearly working on the cash flows that it had prepared. All that I can say is that they were obviously incorrect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 105884,
      "EditedText": "I accept that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 105887,
      "EditedText": "Is that updated monthly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 105888,
      "EditedText": "Normally, there is no need to update it at all. Smaller organisations, for example, which do not have huge ebbs and flows in their income and expenditure, can often forecast their income and expenditure fairly accurately over the full 12 months. If there is any variation, it is up to the client organisation to give me a revision and tell me that it needs an additional instalment of grant or a change to the instalments. In the instance that you are referring to, I believe that we had a telephone call saying that they needed some extra cash. When we examined the cash flow, it was obvious that that need had not been anticipated in the figures that we had been given. I simply requested a corrected version that would update the figures to give the actual position. That is part of the normal course of business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 105898,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a general point about that. When the national companies working group, under the chairmanship of Neil McIntosh, examined the operations of all the national companies, it came up with proposals, including merger, to which all the companies signed up. All the companies recognised that they were responsible for managing their own affairs. That was an important part of the deal. Scottish Opera was well managed and we had no doubt that it would be able to deliver on its agreements.The companies are independent of the Scottish Arts Council but we are responsible for monitoring them. As Graham pointed out, our monitoring procedures are well understood and well laid down. In the light of what has happened, we will spend the next three months re-examining the monitoring process and determining whether it needs to be strengthened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 105899,
      "EditedText": "You said that Scottish Opera was well managed when the terms were agreed. Something obviously went wrong with the management at some point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 105902,
      "EditedText": "We are not involved in the management process; we are responsible for monitoring it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 105904,
      "EditedText": "Who suggested that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 105906,
      "EditedText": "We are not hands-on in that sense. We do not replace boards. That may refer to Scottish Ballet, the history of which is well documented. I do not think that what you say is right. As set out here, we assess and monitor the organisations that we fund. We ask for statements and we attend board meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 105910,
      "EditedText": "I refer you to the paper from which you have just read, which says:\"I appreciate that you and Peg would wish to stand down once a new Chairman is appointed, but I would urge you to hold back until that happens.\"That was my exact phrasing. Peg Beveridge is chairman of Scottish Ballet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 105913,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I want to ask about good financial management. The Cogo-Fawcett report, which considered some of the issues, described the financial management of Scottish Ballet in less than complimentary terms. The report indicated that too tight financial management had a corrosive effect on the artistic activities of the company. Was that true? Does that perhaps mean that Scottish Opera is not being managed tightly enough?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 105916,
      "EditedText": "The board of Scottish Ballet rightly feel slightly aggrieved that having lived within their means and having run a successful company—although perhaps not an internationally outstanding company—its financial control was described as having a corrosive effect on the artistic freedom of the company. Yet Scottish Opera, which does not live within its means and which has had to be saved from bankruptcy 11 times in 32 years—with 48 hours to go on the most recent occasion—is praised by the chairman of the Scottish Arts Council for being very well managed. There must be a balance in managing the national arts companies somewhere between those two extremes. The balance is not right at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 105917,
      "EditedText": "It was not just the opinion of the national companies working group under Neil McIntosh that those companies were well managed; the group had accountants going over every last figure and interrogating the boards of both companies. At that stage, they concluded that Scottish Opera was an efficiently managed company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 105919,
      "EditedText": "I will not pass judgment on that. We have a serious job ahead of us in addressing this situation and we have to come up with proper answers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 105920,
      "EditedText": "I just want to press this point. A company that has been serially in debt over many years has just received £2.2 million. Could anyone really describe such a company as very well managed? Would not people want to be absolutely certain that companies stuck to their budgets? They would accept that companies can agitate or campaign for more funds, but they want sound financial management so that other budgets are not plundered again and again. Is not that what people want, Magnus?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 105923,
      "EditedText": "We have five minutes left. Ken Macintosh will be next, followed by Brian Montieth."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 105924,
      "EditedText": "In his submission, Sandy Orr suggests:\"It is comparatively easy in the short term for arts companies to play safe and live within their means, but that would not achieve the maximum gearing on public and private investment in these companies\".That suggests that Scottish Opera is encouraged to live dangerously with the money at its disposal. Have you nourished such an attitude at the company?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 105926,
      "EditedText": "No? Sorry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 105930,
      "EditedText": "Before I let Brian Monteith in, I want to ask a question. I think that Tessa said that you were still considering the remit of the report that the Scottish Executive has asked for. What might be included in that report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 105931,
      "EditedText": "It is very important that we document the lessons that Scottish Opera and the Arts Council have learnt and consider practical, deliverable ways of working in future. There is no point in one party or the other coming up with suggestions that will not be borne out. The Arts Council has examined its assessment process separately. As a result, we have been asking questions not in the light of any particular event, but to ensure that certain conditions are adhered to and that we have papers in advance so that there is something to examine if someone cannot attend a meeting.The process by which boards sign off agreements of contract—on, for example, the artistic programme or any capital—is well documented. In some cases, commitments are perhaps better documented, so that it is quite clear what commitments have been made and when. The entire board and the Scottish Arts Council would be aware of any commitments. That can be difficult from the artistic direction side, when people are in constant negotiation and discussion, and that is why we need to plan ways of working in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 105937,
      "EditedText": "Tessa Jackson spoke about lessons to be learnt for the future. If it were to emerge from those lessons that there had been a complete breakdown in the system of commissioning work—something that Tessa referred to, and that documents that we have refer to—would you regard that as a matter that required, if a staff member had been involved, serious action?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 105938,
      "EditedText": "This answer is a question back to you. If it were seen that, within the SAC, something had not been appropriately carried out—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 105939,
      "EditedText": "If within your organisation, or within client organisations, money had been spent without proper authority, and had resulted in a serious financial deficit, would you regard that as a matter in which you would have to name the individuals and ensure that it was clear who was responsible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 105941,
      "EditedText": "Would you be inclined, as an open, accessible and public organisation, to make such information public?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 105943,
      "EditedText": "We hope so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 105944,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much for your answers to our questions. We know that you will be coming back to us at the end of the inquiry, to discuss the issue of the national theatre."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 105945,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 105946,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 105947,
      "EditedText": "I welcome members of Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet. You have had the opportunity to hear our earlier presentation and questioning. I suggest that we employ the same format. I will give you an opportunity to say a few words, if you want to, after which the debate will be opened to committee members to ask you any questions that they may have. Duncan, I am aware that you are going to take the lead. You may invite your colleagues to speak, as you see fit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan McGhie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 105958,
      "EditedText": "So do I."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 105950,
      "EditedText": "I hope that nobody at today's meeting feels that there is an atmosphere of philistinism around. I pay tribute to the quality of Scottish Ballet and Scottish Opera. It is in no one's interest to harm that quality, and I accept that companies that do not aim for the best are not good enough to be called national companies of Scotland.I asked earlier about the timetable for and cost implications of the merger. You may want to comment on that, but more important is how the companies feel about the merger and its detailed workings. For example, I understand that Scottish Ballet has premises in West Princes Street in Glasgow with which it is very happy. It is possible that under a merged organisation it will be told to sell those and go somewhere else that is not as good. That may not save money; instead, Scottish Ballet may end up like me, sharing a lawnmower with the guy next door."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan McGhie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 105954,
      "EditedText": "There is a risk and it would be naive of us to not recognise that. I can reassure the committee that we are well aware of that risk and that issues such as cross-subsidisation must be addressed. There is no good whatsoever in putting two strong organisations together and letting the lowest common denominator drag both down. That is not the point of the merger. All one can do at this stage is to say, \"Yes, there is a risk, but we are aware of it and we will manage that risk\". At the end of the process, we will have a strong opera company and a strong ballet company.The degree to which merging should take place artistically is, as far as I am concerned, an issue for tomorrow, not today. Practical issues of the nature that Adrian Trickey described must be dealt with quickly and efficiently. Those are savings that can be made, which will support the artistic development, not impede it. I want to consider ideas for future artistic merger at a more leisurely pace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 105955,
      "EditedText": "If one partner in a merger is in such deep financial trouble that it cannot be sorted, presumably that will put an end to the merger?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 105957,
      "EditedText": "I hope that you succeed."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 105961,
      "EditedText": "Do you accept the analysis of the Cogo-Fawcett report that Scottish Ballet's financial direction had a corrosive effect on its artistic ability?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 105967,
      "EditedText": "It is one of the issues with which we must deal during the merger. At the end of the process, we cannot have a single company in which salary differentials for people doing similar jobs depend on which company they worked for before the merger. There has to be a regrading of staff across the whole company, and personnel have to be slotted into positions in a standard structure with standard gradings. That is most applicable where similar departments, such as marketing or theatre technicians, are being merged. However, there will be issues even for artistic staff who do not do exactly comparable jobs but will work for the same organisation. It would be surprising if dancers coming into the new organisation from Scottish Ballet—who, as Peg Beveridge says, are aware that they are less well paid than dancers in any other large dance company in the UK—did not look at the salaries of artistic personnel in the other half of the company. We expect that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 105968,
      "EditedText": "I know that we will come on to what has happened in the past six months so I will not ask you about that, but I will ask about financial planning.I referred to the plans for Scottish Opera for the next 12 months, which obviously have been developed over some time. Nobody could deny that they are ambitious. The Scottish Arts Council shows in the first run of the figures a deficit of about £1.5 million for next year—let alone what has just happened. In those circumstances, the chairman's statement made by Sandy Orr at the end of 1996 is important. He said:\"For years we had managed to keep our finances in order by means of sizable one off sums\"—we know that that was true then and is true now—\"but had always warned that these could not be found indefinitely and that the company was suffering from structural underfunding which needed to be addressed on a long term basis if it were to be able to continue at its present level of quality and activity.\"Adrian Trickey has talked about the need to spend additional sums in merging the companies to address such difficulties as the matter of salaries. We know that there is a budget that allows for a deficit arising from your plans for the coming years. It seems to me that the merger, far from putting the companies on to a firmer footing, is a cause for concern for the public purse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 105969,
      "EditedText": "I substantially agree with what you have said about the impact of the merger on costs. At various times in the past, there have been ambitious targets for the savings that could be achieved by merging the two companies. You have drawn attention to instances—we are already aware of them—in which merging creates a tendency towards a growth in costs, perhaps for very good reasons. For whatever reason, one of the companies might not have been able to pay the going rate in the past. We are all beginning to realise that putting a large financial plus against the outcome of the merger is not what it is about. It is about delivering quality and making some savings from economies of scale; it is not about releasing large amounts of money from staff or salary reductions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 105973,
      "EditedText": "Some of those productions have contractual commitments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 105979,
      "EditedText": "On \"Das Rheingold\", we have contractual commitments for the creative team—the directors and designers—and one or two commitments to singers. The majority of singers are not firmly contracted yet. Operas beyond that are in the same situation—we have not made contractual arrangements with more than the occasional singer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 105980,
      "EditedText": "But based on those figures, if you were to stop after \"Das Rheingold\", would you simply break even for the year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 105982,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 105985,
      "EditedText": "I have not said that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 105987,
      "EditedText": "That is not necessarily the conclusion that one would draw from those figures. If you want us to look into that as an option and produce a report on it, we could do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 105993,
      "EditedText": "Are you absolutely sure? If I know arts organisations—and I have worked with one or two in my time—they come out with statements such as Sandy Orr's and, quite rightly, argue their corner. There will be a tendency to try to keep those areas separate. Producers and directors will say, \"Hands off!\" As a manager, are you sure that that part of the merger process is under way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 105995,
      "EditedText": "I await with interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 106002,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful for the information that you have provided, including the fascinating set of board minutes from Sandy Orr. I do not think that I have seen a more congratulatory set of board minutes for a long time. Even the words \"artistic triumph\" appear in them.I cannot find anywhere in the chronology that the Scottish Arts Council has given us, or in the documentation that Scottish Opera has sent us, an account of the process by which \"Macbeth\" was commissioned. Can you give me the time scale and an account of the decision-making process that was involved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 106008,
      "EditedText": "The total cost of \"Macbeth\" in the year 1999-2000 is approximately £781,000. Does that include production and performing costs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 106009,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 106010,
      "EditedText": "How much was included in the figures that were seen on 24 June?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 106004,
      "EditedText": "On what date did the board approve the plans? I asked for the dates on which the plans were approved and where they fitted into the budgeting process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 106005,
      "EditedText": "It has never been the board's practice to approve specific productions. That is a key feature of a non-executive board and reinforces the point that has been made about the importance of putting artistic expertise and authority in the right hands. The board is responsible for approving the draft budgets for the year. Because of difficulties in negotiating the grant level for 1999-2000 with the Scottish Arts Council, the board formally approved the 1999-2000 budget, which included \"Macbeth\", at its meeting in June 1999, after the Scottish Arts Council had approved its latest three-year plan, of which 1999-2000 was the first year. Of course, the board's finance committee had seen draft budgets that included \"Macbeth\" in autumn 1998. Because discussions with the Scottish Arts Council about grant levels in the three-year plan starting in the financial year 1999-2000 were so late, it was impossible for the board to approve a budget before June.I must say that, undesirable as that may seem, I understand that it has not been uncommon for Scottish Opera to be in that position. That has been the case for several years before my time as well as during my time. It might seem undesirable to the committee that a company does not approve its budget before it starts the financial year, and I have to agree with that view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 106020,
      "EditedText": "Money has not been lost, Mr Russell: this is a cash flow issue. Scottish Opera had an inherited deficit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 106021,
      "EditedText": "Money has been lost; it has been taken from Scottish Executive budgets and put into your budget with only two or three weeks' notice. According to the Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport last week, your company was within 48 hours of going bust. There would have been a very considerable cost if that had happened, not least in terms of people's jobs. This was not a victimless crime, Mr Orr."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 106022,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that this was a victimless crime. This situation should not have arisen. However, the company's trading was on budget. You have to remember that this is a business with a £10 million turnover—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 106023,
      "EditedText": "How could you have been on budget if you were about to go bust?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 106024,
      "EditedText": "Can we let Mr Orr answer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 106034,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that. We are trying to find out whether the management difficulties that have been experienced are in some way to blame for the situation. The key problem is that Scottish Opera loses funding if it spends less than a target figure. That encourages the company to set unrealistic budgets. It is unrealistic for a public company to run a deficit of the scale that we are talking about today. One problem is the fact that the company cannot build up reserves, but another must be Scottish Opera's assessment of what the budget should be. No company should be run with a £3 million deficit, and you should realise that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 106035,
      "EditedText": "The accounts for the period during which I was the chairman of the company show that we have not missed our budgets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 106036,
      "EditedText": "Scottish Opera set its budgets, but the levels were wrong."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 106041,
      "EditedText": "Precisely. The question of annuality will be—and has already been—raised in a number of places. There will be further discussion on that, but many organisations are having to operate on that basis; they are not getting into the difficulties that we are having to examine today. We have to take that on board."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 106042,
      "EditedText": "You will gather how long I have been waiting by my line of questioning. I refer to a point made by Ruth Mackenzie, with regard to the programme of productions. Am I right that the board does not approve the productions that you decide to run in a season? Is that what you meant?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 106046,
      "EditedText": "That is pleasing to hear. Sandy Orr consistently talked about—and has put in writing—achieving budget. Coming from a commercial background, I find it rather confusing that while budgets have consistently been met, the company seems to be running up growing deficits. When you talk about meeting budgets, are you saying that you have met the target production and performance budgets, or that you have met the target production and performance budgets set against the additional production income from other companies, venues, sponsorship or the box office? In what terms do you see the budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 106050,
      "EditedText": "Your own statement seems to contradict you, as you say that the components of the serious financial situation were accumulated deficits—we will take that as read for the moment—that were planned to be maintained and increased. We have heard a lot about that.Paragraph 12 of the paper talks about\"the need to pay for a major project not budgeted to be charged on current income.\"We understand that that is \"Macbeth\". The intention was that \"Macbeth\" would be earning. Did it not meet its budget because the income did not come in?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 106053,
      "EditedText": "So why has it now been decided that the money should be shown in the current year?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 106056,
      "EditedText": "This is obviously an area that the inquiry will go into in detail."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 106058,
      "EditedText": "I think that \"Ariadne auf Naxos\" is a precedent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 106059,
      "EditedText": "Will you provide the figures to the committee to prove that? The information that has been provided indicates that there is no precedent of carrying forward more than £600,000. No matter what accounting procedure were applied, that would cause an additional burden on the cash flow. Following on from Sandy Orr's point about budgeting, that burden skewed the demands on the cash flow for that year beyond a level that could be sustained. Putting on that production was bound to cause a financial crisis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 106061,
      "EditedText": "Who were those co-sponsors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 106063,
      "EditedText": "The Vienna festival?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 106066,
      "EditedText": "There are two partnership projects with the Vienna festival. I am sorry, but this will sound complicated. One is a co-production partnership—in which it contributes to the costs of the production. The second is an invitation to the company to tour—a different arrangement in which the company is given a fee to cover the cost of touring. So there are two payments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 106070,
      "EditedText": "I think that we all understand that. What I am asking you—it seems difficult to get this answer—is this: whether, even with the co-production income, which did not turn up, you would have been in substantial deficit compared with your expectations. We have no evidence on whether you were let down and we would like evidence on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 106075,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I can answer the final specific question that Brian Monteith asks. It is one that we all have to address. We need to establish the mechanisms to bring the best possible financial controls to the new company. We would have to address that, however good the arrangements are for the merging companies. Essentially, we are starting with a new set-up, and the systems and arrangements that are put in place have to be good enough. The deficit has developed from the predicted £1.2 million—which, I remind everybody, is a combined deficit for the two companies, most of which is on Scottish Opera's books—to a predicted deficit of £2.5 million. That is also a combined deficit, not all of which is on the books of Scottish Opera. It includes the charging back of the \"Macbeth\" production to the current year. That is not a change in reality, but a change to what might be regarded as a more prudent accounting policy and a way of expressing the deficit properly. It is not a question of money having been spent that was not planned and expected to be spent. A significant element of the deficit is made up of costs relating entirely to the preparation for and carrying out of the merger. Those costs were not a part of either company's operating budget. There was a certain amount of specific funding for the merger, but the costs have run extensively over the earmarked budget. The £2.5 million deficit is the sum of all those separate elements. It has not built up because of the companies overspending by £1 million during the year. If members of the committee have not already received a paper that sets that out, we can give them one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 106076,
      "EditedText": "We would welcome that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 106077,
      "EditedText": "It is interesting that Scottish Ballet was concerned that a production might prudently be postponed, but that what has become apparent or started to unravel from the chain of events—I am not sure which is the best phrase—is that the artistic commitment was to drive on. It may be that there is an underlying structural problem with the funding or that, as Sandy Orr said, one must live near the edge and drive forward to attract the funds that one wants. There appear to be different approaches in the two companies. We need to ponder, as do the companies, given that we are talking about the companies merging."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106081",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan McGhie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 106081,
      "EditedText": "I thank you, convener, and the committee for your questioning. We have a lot to do. No one doubts that. It will take time. We would welcome the opportunity to come back at any time to discuss any of the points with you in more detail. We are at your disposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 106082,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Are members agreed that before next week's meeting on Tuesday morning we should hold—in private—a similar session to the one held this morning to discuss questions?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 17 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2151,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Mary Mulligan): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 105828,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, everybody. With the committee's permission, we will take the next 10 to 15 minutes in private, so that we can discuss the inquiry and the questioning that might be suitable for this morning's witnesses. Do I have the committee's agreement?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2152,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2152,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 105832,
      "EditedText": "Certainly. Last Monday I was able to visit the site with Gillian Baxendine, the committee clerk, and Mr Guild. We walked around the site—Mr Guild gave us a guided tour—and we discussed the problems that he felt merited his petition. Following that, I had discussions with the clerk and decided that the appropriate action is to write to a number of bodies that are interested parties, partly to establish what development plans there are in the area that the schedule of the historic site covers, and partly to try to identify exactly what the schedule covers and who those interested parties are. A great deal of evidence must still be gathered before we can speak to everyone. We are in the process of sending letters to East of Scotland Water, which is establishing a pumping site on the foreshore; Historic Scotland, which has a great deal of information on the schedule, the layout and those who have an interest; and City of Edinburgh Council, which is the planning authority and has an interest in the planning of the campus site, formerly occupied by Dunfermline College of Physical Education. We are also writing to the University of Edinburgh to establish the status of the development plans and the preferred bidder, and to the Council for Scottish Archaeology for its information on the importance of the site. Once I have received responses from them, I will have to follow them up. I hope that I will be able to make available at least a draft report before Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2152,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 105835,
      "EditedText": "Sorry?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2152,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 105837,
      "EditedText": "I am already a member of the praetorian guard in the Conservative party."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105840",
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      "ID": 530
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 105840,
      "EditedText": "For the moment, yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105841",
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    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2152,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 105841,
      "EditedText": "Good. We look forward to hearing your next report on that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 105842,
      "EditedText": "Members will have realised that, while Brian was speaking, members of the Scottish Arts Council joined us. Good morning to you all. I thank you for attending. The committee would like to explore a series of issues with you. I suggest that we give you a brief period—perhaps up to five minutes—to outline any issues that you think should be emphasised. We have the two papers that you sent to us, and we thank you for those. They have raised a number of questions, but there might be issues in them that you would like to expand on.I ask Magnus Linklater, as the chairman of the Scottish Arts Council, to introduce his team."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater (Scottish Arts Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 105843,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. I am the chairman of the Scottish Arts Council. Tessa Jackson, who has been in the job for precisely 37 days—a baptism of fire—is the director. Nod Knowles is the director of the music committee. Graham Berry is the finance director. David Taylor is the director of the dance committee. I have been involved with the national companies over many years. I was on the national companies implementation group, under the chairmanship of Neil McIntosh. I emphasise that the national companies are major contributors to Scotland's cultural life, as Sam Galbraith said the other day. The quality of their work is international, in the best sense, in that it goes far beyond Scotland. I believe that that is very important for their artistic excellence.The national companies are ambassadors for Scotland and work closely with local authorities throughout the country. They are important not only because of the performances they give, but for the tremendous work they do with young people in schools and in communities. That is a hugely important part of their work that is often overlooked. It is also important to the local authorities with which they work.I have recently been up and down the country with the cultural strategy group. We asked audiences throughout Scotland, \"whither Scotland's arts policy?\" It has been interesting to hear grass-roots views on the national companies. The response was broadly that people would like to see them more. People welcome the chance to go and see such events as \"Opera for all\", which works in schools, and \"Opera-go-round\", in which Scottish Opera gives small-scale performances. People have welcomed those where they have seen them and they would like to see more.Scottish Opera has ambitious aspirations. The resources that it requires reflect those ambitions. That is a legitimate subject for discussion and I am sure that the committee will want to ask questions about it. In recent years, we have established the national companies committee to discuss all the issues that are raised about the national companies. We have been closely involved with all of them, particularly with Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet, as they have moved towards a merger. We are committed to the quality of their respective work and we have paid particular attention to their artistic vision and to the companies' access to the audiences that they wish to build. The qualities of the companies have been taken care of by experienced artistic and administrative teams and highly committed boards. Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet will now couple their respective strengths under the newly appointed chairman, Duncan McGhie. We look forward to working with him and his staff.I will hand over to Tessa, who will say a few more words."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 105849,
      "EditedText": "Do we think that we have got it right—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 105850,
      "EditedText": "Have you got the balance right? There is an argument—which I do not support—that the national companies are elitist. I do not want to get into the elite versus low-brow culture argument, but do you think that they take up too much of your budget? Do you assess that and has it changed over the years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105844",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson (Scottish Arts Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 105844,
      "EditedText": "I want to outline the purpose of the two documents—although I hope that their purpose is self-evident. The first document is \"Background on the National Companies, November 1999\". There are four national companies and they produce extremely good work, but the report does not give much detail regarding the artistic programme. If that does not come up today, it will be up to us to reiterate how strong the programmes are and how important they are to the broad cultural life of Scotland and to the cultural lives of many individuals in the arts world and beyond—to people who might not previously have had the opportunity to engage with music, dance and opera.The paper attempts to give a general background to the joint working that has occurred in recent years and raises some of the issues that the companies and SAC have faced together. The paper—as you will have noted—includes questions that SAC would ask regarding what constitutes a national company in a new political framework. How do we recognise such companies in this new context? What vision and delivery describes a national company? Should we be looking to other organisations to take on such a role?We hope that the national cultural strategy will provide an opportunity to address those questions from our side, from the committee's side, from the point of view of the arts sector and—importantly—from the public's point of view. We would like contributions from all parties and we look forward our discussion today. This is a large subject, and in giving it due consideration we have looked at aspiration, actuality, resources, appropriate structure and the positioning of national companies. What does Scotland want and what can best be provided?The second paper concentrates on the relationship with Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet. It concentrates more on Scottish Opera, but that does not in any way suggest that our contact with Scottish Ballet is any less or that we value it any less. From previous meetings of the committee, we have detected that there are issues that members want to examine in more detail. I hope that the diary serves its purpose of setting out factually the context and order of events. The diary charts the past year and a half of a relationship that dates back a long time. It will give some idea of the complexity of events, the amount of contact and the ever changing contextual factors that were being considered by Scottish Opera, Scottish Ballet and the Scottish Arts Council. We regret that there will not be as much discussion of the artistic side—although members may want to draw that out—but we felt that the diary had to be self-contained. A good relationship has existed for a long time. The diary acknowledges that it is difficult to operate on tight budgets and that difficult decisions must be made. As a funder, we try to have regular contact with organisations and to support them, but it must be recognised that the organisations must manage themselves. SAC must achieve that fine balance with all the many organisations and projects that it supports. The diary will give a glimpse of the complex financial detail. It indicates how regularly SAC was informed of how the organisation was doing in terms of cash flow and keeping within agreed budgets. It is evident that the national companies have had many issues to deal with over a relatively short period of time. They have had to consider working together—moving towards a merger—and to examine merger models, the cost of a merger and a change of personnel. Long-term planning for substantial programmes is difficult. I hope that that comes across in the diary. We see this as an opportunity to examine the process that we have been through, recognise where lessons can be learnt and decide how to move forward successfully, which is what we all want to do. I am sure that I say that not only on behalf of SAC, but on behalf of Scottish Ballet and Scottish Opera, too. We have identified ways in which SAC can work more closely with organisations in the future on monitoring and long-term planning, while allowing organisations to operate independently—as they are constituted. We have discussed what the three-month report, which has been mentioned, should include. It may include a statement on the status of national companies. Our coming here today will form part of the report, on which we hope to make progress in the coming weeks. We welcome members' comments on what it would be helpful to include in the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105846",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 105846,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming along. Any discussion of the national companies is usually preceded by the caveat that those companies are expensive to operate and opera is extremely expensive. What the public always want to know is, \"Can we afford them?\" I realise that that is a very general question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105851",
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      "ID": 118
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 105851,
      "EditedText": "It has changed, but only at the margins and we keep it under constant review. Whether they take up too much of our budget is almost an impossible question to answer. We think that the budgets are right and that—given the level at which the companies operate—that is the kind of money that has to be invested in them.I know that different views exist across the country. I resist the suggestion that the companies cater simply for a small—you used the dread word \"elitist\"—audience. On the contrary, when you see some of the work that they do at the grass roots, that is not a fair judgment. I am very proud of our national companies; I think that they do a tremendous job for Scotland. The broader question, therefore, is whether we are committed to them. Do we support them at that level, or do we simply reassess their role and the level at which they operate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105853",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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      "ID": 118
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 105853,
      "EditedText": "I think that I have talked enough about that. It might be fair to let Tessa pick that up."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 105858,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 105861,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the merger now. In artistic and financial terms, what is the timetable for the merger and where will the savings come from? I have been advised that some of the savings that have been identified may be nebulous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 105863,
      "EditedText": "We will ask the companies about that later. How is the companies' independence protected? There was resistance to the merger in the first place, and I sense that they are like two struggling swimmers clinging together, as in a famous Shakespeare play. They may sink if they cling to each other too tightly, as they have slightly different management and financial cultures. It might not be an easy marriage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105866",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nod Knowles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 105866,
      "EditedText": "There is no doubt that savings are being made by merging certain administrative staffs. Economies of scale are being found."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 105867,
      "EditedText": "When we first discussed the merger, the debate centred on preserving the separate characters of the two companies. I think that that has been achieved. Neither company would say that it has lost its individuality. They have separate programmes, which are progressing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 105870,
      "EditedText": "It seems from your timetable that financial forecasting is a movable feast. On 24 September 1998, the budget deficit for 1998-99 was forecast at £151,000, against a projection of £121,000. It had changed to £136,000 by 11 November 1998, and to £104,000 by January 1999. The figures vary considerably almost every month. Is there a particular reason for that and do you feel that anything could be done to produce a clearer picture of where the figures will end up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 105881,
      "EditedText": "They were incorrect by something like 400 per cent, which is very worrying.I have one final question about accounts for next year. You talked about the availability of models. There are plans for Scottish Opera to operate next year on a planning cycle of roughly two years to accommodate contracts. Those plans include 11 productions, the estimated costs of which, as I understand it, have been provided to you. You know what the grant is to be next year, and you must be concerned that, at the moment, a deficit is projected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 105883,
      "EditedText": "We wish to support the work of the national companies; indeed, to see them expand. That is my position. Our concern is whether Scottish Opera might be planning a deficit of £1.5 million—or that equivalent—next year, in addition to what has happened this year. That would damage matters even more. It is therefore important that the Arts Council is a player in ensuring that confidence is restored."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 105885,
      "EditedText": "Mike Russell correctly drew attention to a report that the finance director would be leaving at the end of March. In the timetable, on 22 April, we find the entry:\"Actual draw down of cash departed from cash flow statement and SAC requested a correct version.\"Presumably, because you mention it in the timetable, the sum was significant enough for you to notice it. Had you picked up that the cash flow was different from what had been projected?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 105886,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We ask the organisations that we support to submit an annual cash flow, which is really a tool to assist me in managing our cash flow and to indicate the actual amounts of grant instalment to be paid each month."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 105894,
      "EditedText": "We ask each organisation that we support to provide us with a budget for each year and an estimate of its cash flow. The cash-flow statement indicates when the organisation would like to receive instalments of its grant across the 12-month period. Larger organisations, such as Scottish Opera, receive instalments every month; an annual festival might receive two or three payments during the year. We use those statements to draw down cash from the Scottish Executive. We consider whether the cash-flow statement looks reasonable in terms of what the organisation is asking for. We also consider the profile of the draw-down of cash to see whether it is evenly spread or whether a lot of money is being asked for at a certain point in the year. It is simply a tool to aid us in making the payments. If the demands change, we ask for a revision of that statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 105895,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that the grant would be given on a monthly basis unless a specific request was made for the payment to be brought forward?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 105896,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 105897,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, Scottish Opera is responsible for running up its deficit. As the body that monitors the accounts, how much responsibility does the Arts Council have? What is wrong with the relationship between Scottish Opera and the Arts Council?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 105901,
      "EditedText": "Let me get this clear. Scottish Opera's management is responsible for ensuring that the company keeps to its budget. Your responsibility is not to ensure that, but to monitor what Scottish Opera is doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 105903,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to get to the heart of the relationship that you have with the national companies, particularly Scottish Opera. Sandy Orr's submission suggests that the Arts Council is involved in the day-to-day management of Scottish Opera. He quotes several examples of that, including his own resignation, which he claims was forced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 105905,
      "EditedText": "Sandy Orr, in his submission to this committee. He suggests that the Arts Council is very hands-on, has replaced boards and, among other things, forced him out of his job."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 105909,
      "EditedText": "I am intrigued by your description of Scottish Opera as a very well managed company. It is a company that has required emergency funding 11 times in 32 years. It may be an artistically successful company—and well managed in that sense—but it could not be described as well managed in the sense in which that is usually meant. There is a basic problem with the paper that you submitted and with the information that we have received from Sandy Orr. I quote from Sandy Orr's statement. He has not yet made the statement to the committee, but he has provided it in writing. If he does not make the statement when he gives evidence I may be proved wrong. He says:\"The request by SAC for the Chair of SO to step down, amongst other actions, demonstrates the active nature of SAC involvement.\"The diary for 25 June on page 8 of the SAC paper says:\"Chairman of SO writes to Chairman of SAC. ‘I can appreciate the view that an outside Chairman should be appointed.'\"It is like comparing observations of the Kremlin. The truth lies somewhere between those two sets of words. Either the Scottish Arts Council suggested that Sandy Orr do the honourable thing and top himself in the interests of the company or Sandy is not telling the truth. Which is it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 105911,
      "EditedText": "You did not, therefore, request that he stand down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 105925,
      "EditedText": "That would not be a fair way to characterise it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 105928,
      "EditedText": "So you do not agree with Sandy Orr that \"it is comparatively easy\" for an opera company to live within its means."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 105932,
      "EditedText": "Brian, the last question is yours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 105933,
      "EditedText": "I want to refer to paragraph 2.7 on page 3 of your white paper, which, according to page 4 of your pink paper—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 105934,
      "EditedText": "We do not have pink or white papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 105935,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. I am referring to paragraph 2.7 on the paper headed \"National Companies\", and the way in which it relates to the information from 3 July 1998 given in the paper headed \"Working Relationship\". Paragraph 2.7 states:\"Shortly afterwards, SAC awarded additional and separate one-off Lottery funding (£795,000) to SO to cover part of its accumulated deficit and some of the cost of restructuring/merging with SB.\"Your 3 July reference breaks that down:\"Formal offer of Advancement funding\"—I understand what that means—\"of £795k to SO comprising of £600k grant, £120k for IT equipment & £75k for specific external advice/consultancies.\"Presumably, those consultancies were in relation to the advancement funding.Is the £600,000 of lottery money to go towards paying off a deficit, or is it for a particular project, or consultancy, or some other type of work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 105936,
      "EditedText": "The advancement programme is a lottery-funded scheme that encourages organisations that wish to go through changes. The main change in this case, of course, was the proposed merger of the technical, financial and other activities of the ballet and the opera. The £600,000 was a straightforward grant. It was not specified as having to go directly towards the deficit or to anything specific; it was just calculated as a sum of money that was needed to ease the process of the merger. The figure arose from a series of reports. One of the final recommendations from the national companies working party was that Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet should be considered for the programme, and the council agreed to award the grant. Part of the £600,000 was paid in the previous financial year. There is still an outstanding amount to be paid in the current financial year.As I think is fairly clear, the £120,000 was to allow the two companies to bring together control systems. As you said, £75,000 was to go towards, for example, legal advice and various other bits of consultancy. The money is from a specific lottery fund that is designed to aid this sort of process of change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 105940,
      "EditedText": "We would need to look at the situation, and we would need to have serious discussions with the board and management as to how the situation had arisen and what the factors behind it were. It would really be for the organisation in which the problem had arisen to deal with it. However, we would indicate where we felt that procedures had not been followed or where we felt that communication had not been appropriately carried out. If the problem were in our own organisation, we would clearly need to consider the way in which we had fulfilled our role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 105959,
      "EditedText": "I will address at an early stage some of the questions that underlie the inquiry into the national companies, which are concerns about ensuring that the national companies are properly funded. At some stage I will quote back to Sandy Orr his chairman's statement in 1996 about structural underfunding, which is a key issue.I will ask Scottish Ballet a question, which I think is important. Earlier, I quoted the findings of the Cogo-Fawcett report, which was critical of the financial control of Scottish Ballet and said that it had a corrosive effect on artistic performance. I contrasted that with the situation in which financial controls did not have a corrosive effect on anything because the evidence seems to be that they were not there. As Scottish Ballet people coming into this merger, how do you feel, knowing that your financial controls have been good up to now? Do you have concerns about the future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan McGhie (Scottish Ballet/Scottish Opera): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 105948,
      "EditedText": "If Tessa Jackson feels that she is the new kid on the block, I am not quite sure what I am, on day 8 of my appointment. I certainly did not expect to appear before such a committee so soon. However, I genuinely welcome the opportunity to attend this meeting. Three or four weeks ago, the Scottish Executive asked me whether I would be willing to undertake the role of chairman of the new joint venture company. After a little consideration, I readily agreed.I feel strongly about the importance of Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet. Indeed, the arts in general are a hugely important part of the whole cultural development of society in Scotland and beyond. The national companies are wonderful ambassadors for Scotland. Whether performing at the Theatre Royal, at a local school, or wherever, they have a hugely important role. I welcome the opportunity of taking Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet into the next millennium and on to better things.I could not have lived and worked in Scotland without being aware of the issues that face those organisations. I welcome this inquiry, as I welcome the review that the Scottish Arts Council will undertake over the next three months. We need quickly—and I mean quickly—to learn the important lessons of the past. We can then move on positively. In my business life, it has been my experience that there is a fine balance between allowing the creative spirit to move freely and retaining the right level of management control. My one regret is that I am an accountant. I hope that people will not regard me as an accountant in my present role. I want to work with the teams in both companies, and in the new joint company, to proceed positively.I want to highlight several issues that, in my early days of involvement with the two companies, I have identified. Quality is important. An organisation that does not strive for the topmost quality will not succeed in the long term. Therefore, I intend to support both organisations in striving to maintain and develop the quality of their delivery to their respective audiences. That is vitally important. Anything that is sub-optimal is not on my agenda. However, that has to be balanced against the constraints that are placed on the organisation. Would that our contribution were double or treble what it is, but that is not the reality. I am very aware that we have to recognise the practicalities of our situation.Earlier, there was a reference to change management. Over the years, I have worked with many organisations on issues related to that. It is not easy to explain to people what this process is about. I am not talking about boards of directors or senior management, but people at the grass roots: the stage manager, the dancer, the singer, the first violin and so. That is a huge challenge for the organisation, and one that I relish. However, I embark on it with some trepidation, because it is not easy. It is all about communicating confidence in the future, on a sound basis. I am committed to working towards that with this organisation.I am grateful to colleagues for joining me to answer your questions today. I hope that they are familiar to you. May I introduce Peg Beveridge, chair of Scottish Ballet; Norman Quirk, vice-chair and, at present, managing director of Scottish Ballet; Adrian Trickey, acting chief executive of Scottish Ballet/Scottish Opera; Ruth Mackenzie, with whose role the committee is, I am sure, familiar; and Sandy Orr, lately chair of Scottish Opera. Dr Chris Masters is unable to be present today, as he had a clash of engagements in his diary. However, I had a lengthy meeting with him on Monday, and he sends his apologies to the committee.I will be happy to take questions, as will my colleagues. We come to this meeting in the most positive spirit, looking forward to taking Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet on to even better things in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan McGhie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 105951,
      "EditedText": "I will make a couple of comments before asking Adrian to deal with the detailed point that you raise. It is very understandable that, when two organisations come together, there is a concern about identity. We must recognise that as a real issue and work very hard to ensure that it is foremost in our planning and thinking. These are two organisations that have developed their own identities over many years, and that is hugely valuable. The process of merger, therefore, must be seen to be supportive of and complementary to the ethos of the two organisations. I cannot speak in detail about how that is proceeding. I invite Adrian Trickey to make comments on that. It is important that I state that the ethos of both companies will be maintained."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 105953,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that there is an imbalance? Scottish Opera has traditionally had a full-time orchestra, whereas the Scottish Ballet has not. Scottish Opera is heavily involved with the property of the Theatre Royal, but Scottish Ballet is not. Is not there a danger that the smaller of the two companies will be dragged along by a group whose scale of working is going to make it difficult for the smaller company to balance their books? Scottish Opera costs something like £5.5 million before a note is sung or a costume bought. Is there a difference between the cultures and ways of working of the two groups?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan McGhie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 105956,
      "EditedText": "The three-month review will examine how deep the problem is. I recognise the comments made earlier about Scottish Opera requiring special deficit funding 11 times in 32 years. I think that I have got the figures correct. A lot of discussion is required between ourselves, as the new joint company, the Scottish Arts Council and the Scottish Executive to examine the funding and longer-term basis of financing the companies and to consider whether this is an appropriate model. We should have an open mind about that and explore all opportunities. One loss-making organisation—if that is what it is; I use your words, not mine—should not be allowed to drag down another organisation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peg Beveridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 105962,
      "EditedText": "There have been moments in Scottish Ballet's history when the financial issues came to the fore. We are in a much stronger position now than 12 months ago, as we have a permanent artistic director in place. Our financial forecasting was always super; we always had a thorough analysis of what things would cost. We felt as a board, and I think that the Scottish Arts Council would agree, that in the two-year hiatus between the leaving of Galina Samsova and her replacement by Robert North, it would have been inappropriate for the company to invest large sums in repertoire that might not be kept by an incoming artistic director."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peg Beveridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 105964,
      "EditedText": "I do not have access to specific detailed information, but I know that our dancers are the lowest paid in the UK."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 105965,
      "EditedText": "There are generally higher salaries at Scottish Opera. Perhaps this is a question for the new chairman or the acting chief executive rather than for you, but how will you address such issues in a culture of change? I am sure that the new chairman will agree that such issues cause the most irritation in any merger and can destabilise it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 105972,
      "EditedText": "Are you not committed to the 11 productions that you have said that you want to put on next year? Is it true that you have not entered into contractual commitments for any of them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 118
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 105974,
      "EditedText": "Which ones?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 105976,
      "EditedText": "Of the 11 productions on your list, which ones have contractual commitments? In case I need to remind you, the 11 are \"Tosca\", \"Macbeth\", a visit to Vienna, \"Salome\", \"Das Rheingold\", \"Orfeo ed Euridice\", \"L'Elisir d'Amore\", \"Madama Butterfly\", \"From the House of the Dead\", \"Jephtha\" and \"Don Giovanni\". Which of those are contractually committed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105977",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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    },
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 105977,
      "EditedText": "All those before \"Das Rheingold\" have substantial contractual commitments. That is not to say that every singer will be committed, but most of the casts of the productions will be firmly contractually committed, and inescapable financial obligations stem from those contracts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 105978,
      "EditedText": "Does that include \"Das Rheingold\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105981",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 105981,
      "EditedText": "If the company were to cease performance after putting \"Das Rheingold\" on the stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105984",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
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      "ContributionID": 105984,
      "EditedText": "The effect of what you said—I think that this would be undesirable—is that you would have to stop after \"Das Rheingold\" and do nothing for the rest of the year simply to break even."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105988",
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      "ID": 530
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 105988,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105990",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 105990,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that there are still a few further questions on the merger, so we should push on with those."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105991",
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      "ID": 530
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 105991,
      "EditedText": "I am a roving questioner; I had a meeting earlier this morning with some shellfish people, so I do not have a set question. Before I ask my question, I want to distance myself from my colleague's comments, because I think that the artistic repertoire is very much your province. It does not behove politicians to get over-involved in that. None the less, I welcome Peg Beveridge's comments, as I firmly believe that prudence and efficiency do not necessarily impinge on artistic quality.I am interested in the merger; I think that all of us are anxious for it to be successful. I have no doubt that you can manage aspects of the merger, Adrian, given the various imbalances. You talked about the administrative merger and the economies of scale associated with it. What thoughts have you given to a merger of other aspects of production? I totally agree that artistic integrity has to be kept separate, but I should think that substantial economies of scale could be made in the back-up aspects of staging a performance, such as lighting and scenery."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 105992,
      "EditedText": "I think that you are referring to the company's technical support areas; they form part of the merger project. I agree that there are some opportunities for making efficiency savings in those areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105994",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 105994,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I am quite certain that the merger process is under way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105996",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 105996,
      "EditedText": "To what extent do any cancelled productions at the Theatre Royal impinge on either company's budget or deficit? Both companies use the Theatre Royal and tour to a greater or lesser extent. There is no merged company at the moment, so if no income is coming into the Theatre Royal, in whose accounts does that cost appear?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105997",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 105997,
      "EditedText": "The Theatre Royal is, in effect, a wholly owned subsidiary of Scottish Opera. Post merger, it would be owned—directly or indirectly—by the joint company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106001",
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      "ID": 530
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1837,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 106001,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to more specific questions on the opera company."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106017",
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 106017,
      "EditedText": "Certainly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 106006,
      "EditedText": "Was that board meeting on 24 June the one at which your resignation was accepted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 106007,
      "EditedText": "Indeed. The resignation of my chairman was also put on the table then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 106012,
      "EditedText": "At the board meeting on 17 September, questions were raised about the company's accounting policy in respect of the expensive new productions. That may be relevant to the issue, but I think that it is a sideline. Let me give a chronology of the finances of Scottish Opera. You were in a key position during the period to which the figures refer, so you may want to comment on them.On 22 April, the company made a forecast that the net borrowing requirement would be £849,000 and that an overdraft facility would not be required because the Scottish Arts Council would advance its grant. We now know that the full figures for the financial year were not notified to the board until 24 June, two months away from the April meeting.We then discover that on 14 July, two weeks later, the mafia has changed again and Scottish Opera now requires a bank overdraft of £497,000 in addition to the £849,000. On that date, \"Macbeth\" is included in the figures as a net cash contributor. However, three weeks later, on 10 August, the figure has gone up by a further £200,000. The bank overdraft limit is going to be breached, the bank has to increase the overdraft facility. According to the Scottish Arts Council,\"The deterioration on cash was partly linked to Macbeth and it was confirmed co-production income was now not due for some time.\"As I understand it, no co-production income has been received in the project to date. That was the situation on 10 August. By 17 September, Adrian Trickey was questioning the\"accounting policy in respect of new productions\".On 29 September, the\"Interim Chief Executive telephoned SAC to say there were serious problems\".During that period we have gone from a forecast balance on 22 April of £0, because no overdraft was required, to minus £497,000 on 14 July, and minus £697,000 on 10 August. Then, on 5 October, the sky falls and a figure of minus £3.275 million is quoted. The only factor identified in the document and in the submission from Scottish Opera is as follows:\"The components of this serious financial situation have been: accumulated deficits planned to be maintained, and increased; the need to pay for a major project not budgeted to be a charge on current income\".I assume that that refers to \"Macbeth\". The submission continues:\"and short-falls on income—sponsorship, co-production shares, hires and rents\".A key component of that has been the decision to undertake the production of \"Macbeth\".You have said that you are able to go round the world with Luc Bondy in your pocket and people will speak to you who would not otherwise speak to you. Do you think that the price of that has done considerable damage to the reputation of opera in Scotland, because people now say—wrongly, I think—that Scotland cannot afford a major opera company because of this financial situation? In retrospect, do you think that an error has been made?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 106013,
      "EditedText": "It is important, and difficult, to be clear about the difference between cash flows and budgets. It is a complicated subject that will be a key area for the forthcoming inquiry. If I had the chance to go back and revisit the decision, with 20:20 vision, to commission \"Macbeth\", would I do anything differently? No, I would not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 106014,
      "EditedText": "Even though it meant that the Scottish Executive would have to find £2.2 million? A large number of people in Scotland say that the future of opera in Scotland is under question and there is a feeling of considerable aggravation and frustration about the fact that the Scottish Office bailed out Scottish Opera 11 times in 32 years, which is immensely regrettable. In retrospect, you and your colleagues might reflect on whether your actions brought about the situation. I find it curious that a range of organisations think that the situation seems to have been a sort of victimless crime. No one says, \"I was there. I saw the smoking gun.\" No one can tell us what happened. Ruth, do you and your colleagues not think that, in retrospect—be generous about this—decisions have been made that should not have been made and that are going to damage opera in Scotland in the long term?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr (Scottish Opera): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 106016,
      "EditedText": "May I be permitted to say something?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 106018,
      "EditedText": "The issue of responsibility has been mentioned a few times today, and I think that it would be appropriate for me to take my share. I was chairman of Scottish Opera for seven years, which accounts for some of Mr Russell's 32 years. Beyond that, I was on the board for two years and on the Scottish Arts Council for six years. I know quite a bit, at first hand, about at least half of those 32 years.What Ruth said about the nature of financing the major arts companies is important. It is hugely damaging and to be regretted that people think that arts companies are badly managed. However, that perception is inevitable if we persist with the current system. One of the benefits of having a Scottish Parliament is that we can sit in Edinburgh and discuss the situation in open court, knowing that we are talking through this committee to the funding bodies and to those who are in a position to do something about the situation. In the past, of course, we had to be routed through London and the system was so obscure that it was not possible to have fundamental debates. Now we can make our own decisions in Scotland, which is an opportunity that is hugely welcome.I want to raise two points of tension. I think that tension is generated by the system and, no matter how much we monitor, there will still be situations of deficit arising in arts companies. Arts companies have no reserves; they empty the bucket every year. A system evolved in which Scottish Opera and the Arts Council countenanced and indeed encouraged deficits. A reason why Scottish Opera hit the wall in the past few weeks was its considerable inherited deficit that had been targeted and budgeted for. In all my years as chairman of Scottish Opera, the company never went over its budget, except when there were shortfalls in indicated public sector financing. There were deficits when the Arts Council did not include inflation in its funding; in other words, absolute standstill. It is important for the committee to look back as well as forward, because it always comes back to Mr Russell's point that something is wrong. What is wrong is the system. The companies are doing very well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 106019,
      "EditedText": "I agree entirely with you. The suggestions that you have made in your submission are very important. There is undoubtedly something wrong with the present system. The committee's task is to examine the funding of all the national companies and to try to come up with a better system. However, as someone from another artistic discipline, I have to say that not only is there considerable public anger at public funds being used in this way, but people in other artistic communities and disciplines are angry. Those people try to be creative within the limitations that have been placed upon them and it makes them angry to see others being rewarded for what they consider to be bad behaviour. If people are constantly rewarded for bad behaviour, they go on being bad.The way to surmount that problem is, first, to analyse what has happened. There has been a major failure, either by individuals or corporately, to prevent this situation from happening. The paper on the working relationship between Scottish Opera and the Arts Council proves that. Secondly, we need a new system of transparency as well as of funding so that we know what is happening. One of the most interesting suggestions I have heard recently is that, as a non-competitive business in Scotland, Scottish Opera should publish its monthly accounts and cash flow on its website to let everyone see what it spends. Given some of your forecasting difficulties, that might not improve the situation, but at least things would be transparent. It has taken this committee and many individuals much effort to find out the truth."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 106025,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the situation is best left for the inquiry, which I completely welcome. I agree that this was not a victimless crime and that we should not be sitting here discussing the problem. However, a level of understanding of the shape and nature of those businesses would be helpful. No commercial business would be conducted in such a difficult and dangerous area, starting with a deficit and with no reserves. It is important to disseminate that fact to people so that they understand the situation, which they compare to a commercial situation and which they say is appalling. The system provides an opportunity to do that. I am not saying that it is not appalling, but that people cannot believe how we got into this situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 106027,
      "EditedText": "The May plan, which was agreed with SAC, was a plan to increase the deficit. In financial terms, that was obviously not a plan that we wanted to adopt. It was a practical compromise that, it was agreed, would be supported by SAC on the basis that there was no more money to support Scottish Opera. As Graham Berry said, there is a continuous dialogue with the Arts Council on cash flows and performance, which is right and proper. That dialogue is transparent, although we do not publish it on the website, and every year a very full annual report is published, which we disseminate as widely as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 106032,
      "EditedText": "The problem arises from trying to land absolutely on the square at the end of each year. Scottish Opera is not allowed to keep reserves. It can build in some contingency, but only about £100,000 to £150,000. That is a tiny amount. If there is a structural change in a local authority, problems can be caused: Glasgow City Council reduced Scottish Opera's grant by 50 per cent. Public funding, curiously enough, has been less predictable than funding from the private sector.On behalf of all of the people who have worked so long and hard in Scottish Opera, I tell the committee that, in relation to private funding, the budgets have been met. I would like the committee to scrutinise those budgets because it is important for the building of public confidence that that message gets across.Public funding should also be examined. There have been unpredictable reductions, the latest of which was at the turn of the year. Our original three-year plan depended on there being a certain level of grant at that time, but the award that was made was substantially less and eliminated the inflation-linked increase. That applied to all the national companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 106038,
      "EditedText": "The point that you are making is whether it is correct to set a budget in which the target is a deficit. When the chairman says, \"We have met our targets,\" quite often our targets—as a bottom line—have been an agreed deficit with our main funding partners. It is an achievement to meet an agreed target, even when it is a deficit. You ask me whether it is appropriate. Of course, there is a sense in which it is highly undesirable. However, it is not possible for arts organisations to say, \"Well then, we are not going to do it,\" because then you are facing a precipice; you are talking about taking a company out of trading. It seems that you have very few options. I am not saying that anyone is to blame for it, but that is the case."
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan McGhie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 106040,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I do not want to interrupt the flow of your questioning, but I have sympathy with the public at large. Deficits, cash flows—the terminology is difficult. What is the real problem? Are we losing money? Ultimately, annuality—and the challenges that it brings—is one of the biggest problems in the public sector. Resource accounting, which will come in in the near future, might help. The fundamental issue, and the challenge for my board, will be to look not just at the current year, but—with the Arts Council and all concerned—at what the medium-term funding capacity is for this business and what we can raise from other resources. We then have to plan within those constraints. Do not get me wrong; I will be pushing the Arts Council for a bigger share of the cake—that is my job, and it will be up to it to judge. Ultimately, we have to look at the matter on a medium-term basis, as it is a medium-term business. That supports the argument for going on to different forms of funding, but ultimately, the situation is one of cash in, cash out, over the medium term, and we must balance the books within that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 106043,
      "EditedText": "The board does not approve whether we produce \"Tosca\" as opposed to \"L'Elisir d'Amore\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 106048,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Does the financial budget include income?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 106049,
      "EditedText": "Financial outturn, including targets for raising sponsorship—for which the company has a fantastic record—is approximately £1 million a year. To fail on sponsorship would be a serious matter. It is not just about monitoring and control, but about going out there and getting the money in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 106055,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, that method of accounting has been justified in cases where a production had a number of performances in March and a number of performances in April, and money was carried forward. I think that I am correct in saying that there is no precedent, in your company, for doing that when the production takes place in August, and the next production is not due until the following financial year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106064",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 106064,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 106065,
      "EditedText": "Is that the income that you expect in 2000-01 of £300,000?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 106067,
      "EditedText": "I think that Mr Russell might be looking at a particular figure—I hear him quoting £300,000. The £300,000 of co-production income is what we expect to receive towards \"Macbeth\". Approximately half of that will be from Vienna, and the other half will be from Bordeaux—the other co-producer that Ruth Mackenzie mentioned.As Ruth says, those payments are quite separate from those from Vienna for taking the company there to perform. The basis of our going there to perform is that we are paid sufficient to cover all the marginal costs of taking the company there and any fees and expenses arising from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 106068,
      "EditedText": "Even if you had received your £300,000, the cost of \"Macbeth\" to you—from the figures that you have for this year—would still be over £300,000. You would still have gone into deficit and you would not have met your budgets. Is not that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 106069,
      "EditedText": "It would have put a strain on the cash—and indeed it did. The cash is not the same as the budget."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106078",
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      "ID": 530
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 106078,
      "EditedText": "My question is for Mr McGhie and Mr Trickey. I quote Sandy Orr again:\"It is comparatively easy in the short term for arts companies to play safe and live within their means\". I know that it is the duty of the national companies to put on productions of which we can be proud and which reflect well on Scotland. Is it also your duty and responsibility to live within your means?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106079",
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    },
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan McGhie: ",
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      "ContributionID": 106079,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106080",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 106080,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that concise answer. I thank Duncan McGhie and his colleagues for coming this morning and for answering our questions. I regret that we have not had more time to go into some of the other work that your organisation is doing in education and social inclusion. The committee might want to consider that at a later date. However, we are aware that those things cannot go ahead unless the companies operate within the budgets that are laid down. We feel strongly that we have a responsibility to the public purse. We must have answers when there are difficulties, not only to assist you to get out of them, but to ensure that the same thing does not happen in the future. The costs must be found from someone else's finances, so the opportunity is lost to use that money for something else. We are concerned about the situation, but we want to see a positive result for Scotland's national companies. Thank you again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106083",
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 106083,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105827",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 17 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:23"
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting resumed in public."
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 105831,
      "EditedText": "Is Brian Monteith able to bring us up to date on the petition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2152,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 2152,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 105833,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Do members have any questions for Brian?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 105847,
      "EditedText": "That question is raised and discussed constantly. You have to decide what level of national companies you want, whether an audience exists for them, whether they produce work of the desired artistic quality and whether they have a role to play in Scotland's cultural life.To us, all the evidence suggests that there is a demand and that the companies make a major contribution, for some of the reasons that I stated earlier. You then have to consider what the companies cost and whether you can afford them. We examine those questions all the time. There is no question but that the national companies take a substantial proportion of our budget; they account for 46 per cent of what we spend on the arts in Scotland. You then have to ask whether that money is well spent. To answer that, you have to look at the work that they do, the audiences that they reach and their artistic contribution—in and outside Scotland. Inevitably, that is a subjective judgment, but we monitor it closely and take soundings.We talk to local authorities, in particular, about the work of the national companies. I pay tribute to the crucial relationship that has been established between the national companies and local authorities. By and large, we believe that the national companies are well managed and that they do excellent work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tessa Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 105854,
      "EditedText": "In the national companies paper we outline how and under what categories we monitor. Monitoring is subjective to a degree, but one has to monitor under declared areas of work, both for the company and for the funder. We have explained how we examine artistic activity, as well as educational and outreach work.The contact that we have during the year addresses those issues. It does not necessarily give anything as analytical as scoring, but it will give a very clear trace of the work that has been done and the company's own evaluation of that work, as well as that of our assessors who, as is detailed in the paper, consider a company's work and submit reports. The company can see those reports—this is the case for all organisations, not just Scottish Opera or Scottish Ballet—although they will not know the author. That condition is designed to prevent people feeling that they cannot be frank.We have several ways of finding out what people feel about the quality of work; it is not just the opinion of SAC officers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 105855,
      "EditedText": "Will you, as a new director, reflect on monitoring and financial performance? It might be something that you will treat as a priority if you consider the fact that in 11 of the past 32 years special deficit funding has been required for Scottish Opera. It is not simply a question of the proportion of the Scottish Arts Council budget that goes to national companies; there are regularly occasions on which that money has to be increased. There must be something wrong with the system of monitoring, control and supervision, if in the years 1967, 1968, 1972, 1977, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1992, 1996, 1997 and 1999 special deficit funding was required. The company had a balance sheet that did not show an accumulated deficit in only two of those years, in both of which it received additional funding. Will you—at least ambitiously—say that you will ensure that that does not happen every second year from now on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 105857,
      "EditedText": "That does not answer my specific question, which was a positive one for the SAC to take on board. Surely, given that list of years, even though the monitoring of all your companies may be effective, the value of that is almost set at nought if the overspend on your biggest company is so great as to require deficit funding of that degree and frequency? Is the SAC concerned about that and is it considering it as a priority issue? Logically, I would have thought that you would have to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 105859,
      "EditedText": "That was precisely the issue that we addressed when we set up the national companies working group under Neil McIntosh. In view of the historical problem, we wanted to try to achieve cost savings and more efficient working arrangements. That led to the question of merger, which may seem now as something that is set. However, in those days it was inconceivable that Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet could come together.We have achieved a huge amount of co-operation between the two, and the merger is still on course; despite everything that has happened, it will go ahead. I believe that it will form a stable basis on which the two companies can operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nod Knowles (Scottish Arts Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 105862,
      "EditedText": "According to the timetable that has been set, the merger will be in effect by the end of this financial year. The people who have recently taken over the operation of the merger, such as the interim chief executive, are seeking to move it forward as fast as possible.The savings that were signalled 18 months ago by the national companies co-ordinating group were to come from the merging of administrative and technical back-up staff. There is no doubt that that will lead to a certain amount of cost saving. The figures are still being produced, as a great deal of work remains to finalise the merger. At no time was there any suggestion that savings on artistic costs would be made as a result of the merger, although in future years the joint management of the company and the various artistic directors might discuss an artistic merger. That may or may not result in cost savings—it may result in projects that do not produce cost savings but have greater artistic value. The administrative savings, however, will be realised and remain an important reason for the merger."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nod Knowles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 105864,
      "EditedText": "That is what the management of change is about. Specialists have already been involved—the new chairman, I believe, is an expert in the management of change—to ensure that the companies' cultures come together. That is what happens when any two organisations merge. These companies have far more in common than they have differences. They are performing arts companies with the same basic aims: to put on performances and to serve the Scottish public artistically, with educational work and with all kinds of off-stage projects. I do not believe that the merger is unfeasible. There is a strong possibility that, in time, it will bed down happily."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 105872,
      "EditedText": "You made an important point about financial monitoring. I have worked with you myself and I know how assiduous you are in such matters. Let me ask you to reflect on this: the Scottish Arts Council information document says, on 11 November 1998, that\"SO's Finance Director will leave at the end of March.\"As Brian Monteith mentioned, that year the deficit was comparatively small. On 22 April 1999, the document goes on to say that\"SAC receives 1st cash forecast for 1999/00. This indicated a net borrowing requirement at the end of March 2000 of £849k.\"Two pages later, on 14 July, we discover that the corrected financial statement \"indicated that the advance required from the SAC remained at £849k but that a bank overdraft of £497k would also be required.\"The figures have gone up by roughly 50 per cent, have they not? That was between April and July. On 10 August, less than a month later,\"A further revision indicated that the cash requirement . . . had increased by £200k to the SAC advance of £849k and the Bank £697k.\"That is an increase of £200,000 in three weeks. On the following page, a board minute for 17 September has been provided by Scottish Opera; it will be important later in the meeting. That minute notes that the\"accounting policy in respect of . . . new productions would need to be considered in relation to MACBETH.\"On 29 September, Scottish Opera's interim chief executive telephoned the Scottish Arts Council to say that there were serious problems and that a meeting was required.At the bottom of page 10, the section on cash flows for 1999-2000 show that, at 5 October, the forecast balance for 31 March 2000 was minus £3.275 million. We have gone from a situation in April where everything was absolutely fine and there was no need of an overdraft, to a situation at 5 October which forecast a balance of minus £3.275 million. Before I ask you about next year's figures, would you agree that the absence of a finance director was one of the factors affecting that change?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 105873,
      "EditedText": "I shall make a general point before allowing Graham Berry to answer more detailed questions. The picture that emerges is that there was a problem, but a manageable one. At every point until those later dates, the situation was serious but manageable. Then came a point at which things got out of control. That was when the situation was reported to us and to the Scottish Executive, and that, of course, is why we are here. That is the general picture that emerges from the monitoring of the figures, but Graham may want to elaborate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 105877,
      "EditedText": "We can find out simply by looking at the list of those who attended. Nod Knowles was present. So, on 17 September\"the overall situation was favourable in relation to budget.\"Twelve days later, Scottish Opera's interim chief executive telephoned the Scottish Arts Council to say that there were serious problems. Within a week of that, you knew that the problem was a deficit of £3.275 million. I ask you to reflect on the fact that there is no finance director in post. How was it that, in 12 days, the bottom dropped out of Scottish Opera's financial world? How was that possible in terms of reporting systems?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 105879,
      "EditedText": "Very substantially incorrect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 105880,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 105882,
      "EditedText": "Yes. As you know, we have been given three months in which to look hard at those figures and projections, in the light of present circumstances. In the course of that, all those questions must be addressed. We are under no illusion that that is a serious operation. We have to come up with rock-solid proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 105889,
      "EditedText": "Given the points that I raised earlier about the fluctuations in the budgeting for the deficit, would you accept that there is a clear need for Scottish Opera to monitor cash flow on a monthly basis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 105890,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that Scottish Opera is managing it much more regularly than that. Our need to monitor the cash flow is less than its, so I am certain that it is monitoring its cash flow much more regularly than monthly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 105891,
      "EditedText": "I notice that you—not you personally, but the Scottish Arts Council—contacted Scottish Opera by letter, requesting an update and correction of the latest cash flow. I see, unless it appears earlier elsewhere, that that was back in April. According to your timetable, you received a revised cash flow statement on 14 July. Was any information given to you before then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 105892,
      "EditedText": "I cannot recall specifically, but there would probably have been no need for further detail if the later cash payments between those dates remained the same as the figures in the original version. It is just that one of the earlier figures had to be corrected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 105893,
      "EditedText": "I wish to ask a basic question. Within the report, references are made—I am not sure whether they originate from you or from Scottish Opera—to the fact that, at the beginning of the financial year, Scottish Opera often starts without any reserves, and to the impact that that has. Can you explain how the Scottish Arts Council gives the grant to the opera company and how that is programmed throughout the year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 105900,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that at all. I think that it has a good board with a record of good management."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 105907,
      "EditedText": "Are you happy that Scottish Opera was a well managed company that took responsibility for its own accounts? The accounts are a disaster area. Whose responsibility is that? I am not necessarily trying to pin the blame on any one person; I just want to get a rough idea. Is anyone taking any responsibility for the accounts? If there is no hands-on management, that is a problem. We are in charge of public money. We must make sure that it is spent wisely. I am trying to work out whether that is the SAC's job or the job of the individual national companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 105908,
      "EditedText": "It is our responsibility to ensure that the money that we invest in all arts organisations is well spent and properly accounted for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 105912,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 105914,
      "EditedText": "I will let David Taylor answer the question about Scottish Ballet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Taylor (Scottish Arts Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 105915,
      "EditedText": "That observation was made by a consultant. Scottish Ballet had a good track record of managing its accounts and rarely went into deficit without good reason—for example, the box office not performing up to scratch—but the figure was always manageable. The board often took action to remedy the situation if that was predicted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 105918,
      "EditedText": "Will the people of Scotland, who know all about the deficits and to whom we are ultimately responsible, agree with that definition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 105921,
      "EditedText": "I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 105922,
      "EditedText": "Good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 105927,
      "EditedText": "All arts companies live on the edge. The company law structure within which arts organisations work is perhaps seriously flawed. They have no access to shared capital, no shareholders to go back to for rights issues or extra money and they are constantly living within very restricted budgets. They also have ambitions that sometimes outstrip the resources available. It is a constant balancing act which arts organisations have to keep up and which we have to monitor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham Berry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 105929,
      "EditedText": "No, it is not; it is a difficult job. It could be easy for a company with a very limited programme and activity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105942",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Magnus Linklater: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 105942,
      "EditedText": "We initially report to the Scottish Executive. I have no doubt that the whole process will be well scrutinised, possibly by this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 105949,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. As I have already said, we must be out of this room by 12:30, so I would appreciate it if you could keep your answers concise. We will begin with questions on the merger situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey (Scottish Ballet/Scottish Opera): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 105952,
      "EditedText": "The timetable is proceeding with the aim of completing the merger of the administrative and technical support functions of the opera and the ballet by no later than the end of the current financial year, 31 March 2000. From 1 April there will be a single organisation that will provide overall management. It will work under a single board, led by Duncan, and will share common technical, marketing, fund-raising, finance and administrative support services.Merger is an interesting word because it can mean so many different things. At different times different possibilities have been explored regarding the thinking on and planning for the association and alliance of the two companies. We are working towards the provision of common support services that will realise some economies of scale, although we cannot make extravagant claims in that respect. An opportunity will be provided to share best practice and, as a result, to improve the quality of support and to deal with the factors that affect the cost of support. We will support two artistic companies that will—where that is appropriate in the context of past traditions and strengths—have strong identities of their own in terms of both performance in theatre and outreach work.In some areas, such as development of education work, there are great possibilities for the sharing of and overlap of artistic skills, as well as for the sharing of support and management. I should emphasise that we are concentrating on merging the technical and administrative support and services because that must be completed by 31 March 2000. We have had strong indications from SAC that funding for 2000-01 will only come via the channel of the merged company supporting both artistic enterprises."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peg Beveridge (Scottish Ballet): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 105960,
      "EditedText": "I am less concerned about the future now than I was 12 months ago. I am confident that a strong financial team will be in place. For as long as I have been involved with Scottish Ballet, we have had a thorough and effective finance director. I am confident that the search process that is going on for the joint merged company will produce a finance director with an even greater ability to control the finances and still allow the creative and artistic sense to come forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 105963,
      "EditedText": "You come from a culture in which your company lives within its means, or attempts to live within its means—there may be small deficits but no difficulties that projections or changed circumstances would not account for. You are merging with a company whose track record is different, for whatever reason—I do not criticise it at this stage. As I understand it, there are considerable differences in the salaries that are paid by the two companies. Am I right to assume that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peg Beveridge: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 105966,
      "EditedText": "It would be more appropriate for Adrian Trickey to answer that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 105970,
      "EditedText": "Nor, as the Scottish Arts Council said this morning, is it about putting the companies on to a firmer financial footing. I do not see from the papers or from the evidence that you have given any indication of how that could happen in the short term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 105971,
      "EditedText": "Let me take that up in the context of your previous question, which I did not get around to answering. You referred to the budget for next year. We do not have anything that we could dignify with the name of a budget for 2000-01. However, we have prepared some estimates of the cost of operating the joint company through that year and the following two years. We need to plan ahead and to estimate the costs. The proposed work programmes, inherited from the ancestor companies, tend to drive the costs of the merged company. However, those programmes are not immutable. Ultimately, what we do has to be tailored to the resources. In response to requests to cost the planned programmes for the merged company, we have provided the Scottish Arts Council with information, which indicates that the cost of those programmes will be greater than the previous grant indications in the two-year funding agreements and as part of the four-year plan. I can go into some of the reasons for that, although it may not be helpful to the committee at this stage. At the moment, we are costing those programmes, which is not to say that those are budgets or that the merged company is committed to going ahead with the programmes. We have to manage within the resources that are allocated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 105975,
      "EditedText": "All productions that will take place before the end of the current performing season—July 2000—are firmly committed. This is an area of interest to anyone involved in the planning side of arts organisations. The arts calendar tends to run from September through July and is planned on that basis. The last three months of that planning year are always the first three to four months of the financial year. One always finds, in any arts organisation of any size and complexity, that there is little scope for last-minute manoeuvring to reduce costs at the beginning of the financial year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 105983,
      "EditedText": "I have not studied that. We could look into that for you and reply in writing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 105986,
      "EditedText": "But that is what your figures say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 105989,
      "EditedText": "I would not like to say, here and now, that that would be a way of breaking even on the year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 105998,
      "EditedText": "Is it the case that a Christmas show was cancelled last year? If so, did that contribute to Scottish Opera's deficit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Norman Quirk (Scottish Ballet): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 105999,
      "EditedText": "I think that you are referring to our new production of \"Aladdin\", which was originally scheduled for this Christmas. When we examined the financial implications of that, however, we decided that we would be better placed if we moved it to the following Christmas. To a large extent, that decision depended on theatre availability—not specifically the Theatre Royal, but other theatres. Giving the production a greater Christmas focus had a substantial impact on the projected box-office figures. The cancellation of provisional bookings left an opening at the Theatre Royal, which it was able fill with another company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 106000,
      "EditedText": "Okay. That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 106011,
      "EditedText": "The whole budget would have been included in the figures that were seen on 24 June. As with normal accounting policy for the company at that time, there would have been a carry-forward of the production costs, as opposed to the performing costs, into the following budget, 2000-01."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106003",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie (Scottish Opera): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 106003,
      "EditedText": "That question is most appropriately directed at me, convener.There is nothing in particular to say about the commissioning of \"Macbeth\", so I shall make a couple of general remarks about the way in which Scottish Opera has put together its programme, before I refer specifically to that performance.As you have heard—and it is important to underline this—Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet have had to plan much later than would be normal for companies of their size. When I started work at Scottish Opera, it was noticeable that fellow general directors in Europe would plan productions three or four years in advance. That has not been possible for Scottish Opera, and I want the reason for that to be emphasised in the forthcoming inquiry into long-term planning. It is incredibly important, both for finances and artistic opportunities—which are not oppositional—that the issue of long-term planning is addressed.The process of planning the current season began in 1998. That is extremely late. The process of planning an opera season is a complicated matrix, in which new productions must be balanced with revivals—that is, productions in which we have already invested. There must be a balance of productions that will make full use of the chorus—which means that some productions will not be able to use the chorus while others have to use it. We must establish a good pattern of work. We must also think about audience needs and balance the repertoire between—crudely speaking—Italian and German works, with those from other countries making a third category. Finally, a balance must be achieved between producing work by dead people and ensuring that we are fulfilling our duties in commissioning or reviving work by living composers who are developing the art form. The process is complicated. I am sorry to labour the point, but it is useful for the committee to appreciate that. Additionally, Scottish Opera has been fortunate in that the Edinburgh international festival has regularly invited the company to open a production at the festival. As well as all the issues that I have mentioned, Scottish Opera has to consider what production would be most appropriate for the festival and what would fit into its programme.The idea for Scottish Opera's production of \"Macbeth\" emerged through dialogue with the Edinburgh international festival; it is fair to say that it was led by the desire to work with the director Luc Bondy. Luc Bondy is widely considered to be one of the best directors in the world. He is certainly one of the directors who are most in demand from international opera companies. Because he is in demand throughout the world, it is a challenge to get him to commit himself to a project; it is even more of a challenge to get him to carry out a project. He has visited the Edinburgh international festival regularly with visiting companies, undertaking work both in the theatre—for which he is perhaps best known—and in opera.He already had a relationship with the Edinburgh Festival Theatre, and he had a relationship with me from my previous job at Nottingham Playhouse. Back in 1997, he indicated informally to Brian McMaster and me that \"Macbeth\" was one of the operas that he most wanted to put on. It is a particularly appropriate opera to have in Scottish Opera's repertoire, as it could be defined as a Scottish opera, as well as a fine piece that Richard Armstrong, our music director and an internationally renowned conductor of Verdi, is superbly equipped to conduct.In summer 1998, Luc Bondy attended the Edinburgh festival with his theatre production of \"Phèdre\". It was then that we managed to commit him to the project. That is very late for a project that was planning to première in summer 1999. Once we had secured Luc, we were able to start discussions with colleagues internationally about setting up co-productions. Again, I draw your attention to the shortness of the timetable. As I said earlier, most colleagues work three or four years ahead.Our intention with \"Macbeth\" was to provide the Edinburgh festival, Scottish Opera and the communities of Scotland with a world-class example of a Scottish opera. We wanted to ensure that the net costs of \"Macbeth\", once the co-productions and the exploitation of the work had been taken into account, would be no greater than those of an average new production by Scottish Opera. There has been much talk today about our being an ambassador for Scotland, and we wanted an artistic product that would demonstrate our abilities in that regard. There is a final useful effect. A calling card such as \"Macbeth\" opens doors. I noticed that people around the world started talking to me who would not have done so if we did not have Luc Bondy in our pocket.I should say that our targets have been achieved. Generally speaking, the production received outstanding reviews, both in mainland Europe and in England and Scotland. Its net cost will not exceed that of an average production by Scottish Opera. It has also secured an invitation to Scottish Opera to take the entire production to the Vienna festival, which is the richest festival in Europe and is considered by many to be the most prestigious. I am sure that Brian McMaster will not mind my saying that. That is a major coup."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 106015,
      "EditedText": "I wish to cover three points as briefly as I can.First, Mike Russell raised several times the absolutely fundamental point about the Scottish Office bailing out Scottish Opera 11 times in 32 years—fundamental to the costs of funding an opera company. No one around the table can speak to or take responsibility for all those 11 bail-outs over a period of 32 years—no one can. We must begin to examine some of the general issues as to why Scottish Opera has had bail-outs.I think that it is interesting that Mike Russell used the word bail-out. If one has structural under-funding, if one is not able to build up reserves, if one cannot draw upon working capital to invest in productions and if one cannot forward-plan in the same way as one's competitors, it is inevitable that one will hit bail-outs. I agree that it is regrettable that we regard the situation in that light. The committee has an opportunity, with the inquiry, to consider fundamentally the way in which large-scale arts organisations are funded. Secondly, while I absolutely cannot take responsibility for 32 years, I take my former role as chief executive very seriously. I entirely accept that I am responsible for the events that took place while I was chief executive. I want to be very clear on that point. It has yet to be demonstrated whether I was holding the gun. However, I would like to be clear that, in my view, the job description of a chief executive is that the buck stops here.I cannot remember my third point now—sorry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 106026,
      "EditedText": "Several colleagues want to follow up on that, but I would like to ask a question. You seem to accept that the way that funding was provided was not as you wanted it to be, in that there would always be an issue about running close to the edge, and, on occasion, falling over it. How many times were representations made to SAC or to the Scottish Executive regarding changes to the provision of finance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0745912+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 106028,
      "EditedText": "Were you not uncomfortable knowing what damage that could do to your reputation as an opera company?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 106029,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The May plan was difficult and challenging and we would not have agreed to it without the support of the Arts Council."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 106030,
      "EditedText": "As Graham Berry reported earlier, the company offered a range of three-year financial models. The SAC chose one at their May meeting, based on the level of resources that the council could find to support Scottish Opera. It was not, of course, the plan that would have been most readily achievable by Scottish Opera, nor was it the one that would offer the greatest comfort to the officers charged with its achievement. The plan projected accumulated deficits of up to £1.2 million by the end of this year for the ballet and the opera combined. That is a high level of budgeted deficit that would have greater implications in terms of cash.The plan was approved by the Scottish Arts Council at the end of May and by the board of Scottish Opera in June. To some degree, that accounts for the development of the figure work which was referred to earlier. Admittedly, that figure work has a start point later in the year than one might wish. It is based on unapproved draft plans, which were then refined and approved by SAC and by Scottish Opera. The figures then had more work done on them, as has been referred to several times."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C106031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 106031,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to structural underfunding. As you say, Mr Orr, you have been with Scottish Opera for a long time. How much variation has there been in opera funding through the years? My impression is that it is predictable. You know well in advance what the company's income will be and what the grant from the SAC will be, and that will not change much from year to year. If the budget is roughly £10 million, you can predict that it will be somewhere in that region next year. It has been predictable for a long time, but—given the small variation in those figures—you are saying that you cannot cope. Your ambition seems to exceed the limitations that are placed on you by money. Although I agree that we should be artistically ambitious, it seems that you do not accept those limitations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 106033,
      "EditedText": "When I became the director of Scottish Opera, there had been years of inquiry by the national companies working party and years of uncertainty about the level of grant. There had been discussions about whether the company should go part time and about the mergers of orchestras. I join Sandy in saying that, in those circumstances, the quality of artistic work that has been done by all the national companies has been astonishing. The quality of financial handling of the areas of the operation that are within their control has been exceptional."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 106037,
      "EditedText": "I should say that I am talking about the budgets that were agreed with our funders. Those budgets have been met. All our budgets have been met, except where unexpected reductions in public funding affected us. It has always been a matter of pride and importance to the board that that is done."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 106039,
      "EditedText": "I should allow Duncan McGhie to comment on that, as he has been desperate to get in."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 106044,
      "EditedText": "But does it approve the budgets that you present for the productions? It will not question the artistic merit of your season of productions, but it will look at the cost implications of the budgets."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 106045,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 106047,
      "EditedText": "The financial budget?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C106051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 106051,
      "EditedText": "You are probably asking me because I have been speaking so much, but I think that that paragraph is in Mr Trickey's paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 106052,
      "EditedText": "The project that was not budgeted to fall within the overall budget for 1999-2000 was, indeed, \"Macbeth\". That was not because it was not expected to generate income, but because its pre-performance costs—for the sets, the costumes and the rehearsals—were all budgeted to be accrued and charged to the budget for the following year, 2000-01, when most of its performances will take place. There was a whole area of expense where cash that had to be paid out to create the production did not come into the budget for that year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Trickey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 106054,
      "EditedText": "I have stalled slightly because of your use of the word \"decided\". I warned the SAC about the opera company's budgeting in future years—because the costs were being charged forward to a later year—and about its cash flow this year. I drew attention to the fact that that particular accounting treatment—which might be justified because companies have, in the past, sometimes treated productions in that way—was unsustainable because of the demands that it placed on the cash flow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 106057,
      "EditedText": "Is there a precedent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sandy Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 106060,
      "EditedText": "Not if the timing of the counter- payments from the co-producers or co-sponsors of the production had been as expected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 106062,
      "EditedText": "Bordeaux and the Vienna festival are the two that are confirmed. I understand that the company is still in negotiations with a couple of others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ruth Mackenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 106071,
      "EditedText": "The budgeted target for \"Macbeth\" in the 2000-01 budget is a deficit. Of course, a new production costs more than it earns. That is the same with any opera."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C106072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 106072,
      "EditedText": "Instead of a £1.5 million deficit at the end of the year, you would have had a £1.1 million or a £1.2 million deficit, even with that money. That is what the figures say. That not only strained your cash flow; it might have tipped you over the edge, but other things were going on and there were various types of overspending. I find your statement that your financial control is exceptional to be either deliberately ironic or some form of joke. No financial control can be exceptional when the company has had to be bailed out to the tune of £2.2 million: that is not exceptional financial control except in terms of being exceptionally bad financial control. I think that the majority of people in Scotland know that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C106073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 106073,
      "EditedText": "I want to move on; we have only 10 minutes left. I will come back to Brian Monteith—I know that we moved away from you before you had finished, Brian."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C106074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2153,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 106074,
      "EditedText": "It was mentioned that there was exceptional financial control. I understand that Coopers and Lybrand carried out a review a number of years ago, which was intended to put the national companies on a surer footing. It appears, however, when we consider the chronology of events, that deficits are carried forward and that that seems to be the way of things. To me, deficits are losses—that is the way that I understand it. It may be that the budgets are met, but to explain a deficit or loss, there must be budgets somewhere that are not being met. It may be in connection with sponsorship income; it is suggested that it is not to do with the box office. There is confusion about how the deficits grow, but it is separate from the issue of cash. From the figures that we have, it would seem that the projected deficit would be, in the end, £1.2 million. However—again, separate from the issue of cash—on 5 October, the deficit was predicted to be £2.5 million, with a quite separate cash deficit of £3.3 million. If there is good financial control, is it then the case that there must be poor artistic control? Where is the lack of control that allows those deficits to grow? If you are right, and there is good financial control, there must be somebody making artistic judgments that go beyond financial control. Is that a possibility?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C106084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 17 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 530
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-17T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2153,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 106084,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:29."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0902126+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 579660,
      "EditedText": "I have received neither the report nor the letter. That might be due to my mail being forwarded, but it makes it difficult to comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:13.361802+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 579662,
      "EditedText": "This is just the report; I understand that you have a letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:13.361802+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 579589,
      "EditedText": "Most important issues have been raised. There is a sense of betrayal in the agricultural sector. If the Government is to be trusted by farmers, it should fulfil its pledges. This is a serious issue that this committee should examine, perhaps by inviting the minister to discuss the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 579608,
      "EditedText": "Lord Sewel is safe in retirement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17647,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 17647,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 579642,
      "EditedText": "Given that there are no firm proposals, we cannot do anything other than note the document. The only thing I would mention is that point 2 of the Scottish Executive's covering note on the document says that the Commission feels that more work can be done on further controls on fishing effort. I hope that the emphasis would be on co-operation among environmental interests, the fishing industry and scientists, as opposed to constant reference to further controls."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 16 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17642,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17642,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Alex Johnstone): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 579517,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I am sorry for the slight delay in starting, but one or two of our members are not yet here. I have ascertained from members who are present that they are slightly delayed and may be here later, with the exception of Cathy Peattie who, unfortunately, is unable to attend.It has been recommended that we consider at this point whether we should take in private the last item on today's agenda—the Scottish zone of British fishery limits—because the paper that should have been distributed to everyone at the start of the meeting takes the form of a rudimentary draft report and contains views that are not necessarily the views of this committee. We will also receive the advice of a lawyer on certain points in the paper, and it is recommended that that advice be taken in private. Is it agreed that the last item on our agenda be taken in private?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 16 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17642,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 17642,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 579518,
      "EditedText": "We will now continue with the rest of the agenda. People in the public gallery will not be required to leave until we reach item 9."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17643,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 579520,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 579524,
      "EditedText": "Certainly. I should point out that not all our payment rates are lower. We are paying £370 for improved grassland, whereas the rate from the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is £350. As the explanatory note acknowledges, the differences are marginal.The differences to which paragraph 3 refers are alluded to further on in that paper. Both the MAFF scheme and our scheme had a 300 hectare limit when they were launched. Our experience was that the limit bit in every case. The vast majority of land that has been brought into conversion in Scotland is rough grazing, and the average size of farm that is converting is around 600 hectares. In England, the experience is quite different. Much less upland farmland is being brought into conversion; typically, small lowland units such as dairy farms or intensive cropping farms are being brought in. I do not have to hand a figure for the average area of those units, but somebody in MAFF mentioned to me, at a meeting, that the average size of farms in England that are applying for conversion is about 10 hectares. In our situation, removing the limit and increasing the payment rate so substantially would have meant making very large payments available to individual farm businesses. The payment to a farm of 1,000 hectares would be £450,000, which is a very large sum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 17644,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 17644,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 579537,
      "EditedText": "If so, can we conclude that the committee does not wish to make any recommendation in its report to the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 17644,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17644,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 579538,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 579540,
      "EditedText": "We have received two papers, which have been circulated to members. The first submission deals with the logistics requirements of the Scottish forestry industry. Members should have had an opportunity to look over this paper, which was prepared for the committee in response to a request for further information that we made on 5 October. Do we feel that the paper meets the requirements that we wished to meet when we made our request?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Henderson-Howatt, (Chief Conservator, Forestry Commission): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 579544,
      "EditedText": "Yes. As the paper says, the development department has commissioned the study, not the Forestry Commission. However, I am in close touch with officials in the department, who have assured me that it will be available early next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 579545,
      "EditedText": "The outcome of the study?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 579546,
      "EditedText": "No, the study into rail freight. Although it is a strategic review of rail freight generally, our main concern is to ensure that the transport of timber and forest products is properly considered within the wider study."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 579550,
      "EditedText": "That is absolutely right. There is a financial problem. That is why, although the amount of money that is available is out of our hands, we are trying to ensure that what money there is is spent sensibly, on the proper priorities and in the right places."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 579552,
      "EditedText": "The past 20 years, during which I have worked at the Forestry Commission, have been very stop-start in terms of getting timber on the rail network. Apart from the problem I mentioned earlier, there are other serious problems that must be faced. An example is the sawmill at Aboyne, which might deliver to customers in the midlands of England. If that sawmill uses roads, it is relatively easy to schedule lorries so that they can deliver to customers in two or three places in the midlands and the south of England. If rail is used, they must get an entire rail shipment together, which will have to go to a depot in the midlands and then be redistributed to customers. That is another problem that must be addressed in these days of just-in-time distribution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 579554,
      "EditedText": "There is a long and complicated story about that, but I will give a brief version. Until a few years ago, money to deal with forest roads issues was ring-fenced in local authority budgets. When local government finance was reformed, more decision-making power in relation to how local government money was spent was delegated to local authorities. The principle is that it is for local authorities to determine their priorities for capital spending. I know that that does not answer your question fully, but that is the background to the position we are in today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 579555,
      "EditedText": "Some years ago, there was a fund for forest access grants. That helped local authorities maintain the roads structure in rural Scotland. That fund has disappeared all of a sudden. I understand that Forest Enterprise seriously intends to assist local authorities where there is an obvious problem with the recovery of mature timber. Do you have a view on that? The northern conservatory is looking at that more seriously than ever and it is more willing to continue dialogue with the local authorities to achieve the result."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 579560,
      "EditedText": "I shall therefore take that opportunity and report back to you at our next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 579562,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I will make it clear to the convener of the Transport and the Environment Committee that we have identified forestry as an area of priority. Let us now move to the second paper—a brief summary of responses to the consultation paper, \"Forests for Scotland: Consultation towards a Scottish Forestry Strategy\". I shall ask Mr Henderson-Howatt to say a few words about the consultation exercise before answering any questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 579572,
      "EditedText": "To put it crudely, one sensed a divergence between those who envisaged a green future for forestry, and those who were more concerned with its industrial and employment-creation aspects. However, I would not want to present those concerns as mutually exclusive. An important part of the strategy will be mutual reinforcement, so that, as far as possible, we can have the best of both worlds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 579574,
      "EditedText": "Are there any further questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 579580,
      "EditedText": "Those of us who attend the committee regularly will know that this rate of progress is quite dizzy, given that we usually allow one and a half hours for the first item alone.The subject of item 4—the agricultural business improvement scheme that runs in the Highlands and Islands—has arisen largely since our previous meeting. I welcome Jamie Stone and Jamie McGrigor, who are both Highland members of the Parliament; they have come to the meeting today specifically for the discussion on this item.The issue has been raised with the committee by Mr Hamish McBean, who wrote to me to explain the problems that surrounded the agricultural business improvement scheme. We have also received submissions on the matter from the National Farmers Union and the Scottish Landowners Federation. I am sure that those of us with an interest in the matter will have had a huge postbag from individuals who have been affected by the scheme and felt it necessary to write to MSPs on the subject.I propose not to go over the submissions that we have received in detail, given that we have read most of them. I invite members who have opinions on the matter to express them at this point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 579581,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to start the debate, if I may. Those of us who were present at the briefing at 1 o'clock could not fail to come to the conclusion, if we had not done so already, that the scheme had got into a mess, to put it mildly. However, there is more to it than that. Livelihoods have been affected and the trust of applicants to the scheme has been shaken, not least their trust in Lord Sewel's statements, made in February and March this year, that adequate funding would be available to meet any costs incurred under the ABIS scheme. That has patently not been the case.We cannot simply let the matter go at that. We have all been given to understand that considerable expense had been incurred by many farmers, who are ill-equipped to meet that expense—never mind be encouraged to do so by the Scottish Office agriculture, environment and fisheries department and then the Scottish Office rural affairs department. Those farmers have been told that the expense was completely needless, as there is nothing left in the pot and their applications will almost certainly be refused. In fact, we were told that there had been no communication between SERAD and the applicant. That is an unsatisfactory state of affairs, and we must consider it more deeply."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 579599,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it would. I also think that it would be worth including in the invitation some points about the administration of the scheme as well as the point about the consequences for farming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 579602,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful if we could get some financial information in advance, such as the breakdown of the fund, the value in euros, how it has been disbursed so far and how the Executive has arrived at some of the projections for future disbursements. As you know, convener, some people have questioned the alleged commitment on the part of the Scottish Executive, whereas others are saying that it is not as bad as all that. We need some explanation of the figures that have been put out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 579605,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that is an appropriate approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 579609,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is a bring back Lord Sewel campaign."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 579611,
      "EditedText": "I think that the situation merits a more accelerated programme. We should not wait for our next meeting, which is two weeks away. The situation is serious enough to call an emergency debate. There are many people involved in agriculture who are waiting to hear what we are going to do. They have stock out on the hills or in the fields and they do not know what is going to happen next. We must accelerate the debate.As Lewis Macdonald said, Lord Sewel made his statement before the Scottish Executive came into being. We should ask the Scottish Executive to speak with colleagues at Westminster to encourage funding and support from that source. I hear that there is a flush of money down there and they do not know what to do with it. Let us have some of it up here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 579615,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned that we will fail to deal urgently with an urgent issue if we slip into discussing the wider issue of agricultural schemes. The committee's view is clear. We should agree and press on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 579617,
      "EditedText": "The next meeting falls on 30 November, which is a holiday. There was a provisional decision, made some months ago, to conduct that meeting on 3 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 579619,
      "EditedText": "Should we aim for an earlier date or meet on the scheduled date? Certain difficulties would arise in trying to arrange a meeting at shorter notice. I have grave reservations about trying to do so. Would it be appropriate to schedule the investigation for 3 December?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 579620,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate, in advance of that meeting, to ask that a full audit of the ABIS figures be made available, ideally for distribution with the papers for that meeting?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 579624,
      "EditedText": "I understand the priority that you attach to this issue, John. I am very sympathetic to your view. However, I am concerned about being able to set up an appropriate and adequate investigation within the time scale, before the next meeting. We should note John Munro's position and the fact that we take his concerns very seriously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 579633,
      "EditedText": "The powers of the committee are such that we cannot force a decision before a specific date. However, I hope that the conduct of this investigation will have a serious effect on concentrating the minds of those who have that power so that action may be taken in a timely manner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 579634,
      "EditedText": "As long as the Executive realises the seriousness of the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 579637,
      "EditedText": "Yes: emphasising the seriousness of the situation. I am sure that the committee would agree with that sentiment.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 579638,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is unanimous, John."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 579639,
      "EditedText": "Rhoda has already made this point, but I will make it again: it is important to check what action can be taken by the Scottish or UK Government, and what would be prevented by Europe. We have already covered this to an extent when we were addressing the lamb crisis, only to rebuffed at the final hurdle by Brussels. We could obtain advice on what would be allowed by the European Union in terms of compensation or top-up money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17647,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 17647,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 579643,
      "EditedText": "Is there any scope for inviting representatives of the fishing industry to send us their views?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17647,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 17647,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 579645,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments on any other part of the document? We will ask the fishermen to copy us in on any comments that they wish to make on the matter. If that is approved, we will take that opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17647,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 17647,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 579647,
      "EditedText": "It seems unlikely that we will have any comments that we wish to be noted. The document merely raises issues that I suspect might be raised in future and ones about which we should keep ourselves informed. Would it therefore be appropriate to note the document and pass on?If there are no further comments, that is what we will do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 579648,
      "EditedText": "The next item relates to the inquiry into the impact of changing employment patterns on rural areas. We have the scoping report, for which we have been waiting for some time. We also have Simon Wakefield—who was responsible for preparing it—here today. I invite him to go over the report with us. I also have a letter from Simon, covering one or two issues that are additional to the report. I have to say to him that I am very sympathetic to the points that he made in the letter. After he goes over the report, I would be most grateful if he went into those details, for the benefit of the committee. I hope that we are able to have a discussion based on what we have heard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17648,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Wakefield (Scottish Parliament Information Centre): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 579649,
      "EditedText": "Thank you.I will go through the scoping report briefly. We looked at the response that the Executive sent to the committee and other evidence that was available from elsewhere, under the key objectives that the committee had set for the inquiry. They covered identifying the key drivers of change in employment patterns; identifying who gains and who loses as a result of changing employment patterns; assessing the impact of the changes on rural communities, especially on income and housing; reviewing current policy to support employment in Scotland; and identifying best practice and areas for improvement in the policy.I do not want to go through that in great detail, but we have identified a couple of opportunities for additional research and investigation by the committee. They would come under two of the key objectives that were set by the committee: reviewing current policy to support employment, and identifying best practice. Our scoping paper indicates that, although the Executive has identified a wide range of policies and initiatives to support employment in rural Scotland, there is no evidence from the Executive, or from any other research that has been done, of an overarching, comparative analysis of support offered to the different sectors and groups in the rural economy. That was therefore one area that we felt it might be helpful for the committee to consider in more detail, with some external research.The information centre is working for the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee on an audit of economic development services in Scotland as part of its inquiry. There is a good opportunity for the committee to make use of that research, and perhaps add a bit of value to it from a rural perspective, providing additional comparative detail on support for the sectors that are especially important for the rural economy—sea fisheries, agriculture, forestry, tourism and so forth. It would be most effective if the committee brought in some expertise in rural development to do that work.The committee previously agreed that an external adviser should be brought in to advise the committee, assist with the consultation exercise, and analyse and draw out the key themes. In the management of the research, it might make sense to link that consultation and analysis to the comparative analysis of support for employment, to get a single external research contract. From our experience of managing such things, it would be possible to do that, and doing so would be more likely to deliver results to the committee in the required time scale.I hope that that is a reasonably helpful suggestion, which would dovetail the research resources of the two committees and produce deliverable results to help the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 579654,
      "EditedText": "I agree. From this committee's point of view, I am not concerned that there are only two paragraphs about tourism in the paper, because it is not our paper—it is the Scottish Executive's paper. Perhaps we might wish to comment on the fact that it has only two paragraphs about tourism. That does not restrict our discussions or conclusions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 579665,
      "EditedText": "We will wait a moment, so that the clerk can photocopy the letter. Are there any other questions about the report at this stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 579667,
      "EditedText": "Simon, do you have any views on the priorities that ought to be attached to tourism and whether it was adequately covered?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 579670,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 2 of the briefing paper from the Scottish Executive contains a table showing rural Scotland's employment statistics from 1991 to 1997. The table shows agriculture, forestry and fishing, mining, manufacturing, electricity, gas supply and construction—but where is tourism?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 579674,
      "EditedText": "Under \"Distribution, Hotels and Restaurants\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 579675,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 579680,
      "EditedText": "It would be difficult to obtain figures for tourism, but I take the point that we should pursue the issue.Do members have other comments on the paper? I want to keep members up to date on other parts of the procedure. Members might remember that we agreed on 5 October that Cathy Peattie, Irene McGugan and I would be responsible for considering expert advisers who would deal with rural employment patterns. The Parliamentary Bureau has approved the appointment of an adviser to assist the committee with the inquiry, and we will be able to proceed with that when we agree the terms of the inquiry. The photocopier must be further away than we thought. I could have gone over the recommendations, but the clerk has taken the original copy away. We will move on to other items and come back to the issue later. It would be fair to allow Simon to return to his seat. We will circulate the letter and take a moment to discuss it at the end of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries",
      "HeadingID": 17649,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ID": 17649,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Wakefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 579685,
      "EditedText": "No. I covered the points that are in the letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries",
      "HeadingID": 17649,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ID": 17649,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 579688,
      "EditedText": "We all accept the point that Mike raised. Would it be appropriate for us to proceed on the basis that is set out in the letter?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Infectious Salmon Anaemia",
      "HeadingID": 17650,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ID": 17650,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 579689,
      "EditedText": "Richard Lochhead requested at the last minute that this item be added to the agenda. I ask him to outline his reasons for doing so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Infectious Salmon Anaemia",
      "HeadingID": 17650,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ID": 17650,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 579691,
      "EditedText": "I agree entirely. The issue is important and I am glad that it is on the agenda today—I raised it with the minister myself.Richard's suggestion that we ask the minister to present a report to us is good. My rural constituency of West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine has three salmon rivers, and people have contacted me to express their concern. We need to have the latest information from the Executive. The Executive must focus its resources on research. I would like the committee to send that message."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Infectious Salmon Anaemia",
      "HeadingID": 17650,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ID": 17650,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 579692,
      "EditedText": "If the virus is found in wild stocks, the classification of the disease changes. It is no longer classed as exotic but is classed as endemic, which means that it is handled differently. The fish farmers will not have to slaughter their stock. It would be useful to have that clarified as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17647,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 17647,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 579644,
      "EditedText": "That would be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Infectious Salmon Anaemia",
      "HeadingID": 17650,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ID": 17650,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 579690,
      "EditedText": "I asked for the item to be included because the infectious salmon anaemia virus has been found in wild fish in Scotland. That will change many people's perception of the crisis. I am not sure of the way forward, but I wonder whether the committee thinks that it would be appropriate for us to initiate an investigation into the infectious salmon anaemia virus in Scotland, given that it is a big issue for many rural communities.Given the other things to which we have committed ourselves, I am not suggesting that we carry out an in-depth investigation, but some sort of action would be useful. We could request a report from the Executive on the implications of the recent developments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 579583,
      "EditedText": "At the meeting just before this one, I learned that there was some argument about the amount of money to which people could be eligible under the scheme. We are told that there are applications for funds of more than £22 million, but that that figure might be a lot less once all the applications have been processed. Should we ask for a quick audit of applications so that we know the magnitude of the problem? We could invite the minister to our next meeting to answer questions on this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1658261+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 16 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17642,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17642,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 579516,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:05"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 17643,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 579519,
      "EditedText": "Item 1 is a negative instrument and has been circulated to members with an explanatory note. We have with us today Mr John Hood of the Scottish Executive rural affairs department, who can advise us on the details of the instrument and answer one or two questions, if members think that that is necessary. Would members like to hear from Mr Hood?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 17643,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 579521,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I will ask Mr Hood to come forward. I should point out to members that this instrument came into effect on 29 October and was laid under the negative procedure. That means that the Parliament has the power to annul the instrument by resolution within 40 days—in this case, by 30 November. Any MSP may lodge a motion to propose to the lead committee that the instrument be annulled. As we have said before, it is important that we understand statutory instruments before we allow them to stand. Mr Hood, would you like to say a few words on the instrument and the explanatory memorandum that accompanies it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Hood (Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 579522,
      "EditedText": "It might be useful if I explain the background to these regulations and the purpose of the organic aid scheme over the past two years or so. The scheme was launched in 1994, but there was very little interest in it for the first few years—after two or three years we had about 40 participants, which was considerably fewer than we had in the other agri-environment schemes that operated at that time.In 1997, the House of Commons Agriculture Committee recommended that agriculture departments review the operation of their organic aid schemes. Along with the other agriculture departments, we undertook such a review, which ended in September 1997. We consulted on proposals to revise and improve the scheme to increase uptake, and received 23 replies. We also considered ways of improving the uptake of the five other schemes in the agri-environment programme. In November 1997, ministers agreed that we should consult on proposals to merge the schemes, with the objective of improving uptake by making it easier for farmers to understand what was available. We consulted on that in January 1998. The proposal for merger included a suggestion that the organic aid scheme be incorporated into the mainstream agri-environment schemes. That had been suggested during the previous consultation, in particular by environmental bodies and by Scottish Natural Heritage. Their rationale was that, as organic farming was seen as a fringe activity rather than as mainstream farming, farmers were not paying much heed to the organic aid scheme, although they did recognise the other agri-environment schemes. The proposal was to merge the environmentally sensitive areas scheme, the countryside premium scheme and the organic aid scheme. It was intended that the merged scheme would operate by spring 1999.The outcome of the consultation exercise was general agreement that we should merge the scheme. However, a number of influential players including conservation and farmer bodies thought that we were proceeding too quickly with merger and that we should give the countryside premium scheme, in particular, more time to operate, as it had been launched only in 1997. Ministers agreed that we should proceed with merger but that we should do so over a longer time scale, and that we should work towards introducing a new scheme under the umbrella of the European Commission's Agenda 2000 proposals, which were then being developed although they were far from their final form. We realised that if we had launched a new scheme in the spring of this year, it would probably have had a shelf-life of only one year. We thought that we could produce a more widely acceptable merged scheme if we used the extra time that the ministers' decision gave us to undertake further bilateral dialogue with farming, crofting and conservation organisations. We have done that, and now plan to launch a new scheme under Agenda 2000 sometime next year.One outcome of that process was that we had to consider the organic aid scheme separately, as it was still a free-standing scheme. Outside factors were conspiring to increase interest in that scheme: there were food scares and farmers were finding it hard to find a market for their produce. Many farmers recognised that agri-environment schemes could provide a guaranteed income stream for five years or longer. We reconsidered the responses that we had received in the original consultation after the UK Parliament's review, and decided to adopt the recommendation to increase payment rates. The result of that process is what is before you today. We worked out payment rates, changed payment categories to reflect more accurately the types of farming enterprise that we have in Scotland, and put proposals for revised payment rates for the organic aid scheme and ESA schemes to the Commission in April this year.The Commission approved the organic aid scheme changes in the summer. The regulations were made and passed in October. The purpose of what we have been doing all along has been to try to improve the uptake of this scheme and to maximise opportunities for farmers who want to convert, with the help that this scheme provides."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 17643,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 579523,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. I will use the prerogative of the convener and ask the first question.From the explanatory note, it is clear that the rates of payment will be slightly less in Scotland than in England. The explanatory note also suggests that there will be an upper limit in Scotland, which does not exist in England. At the end of paragraph 3, the explanatory note says:\"The differences are marginal and reflect the different conditions which apply north and south of the border.\"Would it be possible for you to give us an explanation of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 17643,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 579525,
      "EditedText": "Despite the slow start-up of the aid scheme in 1994, it must be recognised that organic farming is the only sector in agriculture that is thriving, and that it deserves more support than is available to it in this statutory instrument. You have been able to estimate the number of applications that are in the pipeline. Are you able to estimate how much they are likely to cost and what percentage of the agri-environment budget of £18.8 million might be assigned under the new scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17643,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 579526,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer that question precisely, but I will do my best. I think that I understand where you are coming from."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 579527,
      "EditedText": "I would just like to know how it will sit alongside the other schemes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 579529,
      "EditedText": "If the applications for organic aid exceed your expectations by a considerable amount, as seems to have been the case in some other schemes, the first thing to go would be the countryside premium. Are you saying that if total applications exceed the budget, you will still have to pay farmers and find the money elsewhere? Is there no question of saying that the scheme is oversubscribed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 579530,
      "EditedText": "I will explain the mechanics of what would have to be considered in that eventuality. We have received legal advice to the effect that we could not refuse an application because of lack of funds. In that circumstance, the options open to the minister would be to find more funds or to close the scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 579534,
      "EditedText": "We conclude that the committee does not want to make any recommendation on its report to Parliament.That is approved unanimously.Thank you, Mr Hood."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 17644,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17644,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 579539,
      "EditedText": "That is approved unanimously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 579542,
      "EditedText": "Mr David Henderson-Howatt, who is the chief conservator in the Forestry Commission, is here today and will be able to answer questions on this paper and on the next paper that we will discuss. Do members think that it would be appropriate to invite him to come forward at this point? Please come forward, David. Irene, please direct your question to him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 579543,
      "EditedText": "Mr Henderson-Howatt, can you indicate the time scale that you envisage the report will require, as it will impact on what we decide to do now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 579548,
      "EditedText": "It is important to realise that, for timber transport, rail freight is only one part of the story. Even with the best will in the world, the timber must be transported from the forest to the railhead, so an element of road transport will always be involved. The development department's study will examine rail freight generally and, in a sense, it is fortuitous for us that it has come at this time. Timber transport is not a new problem—case law on the problems of timber transport dates back to the early part of this century. My predecessors were actively engaged on the problems. For example, as Alasdair Morgan will know, there was a forest roads accord 10 years ago in Dumfries and Galloway. The problems are not new, but they need to be reviewed continually as more forests come on line. I am hopeful of the current way of working with local roads groups and local transport groups, such as those in Dumfries and Galloway and in Argyll. We are having good discussions and getting good co-operation between the industry, local authorities and the Forestry Commission so that we can ensure that the limited money available is spent in the right places and on specific problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 579551,
      "EditedText": "Are you concerned about the proportion of timber that completes its journey by road? Ninety-five per cent is a very high proportion. Is that a consequence of the location of sawmills, of communication links or because other methods of transport have not been developed as much as you would like?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 579556,
      "EditedText": "That is right. That is in the context of joint working between the commission, the industry and local authorities. Everyone is trying to find pragmatic solutions and the sort of initiative in the north of Scotland to which you refer is an example of an attempt to identify the problems and to work together to find a sensible way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 579559,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions about the transport paper? Please indulge us for a moment, Mr Henderson-Howatt, while we complete that part of our discussion. It appears that the Transport and the Environment Committee has the lead responsibility for much of what we are discussing, but that committee does not currently have this issue on its agenda. However, it is becoming obvious that it is a priority for this committee. It has therefore been suggested that I should meet the convener of the Transport and the Environment Committee to express the views that have been voiced at this and previous meetings and to discuss how to demarcate the responsibility of the two committees in future. Do members agree that that would be appropriate?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 579561,
      "EditedText": "Will you stress the fact that we consider the matter to be a high priority?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 579563,
      "EditedText": "Earlier in the year, we launched a consultation exercise on the Scottish forestry strategy and produced 5,000 copies of the consultation document. Copies were sent to all the community councils in Scotland, to local authorities and to industry organisations. Members of the public could pick up copies at the Highland show and at other agricultural shows. We had about 250 responses, forming a stack of paper about 2 ft high. We prepared a longer summary of those responses than the brief summary that has been provided to the committee. In addition, we invited everyone who responded to the consultation exercise to come to a seminar in Dunkeld last Wednesday. About 150 people attended and we spent an extremely useful day teasing out some of the areas of difference and trying to build a consensus on where people want Scottish forestry to go in the next century. As a result of that, we are now working on a draft strategy, which should be available in January and will be presented to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 579568,
      "EditedText": "Yes. All the regional seminars were noted and their reports were fed into the analysis of responses. We seconded a lady who works in our research agency to go through all the responses and reports of the seminars and to prepare this summary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579570",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 579570,
      "EditedText": "It was certainly not our intention that the draft strategy should be issued to those people who responded to the consultation exercise before it came before the committee. What I had in mind—subject to the committee's wishes—was that those things should happen at more or less the same time. This consultation paper was prepared earlier this year—it was published at the end of March, before devolution. We are available to engage with the committee in whatever way it wishes to take the process forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 579571,
      "EditedText": "You observed that this consultation did not lead to the same political contention as the land reform consultation did; we would not find that surprising. From the seminars and responses, what issue gave rise to the greatest divergence of views? Everyone accepts the principles—at issue is what comes first. What was at the root of the differences between the interested bodies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 579575,
      "EditedText": "I have more of an observation than a question. You said that indicative forestry strategies have been generally welcomed, and I am sure that that is true. However, I want to stress the need for those strategies to work in tandem with agri-environmental schemes. One problem that I have encountered when dealing with hill farmers in the Eskdalemuir area is that people find that the value of their land falls by around half when it is zoned outside a forestry area, because they are not able to sell it on to forestry developers. There is obviously a need for schemes to reward farmers for keeping land in agricultural use rather than transferring it to forestry use."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 579577,
      "EditedText": "Until 1994, an enormous amount of timber was carried from the west coast by coastal shipping, under the tariff rebate scheme. That seemed a good idea, as it kept an enormous number of heavy lorries off the roads. If the tariff rebate scheme was reintroduced, I believe that the same thing would happen again. Would you be keen on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 579578,
      "EditedText": "The tariff rebate scheme has a long history. I think that those who were involved in moving timber under it would be the first to say that its operation was not ideal. As you said, when it was withdrawn in 1994, there was a reduction in the amount of timber that was moved by sea. Since then, the amount has crept up. I am not sure whether the tariff rebate subsidy is the right way to go; what we want—particularly with the Argyll timber transport group—is to look for opportunities for promoting more sea transport."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 579582,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Alex Fergusson. This has been a shambles. The Government said earlier this year, in effect, that anyone who submitted a valid application would receive assistance—the more, the merrier. Given the current farming crisis, the scheme is an excellent idea and would make a great difference to the Highlands and Islands. Now that people's expectations have been built up and, in many cases, their bank accounts have been emptied as they have spent money on getting planning permission and hiring consultants and so on, they are left in the lurch—or, worse, they do not know where they stand.There are a lot of questions to be answered. The Government's precise exposure to claims is not clear—there is certainly disagreement about the upper limit. I know that we do not want to be continually diverted by whatever is this week's crisis, but it seems that this matter is significant enough to a large enough number of people for us to consider it in more depth—I suspect at our next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 579585,
      "EditedText": "We should remember that this was a relaunch of ABIS. The ABIS scheme had been operating perfectly well for some time, and had met all applications. As the take-up was not sufficiently large, the scheme was made much more attractive, which is why many people went into it. One cannot offer carrots and then plunge people into despair by not producing them. What has happened to the money that must have existed to pay for the scheme?I am also alarmed by the countryside premium scheme. I am led to believe that the same thing is happening with that scheme—money has been transferred from it to the organic aid scheme. I would like to know whether that is the case. If these schemes are going to be made available, but the funds are suddenly going to be withdrawn, the hill-farming industry—which is in a desperate state—will be left in even greater financial difficulties. It is not good enough to let people spend money on planning only to take away the funds. That is a bad state of affairs, which demands serious explanation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C579586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 579586,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry for being late. I was at the Health and Community Care Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C579588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 579588,
      "EditedText": "I apologise if I say something that has already been said.Many farmers in the Highlands did not quite meet the deadlines. I met two on Friday, whose building warrants were processed late. There are more applications than the total that we have now. Many farmers have spent money on architects' fees and planning, for example, but because they have had to wait for council building warrants, they are still waiting to submit applications.I support what Jamie McGrigor said. The Scottish National Farmers Union has told me that £6 million of the full £23 million of funding has been spent on farmers. In the Parliament last week, Ross Finnie said that £17 million of the full £23 million budget had been spent. I would like to know why we started with £23 million but have ended up with £1.2 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 579590,
      "EditedText": "It concerns me to hear the word betrayal used in this context. I understand the concerns, but if we want to have a constructive and effective relationship with the ministry, the last thing that we should do is use language of that kind. There is clearly a problem, and Rhoda's suggestion that we seek an explanation for what has gone on is a good one. I think that that would command general support.According to the Scottish National Farmers Union, the Executive has held meetings with applicants and potential applicants in the Highlands over the past few weeks, and members of this committee will be aware of the announcement that was made today. Although the urgency and importance of this issue are not to be underestimated, a sense of proportion would well become us as a committee.I echo Alasdair Morgan's point that, although we must identify and deal with these problems as they arise, we must not, as the Rural Affairs Committee, become a committee for discussing the latest agricultural crisis. We understand the difficulties that the agricultural industry faces and we should deal with those, but if we become too inclined to adopt a fire-fighting role, the longer-term constructive plans that we agreed at the outset will be more difficult to fulfil."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 579595,
      "EditedText": "The problems in farming that Mary indicated are being faced by farmers throughout Scotland, not just by those who are eligible for the ABIS. The committee has agreed to investigate the problems of the agriculture industry in general in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 579601,
      "EditedText": "That would be up to the minister and whether he felt that he needed anyone to advise him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 579603,
      "EditedText": "The real commitment was made before the Scottish Executive came into being. Lord Sewel and the Scottish Office made it. It may be very hard to delve further into that commitment by questioning the current minister. Perhaps we should be asking someone from the previous administration to come as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 579610,
      "EditedText": "Given those remarks, is the position regarding the administration that predates the Scottish Executive fully understood?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 579616,
      "EditedText": "What is the date of the next meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 579622,
      "EditedText": "Would anyone like to add anything about the ABIS?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 579623,
      "EditedText": "I go along with the suggestion that we should get the best financial and other information that we can. We will discuss it at the meeting on 3 December. My fear is that by the time our discussions are dealt with by the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament, we will be into the middle of December. Parliament will close and will not open again until early January. Nothing will happen in all that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17646,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 579626,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate for us to approach the NFU and the SLF for such information?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C579627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 579627,
      "EditedText": "Highland MSPs have got lots of case studies. I would be happy to give mine to the committee if it would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
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    "Person": {
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 579628,
      "EditedText": "We have contacted the Scottish Crofters Union in such circumstances in the past. Would it be appropriate to do so this time?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 579629,
      "EditedText": "I hope that we will include two case studies from each organisation with the papers distributed in advance of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 579630,
      "EditedText": "Do we have any information on the deadlines applied to this fund, given that it is from Europe? I understand that the deadline is 31 December 1999."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 579640,
      "EditedText": "Who do we approach for definitive advice on that?Are there any more comments on this matter? If that is all we have to say at this stage, I will move on to the next item, but I hope that everyone is confident that we wish to proceed with a sense of urgency. I thank everyone who came along for this part of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17647,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17647,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 579641,
      "EditedText": "Item 5 is an EU communication on management and nature conservation in the marine environment. The clerks and I have had a discussion about it.  Given that the document is before us, would anyone like to comment on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 579650,
      "EditedText": "Are there any questions for Simon on the scoping report, or on his suggestions of how we should proceed? This area is our No 1 priority, and we need to proceed fairly quickly. I understand that we had a hold-up because Simon was ill for a while, but he is back on course now. Do members think that his proposals on how we should proceed are appropriate? Given that we are at the first critical point in the investigation, is there anything else that anyone would like to comment on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579652",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 579652,
      "EditedText": "We have come up against that problem before: we are all well aware of the importance of tourism in rural areas, but in the structure of the Parliament, it falls within the remit of a different committee. Perhaps we will need to have a chat with the relevant convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579655",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 579655,
      "EditedText": "I was reacting to the convener's comments. I did not want to let that ride."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579656",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 579656,
      "EditedText": "It must be said that we are discussing the information centre's paper. It is there to target the way in which the inquiry will go, and I am open to suggestions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579657",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 579657,
      "EditedText": "I understand that Simon Wakefield's recommendations are not included in the paper. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579658",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 579658,
      "EditedText": "The recommendations were issued separately in a letter, which I will be delighted to let members see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579663",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 579663,
      "EditedText": "The letter is a separate item, which has not been circulated. Is it okay if I circulate the letter at this point, Simon?"
    },
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  },
  {
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Wakefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 579664,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 579666,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 579669,
      "EditedText": "Are separate figures available for tourism in the rural environment and tourism in the city environment? Perhaps we should examine tourism as a rural industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 579671,
      "EditedText": "Are not separate figures for tourism as a rural industry available?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Wakefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 579672,
      "EditedText": "Figures will certainly be produced for each tourist board area—the rural tourist board areas could be separated out from those for urban areas. There are some figures on expenditure and visitors from which I could produce information for the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 579676,
      "EditedText": "If, as I believe, tourism is such an important industry for Scotland, we, as a committee, should highlight that. It might reflect on the Scottish Executive that it has produced the figures in the way shown in the table. Far be it from me to criticise the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 579677,
      "EditedText": "The table highlights the difficulty of quantifying the precise extent of tourism. If a tourist travels on a train, that is just another train ticket that has been bought, yet it is clearly a product of tourism. That makes objective analysis difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 579678,
      "EditedText": "However, the figures for 1997 indicate the importance of tourism, as they show that twice as many people in rural Scotland are employed in distribution, hotels and restaurants as are employed in agriculture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries",
      "HeadingID": 17649,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ID": 17649,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 579681,
      "EditedText": "Members will remember that we had a briefing organised for the day on which the Scottish National party motion on rural affairs was debated, which caused us to reconsider our plans. The Sea Fish Industry Authority has indicated a desire to provide a briefing to members on current fisheries issues leading up to the Fisheries Council meeting in December. Do members think that such a briefing would be useful? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Infectious Salmon Anaemia",
      "HeadingID": 17650,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ID": 17650,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 579693,
      "EditedText": "We do not want to end up with an endless list of crises. If the wrong signals are sent from the committee, the public perception might be that the virus poses a direct threat to public health. We have seen something similar happening with the supermarkets' treatment of Scottish salmon. On that basis, I am inclined to ask the Executive for further information. We risk sending the wrong signals if we throw up our hands in horror and talk about another crisis hitting the rural community."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Infectious Salmon Anaemia",
      "HeadingID": 17650,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ID": 17650,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 579695,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 17:42."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 17643,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 579528,
      "EditedText": "The method of calculating payment rates is set down in EU regulation. We must calculate those payments on the basis of income that is forgone. We do not have any leeway on that score.I want to put the expenditure into context. Two years ago, the scheme spent £90,000. Last year, the expenditure was £200,000. I guess—and it is only a guess—that this year's expenditure will be in excess of £1 million. I will explain how we operate the agri-environment budget, which is just below £19 million for this year. All eligible applications that we receive for the organic aid scheme and the environmentally sensitive area scheme, both of which are non-discretionary, must be funded. That continues to be the case.The third scheme in the agri-environment programme is the countryside premium scheme. It is a discretionary scheme and we fund the number of applications that we can approve, after we have met the demands from the organic aid scheme and the environmentally sensitive areas scheme. The agri-environment schemes in Scotland were one of the few programme areas where additional money was allocated following the comprehensive spending review. That may allow a further expansion of the programme than would otherwise have been the case. I will put the expenditure on the programme in context. About four years ago, the expenditure was about £1 million per annum. Last year we spent £13 million and provision is for £19 million this year and £22 million next year, so expenditure is rising sharply.The motivation behind the demand for entry to agri-environment schemes is something of a mystery to me. In the early days, we probably received applications from farmers who were interested in conservation. The range of motivations that persuade farmers to apply to join is now probably different. Many farmers see it as a guaranteed stream of income as they are looking for an alternative to supplement falling incomes from the commodities that they produce. I suspect that the trend of increased demand for schemes will probably continue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17643,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 579531,
      "EditedText": "You would have to fund all applications that you had received up to the date of closing the scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17643,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 579532,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 17643,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 17643,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 579533,
      "EditedText": "If there are no further questions, we must decide how we wish to proceed on this matter. It has to be said that the scheme that has been put before us is desirable and will benefit farmers in Scotland. If there are any reservations, it may be appropriate to consider those in the longer term in the context of long-term support for organic farming.Are members content with the proposal?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 17644,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 17644,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 579535,
      "EditedText": "Agenda item 2 is another instrument that has been raised under the negative procedure. The order refers specifically to the disease of rhizomania. The explanatory note has been circulated to all members. Are we content that we understand the details in the explanatory note, which states that this disease relates particularly to sugar beet, which is not much grown in Scotland? The disease has never been detected in Scotland.The order is required in order to achieve standardisation across Europe. Do members wish to clarify any issue or receive further information on this statutory instrument? If not, are members content with the proposal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 17644,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 17644,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 579536,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 579541,
      "EditedText": "The final paragraph of the paper says:\"The SEDD is intending to commission a study\".Has a time scale been set for that study?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 579547,
      "EditedText": "Am I right in saying that timber production in Scotland will peak at the beginning of the next century? That is not a surprise to anyone, given that the timber was planted some time ago. Do you not think that the study should have been undertaken some time ago? It strikes me that it will take quite a few years to put in place any recommendations that the study produces and, by that time, timber production will be well down the road."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 579549,
      "EditedText": "Would it be fair to say that there is increasing concern among local authorities that their budgets are not sufficient to strengthen bridges, for example, to cope with forestry traffic?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 579553,
      "EditedText": "You touched on my principal concern when you said that all timber must at some stage be transported by road. The roads are inevitably small and unsuitable because they come through forests to railheads and so on. It strikes me that there is a freight facilities grant that could enable transport of timber by water and that there is a track access grant that assists in the transport of timber by rail. Either way, the timber will need to be transported by road at some stage. Is not the buck being passed when it comes to the roads question? Is there a reluctance to address what is becoming a serious problem in forestry transport—the ownership and unsuitability of small rural roads?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 579558,
      "EditedText": "That option obviously depends on the willingness of the owners along the route. It is another example of something that it is better to consider locally, rather than nationally. For example, the Argyll timber transport group now has a project officer in place. One of her tasks is to look specifically at places where such a scheme could be established, where the networks make sense and the owners along the way are prepared to allow it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 579564,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone have any questions on the summary of responses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 579565,
      "EditedText": "Five thousand copies went out, but only 250 responses were received. Were you disappointed by that, David? The stack may be 2 ft high, but 250 is a relatively small number of responses to a consultation on a national issue such as forestry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 579566,
      "EditedText": "I was also involved in the work of the land reform policy group, which was in many ways much more politically controversial. Although there were more responses to the land reform consultation exercise, that response was not of significantly greater magnitude. It is in the nature of such things that many people who have an interest will not necessarily put pen to paper and write in about it. For example, many people know that their views have been represented through the organisations that they belong to, such as the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, the Timber Growers Association, a community council or some other body. The fact that we have had only 250 responses belies the fact that many people have had their views put forward by organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 579567,
      "EditedText": "On a related point, 400 people came to your seminars during the consultation period. Were their views incorporated into the summary? There is always something limiting about asking set questions in a consultation paper. I know that there is nothing to prevent people from debating the issues more widely, but they tend to focus on the questions that have been put before them. Seminars would have given more opportunity for wide-ranging discussion. Were the views fed into the consultation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 579569,
      "EditedText": "The draft document will be issued to those who responded in the first place before it comes before the Parliament. Was no thought given to involving this committee at an earlier stage—perhaps in drawing up the consultation paper or devising the questions—rather than at the end of the process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 579573,
      "EditedText": "So the differences have their origins in where people are coming from, rather than in where they want this strategy to take us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Henderson-Howatt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 579576,
      "EditedText": "The issue that Dr Murray has raised relates particularly to what we call local forestry frameworks, which we are piloting in two areas in Dumfries and Galloway and which operate at a more detailed level than the indicative forestry strategy. They were introduced following a case in which someone applied for woodland grants scheme money to plant a farm. No one denied that it was a good application, but there was a strong feeling locally that there was enough forestry in the area—70 per cent of it was already afforested—and that people did not want any more. To prevent that from happening in the future and to give people clearer guidance on whether it is worth developing applications, we decided to prepare the local forestry frameworks that are now being piloted. Dr Murray is right to point out the problems that arise when we are dealing with that detail and people see lines being drawn on the map around their own property."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 579579,
      "EditedText": "I thank Mr Henderson-Howatt for his contribution to the meeting. As for the consultation exercise, it may now be appropriate for us to await the strategy report that he mentioned and consider it when it becomes available. Do members agree?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C579584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 579584,
      "EditedText": "This is a bad business. It is of paramount importance to the northern Highlands. Rhoda Grant's suggestion is sensible but, as became apparent from our discussions with the NFU, we are somewhat boxed in by past, present and future European funding. The way forward may be to make a plea for some form of financial lifeline from—let us face it—a surplus-rich Treasury. Perhaps we could push this case with our Westminster colleagues. Such a plea would have cross-party support. Rhoda Grant and others will agree that in the Highlands there is cross-party recognition of the severity of the problem. The old saying was that the Highlands were on Scotland's conscience. Given the gravity of this problem, we can say that the Highlands are on the UK's conscience. Members heard the letters on this that I read out in Parliament the week before last, and late last night I got a call from a farmer in John O'Groats who had put up money but did not know when he would get it back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17646,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 579587,
      "EditedText": "That is okay. You are forgiven."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 579591,
      "EditedText": "We are perhaps reaching a consensus. However, we should ask the minister or his representative to attend the next meeting. In advance of that, we should get an audit of the figures, as was suggested. A lot of figures have been bandied about, and there seems to be some scepticism over the likely commitment of the Government. If we had some of those figures in advance, our meeting with the minister would be better informed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 579592,
      "EditedText": "I have listened to other members' comments. I am surprised that Mr Macdonald is suggesting that the language that we are using is rather aggressive. I do not think that the word betrayal is aggressive at all. Many of the farmers and the people who are on the list, when speaking to their bankers and accountants weekly, use far stronger language than we have heard here. We were speaking to some of them earlier, and this debate is on-going between many of us who represent rural constituencies and the farming community. We realise and accept the difficulties that those people are encountering.This is nothing new; it has gone on for several years. If this were the only difficulty that the farming community was suffering, I would use less aggressive language. However, I am not prepared to do that when I see what is happening in the farming communities. The Rural Affairs Committee has a duty to make the strongest possible case to the Scottish Parliament and to remind the Executive of Lord Sewel's commitment that\"sufficient resources will remain applied to the ABIS to ensure that all outstanding commitments can be met, as well as accommodating any up-surge in applications which may emerge as a consequence of the improvements to the scheme\".We should remind our Scottish Parliament colleagues of that clear and unambiguous statement so that we can address the situation and give some comfort to the people in rural Scotland who are trying to exist in very difficult circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 579593,
      "EditedText": "It is important to avail ourselves of the facts before we make recommendations. The notes for news editors that came out with the press release indicate that, although currency fluctuation and the weakness of the euro formed part of the problem, another part was the transfer of £2.7 million to other agriculture and fisheries measures in the Highlands and Islands programme. We need to know what has happened. I am sure that Lord Sewel did not make that statement without any consideration. We need to know why money was transferred to other measures and what those measures were."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C579594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 579594,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to Lewis's point. We cannot underestimate the importance of the ABIS to many farmers. Farmers have faced various problems over the past few years and people should not think that there is a new problem every week. No one wants to run the Scottish Parliament by crisis management.I have to tell Lewis that there are men whose families have been in farming for 200 years who are about to walk away from their farms. The whole structure of farming is in serious crisis and farmers are at their lowest ebb. Generations of farming depend on this scheme. I am sorry if I am being dramatic, but I am passionate about this issue. People have told me what they told John Farquhar Munro: they are facing a desperate state of affairs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C579596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 579596,
      "EditedText": "I thank Dr Murray for that statement. However, I represent the very north of the country, from Cape Wrath to John o' Groats. The farmers have had so many difficulties recently that those communities will start to go under if we do not give them something. It is as bad as that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 579597,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that this is just an agricultural problem. This scheme has run into enormous administrative difficulties. Although the effect has been felt on agriculture, some of my questions centre on why the scheme has got into this extremely difficult state. Perhaps we should enter into the debate with a view to helping the Scottish Executive not to get into this state, if that helps Mr Macdonald. The situation is absolutely hopeless."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 579598,
      "EditedText": "If there are no further comments, we need to decide how we are going to proceed on the matter. Some members have suggested that it would be appropriate to ask the Minister for Rural Affairs to come to the next committee meeting to answer questions and to provide detailed information on the ABIS and the problems that face us. Do members think that that would be an appropriate course of action?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 579600,
      "EditedText": "Given the wide range of problems that face the scheme, would it be appropriate for us to ask other officials to come to the committee to give evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 579604,
      "EditedText": "That is an issue that I would like the committee to clarify."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 579606,
      "EditedText": "I did not think that you would."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 579607,
      "EditedText": "That is a red herring. We are talking about the department that preceded the current department, which is headed by Ross Finnie. Ross Finnie receives the same advice from the same officials as Lord Sewel did. Ross Finnie is the minister who is accountable to us for the conduct of that department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 579613,
      "EditedText": "I have reservations about asking the minister and senior civil servants to cut into their diaries at a week's notice. There could be a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 579614,
      "EditedText": "As I mentioned earlier, if the minister could be persuaded to answer questions about the ABIS, he might dispel the worries that people have about the countryside premium scheme. I gather that there are priorities for the scheme. Two people rang me last night to tell me that there are now extra priorities for the scheme. A lot of people are waiting to get on to that scheme. If we tackle the problem now, it may not arise again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 579618,
      "EditedText": "That is what I understood."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 579621,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate for us to invite the minister and such senior civil servants as he feels necessary to come on that day to address the issues raised?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 579631,
      "EditedText": "That is the date that I got from the previous meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 579632,
      "EditedText": "That being the case, do we have time for all these deliberations and responses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 579635,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate for us to get the papers that we have discussed circulated as early as possible, in advance of the normal date?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document",
      "HeadingID": 17647,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 17647,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 579646,
      "EditedText": "The only problem with getting the views of the fishing industry is that the committee has to submit its views by 18 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 579651,
      "EditedText": "I do not wish to be critical, but tourism is such an important industry throughout rural Scotland—almost everywhere, local industries are largely based on tourism initiatives—yet only two short paragraphs are devoted to it in the report. I feel that the committee should flag up the importance of tourism throughout rural Scotland as a major employer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 579653,
      "EditedText": "I am a little concerned that the Rural Affairs Committee's remit seems to be the consideration of only agriculture, farming and fishing. I do not want to lower their priority. Tourism may be in the remit of another committee, but it is also in this committee's remit, as it is the Rural Affairs Committee. We must ensure that that message gets across and that we are not compartmentalised into considering only farming, fishing and forestry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 579659,
      "EditedText": "That will be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 579661,
      "EditedText": "I have a spare copy, which I will give you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Wakefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 579668,
      "EditedText": "What I suggested is that, although there is much evidence specifically about tourism, there has not necessarily been an analysis of how the different sectors of the economy, such as agriculture and fisheries, are supported. It might be useful to consider where the employment growth sectors in the economy appear to be and where there are opportunities to make a difference through the support that is provided. Tourism is one of the areas that is identified as important in the letter to the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 579673,
      "EditedText": "The point about the table on page 1 of the Executive's report is that it shows standard census categories for employment areas. Most tourism-related jobs would appear under the headings \"Hotels and Restaurants\" or \"Other Services\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Employment Patterns",
      "HeadingID": 17648,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ID": 17648,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 579679,
      "EditedText": "I was just trying to flag up the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries",
      "HeadingID": 17649,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ID": 17649,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 579682,
      "EditedText": "We come to the difficult part—we have to agree a date. It has been suggested that it would be better for us to go to Pentland House for the briefing, rather than for the Sea Fish Industry Authority to come here, as facilities there are better for the presentation that the authority wishes to make. The morning of Wednesday 8 December has been suggested. Does that suit everyone?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries",
      "HeadingID": 17649,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ID": 17649,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 579683,
      "EditedText": "We will go ahead on the basis of holding the briefing on the morning of Wednesday 8 December. Interruption. Does everyone have a copy of the letter now? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries",
      "HeadingID": 17649,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ID": 17649,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 579684,
      "EditedText": "Simon, do you want to say anything else about the letter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries",
      "HeadingID": 17649,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ID": 17649,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 579686,
      "EditedText": "The letter sets out the points that Simon mentioned when he spoke to us a few moments ago and includes his suggestions on how to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries",
      "HeadingID": 17649,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ID": 17649,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 579687,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with the approach that is outlined in the letter, as long as we flag up the point that I made earlier. Tourism is so important to rural Scotland that we should not simply consider figures in the way that we always have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Infectious Salmon Anaemia",
      "HeadingID": 17650,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ID": 17650,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 579694,
      "EditedText": "Is it the view of the committee that we should ask the Executive to supply us with  a detailed written submission on the latest evidence on infectious salmon anaemia and that, once we have seen that document, the matter can be discussed further?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.7200147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17645,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 17645,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 579557,
      "EditedText": "I know that in certain areas—specifically Argyll—forest roads that belong to different groups have been used to transport wood through different forestry areas. There has been a coming together of the people involved. Has there been a strategic decision that forest roads should be shared?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1658261+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 579612,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we have information when we question the minister. Perhaps we should have a meeting next week. If we are going to ask them to do an audit on the applications so that we are properly informed, we cannot demand it in such a short time scale. We want to sort out the problem and to help people. We do not just want to make political comments.We should ask for an audit and ask the minister to come and see us in a fortnight. A fortnight would give them adequate time to prepare an audit of the applications. In the meantime, the minister could examine other avenues of funding and perhaps—I understand that there is European funding—contact the Government to find out whether it can put in more money. That is an issue that we are uncertain about and we must sort it out. We need to do the groundwork between this meeting and the next."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:13.361802+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 579636,
      "EditedText": "Can I suggest that, in your letter to the minister, you emphasise the urgency of the matter? Would it help, John Farquhar, if we underline the fact that we see this matter as very urgent? We are allowing for time to carry out an audit, because that will inform our questioning, but a paragraph about the urgency would be appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:13.361802+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3226
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Agricultural Business Improvement Scheme",
      "HeadingID": 17646,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ID": 17646,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 579625,
      "EditedText": "It might be useful to invite the industry to put forward a couple of case studies. Reading about the direct experiences of a few farmers who have encountered difficulties with the scheme would help the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.2252455+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 16 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 14201,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 14201,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John McAllion): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 520659,
      "EditedText": "I welcome everybody to the fifth meeting of the Public Petitions Committee. I have received apologies from Christine Grahame and Margaret Smith, who are unable to attend. Other members may be on their way, but we should make a start now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 520663,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that last point. I accept that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee has the responsibility for changing the highway code, but it would do so only with the advice of the Transport and the Environment Committee. Can we refer the petition to both committees? That is agreed.The second petition is from Alex and Margaret Dekker and calls for action to be taken in relation to the Crown Office's decisions and considerations in prosecuting road traffic deaths. A very serious argument is put forward by Mr and Mrs Dekker concerning the frequency with which charges of causing death by dangerous driving that are brought by the police are downgraded by the Crown Office to charges of careless driving. As a member of the Westminster Parliament, I have had constituents who have been involved in exactly the same type of case. I suspect that a number of people in politics are aware of the problem; there have been two adjournment debates in the House of Commons relating specifically to it. The Crown Office, for whatever reason, is not applying the intention behind the law to accidents in which deaths have been caused by dangerous driving. I very much support our referring this petition to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, with the recommendation that it be treated as a priority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 520665,
      "EditedText": "I agree with everything that has been said. Like Phil, I wrote back to Mr and Mrs Dekker when their petition was brought to my attention to express my deepest sympathy and concern for the family, in the knowledge that this happens very frequently. We need to apply the stiffest possible penalties in such situations, in which families are profoundly affected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 520666,
      "EditedText": "This is a very serious issue, and the petition should be referred to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. The graph on the last page brings home to me how many of these cases have been downgraded—53 per cent by default. It is frightening to think that we put our faith in the justice system and this is what happens."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 520669,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. As you are a member of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, you can ensure that it does precisely that. I also suggest that in referring the petition to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee we note that this committee treats this issue very seriously and hopes that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will give it priority. That is agreed.The final petition is from the Almondell Terrace residents, asking for measures to be introduced to reduce the speed of vehicles using their road and for a feasibility study to examine the possibility of re-routing traffic to the sewage works so that it avoids the terrace. It could be passed to the Transport and the Environment Committee but it may be more appropriate for the clerk to write to the parties involved, East of Scotland Water and the local authority, asking for their views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 520670,
      "EditedText": "I suggest it would be appropriate to send it to the local authority and it is within our power to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 520671,
      "EditedText": "Like drinking and driving, it is a matter of getting the public to change their attitude. Every time we have a road safety issue such as this we need to send a message as widely as possible to all the agencies that may have an influence on promoting road safety. We might also want to say to the chief constable in the area that the Scottish Parliament regards road safety as paramount and that it is time we changed our attitude from one of cars as No 1 to pedestrians as first in the hierarchy, with cyclists next."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 14203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 520673,
      "EditedText": "The second agenda item is the progress of current petitions; the paper outlines the progress made on the 27 petitions we have dealt with up until today's meeting. I have suggested to the clerk that in future we might group petitions under the date of the meeting they were dealt with so that it is easier to refer to them. The earlier a petition came to this committee the more we should be concerned if nothing is being done about it. Are there any points about the progress of current petitions?We should note the first success of a petition to the Scottish Parliament in that the M77 has been included in the strategic roads review and work on it is planned to start in 2002 and finish in 2005—albeit as a public-private partnership. Phil, you are the local man."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 520676,
      "EditedText": "We need to agree the final text of the guidance document on public petitions and take a decision on the venue for the press launch on Tuesday 23 November. The legal team has suggested several amendments. Although most are minor and unlikely to cause controversy, we should go through them.The amendments are in bold type. On page 1, paragraph 4 of the guidance on submission of petitions, there is a new sentence about petitions being in the \"proper form\". It does not tell us much, but the issue is dealt with later in the guidance note. There is also a sentence that relates to the powers of the Parliament, which has been reworded and put in clearer language. It now says that\"petitions must request the Parliament to do something which it clearly has power to do.\"Are those amendments satisfactory?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 520680,
      "EditedText": "As far as I know, they could. This is a devolved Parliament and it was the committee's intention that anyone could petition it—not only to act within its devolved powers, but to ask it to take a view on non-devolved matters. The Parliament has the power to pass comment on non-devolved matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 520685,
      "EditedText": "I would like to check back on the media and the newspapers because I am sure that the Sunday Post—maybe I am one of the few who still read it—carried quite a scathing article about this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 520692,
      "EditedText": "We will check that out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 520696,
      "EditedText": "Can we be assured that that is the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 520698,
      "EditedText": "That is fine—I merely wanted that assurance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 520704,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 13 has been relocated. The clerk has just told me that it is not about admissibility; it is just guidance on how to petition the Parliament, so it should be at this point in the document rather than anywhere else.Are we agreed on paragraphs 13 to 22?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 520706,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful for me—just press a button and send."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 520709,
      "EditedText": "As I remember, we took out the bit about signatures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 520712,
      "EditedText": "What Steve has said raises an interesting point. Today or yesterday, there was something in the news about, I think, the Prime Minister, raising a point about the validation of e-commerce and signatures coming through the electronic mail. I would not want us to be flying in two different directions. It was suggested that people should be able to purchase goods via e-mail to help to develop e-commerce, and that there was therefore a need to be able to validate signatures over the internet. Does that have any implications for us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 520714,
      "EditedText": "I would not want us to fall foul of something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 520716,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 18 says, in effect, that once you have sent in the petition in e-mail form, signatures then have to be sent in by post, so that we know that they are valid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 520719,
      "EditedText": "Is the guidance that we have had acceptable? Do members agree with the wording of the document?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 520733,
      "EditedText": "The media people have said that they will apportion comments—not that politicians ever need people to make up comments for them. However, if anyone wants to make a particular comment, get in touch with Steve and he will get in touch with the media people to ensure that it is included.Is all that about the press launch and photo call agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14205,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ID": 14205,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 520734,
      "EditedText": "You will remember that I was to raise, at the conveners liaison group, the question of clerks of other committees clearing with our clerk any response they wish to send to petitioners. Time ran out at the meeting of the group, but the issue is on the agenda for the next one. We will, I hope, get the formal approval of all the conveners to clear responses with our clerk.There are petitions in the pipeline—one about Trident, another about the inquiry into safety in the Occidental accident on Piper Alpha. We will need to take legal advice as to what we can do with those, but you will be notified about that before the next meeting. Those petitions will be on the agenda of that meeting.Thank you all for attending, and I will see you at the press launch."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14205,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 520735,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 14:31."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 520664,
      "EditedText": "This Parliament has received a number of representations from Mr and Mrs Dekker and others in which they have underlined everything that you have said, convener. There is an organisation that is examining this issue, and I am sure that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will be pleased to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 520667,
      "EditedText": "One of the graph's most telling indications is of how the trend has continued to decline. This is not simply a matter of annual fluctuations; every year, fewer charges of dangerous driving are brought before the courts. That is a serious problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 520672,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point because most local authorities change traffic regulations on the advice of the police. So we should draw the matter to the chief constable's attention as well? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520674",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 14203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 520674,
      "EditedText": "I am delighted that the A77 has been given priority, but I will believe it when work starts, because there remains a question over the funding and there is a lot of concern in Ayrshire that a statement of good intent may be nothing more than that. If we meet again in 2002, I will compliment everyone if it has gone ahead."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 14203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 520675,
      "EditedText": "We should take this agenda item seriously and look at what is happening to petitions that we have passed on. For example, if you look at petition 4, from MacLay, Murray and Spens, solicitors, who were asking for changes in the Tenancy of Shops (Scotland) Act 1949, I note that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee wrote to the Minister for Justice about seven weeks ago asking for details of any plans he has to change the law in that respect. As far as we know there has been no reply and the committee has not dealt with the petition. We need to ensure that if a certain amount of time elapses and nothing has been done, we contact the committee and ask what is happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 520677,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to section 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 520679,
      "EditedText": "Yes we had, but I have thought about it again and on reading the list of who may petition the Parliament it seems that virtually everyone and their auntie can send in petitions. That is as it should be and I have no argument with it. The guidance suggests later that a petition may relate only to Scottish Executive business, but a petition might ask the Scottish Executive to put pressure on Westminster regarding a reserved matter. I also wonder whether there should be any restriction regarding the source of the petition—should the petition come from within Scotland and have a Scottish contact address? Could somebody down in Kent or Sussex petition the Scottish Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 520681,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. What about the source of petitions—can we accept a petition from Sussex?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 520682,
      "EditedText": "We can accept a petition from anywhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 520683,
      "EditedText": "Is that in line with what the committee wants? I have no objections to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 520690,
      "EditedText": "That has never been the case—this committee has always accepted petitions from individuals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 520691,
      "EditedText": "When I read that article I said to myself that it could not be right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 520694,
      "EditedText": "We rejected it because we could not read it. We gave the petitioner guidelines to help him submit a better petition.I wanted to pick up the point about petitions requesting the Parliament\"to do something which it clearly has power to do.\"The convener has said that the Parliament has the power to discuss non-devolved matters, but I worry that things cannot be changed when they are put down in black and white. I do not like the use of the words\"which it clearly has power to do.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 520695,
      "EditedText": "Those words are what the legal people recommend based on the fact that the wording is clear—they are not trying to narrow down the remit or to restrict it. The words are clearer and easier for ordinary people to understand. We have petitions about Trident that will be on our next agenda—such petitions will not be rejected because they relate to devolved powers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 520699,
      "EditedText": "I will go through the recommended amendments. Would any member like to say anything about the first page?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 520700,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 520702,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on paragraph 6, which is a new sentence relating to the return of petitions to petitioners for clarification when that is appropriate?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 520705,
      "EditedText": "In annexe A you will find the preferred format for public petitions to be submitted to the Scottish Parliament. Are there any points on that? You have also been issued with a copy of the electronic form for anyone who wants to submit a petition by e-mail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 520707,
      "EditedText": "If anything occurs to members of the committee and they want an amendment of any kind to this document, tell Steve Farrell, the clerk. We will obviously accommodate it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 520711,
      "EditedText": "Okay, so old age has not got to me yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 520713,
      "EditedText": "It is something that we will continually keep under consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 520720,
      "EditedText": "Copies of what the document will look like have also been circulated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 520723,
      "EditedText": "It is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 520726,
      "EditedText": "I do not mind that. I am quite relaxed about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 520727,
      "EditedText": "Me too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 520728,
      "EditedText": "I would quite like to be at the launch. Everyone from the committee should be there, because it is a first. I think this is a great committee, and it would be good if the people we are reaching out to are able to recognise who is on the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 520729,
      "EditedText": "No politician I have ever known has been shy about a photo call."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 520730,
      "EditedText": "Are we happy that all members of the committee should attend the photo call? And should it be in the mail room, or would you prefer somewhere else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 520731,
      "EditedText": "It is a good idea to hold it in the mail room. That would get the message over."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 16 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 14201,
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:08"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 520660,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is the consideration of new petitions. As you can see, there are only three petitions before the committee today. Petition 28 is from the 999 Clear Roads Campaign, which is asking for the introduction of a law that would require drivers to give way to the emergency services. The recommendation is that this petition be passed directly to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 520661,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is right. As I understand it, this provision is to be included in the highway code. The petitioners want it to be part of the law. They have been told that the Red Cross and St John Ambulance service support their petition. This is a very worthwhile campaign, and I hope that it is successful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 520662,
      "EditedText": "I heartily endorse everything that Sandra has just said, but we might also want to refer the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee, given that it is interested in road safety issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14202,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 520668,
      "EditedText": "I recognise that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will pick this up, but it is worth noting that the Minister for Justice answered a series of questions on this issue. When compared with those responses, the figures with which we have been presented here suggest a lack of clarity in Scottish Office records. Perhaps the Justice and Home Affairs Committee can consider that when it receives this petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 520678,
      "EditedText": "I thought that we had agreed section 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 520684,
      "EditedText": "We have accepted a petition from somebody in Canada who was pursuing the right to titles in Scotland. Anyone can petition the Scottish Parliament"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 520686,
      "EditedText": "Did it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520687",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 520687,
      "EditedText": "The article mentioned that this committee will not accept a petition from an individual. I am almost certain that it said that, but it should be checked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 520688,
      "EditedText": "I was not aware of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 520689,
      "EditedText": "It was quite a good article but it said that this committee would not accept a petition from an individual."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 520693,
      "EditedText": "I seem to recall that we rejected one petition from an individual and when we accepted a second petition from that individual we were criticised for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 520697,
      "EditedText": "We have the power to pass comment on such issues as Trident."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 520701,
      "EditedText": "Do members agree to the wording of paragraph 5?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 520703,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on paragraphs 7 to 12?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 520708,
      "EditedText": "Convener, this is probably just old age making me forget, but I had a feeling that there was something that said that electronic signatures were not acceptable on petitions. Does that not suggest that e-mails are not acceptable and that there has to be a proper signature?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Steve Farrell (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 520710,
      "EditedText": "When people receive an e-mail version of the form, they are prompted to print out a hard copy that they then send in with all the supplementary material and signatures. We do not want those to be sent to us by e-mail or via the internet. It is in the best interests of the petitioners and this committee to do it that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 520715,
      "EditedText": "I think that we agreed at an earlier meeting that we did not need a signature to accompany an e-mail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 520717,
      "EditedText": "Steve has just informed me that there will be a meeting in the next few weeks to talk about technical developments, so we can have a report from that at a future meeting of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 520718,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 520721,
      "EditedText": "It is looking good. My compliments to the chef."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 520722,
      "EditedText": "We have the small throwaway version and the main guidance. Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 520724,
      "EditedText": "Are both texts agreed to?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 520725,
      "EditedText": "The launch will be on 23 November and the media people have suggested that there should be a photo call and a press release with quotes from me and as many other members of the committee as want to be quoted. They have suggested to the clerk that I alone should attend—that is their suggestion, not mine. They think that nobody would turn up at a press conference here, with the whole committee, but that people would turn up if it were held in the mail room of the Parliament with post bags and stuff. What do members think?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ID": 14204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 520732,
      "EditedText": "Phil and I are just small—we can sit up on the counter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3464018+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 496320,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to issue 43 and  rule 6.11 of the standing orders, which relate to the Subordinate Legislation Committee. In a letter, the clerk to the committee outlines the committee's proposed amendment, which is incorporated in new rule 6.11.1(a)(ii), which states: \"subordinate legislation not laid before the Parliament but classified as general according to its subject matter.\"The committee wants to draw in more subordinate legislation—the Scottish statutory instruments—including those that are not necessarily laid before the Parliament. William Venters will explain what that means in terms of legal or judicial statutory instruments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "William Venters: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 496323,
      "EditedText": "The possibility was raised that other subjects could be included, but I am not in a position to give more explicit guidance on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 496324,
      "EditedText": "The clerk to that committee attempted to explain the situation to me by referring to matters that derive from Westminster legislation. The letter that we received from Alasdair Rankin indicated that there would be a letter from the Minister for Parliament, but we have not received it. Can Iain Smith expand on that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 496329,
      "EditedText": "I am interested to know what the word \"general\" means in that context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 496332,
      "EditedText": "We are a little under-prepared. I suggested to Alasdair Rankin that we would appreciate some clarification. While I am apologetic about the need to do so, we will have to hold a brief additional meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 496334,
      "EditedText": "That is as good a guess as any."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 496335,
      "EditedText": "Could we have a brief note that defines what the word means and then, if necessary, we can have another meeting? We would like to understand this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 496337,
      "EditedText": "Could we combine the two?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 496341,
      "EditedText": "Or by the Standards Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 496343,
      "EditedText": "I might be being slow, but does issue 41 relate to chapter 9, and are we coming to that? It is about the financial memorandum and is a substantial matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 496344,
      "EditedText": "That is dealt with in chapters 17 and 9."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 496345,
      "EditedText": "It is an essential matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 496347,
      "EditedText": "As we are still testing the water as to how committees operate, we would like to be able to review the position on deputy conveners in a few months'—or perhaps even years'—time. If, in future, it were decided that it would be sensible for committees to have deputy conveners, we would like to be able to do so without having to go through the rigmarole of changing standing orders. The intention is to go ahead and appoint temporary conveners, but to leave the door open for the Parliament, at some future date, to decide that committees should have deputy conveners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 496356,
      "EditedText": "Let me throw that open for discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 496357,
      "EditedText": "That is a neat solution. I accept that Parliament is at present acting unconstitutionally, in that there are no deputy conveners. The appointment of deputy conveners is a political issue that has not yet been agreed. This is a useful compromise—the position of deputy convener remains in theory, but it may be that, at some future date, this or another bureau will wish to bring deputy conveners into being. However, because there are no such people at the moment, we require a mechanism by which committees can continue to meet if the convener is absent. I was attracted by the temporary convener solution when the clerks first suggested it. It is a useful vehicle, and gives us a neat solution that almost squares a difficult circle. I am happy with it: it accords with what the bureau wants and with the best thinking of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 496360,
      "EditedText": "In the middle of the first page of chapter 17, there is a paragraph in square brackets. It says that more flexibility is needed for financial resolutions than is given by rule 9.12.6 of the standing orders. Our initial approach was to consider extending the three-month restriction in the rule to six months. Members will appreciate that this is a matter of business management, to give the business managers more flexibility. However, that approach has to be considered alongside the option set out in Mr McCabe's letter, which is to suspend the standing orders as indicated in rewritten rule 17.2, also on the first page. That option would allow rule 9.12.6 and its restrictions to fly off were a motion from the bureau to be received."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 496364,
      "EditedText": "The intention is to show that the clause is for the benefit of Parliament and not for the benefit of the Executive. If the wording is \"any member\", the Executive could try to force business through by suspending standing orders; if it is \"the Parliamentary Bureau\", there has to be at least an attempt to reach consensus in the Parliamentary Bureau, rather than use the weighted majorities in the bureau. The idea is that the Parliamentary Bureau is there to protect the minority members and individual members from abuse by the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 496369,
      "EditedText": "It appears to me that there is more in this proposal than a response to the specific difficulty that gave rise to it, about which I am entirely sympathetic. We should try to help the Executive smooth things along and assist the bureau to handle business within reasonable time scales, but this proposal seems to have wider implications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 496373,
      "EditedText": "It might do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 496376,
      "EditedText": "It is my understanding that standing orders as presently framed do not allow committees to suspend them. It has been suggested that our proposal amounted to a change to the present position, but I do not think that it is.I understand the points that are being made. I am not unsympathetic to the view that it is appropriate for members to be able to move a motion to suspend standing orders. We need to consider the change that is being proposed, which relates to suspending standing orders for a specific item of business. The idea is that when the suspension relates to an item of business, with respect to which it may be in force for several months, it should be moved on a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau. It may be that a change to the wording of our proposal is required so that it relates only to items of business and not to specific meetings. That would mean that any member could still move a motion to suspend standing orders at a meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 496378,
      "EditedText": "That is a step in the right direction and accords more closely with the bureau's intention when it discussed this issue. However, we are now in danger of having three balls in the air. First, there is the issue of timetabling financial memoranda, which can be dealt with in the interim by increasing the time limit from three months to 12 months. Secondly, there is the issue of the regular suspension of standing orders and the rights of members to be involved in that process. Thirdly, there is the issue of suspending standing orders because that is necessary to deal with a piece of legislation, rather than because of the circumstances of the meeting.The last two issues are complex, and I am not sure that we should rush into making a decision on them. The problem of what to do about financial resolutions strikes me as being capable of resolution, pending our review of standing orders next year, by substituting 12 months for three. We can take on board the other issues in our fuller review. They are complex issues and, as Donald rightly points out, they have implications for the way in which standing orders as a whole operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 496379,
      "EditedText": "We had suggested an increase to six months, but I have no difficulty with making it 12. What Mike has just said appeals to me as it is in line with how we have attacked every other issue—by solving the immediate problem and embarking on a longer-term process of examining the underlying issue in the light of experience, taking into account the wider implications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 496381,
      "EditedText": "Could the Executive live with that? We would increase the time limit from three to 12 months to deal with the immediate and any conceivable future difficulty but, as part of the committee's forward work load, we would consider the whole issue of the suspension of standing orders and how it should apply to specific items of business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 496382,
      "EditedText": "My concern remains that if we come across an unforeseen difficulty with the existing standing orders when dealing with a piece of legislation, we will have the same problem and may end up not being able to resolve it within standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 496388,
      "EditedText": "The problem has as much to do with recesses as it has with when Parliament is sitting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 496389,
      "EditedText": "That would be covered by Mike's suggestion to increase the time limit to 12 months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 496390,
      "EditedText": "Members' bills will be affected more than Executive bills because they do not undergo pre-legislative scrutiny, which may mean that committees take longer to deal with them at stage 1 than they would Executive bills, on which there will already have been consultation and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 496393,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 496394,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have reached a degree of consensus on that. We have agreed that we should have another brief meeting to consider the issue that we discussed earlier. Members will have an opportunity to raise any further points at that meeting, if they wish. We have explored the implications of this proposal as much as we can in the light of the understanding that we have been given, but I am happy to make provision on the agenda of our forthcoming meeting for re-examination of any aspect of this issue that we have overlooked. That is fair to everybody, given that people may want to go away and think about the outcome of this meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 496396,
      "EditedText": "They will be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 496398,
      "EditedText": "I understand that it is the Executive's intention to respond to the report, so that its response can form part of the debate on that. That is entirely welcome, although the Executive has been kept closely informed throughout this process. However, we set ourselves the clear target of implementing the changes to standing orders by the end of November. Given that some of these changes are important in terms of public perception of the Parliament, it is absolutely essential that space is made in the business programme—I say that in the hope that the Executive is listening—before 16 December to debate and implement the revised standing orders. I understand that implementation of changes is instantaneous once they have been adopted. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 496399,
      "EditedText": "The motion can make it so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 496400,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should do that. We will reconvene in January. We need some time to prepare for the new format for questions and other matters. The report will also have to be printed and supplied to members. Therefore, we must keep things moving.The Executive needs to have the report within the next week or so, so that we can get its response and get a debate scheduled. As far as I am aware, the Executive is sympathetic to doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 496402,
      "EditedText": "It is fair to lay down markers, although implementation is a matter for the bureau and the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 496407,
      "EditedText": "From the radio?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 496410,
      "EditedText": "We should ask Brian Monteith to repeat his argument in Scots."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C496411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 496411,
      "EditedText": "I would be tempted to tell you to away and bile yer heid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 496412,
      "EditedText": "You say that regularly,"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 496417,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to avoid it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13478,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 496419,
      "EditedText": "We should confine ourselves to what is within the remit of this committee. I do not have a problem with the oath being offered in Scots. We should not exclude anybody, no matter what languages they want to speak. However, for the Official Report, and other administrative reasons, we have to have some sort of—I do not like to use this word—standardisation. I agree with Murray Tosh that there are so many different dialects that it would be difficult to tie people down. We should consider what is in our remit. Signage comes under the remit of the bureau. We should not take this further than consideration of the oath in Scots."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13478,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 496421,
      "EditedText": "I disagree profoundly with that. The oldest colonial trick in the book—I am sorry, Janis—was to say that people should not speak the language that they wanted to speak because it could not be understood, and that we should all speak the same language. Let a thousand flowers flourish and a thousand ideas contend. Let people speak what they have learnt to speak and let the official report catch up with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 496423,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 496427,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 496433,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is any difficulty with recording it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 496434,
      "EditedText": "You started this debate by recommending a course of action that I do not think has been contradicted by anybody. Therefore, I think that we are getting into a right fankle for nothing. I am concerned about the way in which certain people are conducting this debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 496435,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 496437,
      "EditedText": "Do we concur on those three points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 496438,
      "EditedText": "I think so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 496445,
      "EditedText": "If their speech is reported badly, that is their fault."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 496450,
      "EditedText": "With the committee's agreement, we are trying to arrange for Paul Grice to attend on 14 December, to speak further about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 496451,
      "EditedText": "In that case, we will continue our discussion of this paper at that meeting, in the light of what Paul Grice has to say about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 496452,
      "EditedText": "Being a Scots speaker, I have a question about the English language. Can you tell me what unicameral means?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13480,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 496458,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that that was a political point, to be exploited subsequently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 496459,
      "EditedText": "Not at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 496462,
      "EditedText": "The next meeting is on 14 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 496463,
      "EditedText": "So the next meeting is in four weeks' time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13480,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 496467,
      "EditedText": "Are matters that are related to the way in which parties operate in the Parliament, and the way in which the Parliament interacts with the civil service, within the remit of this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13480,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 496471,
      "EditedText": "That is a rash thing to say. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 496472,
      "EditedText": "It is true."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
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      "ID": 13480,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 496473,
      "EditedText": "We will certainly consider anything that you have to say—even if it is in analysis of what you suggest—to help us to clarify as best we can whether there are subjects that are outside our remit, and whose responsibility those subjects should be.That concludes today's business, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 496474,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:07."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 16 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13476,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 496318,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Murray Tosh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 496319,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the seventh meeting of the Procedures Committee. We have quite a lot of paper in front of us, but we have been over much of it previously—he said hopefully. We might manage to get through it without getting bogged down in revisiting issues.With regard to the committee's priorities, three reports have come to us that we have not had the opportunity to examine fully. Those reports are on issues 41, 42 and 43. In addition, chapters 12 and 17 of the standing orders have been subject to some change since our previous discussion, in that there have been suggestions from the Parliamentary Bureau on how we might tackle the issue of temporary or deputy conveners. Changes to those chapters interrelate with issues 41, 42 and 43.We are invited to approve a draft report and the changes to standing orders consequent upon it; we have approved most of it already. It would be more appropriate to look at annexe 3 before we examine the report itself, because the report will simply reflect the changes that we make to standing orders. Having confused everybody with that, I refer the committee to annexe 3. It contains a chapter-by-chapter report on the amendments—including the consequent amendments—that we have previously agreed. Everything in chapters 2 and 5 was discussed at our previous meeting.Issue 42 refers to rule 6.6 of the standing orders. The document to which I refer is in the report that was before us at our previous meeting—I am sorry that the documents are not numbered for easy cross-referencing—and it outlines the problem that the Finance Committee mentioned. The papers that are before members are the brief paper on commissioning a report that went before the committee, a note on the Finance Committee remit from the clerk of the committee and a note on the remit of the Finance Committee from Mike Watson.The issue is that the Finance Committee is unable to examine a number of the areas that it wanted to explore; it has suggested that its remit be amended by the insertion of the words:\"other matters relating to the administration of public finance in Scotland.\"Those words are written into the draft standing orders as new rule 6.6.1(d). Rule 6.6.1(c) now reads:\"(c) Budget Bills; and—\"We have incorporated within the standing orders the request from the Finance Committee to have its remit extended. The significance of that is that is that it allows the committee to examine more than simply budgetary issues. It can, for example, examine issues relating to the Barnett formula and other matters that are important to the committee. I hope that I have made that clear. Are members willing to accept that amendment, which relates to the remit of the Finance Committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "William Venters (Senior Assistant Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 496321,
      "EditedText": "I had a chat with the clerk to the Subordinate Legislation Committee this morning. He indicated that many rules for sheriff courts and Court of Session procedure are made by statutory instruments, but are not laid before the Parliament. That committee would like to see them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 496322,
      "EditedText": "Does that exhaust the range of additional items of subordinate legislation? I understood from our earlier conversation with the clerk to that committee that there are additional instruments, which do not fall within that legal definition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Parliament (Iain Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 496325,
      "EditedText": "I cannot at this stage—the issue is still being fully considered, and I hope that that letter will come to you early."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 496326,
      "EditedText": "That presents us with a difficulty. While I have no difficulty on the legal instruments, I do not understand the additional points that we might have to take on board. I am not suggesting that there is anything inappropriate in what is proposed, but we must know what is being asked of us. That might mean that if we cannot clarify the matter, the issue might be lost as one of our priorities. I suggest that we meet later this week or early next week to examine that issue and to try to bring about a successful conclusion so that we do not lose the opportunity to include the issue in our final report on the standing orders. That requires that the Executive clarify urgently what it wishes to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 496330,
      "EditedText": "Does anybody know? John?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 496336,
      "EditedText": "If we do it that way, we will be approving the change unless there is any subsequent objection. We will be using a sort of negative statutory instrument procedure. I am wary of that because we risk doing so to spare ourselves—as busy people—the inconvenience of a further meeting. I would rather know what I will be agreeing to than to agree only to find out that I do not like it and that I want to object."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 496340,
      "EditedText": "I like the sound of that, but I am not sure that it is covered by the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 496342,
      "EditedText": "That deals with chapter 6. We have discussed previously the matters relating to chapter 7. The same is true of chapter 8, which contains references to sub judice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 496346,
      "EditedText": "Chapter 17 is of some concern.There is nothing new on chapter 11, so that takes us to chapter 12 and the issue of deputy conveners and temporary conveners. We discussed that extensively at our previous meeting. Members will recall that in relation to deputy conveners we find ourselves tangled in the matter of political balance among deputies. We agreed that the best way to handle that was to try and take the sting out of it by having a deputy convener only when the convener could not attend or chair the meeting—the falling-under-a-bus syndrome sprang to mind.The bureau has discussed our proposals and has indicated its desire to retain the principle of a deputy convener in the standing orders, as you will see in section 2A of chapter 12 of the draft standing orders, where the appointment of deputy conveners is written back in again. I think that it would be appropriate, at this point, to ask Iain to explain the thinking behind that. The committee had gone through it all and had decided against it; we are now being asked to reconsider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 496350,
      "EditedText": "You said \"if\". In effect, the Parliament is working unconstitutionally, in that we have not, so far, implemented such a measure. I do not see any way in which you could, legalistically, justify not having acted upon that. Surely, having come to your decision, and having got us to drop our proposal for temporary conveners, you have to move quite urgently on deputy conveners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 496354,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, you would amend paragraph 2A to read:\"The Parliament may decide, for each committee, on a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau—(a) to appoint deputy conveners;(b) the political party whose members shall be eligible to be deputy convener of the committee; or(c) that the deputy convener shall be chosen from the members not representing any political party.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 496358,
      "EditedText": "Is that the general view? Are we all agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 496361,
      "EditedText": "The problem is that stage 1 of a bill and a financial resolution, if required, must be taken within three months of each other. We had thought that extending that time limit would deal with the difficulty, which seems to affect only that particular process. Iain, as I understand it, the Executive, and therefore subsequently the bureau, are not happy to do that, and want to proceed on the basis of suspending standing orders. That seemed a bit strange to me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 496362,
      "EditedText": "There are certain advantages in taking the route of suspending standing orders. They go beyond the simple issue of the time scale for a financial resolution. We had found that there were some difficulties in dealing with emergency legislation, when a number of standing orders had to be suspended. At present, the problem is that standing orders have to be suspended for a specific meeting, as opposed to for a specific item of business. For the emergency legislation, it would have been helpful to be able to suspend the standing order for the item of business, so that all procedures could have been gone through with the necessary suspensions. There would be some benefit in going ahead with the change, irrespective of the decision on the time scale for a financial resolution.On the issue of the financial resolution, the reason for suspending the standing orders rather than changing the time scale is that it would probably be helpful to keep the target of dealing with both stage 1 and the financial resolution within three months of a bill being lodged. There are times when that might not be possible. For private members' bills, there will be no pre-legislative scrutiny before the bill is lodged; the committee might therefore wish to take longer to investigate the bill during stage 1. It might be difficult for a committee to conduct its inquiries in time, especially if the bill is lodged during one of the lengthier recesses. That is part of the problem with the flexible rolling programme, which extends over four years rather than over a specific parliamentary year. Legislation might be lodged just before the summer recess, giving committees no time to look at it. The ability to suspend a standing order to allow matters to be left for another couple of months would be helpful. It would give flexibility to the Parliament, to allow it to conduct its business and control its timetabling a bit better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 496365,
      "EditedText": "That is a noble interpretation of the role of the Parliamentary Bureau, if I may say so.It struck me that you were asking us to do something that you were asking us not to do in every other aspect of our work. In all the other issues that we have considered, the line that Mr McCabe and you took, and the line that the Parliamentary Bureau has taken, has been, \"These are very early days. We do not yet really know how things will work. Please go slowly and tread gently, and do not change anything substantial until we have more experience.\" Yet there is now a proposed change involving the suspension of standing orders that seems to be quite radical and based on very little experience. It seems to be out of synch with your general approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 496367,
      "EditedText": "I am not a great standing orders person. However, to build standing orders on the assumption that they will be regularly suspended does not seem to me to be at all a clever idea. What is the purpose of the original rule? Presumably, it is that parliamentary legislation should take some account of its cost. Is there any purpose in the three-month rule, or in having any other time limit? Could not the purpose of the standing orders be addressed in some other way? I would need a lot of convincing that one can build a whole edifice on the assumption that one will regularly remove one of the stones. To do so seems daft."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 496368,
      "EditedText": "I was generally comfortable with the proposal when the bureau discussed it, but the explanatory note that John Patterson has written disturbs me quite a lot now. It suggests that a member would no longer have the right to move a suspension of the standing orders for either Parliament or committee business, and that such a suspension would require a decision of the Parliament. That is extremely inflexible.Donald Gorrie is right on a general point: building in a provision that says that we will have to suspend standing orders in order to do some things means that the standing orders are, by definition, defective.There might be a way round the problem. Given that there will be a further review of standing orders in the spring, if the time were changed to 12 months, that would mean that nothing that was introduced between now and the spring would be in any great difficulty or danger. The 12-month period would be entirely flexible to cater for anything that was introduced from now on.We will observe the three-month limit for the two bills that are creating the problem at the moment. Essentially, with a 12-month limit, anything introduced from now on would have to be taken by the end of next year, by which time we would have looked at the standing orders again and had the opportunity to consider the matter more fully. I am not saying that there is anything especially wrong with the Executive's proposal, but I would be more comfortable—because of the issues that have been raised—if we took the easier route of allowing 12 months. We could put the issue on our list of things to be considered in the full review of the standing orders next May. I am uncomfortable about removing rights from individual members, and the Executive's proposal appears to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 496371,
      "EditedText": "Our point is simply that the proposal builds in more inflexibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 496372,
      "EditedText": "Is that a point of principle, or do you think that the proposal would cause practical difficulties? I know that that is difficult to predict."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 496374,
      "EditedText": "Iain was fairly honest in saying that this proposal might have wider implications and in explaining why the amendment had been put before us. I am comfortable with it because, although it offers flexibility, there is a built-in control mechanism. This power should not be used willy-nilly, and the reference to the Parliamentary Bureau is there to ensure that the system is not abused.I agree with what Murray said about the proposal going further than we envisaged, but there is a pull-back in terms of the bureau's role in exercising the power to move a motion for suspension of standing orders. I am more relaxed about this than some others around the table. The proposal goes further than we originally envisaged, but it includes a defence against abuse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 496375,
      "EditedText": "You have said that, and the memorandum attached to the minister's letter mentions the bureau's role\"as a safeguard against this procedure being abused\".The only motion that we have had so far to suspend standing orders came from the bureau and related to the emergency legislation, for which the power was used entirely responsibly. It is curious to proceed on the basis of avoiding an abuse when no one has exploited the system. I am familiar from other arenas with the idea of suspending standing orders, and it is a useful facility for allowing a meeting to disentangle itself if it gets caught up in some sort of procedural nightmare caused by the inflexibility of its rules. It is a useful and flexible mechanism to have at one's disposal. However, I am uncomfortable with the idea that it should be used only when the bureau has debated that in advance. That is not what the power to suspend standing orders is for. It exists to deal with the unanticipated rather than the anticipated.I endorse Donald's point that to proceed on the basis that standing orders might be suspended regularly because procedures are not robust enough is to hit the wrong target. We should ensure that our procedures are as robust as they can be and build in the most flexible mechanism for digging ourselves out if they prove insufficiently flexible in practice. With respect, I do not think that that is done by making provision for the suspension of standing orders on a motion of the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 496377,
      "EditedText": "How do members feel about that? Iain's suggestion is—if I have misunderstood him, he should butt in—that we disentangle the two proposals: in other words, that we should not replace \"member\" with \"Parliamentary Bureau\", but should introduce the phrase \"for any item of business\".Any motion lodged by the bureau to suspend standing orders will, in any case, be moved by a member—presumably by the minister. As I understand it, the Executive's concerns relate to the substance of the original proposal, which was to be able to suspend standing orders for a particular item of business if it cannot be handled within standing orders. I am more sympathetic to that, although, in the longer term, I would rather we had standing orders that did not need to be suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 496384,
      "EditedText": "As I have said before, the problem with that is that the present wording of standing orders allows for their suspension only for a specific meeting. If we are trying to deal with a problem that will arise at several different meetings in the course of a bill's passage—when it comes before the Parliament, when it come before a committee and when it comes back before the Parliament—it is necessary to suspend standing orders repeatedly to deal with the same item of business, rather than to do it once and for all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 496385,
      "EditedText": "We should debate that issue more fully, rather than implement a change now. I appreciate the problem and accept that it exists. It is right that the Executive has drawn it to our attention, but I am sure that we cannot solve it, even by careful drafting, at this meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 496386,
      "EditedText": "On the whole, suspending standing orders is used by the establishment to push through measures to which there is opposition. We need to be careful about reducing the chances of people who want to fight a vigorous rearguard action, whether on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill or on hunting. They deserve a proper hearing. Suspending standing orders once for an item whenever it is debated is the wrong approach. The people who are sponsoring a measure should have to go through that procedure every time that it is debated; that will encourage them to stay within the rules. I would need to be persuaded further of the need for any change, so Mike's suggestion is a good one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 496392,
      "EditedText": "Would the proposal for an extension of the time limit to 12 months remove that difficulty?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 496401,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C496408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 496408,
      "EditedText": "No. I was e-mailed about it.You are quite wise to draw attention to the present arrangements, which I accept. They allow the degree of participation in Scots that most members probably feel they could give.However, I am concerned when I hear Mike Russell talk about the signage. I refer the committee to the issues paper, which talks about the oath of allegiance and affirmation. It explains that, although it may have been a mistake to miss out a Scots oath or affirmation, the oath or affirmation was provided in Cantonese, Hindi, Gujarati, Urdu and Punjabi, which were identified as the most popular non-English languages in Scotland. I suggest that to choose to have signage in Scots as well as in Gaelic and English, but then to leave out those other languages would be absurd.It may be that Scots has a great deal to offer to our current form of English. There is much in what we say that is drawn from it. But to suggest that people might want a whole report in Scots when it is not spoken in the chamber, or signage in Scots when it is not the common language that is used in Scotland, is to take this too far—almost to the point of political correctness. That will only serve to expose this Parliament to further ridicule that we would be wise to avoid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 496413,
      "EditedText": "It is often said to him as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 496415,
      "EditedText": "The problem is that Scots is not the same from one end of the country to the other. There are words in Rob Fairnie's letter that I have never heard anyone say. There are some words whose meaning I can only work out from the context. It is not wise to speak in that style for the Official Report without ensuring that there are reporters who are familiar with the various Scots dialects, there being many regional dialects in Scotland. It would be sensible for someone who wanted to have a letter like Rob Fairnie's printed in the Official Report to ensure that someone was present who knew what all those words meant, and how to spell them.If members want to make points in Scots, they should do so sensibly. That does not show any disrespect to anybody, any more than it is disrespectful to tell people who speak Gaelic that the official report cannot cope with Gaelic unless notice is given. Presumably, the official report has to have an ear for whether Western Isles or Argyll Gaelic is spoken, as there are differences of vocabulary and pronunciation there too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 496416,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we should have a linguistic debate on this matter—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 496418,
      "EditedText": "The point that you made about Gaelic is simply not true. Quite clearly, there are dialect words in Gaelic as there are in English, and different words are used in different circumstances, but there is no doubt that virtually every word that is spoken in Gaelic in the chamber will be clearly understood by every Gaelic speaker. Certainly accents differ throughout the country, but they, too, are easily understood.One of the problems with Scots is that there is occasionally, perhaps, a tendency for what a colleague calls hyper-Scots, which is when one goes into overdrive to ensure that everything is expressed in Scots. It is far better to be relaxed and natural about Scots, as David Purves and others are. I have to condemn Mr Monteith's view that there is something politically correct about this. There is nothing politically correct about giving a place in the sun to a language of Scotland that is, as Gil Paterson said, spoken by its people. That is not politically correct; it is human rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 496422,
      "EditedText": "We are saying that the oath should be provided and allowed in Scots. Do we agree on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 496426,
      "EditedText": "To the corporate body. Do we agree on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 496428,
      "EditedText": "Thirdly, if members want to speak Scots, they should be allowed to do so, and it should be recorded in the Official Report. Does anyone disagree with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 496431,
      "EditedText": "That is not what I was hearing around the table, but if we are all agreed on that, I am delighted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 496441,
      "EditedText": "Och, they would get used to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13479,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13479,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 496448,
      "EditedText": "We compliment you on your work rate, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 496453,
      "EditedText": "Unicameral is actually Latin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13480,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 496456,
      "EditedText": "When I go abroad, people ask whether I speak English. I say that I struggle with it, but that I can get by. Now you are talking Latin. Come on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 496457,
      "EditedText": "I have a serious point to make, but before I do so, I shall just mention what Nicholas Edwards, the former Tory Secretary of State for Wales, said. He was upbraided, at a meeting in Wales, for condemning Welsh speakers on the ground that they had no Welsh word for entrepreneur. Somebody at the back of the room shouted, \"What is the English word for entrepreneur?\" Laughter. The House of Lords issue is clearly not going to go away. There has been further press speculation today about the possible role of the House of Lords in the Scottish Parliament. On 14 December, after we have had our meeting, might the committee consider addressing that matter early next year? It is so daft that it would not take us very long."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 496461,
      "EditedText": "Will we meet in two weeks' time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13480,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 496464,
      "EditedText": "Yes, except for the brief meeting that is yet to be timetabled, at which we will discuss the two matters that were not entirely sorted out this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 496465,
      "EditedText": "Are—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
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      "ID": 13480,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 496468,
      "EditedText": "I hate to say it, but it is possible that they are. We will reflect on that and give you a considered answer. There are obviously big issues, concerning the way in which members interrelate with one another, that someone must be responsible for handling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 496470,
      "EditedText": "Donald, your thoughts are always welcomed by the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 496327,
      "EditedText": "The proposed wording seems to be omnibus. It is not restricted to legal issues, but covers everything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13477,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 496328,
      "EditedText": "When I first read that, I thought that it went beyond omnibus. I thought that it would give the committee a remit to examine matters that were not related to Scottish statutory instruments. I do not understand what is meant by the word \"general\". This appears to me to be almost a vires issue, which goes beyond the remit of this Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496331",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 496331,
      "EditedText": "No, I am afraid that I cannot help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 496333,
      "EditedText": "I thought—and this might be a stupid idea—that the word \"general\" referred to issues not specific to a subject covered by a committee of the Parliament, but that is a layman's guess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 496338,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 496339,
      "EditedText": "We could have a note to explain that to us and we can then wait on you at your pleasure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 496348,
      "EditedText": "With respect, if we adopt the standing orders now, and retain the provision for deputy conveners, you must then determine a method for appointing deputy conveners. That will bring up the issues that were put to us in the first place, such as how to accommodate the need for delicate party balances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 496349,
      "EditedText": "I accept that that issue will have to be resolved if the Parliamentary Bureau decides to put a motion to the Parliament to appoint deputy conveners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 496351,
      "EditedText": "The idea—which comes from the bureau, not just the Executive—is not to drop the proposal on temporary conveners: it is simply to have an enabling clause in the standing orders to allow the appointment of deputy conveners if the Parliament so decides. If, at some point in the future, the bureau and the Parliament decide that they would rather have deputy conveners than the temporary convener arrangement, they are able to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 496352,
      "EditedText": "Would the temporary convener arrangement fall when deputy conveners came in? Logically, it should."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 496353,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Paragraph 8A of the draft says that when a committee does not have a deputy convener, the temporary convener comes into effect.It might be helpful if the wording of paragraph 2A of the draft were changed slightly, to say that the Parliament may decide, for each committee, on a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau, to appoint deputy conveners. At the moment, it does not say that, and is a little unclear. The clause that I just suggested would be a \"may\" clause, and thus enabling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 496355,
      "EditedText": "That makes it clear. It is an enabling provision that allows the Parliament to do that if it so wishes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 496359,
      "EditedText": "All right. Chapter 12 is taken care of. Everything in chapter 13 was dealt with previously, and there were some small points in chapter 15 that we dealt with at the previous meeting.There were some fairly substantial changes in chapter 17. Issue 41 was flagged up at the previous meeting. The papers that members have include the short report that came to that meeting of the committee, asking whether we wanted a full report. They also include my letter to Tom McCabe, Sir David Steel's letter to me, and Tom McCabe's letter to me, including his memorandum and proposal. Although I had that memorandum at the previous meeting, members had not seen it beforehand, so there is a lot of substance in today's papers. In effect, the draft standing orders incorporate the recommendations of the Executive, rather than a proposal put forward by the clerks, which would have tackled the difficulty by extending the time from three months to six months. Before I go any further, I will ask John Patterson to explain that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 496363,
      "EditedText": "Why, in paragraph 17.2, have you deleted \"any member\" and proposed the insertion of \"the Parliamentary Bureau\"? Although I understand the point that you made about financial resolutions, that deletion and that insertion represent a significant shift in power from the situation that was envisaged when the consultative steering group considered these matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 496366,
      "EditedText": "It depends on one's opinion of the purpose of the change. The purpose of the change is to allow flexibility if problems with standing orders arise that we have not yet envisaged. We do not yet know which other problems we may find with the standing orders. We have dealt with the ones that we have come across so far, but this change would allow flexibility to look at individual issues as they arise, and, I hope, to resolve them.As I said, the reason for inserting \"the Parliamentary Bureau\" is to protect Parliament, and to ensure that Parliament decides, rather than the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 496370,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Donald that standing orders should not be suspended lightly. If the bureau were responsible for moving such a motion, that would counter claims of abuse, from whatever side they come. Could the clerks clarify what is meant by:\"The suspension of standing orders for the purpose of committee business would require a decision of the Parliament\"?What implications would that have for committees? Can you foresee difficulties?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 496380,
      "EditedText": "I support that, convener. If we start to split things up, we may get into a difficult situation from which it will be hard to escape. We should opt for the delaying tactic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 496383,
      "EditedText": "In that case, under existing procedures a member could move a motion for the suspension of standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 496387,
      "EditedText": "Iain, how often will the problems with time limits arise? Presumably they will arise only at the very outset."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 496391,
      "EditedText": "This has a great deal to do with the work load of committees. It has become an issue because of the experience of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which is having to complete stage 1 consideration of two bills before Christmas because the three-month clock is ticking. I understand that the committee also wishes to consider as a priority the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill, which means a further concentration of its work load. If three bills were lodged together and all of them went to the same committee, its work load would be impossible, even if there were no difficulty in terms of public reaction. The Executive is being very responsible about timing the introduction of bills so that that does not happen at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 496395,
      "EditedText": "I want to make two general points. First, the Executive has not had a great deal of time to examine the proposed changes. We will submit a letter if we would like any technical changes to be made, which can be considered at the committee's forthcoming meeting. Secondly, because I have a tidy mind, I am not happy with the numbering of changes to standing orders. As these will be, in effect, the first standing orders of the Scottish Parliament, they should be numbered consecutively. On the first page of the draft document, for example, rules should be numbered 3, 4, 5, rather than 3, 3A, 4. I hope that when these are submitted as draft standing orders they will be renumbered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13477,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 13477,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 496397,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, we cannot do that without changing the numbering in the reports. When we issue annexe 4, the fully revised set of standing orders for the report to Parliament, we will take that into account.For our next meeting, we should ask the clerks to come up with a revised standing order replacing the three-month time limit with a 12-month limit, so that we can approve that. As things stand, that is the committee's decision, subject to further consideration.Thank you for your patience during that wander through annexe 3. The draft report will now be reworked to take into account the decisions that we have made on annexe 3. At the moment, the document is a draft for purposes of information, but it will absorb and encompass the changes that have been agreed and will form the basis for the report that will be submitted to the Parliament, which will have to approve the revised set of standing orders. We are still hopeful that that will happen before the turn of the year. That is our target, and we are hoping to be given a time slot for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 496403,
      "EditedText": "If everybody is content about what has been decided, we can move to item 2, which is the Scots language. This matter has been remitted to us by Sir David Steel, and we have copies of his correspondence from Rob Fairnie and David Purves.We should be aware that our remit on this is quite narrow. Much of what is proposed, particularly in the correspondence from Mr Fairnie and Mr Purves, is a matter for implementation and budget expenditure that is not within our remit. It is largely a matter for the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, which holds that budget.I am not entirely certain that some other matters are in our remit, but it is appropriate for us to discuss and take a view on issues such as the Official Report, the swearing of oaths, and so on, which relate to business in the chamber.The issues paper addresses those matters: first, the use of Scots in the oath of allegiance; and, secondly, the use of Scots in the Parliament and in the Official Report. We cannot address the issue of signage, as that is not in our remit. If members wish to explore that issue, we will listen to all points of view, but I think it is only those two matters that concern us here.I have no difficulty with the idea that we should offer members a Scots language oath. I think that it was an oversight not to make one available. I dare say that, if it had been available, some members might have chosen to repeat their oath in the Scots language.As I understand it—perhaps I should ask the official report to report on this—the official report is geared to receiving a whole speech in Scots, if notice is given, as it is with Gaelic. It is the responsibility of any member who wishes their remarks to be wholly or partly recorded in Scots to give notice and then to check how their speech has been reported. Speeches can be in Scots, if members want that, but a degree of responsibility lies with the member.I am not sure what else we can do, but obviously the people who have written to Sir David feel that more could be done. I see that Mike Russell has a suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 496404,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a suggestion, but wish to express strong support for Scots. This morning I received a copy of \"A Scots Grammar\" in the post from the author, David Purves. As I had already purchased one, I now have two copies—one will be an ideal Christmas gift for somebody. In his letter David, who is an authority on this, says that he feels like one of the last of the Mohicans.There is a feeling that Gaelic, which I have learned and greatly support, gets substantial support, but that Scots is often forgotten. We should not forget it. It was a major oversight that the oath was not available in Scots. Having taken the oath in Gaelic, I would certainly have taken it in Scots as well. We must ensure that the oath is available in Scots next time.I know that we have a narrow remit, but that does not mean that we should not express our views. The lack of Scots signage is a considerable difficulty. It should be rectified in the new building, and I hope that consideration will be given to rectifying it in that distinguished Scots building that we temporarily occupy at the top of the Mound.Equally, in the Official Report, I know that notice has to be given, but I hope that the official report will be sensitive—as I notice it is—to the use of Scots phrases and words. I hope that we will be encouraged by that as we read the Official Report, and that we will no longer be ashamed to use the language with which many of us were brought up, and which all of us treat with affection and respect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 496405,
      "EditedText": "We have had many splendid examples of the use of Scots. I am sure that none of us is remotely ashamed to speak in that way. I have no difficulty with passing the suggestion forward to the corporate body that it should consider signage in the new building. It might demur a little about signage in our present building."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C496406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 496406,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for not giving notice sooner. I only recently found out that this item was on the agenda this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 496409,
      "EditedText": "I take up your challenge for a full report in Scots. We could easily do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 496414,
      "EditedText": "What is wrang with the whole thing is that we have to give notice that we will speak in Scots, even though it is the language of the Scots and is what the common people use. That can be demonstrated in almost every radio or television interview with children or adults, in which normal Scots people can be heard speaking very slowly—almost like foreigners—because they are thinking in Scots and speaking in English. You just need to travel the streets of Leith, Glasgow, or anywhere else, to find out what the real language is. It is a pity that the Parliament does not promote the Scottish language effectively.I am a Scots speaker, but I am speaking English now. No one coming before a Parliament should need to say that they are going to speak in Scots. We have all got guid Scots tongues in wir heids in any case, so the reporters should be able to pick that up.Scots should be a common and ordinary thing. The fact that we are having a debate suggests that there is a problem. The big, continuing problem is that people are told from an early age by teachers, parents and others to speak properly when they are speaking Scots. It is perceived to be the language of a gypsy or someone who is not quite whole in their being. The sooner that changes the better. It disnae happen when people speak in Dutch, although that is a derivative of German. It would be unthinkable that a meeting like this would take place there.Something needs to be done. Speaking in Scots should be an ordinary thing. It should no be hyped up; it should be allowed to drift in of its own volition, withoot putting barriers in its way. People should not have to put up a flag and say that they are going to speak in a particular way today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 496420,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone disagree with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 496424,
      "EditedText": "We are saying that the issue of signage should be remitted to the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 496425,
      "EditedText": "To the corporate body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13478,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 496429,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 496430,
      "EditedText": "So what is the area of disagreement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 496432,
      "EditedText": "Can I counter something that was said? In Switzerland three languages are reported in all situations, and dialects, too, are picked up. We are talking about a derivative, if you like, of the English language, but the minds of some people are struggling with the idea of recording it properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 496436,
      "EditedText": "We have all agreed on a course of action. We should move on and discuss other matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 496439,
      "EditedText": "The question of whether notice must be given beforehand is an important issue. I do not think that people should have to give notice. A circular should be sent to all members, saying that, although we are happy to encourage them to speak in Scots, it is for them to ensure that their words are reported correctly in the Official Report. A lot of people who are happy to speak Scots, but who are not in the habit of writing it, might find the reporting of it quite difficult. It is up to the speaker to ensure that he is properly reported. The idea of having to give notice in advance is a symbolic inhibition that we could do without. I was not sure what your remarks meant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 496440,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that every member of the official report staff would be capable of writing down Scots as it was spoken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 496442,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that they could cope with the dialects that are spoken in Orkney and Shetland, Aberdeenshire, Ayrshire and the Borders, where local vocabulary and pronunciations are vastly different. That would be quite a tall order. Anybody who wants to speak in this formal, literary Scots would be well advised to give notice, so that their remarks could be properly reported and written down for posterity. I presume that that is their point in speaking it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 496443,
      "EditedText": "The words \"well advised\" are, if I may say so, well advised. Rather than following a formal prescription, people should recognise that they are well advised to give notice and should accept the consequences if they do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 496444,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is perfectly clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scots",
      "HeadingID": 13478,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 13478,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 496446,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We are all agreed on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13479,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ID": 13479,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 496447,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 on the agenda deals with the letters that I have negotiated with the clerks and sent out since the last meeting, which give all members notice of our considerations and the points that we made at that meeting. Unless anyone who has read these has concerns about any inaccuracy that they might contain, we simply note them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 496449,
      "EditedText": "Item 4 on the agenda is a paper that was submitted after the brief discussion that we had at the previous meeting, in which we commit ourselves, if we adopt the recommendation, to consider how we might extend our remit to cover the sorts of issues that Paul Grice raised about general liaison matters. Did Paul want to speak to the committee about this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 496454,
      "EditedText": "Oh, is it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 496455,
      "EditedText": "It means that there is just yin buddie that will discuss the maitter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 496460,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should wait until the primary legislation is passed in Westminster before we embark on a discussion of the role of the House of Lords in relation to the revision of our legislation. However, the general issue of our relationship with other parliamentary bodies is an appropriate matter for discussion.Do members have any other points that they want to raise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 496466,
      "EditedText": "You have just cost me 50p, by the way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Liaison",
      "HeadingID": 13480,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ID": 13480,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 496469,
      "EditedText": "If I produce some thoughts on that subject, might that be a starting point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8157002+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 285667,
      "EditedText": "We should consider Ben's proposal because we have three hours tomorrow. We can assume, can we not, that the Minister for Health and Community Care will always be with us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 285668,
      "EditedText": "We could ask her about this topic, saying, \"It is your Executive that wants the urgency\", and she can answer questions on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 285669,
      "EditedText": "No. We cannot ask the minister to get involved in this, but the idea of truncating her session and using the time in other ways is a sensible one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 285673,
      "EditedText": "And we want the bill by January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 285676,
      "EditedText": "I agree 100 per cent with that. The committee has to look forward a little more. We are trying to take on too much and we have to realise that certain things, such as this, will be priorities. We cannot fit it in with things such as three hours of questioning with the ministers or the Arbuthnott inquiry. We are trying to do too much. We are not doing ourselves a service and we are certainly not doing a service to the people that we represent. We should postpone tomorrow's meeting with the ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 285678,
      "EditedText": "I cannot allow you to almost agree, Richard. We need a bit of unanimity on this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 285679,
      "EditedText": "Well, hear me out. The range of topics that we were proposing to question the ministers on tomorrow would have taken 36 hours, not three and a half. Tomorrow's session was doomed to be a failure anyway. I am sorry, as I know that I have not been at the committee to make that point. It has been difficult being on three committees, including the Standards Committee.I make a specific suggestion about tomorrow, which is that we do not totally cancel the ministers' visit, but ask them to come only to tell us about the Executive's forward planning. That will allow us to determine how we relate our work process to them. We do not ask any other questions, but ask the ministers to make a five or 10-minute presentation on the forward plan, which we can then discuss briefly with them for half an hour before going on to the rest of the session. That would allow us to formulate our forward work, which—taking Irene Oldfather's point—is crucial. We need to focus on what we are doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 285680,
      "EditedText": "I have a greater degree of sympathy to that than to cancelling the ministers' visit. I spoke to them yesterday about the way in which I wanted the meeting to proceed, in terms of their statements about what they consider to be the headline issues, their work load for the coming year and so on. That would be a way of taking forward dialogue and setting our minds as to what we should be addressing.Obviously, we had asked for questions. I had been going to suggest that we found ways of locking them into areas, rather than asking specific questions. Richard's suggestion would be a useful way forward because it would mean that we were still hearing from the ministers. They have been doing work in preparation for tomorrow's meeting. In respect of that, it would be useful at least to hear about their forward work plan. However, it would also free up extra time to look at the bill. Do people feel that that is a better way to proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 285681,
      "EditedText": "I doubt whether we will get through it in half an hour. We are talking about 10 minutes from each minister—that is, 20 minutes—and 10 minutes for discussion, which is \"Here's your hat. What's your hurry?\" Would it not be better to reschedule the meeting with the ministers so that we can hear what they have been preparing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 285685,
      "EditedText": "I think it is just tokenism."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 285686,
      "EditedText": "It is a waste of their visit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 285688,
      "EditedText": "I agree that it is all or nothing and that we are pretty much in an emergency situation over this. The minister will understand. Perhaps she could be asked to state in advance, in writing, her ideas about the Executive's work programme. That would assist us. We will never be able to stick to half an hour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 285690,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should just press ahead with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 285691,
      "EditedText": "I tend to agree, although I have to go to Brussels tomorrow. It is really up to the rest of the committee, but it is more appropriate to set aside the proper time to discuss this. We are all agreed on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 285697,
      "EditedText": "The people who are giving oral evidence to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 285704,
      "EditedText": "They could join us here in the chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 285707,
      "EditedText": "I want to take guidance on what committee members want to do with the rest of this morning's agenda. If we are not questioning the ministers tomorrow, item 3, on agreeing our line of questioning to the ministers, is unnecessary, and falls. We then have item 1, which we are discussing at the moment, and item 2, which is a consideration of the draft Arbuthnott report. We have a couple of options. One is to conclude this morning's discussion on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill and concentrate on it tomorrow. Bearing in mind, however, that a lot of that three hours may be taken up with hearing evidence from other people—Interruption. I keep being reminded of reasons why those things do not work. I have completely lost my thread now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 285719,
      "EditedText": "Convener, we have an agenda before us. The first item is the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. We have taken a decision on that. The second item is \"Fair Shares for All\", the Arbuthnott report. Item 3, on the line of questions to the Minister for Health and Community Care and the Deputy Minister for Community Care, falls, because we are not seeing them. Why are we not continuing to item 2 now? I cannot understand that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 285721,
      "EditedText": "My only point is that, if we spend a lot of tomorrow listening to evidence in the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, that cuts down our time for discussions. If that is want we want to do tomorrow, I think that we have to find a way to get extra time for discussion today. That is what I was trying to say.There are two options: one is to continue, and finish this meeting at 12.30; the other is to do something this afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 285722,
      "EditedText": "Can I suggest, convener, that we move on to the Arbuthnott report now? Depending on what time we finish that, we can return to the bill late this morning and continue into this afternoon, examining the non-contentious items. If we can clear everything except the areas that are of concern, that will allow us to focus on the issues tomorrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 285724,
      "EditedText": "With the proviso that we may have to continue to meet this afternoon, and that, at the end of this morning's session, we will suspend the meeting and reconvene this afternoon. We would need to be quorate to continue meeting as a committee. That would be in committee room 2. I am aware that that would mean members having to change their plans.We will now move on to agenda item 2. As I discussed with members at the beginning of this morning's session, this discussion on a draft committee report is held in private. Is that okay?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 285725,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 285726,
      "EditedText": "Meeting resumed in public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 285728,
      "EditedText": "Meeting adjourned at 12:33."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 285732,
      "EditedText": "Can we take each step at a time? Definition is the first step."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 285738,
      "EditedText": "That point is partly covered in the Scottish Law Commission's submission. On page 3, it mentions the principles of the Council of Europe, and its formula. It is all down to definition. The Law Commission submission mentions\"adults who, by reason of an impairment or insufficiency of their personal faculties\".We need to be specific. Like Richard Simpson, I have real concerns about including people with a specific learning difficulty. That difficulty could be minor, and it would be quite inappropriate for such people to have their rights removed because they fall under that banner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 285740,
      "EditedText": "That needs to be examined by the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. Does anybody have any points about the specified age of 16?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 285741,
      "EditedText": "There are two confusing points about that. First, the age of consent in Scotland has always been different from that in the rest of the United Kingdom. Now, as I understand it, consent means that someone is capable of making an informed decision. Secondly, professionals have to make a decision that the person they are discussing something with is capable of making an informed decision. That has nothing to do with age. When 16 is referred to, I think that it refers to other legal matters in terms of capacity. I therefore suspect that it is not a medical issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 285742,
      "EditedText": "I agree. The age issue is not our concern. All I would expect is some consistency of approach, but that is another point for the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 285745,
      "EditedText": "Presumably, most of the time decisions would be agreed upon in partnership. However, we need a law that covers the extremes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 285746,
      "EditedText": "That is where the issue is skirted round. At the end of the day, is the worst-case scenario that the view of the doctor or clinician is upheld over the view of the carer or proxy? That is a difficult decision. That is why I felt that I must mention the euthanasia statement. The priorities must be spelled out in the bill. I do not see a clear priority there as yet.Finally, section 44(2)(b) includes \"nutrition and hydration\" in the definition of medical treatment. Nutrition and hydration may be medical treatment, but they are also a comfort, just as nursing can be given to heal or to look after someone who is dying. The definition of medical treatment, which has been queried by the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and this committee, should perhaps be widened or removed. With the current definition, we could be in a position where patients can be denied food and drink, and so caused tremendous suffering, if someone says that a patient should receive no medical treatment.I think that there is a lack of liability in part 7, sections 73 and 74. As I state in my report:\"proxies shall incur no liability for any breach of duty or fiduciary duty if they have acted or failed to act reasonably or in good faith.\"The limit of liability on the individual carer, the proxy, is too narrow, especially when people who have a financial interest will be in that position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 285759,
      "EditedText": "There are situations where a doctor can issue a 24-hour or short-term incapacity certificate. There seems to be—this is the reality check—no concept of the dimension of time in parts of the bill. That also applies to the partial incapacity in assisted decision making: either one is in a situation where one could get permission or come to an arrangement, or one is not. I could not see a reference to a here-and-now problem. I have been through the bill and the closest reference to a situation is where a doctor—a GP—can issue some sort of 24-hour certificate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 285760,
      "EditedText": "The certificate is referred to at section 44(3)(b)—sorry, we are getting into detail—which says:\"or such shorter period from that date as may be specified\".So one can make the period as short as one likes. However, one must still have a mechanism whereby a certificate that says that a person is incapacitated is issued to the emergency team before they resuscitate an individual and do things to them that almost amount to assault but that are covered by the duty of care. That is how I understand the position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 285764,
      "EditedText": "We will come back to this discussion tomorrow, so we should ensure that we have received clarification on that point before then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 285765,
      "EditedText": "On the question of the balance, I think that it would be better to have a mechanism that did not involve the Court of Session in any dispute. For example, a patient with Alzheimer's disease is managed in a residential or nursing home—I think that Alzheimer Scotland mentioned this point in its evidence—and is being treated with neuroleptic drugs, which, under the guidelines, would not be regarded as appropriate in most circumstances. The next of kin, acting under section 1(4)(b), says, \"I do not want my relative to be treated in this way any more\", to which the doctor says, \"Yes, we should continue to treat them\". The way in which the bill reads at the moment means that the treatment has to be stopped and the doctor has to go to the Court of Session to continue it. I think that Ben is saying that that is pretty impractical.We need to establish an intermediate mechanism, such as an ethical committee of some sort within the health board to which the medical team and the other person can refer such cases in the first instance. Alternatively, there should be a requirement upon the individual who seeks to stop the treatment in the face of the doctor's disagreement to seek a second medical opinion. Ben may know if the requirement on the proxy, whoever that may be, to seek a second medical opinion is contained in the bill. Alternatively, can the proxy simply say, \"Bang, that's it\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 285776,
      "EditedText": "The bill removes a lot of the liability on the doctor's duty of care and gives it to someone who does not have the same level of duty of care, someone who has to satisfy a much lower level of what is right.Paragraph 7a(vi) of my report says:\"This section does not make clear the extent to which the ‘satisfaction' should be informed either medically or financially.\"The bill removes the duty of care from the doctor. He will not be working in partnership; he will be working under an individual who may well not be trained or who could be ignorant of the situation and who is working to priorities that include the past and present wishes of the incapacitated adult. The responsible person simply has to prove that he or she is reasonably satisfied."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 285778,
      "EditedText": "That is a completely different subject, but it is like the difference between the evidence required for a criminal conviction—beyond reasonable doubt—compared to a civil conviction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 285779,
      "EditedText": "That is a crucial point. An attorney cannot make a clinical judgment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 285784,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm, at the moment our job is to raise concerns about the bill that is in front us, although I take your point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 285793,
      "EditedText": "May I suggest that we first ask whether any committee members have other issues to raise? At the end, you can do a sweep up of anything that we have not covered, convener. I have one issue that I would like to raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 285795,
      "EditedText": "I have to be away at 3 o'clock.I wanted to raise the issue of research, which was put very powerfully by Alzheimer Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 285808,
      "EditedText": "As things stand, such matters depend on where the licence for an establishment is held. It falls to the registration officer of the health board to ensure that patients' funds are held and dispersed appropriately. There does not seem to be any change to that arrangement, although it is individualised—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 285810,
      "EditedText": "I have a brief point about the letter from the Scottish Intensive Care Society, which rightly says that intensive care \"is a continuous process with interventions varying in invasiveness\". It also says: \"Between the two extremes are many interventions that are performed regularly and for which no consent is currently sought.\"There seems to be a concern that doctors' decisions may be delayed by constant reference to the attorney."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 285814,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm Chisholm's point was well made. We have to clear up some of the ambiguities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 285815,
      "EditedText": "My concern is that we should meet the requirements of the European convention on human rights. I feel that we might be wasting our time going through the bill if it is not going to meet the test that will be applied. I do not think that the test has been applied to the bill yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 16 November 1999",
      "HeadingID": 7554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 285612,
      "EditedText": "This morning, we will discuss the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. This is the first chance that the committee has had to consider the bill. You will remember that Ben Wallace volunteered to be our committee's rapporteur on the bill. He has liaised with the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and has attended some of its meetings. Richard Simpson and I also attended one of the meetings.Our discussion of the bill will be in public. I suggest that we then discuss in private item 2 on the agenda, the Arbuthnott draft report, as committee reports should not be made public until they are formally published. I suggest that we also discuss in private item 3 on the agenda, our line of questioning when the Minister for Health and Community Care and the Deputy Minister for Community Care are with us tomorrow.Do we agree to do that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 285613,
      "EditedText": "Jennifer Smart will clarify what the committee is being asked to do at stage 1 of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 285616,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a point first, Kay. I want to ask the committee to express its concern at the way in which we have been forced to consider this important issue. It became clear to me, when I attended the Justice and Home Affairs Committee meeting, that many of the key points in the bill relate to the medical points in part 5. Because of the way in which the bill was parachuted in to us, we have not had time to hear evidence from key people. That is not to undermine the work of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, as it is considering the bill thoroughly and has a longer time in which to do so. I ask the committee to formally register concern about the fact that we have had insufficient time to consider the bill.I asked the clerk to consider what we can do at stage 2 of the bill and it seems that the committee cannot make comments and amendments at stage 2. We can, however, take evidence as a committee and then feed in amendments as members of the Parliament. This flags up an important point: while the Parliamentary Bureau is in dialogue with the lead committee, it should also ensure that the secondary committees have the opportunity to hear evidence at stage 1.Although we can hear evidence at stage 2—I will listen to members' views on whether we should do that—today is our only opportunity to discuss aspects of the bill as a committee. Our comments today should be on the general principles of the bill. Was that what you wanted to raise, Kay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 285617,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to express concern about the fact that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee is meeting at the same time as we are tomorrow. That will give us no chance to sit in on that meeting. There are controversial points in the bill, particularly those that relate to health. I am concerned that we will not be able to scrutinise the bill properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 285618,
      "EditedText": "The only thing that we can do at this stage is to flag up areas of concern for the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. We can also make members of that committee aware of the fact that we have not been able to consider the bill in depth and that they will have to do extra work on the medical aspects of the bill. I became aware, reading the Official Report, that some members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee thought that we had been doing the same kind of work on the medical side that they had been doing on the legal aspects of the bill.Ben, would you like to place before us your initial report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 285619,
      "EditedText": "This report was written over the weekend and submitted yesterday lunch time. It has been written without seeing the submissions from Alzheimer Scotland, the Southern General hospital or the British Medical Association that are now sitting on our desks. I would like people to note that those are serious contributors and that their views should be taken into account in addition to the report.Going back to the convener's comments, the short notice that we have had and the speed with which we have had to act do not allow for a fully competent report. The timetable has also been an issue in relation to the previous messes that we have had with matters such as Scottish statutory instruments. I think that this committee should say in the strongest language to the Parliamentary Bureau, or whoever directs the timetabling of those matters, that it must consider that carefully because we are not doing this justice. There are major concerns in nearly all the submissions, and I hate to think that this committee will tick its box, when it should have made a more complete inquiry.The report is on members' desks now. Do you want members to read through it, convener, or will I read through it as we go?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 285621,
      "EditedText": "I have to go to an Equal Opportunities Committee meeting for 10 o'clock. Can I put in my tuppenceworth before I go?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 285623,
      "EditedText": "I have read Ben's report. We should thank him for a thorough report. I think that the main controversies are about section 44(2) and section 47. Ben touches on that in his report, which I read as soon as I got it.I do not agree with Ben, as I do not think that the problem is that the medical people have to appeal rather than the welfare attorneys or guardians. I think that the problem is elsewhere: it is in section 44(2). I have sympathy with those who think that that section should be deleted from the bill altogether. The act must make clear that certain matters are not a decision for either the welfare attorney or the doctor. That is what has made all the headlines about euthanasia and so on. We have been told that that is not part of the bill. That must be made explicit. If it is made clear that those matters are not up for grabs for anyone, I am happy that the decision should remain with the welfare attorney or guardian, rather than with the doctors. That is a fairly significant disagreement with Ben."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 285641,
      "EditedText": "When was the bill lodged?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 285643,
      "EditedText": "So the Executive lodged a bill on 8 October, which allowed at most two months of discussions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 285649,
      "EditedText": "We must say that we need adequate time to do our job properly. We are not here to rubber-stamp the Executive's bills; we are here to scrutinise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 285650,
      "EditedText": "This bill is far too important to rubber-stamp it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 285655,
      "EditedText": "Yes, the bill will fall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 285659,
      "EditedText": "I agree. We have documents before us and it would be difficult to pick out the important points in one hour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 285661,
      "EditedText": "But as you said, the concerns over this bill are medical concerns. My problem is whether, if we highlight areas of concern and submit them to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, we are deemed to have scrutinised the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 285664,
      "EditedText": "We are being asked to say whether we are in favour of the general principles of the bill and to highlight any concerns that we have. Obviously, the full scrutiny of the bill will happen at stage 2. That is the point at which members of this committee can put down amendments. From what I have heard, there is nothing to stop the committee continuing to send a reporter along to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and having other members of the committee sitting in on that committee—as Margaret Ewing is doing today in this committee—and asking questions there. The only thing that may stop us is the timetabling problem.At stage 2, we could decide, as a committee, that we want to hear evidence. What we could not do is make submissions and amendments. However, we could make them as individuals who happen to be members of the committee. In a way, saying that that is what we feel we have to do would circumvent the letter of the law. It would enable members of this committee to take part in the full scrutiny at stage 2.However, as a committee, we could take a more active role by calling the British Medical Association or other organisations from whom we wish to hear, such as those involved with Alzheimer's disease. We could then, as individual members, lodge amendments that are the result of arguments that we have heard in the committee. There is still scope for the committee to scrutinise the bill, but at this stage we are considering its general principles and highlighting our initial concerns. Now is the time for members to highlight everything that they are concerned about. I know that the situation is not satisfactory, but we are working within the constraints that have been placed on us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 285670,
      "EditedText": "We have heard three possibilities—well, members have heard two and I made another one privately to the clerk. One possibility is that we do something about the rest of the agenda. If we discuss Arbuthnott and tomorrow's questioning of the ministers in private this afternoon, that would free up the rest of the meeting. We have to be out of here by 12.30, which gives us two hours—the full meeting—to read through and discuss the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill.The second option is to identify whether we can schedule an extra meeting for later in the week. By necessity, that would probably have to be Friday, which would not be acceptable to many people. However, if we managed to schedule a meeting for Friday and, at short notice, managed to invite some witnesses in, that would probably allow us to make some recommendations before the Justice and Home Affairs Committee meets next Tuesday. The third option is to truncate the ministers' time with us tomorrow. I have two problems with that. First, we have to be realistic about the situation vis-à-vis our on-going relationship with ministers; it is essential that we have a good working relationship with them. We discovered a few weeks ago that an hour with a minister was not an acceptable length of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 285672,
      "EditedText": "Cancel her."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 285675,
      "EditedText": "That would also do away with the need to discuss tomorrow's questioning of the minister. She will understand. The Executive is introducing the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 285677,
      "EditedText": "I almost agree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 285687,
      "EditedText": "Can I take a view from the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 285689,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 285694,
      "EditedText": "I am not unhappy with the written plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 285696,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with the plan not to meet the ministers. Is it realistic to get evidence from the people who are giving evidence to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, while they are here?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285700",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 285700,
      "EditedText": "They will be here at 9.30 am, the same time as us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 285702,
      "EditedText": "The middle. The committee has got a European document first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 285708,
      "EditedText": "It happens."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285712",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
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      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 285712,
      "EditedText": "Would the meeting be quorate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285714",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 285714,
      "EditedText": "As long as there are three of us. We have committee room 2 this afternoon if we want to continue this meeting there."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285717",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
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      "ContributionID": 285717,
      "EditedText": "I have a constituency obligation at 4 o'clock, so I have to leave here in good time for that."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285720",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 285720,
      "EditedText": "When are we going to pick up on item 1? That is my difficulty."
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  {
    "ID": "C285729",
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      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 285731,
      "EditedText": "Members will have read my report. I do not want people to be too concerned about the fact that it mentions euthanasia. I recognise that the bill does not aim to introduce euthanasia, but I thought that it was right to note the fact that it is one of the issues surrounding the bill. We should discuss the ethics of the issue.As I said this morning, I tried to stay within the committee's remit and concerned myself with the health and welfare of incapable adults and with the medical clinicians who might have to treat them. I did not concern myself with the levels of penalty or aspects of liability.I will not read out the report, but I welcome comments. In paragraph 6, I mention the definition of incapable adults. My first concern is the word \"incapable\", as defined by the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984; the definition is repeated in section 76 of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. My concern is that the Millan committee is reviewing the matter; we should consider whether we want to pass that on to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. The goalposts could shift. The concept of learning difficulties almost assumes incapability and we may find that the Millan committee's redefinition—under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984—says that that is no longer true. That would affect who was covered by the new act. We should understand that.It worries me that the definition of learning difficulties is taken in such broad terms as to be included in \"incapable\". There is no recognition of partial-capable or assisted-capable decision making, which other countries strive to recognise. A person might not be able to make a decision on their own, but perhaps they could come to a logical and sound decision if they had help. It would be useful to examine how other countries include that in legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 285733,
      "EditedText": "I have several points that I hoped to get through."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 285736,
      "EditedText": "I would not mind dealing with the definition of \"incapable adult\" and then moving on to the next issue.For the purposes of the bill, an adult is defined as being 16 years old. Other legislation uses different ages to define an adult; we should investigate whether there may be a clash and whether, from a medical point of view, doctors treat 16-year-olds as adults.The Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984—and therefore section 76 of the bill—rules out specific conditions that make someone incapable. For example, if someone has an alcohol problem, it does not mean that they are incapable. However, I suggest that the affliction of a drug addict or an alcoholic could make them confused, even though the condition is temporary. There is no real recognition in the bill of that short-term confusion—a person is either incapable or not. That needs to be clarified and I would be interested to hear Richard's views.The definition of \"incapable adult\" produces an all-or-nothing situation, both in its treatment of decision making and in the assessment of the adult. The committee should discuss that concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 285737,
      "EditedText": "I share Ben's concerns. The issue of partial or diminished capacity is important, particularly in relation to learning disability. ENABLE has given us written evidence that it would prefer the bill to refer to severe learning disability. I am not sure whether that is legally correct; that is a matter for stage 2 consideration.On the general principles, I would like us to be more cautious about rendering people with specific or minor learning disabilities part of the group of incapable adults referred to in the bill. The term is not defined well enough.The issue of temporary incapacity is a problem, of which Ben gave us a good example. If someone arrives at the accident and emergency department with partial or diminished capacity as a result of drinking or an overdose, it may be difficult for them to make decisions that one would regard as appropriate. At that moment, a decision has to be made on whether such a person is definitely incapacitated; a midway zone is not possible. The question of \"partial\" or \"temporary\" in the definition is important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 285750,
      "EditedText": "I have been reminded that our remit is to flag up points of concern. I take it that members have a point of concern about who will have the ultimate decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 285744,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 7—the largest part of my report—deals with safeguards to protect the individual. I looked at the question from a welfare or medical treatment point of view, rather than from a judicial one; I approached it from the patient's point of view and also bore in mind the need to protect carers.The next paragraph mentions the parts of the bill that include\"measures intended to ensure a course of action that best benefits the adult.\"I was worried about some of the loopholes, and the lack of responsibility or duty to live up to that statement. My report continues:\"While there is a requirement in Part 1 section 1 subsection (2) that interventions must benefit the person with incapacity, there is no corresponding requirement that the decision not to intervene must benefit them.\"I would seek advice on whether that is just a petty observation or something that has a knock-on effect—medically—on how people are treated. Perhaps I could ask the British Medical Association about that tomorrow.Duty of care is an issue. Clinicians and doctors have a duty of care. Under the current proposals, the guardian, proxy, or welfare attorney—whoever it is—must satisfy themselves only that they act in reasonable or good faith. No duty of care is placed on them. Their decisions must benefit the patient, but there is no duty to seek informed advice. If, for example, I was the carer—I have no medical background and am totally naive about the issue—there would be no onus on me to seek medical advice. As long as I could prove to the courts that—in my view—I did what I thought was reasonable at the time, I would not be held liable for my decision. There must be many medical conditions of which I do not have enough knowledge to have any idea what the right decision would be.Without any duty or obligation on carers, I fear that there could be a problem with less educated or less fortunate people, people without initiative, or people with another agenda, becoming welfare attorneys or proxies. We must understand that some people may have a financial interest by virtue of the fact that they are the next of kin. A duty of care or some kind of obligation must be inserted into the bill.That brings us to the question of safeguard priorities. In addition to looking after the patient, if carers had that duty of care, they would have to meet the requirement in section 1(4)(a) of the bill to take account of\"the present and past wishes and feelings of the adult\".What takes priority for the Executive: the wishes of the individual who is incapable, or the doctor's duty of care, irrespective of the carer?Alzheimer Scotland sees things the other way round from me. If a doctor disagreed with a carer and said that a patient must be treated, the doctor would have to take the carer or welfare attorney to the Court of Session to overrule their decision. I discussed the issue earlier with Richard Simpson. I was a bit extreme. I would have liked it to be the other way round: the carer would have had to take the doctor to the Court of Session to have his or her decision overruled. There will be instances where patients are in pain only in the short term. Do we want a busy doctor in a Highland hospital to go to the Court of Session to overturn the decision of a carer on whom there is no duty to make an informed choice? Richard Simpson suggested that carer and doctor should agree together in a partnership. Alternatively, there could be a local ethics committee under the health board. Richard will expand on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 285747,
      "EditedText": "I noticed, when I skirted over the BMA submission in our limited lunch break, that it covers the point that Ben has covered. Section 19.3 states:\"Decisions to withhold or withdraw conventional treatment on the basis that it is not providing a benefit to the patient, should be made by the clinician in overall charge, following discussion with the rest of the health care team and where appropriate those close to the patient. Where a clinician's view is seriously challenged and agreement cannot be reached by other means, review by a court would be advisable.\"Will we recommend that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 285753,
      "EditedText": "Three issues are relevant here. One is treatment, where it is a positive intervention. The second is withdrawal of that treatment, so that once you have defined what your positive treatment is, can withdrawal of it be seen as benefiting the patient? Let me illustrate that: if death is imminent, to continue feeding and hydrating a patient at that point may be inappropriate. However, hydration and nutrition should never be withdrawn as a means of achieving death; in other words, it should not be—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 285754,
      "EditedText": "The death of somebody who was not going to die."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 285756,
      "EditedText": "A reality check."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 285758,
      "EditedText": "I have a vague recollection of reading somewhere that the bill will allow doctors to deal with emergencies. Can you shed some light on that, Ben?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 285762,
      "EditedText": "The question must be asked, but I may well have read the bill wrongly. As you say, convener, we are all learning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 285763,
      "EditedText": "I am surprised that you say that, but I do not really know about it. We should flag up that matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 285769,
      "EditedText": "The bill says that treatment continues while the dispute is pursued."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 285771,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy about that? Are there any further comments on this aspect of the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 285772,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what has been said about additional safeguards. Apart from anything else, it is costly and time consuming to go to court."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 285775,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is not the practical but the financial implications. There are all sorts of other implications that are not to do with the primary issue, which is the care of the patient.The other point in section 7 of Ben's report is the issue that doctors are bound by a duty of care, whereas the bill creates the role of welfare attorney, who does not seem to have that same duty of care. Generally speaking, most people will act in a way that is of benefit to the incapacitated individual. However, beyond that point, there is no duty of care imposed upon them and they seem to have no responsibility for their actions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 285783,
      "EditedText": "We must make it explicit in the bill that that is not a choice either for doctors or for guardians. The issue of euthanasia must be removed from the bill. People are saying that it is there by accident or that it has come in through the back door, but if it is dealt with it will not form part of our discussions. No one is allowed to withhold treatment when someone is not about to die; that is not an option for doctors or carers. Once we have removed the issue from the bill, we can deal with the situations that remain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 285786,
      "EditedText": "I would say that the bill does raise the issue of euthanasia. As a carer, I would have to take into account the present and past wishes of the incapable adult. Let us say that I have no medical background and my wife is in a critical condition, having made it clear now and in the past that she wanted to die. I could say, without having to talk to a doctor, that treatment should be withheld. It does not even have to be pointed out to me that I am in contravention of this bill. I could simply say that I knew what my wife wanted, and someone would then have to take me to court to overturn that. My liability would be so limited that all that I would need to say was that I genuinely believed that my wife was fine. That is in the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 285789,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm is absolutely right—a number of individuals and organisations have raised a fundamental issue. It would be proper for us to express our concern about the way in which this subject has been handled and how it is clouding debate on the bill, and it would be proper for us to point out that the wording should be further considered because of where it could lead. We, and other individuals, would then have the opportunity to lodge amendments during the detailed scrutiny stage. At the moment, it is sufficient to say that we are concerned about the wording and its implications.Let us move on. Are there other areas about which we are similarly concerned, and that we need to consider?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 285794,
      "EditedText": "All right. Who has a real constraint on their time? Hugh, Richard and Ben."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 285796,
      "EditedText": "That is a point that I was about to raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 285798,
      "EditedText": "For the sake of the Official Report, can you be specific?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 285799,
      "EditedText": "There is a lot in section 48 of the bill, but given the limited time, I do not want to go into the details. It is sufficient to say that concerns have been raised about research and section 48—for example, would further legitimate research be prevented, and could there be an unforeseen barrier to that research? We should ask that those questions be considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 285804,
      "EditedText": "Do you have anything else to say, Hugh?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 285805,
      "EditedText": "No, that was my main point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 285811,
      "EditedText": "One of the problems that I have is that the submission refers to the document, \"Making the right moves\", but does not mention specific sections of the legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 285813,
      "EditedText": "Although we do not want to talk about euthanasia, we should be aware that many of those who have sent submissions to us are worried about the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 285816,
      "EditedText": "The Justice and Home Affairs Committee will have to question the Executive on that.Most of the points that I wanted to raise have been picked up on; I do not know whether other points are raised in the submissions, some of which we received only this morning. A constant stream of submissions comes in and it is fair that we should deal only with those that we have had overnight.Tomorrow, we will attempt to come up with the key points that we want to raise with the Justice and Home Affairs Committee—some committee members are not here this afternoon, as this meeting was tacked on owing to circumstances this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 285817,
      "EditedText": "I would like to thank Ben Wallace for his work. His report was helpful and he had obviously given some thought to it. One of the benefits of such a report is that it helps to focus the debate, although we might not agree with the detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 285818,
      "EditedText": "I echo that and I recognise that Ben has done a lot in a short time, working with others to put the report together. The subject is complex and I know that all members will take an active interest in stage 2 of the bill. This afternoon's discussion has given some indication of the concerns about the bill. We have not put on record whether we welcome the bill. There has been a lot of discussion about the necessity for the bill in terms of the rights not only of incapable adults, but of carers. I know that people have been waiting for clarification on a number of points—some medical, some financial—that impact on people's lives. It is important that we get it right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 285819,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 14:49."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7734992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 285614,
      "EditedText": "The Health and Community Care Committee is being asked to consider the bill as the secondary committee, the lead committee being the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. That committee has to report by 22 November at the latest so our report has to be given to it before then. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee is hearing evidence tomorrow while we meet.This committee has a problem with the length of time that it has been given to consider the bill. One solution would be for the committee to hear further evidence in advance of stage 2. It would not be possible for the committee to report again, but members would have heard the evidence in preparation for stage 2, when the amendments are considered.Stage 1 allows a discussion of the general principles of the bill as they affect health."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 285628,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Malcolm. We will now have a five-minute break to give committee members the time to read Ben's report. We will come back at 9.55."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 285629,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 285630,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 285631,
      "EditedText": "I hope that everyone has had an opportunity to read Ben Wallace's report. I appreciate that committee members have not had the opportunity to read through the great pile of papers and submissions that have come in from other organisations, in some cases overnight. That is one of the concerns that we raised at the beginning of the meeting. The concerns about the way in which we are being asked to comment on this bill I will take to the next meeting of the conveners committee, which is a joint meeting with the Parliamentary Bureau. Many of the difficulties arise because we are the secondary committee on this bill. Perhaps that will have to be taken into account in future.I will now hand over to Ben to give—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 285632,
      "EditedText": "Before you do that, I wish to say that the contents of this bill are significant. I know that we are the secondary committee. One of the questions that I asked you before was whether we can separate out the remits of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the Health and Community Care Committee, because I do not want to go over the ground that another committee has gone over.There are significant health-related parts of the bill and I am not happy about brushing over items of such significance so quickly with so little notice. What are the implications if we say that we cannot finish our deliberations today and that we want the opportunity to give the bill the scrutiny that it deserves?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 285634,
      "EditedText": "Hugh, before you arrived, others expressed the same concerns. Hugh's question with regard to the implications takes those concerns a little further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 285636,
      "EditedText": "The timetable was set for the committee by the Parliamentary Bureau. If we fail to report by 22 November, we will fail to feed into the deliberations of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. The stage 1 debate for the bill is on 8 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 285637,
      "EditedText": "Having read Ben's report and the submission from the Southern General hospital, I have concerns. We are not doing ourselves any favours if we hurry this matter. I propose that we adjourn until 11 o'clock. I am not prepared to participate in this meeting without having read the information that we have received."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 285638,
      "EditedText": "I second that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 285640,
      "EditedText": "Bear with me. I am trying to find a way out of this.We have other things on our agenda, including the draft report on Arbuthnott and our questioning of the Minister for Health and Community Care, which, as we agreed, we will consider in private for the reasons that we highlighted at the beginning of the meeting. I will find out whether it would be possible for us to do some of that later today without having official reporters present because it will be a private discussion about a draft report. That would free up the rest of this morning's meeting and allow us to adjourn.If it is acceptable to committee members, the clerk will find out if accommodation is available for us so that we can deal with other parts of the agenda later today. That would allow us to adjourn and spend the whole of this morning reading through the papers and discussing the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 285642,
      "EditedText": "As far as I can remember it was lodged on 8 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285644",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 285644,
      "EditedText": "The recess fell after 8 October and the bureau did not meet to set the timetable for consideration of this bill until after then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285645",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 285645,
      "EditedText": "That is why we are in this position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 285648,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It will fall on 8 January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 285651,
      "EditedText": "As Richard pointed out, we are amending an act that was published in 1585, yet we are rushing through our considerations in half a day."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285658",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 285658,
      "EditedText": "Is it in any way possible to delay this discussion? What would be the repercussions if we did so?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 285665,
      "EditedText": "Can I make a suggestion? The Minister for Health and Community Care and the Deputy Minister for Community Care will be with us for three hours tomorrow. We would probably not wish to do this, but if we were to cut their visit to an hour and a half—The Convener indicated disagreement."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285662",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
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      "EditedText": "I also have some concerns about that, because the information that we have been given within the last week is all technical. On its own, it is pretty substantial. We have been presented this morning with some of the issues that we, as parliamentarians, need to address, which will affect the people who will have to implement the legislation. We do not do ourselves any service to try to rush through this within the next hour or hour and a half."
    },
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 285663,
      "EditedText": "My concern is for the people who desperately need this bill."
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  {
    "ID": "C285611",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 16 November 1999",
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:37"
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  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285615",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 285615,
      "EditedText": "Convener, may I speak?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285620",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 285620,
      "EditedText": "Could we take a five-minute break, to allow people to read Ben's report before we comment on it? I have not seen it before now either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
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      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 285624,
      "EditedText": "Gordon Jackson made an eloquent argument at the Justice and Home Affairs Committee for leaving out section 44(2), as it opens up a can of worms.There is a need to be explicit about what the bill is trying to achieve. For example, there is a question-mark over the use of the word benefit vis-à-vis an adult with mental incapacity as it is open to different interpretations. Do you have any other comments, Malcolm?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285625",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
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      "EditedText": "I have made my main points. I think that those two sections of the bill are the two that members will want to consider in terms of amendments."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285626",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 285626,
      "EditedText": "Are you happy with the definition of adult with incapacity as it stands? It is a definition within the (Scotland) Act 1984, with the possibility of its being changed in the future, depending on what the Millan committee reports. Are you happy with that definition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285627",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 285627,
      "EditedText": "That situation is unavoidable because of the time scale. I do not think that it is a fundamental problem."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285633",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 285633,
      "EditedText": "The clerk will answer that question."
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  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285635",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 285635,
      "EditedText": "I have asked those questions privately. I will hand over to the clerk."
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  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 285639,
      "EditedText": "The problem is that we would then only have until 12 o'clock because I will have to leave then, and I assume that other members are in the same position. I agree that we cannot do this bill justice in such little time. There are so many important implications of this bill that we would serve no one if we rush through it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.117267+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 285646,
      "EditedText": "And the financial resolution—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 285647,
      "EditedText": "Which tail-ends it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1821E295P538C285652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Mrs Margaret",
      "ID": 1821,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Moray"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 285652,
      "EditedText": "In response to one of my questions last week, Iain Gray kindly pointed out that the Millan committee will be bringing out a report on the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 early in the new year, although no specific date was given. This committee should propound the argument that the discussion of this bill should wait at least until the Millan committee's interim report because it would be helpful for all of us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 285653,
      "EditedText": "The definition of incapacity could be changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 285654,
      "EditedText": "We are in danger of the bill falling if we do not—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 285656,
      "EditedText": "Even an hour or so is too little time to show respect for those organisations that provided submissions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 285657,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy, no one on this committee will disagree with that point. You are absolutely right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 285660,
      "EditedText": "Having read through the bill, the explanatory background information and all the paperwork that we have been given to date, my feeling, as convener of this committee, is that a joint committee should have been established to scrutinise this bill. The fundamental problem arises from that not having been done. Having listened to part of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee meeting that discussed this bill and having read the transcripts of another, that committee is concerned that the crucial parts of this bill are the medical aspects. That committee feels that while its remit to consider the entire bill is satisfactory, it does not normally focus on health issues.Problems arise also because this is a new process—it is the first time that we have done it—and we are the secondary committee, which has resulted in a problem with timetabling. Every member of this committee wants to do their job properly, but feels that we cannot do justice to the bill and to those adults with incapacity, and to their carers, families and the members of the medical profession who deal with them. I can only echo what members of the committee have said. However, as things stand, we have to feed into the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. That is why I am telling members that even if our contribution is simply to raise concerns, we must raise every single concern that we have, after which we must leave the matter in the hands of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee because of the way in which this process has been set up.That is not a satisfactory arrangement. We will write and express our deep concerns at the way in which this matter has been handled, and try to ensure that it does not happen again. I will raise the matter at the conveners meeting with the Parliamentary Bureau and also with the Presiding Officer, because it calls into question the repute of Parliament if we are not given time to scrutinise legislation, which, after all, is one of our main functions.I support completely what everyone is saying but this may be our only opportunity to deal with this bill so, within the constraints that we face, we must try to take advantage of that. If we do not, we may find that we get to the end of the time that is available to discuss the bill in detail—which is the only opportunity that we will have to do so—only to find that we have missed our opportunity to have our concerns taken on board by the Justice and Home Affairs Committee in its deliberations and taking of evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 285666,
      "EditedText": "—we could donate today to the Arbuthnott report, go away and read the submissions, and ask the people who are giving evidence to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee tomorrow to give their evidence to us afterwards.The reality is that we cannot delay this and that we are not the lead committee—that is the mistake. We cannot do anything about that; we can sit and pontificate all day about how we should have been the lead committee. That is the Parliamentary Bureau's fault. However, we have to report on our objections to the bill's general principles, because on January 8, the bill will fall if it does not get through that procedure. The lead committee does not have to take our input into account and will just carry on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1329013+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 285671,
      "EditedText": "Cancel it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 285674,
      "EditedText": "The bill has a very tight time scale and I have real concern that we are coming up with views that are ill thought out and will affect individuals out there. We can say to the Minister for Health and Community Care, \"Look, we have a difficulty in terms of timing. We want to do the job properly. Can we postpone the meeting?\" I do not think that the minister will have a problem with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 285682,
      "EditedText": "I am inclined to agree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 285683,
      "EditedText": "One of the problems is that the ministers were originally scheduled to come at the beginning of October, but other things took over and the meeting had to be rescheduled. It was initially meant to be a meeting that set the general scene for them and for us, but it has slipped into November. If it continues to slip, we will lose the point of having the meeting. There is a range of possibilities, but we have to devote more time to the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. I would prefer to find a way to do that, in terms of the timing, that we all agree on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285684",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 285684,
      "EditedText": "Are we not generally agreed that there should be a discussion tomorrow for which time should be allocated? The only argument at the moment is whether the ministers should be there at all or whether they should be there for half an hour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285692",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 285692,
      "EditedText": "Any comments about the bill that you have, Irene, you can put through me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 285693,
      "EditedText": "I would rather do justice to what is in front of us. The reputation of the committee and the Parliament depends on the way that we treat this. I would rather have a full three-hour session, focusing on the serious, critical issues in front of us, than tampering and being half-hearted. We did not have a full discussion last time and the terms on which we parted were not good. I would prefer there to be a proper, structured session rather than a half-hearted, quick discussion. I hope that we can develop a partnership with the minister. A forward plan, on paper, is perfectly adequate. Let us sit down and do the business that we are here to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 285695,
      "EditedText": "My views are known."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 285698,
      "EditedText": "The BMA, the Royal College of Nursing and Professor Sheila McLean of the University of Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 285699,
      "EditedText": "What time will they be giving their evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 285701,
      "EditedText": "Are they giving evidence at the beginning—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 285703,
      "EditedText": "I will see whether the clerks can liaise so that we can be there to take that evidence jointly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 285705,
      "EditedText": "We are meant to be in committee room 2 tomorrow.Suggestions are coming up now, and I do not know what the logistics are without talking to our clerk and the Justice and Home Affairs Committee's clerk, but there would seem to be some merit in our being there to listen to the medical evidence. That would also allow us to have a chance to read further submissions overnight. Interruption. I have just been told that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will meet across here tomorrow, so bring your coats.I am happy with the committee's stated view, and we will give the ministers as much notice as possible so that they will not be asked to come to committee tomorrow. I will couch that in terms of us being sorry that we will not get the chance to hear them tomorrow, but we see our pre-eminent duty as finding time to examine the bill. We have had such a short time to discuss it.I ask members to bear with me for a few moments while I discuss some logistical points with the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 285706,
      "EditedText": "I wonder if the Minister for Health and Community Care could be told informally by telephone. It would be a courtesy, and it would help her with her busy schedule.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 285709,
      "EditedText": "We could move now into discussing the draft Arbuthnott report, and leave all our discussion on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill to tomorrow. We should bear in mind that if we go to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, much of our time tomorrow will be taken up listening to other people's evidence. That is important, but it will cut into how much time we have to discuss our concerns and the points that we want to make. One option is to continue to discuss adults with incapacity this morning and to discuss the draft Arbuthnott report as well.Another option—which I have just been told may not be an option—is that, as the Arbuthnott draft report was going to be discussed in private anyway because it is a draft report, we could close the meeting and meet again later today, in committee room 2. I have just been told that no notice has been given of that meeting. Does that mean that we cannot do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 285710,
      "EditedText": "Could we not adjourn the public meeting and do Arbuthnott just now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 285711,
      "EditedText": "We are beginning to get into a right mess. This morning, we complained that we have just received papers and have not read them. We have indicated that we have real concerns about that. If we are to hear evidence on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, we need an opportunity to read the documents before questioning people. We cannot talk about it because we have still not read the papers.This meeting was called, but there is no stipulation about when it must end. It is only stipulated that we must be out of the chamber at 12.30. That does not mean that the committee meeting finishes. These rules are evolving and being changed. There is nothing preventing us running over. I think we have got to do that. I am really concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 285713,
      "EditedText": "The meeting has been called. We are here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 285715,
      "EditedText": "I so move."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 285716,
      "EditedText": "I have another committee meeting, but I will have to let it go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 285718,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that this is all totally unsatisfactory to all committee members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 285723,
      "EditedText": "Can I propose that, this morning, we simply concentrate on the Arbuthnott report review? Let us get one report correct. We have John Forbes here. Let us do it thoroughly and properly. Can we read all our papers? I take Hugh's point, but I do not know from the BMA's information what they consider non-contentious or otherwise. I appreciate the suggestion. Can we just use our time and concentrate on Arbuthnott, and do one thing right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 285727,
      "EditedText": "Having completed this morning's business, I propose to adjourn this meeting until 1.45 pm when we will resume in committee room 2 to continue with item 1 on our agenda. Tomorrow's meeting will convene at 11.15 am. Are we agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 285730,
      "EditedText": "This morning, it was made clear that members wanted more time to talk about the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. Ben Wallace, who was our reporter at the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, will give us his report, after which I would like to hear what committee members think about the general principles of the bill and the key areas of concern. It is essential that we flag up areas of concern at this point so that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee can consider them.Tomorrow, we will attend the Justice and Home Affairs Committee to hear the evidence that it is taking; we will make our final deliberations at a meeting following that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 285734,
      "EditedText": "Rather than hearing everybody's points, which may be similar, perhaps we should deal with one issue at a time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 285735,
      "EditedText": "Ben, would you prefer to get to the end of your report and then take it from there?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 285739,
      "EditedText": "My reading of the bill was not that all people with learning difficulties would be included and were deemed to be incapable. When I read section 76(1), I thought that the existence of intervention orders was a recognition that some people might be incapable in one area or for one decision; I did not think it meant that those people were generally incapable. The bill recognises gradations of incapacity; ambiguity exists, however, so perhaps the bill needs to be more explicit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 285743,
      "EditedText": "Our reporter raised that point. I assume that such points are made on the understanding that at some point, there will be an acknowledgement of this committee's remit and interest, and of the fact that the points were made in the course of Ben's research. I am working on the assumption that the issues highlighted by our reporter will be recognised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 285749,
      "EditedText": "That tackles the issues that Ben raised. It considers care in the widest sense. If someone receives help from the social services, they will have an attached social worker. Ben's problem relates to someone who has sustained head injuries in a car accident, where that type of support would not be on tap and decisions must be made quickly.I am happy that nutrition is included in the bill. That has been a grey area for too long. I am happy with what the BMA is saying. We should perhaps broaden it into the care team rather than specify the health care team. If the patient were a client of ENABLE or any other group, it would automatically be involved in making the decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 285748,
      "EditedText": "We should hear what other members think about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 285751,
      "EditedText": "As I indicated this morning, I take a different view on this. I think that we have to consider this next section with the next one. Where the bill has run into most difficulty in terms of public opposition is that it appears to have reopened the door to euthanasia. That area must be explicitly taken out of the bill. Once euthanasia and related issues have been taken out of the bill, I am more relaxed about the welfare attorney or guardian having the right to make these decisions. People are worried about the welfare attorney or guardian having those rights because they think that will be a back door to euthanasia via the welfare attorney or guardian. If they do not have any rights in that area, I do not have a problem with them having the say over treatment.Ben is being slightly unrealistic when he states in his report that:\"This unrealistic and impractical proposal may lead to patients having to wait in severe pain while the legal procedures are followed.\"I do not think that a guardian will watch someone in agony and not opt for treatment. As long as we remove those areas, where nobody wants to tread, from the bill, I am comfortable with the proposals in this section."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 285752,
      "EditedText": "That takes us into two matters that I would like to flag up.Part 1, section 1 is saying that what is intended is that interventions must benefit the person. The definition of the word benefit—the law case is saying that benefit in that case led to a particular person's death. Although we can take it at one level and say that the whole bill is about benefiting people, do we need to tighten that up?Picking up on what Malcolm has said about section 44(2)(b), in which nutrition and hydration is defined as part of medical treatment, although I am happier to have something written in black and white, this seems to go part of the way down that route but stops short of explicitly stating that this is again a question of benefit and it is not about omission. They have failed to be explicit about omission.Do people want to comment on whether we need section 44(2)(b) to be there at all? Members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee are saying, \"Take it out completely\", because it is causing ambiguity. Do you want that sort of thing to be left in, while the duty of care and benefits and so on is made more specific? I do not want to get into the nitty-gritty of it, but it is a fundamental issue. That ambiguity is probably the reason why all the people who should have been happy that living wills and so on have disappeared from the bill still have concerns about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 285755,
      "EditedText": "The third issue is non-intervention, which is not laid out here at all. It is the medical treatment we are talking about, and under a medical duty of care the doctor is under a general duty—nothing to do with the bill—to undertake such treatment as will be beneficial to his patients. So there is a general duty of care there. That may be enough to say whether there should be intervention or non-intervention.Doctors still have to make a decision about whether to say, \"This patient is beyond saving and therefore we will not intervene\". They do that in the case of major road traffic accidents in which five or six people need treatment. Doctors have to triage the accident victims and say, \"We cannot do anything about that person\". If a doctor thinks that they are beyond care, they do not have a duty to hydrate them and start doing things to them. Those decisions are being made.The issue of balance was mentioned. In practice, most decisions will be made by the health team. It is a matter of whether cases can be divided systematically according to whether there is a long-term perspective. Long-term incapacity, even if it is temporary, will still go on for a length of time. You have to set up arrangements for someone with severe learning disability, because their degree of incapacity requires support over a long period.On the other hand, decisions have to be made there and then for someone with an acute condition, who has to go into an accident and emergency unit. There is no time to wait for certificates to be issued under subsection (3). We will be in real trouble if neurologists and accident and emergency teams are asked to write out certificates and say, \"This patient is incapacitated\", before they start treating them. Where the bill has failed again—and I raised this in relation to other reports that we have received—is that a number of circumstances were not run past it to see whether it survives. I think that that should be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 285757,
      "EditedText": "A reality check. I am not sure whether it fulfils that in terms of the emergency situations to which doctors and health teams are having to respond. I am sorry. That is not all that helpful, except to say that I am concerned about this point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 285761,
      "EditedText": "Do committee members feel that mechanism is not realistic and that we do not want to impose it on emergency teams trying to save lives?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 285766,
      "EditedText": "No, they can say, \"Bang\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 285767,
      "EditedText": "There must be a mechanism for either a second opinion or for the team and the individual to seek mediation at a local level for less serious cases. There is always a third stage: either party can go to court in the event of disagreement. It should be for either party to do that, rather than for one to have the right to do so over the other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 285768,
      "EditedText": "In such circumstances, there cannot be withdrawal of treatment while that right is being exercised, which could complicate matters for the patient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 285770,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is stated enough. It needs to be central to what Richard is talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 285773,
      "EditedText": "Ben's argument is that, as a result of costs and so on, people may not take that recourse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 285774,
      "EditedText": "It is not whether I think that it is practical—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 285777,
      "EditedText": "Having done that, is it correct that that person is not liable for the decision that they have taken?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 285780,
      "EditedText": "I must repeat my concerns on this point. We are all influenced by different examples, which is a problem. Guardians and welfare attorneys are going to have varying degrees of care. I still think that a lot of the examples that are being given to us could be dealt with by making it clear that no one has the right to end an individual's life. We are not talking about that.I spoke to a woman recently who has looked after an individual with severe learning difficulties for nearly 30 years. I regard that person as one of the unsung heroines of society. No one could possibly question her absolute commitment to her daughter's welfare, yet she has had several arguments with doctors about her daughter's treatment. No one is criticising the medical profession, but the reality for her is that she knew what was in her daughter's best interests in certain situations better than a doctor who did not know her daughter, because she had been with her daughter for 30 years.We must be careful about translating the bill into one where the welfare of incapable adults is for the medical profession to decide. I am not hostile to the medical profession, but we are in danger of moving towards that situation. I do not think that we want to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 285781,
      "EditedText": "The position in the bill must be refined. At the moment, I feel that this bill does not take a clear final line on whose responsibility that is. Once a decision has been taken, there does not seem to be a clear line on who is responsible for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 285782,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I agree with that. It is clear that, if the guardian or welfare attorney decides that treatment is not to be initiated or is to be withdrawn, the doctor cannot contravene that wish without going to court. That has merit, in the sense that it is clear. However, I believe that it is as unbalanced as the reverse situation that Malcolm described, in which the doctor could pursue treatment and the welfare attorney would have to go to court to prevent it. Both those situations are unacceptable. It is not just that I prefer a compromise—I believe that these matters must be worked out in the best interests of individuals. Ben Wallace has problems with section 73, which states:\"No liability shall be incurred by a guardian, a continuing attorney, a welfare attorney, a person authorised to act under an intervention order . . . for any breach of any duty of care or fiduciary duty owned to the adult if he has or they have—a) acted reasonably and in good faith and in accordance with the general principles set out in section 1\".That will depend on how the law interprets what is regarded as benefit. If someone strongly believes in euthanasia and insists that their relative should not be treated, the doctor would have to go to court to oppose that. Is that not the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 285785,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should deal with this in two parts. We should deal first with euthanasia and then with the remaining issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 285787,
      "EditedText": "The points about the duty of care were well made, and it would be reasonable to include them in the bill. However, Malcolm Chisholm is right. If we say in general terms that we do not think that this is the way in which to deal with this issue, and that we have concerns that the bill introduces ambiguity and doubt, that will be sufficient at the moment. We should remember that, at this stage, we are commenting on the bill as a whole, rather than undertaking detailed scrutiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 285788,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Because we have raised these concerns, amendments may be lodged and the bill may be changed. All that we can do at the moment is to raise concerns section by section about what is in front of us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 285790,
      "EditedText": "Those were good points and I do not disagree with any of them. The main issue is the role of the attorney who has the right to refuse treatment. The two major cases in England and Scotland have clouded the rest of the bill. We have to address whether water and the life-support machine can be switched off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 285791,
      "EditedText": "The limited liability provision allows someone to get away with it. It does not come up to the standard to match the benefit or the care provided. It is not about euthanasia—it has nothing to do with that. However, if we were to alter the provision, it would be from the limited liability angle. We have discussed paragraph 8 of my report. It is for the committee to decide whether it agrees with it or not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 285792,
      "EditedText": "Having read the bill and the various explanatory background notes, I thought of a few issues that I would like to raise. Other members have already covered a lot of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 285797,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we should try to reach a conclusion this afternoon, but we should indicate our concern. The organisation made its point well; I retain an open mind on whether I agree or disagree with what it said. Nevertheless, it has raised a concern that is worthy of further deliberation.It also raised the issue of the European convention on human rights. Given some of the recent debates on that, the point was well made. At the very least, I would like to put a marker down for the Justice and Home Affairs Committee that some clarification and re-examination are needed, and that, at the next stage, this committee will want to go into the issue in further detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 285800,
      "EditedText": "So the question is whether section 48 will be a barrier to non-therapeutic research and continuing research into chronic conditions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 285801,
      "EditedText": "There are two issues. First, research into causes is precluded by the bill; Alzheimer Scotland and two other witnesses have said that. That is because research into causes is unlikely to be of benefit to the individual—there would be difficulties in making that assumption.Secondly, the bill precludes randomised controlled drug trials, which is the standard method for obtaining evidence about the efficacy of drugs. A randomised control trial is carried out against a placebo—an inactive compound. Although there is evidence in some areas of psychiatry that those patients who get the placebo do better than those who are given no treatment at all, it is difficult to sustain that argument in the context of the bill. Those two measures might damage individuals, particularly if they have Alzheimer's, because further research would benefit other people with Alzheimer's and, if the individual were able to express a wish, they might want to participate. There is a considerable difficulty there.The proxy's role provides protection against inappropriate research being carried out—that is very important. However, the bill totally precludes what could be valuable research in several areas that might ultimately benefit patients."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 285802,
      "EditedText": "Because research has to be linked to the specific benefit to the specific patient?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 285803,
      "EditedText": "Beyond that, the problem is that it may be precluded by the European convention on human rights and biomedicine. We are considering whether to sign up to that at the end of the year. If we sign up to it, we need to ask whether the proposals in the bill or any amendments that we make to them would be precluded by the convention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 285806,
      "EditedText": "I have not had time to read fully the evidence on the Mental Welfare Commission. However, the role of the commission is being changed in several respects—I would like to come back to this subject after I have had a chance to consider the evidence. Two sections deal with the Mental Welfare Commission, but perhaps that question should be sent to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 285807,
      "EditedText": "Some of the duties of the Mental Welfare Commission are being transferred to the health boards. We may want to discuss the whether health boards should be responsible for patients' finances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 285809,
      "EditedText": "A limit is imposed, as well. It does not involve property and shares and so on. A figure of £5,000 is mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1691
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 7555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 285812,
      "EditedText": "That ties in to the question about treatment in an emergency situation. I remember reading about it—we will have the relevant section by tomorrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.7578814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mike Watson): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 241440,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I call to order the eighth meeting of the Finance Committee. Members should ensure that all mobile phones are switched off and that all pagers are switched to vibrate.This morning, I am pleased to welcome representatives of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body: Robert Brown MSP, who is an appointed member of the body; Paul Grice, clerk and chief executive of the Scottish Parliament; and Stewart Gilfillan, director of corporate services in the Parliament.I know that time is limited, gentlemen, and that you have already delayed a meeting of the SPCB this morning to be here, for which we are grateful. I understand that Robert Brown has an opening statement to make."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 241444,
      "EditedText": "Please do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 241450,
      "EditedText": "The bureau has been considering that matter weekly—and is considering it again this afternoon—and has been narrowing down the options. A final decision will probably not be taken this afternoon, as we will have to investigate carefully the available options. However, there might be a final decision within two or three weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 241452,
      "EditedText": "I am well aware of that issue from my attendance at the conveners group and from conversations with colleagues. Although I am very sensitive to those concerns and will respond to them, it is important that I do so across the organisation. It would be easy to throw another couple of clerks at the problem, if you will forgive the expression.I will talk both to conveners and to the official report, clerking and other staff, build up a picture of where the pressure points are and submit a report to the SPCB. The solution might mean a step change in resources and involve a combination of staff and additional money. In the next two or three weeks, when I have built up that picture, I will take the matter to the conveners group. We should remember that all committees are not the same. Although they are all under pressure, some are under the most intense pressure while others are just very busy. Any solution that we come up with needs to be sensitive to that and to understand where the knock-on pressures are. At the moment, the official report is perhaps under the most intense pressure. If putting more clerks into committees means that committees generate more work, that affects the official report and does not solve the problem.I will take the matter to the conveners group and the SPCB and will invite that body to take a decision. In a sense, that comes back to David Davidson's point. The SPCB will need to assess any bid for additional resources against what is available. Although, like Stewart Gilfillan, I am reasonably confident that we can live with our budget this year, we need to consider the knock-on costs for next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 241454,
      "EditedText": "I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 241458,
      "EditedText": "Yes. However, my points about pressures also apply there. Understandably, members have many and varied views on what we might do down in Holyrood and the SPCB has an enormously difficult task in reconciling all those demands. Although, at the moment, the project is on budget, I will not underestimate the difficulties of remaining in that position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 241459,
      "EditedText": "I have spoken to several architects who have said that with such a major project—comparable, for example, with the extension to the National Museum of Scotland—the gap between planning and completion is usually nine years. We are trying to complete the project in a third of that time. Is that wise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 241460,
      "EditedText": "If you will forgive me, I think that that is a question for the politicians. Perhaps Robert would like to comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 241462,
      "EditedText": "As Keith Raffan has asked one of my questions, I will raise some other points. In his opening remarks, Mr Brown said that he and Andrew Welsh had carried out a review of a number of administration functions. There seems to be a pressure point on the administration side. For example, people in the allowances section have told me about a huge turnover in staff and a shortage of staff during the summer. Are some of those issues being addressed? Perhaps Robert can expand on his sub-group's findings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 241464,
      "EditedText": "I take it that there is no thought of capping MSPs' allowances. If that happens, it would limit their ability to carry out their duties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 241468,
      "EditedText": "I understand that there are problems with allowances staff. Are those problems being resolved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 241470,
      "EditedText": "I am referring to the number and retention of staff. I understand that there is a fair churn rate of staff not staying on, so that temporary staff are being used to get through the work load."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 241471,
      "EditedText": "You raise an important general point about behind-the-scenes administrative staff in procurement and in many other departments. We are not using a lot of temporary staff, but we are having problems attracting and retaining staff. That is a problem for the public sector in general, especially in Edinburgh, where the economy is buoyant. We are considering ways of paying special allowances to certain staff, but members will appreciate that there are difficulties involved in paying too many such allowances across the board. That would hike up the entire pay bill, which has implications for the total budget. Allowances, as members will know, is a high-pressure area. Day in, day out, allowances staff are trying to guide members through the maze of the allowances resolution and helping to resolve some difficult local issues. Having spoken to MSPs and to allowances staff, I am encouraged by the fact that, by and large, the process is successful. It usually comes to my notice only at times when the system is not working properly, but we are working hard to recruit in those areas and to provide senior management support. That is particularly true in the allowances department, where Stewart Gilfillan and I personally become involved in many issues. We recognise that, until we have been round the course once or twice, there will be so many novel and difficult issues that we will just have to work them through. However, I sense that we are making progress with allowances. As members are probably aware, an interim consideration of the scheme is currently under way, examining where there are rough edges that may be knocked off to make the operation easier for members and more straightforward for staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 241472,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask a brief follow-up question about staff retention. A month or so ago, a newspaper report claimed that there were real difficulties with security staff being trained and then leaving fairly quickly. The major reason for that, according to the article, was that the pay for security staff was extremely low. Is retention in that department still a problem and, regardless of whether it is, have pay levels been addressed as a result of that report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 241473,
      "EditedText": "We have had quite a high turnover among the security staff. There could be many reasons for that—pay may be one of them. We pay the same rate as the Scottish Executive does, and the whole package is reasonably attractive, with a non-contributory pension and quite long holidays. I recognise the fact that security staff are paid relatively low wages—that is something that we must examine. However, we must bear in mind the pay structure across the whole organisation. It is dangerous to tackle one department in isolation; we must consider the situation in the round.In collaboration with the unions, we are currently negotiating a settlement ahead of the corporate body issuing contracts to all staff. Those negotiations should enable us to discover whether there are any specific measures that could be introduced to solve the problem that has been highlighted. Although there has been quite a turnover, we are just about up to complement on the security staff, and the calibre and commitment of those staff remain extremely high. Whenever we notice high staff turnover, we should examine the situation to find out what is behind it. The expectations of some staff may be a factor. When we set up the Parliament staff, we had a huge response and it is inevitable that to some extent staff numbers fall away in some jobs. Nevertheless, I am confident that, as we work with the unions to offer permanent contracts of employment, our staff turnover will settle down. Already, it seems to have hit a plateau over the past month."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 241476,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that the process is the right one to enable the Parliament and the corporate body to listen to all the views that are coming from the committees, away from the influence of party whips in the Parliament, and to take a dispassionate view about what Scottish democracy requires?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 241479,
      "EditedText": "There is a balance to be struck at all times. Clearly, nobody wants the Parliament to run amok and have unnecessary expenditure all over the place. However, the corporate body is of the view that the Parliament should be properly resourced to do the kind of things that you have mentioned. I shall ask Paul to say a little more about how much has been allocated for those things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 241487,
      "EditedText": "We have run out of time and that is a problem because at least three other members want to put questions. I want to ask a question about the supplementary estimate and the budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 241488,
      "EditedText": "We are happy to accommodate you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Gilfillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 241484,
      "EditedText": "If a committee decides to go out for an informal session, it does not need to take all the electronic equipment or the official reporters. If those two pieces of the jigsaw are not included, substantial savings can be made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 241489,
      "EditedText": "If members can put questions that relate specifically to the estimated budget, we could ask you back for a discussion on general issues another time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 241490,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 241491,
      "EditedText": "I have two points. My first point relates to the terms of the budget and to the figures that you supplied. The capital figures over the three years from 1999 to 2002—you say that most of that cost is due to the Holyrood project and the new building—amount to what has been reported as the total cost of the Holyrood build. Does that mean that the cost of Holyrood is spread over those three years alone and will not spill over into 2002-03?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241495",
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      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 241495,
      "EditedText": "Fair enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 241500,
      "EditedText": "Those costs are not totally fixed. The MSP accommodation costs are capped, but that does not mean that people will spend the full amount. There is an element of uncertainty there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241502",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 241502,
      "EditedText": "The parliamentary office, accommodation and staff costs are not entirely capped—travel and living accommodation costs are not capped—so there is an element of uncertainty about that. Patterns are beginning to emerge as we go along. As you rightly say, general administration is the other element about which there is uncertainty. That is the area relating to support structure and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241503",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 241503,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to get a feel for the extent to which the total budget will vary. Will it vary by £10 million, £20 million or £2 million? The variation seems to be quite small. I know that a variation of £1 million or £2 million is quite large, but in the context of the overall budget, is that roughly the amount by which your figures might be out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241505",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 241505,
      "EditedText": "I want to add a rider to that last point. There are potentially major shocks. I do not want to over-egg the pudding, but for example, if there were simultaneous meetings of the Parliament and of committees, that would have a huge impact. Whereas I can and do ask staff to work longer hours, they cannot work in two places at once. That would have a tremendous impact on the official report and on the clerks. Major decisions that could be taken by the bureau, for perfectly legitimate reasons, would have a significant cost impact. If that sort of decision were taken, I would not be confident that the budget variation would be £2 million—it could be more.Although we have worked hard on the budgets, there are certain decisions outwith the gift of the corporate body and the officials, to which we would have to respond. That would not be a question of an odd extra person here or there. It would require significant enhancements of the teams. If that is what the Parliament decides it wants, we are duty bound to respond. Aside from that, I think that Stewart is right. However, I would not want the committee to leave with an overly confident impression."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241510",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 130
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    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 241510,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to the point that I made earlier. Robert Brown said that the corporate body could not believe that the Executive had a veto on the corporate body's budget. Does the corporate body believe that the Executive has a veto on the formulation of its budget? For example, it is quite conceivable that the demands might increase and that the current costs could increase by £2 million to £4 million on a running basis. Is the corporate body able to say, \"That is what Parliament wants and that is what Parliament will get\"? What are the constraints on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241514",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 241514,
      "EditedText": "We look forward to receiving it."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241516",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 241516,
      "EditedText": "What is the status of that report?"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C241517",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
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      "ContributionID": 241517,
      "EditedText": "It is a series of reports."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241518",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 241518,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is correct."
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  {
    "ID": "C241523",
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      "ContributionID": 241523,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241530",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 241530,
      "EditedText": "Stephen, just before you start, it would be helpful if we could ask Brian some questions about his presentation."
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  {
    "ID": "C241538",
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      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 241538,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure. Could you remind me of the specifics of the chancellor's proposal?"
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  {
    "ID": "C241548",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 241548,
      "EditedText": "The figures that we were given were planned figures. I have no figures for last year's outturn, but it seems that there was an underspend that can be carried forward."
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 241554,
      "EditedText": "My feeling is that it would probably have been taken back and that the accumulation is from the first year of the comprehensive spending review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 241563,
      "EditedText": "In my final year as a councillor, we went through an exercise that had councillors whooping with joy at the ability to postpone debt even further. There were massive movements to push everything into future repayment, which made councils appear to balance their books. However, eventually, money will have to be found in the budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241558",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle (Head of Business Economics, Royal Bank of Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 241558,
      "EditedText": "As Brian mentioned, I will focus on the more detailed level 2 data. I will highlight the key changes those data indicate in the Executive's spending plans. I will compare the end year of 2001-02 with the last full outturn year, which was 1998-99. I have had to take a slightly different approach from the one taken by Brian Ashcroft. I do not have an equivalent set of before figures from \"Serving Scotland's Needs\", so it is difficult to do a before and after comparison. I have also dealt with a different period from the one Brian covered, because I will compare the final year of this spending programme with the last year before the Parliament came into existence.I will address four points. First, I will explain my understanding of the differences between the level 1 and level 2 data. Secondly, I will outline the approach that I have taken to analysing the data. Thirdly, I will consider where the principal changes have occurred—I will say more about what I mean by principal changes later. Finally, I will comment on lessons I think we have learned in the past couple of days about the way this information and the manner in which it is provided may affect the budget process in future.What are the differences between level 1 and level 2 data? An obvious difference is that the level 1 data, which Brian commented on, have 19 separate headings whereas the level 2 data have 70 separate headings. On the face of it, considerably more detail is available in the level 2 data than is the case with level 1 data. However, there remains a considerable degree of aggregation at level 2. Health spending and local government spending together account for 60 per cent of the total. Even within the health total, one line accounts for about £4.5 billion. Therefore, while we have more information than is available at level 1, much more could still be revealed.As we have additional information at level 2, it permits a more detailed analysis of the changes between the major budget headings. It also allows us to undertake some analysis, which I think members were moving towards in their questions to Brian Ashcroft, of the reallocation of spending within the major headings. For example, it allows us to comment on how moneys may be reallocated within the education heading, between student support and further and higher education. Level 2 data do not allow us to undertake analyses within those headings. For example, if we wanted to understand what was happening within further education, it would not be possible to tell from these data how moneys have been allocated within the FE heading. If we are interested in how Scottish Enterprise or Highlands and Islands Enterprise spend their moneys across their programmes, the level 2 data do not allow us to make that assessment. Those are the principal differences between the level 1 and level 2 data. Unlike the level 1 data, which Brian Ashcroft dealt with, the level 2 data that have been provided to us by the Executive are in cash terms only. Whereas Brian could present comparisons in real terms after making adjustments for expected inflation, the level 2 data are not set out in real terms. That makes it very difficult to make any sensible judgments about future patterns of spending under the various headings. To make that comparison possible and more realistic, I have applied the assumed inflation rates in the level 1 data to the level 2 data. I will present level 2 data in real terms, at 1998-99 prices.I have made one other adjustment to make a comparison. There has been a reallocation of funds from current local government spending to the communities budget. Footnote 4 on the table specifies that. For the sake of comparison, I have added the number which is now in the communities budget back on to the local government total. I want to focus on what I have called the big numbers. As Brian demonstrated when talking about the level 1 data, there are cases of very large percentage increases or decreases in a particular aggregate. The seven-figure sums involved are relatively small, so I have mainly disregarded them. I will focus on the biggest changes in percentage terms, but also in absolute terms.Let us examine what I have called winners in absolute terms. I remind members that I am comparing the end-point year with the last year before the Parliament came into existence. The largest single real-terms increase over that period is revenue spending for hospital and community health services, which runs to over £300 million. Over the period as a whole, the total real-terms increase in the budget is about £880 million. That accounts for a very large proportion. The next largest component is general pharmaceutical services—over £150 million. Taken together, those two sub-components of health expenditure account for a considerable proportion of the increase in the budget over the period. I will not go into detail on the other components of change, which are noted in the graph, other than to say that additional expenditure—substantial amounts—is evidently planned for further and higher education and for pre-school education. To return to a point Brian made about the treatment of Scottish Homes debt, there is a reduction, as I will explain in a moment, in Scottish Homes expenditure, but there is a broadly compensating increase in the resources available for the new housing partnerships. Those are the principal increases in absolute terms. If we turn to the principal increases in percentage terms, a slightly different picture emerges, partly because hospital and community health revenue spending runs to more than £3 billion. Even the fairly large cash increase means that it does not feature as one of the largest percentage increases. The largest percentage increases, as you will see, are in social inclusion and new housing partnerships. There are also large increases for a number of education elements.The largest fall in percentage terms is in European regional development structural funds moneys—more than 30 per cent in the period to 2001-02. There are also significant falls in the budgets for environmental protection, Scottish Homes—as I mentioned—and for student support.I will make a few points about some of the implications for the budget process of the availability of the level 2 data. There is no question in my mind that the availability of these data represents significant progress, compared with the level 1 data that were previously made available to us. They allow us to undertake an analysis of whether moneys are being allocated or reallocated in line with priorities. However, if it were possible, a strong case could be made for the availability of level 3 data. First to enable you and others to understand where trade-offs could be made, for example within the further education or enterprise budgets. It would also enable you to understand—to return to a question that was raised earlier—whether expenditure is being tailored towards the Executive's priorities; for example whether, within the enterprise budget, resources are being targeted in accordance with priorities and are being reallocated where appropriate.Finally, this is not intended as a plea in mitigation or as bleating, and I realise that this is year one, but it would help us and the committee if in future years there was an opportunity for a slightly more leisurely perusal and analysis of the numbers."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241559",
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    },
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      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
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      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 241559,
      "EditedText": "Thank you Stephen."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 130
    },
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 241560,
      "EditedText": "Both witnesses have said that there has been a fair bit of debt postponement. How sustainable is that? As a result of it, what outcomes might the committee be required to review in trying to handle that situation in future years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
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      "ID": 130
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 241565,
      "EditedText": "Professor Ashcroft told us earlier how he thought we should interpret the underspend of previous years. What happened to the underspend in previous years? What is happening to it now? We seem to be benefiting from having it all to ourselves, whereas in the past it presumably went back to the Treasury. Is that your interpretation of where the extra money is coming from, Stephen?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241568",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 130
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 241568,
      "EditedText": "In the past, have you been able to see underspend in the outturn figures and work out where the money went?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C241569",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 241569,
      "EditedText": "I have not done that analysis. We could probably do it, but it would take a bit of time. The outturn figures are published. We should get them now, rather than having to wait."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C241574",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 241574,
      "EditedText": "The answer is that I do not know. It is not possible to tell from the level 2 data whether the increase in social inclusion spend is intended to substitute for the reduction in ERDF. One cannot draw that conclusion. All that can be observed is that one has risen and the other has fallen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241576",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 241576,
      "EditedText": "Yes, because the CSR sets the agenda for that spending—in total."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241577",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 241577,
      "EditedText": "This financial statement has been presented to us as a combination of plans and outturn for one financial year, which skews the process."
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  {
    "ID": "C241580",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
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      "ContributionID": 241580,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241583",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 241583,
      "EditedText": "Does that come under the heading of annually managed expenditure, or is it just a reserved budget?"
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  {
    "ID": "C241584",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
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      "EditedText": "To be honest, I am not sure. I would have to look into it."
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 241586,
      "EditedText": "It is important to disaggregate that kind of expenditure, in order to see what is happening and to identify what share we are getting. Cambridge got a huge amount—£70 million—for its tie-up with Massachusetts Institute of Technology last week. What is Scotland getting? I will move quickly on to Stephen's point about general pharmaceutical services—is that the generic drugs budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 241587,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, yes. However, it is difficult because, while I told members what is on the spreadsheet, there is no disaggregation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 241589,
      "EditedText": "That comes back to the point I made at the outset about the figures that we received being set out in cash terms. The simplifying assumption that I made was that inflation would be identical across all budget headings for the next three years. That is a hugely simplistic assumption. In some components of the budget, such as pharmaceuticals, inflation may be much higher and in others it will be less. One of the things that the committee should track—I will not pretend that it is easy—is real trends in the level 2 headings and below."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 241598,
      "EditedText": "That is because you are not comparing apples with apples."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C241602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 241602,
      "EditedText": "I want to develop the theme of comparing like with like. Stephen, do you have any difficulties reconciling the level 2 headings that are provided in your paper with what is in \"Serving Scotland's Needs\"? It appears that some pre-school education money may have gone into schools. Has there been some redefining of headings?Furthermore, why is there nothing beside the heading of social work? Where do those figures appear?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 241603,
      "EditedText": "I have had a very quick look at \"Serving Scotland's Needs\" and I have tried to line the level 2 data up with it. In places, there appear to be inconsistencies, or at least discrepancies, that need to be explained. I do not know the reasons for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 241606,
      "EditedText": "As I said, my presentation covered a slightly different time from Brian's. I went back a year further than he did. I have also converted my figures to real terms. Over the period 1998-99 through to 2001-02, the justice level 1 line increases by £29 million in real terms. The major changes within that are a reduction in legal aid of £11 million, an increase of £14 million in miscellaneous, which includes such things as civil defence, and an increase of £17 million in prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 241608,
      "EditedText": "There is a big jump between 1998-99 and 1999-2000, which accounts for the discrepancy between our analyses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 241612,
      "EditedText": "There is a transfer from local government current spending next year and the year after of £57.6 million in cash terms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 241615,
      "EditedText": "When the Minister for Finance appeared before the committee, I asked him a question about NHS trusts that neither he nor his officials could answer. He agreed to come back. If the minister is working with those problems—and, as we have heard, we are working with even more problems—how can we ensure that we have on-going support for some sort of management accounting audit process that will enable us to be kept on track? Can we bring in outside advice to keep us looking in the right directions and under the right stones? We are in a learning process anyway, but the Minister for Finance and his department cannot give us the information that we need because it seems to come from other departments. There seems to be a lack of flow of information through Government, let alone down to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 241622,
      "EditedText": "I would appreciate the views of Stephen Boyle and Brian Ashcroft on the difficulty involved in tracking the transfer of burdens and responsibilities between different parts of Government. We have touched on that in relation to local government and social inclusion. I suspect that local authorities are increasingly assuming burdens for aspects of service provision, but it is difficult to track from where the resources, if any, have come to pay for that. What is your impression of the availability of the information that would enable the committee to strip down that £5.5 billion line in the local authorities budget to establish how that budget was accommodating the additional burdens local authorities are having to bear as a result of legislation that we or others may have passed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 241626,
      "EditedText": "Let us take the example of housing. If we were to decide to cut this spreadsheet differently—to cut it in terms of the total amount that is spent on housing in Scotland—it would be impossible on the information that is currently available to get that figure swiftly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 241628,
      "EditedText": "The amount spent in local authority support for housing, local authority grants to housing associations and so on. It would be not be at all easy to amass a figure for the total amount spent on housing in Scotland by the various agencies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 241635,
      "EditedText": "If we are going to investigate how effective local government has been and the extra pressures to which it has been subjected, we must examine the best-value programme as well. We need to get back some of the figures and reports on that, so that we can compare performances across the different areas of local government. We cannot say that the pressures are unsustainable unless we know how effective the delivery of service at local level has been. This committee should take some ownership of that process, because we exist to ensure that every pound of the Scottish budget is spent effectively. Local government spending accounts for a third of our budget and we need to spend some time scrutinising it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 241637,
      "EditedText": "There is only so much that we can do. We are getting down to health board level. I have spoken to two health boards in the past 10 days and they have told me that they are down to the bone in terms of efficiency savings. They are now having to turn their attention from non-clinical matters to clinical matters, which worries me because it means rationing. However, we cannot start taking evidence from individual health boards—the Health and Community Care Committee would have to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 241645,
      "EditedText": "In fairness, the Minister for Finance has made it clear in previous meetings that he is prepared to produce figures that can be more widely understood. We have to make the most of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 241647,
      "EditedText": "We have covered quite a few specific points. Stephen Boyle and Brian Ashcroft will put together a report that the committee will see. We will try to feed that report's points into the way in which the committee operates. Furthermore, we will have to ensure that the Minister for Finance receives the suggestions about the form in which information should be presented.Unless there are any other comments, I suggest that we draw things to a conclusion. I thank Stephen and Brian for their time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 241651,
      "EditedText": "Whether such an adviser would be permanent is a matter for consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 241652,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should have a permanent adviser, but we can discuss that in committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 241655,
      "EditedText": "The financial issues advisory group is clear about the involvement of subject committees at stage 1 of legislation. We will need certain information in a specific form from those committees. Perhaps we should decide what form that information should take and suggest—humbly—that other committees follow our recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 241658,
      "EditedText": "Right. I thank Brian Ashcroft and Stephen Boyle for joining us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 241441,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. The SPCB is very glad of the opportunity to give evidence to the Finance Committee. It might be helpful if I start by reminding the committee of the constitution and role of the SPCB, which, unlike most parliamentary committees, is a creature of primary statute.The SPCB consists of five members, four of whom have been elected by the Parliament under the chairmanship of the fifth member, the Presiding Officer. Although the four elected members are from the four main parties in the chamber, their job is not to represent those parties. The SPCB is the legal entity that represents the Parliament as a whole; it owns property, employs staff and can sue or be sued on behalf of the Parliament. Accordingly, SPCB members act as trustees of the Parliament and are responsible to it.In short, the SPCB has the sole responsibility for ensuring that Parliament has the property, the staff and the services that it needs, subject only to the Parliament's ability to give special or general directions to the SPCB in the exercise of the body's functions.The Finance Committee's remit is to consider and report on proposals for public expenditure, including spending by the SPCB. On that basis, the SPCB has agreed to make available to the committee and the Executive a provisional expenditure plan a month in advance of stage 1 of the budget process, and more detailed expenditure proposals a month in advance of stage 2. The body has also agreed that SPCB members and relevant staff should give evidence—I have drawn the short straw today.I understand that those arrangements will be set out in a formal agreement between the SPCB and the committee. The SPCB takes the view that the Finance Committee's consideration of the budget would most usefully be centred on strategic issues and the main areas of expenditure, rather than on the smaller details, which are mainly matters for the SPCB itself.Although the officials will deal with the detailed aspects of the figures, I will make a few comments to set those figures in context. First, the SPCB budget, even including Holyrood, forms a tiny part of the whole Scottish block—somewhere around half a per cent.Secondly, as Sir David Steel made clear in October when he was explaining the budget figures, it is widely acknowledged that the original provision set by the UK Government in March 1998 was pretty much a guesstimate. At that point, there was not much to go on. Nothing remotely akin to the Scottish Parliament had previously been set up and no one knew how it would work or what it would cost to run. The SPCB believes that Scotland requires a Parliament that is properly resourced with services, property and staff, albeit that that is provided with due regard to economy.Before the request for a more realistic provision went to the Parliament in October, a small sub-group, consisting of Andrew Welsh MSP and me, met officials to go through the figures in some detail; we then reported back to the SPCB. As a result, a number of areas such as travel arrangements and stationery requirements are being re-examined with a view to making efficiency savings. That should allow the SPCB scope for manoeuvre in carrying out its functions as required.That is all I want to say by way of introduction, convener. Paul Grice will say a few words about the appropriate budgeting and monitoring arrangements and Stewart Gilfillan will deal with more detailed questions about the finances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 241442,
      "EditedText": "Paul, I understand that you will speak about the supplementary estimate and next year's budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 241445,
      "EditedText": "Members will know that the most immediate issue was the supplementary estimate for the current year. As Robert Brown said, that figure was set about 18 months ago, before the consultative steering group report and before the Scotland Act 1998 completed its parliamentary passage.One of the main assumptions underlying that estimate was that the Parliament would not actually get into its stride until about the autumn of its first year—in other words, about now. As a result, it was very much a part-year budget. However, to everyone's pleasant surprise, the Parliament hit the ground running and was operating at full-tilt before the summer. One of the reasons why expenditure is higher in the current year is because the Parliament has done close to a full year's work.Expenditure is also higher because a number of other assumptions did not hold true. The estimate did not take account of the CSG's recommendations about the structure of committees. Bearing both that and the exercise undertaken by Robert Brown and Andrew Welsh in mind, the SPCB bid for a supplementary estimate of just more than £5 million for the current year, which seems right in the circumstances.Next year's provision was set out by the then Scottish Office and was more accurate for a full year. We have rolled forward the current year's estimates and also taken into account any exceptional items that we have identified, which gives us our budget of £40.4 million for 2000-01.At the moment, we are living in an uncertain world. Although I believe that the Parliament is working effectively, we are still feeling our way, as committee members will acknowledge. There are still tremendous pressures across the whole organisation—on the committees, the official report, facilities management and even the Holyrood building. The problem is not just the cost of the building; the staff resource of getting it designed and specified properly is creating enormous pressure.We are, rightly, the servants of the rest of the Parliament. If, for example, the Parliament decided to extend its hours or to allow the Parliament and committees to meet simultaneously, that would have significant resource implications to which the SPCB and I—as senior official—would have to respond. In such circumstances, budgeting is not a science. However, we apply it with rigour and seek the best economy that we can.I will leave my comments there. We would much prefer to answer the committee's questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 241446,
      "EditedText": "Our thanks to Paul Grice and Robert Brown. In light of your remarks, we appreciate that the budget was necessary for the Parliament's first full year in operation and we are aware of the stresses and strains at the moment. I echo your view that, as we complete our first six months, things are working reasonably smoothly.Committee members will now ask questions. We did not vote on the supplementary estimates last week because we knew that you were coming to see us today and I invite questions either on that issue or on general SPCB issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 241447,
      "EditedText": "First, I congratulate Paul Grice and his staff on struggling through in the face of adversity. We all appreciate that the Parliament's early start has caused difficulties.When the Minister for Finance was here a few weeks ago, he talked about an additional supplementary in the spring. Will the SPCB be seeking something from that? Furthermore, will there be any difficulties with the potential move-out during the Church of Scotland general assembly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 241449,
      "EditedText": "I want to follow on from David Davidson's second point, although it was not the question that I was going to ask. When do you expect a decision to be made on whether we will be here, at the Royal High School of Edinburgh or somewhere else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 241455,
      "EditedText": "To what extent is the Holyrood building over budget at the moment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 241457,
      "EditedText": "So it is both on schedule and on budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 241465,
      "EditedText": "Some allowances are capped, of course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241467",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 241467,
      "EditedText": "It is recognised that that is not possible. Nevertheless, there may be costs involved in occasional events in London, and the corporate body must take a view on the appropriateness of meeting such costs. We are trying to develop policy to enable us to deal with such demands in a reasonable and predictable fashion that will take account of budgetary implications. However, we do not intend to cap any allowances budgets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 241474,
      "EditedText": "I return to the point that Robert Brown made about the fact that the proposed budget from the corporate body will come to the Finance Committee a month before stage 1. That is a welcome contribution to our debate. However, I am concerned about how we resolve the amounts in the budget for the Parliament. We have a fixed sum of money, from which the costs of the Parliament must be met, and I am concerned that we do not have the right mechanisms in place to give the Parliament what it wants. It would be easy for the Executive to apply pressure on the parliamentary budget to guarantee that it is contained within a certain limit. The paper that you have circulated shows costs for the current year, for the next financial year and for the year after that. My interpretation of the figures is that you are assuming that we will reach our optimum level of operation in the next financial year and that that will then roll forward. I am concerned about that as a working assumption. I can understand why you have arrived at it, but I think that the committees will be determined to contribute arguments of substance to the formulation of policy within the Parliament. My experience so far leads me to believe that that function will undoubtedly be constrained by the resources that are available to the Scottish Parliament information centre, which is doing remarkably well given the limited resources at its disposal and the many calls on its time. There ought to be a true and effective balance between the committee structure of the Parliament and its ability to compete in the debate with the Executive on the formulation of policy, given the resources that the Executive has at its disposal. However, I am concerned that the equipment and the process do not exist to enable Parliament to demand the resources that it requires."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 241475,
      "EditedText": "As I said, the corporate body has taken a fairly robust view on that. We formed an efficiency savings group to discover whether efficiencies could be made. The corporate body was determined that the purpose of that investigation was not to make cuts, but to find out how the Parliament's requirements could be met more effectively. Officials have advised us that the budget figures are robust and will stand up to those requirements. If the Parliament requires additional input, because of more committee meetings outside Edinburgh, for example, those things must be paid for from the budget. There is already some provision for that but, if there are significant increases in demand, we must look at the figures again. At the moment, given the anticipated follow-through next year, the present view is that a supplementary estimate will probably not be required, but we reserve the right to come back to Parliament if there are changes in the light of committee experience. As Paul Grice said, the point that Keith Raffan made about additional support for committees is being taken on board. A report is coming back to the corporate body shortly on that matter and the committee of conveners will have an input into it. A decision will then be made on whether additional resources are required. The only other thing that I want to point out is that the Parliament has been working even at semi-full stretch only since the end of August, when we resumed after the summer recess. Although we feel that the figures are firming up as we gain experience, there will still be an element of uncertainty about them until we have had the experience of a full year's running."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 241477,
      "EditedText": "The setting up of the committee of conveners is a further leg in the process to represent the committees' requirements. That is a useful development that will allow the corporate body to have an input into discussions of what the committee conveners require. It will allow a more clear-cut accounting of the costs and a clearer view of how they can be accommodated and whether new resources are required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 241478,
      "EditedText": "When the Parliament was set up, a number of commitments were made to the Scottish people. One of those was that committees and parliamentarians would engage with communities outwith Edinburgh. What resources are there in the budget to allow that to happen? Given some of the media reports on issues such as the cost of the Parliament, does the corporate body feel constrained from making decisions that are in the best interests of the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 241497,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there has been any constraint on that. There has been no formal contact between the SPCB and the Executive on that matter. Obviously, there have been discussions between officials at various levels and Sir David Steel has had discussions with the Executive. Those discussions relate to the approach to the matter, rather than the detail. As far as I am aware—Paul might confirm this—no constraint has been imposed on the SPCB's budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 241498,
      "EditedText": "There is a danger of our straying into your territory. It is not for the Executive to dictate to the Parliament its level of resources. We well understand that we are all operating from a finite pool; every pound that we take, it cannot have and vice versa. One reason why the corporate body was particularly keen to come and talk to the Finance Committee is that, subject to your views, this is the proper dialogue—the corporate body, the committee and ultimately the Parliament. However, we must have due regard for programmes across Scotland.I do not think that there is any sense in which the corporate body accepts that the Executive has any sort of veto over SPCB resources. Perhaps that answers John Swinney's point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 241499,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate what are you saying about the fact that the original figure was very much a guesstimate, as Robert called it, and that you are working in unknown territory. I want to work out the range of that estimate. I assume that the capital is fairly predictable for all three years and that income will not change that much. Therefore, most of your guessing is on the current costs. According to the second table, staff pay, MSP accommodation and staff costs, and MSP pay are fixed, predictable costs. Am I wrong to assume that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 241501,
      "EditedText": "What I mean is that those costs cannot rise, although they could fall. I am trying to get an idea of the amount by which the figures might vary. We are narrowing it down to the general administration costs and a couple of other areas. That is a budget block of roughly £10 million to £15 million, and so the budget might vary by a couple of million either way. Am I right in that assumption?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 241506,
      "EditedText": "To return to the move next May, can you tell us the time scale and the likely range of the cost? I do not want to pursue the matter too far, because I am on the bureau, but can you give us an idea of the range?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 241507,
      "EditedText": "It will probably take three weeks. It partly depends on the contract that we make with the company that dismantles the equipment in the Assembly Hall. The faster we want the company to do it, the more it is likely to charge us—there is a certain trade-off. I think that we are talking about a few hundred thousand pounds, rather than millions.We will ask the bureau to take many decisions about the level of service—broadcasting or official report and so on—which would have a significant impact on the cost. We could keep it relatively modest, but the judgment might be that if we are going outside Edinburgh, we should operate a similar service to the one that we have here. It may be that people feel that they can survive on the road with limited resources. There are one or two critical decisions that the bureau will be invited to make, which will have a significant impact on costs. I am sorry that I cannot be more precise. In a couple of weeks we might have clearer idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 241508,
      "EditedText": "What about—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 241509,
      "EditedText": "Sorry Keith, but I must cap that contribution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 241511,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there are constraints of that sort on the corporate body. Ultimately, the corporate body is responsible to Parliament for the exercise of its functions. The Parliament can require the corporate body to spend £5 million extra to do certain things. Backed by—if I may say so—the robust view of the Finance Committee, which is normally expected to be on the cheeseparing end of the scale, the corporate body takes the view that the Parliament's function should be properly supported. That is how we approach business, with, at the same time, a due regard for economy and efficiency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 241513,
      "EditedText": "That is currently being prepared."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 241519,
      "EditedText": "May I write to the convener with a summary of the conclusions? The efficiency report is not a single document—it is an on-going process that examines all sorts of areas. If the committee would find it helpful, I am sure that we could pull together a summary of conclusions, to give you an idea of the areas that the corporate body is examining and where it thinks economies might be made. Would that be helpful? As I said, it is not a report as such—it is an on-going process of challenge and scrutiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 241524,
      "EditedText": "On behalf of members, I welcome again to the committee Professor Brian Ashcroft and Stephen Boyle, who made important contributions to our briefing session in August. It is nice to see you again and I thank you for making time to see us. Both of you are going to make presentations, which I hope will enable the committee to ask more informed questions of the Minister for Finance and his civil servants. I hand over to Professor Ashcroft, who is going to start."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Brian Ashcroft (Director, Fraser of Allander Institute): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 241525,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We greatly appreciate the opportunity to give evidence to the committee. I say that on Stephen Boyle's behalf as well as my own. Members will appreciate that we have not had much time to put the presentation together, as our thoughts are still evolving. We hope to write an article to appear in our \"Quarterly Economic Commentary\" in December, which will give a fuller analysis of the planned changes. Today, we will try to give a flavour of them.Stephen and I have decided to organise our evidence as follows. I will give my view of the level 1 data. Stephen will then examine the details of the level 2 data. A handout including graphs and my speaking notes will be circulated to members before the end of the meeting. Figure 1 shows the budget baseline changes for the period 1999-2000 to 2001-02. The graph compares the situation before and after the announcement of expenditure changes in October. The figures are adjusted for inflation, so they reflect real spending. As far as I can detect, the figures after the announcement are somewhat higher than the figures before due to what the Scottish Executive calls \"flexibility and transfers\". The graph refers to planned expenditure. Therefore, as one would expect, planned expenditure before and after the announcement track each other from 1994-95 to 1998-99, but thereafter diverge. Specifically, the higher figures after the announcement appear to be due to the carrying forward of underspent moneys into the planning period 1999-2000 to 2001-02. The new total for 1999-2000 is £309 million greater at constant prices than under previous plans. In his speech on 6 October, the Minister for Finance mentioned the transfer of working capital surpluses from national health service trusts to current expenditure. I am not certain about all the aspects of that and I was unable to get clarification from the Scottish Executive finance department yesterday, but I will pursue that point. For 2000-01, the figures are almost identical to those under the previous plan. There is therefore little change overall, but some change this year. I move now to figure 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 241534,
      "EditedText": "It seemed to me that everyone else is tending to move away from cash subsidisation to investment—to softer forms of assistance to promote competitiveness and to stimulate innovation, where Scotland has a real problem.At that time, the Scottish Office was spending about £10 million a year on promoting innovation. That has been cut to about £5 million. On the level 2 figures it is hard to identify what the spending on innovation is because it is not disaggregated enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 241536,
      "EditedText": "I am not clear about how it affects us. It will affect us only in terms of any increased spending that might feed through."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 241529,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I will complete the presentation and take questions afterwards. Figure 2 examines the change in real level 1 planned expenditure for the period 1998-99 to 2001-02, comparing the plans before the minister's announcement, which were largely as outlined in the final departmental Scottish Office report, \"Serving Scotland's Needs\", published in March this year, with the new plans announced by the minister on 6 October. A positive number, therefore, indicates that, under the new plans, spending on programmes will increase by more or will decrease by less during the period than was originally outlined in \"Serving Scotland's Needs\".Against that background, it can be seen that the total budget is almost static, as one would expect. There is a small increase of £13 million at constant prices. At programme level, the major increases in planned level 1 expenditure are in spending on children and central Government education, which is up £28 million in real terms; transport and the environment, up £23 million in real terms; enterprise and lifelong learning, up £16 million in real terms and outlays on the Scottish Parliament, which are up £15 million. The major decreases are in expenditure on communities programmes, down £35 million in real terms—I will come back to that—and in the unallocated capital modernisation fund, down £26 million in real terms. However, all is not as it seems. Although the graph shows a fall in the communities budget in real terms of £35 million compared with previous plans, the decrease may only appear to be such. In fact, as the minister outlined in his speech on 6 October, the Executive has decided to forgo making early repayments of Scottish Homes debt. That will lower current outlays, but will not lower current expenditure on housing under the programme. The Executive's decision to reduce debt repayments will allow money to be reallocated to spending on housing. In a sense, therefore, the decline in the communities budget hides an increase in expenditure over the planning period. More money will have to be found in future, however, to repay the debt, or future spending on housing will be lower. On 6 October, the minister noted also that the freeing up of surplus working capital by NHS trusts would reduce the published figures for spending on housing, but not the investment in housing. I am not clear why that should be the case. I am trying to understand. The overall picture, therefore, is that there is not a great deal of change, but that money is being reallocated under the new plans to children and central Government education, transport and the environment and enterprise and lifelong learning. Figure 3 does not compare planned expenditure before and after the announcement, but outlines the absolute change in real planned expenditure. The figure shows that the total budget is projected to rise by £380 million in real terms in the period 1999 to 2001 to 2001-02. Within that budget, the programme that will enjoy the greatest increase in spending is health, where expenditure is up £209 million in real terms. Expenditure on rural affairs will increase by £56 million, on children and central Government education by £54 million, on communities by £39 million in real terms and on enterprise and lifelong learning by £33 million.The programmes that experience a real fall in their budgets in the period 1999 to 2001 to 2001-02 are justice, with a fall of £51 million, Scottish Executive administration, where there is a drop of £20 million, EU structural funds, down £12 million, and transport and the environment, down £11 million. Another way of looking at the changes is to express them as a percentage of the base figure spent per programme. A lot of money is already being spent on the health service. We can see from figure 4 the percentage change in spending by programme over the period 1999-2000 and 2001-02, at 1998-99 prices.The figures show a couple of anomalies. Forestry enjoys the biggest increase—67 per cent over the two-year period. However, that, in part, reflects its transfer to the Scottish Parliament. In addition, Scottish Executive associated departments have an increase of 64 per cent. Looking at the mainstream programmes, we can see that the children and central Government education programme experiences a real increase over the period of 17 per cent, rural affairs increases by 11 per cent and capital expenditure for local authorities increases by 8 per cent. Only two programmes have a significant decrease—spending on the Crown Office decreases by 13 per cent and Scottish Executive administration falls by 12 per cent. I will close by examining the importance of the planned changes to the overall budget. We know that the programmes vary significantly in the scale of expenditure, so that health, which is one of the major programmes, has a significant expenditure. Figure 5 identifies the share of the total budget change accounted for by the planned changes in each programme. It can be seen clearly from figure 5 that the health budget enjoys by far and away the greatest share of the increased budget. The budget increases by £390 million between 1999 and 2001-02 and the health service enjoys a large share—almost half—of that increase. Fifteen per cent of the increase goes to rural affairs, 14 per cent goes to the children and central Government education programme, 10 per cent goes to communities and 9 per cent of the overall budget change goes to enterprise and lifelong learning. The fall in real expenditure on justice is about 13 per cent and the Scottish Executive administration decrease represents about 5 per cent of the total budget change. The graphs are an analysis of the bald figures of level 1 expenditures, comparing before and after plans and comparing the new plans—the change from this year to 2001-02. Stephen Boyle will speak about the level 2 expenditure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 241531,
      "EditedText": "In your article in the Fraser of Allander \"Quarterly Economic Commentary\" in September, you made a point about how the Government was not in keeping with its priorities in terms of the expenditures on industry, enterprise and training. You said:\"It is difficult to resist the conclusion that the industry, enterprise and training budget has had to bear a large part of the burden of the set-up costs of the Scottish Parliament.\" How would you revise your comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 241533,
      "EditedText": "However, you went on to make the point that it was the type of spending in that area that was not in keeping with the Government's priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 241537,
      "EditedText": "How might that happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 241539,
      "EditedText": "He made various announcements that glamorously described ways of encouraging entrepreneurship."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 241541,
      "EditedText": "Figure 1 illustrates the before and after situations and clearly shows an expenditure bulge in 1999-2000. The Administration has given commitments to additional real expenditure in certain policy areas, particularly in relation to education. If I understand this graph correctly, you are saying that such investment would be possible in 1999-2000, because of the expenditure bulge, but might not be possible in subsequent years, unless money is taken from other budget headings."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 241543,
      "EditedText": "So we are not comparing apples with apples, but plans with outcome."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C241544",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 241544,
      "EditedText": "We are comparing plans, which is a problem."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241545",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 241545,
      "EditedText": "It appears to me that the minister is using outturn to inform his 1999-2000 figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 241546,
      "EditedText": "That is true, and we do not have the outturn figures before us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 241550,
      "EditedText": "I am not certain, but I think the Treasury rules were that the underspend could be claimed back. It was not carried forward within the Scottish Office budget—there was a new playing field next year. Given the constitutional arrangements now, the Scottish Parliament can transfer between heads and transfer between time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 241551,
      "EditedText": "I am sure the Minister for Finance said that this was an accumulation of underspend over the previous two or three years, certainly on the health service side."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 241552,
      "EditedText": "In his speech on 6 October, the minister said:\"The new arrangements for end-year flexibility, introduced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, have enabled us to carry forward significantly more money from last year to this and subsequent years.\"—Official Report, 6 October 1999; Vol 2, c 1030.That is clearly a new arrangement. It appears that it is a consequence of the Scottish Parliament. I am not sure that those changes apply in England."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 241557,
      "EditedText": "As there are no more questions, Stephen Boyle can now make his presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 241562,
      "EditedText": "All I will say is that in his speech on 6 October, the minister said that previously the Scottish Office had planned to repay the Scottish Homes debt earlier than the original agreements had laid out, but that the Executive is reverting to the original repayment agreements. The sum that was set aside for early repayment, and which therefore was released for other spending, was £59 million. That was clearly simply a reallocation of funds across time: you will need to find that money soon.In the scheme of things, that amount of money is not great—the budget is £16 billion and we are talking about fairly small amounts—but it is something of a chimera in that it gives you extra spend now but it must be paid for later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 241564,
      "EditedText": "That is right. I do not know what the terms of the contract are, but presumably it will not be a fixed-rate contract. If interest rates rise, therefore, the real debt paid will probably be greater. Because of that, and because the debt will run over a longer period, there will probably be less to spend in the end. Also, the net interest payments would presumably be less if the debt was repaid more quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 241566,
      "EditedText": "My interpretation is that the ability to carry over underspend is not a function of the existence of the Parliament, but of the comprehensive spending review arrangements. Whether or not the constitutional change that brought about the Parliament had taken place, the Scottish Office would have had the ability to run a three-year spending programme rather than annual programmes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C241570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 241570,
      "EditedText": "I want to follow up what Stephen Boyle said about the helpfulness of the level 2 data. Obviously the figures are helpful, but they are slightly limited. Had not we had Stephen Boyle here to deflate them for us, it would have been difficult to make head or tail of the movements. Why do we not get the deflated figures? Should not that be standard practice?As Stephen said, some of the budget lines are huge. We need level 3 disaggregation if we are to make any substantive comments about the allocations. The committee must take that forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 241573,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is it exactly. We now have a spreadsheet that tallies up all the figures in \"Serving Scotland's Needs\". We never had that before and it is to be welcomed. I wish to stress Adam Ingram's point: we must request the level 3 information as that will allow us to consider meaningfully the way in which patterns of expenditure flow. Stephen spoke about the substantial percentage increase in social inclusion spend. To what extent will that increase have come about because of, for example, reductions in the European regional development fund? Is the Administration making reallocations simply to compensate for ERDF reductions, or are there other sources of expenditure—previous headings—that may have been gathered together to be compensated under the social inclusion heading? That seems to be a large shift of resources and I cannot quite understand where it has come from."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 241579,
      "EditedText": "That can be done only once, because of the way in which we are going about planning expenditure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 241581,
      "EditedText": "I wish to make two detailed points, the first of which goes back to what I said about last week. The detailed programme is rolled out after the chancellor's announcement, like Helen Liddell's announcement about the business schools' arrangement with France and so on. Is not it difficult to disaggregate that kind of expenditure in order to see what comes to Scotland? It is virtually impossible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 241585,
      "EditedText": "If any of that money is to come to Scotland, it must come under AME. Searching questions could be asked about what is coming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 241591,
      "EditedText": "We have mentioned the need for more disaggregation, down to level 3 figures. Stephen's point is valid: because we got the data only in cash terms, he has had to apply a general deflator. When the Scottish Executive presents figures in real terms, it is legitimate for this committee to ask the Scottish Executive what deflators it is using to bring the figures into real terms.Is the Executive applying a specific head deflator, such as general pharmaceutical services, where we know that there is significant inflation, or is it applying a general deflator? If the general one is applied to, for example, the health budget, the figure may appear to be rising for that head but it could be falling. It is important that the methodology that the Executive is using on deflation is made available to the committee so that members can have a much better understanding of the real, underlying changes. At the moment, members cannot understand that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 241592,
      "EditedText": "My understanding, from examining the level 1 data, is that a uniform deflator has been assumed across all budget heads."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 241593,
      "EditedText": "My feeling, from \"Serving Scotland's Needs\", was that there was some difference in the deflators, although I was not clear where they came from."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 241594,
      "EditedText": "I will return to John Swinney's point about the bulge—the one-off windfall that we will allegedly have in the coming year. Surely if we are to establish whether that is what will happen, we must carry out an analysis backwards on the outturn figures for previous years. It is naive to expect that because the Scottish Parliament is here we will suddenly spend 100 per cent of the planned budget in the next one to two years and that there will be no underspends in any budgets.The world does not work that way. I do not think that the argument that this is a one-off benefit will stand up to scrutiny. At the end of planned expenditure budgets each year there will be underspends in some areas and overspends in others.There will not be a 100 per cent spend every year when outturn figures come through. It would be useful for this committee to have an analysis of previous years' outturn figures to see how much was underspent and whether it was taken back to the Treasury. That would give some indication as to what underspend there may be in years to come."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 241596,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it shows a one-off gain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 241597,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not think that that is exactly true. If you present the data in terms of planned expenditures, you can always—if you underspent last year—bring that forward into next year's plans. You then get the rather bizarre situation that your ex post planning data do not change, but your forward planning data can change as a consequence of the underspend in the previous years. That is why you need outturn data to make any sense of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 241600,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful, convener, if we could have an analysis of the underspends in previous years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C241604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 241604,
      "EditedText": "We will obviously have to follow that up, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 241605,
      "EditedText": "Looking through this, there is a big decline in the level 1 figure for the justice budget, but then, when we get down to the level 2 figures, it does not seem to appear. Do we have any idea what that reduction is? The Scottish Executive administration costs are down as well; I would have thought that they would be increasing. Perhaps that is why it is taking eight weeks to reply to letters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 241607,
      "EditedText": "Does that discrepancy arise because the analysis covers a different period?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 241609,
      "EditedText": "Out of interest, do we have any idea what Scottish Executive administration is? I cannot understand why the amount for that has gone down so significantly, certainly at level 1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 241610,
      "EditedText": "There is only one line for Scottish Executive administration. I assume that this year and next year there are set-up costs, which will begin to fall out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 241611,
      "EditedText": "Is the reason for the increase in the social inclusion budget the huge transfer from the local government budget to communities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 241614,
      "EditedText": "There is no indication, as local authority current expenditure is one line of £5.5 billion. All we know is that a sum has been deducted from that and reassigned to communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 241616,
      "EditedText": "We can take advice or evidence from any source that we think appropriate. If we find a good source, I think that we should do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 241617,
      "EditedText": "I agree with David Davidson. I think that what he suggests is very important in allowing us to function as a committee and to ask the right questions. We are going round in circles here and are poking about in the dark."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 241618,
      "EditedText": "It is terribly important that we have special advisers, although obviously the committee has to decide on matters itself. Mike Watson will know that special advisers are sometimes appointed for just one inquiry but, on an on-going matter such as spending, we need permanent advisers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 241623,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure what the information would be; I would have to look into it. It is interesting that the local authority budget is increasing in cash terms, as well as in real terms. Something must be driving that, but we are not being told what. Is it being driven from the bottom up? Presumably, it must be coming from the local authorities. However, it would be useful for the committee to have that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 241624,
      "EditedText": "The budget is going up in cash terms from a low base. In 1997-98 it reached its nadir of £5.384 billion and it has crept up since. The 1998-99 figure will be a decline in real terms from 1997-98 but, in that period, real burdens on local authorities have increased. There is a squeeze."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 241629,
      "EditedText": "That is because we would need the local authority line to be broken down, and we do not have it broken down. That is the case with education as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 241631,
      "EditedText": "I hear what you are saying, Stephen, and respect the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy, but is this not something that the Scottish Executive should provide?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 241632,
      "EditedText": "If the committee wanted to make progress on this quickly, the information is there. I do not know how quickly the Executive would be able to respond."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 241633,
      "EditedText": "Could we try to avoid talking over one another, as it is difficult for the official report to follow?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 241634,
      "EditedText": "In Fife alone, local government has had to absorb £47 million in salary increases over the past six years. We can get the broken-down figures for that sort of thing. However—and I would be grateful to our witnesses if they could provide feedback on this—the committee must also discuss how we can ensure that the different subject committees examine the budgets for their areas of responsibility. They need to work on disaggregating their budgets as far as possible and to feed that information back to us. John Swinney was right to highlight the additional costs that local government has had to absorb without assistance from central Government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 241636,
      "EditedText": "Another area that we could do with some information on is local authority funding streams from sources other than central Government, as a number of local authorities have been involved in property speculation—perhaps I should say property development—with arm's-length companies. Other local authorities are using the private finance initiative in various areas. These things do not apply evenly across Scotland, but information on them can make quite a difference to the committee's view of what goes out from the centre. We could do with some input when we are dealing with such subjects and with health matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 241638,
      "EditedText": "Surely some of the areas that David Davidson and Keith Raffan have mentioned—especially in relation to local finance—should be examined by the subject committees that are responsible for them, rather than by this committee.We are all having difficulties with the figures, for various reasons. Perhaps it would be useful to get experts from the Scottish Parliament, or from outside, to recommend ways forward and how information should or could be presented in a way that makes it easier for the committee to understand. That could mean ensuring that we see figures for actual spend against planned spend, or the rate of inflation against each of the programme headings and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 241640,
      "EditedText": "As Brian Ashcroft said, we plan to write a paper on the subjects that we have discussed. Among the points that we will address will be the significant gaps in the information. I presume that you will want the report before it sees the light of day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 241642,
      "EditedText": "That has emerged already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 241644,
      "EditedText": "I am not deriding what we are doing here today, but we cannot have a serious discussion about the figures that are in front of us because, as Brian Ashcroft outlined, we need standard formats. That would enable us to get to grips with the figures, to start looking at where the trends are going and to do some real work.Over the next few weeks, our challenge is to get to grips with this subject by working with these gentlemen, or others, to ensure that the committee comes to an agreement with the Executive on what we need to enable us to have a confident discussion on some of the issues that arise out of the Scottish Executive's budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 241650,
      "EditedText": "George Lyon has raised an important point. There is a need for continuity. Although we might want horses for courses for specific inquiries, it is urgent that the committee considers appointing permanent advisers, particularly on this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 241654,
      "EditedText": "The conveners committee has had only one meeting since we last spoke about that and there was no opportunity to raise the matter. The point is that committees need level 3 information to function effectively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 241657,
      "EditedText": "I know, but we could consider the format."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 241482,
      "EditedText": "It is important that committees go out and about, because many areas in Scotland do not have access to the Parliament. I represent the Highlands and Islands and I know that many people up there would like some kind of access. Holding a committee meeting in the area would help to provide that.I understand what you are saying about sending a couple of members from a committee, but it is important that people in more distant areas get to see most of the committee. Is there any other way of making savings, perhaps by cutting the number of support staff who travel with the committee, to allow that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:33.0758563+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241439",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
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    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 16 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 241439,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:45"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C241443",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice (Clerk and Chief Executive, Scottish Parliament): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 241443,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure whether you would prefer to deal with the wider issues first, convener. I do not want to say too much; with the time available, I would probably prefer to take questions from the committee. Shall I just say a few words now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Gilfillan (Director of Corporate Services, Scottish Parliament): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 241448,
      "EditedText": "Although we will have to find extra resources for the move-out during the general assembly, those will largely be borne in the next financial year. Developments may occur between now and the spring supplementary being tabled; however, at the moment, we are reasonably confident that we will not need any more money in the current financial year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 241451,
      "EditedText": "Mr Grice said that we hit the ground running—perhaps it was more a case of running before we could walk. However, that is now history.In the CSG report, committees were expected to meet once a fortnight, which was always unrealistic. For example, the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, of which I am a member, is meeting twice this week. Committees are sharing clerks, who are under huge pressure. What steps are being taken to increase staff to ensure that Mr Brown's intentions are fulfilled and that committees are properly resourced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 241453,
      "EditedText": "This is a serious point. At Westminster—to use the big bogey word—select committees are separate from standing committees, which scrutinise legislation. Here, we have hybrid select and standing committees. Committees at Westminster are better resourced than ours and do not have the same constraints in terms of travelling outside. Do you agree that it is important that we do not suffer from such constraints?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 241456,
      "EditedText": "The building is on programme and on budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 241461,
      "EditedText": "The SPCB and the Parliament inherited the project from the then Scottish Office, so decisions such as the fast-track approach and the site itself were made by our predecessors. We have to work within those constraints, following Parliament's vote on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 241463,
      "EditedText": "One of the difficulties was the open-ended nature of some of the budgetary provision. For example, stationery costs are met by the Parliament; they are not part of the office allowance in the normal way. That open-ended budget has gone far beyond what people had originally anticipated, because of the work load that MSPs have taken on. Similarly, travel and accommodation costs are open-ended. They are obviously necessary to enable MSPs to live in Edinburgh, but it is difficult to predict the requirements for such allowances over a full budget period. We are examining such matters as whether there are ways of bulk buying Edinburgh to Glasgow rail tickets, but I will not go into too much detail about those inquiries, as we are awaiting reports from officials. We need to see whether economies can be made without damaging the functions of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 241466,
      "EditedText": "I am talking about capping general allowances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 241469,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. What in particular are you referring to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 241486,
      "EditedText": "On the other hand, it is sometimes appropriate for a committee to meet formally, and we are keen to encourage that. Again, the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee was a good example. It was important for the committee to be seen to be doing it properly and formally.I can assure members that whenever a committee meets outwith Edinburgh—in whatever form—we consider carefully every member of the support staff who goes. We ask tough questions; we hold discussions with the convener, through the clerk, to find out what is aspired to for the outside meeting. We think hard about the matter and we do not send people out of Edinburgh lightly. Apart from the cost, it is an extra drain on staff time. We are, however, willing and keen to facilitate outside meetings and we have evidence to suggest that that has already been a success."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 241480,
      "EditedText": "When a committee travels out of Edinburgh, a range of costs is incurred—John Swinney has done this, whereas I am simply talking about it, so he is perhaps better placed to advise us. Cash is needed to hire premises, procure broadcasting equipment and arrange travel and subsistence. There are several pots for that in several different budgets, and Stewart will be able to give you more details about that. There are also costs in terms of staff time, with staff being diverted from other jobs or working overtime. It is therefore not easy to give a precise answer. In the current year, however, there is quite generous provision, and the corporate body does not stand in the way of any committee that wants to meet outside Edinburgh. As you know, the Parliamentary Bureau has to approve every case, but it considers applications not from a value-for-money point of view, but from the angle of whether there are relevant local connections. There is no overriding financial constraint for the current year. If a committee has a good reason for meeting outwith Edinburgh, that will be allowed. In setting our budget for next year, we will look at the experience of this year's visits. We have learned a tremendous amount from the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee meeting in Inverness, and I hope that we will get a better idea of the likely pattern of remote meetings for next year. We will also have a better idea of costs. The committee of conveners was willing to consider innovative and imaginative ways of meeting outside Edinburgh. There can be full-blown meetings, like the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee meeting in Inverness, but other committees have also sent small groups or individual members to informal meetings. That is a very cost-effective way of taking committee work outside Edinburgh, and I hope that, before a cast-iron budget is set for next year, we will be able to draw on more experience of remote committee meetings. I hope—I think that the corporate body would agree—that there will not be an artificial financial constraint on that aspect of committee work, bearing in mind Robert Brown's point about the need to strike a balance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 241481,
      "EditedText": "We must be aware of the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 241483,
      "EditedText": "That is one of the options that we have considered, but we must strike a balance. We want to ensure that the Parliament fulfils its functions adequately and that committees are able to travel when it is appropriate to do so. Several sources must contribute to the decision about appropriateness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Grice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 241492,
      "EditedText": "I think that the cost does spill over slightly. However, the main costs, which the Executive has already undertaken to meet out of its existing programmes, would be for works around the parliamentary complex. There may be a slight carry over, but the cost is principally contained in those three years. It is not inconceivable that there will be some spill over, but we will be well over the hump, so to speak, so it should be modest.Most of the expenditure that falls in 2002-03 will be for associated landscaping works. The Executive has made a commitment, working through the local authority, Historic Scotland and others, to meet that cost. We will have to keep it under careful review. If there was any suggestion of significant slippage into years beyond the planning horizon, we would give you as much warning as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 241493,
      "EditedText": "I am encouraged that you are on course on both the budget and completion date.My second point relates to Robert Brown's statement that the SPCB is happy to comment on strategic issues relating to areas of expenditure, but less happy to comment on the detail. The committee would want to reserve the right to decide on the level of detail. What did you have in mind? In the paper that you presented to us, general administration costs are broken down into several headings. I think that I am speaking on behalf of the committee when I say that we would consider those as legitimate areas on which to question you. Is that within the level of detail on which you thought that you would be questioned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C241494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 241494,
      "EditedText": "The view is that this is a broad approach. We accept that it is not possible to make a precise division between detail and broad principles. It is not the desire of the corporate body to obstruct the Finance Committee in any way. Ask reasonable questions and we will give you reasonable answers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 241496,
      "EditedText": "Earlier on, Robert Brown said that the budget had been inherited. We have now heard that the budget needs a lot of tweaking and that many things should be taken into consideration. I appreciate that you are going for value for money. Following John Swinney's question, has the Executive given you any indication of constraints that it might place on the likely moneys that you may wish to bid for in the future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stewart Gilfillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 241504,
      "EditedText": "I would think so. You said that you did not think that staff pay would vary. Staff pay is one of the areas that will vary if we respond to pressure for more staff to service committees. That is another area in which costs may rise. However, if you want me to say whether the variation in the budget is likely to be about £10 million, £5 million or £2 million, I would say that it would be about £2 million, or, I hope, much less."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 241512,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, gentlemen. We overran the scheduled time slightly. It is clear from the number of issues that have arisen that we would like to see you again, perhaps in a more general capacity. Before I close this part of the meeting, I thank you for your attendance. Will you let us have a draft of an agreement between the SPCB and the Finance Committee for us to consider? That will allow us to set out the method under which we will operate in future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 241515,
      "EditedText": "Will you allow the committee to consider the efficiency report, once it is complete, so that we can see whether we are getting value for money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 241520,
      "EditedText": "It is important for us to see it, so that we can judge value for money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 241521,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that a summary would be helpful. We look forward to receiving it and to seeing you again at some time in the not too distant future.A number of members feel that we should have had a longer session on that subject. However, the session was tight because the SPCB meets at 10 o'clock every Tuesday and had delayed the start of its meeting today to accommodate this evidence session. If we want to meet with the SPCB again, we may have to consider changing either our meeting or the SPCB's meeting, to allow us a longer run. I suggest that we do not discuss the matter further now and that we suspend the meeting for some 15 minutes. Coffee is about to be served and the evidence from Stephen Boyle and Brian Ashcroft is not due to start until 10.45 am. Therefore, I suggest that we suspend the meeting and resume at 10.45 am."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241522",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
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      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 241522,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 241526,
      "EditedText": "Would you prefer to complete your presentation and take questions afterwards, or take questions as we go?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 241527,
      "EditedText": "I do not mind. What is the convention of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 241528,
      "EditedText": "There is no convention, so we will proceed in whichever way is most comfortable for you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 241535,
      "EditedText": "Last week, the Chancellor of the Exchequer made an announcement about entrepreneurship. How does that affect us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 241532,
      "EditedText": "There is some truth in my statement. It partly refers to level 2 expenditure, which Stephen is going to talk about. While I do not want to pre-empt what he wants to say, the level 2 figures show that, in money terms, there is a drop in spending on Scottish Enterprise in 1999, from £400 million to £376 million. In cash terms, spending picks up again to £432 million. That spending is still there, for the present year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 241540,
      "EditedText": "The problem is that our spending is determined by the allocation to Scotland, which is driven by the Barnett formula. That applies to changes in funding to comparable programmes in England and Wales. Parliament decides on the allocation of the block that is given to Scotland and can spend as much on enterprise as it likes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 241542,
      "EditedText": "The position will be unchanged, more or less, by the end of this period. As far as I understand it, the bulge in 1999-2000 reflects the carry-forward of underspend in previous years. In one sense, it could be argued that that is not a real increase and that an examination of the outturns would show a different situation: there would be a dip in one year and an increase in the next.The total budget, compared with previous plans, hardly changes: it is about £13 million. The increased expenditure that is available for some of those programmes comes from elsewhere in the budget. However, the reallocation is only short term. For example, funds have been reallocated from non-productive expenditure, such as paying debts, to productive expenditure on housing, but those debts will have to paid at some point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 241547,
      "EditedText": "So we are not considering plans only, but plans and an outturn."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241549",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 241549,
      "EditedText": "I want to follow up what John Swinney was saying about identifying the underspend in previous years. In previous years, was the underspend claimed by Westminster?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 241553,
      "EditedText": "Wherever this money was taken from, was it a previous accumulation? At the end of each outturn, if there was an underspend was it taken back to Westminster?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 241555,
      "EditedText": "So it is a one-off?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 241556,
      "EditedText": "That is my feeling, but I do not know. It would be helpful if we had outturn figures as well as planned figures, for the reason that one can get a better understanding of the disposition of expenditures against plans."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 241561,
      "EditedText": "I have to confess I have not had the opportunity to study that issue in detail and I could not make sensible comments on it at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 241567,
      "EditedText": "All I can do is draw your attention to what the minister said in the Scottish Parliament on 6 October. He said:\"The new arrangements for end-year flexibility, introduced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, have enabled us to carry forward significantly more money from last year to this and subsequent years. The arrangement is new; it is linked closely with the move to three-year settlements within the comprehensive spending review. In the past, unspent provision had, in many cases, to be returned to the Treasury, but now, the extent to which it can be carried forward from year to year has been extended and we are making full use of that facility.\"—Official Report, 6 October 1999; Vol 2, c 1030.I do not know the details of what could and could not be carried forward in the past and what can be now. We need to see the outturn figures as well as the planned figures to make a reasoned judgment about what is happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 241571,
      "EditedText": "I was surprised to see that we got information in cash terms, as that is almost meaningless for the period we are talking about. Stephen's comments have therefore been very helpful. Stephen will correct me if I am wrong, but the level 2 figures give us a better assimilation to the bottom line of figures that were already published in \"Serving Scotland's Needs\"—they are added up to a bottom line."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 241572,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and they are in one place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 241575,
      "EditedText": "My interpretation of the figure 1 chart that Brian Ashcroft showed us is that, because of the changes made in the comprehensive spending review, the opportunity has arisen to create a one-off bulge, the impact of which will be smoothed over a three-year period. For example, we are spending 98 per cent of our capacity every year, but we will see that smoothed over in outturn figures over a three-year period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 241578,
      "EditedText": "The amount of new money is less than as presented because some of the new money was simply a reallocation—as far as I understand—from an underspend in the previous year to a planned spend in the subsequent year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 241582,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 241588,
      "EditedText": "It is not just a question of getting more detailed figures. I was with Tayside Health Board last Friday and read Public Finance magazine last night and learned that generic drugs have multiplied in price six times since last December. I do not know whether you know about that. Inflation in generic drug prices is huge and it is causing huge problems for health boards. Presumably the Executive knows about that and is making allowances for it, so it is not a real increase in expenditure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 241590,
      "EditedText": "This is the sort of matter that we can find out about only through parliamentary questions. It is important; all the health boards are under huge pressure on their drugs budgets at the moment. Tayside Health Board has a £1 million overspend already. That has had huge repercussions for its budget. Perhaps the Executive is more aware of this than it has indicated in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 241595,
      "EditedText": "I am arguing that the graph illustrates that the minister has announced planned expenditure for the next year and has added on the surplus that has been carried over from the previous financial year. This is the first time he has been able to do that, so has given us a revised, inflated, planned figure. He will never be able to do that again because it will meander along as in previous years.I am trying to get to the nub of this: has an inflated planned figure been announced—with a flourish—that will be valid for one year only? Will we then revert to a much more smoothed-out level of expenditure? The graph seems to suggest that that is what will happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 241599,
      "EditedText": "Exactly—but that is the whole point. The outturn figure for 1998-99 has not been published, as far as I know, so we cannot compare. If you always present things in planning terms, the previous years are the previous plans, and they stick; but the future years can change according to the degree to which you carry forward. You are not comparing like with like. That is why you must have the outturn figures to make sense of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 241601,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that will necessarily be as easy as you might think. Ten or 15 years ago, the issue with budgeting in the United Kingdom was not underspend but overspend. UK Governments systematically overspent on their budgets for a whole host of reasons. There has been greater discipline in public sector budgeting throughout most of the 1990s, so there have been underspends.At a UK level, we have typically had three bites at planned expenditure. This year we would have plans for this year, next year and the year after; next year, two of those years would be revised. So which is the relevant comparator? Do you compare the first version of the plan with the outturn, or do you compare the third version of the plan with the outturn? The exercise is well worth doing, but it is not necessarily straightforward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241613",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 241613,
      "EditedText": "So was that money in the local government budget before? It was not ring-fenced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 241619,
      "EditedText": "On call."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 241620,
      "EditedText": "They should be on call from one year to the next. If we chop and change advisers, we will get more confused than we are already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 241621,
      "EditedText": "We will have to consider that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 241625,
      "EditedText": "There is not necessarily a correlation between expenditure and the services that a local authority has to bear. We need that information and we need to find a way of pulling all the local authority accounts together. That is the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 241627,
      "EditedText": "The figure for the amount spent on social housing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3370448+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Boyle: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 241630,
      "EditedText": "There are two approaches that we could take to this kind of issue. Some of the tables in \"Serving Scotland's Needs\" were helpful in explaining where there had been reallocations of responsibilities, but trying to track them is exceptionally difficult. One would have to reach judgments and make compromises about what the data were saying.I have not looked at those figures in much detail recently, but the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy also produces some fairly detailed data on local authority spending, both capital and current. Those might help the committee to get disaggregations of the local authority lines quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 241639,
      "EditedText": "Stephen and Brian, if there is any specific information that you think we should be asking the Executive or the Minister for Finance for, it would be helpful if you would tell us. We want to know which questions to ask to elicit the information that will enable us to make proper judgments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 241641,
      "EditedText": "We have mentioned several areas already. We feel that the level 3 data, where they are available, would help in the analysis of trade-offs. Clearly, you need to have the data in real terms as well as in cash terms. To judge those data appropriately, you need information on the deflators that are being used, from which you can assess the implicit judgments about inflation in each of the heads."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 175.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Ashcroft: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 241643,
      "EditedText": "It is crucial if any sense is to be made of the data. You would also need up-to-date information on outturn expenditure as well as on planning expenditure. That information is crucial if you are to make a judgment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 241646,
      "EditedText": "Brian Ashcroft's summary on the type of information that would be useful is absolutely what we need. We asked for and have received level 2 information, which saves us a lot of headaches in trying to put columns together in \"Serving Scotland's Needs\". Some of the detail in that document does not really show us level 3 information or how small the large numbers can become. We should follow Brian's suggestions about the kind of information that we should request from the Minister for Finance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
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      "ID": 6339,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 241648,
      "EditedText": "Will Stephen and Brian also be involved with the committee when their report becomes available? Perhaps we need to have an on-going input from them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 241649,
      "EditedText": "We will have to discuss that separately. It is understood that we will need some general reference point—if that is not too crude a way of putting it—to keep us properly informed. That might not involve just one or two people; it might well be horses for courses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 241653,
      "EditedText": "Elaine Thomson rightly raised the issue of what other committees are doing with the budget. Have you established relations with other committees through the conveners committee so that we do not get an issue dumped on us for a yes or no? We need flows of information from other committees about the budget process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241656",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 241656,
      "EditedText": "But that has already been agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Expenditure Plans (2000-01)",
      "HeadingID": 6339,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 241659,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:03."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3526716+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1401
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body",
      "HeadingID": 6338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 241485,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It is important that people have access, although not necessarily to a formal committee meeting. They need access to the members of the committee to get their views across and to be involved in the decision-making process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:33.0758563+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 191200,
      "EditedText": "I have not seen these procedures, so they are new to me as well. Can a reporter draft a report, to be submitted to the committee meeting in private, without reference to the other members of the reporter's group?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:06.049037+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 191203,
      "EditedText": "There is a point of principle here. One way in which the committee can avoid having to meet in private is for the reporters' groups to be consulted on reports that are to be submitted to the committee. As a reporter, I would be more comfortable with that. I would be concerned about submitting a report on a disability issue without consulting the disability reporter's group, as it might then be ripped to shreds in informal discussion by the full committee. We should take a step back and establish at the outset that reporters should consult the relevant reporter's group before submitting anything to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:06.049037+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 191205,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed, then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:06.049037+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 191114,
      "EditedText": "If the local authority sets indicators for its schools and the local authority is responsible for evaluation and monitoring, there is potential for a conflict of interest. Although the local authority should have a role, should the inspectors be explicitly responsible for identifying issues and flagging them up to local authorities? If there is a national trend of problems, should HM inspectors be responsible for flagging up to ministers issues about the effectiveness of policy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4581,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 191135,
      "EditedText": "In paragraph 13, headed \"Registration of Independent Schools\", you recommend \"a direct reference to compliance with the Sex Discrimination Act\"when Scottish ministers\"issue a formal notice of complaint\".Are you concerned about the issue of equality in independent schools, given that they are outwith the strategic framework?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 16 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4580,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 191092,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:06"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4581,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 191096,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 191097,
      "EditedText": "Have committee members seen our input to the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 191102,
      "EditedText": "Sheila has recently taken up her post with the EOC."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 191103,
      "EditedText": "I hope that I will be able to answer any questions pertaining to the recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 191108,
      "EditedText": "I could, perhaps, refer you to the point that I made earlier regarding pre-school education and compulsory schooling. There are children who have a record of needs in those circumstances and gender disaggregation is not available. There are different requirements for children with special needs, as there are for boys and girls generally. The gender-blind approach simply will not throw that up. If boys and girls are treated as identical units, the best answers will not be found and it will not be possible to target policies and services effectively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 191110,
      "EditedText": "That question would be more appropriately put to those with special disability expertise. Our focus is on gender equality, although I appreciate that this is an equal opportunities committee. We try to recognise that the world in general does not break the equalities issue down to the responsibilities of statutory bodies. We try to produce evidence, guidelines and helpful back-up material that take account of the way ordinary people will need to use them. It is not necessary for people to be experts to use what we produce.However, there are areas in which the committee will need the expertise of those who are expert in disability equality issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 191111,
      "EditedText": "One of the key elements about which people with disabilities express concern is having choice, so that if they wish to take part in mainstream education, support mechanisms are there for them, their needs are taken into account, and they are treated as part of the whole school system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4581,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 191118,
      "EditedText": "Is not that the problem? Did not you say at the beginning that you regard the HMI indicators as satisfactory?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 191122,
      "EditedText": "Can you give a concrete example of what you mean by performance indicators for pre-school education?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 191123,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to come back to you on that, Malcolm. We will write to you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191124",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 191124,
      "EditedText": "My question is also on performance indicators. I seek guidance from you on supporting best performance in schools, which you deal with in section 8 of your submission. Point 8.4 says:\"EOC Scotland recommends that the criteria used by authorities in identifying schools that are falling behind or failing to achieve the standards of which they are capable must be inclusive of equality monitoring and evaluation procedures.\"I am worried generally that performance indicators are often used in the wrong way, particularly when they take no cognisance of the different levels of inequality from which some schools start. The teaching unions also are wary of performance indicators being imposed. When you discuss suggestions and proposals, is there a mechanism for discussing with the teaching unions their concerns to ensure that a broad level of indicator is not set against the schools, which takes no note of the different inequalities that exist in different areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 191131,
      "EditedText": "To encourage men to apply for jobs in primary teaching, we must emphasise the importance of the job and ensure that people are aware of the key role that primary head teachers play. We need to beef up the job so that anyone would find it desirable. That is what Veronica Rankin of the Educational Institute of Scotland suggested.We have not yet explored in depth the issue of teacher training. Teachers are a great source of expertise and they could share best practice for dealing with equality issues in the classroom. They could be used to inform our approach to training in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 191134,
      "EditedText": "It is entirely lawful to encourage men to enter teacher training for primary school and I am surprised that that weapon in the arsenal has not yet been used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 191136,
      "EditedText": "I do not have any particular schools in mind. This is a general point. Such schools must comply with the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 and we want them to promote equality of opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 191139,
      "EditedText": "Two of your recommendations require local authorities to supply certain information. What has been your experience of that up to now? Are local authorities ready to supply the information required to allow proper monitoring of equality issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 191142,
      "EditedText": "The Parliament has a good resource in the form of Esther Breitenbach, the women's issues research consultant in the Scottish Executive. I will talk to her and to our research unit for a range of such statistics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 191143,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask one final question about best value, although it probably takes us beyond the scope of this bill. You mentioned that the EOC would like to see greater weight given to equality measures within the best value framework, beyond simple cost measures. I am sure that this committee will be giving its attention to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 191148,
      "EditedText": "I know that equality is part of the teacher training process. Whether it is suitable or adequate is another question. Sheila mentioned earlier that we work with the education and training strategy implementation advisory group—the oddly titled ETSIAG—to ensure that we have access to the skills and expertise of the people who can really help us to make the changes in the education and training sector that we want to see with regard to equality. That is the type of question that we can discuss at an ETSIAG meeting, and we will call upon our colleagues there to help us answer it.I do not think that we should ever be satisfied with what is happening. When teachers come out of the teacher training process, they have, in some cases, insufficient awareness of the impact of inequality and of how insidious it is. The roots of why so few girls do physics and computing at higher level go back, to an extent, to the home. I am conscious of that, as an enthusiastic grandmother. I know how difficult it is to recognise that the wee child I know is cut off, perhaps, from a whole range of future jobs because of the education and guidance received. The roots of it also go to pre-school and primary school education.Our not producing enough specialist graduates in science and technology is partly because of the fact that we are not helping girls to develop in that direction. We have an opportunity in the education system to make a positive contribution to Scotland's future economy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 191155,
      "EditedText": "Jamie McGrigor raised two points. He mentioned some complaints that he had had regarding the accessibility of ferries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 191156,
      "EditedText": "When I was in the Isle of Bute a while ago, the question was raised by a lady called Dorothy MacDonald, who is the chairman of a group called Achievement Bute, which helps young children with disabilities. She talked about the ferries between Rothesay and the mainland and asked me to raise the matter of disabled access. I advised her to write to our clerk. What did she write, Martin?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 191160,
      "EditedText": "In principle, we should go. However, I was going to raise a point about disability and housing and I think that there might be a question about the order in which we tackle subjects. As we will be dealing with transport quite soon, when we consider the transport bill, it might make sense to deal with the ferry issue when we do that. I am worried that we will have too many balls in the air before Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C191163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 191163,
      "EditedText": "I support what Malcolm said. There is an issue about the ferries—no one would dispute that—but there are also issues about trains and buses. It would be useful to put together all those problems relating to access and public transport, including ferries, and to examine the big picture. We should have a debate on the wider issues of access and we should spend some time examining transport, but I leave it to you, convener, to decide in what order we should examine the issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 191168,
      "EditedText": "Has the whole committee been asked to attend?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 191169,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It is one-day seminar on developing an equality agenda for housing. Bob Benson, director of Disability Scotland, has been in touch about this. I have been asked to speak at the seminar and, if this committee wants to meet, I will not be able to speak, as this committee cannot go ahead unless I am here. The committee could send somebody else to speak, or the whole committee could go along."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 191172,
      "EditedText": "That is an insurmountable problem, Martin. We cannot ask that seminars and conferences meet only on the days that we do not. We have to accept that the member of the committee who is selected or asked to go will have to miss the committee that day. Did you say that you are going to be chairing it, Malcolm?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 191178,
      "EditedText": "I spoke about that to the committee clerk this morning, and it is all in hand. I hope that we will shortly have a timetable for all the different groups that will be coming and speaking to the committee. It is just a case of fitting them all in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 191180,
      "EditedText": "The invitation has not gone out yet, but it will go out soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 191181,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether, in Johann's absence, Elaine Smith can answer a question about the visit to Cornton Vale prison. Is that visit being organised in relation to a specific issue, or is it a general visit? If it is a general visit, is it open to all members of the Equal Opportunities Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 191185,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to return to this, Kate, but I am not a member of the group so I have to raise these questions in committee. The reason I asked about the visit is that I am looking forward to the paper from Sheila McLean on alternatives to custody for women prisoners. That is an issue that everyone is concerned about, and it would be good to link that paper with a visit to Cornton Vale. It could make clear the inadequacy of Cornton Vale as an institution to deal with women, especially young women, who are being sent there for very minor offences."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 191186,
      "EditedText": "Although the Justice and Home Affairs Committee is very busy at the moment with the legislative programme, the treatment of women offenders and young offenders are issues that it is interested in. Elaine can check who can go on the visit that is being organised, and we can discuss at a future meeting whether this committee wants to organise a visit as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 191188,
      "EditedText": "Elaine can let me know when we get that paper.The next subject is the race issues group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 191189,
      "EditedText": "The first meeting of the group is scheduled for Tuesday morning. On the agenda will be the Act of Settlement 1701, an issue that was raised at the previous meeting of the committee. In the interim, I have made some initial contacts and carried out some research on the issues that may arise. It is a complex matter. I have given a draft statement to the members of the group so that the issue can be discussed when we meet. The clerks office has provided a series of guidelines that lay out the procedures that we must follow if we are to produce a report and, once that report is completed, what we can do with it.Given its complexity and importance, we cannot rush into this matter. I hope that the committee will understand that we have to take our time and follow correct procedures if our outcome is to have any meaning. That will have implications in other areas, because the debate on this matter is on-going. If the committee is to do a proper job, I plead with other groups and individuals who have an interest to give us a chance to deal with it before it is dealt with anywhere else.As a committee, we can take this matter to the Executive. It would then be up to the Executive to decide how it relates the matter to the rest of the Parliament. However, to give this committee its place, and given what I have said about the complexity of the subject, I ask that no one rushes into this matter in any capacity. We must do it right.The Catholic Church, in my initial contacts with it, indicated that it did not want the issue to become a political football. It is important that that is borne in mind. I am just highlighting some of the difficulties that we will uncover. Martin Verity knows what the procedures are and we must follow them. We cannot deal with this matter in the immediate future but, as the Catholic Church has waited 300 years, I do not think that there is any rush to achieve an outcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 191195,
      "EditedText": "According to the guidelines, the reporter or convener must produce a draft report to come before the committee. It is suggested that the initial meeting to discuss the draft report should be held in private, in case any comments that members make in that discussion have wider implications. The reporter then produces a final report, taking on board members' views, which is again brought before the committee. If there is a vote, any amendments or dissenting positions must be noted. The report is then sent to the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 191198,
      "EditedText": "We have a committee meeting next Tuesday afternoon. If we hold a meeting of the reporter's group that morning, it may be possible to have a draft report ready for discussion at the afternoon meeting. However, I suspect that that will not be possible if we want to do this issue justice. The next formal meeting of the committee will be on 14 December. I imagine that we will aim to complete the draft report for that date, rather than for next Tuesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 191199,
      "EditedText": "I will put discussion of the report on the agenda for next Tuesday, just in case it is ready."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 191201,
      "EditedText": "The reporter's group is an informal group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 191204,
      "EditedText": "I am happy for the committee to agree to that, but we would have to do so informally. No one is less happy than I am about some of the procedures in which we seem to get tied up. However, any agreement that we made would be informal and would have no place in the guidance that has been issued."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 191208,
      "EditedText": "It has been suggested that meetings to discuss such reports should be held in private because the reports would still be at draft stage. If the meetings were held in public, it might be assumed that these were final documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 191210,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the guidance on private meetings indicates that the principle behind them is to defend someone's personal interests. For example, someone may be aware of a Catholic who wants to marry a royal, and perhaps that should be discussed in private. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 191212,
      "EditedText": "Failing that, however, we should be willing to discuss drafts as well as reports openly. If anyone asks about those discussions or comments on them, we should simply emphasise the fact that the document under discussion is a draft. We are mature enough to discuss a draft and then a final document, and we will probably be misquoted whatever we decide to do, so the idea of something going on in private, behind closed doors with white smoke coming out of chimneys, will probably lead to even more misquoting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4582,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 191216,
      "EditedText": "The document has been drawn up in the clerking division. The Parliament is regulated by the Scotland Act 1998 and by standing orders, issued under the authority of the Scotland Act 1998. Within those standing orders, the clerks will offer advice on any issues that we are asked to comment on. The purpose of this document is to indicate the advice that clerks will give. It has been approved by the clerking division and by the Parliamentary Bureau. It is a public document that is available on the website and will be updated from time to time. It indicates to members of the Parliament and members of the public the advice that clerks will give when procedural questions are raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 191217,
      "EditedText": "Is it a clarification of what is already in the standing orders and the Scotland Act 1998?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 191219,
      "EditedText": "I had not seen it before, so that explanation was helpful. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 191222,
      "EditedText": "Okay. Michael McMahon will take that on board.Nora is passing around copies of her report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 191224,
      "EditedText": "That's fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 191225,
      "EditedText": "I am not catching up with myself.One of the key issues concerning the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill is equality for same-sex couples, which raises the question of what other legislation will be affected by that underlying principle. We will need to do a lot of work to get equality for same-gender couples into all legislation. The report outlines what we need to do to tackle the problem.I think that the rest of the report speaks for itself. In the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, the definition of next of kin derives from the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. Does the committee agree to make a representation to the Millan committee about this issue? Do we need to submit a report to the lead committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4582,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 191226,
      "EditedText": "About making a representation to the Millan committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 191234,
      "EditedText": "Very good. Is it agreed that Nora should report back to the committee on same-sex relationships?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4583,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 191237,
      "EditedText": "There will be a joint submission on the improving schools bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 191239,
      "EditedText": "The timing is up to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 191241,
      "EditedText": "The consultation document contains a draft proposed bill. We will move to stage 1 when the Executive presents the bill to the Parliament. I do not know the precise time scale for the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 191243,
      "EditedText": "We can make comments on the general principles of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 191248,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:28."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 191221,
      "EditedText": "Before we go on, I notice that we have received an invitation from the Africa Centre Scotland to discuss the Immigration and Asylum Bill. The important issue of the Act of Settlement 1701 will probably dominate the next couple of meetings of the sub-group. However, the committee should consider the equal opportunities issues arising from the Asylum and Immigration Bill which at the moment is shuttling between the House of Commons and the House of Lords. Can I suggest that the sub-group examine the bill as soon as possible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:03.146396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191191",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 191191,
      "EditedText": "I have no intention of addressing the issue itself—that is for the reporter's group to discuss. I would like to see in writing the procedures to which Michael McMahon referred. Are they new or are they guidelines that are laid down in the standing orders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:25.9917783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 191098,
      "EditedText": "It has been circulated to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191099",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 191099,
      "EditedText": "Then you will all have had an opportunity to read our submission. The EOC's responsibilities relate only to equality of opportunity between women and men. Other statutory bodies deal with other areas.Our responsibility is to enforce the legislation, principally the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 and the Equal Pay Act 1970, but also a number of other pieces of legislation. In addition to our law-enforcement role, we have responsibility for promoting equality of opportunity for women and men. Broadly speaking, that is what we will talk about in relation to the draft bill. We think that the most effective way to achieve our aims is through mainstreaming equality of opportunity. I am aware that that is what the Parliament intends to do and it is quite a new idea for many people, including us. Although the concept is easy enough to grasp in principle, the practice of it causes some difficulty from time to time. Let me say briefly what the Equal Opportunities Commission thinks mainstreaming is. The process of mainstreaming equality is concerned with the integration of equal opportunities principles, strategies and practices into the everyday work of Government and other public bodies. That must happen right from the start, rather than adding it on at the end and ticking a box saying, \"Have we considered the equality implications?\" when there is no way of demonstrating that we have. The process must be integrated into the work that we do. Mainstreaming equality is a long-term strategy to frame policies in terms of the real ways in which men's and women's daily lives operate and to change organisation cultures and structures accordingly. In essence, the process puts people and their diverse needs and experiences at the heart of policy making. One can see why a process that helps to achieve that can lead to better government through better-informed policy making and greater transparency and openness in the policy process. The process of mainstreaming equality also tackles the structures in society that contribute to or sustain gender segregation and discrimination. It can avoid the adoption of policies and programmes that replicate discrimination and exacerbate existing inequalities. However, it does not stand alone, and must complement all the other methods that have been used in the past and will continue to be used in the future to promote equality of opportunity. I am talking about the law, obviously, but also about positive action, monitoring, auditing, setting targets and having an equal opportunities programme. Mainstreaming equality is complementary to all those things. When we say that mainstreaming equal opportunities is everybody's responsibility, that does not mean that it is somebody else's responsibility. It is your responsibility as members of this committee and members of the Scottish Parliament. We would like MSPs to go through the process whenever they consider a policy or a piece of legislation. On 1 December, the Equal Opportunities Commission, in partnership with the Commission for Racial Equality, will launch a checklist for MSPs. It will be a handy, laminated card, the size of a credit card, and we are trying to keep the number of words on it to a helpful limit. The cards will be backed up by background information to explain the process and give some examples. We think that members will find it helpful. The First Minister will launch the checklist on 1 December, although we are not sure what the venue will be. We understand that there have been problems finding suitable accommodation with all the right technology. I hope that you will find the checklist helpful. I will run through some of the questions it will ask, which we used when we put together our response to the bill. The checklist would ask, what is this bill or policy for? Who is the policy for? What are the desired and anticipated outcomes? You need to be seeking the answers to those questions in terms that recognise equality of opportunity and the different equality groups.Does the policy properly consider the needs of diverse groups? We should not forget that different groups are not homogeneous. Often they overlap, but a woman from a black and ethnic minority community has different needs from a woman in a rural area. Those issues must be considered. Has the equality dimension been explicitly addressed? That is a general question that would be asked. You would want to keep in mind the goals and outcomes of policies that either perpetuate or overcome existing inequalities.A second main question would be, do you have full information on, and a full analysis of, the impact of the bill or the policy on all of the equality groups? If you do not, why not? Have the data that you have been given been broken down by gender, race and disability? While a lot of the statistics relating to education are available disaggregated by gender, not all of them are.Not that long ago, we sent the committee our leaflet \"Supporting Gender Equality in Lifelong Learning\". In it, we tried to produce gender-disaggregated information on a range of issues. I thought that information on children at primary and secondary schools would be available in a gender-disaggregated form, but it is not. At some level, someone must know that information. If you are making decisions about what is going on in schools you would want that data.Information on children with a record of needs is not available in a gender-disaggregated form; neither is information on pre-school or primary-age children, young adults and adults who are in community education. I am sure that someone has the statistics. It would be important to ask the questions and to explore what the difficulties are in letting you have such information.You would want to ask, who has been consulted? There is a need for expert voices and ordinary voices to be heard. The latter voices are largely those of the consumers of the services that you are providing. Have you considered the fact that it is harder for some groups to speak out than others?The third main question you would ask is, has the full range of options, and the differential impacts on equality groups, been presented? You should ask what the impact is of values assumptions and stereotypes on the options that have been presented and have been favoured. How have your own values, opinions and experiences influenced your understanding of the issues?A fourth main question is, what are the outcomes and consequences of the proposals? Have the indirect, as well as the direct, effects of proposals been taken into account? When we produce the checklist with back-up material on 1 December, we will provide examples from either this country or abroad where the difference between the direct and the indirect effects has been tremendous.Our fifth question is a clear question—how have the policy makers in the Executive demonstrated that they have mainstreamed equality? How will such a policy be monitored and evaluated and how will improved awareness of equality implications be demonstrated? The mechanisms that will be put in place to examine progress on that policy will need to be examined to see whether the policy achieves the objectives that were set out for it. There will be a need to examine how that policy has impacted on different groups and whether targets have been met.Those are the kinds of processes that we believe should be taken into account when legislation is being formulated—and it is why we have approached the examination of this bill as we have. If the committee has questions for us to answer or wishes us to participate in discussion of any of those issues, we will be happy to try to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter (Equal Opportunities Commission): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 191101,
      "EditedText": "I will answer questions, although I had hoped to keep a low profile until at least my fourth week in my job."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191106",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 191106,
      "EditedText": "I will give the Executive one out of 10 for that. In \"Targeting Excellence—Modernising Scotland's Schools\" the previous Government did a very thorough job of mainstreaming equality. Although this bill is different, some of the processes that we went through and some of the recommendations that we made for that document could have been taken into account for it. I am disappointed that that did not happen, but it is not too late, of course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C191107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 191107,
      "EditedText": "On page 21, point 5.9—which is on special educational needs—of the EOC's response to \"Targeting Excellence—Modernising Scotland's Schools\" you mention that traditionally a gender-blind approach has informed work on special educational needs. Would you expand on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C191109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 191109,
      "EditedText": "We have taken evidence from other groups who work with people with profound learning difficulties. We debated the subject last week, but what is your opinion of attempts to stream people with special educational needs into mainstream schools?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 191117,
      "EditedText": "The HMI \"A Route to Equality and Fairness\" document gives a useful framework for measuring equality with performance indicators.It is important that the process should not just be number crunching; there should be qualitative mechanisms for assessing progress and the student should be considered. Personal learning plans can be a useful tool in setting targets for improvement with the individual student. Performance indicators—this point is not about equality—could relate to working more effectively in groups and having greater awareness of issues around them. We must set soft as well as qualitative indicators."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 191119,
      "EditedText": "HM inspectors put together a pack on how to assess schools' equality policies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 191120,
      "EditedText": "I see. I thought that one of the reasons a problem had not been flagged up was that it was thought that the indicators were not available. You say, however, that they are, so it should not be a problem to build assessments into the bill."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C191121",
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    },
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      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 191121,
      "EditedText": "We are all in the fairly early stages of developing performance indicators on a range of issues. The Equal Opportunities Commission and the Commission for Racial Equality have worked with the former Scottish Office and the Accounts Commission in the past couple of years to develop equality indicators for the overall process. We are making progress, but it is important to recognise that we are not seeking only numerical or quantitative indicators, although they can help at times by setting a benchmark. We must work with members and education specialists to agree what the appropriate equality indicators in particular circumstances might be. We would be happy to work in partnership to produce effective guidelines and performance indictors that would be recognised as being useful. That is the touchstone; they must be useful and go with the grain, so that they do not overload hard-pressed officials and teachers with additional work and systems. We want to find performance indicators that can be derived from work that is already being done, rather than indicators that place additional responsibilities on people."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191126",
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 191126,
      "EditedText": "Morag, I was interested that in the section \"Hearing Parent Views\", you put considerable emphasis on training for parent-teacher organisations and for other bodies that are involved in the management of schools. What policies or action plans for equal opportunities are in place at the moment, and how much emphasis do you put on those? When training is discussed in the context of education, that is not often taken to refer to parents' organisations."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C191127",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 191127,
      "EditedText": "If someone is involved in taking decisions, either about employing people or about policies, they have a responsibility to be aware of the equality implications of those decisions. We recommend strongly that such people receive training, not just in the law, but in best practice. I hope that that is happening in our schools and on our school boards.We take the issue seriously and are about to produce a useful booklet for parents to help them to help schoolchildren from an equality perspective. The booklet sets out the legislation, but also offers practical ways in which parents can assist their children. It helps them to work with schools to ensure that the abilities of every child are developed to the full without being limited by the gender segregation that still bedevils our schools and which means that very few girls do computer studies and very few boys do languages to certificate level."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 191128,
      "EditedText": "What is the current situation? Are there school boards or PTAs with equal opportunities policies and action plans, or is that generally not the case at the moment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 191129,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid that I do not know. We hope to distribute this publication to schools throughout the country. It is a partnership document that is being produced with the Scottish Parent-Teacher Council and the Scottish School Boards Association, with funding from the former Scottish Office. We are bringing people with us. We are saying that, whatever has happened in the past—and I am sorry that I cannot answer your question about the situation at present—this is what should be happening in the future. The booklet gives good, clear, well-presented advice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 191132,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up Elaine's point that the huge majority of primary teachers are women. Given that so many single-parent households are headed by women, we are concerned that boys, in particular, are finding no strong, kind male role models at school. We should be concerned about that. We recommend that the Scottish Executive encourages men to enter into primary teaching, and ensures that advertisements for teaching posts encourage men to apply for jobs in an area where they have been under-represented in the past. That is entirely lawful under the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 and has not been done in Scotland before; it should be done.Similarly, most teaching assistants are expected to be women and the opportunity to encourage men into those jobs has not yet been taken. Obviously, as recruitment continues, there is still time. I strongly recommend that lawful positive discrimination be applied."
    },
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  },
  {
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      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 191133,
      "EditedText": "That principle should be taken all the way back to primary teacher training. Advertisements can encourage men all they like, but if men are not applying for such training in the first place, they cannot apply for the jobs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 191140,
      "EditedText": "The picture is patchy; although many local authorities might be in a strong position to provide such information, some are not. However, some local authorities have done useful, ground-breaking work with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to develop methodologies and practices that allow the mainstreaming of equality. That is fertile ground."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 191141,
      "EditedText": "Can you send us a note of those educational statistics that are not disaggregated by gender? Such a list would allow us to follow up some issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 191144,
      "EditedText": "We want to see much more explicit reference to equality; we want equality to be mainstreamed. We want the questions that I outlined earlier detailed in the best value process. We want the questions to be asked and answered with a focus on equality.Equality of opportunity has a very proper place within the process. We are not suggesting a new system, but we are saying that mainstreaming fits into best value, for example; it goes with the grain. To use another example, we envisage an equality perspective on continuous improvement, which can be achieved with mainstreaming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 191145,
      "EditedText": "Are you aware of what equality training is given to teachers in teacher training colleges? Is there a module or whatever specifically devoted to it, and is it adequate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 191149,
      "EditedText": "If there are no more questions, I thank Morag and Sheila for coming. If anyone on the committee wants to get in touch about any specific issues related to this discussion, they should just contact you directly. As we proceed, we might ask you to come along again, if necessary. I hope you do not mind that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 191158,
      "EditedText": "I have spoken to the chairman of Caledonian MacBrayne, who said that he would be willing to send a representative to join in the discussion. The problem is that a lot of the ferries are old. We should suggest that if any new boats are built, they should include facilities for disabled people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 191159,
      "EditedText": "The organisation raises a number of issues. It might be worth finding out if the committee could meet in Bute so that we could experience what the crossing on the ferry is like. However, the organisation might prefer to give evidence in Edinburgh. What do members think about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 191166,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that we will invite the group from Bute and the ferry company along to the committee to give evidence?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 191167,
      "EditedText": "There is a housing seminar on 14 December—when we are scheduled to meet—to which this committee has been invited. Do members feel that the committee should attend, or should we send a representative to speak for the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 191170,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we should send a representative of this committee to the seminar with a remit to give us a written report on it which can be circulated and discussed at the next meeting. I am sorry to be a killjoy, but if the entire committee agrees to go to one conference or seminar, how many other requests to do the same will we get in the next four years? The seminar might, however, be very important and it would be useful to have a written report on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 191177,
      "EditedText": "Johann Lamont is not here, but I spoke to her yesterday and she has produced a report. Her main concern was whether the groups that were discussed at our previous meeting had been invited and whether there had been any response from them. I think that SAY Women was one, and she mentioned two or three others that were in the initial inquiry that she had conducted. I think that Tommy mentioned another group a few weeks ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 191184,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I will."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 191193,
      "EditedText": "The guidance is for the operation of committees. I received a copy at my constituency office on Friday, so it is new. I am sure that anyone can obtain a copy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 191194,
      "EditedText": "I am a member of the race sub-group, so I am in danger of arguing for early redundancy. If you read yesterday's business bulletin and look at the motions that have been lodged, you will see that an extraordinary number of members have signed a motion on the Act of Settlement. There is an extraordinary level of interest in the Parliament's attitude towards the act, regardless of our legal competency in the matter. I wonder, therefore, whether we should not have a full committee investigation of this issue, rather than leaving it to the race sub-group. I think that the issue may be too big for the sub-group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 191196,
      "EditedText": "That said, it would be for this committee to decide whether the draft report was discussed in private. As convener, I feel that as little business as possible should be discussed in private. It would be up to the committee to decide on the day whether the meeting should be held in public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 191202,
      "EditedText": "Our reporters' groups are informal, so, unlike reporters, they are not recognised in the guidance for the operation of committees. However, the situation that Michael Matheson has described would not arise because of the way in which the reporters' groups work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 191209,
      "EditedText": "I am reluctant for any meetings to be held in private. I do not see a problem with the public or the press having a better understanding of how we reach a final conclusion because they have been involved in the discussion all along. That is my personal opinion, and it is up to the committee to decide. However, I am reluctant for the committee to discuss in private matters that have been debated in the press. When the draft comes to the committee, we can decide, but I am definitely biased towards having all our meetings in public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 191211,
      "EditedText": "The proposal is in the post."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 191213,
      "EditedText": "I had better declare an interest here—my daughter has always wanted to be a princess. Laughter. I take Tommy's point. I am not saying that we should hold debates in private; I am saying that we have the option to do that. If a smaller group decides that a private meeting would be in the interests of the committee, it could recommend that. However, I am certainly not recommending that that is what should happen. I am simply pointing out something that is in the guidelines and that should perhaps be considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 191214,
      "EditedText": "If a discussion were likely to disclose private information about an individual, it may be in the committee's best interests to meet in private. That will always be an option for us. In general, however, we would want all our meetings to be in public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 191215,
      "EditedText": "How was the guidance arrived at? Who drew it up? What consultation was there? Should we, as a committee, discuss the document? We all have a vested interest in how the committee is run, so that may be either a helpful suggestion or a can of worms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 191220,
      "EditedText": "A copy reached my office on Friday. If anybody feels that there are problems with it, those problems could be raised at the Procedures Committee. The document is an interpretation of the standing orders and people may disagree with it, so I invite any comments. The final progress report, on sexual orientation issues, is from Nora Radcliffe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 191223,
      "EditedText": "On 3 November, we met people from the Equality Network and Outright Scotland to discuss what issues the reporter's group should be considering. I think that the report is reasonably self-explanatory. The repeal of section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988 was welcomed. There were some questions about how we set about benchmarking and collecting data. At the previous committee meeting, we said that we wanted copies of the City of Edinburgh Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender Community Safety Forum report on violence and harassment. Andrew O'Donnell, one of the authors, would like to report to the committee and I will consult the convener about that. Sorry, I should have done that already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 191228,
      "EditedText": "I think that that would have to be an agenda item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 191233,
      "EditedText": "Well, I had one very productive meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ID": 4583,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 191236,
      "EditedText": "Are the CRE and the Centre for Education for Racial Equality in Scotland coming to the committee or will we wait until they have written their report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ID": 4583,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 191240,
      "EditedText": "That leads on to a question about the time scale for the education bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ID": 4583,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 191244,
      "EditedText": "We will probably be able to make comments in the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ID": 4583,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 191245,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and amendments would be made at stage 2. We will hear evidence quite early in the process. I have asked Martin Verity to invite the teaching trade unions to give evidence on the equality aspect of the bill. If anybody feels that there are organisations that they want to take evidence from, they should contact Martin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ID": 4583,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 191247,
      "EditedText": "We have not been able to move that forward but will do so as soon as we can. We have to get a handle on all the requests that are coming in and arrange a timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 191112,
      "EditedText": "You talked earlier about the monitoring and evaluation of policy implementation, and your submission refers to the need for national performance indicators for equality issues. Also, you say that at a local level there should be consideration for each school. Do you envisage HM inspectors being responsible for evaluating policy implementation within schools? Later in the submission you refer to the need for criteria for inspectors monitoring issues. Do you think that HM inspectorate should be the main body to monitor the process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4582,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 191197,
      "EditedText": "Are there time scales for when the report would come back to the full committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:03.146396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 16 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4580,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4580,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Kate MacLean): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 191093,
      "EditedText": "I welcome everyone to this morning's Equal Opportunities Committee meeting. I am sorry for the delay in starting. I thought that a supplementary agenda with other items for discussion was being circulated, but apparently that cannot be done without going through certain procedures. Perhaps I will be able to raise a few issues about disability and race under the item on reporters groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 191094,
      "EditedText": "This morning, I welcome Morag Alexander and Sheila McWhirter from the Equal Opportunities Commission, who will give evidence on the \"Improving our Schools\" consultation document. At the previous meeting, members suggested a number of groups from which we could take evidence. Other organisations will be invited to future meetings. This morning, however, it is the turn of the EOC."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 123
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander (Equal Opportunities Commission): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 191095,
      "EditedText": "First, I want to thank the committee for inviting us along. I am Morag Alexander, director of the EOC in Scotland. My colleague Sheila McWhirter has been with us since 1 November and comes from a very strong background of education and training with an equality perspective. We will answer the committee's questions and say some positive things about how equality can be mainstreamed into legislation. Convener, can I call you Kate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191100",
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      "ID": 1035
    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, Morag. Sheila, do you want to come in at this point or are you going to answer questions?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 191104,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 191105,
      "EditedText": "I would like to start with a general question. Towards the end of your contribution Morag, you said that one of the questions that must be asked of the Executive is how it has demonstrated that it has mainstreamed equality. Would you say that any attempt has been made to mainstream equality in the bill, or would you give the Executive only one out of 10 for that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 191113,
      "EditedText": "One of our recommendations is that the draft code of practice for the inspection of schools be amended to include a commitment to equality of opportunity. It is important that that commitment is built into the performance indicators framework. It is also important that schools are encouraged to have their own monitoring and evaluation procedures that take account of equality issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
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      "EditedText": "The improvement framework states that ministers can set national priorities but that there should be local consultation and that local authorities have the responsibility to meet the standards that are expected of them. The school development plans are a mechanism for ensuring that the schools have monitoring and evaluation of equality issues built in. The whole process is about national priorities informing local practice, and vice versa—both are essential. There should be a seamless joined-up thinking process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 191116,
      "EditedText": "One of the central things is persuading people that there are good performance indicators. What kind of indicators should we highlight?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 191125,
      "EditedText": "A group called the education and training strategy implementation advisory group, which includes representatives from all levels from a range of key organisations across the education and training sector ensures that any recommendations that come out of our work are informed more deeply by their expertise. The teaching unions are represented on the group by the Educational Institute of Scotland and the Scottish Trades Unions Congress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 191130,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the importance of teacher training. Have you examined the teacher training course to see what sort of equality training is included? Do you have any recommendations on that? You also mentioned that more than 90 per cent of primary teachers are women. Do you have any ideas for changing that and for promoting primary teaching as a career for men?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 191138,
      "EditedText": "I am not aware of any such moves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 191146,
      "EditedText": "My area of expertise is adult and continuing education. I cannot comment on the training that teachers receive, but we can find out how equality is taken into account in teacher training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191147",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 191147,
      "EditedText": "If we are going to change attitudes, that is where we will have to start. Teachers should go into the classroom with some awareness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Morag Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 191150,
      "EditedText": "Once again, thank you for inviting us. We will be happy for members to get in touch by e-mail or by phone and we will try to answer their questions. We will be happy to participate in any further meetings on a range of subjects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheila McWhirter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 191151,
      "EditedText": "We will leave these documents for you. One document is about gender and differential achievement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 191152,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Sheila. I will ensure that those are circulated to all members of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 191153,
      "EditedText": "We will now deal with the progress reports from the committee's reporters. The first report, from Michael Matheson, is about disability issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 191157,
      "EditedText": "There is a suggestion in the letter that the islanders might send a delegation to the committee to put their case. They would be grateful if the committee would tell them whether it wants them to come."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 191161,
      "EditedText": "The letter from the group indicates their willingness to come here. I think that would be better at this stage. I hope that committees generally will be willing to go outwith Edinburgh to discuss various issues, but if the Equal Opportunities Committee goes to Bute to discuss the ferry, will that set a precedent? Will we be expected to visit other parts of the country to discuss problems in regard to other modes of transport and other issues such as housing? We have been asked, rightly, to be selective about where we take the committee, but I hope that that will not be restrictive. We should also invite the chairman of Caledonian MacBrayne."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C191162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 191162,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Tommy. The problem is not only with the Clyde ferries. We hear that there are problems up and down the coast. It is not so much of a problem once people are aboard the vessels. The difficulty is encountered in getting from the quay to the vessel. Some of the new vessels that Caledonian MacBrayne has built have excellent facilities. If the group from Bute comes to the committee, we will see the wider picture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 191164,
      "EditedText": "Is everybody quite happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 191171,
      "EditedText": "The only problem is that the seminar is taking place on a day on which this committee is scheduled to meet so, if a member went, they would not be able to attend the committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 191173,
      "EditedText": "I am chairing the afternoon meeting, but I am not in favour of missing a committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 191174,
      "EditedText": "Michael, would you be able to attend?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 191176,
      "EditedText": "All right. I will talk to people and try to get something worked out.The next report is from the gender issues group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C191179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 191179,
      "EditedText": "I can confirm to the committee that the invitation to the Scottish Human Rights Centre is now in hand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 191182,
      "EditedText": "Sylvia Jackson is organising that visit, and she happened to mention it to Johann. Sylvia is checking how many visitors Cornton Vale can accommodate at one time. I had also been interested in going, but I have something else on that day. We should have a word with Sylvia. It may be that the prison wants only one or two people, but we can check that. If it is not possible that way, Tommy, perhaps this committee could think about organising a visit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 191183,
      "EditedText": "So will you check with Sylvia and get back to Tommy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 191187,
      "EditedText": "We do not yet have a date for the publication of Professor McLean's paper, although Malcolm may know more about it. I think that the visit to Cornton Vale will be in the next few weeks. The two may not tie in, so it might be better and more appropriate for the committee to think about a visit after having seen the paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 191190,
      "EditedText": "I will open up the discussion on the procedures that we will follow, but not on the issue itself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 191192,
      "EditedText": "The guidelines are new. I think that they were published in November 1999. I came across them only because I wanted to check the procedures that had to be followed. I wanted to wait until next week to give the reporter's group a chance to look not just at the issues, but at the guidelines on how we can deal with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 191206,
      "EditedText": "Yes, as far as the members of this committee are concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 191207,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Michael Matheson. The situation that he has described is what I was saying would take place in this instance. The report will have to be discussed by the informal group next Tuesday before it is brought before a meeting of the committee. I would not come to this committee with a report without having discussed it with those members who had declared an interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 191218,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It cannot override either the standing orders or the act in any way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5725631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 191227,
      "EditedText": "No. I am asking whether we need to ask the lead committee whether we should make a representation to the Millan committee on this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 191229,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is what I am saying. The reporter's group should put together a report on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 191230,
      "EditedText": "It might be worth finding out what other areas of legislation will be affected, instead of doing things in bits and pieces."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 191231,
      "EditedText": "It will take decades of work to cover all the relevant legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 191232,
      "EditedText": "I mean in the current legislative programme. We could get advice from the Equality Network, which is probably more au fait with the issue than the committee is. Do members have any questions for Nora about her report? She has obviously done loads of work since the previous meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ID": 4583,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 191235,
      "EditedText": "Members should have copies of the most recent correspondence. Shona Robison has already raised the matter of the Immigration and Asylum Bill, which the race group will take on board. There was also a letter from the Commission for Racial Equality asking us to support its submission on the new race relations bill. The Queen's speech is scheduled for 17 November, so it is too late for the committee to discuss and take a formal position on the matter. If members of the committee want to do what Dharmendra Kanani has suggested and write to the Home Secretary, they should do so today. A summary of the commission's suggestions has been sent out to members and is also available from the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ID": 4583,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 191238,
      "EditedText": "Will that be before Christmas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ID": 4583,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 191242,
      "EditedText": "So if we hear evidence on the matter, we can make comments at stage 1?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4583,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ID": 4583,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 191246,
      "EditedText": "At our previous meeting, we discussed the possibility of briefings on the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. Capability Scotland had said that it would contact Martin. Has he received any information yet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5881873+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improving our Schools",
      "HeadingID": 4581,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4581,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 191137,
      "EditedText": "Do those schools have any internal mechanisms by which to address the issue? You mention entering into a dialogue with the Scottish Council of Independent Schools, as well as with the Scottish ministers. Has anything been done to address such issues and to set standards?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 191154,
      "EditedText": "I do not have anything to report, as the disability issues group did not meet because we gave a report at the last meeting that set issues for the committee to discuss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 191165,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Marilyn. If we are going to examine the ferries, we should try to do something about the general situation and set up a committee on transport issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 16 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1035
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-16T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4582,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ID": 4582,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 191175,
      "EditedText": "My only concern is that I do not want to miss the committee. I was wondering whether someone from the disability issues group might be interested, or whether we should approach Bob Benson to ask whether he could give us a summary of the issues. Circulating a summary to all members of the committee might be better than one committee member going along and missing our meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 665778,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your comprehensive introduction, which answered the first question that I was going to ask. Your submission stressed the importance of Scottish scenery and its contribution to the quality of life in Scotland. Do you have a view about its importance to the economic prosperity of Scotland? What kind of relationship does the telecommunications infrastructure have with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 665779,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to pin down the specific impact of telecommunications development. It is a contributory factor to what may be a decline in that resource. We know from past surveys that about 83 per cent of visitors to Scotland identify the scenery as a prime attraction—it is a big draw. Tourism supports a large number of jobs, particularly in rural areas, and that industry is becoming increasingly competitive worldwide. It is becoming more difficult to secure a market, let alone expand a market.There is evidence that tourists, especially foreign tourists, are becoming increasingly discriminating. In Europe, people have become accustomed to high environmental standards and so it is important that we do not degrade the environment. There is no doubt that the qualities of seeming unspoiltness, remoteness and tranquility form a part of Scotland's appeal as a holiday destination.The emergence of many masts in prominent positions could have a significant impact on that. It would be difficult to state the case more strongly than that, but such masts contribute to people's feeling that this is not an unspoilt country but a country where people do not care about developments. Many of the people who visit would, no doubt, want to use mobile phones—they are not necessarily fleeing from the mobile phone. Many of them would, however, expect sensitivity to be shown in the way in which the infrastructure of mobile telephony is put in place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks (Scottish Natural Heritage): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 665783,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, did you say paragraph 9?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 665784,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The sentence reads: \"Yet these safeguards themselves are notably deficient in a number of aspects\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 665785,
      "EditedText": "We are concerned about the fact that the final decision on a large number of applications is made by the operator, especially in relation to the 28-day notification period in the licence. The operators are required to take on board certain conditions that have been suggested by the local authority. However local authorities have said, in our discussions with them, that they feel that their hands are tied—if the operator wants to go ahead, it, rather than the local authority, determines the final decision. That mixes the roles of regulator and regulated. We are also concerned about the safeguards that we identified for certain designated areas, which are limited to a few sensitive sites, such as national scenic areas, the national nature reserves and the sites of special scientific interest. SNH has a clear role in final decisions—which are subject to appeal to the Scottish ministers—on such sites but there are other sensitive areas where this relatively weak 28-day procedure favours the operator. We have highlighted areas such as regional parks and country parks, and areas of great landscape value, which have been awarded their designations because of their sensitivity—where a strong bias in the system favours the operator, who has the final say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 665786,
      "EditedText": "You seem to imply that the deficiencies are more to do with lack of planning control than with licences."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 665789,
      "EditedText": "If applications fell within the full planning regime, the planning authority would have a stronger role and would be clearer about the extent to which it could influence such applications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 665793,
      "EditedText": "So your point is that there is an absence of regulation. What are the practical consequences of the deficiencies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 665794,
      "EditedText": "I can offer some examples. As John mentioned in his introduction, it is rarely the case that a compromise cannot be found—that the telecommunications operators cannot site a mast that meets both their requirements and the natural heritage concerns that must be addressed. I give as an example a case that involved a full planning application because it was in a national scenic area. SNH objected to the application and the reporter found in favour of our position—the planning authority refused planning consent. It was found that the operator had not given due regard to alternative sites and had been strongly influenced by the availability of the one site that had been discussed at an initial stage with the landowner. The operator had discussed the possibility of using alternative sites only with some of the other landowners, not all of them, and had not looked at alternative options—different design of masts and so on—for getting coverage. That is one example where we feel that the environmental considerations were not given due weight in what was a designated area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 665796,
      "EditedText": "The licence requires that alternative sites are considered. What we are saying is no different from what is required under the present system. On paper, it appears that there is an adequate regulatory framework to ensure that operators take environmental considerations on board. However, our experience is different. In some cases the system works and we can resolve the issues, but in many cases a proposal is not acceptable and gives rise to significant concerns, and we have to ask the operators whether they have looked at alternatives x, y and z. That debate is all part of the process. However, we feel that the operators are not, from the start, taking the environmental considerations seriously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 665799,
      "EditedText": "Does the licence require an operator to go through this process with the local authority?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 665801,
      "EditedText": "I would like to probe more deeply into the issue of prior approval vis-à-vis full planning control. I think that John Thomson said that a prior approval system would simply confuse things still further. Both prior approval and full planning control can be based on a policy framework, and would seem, to the layman, to offer broadly the same sort of context. What are the differences between those two alternatives in practice? Can you give some examples of your concerns over the prior approval option? I understand that you prefer full planning control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 665806,
      "EditedText": "There has to be a national policy framework. It would not make sense to have a national plan in terms of a map that identified sites. The density of coverage that is required does not lend itself to that approach. A national policy framework would need to have the scope for a more strategic approach at a local authority level. An authority area as large as that of Highland Council might need to be broken down.An attempt was made to follow that approach in the Highlands and Islands. There was a useful dialogue, although the outcome was not entirely satisfactory from our point of view, which reflected the weakness of environmental and other interests in relation to the interests of the developers. Simon Brooks was involved in that process and he might have something to say about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 665808,
      "EditedText": "Would you like more enforcement of that within a national framework?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 665810,
      "EditedText": "From what you have said—and by the very nature of what you do—you obviously feel that there are sensitive locations in which we should not put such developments. How would you define them, and what do you think should be the criteria for definition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 665814,
      "EditedText": "In the case that went to appeal, the reporter concluded that, given the area's significance, the operator should have treated that mast site as a special case. The issue is the sensitivity with which the operator treats those concerns. To give perhaps a perverse example, one operator went for a location outwith a designated site; unfortunately, the site that was chosen was visually intrusive. In that case, we were more keen for the operator to move the site down the hillside into the national nature reserve, to reduce the visual intrusiveness. We need to be aware that designated sites represent only a broad-brush approach; they indicate sensitivity, but do not provide a blueprint."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 665815,
      "EditedText": "I would like to put you briefly on the spot. Would you like to see some sites designated nationally as: \"No masts are going here, developers, so there is no point in applying\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 665816,
      "EditedText": "No, we would not like to go that far. Whereas, for example, ecological interests can be very site specific and small scale, sensitive landscapes tend to be much larger and it would be wrong to refuse any telecommunications development in those areas. We need to make it clear that certain areas are sensitive and that developers should take particular care about the design of sites in such areas. That requires consultation with the local authority and the relevant statutory bodies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 665828,
      "EditedText": "British Telecommunications and Mercury Communications are mentioned in that circular. I am not sure whether it was envisaged in 1985 that the industry would grow at such an exponential rate. There has been a follow-up circular, but the profession has not found it particularly helpful in dealing with the health issue. There is a great deal of confusion and uncertainty in the minds of local residents about whether health should be a material consideration. There is a crying need for national guidance. Work was done on that prior to the Scottish Parliament coming into being, so there is guidance in waiting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 665829,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the prior approval procedures in England and Wales and suggested that some aspects were not working successfully. Which aspects would it not be appropriate to replicate here?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross (Royal Town Planning Institute in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 665825,
      "EditedText": "The committee helpfully listed some issues for us to consider. As an introduction, I will comment on them from the perspective of a local authority inspector who has frequent meetings with mast operators and is asked to make judgments on pre-application negotiations and so on.The first issue that was raised by the committee was the effectiveness of current planning policy for telecommunications. It is perceived as being weak. As Graham said, there is not sufficient national planning policy guidance. The Scottish Office development department circular 25/1985 has not responded to modern concerns. Telecommunications is a competitive, growth industry. That was not anticipated back in 1985.Class 67 of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (Scotland) Order 1992 is regarded by experienced officers and members, and certainly by members of the public, as complex, confusing and sometimes difficult to understand. People ask councils why they have to apply for planning permission to change their window or erect a garden shed, but a mast up to 15 m high can appear in their view without warning. The obligation for prior notification—if that is the right term—under the code for operators is useful. However, ultimately, it is the operators' decision—taking into account planning and the cost-effectiveness and reasonableness of what the authority asks them to do—so planning officers and members may feel helpless.The second issue raised by the committee was the effectiveness of prior approval procedures, into which the Scottish Office research unit carried out research in 1998. In answering your questions, I will be happy to discuss the research findings.There are three categories of prior approval: for agricultural developments; for forestry developments; and for the demolition of residential buildings. The profession is sceptical about the effectiveness of those prior approval arrangements, particularly for the demolition of residential buildings. It was a confusing path that led to the present arrangements, which are only rarely used.The difficulty with a local authority prior approval mechanism is deciding the circumstances in which we ask for an application. Members and the public would have to understand the basis for such a mechanism. It would have to be founded on clear planning principles that are devised locally, and on criteria that can be explained as material considerations. Those principles and criteria would inevitably vary from authority to authority. If a mechanism were to be implemented through local structure plans, the difficulty would be that such plans tend to be unwieldy and long-winded and can take a number of years to be approved or adopted. Non-statutory guidelines are, perhaps, a better option, although for them to have any weight, there would have to be local consultation.The third issue raised by the committee was the policy basis for planning for telecommunications. There should be better communication with and understanding of the industry, and strategy should be planned ahead. My authority has embarked on a methodology for that, which I would be happy to share with the committee as a guide to best practice. The next issue is the relationship between the local planning authorities and the operators. My experience of the past weeks and months has led me to believe that there is genuine willingness among operators and the consultants who act for them—particularly those with a remit for planning and chartered surveyors—to understand the planners' point of view and local concerns, and to consider the options. That dialogue can be quite fruitful. The bottom line, however, is the 15 m rule and the related complexities of the permitted development orders. The setting of parameters for material planning considerations was one of the final issues raised by the committee and is linked to the previous issue of visual impact and the effect on local amenities. Many masts are in sight of residential property, and the public are concerned about how they look. National planning policy guideline 1, together with a commentary from planning lawyers, give a fairly comprehensive list of what constitutes a material planning consideration that must be taken into account when determining planning applications. The list includes local amenity, visual amenity, noise and siting.I am happy to answer any questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 665826,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for those comprehensive opening remarks. Are there any questions?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 665833,
      "EditedText": "I am not a town planner, so I would like to clarify what you have said. It seems that you are suggesting that a code of practice is not acceptable and that prior approval has problems. Are we veering towards a non-statutory guideline system that will beef up prior approval or change it in some way, or should there be statutory guidelines?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 665837,
      "EditedText": "If we go for full planning control and we do not have consistent application of the guidelines, could that make the situation worse?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 665851,
      "EditedText": "You began to answer the next question that I was going to ask. What would it take for health to become a material consideration?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 665856,
      "EditedText": "I think that they are. My discussions with them are only partially complete. It seems that consultants who appreciate the local authority's point of view might advise the operators.There have been developments in the design of the apparatus and there is a need for the control side to be involved in that. We need to learn about the technical aspects of the design. We should ask for a package of information in the assessment period. That might include a justification of why a particular rollout design is technically required, under other legislative obligations. We should also know why they have gone for a particular design: what are the alternatives and why have they been ruled out? We need to know whether they have considered other locations that might be better suited in environmental terms. Finally, we need to know if they are aware of the rollout programmes of other operators, so that they can at least investigate mast or apparatus sharing. We need to know how technology is developing in order to reduce the scale of such programmes.The objective is to agree a code, through persuasion and negotiation. That is the theory, and we are making every effort to see that delivered in practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 665862,
      "EditedText": "I think that the term \"local politics\" was used, rather than \"local policies\", but the planning control process is a quasi-judicial process into which party politics should not enter. Decisions should be made on the basis of sound planning judgment and policies and other material planning considerations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 665865,
      "EditedText": "I thank you, Graham and Iain, for coming.I invite the representatives from Friends of the Earth Scotland to come to the table. We appear to have one half of a double act. Where is Graeme McAlister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Dixon (Friends of the Earth Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 665866,
      "EditedText": "Graeme has popped out to the loo."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 665867,
      "EditedText": "He is a fortunate man. I do not have the opportunity to do that.Will you make the opening statement in the absence of Graeme?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dixon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 665868,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I am Dr Richard Dixon, head of research with Friends of the Earth Scotland. I am glad to be here today and I am glad that you are considering this issue. My role today is to introduce my organisation and Graeme, who will answer most of your questions. I might answer a few questions myself.I will introduce Friends of the Earth Scotland as this is the first time that we have appeared before an inquiry. We like to think that we are the leading environmental campaigning charity in Scotland. We have 5,000 members and many more supporters. We have about 10 groups around Scotland that work on local issues and some of the issues that concern us nationally.One of our key ideas is to interpret science into policy. My role as head of research is to consider science that is emerging, sometimes in quite obscure places, and to examine what that might mean for us in Scotland. We will then try to develop a policy response.That led us to consider the issue that is under discussion today. About 18 months ago, we decided that there might be a health issue related to telecommunications masts. I asked Graeme McAlister to find out what the international research was saying. Some studies suggested that there was no problem, but others suggested that there was a significant problem. We decided to adopt a precautionary approach to the issue as it might have serious implications for health. The precautionary principle is important to us, but we do not feel that it has its full place in policy making in the UK. I cannot think of a committee of this Parliament that should be keener on the precautionary principle than this one. The message that we will be giving you today is that this should be the home of the precautionary approach.We decided to put the research that we had gathered together into a briefing to try to help communities that had problems either with existing or with proposed masts. We have been working constructively with local authorities. They feel that there has been a lack of direction from Government. The RTPI evidence this morning seemed to confirm that.I ask Graeme McAlister to make some further introductory remarks and indicate some of the ways forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister (Friends of the Earth Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 665869,
      "EditedText": "We realise that the most interesting part of any meeting is when committee members can ask questions. With that in mind, I will try to keep my presentation as short as is humanly possible.When we first became involved in this area of work, we decided to carry out a survey of all 32 Scottish local authorities to try to determine how the issue was being dealt with nationally. Our main reason for doing that was that there appeared to be great differences in application locally. Some local authorities had already introduced precautionary policies to prevent masts being sited on schools or in residential areas, others appeared to be pursuing lease agreements with mobile telephone network operators.When we carried out our survey last autumn, we determined that, for health reasons, three local authorities had adopted precautionary policies and that three more were developing such policies. We are now in an unprecedented position; 16 of the 32 local authorities—50 per cent—have felt compelled to introduce policies independently of Government advice. Those authorities perceive a complete lack of regulation and official guidance, particularly with respect to health.The main reason we became involved was that members of the public were concerned that they could not raise objections based on health grounds. Despite the existence of three Government consultation papers last year, health was still not deemed to be a planning consideration. As a result of working closely with local authorities, we became aware that planning staff felt similarly frustrated—they were unable to hear objections raised on health grounds and the public wanted them to be able to do that. An untenable situation developed, which has resulted in the present position.There are a number of points in our submission that we see as the way forward. We share the concerns of the Royal Town Planning Institute and Scottish Natural Heritage that permitted development rights are not working to protect the public interest with regard to health. We ask that the committee suggest taking transmitter developments out of the system of permitted development rights and making them subject to full planning control. In that way, the public would have access to adequate consultation and the planning departments would have the control that they clearly need. We also urge the committee at least to examine the idea of introducing health as a material planning consideration. If that is not done, we will get no further forward.We are in the current position because members of the public cannot have objections that are based on health grounds heard. That must change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dixon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 665877,
      "EditedText": "Our response is quite simple: our view is common sense. We are not saying that we cannot have mobile phones, pagers, e-mail, faxes or access to the internet; we are saying that because there are serious concerns, we must play safe in the short term until we are sure about the placement of masts. We will still have masts, but we have to resolve where they will be located and whether there will be a few big masts or a lot of small ones. There may also be a way to ensure that there is more sharing. Graeme may want to say more about that. We are not saying that we cannot have the technology or that Scottish businessmen cannot use their mobile phones. We recognise that the technology is here to stay and that it is on a sharply rising curve, but we should have guidelines that ensure that we can play safe when we put up masts. All we are saying is that we should put them in the planning system and keep them away from sensitive individuals—but we should certainly embrace the technology."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 665872,
      "EditedText": "Perth and Kinross is the only council where that broad approach is being taken. I understand from your research that that was not the case with other local authorities, which are considering what they can do with their own buildings and other assets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 665873,
      "EditedText": "Because of the permitted development rights system, local authorities are technically powerless to stop masts under 15 m being erected on private land close to their properties. Their only power is to say, \"As an individual local authority, we are not willing to enter into commercial lease agreements to site masts on our own property.\" They are creating a precedent. They are powerless to extend that to the full planning process until the Government issues some clear guidance. That is why Perth and Kinross is leading the way, and recognising that we must attempt to change the planning system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dixon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 665883,
      "EditedText": "That is right: we need a central framework that makes those decisions, but the issue will eventually rest with a planning committee that is sitting in a room, listening to two sides. If that committee does not make the decision, the debate will be conducted in the press and communities will feel that their concerns are not being taken up. It would be much better to have that discussion in the planning committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 665884,
      "EditedText": "The other concern is that the NRPB is approaching the issue from a scientific angle. Science requires 100 per cent categorical proof of change before it will recognise it. The precautionary principle is completely different, and is alien to many scientists. Many scientists feel that it is a threat to science, because the precautionary principle says, \"Wait a minute. We do not have to wait for 100 per cent categorical scientific proof before we act.\" The precautionary principle states that when significant, but not yet categorical, scientific evidence emerges, we can take a more precautionary approach—we do not have to wait for 100 per cent proof. Take, for example, the tobacco debate. For decades, scientists knew that there was a link between smoking and cancer, and they were trying to prove it. It takes a long time to obtain 100 per cent scientific proof. We are not saying anything radical. We are saying that sufficient scientific evidence of a potential problem is emerging to suggest that we should be taking precaution. As I said, there is a problem when a scientific body is charged with monitoring that. We have written to the NRPB, which recognises that a precautionary approach takes more into account than a purely scientific approach. It is a societal decision: we must decide what is an acceptable level of risk; we must take into account potential health implications. We cannot realistically expect scientists to do that. In 10 or 20 years' time, there could still be two groups of scientists that publish studies with contradictory results. It takes a long time to achieve scientific consensus.To all intents and purposes, the one group of people who are being forgotten about are the public. The public do not know what is going on. The industry in the US now uses the term post-market surveillance to describe the monitoring of the effect of this technology on the public health.The public are being exposed to a large-scale trial; we are simply saying that slightly more caution should be exercised. Health committees would have to consider the matter from a medical as well as a scientific point of view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 665886,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I should confess my interest in porches and telecommunications masts. As I said earlier, I do not have experience of serving on a planning committee; perhaps that is why I ask that kind of question.Your submission mentions the reduction in exposure levels by a factor of five. What impact will that have on the siting and enclosure of existing and future telecoms developments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 665893,
      "EditedText": "No, we feel that it would be completely inadequate. The main weakness in the prior approval procedure, as put forward by the Executive, is that it is a discretionary system. The term prior approval is suggestive of greater public consultation, but in essence all that will happen is that the mobile phone network operators will give written notice to planning authorities of their intention to locate a mast. During the first period of that two-stage procedure, it will be up to individual planning authorities to decide whether the mast is likely to be in a contentious area. If they think that the application should be advertised, they can do so. However, we will just have the same piecemeal approach that exists at the moment, and there will be inconsistencies across the country. Some authorities feel strongly about that; others do not. We feel that prior approval does not address the issue; full planning control is needed, so that the public can be involved in proper consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 665905,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dixon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 665898,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Graeme that those experts should be sitting round the table. Local authorities should certainly be included in discussions as they appreciate the difficulties of administering the process and know what such measures mean in their own rural or urban areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 665900,
      "EditedText": "Is the industry happy with Dundee City Council's co-operation? Furthermore, is the network there developing in the way that the industry wants?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 665902,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that many of your comments—however interesting—go a wee bit beyond the remit of our inquiry, which is planning oriented. If we were to recommend the introduction of a full planning regime and our recommendation were accepted, and if due recognition were to be paid to health issues, would that resolve the situation, or should further areas be pursued? Do you think that the full planning regime is adequate? This is an opportunity for you to say anything that you think is pertinent on planning regulations."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665903",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 665903,
      "EditedText": "I apologise if the discussion on roaming did not appear to be pertinent, but we feel that it is very much within the remit of the Transport and the Environment Committee's inquiry. It is in the committee's remit to make recommendations to Westminster or to the independent expert group on mobile phones, which will hold a public meeting in Edinburgh on Thursday evening and a closed session for evidence on Friday, to which we have been invited. A number of inquiries are going on and all the problems could be addressed before the new licences are issued, which will have a direct bearing on the planning system in Scotland. Where will the new masts be sited? If such problems are not addressed now, we will have a fifth set of masts and the planning system will become overloaded. We believe that roaming is a planning issue.  With regard to how the planning system handles the situation, we believe that full planning control is the way forward. However, if we go down that path, the issue of health must be addressed as well, by taking into account potential health implications as a material planning consideration. If that is not done, we will be no further forward than we are today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 665909,
      "EditedText": "Could you also clarify your position on industrial sites, where you said that it might be appropriate to erect larger masts that can send signals further? What about employees and others who spend eight, 10 or 12 hours a day on industrial sites?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 665912,
      "EditedText": "The main reason for that distinction is that in residential areas people are exposed to emissions from masts 24 hours a day. Although there are similar concerns over working environments in industrial and office areas, we have to take some initial action and develop it from there—that is our interim approach. We are trying to eliminate what we consider to be worst cases—schools and residential areas. We will gradually reduce exposure to emissions by doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 665913,
      "EditedText": "One factor to consider is the topography of an area. Whether people are at home or at work—this goes back to what you said about thermal and non-thermal aspects—what we are concerned about is the length of absorption. For example, there will be particular health issues for a pensioner in a high-rise flat who is sitting at the level at which signals are being transmitted. That raises the issue of trying to remove clusters of masts. If clusters of masts are all directing signals at the same places, the intensity is multiplied."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665914",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 665914,
      "EditedText": "The NRPB recognises that there is a cumulative effect. The problem is that, in its view, the non-thermal effect is so negligible that even when it builds up, it is almost immaterial.A person in a high-rise flat who lives directly underneath a transmitter will be slightly safer if the beam goes out horizontally. Our main concern about high-rise flats relates to the close proximity—perhaps only 60 m or 70 m—to each other of blocks of flats in parts of Glasgow, Edinburgh and other cities where there is a high concentration of blocks of flats. Therefore, the transmitter mast on top of one block beams directly into the top few floors of the block opposite for up to 24 hours a day. That is why we are concerned. The cumulative effects must be taken into account, but until the Government and the NRPB recognise the low-level effects, that is difficult. Although the report of the Select Committee on Science and Technology concluded that the problem was not the masts, it said that there was some suggestive evidence and that the matter required more research. However, of most concern to us is the concluding paragraph, which states that the research programme in the United Kingdom is completely inadequate to underpin the policy decisions that have been made. From our point of view, that invalidates much of the work that has been done and shows that much more research must be done urgently. It is a sad state of affairs if our own research programme cannot underpin the policy decisions that have been made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 665917,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming along. It has been a most interesting session. We appreciate your taking time out to speak to us. We will now take evidence from a panel representing local and community interests. I welcome Mr and Mrs Sinclair from Kinross, Mr Wishart and Ms Stevenson from the Edinburgh Tenants Federation and Ms McLeish from the National Union of Journalists in Aberdeen. We appreciate the fact that a number of you have travelled some distance to come to speak to us. We are keen to hear your views. All members of the committee have been approached by organisations in our communities about the issue. It will be good to hear the community viewpoint. We received an enormous response to our written consultation exercise. We thought that it would be appropriate to invite people who are in the front line to discuss the issue with us and to tell us their views. I am Andy Kerr, convener of the committee. The other members have nameplates, which will save having a long introduction. I will say simply that the committee is pleased that you are here. It would be good if you could take a couple of minutes each to give an overview of your involvement in the process. I will start with Andy Wishart. The committee will then ask questions about the written evidence that you submitted and your presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 665919,
      "EditedText": "Betty, are you happy with what Andy said?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665923",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3967
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 665923,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for giving us that evidence. It is most appreciated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wishart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 665927,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It was not very well publicised."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wishart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 665929,
      "EditedText": "The industry put a glossy brochure through every door in the high-rise block, which said that there was to be a meeting to address the issue. I raised the issue with my residents association because of the way I felt about it, but a lot of applications have been nodded through by one person attending a meeting and agreeing that a mast should be put up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665936",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 665936,
      "EditedText": "Given the time scale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 665940,
      "EditedText": "I frequently meet people who tell me that local communities, even when they have to apply for planning permission, do not always feel fully involved. You are advocating a requirement for full planning permission. Would that be enough from the community's point of view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665942",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 665942,
      "EditedText": "Are you suggesting that you want a method by which the people most directly affected can fight such situations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 665944,
      "EditedText": "I would like some further clarification from Mrs Sinclair—I forget your first name."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665953",
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 665953,
      "EditedText": "I have friends in Beechgrove Terrace—they are going to start ducking below their windows when I come round. I would like to ask Jean McLeish whether the BBC employees have been consulted. Do you know any details of the strength of the emissions of the mast, the direction of the cone or any such information?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665956",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jean McLeish: ",
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      "ContributionID": 665956,
      "EditedText": "We have not moved into the building yet and are in negotiation. The matter is being treated seriously at the moment."
    },
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  {
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elsa Sinclair: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 665961,
      "EditedText": "All masts should have planning permission. We are heavily involved in the aesthetic value of our countryside—it is important. We know that mobile phones are needed—they are marvellous for allowing women to feel secure on their own in a car at night. Going around the countryside—we came back from Gloucester on Monday—one sees mobile phone masts everywhere. They spoil Scotland and the rest of the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 25737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ID": 25737,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 665967,
      "EditedText": "I just want a bit of clarification. A few meetings ago, we talked about prior approval. It was suggested that the Executive was already working on a form of prior approval wording. Where has that now gone? Is it being postponed, put on hold or—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 25737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ID": 25737,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 665970,
      "EditedText": "Yes but, to be fair, the minister is also well apprised of the committee's work. I therefore imagine that the timings will coincide with our deliberations.John Gunstone is hiding at the back there. Perhaps Linda could have a word with him after the meeting. I close the meeting and thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 10 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 665774,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the public meeting at 09:37"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 665777,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, John. I shall open up the discussion to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 665780,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. You said that you felt that the regulations were complex. What are their specific deficiencies in that regard?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 665788,
      "EditedText": "I am not very clear about your answer. Are you saying that it appears that planning considerations—if they apply—and licence conditions regulate the environmental impact of the operator's licence to develop? You seem to suggest that there are deficiencies on the development side of the issue. What impact would there be if planning regulations applied?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 665795,
      "EditedText": "You are seeking to apply a fairly burdensome standard. A standard that tests alternative locations and puts a burden of proof on the applicant is the sort of standard that is applied to a major strategic location, such as a major land release in an urban setting. It is not really a standard that would be applied to development and control, which tend to be more reactive. Would a system of development and control for masts really lend itself to choosing between disputing sites or demanding that the applicant consider other sites? That is likely to be a time-consuming, expensive and burdensome process, both for the applicant and for the local authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 665802,
      "EditedText": "I think that I said that prior approval seemed a rather unsatisfactory halfway house. What happens if the local authority objects because it is not happy with a particular proposal? The developer does not require planning permission, so he is not actually being refused permission by the local authority—he seems to be in some sort of limbo. A similar system has been in place for some time for agricultural buildings. That bears out the point—you create a limbo and nobody quite knows what they can do. One of the effects of that is to discourage local authorities from taking the issue seriously, because, at the end of the day, they are not the decision makers.The proposal seems rather odd to us. We are aware that such a regime has existed south of the border for some time. We do not have detailed knowledge of how it has worked there, but it seems inherently odd if the outcome can be uncertainty all round. It is much better to have a certain outcome and, in the long term, a clearer and more definite system is likely to be in everyone's interest. In my experience, developers like to know where they stand in the system within which they are operating; they do not want to be confronted with uncertainty.A clear-cut extension of planning control would provide some certainty. I take your earlier points about the costs of searching for appropriate sites and so on. However, the extension of planning control would also encourage a more strategic approach on the part of the developers. They would sit down and try to work out what sites they would need in order to secure adequate coverage. They might then discuss that with the local authority at some length. The local authority would consult SNH and other relevant statutory bodies. It might be possible, not to give a blanket approval, but to allow the developer to go forward with individual applications, with the strong expectation that there would be no opposition to them. That seems to me to be a better way forward than the current system of dealing with individual cases, with all the possibility of delay and hassle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 665805,
      "EditedText": "From what you have said, it is clear that you do not feel that the current planning system is sufficiently flexible. In answer to Murray Tosh's question, you said that the developers should have a national perspective. Do you think that planning should take a national perspective, rather than a local one? Should a national plan be introduced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 665809,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 665811,
      "EditedText": "The first sift is the designation system. The sensitivities might be different between national scenic areas, national nature reserves and sites of special scientific interest. They are ecological rather than landscape sensitivities. At the local level, we have areas of great landscape value. The Government had indicated that it would like to see further refinement and rationalisation of that system of national and local landscape designations. That system provides a basic sensitivity test, but we need to go beyond that with this sort of development. There are quite detailed locational issues, which can probably be described in broad terms as avoiding certain types of location and choosing others. However, that can take us only so far and, in many cases, the sharing of sites and infrastructure could significantly reduce impact. There are ways in which key sensitivities—on both the designated sites and the types of location—can be highlighted. Beyond that, there has to be some sort of dialogue, and we are willing to enter into that dialogue. The question is how earnestly the developers will enter into that dialogue, which is where the underlying regulatory framework is important. If developers feel that they need those discussions and that they have to find mutually acceptable proposals, those discussions will happen. However, that necessary balanced dialogue will not happen if developers feel that they are going through the exercise on sufferance and that the need to expand the telecommunications system will prevail anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 665812,
      "EditedText": "If you manage to define those sensitive locations, will the rigour with which the planning process is applied in such areas be any different?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 665818,
      "EditedText": "One of the underlying themes of our submission is that, on paper, the regulatory system looks great. We have had many positive discussions with operators, which seem to be taking our concerns on board. However, in practice, things do not turn out as they should.Many times, we have agreed on a site outwith a designated area, and have asked the operators not to encroach on that area, only to come along when the mast is being installed to find that, because there has been sloppy management, the operators have encroached on the site and caused damage. We may have agreed to the undergrounding of power lines to sites, which have not been undergrounded. There are many such examples, and it is the detail of the practice that is important. We always feel quite positive after meetings with the operators. However, after the past four or five years, during which time we have had much involvement with them, we are more cautious in believing that they will keep their promises."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 665823,
      "EditedText": "Members have no more questions. I thank John and Simon for attending the meeting. The discussion has been most interesting, and I thank them for the straightforward answers that they gave.We will now take evidence from the Royal Town Planning Institute in Scotland. I understand that Graham U'ren is here in addition to Iain Ross. I ask them to join the committee. We are in the middle of a series of evidence-gathering sessions on telecommunications. I welcome Iain and Graham. You have the chance to make a short opening statement, if you want to do so. We will allow you to do that before members begin to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham U'ren (Royal Town Planning Institute in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 665824,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. We will be brief. Thank you for inviting us. I am the director of the Royal Town Planning Institute in Scotland. Iain Ross is a senior officer for planning in Dundee City Council. I would like to expand on the paper that we have submitted, which I assume that we can take as read. One or two supplementary points might be usefully made. As we tried to point out, we are concerned not only about the close-up problems that arise from telecommunications development, but about the wider picture for the planning system in Scotland. We feel that there should be greater planning control over such developments, but we are aware that there should also be more directional national planning policy guidance to ensure that the needs of the industry are met. The institute accepts that the purpose of the planning system is to ensure that development is delivered to meet the needs of the nation. Nowadays, in the context of sustainable development, that should be consistent with the constraints imposed for environmental or other reasons. There must therefore be a positive view of where we are going in the future.That is not what national planning policy guidance gives us at the moment. In the mid-1970s, Scotland was in the forefront of national planning policy development, and we ought to go back and look at the guidance that was issued then. Although there is still development now, there was a more forward-looking approach in those days. One of the characteristics of those national planning guidelines was that they were accompanied by land use summary sheets. They were purely for information and advice, but they were written by the Government following consultation with the appropriate industry, looking at the needs of the industry in the foreseeable future and setting out a view as to what the demands and pressures would be. For example, there was information on electricity and how the national grid would develop. There are similarities between the electricity and telecommunications industries, because both are covered by a permitted development or deemed approval process. We would commend such an approach, to ensure that additional control was not seen as added regulation or negative development.We have pointed out that the proposed prior approval procedures already exist in relation to agricultural buildings and that application of those procedures across the country is inconsistent and generally disliked by planning authorities. In England and Wales, a prior approval procedure has been introduced for telecommunications developments. When there was consultation on such a scheme last year, our institute indicated that it is opposed to it. Although our information is only anecdotal at this stage, we are maintaining our opposition now that the scheme is in operation. Because the operation of planning control is dependent on secondary legislation—the general permitted development orders—the Welsh Assembly has the power to depart from the England and Wales scheme that is overseen by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions. If it was regulated by primary legislation, the Welsh Assembly could not do that. As it is, Wales could well consider going a different way if it wanted to, just as Scotland can.I have a final quick comment about the health issue. Again, you can see from our paper that we are far from convinced that that is a matter that planning should consider. There are a number of reasons for that view. We are concerned about an example of case law that is quoted in the draft circular on the impacts of electromagnetic fields, which was issued by the Scottish Office last year. It could give the impression that that case law proves the case for including health issues in material planning considerations. The case established that a public perception of significant danger was a material planning issue. We have examined the case closely and we find that that was not the issue that determined the appeal case that went to the House of Lords. It was the case that determined the decision to reject the award of expenses that the inspector had agreed to give.The inspector's view was that the authority had been wrong to take health into account and, by doing so, had created a trumped-up excuse for taking the matter all the way through the appeal process; therefore, expenses should be awarded against the authority. Their lordships said simply that health might have been considered, but they did not say that it was particularly applicable in that case—the argument is that health is not ruled out, but the case does not establish that it is ruled in. There is an important difference. Too much could be founded on that one case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham U’ren: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 665830,
      "EditedText": "I am not certain that there is any difference in the circumstances in the two countries. It boils down to the practicalities of broadly similar planning systems and how they work. We are as concerned as our colleagues down south. They may have a little more experience and are continuing to indicate their concern, particularly regarding local authority planners. Our feeling is that the public do not fully understand how the system operates. At the end of the day, there is an added decision-making element to the process. In the first instance, the authority must decide whether to require an application, rather than saying that everything needs consent. The current regime also allows authorities to decide whether to advertise or notify and whom to consult. In many ways, there is an added part to the process, apart from the fact that a policy framework is also required. At the moment, the Government allows that to be dealt with at local level. Therefore, one authority might be dealing with notifications and deciding whether to take applications on different criteria from the authority next door."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 665836,
      "EditedText": "We are worried not so much about the inconsistency as about the lack of clarity and specificity in what is available to planning authorities at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 665842,
      "EditedText": "Although the authority is still to receive the report, I would recommend a period of public consultation on the guidelines, so that any interested party, such as community councils and the industry, can have an input."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 665843,
      "EditedText": "You have begun to answer my next question. I believe that the Scottish Executive is currently reviewing the national land use planning guidelines. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 665845,
      "EditedText": "How would a more flexible national planning framework, taking ease of telecommunications development into account, cascade down into other parts of the planning system to structure plans and local plans which operate on longer time frames?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 665847,
      "EditedText": "How long will those negotiation talks go on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham U’ren: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 665848,
      "EditedText": "We hope to produce information that will be a useful input into the next programme of development from the Scottish Executive on the planning system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 665850,
      "EditedText": "Authorities are obliged, under section 25 of the Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997, to determine planning applications in accordance with the development plan, that is, the structure plan and local plan in force at the time, and other material planning considerations.Those considerations are listed in paragraph 43 of NPPG 1, \"The Planning System\". Since the publication of that document, the list has been developed and commented on by planning lawyers, in particular Neil Collar in his book on planning law and procedure.The material considerations are listed as follows. First, on Government policy and guidelines, it is necessary to go to the national planning policy guideline series and look for Government statements of policy and circulars under that heading. Secondly, the views of statutory and other consultees must be taken into account. There are statutory consultees that an authority must go to on a planning consultation. There are also other consultees in some instances, such as the Royal Fine Art Commission, the Scottish Executive, the agricultural department and so on. Third, as all applications are exposed to public debate and opinion, those representations from the public must be taken into account as a material consideration.The planning history of a site can have a bearing on the decision. The availability of infrastructure such as drainage works mostly relates to larger developments other than telecommunications. The impact on the locality, including means of access, parking provision, landscaping and overall setting, is a strong material consideration of members in dealing with mass developments. The impact on the natural and built environment relating to the layout, siting, design and external appearance is also relevant to the instances that we are talking about.Another issue is incidental effects relevant to planning. There are codes and legislation, which are related to planning, and the influence on those is a material consideration. The degree to which an unacceptable proposal might be made acceptable by imposing conditions is another aspect of this. The list of material conditions is a fairly long and growing one. On the health issue, it is generally taken by planning officers that that is not a material planning consideration, unless it is in exceptional circumstances as defined in the earlier circular, 25/1985. The outcome of appeals and case law may bear that out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 665853,
      "EditedText": "You have done very well.In the conclusion to your submission you talk about the\"widespread and unsatisfactory visual and local amenity impact of masts\".Can you comment on that with regard to urban areas, and on the longer-term implications of further demands?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 665855,
      "EditedText": "I wish to pursue the definition of \"very useful\". We have had the operators in and they talked about the third generation of mobile phones with faxing and other features that technology can provide and which people want, which is the other side of this matter. From your discussions with the operators, what are they saying about the scope of the rollout? What lessons have they learned from the rollout of phases 1 and 2? Are they being more amenable about the environmental and visual impact of equipment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 665858,
      "EditedText": "I previously mentioned the balance between permitted development and the need for authorities to work hard on devising local circumstances and how to determine planning applications. We are burdened by an ever-increasing work load, but that represents the tip of the iceberg. Much work is done behind the scenes, behind planning applications and pre-application negotiations and discussions, which can bear fruit. That is promoted as good practice. We talk to the applicant before they submit their application.If we build up the good working relationship that both sides appear to want, it will be simpler to process an application when it comes in, given that it was founded on sound local policy. I am not one for decrying the burdens that are placed on planning authorities and officers; it is all in the interests of a better and more sustainable environment. We would bear the burden to secure a better outcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 665859,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that that will be immensely reassuring to all the people we took evidence from last week."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665863",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 665863,
      "EditedText": "Are you satisfied that, if we had a policy platform from which local authorities could operate, the variations between one authority and another that the operators talk about would be resolved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham U’ren: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 665864,
      "EditedText": "We would be quite confident. I am trying to think of an example of a consistent approach being engendered by national policy. When I think of one, I will tell you."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665870",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 665870,
      "EditedText": "I share Murray Tosh's fond memories of planning committees, so I will start with local authorities and the points that Mr McAlister made about 50 per cent of them having adopted precautionary policies. What would you define as precautionary policy, Mr McAlister? How would those policies relate to the authorities' roles as planning authorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 665876,
      "EditedText": "I have not been on a planning committee, so I may be approaching the issue from a slightly different angle. Last week, we heard evidence from the Department of Trade and Industry that suggested that the economy of Scotland will suffer if we cannot compete internationally with a good telecommunications network. You have mentioned the precautionary approach, in general terms and in health terms, but what is your view of the effect on jobs and livelihoods?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665871",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
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      "EditedText": "Local authorities are now coming to us for advice because they want considered, independent advice on the subject. We have passed on to them much detail on published scientific peer-reviewed literature. So far there has not been a record of such material emanating from the National Radiological Protection Board. The main reason for that is the debate that is going on in the international scientific community. Only one possible biological effect that results from exposure to microwave radiation is acknowledged in this country. It is known as the thermal, or heating, effect. It is generally recognised that that effect will tail off 2 m—or 6 ft—from a mast. We do not contest that for one minute. The problem is that in a number of other countries, a second biological effect, known as the non-thermal effect, is recognised. It relates to extremely low levels of microwave radiation emissions that do not even feature in this country's current guidelines. Several other countries have introduced precautionary policies at national or local levels of government because they feel that the non-thermal effect should be recognised and urgently requires further research. Because the current guidelines in the UK relate only to the thermal effect, no account is taken of those low levels of radiation. That is why local authorities are very concerned.Emissions from masts are technically within NRPB guidelines, but as the guidelines do not even relate to the low levels about which we are concerned, I hope that members share the local authorities' concerns. They feel that there is no regulation, clarity or guidance about how to address the issue. There are reputable scientists in other countries who are 100 per cent convinced that the non-thermal effect exists. Local authorities are considering the scientific and medical data and wondering what they can do to give the public some say. The only thing that they can do under the current planning system is advocate a policy for their own land, as landlord or landowner. They are basically setting a precedent, specifying that they will not conclude any lease agreement with network operators for their own property. That specifically concerns schools and residential homes. Local authorities are wanting to extend that to cover tops of high-rise blocks of flats, and they are interested in considering hospitals. I am not sure whether committee members are aware that there is a full meeting of Perth and Kinross Council today to approve a formal planning policy to introduce a precautionary approach into local plans. It would apply to private and council land. The council is aware that the Scottish Executive will attempt to overturn the decision, but the authority is frustrated. It is asking how it is that it will not site masts on its schools, yet an operator may come along and site a mast within 60 m of a school. It feels that that is unacceptable and that its duty as a local authority is to try to take the matter further. Local authorities are trying to introduce such steps into the planning framework, but without clear guidance it will be very difficult to achieve. They are examining a large number of factors and taking informed decisions for introducing policy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 665878,
      "EditedText": "You have already mentioned the health issue and the fact that health has never been a planning consideration. You have mentioned that, in your view, health is an issue that should be considered in connection with telecommunications development. Why should health concerns be addressed through the planning system rather than through other measures such as health and safety legislation or the regulation of telecommunications licensing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 665887,
      "EditedText": "The fairly simple answer is that the reduction will not make a great difference to the operators. Thermal emission levels are well below the maximum level allowed, so in a practical sense there will be no great difference. A few masts around the country might need to be altered slightly.The one thing for which we wanted to applaud the Science and Technology Committee was its recommendation that the level should be revised downwards. Soon after we started researching this area about 18 months ago, we came across a NRPB report on the biological effects of exposure to radio frequency and microwave radiation written by biologists employed by the NRPB. That report specified that there had to be two separate public exposure levels, which were different by a factor of four. The higher level is the current UK level that the select committee suggested should be revised downwards. The report stated that the lower level was required to protect people with compromised health, such as those with thermoregulatory problems, infants, pregnant women and the elderly. That advice was rejected when the guidelines were put in place in 1993. We asked the NRPB why the advice was rejected. Its written reply—I will happily supply a copy to the committee—was that that was the advice of its biologist colleagues. As the report concerned biological effects, we would have thought that biological advice would have been of paramount importance to the NRPB.The material contains a grave number of inconsistencies and contradictions. I am not attacking individuals in the NRPB; I am simply saying that the contradictions give rise to concern. That is why, when the Science and Technology Committee decided to revise the figures downwards, it said that it was taking a precautionary approach although it did not really have a reason for doing so. There are reasons why this has taken place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 665889,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to supply a copy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 665890,
      "EditedText": "My final question has been covered, to an extent, by questions from the convener and others. How should this committee prioritise the health evidence? We will hear much more of that evidence. You have mentioned the difficulties of weighing it up. What should we take into account?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 665894,
      "EditedText": "I read your paper this morning. You suggest that we should pay much closer attention to a whole variety of health risks, and you are looking into the idea of having a cordon sanitaire, or an exclusion zone, around masts. What sort of technical recommendations should the committee be considering? What distance should we specify? Should the distance be the same in different areas? Earlier, the difference between working and residential areas was pointed out. To what extent should we take that into account? Would we find, as we were warned earlier, that if we had blanket cordons sanitaires in built-up areas, it might be difficult to locate masts? We need a bit of a steer on the technical aspects of having cordons sanitaires. How would they work in practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 665897,
      "EditedText": "Would local authorities have a role in determining the extent of the exclusion zones?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dixon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 665908,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Graeme McAlister, but we need to examine the technical issues. The Royal Town Planning Institute in Scotland said earlier that, although mobile phone technology could be included in the full planning system, there might be a case for having delegated powers for minor equipment. When we have examined the technology and seen exactly what people propose to install, it may be that we will agree with that view. It will depend on the level of emissions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 665901,
      "EditedText": "The industry is never happy with any precautionary approach taken by local authorities. Last night, I briefly downloaded the Official Report of last week's meeting of the Transport and the Environment Committee. I was gravely disappointed to find that, despite the presence of three representatives from the Department of Trade and Industry and six representatives from the industry itself, not one person mentioned a concept called roaming, which not only could help to redress some imbalance but could address the problem of geographical black spots where there is no coverage. Roaming could improve coverage to rural areas overnight, if the industry were so minded. The committee may already be familiar with the concept of mast sharing, where part of an operator's mast will be sublet to another operator for its antenna. We find the fact that no one mentioned roaming surprising. In 1997, the DTI's white paper on third-generation mobile licences, which is an issue that we are also discussing today, explored roaming and could find no technical reason why that scheme could not be put into operation. The problem was that there was no commercial inclination to get involved. We will be happy to supply the committee with that paperwork.I will try to give a basic explanation of roaming. Although there are parts of the UK where a person with, for example, an Orange handset will get very good coverage, there are other parts with very poor coverage. However, that does not happen on the continent, as rival operators can access each other's networks. People could use their Orange handsets in an area where Orange has very poor coverage, but where, for example, Cellnet's coverage is very good, and receive a perfectly clear call.Roaming is much more than a concept. On Monday, I glanced briefly at the websites of the four network operators. The icon for roaming is very significant on those sites. It is clear that the operators want people who are going abroad to know about the advantages of roaming. From those websites, I can reveal that Orange has concluded agreements for 166 networks in 87 countries; Cellnet has agreements in more than 100 networks; Mercury One 2 One has 114 networks in 68 countries; and Vodaphone has networks in more than 103 countries.However, in the UK, it seems beyond the four companies to conclude roaming agreements with each other, which would prevent situations such as having four sets of masts in one geographical area. For example, two schools in Edinburgh have two sets of masts from rival operators on their roofs. That does not happen with roaming agreements. Next year, with the auctioning of the third generation of mobile licences, there will be a fifth operator, which might mean a fifth set of masts in certain areas. That will compound the problem.The DTI advocated roaming in a press release earlier this year—I am surprised that the DTI did not mention that interesting development. A fifth operator is to be introduced with the third generation of licences and the DTI decided, in the interests of competition and commercial activity, that it wanted to give that new operator a level playing field. I think that most industry analysts will agree that the four companies that are operating at the moment are likely to regain the licences that they already hold, but there will be a new, fifth company, which the DTI decided would be allowed to use the Mercury One 2 One network. The network took the DTI to the High Court in London and won the case on two counts. First, the network felt that it was being commercially disadvantaged by the DTI's decision to introduce roaming only on its network and not on the other three networks. Secondly, the DTI took that action without prior consultation. As the licences for third-generation mobile phones have not yet been auctioned, the DTI could reassess the situation and introduce roaming as standard for all companies. I had a meeting with the industry in June 1999. We were asked to give a presentation to a House of Commons seminar, which Mr Phil Willis MP sponsored. A number of MPs and senior Government officials were able to come along to the seminar and learn of our concerns. I need to backtrack slightly. Before we went to London for that seminar, 12 local authorities in Scotland had already adopted precautionary policies or had stated that they would develop such policies, although that did not motivate the industry to contact us. However, as soon as it became apparent that we were to be speaking at the House of Commons, we were approached by a lobbyist acting on behalf of Cable and Wireless on a global basis and on behalf of Mercury One 2 One in the UK. At a meeting between representatives of Mercury One 2 One, Orange and Friends of the Earth, we laid our cards on the table, explained our concerns and brought up the subject of roaming. We were met with disbelief—\"What is roaming? Can you explain it to us?\" As can be seen from the companies' websites, roaming is a well-developed concept—the companies are simply not willing to consider that concept in the UK. The companies also said that roaming would cause a capacity problem. If there is to be such a problem, why did the DTI decide to introduce roaming earlier this year, only to be subsequently taken to court by Mercury One 2 One? The problem is the way in which the DTI has tried to apply roaming. It must be done in an even-handed way, to ensure equal commercial competition. We are not trying to stop it as, if roaming was encouraged, the problem of geographical black spots would be resolved and coverage to remote and rural areas would be increased. We are keen for that to happen, as people should not be disadvantaged in that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wishart (Edinburgh Tenants Federation): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 665918,
      "EditedText": "I am involved through the Edinburgh Tenants Federation. In addition, I live in Dumbiedykes where there is a planning application for a transmitter mast on one of the high-rise blocks. Last year, an application was received to install masts on all the high-rise blocks in Edinburgh. Twenty-two blocks in Edinburgh now have masts on them. I was aware that there were implications of living in close proximity to electromagnetic fields and I began to ask questions. Concerns were raised in other areas of Edinburgh, so we started a campaign. We contacted Friends of the Earth and we have started to read the scientific stuff. We have found that there are two opposing opinions on the matter and we have learned some of the implications of the planning restrictions. City of Edinburgh Council currently operates what it calls a precautionary policy, which entails the telecommunications companies making their planning applications and satisfying all the technical stuff. The last stage in the process is the consultation of residents. We are slightly unhappy about that, because it is difficult to get people to turn out for anything and many consultation meetings have not been properly publicised. Edinburgh claims that it has a precautionary policy and that residents have the final say in the matter of masts being erected on buildings. We had a meeting with the council leader in Edinburgh at the end of October. Until then, there had been a moratorium on building masts while the council examined the issues. Acting on what it felt was the best scientific advice, the council decided that it would cease the moratorium and allow Vodaphone to start installing masts on lamp standards in the west end, or disguised as trees. I discovered this morning from the planning applications that Vodaphone is also intending to return to site further masts, particularly in clusters on high-rise blocks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665920",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Betty Stevenson (Edinburgh Tenants Federation): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 665920,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665921",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "ID": 176
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 665921,
      "EditedText": "Mr and Mrs Sinclair, I welcome you to the committee. Would you like to make your presentation now?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665926",
    "Meeting": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 665926,
      "EditedText": "Something you said, Andy, reminded me of an earlier contributor, who argued that the prior approval situation could result in inconsistencies between local authorities. Could Andy Wishart clarify for the committee the level of consultation of residents that was undertaken by the City of Edinburgh Council? I gather that it consisted of a public meeting. Was that the extent of the consultation?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C665935",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 176
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wishart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 665935,
      "EditedText": "That would have been a very difficult task."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665938",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 665938,
      "EditedText": "Do you have a budget for that kind of thing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wishart: ",
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      "ContributionID": 665939,
      "EditedText": "No."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Betty Stevenson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 665941,
      "EditedText": "We are left in the dark about everything. We know nothing until the tenants federation gets in touch with us. We find the information from a wee bit in the newspaper, and we have to jump on it or write to doctors to find out their views. I got the Edinburgh weekly planning list from Andy only this morning, and I am the chairperson of nine blocks—which is a lot. This is a case where my blocks were being affected, but I knew nothing about it until this morning. The area is a few strides away from a primary school, where there are young children."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C665943",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
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      "ID": 176
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Betty Stevenson: ",
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      "ContributionID": 665943,
      "EditedText": "Definitely."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 665946,
      "EditedText": "So it is a double act? Laughter. Can you confirm that there was already a mast and that the company then came along and replaced it? When was the original mast installed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665947",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Sinclair: ",
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      "EditedText": "1985."
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  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665948",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 665948,
      "EditedText": "Is your view that the council mucked up and does not want to admit that it made a mistake? Bill Sinclair indicated agreement."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665949",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 665949,
      "EditedText": "It seems to be a case of planning controls going wrong—the council has mucked up with the planning system."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665950",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Sinclair: ",
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      "EditedText": "We objected to the mast going up in 1985. It was a slim affair, but we objected to it. My solicitor wrote to us to say that he had made objections to the planning people, and was sorry, but the mast was for police communications, and there was nothing that I could do about it. Now, there is a new construction, and it should come under planning regulations."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665955",
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
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      "EditedText": "You do not get any further information than that the emissions are within guidelines."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665963",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Betty Stevenson: ",
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      "ContributionID": 665963,
      "EditedText": "Most of our concerns have been covered, but my main one is health, especially among the many children and older people in high-rise flats. In addition, there are many schools about—the kids are a big worry."
    },
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  {
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wishart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 665964,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the other speakers that there should be rigorous full planning applications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 25737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ID": 25737,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 665966,
      "EditedText": "This instrument was laid on 15 October 1999 and is subject to annulment until 3 December 1999. The Subordinate Legislation Committee considered the order on 27 October and requested that the Executive provide further information, which is attached to our papers today. At its meeting on 2 November, the Subordinate Legislation Committee accepted the points of clarification raised in the Executive response and had no further comment to make. If members wish to follow up the report of that committee, I can advise them of the relevant documents. Is the committee content with the instrument and the briefing note from the Scottish Executive? Are there any matters relating to the instrument that the committee wishes to report to the Parliament? I take it that we are content and that there are no matters to report. That closes the formal part of the meeting. Our next meeting is in the Signet Library, which is adjacent to the Parliament building. We will get a map with our papers to ensure we do not get lost. Please bear that in mind. I appreciate another hard working meeting, which I think has been useful. I hope everybody agrees. I look forward to our next meeting. I therefore formally close the meeting and thank members for their—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andy Kerr): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 665775,
      "EditedText": "I welcome members of the public and of the press and the witnesses who will give evidence this morning. We are examining the implications of planning as part of our inquiry into telecommunications development, and today we will be hearing from Scottish Natural Heritage, the Royal Town Planning Institute in Scotland, Friends of the Earth Scotland and a panel representing local and community interests. I welcome John Thomson and Simon Brooks of Scottish Natural Heritage to the table. We are pleased to see you here this morning. I offer you the chance to make short, introductory remarks, after which members of the committee will ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson (Scottish Natural Heritage): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 665776,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I should say at the outset that we welcome the opportunity to give evidence to the committee and think that this inquiry is timely. We realise that many of the concerns that are prompting the current debate about telecommunications arise from possible health risks, a matter that does not lie within our sphere of responsibility as an organisation. We believe that telecommunications development has an important natural heritage dimension. Our concern is not just about the masts, but about their impact on the landscape and on people's enjoyment of the landscape; we are concerned about the access tracks, the buildings associated with the masts and the power lines that are required. We have been worried for a number of years about the proliferation of that infrastructure across the country and its impact not only on some of our special designated landscapes, but on the countryside as a whole.Our organisation recognises the social and economic benefits that arise from improved communication; we are not trying to frustrate those improvements or deny people the benefits that they bring. However, sustainable development has an environmental strand and we are concerned that that perspective has not been adequately taken into account in the industry's dramatic development in the past couple of decades. I have emphasised the impact on the landscape, but there are also ecological impacts associated with the track infrastructure rather than with the masts themselves. In the attempt to achieve complete, or near complete, coverage, we could end up with man-made intrusions into areas in which there are few other signs of human activity and which are widely viewed as unspoilt areas. Locals often resent the imposition of masts. The presence of that sort of infrastructure can certainly influence people's perception of the quality of the landscape. It may also affect Scotland's appeal as a tourist destination. The presence of masts in some remoter parts of the country can be seen as detracting from the particular qualities of remoteness that people often seek out. Those are the problems. In practice, a mutually acceptable solution can be found in almost every case. A site can be found that is acceptable from a natural heritage standpoint as well as from an operational standpoint. Greater sensitivity on the part of the industry is required, as well as a willingness to share infrastructure. We have identified a problem with the present regulatory regime, which does not adequately encourage that. There are signals in that direction in the licensing regime and in the arrangements for notifying local authorities, but we do not feel that the regulations have enough bite to influence the industry. Furthermore, the regime that has been established is so complex and convoluted that people can easily become lost in it. I do not exclude myself from that number; I find it difficult to get my mind round exactly how the regulatory system is supposed to operate. We feel that the time has come to cut through all the complexities and to rationalise and simplify the system. We should bring the activity within planning control. The planning system has many advantages. It is not just a mechanism for control; it can be a mechanism for guiding through development plans. It is a mechanism for promoting dialogue between the developers and the planning authorities. Also, regardless of its imperfections, it makes provision for community input from the outset.The planning system makes specific provision for the enforcement of any conditions that are imposed on a licence. Until now, there has been a deficiency in that area. There is evidence that the operators have not always adhered to the conditions that local authorities have suggested in a consultation process. I think that that is a thoroughly unhealthy state of affairs. The environmental concerns that underlie our involvement in this area could be better addressed by bringing the development of communications infrastructure under the control of the planning system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 665781,
      "EditedText": "There are some real oddities and anomalies in the regulations. For example, there are differences in the regimes in scenic areas for microwave and non-microwave systems, which means that different mobile phone operators who use different systems are subject to different rules. More generally, there is confusion between the role of the planning system—which kicks in when a mast is higher than 15 m—and the licensing system. There is also confusion about the periods required for notification to be given to local authorities and the periods within which they must respond.We welcome the intention behind the proposals to introduce a prior approval regime for cases with permitted development rights. However, those proposals will serve only to confuse things further. Our instinct is that people recognise that there is a problem; they are trying to tackle the problem, but are avoiding the obvious way of doing so, with the result that the system becomes more confusing and convoluted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 665782,
      "EditedText": "The ninth paragraph of the written submission from Scottish Natural Heritage says that there are deficiencies in the enforcement of environmental safeguards and licences. Although we are familiar with the difficulty of enforcing planning conditions, I wish to pursue the suggestion that licences are difficult to enforce. Can you explain the implementation of the safeguards and illustrate the specific aspects of implementation that cause you concern?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 665787,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry—I am not clear about your point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 665790,
      "EditedText": "In cases where planning permission is not required and where special sites are not involved, the system is self-regulating. Although local authorities can suggest amendments and conditions, it is up to the developer to decide whether to adopt and comply with those suggestions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 665791,
      "EditedText": "So no one has a duty to monitor the application of the licence and to assess whether the developer has complied with the environmental safeguards in the licence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 665792,
      "EditedText": "Our understanding is that the director-general of telecommunications does not have that role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 665797,
      "EditedText": "So, under the licence, the developer is supposed to be looking at specific locations, and the alternatives, with a view to justifying them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 665798,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is a condition in the telecommunications code."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 665800,
      "EditedText": "Yes, or, in some cases, with Scottish Natural Heritage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 665803,
      "EditedText": "You have said twice that it would almost always be possible to find a mutually acceptable site. There must be circumstances where that will not happen. In the regime that you propose, how do you see the conflict being resolved when the developer and the local authority cannot or will not agree? Should the matter be resolved through the appeals process or should there be some other way of breaking the deadlock? There will be some conflict between good planning and the desire to develop the network."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 665804,
      "EditedText": "The appeals system is well-established as the means of resolving such conflicts, as it enables a national perspective to be brought to bear. One of the developers' arguments is that we need to take such a perspective—the appeal mechanism provides the scope for that. I agree that, occasionally, there will be such cases, but SNH would find it surprising—other interests may have different views—if there were many of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 665807,
      "EditedText": "The Highlands and Islands is the largest area in which we have tried to take a joint approach, in terms of seeking European funding. One of the frustrating things that we and the planners—and from reading the press, local communities—found was that at the same time as we were having what were often useful discussions with the two joint developers, under the objective 1 project for masts, one of the other operators was developing its own sites. Although we encouraged the operators to talk to each other, we learned some lessons about persuading them to agree to combined sites. A planning framework had been set up and the intention was there, but that was not always successful in practice, when we were dealing with the different operators. Another example is Loch Lomond, where at an early stage we managed to discuss quite a sensitive site with the operator that first came to us. We got the other operators to consider whether they could utilise that site to minimise the number of masts and eventually managed to get three of the operators to use it. They recognised the environmental sensitivities and were willing to accept a slighter lower coverage of the area, but one of the operators was still keen to go to another site that was of more concern to us. The planning framework exists and we tried to put it in place to cover the area, but ultimately we still rely on the operators agreeing to work together more positively. To return to the question about whether there are sites that would not be acceptable, it is a matter of whether the operators will accept lower coverage. It is not a case of their having no coverage, but a case of the level of coverage that they are willing to accept. The operator that insisted on going to the other site was clear that it was not willing to accept the level of coverage that the other three operators accepted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 665813,
      "EditedText": "The process will not necessarily be any different. The planning system will be extended to all applications. However, the bodies involved in the process might be different. For example, we would expect to be involved in any site located in a national scenic area. Although the process will not be any different, the tests of what is environmentally acceptable will be stricter in the more sensitive sites. That is a standard part of the planning system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 665817,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that you have already answered my last question. We have had submissions from developers that have made great play of the fact that they are environmentally friendly. Furthermore, they have provided documents as proof of that. What weight do you give to such claims?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 665819,
      "EditedText": "There are differences within the industry, although I do not want to name anyone specifically. Some operators are more cavalier than others. The problem is that, if there is not a strong regulatory system that bites, the matter is left in the hands of—perhaps calling them cowboys is going too far—the more cavalier operators. The other competitors then feel that they will lose out if they do not behave in the same way. That is the problem that we face. There are many good intentions and there is a lot of hype about those good intentions, but they are not always translated into practice, as Simon said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 665820,
      "EditedText": "I return to something that you said earlier, to make it clear in my mind. Some operators will—to put it bluntly—push their luck. They will try to obtain the best site in the full knowledge, having read the guidelines, that you will object. Do some operators begin with such bargaining?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Brooks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 665821,
      "EditedText": "Certainly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 665822,
      "EditedText": "The Loch Lomond site that Simon mentioned is a good example. Three operators were prepared to accept less than the ideal, but a fourth felt that it could push for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 665827,
      "EditedText": "Mr Ross suggested that the Government's objectives, as set out in circular 25/1985, have not been met. Can you tell us, in a nutshell, why that is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham U’ren: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 665838,
      "EditedText": "Yes. If we do not have the necessary guidance, that might make things worse in some ways. Our case is based on more directional guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 665839,
      "EditedText": "That clarifies the point.We understand that telecommunications developments move at a very fast pace. Given that, will not full planning control lack the required flexibility?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 665831,
      "EditedText": "The operators suggest that they would be happy with a code of practice. Why do you think that that would not be successful in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 665832,
      "EditedText": "The public must be confident that codes of practice that are outside their control and enforcement are working. The issue was raised under previous evidence to the committee as to what enforcement powers a local authority might have. There is great doubt as to whether there would be enforcement powers.For example, the permitted development order allows an operator, in an emergency, to roll in a mobile mast to fill a gap for up to six months. Does that mean that if the six-month period elapses and there has been no application—if one were required—that the authority could take enforcement action? I suspect that in that case it could.Codes of practice are all very well, but they require a great deal of public understanding that the local authority, the elected representatives, have had a major input into that process. If it would be helpful to the committee, on the issue of the prior notification arrangements I can do no better than refer to a particular paragraph in a research report from the Scottish Office research unit entitled \"Research on the General Permitted Development Order & Related Mechanisms\". I understand that the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the Scottish Executive are taking this report forward and discussing the outcome at the moment. The quote is very brief, but it encapsulates the whole issue. Paragraph 5.11 on page 26 says:\"There is a clear perception among planning officers that prior notification is unnecessary in principle and unsatisfactory in practice.\"The prior notification procedures\"are seen as representing a halfway house between permitted development and a planning application. The procedures are unpopular with planning authorities, which regard them as complicated, their powers circumscribed, time consuming, and with reduced fees. Planning authorities perceive that prior notification has complicated, rather than streamlined, development control. A clear preference is for such development to be permitted development, and therefore requiring no formal approval, or that it should not be permitted development, and that all developments covered by the prior notification procedures should be omitted from the PDO and require a planning application in every case.\"The researchers identified a methodology—I do not know whether this recommendation will be adopted—for what they call a prior notification procedure but what seems to me to be akin to making a planning application. I saw no difference other than that there was no advice about whether fees would be applied if an appeal mechanism were brought in. It may be that there is a methodology that would avoid planning applications, but the public know what a planning application is. They are used to getting involved in planning applications, and officers and members of the RTPI know what they are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 665834,
      "EditedText": "We are looking towards a model where planning applications would be required in a majority of cases for telecommunications antennae or apparatus that are very clearly defined in an order, whether a procedural order or a permitted development order. There may be scope for the most minor of apparatus, however defined, to be exempt from planning control.There is a variant that would say that there should be planning applications for certain cases of development and a strictly defined and controlled prior approval mechanism for a middle group. The institute favours the model recommended by the Scottish Office research report: a planning application with acceptable minor-scale developments outlined in a revised and simplified development order. That would be the simplest approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 665835,
      "EditedText": "You are already worried about inconsistency in the application of guidelines, are you not?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 665840,
      "EditedText": "I think that procedures could be built in to cope with that. We are obliged to decide on planning applications within a two-month period, which is not unreasonable. However, the industry is moving at such a speed that there will need to be a debate about where permitted development should stop. I do not think that we will end up with no permitted development of telecommunications apparatus—that would probably not be acceptable to the industry—but we should aim to have a dialogue with the operators at national and local level. We need to agree a strategy for their rollout programmes, with flexibility built in, and to devise an agreed statutory or non-statutory planning regime or guidelines locally.In Dundee, the committee has charged the director of planning and transportation with preparing non-statutory planning guidelines to supplement the existing adopted local plan, which refers to telecommunications, to assist members in their deliberations on this matter. Those guidelines are being prepared. In that way, we can devise certain restraints locally and advise operators that the location of a mast or other apparatus in a particular part of the city would not be looked on favourably and would probably not receive planning permission. The guidelines will be fed through into a review of the local plan, which will eventually be adopted.I think that non-statutory guidelines should be prepared in consultation with the operators. We have already embarked on a series of meetings with all the code operators working in Dundee, to find out what their rollout programmes are and to try to prevent applications to locate masts in particular areas appearing on the authority's table without warning. The aim is to know that applications are going to be made and what options have been considered. In such cases, we will know that the authority has considered mast sharing and ruled it out for technical or other reasons. The operator will already know our feelings about locations in conservation areas and listed buildings. From that, we may be able to build up a dialogue, so that, if an application is submitted, it can be processed by delegated powers. That would mean that it does not need to be reported to members and can be discharged by the director after 14 or 15 days, in the best circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 665841,
      "EditedText": "That is obviously an example of good practice. Did your local business community and the chamber of commerce get involved in the process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham U’ren: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 665844,
      "EditedText": "The former Scottish Office issued its land use planning under a Scottish Parliament consultation paper at the beginning of the year, and we anticipate a resumption of the exercise by the Scottish Executive very shortly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham U’ren: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 665846,
      "EditedText": "The key to this is the national planning guidance. It is arguable as to whether planning for telecoms developments is a particularly significant issue at structure plan level, but it certainly is at a local planning level.There are some issues on which you go directly from national guidance to the local level. There are other issues, housing land supply and so on, where it is important to resolve what the overall requirement is before the local plan proposals are put in place. The nature of the national planning framework that we have in mind is an issue that we are working on with our working party, which involves a range of interests in industry and the public sector.To encapsulate what I am saying on this issue, I will go back to what I said in my introduction. We are looking for national planning guidance that gives more direction as to what we can expect in the future in the market place, so that we know what we have to plan for instead of just having criteria that allow us to react when a matter arises. That principle applies as much to telecoms as it does to land supply for key areas of development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 665849,
      "EditedText": "You have already touched on some of my points, but you may be able to expand on them. What is the process for settling the parameters for what is a material planning consideration? Who determines what is, and what is not, a material planning consideration?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 665852,
      "EditedText": "That is an extremely difficult question and lies at the heart of the public's concerns about this issue. It would take strong guidance from central Government, but we do not have that guidance at the moment. Research is under way, and once the outcome is known, the planning regime will have to analyse it and ask, \"Do we want to make health a material consideration, not only in relation to telecommunications but in relation to other developments?\" I have already stated that case law will be relevant to those considerations.If health is to be a material consideration, how is it to be measured? How does the officer deal with an application for planning permission when someone says, \"There is a health issue, but I cannot be sure what it is\"? Are we talking about cordons sanitaire around areas, thereby taking a belt-and-braces approach? If that approach were applied to the telecommunications regime, there would be no rollout of the networks at all.It is not good enough to say that a material planning consideration should be whether a mast is a given distance away from residential property. It is done with regard to schools, but why? What is the difference between a living and a working environment? Those questions need to be answered or, before you know it, entire areas will be covered with cordons sanitaire. It is a difficult problem, and I do not have the expertise to answer your question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Ross: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 665854,
      "EditedText": "There is concern about the visual effects of masts, particularly where they are close to housing and impact on the visual amenities of residents who are trying to enjoy the comfort of their own homes. Instances of that have recently been in the press. The matter is of concern to RTPI members who have applications before them.The cumulative impact of the next phase of roll-outs is also of concern. That phase is not designed to provide coverage but to improve the quality of the service provided by the operators by boosting signals and by accommodating the demands of a growing customer base. Those developments tend to be on a smaller scale; for example, a box measuring 4 ft by 2 ft on a converted lamp post on a footway. One operator might need several of those in a locality. A different operator might be rolling out a similar programme with similar requirements but with a different design.The cumulative effects of a number of operators with permitted developments, and with rights under the New Roads and Streetworks Act 1991, to install kit on the highway, are potentially horrendous. As a local authority, we are not capable of dealing with that at the moment, other than by persuasion: talking to the operators, finding out what their requirements are, asking them if they have considered mast sharing and if they have considered the alternatives. I have found such discussions to be very useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 665857,
      "EditedText": "I would like to raise a point that the industry raised with the committee at the previous meeting. You will be pleased to know that they have the interests and welfare of planners close to their hearts. A consistent theme of their evidence was that the poor, overburdened and resource-starved planning authorities would struggle to cope with a full planning regime and that it would be in their interests not to be burdened with such an onerous task. I am sure that you appreciate the sympathy that underlay those statements. Could you comment on that?A full planning regime would add to the local authority's range of activities. I have been a member of a planning committee and I have heard the regular plea for more resources, which are never given. How do you feel about the additional work load that prior approval and a full planning regime would entail?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 665860,
      "EditedText": "I have a brief question. You mentioned basing things on sound local policy. We heard concerns from some of the operators that decisions would be made on the basis of local politics, which would not be good. They questioned whether you could balance local policy with a national framework. Do you have any comments to make about dealing with that problem, if a full planning regime was introduced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graham U’ren: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 665861,
      "EditedText": "That goes back to the point that we are making about the nature of national planning guidance. For a long time, we have taken a deregulation and disengagement approach, which has resulted in a reactive planning system. That makes local authority politicians somewhat defensive and unsure. We think that there should be far more common ownership of what planning is trying to achieve, based on a set of policies to which everyone subscribes. The committee is essential to those policies being adopted in the name of the Parliament. In that situation, the idea of local variation and inconsistency would be more exposed against the expectation of the general public. We are not there yet. It will take a change of ethos before we can say with confidence that what we are suggesting today would actually work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 665874,
      "EditedText": "I have read—albeit via the media—reports of other local authorities doing their own tests. I understand that Glasgow City Council has carried out independent testing. Do you know whether that covered non-thermal effects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 665875,
      "EditedText": "Two types of apparatus for monitoring emissions from masts are available on the market. One is known as a broadband microwave meter. To all intents and purposes, it looks like a gun, which an environmental health officer would point at a mast. The problem is that the equipment is manufactured in line with NRPB guidelines and is not sensitive enough to pick up the low, non-thermal levels that we are concerned about. A couple of local authorities in Scotland have decided to engage consultants with more sensitive equipment that pick up the non-thermal levels. They have been able to supply some information about those levels. When one considers published scientific literature from abroad, it is clear that biological change takes place at those low, non-thermal levels. Monitoring is therefore becoming less important. Industry representatives in the United States have now publicly recognised that biological change is taking place at non-thermal levels. Until now, they had declared that the only recognised biological effect was the thermal or heating effect. They are now saying that biological change is taking place that can no longer be attributed to that effect, and they are urgently calling for further research. If the industry itself has recognised that biological change is taking place, we think that that is enough to warrant a precautionary approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 665879,
      "EditedText": "Over the past 12 months, when we have approached the Health and Safety Executive about this matter, we have been concerned that it is now deferring completely to the National Radiological Protection Board. There used to be a lot of confusion: the Department of Health, the Department of Trade and Industry and the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions in England, and the Scottish Office development department in Scotland, were all involved, as was the NRPB. Now, all those departments defer totally to the NRPB. Because the problems in the system cannot be addressed by other means, the NRPB guidance is deferred to. We feel that the issue must be addressed through the planning system because, as with other types of development, health can be a planning consideration. I am aware that one of the members of this committee has stated that it seems strange that the current planning system makes it necessary to apply for planning permission to add a porch to a house, while no such permission is required to erect a mobile phone transmitter mast. Given the uncertainty about long-term health implications, we feel that health considerations must be introduced to the planning system. I received a report today that came, ironically, via an Australian senator. It concerns a local authority association in England, the Association of Hampshire and Isle of Wight Local Authorities. A report is to be published on 26 November in which that organisation will advocate the introduction of a 200 m precautionary zone around housing, schools, hospitals and health centres. What that body is recognising is that health authorities have an important role to play by becoming actively involved. That is in line with the Government's white paper, \"Towards a Healthier Scotland\", which recognises that there should be an increasing role for public health authorities in local areas. At the moment, we cannot expect planners to consider all the health implications; we need the involvement of the health boards. It should be a standard requirement, as part of the consultation process, that planning staff approach health boards, which will give them advice that is based on medical experience, not just on the scientific interpretation of organisations such as the NRPB and on epidemiological studies. An epidemiological study, or a study of a human population, would take about 20 or 30 years to show whether a pattern of ill health was developing. The technology that has given rise to mobile phones is so new that such studies have not been undertaken yet. We simply do not know what is happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 665880,
      "EditedText": "Is not that the nub of the problem? The local government planning committee would have to consult the proponents—those who are applying for planning permission—and those against it, and health experts from both sides would say very different things. The NRPB and other bodies are saying that masts are safe, within limits, et cetera, et cetera. Other organisations are saying the opposite. How can we decide between those contradictory positions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dixon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 665881,
      "EditedText": "That is the kind of decision that planning committees make every day. On a different subject—environmental impact, for example—a developer's expert might say that an installation would have little impact, whereas a local community might say that it would be awful. It is the job of planning committees to make those decisions. Local authorities have been the guardians of public health for more than a century. They have environmental health departments and have access to local health boards. People who are present today have been members of planning committees. We should respect the intelligence of members of planning committees and trust them to listen to both sides and make a rational decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 665882,
      "EditedText": "There is a difference of opinion on impact, between the views of communities, et cetera, and the evidence of the advocates of certain developments. Everybody is consulting experts and saying that their experts are right. That is the difficulty that members of local planning committees face, in the absence of some sort of policy platform from which local authorities can take guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 665885,
      "EditedText": "Probably all of us have had members of the public at our doors about this, so we are looking after the public's interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 665888,
      "EditedText": "We will take up your offer to supply a copy of the NRPB's response. The NRPB is coming to our meeting next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 665891,
      "EditedText": "The problem lies in the uncertainty. No one—the NRPB, the industry, scientists or medical experts—knows what is happening. We all know that biological change is taking place; we feel that that is sufficient basis for the committee to think that the siting of masts needs to be treated with slightly more caution.Our main advice would be to consider sensitive areas such as schools and residential areas. In the formative years, children's' bodies are still developing and can be particularly susceptible to this type of radiation. We urge the committee to recommend not siting masts in such sensitive areas, where possible, and to introduce the fact that there must be a facility where the public can raise objections on health grounds. At the moment, the public cannot do that. That is not acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 665892,
      "EditedText": "You have covered the first two questions that I had planned to ask, so I will go straight to the third. We understand that a policy framework can be applied equally to prior approval and to full planning control. Specific policy issues aside, do you think that prior approval will be adequate as a procedure for consideration of telecommunications developments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 665906,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify the position on the next rollout of network equipment, which will involve much smaller pieces of equipment than are currently used? How does such equipment fit into the planning process? Should it be subject to the full planning control powers that we have discussed this morning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 665895,
      "EditedText": "I would like first to make it clear that we are not advocating that there should be, for example, a 300 m zone or a 400 m zone. We have not specified that. There is still a difficulty in achieving a scientific consensus on the exact distance that would be appropriate. For example, parts of New South Wales in Australia have 500 m exclusion zones. Other parts of Australia have 300 m zones. Clackmannanshire Council in Scotland has decided that there should be a 100 m exclusion zone around property that it owns, because it does not want the public to be exposed.The committee is looking at the matter from a planning angle, so consideration of the issue is like looking at a planning application, and getting agreement in principle that there is a need to take preventive action when the siting of masts near schools is considered. We are not saying that blanket areas of cities should not be covered—we are not trying to do that at all. When Orange gave evidence to the committee, it said that Scotland was a potential communications desert, with entire cities wiped out from coverage. That is not the case.We have been working closely with Dundee City Council, which is considering the matter. We went through various stages of wondering whether we should have a 400 m zone or a 200 m zone. We had to be honest with the council and say that there was no point in pursuing a 400 m exclusion zone, because the technology in use can send its signal only 400 m.Similarly, following a high-level seminar with Liverpool City Council earlier this year, we were also aware that one network operator, which I will not name, threatened to take legal action if the council went ahead with a 400 m zone, because doing so would interfere with the operator's requirements and capabilities.We are not specifying exact distances; it is difficult to do so. We are saying that there should be a forum in which scientists, different technological experts and engineers can get together. We can work with the industry to discuss how to minimise the effect on the public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dixon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 665896,
      "EditedText": "I fully endorse those comments. Between the two of us, we cannot come up with the right distance. We can look at examples from around the world, and we can talk about the effective transmission range of the current technology. If the committee were to establish the principle that there should be, where possible, an exclusion zone around certain types of buildings—schools, residential areas, hospitals and so on—that would be enough. It would then be up to Scottish Executive planning guidance, which could be updated every so often depending on changes in technology, to say what the exclusion zone should be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 665899,
      "EditedText": "Dundee City Council is taking a positive approach. The council wants to work with the industry and with bodies such as ours and to represent the public's concerns. As an authority, it can carry out a site selection survey in its area to determine suitable places such as elevated sites. With this technology, a tall tree or building can block the signal, which means that the taller the mast, the further the signal can be sent. As a result, Dundee City Council has started to consider industrial sites away from populated areas, where slightly taller masts can be erected to send signals further. We are working with authorities to suggest more appropriate sites instead of inappropriate sites such as schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 665907,
      "EditedText": "It is a grey area at the moment. The Scottish Executive appears to make a distinction between ground-based masts and masts or antennae on buildings. There are two different types of equipment on buildings: small microcells, which can be attached to the sides of buildings; and masts that are, in essence, ground-based masts that have been placed on the tops of hospitals or high-rise blocks of flats. We feel that there should not be a distinction between ground-based masts and equipment on buildings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 665904,
      "EditedText": "So an adequate solution would be to have full planning as well as a health consideration?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 665910,
      "EditedText": "That is a valid point. We have tried to get to the root of the issue with the industry, and planning officers have approached it for further details of where signals go from such masts. For example, the antennae on those masts are omnidirectional—they can transmit in many directions. From the nature of the cell structure that they use, mobile phone companies know the direction in which the signal goes, but they are not willing to provide detailed diagrammatic evidence to local authorities. If local authorities had such evidence, they would know where the beam was going and could determine whether people were likely to be affected. There are various technical ways of trying to minimise exposure. Obviously, increasing the height of masts is a positive development; by the time signals hit the ground, the effect on members of the public is less."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 665911,
      "EditedText": "My question is about your distinction between residential and industrial zones."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665915",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 665915,
      "EditedText": "When did the NRPB last change the threshold limits?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Graeme McAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 665916,
      "EditedText": "In 1993. The NRPB regularly issues updates, but they are generally in response to published literature that shows a possible biological change at non-thermal levels. We do not often receive updates from the NRPB, however, that more evidence is starting to emerge of non-thermal levels and that the issue should be addressed. There is a reactive approach to pieces of literature that do not fit in with the thermal effect process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elsa Sinclair: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 665922,
      "EditedText": "I have had to write out my evidence; it is about legislation and I must be precise. We are not opposed to telecommunications masts if they are discreetly situated. The high street in Kinross is a designated conservation area and this hideous 27.59 m mast is only 30 in—not feet, but inches—away from our garage and adjoining house, and it is directly opposite a secondary school. It dominates the area, and it is almost double the height of permitted development masts. Perth and Kinross Council says that it is a replacement mast.Our concern is that we had no letters at all from Orange, the police, or the council's planning department informing us of that massive installation. We had a visit from a police telecommunications officer. He arrived unannounced on 1 April and informed us that a replacement mast would be erected on 6 April. We were not unduly concerned. By the way, the previous mast is now at Brechin police station, so it is not past its sell-by date. On the site are also two equipment housing units, each of which could garage a small car. No planning permission was sought for either the mast or the housing units.Our correspondence with Orange has resulted in the following replies. In June 1998 and in November 1998 it wrote to say that a member of Mr Hall's team would contact us. I do not know what happened to Mr Hall's team, but we have seen no one. In September 1998, we were told that a member of Mr Parker's team would contact us—again, no one did. However, we did get one interesting statement from Orange:\"As the Police Authority owned the original tower, Orange were required under the terms of the licence to transfer ownership of the new installation across to the Police Authority, and therefore Orange do not own this tower. As a consequence if Orange were to remove their equipment from the tower we would have no control as to whether the tower was removed or reinstated to its original height.\"Here is the proof that the mast is higher: the consent form from Orange requested a mast of 25 m in height. A Scottish Office letter says that the previous apparatus was 24.4 m high, and a statement from Perth and Kinross Council says that the current apparatus is 27.59 m high, which it is. That is more than 3 m higher than the original, which is contrary to legislation. Ian Sleith, head of planning at Perth and Kinross Council, said that the mast is \"offensive and overbearing\", yet he gave consent for it.The police do not need this gigantic mast, as the constabulary does not use mobile phones. We understand that Orange gave the police a sum of money.We went to the ombudsman, and eight months after we had made an official complaint he stated in a letter to us:\"It is not the Commissioner's role to arbitrate on any difference of opinion as to the correct interpretation of the relevant legislation. This is a matter which could only be decided by the courts\".The response should have been immediate, as the delay has cost us valuable time and money. It is completely unacceptable.Our councillor was leader of the council and we felt that he was being controlled. In November 1998 he wrote to the chief executive:\"Dear Harry . . . I must formally request that the Council consider dismantling the mast and removing it to another site.\"We heard nothing. However, in March 1990—after a lot of pressure—he asked us in a letter:\"Can you give me a form of wording that would satisfy your requirements? Thereafter I will consider whether it would be appropriate for me to raise a formal motion, providing of course I can find an individual who would be prepared to second such a motion.\"There seem to be contradictions, which must be addressed.There was a terrific delay in Perth and Kinross Council's replies to us—sometimes it took up to 13 weeks. Occasionally we had to resort to filling in one of the council's complaint forms and taking it to the local office to be signed and dated by a member of staff.We have correspondence to substantiate our claim that planning permission was required and that that was ignored. The Scottish Office's interpretation of its own legislation is that class 67(5)\"was intended to apply conditions to the development permitted by class 67 not to extend the permitted development rights to any type of development excluded elsewhere in the class\".However, Perth and Kinross Council claims that class 67(5)\"states how that development may be undertaken i.e. by giving the Planning Authority at least 8 weeks notice of the installation of the development.\"That is absolutely ludicrous. It makes a nonsense of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (Scotland) Order 1992.In a letter to Martin O'Neill MP, John Robertson, states of Perth and Kinross Council planning department:\"I agree the mast differs\".A mast in a conservation area cannot differ when it is to be replaced.The council has also disregarded the Conservation Act 1974. We have been listening to what has been said about the health issue. Time and again, that has been raised. Perth and Kinross Council has acknowledged that there is a health risk and has refused to allow a mast on Kinross High School's roof or an extension to the mast at the Green Hotel. The mast at the police station is directly opposite the school and only about 30 m away. In 1997 the council issued a policy document that defers\"siting masts on council properties in continuous public or staff usage on a daily basis\"and on \"Education properties\".There is certainly inconsistency there.Of course, our house has grossly depreciated in value. This huge mast casts a massive shadow over our garden, which we had hoped to enjoy during our retirement. It is pretty awful, and we can now hardly use our garden.We wrote to a number of other agencies, including the Office of Telecommunications, which said:\"I am sorry on this occasion we are unable to be of further assistance to you.\"At a very low estimate, this affair has already cost us £2,000. We had to issue a writ, which was time barred, and to spend at the very least another £1,000 on further litigation.Scottish Office legislation adequately covers masts in conservation areas, but if our experience is repeated—in Brechin, for example, where the old mast has gone—the future is bleak for anyone in Scotland with a radio mast next to their property. It appears that planning authorities can do whatever they like, irrespective of legislation. There is no public body to mediate and protect us from their awful decisions without spending huge sums of money. We also spent money on an advocate's opinion, which was as follows:\"It appears to me probable that the planning authority erred in holding that planning permission was not required. It is axiomatic to say that a public law administrator must correctly apply and understand the law that governs his decision. If he decided that planning permission was not required when in law it was, then this decision should be subject to review.\"Thank you for giving us this opportunity to give evidence today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jane McLeish (National Union of Journalists): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 665924,
      "EditedText": "I am from the BBC in Aberdeen, where I work as a journalist. I am a member of the National Union of Journalists. Our concern relates to the BBC transmitter mast in the former Beechgrove garden. The BBC is having new headquarters built in Aberdeen and the transmitter mast that carries mobile phone transmission gear is only a few yards from the new building.The BBC's transmission masts were privatised some years ago. They are owned by a company that was formerly known as Castle Transmission, but which is now known as Crown Castle International. It is not within the BBC's gift to remove the mobile telephone transmission gear, even if it wished to do so.The BBC has responded to our health concerns by organising monitoring of the emissions at an early stage. There have been no conclusive results but, as the committee heard from Friends of the Earth, those emissions are in line with NRPB guidelines, which refer to the thermal effects. Although those measurements are being taken, we are not being reassured about our health concerns about non-thermal effects. The evidence that we have heard suggests that the effects might range from sleep disturbance to cancer. Moreover, a psychological burden is placed on people who work in places where they are concerned about their health and where they do not know what will happen.I have photographs of the mast—it is quite high and the mobile phone gear is above the level at which we will be working. We do not know whether there is a cone effect, whether we will be hit by the arc of those emissions or whether we should go in to our work every day under the emissions. We are not just saying \"not in my back yard\"; we are also concerned about the local community. We want the planning authorities to take on board those health considerations. People's concerns about their working environments should be taken seriously.I know that this is a multi-billion pound industry and that there is concern that jobs will be lost in Scotland. We hate to see unemployment in this country, but we are talking about people's lives. People's lives and health are sometimes more important than their jobs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6087591+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 665925,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Rest assured that we do not think that this is simply a not-in-my-back-yard issue—your correspondence to us demonstrated that you were aware of the broader principles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 665928,
      "EditedText": "How was it publicised?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 25736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 665930,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that you have been ignored?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wishart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 665931,
      "EditedText": "We have serious concerns about Edinburgh's so-called precautionary policy. I had a strange meeting in a broom cupboard in Muirhouse—Vodafone's bottom line was that we should prepare a shopping list. We have concerns about local consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 665932,
      "EditedText": "I am glad we can offer you something bigger than a broom cupboard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wishart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 665933,
      "EditedText": "This is very comfortable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25736,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 665934,
      "EditedText": "I have a lot of general concerns about local consultation, not just in relation to masts. On a point of clarification, did you not have an opportunity to put your tenants federation's view through the same letterboxes? The time scale would have been such that you would have had no opportunity to sit down, prepare your questions and push them through people's letterboxes, highlighting the real concerns and suggesting that people attend a meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wishart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 665937,
      "EditedText": "Yes, given the time scale. Consultation of residents comes at the very last stage of the process. The industry has been jumping through hoops, perhaps for 18 months, before the residents are involved. Then, the process just goes through very quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elsa Sinclair: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 665945,
      "EditedText": "Elsa—or call on my husband, and I will answer the questions. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665951",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 665951,
      "EditedText": "And it should have been the same height?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Sinclair: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 665952,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jean McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 665954,
      "EditedText": "Some of my colleagues have accompanied other people who have gone to find out about the emissions. Early indications are that the emissions are within the limits set out in the guidelines. However—as I pointed out—if those guidelines are not referred to by the scientific concerns, they are not of much interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 665957,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions before I put my tuppence in? I wish to ask each group about the question that faces the committee regarding the planning process. Are you in favour of full planning strictures being applied to the erection of masts? I start with Jean."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jean McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 665958,
      "EditedText": "The views of a local community must be taken into account, as should health considerations. Rigour must be applied to the scientific and medical evidence and we must consider the source and reliability of the scientific investigations. Rigour should also be applied to the planning procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665959",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3967
    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25736,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 665959,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Sinclair: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 665960,
      "EditedText": "In our case—I cannot speak for others—the planning people, who are there to protect us, have admitted that they allowed a commercial company to put up a new mast on council ground in a conservation area. Planning permission should at least have been applied for. The mast should not have gone up there, as there is a school across the road."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Person": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 665962,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Andy or Betty?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 665965,
      "EditedText": "As no committee member is indicating that they have further questions, I thank the witnesses for coming along. It has been useful to hear about how the process has worked—or not worked—for those at the sharp end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 25737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 665968,
      "EditedText": "The minister said in the chamber that the Executive continues to pursue the prior approval procedure and that we should expect the document soon. That is my recollection from the minute. My understanding is that the Executive is still working on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665969",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3967
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
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      "ContributionID": 665969,
      "EditedText": "So it is still working on prior approval while we are deciding whether we think it is appropriate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665971",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
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      "ContributionID": 665971,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:22."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.6243801+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 624696,
      "EditedText": "In particular, we must put in place an interim complaints procedure as quickly as possible, so that members are aware of how complaints should be channelled through the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624698",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 624698,
      "EditedText": "If it is at all possible, we should try to complete the draft code of conduct before the Christmas recess. The problems that we have encountered in recent weeks have been due primarily to the fact that there is no code of conduct in place, nor any complaints or enforcement procedure. The committee is beholden to make the draft code available to members as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "I take that point on board."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 624700,
      "EditedText": "I know that people's diaries are tight and that we are becoming busier as the recess approaches, but I suggest that we consider fitting in another meeting, so that the draft can be completed before the recess."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624701",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 624701,
      "EditedText": "I have already asked whether we can meet weekly, but parliamentary staff have told me that it is difficult to arrange the facilities for that. I asked whether we could meet next week, but that has proved impossible."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624702",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 624702,
      "EditedText": "We could look ahead—it might be possible to schedule a meeting between 24 November and 8 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 624703,
      "EditedText": "We have meetings on 24 November and 8 December. The clerks tell me that they will do all the preparation to allow us to complete our work by then. I am suggesting a January deadline, because 8 December might be too tight. The legal advice that we received was that the draft code could not be checked before then. I acknowledge what you say. We will have to review the situation after each meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 624706,
      "EditedText": "I confirm to members that, prior to this meeting, I requested a meeting for 17 November—this time next week—because I felt that we should be meeting not fortnightly, but weekly. The advice that I am giving you now is advice that I received from the committee clerks, who said that that was not possible. However, I hear what members are saying and take the same view. We should go back to parliamentary staff and say that we want to meet on 17 November to progress the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 624710,
      "EditedText": "I am the only MSP who is currently a member of three committees, and two of them are now having difficulty finding space. A meeting of another committee that was scheduled for today could not take place. The committees are keen to do the work, but the facilities and back-up are under huge pressure. That simply illustrates further the inadequacies of the buildings in which we are situated, but we will have to put up with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 624716,
      "EditedText": "Let me get this absolutely clear. My intention as convener was to try to get the committee to agree to complete a draft code of conduct by the end of this parliamentary term. I said at the start of the debate that my advice indicated that that might not be physically possible—we might have to stray into January. I understand that that is not acceptable to members and that members feel that we must complete the task before the Christmas recess.I am happy to take that to the Presiding Officer, to ensure that we can make available a draft code of conduct to the Parliament by the end of this parliamentary term.Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 624720,
      "EditedText": "The committee needs support, but I am concerned that we are asking for an adviser on issues that might or might not come up. I am not happy about taking on an adviser just for the sake of it. We must be clear about the role of such an adviser, and we have not had that discussion. The adviser could not be a default parliamentary commissioner. We need to have the debate about whether we need a parliamentary commissioner, but that is quite distinct from appointing an adviser on a pro tem basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 624721,
      "EditedText": "I have serious concerns about engaging an adviser to deal with the rush of complaints against MSPs. I do not think that such a rush will occur and I would point out that, after our deliberations of recent weeks, we have not found the MSPs concerned to be in breach of any code. We are pre-empting a discussion that we might have to have in the future about the appointment of an independent adviser.We will consider a complaint today. We should discuss other complaints as they come up. Some might be of sufficient seriousness for the committee to consider and others might require a letter from the convener. At the moment, we appear to be suggesting that we are expecting a rush of complaints against members. I do not think that that is a good message to send."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 624724,
      "EditedText": "We took the decision on a Tuesday to appoint Malcolm Duncan to advise us during our previous inquiry and he was appointed on the Friday. There were three days between the need for an adviser being identified and someone being appointed. As Karen Gillon said, only one complaint is outstanding, and no one anticipates a rush of complaints. If a serious complaint comes to us, the Parliament is flexible enough to let us deal with the problem in a couple of days. I do not think that we have to have an appointee on hold. We should get work done on the code of conduct and the complaints procedure, and we should also have a discussion about whether we need a parliamentary commissioner for standards. We have not had that discussion yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 624731,
      "EditedText": "I think that we ought to take a vote on that, as the committee is clearly split. Either we get permission to appoint an adviser or we do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 18741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 624737,
      "EditedText": "Our next item is the draft committee report on the regulation of cross-party groups. I do not want to spend too long on this item, but we need to progress the draft report, as there is mounting pressure for arrangements to establish cross-party groups. I understand that groups are already starting to meet throughout the Parliament, but they can have no established status until the Parliament has set up the regulatory system.The rules on cross-party groups, annexed to the draft report that members have, were substantially agreed by us previously; we have gone through all the rules. The briefing note highlights and explains the amendments that the staff have added.I think that Des wanted to go through a few of the minor changes, so I shall ask him to start. Anyone else who wants to discuss the amendments should then feel free to flag up their concerns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 18741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 624738,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go through the document paragraph by paragraph. The fifth line of the fourth paragraph of annexe A states that the Standards Committee \"may refuse recognition if it considers that a group does not comply with the rules or it may\".At that point, I would like to insert the words, \"defer consideration to seek clarification from the group about its application.\"That would, in a sense, give us three options. We could approve, refuse or defer. My suggested wording would make that clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 18741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 624745,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point. Are there any other observations on it? There is none, so are we agreed that we will ask the clerk to make a change to the instructions?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 18741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 624747,
      "EditedText": "On page 8 of our draft report, in the sections headed, \"Financial or other benefits received by the Group\" and \"Staff employed by groups\", I am concerned whether we have covered adequately people who are employed by outside organisations and are doing work with, or on behalf of, a cross-parliamentary group. In a sense, that is covered in the part of the document that refers to financial or other benefits that are received by the group, but we must discuss whether it is covered in the point about staff employed by groups.It is relatively unlikely that staff will be employed by cross-party groups, but it is possible, if we look at practices elsewhere, that cross-party groups will have access to people who are employed by other organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 18741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 624750,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone happy with that change?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 624754,
      "EditedText": "Our next agenda item is an initial debate on lobbying. This item was deferred from our meeting on 29 September and our experiences since then can only contribute to our consideration of the matter. Although the debate should present a useful opportunity to exchange views in a free-ranging way, committee members should bear in mind some points.As our remit under standing orders means that we have to consider and report on matters concerning the conduct of MSPs, we should focus our discussion on the relationship between MSPs and lobbyists. With the reaffirmation of the code of conduct as our top priority, the discussion will provide an opportunity to identify members' requirements concerning lobbyists. We could include those requirements in the draft code at our next meeting. Committee members may wish to range more widely than that, but the needs of the code have to be our priority.We will consider issues such as the acceptability of lobbying to MSPs, bearing in mind our general principles of openness and accessibility. Does existing legislation such as the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999 and the proposed arrangements for cross-party groups make sufficient provision for encouraging appropriate relationships between lobbyists and MSPs? If not, what other requirements should be imposed? Should such requirements be included in the code of conduct or are they for longer-term consideration?Having primed committee members with some initial thoughts for this debate, I open the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 624757,
      "EditedText": "My next point is about whether lobbyists, as well as MSPs, should have a code of conduct. There is a strong case for making absolutely certain that lobbyists have such a code. The form of that code could easily be determined by resolving the question of whether lobbyists should be registered. The argument for registration is that lobbying will happen and that, without registration, there is a greater danger that the activity will go underground. The counter-argument is that registration might confer greater legitimacy on lobbyists, which is not desirable. Although I doubt whether registration will affect my view of lobbyists one way or the other, it will mean that the activity will be out in the open and more easily controlled.Although the committee will decide and vote on the matter in due course, lobbyists need at the very least to be controlled by a code of conduct. Any registration scheme would impose its own code of conduct. If the committee decides against a registration scheme, there should be a voluntary code of conduct to let lobbyists know what is and what is not acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 624758,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that we have finally reached the lobbying debate that was aborted about a month ago. The issue concerns the Parliament and I am grateful for the opportunity to have this initial discussion.I am not going to say that my views have changed over the past month. I have always believed that, as a Parliament, we need to register companies that lobby. There is a distinction between companies that lobby—companies that take money from a third party to act on their behalf in connection with this Parliament—and bodies such as voluntary organisations, charities and individual companies that employ their own staff to interface with this Parliament and its MSPs. The lobby companies often say that a distinction cannot be made between lobbying and the work of voluntary groups. However, the distinction is clear to me: it concerns whether someone is employed by a company or organisation to interact with the Parliament and communicate with MSPs, or whether a company is employed to do that work on someone else's behalf. My view is that companies that are employed to do that work on behalf of another organisation should be registered.I am conscious that the code of conduct that we are scrutinising should deal primarily with the relationship between MSPs and the companies, but that should be approached from the perspective of MSPs' conduct, not the lobbyists' conduct. We need to include some form of registration regulation for companies that lobby. Just as we had a discussion this morning about the regulation of cross-party groups, it is entirely appropriate that, at some point, this committee should return to discussion about the regulation of companies that are employed in lobbying this Parliament. I would like to hear the views of other members of the committee on that. I am grateful that we have this opportunity—albeit a wee bit later than we had hoped for—to discuss the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 624759,
      "EditedText": "Do other members want to add to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 624768,
      "EditedText": "That is absolutely true, but if someone comes to my surgery, I do not need to know what their job is—if they are one of my constituents, I do not care what they do for a living. I have a responsibility to them—he or she is my constituent. I may find other people's jobs less wholesome than others—than lobbying, even—but that person is entitled, as my constituent, to ask me for my opinion and to lobby me. That is perfectly within their rights. I would have concerns, however, if we were to ask people from only one section of the community what their jobs were. If those people came to my constituency, I would know what they did, but I would not know exactly what other people did—that is a dangerous game at the constituency level. I see what Richard Simpson is saying, in terms of the bigger picture, but at a constituency level, as an MSP, I should deal with everyone equally, regardless of what they do for a living or of any other criteria. My other concern, which emerged from the inquiry into Beattie Media, is that we do not know what happens behind closed doors. We know what happened in that situation, because it was videoed—there was a very strong sales pitch. From the evidence, we do not know that it was any different from any other sales pitch that that lobbying organisation used with any other client. I am concerned that other lobbying companies may use exactly the same sales pitch with other organisations. Whatever we do, we will never know what is said or claimed in private meetings between two individuals. For that reason, I am, in some ways, grateful to The Observer for its action, as it clearly brought into the open what happens in such meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 624774,
      "EditedText": "I would like to take two more contributions before we conclude, unless someone is desperate to say something else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 624779,
      "EditedText": "It is not my intention to suspend the meeting for long. Are we happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 624783,
      "EditedText": "Can I ask that we deal with the two questions separately?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 624790,
      "EditedText": "According to the act, that, of course, will be the case if the help is provided on a continuing basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 624793,
      "EditedText": "The effect of this will be that MSPs will in the same position as MPs in the House of Commons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 624794,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure what the situation is in the House of Commons.Are we happy with that first part?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 624800,
      "EditedText": "That is clear. Our conclusion is that there is no question of Lord Watson having breached the advocacy rule, but we will advise him that he must register his interests forthwith."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 624803,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private until 12:47."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 10 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 624693,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:53"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 10 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18739,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18739,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 624694,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the 12th meeting of the Standards Committee. We have a busy agenda. First, I would like to make a decision on item 5 on the agenda, the consideration of the draft report on the matters raised by The Observer. It is expected that the committee will agree to discuss the report in private, for obvious reasons. Are members agreed that we do that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 624695,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is the committee's forward work programme. Members will have received the initial papers and will see that a substantial amount of issues require our attention. We need to agree on how to organise our work to address all those major issues. Members have said several times that completing the draft code of conduct is a priority. There is also an urgent need to put in place a complaints procedure and to consider, as it is appropriate to our remit, the issue of lobbying.Do members reaffirm that the draft code is our priority? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 624697,
      "EditedText": "I agree that the draft code of conduct should include a complaints procedure and an enforcement procedure, and that we must complete it as quickly as possible. I suggest that the draft code of conduct, including, as Des McNulty said, the interim complaints procedure, be the main item on the agenda of the meeting on 24 November.It will help our deliberations if we set a target date for completion of the draft code. I know that that is difficult, but it is important to give a steer to what we do. We should make progress by Christmas, with a view to having the draft available by January. Can we agree to that time scale, with the meetings on 24 November and 8 December devoted to that item? We might need additional meetings to meet the January deadline, but we will address that closer to the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 624704,
      "EditedText": "With respect, we have been round the houses on the matter on a number of occasions, and have had to set it aside. I do not want a repeat of the situation that we have been in, and for us to be found negligent. This must be a priority for all of us. I understand the pressures for the staff of this committee, in particular, but if the Parliament is serious about having a code of conduct, a room will have to be found. If that is all that stands between us and having another meeting, a room will have to be found, and we will need to get on with it. The longer this drags on, the more it looks as if the Parliament has not got its act together on a code of conduct for members. We must try as hard as we can to fit in another meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 624705,
      "EditedText": "I agree whole-heartedly with Karen. The code of conduct is a priority. Unfortunately, it was derailed for a month because we had to investigate other matters. However, now it must get back on track, as we owe it to our fellow MSPs to put something in front of them before the Christmas recess. Karen is right to say that it is a matter not just for the Standards Committee but for the Parliament. If the members of the Standards Committee are urging that we have additional meetings to progress the matter satisfactorily and timeously, it is incumbent on the parliamentary staff to facilitate that and to find us the rooms and offices that we need. We understand the pressure that they are under, but there is pressure on the Parliament.I also agree with Des McNulty on the pressing need for an interim statement on a complaints procedure. That needs to be done first, but we should aim to have the code of conduct in more or less final form by the December recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 624707,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that is what we are saying, convener. We are saying that we want a meeting next week. It does not have to be on Wednesday morning—it can be on Tuesday morning or Tuesday afternoon. People have difficulties with other committees meeting, but we can rotate the three slots available. I am sure that we can find a space. It does not need to be between 9.30 am and 12.30 pm—it can be in the early evening or at lunchtime. I am sure that we can find a time when there is space available in the building. Other committees are meeting to deal with business that is not as pressing as this. If space can be found for them, it can be found for us, given the nature of the business that we have to expedite over the next few weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 624709,
      "EditedText": "We should have as many meetings as are necessary to get the job done effectively, and I suspect that one meeting in December will not be enough. We have to ensure that we get the resources, the facilities and the time to do the job properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 624712,
      "EditedText": "I was given to understand that the clerks could make the drafts available to us reasonably quickly, so that we could deal with them at our meetings on 24 November and 8 December. It was made clear by the legal staff at the pre-meeting briefing that because of pressure of work they could not agree to give the necessary legal advice on the draft code of conduct this side of Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 624713,
      "EditedText": "If that is the advice that we are being given, we should make representations to the Presiding Officer. The reputation of the Parliament depends on a code of conduct for MSPs. We must be able to produce that code of conduct, and the committee has indicated that it wants to do that work. The Presiding Officer should be asked to use his offices to ensure that the staff, resources and facilities are available to the committee to allow it to do the work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 624714,
      "EditedText": "If other committee members agree, I will write to the Presiding Officer to draw his attention to the fact that the establishment and presentation to Parliament of a draft code of conduct is our No 1 priority. I will mention that the advice that we have received today indicates that those resources will not be available to allow us to do so before Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 624725,
      "EditedText": "What Des is proposing is not unreasonable. We need to alert the SPCB to the fact that we could need people. I accept what Karen and Tricia have said: we do not anticipate a flood of complaints against MSPs, and we hope that that will not happen. We should set that issue aside and get on with the rest of this morning's business. We have already used up almost half an hour of our time on issues that are not fundamental to our discussions. I would like the committee to move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 624727,
      "EditedText": "The role of the adviser that Des is suggesting is to sift complaints. That is a different role from the one that Malcolm Duncan had. Malcolm Duncan's role was to scrutinise evidence and information that the committee, as the supreme body of the Parliament in dealing with the standards of members, had asked for. I would be concerned if, at this stage in the proceedings, we were to preclude the committee from deciding whether a piece of evidence or a complaint needed to be dealt with. At this point, the committee is responsible for that. If we are setting up a system that is different from the one that we have had in the past, we are precluding discussion of the role of an independent adviser to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18740,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 624728,
      "EditedText": "Des McNulty's point is that we should be in a position to act quickly if the need arises, and that is reasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 624730,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We shall move on to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 624732,
      "EditedText": "This is a serious decision and we have not yet had a discussion about what the role of the adviser would be, how they would go about their job, and when they would speak to the committee—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 624734,
      "EditedText": "I am not prepared to take a decision on the appointment of someone who will take on the responsibilities of the committee after a five-minute discussion that is, quite frankly, ill informed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 18740,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 624735,
      "EditedText": "If a number of members of the committee are unhappy about the proposal, we should leave it in abeyance and deal with matters as they arise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 18741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 624739,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 18741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 624740,
      "EditedText": "Point 3, at the bottom of page 2, states that\"the overall membership profile must remain clearly Parliamentary in character\".That is absolutely in keeping with what we discussed, but we probably need to define it in some way and it is difficult to know how to define it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 18741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 624742,
      "EditedText": "One possible clarification would be to say that as a minimum, the group would be expected to be in compliance with point 10 of the draft report, which states that at least two members of Parliament should be present at each meeting. We should make a reference to that point.It may be that \"parliamentary\" will be defined in practice, but if I was reading the document as someone who had not taken part in the debate, I would not necessarily understand what was meant by point 3, so perhaps we could consider a note of clarification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 18741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 624743,
      "EditedText": "Are members agreed that we should clarify point 3?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 18741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 624744,
      "EditedText": "I have raised a general point with the clerk to the committee. On pages 5 and 6, we have tried to be helpful to groups by saying that the signatory to the declaration need not be the person who is recommended by the group as responsible for maintaining the details of group compliance. That is an attempt to be helpful, but because of the way in which it is written, it comes across as a wee bit confusing. Initially, we should require that the person who registers is the person who is responsible for compliance, but we should allow the group to change that person as the group evolves, because people's interests might change. Our instructions should be clearer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 18741,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 624748,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could change that part of the document so that it refers to \"staff either employed by, or working for, groups\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 624756,
      "EditedText": "Lord James, may I stop you there? You have made a valid point about the Parliament's policing mechanism—which we will discuss—but this debate is about lobbyists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 624761,
      "EditedText": "I hear what Richard Simpson and Tricia Marwick are saying. Tricia is asking for a clear definition of a professional lobbying operation that is established solely for the purposes of attracting business from people outwith the parliamentary system, of making contacts with MSPs and ministers, of affecting the decision-making process or of giving its clients an advantage in acquiring the relevant information. I am not entirely sure that voluntary groups do anything other than what the professionals will do. That must be teased out in our debate. Are we saying that professional lobbyists are somehow to be discouraged, if not exactly deplored? In this Parliament, we are trying to be as open and transparent as possible. The need for lobbying companies will be less, in our system, than in the USA, for example. The Scottish Parliament has been set up closer to the people. People should have much better access to their politicians than they have in other countries. When it comes to the practice of the Scottish Parliament, the problem has been more about perception than reality. I agree that we should have a registration system; every organisation—including voluntary organisations—that wants to lobby should be registered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 624765,
      "EditedText": "It is part and parcel of the work of politicians to be lobbied from time to time. I hope that in the first instance they are lobbied by their constituents, but then by all kinds of interested parties, whether from the voluntary sector or any other area of public life. Everybody has a view to put forward. The issue is not whether they should be allowed to do that, but whether some groups may be doing it in a way that is less than transparent. Transparency is the key issue to which we must pay attention.I share Karen Gillon's view that, in an ideal world, lobbying companies would not be necessary. However, the reality is that if people think that these companies can do something for them, they will employ them. Lobbying companies exist not just in the UK political system, but in political systems around the world. Given that some lobbying companies will probably operate in Scotland, we might have to move towards either some kind of regulation process or a tight system of codes of conduct. I am not yet persuaded which of those two options we should choose. I lean towards registration, but I think that there is a debate to be had on that. The mechanics of any process of registration are very complex. Countries that have introduced registration, such as Canada and some states of the United States of America, have had huge difficulties establishing a registration code.I tend to think that a code should apply not just to lobbying companies, but to professional lobbyists who work for them. Individual lobbyists should be required to disclose to MSPs on whose behalf they are working and the basis of that contractual relationship.Also crucial—this arises from the civil service code—is guidance for MSPs on handling approaches from lobbying organisations. That would help people to keep themselves right and provide us with a template for dealing with any instances of wrongdoing by members. Unless we set out the best way of handling approaches from lobbying companies, we will be on weak ground when dealing with members who, it is felt, have not acted correctly. For that reason, we need to pay attention to this issue in the context of the code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 624769,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I agree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 624770,
      "EditedText": "I speak as someone who was, before the election, employed by Shelter Scotland as a parliamentary lobbyist—I was the organisation's public affairs officer. As a representative of a charitable housing organisation, I had no difficulty in making contact with ministers and Opposition members. In fact, I had a good relationship with my colleague, Lord James, when he was the Scottish housing minister. I could pick up the phone or write to John McAllion, Malcolm Chisholm, Jim Wallace or Alex Salmond. Most voluntary organisations, charities and so on have similar experiences. Lord James and the other politicians that I contacted then knew exactly what Shelter was and why I was phoning them, whether it was about the code of guidance on homelessness legislation or to try to prevent the introduction in Scotland of legislation that was similar to the English legislation. Shelter was up front and that was my job. It is not only wealthy organisations that employ parliamentary officers—many organisations throughout Scotland do so. The Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations has set up a unit specifically to help the hundreds and thousands of people who are employed in and work with the voluntary sector in Scotland to do just the kind of job that I did for Shelter.I share Karen Gillon's view—it is my hope that commercial lobby companies will wither on the vine, because, in my opinion, we simply do not need them. If we are to be the open, accountable, transparent Parliament that we say we are going to be, everyone should have equal access. Regardless of whether people are acting as an individual, for a voluntary organisation or for a commercial firm, everyone should be treated in exactly the same way by this Parliament and everyone should have the same access to information, which is often important. We have advantages over the Westminster system. I take on board some of Karen's points about the need not to allow companies to bed into the institution that is the Scottish Parliament. I will reflect carefully on what she said. We must not allow them to get a grip. We must not allow companies to tarnish the name of the Scottish Parliament. We cannot allow the Westminster system even to get a toehold in this Parliament. That is why so many of us are concerned about the activities of lobby companies. We promised the people of Scotland that we would be different. It is incumbent on us to ensure that we are different and that everything that we do is open. However, we need to engage with individuals because lobbying is a legitimate part of the democratic process and it is right and proper that that should continue. We need the expertise that is available in the voluntary sector, for example. Voluntary organisations are not just lobbying to get something out of us. The expertise and professionalism that voluntary organisations and others can give to the Scottish Parliament cannot be underestimated.I still incline to the view that we should register companies that are paid to lobby on behalf of others. I do not think that there is any need to register individual voluntary organisations—I have to tell Adam Ingram that that would be an impossible task, as there are simply too many of them. Moreover, it could send completely the wrong message to the voluntary sector in Scotland and to individual companies that come to us. However, we need to consider carefully those companies whose reason for existence is to make money out of the parliamentary system—I feel extremely uncomfortable about such companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 624773,
      "EditedText": "We have to be careful to distinguish between the role of the Standards Committee and the role of the Parliament generally. I am in favour of the ethos, which has been outlined by Karen Gillon and Tricia Marwick, among others, that Parliament should be open and accessible. I agree that that ethos should inform the procedures of the Parliament and the committees.We can pass that spirit on to other people and committees but, in a sense, the job of the Standards Committee is to deal with areas in which Parliament might not be open and accessible. There are particular issues relating to lobbying companies, lobbyists and the role of MSPs in relation to them. Those are the three things on which we must concentrate our attention.There are some clear advantages and disadvantages associated with the process of registering lobbying companies. Registration makes the matter clear and explicit, but the difficulty lies in defining the terms of the regulation and in enforcing it. We have the task of policing the behaviour of MSPs and we should consider carefully whether we want to extend our role into policing other organisations. It may well be that we have to do that, but we should be aware of the difficulties surrounding the terms of the regulation and systems of enforcement.A voluntary code of conduct might be a way of offloading part of the responsibility on to the companies. Depending on the role we took in framing the code and the sanctions that we could impose on those who breach it, we might be satisfied that that approach would be tight enough. I cannot see how we can escape the process of registration and a tight code of conduct. The Scottish public will not tolerate a situation where lobbying companies are unregulated. The companies will not wither on the vine, and we have to deal with the situation.It is important that we deal not just with the companies, but with the individuals who engage in lobbying activities. That should be part of the registration process or the code of conduct. Individuals as well as companies should be monitored. Our prime responsibility is to guide MSPs on how to deal with such contacts and organisations, even lobbying in general. Many people in the Parliament are new to politics and there are do's and don'ts that were available to me when I became a councillor which are not available to MSPs. The pressure in the Scottish Parliament is much greater than in a council. We should consider that approach alongside the more formal aspects, such as registration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 624775,
      "EditedText": "Lobbying has always happened. It cannot be abolished—not effectively—and any attempts to do so would probably drive it underground. The whole thrust of the Parliament is towards transparency and therefore registration seems a lesser evil.I have one qualification about registration. Countries that have decided to use registration and a compulsory code of conduct have to review the registration process because there are so many different forms of lobbying. It is easy to slip through the net and there have had to be regular reviews."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 624777,
      "EditedText": "I would like to close this part of the meeting at that point. I think that we have had a valuable initial debate on lobbying. The committee has noted that lobbying takes many forms and that, except where impropriety is involved, it is an acceptable form of parliamentary democracy. I would like to make the point that provisions, registration, declaration of interests and the rule against paid advocacy are already in place in the members' interests order.I take on board the points that have been made about more advice being made available to MSPs. The role of this committee is to ensure that that happens by drawing up a code of conduct.The regulation of the cross-party groups that we considered before the lobbying debate is designed to prevent any improper influence arising from the activities of such groups. There is a difference of opinion on the distinction drawn by some members between the role of the professional lobbyist and that of lobbying companies. I think that the clerks have made a note of that point. It will form options for discussion when we consider that section.On guidance about handling relations with lobbying organisations, Adam Ingram made the point that MSPs might not know that they are dealing with lobbyists. Tricia Marwick made good points about the differences between voluntary organisations who employ people to deal with public relations, as Shelter employed Tricia in her previous existence, and private companies who lobby for one organisation or another.We have addressed many issues. Our discussion has helped us focus on issues in relation to the code of conduct.Before we move on to the next item on the agenda, I suggest a suspension for a few minutes while we take legal advice on the issue. Are we agreed that we will suspend the meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 624778,
      "EditedText": "I would like us to stop suspending the meeting all the time. I have other things to do today. However, five minutes to take legal advice sounds reasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 624784,
      "EditedText": "Indeed we can. Let us deal with the first question, on the register of interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 624787,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that that should be our course of action?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 624788,
      "EditedText": "On the first point, we will ask Mike Watson to register sponsorship forthwith. I will do that immediately after this meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 624796,
      "EditedText": "This is the primary issue for consideration by this committee and for any member who wishes to bring forward a member's bill. That rule appears in article 6 of the members' interests order and it is wide-reaching. We must read that order and section 39.4 of the Scotland Act 1998. That section states:\"Provision shall be made prohibiting a member of the Parliament from—(a) advocating or initiating any cause or matter on behalf of any person, by any means specified in the provision, in consideration of any payment or benefit in kind of a description so specified, or(b) urging, in consideration of any such payment or benefit in kind any other member of the Parliament to advocate or initiate any cause or matter on behalf of any person by any such means.\"The key words are \"in consideration of\" and, having read the evidence, I do not believe that Lord Watson brought forward that bill in consideration of any support that he subsequently received. The key issue is whether he gained from it, and I do not think that that is the case. He has not broken the rules on unpaid advocacy, which we have examined alongside the Scotland Act 1998."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 624797,
      "EditedText": "Do other members have any views on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 624798,
      "EditedText": "I agree that there was no paid advocacy. We have had very good legal advice that I believe has been correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 624799,
      "EditedText": "Is that the view of every member of the committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 624801,
      "EditedText": "There has been some confusion among MSPs about the paid advocacy rule and about issues related to members' interests. I ask that for future consideration the clerks prepare a paper on any possible amendments to the members' interests order, if that is appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 624708,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that the problem is not a shortage of rooms, but the work load on staff and the availability of, in particular, legal advice. The issue is not whether we meet next week but whether we can fit in enough meetings between now and the relevant point in December to complete the code of conduct. I am not in favour of meetings for the sake of meetings: we meet to transact business effectively. I suggest that we proceed on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 624711,
      "EditedText": "I would like something clarified. I have in my possession a draft code of conduct, or parts of one, that was given to us some weeks ago. I am confused by what Des McNulty said about legal advice. What legal advice do we require? We did not require it at the beginning of the process—we were merely working our way through the code of conduct. Can you clarify what is the legal problem with our establishing a code of conduct for members of this Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 624715,
      "EditedText": "Our meeting on 8 December should move us towards finalising that process. We should aim for that target. In the next four weeks, we need the resources that will allow us to achieve that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 624717,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on, I would like to say that I am concerned that we might be diverted from our timetable if we are required to deal with individual cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 624718,
      "EditedText": "We have had to deal with complaints. We are dealing with one today; others might come before us. We should go—with the permission of the Parliamentary Bureau—to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body to ask its permission for the appointment of a temporary adviser who could assist us in our work in dealing with forthcoming complaints. That would make the process more manageable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 624719,
      "EditedText": "I strongly support that. The appointment of a parliamentary commissioner should be left exclusively to this committee; we will come to that later. I have consistently supported that, but in the meantime, Des McNulty's proposal is extremely sensible and I am sure that the bureau would support it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
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      "ID": 18740,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 624722,
      "EditedText": "I think that we decided that any letters of complaint would be handed to the clerks in the first instance. The point of asking for a temporary adviser is to deal with the initial sifting of complaints."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18740,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 624723,
      "EditedText": "I am of the same view as Tricia Marwick. We do not want to pre-empt the discussion that we need to have about complaints-handling procedures. I was suggesting not that we appoint a temporary adviser, but that we ask for permission to do so should the need arise. We do not have the power to deal with that; we have to go through a similar process to the one that we went through for the appointment of Malcolm Duncan.I know of no complaints other than the ones before us today, but we have recorded that we are in a difficult position as regards handling complaints. We want to be sure that we are in a position to deal with anything that might arise. However, that is not to expect that something will arise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18740,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 624726,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other views?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 624729,
      "EditedText": "I think that the general view of the majority of the committee is that we should leave the issue until a later date. Is that right?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 624733,
      "EditedText": "I know. You have said that already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18740,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 624736,
      "EditedText": "Des is suggesting that, and I think that we should move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 624741,
      "EditedText": "You are right that there was difficulty in defining \"parliamentary\", but in the event that a problem arises, it will be for the committee to make a judgment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 624746,
      "EditedText": "Keep going, Des."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18741,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 624749,
      "EditedText": "Yes, something along those lines. I am just flagging up the issue. We need a satisfactory resolution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 624751,
      "EditedText": "We will change the text."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18741,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 624752,
      "EditedText": "Apart from that, I thought that the document was fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups ",
      "HeadingID": 18741,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18741,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 624753,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any points that they wish to raise or changes that they would like to make? Unless there are any objections to what has been proposed, the draft report—even though we have just tweaked it again—will be submitted to the SPCB for approval of the recommendations on the use of parliamentary facilities, because they are that body's responsibility. Once the SPCB has considered it, we will need to agree our report for the final time, so that it can be presented to Parliament. Do members agree that we should send the draft report to the SPCB?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 624755,
      "EditedText": "There is a very strong case for the Parliament to have a parliamentary commissioner for standards. Any queries or assertions could be sifted and he or she could submit a report to the committee. If the committee chose to have such a commissioner, obviously the position would have to be advertised so that any well-qualified applicants—for example, retired judges—could put themselves forward.The second issue—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18742,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 624760,
      "EditedText": "The prime difficulty is that MSPs may not know whether someone is employed by a lobbying firm. One of the things that we must consider is whether MSPs should declare contact with lobbying groups. If there is no requirement to register, it will not be known which organisations are lobbying groups. I also foresee intermediate problems. If a lobbying company seconds somebody to another company to undertake work on its behalf, where would that fall in relation to direct or indirect employment? The only way in which we can deal with such issues is by having a registration process that defines absolutely clearly what constitutes a lobbying firm and what does not. I do not think that there is any way out other than through registration. Frankly, I would prefer not to impose registration, as I think that we should have the fewest possible regulations. Nevertheless, there is no alternative if we are to make the matter absolutely clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 624762,
      "EditedText": "Lobbying is a legitimate part of this democracy and of this Parliament. It is imperative that individuals, charities, voluntary organisations and companies of all shapes and sizes can lobby any member of the Parliament on any issue that is important to them. When I first campaigned for a Scottish Parliament a number of years ago, I did so in the earnest hope and belief that it would be different from Parliaments elsewhere. I wanted this to be a Parliament in which the views and interests of individuals, voluntary organisations and companies would be taken on board when we—as politicians—made decisions. My concern about lobbying companies is that they can act for a number of different interests—you do not always know what you are getting. If a charity comes to lobby you, you know what its sphere of influence is and the issues that it is bothered about. If a constituent comes to lobby you, you know what they want because they tell you straight away; they are not one day wearing one hat saying that they are lobbying you about the environment and the next day wearing another hat saying that they want you to reduce the price of fuel. They are lobbying on issues that bother them; they are not speaking with forked tongues. Interruption. Richard, I am entitled to my opinions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624763",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 624763,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 624764,
      "EditedText": "I am on record as saying—in this committee—that I do not believe that lobbying companies are necessary in the Parliament. If the Parliament works in the way in which I hope that it was set up to work and the way in which everybody round this table wants it to work, lobbying companies that represent organisations for a fee will be unnecessary. Companies, organisations and individuals should feel able to meet members of the Parliament; they should not need a third party to speak on their behalf. My concern is that we will not be able to achieve that if we introduce registration and establish a system that gives credence and credit to lobbying organisations. Lobbying organisations will become part of the fabric of the Parliament; they will become necessary to gain access to it. I am extremely concerned about going down that road. My hope for the Parliament is that commercial lobbying companies will be unnecessary. Maybe I live in an unreal world—and maybe I will be criticised for that—but I believe that, as individuals in the Parliament, we are responsible to the people out there for the decisions that we make. They should be able to tell us face to face—individually or collectively—what they think. That is the way in which I would like the Parliament to work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 624766,
      "EditedText": "I think that everybody has had a first opportunity to make known their views. Do members have any further comments in response to what we have heard so far?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 624767,
      "EditedText": "Nobody will dispute the points that Karen Gillon makes about being completely open to all groups. My concern is that MSPs are aware of who is approaching them. A member may be approached by a lobbyist who happens to live in their constituency—there is no requirement on that person to declare their profession. Is it necessary for members to know that they are dealing with a professional lobbyist? Relatively wealthy companies will employ parliamentary officers, as many companies in Scotland have already done. They will be professional lobbyists who happen to be employed by one company. I am quite happy to speak to such a lobbyist about an issue, as I am prepared to talk to anyone. However, I want to know where they are coming from, what their role is and whether they are speaking on behalf of a specific group or area. It is important that I have that information, so that I know how to conduct myself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 624771,
      "EditedText": "I am conscious of the time, but I will take two or three more comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 18742,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 624772,
      "EditedText": "We have to regulate our own affairs within the Parliament. Rather than focusing on lobbying companies as a bad thing, we should concentrate on advancing the process that Tricia Marwick described as lobbying companies withering on the vine because they cannot provide a service to the client that the client cannot get directly from the Parliament. This Parliament should concentrate on creating the conditions under which lobbying companies do not thrive.That brings me round to Karen Gillon's view. I understand her argument that registering lobbying companies will give them a clout that they do not deserve. On Tricia Marwick's point about the registration of lobbyists from individual voluntary organisations, some voluntary organisations can be equated with commercial companies in the way in which they go about their business. I do think that it would be as easy as Tricia suggests to differentiate between some third sector organisations and commercial operations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18742,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 624776,
      "EditedText": "I have a quick point. We have had a worthy discussion, but there are many things that we cannot do much about. There is a limit to what we, as parliamentarians, can do.The public are probably worried about the role of lobbyists but, in my experience of the past few weeks, they are more worried about whether there is evidence of impropriety on the part of the people whom they elected to serve their interests. The committee's priority should be to put in place the code of conduct, including a section on lobbying, offering advice to members about what is expected of them. At some point we should revisit the issue of lobbying organisations. However, at the moment, we need to get the code of conduct together. That is the priority for the public because they are more worried about the people they elect than people who work in private companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 624780,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18742,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 624781,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 624782,
      "EditedText": "We have received the latest legal advice on the issue of the complaint against Mike Watson MSP. Before I throw the matter open for discussion among members, I want to make it clear that, because the complaint in question has been made in public, we should deal with the issue in public and not in private session. However, because we are dealing with the complaint in this way on this occasion—because it was initially raised in the public domain in the way that it was—that should not create a precedent for the committee's work on future complaints. That is particularly important when considering the procedures that we are about to set up in the code of conduct.I would now like the committee to consider the complaint against Mike Watson. We have received all the relevant papers, including the details of the complaint and Mike Watson's reaction and response to the committee clerk's letter.Our debate focuses on two questions. First, should Mike Watson have registered the support he received in the register of interests? Secondly, has Mike Watson breached the advocacy rule?I would like to throw the questions open to members. Having gone through all the papers that we have received, what is your view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 624785,
      "EditedText": "I understand that there was a registration of interests, but that it might not have been in exactly the correct form. I think, therefore, that Mike Watson should be invited here, or should be advised on how to correct this and make registration appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 624786,
      "EditedText": "The issue of sponsorship is paramount and, as I understand it, registration comes under a different category. It also appears, from our information, that Lord Watson will continue to receive administrative support, drafting support and legal support during the passage of the bill. If that is so, there is a case to be made for changing registered interests to sponsorship and we should ask Lord Watson to do that as a matter of urgency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 624789,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 5 in the schedule to the members' interests order deals with this. I am concerned that Mike Watson did not consider that he should be required to register, or that the support he receives amounts to sponsorship. It is now accepted that that must be done.If the situation is sorted out as it relates to Mike Watson, it is important to ensure that members bringing forward members' bills in future realise that, if they get support from outside organisations in the drafting of bills, that could come under sponsorship. They should be advised on that basis to avoid uncertainty or confusion in future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 624791,
      "EditedText": "So is our conclusion that Mike should be advised to register forthwith and that we should issue advice to those who have indicated an interest in members' bills and bills in which sponsorship might be an issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
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      "ID": 18743,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 624792,
      "EditedText": "We will ask the clerks to make that clear to MSPs."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 624795,
      "EditedText": "The second and perhaps more difficult area is the question of whether Lord Watson has breached the advocacy rule."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3477
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Complaint",
      "HeadingID": 18743,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ID": 18743,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 624802,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is a reasonable and positive outcome from this incident that will be helpful to members in the future; it will certainly help us in the future.We will move on to item 5 on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 604268,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask a question about the Official Report. I realise that the official report has a heavy work load, but now that we meet weekly, can we expect reports to be published prior to the next meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 604288,
      "EditedText": "I have several questions. What are your concerns about the new housing partnership policy? That question is for all three of you. Alan talked about the CIHS's role in investigating other ways of getting investment. The submission from Scottish Homes also discussed other forms of resourcing, apart from stock transfer. What are your views on that, Alan?You mentioned participation. I would like to have your views about participation under the new housing partnership. One of the main issues must be the quality of housing. Do you think that the problems that we have seen in the past 30 years could continue if we do not raise the quality of housing by investing heavily in housing in a short period of time?As far as COSLA is concerned, I am interested in the timetable of the housing agenda. The right to buy is obviously a key issue. I would be interested in what COSLA has to say about the problems that are caused by the fact that a housing bill will not appear until the middle of 2000. What difficulties might that cause tenants who are voting prior to an agreement about a single tenancy or a right to buy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 604290,
      "EditedText": "Would you say something on finance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 604301,
      "EditedText": "Unless right to buy is amended, is there a danger, under new housing partnership, that we will just project the problems that we have had into the future, especially for housing associations? Councils will have absolutely no quality stock. David's points are well made: housing is not just about the individual who is in that home at that one time; there is a greater social service for the wider community, because we never know where we might be in 10 or 20 years' time. From the perspective of the housing associations, is there a danger that we will just project the right-to-buy problem into the future with the new housing partnership; and from the council perspective, can you go to a ballot without a change to right to buy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 604262,
      "EditedText": "I want to mention the mapping exercise. The Scottish Parliament information centre has, quite fairly, pointed out that it could do only a limited amount of the mapping exercise that we asked for. Having discussed the matter with Martin Verity, I suggest that the committee formally write to Wendy Alexander to ask whether the Executive is undertaking, or has undertaken, a mapping exercise. If it has, there is no point in duplicating its efforts in our research. If it has not, the item should be on the agenda when we discuss our research needs at a later meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 604264,
      "EditedText": "That is a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 604267,
      "EditedText": "They are being processed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 604271,
      "EditedText": "I did not leave the building until 7 o'clock last night and I did not see the Official Report until this morning. Had there been an issue that I wanted to raise today, I would not have been able to do it, even with rapid reading and the best will in the world. Nobody could be expected to go through the report thoroughly in just half an hour. It would be better if the report were available on Tuesday early doors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 604272,
      "EditedText": "Members usually get copies of the minutes. They are much more truncated than the Official Report, but they are available on the web earlier. I can also circulate copies of the minutes to members if they want me to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 604279,
      "EditedText": "Shall I write to members telling them what the schedule is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 604281,
      "EditedText": "We will now move on to housing stock transfers, which is a big issue on our agenda. Anyone who reads the Official Report of our meetings will know that we have referred to the subject on many occasions.I welcome David Orr, David Henderson and Alan Ferguson. We will ask you to present a brief introduction. That is so that we can maximise our interaction with you, not minimise your contributions to this committee. We are keen to hear your perspectives and you will have plenty of opportunities to offer them. We have set aside a substantial amount of time for this item, so I hope that we will be able to get through some of the issues. Please introduce yourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Michael McGlynn (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 604282,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful for the opportunity to put forward COSLA's perspective, which was laid out in our short briefing notes. One of the points that we wish to raise is that local government and our tenants are the groups that are most directly affected by stock transfer developments.The first point that we wish to raise is that housing is a key element in the drive to deliver social inclusion. It is an integral part of community development, alongside education, healthy living, crime prevention, social care and sport—all the other things that MSPs are interested in as well. Government policies of the 1980s and 1990s penalised councils. The right to buy removed the best housing, discounted sale values left councils with an ever increasing housing debt burden, and the Government cut the amounts local government was allowed to borrow.Subsequently, several councils joined forces with other landlord organisations to help achieve housing plan objectives, to increase investment in housing stock and to provide more affordable housing for tenants in their areas. Seven councils are currently exploring wholesale stock transfers to try to meet some of their housing plan objectives.As part of COSLA's contribution, we have to ensure that certain items and guarantees are included in stock transfer proposals. Local government has to be at the heart of those transfers because it is democratically elected. There must be a single housing plan to ensure that new housing associations and new housing providers meet the objectives of national Government and local areas. Local government must ensure that there is a single, independent regulator and we have to ensure that a single housing tenancy, which is dear to COSLA and some of the organisations round this table, occurs.COSLA has serious reservations about the right to buy and any extensions to it. In our contribution to the housing green paper we made it clear that in the first instance we wanted the abolition of the right to buy, but if that were not achievable we wanted the Government to consider a list of amendments and exemptions that we provided. We have serious reservations regarding the right to buy policy, and we would like to address that policy later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 604283,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We will hear the introductions and then begin asking our questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 604287,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Alan. I kept opening comments brief so that we can maximise the time for members' questions. I am sure that we will have an interesting discussion.In taking questions, I will try to balance party interests. With a bit of luck, most members' questions will be heard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 604289,
      "EditedText": "All of us had concerns about the new housing partnership. As you know, however, COSLA, the SFHA and the CIHS are all on the new housing partnership steering group. The concerns relate to the competitive bidding process, the short time scales and other such matters.In an ideal world, a competitive bidding process would be unnecessary: councils would set out plans that they would be funded for and their performance would be measured. We are some way away from having such a process. We have enabled Government to focus resources on particular priority areas through the new housing partnership programme. Progress has been quick. Fiona Hyslop mentioned the fear that the problems of the past 30 years could continue if we do not raise the quality of housing in a short period of time. I think that we have moved more quickly than we would have done if we had dealt with the matter in the usual way.All the groups present today recognise people's concerns, but they have encouraged authorities to consider ways to improve housing. Fiona is right: the quality of housing is a major concern. Sometimes in this debate, we forget that we are trying to provide decent homes for people who live in council housing. The debate can get bogged down in arguments about ownership and the level of tenant control. Those things are important and we support empowerment and tenant control, but we must not lose sight of our aim, which is to improve housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 604291,
      "EditedText": "The institute has dealt with the subject of the public sector borrowing requirement. That is a UK institution; it is not used by other European countries and it is not in the Maastricht conversion criteria. Why do we have a public sector borrowing requirement? We have argued with Conservative and Labour Governments about the need to change the rules and to move towards a more European definition of public expenditure. That does not mean that councils would not transfer their stock, but it would mean that councils would still own the houses, through an arm's-length company called a local housing corporation. That new organisation would be able to borrow money to invest in housing, but the council would still own the houses.We have been supportive of and pushed that model. We have not got anywhere with Westminster because the Government has not been prepared to consider changing those rules. In its evidence, Scottish Homes mentioned the securitisation of rental income. Our understanding is that that would require a change in the rules for defining public expenditure. Although it is all right to put forward those ideas, we must also be pragmatic: the rules exist. How can we improve housing? One way is through stock transfer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 604298,
      "EditedText": "There is unanimity among committee members that Scottish housing is in acute crisis, although there may be arguments about how we arrived at that situation and possibly about how it should be remedied. The basic fact is that we are confronted with an unacceptable situation.First, bearing in mind the fact that in Glasgow something like 90 per cent of tenants are on housing benefit and 83 per cent of rents are paid by housing benefit, do you believe that, if the stock transfer proceeds, the Government may in time come under pressure effectively to increase rents? At the end of the day, nobody would be particularly hurt by that—the subsidy that at one time went to council housing would come from another department's budget, through housing benefit—but the small minority of people who do not enjoy housing benefit would suffer.Secondly, I believe that the right-to-buy legislation is one of the success stories of Scottish housing in recent times. My colleagues on the committee will say that I would say that. I am concerned that that legislation might be diluted if stock transfers proceed. I would like your comments.Thirdly, it is clear that the secure tenancy agreements that tenants enjoy at present will need to be reconsidered if the stock transfer proceeds. Will tenants transfer to assured tenancies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McGlynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 604299,
      "EditedText": "The right to buy gave many Scottish people the aspiration to be home owners, but it disadvantaged many of the most vulnerable client groups in society. Councils lost a lot of their best stock and there are now massive waiting lists. Right to buy was positive in some aspects, but it was negative in that it caused other pressures. Some people do not have housing opportunities as a result. There is a downside to every policy.COSLA has made it clear in its documentation and in its response to the green paper that it has significant worries about the right to buy and the single social tenancy. We believe that to achieve the Government's complementary objectives—social inclusion and ensuring that people live in warm, safe conditions—we must ensure that houses are available for rent in Scotland. If the right to buy is kept in its present form or is extended, houses will not be available to the most vulnerable people, whether from new providers, housing associations or councils. People will be punished by the drive to create home ownership. The push was to create home owners rather than sustainable home ownership.In some of the council estates in my area, for example, South Lanarkshire Council is making major improvements, but the home owners cannot afford to participate. The drive created home owners, but nothing else. People do not have the finance or the equity to participate, despite the fact that the council is offering them standard securities on their property and grants under specific schemes, because they are at the margins. People who have temporary jobs or irregular working patterns cannot afford to participate.The situation in Scotland is unacceptable. Housing is of poor quality. However, if we want to create a national policy for stock transfers, it must have the acceptance of tenants. Neither of the two gentlemen mentioned that. For them, it is all about professionals making decisions. However, tenants need to make the point that they want to work with councils and providers to get their homes into a satisfactory condition.There is no doubt that the new housing partnerships policy is a good one. For every £1 spent by my council, we achieved £2.40 of private sector money. Not one of the Scottish Homes schemes has ever achieved that. So councils can do things well. The danger that Alan Ferguson indicated is that new housing partnerships are challenge funded. Accessing funds needs people who can write articulate documents. The more articulate the document, the greater its chance of success. You cannot create a national policy that will rid us of poor housing, of dampness, of condensation, by challenge funding. There has to be a national strategy, with local strategies to back it up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 604307,
      "EditedText": "I will take one more question from Cathie Craigie about the right to buy. Then I shall open up the questioning to cover wider issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 604302,
      "EditedText": "To be explicit and clear, our view is that, from a given date, right to buy should be abolished for all new tenancies. No tenant who currently has the right to buy should have that right taken away. We do not believe in taking things away. However, this has nothing to do with stock transfer. If the task is to put in place a housing strategy that creates balanced, successful and sustainable communities, we believe that right to buy does not assist in achieving that task. From a given date, it should be abolished for all new tenancies in housing associations and local authorities, because it does not meet the primary objective.In some areas, as part of a local strategy, you may want to increase the level of owner occupation, and there may be a contract or a voluntary arrangement that would allow tenants to buy houses. There may be other mechanisms for encouraging home ownership in monotenure rented estates. Personally, I think that we need to have some mechanisms for encouraging renting in monotenure owner-occupation estates, because we do not have balanced housing communities at present. I strongly believe that, if we are successful in meeting the most optimistic projections of investing £3 billion in our housing stock, it would be fundamentally problematic, in the long term, if that led to 250,000 of the 750,000 houses in the rented sector being bought as a result of right to buy. That would create an even more unbalanced housing market than we have at the moment, and it would lead to much greater volatility in house prices.At the moment we are seeing interest rate rises because of the imbalance in the housing market in London and the south-east of England. We can take steps to ensure that that does not happen here. After 20 years of right to buy, which has been hugely successful for some individuals, but which has been quite damaging as a strategic policy instrument, we cannot say that we can carry on with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 604303,
      "EditedText": "I am surprised at the vehemence with which David has expressed that view. I used to have reservations about the right to buy. Certainly under the previous Government, the aim of the strategic policy was simply to increase home ownership. I am not opposed to home ownership, but I am concerned about how stock transfer could affect tenants' rights.As you will know, one of the issues most often raised in discussions with housing associations when it comes to the transfer of stock from local authorities is that of assured versus secure tenancies. I am currently dealing with a difficult case that centres on just that point. As I understand it, it is proposed that the right to buy would not apply to people who come into the new housing partnerships after the cut-off point when the new system starts. I am concerned that that will lead to a two-tier system in which people will be living under ostensibly the same conditions, but with one family enjoying a right that the family next door does not have. It is rather like transferring jobs from the public sector to the private sector, when employment rights are sustained for those who are already there at the time of the change but do not apply to those who start after that point. I am as unhappy about double standards in housing as I am about double standards in employment.I have a personal view on such matters that may not be widely shared, but I believe that if the right to buy applies in the public sector, it should also apply in the private sector. Private landlords should be obliged to sell their properties to tenants who want to buy them. The whole right-to-buy issue is a matter of key concern. I am not quite sure what Fiona meant about local authorities being able to ballot without the right to buy being affected, but I think that it will be difficult to satisfy the expectations of tenants if they feel that they are buying into a two-tier structure. I am, therefore, surprised by the suggestion that there should be attempts to stop the right to buy with effect from the moment when the new system comes into being. Why do you think that that would be beneficial?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 604305,
      "EditedText": "Even if housing stock transfer did not take place?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 604306,
      "EditedText": "Even if housing stock transfer did not take place.Under the current rules, people who transfer on an assured tenancy have a contractually preserved right to buy, which lasts only as long as they are the tenants. That right does not pass to subsequent tenants of that property. When people talk about the difference between assured and secure tenancies and its being a problem in transfers, the absence of a long-term right to buy is not the issue that they are worried about. They are most worried about the fact that the tenancy agreement is not entirely underwritten by statute, and that there are mandatory grounds in the assured tenancy arrangement for evictions. We would like tenancy agreements that do not have those mandatory grounds.It is important to make that distinction. I believe that the right to buy was a policy instrument introduced by a Government that strongly believed in the rights of the individual taking precedence. That is difficult to square with a Government whose key policy instrument is the development of successful communities. The right to buy is not a negotiation; it is something that can be exercised by only one person, regardless of the needs of the neighbourhood. It is time that we fundamentally re-examined that situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 604308,
      "EditedText": "My question is about the fallout from the right to buy. As Michael McGlynn said in his presentation, some people bought their homes without knowing just what was in store for them and what responsibilities they would have to take on as owner-occupiers. As a result, some properties have fallen into a state of disrepair that is worse, in many cases, than the state of council houses or housing association properties round about. That is a problem that we must consider in our discussion about stock transfers.If a new landlord organisation wants to modernise poor-quality housing stock, there will be difficulties if there are no owner-occupiers coming on board. That is a problem that I am aware exists with former development corporation houses in my constituency, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth. Cumbernauld development corporation was regarded as a success story and held in high regard, having the highest corporation house sales in Scotland. The Conservative Government trumpeted and championed that, but did not trumpet the fact that we had the highest rate of homelessness in Scotland. We had the highest number of people applying to be rehoused after they had bought houses but could not afford the mortgage payments. Have the implications of housing stock transfers for owner-occupiers caused difficulties?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604311",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
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      "EditedText": "We must move on, as a lot of people have not spoken. I hope that we will have a wee bit of time at the end to come back to important points."
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 604315,
      "EditedText": "Lenders have four main concerns, the first and most important of which is the certainty of the income stream. Secondly, they are concerned about the quality of the management and of the people who will run the organisation. People are exhaustively interviewed before money is handed over. Thirdly, there are concerns that the work should be underwritten by statutory regulation, including the possibility for housing associations of a compulsory transfer of assets and engagements, which would provide a last resort if there are major problems. However, there have been no major problems with housing association borrowing.Finally, lenders are concerned about certainty. They find that the right to buy creates a level of uncertainty about future income-stream patterns and whether any stock that will generate income streams will disappear. Although any one of those factors, if adverse, will not be enough to send lenders away, any one will add to the cost of borrowing. Lenders price for risk. If they detect a greater degree of risk, they will charge more for money, which will have a direct impact either on the rents that tenants have to pay or on the amount of money that is available for investing in stock. As a result, we want to make the process as free of risk as possible.SFHA's view is that if a transfer to a single company is a prerequisite in an agreed strategy for onward transfer to community ownership—a mechanism for bringing money in, investing and transferring on—it is a realistic mechanism.We are hesitant about a transfer that just transfers 80,000 houses to a single body and stops there. We have severe reservations about whether that will deliver the required wider benefits. The difficulty in Glasgow is that the status quo is so unacceptable that almost anything looks better. However, we should not be trying for better, but for the best that we can achieve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McGlynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 604317,
      "EditedText": "Local authority tenants are directly affected by everything that we are discussing; I made that point in my presentation. Their views on stock transfer should be reflected throughout the process, but it is evident that policy is being created—at Scottish Parliament, council and housing association levels—without those views first being considered.Tenants want to remain with local councils, but councils are so short of money that they are considering enabling others in order to obtain finance to improve tenants' homes. That is my honest, genuine opinion and a presentation of the facts. I was chairman of housing in Hamilton from 1992 to 1996; in the last year we had approximately £16 million to spend on a stock of 16,000. I am now chairman of housing on South Lanarkshire Council. This year we have a capital programme of £12 million for 37,500 houses. Councils face the difficulty that—however wisely they spend—the money cannot cover every council priority or meet the needs of all the tenants.We must be honest with our tenants. We tell them that we must consider other ways—such as the new housing partnerships, stock appraisal or Scottish Executive finance—of getting new money, because we cannot make all the improvements that we would like to their homes. We took the bold step of telling our tenants that we could not do the improvements that we would like to do.We can propose to provide the tenants with information, empowerment and independent advice, but the tenants make the final decision. If the tenants say no in the ballot, that would not give the councils a problem; it would make a clear statement to the Scottish Parliament that the tenants want to remain with the council. In those circumstances, it would be incumbent on the Scottish Parliament to make more money available to councils to spend on improving tenants' lives.I am not talking about housing for housing's sake. We do not spend money on buildings for no reason. We do so because the complementary strategies of the Scottish Parliament are to provide people with a decent education, health service and social care. There is no point in spending millions of pounds on education—providing pre-nursery and nursery education and a great start in school—if the kids are going home to damp houses. We must have complementary policies. At present, councils are left with the worst housing stock and, if tenants reject the ballot, that will be a problem for everyone, not just for councils. Little has been done on the direct labour organisations and contracts for housing maintenance. Seven councils have been involved in wholesale transfers and I understand that in most of those transfers, little regard was paid to the DLOs and the workers who work in the DLO system. As someone who has been involved in local government for some years, I find that disappointing. Councils must address that and I hope that they will do so quickly. In terms of the right to buy, COSLA's position was articulated in the response to the green paper. We met the Minister for Communities, Wendy Alexander, on 13 September. She asked us to review our position, which holds for the time being, and we are doing that—we have set up an officer-member working party that will report back soon. However, at the moment, I would not support extending the right to buy to housing association properties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 604319,
      "EditedText": "Lloyd Quinan asked me whether SFHA was anxious that a housing bill would extend the right to buy to housing associations. The answer is that we are extremely anxious about that and will be extremely resistant to it, for the reasons that I gave earlier. I know that we have not talked about the financial context, but I think that it is relevant to some of the issues that Michael McGlynn raised. Successive Governments have cut investment in housing. We are reaping the harvest of those decisions. For the 3-year period that ends on 31 March 2001, the Parliament will invest £640 million a year in Scottish housing, through local authorities and housing associations. That is an increase from about £480 million but, five years ago, we were investing £1 billion a year. This year, housing associations, through Scottish Homes, have £160 million available to them, which is the second lowest annual capital sum that they have had in the 10-year existence of Scottish Homes. Last year, they had £150 million, but four years ago they had £278 million. We are not talking about slices being shaved off—both this Administration and the previous one have taken the view that housing investment is not a political priority. That is why we face these difficulties—we are not spending enough money on our housing stock. It is important that we consider all the options—new housing partnerships and anything else that that we can come up with. We argued—and the Government agreed—that new housing partnership money should be available for new build and regeneration, as well as for transfer. We think that that is important. However, the bottom line is that we still need enhanced public sector investment in our housing stock.I am sorry if that is not a directly relevant political point, but the context is important in what we are trying to do, which is to generate good-quality investment in very poor-quality housing stock, in a financial environment that has become increasingly difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 604320,
      "EditedText": "I have some general questions about stock transfers. The three issues that are most commonly raised by constituents and tenants are the cost of rents, the geographical spread and the need for community regeneration. Some local authorities charge particularly low rents. My own local authority, in north Lanarkshire, is one of them. However, I recently met the chairperson of the Castlemilk East Housing Co-operative, who told me that his housing association charged lower rents than the local authority on similar properties, even though the association's properties were generally of a much higher standard. Is there evidence to suggest that there might be a levelling-out of rents throughout the country? How do rents for housing association properties compare with those for local authority properties?The SFHA has said that there is no optimum size for a transfer organisation. Some criteria should be employed for transfers. Is there evidence of good housing associations that are large and geographically diverse? Are there inherent problems with larger housing associations that do not take into consideration the geography and the communities of the areas in which they operate? I address those questions to Alan Ferguson and David Orr.I address the following questions to Michael McGlynn. Stock has been transferred in four local authorities. Do local authorities encounter problems with the housing associations? Do they take a partnership approach? Are local authorities beginning to encounter problems in meeting their statutory obligations on homelessness, or are they encountering co-operation and assistance from housing associations in meeting those obligations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 604321,
      "EditedText": "Rents are inconsistent across the board. Edinburgh has the highest rents, but is next door to Midlothian, where the rents are low—£47 to £28. There is no consistency. A lot of it is owing to historical accident—when housing was built and what kind of housing was built. In Glasgow, unimproved council housing can be more expensive than improved housing association housing. That is an important issue that several organisations, including the Chartered Institute of Housing in Scotland, have raised. We are carrying out a major piece of work on that. We are considering the options and trying to ensure consistency. The issue of rents is a major problem that needs to be dealt with.The green paper mentions local authorities in which rent levels have increased significantly above inflation and suggests that stock transfer can provide rent guarantees, which are usually inflation plus 1 per cent. The SFHA and the Chartered Institute of Housing in Scotland, in particular, have raised the issue of whether that is appropriate across the board. For example, is inflation plus 1 per cent appropriate for Glasgow and Edinburgh, where rents are already high? Perhaps that is not the issue; perhaps, to create consistency, the figure should be 2 per cent above inflation in other areas, if the tenants agree to that, which they might not. Optimum size is an inherent problem of housing associations. The Chartered Institute of Housing has members across all sectors; it is a UK body—I am the director for Scotland. Its members range from some associations in Scotland with only a couple of hundred houses, right through to Home Housing Association—based in England but with a presence in Scotland—which owns 40,000 houses. The point is to provide housing and a decent service. That can be done by both small and large organisations. Some organisations are not good, but others are; some larger organisations do not provide a good service, but others do. That has nothing to do with their size, but depends on how they are geared up: their staffing levels, what their service is like, how they involve tenants and how they are structured. There are many factors, apart from size, that determine performance and whether there are problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 604322,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what Alan has said about rents. It would be helpful to have more clarity—not a rigidly imposed rent policy, but an agreed definition of affordability, so that we were all working to the same general objective. SFHA has a definition, which I can share with the committee at any time, if it would like.Increasingly, I find that housing associations believe that their optimum size is 50 per cent bigger than they are at the moment, as they have their sights on what they could do with a little extra income. There are some very impressive larger organisations, and some less impressive ones; the same applies to smaller associations. Margaret Blackwood Housing Association works in every local authority area in Scotland. It can do that because it represents a community of interest, providing housing for people with physical disabilities, among others. Fife Special Housing Association is a tenant-controlled transfer association with nearly 3,000 houses across Fife.The difficulty with defining an optimum size is that that suggests that any association of that size is the perfect housing association, when there is no such thing. I strongly believe—SFHA has tried to argue this—that community ownership is not about transfer of assets and decision making, but about a state of mind. It is about people saying, \"I feel a sense of ownership of the street in which I live; I believe that I belong here.\" People can get their minds around making decisions at that level—or for their town or estate. It is much more difficult to do that for an entire city. This is not about defining an optimum size, but about people's feelings.Community ownership is about a transfer of power to engage people in making decisions about the areas in which they live and the places in which they feel at home. Large-scale transfers are not in themselves likely to do that, although they may provide better-quality housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 604327,
      "EditedText": "I can assure you of that. The transfer of power is a laudable aim, and we would all support it. However, tenants have suggested to me that we are not transferring power to tenants and people in the community but—as was alluded to earlier—to professional staff employed by the housing authorities. How do we guarantee real community empowerment, rather than just a transfer of power to staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 604332,
      "EditedText": "Can I come in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 604335,
      "EditedText": "I will try to be brief. I have three points. Your answer on community ownership and involvement is directly at odds with the right to buy and I think that there is now a change in culture. I have been concerned about the right to buy for a long time, although I was a member of the party that introduced it. However, I have seen the light. I hope that Bill Aitken will follow shortly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 604338,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I will allow witnesses to answer the question, but please do not repeat points that have already been made, because time is against us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 604342,
      "EditedText": "Are we all agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 604348,
      "EditedText": "Would the proposals have a major effect?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 604344,
      "EditedText": "We should not rehearse the referendum arguments at every committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 604345,
      "EditedText": "It is a fair point, however. We should set our expectations correctly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 604352,
      "EditedText": "We have not done a systematic analysis. We are relatively small organisations that are engaged in the business of providing housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 604353,
      "EditedText": "Scottish Homes was going to do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 604354,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful. It is a difficult analysis.It will cost more to borrow from banks and building societies than to borrow from the Public Works Loan Board. The extent of the additional cost depends on the perceived risk to the lenders. If the lenders think that the risk in the transaction is minimal—because the income stream is secure and the regulatory framework is in place—the cost above what a loan from the PWLB would cost will be relatively small. If the lenders think that the income stream is not secure, the difference will be greater.I have pointed out that people think that an extra quarter of 1 per cent sounds like a tiny sum, but if it is quarter of 1 per cent on top of 6 per cent spread over 30 years, it becomes a huge sum. It is important that we make the situation as robust and as risk-free as possible.The question whether it is better to borrow from the PWLB can be answered only by politicians."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
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      "ID": 18301,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 604355,
      "EditedText": "I will be brief. Alan Ferguson touched on a number of questions related to borrowing and so on, which are crucial to the debate and which must be examined soon, in greater detail. Those issues underpin whether a meaningful strategy can be developed on the funding of new houses and the repair of existing houses.I would like to move away from the wider debate and ask questions of the witnesses. There is a question of size related to housing stock transfer. Seven local authorities—from very large to fairly small—are examining the possibilities. David Orr mentioned 80,000 homes—I took that to refer to Glasgow as a whole. It is not yet clear whether the benefits would accrue to a greater extent if housing were transferred as a block or in smaller units—it was suggested that there could be 30 housing organisations in Glasgow. Do the witnesses believe that it would be more appropriate for an authority such as Glasgow to transfer as a block or in smaller units? What would be the differences in the effects?I would also like to ask all three witnesses what they think the future holds for local authorities as landlords—if there is a future in that respect—if the housing stock transfer goes through.I have seen in the evidence some comments about local authorities receiving a so-called golden share. Would that bring any potential borrowing back within the public sector borrowing requirement? I do not see why that should necessarily be the case. Could a mechanism be devised within the suggested tripartite system whereby local authorities could punch above their weight?When I have spoken to tenants about their needs, most say that they want to stay in local authority housing. They do not believe that, because they are participating, they will be masters of their own destinies. They see that as a myth because the housing professionals make the decisions. What is the likely future of local authorities as landlords?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 604359,
      "EditedText": "The evidence of the large-scale voluntary transfer analysis commissioned by Scottish Homes is that LSVT delivers better participation and control for tenants. I urge members to read \"An Evaluation of Scottish Homes Large Scale Voluntary Transfers\", which demonstrates that such participation has been improved.We are talking about giving people opportunities. People have the opportunity to vote for Michael McGlynn in South Lanarkshire. Some people will take that opportunity, others will not. Everyone has the opportunity to stand as a councillor. Only a few people will take that opportunity, but it is there for everyone. It is legitimate for housing organisations to say that they want their tenants to have the opportunity to be in control. If they want to spend their time behind the door, enjoying their tenancy, that is fine as well. The evidence shows that tenants are in control of the organisations, which enhances the possibilities for engaging with the local community."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 604361,
      "EditedText": "I would like to step back from the detail, although the detail has been helpful for the discussions that we will have. I come from Glasgow, as all of you know, and I am very concerned about the future of the city. If we consider housing in its social and economic context, we see that housing is critical to economic regeneration, as you have said, Alan.People have told me that the recent housing developments that the Executive has announced have unleashed a new dynamism and have enabled us to have a debate about getting investment into housing. The days of massive public investment in housing are gone and there is no point in going back to them. Scotland and Glasgow need a partnership in housing. If areas of Glasgow are to be regenerated, we will need to introduce mixed tenure of housing, bring back jobs and introduce a dynamism at a community level and at the level of economic infrastructure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 604374,
      "EditedText": "Among the tenants groups that have been invited to give evidence, have we included the authors of the Glasgow campaign against the housing stock transfer report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 604385,
      "EditedText": "Anyone who dares to suggest an increase in the work load will be in deep trouble. I ask that group to try to get together. I liked the idea of it—it has cross-party representation and there is a substantial amount of in-depth work that needs to be considered. I said before that there is no need to rush at that work full tilt, as we have such a pressing legislative agenda. However, the group must start to function. With the exception of Bill Aitken, who has left, could the members of that group stay behind? They say that they will, but they never do. We have discussed voluntary sector issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 604389,
      "EditedText": "That might be a fairer approach, given that some members are not here. Could we circulate the paper today?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
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      "ID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 604391,
      "EditedText": "The paper should be discussed between Karen and the people who are to be on the voluntary sector group, to see whether it can be firmed up into recommendations to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604396",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 604396,
      "EditedText": "Can we discuss research needs now, as it seems to be an appropriate time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
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      "ID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 604399,
      "EditedText": "The Official Report shows that we took a view that we would not agree to setting up a sub-committee yet, but that we would undertake our work on drug misuse. When we have concluded that work, we may well change our view and agree that there is a need for an all-party group. Can we conduct our inquiry and return to that issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604401",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 604401,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other issues on sub-committees? I will move on to our meeting on research needs. It might be worth our while having an informal half-hour meeting on quantifying and defining our research needs to give SPICe a steer. However, we need to give notice if we are going to go into private session for that item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604403",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 604403,
      "EditedText": "Why do we need to meet in private?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 604404,
      "EditedText": "The committee does not have to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 604408,
      "EditedText": "I had a chat with Martin yesterday and suggested that, instead of meeting SPICe and throwing everything into the air, it would be particularly useful if the members of the four sub-groups could feed in suggestions to Martin, who could then produce a draft paper on our research needs. Our half-hour meeting would be based around a paper, instead of being some blue-sky affair that tends to turn a half hour into two hours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 604409,
      "EditedText": "That is a very helpful suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 604414,
      "EditedText": "I am living for the day at the moment. Are we getting papers for that seminar?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 604415,
      "EditedText": "It is a briefing seminar. I do not know whether the speakers will provide papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 604417,
      "EditedText": "Committee room 2. We agreed at a previous meeting to have these briefing sessions on 15 November and 22 November from 10 am to 4 pm."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18302,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 604420,
      "EditedText": "Well, I have been liaising with her."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 604421,
      "EditedText": "So when is the meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 604430,
      "EditedText": "I was just asking as a point of information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 604432,
      "EditedText": "Do we know who is coming to the first session on warrant sales?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18303,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 366.0,
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      "ID": 18303,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 604434,
      "EditedText": "The fourth agenda item concerns the committee timetable. Martin and I have been doing some work on the issue of warrant sales. We have sent out some invitations to get us under way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18303,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18303,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 604437,
      "EditedText": "We will have to split things up because so many people will be putting in submissions. There will be a lot of written and oral evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18303,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 366.0,
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      "ID": 18303,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 604439,
      "EditedText": "I think that 25 organisations have indicated that they want to give evidence, but they have not specified whether the evidence will be written or oral. Five have said that they will give oral evidence. Roseanna Cunningham, Trish Godman and I will get a balance for the committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18300,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 604266,
      "EditedText": "Have all the other points been actioned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 604292,
      "EditedText": "The issue of finance is critical, and it is an aspect in which we are particularly interested. Because of Glasgow's existing income stream, it could be argued that the City of Glasgow Council could achieve the same investment by its own means if the debt was written off without the stock transfer. I would like to hear your views on that. You have told us about community ownership, but the key is improving the stock. The argument that is being put to us for stock transfer is that that is the only way in which finance can be raised. If the debt was transferred and the stock remained with the City of Glasgow Council, the same level of investment could be afforded over the same period. The key is the transfer of debt, not the transfer of the stock. I invite your comments on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 604372,
      "EditedText": "As I am working on housing with John McAllion, who is absent today, I suggest that I talk through the Official Report of this meeting with him to highlight some of the issues on which we will want to keep a watching brief. The meeting was quite wide-ranging, but we touched on some of the absolutely key areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 10 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18299,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18299,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 604260,
      "EditedText": "As is traditional, I welcome members and visitors to the meeting. Yet again, we have a full agenda—that seems to be our war cry these days—and a timetable has been added to the committee papers so that we have some indication of how this morning's substantial business will be managed. I have noted what members have said about the need for thorough questioning of witnesses and I shall try to ensure that that can happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 604263,
      "EditedText": "At some point, the committee will need to decide what its research needs are. We can pursue your point about existing information being made available to us, and we will include a debate on research needs in a forthcoming agenda. Martin Verity informs me that SPICe is keen to know what our research needs are, so members should begin to think about that and we will return to the point. I will draft a letter to Wendy Alexander, as Alex suggests, on behalf of the committee. Keith Raffan and I have met to discuss a range of drugs issues. Everyone in the committee should be involved in that, and I will refer the matter to our seminar on Monday. There is a raft of issues to be considered and I shall raise them there to avoid taking up time today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 604269,
      "EditedText": "That is one of the big structural issues that we now face. Because we have taken on such a heavy work load, there is a knock-on effect on the poor clerks and the official report. I was asking about that informally before the meeting began. The Official Report of last week's meeting was published only yesterday, was it not, Martin?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 604276,
      "EditedText": "So if we know it is there, we can download it ourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18300,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 604280,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 604285,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We will explore those issues with you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 604295,
      "EditedText": "Listening to David, I remember crossing swords with him years ago at a conference. I totally disagreed with his viewpoint then.How do we finance the work that badly needs to be done on the stock to bring it up to date and, as you say, meet the demand for new build? If we consider one of the areas with poorer-quality housing stock—for example, in Glasgow—do you think that lenders will lend to any organisation, whether it is one or half a dozen, when the stock is of such poor quality? Will you comment on that?On the options other than stock transfers to invest money, Alan Ferguson mentioned the arm's-length companies and the way that they operate in Europe. Could you give us an insight into that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 604296,
      "EditedText": "I will answer the question about lenders and Alan will talk about corporations.Lenders will be anxious to lend money on some of the poorest-quality housing, provided that the income stream is sustainable. The issue is not the quality of stock that they are lending against, as their security is not in the bricks and mortar. Even in the case of good-quality stock, lenders will be concerned if they do not get the income stream. They do not want to become the owners of that housing and have to manage large estates anywhere in Scotland. The income stream is the critical part.In terms of getting a balance of investment so that the poorest housing gets the most investment, we must be creative in how we put together packages that make sense financially. To get the degree of borrowing that will be necessary on some of the poorest stock, there must be balanced packages that include better-quality stock or some kind of dowry; otherwise, the whole package will not work. It is possible, however, and the lenders have plenty of stomach for it.The two matters that will give lenders cause for concern are nothing to do with the quality of the housing stock: they are whether there are going to be significant changes to housing benefit that will impact on the income stream and whether there is any extension to the right to buy, which constitutes additional risk. That is more important than the quality of the bricks and mortar."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 604297,
      "EditedText": "On the lenders, the rental income is one of the key issues, but it is also about the strength of the business plan and regulation. Part of the issue is that we must move from contractual regulation of housing associations to statutory regulation because that would give comfort to the lenders in any transfer, including the transfer of poor-quality housing.On arm's-length companies, one of the key areas of work of the Chartered Institute of Housing in Scotland over the past eight years or so has been about considering the changing of the Treasury rules. We have examined the rules in Europe and what we have here. Local authorities being able to borrow is called public expenditure; housing association borrowing is not called public expenditure. It seems easy to say that we should change the system and let local authorities borrow, but it is not as easy as that. Even if we were to move towards a more European definition of public expenditure, that would not enable councils to go out and borrow the money. Even if they could, could they, as Fiona mentioned, service that debt anyway without write-offs?We have argued that we should move towards a European definition of public expenditure, but under those rules that would still involve the transfer of the stock to an arm's-length company. However, the difference would be that the council would still own the houses, whereas, in the current stock transfers, ownership transfers from the council to another body: the housing association, housing trust or housing co-operative. The difficulty is that Westminster and the Treasury do not want to consider changing those rules. Even if they did, it would not enable the Western Isles Council, Glasgow City Council or the City of Edinburgh Council to borrow what they wanted. It would still involve a transfer. There would still be a ballot and issues about tenants' rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 604304,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that we should try to stop the right to buy from the moment when the new system comes into being, nor am I suggesting that it should be linked to stock transfer. I am suggesting that, regardless of whether we transfer houses from councils to housing associations, the housing economy in Scotland now needs to retain balance. The right to buy should, therefore, be discontinued for all new tenancies, but not for anyone who has it at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 604310,
      "EditedText": "Can I ask a supplementary question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 604312,
      "EditedText": "On the single social tenancy, the question of whether the right to buy or security of tenancy concerned tenants was raised. Do people know how highly lenders rank such matters? One can readily understand that they are important to tenants, but I cannot quite see why they should make much difference for funding. Perhaps David Orr of the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations will want to answer that.Alan Ferguson dealt with strategy. From everything that has been said, it is clear that there needs to be a local strategy to address housing, employment, and matters such as empty land and the need for new building. Should housing associations have a broader remit in such matters? I have been told that limitations on employing welfare rights workers and so on inhibit the role of housing associations in regeneration.Are stock transfer proposals in places such as Glasgow, where the whole housing stock is being transferred, compatible with present community controls? Alan Ferguson talked about the conflict caused by Scottish Homes being both the funder and the regulator. What are people's views on that? Is there unanimity across the housing bodies on whether there should be a division between regulation and funding?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 604316,
      "EditedText": "My first two questions are for COSLA. What will happen if the tenants say no in the ballot? What is likely to happen to the council direct labour organisations—the repair, care and maintenance groups—when the new housing partnerships and companies are created?My third question is for David Orr. Do you have any fears that the legislation that is required for the creation of the new housing companies—whatever form they take—will affect current legislation on housing associations? Will you be forced into a situation where housing association stock will also become available for right to buy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 604325,
      "EditedText": "Can I come back to you? That is the advantage of being in the chair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 604326,
      "EditedText": "It is the only one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 604328,
      "EditedText": "There are very few guarantees of that. However, 100 housing associations and co-ops are run by committees of tenants. Those committees and the senior staff who work with them are quite clear about where decision making is taking place. Housing associations get into considerable difficulty if the regulators believe that the committee is not in control. That is one of the fundamental elements of the performance audit framework. Of course, housing professionals have considerable influence, and I believe that they should advise their committees. In most cases, because a relationship of trust has built up between the employed staff and the committee, the recommendations of staff will be accepted. However, that is by no means always the case.That is not the key difficulty. The tenants who are involved in the committees are in control. The wider issue is how much the tenants who are not on the committees engage in the process of electing people to those committees and participate in the day-to-day running of the committees. Some organisations do that well and some do it less well. More work needs to be done. The issue of how to ensure that tenants have the opportunity to participate at whatever level they wish will arise whether housing is provided by councils or by housing associations. However, I can assure you that those committees are in control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 604329,
      "EditedText": "Could Michael McGlynn answer the question about the partnership aspects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 604331,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. People are champing at the bit to participate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 604333,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry Cathie, but people have been waiting and they have been very patient. I know that this situation is pressured and that this happens every week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 604339,
      "EditedText": "I will let Alan Ferguson talk about the general Government funding deficit. On rigidity and labour mobility, we would like new housing partnerships and all the other social policy instruments that relate to housing to be part of a proper strategy, rather than being concerned solely with housing. The issue is not just about bricks and mortar. Local authority proposals for new housing partnerships should address the way in which they would fit in with economic development strategies, with employment generation strategies and with education strategies, as Michael McGlynn said. They should say how they will contribute to mobility and how they will make it easier for people to engage in their communities. Housing never exists in isolation; it always relates to other aspects of social policy. If new housing partnerships are tactical, there is a danger of them being dangerous. If they are strategic and properly thought through, they can be extremely successful. On quality and investment, I believe that investing in maintenance is important. Because of annual accounting, and because there was no prospect of resource accounting, previous Administrations have insisted that we spend as little as possible at the outset because that capital expenditure is never accounted over the long term, but always from revenue. Things that we could have done to invest in quality up front, and which would have led to longer-term life for buildings, have not been done, so there are now maintenance problems that must be resolved. Again, I hope that the new housing partnerships will have a part to play in dealing with that. The forward thinking must include not just the amount that is being invested in stock, but the long-term maintenance programme for the stock for the remainder of its useful life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 604340,
      "EditedText": "Keith's party's Dahrendorf committee recognised early on that a change of rules was required to get more investment into housing. We have produced a number of reports over the years and have had a number of discussions with Gordon Brown and with Treasury officials about the whole idea of changing the rules. However, at the moment we are getting nowhere. Although we will still argue for it, we know that we must also consider other routes. We have considered the private finance initiative and the issue of stock transfer, to see how we can get money into housing to improve the properties that are available. Putting more money into housing will not just improve bricks and mortar or people's quality of life; it will create jobs. That is important, but we must consider whether, when huge increases in resources become available, there is enough labour to do the work. We are all aware that there is a danger that the quality might reduce, and we must ensure that that does not happen. That ties in with Robert Brown's earlier point about the broader remit of housing associations. A number of housing associations, such as Albyn, Care and Perthshire, have considered the possibility of creating apprenticeships and jobs as part of their development programmes. We are concerned not just about housing, but about the wider regeneration of communities. That includes the creation of jobs and the improvement of housing and of people's quality of life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 604341,
      "EditedText": "Following on from what Alan said, one of the points that members will all accept is that the cuts in the housing budget have contributed to unemployment in Scotland. I suspect that between 15,000 and 20,000 jobs have been lost directly and indirectly through the cuts in construction.I will go back to first principles on funding. We are all agreed that there is a housing crisis in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 604343,
      "EditedText": "I hope that we are agreed on that. We are all agreed that money is not, of itself, the solution, but without the money and the investment we will not be able to solve the housing crisis. The question is where will the money come from.I am not opposed in principle to transfer of stock from one kind of social ownership to another. What concerns me is the role of private finance in the current proposals on stock transfer.I will ask two or three questions about that. Scottish Homes gave evidence last week; I was astonished that nobody had done the calculation on the leverage and on the additional cost over 20, 30 or 40 years of getting funding from the private sector. Clearly, the private sector is investing to get a return.I return to the points made by David Orr. One of the problems with the right to buy is that those who exercised it were primarily people living in council houses who had an income stream that would allow them to buy. It was an incentive for them to build up capital. By the same token, private investors will invest only in areas where they think that the income stream is sufficiently secure. Will we repeat the mistakes of right to buy and end up with ghettos where the private lender will not go? From the point of view of social inclusion, will not that make matters worse rather than better?Secondly, will we not pay through the nose for the pleasure of engaging in such an arrangement? By definition, the traditional Public Works Loan Board route was far cheaper than going to the market. Are we not dodging the issue of the need to increase substantially public investment in housing, which David Orr touched on?The other basic principle is that we should allocate investment—however it is financed—according to housing need, yet challenge funding and private sector lending will channel resources to areas where there is an opportunity for a return on private investment rather than to the areas of need. That concerns me, because we should be targeting resources at the areas of need.My final point is on the housing benefit changes, which have been mentioned. We should not kid ourselves: this Parliament has limited powers in relation to those matters. There are three key areas in which we have limited powers; we should not kid ourselves otherwise. First, two thirds of the public spend on housing in Scotland is through housing benefit, which is controlled from Westminster. The Minister for Communities told us at our first meeting with her that she had no policy on housing benefit reform. Secondly, if changes in the public sector borrowing requirement were ever to come about, under the present arrangements, we have no power over that. Thirdly, if we were to reallocate another £300 million or £400 million to housing, that would be impossible to do under the block grant, unless the amount came from the war chest. Let us not be under any delusion that we can solve the housing crisis in Scotland, given the minimal powers of this Parliament. Within those constraints, will you answer my points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 604351,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about private lenders. We asked Scottish Homes to come up with a comparison, because we want to examine the impact on the public purse before we decide to go down that road. Scottish Homes does not appear to have done that. Has any of the organisations here today done any analysis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 604357,
      "EditedText": "It is horses for courses. I do not think that the professionals can determine all that in advance. Local authorities, working with their tenants and partner organisations, need to sort out for themselves what is best. The proposed transfer in the Borders is now focusing on a merger between Scottish Borders housing department and an existing housing association, to create a new organisation. In Orkney, it may well be sensible to have a single transfer, although I, personally, would like to have some form of islands committees and I have discussed that with the director of Orkney Housing Association. That is where local identity is important.We should not decide strategy centrally. Local authorities must be in control of strategic decisions, working in partnership with their tenants and partner organisations. There is unanimous agreement that local authorities should be the strategic bodies that determine the housing plan. Those plans need to be improved; they should be the fundamental document that determines housing investment and strategy in the area.We need to identify the objectives, be clear about the strategy and then discuss who is best able to deliver. That may be housing associations or it may be the local authority. Mike Watson is perfectly correct to say that there are some areas of Scotland where there will be no incentives for tenants to transfer, and why should they? It is not about taking the landlord role away from local authorities: it is about who will provide the best service. I keep hearing the argument that tenants do not want to be involved in the management of their housing. I reject that argument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18301,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 604358,
      "EditedText": "I did not say that they did not want to be involved. I said that they did not believe that they would have a meaningful role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 604362,
      "EditedText": "Broadly, I agree with that. The fact of creating the debate about housing investment leads to an examination of the impact of the debate. One of the major problems that we have is that money disappears in our peripheral estates: it arrives, it gets spent six times and it disappears. In the rest of the economy the same pound will change hands something like 23 times. Organisations such as credit unions make an impact in that environment, as do housing associations and local authorities that provide cheap contents insurance for their tenants.We have to think through those things. If there is to be an investment in housing stock in Easterhouse, is that where unemployed people will be best placed to gain access to the new jobs that are being created at the Eurocentral site? We have to engage in a process of joined-up thinking. There is considerable evidence that once people are engaged as committee members in housing associations, they take the skills that they have learned to other community organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604364",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 604364,
      "EditedText": "Social inclusion, in other words."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 604365,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 604373,
      "EditedText": "I will come on to the role of reporters shortly. I will need a steer from reporters on how we pursue issues.In the meantime, it is the committee's view that we will continue to hear evidence before we take a decision on how we take things forward. Fiona Hyslop will communicate with John McAllion, who will keep us informed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 604375,
      "EditedText": "I refer that to John McAllion, as I do not want to disrupt our timetable again. We had a paper on housing, which, I think, covered tenants' views, although I cannot remember the details Let us refer the matter back to ensure that tenants' views are represented.Anybody who has been at these meetings will know why I get so exasperated. We might not get out before 4 o'clock if I do not take a firm line.I thank the witnesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 604376,
      "EditedText": "When we conclude taking evidence, it might be helpful to ask John McAllion formally to report to the committee, with Fiona's assistance, on how we pursue our work on housing. It might be useful to hear the evidence first. We asked John to produce a programme of work, which we are now working through. We need to revisit the issue once we have done some of the work. Members should consider how we pursue the issue, as it will obviously remain on the agenda.I will move on to the social inclusion part of the paper. It is obvious that a substantial agenda is outlined there. We have been trying to get the social inclusion ad hoc group together, but without much success."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 604380,
      "EditedText": "We keep referring to the programme of work but, according to the paper on the remit of reporters, we agreed at our meeting on 23 August that proposals to initiate a programme of work would be brought back to the committee. I do not remember whether that happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 604383,
      "EditedText": "We can return to that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 604384,
      "EditedText": "At least that might get things moving. I am not trying to increase the work load, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 604386,
      "EditedText": "A couple of weeks ago, I asked for a clearer definition of my role as the voluntary sector reporter. Lloyd Quinan raised the issue again last week. I am concerned about the paper on the remit of reporters. It does not reflect my recollection of what happened at the committee meeting when I was appointed as the reporter and at which we had a long debate about whether we should have a sub-group on the voluntary sector. While I want to take these issues forward, before I do anything I want to be clear that I have the agreement of the whole committee to undertake that work. I have written a short paper that I would like to circulate, which outlines my ideas about what I should be doing. It is entirely up to committee members to decide whether to take my paper away and to come back to it at a later meeting or to read it quickly. I am conscious that a number of members of the committee are not here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 604400,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we should keep our eye on it—particularly in view of the moves that other committees are making—and review the position around Easter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 604402,
      "EditedText": "There is no problem with having a formal private meeting. The clerks will minute the conclusions, but the official report will not log every word that is said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 604405,
      "EditedText": "I suggested an informal meeting because we will have more of an exchange with SPICe about our research needs. If members from SPICe are called before the committee, it becomes a procedural issue. The meeting will be informal, rather than private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 604406,
      "EditedText": "You do not need to give notice of an informal meeting, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 604407,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 604411,
      "EditedText": "Can Martin give us some idea about the budget? If our four submissions put us way over budget, we will need to prioritise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
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      "ID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 604416,
      "EditedText": "Where is the meeting taking place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 604418,
      "EditedText": "Has SPICe provided any more information for these meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 604422,
      "EditedText": "It is on Monday, from 10 to 4."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 604423,
      "EditedText": "From 10 to 4?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 604427,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 604428,
      "EditedText": "Are we having a break for lunch?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 604429,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but you are getting only five minutes, Keith; the rest of us are getting half an hour.At the previous meeting, I said that those sessions would mean a substantial commitment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 604433,
      "EditedText": "I will stop you there, Alex. That issue comes up in the next agenda item.I think that we have covered the third item on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18303,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ID": 18303,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 604436,
      "EditedText": "I take it that we will not be duplicating the work of other committees. That would be crazy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18303,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ID": 18303,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 604443,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. It is 12.25 pm. I think that that is a record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 10 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18299,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18299,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 604259,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:04"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 604261,
      "EditedText": "I intend to stick rigidly to the timetable this morning, so we will move straight to the action points from our previous meeting. Most of the points are self-explanatory, but do any members have questions about them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 604265,
      "EditedText": "I take it that most of the other points are clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18300,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 604270,
      "EditedText": "The official report produces a schedule of when it expects reports to be produced. I can circulate that to members on a weekly basis if they want me to. Committee reports will usually be published within a week, but priority must be given to the business of the full chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 604273,
      "EditedText": "I can look at them on the web."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 604274,
      "EditedText": "When you talk about the availability of the Official Report, are you talking about its availability in printed form or on the web? Is it published in both formats simultaneously?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 604275,
      "EditedText": "It goes on the web first, before we get the printed copies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 604277,
      "EditedText": "There are difficulties with the weekly meeting timetable. As I have said previously, committee members have difficulties—unless they are on only one committee—because parliamentary staff are unable to cope with the number of reports they have been asked to prepare, so we receive papers the night before meetings. That means that we are less than prepared. When we get through the heavy agenda that we have programmed, we should review how the weekly cycle of meetings has operated in our attempts to study issues in depth."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 604278,
      "EditedText": "We will put your points on the agenda and deal with them once we have dealt with the current programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr (Scottish Federation of Housing Associations): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 604284,
      "EditedText": "I am the director of the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations and I am grateful to you all for giving us the opportunity to speak to you today.SFHA is committed to exploring means to deliver high-quality affordable housing for rent. That sounds as if I am stating the obvious, but I am a great believer in doing that because, in debates about structures, ownership, policies and so on, the obvious sometimes gets lost. Being clear about what we are trying to deliver is extremely important.We need a housing market that strikes a balance between opportunities for home ownership and renting. We are anxious about the fact that opportunities for home ownership take precedence in our current market. There is a growing sense that rented housing is a last resort. That notion contributes to social exclusion.We think that it is very important to consider ways in which new investment can be found for our disgracefully poor-quality housing stock. Committee members are familiar with the statistics and I will not repeat them. Our housing stock is unacceptably poor. We are always happy to consider mechanisms to bring in new investment. We are particularly pleased that Government policy, the green paper and the work of this committee is exploring community empowerment and ownership. We believe that those mechanisms deliver not only good-quality affordable housing for rent, but are major factors in combating social exclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson (Chartered Institute of Housing in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 604286,
      "EditedText": "I am the director of the Chartered Institute of Housing in Scotland and like my colleagues I am very pleased to give evidence to the committee this morning.The institute is a professional body of people working in housing, across all tenures. Our key aims are to ensure the provision of decent affordable housing and high-quality service. Our activities involve everything from conferences and training to publications and policy statements. Part of our work is about exploring ways of getting new money into housing.As colleagues have said, it is clear that there has been a reduction in housing resources. Along with other organisations, the institute has been trying to promote and investigate other ways to get money into housing, from considering Treasury rules on public expenditure to using private finance initiatives and stock transfer.At the moment, under the current public expenditure rules, there are few options apart from stock transfer. However, we might consider stock transfer as a way of getting more money into housing. That is not just for the sake of it, but to improve the quality of housing. Currently, the quality is fairly poor—many tenants live with dampness and condensation in energy-inefficient housing. We need investment to address that.The institute is also about improving tenants rights. That is why we support the introduction of a single tenancy that builds on the existing rights of tenants and includes a right to participation for all tenants in the social sector. It is also about improving the service. There is no point investing in bricks and mortar if we do not improve the service as well. That is a key element and needs to be tied into ensuing regulation across the social rented sector. By that I mean the regulation of housing associations, new social landlords and local authorities, and ensuring consistent standards and provision of a decent quality service across the board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
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      "EditedText": "I have several points to make about that. For years, we have all been saying that we need to find new ways of acquiring investment in housing. A strategy is being developed that is specifically designed to acquire such investment, and the transfer of ownership is a part of that strategy. We should not consider that either good or bad as a matter of political philosophy, but either good or bad in respect of the quality of service that is delivered. Because the assumed valuation of the stock in the Glasgow transfer is relatively small—minuscule, really—it could be argued that if the debt disappeared, Glasgow could invest. The question must then be asked: would the City of Glasgow Council, as a single organisation, make a better or a poorer job of investing in 90,000 houses than smaller, locally controlled organisations? I believe that it would make a poorer job of it than if that investment were transferred to smaller, locally controlled organisations, and there is evidence to support that view.This issue concerns not only Glasgow, but the whole of Scotland. The outstanding debt is £4 billion. If that is paid entirely out of the public purse, that is fine. I would not argue against that. However, if the stock was transferred and the equity that is there was released through the process of transfer, there would be a cost to the public purse of only £2 billion. That seems to be a significant issue. How else can the equity be tapped into—and there is equity in the 600,000 council houses in Scotland—as a means of delivering some of the investment that is required? I am also anxious that the debate is focused wholly on stock transfer. This committee is examining stock transfer. For the record, I want to say that improving the quality of existing council housing stock is a significant part of improving our housing overall. However, we need new build. In some areas there is a shortage of rented housing. We need to consider strategies for developing more balanced housing markets, both locally and nationally. We must consider all the issues that relate to stock transfer. Like Alan Ferguson, we have considered general Government funding deficit and other ways in which the rules could be changed. I am reluctant to call a halt to a process that could deliver a lot of new investment while the Treasury will not change the rules. There is potential for major delay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 604294,
      "EditedText": "Fiona, I have not lost sight of the point that you raised about COSLA. I will let Cathie in on that specific point, but we will come back to the COSLA point."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 604300,
      "EditedText": "I would like to explore the right-to-buy issue. I will then come on to the other points about stock transfer."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 604309,
      "EditedText": "The issue of owners where councils transfer stock is causing difficulties right across the board. Cumbernauld is the most extreme example as 70 per cent of homes in some tower blocks are owner-occupied. In the second round of the new housing partnership, resources were provided to authorities to deal with that problem.In the latest round of new housing partnerships the Government made it clear that new housing partnership money could not be used to provide grants to owners. We know that, for different reasons, including changes of priorities in local authorities, there have been cuts to the provision of improvement grants by councils. The problem is not just of what happens under stock transfer to tenants who have exercised the right to buy. There is also a significant problem with owners across the board.The house condition survey has shown a huge problem of disrepair, which requires a great amount of money to be spent on owner-occupied stock. As Cathie rightly points out, we are immediately faced with stock transfer. The problem is how to regenerate communities that have a large number of owners—in terraces or in blocks with four properties, or whatever—whose housing needs substantial work, but who do not have the resources to contribute to that work.That could hold up improvements to housing for council tenants, depending on the balance between council tenants and owners. It could also mean that there are many people on estates whose housing continues to decline because they are owners. That is a huge problem, which has been flagged up by councils and which Government is aware of, but for which no solutions have yet been proposed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 604313,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry for laughing, Robert, but those are substantial questions. We should give them a chance to answer. They are all writing furiously."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C604314",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 604314,
      "EditedText": "We undertook a major piece of work on the single social tenancy, part of which explored the views of lenders as well as tenants and landlords. Lenders were broadly supportive of moves towards a single tenancy. However, David has raised a concern held by all the groups here about extending the right to buy to housing association tenants and whether, as a result, lenders will be less keen to lend money for stock transfer.As for the Glasgow stock transfer, we believe that the issue is not about size, but about the affordability of rents, a decent quality of housing and service and ensuring the empowerment of tenants. Regardless of size, structures can be developed that involve tenants and give them control.We believe that there should be a single regulator to ensure that the same standards apply across the board. Why should similar tenants from similar backgrounds being housed by local authorities or housing associations have different rights? Why are there different rules and regulations? There should be one tenancy and one regulator to ensure standards, which will mean a split between regulation and funding. The local authority as strategic body has the resources to assess need and then to direct resources to meet that need. However, we have to build in safeguards to ensure that local authorities do that properly, which is where regulation becomes important."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 604318,
      "EditedText": "The Minister for Communities has told the steering group that there is no contingency plan if there is a \"no\" ballot result. Last week, I was in the western isles to speak to a Unison branch. The council's housing stock has been valued and, although it is in good condition, it has a low value—the issue is not about improvement but about new housing. The council will have to persuade tenants that they want to transfer, but not because they will get improvements, as the stock is seen as being in good condition. There might be service and rent guarantees, but future generations must be taken into account. Councillors and staff of the Western Isles Council are clearly concerned that tenants might say no in the ballot. How do we then get more money to the western isles to build the new houses that are needed? Michael McGlynn is right—we need to look at other ways of bringing in resources. There are two options for DLOs. The DLO could transfer with the stock and the housing staff, which has happened down south. Alternatively, the DLO could consider setting up a separate company and transferring work out, which is seen by some as a positive step, as the DLO could take on the private sector in other jobs and win contracts. A number of councils seem to be exploring those issues."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604323",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 604323,
      "EditedText": "I will let Keith intervene in a moment, but I wanted to ask—"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 604324,
      "EditedText": "Excuse me, convener, Michael McGlynn did not answer my question."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C604330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McGlynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
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      "EditedText": "On stock that transfers to housing associations, the partnership aspect depends on the individual local authorities and housing associations. David Orr and the SFHA will have a list of unreasonable councils that do not work well in partnership with housing associations. Councils probably have a similar list of housing associations that they find to be unreasonable.The relationships between organisations depend on the relationships between individuals, such as that between housing association directors and the people with whom they deal in the council. Clearly, some councils have great relationships with the housing associations within their boundaries, regardless of whether the associations are community based, the Margaret Blackwood or Loreto housing associations or whatever. In some areas, the relationships are not good—that is because of individuals who have created their own empires over the years and do not want to share anything.COSLA and the councils have a problem with housing associations in relation to homelessness. Given the amount of housing stock that they have, housing associations take a minuscule number of homeless people—in effect, they do not take homeless people. COSLA has made it clear that under the new housing partnership transfers we would support Shelter's call for statutory letting orders, because there must be protection for some of the community care groups and homeless people. We have made it clear to housing associations in the past that they must take their share of the burden of people coming through our doors. In some areas the assistance is good and in some it is bad."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 604334,
      "EditedText": "But I stayed quiet last week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 604336,
      "EditedText": "I can assure you that that is most unlikely."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 604337,
      "EditedText": "I agree.You take a radical position on the right to buy and its extension. I am concerned by the economic impact. We are not paying for labour mobility. It is ironic that the Conservative party, which is a great admirer of the United States of America, whose economy rests on labour mobility, introduced a right-to-buy policy in this country that reduced labour mobility. The measure increased rigidity in the labour market. That is an important issue and the debate on it should continue. I would like you to comment on that.My second point relates to Alan Ferguson's extraordinarily bold and brave fight for the European definition of public expenditure to be used as opposed to the public sector borrowing requirement. Long may he continue the battle, because many of us would like to see the European definition used. As I am my party's finance spokesman, I would like him to tell us more about that fight and about the work that his organisation has been doing. The PSBR dogs us completely. We get policies such as the private finance initiative, which, with its inadequacies, try to circumvent the PSBR. I do not want to get into that subject, but it has a direct impact on resources for local authorities.We have touched on my third point already. My experience as an MP has led me to be worried by the dramatic cuts and sudden increases in housing expenditure. I saw such fluctuations in the private sector with housing improvement grants. Because there was such a sudden increase in the amount of money that was available to the private sector for improvements, a lot of cowboys came on to the scene and there were improvements that were not worthy of the name. What concerns me at the moment about all parts of the public sector, including our housing stock and school buildings stock, is the complete collapse of maintenance. That has implications for the future, when huge increases in expenditure will be essential because elementary maintenance has not been carried out when it should have been, so that, instead of repainting a window, one has to replace the whole damn thing. That example brings the situation down to its essentials, but the costs are huge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 604349,
      "EditedText": "I believe that they would."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 604346,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the remit of the committee is within the powers of the Scottish Parliament. I understand the point that you are making about housing benefit, because you make it at every committee meeting. I must ask those giving evidence to stay within the powers of the Scottish Parliament. You can make comments about housing benefit because it is directly relevant, but we are not reopening a debate about whether we should have independence or a Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 604347,
      "EditedText": "On allocation according to need, we agree that the fundamental decision should be about where the need is greatest. There is a danger that challenge funding will—as Michael McGlynn said earlier—be given to the people who write the best proposals. Those of us who have been on the new housing partnership steering group have been aware of that and have tried to ensure that we were considering need as well as the quality of the submissions that were made. The Scottish Federation of Housing Associations has said separately to the Executive that it is important that we have proper long-term funding programmes that people can use to plan with certainty rather than challenge funding. There might be a place for challenge funding, but it should not be the predominant means of determining resource allocation in housing. Alex Neil referred to income stream and to whether we might have ghettos where private lenders refuse to lend. The stark reality is that the main income stream is from housing benefit. While housing benefit is available, lenders will be prepared to lend almost anywhere, because they believe that their income stream is secure. If major changes were made to housing benefit, which meant that lenders did not have that confidence in the income stream, they might walk away from certain areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 604350,
      "EditedText": "David is right about funding, but it is disappointing that authorities could not put strategic bids together. They should be able to do that and to put monitoring arrangements in place. Many of the bids that came in demonstrated that authorities could not do that, which is worrying, given that local authorities are seen as the strategic bodies at local level.There are problems with competitive bidding, and sometimes resources do not go to areas that need them, but it is disappointing that in the first two rounds of bidding, the councils could not put together strategic bids."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McGlynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 604356,
      "EditedText": "It is immaterial whether that stock goes to one large organisation or to a number of smaller ones. The benefit of the transfer depends on the quality of the organisations more than the size: the quality of the management, the tenant input and the repairs to houses. Those are the reasons for transferring stock. Tenants cannot get repairs done so they agree to transfer landlords in order that their homes can be improved with new windows, doors, roofs or whatever. It is not important to people whether the housing association has 200 members or 80,000 members. They are not interested in attending endless meetings. They would probably rather watch \"Coronation Street\" or the football. They are interested in getting their homes repaired and ensuring that they live in a house that is fit for the next millennium.COSLA's position has always been that each local authority should look at its own housing stock and at the best way to suit local people through local initiatives. That is our position and that is why we make no criticism of or comment on particular local authorities and how they conduct the business of stock transfers. We have argued over a number of years for a single housing plan. Government would have a national strategy, and there would be a local strategy, a single housing plan for an area, which could be devised by housing associations, other housing providers, private landlords and local authorities sitting around the table to work out how they can improve things for the people who live in their geographical area. That is what COSLA has been saying for the last number of years.There will be local authorities that have low debt and whose housing stock is in good condition. They may not wish to transfer their stock; their tenants may not wish them to transfer their stock. That is part of the strategy. There has to be a diversity of tenure and landlords to make the competition between organisations much more fruitful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 604360,
      "EditedText": "David Orr is right to say that strategies should be determined at a local level. My concern is that, as he said, we are currently making decisions centrally. If the Government's objective is value for money and to get the best possible receipt from any transfer, that may determine what happens at a local level. That is why some councils are considering wholesale transfer—partly because they have to consider the receipt that is generated. If that is not an objective, there is the possibility of many more smaller-scale transfers. The concern is that matters that will influence the local level are being decided centrally.Where councils transfer their stock, the local authority has no future as a landlord, although it has a future as a key strategic body. Local authorities can assess needs and how to meet them at a local level. They will still determine homelessness claims and make decisions on housing benefit. The green paper contains the argument about whether or not that strategic role should be enhanced to provide the development funding that would allow the council to move beyond identifying needs and start providing resources. All that is key, but the council has no role as a landlord if it transfers its stock.Mike Watson raised the issue of the amount of influence that the local authority can have on the new body. The institute has examined the idea of local housing companies and has promoted the idea that, if councils transferred stock, they should have influence on the new organisation. In Scotland, it would be possible for as much as 49 per cent of the committee—it would have to be a minority—to be made up of councillors or representatives from the council. The issue about the golden share is whether the local authority has a veto on some matters. If that is the case, that brings us back to the issue of the public sector borrowing requirement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 604363,
      "EditedText": "The history of regeneration in Scotland to date has been about regenerating housing, not about the other elements, in particular economic development. The research on the four partnership areas in Scotland has shown that housing has improved, but that other elements—jobs, education and skills—have fallen behind or have been forgotten. There is a move in the right direction with partnerships, holistic working and joined-up thinking, all of which try to ensure that we regenerate properly.The whole issue of developing communities is crucial. To some extent we have lost the pace on issues such as maximising income and ensuring that people maintain income through, for example, credit unions and food co-operatives. We need to get back on track, so that when we think about improving housing, we consider other things as well. Housing is not just for the sake of it. We want to ensure sustainable communities that have jobs, skills, good education, a good environment and good housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McGlynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
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      "EditedText": "I do not believe that it will mean the end of council housing. The point that I made earlier—COSLA is firm on this—is that we need horses for courses. We need a flexible approach. It is for local authorities, in conjunction with the people who live within their boundaries, to determine the best course of action. Even if councils start the transfer process, at the end of the day there will be a ballot and the tenants will decide. They have the final say. It is not the end of council housing by any means.We spoke about housing need being the indicator of where investment should go. I do not believe that that is absolutely true. Housing need is an indicator, but we cannot penalise councils that have spent money wisely over the years because of the problems that cities have. In today's debate, a number of people have concentrated on Glasgow. What about rural Scotland, north Lanarkshire, Fife, West Lothian and Midlothian? We cannot create national policies based on what happens in cities. There must be a national strategy and a single plan for the area, which councils create in conjunction with the Chartered Institute of Housing, the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations, all the housing associations within their boundaries, other agencies, the voluntary sector and the private sector. National policy cannot be based on what is happening in Glasgow or any other city.Fiona asked whether tenants have a choice. They do. The choice is yes or no, which may not be a comforting choice. We also spoke about public expenditure, not about public expenditure going to councils. Money comes in the form of grants. New partnerships between the councils and the housing associations within their boundaries can determine that expenditure. There are houses in south Lanarkshire to which it would make no difference if Whitsun Fairhurst or Blackburn spent £30,000 on them, because they have to come down. The houses are dilapidated. They are no good, and there is no point in the tenants staying there.We are talking about a flexible financial approach, with grant money going to councils, as well as to the people living within the local authority boundaries, to professional bodies such as the housing associations and the Chartered Institute of Housing which help councils spend their money in the best way. It is not just about getting vast sums of money; it is about making sure that, when it comes, it is spent in a wise and appropriate manner. The new housing partnership has created that. There is a board—which Alan Ferguson, David Orr and Kenny Simpson from COSLA are on—which sits with the Scottish Executive and scrutinises every bid that comes forward. There is therefore an output to what they do.Alan raised the point about what happened in the four partnership areas before. The levels of employment, skills, employment and education were no different, despite massive public expenditure. Everyone realises that that cannot go on much longer. We have to ensure that money is spent wisely. That is why we are saying that the fact that there is more public spending does not mean that local authorities will receive that finance. They may wish to pass it on to the housing association by parent funding, or by whatever means, so that they can do valuable work in the community.Alan also raised the point that there is no contingency plan for tenants who say no. That is very disappointing from our point of view. It creates a major problem for the council, and for the people in this committee and in the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604368",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 604368,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on Michael McGlynn's point about this not meaning the end of council housing. There is bankruptcy in council housing because of debt, low value, poor maintenance, lack of improvements and lack of resources. The question is how we deal with all that and improve existing housing or provide new housing. The biggest concern, particularly for rural areas, is how to provide new housing to house homeless people, to ensure that future generations are housed and to ensure that the wider community is maintained. The councils concerned do not need to transfer stock to improve housing; it is a matter of considering transfer as a way to bring more money in to build much needed housing. As Michael said, other options are not being presented, but we need to consider the options and to try to tap the resources that exist. I agree that it is a question of moving towards statutory regulation as soon as possible. All the organisations concerned agree with that. We need to move away from contractual regulation, which does not give as much comfort about the service—to lenders or to tenants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 604369,
      "EditedText": "I am one of the people around this table, Michael, who has tried hard to convince the committee that we have to address these housing issues. Today we are just talking about stock transfers in Glasgow, but the issue is much wider. You are speaking to the converted. I want to take up an issue that Michael McGlynn raised and, I hope, get comments from Alan Ferguson and David Orr. It is on homelessness. Michael said that relationships between housing associations and local authorities seem to break down. That has not been my experience. My experience in my area and that of my local council is that the housing associations and local authority have a good working relationship, in which nomination rights are negotiated. I want to hear from David on that.On the suggestion that councils do not have a future, do you agree that councils, as housing authorities, now have to meet the demands that exist? There might not always be the demand to allocate the houses and manage them, but councils will have to meet the demands of the people we were discussing earlier: the people who exercise their right to buy; who are getting older and want to have a house that meets their needs for retirement; or who want to move on, for whatever reason. I put this point to David Orr in particular—you might recognise it, as it comes from your document. You said that opposition to the new housing partnership initiative has often been misplaced and ill-informed. You go on to say that accusations of privatisation do not stand up to scrutiny and that a new housing partnership landlord cannot make a profit out of his activity. You go on and on. Laughter. Sorry, I did not mean it that way.We have received many briefings from the organisations; I thank you for that and hope that they keep coming. We have received a briefing from the Glasgow campaign against the housing stock transfer and we have been asked to commend the sound factual analysis that is in this research paper. The third paragraph says:\"Our opposition to the planned stock transfer is based on the view that the planned transfer involves incalculable risks to Glasgow tenants.\"Do you agree with that? How could I balance up the two pieces of research that I have received?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Orr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 604370,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not agree with that. I do not think that there are incalculable risks. There are risks for everyone involved, including tenants, whichever decision they make. However, the potential benefit of new housing partnerships—if we can get the local strategies right—is that they will create greater certainty about rent and service levels and what someone can expect to achieve from their landlord. I have read that research report and I do not agree that it is intellectually rigorous or properly thought through. I think that it is wrong. Rubbish is a good word for it. To respond to the question on homelessness, housing associations and local authorities have waiting lists. We both house people who are in housing need. There are not enough good-quality, affordable houses for rent for people who need them. There is a real problem of lack of supply. It is true that housing associations do not house a high proportion of people who are regarded as statutorily homeless, but they do house a high proportion of people who are not statutorily homeless, some of whom do not even get on to local authority waiting lists. That is not to be critical of local government. The way in which the housing legislation is worded leads us into arcane arguments about whether someone is statutorily homeless or non-statutorily homeless when in fact they do not have a decent house to live in. Forty per cent of housing association lets go to people who are homeless, but not statutorily homeless. We are engaged in a detailed piece of work with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on developing model contracts that define a series of different relationships between local authorities as strategic planners and housing associations as service delivery bodies. The first of those—which should be completed by July next year—will be on allocations and homelessness. The Scottish Federation of Housing Associations is keen that we should have robust mechanisms in place to ensure that landlord bodies properly assist local authorities to meet their statutory obligations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 604371,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I will move to a close, if that is okay. On behalf of the committee, thank you very much. If there is any further information that you wish to submit to us, please feel free to do so. I know that you submit information to individual members of the committee, but if you wish to submit written evidence to us, we would be more than willing to receive it. This is the first in a series of hearings on stock transfer and housing generally. I am sure that you appreciate that housing will be a big part of our agenda. We are trying to get through our agenda, but we will return to the issues that you have raised today and deal with them thoroughly. Thank you very much for the way in which you responded—it was most informative. You are free to go. Laughter. I wish I was. Laughter. We normally take a few minutes at the end of the evidence-taking part of the meeting to try to wrap it up so that it informs our agenda. One or two points came up. There are themes to which we will return again and again: issues to do with borrowing, private finance and community empowerment, for example. We will return to those when we consider who to hear evidence from in a few weeks' time. Is there anything members feel we might miss out, which they want to flag up now—or write to us about—to ensure that it stays on the agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 604377,
      "EditedText": "We tried to arrange a meeting for Friday morning, but that has not proved possible. I appreciate that Bill Aitken has had to leave the meeting, but it will be helpful if the other members of that group could stay behind so that we can arrange a meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 604378,
      "EditedText": "As I have said, because we are meeting weekly, we have set ourselves impossible agendas. We cannot even hold the meetings between committee meetings that we need to facilitate the work programme. We will get the social inclusion group together before we make formal decisions about the programme. We need to have a full committee discussion about the role of the group, but we ask the ad hoc group to come back with proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 604379,
      "EditedText": "Martin Verity has taken my point that, when we finish the current programme, we must consider whether holding weekly meetings is working out. It is difficult to be prepared properly—I might be unique in thinking this—if we are getting papers on the Monday and meeting on the Tuesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 604381,
      "EditedText": "I do not remember whether that happened, either. My view was that we would refer issues to the ad hoc group, but the group would have to be functioning in order for it to initiate a work programme. It has not been functioning, as we have not been able to get people together. It has been very difficult to set dates for that group. The group needs to start functioning and to initiate the work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 604382,
      "EditedText": "I wish to make a suggestion. I am not trying to put a spanner in the works—I am trying to be helpful. If it is difficult for that group to get together, perhaps the committee could consider the appointment of a reporter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 604387,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure how permissible that is, in terms of the committee's procedures. It should be a public paper and, technically, people must be given notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 604388,
      "EditedText": "The paper could come back to next week's meeting, as an item that arises from an action point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 604390,
      "EditedText": "It would be better if the paper could be circulated to all members, rather than just to the members who are here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
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      "ID": 18302,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 604392,
      "EditedText": "That is an excellent suggestion. It will be circulated to all members, Karen will consult the people on the group and recommendations will be made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 604393,
      "EditedText": "Can I add my name informally to those of members of the group? I am my party's voluntary sector spokesman, so I would quite like to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 604394,
      "EditedText": "You are the party's spokesman for quite a lot of things, Keith."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 604395,
      "EditedText": "We do not have hosts of members—we have to quadruple up. We offer quality, not quantity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 604397,
      "EditedText": "Can you hold back on that, Alex? I want to finish with this paper and then I will come back to research needs. We are looking at sub-committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 18302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 604398,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to recollect what our discussion was about—I do not want to upset you, convener. I think that the committee should be aware that there is a move, in other committees, to set up a sub-committee on drugs. I know that Richard Simpson is particularly keen on that idea and that you are going to have a word with him, convener.The convener of the Health and Community Care Committee, with whom I had a word, shares our view that we should allow the existing committee system to settle down before we set up sub-committees. I sat in on a Parliamentary Bureau meeting and I think that that is the view of bureau members as well. The idea was to monitor the situation to see how it develops. There is a cross-cutting ministerial group on drug misuse, but there is no cross-cutting parliamentary committee. I do not want to get involved in a debate about that now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2507137+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters (Remit)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 604410,
      "EditedText": "I agree, Margaret, otherwise we could all come with a huge wish list, which would make it difficult for us to agree on anything in such a short period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 604412,
      "EditedText": "On a point of information, convener. Is the seminar on Monday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604413",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 604413,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604419",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 604419,
      "EditedText": "Sue Morris has been liaising with Keith and me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604424",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 604424,
      "EditedText": "I keep telling you. We keep agreeing these things."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604425",
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    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 604425,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. I was not disagreeing—although 10 to 12 might have been enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604426",
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    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    },
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      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 604426,
      "EditedText": "And is there a meeting on 22 November as well?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604431",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 604431,
      "EditedText": "That is all right, Keith."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 366.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 604435,
      "EditedText": "We are inviting the Lothian Anti-Poverty Alliance/Communities Against Poverty network next week. The clerks of the three committees involved in this issue are trying to arrange a meeting for tomorrow morning with the conveners of those committees to divide up the oral evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604438",
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      "ID": 3355
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 604438,
      "EditedText": "How many organisations have indicated that they want to give oral evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604440",
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    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 604440,
      "EditedText": "The timetable reflects the previous meeting's discussion, except in one minor respect. I have unfortunately omitted the two sessions on the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill in the new year. I apologise for that.On page 2 of the timetable, on 12 January, under the housing column, the item on housing stock transfers: evidence from ministers should really be deferred until a date yet to be specified.The warrant sales column for 12 January and 19 January should include an item on evidence for the bill. The report to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will be later than 19 January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604441",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 604441,
      "EditedText": "We may get the report concluded by 19 January and then submit it to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee the following week or thereafter. We have two sessions in January, which the committee agreed at the previous meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 604442,
      "EditedText": "I just want to thank the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18303,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ID": 18303,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 604444,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:25."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2663376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3355
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing Stock Transfers",
      "HeadingID": 18301,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 18301,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 604366,
      "EditedText": "It seems to me that we are talking not about community ownership, but about community involvement, which can be achieved whether a person owns their own home or whether is owned by the council or somebody else. We need to explode the myth.The NHP bids have been predicated on transfers. Some councils, however, do not need to transfer their stock to access finance. What place is there for them? Do tenants really have a choice? If the money follows the policy and the policy is that councils will only get NHP money if they transfer stock, that is blackmail, not a real choice. David Orr talked about opportunities, but there cannot be opportunities if councils are straitjacketed into transferring their stock.We talked about the strategic role of councils. We want councils to approach regeneration in its wider context. My concern is what control and influence we will have over the new bodies if they are not controlled by statute. The Minister for Communities has given no guarantee so far that they will be. I would like all of you to comment on those points.Michael, I have a specific question for you. Do you believe that the Executive's policy, if it is pursued, will effectively mean the end of council housing in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.8156823+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 478929,
      "EditedText": "I am arguing that first past the post is not good at delivering a clear winner, as 13 out of 32 councils did not get a clear winner in 1999. If you believe that local elections should be about clear winners, you should be arguing in favour of elected provosts and not first-past-the-post systems. Elected provosts will—unambiguously and fairly, and in a colour-blind fashion—ensure that the party that wins the most votes controls the executive. First past the post cannot be relied upon to deliver that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 478931,
      "EditedText": "The answers one receives to questions on electoral reform are a function of the wording of the question. This was an attempt—and I will happily send you the fine wording—to come up with a question that carefully balanced the arguments that are commonly used on both sides, in a way that was intelligible to the public. I think that I did a pretty good job as I managed to split the Scottish electorate right down the middle. If we ask people, \"Do you think that we should change the electoral system to ensure that small parties get their fair share, or should we keep the existing system, because it produces strong government?\" we will get a vote in favour of the existing system. If we say, \"Do you think that we should change the electoral system to proportional representation, because it is fairer?\" we will get a majority in favour of that. This survey contains both those questions.I was trying to come up with a balanced question rather than one that was biased in one direction. I would argue that I succeeded. This clearly demonstrates that, ultimately, arguments about electoral systems are not simply about the technical merits of one system or another. They are arguments about the normative objectives of elections. In relation to the defence of, or attack on, any electoral system, two questions should be asked: one, whether this is the right objective; and two, whether this is the best means for delivering that objective. Any proposal has to be evaluated on those two criteria. To campaign to the Scottish public that we should have elections that produce clear winners is not necessarily to try to walk up a down escalator."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 478939,
      "EditedText": "As five members still want to speak, I suggest that you ask a question rather than tell a story and then ask a question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 478941,
      "EditedText": "Unlike some proponents of PR, I would never sell PR to you on the grounds that it will have a dramatic impact on turnout. Research evidence, based on the statistical analysis of the electoral systems of different countries, suggests that countries with PR systems tend to have a higher turnout of about 2 per cent to 4 per cent. That is a marginal, not dramatic, effect.The potential for increasing turnout might be greater in local elections where the turnout is already lower. However, whether turnout is increased as a result of switching to PR will depend as much on the reaction of political parties as on voters saying, \"Gee whiz. My vote now counts with this new system, so I'll go and vote\". One of the lessons from the European Parliament elections is that, if political parties fail to understand how to campaign under a new electoral system, voters stay at home. Even with the world's most proportional system, if there is no election campaigning, voters will stay at home.If we change to a proportional system in Scotland, we can expect more voters to vote for their first preference party. In large parts of Scotland, the Liberal Democrat party and Conservative party do not put up candidates, because they cannot find them. In a multi-member ward of six or seven, only one candidate will be needed to fight that geographic area. As a result, there will be more political competition, as all the parties will be fighting, which could mean that some voters who currently feel disfranchised would vote.However, I will not tell the committee that PR would increase turnout in Scotland from the typical 45 per cent to 60 per cent. To be honest, increasing the probability of people voting in local government elections will mean increasing the powers of local government. Some of my recent research on voting behaviour suggests that one of the reasons why people do not vote in local government elections is because they do not think that it makes any difference who runs the show, as councils do not have any powers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 478945,
      "EditedText": "That was a comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 478946,
      "EditedText": "Comments are not allowed when we are running over time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 478950,
      "EditedText": "As some of my questions have been asked by other people, I will not repeat them.There was some voter confusion in the Scottish Parliament elections, particularly about the second vote. For example, in Lothians, where there were 17 different candidates, Arthur Scargill's Socialist Labour party scored 10,000 votes. That is probably an example of people mistaking who they were voting for—to somebody reading the ballot paper, Socialist Labour party and Scottish Labour party could seem quite similar. There was some confusion.Another issue was that people who were voting Labour in the first vote knew that their second vote could not possibly elect another Labour representative, so they spread their votes around.The third issue is how to protect against triviality, such as the Witchery Tour candidate, when there is a large list system? That adds to the complexity of the ballot paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 478955,
      "EditedText": "What is the point of voting Labour with your second vote in Glasgow?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 478965,
      "EditedText": "Michael and Bristow were arguing that AMS was particularly flawed. Michael was also saying that it is important for voters to have a member to whom they can turn. Is it not the case that the STV system gives the best of all worlds, because it allows not only for competition between parties, but for competition within parties? In some parts of the country—such as Glasgow, in the case of the Labour party, and Banff and Buchan, in the case of the SNP—the process is more about getting selected as a party candidate than getting elected. With STV, by contrast, the Labour party might put forward three or four candidates in a five-member ward, only two of whom would be elected because the system allows voters to choose which of the candidates they want to represent them. They may feel loyal to the party, but think that the person who has been representing them is not particularly gifted. STV allows them not to vote for that person, while continuing to vote for the party. They could, for instance, give their first and second-preference votes to Labour and their third-preference vote to the SNP, putting the candidate who they felt had not been particularly effective to the bottom of the list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 478966,
      "EditedText": "That is the classic argument in favour not only of STV, but of any open party list system. It obviously encourages competition between candidates of the same party. For the most part, candidates will not be able to compete with one another by having different policies, although, on occasions, individuals may be known to be more left or right-wing within their parties. If what matters to voters about their councillors is the quality of service, they will be able to express that: they will vote for the candidates whom they think will give them good service or who have done so, and will not vote for the others. It would be clear that those who were elected had been elected on that basis. If voters do not care about quality of service, but want councillors who are really good at engaging in strategic direction of their authorities, they will vote on that criterion. It will be up to voters to decide the criteria for competition on which individual candidates from the same party will compete with one another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 478971,
      "EditedText": "I thank Professor Curtice very much. I apologise to Johann and Bristow: I do not have time to allow them supplementary questions. I am sure that, if they want to speak to John another time, they can do so.Thank you for your presentation, Professor Curtice. It was very interesting. At the beginning, it was quite clear that there was one member—who shall be nameless—who supported the first-past-the-post system, but now there seem to be two. You have left the committee with a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12942,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 478975,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 478984,
      "EditedText": "Most of us see the point of transitional relief, but the fact that we hope that the new lot of transitional relief will come on top of continuing transitional relief from last time suggests that it is not a great system. It seems to go on too long. You expressed enthusiasm for finding ways of helping smaller businesses. If you were sitting where we are sitting, what would you vote for as a way of helping small businesses without disadvantaging middle-sized businesses, if that is the right expression for companies such as Grays?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 478985,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Retail Consortium has not given a great deal of thought to what scheme could be used to help smaller businesses. My colleagues may be able to indicate what Boots and the British Hardware Federation think about it, but the consortium does not have a collective view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Smillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 478987,
      "EditedText": "I tend to support that. I appreciate the difficulty that you have, but rates should relate to economic activity rather than to the value of the property, which is the fairly arbitrary basis for the present system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 478990,
      "EditedText": "Patrick talked about funding transitional relief from the Scottish consolidated fund. Have you worked out how much that would cost and where the money would come from, or do you envisage the scheme's being self-financing? If so, how?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 478993,
      "EditedText": "We have indicated our support for transitional relief, but I want to reiterate our concern about the proposals of the Federation of Small Businesses, which would create an additional problem. If you were to fund its scheme centrally, it would cost at least £45 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 478994,
      "EditedText": "Only if it were not self-financing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 478996,
      "EditedText": "I want to focus on one issue that may involve you as landlords. Can you tell me why large organisations that generate rents through competition should be subsidised through transitional arrangements? How many of your organisations have property portfolios in which transitional relief is granted to tenants by the landlords who receive it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Flecknoe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 478997,
      "EditedText": "Strictly speaking, landlords do not pay business rates, unless the property is vacant, in which case they are classed as the occupier. The vast majority of our members do not own property, but rent it. They are the occupiers and so are liable for business rates. The question of landlords passing on transitional relief does not arise, therefore, because if the property is vacant it is they who benefit from transitional relief; if not, the occupants benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Flecknoe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 479005,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty lies in considering non-domestic rates only as they apply to small businesses. The variables cannot be considered without considering other variables outside the remit of property tax. I do not see how a scheme could be devised, but if one was, we would consider it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 479007,
      "EditedText": "He said that he would consider it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Smillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 479008,
      "EditedText": "I must make it clear that I am now speaking on behalf of the British Hardware Federation, not the SRC, although the federation subscribes to the SRC's view. It would be useful if a system could be devised that is not divisive or discriminatory. It has been acknowledged that smaller businesses share a disproportionately large burden. Our membership reflects that. Rates are a higher proportion of their costs than for larger businesses. The problem is what model to use—it is not easy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 479016,
      "EditedText": "I will revert briefly to Mike Flecknoe's suggestion of a profitability tax. I have a quick anecdote about the days when there were university grants. A friend of mine wondered why his son got nothing at all, whereas somebody whose father owned a retail business got the full grant. When my friend contacted the Scottish education department, the person at the other end of the phone was astonished at how many people in small businesses—with the help of good accountants—made no yearly profit whatever. As a result, their children received the full grant while my teacher friend paid the full whack.I view profitability with marginal suspicion, perhaps because I am not a businessman. However, after Kenny Gibson's question about the inconsistencies in profitability from year to year, it occurred to me that a straight turnover tax might be a fairer solution to the problem and deliver a more consistent output than a profitability tax. That would also take care of the people whose businesses never make any profit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 479018,
      "EditedText": "Nor am I."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 479020,
      "EditedText": "I was detained and missed the beginning of the meeting, so I must declare an interest now. As I am a Labour and Co-operative party MSP, I am linked to the broader Co-operative movement, which has a retail aspect in the form of community businesses. As those businesses and retail outlets are philosophically rooted in the local community, they are smaller than the competition.Although Colin Campbell's point about the difficulty of identifying profit is perhaps the strongest argument against a straight local income tax, there are other issues to address. You seem to suggest that the label of small business obscures more than it reveals, which is perhaps different from what we heard in other presentations. Furthermore, you seem to suggest that a special case could be made for the retail sector. How could the rating system acknowledge the sort of add-ons that you talked about? Would transitional relief be a part of that special case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 479021,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that question. No one is asking for the retail sector to be treated as a special case. We support transitional relief, which would benefit businesses across the board. We were trying to demonstrate that, by its very nature, retailing might not conform to some of the definitions that the committee has heard so far. As retailers tend to operate in more heavily rated premises, the rateable value is higher. Brian Smillie indicated that although some of his members in the British Hardware Federation might not be classed as small businesses, they are modest enterprises that are struggling in comparison with other small businesses. We were trying to illustrate that perhaps we should be more sophisticated in our approach, instead of defining a small business as a property with a rateable value of less than £7,500, then targeting assistance at businesses below that threshold."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Flecknoe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 479022,
      "EditedText": "I agree—£7,500 is not a lot of money. Almost 10 per cent of our portfolio would qualify. For example, Boots is not a small business. There is not necessarily a correlation between small business and rateable value."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 479023,
      "EditedText": "I call Bristow. After his question, we must draw to a close as we are running out of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 479026,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming to the meeting. I am sorry that you had to wait and I apologise for the accommodation—this is not the best meeting room. Your evidence was comprehensive and you stuck to your remit. We will be in touch with you again to clarify points, if necessary, or if we wish to invite you back.What time do we have this room until, Eugene?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 479029,
      "EditedText": "Right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 479030,
      "EditedText": "I want to cover some housekeeping matters. The meeting is running over time. We have the room until 1 o'clock, but we can go on after that. I think that we probably should, but I am in the hands of committee members. I am happy if you all suddenly decide that you need lunch."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 479031,
      "EditedText": "Will we turn into pumpkins if we go past 1 o'clock?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C479032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 479032,
      "EditedText": "That would be something to look forward to—the official reporters should not report that comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 479054,
      "EditedText": "You also mentioned in passing that there are other things that could be rated. Did I understand that properly? What are we not rating at the moment that we could rate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Goulding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 479057,
      "EditedText": "With regard to the costing of the scheme, we have had discussions with the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors and the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions. Although they are not whole-hearted supporters of it, they have given us no indication that our figures are incorrect; I am sure that they would have told us if they were. The overall cost of the scheme would be an approximate 3 per cent increase in the poundage on the current rating base. That figure is arrived at from tables based on the proportion of the total current estate that would be within the relief taper. That does not relate to the total number of properties, but relates to the total value of the properties, because although there might be large numbers of smaller properties, the total value of those might be relatively small compared with the total value of all properties.Our figures suggest that the properties that would be covered in the relief table account for some 29 per cent of the total value of the current estate, but there is a skew in terms of where they sit in the relief table. Most small businesses sit in the top left-hand corner of the table—having low annual rates liability and low NI liability—because that is where most individual properties are, but further down toward zero per cent relief, there are fewer properties, but their value is greater. We believe therefore, that the average relief given to a property that falls within that relief matrix would be around 15 per cent, with relief at zero per cent at one end of the scale and 75 per cent at the other.The cost of giving an average of 15 per cent relief to around one third of the total properties amounts to about 3 per cent of the total relief. That might seem slightly convoluted, but I hope that it was clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Goulding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 479062,
      "EditedText": "More than that, our proposal would positively encourage job growth, because the overall burden of taxation on small businesses would fall. We know that small businesses create more jobs and are more labour intensive, so growth among small firms creates more jobs.There is a correlation with national insurance, and deliberately so. As a company grows, if it does not change anything else, it will get less relief. However, that is not normally what happens. A company tries to occupy premises that are appropriate for the number of employees that it has; it will not have acres and acres of free space. Generally, if a company is expanding, it is taking on new plant machinery, new premises and new employees at the same time. As the number of employees increases, the percentage relief that the company gets might go down; but if, at the same time, it is expanding its premises, a smaller percentage of a bigger figure might give the company more relief, which will be a further incentive to growth. For example, if the company was getting 75 per cent relief when it was paying £2,000 in rates,  the relief would be £1,500, whereas, if the figure fell to 60 per cent when the company was paying rates of £3,000, the relief would be £1,800. Therefore, although the percentage has fallen, the relief has risen. Under the system, there is a strong incentive for the company to grow. That point is so vital that I will undertake to send committee members a further note on the subject, if they would like that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 479063,
      "EditedText": "Yes, thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Goulding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 479065,
      "EditedText": "In Scotland, the figure is around £45 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Goulding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 479067,
      "EditedText": "Pretty much the same. The difference is that about 60 per cent of the recipients under the FSB's scheme would be big businesses. In our scheme, 100 per cent of the recipients would be small businesses. Therefore, the amount of relief that any one small business gets is much higher."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 479069,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much for your presentation, gentlemen. You have heard the members say that it was good and concise. If Nick Goulding is sending a paper to Kenny Gibson, I ask him to send it to the clerk of the committee, who will forward it to everybody. We will need time to deliberate, and it would be better if we had all the information.Thank you again, and I am sorry that we kept you waiting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 479070,
      "EditedText": "Not at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 479076,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. That was very helpful. Are there any questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 479081,
      "EditedText": "There are also the pubs. They are assessed on a different basis, are they not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479082",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 479082,
      "EditedText": "We are privy to certain information on levels of rental. It would not be unfair to suggest that, when the new levels of value are issued, retail warehouses in out-of-town locations will show substantial increases in value. As for town centre locations, I go along with what John Cardwell said. Princes Street, for which John is the assessor, and—in Glasgow—Argyle Street and Buchanan Street, for which I am the assessor, will show substantial increases in value. However, tertiary locations—the main roads into Glasgow, such as Victoria Road or Duke Street—will probably show a downward movement in rental values. That will be reflected in the values that we issue.In simple terms, licensed premises are valued on a percentage of the achievable turnover of those locations, based on analysis of the rents. For example, we anticipate that a public house that draws in the region of £100,000 would pay approximately 10 per cent of its gross turnover. We know that from the rental evidence. We then project that to the unlet pubs. Pubs are valued using a unit of comparison of turnover: the higher the turnover, the higher the level of rateable value will probably be. It is all based on the rental evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 479090,
      "EditedText": "We would get a huge number of appeals at the high-thousands level. A threshold scheme may help, but people feel aggrieved if they are slightly into the next threshold—perhaps that is human nature. They would love to get down to the lower threshold."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 479093,
      "EditedText": "Good. I take it that everyone agrees with Kenny. Do we write a report and make it a representation to the Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 479097,
      "EditedText": "I would prefer it if we had a meeting at which we discussed the evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 479098,
      "EditedText": "Before I write the report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 479101,
      "EditedText": "We must decide at that first meeting how much detail we want to go into. We may agree on the thrust of what we are going to say, but we may also feel that we need more investigation and research."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 479103,
      "EditedText": "Eugene Windsor and I will timetable that discussion. If members want to comment, they can make points at that meeting or later. I will certainly bring a paper to the committee that lays out what we have heard. If you want to write to me, that will be fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 479106,
      "EditedText": "I was somewhat attacked when I went to a meeting of another committee. I would like to say that Fergus was welcome to attend this meeting—we appreciated what he said, coming from outwith the committee. I want to show that, as I said at that meeting, we are a positive, constructive committee that likes other members to attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 479110,
      "EditedText": "I agree. As I have said before, there is a feeling round the table that we have a job to do. Moreover, there is a commitment to local government. That makes it easier for me as the chair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conference Report",
      "HeadingID": 12944,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 12944,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 479112,
      "EditedText": "There is a summary by Morag Brown."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conference Report",
      "HeadingID": 12944,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 12944,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 479113,
      "EditedText": "Yes, the summary is by Morag. She said that she did not want to speak—her wish not to speak was obviously so great that she has disappeared."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12945,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ID": 12945,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 479114,
      "EditedText": "I met representatives from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on 4 November. I will put that matter on to the next agenda, so that we can go for lunch now.Have we had a reply from the Minister for Finance about the special needs allowance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12945,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ID": 12945,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 479115,
      "EditedText": "You have had a reply."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12945,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ID": 12945,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 479116,
      "EditedText": "Thank goodness for the clerk. The minister's reply simply stated that he would give us a more detailed response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12945,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ID": 12945,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 479117,
      "EditedText": "He is saying, \"Thanks, I'll get back to you.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12945,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ID": 12945,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 479119,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in public until 13:59."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 479012,
      "EditedText": "I will put a simple scenario to you. A certain supermarket has a 25 to 30 per cent hike in rateable value at an out-of-town location. Is it not likely that that large supermarket has been taking customers away from tertiary or secondary locations where people used to do their shopping? That is the general pattern. If supermarkets are the losers this time round and face larger than average increases in rateable values—and I suspect that that will be the case—should the transitional relief system require those whose rateable values go down to subsidise our large, household-name supermarkets? We would end up with a transitional scheme in which the corner shop would subsidise the large supermarket."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:26.054279+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 479046,
      "EditedText": "I asked that because many people who pay class 4 insurance, including me, do so in the full knowledge that one gets nothing in exchange. There is pressure to abolish class 4 national insurance contributions. If that ever happened, I presume that your system would be able to take it into account. Is your system self-financing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:26.054279+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 10 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12941,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12941,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 478924,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12942,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor John Curtice (University of Strathclyde): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 478926,
      "EditedText": "I can assure the committee that, by the standards of many university lecture theatres, this is a palatial building.The remit that I was given for appearing before the committee was to present the report that I wrote for the McIntosh commission, entitled, \"An Electoral System for Scottish Local Government: Modelling Some Alternatives\", and to expand and develop thereon. In interpreting that remit, I have given myself three tasks. First, I shall give a summary of what I said in the report to McIntosh and pick out the crucial conceptual points and the issues that this committee, the Kerley commission and eventually the Scottish Executive ought to consider in deciding on an alternative electoral system to the existing system for Scottish local government elections. Secondly—and this is not something that I was asked to do by McIntosh—I shall present some arguments on the problems with the existing system. They are also, however, problems that are not widely articulated or understood, even by advocates of electoral change. I shall try to open up the debate on why we are thinking about alternatives in the first place. Thirdly, I shall give members some insight into research on the Scottish public's attitudes to alternative electoral systems in the light of their experience of electing members of the Scottish Parliament on 6 May. The Centre for Research into Elections and Social Trends and the constitution unit at University College London were given a grant by the Economic and Social Research Council to investigate attitudes towards and understanding of the electoral system in both Scotland and Wales in the light of the first devolved elections. That research is just beginning, but I want to give the committee one or two headlines about it, because neither McIntosh nor anybody else has much evidence so far about what the public think.My first task is therefore to give some indication of what I was trying to say to McIntosh—not that McIntosh always listened to what I said, but that is another story. My first point challenges the way in which people conventionally think about electoral systems. Once one has decided that one wants an alternative electoral system, one should go to a bespoke tailor for it rather than buying something off the peg from Marks and Sparks. We should look for the electoral system that is best tailored for Scottish local government, given the objectives that one wants to set both for local elections and for local government. Electoral systems do not come in neat packages called single transferable vote, additional member system or alternative vote-plus. They come with a variety of options and ought to be tailor made. I will say more about that later. The second principal point that I made to McIntosh follows from my first point. In the classic debate about electoral reform, we ask what people think about STV or AMS and so on, but the response is that it depends on what one is trying to achieve. The first intellectual task for anybody who is thinking about desirable electoral systems, including evaluation of the merits of the existing system, is to decide what the objectives of local elections and of local authorities are. The merits or otherwise of electoral systems vary according to what one is trying to achieve. The criteria for evaluating the system therefore vary, too.The third principal message in my report is that, although one must go to a tailor, if one wants a suit, one cannot give the tailor a specification just for trousers. In other words, there are important trade-offs in devising electoral systems. One cannot have one's cake, eat it and regurgitate it for breakfast. At the end of the day, one must make choices across desirables; one may find that one's objectives point in somewhat contradictory directions. I will draw the committee's attention to two important trade-offs. As I said, STV, AMS and AV-plus do not come in simple packages. Their proportionality depends crucially on the way in which they are implemented. I could find highly disproportional versions of STV; and I could find highly proportional versions of STV. I could find highly disproportional versions of AMS; and I could find highly proportional versions of AMS. I could certainly find highly disproportional versions of AV-plus—indeed,  the Jenkins commission justifies its version of AV-plus precisely on the ground that it is not a proportional system. The implementation and the detail matter. That is why the debate should be framed not around systems, but around the things that affect whether the systems will or will not produce proportionality and around the other criteria that we need to bear in mind.You may now be saying to yourself, \"Oh dear—this is going to be one of those terrible academic lectures, in which I am told that the world is terribly complicated and difficult, and after which I will end up with no clearer idea of how to make a decision.\" Although I have said that you should not look at the world through one lens, my report offers you an alternative and relatively simple lens—but a lens that, in my view, clarifies the choices in devising electoral systems, and clarifies the things that influence the way in which those systems operate.I will outline four choices. The first is the most boring and the most technical. The report goes into some of the detail; I do not propose to go into it now, but you are welcome to ask about it. It is the so-called allocative rule. At the end of the day, no electoral system—PR or whatever—can produce perfect proportionality. If, for example, we have a local council with 25 seats, which implies one seat for 4 per cent of the vote, you have to decide whether a party that ends up with 2 per cent is entitled to a seat. You have to decide whether a party that gets 6 per cent of the vote is entitled to one seat or two. The answer to that question is not obvious, and there are different rules for providing the answer. As you probably know, in the Scottish parliamentary election the d'Hondt rule was used. It was also used to provide the United Kingdom's European parliamentary delegation. It is not the only rule, but as it happens—depending on the context—it tends to be relatively favourable to the larger parties and relatively unfavourable to the smaller parties. For example, if you reran the UK European parliamentary elections using a different rule—the Sainte Lague rule—the Conservatives would have five fewer seats, and Labour four fewer, than they do now. The rule you use can make quite a difference under certain circumstances.The second choice—and the choice that is much more important in determining the proportionality of the system than whether the system is STV or AMS, or whether you use Sainte Lague or whatever—is ward size. Opinion on that is now clear and virtually unanimous. A system will be more proportional the bigger the wards or constituencies that you use. If you have a 25-seat council, and you elect all 25 members in a single district, you can indeed ensure that you get one councillor for each 4 per cent or so of the vote. If on the other hand, the same council is divided into five separate wards with five councillors each, you will realise quite rapidly that you now need about 20 per cent of the vote in that ward to get elected. A party that always gets 10, 11, 12 or 13 per cent of the vote in each of the five wards may well end up with nothing at all; whereas if the council had been one district of 25 seats, it would have got two or three seats. Ward size is crucial to the proportionality of a system.The third choice, however—and the choice that can to some extent make it possible to achieve both small wards and proportionality—is to have a number of tiers. The additional member system that was used for the Scottish parliamentary election is one variety of a multi-tiered system. It is a system in which some MSPs were elected at what I would call a lower tier—a single-member ward of very small size and potentially very disproportional; in practice in Scotland such wards are highly disproportional. The effect of that is ameliorated by having a higher tier where the seats are allocated in such a way as to attempt to reduce the disproportionality generated at the lower tier. There are other methods—the additional member system is simply one way. The outcome also depends on whether there is one tier or, as in the Scottish case, eight different tiers. That is the other way in which systems can vary; to some extent, you can begin to have smaller wards and proportionality.Those first three choices—the allocative rule, the ward size and the number of tiers—in combination and interaction, primarily determine the proportionality of an electoral system. Whether it is d'Hondt's or Sainte Lague's allocative rule makes much more difference if there are large numbers of small wards. However, if there are large numbers of small wards, and a substantial upper tier—or more than one tier—you can still end up with a system that is proportional. The interaction between those choices primarily determines the proportionality of a system.The fourth choice—the system of candidate choice—does not have a great deal to do with proportionality, but as the debate over the European Parliamentary Elections Act 1999 showed, it can generate an awful lot of heat and perhaps a degree of light. At one end of the spectrum there are closed party list systems. In effect, voters can vote for parties, but they cannot indicate a preference for individual candidates. At the other end of the spectrum there are open list systems in which voters are required to indicate a preference for individual candidates. Under systems such as the single transferable vote, they can indicate preferences on more than one list. Voters could vote for a Liberal Democrat No 1, a Conservative No 2 and an SNP No 3. Open list systems simply give voters more than one vote and they can give each of those votes to a different candidate from a different party. The crucial element is that, under an open system, voters are able to express a preference for an individual independently of their party choice.There are also flexible systems in which voters are permitted, but not required, to express a preference for individual candidates. If they do not express a preference, it is assumed that they like the rank order that the parties themselves put up. Whether the actions of voters will overturn the rank order will depend first on the number of voters who vote against that order and, secondly, on the rules that are used to determine the impact of individual voters' choices. Those rules vary tremendously from one country to another.The main point, apart from the detail, is the principle of choice. There is a choice between systems that are, at the one end, completely closed and at the other, highly open, with a variety in between.Those are, essentially, the four important choices to make—the allocative rule, the ward size, the number of tiers and the candidate choice system. Once you have made those decisions, you might discover that you have something called STV or AMS or whatever.There are a couple of wrinkles, with one of which you are probably familiar. The other is one with which, in the Anglo-Saxon debate on electoral principles, people tend to be less familiar. It has, however, been quite important in debates on French electoral systems. If we use the example of a 25-seat council, the first wrinkle is that a party that gets around 3 per cent of the vote is likely to do well enough to get a seat, depending on the allocative rule. You may wish to specify that you want a system that is highly proportional but not necessarily one that makes it too easy for very small parties to get elected. Therefore, you would want to set a threshold that is higher than the natural minimum that would otherwise occur.That is precisely what will be done in the elections to the greater London authority, next year, when a de jure threshold of 5 per cent has been imposed instead of what would otherwise be the de facto threshold of around 3 or 4 per cent. It was not an issue in the debate on framing the Scottish parliamentary electoral system, because the de facto threshold was already about 5 to 6 per cent. However, the threshold can be raised artificially in a system that is otherwise highly proportional by setting a limit.The other issue—into which I shall not go too deeply—is that it is possible, under party list systems, for parties to declare a linking of their lists. Let us imagine that the red and blue parties decide to put up separate lists, but that both parties recognise that they have a fairly substantial common interest. They do not hate each other. They would like to be able to compete with each other, but they are prepared, to some extent, to form an electoral alliance. If those parties are allowed formally to link lists, under the rules for the allocation of seats, the red and blue votes are added together in the first instance: the lists are combined. If I vote for the red list, that counts as a vote for both the red and blue parties combined. In the allocation of seats, the red and blue lists are regarded as a single list, and the total number of seats to be won by red and blue is a function of their combined vote.Subsequently, the number of seats that have been won by red and blue parties combined are divided between those two separate lists, according to the individual shares of the votes that they have received. You may wonder what the hell the point of that is. First, the advantage of linking party lists is that, under most proportional representation systems, the parties are likely to increase their probability of winning seats at all, and large parties stand a chance of faring a little better. If red and blue parties regard themselves as parties that might form a coalition, but they are not sure whether they will win 50 per cent of the seats, by combining their lists, they might ensure that they win the extra one or two seats that would give them that 50 per cent. In other words, linking lists is a mechanism for encouraging parties to declare in advance their coalition preferences. Secondly, very small parties that, individually, may not pass the threshold, may, collectively, succeed in doing so. The mechanism can act both at the top and at the bottom of the scale. It would be imposed legally, entirely separately of the other four choices that I outlined.I have indicated that the first three choices are ways of creating proportionality. I now want to integrate my foregoing comments and describe the way in which a disproportional system can be created. By inference, the converse—how to create a proportional system—should be made clear. I shall then illustrate, taking a simple example from our reporter, McIntosh, how such things make a difference within systems that are called STV and AMS. It should become clear why the choice is not simply between those two systems.As I have indicated, if it is desirable to choose an allocative rule that creates disproportionality, the d'Hondt rule would be used—resulting in the system that is used for the Scottish and European parliamentary elections. To create further disproportionality, a local authority must be divided  into many small wards—the smaller the wards, the less likely it is that the system will be proportional, however wonderful the allocative rule is. The third rule is to have multiple tiers. If there is a small number of geographically divided top-up seats, the system will be more disproportional. The smaller the number of top-up seats, and the more geographically divided those top-up seats are, the less proportional the system is likely to be. It is not widely appreciated that in no fewer than five of the eight regions in the elections to the Scottish Parliament, the disproportionality that was created by the first-past-the-post tier was greater than the seven top-up seats were capable of redressing. Even in a region with a 9:7 ratio, we still generated quite significant disproportionality.The fourth way of creating disproportionality—although we can argue about whether this really is disproportionality—is to have systems in which second preferences make a difference to the allocation of seats. Any system, such as the alternative vote system or the single transferable vote system, that allows voters to express second preferences encourages parties to declare in advance potential coalition alliances and, by so doing, to encourage their voters. If the red and blue parties think that they are going to be in coalition after the elections and want to ensure that they have a majority, the red party will tell its people to give their second and lower preferences to the blue party and the blue party will reciprocate. If two parties do that under systems that give voters preferences, they are likely to end up with a larger number of seats than one would expect, given their share of first-preference votes. On one famous occasion in Ireland, which uses STV, the combined first-preference votes of Fine Gael and Labour fell as compared with the previous election, but they managed between them to secure office because they persuaded their voters to transfer their second preferences.As I have indicated—and here we come to the wrinkles—high formal thresholds are another way of creating disproportionality. That may all sound wonderful in theory, but does it really make a difference? Let us take the example of Glasgow in 1995, using a simple index of disproportionality—examining how the proportion of seats won by each party varies from the proportion of votes.First, I have compared the outcomes under STV in two sets of circumstances. In the first set of circumstances, I use three-member wards; in the second, I use six-member wards—in other words, they are twice as big. I have held everything else constant—the second preferences have been held constant, there are no upper tiers and so on. What this illustrates clearly is the impact of ward size within the same system. With three-member wards, my simulation suggested that there would be disproportionality of 13 per cent, but with six members per ward there would be disproportionality of 8 per cent. Doubling the size of the wards from three to six members has a substantial impact on the disproportionality exhibited.My second comparison is between two varieties of the additional member system. Here I illustrate the potential impact of the number of top-up seats that are available. I have applied the top-up across the whole of Glasgow, rather than dividing the city up. In the first case, I assume that 75 per cent of Glasgow's councillors are directly elected and that 25 per cent are top-up members. In the second, the division is 50:50—that is the system that is used in Germany. With only a 25 per cent top up, we get disproportionality of 8 per cent, the same as with the six-member constituency under STV. However, if I choose 50:50 AMS, with the 50 per cent of top-up members allocated across the city as a whole, I get an outcome that is almost perfectly proportional. Because I am operating a system with a large proportion of top ups and not dividing those up, I get high proportionality. Once again, it is clear that under AMS the details of the system make a difference. That is why I say that the real issues are the size of wards, the nature of the tiers and, to some extent, the nature of the rule governing allocation, rather than a simple choice between STV and AMS. The details are fundamental.As I said, the second point that I made in my report to McIntosh was about the need to think about objectives before getting lost in the details of the system. You need to know what you want to achieve before you start worrying about how to go about it, as the arguments about what you want to achieve are the crucial normative arguments. You can get boring anoraks such as me to work out how to deliver your objectives—you just need to ensure that we are not telling you too many porkies.I want to move on a little from the report, as it would not be helpful for me simply to reiterate what I told McIntosh. First, let me remind the committee of what I regard as the McIntosh-Kerley objectives. I want to suggest that other objectives, implicit in the McIntosh report, are relevant to devising an electoral system in Scotland and I want to illustrate that there are conflicts among the objectives.The first criterion that McIntosh puts forward is proportionality. We have already talked about that. The second criterion is the councillor-ward link, about which I will talk when we consider the first-past-the-post system. It is clear to me from the debate that the Parliament had on 2 July that the subject inspires considerable enthusiasm. The third criterion is the fact that Scotland votes for a few independent candidates—McIntosh implies that we should not construct a system that makes it impossible for independents to be elected. The fourth criterion is that Scotland is a varied country and it might not be possible to have the same system for Glasgow as for the western isles. The fifth criterion, which has come out of the arguments with the existing local government boundary commission for Scotland, relates to the wish for ward boundaries to reflect communities rather than lines on a map.Members will be familiar with all that. It will be obvious to them that there is a conflict between the desire for councillors to represent relatively small wards—as they do if the councillor-ward link is defined in the conventional sense—and the desire for proportionality.The other factor—which might not seem to be a McIntosh-Kerley objective but which I think of as one—is the issue of appropriate numbers. If Kerley were to come to the conclusion that efficient delivery of services and effective community leadership could be delivered by 20 councillors in every council in Scotland, it would not be desirable to set that as the ideal number of councillors if it prevented proportionality from being achieved or the representation of communities from being enabled. Kerley's recommendations on the number of councillors need to take into account the other factors that the electoral system has to deliver. Other objectives are implied by McIntosh—I think that some of them are more important than the objectives that McIntosh explicitly set out. The first element is that, as I said, we have to think about what we want councils to do, rather than only what we want the electoral system to do. McIntosh sets out a clear objective for councils: he says that they are about providing services and representing their communities. We have to find the most effective way in which councils can do that. Do we believe that the best way is to ensure that a council is a microcosm of the political preferences of the electorate, in which case we would want a highly proportional system, or do we believe that the best way is to have majority governments in councils? The second element is that, as McIntosh has rejected the idea of elected provosts—for the time being, the Executive has rejected the idea—and proposes cabinet administrations instead, we need councils that are capable of sustaining an executive. Councils will still have to maintain an executive—if no one can form a majority administration, that may imply that a totally proportional system is inappropriate.The third element, which I think is particularly important, is that although McIntosh wants to increase proportionality—by implication, proportionality for parties—the report also says that parties should be less important in Scottish local government decision making. In particular, it calls for less use of whips. Those are wonderful words, but we need to think about how we construct a system for local government that ensures that there are incentives for that to happen. If we want a system that allows councillors to vote against a whip and that encourages councillors to think for themselves rather than follow the party line, we may not want a closed party list system, which makes it easy for a party to get rid of awkward councillors by putting them at the bottom of the list. If we want to reduce party power in local government, we need to devise an electoral system that does not reinforce party influence.Another element relates to the criticism that local government is too involved in details. That is an argument about the need for councillors to be more strategic—they need to be more concerned about the broad strategic direction of their authority and less concerned about the fine detail of which pavement currently needs mending. That may imply that some councillors should be elected to represent not small wards, but large geographical areas, which would give them an incentive to think about the district as a whole rather than in terms of individual wards. What we want councillors to do has a clear implication for the kind of electoral system that is needed. If we want councillors to be involved in discussing which pavement has not been repaired, we may want small wards. However, if we want councillors who are concerned about the broad strategic direction of services, we may not want councillors to be elected in small wards.The other two elements that we have to take into account are voter choice—whether voters should have as much choice as possible—and voter comprehension. Voters do not have to understand the relationship between seats and votes—to be honest, I do not think that many people understand that relationship under the first-past-the-post system, let alone under proportional representation. The cognitive task in which voters are required to engage in the polling booth needs to be one that the vast majority of the Scottish public can tackle straightforwardly.Those are some of the objections that need to be borne in mind. Some aspects of the McIntosh report that are not explicitly linked to the electoral system imply that there could be cross-pressures. We need to recognise the existence of trade-offs. As I have said, small wards produce low proportionality, all other things being equal. There is potential for conflict between some conceptualisations of the council-ward link and proportionality. There is no way in which we can have all councillors elected in small wards and secure proportionality. Those elements are in direct conflict with each other. It may be possible to ease the trade-off by introducing multi-tiering, through the additional member system, for example. However, the implication is that the additional member system that is used must be one in which a relatively large number of councillors are elected for fairly large districts. Even then, if some councillors are tied to their pavements, the price of achieving proportionality will be to have others tied to a relatively large area.Another factor, about which I have not said much but which is important, is complexity. You may believe in open lists and that voters should be able to choose between candidates, but if you also want large wards so that there can be a high degree of proportionality, a problem of complexity could arise. If, for example, we have open lists in wards that elect 10 or a dozen councillors, that will ask voters to make judgments about a large number of candidates. If we assume that the four major parties each put up eight or 10 candidates in the wards, that makes 40 candidates—with a few other parties, the ballot paper could have 60 names on it. There is a limit to how far voters can be expected to make meaningful judgments about a large number of candidates. The solution could be a flexible list, where voters can overturn the party ranking if they want, but do not have to. That reduces the cognitive task and enables voters that do not want to engage in that choice to ignore it. Those are two crucial trade-offs that we should be aware of in considering a system. Let me move on from McIntosh. I said that I wanted to assess the validity of the arguments for the existing system and to ask why we were considering change. Some aspects of change have not been widely articulated. There are two clear arguments in favour of the existing electoral system, which are perfectly defensible in terms of democratic theory. The first is that voters should decide who rules on the council. The argument says that the most important thing is not that every individual vote is faithfully reflected on the council, but that the voters decide who the leader of the council will be—as with the Prime Minister. Being able to determine who forms the executive is more important than determining the fine detail of the composition. By generating majorities for the largest party, first past the post ensures that voters determine the colour of the executive. The second argument is that the councillor-ward link ensures that councillors and political representatives have a close link to individual voters. My problem with the first argument is that first past the post cannot be relied on to achieve the objective that is set for it. I have no problem with the Labour party winning 74 out of 79 seats on Glasgow City Council on 49 per cent of the vote if, and only if, any other party that got 49 per cent of the vote also won 74 out of 79 seats. I would have no problem if the system were colour-blind in relation to the level of exaggeration. If the Labour party gets 49 per cent of the vote, it gets 74 seats, and if the SNP gets 49 per cent of the vote, it would also get 74 seats—that strikes me as fair, at least using the criteria of the traditional defence of first past the post. The problem is that that statement does not hold. The most interesting thing about the 1999 local elections in terms of the thinking about changing the system is not the results in Glasgow and Edinburgh—which people point to as examples of terrible disproportionality—but the fact that no less than 13 of the 32 councils in Scotland, despite the use of first past the post, ended up with no overall majority. The existing system fails to deliver—on any regular, reliable basis—single-party majorities in Scottish local government. If we want single-party majorities on a local authority level, it is not the right system—it is not delivering—so we would have to think of something else. The second problem with first past the post is that it cannot even be relied upon to identify the correct winner. Let me remind you of what happened in Dundee this year: the SNP got 36.4 per cent of the vote and Labour got 36 per cent, yet Labour got four more seats than the SNP. Edinburgh in 1992 is an even more notorious example. Labour got 29 per cent of the vote and the Conservatives got 40 per cent, but Labour ended up with seven more seats than the Conservatives. Just in case you think that it is always Labour that benefits, in East Kilbride in 1974 Labour won more votes than the SNP but ended up with two fewer seats. The system does not necessarily even get the winner right. The third element is that, as I implied, even when the system gets the winner right, it is not even-handed in its exaggeration. One can play games—some of this is in my report to McIntosh—and ask what would happen if there were uniform movement in an area so that the SNP were as far ahead of Labour as Labour is ahead of the SNP now. One discovers that, with the same lead, the SNP would not necessarily get as many seats as the Labour party does.That happens because, in first past the post, there is no regular or reliable relationship between seats and votes at council or national level. The result depends on how parties' votes are geographically distributed. I could demonstrate how some geographical distributions are advantageous in some circumstances but not in others. For example, a party whose vote is evenly spread geographically may come second in wards across the council and get very few seats. At a certain level of support, the party with even support will come first and, suddenly, everything falls into its lap—it moves from having nothing to having virtually everything.However, a party that does very well in some places but very badly in others will tend to do relatively well if it is narrowly in first place. Everything depends on geography. Do we want the results at council level in Scottish local government to be a function of electoral geography?The second main argument for first past the post relates to the councillor-ward link. In my view, that concept needs an awful lot of unpacking. What is the councillor-ward link under the single-member plurality system meant to deliver? As I understand the argument, it is meant to deliver two things. First, it is meant to deliver accountability—every councillor is accountable to a body of electors for their custodianship in the previous four years, or whatever, and their fate will be determined by the votes of—potentially—all the people in the ward, rather than by the votes of those who like that party and who may be making a choice between individual candidates of that party.The second thing—as I understand the argument—that the councillor-ward link is meant to deliver is service. Because every councillor represents an individual ward, they have a clear incentive to demonstrate that they are interested in the needs and demands of that ward and to ensure that they look after the problems and interests in their ward in terms of the requirements of community groups and individual constituents.If we accept accountability and service as desirable, we should consider what is the best system to achieve them. It is not entirely clear to me that single-member plurality is necessarily the best means of achieving those two desirables. The first point on that is fairly obvious: many councillors have safe wards, so it could be argued that their incentive to engage in the service function is limited and that accountability for their individual actions is nil.The second point is not widely appreciated but was used by the UK Government as an argument for defending the European election, so I take the Home Office as my source. The single-member plurality system is a closed party list system—it is a closed list of one. Most voters in Scotland vote on the basis of party label rather than on the merits of individual candidates—not entirely, I accept, but it is true for the most part, especially in central Scotland.Therefore, it can be argued that we already have a party list system—with a party list of one. Few councillors are accountable for their individual merits, as opposed to the merits of the party for which they stand. That was the argument that the UK Government used—\"We already have a closed list system\"—to defend the use of a party list system in European elections. I suggest that closed lists will not deliver accountability for a individual councillor's actions. The third element has been particularly problematic in Scotland in recent years. Because of the constant changes to ward boundaries, it is not necessarily the case that an individual councillor is accountable to the same body of voters that he or she has represented for the past four years. The final element is that there is an inherent contradiction between the first and second arguments in favour of a first-past-the-post system. The first argument is that elections are really about enabling voters to decide who runs the council—which political party should be in control. That implies a system of strong party control, where councillors who are elected for the controlling party will defend the policy of that party, even if it is not necessarily in the interests of their ward. A system where individuals look after the interests of their wards is a system where party is weak. A similar system operates in the US Congress, where congressmen regularly defy the party whip because their voters tend to vote for the merits of individual candidates rather than for the party for which those candidates stand. In such a system, a party may not be able to rely on the backing of a majority of its councillors. I will say a little about public opinion, based on academic survey evidence collected just after the Scottish Parliament elections. Are people wise after the event? A section of the UK population experienced for the first time at least a type of proportional representation. What did they make of it? We asked voters a number of questions, such as whether they thought that we should keep to the new way of voting, because it was a fairer system, or use the old way of voting, because it was more effective at delivering strong government. In the light of experience, at least on this occasion, the Scottish public seemed to be 2:1 in favour of a PR-type system. With some foresight, we even asked them whether they agreed or disagreed that we should use the same system for local government elections. Forty-five per cent agreed, 15 per cent disagreed—members will be able to ascertain from that that a fair number either do not care or do not know. This topic is not necessarily the most exciting for the general public. The survey also contained a number of other indicators, which we put to the Scottish electorate in 1997, about whether PR should be used for both Scottish Parliament and UK Government elections. In all those indicators, there was clear movement towards PR between 1997 and 1999. The broad judgment has to be that the experience of 6 May 1999 has made the Scottish electorate on the whole somewhat more sympathetic to PR in principle than they were previously. However, we should not run away with the idea that, even with that experience, the Scottish electorate are entirely consistent in their views. One of the long-standing findings of research in this area is that the answers obtained are very much a function of the questions asked. We asked people the broad, important, intellectual questions, which I have articulated, about whether elections should be about producing a clear winner or a fair result. That relatively abstract question still produces an almost 50:50 split. There is still room for argument on both sides about the merits of the PR system. I will give my conclusions in reverse order. First, from what I have seen so far, a reasonable supposition to make is that, should the Scottish Executive accept a recommendation from the Kerley commission for a PR system, endorsed by this committee, the odds are that the public would support that change.Secondly, first past the post does not necessarily achieve the objectives that are set out for it. If you want councils to have elections that are about controlling who runs the executive rather than the council as a whole, you should go for elected provosts; first past the post is the wrong instrument.Thirdly, if you accept the arguments that there is a movement for change and that first past the post is not satisfactory, finding the best alternative implies hard choices and clear thinking. There is a better way of looking at the debate about alternatives than the one that is commonly engaged in."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 478930,
      "EditedText": "I totally agree; that would have been my conclusion too. However, I wondered whether that was a fair question. Does what you have said not make it confusing?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 478933,
      "EditedText": "I will take your questions in reverse order. Pull me up if I forget to address any of your points.First, I will address your question of whether we can have a different system for Scottish local government compared with that for Westminster or the Scottish Parliament or whatever. The question is, will voters be faced with too many alternatives? My reaction to that question is mixed. First, we are already in that world. In May, voters had to deal with first past the post and the additional member system. In June, if the same voter bothered to go to the polling station, they were faced with another party list system. In some senses it was exactly the same as the second vote for Scotland, but because the Home Office designed its ballot papers differently from the way in which the Scottish Office and the Welsh Office did, it looked horribly different. Westminster will still be first past the post, but if Jenkins is introduced, we will have yet another different system.It is not uncommon for voters to use different systems for different purposes. For example, Northern Ireland's voters happily use STV for some elections but first past the post for Westminster. In France, local elections tend to be run on a party list system whereas they use the two-ballot system for elections to the legislature. It is not often realised that in the United States local elections are not necessarily undertaken using first past the post, and that STV has been used there. Even if we look at local government in England, voters do not get terribly confused by the fact that sometimes they are asked to put two or three votes on a ballot paper because they have multi-member ward elections and only one vote in parliamentary elections. We are already in the world where different electoral systems are used for different purposes.We must think about the cognitive tasks of the voter. At the end of the day, the real reason why there was no serious problem on 6 May is that the cognitive task that the voters were being asked to engage in was exactly the same as before, which was to put an X on a ballot paper. Indeed, we made life even easier for voters because they did not even need to read the ballot paper to understand who to vote for; they could just look at the pictures. Cognitively, voting by marking an X, however the vote is then treated, is exactly the same task for the voter. That might lead people to say, \"Therefore, we should not have a single transferable vote system\". However, the Jenkins system, if it ever sees the light of day, requires voters to engage in two separate cognitive tasks. On the alternative vote they will be required to mark 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, and on the top-up vote they will have to mark an X. Jenkins has come to the conclusion that two cognitive tasks can be run in the same system, so I am not sure that any of the issues that have been raised are decisive. There are experiences of voters being asked to do different things in different elections, and it is even being proposed that they do different things at the same election and that that does not cause a disaster.Your last point was about different parts of Scotland. There are a couple of issues to be addressed. One point that flows from my comments is that, given that we can run, for example, STV or AMS or any other system with different ward sizes and with different tiering structures, we may want wards to elect different numbers of councillors in Glasgow compared with the Western Isles.The potential for flexibility is there, even though STV or AMS may be in place across the whole of Scotland. After all, under the first-past-the-post system, the number of electors per ward is smaller in the Western Isles than in Glasgow. It is not unreasonable for different councils to have different ward sizes, for example, two or three-member wards in the Western Isles and six or seven-member wards in Glasgow. It may be that parties that do relatively well in rural parts of Scotland will lose out, because the system will be less proportional, but at least the system will be fair within the district.It becomes rather more difficult to accept the argument for four or five-member wards in towns in the Borders, but for smaller wards in the rural districts. The danger is that that will create a bias in favour of one party. For example, when Lord Jenkins was writing his report he came up at first with the idea of STV for the cities and the alternative vote for rural districts. It took a little while to persuade him that that would mean that the Labour party did not benefit from proportionality in the rural areas, but that the Conservatives benefited from proportionality in the city areas. A little bit of computing persuaded him that it was a wonderful Conservative gerrymander and the idea was dropped. If we have smaller wards in the rural parts of a Scottish local authority and bigger wards in the cities, we may end up with another Conservative gerrymander. We need to watch out for that.At the beginning, you made two points. I have forgotten them, but you may want me to pick up on them."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 478934,
      "EditedText": "I mentioned the issue of safe seats. Often in this debate there is a theoretical discussion about which is the best system, but the problem arises when it comes to dealing with the stubbornness of voters in safe seats, who become an immovable force that cannot be worked around. You seem to suggest that the electoral system must address the fact that there is a geographical bias built into Labour's support. That is understandable in economic terms in a city such as Glasgow. However, theoretically, anybody can vote for anybody."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 478936,
      "EditedText": "I will hold you there. Four people have indicated that they want to speak."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 478937,
      "EditedText": "When I first examined this issue, I had no definite beliefs about electoral reform, but I was more in favour of it than anything else and I favoured the alternative vote system. However, having heard the arguments and examined the issue more closely, I am becoming more and more in favour of first past the post. I will explain why that is.I have heard it argued that the alternative vote system hardens up disproportionality. The single transferable vote divvies up responsibilities in each electoral area. There is a politicisation of the local community. The same thing happens with the additional member system, which we have for Parliament, where there is a politicisation of surgery work. Certain list MSPs only take on the high-profile work that will get them publicity and do not want to do the nuts-and-bolts work. Proportional representation does not deliver proportional representation, as the European election showed, and it is centralising.We may be looking at this from the wrong angle. We should not be considering what electoral system people want, but what they want from their elected representatives. We should go back down to the grass roots, ask what people want from a local councillor and consider what they get from first past the post: a representative of a party who is responsible for the whole electorate, regardless of who they voted for. Those members are directly defined and have a clear role. We should consider what the councillor delivers, not what the electoral system delivers."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 478940,
      "EditedText": "Will you comment on the perceived disfranchised, the people who do not vote? For example, in Drumchapel people may not vote because of the legions of Labour voters—60 per cent of the people did not vote in the first place—which means that they believe that Labour will get in anyway. In Bearsden it may be the same story with another party. What impact will a change of system have? Will it encourage more people to exercise their vote?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 478943,
      "EditedText": "The Home Office is proposing legislation for a rolling electoral register in the next session of the UK Parliament. I hope that will sort out the 19th century problem of electoral registration procedures."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
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      "EditedText": "The committee will be aware that some countries, such as Australia, have compulsory voting. I think that it is the politician's job to engage voters' interests; and if voters think that the politicians are a load of rubbish, they have the right to stay at home."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478951",
    "Meeting": {
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 478951,
      "EditedText": "And how do you find candidates such as the Lib Dems and Conservatives? Laughter."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 478956,
      "EditedText": "In my view, the additional member system caused greater confusion among returning officers than among voters. In a study of the Scottish parliamentary election, we asked people whom they had voted for in the first and second votes, and how they would have voted if they had been given a ballot paper to indicate their first and second preference. In the first vote, 88 per cent of people voted for their first preference party, and on the second vote it was 83 per cent; so there may have been a little bit of what you are suggesting, but not an awful lot. Those figures do not indicate to me a high degree of voter confusion.Only 2 per cent of voters voted for the whole gamut of smaller parties in the first vote, but 11 per cent did so on the second vote. That demonstrated a substantial understanding of the system, which was encouraged by some pretty effective campaigning by some of those parties, especially the Greens in Edinburgh and the Scottish Socialists in Glasgow, who were specifically asking voters to vote for them in the second ballot. Voters' understanding of the system is partly a function of what politicians tell them. Some of the smaller parties persuaded voters that the second vote could matter and could get them elected. Indeed, they succeeded in getting elected.There was surprisingly little tactical voting in the first vote. If people were not voting Labour with their second vote because they felt that Labour did not have a chance of getting any more candidates through, Labour's vote should have gone down especially heavily in the north-east of Scotland, where they were never in a month of Sundays going to get a top-up seat, but it did not. In other words, there is not a clear relationship between the probability of the Labour party not getting a top-up seat and people not voting for it in the second vote.Only about 4 per cent of people reported that they had voted tactically on the second vote. Despite various attempts, including those that I made myself, to explain to people how the system worked and what strategic considerations there were, not many people voted strategically in the second vote. However, if you want to stop such voting, you should have a system that ensures that there are sufficient top-up seats, because then virtually every party has a chance of being elected.A criticism of having a 9:7 ratio of first-past-the-post candidates to top-up candidates in small areas is that it generates the strategic opportunities that you refer to. There is a similar problem with the Jenkins recommendations: if they are ever implemented, they will really encourage those kinds of strategic arguments. One of the criteria against which one should evaluate any electoral system is the degree to which it is open to strategic manipulation. On that criterion, Jenkins fails badly, and the Scottish Parliament system ain't too wonderful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 478957,
      "EditedText": "May I ask—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 478958,
      "EditedText": "No, I would like to move on. I will let you come back in if we have time, but I would like to stop at around half-past 7 and we have other people to hear from. Not half-past 7; I meant half-past 11, although the way this is going it will be half-past 7. But I will come back to you, Bristow, if I can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 478959,
      "EditedText": "I cannot see how we can fairly accommodate independents, or how we can achieve the McIntosh committee's goal of reducing the stranglehold of the parties on individuals, unless there is some form of transferable vote—whether it is STV or something else. I was wondering whether I had missed something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12942,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 478960,
      "EditedText": "No, you have not. I did not proceed from how I thought all the objectives should be implemented. The obvious implication of my remarks about whipping and independents is that a pretty open system is required. The single transferable vote system is the most open and does not assume that there will be independents. Those are the criteria on which STV scores. The criterion on which it is weakest is voter complexity, because STV cannot accommodate large wards. That constrains the degree of proportionality that the system can deliver. There are ways around that—technically, we could consider top ups to STV. The strong points of STV are that it weakens party, is very open and allows for independence. It also allows wards to be constructed that correspond to natural communities, because the size of wards can be varied somewhat. However, it is not the best system in terms of proportionality, and problems can arise with voter complexity. Those are the trade-offs that have to be considered when evaluating STV."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 478963,
      "EditedText": "I hope that Michael McMahon's views on the first-past-the-post system have not been coloured by his experience of the partnership agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 478964,
      "EditedText": "I was thinking about the list members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 478967,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in the point about confusion. I always thought that the Greens did amazingly well in the 1989 European elections in West of Scotland because their man was called Campbell—but that is perhaps due to personal prejudice.John made the distinction between strategic councillors and broken-pavement councillors. That distinction could be balanced by additional members, but do you believe that that division of priorities would be workable in a council?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12942,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 478969,
      "EditedText": "I hope not, in this instance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 12942,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 478970,
      "EditedText": "Of course I am. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 12942,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 478972,
      "EditedText": "Do not come again. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 478974,
      "EditedText": "You are welcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 478976,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 478977,
      "EditedText": "We shall now start the second item on our agenda, which is the continuation of our inquiry into rating revaluation. Our witnesses are representatives of the Scottish Retail Consortium—Patrick Browne, Mike Flecknoe and Brian Smillie. They will give us a presentation and the committee will then ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 478980,
      "EditedText": "The cost structure for retailing business is different from that of other types of business. On balance, retailing premises tend to be more heavily rated than other types of property, such as office property. Retailers also have to meet higher property, marketing and staffing costs than other types of business. They have additional costs, such as store security, which are unique to retailing.Retailers also have to be located near their customers. Unlike other business, they do not have the option to operate in a non-high-street or non-town-centre location. They tend to incur higher rates bills by the nature of their business.I will now ask Brian Smillie to give members a perspective on the significance of rates to small to medium retailers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Smillie (Scottish Retail Consortium): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 478981,
      "EditedText": "Good morning everyone. As Patrick Browne has said, I am president of the British Hardware Federation, and I would like to take a moment to explain the nature of our organisation. The British Hardware Federation does not relate to computer hardware, but to traditional hardware—ironmongery and housewares. Most of the members of the federation run small businesses. One of the benefits of being president is the opportunity to go round the country, speaking to members in their localities, chewing the fat about the business. It will come as no surprise that rates can be an emotive issue for most small businesses. There is a degree of apprehension about the new rating process. Nobody likes to pay tax and we accept that there will always be some dissent. However, the new system has aroused genuine feelings of apprehension because of the perceived uncertainty surrounding parts of it. There is no doubt that one factor that is important to the people whom I represent—and to most other retailers—is transitional relief. That has been one way of removing the uncertain, large additional costs. It has helped to smooth out the process. There is a full accord on transitional relief.I would like to reinforce Patrick Browne's comments. Most retailing companies face an increasing rates burden. In general, rates go up. The figures on increases are smoothed out across all the different categories of buildings, but for retailers the tax burden is an increasing one. I would argue that rates tend to make up a larger percentage of business cost for retailers, because of the nature of their location, than they do for other types of business. Retail businesses need to be in a visible spot and, therefore, their property will be perceived to have a higher value than a warehouse or factory in a less visible location.There is already a classification within the system to allow transitional relief for large and small businesses. However, it is sometimes difficult to classify businesses on the basis of their property. My company considers itself to be a small business. I know that it is invidious to discuss one example, but it might give members a flavour of the situation. I am not making a complaint; I am trying to give members an indication of the increases in the rates bill for my company in Edinburgh. Although the property value has gone up, following the last revaluation—we are now facing another one—I am referring to the increase in the amount that we have paid.Since 1994-95, the rates bill has increased by 49 per cent. The five successive increases have been: 10 per cent, 11.5 per cent, 12.12 per cent, 4.7 per cent and 4 per cent. That makes a total increase of 49 per cent. That has been an increasing burden on our business.I recognise that property in George Street in Edinburgh has increased in value, but we never realise the property value of our businesses until we come out of business. The tax is therefore arrived at in an arbitrary way, although we recognise that there must be some basis for it. Most retailing companies face an increasing burden. There are no swings and roundabouts. Most companies see it as a cost that always goes up.We are concerned by the suggestion that there would be some cross-subsidy between smaller businesses and larger businesses. We need to go back to how one classifies small and large. If we are to change from a system that is based on the value of a property and apply an overriding percentage to businesses that are perceived as large to subsidise businesses that are perceived as small, we will be breaking away from the fundamentals of the current system. We can all argue about the rights and wrongs of using property as the basis of the tax, but, if it is the basis, it should continue to be the basis, rather than being tinkered with by cross-subsidy. We need to know where to draw the line.As Patrick Browne said in his introduction, the rateable values of many of our members, who are not large businesses, tend to be above the £10,000 threshold. They see themselves as small, suburban, high-street town people and would not be happy if they felt that they were subsidising another sector of business sizes. That would be divisive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 478983,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that presentation. I am sure that there will be questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 478988,
      "EditedText": "We all accept that the current system has a number of flaws, but I am concerned about how the system that you are proposing would work. If rates liability were calculated as a percentage of net profit, how would that accommodate the vagaries of the economic cycle? We have had two major recessions in the past 20 years, which impacted substantially on the profitability of companies. Given that the rates fund a large proportion of local government services, would your proposals not cause considerable annual fluctuations in the amount of money that is available to fund services? That could have a destructive effect on local government across Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Flecknoe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 478989,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree. However, the problem with the rating system is that it operates on a five-year revaluation cycle, with transitional relief. Usually, properties experience an escalating increase over the first few years, which then drops to something close to the retail prices index. Rates follow the property cycle, which is not the same as the economic cycle. The current rateable value is based on what a property would have achieved in the marketplace in 1993. Next year's rateable value will be equivalent to what the property would have achieved in April 1998. The property cycle was in the doldrums in 1993 and at a peak in 1998, which is why we are experiencing such large increases. The problem is that there are discrepancies between the economic cycle, local authority spending and business rates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 478991,
      "EditedText": "We would prefer the scheme not to be fully self-funded, as that would increase the burden on the businesses it covers. Rating is a complex subject, and because the Scottish Executive has not indicated what the rate poundage is likely to be we cannot work out what sum of money is involved. At this stage, therefore, the answer to your question is that we do not really know. As I understand it, under the scheme that operated in 1995, businesses provided funding for other businesses that had lost out as a result of the revaluation. That is not an ideal system, but it is the one that we would prefer. We would welcome any assistance from the Scottish Executive, and there are indications that in England there will be an element of funding from the Treasury. However, until we know what the rate poundage figure will be, it is very difficult to estimate how much money would be required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 478992,
      "EditedText": "As Michael told the Confederation of British Industry, the difficulty that we have is in deciding which budget to take the money from if the scheme is not self-financing. Because our budgets are hard pressed, that is a major concern for everyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 479001,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the candid approach that the consortium has adopted today towards the mix of properties and the impact on small businesses, given that most of your members are big businesses. Have you had the opportunity to examine the paper produced by the Forum of Private Business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 479003,
      "EditedText": "That is okay. I will not ask about the paper and I will rephrase my question. Would you be interested in a system that genuinely considered the impact of business rates on the profit ratio of small businesses? Would you support a scheme that supported small businesses if such a scheme could be devised? In some cases business rates can impact on 27 to 30 per cent of a small business's perceivable profit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 479004,
      "EditedText": "As I said before, the consortium does not have a collective view on the issue of rates relief for smaller businesses because of the balance of our membership. We do not support a business rates relief package for small businesses any more than we do a relief package for larger businesses. However, Mike Flecknoe can perhaps give a view on behalf of Boots. Brian Smillie can give the British Hardware Federation's view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 479006,
      "EditedText": "Would you support it or just consider it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Flecknoe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 479011,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the rateable value increase in 1995 was dramatic. The problem is that a shift in rateable value does not necessarily lead to the same shift in actual rate payments. Prior to 1995, there was a local rate in the pound, which each local authority could apply. After 1995, the uniform business rate was applied, which levelled out the playing field. A shift in liability occurred throughout Scotland. Transitional relief was introduced in 1995 to smooth out the effect. Patrick Browne was talking about the 13 per cent increase in rateable value this time round. We have done research on Boots. We estimate that the average rates increase for our property portfolio would be 29 per cent. Boots stores are in high-value locations around the country, but the out-of-town warehouses and superstores will experience far higher increases even than that.I agree that transition feeding on transition is wrong and is a fundamental flaw in the system. Liability should not be paid on the previous year's liability, which is how transition is calculated. Boots would advocate an escalating limit on transition in order to feed transition in the five years before the next revaluation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 479013,
      "EditedText": "We must be careful which issues we consider. The committee is conducting an investigation into rating issues. The consortium's view is that we favour a balance in shopping provision between locations, including town centres, edge-of-town and out-of-town developments. We do not favour one of those locations at the expense of the others.The impact of out-of-town developments on other types of retailer might be better addressed through the planning system. The Scottish Executive is examining that. We do not subscribe to the argument that a business should pay more and not be protected from large changes in its rates bill because it chooses to operate from an out-of-town location. When somebody sets up a shop in, for example, Princes Street, that shop displaces trade from other businesses. Displacement is a normal part of the retail process and we believe that it should be addressed by the planning system, not the rating system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 479025,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair assessment of our position. We have only five months before next April's revaluation. Therefore, given shortage of time, statutory instruments and so on, it is important that we resolve the uncertainty as quickly as possible.Other parts of the UK are indicating that they will review the rating system after next year's revaluation, in time for the revaluation that will be due five years after that. As we said, we do not think that the rating system is perfect—there are ways in which it could be improved. We would be more than happy to be involved in the process of reviewing the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 479028,
      "EditedText": "There is a meeting at 12.30 pm, which some members might want to attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 479038,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ensure that I have understood what you have said. Are we talking about transitional relief operating in a similar way to the way it did before but being more supportive to small businesses? Are we considering, as a longer-term solution, examining the way that we determine business rates? I am a little confused about the taper principle, due to my inexperience in this area. Does it apply only to the long-term solution or might it be relevant to the transitional relief proposal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 479039,
      "EditedText": "Nick Goulding is the real expert, and I am glad he is here.We believe that the priority is the revaluation exercise. We know that some businesses will face significant increases in their second-highest overhead. That has to be dealt with before next April. The small increase for the total property base in Scotland hides the fact that some businesses, in areas where rateable values have risen significantly since 1995, will see much higher than average increases. It is to protect those businesses that those increases should be phased in during a five-year period. The transitional relief scheme was of enormous benefit during the past two revaluation exercises. A small business relief scheme would deal with the principal unfairness in the rating system, and the relationship between local authorities and the small business sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 479041,
      "EditedText": "That is where the tapered solution comes in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Goulding (Forum of Private Business): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 479045,
      "EditedText": "There is an error. It should not say class 3—voluntary contributions; it should say classes 2 and 4. That is to differentiate between incorporated and unincorporated businesses. In an incorporated business, the directors are paying class 1 insurance, whereas the owners of an unincorporated business pay class 2 and class 4."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds (Forum of Private Business): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 479037,
      "EditedText": "I am accompanied by Nick Goulding, who is our UK head of policy, and who has come up from England to be here today.The Forum of Private Business Scotland represents 2,200 small and medium enterprises in Scotland. Eighty-five per cent of those employ fewer than 15 people, and the average turnover is £450,000 per annum. We will be delighted to answer any questions on the forum or on the relief scheme.We have two objectives today. We want to present the case for transitional rates relief in the April 2000 revaluation. We also want to present the case for a suitable small business rates relief scheme to reduce the overall burden on SMEs. Those issues are separate in terms of their impacts on SMEs. At the end of the presentation we would like to propose priorities in those separate issues.On the impact of business rates on SMEs, our data show that business rates are the second biggest overhead after payroll. That is not the case for public limited companies. I noticed that the committee endeavoured to find out what percentage of profits—or turnover or costs—rates represent for plcs.Our data show that SMEs pay 25 per cent of their gross profits on rates, compared to 5 per cent for plcs. The Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions statistics, to which Patrick Browne of the Scottish Retail Consortium referred, say virtually the same as that.Rates have an impact on the attitudes of our members. In our quarterly surveys, business rates have been the No 1 concern, out of 26 choices, since the fourth quarter of 1997. Since we started conducting quarterly surveys in 1977, business rates have never been out of the top three concerns. It is a perennial problem rather than one that has suddenly been manifested. In April, we conducted a survey of our members' priorities for the Scottish Parliament. In breadth and depth, rates were No 1 and outweighed other issues by a factor of three.There is no doubt that there is an issue to be addressed. That is why we are grateful to the committee for the opportunity to present our case.I will give the case for revaluation relief. It is clear from the consultation document, which you will now have seen, although you had not last Wednesday, that the Scottish Executive recommends a scheme for transitional relief similar to those in 1990 and 1995.There will be immediate large increases in what is the second biggest overhead. Fergus Ewing talked about average increases. The rateable value will increase by 13 per cent. We know that the uniform business rate poundage will come down to reflect that increase, so that the average increase will be at, or just below, the rate of inflation. However, the example of the average masks the fact that many extreme cases of increases and decreases will result from the revaluation. That is true for properties of all types, in all regions of Scotland.The principle of revaluation relief is well established and appreciated by the business community. Last week, one witness, the Federation of Small Businesses, said that the business community does not value it, but we disagree. The business community applauded the revaluation relief, in 1990 and 1995, in both England and Scotland.There is a final point to be made in the case for revaluation relief. The federation's paper points out that a merging of revaluation relief and small business relief has been sought. That does not address the problem, for two fundamental reasons.A business with a rateable value of £3,000—which, after April 2000, rises to £9,000—would not apply for small business relief funding under the federation's scheme. Worse, it would experience a hike in its rates and, if the Scottish Government did not fund its scheme, it would be expected to pay even more to subsidise businesses that had received a reduction because they fell below the £7,500 rateable value threshold.What of a business with a rateable value of £4,000, which experienced a reduction in rateable value? Not only would it experience a reduction in its rates bill as a result of the revaluation next year, but the federation scheme would allow it a further 50 per cent off that new bill. For those two reasons, such a scheme would not be fair to the rest of the small or medium business community.I turn to the case for a small firms relief scheme. On average, small or medium firms are paying five times more, as a percentage of their profits, on rates. We also know that smaller firms pay much higher rates than larger firms per square foot. That is a more complex argument that concerns the zoning principle and other technical aspects, such as the way in which the Scottish assessors value properties. The front of a property may be deemed to be of a higher value than the property at the back of the store. A newsagent's may have a depth of 50 feet. The vast bulk of that property might be valued at a far higher rate than the back end of Marks and Spencer, which would attract a much lower assessment from the Scottish assessors. On the basis of size, there are technical reasons why the cost of occupancy is higher for smaller firms than for larger ones.If occupancy presents a higher cost, which it does, any tax that is based on rental value is bound to bear disproportionately on the smaller business sector. Small businesses, not unsurprisingly, favour a small business relief scheme. In a poll that was conducted in April 1998, 91 per cent of our members favoured a small business relief scheme that would be paid for by larger firms. That is no surprise, given the constituency that we represent.We think that there are principles that the committee should consider before it considers solutions. We believe that they are worthwhile principles, against which any scheme should be judged. The chap from Boots, to whom Nick and I were listening this morning, made some fundamental commonsense points. That was refreshing. Some of those are reflected on this slide. First, relief should be targeted on the size of business, taking account of the close relationship between the impact of rates and the size of a business. We know that smaller businesses pick up a bigger tab in proportion to their profits.Secondly, size should be measured on current information. Rateable value is dated. A relief scheme should reflect the current business circumstances, if that is possible. Thirdly, relief should be aimed at businesses, not premises. That point was made strongly by the SRC, and I thought that that Boots chap hit it absolutely bang on the head. If we aim relief at premises, it will be given to bigger businesses as well as to smaller ones. That is not discretionary.Fourthly, thresholds should be avoided, for two reasons. The first is that they tend to limit growth aspirations. They might not have a major impact on the growth of businesses, but they may delay or defer it, or encourage businesses to work around them. The second is that thresholds are notorious for causing unfair competition around the margin: \"How do I get my business below this threshold to reduce my second biggest overhead by 50 per cent?\" As we have already said, in our view, they would lead to a large increase in appeals for chartered surveyors.Simplicity is important, so the system must be simple for businesses and local authorities to apply and administer. We would want disruption to the current system to be minimised. A relief scheme should not be funded by the taxpayer but by shifting the burden, because there is a disproportionate cost burden on small businesses compared with large ones.We felt that it would help committee members if we passed on our members' views of relief schemes. We conducted a survey in May 1998 and asked our members, \"What preference do you have, in terms of the measurement of smallness, if a small business relief scheme is in the offing?\" The first preference was for a scheme based on last year's profit, which 36 per cent voted for, followed by current employment at 28 per cent. Last year's turnover was the next most popular option. Notice that only 11 per cent supported a scheme based on rateable value: 89 per cent of our membership, which is representative of the SME community, do not favour a relief scheme bases on rateable value.The Forum of Private Business would be happy with a scheme based on profit or employment but, for technical reasons, national insurance is a good proxy for either of those. We would be glad to expand on that during questioning. There are difficulties with profit and with turnover. You only have to look at the different sectoral turnovers to see that a scheme based on turnovers would be difficult to implement. As we shall suggest in a moment, a scheme based on national insurance is the way forward. A relief scheme based on rateable value would be as bad as the poll tax in terms of its application to smaller businesses.There are some advantages with our preferred option of an NI-based scheme. We know that the necessary figures are already available. Indeed, they are used for statutory sick pay. An FPB amendment in the House of Lords three years ago encouraged the Government to introduce a reimbursement scheme for statutory sick pay for small businesses, so there is a precedent for schemes based on national insurance. An NI-based scheme would be much more up to date than rateable value, and it would measure the size and the resources of a business in terms of the number of employees and the salary levels that are being paid.The scheme would provide tapered relief, which would not encourage distortions in business decision making. In our suggestion for a taper you will see that we have tried to present a case for a taper that is sufficiently flat that at any point along the curve the decision-making process of a business is not influenced significantly by a single factor such as a relief scheme on business rates. The scheme would be delivered through the current pay-as-you-earn system, which would avoid any changes for local authorities, and it would not be subject to complications caused by changes in the rateable value following an appeal, which can bring firms below a threshold.How would the system operate? We suggest that to maintain a flat taper the system should not just use national insurance, but should have a dual taper based on property and on national insurance. We will provide an example of such a scheme in a moment. The relief would be claimed monthly as a simple deduction from the business's taxation and national insurance liability. It would be fully administered through PAYE; in other words, businesses would operate the scheme for themselves. There would be a need for a supplementary table for those businesses that operate a manual system. Of course, we do not want to get ourselves into a repayment exercise so there would be a need for a ceiling on relief set at the gross tax and national insurance that would be due in the period of any claim to prevent any reimbursement.In the following table we have given an indication—and I stress that it is an indication—of the percentage reduction of rate liability. Across the top of the table we have the gross annual rate liability on all premises occupied by the business going up in £5,000 bands, but different bands could be chosen. Down the left of the table we have gross monthly—not annual—employers' class 1 national insurance liability, as well as class 2 and 3 NI contributions. That shows that the relief would be spread much further than just a £5,000 rateable value, both in terms of national insurance contributions and rateable value.The next slide shows what that means to the average business in terms of pound notes. The figures show the indicative monthly rebate figure as a result of applying that dual taper. The figures are purely for illustrative purposes. Ensuring that the right scheme had the right balance would involve much more analysis.At this meeting, we wanted to argue the case for a transitional relief scheme and for a separate small business relief scheme. We think that those schemes are necessary for the Scottish economy. The priority for the committee should be the transitional relief scheme to take account of the revaluation exercise next year. We will submit our views on that before the deadline.We encourage the committee not to make a decision on any small business relief scheme until further investigation has taken place. We believe that if the principle is right, we should not rush the solution but should take our time to get it absolutely right. It is better to get the right solution than a quick fix."
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  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479050",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 479050,
      "EditedText": "I know that your matrix is just illustrative, but does gross annual rate liability mean the rateable value or what businesses would pay in rates?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479052",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 2702
    },
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      "ID": 147
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 479052,
      "EditedText": "Pursuing Sylvia's point, would it be a good idea to have some sort of taper in the transitional relief? Your example was that somebody whose rate bill goes up from £3,000 to £6,000 should receive relief. Do you think that they should receive more relief than somebody whose rates go up from £30,000 to £60,000, or from £300,000 to £600,000?"
    },
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  },
  {
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 147
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 479056,
      "EditedText": "I commend you on a very imaginative approach. It is obvious that you have given a great deal of thought to this; it covers both capital-intensive and labour-intensive businesses. However, although the graph is very clear about how relief would be delivered, it does not give the other side of the coin. We need to know how you propose to fund it. You indicated that there could be a general increase in the poundage or that there could be an increase in taxation, which is unlikely. Put it this way: I do not think that the relief will be funded from the Scottish consolidated fund. If you are suggesting that the poundage is increased or that the burden is shifted on to larger businesses, what work have you done to show how those sums will add up and square that circle?As Gerry Dowds will tell you because he was here last week, the Confederation of British Industry was very dismissive of the possibility of using national insurance contributions. There is concern that we do not have control over the Inland Revenue and so on. The CBI indicated that it would be too complex to administer. How would you answer those points?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479058",
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      "ID": 147
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
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      "ContributionID": 479058,
      "EditedText": "It was clear."
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  {
    "ID": "C479059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Goulding: ",
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      "EditedText": "I now come to Mr Gibson's other question. The committee will be aware that the Scotland Act 1998 paid much attention to the devolved power to vary income tax; the negative aspects of that have been stressed. The Scottish Executive is a customer of the Inland Revenue in the same way as other Government departments are, such as the Department of Social Security, which collects national insurance. What has been suggested in terms of business rates is a positive use of the powers that are delegated to the Scottish Parliament. The Parliament would be able to deliver something that was beneficial, rather than something that might be viewed by the business community as negative.There is no likelihood that—for technical reasons—the Inland Revenue could not deliver. If one examines how small firms administer their PAYE schemes, and how they claim relief on such things as statutory sick pay and statutory maternity pay, it is clear that they would have to do no more than they do now to apply the table to themselves.There is a separation between assessors and the Inland Revenue in Scotland, but in England and Wales the Inland Revenue controls valuation and is well used to the intricacies of business rates. The IR has all the data that it needs on NI, so it will not be asked to check or to administer anything that it does not already check or administer, and neither will businesses. There is little additional burden.How the revenue swapping should take place should be discussed. The central Exchequer would lose money because the IR would be collecting less—which would need to be balanced. Scottish local authorities would end up with more because the poundage would be increased by 3 per cent. Central Government would claw that back from the grant to the Scottish Executive, which, in turn, would claw that back by reducing the grants to Scottish local authorities. Scottish local authorities would end up with the same amount of money as before, but more of it would have come from their own direct resources, such as the business rates that they had collected. Less of the money available to local authorities would come from grants from the Scottish Executive.The Scottish Executive would end up with the same amount to spend on other areas. It would get less from central Government, but it would pay less to local authorities. Central Government would remain exactly as well off as it is now, because although it would collect less from NI receipts, it would pay out the same amount less to the Scottish Executive."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 479060,
      "EditedText": "What would be the effect of your proposal on jobs, growth and investment? The CBI has tried to counter it, and the SRC is saying that it would have an adverse affect on business, and thereby on jobs, growth and investment. How would your proposal benefit and stimulate the Scottish economy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 479061,
      "EditedText": "If, when applying relief, you accept the principle that size, rather than premises, is important, any scheme has its advantages and disadvantages. We are not saying that our scheme is perfect, but—if size and the impact on businesses are the more important criteria—we believe that it is the best available. In its application, there is an attempt to ensure that there is no restriction on jobs or growth. That is why we have suggested a dual taper. If we present a graph with rates paid and national insurance taken together, as we have chosen to do, the graph can be flattened out by varying those two factors as much as one wants, and one can create a flat taper. That means that a decision made by a business at any time would not be influenced by a particular relief scheme. We do not believe that decisions on jobs or on any kind of growth would be affected directly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 479068,
      "EditedText": "I congratulate the two gentlemen on their paper and on the impact of their scheme on businesses. From your figures, and from your questioning of your members, it is clear to me that they are concerned about other small businesses. Yours is a scheme that could work, and it is the first one that I have seen which could work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 479071,
      "EditedText": "This is the last part of our investigation into business rates this morning, although we have other things to do after that. Once again, I welcome the Scottish Assessors Association. Duncan Chisholm is not here, but we welcome Bill Johnston and John Cardwell. We will follow the same procedure as last week, if everyone is happy with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 479077,
      "EditedText": "I have a quick technical question. You raised the question of zoning. Perhaps I have got the wrong end of the stick, but my understanding is that it is shop frontage that is zoned. A shop such as Marks and Spencer may be up to 1,000 sq ft, whereas a small business may be something like 20 sq ft. The smaller business might be one or two people in a fruit shop, for instance, but the fruit shop in Marks and Spencer would be charged rates at a lower level. Have I got that wrong? Are they zoned on the same premise, which means that the impact on the small business is greater, pro rata?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Johnston (Scottish Assessors Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 479073,
      "EditedText": "If the committee would like, I will summarise briefly the position of the Scottish Assessors Association on all the submissions. However, if you would like to break for lunch, I am happy to say no more; I am entirely in your hands, convener. I could probably summarise our position in five minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 479080,
      "EditedText": "It is all based on the rental values. If Comet is paying high rents, the values will be high. You will not be surprised to find that the agents who represent the Comets and the retail warehouses of the world argue strongly that they are overvalued and that we are hard on them. Assessors and staff are aware of the discrepancies. I remember one case, in Leith, in which one rent was clearly outrageous, but it was the only rent that we knew of in that street. We could have said that, as it was the only rent that we knew of, that would be the level of value. However, we looked at surrounding streets and thought that it was outrageous, so we ignored the rent and put what we thought was a fair level of value on the street. Six months later, when I was passing those premises again, that person had gone out of business, because they had been badly advised. We try to take a wider view when we can. However, we cannot move too far away from the evidence that we have. Once hugely subjective judgments start to be made, the whole system is based on sand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 479084,
      "EditedText": "No. There is a variety of types of rental evidence for public houses. I declare an interest as the son of a publican and the author of the scheme of valuation for the previous revaluation. I went into great detail and did a tremendous amount of negotiating with the main brewers. From those discussions, we determined what we called the clean rents: not those where there is a tie to the brewer, but those which are a straightforward property transaction. Once those rents have been identified, the unit of comparison is the ratio of the rent to the turnover, which is expressed as a percentage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 479087,
      "EditedText": "We wish that that were true. Our experience shows that, as a matter of course, the vast majority of ratepayers will launch appeals, with private practitioners—qualified valuers—acting on their behalf. No matter what the level, they will always appeal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 479091,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your contribution; I apologise for keeping you longer than expected. It is interesting to hear the other side of the argument. It would be a good idea if you came to every meeting and summed up at the end of it. Laughter. As I say to everyone else, we will ask you back again if we feel that it is necessary.I will carry on quickly, because we are running over time—apparently, we get into trouble from the official report if we do.We have taken evidence about the business rate from the various groups. We have four choices: we can do nothing, we can write a report, we can make representations to the Executive or we can combine the previous two options. We will start with the first option. Given the evidence that we have heard and the importance of this matter, are there any votes to do nothing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 479092,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 479094,
      "EditedText": "May I suggest that members collate their own thoughts and bring them to you and the clerks? You could then draw up a final report, which could come back to the committee for a general discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 479095,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we thrash out this matter at a meeting and submit a consensus report, rather than produce individual reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 479104,
      "EditedText": "On the timing, the assessors made it clear that we should consider the subject only when we get the figures, as so many of those systems are based on figures. The assessors have taken the view that we should wait and see what the evaluation figures are—that will enable us to examine the detail on the basis of the new evaluations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 479107,
      "EditedText": "Fergus, your part is to say, \"Yes, that's right.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 479109,
      "EditedText": "There is a serious point about the role of the committees. The strength of this committee is its ability to conduct its business constructively, regardless of members' political positions. If we have faith in the committee structure and do not view it as an extension of the chamber battleground, that will help the work of the Parliament. This committee has been a fairly good model so far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 12945,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ID": 12945,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 479118,
      "EditedText": "At least he is saying that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 479108,
      "EditedText": "I love you too. Laughter. I thoroughly enjoyed my time at this committee. I thought that there was some terrific convenership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:03.1620198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 479009,
      "EditedText": "Last week, we heard evidence from Bill Howat of the Scottish Executive development department. He said that, at the rates revaluation in 1995, the average increase in rateable value was 33 per cent, whereas the likely average increase in rateable value in 2000 would be 13 per cent. Also at last week's meeting, Mr Duncan Chisholm, the president of the Scottish Assessors Association, said that rateable value would increase by between 10 and 15 per cent. Five years ago the average increase was a huge hike—one third—whereas this time round the average increase will be much less, although there will undoubtedly be some big losers because of large increases in individual cases. Does that mean that, although there may be a case for a transitional relief scheme, it would be a different beast from the scheme of five years ago? The problem of appeals for transitional relief—some of which is unused from 1995—is far less likely to recur five years on. The whole transitional relief scheme could this time be described as only one third as important as it was last time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:26.054279+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 479089,
      "EditedText": "In our previous meeting, Duncan Chisholm admitted that that would not necessarily be the case. The scheme could be modified to be much more tapered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:26.054279+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 10 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12941,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12941,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 478925,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I welcome Professor John Curtice, who is here to discuss his paper. As members know, Professor Curtice was involved with the McIntosh commission, so we return to proportional representation. I apologise to Professor Curtice for the room—if we had gone to Glasgow, things might have been different, but that is another story. This is not the best room to meet in, but you will find that we pay attention, that the questions are usually very good, and that you will have to be on your toes. We will follow the procedures that we have followed before: after Professor Curtice has given his presentation, members will ask one question and a supplementary, and at the end there will be a general question session. We will have a comfort break after we have finished questioning Professor Curtice and will be joined for the next item by Fergus Ewing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 478927,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Lots of interesting information there. Who wishes to speak?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 478928,
      "EditedText": "I am trying hard to think clearly about your last point—it has got a lot of things going on in my head. You mentioned that you asked a question about a clear winner and a fair result and that each option achieved roughly 40 per cent. Are you saying that the clear winner was, to your mind, allied to first past the post?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 478932,
      "EditedText": "In a sense, what you are doing is searching for an electoral system that meets more than an academic view of what an electoral system should be like; in other words, one that can exist in the real world. My view is that you want communities to be able to affect decision making at local government level in a way that might be impractical at other levels. You would aspire to having local members who respond to local needs.On the point that you made about electoral geography, in a city such as Glasgow it is understandable that, because of historical party identification, there is an electoral geography that is matched by a political geography, which arises, for example, from the density of need in Drumchapel compared with Bearsden. If people identify with political parties on the basis of the level of poverty, that would influence the political and electoral geography.Are there other trade-offs that we should consider? Are there issues with regard to voter reaction that arise from the use of different electoral systems across different layers of Government, at Scottish, Westminster, European and local government levels, that we should be aware of? Do you have a view on, or are there any data on, the consequences of having different systems in local government—for example, having different systems in the Western Isles and Glasgow?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 478942,
      "EditedText": "The electoral registers are always shockingly out of date. People underestimate the fact that, particularly in poorer areas with a high turnover of population, electoral registers can be 10 or 20 years out of date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 478935,
      "EditedText": "As you will be aware from the way in which the top-up element of the system for the Scottish Parliament works, when you move to any kind of party list system, AMS system with a substantial number of top-up seats or STV, every district becomes, in effect, a marginal seat. In almost every case, it will be open to doubt who wins the last seat. Drumchapel, for example, is very Labour. Even so, the Labour party will not win more than two thirds of the vote there and often less than that. Of the four or five seats in the area, the Labour party will not get more than three. There may well be a real scrap for who gets the fourth and fifth seats. No area is safe, therefore, because under any conceivable system of proportional representation at least one of the seats in almost every area will be up for grabs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 478938,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we should devise a system to deliver what the Scottish public wants. However, some of the arguments that I hear against multi-member representation strike me as a fear of competition. Once there is more than one representative for an area, there is potential for competition amongst politicians to ensure that they are popular in the area. For the most part, that is a good thing. We are told as a work force that we must be flexible and accept the forces of competition. I would argue that those arguments apply as much to politicians as they do to any other group in society. We must bear in mind that political competition amongst representatives exists in local government in England. Almost all wards in England have more than one representative, yet the world has not fallen down in terms of adequate representation. I am unsympathetic to those kinds of arguments.When members say that other members divvy up the area and look after various parts of the ward, the argument against that is not that people are not engaging in the service function; the argument is that the service function becomes too important. The argument that is used against the single transferable vote in Ireland is not that it prevents members from representing their individual constituency, but rather that it sets up too strong an incentive for them to do so.How do you compete as an STV candidate in Ireland, given that many voters want their Teachta Dáil to defend their particular interest? The way to compete is for a member to be well known in one area of that multi-member constituency, to serve it well and get sufficient first-preference votes from their party's supporters in that area to ensure that they get sufficient electors in that area to get elected.The system, through political competition within political parties, encourages the service function rather than discourages it. If I wanted to argue against it, I would do so on the grounds that it is too powerful an incentive to deliver service level functions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 478944,
      "EditedText": "Was that your question, Kenny?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 478947,
      "EditedText": "I enjoyed your presentation, although I did not realise that Lord Jenkins was a Conservative.I was going to ask the question that Gil asked about whether research has shown that PR will increase turnout. Is there a case for introducing compulsory voting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 478949,
      "EditedText": "Good answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12942,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 478952,
      "EditedText": "To answer your third question, the mechanisms to deal with triviality involve the number of signatures, as well as the level of the deposit, that are required with each nomination.You also asked about confusion—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 478953,
      "EditedText": "No, not confusion—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 478954,
      "EditedText": "The tactical squeezing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12942,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 478961,
      "EditedText": "What you have said, professor, will go down like a lead balloon in the Highlands. To what extent have you taken into account the system that we have in the Highlands, in which, if we are honest about it, people tend to vote for the person more than for the party? Fergus Ewing and David Stewart, for instance, hold the same seat in the Scottish Parliament and at Westminster, which suggests that some people change their vote depending on who the candidates are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 478962,
      "EditedText": "That is another argument in favour of a transferable vote system that delivers proportionality if voters want it, but enables them to vote for individual candidates. Translating into action the McIntosh criterion of independence means bearing in mind the distinctive culture of the Highlands and Islands.I want to make two further points, one of which was a surprise to me. First, I would say that in 25 years' time the independent tradition will be dead in the Highlands and Islands, even if we retain the current system. It has already died in most of rural England, and signs of the politicisation of local government are beginning to appear in the Western Isles. Having said that, it is still true that, even when the system has become politicised, the merits of the candidates count for more in the Highlands than in the central belt.Secondly, the argument about changing the electoral system has been going on for some time, during which I have given a number of presentations to council leaders. Without naming names and embarrassing people, I have been surprised to be told on more than one occasion by councillors in the islands that they would welcome larger multi-member wards, because they find the particularist pressures to which individual councillors are subject under the current system unhealthy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Curtice: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 478968,
      "EditedText": "It is perfectly workable, if members of a political party can agree to engage in the division of labour. It concerns the way in which parliamentary parties or councils decide to organise themselves. The problem is contained in the report that I gave to McIntosh. All things being equal, losing parties will tend to receive more of the top-up seats. The party that is most likely to run the council, as it has the majority, may have a relatively small proportion of top-up councillors. Given that the party that most voters might want to have some sense of strategic direction is the party that is running the council, AMS might not deliver the councillors with a strategic interest where they are wanted. The other problem—which is on-going—is that, under an AMS system, a member might be reasonably happy to be elected as a top-up member, but might reckon that their long-term political career could be advanced by trying to win a single-member constituency—perhaps one of the constituencies in their region. The top-up member might have the incentive to engage in as much pavement politics as the existing constituency member because they are hoping to unseat that member at the next election."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Systems",
      "HeadingID": 12942,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12942,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 478973,
      "EditedText": "I hope it never goes to a vote, because I will probably lose. We will now have a five-minute break. I stress that it must be only five minutes, as there are people waiting outside. Thank you very much, Professor Curtice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Flecknoe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 478986,
      "EditedText": "I deal with business rates and would not pretend to be an expert on other forms of taxation. The point that we are trying to make is that there is no correlation between low rateable values and small business. Property is not a good tool for identifying small businesses. The rateable value is the equivalent of an annual rent, based on the value of the property. In our opinion, income and profitability are far better indicators. With corporation tax, for instance, we pay one bill a year. With business rates, we pay thousands of bills a year, which means that it is very difficult for the billing authorities to identify whether Boots is a big business. We would prefer any form of taxation that was based on profitability or income."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne (Scottish Retail Consortium): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 478978,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I shall introduce my colleagues. Mike Flecknoe is the rating executive with Boots, which is one of our members and operates approximately 130 stores in a range of locations throughout Scotland. Brian Smillie is the national president of the British Hardware Federation and managing director of James Gray and Son, which is based in George Street in Edinburgh. I want to start by thanking the committee for giving the consortium the opportunity to address members this morning. I shall say a little about the Scottish Retail Consortium. We were established in April of this year. We represent most of the major high-street retailers and supermarkets, but we also represent a number of trade associations that, in turn, represent smaller and medium-sized retailers. Among our corporate members are: Safeway, which operates 200 outlets in Scotland; Dixons, which operates more than 90 outlets; Tesco, which operates 85 stores; B&Q, which operates 31 stores; and Argos, which operates 34 stores.Our trade association members also include organisations such as the Scottish Grocers Federation which, through its 700 members, represents 2,500 food retail outlets in Scotland, and the British Hardware Federation, which has just over 300 members in Scotland. Other association members include the National Federation of Retail Newsagents, which has 2,200 members in Scotland, and the Booksellers Association of Great Britain and Ireland, which has 274 members. You can see that our organisation has a diverse membership. Retailing employs 216,000 people in 25,000 outlets across Scotland. The figures for 1996 show retail turnover at £15.5 billion, so it is a major sector in the Scottish economy. I turn now to the submission that we made to this committee two weeks ago. We drew attention to the weightings survey that we recently carried out. It showed that business rates, as a cost, represent on average 1.5 per cent of the turnover of a retail business, or 17 per cent of a retailer's operational profits. We also draw the committee's attention to a recent survey, conducted among its membership by the British Hardware Federation in 1997, which found that rates represented 10.1 per cent of the operational turnover of a typical hardware business and 22.5 per cent of the business's operational profits. The figures suggest that rates are a more significant cost to a small to medium retailer than they are to other types of business. For the information of the committee, I mention that the average rateable value of premises covered by the BHF survey was £18,600, the average rates bill payable being £8,000.Rates are one of the major fixed costs of all retail businesses, whether small or large. In our written submission, we supported a system of transitional relief to protect retailers from the large one-off increases in their rates bills. The consortium asked for that system of relief to be modelled on the regime that was used at the last revaluation of non-domestic property in 1995.I stress that we are not advocating the status quo. Having considered the options for transitional relief that are available and can be implemented prior to next April's revaluation, we have reached the conclusion that the model that was used in 1995 would be fairest to all businesses. The current rating system is not perfect and neither is the system of transitional relief, but we feel that it is well understood by the business community, having been used before, and is perceived to be fair as it limits across the board the percentage increases that businesses will face in their rates bills as a result of the revaluation. The 1995 scheme also gave proportionately more benefit to smaller properties by capping their rates increases at a low level.  One of the central elements of the transitional relief scheme that was used in 1995 was that it was largely self-financing, which meant that the relief to businesses that lost out under the revaluation was paid for by limiting the benefits that other businesses got from the revaluation process.As the committee has heard from the Scottish Executive, there is likely to be an increase of 13 per cent in the total rateable value of non-domestic property as a result of next year's revaluation. The consortium believes that retailers will be among the businesses that will lose most as a result of the revaluation process and that therefore they will be in most need of the protection that will be offered by a system of transitional relief.Mike Flecknoe will now give the committee an insight into the operation of Boots in Scotland and what rates mean to its business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Flecknoe (Scottish Retail Consortium): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 478979,
      "EditedText": "I will express only the view of Boots. Boots is a supporter of high streets and town centres and wants small businesses to thrive as they add to the vitality of those centres, which benefits all. We support small businesses seeking help from the Government but we do not think that that help is best delivered through the use of non-domestic rates.There are three main variables to be considered when looking at the liability of business rates: the rateable value; the uniform business rate; and any transitional relief that might apply. The rateable value is the benchmark by which we compare different types of property in different locations. The uniform business rate and the transitional relief are largely the same for all types of property so it is the rateable value that drives the differences in liability. The problem with the rateable value is that it is the equivalent of an annual rent. That means that what drives the rateable value is not the size of a business but the rent that it pays. It is a property occupation tax, not a business tax.The Federation of Small Businesses has called for discounts for properties with low rateable values. On the face of it, a low rateable value would seem to indicate a small business, but that is not the case. Car parking spaces attached to large shops and automated telling machines that banks operate are separately assessed and are regarded as separate properties but they are not small businesses. Under the FSB's proposals, almost 10 per cent of the properties that Boots owns would qualify for relief, but Boots is not a small business. The FSB claims that 36.5 per cent of businesses have a rateable value of less than £5,000 but the actual fact is that 36.5 per cent of properties have a rateable value of less than £5,000.We agree that business rates could well form a larger percentage of costs for small businesses than they do for large businesses, but we feel that a more meaningful measure would be to consider the rates liability as a percentage of net profit.We run our stores as separate businesses across the country. We have tried to do a study to find out what percentage of profits is taken up by rates. The assumption is that there is a correlation between rateable value and the percentage of profits that rates take up. Our study showed that there is no such correlation.The main problem is in using rateable values to identify small businesses. We think that other forms of taxation, based on income or profitability, provide a more reliable measure in identifying very small businesses. That would also ensure that any moneys that were available to the small business sector would be shared across that sector only, and not with stores such as ours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 478982,
      "EditedText": "We are aware that a great deal of the committee's attention has so far focused on the proposals for a system of rates relief for small businesses. We have had sight of the submission that the Federation of Small Businesses made to Jack McConnell, and I shall briefly give the Scottish Retail Consortium's view on that, which has been hinted at in Mike and Brian's comments.The FSB's plan is not a model for a system of transitional relief; it is a model for a system of small business rates relief, as the FSB itself has indicated in the submission. Even if the FSB's proposal were implemented, it would still leave a large number of businesses—particularly retailers—facing significant increases in their rates bills, with severe implications for profitability and operation because of the lack of a transitional relief scheme. We are concerned that, under the scheme proposed by the FSB, businesses with a rateable value of more than £7,500 could also face an extra 3.5 per cent surcharge in their rates bills to pay for the FSB's scheme. Those factors could lead to many businesses losing twice as a result of the revaluation process. The Scottish Retail Consortium wants the Scottish Parliament to implement a system of transitional relief to protect businesses from the impact of the revaluation process. The model that we favour is the regime used in the 1995 revaluation. The system of transitional relief is essential to the business community to give it an opportunity to phase in over a period of time the increases in rates bills resulting from April's revaluation. If the committee is minded to consider offering additional support to smaller businesses, the consortium would ask that that support be funded centrally by the Scottish Executive and that the cost not simply be passed on to other businesses, many of which already experience a difficult trading environment. If members of the committee have any questions, we will do our best to answer them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 478995,
      "EditedText": "If you chose to pass the cost on to businesses, they would be faced with an additional tab to that amount. Either way, the scheme would create losers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 478998,
      "EditedText": "The only SRC member that I am aware of that owns a significant amount of property is Marks and Spencer, which has 22 stores in Scotland. My understanding is that the company is trying to divest itself of that property interest. The Gyle centre, for example, has been put up for sale, which gives a clear indication that the company sees little benefit in owning property."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 478999,
      "EditedText": "As Kenny Gibson said, last week we questioned the Federation of Small Businesses. In response to one of my questions, the federation said that it would prefer tax increases to money being taken out of the block grant. You have dismissed some of the federation's arguments. Do you dismiss that one too?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 479000,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult for me to comment, as we have major concerns about the FSB's proposals. It would not be appropriate for me to say how we think that something with which we disagree should be funded. We want to indicate that we have concerns about the implications of the scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 479002,
      "EditedText": "I have not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 479010,
      "EditedText": "The key word from what the Scottish Executive has said is \"average\". A 13 per cent increase in the total rateable base would imply a 13 per cent change, on average, in property. Retailers tend to operate from more heavily rated premises. Some of them operate at out-of-town locations, and the indication is that, this time round, those will be significantly impacted by the revaluation process. Mr Ewing's points were valid on the whole, but there are extremes within the process which must be recognised by a system of transitional relief, which is what we are advocating. If a system of transitional relief was implemented and the average change was 13 per cent, many people would not be affected by it. Among our members, however, some will benefit from and receive protection from such a scheme because it operates at the extremes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick Browne: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 479015,
      "EditedText": "The consortium carried out a survey of all its members. I think that the results are in the submission that we made last week; they indicated that business rates, as a cost, represent on average 1.5 per cent of a retail business's turnover or 17 per cent of a retailer's operational profits.Mr Ewing is interested in the small or medium retailer. The figure that he is looking for may be in the British Hardware Federation's 1997 survey of its members, which showed that rates represented 10.1 per cent of a hardware business's operational turnover and 22.5 per cent of its operational profits. We do not dispute the figures that were produced by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions. We question how the imbalance should be addressed and whether the rating system is the best way of doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Flecknoe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 479017,
      "EditedText": "I am not a tax expert."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Flecknoe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 479019,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to come up with suggestions instead of saying that this or that proposal is a bad idea. The committee would need to bring in taxation experts to answer that question.The problem with business rates is how we associate small businesses with rateable value; it is as simple as that. As for alternatives, I do not know. Although I have some sympathy with what you say, that is not the official view of Boots. The committee would have to talk to experts from Boots on performance taxation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 479024,
      "EditedText": "Like Johann, I should declare an interest. I am also a member of the Co-operative party, albeit not with a constituency agreement.When Bill Howat from the Scottish Executive attended the committee, he indicated that the Executive's view was that it wanted to give business the stability of getting through the current rating revaluation exercise with a degree of confidence and without any great shocks to business systems. However, he also indicated—albeit without the same suggestion that this was the Executive's view—that there may be a window of opportunity once the exercise is completed to undertake a revaluation of the whole system.Would it be fair to say that you favour gaining stability from the completion of the rating revaluation exercise, with possibly a longer-term revaluation, using the window of opportunity that will come in a year or two?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 479027,
      "EditedText": "We have it until 1 o'clock, officially, but the meeting could run on, as there are no committee meetings this afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 479033,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy for us to carry on? It is likely to be well after 1 o'clock before we finish.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 479034,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful if members would simply ask questions, rather than giving a story before they asked a question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 479035,
      "EditedText": "Why did you look at Fergus when you said that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 479036,
      "EditedText": "I was not looking at Fergus. I was looking around the table.  I have new glasses.Welcome to the committee, Mr Dowds. I know that you were here earlier, so you will know that the format is a presentation followed by questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C479040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 479040,
      "EditedText": "Is that where the taper is being suggested?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C479042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 479042,
      "EditedText": "I have another point of clarification. The Scottish Executive's statement last week suggested that the rate poundage is set in order to achieve the Executive's policy and that the income from ratepayers is due to remain broadly constant. Essentially, the increases in the rateable value will not necessarily lead to an equivalent increase in bills. You mentioned something about that earlier. Are you rejecting that statement or simply qualifying it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 479043,
      "EditedText": "That will be the case overall. Let us say that only one business existed in Scotland, that business would experience a 13 per cent increase in its rateable value. However, at 48.9p, the poundage will come down by about 13 per cent, plus a little bit for inflation; therefore, the increase will be smaller. However, there are 250,000 businesses in Scotland, not one. There is a significant minority that will pay much higher increases than the average to which we referred. Some businesses will benefit from significant decreases. The Executive's paper suggests that the decreases should fund the increases, as happened under the two previous revaluation relief schemes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Goulding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 479047,
      "EditedText": "It could be, but it does not have to be. As with any relief scheme, there are different ways of funding it. It could be funded through central funds, from other taxation; by raising the general poundage so that it is spread across business rates payers in general; or by broadening the base of business rates to incorporate premises that are not currently covered. We could also change the basis of the valuation process so that certain types of premises pay more—out-of-town superstores might be an example of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 479049,
      "EditedText": "It is hard to predict what the increases for individual businesses will be. If we consider previous revaluations, we can see that it is a case of swings and roundabouts, because certain businesses, in more desirable areas, will attract a higher rateable value. It depends on what the market is prepared to pay. We are in a strong economy and we know that rental values have been increasing sharply over the last 18 months—as I know from my experience of trying to buy a house in Edinburgh, having returned from England. There has been a real shift. The federation's scheme fails on the principal criterion that we outlined earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Goulding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 479051,
      "EditedText": "It means what they would pay; that is, the valuation times the multiplier. That would not include any transitional relief, as the object is that by reducing the amount that small businesses pay, transitional relief would not be needed. There is less effect on businesses that are paying a high multiple increase on a much smaller figure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Goulding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 479053,
      "EditedText": "Yes is the short answer. I would not like to pre-empt our Scottish response, but in our English and Welsh response to the Department of Trade and Industry, we suggested that attention might be given to the top end of such a taper. We suggested that the large multiples should be excluded completely from transitional relief, for two reasons: first, because rates are such a small proportion of their overall turnover profitability; and secondly, because of the administrative swings and roundabouts involved. In other words, for businesses such as Tesco or Asda, with premises all round the country, rates are going up in some places and down in others. You are adding to the costs on local authorities with what is essentially a meaningless swap of funds between one Tesco store and another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Goulding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 479055,
      "EditedText": "Aspects of the central rating of certain types of property such as power grids, Ministry of Defence properties and other central government properties are not properly accounted for at the moment. Such properties are rated, but not on the same basis as a corner shop. We could broaden the base by changing the attention that is given to those classes of property."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 479064,
      "EditedText": "I might have missed this, but what would be the total cost of your proposal if it were funded from the Scottish block?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 479066,
      "EditedText": "That is the same as the FSB's scheme would cost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.9098576+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 479075,
      "EditedText": "We would urge great caution on the statistical information in the main submission by the Federation of Small Businesses. It was based on the federation's analysis of a limited area in Scotland and did not cover most of the country. The analysis was based on current values, but—as you have heard—we are in the middle of a revaluation. From 1 April, there will be new values. The analysis that the federation has carried out is, therefore, suspect. Furthermore, any scheme in which the main criterion for inclusion is the rateable value of businesses would undoubtedly benefit some large businesses, as we have heard this morning—10 per cent of Boots's properties, for example, would be included.As practitioners who would have to deal with the large number of appeals that would be generated, we would also urge caution. As well as assessors, valuation committees, which are the place of first resort, would be faced with a substantial increase in work load.Our main recommendation to the committee would be to take a step back. We suggest that the matter go out to consultation immediately after the revaluation, when new values are known. At that time, you will be able to choose as many subjects in whatever range of rateable value that you want and carry out an analysis or survey of the types of occupier of the properties. The cost of implementation of any changes could also be considered in much greater detail. At that point, you may welcome suggestions about how changes might be funded.As an association, we can assure the committee that we are prepared to co-operate fully in any further consultation and to supply any statistical information that you or the firm that you appoint to conduct the analysis request. We will take all necessary steps to ensure that, whatever the eventual decision, it is implemented fully and properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell (Scottish Assessors Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 479072,
      "EditedText": "We will be talking about what we have heard this morning, unless committee members want us to go back to our previous presentations. Members of the Scottish Assessors Association take a view as practitioners. We are the people who produce the valuations for the rating system, and it is not proper for us to express any view on policy. If Parliament decided to implement a system of small business rates relief, it would be a matter for Parliament and we would do our best to co-operate with the will of Parliament. I will therefore not comment on any policy areas that have been mentioned in the past hour and a half. I shall comment on one or two practical points that have been made in the submissions, and give some general background. I am the assessor for the Lothian valuation joint board, with responsibility for Edinburgh and for the three Lothian councils—West, East and Midlothian. I have more than 20 qualified chartered surveyors on my staff, who will carry out the task of revaluation of all domestic and non-domestic properties. I will give the committee details of that process. Consistency is obviously important, so staff work closely to the instructions that are issued. However, I remind them that they are trained, qualified chartered surveyors and advise them to have a good look before arriving at decisions. A street half of whose shops are empty tells a valuer something, as do rents, and surveyors must take cognisance of every factor before arriving at levels for rateable value. Having said that, the system depends on assessors working to facts. If there is a sustainable level of rental value—rather than one high rent in a street—assessors must use that. If they did not, the whole system would be based in sand. If an assessor made a subjective decision to reduce a value by, say, 50 per cent, the whole system would become open to any sort of challenge. All the work of assessors can be challenged through the local valuation appeal committee and the lands valuation appeal court, which can ask to see evidence of how valuations were arrived at. We are checkable and we are qualified, professional people. We do our best to implement the system in as fair and as sympathetic a manner as we can, but we have to work on the basis of the facts as we find them.Many of the submissions this morning have dealt with whether a property tax is the proper way in which to raise local government finance, which is a huge policy issue. Members will not expect me to give an impartial view on that, as it is entirely outwith my remit. However, several points might be of interest. The Scottish Retail Consortium said that retailers would experience the largest increase in rateable values as a result of revaluation. Retailers occupy a whole range of properties, from very small ones to the kind of property owned by Marks and Spencer and retail warehouses. Without giving away any trade secrets, I believe that the largest increases will be for properties whose rents are increased the most, which will almost certainly be in the successful high streets—such as Princes Street—and operations such as retail warehouses with high values. As one of the members said, that is in part because effectively those organisations take trade away from other areas. Rents will decline in other areas to reflect the fact that there is not as much business there as there used to be because of changes in shopping patterns. One legitimate problem with the introduction of a relief system for small businesses is how to deal with companies, such as Boots, which have branches that might be considered as small businesses because, under the broad criteria, they have a rateable value of £5,000, £7,500 or whatever, but which could not be considered as a small business in any real sense. That will have to be considered. The issue of profits has also been raised. Turnover is used as a basis for valuation only for public houses and hotels. Rents are taken into account, but it is generally agreed within the surveying profession that the valuation is directly related to turnover. Gross turnover has always been used, for the simple reason that if one uses profit, one discovers that there is not a profit-making pub in Edinburgh—if anyone can believe that—as gross turnover can be written off in many ways. We also consider other factors that might influence the rent. That is all that I want to say about the consortium's statement. The Forum of Private Business talked a lot about national insurance. It would not be proper for me to comment on that, but I want to dispute one of the technical points that was made. It was stated that small businesses pay a higher rate per square foot than do large businesses. I do not see how that can be true. If we compare Marks and Spencer, which pays around £900 per square metre for its shopfront on Princes Street, with a tertiary shop, which might pay £50 per square metre, Marks and Spencer pays more whichever way one looks at it. Marks and Spencer generates more business, so it can afford to pay more. It could be argued that the property costs for small businesses are disproportionate, but that is another argument. Zoning—the belief that the front part of the shop is the most valuable, because that is where most customers are likely to arrive and do business—was also mentioned. Zoning is a well-established system of valuation and is used throughout the United Kingdom. Private practice surveyors who argue against the valuations that I place on properties always refer to zoning. The courts have also considered zoning and have found it to be a fair and equitable system. However, it does not matter whether zoning is used; at the end of the day, the rented properties and valuations are stacked against one another and we check that they are the same, or mainly the same. That is the end test of any valuation system—the audit. Whether zones are used should make no difference. The forum made a rather useful point about thresholds. As Mr Gibson said in response to the federation, if thresholds of £5,000 or £7,500 are set, that creates cliff edges, which are a bad idea. The result would be gross disparities of £600 to £800 for a £2 or £3 difference of rateable value. Such an approach would be a non-starter and would create a great deal of scope for appeals at the margins. On council tax, all our appeals came from people whose properties fell just inside one of the higher bands and who wanted them placed below the threshold. The more bands and thresholds, the more appeals there will be—it is as simple as that.Finally, the forum made a technical point about the old utilities—gas and electricity—which it felt, were not properly valued. Gas, electricity and the railways are valued by prescription—the secretary of state gives us the figures and we work out values from them. All the utilities have argued for a long time that they are overvalued and that reductions should be made. During the past two revaluations, they have asked for conventional valuation. They have not got it yet, but they may do so in 2005.This morning, we received some good advice: if we are going to make fundamental changes to the system—and some of the changes that have been proposed, such as basing evaluations on national insurance, are fundamental—we should carry out corporate research first and not rush into anything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 479074,
      "EditedText": "You may go ahead, if you can manage that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 479078,
      "EditedText": "Properly done, zoning should not make any difference. The principle is that the front part of the shop is more valuable and that the property becomes less valuable as it goes back. The back of a Marks and Spencer shop—if that shop is entered only from one street—might represent a very small part of the value. Let us imagine a street with four shops: when those shops are zoned, they have an average value of £8,000 and an average rateable value of £7,900—that should always be the check. If they are not zoned, the same figure should be reached. The rents and the final values are always stacked up, whichever way it is done. To compare a Princes Street shop to a tertiary or secondary shop is not realistic—they are different worlds. The system should not be disadvantageous to small businesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 479079,
      "EditedText": "I have received complaints on two issues, although other members may have received complaints on different issues. The first is that the sort of Comet warehouse-type place pays less than it should, when compared with a traditional shop. The second is that, because of the different kinds of pubs and so on, people who dish out booze think that they have a problem. I have had representations from various parts of central Scotland from people who think that they pay too much. Can you assure us that there is a proverbial level playing field for the Comets versus the ordinary shops and for the pubs versus shops?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C479083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 479083,
      "EditedText": "If the publicans are right when they say that they are being shafted by the owners, that means that they are paying an undue rent, which would be reflected in an undue rate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C479085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 479085,
      "EditedText": "So the faster you drink, the cleaner it gets. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C479088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 479088,
      "EditedText": "The point is that they will have an additional incentive if they can get the threshold down, rather than just a few pounds off the rateable value."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 479096,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that Mr McMahon meant that. The idea is that I write the report with Eugene Windsor's help. If members want me to include a particular issue, they should give me some written information. I will bring the report to a committee meeting at which we can discuss and amend it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C479099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 479099,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C479100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 479100,
      "EditedText": "That is what I meant. We have heard a range of different views, which we should discuss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C479102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 479102,
      "EditedText": "I would prefer it if we had a document in front of us to work to. My fear of discussions is that we may run into the sand, so that when we get the report, we will want to discuss it anyway. We should ask the convener to outline the basic shape of what we will be reporting on. That will enable us quickly to identify the points of contention. The issues that we discuss will come partly from our perceptions of what was said, but it will be helpful if we have a document to work round."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 479105,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy to leave the timetabling to the clerk and me? You will appreciate that the business rates issue came to us through a series of other committees, so it has been added to our programme. That is why we have overrun so long today. Eugene and I will timetable something. I will produce a paper to give you some sort of outline as to what we believe are the relevant points. The committee can add to that and then I will write the report. That seems to be my job.I thank you all very much. It is late and it must have been difficult to jump from proportional representation to the business rate. It was well worth doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C479111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conference Report",
      "HeadingID": 12944,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 12944,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 479111,
      "EditedText": "Donald Gorrie has given us the paper on the conference that he attended. He has stated that he does not wish to add to it. If anyone would like to ask him questions outwith the meeting, that is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:15.5192147+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 479014,
      "EditedText": "We heard from the Federation of Small Businesses that its members pay 10 times as much in business rates, as a proportion of profit, as do plcs. The Forum of Private Business informed us that business rates take up 25 per cent of gross profit for its members and 5 per cent for the plcs. Those organisations consulted their members and provided evidence. You say that you do not have a view because of the disparate nature of your membership, which ranges from a newsagent to Safeway and Tesco. Do you have any information on the proportion of your members' profits that is taken by business rates?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:26.054279+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 479044,
      "EditedText": "I was very impressed by the clarity of the presentation. The tables referred to national insurance classes 1, 2 and 3. What about class 4?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:26.054279+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 479048,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned that the Federation of Small Businesses proposal would fail if one property's rateable value rose from £3,000 to £9,000. Is that likely, given that we have been told that the average increase will be 13 per cent? You are postulating a 300 per cent increase. If that is unlikely, perhaps you are being a wee bit hard on the FSB proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:26.054279+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C479086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2702
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12943,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12943,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 479086,
      "EditedText": "You indicated that if the Federation of Small Businesses' scheme went ahead you would be flooded with appeals. Is it not the case—given what you have said—that because the average rateable value increase will be around 10 to 15 per cent, as opposed to 33 per cent last time, you will have far fewer appeals based on rateable value than you had last time round?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:26.054279+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 156116,
      "EditedText": "Is that primarily for the business panel?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 156117,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 156120,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in those areas as well as in any suggestions that folk might have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 156122,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that the issue of overlap will dominate our line of questioning, so I will spread responsibility for asking questions on that subject around members.I welcome the first group of witnesses. We have described them in our paper as a business panel. I detected at our last meeting that members were very interested in hearing from the users of services, in addition to the providers of services, from whom we have heard a great deal. This is the first step in doing that.The witnesses are John Downie from the Federation of Small Businesses, Matthew Farrow of the Confederation of British Industry and Gerry Dowds from the Forum of Private Business. I invite each of them to give, briefly, their perspective on the issues with which the committee is wrestling, and any other introductory remarks, before we move on to direct questioning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matthew Farrow (Confederation of British Industry Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 156124,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. The Confederation of British Industry Scotland represents about 25,000 companies across Scotland covering all sectors of the economy. We represent companies both as direct members and through trade associations—about 60 trade associations in Scotland are members of the CBI. As we have no vested interest in the local economic development system, we do not provide formalised economic development services. We do some work around benchmarking for our members and hold best practice seminars, but we do not have a role in the economic development system. My main opening point is that I receive variable feedback from our members on the effectiveness of economic development agencies. That feedback varies by size of business, sector and type of business. Traditional small and medium enterprises tend to be more antagonistic, oddly enough, than the more modern, high-tech companies. It also varies by involvement: those companies that have some involvement in the system and that work with it tend to be more positive than those who have not had that involvement. I am happy to talk about that feedback in more detail.We do not have a detailed blueprint for the reform of the system. As the thrust of its inquiry, the committee is right to ask whether there is an overlap and to put the onus of proof on the system to demonstrate that there is none. Clearly, too many bodies are involved in the system. Many were established for historical reasons, which is understandable, but, once they become involved in an activity, they have their own vested interests and agenda and it becomes difficult to try to rationalise the system. There are advantages in involving a wide array of bodies in economic development. For example, it is hard to reach the SME market. Many SMEs in Scotland will not join John's organisation, Gerry's organisation or my organisation or chambers of commerce. However, so many bodies are involved that there must be an overlap in the system.The system's strength is that it is fairly stable. In the past, we have undertaken surveys of members across the UK, seeking their views of local economic development services. Scottish companies tend to rate the Scottish system higher than the English system; one of the biggest complaints from members in England is that the system changes all the time. Part of our evidence to the small business services consultation exercise was that it would produce just another change in England. We need to be cautious if we are to change the Scottish system.It is fair to say that efforts have been made within the system to try to make it work better. I know that the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the chambers of commerce and Scottish Enterprise have tried to make the local bodies work better together. I get a sense from CBI members that local enterprise companies have made efforts to make themselves more accessible to SMEs and to reduce jargon and bureaucracy where they can. However, given that the system involves semi-autonomous local agencies, one is bound to get bureaucracy and conflicting priorities. We should be asking whether we are reaching the end of the improvements that can be made to an organic system, whether we want to make a more fundamental change or whether there is a danger of upsetting the system's stability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 156126,
      "EditedText": "Could you wind up, Gerry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 156127,
      "EditedText": "The latest surveys, done in 1999, show that the LECs are getting better. The future of the LECs, however, depends on their getting to grips with how SMEs operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 156130,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that it would be better if those organisations were drawn closer together under one effective development agency and did not have as much autonomy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 156132,
      "EditedText": "Is the delivery of the strategy hindered by the number of organisations? As I understand it, there are contractual relationships between the delivery mechanisms and local enterprise company funders. Those contracts should specify what is to be delivered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 156134,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. gentlemen. John, do you agree with Gerry Dowds that the LECs do not understand small business? Is that unanimous?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 156143,
      "EditedText": "That is a fundamental issue. There are 33 major internal issues that SMEs have to tackle or they will go bust. There are probably 400 to 500 things that they need to tackle on a weekly basis. There are also regulatory and legislative external issues that they must tackle. The idea that a LEC, or any other single agency, could understand all that and deliver it to local companies is a fallacy; it is mission impossible. It would be far better to consider giving LECs or another government-funded agency the role of signposting businesses towards people or agencies who can deal with the specifics. There is no point pretending that there are people who are always expert on all forms of business.England is a disaster in those terms, because the business links were taken a step further. It has proven that such links are dead. It is a bomb with a long fuse that is going to go phut. We must recognise that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 156144,
      "EditedText": "Matthew, can I ask you to expand and answer your own question. You asked whether we are reaching the end of an organic system. Can you answer that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 156148,
      "EditedText": "I am still not clear where the accountants come in. Presumably they interface with the existing agencies. What we want to establish is whether your members do not bother to deal with the existing agencies because they short-circuit the system by going to their accountants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 156151,
      "EditedText": "There were three questions. I have even written them down, just to make sure you get answers, George."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 156152,
      "EditedText": "To be honest, it would take all day to answer George's questions.Out of our 13,500 members, we had 2,000 replies to our survey, the results of which we are releasing tomorrow. That is 57 per cent of the membership that deal with the LEC network in some shape or form, whether through phoning up for information or advice or through applying for grants. Those members saw a big business bias. Although the LEC network has improved since its introduction, at the start there was a tendency towards Reaganomics—the idea that helping big business would benefit the small business sector through a trickle-down effect. That has changed and some of the LECs have now shifted their priorities to the small business sector.I do not think that LECs understand how a small business operates. We could all give examples of what happens when companies apply for grants. By the time a decision has been made, the paperwork completed and the money approved, the business opportunity has already passed. The same applies to applications for regional selective assistance to local authorities and the Scottish Executive. We understand that, where public money is concerned, systems have to be in place; however, that is a small example of how LECs do not understand small businesses.Last week, I spoke to the accountant of a well-known furniture manufacturer. The company has stopped applying for grants because the process is simply too much hassle and, by the time the money has been received, the opportunity has disappeared. Companies could do with the money, but the process does not benefit them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 156154,
      "EditedText": "Although the process is being streamlined down to six weeks, a decision can take as long as 12 weeks. It all depends on how the local agency responds and performs. Some of the smaller LECs can make a decision much quicker than some of the larger LECs. There are variables within the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 156159,
      "EditedText": "What about enterprise trusts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 156160,
      "EditedText": "There is a role for enterprise trusts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 156161,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that is answering the question. Which organisations can the committee examine for best practice in the small business sector? I want you to name them."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156163",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 156163,
      "EditedText": "Well, which ones?"
    },
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    "ID": "C156173",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
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      "EditedText": "I have given copies to the clerk for distribution after the meeting."
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 156169,
      "EditedText": "I strongly encourage you to examine the telephone advice service that the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service provides, which is probably the best in the UK. I have just returned to Scotland after having lived in England for 16 years; ACAS is marvellous. It falls down in one area—it does not give advice, but information, and the business owner has to decide how to act on that information. However, its information is excellent. The Contributions Agency and the Board of Customs and Excise are also quite good, but those are specialist agencies.If I may blow my own organisation's trumpet, I strongly recommend that you look at how we handle our members' concerns. A lady called Jane Davies does a marvellous job. I will return to that when we come to discuss best practice."
    },
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matthew Farrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 156177,
      "EditedText": "We do not have a blueprint for reform because we tend to concentrate on issues that members identify to us as problems. A lot of our work at the moment is therefore about the transport system and the climate change levy. Yesterday, the Government accepted some of our arguments about those. Although we pick up a variety of comments from our members, we have not had a lot of members complaining to us about the enterprise network system or saying that it is a complete disaster and is not working. It is just one of the issues that we are considering. From the evidence that I have heard from our members, I do not think that we have enough information to say what ought to be done. Because of the committee's inquiry, however, it is a matter that we are considering carefully."
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matthew Farrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
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      "EditedText": "We do two things. We talk to our members on a continuing basis about a range of issues. I could give the committee details of their comments if that would be of interest. I am not sure that a survey would enable us to conclude that enterprise bodies do not work or to say how the system should change. It is useful to get data from firms on the ground, but one also needs to examine the funding systems and the way in which decisions are made. That has to be done by examining the bodies themselves. We try to do that, and I would be interested to see what the committee will conclude.Saying simply that 80 per cent of our members have a certain experience is not a good basis on which to propose a change to the system. That is why the CBI uses surveys to get background data on economic conditions and broad priorities. We then use our committee systems to look in detail at issues that affect businesses and at the way in which we can make a difference. As I said, we have done a huge amount of work on the climate change levy. If the committee were considering that, I could provide reams of data on how different sectors are affected, because our members, large and small, approached us to tell us that it was a threat to their businesses and to ask the CBI to do something about it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156183",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matthew Farrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 156183,
      "EditedText": "Gerry is right to say that SMEs provide more training than they are given credit for. Although there is a perception that small businesses do not train very much, our evidence suggests that much training in small businesses is informal and on the job. Small businesses are very good places to pick up employability skills. However, the labour force survey data do not highlight the amount of training that goes on in SMEs.Good network support is variable because small businesses are more constrained by time and availability of staff than by cash. It is difficult for outside agencies to make a big difference in that respect. There are also difficulties with the auditing and contracting arrangements for schemes such as youth training and modern apprenticeships. The university for industry and individual learning accounts might provide an answer, because if they work well—which remains to be seen—they could make it easier for some small firms to offer training to their staff. However, the question is whether firms will regard an employee with an ILA as someone who is committed to training, who will then be encouraged to make contributions to that training; or whether firms will take no interest whatsoever.Bodies such as ours will have to work with members on the UFI and ILAs. The UFI has to get right some tricky operational aspects. For example, there are proposals for making the UFI partly self-funding through its endorsement of products. Many small firms might then think that the UFI will endorse any open learning product just to get some money, which will make them distrust the quality of the product. However, in principle, the UFI and ILAs could be part of the answer."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 156184,
      "EditedText": "Do you have anything to add, John?"
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  {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 156193,
      "EditedText": "How is the gap to be bridged?"
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    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156200",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
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      "ContributionID": 156200,
      "EditedText": "Earlier, all the members of the panel talked about issues such as how many people did not know where to ask for advice. Somebody said that not all firms are members of bodies such as yours. Do you agree that there should be a centrally controlled and funded network of business shops, or some other contact point, to act as a filter and to point people in different directions?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
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      "EditedText": "I am not satisfied that the business shop network is working as effectively as it should. I do not know how many calls the business shops receive, but the network should do what you said."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
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      "EditedText": "There is competition in delivery in that field."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
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      "EditedText": "Is that not the fundamental point? The concept behind the business shops or the Scottish university for industry is that they should be a contact mechanism whereby an inquirer accesses focused information on the services that are available from the multiplicity of organisations. The central question is whether that is provided and whether it is accessible."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
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      "EditedText": "The number of agencies in Glasgow was mentioned earlier—on commercial radio stations, one can hear each agency advertising its own telephone number. The idea was that one business shop number would be advertised to businesses—they could phone that number and automatically be connected to their local agency. Now we have agencies competing with one another for people to phone them. The number of calls to the business shop number has increased over the years, but I have not read any report on effectiveness.I have a copy of a 15-page document that lists current Scottish Executive initiatives for business, but does not list the initiatives of Highlands and Islands Enterprise or Scottish Enterprise. Even for someone in the business shop, there is much information to assimilate in order to find the right information. There are major problems with the number of initiatives."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is vital. You are going down the right track towards a solution. There will be no single organisation, no matter how locally based, that can do everything that Scottish Enterprise is trying to do. It is mission impossible—doubly mission impossible when fundamentally it does not understand the needs of SMEs. I want Scottish Enterprise to prove that it understands their needs, because to date it has demonstrated that it does not.The solution that falls out of the identified training needs is to allow the LECs to be primarily signposters of services. What other role could they play? I guess that it would be along the lines of what they are already used for: 30 per cent of our members are using them for training assistance and 16 per cent for skills and employment. With regard to LECs, that is an indication of what the demand-led services are required for. The solution should come out of the identification and understanding of the needs of SMEs. The role of the LECs would then become more clearly defined. However, I would not jump to a solution until we have examined those topics."
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 156211,
      "EditedText": "If someone contacted a LEC, the LEC would not deal with the question: it would redirect the person to the correct agency. The LECs have a specific role to play. The other agencies should be available so that the LECs can say, \"You need to call this person.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4483629+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matthew Farrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 156213,
      "EditedText": "A multiplicity of delivery bodies can work if there is proper signposting. As John Downie said, the business shops are supposed to do that, but our sense is that they do not. Rather than invent something else, we need to find out what is wrong with business shops. The answer is partly branding. The shops must rise above all the competing interests. The problem is that all the different bodies have their own reasons for existing; some are membership bodies, and some need income from services. They are desperate to get into the market, and that might require the knocking together of some heads.The answer is also partly the training of the advisers in business shops, so that they are acting as more than just a telephone exchange."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 156220,
      "EditedText": "We have run out of time. I thank John Downie, Matthew Farrow and Gerry Dowds for their contribution. George Lyon made some points about information that we would find helpful. We would be delighted to receive any survey information, to quantify some of the points that have been raised.At the beginning of the meeting, I should have said that we have in the gallery the winners of the west of Scotland youth enterprise challenge—St Ninian's school in Glasgow. We had the pleasure of meeting the group that successfully pioneered the St Ninian's dome entrepreneurial project on the Isle of Bute, which led to the school's success in the competition. We welcome them today, and hope that they enjoy observing the proceedings.We now move on to the second group of witnesses—representatives of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities—who have been anxious to make a contribution to the work of the committee. We were unable to involve COSLA in our briefing meetings in August and September, but I am glad that we have found the opportunity today. I welcome Councillor David Hamilton, who is convener of the COSLA development services forum, and I invite him to introduce his team."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Stone (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 156224,
      "EditedText": "I am head of policy development within COSLA, and I cover this area. In a previous existence, I was much more directly involved in Strathclyde Regional Council's grants and training schemes."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C156226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 156226,
      "EditedText": "I will answer part of that. About four years ago, local authorities became unitary authorities, which in many ways assisted in best practice beginning to be established through the LECs. The story on the effectiveness and importance of LECs is different throughout the central belt and in northern Scotland. What is correct for the north of Scotland might not be correct for Glasgow, in which case it will not be correct for Edinburgh and it might not be correct for the Borders. Each area must be dealt with differently. The strength of the LECs is that they are all things to all people and deal with matters in the best way for that area. That versatility is the key to a strong LEC. With the support of COSLA and the local authorities in those areas, the LECs are best placed to identify what is right in that location. Local government has been going through a best practice regime for four years and is continuing to go through that process. We must carry out all our activities according to best practice. LECs have had to undertake a similar exercise through Scottish Enterprise; in many cases, they feel that that restricts their versatility. We have attempted, through the various councils, to deal with matters in local areas. Jim might be able to give specific examples of best practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156229",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Cunningham: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 156229,
      "EditedText": "We are seeing change, and we recognise that we must be more effective in the delivery of services. In Renfrewshire, I want to establish a more effective account management, or client management, system. If a company is dealing with someone from Renfrewshire Council's economic development team, it should be helped through the panoply of assistance that is available from other sources—it should have a company friend, who takes the company through the various support measures that other organisations can offer. It is important for us to develop that line. I encountered some resistance, which came from two extremes, in taking that proposal forward in partnership with the enterprise company. While it was understandable that one extreme involved budgetary control, financial responsibility and financial accountability, the other extreme concerned who would get credit for what. We have overcome that and are moving towards implementing the proposal. Our neighbouring council, Inverclyde, has an emerging partnership with Renfrewshire Enterprise. The business staff of both organisations will be collocated, a move that is partly driven by geographical remoteness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 156233,
      "EditedText": "Is each local authority a member of the board?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 156237,
      "EditedText": "Let me give you an alternative example, on a similar issue. If a business lies just outside any of the big cities, it might encounter a perceived problem. We are based just outside Edinburgh—seven miles away is the county town of Dalkeith. In the past two years, we have established a business shop. Along with Midlothian enterprise trust, last year we established Midlothian chamber of commerce. The council played a pivotal role in each of those developments, for the reasons that have been described.City development has a pulling power, which means that small companies, SMEs and micro-companies feel isolated. For the cities, there is therefore a need to begin to drive outwards—that is what I meant earlier by horses for courses. There are different answers for different places. The best organisations to deal with those are on the ground, in the areas where people belong and where the companies are beginning to develop. Action could be taken in a focused way, which is not always the case if a centralised view is taken. Scottish Enterprise has its LECs: it deals from the centre and flows outwards. The issue is to try to ensure that the LECs work innovatively. However, LEEL is a big LEC, which must be decentralised, to mean something to people.On economic development, people—including businesses—invariably come to the council with a range of questions. A signposting system showing where businesses can get the best possible advice is in operation throughout the local authorities. That is where accountability begins to kick in. Education and industry must work hand in hand; the link between local authorities and industry is pivotal to the future of the country. It is therefore logical to talk in terms of the partnership being embedded more strongly than it was in the past. We are well on the way to doing that, but there will be problems. I hope that that addresses your point."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156239",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 156239,
      "EditedText": "East Lothian is the furthest away in terms of distance. However, the problem that you mention does exist."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 156241,
      "EditedText": "First, we eliminate at our peril the opportunity for companies to go to whoever it is that they wish to go to. You therefore have a problem. You can streamline an organisation so that signposting tells people where to go to get this and where to go to get that. However, you must also have options for individuals and companies. That is an important issue, as not everybody wants to be an FSB member or involved with different organisations. The issue is not going to be clear-cut. LEEL works within Lothian, where there are four local authorities. In many cases, working in partnership eliminates what we commonly call rubs, where friction can exist. It eliminates the friction but it will not resolve all the issues, because each organisation or company wants something different from a LEC or a local authority. You cannot be all things to all people. Somewhere along the line, you will disappoint a number of organisations. We must recognise that a small company that goes to an agency with questions will not be back next week asking the same questions. That has to be resolved. An information centre should at least answer the question in a relatively short period. Business shops—which are normally run jointly by local authorities and the enterprise trusts—work well because they open up a whole information network. Satellite offices away from the centre can answer a number of the issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Rolfe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 156247,
      "EditedText": "No. There are a number of areas. Property and business advice can be areas of duplication. Several LECs operate an account system in which officers look after, for example, half a dozen companies each. Sometimes local authorities also do that. Those organisations must have a full and frank dialogue about what they are doing and with which companies they are doing it, because a company can crop up in both portfolios."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 156251,
      "EditedText": "There is duplication, and that is being worked on through the partnership approach, but it is important to remember that that duplication occurs partly because councils are spending discretionary money. Companies are not required to spend anything on economic development. Money that is being spent on it is being spent voluntarily by councils.Often duplication has occurred because a council has perceived that more money than the LEC or other partners have available could be spent on something, or because there is a gap in the market. It is not necessarily the case that two bodies are spending a similar amount of money—councils have been augmenting what is paid by other bodies with money that would not otherwise be available."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C156256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 156256,
      "EditedText": "Does not that cause resentment among councils, because they must find from their own coffers money that they feel the LECs should be providing?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156259",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 156259,
      "EditedText": "Four members want to ask questions. They will have to be brief, as I want to wind up this part of the meeting before 12 o'clock."
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 156260,
      "EditedText": "The issue of duplication has been central to much of the discussion this morning. I believe that you heard the witnesses from bodies representing the customers, who had forceful views on duplication and the need for measures—in one case, radical measures—to get to grips with the network of different provision. Those who supply economic development were accused of failing to understand small businesses. Do you recognise those complaints? How do you envisage that the need for rationalisation will be addressed in the next few years? Obviously, the partnership approach is the first step, but your paper does not go beyond that. Should there be further steps to address the issues of duplication and rationalisation and the needs of business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 156264,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C156269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 156269,
      "EditedText": "It is approximately 1,000, which is about 0.5 per cent of the non-teaching staff of councils.In answer to your second question, early budget figures indicate that about £90 million is spent on fairly direct business support. That does not include some of the other activities that have been mentioned, such as transportation, planning and regulatory services. On measurement, the position is variable. Jim Cunningham may want to say a bit more about that. Work is being carried out through the Scottish local authority economic development group to try to improve measurement. Some councils have had consultants in to assist them with building up measurement, others have done it themselves. The survey suggests that there is great deal of disparity among councils. That is a point that we flagged up in our submission to the committee. We believe that there is scope for improvement and that it would be helpful for the committee to consider some kind of standardisation. On the role of linking planning and economic development, it is worth noting that most councils have restructured their departments. In most councils, a portmanteau department under a single director deals with planning, economic development and, often, transportation and other regulatory services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Cunningham: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 156274,
      "EditedText": "With respect to Councillor Hamilton, I operate as part of a wider planning and transport department where we have daily dialogue with our colleagues in planning to ensure that any difficulties can at least be foreseen and that the company can be led by the hand through the process, so that it does not come up against the sort of bureaucracy that Mr Johnston may have experienced. Mr Johnston raised the issue of measuring success. One of my roles, which I have not mentioned, is every quarter to bring together the heads of economic development of all 32 local authorities to discuss issues of common interest. In many ways, our remit reflects the remit of this committee. We have set up a group to examine how we can measure effectiveness. The group has been working closely with Scottish Enterprise officials to establish a common framework for measuring success. However, convener, you will acknowledge from past experience that that is a difficult issue to address, although it is one that must be considered more closely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 156279,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean that you supply additional services to those offered by the LECs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 156280,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 156281,
      "EditedText": "What this committee must do is to assess the whole field of local economic development and examine how the building blocks should be put together to ensure the best delivery of services. You have said this morning that you are voluntary entrants into the field."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Rolfe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 156283,
      "EditedText": "Overlap and duplication do not necessarily create competition; they can lead to augmentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 156284,
      "EditedText": "I am not attacking what you do but trying to find out whether there is a better way of delivering it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 156290,
      "EditedText": "I would like to draw this part of the discussion to a close. I thank David Hamilton, Mervyn Rolfe, Tim Stone and Jim Cunningham for coming this morning and for the paper that was provided in advance. A number of submissions have been made by local authorities and we look forward to considering them in greater detail.We wilI move on to the next part of the inquiry. I welcome to the committee Lex Gold, the director of the Scottish Chambers of Commerce, and his colleagues. I invite Lex to introduce his team, and then we will start the questioning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 156297,
      "EditedText": "We do not have a recent survey. We did not know that you would be examining service provision. Had we known, we would have repeated a survey that we did some time ago. However, we have since learnt that you were considering that topic, so we went to individual chambers and asked members their views. We gained information in that way, rather than through a survey. We would be happy to share the outcome with you."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 156299,
      "EditedText": "We listened to the earlier evidence, but we did not recognise some of it with regard to the views of our members. At a strategic level, Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise broadly have done a good job. Locate in Scotland and Scottish Trade International broadly are also doing a good job. That is not to say that all of our chambers are happy that Locate in Scotland has attracted to the chambers' areas the kind of inward investment that the chambers wish to see. There will always be competition and there will be certain areas that feel they have been short-changed. However, at a broad Scottish level, the chamber movement supports the idea of bringing in inward investors, particularly high added value inward investors.As for local enterprise companies, we had a pretty mixed response. Some very good LECs are working extremely well with the local chamber, the local authority and the community; and there is a middle group of LECs that are performing reasonably well. In the past, there have been one or two that we think have performed less than well. That is not an omnibus view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156300",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 156300,
      "EditedText": "You say that you have information on LECs that have performed very well. Have they performed very well in partnership terms or do they meet the committee's definition of \"performing very well\", which means minimal duplication, clear lines of demarcation and ownership of certain areas of policy and service provision?For example, you talked about the chambers' involvement in exporting. Although I appreciate Scottish Trade International's role in that, to what extent are LECs, local authorities and possibly the chambers and other organisations separately promoting local involvement in export? That means that, although loads of people are involved, the process lacks the impact of gathering resources in one place to feed out to companies."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156305",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 156305,
      "EditedText": "May I just make a final point, John? I shall be very brief."
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156306",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 156306,
      "EditedText": "Of course."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156314",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 156314,
      "EditedText": "What type of organisation would you see tendering for such a contract?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 156315,
      "EditedText": "I would see it as being a consortium of the kind that I have described—of the kind that already works in partnership. Today, you heard from the local authorities about how they are working with a range of people. We are certainly part of that range. With such a base in the community, we would have an opportunity to remove the confusion that currently arises. It is not Panglossian: it is not about having the best of all possible worlds. In any circumstances, there will be flaws in the structure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C156317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 156317,
      "EditedText": "Earlier, we heard from some organisations that there is a lack of understanding of SMEs among some of the economic development agencies. I would be interested to know your view on that, Mr Gold, given that the bulk of your membership is made up of SMEs. I have three questions, which are not directly related to each other. The second is whether the current economic development structure is good for encouraging business start-up. Are there any particular problems with it?My third question is about the chambers of commerce delivering training of one sort or another themselves. How do companies find having such a multiplicity of training providers? The view has been expressed that the university for industry could help considerately with that. Do you agree?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 156318,
      "EditedText": "I will share the answers to those questions out.On SMEs, the point is that there are far too many companies out there for the available support. We have to bear in mind that economic development models are about market failure on the one hand and economic growth on the other. The evidence from the local authorities was pretty near the mark: we will not help all companies. There will be broad criticism because of that. There is a reasonable understanding between local enterprise companies and local authorities about the problems of small and medium companies. However, given what I was saying about the world, that understanding is patchy—I would not say that it is absolute. I think that this committee's focus on small companies is healthy and helps raise the profile, although my colleagues may have a different view.The big problem for small companies when it comes to training is that they cannot allow employees time off to go and be trained. The solution is apparently the digital revolution. UFI can be part of it, but it is not the whole answer. Not all training will be available through television and the internet—a lot more is now—but it is a question of ensuring that employees get that kind of learning if it is available. That will help small companies immeasurably, as there is a problem with their being able to train employees. I missed out the question on business start-up, which I will pass to my colleagues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Burdon (Glasgow Chamber of Commerce): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 156319,
      "EditedText": "Business start-up has a reasonable structure, but support stops as soon as the company has started up. If we are going to go for the franchise solution, we might find the franchise going beyond start-up into work that is missing at the moment, such as mentoring the business, ensuring that it belongs to a network and getting other businesses' advice on expansion. Many people think that business shops are there to help start-ups and do not touch them again. On misunderstanding SMEs, the issue is more that SMEs do not understand that LECs and councils are there to deal with market failures and are not interested in displacement issues. SMEs expect everyone to get a grant; we know that grants are not available for everything. Many grants involve European funding issues and it is not necessarily for councils to decide whether they can give money away, as there are strict guidelines to follow. I do not think that businesses understand that. On training, we find that while employers are interested in training staff for their own work, they are not sufficiently interested to provide training in transferable skills, which would help the Scottish economy in the long run. The chambers and other organisations can help to overcome that problem by leading from the front and ensuring that we promote transferable skills by working with the university for industry and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Cameron (Paisley Chamber of Commerce): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 156320,
      "EditedText": "The lack of understanding of the SME market has been widely referred to for a number of years. One of the problems with SMEs is that they find it difficult to consider how to develop their own businesses and how to tap into the array of available services. There is also a bit of an attitude that says, \"We don't get grant aid, so the service is not working for us.\" Historically, the grant givers, such as LECs and, to a lesser extent, councils, were measured and monitored on numbers. They were asked how many SMEs they helped, how many companies had started up and, two years later, how many were still in business. They were driven by numbers rather than by the quality of advice and support they were giving SMEs. That is a two-way difference that has resulted in SMEs saying, \"You don't understand us.\" At the moment, SMEs are not equipped to tap into the array of available services and it is the role of the chambers and other organisations to help SMEs do that. I agree with Peter Burdon that business shops and agencies provide a lot of advice and support before start-up, but once businesses have started up in some areas of Scotland there seems to be a lack of support to help them develop. I would like to mention the numbers game in relation to business start-ups. We must become more of a risk-taking culture, rather than go for winners all the time. If we start up 100 companies, all of which fail, what have we achieved from a personal development point of view for the individuals involved, who may have been unemployed? We give them skills and help them to develop as individuals. It is important that we do not measure our successes and performance only against business start-up winners. The training question was good. I agree with Lex's point on time off, but there is no doubt that it is SMEs' responsibility to train their people. Help is available through a number of grants from a variety of agencies. We need to consider the bottom line and the cost benefit to start-up companies. Small companies should be encouraged to tie in that cost benefit to their bottom line a little bit more. That is not being recognised just now.The individual employee credits that are being implemented go some way towards allowing the employees of these companies to approach the employer and say, \"I would like to be trained. I would like to get more personal development training.\" I think that is good. That could be built on. One other possible solution to alleviate the problem of SME training is to allocate some form of tax benefit to small companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 156321,
      "EditedText": "Lex, the sensitive and diplomatic way in which you articulated the thoughts of the Scottish Chambers of Commerce on a possible franchise model for the LECs suggests that there is recognition of an existing difficulty. I am intrigued—as, I am sure, are all committee members—by the innovative nature of that suggestion. Having listened to the three of you, I am slightly clearer about the role that you envisage will be taken by that franchise model. Where do you envisage that leaving existing providers such as enterprise trusts and local authorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 156325,
      "EditedText": "Is what you proposed not in effect the outsourcing of local economic development services by Scottish Enterprise to a series of consortia that may or may not be based on existing boundaries of local enterprise companies, enterprise trusts or local authorities, or a combination? Do you envisage a single contract and a single condition of tender for the delivery of services, or different contracts and different conditions of service for the delivery of different services? Do you envisage the incorporation only of existing provisions or of a mixture of different provisions from different providers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 156332,
      "EditedText": "There are a great many bodies around already."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 156334,
      "EditedText": "Forgive me if this is not a direct answer to your question, but I think that there is a need in Scotland for a champion of small business, who should, I believe, be appointed by the Scottish Executive. In that way, a lot of the issues that have been articulated this morning could be focused on and tackled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 156337,
      "EditedText": "Is that a yes?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 156340,
      "EditedText": "We see no crisis. But then, someone once came off an aircraft waving a piece of paper and saying that he had peace in his time. The chamber movement has grown by 15 per cent in the past four years. It is certainly not an organisation that perceives itself to be in any difficulty. The fact that we are locally based and dealing with our local MSPs in this Parliament is a helpful democratic link.David, I would not wish you to take what I was saying earlier as a fully-fledged approach. I hear your point, I understand Annabel's inference, and we agree that there is scope to examine that kind of territory. However, the chambers have clearly changed recently. Peter's chamber in Glasgow has been in existence for over 200 years. For a period, the chambers got into the state of being old men's clubs—as Annabel, Margo and others might recognise—with people sitting in leather armchairs smoking their cigars.There has been a change in the nature of the chambers of commerce. We believe that change will continue and develop. On this occasion, I will not spend a lot of time describing what we are about. I am confident that the chambers have a strong contribution to make to the kind of model that I described. I must underline the convener's point that the model is not fully fledged."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3546,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 484.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 156347,
      "EditedText": "I asked the clerks to prepare a draft of the work programme to give members a view of the likely duration of the inquiry, its component parts and how it would fit together. Last week, several of us discussed that informally.I want to make several points about the briefing note. First, it includes a breakdown of each of the phases of our work. I have just noticed that there is a mistake in the numbering of the case studies. We will carry out four case studies—two on business support and two on lifelong learning—to examine issues of best practice. Input from members about where that best practice may be sought is very welcome. We have invited written evidence and it is coming in on a fairly sustained basis.On page 4 of the briefing note there is a reference to the business in the chamber proposal. At our meeting a fortnight ago, I sensed concern that we were not meeting the people who were the users of the services. At the conveners group meeting, we discussed the proposals of the consultative steering group, which provide for resources to be available to the committee and the Parliament to engage a wider audience in its deliberative work. I am asking for members' approval to arrange a half-day exercise to take place in the chamber, involving 129 users of business support services. Those people would be invited to discuss the conclusions of the phase 1 inquiry. I invite every member of the committee, based on their local and constituency experience, to nominate five individuals to take part in that debate. We would also provide the opportunity for organisations of which we are not aware to gain access to the debate through a website or by contacting the clerks. The purpose is to go beyond the core of the parliamentary membership and to engage in dialogue with a wider community.The mapping exercise of the delivery of local economic development business support and vocational training services is under way. The Scottish Parliament information centre is doing a great deal of work, but that needs to be supplemented by external resources and we are seeking approval to do that. I have discussed with SPICe the proposal to link up with other providers, such as Scottish Enterprise, to help gather information. There is a lot of sense in trying to draw together that work. I have made it clear to SPICe that we want to maintain editorial control over the content of that material.We have also developed proposals to seek external opinion and direction for our inquiry. That is set out in the briefing note. I will go through the recommendations on page 6 so that we are very clear.The first recommendation asks for the committee's approval of the general methodology and schedule that is outlined in the note. The second recommendation is that the committee formally agree that the parts of the meetings that are used to formulate the interim conclusions or the draft final report should be held in private. I have to seek the formal agreement of the committee to do that. Once we have reached formal conclusions, they will be publicised. That is the third recommendation.The fourth recommendation is that, during phase 2 of the inquiry, we publish the written evidence that we have received. However, that evidence will be made available to members as soon as possible after the deadline of 18 November. We are asking the committee to support the business in the chamber proposal, which must seek authorisation and resources from other bodies: the Parliamentary Bureau and the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. We are seeking agreement for the research support and expert advice that is outlined in the paper. Finally, we seek the committee's approval of external bodies to undertake the research and expert advice.Are there any comments on that?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156350",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3546,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ID": 3546,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 156350,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments?I think that Allan and Duncan's points are accepted and we can proceed on that basis. The clerks will take steps to implement that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 3547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ID": 3547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 156352,
      "EditedText": "As the instrument is a negative one, will it become law unless the appropriate motion is moved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 3547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 156357,
      "EditedText": "The secondary statutory instrument that we must consider is the Thurso College (Change of Name) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SI 1999/126). Are there any points on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 3547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ID": 3547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 156360,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I also thank Colin Reeves and Gillian Thompson for their attendance. I hope that when we deal with other statutory instruments, we will make matters more taxing for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3548,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 156363,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair comment. While Fridays and Mondays are possibilities for meetings, we need to have a wee bit of warning. Being entirely selfish, convener, my parliamentary days are already packed to capacity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 156366,
      "EditedText": "Next week, 17 November, is not a runner. We investigated meeting on 1 December, but because 30 November is a non-parliamentary day, there is enormous congestion on the following day. That takes us to 15 December. Are we in recess by then? No.If I read the committee correctly, members would like to meet on one of the Wednesdays on which we are not already meeting. We will ask the clerks to arrange that for as soon as possible. We agree the remit of that inquiry with that alteration. The clerks will draw up a list of witnesses. If members want to input to that, they may."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 156367,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify a point about witnesses. As Allan Wilson will recall from the famous public meeting that we attended on Arran, one of the community's concerns was that we should take evidence from the oil distribution company. Is not that correct, Allan? We need to be sure that the list of witnesses includes such bodies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 156370,
      "EditedText": "The clerks will investigate that and provide us with some advice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 156371,
      "EditedText": "I am the former founding chairman of the Association of Scottish Community Councils, which has set up an organisation, with a base in Edinburgh, that regularly takes evidence on various issues from all 1,200 community councils around Scotland. It may be possible to elicit some response by circulating a letter through the association's local secretaries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 156375,
      "EditedText": "The semiconductor industry is a massive employer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 156377,
      "EditedText": "I attended a seminar at Napier University last week, at which I met Graham Hills, the former vice-chancellor of the University of Strathclyde. Having heard him speak, I thought that we should invite him to address the committee at some point, as what he has to say about lifelong learning as an integral part of economic development is in a different league from what we have heard so far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156380",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 156380,
      "EditedText": "Graham Hills wrote to me a couple of weeks ago and supplied me with a load of notes and comments. I will pass them to the clerk for circulation around the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156381",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
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      "ID": 121
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 156381,
      "EditedText": "There are many people from whom we will want to hear. We will certainly take note of Margo's point and see how that can be integrated into our work.Thank you for your co-operation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156382",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 13:02."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156112",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 10 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "ContributionID": 156112,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:04"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 156114,
      "EditedText": "We will hear from three groups of witnesses: business organisations, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the Scottish Chambers of Commerce. I invite members to tell me whether there are particular areas on which they will wish to concentrate in questioning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156118",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 156118,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pursue that line of questioning as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 156129,
      "EditedText": "We have to have a clear economic decision-making process. Policy-making powers should lie with the Scottish Executive and the Parliament. Scottish Enterprise and the industry department should design the implementation strategy and there should be a local economic delivery system. The problem at a local level is that there are too many agencies. Glasgow illustrates that well. We have the Glasgow Development Agency, Glasgow Opportunities, the main enterprise trust, and another eight local enterprise agencies: Glasgow North, Govan Initiative, Gorbals Initiative and so on. That causes confusion and a lack of consistency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 156131,
      "EditedText": "There has to be delivery in Glasgow North and Govan, but having competing agencies is a problem. Local partnerships are good, but they are part of the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 156133,
      "EditedText": "The Glasgow Development Agency has one person who deals with the smaller enterprise agencies. He has to negotiate contracts and set standards. However, we think that those agencies should be part of the Glasgow Development Agency. They do not all have to be separate agencies, with separate boards, separate chief executives and separate finance directors. We are adding to the bureaucracy every year. The Glasgow Development Agency should set the standards for their people to deliver locally. That should be the model throughout the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 156135,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the LECs have a small business policy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 156138,
      "EditedText": "If we are going to rationalise arrangements so that there is one service delivery agency—or one agency that ensures consistent service—which agency should that be, given that the LECs do not understand small business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 156141,
      "EditedText": "We want improvements to the system. I do not think that we want to change the current system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 156142,
      "EditedText": "If we do not have a single agency, what is the preferred unit of delivery?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156147",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 156147,
      "EditedText": "There are three broad areas into which every issue fits with which any small business must contend. First, they must deal with administration, which they are not bad at. Secondly, they must deal with sales and marketing. They are not bad at marketing their goods in existing markets, but they are poor at marketing new goods and services in new markets. Thirdly, small businesses must deal with the financial management of their organisation. On a scale of one to 10, most SMEs would score about minus four. Financial management is a primary need, so small businesses must get help from an expert. That is why they turn to their accountants, who are clearly the best placed to help.The plan to raise the audit threshold from £350,000 to more than £1 million is good news, because it will allow accountants to concentrate less on silly audits that are unnecessary for companies where the shareholders, employees and managers are the same people, and to spend more time on producing good management information. Small businesses turn to their accountants simply because there is a great need to do so. Small businesses will not waste their time phoning people if they do not have to. They will phone only when they need to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 156149,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the Federation of Small Businesses, CBI Scotland and the Forum of Private Business provide services to their members if they have particular problems. Therefore, the accountant, like us, can act as a signpost—he may also be a deliverer—but, in the main, he will not tend to put people in touch with a LEC. That is simply because, according to anecdotal evidence—this is not the view of Forum of Private Business members—most accountants do not value the role of the LECs, because they see them as generalists, not specific deliverers. Accountants tend to try to resolve more than just financial matters. If a business has a problem finding premises, the accountant will put the business in touch with a local chartered surveyor. As Matthew Farrow said, accountants tend to use other private deliverers to deliver a specific target."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 156153,
      "EditedText": "Could you quantify the time scale for that process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 156155,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other areas where there is a poor understanding of SMEs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 156156,
      "EditedText": "The decision-making process in small businesses is very different from that in large businesses. The LECs do not understand how small businesses operate—how they make decisions, how they break into new markets, how they move their businesses forward. It is a different way of thinking, which makes the issue more educational than functional."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156157",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 156157,
      "EditedText": "George's final question was about the agencies that should be slimmed out of the picture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 156158,
      "EditedText": "The federation wants a merger of the LECs' local economic development function, the local authorities and the area tourist boards, to create one strong body that deals with every part of the Scottish economy. At the moment, tourism is out of the economic development loop."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156162",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 156162,
      "EditedText": "The convener mentioned enterprise trusts, some of which are very good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 156164,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a list of the good and the bad with me. However, I can provide you with our view about which trusts and LECs are performing well. I am happy to put that information in our written submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156166",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matthew Farrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 156166,
      "EditedText": "This is not a big company v small company issue. Our bigger members have raised concerns about the enterprise network. The big utilities say that they should be more involved in economic development and strategy.Scottish Power, for example, feels that the system should involve it more. When large companies or trade associations try to contract across the system, they complain about the number of different bodies they have to deal with. It is not a big company v small company view. CBI Scotland's view is a little different from that of my colleagues because our membership is more mixed. We represent not only small firms, and we try to take a balanced view. Our smaller members tend to be sceptical—but are they always right? The small companies that interact with the LECs tend to be more positive. If economic development agencies intervene in local economies and they say that a certain strategy is right for a region or area, they will be working with some companies and not with others. The retail sector tends to be fairly negative, because Scottish Enterprise views retail as a displacement activity. Smaller companies in particular will always be unhappy with the system, but that does not always mean that the system is not working in the best way. If there is a lack of understanding, it is difficult for LECs, whose raison d'être is to do things to intervene and to be seen to be active. They often forget that economic growth comes from individual companies; individual entrepreneurs need three things: time to concentrate on the fundamentals of their business; money, more in terms of cash flow than in terms of grants; and stability in the regulatory environment. Those three things make up the sort of environment that should be created. LECs often feel that they ought to be doing things—the laptop brigade I was talking about earlier—which is where the lack of communications comes in: it is not because of some fundamental misunderstanding of what small businesses are about. I do not have data on the proportion of our members actively involved with LECs. We have not done a survey on that, and it would be hard to calculate. We would have to decide if we were talking about a company which had rung a LEC and got advice, as opposed to a company that was contracted to deliver training, for example. The inquiry should examine how local authorities and LECs interact, although I know that COSLA and Scottish Enterprise have tried to improve that interaction at a local level. The problem is that our members see LECs as being in the driving seat—they should be in the driving seat for economic development. Local authorities are wrapped up in many issues, including community issues and planning, that will have an impact on development. It is difficult to see how those matters may be easily resolved—that is something to consider. I notice that this committee's remit covers further education colleges and lifelong learning. It is worth taking them into consideration. We get fairly mixed views about FE colleges. They have big fixed costs and find it hard to adapt to changes in the labour market. I suspect that, with the university for industry and individual learning accounts coming on-stream over the next year or so, there may be a big win. There may, for once, be a chance to make reality out the rhetoric of lifelong learning. Our members say that it is all rhetoric at the moment, but there is a chance, over the next couple of years, to build the university for industry, ILAs and FE colleges together, and have a much more customer-driven learning system. That would be a big achievement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 156168,
      "EditedText": "George made a very helpful point about agencies. Could you address that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156172",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 156172,
      "EditedText": "Before Fergus continues, Annabel has asked me to make clear that we would welcome a copy of the survey to which Gerry Dowds referred and the one the FSB is publishing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 156180,
      "EditedText": "We heard from Gerry Dowds that a third of the CBI's members consult local enterprise companies on training issues, and Matthew mentioned bureaucracy and the different payments for modern apprenticeships. I want to pursue the matter of lifelong learning and skills development in SMEs. What is your opinion of the support given to SMEs with regard to work-based training? What bureaucracy surrounds it and does support vary from LEC to LEC?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 156185,
      "EditedText": "Small businesses overwhelmingly favour on-the-job training and modern apprenticeships are taking the same approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 156187,
      "EditedText": "I have no definitive data relating to that. As Matthew said, there is variation among further education colleges regarding how they work with LECs to provide training, which seems to be supply-led, rather than demand-led. That is a problem that we have with the training and education system. Colleges have come up with great schemes, but businesses do not require those schemes; they require specific skills to be taught for a task or role. Provision of training must be led by demand from businesses. That issue has not been addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 156189,
      "EditedText": "Does Mr Downie think that a university for industry will solve that problem? My understanding is that the university for industry concept should deal with that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156194",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 156194,
      "EditedText": "That is something that we can come back to."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156197",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 156197,
      "EditedText": "There is a lot of input from business organisations to the LEC network, whether through LEC board membership or through involvement in strategy groups.I am concerned about priorities. I will give you an example. The Scottish Executive has set up the Scottish manufacturing steering group and Charlie Woods—director of strategy at SE—is in that group of 26. The CBI and other more specific trade associations are also represented. The steering group has split into smaller groups to deal with issues such as the business environment and productivity and competitiveness and I believe that SE should be represented on all of those groups. SE already has its own manufacturing strategy in place, in a sense, so I wonder how seriously it will take the Scottish Executive's manufacturing strategy, which the minister is committed to.Others and I have had feedback from different levels that indicates that businesses do not feel that they share the Scottish Executive's priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4483629+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matthew Farrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 156198,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is a philosophical difference between the approaches of Scottish Enterprise and the Scottish Executive. I have not detected a fundamental disagreement, but I agree with John Downie's point about the manufacturing strategy. The Executive and ministers are under pressure to be seen to be doing things—they must roll out initiatives such as the manufacturing strategy irrespective of whether they fit with what SE does, so there is a problem in that.Small businesses who know how to work the system—not trade associations—tend to do better because they find it easier to find the right person to contact for grants. That encourages those companies to play a greater part. I do not think that the problems are fundamentally the fault of businesses for not coming forward with schemes. There are funded agencies in place that exist to develop the economy. Some of our farming members would say that their objection is that, traditionally, farmers have been seen as a separate entity—that there is special farming policy that has nothing to do with LECs. However, in some parts of the country, small farms are a key part of the economic infrastructure, a key skills pool, and a sector with which LECs could do a lot more work. I do not agree that it is the fault of businesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4483629+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 156209,
      "EditedText": "Generally, do you subscribe to the CBI's position, that there are benefits to SMEs from the overlapping of services at local level?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156214",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 156214,
      "EditedText": "I want to come back to one of my original questions. The committee is in the business of finding out where the network is working and where it is failing. Organisations have come along today and made some quite strong criticisms. I think that the committee must ask you to put down on paper the parts of the networks that are delivering, so that we can examine them as examples of best practice. You should also explain why you think they are delivering. Is it because of the structure, or because of the personnel—the quality of the people? I would also like you to highlight the areas where you think the structure is failing, and which organisations within the structure are failing, so that we can examine the reasons behind that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 156218,
      "EditedText": "Would grants come straight through that mechanism, and not go anywhere else?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156219",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
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      "EditedText": "No, it is a signpost. For example, if someone phones who needs a service from the local enterprise trust and the LEC, they are directed to that agency, and that agency deals with them. The business shop must assess the needs of the business first, and then direct it to the right agency. Assessing what the business needs is one of the key points. There is no point in putting someone through to a local enterprise trust or a LEC if they do not qualify for a grant. The person in the business shop should know that."
    },
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  },
  {
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor David Hamilton (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 156221,
      "EditedText": "To try to indicate the breadth of subject matter that the team represents, I will introduce myself and mention a number of matters in which I am involved. Although I am convener of the development services forum for COSLA, I am also convener of strategic services in Midlothian, and a member of the Scottish Council Development and Industry, Midlothian chamber of commerce and Midlothian enterprise trust. That is just to let you know that, although some of us are elected members, we have wide experience in several issues. I will let each member introduce himself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Cunningham (Renfrewshire Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 156222,
      "EditedText": "I am not an elected member. I am head of economic development at Renfrewshire Council. My career in economic development has spanned the Scottish Development Agency, a local enterprise company and—most recently—setting up an economic development function in the new unitary authority in Renfrewshire.To give some examples of my commitment to partnership, a commitment that is exemplified in other local authorities, I am a director of Paisley and District chamber of commerce. I sit on our new deal partnership and I am director of the West of Scotland Loan Fund, which lends money, in a benign way, to companies operating in the west of Scotland.I have some comments on best practice and more effective delivery, which I shall welcome the opportunity to make during questioning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Mervyn Rolfe (Dundee City Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 156223,
      "EditedText": "I am the deputy leader of Dundee City Council. I am also the convener of economic development in Dundee. I chair the Dundee Partnership. I have been in local government for 13 years, on Tayside Regional Council and Dundee City Council. I have been a member of Scottish Enterprise Tayside, which is our local enterprise company, for almost five years. I am a board member of Dundee business shop and a part-time university lecturer in economic development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Cunningham: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 156227,
      "EditedText": "I can give some examples of good practice that are emerging at local level. Whether they are best practice remains to be seen. Some members may be familiar with the work done by West Lothian Council, which has taken the lead in developing a response to e-commerce in that part of Scotland. It worked alongside the LEC on that. Most recently in Glasgow, in response to the best value regime, Glasgow City Council has decided to consider its economic development services jointly with Glasgow Development Agency. That is being approached as a joint initiative, to examine how to attain more effective delivery.Renfrewshire Council leads the west of Scotland trade development programme, which involves all 12 authorities in that area coming together under our leadership and direction to deliver trade development support to local companies across the west of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 156228,
      "EditedText": "I wish to probe a bit further on those points. For example, in Glasgow, you say that there is a voluntary coming together of the two bodies to consider how best to co-ordinate the delivery of services, which will have the effect of one person taking the lead on a particular service and someone else taking the lead on another. I recognise that the partnership structure works well and I understand that concept, but how well does it operate throughout the Scottish Enterprise network?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 156230,
      "EditedText": "I understand the strength of that model. Why do you not take the view that the local authority should withdraw from that process and tell the local enterprise company to take on the staff and do that work, while the local authority concentrates on the range of services that are provided primarily by local authorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Cunningham: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 156231,
      "EditedText": "It might be more appropriate for Councillors Hamilton and Rolfe to comment on that. There is concern about the democratic responsibility of local authorities, particularly in areas where the local enterprise company covers more than one unitary authority. Inevitably, there will be a push for local authorities to get a fair share of the resources that are spent in their area. To push control out as far as you suggested, convener, might cause problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 156234,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I think that you would find that in nearly all cases. It is partly a fairness issue, but it is also about redirecting resources and applying the strengths—on a united front—of individual local authorities.LECs are not just a mechanism of supporting local companies—they have a much wider remit on infrastructure. Local authorities and LECs often come together when there are major projects that need to be dealt with. The local authority and the LEC are the two biggest public sector organisations and, when public money is used, it is appropriate and prudent for elected members to have a say. That is the case in Lothian. However, as I indicated earlier, it differs from place to place, depending upon priorities. I suspect that there is a different way of working in Dundee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Rolfe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 156235,
      "EditedText": "In the Dundee area, our partnership arrangements, which have been in place for just under 20 years, are among the longest standing and are quite well bedded in. I know for a fact that that is not necessarily reflected in other areas of Scotland. You asked why local government is involved in local economic development, and why it does not just hand over the money and staff to the local enterprise companies. Businesses will continue to expect something in return from the local council, having paid their business rates. They do not just want their bins to be emptied; they want more assistance. Because they are paying business rates, they expect some support, and that is the experience of most elected members. We are approached not only by people with housing complaints, but by business people who say, \"What can you do for my business? I have just set up in this area and your council does not seem to be as helpful as I want it to be.\" We never manage to satisfy all the people all the time, as any politician will tell you. However, there is a genuine desire in local authorities to try to help local business.Economic development is not just about supporting businesses. There is a range of different aspects to economic development, including advice, finance, training and property. Different councils, to different extents, involve themselves in each of those areas, as do the local enterprise companies. Some LECs put more emphasis on one area and less on others. To take up David Hamilton's point, that emphasises what is needed in a particular area. The advantage that local government has over the other support agencies is that it provides a greater range of services and has a greater opportunity to interface. The committee is considering enterprise and lifelong learning. That is local government's stock in trade. One of the best ways to support business is to promote an enterprise culture, to borrow a rather hackneyed political phrase. None the less, we should do more of that in Scotland, where there is a low business birth rate. In some parts of Scotland, the rate is even lower than the Scottish average, which obviously is a mathematical certainty. In my own area, the business birth rate is very low. We need to tackle that issue in schools. The local authority is in a better position to do something about that than is an enterprise company which is new to such areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 156236,
      "EditedText": "I would like to hear more about local authorities' response to the problems outwith the cities, and about the Inverclyde initiative that you spoke about. There is a real problem, in that business people in such areas feel that Renfrewshire and Paisley are remote, and that they do not affect businesses in the Inverclyde area. Local authorities are responding to a demand from businesses that more local services be delivered jointly in the Inverclyde area, rather than in Paisley or anywhere else. Is that the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 156238,
      "EditedText": "I would hate you to think that I was a narrow nationalist, David, but I am going to ask you about Lothian. First, just to dispose of something, does West Lothian—which is the furthest Lothian authority from the centre of Edinburgh—no longer have a desire for a separate LEC?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 156240,
      "EditedText": "That is the first issue. The second concerns the role of the local authorities, as we are inquiring into the overlap that everyone seems to agree exists. I think that it is called blue-sky thinking, but I would turn it on its head and ask whether there is anything that Lothian and Edinburgh Enterprise Limited does that Midlothian—in conjunction with the strategic planning authority that covers the whole LEEL area—could not do?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Rolfe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 156245,
      "EditedText": "That is essentially correct. However, the business shop, not the LEC, administers the money. The LECs and the local authorities get a substantial amount of their funding from the Scottish Executive. They are both answerable for that—if, in the Government's view, the money is not spent properly, their budgets are cut. There is sometimes a bit of a beauty contest in relation to how well LECs and local authorities are doing, which of them attracted inward investors and which helped a company to stave off redundancies. That relates to the question about duplication. If one reads the local newspapers anywhere in Scotland, one will find a push-and-pull situation between the LEC and the local authority about which one does most for the local economy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 156246,
      "EditedText": "I want to be clear about Councillor Rolfe's response. I asked about perceived evidence of duplication and you have given me the sources of grants as one example. Is that the only area in which there is duplication?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156253",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Cunningham: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 156253,
      "EditedText": "The rationale behind delivering the trade development programme on a west-of-Scotland basis is that the programme takes companies to a range of sectoral-based exhibitions and trade missions. There are economies of scale in offering, for example, a stand at an electronics exhibition in Munich to companies throughout the west of Scotland, rather than offering a Renfrewshire stand, an Inverclyde stand and so on. It is an example of good practice to do that sort of thing collectively, and the programme has gone down well with local businesses. In some cases, we have extended our remit to cover companies in other parts of Scotland. I took a group of companies to an exhibition in Munich last year, including companies from Tayside—they came with us because they were aware that we organised that sort of package."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 156255,
      "EditedText": "Funding is discretionary, as Tim Stone said, so any variance from one authority to another may be perceived as a major gap. People see that money is not being invested in their area, but they have to find the money no matter how hard things are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 156257,
      "EditedText": "I believe that councils have a duty not just to be a service organisation to the population but to initiate various moves. If companies in the private sector demand a higher standard in education, it falls to us to achieve that. There is an invariable link between industry and local authorities. Outside the city areas, there is invariably a perception that money is not being invested in the same way as it is being invested in the central belt or in the cities. Local authorities must determine how important finance is and make money available to acquire land, allowing the LECs to come in again. Working in partnership, we can do things that the LECs perhaps cannot do. There are regulations that apply to LECs but not to local authorities, and vice versa. We are restricted in certain areas and they are not. There are situations in which they can find money when we cannot, because there are fewer restrictions on them. There are certain issues that have to be dealt with through the LECs—they deal with commercially sensitive cases that our council cannot deal with. There are inevitably disagreements—it is right that there should be disagreements when we are dealing with the public purse. Earlier, somebody mentioned the length of time that it can take to process things. In many ways it is right that that is the case. It might be frustrating, but the money is from the public purse. We know what happens if one makes a bad investment—there is a major problem.There is a much bigger disagreement about the amount of money that the LECs get from Scottish Enterprise. A great deal of the money that comes from the centre—the system is perceptibly much more centralised than it was a few years ago—is ring-fenced, so the LECs have less money. The ability of LECs to be innovative is limited because the money is being invested in major projects or in two-year or three-year programmes. That creates friction—much more between local authorities and Scottish Enterprise than between local authorities and LECs. That is the argument of local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 156262,
      "EditedText": "I am a part-time councillor and an FSB member. The reason for the disagreement between COSLA and the LECs was transparent: they differed on how they wanted to go forward. Information and statistics could be better than they are at present. Much of our work would be far easier if we had an information bank in which we could place information from the Scottish Executive, local authorities and industry. That could be updated daily and would assist us a great deal.There was a great deal of discomfort concerning micro-industries and SMEs. Jim Cunningham highlighted the main point: if a company is disappointed and does not receive the money that it wants, that creates friction. We have to be selective about investment, but companies find it hard to understand why millions of pounds are thrown at foreign companies to set themselves up in Scotland when local companies that are trying to build up their businesses do not get the same support. That perspective is not unique to businesses—many people see millions of pounds being spent in certain areas but failing to produce the desired result."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Rolfe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 156265,
      "EditedText": "They need to be seen in the context of a number of other factors. I, too, listened to the previous presentations, in which the speakers talked about retail and service industries not getting much help. One of the reasons for that is displacement: there are only so many windows to be cleaned and so many people who want haircuts in a particular area. In a range of services, the creation of a new business reduces the amount of custom that is available to a similar business down the road. That has to be understood, although it is frustrating to be on the wrong end of that equation.The previous speakers also identified types of assistance offered by LECs and others that had proved successful. They found that the advice services were not very supportive, but it is only human nature for people to think that they have developed their businesses by themselves, without much contribution from others. We are not arguing that the previous speakers were wrong, but what they said needs to be seen in the context of other factors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 156267,
      "EditedText": "I will pick up some of those questions and pass on the rest to others. Does your first question refer to the number of staff whom councils employ on economic development activity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 156268,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 156271,
      "EditedText": "It is not the case in all councils, but it is the case in most."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 156272,
      "EditedText": "Does that structure deal with Mr Johnston's point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 156275,
      "EditedText": "As a former councillor, I have been involved in economic development, so I know where you are coming from and have some sympathy with the issues that you face. In your evidence, you said that duplication occurs because of discretionary money. You said that you have been involved in beauty contests in running your own signposting services and that you now have democratic input at board level. Why, rather than coming to the table as a competitor, do you not approach partnership on the basis of your traditional skills and responsibilities? What is the local authority view on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 156276,
      "EditedText": "What do you mean by our coming to the table as a competitor?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 156277,
      "EditedText": "You have admitted that there are areas where you compete and overlap."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 156282,
      "EditedText": "We have also said that examples have developed in the years since unitary authorities came into operation and that the relationship with LECs has improved dramatically. Through organisations such as Midlothian enterprise trust, the local authority and LECs have established business shops. That is one approach by which we can arrive at a double-funded position where the councils have representation in the business shops and can release funds through the LECs or the business shops. That is not duplication; it is an example of our coming together to work harmoniously. We are overcoming our difficulties and there is a lot less duplication than there used to be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Rolfe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 156285,
      "EditedText": "We would argue that delivery is on the basis of partnership and augmentation rather than competition."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 156287,
      "EditedText": "In most cases, the local authorities that I have experience of are increasingly involved in economic development and tying it to the educational system. Local authorities have a direct input into further education colleges. Informal connections are being made all the time between business and local government. That relationship is developing all the time, but there is still a lot to be done.Another aspect that I should mention is strategic development. The establishment of the chamber of commerce in Midlothian is an example of the local authority being active—not just responsive—in building an infrastructure. The local authority developed a strategy based on the need to develop an infrastructure outwith the cities to allow industry to move out of congested areas."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156288",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Rolfe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 156288,
      "EditedText": "Most local authorities have a strategic plan for economic development, which is open for discussion and has been formulated in the arena of public consultation.Increasingly, members of local authorities are able to have a dialogue with the local business community. My council is a member of the local chamber of commerce and the officers of our development department and the councillors regularly go out to meet business people. A genuine dialogue is developing between councils and local companies, mostly on economic development, but also on wider issues. That will be apparent in the responses that you receive from councils."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Cunningham: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 156289,
      "EditedText": "Renfrewshire Council has established the Renfrewshire economic forum, which brings together the council, the LEC and the chamber of commerce. It helps us to understand the business perspective on the big-picture issues.At a local level, we receive regular feedback from our customers on the services we offer. We run a lot of joint networking evenings with the chamber of commerce to hear the business perspective on what we are doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 156295,
      "EditedText": "Ours is a broad-based role. The aim of the chambers is to ensure that the business voice is heard in the areas that they cover. Ours is a bottom-up organisation that is situated in towns and cities throughout Scotland. Our aim is to ensure that the business community comes together and forms a view on matters that are of interest to it. In the main that is the economy and the delivery of services. We consider the need to get across the business community's view through lobbying, which may be a bad word in these chambers.More generally, the chambers examine the services that are needed by their members and seek where possible either to provide them themselves or to ensure that they are available for members to draw upon. In the broad Scottish economic context we also look at the development of export services and provide advice to our members on exporting. We seek also to provide advice on good places for inward investment. Our role is more broadly based than just the provision of services. The majority of our small chambers do not provide services. They look to the bigger chambers to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 156296,
      "EditedText": "One of the points that has occupied the committee's attention a great deal, and which will do so when we address the next item on the agenda once your evidence is complete, is how we gather evidence for our inquiry into the congestion and optimum delivery of services. How do we gather that information from those whom we would term real people? Having listened to this morning's evidence, can you inform us of the attitudes of mainstream companies with regard to services, and other issues that you think we should hear about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 156298,
      "EditedText": "Please do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 156302,
      "EditedText": "We have been examining issues such as duplication, value for money and whether the current structure delivers. Although it seems that a plethora of organisations is delivering, a plethora of organisations is also representing business interests. This morning, we have heard a range of opinions from yourselves to representatives from the small business sector who were giving evidence earlier.I was interested in your comment that some LECs were performing very well, that there was a middle range and that some at the bottom were not performing well at all. We are trying to identify whether the structure is causing the differences between the LECs that are delivering to your members and those that are not or whether it is the personnel. If the structure is to blame, can you highlight the differences between the good and bad LECs? On the other hand, if it is the personnel, why has the enterprise network not resolved the problem at a strategic level?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 156303,
      "EditedText": "Searching for the perfect economic development model is like the search for the holy grail. One solution does not fit all. The general position is that there is confusion, particularly for those who are starting up in business, about where to go for advice and, having gone there, what support mechanisms are available. That basic problem is endemic. I have listened to the discussion about business shops—we are partners in a number of them—but business shops are only signposting organisations; they are not there to give grants, as Margo said earlier. Their job is to signpost the business to some other place of help. We have given some thought to the current structure. Matthew Farrow asked whether it has grown organically and whether it is time for change. My advice is, \"If it ain't broke, don't fix it.\" From our point of view, it seems that there could be a case for examining the structure again. That is not the universal view of Scottish chambers of commerce. The majority view is that we ought perhaps to end the independence of the local enterprise company, keep the local board, keep the local focus, keep the local solution to the local problem, re-examine the structure, but keep the strategic focus that comes from Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise. If local authorities are working, their strategic focus ought to be on economic development, not on planning or resources. There could be a re-examination of the independent status of local enterprise companies. If a review were to conclude that they should no longer be independent, that would at least save some money on the financial, personnel and common service functions, which could be ploughed into economic development. The arguments against that are that local input could be reduced and, as one would expect, we are keen on local business leadership for those bodies.Coming to some of the other issues that were mentioned—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 156310,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to ask a question, too. Are you suggesting that local enterprise companies should have their company limited by guarantee status removed, but that a local advisory board should be retained?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 156312,
      "EditedText": "Would the prudential authority and requirements of the local enterprise company therefore be transferred to Scottish Enterprise nationally? Scottish Enterprise is not really part of the focus of our inquiry in terms of its national presence as an economic development agency, but the setting of local priorities would be the function of a local advisory board working with local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 156316,
      "EditedText": "To echo Fergus Ewing's maxim, it is nice to hear solutions rather than problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 156324,
      "EditedText": "It could be. However, according to the model that I would prefer, which is not necessarily the model that will emerge, the enterprise trusts and the chambers would be part of that consortium in the first place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 156326,
      "EditedText": "That question addresses two issues. First, there is the issue of boundaries, which the committee may want to consider. However, as boundaries exist, we envisage there being one contract within that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 156330,
      "EditedText": "Yes. But Annabel was right—I was sensitive in the way that I approached that. I want to make it clear that this is not a full-blown or fully thought through idea; but I was stunned to hear the nature of the discussion, because it was exactly the thing that we were wrestling with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 156338,
      "EditedText": "No, no. The answer is not absolute. Bigger businesses have fewer problems with workplace training because of the economy of scale that operates. Medium businesses have more difficulties, and smaller businesses have huge difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 156339,
      "EditedText": "I am fascinated by the model that Lex has just extolled. My first reaction was a bit like Annabel's: \"Why is he stopping here?\" You seem to have taken on board the need for a single point of entry in the signalling process. You then go on to say that there will be a single contract. I am concerned as to how some of the organisations can supply the whole package on a tender basis, so to speak. I think that it would be better to look at the different facets of developmental support: mentoring, analysis, accountancy services and so forth. I accept that you envisage there being an outside standard body.The chambers evolved over the years because people could not afford support individually but found that, collectively, they could. Others found that their industries, because they were large, became sector driven and so needed to have a champion. I do not think that you have gone all the way down the line yet, though I hope that you get there eventually, but where do the chambers see themselves when they look at where they have come from? This must be a crisis point for you."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156341",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Liz Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 156341,
      "EditedText": "I will add to what Lex has said.It was mentioned earlier that it was necessary for the business community to have a greater input into the structure of Scotland's economy. I will give an example from Renfrewshire. I live in Inverclyde but work in Paisley and have worked across Scotland as well. We had four business-led organisations operating across Renfrewshire. There was a local authority network, an enterprise trust and Paisley chamber of commerce—I do not smoke cigars, Lex. We realised that we had a fragmented approach to a demand-led product. What did we need as business people and creators of wealth in the area to grow and develop? The business community in our area decided, some three or four years ago, on the need to come together. First, we had to put our business voice and our business view across coherently. Secondly, we had to begin to work with economic development agencies such as councils and LECs.Across Scotland, chambers and the business community have a strong desire to sit down with the committee and begin to drive the agenda for the Scottish economy. That desire is there already. We have a wonderful opportunity through Lex's model—which must be thought through but is a start—to bring together the expertise of all the agencies, rather than to continue to compete at grass-roots level in the delivery of many services that are badly needed across Scotland. This is an opportunity to take that model and work it through. In the chambers of commerce, we have got our act together over the past five years. There is still quite a way to go, but we can develop as a coherent group working at a local level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 156342,
      "EditedText": "What does the consortia model bring that the partnership model cannot provide?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 156343,
      "EditedText": "Coherence and consistency. That is the problem that the committee has been addressing. Some members have described it as overlap and duplication, but it is coherence and consistency.The mapping that I gave you of the view of local enterprise companies is what lies at the bottom of this. From the Scottish Executive down, including Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise, we would be setting the specific goals and the strategic framework. The quality and outputs would be defined and would have to be met by those organisations. There would be somebody to answer for the kind of complaints that we have heard in the chamber this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 156344,
      "EditedText": "I close this part of the evidence. I thank you for attending today and for bringing positive proposals to the committee. I encourage the chambers to further develop those suggestions and submit them. The deadline is 18 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 156346,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly the point that I was going to make. We are more interested in getting the ideas than getting them in a prescribed time scale. We, as a committee, want to add some value to the debate about the delivery of cohesive and consistent services within Scotland. That is the purpose of this inquiry.Our next agenda item will tackle some of the issues that Liz has raised about dialogue with the business community. I am required to close the meeting by 1 o'clock, so we will make some progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3546,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ID": 3546,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 156349,
      "EditedText": "I am quite happy to go along with what is listed. I suggest that the Scottish Trades Union Congress, as a general organisation for people who are involved in workplace training, should be involved, perhaps in the hearing for lifelong learning consumers on 24 November. In addition, the STUC should possibly be involved in our consideration of case studies on 26 January. The STUC may be of assistance with problems of best practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 3547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ID": 3547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 156354,
      "EditedText": "The practice is that the instrument is notified to the committee. We must give any objections to the contents of the regulations before 29 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 3547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ID": 3547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 156355,
      "EditedText": "I share the concerns raised by the Subordinate Legislation Committee. If we are being asked to follow a model that has been pursued south of the border, the sooner we are made aware of that the better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 156361,
      "EditedText": "We will now consider two future inquiries by the committee. The first is an inquiry into differential petrol pricing. The clerks have prepared a draft remit. I seek the committee's agreement to the proposal. I have been reluctant to consider these issues during any of our scheduled meetings. If we want to go down this route, we will need to find appropriate dates. The clerks had suggested the morning of 3 December, but having talked to a number of people, I have not found that date to be suitable. I open up the discussion on the remit of the inquiry and seek suggestions for other dates for the clerks to investigate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C156365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 156365,
      "EditedText": "The committee is meeting only once a fortnight. A considerable number of committees are meeting every week. I would think that it might be possible to find a Wednesday, so that at least we are meeting within the parliamentary week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 156372,
      "EditedText": "I thank members for those suggestions. The clerks will take that forward and bring proposals to us for our consideration.Duncan McNeil raised the issue of the announcements made by National Semiconductor at Greenock and proposed an inquiry. We have received a letter from the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning which has been circulated to members. We can take the issue forward by hearing what National Semiconductor has to say, perhaps at the end of one of the meetings that is already scheduled. We can then decide whether we want to take any further steps and examine the issues that are raised in more detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 156374,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that we will do further work on that subject and that we will put together a list of witnesses at a later date?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 156376,
      "EditedText": "Exactly.We do not have an agenda item for any other competent business, but I know that Margo Macdonald has something to tell the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 156378,
      "EditedText": "Who is he?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 156379,
      "EditedText": "His name is Graham Hills. He is now associated with the University of the Highlands and Islands. Everything that he says pulls the issue together. He would be an excellent person for us to talk to at some point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C156171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 156171,
      "EditedText": "I am one of those real people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C156176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 156176,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful.We have had fairly specific proposals from the other two business organisations about how they think the enterprise network should be reformed to make it more effective. In your opening remarks, you expressed criticisms about duplication, but we have not heard any specific proposals from the CBI. This is your opportunity to provide specific proposals. I suggest that you take the advice that Mrs Thatcher used to give to her advisers: \"Don't bring me problems; bring me solutions.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 10 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3544,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John Swinney): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 156113,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I welcome members to the seventh meeting of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. We go between extremes in our accommodation—either we have to sit remarkably close to each other or remarkably far away from each other. Once the meeting is concluded and the official report is safely away, you can all tell the clerk how you feel about meeting in the chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 156115,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask witnesses about their perception of overlap in the provision of services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 156119,
      "EditedText": "As ever, I am interested in best practice and benchmarking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 156121,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the work of the chambers and in the issue of overlap."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie (Federation of Small Businesses): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 156123,
      "EditedText": "I am the parliamentary officer for the Federation of Small Businesses. We represent 13,500 small businesses in Scotland, from all sectors: manufacturing, retail, service, and professional services. The federation's views on Scottish Enterprise are reasonably well known. We do not believe that it is providing consistent delivery of performance for small businesses. I am sure that the enterprise agencies have all told you how good a job they do, and that their customer satisfaction ratings are at 80 per cent. Frankly, I do not believe that. Their performance is not developing the Scottish economy.Tomorrow the federation will release a survey, part of which will deal with the enterprise network. Almost half—48 per cent—of the members whom we surveyed said that the enterprise network has no effect on the development of their businesses. The survey will form part of our written submission to the committee. The feeling is that there is confusion and duplication throughout the network, and that the enterprise network needs to be radically streamlined.Our other big concern is that Scottish Enterprise and the Scottish Executive are, at times, working in two separate areas. We are concerned about the priorities of the Executive in relation to those of Scottish Enterprise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds (Forum of Private Business): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 156125,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. It is good to be here. The Forum of Private Business in Scotland has 2,229 members as of last Friday, who represent small and medium companies. I stress that it is the Forum of Private Business, not the forum of small business. The information that I present today by way of answers to questions will be based on the results of member surveys, which we conduct on a regular basis. We are a membership-based and survey-based organisation. We visit our members' premises every year to conduct a comprehensive survey. We also conduct postal surveys on specific sectoral issues and on generic business issues.There are five or six issues that I would encourage the committee to consider in addition to those issues that members have identified.First, as Matthew and John said, there is a range of organisations that interface with SMEs. We encourage the committee to examine those that provide specific information, such as the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service, the Health and Safety Executive and the Contributions Agency, which target information for SMEs better than other agencies. Other organisations, such as the LECs and chambers of commerce, attempt to answer all questions on all subjects, which, with the greatest of respect, is a very big challenge. The one adviser that SMEs use most often, however, is their accountant. SMEs use their accountants ten times more than they use all the other organisations put together and we should remember that when we talk about overlap. SMEs trust their accountants.The quality of information that people present relates directly to the usage of that advice. If the committee is interested, I can supply quotes from people talking about the quality of the various services in Scotland. It is easy to be overly critical of the LECs. The problem is that LECs do not understand how SMEs operate. They attempt to impose big business practices on small firms. As a result of that, SMEs do not use them as much as they should."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 156128,
      "EditedText": "Thanks for those comments.The three representatives told us that there is congestion in the delivery mechanisms but that the mechanisms are getting better. The committee is interested in considering the solutions to the problems of congestion, overlap and duplication. What do you think the solutions are and what areas should the committee tackle?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 156136,
      "EditedText": "Do the myriad organisations in Glasgow that you described understand small business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 156137,
      "EditedText": "Some do, some do not. Some perform better than others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 156139,
      "EditedText": "As Matthew said, we have a fairly stable structure, but it needs to be improved. We are not going to replace the whole structure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 156140,
      "EditedText": "Who is best placed to deliver that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matthew Farrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 156145,
      "EditedText": "I was hoping that the committee's inquiry would give us an answer to that.On the point about rationalising the system—it does not make sense to have a multiplicity of bodies—we should recognise that the bodies have grown up for historical reasons. There is always a temptation to consider the system on paper and think that the strategy cannot be delivered through all those different bodies. There are two problems. If there are many competing bodies, it is hard to get across market messages. As Gerry was saying, although we want to tell SMEs that there is one helpline and one point of contact, the fact that there are several different bodies will make that very difficult.The other problem that occurs when there are different bodies using public funds going through different routes is one of order requirements. I have talked to companies and trade associations that deal with the economic development bodies and the LEC network and they say that the situation is awful. For example, they try to contract four modern apprenticeships across Scotland and they have to have different contracts for every LEC, which involves a lot of auditing. It is not enough to say that it is wrong to have lots of different bodies and to reduce it to one body. One has to be able to show that one can get around the problems of sending out a clear market message to the SME sector.I would not be so harsh in my criticisms of the LECs. No economic development agency will be seen by SMEs as understanding their needs. That is a fact of life. I find that most of our very small members are antagonistic. It is a cultural difference. I was talking to a trade association member about that and he said that the problem was that his members see such agencies as the laptop brigade. They come along with some analysis. I have had fairly good reports of LEC staff from companies that work with them. LECs are as well placed as they can be to understand SMEs. Every SME and every situation is different. Gerry is right to say that part of the answer is to leverage in private sector expertise.The final point is that we are reaching the end of the organic system. We must recognise that there needs to be a balance between central control and local delivery. If one goes too far towards centralisation, it is hard to engage local businesses on LEC boards, for example, because they feel that they cannot do anything—there is no discretion. If one goes the other way and there is too much local autonomy, there is a lot of variability. It is impossible not to have variability in a system with different bodies. There is a bit further to go, but there is a risk in fundamental change."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 156146,
      "EditedText": "I want to follow up on what Gerry Dowds said about the fact that his members most commonly resort to their chartered accountants. Can you expand on that? Do you know how the CAs interface with the existing system? Presumably they are the conduit through which the client gets help."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156150",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 156150,
      "EditedText": "We have two perspectives: that of the big companies, represented by the CBI, whose witness seems to think that, in general, businesses' engagement with the LECs is not too bad; and that of the small business sector, represented by the Federation of Small Businesses, which says that there needs to be a radical overhaul because there is confusion and duplication and, as Gerry says, the local enterprise network does not understand small businesses. I would like to explore that in more detail. First, how many businesses engage regularly with the enterprise network each year? Scottish Enterprise has told us that each year it helps 20 per cent of business start-ups. The figure was lower in the Highlands and Islands; the local enterprise company there says it helps around 10 per cent of business start-ups, although, if I remember correctly, there was confusion about the figure. Secondly, saying LECs do not understand small businesses and their needs is a sweeping statement. Can you define what they do not understand? Where are they failing?Thirdly, do you have examples of agencies that need to be slimmed down and amalgamated? Which agencies that understand small businesses and deliver a valuable service should the committee examine? Where is the best practice?I want you to explore those three or four easy questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 156165,
      "EditedText": "I will put George's three questions to Matthew and Gerry for brief answers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 156167,
      "EditedText": "I will go straight to our most recent quarterly survey on the use of LECs for business support. Twenty-two per cent of our membership have used LECs in the last year; 30 per cent used them more than a year ago; and 48 per cent have never used them. We did a similar survey in 1995. There was a 38 per cent usage. That has risen to 52 per cent overall among our membership over a four-year period. When we asked about \"Reasons for LEC use\" we got some quite interesting answers. Thirty-one per cent said, \"Training assistance\"; 16 per cent said, \"employment assistance\"; 12 per cent said, \"Start Up\"; 9 per cent said, \"Grants\"; 9 per cent said, \"Quality Standards\". That deals with a small part of the 33 issues that I mentioned earlier. Notice that nobody goes to LECs for sales and marketing advice; nobody goes to them for financial advice; nobody goes to them for advice on how to manage and develop their business—fascinating. The fourth question was:\"Reason for Non LEC use\".Fifty-seven per cent replied:\"not relevant to their business\".That reply came mainly from service and retail. As members know, anecdotal evidence says that people in the service or retail sectors tend not to get help from a LEC.Twenty-one per cent of respondents said that they had \"No perceived reason for using LEC services\".I would say that that is an awareness issue. Seventeen per cent said that they had \"No knowledge\\information on what LEC does\", and 9 per cent said that LECS were \"Slow + bureaucratic\". That gives a flavour of the survey.What do LECs not understand? That is a wonderful question, because everything hinges on it: if we cannot identify what LECs do not understand, we cannot throw rocks at them.The first thing they do not understand is that business owners make decisions not on the basis of the type of business they are, but depending on the stage of growth they are at. If growth is static, they will not take on new employees unless they are encouraged to do so. There is a tendency to think that because someone is a retailer, they will want a certain thing.Secondly, there are three different styles of SME owners. Only a small fraction of business owners are entrepreneurs, but some LECs think they all are. There are also business owners who are in business to make profits, and people with an employee mentality who happen to run a business, which they may have inherited from their father, got by default or bought with redundancy payments.The third thing that the LECs need to understand is that business owners have different styles. Some of them delegate a lot, but some do not delegate at all and are very autocratic. Business owners manage their businesses in four or five different ways.On countless occasions, I have heard a LEC tell business owners to go on a Dun & Bradstreet training course to understand credit management, when they do not have a list of aged debtors or creditors. Businesses need better information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 156170,
      "EditedText": "We would welcome any survey information on business attitudes towards these services. We will come on to that later, but we want to get feedback from real people who are the recipients and users of the services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Matthew Farrow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 156175,
      "EditedText": "I will comment briefly now and will be happy to follow up in writing. We have members that join the CBI direct and members that join trade associations that join the CBI. We calculate, according to figures that are a couple of years old now, that about 26,000 companies are members of those organisations. Larger companies tend to join direct, and smaller, growing SMEs tend to join trade associations that are members of the CBI. I do not have a detailed breakdown, because not all the trade associations are able to give us membership figures on a regular basis. Of the 26,000 companies that are members of trade associations, I estimate that about 24,000 are firms with fewer than 50 employees, and the rest are larger companies. I can certainly follow up your question in writing with more detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 156181,
      "EditedText": "Gerry, can you keep your answer brief. I need to wrap up this part of the session in 10 minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 156182,
      "EditedText": "Although I cannot answer the second part of the question as I do not have any data on the attitudinal and qualitative aspects of training, I can give you information on how SMEs deliver training into their businesses. We have asked our members about the principal method of training. In Scotland, 41 per cent of our members receive exclusively on-the-job training, which compares with a UK figure of 57 per cent. The Scottish figure for on-the-job training supported by an external course is 58 per cent, compared with 43 per cent in the UK. That shows that Scotland is more committed than England to training within SMEs.We have asked what external training sources were used. At 32 per cent, trade schemes come first in Scotland, followed by day release schemes and modern apprenticeships at 26 per cent each and LEC courses at 21 per cent. Forty-seven per cent of our members claimed to have a defined training policy, compared with a UK figure of 36 per cent. There is an impression that people are trying to come to terms with their training needs.Furthermore, we asked about the main function of training. In Scotland, 75 per cent of members said that training's main function was to develop special skills, compared with 63 per cent in the UK, which reflects much of what is happening in enterprise in Scotland. Twenty-three per cent said that the main function was to develop general skills, compared with a UK figure of 31 per cent; and 2 per cent said that the main function was personal development, compared with 5 per cent in the UK.In summary, SMEs in Scotland are committed to training, but I cannot provide qualitative and attitudinal data about service delivery."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 156186,
      "EditedText": "Do LECs provide good support for work-based training? How variable is such support?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 156188,
      "EditedText": "So, there is a question about demand-led training."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 156190,
      "EditedText": "As Matthew said, it is too early to say. We hope that that will be the case. We are glad to see that Frank Pignatelli—who has a good private and public sector background—is to be chief executive of the university because he recognises the requirements of the private sector."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 156191,
      "EditedText": "How do you see the university for industry working?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 156192,
      "EditedText": "That would take a long time to answer—I do not think that I could do that in a couple of sentences."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 156195,
      "EditedText": "We are working to ensure that we have a small business perspective so that the gap that George mentioned is filled. We are also working to ensure that training provision is led by demand."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 156196,
      "EditedText": "John, in your preamble you said that SE and the industry department are working in different directions. Do Gerry Dowds and Matthew Farrow follow that view?A pattern is emerging in the evidence that we have heard—a pattern that suggests that LECs are reactive rather than proactive organisations. Have companies a duty to suggest schemes to the LECs and to try to secure funding for the schemes? I ask that particularly in relation to training. When I visited a fairly large employer in Fife the other day, I asked how it interfaced with Fife Enterprise. Its response was that, at the moment, it does not, because it has not suggested any schemes to Fife Enterprise. Should we be looking at industry and commerce rather than blaming LECs for all the problems? Are people engaging with LECs in the correct fashion?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156199",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 156199,
      "EditedText": "That is fundamental to securing long-term growth in the Scottish economy through SMEs. A major piece of the jigsaw is missing. It cannot be right that you rely on us for data on SMEs' attitudes to how others interface with them. We collect data because our members pay us to do that. A proper research institute is needed in Scotland to examine what is happening with SMEs. It should be based in a Scottish university. We, as membership organisations, should be duty bound to help to ensure that businesses' attitudes to the way in which they are affected by Government policy are accessed.We know that 70 per cent of SMEs in Scotland are static at the moment. There is no point to trying to find new employees for businesses if those businesses are not encouraged to grow. One has to ask people why they do not want their businesses to grow—we know that 80 per cent of SMEs want to grow, but there are constraints. Instead of using anecdotal information, or—dare I say—even using the Federation of Small Businesses, the CBI, or the Forum of Private Business, we have to make sure that we know exactly what the problems are. We will not produce solutions unless we can jump up and down on that understanding.Businesses have a duty to ask for schemes to help their businesses. However, we know that 85 per cent to 90 per cent of the needs of small and medium businesses are readily understood. Therefore, it should not be beyond us to construct delivery mechanisms and content that match what they need. Most SMEs need a lot. They must be given a little of what they want, and a lot of what they need. It is just a matter of using the research to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4483629+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 156201,
      "EditedText": "I thought that we already had such a network in the business shops."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4483629+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 156202,
      "EditedText": "Are you satisfied that that network does everything?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4483629+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 156207,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the identification of best practice and its replication where applicable. We seem to be getting to the nub of the matter, which is delivery mechanisms. I mean no disrespect to John Downie or Matthew Farrow, but the arguments with regard to your organisations' perspectives have been well played out. Gerry Dowds has introduced another element into the discussion, which it would be interesting to explore further. A diverse range of business advice is available on such subjects as the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service, Customs and Excise and accountancy. We have not heard open evidence on that, but we have received submissions.That introduces an important element to the argument. Is it your argument that there need not be contraction or rationalisation, but that there should be better delineation among agencies and their areas of expertise? Should there be better signposting towards such agencies, to direct consumers towards service providers? Is there a single delivery mechanism that might deliver that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4483629+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 156210,
      "EditedText": "If somebody asked me, \"How would I be reimbursed for statutory sick pay?\" I would not contact a LEC."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4483629+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 156212,
      "EditedText": "There are two issues. Is there adequate signposting of services, so that individuals know whom to contact? Once the services are signposted, are there too many places that they can be directed to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 156215,
      "EditedText": "Contributions and written submissions are welcome, and we look forward to receiving them."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C156216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 156216,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask again about prototypes. Let us go back to Glasgow. There should be one business shop and one telephone number. The person who answers it should be able to direct SMEs to the various delivery agencies. But who gives out the money? Is it the various delivery agencies, or is it the organisation represented by the business shop—which is, presumably, the LEC?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 156217,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have to keep a Scottish business shop network under the control of Scottish Enterprise. We—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 156225,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. You are all welcome to the committee.I will start the questioning. You were here for our earlier session with the business panel. You will understand the line of questioning that members took in relation to identifying best practice in the delivery of services. That lies at the core of the remit of our inquiry. Will you comment on the way in which local authorities have dealt with the arrival of LECs in economic development activity and business support activity at local level? How successfully has that been dealt with, and where does the best practice lie for us to examine as a committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 156232,
      "EditedText": "I will take the first part of that question and then I will hand over to Mervyn Rolfe.Lothian and Edinburgh Enterprise Ltd is an example of an enterprise company that covers four local authority areas. The position as it was some time ago, when only one or two local authorities were represented on LEEL, disfranchised the other two local authorities. That has changed—the four local authorities are actively involved in LEEL. The commitment—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 156242,
      "EditedText": "To broaden out the theme that Margo MacDonald has embarked on, many of the people who have made submissions to us have been frank in conceding that there are difficulties, particularly in relation to the duplication of facilities. Can you—collectively or individually—identify instances of duplication?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Rolfe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 156243,
      "EditedText": "Before I answer that, let me make a brief point. As a result of a 1985 report—I think that it was called the Stoddard report—tourism was taken away from the regional councils and given to the district councils. One of the major effects was that the regional councils saw tourism as nothing to do with them, so they did not spend any money or time on developing it. Tourism did not merely disappear from their responsibilities, it disappeared entirely from their agenda. That was a waste and a loss; sometimes duplication is necessary to ensure that all the active bodies in an area buy in to strategic development, whether that is development of tourism or the economy.There are a number of areas where duplication takes place. Businesses are going to one organisation and then to another; they are almost playing one off against the other. Those businesses expect a grant from the local authority because they got one from the LEC—some grants are available from both sources. That is why it is important that there is proper signposting and a proper dialogue between the funding organisations. Signposting can be done by the business shops. In my area, the LEC and the local authority both give responsibility to the business shop for administering the grants that they award."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 156244,
      "EditedText": "Can I push you on best practice? Two organisations have grant-dispensing power in the same broad area, but one decides to contract its grant budget to the other. The local authority passes budget authorisation for, say, £50,000 to the LEC, which will administer two grant pots as one in the same broad policy area. Anyone who comes into the business shop in Dundee, for example, is being directed to that one pot of money, which is being administered by one organisation on behalf of two organisations. Have I understood you correctly?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156248",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Cunningham: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 156248,
      "EditedText": "In response to Miss Goldie's point, I should say that we have sometimes addressed that issue of duplication by agreeing on the appropriate lie of the land. In an attempt to reduce confusion and to avoid duplication in Renfrewshire, we decided to leave it to Renfrewshire Enterprise to concentrate on and to take the lead in business start-ups. Those start-ups can then avail themselves of the assistance that Renfrewshire Council offers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156249",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 156249,
      "EditedText": "So you have managed a delineation of duties to avoid duplication."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Cunningham: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 156250,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "ID": 3545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 156252,
      "EditedText": "My point is not dissimilar in so far as it is about best practice in local authority provision. The west of Scotland trading and development support scheme was mentioned as an example; I assume that it covers the 12 local authorities of the former Strathclyde Regional Council. How can a body that operates over such a large geographical area interface with the individual autonomous LECs within it? Why was it decided that it was more effective to organise on a pan-Strathclyde basis, rather than at the level of local authorities? Are other developmental services—such as export assistance and business advice—better organised on a regional basis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C156254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 156254,
      "EditedText": "Some of the questions that I wanted to ask about areas of duplication have already been answered. I am interested in finding out what tensions exist between the LECs and the local authorities, particularly given the fact that the money that local authorities spend is discretionary and its allocation must be set against all the other things that local authorities do. How do you see the future as we progress with community planning? What opportunities exist to make the system more efficient and cohesive, perhaps including the tourist boards and other funding providers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 156258,
      "EditedText": "I wish to talk about the development of the partnership approach, as people are focusing too much on duplication and friction. In 1995-96, COSLA and Scottish Enterprise and their respective networks first put together a partnership document to encourage councillors to work with LECs, and vice versa, because there was considerable friction. There were examples of LECs and local authorities working well together, such as in Lanarkshire and Dundee, but there were a lot of examples of friction.As we said in our paper, we put out a further document in 1999 about strengthening the partnership approach. In the intervening period, there had been a shift towards joint working, particularly on a project basis, but that had developed into joint strategy only in certain areas. Since 1995-96, there has been a sea change in the attitudes of councils and LECs to working together. When we had meetings with council officers and members in 1996-97, there was concern about the role of LECs and a lot of talk about takeovers and competition—such talk has entirely gone. From our most recent set of responses, which we gathered in preparation for the paper, it is clear that virtually all councils are committed to working with LECs not just in project development, but to achieve genuine strategic partnership. It is important to understand that process. As we suggest in our paper, that partnership will be strengthened by such things as the community planning process—there is a dynamic that will increase joint working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Cunningham: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 156261,
      "EditedText": "I will pick up on that point and on points that were made by the FSB and the FPB. In my experience, one of the difficulties that LECs face is the lack of transparency in what they can offer to companies. The strategy of LECs is to say that their aim is to support winners and to work with fast-growing companies. That makes it difficult to say no to companies and to articulate to the outside world what business support is all about. For example, a company that has received support from the enterprise company to go on a trade mission overseas may tell its next-door neighbour on the industrial estate, which may then seek the same funding. The LEC has to decide whether it is prepared to tell the second company that it does not think that it is going anywhere. The result is that we end up in a vicious circle.Local authorities have the advantage of being transparent in what they offer, although that is not to say that we are doing tremendously well. We are democratically accountable and we inform council committees of the criteria for the various business support programmes that we run. That information is generally available. I think that the way in which the LECs deal with businesses sometimes creates confusion; that has come through in some of the comments this morning. I would not say that there is much duplication, but perhaps there is a lack of understanding about the support that is on offer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 156263,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that their criticisms are unjustified?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 156266,
      "EditedText": "I have five questions, but they are brief ones. First, how many people are employed in economic development in Scotland through the councils? Secondly, how much is the consolidated budget for economic development? Thirdly, how do you measure your success—how do you determine whether you are doing a good job as an economic development body? Fourthly, in my previous life I had contact with many economic development officers. Most of them were very good—the main difficulties arose when we met the planning people. Do you think that planning should be brought within the remit of economic development? Finally, what is your view of the practice of economic development departments' taking equity shares in businesses, which then compete with other businesses in the area?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 156270,
      "EditedText": "That is not the case in all councils, is it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 156273,
      "EditedText": "I would be reluctant for councils to incorporate economic development and planning into the same committee. Planning is regulated by law. Councils must adopt those laws and must be seen to be impartial. For example, I am convener of economic development, transportation and strategic development, which is strategic planning. However, councils have a legal obligation for regulatory planning. It would be wrong for councils to tie together economic development and planning. We could get into bother."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 156278,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but I have also indicated that in some cases opportunities should be offered to individuals and companies and that they should have a choice. Duplication is not a problem that must be overcome at any cost; in some cases, companies require duplication of services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 156286,
      "EditedText": "A recurrent theme in today's submissions has been that provision of advice at a local level is supply driven rather than demand led. How do you address that? What dialogue do you have with the business community?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lex Gold (Scottish Chambers of Commerce): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 156291,
      "EditedText": "Thank you John. On my immediate left is Peter Burdon, who is the chief executive of Glasgow chamber of commerce. On his left is Liz Cameron, who is chief executive of Paisley chamber of commerce."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 156292,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for the paper that you provided to the committee in advance. It was helpful.I will begin by asking whether the chambers of commerce see their principal role as providers of services or providers of advice in relation to the areas that are of interest to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156293",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 156293,
      "EditedText": "Our role is wider than both of those."
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156294",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 156294,
      "EditedText": "I am sure it is."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 156301,
      "EditedText": "I will answer your second point first. We deal with exporting on a national level. Scottish Chambers of Commerce is the focus for any Department of Trade and Industry export grants. However, an individual chamber of commerce, such as Aberdeen, would lead on oil and gas going out to the middle east, for example. Because there is a national focus, duplication does not arise.Your specific question takes us to the core of some of the issues that have been discussed. Some LECs have been classed as good because they have listened to the local business community—which does not necessarily mean that they agree—are aware of what else is happening, and generally have formed partnerships. However, I would be stretching the truth to say that that has led to no duplication. I am not well placed to say whether there has been a reduction in duplication or overlap."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 156304,
      "EditedText": "Can I just stop you there, Lex?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 156307,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to mention the stages that are involved. It seems to us that one could go a stage beyond the business shop to franchise the delivery of business growth, training and business development in general to an organisation for each of the local enterprise company areas. That would provide a true one-stop shop where businesses would get not only the advice that they need but unambiguous help using it. Those are not absolutes but, having heard the debate today, I think that that approach could provide one solution to the problem of overlap and duplication. I am sorry that I took so long to explain."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
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    "Person": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 156308,
      "EditedText": "Not at all. Your contribution has been very helpful."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 156309,
      "EditedText": "Can you expand on what you mean by franchising the business shops?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C156311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 156311,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C156313",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 156313,
      "EditedText": "That is right. The democratic link is the Scottish Executive, which sets the guidelines for the strategies of Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise. We are talking about the local delivery of those strategies. To answer George Lyon's point, the concept of franchising the business shops is broad. It is not fully worked through. A lot of detailed work is required if we want to go in that direction. We were thinking about it before coming here, and, listening to your debate, I was stunned that you were on the same territory as us. Franchises could provide a one-stop shop that gives advice, guidance, delivery and support, and they could remove confusion. That is what most business people say. We would see them as being competitively tendered. We believe that existing partners—we have heard quite a bit about partnership today—such as chambers of commerce, local authorities, enterprise trusts, business shops and, possibly, some of the existing LEC staff, could be in the process of bidding for a franchise. The franchise would be time-bound. Clear quality and other outcome measures would be set. That, broadly speaking, would be the basis on which to go forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4639878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lex Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 156322,
      "EditedText": "My sensitivity is born of the fact that the majority of the chambers are in support of this notion, but not all are. It is a new idea that came out of the invitation to meet the committee—and out of some thinking that we did—and it needs a lot more work before it can be implemented. I would add—I did not do so earlier, Annabel, as I was under pressure from the convener not to go on for so long—that I envisage it as a hub-and-spoke model. In other words, the rural parts of Scotland could be covered by placing the centre in Inverness, and by having outposts in places such as Caithness, Fort William, and Lochalsh. A hub-and-spoke model could be adopted for that franchise, which would give broad coverage.We had in mind the existing partnerships when we considered who would be involved. It would have to be competitively bid for. However, our member chambers have a reasonable stake in the training element, which they could lose. I do not believe that all those who are providing training or services need lose out, as the new organisation—which would sit below the LEC—would contract and would not be able to supply all training in-house. It would be charged with the duty of not sending a person from one pillar to another post, saying, \"You are going to these people for training. They have got what you want.\""
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 156323,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify this, Lex. One of these bodies—enterprise trusts or local authorities—might be a contracting deliverer?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 156327,
      "EditedText": "Within which boundary?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156328",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
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      "EditedText": "Within the local enterprise company boundary. As I have already said to Annabel, I see the spread-out as being a hub-and-spoke mechanism, because it should not be too far away from the individuals who are looking for the service. It will deliver the whole start-up area of the development of business growth and training. Those two areas can sit happily together."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 156329,
      "EditedText": "In a single contract?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 156331,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to ask about workplace training and some of the barriers to access that have been mentioned. Do you think that there is any merit in the establishment of some sort of Scotland-wide lead body to overcome some of those problems?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156333",
    "Meeting": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
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      "EditedText": "That is my point. There is no single body."
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  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156335",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 156335,
      "EditedText": "Is workplace training a problem only in small businesses?"
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  {
    "ID": "C156336",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
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      "EditedText": "The main area of problem is in small businesses, but medium and large businesses have problems as well."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gold: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 156345,
      "EditedText": "We will not meet that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3546,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ID": 3546,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 156348,
      "EditedText": "I think we are happy to endorse that programme. The only minor amendment that I suggest would be to the business in the chamber proposal, which refers to five individual businessmen or women. Those people need not be individual businessmen or women. They might be people who have experienced the delivery of local economic development services as consumers; they might be people who have made application and failed to secure the necessary development services. I would add that proviso."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 3547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ID": 3547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 156351,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is the consideration of two statutory instruments that have been referred to us for consideration by the Subordinate Legislation Committee. At our previous meeting, I was concerned that specific points were raised on statutory instruments for which the committee clerk and I were unable to provide answers. I felt that that was unsatisfactory.Today, on the Education (Student Loans) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/124), we are joined by Gillian Thompson of the Scottish Executive enterprise and lifelong learning department. On the Thurso College (Change of Name) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SI 1999/126), we are joined by Colin Reeves from the same department. I am grateful for their attendance to give specific answers to concerns raised by the committee. Their attendance is a point of practice that we have to establish to ensure that we are able to consider such issues properly.Do members have any points to raise on the Education (Student Loans) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/124)?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 3547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ID": 3547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Thompson (Scottish Executive Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 156353,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 3547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ID": 3547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 156356,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments?That point will be in the Official Report of our meeting and will be fed back to ministers. On that basis, I take it that the committee has no other comments to raise on the regulations. Are we agreed that the Parliament's attention need not be drawn to the regulations that are before us today?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 3547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ID": 3547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 156358,
      "EditedText": "I am tempted to raise a point just to give the Scottish Executive officials something to do but, as I come from Renfrewshire, I will not be so impertinent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 3547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ID": 3547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 156359,
      "EditedText": "The point of practice—that we are equipped to answer any points that arise—is an important one.Are we agreed that the Parliament's attention need not be drawn to the regulations that are before us today?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 156362,
      "EditedText": "I do not mind meeting on Fridays, but if we are going to do so, we need a longer lead time, as members are booked up on Fridays into January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 156364,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that we will ask the clerks to find the first Friday in January that is convenient for everyone? Elaine, you say no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 156368,
      "EditedText": "I support that proposition. We need to get evidence from groups with different viewpoints. Given the work that we have done on Arran, I suggest that we invite the community organisation there that pulled together the various interests to give evidence at the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C156369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 156369,
      "EditedText": "Will we offer to hear evidence from the local community in Arran via videoconference, rather than asking people to travel to Edinburgh?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiries",
      "HeadingID": 3548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ID": 3548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 156373,
      "EditedText": "There appears to be a trend in the communication that we receive from the minister's office. When can we expect the next slump? What will we do when it comes? Do we just pack up these factories and walk away? That is the kind of issue that I want us to explore. The inquiry needs to be broadened out to examine some of the other companies in the field and hear input from other businesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4796113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C156174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 156174,
      "EditedText": "It occurs to me that I am a real person, because I am one of the people who contributes to the regular forum surveys. At the risk of boring committee members, I should repeat that I am a member of the Forum of Private Business, the Federation of Small Businesses and the Scottish Council Development and Industry, which may have views on this topic that it wants to put to the committee at a future date. I see that the council is represented here today in the shape of Alan Wilson.I will confine my remarks to the CBI representative, Mr Farrow. I had always thought that the CBI represented big business. Mr Lyon made similar comments to that effect. You said that you have 25,000 members. I think the committee ought to be clear about exactly who the CBI represents. Will you tell us, either this morning or at some future date, what proportion of your membership is made up of small businesses, how you define a small business, and how many small businesses you represent? That will give us a clear picture of who you are speaking for in giving your evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C156178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 10 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 824
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-10T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 156178,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that you are now beginning to consider the matter carefully. I recall that you said earlier that you have carried out no survey of your members' views and that you tend to wait until members approach you. Do you plan to consult your members before coming back to us with specific proposals or suggestions for our local economic development inquiry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 638545,
      "EditedText": "I have received apologies from Trish Godman, Ian Welsh and Ian Jenkins. Unfortunately, this morning's meeting clashes with other committee meetings.We have a short agenda. We will look first at the Executive responses that have been received."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 19338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 638553,
      "EditedText": "The second item on our agenda is the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill. We will deal with this item in two parts. A letter has been received from Tom McCabe, copies of which I have been able to circulate only this morning. Does the committee agree to my moving the amendment to the bill at this afternoon's meeting of the Audit Committee? Views on that have been canvassed. We agreed that it would allow matters to progress—depending, of course, on the view that the Audit Committee takes—and that it would ensure that this committee's perspective was represented. Are members agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 19338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 638557,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:20."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999 (SSI 1999/130)",
      "HeadingID": 19337,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 19337,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 638551,
      "EditedText": "The Executive's response acknowledges that it was unnecessary to include a definition of the wafer Scottish seal in the statutory instrument. Having said that a definition is unnecessary in paragraph 3, however, it goes on to argue in paragraph 4 that a definition is necessary. It would appear that the Executive has given us a wafer waffle report. I therefore agree with David Mundell—in the spirit of cross-party co-operation—that we should draw the matter to the Parliament's attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No. 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 19336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638546,
      "EditedText": "We have had the benefit of a legal briefing on this order. We note that consolidation is planned. Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999 (SSI 1999/130)",
      "HeadingID": 19337,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 19337,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 638549,
      "EditedText": "The second response before us is on the Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999. We have received an explanation. Our position is that the Executive has not yet sufficiently addressed the poor drafting of the order. Are there any comments in the light of the informal briefing that we had earlier?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999 (SSI 1999/130)",
      "HeadingID": 19337,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 19337,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 638552,
      "EditedText": "Are we all agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No. 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 19336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638547,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased that the Executive has agreed that consolidation is necessary, which undoubtedly marks the first great victory for this committee in persuading the Executive to act correctly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:18.3299743+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 19335,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638544,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:16"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No. 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 19336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638548,
      "EditedText": "We note the Executive's response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999 (SSI 1999/130)",
      "HeadingID": 19337,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 19337,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 638550,
      "EditedText": "Given our commitment to quality, we should draw the Parliament's attention to the defective drafting of the instrument, which will, I hope, lead to success similar to that achieved on the previous order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 19338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 638554,
      "EditedText": "Secondly, as we have discussed, there is a procedural problem that we must try to work round. We can level no criticism at the direction in which Tom McCabe is heading. Are members agreed that we should prepare and send a letter to the Procedures Committee, which it will then be able to consider next week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 19338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 638555,
      "EditedText": "I think that every member of the committee agrees with the point that Tom McCabe makes in his letter about statutory instruments not being laid and about the need to ensure that we have the broader power to scrutinise instruments. I agree, therefore, that a letter should be sent that reflects those sentiments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3618
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19338,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 19338,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 638556,
      "EditedText": "If both this committee and Tom McCabe write letters, some pressure should be brought to bear on the Procedures Committee. That concludes today's business, if not in record time, then not far from it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 419059,
      "EditedText": "I understand that, but are you saying that hydration and nutrition should never be withdrawn from people who are in a persistent vegetative state?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 419067,
      "EditedText": "The bill says that the wishes of the adult should be taken into account. Are you saying that in no circumstances should the removal of feeding by artificial means—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 419069,
      "EditedText": "I asked a straight question. Are you saying that in no circumstances should hydration and nutrition be withdrawn?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 419107,
      "EditedText": "Could we ask others to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 419126,
      "EditedText": "So you see no role for the Crown, given that we now have planning authorities and so on to act in the public interest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 419130,
      "EditedText": "I wish I had not asked that question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 419177,
      "EditedText": "We have received submissions from a major commercial firm in Edinburgh, which raised interesting issues about commercial leases, although they were not the firm's business. The impact on commercial leases in Scotland has now been addressed. The firm argues strenuously that we should be examining the law on commercial leases in Scotland contemporaneously with this bill and with something called the title conditions bill, which I did not know about, but which the firm claims is linked to the other issues. If everything is linked together, it will be hard to consider the proposed legislation without having sight of the title conditions bill. What is the position on a proposed act on leases for Scotland? I have other questions, but no more on this particular area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 419220,
      "EditedText": "My final question concerns another technical matter that should probably be dealt with later in the passage of the bill. Your submission points out that many landowners have a huge number of titles and that the time scale for putting in a notice after the appointed day is not appropriate. Is it your belief that, in cases that involve forestry or local authorities, simply detecting the titles that are held will be a massive undertaking?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 621.0,
      "ContributionID": 419279,
      "EditedText": "Title and interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11205,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11205,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 418976,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:33"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11205,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11205,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 418977,
      "EditedText": "The committee is quorate. Although I am sure that other committee members will arrive in the next few minutes, I do not intend to delay proceedings until everyone is here.Although the official reporters are recording this part of our meeting, the committee has agreed to let them have a small break for the first few minutes of the meeting while we discuss how we approach today's proceedings. If the official reporters stop recording now, I will advise them when to begin again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999 (SSI 1999/130)",
      "HeadingID": 11206,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11206,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 418980,
      "EditedText": "We now come to item 2, on subordinate legislation. We have been asked to consider the Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999 (SSI 1999/130). I am grateful to the clerk for the helpful note that was attached to the statutory instrument. The note was very clear. In my view, we probably do not need to discuss or debate the instrument at all. Is everyone happy with that?Unless we do anything, the directions become law, and I can see no reason why they should not. Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999 (SSI 1999/130)",
      "HeadingID": 11206,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11206,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 418981,
      "EditedText": "Fascinating."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999 (SSI 1999/130)",
      "HeadingID": 11206,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 11206,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 418982,
      "EditedText": "Fascinating, indeed. You learn something new every day, Maureen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 418983,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 is further evidence taking on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. I ask John Deighan, parliamentary officer of the Catholic Church in Scotland, Mary Kearns, chairman of the Scottish Council on Human Bioethics, and Dr George Chalmers and Dr Philip Howard of the Scottish Council on Human Bioethics to come to the table."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 418985,
      "EditedText": "Forty-five minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 418987,
      "EditedText": "I ask the witnesses to introduce themselves to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Deighan (Parliamentary Officer, Catholic Church in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 418988,
      "EditedText": "I am John Deighan, parliamentary officer of the Catholic Church. I am grateful for the opportunity to express the Catholic Church's concerns on the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns (Chairman, Scottish Council on Human Bioethics): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 418989,
      "EditedText": "I am Mary Kearns. I am a solicitor advocate, practising in Edinburgh. I am chairman of the Scottish Council on Human Bioethics"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Philip Howard (Scottish Council on Human Bioethics): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 418990,
      "EditedText": "I am Dr Philip Howard, consultant physician, gastroenterologist, senior lecturer in medicine and fellow of the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr George Chalmers (Scottish Council on Human Bioethics): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 418991,
      "EditedText": "I am Dr George Chalmers, former consultant geriatrician, clinical director at Glasgow Royal Infirmary and fellow of the Royal College of Physicians in Edinburgh and the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow. I represent not only the council, but CARE—Christian Action, Research and Education—for Scotland and the board of social responsibility of the Church of Scotland, of whose executive I am a member."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 418996,
      "EditedText": "When I put those points to the Scottish Executive solicitors at last week's meeting, they said that the matter is currently dealt with under common law, by application to the Court of Session. It was their view that the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration—even after the enactment of the bill—would still be dealt with on petition to the Court of Session. Do you accept that? I see the witnesses shaking their heads."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Deighan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 418997,
      "EditedText": "It is clear from the bill that there is no such safeguard, nor is there an onus on anyone to go to the Court of Session. The bill explicitly says that, on the word of a welfare attorney, the medical practitioner must withhold treatment that he may deem to be necessary. Section 1 is supposed to offer protection against that; however, it offers only some protection in the case of an action. In this case, we are talking about an omission and there is no accounting for omissions in the bill at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 419003,
      "EditedText": "No, thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C419004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 419004,
      "EditedText": "Would your point be answered if the principles of the bill included a general duty of care, that any decision to give or withhold treatment should be beneficial to the patient—or that such treatment should be the most beneficial, as often more than one treatment is available? At the moment, the bill says only that it should not be restrictive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 419007,
      "EditedText": "Many of the points that I was going to raise have been covered. Do the witnesses agree that they are worried not only about the refusal of food and fluid? Do they think that there might be other implications? Medical treatment could be withheld, and there could be a delay because the doctor and medical authorities would have to go to court to allow certain treatments to proceed. Do the witnesses want to see that reversed? They seem to prefer the welfare attorney having to go to court if they want their wishes to be followed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 419008,
      "EditedText": "We have tried to come up with amendments that give patients the same or similar protection as that which they have at the moment, so that the protection available to incapable people is not reduced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 419010,
      "EditedText": "One would not need do that, as the best approach is a team approach—the doctor, the carers and the welfare attorney would all be involved. However, someone with no responsibility should not be given the power to overrule someone who otherwise would have had that responsibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C419016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 419016,
      "EditedText": "In the papers that the witnesses kindly submitted, they highlighted their feeling that there are deficiencies in sections 73 and 74, in relation to what they call power without responsibility. Will they talk us through that point and highlight what the issues are?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 419018,
      "EditedText": "Please clarify which subsection you are talking about. I cannot see a section 47(6)."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 419024,
      "EditedText": "No. I am referring to section 47(2) of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 419029,
      "EditedText": "Our view is that proxy decision makers should be made responsible for their actions by being given a duty of care. If that is done, proxy decision makers will have an obligation to seek medical advice from a doctor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 419031,
      "EditedText": "As they would be subject to a duty of care, if they did not agree with the medical advice, they would have to seek other such advice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Deighan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 419033,
      "EditedText": "We would like the burden placed on the person who disagreed with good medical opinion. If they went to court and were scrutinised, they would have to show why they acted in the face of medical advice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 419034,
      "EditedText": "That is subsection (2) reversed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 419036,
      "EditedText": "Good medical advice will not always be in accord with the principles that you would presumably wish to espouse. When we began our consideration of the bill, some committee members, such as Tricia Marwick, expressed concern about the fact that the bill would take away the right to make decisions from family members and so on. Paradoxically, you seem to be saying that you want that as well. You want the doctor to be in the key position, but a doctor will not always give the advice that you will want to hear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 419038,
      "EditedText": "If the medical advice to switch off support, for example, is not morally acceptable to an individual, there might be a conflict. The medical advice and the moral imperative will not necessarily be the same."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 419043,
      "EditedText": "You said that you wanted a duty of care attached to the attorney so that they could make the decision in that knowledge. You are now saying that the doctor is more qualified to take the decision. Who do you want to take the decision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 419045,
      "EditedText": "Who should that person be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 419046,
      "EditedText": "If the attorney has that responsibility, he must be held accountable if he goes contrary to medical advice and opinion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 419052,
      "EditedText": "Doctors can make decisions. If a patient chooses to appoint an attorney, the attorney can, under the bill, make decisions. We do not have a problem with that. It is imperative that attorneys make decisions for which they are responsible. To do that, they need to take medical advice. If they do not agree with the medical advice, they can seek other medical advice—there is nothing to prevent them from doing that. The decision should be a properly informed and they should be responsible for it. Could I return to an earlier point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 419055,
      "EditedText": "Can we avoid getting into the detailed amendments? You would like a duty of care put into the bill—we understand that general principle, even if at this stage we are not into the business of discussing detailed ways in which we might achieve that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 419062,
      "EditedText": "It should never be done with the intention of causing the death of the patient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 419064,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Deighan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 419066,
      "EditedText": "The Executive has stated that it does not wish euthanasia to be introduced. The scenario that you have described represents euthanasia."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Deighan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 419070,
      "EditedText": "I would say that in no circumstances should they be withdrawn. However, that scenario has been presented under common law and, in the particular situation that you describe, they can be withdrawn. To deem the removal of hydration and nutrition to be of benefit is the Law hospital scenario but—under this legislation—without the court scrutiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 419073,
      "EditedText": "I will take that as a yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 419075,
      "EditedText": "You would like the bill to be amended to stop the common law going in the direction in which you think it is going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Deighan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 419076,
      "EditedText": "To stop it going further in that direction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 419078,
      "EditedText": "It would go some way to doing that, but it would still not make proxy decision makers accountable or responsible for their decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 419092,
      "EditedText": "I want to come back on a point made by Christine Grahame. Section 1(4)(a) talks about the past and present wishes of the incapacitated individual. If we introduce your duty of care for the proxy or the welfare attorney, there will be a conflict. In cases where the adult has expressed their wishes, what is the overriding factor—section 1(4)(a) about the past wishes of the individual, or the duty of care, which currently the doctor has, but which, under your amendments, the welfare attorney would have?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Deighan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 419093,
      "EditedText": "The living will was deliberately taken out of this bill. If individuals' wishes are to take precedence, living wills should be re-introduced. If that is the case, let us say it, rather than have it hidden behind the legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Deighan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 419095,
      "EditedText": "The duty of care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 419097,
      "EditedText": "Very quickly, as we are running out of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 419100,
      "EditedText": "It is on the record because it is the evidence that the witnesses wish to give."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 419101,
      "EditedText": "I want to put on record that I do not accept that, as the bill stands—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 419102,
      "EditedText": "Pauline, we cannot dictate to witnesses that they can give only the evidence that we want to hear. People may not like what they hear or consider it appropriate in the context. We will a take decision on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 419104,
      "EditedText": "The problem is, of course, that people have different definitions of what is in the best interests of patients. This discussion is about those differing definitions of what might be considered appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 419105,
      "EditedText": "My concern is—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 419108,
      "EditedText": "We could write to them and ask them to comment. It would be helpful if we could direct them to the Official Report of last week's and this week's meetings. Clearly, that is a practical difficulty that needs to be overcome.You are suggesting that we should see the British Medical Association, the Royal College of Nursing of the United Kingdom and Professor Sheila McLean."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 419113,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to keep going over the same ground."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 419116,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 419120,
      "EditedText": "I remind everyone that, when the bill comes back to us for stage 2 consideration, we will look at it in great detail. At that time there will be the opportunity to revisit what we have discussed today. Members should bear in mind the fact that we are preparing a draft report on the principles of the bill. I think that we are beginning to psychologically prepare ourselves for the amendment stage, but we are not at that stage yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 419121,
      "EditedText": "Can you confirm that when we move to stage 2 we will not be seeing witnesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 419127,
      "EditedText": "It is hard to see what the role has been that we will be losing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 419129,
      "EditedText": "Prerogative rights are, for example, the right to confer peerages and to give royal pardons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 419133,
      "EditedText": "Pauline, I think that you had concerns about when the provisions were coming into force."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 419135,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 419136,
      "EditedText": "I did not want to leave this issue without raising a point of my own. Like Christine, I have been impressed by the submissions that say that no one will be acting in the public interest. The contention is that, by not having the Crown or someone acting in the public interest, the position of landowners will be strengthened, but one of the concepts behind land reform is that it should be done in the public interest. Surely there must be another idea that we can think of that would invent a public interest at the same time as abolishing the feudal system. There is a desire for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 419139,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 419140,
      "EditedText": "You indicated to me that you had questions about the timing of when the act will come into force."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 419143,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of reasons. The bill refers to the \"appointed day\", which is the day on which the feudal system will be abolished. The bill gives Scottish ministers the power to fix that date. That is partly to provide some flexibility. If one specifies a day in the bill, which then becomes primary legislation, and one gets the day wrong, it is more difficult to remedy the situation because there would need to be another bill to change the day. If a statutory instrument is used to specify the day, there is more flexibility to work out when the abolition can be achieved.The Scottish Law Commission recommended that at least two years should elapse between royal assent and the appointed day. The reason for the time lag is to enable necessary arrangements to be made by people to adapt to the new law. In many cases, superiors will be able to reserve certain rights by registering a notice or an agreement and, in some instances, they may need to make application to the Lands Tribunal for Scotland.It will be necessary for all superiors, including public bodies such as local authorities, to examine their estates to decide which rights they wish to preserve. In fact, we have had some representations that two years is too short a time; for example, the Law Society of Scotland feels that the time is too short. There are views on both sides of the argument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 419151,
      "EditedText": "Ministers might still want to make a statement of their intentions, which would allow members to debate the issue. However, the question of whether a date should be prescribed in the bill still requires to be discussed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 419154,
      "EditedText": "Where is that room to come and go? Does responsibility for that rest within the setting up of the bill, with the Scottish Executive and the civil service, which are deliberating, or with members of this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Joyce Lugton (Scottish Executive Justice Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 419158,
      "EditedText": "That is one of the specific issues on which the policy memorandum invited the views of this committee. It is an area that was highlighted for further debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Brown (Scottish Executive Office of the Solicitor): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 419161,
      "EditedText": "It would certainly allow the landowner to keep very tight control of what happens on the land. There are other parallels with the feudal system. Under a lease, as under the feudal system, there is very often a right of irritancy written in favour of the landlord. That means that, if a condition is breached, the landlord can take back the property. If the tenant has carried out development on the property, that would amount to a windfall to the landlord."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C419162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 419162,
      "EditedText": "If, in the breaks in the lease in which renegotiation takes place, one created an opportunity to renegotiate the conditions—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 419163,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to interrupt, but a contractual right for the tenant to say to the landlord that they want to rewrite the lease is very rare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C419164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 419164,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to establish how many instances of long leases you think there will be. Do you think that they will develop dramatically, or is this a de minimis matter; in other words, will there be very few instances? The preference in Scotland is for freehold tenure. Are we inserting into the legislation something that does not need to be included, because it will happen very rarely?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 419167,
      "EditedText": "It is fair to say that thinking has not totally crystallised on this issue. We are acting on the recommendations of the Scottish Law Commission, and we understand that the commission is starting to receive representations from commercial developers and legal interests representing commercial developers that were not as evident when it was preparing its report on abolition of the feudal system. There is some scope for thinking in this area to develop further. However, I go back to what Mrs Lugton said about the length of the long lease being a matter on which we specifically requested the views of the committee. I am sure that you will receive representations on that subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 419170,
      "EditedText": "I will refer the question to Mrs Lugton."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lugton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 419173,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but I think that that is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 419174,
      "EditedText": "If that is the case, that is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 419180,
      "EditedText": "I want to advise the committee at this point that I received a letter from the Minister for Justice this morning about the proposed member's bill on leasehold casualties. The letter says that the Executive would be prepared to support such a bill, which would be required to come to this committee. We will need to come to a decision on how we would deal with that, but we will reserve that for later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lugton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 419183,
      "EditedText": "I think that it will not. We should perhaps step back a stage to the question about seeing the bill in the context of the programme. Property law is a large subject and a daunting one. That is why it was always assumed that this would be a staged project.The Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill, the title conditions bill and the law of the tenement bill are closely linked. They were always to be considered in stages because there is a great deal of administrative work to be done by property interests generally to secure an orderly transition from the existing state of the law to the new state of the law. For that reason, it was assumed that the feudal bill should come first to enable the necessary administrative work to be done before the title conditions bill is commenced. It is proposed that large parts of the feudal bill will not be commenced until the title conditions bill is also commenced. That is the programme that is proposed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay (Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 419199,
      "EditedText": "There are instances where the superior has an obligation to do that. In one example, a citizen decided he wanted to apply to register his garden as a site for the registration of vehicles. As the superior's agent, I was called on to intervene as the deeds stated clearly that the superior had an obligation to protect the amenity of the community concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 419201,
      "EditedText": "It might be, but that would put an obligation on the individual, which may be correct legally but a burdensome matter for the individual concerned, whereas the superior had an obligation at their cost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 419205,
      "EditedText": "The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors has said all along that a review is necessary, but that the good parts must not be thrown away."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English (Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 419207,
      "EditedText": "Let us look at this logically. A redemption rate 20 times the valuation figure represents, in valuation terms, a yield of 5 per cent. The majority of feuduties are very small sums of money that cost a great deal to collect. As we have heard before, there is concern that some feuduties have not been collected at all. Because the duties cost a lot to collect, anyone who wants to acquire a superiority with the feuduty will not throw a large amount of money at it because it will not provide a good return. The 20-years' purchase, as we surveyors call it, is an historic figure that is completely out of keeping with the current market. Whole superiorities change hands at figures of less than half of that figure. That includes all the other potential rights and the bits and pieces that go along with the right to the feuduty. It therefore makes no sense for the vassal to have to pay 20 times the figure just to buy out the monetary item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 419225,
      "EditedText": "Am I right in thinking that, currently, under the feudal system, a burden would exist in perpetuity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ContributionID": 419228,
      "EditedText": "Either it will be abolished or it will be converted to a neighbour or community burden."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 419235,
      "EditedText": "Our concern is that the obligation to settle the monetary element of the feuduty on sale continues after the passing of the act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 419236,
      "EditedText": "That is the case under the 1974 act. Is there a time limit on the payment of that duty? I do not think that there is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 419238,
      "EditedText": "And you want to give people 42 days to pay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 419239,
      "EditedText": "If an instalment has not been paid within 42 days, there is an obligation to pay the entire sum. In addition to that, we want the situation that applies at present to the point of sale to continue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 419240,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask you about part 3.6 of the report, which says:\"While such superiorities may have become dormant, perhaps due to collection ceasing, there must therefore be a fair method to deal with such cases.\"What would be a fair method?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 419241,
      "EditedText": "We are concerned about this because, at the time of the local government reorganisation, there was a great deal of confusion about who owned what and whether ground burdens had been redeemed. In some instances, ground burdens were due but local authorities refused to acknowledge that they were liable to pay them. There should be some kind of facility whereby those problems can be sorted out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 419246,
      "EditedText": "You seem to represent mainly the interests of superiors. Other issues must be considered, such as those that concern vassals. People have suffered at the hands of superiors who have charged large sums of money for burdens. We must address those interests to balance up our consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 419247,
      "EditedText": "The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, under a royal charter, is apolitical. We are obliged to serve the public interest. If you consider our paper, you will recognise that we believe that the vassals are already suffering and are having to pay too much to clear the monetary burden. At the same time, the superior—whether you like him or not—has an interest in land. In all fairness, that should be compensated for. The institution is trying to express a balanced view. We do not believe that we are expressing the superiors' view; we are trying to express a totally impartial view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 419249,
      "EditedText": "I could accept that solution, as it would reserve the rights of the developer. I do not think that people will rush out and start granting leases instead of selling by the feudal system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ContributionID": 419253,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Fewer funding institutions would be willing to participate in the development exercise. There is an end-stop of a couple of hundred years, we believe. RICS Scotland believes that a lease of 200 years is not unreasonable. However, one of 999 years is just foolish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ContributionID": 419254,
      "EditedText": "I must bring this discussion to a close. We keep getting involved in specific arguments, but we have identified that there is concern about the length of commercial leases. Although there may be debate about their length, the evidence—especially from you—suggests that it should be longer than 125 years. Thank you for coming to the committee today and for your written submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Callander (Land Reform Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 575.0,
      "ContributionID": 419257,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the objective of the Scottish Law Commission's original report that the rights that the Crown shares with other feudal superiors should be abolished. The report specified those as the rights to create new feus, to exact payment of feuduties and, as a feudal superior, to enforce land conditions. The report stated that the Crown need not, having lost those rights, be called the paramount superior and that no other rights of the Crown, whether of feudal origin or not, should be affected. My concern is that section 56, which is at best ambiguous, does not deliver those objectives; it abolishes all rights pertaining to the paramount superiority rather than the specific rights that the Crown as a superior shares with other feudal superiors. I suggest that the way of resolving the issue of the Crown would be for section 56 to specify the rights that are abolished. When the Law Commission was asked what the other rights of the Crown were, it said in its report that it could not disentangle the rights that attached to the Crown by virtue of its paramount superiority from those that attached to it by virtue of its rights sovereignty.The Scottish Executive witness was fairly economical when asked what the other Crown prerogative rights were. The witness referred, for example, to peerages and pardons. In fact, the prerogative rights of the Crown include regalia rights and the ownership of the sea bed and foreshore. An awful lot of rights attach to the Crown within the Scottish system of land law. We should, therefore, make it clear that what is being abolished are simply the rights that the Crown shares with other paramount superiors, and that none of the other rights is affected. That was the intention of the Law Commission. Section 56 does not deliver that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 419260,
      "EditedText": "I have a question for Elizabeth Leighton. Based on your briefing paper, it seems fair to say that you are disappointed with the bill. You claim:\"The Policy Memorandum simply states ‘The Bill has no effect on sustainable development.'\"Will you briefly explain your concerns for our benefit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 594.0,
      "ContributionID": 419266,
      "EditedText": "You are saying that, at the moment, land may be owned but the Crown has the ultimate superiority, and that the bill will remove that ultimate superiority. However, my instinct—it is only an instinct—is that the problem is more theoretical than real. Tell me where I am wrong and give me a specific example of something that you see happening—perhaps hypothetically—that will cause the huge difficulty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wightman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 600.0,
      "ContributionID": 419269,
      "EditedText": "Let us look at the 1980s legislation on sites of special scientific interest. Landowners demanded compensation for not doing things that, in some cases, they may not have been planning to do anyway. They demanded compensation because the Administration at the time was ready to concede that point. However, those demands would be less readily accepted by the courts if the legislature could say, \"This action is in the public interest because there is a public interest in all land that is represented by the Crown.\" If that argument is not available, it will become more difficult for the legislature to enact legislation.To an extent, that example is theoretical because we do not know what the detailed consequences of the bill will be. The issue is: why throw out something of value simply because the drafting is a bit haywire?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 606.0,
      "ContributionID": 419272,
      "EditedText": "Are there other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Callander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 615.0,
      "ContributionID": 419276,
      "EditedText": "Yes, to specify the rights that are being abolished. The Scottish Law Commission spelt out in its reports what those are. The Crown should no longer be able to create feus, enforce burdens or extract payment duties—that is what should be specified, then the rest is simplified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Callander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 629.0,
      "ContributionID": 419283,
      "EditedText": "No. The question of what the feudal system is could be debated all day. It has been in place for 900 years, and one might consider that all Scottish land is part of the feudal system. In section 1 of the bill, the Scottish Law Commission and the Scottish Executive have defined the feudal system as a superior-vassal relationship. In that sense, what is being said is, \"Yes, let us get rid of the feudal system.\" The Crown, no more than anybody else, should have a feudal superior interest in any particular property. At the moment, the Crown has certain rights to unowned property such as the foreshore and the seabed. Members may be aware of the Crown patrimony, by which the Crown has title to Holyrood and places such as this. The lawyers have not yet given us a clear indication whether that is part of the Crown's identity as a paramount superior, and which areas belong to the Crown by virtue of prerogative. When we abolish the feudal system, as we should, we must treat the Crown with particular care, so that we do not throw away anything that may be deemed valuable later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 635.0,
      "ContributionID": 419286,
      "EditedText": "Why can the Parliament not do that simply by planning the legislation that it chooses to enact?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 643.0,
      "ContributionID": 419290,
      "EditedText": "I presume that you heard the discussion before you came to the table. It was suggested that we spell out the rights that the Crown would retain, particularly in relation to public interest. Do you have a view on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 645.0,
      "ContributionID": 419291,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We are dealing with a bill to abolish—I emphasise that word—the feudal system. It makes no sense to abolish the feudal structure and retain the paramount superiority of the Crown. If that happens, we will not have abolished the feudal system. The bill will have to be radically altered if that is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 649.0,
      "ContributionID": 419293,
      "EditedText": "That is not what I understood from the evidence that I heard. I understood that the superiority rights would be abolished in regard to individual properties but that the Crown would retain paramount superiority over land, which would give it some sort of public interest in land—an interest that does not exist under the feudal system at the moment.At the moment, the Crown cannot intervene in a feudal dispute between a vassal and a superior in Bishopbriggs. One cannot appeal to the Crown, as it has no role to play in the current feudal system.As I understood the discussion—I have to say that I might not have understood it all—a new and enhanced role for the Crown was proposed. That role would still be tied to some form of paramount feudal superiority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 653.0,
      "ContributionID": 419295,
      "EditedText": "Currently, as feudal superior, the Crown does not represent the public interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 655.0,
      "ContributionID": 419296,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that currently, there is no public interest, in that sense?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 667.0,
      "ContributionID": 419302,
      "EditedText": "I was trying to understand it, too. I listened to the idea of retaining the Crown, and I thought that it was a political argument, not a legal one. The idea behind it—right or wrong—was that the people should be the ultimate owners of the land. That was wrapped up in an argument that, because of the American model, compensation would be affected. No one could give me a specific example, but apparently, if people had absolute ownership, Government proposals could somehow be blocked in a way in which they could not be if the Crown was still the overall superior. Could you see how that would happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 669.0,
      "ContributionID": 419303,
      "EditedText": "That is the proposal as I understood it. I could not see how the fact that the Crown retained some sort of paramount superiority, with no rights to enforce any burdens, because the feudal structure below would have collapsed, would present the Crown as the owner of the land for the people. The Crown, as paramount superior, does not own the land for the people; the Crown owns it for the Crown."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 675.0,
      "ContributionID": 419306,
      "EditedText": "Did you want to ask another question, Christine?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 688.0,
      "ContributionID": 419312,
      "EditedText": "You are the Law Society of Scotland's expert on conveyancing. Will the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill reduce solicitors' fees for conveyancing and will the title conditions bill add to them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 692.0,
      "ContributionID": 419314,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Professor Rennie. We are extremely grateful for your brief appearance before us, which has been very useful. You are free to go. The official reporters may also go, but I would like members to remain behind for five more minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 419128,
      "EditedText": "I may get into a quagmire with this question, but could you tell me what the Crown's prerogative rights are?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 419181,
      "EditedText": "I have other questions, but I wanted to ask about the law of leases. Will we address the problems that have been exposed by transfer of ownership from title to leasehold property in Scotland? There are so many ramifications that we cannot consider the value of the bill on its own without seeing the other adjacent bills."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 419212,
      "EditedText": "That explains the situation. Your submission also states:\"We cannot see an answer\".Should we perhaps leave it to the lawyers at the Executive to see an answer if they agree that there is a problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 617.0,
      "ContributionID": 419277,
      "EditedText": "I think that I understood that. The Crown would be left with the title and interest to intervene in court cases. It could represent the interests of the Scottish people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 678.0,
      "ContributionID": 419307,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to ask about the other adjacent, or linked, legislation. Do we need to see the other bills before we can go back to the principles of this one? We have to consider the knock-on effect on commercial leases as well as the effects of the title conditions bill and the leases (Scotland) bill, and I do not know what those bills will say. What is your view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 419056,
      "EditedText": "I wish to clarify some points. Dr Chalmers, you referred to withdrawal of nutrition and hydration. Do you think that that should be done only if somebody is dying?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 419065,
      "EditedText": "Section 1(4) says that\"account shall be taken of the present and past wishes and feelings of the adult so far as they can be ascertained\".I take it that your view is that, if I were to make it clear that I do not wish to be given fluids and so on if I am ever in a persistent vegetative state, you would still believe that I should have fluids and so on administered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 419109,
      "EditedText": "And someone from the Court of Session—for example, a delictual judge, who might see the issue from the point of view of the role of the courts. Matters have been raised—for example, what would be done in an emergency—that mean it would be good to have input from the judiciary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 419119,
      "EditedText": "If you are happy that individual members of the committee do that, then we shall. I find the subject to be a difficult one because it raises a lot of ethical questions. I would like to hear more practical information from the RCN and the BMA, and also from the medical ethics council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11205,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11205,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 418978,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 418984,
      "EditedText": "Could I clarify how long evidence taking will last?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C418986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 418986,
      "EditedText": "I wish to apologise in advance: I have to leave at 10.30 am."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 418992,
      "EditedText": "You will know that we heard evidence last week on the bill, and that many of our questions related directly to aspects of medical treatment, which is dealt with in part 5. We have asked you here because you represent organisations that are taking a rather different view from that advanced by the Scottish Executive as to the impact of some sections of the bill. I propose to allow 45 minutes for this part of the committee's proceedings. I ask the witnesses to forgo making presentations. I assure them that all committee members have read the written submissions, and wish to ask questions on what has already been put forward. You may decide among the four of you who is best placed to answer the questions.I ask Tricia Marwick to begin. You had specific concerns last week, which you put to the witnesses then, and you probably want to explore them now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 418994,
      "EditedText": "The main concern is about putting nutrition and hydration under subsection (2)(b). The setting up of a feeding tube, peg tube or whatever is covered by paragraphs (a) and (c). The effect of putting nutrition and hydration in paragraph (b) is to make food and fluids themselves medical treatment as opposed to the tube or mechanism for delivering them. We are not so much concerned about doctors refusing that treatment as we are about section 47, which covers proxy decision makers refusing it. They have the power under that section to refuse medical treatment. If food and fluids are included in the definition of medical treatment, they are given the power to refuse them. I will now pass you over to Dr Philip Howard, because he is a consultant gastroenterologist and has a particular slant on the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 418995,
      "EditedText": "The first thing to make clear is that there is no ethical obligation to provide food and fluids to a patient who is in the process of dying. It is usually not the practice in hospices, or with dying patients, to place drips or insert tubes, because it is normally regarded as unduly intrusive, unless it is to provide comfort to the patient. The situation is completely different if the patient is not dying. If fluids are withdrawn from such a patient, it is not a question of whether that might cause their death—it will cause their death. Therefore, we are very concerned that the provision of hydration and nutrition, however administered, is to be regarded as medical treatment, in the sense that it can be refused. If it is refused to a patient who is not in the process of dying, it will cause their death. The denial of fluids to a patient who is not dying is, in my opinion and, I am sure, in that of Dr Chalmers, barbaric. It is an uncomfortable experience to deny fluids and to cause a patient to become dehydrated. If any member of the committee does not believe that to be the case, do not take any fluids for two or three days—a normally hydrated person, if deprived of fluids, will take 12 to 14 days to die of dehydration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 418999,
      "EditedText": "I have one more point. It was suggested that all that the bill—or the act—will do is to regularise the existing situation and clarify existing practices."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 419000,
      "EditedText": "No. I think that Dr Chalmers and Dr Howard have a view on that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 419002,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to come back in, Trish?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 419006,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone want to pick up on that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 419009,
      "EditedText": "Would not putting everything in the hands of the doctors create a new problem, as the person appointed by the adult with incapacity would have no say?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 419011,
      "EditedText": "How would you like the procedures to develop?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419013",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 419013,
      "EditedText": "Could you talk me through those amendments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 419020,
      "EditedText": "Part 5, section 47(6)—is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 419023,
      "EditedText": "Are you referring to your own amendment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 419030,
      "EditedText": "And additional medical advice, if necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419040",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 419040,
      "EditedText": "As doctors, we are concerned about who is accountable for medical decisions. Because of our knowledge and because of our experience of making such decisions, we are in a good position to make decisions. In civil law, and according to our professional code of conduct, we are liable and accountable for our decisions.Whatever decision is made about the care of mentally incapacitated persons, whoever makes it should be as responsible and accountable as the doctor. In practice, that means that if an attorney disagrees with the doctor—as he might—it is up to him to prove that his refusal of treatment is medically appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419042",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 419042,
      "EditedText": "Or his insistence, as this will—as you rightly say—work both ways. Some attorneys will refuse treatment for the patient. We are concerned about nutrition and hydration, but there are other forms of treatment, such as insulin for diabetics. We are also concerned that attorneys may insist on over-zealous or relentless treatment. Because of a doctor's experience, his knowledge of medicine and of the patient's condition, he will be in a good position to make such decisions, especially because, as a professional, he is detached from the patient. However, an attorney or a family member—particularly if they are dealing with sudden or terminal illness—may be emotionally involved and not in the best position to make such a decision. If I, as a doctor, make a decision, that is my personal, professional and civil responsibility. However, an attorney who makes a decision that is perceived as causing or leading to the death of a patient is in a difficult position, in so far as they will have to live with that decision for 20 or 30 years. There may be criticism from other family members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 419044,
      "EditedText": "Because of his qualifications and experience, the doctor should decide what—in medical terms—is in the best interests of the patient. Whoever decides whether the treatment takes place should be accountable and responsible for that decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 419047,
      "EditedText": "Who would you prefer to make that decision, the doctor or the attorney?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 419051,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to understand who you would prefer to take that decision. In other words, who should give consent in the place of the incapable adult: the doctor or the attorney?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 419057,
      "EditedText": "I think that it was Dr Howard who raised that point and I would prefer to pass it to him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 419058,
      "EditedText": "If a patient is dying from a terminal illness, the provision of food and fluids may not be appropriate and may even be regarded as intrusive. When a patient is not dying, the withdrawal of fluids in particular will lead to the patient's death."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Deighan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 419068,
      "EditedText": "To deem it to be of benefit to remove hydration and nutrition is the Law hospital scenario, but—under the bill—without the court scrutiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 419072,
      "EditedText": "The position is that Law hospital—in a difficult case; no one denies that—introduced the prospect of passive euthanasia for PVS patients. The trouble is that it established the principle that it was all right to starve to death an incapable person who was not otherwise dying. As John Deighan says, the bill enables that principle to be applied to any incapable patient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 419082,
      "EditedText": "Your organisation contains a large number of doctors and others who are closely associated with the medical profession. Your submission describes the current position and suggests that doctors have to follow strict rules on the treatment of incapable adults. Is it your view that we should stick with the status quo rather than pursue this legislative process?Your document says that the proposals could allow an unscrupulous or inexperienced doctor to collude with others. Given that you recognise that there could be unscrupulous doctors, are you suggesting that the status quo could advantage unscrupulous doctors—perhaps with a view to experimentation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 419085,
      "EditedText": "I went on to say that we recognised that the vast majority of doctors, relatives and carers and so on would be completely scrupulous and would want only the best for the incapable person. The purpose of legislation is to deal with people who do not rise to that standard. It is true that there are some unscrupulous people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 419086,
      "EditedText": "In any profession."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 419087,
      "EditedText": "Is it fair to say that you are, in general, in favour of the bill, but that you want an added level of responsibility injected into it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 419090,
      "EditedText": "I accept that medical opinion must reign supreme in emergencies. There is no question about that and I do not think that that is what the bill is trying to address.Given the advance in technology, do doctors feel comfortable with the role that is expected of them in making judgments about sustaining life where some might say life is not sustainable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 419094,
      "EditedText": "I am just asking you about this. At present, there is no priority in the bill. Simply inserting a duty of care for the welfare attorney will create a conflict unless priority is specified. Which would you like to be the priority—the duty of care or the present and past feelings of individuals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 419099,
      "EditedText": "I am not happy about this—I realise that it is now on the record. The bill would not allow such a situation to arise, so it is misleading to mention it. I am not happy that that is left on the official record without some comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 419114,
      "EditedText": "Do not do it, because you have said it already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 419123,
      "EditedText": "I see that everyone is here. We have Mrs Joyce Lugton and Mrs Micheline Brannan from the civil law division of the Scottish Executive justice department, and Norman Mcleod and Andrew Brown from the Scottish Executive office of the solicitor. Welcome to you all.The general comments remain the same for this bill as for the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. We are considering the principles of the bill, not specific details and amendments. We will return to specifics at a later date. I know that it can be difficult to separate the two, but I fear that occasionally we start going down a line of questioning that is best left until stage 2.We will press on to questions because of the time constraints. I have some indication of the issues that members wish to raise. There are general issues that members are concerned about. Christine Grahame, who is trying to open her papers, wished to raise a point about absolute ownership, which you will be aware is of concern to many organisations, because by removing the feudal superiors and taking the ultimate owner out of the equation, a system of absolute ownership is being introduced. Christine, you wanted to talk about the role of the Crown."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 419131,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone else wish to contribute on the role of the Crown?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 419137,
      "EditedText": "We can understand that desire, but on that matter I will make two points. First, in looking at the feudal system as it is now, it is not clear that the Crown has an existing role as ultimate feudal superior in preserving the public interest. It is hard to find where that role is exercised and to find examples of it, except possibly the maritime burdens, which the Scottish Law Commission has made recommendations about.Secondly, in so far as the Crown carries out public activities in this country, it is usually through the activities of public authorities such as the Government, local authorities and so on. The planning system—the public law system whereby the use of land is regulated—is not affected in any way by the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 419145,
      "EditedText": "This matter can be re-examined during the stage 1 debate when ministers are present, and in the course of the committee's detailed consideration of the bill. Even if we are not able to commit ourselves now, a better indication may be given later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 419146,
      "EditedText": "With the caveat that, as long as it is not in the bill, the date can be changed in the future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 419148,
      "EditedText": "Would it not be possible to put a line in the bill to say that, on the day that the bill is enacted, the appointed day will be two years hence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 419149,
      "EditedText": "Anything is possible in primary legislation, provided that it is within legislative competence. It is open to debate whether that would be the best way in which to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 419153,
      "EditedText": "I am not an expert on contaminated land, but I can say that, although the bill contains a provision for the prohibition of commercial leases that are longer than 125 years, soundings are still being taken on that issue. On the period of time, there is room to come and go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 419155,
      "EditedText": "The bill sets the period of 125 years. Amendments to the bill could be lodged on that subject. Representations would still be received."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 419156,
      "EditedText": "Will the Scottish Executive make recommendations on that in due course?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 419157,
      "EditedText": "Through our advisory process, we will make ministers aware of all the different views that have been expressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C419159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 419159,
      "EditedText": "What is meant by the continuation of the feudal system by other means? Papers that I have read suggest that that should be avoided. What is the problem with that, in practice, if contracts are entered into in a free and open manner?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 419160,
      "EditedText": "I shall begin to answer that question, but will invite my colleagues to contribute, as the issue is rather technical. It is possible to lease land on a long lease, such as 999 years, although, in practice, nobody foresees the possibility of the lease reverting to the landlord. The conditions that are imposed by the landlord are therefore the all-important aspect of the lease. It is not the ultimate repossession of the land—the length of the lease is essentially regarded as perpetuity—but the conditions that are imposed by the landlord that matter. The situation is therefore almost like feudal tenure. Feudal tenure is selling in perpetuity, but subject to conditions that can still be enforced by the original granter and his successors. I invite my legal colleagues to chip in at this point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C419166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 419166,
      "EditedText": "You use the word temptation. I do not accept that there is anything wrong with a leasehold arrangement. The worry must be that there will be disparity between opportunity in England and in Scotland, because we will create two different kinds of framework. Is the Executive assessing whether any commercial disadvantage will result from the different arrangements that have been proposed for Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C419168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 419168,
      "EditedText": "I would like to return to this question with other witnesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lugton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 419171,
      "EditedText": "Following the informal briefing, we discussed this with the Scottish Law Commission. The commission said that it had not done any specific research into the amount of feuduties remaining, but it believed that most of them related to tenement flats and that the sums involved were likely to be very low—in the region of £2 to £5 per flat. The commission thinks that most other properties affected will be premises occupied by businesses, which are likely to have been located there for a long time. However, there will be some individual houses for which feuduty has not been redeemed and which may well be occupied by elderly people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 419175,
      "EditedText": "There is evidence that that is happening at that moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 419179,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to answer all those questions. There is a package, but I want to clarify the situation. Title conditions and real burdens are the same thing. The Scottish Law Commission published a discussion paper on real burdens, which are basically the conditions attached to the holding of land. The commission has now decided that, although the consultation was on real burdens, the name used for the report and draft bill will be title conditions, so the draft bill on real burdens will be called the title conditions bill. That reduces at least two entities to one.The work that was done on the law of the tenement resulted in a report and draft bill before the general election. The Scottish Law Commission is not pressing us to implement the bill on the law of the tenement at the moment, because it feels that once it has finished the work on title conditions, it will be able to simplify the provisions that are being recommended for law of the tenement, which is really just a subset of the title conditions that can apply to any property. Tenements are just a particular kind of property, and have a particular subset of title conditions to do with common facilities and so on. We accept, therefore, that it is sensible to wait until the bill on title conditions has been published before doing anything about the law of the tenement.The package consists of, first, a bill on the abolition of feudal tenure, then a bill on title conditions and, finally, a bill on the law of the tenement. Leasehold casualties are a slightly different matter. Nothing we do in those three bills interacts with leasehold casualties and nothing in the leasehold casualties bill will interact with the other bills. Having said that, however, leasehold casualties can be regarded as part of the package in the sense that the law of property in Scotland will be tidied up and cleaned of anachronisms only after the leasehold casualties bill has been enacted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 419182,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful to hear from the Scottish Law Commission on long commercial leases. In its sixth programme, it will be considering leasehold, and I understand that it intends to consider long residential leases. However, I am not sure whether it was planning to consider commercial leases. Some of my colleagues may know about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lugton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 419185,
      "EditedText": "The feudal bill will be enacted first and parts of it will be commenced to allow the administrative work to start, but part of it will not be commenced until the title conditions act is also in place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 419188,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that, but we are being presented with a bill that turns out to be not a bill in its own right, but one third of a set of linked bills for which there is an overarching programme and procedure that have not been presented to us before today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 419189,
      "EditedText": "The alternative to proceeding in that way, which I agree is not ideal, would have been to delay the introduction of this bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 419192,
      "EditedText": "There are two points to make about the 100 m rule. First, as that rule is a detailed provision in the bill, it is open to later debate. The Executive does not have a closed mind about any of the detailed numbers or quantities in the bill. Secondly, a procedure outlined under section 19 of the bill enables burdens that do not fall under section 17's precise definition to be preserved either by agreement between the superior and the vassal or by application to the Lands Tribunal.The question about the 51 per cent or two-thirds majority is very detailed and could be debated later. However, we do not feel that it is a fundamental principle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 419193,
      "EditedText": "What are the principles behind the issues of compensation in the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 419194,
      "EditedText": "Two areas of the bill provide for compensation. The first is where the superior loses the right in future to demand feuduty. My legal colleagues will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the compensation formula that has been provided is based on the existing formula under which redemption of feuduty is compulsory for properties that have been transacted in since 1974.Compensation is also provided for development value burdens. A superior might gift or considerably undersell a piece of land to the local authority on the condition that the land was used for a community centre. That local authority might later want to sell on that land to a developer for a housing development. The Scottish Law Commission has recommended that compensation should be paid to the superior for the development value that has been lost as a result of selling land for a particular purpose that is then sold on for a more lucrative reason. Such compensation is provided for in a different section of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 419195,
      "EditedText": "Do you agree with the suggestion that an allowance should be made for a feuduty that has not been collected for several years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 419196,
      "EditedText": "Although that is not provided for in the bill, it is a detailed point that could be open for later debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 419197,
      "EditedText": "If there are no more questions for the witnesses, thank you for coming to see us again. I invite the witnesses from the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors to come forward: Lynne Raeside, Iain Hay and Alan English. As we are pressed for time we will proceed directly to questions on the submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 419198,
      "EditedText": "You say that\"feudal burdens can play an important role in maintaining the amenity of an area\".Could you expand on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 419204,
      "EditedText": "You have emphasised that there are advantages in the bill, but we must also consider the disadvantages."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 419206,
      "EditedText": "It is altruistic to suggest that redemption values should be dropped. Instead of a redemption rate of 20 times the current valuation, you are suggesting that it should be dropped to eight to 10 times that figure. Those figures are up for review in any case and can be changed as the bill proceeds, but what is your reason for suggesting that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 419214,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that we could assist, but we would want everyone to be dealt with on the same footing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 419216,
      "EditedText": "That is correct. That situation prevails in many other areas of legislation connected with the feudal system, but this is the one that we particularly wanted to highlight."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 419226,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 519.0,
      "ContributionID": 419229,
      "EditedText": "Are we not dealing with the community burden in the neighbour burden?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ContributionID": 419230,
      "EditedText": "The community burden will not necessarily be abolished, but the proposed legislation presents an opportunity to amend it. Currently, amending a burden, or a condition in the titles for a group of properties in a development, requires 100 per cent agreement of all proprietors. That is a major problem. In my management practice, I am aware of only one case in 30 years where such a change has been made. Once the opportunity to alter and amend those burdens under the proposals has gone, we will not get it back. We must be sure that it is worthwhile before we remove it. That is why we are concerned about a simple 51 per cent majority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 527.0,
      "ContributionID": 419233,
      "EditedText": "The next point you make is about sales. You link that to the fact that the balance has to be paid within 42 days and suggest that that provision should be extended to cover the sale of a property by a vassal. Should the solicitor not have a duty to get that done? Someone who is selling their house has all sorts of things on their mind and 42 days seems too short a time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 529.0,
      "ContributionID": 419234,
      "EditedText": "Yes, anyone would expect their solicitor to do that. I am sure that that is what happens in practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 419237,
      "EditedText": "The current situation is that the duty should be settled at the point of sale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 419242,
      "EditedText": "As registration of title develops, so will the situation improve. It is amazing how many local authorities claim not to own a property when asked to pay feuduty on it and then, two years down the line, when they find out that they can build a hotel on it, claim that they do own it.In the meantime, the superior, who might be trying to tidy up his feuduty situation, is left in a no-man's land. Improved land registration and improved information on property ownership will lead to the situation not being as much of a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 419243,
      "EditedText": "You have some views on the time scale for the introduction of the bill, particularly in relation to converting feudal burdens to neighbour burdens. What do you think the time scale should be for the bill coming into force?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 419244,
      "EditedText": "We are concerned about the situation as regards large estates and large public authorities. They will have to go through all their titles and property holdings to identify where there are matters to be covered. Our concern is that two years could be insufficient time to do everything. It will be expensive and require time, legal and professional advice and the inspection of properties to ascertain whether anything relevant needs to be covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 419251,
      "EditedText": "It is possible that institutional investment in properties would diminish. I am not saying that it would, but that is a possibility. If an institution could lend on a 100 year lease or a 150 year lease, it would probably choose the 150 year lease, wherever it was."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Callander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 419259,
      "EditedText": "It seems that there was some confusion earlier. It is not being proposed that the Crown be given any new powers or burdens. The Executive witnesses were wrong to suggest that the proposal might involve expense.Through the Crown, the public already hold the ultimate ownership of land in Scotland that is held under the feudal system. Therefore, there is already a public interest in all land. The bill should ensure—the wording should do it precisely—that ultimate ownership, the various other prerogative rights and rights that attach to either sovereignty or to the paramount superiority, which cover all land in Scotland, are not affected in the abolition of the Crown's rights as a feudal superior of particular lands. The role of the Crown to act for the public interest exists in the ultimate ownership of all land. This is not a question of creating new rights and thereby incurring expense in any way.The previous witnesses talked about how the public interest could be served by planning permission or by statutory law. The significance of this issue in the longer term is twofold. First, if one abolishes willy-nilly rights that we cannot specify—there is no clarity in our legal system as to what rights would be abolished by abolishing all paramount superior rights rather than specific ones—there will be unknown consequences. Secondly, the Scottish Office and the Law Commission were ambiguous in saying initially that they intended to create a system of absolute ownership. That was modified to say that the new system of land ownership that the bill would introduce would be one of outright ownership. The policy memorandum now describes it as a \"system of simple ownership\". I am not sure quite what we are setting out to do. The danger of creating a system of absolute ownership is that, by getting rid of the Crown's ultimate ownership of all land in Scotland, we would abolish that public interest. That would expose us to an American-style situation in which, in cases relating to public interest legislation, people are in a far more powerful position to claim compensation from the legislature, which would mean that public interest legislation could be constrained in the longer term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wightman (Land Reform Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ContributionID": 419265,
      "EditedText": "The European convention on human rights allows the state to take certain measures if that is deemed to be in the public interest. That public interest test will be tested fairly soon in the courts in response to legislation emanating from this Parliament. It would strengthen the position of the legislature in Scotland if, rather than exercise public interest through statute and public law—as currently represented by the Crown—a clearly articulated public interest were embodied within the land tenure system.The danger of getting rid of the Crown in this context would be that that public interest defence would be unavailable to the legislature, which will almost certainly want in future to legislate in various ways on how land is owned and used. A move towards a more absolute system strengthens the hands of those who have the rights under such a system, whether it be you or I with our private dwellings, or large estates or corporations. It is a matter of political principle that we should not throw away an important locus of the public interest within the tenure system—if we did, it may come back to haunt us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andy Wightman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 596.0,
      "ContributionID": 419267,
      "EditedText": "There has been talk within the broader land reform debate about, for example, standards of land management and how bad landowners will have their land taken away. Clearly, that is not going to happen, but there will be instances when the legislature wants to take action to protect amenities, for example, or to increase the burdens on landowners to protect the environment. In such circumstances, the legislature will—quite naturally—be challenged by those whose interests are affected.If the legislature does not have a public interest defence within the land tenure system—if it cannot say, \"Excuse me; ultimately we are the owners and so can change the terms and conditions under which you hold title\"—its case will be weakened.The USA provides a pertinent example of what happens when a country has an absolute system of ownership—and that system has existed only for a couple of hundred years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 602.0,
      "ContributionID": 419270,
      "EditedText": "So how do you propose to express the public interest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Callander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 604.0,
      "ContributionID": 419271,
      "EditedText": "May I attempt to clarify matters? In consideration of the principles of the bill, the issue that arises relates to the stated intentions of the bill. It is the stated intention of the Executive and the Scottish Law Commission in the draft report not to affect the rights of the Crown, other than the rights that it shares with other paramount superiors. The bill's wording does not achieve that. Those hypothetical questions need not be confronted—the bill can be reworded to make it accurately achieve its intentions.The principal issue is that the treatment of the Crown should be fair. The bill includes saving provisions for the Lord Lyon's powers, which are not even within the jurisdiction of the Parliament. The inclusion in the bill of a provision to the effect that the Crown's rights, other than those that it shared with other paramount superiors, were also saved would avoid the problem, which is now of widespread concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 612.0,
      "ContributionID": 419275,
      "EditedText": "You are saying that we should be careful to ensure that it is stated explicitly that the Crown retains ultimate ownership, although we are taking away some of the rights that it would have had as a superior? Should that be done explicitly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Callander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 633.0,
      "ContributionID": 419285,
      "EditedText": "The Crown should have certain rights over the whole of Scotland. It would not have rights in your half acre that were different from the rights that it holds on behalf of the Scottish people over all Scotland's land. The significance of that is that the sovereign rights about which we are talking—the prerogative rights as well as the paramount superior rights—relate to the identity of Scotland as a territory and the jurisdiction of the Parliament. The Scottish people might consider that the Parliament, in its democratic role of representing them, should have a responsibility to protect its interest in the land of Scotland as a whole—not feudal rights in particular plots of land."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Callander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 637.0,
      "ContributionID": 419287,
      "EditedText": "The exertion of statutory influence is within Parliament's power but, as has been explained, statutory legislation can result in compensation for landowners. If the landowners have relative ownership of the land, the proposals for the way in which land is owned will be undisturbed. However, if the Crown retains ultimate ownership, the balance of compensation will be different.The point is not that something new should be introduced but, as the convener said, that the fundamental principle of the act as it relates to the Crown should specify exactly what is being abolished."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 639.0,
      "ContributionID": 419288,
      "EditedText": "I thank you for coming. We have had your written submissions, which made clear the areas that you were concerned about. Many issues that were raised today have been taken on board. I ask Professor Rennie to come to the table. Thank you for coming. I am sorry that you have been kept waiting and that we are pressed for time. You are here on behalf of the conveyancing committee of the Law Society of Scotland. Would you like to take a minute or two to say something about the bill in general?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 651.0,
      "ContributionID": 419294,
      "EditedText": "So you are not interested in retaining any aspect of public interest? Who would represent the public interest in land issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 657.0,
      "ContributionID": 419297,
      "EditedText": "Not in the feudal system. The Crown exercises the public interest through the Government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 684.0,
      "ContributionID": 419310,
      "EditedText": "Professor Rennie has clarified the very point that I was going to ask about—whether it would be better to consider the backward-looking Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill with the title conditions bill that will legislate on future arrangements. Do you agree that some difficulties might be caused because it is only at this stage in our consideration of the first bill that we have discovered that there is to be a forward-looking bill? Would not it have been better to have had sight of that bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 686.0,
      "ContributionID": 419311,
      "EditedText": "That would have been better. I have had the benefit of sitting on the working party with the Scottish Law Commission both on the abolition bill and on the title conditions bill. Indeed, we are to meet again in December, to consider the responses to the consultative document on title conditions or real burdens. In a sense, I have been living with both bills and it is therefore easy for me to have a broader view. It must be difficult to take the broad overall view that must be taken if one has seen only one bill, especially where the former superiors have reserved rights to enforce the 100 m rule, for example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 690.0,
      "ContributionID": 419313,
      "EditedText": "There is absolutely no possibility of solicitors' fees being reduced. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11205,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11205,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 418979,
      "EditedText": "Members received the Official Report of the previous committee meeting only this morning. I tried to obtain it yesterday afternoon in advance of this morning's meeting, because the evidence that we took last week has a direct bearing on what we will hear this week, and it would have been helpful if members had had the opportunity to look through the proceedings from last week and to establish areas on which they might put specific points to witnesses today. Unfortunately, the report was not available, and I know that that is because of the official reporters' current enormous work load. However, I do not think that the committee ought to accept the situation without making some protest. As Phil Gallie frequently points out, we have a very heavy work load: we are taking evidence on two bills and, from one meeting to the next, our previous proceedings will obviously colour how we approach the next set of witnesses. It is essential that we are in a position to examine carefully the evidence that we have already taken before we proceed with the next set of questions.With the committee's agreement, I, as convener, want to write to the Presiding Officer, pointing out that the resource problems of the Official Report are now creating difficulties for the way in which committees work. It is an issue that needs to be resolved, whether by more staff in the department of the official report or whatever. I do not think that it is reasonable to continue in the fashion that seems to be developing. Do members agree that I should write to Sir David Steel along those lines?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 418993,
      "EditedText": "As Roseanna said, I was putting specific questions to witnesses last week. They concerned section 44, which refers to nutrition and hydration. I put it to the witnesses that some of your submissions stated that subsection (2) would allow doctors to withdraw nutrition and hydration. That might bring about the death of patients who were not already dying. Those questions were answered by the Executive, but I would like to hear from you exactly what you think are the implications of that subsection."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 418998,
      "EditedText": "Section 47(2) shows that far from there being any safeguard, the reverse is true. Section 47 takes authority away from a doctor to treat a patient in a case where a proxy decision maker refuses consent. Subsection (2) goes on to say that, if the doctor disagrees with that decision, he can appeal to the Court of Session against the refusal of treatment by the proxy decision maker."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 419001,
      "EditedText": "I wish to address the question of clarification as, far from clarifying the situation, the bill muddies the waters considerably. Such decisions are not normally made in a vacuum. They involve discussion with welfare attorneys, relatives and members of health care staff. Decisions in most cases will not be contentious—the way ahead will be perfectly clear. However, in the most difficult cases, the welfare attorney—or whatever other proxy is envisaged—will be given the authority to refuse treatment that might well be considered essential by the medical people involved. A specific example is of a patient who is terminally ill and who has been receiving good pain relief. That patient fractures a femur through an area of cancerous infiltration and is in extreme pain that cannot now be controlled. The only reasonable means of controlling that pain would be to carry out surgical fixation of the femur. According to the bill, if either the patient, in an earlier statement, or the welfare attorney refuses that treatment, they are perfectly at liberty to say, \"No. Surgery is not to be done. Anaesthetic is not to be given.\" If that decision were made, the patient would be condemned to pain that could be relieved almost completely within a fairly short time. That is a medical decision which I believe cannot be made by someone who is going either by the opinion of the patient or, indeed, by their own perception, which has heavy subjective and emotional elements. Only someone who has the knowledge, the experience and the judgment to know the right way forward can cut through the situation. My main problem with the bill is that, in such decision making, responsibility will fall upon people who have least background upon which to draw in making a right and objective decision, as opposed to a subjective decision based on their own opinion or on the patient's previous opinion. That is my problem: the person upon whom authority rests has the least experience and knowledge, yet is given the responsibility for what I call the executive decision.  That is where I see a difficulty. If there is to be no responsibility upon that person, they will be answerable to no one except the incapacitated person who is, by definition, incapable of dealing with that answerability. While there is no duty of care on that person, a doctor has a duty of care and is responsible to the General Medical Council and, indeed, to the law. If a doctor makes a bad decision, he will have to answer for it. Is a welfare attorney answerable to anyone for such a decision? Will a welfare attorney have a duty of care?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 419005,
      "EditedText": "That would not be sufficient to answer our general point, as the issue of benefit has been slightly clouded by common law. That is where the Law hospital and Bland cases are probably relevant. In those cases, it was viewed as a benefit to deny food and fluids and to cause the death of patients in a persistent vegetative state by starvation and dehydration. The application of the common law definition of benefit on its own is now problematic. However, a duty in relation to omissions could be inserted—I think that that is the main problem with the bill. Such a duty to do or to consent to what is necessary in the circumstances to safeguard or promote the physical and mental health of the adult could be inserted. That duty is incumbent upon the doctor, in terms of the bill. The problem with the bill is that the power to make medical decisions is being taken away from the doctor and given to someone who does not have that duty. That is the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 419012,
      "EditedText": "We drafted amendments that we thought would cover the point that there is no duty of care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 419014,
      "EditedText": "Yes—they are in our main submission. We have tried to be as least obstructive to the general principles as possible. We have accepted the idea of proxy decision makers, but they should be subject to appropriate safeguards. That is at the root of the problem. Our first proposal is to remove the reference to nutrition and hydration from section 44(2)(b)."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 419015,
      "EditedText": "I ask members to guard against getting too involved in discussing potential amendments, as we are not yet at that stage of the bill. At this stage, we are required to draft a report on the principles of the bill. We will come back to an examination of potential amendments, which I do not want us to get too bogged down in if we can avoid it. Scott, we have begun to talk about proxies and liability. I think that you wanted to come in on that area, as did Ben Wallace, and that it is time to bring you in now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 419017,
      "EditedText": "Yes. However, I will cover section 1 first, which was mentioned by other witnesses who gave evidence. I have only looked quickly at their evidence, so I apologise if I misquote them. However, I understand that those witnesses said that the general principles in section 1 would protect incapable adults. I think that they were talking about section 1(2), which John Deighan alluded to earlier and which states: \"There shall be no intervention in the affairs of an adult unless the person responsible for authorising\"—in our case, that would be the proxy decision makers—\"or effecting the intervention is satisfied that the intervention will benefit the adult and that such benefit cannot reasonably be achieved without the intervention.\"Our problem with that subsection is that an intervention is not defined in the bill. An intervention is defined in the dictionary as an action. The explanatory note for the subsection refers to anything that can be done—or something to that effect. We are talking about protection against actions that will not benefit the incapable person. There is no protection in the general principles against refusals, or decisions not to act, that will not benefit the incapable person. We do not think that section 47(6) contains sufficient protection, because we cannot envisage that it is likely that doctors in busy psychogeriatric wards in Inverness will be able to go to the Court of Session. Interruption."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 419019,
      "EditedText": "I beg your pardon. I am referring to section 47(2)."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 419021,
      "EditedText": "No, section 47(2). I beg your pardon. I quoted the wrong subsection number."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 419022,
      "EditedText": "It is an amendment that you proposed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 419025,
      "EditedText": "It is in part 5 at page 29."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 419026,
      "EditedText": "Section 47(2) is in part 5. It states that doctors may go to the Court of Session if they do not agree with a welfare attorney's decision or that of another proxy decision maker to refuse treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 419027,
      "EditedText": "May I comment on that?The permission to apply to the Court of Session may well inhibit the doctor concerned from pursuing a course of action that will undoubtedly be expensive and time consuming. He may feel it easier and less disturbing for his department, as well as for his staff and even for other people, simply to collude with a decision with which he does not necessarily agree completely. It is easier to agree than to take difficult action. It is time consuming and expensive if the only redress is to apply to the Court of Session. I think that many doctors, being human, would prefer to avoid that action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 419028,
      "EditedText": "I agree. There is a conflict in the duty of care if the doctor has to go to the Court of Session. As a remedy, would you suggest that it should be the other way round—that, if the proxy or the welfare attorney disagreed with the doctor's duty of care or medical prescription, that person should have to apply to the Court of Session?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C419032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 419032,
      "EditedText": "When things break down and end up in court, would you rather that the doctor had the right to appeal against the word of the proxy decision maker?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Deighan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 419035,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 419037,
      "EditedText": "In our amendments, we did not propose changing that provision, as we think that it is sufficient to propose a proper duty of care and leave it to those involved to sort it out. If somebody has a duty of care, they will have to take medical advice in order to make a proper decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 419039,
      "EditedText": "Whether an intervention is of benefit would be covered by the general principles. Ventilation—which is an intervention—would be covered adequately by the bill; we do not have a problem with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 419041,
      "EditedText": "Or his insistence on treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 419048,
      "EditedText": "We return to the concept of how a decision is made. The idea around this room seems to be that one person will make a final decision. That is not how medical care works. The first procedure is to find out the facts, which may include the perceptions of relatives, the preferences of the patient and a range of issues other than the condition and its treatment or the cessation of treatment. The decision is not simply taken by one person."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 419049,
      "EditedText": "We understand your point that information should be taken from a number of sources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 419050,
      "EditedText": "An executive decision must be made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 419053,
      "EditedText": "No, not yet. You talked about hydration, and I think that Dr Chalmers referred to situations in which consent is needed for an operation. Those are two different scenarios—medical treatment and sustenance. Do you think that applying the duty of care, as you have described, would solve problems that could arise in both those situations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 419054,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I was asked to talk about protection and did not get as far as section 73, which covers the duty of care. Shall I explain why I think that the section does not give a duty of care and why it would make all the difference? I do not have a problem with the concept of asking a friend or relative to make medical decisions. The difficulty is that the duty—as there would be on the doctor—is not spelled out, so what we would be giving power without responsibility. Section 73 deals with limitation of liability. It is back to front—not the way that one would expect to see a provision on liability. It says:\"No liability shall be incurred\"by a proxy decision maker \"for any breach of any duty of care\"—which is not spelled out in the bill—\"or fiduciary duty owed to the adult if he has . . . acted . . . or . . . failed to act\"reasonably and in good faith.That is insufficient, as it limits liability for breaches of duties that are not spelled out. The problem is that, if there is a criminal omission under criminal law or negligence under civil law, before somebody can be prosecuted or sued for a breach of duty, it has to be proved that they have a duty in the first place. Under the bill, somebody could not be prosecuted for refusing or omitting treatment—or omitting to make a decision about treatment—as there is no duty that they could be sued or prosecuted for breach of. The bill removes the protection of civil and criminal law. That is why, in our amendments, we have tried to turn it round and say—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 419060,
      "EditedText": "The withdrawal of fluids, even in the case of PVS, is done with the intention of causing the death of the patient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 419071,
      "EditedText": "Is your general problem that you see common law going in one direction and you want the bill effectively to stop it going where it looks like it is going?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 419074,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 419077,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that removing nutrition and hydration from the definition of general medical treatment would go some way to removing the problem that you perceive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 419079,
      "EditedText": "Would giving proxies that duty of care and removing hydration and nutrition from the definition of medical treatment go some way to allaying your concerns?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 419080,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 419081,
      "EditedText": "The definition of medical treatment in the bill is all-embracing. It includes medical, optical and nursing procedures and treatment. We would distinguish between medical treatment—medical, surgical and dental procedures and treatment, which are designed to safeguard the health of the patient—and nursing care. In the bill, nursing care—whose function is to promote the dignity of the patient through such things as hygiene and cleanliness, and to safeguard their well-being and comfort through such processes as hydration, psychological support, palliative care and so on—is included in medical care.We strongly believe that there is a standard of care—broadly speaking, nursing care—that ought not to be refused patients. There is a standard that every patient, even incapacitated patients, has a right to expect and that nurses have a duty to provide. Ambiguity is caused by lumping together medical and nursing care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11207,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 419083,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to propose amendments that do not damage the general principle of asking other people to make decisions on one's behalf but that put in safeguards to allow that principle to operate safely. I think that the second point was on whether there are unscrupulous doctors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 419084,
      "EditedText": "Your document says that there could be unscrupulous doctors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 419088,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we want it to safeguard and protect incapable people to the same extent as they are protected now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 419089,
      "EditedText": "That said, there is a lot to be said for the status quo, not least because cases rarely come before the courts—the public must be in broad agreement with the way in which the profession behaves. Our concern is the responsibility and accountability for decisions, regardless of who makes the final decisions.As doctors, we are also concerned with the practicalities. For example, when a patient comes into hospital with a head injury, the doctor has to make a decision. An anaesthetist managing an intensive care unit has to make decisions several times a day—day or night. Neurosurgeons or consultants in intensive care may do ward rounds once or twice a day and have to make daily decisions. Will the bill mean that the surgeon, anaesthetist or physician must contact the attorney every time a decision is made? As for responsibility, a consultant on duty has to have a bleep and be available; will the bill mean that an attorney, too, will have to make himself available, attend ward rounds and meet doctors frequently?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 419091,
      "EditedText": "Medicine is becoming very complicated. It seems that you will place a very onerous responsibility on attorneys. I am trained in gastroenterology and general medicine, but would feel uneasy about making decisions about neurosurgical, burns or trauma patients, for example. Attorneys, who will usually have no medical responsibility, will have to make such decisions, which are not only professionally but emotionally demanding for doctors. To turn the question around, are we prepared to allow such an onerous responsibility fall on the shoulders of attorneys? We need to bear in mind that practical consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 419096,
      "EditedText": "There is a serious problem. An incapable patient is by definition incapable of making a decision on their present wishes about the treatment on offer. Could I refer quickly to a case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Kearns: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 419098,
      "EditedText": "It is the case of Marjorie Nighbert in Florida in 1996. I have a cutting about the case that I can leave with you—I was worried about copyright so I did not copy it. Marjorie Nighbert appointed her nephew, I think, as her welfare attorney. A few years previously, while watching a television programme showing someone being tube fed, she had said to her nephew that she did not want to be tube fed. When she had a stroke and was taken into a nursing home, and a decision had to be taken, the welfare attorney refused consent to feeding. At one point Mrs Nighbert clutched the arm of a nurse and begged to be fed and given food and water. The case had to go to court to decide whether she had the capacity to overrule her previous directive. The court decided that she did not. I will leave the cutting with you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 419103,
      "EditedText": "We are not trying to establish priorities for one person over another. We are trying to give to each person concerned an equal responsibility for their decisions. If one takes into account—as one should and as, medically, one does—the feelings, opinions and perceptions of the patient, relatives and everybody else, one must weigh them in relation to the situation as it is. If there is any priority, it should always be the patient's welfare and best interests, the promotion of their health and the maintenance of their comfort and dignity. We need to get that right. We are not setting one person against another; we are seeking to concentrate the care of medical and non-medical people on the person."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 419106,
      "EditedText": "I did not put that as a question.I want to wind up this part of the meeting. I appreciate that people may want to say further things. You are at liberty to follow this up with further written submissions. The Official Report of last week's meeting is now available, so you can read the evidence that was given then. The evidence that you have given this week will be part of the Official Report of today's meeting and will be taken into account when we produce our draft report, as will written submissions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 419110,
      "EditedText": "Can we agree that we will write to those organisations and individuals and ask them to comment in writing on some of the issues that have been raised?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 419112,
      "EditedText": "No, we do not have time.Is anyone concerned about asking for those submissions? We will write to them and ask them to respond as quickly as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 419115,
      "EditedText": "Christine makes a valid point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 419117,
      "EditedText": "Other people could give evidence, so why impose a time scale?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 419118,
      "EditedText": "The time scale is imposed on us; it is not of our choosing. We need simply to deal with it. Because of the extensive consultation that has gone into the production of both the bills that are before us, there is less requirement for us to take evidence. However, we can address that issue in future. I appreciate the points that are being made—they are being felt by everyone—but we have to move on and do the best that we can, given the circumstances.We will write to all those organisations and ask them to respond as quickly as they possibly can. The responses will be circulated to everyone immediately.Committee members should bear in mind that it is legitimate for them to follow up matters individually, as well as doing so officially via the committee. If members wish clarification on particular issues, they are free to seek it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 419122,
      "EditedText": "It is not planned that we will see witnesses, but we can address that issue. Undoubtedly, many submissions will provide background information to the amendments.We need to move on, because time is slipping."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Micheline Brannan (Scottish Executive Justice Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 419125,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, the Crown has a conceptual role as the ultimate feudal superior, but how much that role leads to practical consequences differs from case to case. The bill specifies that the Crown's feudal rights will be abolished while leaving its prerogative rights untouched. The approach that was taken was to treat the Crown like any other superior; therefore, the bill specifically abolishes the feudal rights of the Crown, except in the case of enforcing maritime burdens because there was no other way to ensure that somebody would be able to enforce them.It is difficult to see how, in practice, the Crown could represent the public interest in relation to land. It might mean the creation of significant public rights, in relation to which the Crown's role would be one of enforcement. That could have resource implications. Concerns about the Crown probably largely reflect concern about the use of rural property. It is not clear why people want to argue about the Crown's role with regard to urban property, for example, tenement flats, which are affected just as much by the feudal system as are rural estates. In any case, throughout the country, owners' use of land is already limited by planning laws. The planning system creates conditionality about the use of land and, in our view, preserves the public interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 419132,
      "EditedText": "Christine covered what I wanted to know. Perhaps we should question the people who are advocating the retention of feudal rights for the Crown because we already know the position of the present witnesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 419134,
      "EditedText": "Could I ask a question that follows on from Christine's questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 419138,
      "EditedText": "Do you wish to follow up that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 419141,
      "EditedText": "I wish to raise that issue during the submission from the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 419142,
      "EditedText": "When is it anticipated that feudal tenure will be abolished, because it is not in the bill? Evidence was given to us that, effectively, there would be a two-year waiting period before the actual abolition. Is that still the case, and why was it decided that no date should be set out in the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 419144,
      "EditedText": "From what you say, if this bill is passed in its current form, there will be uncertainty about when the date for abolition will be. You are effectively admitting that, even if a date is agreed upon, it might change, which introduces a level of uncertainty into the proceedings, does it not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 419147,
      "EditedText": "There is always a risk of change. However, I am sure that ministers would want to choose a date that was feasible, and would not choose a date with the intention of changing it. That would not be good practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C419150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 419150,
      "EditedText": "That would at least give us an opportunity to debate whether two years from the enactment of the bill would be an acceptable target date. If there is no mention of a date in the bill, there can be no debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 419152,
      "EditedText": "Section 65 of the bill introduces a prohibition of leases for longer than 125 years. Do you think that any restrictions will follow from that for the development of land, considering the strict environmental laws that now exist, and responsibilities for contamination?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 419165,
      "EditedText": "I will have to be careful here, as I will probably end up expressing a personal view. However, if people can structure things in a way that is most favourable to them, there will be commercial pressure to do that. If people feel that they can achieve a control through leasing that they cannot achieve in another way, I suspect that there will be a temptation for them to choose that option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 419169,
      "EditedText": "That is perfectly okay.I have a general question. I remember that, at the informal briefing that we received at the end of August, there were expressions of concern about the possibility that superiors might rush to reclaim the last vestiges of whatever feuduty they thought they could get out of people. We were concerned to establish whether there had been an attempt to estimate the number of people who might find such bills dropping through their door. Were you able to examine that issue and to come up with an indication of what the position would be, particularly in the run-up to the appointed day, whatever that happens to be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 419172,
      "EditedText": "We were concerned specifically about the prospect of elderly people on tiny incomes suddenly getting bills through the door, as superiors attempted to catch up on unpaid feuduty that had not been claimed but was going to be collected before the appointed day. We do not have much clue about how widespread that may be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 419176,
      "EditedText": "We were concerned that, once the implications of this bill for superiors became apparent, they would attempt to maximise their economic position where they could."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 419178,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add to Christine's point, which is a fair one. We are advised that this bill is one in a series of linked bills that will achieve the ultimate end. We have been told that we can expect not only a title conditions bill, but bills on real burdens, leasehold casualties and, as I understand it, the law of the tenement. Given that, how does everything fit together? Appearance is being given that this legislation is only the first piece of the jigsaw. I have a rather mischievous question. Is not the whole point of delaying the appointed day due to the fact that people know that other pieces of legislation will need to come into force, otherwise we will get in a muddle?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 419186,
      "EditedText": "It would have been helpful to the committee if the situation had been made clearer in regard to the three linked bills that are to be presented at various stages. We are proceeding on the basis of having to consider one bill, but we know that it will be part of a wider context that, so far, has not been presented to us, either in written or in oral form. That is unfortunate.I now go back to my rather mischievous question, which may not sound at all mischievous now, but absolutely spot on. The bill is before us but a lot of it will not come into force. Do you agree that the reason for that is not so much technical as caused by the need to wait until other legislation slots in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 419187,
      "EditedText": "That is partly fair and partly not. It is certainly true that this bill must wait for the title conditions bill, but that is not because we are inefficient and could have done it much faster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 419190,
      "EditedText": "With respect, that is not the point that I am making. I understand the position that you are in. My point is that we have to discuss one third of the whole thing with you telling us that there is a reason why this bill is being done this way now but that other things will also affect it and be affected by it. There has been no presentation from the Executive about the overall question, and that is our concern. We are concerned that we will have to deal with this bill knowing that there could have been a better presentation of where the bill fitted into the overall pattern of legislation.We have to wind up the session with these witnesses very quickly. Does any member have any further questions for them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 419200,
      "EditedText": "Would that case not be covered by the 100 m rule?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 419202,
      "EditedText": "What about aspects that are protected within feus in terms of planning? Should there be a handover period in which the feudal conditions should be part of planning conditions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 419203,
      "EditedText": "I refer you to a case dealt with by the Lands Tribunal—Pender v Sibbald Properties Ltd—in connection with a building in Glasgow where there was a title prohibition against using the property as a restaurant. Planning permission was granted but the superior objected to it. The outcome was a brave decision by the Lands Tribunal: that it could be a restaurant but not one that produced strong cooking odours. The planning system does not always cover all aspects. In another very lengthy case, Ferguson v Burnside et al in Kilmacolm, the owner of the property was prohibited from building a house or allowing his hedges to grow higher than 5 ft. He allowed his hedges to grow higher than 5 ft and argued in the tribunal that, because of that, people who might be offended by his new house could not see it. Planning permission was granted for a house but the Lands Tribunal threw it out, saying that the conditions had to be adhered to. That illustrates the difference between planning conditions and the superior's conditions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.208046+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 419208,
      "EditedText": "What is your view of the issue that we heard being canvassed earlier about the length of commercial leases, which is covered by section 65? Do you have any comments or concerns about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 419209,
      "EditedText": "We have considerable reservations about the 125-year lease. The primary reason is that the developer needs to fund the development of offices, shopping centres or whatever and funding may not be granted. I think that 125 is a borderline figure. Anybody who suggested a 100 year lease would not get funding. I think that if there has to be a figure—we do not think that there needs to be one—150 to 200 years would be more appropriate.I would like to make two other points. First, the people who are likely to suffer are not only the developers, but the institutions, which would affect pension funds. Secondly, there are many instances where contracts are in place to undertake development of land in phases. A development may have six phases and the developer will have agreed terms with the owners of the ground and their funding sources at, say, 150 years. There is then a trigger time at which those leases kick into place. If those times are after the act comes into force, there will be severe problems for developers. I suggest that that can be dealt with by legal means, but I caution against setting the term at 125 years, full stop."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 419211,
      "EditedText": "Let us take as an example a development of sheltered housing where there is an obligation in the original contract between the developer and the purchasers that becomes a deed of conditions or a community burden for the developer to provide services such as warden services. The developer builds the property and sells to the first purchasers to move in. He has a contractual obligation to those first purchasers and it is our understanding that that obligation will be retained after the passing of the act. The problem arises when one, or the majority, of the original purchasers has sold. A community burden is then set up. Under the proposed legislation there will be an opportunity for all the people who have purchased to vary that community burden. For example, they may vote not to have a warden any longer. However, the initial purchasers still have a contractual cross-over with the original developer and that may create difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 419213,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 419218,
      "EditedText": "I do not foresee it exploding. The majority of long leases are ground leases and the majority of ground leases are leases by public authorities, which, for policy reasons, do not want to dispone ground."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 419219,
      "EditedText": "I agree. I do not think that that will be a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 419221,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The Forestry Commission is a good example, and large local authorities put restrictions on use in shopping centres and industrial estates for good reasons, because management functions may not fall within planning legislation. In my view, those bodies have a duty to ensure that they are acting correctly, and they need time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 419222,
      "EditedText": "One problem that has arisen from the bill is the risk that legislators may believe that the planning system will cover the abolition of the feudal burdens and feudal conditions. Planning considers the public interest and the larger picture—whether something fits into a locality. In contrast, the feudal system deals with personal matters, which are perhaps not relevant to the public, but which are extremely relevant to the private situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C419223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
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      "ID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 419223,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the comments you made about sheltered housing. The number of housing complexes could present a real problem. One of the problems is the requirement to maintain services. A second problem is the loss of control—for those who live in the properties—over management costs. Do you have anything to say about linking the two things—to preserve services and control the costs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 419224,
      "EditedText": "We are concerned that people who are less able to fight their corner, because of age or disability, should be protected and that those services should be maintained for them. As has been said before, we do not have an administrative answer to the problem. It is a matter that is worthy of considerable research and debate. We just want it to be resolved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 419227,
      "EditedText": "Are you concerned that that will no longer be the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 523.0,
      "ContributionID": 419231,
      "EditedText": "You make many references to compensation in your document and you seem concerned about it in several contexts. Regarding the vassal paying back to the superior, we have heard that you would like the redemption factor to be based on a multiplier of between eight and 10. You then go on to talk about the instalment scheme and you are mindful of the burden that might fall on the vassal, particularly in cases of financial hardship. You recommend that, in cases where payments can last for 10 years, the period should be reduced to three years. That seems to be a big jump."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alan English: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 525.0,
      "ContributionID": 419232,
      "EditedText": "Our concern about the 10-year period is that, in effect, the abolition will simply be deferred. There will never be a payment. It is almost like saying that, in 10 years' time, we will no longer pay feuduty. Someone being compensated for the loss of an income requires the payment of a sum. We agree that you cannot insist on that sum being paid all at once. We believe that if it were to be paid over three years, at half-yearly intervals—the way feuduty is currently paid—that would be reasonable. We should bear in mind that under the current proposals of 20 payments, a £1,500 payment is comparable to a £75 feuduty. A £75 feuduty would be attached to a fairly valuable piece of property. From that point of view, the repayment should be reduced from the proposed 10 years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Hay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 419245,
      "EditedText": "We are not suggesting that the bill should not proceed; we are saying that there should be longer for such bodies to deal with the next stage. We heard some of the debate when the previous group of witnesses was here. When a superior, in connection with a developer, wants to serve a notice to reserve a development right, that is also part of the exercise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C419248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 419248,
      "EditedText": "You said that you do not believe that the leasehold commercial market will develop dramatically. Is there any point in section 65? Why not just leave it out? Are we worrying about something that will never be of real concern?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C419250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 419250,
      "EditedText": "Do you foresee any disadvantages in the property market if there is not that flexibility? Do you think that Scotland is at a disadvantage compared with England and Wales, which is what has been suggested in some of the submissions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C419252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ContributionID": 419252,
      "EditedText": "I understand that what you are saying about brownfield sites is that the longer the ground lease, the more attractive the site is. If it is restricted, and the market value falls, there is less chance of redeveloping a brownfield site. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 571.0,
      "ContributionID": 419255,
      "EditedText": "I ask the witnesses from Scottish Environment LINK and Land Reform Scotland to come forward. We are running behind time. Please bear in mind the fact that we are considering the principles of the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill and keep questions directed towards that. At stage 2, we will look at specific issues in terms of amendments.I welcome John Digney and Elizabeth Leighton from Scottish Environment LINK, and Peter Gibb, Robin Callander and Andy Wightman from Land Reform Scotland. As we are extremely pressed for time, there is no possibility that all five witnesses will be able to respond to every question, so please designate one of your number to respond to each question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 573.0,
      "ContributionID": 419256,
      "EditedText": "You suggest retaining the Crown as a way of protecting the public interest. When that point was put to the Scottish Executive, it replied that that would recreate the feudal system. What is your response to that? The Scottish Executive says that, in this context, the Crown serves no useful purpose and that it cannot see any point in retaining it. Can you convince me otherwise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 419258,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the idea of the Crown as absolute superior changing its role so that it can act as a public guardian of the land—I believe that you are interested in that idea. In the Highlands, there is great concern about land use and management. How would that concern by allayed by that new role for the Crown? According to the Executive, the Crown would not just be left as ultimate superior, but would have to be given a new role as a public guardian. Furthermore, how would the change impact on urban areas? The control of land use might give rise to benefits in rural areas, but what about in the country as a whole?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2236735+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Leighton (Scottish Environment LINK): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 419261,
      "EditedText": "Our briefing outlines several points where we believe that the policy memorandum is thin on detail and does not include sufficient information for the committee to give the bill detailed consideration. The issue of the Crown is just one example.The Scottish Executive is, as you know, required to take account of sustainable development as well as the impact of legislation on island communities and so on. The policy memorandum states, in one simple line: \"The Bill has no effect on sustainable development.\"I find that incredible. The bill is about Scotland's land—that means our natural resources, land or sea. Surely what we decide in this bill about how that land is to be owned and used will have a fundamental effect—positive or negative—on sustainable development in Scotland.The Scottish Executive could be asked to provide further detail on how it came to its conclusion. If it is true that the bill has no effect on sustainable development, I wonder whether we want this bill. Do not we want bills that will foster sustainable development for our future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 419262,
      "EditedText": "You made the specific point that the bill may lead to the Government having to pay compensation to landowners—if landowners have to implement conservation measures, for example. Robin Callander alluded to the general issue of compensation, but how do you see that circumstance arising from the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Leighton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 419263,
      "EditedText": "As you can imagine from my accent, I have some experience of how the land ownership system works in the United States. There, the issue of compensation for private landowners who are affected by public interest regulation has reached the point where it has a stranglehold on Government bodies. That is true when the US Congress, state legislatures and federal agencies try to enforce, or even develop, legislation that will act in the public interest, whether for environmental or health and safety reasons. The system has become so expensive that it has limited the ability of public agencies and Government to introduce such regulation. The situation may even be exacerbated in the United States by a further strengthening of landowners' rights.I think that it would be a mistake for Scotland to go down a similar route without first carefully considering exactly what kind of land ownership system it wants to create. That applies not only to this bill but—as we heard in the previous evidence—to successive bills that will fit together in the overall context of land reform.The objective given in the policy memorandum is that the new system of land ownership will be simple and uncluttered. Is that sufficient explanation to tell us whether the new system of land tenure will deliver sustainable development?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 419264,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone from Land Reform Scotland want to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ContributionID": 419268,
      "EditedText": "But the United States is different, so I am not persuaded by the analogy. I find it difficult to envisage a situation in which someone could be blocked, at the moment, from doing something because of legislation, but in future the courts would say, \"We can no longer block that because the Crown is not the ultimate superior.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Callander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ContributionID": 419274,
      "EditedText": "No. We are not talking about introducing anything. You will know—and it is stated in the Scottish Law Commission's reports—that the ultimate ownership of all land in Scotland that is in the feudal system rests with the Crown. We are not trying to abolish the Crown's ultimate ownership, nor has that been the stated intention of the Scottish Law Commission, as far as one can tell. However, because of the way in which the draft legislation is worded, it could be construed that the intention is to abolish that interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Callander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 619.0,
      "ContributionID": 419278,
      "EditedText": "In theory, yes. I was slightly put off by your use of the word title."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Callander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 623.0,
      "ContributionID": 419280,
      "EditedText": "The Crown does not, in a sense, formally have title to land."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 627.0,
      "ContributionID": 419282,
      "EditedText": "Are you not basically keeping the feudal system and getting rid of only a few of the powers? The point of the feudal system is that everything is held from the Crown. What it does in between, and what the powers are, is all up for grabs. If the position of the Crown is left—as you want it to be—the feudal system is retained, albeit with some powers removed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C419284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 631.0,
      "ContributionID": 419284,
      "EditedText": "Why should the Crown have any right whatever over my half acre?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Robert Rennie (Law Society of Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 641.0,
      "ContributionID": 419289,
      "EditedText": "The Law Society of Scotland is broadly in favour of the bill and its principles, which are to abolish feuduties in their entirety as land burdens, subject to payment of a redemption compensation.We are also in favour of a system of ownership—call it absolute, simple or anything you like—that is not in strata.We are in favour of the proposals to retain certain burdens that might be enforceable after the appointed day by a former superior who satisfies the criteria that are set out in section 18 and others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C419292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 647.0,
      "ContributionID": 419292,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but I do not think that that is what was said. It was clear that Land Reform Scotland wanted to abolish the superiority rights, but the Crown would be left with prerogative rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 659.0,
      "ContributionID": 419298,
      "EditedText": "Can you see any practical benefits in Robin Callander's proposals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 661.0,
      "ContributionID": 419299,
      "EditedText": "Frankly, I cannot see any benefits."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C419300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 663.0,
      "ContributionID": 419300,
      "EditedText": "What about the compensation for environmental legislation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 665.0,
      "ContributionID": 419301,
      "EditedText": "I could not see how the Crown was supposed to intervene. The Crown acts through the Government. Robin Callander seemed to suggest that the Crown would somehow oppose its own legislation or have some powers of intervention. I could not see how that was intended to work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 671.0,
      "ContributionID": 419304,
      "EditedText": "Will you comment on Elizabeth Leighton's evidence about America, where the idea of absolute ownership has meant that companies are able to extract compensation if environmental obligations are to be placed on the way in which they use the land? I realise that we are talking hypothetically, although in America it is no longer hypothetical. Further down the line, will a similar set-up develop in Scotland if that form of absolute ownership is introduced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 673.0,
      "ContributionID": 419305,
      "EditedText": "The Americans work under a completely different system of jurisprudence; I would not pretend to be an expert on that system. They have a written constitution that enshrines certain rights, such as the right to bear arms. We have no such constitution—there are no enshrined rights. We are fettered right, left and centre by laws relating to land use. I cannot see how some new right to compensation would arise if it were not already provided for in legislation because, instead of holding land from the Duke of Hamilton and thence from the Crown, we would have absolute, simple ownership. I cannot see why that change would make compensation claims more likely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Rennie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 680.0,
      "ContributionID": 419308,
      "EditedText": "I sat on the working party of the Scottish Law Commission when the abolition of leasehold casualties bill was drafted. That bill does not affect the feudal system, nor does it affect title conditions; it concerns leases and, in particular, long leases. When something goes wrong and somebody tries to get something from somebody else because of land, everybody blames the feudal system and says that it is time that we got rid of it, but the leasehold casualties bill is a separate matter. The title conditions bill is closely linked to the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill. The Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill looks backwards, at the feudal system as it used to be. The title conditions bill looks forwards, at the burdens and conditions and their status after the abolition of the feudal structure. With a feudal system, the superior is the focal point of ownership and of the enforcement rights. When the feudal superior goes, the new bill will have to consider who in future will have the right to enforce—be they neighbours in a neighbour burden or members of a community in a community burden. One bill looks back and dismantles the old system. The new bill looks forwards. I see the benefits of taking the two together. The appointed day, whenever that is, must be carefully considered. Both bills should probably come into effect on the appointed day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C419309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 682.0,
      "ContributionID": 419309,
      "EditedText": "Professor Rennie, you have managed to clarify how the bills work together and I thank you very much for doing that simply and briefly. If you will bear with us for a few more minutes, there are one or two small questions before we close the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.2393004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C419315",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 143
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    "Time": {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting continued."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419124",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 419124,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I am beginning to think that this meeting is like a Kenneth Reid tutorial. He is a professor in the faculty of law at the University of Edinburgh and has an interest in conveyancing, which was not my strong point.With regard to the Crown, several of the submissions that we received raised questions with regard to the dangers of abolishing the ultimate superiority of the Crown, and the matter of the Crown acting in the public interest. Do you think that those fears are unfounded, can you provide clarification on the Crown's role in the feudal chain, and how much of that role will be removed by the proposed act?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 419184,
      "EditedText": "Are you talking about enactment at the same time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 419191,
      "EditedText": "The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors has raised a couple of questions about sections 17, 18 and 19 on converting feudal burdens into neighbour burdens. The body has concerns about the definition of \"human habitation or resort\" and the strict application of the 100 m rule to both urban and rural areas, which can be very different.Secondly, on section 22 about the reallotment of real burdens and the conversion of feudal burdens into community burdens, the institution raises the question of whether 51 per cent is a reasonable majority to carry such a decision and suggests that a two-thirds majority might be better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 419210,
      "EditedText": "You appreciate that, as we have been told by the Executive, some of the detailed matters about percentages that you have raised will be dealt with at another stage of the bill. I want to mention a point from your submission that has not been raised before, and I would like you to give us a simple example to illustrate your point of view. I suspect that the kind of rights that would previously have belonged to the feu superior will turn into landlords' rights with the development of leases in Scotland. Section 73, \"Saving for contractual rights\", states:\"As respects any land granted in feu before the appointed day, nothing in this Act shall affect any right (other than a right to feuduty) included in the grant in so far as that right is contractual\".Your explanation on page 7 of your submission states that you are concerned about\"potential difficulties in the contrast between saved contractual rights and obligations . . . and the superior's abolished rights and obligations\".You then give examples such as sheltered housing and developers or builders selling properties on particular estates. Can you give me an example of what such contractual rights and obligations in the deed of conditions would be? They could be quite onerous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 419215,
      "EditedText": "I can see what you are saying. The contract is a personal contract between the developer and the first purchaser and it does not pass to subsequent purchasers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 419217,
      "EditedText": "Do you foresee an explosion of leasehold tenure in Scotland with the abolition of the feudal system? Will people buy 99-year leases in Scotland, as they do in England, rather than have freehold tenure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 608.0,
      "ContributionID": 419273,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to follow this, but it is a bit esoteric for me. Convention has always been a great mystery to me.What you are saying is that, if the section were changed, the Crown would have an interest and title to appear in Scottish courts to assist on behalf of the Scottish people. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11208,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ID": 11208,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 625.0,
      "ContributionID": 419281,
      "EditedText": "I meant title and interest assumed in terms of the courts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 419061,
      "EditedText": "Should it never be done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 419063,
      "EditedText": "I see. It is an area in which definitions—dying, for example—are difficult. On the general principles, section 1(4) says that account shall be taken of certain factors in\"determining if an intervention is to be made\".Intervention has not been defined; are we accepting that it means the administration of nutrition and hydration by artificial means?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C419111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2385
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11207,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 11207,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 419111,
      "EditedText": "We should put it to the rest of the committee to ask how members feel.Can we have a break?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 241248,
      "EditedText": "If I may respond, I recall that we wanted to seek information on whether receipts would be included and that, if they were not, we would want to specify such inclusion. The footnote—unfortunately it has slipped over to the next page in this draft—asks that question. If members want that requirement to be explicit, we can easily change the wording to \"This document will set out general expenditure including income\" or, \"including receipts.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 241249,
      "EditedText": "An explicit statement would make matters clear for everyone who reads the document in future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 241254,
      "EditedText": "The wording will be, \"This document will set out general expenditure and receipts.\"In paragraph 7 on page 3, the draft agreement states:\"Normally the Scottish Ministers will present their proposals to the Parliament by 30 September\".In fact, the standing orders refer to the proposals being laid before Parliament no later than 20 September. We must delete \"30 September\" and insert \"20 September\". I do not imagine that that will cause any problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 241261,
      "EditedText": "I have drafted it so far. We will probably discuss that later. The agreement will be open for discussion between the SPCB and us; there is no suggestion that it will be imposed on us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 241262,
      "EditedText": "Will the SPCB debate the matter then get back to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241267",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 241267,
      "EditedText": "Are members prepared to accept the situation on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 241269,
      "EditedText": "Are there any further points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 241276,
      "EditedText": "Mr Davidson's point is different. His suggestion is that the date be fixed to 14 February. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 241277,
      "EditedText": "I want it to state that the bureau \"will timetable a debate\" prior to 14 February, not \"will endeavour to timetable a debate\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 241278,
      "EditedText": "So you want it tied to a date. Elaine's point, however, is that the matter could be accommodated if the document said \"as soon as possible\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 241280,
      "EditedText": "Those are two different points of view. Are there any others? Should we tie the date down as tightly as David has suggested?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241284",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 241284,
      "EditedText": "It is not clear what would happen if the bureau, having endeavoured to timetable a debate prior to 14 February, failed do so; it has only five days."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
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      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 241286,
      "EditedText": "Should we say that \"the Parliamentary Bureau will timetable a debate no later than 19 February\"? That would fit in with the time scale."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241296",
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      "ID": 1400
    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 241296,
      "EditedText": "The second item on the agenda is a matter that I discussed with the clerk, Sarah Davidson, and relates to the discussion that we had last week on amendments to the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill. When we discussed our view of the bill and the amendments that we might pursue, it was agreed that I would move an amendment on behalf of the committee, relating to the figure of £50 million, which we thought should be uprated annually. It was my understanding—although reading the Official Report there is no formal decision—that that was the view of the committee; I would be surprised if members disagree. When I moved the amendment at the next meeting I thought that I was doing so on behalf of the committee. I thought that it was inappropriate for Keith Raffan to move an amendment that sought to do something different. I do not mean to be too hard on you, Keith."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241297",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 241297,
      "EditedText": "Not at all."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241298",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
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      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 241298,
      "EditedText": "I also thought that it was inappropriate for Richard Simpson to indicate his support for Keith's amendment, in preference to the committee's amendment. I must emphasise that I am not coming in with a heavy stick. We need to clarify where we stand when, in discussing a bill, the committee agrees to pursue an amendment that I, as convener, move on behalf of the committee. In my view, that binds the committee to the decision and individual members should not put alternative views. If members have other views, they should be made clear in the debate. Without spelling it out, I am sure that there are ways and means of ensuring that an amendment that seeks to do something different from the committee's decision could be lodged by someone other than a committee member.There is a second, wider issue. We must consider what happens when parties are unhappy with an amendment that the committee has agreed. Are we, as committee members, bound by a committee decision, even if our parties instruct us to vote against something because it is not in line with party views? Those are issues that need to be clarified for our work in the future. There was little difficulty last week, but in future we need to be clear where we stand and what the implications of such decisions are. Do members have views on the matter?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241302",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
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      "ID": 130
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 241302,
      "EditedText": "The amendment related to a technical point. Admittedly, I should have given a percentage of 0.3 repeater, rather than 0.5, if the amendment was to reflect directly £50 million at 1999 prices. I was trying to make the amendment less clumsy.I am against committee amendments. If there is a committee amendment that has a majority, that is fine, and the convener is perfectly entitled to move it, but the minority must still be allowed to propose an alternative. In other words, an amendment can be deemed to be a committee amendment only if it is unanimously supported. I do not want to undermine your authority, convener, nor was I trying to do so last week. We are trying to get the best possible legislation. We are not in private session, so I had better not say what I was going to. However, I had indications that a percentage would be looked upon favourably. I thought that the calculation required by your figure, convener, would be too long.David is slightly clouding the issue, which is not really about receiving papers on time. You have raised a specific point, convener."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241306",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 241306,
      "EditedText": "Surely every party and every member has the chance to debate the substance of the amendment during the initial committee discussion and before we reach a committee view. Once we have come to a decision, any dissent among committee members will be a matter of public record. Everyone's position will be clear. Once a decision has been formally reached, as convener, you should be in a position to move the amendment unopposed.If, in a subsequent debate, the issue reaches the floor of the Parliament, everyone is free to put his or her own point of view. In committee, once we have had discussions and reached a conclusion, I think that the convener should be able to move the amendment on the committee's behalf."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241311",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
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      "ID": 130
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 241311,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned about Keith's point. If we are coming up with a new procedure, it should be considered in terms of all the committees, not just this one. It is worth consulting on a wider basis."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241312",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 241312,
      "EditedText": "I think that that would be helpful. I agree that there should be uniformity. Would I be right in thinking that members agree that, in future, a committee amendment should be pursued only on the basis of unanimous agreement?"
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  {
    "ID": "C241313",
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      "ID": 1400
    },
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      "ContributionID": 241313,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 241317,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the Minister for Finance, Jack McConnell, and his officials. We are going to deal with the statutory instrument that is before us. Our inquiry will take the form of a debate, which is the first time that such consideration of a statutory instrument has been given within a committee of the Scottish Parliament.First, I will call the minister to move the motion. I will then open the debate. Committee members have indicated that they would like to go through the estimates section by section, raising issues as they go. The minister has been told about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 241322,
      "EditedText": "This is more a request for information and an explanation than anything else. If I am correct in my summings, this supply estimate announces a difference in the budget of around £470 million. The difference in the budget that was announced in October was around £300 million, which arose, as you said, from the carry-over. Where does the extra £150 million come from? I am sure that it is a technical matter, but I would appreciate it if you could clarify that for me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 241324,
      "EditedText": "I think that it might be helpful to respond, because it raises a point about voted and non-voted expenditures, which I was expecting the committee to want clarified. I have been clarifying that for myself over the past six months.Traditionally, there have been voted and non-voted parts of the Scottish budget. The non-voted parts relate, in the main, to borrowing consents or to allocations that are not cash going through the consolidated fund. Some of the changes in these supplementary estimates transfer money from non-voted to voted categories. For example, when we come to discuss housing, you will see that there is a sizable amount of money that, in previous years, was allocated through borrowing consents for local authorities and others. We are now proposing to transfer that into cash grants for local authorities and through Scottish Homes. That means that in terms of the descriptions that are used, it transfers from non-voted to voted expenditures. The difference between the figures that were released in October and those that we have in front of us reflects that non-voted amount being transferred into the voted category."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 241331,
      "EditedText": "Do any members have any other comments at this stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 241334,
      "EditedText": "The minister indicated in his speech that comment might be made in the spring about future spending on agriculture. Will he clarify that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 241335,
      "EditedText": "There have been a number of announcements recently on a UK-wide basis; for example, on assistance to the pig industry. If any of those require alterations to estimates, they will appear in the spring supplementary estimates. We expect that some of them will require alterations. Those will probably be the major element of the supplementaries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 241338,
      "EditedText": "That is money allocated to committed European structural fund-supported projects, which was not taken up in the last financial year because of the timetabling of those projects but will be spent by them in this financial year. That is one of the end-year flexibility additions. It is part of the on-going programme of projects that is part of this structural funds round."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 241342,
      "EditedText": "The answer to your second point is yes.On the first point, road maintenance will, in the main, be in the local authority expenditure headings, rather than under roads and transport. The most significant change in the roads and transport heading, apart from the money—which I am sure many colleagues welcome—that has been allocated to freeze the Skye bridge tolls, and which has been included since the partnership, is £11.6 million, which is the first tranche of money as part of the extra £35 million allocated to the roads budget in the statement on 6 October. Last week, Ms Boyack announced some of the details on expenditure of that money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 241351,
      "EditedText": "I congratulate the minister on his explanation of voted and non-voted expenditure, which continues to flummox me. Could he give the committee a note to explain that in detail, because it is not something that I followed? That is the last time that I will say that to you.Could I ask for an explanation on figures J4 and J5 on the urban programme? How is that accommodated, and where is the funding to replace that coming from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 241352,
      "EditedText": "That is additional resources, which we allocated as an Executive to social inclusion partnership action teams. It was a conscious decision to allocate some of the end-year flexibility money to the priorities of the Executive. Some of those supplementaries show money that has stayed in the same departmental budget and has been allocated in this financial year, because it was not spent in the past financial year. Some of the supplementaries reflect new money; for example, the roads budget change is new money in the roads budget; it is not a carry-over from an underspend last year.This money in the urban programme is also new money. The reason that we were able to do this was that we took a conscious decision not to leave all the EYF money in the budgets from which it had come, partly because much of it was accumulated over a long period of time in many of the departments. Although the departments were able to keep last year's end-year financing, I was not willing to let them keep money that they should have spent four or five years ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 241353,
      "EditedText": "If there is nothing else on this vote, we will move on to vote 3, on education, industry, arts and libraries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 241356,
      "EditedText": "On page 16 of the supply estimates paper, the figures at E4 and E5 on industry, enterprise and training seem to show a shifting of funds. Will the minister explain what is going where?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 241357,
      "EditedText": "There are quite a few transfers. There is a transfer from the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions of almost £1.5 million, which covers funding for the Energy Saving Trust and the promotion of energy efficiency. To cover the first year of the education maintenance allowance pilot, there are Scottish Executive budget changes of £3 million. There is also £1 million this financial year to cover the first year of the aid for infectious salmon anaemia. There is an allocation of just over £5 million for EYF, which will go to a variety of the department's priorities. I understand that that includes a millennium bug training subsidy, inward investment in the Highlands and Islands, the Borders railway feasibility study, and the expenses of the Cubie committee. Those are the four main issues of interest that are covered, although there will be others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 241358,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but the question was slightly different. At E4 and E5, one shows an increase and the other a decrease, around the £40 million point. You have highlighted something that comes to about £15 million or £16 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 241359,
      "EditedText": "The figures that I just gave you cover not only E4 and E5 but E2. If one puts those three figures together, that gives a total of just over £10 million. The amounts that I outlined are spread over the three budget lines. After the meeting, I could provide more detail of which amounts come under which budget lines, if you think that that would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 241360,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 241368,
      "EditedText": "I do not know, but I will find out and let you know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 241375,
      "EditedText": "Will you expand a little on what appears, on page 20, to be a hit on national health service trusts? I do not doubt that, somewhere in the figures, there are some movements that will explain it. I am especially concerned that, with the removal of general practitioner fundholding, the trusts might have to pick up some of the support that currently comes through GPs. Where will that be funded from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 241376,
      "EditedText": "My notes are not entirely clear on that, but I think that it is a transfer from voted to non-voted expenditure. It is a transfer out of the cash accounting of the consolidated fund into borrowing consents. However, before giving that as a definite answer, I would like to clarify it. I will be happy to do so as soon as possible after the committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 241379,
      "EditedText": "Rather than my trying to describe that now, we would prefer to provide a note. We would be happy to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 241380,
      "EditedText": "That is perfectly reasonable. On page 21, under the sub-heading of \"Other expenditure outside Departmental Expenditure Limits\", appropriations in aid of £0.5 billion or thereabouts are shown for national insurance contributions. Subsequently there is what appears to be a decrease in expenditure. A note on how that happens would be helpful, because it is new to me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 241383,
      "EditedText": "No, that is all right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 241384,
      "EditedText": "We will move to vote 5 on law and order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 241385,
      "EditedText": "I might have misheard what you said in your opening statement on the drugs enforcement agency. In your statement on public expenditure on 6 October, you gave a figure of £10.5 million. In your opening statement today, you broke that down into setting-up costs of £0.5 million and £5 million a year subsequently. Could you clarify the on-going expenditure, and help me to bridge the gap between the figure of 6 October and the figure today?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 241391,
      "EditedText": "You can count on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C241392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 241392,
      "EditedText": "What are the miscellaneous services that are referred to on page 24? An increase of £27.83 million is shown. The word \"miscellaneous\" can cover a lot of sins."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 241397,
      "EditedText": "Again, that is a taking up of end-year flexibility. There was some publicity recently about EYF and the Prison Service. The amount that was quoted related to accumulated EYF from previous years, money that the Prison Service had accumulated and that we were able to disburse. The money shown on page 24 is the EYF from last year, which the Prison Service has been given permission to keep and to spend in full. There might have been some misunderstandings about that during the past two or three weeks, and I am glad to clarify it today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 241398,
      "EditedText": "We will move to vote 6, on administration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 241403,
      "EditedText": "How much more detail will be available on A1, and to what extent does Mr McConnell think that other figures are required?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 241407,
      "EditedText": "That section says that it reflects changes laid out in the programme for government. How does that relate to the archives? Are the collected works of ministers to be stored there? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241411",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 241411,
      "EditedText": "We move to vote 10, on the Forestry Commission (Scotland)."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 241417,
      "EditedText": "In view of the difficulties that the commission is experiencing as a result of the market, will the money be a grant or will it be treated as a loan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 241418,
      "EditedText": "It will be treated as an increase in the commission's financial allocation for this year, and there will be an increase next year. We do not intend to claw that money back if the commercial situation improves.We have insisted that the Forestry Commission take all possible steps to manage its budget according to the difficulties that it faces. We have not allocated enough to balance the original budget—the commission must manage some of the difficulties, although we are trying to address most of them through additional allocation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 241422,
      "EditedText": "My question is the same as that which I asked about general administration. It would be useful to know why the administration costs are being increased by 89 per cent. That is an unusually large increase."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 241425,
      "EditedText": "I would like the minister to answer a question on vote 6, which I think will be of help to us when we meet the SPCB. Vote 6 refers to the \"costs associated with the establishment of the Scottish Parliament; costs of providing continuing services to the Scottish Parliament\".Virtually the same headings appear under vote 12. Why?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 241428,
      "EditedText": "It refers to the situation before and after 1 July, but there might be some difficulty associated with the wording in the document. If further clarification is required, we will provide it as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 241430,
      "EditedText": "In essence, it is. There have always been some EYF arrangements, for example, in relation to health boards, the Prison Service in recent years and some other agencies. The comprehensive spending review and the arrangements that were introduced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer have created the practice of departmental expenditure limits and annually managed expenditures. The efforts to encourage three-year forward planning in the budget process mean that it is important to discourage people as much as possible from rushing to spend at the end of a financial year.The benefit to us under the devolved arrangements is that—although Whitehall departments can keep more of their end-year flexibility under the arrangements—we are able to keep and to redistribute the money as part of the new Scottish assigned budget each year. Almost certainly, it will mean that each year in the autumn we will need to seek additional authorisation to spend the money in the new financial year, as we are doing now. I am very keen that the arrangements that we put in place for ministers and for programme managers should encourage corporate responsibility. That will ensure that there is maximum flexibility year on year. We should try to strike a balance between the amount of money that departments in the Executive can keep if they have not spent it before the end of the financial year, and what is pooled centrally for the priorities of the Parliament and of the Executive. The Executive would be doing the Parliament and its committees a disservice if it did not create that kind of flexibility year on year. I intend that it will create that flexibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 241433,
      "EditedText": "I hope that this afternoon the chancellor will give the minister a further opportunity to practise improving the documents before the spring."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 241437,
      "EditedText": "I thank the minister and his officials for their time and for giving full answers to members' questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 241438,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:58."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6333,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6333,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 241243,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:33"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6333,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6333,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mike Watson): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 241244,
      "EditedText": "I call to order the seventh meeting of the Finance Committee. All mobile phones should be switched off and pagers switched to vibrate. We have received apologies from Richard Simpson and John Swinney. Ken Macintosh has been delayed and may not attend; he has been unfortunate enough to suffer a burglary.Members have seen the agenda, item 3 of which constitutes the committee's preliminary consideration before the minister's appearance and the debate that he will open. I suggest, therefore, that we take item 3 in closed session. In addition, it may be necessary to suspend the meeting if item 3 is concluded some time before 12 noon. In any case, under the standing orders we have to agree to go into closed session. Is that acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 241250,
      "EditedText": "The word to be inserted should be \"receipts\" rather than \"income\". Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 241251,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 241252,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 241255,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 241256,
      "EditedText": "We discussed paragraph 16 at some length. Would it be possible, or desirable, to mention timing in that paragraph? One of my main concerns in our previous debate was that the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body's budget should be considered before the Executive's budget process started. That may be covered in the written agreement between the committee and the SPCB, but it is not clear in this text."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 241258,
      "EditedText": "Has the SPCB expressed a view on the timing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 241259,
      "EditedText": "The indication is that it will be a month or so before the start of the Executive's budget process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 241263,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 241264,
      "EditedText": "What is the deadline for that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 241265,
      "EditedText": "That is still open."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 241266,
      "EditedText": "I would think the sooner the better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 241270,
      "EditedText": "I am a little unhappy about the wording on page 4, paragraph 13, which states:\"Wherever possible, the Parliamentary Bureau will endeavour to timetable a debate\".Can we not simply say, \"the Parliamentary Bureau will timetable a debate\"? \"Wherever possible\" is covered elsewhere in the document; I am unhappy, at this early stage, about allowing too much variance when we have not yet seen the roll-out of a year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 241271,
      "EditedText": "We do not need \"Wherever possible\" and \"will endeavour\"; we could certainly delete one of those expressions. Perhaps we should do that, then see how things roll out, as David put it. If we want to come back to this later—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 241272,
      "EditedText": "If we did that, we would not apply any pressure. We are establishing a firm time scale for dealing with this exercise in future. If we include times for some items, we ought to be firm throughout the programme so that we do not get into bottlenecks and end up having only two hours to make a decision such as this. A good result could not possibly be produced in that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 241274,
      "EditedText": "The point is that we would want the debate as soon as possible after the 20 days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 241279,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The debate would take place between 20 and 30 days after presentation of the budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 241281,
      "EditedText": "It is pretty tight anyway. Twenty days from 20 January takes us to around 9 February. The debate cannot take place before 9 February and it has to take place by 19 February, unless the budget bill is presented significantly earlier than 20 January. The timing is fairly well tied down. This is a minor issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 241283,
      "EditedText": "Yes. If the bill is presented on 20 January, the debate cannot take place before 9 February."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 241285,
      "EditedText": "It depends on what day of the week 14 February falls. The bureau has some flexibility—it has four or five days. I am not too fussed about the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 241291,
      "EditedText": "Should the text read \"Wherever possible\" or \"Whenever possible\"? \"Wherever possible\" seems odd; is that a typographical error or just bad English? Never mind, either will do; let us just get on with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 241292,
      "EditedText": "Do we agree to delete \"endeavour to\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 241293,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 241299,
      "EditedText": "One way to get round the problem is for us to receive papers in good time, while we are still in the Parliament, and not at the weekend when we have gone our different ways. If that happened, before we arrived at a meeting, we would have an opportunity to speak to the party to clarify any thinking and to ensure that we could agree such decisions.I agree that, where possible, the committee should be seen to be collectively responsible. However, there will always be occasions when a party manifesto promise or a particular strategy is at odds with the other views on the committee. That is a sensitive area for us to work in. If a member is away from the office, without all the papers, and something that needs to be dealt with arrives during the weekend, it is not always easy to ascertain the party line. That reinforces the need for papers to be released on a Thursday, while members are still at the Parliament. In that case it would be up to individual members to take the opportunity to deal with such party matters as they think fit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 241301,
      "EditedText": "I accept that. However, one of the difficulties that we have had is a delay in receiving papers from the Executive. That is not the fault of the clerks, but it may sometimes cause us a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 241309,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Andrew. We are on new ground. Although last week the matter was relatively technical, in future it could become more serious. It was the first time this committee had undertaken stage 2 consideration of a bill. We are making up procedures as we go along. I am not saying that the committee cannot make a decision on the matter, but I think that it should be referred to the Procedures Committee. It will affect other committees when they consider bills. It is important that committees act uniformly in that respect; we should not have different procedures.We should refer the matter to Murray Tosh, the convener of the Procedures Committee. I also agree with Andrew: for the convener to move a committee amendment, it should be agreed unanimously. We must have as open a debate as possible to ensure that legislation is as good as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 241310,
      "EditedText": "There seems to be some consensus. Would it be fair to say—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 241314,
      "EditedText": "We will not get into a discussion about the position of people who happen to be absent when a vote is taken. We will have to come back to that.I will ask the clerk to refer that matter to the Procedures Committee, indicating that we have agreed this procedure and we think that, as far as possible, it should apply to other committees in similar positions.We will now move on to item 3, which we have agreed to discuss in private. I ask those people who are not members of the committee or clerking staff to leave the room. If we finish our discussion on item 3 before 12 pm, we will adjourn until that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 241315,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 241316,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 241321,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 241323,
      "EditedText": "If you want to answer that minister, you can, but you are welcome to leave it to the end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 241319,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister. Does any member of the committee want to speak in general on the estimates? Not at this stage, it seems.In that case, we will consider the supply estimates, which we will take subject by subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 241326,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the opportunity that the minister affords us today. In your preliminary speech, you mentioned openness in the future. You said that you hoped that the explanations would be fuller in future. I think that is a direct quotation. On that point, if we examine any of the votes, the final comment starts with the words\"Amount that may be applied as appropriations in aid\"followed by a full verbal description.What we need in future is to have cash amounts shown to go with each of those streams. That would be of great assistance to this committee and the different parties in examining the fund flows through the Parliament. Will the minister consider that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 241328,
      "EditedText": "The committee welcomes that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 241329,
      "EditedText": "In regard to the second adjustment in the spring, will it be a regular occurrence that we have two adjustments per year? How do you expect that the chancellor's possible announcements this afternoon will tie in with your spending? You are more privy than we are—we are simply reading the newspaper reports—to the extra money that the chancellor possibly has available for spending throughout the United Kingdom. How will it work, if he decides to spend more in a certain area or allows for extra public spending? What will the arrangement be with you? How will you inform the committee, and what arrangement is in place to enable us to scrutinise and debate that possible extra spending?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 241332,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 241336,
      "EditedText": "We will now discuss vote 2, on local government, housing, transport, other environment services and European funds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C241337",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 241337,
      "EditedText": "Will the minister explain the increase in European structural funding that is shown? Can you explain why that has come through, and how it has come through?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C241339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 241339,
      "EditedText": "The major change in this vote is in housing. Is that related to the new housing partnerships?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 241340,
      "EditedText": "There is a change of £57.76 million in the line relating to new housing partnerships, which is the main transfer from non-voted to voted expenditure. That reflects the fact that previously local authorities undertook expenditure on new housing partnerships, using borrowing consent issued by the department. That lead to it being categorised as non-voted expenditure. This transfer will enable payment of new housing partnership grants to local authorities or via Scottish Homes. That is the intention of the department for this money this year, rather than allocating it as borrowing consent to local authorities. I presume that this is an improvement from their point of view, although I am not an expert in that field."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 241344,
      "EditedText": "That is probably an issue for the Transport and the Environment Committee and the transport department, rather than a straightforward accounting or finance issue. It is a policy matter about the balance in the programme. That is the sort of issue that the Transport and the Environment Committee will examine.In 1997, the Executive—then the Scottish Office—inherited a decimated roads programme, in terms of maintenance and new road building and road development. The initial priority was to concentrate on increasing the maintenance budget and that has happened, although not yet to a level that anybody would see as ideal.We have also allocated additional money this year for new road building; otherwise, last week's statement would have been empty. It was important for us to allocate some money to road building. The Executive is well aware of the problem of maintenance throughout Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 241349,
      "EditedText": "It is a rollover?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 241361,
      "EditedText": "I would like an explanation of figure beside the words LZ Education on page 17. What exactly are the appropriations in aid?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 241363,
      "EditedText": "To clarify, there are fewer receipts coming in from the sale of the student loan debt. The net change is positive. If there is a reduction in the receipts, how is that showing up in the expenditure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 241366,
      "EditedText": "It is being met from the UK reserve. It is not a call on the Scottish budget. It will be a call on the Scottish budget once it is in, but it has come from the UK budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 241370,
      "EditedText": "In your statement on 6 October, you announced £10.5 million for the drugs enforcement agency. You also announced a comprehensive audit of all treatment and after-care services connected with drug misuse. I have taken this up with you before, and I wondered whether you were yet in a position to let me know how much that will cost and from whose budget the money will come. Obviously, tackling drug misuse cuts across the ministries, but I presume that it comes under vote 4.As we are to be blessed with a further supplementary estimate in the spring, will you balance that £10.5 million for the drugs enforcement agency with £10.5 million more for treatment where it is urgently needed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 241372,
      "EditedText": "Audits cost money. Presumably Mr MacKay will have to clear the cost of it with you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 241373,
      "EditedText": "Unless the cost was easily accommodated in the existing departmental budget, which, to the best of my knowledge, it is.I am not quite as much of a control freak as your point suggests. Yet. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 241374,
      "EditedText": "We will encourage you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 241377,
      "EditedText": "I would be grateful for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 241378,
      "EditedText": "Of paragraphs (a), (b) and (c) on page 19, (c) is interesting but (b) is more important for us. How is the figure of £1,130,000 in paragraph (c) arrived at? How do you decide on how much has to be transferred to treat Scottish residents in English hospitals? Is there a list that gives the cost of each operation? Perhaps, rather than answering now, you could give us a note on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 241381,
      "EditedText": "It is a straight calculation by the Inland Revenue. We are notified by it of what the cost to us will be. The figures show a technical change to reflect that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 241382,
      "EditedText": "Andrew, does that deal with your point, or do you want something else in writing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 241386,
      "EditedText": "I might have made a mistake—did I say £0.5 million in my introductory remarks? And did I say £5 million for future years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 241387,
      "EditedText": "I think that you said £5 million for subsequent years, on an annual basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 241388,
      "EditedText": "To clarify: £0.5 million this year, £5 million next year, and £5 million the year after that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 241389,
      "EditedText": "Will you tell us the on-going costs of running the agency? The figures that you have just given are presumably the initial £10.5 million. What happens after that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 241395,
      "EditedText": "The allocation shown is not the annual increase in police grants; it is an additional amount of money. The amount required could not be clear in the spring, but now it is. It will cover the additional police costs for the millennium period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 241399,
      "EditedText": "A figure is included for the running costs of the Food Standards Agency, but what about the set-up costs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 241402,
      "EditedText": "It comes from the Scottish consolidated fund and has nothing to do with the secretary of state."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 241405,
      "EditedText": "Do members have anything to say on vote 7, on the General Register Office for Scotland?Members indicated disagreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 241408,
      "EditedText": "We do not plan to put the coalition in the archive yet, Mr Raffan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 241410,
      "EditedText": "That section relates to a number of changes reflecting mostly running costs of the National Archives of Scotland and take-up of EYF. I will happily provide more information on that if it would be helpful.The bulk of the money is for refurbishment of General Register House. It is fairly straightforward. In other words, it has nothing to do with the programme for government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 241413,
      "EditedText": "That is a good question, which deserves a good answer. Dr Simpson also raised that question in advance of the meeting.The change reflects the serious financial difficulties that the commission is experiencing as a result of the worldwide fall in timber prices. We had to work out by how much its budget would be short in this financial year. The committee will hear—when we discuss next year's plans on 24 November—that we have also had to allocate additional money to the commission for next year in anticipation of the same problem. We do not want the Forestry Commission to be in serious financial difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6336,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 241416,
      "EditedText": "Are there any further points on vote 10?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 241420,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 241421,
      "EditedText": "We will move to vote 11, on the Crown Office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 241423,
      "EditedText": "It results from the take-up of end-year finance. It is to be spent mainly on new information and communications technology systems that will link up the headquarters of the Crown Office with other offices around Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 241424,
      "EditedText": "We have agreed not to ask you questions on vote 12. We will have the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body before us next week, and we will raise issues with it. As you might know, we will be pursuing a written understanding between the committee and the SPCB."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 241426,
      "EditedText": "That is the result of costs that were in place before 1 July and costs that were put in place after 1 July, when the corporate body took up its responsibilities. Some of the additional costs have been met by the Executive's budget, which was responsible for all the costs before July, since when they have been the responsibility of the corporate body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 241431,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a general point. I do not—and I am sure that the minister does not—regard the document as user-friendly. Within the next couple of weeks, the minister will be coming forward with a consultation document on how in future we will consult the public on public expenditure. In view of that, it is important that such documents are user-friendly to the public. I am not sure that they are user-friendly to MSPs—they are certainly not user-friendly to the public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 241432,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that they are even user-friendly to the officials, who are among the few who understand them.It is important that we set our own standards and that we use layout and terms that are accessible. The Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill sets us on the road to achieving that, and the written agreements can take us further. The process that we have been through today is important because it is part of a learning process in which we are all involved. It would be good to use today's experience of going through a traditional House of Commons-style document to inform our discussions on the written agreements and the type of documents that we will prepare for next year.We should learn as we go along. In the spring, we will find out new things about the kind of information that is available. Although we should have written agreements, they should not be set in tablets of stone—we can improve the documentation year on year. That will benefit not only the committees, but the public who come and listen to these exciting and extraordinary debates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 241304,
      "EditedText": "Is there any way that committee members could register their dissent from a committee decision that was taken on a majority vote? Perhaps they could agree not to raise another point against the committee decision in the committee, but would still be free to raise the matter in the Parliament. In the case of a bill, they could lodge a separate amendment. I am a wee bit concerned that everyone should be totally bound by committee decisions. That is fair enough within the committee, but members need to be able to raise issues in another forum, as members of Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:20.9031771+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C241345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 241345,
      "EditedText": "On page 12, under the nationalised industries' external finance heading, there is a drop in funding for Highlands and Islands airport. What is the explanation for that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:20.9031771+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6333,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6333,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 241245,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 241246,
      "EditedText": "Item 1 on the agenda concerns written agreements with the Scottish Executive. The draft agreements have been circulated. I do not want to re-open the debate, but if members feel that anything in the drafts does not reflect their recollection of our discussions, this is their opportunity to raise the matter. Does anyone want to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 241247,
      "EditedText": "The draft agreement on the budgeting process—under the stage 1 heading on page 2—says\"This document will set out general expenditure\". I would add the words \"and income\". We discussed this point and, although it is covered elsewhere, it may not be reinforced enough here. We require that detail. An example of that will come up in the documents for discussion later today, which include a listing but not the details. What are your views on that addition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 241253,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 241257,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful if I clarify this point. It is intended that any written agreement between the Parliament—in the form of the SPCB—and the Finance Committee will include timings. We will discuss that later when we talk about supplementary estimates. The SPCB has indicated that it would be happy to include such timings, therefore our agreement with the SPCB—rather than this document—would be the proper document to cover that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 241260,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify this point, in particular the last sentence in paragraph 16? Who will draft the \"separate understanding\"—will it be the Finance Committee or the SPCB?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 241268,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 241273,
      "EditedText": "The paragraph says clearly that\"the Parliament may not vote on the Budget Bill until 20 days have elapsed from the date it was presented. The Parliament must however vote on the Bill within 30 days of its presentation.\"We could add a phrase to say that a debate must take place within that period of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 241275,
      "EditedText": "It does not, however, need to be tied to a fixed date; rather it could be done as soon as is practicable within that period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 241282,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Keith. A date—20 January—is given in paragraph 12, so the timetable is already defined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 241287,
      "EditedText": "That is already stated in the first two sentences of paragraph 13."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
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      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 241288,
      "EditedText": "In that case, why is the sentence that we are discussing—the third sentence—necessary? Is it included to give the bureau a cushion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 241289,
      "EditedText": "It is to allow time for royal assent and\"to give spending bodies as much notice as possible of their spending allocations\".That, rather than royal assent, is the crucial point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 241290,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we delete the words \"endeavour to\"—on the ground that the debate has to happen in that time scale—but otherwise leave the text as it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 241294,
      "EditedText": "Is there anything else on that? Do members agree that I should write to the minister, following the draft letter that members received with the committee papers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements",
      "HeadingID": 6334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6334,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 241295,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 241300,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, the papers arrive as soon as the clerking staff can get them out. There have been a number of occasions when information has not been available and they have been waiting for it. I take the point, but if we decide something in a committee meeting, it is sure to be well in advance of the occasion when the amendment is to be moved; there will be an opportunity to take advice on a specific point. If there were some party difficulty, that could be flagged up before the committee dealt with the amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 241303,
      "EditedText": "I am not taking that as criticism, nor am I criticising individual members. Nothing had been established and folk were not clear about it. I accept that and attach no criticism. I just thought that it was a bit odd and that we needed to formalise the procedure somehow.We are now discussing a different issue, which is whether a committee decision carries weight if it is unanimous. In my view, the majority makes a committee decision and once those decisions have been reached, individuals should not speak against them. I think that the committee generally shares that view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 241305,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. In that case, even if we reach a decision, it must be made clear that an individual is moving an amendment, rather than me doing it, as convener, on behalf of the committee. That is my point. If I am moving an amendment on behalf of the committee, it is a bit odd for another member of the committee to argue for something different. It is about how we go about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 241307,
      "EditedText": "For the record, I should emphasise that the issue is clouded by the fact that we did not take a formal decision. I simply said \"Is that agreed?\"; nobody spoke against it and so I took it to be agreed. If we formulate an amendment, it would be appropriate to record that clearly in the Official Report. If any member is unhappy, he or she should say so and then it would be put on record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Decisions",
      "HeadingID": 6335,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ID": 6335,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 241308,
      "EditedText": "The downside of George's point is that I could not go to a parliamentary debate and argue against something that, in a committee, I previously voted for, or in respect of which I had not indicated dissent. I suggest that, in moving a committee amendment, convener, you expose yourself only when the amendment has unanimous backing. If it does not have unanimous backing, it becomes a personal amendment. As convener, you are putting the position on the line by saying, \"here is the committee's position.\" An amendment has more status if it is pushed by you, and we do not want to lose that.I suggest that dissent should be recorded and that if an amendment is not unanimous there is no point in you, as convener, pushing it forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 241320,
      "EditedText": "Before you move to the detail, may I ask a general question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 241318,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for inviting me here today to debate the autumn supplementaries that I laid before Parliament on 22 October. I intend to read this speech in full, convener, because I believe that this is a serious and worthwhile occasion. Rather than making a number of political points, I want to go through this in detail.As members are no doubt aware, the autumn supplementaries are the means by which the Executive seeks parliamentary authority for the various changes in expenditure in the current year. The autumn supplementaries embody both changes in expenditure to meet the Government's priorities and a whole series of technical changes concerned with basic in-year budget management, such as transfers between votes in the Scottish Executive and between the Scottish Executive and other Government departments.There are some classification changes, bringing non-voted moneys into the votes. The pieces of paper in front of you comprise an appropriation order, which is effectively the mechanism by which Parliament will authorise the expenditure, and a booklet which sets out the details of those changes. The booklet will be printed once the order has been finally approved.I would like to point out that the fact that we are debating these changes is itself a significant departure from previous practice at Westminster. The custom there is that the supplementary estimates are announced by written answer to a parliamentary question and that is the end of the matter. The Scottish Executive is committed to greater openness in financial processes. The in-year adjustments to estimates, while in many cases purely technical, are an important part of those processes. I firmly believe that they should, as a matter of course, be properly debated. Today is the first time that that is happening, and I welcome that.We will learn, year on year, about the kind of information that should be provided to support a debate such as this—information that will be helpful to the Executive in being accountable and to the Parliament and others who will follow our proceedings. I hope that today's starting point does not prove to be an end and that, through written agreements and learning as we go along, we will improve the information provided. I hope, too, that we will manage to support both technical and policy changes with explanations and introductions. You have those here today, but I think that they might be fuller in future.This is a transitional year. We are dealing with a budget that was originally agreed by the UK Parliament. To deal with this unique circumstance, it has been necessary to devise some special, one-off arrangements. This order is one of them, and it may be helpful if I say a few words about the overall budget process for this transitional year and how this order fits into that process.The transitional arrangements were set out in the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) Finance Order 1999 (Statutory Instrument 1999 No 441 (S 25)). Under the terms of that order, the main estimates for 1999-2000 were approved before the Scottish Parliament elections. Changes to the main estimates, of which the supplementaries in front of you are an example, must be approved by both the Scottish Parliament and the Privy Council. Under statute, the changes must be approved by the Parliament on 3 December. We will then send them to the Privy Council, which will be asked to approve the changes as an order in council.As I said, this is an exceptional year. Normally, the Executive will adopt the three-stage budgeting process proposed by the financial issues advisory group and included in the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill. The new process will have significant advantages over previous practice. It will provide significant opportunities for Parliament to engage with, contribute to and scrutinise the Executive's budget proposal. It will be an open process, no longer concluded behind closed doors, and it will allow us the opportunity to engage the general public in decisions on how its money is spent.Once the budget legislation is approved, however, that is not the end of the story. The experience, not just of the UK Government but of legislatures throughout the world, is that there must be scope for some in-year adjustments of budgets. Those adjustments must deal with, for example, new policy requirements that emerge in-year and that need funding; transfers between departments to match spending to priorities; and technical adjustments such as the taking up of underspends from previous years. This is a necessary flexibility within the system that allows better management of available resources.The supplementaries that we are currently considering are an example of such in-year adjustments. We envisage one more such exercise in this financial year, which would take place next spring. There has been extra pressure this year for adjustments to in-year budgets. As I have said, the Executive inherited spending plans that were drawn up by the Scottish Office and approved under the Westminster system.The partnership agreement drawn up between Scottish Labour and the Scottish Liberal Democrats set out a new agenda, and we need to adjust spending plans to reflect that. We set out our priorities initially in the partnership agreement and then in the programme for government, which was published in September. Our priorities range across all areas of Scottish life and reflect our determination to provide a better life for all Scotland's citizens. The delivery of priorities that make improvements in people's lives is the focal point of all this activity.Our programme sets out key priorities. Top amongst them are, for education, modernising Scottish schools and raising standards and achievements. Priorities for health are to improve the health of people in Scotland and to provide a modern, high-quality, responsive national health service in Scotland. It is worth repeating that the comprehensive spending review delivered £1.8 billion of additional money for health and £1.3 billion of additional money for education over the current financial year and the two forward years. That is a fundamental demonstration of the importance that we attach to the health of the nation and to the education that our young people receive.The expenditure reallocation announced on 6 October builds on that foundation and sets out our plans for making resources available to start tackling some of the difficult issues still facing Scotland. These autumn supplementaries start the process, in the current financial year, that will in due course deliver the priorities of the programme for government.This is just a start, but it is a good start. It will, for example, deliver £4 million of new funding to support higher still; get the drugs enforcement agency up and running with £0.5 million this year and £5 million per annum thereafter; start the vaccination programme against meningitis C with about £14 million this year; begin the process of setting up the food standards agency in Aberdeen; and put new resources—£1.5 million this year—into structural and agri-environmental measures, with further support for agriculture to come in the spring set of supplementary estimates. We will also start implementing our access to the countryside proposals, through £1 million of new spending by Scottish Natural Heritage, and we will start up the warm deal, which will benefit around 25,000 low-income households and pensioners.Those initiatives are an integral part of the plans that I announced on 6 October, and the autumn supplementary is a necessary stage to ensure that we have the Parliament's authorisation to spend these moneys to deliver improvements in health and education and in the lives of the people of Scotland.I turn briefly to some of the more technical parts of this supplementary order. One of its major components is end-year flexibility. For many years, under annual budgeting, the ability of Whitehall departments to carry forward underspending from one year to the next was very limited. As part of his move to three-year budgeting, the Chancellor of the Exchequer has allowed a much greater opportunity to carry forward underspent resources. That is part of the drive to allow more strategic management of programmes. As a result, we have carried forward around £300 million from last year to this year, and underspends this year will be able to be carried forward into the next year, and so on.That is sensible, avoids end-year spending sprees, and makes for more sound financial planning. I hope that this brief introduction serves to put these proposed budgetary changes into context. I am sure that members of the committee will have comments to make. I will listen carefully to the rest of the debate and, if there are particular points on which I can respond, I will be happy to do so. I would also like to make it clear, convener, that if there are points of detail that cannot be answered in the forum of the committee today, I would like to give a firm commitment that we will attempt to do so by the time of the committee's discussion on next year's financial plans, to ensure that that discussion is as well informed as possible.The fact that we are debating these changes today is a considerable advance on past practice in terms of openness, and I welcome that. I am sure that the committee does too. The changes themselves, part policy-driven and mostly technical, are sensible, and I am pleased to move the motion that the order be approved.I move,That the Parliament Finance Committee in consideration of The Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999 recommends that the Order be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 241325,
      "EditedText": "Would any other members like to make a general statement or ask a general question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 241327,
      "EditedText": "It is intended that next year's estimates will cover that point. I hope that that and a number of other points will be clearly understood between the committee and the Executive when we move into the new system, as outlined in the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill and in the written agreements, which will be finalised over the coming weeks.We must recognise that the description of figures, the words used and the way that these figures are outlined in many ways reflect the traditional system at Westminster. It reflects, with a consistency that is desirable during a financial year, the way in which the original orders were described and placed at Westminster earlier this year. Under the transitional arrangements we are not able to change that for those supplementary estimates. It is our intention to use the new, clearer procedures, which the Scottish Parliament will expect, in the next financial year and beyond."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 241330,
      "EditedText": "We expect two sets of supplementary estimates each year. I am being told that there might be three. It is possible that we might have to authorise some moneys in the summer, after the end of the financial year, to clarify authorisations that have taken place towards the end of a financial year. The two main occasions on which supplementary estimates will be produced will be in autumn and in spring, and there may be a tidying-up exercise afterwards, in the summer.If the chancellor announces anything in today's pre-budget statement that has financial implications for the Scottish Executive in this financial year, that will have to be addressed in any supplementary estimates. We do not know whether he will announce anything that will affect future financial years, never mind this financial year. We are quite close to the end of this financial year, so I am not sure how likely it is, but we will have to wait and see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 241333,
      "EditedText": "In that case, we will now examine the estimates. I propose that we go through all 12 votes individually. If members wish to make a comment or seek clarification, please do so at the appropriate time. I do not propose to allow a lot of time on each one as I assume that members, having had the papers, will know whether they want to make a point under a particular heading.First, we will discuss vote 1, on agriculture, fisheries and environmental services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 241341,
      "EditedText": "I have two points. First, on roads and transport, can you break down those figures into road building and road maintenance? You will be aware that there is serious concern in some council areas, such as Fife and Perth and Kinross, to name but two, that road maintenance is falling behind. Roads should be renewed every 40 years. In Fife they are being renewed every 276 years.Secondly, I presume that the social inclusion partnership money is being diverted from the urban programme into social inclusion, as the figures are almost identical."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 241343,
      "EditedText": "Is road maintenance up to local authorities? They feel pressured on that at the moment. What is the Executive's response to that crucial issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 241346,
      "EditedText": "I think that that drop reflects the delay in improvements at Sumburgh. There are decisions outstanding about renewal at the airport."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 241347,
      "EditedText": "You have just answered one of the questions that I was going to ask.The other is about the Caledonian MacBrayne figure under the nationalised industries' external finance heading, which has increased by £765,000. Is that for revenue or capital expenditure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 241348,
      "EditedText": "In terms of the accounting, I do not think that it matters too much, but it is revenue. It is funding projects by Caledonian MacBrayne and independent harbour trusts projects that slipped from the previous year. In the main, it is slippage from last year's programme moving into this year. It is money that has been spent, but would have been spent last year if it had been taken up before the end of the financial year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 241350,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C241354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 241354,
      "EditedText": "On the increase of £32 million on education, I am not entirely sure what the difference is between education A and education B. Will the minister explain the difference between those? What is the £32 million adjustment for? Is there anything in the figures that accommodates the financial aid package that your colleague Mr Galbraith announced for teachers' pay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 241355,
      "EditedText": "The £32 million comprises three different elements in this financial year. To cover the development of higher still, there is an additional £4 million, which the department and the Executive believed was required. There is a carry-forward of end-year flexibility of just over £28 million to meet a variety of commitments, including the teachers' pay package. There is also a very small amount that had to be included, as an internal transfer from the administration vote, to cover the expenses of the youth parliament, which, under our new arrangements, has been transferred to this department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 241362,
      "EditedText": "Let me be sure that I get this right. The figure gives the reduction in receipts as a result of the postponement of the sale of the student loan debt, which we were expecting to happen earlier. It is being met by an agreed claim on the UK reserve, rather than by a call on something else in the budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 241364,
      "EditedText": "If there are fewer receipts, there will be more net expenditure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 241365,
      "EditedText": "Is that being met from a call on the reserve?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 241367,
      "EditedText": "That helps to explain a lot. We have been able to call on £120 million from the UK reserve. When did that negotiation take place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 241369,
      "EditedText": "Let us move to vote 4, on hospital, community health, family health, other health services and welfare food."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 241371,
      "EditedText": "The second question is a matter for my colleagues in the Executive to consider at the appropriate time. The first point is a matter for my colleague Mr MacKay, who is co-ordinating the audit. I imagine that he will inform members in the near future of his timetable. Officials of all departments are helping with the audit, which is being co-ordinated by the ministerial committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 241390,
      "EditedText": "The annual running cost is £5 million. I will be expecting to hear from you from time to time about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 241393,
      "EditedText": "It covers a variety of different elements of funding, including, for example, the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission and police telecommunications expenditure. It reflects moneys allocated for the Scottish parliamentary elections, which, because of the number of candidates and the introduction of the new voting system, were a substantial overspend to which we had to allocate additional money. Although the heading \"miscellaneous\" is in vote 5, on the police, it covers a multitude of sins. I hope that it allows us to wrap up a number of outstanding matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 241394,
      "EditedText": "The figure for police grants on page 24 seems barely to cover inflation. Have I missed something?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 241396,
      "EditedText": "On page 24, a considerable increase is shown for the running costs of the Scottish Prison Service. Does that reflect the number of prisoners, or is there more to it than that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3057976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 241400,
      "EditedText": "That figure is the set-up cost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 241401,
      "EditedText": "Is any of the money shown for administration to be allocated to the Secretary of State for Scotland, or is it all for the Executive to spend?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 241404,
      "EditedText": "I will need to consider that. I will do so and let the committee know my answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 241406,
      "EditedText": "What about vote 8, on the National Archives of Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 241409,
      "EditedText": "Some might."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 241412,
      "EditedText": "What is happening here? The limit has increased considerably. Could you provide more details?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 241414,
      "EditedText": "I was hoping not to ask you any questions, but what has happened to vote 9?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 241415,
      "EditedText": "There were no changes to vote 9."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 241419,
      "EditedText": "Has the Forestry Commission been given additional funding to deal with potential outcomes from the changes in the access rules and the management that that will require?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 241427,
      "EditedText": "I thought initially that it was a pre and post-July division, but under vote 6, the document refers to \"continuing services\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 241429,
      "EditedText": "I would like some clarification on end-year flexibility. What happened to underspent budgets in previous years? Was the money clawed back by Westminster, or was it rolled over to the next financial year? What has changed now? What has created this flexibility? Is that the result of a negotiation with the Treasury?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 241436,
      "EditedText": "That the Parliament Finance Committee in consideration of The Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999 recommends that the Order be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 241434,
      "EditedText": "If there are no further points that members wish to make, I shall put the question. The question is, that the motion be agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1400
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 6336,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 6336,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 241435,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.3214259+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5997,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5997,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 232669,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:06"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5997,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5997,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Hugh Henry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 232670,
      "EditedText": "I welcome everyone to this meeting of the European Committee.This afternoon, a delegation from Sachsen-Anhalt in Germany will attend our meeting. As we expect them to appear at about 2.45 pm, we will try to get through procedural matters first. There will be simultaneous interpretation for that item.I believe that a delegation from Fife Council is also present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 232673,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is scrutiny of European documents. I should remind the committee that our test is whether the document contains provision for legislation and whether that legislation has significant impact on Scotland. Any other matters are secondary. We need to be selective in what we examine.At our next meeting, we will have the services of Christine Boch, an EC legal affairs specialist who has recently joined the Parliament's legal office and who will assist us in technical and legal matters from here on in.The recommendation on document 295 (EC Ref No 10499/99, COM(99)372 final) is for no further action. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 232674,
      "EditedText": "The recommendation on document 317 (EC Ref No 10541/99, COM(99)352 final 99/0152 (COD)) is that the document should be referred to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 232676,
      "EditedText": "Convener, although I agree with the recommendation, I think that some more information might be useful. This is the annual report on the European Investment Fund. The second sentence of the second paragraph of the Treasury explanatory memorandum on document 337 says that since 1996, the fund\"has also provided equity support for SMEs through participation in venture capital funds.\"How much of that support is finding its way into Scotland? Do small to medium enterprises in Scotland know about the fund? Is anything being done to broadcast the information? I am not sure that this is an issue for this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 232679,
      "EditedText": "That is not the issue that is before us. We are considering a specific item on the Commission report. If there is a wider issue, we should refer it to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, to ensure that small and medium enterprises in Scotland get the benefit of the available funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 232681,
      "EditedText": "We can refer that to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee for its interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 232683,
      "EditedText": "That point has already been raised. We have addressed it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 232686,
      "EditedText": "It also says that we are awaiting \"a short briefing note\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 232691,
      "EditedText": "The recommendation for document 376 is agreed.For document 377 (EC Ref No 11025/99, COM(99)437 final), we are advised to request the Scottish cover note."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 232695,
      "EditedText": "In one paragraph, the paper involved mentions the need for the introduction of vaccine in salmon fishing. I do not know whether the vaccine contains antibiotics, but we have all heard about the difficulties of introducing antibiotics to livestock and the impact of that on the food chain and on humans. It would perhaps be worth putting this matter to the Health and Community Care Committee, so that it can examine the issue of vaccines and their impact on the food chain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 232700,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer that off the top of my head. I will ask the committee clerk to note that and I will respond once I have thought about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 232706,
      "EditedText": "We will make a note of that for the moment. There is nothing more that we can do unless we have a specific recommendation to make. For document 398 (11020/99, COM(99)444 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 399 (11146/99, COM(99)448 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 400 (11204/99, COM(99)443 final 99/0194 (COD)), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 401 (10909/99), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 402 (10925/99), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 403 (10926/99), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 404 (10927/99), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 405 (10994/99, COM(99)445 final), we are advised to take no further action, but we will send a copy to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. That is agreed. For document 406 (11022/99), we are advised to take no further action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 232709,
      "EditedText": "I do not know either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 232710,
      "EditedText": "We can send the document to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee for its information and ask the Scottish Executive to provide further detail to that committee for it to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 232714,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to get from the Scottish Executive something that explains the wider ramifications of the dispute, in case there are areas of the Scottish economy, as Winnie mentioned, that need to be considered. Having an explanatory note and the paper will raise our awareness of the issue and enable us to discuss it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2278837+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 232718,
      "EditedText": "We should not just send the document to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, but draw its attention to the fact that a previous WTO ruling had a direct relevance for Scottish industry. Our concern is that the WTO should not be able to pick us off in that way under any new arrangements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 232720,
      "EditedText": "Much as I, too, might have reservations in relation to the WTO, I do not think that this committee ought to deal with that issue. I am sure that there will be other opportunities in the Parliament for people to make comments on the matter.We have a recommendation that this document should go to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee so that it can comment on the economic situation. That is the correct course of action, notwithstanding the issues that should be debated elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 232724,
      "EditedText": "The paper has been submitted by the Department of Trade and Industry. When the clerk gets the notes back, could we have the Scottish Executive's view on this paper as well?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 232726,
      "EditedText": "If the papers that we receive do not tell us the answers to our questions, what will be the state of play regarding anti-dumping action against Norway? Will we be told in the documents? This battle has been going on for about 20 years—it comes and it goes. Action is started and then it is withdrawn and settlements are promised. Perhaps when we get bits of paper, that question might be answered on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 232728,
      "EditedText": "I would like to advise the committee regarding document 334, which deals with liability for defective products. We have taken a decision to refer this to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee for its views. I have received a summary of its views in the form of an e-mail from the committee clerk.That committee wants to bring to this committee's attention an issue about the document in relation to Scots law. They want to know whether future proposals on legislation that deals with liability for defective products will be consistent with Scots law.It is for this committee to decide what it wants to do. The normal course of action is to compile the views of another committee with the views of this committee into a letter or report from the convener of this committee. That report would be given to the Scottish Executive and to the House of Commons European Scrutiny Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 232731,
      "EditedText": "I was rather surprised when the document came back to us. I realise that there are no specialists here involved in gristling, but the raw materials are coming from Argentina, rather than from the EU. I do not know or understand what has been happening in the background, or whether there has been some sort of quid pro quo with Switzerland to permit this enhancement of its position. I am simply raising the issue. I do not know what to do about it, but I am concerned that Switzerland is getting special dispensation for a raw product—beef—that is being imported from Argentina, rather than from an EU country. Why is that happening? It beats me, and we may need to ask about it. I am not sure that it will stop us doing what we are doing, but I would like an answer to my question—although I realise that it is rather obscure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 232732,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we note the recommendation of no comment either to the Scottish Executive or to Westminster, but ask Stephen Imrie to try to get an answer from Brussels to Bruce's question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 232733,
      "EditedText": "This may not be a matter for us, but the Rural Affairs Committee should be aware of what is intended here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 232735,
      "EditedText": "Reports will normally take the form of an extended letter to the convener of the Westminster committee, which will be sent to Westminster and the Scottish Executive and circulated to all members. They will contain some standard text, outlining which document is being considered and when, followed by some paragraphs compiled by the clerks and signed by the convener. When we have something more substantial to report, we will have to consider what is the appropriate format for that. It might not be a letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 232736,
      "EditedText": "What will happen to the letter? Will it be tabled at a meeting of the Westminster committee? How will it subsequently be reported?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5999,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ID": 5999,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 232740,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is a negative instrument, the Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107). An explanatory memorandum, which outlines the impact of the instrument, has been circulated. Members will recall that at a previous discussion we took the view that, in the main, the European Committee would note Scottish statutory instruments. In this case, the Rural Affairs Committee, which is the lead committee, has not yet reported on the SSI, so I suggest that for the moment we note the instrument and inform the Rural Affairs Committee of that, unless any members have specific comments to make.Concern has been expressed in committees about the way in which SSIs are being dealt with; we were probably the first committee to make clear our dissatisfaction on that score. The whole matter has now been referred to the Procedures Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5999,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ID": 5999,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 232742,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5999,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ID": 5999,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 232744,
      "EditedText": "Is the organic aid fund part of the structural funds? If it is, do we have a role in examining its effectiveness?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5999,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ID": 5999,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 232745,
      "EditedText": "It is doled out by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6000,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ID": 6000,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 232749,
      "EditedText": "Stephen Imrie will bring us up to date on what has been happening with the consultation process. We seem to be getting a good response. Once all the responses are in, the committee will have to do a major piece of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6000,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ID": 6000,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 232754,
      "EditedText": "I am not taking bids at this meeting. If anyone has a specific interest, they should notify the committee clerk and it will be considered, along with the responses from other organisations. You are right that enlargement, the euro, on which you have done some work, social economy issues and various justice issues that we have considered are major items for this committee. However, many organisations in Scotland will have particular interests. We need to consider where those interests coincide with our priorities. I hope that, in the next two meetings, we can firm up our agenda for the first few months of next year, identify whom we need to meet and where, and appoint rapporteurs on specific topics.Our German guests have arrived. Can we allow the meeting to flow, as some people have to leave? I will deal quickly with items 5 and 6, and we will return to our guests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 232761,
      "EditedText": "Western Isles Health Board is visiting that night."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 232762,
      "EditedText": "I am available on 17 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 232763,
      "EditedText": "That is the night of the Scotland v England game."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 232764,
      "EditedText": "You are obviously not a football fan, Ben."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 232765,
      "EditedText": "At what time will the function be, convener? I can speak Dutch."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 232766,
      "EditedText": "What time is your appointment, Winnie?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 232767,
      "EditedText": "Sandy Matheson from Western Isles Health Board is coming at 6 o'clock that evening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 232770,
      "EditedText": "My appointment with Western Isles Health Board comes first. It will be a question of timing. First things first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 232774,
      "EditedText": "Ben Wallace will be at Hampden while everyone else is at Wembley. I will not comment on politicians being out of touch with the wider electorate.A delegation of Swedish MPs will be visiting on the evening of 16 November. George Reid will host a reception. Who is available to attend? Sylvia Jackson, Margo MacDonald, Allan Wilson, Ben Wallace, Winnie Ewing and Maureen Macmillan are available. Winnie, do you speak Swedish as well?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 232775,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 232776,
      "EditedText": "You can speak Dutch to them and get some practice in for the next night.Anyone else who is interested should contact the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 232779,
      "EditedText": "I have already touched on one aspect of the recent meeting of the conveners committee. We also discussed research facilities for committees. There is a feeling among conveners that the committees need more resources to enable them to do their work adequately. A contrast has been made with the support that the Executive receives. The Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body will consider the matter and I will report back once I have details.We have already touched on the issue of travel. We hope to firm up our intentions for the next few months at the next two meetings.A specific sum of money has been allocated to the civic forum to develop partnerships between wider Scotland and the Parliament. It would be useful to have a report at a future meeting on what the European Committee can gain from working in partnership with others.The final item is a rather bizarre one. As convener of this committee, I was asked to participate in a question and answer session at the East of Scotland European Consortium conference. Four members of the committee were also invited to attend the conference and we had identified our nominees. Since the Standards Committee's recent inquiry, advice has been given to all committees on hospitality and advocacy. We are advised that any committee members who attend events as members of the Scottish Parliament and receive cups of tea, for example, will have to pay for them. If they do not, they will have to declare them. Members will not be able to accept lunches. We cannot accept the invitation for me to participate in the conference on behalf of this committee, and members cannot participate on behalf of ESEC. No budget is available for sending anyone from this committee who wishes to go; anyone who wishes to go will have to pay for it themselves.In the circumstances, I think that we should politely decline until the matter is resolved. I know that the issue has come up in other committees. It is getting to the farcical stage that we will not be able to meet outside bodies in any way, shape or form. I think that the rigid rule is starting to bring the parliamentary process into disrepute. Far from protecting us and the wider public from excesses, it has reached the other extreme. I regret having to say that we should decline the invitation, but unless anyone wishes to pay for this and other events themselves, we have been advised that we cannot participate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 232781,
      "EditedText": "I am absolutely in favour of transparency and accountability, as are, I am sure, all members of the committee. However, it seems that the ruling impedes people's ability to do their job properly and to participate fully in the committee's work and in constructive engagement with others involved in European matters in Scotland. I trust, convener, that you will take that view forward to the conveners liaison group and pursue it until we get a better resolution that would allow us to undertake this type of engagement. We should involve ourselves with groups of people who are interested in Europe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 232783,
      "EditedText": "I understand what Ben is saying, and he is right about where the problem emanates from. However, there is also an issue of interpretation. We need to consider what remit people from the legal fraternity are given when they are asked to provide an interpretation. Surely we can have a rational look at this in the Standards Committee and arrive at an interpretation that is rather more flexible. I, for one, have been offered a cup of tea, and I am going to take it. I will be interested to see what people do about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 232784,
      "EditedText": "We can buy a corporate flask."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 232785,
      "EditedText": "The advice is for your own protection. Members can go to the conference and pay their own way. However, if they attend at the request of ESEC, the advice is that they will have to declare that and that it could affect them if they wish to speak on any issues pertaining to ESEC, which could include structural funds and other such matters. That could be very significant for members who represent areas covered by ESEC."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 232786,
      "EditedText": "As has already been said, we have descended into a farcical situation. I am concerned that this problem is being reported through this committee, as in my day-to-day work as a member of the Scottish Parliament representing my constituents I am invited to attend conferences. Last week, I spoke at a young carers conference. Are we now saying that, because I had lunch there, I am not allowed to speak on carers issues in the Parliament? That would be nonsensical. I have received nothing in writing from anyone connected with the Parliament to clarify this issue. As a matter of urgency, we should say that, if a ruling has been made, we need to see it in black and white. I want to see it before Thursday this week, when I am due to attend another conference on behalf of the British Cooperative Movement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 232788,
      "EditedText": "Everyone else has rehearsed the arguments, and I am sure that we are of one mind on this. We would make ourselves look absolutely stupid as a Parliament if we wrote to the folk at ESEC to say, \"We are awfully sorry that we can't come, but if we close our ears and do not listen to the bits that we might be interested in, would that be all right?\" Can we ask for a ruling on this as a matter of urgency, using this conference as the prototype? It is important that we attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 232789,
      "EditedText": "The problem, if it is a problem, has arisen because of the Scotland Act 1998 and the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999. It might be difficult to change the order in time for this conference. We have raised the matter on the committee's behalf with the Standards Committee, which is examining the code of conduct and so on. However, the nub of the problem is the interpretation of the order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 232790,
      "EditedText": "With respect, could we not have some sort of interregnum until this is sorted out? We cannot sort it out completely ourselves if it is part and parcel of the Scotland Act 1998."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 232792,
      "EditedText": "I have already attended an ESEC event, at which I was given food and listened very carefully to what was said. The same applies to a number of members of the committee. We are getting on to some of the more bizarre elements of this. However, I am sure that the four members who attend the conference will be invited along as delegates representing Parliament. How about them attending purely as observers, with no fee attached? Would that not overcome the difficulties?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 232793,
      "EditedText": "There is still an issue to address. I will ask Stephen to find out what the options are. In the meantime, we will tell ESEC that there is a potential problem and advise the individual members concerned, who will need to make their own final decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 232797,
      "EditedText": "ESEC is aware of the problems. We will await further information.I will suspend the proceedings for a couple of minutes to allow our German guests to join us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 232799,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 232800,
      "EditedText": "Stephen, can you give us some advice about the technical aspects of the simultaneous interpretation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 232803,
      "EditedText": "On behalf of the European Committee of the Scottish Parliament, I welcome our German guests. This is the committee's first opportunity to meet formally delegates from other European organisations. Outside the Parliament, we have met informally a number of representatives from Holland, Germany, Sweden and Spain. However, today is the first chance that we have had to share our experiences formally and we hope that this will be the first of many visits from the regions of Europe. We believe that we have much to learn from the way in which you, our guests, have operated over recent years. We hope that, because we are a new Parliament, we may be able to bring some fresh thinking to the way in which the regions of Europe operate. We are delighted to hear from you today. We are aware that today is a significant date for you, as it is the 10th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin wall, which brought many significant changes to your part of Germany. German integration, which followed that, had many problems and doubtless you have had to wrestle with many of the economic and social difficulties that integration brought. However, integration also brought many major political changes to Europe. We hope that, as a new Parliament, we can learn from you and from your region, which has recently become part of the European Union through integration. We will take it from there.I invite each of our guests to make a short contribution, following which there will be comments and questions from committee members. Given that my knowledge of German is non-existent and that my accent is bad, perhaps you could introduce yourselves, so that I do not offend anyone by mispronouncing their name. Welcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Katrin Budde (Business and European Affairs Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 232804,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I can give an introduction in English, but it will be better if I speak German and use the translator for the detail of our presentation. Thank you for inviting this delegation of members of the Saxony-Anhalt Parliament, who are also members of the economics, technology and European affairs committee—the three issues are put together. My colleagues are Herr Süß, who is the PDS's economics spokesman, Herr Gürth, who is the economics spokesman for the CDU—the equivalent of the Conservative party—and Herr Tögel, who is the SPD's European affairs spokesman. He is also a member of the European Union's Committee of the Regions. I am Katrin Budde. I am the SPD's economics spokeswoman and the committee's chairwoman. The convener is right—today, 9 November, is an important day for us, as 10 years have passed since the fall of the Berlin wall. Perhaps we can tell you something about our new Parliament, which is a little different from those of the other, old German provinces. Our Parliament is exactly nine years old. For 40 years before that, there was no Parliament in Saxony-Anhalt. I know that is not the same as the 200 years that Scotland waited."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 232814,
      "EditedText": "The delegation knows who I am, because they visited my constituency yesterday and we had dinner. I want to thank them for coming before the committee. Their presentation has been helpful and useful; it contained a lot of information. I had the good fortune to be able to visit the region of Sachsen-Anhalt exactly two years ago—it was the eighth anniversary of the wall coming down. It is auspicious that this is the first regional delegation to visit the committee and that it is doing so today, on the 10th anniversary of the fall of the wall. Today, in the committee, we are marking history.I was impressed by the emphasis placed on the restructuring of the economy in Sachsen-Anhalt, particularly the importance placed on infrastructure and information-communications technology. I hope that we can learn something from that difficult task. There are similarities between the Sachsen-Anhalt region and Scotland in terms of unemployment and the difficulties that we face in modernising and regenerating our economies. I hope that we can learn from each other.To follow up on some points raised in the presentation, I am interested in the delegates' views on opportunities for possible further co-operation on economic development initiatives. The west of Scotland participated in the successful ECOS-Ouverture programme. Sachsen-Anhalt was one of the partner regions involved. I know that our visitors are particularly interested in INTERREG: do they see opportunities for further co-operation and development on that?I was also interested to hear my colleague, Mr Tögel, speak about the Committee of the Regions. I wondered what the structural mechanisms were for incorporating the work of the Committee of the Regions in Sachsen-Anhalt. Do opinions involving delegates come before the committees, or are delegates autonomous and independent of the structures?I was wondering about engagement with the people, which has already been mentioned, and about how you communicate positive messages to the people. I wonder whether we can learn anything from Sachsen-Anhalt's 10 years' experience in that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 232825,
      "EditedText": "The response from members of the public is very good. People welcome the opportunity to read about what we debate. I know from many comments made to me about this committee and others that individuals and organisations look at the Official Report of the committees in great detail. They do so to learn, but also to hold us to account for what we do in Parliament. The fact that we are open and that the information is available very quickly is one of the successes of the Parliament. By tomorrow, everyone—not just people in Scotland—will know what we have discussed today. People from other parts of the world read about what is happening in the Parliament. Most of us think that it is a very good initiative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 232817,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. Such interchange makes the European Committee worth while. One of my reasons for wanting to sit on the committee was that I wanted to be involved in such discussions. It is a special day for us, as this is the first time that we have had such interchange.I was interested to hear what Herr Gürth said about the founding of your Parliament. Obviously, it was set up in completely different circumstances, and with a completely different background from ours. You had the advantage of having no ground rules written for you when the Parliament was established. Many of our ground rules were set down for us, which is creating some frustrations in the Scottish Parliament. We inherited a legislative framework.I am the chief whip of the Scottish National party in the Scottish Parliament. I have a couple of questions for you. I understand that the upper house of the German federal Parliament—the Bundesrat—is where the Länder are most directly involved in European policy. I would like to know how you, in Sachsen-Anhalt, can influence  European policy at that level and what processes exist. I would also like to ask about the process of your federal Land financial transfers—a process that you call the Finanzausgleich. What has been Sachsen-Anhalt's experience of that? I understand that a couple of the Länder are taking the Bundesrat to court on the issue of the way in which European funds are arriving in the various Länder. How does the money arrive in the Länder from the federal Government, and how is it accounted for? It would be useful for us to understand that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 232821,
      "EditedText": "I will ask two general questions. Your Parliament was set up with high expectations, as was this Parliament, but we have seen people from the former East Germany being interviewed on television who say that their expectations have not been met. Do you have any advice for us on managing the expectations that people have of a new Parliament?You already explained that, like this Parliament, your Parliament has members who were directly elected, mainly SPD members, and members who were elected on a list. Do you differentiate between members who are directly elected and those elected on a list? Do you have different job descriptions? How do you manage that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Budde: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 232822,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) I will begin with the second question. There are no real differences. How a member of Parliament is elected is of secondary importance; all members have the same rights and duties. It would be possible for those who are elected directly to be treated differently within their parliamentary group, but I do not know of any group that makes that distinction. Once you are a member of Parliament, you are a member of Parliament, and that is that.The 10 years since the reunification of Germany have shown that it is very difficult to learn democracy. That applies to members of Parliament, but also to the population in general. It is not always possible to fulfil everyone's expectations, because—to make it more abstract—those expectations range from getting rid of a little bit of dog poo in front of somebody's door to providing somebody with a job. People do not understand why a Parliament cannot decide that a business will not go bankrupt.We have to learn about the powers of local authorities and Parliaments and the learning curve is very steep. After large-scale restructuring, expectations are even higher—much higher than the system can satisfy. The only chance might be that people, especially children, who grow up under a new democratic system will learn that democracy is not just about living and taking, but about participating. Then you might have the opportunity to see what a Parliament can and cannot do. In East Germany, our expectations were far too high."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 232823,
      "EditedText": "At least two other members of the committee want to ask questions, but we do not have much time. Do our visitors have any questions for the committee before we close?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 232826,
      "EditedText": "I am a cynic and a member of the Scottish National party."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Budde: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 232838,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee and I invite you to Sachsen-Anhalt to learn how our Parliament and committees work. Apart from going to a place, the best way to learn about somewhere is to read about it and look at pictures of it. We have brought small books for the members of the committee and a big book for the convener. We brought small books because it is hard to bring heavy books from Sachsen-Anhalt, but if you visit Magdeburg, we will give you thicker books.Thank you for giving us the time to speak to you. I hope that we can continue this discussion in Magdeburg."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 232840,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:18."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 232675,
      "EditedText": "The recommendation for document 337 (EC Ref No 10672/99) is for no further action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 232677,
      "EditedText": "I think that you have a fair point. I am not sure whether we should draw it to the attention of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee or of Scottish Enterprise, which could circulate the information through its network. I am sure that that organisation is already aware of the information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 232678,
      "EditedText": "I think that I have raised this point already. A scheme existed for a while, but it did not apply to Scotland because none of the Scottish banks were willing to do the work. After the fuss that many people made, the Scottish banks, one by one, entered the scheme. It was not a direct grant. Under it, loans are agreed on much more favourable terms than would be the case if they were undertaken by banks under normal risk rules. The banks were covered by the European Investment Bank if they lent under the scheme. My understanding is that, for some reason, the Scottish banks stopped doing that. We should ask the EIB if the scheme is still being operated in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 232680,
      "EditedText": "Presumably the investment fund report would show that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 232684,
      "EditedText": "I can advise you, Ben, that the minutes and the Official Report of our previous meeting now incorporate the EC and COM numbers. We are not doing that for this meeting, otherwise the convener would have to read out a lot of numbers, but we ensure that they are inserted after the meeting so that MEPs and other observers are aware of what documents we are talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 232688,
      "EditedText": "Are the provisions for the control of blue tongue or blue nose, convener? Can I have clarification on that? I was worried."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 232693,
      "EditedText": "We could possibly take that at our next meeting, and get representatives of the Rural Affairs Committee to attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 232697,
      "EditedText": "This issue has been discussed with the industry over the past six months or so. The issues that Bruce Crawford raised are in the public domain. Infectious salmon anaemia is a viral infection, and there is no concern whatever about it in a human context. I hope that this is a technical measure that can be taken forward at speed. There are no wider implications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 232698,
      "EditedText": "We can ask the Scottish Executive to comment on that in its cover note."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 232699,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that this is a technical measure, and I do not want to take up the time of the committee when we have guests coming later. Do we have time to work out whether this committee has any role to play in ensuring that the correct information about what is happening to our fishing industry permeates throughout Europe? It could be argued that that would be one lesson we might learn from the whole beef business. I do not want to open up discussions, but want to put on record that I would like to talk about that at some point.We have links into different European structures and committees and so on. It might be wise to consider how we might use them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 232701,
      "EditedText": "I want to support Margo MacDonald. I am sure that as we go through these documents, we will come across items on which we need to be proactive. We maybe need some time to reflect on matters such as the venture issue that you mentioned earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 232702,
      "EditedText": "The recommendation for document 377 (EC Ref No 11025/99, COM(99)437 final) is agreed. It is suggested that someone from rural affairs be invited to the next meeting and that the Scottish Executive be asked to address Bruce Crawford's specific question in its cover note.For document 378 (EC Ref No 11029/99, COM(99) 439 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 379 (EC Ref No 11065/99, COM(99) 431 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 380 (EC Ref No 11066/99, COM(99) 415 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 381 (EC Ref No 11067/99, COM(99) 416 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 382 (EC Ref No 11068/99, COM(99) 417 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 383 (EC Ref No 11069/99, COM(99) 418 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 384 (EC Ref No 11070/99, COM(99) 419 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 385 (EC Ref No 11071/99, COM(99) 420 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 386 (EC Ref No 11072/99, COM(99) 421 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 387 (EC Ref No 11073/99, COM(99) 422 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 388 (EC Ref No 11074/99, COM(99) 423 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 389 (EC Ref No 11075/99, COM(99) 424 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 390 (EC Ref No 11103/99, COM(99) 449 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 391 (EC Ref No 11145/99, COM(99) 410 final), we are advised to take no further action, but to send a copy to the Transport and the Environment Committee for its interest. That is agreed.For document 392, we are advised to take no further action, but to send a copy to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee for its interest. That is agreed.For document 393 (EC Ref No 9928/99), we are advised to await the explanatory memorandum. That is agreed.For document 394 (EC Ref No 10897/99), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 395 (EC Ref No 10992/99, COM(99) 441 final), we are advised to take no further action, but to send a copy to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. That is agreed.For document 396 (EC Ref No 10993/99, SEC(99) 1386 final), we are advised to take no further action, but to send a copy to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. That is agreed.We need to make a decision on document 397 (EC Ref No 10995/99, COM(99) 440 final)."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 232703,
      "EditedText": "Advice on the document has been left as,\"To be decided on 9th November\"because since the sift meeting we have been trying to find out whether a decision on which experts will sit on the employment committee will be taken at the Council meeting on 12 November. It was suggested that members of this committee might want to make recommendations on who the UK members of the employment committee should be. I am advised that nominations will not be discussed at the meeting on 12 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 232704,
      "EditedText": "Is there a time scale?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 232711,
      "EditedText": "I do not agree with the position that has been adopted with regard to the World Trade Organisation. The Lomé convention, which gave privileged access for the third world countries' bananas, applies to only 8 per cent of the total amount of bananas consumed in Europe. The rest come from the multinationals that prop up the two parties in the United States. The Lomé convention predates the WTO. It does not seem right that an internationally agreed global trading arrangement should be criticised and attacked by a subsequent international body—WTO. It was the WTO's interference in our arrangements on bananas that caused the United States to retaliate—quite unjustifiably, in my opinion—against cashmere and biscuits from Scotland and various other things in other parts of Europe, for example French handbags and perfume. If the situation arises again and the WTO hits back, will it happen all over again? That is my concern, because I believe that what happened was illegal"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2278837+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 232713,
      "EditedText": "I propose that we find out whether I am right or wrong by asking an expert about the WTO's position, so that what happened cannot happen again. There is a settlement—possibly—but we do not know for how long it will last. We have no details about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2278837+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 232719,
      "EditedText": "I do not agree. In this document, we have been asked to do something very specific. If we did as you suggest, we would be led into a wider debate that involves subjective opinions. That debate is not relevant today; if we want to have that debate here, it would be a separate matter. We have been asked whether we want to process the document further or to take no further action. What Margo is saying differs from the recommendation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 232722,
      "EditedText": "We recommend, therefore, that the document be referred to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and that we ask for further information from the Scottish Executive to assist that committee with its deliberations. In addition, Bruce has asked that the memorandum be circulated to members of this committee. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 232727,
      "EditedText": "For document 448 (EC Ref No 10733/99, COM(99)433 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 449 (EC Ref No 10737/99, COM(99)436 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.The clerk will report back to us regarding documents 334 (EC Ref No 10609/99, COM(99)396 final) and 345 (EC Ref No 10486/99, COM(99)387 final) so that we have a summary view to send to the Executive and to Westminster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 232729,
      "EditedText": "An issue has been raised by the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee about Scots law and that committee would like us to incorporate its comments in our submission. Does the committee agree that that should be the case and that we should forward the comments to the Executive and to Westminster?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 232734,
      "EditedText": "What will be the format of any report that we might submit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 232738,
      "EditedText": "This is important, because if we provide submissions we need to know that they are being taken fully into account. It is not enough for it to be noted that there has been a letter from the Scottish Parliament. The content of our submission must be fully understood by everyone involved in the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 232739,
      "EditedText": "I will find out more about how the submission is received."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5999,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ID": 5999,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 232743,
      "EditedText": "It is subject to annulment because it is a negative instrument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5999,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ID": 5999,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 232746,
      "EditedText": "The question of whether it is a structural fund is important as we have a responsibility to ensure that structural funds are being applied properly. Wales has perhaps a 30 per cent coverage from the organic aid fund. If we have to identify the efficacy of the organic aid fund in Scotland, we will have to use the experience of others as a benchmark."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5999,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ID": 5999,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 232747,
      "EditedText": "I am under the impression that it is a supplement to agriculture payments, as opposed to a structural fund."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6000,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ID": 6000,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 232750,
      "EditedText": "We expect to receive more than 50 responses to the consultation exercise from a wide range of organisations and individuals. We have received about 40 so far. The deadline has not been strictly enforced as we wanted to encourage people to send in responses. We will compile the responses into a summary document that will extract the key issues and will list everyone who has come back to us with evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6000,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ID": 6000,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 232751,
      "EditedText": "A number of issues flow from this, some of which we will deal with later today.We will have to consult many of the organisations that have submitted evidence, particularly Scottish local government through the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. There is a request for representatives of COSLA to meet this committee. I suggest that we invite them to our next meeting, on 23 November. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 232757,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, David. I will not ask about the comments to Cathy. We will leave that to her. Cathy, will you report on the contacts with the Spanish representatives?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 232758,
      "EditedText": "Due to members having other commitments that afternoon, I was the only person able to meet the Spanish delegation. That was a bit unfortunate, as it meant that they were given a rather personal perspective on a number of matters, including the football, about which we had a long discussion. It was a useful meeting, as it highlighted the level of interest of the delegation in the relationship between the Scottish Parliament and Westminster, how that relationship is evolving, how we can look to the future to make links between the regional Parliaments in different areas and how those links might proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 232759,
      "EditedText": "My meeting with the two delegates from Valencia went on at some length. The deputy mayor of Valencia was in one of my groups. The delegates were very interested in Scotland and everything that we are doing here. Valencia had a war with Spain in 1707, when it lost its independence, and it seems to identify with Scotland because of the year 1707. I have been to Valencia and met the gentlemen before. They were fascinated by the evolving situation here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 232760,
      "EditedText": "We have dealt with the request from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. The Scottish Executive has also requested that a member of the committee attend a function at Edinburgh castle on the evening of 17 November with a visiting member of the Dutch royal family. Is anyone available?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 232768,
      "EditedText": "Ben, would you be happy for Winnie to go to the function?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 232769,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 232772,
      "EditedText": "I will try to get back from Hampden in time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 232778,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that that will be noted.We have received a letter from Highlands and Islands Enterprise to which I have drafted a reply. The letter follows up our discussion of the draft plan for the area. Are members happy with the draft reply and agreed that it should be sent?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 232782,
      "EditedText": "I am well aware of this matter. What is required is for the Executive to change the Scotland Act 1998 and the Scottish statutory instrument pertaining to members' interests. The difference between ourselves and Westminster is that we are subject to the Scotland Act 1998 and can be held against it, whereas Westminster is a court and cannot be challenged on its procedures. I agree that it is ridiculous. If the conveners make a representation to the Executive, the Executive can simply amend that legislation, which can be undone. I am advised that that is how we must proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 232791,
      "EditedText": "No, because nobody has the authority to overrule legislation that is still in place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 232796,
      "EditedText": "We should point out that the conference is an important event. A short-term solution might be for Stephen or some other parliamentary official to attend as an observer to show that the committee is at least interested in the event. We do not want the organisers to think that we are not attending because we do not want to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 232801,
      "EditedText": "I have in front of me a note about how to use the translation equipment—simply plug in the headphones and press the start button, which is the green button on the front of the apparatus. English speakers should select channel 2 and German speakers should select channel 3. Members of the committee should indicate any problems to me and I will try to resolve them as we go along."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The speaker continued in German. Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 232805,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps you will allow me to continue in German. All of us have been members of Parliament since 1990. When we started our parliamentary work, we had to reorganise. We notice that you deal with European matters on a fortnightly pattern—perhaps that is due to the newness of the Scottish Parliament. After 10 years in Germany, we do not have a European committee, but that does not mean that we do not accord European matters the same importance and of course we have to see where we can learn from each other. We emphasise that we are happy to exchange views with you on European matters, because we feel that our countries have many similarities.Scotland has areas that receive objective 2 and objective 1 funding from the European Union. Sachsen-Anhalt is still an objective 1 area. However, for Scotland and the new regions, this might be the last period in which we will benefit from the structural funds. We may see a few differences when we compare the period 2000 to 2006 with the first period.You asked us what you could learn as a Parliament. We will be able to talk about that in our question and answer session. As a committee and as a Parliament, we have been looking into European co-operation and the content of the structural funds. We will have an opportunity to discuss those topics.The European Union and the European Parliament are also important for us. Increasingly, we are seeing the legislators of the European Union countries included in the process of European unification and co-operation. We would like to play our part in that. We are interested in the co-operation of committees that deal with European matters.Our Parliaments are elected in similar manners. We have directly elected members and members who come from a regional list. I think that our legislatures have similar structures.I think that that is enough for my introduction. Later on, we can have a more detailed discussion, and the opportunity to talk about working together on a more permanent basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 232812,
      "EditedText": "I am the president of one of the parties that sits in this Parliament—the Scottish National party, which is the official Opposition. Because I am the oldest member, I have the title of the mother. That is quite nice, because it means that I get invited to all sorts of events. I was also the mother of the European Parliament, of which I was a member for 24 years.I have a few short questions. You say in your paper that the Länder can establish their own representations in Brussels. Are those representations limited to the Commission, or do they have access in any form to the council?You also say that a Land could take a different line from the rest if it had a special interest in doing do so and you give the example of North Rhine-Westphalia. One of you mentioned that you sit on the Committee of the Regions. Is that correct? In your part of the world, are those members appointed or elected? How many members are you entitled to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wolfgang Süß (PDS): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 232808,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) I want to outline my opinion on a particular problem. Yesterday, we examined the problem of European structural funds for the period to 2006. In our country, the operational programmes that we have have come to an end. We have fixed the areas for funding, which must now be confirmed by Brussels. I was particularly interested in the talk on European partnerships in Glasgow yesterday. We heard how the distribution of European funds in Scotland has undergone a grass-roots development over the past 10 years. According to what we were told yesterday, a number of local bodies can decide on the distribution of those funds. We hear from Scotland that you have four such agencies. As parliamentarians and members of the Government, you may want to find ways of developing that further. It may prove a good basis for obtaining a broad acceptance of the system and may allow many people to participate. We are trying a similar approach and are interested in how you have been dealing with this so far. Perhaps we will get a number of approaches that are suitable for us. It would also be interesting to hear how this can be improved, to ensure a just and efficient distribution of funds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 232811,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. You make some very interesting points. Your point about how structural and other European funds have been used in Scotland is well made, as Scotland has a reputation for using structural funds efficiently. I hope that that experience will be of benefit to other regions in Europe.I now invite members of the committee to ask questions. I ask members to identify themselves and to say whom they represent, for the benefit our guests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tögel: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 232813,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) I will answer the first question on our liaison office in Brussels. It is an information office. Unlike the federal Government, we do not have any executive rights. As far as I know, there are informal channels, but we do not have the opportunity to sit on the council. We carry out important work. Scotland has similar structures and, in my experience, it is very important to be able to deal rapidly with proposals in Brussels. The powers of the Scottish Parliament and its members might be similar to those of our liaison office. The difference may be that we are a small regional Parliament. We do not have the funds to employ as many people as, for example, North Rhine-Westphalia or Bavaria. The regional Parliaments have different powers. However, we hope that our employees' qualifications make up for that shortfall.Germany, like the UK, has 24 places on the Committee of the Regions. There is an agreement between the federal Government, the region and local government about the distribution of seats. Each region gets one seat—that is 16 seats. The local agencies get one seat—perhaps you have similar agencies, such as districts. That leaves five seats, which are rotated between the largest regions, providing them with a second seat. For example, Sachsen-Anhalt currently has two seats and will have one in the next session, whereas North Rhine-Westphalia has only one seat. The member or deputy member is part of the regional government. However, unusually, the government of Sachsen-Anhalt has decided that that member should be elected by the Parliament. Currently, I am that member."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tögel: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 232816,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) Your situation is not different from ours. We try to show what European policies achieve, but it is not always easy because of the media. There is sometimes a lot of bad feeling in our population, which arises from misinformation or ignorance. Much work has yet to be done. I do not know what your situation is, but when I look at your history, I am sure that it is not different from our situation.The issue with regard to structural funds is always co-funding. Success has many fathers, so many people say, \"We organised this and we did that and we provided the funds, and then along came Europe,\" but common initiatives are different. Under INTERREG and similar schemes, people who have nothing to do with us otherwise can see and experience what they can achieve with partners in other European regions. In my region, we had one or two projects that were run with the help of LEADER II, and people became enthusiastic Europeans because they had practical experience that Brussels was not far away. When projects are introduced, people suddenly have a completely different relationship with Brussels and Europe. That is why I try to get my colleagues to ensure that we have funds for our region and that we get the means to co-finance initiatives.We want to ensure also that the region can help private businesses to be active under those programmes. That is tangible and provides concrete examples that are different from building a bridge or a new ring road, or similar projects. People view that as normal; they do not see it as being financed by Brussels. As part of the common initiatives, we need to form transnational partnerships with the other European regions, the eastern European regions and the accession countries. That is a function that our region, which was integrated for 40 years in the communist system, finds difficult. We have a partnership with Bulgaria and an office there—the only office that a German region has in Bulgaria. We have contact with Iceland, Hungary and other eastern European states, which provide expert knowledge that might be of use to other western European regions. That could be a groundbreaking project for any other regions that might be interested. The issue was raised in our talks with Irene Oldfather and others, and we would like to know whether you might be interested in that.I return to structural questions. We have only half the regional population of Scotland and only half the budget. However, we have a similarly heterogeneous structure. In Sachsen-Anhalt, the petrochemical industry is very active, but the region has only a small population. We experienced several structural problems after the fall of the Berlin wall. It is our duty to achieve a parity of living standard, but the north of our region does not have the same input as the south. I imagine that there are similar problems in Scotland: there are differences between the north and the south, and between the western isles and Edinburgh and Glasgow. Those problems could form a basis for working under INTERREG or other joint initiatives, to determine European policies, to make procedures more transparent, and to create a basis for future development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gürth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 232818,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) I will give you some information about the Finanzausgleich. It is our duty to ensure that the quality of life is on a similar level across Germany. Our constitution stipulates that certain moneys have to be paid into a fund that is used to achieve a common level. Tax income goes directly to local authorities according to a complex system. The distribution is decided in the Bundesrat—the upper house. It is currently being discussed whether the current system is just and good. The more affluent, economically stronger regions say that the system is not good for the future because there is no incentive for poorer regions to use the money sparingly while achieving the same level of affluence. The more affluent regions have to give away much of their excess money, so they have no incentive to become economically stronger. Debate on that issue is raging in Germany. We do not know what the result will be, but if you know Germany, you will know that Germans take a long time to argue and find solutions to such problems.For the past four years, we have been part of the Finanzausgleich. There was a different transfer system for the old regions of the former East Germany. The solidarity pact will run until 2004. How the transfer of funds will work for the new regions of the former East Germany will be renegotiated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Süß: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 232820,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) I would like to say one or two words about the flow of funds from the federal Government to the regions. The east of Germany, including Sachsen-Anhalt, is an objective 1 area. The recipients of objective 1 funding were decided jointly by the federal Government and the regions. The financial framework for the funds for regional development and for the social and agricultural funds is detailed for every year until 2006. In principle, there are no arguments, with the exception of one point that is under discussion. The federal Government uses a small percentage of funds for transregional roadworks—the creation of new infrastructure. That is on the assumption that the old east needs proportionately more roads than the western region. A small proportion of the funds is kept by the federal Government for such work.The spending plans that are on the table at the moment are not affordable, so cuts must be made. On the other hand, we are trying to find more funds to allow the work to go ahead. The current situation is that the funding shortage will not be to the detriment of the region. We have an operational programme for which funding has been decided. Five target groups will benefit from three funds: the structural fund, the regional development fund and the social and agricultural fund. Small to medium enterprises are one group that is being funded. Germany is in the middle of a restructuring process, the speed of which is probably unknown anywhere else in the world. As a result of that, unemployment is around 22 per cent. Our region has the highest unemployment figures in Germany, and has had for the past few years. That is because we had large-scale industries: petrochemical industries, lignite and mining industries. The introduction of the deutschmark—overnight—reduced the efficiency of certain sectors of the industry. It is important that we develop small and medium enterprises, create new structures and modernise businesses and enterprises. We must also promote research and technological development. We heard earlier that that is necessary because the speed of innovation is not sufficient in our country.Apart from looking after small and medium enterprises, we must take a number of measures to improve the infrastructure. We must, for example, work on the transport infrastructure and the environment, especially in the old industrial regions, where we have large-scale pollution. I think that there are similar problems in Lanarkshire, where there is also pollution from old industries. We want more emission control and less air pollution.We want to use the social funds to create more jobs. We currently have between 280,000 and 290,000 people who are unemployed and actively looking for work. We will use those programmes to retrain people and help them to get qualifications. We will also clean up the pollution caused by the old industries.Currently, we have a relatively clear idea of which areas we will concentrate on. We are also clear in our minds about where the funds will come from. One problem, which Ms Budde mentioned, is that the decision-making structures in Brussels cause difficulties. I do not know whether this is our problem or a problem in Brussels. Brussels always says that it is our problem and we say that it is a problem in Brussels and that the decision-making process is not sufficiently transparent.This process must go faster for regions that receive objective 1 funding and are in the process of restructuring. I do not know how successful we will be, but it is important to exchange information at the international level; for example, to find out how this process works in your country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tögel: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 232824,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) We were surprised to learn that your meetings are open and that the Official Report can be read on the internet. We find that very strange. Our committee meetings are not open and the publication of any record is very restricted. We hope that that means that the arguments take centre stage and that members cannot use meetings as a means of self-promotion. Public discussion takes place in the plenary sessions. I would be interested to hear of your experiences of your open system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 232828,
      "EditedText": "You have to be one to be the other. While I endorse what the convener has said about people in Scotland endorsing the openness of our Parliament, politicians also have to deliver on jobs and on economic reform. People might appreciate being able to read about what politicians have said, but they will only love politicians if they actually do something. In Scotland, we are on a limited time scale. We have to improve the quality of life in Scotland or else the population will become a little impatient with us. In a global economy, life is hard and people do not have time to listen to politicians."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 232834,
      "EditedText": "Margo, I have never known you to ask a brief question, but on you go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 232835,
      "EditedText": "Is the European Union a popular institution in Sachsen-Anhalt?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 232837,
      "EditedText": "On behalf of the European Committee, I thank our guests for their presentation. As Bruce Crawford said, sessions such as this make the work of the committee worth while. It is important for Europe that people from different regions reach out the hand of friendship and work together. I hope that this is not the last contact that you will have with the Scottish Parliament. I know that you have some contact with colleagues in Scotland but perhaps, through this Parliament, we can find ways of co-operating on joint projects that will be of benefit to the people we represent. I am delighted that you have taken the time to visit us.It has been suggested to me that I bid you farewell in German, but I fear that my German is so bad that I would insult you by trying. I thank the translator, who has been excellent and has helped us with our work, and I thank the broadcast service. I do not know whether any committee has used this facility before, but it is the first time that we have tried. I hope that we can do it again with other colleagues from the European regions.I ask the committee to wait behind at the end of the meeting so that we can have a photograph taken with our friends, who will make themselves available for questioning by anyone who did not have the opportunity to question them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5997,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5997,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 232671,
      "EditedText": "Is there simultaneous interpretation for the members of that delegation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5997,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5997,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 232672,
      "EditedText": "No. Please take a careful note of who said that for future reference.I also welcome Hanno von Graevenitz, the consul-general for Germany in Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 232682,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order. Many colleagues and people from the European Parliament look at the Official Report of our meetings. I have received some representations from MEPs—of other parties as well—who point out that we use only Scottish Parliament reference numbers. If we could put the Commission document number in the Official Report, they would know what we are talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 232685,
      "EditedText": "For document 340 (EC Ref No 10704/99, SEC(99)66 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 232687,
      "EditedText": "For document 341 (EC Ref No 10705/99, COM(99)367 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 346 (EC Ref No 10736/99, COM(99)388 final), we are advised to await the Scottish cover note. That is agreed. For document 349 (EC Ref No 10251/99, SEC(99)1213 final), we are advised to await an explanatory memorandum. That is agreed. For document 350 (EC Ref No 10742/99, COM(99)348 final), we are advised to await an explanatory memorandum. That is agreed. For document 374 (EC Ref No 10302/99), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 375 (EC Ref No 10773/99), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 376 (EC Ref No 11024/99, COM(99)368 final), we are advised to request the Scottish cover note."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 232689,
      "EditedText": "It is blue tongue, Margo. We have enough problems without introducing other parts of the anatomy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 232690,
      "EditedText": "Has there been an outbreak of blue nose?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 232692,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask a question about the timing of the regulation, which is a limited but important reform. We should know whether our recommendation for action will delay the implementation of the regulation. It was requested by the salmon farming industry. Document 377 already dates back to July, so there is considerable need to push on with it. I hope that that will happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 232694,
      "EditedText": "I would be grateful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 232696,
      "EditedText": "The issue would be one of timing. If we need to have an early view, someone from health should be invited to the next meeting. I do not know whether it will be possible for there to be longer consideration elsewhere after the relevant date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 232705,
      "EditedText": "The time scale for nominations is likely to be between now and Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 232707,
      "EditedText": "I have a question on the banana disputes and their impact on the textile industry. Should not we ensure that the impact does not continue elsewhere and ask the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee to have another look at the matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 232708,
      "EditedText": "If we think that there could be consequences, we can do that. I do not know whether that is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2122586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 232712,
      "EditedText": "That is not the matter that is before us. That is a totally extraneous issue. We are being asked to comment on a specific report. While you may, Dr Ewing, have genuine concerns about the wider issues, the question today is whether to take further action on the specific report. If you want to propose that we take different action on the report, by all means do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2278837+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 232715,
      "EditedText": "The issue that you and Winnie are addressing, Bruce, is of more concern to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee than to the European Committee. If members of that committee want to pursue the matter, that is up to them. We can refer the matter to them for their consideration. We can ask the Executive to provide more detailed information and to address the specific question that has been raised, but we have already suggested that the document should be referred—with that Executive information—to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. If there is any concern about the impact on the Scottish economy, that committee should consider the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2278837+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 232716,
      "EditedText": "I would like to see a copy of the memorandum, so that we can at least be broadly aware of what is going on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.2278837+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 232717,
      "EditedText": "We can circulate that as well. Do members agree that we should send the document to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee for information, with the further caveats that have been discussed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 232721,
      "EditedText": "I support that. The document should be referred to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, with the proviso that the attached advice—that the UK Parliament supports, and the Scottish Parliament should support, a Commission proposition for a quota-based solution to the problem—is correct. The dispute had a damaging impact on a number of industries and companies, some within my constituency, and it is appropriate that the matter be looked at in that context by the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee to ensure that no further damage arises from the proposed quota-based solution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 232723,
      "EditedText": "For document 407 (EC Ref No 11060/99, COM(99)384 final 99/0162 (CNS)), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 408 (EC Ref No 11144/99, COM(99)337 final COD 99/0152), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 409 (EC Ref No 11155/99, COM(99)450 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 410 (EC Ref No 11260/99, COM(99)432 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 411 (EC Ref No 11084/99, COPEN 37), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 412 (EC Ref No 11570/99, COPEN 42), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 413 (EC Ref No 11571/99, COPEN 43), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 414 (EC Ref No 11603/99, COPEN 44), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 437 (EC Ref No 12010/99, COPEN 47 COMIX 344), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 415, we are advised to take no further action, but copy to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. That is agreed.For document 416 (EC Ref No 11203/99, SEC(99)1470), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 417 (EC Ref No 11492/99, COM(99)425 final), we are advised to await the explanatory memorandum and make the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee aware of the issue. That is agreed.For document 418 (EC Ref No 11523/99), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 419 (EC Ref No 11217/99, COM(99)438 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 420 (EC Ref No 10608/99, PESC 257 COWEB 101), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 421 (EC Ref No 11552/99, SEC(99)1555), we are advised to take no further action but to copy the document to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. That is agreed.For document 422 (EC Ref No 11156/99, SEC(99)1302 final), we are advised to await the explanatory memorandum. That is agreed.For document 423 (EC Ref No 11326/99, PESC 305 COWEB 118), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 424 (EC Ref No 11780/99, DROIPEN 14) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 425 (EC Ref No SEC(99)) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 426 (EC Ref No11583/99, COM(99)454 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 427 (EC Ref No 11707/99, COM(99)457 final) we are advised to take no further action but to copy the document to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. That is agreed.For document 428 (EC Ref No 3710-07r6 Draft 3) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 429 (EC Ref No 11545/99, COM(99)459 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 430 (EC Ref No 11696/99, COM(99)459 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 431 (EC Ref No 11708/99, COM(99)453 final) we are advised to take no further action, but to copy the document to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. That is agreed.For document 432 (EC Ref No 11756/99, COM(99)461 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 433 (EC Ref No 11762/99, COM(99) 462 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 434 (EC Ref No 11788/99, COM(99)464 final) we are advised to take no further action, but to copy the document to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. That is agreed.For document 435 (EC Ref No 10767/99, COM(99)371 final) we are advised to take no further action but to copy the document to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. That is agreed.For document 436 (EC Ref No 11910/99, COM(99)466 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 438 (EC Ref No 11690/99, PESC 350 COWEB 130) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 439 (EC Ref No 11760/99, COM(99)469 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 440 (EC Ref No 11766/99, COM(99)473 final) we are advised to await the explanatory memorandum and to consider the document at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 441 (EC Ref No 11767/99 COM(99)472 final) we are advised to await the explanatory memorandum and to consider the document at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 442 (EC Ref No 11889/99, COM(99)470 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 443 (EC Ref No 11909/99, COM(99)455 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 444 (EC Ref No 11911/99, COM(99)460 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 445 (EC Ref No 11919/99, COM(99)474 final) we are advised to take no further action, but to copy the document to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. That is agreed.For document 446 (EC Ref No 10522/99, COM(99)406 final) we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 447 (EC Ref No 10525/99, COM(99)429 final) we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 232725,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed by the committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 232730,
      "EditedText": "On a similar procedural matter, document SP 345, which deals with boneless dried meat of bovine animals, was referred to the Rural Affairs Committee, which has met and considered it. The committee noted the document and decided that there were no matters of substance on which it wanted to report back to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documents",
      "HeadingID": 5998,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5998,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 232737,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, after I have sent the letter to the clerk of the Westminster committee, they bring it to the attention of the chair. I do not know whether they formally table the document or whether they circulate it to all members of the Westminster committee. At the moment, I believe, it is brought to the attention only of the chair. However, I can find out more details about exactly what happens."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5999,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ID": 5999,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 232741,
      "EditedText": "Has this SSI already come into force?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5999,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ID": 5999,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 232748,
      "EditedText": "We can find that out. Do we agree to note the instrument?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6000,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ID": 6000,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 232752,
      "EditedText": "It has been suggested—I will deal with this when I report on the meeting of the conveners group—that we should take the committee out of Edinburgh occasionally and also consider the use of rapporteurs on specific items. Once the responses to the consultation have been collated, we will need to do two things. We will have to appoint rapporteurs to meet specific organisations and discuss specific topics so that the committee can start to discuss issues of policy. We will also have to use the responses to consider whom we need to meet outside Edinburgh. That will have to be done soon so that arrangements can be made before the end of this financial year. If the clerk can produce a paper summarising the evidence for the meeting on 23 November, we can start to discuss whom we should meet, where we should meet them and what the key issues are for the appointment of rapporteurs. Between that meeting and the first meeting in December, we can firm up the committee's programme for the first months of next year. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 6000,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ID": 6000,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 232753,
      "EditedText": "You have asked us in the past—and I apologise that I have not responded—to identify to you any areas related to rapporteurships in which we have a particular interest. Would it be appropriate to try to collate those by 23 November? An area that particularly interests me is the challenge and opportunity that enlargement presents for Scotland and how Scotland could face up to that challenge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 232755,
      "EditedText": "Will David give a report on the meeting with the foreign affairs adviser to the Dutch Prime Minister on 27 October?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 232756,
      "EditedText": "The meeting went well, although I saw the thank you note and I did not make the same impact as Cathy. It was a useful meeting and, judging by the adviser's response, he found it useful too. The meeting helped him to understand the extent to which we are still evolving and gave him a greater understanding of the UK's unwritten constitution. Matters are not the same here as they are in the Netherlands and other countries that are accustomed to a firmer concept of relationships—I am thinking of relationships such as those that exist between the Parliament and United Kingdom institutions, and therefore between ourselves and Europe. In the main, we conveyed to the adviser the evolving nature of the arrangements here in Scotland and he found that useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 232771,
      "EditedText": "We will find out the time of the function. If Winnie is unavailable, Ben will try his utmost to be there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 232773,
      "EditedText": "The game is at Wembley, which will make that more difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 232777,
      "EditedText": "I cannot attend the function, as I am going to Prague next week on other business. However, I have indicated to the clerk that if there is anything useful that I can do while I am there, I will be happy to do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 232780,
      "EditedText": "I have been trying to take up the issue on behalf of the committee with the Parliament's legal office and other members of parliamentary staff. As the convener has said, any of you may attend the conference. If you do so and your fees are waived, the potential issue of paid advocacy arises. You can either reimburse the organisers and carry on as normal, or if you do not reimburse them and the fees are still waived, you will have to register that as a new interest and declare it. That would curtail to an extent what you may talk about during proceedings of the Parliament. That is the current advice. I know that other committees are addressing this matter. Staff of  the Parliament are aware of it, and it is being treated as a matter of urgency and priority, because it impacts on the ability of members to carry out their business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 232787,
      "EditedText": "The suggestion that we ask for written advice is a good one. I will also take the matter back to the conveners group. However, we need to decide what to do about the ESEC conference. As things stand at the moment, those members who have been nominated to attend must either pay their own way or, if they go at the request of ESEC, declare that, which could have implications for their future participation in related debates. We should write back to ESEC saying that we have some difficulties and that everything depends on whether individual members can resolve those. However, my feeling is that we should decline the invitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 232794,
      "EditedText": "For my own clarification, is this simply a matter of interpreting the legislation or is the problem with the legislation itself? It is important for the committee to understand the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ID": 6001,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 232795,
      "EditedText": "The legislation is quite clear on this matter. However, we will raise the matter with the conveners group and Stephen will bring it to the attention of the Procedures Committee and the Standards Committee. This strict ruling will affect much more than this particular conference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 232798,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 6001,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6001,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 232802,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Stephen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6002,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tilman Tögel (SPD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 232806,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) I would like to mention one particular aspect of the work of our Parliament. The Maastricht and Amsterdam treaties led to regional area administrations such as our regional Parliament. We got the opportunity to take part in European Union decisions.The Committee of the Regions has been a fixed institution since 1994. A lot of work has still to be done—and perhaps it will require a similar length of time for it to get the same powers as other institutions—but I think that the Committee of the Regions is already able to look after the interests of the region. It is also able to work on behalf of European regions to gain influence for them.I have asked my colleagues in other committees such as this one to make these meetings possible so that we can learn from each other. I have noticed that our Parliament has much more opportunity to get information direct from Brussels because I am a member of the Committee of the Regions. I want to ensure that we participate in the work of the Committee of the Regions in the future. That may also be important for the Scottish Parliament, as I know that Scotland is part of the Committee of the Regions, although I am sure that I do not need to take coals to Newcastle. I believe that it is important to give the legislature the opportunity to participate. Within Germany's federal structure, our Parliament can discuss European matters in the Bundesrat, but only in a fringe capacity. Nevertheless, it is important for our Parliaments to use those opportunities.Other regions profit from contact with the Committee of the Regions through cross-regional partnerships, networking and so on. That also brings opportunities for economic development, which is an important issue for us. Our region has immense structural and economic problems. After the fall of the wall, change occurred at an unprecedented pace in all industrial sectors—mining, the petrochemical industry and so on. Those changes led to large-scale unemployment. That is why we are interested in making regional contacts. Parliaments must take an interest in the work of the European Parliament, as it may be a stepping stone to supporting and maintaining economic contacts. I hope that the Scottish Parliament will support us in that. I know that a number of the Scottish Parliament's members are members of the Committee of the Regions. After 2002, things will be different. However, I hope that we will still be able to co-operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 232807,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 232809,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Detlef Gürth (CDU): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 232810,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) When I arrived this morning, I was reminded of when our Parliament first met, nine years ago. Our first session was held in a barracks and was very improvised. I thought back to those days and remembered that the first years, before all the administration was in place, were the most exciting and beautiful period. We could do as much as we wanted and put into practice everything that we wanted. Those days may never return. I hope that you will have a similar experience.When a new parliament is created, it is important that people realise what it is doing for them. In villages, towns and cities, people must be able to appreciate that the Parliament is doing something for them. The same applies to the European Union. In Saxony-Anhalt and Scotland, it is our task to tell people what the European Union gives us, what the funds are used for in our countries and what can be achieved. A number of useful programmes are in place. I would like to discuss the possibility of setting up joint programmes between Scotland and Saxony-Anhalt to inform people, as that is much more difficult to achieve alone. It will also be important to compare experiences of European programmes and of the Parliaments and to exchange information. I am sure that we can both learn from our experiences, to our mutual benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Budde: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 232815,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) I will start with the use of structural funds, linked to what we were talking about before: how to communicate to people on a local level about the distribution of funds. Between 1994 and 1999, we had strict guidelines on the three funds, particularly on regional development, social development and the creation of jobs. In contrast to what we heard from Strathclyde European Partnership yesterday, our regional Parliament linked the structural funds to national funds. We have tried to use them strictly on investment in infrastructure, and the European social fund was used primarily on getting people qualified, helping them to become self-employed or to get a job, and giving women employment opportunities. We concentrated the funds in particular areas. That was changed for the second period. The funds were then used for research and development. In the new funding period, it will change again. People can see how the funds are being used at local level: first, on an improved transport infrastructure; secondly, on programmes to assist unemployed people seeking further qualifications; and thirdly, on helping businesses and their staff as technological advances are made. Making those measures visible is a challenge and, like you, we have a duty to publicise them. Two years ago, we started making a conscious effort to ensure that projects do not run anonymously. The background is simple: the European Commission regulates and funds certain investments in our regional economy. In Sachsen-Anhalt, we had problems with larger enterprises that had been privatised, gone bankrupt and been privatised again. On every occasion, subsidies had to be approved by Brussels, which was difficult for everyone involved in those businesses. It was ultimately up to committees in Brussels to decide whether subsidies were justified. For that reason, two years ago we tried to explain that there are not just problems with Brussels, but that there are many positive aspects to our relationship with Europe such as new infrastructure and new jobs.Committee members might be interested to know that we want structural funds to be reorganised. We asked our Parliament to think about the content of the structural funds between 2000 and 2006; it recommended improvements to the structural funds. We tried to ensure that research and development and new communications technology were emphasised for use in business and other areas of life. We want that to be done in parallel with other important measures relating to business funding, employment and the agriculture sector. If you wish to know more, we can address the matter when we discuss INTERREG and areas of co-operation.There must be objectives when people talk. It is always easier for both sides to suggest ways of working, rather than just having a general discussion. Mr Tögel will speak briefly on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9466067+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tögel: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 232819,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) I will say a few words on the European work of the Bundesrat and the regional Parliament. Work on a European level is done by the federal Government, but the upper house recently started to do some European work. In the past, there was no opportunity for the upper house to be part of the debate. There was no opportunity to get the papers, to influence and lobby, to discuss European matters in committees or to tell regional Governments how to behave in their sessions. Whatever the upper house decided was not binding for the regional Government and Parliament. It was frustrating as that meant that we were always a step behind. That led to low interest in regional government.After 1994, the situation changed slightly. The Maastricht treaty allows for co-determination, so we are able to find out more about the work of the committees. The second option is that the federal Government can decide with the regional states which region will chair discussions with the federal Government. It could be one minister from a region who deals with the federal Government. Certain topics are discussed and decided by the federal Government and the region in conjunction.Irene Oldfather asked whether delegates could decide things themselves or whether they are tied to parliamentary decisions. Our interests within a region are independent of the federal Government. Usually members of the European Parliament, who belong to different parties, look after regional and local interests. That is the arrangement in our region. There are fewer arguments within parties, but on certain decisions delegates must hold the party line or decide to go against it. There is, however, no imperative mandate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 232827,
      "EditedText": "Are the two facts connected?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
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      "ID": 6002,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 232829,
      "EditedText": "That was an interesting response to a question about recording the procedures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
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      "ID": 6002,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gürth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 232830,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) Are there any meetings that are not in public? I could imagine that internal discussions have to take place, for example, if the committee is dealing with restricted materials or if it is talking to businesses about sensitive matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 232831,
      "EditedText": "This committee has held no meetings in private. I cannot think of any reason why we would have to. I am aware that committees will come together before a meeting to discuss what line of questioning to take in the meeting, but such occasions are few and far between. However, the committee would be bound to respect any wish for confidentiality that was expressed by the people who were being interviewed. The Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee might find itself in that situation, as might the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which deals with sensitive matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6002,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 232832,
      "EditedText": "I am a member of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. Our arrangement differs from that in Sachsen-Anhalt in that the committee links the issue of lifelong learning with that of enterprise. We have met in private when we have been briefed by local development organisations as we felt that that was the best way to ensure a full and frank exchange of views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 6002,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 232833,
      "EditedText": "Could I ask a brief question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Budde: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 232836,
      "EditedText": "(simultaneous interpretation) It depends."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1335
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visiting Delegation",
      "HeadingID": 6002,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6002,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 232839,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.9622318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2147,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 105534,
      "EditedText": "May I raise a genuine point of order?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 105540,
      "EditedText": "That is slightly different from what you said earlier, which suggested that, if matters arose that a member wanted to discuss, there would be no way to do so other than by a point of order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 105596,
      "EditedText": "I am here to hear the minister's views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 105689,
      "EditedText": "Before the end of this meeting, I would like the minister to indicate whether she is prepared to agree to a private briefing from her and her officials if, after we have heard her answers today, it is the view of this committee that it requires one. I do not think that that is asking too much of a minister who has been called before this committee to account for the situation regarding Hampden.I have one or two questions to put to the minister, but before I ask them, I would like to say how much I regret the tone of the letter she sent to this committee yesterday. I am sure that she will agree that the situation regarding Hampden is a matter of great public interest and great public importance—first because of the sporting significance of our national football stadium and, secondly, because significant sums of public money are involved in the project. She also knows that, over a period of weeks, there have been various unsuccessful attempts to elicit information from the Executive, both by this committee and by my colleague, Fiona McLeod. In the minister's letter, there is an implication that she resents being asked for information, a suggestion that by providing information she would somehow be doing this committee a favour, and a clear suggestion that this committee should be prepared to take at face value the Executive's assurances—notwithstanding the fact that, almost weekly, we read in the newspapers reports that contain information that this committee has repeatedly been denied. I do not think that that is a satisfactory way for a minister to treat a committee, and I hope that her answers this morning will go some way towards rectifying that.I have heard the minister's comments about commercial confidentiality. I hope that she will indicate later whether she is prepared to agree to a private briefing. I must say that I have heard nothing from her this morning that would stop her giving clear answers to questions about how the problems at Hampden arose and their full extent. Both matters should be clear from the interim consultants' report. I can think of no reason of commercial confidentiality that should prevent the minister providing us with those answers, and I ask her again to do so this morning.My second question relates to the rescue package. This morning, I would like the minister to give us more details about that, and particularly the £4.4 million. That is covered in some detail in the letter, which also lists the bodies from which the money will come. Is the minister aware of the fact that City of Glasgow Council, for example, has not agreed to provide a grant to deal with this situation and at the moment is considering whether any contribution that it makes should be by way of a loan, rather than a grant? It would seem that even the information in the letter is not up to date and accurate.This morning, we require some clear information from the minister—clear answers to very straightforward questions. The Executive should stop trying to hide behind the cloak of commercial confidentiality. The committee has a duty to the Scottish public and certain members of the committee are determined to carry out that duty, even if ministers would prefer us not to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 105695,
      "EditedText": "So you stifle information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8521454+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 105604,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for confirming something that has not been confirmed before, that Scottish Opera was at a critical stage and would have gone down next Wednesday. Those were your words. I find it incredible that a company in such a situation should have announced last week its intention to put on the Ring cycle—the operatic equivalent of putting a man on the moon—when it knew it was days away from bankruptcy. That says something extraordinary about the running of the company.However, let us put that to one side. You have not answered my question, minister. I asked whether you would give the committee an account of how such a situation arose, rather than telling us about its outcome. Will you answer that question now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 105606,
      "EditedText": "I would welcome Scottish Opera continuing to exist—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C105611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 105611,
      "EditedText": "Minister, the steps that you have taken are important, as jobs are at risk. When I suggested last week that we examine national companies, I imagined that we would begin by discussing Scottish Opera now. We need a wider picture. We need to ask the Arts Council, Scottish Opera and the other companies the kinds of questions that Mike has just asked. However, the Government's interim measure was necessary to prevent Scottish Opera from going to the wall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 105620,
      "EditedText": "It is true."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 105625,
      "EditedText": "I am insisting that we get a full report from the Arts Council and from Scottish Opera. There will be information available on that report when we get it. I am as keen as anyone else to find out what went wrong at Scottish Opera, but I am also keen to find a way forward. That is exactly what we have done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 105631,
      "EditedText": "When can we expect that process to be completed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 105632,
      "EditedText": "I cannot give you any indication of when that will be, but I will be pushing for it. Sam Galbraith has said that the process must be concluded as soon as possible so that we can move quickly to the next stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 105638,
      "EditedText": "I suggest Mike Russell."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 105640,
      "EditedText": "The £2.1 million is going to the joint board. I am sorry that members do not have the figures in front of them—they were made available to Parliament yesterday afternoon—but those that we have indicate a cash deficit in the current financial year of £3.3 million for the joint company. It is important that that £2.1 million is going to the joint company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 105649,
      "EditedText": "As I said, I ask the minister to circulate any letters to all committee members. I was not aware that it was down to me to photocopy letters for members of this committee. That is done elsewhere. I will make sure that there are procedures to ensure that that happens.The minister made reference to Hampden so we will move on to questions on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 105651,
      "EditedText": "The Executive recognises that this has caused great concern among fans and we very much regret that. I would welcome this committee contacting the SFA about the matter. Sam Galbraith has spoken with David Taylor, the chief executive of the SFA, and has asked that he report fully on what happened the next time that we meet him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 105652,
      "EditedText": "Could that report be copied to the committee for information so that we know what discussions have taken place between the Executive and the SFA? I seek guidance on when I should formally move that the committee write in the strongest possible terms to the SFA."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 105657,
      "EditedText": "We will share with the committee the information that comes back to us from the SFA. The committee has agreed to ask the SFA for a full report, and I welcome that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 105663,
      "EditedText": "Are you questioning the minister's speaking at this meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 105665,
      "EditedText": "So you are raising the point in the wider context, as an issue that must be addressed elsewhere?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105667",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 105667,
      "EditedText": "Fine. Okay."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 105668,
      "EditedText": "I shall touch on the matter of confidentiality. Given that Hampden is not in competition with another stadium, particularly, to what extent do you feel that client confidentiality—commercial confidentiality—limits you in giving us information from the consultant's report that was commissioned by the five core members?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105673",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 105673,
      "EditedText": "Would the Executive be willing to do so?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105675",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 105675,
      "EditedText": "If I can finish my question—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 105676,
      "EditedText": "Is that a no?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 105677,
      "EditedText": "Mike, will you let Brian finish his question?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 105679,
      "EditedText": "Once the deal has been done, we will look to share as much information as possible with the committee. Again I ask the committee to be supportive in what have been very difficult negotiations. This issue involves private companies and contractors, a degree of competition with other sports stadiums and commercially confidential information that I am not at liberty to divulge, because doing so would prejudice any agreement. We are looking for a positive outcome in the agreement. In Hampden we have a wonderful new national stadium, and nobody wants it to be closed. I hope that the committee recognises the work that has been done and the reasons for what I am saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 105683,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult for ministers to answer questions about requests that are not being made by the committee at this stage. Can we ask questions that we can have answered now? If, at the end of the presentation, the committee feels that it still does not have the necessary information, I will be happy to take forward Mike's suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 105684,
      "EditedText": "I am very surprised that I am not allowed to get an answer to a question that I have put in the committee."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105685",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 105685,
      "EditedText": "Mike, you know what answer the minister will give to that question, because we have had it before. We are trying to get as much information as we can at this stage. If, after we have done that, you feel that you want additional information and that one way of getting it would be to hold a meeting, we can ask the minister to attend a meeting that will be held in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105687",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 105687,
      "EditedText": "We will try to get the information, but if you are still not satisfied at the end I will come back to you."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105688",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 105688,
      "EditedText": "In my view, the minister is, unfortunately, being let off the hook on this matter."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105690",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 105690,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the letter I sent yesterday is already in the hands of the media, and I am very concerned about that. That underlines how cautious we have to be about issues to do with commercial confidentiality and about committing ministers to private briefings.I repeat that we are at a very sensitive and difficult stage in negotiations about Hampden. I recognise Nicola's concern about Hampden, as I share it. I am sure that we all share her concern and want to see a resolution of the difficulties regarding Hampden.I cannot comment on what Nicola has said about the letter. My information is that, of the £4.4 million rescue package, the Scottish Executive is contributing £2 million, the Millennium Commission £1.2 million, Glasgow Development Agency and sportscotland £500,000 each, and City of Glasgow Council £200,000. The package is subject to our receiving assurances about the future management of the project and to a viable business plan being adopted for the stadium. In due course, Sam Galbraith will make a full statement to the Parliament. As I have already said, I hope that the committee recognises the difficulty of the negotiations that have been taking place. We are not trying to keep information from this committee and the Parliament; we are seeking a solution to the problem."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105692",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 105692,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether you want me to keep repeating myself, convener. I have explained that the basis—"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 105696,
      "EditedText": "I hope that the committee will accept and endorse what I am saying."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105707",
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 105707,
      "EditedText": "She is saying the same again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 105712,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, I promised that Fiona could rejoin the debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 105715,
      "EditedText": "May I respond to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 105718,
      "EditedText": "When you raised the issue with me, it was a question of recalling the committee to meet to investigate the situation. That was what I said was not appropriate then. The committee is obviously investigating what is going on here. The minister is present and we will ask any relevant questions. I do not want this meeting to break down into a political discussion. Interruption. I ask Nicola Sturgeon not to interrupt me. I will ask her to speak when I have finished.It is important that we try to operate as a committee, to get as much information as possible on the issue, which is of concern to all members. When people make comments such as Fiona's, that is unhelpful to the workings of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 105719,
      "EditedText": "I ask for my dissent to be recorded. That ruling has no basis in the operations of the committee and it fails to recognise that Fiona is entitled to refer to the party of which she is a member. We should move on, but I want to record my dissent at that ruling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 105720,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. I now invite Brian to ask his question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 105723,
      "EditedText": "No. Who is contributing in addition to the £4.4 million? Who is filling the funding gap between the £4.4 million and the total rescue package?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 105727,
      "EditedText": "I shall continue with my line of questioning.Your letter also claims that \"there would be little point in borrowing money to pay off debts on the capital element of the project which the stadium operation could not realistically service.\"It is clear that the problem is one of capital; the stadium operation could not borrow the money, as it would not be able to service the debts. Later in your letter, you say:\"The project was always playing catch up in terms of the financing of the work because the full financial package was not in place when the redevelopment works began. It was known from the outset by all concerned that additional funding would need to be raised partly through a debenture scheme and partly through commercial sponsorship.\"Are we, therefore, saying that the reason for the appearance of the funding gap is that the commercial input was significantly less than it was in the business plan? Alternatively, is the reverse true: that the money came in, but the spending on the development was greater? Was it a combination of both?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 105733,
      "EditedText": "Your letter states that the Scottish cup final was staged successfully at the stadium, last May. It might have been successful in comparison with the previous old firm match. However, two other stadiums were available, at which that match could have been held. You have said that additional costs were incurred by accelerating the redevelopment to hold that cup final in May. Surely it would have been better to hold the cup final elsewhere. Why was the decision taken to accelerate the redevelopment and to build in extra costs that could not be met? Will the person who took that decision be held to account?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 105734,
      "EditedText": "We have to look to the future. We have a wonderful Scottish football stadium of which we can all be proud. There have been some cost overruns, the reasons for some of which I have specified. People were keen to see that match in Hampden and enjoyed the opportunity to visit the new stadium. I hope that we can go forward. We will have a rescue package in place shortly. Sam Galbraith will give a full statement to the Parliament, and I hope that we can all enjoy future matches in our new national stadium."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 105736,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask a question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 105737,
      "EditedText": "I indicated that I would like to ask a question about 15 minutes ago; Michael Russell and Brian Monteith have had several goes since then. I have nothing great to say, but I was before Michael.I welcome the detail that the minister gave in her second last response, about the pitch realignments and so on. It is reasonable that we should be made aware of such things, as they were responsible for the cost overrun. However, I wonder what the point is of our finding things out today that we will probably find out in a few weeks anyway. What difference does it make if we hear about confidential details today or three weeks later? It only causes a stushie. We will find out those details and examine them thoroughly. I want to know the answers as much as anybody else. When the detail is done and the package is secure, we can crawl all over it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 105739,
      "EditedText": "You might feel acrimonious and bad tempered but, mercifully, the other members of the committee are trying to have a constructive discussion about—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 105741,
      "EditedText": "Convener, may I be allowed to speak? I find the behaviour of some of the members of the committee very difficult to deal with. I hope that you note that.The committee has been given a letter from me that sets out the work that we have been doing to try to solve the problems at the Hampden stadium. I have given the committee details of the number of meetings that have been held. I assure members that the matter is important to us. That is reflected in the amount of work that we have done to find a solution.I hope that the committee recognises that work and the Executive's commitment to finding a solution. We think that it is important that we have a high-quality national stadium for football in Scotland for us all to enjoy. I also hope that the committee recognises that a full statement will be made to Parliament and that unhelpful remarks at this stage prejudice the debate that is going on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 105742,
      "EditedText": "I have a short supplementary question. With regard to the selling of the football tickets for Saturday, is the Executive satisfied with the arrangements that were made by the Scottish Football Association and, if not, what action does it intend to take?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 105744,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that answer, minister. The minister has kindly agreed to give us an extra 10 minutes of her time, so that the three members who are still waiting can ask their questions. I ask them to keep their questions brief."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 105748,
      "EditedText": "Again, Nicola, I am sorry that you are unhappy with the responses that I have given, but I have explained to the committee on many occasions that I am not able to give more information than is included in the letter.It seems eminently sensible to the co-funders that the SFA should be involved in the running of the stadium. We have said that there will be no further financial contribution until the new management structure is in place and the co-funders are satisfied that there is a fully developed business plan to show that the stadium operation is viable in the long term.With the SFA, we have explored the role that the SFA could play in the future management of the stadium and in making the business plan as robust as possible. That seems to be a sensible way to move, given that the SFA will be using the stadium for international matches. I hope that the committee recognises the importance of involving the SFA in that process, just as it is important that the Scottish Rugby Union be involved in Murrayfield."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 105758,
      "EditedText": "You are quite entitled to write a submission for your party."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 105763,
      "EditedText": "Like you, convener, I have a general aversion to private meetings. However, over a number of months we have had difficulty obtaining some information on Hampden about which we have real questions. That information has been withheld from us because of commercial confidentiality. Members of the committee would be reassured if we had a private meeting at which the Executive could brief us fully on the background to the problem.That said, we are not the Scottish Executive but a committee of the Parliament. It is not crucial that we receive that private briefing before the conclusion of the deal, because it would not enable us to facilitate the deal. It would simply mean that we had the same information as the Executive. However, it is important that we have the briefing. The minister was rather equivocal about whether she would agree to that, even following a deal, but it is important that we ask to have that opportunity, so that we can be reassured about what has happened—we can ask about what has gone wrong and what mistakes might be avoided in future. I want the briefing to take place before the minister's statement to Parliament, as there would be no point in our having it after that. It is important that the committee is briefed between the deal being concluded and the minister attending our meeting. That compromise would give us the information that we require when it would be useful to committee members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 105765,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Brian Monteith. There is a time and a place for everything. The negotiations are such that we can play no constructive part in them. If we are briefed privately, we cannot do anything with that information. The suggestion that we have the briefing before the announcement is made to Parliament is helpful, and I support Brian's suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 105767,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 105771,
      "EditedText": "I move,"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 105775,
      "EditedText": "There will be a division."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 105778,
      "EditedText": "Amendment disagreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 105789,
      "EditedText": "Although I do not disagree with that suggestion, we will run into timing difficulties if we invite everyone. Could we ask the British Council to provide us with a written submission?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 105792,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that, but I think that the British Council should be approached for a written submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 105794,
      "EditedText": "We could adequately deal with the national companies through the interface between the Scottish Arts Council and the companies themselves. I have three further points. First, we should invite submissions from any member of the public who wishes to submit evidence—at this stage, such evidence should be in writing rather than in person. The clerk should publicise the inquiry through the parliamentary press office. More witnesses may emerge as a result of those submissions. Secondly, we need a full and comprehensive introductory statement from each person who gives evidence to us. They should be asked to provide that in writing at least three or four days before we are due to take evidence from them. That is a tight time scale, but this is an important matter.Thirdly, at our most recent meeting, I suggested that we should ask researchers to produce for the committee a briefing document on the national companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2149,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 105796,
      "EditedText": "We must also get written material from each company and from those giving evidence. There is a lot of enthusiasm for this inquiry and the companies will want to give us written material, as it is in their interests to do so, but it must be received in time for us to read it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2149,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 105797,
      "EditedText": "I will certainly tell them that. The next witnesses are due to appear here next week and have been alerted to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2149,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 105798,
      "EditedText": "It is essential that Scottish Opera gives us factual information and is prepared to answer questions fully and constructively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 568.0,
      "ContributionID": 105805,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 is the excellence and equity conference on 9 December. The committee will have had a chance to consider this. Are any members interested in attending? The conference is important, but I understand that there may be difficulties over the time scale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105807",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 105807,
      "EditedText": "It is an invitation to attend as an observer, so that we are informed about issues that may arise from the improvement in the education bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 105810,
      "EditedText": "I understand that there is a budget to enable committee members to attend conferences. I do not suggest that we start eating into it but, in view of some of our discussions, I think that this conference will be useful. I suggest that the committee send me or a substitute to represent it at the conference. We can feed back information to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2150,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 105811,
      "EditedText": "This may sound stupid: I think that I will be attending that conference—I think that I have been invited as a speaker—but I am not sure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 105812,
      "EditedText": "Do we agree to send our chair or a substitute, but that if we find out in the meantime that Fiona is attending and will not have to pay, she should go on our behalf?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 606.0,
      "ContributionID": 105824,
      "EditedText": "Would it be possible, when we are questioning only one witness in the chamber, to have that witness sit in front of where the minister sat, and for us to sit rather closer to them? The current set-up is a bit theatrical."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ContributionID": 105826,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:12."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 105528,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order. Yesterday, there was an announcement on Scottish Opera, but to my knowledge, none of the committee members has been provided with a copy of it. The announcement is obviously germane to our questioning and it was recorded in last week's Official Report that we wanted to ask about the matter.A statement has been made that has financial implications, and the Minister for Children and Education has not had the courtesy to copy it to us. That is immensely regrettable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 105531,
      "EditedText": "When we reach the Hampden project on the agenda, you can raise that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 105532,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order. Is it in order, as this is the last meeting of the committee before the two Scotland v England games, for us to send our warmest best wishes to the Scotland team?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 105533,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but that is not a point of order. Can members please remember not to make points of order that are not points of order?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport (Rhona Brankin): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 105543,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the opportunity to describe to the committee the progress that we have made on developing a national cultural strategy and to engage with members of the committee. We have a valuable opportunity this morning to have a two-way discussion about the national cultural strategy.The national cultural strategy will deal with much more than the role and funding of the national companies. However, I recognise and welcome that members of the committee have decided to take a special interest in that aspect. I recognise that events at Scottish Opera are relevant to our discussion today; Sam Galbraith gave a full account yesterday of the action that the Scottish Executive has taken to secure a stable future for Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet. I know that a copy of the answer was sent from the minister's office and I regret that it did not arrive. However, answers to parliamentary questions are available to the Parliament as a matter of course. If members have any questions, I will do my best to answer them. I will also be pleased to answer questions on the matters that I set out in yesterday's letter on Hampden.I will set out the position on the cultural strategy briefly and then will answer questions. I look forward to hearing the views of the committee on how the cultural strategy process can be made as constructive and helpful as possible.We launched the strategy on 10 August with the document, \"Celebrating Scotland\", which members will have seen and will be familiar with by now. Responses were asked for by the end of October, and we have had more than 200. It became clear, however, that some respondents will need a little more time; we have granted extensions to the deadline. Nevertheless, we would like to have comments by the middle of the month. By the end of November, it will be difficult to accommodate comments properly in the analysis of and report on the consultation.We have set up a series of 12 public meetings. The first was held in Aberdeen on 29 September and the latest in Edinburgh last night.  Audiences have ranged from 30 in Galashiels to an impressive 70 in Ullapool. The Scottish Executive is also investigating the feasibility of holding a consultation meeting for the Highlands and Islands using the videoconferencing network of the University of the Highlands and Islands. If that proves to be workable, we will publicise it widely in advance.In addition to the public meetings, we have had the benefit of a meeting that was arranged by Glasgow City Council to gather the views of ethnic minority communities. A meeting to gather the views of children and young people is being organised by Glasgow City Council for the end of November. We felt strongly that we wanted to get views from as many people and age groups as possible.Analysing and preparing a report on the responses will be a large task. We have engaged consultants, Bonnar Keenlyside, to assist with the work. That firm was recruited after a competitive tender in which six firms were invited to bid.It is premature to speculate on the outcome of the consultation at this stage, but some key themes are emerging: the importance of education and young people; the role that the arts and heritage can play in contributing to social inclusion and the rebuilding of communities; the links to sport and tourism; and the potential of the creative industries to enhance cultural and economic life in Scotland. I expect those themes to be followed up in the next stage of the strategy.The focus group has met twice and is scheduled to meet again in early December. Members have been busy attending and chairing the public meetings. Three people outwith the focus group have chaired meetings for us. I am grateful to all the people who have given, and will give, generously of their time for this exercise.As well as the broad generic themes that I identified, the strategy will need to define a place for the national companies. That will be a question not just of funding. We must also consider the concept of national companies, the areas of artistic activity that they cover and the role that it is right for them to play in the nation's cultural life. Of course, funding will be an important issue. I referred to the statement made by Sam Galbraith yesterday on Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet; we expect that the funding announced in that statement will provide an opportunity for the new joint company to plan a stable future.It is also right to mention the place of the national institutions—the museums, galleries and libraries—and their relations with local museums and galleries, some of which, in Glasgow for example, operate on a large scale.As members will be aware from the document \"Celebrating Scotland\", we also have regard to Scotland's unique built heritage. In addition, we are keeping in mind the important and close connection between the development of the cultural strategy and our separate initiative on architecture.We have to give much attention at the moment to the national companies—that is understandable—but I want to assure the committee and the people of Scotland that that is not tunnel vision on the Executive's part. Our aim is to develop a broadly based policy for culture, within which creativity in all the art forms can flourish. One further reassurance that I want to give before I talk about football is that we will certainly not forget the traditional arts in Scotland—music, song and poetry—whether they are expressed in Gaelic or Scots. Our traditions are the essential fibres that we will all weave within the tapestry of Scotland's new millennium.I undertook to give the committee a brief report on Hampden and on the strenuous efforts that have been made to resolve the financial problems surrounding the national football stadium. The position is set out in the very full letter that I sent to the convener yesterday. Broad agreement was reached in mid-October on a rescue package to which the Scottish Executive would contribute £2 million, subject to certain terms and conditions. Much work was still needed, however, before the package could be signed, sealed and delivered. Considerable progress has been made in the past three weeks, but sensitive negotiations and discussions are still taking place.I hope that the committee will understand that it would be improper for me to disclose details at this stage. Ministers do not want to prejudice or pre-empt the outcome of the current negotiations. We remain optimistic that a satisfactory solution to the present problems will be found shortly. A magnificent national football stadium has been built; we should not overlook that fact. What is needed now is to cap all the hard work by restoring confidence in the project. We want the people of Scotland to be justly proud of the national football stadium and the excellent facilities that have been provided there."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 105551,
      "EditedText": "What has been suggested about the enterprise companies is important. Jamie Stone probably knows more than I do about the model in the Highlands and Islands, but I have been impressed by the partnership that has been forged there between Highlands and Islands Enterprise, the Scottish Arts Council and the tourist board. That group of partners works together because the importance of culture to economic development is clearly recognised. We could look at that model and similar models in other parts of Scotland. Perhaps—I suggest this to Ian Jenkins—we could consider such a partnership in the Borders. I recently attended a meeting in Galashiels, at which the strength and depth of feeling for our indigenous culture—and how passionately people wanted to be able to support that—was very clear. A cultural strategy officer has been appointed in the Borders.Local enterprise companies have a clear role to play in the recognition of the importance of culture. Heavens, look at the importance of culture to Edinburgh, or to Glasgow, the city of architecture. Culture is terrifically important and local enterprise companies have a central role to play in local partnerships that will benefit the local economy.Like Ian Jenkins, I have been involved in schools and various productions over the years. I think that we all recognise the importance to children's learning of access to music tuition and drama productions. Recent research has shown that such access has an impact on children's levels of attainment. Music or drama should be not an optional extra, but an important part of the curriculum. Those subjects help to develop youngsters' self-esteem and self-confidence; that has a knock-on effect on their learning. We must consider how such tuition is funded. For example, Midlothian Council has a development officer for silver bands, and the bands work closely with the schools. We also have school sports co-ordinators; perhaps we should consider a similar way of getting some arts funding into schools. We can look at that.I accept everything that has been said about the importance of giving youngsters access to music, the arts and drama."
    },
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  },
  {
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 105555,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to ask a separate question."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 105556,
      "EditedText": "I have a list of people who want to ask questions. Fiona McLeod and Jamie Stone were before you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 105557,
      "EditedText": "I completely welcome what the Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport is saying, particularly on the link between music and other forms of education, about which there is now scientific evidence. I should declare an interest at this stage. I am a director of the Highland festival. The minister and Ian Jenkins are right. Music tuition is down to the charging policy, which is a sticky question. This matter crossed all political boundaries in Highland, where we had a huge argument about instrumental charging for the children's lessons. Although the matter lies in the hands of local authorities, it would be helpful if we could give them a steer. I knew of cases in which children dropped out of instrumental instruction because their parents simply could not afford it. We have had a renaissance of music in the Highlands. I got free lessons when I was at Tain Royal Academy, although I learned how to play the fiddle only to avoid playing football, which is ironic given what we are about to discuss. There has been a complete change in the Highlands over the past 20 years. The involvement of local enterprise companies is a key—the minister may want to comment further on that. It is something that we can show to the rest of Scotland.I want to change tack with my next point. We have a linguistic culture in the Highlands that varies hugely. In some cases, certain words and styles of speaking are beginning to disappear. May I push you on what your thoughts and those of your department are on trying to preserve and encourage that diversity of culture? If we do not act fairly quickly, some things will disappear, which would impoverish Scottish culture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 105561,
      "EditedText": "This came up in the committee's discussion with Sam Galbraith and Peter Peacock. It has now come up in this discussion with Rhona Brankin. On both occasions, it has been returned to me to see whether I have any suggestions. The committee has accepted that we will take this matter forward and we are doing so—I am now the rapporteur. However, we have not seen evidence that the Executive takes this matter seriously and considers young people a fundamental part of the consultation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 105564,
      "EditedText": "It strikes me that we should be hearing from the minister. There seem to be a lot of rambling questions—some of the contributions do not seem to contain questions. Could we have short, sharp questions, so that we can hear more of what the minister says, rather than what the members of the committee have to say?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105567",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 105567,
      "EditedText": "Brian, we are also taking comments from committee members. It is important that members make their views known to the minister on the cultural strategy. However I appreciate what you are saying—it is always difficult to get everyone in. Rest assured that you will be after Mike Russell, who is next."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105568",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 105568,
      "EditedText": "I will not be as censorious as Brian Monteith; I will take my time. Brian has pointed out one important thing that is germane to what I want to ask the minister. In the past 20 or 25 minutes of questioning, the minister has heard what she will have identified at the meetings that she has been holding—that culture is a matter of individual passion for and commitment to a range of things. Some of those things are shared. Cathy Peattie has been talking about traditional music. I have an interest in opera—which, with other matters, I want to come on to later. Jamie has an interest in Geri Halliwell and the Spice Girls. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 105570,
      "EditedText": "We all have our interests. That, however, can become squashy and amorphous. I want to ask about strategy. You, minister, are responsible to the Parliament for producing the document. It is headed \"A National Cultural Strategy\". You have told us that there have been 200 replies and that you are hoping for more. That is encouraging. I have been asking the organisations that I have been speaking to—despite my reservations about this approach—to submit information and ask questions. You have all that material. You will get more material. You have appointed consultants to analyse it. What happens next? Talk us through the process and the outcomes. Are we talking about legislation, or about reviews of existing bodies? It seems that you will accumulate a huge range of ideas and initiatives—and some criticism—from existing bodies, but the further I look into the crystal ball, the less clear I am about what you want to achieve as a minister in terms of setting a national cultural strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 105576,
      "EditedText": "That could come through the strategy. I feel passionate about traditional Scottish music and art forms, and the submissions that we have received on the cultural strategy contain strong views on those issues, which we must consider. I stress that we must not shy away from those issues. One of the beauties of the Scottish Parliament is that we have a chance to debate and discuss such issues and to decide our priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 105577,
      "EditedText": "I agree. You talked about silver bands. Flute bands are a traditional form of music in areas such as Midlothian, East Lothian, West Lothian and through to Ayrshire—Ian Welsh will be familiar with them. Flute bands seem to have had some difficulty in attracting support from the Scottish Arts Council, although they are traditional in Scotland. What is your view on giving financial support to flute bands?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 105581,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is necessarily our function to interrogate ministers all day. I am interested in pursuing Brian. Does he believe that Scottish Opera's money should be cut?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105585",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 105585,
      "EditedText": "We could ask all members of the committee that question. However, over the next three weeks, when we are conducting our inquiry into the national companies, members' views on funding those companies will become plain. I will not ask Brian to answer that question now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105587",
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      "ID": 529
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 105587,
      "EditedText": "You may, Jamie."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105589",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 105589,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point. I accept that, in the past, too many people have associated culture with what are called the high arts. However, at consultation meetings, people have given strong views on what constitutes culture for them. For example, at the meeting in Galashiels, there was a heated debate about the role of sport in culture—rugby is an important part of the culture in the Borders. We do not want to say that the Government believes that this or that is the right culture—the strategy does not attempt to do that. This is an enabling strategy, which will allow Scotland to become culturally healthier. In no way does it prescribe the kind of culture that people should take part in. That said, we need to be clear about the importance of protecting and developing our indigenous companies, for example. We will have to make choices in a context where funding is limited. As you say, Jamie, culture means many things to many different people—it often depends on the part of the country in which they live."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105591",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 105591,
      "EditedText": "When we talk about culture, we should talk about more than just money. We need to get away from harking back to resources all the time. There are many imaginative and innovative examples of the promotion of culture in Scotland, of which not all require money. For example, I have already talked about the involvement of Highlands and Islands Enterprise with the Arts Council and the local tourist board. We need to consult minority ethnic communities. We recognise that Scotland is a multicultural society and the document welcomes the diversity of Scottish culture. We have involved ethnic communities in several public meetings. For example, in Aberdeen and Glasgow, the local authorities helpfully contacted ethnic minority groups on our behalf. We are committed to consultation with those groups. At the end of the consultation period, if we do not believe that there have been enough submissions from ethnic minority groups, we will approach them to ask for their views. I assure you, Nicola, that I welcome your concern in this area. We must take on board the views of all groups in Scotland. If, at the end of the consultation period, we are unhappy about the input from ethnic minority groups, we will go out and contact them specifically to ask for their views."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105593",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 105593,
      "EditedText": "I must correct Nicola. When I was vice-chairman of finance in Highland Council, we had a bitter argument about charging children for instrumental instruction. It is not always the case that that argument is about resources—it is about policy and imagination. In order to get rid of the charges, I used the argument—which I still use—that instrumental instruction does not cost too much after the cost of administering the system and so on is removed. I must pick you up on that point, Nicola. You may be right in some of the cases, but you are not always right in the case of instrumental instruction. If the minister is working towards a ministerial statement on that subject, I will welcome it with open arms. I think that you should, too, Nicola. We should not be churlish about it. Let us hope that the charges go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 105600,
      "EditedText": "When we set out the consultation on the cultural strategy, we were aware that the Scottish Sports Council had already undertaken a two or three-year consultation on developing the Sport 21 strategy, which every party and, indeed the Executive, recognised as a far-reaching vision for Scotland's sport.No one will deny that sport is a very important part of Scotland's culture. I am happy to look at any submissions about the importance of sport in the cultural strategy, as culture in its widest sense can incorporate sport. However, as a clear strategy for sport has already been set out, with established targets, I do not want to reopen a consultation that has gone on for years and has received much recognition. We need to knit sport and culture together to provide an all-encompassing approach to Scottish life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2147,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 105527,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:35"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2147,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 105530,
      "EditedText": "There has been tremendous speculation about tickets for the England v Scotland game. Can I clarify that we will be able to ask questions about that when we deal with the Hampden project later?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2147,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 105535,
      "EditedText": "You may, if it is genuine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2147,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 105541,
      "EditedText": "There is no agenda item called any other competent business. That is because items have to be advertised as being on the agenda. I try to be flexible and let members raise matters at the beginning of meetings. However, if something is not a point of order, please do not try to disguise it as one. If members have legitimate questions, I will take them.I am trying to ensure that committee members can raise matters, but we know that we cannot put things on the agenda willy-nilly because we aim to be as open as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 105546,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Cathy's comments. Traditional music and indigenous art forms are important to any Scottish cultural strategy. That point was made strongly at the meeting in Ullapool. More than 70 people attended that meeting and much discussion took place about, for example, access to tuition on traditional musical instruments. The national cultural strategy will have to address that issue. In my experience, there seems to be a fair amount of discrepancy in the delivery of instrumental tuition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 105544,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I remind members that the minister will be here until 11.30 am. I suggest, therefore, that we take the next hour to discuss the cultural issues, then at around 10.45 am, we will move on to the Hampden situation. That will be the easiest way to ensure that everyone can contribute. We will start with the cultural strategy. Members should indicate to me if they have questions or comments for the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C105545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 105545,
      "EditedText": "On my way in this morning, I met a journalist who asked what we were going to talk about and what was important in Scotland. He thought that Hampden was the most important subject in Scotland today; I do not agree. I support and place great importance on the whole concept of traditional and folk music and recognise the value of the indigenous arts to Scotland. I suggested to Mike Russell earlier that we should give a couple of bursts of \"Freedom Come All Ye\"—given that Hamish Henderson's birthday is so near—but Mike reckoned that we would never be forgiven.It is important that we have this opportunity to discuss our traditional arts, not least because of their economic value to tourism. It makes my blood boil when I visit tourist information centres, woollen mill shops and other such places and find that the music available there is of the heather and haggis, granny's Hieland hame variety. I cringe at that; people visit Scotland and enjoy traditional Scottish music, yet it is hard to find in the shops.We must consider how the strategy values traditional music and how that music is resourced. Traditional music will continue only if our children learn about and appreciate it. Children in schools and people in communities must have the opportunity to learn and to have that valuable music passed on to them. Resources must be available for schoolteachers and others, to help our young people to benefit from the music.I do not know the content of the submissions, but I expect that they will emphasise the value of traditional music and the importance of providing resources for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 105548,
      "EditedText": "A research report—due to be published any day now by the Scottish Council for Research in Education—will examine instrumental tuition in schools. I understand that the report will point out wide discrepancies in provision by different local authorities, with which the responsibility lies. Some local authorities provide tuition free of charge, but others make a charge; that discrepancy needs to be addressed. Given that we are committed to increasing access to the arts, we cannot have a situation where access to such tuition is available only to families that can afford to pay for it. I will talk to Sam Galbraith and Peter Peacock about that. It is clear that the subject of young people and culture is represented strongly in the submissions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 105549,
      "EditedText": "I totally agree with that, and I am pleased to hear that Rhona Brankin will work with Sam Galbraith and Peter Peacock on that. Music gives lifelong advantages; I did maths and have forgotten it all, but what people learn about music lives with them for all time. If children learn to play instruments, they can join groups such as the local silver band; there is considerable community gain from individual learning.Music and tuition must be at the heart of an inclusive cultural strategy. Drama is also important. We must get people to participate at an early stage; that will have benefits for the local community and the whole country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 105552,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Jamie Stone is next, then Fiona McLeod."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 105554,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, Mike. Did you want to come in on that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 105559,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to fall out with Cathy Peattie but, as we are discussing popular cultural events, I have to tell her that I do not think that 17,000 people have all been trying to get opera tickets at 9.01 on a Friday morning.Our conversation has developed around culture for young people within education and around what we see as the benefits of culture for young children. I am concerned about that—we should properly involve young people in consultation, not impose our ideas on them. I want to pick up on what the minister said. At the end of November, Glasgow City Council will hold an event to gather the views of young people on the cultural strategy. That is only one event to speak to young people in the whole of Scotland. Rhona has told us that the consultation period finished at the end of October. She said that she would extend it to the middle of this month, but that contributions after that might be difficult to incorporate in the analysis. I raised this matter with Sam Galbraith in the chamber. When we talk about consulting young people, we must be serious. Consultation must not be an add-on. It must be part of every piece of legislation. We must go out and say to young people, \"Be involved in the process.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 105563,
      "EditedText": "If we are asking local authorities for responses, there should be an expectation that, as part of their submissions to the Government, they will contact or consult organisations or arrange for organisations such as youth services to consult young people. Local authorities and youth services are ideally placed to work with young people in the broadest sense, across all the divides. We need to break down some of the stereotypes about young people in terms of culture and the arts and how we engage them in discussion. The publication of a document such as \"Celebrating Scotland\" is perhaps not the most useful way of engaging young people. We need to look at some of the marketing surrounding consultation; we must ensure that it attracts young people's contributions and does not just allow them to contribute without necessarily expecting them to do so. We need to expect contributions in such a way that young people from the widest spectrum of Scottish life will want to respond and will feel included, and not just through the youth parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 105569,
      "EditedText": "Strike that from the record. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 105571,
      "EditedText": "I hope that as many people as possible contribute to the process. I hope that you and your party will also contribute, Mr Russell. I welcome the fact that this committee is talking about the cultural strategy. When we set up the Scottish Parliament, we said that committees would operate in a new way and would be involved in developing policy. That is why I welcome the opportunity to have this discussion. The Executive has to be able to draw up a programme of policy actions. I want the cultural strategy to take into account people's views—we will, I hope, receive a lot more than the 200 responses so far. Those views will encompass a range of things. I have already indicated some of the issues that will come through—a concern about young people in education and about indigenous culture. Some issues that arise from the submissions will require the Government to do something. Let us consider instrumental tuition in schools. There is already an indication that we may have to examine that. I want, in reading the submissions, to be able to articulate a vision for Scotland. What does a healthy, cultural Scotland look like? What happens when culture is alive and well in Scotland? What sort of things will people be doing? We have to be able to set out the aims for a healthy, cultural Scotland. If we want to achieve that, we have to establish how to go about it and what steps the Government will take. It is too early to say what those steps will be, but there will be implications for education and for how local enterprise companies work with cultural organisations in their area. There will also be implications for local authorities. We have to be clear about what a healthy, cultural Scotland looks like and then determine the necessary steps to be taken over a period of years. We will need to set clear targets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 105574,
      "EditedText": "As you know, we had strong reservations but, as you have said that you are not ruling anything out, I take you at your word. We will submit information to you. However, as the strategy develops, I hope that we will have the opportunity to reflect on the fact that almost every organisation—I suspect—will say to you that the resource base is inadequate, particularly with regard to local authority funding. I am not criticising local authorities, which are themselves short of resources. However, local authority funding has not been replaced with private money as often as it should have been, which has led to a shortage of resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 105575,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the animated replies from the minister. We are getting closer to the heart of the matter. The vision of the minister becoming a Spice Girl for the arts in Scotland is most interesting—I am sure that Jamie would agree. I want to talk about priorities and the strategy. Initially, we touched on traditional music, which is funded to the tune of about £250,000. A non-traditional form of music—Scottish Opera—was, before yesterday's announcement, funded to the tune of £6.1 million. Minister, do you see a place in the strategy—in the vision—for changing priorities? For example, one could say that, although Scottish Opera is important, greater priority should be given to supporting indigenous forms of music and art. The strategy may not lead to the removal of funding altogether from other, imported forms of high art but it could lead to greater priority being given to forms of Scottish art, which find it harder to gain private support."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 105580,
      "EditedText": "Dear oh dear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 105582,
      "EditedText": "Ian—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 105584,
      "EditedText": "We are here to question the minister. I am quite happy to give my view publicly outside this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 105588,
      "EditedText": "Minister, Brian has touched on an interesting point. How will you package the word \"culture\"? If I were to mention culture at the Lairg sheep sales or in a queue for fish and chips, a lot of people would think that I was talking about blokes in tights prancing about on the stage. Culture is a loaded word. Although I congratulate you on receiving 200 replies, that is not a huge amount, given the population of Scotland. How will you get people to take on board the fact that culture belongs to them, rather than to a lot of arty-farties?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 105595,
      "EditedText": "With respect, Nicola, that is not rhetoric. It is not always about money. I can show you books and accounts that would prove that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 105598,
      "EditedText": "I am anxious that we should move on because of the time. I will bring in Karen, and then Mike Russell."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 105601,
      "EditedText": "I know that members want to ask questions about Scottish Opera. The committee is about to launch an inquiry into national companies, including Scottish Opera, and we will be discussing how to pursue that issue. This morning, I received a copy of Mr Galbraith's written answer to Malcolm Chisholm's question. I hope that other members have also received the text of the answer, although I see that a few members are shaking their heads. It might have been useful for committee members to have seen this written answer yesterday to give them time to digest it before speaking to you. Committee members should be given such information as soon as it becomes available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 105603,
      "EditedText": "Mike, I am quite surprised that you have not welcomed yesterday's announcement about putting £2.1 million into the board of Scottish Opera. The board of Scottish Opera was due to meet on Wednesday and was at the stage at which it might have ceased to trade. We are not prepared to play politics with the more than 200 jobs at Scottish Opera. The Government has moved swiftly, and I hope that we get some recognition for doing so.Scottish Opera has been given this money for a year. The new chair will have three months to formulate plans about securing funding for the company. We are concerned to keep the company afloat at this stage. That should not pre-empt any committee inquiry into the role of national companies in Scotland and their funding. We put £2.1 million into Scottish Opera because we were not prepared to see the company go down the tubes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 105605,
      "EditedText": "No, I am not able to give you such an account. I can tell you only what happened when we discovered this situation. Sam Galbraith has asked for a full report on how the situation arose and what the company intends to do about it. However, we do not have that full report yet. I can report back to the committee when we have that information.This situation happened only recently. The Arts Council officially informed us at the beginning of October of the difficulties experienced by the new chief executive, Adrian Trickey, since his appointment at the beginning of September. We have had many meetings with the Arts Council and have resolved the situation by injecting cash into Scottish Opera to prevent the company from becoming insolvent. We have asked for a full report from Scottish Opera and the Arts Council to ensure that the situation does not happen again. I hope that the committee will welcome that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 105608,
      "EditedText": "However, you are actually saying that you have put £2.1 million of taxpayers' money into an organisation that might have some kind of financial vortex into which the money might be sucked. You might have to put in another £2.1 million next week.Is it responsible for a department to put money into an organisation without knowing the cause of the problem? On the other hand, if you know the cause of the problem, why will you not tell the committee and the public in Scotland, to whom the money belongs? It is either one way or the other. Either you do not know the cause of the problem, in which case it is irresponsible to put the money in at this stage; or you do know, and for some reason will not tell a committee of the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 105610,
      "EditedText": "I hope that you will encourage companies to give more information to the committee than you have given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 105613,
      "EditedText": "Your answer to Mike's question about when you were first aware of Scottish Opera's difficulties is very interesting. You said that it was in early October. You have also explained that Scottish Opera was in danger of going into receivership. Do we have any information about what form of financial crisis Scottish Opera was in? Was the company in debt that was supported by an overdraft, or was the crisis caused by unpaid creditors? Before an organisation is bailed out in this way, it is important to know what kind of financial predicament it is in.Furthermore, you said that the board might have called in the receivers next Wednesday. Given that the company had to have made some decisions—such as staging its critically acclaimed \"Macbeth\" at the Edinburgh International Festival in August—sometime before, is not it possible that Scottish Opera might have been trading illegally for a considerable time? In that case, there is a danger that the members of the current board could be struck off. To what extent are you satisfied that Scottish Opera's difficulties have happened only recently?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 105617,
      "EditedText": "I remind you, Brian, that the remit for the inquiry is on our agenda. If the committee agrees, I hope that we will examine the proposals for a national theatre."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 105618,
      "EditedText": "This morning, we have found out a number of things that we did not know, but it is a pity that we did not know them before. One of those things is the alarming imminent bankruptcy of Scottish Opera. We have also found out the breathtaking true scale of their financial problems.In her letter about Hampden the minister says that the consortium of organisations that put in £4.4 million attached two main conditions to their providing a further financial contribution. Those were that a new management structure for the operation of the stadium was to be put in place and that the co-funders were to be satisfied that there was a fully developed business plan. The Government wanted stringent conditions attached to Hampden. Why is it that all it wants for the £2.1 million it is to give to Scottish Opera is a report in three months' time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 105619,
      "EditedText": "That is not true."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 105622,
      "EditedText": "Why are you not passionate to know why this money has disappeared? Why, as a steward of public finance, will not you push this issue? You appear keen, in fact, to simply move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 105623,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely not. The Executive is keen to find out what is happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 105624,
      "EditedText": "What has happened?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 105630,
      "EditedText": "The chair of the new merged company's board, in consultation with the Scottish Arts Council, will appoint members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 105633,
      "EditedText": "The committee would appreciate being kept informed about all developments relating to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 105634,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. I will furnish the committee with a time scale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 105636,
      "EditedText": "Mike Russell was quite right to bring this subject up and, in fairness, the minister has responded frankly. None of us would argue with the offer of a lifeline to Scottish Opera.This committee should put out the message that those who presided over that shambles should fall on their swords if they have not already done so. We should also signal that it is entirely unacceptable to the Parliament that any of the personnel responsible remain in place. I expect to see a completely new board. There must be a clean sweep."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 105639,
      "EditedText": "The minister mentioned that the funding is for the new joint board. A report in The Herald today states that the deficit for the joint company is in the region of £3.3 million, whereas the Scottish Opera deficit is £2.5 million. Is the minister saying that £2.1 million will go towards a projected deficit of £3.3 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 105641,
      "EditedText": "For the minister's benefit, I would like to suggest that when information is sent to us, it should also be sent to the parties' business managers, as they are particularly effective in ensuring that we definitely get important information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 105642,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, we want members to get information as soon as it becomes available. Anything that can assist in that process will be useful.We will move on to discuss Hampden. I am conscious that there may be issues relating to cultural strategy that we have not yet raised. We will come back to those issues when we have discussed the Hampden situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 105643,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a point of order. The letter from Rhona Brankin dated 8 November says that Sam Galbraith wrote to Mary Mulligan on 19 September and 14 October. Committee members received a copy of a letter from Sam Galbraith to you, Mary, dated 14 September. We have a copy of one letter that was not mentioned in the letter from Rhona. Were two letters received? When was the second letter received and why were not copies circulated to members?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 105644,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that there were two letters and that both were circulated to members. I have a copy of the second one, which I will find, but the general procedure is that if a letter comes to me, it is copied to the committee. I am not sure why that did not happen. Perhaps Gillian will comment on that. Did it come through your office, Gillian?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 105645,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure what has happened regarding the second letter. I am checking that out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 105647,
      "EditedText": "That is because we did not know that members did not have a copy. I assumed that if members had copies of the first letter, they would receive copies of the second letter. I have a copy of that letter here that I will be happy to circulate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 105650,
      "EditedText": "I would like to deal with the issue of ticketing. I understand that the minister is lucky enough to be going to the Scotland v England game next Saturday—I hope that that ticket was obtained legitimately. I spent a great deal of time a week past Friday trying to secure a ticket and I share the concerns, frustrations and disappointments of the many Scots who thought that they were playing on a level playing field for a specified number of tickets. They were not. I have a number of concerns that this committee should look at. There are a number of people that we should contact, particularly the Scottish Football Association.We must ask why things were done as they were and what course of action is being taken to remedy the situation. We need to ask questions of the SFA regarding how the tendering was done, and we must ask what action will be taken to ensure that a similar fiasco does not take place in future. Ordinary fans go to watch Scotland year in, year out in games that have little or no value to commercial sponsors, but for which the fans pay a great deal of money. We must ensure that they are not excluded from buying tickets for big games.What role, if any, has the Scottish Executive played? Has it spoken to the SFA regarding tickets? It is a matter of considerable concern to ordinary fans, to this committee and to the Parliament that the matter has become a national disaster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 105653,
      "EditedText": "It is legitimate that the committee should ask for that report. I am quite happy to have that on the record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 105655,
      "EditedText": "No, Fiona. Let me repeat that Sam Galbraith has indicated to Mr Taylor that there is concern about this and he has asked for a report to ensure that this sort of thing does not happen in future. When we get that information, we will share with the committee whatever we are able to share. I am happy to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 105656,
      "EditedText": "Whatever you are able to share?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 105658,
      "EditedText": "For reasons that will become apparent, I wanted to ask this question towards the end of the minister's contribution. Has she, Peter Peacock or Sam Galbraith enjoyed being a spectator at Scotland matches—or any other matches, for that matter—as a guest of the SFA? Have they attended any opera as guests of Scottish Opera?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 105666,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 105680,
      "EditedText": "Is that a no? If the committee requested a private meeting to be briefed on this matter by you and your officials, would you not agree to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 105682,
      "EditedText": "With the greatest of respect, convener, I would like the minister to answer the questions we put to her."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 105686,
      "EditedText": "Convener, I am not inclined to dispute a ruling from the chair. I must say, however, that I find that ruling surprising, given the role of this committee and the difficulty we have had getting an answer from the minister, who is being let off the hook."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 105694,
      "EditedText": "I have explained that the nature of the discussions that are taking place at the moment is such that it is not possible to disclose commercially confidential information—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 105698,
      "EditedText": "A full statement will be made to the Parliament at the earliest possible opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 105700,
      "EditedText": "Yes. My understanding is that the council committee considered the proposal for the money to be provided, but that it is still to go before the full council. There is no desire to conceal information. If we can disclose information, we will do so. However, we cannot disclose matters that are bound up with commercial confidentiality. I look for the support of the committee on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 105701,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we clear up matters that were included in the letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105704",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 105704,
      "EditedText": "We were alerted to the situation at the end of July. Since then, as I have said, the head of the sports policy unit—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 105705,
      "EditedText": "Convener, can I press for an answer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 105709,
      "EditedText": "If I can be allowed to reply, the member made several points and then asked some questions. I am trying to point out—perhaps unsuccessfully, in Fiona McLeod's case—the seriousness with which we view the problems at Hampden stadium and the steps that we have taken to resolve the problem. Since we were informed in late July, the senior official in this area has spent 75 per cent of his time dealing with the issue. Other senior officials, including some concerned with finance, accountancy, law and the enterprise network, have also devoted significant amounts of time to the issue. There have been more than 20 internal meetings—meetings with the consultants, the National Stadium, Queen's Park Football Club, other co-funders, the Scottish Football Association and the Royal Bank of Scotland. There have been many exchanges of correspondence and telephone contacts, and ministers have been kept closely informed and consulted. We have been working very hard to resolve these difficulties, and I repudiate any accusation that we have been sitting on our hands.On monitoring, we have said that no money will go out until we are satisfied that a new management structure will be put in place and until the co-funders are satisfied that there will be a fully developed business plan. When the original money was committed to Hampden, we were satisfied that there was a business plan, but there have been problems and some mistakes have been made. We must ensure that those mistakes are not repeated; as I have already said, we have to be sure that a full business plan is in place and that the stadium will be financially viable on a long-term basis. We are committing the money on that basis, and I hope that the committee will support that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105711",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 105711,
      "EditedText": "Convener, really—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 105716,
      "EditedText": "You may, very briefly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 105722,
      "EditedText": "Even with the £4.4 million, there is a funding gap. That money does not fill the existing gap. I have already explained to the committee who the contributors to that £4.4 million are. Do you want me to explain that again?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 105726,
      "EditedText": "That is part of it. There are various issues. The committee should recognise the difficult negotiating position that the Government has been in. I do not want people to get the impression that this committee thinks that ministers have been withholding information that should be available to it. I would be concerned if people were to have that impression."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 105728,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, Brian, I was reading. Will you repeat the question?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105730",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 105730,
      "EditedText": "As you said, it was known that the stadium would need to find additional funding. That was going to be raised partly through the debenture scheme and partly through commercial sponsorship. Misjudgments have been made about how much money it would be possible to raise. There have been cost overruns for a number of reasons: the effect of inflation, as a result of the delay in commencing construction; the costs of acceleration to complete the works by May 1999, for the cup final; the adjustments to meet Union of European Football Associations and FIFA requirements; and underestimates of the costs of works that were necessary to meet safety guidelines. Some works were carried out that were not included in the original project, but which were considered necessary for the stadium to operate fully and competitively. Those included re-laying the pitch, with consequential sideline adjustments, and a strengthening of trackside areas. The increased costs were only partially offset by income from commercial sponsorship—notably from British Telecommunications and Coca-Cola."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105731",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 105731,
      "EditedText": "I have a final supplementary question."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105732",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 105732,
      "EditedText": "I ask you to be brief, as we are running out of time."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 105735,
      "EditedText": "Ian Jenkins, would you like to ask a question?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 105738,
      "EditedText": "During the election, there was a stushie—if I may use Ian's word—about Labour trying to attract votes by publicising its investment in a sports academy. I remember glossy pictures of people playing keepie-uppie and so on. Now we have, within the first few months of the Executive's administration, a fiasco over Hampden about which we are not being informed. You have given us the remarkable piece of information that a new pitch had to be laid, minister. If the architects had not thought of that before they built the stadium, there must have been serious problems with their plans. We have also had the fiasco with the tickets.Does the Executive have confidence in the Scottish football authorities? Do the authorities have any confidence in the Executive? Would it not be better if you gave us some clear answers, so that the committee could contribute to rebuilding confidence in the Scottish football authorities rather than having this rather acrimonious and bad-tempered meeting? I have to say that the acrimony and ill temper are a result of frustration with your answers.It would be better if you were open with us. Shall we start on the issue of Hampden?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 105740,
      "EditedText": "In your opinion, which does not count for much."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 105743,
      "EditedText": "I have already covered that, but I will repeat myself if you want.We all have concerns about what has happened with ticketing for Saturday. Sam Galbraith has already spoken to David Taylor, the chief executive of the SFA, and will get a report from him. We take the matter seriously and we welcome the fact that those holding the inquiry have decided to write to the SFA."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105745",
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      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 105745,
      "EditedText": "I have a comment rather than a question. I find myself in the rather unusual position of agreeing with a member of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party. Like Brian Monteith, I think that we should have a private meeting to consider all the issues. I do not think that a private meeting would find itself in the press. If negotiations are at such a delicate stage, we should let them continue.Brian is right: we need to consider a number of issues and learn from the mistakes that have been made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 105746,
      "EditedText": "I will address my question to the committee as we do not get answers from the minister.In the light of what Ian Jenkins and Karen Gillon have said about leaving the matter for a future discussion, I have to say that Hampden is in a dreadful mess. We have learned today just how bad the situation is. We have also learned that the minister and the Executive were satisfied that appropriate monitoring procedures were in place. They were satisfied with the business plan and the management structure. The committee would be negligent if it did not act before the next set of structures—which might be as deficient as the current one—is put in place. We have to examine how the Executive spends public money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 105751,
      "EditedText": "I thank the minister for attending the committee and for giving us the answers that she was able to. All of us share her concerns about Hampden and Scottish Opera. The committee is about to launch an inquiry into the national companies. Scottish Opera will be further discussed before that is settled.I also thank the minister for giving us the extra time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 105754,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 105755,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 105757,
      "EditedText": "I decline the option. Having already written a submission for our party, I would not want to bring party politics into the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 105770,
      "EditedText": "There is a difference of opinion on the matter, so we need to take a vote on it. I said at the beginning of this meeting that I was not in favour of our having a briefing. However, in the spirit of compromise—and because I think that it would be useful—I am happy to accept Brian's proposition that we have a briefing before the statement in Parliament. I ask Brian to move a motion on that, and I ask Mike to move an amendment to that motion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 105774,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 105776,
      "EditedText": "ForFiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP)Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP)Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP)AgainstKaren Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab)Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD)Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab)Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab)Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 105779,
      "EditedText": "The question is, that the Scottish Executive be asked to give a private briefing to the committee on Hampden Park, immediately before the proposed ministerial statement to Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ContributionID": 105780,
      "EditedText": "ForKaren Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab)Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD)Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP)Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab)Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab)Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP)Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP)Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 105782,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 523.0,
      "ContributionID": 105783,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 is on our inquiry into the national arts companies, which we wish to proceed with next week. Members will have received a paper that suggests a remit and witnesses for the inquiry. Do members have any comments on the paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2149,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 525.0,
      "ContributionID": 105784,
      "EditedText": "I have a number of comments. We will require more time with Scottish Opera. I suggest that, on Tuesday 17, we see the Scottish Arts Council for an hour maximum, because it will be giving us factual information on its support for the national companies. I suggest that we see Scottish Opera for an hour to an hour and a quarter—or even an hour and a half—and Scottish Ballet for the rest of the meeting, as our questions will be principally about Scottish Opera. The composition of the delegations from Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet is important. It would be unhelpful if only the new chair was present; we must also request the presence of the previous chair and Ruth Mackenzie, who was in charge until her recent resignation. If they will not appear as part of Scottish Opera's delegation, we must request them to appear in front of the committee as individuals. The clerk will have to negotiate with them to see whether that can be done. On Wednesday 1 December, we will hear from the national theatre. I suggest that we add the Saltire Society to the agenda, which has, over many years, taken a strong position on this matter. I suspect that Paul Scott, who has been a strong supporter of the national theatre for many years, will wish to appear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2149,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 527.0,
      "ContributionID": 105785,
      "EditedText": "Are there any problems with that? I am quite happy with Mike's suggestions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2149,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 529.0,
      "ContributionID": 105786,
      "EditedText": "The third bullet point under point 4 of the brief talks about the appropriateness of establishing \"a national theatre for Scotland\". I think that the word \"company\" should be inserted so that we are talking about \"a national theatre company\", because if we start to talk about establishing a national theatre, we will get into tremendous difficulties—it will confuse us and get in the way. I support Mike's comments on Ruth Mackenzie—it would be impossible to get a clear picture of the timing of events without being able to speak to her."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105787",
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      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 105787,
      "EditedText": "I support positively the idea that we should hear representations from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. We should hear not just from COSLA, but from people in COSLA who can talk about the educational aspect of the national companies—the touring companies' involvement in education and local authority support for the national companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 105791,
      "EditedText": "If we have further questions, we could invite representatives from the British Council to the final inquiry meeting, which would avoid too many people coming to the earlier meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 105793,
      "EditedText": "I have just checked with Gillian and I understand that we are light on festivals. I have already declared an interest in one festival, but what do we do about the Edinburgh International Festival or the St Magnus Festival, which are both significant spenders and users of public money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 105795,
      "EditedText": "The committee is free to invite written submissions. If members want to complete the inquiry in December, a number of people will feel that they are being given too little time to comment—members would have to live with that. I have discussed with the researchers the possibility of their producing a written briefing. They will do what they can, but pressure of work means that, in a week, such a briefing will be fairly limited. They have offered to help to frame questions that the committee might want answered. The Scottish Arts Council, too, will provide as much factual briefing as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 105799,
      "EditedText": "When we invite witnesses, is it made absolutely clear that they have to answer questions? Is it made clear that that is the power of this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 105801,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful to ensure that people are aware that questions will be asked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C105802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 105802,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Mike Russell that we need to have information beforehand. It is not good enough to have it an hour before the meeting. We need to be able to consider what questions we want to ask."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 105803,
      "EditedText": "When we are considering the matter of a national theatre, it will be useful to meet representatives of the Scottish Youth Theatre, which is already a national theatre and has plans for a building. Such a meeting might inform our discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ContributionID": 105804,
      "EditedText": "We will take that on board.We will try to get written material to people as promptly as possible, so that we are informed before beginning our discussions.At the previous meeting, we agreed that we would have four reporters on various issues. Members who have been appointed as reporters should discuss their remits and the way in which researchers can help them with Gillian Baxendine, so that they can get as much help as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 574.0,
      "ContributionID": 105808,
      "EditedText": "I propose that we send the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 105809,
      "EditedText": "Is there any fee? There is an issue over fees for conferences, which has been discussed elsewhere. The Scottish Parliament has to be kept informed and has to pay its way but, given that we are spending public money, fees for members to attend conferences should, in principle, be avoided. If the conference is prepared to have an observer from the committee, our participation should be on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 105814,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask a question that is not on the agenda. It concerns the arena in which we find ourselves. I would appreciate committee members' comments on meeting here in the chamber, rather than in one of the smaller committee rooms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 105816,
      "EditedText": "I should correct you—this meeting is not being televised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 594.0,
      "ContributionID": 105818,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty was that another committee had already said that a minister would be present, so it had first use of committee room 1, which at the moment is the only committee room from which meetings can be televised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 596.0,
      "ContributionID": 105819,
      "EditedText": "That is very poor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ContributionID": 105820,
      "EditedText": "It is obviously a difficulty. The only thing that I would say—and I have mixed feelings about meeting here—is that the chamber allows more members of the public and the press to attend. There was a great deal of interest in this meeting, so I thought that we should try meeting here today to enable people to attend. However, meeting in the chamber gives rise to practical difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 600.0,
      "ContributionID": 105821,
      "EditedText": "We must be able to meet whenever we wish to meet and, because there is a shortage of space, we accept that we may have to meet here. I do not think that the chamber is as good as one of the committee rooms, but if we are last in the queue, so be it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 608.0,
      "ContributionID": 105825,
      "EditedText": "The reasoning behind that was that if members sit on the front benches at the side, their view can be blocked by the mace and the desk on which it stands. However, we will try what Mike has suggested. This meeting was really a trial run."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2147,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 105538,
      "EditedText": "I understood that the reason for the ruling was that agendas had to be published. I do not see how that is consistent with a rule that says that items can be placed on the agenda up to the moment when the meeting starts. That would still prevent the public from being aware of what would come up at the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 105691,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask two quick supplementaries. It is my clear understanding and information that a meeting of a committee of the City of Glasgow Council decided last week not to agree to make a contribution, but to take the matter away and consider whether any contribution should be made by way of a loan. I would have thought that the minister should be in receipt of that information and been able to pass it on to the committee.My second question takes us back to the point about commercial confidentiality. Let us assume that the negotiations are sensitive and that the minister feels that aspects of them are confidential; I still cannot for the life of me understand how an explanation of how this problem arose in the first place is confidential. Under the terms of the consultants' remit, the answer to that question should be in their report. What is preventing the minister from making that information available? It is astounding that that basic information cannot be provided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 105693,
      "EditedText": "We would like you to give us some answers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 105697,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8521454+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 105747,
      "EditedText": "We all hoped that we could leave matters to the Executive after today's meeting. I do not think that that can happen now.Regardless of our views about the desirability of a private meeting, we would like an indication from the minister before she leaves today about whether she would be willing to attend such a meeting. In her letter, she says that the Executive would be\"anxious to explore with the Scottish Football Association the role it could play both in the future management of the stadium and in making the business plan as robust as possible.\"Does the minister seriously think, following the ticketing fiasco, that the SFA would be capable of running the national stadium as a viable business? Does she think that it would be appropriate for the SFA to be both landlord and tenant at Hampden? That would not be appropriate for local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:01:10.1056004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 105761,
      "EditedText": "This is astonishing. I, too, am opposed in principle to private meetings and would not ordinarily suggest that committees go into private session to discuss matters of this nature. However, when we cannot get answers to questions in public because the answers are supposedly confidential—for reasons that nobody can quite understand—what alternative do we have to meeting in private other than to sit back and say that we as a committee have no role to play and that we are prepared to let the Executive go blindly down the road on which it appears to be embarked?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:01:10.1056004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 570.0,
      "ContributionID": 105806,
      "EditedText": "Is it an invitation to attend as an observer or as a speaker?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:01:10.1056004+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2147,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Mary Mulligan): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 105529,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that that is a point of order, but I am happy to ask that copies be circulated to members. The minister might refer to it when she is speaking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2147,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 105537,
      "EditedText": "I am loth to give a cut-off point. The advice I gave was that, almost right up to the beginning of the meeting, members could notify me or the clerk about issues that had arisen and we would try to put them on the agenda.There is no item on the agenda for any other competent business because we want people to know what will come up in the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2147,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 105539,
      "EditedText": "I meant that members could notify me as late as a day before the meeting, not five minutes before."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 105542,
      "EditedText": "We have with us this morning Rhona Brankin, the Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport. She will cover the two issues that the committee asked her to speak about: the national cultural strategy and the future of the national stadium, Hampden Park."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 105547,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on that point. The committee also has a remit on education, and we are all aware of the reduction in the amount of musical tuition in schools in recent years. How can we encourage schools to keep such tuition in the curriculum and children to take up the opportunities? School is not the only place where children get that opportunity, but often it is one of the most consistent sources of tuition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 105550,
      "EditedText": "I have been working with a chap called Pete Heywood who edits a magazine called \"The Living Tradition\". We are trying to set up a traditional arts summer school or workshop in Ayrshire, but it has been quite difficult to put together the funding package to assist that process. We hope that the project would be self-sustaining in the longer term. Will the minister comment on whether enterprise companies have a role to play in such situations? At a previous meeting, I mentioned the creation of a cultural calendar, which in turn would contribute to an area's economic development pattern.To reiterate what Ian Jenkins said, when I was involved in teaching in Auchinleck, the school had a successful and vibrant pipe band tradition that extended into the range of former mining communities in the area. However, taking part in that was an expensive hobby. Is there an argument for strengthening the funding regime for cultural pursuits in schools? Very often, such pursuits are the first to go when local authorities are strapped for cash. Will the minister comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 105553,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 105558,
      "EditedText": "The recognition of indigenous languages in Scotland is very important. Indeed, we are moving forward with Gaelic and Scots and are considering how we can ensure secure status for Gaelic. The issue of Scots is interesting. There has been a reawakening of interest in the different forms of Scots language. There has been a recognition in education circles that we should be giving youngsters access to texts in Scots. There will be a requirement for a Scots text in the new higher still exam. We expect to have a significant number of responses on those issues, which I welcome. The Scottish Executive recognises the unique positions of Gaelic and Scots under the European charter of minority languages. The charter has still to be signed, but work is on-going. An issue that was raised with me at the Mòd was that of youngsters coming to school or nursery school with Gaelic or a dialect of Scots as their first language. It is important that those youngsters are given an opportunity to express themselves in their first language, just as it is for any child coming to school with English as their second language. That is something about which I need to talk with Sam Galbraith and Peter Peacock, as it has implications for teacher education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 105560,
      "EditedText": "I absolutely agree. I have highlighted our need to consult young people. We are in discussion with Children in Scotland, whose members are also keen to communicate with young people. There is potential for innovative ways of doing that. If you have any suggestions, Fiona, they would be most welcome. On consultation, the initial date by which submissions were to be in was the end of October. Various people said to us that they would have difficulty with that, so we now hope to receive everything by the end of November. If we find major gaps at that time, and if we are not satisfied that we have heard the views of young people, we will further seek those views. I can assure the committee that we believe that it is essential to listen to people. God knows, I have a 21-year-old and a 22-year-old, and they are not backwards in coming forward to tell me what they think about culture. I welcome Fiona's comments. If she has any suggestions about innovative ways of carrying out consultation, that would be great."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 105562,
      "EditedText": "Under pressure from the media to get things done, we have made all the consultation periods for adults and young people too short. We expect people to respond quickly, not just in culture but across the board. People feel under pressure because of that. Members of a community council told me that they had not heard anything about the Arbuthnott report and not much about this, that or the other bill. That was partly because that would not have been possible, as the community council met only once a month. We talk about consultation a lot, but we are hurrying it too much—although I understand the reasons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105565",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 105565,
      "EditedText": "You start."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3714903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 105566,
      "EditedText": "I have indicated that I wanted to ask questions, but have not been introduced yet."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105572",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 105572,
      "EditedText": "A strategy is more than a set of action points—I think that you accept that. However, I am positive that you are talking about a vision of a Scotland that can be achieved, both the way in which we live in Scotland and the way in which we interface with it. That does not come without a price tag, nor does it come without some criticism of, or need to change, existing institutions. Will you legislate to change existing institutions if, in developing this strategy, you find that they need to be changed? We have been through an enormous wish list—a term I do not like—or shopping list of cultural improvement and change in Scotland, which has a price tag. For example, instrumental instruction in schools is charged to parents because of local authorities' resource problems—such things cost money. I would be excited if the Executive is saying, first, that nothing is ruled out in terms of structural change and, secondly, that it accepts that there are insufficient resources and that this area will be resourced more fully. We will have to see whether that is actually what you are saying. Can you tantalise us with that prospect?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 105573,
      "EditedText": "I can tantalise you willingly, Mike—I can tantalise you any time. We are looking for a vision for Scotland's cultural future. Members have heard about some of that vision today—people feel passionately about it. We need that vision. Yes, we will be prepared to examine the steps that we will have to take in order to realise that vision and to examine existing institutions. We have to be able to make hard decisions, which we will not shy away from. On instrumental tuition, people have had to make hard decisions because, as you say, the pot of money is not unlimited. The cultural strategy examines both our vision for Scotland and how we go about realising it. I am not ruling anything out. We are attempting to be creative and to involve as many people as possible in the process. I am more than delighted to hear your views on what we should be doing and I look forward to your submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 105578,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased to say that the Scottish Arts Council exists as an arm's-length body from ministers—heaven help us if ministers made individual choices about funding, Brian. What would your choice be? It is up to the Scottish Arts Council to decide such issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 105579,
      "EditedText": "As I am a Hibs supporter, I think that you might guess what I would choose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105583",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 105583,
      "EditedText": "With respect, Mary, it is important that we receive clarification—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 105586,
      "EditedText": "May I ask a supplementary to Brian's question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 105597,
      "EditedText": "I do not know how often I have to repeat that this is a genuine consultation exercise, out of which many issues will arise—some have done so already. We must consider how to address them and we will not shy away from them. If there are resource issues, we will consider them. We must make hard decisions about how much we are prepared to spend on culture in Scotland. That is what politics is all about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105599",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 105599,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned sport earlier. You will recall that a debate in the chamber showed the importance that MSPs placed on sport. What sort of responses have you received about sport's role in culture? For example, sport is a very important aspect of culture in the Borders and the Highlands, and, in central Scotland, football plays a strong role in local identity and culture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3871155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105602",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 105602,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your support on the matter of providing information to the committee, convener. It would have been much better to reflect on the answer itself rather than to rely on press reports.The national cultural strategy document refers twice to national performing companies. We will be exploring people's concerns about those companies. Although I lodged five written questions on this issue, none of them was selected to be answered by Mr Galbraith in his written answer, which was publicised. How has the situation arisen at Scottish Opera? What was the reasoning behind providing money to bail out Scottish Opera for the third time in almost as many years? Many of us are concerned that, although the money has been granted, the reason for doing so is three months away. The public in Scotland need to understand how such a situation has arisen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 105607,
      "EditedText": "Good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 105609,
      "EditedText": "Let me repeat that we have asked for a report on how the company has come to be in this financial situation. We have put the money into the new joint board for Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet to prevent Scottish Opera from becoming insolvent. The money will allow the company to operate for this year and is not a long-term guarantee about what will happen in future.We welcome the committee's forthcoming inquiry into the role of the national companies and their long-term funding. I look forward to hearing the committee's deliberations on Scottish Opera. I do not apologise for what we have done and I am glad that you welcome the fact that we have prevented Scottish Opera's insolvency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 105612,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Cathy. Nobody wants to see Scottish Opera going to the wall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 105614,
      "EditedText": "We will be looking for such details in Scottish Opera's report.At the end of September, I had an informal meeting with Magnus Linklater at which he told me that there were problems ahead. At the beginning of October, the Arts Council informed us of major problems. Since then, we have had regular meetings with the Arts Council and Scottish Opera.Adrian Trickey, the interim chief executive of the company, made an assessment of the joint company's financial plans and of the current financial position of the constituent companies—Scottish Ballet and Scottish Opera—which retain their separate identities pending the creation of a joint board. On 29 September, Mr Trickey informed the Arts Council that the accounting deficit on 31 March would be £2.5 million and that there would be a cash deficit in the current financial year of £3.3 million, which would substantially exceed the company's overdraft facility. That information is available in the written answer. It became apparent very quickly that something had to be done. The figure of £2.1 million is some way short of the £2.5 million that the company requires, and we expect Scottish Opera to consider further overdraft facilities and other cost savings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 105615,
      "EditedText": "From which part of the Scottish Executive's budget will the £2.1 million come?Furthermore, this session is part of the discussion of a national cultural strategy and the committee will later be considering the possibility of a national theatre company. Given that the Arts Council already funds eight theatre companies to the tune of £2.6 million a year, are you concerned that we could have a national theatre company for less than the money being used to bail out Scottish Opera? Could the budget also provide funds for such a national company?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 105616,
      "EditedText": "I know that you feel very strongly about a national theatre, Brian, and I will happily consider the issue on the basis of the submissions that I receive. The theatre world is divided on the issue. However, a national theatre does not necessarily have to be a bricks-and-mortar concept. I have had informal discussions with Kenny Ireland, the artistic director of the Royal Lyceum Theatre Company, about that. I have asked him to put in a submission on the cultural strategy.Regarding the broader issue of the national theatre—we will see what comes in and we will have that debate. The Executive is keen to ensure that theatre in Scotland is healthy and we have increased the amount of money that is available to the Scottish Arts Council for theatre.The £2.1 million for Scottish Opera is the result of foreseeable end-year flexibility savings in the education budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 105621,
      "EditedText": "Listen to what I am going to tell you. I have already said that the £2.1 million is going to the new joint reconstituted board of Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet. Yesterday, we announced the appointment of a new chair of that board. There will now be the process of appointing a new board. The money will go to that new board. We expect to have a plan back from that board within three months. That plan must set out how the new board of Scottish Opera intends to take the company forward and make it financially sound."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 105626,
      "EditedText": "There seems to be an astonishing discrepancy between the Government's approach to Hampden and its approach to Scottish Opera."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 105627,
      "EditedText": "Minister, you have referred on a number of occasions to the appointment yesterday of a new chair. Will you comment on that and tell the committee when the new chair will take up the post?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 105628,
      "EditedText": "Yesterday, we appointed Duncan McGhie, who is currently a partner with PricewaterhouseCoopers, as chair of the new joint company. He has a lifelong interest in music and has been a Scottish Opera season ticket holder. I understand that Mr McGhie will be joining the company as soon as possible.We are keen to move forward. Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet have been in the process of merging over the past couple of years. The new chair of the new joint board will appoint members of that board. The board will then make decisions in consultation with the Arts Council about the future of Scottish Opera and Scottish Ballet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 105629,
      "EditedText": "How will those board members be appointed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 105635,
      "EditedText": "In view of the sums involved, surely the Nolan rules should apply."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 105637,
      "EditedText": "With the appointment of the new chair of the new joint board we have a chance to appoint, in consultation with the Scottish Arts Council, a fresh board that will take a fresh look at the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 105646,
      "EditedText": "The committee must take this very seriously. Were two letters sent? When were they sent? Why is there a discrepancy regarding dates? The letter from Ms Brankin is dated 8 November. It is 9 November and we still do not have a copy of the missing letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 105648,
      "EditedText": "A committee cannot be run on the basis of assumptions. We must set up clear organisational structures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 105654,
      "EditedText": "If Mr Galbraith has had discussions with the SFA, why has this committee not been told about those discussions? That would have informed our discussions today. Is the Scottish Executive again not going to disclose information?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 105659,
      "EditedText": "I can let you have that detailed information if you require it. I cannot give it to you off the top of my head."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 105660,
      "EditedText": "Can you talk for yourself?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 105661,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I can talk for myself. I attended the cup final this year, in my role as Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport. I have attended a performance of Scottish Opera as a guest of that company. I may have attended more than one performance—I will check my files—and I would be happy to provide that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 105662,
      "EditedText": "I am not trying to catch the minister out, but whether the minister can speak on these matters, having received some hospitality from those organisations, must be in question. I point that out not because I feel that she should not be allowed to speak, but because if we were to accept that hospitality, we might not be able to speak on these matters. Those points must be clarified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 105664,
      "EditedText": "No, I am trying to point out the difficulties that this Parliament may face. It may become snarled up if ministers and other members receive hospitality from the likes of the Scottish Football Association and Scottish Opera to the point at which this Parliament becomes unworkable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 105669,
      "EditedText": "Commercially confidential information has been given to the Scottish Executive in the course of our discussions to resolve the problem at Hampden. It is not for the Scottish Executive to disclose such information without permission, nor would that be helpful in reaching a satisfactory solution to the present problems. If the Scottish Executive cannot be trusted to keep commercially sensitive information confidential, no one will want to share such information with the Executive in the future. I am sure that that is not what the committee wants.The letter that you have received sets out as much as we are able to say at this stage. I very much hope that the committee welcomes the hard work that has gone into seeking a solution to the problem at Hampden. My senior civil servant in the sports policy unit has spent 75 per cent of his time, in recent weeks, in meeting after meeting, trying to resolve a difficult situation. We have given you as much information as possible at this stage, and we are hopeful that a satisfactory conclusion may be reached in the next couple of weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0277152+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 105670,
      "EditedText": "I thank you for your answer. My concern is to try to define what could be commercially confidential when we are talking of more than £40 million of public money, and to what extent we should be taken into a similar confidence—even if it were done in private—to establish that everything is above board and there are no irregularities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 105671,
      "EditedText": "Although the default in standing orders is to hold meetings in public, has the committee—or the convener, or the clerk— considered requesting the Executive to hold a private briefing for the committee on this and other matters? Again and again, the committee seems to be grounded on the rock of not being in a position to be told anything because matters are confidential. I am sure that the committee would be sensitive and sympathetic to an approach from the Executive—and I hope that the Executive would be sympathetic to an approach from the committee—to receive information, to which we believe we are entitled, so as to take an overview of this matter, even if that meeting, or part of it, had to be held in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 105672,
      "EditedText": "I have not yet considered that option, Mike. If that is a suggestion that the committee wants to make, we could consider it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 105674,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned that we should not do anything to prejudice or damage the difficult, on-going negotiations. I hope that you will bear with me and support the Executive in the work that we are doing. There is no attempt to keep information away from the committee. As soon as we have a deal on this, we will provide you with as much information as possible. I hope that you will recognise the difficulty and delicacy of the negotiations that have been going on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 105678,
      "EditedText": "It is clear that we have shown some patience in dealing with this matter; it is no surprise that Mike's patience is beginning to burst. There may be a point in having commercial confidentiality, but does the minister accept that once the deal has been done, there may be a case for her showing us what has happened?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 105681,
      "EditedText": "The committee has not asked for that yet. It is difficult for ministers to answer hypothetical questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 105699,
      "EditedText": "Will you clarify as soon as possible the discrepancy that there seems to be with regard to City of Glasgow Council, so that the committee is given the correct facts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 105702,
      "EditedText": "I want to repeat what I have said from the beginning. At what is still a delicate stage of the negotiations, it is entirely appropriate for the minister to be circumspect. Nicola says that the questions that she is asking are historical. They are not historical; the negotiations are not concluded. It is entirely appropriate for the minister to proceed as she is, and for ministers not to agree to release information when other funding partners have not yet agreed to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 105703,
      "EditedText": "We must pin the minister down. We do not want her to keep repeating the same statement; we want some answers. Not only this committee wants answers—the whole of Scotland wants answers. We have been waiting since July, and we want to know what is happening.I want to home in on the Scottish Executive's role in the Hampden saga. As Nicola said, the minister has made it quite clear—by the tone and content of her letter—that she is not prepared to discuss the rescue package with us. I think that that is wrong. However, she can discuss the background to it with us. We have to know that the Scottish Executive is accountable in this matter, as £45 million of public money has been invested in Hampden. We want to know what is happening to that money. Minister, can you tell me specifically what is the Scottish Executive's role in monitoring what has happened to the public money that has been invested in the National Stadium plc?Your letter and Sam Galbraith's letter tell us that it was only in late July, when the Millennium Commission called the Scottish Executive, among others, to an emergency meeting, that the Executive became aware of just how bad the financial situation at Hampden was. How can that be, when the Executive is the holder of the public purse in Scotland? That is a fundamental question that needs to be answered.You keep saying that you cannot tell us about the current negotiations, but you go on to say in your letter that you will want a viable management structure and a \"fully developed business plan\" to be put in place. Are you telling this committee that when you started investing public money in this project as far back as 1996-97 there was not a viable business plan or a viable management structure? If that is the case, the Scottish Executive was negligent in its use of public funds.The questions that I have asked are of historical value and do not relate to the confidential commercial decision-making that is happening at the moment. Surely you can answer them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 105706,
      "EditedText": "Can we let the minister try to give an answer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 105708,
      "EditedText": "If she does not answer your question, Fiona, you will be allowed back in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 105710,
      "EditedText": "Brian?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 105713,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned three main issues. One was monitoring for the future—what happened to the monitoring for the past? You have just said that you were satisfied, in the past, with the structures that were in place. You were satisfied, as a Government, to invest public money in a management structure and a financial structure that ended up, as far as we know, £4.4 million in debt. I must question you further on that. Have you read the Queen's Park accounts for the end of December 1998? It is obvious that, at that stage, there was a shortfall of £8 million. You cannot keep saying, \"We will monitor for the future,\" and, \"We were satisfied in the past.\" If that is evidence of the Scottish Executive being satisfied—if that is evidence of the monitoring procedures that were put in place by the Scottish Executive to track public funds—I must say that the SNP is not satisfied and takes the matter very seriously. We are talking about public funds. How can we have any hope in the future? You will not tell us about the negotiations that are taking place now, so we must judge by your past record, and the Scottish Executive's record in the matter is deplorable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 105714,
      "EditedText": "We have tried to ensure that the committee operates as a committee of the Parliament. We have tried not to make it so political that members feel that they have to mention the parties that they represent. It was unfortunate that Fiona suggested that the SNP is the only party that is concerned. All members of the committee are equally concerned, and I hope that members will bear that in mind when they make comments such as those that have just been made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 105717,
      "EditedText": "I first raised the issue with you, as convener of the committee, in August. You wrote back to me that it was not a matter for the committee. If the convener of this committee makes that decision—which I have addressed at almost every meeting since then—I am left in the position of having to say that, as the shadow sports minister, I take the matter seriously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 105721,
      "EditedText": "Minister, your letter mentions a contribution of up to £4.4 million to the rescue package. Reading that, one would understand that the rescue package is more than £4.4 million. Can you tell us what the complete rescue package will be? Given the fact that the £4.4 million comes from the organisations that you list, which are all public organisations, is there also private money in the rescue package? Who are the contributors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1862E99P179C105724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brankin, Rhona",
      "ID": 1862,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Midlothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhona Brankin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 105724,
      "EditedText": "That is being negotiated at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 105725,
      "EditedText": "Is that the commercial confidentiality that we cannot get beyond, to the heart of the matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 105729,
      "EditedText": "Yes, certainly.Your letter explains that the problem has been a shortfall in the funds available to cover the capital element. The shortfall is so large that it could not be borrowed by the National Stadium, as the borrowing would be so great that it could not be financed. Negotiations are taking place to try to resolve that difficulty. That suggests to me—and I would like you to confirm this—that you are having to find a way in which to write off some of that capital debt, so that any other borrowings are affordable. Your letter also suggests, halfway through the penultimate paragraph, that\"the full financial package was not in place when the redevelopment works began.\"Frankly, I find that astounding. Your letter goes on to say:\"It was known from the outset by all concerned that additional funding would need to be raised partly through a debenture scheme and partly through commercial sponsorship\"—in effect, through private input. Has that capital gap built up because of overspending, because of a lack of commercial support, or because of both?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 105749,
      "EditedText": "I congratulate Rhona and her officials on painstakingly assisting in facilitating the rescue package for what will be a glorious national facility. The committee knows my views, but I repeat that I do not believe that there was a need for a new Hampden. Our needs were well served; the money should have been distributed to sports authorities in another way. However, the stadium is here and it is magnificent. I do not agree with Fiona McLeod that it is in a mess; it is highly irresponsible to suggest that it is. It is in the process of financial rescue. We have had full answers from the minister, regardless of what other committee members suggest. The most interesting part of the comments on the problems with the Hampden project was the answers that Brian Monteith elicited. I think that we will discover that the project was mismanaged, but we will also discover the normal pitfalls that are associated with major capital projects.I agree with Fiona that we will need to consider how we monitor public spending. The spending of local authorities is often scrutinised; I do not think that the Executive should be exempt from similar scrutiny.I thank the minister for her full answers this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 105750,
      "EditedText": "It is worth reminding ourselves that the committee is supreme. We have the power and the right to ask any questions we like. It is, technically, an offence for anyone to withhold evidence from us. However, we must ask ourselves whether we want to rock the boat as regards the case that Rhona Brankin has put to us about the delicate on-going negotiations.I am minded to do what Ian Jenkins suggests. We should wait until the deal is put together and then—as Ian so colourfully put it—crawl all over the books."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 105752,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we take a short break."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 105753,
      "EditedText": "That is a good suggestion, Mike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 105756,
      "EditedText": "We return to agenda item 1, the evidence from the minister. Do we as a committee wish to make a submission on the national cultural strategy? That option is open to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105759",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 105759,
      "EditedText": "The committee has the opportunity to comment on the reports as they go through. Making submissions is a matter for individual members, parties and, primarily, for the wider range of outside organisations. The committee will have its day but I am not sure that we would find it easy to take a clear line. I am sure that we could agree on bits and pieces, but I am not sure that we could agree on strategy. It might be better to comment as things proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 105760,
      "EditedText": "I agree. I wanted to give the committee the opportunity to say whether it wished to make a submission, but the feeling is that we all have other ways of making submissions if we wish to do so.On the future of the national stadium, Mike mentioned the possibility of taking evidence in private. I am opposed to private meetings in principle, so I suggest that we do not do that. However, I am aware that there may be some opposition to my view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 105762,
      "EditedText": "I feel that there will be a difference of opinion on this matter that we will not be able to overcome. I will let Brian Monteith speak first and then, if necessary, we will put the matter to a vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 105764,
      "EditedText": "That is an interesting suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 105766,
      "EditedText": "There are three clear options. The first is to request evidence in private now. I do not agree with Karen Gillon that we could not do anything with such evidence. We could discuss it privately and make representations to the minister as a committee if we felt that the matter was not being handled properly. Nobody knows whether that is the case, as the minister was stonewalling for most of the morning. The second option is Brian Monteith's suggestion, which Karen supports, to have a briefing before the statement is made. Common courtesy demands that that is done, given the interest that the committee has shown in the matter. The third option is not to have a briefing at all. I propose that we choose the first option. If that does not succeed, I will support the second option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 105768,
      "EditedText": "I reiterate Mike Russell's first point and say to Karen Gillon that we do not want the committee to become party to the negotiations. The committee's responsibility is to scrutinise the Executive. The present circumstance is that the National Stadium has a 40-year contract and must break that contract to put something different in its place. If we wait until after everything is in place, will we be faced with the fact that another organisation—which, as we heard this morning, might be the Scottish Football Association—has a 40-year contract? What Mike says is right. The committee's duty is to scrutinise the Executive and to say to it, \"We think that you are wrong on these points, and we suggest otherwise.\" That is why it is important for us to have the briefing now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 105769,
      "EditedText": "I do not believe that the minister was stonewalling. I think that she was being appropriately circumspect. The SFA placed a contract with the City of Glasgow Council; I heard its comments this morning on the appropriate managers of the facility. I agree with Brian Monteith's compromise that we could be briefed before the minister's statement in Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 105772,
      "EditedText": "I move, as an amendment,"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 105773,
      "EditedText": "The question is, that we have the briefing at the earliest opportunity. Are we all agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 105777,
      "EditedText": "The result of the division is as follows: For 3, Against 7, Abstentions 0."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 105781,
      "EditedText": "The result is as follows: For 10, Against 0, Abstentions 0."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ID": 2149,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 105788,
      "EditedText": "Another organisation with something to say on this subject is the British Council, which will have an important input into the international aspect of the national companies. Undoubtedly, there will be opportunities for a national theatre company to tour and the British Council may wish to give us details on its role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2149,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 105790,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with a written submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Arts Companies (Inquiry)",
      "HeadingID": 2149,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2149,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 105800,
      "EditedText": "One does not usually need to stress that, as people are extremely anxious to come before parliamentary committees and want to be seen to be helpful. It can be stressed where it is considered necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0433399+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 105813,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2150,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 105815,
      "EditedText": "The big advantage of the chamber is that it allows our questioning of witnesses to be televised, which is obviously important. The disadvantage is that it makes it somewhat difficult to conduct that questioning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ContributionID": 105817,
      "EditedText": "In that case, we should not be in here and we are wasting our time. You are right—at the moment the BBC can televise only one meeting at a time. In that case, we should meet in a smaller committee room. However, there will be much interest in the Scottish Opera hearing and we should meet in the room from which it can be televised. I assumed that we were in the chamber because we wanted to be televised asking the minister questions—if that is not happening, this is not the best place for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 602.0,
      "ContributionID": 105822,
      "EditedText": "I would say that the chamber is preferable to all the committee rooms, apart from committee room 1, from which meetings are televised. For meetings such as the one that we have had today, if we are unable to meet in committee room 1, I would prefer us to meet here rather than in committee rooms 4, 3 or even 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Excellence and Equity Conference",
      "HeadingID": 2150,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ID": 2150,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 604.0,
      "ContributionID": 105823,
      "EditedText": "I thank members for their comments, which will be fed back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:27.0589633+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2147,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2147,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 105536,
      "EditedText": "At an earlier meeting, you ruled that no item on the agenda would deal with any other competent business because all matters that we want to raise should be clearly noted on the agenda. If that is the case, when would it be appropriate to raise matters that did not come to light early enough to be placed on the agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 105590,
      "EditedText": "I want to reiterate some of Mike Russell's concerns about where the strategy is going. The worry is that glossy documents will be followed by consultants' reports, which will be followed by rather fine-sounding visions for the future of cultural life in Scotland. The stumbling block will come when the Executive is called on to take action in the form of either legislation or resources. Rhona, you mentioned instrumental tuition in schools a number of times this morning—when a minister mentions something several times, that always gives rise to the suspicion that an Executive announcement is on the horizon. You know as well as any of us that instrumental tuition is a matter of local authority resources. I am not sure that any of your answers have done much to convince us that you, as the minister, have a clear idea of where the strategy is taking us. I hope to hear more concrete proposals from you before the end of the meeting. I want to turn your attention briefly to the role of ethnic communities in Scotland in the consultation process and in the strategy that will emerge from that process. We have talked about Scotland's indigenous culture, but it is often the case that the distinctive cultures of ethnic communities, which add a great deal to our cultural life, are overlooked. Those communities should be a part of the national strategy, and that strategy should ensure that that happens. In your opening remarks, you said that Glasgow City Council was facilitating a group to consult ethnic communities. My concern about that is similar to Fiona's concern about consultation with young people—that it is a token gesture rather than a real attempt to involve people in the consultation process. What response has there been from ethnic communities in the public meetings that have been held so far? Have they been attending those meetings? Have they actively participated? What further steps will be taken to ensure that their distinctive cultures will be fully involved in the strategy as it develops?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 105592,
      "EditedText": "I welcome your comments about the ethnic communities. I have not suggested that these issues are all about money. However, I have suggested that resources are central in some areas, including instrumental tuition, which you mentioned several times this morning. The problem for local authorities has been the lack of resources. As you are the minister responsible, we are looking for a clear indication from you that, if hard decisions have to be taken, you will be prepared to press for resources in the Executive and that the Executive will be prepared to follow through."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 529
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 2148,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 2148,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 105594,
      "EditedText": "I would welcome such a statement but it is important that we hear more than rhetoric."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 9 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 52,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 52,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 3287,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:01"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 53,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andrew Welsh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 3288,
      "EditedText": "I bring the committee to order and welcome everybody to this meeting about part 2 of the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill.I have received apologies from Andrew Wilson.I welcome the Minister for Finance, Jack McConnell, and his officials.Do members have copies of the marshalled list of amendments and my suggested groupings of amendments? The clerks will ensure that copies are available.Thus heavily armed, we can continue. The guidance on considering bills at stage 2 has been circulated to members. The convener of the Finance Committee read it out last week; I assume that everybody has read it and suggest that it is not necessary to read it out in full again. However, I would like to alert the committee to some key procedures.For the purposes of debate, amendments may be grouped with other amendments regardless of where they appear in the marshalled list. Each amendment is debated only once. However, amendments will be called and moved in the order in which they appear on the marshalled list. When a group of amendments is being debated, the proposers of all other amendments in the group will be called to speak. They must not move their amendments at that point—they will get their chance at the end. The only member to move their amendment should be the proposer of the first amendment in the group. I suggest that the proposer of the first amendment move it at the beginning—amendments can be moved at the beginning or the end, but if members get it over with at the beginning, they will not need to be reminded to move their amendments. After each section and schedule has been considered, members must decide whether to agree to that section or schedule.As there has been no decision of the Parliament on the order of consideration, I propose that the order in which we consider the sections and schedules of part 2 of the bill should be the normal order—we will take the sections in the order in which they appear in the bill, with any amendments that relate to a schedule being taken after we have considered the section that introduces that schedule. Is that agreed to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 54,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 3294,
      "EditedText": "Minister, given the phrasing of section 10(3), would you anticipate the Accounts Commission or the Auditor General ever making a request that Audit Scotland could reasonably not comply with?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 54,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 3296,
      "EditedText": "That was my speech."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 54,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 3297,
      "EditedText": "Excellently succinct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 54,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 3298,
      "EditedText": "The bill provides for both the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission to have support from Audit Scotland for any of their functions and I am confident that that will be the case in all respects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 54,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 3299,
      "EditedText": "I am disappointed by the minister's response. The bill does not preclude what I want to happen, but I want it actually to happen—I do not want us perhaps only to think about commissioning research. I do not believe that the amendment would mean that Audit Scotland would encroach on policy areas. If this Parliament is to be at the cutting edge of best practice, we must encourage Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission to be at the cutting edge of best practice. The way in which to do that is to insist that it happens, which is the purpose of this amendment. I am not suggesting that those organisations should devote all their resources to researching and developing processes for performance measurement, but I am not persuaded by the minister to withdraw amendment 16."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 3301,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
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      "ID": 54,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 3306,
      "EditedText": "We now come to amendment 23, with which we are discussing amendments 25 to 31."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 3308,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 23 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": 54,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 3309,
      "EditedText": "Section 10, as amended, agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Schedule 2",
      "SubHeadingID": 55,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ID": 55,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 3314,
      "EditedText": "Schedule 2, as amended, agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 11",
      "SubHeadingID": 56,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 3326,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 29 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": 56,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 3332,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 32.We have spent some time considering the appointment of an accountable officer for Audit Scotland. We have concluded that the Scottish Commission for Public Audit should have the option of appointing the Auditor General or a member of Audit Scotland's staff as accountable officer. The amendment provides for that.We have also concluded that the accountable officer should report any instructions under section 17(4)(b) to a body external to Audit Scotland. We have decided that any reports should be made to the auditors of Audit Scotland. Because of the latter point, the previous strategy of applying section 17 no longer works very well—amendment 33 inserts a free-standing section that sets out the provisions for the accountable officer for Scotland. The amendments are good as they mean that the accountable officer for Audit Scotland will be directly answerable to Parliament, which, given the principles that underlie the bill, is only right and proper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3333",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 11",
      "SubHeadingID": 56,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 3333,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 32 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 3335,
      "EditedText": "Section 12 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 13",
      "SubHeadingID": 57,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 57,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 3341,
      "EditedText": "This is an extremely sensible series of amendments. In his summing up, would the minister comment on what would happen in a situation in which someone is totally incapacitated and unable to delegate? Do the amendments allow for that? There might be unusual circumstances in which—following an accident or whatever—a person has some prospect of recovery but is unable to delegate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3344",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 13",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 3344,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 41 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 3345,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 42."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0456402+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 3347,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 43."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0456402+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 3350,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 44 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0456402+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": 57,
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 3352,
      "EditedText": "Sections 14 to 17 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0456402+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 18",
      "SubHeadingID": 59,
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      "ID": 59,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 3358,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Do you also wish to speak to amendment 18?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0456402+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 18",
      "SubHeadingID": 59,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ID": 59,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 3359,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I am looking for details of the accounts to be placed before the appropriate committee on a monthly basis and to be given in reasonable detail. I have asked for those accounts to be placed soon after they are available, to ensure that they are meaningful. I am investigating whether there will be significant variation from the expenditure that was initially planned, and I have tried to give guidance as to what might be regarded as a significant variation. That is why amendment 18 states: \"Each monthly statement shall show the projected  annual out-turn against budget on each sub-head, and shall explain variations of 5 per cent or £100,000 whichever is greater.\"The point of such amendments is to ensure that clear and detailed accounts are available to the committees of the Parliament so that they can effectively monitor and scrutinise the Administration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0456402+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C3363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 18",
      "SubHeadingID": 59,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 116.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ID": 59,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 3363,
      "EditedText": "I am in general agreement with Lewis Macdonald and Cathie Craigie on this point, but I am coming from a slightly different angle. The financial implications of asking for detailed monthly breakdowns would be prohibitive. The Parliament has been accused of wasting enough public money. Monthly breakdowns would give the general public yet another club with which to beat us over the head."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0456402+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 18",
      "SubHeadingID": 59,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 116.0,
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      "ID": 59,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 3367,
      "EditedText": "I have some sympathy for the minister's amendments, but I am a little concerned that in outlining his reasoning behind them he has not spelt out to us whether the accounts that will be produced will be standard accounts. I do not recall whether it was this committee or the Finance Committee—probably both—but members have requested that the format for accounts be standardised so that it is obvious to lay people what is in them. I will be interested to hear what the minister has to say when he winds up.I was interested in the minister's response to both my amendments. It would be remiss of us not to try to put the minister on the spot, particularly in light of the fact that we do not have any firm agreements about how we will proceed.I do not accept Mr Johnston's assertion that it would be expensive to present accounts monthly. It would be most unusual for major businesses, for example, not to look at their accounts monthly. Accounts ought to be updated regularly anyway. However, I accept the general thrust of some of my colleagues' arguments that are in sympathy with the minister and at this point—in anticipation of positive responses from the minister—I ask leave to withdraw both amendments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6081201+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 18",
      "SubHeadingID": 59,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ID": 59,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 3370,
      "EditedText": "Mr Adam wishes to withdraw his amendment. He can do so only by leave of the committee. Is it the committee's wish that amendment 17 be withdrawn?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6081201+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 18",
      "SubHeadingID": 59,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ID": 59,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 3373,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 18 not moved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6081201+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 19",
      "SubHeadingID": 60,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ID": 60,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 3376,
      "EditedText": "The purpose of this amendment is to remove the part of the bill that allows auditing of a body to take place only if more than half of its income derives from public funds. I want it to be the case that if any funds are given to a body, the Auditor General may—I stress may—have access to the accounts of that body in order to account for the expenditure of public funds.If any figure is in the bill—be it 50 per cent, 30 per cent or 20 per cent—the expenditure will not be publicly accounted for. I do not envisage the Auditor General exercising his right to access the accounts and auditing them whenever public funds are being expended, but the 50 per cent level is artificial and, if it were removed, access for the purpose of audit would be allowed but would not be mandatory.I move amendment 4."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6081201+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 19",
      "SubHeadingID": 60,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ID": 60,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 3381,
      "EditedText": "I will call Euan Robson before you sum up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C3383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 19",
      "SubHeadingID": 60,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ID": 60,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 3383,
      "EditedText": "The amendment was lodged as a probing amendment and Mr McConnell's response has satisfied me. I would be happy to discuss the matter with him before stage 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 19",
      "SubHeadingID": 60,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ID": 60,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 3384,
      "EditedText": "Do you wish to withdraw the amendment, Brian?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 19",
      "SubHeadingID": 60,
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      "ID": 60,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 3387,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 4, by agreement, withdrawn."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 19",
      "SubHeadingID": 60,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 153.0,
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      "ID": 60,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 3388,
      "EditedText": "Section 19 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 21",
      "SubHeadingID": 61,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 61,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 3390,
      "EditedText": "Economy, efficiency and effectiveness examinations"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 21",
      "SubHeadingID": 61,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 61,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 3394,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 35. The amendment has been prepared after consultation with the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. The SPCB thinks that the role of the Scottish Commission for Public Audit should be limited to such issues as the funding and auditing of Audit Scotland. The bill as drafted contemplates a wider remit with the resulting possibility of overlap with the role of this committee. We have therefore deleted the commission's power to make proposals to the Auditor General for Scotland about his value-for-money programme, which should be a matter for the Parliament alone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
      "SubHeadingID": 62,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 62,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 3398,
      "EditedText": "Do any other members wish to contribute? If not, I call on the minister to respond."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
      "SubHeadingID": 62,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 62,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 3401,
      "EditedText": "This amendment would compromise to an extent, perhaps unintentionally, the independence of the commission. The FIAG report stated on page 125:\"The independence of the Commission is emphasised by the fact that it does not receive a Government grant; its activities are funded by contributions made by audited bodies . . . The Commission is not a Crown body and its employees are not civil servants.\"It is important that that independence remains and, to an extent, I feel that this amendment compromises that. I accept what the minister said about the importance of this process remaining at arm's length from the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 3412,
      "EditedText": "The result of the division is as follows: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
      "SubHeadingID": 62,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 62,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 3414,
      "EditedText": "Sections 22 and 23 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 24",
      "SubHeadingID": 63,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 63,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 3416,
      "EditedText": "I ask the minister to move amendment 36, with which it will be convenient to take amendments 39, 49 and 40. Before he does so, I welcome Mr MacAskill, who has joined us for the debate on a later amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 24",
      "SubHeadingID": 63,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 63,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 3418,
      "EditedText": "Please leave that amendment until Mr MacAskill has spoken to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 24",
      "SubHeadingID": 63,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 63,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 3419,
      "EditedText": "Certainly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C3422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 24",
      "SubHeadingID": 63,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 63,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 3422,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 24",
      "SubHeadingID": 63,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 63,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 3423,
      "EditedText": "I want to be clear that the whole Executive supports Mr MacAskill's position on the need to change standing orders so that commencement orders are properly laid. We want standing orders to provide for that as soon as possible. I know that discussions between the two committees that are involved and the business managers are on-going. There is no difficulty with the principle of this amendment appearing in the bill if it were necessary to make that happen. Rather than agreeing now to an amendment to this bill that might prove to be unnecessary if standing orders were amended, I would be happy to support the amendment at stage 3 if the matter were not resolved by then.Is it possible for Mr MacAskill not to formally move the amendment today, but to accept my assurance that his amendment will have my support if other matters are not resolved to his satisfaction and that of the convener of this committee, and maybe of Mr Watson as well, before final votes on this bill are reached?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 24",
      "SubHeadingID": 63,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 63,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 3425,
      "EditedText": "If your amendment is not moved when we reach it, it simply falls."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 27",
      "SubHeadingID": 66,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 273.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 3444,
      "EditedText": "That is the briefest speech talking to an amendment that I have heard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 27",
      "SubHeadingID": 66,
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      "DisplayOrder": 273.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 3448,
      "EditedText": "Section 27, as amended, agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 27",
      "SubHeadingID": 66,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 273.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ID": 66,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 3449,
      "EditedText": "Section 28 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 27",
      "SubHeadingID": 66,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 273.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ID": 66,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 3451,
      "EditedText": "We have completed stage 2 of the bill as set out in standing orders. I congratulate the committee and the minister on the smooth transaction of business.If amendments have been made to the bill that substantially alter provisions conferring powers to make subordinate legislation, the bill, as amended, will need to be referred to the Subordinate Legislation Committee for consideration. They must report to Parliament on that.Stage 3 is next, when a meeting of the Parliament will decide whether the bill is passed or rejected.We will now conclude our business. I thank everybody who has contributed to the smooth transaction of today's business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 53,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 3289,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
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      "ID": 54,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 3290,
      "EditedText": "Audit Scotland"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 54,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 3293,
      "EditedText": "I agree that the bill makes the necessary provision. We would expect the Accounts Commission and the Auditor General's department to work together to provide research or whatever is needed to ensure that Scottish finances are managed effectively. As the minister said, there is nothing in the bill to prevent that from happening and we do not need to legislate to ensure that it does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
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      "ID": 54,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 3302,
      "EditedText": "In that case, there will be a division."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 3304,
      "EditedText": "The result of the division is as follows: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 3305,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 16 disagreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 3307,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 23. The amendments are all technical. Amendment 23 proposes a change to the provisions that set out Audit Scotland's powers to undertake work for bodies other than the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission. Under the bill as drafted, Audit Scotland would have been able to provide support services to other public audit bodies, such as the National Audit Office. It is now clear that Audit Scotland should be able to provide audit services to the public sector in general, not just to public auditors, and the amendment provides for that. In the past, the NAO for Scotland has undertaken work for the European Commission; the main reason why the amendment is required is so that Audit Scotland can take up that work in future. Amendments 25 to 31 are intended to enable Audit Scotland to recover the costs of work connected with the Accounts Commission's statutory duties under the Local Government Act 1992. Under section 1 of that act, the Accounts Commission issues directions concerning the publication of performance indicators by local authorities and other bodies. The existing arrangements allow the commission to recover the costs of producing those directions from the bodies that are affected. The bill, as drafted, does not enable Audit Scotland to recover the costs of directions. The amendments rectify that situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3310",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Schedule 2",
      "SubHeadingID": 55,
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      "ID": 55,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 3310,
      "EditedText": "Audit Scotland: further provisions"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 3311,
      "EditedText": "We now come to amendment 24."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
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    "ID": "C3313",
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      "ID": 18
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      "ID": 103
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 24 agreed to."
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    "ID": "C3315",
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      "ID": 18
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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      "EditedText": "Audit Scotland: financial provisions"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
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    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 2052,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 3321,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 27."
    },
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  },
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    "ID": "C3322",
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      "ID": 103
    },
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 27 agreed to."
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    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3323",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
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      "EditedText": "I move amendment 28."
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 28 agreed to."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3330",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
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      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 31 agreed to."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3331",
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      "ID": 18
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
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      "ID": 1906,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 3331,
      "EditedText": "We come to amendment 32, with which we are discussing amendment 33."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3334",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "EditedText": "Section 11, as amended, agreed to"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 13",
      "SubHeadingID": 57,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 57,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 3339,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 41.Amendment 41 has been proposed by the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body to simplify arrangements for determining the remuneration of the Auditor General, making that the responsibility of the SPCB rather than the Parliament. The Executive supports the amendment.Amendment 42 makes provision to enable the Auditor General to resign and retire. Without the amendment, the holder of the office might have to hold the position for life, unless removed under section 69 of the Scotland Act 1998. I can think of someone in the room who might be unhappy with that option, given the fact that he enjoys painting in Callander. Laughter. The amendment also enables the SPCB to determine other terms and conditions of the appointment, such as holiday or sick pay entitlement. That provision is sought at the request of the SPCB.Amendment 43 seeks to enable the Auditor General to authorise someone to exercise the functions that otherwise fall to him or her personally, but only in situations where he or she is incapable of exercising those functions, perhaps for medical reasons. Without that provision, no one else could exercise the relevant functions during any temporary incapacity. That could seriously impede the effective operation of the public audit service.Amendment 44 provides for the filling of any temporary vacancy in the office of Auditor General and for the terms and conditions, including salary, of such an appointment to be determined by the SPCB and for any sums payable to be paid by Audit Scotland.I commend the amendments to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 13",
      "SubHeadingID": 57,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
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      "EditedText": "I imagine that a good Auditor General for Scotland would have permanent notification of who should be exercising the functions in his or her absence. The expectation would be not to require that in legislation, but that the Auditor General—in consultation with the appropriate bodies—would make that provision. If that were the case, any unexpected incapacity would be covered."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3349",
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      "ID": 103
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 53,
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      "SubHeading": "Section 13",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 3349,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 44."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3351",
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      "ID": 18
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      "ID": 103
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      "EditedText": "Section 13, as amended, agreed to."
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  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3360",
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      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 18",
      "SubHeadingID": 59,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 116.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ID": 59,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 3360,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 37 is a technical amendment that is designed to update the provisions of the National Health Service (Scotland) Act 1978. The act places a duty on the Scottish ministers to produce summarised accounts of various NHS bodies. We are no longer certain that all those accounts serve a useful purpose, as the provision—in some cases—duplicates the duty of the health bodies that produce accounts. We therefore propose to replace the duty with a power. The amendment provides for that. As part of the resource accounting initiative, we intend to consolidate the accounts of health boards with those of the Executive. In resource accounting jargon, health boards will be inside the boundary. To ensure that, we will need consolidated, not summarised, accounts of the health boards. We need the flexibility to produce summarised or consolidated accounts as they are required. I would like to make it clear that the amendment in no way affects the duty of individual health boards to produce accounts and have them audited by the Auditor General.Amendment 38, as members will be aware, relates to the Water Industry Commissioner for Scotland, an office established under the Water Industry Act 1999. That individual will provide a much more effective regulation of the water industry in Scotland than was possible when the role was assigned to the Scottish Water and Sewerage Customers Council, which had limited powers and resources. The act does not, however, make provision for the production of accounts by the commissioner or for their audit. This amendment does. In accordance with the public audit model, the Auditor General will be responsible for auditing the commissioner.Amendment 17 is an understandable attempt to set out in statute the form of accounts that the Executive and other directly funded bodies should prepare. Mr Adam suggested that statute should require accounts that were disaggregated at least to sub-programme level. I do not view that as an issue for the bill. Parliament should have input into the form of accounts that the Executive and others produce, which is why we have proposed the memorandum of understanding on the form of accounts and the powers of direction. The memorandum proposes that the Executive consult Parliament on any new direction as it is made, or on an existing direction as it is amended. Once the committee has fully considered those agreements, I shall discuss with the convener proposals for refining them. When they are finalised, the agreements will set out the process by which the Executive will consult Parliament on directions. I make it clear that I intend the final agreement to include what we would describe as sub-programme level. However, that should be in the agreement, rather than in the legislation. One reason for that is that there is a technical difficulty: the term sub-programme, or any similar term, is not sufficiently capable of definition to make the provision enforceable in any meaningful way. A sensible level of disaggregation will vary from programme to programme. The local government programme, even at sub-programme level, accounts for several billion pounds. Other programmes, even at programme level, remain within single figures of millions of pounds. It is sensible to have a developing process, through which we can describe that information. The commonsense way in which to deal with this is through discussion, so that the level of disaggregation can be appropriate to the circumstances. I would like to conclude discussions on that before the bill reaches stage 3, so that we can reach an agreement that will make this amendment unnecessary.Amendment 18 would set out in statute the monitoring information that the Executive should present to Parliament. Mr Adam suggested that the Executive should publish detailed monitoring information monthly. I do not see that as an issue to be addressed in the bill. However, Parliament is entitled to receive monitoring information. We have proposed that monitoring information be dealt with in the understanding on in-year changes to expenditure allocations. I will look forward to discussing proposals for refining those agreements with the convener once the committee has considered them fully. Once finalised, the agreements will produce the information that Parliament needs. I believe that such information should be appropriate to the circumstances and must be based on the estimates and accounts that Parliament expects, so that they are consistent. The issues that must be considered include style, frequency and format, as well as to whom and when such information is given. We need to learn as we go along to ensure that we constantly improve and revise the monitoring information that is available. It would be inappropriate at this stage to prescribe in statute monthly monitoring information in the detail that is suggested. First, that is probably not achievable by April of next year, if we are realistic. Secondly, this committee and ministers need to agree what is best; we need to be prepared to review the situation constantly to ensure that Parliament can hold the Executive to account for the way in which money is spent and allocated, not just once a year, in the budget bill, but regularly throughout the year. I am sorry that that was so detailed, convener, but the amendments are important."
    },
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  },
  {
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    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 18",
      "SubHeadingID": 59,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 59,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 3365,
      "EditedText": "May I take it that I am allowed to comment on the minister's amendments as well? I can do it as part of my summing up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6081201+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 18",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 3366,
      "EditedText": "You may comment on the minister's amendments. The minister may want to respond."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6081201+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 3369,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful for the withdrawal of those amendments. There will, clearly, be a standardised format for departmental accounts. I do not think that we can move towards a standardised form of accounts for all agencies and non-departmental public bodies, but it is my hope that, over time, we can set some standards. I would like to do that in consultation with this committee and take the committee's advice. I am sure that we can work positively to improve the accessibility of all financial information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6081201+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3371",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 3371,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 17, by agreement, withdrawn."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3372",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 103
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "EditedText": "Section 18 agreed to."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C3377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 19",
      "SubHeadingID": 60,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 3377,
      "EditedText": "Amendments 45 to 48 concern the definition of \"body\". In informal briefings to the committee, it was suggested that \"more than half the income of the body or office-holder was received from public funds\"names a fairly arbitrary figure. The amendments would give substance to the point by inserting \"15 per cent or £400,000\" and \"whichever is the greater\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 19",
      "SubHeadingID": 60,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 3385,
      "EditedText": "I ask leave to withdraw the amendment."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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      "SubHeading": "Section 19",
      "SubHeadingID": 60,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 3378,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 34 corrects an inadvertent omission in the definition of income \"received from public funds\" in section 21. As currently drafted, the definition would exclude funds paid by organisations that are audited by the Auditor General, such as Scottish Enterprise, and not by Scottish ministers. I hope that the committee will support the amendment.My reading of amendment 4 is that it would permit the Auditor General to audit rather than have access to the accounts of any body that receives public funds. It is unnecessarily wide-ranging because the bill already allows the Auditor General to have access to the books and records of any body that is in receipt of public funds. When, for example, he is auditing the accounts of one of the Executive departments, any body that receives any funds from that department can be required to hand over books and records to the Auditor General. The purpose of amendment 4 is already covered in the bill. It would be wrong for the Auditor General to be able to duplicate the legitimate audit activities of all organisations that receive public funds. As drafted, the amendment could, for example, include farms that are incorporated bodies and companies that receive regional selective assistance. I do not think that that is the intention behind it. I assure Mr Adam that the bill will achieve what he is trying to achieve, which is access to information.Amendments 1, 2, 3, 45, 46, 47 and 48 raise substantive issues. The figure of 50 per cent was not chosen out of thin air but because of the principle that it would be appropriate for the Auditor General to have the right to conduct value-for-money studies when the majority of funding for any body came from public funds. I recognise the committee's concern about that figure and I am happy to consider an Executive amendment at stage 3, following discussions with Mr Adam, Mr Johnston and other members, to try to secure the Parliament's agreement for an amendment that would allow us to include bodies that receive less than 50 per cent of their funding from public funds but for which there might be a legitimate public interest in a value-for-money study. We are already looking at the bodies that would be affected and I am happy to share that information with committee members and to try to reach agreement on an Executive amendment with all-party support at stage 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3380",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 3380,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful to the minister for recognising our concerns and accept his offer of further discussions. I look forward to an Executive amendment."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3391",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 3391,
      "EditedText": "Amendments 1, 2, 45 to 48 and 3 not moved."
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 34 agreed to."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3396",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "EditedText": "Section 21, as amended, agreed to."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3399",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 3399,
      "EditedText": "This process of discussing and agreeing a bill has been a good one. As I hope has been obvious, I have tried to secure all-party agreement and agreement with members as we have gone along. I will continue to do so but I am strongly opposed to this amendment on a point of principle.When Financial Issues Advisory Group looked at the arrangements for the new Parliament, it gave detailed consideration to the existing arrangements for the external audit of local government. It concluded that, in view of the status of local authorities as a separate, democratically accountable tier of government, the arrangements should not be changed.The Accounts Commission is an independent body designed to sit between the two tiers of government, central and local, each of which has its own democratic mandate. I believe that this amendment would raise important constitutional issues, as local government is not directly answerable to this Parliament. It answers to its own electorate and the audit process, financial and value for money, must recognise that.The Accounts Commission already consults widely on its programme of value-for-money studies. That will include relevant parliamentary committees, but I do not think that it is appropriate to write that into legislation. The Accounts Commission should not have to report directly to Parliament. It already publishes all its reports and, since devolution, it has sent its reports to members of the relevant parliamentary committees and to the Parliament's information centre. There is no reason to stop committees taking an interest in these reports and discussing the Accounts Commission's findings. For example, on care of the elderly, it would be possible for the Health and Community Care Committee of the Parliament or the Local Government Committee, the Finance Committee or the Audit Committee to examine where the public pounds are going in that area.It would be entirely wrong for one of the first acts of the new Parliament, in our first full consideration of an Executive bill, to fundamentally alter the constitutional relationship between local government and central Government. We have a right to comment, at all times, on the activities of those that spend public money, but I do not believe that the audit reports of local government should be reported to the Parliament. I believe that that would be fundamentally wrong and I hope that the committee will not agree to this amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
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      "ID": 62,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 3402,
      "EditedText": "We already have a sophisticated system in place through the Accounts Commission. I would not like us to be seen as the big brother looking towards the local authorities. As the minister has explained, there is a comprehensive system in place. We should continue with that because it is working so well already. I oppose Brian Adam's amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C3403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
      "SubHeadingID": 62,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 62,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 3403,
      "EditedText": "We would compromise the independence of the Accounts Commission if we restricted it as this amendment suggests. I welcome the views that the minister has expressed today. We need to be careful that we do not take over the functions that are reserved for local government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 62,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 3404,
      "EditedText": "I ask Brian Adam to sum up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
      "SubHeadingID": 62,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
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      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 3407,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 3410,
      "EditedText": "There will be a division."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 3411,
      "EditedText": "ForBrian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP)Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con)Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)AgainstScott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab)Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab)Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab)Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab)Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab)Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD)AbstentionsMr Andrew Welsh (Angus) (SNP)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 3413,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 19 disagreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 24",
      "SubHeadingID": 63,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 3415,
      "EditedText": "Modification of enactments"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C3424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 24",
      "SubHeadingID": 63,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 3424,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to accept the minister's position, which seems eminently sensible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Schedule 4",
      "SubHeadingID": 64,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 64,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 3431,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 38."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 3433,
      "EditedText": "Schedule 4, as amended, agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 25",
      "SubHeadingID": 65,
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      "ID": 65,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 3437,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 49 not moved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 25",
      "SubHeadingID": 65,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 3438,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 40."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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      "SubHeading": "Section 25",
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      "ID": 65,
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 3441,
      "EditedText": "Section 26 agreed to."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 27",
      "SubHeadingID": 66,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 3443,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 20."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 3450,
      "EditedText": "Title agreed to."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 27",
      "SubHeadingID": 66,
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      "ContributionID": 3452,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:07."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 54,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 3291,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 16—that gets that bit out of the way.The intention of amendment 16 is simply—as it appears in the marshalled list—to beef up the bill to put the onus on Audit Scotland to be proactive in research into and development of performance measurement. The Accounts Commission has been particularly proactive in relation to local government. I would like to see a legal basis for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 54,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 3292,
      "EditedText": "Section 10(3) already provides that Audit Scotland\"is to provide such assistance and support as the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission require in the exercise of their respective functions\".That provision is sufficiently wide-ranging to cover not only the services suggested in the amendment but any support function that might materialise in future. The bill allows for the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission to commission research from Audit Scotland for developing processes for performance measurement. By introducing a specific requirement, the amendment does not add to the provisions of the bill but it might cause confusion. Nothing in the provisions would preclude the activity suggested by the amendment, so the amendment is unnecessary. The amendment could also give rise at least to an expectation that the Accounts Commission or the Auditor General would comment on policy as opposed to performance. Performance measurement can mean a variety of things. The bill allows for research into performance measurement for systems in local authorities or Government bodies, which is the right context. I hope that, with that assurance, Mr Adam will withdraw the amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 54,
      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 3295,
      "EditedText": "I remind members that this is not a question and answer session. If questions are posed in a speech, I am sure the minister will want to respond to them. Annabel, you have asked a question. If you wish to continue your speech, you are welcome to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": 53
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 3300,
      "EditedText": "The question is, that amendment 16 be agreed to. Are we agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 10",
      "SubHeadingID": 54,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 3303,
      "EditedText": "ForBrian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP)Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con)Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)AgainstScott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab)Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab)Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab)Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab)Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab)Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD)AbstentionsMr Andrew Welsh (Angus) (SNP)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Schedule 2",
      "SubHeadingID": 55,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 44.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ID": 55,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 3312,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 24.The amendment is a minor, technical amendment. The intention is to ensure that no member of the Accounts Commission may use a transfer to Audit Scotland under the bill as a ground for redundancy. The original draft failed to take into account regulations created under the terms of the Superannuation Act 1972 and the bill, as drafted, might enable an employee to pursue a redundancy claim based on those regulations. The amendment simply closes that loophole—it was drafted to carry out the original intention of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 11",
      "SubHeadingID": 56,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 3316,
      "EditedText": "We now come to amendments 25 to 31, which have been debated. I ask the minister to move amendment 25."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 3317,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 25."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3318",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 3318,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 25 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 3319,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 26."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "ContributionID": 3320,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 26 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 3325,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 29."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 3327,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 30."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3328",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 3328,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 30 agreed to."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 3329,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 31."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3336",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
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      "ContributionID": 3336,
      "EditedText": "Schedule 3 agreed to."
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  {
    "ID": "C3337",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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      "EditedText": "Auditor General for Scotland"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 3338,
      "EditedText": "We come to amendment 41, with which we will be discussing amendments 42, 43 and 44."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3340",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "ID": 1906,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 3340,
      "EditedText": "Having noticed that officials in the European Union have been offered jobs for life, I am happy to note that that trap is being avoided. Does any member of the committee wish to speak on this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3342",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 3342,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for phrasing that question as a speech. I am sure that the minister will respond to it when he sums up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3346",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 3346,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 42 agreed to."
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    "ID": "C3348",
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 43 agreed to."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0456402+00:00"
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    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3353",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
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      "EditedText": "I move amendment 33."
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 33 agreed to."
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    "ID": "C3355",
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      "EditedText": "Duty to prepare accounts"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3356",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "We come to amendment 17, with which we will discuss amendments 18, 37 and 38."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3357",
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      "ID": 18
    },
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      "ID": 103
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "SubHeading": "Section 18",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 3357,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 17. The purpose of the amendment is to give guidance as to how far down we would expect to see the accounts. It is difficult to be prescriptive about this, but perhaps we need to be. I suggest that we disaggregate the accounts to at least sub-programme level. All sorts of phrases could be used—how do we define this kind of thing? I do not want to say any more on that and I will be interested in the minister's response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0456402+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3361",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 3361,
      "EditedText": "I accept what the minister has said, although I understand where Brian Adam is coming from. The committees wanted to get as much information as possible. The Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill will ensure far greater accountability and will give us far greater auditing powers than was ever possible for Westminster Governments. That should be welcomed. As the minister said, we must learn as we go. We are a new Parliament and this is a new committee. we will get further if we can agree on things through the memorandums and understandings. I accept the minister's point about whether staff would be able to cope with the level of information that Brian has asked for, but I hope that the minister will discuss matters with you, convener, and other members of the committee, because to do our job properly—to scrutinise the work of all departments properly—we need to get as much information as we can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0456402+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3362",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 3362,
      "EditedText": "Cathie Craigie has covered much of what I wanted to say. It is, however, worth supporting the distinction that the minister drew between what is put into legislation and what exists in agreements between Parliament and the Executive. Putting too much detail into legislation not only puts a constraint on ministers, but takes away some of the discretion and powers of the Parliament and its committees. It is important to get the dividing line right. On that basis, I support the minister's view on amendments 17 and 18."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3364",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 3364,
      "EditedText": "If no other member wants to speak, I will ask Brian Adam to sum up."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Before we come to that, does the minister wish to comment?"
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      "EditedText": "Audit of accounts"
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3375",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 3375,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to amendment 4, with which we will discuss amendments 1 to 3, 45 to 48, and 34."
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3386",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Does the committee agree to the request to withdraw amendment 4?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3379",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 3379,
      "EditedText": "We appreciate that."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3382",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 3382,
      "EditedText": "I simply want to say that the proposal for an Executive amendment is sensible. The figure of 15 per cent or £400,000 may be too low, but a figure somewhere between there and 50 per cent will, I think, meet most people's expectations."
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 3389,
      "EditedText": "Section 20 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 103
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 3392,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 34."
    },
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  },
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    "ID": "C3395",
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      "ID": 103
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 35 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 3397,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 19. The purpose of amendment 19 is to allow at least an overview of the expenditure of a significant part of the Parliament's funds for local authorities. I recognise that local authorities are independent bodies with their own mandates. Nevertheless, a substantial part of their funding comes directly from the Executive. Parliament ought therefore to have a direct role, through the Audit Committee, in overseeing that expenditure. I do not want the committee to consider the accounts of individual authorities, as that is a role for someone else, but the situation was highlighted recently by the great discrepancy between the funds offered for care of the elderly and the amount that was actually spent. Across the gamut of local authority responsibilities, this amendment would allow the Audit Committee, and hence Parliament, to examine the generality of local government expenditure while retaining the integrity and independence of local authorities and of the Accounts Commission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
      "SubHeadingID": 62,
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      "ID": 62,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 3400,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased that the minister has made such a strong statement on this. I am sorry, Brian, but I strongly oppose this amendment as well. When the Scottish Parliament was created, it was promised that it would bring power closer to the people. If we introduced this amendment, it would be seen as taking power away from a local, democratically elected organisation. The people have the opportunity to elect or re-elect councillors when elections come round. There must be a dividing line.FIAG consulted widely with professionals and with the public bodies involved and, as the minister indicated, the recommendation was that local government should be left the way that it is. We should accept the recommendation that the arrangements for local government should not be changed and leave that in the bill as we take it through Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 21",
      "SubHeadingID": 62,
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      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 3405,
      "EditedText": "I have listened carefully both to what the minister has said and to the views that other members of the committee have expressed. My intention was not to undermine the independence of local government. However, currently local government is accountable, in the last instance, to the minister for the moneys with which it is provided by the Parliament. I am concerned that the Parliament does not have any direct say in how those moneys are expended.We are dealing with a very significant portion of this Parliament's finances—in the order of at least a third of overall expenditure, if not slightly more. In framing the amendment, I was very conscious, having come from a local authority background, of not wanting to take powers away from local government. However, I also wanted the Parliament to have some say in what happens in local authorities subsequent to the moneys being expended.The minister is already considering exercising capping powers against local authorities, and rightly so. That is his prerogative, as the person responsible for overall finance. However, we, as the Parliament, have a duty to examine how the public pound has been spent. We need to find a mechanism that will protect the independence of the Accounts Commission and the special status of local government, while ensuring that account is given for how the money that the Executive allocates to local government has been spent. Parliament has a role there. I am quite willing to consider other ways of doing that, but it would be remiss of us to say that such a large proportion of our expenditure is not to be accounted for by the Parliament in any way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3406",
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    },
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 3406,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Views have been clearly expressed. Do you wish to press the amendment, Mr Adam?"
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "The question is, that amendment 19 be agreed to. Is that agreed?"
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  {
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      "EditedText": "No."
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 3417,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 36. I will also speak to amendments 39 and 40 and to amendment 49, in the name of Mr MacAskill.Amendment 36 would grant ministers powers to make, by order, modifications to other legislation, prerogative instruments and other instruments or documents consequential on part 2 of the bill.The reason for this amendment is to guard against the possibility that a further public body might be unearthed whose accounting and audit arrangements are contrary to the public audit model. Those arrangements might be set out in legislation or in a prerogative instrument, such as a royal charter, or in some other instrument or document, such as a trust deed or contract. This amendment would enable ministers to amend those arrangements to bring such a body into line in the same way in which the bodies listed in schedule 4 have been dealt with.Amendments 39 and 40 ensure that, where any order makes textual amendments to primary legislation, the order is subject to affirmative resolution. I am sure that the committee will welcome those amendments.Shall I speak to amendment 49 just now?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C3420",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 3420,
      "EditedText": "By this amendment, we are seeking to ensure that commencement orders are laid before Parliament so that we, the Subordinate Legislation Committee, can consider and report on them. That is not unusual; it is what our counterparts at Westminster, the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, does. We do not consider policy, but we examine technical matters and find technical errors. We feel that it is appropriate that the Subordinate Legislation Committee should deal with such matters because errors do occur, as the JCSI would testify.We note that the Executive agrees with the principle and agrees that there appears to be a deficiency in standing orders. To some extent—we discussed this this morning—we are working in tandem to remedy that. We think that this amendment is necessary to deal with this matter, as we do not feel that the Procedures Committee will deal with the amendments and changes to standing orders that are necessary in time. Therefore, this bill would not be covered and there would be a difficulty, in that commencement orders could be laid and not come before Parliament.We note the concern of the minister and the Executive that a precedent is being created. We understand where that worry is coming from, but it appears to us that the amendment will relate only to this matter. We hope that the Procedures Committee will resolve matters by making amendments to standing orders.In summary, it is our view that this amendment is necessary to ensure that best practice is followed and that the Subordinate Legislation Committee can consider all matters, and this bill in particular. As I said, we do not have any rights over policy matters. We simply ensure that the criteria for drafting, terminology and vires are met."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3421",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 3421,
      "EditedText": "Just for clarification, does \"we\" mean the Subordinate Legislation Committee?"
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  {
    "ID": "C3426",
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 36 agreed to."
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      "EditedText": "Section 24, as amended, agreed to."
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Modification of Enactments Relating to Part 2"
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  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3429",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 3429,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 37."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3430",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 37 agreed to."
    },
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    "ID": "C3432",
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 38 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C3434",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
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      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 3434,
      "EditedText": "Orders and Directions"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3435",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 3435,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 39."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C3436",
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 39 agreed to."
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  {
    "ID": "C3439",
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      "ID": 103
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 40 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3440",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "EditedText": "Section 25, as amended, agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3442",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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      "SubHeading": "Section 27",
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      "ContributionID": 3442,
      "EditedText": "Interpretation"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C3445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 3445,
      "EditedText": "The amendment is self-explanatory. It is a technical change made in the Finance Committee. I hope that members of this committee will support it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 27",
      "SubHeadingID": 66,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 273.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 3446,
      "EditedText": "The chair likes succinct speeches, but perhaps not quite so succinct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3447",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 09 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 18
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-09T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 53,
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    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 20 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.6237439+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25731,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25731,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andy Kerr): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 665457,
      "EditedText": "I open this meeting of the Transport and the Environment Committee.We have received an apology from Tavish Scott.I suggest that we consider in private item 1 on the agenda, in regard to the questions that we will ask and the strategy that we will pursue in this morning's questioning of witnesses on the subject of telecommunications development. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665459",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25731,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 665459,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1908,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 665461,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the public, the press and the witnesses to this committee meeting. We shall move on to item 2 on the agenda, which is the beginning of our inquiry into telecommunications development and the consideration of evidence from the many organisations that submitted written responses, of which there were more than 100. Using those submissions, we decided on a number of oral evidence sessions. Today, we are taking evidence from the Department of Trade and Industry and from a panel of telecommunications companies.We appreciate the effort that all the organisations have put in. We appreciate also the fact that they have managed to come before the committee at such short notice. I hope that we have a fruitful session this morning.I welcome Nick Williams, Patrick McDonald and David Lumley from the Department of Trade and Industry and I ask them to take their seats at the table. In this committee we operate on first name terms, and I hope that we will continue to do that in this morning's session.We have a number of areas that we wish to discuss with you. Time pressure is always present, so I have asked questioners to be succinct. We would appreciate it if you were focused with your answers.I invite Janis Hughes to kick off this session."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley (Department of Trade and Industry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 665463,
      "EditedText": "In our memorandum, we set out some statistics for the UK as a whole. Telecoms underpins the whole economy, because the whole economy is dependent upon it. The wider impact of the telecoms industry on the economy is more important than the contribution of the telecoms sector to gross domestic product."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 665465,
      "EditedText": "This year, we are seeing explosive growth in the mobile telecoms sector. With the third generation of mobile telecommunications that you referred to, we will see a range of new applications using mobile technology, such as internet on the move and video delivery to mobile terminals.We will also see wider developments, such as convergence across the various communications technologies and, indeed, convergence between fixed and mobile telecommunications. Mobile telecommunications now compete with fixed-line communications at some times of the day and for some telephone calls."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 665468,
      "EditedText": "That will depend on the density of coverage of cells, as one factor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 665476,
      "EditedText": "In addition to those licence obligations, all the operators clearly have to comply with health and safety legislation and consumer protection legislation. In the case of the former, operators are expected in practice to be able to demonstrate that they can comply with National Radiological Protection Board guidelines.Would you like me to talk about planning obligations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 665477,
      "EditedText": "First, have the health and safety obligations been met in every case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 665479,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned that you had exceeded initial targets. Is that the case for all operators, or were you talking about the sector overall?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 665484,
      "EditedText": "The auction of the licences will be held early next year. The information memorandum for the auction was published on 1 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 665488,
      "EditedText": "The Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 applies anyway, regardless of what the licence says. That applies to all our obligations. I do not know whether Nick can add anything further on the timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 665490,
      "EditedText": "Is there any responsibility for geographical coverage rather than population coverage? A huge number of areas do not have access to those services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 665493,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not think that it is. That is a minimum requirement that we want to reach. I am sure that, as with the current generation of mobile phones, the market pressure will be to achieve as near 100 per cent coverage as possible. When people buy a mobile service they want to know that they will be able to get access to that service wherever they travel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 665494,
      "EditedText": "I pick up on the point that Cathy made. One of the complaints that I hear from businesses in more isolated areas, which do not have these services, is that it is a material disincentive to trade and industry. That must apply to all sorts of social and personal uses. How could this committee, or the Parliament, establish a regime that would insist on a fuller geographical coverage? Given the current state of technology, what would be the physical implications, on the ground, of pursuing that line of action?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 665500,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in your reply to Linda Fabiani's question about the regulatory framework. Paragraph 12 of annexe C in your submission states that compliance with NRPB guidelines is not a condition of licences that are issued by the Department of Trade and Industry. Can you explain why that is so?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 665504,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I have another question. Is the thermal measure, which is used by the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection, linked to geographic limits on exclusion zones that surround telecommunications equipment? How, and by whom, are those limits determined? Will a reduction in the limits by a factor of five—as recommended by the House of Commons Select Committee on Science and Technology—have any impact on the geographic limits of exclusion zones that surround telecommunications equipment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick McDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 665507,
      "EditedText": "We will almost certainly be responding on this not to the House of Commons select committee but to Sir William Stewart's independent expert advisory group on mobile phones, which will be reporting in the spring. I anticipate that a response from Government and from the industry will come sometime in the summer of next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick McDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 665511,
      "EditedText": "Indeed, yes. The EC has issued a recommendation on the exposure limits, adopting the ICNIRP guidelines. That was done in full recognition of the fact that there is no scientific basis for doing that, but it is a precautionary step. It is also interesting to note that the EU recommendation came after very detailed consideration of whether the precautionary principle should be applied to it. With the exception of one member state, that was rejected as inappropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 665514,
      "EditedText": "I have a few more questions on current planning control measures. The DTI submission seems to suggest that making mobile phone masts and so on subject to full planning approval would slow down the rollout of the network and would cause problems compared with the current system of prior approval. How much impact would the fact that such installations must be subject to full planning control have?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 665515,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to be specific about that. If the developments were subject to full planning control, we would expect two things: first, applications would take longer and there would be less certainty among operators as to where and when they would be able to locate their masts; secondly, the issue would become more dependent on local politics. There would therefore be extra uncertainty as to what each local authority will decide. That could lead to a rather more patchy coverage of communications networks across the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 665522,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that the introduction of full planning control is likely to result in a pattern of problematic cases?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 665533,
      "EditedText": "Although you are probably not the right people to ask, what measures are being taken by the industry to develop the technology? Can we do the same job with fewer masts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 665534,
      "EditedText": "That question is worth asking the industry. Operators' licence conditions oblige them to consider mast sharing or the sharing of apparatus before they decide to install new apparatus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 665535,
      "EditedText": "How stringently would that condition be applied?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 665536,
      "EditedText": "The local authorities have the right to ask whether operators have investigated sharing, and prior approval might be refused if operators have not made reasonable efforts to do so. However, we should bear it in mind that there is a trade-off between mast sharing and the size of masts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 665537,
      "EditedText": "My question very much touches on what Nora Radcliffe was saying. As Murray Tosh pointed out, under the present system, operators can appeal if they do not get prior approval from the local authority. If an operator does not comply with the terms of the prior approval, what rights do local authorities have? Has the Department of Trade and Industry ever taken sanctions against an operator who has not met the terms of the licence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 665539,
      "EditedText": "What if the operators felt that they could not do so?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 665541,
      "EditedText": "If the local authority says, \"You have not complied with what we asked, so we are not giving you prior approval,\" do the operators still have the right to appeal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 665542,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure. I think that they do. Please check that with the industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 665548,
      "EditedText": "Unless Nick Williams or Patrick McDonald can help me, that is something that we will have to take away—we will give you further information if we can get it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 665549,
      "EditedText": "As we are considering international comparisons, should we not examine what is happening in Finland, the Netherlands and Germany, for example?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick McDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 665550,
      "EditedText": "I can help with the application of guidelines for thermal effects. All European countries have adopted either the ICNIRP guidelines or the European Union recommendations. Some countries have the same experience as the UK, which is that some local authorities are concerned that those guidelines are not stringent enough, so they are delaying planning applications. I am not familiar with the planning side."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicholas Williams: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 665560,
      "EditedText": "No, but I can give a theoretical example. Many networks are add-ons—for example, they interconnect with a BT switch and ride over infrastructure that is operated by someone else. There is a plethora of network operators, but many of them house only technology that interconnects with a network. We would provide code powers only to someone, such as cable and mobile operators, who was rolling out the hard infrastructure to which many others would connect their much smaller switch networks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C665562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 665562,
      "EditedText": "Are masts the only way in which to provide the technology?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicholas Williams: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 665563,
      "EditedText": "Masts are only one part of it. Base stations or antennae can be placed on existing structures. There are ground-based masts, which understandably cause significant planning issues, but much of the coverage, particularly in major city areas, will be provided by antennae attached to the sides of buildings. A ground-based mast, one would hope, is a solution of last resort. We expect operators to attach antennae to existing structures, as that is what is economically best. We understand that 65 per cent of antennae are attached to existing masts or buildings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 665565,
      "EditedText": "I have made the committee aware of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 665570,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins (Vodafone Ltd): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 665575,
      "EditedText": "The good news is that more and more people are buying mobile phones. As the DTI representatives said, we have to build more sites to accommodate the additional customers. One of our typical base stations will handle 120 simultaneous calls. It does not take much mathematics to understand that, as the number of customers increases, more sites are needed.The good news is that, every time a site is added, it covers a smaller patch. Ultimately, we will be able to have sites that cover 100 or 200 sq m—they will be discreet and low powered, because they will not extend over a large area. At the end of this, there is a good story—this is not about more and more big things, it is about more and more small things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665580",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 665580,
      "EditedText": "No, the masts would still be required. If no existing buildings are suitable as locations for the infrastructure, the ultimate solution would be to erect a mast. However, we would first check whether an operator, such as Vodafone or Orange, was already active in the area, and try to share existing infrastructure. We do that throughout Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow (Orange Personal Communications Services Ltd): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 665581,
      "EditedText": "Technical innovation will allow different mast designs to be brought forward. The industry in the UK is committed to pursuing that, as has been amply demonstrated by the steps that it has taken to disguise structures as flagpoles, trees and other forms of urban environment. The process of innovation will continue. From a network-operator point of view, in both the current generation of services and in the future generation that the DTI outlined earlier, there is a progression towards smaller-designed masts, which are more appropriate to different types of landscape and different types of urban situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 665585,
      "EditedText": "Members might be aware that Vodaphone has produced an environmental handbook, which has been sent to all local authorities and which is readily available to any one. That handbook determines how we work.We also have an extensive programme of building sites in the Highlands and Islands. That is clearly an environmental issue, more so than elsewhere, but the masts are part of our way of life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 665586,
      "EditedText": "I am a bit concerned about all the hidden masts that are sprouting up all over the country. Who knows where they are? Is there any requirement to have some form of labelling on a site where there is a hidden mast?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 665589,
      "EditedText": "There is no obligation, though."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 665590,
      "EditedText": "The mast register is a voluntary commitment made by the industry this year. The only statutory obligation is for local authorities to keep a mast register of all radio communications sites in their jurisdiction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 665591,
      "EditedText": "The only other place where such information is held is at the Radiocommunications Agency. That agency holds records on every radio transmitter in the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 665597,
      "EditedText": "What is the proposed coverage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 665598,
      "EditedText": "Our networks are primarily city based, covering Glasgow, greater Glasgow, Edinburgh and parts of the Lothians, Dundee and Aberdeen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 665602,
      "EditedText": "We have been given no specific reason. Our understanding is that the objections are related to health and safety."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665603",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 665603,
      "EditedText": "Bob Perkins and Richard Atkins of Cellstructures, do you want to comment at this stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 665605,
      "EditedText": "Part of what I am going to ask has already been covered, but it might be helpful if you could run through the different operational and sight requirements for fixed-line and mobile systems and for systems operating at different frequency and power levels. Will you also discuss the technical limitations on the development of networks, and the constraints of current and developing systems and technology?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665606",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 665606,
      "EditedText": "Who wants to kick off?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 665609,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Richard, for that full answer. Do you want to add anything to that, Roger?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 665610,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is a pretty good answer. I would like to add a point that is sometimes missed about the operation of base stations. One cannot simply shove more and more power into a base station to make the signal go further, because what counts is the signal coming from the phone back to the base station. The operational range of a cell site is governed by how far the signal from the hand-held phone goes rather than by how far the signal from the base station goes. There is a sensible limit to the amount of power that we would put into a base station to make it balance with the mobile phone signal coming the other way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 665611,
      "EditedText": "How far is that? It is quite short—hundreds of metres—is it not?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665614",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 665614,
      "EditedText": "Can you explain the planning principles on which networks are developed? How do you see them changing as technology and demand increase?"
    },
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  },
  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 665617,
      "EditedText": "Atlantic Telecom involved the planning authorities even before we got to the planning stage of our networks. We have developed a good relationship with the officials of the local authorities.When setting up a city-based network, we try to factor in the capacity from day one, so that we do not have to add infrastructure later. The design that we put forward to the planners at first is the design that we hope to end up with.Each time that we request approval to site a base station, we give the planning authority the same information as we would if we were making a full planning application, which, in many cases, we are doing. The authority will make comments based on that information and we will try to take its points on board. We work very closely with planning authorities in Scotland, as, I am sure, the mobile companies have done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 665619,
      "EditedText": "How possible is it to be flexible in terms of the criteria that you use? Are the impediments primarily financial or technological?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Perkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 665625,
      "EditedText": "Colleagues have already said that it is affecting the rollout of certain networks. With certain local authorities, we have been involved in fairly advanced discussions that have now come to a complete halt until such time as the local authorities, collectively, feel that their questions have been answered reasonably. We hope that we will be able to make some progress towards that end at the end of this month, when COSLA convenes its seminar."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 665630,
      "EditedText": "Is it possible for the companies to provide us with some examples of where such work has been done and an indication of the costs? It would be helpful for the committee to understand the criteria on which such judgments are made and what the implications are, as opposed to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 665634,
      "EditedText": "Given what you said, one of the points that the committee might want to consider is a best practice code that highlights examples of good practice. Do you think that the industry will be willing to contribute its expertise to that process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 665635,
      "EditedText": "I mentioned the environmental handbook that we produce, which gives guidance to staff in the company and to planners and potential landlords on what we are happy to do. I am supportive of such a process."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665643",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 665643,
      "EditedText": "But technically?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665645",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 176
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 665645,
      "EditedText": "Do the installations interfere with each other?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C665646",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
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      "ContributionID": 665646,
      "EditedText": "There has to be some space between antennae, because there is a risk."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665647",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 176
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 665647,
      "EditedText": "What proportion of installations is shared?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665651",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
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      "EditedText": "My colleague has advised me that 30 per cent of Vodafone's installations are shared."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665658",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 665658,
      "EditedText": "Vodafone is comfortable with the outcome of the report on the issue by the House of Commons Science and Technology Select Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665659",
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      "ID": 176
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 665659,
      "EditedText": "The Science and Technology Committee report gave a balanced and objective view. Its recommendations were fair. The industry supports the notion that further research needs to be done and that it can play a responsible part in that process, by independently funding research or by providing mechanisms for research to happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665661",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 665661,
      "EditedText": "Are we all comfortable with the findings of the House of Commons and with the European Union advice on reductions and limits?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665663",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 665663,
      "EditedText": "As I mentioned earlier, Vodafone is now a Europe-based company. We took the decision prior to the publication of the select committee report to fall in line with the EU recommendations, which are based on ICNIRP."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665664",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 665664,
      "EditedText": "Do the limits that are being discussed have an impact on the geography and unique aspects of the Scottish landscape? Will there be any effect on the rollout and service levels?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665667",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 665667,
      "EditedText": "Is there any impact on exclusion zones around masts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665672",
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      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Perkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 665672,
      "EditedText": "As infrastructure providers, we place a requirement on ourselves to ensure that our installations are totally secure. The network operators require it of us too, but even if they did not, we would ensure it, because it is the way in which we operate. We build appropriate additional space into the initial plans for any site to ensure that sites are totally secure. As some of the installations that we are currently considering are in places such as professional sports grounds, they need to be—and are—well protected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 665673,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about an evolving planning framework and protocol for how operators site their facilities. If we were to move to an arrangement of exclusion zones for future planning applications, would it be possible to review existing installations? What implications would that have? Are there installations that have been sited in areas that might now be in exclusion zones under current or future procedures?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 665674,
      "EditedText": "We stated in August that all base stations that we bring into service from now on will conform to EU requirements—if I understand the question. Although we believe that all our existing sites conform to those requirements, they will be checked and those that infringe the regime will be modified by the end of 2000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 665682,
      "EditedText": "If there were a site for this building that was 200 m away, one can imagine all the stonework the signal would have to get through. It just makes life so much more difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 665684,
      "EditedText": "Is it fair to say that the microcells technology that is coming may resolve some of those issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 665689,
      "EditedText": "Would any of the witnesses like to add anything to the answer that I received to my question to the DTI about satellites? Do you concur with its view, and see that technology coming into being?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 665690,
      "EditedText": "Satellites offer a valuable service. At least one commercial satellite service is up and running, perhaps two. However, we have 5 million customers in the United Kingdom, and I cannot conceive of the technology that would get 5 million users through a satellite link."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 665692,
      "EditedText": "Pretty well, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 665698,
      "EditedText": "I go along with that. I would welcome the amendment in Scotland to include the prior notification and all the benefits of that. It works fine. It is a short cut that you can take after you have made all the decisions, reached all the agreements, and are wondering how to get through the final process. The local authority is comfortable because it has been involved in less effort but is happy with what you are doing. The alternative is to slow things down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Greer (Vodafone Ltd): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 665705,
      "EditedText": "My name is Nick Greer and I am the environmental and planning manager for Vodafone.I can provide anecdotal evidence to answer the question. Vodafone has, since 1994, written to all local planning authorities in the UK because we experienced difficulties as a result of planning officers' understanding of the legislation, and—as the committee has heard from some of my colleagues—with some of the technology. That is one of the reasons why I encouraged the company to produce an environmental handbook, which I will plug because I wrote it.When the handbook was distributed last in April 1999, the best response was from the 32 Scottish local authorities, from whom we had a 50 per cent response rate. Most of the responses thanked us and said that the handbook was helpful. They felt that it explained many things that they either did not understand or that they had no guidance on. The response rate for the whole UK was 15 per cent.The issue is not one of full planning, although I echo my colleague from Orange's comments to the effect that greater public consultation is long overdue in Scotland. Full planning will, in my opinion, slow the process down. It will give more time to local planning officers who are overworked, under-resourced and overstretched, but it will not enable them to do a better job. What is needed is an education and information campaign.I sit on the telecommunications working group for England for the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions and the Department of Trade and Industry. We have been advocating the same process because this issue is not relevant only to Scotland, but applies to every local planning officer in the UK.There are other mechanisms that could be brought in that would be more beneficial than giving greater time to the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 665707,
      "EditedText": "If full planning permission is required for every application that is made in one part of the UK, in order to meet coverage requirements, particularly for third-generation technology, we will concentrate on areas of the country where we can achieve the targets more quickly. I do not want to end up in a situation in Scotland where some local authorities are very good at dealing with full planning applications, but others are not. The result would be that a technological desert would appear in certain parts of Scotland and there would be a dearth of modern mobile telecommunications coverage.It is sometimes easy to forget that mobile telephony is not just an issue for the individual consumer or for businesses in Scotland, but a global industry. When businesses consider investing in a location, they want to see what infrastructure is in place there: roads, education and so on. If they see that mobile telephony in its new sense is absent, they may decide to invest away from that locality. If the Government wants to ensure that this country becomes the e-commerce centre of the world—certainly of Europe—and the home to a knowledge-driven economy, mobile telephony will have a part to play. If full planning permission is advocated in certain areas, those areas may not receive the modern telecommunications coverage that they want within the same time frame as everyone else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Greer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 665708,
      "EditedText": "Under the current regime of permitted development rights in England and the 42-day process, a majority of general permitted development order applications are considered under delegated powers; in other words, they are dealt with under the planning legislation, taking into account the technical limitations. I must echo the comments that were made this morning by my colleagues at the DTI. In my experience—and we may be able to supply evidence of this subsequently, if that would be helpful—once a full planning application is decided on, the matter moves outside the control of the planning officer, operating within the siting-and-appearance or planning policy framework, and becomes more of a local political issue. I think that we are all honest enough to acknowledge what the implications of that can be in certain circumstances. The decision can become one based less on good planning policy and guidance than on local politics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 665711,
      "EditedText": "How can we or the Westminster Parliament promote the widening of geographical coverage? What is the mechanism for that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 665712,
      "EditedText": "Vodafone and Cellnet are collectively engaged in a programme to roll out coverage in the Highlands and Islands. The programme involves a certain amount of funding from the EU, which is accompanied by an obligation to provide 90 or 95 per cent coverage of all A and B roads."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Greer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 665715,
      "EditedText": "On covering A and B roads, as described earlier, radio waves are not confined by anything apart from terrain. Those radio signals will travel many miles from a high point. By virtue of the way the technology works, large areas of countryside will be effectively covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 665716,
      "EditedText": "I am slightly concerned about that answer. If your answer was hinged purely on your obligations as they stand at the moment, I can understand where you are coming from. I can appreciate that, if the obligations were changed to provide for the scenario suggested by Murray Tosh, it would be done on a geographical basis.Part of our agenda is to address issues of social inclusion. I was once a candidate in Roxburgh and Berwickshire. That area has attracted a lot of attention recently because of the dire economic problems there. The coverage was very poor when I was a candidate. The geographical argument would, in my view, stand up to scrutiny, and I would like you to comment further on how that would help us to accommodate our policy objectives for social inclusion for the areas that are in greatest need, if your obligations change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 665717,
      "EditedText": "The question is more difficult for an operator to answer. It is more a concern of central policy making. The Government's objectives will be set out in terms of how it wants the third generation of mobile telephony to be advocated and advanced. It did that in the document it published. Its priority is to ensure that, within a reasonable time frame, the population of the country is covered as speedily as possible. If you seek an obligation based on geographical coverage, it is up to colleagues in the DTI and other parts of Government to advocate that in the licences that they issue.Geographical coverage will come anyway with meeting population coverage. As I mentioned earlier, that is already happening. Having met and now greatly exceeded population coverage, we at Orange want to ensure that we try to get as much geographical area covered as is reasonably possible. We want to reach over 90 per cent geographical coverage within a reasonable time frame. How that happens depends mainly on how the licences are issued and which criteria are set within that.Your colleagues in the National Assembly for Wales have recently secured EU funding for regional development work to improve information and communications technology across the principality. That includes both mobile and fixed infrastructure. I do not believe that there is any distinction between population and geographical coverage. You could look in other directions for encouragement and investment, for example, EU funding for geographical coverage in areas such as that which Helen Eadie mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 665724,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone else wish to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 665726,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 665728,
      "EditedText": "For the sake of absolute clarity, I want to raise two matters. Although our planning regime deals with complex and important issues, I think that the view of the industry is that planning policy needs to be developed at a Scotland-wide level and that it should not be significantly different from UK policy. Secondly, is it a fair assessment to say that you do not believe that local authorities have any role other than as regulatory agencies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 665729,
      "EditedText": "Not all sites go down the general permitted development order route. As soon as masts are higher than 15 m, operators are obliged to apply for planning permission. The local authority has a massive role to play. For example, full planning permission is required for an area of outstanding natural beauty or special scientific interest. That is why I referred to the general permitted development order system as a short cut. Do we want to overload the planning authorities with all this work, when all that is involved is a 15 m pole like all the others? Planning authorities should be able to say, \"We are happy with it there, so we can just tick the box.\" That is not to denigrate the role of the planning authority; we value its role in the system and want to discuss matters with it. I support the route that enables straightforward matters to go through more quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Perkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 665732,
      "EditedText": "In the notes that we submitted to the committee, we set out various issues on which a continuing dialogue between the industry and local concerns can be set in motion. That requires commitment and involvement on both sides, but we believe that it will be beneficial—it will be better for local interests, as represented by the local authority, and for the industry. It will mean that situations do not suddenly arise where a site causes problems and everybody expends time and energy trying to get what they want out of the matter. If there is continuing dialogue, the operators will, as far as they feel able to, have shared with the local authority well in advance their view of how things will develop in the area. The local authority will have garnered views from the local communities, councillors, local commerce and so on. That will enable it to have more than a vague policy on telecommunications or a few local guidelines that are capable of multiple interpretation and that depend for their interpretation on who happens to be in the chair of a sub-committee of three on a wet Wednesday night—members will see that I spent 30 years in local government. Continuing dialogue will give rise to a climate of working together in which both sides know pretty well what is acceptable to the other and what each other's objectives are. In that way, we can make progress. As our submission indicates, the telecommunications industry moves and develops very quickly. Without an awareness of the future or an ability to think laterally about national guidelines for local communities set by the Scottish Parliament, the pace of technology will overtake those authorities that are not up to speed with the implications. Everything has a cost, but if one were to start the process of general dialogue early—now, for example—one would reap the benefits in two or three years' time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Greer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 573.0,
      "ContributionID": 665737,
      "EditedText": "Retrospective legislation could have horrendous implications for the networks and the services that are provided in Scotland. For a mobile operator, each site does not stand on its own. Each site links into a network like part of a jigsaw puzzle—if one piece is taken away, several others are affected. It may be blowing our own trumpet to mention this, but we have operated a voluntary code since 1994-95. If someone tells us that we could have done better with a site that is not as good as could be expected, we will put up our hands and admit that, between 1992 and 1995, we sometimes did not get things right. I have revisited problematic sites and about 40 sites have been moved. In the past three or four years, we have not had to do that—we have been learning all the time and will continue to learn. We have already responded to voluntary requests and I welcome that approach. I have answered letters from MSPs, MPs and members of the public. We are happy to make improvements where we can, so I welcome that approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 665738,
      "EditedText": "What are the benefits of participating in the telecommunications working group in England and Wales? Do you feel that establishing the code of good practice has been a valuable exercise, and how do you see it developing over the next two or three years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 665740,
      "EditedText": "As a fixed operator, Atlantic is not party to that code. However, we have agreed a code of working practice with each local authority in Scotland. That is a matter of public record and anyone can have access to those documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 665744,
      "EditedText": "At the most recent meeting but one of the Scottish Advisory Committee on Telecommunications, it was suggested that a liaison group be set up between the Scottish Parliament and the telecommunications operators in Scotland. I understand that that is moving forward, although I do not know who the contact is. That is probably the best vehicle for communication in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 606.0,
      "ContributionID": 665752,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we nominate Andy Kerr."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lynn Tullis: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 612.0,
      "ContributionID": 665755,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The time for the next three meetings will be 9 o'clock. Andy Kerr will seek the committee's permission to go into private session. Questions will then be put to the witnesses at 9.30 am as the committee proceeds to evidence taking. Andy Kerr must propose that they are taken in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25734,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lynn Tullis: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 616.0,
      "ContributionID": 665757,
      "EditedText": "That the areas of questioning to witnesses over the next three meetings should be taken in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25734,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 622.0,
      "ContributionID": 665760,
      "EditedText": "I do not know what they are. I think that there are rules in standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25734,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lynn Tullis: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 628.0,
      "ContributionID": 665763,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 630.0,
      "ContributionID": 665764,
      "EditedText": "I wondered how much of what took place in the earlier meeting needed to happen in private. The justification for having private sessions was that we would save on official report and broadcasting time. However, the official reporters and the broadcasting people were present throughout that session. I do not think that we would have been remotely damaged if the briefing by Stephen Curtis had been delivered in public. We did not need to have it written down. I am not sure what the point of this morning's privacy was. I do not say that in a disputatious or combative way—the reason was just not obvious to me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 632.0,
      "ContributionID": 665765,
      "EditedText": "We must agree our line of questioning. To do so in public, before those who are submitting evidence to us arrive, is a bit daft. I wanted to highlight that aspect rather than matters of presentation and so on—it was more to do with the scope and direction of our questioning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 634.0,
      "ContributionID": 665766,
      "EditedText": "Such sessions are surely more about discussing tactics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25731,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25731,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 665458,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I ask members of the public to vacate their seats. I expect that the private session will not last longer than 45 minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 665462,
      "EditedText": "Could you give me some information on the contribution of the telecommunications sector to the economies of Scotland and the UK as a whole?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 665472,
      "EditedText": "It is a question that needs to be answered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 665475,
      "EditedText": "Could you outline them for us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 665481,
      "EditedText": "Do you monitor that, to ensure that they are meeting their targets?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 665483,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned that the next generation of mobile phones was coming. What is the likely future phasing of the licensing and obligations on the sector?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 665485,
      "EditedText": "Will the obligations under those licences be the same as for previous ones?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 665486,
      "EditedText": "The coverage obligation will be 80 per cent rather than 90 per cent, to be achieved by 2007."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 665492,
      "EditedText": "Do you regard 80 per cent as virtually saturation point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 665495,
      "EditedText": "I will begin by talking about the universal service obligation. At the moment that applies only to voice telephony and to fixed telecommunications links. It requires the operators, mainly in the form of BT, to provide coverage, across the whole country, of a basic voice telephony service. The Office of Telecommunications is reviewing the universal service obligation.Some of the issues that will arise in the context of that review, which is out to consultation, will concern whether the universal service obligation should be extended to broad band. There are arguments as to whether such an obligation, which is set by the Government, should follow social developments and respond to them or anticipate them. That issue is being raised in the on-going consultation process. If the committee wanted to pursue that matter, the universal service obligation might be something to consider, although it does not extend to mobile telephony."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicholas Williams: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 665497,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I can answer your question on geographic coverage. In Finland, people tend to live in the south, near urban areas, and it is easy to build a network within that constraint. People often have a second home in the countryside, near the main conurbation. I suspect that geographic coverage is not 100 per cent, or even 80 per cent. If you want further information, I shall try to dig some out, but I do not know the answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 665499,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 665501,
      "EditedText": "It is not a condition of the licences, because it follows from health and safety legislation rather than from the licences. In its guidance, the Government expects compliance with health and safety legislation to include the operator being able to demonstrate that he has complied with NRPB guidelines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665503",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick McDonald (Department of Trade and Industry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 665503,
      "EditedText": "There are three levels on which the precautionary principle is elaborated. In the UK, the precautionary principle applies interdepartmentally to all Government activity. The European Commission is also considering the most appropriate way in which to apply the precautionary principle to its legislation. Mr Prodi announced last week that the Commission is reconsidering the way in which article 130r of the Maastricht treaty is worded and applied. Globally, the application of the precautionary principle is being reviewed following the Rio declaration. The precautionary principle is an ill-defined subject that is particularly difficult for policy makers to tackle sensibly and rationally. I cannot give much information on the timetable for guidance. Discussions are being held, and I am sure that the Government will try to produce sensible guidance as soon as it can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick McDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 665505,
      "EditedText": "Current levels are based on well-established thermal effects of microwave radiation. The limits are based on discussion between international experts on what constitutes an acceptable level of exposure, both occupationally and to the consumer. The issue of occupational exposure is broadly agreed, and there is little debate on acceptable occupational exposure levels. That argument includes the issue of exclusion zones around base stations, which vary in extent but are usually no more than a few metres.The House of Commons Select Committee on Science and Technology has recommended that the industry adopt the ICNIRP guidelines, which include an arbitrary fivefold reduction in the limits of exposure to the general public. That reduction is generally agreed to be arbitrary. The World Health Organisation, ICNIRP and the NRPB make it quite clear that there is no scientific basis on which to apply that reduction. That is a sensible precautionary step, however, and we are discussing with the industry the potential impact of applying ICNIRP guidelines to its networks. I cannot say much more about that at this stage, as those discussions are still in progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick McDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 665509,
      "EditedText": "No. The fivefold reduction came from the ICNIRP, which is an international body but not part of the European Community. It is a body of experts. They are quite clear that the reduction is not based on scientific evidence; it is a precautionary, arbitrary reduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 665512,
      "EditedText": "I would like to quote from paragraph 25 of the main part of the DTI's submission. It states:\"Whatever views there may be about the appropriateness of the application of the Precautionary Principle in respect of mobile communications equipment, it is clear that, because public exposure is so low, any arbitrary measure, whether in reducing exposure or in specifying a ‘safe' distance from an installation, would be extremely difficult to justify, and by reducing network availability would restrict access to mobile communications services.\"Is that the present position of the DTI?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 665517,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 665521,
      "EditedText": "It is a question of balance between the desire for a national network that is effective throughout the country and local considerations, whether environmental or concerned with health and safety."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 665527,
      "EditedText": "Any inconsistency in approach will entail an inconsistency in network coverage. That has a national impact and might also have an impact on the competitiveness of the local area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 665529,
      "EditedText": "It is possible that, if we had full planning control, we would end up in a few years' time in a situation not unlike the one in which we find ourselves now. The intervening period, however, would probably be one of high uncertainty for the industry, affecting investment plans and confidence. We could lose time and fall behind other countries in developing our telecommunications network."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 665531,
      "EditedText": "Planning is about getting the right time and the right place. If that means that things take a little longer, so be it.So far we have been discussing issues such as how planning will hold up rollout. However, if companies already have 90 per cent coverage, is there anything to discuss?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 665538,
      "EditedText": "In answer to your first question, in England and Wales, if an operator applies to a local authority for prior approval, the operator must have complied with the conditions of permitted development. If that has not happened, the local authority can refuse to give prior approval. Such conditions include protecting the amenity of buildings as far as is practicable.The local authority might also wish to comment on the siting or appearance of apparatus, even if the conditions of permitted development have been met. In such circumstances, the operators would try to accommodate the planning authority's concerns, although there might be technical reasons why they could not do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 665540,
      "EditedText": "It would be an issue for discussion between the planning authority and the operators. Those discussions often take place before prior approval is sought. If that cannot be resolved, the local authority must take the decision as to whether it refuses prior approval, and the operators must decide whether to appeal against that decision or seek an alternative site."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 665543,
      "EditedText": "What about sanctions from the Department of Trade and Industry if licence conditions are not met?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 665544,
      "EditedText": "I am not aware that we have identified any need to do anything under licence conditions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 665545,
      "EditedText": "Do we know what percentage of masts is shared?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 665546,
      "EditedText": "The figure that we have is about a third."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 665551,
      "EditedText": "There are strong similarities between prior approval and full planning. Arguably, the only major differences are the number of days that the local authority has to consider the proposal and that if the authority does not respond, it goes ahead. What is the effect of having to apply for full planning approval on the slowdown of the rollout?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick McDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 665564,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether the committee is aware of this, but Sir William Stewart is holding a public meeting in Edinburgh next Thursday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 665566,
      "EditedText": "Could mobile phone transmissions be done via satellite, as opposed to via masts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick McDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 665567,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of problems with satellite infrastructure. The telephone handset would have to be more powerful, because the switch would be further away. With geostationary satellites, the time delay means that real-time applications such as video would not be possible. Satellites are not a complete solution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 665569,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 665572,
      "EditedText": "I will kick off with a general question. How is the siting, appearance and size of telecommunications equipment likely to be affected by demand and technological development?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 665573,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that almost everyone will want to answer that one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Perkins (Cellstructures International Ltd): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 665574,
      "EditedText": "As members will have seen from our memorandum, we are an independent network provider rather than an operator. As well as being about public service, our perspective is about using leading-edge technology to achieve the delicate balancing act that is necessary in public life between the regulatory process and the need to generate income and wealth for, in this case, the Scottish nation, and, in the case of local authorities, the local environment. We—particularly Richard Atkins, our technical director—spend a lot of time researching how we can use the newest technology to reduce the environmental impact and introduce new and better-quality services. As our colleagues from the DTI indicated, the industry is concerned not about coverage, but about capacity. More and more people are using mobile telecommunications—there are more and more applications for this technology—and the existing coverage cannot cope with the demand. Some of the demand is industry developed and some of it is local need developed; in Scotland, almost uniquely in the British context, sparsity is a factor. We, as providers of infrastructure, will look wherever possible to introduce the newest technology and the newest techniques both to develop the network and to reduce the impact that it will have on the environment and on health and safety. That is the best global answer that I can give you at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 665584,
      "EditedText": "All the operators recognise the increasing number of environmental concerns. There are, therefore, certain processes that we at Orange will undertake. Our first preference is to look for existing structures—whether masts or buildings—at which to locate base stations. If that is not possible, we must look for alternatives, such as ground-based stations that are well disguised or designed to blend in with the environment. We are committed to the use of existing masts and structures.We are also committed to technical innovation, particularly in relation to microcell technology using small lamp post designs and other street furniture. That shows a clear commitment to the environmental objectives to which we all aspire."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 665596,
      "EditedText": "Our licence is different from those of mobile operators. As a fixed-line operator, my company has no specific coverage obligation in its licence. We are required to provide coverage for anyone in our licensed area who makes a reasonable request for it, but we have no specific figures to meet. We are probably about three quarters of the way through building our networks in Scotland. We expect that they will be pretty much fully completed by the end of this year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 665600,
      "EditedText": "We have certainly experienced a slow-down in the past six to nine months. As you heard from the DTI, some local authorities would, for different reasons, effectively ban telecommunications infrastructure. To give you a good example, we have been in discussions with North Lanarkshire Council for well over a year. We thought that we had secured access to 14 or 15 rooftops to locate equipment. After we have gone through various stages, access has been delayed and delayed. Unless there is a change in the attitude of the council, the only effective way in which we will be able to complete our network will be to build some tower infrastructure. That is the last thing that we want to do. We would far rather come to an agreement with the local authority and put our infrastructure on to suitable rooftops. All that has slowed us up in the past year. We now have an alternative plan to build towers, but we are still in discussion with the local authority and we hope that we can resolve matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 665601,
      "EditedText": "Are the objections to those rooftop installations visual or on health grounds?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 665607,
      "EditedText": "Can we have the idiot's guide please? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 665608,
      "EditedText": "Because we are dealing with a terrestrial radio-based network service, we are confined to the way in which radio signals propagate—in other words, how far and wide they can be broadcast from a central point. In that respect, Orange is no different from any other radio broadcast operator. We have a slightly higher radio frequency than that of, for example, Vodafone. That gives us an additional technical requirement because our signals do not travel as far from a central point as Vodafone's would from the same point. The higher you go in radio frequency, the less distance the signals will travel.In planning a network, we have to ensure that we use the minimum possible number of base stations. To do that, we try to find the optimum site that provides us with the geographic or population coverage for the area that we want to cover. Then there are other factors to take into account, such as natural and man-made topography features that will influence the distance that radio signals will travel.For example, in the fenland of England, which is relatively flat, the distance that the radio signal will travel is proportionally greater than in a hilly area of the Highlands of Scotland. We have to bear in mind the various features, man-made and natural, that will affect the radio signal. We are not just rolling out the network to new areas; we are trying to provide additional capacity in areas where the network is already present. We have to re-engineer the network to provide the optimum coverage in those areas. In improving coverage, we have to deal with radio signals, which do not like too many natural or man-made features, and with a high radio frequency specification, which will impose additional constraints. We also want to ensure that we use the minimum number of base stations in planning the network—we aim for the optimum location of those stations to achieve that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 665612,
      "EditedText": "No. As has been said, it depends on the landscape. In the middle of the city, it is a few hundred metres; in open country, it could be 30 km. It depends on the obstacles that are in the way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 665613,
      "EditedText": "As I said, our technology is totally different from the mobile phone technology and operates at a very low power level. Atlantic operates in a frequency band at 2.4 GHz, which is much higher than the frequency that mobile phone operators use. The band in which we operate is the ISM band—the industrial, scientific and medical band. We do not have unique spectrum, as mobile operators have. We have to share the band with other users. Other types of application in that band include industrial lasers and medical laser scalpels. The most prominent use in the ISM band is probably a device called a radio LAN—local area network. Those devices are designed to work within buildings to connect one computer to another by radio without the use of wires. The guidelines that apply to them are, as one might imagine, very stringent, because they operate in buildings where people are working. That is the type of technology that we use in an outdoor environment, so our base stations are limited to a maximum power output of 100 mW, which is a 10th of a watt. A mainstream broadcast station typically operates at something like 500,000 W. That gives an idea of how low our power level of a 10th of a watt is—the power level that we use is so insignificant as to be almost unmeasurable. Our network is a city-based network that operates to a 1 km radius cell. Because of the low power levels that we use, it is a very small radius indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 665615,
      "EditedText": "When one begins a network, one's objective is to cover large areas with the least possible number of sites. If there are investment problems, one's instinct is usually to go to the highest points or to existing structures such as Independent Television Authority or BBC masts or high buildings. Winter hill, which I mentioned, is typical of that and covers a big area. One would aim to create an impressive coverage map so that one can sell the service and get customers. As customers are taken on, capacity has to be added. As in the case of Winter hill, more and more smaller sites have to be added to provide local capacity. A provider begins with a small number of high sites and migrates to a large number of small sites."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 665618,
      "EditedText": "Orange uses various computer models to work out our coverage needs in a local council area. Although there is no requirement to make any prior notification to councils about plans in their areas, we follow the code of best practice from England and Wales. That code sets out commitments for local authorities and network operators with regard to information, prior consultation on applications and negotiations about specific sites. We want to ensure that local councils are as well informed as possible about our plans for their area, so that they can properly consider them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 665620,
      "EditedText": "I go along with what Richard just said. A policy of prior notification, which exists in England and Wales, could be adopted in Scotland. When a planning application is received by a local authority, it does not come as a surprise; it probably arrives with a nod from the planning officer. There will have been discussions and the plans will have been agreed to. The paper submission is just a formality. The degree of flexibility depends on the circumstances. Everybody has to understand what everybody else wants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 665622,
      "EditedText": "I got the impression that you perceived a difference between Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 665624,
      "EditedText": "Is that having an effect on development?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 665626,
      "EditedText": "I have had some experience of mobile phone masts being erected in the area that I represented, where a variety of possible sites existed on which the masts could—technically—have been erected. In effect, it was easier—financially and in terms of planning—to place the mast nearer to housing than on available alternative land. On such decisions, do the companies perform a cost-benefit analysis that includes public amenity consideration? From a purely business point of view, there might be an argument for putting the structure in the cheapest place where land is most easily available. Do you go through a process of considering alternatives and balancing other considerations against those of cost and ease of erection?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 665628,
      "EditedText": "Presumably, everything in your business comes down to a cost-benefit analysis to some extent, as that is how business operates. I am interested in whether the easiest and cheapest solution always applies. To what extent are you prepared to examine environmental and social considerations and to adopt a more expensive solution rather than a cheaper one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 665640,
      "EditedText": "We will continue to focus on site selection and will deal with health in a moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 665642,
      "EditedText": "When it comes to sharing a structure, several issues must be taken into account. First, is the mast structure in a location where we are trying to provide new coverage or capacity? Secondly, is the structure currently suitable for the attachment of additional equipment? Thirdly, is the landlord willing to have an additional operator on his land? Lastly, is the section of the local authority that deals with town and country planning willing to have the site changed in some way?Those are the four principal issues that we take into account when investigating a site share. However, the height or shape of structures that we would erect would have to be changed to accommodate other operators' equipment. Very few changes are made to substantial structures more than 100 m high, such as radio and television broadcasting installations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 665644,
      "EditedText": "That is not an issue, as operators place their own equipment on the structures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 665649,
      "EditedText": "We will not hold you to these figures; we know that they are just approximate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 665650,
      "EditedText": "No, the figures are exact. Of 125 operational base stations in Scotland, Atlantic has 16 towers, of which seven are shared."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 665652,
      "EditedText": "Similarly, 30 per cent of Orange's installations are shared."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 665653,
      "EditedText": "What regulations are there for operators in comparable European Union nations, such as Finland or the Netherlands?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 665654,
      "EditedText": "Vodafone has a number of European interests. Vastly different planning regimes are in operation across Europe, but I do not know the details. For example, the Netherlands regime will be different from the Greek regime."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 665655,
      "EditedText": "I meant more social democratic, northern European countries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 665656,
      "EditedText": "Orange has limited experience of overseas operations. We have only recently begun to operate networks in Belgium, Switzerland and Austria. I would be more than happy to supply more detailed information on planning matters. The town and country planning procedures are vastly different among those three countries. Where Belgium is relatively relaxed, Switzerland is very regulated as regards planning issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 665657,
      "EditedText": "I want to establish a baseline of understanding. Do you acknowledge current advice that mobile phone masts do not affect health?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665662",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 665662,
      "EditedText": "Discussions are on-going between industry and the Department of Trade and Industry. In light of the Stewart inquiry, which is due to report in the spring of next year, a decision on how the United Kingdom wants to take forward the adoption of the European Union recommendation or the much stricter full ICNIRP compliance will be forthcoming."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665665",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 665665,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665666",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 665666,
      "EditedText": "The EU may ask for levels to be reduced fivefold. Is it not the case that the inverse square law applies to radiation? For example, if the distance was 8 m and it was doubled to 16 m, that would achieve a 64-fold reduction. Therefore, only a modest increase in safety distance is required to achieve a fivefold reduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665670",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
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      "EditedText": "We have secure compounds around our towers, because we do not want people to enter and damage either themselves or the equipment."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665671",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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      "ID": 1908,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 665671,
      "EditedText": "What is the view of Cellstructures International?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C665675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 665675,
      "EditedText": "I just want to clarify what your definition is. If you are referring to exclusion zones as primarily the distance around the antenna to which someone can gain uncontrolled access, then exclusion zones are generally around a few metres. For example, in the case of a ground-based 15 m mast, that means that nobody could gain access to that exclusion zone.If you are referring to a more general precautionary principle about the siting of base stations hundreds of metres away from certain types of installations or residential land use, such zones would have an impact on the ability of operators to provide service to some places."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665677",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 665677,
      "EditedText": "I do not believe that any of our current installations would fall foul of the exclusion zones you describe but, if they did, we are in a different position from mobile operators, as we are a fixed-line operator. To remove a base station would disrupt service to customers, to whom we are obliged to provide service. We might fall foul of the regulatory system if we attempted to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665679",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 665679,
      "EditedText": "You talked about the effect of a 200 m exclusion zone. In terms of technology, why would that have such a detrimental effect?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 665681,
      "EditedText": "It is all about proximity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 665685,
      "EditedText": "That is true in the sense that the more there are, the lower power they are, but that would mean filling the place up with microcells."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 665686,
      "EditedText": "Can I ask an idiot question? How big is a microcell? We are talking about filling the place up, but is a microcell something that could be plonked on top of a lamp post and nobody would notice, or is it the size of a suitcase?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665691",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 665691,
      "EditedText": "Am I right in saying that the limiting factor on the whole service provision is the mobile phone itself and how far it can send a signal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665693",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 665693,
      "EditedText": "Let us move on to planning issues."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 665697,
      "EditedText": "There will have to be some mechanism in the planning system to ensure that we meet that target. Otherwise, it will be very difficult to do so."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665699",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 665699,
      "EditedText": "I concur with my colleagues, but I will add that it would be detrimental to the industry—particularly to a Scottish-based company such as Atlantic—if planning regulations in Scotland were different to those in the rest of the UK. The licences by which we operate are issued by the UK Government.Over the past few years I believe that we have been doing exactly what is being advocated in terms of permitted development rights. We have consulted planning and estates people and we have taken their views into account in all the developments in which we have been involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665709",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 665709,
      "EditedText": "I want to focus on a related issue, because you have answered the question that I was going to ask about the effect of varying the regime in different parts of the UK. I do not know whether this is possible, but if we in Scotland could insist on a different service obligation that took into account geographical as well as population coverage, what effect would that have on the development of the industry in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 665710,
      "EditedText": "Because our initial obligation is to provide population coverage, clearly our initial efforts are to ensure that we do that. However, having met that obligation under our current rollout programme, the focus has shifted to providing geographical coverage. We, as an operator, are now concentrating on that. In future, geographical coverage will play a part but, in the first instance, our efforts will be directed towards maximising population coverage, because of the licence obligations that we have to meet. However, geographical coverage is important, and that is evident from what Orange is now doing in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 665720,
      "EditedText": "But you can appeal against that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Greer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 665721,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 665722,
      "EditedText": "I will return to the technical question that I asked at the beginning, about the use of microcells vis-à-vis masts. As I understand it, you did not feel that you could expand the system using microcells alone. Suppose you wanted to expand in the Highlands. The easiest way to do it is by using masts, because you can put them high up so that they cover a wide area. On the other hand, that approach is most likely to raise most objections, because the masts will be visually intrusive. Is the objection to using microcells economic, or is it a technical impossibility? I am thinking along the lines of small is beautiful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 665723,
      "EditedText": "There are microcells and there are microcells. Microcells in the city cover 100 m to 200 m. If you walk along the high street and go around a corner, you cease to be covered by the microcell, so your call has to be maintained somehow. It is done by handing that call back to the big site on a rooftop somewhere, which searches round and says, \"Here is a new microcell. Hand it back down there.\" That is how microcells work in a town.In the Highlands and Islands, for example, we have quite a lot of sites—we have had to use 200 to cover the roads—but there is not a lot of traffic there to make us build more sites for capacity reasons. However, let us assume that a popular tourist destination overloaded the nearest cell. In such a situation, we would be looking to install something that was quite small and discreet for that tourist location. In a sense, that is a different kind of microcell: it is a rural cell."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Greer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 665727,
      "EditedText": "To take up Roger's analogy of going around the corner and losing coverage, another factor is that microcells in city centres are for slow-moving traffic, that is, people who are walking. As a person walks between one cell and another, the signal between the phone and the base station is handed off to each cell as the phone moves along. The switch between base stations takes approximately 400 milliseconds, and when you are walking, the system has time to cope. If you took the A82 to Loch Lomond and you were driving at 50 mph, and there was a base station every 200 m, the system would probably drop you out at the third radio base station, because the system would not have had time to hand off between the stations. That is the technical argument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ContributionID": 665733,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have established, convener, that the industry welcomes the development of policy at a local authority level, as long as that is done in a clearly understood climate. Some people have suggested that we should give local authorities power retrospectively to examine existing facilities. How would that affect the industry, given the confidence that you have just expressed on how the industry can work with local councils?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 571.0,
      "ContributionID": 665736,
      "EditedText": "The application of retrospective planning would be extremely damaging for the network. On what basis would one advocate retrospective planning? Whether people like the approach that is currently used is one thing, but we are doing everything in accordance with what we are required to do, in a legal and regulatory sense. Orange and the other operators have, for 18 months, advocated the introduction in Scotland of guidelines similar to those in place in England and Wales, which shows our commitment and the fact that we are willing to work with the new regime. We can work only within current legislation. It would be particularly damaging to the network as it is provided in Scotland suddenly to suggest that the legislation was totally wrong and that we had to review it, both in terms of its meaning and its application."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 665739,
      "EditedText": "The establishment of a code of best practice was a welcome development for the industry and for national Government and local government in England and Wales. It set out the technical background to the industry. Planning officers, especially those who have other planning issues to deal with, do not necessarily have time to understand thoroughly the details of how a network is planned and what considerations and constraints are involved. The code set out some of those criteria in layman's terms.The code set out the framework according to which operators have to deal with local authorities, how we approach them and how they expect us to approach site-specific issues. It also set out how local authorities should deal with applications, the criteria that they should consider and the information that they should ask for and receive. Overall, it has set out a valuable framework. We hope that it does not collect dust on a planning officer's desk somewhere; we hope that it is actively used and appreciated. It is currently being revised in accordance with the changes that have taken place. We would welcome a publication of such a document for Scotland, because it would give local authorities the assurances that they seek. It would also encourage overall consistency in developing the industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Greer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 665743,
      "EditedText": "After our experiences in England with the telecommunications working group, we feel that on-going dialogue would be beneficial. One gets to know the individuals concerned, so that they are quite happy to pick up the phone or send an e-mail for clarification rather than wait for a formal meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 665745,
      "EditedText": "I draw this part of our meeting to a close. I appreciate the effort that all of our witnesses have put in. Your evidence has been interesting and informative. It may be a good idea to meet again in a less formal environment. We may have to follow up some of the issues that have been raised and take up several offers of further information. We appreciate your visit, which has been of benefit to our work this morning. Thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 593.0,
      "ContributionID": 665746,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 on the agenda concerns the invitations that have been received by the committee. Members will be aware that we have received three invitations. One is from British Energy, inviting us to Torness power station. I appreciate that that would not fit in with our work load and our agreed programme of work. If members agree, I shall keep that invitation on hold, so that, when we begin to consider that subject, we can make that visit. Is the committee agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lynn Tullis (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 599.0,
      "ContributionID": 665749,
      "EditedText": "The document was circulated individually to members some time ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 601.0,
      "ContributionID": 665750,
      "EditedText": "I remember it. We can discuss it later. I am sure that members will have it in their files at home or in the office. We will revisit that issue when it is more appropriate to the committee's work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 604.0,
      "ContributionID": 665751,
      "EditedText": "Item 4 on the agenda is the Scottish utilities forum nomination from the Transport and the Environment Committee. The Scottish Executive is establishing a utilities forum for Scotland to address major utilities issues such as customer service, investment, the environment and growth opportunities. A paper has been circulated to members and the committee has the opportunity to nominate a member of that forum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 618.0,
      "ContributionID": 665758,
      "EditedText": "During private sessions at the beginning of meetings, we must agree a line of questioning with which all members are happy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 620.0,
      "ContributionID": 665759,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we call them informal sessions, rather than private sessions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 636.0,
      "ContributionID": 665767,
      "EditedText": "I would pursue the course of sending witnesses our questions in advance. We want the best answers to our questions—we do not want to catch them out. What would be the point of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25731,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 665456,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:07"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25731,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 665460,
      "EditedText": "Meeting resumed in public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 665464,
      "EditedText": "Looking at the future development of the sector, I know that the universal mobile technology system will be licensed next year. Could you outline some of the anticipated future development trends of the sector, what the nature and the level of the demand is likely to be, and could you also outline the technology that will be needed to meet that demand?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicholas Williams (Department of Trade and Industry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 665466,
      "EditedText": "If I may briefly expand on what was said, from what I have read, it seems that the committee has a general interest in the growth of mobile telecommunications, which has led to the proliferation of masts and base stations. To give an indication of where those developments might lead in the near future, currently the penetration of mobile phones in the UK is 33 per cent. In places such as Scandinavia and Italy, the percentage penetration ranges from the high 40s to the 50s, and is still growing. We expect that, within the next couple of years, the penetration of mobile phones in the UK could be as high as 50 per cent.In terms of the type of usage, we are seeing movement away from using the phone for voice transmission to using it for data transmission. Some figures released by the industry suggest that 98 per cent of all traffic will be data by as early as 2003. Those figures underpin the explosive growth that David mentioned earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 665467,
      "EditedText": "Is it fair to say that third-generation mobile telecommunications technology requires a mast system with more intense emissions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicholas Williams: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 665469,
      "EditedText": "On the technical side, it will operate at a slightly higher gigahertz frequency, so the signal will be able to travel less far. It is therefore possible that we will have more structures. Whether we have a proliferation of sites depends on whether existing sites can be used, but the network will probably have more base stations than the current network, which operates at 900 MHz."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 665470,
      "EditedText": "Is the implication of what you are saying that a higher-powered system will have to be used if data as well as voice are transferred?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicholas Williams: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 665471,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I could say that before the committee; I would need to talk to a radio frequency engineer. I would be happy to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 665473,
      "EditedText": "What are the sector's current obligations under the legislation and licensing arrangements, and what obligations remain to be met?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 665474,
      "EditedText": "In licences granted under the Telecommunications Act 1984, there are conditions on the coverage and/or level of service. The current obligation on the mobile operators is that they should roll out their networks to cover at least 90 per cent of the UK population. That figure has already been well exceeded. The obligation in the proposed licences for third-generation mobile services will be to roll out to cover at least 80 per cent of the population by 2007.If you wish, I can go on to talk about other obligations, but you will probably—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 665478,
      "EditedText": "I believe that to be the case, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 665480,
      "EditedText": "All operators have rolled out their networks to well beyond the 90 per cent level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 665482,
      "EditedText": "We monitor whether they have met their obligation to hit the 90 per cent target. To go beyond that is primarily a commercial decision for the operators, although, under the Telecommunications Act 1984, the secretary of state does have a general duty to secure the provision of telecommunications services to meet a reasonable demand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 665487,
      "EditedText": "Will the health and safety and consumer protection obligations be the same?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicholas Williams: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 665489,
      "EditedText": "Not usefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 665491,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not think that there is. The competitive urge—\"I can sell a mobile phone that will get you coverage anywhere\"—will come in the long term. Currently, we do not have a geographic coverage requirement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 665496,
      "EditedText": "I am aware of the penetration, according to numbers per head in Finland. Are you aware of the geographic penetration of the service that is provided in that country? If it is better than here, why is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 665498,
      "EditedText": "I would be obliged if you found out the geographic penetration in Finland. That would be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 665502,
      "EditedText": "In paragraph 13 of annexe C, in your submission, you state: \"Further elaboration of how the precautionary principle in its widest context can be applied is being developed.\"Can you tell us who is developing that, what the content of the guidance is likely to be and when it is likely to be made publicly available?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD) : ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 665506,
      "EditedText": "When are those discussions likely to come to a conclusion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 665508,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned that the fivefold reduction is an arbitrary figure. Am I correct in saying that that came about as a result of guidelines from the European Community? They would presumably have taken scientific evidence before arriving at their conclusion? Has there been discussion at a European level during which guidance on this matter has been issued to member states?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 665510,
      "EditedText": "Has the European Community in fact issued guidance on this to its member states? That is the same as the guidance to which I was referring."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Patrick McDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 665513,
      "EditedText": "It is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 665516,
      "EditedText": "Are you suggesting that the main issues that you are concerned about are the length of time for planning approvals to be granted and a potential lack of consistency across the board?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 665518,
      "EditedText": "Given that people are elected to local politics to represent local people, would it be a bad thing for local people to have a say in the process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 665519,
      "EditedText": "There is perhaps a slight difference between telecoms developments and other planning issues. There is a balance of local advantages and disadvantages for a lot of planning issues. Because telecoms is a national infrastructure, the balance between local advantages and disadvantages and national advantages and disadvantages may be different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 665520,
      "EditedText": "Why should people need planning permission to build an extension to a house, while there is no necessity for planning permission if a huge telecoms mast is to be built outside someone's front door? Why should not local people have a say in those planning decisions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 665523,
      "EditedText": "In some parts of the country,  even under the permitted development rights, local authorities are being quite difficult about giving prior approval."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 665524,
      "EditedText": "Is there a particular type of case in which that is happening?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 665525,
      "EditedText": "There is no particular pattern. It depends on the characteristics of each local authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 665526,
      "EditedText": "My final question is probably the most crucial. In your submission, you suggest that it would be unhelpful to have a variation in approach across the UK. Can you say why that is a problem? Why should not things be done differently in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 665528,
      "EditedText": "I would like to follow up the point about local authorities being, as you put it, quite difficult. Planning matters do not end with local authorities, do they? If local authorities take arbitrary or perverse decisions, or even decisions that are slightly wrong, the industry has an appeals system. As appeals patterns build up, planners study appeal decisions, report on them to their committees and advise them on the likely outcome of appeals. Is not it the case that the very existence of an appeals procedure means that changes in the planning regime would bed in quite quickly as people got used to the new rules? Could not the industry suffer a few disruptions until everyone was used to the new pattern of working? Is it really such a threat, given that the appeals system acts as a control on difficult councils?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicholas Williams: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 665530,
      "EditedText": "The other consideration that members might want to bear in mind is the Government's commitment to make the UK the best place to do business electronically by 2002. David has alluded to our concern that, if Scotland has what operators perceive as a slower procedure than is found in other parts of the country, they might develop their operations more quickly in other areas. As a result, other areas would see the benefits of this new electronic age, with the competitive advantage that it brings.That raises the question of how operators will perceive their roles in our plans if they feel that implementation might take longer in one area, which might also regulate more than another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 665532,
      "EditedText": "Although coverage is approaching 100 per cent, the increase in demand as more customers get on the network means that we have to split existing cells to allow the larger number of calls on the network. If there is slowdown, although we will maintain the almost 100 per cent coverage, calls will increasingly fail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 665547,
      "EditedText": "We should consider the regulatory framework in comparable European nations, given the penetration in the market. I mentioned Finland. What are its regulations on both planning and thermal measures? Helsinki is a comparable size to Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 665552,
      "EditedText": "The main difference between the two approaches is that, under the prior approval regime, the generic issue of what the planning position might be on those developments has been considered, and guidance and codes of practice have been developed. Therefore, there is a presumption that the operators will be able to go ahead with their development if they comply with the conditions set out in the permitted development rights. With full planning approval, there is no such presumption."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 665553,
      "EditedText": "The timing concerns me. You are saying that the outline for the third set of licences is out now. They are being bid for early next year, but those responsible for your own work on the impact of that arbitrary reduction on the industry are not reporting until spring and the expert committee is not reporting until spring. There seems to be a mismatch in the timing. Will you comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 665554,
      "EditedText": "Although the auction for the third generation of mobile licences will be early next year, the rollout of the networks will not start immediately. That is likely to happen in 2002."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 665555,
      "EditedText": "What effect will the fact that the reports are not happening until the spring have on what is required of operators?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 665556,
      "EditedText": "Any decisions, including those in the report from Sir William Stewart's committee, will be available before the third-generation networks have to be rolled out. In the meantime, the information memorandum that was issued on 1 November sets out fully the current position, including the fact that the Transport and the Environment Committee is considering the position in Scotland and that there have been proposals from the Scottish Executive. The industry knows what the state of play is and can make a judgment about the level of certainty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 665557,
      "EditedText": "I have a question about the telecommunications code. What is the process for and purpose of granting the code powers? In what circumstances do you envisage that such powers would not be granted? The enforcement functions of the director general of telecommunications apply to the conditions and licences related to the application of the code. What are the strategic issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Lumley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 665558,
      "EditedText": "The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry issues licences under the Telecommunications Act 1984, which are enforced by the director general of telecommunications. The decision on code powers depends on a judgment that the person applying for the licence will develop a network that is in the public interest, or something to that effect—I cannot remember the precise wording. It depends also on the secretary of state judging that the granting of code powers is necessary to enable that network to be developed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 665559,
      "EditedText": "Why would powers not be granted? Why would it be considered unnecessary to have the powers? Can you give an example of a time when that has occurred in the past?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 665561,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 665568,
      "EditedText": "I thank you all for coming.We will have a short break, during which time the representatives from the telecommunications companies can come to the table."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 665571,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the witnesses from the industry who have joined us. They are Bob Perkins and Richard Atkins from Cellstructures; Gordon Sleigh from Atlantic Telecom; Roger Wilkins from Vodaphone; and Richard Rumbelow from Orange. We are aware of the importance of the industry from your submissions and those of other organisations. We appreciate your willingness to come here today, and we appreciate your written submissions of evidence.Members of the committee will ask you questions. Perhaps you could indicate to one another who will answer each question—if anyone wants to make supplementary points, by all means do so. I hope that that is a suitable way of carrying out business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 665576,
      "EditedText": "I understand that, instead of using masts, you can disguise your equipment as things such as lamp posts and burglar alarms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Perkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 665577,
      "EditedText": "Lamp posts, chimney pots—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh (Atlantic Telecom Group plc): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 665578,
      "EditedText": "I am in something of a unique position. Atlantic is not a mobile operator, but it uses radio technology to deliver services.On your specific point, we would rather not use masts at all; we much prefer to locate our infrastructure on buildings. In all the major cities in Scotland, we have agreements with the local authorities, and for about 90 per cent of the network we have utilised existing local authority buildings or buildings rented from private landlords. Where we have to use masts, because of the nature of our technology—which is very low powered—the masts have to be located relatively close to the area that we propose to serve. However, there is good news on that as well, as the technology that we operate is moving forward. At the moment, we are running tests on the next generation of technology, which will allow us to remove some of the existing infrastructure and replace it with new technology. In future we expect any masts or structures of that nature to be much smaller than those that we currently use."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 665579,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that in a dense provision area you might be able to remove masts entirely and rely on the smaller pieces of equipment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 665582,
      "EditedText": "I would like to follow on from the question about whether we take masts down. The implication appears to be that we do not, but in fact we do. I will illustrate that. There is a large mast at Winter hill outside Manchester—next to it was one of the first masts that we had in the area. Its coverage extends for miles—wonderful stuff. However, you can imagine that when the 120th conversation was going on, we needed more coverage. Eventually, there were a lot of smaller sites surrounding the original one, which we then took out of service. Our policy is to take the high masts out of service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 665583,
      "EditedText": "Are environmental considerations high up on your planning agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 665587,
      "EditedText": "I would like to answer that question on behalf of Atlantic. We have very few masts, but in every location at which we have one, we identify it as belonging to Atlantic, although we are not required to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 665588,
      "EditedText": "There are two answers to that question. The first answer is from Orange's perspective—we clearly identify all the sites that we operate and include on them contact numbers and addresses if people wish to contact us about those sites. Secondly and more generally, local authorities are encouraged to keep a register of all forms of mast structure. This year, an industry initiative was announced—in conjunction with the company that operates the BBC's infrastructure—to start a national sites database. That will be updated monthly; local authorities will be able to examine and assess it. That database provides all the information about our network infrastructure, including location descriptions, size of mast and so on. That is a way forward that demonstrates our commitment to look for alternative sites to use existing masts and to ensure that people can, through their local councils, see where masts are located."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 665592,
      "EditedText": "So, there is there no obligation on anyone to ensure that folk living near or around a mast are told that there is equipment there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 665593,
      "EditedText": "I would like to look at the regulatory framework and the obligations in it. How far have companies progressed in meeting existing licensing obligations, particularly in terms of coverage? What obligations remain to be met and what is the coverage in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 665594,
      "EditedText": "Orange has met its initial target of 90 per cent population coverage across the United Kingdom. We were to achieve that target by the end of this year—5 years after the start of our operation. Now that we have met that target, our next commitment is to ensure that we meet all reasonable demands for our services across the country. We have to maximise our population coverage and ensure that our geographic coverage is as good as it can be. Our United Kingdom population coverage is currently just over 98 per cent. Our geographic coverage is between 80 per cent and 85 per cent. Those figures reflect the coverage across Scotland as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 665595,
      "EditedText": "Vodafone is probably broadly in line with that. I will get the precise numbers if the committee needs them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 665599,
      "EditedText": "Do you have any particular problems in meeting your targets?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Atkins (Cellstructures International Ltd): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 665604,
      "EditedText": "No—we are not licensed operators."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 665616,
      "EditedText": "What sort of process do you use for network configuration? How much do you involve planning authorities in the early stages?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Perkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 665621,
      "EditedText": "There is another aspect to the matter. Cellstructures is working with a number of local authorities in England in an attempt to reach global agreements with them. We have done so with many local authorities already. Some of our business arises from providing for the network operators' needs, but we also believe that it is possible to work with a local authority to assess its needs and find the best way of meeting those needs, given the local criteria. We try to carry out a balancing act between public protection responsibilities and the need of every local authority to generate income, in this case from public buildings and public open space. We are developing expertise on that and are rolling out a number of seminars for chief executives of local authorities, at which we can explain their potential. We believe that that will be beneficial to the industry and to the local authorities.As the committee knows, local authorities in Scotland have expressed some fears and, as a result, progress is fairly slow. We will be back in Edinburgh towards the end of this month for the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities seminar, in an attempt to address the local authorities' perceptions, but that will be a slow process. Mr MacAskill's overall question can be approached in two ways. Our approach is not simply to try to provide the sites that the operators require at a particular time, but to encourage local authorities to plan their whole area in the longer term. The situation will change over time and, if only the current climate is taken into consideration, the result might be a piecemeal development, which might not be in anyone's interests. We try to take a balanced approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665623",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Perkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 665623,
      "EditedText": "There is a more heightened perception in Scotland at the moment, in particular on the public health aspect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 665627,
      "EditedText": "In planning coverage of a specific area, our first step is to find out whether any existing mast or structure is available to share. Our negotiations on sharing the site might take many a course—with the owner of the mast, the owner of the land where the mast is located, and the local authority. Those three elements are dealt with first. The existing operator might well find our approach acceptable, but the landowner might not. The local authority might consider that some issues connected with sharing the site—such as increasing the height or overall size of the structure—are not acceptable in planning terms. Any one of those three elements could easily fall out of the equation and, if that happens, one is left with little option but to look for a ground-based structure of one's own from which to provide the coverage.Overall, our first commitment is to look for an existing structure or mast, but if that falls through for any reason, we have to look for an alternative solution, which will often be our own ground-based installation. The priority is to look for site sharing first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 665629,
      "EditedText": "From Atlantic's perspective, we adopt pretty much the same criteria as those described by Richard Rumbelow. We always look first of all for an existing piece of infrastructure—a building or a tower. If there is nothing suitable, we are restricted because our technology operates at such a low power level that we have to be in fairly close proximity to the area that we want to serve. Industrial estates would be the next type of area that we would consider. If we have to build, our first choice would be to build there. Absolutely the last choice would be to locate infrastructure close to a residential area. We have two or perhaps three examples of that in the whole of Scotland—that is it. When it comes down to the cost-benefit analysis of such a mast, we do not consider it on a purely economic basis. We examine the site and we landscape it, to try to disguise the mast as much as possible so that it blends in with the landscape. I assure members that that is an expensive business. For example, we are transplanting trees on one site at the moment—we are planting a ring of mature trees round a mast."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 665631,
      "EditedText": "I can give you details of the example that I talked about straight away. That site is in the north of Aberdeen, on a farm at the edge of a residential area. We made an agreement with the landlord who owns the site and the tenant farmer, from whom we secured the rights. Then we consulted the local estates department on how best to landscape the site. We submitted drawings to the estates department on three separate occasions and took on board its comments about what it thought the site should look like. I believe that the final design is now going ahead. The cost to us, for landscaping, will be between £15,000 and £20,000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 665632,
      "EditedText": "It is not true that cost is a massively significant feature of a site. We will pay what it costs to get a site to do what we want. If we have to take extraordinary steps to achieve something that is environmentally superb, that is what we have to do. The cost of renting the site does not represent much of its total cost to us. The choice of whether we go with this landlord or that landlord is down to which landlord is the most willing and not which is the cheapest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Atkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 665633,
      "EditedText": "From our perspective, as an infrastructure provider, site development is our core business. We will not go near any establishment or building. For example, given the public perception of masts, our policy is to keep well away from educational establishments such as schools and from hospitals. As far as possible, we go out of our way to attempt to develop sites in the most physically acceptable locations. We are developing a product that is saleable to the industry, if you like. We are looking at higher capital investment on a site to achieve minimal visual impact, by disguising masts and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 665636,
      "EditedText": "Richard, can you sustain a network based on the philosophy and principles that you have just spoken about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Atkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 665637,
      "EditedText": "It is partially possible. Our colleagues in the Department of Trade and Industry pointed to a number of relevant sites. I would turn round and say that some situations demand that the operators have their own infrastructure. However, there is more mileage in existing developments and in third-generation developments. The number of pieces of infrastructure will certainly rise, but we hope to offer a solution that will, to a certain extent, put a limit on proliferation. However, the operators will justifiably make a case that, under certain circumstances, they need a particular piece of infrastructure to provide a capacity coverage solution in an area. Given their network planning constraints, it might not be possible to use shared infrastructure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 665638,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned hospitals and schools as an example of where you are listening. We can argue to and fro on the environmental and health impacts, but are you listening to what the public are saying? Do you have a perspective on high-rise flats, which are popular sites? The residents of those buildings are also concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Atkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 665639,
      "EditedText": "We are not involved in negotiating on any form of residential property at the moment, within our operational portfolio.With regard to the health and safety arguments, there is nothing conclusive on the effects of radio communications on health. Unfortunately, there is a certain amount of popular misconception and, as a business, we have to be swayed by that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 665641,
      "EditedText": "There is much encouragement to share sites. Is it easier to share if you are at different bands? What percentage of your sites is shared?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 665648,
      "EditedText": "From Atlantic's point of view—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5618885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 665660,
      "EditedText": "Again, because of the power levels on which we operate, I have to differentiate my company from the mobile phone operators. We are comfortable with our technology. Our power levels fall within all known guidelines and well below the prudent avoidance levels as advocated by such organisations as Friends of the Earth, which has investigated levels across Europe, Australia and New Zealand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 665668,
      "EditedText": "At Orange, we are still assessing the implications of moving to the EU recommendation or to full ICNIRP compliance, which will mean assessing the location of the sites that we have. One aspect of meeting either of the two new guidelines will be to examine the exclusion zones that apply to our sites, particularly in locations to which the public have unrestricted access or where we do not have full control over certain types of installations. Exclusion zones are present now and will be required in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 665669,
      "EditedText": "Are there any issues to do with physical protection in sensitive areas, such as schools, hospitals and high-rise flats? Does industry have any views on the matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 665676,
      "EditedText": "There might be locations where it is difficult to disinvent the past, but I got the impression that you would examine your existing pattern of installations and review those instances where what is in place would not meet the planning criteria that you now consider appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 665678,
      "EditedText": "I am still slightly confused about the nature of the question—I am not being rude. If you are suggesting that a precautionary principle could be introduced with an arbitrary figure of hundreds of metres, that would have a significant effect on our activity. However, if we are talking about the kind of exclusion zones that arise from the proposed legislation—a few metres or tens of metres at most—there is not an issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 665680,
      "EditedText": "Because one would be that much further away from the customers one is trying to reach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 665683,
      "EditedText": "Principally, what would happen is that large areas of city centres would not have any coverage at all, as one could not use existing structures of any description to locate stations. There is a misconception that we are able to provide coverage from a base station on the periphery of a city: it does not work in that way. We need base stations in the heart of cities to provide coverage. A precautionary principle that introduced a limit above 100 m or so—even 50 m—would mean that a lot of people would be unable to use mobile phones in city centres."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 665687,
      "EditedText": "It is typically the size of a burglar alarm. It can be located on the side of buildings. It can be disguised as streetlight furniture or located on top of existing streetlights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Atkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 665688,
      "EditedText": "I would add the rider that, although microcells certainly represent part of the solution, the important issue for us is that the industry is dynamic. Subscriber numbers are rising. Therefore, at some stage further down the line, there will arguably be a need for additional capacity. A larger cell may become desirable to obviate the number of small boxes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 665694,
      "EditedText": "The DTI evidence earlier brought out the likelihood that, as the cells were split and demand increased, many more masts would be needed and your business would have to develop. How will the pace of that development be affected in practice by the move to prior approval and, beyond that, by the suggested move to full planning controls? How will that affect the future of your industry, your market and your consumers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 665695,
      "EditedText": "To answer your first point, permitted development has been an essential element of the ability of UK networks to roll out in the time that we have done. The reason it has been essential is, first, to allow us to meet the obligations in our licence to fulfil the initial coverage objectives that were set and, secondly, to allow us to provide coverage for the expanding market of customers.Orange alone has probably spent in the region of £1.5 billion on the network. That figure has, I am sure, been replicated by the other three networks. Providing a network is a serious financial business; it is the core of what we do. There needs to be some process by which the development of the network can meet the coverage expectations of customers. We would not have been able to meet that 90 per cent minimum coverage figure without permitted development rights, and prior approval as part of that, being an integral part of the planning system in which we work.We have said—and this was our response to this committee and to the Scottish Office in the original consultations on this issue—that we are more than happy to work, in Scotland, within the prior approval process that is now in place in England and Wales. That process gives the certainty of greater public involvement in consultation than there is at present, and it gives local authorities 42 days to consider an application, in terms of both planning consideration and public consultation. It also keeps the important premise of permitted development. As the DTI outlined earlier, the licensing of third-generation systems is now underway. Networks for that will not be rolled out until 2002 at the earliest. If we are to meet the coverage figure of 80 per cent—sorry, if the licensees are to meet the coverage figure—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 665696,
      "EditedText": "Come on. Surely the future is bright. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 665700,
      "EditedText": "In following on from that answer, if full planning control were to be introduced it would slow development down and companies would have to live with that, but how significant an additional burden would that be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 665701,
      "EditedText": "Undoubtedly it would be an additional burden, but at the end of the day how significant that would be would depend on the guidelines that were issued by bodies such as the Scottish Parliament to local authorities, and on how those guidelines were interpreted by local authorities.One of the problems that we have faced over the past year or year and a half is that there have been various sets of guidelines relating to what planning officials and planning committees should or should not do. That is true particularly in relation to health and safety concerns. Interpretation has been different from authority to authority. What is required is a clear set of guidelines that we, as operators of both fixed and mobile phones, can understand and can operate within. It is also important that planning authorities in local authorities can understand them and operate within them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 665702,
      "EditedText": "Would anyone like to come in on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 665703,
      "EditedText": "I would like to defer to my colleague in the public gallery, if it is possible for him to answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 665704,
      "EditedText": "He will need to join you at the table.If you use a microphone, that will allow you to become part of the process. Please give us your name."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 665706,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that planning authorities would accept to a degree that they are deficient in skills and expertise in areas in which they do not currently have to regulate. I am sure that it is equally true that, if they were charged with regulation of the development of the industry on a full planning basis, they would gear themselves up to do it. They would do as good a job in that field as they do in any other.I am trying to establish what it would mean for your companies and your consumers. You say that it would make things more difficult for the planning authorities, but they could live with that; many of them seem to want controls. I want to know what difference it would make to the overall delivery of the service. How would it affect your businesses? Would it disadvantage them, and would it disadvantage your consumers? You said that it would slow things down. What does that mean?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 665713,
      "EditedText": "Ninety-five percentage coverage of what, sorry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 665714,
      "EditedText": "All A and B roads in the Highlands and Islands Enterprise zone. It was assumed that the population would live along those roads, and that they would therefore enjoy that coverage. I do not have a problem with that kind of definition, but I would have a problem with the definition of complete acreage coverage, which strikes me as tricky and expensive to do with not much return.The Office of Telecommunications is doing a comparative trial of four networks across the country. Such trials can be organised on a \"go anywhere\" basis as opposed to along prescribed routes. It is perfectly feasible to do that and measure the effectiveness of a company's coverage by specific trials. People make calls anywhere they want. We do not say to them, \"Here's our coverage map. You can only use our phones here.\" We say to them, \"Here's a phone. Go anywhere you want to with it.\" Every time that they fail to make a call, it clocks up against us. By that, we can measure ourselves against our competitors, and the pressure to drive the business forward is competition-driven."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 665718,
      "EditedText": "If we agreed that in Scotland full planning controls were not necessary, and instead decided to beef up the prior approval system so that local authorities had a statutory right to take action against you if you did not comply with what they laid down in the approval, would you have a problem with that?I see that you would not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Greer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 665719,
      "EditedText": "May I add to that? I do not think that it came out of the discussion earlier, but local authorities have the right to take enforcement action, so that if an operator puts in infrastructure which, in the opinion of the local authority, does not comply with the conditions or the site appearance criteria—that is, minimising the visual impact as much as possible—the local authority has the option to take enforcement action against the operator."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Greer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 665725,
      "EditedText": "Are you asking why we cannot have lots of microcells every 200 m along the road, as opposed to some large masts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Rumbelow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 665730,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the first part of what Mr Tosh said but disagree with the second part. He is right to say that the consensus in the industry is that we would like Scotland to move in line with the procedures in England and Wales. That does not lessen the role of the local authority as the arbiter of planning issues. The prior approval process requires us, as an operator, to demonstrate the need for a new development—we must show why an additional site is needed and why the benefits of mast sharing may not be relevant. We must go through a number of sequential tests in support of a permitted development application before the local authority can determine it. That is not a rubber-stamp exercise. There is public consultation and an extended period of notification, which means that, through the prior approval process, local authorities have better control over permitted development than they have had for some time. We are happy to go through those hoops to demonstrate the need for a mast. It is incorrect to suggest that the local authority's role is that of a rubber-stamp agency—it is right that local authorities should exercise control in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nick Greer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 665731,
      "EditedText": "Contrary to Mr Tosh's suggestion, we would encourage local authorities to play a more active role, which we believe is long overdue. If we were intransigent, we would be adopting a short-term approach. We are not here just for a year; we are going to be here in five or 10 years time, so it is incumbent on us to build a long-term relationship with each local planning authority. That is why we have been trying, since 1994-95, to encourage every local authority to meet us and have pre-application discussions. It is extremely difficult to get the time and attention of local authorities, because of their work load. I am defending the local planning offices in this scenario. We can ask them to come to a meeting, but we cannot make the meeting happen. We would encourage them to become more involved with the telecom operators."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Perkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ContributionID": 665734,
      "EditedText": "That is not a matter for Cellstructures, convener; at this stage, it is a matter for the usual operators. We are the new kids on the block."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Sleigh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ContributionID": 665735,
      "EditedText": "In terms of existing infrastructure, and of examining it retrospectively, our licence obligations require us to provide coverage to individuals who reasonably request it. Once that service is in place, we are required to continue to provide it. It would be almost impossible for a fixed operator if that retrospective examination of the infrastructure required the infrastructure to be moved in some way—I think that we discussed that issue earlier. We have worked closely with local authorities, and with the planning and estates people in particular, on our existing locations and on how we can disguise and landscape sites to make them environmentally acceptable. We are happy to talk to people and to consider whether further improvements can be made to the sites. For the fixed operator, relocating sites would be difficult, if not impossible, to achieve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 25732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 665741,
      "EditedText": "We have mentioned the rate of technological development and the operational implications that it might have for local government and national Government. How can we maintain effective communication about the changes and about their implications for the process of regulation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Wilkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 665742,
      "EditedText": "There should be on-going dialogue, but perhaps it could be arranged more informally than at a committee meeting such as this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 595.0,
      "ContributionID": 665747,
      "EditedText": "Fenwick Community Council has asked to meet the committee. Bearing in mind the nature of the announcements that may be made tomorrow, it may be wise to keep that suggestion on hold as well. Is the committee agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ID": 25733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 597.0,
      "ContributionID": 665748,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Forum for Transport and the Environment wants to meet the committee to discuss its document \"Transport Policy Options for a Sustainable Scotland: 2000-2002\". We note the invitation, and that document has been circulated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 608.0,
      "ContributionID": 665753,
      "EditedText": "I second that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ContributionID": 665754,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. I would be happy to take on that responsibility.That nearly completes our business. We have laid out a work programme for our inquiry and we know what is to be discussed at the next meeting. Do we know the time of that meeting? Will it be 9 o'clock again?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 614.0,
      "ContributionID": 665756,
      "EditedText": "What must I propose?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25734,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lynn Tullis: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 624.0,
      "ContributionID": 665761,
      "EditedText": "The committee is developing. The guidance will state that, before meetings at which evidence is to be considered, the committee could meet formally in private. That is why we have followed that route. I suggest that we do that, unless we receive further guidance from the clerks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 626.0,
      "ContributionID": 665762,
      "EditedText": "To avoid doubt, we should make it clear that the meeting is to go into private session following the legal advice that we have received."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 638.0,
      "ContributionID": 665768,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, Robin, we let them know what the scope of the questions would be. They would have expected all the questions we asked them today. In the private session, we are more involved in sorting out the question structures.The clerk and I will consider further the rules that govern the process. We need to organise ourselves prior to witnesses coming along."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 640.0,
      "ContributionID": 665769,
      "EditedText": "We should have a time scale for that. If we took only 10 or 15 minutes, it would not look like we were meeting in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 642.0,
      "ContributionID": 665770,
      "EditedText": "I have one more question. Now that we have all the details, could we send questions to Lynn Tullis, the clerk, in advance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ID": 25734,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 644.0,
      "ContributionID": 665771,
      "EditedText": "There would be no problem with that, if you think that certain areas should be addressed. Lynn suggests that we could meet for 15 minutes before opening the meeting at 9.30, to allow us time for housekeeping. Would that be acceptable?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25734,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 646.0,
      "ContributionID": 665772,
      "EditedText": "I thank members for their hard work this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3966
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Utilities Forum",
      "HeadingID": 25734,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25734,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 648.0,
      "ContributionID": 665773,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:25."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5775085+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 604111,
      "EditedText": "You paint a picture of Scotland's youth being wasted and forgotten. You acknowledge that poverty and unemployment are the key issues affecting young people. I am concerned when you say that the paucity of resources might make you prioritise homelessness, drugs and offending, as that exposes the gap between our aims and the reality of Government policy.Furthermore, are you in danger of losing the gender analysis if the three areas of homelessness, drugs and offending are prioritised? On the issue of drugs in particular, do you think that the Executive's emphasis on a drugs enforcement agency might lose Scotland's young people? Is that an inappropriate emphasis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:13.4086808+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 604218,
      "EditedText": "Can we talk practicalities? From what we have heard, the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will have two evidence sessions and then will have a meeting to put together its report. So far, on our timetable, we have the same number of meetings. We would start to take evidence on Wednesday 17 November—it is interesting to note that that meeting will probably take place at the same time as when the Justice and Home Affairs Committee is hearing its first evidence. That committee will also meet on 1 December. If we think that two evidence sessions of three hours' duration will be enough to allow us to do justice to the bill, all we need to do to pull the timetable back in line is to swap sessions, with John McAllion's co-operation. If we swap the session on 8 December, which is meant to be an examination of housing stock transfer, with that of 15 December, which was originally the third session on the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill, we can discuss and agree the final report on 8 December. From what I have heard, that will allow us to progress in tandem with the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:13.4086808+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 604224,
      "EditedText": "How many sessions do you think that we will need?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:13.4086808+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 604071,
      "EditedText": "I said at the previous meeting that we recognise that there are five action teams. I am pleased to see members of the action teams here today. We will consider only two of the groups' reports, one of which deals with local action to tackle poverty. As we are also considering a national strategy, we will be particularly interested in the report that deals with the evaluation framework. I thank the clerk for getting a copy of the progress report to me last night. We have some full-colour published documents and one that is a progress report. I understand from the Scottish social inclusion network minutes that the progress report on the evaluation framework is still open. David Belfall invited network members to write with suggestions. The evaluation document is about how poverty and the Executive's progress on poverty can be measured. The committee must have full information on that.I ask the convenor to clarify when the report will be published and given the same status as the other glossy documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1814562+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18294,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18294,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 604049,
      "EditedText": "I formally open this meeting of the committee by welcoming all committee members. Now that we are meeting so regularly, we are getting to know each other quite well. I also welcome members of the public who have joined us. Finally, I welcome the members of the action teams. I hope that they will bear with us, as we have a few other items of business to deal with before we hear their presentations.Before I move to the first item on the agenda, I want to raise one emergency issue—our accommodation. Although some people present might be impressed with the chamber, the committee feels that it is inappropriate for a committee meeting, and particularly for detailed questioning of witnesses. As we have made that view clear to the committee of conveners and to the Parliamentary Bureau, I am quite annoyed that we have been put here again. When I raised the point at yesterday's meeting of the committee of conveners, I was told that other committees like the chamber. As those other committees are in the committee rooms and we are in the chamber, perhaps the issue could be easily resolved by some organisation. The issue of accommodation in the Parliament has to be addressed urgently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18294,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18294,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 604050,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the convener. The committee has been moved about from place to place. It is noticeable that there is only one person in the press gallery. We should tell the clerks and the committee of conveners that, as we have booked committee room 1 every fortnight until Christmas, that is where we are going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 604055,
      "EditedText": "With regard to that and to Martin's briefing paper on the remit of reporters, I am unaware what remit we have given John and the other reporters who have been appointed. Before we proceed, we need, as Martin pointed out, to define clearly the remit of each reporter and to agree the time of their appointment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 604056,
      "EditedText": "I support what Lloyd said. We must act more formally. Things are happening—we are finding out that people have been appointed reporters or have been made responsible for different areas—and the rules must be defined. We must know who appointed the reporters and when, and that must be ratified by the committee. I am sure that the committee will agree to the appointments, but we need to be organised and to know what is happening.While I am speaking, I want to make one further point—to save my having to press my request button again. I am increasingly concerned about the committee's work load. I am on two committees, and have spoken to other members of this committee who share my concern. The problems of accommodation might be due partly to the fact that committees were originally intended to meet once a fortnight, rather than twice a week, as we have done on occasion. I am not averse to a big work load. However, I am concerned that I am coming to this committee without having had enough time to go through the considerable amount of documentation that arrived in my in-tray on Monday morning, as I spent most of yesterday in the Finance Committee and other meetings. That is unfair. I was up until 2 o'clock—I am pulling on everyone's heart-strings—going through this material, because I think that it is only fair to those who have taken the trouble to come to give oral evidence to us today.We will not be disbanded at Christmas—we are not on probation, and the Parliament is not going to disappear suddenly. Quite frankly, there is a danger that if we take on too much and try to do too much too quickly, we will end up doing none of it well. That will not redound to the credit of this committee. It is important that our first report should be a substantial, solid piece of work, not something that is put together hastily."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 604057,
      "EditedText": "I strongly endorse those views. So that we can proceed with today's business, I refer Lloyd Quinan to item 3 on our agenda, when we will discuss the role of the reporters. Perhaps we can revisit the issue of Scottish Homes then, because we need to ensure that it is dealt with. We will return to the point about work load under item 5."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 604059,
      "EditedText": "I was assuming that that would happen. It is the clerk's job to pursue that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604060",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 604060,
      "EditedText": "Scottish Homes was on the phone this morning and will be sending the reports to me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604061",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3354
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 604061,
      "EditedText": "Were you told when?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 604062,
      "EditedText": "No. Obviously, Scottish Homes had anticipated the questions that might be asked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 604064,
      "EditedText": "There should be a mechanism for keeping a note of such matters—perhaps at the end of the agenda—so that we do not lose track of them. As the committee develops, there will be quite a few outstanding bits and pieces, which will be easy to forget about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 604066,
      "EditedText": "I have written letters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 604079,
      "EditedText": "I recommend that we return to our discussion about how we should deal with the action team reports at the end of the presentation. Alex, you should raise that point again then.I always seem to be cast in the role of the one who rushes things forward and pushes things on. We agreed our programme of work on housing matters. We will return to the issue of the timetable. We are beginning to move the drugs inquiry forward, and the programmes for that are starting to be established. SPICe will circulate them to members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604081",
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      "ID": 3354
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 604081,
      "EditedText": "Keith Raffan and I have been trying to meet. If other members of the committee want to join us, we can start pursuing that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 604084,
      "EditedText": "At the committee of conveners last night, I pre-empted this discussion slightly by putting in a bid for the committee to travel in relation to the drugs inquiry. I imagine that we will also travel in relation to housing. Our bids will be expected quite shortly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604086",
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      "ID": 3354
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 604086,
      "EditedText": "We must work on that quickly. Keith and I will pursue the issue of travel for the drugs inquiry in the first instance. Fiona can speak to John McAllion about housing. We have arranged seminars."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604087",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 604087,
      "EditedText": "Will they be held in Edinburgh?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604093",
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    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Joy Barlow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 604093,
      "EditedText": "What a surprise. I will try to answer those questions.On strategic responses, convener, you will see in the report our suggestion that youth services should come together at local level under the umbrella of a youth partnership, if you like. In fact, I will use the word partnership, as I know that our colleagues in the making it happen team are saying important things about partnership. I accept your point, but I still think that while one could have local meetings, local partnership and local responses, a strategic youth inclusion programme for Scotland is also required. I expect that perhaps I was looking at the issue from the point of view of strategic developments in the area of drug misuse, for example. We have a national strategy that we hope will be devolved to and examined at local level. We accepted that there will be local responses—and rightly so. One problem was that a lot of good work was going on at local level, with individual youth workers talking to each other, but no one took responsibility locally for what happened. Rozanne Foyer will agree with that, as she visited some of the projects. That is why we recommended that senior local authority officials should take some responsibility and be accountable.On the question of unique gender issues, we admit that in only very few places did we see many young women. Where we did see young women, it became obvious that they had unique issues. Rozanne went to Cornton Vale and examined closely the issues for young women in the remand wing. We believe that gender, disability, sexual orientation and ethnic minority background should come into all our deliberations, so they are threads that run through the recommendations. Therefore, I could not agree with you more—there is a good deal of work to be done specifically with young women and that should be examined both at the local level and within organisations. It seems to me that there is a need for the youth advocacy function as, in a lot of projects, young women do not get the assistance with advocacy that, perhaps, some young men do. Regarding resource implications—wow, that is a good question. I think the view was that there would not be much new money. I hope that what we recommended is not a wish list for millions of pounds. Our priorities should be at the hard end of social exclusion in terms of homelessness, offending and drug misuse."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604094",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 604094,
      "EditedText": "Can we move on, as I am conscious that other members wish to get in."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604096",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 604096,
      "EditedText": "Keith, will you ask all your questions now as that will speed us up a bit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Joy Barlow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 604098,
      "EditedText": "I will try to answer the first question. Rozanne Foyer will, I hope, answer the others.We discovered that it is currently impossible to determine how resources could be shifted to share best practice. Extremely good work that no one knows anything about is being done. We have suggested a coming together at national level of local partnerships, including service providers and other organisations, to share and examine best practice and to monitor evaluation.We also discovered that we do not really know about good practice, apart from through anecdotal evidence and in terms of internal reviews of projects. There are no centrally held data about what works and what does not. I hope that a national strategic body would assist with that.We did not look much further than our own shores. David Coulter from Scottish Enterprise raised some questions about mentoring and about the situation in the States, where he has visited."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 604100,
      "EditedText": "What about drugs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 604105,
      "EditedText": "The report contains a lot of useful information and it is helpful to bring the whole issue of youth inclusion into perspective in one report. If I may say so, the report falls down in three areas.The first concerns funding and resources. As you said, dealing with this problem is a high moral priority. We will not deal with it unless substantial additional resources are made available. Nowhere in the recommendations do you state the obvious—the need for more resources, the need for better use of resources and the need to get rid of the competitive element in the allocation of resources. Without those hard-edged recommendations, the report just seems to be motherhood and apple pie. If you follow up your own analysis, the conclusion that you must reach is that resources have to be made available to tackle these deep-rooted problems. Your action team, which is, after all, called an action team, should have made that recommendation.Secondly, I find it incredible that jobs and employment opportunities for young people are barely mentioned in the report. The underlying cause of many problems is the lack of job and employment opportunities, not only for young people, but for their families, who have lived in communities with high levels of unemployment for two or three generations. A policy to guarantee jobs and employment opportunities for young people must be at the core of any strategy that will be a prevention rather than a cure.Thirdly, on benefits, you are specific. On page 19 of your report you rightly state that \"benefit levels remain low\" and that young people regard the benefit system as \"unapproachable and unsympathetic\"—and you rightly recommend a major review of the benefits system. We need to hear what you want that review to do. One of the major issues over the past 10 years has been the gradual elimination of benefit entitlement for young people. There is ample evidence to prove that one of the main reasons so many young people are being forced into cardboard city, prostitution and drugs is that they cannot get a job or benefit. To be honest, your report could have a harder edge on those issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 604115,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. If there are questions—Interruption. I did not see you indicate that you wanted to speak, Lloyd. We will come back to questions later. I have to manage the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 604119,
      "EditedText": "Can I interrupt? Perhaps we could explore the recommendations in the questions, as I think that members have seen them and are getting anxious to move on to questions. Is that okay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 604121,
      "EditedText": "After you have concluded briefly, we will go to questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 604122,
      "EditedText": "I will not say any more about the recommendations. We hope that the Executive will adopt some of them. We have also set out a list of people who need to take action. In that list I want to highlight the private sector. We feel that the private sector could do good work. That is not to say that it is not doing good work, but we think it could do much more and should be a full partner in this. It is partly about the provision of financial services, but it is also about goods and services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 604123,
      "EditedText": "I am terribly sorry to have rushed you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 604127,
      "EditedText": "There is more detail about credit unions in the back of the document. Paul Zealey might be able to provide some information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 604129,
      "EditedText": "Our recommendation for the establishment of a social economic fund also links with the points about credit unions as it would provide a pan-Scotland resource."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 604131,
      "EditedText": "You are right to say that we do not make many specific references to the SIPs, although we have recommended the benefit flexibility pilot project in the SIPs areas. As I said, we were aware that we were not starting with a blank sheet of paper and we did not want to go over ground that had already been covered. We were more interested in trying to identify gaps.You are right in saying that the SIPs will yield a lot of useful information about how to make that kind of action work. That ties in with our recommendations on supporting networking and dissemination of best practice. We do not spell out in great detail how that should happen, but it is about ensuring that those structures and organisations that are already in place are connected up. When we were doing the exercise, we felt that we had networked with a lot of people and groups and that we needed to keep that dialogue going so that people were aware of what is being done elsewhere, what works and what does not. References to SIPs may not be littered throughout the document, but that is not to say that they were not at the back of our minds when we were writing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 604133,
      "EditedText": "A very brief one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 604134,
      "EditedText": "It is about benchmarking and monitoring, which is an important aspect of tackling the problem. One of the most important issues is the question of setting targets and measuring against them the effectiveness of the programmes. This is not really a question, but I just want to say that the points on benchmarking and monitoring are apt because the debate is now moving on, based on what the Minister for Communities said earlier this week. The report is helpful and will complement that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 604140,
      "EditedText": "Would it help simply to name and shame the Benefits Agency?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Zealey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 604141,
      "EditedText": "The report of the sub-group on preparation for, finding and sustaining work says explicitly:\"Our remit does not extend to making recommendations about welfare benefits but their role in successful or unsuccessful action cannot be overstated.\"Time and again, the impact of benefits came out as the most significant factor. There is some good work, as Gill said, and there have been examples of Benefits Agency staff being very helpful when, for example, they have been empowered in maximising whole household income in workless households. Such local flexibility is crucial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 604144,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that that debate will go on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 604146,
      "EditedText": "That issue will definitely be explored in future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 604151,
      "EditedText": "That would be a good idea. We will introduce it at our next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Zealey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 604155,
      "EditedText": "The principal focus of the academic research was mainland UK, not Northern Ireland, but there were some links in terms of projects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 604156,
      "EditedText": "The sub-groups produced reports on the four areas. Were there any recommendations on the assessment criteria?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 604157,
      "EditedText": "Recommendations are woven into the body of my group's report. The final two recommendations about appropriate monitoring and evaluation point out that, sometimes, fragile projects have to bear a heavy burden in terms of the information that they are supposed to give about how they are doing. The burden needs to be spread more evenly.We need practical tools that will gauge what effect the activities are having on social budgets. We need harder measures than we have had in the past. Some of the evaluation has been useful, but some of the measures have been quite soft. People need simple tools that will tell them whether what they are doing is working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 604158,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the definition of \"local\". Were the local initiatives that you considered developed under the Robson indices of locality?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 604159,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there was much debate about how we would define the word."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 604161,
      "EditedText": "I mention the issue because a national poverty strategy in Scotland could be thought of as being local to Scotland within a UK context. That would allow us to deal with issues that are reserved. Do you have an opinion on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 604163,
      "EditedText": "When we talked about local, we meant very local."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 604168,
      "EditedText": "The whole thing is very difficult for a convener. These committees are experimental and convening them is a new task. Keith Raffan's experience in Westminster is useful and I confess that I share some of his concerns. Like Lloyd Quinan, I did not get a chance to ask questions earlier and I think that our proceedings must be more structured. Two things have crossed my mind. The first is whether there is any advantage, before the start of the meeting, in identifying those issues in the report on which we want to home in and the person who has the responsibility for asking questions on them. We must stick to a subject-based approach so that we can exhaust the issues. Many interesting themes have been left hanging as loose ends without our having been able to get at the specifics. Second—this is a semi-housekeeping issue—I wondered whether there was any value in having a member of the committee act as a rapporteur at each evidence session. Their job would be to do what you are doing, convener—to draw out the conclusions and to lead the discussion on the report. They would not be bothered by having to chair the meeting, but could sit at the side and not ask questions. They could then draw the questions and answers together at the end in terms of the issues that we want to take forward. That method has been used by commission-style organisations and I think that it would have some value for this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 604173,
      "EditedText": "Those are the ministers who are taking the decisions. Unfortunately, we cannot take the decisions here. We would take very different decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 604175,
      "EditedText": "We should invite the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Secretary of State for Social Security to justify to this committee their benefits policy and its impact on poverty and social inclusion in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 604176,
      "EditedText": "There are huge issues about benefits that we must debate—there are various ways to address them—but I will refer them to the sub-group. If we deem it appropriate to invite members of the British Government, as well as members of the Scottish Government, we will do that, but we should have a proper debate on the issue and put it in context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 604178,
      "EditedText": "That is why our work is getting so difficult: as soon as we decide something, we change the agenda, and that is why the agenda is so difficult to manage. We should refer the matter to the social inclusion sub-group so that it can report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 604179,
      "EditedText": "I want to re-emphasise the points that you made. Everyone is complaining that we do not have enough time to deal with the people who are coming before us, but what is the solution? It seems to be to invite more people to give evidence, and to extend the work programme. We are already dealing with drugs, stock transfers and a national anti-poverty strategy: now we want the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Secretary of State for Social Security to come before us. Why are we not inviting the Prime Minister to come up here every week so that we can hold him to account for the way that he carries on? We should sort this matter out in private session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 604180,
      "EditedText": "I enjoyed this morning's presentations because we did not get the papers until Monday and, as Keith said, our full schedules make it difficult to examine the details of submissions. I want to address the details and understand the issues that affect poverty, in order to empower people. The presentations referred to empowering people, to get them out of the cycle of exclusion. I want this committee to get into the details of documents and understand the issues better, before we hear evidence. We do not have enough knowledge to bring people in and question them on the real causes of poverty. Let us educate ourselves and study the detail of the documents. Margaret, I agree with your recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 604182,
      "EditedText": "We will now address item 3 on the agenda, which concerns the remit of reporters. Lloyd Quinan raised a pertinent matter earlier in the meeting. I think that it was in reference to time scales."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 604184,
      "EditedText": "Oh dear. In light of our previous decisions that would make life quite difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 604186,
      "EditedText": "We have to decide that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 604188,
      "EditedText": "I am confused if people do not know who the reporters are. John McAllion has been doing a report for the past couple of months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 604189,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I knew that he was."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 604191,
      "EditedText": "It is not in the minutes. It is not down here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 604199,
      "EditedText": "We can clear all this up if we have a written remit for the sub-groups and reporters. That would fix it. That is what was asked for last week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 604204,
      "EditedText": "It would be likely that that would be timed according to what was happening in each particular subject area. If there were urgent housing issues, we would try to time the hearing of a report appropriately around that.I ask for members' forbearance in some matters. Do members have any other issues to raise regarding the paper on reporters, which might inform next week's discussion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 604207,
      "EditedText": "Under our original time scale, we were supposed to report by December. My understanding was that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee hoped to conclude its work—evidence and so on—by mid-December and to report early in the new year. The timetable for the bill has been slipping. From day one, I have detected the hidden hand of the Executive in that. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which has an even heavier work load than we do, will probably conclude its work on the bill before we conclude ours. The difference between the bill and the other work that our committee is doing is that the bill will become something tangible—people will be able to say that the Scottish Parliament has done something of benefit for the people, which has not been the case in the past six months. As far as I am concerned, the bill is a top priority and we should give it the billing that it deserves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 604219,
      "EditedText": "This is a bizarre discussion. Earlier, members were saying, \"Oh my God—we can't do this; we can't do that.\" Now, they are saying, \"Yes, we can.\" I wish to make one or two points on which I want us to be clear. I do not want to be put into a corner. As members know, I am sympathetic to Tommy Sheridan's bill; given my constituency, I am hugely keen to assist it. If we take our time to hear proper evidence from a range of organisations, we will do our job properly. I resent being put into this corner, because I suggested at the Parliamentary Bureau that we could stray a couple of weeks into January so that we could hear more evidence. Is that undermining the bill? I want to be clear that that is not undermining the progress of the legislation at all. It is about doing our job properly. It will be impossible for the committee to do its work if we make a decision and then overturn it when we reach the next item on the agenda. I am going to have to start being firm with people. We have agreed a housing agenda, but we keep changing it. May I remind the committee that, during November, in one week we will be meeting for a full day and a half, and that it will be the same the following week? I do not know what other commitments members have, but we are getting to an absurd point where we cannot manage the work load. With due respect to Tommy—who is keen to see the bill through, as am I—I honestly do not see the difference that a couple of weeks or three weeks will make."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 604226,
      "EditedText": "It is interesting that we are being told that we can swap meetings round, as we have been over the issue of timetabling repeatedly and have repeatedly been told that, because housing stock transfers are high up on the political agenda, the matter must be considered straight away by the committee. We cannot put it off, because there is a pressing political imperative.The bill is important and, like the convener, I support it and want it to make legislative progress. However, it is a complex bill and the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee would be failing in its responsibility if it did not consider the impact that it will have on society and on poor communities, which many of us represent. We, as a, committee have a responsibility to consider how they will be affected if warrant sales are abolished. How will those people, who are already on low incomes, access credit? We need to listen to those arguments and to consider those issues. Like Margaret, I think that that will take time and that two evidence sessions will not be enough. We have a responsibility to poor communities in Scotland to get the legislation right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 604232,
      "EditedText": "I am talking about the organisations that we want to hear from. The committee has already decided to investigate warrant sales in the context of debt and credit. Keith, were you going to say something?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 604234,
      "EditedText": "Hurry up, Tommy, because we are running out of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C604237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 604237,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. I do not think that such a remark is particularly helpful.Furthermore, I ask you to bear it in mind that this is only stage 1 of the bill. We still have a detailed, line-by-line consideration of the bill to go through."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 604238,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. I know that well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 604239,
      "EditedText": "I tend to agree with Alex Neil. We spend too much time discussing our work programme instead of getting on with it. We could meet at 9.45 am or at 10 am. I support Robert Brown's point about grouping questions before every evidence session, including those for Tommy's bill. We should go into the session no later than 10.30 am and continue to 12.30 pm or 1 pm. A decent length for evidence sessions will allow us to take two or three sessions of oral evidence in two and a half hours. We will get a lot more done that way. However, we have to change our working practices, not the programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 604243,
      "EditedText": "Okay, Alex."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 604246,
      "EditedText": "I will have to make a report to the Parliamentary Bureau on this matter. I have gone out of my way in this committee to be co-operative and to ensure that other people's agendas are taken into account. I have genuinely tried not to pursue my own agenda. Given all the representations that I received from every committee member about changing the work load, and having trawled through the Official Report, I thought that I had come to the committee with an extremely reasonable suggestion. All we are talking about is two weeks in January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 604247,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order, convener. The committee takes the view, not the convener. You have proposed a motion to the committee; I have proposed an amendment; John McAllion has suggested a compromise. I have said that I am prepared to accept a compromise; you are not prepared to do so. In that case, the committee should vote on your motion and my amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18298,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 604248,
      "EditedText": "I am quite happy to go along with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 604249,
      "EditedText": "Does John want to push his compromise to a formal proposal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 604250,
      "EditedText": "If Alex wants to press his amendment formally, he can do so. He will lose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 604254,
      "EditedText": "No, Tommy. We had timetabled up to December for this issue. I am requesting that the committee give itself extra time in January to hear further evidence if that is necessary. Alex has suggested that we do not need that time and that we should conclude our deliberations in December. That is the vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 604257,
      "EditedText": "The question is, that we conclude our hearings on the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill by December in order to give our recommendations to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. Can I see all those in favour?  There are three.The question is, that the committee gives itself extra time in January to hear all the evidence. Can I see all those in favour?  There are eight.Therefore, the committee will give itself the extra time in January.We are over our time. I will liaise with the conveners of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the Local Government Committee to achieve a balance in the organisations that have made submissions. I will circulate a list of those organisations. Committee members should give their views to Martin Verity and to me about the evidence that we should hear. Although we will proceed with our timetable, we will switch housing and consideration of the bill to facilitate speedy progress of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 604169,
      "EditedText": "We must be focused about what we are doing. This committee has two roles. One is the job that we have given ourselves to examine the proposals for a national anti-poverty strategy in Scotland. It is the job of members of the sub-group to take this information away and use it.Secondly, we must remember that our job is to scrutinise the Executive. We must use all five reports, the four glossy reports and the progress report—if it is a final document—to scrutinise the Executive's social inclusion strategy when it produces it. I think that it will do so towards the end of this year or at the beginning of next year.We must divide our work between those two elements. Members who are examining the national anti-poverty strategy must consider the evidence in those reports. We must use those reports as reference points when we examine the social inclusion strategy. That is why it is essential to have the fifth report, as we have to know what we are judging and scrutinising—are we scrutinising the final version of the report of the evaluation action team? We must use all five reports to scrutinise the Executive's strategy. We also have the opportunity to examine some of the excellent ideas in those reports and to build them into the national anti-poverty strategy, which is the priority for this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:13.4086808+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 604177,
      "EditedText": "I would like to back up what Alex said. John McAllion said at a previous meeting that housing and housing benefit are major issues and that it may be possible to combine issues that cross portfolios, such as housing and social inclusion. That might be a way of managing our time effectively. There is a key interaction between those issues and it is important that we have a dialogue, especially if there is to be a review of benefits for young people. If that is the case, we have a duty and a responsibility to take evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:13.4086808+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 604083,
      "EditedText": "Money is available for us to travel. The committee must put commitments in the timetable, on where we want to go and when. On housing, there is a strong case for going to Glasgow. On drugs, we must travel and must remember the rural dimension. We must speak to John McAllion, to see whether we can schedule taking the tenants' evidence to the committee in Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1814562+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18294,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 604048,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:06"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18294,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 604051,
      "EditedText": "Right. We need to take direct action."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 604052,
      "EditedText": "Something must be done about accommodation generally. I would not have thought it beyond the wit of man to negotiate with City of Edinburgh Council for a committee room that we could use from time to time. The situation is totally unsatisfactory."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604053",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3354
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 604053,
      "EditedText": "We will take those representations seriously, and Martin Verity and I will pursue those issues. I hope that the matter will be resolved for future meetings. Unless any members disagree, we will move on to our first item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 604054,
      "EditedText": "Rather than read out the action points from the previous meeting, I would like members to raise any issues that they might have.At the previous meeting, we agreed that we should take five or 10 minutes after we hear all the evidence to think through how we should pursue matters. Because of the rush on the agenda last week, we did not quite manage to do that with the evidence from Scottish Homes. With such a substantial presentation and so much detailed questioning from members, we needed some time for reflection.Given the pressure on our agenda this morning, I ask members who have specific points to make to raise them with John McAllion, the reporter on housing, who will collate the views of the committee."
    },
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  },
  {
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 604063,
      "EditedText": "You should get back to Scottish Homes if it does not send the information speedily."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 604067,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify something. I think that you will find that the report on charities is being produced by Dundee University, rather than Abertay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 604068,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Could you sort that out, Karen?Some information has been circulated on the mapping exercise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 604070,
      "EditedText": "We will pursue SPICe on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 604074,
      "EditedText": "I took copies away with me after the launch on Monday so that members could get them as soon as possible. I understand that the progress report was published in June. I hope that I will be able to clear up the situation with letters to the Executive and to David Belfall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 165
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 604077,
      "EditedText": "I will circulate a copy to every member of the committee."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604085",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 604085,
      "EditedText": "I want to emphasise that point. Because so much has been said about not travelling, no committee is applying for funds from the travel budget. Apparently, a huge—or relatively large—pot of money is available. The sooner we get our bids in, the better."
    },
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  {
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 604090,
      "EditedText": "Agenda item 2 covers the social inclusion action team reports. I give a warm welcome to the members of the action teams: Joy Barlow, chair of the excluded young people action team and Gill Stewart, chair of the action team on local anti-poverty action. Each has members of their team with them, who will assist in fielding our questions. We are running six minutes late, according to my plan. It can be difficult to ensure that everyone is able to ask questions, and I want everyone to feel that they have had a proper shot. However, I am afraid that we have a packed agenda. I will allow the debate on both action team reports to run until 11.45 am, as there are discussions that we must have after that on the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill and on the role of reporters. If I try to silence members, therefore, it is not to be rude, but to get us through the agenda. My understanding is that witnesses will give a brief introduction. We will deal with the report on excluded young people first. We will talk about that for about three quarters of an hour and then move on to the next report. I welcome Joy Barlow to the meeting."
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  {
    "ID": "C604091",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Joy Barlow (Scottish Social Inclusion Network): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 604091,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee for asking us to come along to talk about our reports. I believe that committee members have received a copy of the report of the excluded young people action team. It is the glossy document. Members should also have received a short handout, which, I hope, will assist with our discussions later this morning. The five action teams began their deliberations in March this year after the launch of the Government's social inclusion strategy. The membership of the excluded young people action team is at the back of the report. Suffice it to say that people were drawn from a wide variety of backgrounds who had a strategic vision of the needs and concerns of excluded young people in Scotland. I introduce members in particular to Rozanne Foyer from the youth committee of the Scottish Trades Union Congress, who is a member of the action team and is here to help with your questions. We were aware that we could not deliberate in isolation. That would have been entirely inappropriate. We decided therefore to put in place a consultation process. A number of organisations involved in youth services, services for children and local authority departments became what I euphemistically called the doughnut group—we were the jam and they were the doughnut around us, although that is no reflection on the density of those involved in the consultation process. But seriously, we wanted to engage with people in a consultation exercise. The people in that group were aware of all our deliberations all the way through. They received our minutes and papers.In our wider consultation, we had a letter in the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations' weekly newspaper, \"Third Force News\", which invited any individuals or groups with an interest to write to us. We also commissioned two pieces of work: a literature review entitled, \"Excluded Youth—What Works?\" and a report entitled, \"Social Inclusion in Rural Areas\". Both accompany our \"Excluded Young People\" document.Members will see from our remit that we were asked by the Scottish social inclusion network to make recommendations on what more could be done to tackle the social exclusion that is faced by young people in Scotland, with a particular emphasis on people aged between 16 and 21. We had considerable discussion about that age limit. You will see from our report that we have not confined our recommendations to 16 to 21-year-olds. We were all aware—and became more aware when we spoke to young people, organisations and departments during our consultation—that, for some young people, things began to go wrong, or off the rails, before they were 16. We therefore made some recommendations, which I will come to shortly.We were aware that we could not engage in that process of consultation without talking to young people themselves. Our visits are detailed in the report. Wherever possible, we spoke to young people. There was only one exception—when we spoke to Dr Pamela Munn about the Scottish schools ethos network. Everywhere else, we met young people and deliberated from their perspectives as well as from others. I record my thanks to those young people, who gave much of their time and talent to inform us.Because of the breadth of our remit, we have not attempted to set out a comprehensive review of policy. Neither have we set out detailed proposals on the way in which a particular aspect of policy or service provision should be developed. Rather, we have tried to exploit the uniquely broad range of perspectives that are represented on the team, and in the work that we have done, to set out what we consider to be the main issues in youth exclusion, and to outline some steps that we believe will help to address those issues.We began with an examination of the key themes, which are set out in the report in considerable detail, before our recommendations. The first theme is empowering each and every young person. We met young people who, unfortunately, did not have the personal resources to manage successfully the transition into the rights and responsibilities of adulthood. The areas on which we need to focus are self-esteem, self-confidence, aspiration and practical life skills for every young person. We met young people who were leaving the school system and, particularly, who were leaving the care system, who did not have the practical resources to take on board the responsibilities that were expected of them in the adult world.We met young people who were discriminated against because of their age, circumstances, gender, race, disability or sexuality. For some of them, that set up a double discrimination. I would put it in these terms: we met people with very little or no stake in society. As they believed themselves to have no part in society, it was not surprising that they did not feel that they had much to offer. We have made recommendations about empowering each and every young person. I will come back to them in a moment.In the report, the second theme is called \"Better structures, better services\". We met organisations, youth workers and local authority departments that are involved in the delivery of structures and services for young people. I am afraid that, in the majority of cases, we discovered that the present system of service and support is extremely disjointed. We met individuals who provide invaluable support but, time and again, we encountered situations in which the system—whether because of funding mechanisms, barriers within or between organisations, or conflicts between agencies' working practices—hindered efforts and harmed the young people who needed help. We therefore opined that we need to work better to understand one another's values and principles. We also need to be supported by a national legislative and fiscal framework that promotes effective joint working.The final theme was getting policy right. Again, we encountered a number of situations in which aspects of Scottish Executive or UK Government policy were either unhelpful to excluded young people or could be improved. For example, there are inappropriate balances between conflicting objectives and unintended effects of poor co-ordination between policy areas. In particular, the report mentions the benefits system, to which I shall return. What have we recommended? In the handout, there is a list of recommendations, and the report illustrates the recommendations in relation to each of its key themes. On the empowerment of young people, I mentioned our need to consider what happens to young people before the age of 16. We believe that personal resources must be developed in the school curriculum. Schools must become more inclusive. The team did not believe that there was a fundamental tension, as some have suggested, between an inclusive school helping young people to develop self-esteem and self-confidence and a school that seeks to maximise academic achievement. We were impressed by the projects that we visited, on alternatives to exclusion. The flexibility to provide an individualised curriculum should be extended to young people who are identified in every school as vulnerable to social exclusion. The individualised curriculum should seek to meet all the individual's needs, including the development of life skills. Thus we have made recommendations about the inclusiveness of schools.We were very disturbed to hear from young people and from some of those working with them about the place of young people within the power structures of society. We heard of professional as well as lay attitudes that seemed actively to discriminate against young people, based on prejudice and stereotyping. That was compounded for some young people by their ethnic identity, gender, disability or sexuality. For those young people, there was very little stake in society. We have therefore recommended a national publicity campaign to tackle the stereotypes of excluded young people. With regard to better structures and services, we found that much good work was hampered by difficulties within and between organisations. We have made a number of recommendations to try to alleviate and ameliorate some of those problems. We have recommended that a youth inclusion strategy plan and youth support services be brought together under the responsibility of a senior officer in the local authority and that youth inclusion strategy plans be held in the Scottish Executive under the direction of the Minister for Children and Education. There are a number of recommendations along those lines, and members might want to ask questions in a moment.We were also aware that, in terms of how people viewed young people within structures and organisations, there was a need for a youth awareness function in agencies that work with young people. By those agencies, we mean the police, the benefits system, housing departments and other bodies. We recommend that they develop a youth awareness function to improve the way in which they deal with young people. Finally, we looked at getting policy right. We are mindful of the fact that the responsibility for benefits legislation still resides with the Westminster Parliament. However, we urge the Scottish Executive to request a review of the benefits system for young people. The complexities and inconsistencies of the current system cause difficulties for many vulnerable young people. In the report, we gave the example of a young woman who had the chance to become better qualified in child care. Because she was aged 17 she had to decide whether to take that opportunity and do so without her housing benefit, or give up the opportunity to try to become better qualified and keep her housing benefit. It is intolerable that young people who desire to get on, get qualified and have a stake in society should have to make a choice about getting better qualifications and sleeping rough.In terms of the criminal justice system, we recommend that as many young people as possible are retained in the hearing system until they are 18. However, we wish to draw to the attention of readers of the report, and particularly this committee, that we met a lot of young people who believed that they did not receive equal treatment from the criminal justice system. Many believed that they were not protected by the police in the same way as other elements of society are. You may say, \"They would say that,\" considering some of their backgrounds and life situations, but we are nevertheless concerned that a system that does not protect young people properly, which does not give them confidence in its fairness, which brands some of them criminals at an early age—we heard some concerning stories from vendors of The Big Issue in Glasgow—and which in general does not give due weight to their interests as members of society, is a society that will not support their inclusion in the longer term.We examined the subject of drugs and drugs policy. We made no major recommendations because we were aware of the drugs strategy produced by the Scottish advisory committee on drug misuse, but we witnessed the catastrophic effect of serious drug dependency coupled with homelessness, prostitution, offending and prison. They leave young people in such desperate straits that it seems unlikely that some of them will ever recover. We have therefore recommended that we need far more rehabilitation programmes for young people, addressing their particular needs with imaginative service design.With regard to homelessness, we make particular recommendations about models of transitional accommodation, linked to practical support, with training and employment opportunities. Hostel accommodation is expensive, and while more hostel accommodation is necessary, young people do not always see it as safe. Some of them told us that they prefer to take their chances on the streets, where they can look out for each other. We need to listen to young people about what their particular service design might be.Finally, I believe that I speak for the rest of the team when I say that over the past few months social inclusion for young people has become not just a policy imperative, but a moral imperative. We saw so many wasted youths in Scotland. Although they were vibrant, articulate and had ideas aplenty, they had no stake in society and some were branded as no good before they even made a start. We met young people with the same aspirations, desires and visions as my child and, I am sure, your children, yet their opportunities were manifestly different. I am not suggesting that they are all little angels. Most of them need to understand about responsibilities, rights, social order and the need for social skills, but life has dealt them a raw deal. Inequalities, driven largely by poverty and unemployment in their families, mean that some young people will always find their life chances severely restricted from birth. The excluded young people's action team believes that until those wider inequalities are tackled, some young people will always begin life at a severe disadvantage.We believe that within the Scottish Executive and the UK Parliament we have a policy imperative with regard to social inclusion: it lies at the heart of Government objectives. We feel that it would be very sad and, indeed, morally reprehensible, if changes did not take place to equip excluded vulnerable young people in Scotland to take their rightful place in society and give to Scotland in the 21st century what we know they are capable of."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
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      "EditedText": "The second thing I want to mention is the involvement of the private sector. To what extent have you examined what happens in other countries, particularly the United States? We do not want to follow them blindly, but in areas such as mentoring—I am surprised that it has not been mentioned—the private sector is very involved in helping socially excluded young people. The major banks in Manhattan help the Hispanics, the black youth and so on in the Bronx and in Harlem. We must examine that kind of scheme because it does not necessarily have resource implications.My third point is about drugs policy and drugs strategy. Fairly strong criticisms, with which I wholeheartedly agree, have been made of both the UK Government and the Scottish Executive in the document \"Excluded Young People\". You have said that treatment, rehabilitation services and—by implication—after-care services are hugely under-provided. Is there a need for a change in emphasis on drugs policy towards treatment, rehabilitation, after-care services, half-way houses and so on? Are you also looking for non-custodial sentences to be made available through drugs courts? Should young people be given the option of—or be pushed into—treatment rather than being put in prison? You have recently visited prisons and you referred to the inadequacy of counselling and care for those who have the guts to get off drugs when they are in prison."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604101",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rozanne Foyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 604101,
      "EditedText": "We feel strongly that drugs are at the root of many things, but that they are not the cause of social exclusion. Serious drug abuse is a symptom of social exclusion. It is something that young people do when they have no hope. There is a massive difference between that and recreational drug use. There should be a complete change in the way in which the criminal justice system deals with drug abuse. At the moment, young people are being criminalised and socially excluded because of the way in which the criminal justice system operates. We hope that the Scottish Executive will debate this and look at the issue with fresh eyes.When I went to Cornton Vale, I met prison officers who said that they were not rehab counsellors and had none of the appropriate skills to deal with the young people in their care who were on the verge of death. The prison officers felt that those young people should not be in prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 604102,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I hope that we will be able to look at that again."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 604103,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in a number of aspects of the report. First, it highlights the point—with which I agree—that the benefits system prejudices people in this age group. I know that you may have general ideas about that, but I would be interested in more specific ideas. I feel that your points on the criminal justice system are sadly lacking in realism. You are suggesting that people up to the age of 18 should be dealt with by the children's panel. At 16, people in Scotland can get married, can have sex—if some have their way they will be able to have homosexual sex—and yet you are suggesting that they should not be held liable for their own criminal acts. Frankly, I find that incredible.I agree that more should be done to rehabilitate people who are the victims of drug addiction. Can I point out that none of those people are in prison for drug addiction per se? They are there as a result of crimes that they have committed to feed their habit. We have responsibilities to the socially excluded youth of this country—real responsibilities that we take seriously. At the same time we have responsibilities to the vast majority of people in this country, who lead organised lives, and to the young people of the self-same generation as the drug addicted who get on with their lives without any problems regarding drugs or crime. When we put the emphasis on those who fall by the wayside and suggest that they should not be dealt with as criminals after the age of 16, we are letting down the broader aspect of Scottish society. Can you address that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604106",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rozanne Foyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 604106,
      "EditedText": "I will start with your last question. We were concerned about how benefit support has been stripped from young people. However, it was not our place to make specific recommendations about what action should be taken. We took a broad-brush approach to highlight the issues and problems and to suggest some broad recommendations on which the committee could agree.However, the report says that the benefits system has to be re-evaluated so that young people in that age group can be properly supported, which implicitly means that more benefit support will have to be given. The main problem is that young people at this age are moving from youth to adulthood. Contrary to popular opinion, many young people are not able to stay in the family home. It is up to this committee and the Executive to decide whether the benefits system should be individualised so that such barriers can be got over and exceptions made, or whether a blanket approach should be taken by restoring benefits to 16 to 18-year-olds.As for jobs and employment opportunities, our report says clearly that poverty and unemployment are the major causes of social exclusion. As we had a very tight few months to prepare the report, we did not want to impinge on areas that might be covered by other groups such as the action team set up to tackle poverty. However, we said frequently that the quality of employment opportunities for young people should be improved and that there must be economic development to provide such opportunities.Furthermore, there is a major problem with young people's self-esteem and general sense of hope. A young person's perception that he or she will never get a job is just as powerful as not being able to get a job."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Joy Barlow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
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      "EditedText": "When our group met, we were expecting the Beattie committee's report, which is mentioned in our report. We would obviously follow that committee's vision and recommendations on jobs and opportunities for young people. Perhaps I should have said in my introduction that our report should be read alongside the Beattie committee's recommendations."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604109",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 604109,
      "EditedText": "So you agree with me."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604112",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Joy Barlow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 604112,
      "EditedText": "If we do not put money into prevention, we will be in the same situation in 20 years' time. I recommend that we look not just at the hard-and-sharp end, but at prevention. I would like the Scottish Executive to examine this issue as a whole, rather than just in priority areas. I hope that a redistribution of resources in some areas will free up some money. If the Executive takes our report as being about rather more than motherhood and apple pie—as saying what it is really like out there for young people—it will see the need for prevention initiatives, as well as for hard-end crisis intervention.I wear another hat, as far as drugs and young people are concerned. I am a member of the advisory council on the misuse of drugs at the Home Office and of the Scottish advisory committee on drug misuse. I feel that we have to concentrate on treatment and prevention—treatment and care, in particular. I therefore have some questions about a drugs enforcement agency.You are absolutely right about the gender issue. Recent research, particularly that of Professor Neil McKegany of Glasgow University, indicates that by the end of secondary 4, many young women are using substances that are addictive in the longer term, such as heroin, to the same extent as, if not more than, young men. Tackling that is a major issue. We will not do it through the criminal justice system: we must do it through prevention, treatment and care."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
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      "EditedText": "At the end of this discussion, once we have heard the second report, we will return to the question of how we should pursue some of these issues and incorporate them into our agenda. Many of the points that you have made today will not be lost from our agenda. I think that Roseanna has extended the power of our committee slightly. We are happy with that, although I am not sure whether others are. On behalf of the committee, I thank you for your straightforward and frank answers to our questions. You are welcome to stay to hear the rest of the discussion.I move on to the second report. I welcome Gill Stewart and her team and ask them to provide us with a brief introduction."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart (Scottish Social Inclusion Network): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 604114,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener—Interruption."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 604117,
      "EditedText": "No, I did not see you indicate that you wanted to speak. We have business to pursue. Robert indicated to me earlier that he wanted to speak, and I made clear to him that I would not take his question. On you go, Gill."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604118",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. Like Joy, I am grateful that we have been given the opportunity to speak to the committee about our report on local action to tackle poverty. With me are Trevor Lakey from the Greater Glasgow Health Board and Paul Zealey from the Glasgow Development Agency, who were also members of the team. I can spot another member, John Mulvey, in the public gallery, but he has his head down at the moment. I am glad that he, too, is here, because I want to emphasise that this was very much a team report.I think that you all have a handout, which I will speak to. I am sorry that some of you did not receive the reports at the time that you were meant to. I think that they were distributed on Friday, in the hope that you would have them over the weekend, but I appreciate that, because of logistical difficulties, reports may not have reached members until yesterday. The first part of the report has the merit of being brief, so at least it has something to commend it.I will begin with the team's remit. In the handout, I say that we were asked to look at the\"effectiveness and sustainability of local anti-poverty action\".The thinking behind that was that, over the years, there has been a great deal of investment in local anti-poverty action throughout Scotland. Two problems that we have not tackled very effectively are assessing how well the action has worked and managing to sustain projects or to replicate them more widely. There have been pockets of good practice, but disseminating the findings and sustaining the approach have proved difficult.We were asked to consider what more could be done to make things better, to generate new ideas for action and to identify ways of supporting best practice. We all felt that we were not starting with a blank sheet of paper. As I have said, there has been a great deal of activity over the years. There is a great deal of knowledge, activity and investment out there, in communities, which can be drawn on and developed.In the context of the earlier report, we talked about the difficulty of disseminating best practice. That is a common theme and an issue that arises in other reports, such as \"Inclusive Communities\" and \"Making It Happen\". When considering social policy, one bumps against such matters all the time.In pursuing their remits, all the teams were asked to take particular account of gender issues, the racial dimension, disability and the problems faced by people living in remote rural areas. We tried to do that, although we are all aware that we were not able to devote as much time to those dimensions as we would have liked. There were exchanges with people working in rural areas and with people representing ethnic minorities. We did our best to pursue that.I have outlined the membership of the action team—it also appears in the report—to demonstrate that the team covered a wide range of skills, experience and knowledge. Two people on the team, Lynne Main and Carey Sinclair, have had first-hand experience of living and grappling with poverty in impoverished communities. There was practical experience as well as professional and theoretical knowledge. I was very grateful for the hard work of the team, the commitment that its members brought to their task and the contributions that they made. Three members of the team, Damian Killeen, Lynne Main and I, are also members of the social inclusion network, so we have that connection.What is anti-poverty action? The slide gives some examples of the kind of projects that we undertake. There is a wide range of activities, dealing with the basics of life: food, warmth, money, work and benefits. Possessions are also important: some of the local exchange and trading schemes are about exchanging skills and practical items. Child care, as we have already mentioned, is one of the key components. One of the main ways out of poverty is work, so for many people, especially women, good-quality child care is critical.At our first meeting, we were knocked back by the scale of the task. We are facing a very large canvas. We had limited time in which to present our initial report, and we felt that we needed to break it down into manageable areas. We knew that if we continued to meet as a team, we would not cover much ground. Although the team met monthly, we also broke down into four main groups.One group was asked to consider money and financial services, because the main themes that we were pursuing were how local anti-poverty action could maximise income and how that action could reduce living costs. The two things go hand in hand. The second group considered food, health and living standards. The third group considered the importance of routes into training and employment for people who live in impoverished communities. The fourth group considered the social economy: activity that is not conducted for profit—any surplus is ploughed back—and is tailored to people's needs.We had a fifth group that did some work on assessment criteria, which fed into the work of the other four groups; in other words, it asked \"how do we assess this action in the first place and how do we know that it is working?\"Our report falls into two parts, the second of which consists of the reports from those four sub-groups. The first part, which is quite short, tries to focus on some of the big questions. The findings were based on discussions between the sub-groups and a range of people, while members of the plenary group came to talk to us about specific issues. Through a letter in Third Force News and other mechanisms, we invited contributions from external groups, agencies and individuals and tried to boil the matter down to various key questions.The first question we asked ourselves was why we have local anti-poverty action. We concluded that its primary purpose is to alleviate the immediate impact of income poverty and to help people who are living impoverished lives, in impoverished communities, with limited resources—not just money—at their disposal. Our second conclusion was that, although most of us access opportunities, goods and services through the market, it does not work well for people who live in poverty. At best, it works imperfectly for such people. We saw local anti-poverty action, therefore, as a grass-roots response to that failure of the market, and the failure of public services such as the benefits system, the health service and education. People who live in poverty find it more difficult than most of the rest of us to access the kind of services that we take for granted.The second question that we asked ourselves was why we should support anti-poverty action. We did not take it as a given that such action is good. We have to look at what purpose it serves. Can it justify itself in its own terms? We came up with three specific points. First, we felt that in a society that claims to care about all its members and to be equal and inclusive, there is a moral imperative to alleviate the worst effects of income poverty. If local anti-poverty action does that, that is a justification for it at a fundamental level.We also saw it as a mechanism for people who find it difficult to make their voices heard, to articulate to the providers of services, whether in the public sector, private sector or government, what it is that they want and need. It is a mechanism for providing the continuous feedback loop that forms part of the modernising government agenda. If services, whether they are provided by the public or the private sector, are to improve, their providers need to know what is wanted. We saw local anti-poverty action as a means of articulating what poor people want.Thirdly, while it is an activity that has merits in its own right, it offers many people a way out of poverty and exclusion. For some of them it is their first involvement in working with others, in taking control of their lives, and in making a difference—in increasing their self-esteem.The next slide—I am being hurried on, so I will move a bit faster—identifies the key characteristics of an effective local anti-poverty action. I will not go through all the points, but will emphasise the importance of rooting the action firmly in the community. The action must also be consistent with, and complemented by, activity at national level. The process is two-way: it needs to be both top-down and bottom-up, and it needs to connect. Often support needs to be sustained. We cannot always expect to get it right first time.The next slide sets out our main recommendations. The first is about\"complementarity between national and local action\".We recommended that there should be,\"Flexible benefits pilots in SIP areas\".That is about using the discretion in the system. It is also about improving the clarity of the system and helping people to find their way through the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 604120,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Zealey (Scottish Social Inclusion Network): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 604128,
      "EditedText": "I might be able to pick up on a couple of points. People who have been involved with the Scottish credit union development agency have examined credit union development across Scotland. The evidence on the success of credit unions in the west of Scotland has come from SCUDA and other development agencies It seems that the bulk of credit unions that have started in low-income families have a high dependency on mainstream urban programming or similar funding to get them started. The success of credit unions with low overheads is due to volunteers and the organisation of volunteers. The best examples have been in workplaces: the former Strathclyde Regional Council credit union was perhaps the best example. The real issues are training for volunteers, and ensuring that there is scope in the definition of common bond so that it can be more widely applied. For example, the recently established Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations credit union uses membership of the voluntary sector as a common bond and therefore opens up wider possibilities for extending credit union membership to low-income families.I am a member of the Scottish Enterprise inclusive economy leadership group, so I have given feedback about the local enterprise company action plans. This week, the Scottish Enterprise board will consider a proposal that includes recommendations on practical action to support the social economy from the beginning of the new financial year, although some LECs are already doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 604130,
      "EditedText": "You referred briefly to the \"Making It Happen\" report, which criticises partnership groups that have been set up to deal with social inclusion at local level and says that there is often confusion or conflict between them. Why does your report not say much about the social inclusion partnership areas, except in terms of a more flexible approach to benefits?I am on the board of the Castlemilk Partnership and we are trying to pull together local organisations. Your report does not make much mention of the role of the social inclusion partnerships, despite the fact that many of the things you mention fall within their remit. They are trying to pull groups together and get them represented on their boards and are dealing with some of the umbrella groups. What do you think the experience of the early days of the social inclusion partnerships can offer you in making your recommendations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
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      "ID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 604135,
      "EditedText": "The last report identified a fragmentation of approach and you alluded to the variety of service providers. Do you consider it a problem that there is fragmentation, conflict and difficulty in identifying a national strategy in local operations?Secondly, on page 11 of your action team's report, you mention the problems that people have going through bureaucratic hoops to access funding. Do you have a clearer view of how that should be overcome? There is still a need to monitor, have best practice and get people to conduct good projects. One of the reasons for the hoops is to guide people in that direction. Are there ways of marrying the two together to encourage groups with fewer resources than others to access funding more successfully while not losing focus or the need to develop? How do we deal, in other words, with the empowerment bit?Thirdly, you identified independent advice agencies as being fairly fragmented, with the exception of Citizens Advice Scotland. There have been difficulties with competition between local authorities—with internal advice agencies—and the voluntary sector. How do we get over that problem and that in-built conflict of interest? Do you see any linkage with the youth information service provision that was dealt with in the last report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 604136,
      "EditedText": "On fragmentation, we felt that the distribution of productive activity across Scotland is fairly mixed. As we would expect, we get a lot of activity in certain densely populated areas such as west central Scotland.In my opening remarks, I said that one of the characteristics of social policy is finding pockets of good practice. Agencies are not joining up and working as well as they might, which is one of the reasons why the Executive is majoring so heavily in the cross-cutting agenda, to ensure that the major public agencies work better together and join up the resources. Considerable resources have been devoted to tackling local anti-poverty. I do not think that any of us was convinced that the best use had been made of resources over the years. We really need to improve co-operation between agencies.There are constant complaints about access to funding. The funding routes for the voluntary sector are multiple and complex. Funding can be short-term. We have said that we need to review funding regimes: we envisaged longer-term and more transparent funding regimes that made it easier for people to access the available funding. I would link that to our recommendation about the social economy fund. We see that as a high-level resource which would help plug some of the gaps.Trevor, would you like to say something on advice agencies, or whatever?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 604138,
      "EditedText": "It is timely that you should mention the example in Carntyne where GP services are being used to enable people to access benefits. The action team sub-group on maximising income draws attention to the benefits initiative in south Lanarkshire that aims to ensure that people get their maximum benefit entitlement. The sub-group report mentions the lack of co-operation from the Benefits Agency and its refusal to become involved in such work. From my experience of dealing with constituents as a Westminster MP, it appears to me that the Benefits Agency and the medical service that is attached to it actively discourage people from getting benefits. They pull people in and tell them that they must be re-examined for entitlement to disability living allowance and incapacity benefit. People who have been on those benefits for 10 or 12 years suddenly find themselves taken off them and left in limbo for a year while they go through the lengthy appeals procedure. I see no recommendation in the report that targets the Benefits Agency, saying that it is a problem and is making poor people poorer, instead of doing what it is meant to do, which is to improve people's income and help them out of poverty. Should not we confront the Benefits Agency about what it is up to in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 604142,
      "EditedText": "Before I take a question from Tommy Sheridan, I want to ask about insurance companies. We do not have time to explore the role of the private sector properly, but it seems that we need to ask the public sector to intervene in some of the cases that you have mentioned, where the private sector has failed poor people. You have properly flagged up real issues about the lack of insurance and the conduct of insurance companies in poorer areas. We are trying to get the insurance companies to accept some social responsibility. In your document, you talk about engaging them in anti-poverty action. How can we do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 604150,
      "EditedText": "I thought that it was a countdown signal, telling me to stop."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C604147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
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      "ID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 604147,
      "EditedText": "I apologise, Gill, if my points are covered in detail in your document. As I am not a member of the committee, I have not managed to read the full document; I hope to get a copy today.My first question relates to John McAllion's point. I was not aware—I do not know whether other members are—that the medical services of the Benefits Agency had recently been privatised. The interviews and medical assessments that are carried out in relation to incapacity benefit are now carried out by a private agency. Many people who rely on that benefit now find that they are either losing the benefit completely or receiving a lower rate. Could the action team hold an inquiry into the independence of the medical advice that the Benefits Agency has sought?Secondly, during your discussions with the action team, did you examine the rigidity of the social inclusion funding network and what it is allowed to fund? In Glasgow, we have been frustrated about funding for many years, particularly in Pollok, where we recently obtained SIP status. The problem lies in our inability to secure funding for projects that have done a great job and achieved their objectives but have run out of funding—the SIP has been told that it is not allowed to re-fund, even though a batch of new funding is available. The system seems insanely rigid. Does your report refer to that? Was the matter discussed during your deliberations?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
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      "ID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 604153,
      "EditedText": "You were talking about pilot projects. At any time when you were preparing the report, did you examine local anti-poverty strategies such as those used in Northern Ireland under the policy appraisal and fair treatment scheme and under the targeting social needs structures?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604154",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 604154,
      "EditedText": "We had a presentation from an English academic whose name escapes me. He talked about local anti-poverty strategies generally, but I think that he concentrated on work that was being done south of the border. Can you remember, Paul?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Zealey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 604160,
      "EditedText": "There is some detail in the text about whether something is a genuine example of local anti-poverty action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Zealey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 604162,
      "EditedText": "We would all have a personal opinion, but whether we have a corporate opinion is another matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 604166,
      "EditedText": "I support Alex Neil's point. I would also like to say that I think that it is unfair on those who have given evidence today that the evidence session was so brief—just over an hour and a quarter. That is thoroughly inadequate; it is unfair on them and bad for the committee. Each report should have had a session of an hour and a half to two hours. This is not a criticism of you, convener. I appreciate the difficulty that you have in convening this committee. Grouping questions is, however, not an adequate way of taking evidence; it does not allow a member to follow up with supplementaries. We must be able to ask one question at a time, followed by a supplementary, so that we can pursue a line of questioning. That is what taking evidence is about. That is the way in which evidence can support solid, thorough reports. We must slow down and begin to operate this committee more effectively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 604174,
      "EditedText": "We should not rehearse the arguments of the referendum campaign again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 604183,
      "EditedText": "No, my point relates to the committee's guidance on reporters. I have not seen a written remit for reporters. According to Martin Verity, the remit should have been agreed when the reporters were appointed.More important, if we are to examine a national anti-poverty strategy, we need to decide whether to create a sub-committee according to rule 12.5 of the standing orders or whether, under rule 12.7, we have reporters who meet other members of the committee without those other members being formally appointed by the committee. We appear to be in some confusion. The group has been called an ad hoc group, a committee, a sub-group and a sub-committee. Until we have a constitution for that organisation it should cease working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 604185,
      "EditedText": "I would not take the drastic step that Lloyd suggests, but I have every sympathy with what he said. Basically, the group has been called every name possible. I did not even know that it had been set up: perhaps it happened when I was in hospital.I know that John McAllion is the reporter on housing issues and that Karen Whitefield is the reporter on the voluntary sector, but I do not know whether anyone is on drugs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 604187,
      "EditedText": "If we are going to have reporters we must do it in a formal way, so that everyone knows who is doing what. I do not want to complicate matters or make them more bureaucratic, but if we are having reporters, those who have an interest in specific areas—obviously, mine is drug issues, and others are interested in housing and the voluntary sector—should work closely with the reporters so that they have an input. That is how we should be doing it. We do not want to be over-bureaucratic, but we must know who is doing what."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 604190,
      "EditedText": "At the previous meeting, or the one before that, it was unanimously agreed that Karen Whitefield was to be the reporter on the voluntary sector. Do not let us confuse the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 604192,
      "EditedText": "I do not see anything wrong in committee members meeting informally to discuss the issues in greater detail. That can only improve our knowledge and our performance when we come here to the committee. But when we will find the time to do that, I do not know. I am confused here—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 604196,
      "EditedText": "I accept that, but we are getting into the dangerous area of changing our decisions meeting by meeting. We have to learn to live with the outcomes of our decisions, and take some time before deciding to change them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 604198,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Is Lloyd going to refer to the paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 604200,
      "EditedText": "We will raise that at the next meeting, but now we must return to the committee paper. I accept Alex's suggestion about the anti-poverty sub-group. If we bring a report back to a further committee meeting, we must spend time discussing it. When we have 15 or 20 minutes at the end of a discussion, members will get frustrated and angry with me if I have to cut them off to let somebody else start."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 604203,
      "EditedText": "If we are to have four reporters, I suggest that they take it in turn to report to the committee. We do not want four reports on every agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 604208,
      "EditedText": "The committee has given the bill top billing and that must be made clear. We have cleared our agenda to deal with the bill. At the meeting yesterday, I resented the suggestion that the committee was not co-operating in some way, because it needed more time beyond Christmas. At least 20 to 25 organisations want to submit evidence; some will have to be in written form. Members will get very agitated when they receive piles of documents that they have to read, rather than hearing evidence. We have to hear and read substantial evidence.Yesterday, I was given to understand that a month would not make that big a difference to the bill. It would not make that much difference if the bill were to be heard at the end of December or at the end of January. That would give us a wee bit of scope to fit in extra meetings. Between now and Christmas, our agenda is extremely pressed, and those extra meetings would be to our benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 604211,
      "EditedText": "Tommy has made his point and I do not want to repeat what he said. However, I wish to make a minor correction to what Alex said. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee, as the lead committee, cannot report on the evidence that it has taken until we have reported to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 604212,
      "EditedText": "I made that point earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 604213,
      "EditedText": "It is crucial. Roseanna Cunningham has been extremely co-operative. She is almost a running fixture at the Parliamentary Bureau as she has been at its meetings on each of the past three Tuesdays. As Tommy Sheridan said, that committee has problems that make our committee's work load look relatively light."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 604214,
      "EditedText": "Keith, you are repeating what you said earlier. This is ridiculous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 604215,
      "EditedText": "The Justice and Home Affairs Committee has three bills. We have to cope with the work. I was not criticising you personally, convener, and I hope that you did not take it that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 604217,
      "EditedText": "As you said, the timetable is extremely tight and we do not want to let it slip. You are right—we must not keep on changing decisions. However, we are in charge of the timetable and it must not be allowed to take on a life of its own. In order to insert something like Tommy's bill, other items might have to be postponed. We must start working alongside the schedule. I am sympathetic to what Cathie Craigie said, as we are all on a steep learning curve. I might know a bit about drugs, but I know far less about housing and other issues that I will have to learn about. If we do not have time to consider written submissions before we take oral evidence, we will have a problem—an increasing problem—as a committee. We must address that problem, but it is difficult to do that when legislation comes in on an already very tight timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 604220,
      "EditedText": "It seems to me that, from what Tommy said, we are holding more meetings than the Justice and Home Affairs Committee is holding, although I have no idea what that committee is doing. There would be no problem with swapping sessions—putting homelessness back one week and bringing forward the evidence session. In fact, we agreed at the previous meeting not to hear the homelessness organisations right away, but to bring someone else in—I have not yet had a chance to sit down with Martin and to report back on that. I sympathise with you, Margaret: it is impossible to convene this committee as members continually change the agenda—not from meeting to meeting but from minute to minute in the course of a meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 604221,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 604222,
      "EditedText": "I do not see any problem with finishing those sessions before Christmas, as nothing can happen until after Christmas. It would not be a problem to hold back the homelessness organisations a week, if that meant that we could get through the work on the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill before Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 604225,
      "EditedText": "I was going to suggest four, but that is just my view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 604227,
      "EditedText": "I am basically sympathetic towards the bill, although I would require a number of reassurances on it, in everybody's best interests. We are repeatedly getting ourselves into a guddle—a guddle that is largely of our own making. Basically, we must decide on a course of action and stick to it. As Keith Raffan said, we should not accept any more work until we have cleared our backlog. I am firmly of the view that we should stick to what we have agreed thus far. If there is anything else that we can do to expedite the bill, by all means let us do it, but let us also adhere to our timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 604240,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the convener could put a motion to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 604241,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I will. I propose that we stick to the outlined agenda. We will swap around housing, as Fiona Hyslop suggested, which will give us the space to take extra evidence in the first two weeks in January. Barring accidents and emergencies, we will report to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee in the third week of January."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 604244,
      "EditedText": "Members are being asked to vote on an issue for which they do not have any evidence. We should accept what the convener is saying and keep the matter under review. If we are making good progress, fine—we will be able to report in December; if we decide that we need further sessions, we will have those sessions.I have not seen which organisations have been asked to give evidence. It is stupid to force votes that will only go down party lines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 604245,
      "EditedText": "I will accept a compromise that we review the situation in December. If it is necessary to have a fourth or fifth session, that is fine, but we should not commit ourselves to five sessions on the bill on top of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee's work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C604253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 604253,
      "EditedText": "That is eight weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 604255,
      "EditedText": "On a point of clarification, convener. Is John formalising his compromise proposal? Yes or no?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 604258,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:37."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 604058,
      "EditedText": "I have a quick point to make about Scottish Homes. I do not think that it is just a question of assimilating the views of the committee. Scottish Homes undertook to do two specific pieces of work. One of those, which interests me greatly, relates to the additional cost of raising housing investment money through the private sector rather than in the traditional way, through the public sector. I do not know who is responsible for this—perhaps it is Martin—but they need to pursue Scottish Homes, to ensure that that work is done for us and that we receive it within a reasonable time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 604065,
      "EditedText": "Can we look to doing that, Martin? The action points from the previous meeting are quite helpful, but it would be useful if we could add a forward plan detailing things that we are expecting in the future, with some indication of when we expect them.I will quickly run through the action points, to ensure that we have covered them. I hope that the letter from the Scottish Executive has been circulated. Karen Whitefield will look into the issue of police criminal records and the Abertay University report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 604069,
      "EditedText": "The information was extremely useful, but it was not a mapping exercise. The mapping exercise that we requested was to cover all the social inclusion work that is being done. Much work is being done by Scottish Enterprise and other agencies, such as health boards, and none of that has been included. Spend figures were not included either.I thank the Scottish Parliament information centre for what it has done, but ask it to complete the job and to do a proper mapping exercise, as we originally requested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 604072,
      "EditedText": "I was at the launch of the action team reports on Monday, when I asked about the status of the report. I was told—only in passing, so this information will have to be followed up—that the report was intended to feed in directly to the work of the Executive in terms of announcements that will be made about measures and targets. It was never intended to be a report of the evaluation action team. I am not entirely satisfied with that answer, so I will write formally to David Belfall and ask for written clarification about the status of the work of the evaluation team. We want to know if and when a report will be published."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 604073,
      "EditedText": "Can the date of the document's publication be clarified? An Executive spokesman said that it would be published in June. Clearly, it has not been published, so where did the confusion come from? When will the committee be given copies of the interim report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18295,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 604075,
      "EditedText": "Are copies available?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 604076,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I gave copies to Martin, the clerk, last night."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 604078,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that the next time we get people in from the social inclusion network, we invite the chair of the action group on evaluation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 604080,
      "EditedText": "One of the action points from last week was the paper detailing recommendations for the hearing of evidence in the drugs inquiry. We need to go out and talk to people about the subject, rather than have people come to talk to us all the time. Those visits will have to be arranged in advance and are therefore a high priority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ID": 18295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 604082,
      "EditedText": "That is the point which I wanted to raise. Such visits are important. We need representation not only of the city areas, but of some of the industrially deprived rural areas in Fife and elsewhere. I am not making an advertisement, but the all-party committee on drugs misuse meets tonight at Simpson House on Queen Street—it is a rehab and through-care centre for offenders. I hope that members will come along, as the meeting is relevant to the drugs inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18295,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 604088,
      "EditedText": "They will take place in Edinburgh, somewhere in committee chambers, although I am not sure where.Another action point from last week was that correspondence was referred to the appropriate reporters. I am sorry to rush folk. I just want to get on. We will talk about the role of the reporters later. Is there anything under this agenda item that cannot be left until the end of the meeting? I hope that the answer is no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 604089,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 604092,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your presentation and report, which was substantial. Members are desperate to talk to you: I can sense it in the body language. I will begin by asking you a few questions, and then I will open the discussion to other committee members. I will ask you all of my questions, because it might be easier if we group our questions together.I have been involved in youth work for some time. I think that there is tension between a standardised youth strategy that attempts to meet young people's needs in the areas of discrimination, stereotyping, exclusion from the political process and so on and one that tries to address the needs of vulnerable young people in the areas of leaving care, homelessness, chronic drug misuse, prostitution and so on. Sometimes strategic responses have not properly met young people's varied needs. For example, a youth forum might be appropriate in Bearsden but might not be appropriate in Easterhouse because of young people's experiences and other factors that impinge on their needs. The same applies to young people from rural areas—do they have distinct needs? Do we resolve that tension if we rely too much on a global approach to youth ostrategy?I will move on to my other questions to give you a chance to think. You refer to gender throughout the report, which is welcome. Youth workers tell us that, over recent years, there has been a need to develop unique responses to the needs of girls and young women, as the term youth often refers to boys and young men. I was not sure how deeply you had examined the need for distinct approaches across the service, rather than trying to remind people that gender issues exist by just saying \"gender\". Those issues need to be considered in depth. Finally, how much attention did you pay to the resource implications of your recommendations? Do they fall within existing resources? If new resources were required, what would you prioritise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 604095,
      "EditedText": "I would like to follow on from that last point, because resource implications are important. There are two or three other points that I would like to raise quickly but I will deal with resource implications first. I am very much in favour of youth forums. I attended one in Aberdeenshire, which was one of the most difficult political meetings I have attended, although that was good for me. There are admirable projects throughout Scotland, such as the youth advice project at Inverurie, but the trouble is that they are grubbing around for money. Best practice is not replicated throughout all local authorities because they do not have the crucial resources to do so.What methods are there for sharing the best practice of local authorities that have schemes, such as the Corner in Dundee, which are highly successful? Such examples are, unfortunately, isolated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rozanne Foyer (Scottish Social Inclusion Network): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 604099,
      "EditedText": "We looked at mentoring, but we called it advocacy. We think that it is important for people to build personal links with others that will build their self-esteem and help them to get through the maze of support that might—or might not—be available.We envisage advocates or mentors with teeth, and flexibility from the other services so that the advocate can help the person get the package they need. At the moment, even where good people from voluntary projects are supporting people, they are in many cases unable to offer the kind of support that they would like. There are some examples in our report of where that has happened.We met many people who were struggling with funding problems. The problem was not so much that they lacked money, but that the funding was short term. Funding was also provided in a competitive environment. I do not know that the problem is a shortage of money. We must completely review the way in which money is provided and make funding more flexible and much broader. I would be worried about too much private sector involvement. We found that the picture is already very fragmented and that a more strategic approach is needed. Things must be allowed to happen at the very bottom in a way that is individual and that suits the particular needs of young people in different areas and circumstances, but that must be led by the people at the very top. We mentioned that we thought there should be a minister for youth—someone who could look at the social inclusion issues for young people and draw them all together. There must be leadership and a national strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Joy Barlow: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 604104,
      "EditedText": "One of the reasons we suggest that it is appropriate to retain young people in the children's hearing system up to the age of 18 is that we have seen that it is possible to reduce offending between the ages of 16 and 18 where that is happening.I fully accept that we have a responsibility to the rest of society and that the criminal justice system is concerned with social order. Our concern was that, while young people were within the criminal justice system between the ages of 16 and 18, very little was being done to assist them after the age of 18. That was laying the foundations for more difficulties in the future. I accept that our suggestion may be difficult for many members of society to take on board, but we believed that we saw good practice that could create an opportunity to turn young people's lives around.On drugs and drugs policy, I could not agree with you more that many young people are in prison because of the crimes that they commit, but I repeat that they get very little help in examining that offending behaviour if they are in the prison system. The record is appalling. We are talking about young people whose lives are characterised by severe drug dependency in their teenage years. We must assist them to get out of that. Some of the people we met are beyond recall. We will not be able to do anything for them, but perhaps we can help the next generation. I urge the Scottish Executive to examine treatment and rehabilitation much more closely, rather than criminalising young people whose lives are characterised from an early age by a host of difficulties that prison will never solve. Perhaps a different approach within the criminal justice system could begin to solve those difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rozanne Foyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 604108,
      "EditedText": "On the last question, about funding and resources, page 7 of our report refers specifically to the complete lack of resources in Glasgow in particular. The report says:\"It was clear to us that if any major steps are to be made in addressing youth exclusion in Glasgow, there will need to be a major increase in the funding available to agencies and organisations working in the city\".Our report makes clear that not only does funding need to be increased, it has to be used in a better and more long-term way. Putting money into the prevention of youth exclusion now can only benefit society in the long term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rozanne Foyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 604110,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C604116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 604116,
      "EditedText": "You were looking at my face."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 604124,
      "EditedText": "I want to cover two areas of your report: credit unions and local enterprise company action plans for the social economy. Your report said that credit unions have shown varying degrees of success over the years, and suggested that those that have been more successful have been based in the workplace rather than in low-income economies. How did you reach those conclusions? Can you expand on your idea of a central support system for credit unions? What type of support would be offered? Did the action team identify a need for improved legislation to support credit unions and their expansion throughout Scotland?You recommend that the Scottish Enterprise inclusive economy leadership group should be encouraged to insist on action plans for developing the social economy in LEC business plans. Were LECs consulted on that idea? If so, did they welcome it, and how will they take it forward?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 604125,
      "EditedText": "Unfortunately, the member of the team who considered those issues in particular is not here. I will have to do my best to answer your questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
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      "ID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 604126,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that you are not an expert. If there are questions that you are not able to answer, can you consult with one of the members of your action team, who may be able to give me some more in-depth information?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C604132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
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      "ID": 18296,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 604132,
      "EditedText": "May I ask a brief supplementary question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trevor Lakey (Scottish Social Inclusion Network): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 604137,
      "EditedText": "Certainly. The whole question of fragmentation came up time and time again, no matter the subject focus. I was part of the group which examined living costs. We considered food initiatives in particular. Members will see some examples in our report on them, although food initiatives are just one example of what is going on.We often saw that the funding regimes are quite keen to support individual, isolated projects rather than ask what they were part of. The most successful projects were part of something wider, perhaps a multi-centre project with money, advice, community transport and so on included. We are struggling most of all with small, isolated food projects, which were perceived to be falling between several stools. They were viewed as health projects by local authorities, who therefore looked to the health service for funding; they were seen as community projects by health authorities.It is not that everything should be a massive conglomerate, but that funders should consider the community infrastructure. We have tried to make that point in various ways. It is less glamorous to fund the bread-and-butter community infrastructures, such as community buildings, transport links, child care arrangements and so on. Without the basic backbone, all the smaller projects with the good ideas would flounder. Many of the recommendations centre around the idea of linking things together at the local level without removing community innovation.We are trying to improve links to welfare benefits and so on. There is a whole range of activity on welfare benefits in health care settings across the UK. One example from our work in Glasgow is the welfare benefits advice session, a half-day-a-week clinic in a general practice. In the past year alone, the clinic in Carntyne in the east end of Glasgow has generated £125,000 of reclaimed benefits for patients of what is a small practice.Active linking of initiatives can work. The health service is not traditionally seen as a place to get financial advice, but research shows that it is highly effective, because a large proportion of the population visit their GP or nurse. We give examples in our report of how good links can be achieved at grass-roots level, which gets new services to people who would not otherwise use them. There are resource implications, but even modest increases in funding for services such as citizens' advice and advice on money can make a major difference, especially if that is combined with putting such services in places where people will use them, publicising them and linking them together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 604139,
      "EditedText": "We hoped that our recommendation on the benefits pilot projects in the social inclusion partnerships would tackle that problem. We were aware that practice could vary. There is discretion. In some areas, people can access things more easily. Depending on what else is going on in an area—south Lanarkshire, for example—things may be pulled together more or less effectively. Your point is proper and we fully recognise it. In part, it goes back to what we said about ensuring that what is going on nationally meshes with what is going on locally and that national initiatives do not cut across local initiatives, making things more difficult. Everything must go with the grain—in one direction—otherwise time, money and energy are wasted. What is more, people's lives are undermined more than need be. We have tried to acknowledge the problem. We hope that the pilot projects will help to demonstrate how things can be made to work better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 604149,
      "EditedText": "I do not know what that noise is. Is it coming from the press? It usually does.Tommy, it is your pager."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C604143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Zealey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 604143,
      "EditedText": "We got a clear steer on that not from the insurance companies, but from the banks. Social responsibility needs to be sold as a way in which companies can grow their market. The problem with insurance companies is often that the minimum insurance that can be taken out represents a greater contents cover than many poor families want. By block buying for housing association tenancies—as the Scottish Federation for Housing Associations has done—one can ensure that one gets the highest cover at the best rates. Unit costs can therefore become more affordable.The banks are considering the same principle. If they remove the bells and whistles from current accounts and offer free-of-charges accounts to everybody in Scotland, the people who open those accounts will have the potential to grow and become significant earners if they make the transition from unemployment and poverty into employment. An analogy has been drawn with services for students—the banks may not make anything on such services at the time, but the longer term potential is significant. Similarly, sympathetic people in the utilities market may say, \"It's a competitive market and we need extra selling points to persuade people to buy heat, light and power from us. If they see that we are investing in the local community, they might be persuaded.\" For example, Scottish Power is involved in the learning centres and, in some areas, British Telecommunications plc offers direct sponsorship of third-sector projects. When people have a choice of organisations to buy from, they may choose to buy from a company that has shown some social responsibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 604145,
      "EditedText": "Some people looked uneasy on that point about the market, but we are not talking about a small number of people. The report indicates that a million people in Scotland would fall into this category—that is a fifth of the population. A market would exist, if it could be explored and supported."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 604148,
      "EditedText": "Not in such specific terms, but the general point about short-term funding and the need to scrabble around for funding was discussed. That is why we recommend the review of funding regimes, to ensure that the funding base is more durable, more transparent and longer term. We also heard the view that proceeding by way of pilots is not necessarily the best way forward. One comment we received was, \"We have had more pilots here than Heathrow.\"We need to move from piloting ideas to mainstreaming ideas. That is the thinking that underpins the thrust of social inclusion. We need to mainstream the funding, too. If we do not make that shift, we will just keep bumping up against the same problems. We can improve funding regimes for projects but we cannot get rid of the basic problem of how long the funding will last. If the project is good, it should be mainstreamed.I do not feel equipped to answer your first point about the privatisation of medical services. I do not think that we considered that at all—Interruption."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gill Stewart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 604152,
      "EditedText": "As I was saying, I do not have an answer to Mr Sheridan's first point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 604164,
      "EditedText": "I will draw this part of our meeting to a close. I thank the witnesses for their submission and for answering our questions in the way that they did.We will now discuss how we will pursue the information that we have heard. The witnesses are welcome to stay. As a way of introducing this general discussion, I assure the witnesses that many of the points that they have raised will not be lost on our work. How influential they are is another matter, but judging by the responses, members are taking a number of points very seriously. I have made a list of the various things that we might be able to pursue but, before I go through that, can I get a general response from members about how they wish to take this forward?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 604165,
      "EditedText": "There were four social inclusion network groups, plus the evaluation group, and there was a question mark over whether the evaluation group's report was a progress report or a final report. Given that the point of the inquiry is to look at poverty holistically, would not it make sense for this committee to hear evidence from the chairs of the other two groups, as well as the chair of the evaluation group, before it decides what it is going to do? If we get the chair of the evaluation group in we might be able to get to the bottom of whether it is producing another glossy report. We can then consider our follow-up in the light of all those reports taken together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 604167,
      "EditedText": "I will respond to that directly. We will have to return to the point about work load. I have a responsibility to ensure that we get through the timetable as it is laid out and I will keep to that. If the timetable slips, you will point out that we have not got to an item on the agenda. As you will have noticed, I have adopted different approaches throughout the lifetime of this committee to try to establish the best way of operating. I do that in the best interests of the committee. Our basic problem is that there is insufficient time to get through the work that we have determined that we should do. Later in the discussion, when people are asking whether we can do this or that by next week, please bear in mind the points that have been made. It is extremely difficult to get through business when people keep adding agenda items without appreciating that to deal with evidence properly we need more time. I would much prefer it if we had had one action team report per meeting—I am sure that you would have preferred it, too—but we have a cramped agenda. I am sympathetic to Alex Neil's suggestion that we get the other action team reports in. Fitting that into our timetable will be extremely difficult. We are all on a learning curve and we must take into account the varied issues that we have to deal with and the varied interests to which we must respond. Please bear that in mind when we discuss the timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 604170,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the Executive will make an announcement about measures and targets this year. We must be geared up for that. It will announce phase 1 of the strategy early in the new year, so we must be ready to respond to it. I recommend that the sub-group on social inclusion and the anti-poverty strategy considers the outcome of the discussion that we are having just now. It can schedule that we bring the other chairs of the action teams to a committee meeting as appropriate. The sub-group should keep a watching brief on these issues, follow up the points about evaluation, for example, which Fiona has flagged up, and report back to the committee. That is the only reasonable way of making progress. We will return to the work load and how we manage evidence and such like later.I take your point, Robert—I know that you mean well, but to add another meeting into the diary may create difficulties. I do not know whether all this is resolvable in the way that we perhaps think it is. We are taking on an enormous amount of work. I understand members' frustrations. I feel that I do not get a chance to ask rigorous questions myself—I feel disfranchised by that. Please bear in mind the issues about the work load. We must be rational about that. A number of big issues emerged from the evidence that we have received; the sub-group must examine them. One is funding—we have a role in scrutinising the funding strategy for Scotland, which has been mentioned time and again in all the evidence that we have heard. We must listen to views on that and represent those views at a Scottish level.We are considering homelessness—John McAllion is our reporter on that, and we must ensure that youth homelessness and the evidence that witnesses have presented to us is dealt with.On the drugs issue, the witnesses from the Scottish social inclusion network will be able to tell by Keith Raffan's enthusiasm for their perspective that he will certainly pursue the matter. We have started an inquiry, which will address the issues that the witnesses mentioned. We must ensure that the sub-group pays attention to the work and training issues. There is a range of issues about benefits, which we must comment on and develop ideas about. Again, I remit that to the sub-group, but we will bring it back to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 604171,
      "EditedText": "I think that it was Paul Zealey who said that the subject of welfare and benefits comes up time and again. I suggest that the sub-group considers inviting the Chancellor of the Exchequer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 604172,
      "EditedText": "You suggest that we invite a Government minister at every meeting, Alex."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ID": 18296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 604181,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I am sure that Alex will bring the issue that he raised to our attention in future. We will refer it to the social inclusion sub-committee. I will ensure that everything that we have just discussed is referred to that sub-committee.Once again, I thank the witnesses. They are welcome to stay, but may leave if they wish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 604193,
      "EditedText": "You are confused by the confusion? If they have missed meetings, members should read the Official Report to ensure that they keep up with the business of the committee. That is important, because we have returned to the same issue—who is doing what—again and again. However, there is a sense of direction to what we are doing.On Lloyd Quinan's point, we must decide whether to establish a sub-group or a sub-committee on the anti-poverty work. The group was deliberately kept informal, and I remind members that it was a committee decision to do that. We have therefore been implementing a committee decision. If we decide to make it more formal, we have to go through the procedures of the Parliamentary Bureau. That will take some time. I am not averse to making it formal—I would be sympathetic towards that idea, because anti-poverty work is a substantial part of the work of the group. Making the group formal will change the nature of decisions that we have already made. In light of what we have said about pursuing the evaluation report and such like, it would be a great pity if the group stopped working. There is such a lot to be done, as we know.I feel that the membership of the sub-group should stay the same and that it should continue working. We should raise with the Parliamentary Bureau the possibility of setting up a sub-committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 604194,
      "EditedText": "Margaret, I think that we are getting all confused on this. There are two issues here. One is the status of the sub-committee, which, as you rightly say, we agreed should be informal, at this stage anyway. We made it informal because it had a specific remit, which was not to address the issues of anti-poverty and social inclusion, but to come back to this committee with suggestions on a remit, work plan, time scale and modus operandi for dealing with those issues. It has not yet come back to the committee. I suggest that the sub-group has at least one more meeting and then comes back to the committee having fulfilled its original remit. That would be the appropriate stage at which to decide whether the committee wants to delegate responsibility to a formal sub-committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 604195,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a positive point, if I can. It is all very well to say that we can plough through the Official Report—I take your point—but we still have five reports to get through. Let us be realistic.There seem to be two routes—the reporters route and the sub-committee route. Sooner or later we will have to rationalise this. I quite like the idea of having reporters for different issues—one on drugs, one on housing, one on the voluntary sector and one on social inclusion. When we get their reports—whether that happens fortnightly or whatever—it would help to have bullet points on a sheet that showed where they had got to. That would help to keep us abreast of what they are doing, and would be in their interests too.I feel that we are undertaking too many inquiries at one time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C604197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 604197,
      "EditedText": "At last week's meeting, I sought clarification from other members on my role as reporter. When I was appointed as reporter, I was advocating that we should set up a sub-group on the voluntary sector. After a lengthy discussion, the committee agreed unanimously that I had talked myself into the position of reporter on the voluntary sector. It is important that we do not fight over whether we are to have reporters or sub-groups. The committee has made the decision to appoint me as its reporter on the voluntary sector and it should concentrate on defining my role so that I can get on with the work. My role as a reporter is to ensure that issues that are important to the voluntary sector, including those that have been raised at previous committee meetings, are kept on the agenda, and to liaise between the committee and voluntary and community groups around Scotland. I can report to the committee, but I need a clear definition of what my role is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 604201,
      "EditedText": "Never."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 604202,
      "EditedText": "I know that Alex would not.We must ensure that that item is timetabled properly. That is one of the difficulties: we are not timetabling properly. Can we finally agree and stick to this agreement—I am trying to remember Lloyd's words—that at the next meeting we will circulate a paper that details the role of the reporters and their work load? Perhaps we can include a recommended time scale for reviewing the role of the reporter and the work they have done, the work of the sub-committee—sub-group, ad hoc group, or whatever we are calling it—and what action we want to take. Members should bear in mind that, at the next meeting, we will have to dedicate some time to discussing that. They should remember that when I cut their questions short and they get agitated with me.Do members want to have any further discussion on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 18297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 18297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 604205,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 604206,
      "EditedText": "The next item overlaps with item 5 on the agenda, which largely concerns the timing of our work on the bill. I invite members to address the two items together, as they are part of the same discussion.The Local Government Committee has indicated that it wants to be involved in the evidence session on the bill. I attended a meeting of the Parliamentary Bureau yesterday. Other members who were there will verify that I argued vehemently that we are concerned about our work load. I also stressed that we are keen to create time to scrutinise the bill, despite what we have said about our work load. One of our problems is that we must fit this work in. However, we are keen to do so.I have had brief discussions with Roseanna Cunningham, the convener of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, and the clerks of our two committees have liaised with each other, so Martin Verity may want to comment on this as well. We briefly agreed on two key points. First, our committees will share the evidence. The evidence will be distributed to all committees, and the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and this committee will share evidence to achieve a balanced perspective on the cases for and against the bill. Secondly, the Parliamentary Bureau must provide an indicative timetable. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee needs a report from us at the beginning of February, so our work must be concluded by January. That is what we must understand today. We must conclude our hearings and finalise our view by January, so that our conclusions can be passed on to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee.Do members have any general comments on that? We can address specific issues as we proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C604209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 604209,
      "EditedText": "Could I suggest that the background to the bill is quite important. The original proposal was submitted in August, and was resubmitted—after various bits of advice—in September. We had a great many problems; people not a million miles from me—Mike, in particular—will understand the difficulties surrounding members' bills. Members have been fighting to try to get the bill discussed as early as possible. As members will know, the committee to which the bill was referred—the Justice and Home Affairs Committee—is dealing with two pieces of Executive legislation, inquiries into domestic violence and the Law Society, and other matters to do with legal aid. Last Thursday, the clerk to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee contacted to me to say that the committee was determined to make time to hear evidence on the bill as soon as possible. He said that the committee will hear evidence on 17 November, from 9.30 to 12.30 and again on 23 November, and that it would write its report by mid-December. That would allow the stage 1 debate—aside from obstruction by the bureau—to be heard in the earliest parliamentary meetings in January. I was happy with that arrangement, although I had hoped that we would have got further with the bill before the end of the year. The timetable has slipped. I am unhappy about the suggestion that the timetable should slip again, to the end of February or the beginning of March.I appeal to you, Margaret, to set in train the original timetable, which was that a stage 1 committee report would be submitted by December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 604210,
      "EditedText": "I will take Keith, Fiona, John and then Karen. We need to hurry up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18298,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 604216,
      "EditedText": "No, I did not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 604223,
      "EditedText": "With all due respect, that is not the point. We can swap certain things round—that is not changing the timetable, as such. Given the range of organisations that want to give evidence on warrant sales, I do not think that two evidence-taking sessions and one meeting to decide on our view are enough. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee can take its own view. At least 20 organisations want to submit evidence, and I do not have the time to do the reading that is required, to ensure that we cover all the angles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C604228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 604228,
      "EditedText": "I support what you were saying, Margaret. Like most of us in the Parliament, I am sympathetic to the bill. However, as Karen said, we have to do our job properly and take the evidence.Earlier somebody made the throwaway remark that they saw the hand of the Executive in the timetabling of the bill. I do not think that the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee should allow its timetable to be dictated by that of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. It might think that it can take the evidence in a couple of meetings, but we have to take the evidence as we see fit, so that at the end of the day we arrive at a proper decision. We have waited this long for the bill to come before Parliament, and I cannot see a few weeks making much difference.About 15 minutes ago, we agreed how important it was to stick to a timetable. If we change that now, anyone who reads the Official Report of our meeting will think that we are making fools of ourselves. I realise that there will be occasions when timetables will have to change to deal with emergencies, but I do not think that this is one of them. We need this amount of time to get good and proper legislation through the Parliament. We would be doing ourselves a disservice if we tried to rush it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C604235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 604235,
      "EditedText": "It seems unfortunate that you have been accused of undermining the process because you wanted more meetings. However, the fact that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee thinks that it can deal with the matter in two meetings does not mean that its investigation will be any less detailed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 604229,
      "EditedText": "There is a reasonable way out of this. Three committees are involved: the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will hold two evidence-taking sessions; we have already agreed to three; and the Local Government Committee must be having a minimum of one. That makes a total of six meetings, which means that a minimum of 12 to 14 hours will be spent on the bill. That must equal if not surpass the average time spent in consideration of a bill. There is no question of the Parliament as a whole not properly considering the implications of the bill.I think that I am right in saying that there is agreement among the conveners of the three committees involved that there will be no duplication or overlap: anyone who gives evidence to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, for example, will not give evidence to the other two committees. That would be an absurd waste of time. We have already scheduled three evidence sessions. Given that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the Local Government Committee are also considering the bill, I would have thought that three evidence sessions would be adequate for this committee. If we agreed on that, the only change to our planned schedule that would be needed would be to swap round the meetings that were set aside for dealing with housing stock transfer and warrant sales respectively. John McAllion and Fiona Hyslop indicated that that would be fine. We would then take warrant sales a week earlier and housing stock transfers a week later.That fairly minor adjustment to our planned schedule would allow us to complete our work on the bill in December in tandem with the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the Local Government Committee. That would solve the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 604230,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that will solve the problem. I am constantly being reminded that we do not have enough time to ask witnesses follow-up questions. Keith Raffan did that again today. It would be difficult to find two hours for the thorough questioning that Keith expects. As Roseanna Cunningham said at the Justice and Home Affairs Committee yesterday, members will also be required to read the Official Report of proceedings in other committees for an overall view of the bill. Substantial work has still to be done; committee members are underestimating the work involved.I want to suggest a compromise. Perhaps we should swap consideration of the bill with our consideration of housing. Loth as I am to make the change, in that way we would recognise that we must shift our timetable slightly. If we had one or two meetings in January—depending on the range of organisations that sent in submissions—we could try to get our report to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee by the third week of January. As it is almost 12.30 pm, I need the committee's quick views on the issue. Does the committee agree to my proposal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C604231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 604231,
      "EditedText": "Margaret, you talked about one or two meetings in January, depending on submissions. The deadline for submissions has passed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C604233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 604233,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, Margaret, but you interrupted me in the middle of making a point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 604236,
      "EditedText": "That is the view of that committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 604242,
      "EditedText": "I want to propose an amendment that three sessions will be enough and that we can complete our work in December. We will then be able to submit our report to the Justice and Home Affairs as the lead committee. If we do otherwise, the lead committee will be ahead of us in the work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 604251,
      "EditedText": "No, but John's compromise—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 604252,
      "EditedText": "Order. It is absurd that at this stage in the committee we are arguing about two weeks in January. My proposal is that we give ourselves space in January to formulate a view to report to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3354
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 18298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 604256,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2350933+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 418967,
      "EditedText": "I will write to you, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 418773,
      "EditedText": "My point has been made by Kate; during an informal briefing, the Law Society of Scotland also mentioned its concerns about the definition of nearest relative. Does the bill include provision for an interim appointment for cases where there is conflicting input from various parties? Is there a case for that when intervention has to be made fairly urgently?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 418829,
      "EditedText": "Earlier I raised the question of interim orders. In your submission, you comment that the bill\"does not appear to make provision for real emergencies which require very urgent intervention.\"I have already referred to that twice. In one case in which I was involved, we had to go back to the courts constantly. What would you like to see here?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 418887,
      "EditedText": "I will go for the Legal Aid Board anytime on any subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 418930,
      "EditedText": "I think so. They concern financial limits and other important things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11201,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11201,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 418738,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:07"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Micheline Brannan (Scottish Executive Justice Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 418740,
      "EditedText": "I will condense it as best as I can. I have overall responsibility for the bill,  Kay Barton is the bill team manager and Alan Williams is our legal adviser. The other Scottish Executive colleagues who are here are specialists in the area of care establishment and medical matters and, with permission, I will refer questions on those subjects to them.You already have copies of the bill. The substantial memorandums that were provided with it explain its contents in great detail. We are here to answer any supplementary questions that may arise out of the memorandums. I stress that since the Scottish Law Commission started its deliberations in 1991, the bill has been subject to wide consultation. We believe that there is wide support for the bill as it stands, subject to various detailed comments.I also stress that the bill is based on general principles that govern anything done for an adult under its provisions. Those are stated explicitly in section 1 of the bill and underlie the other provisions. My colleagues and I will be happy to explain any detailed points that members of the committee would like to have clarified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 418742,
      "EditedText": "If there is an absolute silence—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418743",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 418743,
      "EditedText": "Phil will always fill it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 418747,
      "EditedText": "Can we, therefore, assure ENABLE that it should not continue to be concerned about the definition that will be retained from the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 418749,
      "EditedText": "I have a more general question, which relates to points raised by ENABLE and the Mental Welfare Commission, about the interaction of this bill and the Millan committee's review of mental health. What consideration was given to the Millan committee when this bill was being drawn up? How will the decisions of the Millan committee impact on this bill? There might be two things going on that are more conjoined than seems at first to be the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 418751,
      "EditedText": "As Roseanna said, we have had a great number of submissions. I want to ask specifically about nutrition and hydration, which are covered in section 44. The Society for the Protection of Unborn Children has sent us a submission, in which it claims that the effect of subsection (2) would be to allow doctors to withdraw nutrition and hydration by assisted means for patients who are not dying, with the express intention of bringing about their death."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Towers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 418759,
      "EditedText": "This is authorising carrying out of treatment under this provision. It allows them to carry out that treatment. The provision does not allow them to not carry that out; it is authorising them to carry it out. It is a more positive approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 418761,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is for clarification. Any fears that nursing care might be terminated are unfounded. There is a duty of care on the medical profession to provide what is necessary for the comfort and sustenance of patients in circumstances such as cases of terminal illness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Towers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 418765,
      "EditedText": "As a lawyer, I would certainly not say that one could argue for different constructions. The person who is ultimately responsible for the medical treatment will be the medical practitioner. He will authorise treatment by the various other elements of the care team. It will not be open to a nurse to decide that a patient should not be given nutrition and hydration. No additional door is being opened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Barton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 418767,
      "EditedText": "The bill says a number of things about consulting everyone with an interest before decisions are made or actions are taken on behalf of someone who does not have the capacity to decide for themselves.The bill uses the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 definition of nearest relative. The act identifies a sequence of people whose views are to be considered. That includes the spouse and can include someone who lives with the adult as though they are husband and wife. Our advice is that the definition does not include a same-sex partner. There are other ways in which the bill will ensure that those who are close to the adult and who are involved in looking after them have their views taken into account—their views will be given equal status to the views of the nearest relative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 418780,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify my understanding of section 44. On subsection (1), the explanatory memorandum states:\"The general authority to treat will extend to the medical practitioner assessing capacity, and to any person acting under the instructions of that medical practitioner.\"The memorandum states that the effect of subsection (2)\"will be to enable doctors, nurses, dentists, and others to seek to improve the health of adult patients with incapacity by giving treatment without fear of legal challenge.\"Let us imagine that I am a nurse. I am treating someone under the instructions of the medical practitioner, but I decide to do something in addition. If I do something in addition without seeking the authority of the medical practitioner, am I then open to legal challenge? That could be an interpretation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Towers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 418781,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the intention behind the legislation would be to protect any nurse or other medical person who acted beyond the instructions that they had been given on an individual's care. That would also be the common law position. Currently, any nurse would have the protection of saying, \"I was doing what the doctor was telling me.\" Technically, that would not prevent somebody from suing the doctor and the nurse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 418784,
      "EditedText": "I am out of sequence. I am still thinking about the point that Tricia Marwick made on section 44. I did not understand why you felt it a good idea to include subsection (2)—the definition—at all. Experience teaches that, in legislation, small is beautiful. When definitions are included, that gives lawyers an opportunity to play games with them. You have conceded the possibility of another argument—any lawyer will concede that. Responsible people have been writing in with their perception of other arguments. Why were you against leaving subsection (1) as it was, on the commonsense basis? Subsection (2) defines medical treatment, but medical treatment is surely what people do to look after the welfare of other people, including giving them water, air and whatever else is needed. A legal definition creates words for people to play with, so why bother with it at all?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 418786,
      "EditedText": "Would you accept that it would not do a huge despite to the bill not to include the definition? That would avoid the minefield but not undermine the bill's integrity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward (Law Society of Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 418794,
      "EditedText": "I outlined the background when I came to the committee before and I am happy to take questions now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 418795,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any questions to put to Adrian Ward, who is here in two capacities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 418797,
      "EditedText": "You have heard us talking about the definition of medical treatment and whether it should include details. Do you have a view on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 418799,
      "EditedText": "The problem with the present law is the doubt about whether some circumstances are not covered by those criteria. Consent is obvious: either it is given or it is not. However, there is doubt about the extent of the principle of necessity. Case law in England gives a broad interpretation of necessity, but England has no equivalent of our tutors dative who can be given authority to give medical consent for the treatment of another adult—that is the only form of proxy consent that is authorised at present.There is concern about whether treatment that is clearly not necessary to preserve life—such as dental treatment and optical treatment—is covered. If the owners of a care home ask a dentist to inspect the teeth of a person who cannot make a decision, there would be a question about whether that was authorised by law. To the best of my belief, all the interest groups that we have consulted on the matter—and the alliance has been careful to consult a broad range of opinion—believe that we need an additional ground of authority to cover that situation. Section 44 makes it clear that that would be in addition to the other forms of authorisation. The four that I have listed will still stand, but we need an additional statutory authority. I expect that it will cover routine things and will not be necessary in a case of obvious necessity, such as when someone has been knocked down by a car.There is a flaw in section 44. At the moment, it differs from the guidance, as it allows \"any person who is responsible\"to give certification. I understood, from the guidance, that it was intended that only a medical practitioner would be able to do that. The first sentence should specify that certification should be made by a medical practitioner; as drafted, it implies that it could be done by someone who may not even be qualified—a manager could be responsible for treatment. Once authority has been given, it is important to signal that it covers a broad range of things, such as going to the optician or the dentist. I have heard the comments about subsection (2). My concern is that, if it was taken out, there could be doubt as to whether something outwith the fringes of care were covered. It is important that the provision is broad and covers things that involve care rather than treatment. Some legal systems make a clear division between the two—French law does, for example—but ours does not: care and treatment merge into each other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 418812,
      "EditedText": "I want to follow up a point that I did not fully understand. When you were asked about the bill's relationship with the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984, you said that different definitions might be appropriate. The bill's definition of incapable includes the two thresholds by reason of mental disorder, but mental disorder is then simply defined under the terms of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. The bill also contains an odd bit about promiscuity and sexual deviancy, with which I will not burden you. If you do not want the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 definition of mental disorder in the bill, how would you want mental disorder defined?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 418809,
      "EditedText": "We have already experienced such a pattern under section 94 of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984, which gives hospitals the ability to manage patients' funds. This provision of the bill widens and updates that measure to allow a form of management to be available in other settings.Although I am not aware of any substantial body of complaint—apart from that from the Mental Welfare Commission—about whether the existing system uses an individual's money to pay for things that the NHS should be paying for, there could be a problem there. However, I have seen many cases where people's money has accumulated and no one has been able to get to grips with the issue of whether that money could be used to their benefit. It is a question of balance. Although we need the controls, we have to get away from a situation where people's money is not being spent for their benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 418813,
      "EditedText": "Why are we not happy with that definition? Mental disorder is defined in the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 as\"mental illness or mental handicap however caused or manifested.\"It was defined in that way until very recently. This Parliament has now added the qualification that the definition includes personality disorder. I have to say in passing that I have never heard anybody else suggest that personality disorder is a mental illness. A Westminster Government paper published in July explicitly stated that personality disorder is not a mental illness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 418817,
      "EditedText": "If we are talking about the initial gateway into the legislation, there are—as a previous witness said—two levels. The first is: are you potentially in this jurisdiction at all? We need to be careful that we do not exclude anybody, such as those with acquired brain damage. We need a broad definition. Secondly, once we are in, we have to be careful, and we must have tight general principles. If people are potentially within the jurisdiction, will we, for example, make things better for them if we apply a particular remedy? Is it the minimum necessary intervention? Those are the two levels of decisions. It would be a great shame for the legislation to go on the statute book with any doubts as to whether the people whom we all think ought to be covered—for example, someone who had brain damage in a road accident at the age of 20 and cannot make financial decisions—are potentially within the jurisdiction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 418825,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I will not go through them, but they are all based on actual cases. Some are based on many cases of a similar nature."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 418826,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Mr Ward. You are welcome to stay, if you can find a spare seat.I ask Dr James Dyer and George Kappler to come forward. They are, respectively, the director and the social work officer of the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland.I welcome Dr Dyer and Mr Kappler. You have been listening to the evidence that has been given so far, and you may anticipate what some of the questions will be. I would like to open the discussion by asking you to comment specifically on the issue that I raised—the concern that you expressed in your written submission about the possible conflict of interests caused by health boards overseeing the management of these funds. You make some specific comments based on information of which the Mental Welfare Commission is aware."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 418833,
      "EditedText": "We started off by being fairly firmly in favour of the sheriff court system, but we now have a more open view. The Millan committee is discussing what the appropriate procedures should be in relation to new mental health legislation. I am a member of the Millan committee, but am not speaking in that capacity today. It will examine the merits of the sheriff court versus a new tribunal system. An argument in favour of a tribunal system is that there could be more expertise about medical and welfare matters than is available under the sheriff court system. One member of a three-person tribunal could have such professional expertise, which could be immediately available.Both sheriff courts and tribunals have pros and cons. We have simply said in our submission that it is worth considering those options, but we do not have a fixed view on which is preferable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 418835,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We noted that the financial memorandum quotes figures for updating our computer system and adding to our staff to enable us to cope with the fairly extensive extra responsibilities that the bill gives us, but we are not aware of any consultation taking place prior to arriving at those figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 418837,
      "EditedText": "Can I express a willingness to discuss with the Executive a costing of the extra work, so that an accurate figure can calculated? We are very strained at present as our work is statutorily determined under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984, and our work load keeps going up. Despite community care, detentions keep going up. Requests for review of detentions are going up disproportionately to detentions—a welcome form of user empowerment—and other aspects of our work are increasing. We are seeking extra funds to keep that work going at present. We would certainly need significant extra funds to meet the new responsibilities in the legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 418838,
      "EditedText": "We have heard evidence on some of the controversial aspects of the bill concerning medical treatment. Can you briefly outline the benefits and dangers of authorising medical treatment without a patient's consent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 418843,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that there are some very vigilant and vocal organisations with strong views about that. However, it is clear to us that the purpose of the bill is to give a statutory authority for treatment, with various safeguards for more controversial or irreversible treatments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 418845,
      "EditedText": "I imagine that it would, although that is not within the expertise of the Mental Welfare Commission.I would like to comment on Mr Jackson's question about definition. It is necessary to give some guidance as to the definition of medical treatment—to know whether it is a narrow definition or a broad one. Without such guidance, there would be endless arguments in relation to individual cases. We need to know whether it means what people often think about, such as pills and surgical operations, or wider matters, such as nursing care. Such issues have been relevant in appeals against detention under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. In the cases of Alexander Reid and Noel Ruddle, the breadth of the definition of treatment was crucial.If there were no guidance, the definition would have to be arrived at through individual court cases. I am not necessarily saying that I am satisfied with the current guidance, because it goes part of the way to being more specific, without going the whole way. It mentions surgical and medical treatment, for example, but does not mention psychiatric or psychological treatment. Furthermore, it does not specifically mention investigations to aid diagnosis, or blood tests to check the safety of medication—although that could conceivably come under procedure in section 44(2)(c). If the definition is to be explicit, it should be more explicit; if it is not to be explicit, it should be less explicit, but accompanied by some form of guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 418847,
      "EditedText": "I understand and am sympathetic to the argument about making that a battleground. On the other hand, there is an argument that there could be uncertainty about whether feeding and giving water to someone is treatment. I can conceive of that being argued in court."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 418850,
      "EditedText": "I was sympathetic to Christine Grahame's view that the sheriff should deal with that. It seems right to me that that should be a judicial decision. You have mentioned the other side of the coin—that there could be technical arguments. Is this a case for procedure being put into the law of Scotland—and this is rarely done—to give a sheriff an assessor for such purposes? Would there be value in a sheriff having technical help?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 418852,
      "EditedText": "I am slightly confused by the answer given in response to Pauline McNeill's question. Did I understand correctly that what was said was that treatment could be withdrawn when there was no obvious benefit to the person receiving it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 418856,
      "EditedText": "How is benefit to be assessed in those circumstances?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 418857,
      "EditedText": "That would be the judgment of the person who could offer the treatment. If there were controversy, it would be necessary to take the case to the courts, so that a decision could be made there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418858",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 418858,
      "EditedText": "Do you agree that feeding and hydration would always benefit a patient?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418860",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 418860,
      "EditedText": "You said that you are not an expert on the whole subject of medical treatment, but it strikes me that some of the evidence that we have heard today suggests that there are implications for the whole medical profession.I know a wee bit about the nursing profession; in my view, it is clear that it is within the duties and legal responsibilities of any nurse to include sustenance and so on in the provision of care. That is part of the professional code of conduct of nurses. If we were to put 100 nurses in front of the committee, they would all say that. The demarcation between doctors and nurses is, in reality, completely clear.You said earlier that the medical practitioner would decide what intervention would be required, and whether the matter would be referred to court. Do you think that there are legal implications for the medical profession?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418863",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 418863,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Adrian Ward's comments. The purpose of the bill is to provide a statutory authority for treatment—it is about giving treatment—and it does not contain sections that are concerned with withdrawing or withholding treatment. The basic principle is that treatment should be for the benefit of the person. It could be argued, in certain drastic situations, that the maintenance, with food and hydration, of a person's existence is not to that person's benefit, as they have no prospect of recovery. An intervention, under the bill, might not be appropriate in such a situation. However, in discussing such matters, I am straying beyond the remit of the Mental Welfare Commission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418864",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 143
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 418864,
      "EditedText": "Do members want to raise any other points or questions?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418869",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 418869,
      "EditedText": "On another day?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418872",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 418872,
      "EditedText": "Members have no more questions specifically for the Mental Welfare Commission. Therefore, our witnesses may raise specific issues with us, although that might prompt more questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418875",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 418875,
      "EditedText": "Do you view that as a potential burden on individuals?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418877",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 418877,
      "EditedText": "Does that raise any further questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 418878,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying, Mr Kappler, that the period is too long?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418881",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Kappler: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 418881,
      "EditedText": "For people whose incapacity is related to mental disorder, there is an argument that the period should remain the same. To do otherwise would be to erode the rights that they have, especially for those who are in guardianship under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. To change the period would be to move the goalposts quite considerably for people with the same condition for whom guardianship will be used in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418882",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
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      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 418882,
      "EditedText": "What time scale would you suggest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418883",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Kappler: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 418883,
      "EditedText": "We have suggested both six- monthly and yearly renewals, as we have at present. Additional safeguards are built into the legislation, which are quite good, such as renewals being done not by filling in forms, but by reaffirming that the grounds exist by going back to the sheriff court. That is a positive move. There might be a trade-off, to some extent, with the periods for which guardianship is approved and can be renewed. As it stands, the difference in the length of the period is quite dramatic for a number of people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
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      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Kappler: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 418889,
      "EditedText": "We are not clear about the bill's proposals. In existing mental health legislation, it is clear that someone can appeal against the decision to renew guardianship once during the period of renewal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 418895,
      "EditedText": "Would you make it an annual period?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 418899,
      "EditedText": "They are incapable through mental disorder and are in a vulnerable position where their control over their finances is taken away as well as, perhaps, control over where they live. It is important that the arguments for such action are explored as fully as possible and the justification for it tested. Therefore, such people need legal representation and, if they are of modest means, they may be inhibited from obtaining adequate legal representation if they have to pay for it.The situation has not been brought about through their actions. In fact, some of those people are likely to be incapable of forming a view as to whether to instruct legal representation because of their incapacity. It seems right to remove any such inhibition by making legal aid available to everyone, at least for advice by way of representation, so that they can be legally represented in these important matters without the cost falling on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 418906,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on Phil's point about the role of committee members in the stage 1 debate. Phil is quite right about the difference between a stage 1 debate and a second reading. A second reading debate in the House of Commons provides members with an opportunity to express specific interests and gives an indication of what the standing committee's composition will be. I cannot say to people on this committee that the advice is for them not to speak in the debate, because there is a countervailing argument that that would mean the people with most to contribute to the debate standing back from it.Individual members will have to make a judgment. Presumably, within members' parliamentary groups there will be discussions about who should participate, and groups may arrive at different views. I do not want to bar those people who have done most work on the bill and have most to contribute from making points in debate. It may be that committee members will be able to focus their points more clearly and take less time than they otherwise would take."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 418908,
      "EditedText": "This is a judgment that members will have to make. Let us not forget that the Health and Community Care Committee has a big input into this bill, and that many members of that committee with specific expertise will want to comment. We could flag up that a significant number of us still have concerns about medical aspects of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 418911,
      "EditedText": "We have heard a lot of evidence over two days. I still have questions about things in the bill on which I have an open mind. If I have an open mind about those points because of the evidence that I have heard, I am sure that that will be replicated around the chamber. Ultimately, we are all legislators in the chamber and we must hear all the evidence to decide on the right thing to do. At the moment, there are eight specific points that I am concerned about, but on which I am not coming down on one side or the other. Because of that, we must ensure that we get this right. We have heard that this is an important piece of legislation. There is a demand for it, and it will be good legislation if we get it right. We need to make absolutely certain of ironing out the detail; otherwise, it could all go wrong. My feeling is that this committee needs to identify the areas of agreement where they exist and a list of all the outstanding matters that need resolved. We should flag up our concerns, whatever that list turns out to be, and at the earliest possible time, so that other members can consider their view. That is our role. The Health and Community Care Committee has perhaps paid more attention to the bill, because it is their work, but I am sure that everyone else is very busy with other committee work. Even if we have a list of 15 areas—I have eight, so if other people have more—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 418915,
      "EditedText": "My first point is about broadening the definition of mental disorder to include brain damage and so on, as proposed by the alliance. We should clear up the issue as to whether the bill legalises euthanasia and the withdrawal of treatment. We should ensure that the bill is clear. As Christine and Kate have said, the nearest relative is not a modern approach, and I want to examine that issue in detail. We should examine whether having a different definition from the Millan commission is desirable.We should consider the training of sheriffs, designated sheriffs and courts versus tribunals. We should examine the role of health boards and trusts in relation to patient's funds. On authority to treat, Gordon made the point as to whether section 44(2)(c) can be merged with subsection 44(2)(b). We should also consider the point that the commission made about access to legal representation without being means-tested for legal aid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 418916,
      "EditedText": "That is probably a fair summary of the concerns that many members have. We might be more unanimous in our concerns, at this stage, than we thought.That has been useful. Will members of the Scottish Executive team now come back up for a few minutes, so that they can comment on some of the issues that have been raised? We hope to move on to the next item on the agenda soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 418918,
      "EditedText": "The points that we were implicitly invited to comment on were: what to do about emergency situations; rules of court; guardian of last resort; and appeal against renewal of guardianship. Colleagues may want to mention others.On emergency situations, we do not have a perfect answer yet. It relates to rules of court, which I will now cover. In terms of the summary application, there will be new rules of court as to how this is to be done. The Sheriff Court Rules Council has already had one meeting. It is a consultative body, which draws up draft rules and consults on those. Everybody who has been involved in the consultation process about the bill will have the opportunity to be involved in considering the rules of court as well.I do not know whether the rules of court can prescribe special procedures for emergency situations. If so, they can be covered in that way. If that is not the case, there is the Law Commission's report on vulnerable adults. I must confess that the Scottish Executive has not had the opportunity to take stock of that report and decide how to take it forward. We will examine it now in the context of the emergency situation. We do not think that there are other existing statutory provisions that deal with adults with incapacity in emergency situations to which we can refer members. We will examine that again.On the issue of guardian of last resort, we recognise that the Scottish Law Commission recommended that the public guardian should be available as guardian of last resort. The policy memorandum discusses in detail why we have departed from that, as did the white paper \"Making the Right Moves\". There are a number of reasons why we do not want to go down that route. One is that where there is only a small estate, the public guardian would either have to manage that estate at public expense or withdraw fees from it. We could get into the situation that we are in with curators bonis at the moment and a small estate could be exhausted by charges being levied.Another reason is that we believe that the bill already provides a degree of flexibility with regard to the measures that can be taken in cases where a person's funds are limited; for example, permission may be sought to withdraw money from the person's bank account—which would be supervised by the public guardian—or to obtain an intervention order from a sheriff. There is the possibility also that, if a person with limited means foresaw their own incapacity, they could appoint a continuing attorney with financial powers at a suitable stage. So other measures are available to deal with modest estates, which we hope will mean that there will be little need for a guardian of last resort as envisaged by the Scottish Law Commission; therefore we have not introduced that measure.On the matter of appeals against the renewal of guardianship, the bill places no limit on the number of times that a person can appeal against a guardianship order that was made for an indefinite period. I presume that someone would take legal advice on behalf of the person who is the subject of the order as to whether it was worth appealing on a regular basis, but they could appeal more than once, unlike the situation under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Liz Lewis (Scottish Executive Justice Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 418924,
      "EditedText": "As you will be aware, there are statutory controls in section 39 of the bill over what can be managed: heritable property, stocks and shares cannot be managed. The management of funds must be for the benefit of the resident. I wish to draw to your attention section 39(1)(h) of the bill, which prohibits the manager from spending a resident's money on items or services that should be provided as part of a normal service. That should address some of the concerns that were raised.Finally, the managers are liable for any losses as a result of any breach of duty or misuse of funds, and they must make provisions to indemnify residents for that. We feel that that package of provisions introduces considerably more safeguards than exist under the present system to protect residents in long-stay hospitals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 418925,
      "EditedText": "That concludes our discussion on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. I have allowed two brief sessions for us to discuss other items. I will allow a maximum of 15 minutes—we do not need to use the whole 15 minutes—to discuss the general issue of prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 418929,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could ask what stage the regulations are at and for financial information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 418932,
      "EditedText": "We have a maximum of 15 minutes for this item on Scottish prisons. It was on last week's agenda, but the evidence session on the Carbeth hutters was much more involved than we expected, so we did not reach the item on prisons. It was never certain that we would discuss prisons—the item was included as prisons will be a long-running issue for the committee, and there had been an announcement about a budget cut of £13 million, followed by a great deal of speculation as to the impact of that shortfall. I suspect that the announcement resulted in many local press releases, seeking assurances that the local prison would not close down. Since then, I have been advised—although I have not been able to confirm this—that at the Scottish Executive Cabinet briefing yesterday, references were made to a consideration of the way in which young offenders are dealt with. As a result of our interest in prisons, the committee is considering taking on the issues of young offenders and women offenders. My understanding is that there is a steer that the treatment of young offenders is to move away from custody and towards non-custodial disposals. That would be in keeping with the direction in which things have been moving in Scotland over a period of years, and obviously it impacts on our discussions on prisons over the longer term. I want to allow the committee a brief opportunity to discuss some of the issues arising from the £13 million budget cut and in respect of young offenders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 418935,
      "EditedText": "I advise the committee that I have seen, and have a copy of, the internal Scottish Prison Service document that was sent round after the announcement of the £13 million reduction. It takes the form of three pages of hypothetical questions and answers and is on the basis that there will now be an increase in overcrowding. Assurances are given that the Scottish Prison Service will be able to handle overcrowding.I will ensure that copies of the document are circulated to all members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 418937,
      "EditedText": "Phil Gallie made the point that we were satisfied that overcrowding was not an issue, because of the opening of the prison in Kilmarnock, and that the key issue was drugs in prisons. We have an overwhelming responsibility to ask the Executive about that issue. It is not acceptable if the committee is not satisfied, so we might go back to the issue of overcrowding.The question of the rehabilitation of offenders in institutions and what we do with people in prison has never genuinely been considered. We have an opportunity to examine progressive ways of dealing with people in prison—I agree that there should be a separate strategy for young offenders, and I agree with what is being done there. The committee must not lose sight of the issue of rehabilitation.I do not know how we came to decide that we would consider prisons. The committee has a lot of work. I know that this will overburden us, but I do not think that we can let it go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 418938,
      "EditedText": "That is why it is on the agenda today. Whatever else we do, I want us to keep visiting the issue.Pauline McNeill is right. It is vital that you all see copies of the internal Scottish Prison Service document, as it specifically refers to an expectation of overcrowding as a result of the budget reduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 418947,
      "EditedText": "We need clarification, as we are all operating on the basis of newspaper reports that gave us nothing more than a figure, followed by a great deal of speculation. It is difficult to know whether that speculation is informed.I suggest that we write directly to Tony Cameron, the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service, requesting clarification on where the £13 million came from, what the money was originally to have been spent on, what the position is now, given that the money has been taken away, and what the result will be. We can refer him specifically to the internal memorandum circulated by the Scottish Prison Service. We should also write to the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice asking how the decision was made, where he thinks the £13 million came from and what justification there can be for taking it away. If that is agreed, we can take the issue forward both with the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service and with the justice minister. That might shed some light on the matter; I am aware that, at the moment, we are operating in an area of speculation. I would also like to ask for clarification of the Cabinet briefing that I understand took place yesterday, so that we can establish what the proposals are. We would want to include those proposals in any future examination of the young offenders strategy by the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 418948,
      "EditedText": "As we move to the next item on the agenda, I note that we are absolutely bang on time, which is astonishing. All members have had a provisional forward programme of business circulated to them, but I have some additional comments to make. I was at the Parliamentary Bureau meeting yesterday. It was the third meeting that I have attended and it continued the rolling discussion about timetabling. This morning's business bulletin contains a motion in Tom McCabe's name—motion S1M-243—which concerns the designation of lead committees. This committee is designated as the lead committee for the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc. (Scotland) Bill and for the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, with the proviso that we should also take into account the views of the Health and Community Care Committee. We have already been designated as the lead committee for the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill, but motion S1M-243 states that the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee and the Local Government Committee are also to report to this committee on that bill. There are no specific timetabling dates in the motion, but that does not mean that we do not have a timetable. The provisional forward programme was designed with a particular set of circumstances in mind. Those circumstances are now changed. Notwithstanding the fact that there are no specific dates in the motion concerning the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill and the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc. (Scotland) Bill, both bills are expected be ready for stage 1 debate before Christmas. I understand that the stage 1 debate for the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill is expected to take place in the week beginning Monday 6 December. The stage 1 debate for the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc. (Scotland) Bill is expected to take place in the week beginning 13 December, the final week before the Christmas recess. It is expected that both debates will take place on a Wednesday afternoon. That may change to Thursday morning, but it is felt that Wednesday afternoon will afford the longest period for dealing with the bills. It was originally expected that we would try to get the member's bill on warrant sales to the same stage at about the same time, although it was unlikely that the stage 1 debate would take place before Christmas. That has changed as a result of the decision to involve the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee and the Local Government Committee in the stage 1 report on the bill. Both committees have indicated that they are so overburdened with work—Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 418954,
      "EditedText": "That is something that I, as convener, would want to manage. This is an extremely hard-working committee and I want us to be as bullish as possible about our capacity to absorb this work load. There is an element of truth in what Phil says. In principle, I am not happy about the lead committee being held back by the timetable of other committees, but the fact that that is going to happen allows us a more deliberate staging of bills. In those circumstances, stage 2 of the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill will be further down the line.There are huge timetabling issues with respect to stage 2 times. My concern is that the bureau will want to foreshorten those as well. There was an attempt to get us to report even earlier on the land reform and incapacity bills. A suggestion was wafted past my nose that we might be able to report on both of them by the end of November, but I said that there was no way that I could guarantee that. There is a desire to cut short the timetable. All committees scrutinising bills will have to deal with that. We will want the maximum time, the Executive will want the minimum time, and we will have to reach some kind of compromise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 418968,
      "EditedText": "At next week's meeting, we will consider a small draft report on our work so far on prisons issues. I ask the committee to agree that, as with the draft report on the statutory instrument, we should deal with it in private as, until we sign off on the draft, the report is not public. It should be possible to circulate the report to members in a draft form before next week's meeting. We will work out timings for that. As a result of this morning's exercise, I have a general question. Would members find it useful to have a brief five-minute meeting in private before an evidence-taking meeting starts? That would allow me to go around the table and establish the points that members wish to raise. I know that members cannot be absolutely certain—sometimes questions occur to one only halfway through. For example, it would have been useful if I had been aware of all the members who wanted to raise points about medical treatment. I could have brought them into the discussion one after the other and avoided some of the jumping about. Such an approach would involve a quick five-minute discussion before a meeting, to allow people to identify the points that they are going to raise. Do members agree to that approach when we are taking evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 418969,
      "EditedText": "Roseanna, I think that the less we meet in private, the better. I recognise that your suggestion is purely administrative and I accept your comments about the draft report, which I go along with. However, apart from those circumstances, I think that we are better simply remaining in open meeting. In any event, there is nothing to prevent members from having such a discussion before the meeting opens."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 418972,
      "EditedText": "If we are talking about five minutes and we are disciplined enough, it will not cause too much concern. People get suspicious only when committees meet in private for three quarters of an hour and then say that nothing was discussed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 418806,
      "EditedText": "Going back to Millan's letter, I note that, for the procedures in the sheriff court, the Millan committee is looking for nominated sheriffs. I would like your comments on that. In the Court of Session, we seem to be moving towards specialist judges. In the sheriff court, we have nominated sheriffs for family law, which I think would be a good idea for incapacity and mental health law.My second point concerns the way in which the hearings are conducted. I see that it comes under the heading of summary application. Would you like the hearings to work along the same lines as child welfare hearings? They will be dealing with some sensitive family issues, so perhaps there should be more consultative and interventionist hearings for certain matters at an intermediate stage. Some cases require frequent returns to court. In one case that I handled, a tutor dative was appointed; we had to keep going back for more powers but were resisted. It was a cumbersome case in the Court of Session and, because it concerned a young woman with anorexia nervosa, it was very urgent indeed. I wonder whether something could be done about the sheriff court procedures to make special provision for such cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 418832,
      "EditedText": "May I come back to the court procedures that might be used? Should there be a different structure? I concur with the sheriff being involved. As rights are being taken away, that level of jurisdiction and authority is needed, which would then, perhaps, be subject to review by the Court of Session and so on.It seems to me that, if a different system operated, we could resolve some problems. Rather than people making the usual applications to court and trying to arrange a hearing in the course of the day, a system would be in place which envisaged that in the first place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 418888,
      "EditedText": "Your submission states: \"In addition, the Bill does not appear to specify how often appeal can be made to the Sheriff against Guardianship.\"Would there not be a general right to appeal against any order of the sheriff, if one were dissatisfied with it or if the sheriff were to misdirect himself in relation to the law or the facts? Why do you want a specific reference to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 418890,
      "EditedText": "So you are concerned about renewal rather than about the decision itself?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 418892,
      "EditedText": "The note does not make that position clear as it refers only to how an appeal against guardianship can be made to the sheriff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 418912,
      "EditedText": "Pauline is allowing the rest of us seven. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 418928,
      "EditedText": "It seems to me that they are quite important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 418965,
      "EditedText": "We do not have an agenda item for any other competent business, but I want to suggest one, so that we can cover letters that we receive from individuals on relevant matters. We all received a letter from Mr and Mrs Watson, whose daughter was murdered. We should consider whether we should take a view on such matters as a committee or whether we should deal with them as individuals. Mrs Watson raised the issue of the victims' notification scheme, which appears to have let her down and which we should consider on another date. I want to make another point, although I do not know whether it is relevant. I was horrified to read in the papers about the judgment placed on Deputy Chief Constable Tom Wood following leaks about allegations that are not even under investigation. Does the committee want to make any comment about the manner in which that was done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 418741,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I should have said that Michael Matheson, an MSP who is not a member of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, has asked to be present. He will be taking part in the deliberations.We have had many briefings on the bill, and took informal evidence at the end of the recess. Committee members already have a fair amount of information and understanding about how the bill is intended to work. Many of the submissions that we have received since the end of the recess express a degree of alarm about some aspects of what is being proposed. Most of that concern relates to decisions about the provision of medical treatment. I expect that a lot of the questions this morning will relate specifically to that aspect.I open up the meeting to questions by members to the Scottish Executive witnesses. Do not be shy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 418744,
      "EditedText": "ENABLE and others have expressed concern about the definition of mental health in the bill. The original definition of mental health suggests total incapacity. There is a feeling that people with mental health problems have a range of incapacities—not always total incapacity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Barton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 418748,
      "EditedText": "I have read ENABLE's submission, and think that it could be reassured that there is no presumption that someone suffering from a mental disorder, whether it be a mental handicap—a learning disability—which is where ENABLE's interests lie, or any form of mental illness, is incapable of any particular decision or of decisions in general."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 418750,
      "EditedText": "The reason why this bill has been brought forward now, rather than waiting for the Millan review, is that it is recognised that reform of the law on mental incapacity is urgently needed. It is thought correct to improve the situation as soon as possible, rather than to wait for a more wide-ranging reform. We feel that there is a wide consensus on the timing and content of the bill, including the agreement of the Millan committee, which was asked whether it was content for us to proceed. The Millan committee has certain detailed reservations about the content of the bill, but not about the general principle of proceeding with the bill, or about the timing.The people whose interests are protected by the bill are not necessarily the same as those who are covered by mental health legislation. As Ms Barton explained, mental disorder is one of the threshold criteria in the bill for assessing incapacity, but not everyone with a mental disorder will have an incapacity. We accept that there is an overlap, but do not feel that that is a reason for not proceeding now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 418754,
      "EditedText": "Could you address the point more specifically? Is withdrawal of hydration and sustenance possible under this bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lynda Towers (Office of the Solicitor to the Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 418755,
      "EditedText": "That is currently dealt with under the common law by application to the Court of Session. It is understood that that will continue to be the position. If somebody seeks to withdraw nutrition and hydration, that will still have to be dealt with by petition to the Court of Session. While medical treatment includes ventilation, nutrition and hydration, our understanding is that it still would not allow somebody to withdraw treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 418758,
      "EditedText": "It also allows them not to provide nutrition and hydration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Towers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 418763,
      "EditedText": "To an extent, the bill sets out a statutory framework for what is already happening. Patients will receive surgical, medical, nursing and various other treatments. The person who decides whether a person has the capacity to give consent will still be the doctor. It is not envisaged that a nurse will decide whether a person is properly able to give consent. Nurses will give the caring treatment that the care team considers is appropriate for a particular patient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 418769,
      "EditedText": "So it would be possible, theoretically, for a nearest relative who has not been seen for 20 years to be involved in the direct decision making about care?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Barton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 418770,
      "EditedText": "It would be possible for that person to be involved, but theirs would not be the only view to be taken into account. The bill will ensure that anyone else who is looking after the adult, or is close to them, has the right to have their views heard. The bill does not distinguish between the status that is given to the different views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C418771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 418771,
      "EditedText": "That is a highly unsatisfactory state of affairs—could anything be added to tighten it up? As Roseanna said, in a lot of cases a relative who has not been involved for 20 years could have more influence than a partner of 20 or 30 years' standing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Barton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 418772,
      "EditedText": "The Millan committee is considering the definition of nearest relative—which originates in mental health legislation—and consulting on changes to it. If that committee decides to recommend changes in the mental health legislation, perhaps the definition in this bill should also be changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Barton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 418774,
      "EditedText": "Section 3(2)(d) contains a general provision that the sheriff can make an interim order to suit the circumstances. He has complete flexibility as to how quickly he can make that order and what sort of evidence he decides that he needs or can dispense with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Towers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 418777,
      "EditedText": "The Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 also makes provision whereby, in certain circumstances, an application can be made to the sheriff to change who is regarded as the nearest relative. However, those circumstances are very limited and I do not think that the provision is used very often. The Millan committee will examine all these matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 418782,
      "EditedText": "The explanatory memorandum says on subsection (2):\"The effect of this section will be to enable doctors, nurses, and others to seek to improve the health of adult patients with incapacity by giving treatment without fear of legal challenges.\"That text must be construed with the original."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Towers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 418783,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 418785,
      "EditedText": "Essentially, we were following the recommendations of the Scottish Law Commission's report, on which we consulted. There was no overwhelming argument against defining medical treatment—possibly the converse. That has shaped our thinking in including this provision in the bill, which is intended as clarification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 418787,
      "EditedText": "I see that argument. Conversely, the medical and nursing professions may welcome the clarification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 418789,
      "EditedText": "I see the difficulty—after \"medical treatment\" one might want to insert \"including optical or dental\". However, a definition may, in future, leave some treatments—physiotherapy or whatever—slightly outside the terms of the bill. If the definition is not specific, however, it will, through common sense, include everything. Once a definition is put in, anything that is not within the definition is excluded. Does that not create the problem that you are trying to avoid?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Towers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 418792,
      "EditedText": "There is an historical factor. It was considered to be a sensible approach by those whom we consulted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 418793,
      "EditedText": "I thank the Scottish Executive representatives for coming along. I would ask some of you to stay on if you were not already intending to. We may ask you to come back for five minutes as part of the wind-up.I ask Adrian Ward, convener of the mental health and disability committee of the Law Society of Scotland and spokesperson for the alliance for promotion of the incapable adults bill, to come to the table now. Mr Ward, welcome to the committee again. You came before us during our informal briefings in the recess. We will go straight to questions, unless you feel an overwhelming need to make another statement. If you do, could you make it no more than two minutes long?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 418808,
      "EditedText": "It would be interesting to hear your comments on a couple of points that have been raised with the committee by the Mental Welfare Commission, which will be giving evidence later. Concern has been expressed about the conflict of interest that could arise in the financial management of patients' funds when NHS trusts want to spend the money on goods and services that the health service would otherwise provide. How will that be monitored? Who is going to monitor whether the money that is being spent is over and above the money that should be getting spent anyway? You did not really address that issue in your submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 418801,
      "EditedText": "I would have no objection if subsection 44(2) started with paragraph (c), which is already very broad. The other parts of the definition could be included without prejudicing that generality. In other words, we should have the broadest possible definition—which is similar to that in paragraph (c)–and anything specific, such as paragraphs (a) and (b), should be given as examples that do not limit the definition. I would have no problem with the section being adjusted in that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 418803,
      "EditedText": "Yes.On a related point, does this new authority to treat create a new authority not to treat? My answer is that, clearly, it does not. It does not take anything away from the ethical or other obligations of doctors; it confers a positive authority to give treatment where there may be doubt about whether such treatment is authorised under the law as it stands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 418807,
      "EditedText": "On your first point, when my committee of the Law Society of Scotland was considering its response to the Scottish Law Commission's consultation in 1991, we looked at what forum would be appropriate for handling jurisdiction under such legislation as is now proposed in the bill. We did not start by looking at sheriffs at all. We considered a number of models, including children's panels and industrial tribunals. We then created a list of all the attributes that we thought would be necessary. Somewhat to our surprise, we came to the conclusion that, because of the question of basic rights, these matters should be within a sheriff's jurisdiction. One way or another, albeit with good reason, the process involves taking away somebody's right to do things for themselves and putting in place another mechanism for making those decisions.We also felt that, where there was dispute or the possibility of an appeal, we needed someone who was competent to state very clearly, in a way that an appeal court could address, how he or she came to his or her decision and the grounds in law and in fact. We concluded that a sheriff was probably the best person to do that. We were firmly of the view, and we remain so, that it would be helpful for designated sheriffs to become familiar with this jurisdiction. As far as I am aware, those who practise in mental health and mental incapacity matters entirely support that. This area of law requires a rather different approach from the one for much of the work that a sheriff usually does. In answer to your second point, I have seen models and paperwork for procedures in other countries. One of the Australian states kindly sent me all the relevant documentation: all the procedures were user friendly; in many cases, a lawyer would not be needed; and people could read the guidance, fill in the form and then go along for the hearing. The two questions are related. There were many arguments for having a format similar to that of a children's panel but, as a case is to go to a sheriff, the atmosphere should be closer to that format. That is a matter not for primary legislation, but for the rules within legislation. I strongly favour the approach that you have described, but recognise that some hard issues will have to be confronted. Legislation will not remove the problems; it will provide a better framework for addressing them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 418814,
      "EditedText": "You are preaching to the converted on that one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 418815,
      "EditedText": "I not preaching; I am reporting what the paper said. However, here in Scotland personality disorder is defined in that way. We have real concerns over whether that definition covers conditions such as brain damage acquired traumatically in an accident. Is that a mental illness or a mental handicap? It is doubtful. Does it cover brain damage caused by a stroke? We in the alliance and the Law Society of Scotland have real concerns over whether the definition—even with the recent adjustment to it—adequately covers what is meant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 418818,
      "EditedText": "In the submission from the alliance, you made some powerful points about why aspects of the bill were absolutely necessary. Although the committee has focused a little on some of the concerns and problems that might arise, will you comment on some of the points on pages 3 and 4? At first glance, they appear to be hypothetical case studies of present situations. You discuss how the bill would improve them. Were those cases actual and not hypothetical? Will you take two minutes to explain why those are the circumstances that require fixing? What problems will be resolved by the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 418819,
      "EditedText": "About 10 case studies have appeared frequently in alliance literature, and I will give you their background. At an early stage, we decided that we ought to provide explicit examples and, off the top of my head, I gave 10 examples from my own experience. Some were typical of many and others were more individual, but they are either specific cases that have happened or a generalisation of many specific cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 418821,
      "EditedText": "We have the problem of joint accounts. People put an account in joint names believing that there will be no problems if one of them dies. However, if one loses capacity, there are problems. If the banks become aware of the loss of capacity of one joint holder, they freeze the account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 418823,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Broader issues arise from curator bonis. People have found that all their funds have been exhausted because of the costs of curator bonis. They have had to pay massive sums in damages and have been living on less than state benefits. I am talking about people I know personally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 418824,
      "EditedText": "Are those real examples?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 418828,
      "EditedText": "Do members of the committee have any specific questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 418830,
      "EditedText": "We are particularly concerned about welfare functions. We know that the sheriff has the power to make interim orders, but that requires an application to be made to the sheriff. There might be very urgent situations, in which someone's welfare needs to be protected, that are not dealt with by the current bill. That may be because the Law Commission report on vulnerable adults, which was produced after the report on incapable adults, proposed emergency intervention powers for vulnerable people, including people with mental disorder. That would address such a situation.We simply point out that there could be a gap. Of course, the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 can also be used in emergency situations. If someone needs immediate protection, a section of that act allows people to be taken to a place of safety, and so on. It would be interesting to ask what the Executive envisages when somebody's welfare requires immediate protection, even beyond the terms of the interim order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 418836,
      "EditedText": "Nicely put."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 418840,
      "EditedText": "Or not giving treatment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 418844,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about what constitutes treatment and care. Chemotherapy, for example, is a treatment that could be interpreted as a benefit, or not as the case may be. Would that be covered by \"medical treatment\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 418848,
      "EditedText": "It is conceivable that a doctor who has the authority to treat someone medically might say that he will not feed the patient or give the patient water because he does not have permission to do that. I have heard some weird arguments in my time—I have put some forward myself—but that sounds pretty weird to me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 418849,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that a doctor would refuse to do that because it is not permitted, but there might be an argument about whether that is treatment or something else, such as the general duty of care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 418855,
      "EditedText": "It is not what I said—I said that one of the basic principles of the bill is that any intervention under the authority of the proposed legislation should provide benefit to the adult. Under the bill it might, therefore, seem inappropriate to offer intervention to an incapable adult, which conferred no benefit on that adult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 418862,
      "EditedText": "A recent court ruling endorsed the argument that nutrition and hydration can be withdrawn without implications of ill treatment or neglect. The bill may enable that argument to be made without reference to court scrutiny. Do you think that that would be possible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 418866,
      "EditedText": "Let us decide whether members have any further questions. We have five minutes in hand. If there are no more questions, we will invite the witnesses to make further statements. Gordon, you look eager."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Kappler: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 418876,
      "EditedText": "I believe that many individuals will perceive it to be a burden."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418879",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Kappler: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 418879,
      "EditedText": "The period is longer than it is under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Kappler: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 418891,
      "EditedText": "That is correct, although the decision could be challenged on a point of law. The renewal that is allowed under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 418893,
      "EditedText": "Under the bill, there might not be any renewal, as guardianship can be allowed for an indefinite period. An individual might want to appeal every week or every month. The Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 limits that by allowing one appeal in every period of renewal, which seems to be a reasonable balance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 418898,
      "EditedText": "For the record, why do you think that means-testing for legal aid should be removed for this group of people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 418900,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Dr Dyer and Mr Kappler. We are grateful for the information that you have given us today.We are running pretty much to time. I have succeeded in allowing a period of 20 to 25 minutes for the committee to discuss what we have heard and what we are likely to hear in future. That will help us when it comes to making decisions about the stage 1 report.While I will be more specific later about future business, I remind members that we are working towards the preparation of a stage 1 report on the principles of the bill. That report has to be laid before Parliament and forms the basis upon which there will be a stage 1 debate. We are working towards holding that debate before Christmas, probably on Wednesday 8 December. The stage 1 debate on the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc. (Scotland) Bill will take place the following week. While that business is not fixed, it is expected that the stage 1 debate on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill will take place prior to the Christmas recess, and we must have a report on the principles of the bill by then.A lot of information has come before us on specific parts of the bill, including, in many of the written submissions, suggestions for amendments, but we will not reach that stage until after the stage 1 debate. Therefore, when we listen to evidence, discuss the bill and consider the direction in which we are going, we must try to remember that we will report on the general principles rather than on specific issues.With that in mind, I advise members that, next week, we will hear evidence from representatives of those organisations, including the Catholic Church and related organisations, that have grave concerns about some aspects of the bill and that have given us submissions on the subject of medical treatment. Members will be aware of those concerns, which we will have the opportunity to canvass with the organisations, particularly in the light of the assurances that we received this morning, and which I hope will be, by that stage, part of the official record. Also, members of the Health and Community Care Committee will be invited to attend next week's meeting. We are required to take their input into account before we draft the report.It might be useful to have a brief discussion about the generality of the bill, to get a feeling of where any remaining concerns may lie. Bearing in mind the fact that at this stage we are working towards a report on the principles of the bill rather than specific details, do members want to raise any points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 418902,
      "EditedText": "As you say, nobody has seen a stage 1 report. A stage 1 debate is the equivalent of the second reading debate in the House of Commons. A second reading debate has no parliamentary procedure running up to it but, in this Parliament, there are procedures running up to a stage 1 debate. We are expected to report rather more fully than simply to say that the bill is great, full stop.There may be issues that the committee thinks have not been fully considered. I am thinking of the concerns that Gordon expressed about the definition of medical treatment. At this stage, we should not say how we think that the relevant sections should be amended. We should be expressing the committee's concerns, or the concerns of a number of committee members, that some areas of the issue have not been considered fully enough and that the definitions may be too detailed in some areas and not detailed enough in others.It would be appropriate to indicate that, although we are generally sympathetic to the principles, we recognise the areas in which there are real concerns that need to be dealt with now, but that there may nevertheless be aspects of the bill about which we have some lingering concerns, notwithstanding the assurances that we have had. That would indicate clearly where the concerns of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee lie and that would inform the stage 1 debate. As far as I can see, that is the whole point of this part of the procedure. Our report will also flag up an early indication of where some of the hot spots might be when it comes to debating the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 418903,
      "EditedText": "I have two points to make. First, I would like some clarification of your comparison with second reading in the House of Commons. At second reading, members contribute to the debate and a committee to take the bill through its stages is established from among those who have contributed. Here the committee is already in place and has considered many of the issues. For that reason, it might be better if committee members stepped back from the stage 1 debate when the bill comes to the chamber, to allow others to participate. I seek your views on that.Secondly, with respect to reservations there seems to be some difference of opinion between the Scottish Executive and other witnesses whom we have heard today on the definition of mental disorder. We should put down a marker on that with the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 418904,
      "EditedText": "Because we are running on time, I hope that we will have five minutes at the end of this part of the meeting to ask some of the Scottish Executive representatives to come back to address briefly some of the issues that are of concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 418907,
      "EditedText": "As a veteran of the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill, which has had its stage 1 debate, I should point out that, during that debate, members from across the chamber, including members of the Finance Committee and the Audit Committee, made both philosophical and technical points. The debate seemed to go very well with a mix of the two. I do not think that members of the committees to which I referred were inhibited in any way from taking part in that debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 418909,
      "EditedText": "In the stage 1 debate, would it be in order for us to raise questions about matters that are not included in the bill, such as the Mental Welfare Commission's concern about the fact that some treatments will be defined by regulation, rather than in the bill? Those include psychiatric treatment and electric shock treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 418910,
      "EditedText": "As far as I am aware, the stage 1 report that we return to the Scottish Executive could cover the areas where we feel that the bill has remained silent on things which should, in our view, be there. Equally, it covers concerns about how things have been drafted in the bill as presented.The difficulty is that this is the first stage 1 report and debate on such a bill. The extent of the report is entirely up to us to decide. How widely, generally or specifically we focus it is something that this committee has entirely within its hands. Nobody else is telling us how to do this; there is no pro forma report that we must comply with. It is entirely our decision what the report will include.In my view, we should include the areas of the bill on which we are in total agreement; the areas about which a significant number of us have a real concern—that will flag up a concern in the chamber as a whole; we are not likely to be completely unrepresentative of the chamber—and the areas to which we feel more attention should have been given: more information supplied and more issues covered. It is entirely in our hands how we approach this stage 1 report.When we are getting evidence from individuals, we need to remember that we are discussing principles rather than specifics at this stage. The bill will come back to us for line-by-line consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 418914,
      "EditedText": "It is also important to remember that flagging up all the areas of concern at this stage will give us very good information when it comes to timetabling stage 2. It indicates to the Executive and to the Parliamentary Bureau that, in the light of the number of concerns, the timetabling of stage 2 is appropriate.At the moment, we are operating on the basis that two committee meetings would be required for finalising a draft report. A first meeting would examine it, and we would go round the table to take views and concerns and judge the bill. It would then come back to a second meeting, if it was allowed. We have allowed flexibility to do that. Pauline is right. Everybody should have an opportunity and we should make sure that we canvas all the areas of concern and ensure that they are all dealt with. Nobody on the committee should feel that, if they have a significant concern, it has somehow been left out of the draft report.It is our duty to flag up those concerns as early as possible, whether or not we are unanimous on every one of those issues. I suspect that there will be some issues on which we are unanimous and others on which members have different concerns. Given that, I invite Pauline to tell us what her eight concerns are now. Other committee members will then know whether they agree with these concerns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Barton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 418919,
      "EditedText": "If I may pick up that point and one or two of the commission's—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 418920,
      "EditedText": "We have only five minutes left."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 418922,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other issues that you wish to return to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Liz Lewis (Scottish Executive Justice Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 418923,
      "EditedText": "I have policy responsibility for the section of the bill that deals with the management of residents' finances. My point concerns health boards being the regulatory bodies for trust hospitals. There are a number of things to be said, and I shall rattle through them, because I appreciate that we are running out of time.The bill introduces controls that do not exist currently. The controls that apply at the moment are narrow, yet hospitals are managing the funds of long-stay residents with incapacity. Under the bill, hospitals should only manage residents' funds as a last resort when no one else is available to do it. That is a considerable safeguard. The policy statement said that there should be a £5,000 upper limit on the funds that can be managed. The amount that can be managed will be prescribed by regulation. That means that hospitals cannot get access to large estates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 418931,
      "EditedText": "We will write to the Executive and ask it what stage it has reached in drafting the regulations that will appear after the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 418934,
      "EditedText": "We recently heard from the Scottish prisons inspectorate, which boasted of the reduction in prison overcrowding. Any reduction in staffing numbers or in the number of prisons would affect that.The report from the inspectorate suggested that Longriggend, which some members of the committee visited, was under threat. I understood that other options that would reduce overcrowding in the prison might be considered.The £13 million reduction seemed to come out of the blue. It should have been announced in the statement on funding that the Minister for Finance gave to the chamber a few days before the announcement.The policy on young offenders is totally separate from the argument on the £13 million reduction. The Parliament must make a decision on how to deal with the reduction. I do not believe that those policies can be introduced immediately; they will have to be discussed. I have great concerns about any thought of reducing the number of warders or the number of prison spaces."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 418936,
      "EditedText": "To some extent, you have pre-empted what I was going to say. Given the way in which we first heard of the announcement in the popular press, it is difficult to know the details. If numbers of prisoners were falling—as they seem to be—and there were no problems about the fabric of our prisons or about overcrowding, I would have no problem with the reduction in the budget. However, prisons are overcrowded and the buildings are poor.As one who is interested in the young offenders strategy—or lack of such—I echo Roseanna's points. The conditions in which young people were held in Longriggend were appalling. No wonder we have people who spend their lives going in and out of prison. I have no problems about the proposed closure of Longriggend, but the committee should return to the issue of young offenders later. We need to develop a coherent strategy to deal with the problem. Incarceration, though necessary in some cases, should not be the first option when dealing with young offenders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 418941,
      "EditedText": "I understand that those sums were achieved through efficiency savings within the Prison Service specifically so that they could be spent on the prison estate. The efficiency savings were a way in which the service could accumulate money, to deal with things such as ending slopping out.If the service cannot benefit by spending the money on the prison estate, there is not a great incentive to find future efficiency savings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 418943,
      "EditedText": "Nothing prevented the Prison Service. It was trying to accrue enough money to make a substantial difference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 418949,
      "EditedText": "Will that appear as \"laughter\" in the report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 418952,
      "EditedText": "I understood that there would be timetabling motions before Parliament, but to be fair to everyone—including the bureau—this is brand new for all of us. The bureau may be trying to find a more flexible way of working. The problem is that we are designated a lead committee but find that our work is being held back by other committees that are not lead committees. That is why our programme is perhaps even more provisional than it was originally. We will try to keep members updated when we revise the forward programme, but it has already been added to. Next week, for example, in addition to taking evidence on adults with incapacity, we will hear evidence on the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc. (Scotland) Bill from the Scottish Executive, the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors and the Law Society of Scotland. We may also hear from Scottish Environment LINK and Land Reform, Scotland.The following week, on Wednesday 17 November, we are due to hear evidence on poindings and warrant sales. Notwithstanding the revised programme, I think that we should go ahead with that, as we have started to put invitations out. In addition, it has been flagged up that the Scottish Landowners Federation could come on that day to talk about Carbeth. Members will remember some of the rather inflammatory statements that were made about the position of the Scottish Landowners Federation; we felt it only fair to ask the federation if it was interested in coming to talk to us. That is provisional at the moment; the rest of the programme holds, although if we are going to be held to the timetable of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee and the Local Government Committee, perhaps we can open up our forward programme a little. That may allow us, for example, to return to prisons or domestic violence in more detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 418953,
      "EditedText": "By just before the recess, we will have had the equivalent of second reading of the bills in the chamber. That means that, in January, two bills will be put back in our court. In my view, that is where our real work will lie. The bills will take up a great deal of our time, as there will be a lot of detail to consider. It might be beyond our means to cope with three bills, which would be the situation if stage 1 of the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill happened before Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 418955,
      "EditedText": "I hear what you say, convener, but it is one thing to be bullish, and another to recognise the importance of this legislation. I accept that we have some legal minds on the committee, who may be able to cope much better with the detail of these bills than laypeople can. However, to be perfectly honest, I think that it will be extremely difficult for us to deal with the detail of one bill at a time, never mind two at once. There is a heck of a lot to absorb and to pick up, and I am concerned about my capacity to deal with two bills at once. This Scottish Parliament has to get the legislation right. It is pointless rushing it through for the sake of it. I want to put down a marker on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 418956,
      "EditedText": "Notwithstanding that, we will have to produce a stage 1 report on the land reform bill some time after Christmas. There are issues relating to how we will handle all this, but I think that we can manage it if we timetable things sensibly, and if we accept that we may have to schedule in extra meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 418958,
      "EditedText": "We may have to schedule in the odd extra meeting. I do not want to do that as a matter of course, but it may be necessary. We may not need a whole extra meeting, but we could squeeze something in even in an hour and a half."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C418959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 418959,
      "EditedText": "I give notice that the Equal Opportunities Committee may also want to comment on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. At the moment, I am trying to find out how the committee fits into the process formally, as that has not yet been made clear. The Equal Opportunities Committee has a heavy work load, but it is in the process of timetabling. I will try to ensure that that fits in with what we are doing here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C418961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 418961,
      "EditedText": "The Equal Opportunities Committee's remit is to scrutinise everything, but it has not been designated the lead committee for anything because the power to legislate in that area is reserved to Westminster. I think that there should be a more formal procedure for our involvement, but we will try to fit in with your timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 418962,
      "EditedText": "I want to flag up my concern, which partially covers Phil's concern. I accept what you say, convener, about being bullish and about wanting this committee to be one that does things. However, there is a danger that we will end up taking too much work as the lead committee, because we are the legal committee—that is, the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. By that argument, all legislation would be passed to us, as it all has to do with legal matters. The danger is that we will get everything. I am not persuaded that we should have been the lead committee for the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill. There is an argument that another committee could have been the lead committee for that bill, albeit that there are legal aspects to it. I am not persuaded that we need to be the lead committee on the land reform bill, if we are busy, because aspects of that bill should be dealt with by other committees. I am on Phil's side. I would rather that we did one piece of work at a time, week after week, so that we could concentrate on it, rather than have a constant overlap between bills. I am legally qualified, but I find that overlap quite difficult. I am just flagging up the idea that perhaps we should not allow everything to come to us—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 418963,
      "EditedText": "That is not our decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 418964,
      "EditedText": "It may not be our decision but, as you say, you are bullish about it. We can have an influence. We can say, \"It's not our decision.\" However, rather than saying, \"We want this,\" we could say, \"Hey, we've got enough. Get someone else to do that.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 418966,
      "EditedText": "I remind members that we decided that we were not going to consider items of new business until the first meeting after the Easter recess. However, that does not prevent individual committee members from putting in writing an issue that they wish to have on a list for consideration. I invite members who have such issues to remember that our meeting then will entirely be taken up with examination of what will be, by that stage, a variety of issues—there are already half a dozen. Members should not feel that they cannot flag up further items for consideration, although they should bear in mind the fact that we will not discuss future priorities until that first meeting after the Easter recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 418973,
      "EditedText": "We can take the view that such a discussion need not be held in private—in the sense that the public is not present—but we could tell the official reporters that they do not need to record it as part of the Official Report. Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 418974,
      "EditedText": "I think that I have covered absolutely everything that I needed to cover. I close the meeting at only five minutes over time. I am grateful to everyone—the meeting went well this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 418745,
      "EditedText": "It is one of the general principles underlying the bill that an adult should be encouraged to exercise whatever capacity they have. The bill recognises that mental incapacity is not an all-or-nothing concept, that there are degrees of incapacity and that an adult can be capable of one type of decision but not another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 418739,
      "EditedText": "We have quite a lot of business to get through this morning, and I want to press ahead as quickly as possible. The first item on the agenda is the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. We will be taking evidence, and I want to indicate a rough time scale for this part of the agenda. Although we have not put times on the agenda, I want to try to deal with this aspect of the agenda by 11.55 am. As three groups of witnesses are giving evidence this morning, my intention is that each will get half an hour.In those circumstances, I am asking the witnesses to keep any opening remarks extremely brief, to give committee members the maximum opportunity to ask questions. If it appears that we will fall short of the half-hour, witnesses can return with any further statements that they wish to make. However, I do not want to take up each of the half-hours with long opening statements that make it difficult for people to ask questions.The three people who are here from the Executive are accompanied by others from the Executive, who may wish to answer specific questions that arise. We have a difficulty with the microphones, and if it is necessary for one of the other three to answer a question, they will be required to swap seats with those in front of the microphone so that the official reporters can hear clearly what is being said. That might be a little awkward, but I ask people to bear with us.Our first witnesses are Ms Kay Barton and Mrs Micheline Brannan from the civil law division in the justice department and Alan Williams from the office of the solicitor in the Scottish Executive. As the paper that has been given to me is a bit long, could one of the witnesses summarise it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kay Barton (Scottish Executive Justice Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 418746,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful to spell out that the bill has two threshold criteria for assessing incapacity. One is mental disorder, broadly in terms of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. The other is an inability to communicate because of a physical disability. Beyond those two threshold criteria, the bill sets out further criteria as to whether someone is incapable of acting, making or communicating a decision, or remembering that they have made a decision. Mental disorder on its own is not a passport to the provisions of a bill. There is a further incapacity test."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 418752,
      "EditedText": "At this point we shall have an uncomfortable shuffling of chairs because my colleague Mr Brown is more expert in this area than I am."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Brown (Scottish Executive Health Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 418753,
      "EditedText": "It has been suggested that the bill will legalise, or otherwise make possible, euthanasia on a voluntary or legal basis. Euthanasia is a criminal offence under the existing law and nothing in the bill will alter that. The Executive has been at pains to make clear that it remains opposed to any legalisation of euthanasia.Fears have been expressed by a number of interest groups that guardians or welfare attorneys acting in their own financial interest, and perhaps in collusion with doctors, may seek the withdrawal of treatment, in some cases leading to the patient's death. The bill contains a number of safeguards designed to prevent that.Part 1 of the bill requires all interventions to be of benefit to the patient and to be the least restrictive option available. Part 5, which contains section 44, allows the person responsible for medical treatment of an adult to seek authority from the Court of Session to give treatment in the event of refusal of consent by a guardian or welfare attorney.Guardians and welfare attorneys also have a duty at common law to act in good faith and in the interests of those on whose behalf they make decisions. There is a range of safeguards designed to forestall the situation envisaged in your question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 418756,
      "EditedText": "If that is the case, why have you specifically included it in the bill? If there are safeguards at common law, why have you taken the opportunity to specifically include it in a bill dealing with adults with incapacity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 418757,
      "EditedText": "That follows the Law Commission's report. It is designed to clarify that doctors can, within the general scope of their authority to treat, give ventilation, nutrition and hydration by artificial means. It clarifies the law as it currently stands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 418760,
      "EditedText": "On a more general question, section 44(2) in the draft bill also makes reference to the inclusion of nursing. That has raised concern as medical treatment and nursing care are quite different disciplines. There is a concern that, for example, pain relief should be provided to all patients regardless of their condition. Will you give me an explanation for the inclusion of nursing within this bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 418762,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned that the witnesses see the provisions in the bill as positive, but the majority of representations by organisations made to this committee express the view that they are not positive. Those organisations think the bill increases the chances of withdrawal of treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 418764,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty is that, while it might not be envisaged that that is the case, if it is put down in statute in black and white it might still have that effect. We have all experienced legislation that has an effect that was not envisaged. Is it your view that the proposed legislation is not capable of the construction that is suggested by some potential witnesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C418766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 418766,
      "EditedText": "I am particularly interested in intervention and in when a person can be delegated to make decisions about an individual's health and welfare. What safeguards are being put in place to ensure that an incapable adult's previous wishes are taken into consideration, and when would the views of nearest relatives or primary carers be sought or taken into account? I am thinking particularly about same-sex relationships, which an incapable adult's family might disapprove of. Will there be any safeguards or reassurances that the partner's views will be sought or taken into account and not just the views of the family, which might have had no contact with the incapable adult for a number of years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Towers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 418768,
      "EditedText": "May I add one further point? The definition of nearest relative is as Kay suggested. It includes the catch-all that if a person has resided with someone who is not a relative for a certain period of time, that person can assume particular status, but only if there is no one else under the nearest relative list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Barton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 418776,
      "EditedText": "He could decide whom he wanted to hear evidence from in any decision in front of the court."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Barton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 418779,
      "EditedText": "Some of the underlying definitions in the incapacity bill are certainly linked to that act. The Executive consulted Mr Millan about it. His view was that it was a good idea to have consistency of underlying definitions, provided that they are used appropriately and that the use of Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 definitions in the incapacity legislation can be reviewed, and perhaps amended, once his committee has reported."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Towers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 418788,
      "EditedText": "The additional factor is that, although medical treatment is easily argued to consist of surgical, medical and nursing treatment, it is perhaps not always obvious that it would include optical and dental procedures or treatments. Leaving the definition in a wide format allows for developments of other professions and for other treatments in the future. It would be a flexible provision—but you are right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 418790,
      "EditedText": "By your argument, section 44(2)(c) would fit the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 418791,
      "EditedText": "That is already included in paragraphs (a) and (b); it would be there anyway. I do not want to go on about it; I am just curious about why you did it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 418796,
      "EditedText": "I am convener of the mental health and disability committee of the Law Society of Scotland—that is the capacity in which I appeared before. I am also principal spokesperson for the alliance in favour of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 418798,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It is important to step back and see the context. Medical treatment is authorised in four different ways. Most forms of treatment that intervene physically would be classed as assault unless the treatment was authorised. The authorisation criteria are: the consent of the patient; the consent of someone who has legal power to consent for the patient; the principle of necessity—if I am reeled into hospital in a state of unconsciousness, the doctor does not need my consent; and where medical treatment is authorised by statute. In our law, that last criterion is limited to compulsory treatment for mental disorder under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 418800,
      "EditedText": "Is there not a danger that, if you make the definition and worry about things at the fringe, you will create the problem? You will find things at the fringe that are not covered by section 44. Eventually something will turn up and, because it is not specifically included, the argument will be that, as the section is inclusive, that thing is specifically excluded—you could exclude things by specifically including things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 418802,
      "EditedText": "The emphasis could be moved round?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 418804,
      "EditedText": "I ask a more general question. You heard us discussing the impact of the Millan review. You have talked about mental health legislation. What is your general impression of the way in which this bill and the Millan review interact? Are there matters that you would prefer to leave to the review, or do you feel that we might require this bill to be amended when Millan reports?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 418805,
      "EditedText": "The bill is necessary; the Millan review is very necessary, and I welcome it. When, in 1986, I first suggested a comprehensive review to the Scottish Law Commission, I said that that review should encompass both incapacity and mental health law. However, the two can be dealt with separately without problem, as they deal with different, although related, areas. Mental health law is essentially concerned with issues of compulsion, such as when it is appropriate to deprive people of their liberty or to give them treatment that they would otherwise refuse to accept because of the characteristics of their mental disorders. That is the core of mental health law.This legislation covers a far wider range of people. You will have heard the estimate that it would probably be relevant to 100,000 people in Scotland at any given time. There are certainly not 100,000 people who would come under the Mental Health Act (Scotland) 1984 provisions at any given time, and the people who would have different needs. This bill concerns decision making about such people's finances and health care. Mental health law is much more specific. I am concerned that parts of mental health law, which we all know need to be reviewed and are going to be changed, might nevertheless be referred to. I would prefer this bill to give a definition of incapacity that is clearly suitable for its purposes. Any definition in mental health law will serve a different purpose—it will concern the issues of compulsion that I have described. I am delighted that the Millan committee is doing the job. I hope that it conducts a wide-ranging review and challenges everything, as much needs to be changed. However, let us not wait for that; let us formulate the right definitions in this bill. I do not think that, after Millan has reported, we will want the definition in mental health law to be included in this bill, which serves a different purpose.The same applies to the question of the nearest relative. We are concerned that there is no mechanism to displace an unsuitable nearest relative. A father may be abusing a daughter, but if he is the nearest relative, we cannot get rid of him. Everybody knows that that problem must be addressed and I see no need for the bill not to deal with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 418810,
      "EditedText": "The concern is that, as the bill gives the health boards a supervisory role, their relationship with various NHS trusts will become more complex if it looks as though money is being spent inappropriately. Are health boards in the strongest position to do anything about such a situation? Are there sufficient resources for supervision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 418811,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I can answer that question on behalf of the bodies that I represent. The Mental Welfare Commission might be able to help you more, as it has better hands-on experience of monitoring that situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Adrian Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 418816,
      "EditedText": "The simple answer to your question is to quote the definition that the alliance proposed: \"any disability or disorder of mind or brain, whether permanent or temporary, which results in an impairment or disturbance of mental functioning, or inability to communicate because of physical or other disability.\"That is a wider definition. We have to be careful; this is one of the problems that I have with the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. If we are talking about people whom it is appropriate to treat against their will, and who should lose their liberty, we need a narrow definition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 418820,
      "EditedText": "Some of that is because of current banking practices that have evolved and created even more difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 418822,
      "EditedText": "The whole account?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr James Dyer (Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 418827,
      "EditedText": "That is one of a number of comments in our submission concerning the erosion of the role of the public guardian, which was proposed in the Scottish Law Commission report of 1995. Under that proposal, the management of funds of incapable people in hospital would have been supervised by a public guardian, rather than by the Mental Welfare Commission, as at present. Under the bill, health boards would have that supervisory function.We have mixed feelings about taking that responsibility away from the Mental Welfare Commission. As I say in our submission, it would, on the one hand, remove an area of work from us and allow us to concentrate on other important aspects of our role. On the other hand—as your question indicates—we worry about a potential conflict of interests arising from one NHS organisation monitoring another NHS organisation. We sometimes come across problematic cases. In one such case, a hospital wanted to pay for a patio area outside a ward with the funds of an incapable patient. Because the patio would be expected to last far longer than the patient, that proposal seemed to us inappropriate.We sometimes have to adjudicate in such cases. They are not frequent, but it can be difficult to decide whether something should be provided by the NHS or out of a patient's funds—for example, a more luxurious bed or more luxurious furniture. We are hampered by a lack of clear guidance from the NHS in such circumstances as to what it should provide. One has to make commonsense decisions.If health boards are to monitor trusts—and, of course, trusts are funded via health boards—there is the potential for a conflict of interests. They do not have the same independence that the commission is able to exercise at present in scrutinising these cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Kappler (Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 418831,
      "EditedText": "The ability to proceed quickly to provide the care—particularly, residential and nursing care—that someone is assessed as needing, on an emergency basis has come up consistently over the years from social workers and mental health officers to the Mental Welfare Commission. Although the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 allows someone to be put in a place of safety for 72 hours, it is difficult to get an application through, even with the proper paperwork, and to get it adjudicated, even on an interim basis, within 72 hours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 418834,
      "EditedText": "I come back to the issue of money. I understand that the bill gives the Mental Welfare Commission additional functions. Have you made any assessment of the implications for your budget of the additional functions? Do you have concerns about the resourcing of aspects of this bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 418839,
      "EditedText": "As Adrian Ward explained, it is necessary to give a clear statutory authority to treat. Currently, that is given under common law. In Scotland, common law is seen through a glass darkly. It is very unclear because, unlike south of the border, there has been a lack of court cases clarifying common law. We welcome a general statutory authority to treat. Of course, that will be qualified and we were surprised to find that those qualifications will be made through regulations rather than in the bill. We are not clear about the procedure that will be followed. We understand that the negative procedure will be used, whereby regulations are debated only if someone objects to them. The regulations will include matters that are considered to be controversial, such as psychiatric treatments. Treatments such as drugs for a psychotic disorder and electro-convulsive therapy are likely to be exclusions to the general authority to treat, requiring special safeguards. It is important that there is adequate discussion of such matters.In regard to the previous discussion about whether including certain treatments covers withdrawal, I would point out that one of the underlying principles of the bill is that any intervention should be required to produce a benefit for the adult. It would be against the principles of the bill to give any treatment that was not conferring benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 418841,
      "EditedText": "I simply say that it is against the principles to give treatment that would not confer benefit. The bill does not say anything about withdrawing treatment. That was in the Law Commission proposals, but the Executive has chosen to leave out of the bill any specific proposals for withdrawal or withholding of treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 418842,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that if more positive language was used, the controversy surrounding that might be avoided? Some organisations—I have had many letters—are suggesting that the Executive is about to legalise euthanasia. I can see that that is not the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 418846,
      "EditedText": "I am still not clear why we want ventilation, nutrition and hydration to be specified as medical treatment. Surely we are not envisaging a doctor saying that although he is entitled to treat a person medically, he cannot give them air, water or food. That would be an absurdity—those must come under medical treatment. I fear that if that is not the case, that area would become a battlefield rather than something that is, as a matter of common sense, included in any medical treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 418851,
      "EditedText": "That would be worth exploring. The sheriff could have the benefit of expert advice. We, too, are sympathetic to the idea of nominated sheriffs—sheriffs who build up expertise in this area. The Sheriffs Association will tell you, however, that it does not think that that would be viable outwith the main centres of population, because it would be more difficult to get sheriffs in rural areas to specialise. However, that seems to us to raise issues about the training of sheriffs and appraisal of them. Why should not rural sheriffs benefit from the same training as everyone else?What Mr Jackson suggests about expert, independent and professional advice is an idea that is well worth exploring."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 418853,
      "EditedText": "I would not put it in those terms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 418854,
      "EditedText": "That is how I understood it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418859",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 418859,
      "EditedText": "It is highly likely that that would be the case. I am not expert in conditions such as persistent vegetative state, and which are not within the remit of the Mental Welfare Commission, so I am not fully competent to answer that question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 418861,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The bill will make the situation clearer. At the moment, doctors and others who are involved in treatment are not sure about the legal authority to treat incapable patients. The bill will clarify that, with the general statutory authority to treat in fairly ordinary circumstances. Those people will know that there is a statutory authority. Provisions in the bill will cover situations in which a welfare attorney or guardian disagrees, and there will be a court procedure for resolving those disagreements. There will be special safeguards for treatments that are considered more serious or more controversial. However, I have expressed concern that those will be dealt with by regulations instead of being debated with the sections of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 418865,
      "EditedText": "We have some concerns about welfare guardianship."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 418867,
      "EditedText": "I wondered whether we might ask one further question of the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 418868,
      "EditedText": "We will ask it to return, Gordon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 418870,
      "EditedText": "No—now. We have sorted all that out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 418871,
      "EditedText": "Sorry. That is my fault for coming in late."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 418873,
      "EditedText": "Mr Kappler would like to comment on the welfare aspects of the guardianship that is provided for in the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Kappler: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 418874,
      "EditedText": "Guardianship will be removed from the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984, and included in the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. There will be many benefits from that. The three existing powers of guardianship are quite limiting. In spite of that, guardianship has more than doubled in the past three to four years. There are probably about 200 people in guardianship, under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. I have some concerns about the transitional arrangements. The period for which guardianship is granted, under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984, is six months initially, which is renewable yearly. The period that will be granted under the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill will be three years or longer, which will be renewable for periods of five years or longer. Basic rights are at issue. We often talk of compulsion, which is a key issue in the management of a person's care. Quite often, a power of residence is used specifically to provide a level of care in the community, albeit often in a residential or nursing home. It is required to protect a person's safety and welfare.People often ask us to exercise our power to discharge guardianship, which we do in the periods during which they can appeal to the sheriff court. Many people who are in guardianship would feel aggrieved if that period of approval were extended to the extent that the legislation suggests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 418880,
      "EditedText": "Should the period stay the same or should it be in between?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 418884,
      "EditedText": "Will you comment on the costs to the individuals whose interests are being looked after? I am told that the curator bonis system is fairly costly and that guardianship should improve the situation considerably."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Kappler: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 418885,
      "EditedText": "There is no doubt that curators bonis are expensive. There is also a gap in the system for people who need some intervention in their financial affairs but who cannot afford a curator bonis. Undoubtedly, the bill will be quite helpful to families and professionals who are involved in managing people's care. The cost should be much more manageable as the system is much more streamlined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 418886,
      "EditedText": "I have two comments to add. First, there is a gap. The Scottish Law Commission proposed that it should be possible for the accountant of court, in his role as public guardian, to be appointed as financial guardian if there was no other way of looking after a person's finances. The Executive rejected that view. We can envisage situations in which there is nobody else to look after people's affairs, especially those with modest estates, and in which a low-cost system is necessary to protect their finances. For example, somebody with incapacity who is not in residential accommodation, but who is living at home with a lot of support, might need the public guardian to be a financial guardian of last resort.Secondly, it is important that people who have things done to them because of their incapacity have adequate legal representation. The policy document says that legal aid will be available in the normal way. We do not believe that that is sufficient. We have successfully argued the case with the Executive that the situation in Scotland should be brought into line with that in England and Wales, where means-testing was abolished some time ago for legal aid in relation to mental health hearings and appeals under the Mental Health Act 1983. The Executive has told us that regulations will soon be laid that permit the abolition of means-testing for legal aid in relation to part V of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. We think that there is an even stronger argument, where people have been assessed as being incapable, that there should be no inhibition on their legal representation through cost if they are not within the current legal aid threshold. It is not through their actions that they seek legal assistance. We are keen to see the abolition of means-testing for legal aid, and at least for advice by way of representation, under this legislation as well as under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Kappler: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 418894,
      "EditedText": "That may be reasonable if an appeal is allowed after six months or a year. It may not seem reasonable if the renewal period is five years or is an indefinite period"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Dyer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 418896,
      "EditedText": "Yes, something like that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418897",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 418897,
      "EditedText": "Pauline, please ask your question quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1767992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 418901,
      "EditedText": "Like everyone else, I have never seen a stage 1 report or been at a stage 1 debate, so I am not quite sure what it is like. How detailed is it? It is easy for me to say that, in principle, this bill is a good thing. I suspect that nobody will disagree with that. Is that as far as we go in discussing the principles of the bill? We need a little bit of guidance on when one crosses the line into detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 418913,
      "EditedText": "Some of them fall into categories of agreement; some are \"Let's have another look\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Brannan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 418917,
      "EditedText": "We have not had the opportunity to confer. That creates some difficulties for us as we will all have our own list of points. I will start with mine and invite my colleagues to correct anything that they do not agree with and to add their own points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Barton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 418921,
      "EditedText": "I just wish to add to what Mrs Brannan said. The provisions in the bill with regard to guardians, who will replace curators bonis and others, are much more flexible than are those in the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. That is one of the main reasons for needing to change the law, so that periods of appointment can be designed to suit an individual's circumstances. The duration of periods of appointment will not be prescribed; each individual must be considered by the sheriff.The bill also makes it possible to challenge at any time, not just at prescribed intervals, anything that is being done, for example orders that are being put in place by the courts or anything that is being done on behalf of an adult by someone appointed to act for them. There is a lot more flexibility under the bill than under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984, with regard to the discharge of guardians, which can be considered by the statutory authorities and the courts at any time when the adult does not need the help any more, rather than only at prescribed intervals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 418927,
      "EditedText": "No. The regulations will appear later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 418939,
      "EditedText": "I will say what everybody else has said. The announcement came out of the blue. Having just visited prisons and seen the appalling conditions at Longriggend, I could not believe that it was happening, and I want to know why.I have had representations from MSPs with prisons in their constituencies. I received a representation from the MSP whose constituency contains Cornton Vale. She spoke to the governor of Cornton Vale, who is most concerned. She said that the prisons had made efficiency gains, but were not getting the benefit, as those gains were passed somewhere else. The Prison Service feels that it is down to the minimum. As Scott Barrie, Pauline McNeill and others have said, we need to take this further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 418940,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in what the figure of £13 million constitutes. I have heard various descriptions of it, including accumulated underspends. What has the Scottish Prison Service not being doing to achieve several years' worth of underspend?I have done further research. Apparently, the service will be allowed to keep £11 million of last year's underspend.We need to ask the Executive and the Scottish Prison Service what those sums are. If the underspends were accumulated over a number of financial years, why, given the state of places such as Longriggend, has the money not been spent? Also, why was it decided to reallocate the £13 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 418942,
      "EditedText": "Why have those savings not been used? What prevented the Prison Service from using them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 418944,
      "EditedText": "What is the point of the Prison Service making such an effort if it does not benefit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 418945,
      "EditedText": "That is a broader issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C418946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 418946,
      "EditedText": "Can we have that clarified? It seems strange that the service could accrue contingencies or balances from revenue and then be able to spend them on capital projects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 418950,
      "EditedText": "The committees are so overburdened with work that they are highly unlikely to be able to report to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee before the end of January at the earliest. That means that we would not be able to make our stage 1 report on the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill until February at the earliest.I have a slight problem with that; although we are the lead committee, we are not being allowed to set the pace. I flag up the timetabling of bills because I have been asked to go back to the bureau before Christmas to discuss that issue in general. When I do, I want to make the point that when a committee is designated the lead committee, it should have greater control of the timetable, in consultation with other committees.We drafted a forward business programme—which involved a great deal of work—and discussed the possibility that we might have to meet more than once a week on one or two occasions. We are now not quite back to square one, but we are certainly in a slightly different position—that concerns me. I am also concerned about the interesting scenario in which we find ourselves as a result of dates not being included in some of the motions. In effect, there is no parliamentary imposition on us in respect of any of these bills, albeit that there is a sort of back letter that is an agreement about when we will do the work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 418951,
      "EditedText": "Why are there no dates? Should there be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 418957,
      "EditedText": "I do not mind extended times."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 418960,
      "EditedText": "The Health and Community Care Committee has been asked to report to us by 22 November so that we can take its views into account for 23 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 418970,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate what Phil is getting at and I concur with some of what he says. However, if we are trying to get the most out of witnesses, it is incumbent on us to be more disciplined in our approach. I do not think that there is anything wrong with your suggestion, convener, if that is what it was designed to do. Certainly, that procedure has worked successfully for other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 418971,
      "EditedText": "We can hold those discussions either in private or in public. I have to keep in mind the advice that was given to conveners to try to find ways of avoiding burdening the Parliament's resources. We were asked to have such discussions when dealing with purely housekeeping issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11204,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ID": 11204,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 418975,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:35."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1924197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 418775,
      "EditedText": "So the sheriff could deal with a conflict about who was the nearest relative by calling for a hearing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 418778,
      "EditedText": "It is obvious that we must consider this matter as linked to the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 418905,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to the fundamental definitions of nearest relative and primary carer. Those may create conflicts, particularly in today's society, in which relationships are so different from what they were before.We also need to consider tightening up emergency procedures—it is not clear here that we might be dealing with very difficult cases—and to flag up the procedures that will be used for this kind of application under the bill. In due course, regulations and sheriff court rules may need to be changed. That would eradicate some of the problems that lie ahead, in terms of procedures getting in the way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 11202,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11202,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 418926,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to interrupt, but I would like to clarify something about the regulations. Have we accepted them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2384
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11203,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ID": 11203,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 418933,
      "EditedText": "I was most concerned to learn of the threats to close Penninghame open prison. I know that that is only speculation, but I have a constituency interest. The prison is in the south of Scotland and I lived quite close to it for a long time—in a village called Minnigaff. The prison is very well respected. I have a paper from it—I will be happy to let members see it if they do not have copies—which contains submissions from the prison officers and from local communities. It is a successful prison, which has a very low cost per prisoner. If it were to close, it would be serious for the Scottish Prison Service.Unique to Penninghame are what are known as independent units. Twenty independent unit places are available—prisoners have to work and to budget for their food. Forty per cent of the prisoners are on outwork placements—they used to work in Minnigaff, on pensioners' gardens. The social mixing is important.The impact on the local economy would be noticeable. The area needs the employment that the prison provides. Its cost to the Prison Service is well below the target for other prisons.The main point is the prison's success as the gateway to release for all levels of prisoners, from those sentenced to short terms to those who are serving sentences for murder. It has a good drug rehabilitation programme. I have a letter from the head teacher of Douglas Ewart High, the local school, praising what the Prison Service does for the school, and similar letters from various voluntary organisations. It is a successful open prison, and I want the committee to be aware of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1189447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 285396,
      "EditedText": "Those are cogent points, which need to be addressed. We need a robust method of measuring the factors such as deprivation. The present system of measuring work load—through CMR—does not adequately do that because of the atypical nature of the practices. As you rightly point out, the redistribution of resources has major implications. In the Borders, for example, there is a suggested reduction of 27 per cent and, in Shetland, there will be 39 per cent less."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Kenneth Harden (Chairman, British Medical Association Scottish General Practitioners Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 285393,
      "EditedText": "As John Garner was saying, Scottish GPs welcome the development for the first time of an equitable distribution model. However, it is essential to recognise the deficiencies of the model that has been proposed. Several loading factors are used for GP payments. One of the main ones is continuous morbidity recording. That system is based on a number of volunteer practices. Inevitably, a system that bases itself on volunteers is atypical. That is illustrated by the fact that, for example, the system involves only 6 per cent of the practices but covers about 11 per cent of the population of Scotland. The practices are substantially bigger than average. Only 3 per cent qualify for deprivation payments as opposed to 11 per cent of practices in the country as a whole. The only aspect of work load recorded in the system is the number of consultations, whereas, for a true record of work load in general practice, it is clearly important also to record the duration of the consultations and other aspects such as telephone consultations and nurse consultations.We were concerned that the method of validating sparsity in general practice used the current payment structure, which seems to us to be a rather circular logic. Some methods of measuring actual additional costs seem to be much more appropriate than using the existing payments system. Some of the results produced are counter-intuitive—for example, the suggested major reduction in the funding of GMS in the Borders.We note with regret that the Arbuthnott committee does not seem to have taken dispensing payments into account in its calculations. That has a significant effect on payments to GPs in rural areas who do dispensing as well as general medical services.The report did not consider the problem of inducement practices. Where a practice is considered essential, the current arrangements ensure the payment of more than 80 per cent of average intended net remuneration to inducement GPs. It is unlikely to be possible to ensure the provision of adequate GMS in those areas without the inducement scheme or a comparable expenditure. There seems to be a case for top-slicing the payment in terms of the irreducible minimum of such areas.The move to a rational, equitable basis for allocation of GMS is welcomed, but much work is needed to establish a more robust system to measure both need and demand in primary care. Considerable thought and planning is required to establish an effective and safe method of implementing necessary change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 285398,
      "EditedText": "Let me explain that point. The reduction in resources is 27 per cent, but the implication of the reduction in resources is much greater in terms of the numbers of GPs. Under the current system, there are certain basic payments, such as capitation fees, which continue. If the only reduction that can be made is in the number of GPs, the reduction costs have got to be in basic practice allowances. That will have a much greater effect on the number of GPs than the simple reduction in resources would indicate. That is why there is that difference in the number of GPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 285399,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that if the recommendations are implemented, inequality of access, poverty and deprivation might increase? We will not have the GPs to carry out the services. If what you say is correct, the Arbuthnott committee will do the opposite of what it set out to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 285401,
      "EditedText": "I have a supplementary question. Are you saying to us that the GMS should be excluded from this process, because the data are inadequate? One of the questions at the beginning of your submission is this:\"Why has GMS been included in this at this point in time?\"However, this morning you are saying that, although you welcome the fact that someone is attempting to do something about the situation, the changes in GMS are so significant in Grampian, Borders, Lothian, Orkney and Shetland—as shown in table 14.5 in \"Fair Shares For All\"—that they would have a totally destabilising effect. Am I correct in thinking that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rab Hide (Deputy Chairman, BMA Scottish Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 285404,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I can answer that. I understand what you say about the specific problems in rural areas. The possible knock-on effect in specialist services may affect all patients. Many of the services in question are tertiary or major secondary services.There are two problems, which are perhaps not detailed in the Arbuthnott report, but which certainly impinge on that report's conclusions. In this country, we seem to have had difficulty in producing true costs—the true costs of procedures, of acute sector care and of general practice. We have tried, but seem to have failed, to develop a robust system of coping with what we call cross-boundary flow—of ensuring that money follows patients. Many words have been spoken and many theories put in place, but at the grass roots—at the coal face, rather—it sometimes seems that that is not happening. That was a distorting factor in the care formula."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 285405,
      "EditedText": "It is all very well for us to be critical. However, can the BMA provide a workable definition of equity of access to GPs, irrespective of the density or profile of the population?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 285409,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about the implementation of a new system of distribution. Looking back to the implementation of the SHARE formula, can you provide any evidence that that formula had any effect on the quality of care in different health board areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 285410,
      "EditedText": "One of the difficulties that I have perceived in the reports and some of the transcripts is the interpretation of the data that are available. I have been a consultant in the Scottish health service for 30 years and I have little doubt that, following the SHARE report, there has been a considerable improvement in basic medical care facilities in many health boards that were relatively deprived before. Argyll and Clyde Health Board and Ayrshire Health Board, for instance, were able to develop core specialist services. The difficulty was that the report affected some of the major centres that supply services beyond the core ones, as we have heard from Lothian Health and Greater Glasgow Health Board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Garner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 285414,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 285419,
      "EditedText": "It takes deprivation into account. It uses the existing deprivation payments to recognise deprivation and it uses the rural practice payments to recognise sparsity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 285420,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that you have already told us what changes you think would be brought about, but do you intend to conduct a study of the formulae and apply them to a set of assumptions so that they can be modelled? Are the concerns that you expressed about the shifts related to the way development costs are considered, in terms of health costs and health inflation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 285421,
      "EditedText": "We have addressed the problems that your first point referred to with the Arbuthnott committee. It is considering the weaknesses in the current information. There is a need for some forum that can do more work in the area. I do not know whether that should be the Arbuthnott committee or its successor or whether the responsibility lies with the Scottish Executive.Your question on development costs is important. The suggestion that you and Mr Chisholm made is that changes can be absorbed simply by standing still. That is a fallacy because applications for increases do not keep up with health inflation, although they might keep up with general inflation. If an area is not receiving significant additional resources, particularly for general medical services, it will have to cut down on other areas. We need development costs in primary care to extend the range of services to provide an extended range of intermediate services. There is no reference in the report to the development of intermediate care to provide services in a site that is more convenient to the patient and at a level that is more cost-effective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 285424,
      "EditedText": "Not at all. They were written to and asked whether they were willing to take part in a voluntary project of data collection. A small payment was made for staff, but no payment was made for the GP.The result was that in areas where practices were extremely hard pressed—such as very deprived areas—there was a great unwillingness to participate. The danger was that spending more time on data collection would be to the detriment of patient care. At that time, the purpose of the exercise was not made clear; at no point was it made clear that its aim was a logical redistribution of resources. If that had happened, I suspect that many practices would have been more willing to participate and would have done so more reliably."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 285428,
      "EditedText": "That is the majority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 285430,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 285431,
      "EditedText": "You went on to say that one of the reasons that many doctors, particularly in hard-pressed practices, did not participate, was overstretching—people felt that it would be detrimental to patient care. I cannot understand your argument that, if GPs had been paid, they would have participated and patient care would not have been prejudiced, but that patient care would have been prejudiced if they had participated without being paid. Am I missing something here?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 285434,
      "EditedText": "That is correct. If I were a doctor in Easterhouse who was stressed because of the drugs problems there, and someone asked me to collect some data—without saying what those data were for—I would be inclined to give my attention to the drug addicts and the problems of the area, rather than to data capture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 285436,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy, you are straying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 285439,
      "EditedText": "If she had been here on time—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 285443,
      "EditedText": "That is all very well, but PFI will affect hospitals in a major way. With respect, I would like to hear the BMA's view on that and on what protection the formula may offer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 285447,
      "EditedText": "It is a direction that the public would like us to take."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 285451,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Garner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 285453,
      "EditedText": "I will ask Mr Hide to respond to the first part of the question, about data verification and the quality of the data."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 285455,
      "EditedText": "A levelling down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 285457,
      "EditedText": "That is a valid point and illustrates the difficulty of the existing collection system, which everyone accepts is not tremendously reliable. All it does is count the number of consultations. It does not count telephone consultations, which are an increasing proportion of consultations in affluent areas, or nurse consultations, or the duration of any consultation. Mr Hide is right about the accuracy of hospital data. Millions are spent on it. The collection of data from general practices is much poorer. Figures are based on only 6 per cent of practices, which volunteer to collect data and are not usually aware of the purposes for which they will be used. There must, therefore, be considerable doubts about the validity of the data, and the point that Grampian makes is fair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 285459,
      "EditedText": "That point was raised in other submissions. Lothian Health said that the report does not reward innovation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 285464,
      "EditedText": "Would it be acceptable in written form?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 285467,
      "EditedText": "It would seem more likely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 285468,
      "EditedText": "You did not say it was more likely, you said it was those with time on their hands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 285469,
      "EditedText": "It is hard to explain otherwise the fact that a significantly lower percentage of practices in highly deprived areas collect data. As a practising GP, if I were hard-pressed I would be more likely to give time to patient care than to number collecting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 285471,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we would have inferred that from your comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 285474,
      "EditedText": "In that case, can we review our position?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 285477,
      "EditedText": "Does the report reinforce perverse incentives?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 285481,
      "EditedText": "I have a particular interest in community care and resource transfer from health boards to local authorities. I notice that your contribution mentions the difficulties that are caused by variations in funding from one local authority to another. There appears to be evidence that not every local authority in Scotland is spending the indicative amount for community care. How could the variations in funding between local authorities affect levels of demand on the health service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 285482,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point. Arbuthnott does not take existing provision into account in assessing social services resources, but it is a major indication for hospital and general practice services. For example, an inadequate number of nursing home beds creates a backlog of patients who are waiting to be discharged from hospital because there are no nursing home places to move them to. They are the so-called blocked beds; their number varies according to the availability of nursing home beds. In the community, the provision of support services such as home helps has major implications for patients' ability to receive care in their own homes instead of in a hospital bed. There are many areas in which social service facility provision is an important determinant of health needs and health provision requirements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 285484,
      "EditedText": "You are quite right. The problem is one of the availability of real, funded nursing home beds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 285485,
      "EditedText": "We had a submission from a representative of the health councils, who posed a question about health board boundaries and structures and suggested that, for some acute services, it may be more appropriate to consider provision in bigger areas. The converse of that view was the suggestion that, for other services, it might be more appropriate to consider different ways of delivering and holding funds accountable. Kay mentioned bedblocking, but that is not so much an issue of money being available as about money being inappropriately spent on people in the wrong type of facility. Does the BMA think that the provision of community care services would be better managed through one source to get better use and more accountability?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Garner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 285486,
      "EditedText": "I will start with the first point about health board boundaries. After the acute services review, we are already examining the provision of services across health board boundaries and the development of the managed clinical networks. That is in its infancy but it is an exciting scheme that will enable us to deliver a better quality of care without there being any postcode-type health board boundaries. That is starting to happen now and we support it.In answer to the second point, about community care, local health care co-operatives have just been established. We want to encourage dialogue between social services in the LHCC areas and the medical and health facilities in those areas to see whether some form of joint funding can provide better care where the focus is on a smaller community. It is early days yet, but there is certainly potential in that scheme. The BMA does not have a view on whether there should be a single source of funding, but there should certainly be increasing dialogue and co-operation at LHCC level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 285487,
      "EditedText": "Unfortunately, colleagues, our time is limited. We shall have a supplementary question from Margaret Jamieson and then a final question from Hugh. After that, we shall have to call it a day. If we have a burning desire to ask any other questions, we can write to you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 285488,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the joined-up working of LHCCs and other agencies. I am aware that there have been pilot projects prior to the setting up of LHCCs. There was one in my constituency that involved GP practices and the social work department; the benefit to patients in the area was significant. The pilot project that I am talking about dealt mainly with the elderly, but it is clear that there would be benefits for people of all ages from the type of model that takes a holistic approach to health care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Garner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 285489,
      "EditedText": "We are enthusiastic about looking at examples of good practice. I am not sure which area you are talking about—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 285492,
      "EditedText": "No, but I am certainly familiar with some of the pilot schemes. The BMA strongly supports such pilots and the use of flexible budgeting at LHCC level. Unfortunately, we have not yet seen much sign of a general willingness on the part of social work departments to allocate specific budgets and resources at that level. I know that most LHCCs have invited social work departments to participate, but the uptake has been variable and the willingness to allocate budgets has been minimal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 285493,
      "EditedText": "I remember, Margaret, that we discussed the progress of LHCCs some weeks ago. The \"Designed to Care\" structure is something that the committee will want to come back to and monitor, and we will want to consider cases of good and bad practice. I call Hugh to ask the final questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2033E106P139C285503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ID": 7552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gray, Iain",
      "ID": 2033,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Pentlands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 285503,
      "EditedText": "I move, That the Health and Community Care Committee in consideration of the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (North Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/125) recommends that the Order be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ID": 7552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 285504,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ID": 7552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 285506,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2033E106P139C285509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ID": 7552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gray, Iain",
      "ID": 2033,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Pentlands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Gray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 285509,
      "EditedText": "No, thank you. My plate is extremely full, though not of scallops."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ID": 7552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 285510,
      "EditedText": "Although we do not want to damage the shellfish industry in Scotland any further, I do not think that committee members will want to see any shellfish for a considerable time.I suggest that we move to item 5, on future business. Item 4 concerns Dr Forbes's summation on the committee's further work on its draft report on Arbuthnott. However, we should try to keep draft reports under wraps in case our thunder is stolen. Are members agreed? It is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 285518,
      "EditedText": "Is it agreed that requests to meet the committee will be put in writing and circulated prior to decisions being made?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 285519,
      "EditedText": "Yes, with the proviso that, if a request is made to meet me, as the convener, I will circulate the details of that request via e-mail. If other members want to attend such meetings, they will be able to do so. However, organisations are making two distinct approaches: some want to speak only to me; others want to approach the entire committee formally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 285521,
      "EditedText": "Initially, it was intended to raise awareness, and I said that the committee would want to consider the issue. That was four months ago. My crystal ball does not always forecast as far ahead as it might. Although I thought that the committee might want to consider the issue, our present work load means that we should not do that. As convener, I am undertaking other work that week, to highlight HIV and AIDS as a continuing issue in Scotland. I will be doing other things in which other committee members will be invited to take part, outwith that week's formal committee meeting. That would be the best way for us to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 285522,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, is it not on the agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 285523,
      "EditedText": "The matter was there for discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 285524,
      "EditedText": "If someone is trying to discuss a topic rationally while it is still being raised as an issue, the chances are not good of arriving at a balanced view. We should take the issue off the agenda and return to it later, as there are problems that concern HIV treatment funding and the effect that it is having on the funding of treatment for drug addiction. There is an issue that must be addressed, but it is inappropriate to raise it while it is in focus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 285526,
      "EditedText": "You were absolutely right to act on your best intentions, initially, but the problem has caught up with us several months later. You might say that you intended the committee to address the issue, but our schedule has caught up with us. We should dedicate some time to it in the future. As you say, it is an on-going process: we do not want to appear good just for one day. Organisations might give you written submissions, which we could study later, on the adequacies or inadequacies in service provision. We could mark the day in that way, at least."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 285529,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 285530,
      "EditedText": "That will cause difficulties. I will attend a meeting of the European Committee in the afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 285531,
      "EditedText": "I cannot tell members immediately the constraints of the building, the rooms, and so on. However, it appears that we will have an accommodation problem if the meeting is held at another time on that day. If you leave that with me, I will find out whether the meeting can be held earlier in the day. I will check whether we can meet in the morning rather than the afternoon, but it appears that there will be a problem with the on-campus accommodation. We might have to go off campus. There are two or three options of which the clerks have been made aware. If the Health and Community Care Committee met in the morning, our reporter would have to be present at the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, to hear evidence that was being given to that committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 285535,
      "EditedText": "Could not we discuss the remit of the sub-groups on community care and public health and smoking on 15 December, rather than having a huge, general debate on community care? The sub-groups could then start their work in the new year. If we end the year with a long-drawn-out report, then go into recess, we will lose the momentum. I would rather that we started the new year knowing exactly what we intend to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 285540,
      "EditedText": "Yesterday afternoon, when I found out about this, I asked whether the minister and/or an official could stay on this morning and give us a briefing. Their timetable may not allow that, but somebody from the legal section should make us aware of exactly what our role would be.This is the first time that our committee has considered any legislation. If we are to do that, members of the committee are owed a certain amount of respect. We need to know what our role is and what we are expected to do.Before I come to Malcolm's question, I shall ask Jennifer to clarify the point about the financial resolution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 285543,
      "EditedText": "A written briefing has been prepared by SPICe. I have also been given some background information and explanatory notes to the bill. Do members have access to that information?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 285547,
      "EditedText": "It goes to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. It must reach it by 22 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 285549,
      "EditedText": "You suggested two possibilities, Margaret: one was to invite the minister to explain the bill and the other was to invite legal officers. I do not think that it would be helpful to invite any ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 285550,
      "EditedText": "We had a minister with us this morning and I asked whether—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 285553,
      "EditedText": "I do not think it is acceptable for this committee to meet at the same time as the European Committee. You may have answered this question already, but why are we not having a meeting on 10 November? Why is there no room when we are scheduled to meet every Wednesday morning? If there is no committee room available, it would still be better for us to meet somewhere that morning, rather than have a meeting on the 9th that half of the committee cannot attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285555",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 285555,
      "EditedText": "I cannot attend on 9 November—a lot of us cannot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285561",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 285561,
      "EditedText": "Can I clarify that the principle would be that the petition would come to the committee so that the committee could decide whether to look at it or not? That does not mean that we will look at every petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 285568,
      "EditedText": "That is the point. What exactly does the Public Petitions Committee do, if it does not say that the locus of this Parliament in relation to those petitions is to look at X? Hugh is right. If the Public Petitions Committee is simply forwarding petitions to us and saying that they are administratively correct—they meet the terms required of a petition—then the committees will be totally swamped by that process.This committee has decided that it must examine the process by which things were moved around in Stracathro. That is reasonable, but the Public Petitions Committee must act on the Parliament's behalf and it should have said that it thought that the petition was valid and that the Health and Community Care Committee might wish to look at the concerns of this group in relation to the process of what happened in Stracathro. We will not talk about the acute services review in relation to Tayside. If we do, we are lost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 285573,
      "EditedText": "I am not the convener of the Public Petitions Committee. You might like to take that up with him. There was a strong feeling that the way in which petitions were dealt with in Westminster could be improved. That process was not open and transparent and, because of that, there has been a view that this is a better way forward. If you look at previous meetings of the Public Petitions Committee, Hugh, you will see that the points that you and Richard have raised were raised several times by me in the initial meetings of the Public Petitions Committee. I know that you have better things to do with your time than to search out my words but, as a committee convener, I have the same concerns that you do. I can see what is going to happen in future when this route is better travelled by more people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 285574,
      "EditedText": "Can we refer our concerns to the Public Petitions Committee? Will you, convener, also tell the conveners group that this committee is concerned that the Public Petitions Committee should not be merely an administrative vehicle for passing petitions on to other committees, and then monitoring whether those other committees have examined the petitions?The Public Petitions Committee should attempt to establish the role of Parliament and of specific committees in relation to specific issues, so that committees are charged with examination of those issues. Committees can then be held to account as to whether that has been achieved.If the Public Petitions Committee is simply a pass-through mechanism, then 129 MSPs will use it to play a local publicity game and the system will grind to a halt. We must give added value to the process and, so far, I cannot see what added value we have been asked to contribute.We should also, perhaps, refer our concerns to the Procedures Committee. That committee is examining a number of issues and this should be one of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 285575,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 285578,
      "EditedText": "The only danger is that flexibility and discretion are issues that are important to Mary Scanlon, but they might not mean the same to me. There will be 129 versions of flexibility and discretion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 285581,
      "EditedText": "Such guidelines will evolve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 285585,
      "EditedText": "If that committee is to be a sifter, then who decides on how the sift is done? Is that decided by the Public Petitions Committee or by the other committees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 285587,
      "EditedText": "I would volunteer, but I am a member of three committees at the moment so I will rule myself out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 285589,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that there are members who would like to do this but will be unable to do so due to pressure of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 285590,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to cope with the work that we have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 285591,
      "EditedText": "We need to look at the timetable of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 285592,
      "EditedText": "In the absence of a volunteer, I should act as reporter. However, as the Parliamentary Bureau has not come to an agreement on the election of deputy conveners, if I even leave this room to go to the toilet, the meeting stops. If our committee has to meet at the same time as the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, I cannot be the reporter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 285599,
      "EditedText": "What date is it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 285600,
      "EditedText": "We have a volunteer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 285604,
      "EditedText": "We should all say thank you to Ben Wallace for agreeing to act as the reporter.The clerks will give you a briefing after today's meeting, Ben.Any members of this committee are welcome to attend the meeting of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee on 9 November.Are we agreed that we can take the work programme on board, with the proviso that we will sort out the timetabling clashes?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 285609,
      "EditedText": "So that is next year's learning curve.I would like to draw the public part of the meeting to a close and move into private session to consider John Forbes's submission and to discuss the report without the presence of the official reporters and without the presence of the broadcasters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 285385,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:30"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7550,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 285386,
      "EditedText": "Let us begin this meeting of the Health and Community Care Committee. The first thing that we must do is discuss our line of questioning for the witnesses from the British Medical Association. We shall discuss that formally in private without the presence of the official report or the broadcasters. Is the committee agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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      "ID": 7550,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 285388,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 285389,
      "EditedText": "On resuming in public—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr John Garner (Chairman, British Medical Association Scottish Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 285391,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We are delighted to have this opportunity to give evidence to the committee and to answer members' questions. We are keen to contribute constructively to the debate on a range of issues about health and health care provision in Scotland. We are pleased that our invitation here today signals a much more open form of parliamentary democracy.The British Medical Association in Scotland represents about 13,000 members from all branches of the profession—medical students, junior doctors, consultants and general practitioners. That representation is channelled through the democratically elected Scottish council, of which I am privileged to be chairman.With me are Mr Rab Hide, a consultant neurosurgeon at the Southern general hospital in Glasgow and chairman of the consultants and specialist services committee of the BMA, and Dr Kenneth Harden, chairman of the Scottish general practitioners committee of the BMA and a GP in Glasgow. They will help to answer any questions.I will start with a few general remarks about the report \"Fair Shares For All\". Last year, the BMA's policy was encapsulated in two short statements. We said that the Government should continue to confront the most potent cause of poor health, which is poverty, and that we recognised that health was determined not only by health services, but by political, social, environmental and personal factors. We also called for the development of and wider use of health impact assessments in all areas of national and local public policy.We are very supportive of the aims of the Arbuthnott report to address health inequalities. We accept, however, that the Arbuthnott report covers only the division of the health service cake, which is only part of the answer in reducing health inequalities. In the past century, the principal improvements in health have come not from people like us—nurses and doctors—but through better sanitation and water supplies. In the next century, we hope, much will be achieved through better education, diet, housing, transport and the reduction of poverty. The BMA is concerned that Arbuthnott has not addressed the overall size of the cake. We would argue that a significant uplift in resourcing is needed to achieve the goal of health equality for all. We broadly welcome the report and the principles that underlie it. We recognise that, for acute services, the report represents only a small shift from the Scottish health authorities revenue equalisation formula, but that such fine tuning is important. Based on the evidence available to it, we acknowledge that the Arbuthnott review has produced a very professional report. We particularly liked the recommendation that evaluation and refinement should continue. We also agree that some areas, which are listed in the report, require additional research.We want the Health and Community Care Committee to consider the issue of unmet need, which is talked about a lot in the report, and how unmet needs vary across the country. Met wants can also vary across the country and must be provided for. Met wants are the things that the health service and taxpayers pay for but that may not result in positive health outcomes. Met wants could include, therefore, explaining to a 63-year-old fit male who comes into a surgery that he does not require a flu jag as he is not at risk—that takes time and resources. They may also include dealing with a drug addict who comes in for an increase in his drug prescription. That takes time, investment and resources, but it does not result in a positive health improvement. Met wants may also affect hospital accident and emergency departments. For example, a chap may return with a sore back because he wants an X-ray and a second opinion. Again, that is not improving health, but it is something that we on the front line, and especially in general practice, have to deliver. We want that area to be explored.The proposal to bring about changes to hospital and community funding though differential growth is welcome. However, the suggested time scale of six years is dependent on the size of those general and specific uplifts. A tension exists between the need for change and the need for minimal disruption. A low uplift in a potentially losing board would make it difficult for that board to fund new, essential developments. If the committee wants, we can talk about those developments.We are disappointed that the review did not propose that the additional resource provision should be targeted at the causes of health inequalities that have given rise to this redistribution exercise. We are keen that only effective treatments with positive and proven health outcomes should be used. Members may have seen The Scotsman on Friday, in which our colleague GPs in Easterhouse expressed their worries about the allocation of public moneys to baby massage, reflexology and acupuncture, which do not address the real problems of health inequalities in Easterhouse. Our members were concerned about that.Finally—and I know that this is an area of particular interest for the committee—we have major concerns about the suggested indicative allocations for non-cash-limited general medical services. We believe that further work and discussion is needed in those areas before implementation.We have three principal concerns. The first is the lack of a reality check, as we call it, on the proposed formula for the non-cash-limited GMS. The idea that there can be a reduction or a zero growth in GMS resource at a time when we are emphasising the shift of resources from secondary care to primary care is, in our view, untenable. Secondly, we have concerns about the way in which remoteness and rurality have been measured. Finally, we have concerns about the continuous morbidity recording in the report. Dr Kenneth Harden, who is the chairman of the Scottish general practitioners committee, is happy to give a short presentation on those three areas, if the committee wishes.Overall, the BMA is saying that the report represents a good start, but that more work needs to be done. We welcome the opportunity to be part of that additional work. Thank you, convener, for allowing us time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 285392,
      "EditedText": "We certainly intended to question you on two of those last three things that you mentioned, so it would be useful to hear from Dr Harden first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 285403,
      "EditedText": "That is worrying. I would like to continue the line of questioning that I started last week. Your submission states:\"We have a general concern that implementation of the report's recommendations will lead to a lowering of standards in those areas which are ‘closing'.\"I refer again to Lothian and the Highlands. Many specialist services are offered in Lothian, and the health board said that it would have to address that. The Highlands stand to lose not only GPs, but some of the specialist services that cannot be offered in remote rural areas. Do you share that serious concern?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 285407,
      "EditedText": "No. We get into trouble if we do that kind of thing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 285408,
      "EditedText": "That is a matter that concerns the English language as much as the Arbuthnott report, but I would be delighted to hear my colleagues' responses. I have my own thoughts about equity and equality of access."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Garner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 285412,
      "EditedText": "I accept what you say: the figures are indicative. We are questioning whether they are correct. We want to know whether there has been a sufficiently full analysis of GP work load in tackling health problems. We are not convinced that the figures provide the right baseline."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 285416,
      "EditedText": "Clearly, the Scottish Medical Practice Committee is important in relation to the GMS that is not cash limited. To what extent are factors such as deprivation and inequality taken account of in the allocation of money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 285417,
      "EditedText": "As a member of the committee you mention, I am well placed to answer that question. At present, sparsity and rurality are taken account of by a formula that allows notional patients. Those formulae have not been used in the Arbuthnott report.The other aspect is that the Scottish Medical Practice Committee has limited powers to influence distribution. It ensures that areas are not over-doctored, but it has little power to deal with the more important issue of areas that are under-doctored."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 285425,
      "EditedText": "However, the request did go out to all GP practices?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 285429,
      "EditedText": "Something you said puzzled me. You started off by saying that certain things were recognised with payments, but that because no payments were made to GPs some were reluctant to participate. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 285432,
      "EditedText": "This is a resource issue. It is not about the GP wanting more money for himself, but about a greater input of general medical services being required. Let us take the example of a GP who has assumed the role of chairman of one of the local health care co-operatives. It is not expected that he will be able to do that job in addition to providing existing general medical services. Quite rightly, it has been recognised that he will need locum payments to cover his absence when he is away on local health care co-operative business. Similarly, if any sort of additional work load is created, there is the option of buying in extra locum help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 285433,
      "EditedText": "So any additional payments would have been used to purchase additional services, not to compensate GPs personally, and their reluctance to participate was the result of their inability to purchase extra services?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 285435,
      "EditedText": "One of the most frustrating things about this report is that a vast amount of work has been done on shifting money around—I call it spreading the margarine more fairly—but no extra money has been provided. I would like to refer you to a few points in your report.First, you say:\"the Review Committee obviously takes a different view of the reliability of hospital data to doctors, who generally have little confidence in such data.\"Could you expand a little on that?Secondly, do you consider that this formula gives local boards and local doctors any protection against private finance initiative developers influencing the number of staff employed in hospitals, as has already happened?My third point relates to the era of more expensive drugs that we may be entering. Multiple sclerosis patients have asked me about beta interferon prescribing in particular. Do you have any feedback on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 285437,
      "EditedText": "It is what the public wants to know, Margaret."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 285441,
      "EditedText": "Excuse me, convener, are you cutting me out on the PFI question, or are you saying that that matter has already been covered? I did not hear it being covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 285442,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that is the point of this morning's questioning, which is about the Arbuthnott report and the quality of the data that were available to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 285444,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy, you might like to hear the BMA's view on many things—I am interested to hear what the association has to say on any number of issues. No doubt, at some point in the future you will hear the BMA's view on PFI. Unfortunately, you will not hear it right now. What we are going to hear now is its view on the quality of the data that were available to Sir John and his team when they put together their report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 285446,
      "EditedText": "That is just offensive. After coming to the meeting late, Dorothy is attempting to take it in a totally different direction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 285448,
      "EditedText": "Has Dorothy seen the front page of today's Daily Record?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 285450,
      "EditedText": "Colleagues, I think that I have made my position on Dorothy's question clear. Is my decision backed by the majority of members of this committee? Is everyone happy that the questioning is going in the right direction?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 285452,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, you may continue, gentlemen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 285454,
      "EditedText": "If anybody around this table is not completely aware of the BMA's position—Laughter.One of the difficulties with data is that when they support people's own point of view, they think that they are great, and that when the data do not they think that they are flawed. That is always a problem. Data in the acute sector fall into three main areas: activity data, which are generated largely by trusts; work load data, which are collected by a combination of professionals and managers; and clinical data.Clinical data are flawed, in the sense that the coding exercise that takes place for individual patients is very often erroneous. However, the robustness of those data is acceptable overall, in a comparative sense. Those are the data that are produced by the information and statistics division. Because the data are wrong in detail, it would be difficult to use them to fine-tune things—to get accuracy, one would have to go back to the hospital in question and work through the basic records.Work load data are fairly well collected in the acute sector. It was necessary for trusts to develop quite robust systems during the purchaser-provider divide because their money depended on their getting clear and accurate evidence of activity. Those systems took a while to develop. The odd thing is that trusts have them in place now they no longer need them, whereas in the early stages of the purchaser-provider system they did not have the data.The problem with some of the activity data is that, generally, they do not quite fit with reality. For that reason, we suspect that inaccuracies are creeping in. As yet we have very little knowledge about, for example, out-patient data. Some of those data are probably quite significantly flawed. However, we can use postcodes to work out from which areas patients attending the out-patient clinics of hospitals are being referred.To sum up: the clinical data are flawed, but useful for comparison; the work load data are quite robust; and some of the activity data are erroneous. The difficulty is that unless someone else gathers the same data so that we can make comparisons, it is difficult to offer informed criticism. In some areas we have done that. I chaired part of the acute services review. When looking at neurosurgical activity, we went back to the operating books to see what operations had been done and compared that with the ISD data. Although the data were wrong in places, they were equally wrong for all, so they were still useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 285456,
      "EditedText": "Grampian Health Board is one of the major losers from GMS. Do you agree with its statement, that\"For non cash limited GMS the linkage to consultation rates has also been queried, as this process fails to recognise the complex national payment system in place where circa 60% of spend on GP services is driven by patient head count and not consultation rates.\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Garner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 285458,
      "EditedText": "Grampian may have made that point because it has been an innovator in primary care and may be ahead of other areas in moving to nurse consultations. You could argue that it has lost out because we are not counting nurse consultations. I do not know the answer, but that is a possible explanation for why it appears to be a bigger loser."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 285461,
      "EditedText": "That is a complex question. In broad terms, at least 10 per cent of practices should be included for validity and it should be a representative sample rather than a self-selected group—which may well be practices with more time on their hands and more interest in data collection.We would have to work out the cost implications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 285462,
      "EditedText": "Would you be able to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 285465,
      "EditedText": "Could you confirm that the practices that participate are those with more time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 285472,
      "EditedText": "I will not mention CMR in relation to hospital activity again, as I have one of the participating practices. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 285473,
      "EditedText": "He has time on his hands"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 285475,
      "EditedText": "My golf handicap does not bear that suggestion out—it has gone up by six.The answer that Dr Garner gave is correct. We should be able to restructure and to pass on some of the work to nurses and clerical staff. That is a very complex issue relating to inner-city practices and there is much material available on that, which the BMA will know about.I want to ask a general question about the hospital data. I accept Mr Hide's point about the out-patient data being inadequate. Does he agree that, regarding much of the activity data that were collected, there was almost a perverse incentive to generate activity? Patients were being kept in the secondary care sector inappropriately—and that is still going on. Does Mr Hide have any concerns about the way in which the Arbuthnott report approaches this issue? I ask that in relation to the perverse incentives that it offers by being based on historical data. Innovation is not rewarded, but activity is—even if that activity has been inappropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 285478,
      "EditedText": "In the sense that it reinforces the conservative elements in all the health care professions, I would tend to agree that it does.One must look at the future as well because patient expectations are extremely difficult to define. All the doctors round this table are well aware of the effects of the internet, of increased media interest in health care and of health care technologies. All doctors are subject to increased demands from patients to provide standards of care which, historically, there was neither the funding nor the organisation to provide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Garner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 285479,
      "EditedText": "I would like to say something in relation to Dr Simpson's point, which also relates to the transfer of resources from secondary care to primary care. Primary care has developed considerably, but Dr Simpson's point is that if we were to stick with historical models, resources would stay in the acute sector and would not be transferred to the community and other innovative health care.We need a formula that will not remain the same for 20 years, but will follow trends in innovation that might occur in the delivery of health care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 285483,
      "EditedText": "It is not usually a shortage of nursing home beds that is the problem; it is usually a shortage of funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 285494,
      "EditedText": "We probably do not have time for both my questions, but I would welcome written comments on my first point. I am concerned by the fact that the remoteness and the islands factor in the Argyll and Clyde Health Board area has not been properly recognised. That has been mentioned already, but I would welcome your further thoughts and suggestions on how that should be tackled. More generally, some of your comments are based on a presumption that more money is needed. A number of people have made that point, but we are here to look at a report with specific recommendations, notwithstanding your aspirations to have more money for health care in Scotland. You said that you welcomed the thrust of Arbuthnott. Given the fact that there might be no extra funds, do you think that the report, as brought forward, is the right report with the right recommendations, hitting the right targets and making the right contribution to the allocation of health resources in Scotland? Are there any significant changes that you think should be made to the report that have not been touched on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Garner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 285495,
      "EditedText": "The straight answer is yes. We welcome the Arbuthnott report, but it is a consultation exercise and we think that there should be some tweaking here and there. I hope that, before it is implemented, not as the green book, but with those points taken on board, we can improve on what Arbuthnott has produced. Our major reservation centres on the indicative GMS. As Mr Chisholm said earlier, it is indicative and we will not necessarily implement it at this stage. Generally, the BMA welcomes the report, recognises that it takes forward the debate on allocation, and supports it. Consultation is on-going and we believe that that process should continue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 285497,
      "EditedText": "The hospital sector is concerned that, without extra funding to oil the changes, there might be a distortion in funding between primary care and the acute sector, which could lead to difficulties in maintaining the service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 285499,
      "EditedText": "I shall ask the witnesses to expand on that in a further written submission. I am aware that our time and yours is constrained. Thank you for coming along and sharing your thoughts with us. As this is the first time that you have addressed the committee, I take this opportunity to record our thanks to your members for the incredible work that they do to promote all that is best in Scottish health. I am sure that we shall meet again. Thank you for your time.I shall suspend the meeting for a few minutes until the minister arrives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 285501,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ID": 7552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 285502,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Iain Gray to the committee once again. An affirmative SSI, the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (North Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/125), is before the committee. As we have already debated similar instruments, I do not expect us to debate this one again. I call the minister to move the motion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ID": 7552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 285505,
      "EditedText": "Committee members have raised the point that, under rule 10.6.2 of the standing orders, a member of the Scottish Executive or a junior minister must attend to move a motion proposing\"to the lead committee that the committee recommend that the instrument or draft instrument be approved\".I think that our ministers already have far too much on their plate to attend committees and move such motions. Although it is a useful practice to have a junior minister or an official before us to answer questions on important matters or to clarify technical points, it is an unacceptable use of our ministers' time for them to be obliged to attend our committee in order to place yet another affirmative SSI before us on an issue that we have tackled about 25 times. I mean no disrespect to Iain. Do committee members agree that we should raise the matter with the Procedures Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ID": 7552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 285507,
      "EditedText": "The committee of conveners is also making representations on the timetabling of SSIs, on explanatory notes for SSIs and on committees' need from time to time for officials to answer technical questions about the instruments. However, such sessions should be at the committees' discretion, instead of happening every time.Thank you, Iain. I think that our business is concluded. Do you want to stay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 285511,
      "EditedText": "Jennifer Smart, the committee clerk, will talk us through item 5."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 285513,
      "EditedText": "Our timetable, and the allocation of lead committees, were given to us only yesterday afternoon, so we have had to make the changes that we are putting to you today at short notice. I am aware that parts of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill will be quite contentious and therefore of interest to members. It is important for us to have an input at this early stage, looking at the general principles of the bill. The reporter system is probably the best way of doing that. Members should be considering whether they would like to put themselves forward as reporters.Because of the time required for our consideration of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, we have had an extension of the time available to consider Arbuthnott. However, that throws up situations such as that on 24 November, when we must consider Stracathro and the final report on Arbuthnott during the same meeting. That will be tight, because I expect that there will be four witnesses on Stracathro, and I had intended to allow a whole meeting for that. I would be interested to hear members' opinions on that.The request to consider world AIDS day was made to me personally some months back, probably within a week of the committee getting started. At the time, I said that world AIDS day might be the time to look at HIV and the progress that is being made on that. I am now aware that our time scales are tight, but the committee should make the decision on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 285515,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to accommodate that. This committee will be in the morning and the others will be in the afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 285527,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that that would be satisfactory. Does the committee agree? I want to proceed to the business of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill and the Arbuthnott report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 285536,
      "EditedText": "In that case, we should move the date for the reports on smoking, access and poverty from 17 November to 15 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 285538,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on the general points that Hugh Henry made about work load, timetabling and the starting times of meetings. There are two issues.I want to put on record the fact that I expressed my deep concern about the timetable for the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. We all knew that it was coming up, but I do not think that it is acceptable to have just one day's notice before we start to consider it. I have been informed that, because of the standing orders, we can do nothing but modify our schedule. I find that arrangement unacceptable.The matter was raised by another convener at the conveners meeting last night and that concern was echoed by other members. The matter is on the timetable for a future meeting of the conveners group. I do not want to be presumptuous, but I think that conveners feel that the way in which committees are being treated is not acceptable. If committees are to focus on reports, we cannot be forced to change our timetables at the last minute.I am aware that, while we are still in the middle of working on the Arbuthnott report, I for one will now have to turn my attention to the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. Both things warrant the full attention of members of the committee. We must not be made to feel that both cannot be adequately covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 285544,
      "EditedText": "Those documents are available in the document supply centre."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 285546,
      "EditedText": "After the bill comes before this committee for consideration of general principles, does it goes back into the chamber?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 285548,
      "EditedText": "We can attend the Justice and Home Affairs Committee to propose amendments at stage 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 285552,
      "EditedText": "That is what I meant by saying that, given the short notice, we should attempt to get a handle on what we are expected to do in relation to the bill, rather than being left with more questions and with, yet again, no one to ask."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 285554,
      "EditedText": "We would have to rejig everything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
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      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 285558,
      "EditedText": "I know that Mary said the Stracathro issue has moved on, but there is an issue of principle. There was a debate on Stracathro and now there is an attempt to bring it back to this committee. We need to decide whether matters that are the responsibility of health boards should come to us, given that we cannot change the views of health boards.In general, are we as a committee prepared to accept all local issues that are a source of concern? There could be similar issues in Fife and possibly in my own area. As a local member, I would not want to agree to certain things here and then find that, in my own area, similar things were not being properly attended to. If we are happy for a succession of local issues to come to the committee, we should say so up front so we can all raise issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 285559,
      "EditedText": "The Stracathro business was referred to us by the Public Petitions Committee. We discussed earlier the danger of looking at local rather than strategic and national issues. I certainly took the view that some of the things that people from Stracathro raised with us when we met them after a committee meeting, such as consulting with staff and similar issues, were the kinds of issues on which the committee could have some input.The Public Petitions Committee has asked us to address the Stracathro problem. That petition has 25,000 signatures on it. You might call me populist, but I think that we must do something with a petition of that size. The Public Petitions Committee is also aware of how things are moving through the committee structure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 285564,
      "EditedText": "Because loads of petitions come in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 285565,
      "EditedText": "Exactly, Margaret."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 285567,
      "EditedText": "As someone who sits on the Public Petitions Committee—although I must apologise for missing it yesterday—I would like to point out that there are a number of petitions undergoing consideration. Some committees are getting more of their work load in that way than others. So far, the impact of petitions on our work load has been quite slight. At one of the Public Petitions Committee meetings, five items were sent to the Transport and the Environment Committee. That committee could not set a precedent that because one of those five is something that it ought to consider, all five must be considered. Every Public Petitions Committee meeting that I have been at has resulted in the bulk of petitions being sent on to the Transport and the Environment Committee.The only way in which we can deal with petitions is to look at each one on a case-by-case basis as it comes to us. We must also bear in mind that the Public Petitions Committee is a vehicle of which many people are not yet aware. When it becomes a better-publicised, well-oiled machine, even more people will make use of it. The Public Petitions Committee is simply passing things along; it is not making judgments about the contents of the petitions. It is up to us as a committee to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 285569,
      "EditedText": "The Public Petitions Committee works in the way that you described. Petitions come forward and, if they are administratively correct, they are passed on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 285570,
      "EditedText": "We do not need a committee to decide that. That would be one committee less."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 285572,
      "EditedText": "Our clerical staff would be good at that. They could provide a turnaround timetable and state when the petition had to be returned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 285576,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 285579,
      "EditedText": "We will make decisions issue by issue in regard to the petitions that are brought before us. We are concerned about the way in which the Public Petitions Committee must function and that is reasonable because our work plan might be swamped because of that.This Parliament is trying to do things in a different way to Westminster and, although I can appreciate the thinking behind the actions of the Public Petitions Committee, we must say that it would be helpful if the Public Petitions Committee were more specific regarding the remit that they are passing forward. That committee should not simply take a petition lock, stock and barrel and pass it on.You and I might be more likely to think of a petition as something which someone has gone round the doors with and collected 25,000 signatures on, but a petition can come from any member of the public in Scotland. There are petitions from individuals and petitions from 25,000 people. That provides wide scope to affect the work of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 285580,
      "EditedText": "I would like to come back to the point. If we do that to the Public Petitions Committee, we must send them guidelines on what we feel we are competent to deal with. As a result, when a health petition comes before them, they will know what we will and will not consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 285582,
      "EditedText": "No. I do not want to get into the specifics of the technicalities of the Public Petitions Committee, but we cannot do that at the moment, Ben. We will tell the Public Petitions Committee and, I hope, the Procedures Committee and the conveners group in what direction we think we are going to have to work. My understanding is that the Public Petitions Committee is there to pass petitions on. As far as I am aware, the only thing that that committee has said no to is a petition that was procedurally wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 285583,
      "EditedText": "What is the point of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 285588,
      "EditedText": "I will rule myself out, too."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 285598,
      "EditedText": "The reporter would serve as a sort of early warning system. Also, having a member of this committee attending that committee would allow us to ask questions at an early stage.As you can imagine, Duncan, only having had since 4 o'clock yesterday afternoon to deal with this has not allowed us to come up with anything more than the suggestions that we have in front of us.Do we have any volunteers at all?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285602",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 285602,
      "EditedText": "It is on a Tuesday morning, Ben."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 285606,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate the patience of the committee members and, as Margaret Jamieson suggested, we will try to ensure that we are in a much better position to concentrate on the matter in hand in the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 285608,
      "EditedText": "Not this year. We will have extra work next year, though."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C285610",
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    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285387",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7550,
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 285390,
      "EditedText": "I welcome our visitors from the BMA. Good morning, gentlemen. Please introduce yourselves to the committee and, if you want to, give a short statement to precis some of the points in your written submission. We will then ask you questions about your submission and about the report in general."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285394",
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      "ID": 1690
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 285394,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that full and useful statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 285395,
      "EditedText": "I have quite a few questions. As a member for the Highlands and Islands, I was delighted by the report, because we seemed to be one of the winners. However, my delight was short lived because you say in your submission that the Highlands will lose 20 to 30 GPs. You also say that Orkney will lose 40 per cent of its GPs, that Shetland will lose 33 per cent of its GPs and that the Borders will lose half its GPs. We are looking towards primary care for health promotion, monitoring heart disease and meeting the Government's targets, but if the money is not going to primary care, where is it going?The second point that you raised was the transfer of resources—that issue was also raised by Graham Watt. We have a concern about the volume of the transfer of resources from secondary to primary care. How can we be sure that the resources will address poverty, inequality and deprivation? If the Highlands are going to benefit, how can we be sure that the crucial problems of poverty and deprivation will be met by those resources? It looks as though the money is going into a big pot—beyond that, it is neither monitored nor checked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 285397,
      "EditedText": "If I might correct you, the figures for the Borders seem, in your submission, to suggest a reduction in the number of GPs from 77 to 38.5—a 50 per cent reduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285400",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 285400,
      "EditedText": "The proposed formula poses a real danger and we welcome the fact that the Arbuthnott committee has suggested that the GP formula is purely indicative and out for consultation. The committee recognises, following our discussions with it, that there are major disadvantages, or defects, in the proposed system, which must be considered. As you rightly point out, if the proposed changes were made—for example, in the Borders, in Shetland or in Orkney—they would have major detrimental effects on the provision of GP services in those areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 285402,
      "EditedText": "You are absolutely right, Dr Simpson. If this formula were applied now, it would have a major destabilising effect on services in those areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 285406,
      "EditedText": "I will turn my microphone off to answer that question if I may, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 285411,
      "EditedText": "I would like to consider further the numbers of GPs, as that was the headline story on the radio this morning and I suspect that it will be in the headlines after today's committee. Your submission contains other important points, but we need to clarify what we are talking about.I understand that the cash-limited GMS will kick in more slowly than the main parts of the Arbuthnott recommendations; as the GMS that is not cash limited is just indicative, it could be argued that it will not kick in at all. Perhaps it is misleading to cite those GP figures, because to do so implies that the changes will be made immediately.The general model for Arbuthnott is that changes will kick in according to the growth rates in the health budgets—I agree with Dr Garner that that is right. If that is true for the GMS figures as well, what is being suggested is a levelling up and there should be no cuts in the GMS budgets. If that is what Arbuthnott intended, would you be happy with that?The professor of general practice at Glasgow—although Glasgow gains from the change in formula—suggested to us that not enough account has been taken of factors such as deprivation and inequality. Do you accept that adjustments will have to be made to GMS? If the adjustments involved a levelling up, would you be happy to accept them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 285413,
      "EditedText": "I accept what you are saying. I am aware that there are differences of opinion on this matter, but the professor of general practice at Glasgow said that if length of consultation and co-morbidity were taken into account, the adjustment might be large rather than small. That is open to question, obviously, and your point is that you want more work to be done on the figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 285415,
      "EditedText": "That is an important issue. We are suggesting not that there is no need for a formula, but that the formula is not based on evidence. It is based on an inappropriate sample, using inappropriate techniques.You said that we should not worry too much about the figures, as they are only indicative. However, many of us have seen indicative models rapidly become real models. If we do not register our objections to the basic principle and start to gather robust data, there is a major danger that inappropriate models will be imposed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 285418,
      "EditedText": "Does the SMPC take inequalities into account?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Garner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 285422,
      "EditedText": "Dr Simpson made a point about the size of the development money. If a board has only a health-based rate of inflation, it will have no ability to resource essential new developments that come automatically. An example of that would be the introduction of the statins. They will be available throughout Scotland and will cause a significant increase in the health budget. The losing boards need an ability to stand still as well as some money for essential new developments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 285423,
      "EditedText": "In terms of CMR, you said that volunteer practices were atypical, Dr Harden. How were those volunteer practices identified? Were they identified through the British Medical Association?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 285426,
      "EditedText": "Only to those with particular computer systems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 285427,
      "EditedText": "I see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 285438,
      "EditedText": "I gave you a certain amount of leeway when you pinched Margaret Jamieson's question, but you are now going into all sorts of other areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 285440,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy's key question was about the quality and availability of the data. In their oral and written submissions, several people have told us that they do not have a problem with the theory of this report, but with the fact that, if that theory is based on inadequate data or data that are rooted more in the acute services than in the primary and community services, it is very difficult to get a picture of future need, rather than a snapshot of the situation in the past. Could you comment on the reliability of the data, identifying any key gaps? We have already picked up on some of those."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 285445,
      "EditedText": "We are definitely in the new democracy, then. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 285449,
      "EditedText": "I have not read the Daily Record yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 285460,
      "EditedText": "Hugh Henry made a point about payment. If the 6 per cent you mentioned is inadequate, what would you deem adequate? Have you estimated the cost if that proportion is changed? Presumably it would have serious implications for any future review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 285463,
      "EditedText": "Certainly, with the help of our experts, we can estimate the costs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 285466,
      "EditedText": "I did not understand that either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Garner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 285470,
      "EditedText": "I think all GPs would argue that they are hard-pressed. We are talking about general practices that have the resources to restructure the working environment to allow them to co-operate in data collection. I would not want the committee to be given the impression that there are GPs sitting around waiting to collect figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hide: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 285476,
      "EditedText": "One always has some reservations about looking backwards and building a base on what has gone before without considering what will happen in the future.It is always possible that doctors will be said to be gaming with the system. Figures can be manipulated honestly and patients can be kept in for longer, but that was not done by clinicians. It was done by managers because—for obvious reasons—they had a major vested interest in ensuring that they maximised activity. That has not been the case since the end of the division between purchaser and provider and since the move towards more co-operative developments in health care.It is in the interests of managers and doctors to be honest and accurate. That is the way ahead that will generate the changes that most of us wish to see in the health service. Your second point was about what, Dr Simpson?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 285480,
      "EditedText": "It was said earlier that this report is about how we carve up the health service cake, and that that is only a part of the wider picture for health care. Kay has a question that leads on from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 285490,
      "EditedText": "Newmilns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Garner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 285491,
      "EditedText": "Do you know about that project?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harden: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 285496,
      "EditedText": "The issue of remoteness is complex, and I will be happy to answer Hugh Henry's question in writing. We are not convinced that remoteness has been properly addressed, particularly for GMS. The major differences in allocation between the comparable areas of the Borders and Dumfries and Galloway are quite clear. The Argyll and Clyde area is another example of incongruity, perhaps because of the fact that there is a huge, high-density population in Paisley, while the rest of the area is sparsely populated, which might produce spurious and inappropriate results."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 285498,
      "EditedText": "What is meant by distortion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0860235+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7551,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 285500,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 7552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ID": 7552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 285508,
      "EditedText": "The minister can stay if he wants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 285512,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for the late arrival of the paper. The committee's future business has been fluid in the past couple of days because of the timetabling of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. A motion has been lodged that makes the Justice and Home Affairs Committee the lead committee and the Health and Community Care the secondary committee on the legislation. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee is hearing oral evidence today and will meet again on 9 November. Given the committee's short time scale for stage 1 consideration of the bill, I suggest that this committee appoint a reporter to attend Justice and Home Affairs Committee meetings and to prepare a report on the bill's general principles as they relate to this committee's health remit.Furthermore, we have to consider the timetable for the Arbuthnott report. Our work on Arbuthnott today should lead to the preparation of a draft report that will be discussed with the convener at some point up to 15 November.On 16 November, there will be an additional meeting to consider both the report on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill, which we will pass to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, and the draft report on Arbuthnott. Discussion of the latter, it has been suggested, should be in private. I imagine that the committee would wish to keep that in private at that stage.On 17 November, the minister and deputy minister, Susan Deacon and Iain Gray, will attend the committee, to answer questions that members submitted some time ago, and other questions on general topics. There is also a negative instrument to be considered, and reports will be back from the three groups reporting on smoking, access and poverty.Given that timetable, consideration of the Stracathro petition will be on 24 November, as will the consideration of the final report on Arbuthnott. The Arbuthnott deadline has now been moved to 3 December, which is why we can spread the consideration of the report to 24 November.On 1 December, the committee has to decide whether it wishes to consider world AIDS day, and has to approve its final report on Arbuthnott, which is to be submitted to the Executive on 3 December. Some of the evidence that has been submitted to the community care inquiry will be considered by 15 December, when a forward work plan for that inquiry may be decided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 285514,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure exactly what is happening on 16 November, but I am concerned about this committee being scheduled at the same time as others. If there has to be a meeting that week, can it be scheduled so that it does not clash with another committee? I have the Equal Opportunities Committee on that Tuesday, and I am sure that lots of other people have committees on that day as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 285516,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to comment on world AIDS day at the moment but, in general, I am aware of people writing to the committee to ask to give evidence. Can those letters be listed, so that we know who is asking to speak to us? The committee could then make decisions on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 285517,
      "EditedText": "There are different approaches. Some people make an approach to me as convener and want to talk only to me. Others are more formal and wish to come before the committee. I e-mailed members to tell them that—if they agreed—whenever I had meetings with people as the convener, I would circulate information to other members if there was evidence that they might want to hear. I am aware that our work schedule will not allow all the people who want to speak to the committee to give evidence. I understand that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 285520,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to appear to take a harsh view on that issue. However, although we should address the matter, what will we achieve by that? Is it simply an awareness-raising exercise, or will the committee assume responsibility for action?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 285525,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee share that view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 285528,
      "EditedText": "Will our meeting on 9 November be rescheduled for 2 pm?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 285532,
      "EditedText": "The Justice and Home Affairs Committee is meeting on 9 November at 9.30 am.We need to be a bit more careful, generally, about the meetings that we schedule and when we schedule them for. I am convener of another committee, with the responsibilities that go along with that. Just as you, convener, have requests to meet people and organisations, I have other things to do. The frequency and length of the meetings that are being scheduled for this committee make it difficult to fit everything in, especially given the starting time of some meetings. It takes some of us two and a half to three hours to get to Edinburgh in the morning. If the committee wants only to respond to the needs of people who live in and around Edinburgh, that is fine, but tell us that. If not, there is a fundamental question about the timing and frequency of meetings, and the fact that they clash with the other demands that members must address. We may have to get through the next few weeks and fulfil the commitments that have been made, but I am not prepared to go on in this way in the new year. It is unacceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 285533,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I can do justice to the work of the sub-groups that have been set up on smoking, access and poverty, given our work load. I am keen to participate, but if we spread ourselves too thinly, we are not going to achieve anything. Smoking, access and poverty are huge issues. I want to ask committee members to reconsider our decision. I would rather do the job properly than see it half-done.Things have also moved on at Stracathro. We must make seeing the people from there a priority, whether we go to Brechin or Montrose to see them or they come here.I ask that we consider leaving the work of the sub-groups until the new year to allow us to meet all the committee's commitments in a professional and responsible manner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 285534,
      "EditedText": "The reason that I wanted to discuss the sub-groups was that I was aware that it was several weeks since they had been set up. I know that members have not taken evidence or made particular progress, but have met one another to discuss the issues. It is crucial that we outline the remit and timetable for the sub-groups' work. The remit of the poverty sub-group can become tighter, if that is what members decide. The timetable can also be a lot longer. The scope is there for members to say that, although they want to consider the issues, it will take longer than a month—perhaps six months—to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 285537,
      "EditedText": "We must discuss the remit and the plans for those reports on that date, not the substantive issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 285539,
      "EditedText": "How soon can we expect a briefing on the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 285541,
      "EditedText": "The bill was introduced on 8 October. It has a financial resolution that, under rule 9.12.6 of the standing orders, has to be passed within three months. Because of the October recess and the December and January recess, the time available to the committee to consider the bill is truncated. The timetable has been approved by the Parliamentary Bureau and by the convener of the lead committee, the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. As a secondary committee, we have to report to that committee.We are considering only the general principles at this stage. That does not restrict members from lodging amendments or considering the bill during debates in Parliament at stages 2 and 3. Any member can lodge amendments to the bill at those stages. The committee will be taking a narrow look at the bill at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 285542,
      "EditedText": "Will we have a briefing in good time? I would not like to get the briefing on 16 November. This is the first time that we have dealt with legislation, and I would like to think that we will be better briefed than we have been in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 285545,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that the clerks order up copies for all members to ensure that everyone has them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 285551,
      "EditedText": "That would not have been helpful; it would have confused us. We do not want to duplicate the work of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, so it would be helpful if someone can clarify our role and explain what is required of us, legally and procedurally. Perhaps we could have a brief on the issues we should look at as a committee so that we do not wander all over the place and waste time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 285556,
      "EditedText": "We will try to move the meeting. Our initial intention was to meet fortnightly, not weekly, but the work load has changed. There is a problem with the availability of rooms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 285557,
      "EditedText": "Given that we would be meeting to consider the interim reporter's findings, it would be appropriate to meet in private session so that we do not have to bother about microphones and suchlike. A meeting that people can attend would be preferable to one with microphones and nobody to speak into them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 285560,
      "EditedText": "I am not objecting to that. All I am saying is that I want a principle established that if other issues from other committees come to us in that way, we will have a procedure for dealing with them. We must be clear that we are setting precedents. Once that is done, others have the right to expect us to continue in that way, and the expectation that we will deal with everyone equitably."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 285562,
      "EditedText": "Why not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 285563,
      "EditedText": "We must exercise judgment as to whether or not we want to look at a petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 285566,
      "EditedText": "Would we not review each petition on a case-by-case basis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 285571,
      "EditedText": "The other aspect of the Public Petitions Committee's work is that it monitors what has happened to those petitions it has referred on. You may laugh, Hugh—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 285577,
      "EditedText": "I agree that that is a fair point, but the structure should not be so rigid that people feel that they do not have access to it. Flexibility and discretion should be used occasionally and the Public Petitions Committee should not be seen as an obstacle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 285584,
      "EditedText": "I tried to outline to you the thinking in terms of openness and transparency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 285586,
      "EditedText": "We should put forward our general concerns about how the system functions. We can then hear back from the Public Petitions Committee and the Procedures Committee. If those committees require more information from us regarding those concerns, we will supply it. I will speak to Murray Tosh about this issue.I would like to move the committee on to two of the main things that we still have to do in relation to the report. Section 4.2 asks us to consider part 5 of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill and to agree the appointment of a reporter on the bill. The reporter will have to listen in to what the Justice and Home Affairs Committee is doing with the bill and will be able to attend that committee's meetings.Would anybody be willing to act as a reporter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 285593,
      "EditedText": "Would it be possible for the reporter simply to read copies of the Official Report of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee? Why does anyone have to attend the committee's meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 285594,
      "EditedText": "As you know, we have a problem in terms of the time that it takes for the Official Report to be published, which means that the reporter might not see a copy for a few days.Another aspect is that a reporter who attended the meeting would be able to ask questions, as would other members of this committee who chose to attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 285595,
      "EditedText": "There would be a time lag between the meeting of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the report of whoever had attended the committee anyway, so what are we losing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 285596,
      "EditedText": "That is true, but that time would allow them to formulate some of the points that were raised that were relevant to health."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 285597,
      "EditedText": "I am not trying to be awkward but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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      "ID": 7553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 285601,
      "EditedText": "One never volunteers for anything in the army but I will volunteer for this because I cannot stand waffle and I want to get something done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 285603,
      "EditedText": "I will do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 285605,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1690
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 7553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 7553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 285607,
      "EditedText": "Something has just occurred to me, although I might be making an elementary error. I have not read the minutes of the Finance Committee's last meeting—perhaps Richard Simpson can help me—but I understand that we have new procedures on budgets. I thought that committees had a role in scrutinising the budget at this stage. Will we have more work that we have not taken account of?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.1016517+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 105352,
      "EditedText": "Fiona is right to press the matter. The situation has been going on for some time and, for a variety of reasons, we have continued to put the matter back. There might be a compromise. The Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport is coming next week. If we take on board one or two suggestions, we can probably find a way forward. Could we ask the minister or the Executive to provide us with certain pieces of information prior to the minister's appearance next week, so that we know what questions are pertinent and how to ensure that we get the answers? It would be good to have a section in next week's meeting, after the minister's evidence—timetabled on the agenda—to discuss what action, if any, the committee wants to take, so that, if we decide that the minister's answers have not satisfied our concerns, we can make progress on the matter. Fiona's two suggestions provide us with a way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 105402,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, Scottish history is an important topic, but I suggest that we leave a major inquiry into it until the next parliamentary year, possibly taking the Scottish Consultative Council on the Curriculum report on culture and history in the curriculum as a starting point.A major inquiry into infrastructure is very important. I want to record my desire to include a purely objective examination of the educational impact of the private finance initiative deal in Glasgow as part of that inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 105328,
      "EditedText": "I gave notice to Gillian Baxendine and to you that I would like to have an investigation into the national funded arts companies in order to assist in the process of deciding which companies should be funded. I know that that topic is on the work programme already, but the matter has moved on since it was first included, so we should address it in the near future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 105329,
      "EditedText": "Cathy, do you wish to expand on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 105332,
      "EditedText": "It is important that the minister discusses the national companies, and particularly Scottish Opera, with us next week. Cathy is correct: the crisis surrounding Scottish Opera, on which the committee and others should have more information, is one issue in a complex web of issues, such as the merger and the possibility that debt will be carried into it. Brian Monteith is right to say that there is an active debate on a national theatre. The Scottish Arts Council and the companies constantly complain that there is a shortage of money for the national companies. Cathy Peattie is right that the committee should take formal evidence over a couple of meetings on those issues and produce a report on the national companies. That would help the debate, and open up the issue of what has happened at Scottish Opera, in the hope that it does not happen again, because members will know that this is the third occasion on which the company has faced such a crisis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 105336,
      "EditedText": "We can take that on board later on, when we are looking at items for future discussion and inquiry. With regard to the national companies, members will be aware that the time that will be available to us at the end of November and the beginning of December will be curtailed by our involvement with the forthcoming education bill. I suggest that we hold a short inquiry—only a couple of meetings—to investigate the present situation of the national companies.Members will be consulted about people whom it would be appropriate to invite to answer questions and discuss the situation. We will probably set aside two meetings to conduct that inquiry. The committee will then put together a report giving our views and recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 105337,
      "EditedText": "Can we be assured that we will receive briefings, and that the committee will be resourced before it takes evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 105346,
      "EditedText": "The committee is aware that the Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport will attend the meeting next week. We have agreed that that meeting will examine the cultural strategy, but that the minister should also be asked to address the issue of Hampden. More information has come to light since we agreed that. Getting the relevant information at that meeting will be an important starting point, from which we can decide how to proceed. The difficulty will be how we timetable two inquiries at the same time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 105347,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that meeting the minister next week is the starting point. The starting point should be today—it should have been in September. We are watching a drip-drip revelation through the media. We are talking about £40 million of public money, and cannot keep putting off the matter. This committee, as the sports committee, has responsibility to examine the use of public money. We cannot keep sitting back to wait for the Executive to tell us what it is doing, as the answers that we have had from the Executive so far tell us nothing, or tell us that it is not going to tell us anything.We need to take responsibility and launch an investigation rather than wait to ask the minister questions, which on current form will not be answered. I have a few specific points for the committee to get on with. Before Rhona Brankin comes next week, we must tell her that we want full details of the package that has been worked out, so that we can investigate it and decide whether it is suitable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 105349,
      "EditedText": "May I finish?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 105351,
      "EditedText": "We want a copy of the consultants' interim report because, again, we are learning things through the media about that report, about which Mr Galbraith has refused to answer questions in Parliament. I would also suggest that we launch our own investigation, taking written and oral evidence from those involved to find out exactly what is going on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 105353,
      "EditedText": "Nicola's approach is much more sensible, with respect. I would be happy to see a briefing note or statement prepared by the Executive, to show the extent to which there is a move towards a conclusion in the negotiations on what is clearly a package to rescue the project. I am very unhappy, however, about our levering ourselves into what may be delicate negotiations at this stage. I am perfectly happy to have a view taken on the matter at the appropriate time, but I do not think that this is the appropriate time. However, it is the appropriate time for the minister to give us a full and clear briefing on progress to date. I concur with Nicola to that extent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 105355,
      "EditedText": "I have no doubt that we can ask the right questions. I will now say something on what I was going to ask Fiona originally: I am not sure that, at this stage, we could have a constructive discussion on what is going on, because we do not have all the information. I accept that the committee has been patient in trying to get questions answered and to obtain information. There are sensitive questions, which should be answered. Nicola's suggestions are about preparing the questions and information on which we would like to be briefed before next week's meeting. We could then put questions that would extract the information that we need. That is probably the most sensible way to go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 105357,
      "EditedText": "As Mike said, the committee has to send out a clear message. There is great public concern about what is happening. We must show that we share that concern and accept our responsibility for the matter.As I said, Rhona Brankin appearing before the committee next week should not be the start of the process, but part of it. I would like us today to make it clear to the minister, before she comes, that we want copies of the consultants' report, a clear breakdown of the funding—who it is coming from and how it is being applied—and the dates of all the meetings of the co-funders that have taken place so far. We want to be clearly informed. In a written answer to me on 26 October, the Minister for Children and Education said:\"The consultants' reports contain commercially sensitive information. It would not be appropriate to publish them.\"—Official Report, Written Answers, 26 October 1999; Vol 3, p 18.I do not think that it is appropriate for a minister to say that a committee of the Parliament cannot have access to those documents to inform its decisions. We must be very clear to Rhona Brankin about what we want."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 105362,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 105364,
      "EditedText": "I take the opposite view from Ian and want that recorded. The committee has a responsibility for the use of public funds. There has been a drip-drip of information through the media. Ian says that we should not get involved in delicate negotiations. What we know of the negotiations so far suggests that they are working against the public interest. It is the committee's public responsibility to work for that interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 105367,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to record that comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 105371,
      "EditedText": "I am conscious that we are in danger of repeating a previous exercise and producing a big wish list. I will pick up on some of the points made by Nicola Sturgeon and Brian Monteith. As Nicola said—I think everybody agrees—we should examine special needs. It is difficult to decide whether we should deal with that subject before the minister comes back to the committee, but it is missing from the bill and we do not know whether he will change his mind about it after the consultation. As we are concerned about whether the bill should cover it, perhaps we should have an inquiry into it before the minister comes back.There are a lot of issues that I would like to discuss, but we must prioritise. Brian raised curricular issues, which I would be keen to examine as, again, the bill does not cover them. The broader question of what education is for is also missing from the bill. We should consider issues such as why we are educating our children, good citizenship and sustainable development. Brian mentioned maths and Scottish history. Those are broad subjects and, although I do not know quite how we would focus an inquiry, we should consider them.A point that emerged from a trip that Fiona McLeod, Ian Welsh and I made to a school this week was how children learn. Understanding of the process of learning has developed significantly in recent years, so there is a lot for us to examine. That might cross over into early intervention and early-years education as well. I am not sure whether that helps us to make progress or just adds another couple of issues to the list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 105375,
      "EditedText": "I echo what Mike Russell has said. He has given an incisive view of the role of this committee and we should take that up and run with it. As both Mike and Nicola have said, we have asked about infrastructure before; Sam Galbraith himself responded by saying that the issue should be considered. Nicola talked about rural schools. In Highland region, we have been through a tortuous process in recent years, as it became almost an annual fixture to shut a number of schools. Last time, thank goodness, we saw off that threat, but for the sake of children and their parents and communities this committee must make a contribution to solving the problem. The system simply cannot go on. Not only does it cause huge upset, but the removal of a school can gut a small rural community. When a little place such as Drumbeg loses its school, it is in trouble.I do not know whether we should change the powers that the Secretary of State for Scotland used to have or whether we should legislate to give different pointers to councils. I would like some advice about that. The process of closing rural schools may have stopped in Highland, but it is still going on in Argyll. If we believe in education in its broadest sense, I urge committee members to make the closure of rural schools a priority issue. It matters a great deal in my part of the world."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 105384,
      "EditedText": "I raised the point so that it would be recorded. There is an issue regarding the operation of committees. The standing orders, as I understand them, were designed to allow any member to address an issue in a committee. They were not designed to allow for additional full-time members. I welcome Sylvia's contribution, but we do not want to end up with the balance of committees being disrupted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 105393,
      "EditedText": "Before we make a decision on a rapporteur for Scottish history, I would like us to invite a delegation from the organisation responsible for the delivery of history teaching in Scottish schools to tell us what goes on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 105394,
      "EditedText": "That is what the rapporteur would find out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 105398,
      "EditedText": "I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 105399,
      "EditedText": "I would prefer to hear what the professionals have to say about the issue first. Afterwards, the committee can take a view as to whether the teaching of history is inadequate or not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 105400,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on, can you remind me, Ian, of the other topics that you suggested?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 105411,
      "EditedText": "Nicola Sturgeon mentioned the McCrone committee. Although we do not want to duplicate that committee's work, we should at some point focus on how we can raise teachers' morale and help them take control of their profession. Our committee has a valuable role to play in that respect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 105413,
      "EditedText": "I agree totally that your second suggestion is the best way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 105414,
      "EditedText": "Reviews such as the national cultural strategy and the McCrone inquiry have been carried out or commissioned by the Government and we might want to comment on the recommendations of those reviews before they are implemented, or have some input into them. Nicola is right. As it is highly unlikely that we will agree with the McCrone committee, we will want to comment on its conclusions. On the other hand, we can have input into the national cultural strategy as ministers decide on the strategy's terms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 105415,
      "EditedText": "I disagree with Nicola. I think that we will have substantial agreement on the McCrone submission. However, that is a matter for another day.Presumably the report will have two consultation phases. The Education, Culture and Sport Committee could invite a range of interested parties to a day session—perhaps on a Saturday and perhaps not here. We could then submit the record of those events to the McCrone committee. That would be a productive way to engage in the debate and it would allow the community to participate in the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 105417,
      "EditedText": "Nicola and I obviously disagree on that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 105419,
      "EditedText": "Especially if Kilmarnock is playing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 105424,
      "EditedText": "That is the point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105427",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 105427,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The reporter on rural schools will be Jamie Stone. Fiona McLeod will report on consultation with children. I do not know whether Mike said yes or no to Scottish film."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 105428,
      "EditedText": "I am told that I said yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine (Clerk to the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 105433,
      "EditedText": "I was going to suggest that we bring a remit for each inquiry to the next meeting, so that they can be formally agreed. The remit would include the point about travelling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 105435,
      "EditedText": "I have a question for Gillian. What Mike says about infrastructure is correct, although I suspect that we are going to travel around looking at holes in roofs and speaking to directors of education who say that their revenue budgets are not big enough. What are we going to do about the Treasury side of the matter? Ultimately, it comes down to the public sector borrowing requirement, or private finance initiatives, or both. I suspect that we will need to have some financial input on the subject and I want to know how we go about getting that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 105437,
      "EditedText": "We could go to Thurso."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 105441,
      "EditedText": "Let us not get bogged down just yet in what we will be investigating. All those things are important and we must give them some time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 105443,
      "EditedText": "That point was mentioned during our visit last week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 105445,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should wait until later on. I thought that the committee was content with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 105451,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to consideration of the written evidence that we have received on the improvement in Scottish education bill. Does anybody have any comments on the submissions that have been circulated? I am sure that all members have read them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 105453,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is a great idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 105455,
      "EditedText": "It is rather like collecting bubble gum cards; there is bound to be one missing from the set. I would like to know which one it is so that I can swap with Karen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 105456,
      "EditedText": "We shall continue to issue submissions and summaries as they become available. I think that that concludes this item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 105460,
      "EditedText": "At this stage, do we want to invite the organisations that have been suggested? I think that we should."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 105465,
      "EditedText": "I agree entirely but, as our briefing paper suggests, we may wish to meet organisations that address concerns that the Executive is unlikely to address. That applies to many of the Gaelic organisations that believe Gaelic issues are not addressed in the bill. Could we add at least Comunn na Gàidhlig to the list, and possibly Comunn nam Parant, to determine whether they have an interest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 105467,
      "EditedText": "I am not proposing that we add to the list, but once the bill is produced, will we return to the written evidence that we have received and use it to decide whether we take oral evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 105468,
      "EditedText": "We can make decisions when the bill is produced. We are currently identifying people who we know we want to interview. I am sure that once we see the next draft of the bill other issues will arise that we must address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 105471,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure about the procedure and timing of discussing the bill. Could Steiner schools come and talk to us? I know that St Mary's is in the bill, but people feel that pluralism is not being addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 105476,
      "EditedText": "If there is to be consultation before the bill becomes law, Steiner schools ought to have the chance to state their case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 105477,
      "EditedText": "We are not making suggestions today about whom we should see: we will wait until we see the bill and then produce a list of who we wish to provide oral evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 105478,
      "EditedText": "I hope that today we can agree to meet representatives from St Mary's, East Renfrewshire Council, West Lothian Council, the Gaelic education sector and Steiner schools, so that we can give them meeting dates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 105481,
      "EditedText": "I had thought that we were putting off this decision, but I am keen that the Scottish Library Information Council talks to us about its proposal, in conjunction with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, to have a statutory school library service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2144,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2144,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 105485,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2144,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2144,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 105486,
      "EditedText": "It is an important matter but it would be more appropriate for the local authority to deal with it. I am sure that the local authority is dealing with it. I do not have a problem with Mike's suggestion, but I am pretty sure that the issue will have been addressed in the local plan by the range of agencies that Mr Guild refers to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2144,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ID": 2144,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 105489,
      "EditedText": "Brian, are you willing to take the matter up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2144,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2144,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 105490,
      "EditedText": "As one of the members with only one committee, I probably have more time than other members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 2145,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2145,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 105493,
      "EditedText": "The fifth item on the agenda is the statutory instrument. Do members have any comments? Gillian, would you say a few words?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 2145,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2145,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 105494,
      "EditedText": "I want to advise the committee that the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee considered this statutory instrument and had no action to recommend. I am happy to elaborate on the procedures that are set out on the note, if members would find that helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 2145,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2145,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 105498,
      "EditedText": "We approve it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 2145,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2145,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 105502,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 2145,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2145,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 105503,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 105508,
      "EditedText": "Good point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 105509,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point. Shall we continue to ask it questions? I am a bit confused."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 105512,
      "EditedText": "Would any team be mixed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2146,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 105513,
      "EditedText": "I would not mind it being mixed. Rather than jump at this issue, we should think about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105517",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 105517,
      "EditedText": "It is okay, we have our front row. Seriously, I think that there are points that need to be considered further.The second invitation is from the European Forum for Teachers of Religious Education. It follows a letter from Donald Gorrie MSP, who has been contacted and asked whether we would like to be involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 105519,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that suggestion.Before we finish, the committee has also been invited—the invitation was received only yesterday—to an event that is being organised for 19 November by Save the Children. It is to mark the 10th anniversary of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. Save the Children wants to hold a reception at the Parliament. The Executive was originally going to organise it, but unfortunately the ministers are not available. That is why Save the Children has come back to us at this late date. It has invited children from all over Scotland to the Parliament to talk to MSPs.Yesterday, I agreed that I would attend the function, but I am keen to ensure that members of this committee know about it as well. I will circulate the details, if members are happy for me to do that. I know that this is very short notice, but I would be happy if members of the committee could attend. The event is to be on 19 November—a Friday—from 2 to 3.30. I have warned Save the Children that it will be difficult, but if members of the committee can attend, they should let me know. Save the Children is keen to hold a question-and-answer session with MSPs, and it would be useful if we knew which members were likely to be present so that we could supply them with questions beforehand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 105524,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to the consulting of MSPs. As we are not doing anything as a committee, can I urge members to give up a surgery or a good bit of a surgery in November and to publicise the fact that they will be available to listen to the views of children in their constituency? It is important that we say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 105526,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:00."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2140,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2140,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Mary Mulligan): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 105326,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I am impressed by everybody's punctuality—except mine. Well, I was not late; other members were early."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 105327,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is the committee's work programme, which has proved difficult to work on, and on which I have received some comments. Do members who have not commented wish to do so?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 105331,
      "EditedText": "We should also consider the possible establishment of a national theatre company, because we are examining the current theatre companies and there is likely to be a debate about a national company.Given that the Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport will be here next week, I intend to draft a number of questions in advance—if the convener agrees—so that we receive as full answers as possible on the events surrounding Scottish Opera and Hampden park."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 105338,
      "EditedText": "Certainly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 105340,
      "EditedText": "I am aware of that difficulty. We will provide members with the relevant information. That does not preclude them from raising points with the minister next week, as a meeting with her is also on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 105342,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, Fiona. Is what we said on the national companies agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 105343,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we can give Gillian Baxendine information on people to whom we might want to talk. For example, I am sure that Equity will want to be heard on the national theatre, and we must be certain to ask the trade unions to be part of the inquiry. The Broadcasting, Entertainment, Cinematograph and Theatre Union has expressed great concern. There is concern that trade unions and those who work in the cultural industries are often the last to be consulted. I want to hear representatives of a variety of unions, including the Musicians Union, on all those matters"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 105344,
      "EditedText": "That is important. I think that everybody is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 105354,
      "EditedText": "I support Nicola's suggestion. I am thoroughly fed up with seeing on the BBC, or reading in The Scotsman, in The Herald the next day, then in the Sunday Herald or Scotland on Sunday, drip-drip information about what is happening, while the Scottish Executive hides behind commercial confidentially. I am prepared to wait until Rhona Brankin is here next week, but I think that we should at least have the consultants' document, so that we can read through it and give the minister the benefit of sensible questions. We have seen internecine warfare starting in another committee, with allegation and counter-allegation. It has reached the point where the minister involved has said that the questions were not hard enough or accurate enough. We should ask the right questions by ensuring that we have the right information to formulate them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 105358,
      "EditedText": "Some issues are so sensitive that it would not be appropriate to publish information. However, the minister would have to explain that to the satisfaction of the committee. Obviously, that will be her decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 105363,
      "EditedText": "I want to reiterate that I do not think that we should attempt to lever ourselves into the delicate negotiations that might still be going on. Irrespective of what Fiona says about the need for information—I am as pleased as the next person to receive information—I would prefer a resolution of the Hampden situation without further undue controversy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 105365,
      "EditedText": "It is quite clear that it is the job of the Executive to sort out the matter. The committee's task is to ensure that the Executive does the job in the public interest. I think that we can strike a balance between those things; it is to be hoped that that will bring about a resolution of the situation. We will ask the questions and seek to provide the information before next week's meeting.We do not seem to have got very far. There is on-going discussion of our work plan. The intention is to identify one major area for investigation. We have agreed on one short, sharp inquiry, into the national companies, and we are looking for guidance from the committee on a longer inquiry, bearing in mind the role that we will be playing in scrutinising the improvement in Scottish education bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 105366,
      "EditedText": "Before we start deciding our priorities, I want to make the point that earlier, when we were talking about what should be on our agenda, we discussed the Scottish music industry. I do not think that that needs to be a priority for our committee. Pauline McNeill and other members are setting up a cross-party group, which a few members of the committee have said that they are keen to join. While the music industry should not be at the top of our agenda, I would be concerned if it were missing from a list of topics that we might discuss in future, as we need to come back to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 105369,
      "EditedText": "The time scale, which was not very clear, seems to be slipping. Committee members have flagged up special educational needs a number of times as an area of interest. There was nothing specific on it in the draft bill, but the Executive has indicated that it might consider it further. I am not sure whether we should start an inquiry on that issue, or whether we should wait to see what the Executive proposes, following the consultation process, before we decide whether we want to proceed with such an inquiry. I am happy to take members' views on that. We should not duplicate that work, given that we have several other issues to consider, but I feel strongly that we must tackle it. Several members wish to speak; I suggest that everyone be given an opportunity to comment on the revised work programme, following which we will try to order our priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C105376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 105376,
      "EditedText": "I would like to consider the involvement of the wider community in education. We talk about involving parents but we are not sure how to do it. I would like to examine the proposals for school boards in more detail. There is also the issue of children having a say in their own learning and participating in how their schools are run. Active citizenship, the youth parliament and youth forums are also important. We should talk about all those wider issues.However, if we cannot get kids through the door of a school to be educated in the first place, or if kids think that education is nothing to do with them, we are lost before we start. We must consider whether community schools work and how they involve parents, other members of the community and voluntary organisations with an interest in education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 105386,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful if we were to crystallise the discussion. I have jotted down an idea and I wonder whether the committee would like to take a view on it.I think that national companies, school infrastructure and special educational needs are issues that the committee should examine in depth. To try to reflect the balance of the committee, three reporters could produce a report each. For example, one could be on sport in schools, one on Scottish film and one on consulting young people. In view of the range of issues that we have to deal with, it would be useful to deal with things in bite-sized chunks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 105387,
      "EditedText": "I agree that special education and school infrastructure are the two things that people have identified as needing to be investigated. I said at the beginning that I was not sure how to deal with the issue of special education because we do not know what the outcome of the Executive's consultation process will be. However, I take on board the points that have been made about the committee's responsibility to dictate the agenda.I disagree with Ian Welsh about the use of individual reporters to make the reports. We have already taken evidence on consultation with children and Children in Scotland is preparing a report on that—I thought that Fiona McLeod might want to do some work on that, given her interest in the subject. A reporter could start the discussions on rural schools, as Nicola suggested, and if the issue becomes bigger, the committee could return to it later in the year. Jamie, would you like to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 105388,
      "EditedText": "Sure, I guess that Fiona and I would be equally interested in that.I want to emphasise a point that Karen Gillon made. This is the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and part of the solution to the problem of rural school closures would be to push together the different aspects of our committee to create units with many uses in communities. We should remember our wider responsibility. Lots of councils missed the opportunity to work together and pool their budgets. The consultation document is called \"Improving our Schools\", but it deals only with education and ignores the opportunities to link in with other areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 105389,
      "EditedText": "Ian has moved us on substantially, which is valuable.As Nicola Sturgeon pointed out, we need a focus and a timetable. We must leave this meeting with an absolutely clear idea of what we are doing. There is broad agreement that school infrastructure and special educational needs should be investigated first and that we should continue to take evidence on the bill. Jamie should be the reporter on rural schools. The purpose of a rapporteur is not to end the discussion on a subject but to begin it. A rapporteur on Scottish film could identify the issues that needed to be discussed.I mention one final point on the curriculum, because curriculum issues are important. The teaching of Scottish history is an issue that concerns all parties. Reports on the issue have become politicised. It would be interesting to have a report, perhaps from a member who has not shown great enthusiasm for the matter, on whether we should consider the issue. I chaired a book launch for Tom Devine in Edinburgh where the teaching of Scottish history became the main topic of discussion. It was raised by a range of people, some of whom were in favour and some of whom were against. The committee needs a report on whether it is an issue that we should consider and whether there should be a rapporteur. It would not be impossible to have five rapporteurs working during the winter and giving reports successively during the spring."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 105395,
      "EditedText": "A delegation would take up more committee time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 105396,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but it would be an interesting conversation for those who do not know what is taught in history in Scottish schools to have before we took a decision—I speak as a trained history teacher."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 105401,
      "EditedText": "I suggested three issues that rapporteurs could examine: sports in schools, Scottish film and consultation, which you picked up on. I had forgotten that Children in Scotland was coming back to the committee. The bigger issues were special educational needs, national companies and school infrastructure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 105403,
      "EditedText": "We will want to consider all aspects of infrastructure. The aspect that you mention is topical and we will want to pick up on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 105405,
      "EditedText": "That is a bigger topic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 105410,
      "EditedText": "That also works the other way, Kenny. Our consideration of the bill may spin off issues into which we will want to inquire, but that will happen only if we allow flexibility for the process to feed either way. That seems to have been other committees' experience."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 105421,
      "EditedText": "The committee will want to examine new ways of tackling subjects and perhaps we will follow Ian's suggestion in future inquiries. However, I tend to agree with Nicola that we should not duplicate the work that is going on. Perhaps it would be better to wait until we have a report to discuss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2141,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 105422,
      "EditedText": "My point is that there would be no duplication."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 105431,
      "EditedText": "Keenness is what we want. It was suggested that Karen Gillon should report on sport in school.Is there anything else that anyone was desperate to do? I ask you to bear in mind that you will be doing this alongside a large amount of other work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 105436,
      "EditedText": "We could call officials and ministers responsible for spending money on infrastructure to give evidence. The inquiry is about finding out the present state of the infrastructure. It would be appropriate to take evidence on that in rural Scotland and outside Edinburgh. We could have an evidence session in Inverness or Oban."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 105439,
      "EditedText": "So that we do not focus too narrowly on whether there is a hole in the roof—although that is important—we must bear in mind what constitutes an adequate school. That relates to car parking, up-to-date technology resources, libraries and other issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 105444,
      "EditedText": "My second point is that no conclusion has been reached on curriculum issues, although there has been a discussion about Scottish history. It would be useful to have views on that subject. Before members all say, \"Why don't you do it, Mr Monteith?\" I should point out that I have already lodged a motion on the subject and my views are well known. It may be useful to have a reporter who has not yet formed a view on the subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 105448,
      "EditedText": "Several committees are taking evidence on the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill and they are keeping each other informed so that members of all committees can attend. The conveners are also liaising. I propose that you liaise with the convener of the Equal Opportunities Committee on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 105449,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is important. Thank you for that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 2142,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ID": 2142,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 105450,
      "EditedText": "The next item is feedback from the committee's visits to schools. Not everyone has been able to take part in a visit, but dates are being proposed for the final visit. I suggest that we put off any discussion on visits until the final visit has taken place. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 105454,
      "EditedText": "I came in this morning and found all this on my desk at 10 past 9. It would be useful to get summaries as the written evidence comes in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 105457,
      "EditedText": "There are two points for decision on paper ED/99/6/2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 105462,
      "EditedText": "I think that members have received letters from St Mary's."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 105464,
      "EditedText": "I told a couple of members that the committee should invite representatives of St Mary's to attend so that we can discuss the issues with them. Rather than each of us replying and having separate discussions, it would be best to have a discussion together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 105466,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 105470,
      "EditedText": "East Renfrewshire Council and West Lothian Council will have interesting information for us as they are the pilot councils, so we should meet both."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 105472,
      "EditedText": "We could meet representatives of Steiner schools if committee members feel it is important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 105473,
      "EditedText": "At which stage would we do so?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 105474,
      "EditedText": "I am reluctant to produce a long list at this stage, but I am happy to take on board your point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2144,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ID": 2144,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 105484,
      "EditedText": "Mr Guild outlines a serious matter. This sort of situation, where a series of public bodies and others have not co-ordinated their actions, is exactly what the petitioning process was designed to cover. As it is the committee's first petition, we should treat it with the utmost seriousness. Despite the clerk's note, it would be useful if we could have a recommendation with each petition so that we can consider the recommendation. I suggest that we appoint a committee member to meet Mr Guild and report back with a view to the committee assisting him in resolving the matter. We cannot have a hearing yet, as we do not know enough about the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2144,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ID": 2144,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 105491,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful. I accept what Ian said, as the local authority has a lead role to play. However, if there is some way in which we can assist the local authority to take the matter on board, I am happy to take Mike's recommendation. Are we agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2144,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ID": 2144,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 105492,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Brian."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 2145,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ID": 2145,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 105495,
      "EditedText": "Do members want to hear about the procedure or are they happy to continue with the next agenda item?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 105504,
      "EditedText": "The final item on the agenda deals with two invitations that the committee has received. The first is from Friends of Scottish Rugby and the Caledonian Club. Members will see from their papers that the club wishes to become the Scottish Parliament's rugby side. It has been suggested that my friend, Karen Gillon, should be our representative, as she knows so much about rugby."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 105505,
      "EditedText": "There was some confusion—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 105506,
      "EditedText": "She is a formidable front row. I am not unhappy about this invitation, but should a London-based club be the Scottish Parliament's rugby side? Should we not put that out to tender to Scottish-based clubs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 105507,
      "EditedText": "Does the Caledonian Club allow women to join?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 105515,
      "EditedText": "The sad thing is that this is the only matter on which I can see the journalists in the room writing down every detail, although it is the least important item on our agenda. I think that we should seek information on what we should do and leave it at that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 105518,
      "EditedText": "Can we refer this to Reverend Graham Blount, the Scottish Churches parliamentary officer, for his advice? We do not know the body—it may or may not be fine—and we should have some information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 105521,
      "EditedText": "As I said, I did not progress this matter because I thought the event was being organised by the Executive and that we would be given some notice. Unfortunately, because we had a meeting about it only yesterday I have not been able to get details to members before now. I know that many members will not be available and will be unhappy about that. On the positive side, all I can say is that next year we should be able to organise things so that we do not end up in the same situation.Are members happy for me to circulate the details for information?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 105523,
      "EditedText": "Can the clerks send a note as soon as possible to each member of the committee who has taken on an obligation or responsibility, so that we are aware of it? I know that, through no fault of the official report, there will be a delay in the publication of the Official Report of this meeting. I should add that I do not always receive a copy of the Official Report of our meetings. Will the clerks check that every member gets a copy of the Official Report of this meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 2145,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ID": 2145,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 105496,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is much to be said about the statutory instrument. I do not see any grounds for objection."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:59.8365217+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 105368,
      "EditedText": "The paper on the work programme is extremely good. It focuses attention on some areas of priority and gives us a clear idea of the direction in which we are heading. I suggested two additional areas under \"Topics for major inquiries\", which are not in my version of the paper, although I think that Gillian Baxendine included them in a revised version of the paper. For members who have an old version of the paper, those topics were: the role and operation of Her Majesty's inspectorate of schools and an examination of the further protection that can be given to small and rural schools. With those two additions, the paper is on the right lines. I want to make some suggestions about the areas that we should prioritise. It is estimated that we could handle two short inquiries—perhaps three at most. We already agreed the subject of the funding of the national arts companies, but I would suggest another two subjects, which are, in order of priority, a report on special educational needs, which is an extremely important subject, and the response to the Executive's cultural strategy, which is a pressing matter. I have three suggestions for \"Topics for reporters\", although there might be some discussion about how much work is possible. Those suggestions are: consultation with young people, which we have discussed on a number of occasions, the Scottish film industry and rural schools. While I suggested rural schools under \"Topics for major inquiries\", I doubt that we will have time to undertake that as a major inquiry in the forthcoming parliamentary year. It might be appropriate to start that work with an initial examination by a reporter, with a view to having a major inquiry later. Finally, under \"Topics for major inquiries\", I suggest that the most important issue is school infrastructure, given the scale of the problem. I suggest that that should be our first major inquiry, which might involve taking evidence outwith Edinburgh. As part of the overall investigation, I wish to suggest another subject that we should examine—I make this suggestion from an educational point of view, not from a party political point of view. At an appropriate point during that inquiry, we should examine and report on the Glasgow schools private finance initiative and its impact on education. We must decide how we will deal with a couple of other issues, such as the McCrone committee. I note that the paper says that the Scottish Joint Negotiating Committee will come up in the context of the education bill. However, as far as I can gather, that is not certain. Although the minister has said that he intends to make proposals on the abolition of the SJNC, he has yet to say when he will do that. The consultation process on the education bill has now finished and there is a question mark over how SJNC reform is to be factored into that bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 105380,
      "EditedText": "There are all sorts of things that we should do, but we do not have time to do them all. This meeting is about pinning down priorities. The issue of being school focused is important; indeed, the SNP has made that point in relation to the education bill.Performance indicators represent a big part of the bill's proposals, so we have an opportunity to examine that issue. All Karen's points are valid and we would tackle them all if we had all the time in the world, but we do not have that time and I think that we should start to pin down our priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 105416,
      "EditedText": "I disagree with Ian. I was very critical about the establishment of the McCrone committee and still have deep reservations about its chances of success. Ian's suggestion would only duplicate the committee's work and probably would not add much value to the process. It would be far more constructive for the committee to comment on the McCrone report when it is submitted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 105426,
      "EditedText": "Particularly in Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 105432,
      "EditedText": "As part of the investigation into infrastructure, can we ask for permission to go outside Edinburgh to take evidence in different parts of the country?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 3 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2140,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2140,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 105325,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:33"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C105330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 105330,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Mike. It is tempting to address whatever is the issue of the day and become caught up in it. We must examine the national arts companies and related issues in a couple of meetings. We should have a discussion and decide how to move forward, because the issues that arose last week could arise next week with a different company. Rather than examine one company, we should examine them all. We had the opportunity to speak to the Scottish Arts Council, but I would like more information and the opportunity to ask questions, so that we can discuss the issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 105333,
      "EditedText": "We all share those concerns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 105334,
      "EditedText": "I agree with everything that was said. This is a good time to address those matters because a cultural strategy is being formulated, so we can take evidence and form an opinion before other decisions are made and before knock-on effects complicate matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 105335,
      "EditedText": "On the national companies, we are talking about the performing arts. Paying due deference to our work load, I would like us to examine museums and galleries later in the year, because the evidence that was presented to us showed that the funding that they receive is considerably less than similar institutions receive in the rest of the UK. That is an ideal matter for the committee to examine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 105339,
      "EditedText": "It is absolutely right that a briefing by Parliament researchers on the national companies—on the present status, the history, the funding, and the issue of a national theatre—should be circulated to the committee.I notice that the committee is due to meet on 17 November and 23 November. Those two meetings might allow us to take evidence and draw up a report that could be ready for the beginning of December. However, I make a truly personal plea that, as the meeting on 23 November is scheduled to be at the same time as the Parliamentary Bureau meeting, the timing of our meeting be changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 105341,
      "EditedText": "I e-mailed you and Gillian Baxendine about Hampden."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 105345,
      "EditedText": "I hope that deciding to consider the national companies over the next two meetings does not preclude us from examining the situation at Hampden, which I have tried since July to get the committee to consider. That is my proviso for agreeing to the inquiry into the national companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 105348,
      "EditedText": "I disagree—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 105350,
      "EditedText": "I will bring you in shortly, Ian."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 105356,
      "EditedText": "Fiona is right. There is no doubt that the lack of information has been scandalous. Essentially, next week is the last chance for the minister to provide us not only with the information that we need, but with the information that the public need. The creation of a debentures millionaire is the latest thing about which people in Scotland are stunned. There might be a case later on—but I am not making a formal proposal—in the light of the Scotland v England ticket sales fiasco, for us to examine the whole question of the running of Scottish football. I am sure that we would be greatly assisted by Ian Welsh, who is an expert in the matter. There is much public concern about football, and the football authorities seem, as it were, to be kicking themselves in the shins."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 105359,
      "EditedText": "I have a slight difficulty with that. Ultimately, the buck stops with us—we are the law makers in Scotland. For any minister in any department to say to any committee of this Parliament that information cannot be supplied to it is very dangerous. If the matter is sensitive, we should see the information and hear evidence in camera. There is an important principle at stake. I am not as well acquainted as are members across the table with the issue in question—if I see a football, I run—but this is where I pop my head above the parapet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 105360,
      "EditedText": "We wish that the Scotland team would do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 105372,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 105373,
      "EditedText": "I will concentrate on special needs. I am wary of waiting for the Executive to respond on special needs. My experience is that Governments talk up the issue but deliver at a very low level. We cannot yet judge whether this Executive will deliver more than any previous Government.I would be concerned about restricting ourselves to considering the Riddell report, important though it is. There is a broader issue about the integration of children with special educational needs. I am concerned that we do not take a top-down approach. The matter concerns families, school adaptations, auxiliary support, additional teaching support, teacher training, school ethos indicators and a range of other factors. The basic issue, as I have indicated before, concerns human rights. Some of the smaller, curricular issues do not concern me. However, we should treat the strategic issues seriously. For me, they will be an indicator of whether the Scottish Executive is serious about social inclusion. That would be a major inquiry and, if I had to plump for any, that is the one that I would plump for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 105370,
      "EditedText": "On the shorter inquiry, I lend my ample weight to the suggestion that we discuss the Riddell committee report, which I think is especially important—it has not been considered in the public domain as much as it should have been. On the major inquiry, I am concerned that we will take on too much if we try to cover too many of these subjects. We should discuss curriculum issues. This committee could do our country a great service by examining that objectively. Three subjects listed in the suggested work programme—maths, Scottish history and sport—particularly merit discussion. It is rightly pointed out that a report on maths is due in November. Given that there is concern about Scotland's performance internationally in maths, it is important that we examine that matter. There is a growing interest in how Scottish history is taught in Scottish schools. There is also interest in the teaching of sport in terms of health and sporting performance. One issue that is not mentioned in the suggested work programme but that might be worth considering is the teaching of foreign languages in primary schools, which HMI reported on before the establishment of this Parliament. Many teachers felt ill judged by the report—they felt that they had been carrying out HMI's recommendations only to be told that they were teaching wrongly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 105374,
      "EditedText": "We have been meeting since May. We must get to grips with what a committee is for. Why does this committee exist? It exists because it has a number of defined roles within the Parliament. Those roles can be broken down. The first role is legislative. As the improvement in Scottish education bill is scrutinised by this committee, it will need serious attention; we will need to take evidence at the pre-legislative stage. When the bill is introduced, it will be our responsibility to produce a stage 1 report. We must request from the minister his proposed time scale for introducing the bill and we must find the time for our work on it. Let us call that role A.Role B is to instigate legislation. We can produce committee bills. At any time, a proposal for a bill can be referred to us by any member of this committee and we would have to consider it. In those circumstances, we should have a constructive discussion about any legislative change that we think that we could bring about as a committee. To do that, we might have to inquire into certain areas, rather than simply have a seminar on this or a briefing on that. The question is this: what change could we bring about as a committee? If we can focus on that, the topics for inquiry will become self-evident.Role C is to right wrongs—to look into things that are difficult and to discern whether we can help. It is wrong to define our task as this paper does—although I am grateful to have the paper—as some sort of short or medium-term inquiry. That is all about inputs. We should be examining the outputs for which this committee has responsibility.Our main task, between now and next summer, is to scrutinise the bill. We must examine it clause by clause. As some people have said, it may have deficiencies. We might want to pre-empt our work by talking to some of those people about what they think. We are receiving the information. We should consult some of the people who are providing information now, to get ahead of ourselves. That is the first timetabling priority.Our second task is to inform the Executive about priorities, if we think that we can make a difference. The most important issue on the list is school infrastructure. Nobody has really taken on the task of saying to the Executive how it could address that. We could suggest new thinking, new ideas—I hesitate to say it, but modern ideas and a modernisation of the issue—and we could take evidence in a way in which the Government never could. People will talk to us, and we can visit people. That seems to be a way in which this committee could make a difference.No member of this committee has yet produced any legislative ideas. We should ask members whether there is something that we can do. That will entail an inquiry. In terms of shorter inquiries for the righting of wrongs, we have already agreed to hold an inquiry on the national arts companies. That is good. We could also have an inquiry into special needs. That would allow us to make an impact in that area, as we all want to do. A shorter inquiry need not be limited to two or three meetings; it would just not be the main work that we are doing. In the context of the bill, we can consider the Gaelic language. Some organisations might be happy if we were to assist in that matter.There are one or two other areas within our remit. We have a role in monitoring what the Executive is doing. We must examine issues such as the national cultural strategy to determine whether we can jolly the Executive along, make comments or give assistance. If those issues become the subject of legislation, we must get involved in that process. We can also send members away—with a bit of research help—to look into issues that might inform the committee. That is the purpose of a rapporteur: to inform the committee without tying up all its time. There are some items on this list for which that would be helpful.I plead with you, convener, and with the committee, for the clearest and most rigorous timetable for the things that we know that we have to do. If we occasionally interview people whose evidence seems to be of interest at the time, or if we take endless briefings from people who simply want to put their spin on things, we will be wasting our precious time. Rigour must be brought to bear now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 105377,
      "EditedText": "Mike was right to point out that there must be a purpose to any inquiries or evidence sessions. There must be a reason for the committee to conduct such exercises and we must be clear about what we want to achieve. We should bear that in mind when considering how to plan our work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 105379,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Ian Welsh that a major inquiry into special educational needs should be a priority. For too long, that has been a back-burner issue; it has been disregarded and left for somebody else to deal with. If we are not careful, that situation may persist. We should look at all aspects of special educational needs. The bill gives us a starting point but, as Ian said, we must also consider how people with special educational needs can be integrated into schools fully, rather than in an ad hoc, add-on way. The role of rapporteurs is very important. When we were in St Andrews, performance indicators emerged as an important subject. Perhaps a member of the committee can report on whether performance indicators should be qualitative or quantitative. We need to consider how we rate schools, how we rank schools, whether the indicators that we are using are the most appropriate ones and whether they take into account all the factors. Young people are very important and it is important that we consult them. In the past, consultation has not been carried out as it should have been. We should, perhaps, get some information on that and develop ideas on how we take it forward. It would not do any good for us to say that we want to consult young people if we have not done the groundwork and examined how that should be done.We must examine rural schools. Too often, they are easy targets when budgets are under threat.I agree with Cathy Peattie's comment that we have become very school focused in our outlook on education. We must look at education in a wider context. If we fail to engage with education in the wider community, all education will be done in schools. Kids who do not go to school will not be educated properly. Their parents will not be able to engage in their education because they do not have the basic skills that would help them. We need to launch an inquiry into education outwith schools, and into how people learn in that context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C105381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 105381,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for being late.Karen made a point about special educational needs. How will the Riddell committee report fit into the process of examining the bill on improving schools? What relationship will we have with other committees on this issue? I am aware that the Equal Opportunities Committee has been examining what the report says about the length of school days and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 105382,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Sylvia, but she raises an issue relating to standing orders. Any member is entitled to attend this committee—Sylvia is very welcome to attend on each occasion that this committee meets. There is, however, meant to be a political balance on the committees—that has been agreed by the bureau. There is now regularly an additional member at meetings who has—properly—speaking rights. That diminishes the time available for other members of the committee.I respect Sylvia's interest in this and I think that she would be a valuable member of the committee, but if the Labour party wants her to be a member, the quid pro quo is that someone else from another party should also be a member. That would leave those charged with membership of the committee with a reduced role.I say that for the record so that the parties will consider it, and not to Sylvia personally, for whom I have great respect and whose contribution I am glad to hear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 105383,
      "EditedText": "My understanding of the standing orders is that they say that members can indicate whether they wish to attend committees of which they are not members. If that is the case, the member is entitled to take part in the discussions. It is not necessarily for us to decide on how that is operated. Your point has been recorded, Mike, and the appropriate place in which to take it up is the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 105385,
      "EditedText": "The interpretation of the rule has to be discussed by the bureau and some guidance has to be given to the committees."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 105390,
      "EditedText": "People laughed when I said that I would trust Mike Russell to tell us about Scottish film. May I suggest that he be the rapporteur for precisely that? We must get culture and media into our programme and that would be a good way of doing it. There are issues about Scottish film that need to be discussed. It would be useful for us to consider them. The matter involves specialist knowledge, which Mike is in a good position to provide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 105391,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that Mike can do us a film for free?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 105392,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 105397,
      "EditedText": "The rapporteur on Scottish history would do that job for the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 105404,
      "EditedText": "I want to echo some of the points that have been made. Sports in schools is an emerging topic. I recommend Karen Gillon as the rapporteur on that, as she has great sporting prowess. Jamie Stone, Cathy Peattie, Karen Gillon and Nicola Sturgeon have all mentioned education outside school. Where are we on that? Is it a matter for a reporter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C105407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 105407,
      "EditedText": "Nicola is right. We will be able to pick up on some of the issues during our examination of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 105408,
      "EditedText": "It is an issue that needs to be given a bit more time. We may want to consider it once we have examined special educational needs and infrastructure. I am trying to restrict our programme of work so that we can focus on what we are doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 105409,
      "EditedText": "I want to consider, in the context of the bill, issues such as education outside schools, performance indicators and the wider role of education. I do not want to lose focus on those issues in some general conversation about the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 105418,
      "EditedText": "There is a standing orders difficulty with meeting on a Saturday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 105420,
      "EditedText": "The session could take place on any day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 105425,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we need to make a decision on that just yet. We can ask exactly what the process will be and, if there are two stages, we might get involved after the first one. Do we agree that the two items on which we wish to proceed are special education and infrastructure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1837,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 105429,
      "EditedText": "Good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 105430,
      "EditedText": "I am reluctant, but yes, okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 105434,
      "EditedText": "I know that there is going to be an increasing demand on resources for committee travel. There are resources this year. We will need to make an early decision about the programme of the infrastructure inquiry and a series of visits for the inquiry on special educational needs. It is very important that we have the chance to consider rural Scotland as well as the central belt when we investigate infrastructure.Rapporteurs also have the opportunity to apply for committee travel money—I know that Jamie will want to do so. Money is also available for advisers to the committee on key issues. We can put a convincing case for an adviser on either special educational needs or infrastructure—not for both. There is a lot of interest in special educational needs and a special adviser to the committee could undertake a survey of provision and give the committee specialist advice. I am happy to work with Mary and Gillian to organise that, because I have had some experience of that process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 105438,
      "EditedText": "Thurso might be going a little too far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 105440,
      "EditedText": "We can take evidence from people who have designed award-winning schools. Schools that are well designed and meet pupils' needs can give us a template on which to measure provision elsewhere. Lionacleit school in Benbecula is, by all accounts, one of the finest schools in Scotland in terms of facilities. Why does that school work and other schools do not? That relates to Cathy Peattie's point about community schools. What makes a good school?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 105442,
      "EditedText": "I have two points. My first is about school infrastructure. I remind the committee that there is a private finance initiative project going on in Edinburgh that might be worth examining. If we examine the issue of capital budgets, we must not fail to ask why some organisations that have money left in their budgets rush to spend it before the end of the financial year while other organisations, such as schools, could benefit from a transfer of funds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2141,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 105446,
      "EditedText": "I have a final question before we round off this part of the meeting. Sylvia Jackson said that the Equal Opportunities Committee is also looking into special educational needs. Gillian, could we obtain the information that it has, rather than duplicate the effort? How could we ask that committee for it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 105447,
      "EditedText": "I imagine that any evidence that the Equal Opportunities Committee takes will be public evidence, so we need only ask to be apprised of that. Members of this committee could also attend meetings of that committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2143,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 105452,
      "EditedText": "Could an updated summary be provided each time new reports come out? They are beginning to pile up and we need a list of all of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 105458,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, Mike. Thank you for pointing that out. Do we agree to take oral evidence on the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 105459,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 105461,
      "EditedText": "I thought that St Mary's Episcopal Primary School, Dunblane was already pencilled in, as it is in my diary, although it is not at the top of my priority list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2143,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 105463,
      "EditedText": "From all of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2143,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 105469,
      "EditedText": "East Renfrewshire Council has already been inspected and would be happy to give evidence. It has learned some interesting lessons and introduced a refined way of using the statistics that are thrown up by performance indicators and inspections. It would be useful for the committee to hear about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2143,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 105475,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Ian. We are trying to address the deficiencies of the bill. Steiner schools are not covered, and as they have cross-party support, the committee may be able to play a useful role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2143,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 105479,
      "EditedText": "May I throw in one other organisation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2143,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 105480,
      "EditedText": "If you must."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2143,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2143,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 105482,
      "EditedText": "The committee would be happy with that. We will leave that discussion for now, but we are not ruling out anyone at this stage. Once we have the next draft of the bill we will reconsider our position. The decision that we have reached so far on the organisations that we will talk to allows appointments to be made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2144,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2144,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 105483,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any comments to make about the petition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2144,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ID": 2144,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 105487,
      "EditedText": "I tend to agree with Ian. It is obviously an important issue that matters very much to Mr Guild, but there are many ways in which we can refer the matter to the local authority. Rather than tying up a committee member's time, we could write to ask for the local authority's view and how it is dealing with the situation. If necessary, we could also write to Historic Scotland, which might also have a view. It is a question of prioritising. We are having a nightmare this morning as it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 2144,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ID": 2144,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 105488,
      "EditedText": "Brian Monteith has an interest in the area and in the subject—he could meet Mr Guild. Mr Guild is a Liberal Democrat, while Brian is a Tory, so they are not likely to find that much in common. Perhaps they could talk history in a constructive way. Brian could come back and tell us what is happening. It is fine if the appropriate action is to write to the local authority, but the press cuttings that Mr Guild has enclosed date back a long time. One can see how long he has been pursuing this matter and how old the cuttings are because they refer to Willie Ross as the Secretary of State for Scotland—those were grand days indeed for Ayrshire. It is time that something was done and we should treat the matter seriously. This is our first petition and we should show that the process works. I suggest that Brian should meet him and report back to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 2145,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2145,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 105497,
      "EditedText": "Neither do I. So, do we just note it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 2145,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2145,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 105499,
      "EditedText": "We approve it, do we?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 2145,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2145,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 105500,
      "EditedText": "Do we not make a recommendation to the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 2145,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2145,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 105501,
      "EditedText": "The committee recommends that no action is taken on the statutory instrument, which then passes into law."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 105510,
      "EditedText": "Can we consult a rugby expert, to get some advice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 105511,
      "EditedText": "Surely, given all the people that we employ—perhaps not the MSPs, apart from Mike—we could put out our own rugby team. I am quite serious. The House of Commons and the House of Lords do that, and I bet that the National Assembly for Wales has a rugby team."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 105514,
      "EditedText": "Frankly, I do not think that this is appropriate for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 105516,
      "EditedText": "If we are going to do things, we should try to do them by our own hand. I make that plea, be for it football, rugby, darts or beer drinking. I am not volunteering to be a forward, by the way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 105520,
      "EditedText": "This is the first I have heard about this event and my diary indicates that I will not be able to come. At a recent meeting, I suggested that we should take steps to inform MSPs. That would have meant our being in control of the date—being pro-active and saying to young people in Scotland, \"Your children's committee wants you to come and we want to listen to you.\" We now have to respond to someone else's invitation, and some of us will be unable to attend. I am upset about that, because this is a very important issue. Two or three meetings ago, we could have taken a lead on it and publicised it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2146,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 105522,
      "EditedText": "Alistair Fleming has copies of the information here. At the end of the meeting he will give them to any member who wants them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 2146,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ID": 2146,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 105525,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to do that. Thank you for your time this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3558658+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 105361,
      "EditedText": "Fiona has made the case well, and she is absolutely right. At this meeting, the committee should make it clear to Rhona Brankin what information we expect to be provided with. If the minister does not supply us with that information, we as a committee will have to make our views known. We cannot get any further by discussing the issue today, but we must make it clear that we expect the information to be provided in advance of her appearance next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 105378,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that the discussion is beginning to become rather wide-ranging again. I reiterate Mike Russell's point. We need to focus on the issues outlined in the paper. We have had umpteen stabs at it and we have all had our say, but we are not here to decide what we find interesting as individuals. If we want to do that, perhaps we should go away and do a PhD on some of the subjects that have been mentioned. Mike was right to outline our roles and we must focus on our priorities. If we were to set our priorities outwith the confines of the paper, I would be worried."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 105406,
      "EditedText": "We will get a stab at some of the issues when we consider the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 105412,
      "EditedText": "We have a straight choice regarding the McCrone committee. Either we make a submission to it—although the chances of the two committees agreeing are probably quite slim—or we ask the minister to ensure that a copy of the McCrone report comes to this committee at the same time as he and the other parties involved receive the document, so that we can examine it properly. That is probably the appropriate way to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 03 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 528
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-03T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2141,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2141,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 105423,
      "EditedText": "If I can be helpful for the umpteenth time today, might I suggest a compromise? If the McCrone committee follows the same pattern as the Cubie committee—we do not know if it will—and has two stages in its consultation process, we could reconsider the matter at the end of the first stage and decide whether we want to have an input at that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19323,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 638504,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. The first item on the agenda is Executive responses. Do members have any points that they wish to raise with regard to the order?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19323,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638506,
      "EditedText": "Bristow, do you have a different view on that matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 19325,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ID": 19325,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 638514,
      "EditedText": "Grand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19326,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19326,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 638520,
      "EditedText": "It was suggested that the provision of maps might delay an order that is concerned with public health. That would be a bad thing. Nevertheless, by the time the matter gets to the lead committee, that committee should have access to a map even if we do not need one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19327,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ID": 19327,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 638528,
      "EditedText": "Is the order going forward to the Transport and the Environment Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19327,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ID": 19327,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 638529,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education (Student Loans) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/124)",
      "HeadingID": 19328,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ID": 19328,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 638530,
      "EditedText": "We seem to have received a full explanation of this order from the Executive. Are we satisfied with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Appropriations) Amendment Order 1999 (1999/draft)",
      "HeadingID": 19329,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 19329,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 638531,
      "EditedText": "We now come to the affirmative instruments. This is a draft order and we have been advised that it is a larger document than we would usually be asked to deal with. Are we satisfied with this provision?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (North Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/125)",
      "HeadingID": 19331,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 19331,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 638535,
      "EditedText": "This order raises the question of maps, which we covered earlier. Do we agree to leave that as part of the general notation that will be drawn to the attention of others?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999 (SSI 1999/130)",
      "HeadingID": 19334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 19334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 638543,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:31."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19322,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19322,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638503,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:17"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19323,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638507,
      "EditedText": "Personally, I think that the likelihood of prosecutions is probably extremely slim and that fishermen who return fish that had been caught accidentally would not be prosecuted. However, I accept that the point made by Fergus is accurate, as a strictly technical interpretation. There is something not very comfortable about bringing again to the attention of the Executive that this particular part of the order is unnecessary and that it would probably be better if it were deleted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19323,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 638511,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we can leave that to the clerks and couch the letter in terms of our thoughts that article 3 is superfluous, although we appreciate the difficulties where there is a general intention to try to prevent certain circumstances arising. Interruption. It has been pointed out to me that we do not have time to go back to the Executive. We will have to put our comments in our report, which might flag up the issue to the Executive. We can draw to the attention of the Rural Affairs Committee the question of how it may wish to deal with such matters, should there be time available on its agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 19325,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ID": 19325,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 638513,
      "EditedText": "We have received confirmation that the absence of a covering letter to the Presiding Officer was an administrative oversight. Are members happy with that explanation and with the humility shown by the Executive legal officers?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19326,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19326,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 638515,
      "EditedText": "A couple of matters were flagged up about this order—in particular, on the question of maps. Fergus, do you wish to raise any points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19326,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19326,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 638517,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other views on maps?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19326,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19326,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 638518,
      "EditedText": "The maps are being provided to the fishing industry in any case. I do not think that the maps would add much to our understanding of the orders, so they would be superfluous if we were to ask for them. The cost of a few more photocopies is probably fairly low but, if it adds nothing to the process, I do not see why we need them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19326,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19326,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 638523,
      "EditedText": "If that is agreed, I shall move on speedily."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19327,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ID": 19327,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 638524,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether we accept the spirit of this response. Does anyone have any views? I know that we have taken the Executive to task before, but we do not want to be too officious or obtuse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19327,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ID": 19327,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 638526,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Maximum Number of Judges<br />(Scotland) Order 1999 (1999/draft)",
      "HeadingID": 19330,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 19330,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 638533,
      "EditedText": "We all recognise the extreme importance of the measure, given the number of Scottish judges who will be otherwise committed for a considerable time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 19333,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ID": 19333,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 638538,
      "EditedText": "We should. Also, would it be worth while to ask the Executive if it has a timetable or if it plans to revise the principal order, which, according to paragraph 14 of the legal adviser's notes, is pretty messy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999 (SSI 1999/130)",
      "HeadingID": 19334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 19334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 638541,
      "EditedText": "The legal adviser has noted that there is some superfluity in this order. Will we draw the Executive's attention to the fact that parts of this order might be unnecessary, given that primary legislation already deals with the same matters?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wafer Scottish Seal Directions 1999 (SSI 1999/130)",
      "HeadingID": 19334,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 19334,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 638542,
      "EditedText": "That brings the meeting to a conclusion. Thank you for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19326,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19326,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 638516,
      "EditedText": "I recollect that it was initially pointed out by way of advice to the committee that, formerly, maps had been provided in statutory instruments of this kind and that the recent flurry of instruments departed from that practice. The Executive's response is that the maps that would be annexed to the statutory instruments might not be sufficient to define the areas and that maps are supplied to fishermen. The Rural Affairs Committee may want to consult with representatives of fishing organisations on that point.However, it might be helpful for maps to be provided, particularly for those non-specialists who are interested in these regulations. That does not seem to amount to a huge, additional expense. It is not as if we are suggesting that we follow the House of Commons practice of printing maps on vellum, which, I understand, is required of House of Commons legislation at a cost of some £30,000 extra per year. The House of Commons has voted to perpetuate that as a desirable practice, while the SNP advocates the production of paper rather than vellum maps."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19323,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 638508,
      "EditedText": "Should we draw to the Executive's attention that we think that that part is superfluous? I do not think that the lead committee will go to the wall over this issue, but that is a matter for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19323,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 638509,
      "EditedText": "It has just occurred to me that, presumably, if one were fishing for salmon, the act of fishing would be illegal, whether or not one threw the fish back. The intention is to discourage people from going out to look for these fish. There is a point at which the act of fishing for prohibited species is an offence, as it should be. I think that our position is probably all right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19323,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 638510,
      "EditedText": "In this case, the act of fishing for lobsters is not an offence, as the species is not prohibited. Indeed, the order says that the fishing industry supports these particular regulations. It would be perfectly appropriate to follow the line that Fergus suggested.My only other comment is that I noticed that the regulation only applies to Scottish or British fishermen and not to fishermen from other parts of the European Union. I do not know what the fishing industry thinks of that, but that is something for the lead committee rather than for this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 19324,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ID": 19324,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 638512,
      "EditedText": "We have received a response and we have received a copy of the decision that was not attached before. Is that satisfactory?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19326,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19326,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 638519,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other views before we decide what we shall ask the Executive to do?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19326,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19326,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 638521,
      "EditedText": "If that is the case, it would be best to ask for maps at the outset. I do not know whether there would be consensus on leaving the matter to the judgment and discretion of the Executive, but I think that, in principle, we would like a map to be provided where possible, bearing in mind urgency and cost. Would that satisfy you, Fergus, or would you prefer to make the provision of maps mandatory?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19327,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ID": 19327,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 638525,
      "EditedText": "It is a satisfactory response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Maximum Number of Judges<br />(Scotland) Order 1999 (1999/draft)",
      "HeadingID": 19330,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 19330,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 638532,
      "EditedText": "This is also a draft order. Again, we have been advised that amendments have been made and matters rectified. Because of the urgency of the situation, the matter is on the agenda for business in Parliament on Thursday 11 November. We are therefore dealing with it speedily. Is it agreed that the order contains nothing that we need to draw to the attention of Parliament, as it will be going directly there rather than to a committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Maximum Number of Judges<br />(Scotland) Order 1999 (1999/draft)",
      "HeadingID": 19330,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 19330,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 638534,
      "EditedText": "As a personal friend of the agent for the alleged Lockerbie bombers, I ought to declare an interest. I do so now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Thurso College (Change of Name) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/126)",
      "HeadingID": 19332,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ID": 19332,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 638536,
      "EditedText": "We will now deal with the negative instruments. I do not think that any points arise from this order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 19333,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ID": 19333,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 638537,
      "EditedText": "I understand that our legal advisers have had previous experience of this order. We have raised the question of consolidation in amendments before. Do we want to inquire whether consolidation is to be considered?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 19333,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ID": 19333,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 638540,
      "EditedText": "We will follow the recommendation of Fergus and Trish and draw that to the attention of the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5780938+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19323,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638505,
      "EditedText": "Article 3 of the order prohibits\"fishing for(a) a mutilated lobster(b) a mutilated crawfish, or(c) any lobster or crawfish bearing a V notch.\"We asked the Executive to explain how an offence is committed under this provision, because there is a separate provision that makes it a criminal offence to land fish that fall into those categories. In its response, the Executive argued that fishermen who find that they have those types of fish in their catch can throw them back, and thereby avoid prosecution. The provision is redundant and, as it creates a criminal offence, it should not be present in any statutory instrument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19326,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19326,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 638522,
      "EditedText": "As a man who is well known for seeking compromise wherever it can be found, I am quite happy to agree to the compromise that you have proposed, convener. It sounds reasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19327,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ID": 19327,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 638527,
      "EditedText": "We are looking forward to the Skye bridge (suspension of tolls) order, but perhaps we will have to wait a little longer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3617
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/129)",
      "HeadingID": 19333,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ID": 19333,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 638539,
      "EditedText": "It seems that the principal order, the Plant Health (Great Britain) Order 1993, is described in the notes as\"one of the worst pieces of legislation on the statute book . . . badly drafted, opaque, riddled with inconsistencies\"and notes that it is often impossible to operate the order sensibly. That is not a vote of confidence and the Executive should take the advice of the legal adviser seriously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 579436,
      "EditedText": "Regardless of what sector of the industry you speak to, two issues often come up. One is the need for a level playing field, which is a point that comes up again and again. We need to discuss whether there is substance to that point, and what we can do about it. The other is labelling.I understand that the Minister for Rural Affairs is appointing someone to look at the industry. I do not think that there is much point in our duplicating what is happening in the rural affairs department if it is doing a study of the future of the industry. We can surely tap into its work and get a report. However, the two issues that I mentioned might be a good starting point for our investigation. We could make a difference by looking into them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1658261+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 579357,
      "EditedText": "Is it not the case that the ministers who drew up the boundary used international conventions? They chose to do so, and that choice has been deemed to be flawed by independent legal experts. I am not saying that it is an international boundary, but ministers used that basis for drawing it up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:31.1413113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 579359,
      "EditedText": "As the minister is expressing a view on the issue, is he satisfied that it was correct to adhere to international conventions, bearing in mind the independent opinions that are being expressed by legal experts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:31.1413113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 574.0,
      "ContributionID": 579505,
      "EditedText": "Considerable evidence has been given today. We must do that justice by considering various recommendations. I am not suggesting that we produce a 100-page report, but we should make some recommendations. Various members have suggested different ways forward. We should consider them at the end of today's meeting and not take a snap decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:31.1413113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17634,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 17634,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 579228,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:00"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 579232,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Mr Morrison. I propose to go straight on to the presentation by John Home Robertson, the fisheries minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 579237,
      "EditedText": "You do not feel that it should be changed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 579238,
      "EditedText": "I see no reason to change it, for the reasons I have given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 579239,
      "EditedText": "Many local MPs want to change it. Archy Kirkwood, the MP for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, is about to lodge a bill on it. Do you not think it would be appropriate for the Executive to back away and allow Westminster to sort it out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 579234,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister. There will now be an opportunity for members to question the minister. We must be careful about how we conduct our questioning. Comments should be addressed through the convener and there should be no direct argument between witnesses. With that in mind, I shall allow members to pursue their lines of questioning. Mike Rumbles would like to begin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 579236,
      "EditedText": "Mr Rumbles is quite right. The establishment of the boundary line is entirely the responsibility of the Westminster Parliament. Notwithstanding that, if I felt that Scotland was being done down, I would not hesitate in going to the barricades to defend Scottish interests. Since I am satisfied that the line is appropriate, I am content to stick to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Morrison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 579242,
      "EditedText": "The day after the matter was discussed in the Scottish Parliament, we had a meeting with Mr Finnie, the Minister for Rural Affairs, at which Mr Home Robertson was also present. It was decided that Mr Finnie would get in touch with Dr Reid, the Secretary of State for Scotland, to facilitate a meeting between him and the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. That meeting took place, but it did not make as much progress as I would have liked. It was followed by a rather disjointed correspondence that concluded on 15 September, I think, when Dr Reid decided against revisiting the matter at Westminster. After that, I wrote to Mr Finnie to report the outcome of the exchange and that is where the matter was left, until today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Morrison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 579244,
      "EditedText": "I made two main points. Mistakenly on my part perhaps, I thought that when a democratic Government made an innovation it had a responsibility to explain what it had in mind and why it was a good idea. That did not happen in this case. There are real difficulties created for the fishing industry. If a fisherman is accused of an offence in the disputed zone, the summons will have to be answered in England. That is not a nationalistic point, but a very practical one as Scottish lawyers and solicitors do not have the right of appearance in English courts. As a result, fishermen have to go to a degree of time, trouble and effort to defend themselves whereas, before, such prosecutions would have happened within Scottish jurisdiction.Secondly, perhaps in the very near future, different fishing codes might arise either side of the new boundary, because why else would we have such a division? A different code might include aspects such as conservation measures, net sizes, and gears. The problem with this line—\"elegant geometry\" though it may be, as Mr Home Robertson says—is that it intersects the Berwick bank, which means that someone might be obliged to change gear halfway through a tow. I am sure that even non-fishermen will understand the impracticality of that.Furthermore, there is the whole question of who will be consulted or compensated, if that is what it comes to, when oil and gas structures in that zone are decommissioned. In the longer term, Scotland's present constitutional state might develop to the point where we have an independent Scotland. The federation has no view on whether that would be likely or desirable, but it has to take into account the fact that, if such a situation arose, fishing rights would indeed be reassigned. The boundary line would then become an influential component in such a decision.Those are the short-term, middle-term and long-term risks to which Scottish fishermen are exposed by this measure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 579245,
      "EditedText": "That is helpful. I want to take up two points with the minister. The first concerns the rights of appearance in English courts of Scottish lawyers. What is the current practice for offences committed by Scottish fishermen in the English zone and vice versa? Secondly, on the different fishing codes, what is the difference between Scottish and English legislation on mesh sizes and so on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 579251,
      "EditedText": "We are being told that both boundaries are hypothetical. The fisheries boundary is hypothetical, because nobody gets arrested offshore, and the Civil Jurisdiction (Offshore Activities) Order 1987 is hypothetical, because everything has been dealt with. However, the fact is that there are two jurisdictions. Both exist because on one side of a line Scots law or regulations that are made by the Scottish Parliament apply—in that sense, they are analogous. Why on earth do we not have the same boundary for both?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 579254,
      "EditedText": "I am suggesting nothing at all. I am just saying that there is a civil jurisdiction boundary that places territory that is closer to England than it is to Scotland under Scottish jurisdiction. That is not a big deal, because it does not affect anyone significantly, but if someone wanted to do some tidying up, they might reach different conclusions. I do not know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 579255,
      "EditedText": "There are various principles that can be applied in drawing up boundaries. Do you agree that the fact that the water is closer to one piece of territory than to another is not the only determining factor?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 579257,
      "EditedText": "Is the median line the most common way of fixing boundaries between adjacent states rather than opposite states?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 579259,
      "EditedText": "In pursuit of that point I would like to bring up something that Henry McLeish said, when he was UK minister, in a committee debate on the order in question. He said:\"Certain devolved functions may be exercisable within the territorial sea, such as the enforcement of criminal law\".He also said:\"The boundary that is specified in this draft order does not automatically apply to such functions, but it provides an obvious line of demarcation for the exercise of appropriate functions by Scottish Ministers or public authorities in future.\"—Official Report, House of Commons, Third Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, 23 March 1999; c 5. He was clearly indicating that, although the boundary was only intended to apply to fisheries orders, it might establish a precedent for boundaries in other areas. Is it the Executive's view that that should be the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 579268,
      "EditedText": "This committee will reach its own conclusions on the matter. As I think I said earlier, if I felt that this arrangement gave rise to any difficulties of any kind, I might well seek to return to it, but I do not feel that. The preface to your question was right—where the boundary lies is a matter for the Westminster Parliament. It set it; it could change it. I can see no useful purpose in doing so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 579269,
      "EditedText": "If there was not a boundary before, how is it that drift net salmon fishing was banned in Scottish waters but not in English waters? What was the difference between Scottish waters and English waters?The fishing industry is about 15 times more important to the Scottish economy than it is to the English economy. Is it not extraordinary that Scottish fishermen were not consulted? The boundary was set just before the Scottish Parliament came into being. Why was it rushed through Westminster two months beforehand? Fishermen would obviously have been consulted if the Scottish Parliament had debated it. What happens if the policies of the Scottish and Westminster Parliaments differ on the fishing laws and directives from Europe—about mesh sizes, for example—which change all the time? Would fishermen have to change their gear if they went from one sector into another?What will happen to fishermen who have had lucrative sub-contracting work with the oil and gas industry? The industry has a non-poaching agreement between England and Scotland, which it may lose. There are practical issues to consider. I am, however, very glad to hear you say that anything can be changed. That is a start. I hope that we can go back to Westminster and sort out what appears to have been a bad mistake."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 579272,
      "EditedText": "Your final point was about taking the matter back to Westminster. Reading the Hansard report of the committee that deliberated on this, I notice that a number of your party colleagues suggested that the line had been set too far south and ought to go further north, so please be careful on that one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 579277,
      "EditedText": "Surely it must have been known that this was going to cause a riot and a rumpus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 579278,
      "EditedText": "It did not cause a riot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 579281,
      "EditedText": "But it was during the election campaign, at which time people tend to be busy, as Lord Sewel was."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 579285,
      "EditedText": "I want open consultation on this. It was in the public domain. It went through a committee of Parliament and was not done in secret. A lot of people did not notice it and if anything like this were to happen in future I would have a face-to-face meeting with the Scottish Fishermen's Federation and other people about it.I reject the suggestion that it was sneaked through in secret—it was not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 579287,
      "EditedText": "Read the whole story. I would always advise Mr Lochhead to do that to get issues clarified. Certainly the statutory instrument included a list of map references which, considered by themselves, would have been virtually incomprehensible, but a map that showed the line was available with it. Reading the text of the statutory instrument would be entirely baffling. In the presence of Mr Lochhead, I will refrain from using the term boring as he might put words into my mouth again. The text of the statutory instrument would be difficult to follow, but the map with it was clear and showed where the line is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 579292,
      "EditedText": "I am anxious to understand in more detail the exact concerns of the fishing industry. Mr Morrison, I would like to address some of the points that you raised. I will paraphrase the answers the minister gave in a letter to the convener to find out how you feel about those issues and what your views are on the minister's responses.You mentioned the risk of being prosecuted in England. The response that we have had is that offences would be detected at the point of landing, rather than at sea, and that offenders would be tried at the point of landing rather than where the offence took place. The second point is in respect of collisions. We are told that the location of the collision is not the only—or even the most important—consideration, but that the home or business addresses of the parties might be the overriding concern. Does that reassure you? There was a bit of confusion as to how many former oil and gas installations are in the area. The minister advises us that there are three decommissioned installations and two that are still in use which will be decommissioned at some other time. We had advice that general compensation for loss of access was unlikely because there was not likely to be a loss of access. Rather, legislation would centre on damage. What are the industry's anxieties on that issue?Finally, my understanding of the definition of the limits is that it refers to the purposes of the Scotland Act 1998, which brought this devolved Parliament into being. Presumably everything would be up for renegotiation in the event of a change in constitutional arrangements for Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579293",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
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      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Morrison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 579293,
      "EditedText": "That is quite a range of subjects. First, I will deal with the specific examples that I gave of situations that concern us. The minister said that those were hypothetical. He is quite right: all risks are hypothetical. That does not meant that you do not take out insurance against them. We would be doing less than our job if we did not try to ensure that risks facing fishermen are headed off as far as possible. That covers oil debris, changed fishing codes and the issues that Dr Murray raised. I agree that the risks are hypothetical, but I repeat that all risks are hypothetical. We should look to their consequences and cover ourselves against them. That is all that we are trying to do.Some of the other points that were raised are not terribly relevant—for example patrolling. The minister talked about aviation patrols. The Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency publishes the surface lines to which it works in its annual report. I know that it works to those lines; it always has and it still does. The idea that the agency never went further south than Campbeltown would be a great relief to some of my friends—if only that were true. Laughter. But come on, we are trying to be realistic here. I return to what I said earlier. A ridiculous situation has arisen. There are two boundary lines between England and Scotland that are 60 miles apart and are separate and distinct. Where is the logic in that? In order to clear this up, the fishermen are perfectly willing to accept not the old fishing line, but the civil jurisdiction line.We are quite happy to live with the line that is enshrined in statutory instrument 2197, the Civil Jurisdiction (Offshore Activities) Order 1987. That suits everybody's purposes perfectly well and would allow us to clear the matter up so that we can move on. The minister insists that the median line is the fair way of drawing the boundary. Of course it is where there are opposing landmasses, but the situation is certainly not as clear and straightforward as that in cases of what is known as lateral adjacency. Everyone must first agree on the basing points from which the median line is to be measured. One need only look at the coastline of England and Scotland to realise that there is endless scope for disputing what would be a sensible base point to use in drawing the line."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 579300,
      "EditedText": "It gives neither advantages nor disadvantages."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 579303,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Fishermen's Federation and other bodies representing fishing interests are registering protests, are they not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 579304,
      "EditedText": "I refer back to my constituency experiences and, going a little further afield, to my contact with people in Eyemouth. I apologise to Mr Robson for referring to that, but there are certainly issues that are of concern to fishermen. Nobody from my constituency has expressed—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 579306,
      "EditedText": "With respect, that has not been my experience. I know that there is a political agenda and I make no complaint about that. Opposition parties and individual members are quite entitled to express opinions and I know that some sectors of the press have been making much of it. However, individual fishermen have not complained to me or, as far as I am aware, to my department. I recognise that there are pressures within the Scottish Fishermen's Federation and that Hamish Morrison is quite rightly expressing that fact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579309",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 579309,
      "EditedText": "Forgive me, minister, but that does not answer my question. I asked about the line, not the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 579316,
      "EditedText": "If the line is not placed on a median line, where should it be placed, Mr Rumbles?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579320",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 579320,
      "EditedText": "There are neither advantages nor disadvantages. There has to be a line and the median line is a fair line to choose. It would be a grand affair if we could shift the line down to Newcastle but I suspect that our colleagues in England would be unhappy about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579323",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 579323,
      "EditedText": "I have no doubt that many in the industry would love to shift the boundary further south. They are entitled to suggest that, but I have not yet heard a cogent case for shifting the boundary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579330",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 579330,
      "EditedText": "Not even from the Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency, which patrolled that area?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579331",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 579331,
      "EditedText": "That is what I was referring to. Would it be in order for Mr Feeley to comment on that?"
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Derek Feeley (Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 579333,
      "EditedText": "If the question is whether we know whether Scottish or English vessels have fished in that area, the answer is that that information could be established by examining prior records of catch statistics. That information could be made available, although such things are always dependent on the accuracy of the record that is provided by the fishermen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 579335,
      "EditedText": "The decision predates my involvement, so I am unable to say whether such considerations were taken into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 579337,
      "EditedText": "Does Mr Morrison have a view on whether fishing interest in the disputed areas was primarily Scottish?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Morrison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 579338,
      "EditedText": "I am busy hunting in my notes, as I received correspondence from the Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency on the subject. However, I do not appear to have brought that correspondence with me today. As you can imagine, the issue has generated a mountain of paper.  I will send those notes to you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Morrison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 579340,
      "EditedText": "The figure that I gave was 90 per cent of catching capacity. Members must bear it in mind that many Scottish fishing vessels are less than 10 m in length, and are not typically registered with the Scottish Fishermen's Federation; they tend to be creel men and day-boats. We could, with reasonable confidence, say that, of the 7,800 fishermen in Scotland, around 4,500 use vessels that are affiliated to the federation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 579343,
      "EditedText": "I return to the four hypothetical risks that you identified, relating to appearances in court, different fisheries' codes, oil and gas decommissioning, and independence. Do you agree that the other three would become more significant if the risk of independence were that which we had to confront? Irene McGugan asked whether the number of boats from Scotland and England were taken into account, as if we were heading for independence. Have you had discussions with the SNP on its intentions on the access of Scottish fishermen to English waters and of English fishermen to Scottish waters, if it were to achieve independence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 579345,
      "EditedText": "Forgive me if I am misinterpreting what you said earlier, John, but you seemed to indicate that in practical terms the boundary would make little difference. I heard what you said about net sizes and so on, but over time Scottish fishing legislation will diverge from that of England and Wales, in detail or in major ways. For example, this afternoon we are discussing the Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999, which I think is the first statutory instrument to apply to the new boundaries. That order will not have a significant effect in the area that we are talking about, but do you concede that legislation will not be the same in all jurisdictions, so there will be a material difference, whether for good or ill, between conditions and rules applied to fishing on one side or the other of the line?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 579347,
      "EditedText": "Until now I have said nothing as I do not consider myself an expert on the subject, but I can do so no longer. The word \"confusion\" has been used several times—I am not much less confused than I was an hour and 17 minutes ago. You have suggested that the concerns raised by the Scottish Fishermen's Federation are largely hypothetical. Where there is a new boundary, any concern about it is bound to be hypothetical,  because it has not been there before. You mentioned that oil-related debris has been certified as safe. So was Chernobyl. I do not think that that satisfies anyone's concerns. There is a fine line between a limit and a boundary. What was previously seen as a limit you suggest was not, although it is obvious that fishermen considered it a boundary, as would most people. Is it not the case that the statutory instrument was hastily drawn up, without consultation—as appears to be admitted by most people—and rushed through, and you are left in the unfortunate position of having to defend it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 579349,
      "EditedText": "I have no further questions. There is still confusion. If the measure was taken because of devolution—I understand that—it seems extraordinary that the Scottish Parliament never got the chance to debate it. I do not know what the procedure is, but if this committee has the right to ask Parliament to debate the matter, the committee should do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 579351,
      "EditedText": "Given that the way in which quotas are produced changes from time to time, that 5 to 6 per cent of Scottish fishing waters have been lost, and that that percentage is full of rich fishing grounds, will the fact that the catch returns that used to be attributed to Scottish waters will now, presumably, be reported as catches in English waters have any effect on future quota recommendations for Scottish fishermen or boats?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 579353,
      "EditedText": "I know that they do not at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Morrison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 579354,
      "EditedText": "There is a UK quota, which is divided among producer organisations throughout the UK. Members of those organisations get a part of the quota.Perhaps you are alluding to the long haul, when quota trading becomes even more intense; there are individual transferable quotas and so on. That is an important debate, but it would take far too long to go into it here and now.My only real concern is that if the UK ceased to be a unitary state, the question of quotas would loom large and the boundary would influence how quotas were carved up.The federation is extremely anxious that the new line should not be regarded as a precedent. It is all very well for people to say that independence will never happen, but it is not so long ago that people were telling me that there would never be devolution. I have to assess that hypothetical situation and calculate the risk. The lost water represents about 20 per cent of area IVb, which is one of the richest fishing grounds in Europe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 579360,
      "EditedText": "I am not a lawyer—mercifully—although from my long experience in politics and elsewhere I am well aware that one can always find lawyers to say different things to different clients, and perhaps even different things to the same client from time to time. I am not saying that that is what has happened here, but it might have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ID": 17636,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 579365,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 on the agenda is a discussion of the outcome of the EU Fisheries Council meeting. I think that we were all present when the minister, John Home Robertson, gave a statement in the chamber last Thursday. It was mentioned at the time that, in future, it might be appropriate for such statements to be given to the committee rather than to the full chamber.This item was included on the agenda to give us the opportunity to address any issues that we felt should be developed more than they were last week. It would be inappropriate to ask John to repeat last week's statement, but I invite him to make any additional comments that he feels are necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ID": 17636,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 579366,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I think that everyone here was present for last week's statement. It was a great privilege to be at the European Council as the first minister responsible for Scottish fisheries. Although it was an inconclusive agenda—someone, somewhere described it as boring—some important preliminary points were made.If we can take as read last week's statement and exchanges, I understand that members would like me to expand a little more on one or two specific points. The first is the Commission's proposal for improved dialogue with the fishing industry. We regard that as very important indeed. We are keen on dialogue with the fishing industry here in Scotland, and it is obviously all the more important that there should be good dialogue between the fishing industry and the European Commission. The Commission made an initial presentation on the issue, but there is a lot more work to be done on that. This Parliament's European Committee was particularly helpful, in accordance with the United Kingdom's agreed line; I had a paper from Hugh Henry before I went to the council. The important thing is that future discussions on the nature of the advisory committee on fisheries do not compromise what we want in relation to regional meetings. We are keen on getting a more regional approach to the management of fisheries, for example, in the North sea. Some progress has been made in that direction and there has been some discussion with ministers on that issue, which has been remitted for further consideration. I intend to ensure that Scottish interests are taken into account. I referred to the major issue of herring tariffs in last week's statement. I was pleased to represent Scottish interests on that issue in the council; I recognise the sensitivity of that species for Scottish interests. The initial proposal for a tariff suspension was not acceptable from a Scottish perspective. There will, I am afraid, be imports of herring from outside the Community, but they need to be properly managed and, as far as I am concerned, minimised. The alternative of an autonomous tariff quota is acceptable, as long as the amount is not significantly above that of the current year. I suggested a threshold of 10,000 tonnes. That is obviously a matter for negotiation and the council will come back to that at the November meeting.I am aware of the outcome of the consultation exercise on Agenda 2000 and the financial instrument for fisheries guidance, which is part of structural funds. There were no great surprises. In fact, the current FIFG proposal sits fairly comfortably alongside the outcome of the consultation exercise—there is some overlap, which is helpful. The final text of the FIFG regulation has yet to be agreed, so it is difficult to be specific about how the money will be spent and how it will be distributed within the industry. However, we want to go ahead with the prioritisation, within available resources, and we will consult the industry on that We have successfully bid for extra resources for FIFG in the objective 1 plan.Those are the main points that I want to cover at this stage, but if any member wants to raise specific points with regard either to the previous or to the next council meeting, I will take those on board. As I said last week, when substantive decisions are taken or major issues raised at the council, I will take every opportunity to report to the Parliament. On other occasions, it might be more convenient for me to report back to this committee, although there might be some overlap in responsibilities between this committee and the European Committee, which will need to be thrashed out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ID": 17636,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 579367,
      "EditedText": "Would anyone like to ask questions about the minister's report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17636,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 579373,
      "EditedText": "The Fisheries Council agenda covered structures, markets, industry consultation and statistics, therefore your point would not have been appropriate or in order. However, I assure you that representations have been made, directly and indirectly, to the Commission about that problem. You are quite right. If the original proposals were to be implemented, the use of fish meal for feeding on fish farms would, in effect, be banned and that would be rather absurd."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 579375,
      "EditedText": "I will approach the convener of the European Committee to secure his agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 579378,
      "EditedText": "Okay. If we have covered the issue as required in the agenda, it is my pleasure to thank the fisheries minister, John Home Robertson, for helping us with a number of issues today. Furthermore, I thank Derek Feeley and David Ford for accompanying the minister.We shall now proceed with our long agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 579386,
      "EditedText": "We discussed the issue at some length in the fisheries conservation group, which is a UK group involving the fisheries departments from Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales and fishermen and fishermen's representatives from all four countries. The issue received a lengthy airing in that forum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 579388,
      "EditedText": "The fisheries conservation group is relatively wide ranging. For example, associations that are members of SFF are represented as well as those that are not, including those from the Western Isles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579390",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 579390,
      "EditedText": "The lobster is notched on the tail. Martin Ritchie has a diagram—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 579391,
      "EditedText": "When I said \"where\", I meant where will the lobsters be landed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579392",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
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      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 579392,
      "EditedText": "They will be taken on board the vessel—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
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      "ID": 2066,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 579395,
      "EditedText": "I thought that they had to be taken to shore to be v-notched and tagged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 579397,
      "EditedText": "So how do the fishermen get compensated? I thought that they were getting £8 a lobster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 579398,
      "EditedText": "They keep the notch extract."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Martin Ritchie (Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 579402,
      "EditedText": "The rate for the Western Isles scheme will be about £8 per lobster. That is roughly the market price, but it will vary depending on the time of year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "EU Regulation",
      "HeadingID": 17638,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 579420,
      "EditedText": "Are we content that this matter is largely irrelevant to the Scottish market?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 579421,
      "EditedText": "We note the report and will advise the European Committee accordingly."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579433",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 579433,
      "EditedText": "That is a difficult question to answer. I do not know whether it would be appropriate to put the onus on to our clerking team at this stage. Can you comment, Richard?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 579437,
      "EditedText": "Initially, this committee acted to ensure that topical issues were raised and dealt with quickly. By proceeding that way, we may appear to be taking a piecemeal approach. We ought to avoid that. We need a structure. To make progress, we can take advantage of the investigations that we have already held and use them as part of a larger structured look at the industry and the effects that current circumstances are having on it. We will ask the clerks to suggest a structure, which we can discuss at the next meeting of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Dowie (Scottish Executive Development Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 579439,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 579442,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments or questions on the Scottish Executive's background note on rural transport?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dowie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 579444,
      "EditedText": "I do not know the detail of that exemption. My understanding is that it was for a period of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dowie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 579449,
      "EditedText": "The main way in which the Scottish Executive can contribute is through freight facilities grants which, as you correctly say, kick in only once timber reaches the railhead. Circumstances differ in different parts of the country depending on the proximity of forests to the railhead. Funding of £6 million over three years is available, some of which could be used to install equipment to help with the transfer of timber at the railhead. Colleagues are considering a number of bids for funding to do that.You are absolutely right: that does not help with the movement of timber to the railhead. In the first instance, it is for the local authority to consider the priorities across its road network and to prioritise in ways that fit with the future forestry crop."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dowie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 579455,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that the example you are thinking of does not involve a freight facility grant. The problem that we have had hitherto is that the take-up in Scotland has been zero. However, during the past 18 months much more progress has been made in securing good quality bids and in making awards. One such award was made to the Sainsbury's Inverness link, which is an extremely good project.We have been making more progress. Previously, the budget has been underspent, but we are now on target to spend the money on good value projects. The situation is much more promising than it was a few years ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 579456,
      "EditedText": "I have another question on railways. You mention the feasibility study into the Borders rail link. If it recommends that the north passenger section from Melrose to Edinburgh is worthy of support, is any money available for it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dowie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 579457,
      "EditedText": "Ministers will have to consider overall priorities in the budget in the light of the conclusions of the feasibility study. It would not be a cheap project."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 579461,
      "EditedText": "I am looking at the item in terms of rural partnerships and social inclusion partnerships. There might be scope for the encouragement of joint delivery of public services in remote areas. There is nothing in the document about supporting voluntary organisations, such as councils for voluntary service in Scotland, that deliver services across vast distances. Transport costs are crippling for voluntary organisations, some of which are funded directly by the Scottish Executive. Has any thought been given to how they will be supported?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dowie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 579462,
      "EditedText": "Voluntary organisations have a crucial role to play and in many cases it is those local organisations that get money for specific schemes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 579463,
      "EditedText": "In that case, the document should refer to voluntary and community organisations rather than public bodies. It is important that the work that such groups do—particularly in rural areas—is acknowledged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 579471,
      "EditedText": "As I am a member of both committees, I can clarify the issue. I understand that the Transport and the Environment Committee will consider the issue of the fuel price escalator. The intention of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee is to consider the effects of the pattern of different prices in different parts of Scotland. As I said at the last meeting of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, that would be of particular interest to members of the Rural Affairs Committee, because rural areas suffer the disadvantage of the variation in fuel prices."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 579472,
      "EditedText": "I nominate John Farquhar Munro."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 579474,
      "EditedText": "I nominate Irene McGugan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 579477,
      "EditedText": "As someone who lives in the north-east, I have the impression that the problem of differential pricing does not exist in the Aberdeen area to the same degree as in the Highlands and Islands. On Friday night I heard Alex Salmond say that his constituency had some of the lowest petrol prices in Scotland—I can only take his word for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 579480,
      "EditedText": "The clerks have suggested that we appoint three reporters if we can get away with it. We will do that—if that course of action fails, we will have to reconsider.I thank Mr Dowie, who is leaving the meeting now—he has been very helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 579486,
      "EditedText": "Is it appropriate to consider this report in conjunction with other reports at a subsequent meeting of the committee? That is agreed.That brings us to the end of item 7. Mike Rumbles wishes to raise an issue at this point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 579491,
      "EditedText": "Although I indicated that the committee should postpone the discussion, that was not out of any desperate desire to do so. We have a lot on the agenda and I thought that we might want more time to consider the issue. I am happy to reflect further on the item, if the committee so wishes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 579497,
      "EditedText": "The measure can be changed only by the Westminster Parliament; efforts are being made to do that there. Practically, the most useful thing that we could do would be to lend our support to those moves. My suggestion is that we recognise that this is a responsibility of Westminster and that we lend our support to efforts to have the decision changed. That would bring the matter to a suitable conclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 579500,
      "EditedText": "I have been informed that Archy Kirkwood is withdrawing that bill and intends to submit a stronger bill, which would restore the boundary to the line that previously existed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ContributionID": 579501,
      "EditedText": "Once Westminster reconvenes, whoever is first in the queue will get to bring forward a 10-minute bill. Of course, the Government could bring forward another statutory instrument, which would be a quicker way of rectifying this. We have to decide whether we should recommend to this Parliament that it supports moves in the Westminster Parliament to change the boundary as defined in the order, although there is no mechanism that allows the Scottish Parliament to support something at Westminster. Another option is for us to urge the Executive to lobby the Secretary of State for Scotland and other UK ministers to bring forward a statutory instrument to change the boundary. We could, perhaps, adopt both strategies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 579508,
      "EditedText": "In view of this discussion, it may be that we need to defer a final decision, despite Mike's stalwart efforts to bring the issue to a conclusion. There does not seem to be much common ground on how we take this forward, but clearly there will be some areas on which we can agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ContributionID": 579514,
      "EditedText": "That is the end of the part of the meeting that was to be held in public. The next item on the agenda is one that we previously agreed should be discussed in private, which is the final consideration of the draft report on amnesic shellfish poisoning. We will now, therefore, move into private session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 579286,
      "EditedText": "I have a supplementary question on this subject. The minister said that people knew what was happening. Is it not the case that the people on the committee in the House of Commons did not fully appreciate the consequences of the legislation when they were debating it?For instance, Robert Smith, one of the MPs on the committee, expressed concerns about the complexities involved, including the terminology. Russell Brown, the MP for Dumfries said: \"When I picked up a copy of the order and looked at the co-ordinates . . . I was totally confused by some of it.\" Official Report, House of Commons, Third Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, 23 March 1999; c 11Is it not the case that the committee did not appreciate what it was passing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:31.1413113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 579288,
      "EditedText": "The minister has said that there is a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. Part of the confusion relates to a comment he made in Parliament on 3 June. He said that\"after 300 years we have at last achieved a Parliament with responsibility for the whole Scottish fishing industry and 140,000 square miles of our adjacent waters.\" Official Report, 3 June 1999; Vol 1, c 251.In May, the fisheries minister for the UK Government in Scotland, Lord Sewel, said, in response to this issue, that 140,000 square miles of the British fisheries limits had been transferred from the UK Government to the Scottish Parliament. In his opening remarks, however, the minister said that 127,000 square miles had been transferred to the Scottish Parliament. He also mentioned 127,000 square miles in Parliament on 7 October. I am confused by the figures and perhaps my colleagues on the committee are as well.Is it the case that, since the Scottish Parliament was established, we have lost a further 13,000 square miles of Scottish waters, or was that a mistake by the Scottish Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:31.1413113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ID": 17636,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 579370,
      "EditedText": "To avoid importing party politics to the committee, I will keep my final comment brief. Given the industry's current unacceptable age profile, many other issues connected with fleet renewal and modernisation, such as safety, are crucial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:31.1413113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 579339,
      "EditedText": "I return to fishermen's views. Are all Scottish fishermen members of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:46.5461479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 579341,
      "EditedText": "Have you balloted your members on the issue? Have you a feeling of their collective view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:46.5461479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 579270,
      "EditedText": "You have asked an awful lot of questions; I will try to remember them, but please jog my memory if miss anything out"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 579271,
      "EditedText": "Of course. I am sorry if asked too many at once."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 579274,
      "EditedText": "Good Lord—the idea of Royal Navy vessels fishing—but let us leave the regents out of it for the time being and try to focus a little.I fully accept that fishing is a very important industry for Scotland. That is why it is such a good thing that this Parliament and this Executive have so much responsibility over such a wide area. I have already acknowledged your point about consultation. In fairness to my predecessor, Lord Sewel, a mass of consequential regulations and statutory instruments had to go through Parliament as a result of the establishment of this home rule Parliament. I cannot tell you the total number, but there were an awful lot. I do not blame anybody for the fact that some people missed some of the information that was going around.I have given an undertaking to Hamish Morrison and his colleagues that we will ensure that we consult them on anything that affects the industry in the future. As I have already said, we spent the morning doing that on a couple of issues that will directly affect the Scottish fishing industry. I look forward to working with it closely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 579275,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate what you say about Lord Sewel; he was certainly overworked. He did not have much time for agriculture either, at that time. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 579276,
      "EditedText": "I am not commenting on that. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 579279,
      "EditedText": "You cannot say that Lord Sewel did not have time so he just put it out of the way and forgot about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 579280,
      "EditedText": "That is not what I suggested. Everything was done by the book—a press release was produced and a statutory instrument was published. Anyone who wanted to know about this had access to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 579284,
      "EditedText": "Please allow the minister to answer the questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 579294,
      "EditedText": "I understand the concerns about differences in fishing codes. If codes were different in England and in Scotland, there could be problems. Would not that be a problem regardless of the location of the line?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 579299,
      "EditedText": "Earlier, I asked the minister why the Scottish Executive is defending the line so enthusiastically when its imposition was entirely the responsibility of Westminster. He replied that he could see no disadvantage to the Scottish fishing industry. With Hamish Morrison sitting right beside him, I would like the minister to take as much time as he likes to list the extensive advantages the new line gives the Scottish Fishermen's Federation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 579302,
      "EditedText": "Nor are there any disadvantages."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 579307,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that you can identify no advantages whatsoever?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 579310,
      "EditedText": "With respect, Mr Rumbles, we cannot have one without the other. If the Scottish Parliament is to have responsibility for the fishing industry, there has to be a demarcation between Scottish and English waters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 579311,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but my question is quite specific: can you, as the minister responsible for fisheries, identify any advantage whatsoever in the positioning of the line?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 579314,
      "EditedText": "Would it be in order for me to ask a question of a member of the committee, convener?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 579315,
      "EditedText": "Given that you are a member of the Parliament, I suppose that it would be appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 579317,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Fishermen's Federation, Euan Robson, members of this committee and I have bombarded you with advice that people in Scotland are unhappy with the location of the line. I understand that you do not have responsibility for the matter and my point has always been that the matter should be addressed to Westminster. What I fail to understand is why the Executive is attempting to defend the indefensible. You said that there were no advantages in the placing of the line."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 579318,
      "EditedText": "Do not put words in my mouth."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 579319,
      "EditedText": "Earlier, you said that there was no advantage and then you got a civil service note—I noticed that. When I asked you directly if there was an advantage to the placing of the line, you were silent for a while and then you said no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 579324,
      "EditedText": "With respect, that does not answer my question. People are lining up to tell the committee their objections to the moving of the boundary line. You have implied that people are content with it, but you cannot name them and we are not convinced that they exist in any great number."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 579325,
      "EditedText": "You said that the boundary line has been moved, which is an example of the use of language that has created the problem that we are dealing with. It is not true to say that the boundary line has been moved because there was no boundary line before."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 579328,
      "EditedText": "Were records checked, to determine who fished mostly in the disputed area—whether Scottish or English vessels?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 579329,
      "EditedText": "We lack information on that. There has been light policing of that territory, and there is precious little evidence of boardings or sightings of vessels from any country in that area. We do not have detailed information on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 579332,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 579334,
      "EditedText": "It would have been sensible for that information to have been factored into the equation when the line was redrawn, to determine which nation's vessels had fished primarily in that area. I am surprised that that was not done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 579336,
      "EditedText": "There will be other areas that are a long way south of the line, which I am determined that we should keep. Determining the balance of fishing effort in an area is not necessarily the most relevant way of approaching the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Morrison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 579342,
      "EditedText": "No, we do not operate in that way. The associations are democratic within themselves and have a weighted representation in the federation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Morrison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 579344,
      "EditedText": "Our policy is not to discuss or seek to influence political parties' policies. We deal directly with the Government, although we are at all times anxious to assist all parties to a better understanding of the fishing industry and our policies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 579346,
      "EditedText": "It could happen, and not only on either side of the line, as some types of regulations might be applied locally. Consideration of regulations on net sizes or gear types for that sector of the North sea would have to be co-ordinated closely with our colleagues south of the border, and in other North sea countries, for that matter. If we move towards regional management of the common fisheries policy, that is a possibility. It is important that there should be co-ordination to avoid the aggravation to which Alasdair Morgan and Hamish Morrison have referred."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 579348,
      "EditedText": "It is not my job to defend anything. My job is to take responsibility for the fishing industry in Scotland in the area that we are talking about. I have acknowledged that I would have liked much more proactive consultation about the designation of the new boundary when it happened, but the line on which the UK Parliament decided is now in place. I have also acknowledged that it would be possible for the UK Parliament to change the boundary, if it thought fit. If I thought that there were some strong reason to make representations for a shift in the boundary, I, not least as a member of the UK Parliament, might well do that.The oil industry was mentioned. Three sea bed structures were given official sea bed clearance certificates in 1995, to show that they were free of debris and acceptable for normal commercial fishing. Were there to be a problem with those structures, the civil jurisdiction legislation would allow fishermen to raise an action against the company concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 579350,
      "EditedText": "At the risk of being accused of favouritism towards my own group, we will take Jamie McGrigor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Morrison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 579352,
      "EditedText": "Quotas do not quite work in that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 579362,
      "EditedText": "In view of the length of the agenda and the long session that we have just had, perhaps we should take time to look over the evidence and defer consideration of our next steps until the next meeting—but that is just one opinion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 579364,
      "EditedText": "In that case, we will defer consideration of the issue until our next meeting, when we will decide how we wish to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ID": 17636,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 579369,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful to Mr Lochhead for his comments on our approach to regional management. I want to preface my remarks by saying that I am absolutely certain that he will be totally committed to supporting Scottish fishing interests and Scottish fishing communities. It would be helpful if he acknowledged that I am similarly committed. There is not much to be gained from issuing press statements alleging that colleagues from any party are hostile to Scottish fishing interests. Mr Lochhead might want to come back on that.The figure of 10,000 quoted for herring imports is a negotiating figure. As the member probably knows, the current level of imports into the Community is about 20,000 tonnes. I wanted to put down a strong marker that we do not want that to increase, but we want it to be reduced. If the Danish, Dutch or other processing industries want more herring, we want them to buy it from within the European Union and, indeed, from Scotland—our catching fleet can supply us with substantial amounts of herring—rather than to import it from elsewhere.The main difficulty with fleet renewal is that other member states may take advantage of public funding to increase the catching capacity of their fleets. That would fly in the face of all our efforts to restrict catching capacity and bring it into line with the sustainability of stocks. Our main concern is to ensure that other member states—I will leave it to colleagues on the committee to identify which states we have in mind—do not try to increase their capacity. Having enunciated that principle and argued that we want any funding that is made available for fleet renewal to be subject to a 30 per cent reduction in capacity elsewhere, we would have to apply it to ourselves. When we know what the FIFG scheme entails and what the resources are, we will address—in consultation with our friends in the Scottish Fishermen's Federation—how best to use those resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ID": 17636,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 579372,
      "EditedText": "The matter did not appear in your statement, minister, but did you discuss the problems that our fish processing industry will face in light of the proposed directive that will impose very low dioxin limits in fish meal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ID": 17636,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 579374,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any further questions relating to the minister's statement? If not, the clerk has suggested that we consider the matter of the minister reporting back to this committee and to the European Committee. Do we need to consider the demarcation lines between the committees' responsibilities? Or do we need to ensure that the committees can meet jointly to receive reports when that is appropriate?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C579376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ID": 17636,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 579376,
      "EditedText": "As was evidenced by the minister's statement, a number of members did not have time to participate. I encourage the minister to consider continuing to make statements to the full chamber. Fisheries is of great interest to a number of members and it would be helpful if he was prepared to make such statements when significant issues are involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17637,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 579379,
      "EditedText": "We have copies of this order together with explanatory notes, and Mr Martin Ritchie from the Executive is here to explain the terminology if need be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 579380,
      "EditedText": "Mr Feeley could give a brief statement on this rather technical issue, if that would be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 579381,
      "EditedText": "Before we ask the gentleman concerned to proceed, I should say that the committee simply seeks an explanation of the background of and technical issues involved in the instrument. We do not require any great detail, just that we understand what it is that we are about to pass."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 579383,
      "EditedText": "That is b-e-r-r-i-e-d."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 579384,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The shellfish are not wearing French hats.A proposed scheme that we understand will start in the Western Isles in spring or early summer next year will be Scotland's first v-notching scheme. Demand from Western Isles fishermen to have the order in place to support their voluntary scheme provided much of the impetus for taking this order ahead of other associated technical conservation orders. An order has been brought forward for Scotland and there are two other orders, one for English and Irish waters and the other for Welsh waters.The Scottish order will make it an offence for any British boat to land a v-notched lobster or crawfish in Scotland, which will support any v-notching schemes being run. The order also prohibits fishing for v-notched creatures by Scottish boats anywhere and by other British boats within the Scottish zone. In recognition of the fact that fishermen will occasionally catch v-notched creatures quite unintentionally, the order enables fishermen to avoid committing an offence if they simply return the lobster or crawfish to the sea.The order itself is relatively straightforward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 579387,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned fishermen's representatives and that reminded me of something that Mr Morrison said about the membership of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. He said that that organisation tends to deal with the larger boats. How many lobster fishermen are represented?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 579396,
      "EditedText": "They are v-notched on the vessel and returned immediately to the sea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 579403,
      "EditedText": "It will be based on market prices."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 579405,
      "EditedText": "How many lobsters do you hope to v-notch?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 579411,
      "EditedText": "In that case, should we not include all fishing vessels that have the notch-tailed lobsters aboard, and accept that that is committing an offence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 579412,
      "EditedText": "That would go beyond the scope of a national measure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 579415,
      "EditedText": "I prepared the paper to lead us into the discussion, but we have covered most of the issues that we wanted to raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 579417,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, gentlemen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 579424,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that all members of this committee will share Mr Mundell's disgust at the fact that beef producers were feeding sewage to their livestock. We are all dismayed at the hypocrisy that is being shown by other European countries that refuse to accept Scottish and UK beef at the same time as their methods of production are under scrutiny.I am not, however, sure what Mr Mundell is asking this committee to investigate. The sewage issue would be more properly investigated by the Health and Community Care Committee, as it is an issue of public health that falls under the jurisdiction of the minister for health. There are, however, other issues that we wish to examine: whether there is a level playing field, which is about more than the refusal of France and Germany to accept British beef; whether spinal cord material is removed from the feed of animals in other European countries as it is here; and animal welfare, particularly in relation to pig farming.There is also an issue about the labelling of foodstuffs: not only about labelling that includes the countries of origin of the food that we eat, but about the labelling of animal feedstuffs. Farmers in this country will advise us that they were not aware that they were feeding dead beasts to their cattle. That is because of the way in which feedstuffs were labelled with information about protein content, carbohydrate content and so on. Farmers, therefore, did not know the origins of what they were feeding their cows. That is part of the problem that started the bovine spongiform encephalopathy crisis. I doubt that French farmers have labels that tell them that their cattle feedstuffs contain sewage or human waste."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 579432,
      "EditedText": "Does the Parliament have sufficient resources, especially for the clerks, to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 579434,
      "EditedText": "We will attempt to cope with whatever you ask us to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 579438,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is transport in rural areas. That is why Mr John Dowie is here—I apologise to him for what happened earlier.We note that lead responsibility for rural transport lies with the Transport and the Environment Committee, but this committee has always said that it believes transport is an important issue in which it wishes to be involved. We have received a submission from the Scottish Executive development department. Mr John Dowie will speak on this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 579445,
      "EditedText": "So the exemption is temporary and then petrol stations have to fit vapour recovery equipment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 579447,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 579448,
      "EditedText": "Section 20 on the logistical requirements of the Scottish forestry industry says:\"Amongst options being investigated is the potential for moving more timber by rail.\" I am aware that local authorities in areas with a large amount of forestry, such as Dumfries and Galloway, are concerned about how they will be able to make sufficient money available to upgrade roads to the requirements of the forestry industry. Although trying to move more timber by rail is admirable, the timber has to get to the railhead, so roads will still have to be upgraded.Can you give more detail on how some of those improvements might be financed without putting an undue burden on local authorities, which already have problems maintaining their road systems?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dowie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 579451,
      "EditedText": "There are no plans to extend the tariff rebate subsidy to cover that sort of cargo, but the Executive plans to legislate—either in Scotland or via Westminster—to permit subsidies to be given to facilitate the carriage of timber and other goods by coastal shipping. That will allow the £6 million I mentioned earlier to be invested in equipment at docks to allow the transfer of timber and other goods."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 579454,
      "EditedText": "Am I right in thinking that freight facilities grants have been available for some time? It is not an innovation. Can you give us a candid assessment of how successful those grants have been in rural Scotland?In Kyle of Lochalsh, a siding or something was installed recently. I have been told that only one train ever went out of it and that it has now been junked. Have the grants been a realistic proposition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 579458,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add to the point that Dr Murray made, because it is important that the Executive understands how important the problem is. Some forestry companies have applied for extract licences for timber, only to find that—for understandable budgetary reasons—local authorities are not able to upgrade the roads to the necessary standard. The economic return on forestry is not great. Local authorities are suggesting that forestry companies pay for road upgrading, but the companies cannot afford it. We are in danger of developing blocks of forestry that have reached their maturity but will not be extracted, even though they are in accessible areas. The trees will go to rot and will constitute a great waste of taxpayers' money. The situation is unacceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 579460,
      "EditedText": "The grant-aided assistance figure applies to the roads for which the local authority is responsible, not to additional roads. In that sense, a burden is being placed on local authorities because they are having to extend the road network while receiving finance only for existing roads."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 579470,
      "EditedText": "The description I have been given indicates that we have a standard invitation to become involved in the committee's inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 579464,
      "EditedText": "Mr McGrigor made a suggestion about getting some freight onto rail and into the harbours. You used a different word: docks. We do not have docks in the remote areas of Scotland; we have little fishing harbours that are sometimes used to transport freight.Some excellent initiatives are being promoted in relation to Mr McGrigor's suggestion, although they are at an early stage. I heard  mention of the initiative that was promoted in Kyle of Lochalsh, on which a great deal of money was well spent. The enthusiasm was there to deliver the freight—particularly timber—by rail to Kyle of Lochalsh. Sadly, most of the freight that comes in to the western isles comes by road. Why that should be, I do not know: the facility is there to handle the freight. The freight handling company of British Rail is dragging its feet and should be encouraged to get more freight onto trains.Last weekend, I heard that one of the big freight-to-rail initiatives, involving a supermarket company delivering to the north of Scotland, had adapted a magnificent container system for the route. That system takes goods to the north, to Inverness, from where it is transported to the peripheries and the far north. An initiative was proposed locally to back-load the containers with dairy products from Inverness and the Sutherland region to take them to the central belt. Apparently, that is not permitted under the regulations. The container is coming back empty. That seems stupid. Because of the grant award, the containers are dedicated to freight for the supermarket—and nothing else. This is an opportunity for sensible co-operation, which would generate some traffic on the rail network. Jamie McGrigor made an excellent point about the small harbours and the rail freight handling facilities. We must not forget that we have to transport the commodity over substandard roads to get to the pier or the railway station. We must not forget the tremendous expenditure that is still required to support and extend the infrastructure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dowie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 579465,
      "EditedText": "My use of the word docks was not meant to imply large facilities only—any transfer point from land to sea is appropriate, excluding beaches. The issue of back-loading has been raised by many people and we are currently considering the possibilities. However, members will appreciate that there are rules to avoid cross-subsidy and to achieve value for money. It is not straightforward. I also acknowledge the point that one has to use the roads to get to a railhead or a dock."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 579468,
      "EditedText": "It is a matter of particular concern to members from the Highlands, and I think that at least one of the representatives should be from the Highlands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 579469,
      "EditedText": "Is the inquiry on differential petrol pricing alone? Some of the earlier parts of the document that we have been discussing refer to the effect of the fuel price escalator on petrol pricing. I am not clear what it has to do with differential petrol pricing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 579473,
      "EditedText": "I nominate Rhoda Grant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 579475,
      "EditedText": "John Farquhar Munro, Rhoda Grant and Irene McGugan have been nominated. Do we have a view on how we want to be represented? I do not want to have a vote on this question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 579476,
      "EditedText": "This issue certainly does not just affect the Highlands and Islands. I accept that differentials are much higher on the islands, but there are significant differentials elsewhere, so a wider representation might be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 579478,
      "EditedText": "Maybe Alex Salmond just knows the right place to go.There is nothing to stop any member of this committee attending and being included in the business of meetings of the Transport and the Environment Committee. We are simply appointing reporters, who will report back to us. Given that there are a number of political balances in this committee to consider, would it be appropriate to have one reporter from within the Executive group and one from outside it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 525.0,
      "ContributionID": 579481,
      "EditedText": "Item 7 is the inquiry into employment patterns in rural communities. A briefing paper from the Scottish Executive has been circulated but, unfortunately, as a result of illness in the Scottish Parliament information centre team, the scoping report that we had expected to have by now is not available. We were rather depending on having that report, as it will lead to the questions that we have to ask in the inquiry.I propose that we deal momentarily with the content of the Executive briefing paper and decide whether it contains omissions that we want to be addressed. However, in the absence of the scoping report, I propose that we continue discussion of this item at the next meeting.Is there anything in the Executive briefing paper that requires to be developed, or—more to the point—is there anything that the paper does not address?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 529.0,
      "ContributionID": 579483,
      "EditedText": "Should we consider the Executive briefing paper in conjunction with the scoping report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 579487,
      "EditedText": "Before we move into private session, I want to say that I am not terribly happy that we have left the first agenda item up in the air—I hope that other committee members share that feeling. I do not think that it is particularly helpful to defer the item to a meeting in a fortnight's time. As we have already received the evidence, we need to decide what to do now. This is not an issue for the Scottish Parliament, so it would be helpful for the committee to recognise the fact that Archy Kirkwood is producing a bill to change the boundary back to its initial position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 579494,
      "EditedText": "What sort of representation do we make as a committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 579495,
      "EditedText": "Having decided to reconsider the matter, we have to retrace our steps to the end of the evidence that we received earlier. We now have to decide how to progress the matter. My short summing-up of the evidence is intended to stimulate debate and committee members are welcome to express opinions.This morning, we heard that there was a strong feeling that this issue should not be laid to rest. As I have perhaps jokingly suggested at previous meetings, the committee can always accept the situation that has arisen and push it no further. However, the majority of committee members have consistently taken the view that we should not take that course of action.It was also made very clear in our earlier question-and-answer session with Hamish Morrison and John Home Robertson that several issues are connected with this, some of which stray well outside the remit of the Rural Affairs Committee. We were concerned specifically about those issues that affect the fishing industry, but on a number of occasions we found ourselves discussing matters that were not primarily rural affairs or fishing issues. For that reason, and given the balance of views that have been expressed, it would be appropriate for us to report to the Parliament on the discussion that took place. We could suggest that time be allocated in the Parliament for further debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 579499,
      "EditedText": "We all agree that this measure would have to be changed by the Westminster Parliament, because we are dealing with an intra-UK boundary. At issue is what we should do. It is a bit anodyne for us to recommend to the Parliament that it debates the subject again. The committee should express a view; the question is what that view should be. Archy Kirkwood has a 10-minute bill, but that will fall when Parliament is prorogued in a couple of weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ContributionID": 579502,
      "EditedText": "I do not accept that it is the settled view of the committee that we want to support Archy Kirkwood's bill. If the matter is as significant as we have been told, any recommendation should come from the Parliament as a whole. From the evidence that we heard today—I have also had discussions with the Scottish Fishermen's Federation over several months—I am not satisfied that the federation has brought forward a compelling case that its material interests have been affected. On that basis, I would not want to subscribe to a committee recommendation that Westminster replaces the order. If we note that this is Westminster's responsibility and that measures are being discussed there, that will be appropriate and sufficient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 579504,
      "EditedText": "The issue has been debated in Parliament. We have heard more representations today. This is not an issue for this Parliament. Almost everybody here would want the boundary to be put right, but the place to do that is Westminster. We do not need another in-depth report and to go through the motions again. We have a good opportunity here to flag up the issue and to recommend that action be taken in the Westminster Parliament, which is where responsibility for it must lie. If we do not do that, the affair will go on and on. We must deal with the issue now—that is why I asked for it to be debated again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 579506,
      "EditedText": "A couple of views have been expressed. How do other members feel about the issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 579507,
      "EditedText": "I am sympathetic to both views. The state opening of the new parliamentary year at Westminster is not for some weeks yet, so we do not have to arrive at a conclusion before then. However, that timetable relates only to this committee. The other problem, if we assume that we are going to recommend to the Scottish Parliament that it should take a particular course of action, is that the Parliamentary Bureau would need to decide whether to select a motion for debate and to find a slot in which to debate it. We cannot control that part of the timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 579509,
      "EditedText": "If the committee is minded to make a recommendation, we need a little time to decide to whom it is appropriate to make it. We can make a recommendation to the Scottish Parliament, but I am not sure that we have any authority to make a representation to Westminster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 579510,
      "EditedText": "I am inclined to agree with Mike Rumbles that there must be a sense of urgency, but the feeling that I get from members is that it would be appropriate to request a short draft report, highlighting the main issues that have been discussed. We need a range of options on how best to progress. The issue must be dealt with as a matter of urgency. A final decision must be taken at our next meeting. Mike, is that okay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17641,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 579511,
      "EditedText": "I notice that you use the word \"final\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 579512,
      "EditedText": "We will therefore proceed on those terms and make a note of Mike Rumbles's desire to see the issue dealt with as a matter of urgency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 579513,
      "EditedText": "We all want it to be dealt with as a matter of urgency—or at least relative urgency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 595.0,
      "ContributionID": 579515,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 579230,
      "EditedText": "The committee will hear evidence from Mr Hamish Morrison and Mr John Home Robertson. The background to this issue is as follows. On 29 June, the issue was raised before the committee, which decided to assess the scope for investigation of the impact of changes to the Scottish fisheries zone, following Executive consultation with the industry. At a meeting on 5 October, the committee considered a letter from the Scottish Executive rural affairs department. After discussing that, we agreed to seek evidence from the Scottish Fishermen's Federation and from the minister on the outcome of the consultation.To that end, we have invited to today's meeting the two gentlemen who sit before us. I propose to begin by inviting Mr Hamish Morrison to make a presentation to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 579240,
      "EditedText": "It would be out of order for anyone in this Parliament to suggest what the Westminster Parliament should do, except for those of us who are members of it, of course. Archy Kirkwood, who is my constituency neighbour, is well able to raise points at Westminster that he feels are of concern.I would add that I represent Dunbar and, while I have had representations from fishermen there on other issues, I have not had representations on this issue. That is because Scottish fishermen continue to have full access to fish not only the 6,000 square miles we are talking about, but the rest of the United Kingdom waters. That is the important issue, and we have ensured that it is safeguarded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 579241,
      "EditedText": "Hamish, what opportunities have you had to raise the matter with ministers in the Scottish Executive and the UK Government?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs (Mr John Home Robertson): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 579233,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. Before I go any further I should introduce the officials who are with me. On my immediate left is Derek Feeley, the head of sea fisheries in the rural affairs department. With him are his colleagues David Ford and Martin Ritchie.I thank the committee for the opportunity to come and discuss this matter. I served on a select committee in Westminster for a long time and spent a lot of time in the position that you are in today. I am keen to have a good relationship with members of the committee and with our friends in the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. It is entirely appropriate that I am sitting shoulder to shoulder with Hamish. The only thing that I am uncomfortable about is the fact that I am sitting on what are usually nationalist benches. I hope that there is nothing contagious about these seats.I welcome the chance to address the subject of the east coast boundary, which needs to be clarified. The matter is close to my heart. My constituency is East Lothian and, in the past, I represented part of Euan Robson's committee. I have regular contact with fishermen from Eyemouth and have other direct connections with that part of the country.The issue has generated a lot of confusing and downright sensational comments to the effect that the English have stolen 6,000 square miles of Scottish fishing waters. That sounds alarming, but there is no truth in it. It would be helpful if all of us could accept, as Hamish did, that when most of us—yourself excepted, convener—voted for a Parliament for Scotland with responsibility for Scottish fisheries, a demarcation line had to be created where none had been before.I suggest that the most appropriate place to set a boundary line is on a median line. That is what was done. That leaves the Scottish Parliament with responsibility for two thirds of Britain's fishing waters: 127,000 square miles of fishing grounds. That is quite a lot. Most important of all is the fact that the demarcation line does not affect our fishermen's right to fish where they have always fished, whether in the area that we are talking about today or anywhere else.We should all concentrate on developing the prospects of Scotland's fishing communities in the Scottish zone and elsewhere. That is the important issue. Anybody who read the papers recently might be concerned that our fishermen were being denied access to areas that they had fished in the past. That is not true.Hamish raised three points. The first was the manner of the fixing of the line. I accept that it is best that there should be open discussion about anything that affects the fishing industry and I spent most of this morning in meetings on different issues that relate to the industry. I look forward to working closely with Hamish and his colleagues. Sometimes I will be able to give them the answer that they want and sometimes I will not, but I want to be open with them.In fairness to my colleagues who dealt with these matters before the establishment of this Parliament, I will mention a press release that was issued on 8 March 1999. It was circulated to 55 press sources, and I am assured that a copy went to the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. It explains that a boundary is to be introduced, for the reasons that we have been discussing, and says that the boundary that was set out in the draft order relies on the widespread convention of establishing median lines.I accept that issuing a press release is not always the best way of getting things into the public domain. From my experience at Westminster, I know that one has a better chance of getting things into the press if one marks them \"confidential\" and leaves them in a wastepaper basket. In fairness, though, that press release did go out. I would have preferred it if there had been a meeting at which the matter could have been discussed face to face. Clearly, a lot of people were not aware of what was happening.That was stage 1. The order then went through committees of the House of Commons and was considered in committee on 23 March 1999. The report of that meeting is published and is available in the vote office in the House of Commons. Any member from any party can attend committees and can take part in debates. The order was debated and I was aware that it was going through. Because I was satisfied that the median line was appropriate and that there were guarantees that our fishermen would continue to have access to the areas that they had always fished, I was not concerned. The order went through with proper notification and scrutiny in the House of Commons. That is my first point.My second point concerns the location of the line. I do not accept that a median line is illogical. A median line is the fairest way of creating a new boundary line. I am a little nervous about the question of historic demarcation patrolling lines, because I am advised that, on the west coast, the Royal Air Force was conducting patrols for the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food up to a line just north of Campbeltown. If we were to accept the patrolling line on the east coast as the right boundary, we might find that we had surrendered—well, let us not go down that road. That would be pointless. I honestly think that a median line is the best option.A range of hypothetical problems about civil jurisdiction and oil installations has been flagged up. However, I am satisfied that the median line is appropriate. That has been done in accordance with their responsibilities by our colleagues in Westminster. I hope that, in the light of the evidence, the committee will agree that there is no sensible case for demanding that waters that are closer to the English coast than they are to the Scottish coast should be transferred to the Scottish zone. With two thirds of the UK's territorial and fishing waters, we have quite enough to be getting on with. The most important responsibility for me as fisheries minister, as well as for the Executive and for Parliament, is to ensure that we protect the best interests of our Scottish fishing communities. That is what I intend to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 579235,
      "EditedText": "Why do the minister and the Executive go to great lengths to defend the new demarcation line, when the responsibility for its imposition lies entirely with the Westminster Government? The Scottish Executive had no responsibility whatever for imposing the order, so I am rather puzzled by the minister's attitude."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 579243,
      "EditedText": "You were kind enough to show me some of that correspondence. John Reid asked you to address whether the change in the boundary made a material difference to the interests of Scottish fishermen. Will you tell us your response?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 579246,
      "EditedText": "Although I would love to address all Mr Morrison's points, I will focus on the two that Mr Macdonald has highlighted. I have to tell the committee that all these anxieties are hypothetical. The question of the prosecution of offences is perhaps all the more hypothetical. According to all the information that we have been able to trawl through, if I can use that verb, there have been no cases of anyone being prosecuted for offences in such an area. However, more often than not, people are prosecuted for fishing infringements in the port where they land, because that is where the fisheries officer does all the detailed work on the fish that have been caught. If any evidence comes to light at port that a Scottish boat fishing in a boundary area has broken the rules, the prosecution would take place in that port. We are enforcing European law, which applies right across the board.However, that is very hypothetical, as no such incidents have happened yet. I suppose that fishermen might be hauled into Berwick magistrates court instead of Duns sheriff court over something flagrant such as a hot pursuit—those towns are only about 11 miles from each other. However, although I take the point about rights of appearance for Scottish solicitors, we are not talking about a very big deal.There will be no difference in fishing codes. It would be ludicrous for the department to create difficulties by stipulating different mesh sizes on the Scottish section of the Berwick bank. That would be madness. I cannot imagine that anyone with my responsibilities would contemplate such a proposal. As a result, that point is equally hypothetical.I would love to talk about gas and independence, but I have not been asked to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 579248,
      "EditedText": "At the time, I was not a minister at Westminster. I was not directly involved, so I honestly do not know. That is something that you could pursue with Westminster, if you wanted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 579249,
      "EditedText": "Regardless of that, you will accept that we are now in the situation of having two boundaries: one for the order that we are discussing and the other for the Civil Jurisdiction (Offshore Activities) Order 1987. Do you think that that is a sensible or sustainable position, and can you think of any precedent for it? Are there any other two jurisdictions for which there are different boundaries?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 579250,
      "EditedText": "Off the cuff, I cannot think of any. Civil jurisdiction is an internal UK matter, but the Scottish Parliament has separate responsibilities for fisheries. I put to you again that the point about civil jurisdiction is somewhat hypothetical. As far as I know, there are three decommissioned oil installations in the area that we are discussing, which was certified a couple of years ago as safe for normal commercial fishing. There are two further installations in the area, which will be disposed of in the same way. There should be no question of vessels getting snagged on them and there being consequential proceedings for civil compensation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 579256,
      "EditedText": "There are various ways of fixing boundaries. The most straightforward and the commonest is to take the median line, which has been used here. That seems to me to be fair, particularly given that the decision does not impinge in any way on access to fisheries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 579260,
      "EditedText": "I have no doubt that Mr McLeish meant exactly what he said, but I am here to talk about the fisheries boundary, which I think has been set on a correct median line. Given that that does not impinge on our fishermen's rights to fish, there is not a lot more that I can say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C579261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 579261,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for allowing me to be here today. I think that the minister will accept that, prior to the new boundary being established, there was very little in the way of dispute over, or even discussion of, the old custom-and-practice boundary. Will the minister also accept that the boundary was included in the annual reports of the Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency, among others? Could he explain why it was not seen to be appropriate to use the boundary that was acknowledged in public documents, and why the median line was used instead?No doubt Mr Home Robertson will be aware of the references in the Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency's annual reports. People are baffled as to why the custom and practice line that was established by public documents was changed. Can the minister enlighten us as to why there should be any need to change from what was acceptable previously?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C579263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 579263,
      "EditedText": "My constituents were accustomed to what they considered to be a boundary. The nub of the issue is that, had there been consultation prior to the introduction of the median line, it would have been clearly established that they were accustomed to a boundary. Although technically there was no boundary, to all intents and purposes all of those concerned knew where they stood. If one accepts that there was no line there previously, one must accept the median line, but a number of us do not accept that there was no line there before.The minister will be aware that this is a matter of confidence among members of the fishing community. We have heard that the Scottish Fishermen's Federation has real concerns, particularly about the future. The minister is saying that all this is not a matter for consideration—that there are no serious issues, that there is no effect, that in practical terms it does not matter, that we have established a line and that there will be no practical or financial impact on fisheries. If that is accepted, and if it is accepted that there has been a loss of confidence in the fishing community, why cannot the boundary line be changed? If it is all insignificant, why cannot the boundary be put back where it was, to restore confidence in the fishing community?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17634,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 17634,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Alex Johnstone): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 579229,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It is my pleasure to welcome everyone here to this meeting of the Rural Affairs Committee. I welcome members who are not members of the committee—Mr Jamie McGrigor and Euan Robson—who have come along because they expressed an interest in the business that we are conducting today. I invite both those gentlemen to participate in this meeting, should they want to do so.I welcome the Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs with responsibility for fisheries, Mr John Home Robertson, who is here to give evidence on item 1. I also welcome Mr Hamish Morrison, the chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation, who is also here to give evidence on item 1. Finally, I express the committee's welcome to members of the public, who are here to observe the procedures of the committee. This is the first occasion on which this committee has met in the chamber. It is an interesting experiment, and I hope that it will be a success."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamish Morrison (Chief Executive, Scottish Fishermen's Federation): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 579231,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Mr Johnstone. Ladies and gentlemen, it is good of you to invite me here to address you on this subject, which continues to cause difficulty for, and considerable irritation to, fishermen.First, I shall introduce the Scottish Fishermen's Federation to those of you who are not familiar with that organisation. We represent the eight main fishing associations in Scotland, which, between them, account for around 90 per cent of the country's total catching capacity. What I shall say to the committee today was discussed at our executive committee, which contains representatives of all eight of our associations. That meeting took place last Friday. I do not mean to weary the committee with the history and the ins and outs of this issue, which have been rehearsed in this Parliament and elsewhere ad nauseam. However, I shall make one or two points that I think are important.Fishermen throughout Scotland have found the introduction of this measure—this new sea boundary for fisheries off the east coast—offensive, in the manner in which it was introduced. Putting it kindly, the implementation was a presentational disaster. There was no consultation before the event, nor was there any explanation after it. Fishermen and their representatives, myself included, discovered entirely by accident that this measure had been enacted.I wish you to understand that fishermen are routinely consulted by Government on everything that affects them. Before I left the office last night, I checked and found that there are four draft statutory instruments that are currently the subject of consultation between ourselves and Government. We would have expected to have been consulted on the matter of a new line. Oddly enough, during the week that I found out about the new median line, we had a letter from the then Scottish Office agriculture and fisheries department telling us that there was about to be a change to the fishing boundary between the Faeroes and Scotland. The letter pointed out that that change would result in a small loss of territory and told us why it was happening. There was not much need to inform us of that.The second problem that we have with this measure is that it is illogical. We do not think that it is appropriate to have recourse to an international convention to establish an internal boundary in a unitary state. The way in which the Government chose to employ that convention is inappropriate. The convention is often used where two land masses are opposite, such as inlets, straits or channels. In cases similar to this, where the border runs more or less at right angles to the land mass, the convention is almost never used. We are puzzled by that.Above all, this matter was unnecessary. There are two pre-existing lines along which the line could have been drawn. We do not dissent from the fact that a line was needed—we have always accepted that—but why generate a new one when there was a choice of two? We went to see the secretary of state and he said that there was no fisheries boundary and never had been. I thought that there was one. The Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency thought that there was a boundary—it used to publish that in its annual report, although I notice that it has not done so this year. Many people thought that there was a boundary, but we must take the secretary of state at his word.There is, however, another line—a civil jurisdiction line—that creates a perfectly acceptable division between the two countries. We have wondered why, in this day and age and bearing in mind that we are still a unitary state, we need two borders between England and Scotland that are 60 miles apart. Why not use one line, the original jurisdiction line for offshore activities? The fishermen would be perfectly happy to accept that line as marking the division, and I offer that proposal to the committee and to the Government in a spirit of co-operation and in the hope that we can resolve this matter and move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 579247,
      "EditedText": "Minister, are you in a position to give us any indication about how the boundary was drawn up? Did the Government say to civil servants, \"We accept that we need a boundary because of legislation. Draw the line and come back with it\", or were the civil servants given more of a steer about how to draw up the boundary? Furthermore, who precisely came up with the boundary line?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 579252,
      "EditedText": "That is outwith my responsibility, which is for fisheries. However, if someone were to say that it was anomalous that territory that is closer to England than it is to Scotland falls under Scottish jurisdiction, I might be forced to agree—although that is none of my business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 579253,
      "EditedText": "If I may press you on that, are you suggesting that the new fisheries boundary be adopted as the civil jurisdiction boundary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 579258,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that it is the most common way of fixing boundaries. I am not briefed to go into enormous detail. I am not sure how boundaries are fixed between certain American states, and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 579262,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful to my constituency neighbour for raising those points because of his use of terms such as established boundary and custom-and-practice line. There was no boundary. There was a limit to the patrolling area of the SFPA on the east coast as on the west coast. Earlier, I mentioned that our neighbouring authorities patrolled much further north on the west coast, but that is no big deal. There was no boundary, but it became necessary to introduce one when most of us voted to establish this Parliament because we had to take responsibility for fisheries in Scotland. It seems to me to be perfectly appropriate that the median line approach was adopted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 579264,
      "EditedText": "Anything can be changed, but not by this Parliament. The Westminster Parliament could change it, if it decided to do so. If somebody could take groans to colleagues in the Westminster Parliament and suggest that the median line is in some way unfair, that could be a concern, but it is not a matter for this Parliament. That is something we must accept.I used to represent a chunk of Mr Robson's constituency. I still live in his constituency and I have a lot of good friends in Eyemouth. I fully understand that alarm has been raised in some areas. People have suggested that our fishing waters have been stolen. The implication is that our people may be denied access, or may be subject to harassment by the Royal Navy, or may be subject to different regulations. Put in those terms, the situation sounds alarming. Mr Robson says that there are real concerns in the fishing industry, but I put it to him and the committee that although there are perhaps hypothetical concerns in the fishing industry and, in certain circumstances, problems could be created, it is my job to ensure that problems do not arise—and that is what I intend to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C579265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 579265,
      "EditedText": "I have two quick remarks to make, although I am conscious that other members want to participate in the discussion.I accept what the minister says about it being for Westminster to make any change. That is well understood—the order was made under the Scotland Act 1998—but it must be made clear to the minister that if all this amounts to nothing in particular in the Executive's view and the Westminster Government's view, and it is not a significant matter, it should not be a problem to change things back. If practical concerns were at issue, there would be an argument to restore the boundary to its former position. Without those concerns, that argument cannot be deployed to say that the boundary line must stay where it is. That is the point that I am trying to address. I accept what the minister says, particularly about Westminster and misconceptions in some quarters, but it is wrong to use the argument that, as it does not amount to much, we will not change the boundary. That is an argument for putting it back where it was, to restore confidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 579266,
      "EditedText": "Be careful: you must not believe your own rhetoric all the time. You are saying that the boundary should be put back where it was, but it was not where you think it was—there was no boundary. Yes, the Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency patrolled down to that line, just as people from the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food patrolled up to another line elsewhere. That was not the boundary. There are all sorts of lines on maps, but they are not all boundaries. There was no boundary. There had to be a new boundary as a consequence of the fact that we have a Scottish Parliament, and that boundary is the median line. Provided that the boundary does not impinge on the rights of our fishermen, no useful purpose would be served by stoking the matter up further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 579267,
      "EditedText": "I have a brief supplementary question. The minister rightly says that it is a matter for Westminster. If the Scottish Executive were to say to the Secretary of State for Scotland that it felt that a reversion to what people previously understood to be the boundary would be a good thing, I am sure that the Secretary of State for Scotland would take that seriously. Would the minister and the Executive be prepared to make those representations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 579273,
      "EditedText": "I do not agree with them at all—I have to make that very clear. I was fully aware of where the line was—it went out from Marshall Meadows and had done since 1100 and something. English ships were always kept behind that line whenever they sent regents up to try to rule Scotland. When they were pushed back, there must have been some sort of boundary. Their support ships fished too, so there were fishing boats."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 579282,
      "EditedText": "I have acknowledged that, as far as I was concerned—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579283",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
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      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 579283,
      "EditedText": "But we did not have any Scottish—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 579289,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair cop. I was initially advised that the total area of the Scottish zone is 140,000 square miles. Subsequent clarification, or more precise measurement, has lead to advice that it is 127,000 square miles. Whether someone was measuring in nautical miles and somebody else was measuring in terrestrial miles I cannot tell you, but I am assured that 127,000 square miles is the correct figure. It is two thirds of Britain's fisheries and it is quite a lot to have responsibility for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 579291,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and Opposition spokesmen sometimes make mistakes too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Morrison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 579295,
      "EditedText": "The point that I was making was that the line runs through the Berwick bank, which is an important fishing ground. The old line—I beg your pardon, I ought to say custom-and-practice line—was well clear of any discrete fishing banks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Morrison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 579297,
      "EditedText": "As far as I know, there have been none at all. Nor have there been any boardings or prosecutions. I believe that that is a dividend of the high profile of the issue. I believe that it will be a long time before any vessel is boarded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579298",
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      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 579298,
      "EditedText": "It is quite a long time since any vessel was boarded in the area in question anyway, because we have very law-abiding fishermen in our part of the world."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579301",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 579301,
      "EditedText": "So there are no advantages whatsoever?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579305",
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      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 579305,
      "EditedText": "Let me get this right so that I understand your line of argument. Do you recognise the fact that the Scottish Fishermen's Federation and the whole industry are up in arms about the issue, whether you agree with them or not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 579308,
      "EditedText": "The establishment of this Parliament will be of considerable advantage to Scottish fishermen, if I have my way. The proportion of the population involved in fishing is much greater in Scotland than it is in the rest of the United Kingdom."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 579312,
      "EditedText": "I can identify the advantage that the Scottish fishing industry gets from having a Scottish zone and if there is to be a Scottish zone, there has to be a boundary. There is neither advantage nor disadvantage in terms of the location."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 579313,
      "EditedText": "Then why defend it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 579321,
      "EditedText": "With great apologies for taking so long, I invite Irene McGugan to ask a question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 579322,
      "EditedText": "I want to pursue the issue that Mike Rumbles is pressing you on, minister. We have heard Hamish Morrison state the number of organisations, agencies and fishermen he represents. Not one of the people he represents supports the new situation. Can you tell us the name of anyone in the industry who is content with the situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 579326,
      "EditedText": "That is semantics. I asked you to identify anybody in the industry who is content with the new situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 579327,
      "EditedText": "No one has expressed that view. it would be wonderful if we could have even more of the fishing waters, but I see no sensible case for arranging that. The important thing for our fishermen is that they have access to all their historic fishing grounds. Under the principle of relative stability, they will continue to have that access; it is my job to ensure that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 579356,
      "EditedText": "The first point to make is that this is not an international boundary. If I have any say in the matter, it never will be an international boundary. Mercifully, 73 per cent of the people of Scotland voted for parties that want to ensure that we remain part of the United Kingdom.Given that we required a boundary to demarcate a Scottish fishing zone within United Kingdom waters, and within the European Union, it seemed to colleagues in Westminster that a median line was the fairest and most appropriate to use. Mr Lochhead is right: there are other ways of setting boundaries. However, this way seems sensible. I am sorry to bore the committee by repeating myself, but to my mind the most important thing, from the fishermen's point of view, is to ensure that they continue to have access to all their traditional fishing waters, wherever they may be—even if they are off the south coast of England. That is what we intend to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 579358,
      "EditedText": "I was not a member of the UK Administration at the time but, like Mr Lochhead, I have read the Hansard report of the committee, and I understand that using the most common means of establishing boundaries at sea—the median line—was the basis adopted. That is what has been done. It is open to the UK Government to change it if it sees fit, but I have yet to hear any strong grounds for making a change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 579361,
      "EditedText": "If we have come to the logical end of the questioning period, it is my duty to express the gratitude of the committee to Mr Hamish Morrison for giving his submission today and answering questions. It is also a pleasure to thank John Home Robertson and his team for coming along and taking part in the discussion. John has a little more to do—he is involved in the next item on our agenda, so we will not let him escape just yet.As a committee, at this point we must decide how to proceed. I have an idea of how best to do so, but I am keen to hear opinions from the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 579363,
      "EditedText": "Is that an acceptable suggestion?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ID": 17636,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 579371,
      "EditedText": "I accept that point, and my colleague Elliot Morley made that point in the Fisheries Council. The UK negotiating position is that there should be no inhibition against the use of appropriate FIFG schemes to increase vessel safety. However, some borderline cases exist in which something that is done nominally for safety purposes might in fact be directed towards increasing the vessel's catching capacity. We need to keep a close eye on that, not so much from our point of view, but from that of certain other member states."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ID": 17636,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 579377,
      "EditedText": "I am enthusiastic about doing so. Of course, statements to the Parliament have to be dealt with through the Edinburgh equivalent of the usual channels. There are competing bids to make statements and time is limited.I will say, in passing, that two important Fisheries Councils are coming up. The one in November will wrap up the business that was started last month, while the one in December will deal with total allowable catches and other important issues. I hope that it will be possible before then to have a full debate on fisheries in Parliament, so that I can listen to what colleagues from all quarters are saying and take account of that before fixing the UK negotiating position and, indeed, before going to the council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 579382,
      "EditedText": "As Martin Ritchie has been involved in instructing solicitors on this order, he will be in a better position to address any technical issues.The purpose of the order is to support v-notching schemes that are carried out by the fishing industry and other interests. V-notching involves the clipping of a v-shaped notch on to the tail of a mature shellfish. The creature is then returned to the sea to continue the breeding process. It is most common for mature females that are berried—that is, carrying young—to be v-notched and returned to the sea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 579385,
      "EditedText": "You said that the order is tied up with initiatives from Western Isles fishermen. Has there been consultation with fishermen elsewhere and have other representations been received? If so, have any changes been made to the order as a result?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 579389,
      "EditedText": "Where are the lobsters going to be v-notched? How are fishermen to be paid for v-notched lobsters? How are the lobsters to be returned to the place in which they were caught?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 579393,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but where will they be v-notched?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 579394,
      "EditedText": "They will be v-notched on the vessel using a special implement and immediately returned to the sea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 579399,
      "EditedText": "And they get paid on the notch extract? Is that how it happens?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 579400,
      "EditedText": "The compensation element of the Western Isles proposal is not covered by the order. All that the order does is to make it an offence to land a v-notched lobster. I do not have chapter and verse on how those administering the Western Isles scheme will manage the process, but good luck to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 579401,
      "EditedText": "How much is the compensation for each lobster and what is the estimated cost of the scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 579404,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 579406,
      "EditedText": "The Western Isles scheme proposes to v-notch about 10,000 in the first two years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 579407,
      "EditedText": "People have asked how much consultation there has been with various fishing bodies about the order. I understand that there has been extensive consultation over several years and that there is a general acceptance among the fishing fraternity that the compensation is less important than the conservation of the stock. There has been consultation with fishing colleagues in Ireland and on the east coast of the United States and Canada, and there is general support for the conservation measure in all those fishing communities and among our own fishermen.I have noticed an anomaly in the part of the order that deals with where an offence is committed. Paragraph 5 (1)(a) states that a sea fishery officer may exercise powers\"anywhere in relation to any Scottish fishing boat\".That is fine, but paragraph 5 (1)(b) goes on to say\"in any waters adjacent to the United Kingdom and within the Scottish zone in relation to any relevant British fishing boat.\"What happens if the boat is not a British-registered fishing boat?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 579408,
      "EditedText": "We are covered by article 17 of council regulation (EC) 894/97. However, this is a national measure that can be applied to UK vessels only. We cannot apply it, under those terms, to foreign vessels."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 579409,
      "EditedText": "It is important to take the point that foreign vessels would not be fishing within our six-mile limit, which is where the lobster fishery is. We can safely take foreign vessels out of the calculation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Feeley: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 579410,
      "EditedText": "Some deep-water lobster fishing may take place outwith the six-mile limit, but the bulk of such fishing will be within that zone. However, as Martin says, this is a national measure that cannot be applied to foreign vessels."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C579413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 579413,
      "EditedText": "We envisage that such schemes would be operated within the six-mile limit. Foreigners would not be fishing there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 579414,
      "EditedText": "I ask Mr Ritchie to speak to the paper that we have received, unless we have covered everything that he was going to talk about in the previous questioning period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 17637,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 17637,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 579416,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, the committee must decide whether it is content with the proposal. If it is content with the proposal, there is no need to make any recommendations in our report to the Parliament. Is the committee content?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "EU Regulation",
      "HeadingID": 17638,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 17638,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 579418,
      "EditedText": "The committee will now consider item 4, a proposal for a European Council regulation that will open a tariff quota for imports of boneless meat from bovine animals. The Scottish Executive's covering note is attached at the end of the papers from Europe and Westminster. We should note that the Scottish Executive's information says that the regulation has no Scottish interest. Does the committee have any views on that?We have with us Mr John Dowie, who is able to clarify any issues that might arise. Interruption. I thought that Mr Dowie was here to speak to the covering paper, but I was misguided. Do we require any clarification on the item concerning the importation of boneless dried beef?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "EU Regulation",
      "HeadingID": 17638,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 17638,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 579419,
      "EditedText": "Tell us where we can buy viande des Grisons. It would be interesting to try it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 579422,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda was raised in a letter that I received from a colleague in the Scottish Parliament—Mr David Mundell, an MSP for the South of Scotland—which has been copied for committee members. In this letter, David Mundell brings to our attention the issues that were topical last week. We thought that it was appropriate to include the letter, which was the only communication that we had with Mr Mundell, so that members of this committee who wanted to make comments on the contents of the letter, or the issues surrounding it, could do so today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 579423,
      "EditedText": "Mr Mundell has asked me to point out the fact that the agenda is incorrect in saying that the letter is about the French ban on British beef. I think that you will agree, having read the letter, that it is not about a ban, but it raises concerns that have been put to him, and to us all, and he felt that those concerns should be discussed in this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 579425,
      "EditedText": "As Elaine has correctly said, there are huge issues to be addressed, but they are far too complicated for us to examine now. We should note the contents of that letter and move on, as we have a full agenda. I hope that that suggestion has resonance with the other committee members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 579426,
      "EditedText": "Can I be reminded of our time scale for examination of agriculture? The economic state of our farmers is, as everybody knows, so parlous as to be a disaster. This committee should examine that urgently. I know that we have a full agenda, but the situation is so bad. Farm incomes are going to total less than £100 million for the first time. Five years ago, farm incomes totalled £600 million. That is an enormous drop for the rural economy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 579427,
      "EditedText": "We must establish a time scale for that and it would be appropriate for us to discuss that now.On the subject of Mr Mundell's letter, we had reached a point at which it was suggested that we note the contents of the letter. In addition to that, and given that health issues are raised, does the committee think that we should communicate to Mr Mundell that he should approach the Health and Community Care Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 579428,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is giving it too much weight. I am sure that Mr Mundell is very capable of writing to the Health and Community Care Committee without our prompting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 579429,
      "EditedText": "Okay. We will note the contents of Mr Mundell's letter.Alex Fergusson raised the issue of the time scale of our investigation into the state of agriculture. I accept that it is a connected issue. Up to this point, we have looked at things issue by issue. However, Alex has a valid point. Because of the continuing decline in agriculture, it would be appropriate for us to develop a structure for our investigation, giving balanced representation to each sector of the industry. Would it be appropriate for us to consider that for a moment now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 579430,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we need some kind of overall strategy. At the moment, we are considering each area where there is a problem. Effectively, someone else is creating our agenda, and we are not getting an opportunity to consider all the issues of interest right across Scotland. As we have heard, there is a need for a strategic approach. I think that we should discuss that. It is not good enough to say that there is an issue here and an issue there, to spend a day looking at them, and then to put them off because something else comes on to the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 579431,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, we are holding a structured investigation into housing, poverty and unemployment in rural areas. Would it be appropriate for us to develop a similar structure for our investigation into the problems that are facing agriculture in Scotland? Should we ask the clerks to work on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef Exports",
      "HeadingID": 17639,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ID": 17639,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 579435,
      "EditedText": "This is potentially a very big issue. There is a problem that requires immediate attention. If we undertake a very big investigation, we will be beyond the immediate problem and into the effects of the immediate problem, if that turns out to be as bad as we fear it might. If we go into the bigger question, we go into the future of the common agricultural policy. How do we limit our investigation, what parameters will we use and what time scale are we considering?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 579440,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that we have got that sorted out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dowie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 579441,
      "EditedText": "I will not say very much by way of introduction as I want to take questions on the paper that we submitted to you. The transport and planning group in the Scottish Executive development department under Sarah Boyack leads on rural transport issues, but we work closely with colleagues in the rural affairs department. A range of transport measures is directed at and is specific to rural areas. There are measures for lifeline links, particularly to the remote islands and, of course, mainstream programmes such as the roads programme have a bearing on rural areas and other parts of Scotland. Rural issues are diverse and occupy the time of a diverse range of people in the development department. I will be happy to take questions arising from the paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 579443,
      "EditedText": "Are vapour recovery exemptions for rural petrol stations permanent, or is an annual gallonage—litreage nowadays—limit set?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17640,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dowie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 579446,
      "EditedText": "I would not want to commit myself on that as I am not sure. I will clarify that point if that would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 579450,
      "EditedText": "There is an enormous amount of timber on the west coast of Scotland, but further north there are very few rail links. Surely we should be using coastal shipping for that, as we used to in the old days. Would there be any chance of bringing back the tariff rebate scheme? A few years ago, a lot of timber was carried by ship. That timber is now carried by road. The scheme would save an enormous amount of wear and tear on the roads and I am sure that it would pay for itself very quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C579452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 579452,
      "EditedText": "The freight facilities grant is all very well for capital schemes, but not when it comes to running costs—something else is needed. If, for example, 200,000 tonnes of timber, were taken off the west coast, it would save around 7 million or 8 million road miles and would cost about £2 million. That does not seem much in terms of the damage that is being done to the roads."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dowie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 579453,
      "EditedText": "The Executive hopes that if we can pump-prime the initial capital investment, we will be able to facilitate commercially viable transfer from the roads to coastal shipping. That is what happens with the freight facilities grant on the rail network—once the equipment is installed, moving freight by rail becomes commercially viable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dowie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 579459,
      "EditedText": "I recognise the problem generally and the problem with maintenance at a local authority level. Local authorities are provided with block funding for their capital requirements across the range of local authority functions. They must decide what to prioritise out of the competing demands of education, housing, roads and so on. The Executive recognises that, in recent years, transport has been losing out in that process of prioritisation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.688762+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 579466,
      "EditedText": "Are there any further questions? It has been pointed out to me that many of the questions have revolved around freight transport in rural areas. Do members think that we should be paying particular attention to that issue? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 579467,
      "EditedText": "We will note that and include it in our continuing investigation.It has been drawn to my attention that the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee is currently carrying out an inquiry into the issue of differential petrol prices. It has been suggested that two members of the Rural Affairs Committee could be appointed as reporters to participate in that discussion. Are there any suggestions as to which members might be appropriate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Areas (Transport)",
      "HeadingID": 17640,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ID": 17640,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 579479,
      "EditedText": "Only from an Opposition point of view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 527.0,
      "ContributionID": 579482,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we should go forward. I find myself at a disadvantage—I do not know about other people—because my first chance to read the papers was this morning. There is a lot here on which I would like to spend more time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 579484,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 579485,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise the matter of the amount of time that people are getting to consider papers—we may discuss that later. On another issue, as economic development in Scotland is a matter for the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, that committee's work will have an impact on this committee's investigations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 579488,
      "EditedText": "We have to find out whether standing orders will allow us to return to an agenda item for further discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17641,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 579489,
      "EditedText": "My reading of the relevant standing order might not be the only interpretation of the rules of the Parliament; that is for members to decide. Rule 11.8.1 of the standing orders says:\"The convener of a committee or sub-committee shall determine the time at which members shall take a decision on any item of business.\"The committee agreed earlier to continue consideration of the matter at a future meeting. Within the terms of the standing order, the committee could, if it wanted, take that decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 579490,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee want to progress the matter at this point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 579492,
      "EditedText": "I am of a like mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 579493,
      "EditedText": "The committee has decided to progress the matter now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 579498,
      "EditedText": "It is appropriate that we recognise that any change in the fishery boundary is a matter for the Westminster Parliament. I do not endorse Mike's view that we should express our support for the proposed amending legislation. We should note that it is a matter for Westminster and the answers that we have received today. We could, as the convener suggests, also remind Parliament that it is free to discuss the issue further. We should leave it at that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.704388+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 579296,
      "EditedText": "Regardless of the hypothetical questions that have been raised, the boundary has now been in place for more than six months. What losses has the industry sustained in that period because of the boundary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:46.5461479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 579290,
      "EditedText": "Does the minister accept that ministers can make mistakes in connection with this matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:31.1413113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits<br />(Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17635,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17635,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 579355,
      "EditedText": "We are discussing the location of the boundary rather than the need for a boundary, so we have to ask the minister about the conventions that were used to establish the location of the boundary. Henry McLeish in the House of Commons, and other UK and Scottish ministers, said that international conventions were used to draw up the boundary.However, as the committee will be aware, at least one political party commissioned a legal opinion, and Dr Iain Scobbie of Glasgow University, who is an expert on these matters, said that \"the justifications offered for the choice of this line have relied on international law. Even a cursory examination of that law clearly undermines these justifications.\"Furthermore, Alan Perry of D J Freeman in London—another lawyer, who is internationally renowned and has 25 years' experience in these matters—entered the debate of his own volition by saying that the use of international conventions to defend the new location was \"disingenuous in the extreme\".Finally, Professor James Crawford of Cambridge University—again, an internationally renowned expert on these matters of federal and international law—mentioned the dispute of his own volition during a lecture at Edinburgh University last week. He said that the critics of the boundary adhering to international conventions had a fair point and that the boundary was untenable.The ministers who drew up the boundary said that they did so adhering to international conventions, yet independent legal experts are lining up to say that those conventions are flawed and that that defence of the boundary is flawed. Is not the minister concerned that the ministers got it wrong?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:31.1413113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Council",
      "HeadingID": 17636,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ID": 17636,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 579368,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the minister's commitment to regionalisation of the advisory committee structure and the structure of our committees. I am sure that this committee will support that and wish the minister well with his efforts.I have two brief questions. First, what is the source of the figure of 10,000 tonnes that was cited in connection with herring imports? Secondly, does the minister anticipate any measures that will allow the Scottish industry to take advantage of fleet renewal and modernisation programmes? Will he support such measures, and Scottish fishermen getting access to EU funds, given that state aid will be required for that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:31.1413113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 579496,
      "EditedText": "Given the committee's interest in the issue and the number of questions that we put to the minister and Hamish Morrison, it would surely be appropriate for this committee to make several recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:31.1413113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 3225
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17641,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 17641,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 570.0,
      "ContributionID": 579503,
      "EditedText": "I was relaxed about the fact that we were discussing this issue again, because I thought that we would be discussing the way forward, as opposed to taking an immediate decision. We had an excellent report on amnesic shellfish poisoning, which reflected the fact that we had heard evidence from other groups on other days. Why cannot we follow a similar path for this issue, at least to consider the options? We can make recommendations at a future meeting. We need a report and we need to consider our options."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:31.1413113+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 520489,
      "EditedText": "The petition calls on the First Minister\"to release for scrutiny the details\".Is this not information that we should be able to obtain either from the First Minister or from the Minister for Transport and the Environment rather than from the Transport and the Environment Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 520500,
      "EditedText": "That is really why I raised the question. The recommendation to the committee said that the first port of call is not the minister. I do not see why that should be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 520513,
      "EditedText": "That would be diplomatic.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 520539,
      "EditedText": "We should send it to them all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 520542,
      "EditedText": "I gave notice earlier that, although I am no longer a practising lawyer, it would be inappropriate for me to take part in this debate as it involves a certain dissatisfaction with the legal profession. I have no interests to declare in this matter, but it would be useful to the committee if I did not take part."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 520589,
      "EditedText": "A people's day. Are we having it as a public holiday, at long last?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 520607,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 520623,
      "EditedText": "I have two points. First, a petitioner who is partially sighted or has sight difficulties should be able to nominate someone else to submit his or her petition. I do not see why we cannot accept petitions in Braille.Furthermore, the paper does not say that the petitions must be in English. I cannot remember the exact rule, but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 520627,
      "EditedText": "But people do not read the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 520629,
      "EditedText": "That would be appropriate. Will the document form the guideline sheet for the proper form of public petitions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 520641,
      "EditedText": "We could say that petitions must be typewritten as handwritten documents present certain difficulties for the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ID": 14199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 520647,
      "EditedText": "The Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 14195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 14195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John McAllion): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 520444,
      "EditedText": "I welcome everyone to the fourth meeting of the Public Petitions Committee. I would like to extend a special welcome to Allan Wilson, who is not a member of the committee, but is here to speak in support of petition 22 from the Island of Cumbrae Tourist Association. As a member of the Scottish Parliament he is fully entitled to attend the meeting and discuss any petition on today's agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 520447,
      "EditedText": "It is worth noting that Mr Frank submitted two petitions at a very early stage in the life of the committee. At that time, there was some sympathy for the fact that one petition was being rejected—members felt that we should perhaps give the other petition further consideration. I do not think that that will weigh as heavily with the committee in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 520449,
      "EditedText": "The second petition is from Mr Timothy Alexander of Greenan and relates to his claim to the Earldom of Stirling and other related titles. Since the papers were issued to members and the petition was considered, we have received legal advice. Whether the subject matter of the petition is reserved is not clear-cut; it cannot be said to be a straightforward reserved matter.As members will know, the petitioner has now amended his petition. He has withdrawn his request for a parliamentary inquiry; he now requests that the Parliament congratulates him and acknowledges his efforts to preserve the titles in question.We can agree that the Parliament could do that, even if the subject matter of the petition is reserved, and that this petition is admissible. However, we need to decide what to do with it. The Parliament should not devote resources to this sort of claim. As I said before, parliamentary time is short and I see no need for such an item of business to be placed on the agenda of a meeting of the Parliament, particularly in view of the fact that Mr Alexander has already taken this matter up with the Scotland Office. He mentioned that he is adopting a more conciliatory approach in his dealings with that office and I hope that that approach is more successful for him. I think that it would be best if we asked the clerk to write to him along those lines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 520451,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure whether he is entitled to call himself right honourable—I think that that is part of his claim. However, his claim, which is a matter for the Scotland Office, has not been decided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 520455,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that anything I say from the chair will support Mr Alexander's claim to be called right honourable. I was just trying to be polite. The next petition is from Mr Jimmy Oswald and concerns the decline of the capercaillie in Scotland. The petition calls for urgent action to reverse that decline. Members will see that the petition is supported by Mike Rumbles, MSP, who was present when it was submitted. Mr Oswald calls for action under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and the European directive on wild birds. Initially, it was suggested that the petition should be passed to both the Transport and the Environment Committee and the Rural Affairs Committee. However, the clerk has since established that it should go to the Transport and Environment Committee only."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 520458,
      "EditedText": "Can you remind me where we sent the petition on pigeons and raptors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 520463,
      "EditedText": "No, it will go only to the Transport and the Environment Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 520465,
      "EditedText": "I believe that we are responding to advice that comes direct from the committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 520474,
      "EditedText": "Our clerk has already spoken to the clerk of the Transport and the Environment Committee. It will examine the petitions and refer the matter to the Executive.Petition 20 is from Mr Steve Ratcliffe calling for a public examination into lobbying in the Scottish Parliament. Although the petitioner has already been informed of action that has been taken by the Standards Committee on the issue of lobbying, the clerk should write back to the petitioner following the conclusion of the committee's considerations. I have not seen those conclusions myself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 520478,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 520485,
      "EditedText": "I have to say that concessionary fares are at the top of the Transport and the Environment Committee's agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C520487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 520487,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener, for giving me this opportunity. With your indulgence, I would like briefly to outline why we are here and why the petition is before the committee.The prime mover behind the petition is the local GP, Dr Jim Bryson, who happens also to be the vice chairman of the Island of Cumbrae Tourist Association. In the wake of the Scottish parliamentary elections earlier this year, Dr Bryson wrote to the Scottish Executive about fare structures in the ferry service in general. Inter alia, he asked for the information that is the subject of this petition.When the Scottish Executive department of transport and the environment failed to respond adequately with the said information, Dr Bryson contacted me. I agreed to write to the minister on his behalf, which I did around July this year. On 25 August, I received a response from the Scottish Executive on that and other related matters, which failed to release the information that had been sought. On 28 September, I received an answer to a question that I had lodged asking the Scottish Executive \"whether it will publish a route by route breakdown of revenue and expenditure for Caledonian Macbrayne's upper Clyde ferry services, including the Largs to Cumbrae slip.\"—Official Report, Written Answers, 28 September 1999, Vol 2, p 151.Between my writing and the Executive's replying, a not dissimilar question was posed by one of our colleagues, Duncan Hamilton, a member for the Highlands and Islands. He asked the Scottish Executive \"what plans it has to produce a route by route analysis of each ferry route under the operation of Caledonian MacBrayne.\"The Executive answered:\"The Annual Report and Accounts of Caledonian MacBrayne Ltd provide results analysed by area of operation. There are no plans to provide this information on a route by route basis.\"—Official Report, Written Answers, 11 August 1999; Vol 1, p 199.In the time-honoured fashion, the response to my question referred me to that reply.Neither I nor the constituents I am here to represent were satisfied with that answer. We met and agreed that we would set up a petition. As members can see, 1,888 signatures were collected in less than a week. That demonstrates the strength of feeling on the island, whose total population is only 1,420. Something like 500 signatures were collected in 48 hours. There is strong local feeling on this issue.My primary interest is in open government and informed debate. We can have neither if the figures for revenue and expenditure for the Largs to Cumbrae route are concealed within the overall net operating deficit of £3.2 million for Caledonian MacBrayne's upper Clyde services.Whether the facts sustain Dr Bryson's argument that CalMac makes a considerable profit and has the scope to reduce fares or, crucially, improve services, or CalMac's counter-claim that the system relates fares more accurately to the cost of providing services is, I believe, a matter of public interest. It is of particular interest to my constituents. The island's economy is very fragile and could be damaged irreparably by the wrong decision in these matters. The figures ought to be in the public domain, given the public subsidy involved, so that the public debate can be informed and not distorted by claim and counter-claim about the profitability or otherwise of the route.If we wish to compare the cost, effectiveness or efficiency of one hospital with those of another, or even the cost of operating services within hospitals, that information is in the public domain. If we wish to make comparisons between further education colleges or local authorities, the information is in the public domain. Crucially, if we wish to compare the level of public subsidy in one bus route to that in another, the information is in the public domain. I see no good reason for the information for individual ferry routes not, similarly, being in the public domain. I support the petition and commend it to you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 520494,
      "EditedText": "It has been suggested that we could pass the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee with a strong recommendation from this committee that the matter be taken up with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 520497,
      "EditedText": "So we should inform that committee, but send the petition to the Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 520499,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C520505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 520505,
      "EditedText": "I agree, convener. Ultimately, it will be a matter for the Executive to determine, but having the support of this committee and the Transport and the Environment Committee would help to persuade the Executive that the information ought properly to be in the public domain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 520511,
      "EditedText": "If we want to identify the particular economic and social issues that are connected with the peripherality of certain areas, we must put this petition through the committee that is considering concessionary fares throughout Scotland. It would be pertinent to the Transport and the Environment Committee's current programme. Although we are dealing only with concessionary bus fares, our work has made it clear that we must also take account of rail concession schemes, such as those run by Fife Council. To do that in tandem with the approach to the Executive would be helpful. I would certainly speak up in support of the people of Cumbrae so that they can get the information they require to take any further steps that may be necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 520512,
      "EditedText": "We can do both things. We can refer the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee with the strong recommendation that it take the matter up with the Executive. We can also write to the Executive indicating that we have done that and that we fully support the petition, and asking it to give us a response. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 520515,
      "EditedText": "Although they are not in my constituency, I know those caves. When I was the roads and transportation spokesperson on Fife Council, I worked with the Wemyss ancient caves group. I visited the group and have seen the drawings in the caves. Through the work with the council, it has become apparent that Fife Council, like many councils, has had minimal financial support from previous Administrations to undertake special actions to help such causes. The matter now needs to be addressed by the Scottish Executive. The Executive must decide whether those ancient drawings are worth preserving for the nation. If they are worth preserving, the Executive must provide financial support. Fife Council does not have a budget for that sort of work because the problem comes under the heading of coastal erosion. There is little money in any council's budget to cope with coastal erosion, so I think that the petition should be forwarded to the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 520516,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that it should go to the Scottish Executive instead of Fife Council?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 520517,
      "EditedText": "It has already been the subject of extensive debate in Fife Council. I used to be the senior vice chair of the strategic development committee, and we discussed the matter on a number of occasions. Fife Council has spent all the resources it possibly can. I know that because I was involved as recently as June of this year, and have spoken to officials and to community volunteers who are trying to preserve the cave drawings. There have been articles in The Scotsman and in other newspapers and Tam Dalyell has telephoned me about it. People are very keen to preserve the ancient drawings. Unless we sit up and take notice of the problem, the drawings will simply disappear, because coastal erosion in Fife is the worst in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 520520,
      "EditedText": "There is no point sending the petition back to Fife Council. It would just respond that it had no money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 520521,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 520527,
      "EditedText": "They have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 520532,
      "EditedText": "We are at the start of this process and it might well be that we should pass the petition on to Fife Council and Historic Scotland and ask them to comment on it so that those comments are on the public record of this Parliament's proceedings. At that stage, if we are not satisfied, we could refer the petition to the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 520546,
      "EditedText": "Yes, the writing was difficult to read."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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      "ID": 14196,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 520547,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps it came out of the copier that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 520550,
      "EditedText": "I think that that would be helpful. Is everyone agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 520561,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has a record of the dates when the petitions were submitted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 520570,
      "EditedText": "I pick up Pauline's point. Perhaps she feels, as I do, that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee dealt quickly with the issue of the Carbeth hutters. However, if a petition takes three months to be dealt with by a committee, is it within the remit of this committee to write to that committee? I think that that was what Pauline meant. We might say to that committee, \"We passed this matter to you on such and such a date, but you have taken four or five months to respond.\" Is it within the remit of this committee to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 520571,
      "EditedText": "We can do what we want, but the response that we receive from the committees is critical. The matter was raised at the conveners liaison group, and there was resistance to the idea that this committee should lay down a timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 520575,
      "EditedText": "The clerk reminds me that, even today, if committee members are unhappy about the Stracathro situation, for example, we can write to the Health and Community Care Committee and say that that committee must consider the case sooner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 520585,
      "EditedText": "That concludes discussion of that item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 520588,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are on holiday on that day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14198,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 520590,
      "EditedText": "I do not know; I cannot remember."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14198,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 520597,
      "EditedText": "I was going to comment, but I did not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 520602,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is the idea—that a draft will come back to the committee and that no documents will go out until the committee has approved them. We will do that at the next meeting on 16 November. The idea of the flyer is to make the information more colourful and user-friendly. The parliamentary information fact sheet will be a more serious document. The flyer is intended to grab and excite public attention.A couple of dates have been suggested for the launch: Tuesday 23 November or Wednesday 24 November. The morning of Wednesday 24 November is no use for me, because that is when the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector  Committee meets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 520609,
      "EditedText": "The launch will have to be on a Tuesday afternoon, because that is when the Public Petitions Committee tends to meet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 520610,
      "EditedText": "Could not the launch take place directly after the Tuesday afternoon meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 520614,
      "EditedText": "On 23 November—Tuesday afternoon?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 520615,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The same time that we come here, I would think."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 520619,
      "EditedText": "We can discuss that at our meeting on 16 November. Do we agree on that date?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Steve Farrell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 520621,
      "EditedText": "At a previous meeting, the committee discussed the fact that the standing orders require the committee to decide the proper form of petitions and that any petition that did not conform to the proper designation would be ruled inadmissible. The committee felt that that might be restrictive and not in keeping with its aims. The clerks agreed to prepare the paper that is now before the committee. The paper simplifies the criteria for the proper form of petitions to the following: petitions must be typewritten on A4 paper and signed by the petitioner. Those criteria would make admissible the majority of petitions that are properly presented and are in a form that can be easily understood by members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 520622,
      "EditedText": "I repeat: the criteria for public petitions are that petitions must be typewritten in blue or black ink and signed by the petitioner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Steve Farrell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 520626,
      "EditedText": "The document will be in addition to the standing orders, which cover the point that petitions must be in English."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520633",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 520633,
      "EditedText": "We should make it clear that people can submit petitions in Braille. There should be no barrier in that respect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 520635,
      "EditedText": "Why cannot handwritten petitions be submitted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ID": 14199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 520652,
      "EditedText": "The next conveners liaison group is this afternoon, and I will report back if there is anything further on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 520654,
      "EditedText": "We agreed that the conclusion of the Standards Committee's investigation into lobbying should be passed to the petitioner, along with advice. There is apparently a very good article in Holyrood magazine that deals with the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 520655,
      "EditedText": "For the record, it should be made clear that there was never any allegation of cash for access. The petitioner is mistaken about that. It is important for the Parliament to say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 520560,
      "EditedText": "We all received that e-mail. Do we have dates for when the petitions were submitted? I might lose track of developments with the petitions as time passes. It would make sense to have an idea of the time scale involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520587",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
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      "ID": 1756,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 520587,
      "EditedText": "I was going to suggest St. Andrew's day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520591",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 520591,
      "EditedText": "Do we have a public petition about that, John?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 520601,
      "EditedText": "BT had a dummy public petition that I saw somewhere—perhaps at a party conference. People were interested in it. We are a little behind the times. I do not blame anyone for this, but many people have asked me how to submit petitions and I keep saying that we will produce something—so we must. I would ask that it be colourful. The Parliament spends a fortune on glossy presentation—I know that I am making a political point—but we should have something colourful that does not look too utilitarian. The document should give little examples and be exciting, with the web address on it and so on. Will we be able to look at a draft before it goes out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 520613,
      "EditedText": "People will be into Christmas stuff by then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 520631,
      "EditedText": "Okay. It is just that people are frightened by standing orders and do not read them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 520639,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps that can be included in the paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520469",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1756,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 520469,
      "EditedText": "It is open to the Transport and the Environment Committee to remit the petition to the Rural Affairs Committee, should it feel that additional views are necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520471",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 520471,
      "EditedText": "Will we get a report about the petition back from the Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 520475,
      "EditedText": "We are waiting for the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 520479,
      "EditedText": "I do not mean to be picky, but is that part of our role? Although I am happy to go along with Helen's suggestion, I thought that we simply decided on the competence of the Parliament to act on petitions and to which committee a petition would be referred, rather than responded ourselves. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520507",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 520507,
      "EditedText": "At the same time, we should also advise the responsible minister that that is what we have done."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520526",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 520526,
      "EditedText": "Could we first confirm with the petitioners whether they have been up those avenues already?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 520528,
      "EditedText": "Are you sure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 520535,
      "EditedText": "Why cannot we ask Sarah Boyack at the same time? We do not have to wait for ever."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 14195,
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:06"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 520445,
      "EditedText": "The first petition to consider is petition 6, from Mr Maurice Frank, which was returned to us by the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. There was an exchange of letters between the convener of that committee, Roseanna Cunningham, and me, in which she made it clear that, in the opinion of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, the petition should not have been passed on because the committee could do nothing to assist the petitioner. We need to make a judgment call on this issue, not only for this petition, but for future petitions. We have to be careful about passing on petitions to other committees because, as everyone knows, the committee system is under great pressure. One of the primary roles of the Public Petitions Committee is to ensure that other committees are not put under undue pressure by petitions that should not have been passed on. In future, we should be aware that we should deal with some petitions and say that no further action is required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 520450,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of points—one of which is really a question. He calls himself the right honourable the Earl of Stirling. Does he have the right to do that? I was under the impression that he would have to be a privy councillor before he could call himself that. If he does not have that right, perhaps we should, in the nicest possible way, draw that to his attention, as I understand that the title has a very special status. I read in the notes that \"Mr Alexander has also telephoned at least one member\".He has certainly telephoned my office and tried to speak to me. I am afraid that I was not available at the time, so he was not able to speak to me, although he spoke to a member of my staff. I do not know whether he tried to contact other members. Perhaps he is a distant relation of mine, as my middle name is Stirling. Perhaps I, too, have a claim to this earldom."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 520452,
      "EditedText": "I was the member that Mr Alexander managed to get hold of. I must say that I admire his tenacity, but there was no way I could answer some of the questions he raised with me on the telephone as this committee does not deal with those issues. I reported to Mr Farrell that Mr Alexander had contacted me and had asked me to support the petition. I told him that his petition would come before the committee and that we would discuss it. However, I agree with the convener's proposal, which is the best way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 520453,
      "EditedText": "He also managed to get through to me. While I have a certain amount of sympathy with the right honourable Timothy Alexander, the issue that he raises is not the business of the Parliament and the Parliament does not have time to deal with such issues. So, are we agreed that the clerk—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 520459,
      "EditedText": "That petition is on the agenda and we will come to it later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 520461,
      "EditedText": "I think so. The Transport and the Environment Committee is awaiting some research data before it disposes of the Scottish Homing Union's petition. Mr Oswald's petition will go to that committee as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 520464,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that this matter could be tied up with the raptor-pigeon petition. If we sent that petition to two committees, I do not see the point in not sending this petition to two committees, as they are linked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 520467,
      "EditedText": "We have spoken to both committees and they agreed that this is how Mr Oswald's petition should be handled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 520468,
      "EditedText": "All right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 520473,
      "EditedText": "We might want to pass these petitions to the Executive. As the First Minister gave dispensation to the Skye bridge, perhaps the Executive might tell us its thinking on the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 520480,
      "EditedText": "The Standards Committee will provide the official view of the Parliament. Our response would just be for Mr Ratcliffe's information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 520482,
      "EditedText": "The Holyrood article does not concern policy; it is just an individual's view of the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520483",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 520483,
      "EditedText": "The next petition is petition 21 from Penicuik and District Community Council about the inadequacy of current concessionary bus fare schemes, which are based on old local authorities instead of on a national concessionary scheme. The recommendation is that the petition should be passed to the Transport and the Environment Committee, but that is perhaps qualified by the suggestion that the subject committee might pass the petition to the Scottish Executive soon after consideration. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 520484,
      "EditedText": "The previous petition and this petition summarise the committee's role. Both deal with very relevant subjects, particularly the transport petition that will go before the Executive. It is high time that we had an integrated concessionary transport scheme anyway. Perhaps I am plugging that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 520486,
      "EditedText": "That is very timely.The next petition is from the Island of Cumbrae Tourist Association. We have with us Allan Wilson, who wishes to introduce the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 520490,
      "EditedText": "It is up to the committee. We can choose whether to send this petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee or to the Executive, which we would ask to respond directly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 520492,
      "EditedText": "Helen, you are a member of the Transport and the Environment Committee. Do you have any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 520493,
      "EditedText": "It would be worthwhile passing it to the Transport and the Environment Committee because we are considering concessionary fares at the moment. Although our inquiry is on bus fares, we have already mentioned concessionary rail fares, so the petition would at least be useful for information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 520495,
      "EditedText": "The Executive has, or should have, that information now. The petition is an expression of dissatisfaction with the presentation of information held by and available to the Scottish Executive and CalMac and there is no need for a separate step."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 520496,
      "EditedText": "I was not suggesting that the petition should not go to the Scottish Executive, but I feel that it would be useful for the Transport and the Environment Committee to have a copy of it for information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 520504,
      "EditedText": "The petitioners would rather have both committees behind them. Sandra is right about that. What is your view, Allan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 520506,
      "EditedText": "Shall we pass this petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee with a recommendation that it support it and take the matter up with the Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 520508,
      "EditedText": "We can certainly do that as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 520509,
      "EditedText": "I have some reservations about that. I would like this petition to go right to the Executive. If the Executive does not give the response that the committee expects, we can return it to the Executive and pursue the matter until we do get a reasonable answer. I can live with the fact that we will pass a copy to the Transport and the Environment Committee, but if we really believe in an open Parliament, we have good reason to pass the petition direct to the Executive and to expect an answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 520518,
      "EditedText": "Have the three possible solutions that are outlined in the petition already been considered by Fife Council?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 520522,
      "EditedText": "If that is the case, I am happy to pass the petition to the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 520523,
      "EditedText": "Have Historic Scotland, Scottish Natural Heritage or any other such bodies been contacted? If they have not, is it within the remit of this committee to send the petition on to them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 520524,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy if it were to go to them as well as to the Scottish Executive. A decision has to be made about whether this cause will be supported. The caves are a monument for Scotland, not just for Fife. If they are to be preserved, Scotland has a duty to do that, and the matter should not just be left on Fife Council's doorstep. I support Phil's helpful suggestion. The petition should be sent to the Executive and to the agencies he mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 520525,
      "EditedText": "The clerk tells me that Historic Scotland, as an executive agency, has direct responsibility for the matter. Perhaps that is where we should refer the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 520536,
      "EditedText": "The minister would probably just write to us saying that the issue is the responsibility of Historic Scotland. Let us hear what Historic Scotland has to say and then refer that to the minister, although we could refer the petition to the minister and ask her to refer it to Historic Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 520540,
      "EditedText": "Okay—we will send it to the minister, to Fife Council and to Historic Scotland.We will move on to petition 24, which is from the National Farmers Union of Scotland. It calls on the Parliament to oppose the introduction of a pesticide tax, on the basis that in Scotland it would\"depress further the present low returns from agriculture\".Taxation is reserved to Westminster, but the clerk has been in touch with the Rural Affairs Committee, which would like to see this petition. I suggest that we refer the petition to it.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 520541,
      "EditedText": "Petition 25 from Major (Hon) Ian G McClure is about a long-running dispute that he has been having with his former employers, George Heriot's School in Edinburgh. Members will have read the papers on this and seen that the case was referred to the Central Office of the Industrial Tribunals (Scotland) in 1993. The hearing was adjourned because a settlement was agreed between Mr McClure and his former employers.The claim has been made again by Mr McClure and he now wants the Scottish Parliament to intervene in the dispute. We should not get involved in individual cases such as this in the way suggested by Mr McClure. We should, through the clerk, recommend to him that he approach the Central Office of the Industrial Tribunals and express his concerns in that quarter, because it is its responsibility to deal with such cases.In respect of individual cases that have been through legal or court proceedings—industrial tribunals, appeals procedures and the like—the Parliament should not be able to overturn decisions even if it wanted to. This committee could, however, consider proposals that would change laws, rules or procedures when that was justified and appropriate and in the interests of the Scottish people. We cannot rule on an individual case where compensation is being asked for. That is a matter for tribunals. If, however, the procedures of such tribunals need to be changed, that is a matter for us and for the Parliament.What are the views of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 520543,
      "EditedText": "I certainly support your view, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 520544,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that Mr McClure made his claim through the Central Office of the Industrial Tribunals; it has been settled, but not to his satisfaction. I think that he is asking the Parliament to become involved in overturning a decision of the industrial tribunals. That is not our role. Our role is to amend procedures if they are against the interests of the Scottish people, but we cannot make judgments in individual cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 520552,
      "EditedText": "It is in the correspondence that Malcolm Chisholm has been involved in this case as an MP. Of course, he is still an MP and an MSP at the same time. We should certainly copy the letter to him.Petition 26 is the last one for us to consider; it is  from the Bridge of Allan Public Interests Association. It is about the way in which local government deals with petitions from members of the public. The suggestion is that we pass it on to the Local Government Committee. Research staff have produced a paper that confirms that there is no general statutory framework governing the handling of public petitions by local authorities, which varies from council to council. The clerk has the paper if anyone wants to see it.As part of their response to the McIntosh commission's report, \"Local Government and the Scottish Parliament\", local authorities have been considering the access and involvement of communities in the decision-making process. I therefore think that the petition is timely and should be referred to the Local Government Committee for its consideration.The president of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, Councillor Norman Murray, invited all the conveners of committees to speak to him. He stressed that local authorities were looking to follow the example of the Scottish Parliament, and to have the equivalent of this committee to deal with petitions coherently across the nation. He thought that that was a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 520555,
      "EditedText": "It might also be worth referring the petition to the leaders of each of the political parties in Stirling Council. It would be useful if the clerk could flag it up to those leaders that we consider it desirable that councils should be able to deal with petitions.When I was a member of Fife Council, it was not unusual to call people in to address us. That was a useful way for the public to influence councillors' views.It would be useful to send a copy of the petition to COSLA as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 520556,
      "EditedText": "The clerk's shoulders are drooping further with every word you say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 520557,
      "EditedText": "I like to make people work really hard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 520558,
      "EditedText": "It is important that everyone understands that this is a live issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 520559,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 is the paper dealing with the progress of petitions that have been considered by the committee.I do not know whether anyone noticed the note about the petition from the Carbeth Hutters Association, which called for legislation to provide security of tenure and rights of access for those who own property built on leased land. Robin Harper sent an e-mail to say that a third hut in Carbeth had been set on fire."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 520563,
      "EditedText": "While we are talking about trying to track how long it takes to deal with petitions, I would like to raise a point about petition 13, from the Stracathro staff action committee. When was that petition submitted? The Health and Community Care Committee will consider it on 24 November, which seems rather a long time after we referred it to that committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 520564,
      "EditedText": "The date is not available at the moment. There has not yet been a report on the Tayside review of acute services, which is relevant to the Stracathro case. I do not think that the report will be out by 24 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 520569,
      "EditedText": "We are not trying to resolve anything locally. We are simply saying that, if a petition is submitted, it must be dealt with by the appropriate committee. That committee must consider whether the matter is to be determined locally or by the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 520573,
      "EditedText": "At that meeting, it was eventually decided that committees would not agree to a two or three-month turnround for petitions that were referred to them, but that the clerks of the individual committees would consult each other, to ensure that a response was given within a reasonable time. It is for us to judge what is unreasonable. That is the purpose of this part of the agenda. If we have information about how long a petition has been lying on the table, receiving no response, we can take up the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 520574,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. I just wondered whether that was in our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 520581,
      "EditedText": "The Health and Community Care Committee will have contacted them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 520592,
      "EditedText": "Parliament is closed on 30 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 520594,
      "EditedText": "We could still have the launch on that day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 520596,
      "EditedText": "No, I was asked to comment; I did not send out a press release."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 520598,
      "EditedText": "I would not send out a press release without the authority of the committee. We are still dealing with the launch. The guidance note, which we will look at next, will be in the form of a Parliament information fact sheet—not the most exciting-looking document that you will ever come across. In addition to that, the clerk proposes that we produce a flyer that will give basic information and point those who are interested in the direction of the information sheet, which will provide more guidance. The flyer could be circulated to libraries and citizens advice bureaux and will be relatively inexpensive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 520606,
      "EditedText": "So Tuesday mornings are out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520611",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 520611,
      "EditedText": "We cannot do it on 16 November because we have not agreed the papers, and the next meeting is not until 14 December. I suggest a Tuesday afternoon between those two dates, which would be either 23 November or 7 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520616",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 520616,
      "EditedText": "Just for a launch?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520620",
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    },
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 520620,
      "EditedText": "The other item that we have to agree is the document on the proper form of public petitions. Steve will introduce the document."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C520624",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Steve Farrell: ",
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      "ContributionID": 520624,
      "EditedText": "The standing orders require that petitions must be in English."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C520628",
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      "ContributionID": 520628,
      "EditedText": "We could include the suggestion that we would be happy to make special arrangements for partially sighted people and people with other difficulties."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C520632",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Steve Farrell: ",
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      "ContributionID": 520632,
      "EditedText": "The public guidance will contain all relevant information and will be easy to follow."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520634",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 520634,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the fact that we are making it as easy as possible for people to access the committee; I thank the clerks for their work."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520637",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 520637,
      "EditedText": "Even in this day and age, some people still do not have access to typewriters."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C520638",
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      "EditedText": "The danger is that if we cannot understand the petition, the petitioner's case might not be put across in the best way."
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  },
  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Steve Farrell: ",
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      "EditedText": "We could certainly give reasons for not accepting handwritten petitions."
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  {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:08."
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 520448,
      "EditedText": "Is it agreed that the clerks should write to the petitioner, explaining that the European Court of Human Rights relates to international relations and is therefore a reserved matter, and that neither our committee nor the Justice and Home Affairs Committee want to take a view on the opinions that he has expressed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 520454,
      "EditedText": "Convener, you just used the term \"right honourable\". I go along with Helen's comments. I have written to the Canadian embassy to ask whether he has the right to claim any of the titles that he has claimed. However, I do not think that this committee should legitimise that use of the term. That reference cannot be struck from the report, but it could be changed or rectified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 520456,
      "EditedText": "I support the petition and I agree with the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 520457,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that we should pass this petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 520460,
      "EditedText": "Will this petition go to the same committee as that petition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 520462,
      "EditedText": "Will Mr Oswald's petition go to both committees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Steve Farrell (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 520466,
      "EditedText": "I have spoken to the clerks involved and I will raise the matter with them again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 520470,
      "EditedText": "Petitions 18 and 19 come from the No Alignment Action Group and the residents of Pentland Residential Mobile Homes Park. They deal with Midlothian Council's proposals for a new A701 dual carriageway in Midlothian and the impact of the road on traffic and wildlife. They also ask for an inquiry into the proposed re-routing of the road through Clippens landfill site in Loanhead, Midlothian. This is a serious issue and it should be referred to the Transport and the Environment Committee, unless any member has other views. Is that agreed?Sorry, I am wrong. The petition will be passed to the Executive, as it will deal with the matter before the next meeting of the Transport and the Environment Committee. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 520472,
      "EditedText": "Yes.I have missed out a petition, which is probably why I am getting mixed up. Petition 17 is from Western Isles Council and petition 27 is from Skye and Kyle Against Tolls. Both are asking for concessions and discounting options for Western Isles residents on tolls charged on the Skye bridge. It is recommended that the petitions should be passed to the Transport and the Environment Committee for its consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 520476,
      "EditedText": "Unless any member disagrees, I think that the Standards Committee should respond to this petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 520477,
      "EditedText": "There was quite a good article in Holyrood magazine that distinguishes the different roles of lobbyists. Perhaps the clerk could send that to Mr Ratcliffe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 520488,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Are there any questions or comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 520491,
      "EditedText": "Without a doubt, the petition should go to the Executive, as it names Donald Dewar. This is a question that has come up in the past. Clarity and openness are all important in this Parliament. It seems to me that Allan has made a pretty good case and that the petitioners are to be congratulated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 520498,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 520501,
      "EditedText": "My only worry is that both Allan Wilson and Duncan Hamilton have already lodged written and oral questions to the Executive and have been given bland answers. If the matter were debated by the Transport and the Environment Committee, that might put more weight behind it before it is passed to the Executive. I am concerned that if it goes to the Executive now, the same answer might be given again and the petition would have to be resubmitted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 520502,
      "EditedText": "It strikes me that having the support of this committee and the Transport and the Environment Committee would help the petition rather than hinder it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 520503,
      "EditedText": "I think that you are right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 520510,
      "EditedText": "The point of passing the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee is that it deals with a policy area for which that committee is responsible. Coming from that committee, it will carry more weight than it would if it came directly from the Public Petitions Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 520514,
      "EditedText": "Thanks for coming, Allan. You can stay on for the rest of the meeting if you want to.Petition 23 is from the Save Wemyss Ancient Caves Society. It concerns access to Wemyss ancient caves. The petitioners are asking for storm damage to the access to the caves to be repaired. That is the responsibility of Fife Council rather than the Executive or any committee of the Scottish Parliament. The recommendation is that the petition should be passed to Fife Council asking it to consider the points raised by the petitioners and to respond directly to them. The council should also be asked to notify the committee of its response to the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 520519,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 520529,
      "EditedText": "They have certainly been involved with Historic Scotland and other agencies, but I do not know the full extent of that involvement. It would be worth having a report from those organisations on the steps that they have taken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 520531,
      "EditedText": "I am not opposed to what Helen suggested and it is fortunate that we happen to have someone here who knows about the case, but having on the committee someone who happens to know the background is not the right way to operate. The committee must be satisfied that there is something on public record that tells us what has not been done. We need to get some clarification on what Fife Council's view is, and on what the views of the other relevant bodies are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 520533,
      "EditedText": "Historic Scotland has access to funds to which Fife Council does not have access."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 520534,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that we should refer the petition to Fife Council and to Historic Scotland and that we should ask for their responses to the petition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 520538,
      "EditedText": "Okay—we will pass the petition to the minister with a note saying that it should be referred to Historic Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 520545,
      "EditedText": "There are two or three reasons, at least, why we cannot consider the petition. One is that employment tribunals are a reserved matter, so we could not consider it even if we wanted to. Another is that we may be interfering in a matter that has been dealt with by the legal profession. It is also the case of one individual, and we are not here to consider that.I read through the paperwork. This might not relevant if we are not to refer the petition anywhere, but I did not understand all of it. I had difficulty reading the writing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 520548,
      "EditedText": "It was faxed to us piece by piece; it did not come as one document. That might explain why it was jumbled. However, as everyone has said, this is not an issue that we can decide on—and that goes not only for this committee, but for the Parliament, which I do not think can decide on an individual claim either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 520549,
      "EditedText": "I accept that absolutely—we cannot get involved in individual cases. However, one comment suggests that Mr McClure followed the advice of the Lord Chancellor and attempted to go to the Central Office of the Industrial Tribunals, but received no response. Our response is to advise him to get in touch with the central office again. Perhaps we could be a little more helpful and advise the central office that we have received the petition. Making no judgment on it whatever, we should point out that no response had been given to it previously by the central office—or so it had been claimed—and that we would expect a response to be given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 520551,
      "EditedText": "The correspondent's MP is Malcolm Chisholm. Can we send him copies of any letter we write?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 520553,
      "EditedText": "I agree—the petition should go to the Local Government Committee. I was with you when you met the COSLA representatives, and I wondered whether it might be an idea to refer the petition to Richard Kerley, who is chairing a group that was set up by Wendy Alexander following the McIntosh report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 520554,
      "EditedText": "That would be useful.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 520565,
      "EditedText": "This is an important point and I would like to return to it at another time. Members have mentioned the Carbeth hutters' petition, which we referred to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. That committee—which I think is the busiest committee—considered the petition almost immediately and has already heard evidence on the matter. That is a good example of how the petitions process can work. It is a success story."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 520566,
      "EditedText": "The dates when petitions were submitted will be made available to the committee, so that we can see how the petitions are progressing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 520568,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a point on another matter. I do not mean to suggest that the Parliament should not take action with regard to Stracathro, but I know that most of the health boards in Scotland are having discussions about situations that are similar to that which faces that hospital. If we are not careful, we could be perceived as trying to suck up powers from organisations such as the health boards. I am not saying that that view should be adopted on my say so, but I am nervous about the situation. We are having this discussion in our own areas, whereas perhaps we should leave such matters for determination by local people. Perhaps that is controversial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 520572,
      "EditedText": "It is not laying down a timetable; it is showing concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14197,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 520576,
      "EditedText": "I think that the Stracathro petition arrived at the end of August. It was not long ago. I remember speaking to Andrew Welsh, as the matter was raised at Westminster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 520578,
      "EditedText": "If that is the case, it would be in the public's interest for us to say that we would like to know why the issue is so far down the agenda. We do not want to set a precedent for dealing with petitions last. If we are not pursuing the matter, what is the point of this committee? I am not suggesting that we should write to the Health and Community Care Committee; I am suggesting that we should keep an eye on such situations. That must be part of our role. Who will represent the public interest when a petition is submitted, if not us? We will receive responses from committee conveners who are overloaded with work. I understand that. However, it is part of our role to keep an eye on the way in which committees deal with petitions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 520579,
      "EditedText": "The clerk advises me that the Stracathro petition was first discussed on 21 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 520583,
      "EditedText": "I agree. The monitoring role of this committee is far more important than our role in referring a petition to the Executive or the committees. We must ensure that something is done in those circumstances. At the next meeting, all the dates that have been requested today will be available, so that it will be much clearer whether a petition has been lying around for a considerable time. It is the role of this committee to chase up such petitions. I anticipate clashes between this committee and most other committees in the Scottish Parliament. Other committees will not like being forced to pay attention to petitions, but it is our job to ensure that they are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14197,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 520584,
      "EditedText": "We are not allowed to be controversial or clash with other members in this Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 520586,
      "EditedText": "The next item is the discussion of proposals for the launch of public guidance on petitions. We thought that the next meeting, on 16 November, would provide an ideal platform for the launch of the public guidance material. However, the clerk has suggested that that is a bit optimistic, as the document that we hope to launch has not been finalised and agreed by the committee. Further design work will have to be carried out on it. We will probably have to use the meeting on 16 November to finalise that work. The suggestion is that we aim for a launch date in late November or early December. No committee meeting is pencilled in for those dates, so that might be the time to do it. Is that okay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 520595,
      "EditedText": "That gives me the opportunity to congratulate you on the press release that was sent out. It was picked up by the local media in my area and they used it to ask questions about the work of the Public Petitions Committee. I did a short radio broadcast on that, which was very useful. I presume that you sent out a press release."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14198,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 520600,
      "EditedText": "Schools as well, if necessary. The guidance note will also be placed on the Parliament's website, and will include an interactive forum for those who want to submit petitions by e-mail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 520604,
      "EditedText": "All day?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 520608,
      "EditedText": "I understand that committee meetings are timetabled round the committees that we are all on, so if there is no petitions meeting, I will be at justice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 520612,
      "EditedText": "Sooner rather than later, I think."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 520617,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We will not necessarily have access to this committee room, but the launch could be held outwith the Parliament if necessary, to try to attract the press."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 520618,
      "EditedText": "It could held in the Parliament chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Steve Farrell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 520630,
      "EditedText": "The paper will be added to the existing public guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Steve Farrell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 520636,
      "EditedText": "Some of the handwritten petitions that we have received have caused committee members and clerks real difficulties. We have to establish a form that makes petitions easy to understand and to follow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 520642,
      "EditedText": "I thought that any typewritten or printed petitions would be in addition to handwritten ones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 520643,
      "EditedText": "I agree that there should be as little guidance as possible so that we are not restrictive. However, some of the petitions that we have seen have not been legible. Although there should not be too many rules on the proper form of petitions, we must ask people to make an effort—I would err on the side of caution on handwritten ones.The petition should be signed and dated by the petitioner and the petitioner's address should be clear. Those are normal rules of petitions. Particularly when one is counting signatures to see what the strength of feeling is, it is important to identify that they are real petitioners and not made up. We should ask for addresses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 520644,
      "EditedText": "That is to be included in the general guidance. We will ask for signatures, dates and addresses. With those amendments, is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 520645,
      "EditedText": "That paper will be brought back in full form to the next meeting of the committee, on 16 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ID": 14199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 520646,
      "EditedText": "The convener of the Procedures Committee, Murray Tosh, responded to our letter about changing the standing orders to allow the submission of petitions on other than sitting days. His letter states:\"I quite agree, at first sight, that the current procedure seems unduly restrictive. I have discussed your request briefly with the Clerk to the Procedures Committee, and he will set in motion the work to make an amendment to existing practices.If the legal advice indicates that this can be done easily and quickly, then the Clerk will seek approval from the Members of the Procedures Committee to have a paper with a recommendation placed before the next Committee Meeting. This would hopefully allow us to include the necessary amendment in the resolution which we will bring forward to change standing orders in a variety of respects in the period after the recess.\"We have a letter from the Presiding Officer asking conveners to draw it to the attention of committees that meet in the chamber that we should not invite members of the public in the galleries to sit in members' seats. There is an allegation that they interfere with the sound system and disrupt the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ID": 14199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 520648,
      "EditedText": "Some of the committees have to meet in the Parliament building, and rather than have the public sitting up in the gallery, some committees have invited them to sit where members sit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ID": 14199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 520650,
      "EditedText": "The allegation is that they interfere with the sound system. I do not know whether that is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ID": 14199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 520651,
      "EditedText": "I do not understand, because a card is needed to use it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 14200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 520653,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for being late, but I would like to ask about something that I missed. When lobbying the Parliament was discussed, what action was decided on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 14200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 520656,
      "EditedText": "I think that the Standards Committee's conclusions will make that clear. If the petitioner is not satisfied, he can petition again.The clerk tells me that he has already been sent the information from the Standards Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3307775+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 520562,
      "EditedText": "That would help us to keep track of their progress. I was present when the Justice and Home Affairs Committee considered the petition from the Carbeth hutters, so I am aware of the time scale on that one but, as the months pass, it would be useful to know how long petitions have been in the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 520567,
      "EditedText": "We need to know when the petition was received, when it was referred to the subject committee and when a report was made on it. I do not know how the clerks table it, but it should be in an easily understood form."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 520577,
      "EditedText": "It was given quite a low number—PE13—so it cannot have been a recent petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 520580,
      "EditedText": "We are told that petition 13 will be considered on 24 November. Have the petitioners been advised of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ID": 14197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 520582,
      "EditedText": "They should know. There is an old lawyer's dictum that says that the client must be told what is happening, even if nothing is happening. If there is a delay and the petition is with a committee for too long, we should be able to write to a petitioner to say that we are concerned that the matter has not been dealt with, and that we have contacted the convener of that committee. That would give the impression that we are monitoring—I hate this word, but I shall use it—in a proactive way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 520593,
      "EditedText": "That is a pity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 520599,
      "EditedText": "Schools?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 520603,
      "EditedText": "There is a Justice and Home Affairs Committee meeting on 23 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 520605,
      "EditedText": "It is usually in the morning—sometimes it is in the afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 14198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 520625,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but that should be made clear in the paper. Will that document form the basis of guidelines for the proper form of petitions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 14199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ID": 14199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 520649,
      "EditedText": "Were they naughty?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1926291+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 520446,
      "EditedText": "I second that. We should apply the competency test to decide whether a petition refers to a matter within the remit of the Scottish Parliament and whether it is presented in a competent format."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 520481,
      "EditedText": "Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 520530,
      "EditedText": "Your background knowledge of the case is certainly very useful, Helen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 520537,
      "EditedText": "I do not see why we should string this out. We can set three or four targets at the same time. We could send to the minister copies of the correspondence that has been sent to the other organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13461,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13461,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Murray Tosh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 496044,
      "EditedText": "I think that all the dramatis personae have now gathered, so we will begin. Welcome to the sixth meeting of the Procedures Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 496046,
      "EditedText": "In chapter 2, there is a change to rule 2.2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 496050,
      "EditedText": "We will make those changes throughout."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 496052,
      "EditedText": "If we have not done so, we can cover that by a letter to the bureau indicating our intention. I think that the bureau would be likely to accommodate that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 496057,
      "EditedText": "If the committee were minded to accept that, we could outline our decision in a letter to the Presiding Officer. As an Opposition debate is scheduled for later this week, we would do that immediately. By adopting Iain's proposal, we would be attempting to avoid being over-prescriptive in standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 496058,
      "EditedText": "I accept what the clerk says about this creating something of an anomaly, but I hope that if we sent a letter to the Presiding Officer, he would be minded to rule that a precedent would be set this Thursday and followed thereafter. We have fought hard on the issue, and I am grateful to the Executive for the attitude that it has taken. In those circumstances, we want to ensure that this becomes established practice, rather than merely something that happens from time to time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 496063,
      "EditedText": "There needs to be a good system for informing members of the Parliament about the late reconvening of a meeting that has suspended. If it is a needle issue and members do not hear about what has been decided, they will moan about being disfranchised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 496065,
      "EditedText": "Rule 7.4.1(e) might be slightly over-prescriptive in referring to \"a lunch break\". One can imagine circumstances in which there was an emergency meeting that went on all evening. We would then have to suspend for \"a lunch break\", although we were actually breaking for dinner. I do not want to be picky, but I wonder whether we should not add something to make it clear that the meeting can be suspended for lunch, coffee, meals and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 496069,
      "EditedText": "I was wondering whether rule 8.16, on adjournment and closure of meetings, when moved by members, should not logically be included under rule 7.4. At present, rule 8.16 follows the rule on motions for adjournment of a debate, but it seems more logical that it should be included under the rule that deals with suspension and closure of meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 496071,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to rule 7.8, about which there is also a legal question. The suggestion is that, currently, the rules applying to committees are more flexible and we would be wise to leave matters as they stand. I think that we should accept that.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 496075,
      "EditedText": "I think that people work round the fringes of any definition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 496076,
      "EditedText": "I am worried about the sub judice rule. I hear constantly about people being advised under the sub judice rule that they cannot raise a particular matter. I accept that the rule should be in standing orders, but either now or later I would like us to receive papers from the clerks on the sub judice rule and the rule of privilege. Members need to understand those rules, and it would help if the Procedures Committee considered them first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 496080,
      "EditedText": "That sounds sensible. Is everybody agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 496081,
      "EditedText": "Rule 8.5 remains the same, but there is a change to rule 8.16. That concludes our consideration of chapter 8.We now come to chapter 11. There is a change to rule 11.2, which is consequential on all the others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 496082,
      "EditedText": "In rule 11.2.2, 18:30 must be optional rather than prescriptive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 496085,
      "EditedText": "We ruled on that in a sense, in handling the terminology, when we said that we would address them as Presiding Officers and would therefore regard the deputy as the Presiding Officer for all those definitional purposes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 496089,
      "EditedText": "Okay. It is just that the first time I read it, I misunderstood it, which means that other people might do the same."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 496093,
      "EditedText": "If a member is very swithery on an issue, can he vote differently the second time from the first time? Is it a revote or a new vote? That could be an important point if someone was nobbled between divisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 496095,
      "EditedText": "I cannot imagine that happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 496097,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that if—for the purposes of argument—hunt saboteurs were to interfere with the electronic machinery, they would still have a chance of getting your vote, as long as you had to vote twice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 496099,
      "EditedText": "The issue cannot be addressed in the standing orders. It is a political point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 496102,
      "EditedText": "Rule 12.1.11B deals with that. It states that the temporary convener\"shall exercise all functions of the convener of that committee until the convener is again able to act as convener.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 496105,
      "EditedText": "If the convener were incapacitated, to whom would the clerk relate in progressing with any business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 496107,
      "EditedText": "Presumably there would then be a meeting to elect a temporary convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 496113,
      "EditedText": "I well understand that point. Is everybody happy with rule12.1?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 496120,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I feel a press article coming on; you had better be careful about that remark. We should not discuss it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 496123,
      "EditedText": "Apologies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 496138,
      "EditedText": "Is everybody happy with that suggestion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 496139,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 496141,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we will specify that, but it would seem to be a logical conclusion, applying existing practices."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 496143,
      "EditedText": "We could suggest that to the Presiding Officer, and it would be up to him how he dealt with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 496146,
      "EditedText": "Would it be acceptable if we made it clear that we see balloting as a reasonable way of selecting some of the questions? The standing orders would not then need to be changed, as it would become a matter of interpretation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496148",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 496148,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that anybody is disputing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 496152,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is a key issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496160",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 496160,
      "EditedText": "The closing time for closed questions was 2 o'clock because the Presiding Officer had to have an opportunity to select questions for open question time before the ballot. Obviously, that had to be done before he went into the chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496161",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 496161,
      "EditedText": "Shall we make it 2 o'clock for both closing times?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 13462,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 496163,
      "EditedText": "That is true. Shall we make it 2.30 pm for both, then? That is a natural time, with members entering the chamber and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 496166,
      "EditedText": "Yes, in the light of reflection and advice, we should standardise the closing times."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496174",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 496174,
      "EditedText": "What does the chamber office think? Presumably the issue centres on work load."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496178",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 496178,
      "EditedText": "Logically, members should be able to lodge questions at any time from the end of question time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496184",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 496184,
      "EditedText": "That would be difficult, as it relies on the Presiding Officer knowing that a particular MSP—out of all the MSPs who have pressed their buttons to speak—has an interest in a particular issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496188",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 496188,
      "EditedText": "Although Janis is right to raise the point, Mike is also right that it cannot be written into standing orders. In the periodic letters that the committee sends to Sir David, perhaps I should reflect our suggestion that, as he exercises his discretion, he should be aware of other members in the chamber with an interest in the topic under question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13463,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 13463,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 496192,
      "EditedText": "We move on to agenda item 2, which is a letter that was sent to Sir David Steel after a previous meeting, giving him advice and guidance on a number of issues that had arisen. I trust that the letter adequately summed up the committee's views on a range of issues.Yesterday, I had a reply from Sir David; it was too late to be included in the agenda papers. He thanks me for the letters about proposals to the Procedures Committee and apologises for not having responded earlier—he has been on his annual holiday. He says:\"I have read with interest the committee's recommendations on the referrals from the Bureau and look forward with interest to you bringing forward a report to be considered by the Parliament.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13463,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 13463,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 496197,
      "EditedText": "Some issues have been flagged up and will be included in the committee's long-term programme. Other matters will simply arise from continuing experience of working in the chamber. That is a fair point to note for future discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13463,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 13463,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 496198,
      "EditedText": "Just to show that I have read the letter, I inform the committee that the section on holding answers mentions\"recesses of 5 days or more\" in the first paragraph of bold type. I thought that officials had decided that the 21-day deadline should apply to recesses of four days or more."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13463,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 13463,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 496199,
      "EditedText": "They had indeed. That will be changed in the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 496200,
      "EditedText": "The third item on the agenda concerns the paper arising from Margo MacDonald's letter and the Presiding Officer's referral on topicality and urgency. The issues identified in the paper are emergency questions, supplementaries, emergency motions and ministerial statements. The officers have analysed each of those issues and have come up with recommendations. First, can we consider the recommendation on the decision to call an emergency question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 496204,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is desirable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 496206,
      "EditedText": "Sure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 496207,
      "EditedText": "I have somewhere seen the important point made that such issues can be locally urgent rather than nationally urgent. A proposal to close a hospital in Ayr and to open one in Kilmarnock—or whatever—would be a big deal for the members who represent that area. That would not be a national issue, but it would still be urgent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 496210,
      "EditedText": "This morning, I had a brief discussion about this matter with someone in the Executive, who seemed to concur that the Executive did not oppose the proposal in any way, as it was an entirely logical development. If supplementaries are allowed for other questions, one could not disallow them in the circumstances of a national emergency and have only one member—who might not be the constituency MSP—asking a question. Supplementaries must be allowed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 496212,
      "EditedText": "Yes—that point is even more germane to this issue. One would want to ensure that the question was very focused, because it is an emergency question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 496213,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 496214,
      "EditedText": "Will we have to wait to implement this, or will it pulled into current procedures?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 496215,
      "EditedText": "It will be done right away."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 496220,
      "EditedText": "I asked the Executive to think about this issue and to work out a protocol—with which we would all be happy—to determine what should be announced in the chamber. The point was made that the Executive makes announcements all the time and that to announce absolutely everything in the chamber would consume the business time of the Parliament. However, the minister was receptive to the idea that some issues are of sufficient moment and significance that members would wish them to be announced in the Parliament. The Executive needs to think through how it allocates the various decisions and the stages at which those decisions are taken. There is scope for dialogue to resolve this matter to everyone's satisfaction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 496221,
      "EditedText": "Murray, I wish to make another point about emergency ministerial statements to the Parliament following an Opposition demand for one, which should be infrequent. At the moment, there is no mechanism by which the Opposition can obtain such a statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 496225,
      "EditedText": "A balance should be struck, to be fair. Mike is right to say that the Opposition parties might want a discussion about some pressing matter. However, if the First Minister is working in the background to make his statement valid, correct and appropriate, he may require some time. We must find a resolution to the issue somewhere between the two positions. A pressing matter may be raised by an Opposition party that is saying, \"Let's exploit—\", or rather, \"Let's get more information about a situation\". However, the Executive must be allowed to respond appropriately and meaningfully with a statement that is not a knee-jerk reaction but that contains information that people will find of interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Witnesses (Interests)",
      "HeadingID": 13465,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ID": 13465,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 496229,
      "EditedText": "It is more likely that the committee clerks will identify people who have a particular interest and will ensure that, when witnesses give evidence, they understand what the score is and that they should be above board in declaring anything that might inhibit or colour their evidence in any way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Witnesses (Interests)",
      "HeadingID": 13465,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ID": 13465,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 496230,
      "EditedText": "In serious circumstances, committees have the option, if they are worried, to ask for evidence to be given under oath, in which case failure to declare an interest when questioned is contempt and a criminal offence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Witnesses (Interests)",
      "HeadingID": 13465,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ID": 13465,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 496231,
      "EditedText": "Is that okay?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Mace",
      "HeadingID": 13466,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ID": 13466,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 496232,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to the fifth item on the agenda, which deals with the parliamentary mace and which, as members can see, has been extensively researched through a variety of different Parliaments and chambers. We are invited to discuss the issue, particularly whether the current arrangements are appropriate, whether we wish to reintroduce the ceremony that has taken place on a number of occasions or whether we wish to suggest an alternative ceremony."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Mace",
      "HeadingID": 13466,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ID": 13466,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 496234,
      "EditedText": "A minimalist approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Mace",
      "HeadingID": 13466,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ID": 13466,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 496235,
      "EditedText": "A quick dusting over."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 496237,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to item 6. The clerks do not want to be drawn into involvement with the initial setting up of the convenerships of committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 496238,
      "EditedText": "That is obviously to avoid the charge of planning a coup d'état."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 496239,
      "EditedText": "The clerks have struggled a wee bit to find a reason why they should not handle the nomination of conveners and have come up with a question. What happens if someone asks a point of order before the convener is elected? We could resolve that by saying that the committee could elect a temporary convener or that it is not competent to make points of order before the committee has elected a convener. However, I say that in the firm knowledge that someone will find another reason why the clerks should not deal with this matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 496240,
      "EditedText": "I am struck by the arrangements for starting a session of the Parliament, for which the chief executive or principal clerk takes the chair. That seems to be logical response to a situation in which no elected member is yet able to take the chair—it occurs in many local authorities. I am also struck by the fact that the same is not true for a committee, because any member of that committee could take the chair in such circumstances. There are ways in which this matter could be addressed. The reasoned concession is that no one has taken the oath. The clerks are reluctant to be involved in this process—there is a key issue about the possibility of making rulings that would alienate members, but one can alienate members just by looking at them. It would be wise to stick with the solution that the oldest member takes the chair unless that member does not want to do it. We have already solved the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 496241,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that suggestion, as long as the clerks re-examine this issue to ensure that we have not tied ourselves in knots by adopting two contradictory positions. If so, it will be reported back to us. Why cannot the chief executive take the chair at the first meeting of every committee? Interruption. I am told that that is because of pressure of business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 496242,
      "EditedText": "There would also be the difficulty of omnipresence, in terms of the timing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 496244,
      "EditedText": "Did they?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 496248,
      "EditedText": "That means that the clerk to the committee would not chair the meeting; the chief executive, who is a clerk, would nominate someone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 496251,
      "EditedText": "This is a huge storm in a teacup. As a professional oldest member, I am very happy—as I think other people are—to preside over a rapid fix. It is not a big deal and I am all for the present system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 496252,
      "EditedText": "It would seem that, as we have one system, we do not need another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 496253,
      "EditedText": "If the clerks do not want to do it—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 496254,
      "EditedText": "We have talked ourselves through this item to the stage where we accept the innate conservatism in the establishment of the Parliament. Laughter. Having agreed Mike Russell's suggestion on item 6, we come to item 7."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13469,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13469,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 496260,
      "EditedText": "I think that we must have done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13469,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13469,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 496261,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure about the meaning of the answers. If I replied that I live in Edinburgh and go home to Edinburgh at night, have I qualified as a \"stay\" or a \"travel\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13469,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13469,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 496267,
      "EditedText": "You are a Cabinet minister: you could make the trains run on time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Discussions)",
      "HeadingID": 13471,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ID": 13471,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 496274,
      "EditedText": "As delighted as I always am to discuss matters with you, convener, it is not necessary at the moment for you to meet the shadow Minister for Parliament, as I am here anyway. In future circumstances, were that not to be the case, meetings should take place not only with the Minister for Parliament, but regularly with the other parties, so that their views and those of the business managers or shadow Minister for Parliament are taken into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 496278,
      "EditedText": "There is an annexe to the  forward work programme showing the various issues that have already been raised over the past few months, but which referred to the medium term rather than the short term. Obviously, they will come back to us. My one question about this list of issues is on paragraph 9, which refers to the financial issue, rule 9.12. Presumably, that is the issue which Mr McCabe raised. We have agreed that it should be a priority issue. Item 12 is a matter raised by Paul Grice, about which I should advise the committee. There is a feeling that there are matters concerning interparliamentary liaison which have nowhere to go. It might be appropriate for the Procedures Committee to examine the issue. The example that Paul gave was the question of what we thought about House of Lords reform. This Parliament has not had the opportunity to have an input into the matter. As such matters arise, it might be relevant for the committee to consider them. We felt that it might be useful to invite Paul to put those thoughts down in a more coherent form and to produce a proposal, which we could consider as part of the on-going remit of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 496284,
      "EditedText": "The power of prayer could be used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 496285,
      "EditedText": "I would not like to answer for the Almighty, but as far as the Procedures Committee is concerned, we will examine suggestions and advise on how they might be tackled. I cannot give you an off-the-cuff answer. I do not know, and I do not think that the clerks are sure either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 496286,
      "EditedText": "If they are faintly relevant, I might put a few brief thoughts on paper for a future meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 496288,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, there is a great deal of support in the bureau and elsewhere for ensuring that the maximum support is provided to committees. In his article in The Herald, John McAllion made some important points about the areas on which we should focus and about how we should find the resources to support committees through the information centre and elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 496292,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 496294,
      "EditedText": "What is our present time scale for laying the standing orders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 496296,
      "EditedText": "We should ask for one of the Thursday slots after First Minister's questions, which are the shortest slots available—about an hour and a half—by the end of November, so that we can get this programmed in and under way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 496298,
      "EditedText": "That was my point. Do we want to spend an hour and a half on this? Several four-minute speeches could be fitted in, and I do not think that the issue merits that much time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 496299,
      "EditedText": "There are no shorter slots, although there is the possibility of sharing the slot with, perhaps, a ministerial statement, which would take half or three quarters of an hour. That would be the obvious way in which to proceed. However, we should still ask for the slot by the end of November, so that we can get the measure through. Once the standing orders are enacted, we will have to change to the new system of questions immediately, I presume. It would not be a bad thing to have the first new question time in December. We could then work out any problems, so that by the new year we were happy with the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 496302,
      "EditedText": "The intention is that the standing orders should be ready to be laid by the end of November. That depends on how quickly the work can be completed, which is bound up with taking and receiving legal advice and sorting out the nuts and bolts. It also depends on timetabling. However, the indication from the committee is that we will do our best to get the business dealt with as early as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Communication",
      "HeadingID": 13473,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 13473,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 496305,
      "EditedText": "Item 12 is a letter that I received, including a briefing paper, on the culture of our politics. Its joint authors would like to meet the committee—I am sure that the committee will agree to that. It would not be a formal meeting and would not require an Official Report. It would simply be an exchange with the organisation in question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Finance Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13475,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ID": 13475,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 564.0,
      "ContributionID": 496315,
      "EditedText": "It would be a power of general competence for committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Finance Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13475,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ID": 13475,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 568.0,
      "ContributionID": 496317,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:17."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 496045,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is a set of extracts from standing orders incorporating a variety of changes. I propose that we do not go through these documents page by page and paragraph by paragraph, but that we take them section by section. If any member has a question to ask or points to make, they will have the opportunity to do so.Many of the changes are technical. The clerks' view is that if, once we have approved the changes, they discover any consequential changes of a minor nature, they should be allowed to make them without further consultation or reporting back to the committee. I hope that we can agree to their doing that, as it is essentially a technical and legalistic process.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 496047,
      "EditedText": "I would like to say something, as the change involves consequential changes. The effect of this change, and subsequent changes, is to imply that Parliament's normal meeting day on a Wednesday should continue until 7 o'clock. I am pretty certain that the intention of the committee—and, I know from discussion, the intention of the Parliamentary Bureau—was that there should be the option of meeting until 7, but that it should not be enshrined in standing orders that that should happen every Wednesday. We need a form of words that makes it clear that it is possible to meet until 7, but that members will be given substantial warning if that is to happen. That should be included here and throughout the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 496054,
      "EditedText": "Is everybody happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 496059,
      "EditedText": "I think that Sir David is very receptive to guidance notes from this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 496066,
      "EditedText": "It stands as a reproach to our legal advisers that they did not pick up on that technicality. However, Mike Russell makes a pertinent point—should we change the wording to \"a lunch or other break\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 496070,
      "EditedText": "We will consider that. I think that we have ruled out a disturbance. Is everyone happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 496073,
      "EditedText": "Can Gordon or some other expert tell us whether there has recently been a definition of offensive language? I am asking him as a lawyer, rather than as a propagator of offensive language."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 496074,
      "EditedText": "It is like an elephant—it is hard to describe, but you know it when you see it. I cannot offer a definition of the word \"offensive\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 496077,
      "EditedText": "We can include that in our on-going work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 496083,
      "EditedText": "We will pick that up, in the spirit of what we agreed earlier. In rules 11.4 and 11.5 there are consequential changes. There is a substantive change to rule 11.7, to take issues 3 and 4 into account. There is a small consequential change in rule 11.8.5. There are changes to rule 11.10."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 496084,
      "EditedText": "An issue arises out of rule 11.7.2(a), which will be relevant to other parts of the standing orders. I presume that somewhere in the standing orders it is stated, \"for Presiding Officer, read Deputy Presiding Officer\"—and that it is understood that the Deputy Presiding Officers are Presiding Officers for the purposes of the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 496086,
      "EditedText": "I would not want a challenge to them on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 496087,
      "EditedText": "I ask about the sentence underlined in rule 11.8.2. The first time that I read:\"If any member disagrees with the question put under this paragraph,\"I thought that it meant a member disagreeing with the wording and that it did not represent the issue. On second reading, I realised that it did not mean that. It seems a curious form of words to say:\"If any member disagrees with the question\".Is it a technical term, that a member \"disagrees with the question\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 496090,
      "EditedText": "I wish to make a similar point to Donald's. On rule 11.4.3, is it necessary to have the part about casting votes again in that paragraph, because it makes it cumbersome and complex to read? When a division is taken again, it is not a fresh division—it is still part of the same division. Is it necessary to include that, as it adds to the confusion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 496091,
      "EditedText": "The officials debated this long and hard. Our advice was that it should be made crystal clear that members were casting their votes again. That is why that form of words appears."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 496094,
      "EditedText": "Heaven forfend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 496098,
      "EditedText": "That could well be in The Guardian again, chaps."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 496101,
      "EditedText": "The officials raised a valid issue on rule 12.1.12. We agreed unanimously that we did not need a vice-convener or deputy convener, but if the convener was ill and there was work to be done between meetings, to whom would the clerk relate to get it done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 496103,
      "EditedText": "How would we establish a temporary convener if, during the recess, when a lot of work was being done, the convener were to walk under a bus or get hit by a golf club and were incapacitated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 496104,
      "EditedText": "Or fell off his horse while hunting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 496109,
      "EditedText": "The point that Donald is making is that if urgent business was to be decided, a meeting would have to be called anyway. If a decision had to be taken, a meeting would have to be called at which a decision could be made about a temporary convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 496112,
      "EditedText": "I was trying to relieve myself of some work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 496115,
      "EditedText": "There is an issue about the oldest member chairing the first meeting to elect the convener. That is taken up in one of the later papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 496121,
      "EditedText": "Rule 12.2.1 states:\"including the convener, or deputy convener\".Should that say \"temporary convener\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 496122,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it should. Well done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 496124,
      "EditedText": "That is a black mark."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 496126,
      "EditedText": "Surely more than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 496127,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is about 100-1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 496128,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to chapter 13, on statements and parliamentary questions.We have made changes to rule 13.3 and 13.5 and extensive changes to rule 13.6.I had a thought about paragraph 5 in rule 13.6, which is on oral questions. Hitherto, the standing orders had specified that there would be three questions to the First Minister. The suggestion is that that should become four. I wonder whether we should specify a number. If the fourth question does not last five minutes, the Presiding Officer might wish to have a fifth question available. It would be regrettable if he were to be precluded by standing orders from establishing whatever number seemed reasonable. We might want to avoid being too specific.Would members like to comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 496129,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the principle of what you are saying. I am not sure that there should be such a tight prescription, given that we are moving to a 20-minute open question time.Another issue is how the questions are selected. The argument that questions for First Minister's question time should be lodged later for topicality perhaps removes the need for the Presiding Officer to select questions that he thinks might be topical.The practice that has developed is that the Presiding Officer tends to select a question in the name of the leaders of the two main Opposition parties, to ensure that they get an opportunity. If we are moving to a more open procedure, provided that they are guaranteed the opportunity to participate in the topical debate, does the Presiding Officer need to select all the questions? Perhaps he could select two questions, and the others would go into an open ballot in the same way as other questions. Do we need to follow the same procedure for what is a different type of question time from the original? I am not sure that the Presiding Officer is enthusiastic about having to select all these additional questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 496130,
      "EditedText": "A number of questions must be published. If it were left open, all the questions would have to be published. I think that four is unduly prescriptive. On Thursday, we could have fitted four questions into 15 minutes. Perhaps five or six should go on the order paper. We need to specify the number of questions to be published, but four is too low.Iain has raised an interesting issue. It must be guaranteed that the leaders of the Opposition parties are given an opportunity to question the First Minister. The present mechanism is that a question from each of them heads the list. That is the best way to do it. Therefore, two of the six questions would be automatically chosen. There could then be another four questions, of which we might reach two or three.I accept what Iain is saying, that we might draw in the leaders of the Opposition parties on supplementary questions. I am not sure that that is as good as giving the opportunity for questions to be asked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 496135,
      "EditedText": "If we are moving the time of lodging First Minister's questions to ensure that they are more topical, we should ensure that the questions lodged are topical."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 496136,
      "EditedText": "We are straying away from strictly procedural matters and into bureau business. We are examining the standing orders, and those mechanics are not necessarily for us to resolve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 496140,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps two questions could be selected and four chosen by ballot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 496142,
      "EditedText": "The logical conclusion of applying existing practices is that the Presiding Officer can select questions. I would have no objection if there were two questions from the leaders of the principal Opposition parties and four by ballot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 496144,
      "EditedText": "Mike is making the point, which is correct, that the standing orders specify that there is a ballot for closed questions and that  there is a choice by the Presiding Officer in open questions. If we wanted to operate the bulk of First Minister's question time in the same way as the existing closed question time operates, we would have to change the standing orders further than they have been changed here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 496150,
      "EditedText": "We would have to follow the original question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 496151,
      "EditedText": "In that case, the leaders of the Opposition parties must have the right to lodge a question, as it is possible that none of the questions drawn—however good—would raise issues on which they wish to do battle that day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 496154,
      "EditedText": "That is a very good reason for allowing the principal Opposition leaders to lodge a question themselves. However, the Presiding Officer should not be obliged to ballot. If questions are submitted three days before, he will have a better opportunity to draw a spread of questions on topical issues across the political spectrum for the 20-minute slot. He should be free to ballot if he wishes, but it should not be axiomatic that he has to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 496159,
      "EditedText": "I do not see why not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 496164,
      "EditedText": "Let us agree that both closing times should be the same; the officers will work out which time is more sensible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 496165,
      "EditedText": "One way or the other, the time has to be the same."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 496170,
      "EditedText": "Iain has a good point—I have never thought about it before."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 496171,
      "EditedText": "This is a particular problem in recess. It seems a bit daft that members have to be in Edinburgh on specific days to lodge questions for when Parliament meets again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 496176,
      "EditedText": "So the rule should say that questions should be lodged by the eighth day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 496182,
      "EditedText": "I think that the officials have got the gist. We will ask them to consider any necessary changes to the standing orders.That takes us—mercifully—to rule 13.7."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 496183,
      "EditedText": "Rules 13.7.5 and 13.7.6 deal with the general issue of supplementary questions. The committee discussed supplementary questions from MSPs who had an interest in a specific issue for reasons of locality or otherwise. That has not been written into the rule. Can we firm up on that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 496185,
      "EditedText": "But is not it the case that, at Westminster, the Speaker might be told that a group of MPs—perhaps from neighbouring constituencies—has a vested interest in an issue that has been raised and could be called to speak?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 496186,
      "EditedText": "It is not a question of being called to speak; such MSPs are motivated to ask questions. I do not think that anything could be written into the orders to cover those circumstances. A member might be passionate about a certain topic; however, the rest of us will not know that until the member asks a question, at which point we suddenly discover that they are an expert on, say, embroidery—unlikely as that might seem.The Presiding Officer has to decide on the issue. Any member is free to approach the Presiding Officer before question time to tell him that they have a particular interest in a matter for certain reasons. I know that the Presiding Officer is very open to members notifying him that they want to be called because they have a burning question. However, I do not think that that can be written into standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 496189,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful.In rule 13.7.9, the word \"open\" should not be included in the phrase \"First Minister's Open Question Time\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 496190,
      "EditedText": "Janis will be a marked woman after this meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13463,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 13463,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 496194,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should make sure that, in future, such letters are numbered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 496201,
      "EditedText": "That is a very important issue, as it is a matter of interpretation. It is extremely helpful to draw to the Presiding Officer's attention the fact that the standing orders can be interpreted to allow emergency questions on a broader range of matters. This is the right step to take."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 496202,
      "EditedText": "On the third page of the document, the sentence in bold type makes a good point about the inclusion of a wee note to explain why the question is urgent. That could be incorporated into whatever system we have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 496205,
      "EditedText": "The fact that no emergency questions have so far been allowed, despite requests for them, indicates that the presumption is against having them. The explanation for that is contained in Sir David's letter. That presumption has to be shifted to a position of neutrality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 496208,
      "EditedText": "There is a fear that someone might jump the queue. As there should be a written note, the Presiding Officer will be given the opportunity to decide whether the issue is an emergency and whether it is locally rather than nationally important, which is the point that Donald Gorrie raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 496209,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are generally in agreement on that item. The next item deals with supplementaries to emergency questions. We are invited to suggest a change to standing orders so as to admit supplementaries from all MSPs at the discretion of the Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 496216,
      "EditedText": "I ask because this is one of the urgent issues that we are discussing today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 496217,
      "EditedText": "The decision on emergency motions seems to follow on logically on from what we have agreed about emergency questions. Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 496218,
      "EditedText": "I have, in a sense, jumped the gun on ministerial statements. I will report later on a meeting that I had with Tom McCabe. This issue was raised at that meeting and will be the subject of further discussion. I hope members are happy with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 496219,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. However, this matter is of considerable concern, particularly to Opposition parties. There should be opportunities—used sparingly, as they are—for Opposition parties to be able to request and obtain a ministerial statement on an issue. Currently, there is no mechanism so to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 496222,
      "EditedText": "I did not raise that specific point, although I raised the point that, I think, Alex Salmond raised in a point of order. I asked about the mechanism for debating an issue that is suddenly important and topical. The minister's view was that pressure had not been brought to bear through the bureau for debates of that nature. He felt that Opposition parties could request a debate by going through the bureau and that they could also request a change in the agreed forward programme of Parliament. Again, we could, through discussion, evolve a practice. I understand and fully support your point, Mike. I am not sure that the standing orders route is necessarily the right way of approaching this issue, although it is an option if we find that we cannot get a better and more flexible way of bringing up important issues reasonably timeously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 496224,
      "EditedText": "The issue is under discussion. My intention is to steer the talks reasonably crisply through to a code of practice, protocol or understanding—whatever may evolve—that will satisfy all interests. However, if I do not make progress, I will report back to the committee, which will have the opportunity to discuss what steps it wants to take as a consequence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Witnesses (Interests)",
      "HeadingID": 13465,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ID": 13465,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 496227,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to item 4 on the agenda, which was raised by Alex Neil in a letter that is submitted again. We have a report and the view is that we should write to committee conveners—and use the conveners liaison group—to express this committee's view that all committees should be aware of their witnesses' interests in whatever matter is under discussion, without necessarily making people go through elaborate formulae where they attest to interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 496243,
      "EditedText": "The initial meetings took place on separate occasions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 496246,
      "EditedText": "The chief executive in person, or his depute, could chair the meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 496249,
      "EditedText": "Our committees are peculiar, in that the allocation of conveners is a behind-the-scenes political act by the Parliament. The election of convener is not a free-for-all—the candidature is limited to one, two, three or perhaps four members. Even more than most things in public life, that is a fix beforehand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Financial Resolutions",
      "HeadingID": 13468,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ID": 13468,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 496256,
      "EditedText": "This matter must be included in the priority report to the Parliament. While unintentional, it has horrendous consequences in terms of timetabling matters through committees, which could lead almost to gridlock if the Executive repeatedly produces financial memorandums at the same time as bills. We are already feeling some constraints, so this matter must be part of our priority review and must be a priority change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13469,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13469,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 496262,
      "EditedText": "A stay, I think."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13469,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13469,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 496263,
      "EditedText": "A stay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13469,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13469,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 496264,
      "EditedText": "People were available in Edinburgh—that is the reason."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Discussions)",
      "HeadingID": 13471,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ID": 13471,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 496273,
      "EditedText": "Item 10 on our agenda is a note of the meeting that I had with Mr McCabe. His suggestion is that we should meet regularly to discuss matters of common interest, as the First Minister likes to put it. I propose that we do that, and that I report back verbally on the discussions that took place. We met last week. The gist of the meeting was that Mr McCabe asked me to express his gratitude to the committee for the way in which it conducted the review of the standing orders. I reported specifically on question time, on summing up on non-Executive days, and on the proposed additional half day, which I felt were the areas where we had not necessarily accepted all the evidence that he gave to the committee. I raised concerns about ministerial discussions along the lines of the discussion earlier in the agenda. Mr McCabe raised the issue of the financial resolutions. That is what we discussed, and we will continue to communicate on that basis in future, if the committee is happy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Discussions)",
      "HeadingID": 13471,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ID": 13471,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 496275,
      "EditedText": "I am perfectly happy to meet anybody whose role fits in generally with what you are saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Discussions)",
      "HeadingID": 13471,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ID": 13471,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 496276,
      "EditedText": "Given how the Parliament operates, meetings should be bilateral."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Discussions)",
      "HeadingID": 13471,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ID": 13471,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 496277,
      "EditedText": "I understand your point. Obviously, I have chats with Lord James Douglas-Hamilton from time to time, purely on a party basis. The logical consequence is that, whoever holds the post of convener of the Procedures Committee should always deal on an informal and regular basis with all the relevant people in the main parties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 496279,
      "EditedText": "That is very wise. The issue of House of Lords reform almost fell between stools in this Parliament because of the time scale according to which the Parliament was operating and the time scale according to which the Wakeham committee was taking evidence. I made a point about the House of Commons Procedure Committee report. Although that committee made recommendations about the relationships between the members of legislatures, we as a Parliament have not yet made recommendations about members of the Westminster Parliament or of the European Parliament. We should discuss that report reasonably urgently, perhaps before Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 496281,
      "EditedText": "The House of Commons Procedure Committee report considered some of the issues concerning interparliamentary liaison. It is a procedural issue, about how the Parliament operates. There would have to be an amendment to standing orders to allow it to happen. There is no reason why we should not make suggestions to the corporate body.There are two other issues, which I have raised already. First, I would like the rules on sub judice and privilege to be addressed. Secondly, at a very early stage, I raised the matter of a comparative exercise with other bodies' standing orders. I have recently requested, from John Patterson, information from other bodies. I have examined other documentation, including standing orders in Holland. This Parliament could learn from other people's experience. At some stage, we should have a discursive meeting on particular issues, informed by experience of other bodies' standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 496283,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether this is the right vehicle for these issues. One is the relationship of civil servants to the Parliament—in particular to the parliamentary committees. They will work less efficiently than they should if they do not have good support from the civil servants. I am not sure whether that is a Procedures Committee issue. If one had a suggestion on improving liaison between ministers and MSPs, to streamline and reduce the overall work load, and to reduce the number of unnecessary questions and so on, such as introducing a surgery system—would that be for the Procedures Committee, the Parliamentary Bureau, God or whoever?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 496290,
      "EditedText": "Will we prioritise those issues at some stage? Can we get a prioritised list and timetable for between now and next March?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 496291,
      "EditedText": "From January 2000?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 496295,
      "EditedText": "We are still hoping to do that before the turn of the year. We will soon start to hit the problem of time slots, but we have indicated that we do not anticipate that we will need a particularly long slot. Because there is general agreement on the changes, there should not be great controversy on the floor of the chamber. I do not see the need for me to make a long speech, and I do not think that the minister sees the need to give a long reply. If we are willing to agree that we should submit our report fairly quickly, there could be more flexibility. However, if our intention is to take an hour and a half, which would allow everyone to have their say, it will be difficult to shoehorn that in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 496301,
      "EditedText": "It would be nice not only to have laid the standing orders before the recess, but to have had at least one new question time before we rose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 496303,
      "EditedText": "Of the issues on the list we have already dealt with, by and large, emergency questions. We have managed to dispense today with the method of electing committee conveners. We have also dealt with the declaration of interests, unless there is a wider issue than the one that we addressed with regard to Alex Neil. We are, therefore, reducing the size of the list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Communication",
      "HeadingID": 13473,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 13473,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 496306,
      "EditedText": "I would have thought that those people would have liked to give evidence on the process so far. Alice Brown's department is doing work on members' experience of procedures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 13474,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 552.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 552.0,
      "ID": 13474,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 496310,
      "EditedText": "Item 13 is an exchange of letters with the Scottish Daily Newspaper Society. If we are all happy to note that, that takes us to item 14."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Finance Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13475,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ID": 13475,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 558.0,
      "ContributionID": 496312,
      "EditedText": "We will try."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Finance Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13475,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ID": 13475,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 562.0,
      "ContributionID": 496314,
      "EditedText": "That is also relevant to the conveners meetings. There can be a de minimis level, but the conveners meetings can be used to settle difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13461,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13461,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 496043,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:01"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 496048,
      "EditedText": "That is a pertinent point. I see from the indications that members are making that everybody agrees with what Michael Russell is saying. We will instruct that the necessary changes be made.That takes us to chapter 5. There are changes to rules 5.2 and 5.6. Are we happy with those?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 496049,
      "EditedText": "Consequential changes will have to be made to rule 5.6 as regards times for meeting on a Wednesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 496051,
      "EditedText": "Under rule 5.6.1(b), there is no formula for the division of the half sitting days for Opposition business, apart from one agreed between the Opposition parties. I do not have a problem with that, but it needs to be pointed out. Although the Procedures Committee decided that it would offer a half day to the two smaller parties, that will take place on the basis of a decision by the committee, rather than being enshrined in standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 496053,
      "EditedText": "The Tories and the SNP have agreed a division of five and 10 half sitting days for Opposition business. The two half sitting days for the smaller parties will now have to be added. The bureau should be notified of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 496055,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to chapter 7, on the conduct of meetings, to which rule 7.2.5 has been added. Iain would like to comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Parliament (Iain Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 496056,
      "EditedText": "I want to question whether it is necessary to include this provision in standing orders. The Executive is now content with the view of the Procedures Committee, as expressed at its previous meeting, that in Opposition day debates it should be the normal practice for the party that moves the motion to sum up. It does not seem necessary that that should be specified in standing orders. It might complicate standing orders unnecessarily to include something about who should sum up in debates. Perhaps we should simply accept that the practice will be as the Procedures Committee has agreed and advise the Presiding Officer accordingly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 496060,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that the Presiding Officer can be given such advice at today's meeting of the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 496061,
      "EditedText": "I voted for the suggested change, but it is quite clear to me that, on all other occasions—whether it is moving a motion or seeking to put through legislation—the Executive should have the right to reply, regrettable though that may be. However, if a member were to propose a bill on fox hunting, for example, I am not sure whether he or she would have the last word. Do we need a ruling on that, or should it be a decision for the Presiding Officer? Again, if the Procedures Committee, for example, were pushing through a bill that was not a Government bill, would the convener have the last word? It would be worth examining that in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 496062,
      "EditedText": "I agree. I do not think that we need to add this to the priority issues, but the committee will need to consider and, if necessary, act on it, before the first member's bill comes before Parliament. We will, of course, be examining the procedures for members' bills. Donald Gorrie has made a pertinent point, which, as he says, also applies to committee bills.That takes us to the deleted rule 7.4, the new rule 7.4 and the long and constructive legal opinion that is bracketed on the following page. My own view is that those matters can be dealt with perfectly adequately by the Presiding Officer, applying his own interpretation to the circumstances in which he might want to keep the staff on standby until midnight. That is most unlikely to occur, except in the most abnormal circumstances, so we need not detain ourselves on the issue any longer. However, if anyone is otherwise minded, we can discuss it, although we may end up back in Tom Shields's diary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 496064,
      "EditedText": "Again, that is a matter for the operation of the chamber. The Presiding Officer should attend to it, in any suspension that he initiates. Here, again, we should not be over-prescriptive in standing orders. However, as with all these matters, if we misjudge that, we can return to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 496067,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 496068,
      "EditedText": "One man's lunch is another man's dinner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 496072,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to chapter 8. There is a change to rule 8.2, to deal with the issue of sub judice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C496078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 496078,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what Michael Russell said. Recently, in the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, the deputy minister appeared before us and we were given legal advice by the staff that he could not speak about certain things. The convener, Roseanna Cunningham, thought that that was ridiculous, and I thought that she was absolutely right. I could not see any sense in the ruling. The issue needs to be clarified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 496079,
      "EditedText": "The interpretation of the rule is so tight that we might not be able to discuss changes to parental placing regulations, if any appeals against such regulations were under way anywhere in the country. That has not happened yet, but there is some suggestion that it might. It would mean our ending up with complete gridlock on certain matters.I am also worried about the issue of privilege. Although my understanding, on the basis of a previous ruling that I sought from the clerks, was quite clear, there still seems to be some nervousness in the advice that we are getting as to whether we enjoy the same rights of privilege that are enjoyed in other places. I suggest that at a future meeting we receive papers on sub judice and privilege, which would form the basis of a ruling that all members can understand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 496088,
      "EditedText": "When a question is put and a member disagrees, there is a division."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 496092,
      "EditedText": "That is probably correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 496096,
      "EditedText": "I might change my mind on an issue such as hunting, on which I am ambivalent. Am I allowed to do so between the first and second divisions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 496100,
      "EditedText": "We had reached rule 11.10. I was galloping through, or attempting to—no hunting analogies, please.If members are happy with rule 11.10, we will move to chapter 12. There are extensive changes to rule 12.1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 496106,
      "EditedText": "The oldest member."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 496108,
      "EditedText": "The only difficulty is that if those tragic circumstances were to arise in the summer, a meeting would have to be called in the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 496110,
      "EditedText": "I think that is covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 496111,
      "EditedText": "Failing which, it would be the oldest member. Donald should have declared an interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 496114,
      "EditedText": "Is the issue of the oldest member being unwilling to act covered?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 496116,
      "EditedText": "That still imposes a burden on the oldest member, who might not be willing to act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 496117,
      "EditedText": "That is covered by rule 12.11C (b)."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 496118,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The rule states that any reference to the oldest committee member means the oldest member of the committee\"who has indicated to the Clerk that he or she agrees to chair the meeting.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 496119,
      "EditedText": "In those circumstances, it could conceivably be that the oldest member was the youngest member."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 496125,
      "EditedText": "That is 1-0."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 496131,
      "EditedText": "It depends on the sort of questions that they ask. At present they are asking, not quite, \"What are your engagements for today?\" but questions such as, \"When did you last meet the secretary of state?\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 496132,
      "EditedText": "That is because questions had to be in eight days in advance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 496133,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. If there was an assurance from the Opposition leaders that they would ask genuine, topical questions, which would be answered, that would be fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 496134,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that an assurance will be given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 496137,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we publish six questions in the business bulletin, rather than four."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 496145,
      "EditedText": "In stipulating that there are two questions from the principal Opposition parties and then four others, we are legislating only for this Parliament. There could be three principal Opposition parties in a future Parliament. We should leave it to the Presiding Officer, but he should receive a note from the Procedures Committee stating that what we expect is that there would be questions from the principal Opposition leaders and he would select others on their topicality and to achieve balance in the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 496147,
      "EditedText": "As long as there is always space for the principal Opposition parties to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 496149,
      "EditedText": "In closed questions, supplementaries must be relevant to the original question. Is that the case in open question time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 13462,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 496153,
      "EditedText": "The same line should be followed in open question time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
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      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 496155,
      "EditedText": "The current practice is that the third question in open question time is chosen from questions that are generally submitted to the Executive. The Presiding Officer should continue to choose such questions on that basis, if he thinks that they are good and topical.There is now, however, an additional category of questions that are lodged too late to be included in the ballot. In such circumstances, the Presiding Officer might find that he has a fair number of reasonably topical questions. We should give him the greatest flexibility, not least to cover him against the possibility that he might not be able to find four questions that have been submitted late in the week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 496156,
      "EditedText": "Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 496157,
      "EditedText": "It will make life a bit more complicated for the Presiding Officer, but someone has to pay the price for greater flexibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 496158,
      "EditedText": "There is a tiny anomaly between rules 13.6.4 and 13.6.4A. The closing time for lodging questions is 2 o'clock for closed questions and 2.30 pm for First Minister's questions. That will cause confusion in members' minds. Cannot the closing time be 2.30 pm for both question times?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 496162,
      "EditedText": "The system has changed and the Presiding Officer does not have to do that anymore."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 496167,
      "EditedText": "Another issue that puzzles me about rule 13.6.4 is why oral questions can be lodged only on the eighth or ninth day before question time. Although I understand the need for a cut-off time, I have never quite worked out why questions can be lodged only on those days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 496168,
      "EditedText": "These things are given and lesser mortals do not challenge them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 496169,
      "EditedText": "Well, I am a lesser mortal and I am challenging the rule."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 496172,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps it is like buying lottery tickets—nobody buys tickets for the lottery after next. However, people may want to lodge questions on the 10th day, as well as on the ninth and eighth days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 496173,
      "EditedText": "I myself have tried to lodge a question on a day when the clerks would not accept it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13462,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "William Venters (Assistant Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 496175,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, the raison d'être of the rule about the eighth and ninth days is to give the Executive notice of the questions that will be asked and to give it time to prepare for question time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 496177,
      "EditedText": "There should also be a starting point, because one set of questions should not run into the previous set of First Minister's questions. Members should not be able lodge questions until at least the Friday after a question time on the Thursday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 496179,
      "EditedText": "But that would be almost two weeks before that particular question time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 496180,
      "EditedText": "A member might know that he or she will not be in the chamber for a particular question time, but want to lodge a question for the following week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 496181,
      "EditedText": "There is a case for expanding the time for lodging questions to the Monday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 496187,
      "EditedText": "Although I hear what Mike is saying, I am concerned that members with vested interests will not be able to ask a supplementary question because other members have got in before them. Is there any way in which we can give priority to members with such vested interests?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders (Draft Changes)",
      "HeadingID": 13462,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13462,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 496191,
      "EditedText": "She should not expect to get another supplementary question.We move on to chapter 15 on openness and accessibility. There are changes to rule 15.4, allowing people to lodge petitions on different days from those initially specified.We move on to chapter 17, entitled \"Miscellaneous\". Rule 17.1 has been extensively changed, as the first paragraphs fall now that the standing orders have been adopted. Rule 17.2 now becomes rule 17.1.We move on to the annexes, which are just for purposes of cross-referencing.That dispatches the first item on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13463,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 13463,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 496193,
      "EditedText": "I want to pursue an issue that arises under the heading \"Urgent Responses\". The letter is not numbered but the text can be found about 10 pages in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13463,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 13463,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 496195,
      "EditedText": "What bugs me at Westminster is that the Speaker system—not the lady herself, who does an excellent job—does not think that its job includes making ministers reply properly to questions. I think that its job should be to do that; what is happening is part of the creeping erosion of the power of the Parliament vis-à-vis the Executive. We should recognise that the civil service here is struggling to cope with a deluge of questions and letters. Perhaps the Parliament should give the Presiding Officer the power to tell ministers that they should bloody well reply smartly. If they fail to reply within two, three or four weeks, somebody should be able to crack a whip. Maybe that is an issue for the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13463,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 13463,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 496196,
      "EditedText": "The Presiding Officer has the power to find ministers in contempt of the Parliament's standing orders. However, during Andrew Wilson's members' business debate, Andrew was allowed to show his displeasure at the Executive's practice of issuing press statements and announcements to pre-empt such debates.Members should refer inadequate written and oral answers to the Presiding Officer; it would be a significant sanction against the Executive if he chooses to raise such matters from the chair. There is no doubt that many Opposition members are very unhappy with the quality of answers—particularly written answers—that they receive and with the time that it takes to receive them. Many members are raising that issue with the Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 496203,
      "EditedText": "Is there a question of balance? A member could conjure up an emergency and convince people that it was an emergency, yet he or she have chosen to omit mentioning certain issues to get the question treated as an emergency. I presume that the Presiding Officer will take a round view of the question that is posed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.784452+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 496211,
      "EditedText": "We should bear in mind the point that I made earlier about supplementaries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 496223,
      "EditedText": "Will we keep the issue of ministerial statements under review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Questions, Motions and Statements",
      "HeadingID": 13464,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ID": 13464,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 496226,
      "EditedText": "Tom McCabe also made the fair point that there were occasions when ministers made an announcement that reflected a direction in which they intended to go on an area of policy, without having worked it up to the stage where they were ready to come to Parliament for detailed questioning. There are interests on all sides in this matter and a balance to be struck. I assure members that the committee will have the opportunity to discuss this matter again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Witnesses (Interests)",
      "HeadingID": 13465,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ID": 13465,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 496228,
      "EditedText": "Could that be done in the form of a precursory question sent out to witnesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Mace",
      "HeadingID": 13466,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ID": 13466,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 496233,
      "EditedText": "I think that committee members might be of a common mind. The present arrangements are fine. We need nothing more and should keep them for forever and a day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Mace",
      "HeadingID": 13466,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ID": 13466,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 496236,
      "EditedText": "Are we all happy with that? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 496245,
      "EditedText": "I think that they did."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 496247,
      "EditedText": "That would be feasible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13467,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ID": 13467,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 496250,
      "EditedText": "Shame."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Financial Resolutions",
      "HeadingID": 13468,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ID": 13468,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 496255,
      "EditedText": "Item 7 is an examination of a report on the issue raised by Sir David Steel about the timing of financial resolutions rule 9.12.6. I have received a memo from Tom McCabe that contains a proposal that the Executive feels would resolve the difficulty. The officials could work quickly on that and bring a report to the next meeting, for inclusion in the priority report to the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Financial Resolutions",
      "HeadingID": 13468,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ID": 13468,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 496257,
      "EditedText": "That is accepted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13469,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13469,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 496258,
      "EditedText": "Item 8 appears on the agenda as \"MSPs' movements mid-week\"—despite instructions to the contrary, the clerks have removed the capital M from the word \"movements\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13469,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13469,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 496259,
      "EditedText": "I am impressed that there have been 129 replies. Did we pressurise members until they gave in? That was very wise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13469,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13469,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 496265,
      "EditedText": "Clearly, it will be difficult, but it will be no more difficult than we thought. I am surprised that half the members stay. In any case, if members meet on Wednesday night, it is not as if the transportation system grinds to a halt at 7 pm on Wednesday. It keeps running to most places for a considerable time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13469,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13469,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 496266,
      "EditedText": "The transport system has ground to a halt all day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13469,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13469,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 496268,
      "EditedText": "It is an interesting piece of evidence. We can relay it to the Parliamentary Bureau for its information, as and when it chooses to hold a later meeting. It can take the evidence into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13470,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ID": 13470,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 496269,
      "EditedText": "That takes me neatly to the next item, which is an exchange of letters between me and the chairman of the Procedure Committee of the House of Commons. It is here for our information, so that we know that an approach has been made. When we started to look at diaries at this end and at the Westminster end, it was very difficult. I do not know that a meeting will ever take place, but the intention is there, which is all to the good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C496270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13470,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ID": 13470,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 496270,
      "EditedText": "The debate in the House of Commons represented, in my view, the House of Commons at its worst. Apart from the fact that I did not get a chance to speak, which was bad news, it was not very good. To be fair, Mr Nicholas Winterton was good. He is a very good committee chairman."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13470,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ID": 13470,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 496271,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the document supply centre has copies of the Procedure Committee's report. I have not been able to get mine yet, but I want to get one because it would be useful for this committee to discuss it from our perspective at a future meeting. That might throw some light on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13470,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ID": 13470,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 496272,
      "EditedText": "I previously asked the clerks to ensure that they go through the debate and pick out matters that appear to be pertinent to this committee. I know that the Minister for Parliament has also been reading the report. I am sure that we will derive whatever benefit there is to be taken from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 496280,
      "EditedText": "I gather that the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body is dealing with the housekeeping arrangements between the Parliaments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 496282,
      "EditedText": "The clerks have a general desire  to have a thorough look at chapter 10 of the standing orders, which deals with Scottish statutory instruments. We should include that in the work list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C496287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 496287,
      "EditedText": "The conveners committee is considering the first issue that you raise, with regard to support, and will discuss it again today. The matter has been taken care of. I suggest that it is not appropriate for the Procedures Committee to address it, because it is a resource issue for committee conveners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 496289,
      "EditedText": "We could still ask Donald to put his thoughts down on paper, so that we can ascertain whether some of the points that concern him fall to the other bodies that are dealing with the issue, which might be of relevance to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 496293,
      "EditedText": "From January through to March."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 496297,
      "EditedText": "Do we really need an hour and a half?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C496300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 496300,
      "EditedText": "I agree. We should look to complete the process by the end-of-year recess, so that we can return with the new standing orders. We must also bear in mind that, once we have agreed the final version of the standing orders, we will have to give the parties some time to discuss it, before we bring it before Parliament. I will take advice from the clerks, but I think that we should still be looking to lay the standing orders before the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 13472,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ID": 13472,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 496304,
      "EditedText": "There are some fairly heavy things on the list—such as members' bills—that will take a lot of time. At subsequent meetings, members will still be free to bring up further points and priorities, and they will, no doubt, continue to be referred from the chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Communication",
      "HeadingID": 13473,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 13473,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "ContributionID": 496307,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that they are looking to give evidence. If they wanted to do so, and to make specific points, that would be appropriate. I was under the impression that they wanted to talk about those matters on a more or less informal basis. We will ask them; if they want to present formal evidence and look for formal responses, we will have a formal meeting of the committee with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Communication",
      "HeadingID": 13473,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 13473,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ContributionID": 496308,
      "EditedText": "If it is best to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Communication",
      "HeadingID": 13473,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 13473,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 550.0,
      "ContributionID": 496309,
      "EditedText": "We will make the offer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Finance Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13475,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ID": 13475,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 556.0,
      "ContributionID": 496311,
      "EditedText": "Item 14 is the Finance Committee remit, which it got in in the nick of time. Can we deal with it in the time scale?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Finance Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13475,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ID": 13475,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 560.0,
      "ContributionID": 496313,
      "EditedText": "It might be that the issue is not just about the Finance Committee, but about the remit of all committees, and that we should look at the remits with a view to establishing that they are de minimis. No committee should be precluded from looking at something that is relevant simply because no one thought to include it in the original standing orders. We might look at that in future, but we must deal with the Finance Committee first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Finance Committee (Remit)",
      "HeadingID": 13475,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ID": 13475,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 566.0,
      "ContributionID": 496316,
      "EditedText": "Yes, one could call it that.That brings us to the close of the meeting. Thank you for your attendance and for your contributions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.8000714+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 12939,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12939,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 478616,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 478617,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, colleagues. I would like to start, as today we have a heavy agenda.It is incumbent on me to ask whether anyone in the room who will be taking part in the evidence-taking session has an interest to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 478618,
      "EditedText": "I own a small business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 478623,
      "EditedText": "Just to be on the safe side, I should say that I have a part-time researcher who is a part-time small businessperson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 478624,
      "EditedText": "Anybody else? Kenny is not sure—if you are in doubt, tell us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 478628,
      "EditedText": "Sadly, I do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Sharp (Federation of Small Businesses): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 478632,
      "EditedText": "That was not the original intention. I set out to examine the situation for small businesses. I did not produce this report with transitional relief in mind. However, I would imagine that a relief scheme of 50 per cent and 25 per cent would take a block of property value completely out of transitional relief. It would no longer apply. I do not have figures on how many properties in that value band receive or would continue to receive transitional relief. Indeed, at this time, I do not even know where the assessors will be coming from in terms of the increase in rateable value for that band. That is for another day. However, in terms of potential appeals, the number of properties involved is significant. Such a relief scheme would identify the problems for small businesses and might also address the problem of transitional relief for 2000 and onwards. However, at the initial stage, it was never intended that the two would interlink. One is a consequence of the other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 478640,
      "EditedText": "You have an advantage on us, as we do not have that paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 478645,
      "EditedText": "This follows on from Colin's point. Do you accept that the burden has to go somewhere?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 478646,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 478647,
      "EditedText": "You say that the burden should fall on the block grant and that you do not want the burden to fall on bigger businesses. What element of the block grant do you think should be cut? What part of the block grant would go to help small businesses? Or would you prefer increased taxation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 478648,
      "EditedText": "We prefer increased taxation, but helping small businesses at this level can lead to increases in turnover and profit, increased jobs and an increased tax share. Trying to foster economic growth will cost the Scottish Executive in the early years. It will pay dividends in the next five or 10 years if we encourage existing small businesses to grow, and if we encourage small business start-ups. We will not see the benefit in the next two or three years, but we should start looking more at the long term in creating more jobs and businesses, because that will increase the amount of tax payable to the Exchequer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 478655,
      "EditedText": "It would not be affected. We would still have it. Members of the committee may not have seen the consultation paper that we received this morning. In paragraph 5.1, the Executive quotes figures that show that there is a disproportionate burden on small businesses. In paragraph 5.6, it admits: \"The very largest properties are therefore better able to face bigger increases in their bills.\"As a percentage of overheads, business rates for larger companies are minimal and they can afford to pay those bills. Paragraph 4.2 states:\"The Executive believes that ratepayers who stand to gain from the Revaluation through decreases in their bills should, in principle, bear the costs of protecting those who face large increases.\"What will happen is that businesses whose bills are decreased will find that there will be increases in some shape or form to cushion the businesses that have large increases. If the scheme is put into place, transitional relief will therefore not benefit anyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 478658,
      "EditedText": "First, I am concerned that, yet again, we do not have a paper to study, which would have been useful.Leading on from what Fergus Ewing said, are there any disadvantages, apart from this administrative one, in having a more tapered scheme rather than one with thresholds?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 478662,
      "EditedText": "I do not know how soon you expect a decision on this. It is unfortunate that we must address two issues. The first is revaluation, which is imminent; the second—which I would like to happen—is the reduction in rates, which is of benefit to business. No decision on that will be reached until after next April. My concern is that if we pursue revaluation and the reduction in rates at the same time, revaluation will throw up some anomalies, particularly under your scheme. For example, if a business is in the wrong place at the right time, or the right place at the wrong time, there will be huge increases or decreases in its valuation. In those circumstances, the revaluation of a company that is in dire straits may be negligible. If it is below the threshold of £7,500, it will already have been receiving a reduction in ratesm and will still benefit under this new scheme. The rates for a company in a highly desirable area, which has increased its rateable value substantially, could climb dramatically and the scheme would not help it, as its revaluation would take it above the £7,500 threshold. How would you address that situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 478664,
      "EditedText": "I acknowledge what you are saying. I am one of the lucky ones: I saw the paper that you are talking about today. It talks of an average increase of 13 per cent. Some increases will be below that and some will be far above it. Under your scheme, some people will benefit who should not, and others who should benefit will not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 478666,
      "EditedText": "You said that the figure for some properties will remain static. If inflation is taken into account, those businesses will already receive a reduction in rates, but you are going to give them more, to penalise the properties whose rateable value exceeds £7,500. Is that what you are saying?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 478668,
      "EditedText": "We would like to find a viable way in which to help small businesses, if we can. The CBI paper says that there is a risk that landlords would merely put up rents if the rates were reduced. I am not here to help the landlords. Could you comment on whether you think that is a real danger and on how we could avert it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 478672,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Before you go, I want to reiterate what Fergus and Donald said. The committee seeks a fair and workable scheme, which is why we have decided to respond to your difficulties. I will say in support of the Scottish Parliament, which gets more bad publicity than good, that it would have taken a long time for this meeting to have happened in Westminster. Although we might not have come up with any answers for you today, we have heard your evidence and have been delighted to ask you questions. In fact, we might ask you to return to clarify some points. You have been very helpful. Thank you very much.We now have Bill Johnston, Duncan Chisholm and John Cardwell from the Scottish Assessors Association, who will give a short presentation and then take questions from the committee. Committee members will ask you one question with perhaps a supplementary. If we have time at the end, we might return to some points for clarification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C478676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 478676,
      "EditedText": "My question is more about the policy issues. I accept that you implement regulations and statutes that are provided for you, but do you recognise the concerns of the small business community about the disparities that exist within the system? Do you think that those need to be addressed by this committee, the Parliament or the Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 478679,
      "EditedText": "The directors or heads of finance services use the assessment roll to compile the bills. That is based on the valuation roll, which shows proprietor, tenant and occupier. The ratepayer is the person who is lifted from the valuation roll for the use of the head of finance. Obviously, in any system a flag could be attached to those premises that are owner occupied, but when we gather information on behalf of the heads of finance, which we do regularly, we record only the names of the proprietor, the tenant or the occupier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 478681,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that there could be a system for defining a city centre shop. However, if we decided that Princes Street and George Street were principal shopping streets, there would be dispute about whether Shandwick Place was a principal or a secondary shopping street. What we are saying is that any scheme based on a definition—even based on specifying where the line should be drawn—would be simple to implement. However, if we leave any room for dubiety about where the line runs, we will end up in an argument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 478683,
      "EditedText": "John Sharp said that he would exclude advertising hoardings. In an effort to assist John with his analysis, the assessors from the five areas have tried to compile their statistics to fit in with his definition of, for example, commercial public houses. However, we would prefer to have a definition of which properties were excluded, based either on the identity of the ratepayer or on the category of use of the property. In the interface between council tax and the non-domestic valuation roll, there are many regulations that define, for example, bed-and-breakfast accommodation. Parliamentary draftsmen are quite adept at providing us with workable definitions.Sorry, I have forgotten your second question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 478685,
      "EditedText": "On that point, John Sharp had a dig at the chartered accountants, some of whom may or may not be around this table. We are only poor chartered surveyors. One would need a form of accounting procedure that determined ability to pay.The Federation of Small Businesses published a report in 1992, \"Removing the Business Rate Burden\", which I managed to get a copy of only this morning. It says that there are three ways of looking at this, two of which are a bit iffy because they do not use the same accounting procedures. Any scheme would have to be careful about what would or would not be included in ability-to-pay calculations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 478686,
      "EditedText": "Given your expertise, would it be possible for you to make a calculation based on out-of-town developments? Many people are concerned about the amount of energy that is used and the pollution that is produced by people getting to out-of-town developments.Another problem is that out-of-town developments take business away from urban shops, which then go out of business. That means that fewer people are left to pay rates. Could you advise us on how to address that situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 478690,
      "EditedText": "The purpose of a revaluation is to change the burden of rates. If the system operates properly, the burden will fall on the more successful businesses because they are the ones that pay higher rents. Out-of-town shopping centres probably pay higher rents than businesses in the town centre.The weakness of any property taxation system is that it does not relate directly to ability to pay. The argument about whether small businesses pay a larger percentage of their total income than larger businesses does need to be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 478692,
      "EditedText": "I would imagine that that is the case. I am not a computer expert but, if the scheme were based on the rates payment, I am sure that the heads of finance would ask for hundreds of thousands of pounds for new computer systems to handle it. Computers can be shown to do virtually anything, if there is a will to have something done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 478699,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that landlords do not keep rents artificially high in order to secure loans, for example? The 50 per cent relief on such properties impacts on other businesses because the money that is not being gained from those properties being used has to be raised from other businesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 478700,
      "EditedText": "I do not quite understand the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Johnston (Scottish Assessors Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 478702,
      "EditedText": "I am not aware of that being a problem. If anything, the opposite would happen: the landlord would be keen to cut his losses and accept a lower rent to have his property occupied."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 478705,
      "EditedText": "I know that this might be seen as breaking the party line but I think that there are problems. Consider a small shop in a tertiary shopping street. It might become obvious that, due to a change in shopping patterns, that shop will never trade again. Many shops in the street might be in the same position. Obviously, assessors have to consider the rental value. The owner is liable for 50 per cent of the rates on the property, and must continue to pay. It is very difficult to see how the owner could gain any income from the property. That matter needs some thought."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 478709,
      "EditedText": "As a practitioner, I would not recommend extending the cycle beyond five years. The normal rent review pattern in Scottish leases is five years. Before the 1990 revaluation in England and Wales—we had one at the same time—there had not been a revaluation for 17 years and there were huge changes all over.The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors published the Bayliss report, which recommends a shorter revaluation period of three years. Mr Cardwell mentioned the swings in market values. A shorter review period would allow those swings to be reflected in the rateable value more quickly. There are practical difficulties in shortening the period, in terms of dealing with appeals and gathering information on which to base the analysis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 478710,
      "EditedText": "I think that Mr Chisholm said that he expected something like 64 per cent would appeal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 478711,
      "EditedText": "65 per cent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 478712,
      "EditedText": "How much of an impact does that have on your staff resources? Is that what you work on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 478713,
      "EditedText": "Dealing with revaluation appeals ties up the staff for about three years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 478715,
      "EditedText": "It would help in terms of managing resources, but the effects of the revaluation would be much more dramatic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 478722,
      "EditedText": "The Forum of Private Business in Scotland produced a paper on this matter. Did you receive it and, if you did, do you have any comments to make?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 478728,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that a presentation would take only five or 10 minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 478730,
      "EditedText": "It is likely that I will need to leave before the end of today's submissions as I have constituency business this evening. I would appreciate it if we could take the submission from the Forum of Private Business next week, but I understand that other members may not agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 478732,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy with that. I have read the submission from the Forum of Private Business, and I appreciate the fact that its representatives are here today, but a meeting with them is not on the agenda. It is difficult to change an agenda because of the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478740",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 478740,
      "EditedText": "Since I will not be here at the end of the meeting, I will raise a housekeeping matter now. I was asked whether we have invited the Scottish Retail Consortium to attend. Would it be possible to hear from the consortium next week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478744",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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      "ContributionID": 478744,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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      "ContributionID": 478745,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat (Scottish Executive Development Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 478747,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for the opportunity to address the committee today. Our presentation will be fairly short. We circulated copies of our six slides and of the consultation document on transitional relief that we published last week. Does everyone have those copies?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 478750,
      "EditedText": "I think it was dated 28 October."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 478753,
      "EditedText": "I said I would take the matter up elsewhere. It is enough that I have said that. If you were a member of the committee, you would know that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 478754,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I recognise that there are some issues to be decided about what gets circulated to whom. We are still settling on that.I plan to spend a minute or so on each slide, starting with a couple that set the context. Slide 1 shows some key facts on non-domestic rates that the committee will want to bear in mind. As members will be aware, the system is similar to that for council tax. Wherever possible, properties are valued by reference to market rental. In Scotland, we raise approximately £1.4 billion revenue from 218,000 properties and the current poundage is 48.9p.The committee has just had a presentation from, and the chance to talk to, my colleagues from the Scottish Assessors Association. No doubt they explained what they do and that their valuations are subject to appeal.In the current round, all bar 200 of the 218,000 total properties are subject to conventional valuation. The properties that are subject to formula valuation are mainly the old public utilities, such as pipelines and railways. The Executive will shortly table a series of orders on that for discussion. We have consulted those industries over the past few months and it is likely that formula valuations will be agreed within the next week or so. Beginning later this month and running through into early January, a series of about 13 orders will be introduced; Pete Hancock has had discussions with the Parliamentary Bureau about the handling of that.Slide 2 concerns revaluation 2000, the statutory five-year revaluation. Members are aware that that is the big issue at the moment and is now under way. That involves a number of processes. Pete Hancock and his colleagues Ian Christie and Stephen Orr form the team that will help to put the statutory mechanisms in place by conducting the consultations on formula industries and putting forward the various statutory instruments that are required to give effect to the revaluation. The valuations are carried out by the assessors and the base, or tone, date is 1 April.The committee may be interested to know the factors from the last revaluation five years ago. The average increase in uplift in Scotland was 33 per cent against an uplift of 5 per cent south of the Border. For revaluation 2000, Duncan Gray, our senior statistician, is overseeing the sample survey that is nearing completion. The latest estimates are that the average uplift across Scotland will be about 13 per cent, while the figure in England is likely to be nearer 22 per cent.Slide 3 shows some of the main statements that the Minister for Finance has made at meetings and in the draft consultation paper, which members have received. The minister has made it clear that, as is normal in revaluation, the aim is to maintain the same overall tax yield. Therefore, the burden on Scottish business in aggregate should remain the same. That means that there should not be any implications for the block. Ministers had previously decided that there should be no localisation of business rates and that harmonisation of the valuation approach should be maintained, which in essence means that similar properties north and south of the border will be subject to the same principles of valuation. The aim is to achieve what the minister has called minimum turbulence. The minister recognises that there is uncertainty, which he wants to minimise wherever possible. Even within a 13 per cent uplift across Scotland, there could be significant variations within localities or sectors, so there may be quite enough difficulties for individual businesses. The Executive's aim is to minimise the turbulence that revaluation will cause. Slide 4 shows some of the key decisions to be made and the time for that.  The poundage rate will need to be set towards the end of this month and no later than early December, as it is an integral part of the local government finance settlement. Consultation is taking place on the transitional relief scheme; the consultation period finishes at the end of December. Ministers will take a view in December or January. In the light of the committee's hearings and other representations, the minister is considering whether to consult on a separate rate relief scheme for small businesses. Slide 5 shows some of the key points on rate relief for small businesses. There is already some rate relief for small businesses, as is set out in our briefing note. The note also explains that rates were frozen for businesses with a rateable value of less than £10,000 in 1997-98. As the briefing paper points out, that, with transitional relief, makes the system pretty complicated. There is an issue as to whether there should be transitional relief as well as separate relief for small businesses, as that can make life complex, particularly for individual businessmen. We have estimated that a 50 per cent rate relief scheme for businesses with a rateable value below £5,000 would cost about £45 million. If that is to be offset by other ratepayers, there would be a 1.5 per cent increase. Similarly, we have calculated that a 25 per cent relief scheme for businesses with a rateable value of between £5,001 and £7,500 would cost a further £15 million, which would mean a 2 per cent increase for other ratepayers. Slide 6 highlights three final points. Any threshold scheme, whether it starts at £5,000, £7,500 or whatever, has the potential to create a major increase in appeals. Anyone who is just over the threshold, whatever it is, has an incentive to argue the value down, which has resource implications for assessors and local authorities and makes management of the system more uncertain.Another proposal is to link rate relief with the pay-as-you-earn tax system through the level of national insurance contributions. We are considering that proposal, but our initial reaction is that the PAYE tax system is complicated, so would be difficult to adapt to the system quickly. The minister is prepared, however, to consider the possibility of a rate relief scheme. No doubt, in the light of its discussions, the committee will have things to say about that to the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478759",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
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      "EditedText": "Thank you for your comments. I refer you to bullet point 2 in the briefing paper that we circulated, in which we accept that there is evidence of the extent to which the larger proportion of costs impacts on small businesses. The fact that transitional relief, and relief for small businesses, has been given in the past is evidence of the fact that, in Government, there is a recognition of the problem. Members will recognise that the decision about where we go next is a matter for the minister. A great deal of evidence from various bodies with an interest is available to the committee. Duncan Gray and his colleagues have been conducting a detailed survey on the impact that revaluation is likely to have on business. The Executive does not want to be drawn on some of the more difficult and controversial issues that members have raised until it has a greater feel for the overall impact that the revaluation will have.We expect to be able to have a good idea of what that impact is likely to be in a matter of weeks. I look to Duncan Gray, at this point. By the end of this month, we hope to have finalised the sample survey and to be in a far better position to give harder responses to the questions that you raise."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478762",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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    "Committee": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 478762,
      "EditedText": "One of the good things about this committee has been its businesslike attitude. It is regrettable that Fergus Ewing has tried to turn the meeting into a party political broadcast. Earlier, we had information from the assessors about the impact on resources. The information we have on that is set out in bullet points—there is not much detail. Could you expand on what you consider to be the resource implications for local authorities in the threshold scheme that we have been discussing this afternoon?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478769",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 478769,
      "EditedText": "Facing the formidable front row of assessors, I am reminded that I should declare an interest—my brother is a senior partner in a firm of chartered surveyors and I assume that from time to time he haggles with those gentlemen about people's valuations.You may not have the information at your fingertips, but I want to ask about the 50 per cent rates relief for empty properties. Do you know the total cost of that rate relief? If you do not have the figures now, you could tell me another time, but it would be interesting to have the information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 478771,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 478772,
      "EditedText": "You will be aware of the survey that has been undertaken by the Forum of Private Business. It indicated that 87 per cent of small businesses think that rating reform is the most important issue that the Scottish Parliament can consider. Following the revaluation exercise, will the Executive be undertaking long-term investigations into possible alternatives to the rating system?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478773",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
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      "EditedText": "That is clearly a question for the minister—if Jack McConnell were to come to this committee, he would say that he would like to get revaluation out of the way with minimum turbulence. He does not want to cause any disruption to business confidence and performance if he can avoid it. Having said that, he has indicated that, in the longer term, he would be willing to consider changes and different ways of doing things. After April next year, when we have a five-year breathing space, the Executive may be willing to examine the subject again. As an official, I must stress that your question is one for the minister, but logic suggests that changing a well-established system such as this should be done in the first two years of a quinquennium. That would avoid getting caught up in the timetable to which Mr Ewing referred. If one gets caught up in that timetable, it becomes difficult to make changes later on. Because of the nature of the beast, the collection of the statistics and the need to make as informed a guess as possible about the various arithmetic relationships, it is difficult to foresee major changes being implemented before April next year. As I said, logic dictates that we should look at the matter in the first two years of the next quinquennium."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478778",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pete Hancock (Scottish Executive Development Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 478778,
      "EditedText": "That is true."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478779",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 147
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 478779,
      "EditedText": "As I said in reply to Mr Gibson, if we were considering a major revaluation of non-domestic rates in Scotland after April 2000, we would learn lessons from that scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478782",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 478782,
      "EditedText": "Explain why."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 478785,
      "EditedText": "That is a valid point. It is interesting that, on this occasion, the uplift is only about 13 per cent, which is significantly below what it was five years ago, so it seems that unwinding—that is the technical term—transitional relief in the next quinquennium will be much more feasible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 478786,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for missing your presentation—I was dealing with some urgent constituency business. I also apologise if you have covered this point. The Federation of Small Businesses submission suggests two ways in which its proposals could be funded. One is that the Scottish Executive could find funds elsewhere in its programme. I do not want you to respond to that, as I know that the Scottish Executive does not favour that option. What is the Scottish Executive's view on the other option, which is to raise rates for larger businesses by, for example, 3.5 per cent on average?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 478788,
      "EditedText": "I do not know why, but when someone from the Executive comes to give evidence, I always think that they get off easily. I thank you for your comments, which have been helpful. Like Fergus, I am delighted that the minister is at least considering consultation on the rate-relief scheme. Our deliberations will be part of that consultation. It will be interesting to hear what comes out of the consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 478791,
      "EditedText": "I thank the witnesses for coming in early and enabling us to make up some time. I know that you have come straight from another meeting, so I apologise if you rushed up the stairs and were hounded by Craig Harper to come straight into this committee.Allan Hogarth and Iain McMillan are from the Confederation of British Industry Scotland. The procedure will be same as before—they will give a short presentation and I will ask committee members to ask them questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 478804,
      "EditedText": "The first sentence of the third paragraph of the section entitled, \"CBI Scotland's Preliminary Position\", reads:\"In principle, CBI Scotland opposes a rate relief scheme for smaller firms, particularly a self-financing scheme, which, in addition to other flaws, would raise growth hurdles for expanding businesses.\"You appear to assume that the only system that we could possibly implement is the one proposed by the Federation of Small Businesses. Does the CBI accept the principle that there should be rates relief for small businesses so that they can grow? If a company has to pay 30 per cent of its operating profits in rates, surely that is a hindrance to growth. What subjective research has the CBI—or other bodies with which it has worked—done to examine optimum rates levels?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 478794,
      "EditedText": "Can you confirm that you had sight of the Scottish Executive's paper at the weekend? Iain McMillan indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 478796,
      "EditedText": "Let me answer your last question first. Whether or not any cut in small firms' rates is financed from the Scottish block is not relevant to the arguments that I made. My argument was that the scheme, rather than the financing of the scheme, was flawed. I am not here to say that I object to the scheme because larger and medium-sized firms would have to pay for it. What I have done is draw attention to the inherent flaws in the scheme. I hope that that clarifies thingsI hoped that I had expanded a little on the penultimate paragraph of our paper in my statements about the representations that we were making to the chancellor about other ways of helping small firms. I proposed an examination of whether the rent levels are commercially realistic, for example, because although we know that rates form a larger proportion of the turnover and profits of small firms, we do not know why. Such an examination would help us to understand that, because rateable values are based on the commercial rental values of property, which is another way of assessing its true economic value.If we want to address the issue, we will have to dig deep. The point that I wanted to make is that there should be a balance between undertaking a detailed investigation of what the real problem might be and giving help to small businesses through other means. We should avoid flawed solutions at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 478797,
      "EditedText": "You made a point about the hurdles that were an inherent flaw in the banding system, and I suggested that a sliding scale of rates might be an acceptable solution. How does that grab you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 478800,
      "EditedText": "So a sliding scale would operate rather like the tax system? Every business would get the benefit of the lower band and then move up through the banding system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 478805,
      "EditedText": "Our decisions to undertake research are driven by the weight of members' opinions. There is a view that the rates system, like other elements of the tax system, is not perfect. The CBI does not think that the existing system is so imperfect as to justify undertaking the research that Mr Gibson suggests. It is not for organisations such as the CBI to undertake such research, but for those who want to challenge the existing system. Although we do not think that the system is perfect, it is reasonably satisfactory."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 478812,
      "EditedText": "What proportion of its membership does CBI Scotland define as small businesses? I am very interested in what you say about rates relief. Would that be an active disincentive to expansion, and to what extent does the CBI think people make those kinds of straightforward calculations and decisions when they think about moving things on?It might be a good idea to introduce rates relief, but would the folk who were targeted benefit from it? Perhaps the witnesses could expand a bit on that. Rates relief would show that we were trying to act positively, and I think that people would benefit from it.Alternatives were also mentioned and relief of genuine hardship was suggested, but in what other ways could help be targeted? That is not just about dealing with problems as they arise—it is about supporting small businesses that want to plan ahead."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 478814,
      "EditedText": "I am aware of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 478820,
      "EditedText": "I think that I tackled that in Mr Campbell's question, but let me cover both points. If there was a taper, and the scheme operated by way of allowances, such problems would not occur. I have seen a proposal whereby firms with a rateable value of less than £5,000 pay 50 per cent of their established rates. If a firm wanted to move to premises that had a rateable value of £6,000, it would not qualify for that 50 per cent reduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 478823,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 478825,
      "EditedText": "Yes, if the business moved into premises the size of Marks and Spencer. Presumably, in a tapered scheme in which any increase in the rates was gradual, the firm would grow gradually. I cannot understand the poverty trap argument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 478827,
      "EditedText": "Would all firms be eligible for your suggested scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 478832,
      "EditedText": "You have raised the important issue of increased rents. We asked the assessors about that. They took a slightly different view, although they conceded that your example of enterprise zones was correct.You seem to have great faith in the market system of rents and rates and you seem to suggest that any distortion of that system would be wicked. How can you persuade me that the market system works? When I was a councillor, it never worked in my ward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 478835,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, not many of our members are landlords. Experience has shown us that rents increase as sites become more attractive for businesses. That is not a hypothesis; it is reality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 478847,
      "EditedText": "I want to share my experience with the committee. When the money is needed, the bank does not give it. I remember when I set up my own business. The cost of rates that was inflicted on my business—and I use the word inflicted meaningfully—put me under pressure. Things have moved on considerably. I own a business that has more than 50 employees, and—although I should say this quietly—the rates are no longer a consideration, due to the size of the business. Have you surveyed your members to determine how many are paying 25 or 30 per cent of their perceived profit on rates?What would your greater membership think about having a burden of 25 per cent of their profits imposed on them? How many of them would last the pace? Much depends on the size of the business; some might have to pay 5 per cent of their profit, whereas others might have to pay 25 per cent. That difference is a problem for business in Scotland that must be addressed. From your paper, the CBI's message seems to be, \"I'm all right, Jack.\" The greater number of businesses in Scotland are small businesses and they need help. How do you square the circle?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 478850,
      "EditedText": "With respect, convener, I thought I had answered that question. We do care about small firms. I have said so several times during this discussion. A large proportion of our members are small firms. However, we must act on the basis of the concerns that are relayed to us. I repeat; we have made proposals to the chancellor about the changes that he could make to the fiscal environment to help small firms. I do not accept for one minute that we do not have a kindly attitude to small firms or that we are not in the business of helping them. How we help goes back to why rates take up such a high proportion of a small firm's turnover. The example of the one-man business has been mentioned. Are you suggesting, Mr Paterson, that it is possible that a one-man or a small business simply may not be able to generate the turnover per square metre of property that a large firm can? If so, that goes back to the fundamental issue of a property tax, which may be the issue that needs to be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 478854,
      "EditedText": "Let us say 20 per cent then, to make it easier for you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 478860,
      "EditedText": "You also told us that you are aware that problems exist but you are not prepared to analyse them. You are not representing your members if they have to wait until their screams are loud enough before you make a judgment. However, you want us to make a judgment on your presentation that the status quo is acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 478864,
      "EditedText": "The overall effect is almost impossible to predict. It would depend on whether the cost to medium and large businesses affected their break-even point or their return on investment hurdles. We cannot advise you on that; if we could, we would. I emphasise that if we thought that some of the proposals would work in favour of small businesses, we would support them. However, for the reasons that we have given, we think that the proposals are flawed. That is why we are making our points to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 478866,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 478869,
      "EditedText": "No. I am asking, if there were a 3.5 per cent increase in rates for all those businesses with a rateable value higher than £7,500 to compensate for reductions below that value, what the impact would be on rent levels."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 478874,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the rates of the larger properties would not be getting pushed up by anything like the percentage of the reduction for smaller properties. Therefore the effect on medium premises would still be much less, because it would be spread over a much wider estate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 478875,
      "EditedText": "Surely that is an argument for rates relief for smaller businesses? You have just said that the burden on larger businesses would be smaller."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 478877,
      "EditedText": "You have specifically talked about enterprise zones, where rents are reduced to suck in businesses. What would be the effect on rent levels across the rest of Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 478878,
      "EditedText": "We used enterprise zones as a practical example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 478882,
      "EditedText": "There is some need for mutual clarification. When you were talking about the band floor and huge increases in rates, I suggested a tapering or sliding scale, such as national insurance has. Later on, I had the feeling that you were specifically addressing national insurance, which was not what I intended. I was suggesting a sliding scale so that there would be a smooth transition as rateable values increased."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 478884,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. We would be very happy to return and meet with the committee again, if necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478888",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 478888,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we can do all of that in one morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ContributionID": 478893,
      "EditedText": "Craig, can you deal with this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Harper (Assistant Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 571.0,
      "ContributionID": 478894,
      "EditedText": "I will send round an e-mail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 575.0,
      "ContributionID": 478896,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I agree, but will we still have enough time to scrutinise effectively the ethical standards in public life bill? Do we know when we are likely to be able to have a look at that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 585.0,
      "ContributionID": 478901,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 593.0,
      "ContributionID": 478905,
      "EditedText": "They are taking things to extremes, are they not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 595.0,
      "ContributionID": 478906,
      "EditedText": "I am just running the thought past you. I agree that it is absolute madness, it is crazy. However, the issue is serious enough for it to be looked into. I hope that Eugene will come back to us on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 597.0,
      "ContributionID": 478907,
      "EditedText": "Is Donald Gorrie going to say a few words?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 605.0,
      "ContributionID": 478911,
      "EditedText": "The only speech that he can remember is his own."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 621.0,
      "ContributionID": 478919,
      "EditedText": "That was a good point from my esteemed colleague and room-mate. Another thing is whether we will have the opportunity to question the Executive again on this matter. A number of organisations appear to have received this paper from the Executive, but we did not. We have therefore not been able to ask the pertinent questions that we would have done if we had had the paper a couple of days ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 478656,
      "EditedText": "We have not yet seen that paper, but that seems to demonstrate that the Government accepts that bigger businesses pay proportionately less in business rates than small businesses. We must find out how to remedy that.In your earlier comments, you drew a distinction between the cost of administering a scheme of rates relief that has 50 per cent and 25 per cent as the two multiplicands, and the cost of administering a scheme that has a far greater tapering effect with percentage blocks of 5 per cent or 10 per cent going from 50 per cent down to 5 per cent, which would deal with the points raised by Mr Gibson and Mr Paterson about removing the £600 threshold penalty between £5,000 and £5,001. Given that the scheme will be administered by computer by the directors of finance, would it make any difference to the computer whether only two multiplicands were input or whether 10, 15 or 20 were input?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 478752,
      "EditedText": "It would have been helpful to receive this earlier with the papers that other organisations managed to circulate, especially as it is a long paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 478758,
      "EditedText": "I thank the gentlemen from the Scottish Executive for their presentation, which I found extremely helpful. The SNP has been campaigning for about a decade and a half for the Labour party to take on board the case for justice for small businesses. Judging by today's announcement that the minister is considering whether to consult on the matter, I am delighted that, at long last, it seems to have accepted that principle. I note that the slide says that he is considering whether to consult—not considering whether to consider it—but I shall leave that issue for another time.Does the Executive accept the position that even the CBI, in its submissions to this committee, accepts—that the burden on small business in Scotland is substantially greater, in terms of the rates bills that those businesses pay for their premises, than the burden on the larger businesses in Scotland? The CBI estimates that that disparity can be as much as 1000 per cent. Does the Executive accept that that is a serious problem? One can argue whether the figure is three, four, five or 10 times as much. However, we must solve the problem for small business in Scotland. We would be delighted if the solution were to derive imminently from well thought out proposals from the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 478760,
      "EditedText": "One point that concerns me is the timetable. In your presentation, you stated that the poundage and various other matters, such as transitional relief, must be decided in the next month or so. I raised the issue of revaluation many times in the parliamentary business bulletin back in June. Why did the Executive leave it such a long time before it decided whether to consult? In particular, when did the consultation with business, to which you referred just a minute ago, actually begin?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 478834,
      "EditedText": "The logic that I have heard seems to be that you accept that small businesses have a higher burden of business rates than larger businesses do, but that you do not think that anything should be done about it. It seems unusual that the CBI should send a message to small businesses saying, \"High tax is good for you.\"You have put forward some specific reasons for your rather dubious proposition. You state that market forces will apply. Your paper also states:\"We also believe there is a serious risk that landlords would take much of the benefit intended for small firms.\"If this scheme or a similar one were introduced, and a small business that now pays around £3,000 were paying around £2,500, do you envisage that the landlord would snap up that £500? Which one of your members will snap up that £500?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:17.5244413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 478836,
      "EditedText": "Let us consider Scotland. From my experience working in property, I know that a lot of the properties in which small businesses are based are owned. Your argument does not apply to them because the small business is the owner of the property. A larger proportion of small business occupies properties on long leases. Your argument does not apply to them either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:17.5244413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 478840,
      "EditedText": "You have repeatedly referred to evidence. If you have any evidence, perhaps the committee could receive it from you. My second objection is to your claim that a small business that is doing well and decides to move to another office or shop will be put off by higher costs. Any sensible business people, regardless of the size of their firm, work out the costs of moving before they decide to move. Your argument is therefore completely irrelevant to the issue that we are considering today. No business person in his or her right mind would decide to move to a property that he or she could not afford."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:17.5244413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 609.0,
      "ContributionID": 478913,
      "EditedText": "Convener, can you confirm that the discussion on rates revaluation will be on 10 November?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:17.5244413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 478635,
      "EditedText": "How would your scheme impact on chains of small businesses, which might each employ two or three people? They might be in a dozen property locations in a local authority area, but be part of one company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 478633,
      "EditedText": "People such as the assessors have written to say that they are not unsympathetic to your point, but that they think that a clear cut-off point raises problems, in that many of the people whose rateable value is more than £5,001 would appeal. If, with advice from other people, we could devise a more gradual scheme that met the same objectives, would you be happy to go along with it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 478636,
      "EditedText": "The difference between appendix A and appendix B illustrates that problem. I arbitrarily elected to take out advertising hoardings. The reason for that was that most advertising hoardings will fall into a category of below £5,000 rateable value, but are certainly not occupied by a small business. Most are occupied by major plcs, which derive a pretty good income. No system will ever be perfect, but the drafters of any legislation much take into account the categories of properties. They are not defined—I am sure that the assessors will advise on this—in valuation law. Hidden codes are there, however, and I think that they could be used. There needs to be an in-depth examination of the classes and categories. Committee members can see that 1,512 commercial hotels are entered in appendix C of our document. I am not suggesting that that means that 1,512 hotels in the sample area are below £5,000 rateable value. The figure probably includes many bed-and-breakfast establishments. They will be owner-occupied, and will be trying to encourage tourism. I think that they benefit—and should benefit. It is important to examine those cases in more depth. The whole purpose was to produce a sample with some meaning and substance, and which showed the number of properties and the cost of producing relief. That had never been done before. Anecdotal evidence was relied on more, and nobody had a handle on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 478638,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty with setting any threshold and with any relief scheme is that there will be people at the margins who will be upset. That is the case with council tax banding for houses. I am sure that the Scottish Assessors Association can produce statistics on people at the band edges who appeal. Valuation of properties, from £5 to £5 million, is done pretty exactly. The ratepayer has a right of appeal. There is no doubt that a ratepayer with a revaluation of £5,500—if the scheme came into operation—would appeal. The ratepayer with a business at £4,900 rateable value might not. That is a right that ratepayers have, and nobody is taking it away from them. The idea of phasing in the 25 per cent relief at £5,001 to £7,500 takes away the sudden guillotine effect of 50 per cent relief or no relief, but if one starts to tinker with that, on increments of 10 or 5 per cent—which one could easily do—it becomes a complex system to administer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 478639,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 4.5 in the Scottish Executive's consultation paper, \"Non-Domestic Rates—Transitional Arrangements: Scotland\", gives some percentages on transitional relief. I recommend that the committee consider the paper, as it talks about relief of 10 per cent, 7.5 per cent, 5 per cent, up to 15 per cent, 30 per cent and 35 per cent. No one has understood the system of percentages for relief for businesses; it is not directing the benefit to small businesses. We are in the process of simplifying a complicated system—we might not make it perfect, but it will be far better than what we have now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 478641,
      "EditedText": "Would that mean that someone with a valuation of £4,999 would pay £1,200, while someone with a valuation of £5,001 would pay £1,800? You should not say that they could appeal, as their appeal might fail. It is a disincentive for companies to grow, if an extra few pounds in valuation means that they will have a whopping great increase in the rates that they pay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 478642,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to benefit small businesses. There are issues concerning the threshold; in that case, whether a business qualifies for the 50 per cent relief. However, as John Sharp says, people have the right of appeal. If we direct the benefit to those companies and they are increasing their profits, they are gaining more money to pay the bills. No scheme will be perfect, but 47 per cent of small businesses in Scotland will get relief. However, there are businesses in the high streets of Glasgow or Edinburgh that are paying £50,000 on their rents. If businesses want to be on the Royal Mile and pay £50,000, that is entirely up to them. The new Sock Shop in Waverley station will pay a £25,000 rental for that small property. We have taken that point on board, but businesses over the £5,000 level are not benefiting at the moment. We believe that, by bringing the threshold up to £7,500, they will benefit as they continue to grow. We are giving them the benefit at the base cost level to grow, when their rateable value is under £5,000, so that when the rateable value increases, it is much easier for them to start paying those bills."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 478644,
      "EditedText": "As I said in the letter that we sent to Jack McConnell, one of the key considerations is fairness to all business rate payers. Considering the economic conditions, we do not want to put an increased burden on medium-sized and larger companies. The Scottish Executive might in the end want to make that decision. We believe that we need to be fair to all business rate payers and bring in the issue of affordability, and that paying the £46 million direct is the best option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 478649,
      "EditedText": "Some small businesses are landlords. Do you want to see rents connected to revaluation? Those who are landlords would want to see a connection between revaluation of rents and the rates that they pay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 478651,
      "EditedText": "I would like to declare an interest on two points. First, I was responsible for taking the Government to the European Court of Human Rights because of a rates disparity. I have had a keen interest in rates since then. I also own a business, and this debate might affect the amount of rates that I pay, although I have a feeling that the effect will be adverse. The business is spread throughout Scotland.I am in favour of helping small businesses, and would like to say something connected to the question that Kenny Gibson asked. Could the narrow banded system that you have be expanded? There is disquiet in some small businesses because of the amount of their profits that goes towards paying rates. The amount of rates that some large businesses pay is not significant, so perhaps the burden could be shifted away from small businesses. Some of them are on a cliff edge, which they might fall off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 478652,
      "EditedText": "In the last two revaluations, the Scottish Office decided that small businesses with a rateable value of less than £10,000 should get a certain percentage of relief. That £10,000 defined the difference between small and large businesses. This year, the figure will be £12,000.When we did our initial analysis, we found that there was a fine line between helping as many small businesses as possible and helping national chains that have small retail outlets. They tended to have a rateable value of just over £7,500.We decided that helping 47 per cent of the smallest owner-occupier businesses was the best option. We could expand the scheme, but that would cost more. The option that we are suggesting could be tweaked, but the valuation figures would have to be examined carefully, to establish how many more businesses that would bring in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 478659,
      "EditedText": "No. The idea exists already in domestic rating, and there is council tax banding. The issue is simply one of administration and of clarifying the rates demand, which could be done. Mr Gibson made the point, which I take on board, that if you have a threshold scheme with 50 per cent and then 25 per cent relief, the answer may be to have a slicing arrangement—as there is with income tax. That would certainly ensure equality: at a threshold, or just over a threshold, there would not be an increase in payments.These are all matters of fine tuning. The principle is perhaps different from any previous approach to relief."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 478660,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to the point that Michael McMahon raised about the means of funding your proposals. You have suggested two options: one in which there is a differential rate for larger businesses; another in which the Scottish Executive provides the funds directly. How did you balance your thoughts in coming to the conclusion that the Scottish Executive should fund the proposal?In your answer to Michael McMahon, you suggested the potential for increasing taxation in other areas. By that, did you mean that increased taxation would be generated as a result of business growth over the years, or did you mean that there should be increases in personal taxation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 478661,
      "EditedText": "We are saying that if small businesses are growing, increasing their turnover and profits, and taking on more staff, there will be more income for the Exchequer from taxes. That income will come from the businesses and from the people who work for them, through personal taxation. That is a long-term issue that should be considered. As John Sharp said, the scheme that we have designed is fairly simple and delivers direct benefit. We had discussions on the issue of larger companies. As the Scottish Executive paper says, they can afford to pay these bills.You asked about balance. We looked at the figures for transitional relief for the past five years. In total, we are paying £437.2 million. That came from the business rates paid by Scottish business. We are saying that the Executive is using the income from the rates to pay for the relief scheme. We are suggesting that it should pay that money directly rather than by using the tapered transitional relief scheme.The figures that the Scottish Executive came out with in its consultation paper this morning were neutral. The Executive does not want to increase tax for larger companies, but it does not want small companies to benefit, so there is no benefit for anyone. We are suggesting that for a relatively low cost we could foster economic growth that will benefit Scotland in the next five to 10 years. We can afford that cost. We have to balance things and make a decision. What do we want? Do we want more jobs and businesses? That will not happen without help. Businesses need help to grow from small to medium to large. Someone will have to pay for that help, and our view, on balance, is that it would be better for that help to come from the Executive, directly from the Scottish block, rather than from larger companies. Larger companies are under pressure. In the past six months, many large companies have gone under."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 478663,
      "EditedText": "The figures that were issued today by the Scottish Executive show that the effective revaluation will be about 13 per cent. That suggests that the uniform business rate will be reduced by 13 per cent, which is not significant compared with a ratepayer with a static rateable value. If the transitional relief proposal is that a ratepayer whose value decreases should not benefit, but should subsidise a ratepayer whose rateable value has risen—I am not in favour of that—the benefit will not be reaped by the small business whose rateable value has decreased unless a scheme such as this is implemented."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 478665,
      "EditedText": "I think that any property that has a rateable value of £7,500 or less—particularly if that value is £5,000 or less—must be a poor type of property. If a pub, hotel, guest house or shop has a rateable value of £5,000, it must be pretty small. It will not be occupied by a branch of the Woolwich or a Thorntons sweetie shop. It will not be a public limited company; it will be a small business indeed. I do not think that the effective revaluation will push many more businesses in that direction. I fully accept that the high streets will show a much higher increase than the 13 per cent that has been indicated, that a lot of properties will remain static, and that the figure for some will be reduced, but not many will experience a significant reduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 478667,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C478674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 478674,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the association's comments have focused on the submission made by the Federation of Small Businesses. Legitimate points were raised, but I will now raise wider issues.Does the Scottish Assessors Association recognise the concerns that have been expressed by the FSB about business rates and the disparities that exist between properties? Is the general view of the association that the current system and the approach to the revaluation raise no issues of public concern?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 478678,
      "EditedText": "In the previous presentation that we had from the FSB, it seemed to be keen to differentiate between multiples and owner-occupiers. In terms of the transitional arrangements, is there any way of getting information from the businesses' annual returns to assist in the evaluation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 478687,
      "EditedText": "Contrary to what John Sharp said, assessors live in the 20th century and we use methods other than pen and paper, although not all of us have super-duper computer systems—we are all funded by local government—and we do calculations with pen and paper at the end.We could provide statistics on the value of out-of-town developments, rural developments and other properties. All the valuation rolls are compiled geographically anyway and localities can be easily identified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 478694,
      "EditedText": "Our experience with the council tax suggests that we would still get plenty of appeals at the boundaries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 478696,
      "EditedText": "The First Minister's powers are wide-ranging. He can prescribe the way in which we arrive at the valuations and the difference between net annual value and rateable value, as has happened in the past with petro-chemicals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 478697,
      "EditedText": "What do you think is the impact on rates of the 50 per cent subsidy that is given to empty properties? Do you think that that has the effect of artificially keeping rate levels high? To what extent does the policy impact on businesses that do not have empty properties?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 478698,
      "EditedText": "From the assessors' point of view the empty rates have become a nuisance. When the property was vacant, people were loth to lodge a valuation appeal. When the property became occupied, the new tenant had a right of appeal. Now that the owners have a liability, they pursue appeals on rates on empty properties.There is insufficient evidence to allow us to say whether that affects the market. There is anecdotal evidence that, at least south of the border, people are offering properties for little or no rent to avoid the landlord's empty rate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 478703,
      "EditedText": "My understanding was that the problem that I was talking about was an issue in Edinburgh. I am reassured by your suggestion that it is not a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 478706,
      "EditedText": "Other people are arguing for 100 per cent relief, based on your argument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 478707,
      "EditedText": "Yes. In the case of small shops, the bigger problem is when an owner is liable for rates on a property from which they cannot possibly derive an income."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 478716,
      "EditedText": "Swings and roundabouts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 478731,
      "EditedText": "I do not know if the representatives are free next week. Would it be possible to circulate their submission beforehand and ask the assessors and others to comment on it by next week? We could then have a short meeting with the Forum of Private Business in the light of any comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 478733,
      "EditedText": "I agree. If we are to deal with the Forum of Private Business next week, could we also deal with Mr McConnell's paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 478736,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that the Forum of Private Business should attend next week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gerry Dowds (Forum of Private Business): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 478738,
      "EditedText": "We have been asked to give a submission to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee on 10 November. Does this committee meet at the same time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 478739,
      "EditedText": "Yes. You would have to move between the meetings. We will deal with this housekeeping business later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 478741,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are seeing the consortium. We will sort out dates and times later. If there are no more questions for the assessors, I thank them for coming. We have landed you in it again, as you will be receiving a paper from the Forum of Private Business. It would be helpful if you could give us written comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 478748,
      "EditedText": "Good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 478749,
      "EditedText": "When did you say that the consultation document was published?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 478751,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I shall take that up elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 478756,
      "EditedText": "I have a question for you, convener. Are we asking questions today on the slides, on the paper that was circulated earlier and on the paper that was circulated today, or just on the first two?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 478757,
      "EditedText": "Probably only on the first two. Members can ask questions on the presentation and have already been able to read the first paper. However, as Fergus has rightly pointed out, the other paper arrived rather late. We will examine that later as a housekeeping matter and perhaps add the second paper to the agenda for the next meeting. I do not expect members to read something quickly and be prepared to ask questions on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 478765,
      "EditedText": "There was some detail in the FSB's presentation about the change in the threshold. The focus of the FSB's argument may have been too narrow; the implications are far wider than has been indicated. Would that be a fair comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 478766,
      "EditedText": "Are you talking about the paper presentation or about the presentation that you heard today? I did not hear today's presentation, so I am somewhat at a disadvantage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 478767,
      "EditedText": "I meant the paper one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 478768,
      "EditedText": "We would like to look at the impact across the whole system of the proposals in the FSB's paper. There are implications for the way in which councils manage the local government finance settlement for our assessors and for the courts and the Lands Tribunal for Scotland. All the implications of any proposed scheme would have to be examined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 478770,
      "EditedText": "We can supply that information for you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 478777,
      "EditedText": "That is an interesting question. I need hardly explain that the order was introduced because ministers took the view that there were particular problems in rural areas that needed to be addressed. As an official, I can say that the scheme seems to have worked very well and has been favourably received in most rural areas"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 478784,
      "EditedText": "If people are still under transitional relief when the new lot of rates comes in, the existing system for avoiding turbulence is not good. We should think out a better system to help to reduce turbulence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 478790,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 478793,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Do committee members have any questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 478799,
      "EditedText": "We have a sliding scale for things such as national insurance payments, which are worked out with tables. I assume that it would be possible to have an equivalent system for rates. That would overcome the band flaws."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 478802,
      "EditedText": "That would work much better. National insurance and the income tax system work like that. National insurance used not to work like that, and, because it operated on a banding system, it created the poverty trap. Our concern is that the proposal would create a corporate poverty trap.A sliding scale is a possibility, but it would cost the Exchequer an awful lot of money. For that reason, I do not know whether it would be a runner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth (Confederation of British Industry Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 478803,
      "EditedText": "It would certainly cost a lot more than £46.5 million, as that figure applies only to small businesses. The scheme that you are proposing would benefit all businesses, so it would be quite expensive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 478806,
      "EditedText": "If an organisation represents larger firms, I imagine that it would prefer the existing system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 478808,
      "EditedText": "Have you any empirical evidence that suggests that there is an optimum level of rates that could be imposed that would benefit large and small businesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 478809,
      "EditedText": "We have not carried out that research for the reasons that Iain McMillan outlined. The members of CBI Scotland have not called for that to be done. A lot more could be done to improve growth in small firms, such as providing capital allowances and giving tax credits for research and development. Small firms can develop and become medium-sized firms. That is an avenue that should be looked at more closely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 478810,
      "EditedText": "If that is the case, why did a recent survey by the Forum of Private Business indicate that rates reform was the No 1 issue for 87 per cent of its members? The CBI seems to think that rates are not an issue and that they are not a burden."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 478815,
      "EditedText": "I will try to deal with each of them.You asked what proportion of our membership is small firms, but I am not able to tell you that, because a good chunk of our membership comprises trade associations. Their members are affiliate members of the CBI, and we have never counted how many are large or small firms.For example, the Scotch Whisky Association mainly represents large firms, whereas the Electrical Contractors Association of Scotland represents a range of firms. Although I cannot answer that question, I can say that, under the rules, 25 per cent of the council of CBI Scotland, which is mainly elected by the members, is made up of representatives of small firms.The other question was about targeting help to small firms. I said earlier that help can be given in other areas of the taxation system outwith the rates. We have recently handed in a budget submission that calls for permanent capital allowances, changes to the capital gains tax structure and other forms of tax relief. Perhaps that would be a better route, as any action that distorted a market-based system of property tax might rebound on us. Market forces could reverse any changes that were made.I must apologise—I cannot remember the other question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 478816,
      "EditedText": "I wondered whether help might also be targeted at people who made plans on the basis that they would receive rates relief."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 478819,
      "EditedText": "The same sort of arguments were advanced in favour of the window tax some time ago. None of us wants to do anything that would harm small businesses. I am interested in your argument that there would be a poverty trap. How would a graduated scheme in which—for the sake of argument—a rateable value below £5,000 receives 50 per cent relief, below £5,500 receives 45 per cent relief and below £6,000 receives 40 per cent and so on, discourage firms from growing? The increased rates would be relatively small. Surely it is better to encourage businesses to grow and then they will be able to pay the increased rates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 478821,
      "EditedText": "What I am suggesting is that the business would qualify for 40 per cent and that the difference would not be a big inhibition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 478826,
      "EditedText": "It depends on how many bands the scheme has and the slope at which they are graduated. It might work, but we would need to see what was proposed in order to assess that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 478828,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to explore a sensible system. In your view there are flaws in the schemes that are being suggested. I am unimpressed by that, but I would like to be fair, and understand why you think that they are flaws."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 478831,
      "EditedText": "In the enterprise zones for similar schemes, experience has shown that landlords increased the rent to fill the gap. Market forces have made such areas more attractive places to be based, which has led to rent increases. It is not quite as easy as saying, \"Let us reduce the rates and that will reduce the burden for small firms.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 478837,
      "EditedText": "It might affect them if they are selling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 478839,
      "EditedText": "It has happened with rate relief schemes that have been tried in enterprise zones. It is easy to produce a scheme without evidence to back it up, but there is evidence that that has happened in enterprise zones across the UK."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 478841,
      "EditedText": "That was not the point that I was making. Your argument is that the changes would apply only to rents and that they would not apply where the heritable property is owned. My point is that when a small businessman wants to sell a property, the value of the heritage could be higher for exactly the same reason as the value of the rental could be higher. I do not accept your counter-argument.Your point is that we accept that the rates burden on smaller firms is greater, but are not prepared to offer any suggestions of how that could be improved. I made clear in my opening remarks that we accepted that, but that we did not know why that was happening. I doubt that you know either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 478843,
      "EditedText": "We did not say that. We are not proposing a new act of the Scottish Parliament. This legislation is already on the statute book. Parliament saw fit to bring in that legislation to alleviate hardship, where it arose. We are citing that as only one example of the way in which help could be targeted at small businesses that are in distress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 478844,
      "EditedText": "As the suggested scheme would require £46.5 million from the Scottish Parliament's block grant, it is only fair that MSPs should decide from where in that block grant the money should be taken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 478848,
      "EditedText": "There was certainly no intention to adopt the tone of, \"I'm all right, Jack.\" The paper does not say that, and that was not our intention. Although that is how you interpreted it, that is not the way in which we wanted you to interpret it. I explained, earlier, that small firms make up a large part of our membership and that we care very much about their fortunes. Their fortunes must be improved on the basis of sound analysis, not conjecture. Although we accept the analysis of the high proportion of turnover and profit that is taken in the form of rates, we do not know why that happens.A survey of our members would not help. It might establish how many of them might suffer from the problem, but it would not necessarily give us an insight into why. That leads to the point about larger firms, the proportion of their profits that goes on rates and how they would feel if the proportion were as high as it is for small business. That returns us to why smaller firms suffer a larger rating burden than larger firms. We do not know why that is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 478851,
      "EditedText": "On your point about CBI Scotland's role in assisting large and small businesses, the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning set up a manufacturing strategy group four or five weeks ago, a sub-group of which will examine all the factors that affect the business environment for large and small businesses across Scotland. The sub-group includes us, the Federation of Small Businesses and other representatives of the Scottish business community. By December, it will publish its report on ideas for improving the business environment across Scotland. The report should provide some constructive solutions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 478855,
      "EditedText": "Any reduction in cost to business would be good news and would improve business performance, but other questions must be addressed, such as how sustainable such improvement would be, what other effects they would have, such as rent rises, and who would pick up the tab—other businesses or Scottish taxpayers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 478857,
      "EditedText": "We have described the characteristics of the scheme, but that is a different matter. We have not offered an analysis of those characteristics. As for \"Let them eat cake\", what you are examining is one element—small businesses' costs—of the business community's costs as a whole. We represent the business community across sectors and sizes. Employment is generated not just in small businesses, but in medium and large businesses. What needs to be done must be based on sound analysis, not on conjecture or sentiment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 478858,
      "EditedText": "But you are not prepared to make that analysis. You want to wait until your members tell you that it is needed. That is what we have tried to get across."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478859",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 478859,
      "EditedText": "But I am here to represent my members. Who else do you think I represent?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 478861,
      "EditedText": "Well, make that judgment then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 478867,
      "EditedText": "That is why I wondered what effect it would have on margins in large firms. Will you respond to my point about rates? You talked specifically about enterprise zones and how, if rates were reduced, market forces would push up rents. Is the reverse also true?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 478870,
      "EditedText": "Negligible, I imagine."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478871",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 478871,
      "EditedText": "Okay. Yet you are arguing that it would have a very large effect."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C478872",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 478872,
      "EditedText": "It would for smaller firms, because the percentage gap in the tax break would be much larger for them than it would if it were spread across the rest of the business community. That is the point we made about small firms. If the value of the rates falls, the demand for smaller properties could increase, which would increase their rental values and hence the rateable values or, in some cases, the value of the heritable property."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 529.0,
      "ContributionID": 478873,
      "EditedText": "Surely, if rateable values had such a detrimental effect on large companies, we would be in the same situation? There would obviously be less demand for larger rental properties, in shopping centres, for example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 478885,
      "EditedText": "The committee has some housekeeping matters to attend to. We are running over time and are keeping the clerks behind—I do not know if they get overtime—so I would like to tidy this up quickly.The clerking arrangements for the visits are as follows: Craig and Eugene will both go to Glasgow; Craig will go to Clackmannanshire; Eugene to East Renfrewshire; Craig to Aberdeen; and Eugene to Perth and Kinross. We think that that is the best way to do it.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ContributionID": 478892,
      "EditedText": "Convener, it looks as though I will not be able to go to East Lothian Council on 15 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 577.0,
      "ContributionID": 478897,
      "EditedText": "I will come on to that.The agenda for 24 November was to get reports back from meetings; it may also include some discussion about what has happened today and what will have happened next week. There is space on that agenda, and there is space on the agenda for the meeting on 8 December. We are aware that the bill is coming up, so the meetings on 24 November and 8 December have got soft agendas, so to speak. We are not going to pack those agendas, because we may need the time to consider the bill.Do members want a briefing on the legislative procedure for going through a bill? Obviously, I exclude Donald Gorrie from that, because he is an expert."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 581.0,
      "ContributionID": 478899,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would be helpful to have a briefing.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 587.0,
      "ContributionID": 478902,
      "EditedText": "All right. We will do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 601.0,
      "ContributionID": 478909,
      "EditedText": "On what?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 611.0,
      "ContributionID": 478914,
      "EditedText": "We will listen to the other two presentations and then consider the time. Professor Curtice is invited too. If there is no time, we will move it on to the next meeting but one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 623.0,
      "ContributionID": 478920,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. I will make that clear to the Executive. I have been told by someone at the Executive that we are not on a mailing list that he thought we were on. That will be cleared up. However, this is the second or third time that this has happened, and people from the Executive have appeared and said that they would speak to a particular paper that we have not received. I will take up that issue.To answer Kenny's question, yes, it could be that, if we wished to question the Executive, we could invite people back. Leave that with Eugene and me. It may need to be put back by another week, because Professor Curtice is coming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 625.0,
      "ContributionID": 478921,
      "EditedText": "I just happen to have here a few admission forms for the CBI, if anyone would like to join. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 627.0,
      "ContributionID": 478922,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there will be any takers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 478654,
      "EditedText": "I commend the Federation of Small Businesses on the work that has gone into these substantial and useful proposals. The SNP is keen that there should be a workable scheme to help small businesses in Scotland deal with the discrimination that is mentioned in the FSB's opening remarks. Small businesses pay perhaps five to 10 times as much in rates as do larger businesses. If the Executive comes up with no scheme to help small business, but does come up with a scheme for transitional relief, would that level of discrimination against small business be affected in any way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 478691,
      "EditedText": "I was encouraged to hear that the degree of sophistication of the valuation roll administered by the estimable assessors is such that a slightly more complicated scheme than the scheme that the Federation of Small Businesses told us about today could be coped with. The FSB recommended a scheme whereby there would be 50 per cent relief up to a rateable value of £5,000 and 25 per cent relief from £5,000 to £7,500.Without suggesting that this is SNP policy, I must say that it seems to me that there could be 50 per cent relief up to a rateable value of £5,000, 45 per cent relief up to £6,000, 40 per cent relief up to £7,000 and so on, in a stepped system. In that case, the second of your objections—that the system would create appeals—would no longer apply because the amount that people would save by a successful appeal would be so small as to be de minimis.Do you think that that tapered system, which would involve reducing the amount of relief as the rateable value increases, could be administered easily simply by using a more sophisticated computer programme than would be required for the scheme that was proposed by the Federation of Small Businesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 478693,
      "EditedText": "And your second objection would not apply?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 478726,
      "EditedText": "Convener, would it be in order to raise a general point? I understand that there are two representatives of the Forum of Private Business here today. I have received a detailed paper from the forum, which proposes an alternative method for providing help to small businesses. I hope that I am not stepping on any procedural toes, but given that they are here today and that they have well-thought-through proposals, I would like to hear their evidence. Would that be possible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 478737,
      "EditedText": "We should check that Mr Anderson and Mr Dowds are available next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 478838,
      "EditedText": "Your argument could apply only to the relatively small proportion of properties for which the existing tenure expires and there are negotiations about a new lease, or to leases of new hereditaments. You assume that market forces will somehow rub out any small gain that small businesses might make. What evidence do you have for that extraordinary proposition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:17.5244413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 478842,
      "EditedText": "Well, I do know some reasons. However, you are talking about the suggestions that you have made. One of them is that local government should bail out small business, under section 156 of the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994. In the CBI's opinion, which budget lines should be scrapped to help reduce the unfair burden on small business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:17.5244413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 478845,
      "EditedText": "That is undoubtedly true. We have accepted that small businesses have relatively higher business rates. You accept that and have said that that is not of concern to your members. Has there been any consultation with your members on the proposition that there should be a scheme to help small businesses with their rates? If not, are you proposing to implement such a scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:17.5244413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 478620,
      "EditedText": "I will declare an interest on behalf of my colleague Gil Paterson, who should be here any minute, if you want to move on, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 478621,
      "EditedText": "I will remember that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 478622,
      "EditedText": "I should probably declare that I am a shareholder in a small business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 478625,
      "EditedText": "I was going to be facetious, but I will not bother."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 478626,
      "EditedText": "My personal assistant also has a small business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 478627,
      "EditedText": "Bristow, you do not own a small business, do you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 478629,
      "EditedText": "Before we continue, I welcome John Swinney and Fergus Ewing, who are here as members of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. As this is a new Parliament, MSPs can attend any committee meeting to ask questions, and John and Fergus have chosen to come along today. I certainly have no objection to their being here. If they wish to ask questions, they will be allowed to do so.The procedure is that once the presentation is over, members should indicate that they want to speak. They will be allowed a question and a quick supplementary, but if the supplementary question wanders all over the place, I shall bring the member back to order. The issue will then be opened for wider debate.I welcome John Downie and John Sharp from the Federation of Small Businesses. They will give a presentation, after which we will ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 478634,
      "EditedText": "We would be concerned about the administration of the scheme. We would want it to be kept as simple as possible, to deliver benefits to small businesses. There are thresholds, exemptions and allowances for all forms of taxation, whether personal or business.If we use the argument of the threshold, it is like saying that nobody wants to earn over £26,100 because they start paying 40 per cent tax. There will be a threshold for every form of relief that has been introduced. Forty-seven per cent of small business are under £7,500 rateable value. Once a business has reached that stage, it will have had the benefit and help to grow. It will get increased turnover and increased profits. The majority of those with businesses below £7,500 rateable value are owner-occupiers. They do not have the problem of increased rents for larger premises. It may be that, instead of buying bigger premises, they simply buy second premises, and continue to receive relief on two properties. There are options, but we do not feel that a threshold is a major problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie (Federation of Small Businesses): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 478630,
      "EditedText": "We intend to give a 10-minute run-through of our proposals for a small business rates relief scheme. I hope that you all received copies of our paper from the clerk on Friday. We thought it best if you questioned us on all aspects of the scheme.If there is one issue that unites small businesses throughout Scotland, it is business rates. On average, small businesses pay 10 times more in business rates than larger businesses in terms of profit and turnover. As a percentage of overheads, small businesses pay 13.7 per cent in business rates, compared with 3 per cent for large companies.That is the main reason why we have proposed a small business rates relief scheme. We believe that it is imperative that a scheme be put in place to assist the smallest businesses in Scotland, and to foster economic growth.We want to remove a disproportionate rates burden for small companies. Thirteen per cent of overheads is a major burden on small firms. That burden helps to stop economic growth in all sectors, but particularly in rural and remote communities, where it is felt even more. The tourism industry in the Highlands and Islands, the Borders, and Dumfries and Galloway has a short season, so small businesses there suffer very much under the burden of business rates.Some months ago, the federation commissioned John Sharp, who is the senior partner in Graham and Sibbald, to investigate business rates, so that we had meaningful figures on which to base any proposal. Until then, it was difficult to get information on the detail of the business rate. It is available on microfiche—I must compliment the assessors department, which has given us the available information for us to assess. To ensure that we had a cross-section of businesses in cities, towns and the country, John analysed Fife, Ayr, Central Scotland, Lothians and Grampian. That analysis gave us the basis to put forward a proposal that considered businesses in town centres, in cities, and, in particular, in rural and remote communities, which need help most.We do not want to get into an argument on the current basis of the tax. The federation will make representations on that next year, when we will be working on serious proposals for the new system of business rates. Our policy has always been to scrap the present system and to have one that is based on the ability to pay. We do not have time to do that before the revaluation.Our conclusion from John's analysis was that 36.5 per cent of businesses throughout Scotland had a rateable value of less than £5,000. That clearly identifies the smallest businesses and the ones with potential to grow.In 1997-98, Scottish business paid £1.327 billion in business rates. Based on the figure of 36.5 per cent, there are two options for introducing a rates relief scheme. We can increase the business rates for businesses with rateable values of more than £5,000, or the scheme could be paid for directly by the Scottish Executive. The cost for the first, basic part of the scheme would be £26.54 million.In our second, and preferred, option, if there were an additional relief band giving relief to all properties with rateable values between £5,001 to £7,500, the number of businesses getting relief would be increased from 36.5 per cent to 47.1 per cent—nearly 50 per cent of the businesses in Scotland have a rateable value of less than £7,500.There are two options for paying for such a scheme: business rates for businesses with a rateable value of more than £7,500 could be increased or the scheme could be paid for directly by the Scottish Executive, at a cost of £46.5 million in the first year. During the past five years, the Scottish Executive, and before it the Scottish Office, has paid £437 million in transitional relief, including £57 million in 1995-96 and £40 million this year. This morning, the Federation of Small Businesses received, as committee members may have done, a copy of the non-domestic rates transitional arrangements for Scotland, which points out that one fifth of businesses in Scotland still receive transitional relief. If we continue with the present transitional arrangements, we will put transitional relief on top of transitional relief for some businesses, which, quite frankly, is crazy. We believe that the disproportionate burden of business rates should be removed from small businesses. Our main proposal is that all businesses with a rateable value of under £5,000 should get 50 per cent relief and that those with a value between £5,001 and £7,500 should get 25 per cent relief, paid for directly by the Scottish Executive from the Scottish block. We estimate that that will cost £46.45 million. Over five years, that is approximately £250 million, a saving of £200 million on the present transitional relief scheme. I am sure that when members question us on our scheme, transitional relief will feature heavily in our answers, because the current transitional relief scheme is not delivering benefits to small businesses. We are happy to answer questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 478631,
      "EditedText": "Hitherto, I thought that there were two separate issues: the need to avoid sudden changes in transitional relief for big and small companies and the tilting of the scheme to help smaller businesses. As I understand it, your scheme, in effect, brings the two issues together. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 478637,
      "EditedText": "On the question of how businesses near the margins are affected, my calculation from your proposal of 50 per cent relief for businesses with a valuation of up to £5,000, with a poundage of 48p, is that there would be a £1,200 reduction. Your proposal for business between £5,000 and £7,500 rateable value is 75 per cent. To clarify that, are you suggesting that, if a business is just over the margin—at £5,001 rateable value—it would pay 75 per cent, and have only a 25 per cent discount on the entire rateable value, or would it get a 50 per cent discount on the first £5,000 and a 25 per cent discount on the next £2,500?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 478643,
      "EditedText": "In the Scottish National party's manifesto, we set aside £90 million in rates relief out of the block grant, so I am fascinated to see that it could be done for just over half that sum. That would have left a bit of loose change.You mention that you could increase the business rate for businesses with a rateable value over £7,500. Are you doing that to fly a kite or as a fallback? In the end you conclude that the money should come from the block grant. Are you suggesting a fallback position?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 478650,
      "EditedText": "Many small businesses are owner-occupiers, such as small family-run newsagents. No one can argue with an assessor's valuation, so the right of appeal cannot produce the result that those ratepayers want. If a shop has a rateable value of £4,500, any reduction that could be negotiated would be minimal, although the rates burden is large in relation to the cost. At the other end of the scale, there are the Hyundais of this world, which have rates valuations of hundreds of thousands of pounds. Negotiation could result in a saving of £50,000 to them.It is all relative, and no appeal will satisfy the small business rate payer who is an owner-occupier. The tenants of those who are landlords are, however, likely to pay the rates bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 478653,
      "EditedText": "When we set off, we knew that a threshold of £10,000 had been proposed for transitional relief. A problem arises because of the number of properties that would fall into that category. The statistics were not easy to come by because, historically, a lot of the assessors' records have not been kept on CD-ROM, which is the best way of getting information for such an exercise. The records are mainly on paper or on microfiche. That may change before the revaluation exercise and data may become more easily available, but we had to start somewhere and we needed something that was credible and did not result in high costs for other ratepayers. That is why we started at £5,000 and then went up to £7,500. The system can be tinkered with around the edges but it provides a fairly strong framework for providing relief for 47 per cent of the rate-paying public at a 2 per cent cost. Where that 2 per cent cost comes from, whether from the block grant or from a 2 per cent increase in the uniform business rate, is a matter for other people to decide, but the cost is not huge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 478657,
      "EditedText": "I would love to think that it would not. The problem with calculating and understanding a rates demand with transitional relief is that there are complications when there is any kind of banding. In a revaluation year, the final date for settlement of appeals will usually be some three years later. That means that calculations go back three years through transitional relief and banding down. Having to calculate that for a client would terrify me, because understanding the demands and doing the calculations is really hard just now. An added problem for someone who is, if you like, at the coalface and has to try to understand these things, is that transitional relief changes every year. Nobody knows who is going to change it or what it is going to be. If you have different levels of TR for different levels of rateable value—or if you have banding, as you are perhaps suggesting—it will, unless it is greatly simplified, be a nightmare, and mistakes will be made. Some people—perhaps chartered accountants—will make a lot of money out of it; chartered surveyors will not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 478669,
      "EditedText": "Where enterprise zones were introduced in Scotland, no rates were payable for several years. Cases have been brought before the valuation appeal courts to urge that, at the end of enterprise zone status, there should be a material change and a down valuation in those properties.I cannot remember whether those cases were successful, but the argument is pretty spurious. I accept that any occupier of property will take cognisance of occupational costs such as rent and rates. I do not believe that at £5,000 of rateable value, which suggests an annual rent of £5,000—or £100 a week—people are that clued up. People are not plcs; they have neither balance sheets nor that degree of foresight. I constantly warn members at Federation of Small Businesses meetings that if they have just agreed a rent review at x, they can hardly appeal their rateable value at half-x. Such a perception is not prevalent in the high street multiples.Landlords will not be able to exercise pressure on occupiers who are getting 50 per cent rent relief to make them pay more rent. A lot of the properties will be owner-occupied."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 478670,
      "EditedText": "My next question somewhat veers away from what we have been talking about. We have received letters and written reports from other groups. I have a question from one such group that shall remain nameless, although you will probably know which group it is when I read its comment. Although you have already answered the group's concerns about rents, it then suggests:\"Small businesses also possibly need better advice on, for example, increasing turnover, controlling stocks and costs, including property overheads. Such advice could well achieve more than a flawed rate relief scheme\".Do you have any comments on that? I appreciate that that is quite different from the questions that have already been asked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Downie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 478671,
      "EditedText": "What that group is basically saying is that big business is better managed than small business, which is a view that I do not agree with at all. Although John Sharp runs a small business, nobody would say that his business was not as well managed as BT Scotland.How would we put such a scheme into place? At the moment, the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee is investigating business support services. We already have a multitude of schemes that are supposed to be helping businesses, but are not. Quite frankly, the point that you quoted is facetious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm (Scottish Assessors Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 478673,
      "EditedText": "I want to thank the committee for its invitation. I am the president of the of the Scottish Assessors Association, John Cardwell is the vice-president, and Bill Johnston, as the secretary, does all the hard work.Although we have provided you with a briefing note, if you will indulge me for a minute or two I will elaborate on some aspects of the association, as this is the first time we have come before a committee of the Scottish Parliament and perhaps the first time you have met an assessor in the flesh—we do exist and are not faceless bureaucrats.Each valuation authority must appoint an assessor, who must be a chartered surveyor. The duty of an assessor is to form a professional judgment, within the law, on the valuation of all rateable property—we do council tax banding as well. That judgment is subject to scrutiny by the general public and by three separate tribunals or courts—the valuation appeal panels, the Lands Tribunal for Scotland, and the Lands Valuation Appeal Court, which is an appellate division of the Court of Session.In exercising his statutory duty, the assessor is not an officer of his employing authority, but has a quasi-judicial independence, in that his opinion of value must be clear of political influence of any description. That cuts both ways, for in freeing the assessor from political direction, the elected member is freed from any responsibility for the sometimes unpopular exercise of the assessor's functions.That is the true character of what is sometimes called the assessor's independence. It is often misunderstood as characteristic of a non-accountable official, who answers only to himself. The truth is that the assessor is answerable to every individual ratepayer and council tax payer, and must uphold his actions by adhering to statute, as interpreted by the courts.By law, assessors must be members of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, but the law demands that assessors act in harmony, with uniformity of approach and method. Paradoxically, perhaps, they must defend what they do from their own analyses—largely on local evidence from within their valuation areas. The Scottish Assessors Association draws its members from assessors and deputes, and operates extensively throughout the year, by plenary session and working party. Although it is an ad hoc body, we like to think that it is widely recognised as the consultative body on matters of valuation for rating, council tax, and electoral registration.The association responds to policy as it finds its way into legislation, and endeavours to provide an independent practitioner's view of Government proposals, or proposals of organisations such as the Federation of Small Businesses. Therefore, what we say is necessarily restricted. Fortunately for the association and for me, the decision as to whether the federation's proposals are worth adopting or pursuing further lies elsewhere.My first concern is that the data on which the scheme is based are restricted. As I understand it, the detailed breakdown of the number of properties within categories of use with a rateable value of £5,000 or less has been supplied for only five of the 14 valuation areas. A more general breakdown for the whole of Scotland, excluding the Highlands and the Western Isles, was also available. An extrapolation has been made from the restricted statistics to estimate the effect of the proposal for the whole of Scotland.As I am not a statistician, I do not know whether that is statistically sound but, as a simple surveyor, I urge caution. It is our view that the sample may not be fully representative. Also, the imminent revaluation will result in new levels of value coming into effect on 1 April 2000. Perhaps you will receive a submission from a statistician that will be of assistance later.Early indications are that there will be a general increase in total Scottish rateable value of between 10 and 15 per cent. It is known that there are wide variations within categories and geographic areas. The number of properties within the proposed band and the effect that that would have on any scheme cannot be predicted accurately.The analysis on the five sets of figures relies heavily on the Ayrshire assessor's classification by description. That classification system is not used by all assessors and therefore careful consideration of the statistics would be required. If the scheme were to be adopted as policy, we suggest that it should rely on definitions rather than descriptions.Our second concern may be described by some as selfish. Experience from previous revaluations has shown that a culture exists that causes ratepayers to appeal against the figures notified by the assessor. It is thought that appeals may be lodged for around 65 per cent of properties at the forthcoming revaluation.In his letter to the Federation of Small Businesses, Mr Sharp of Graham and Sibbald states:\"The difference in rates payments between one of your members with a shop with a rateable value of £4,500 and one with a rateable value of £5,500 is going to be enormous\". That was alluded to earlier and it is our view that it can be anticipated that the level of appeal for properties close to any cut-off point will be substantial. The resultant appeal work, including negotiation, discussion and possible hearing by the valuation appeal panel, may increase substantially at this lower level of valuation. Levels of value marginally above the cut-off point will undoubtedly be closely contested.In closing, I thank you, convener, for your courtesy. I will respond to any questions that members wish to ask."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 478675,
      "EditedText": "As members of the general public, we are fully aware of what is going on, but we are constricted by the legislation as to what we can and cannot take into account. The vast majority of properties are valued on the comparative principle: a valuation based on the level of market rents, which we analyse and then apply to come up with the rateable values or net annual values of the properties.Many of the factors that affect businesses are reflected in the market itself. If something is reflected in the market, in the sense that it has a downward effect on the level of rent of one shop or public house compared with another, that will be reflected in its valuation. We cannot, for example, take into account ability to pay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 478677,
      "EditedText": "Their concerns are understood by the Assessors Association, in that we meet many of the business groupings, such as the licensed trade, self caterers and local hoteliers. Our association has a long and proud record of not putting forward any policies of our own, as we could then be seen to be favouring one group of ratepayers over another. As I said in my presentation, we are happy to respond if someone says, \"This is a suggestion that this group of ratepayers has brought forward, what do you think of it as a practitioner?\" We are perfectly happy to give our tuppenceworth, or shillingsworth, at that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 478680,
      "EditedText": "You were talking about your ability to follow up statistically what is happening with the revaluations. Is there no way of categorising businesses as either urban, city centre businesses or rural, village ones?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 478682,
      "EditedText": "I want to pursue roughly the same line of questioning as Michael McMahon. If the committee wanted to help struggling small businesses, would you advise us to adopt clear-cut definitions? You used the term definitions rather than descriptions, so that, as Michael was saying, a chemist shop might be included but not a petrol station. Alternatively, given your concern about businesses appealing to be placed below the step, do you suggest that we introduce a more tapered scheme that would take into account ability to pay as well as the size of the business? Do you want to recommend one or other of those systems?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 478684,
      "EditedText": "I asked whether there should be a tapered scheme that would avoid the need for a step and might take account of ability to pay as well as the size of the business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell (Scottish Assessors Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 478688,
      "EditedText": "The valuation system will reflect the effect that an out-of-town shopping centre will have on local shopping. The problem can affect urban areas as well as rural ones. Small shops in cities have suffered when supermarkets open and rents do not drop. That will be reflected in the next revaluation. A supermarket on the edge of a town can have a substantial effect on the levels of value in the town. The levels of value will adjust to reflect market conditions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 478689,
      "EditedText": "Superstores earn big bucks and small stores do not. I would like a political decision to be taken to shift the rates burden to the out-of-town operations. Could you provide me with relevant information?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 478701,
      "EditedText": "If a property is half-empty, only, say, £5 is raised from it instead of £10 and the other £5 has to be raised from the other businesses. I was asking about what impact the fact that properties lie empty has on other businesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 478704,
      "EditedText": "I am not aware of it being a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 478708,
      "EditedText": "Is the quinquennial nature of the revaluations sacrosanct? Would a cycle of six or seven years have a detrimental effect on businesses? Are your data on the percentage of appeals accurate enough to know whether there would be a difference if the cycle were changed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 478714,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that, if we changed to a three-year review, the three years of appeals would be dealt with during the three-year period of the revaluation? Surely an extension would help that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 478717,
      "EditedText": "Following on from the answer to a previous question and from the CBI statement, would it be sensible for us to suggest that the First Minister use his powers to instruct your staff that out-of-town shopping centres should be rated more highly, but that the sort of shops that Mr Cardwell described should be rated very low? We should try to tilt the playing field in that way rather than having a level playing field with rebates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 478718,
      "EditedText": "I would prefer to have a pure valuation roll, based on market evidence and our assessment of that evidence. If there is scope to provide assistance, that should be done through the rating system rather than through the valuation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 478719,
      "EditedText": "It would create great practical difficulties to make such a change to the valuation system. There are different levels of effects and the First Minister would have to make a decision on every shopping centre and street. It would be very difficult. A rebate scheme would be preferable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 478720,
      "EditedText": "I have a point to pursue and it may be a parochial one. My understanding is that in some areas of Edinburgh where the local shops have suffered in the way that Mr Cardwell described, the rents have stayed up and market forces do not work. Charity shops get blamed for that, probably incorrectly. In your experience, does the market work, so that when a shopping centre is in decline the rents go down?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Cardwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 478721,
      "EditedText": "The revaluation shall take place from April. From the first figures for Edinburgh that I have seen it is clear that some shopping streets have decreased in value. One of the problems is the time that it takes for rent changes to work their way through the system. Changes are not instantaneous, and I suspect that in some cases occupiers of tertiary shopping streets are not as well advised as other occupiers, and they pay rents that are too high for too long. In the fullness of time, the market should have an effect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 478723,
      "EditedText": "We have not received that paper. Indeed, we only received the paper \"Removing the Business Rate Burden\" by the Federation of Small Businesses while we were in the waiting room this afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 478724,
      "EditedText": "I see. It would be unfair of me to ask you to respond to the document. Could you give us a written submission if we give you a copy of the document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 478725,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478727",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 478727,
      "EditedText": "We are about to take a comfort break, and then we are having another two submissions, so we have a full meeting. My feeling is that the meeting is full, but I do not want to cut people out. We have the option of hearing from the forum next week, but we can discuss that in the housekeeping part of this meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 478729,
      "EditedText": "You are giving me arguments, but we have a full meeting today. There will be time next week to hear from them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 478734,
      "EditedText": "We will discuss that when we deal with our housekeeping. I want to deal with one matter at a time. It has been asked if we can hear from the Forum of Private Business today. I am not saying that we will never hear from it; I am saying that it might be more appropriate to hear from it next week. By that time, the assessors will have the submission, and they may wish to give us some written comments. We would then all have a better chance to consider the submission. I appreciate what you are saying, Fergus, but we have a full agenda today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8473568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 478735,
      "EditedText": "Meeting next week also might be more suitable for the forum's representatives, because they may not have prepared to give evidence today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 478742,
      "EditedText": "Do you wish us to attend next week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 478743,
      "EditedText": "We will get back to you on that, because I like to tackle such issues at the end of the meeting. We will either ask you back or ask for a written submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 478746,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Bill Howat, Pete Hancock and Duncan Gray of the Scottish Executive development department, who will give a short presentation before we ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 478763,
      "EditedText": "We have not worked that through in any detail at all, for the reasons that I have outlined. Duncan Gray and his team are collating the statistics, which will give us a clearer idea of the actual spread across the country and of what the impact would be. The more thresholds that are introduced under any of the systems, whether for rating relief purposes or for anything else, the more points exist on which people have an incentive to appeal. Anything that increases the rate of appeal will have a short-term effect—it will create uncertainty—and a long-term effect, with ever more difficulties for local authorities and for the Executive in managing the local government finance settlement. We always have to make a calculation at this time of year of how much non-domestic rate income will come into the pool before the money is distributed. When you ask what the resource implications are, I can only say that there are resource implications. Once we find out what levels we are considering, we may have a better feel for the amounts that could be involved. The briefing papers that members have seen—including ours—have shown that the lower the threshold, the more properties are caught. There is a big base to the pyramid in terms of rateable values and properties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 478755,
      "EditedText": "Are there any questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 478761,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to deal with that, but I want to know to which consultation you refer. We have consulted on many issues. The issue that we are currently consulting on is the possibility of transitional relief. We are engaged in widespread consultation with the prescribed industries; we have previously consulted on the decapitalisation rate. A range of consultation has been conducted on quite technical matters. What would help the debate would be recognition that the process in which we are engaged is a statutory process, that there are certain time limits to which we must adhere and that a great deal of information must be collected to ensure that the decision is informed. I do not think that the time scale is significantly different from ones for previous revaluation, largely because of the difficulties that we face about setting a tone date, collecting information and trying to arrive at an implementation date that is not too far away from the tone date. The base date from which all this starts is 1 April 1998. It kicks in from 2000, and between those times there is a well-established timetable for rolling it forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Duncan Gray (Scottish Executive Development Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 478764,
      "EditedText": "The objective of the poundage setting and the financial calculations that we are making in the lead-up to the revaluation is for the total amount of non-domestic rate income not to change following the revaluation—the overall implication for local authority finance is that it will not change. Bill Howat was saying that there are two sets of cost. The slides showed costs associated with a relief scheme at today's money, with a 50 per cent relief for businesses with properties of £5,000 rateable value or less and 25 per cent for those with values between £5,000 and £7,500. Those costs are a little higher than those provided by the Federation of Small Businesses, because we have included the whole population of subjects below those rateable value thresholds, whereas the FSB suggested excluding certain categories of subject from the scheme. We do not have the data that allow us to model the costs of that. Our costs are also a little higher because we have costed things at today's money—at 1999-2000 rather than 1997-98 money. We have not yet completed our costings of a transitional scheme that could protect individual ratepayers against an excessive rise in their rates immediately following revaluation. As Bill Howat said, we are still assembling the final part of the information that is necessary to make those costings. The objective will be for that scheme to be self-financing: it will result in no loss of rate income to the local government finance settlements or to income to local government. Our initial indications are that, because the scale of the revaluation is much smaller this time than it was five years ago, the net cost of running a scheme of the sort that people are talking about—nobody has decided what precisely the scheme will be—is expected to be relatively modest. We will not know for sure, however, until we complete the data base and have got a scheme to test."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 478774,
      "EditedText": "Is two years your definition of long term?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 478775,
      "EditedText": "No. That is an unfortunate interpretation. I was suggesting that there would be a window of opportunity."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 478776,
      "EditedText": "Have your economic development colleagues in the Scottish Executive formed the view that rates are an important issue in terms of encouraging small businesses? In your view, has the Non-Domestic Rating (Rural Areas and Rateable Value Limits) (Scotland) Order 1997, which gives relief to specific rural establishments, caused problems or has it been helpful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478780",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 478780,
      "EditedText": "Turbulence is a new in-word—it is a bad thing, I gather. It is always helpful in politics to know whether one is for or against a thing—we are to be against turbulence.I do not know whether a relatively simple scheme to help small businesses to pay less in rates would cause turbulence. If they all paid less in rates, there would be less hoo-ha about winners and losers in the revaluation. Would such a scheme increase turbulence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 478781,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 478783,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. I felt that I should give a non-civil service answer for a change.It is a fair question. If we had a blank sheet of paper from 1 April next year, your point would have some validity and would be worth considering, but we will not have a blank sheet. At the end of this quinquennium, some businesses will still be in transition and will receive some relief through the existing small business relief scheme. All that needs to be considered in forming a view of where we go next.I apologise if I have given you a new buzz word—I did not intend to. You will have understood that turbulence is meant to capture the idea of minimising the uncertainty for people who want as much certainty as Government can give. The Executive is sympathetic to that wish.The key thing to be borne in mind is that we will not come out of this valuation with every property in Scotland paying the rates that it should, as determined by the previous revaluation. Therefore, as I suggested, it would be not be easy at this point in the cycle to start new systems that radically changed things.One problem with past valuations is that some people successfully appealed against them, but then found that their rates bill had not gone down—by being successful in the appeal they changed their position in terms of transition or rate relief. There can be complex issues at the individual level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 478787,
      "EditedText": "I start by saying that I do not mind Mr Muldoon missing a presentation for constituency business because I am one of his constituents. It is good to know that he is earning his corn.The main point, in terms of the papers and the representations that you have had today, is that ministers have not yet considered those matters. The representations are going the rounds. This committee is rightly examining them and will form a view on the issues—Jack McConnell will be interested to hear from it.On whether money will come from the block, the consultation paper that we have just issued—members of the committee will not have had a chance to look at it today—raises the possibility of some money from the block going towards a transitional relief scheme. As Jack McConnell has not yet addressed the issue of what will happen about rate relief for small businesses, I cannot comment on his view on that. Members will recognise the familiar problem: if someone produces a proposal that costs—I think from memory—£45.6 million and suggests that that sum should come from the block, the money will have to come from somewhere else in the block because, at the moment at least, the block is determined under the comprehensive spending review for the next two financial years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 478789,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan (Confederation of British Industry Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 478792,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I am the director of CBI Scotland, which means that I am the professional head of the organisation. Allan Hogarth is head of media and public affairs for CBI Scotland. We are pleased to have been asked to give evidence to the committee.We provided a short briefing paper to the committee clerk at the end of last week. In view of that, I will go through this fairly quickly. I am also mindful that you have had three presentations this afternoon. If I am brief, it will give members more time to ask questions, which we will be pleased to answer.We understand from the briefing that the committee clerk sent to us that the objective of this inquiry is to provide an early opportunity to consider changes to the system prior to revaluation and that the key issue that the committee is addressing is the balance of the burden of non-domestic rates between small and larger businesses. The contents of the first few sections of our paper will be well known to members. It states that businesses pay rents in England, Wales and Scotland and explains how the rating burden of a firm is determined. A rating revaluation is required every five years. After that exercise is carried out, the uniform business rate is adjusted so that the yield to the Scottish Executive remains the same but the distribution of the income that arises is somewhat different. There will be a revaluation that will take effect on 1 April, based on rateable values or on the values of properties on 1 April 1998. That will remain in place until 2005, when the next rating revaluation will take place.When we prepared the paper, we had not seen the consultation from the Scottish Executive. We had seen the English equivalent, which was published by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions. I have had the opportunity, over the past weekend, to look at the Scottish Executive's paper, which came out late last week. We did not take account of that in our paper. However, having compared the two, I can say that they are very similar. Scottish elements are taken into account; the two papers are virtually identical.I shall move on to the issue of small firms, as the committee might want to cut to the chase on that. It has been argued that the evidence suggests that business rates, as a proportion of turnover and profit, are greater for small businesses than for large businesses. Research has been carried out on that. The Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions commissioned research in 1995, which found that companies that had a turnover of less than £100,000 a year paid more than 30 per cent of their operating profits in rates. That was twice as much as that which was paid by larger companies. A similar exercise has been carried out in Scotland. There is evidence to support the view that small businesses that have a lower rateable value have a higher rate burden, proportionally. We would not dispute that. What is much more difficult to establish—and I do not believe that it has been established—is why that might arise. Until there is a greater understanding of that, it would be premature to try to prescribe any changes.It has been argued that the rate burden on smaller firms could be relieved by the provision of a substantial cut in rates on properties with a rateable value of £5,000. The Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions highlighted that possibility in a white paper in 1998. Study is still under way, as the reasons for the problem that I mentioned a moment ago are not clear.I shall cover two points. The first concerns the transitional relief for smaller firms that is proposed in the Executive's consultation paper. I shall then go on to talk about the possibility of a longer-term change in the relief for smaller firms. I cannot give the definitive CBI position on the Executive's consultation paper, as we need to consult our members to establish that position. The paper did not appear until the end of last week, and respondents have been given until the end of this month to work out their responses.In principle, CBI Scotland is opposed to a rate relief scheme for smaller firms, particularly a self-financing scheme. We believe that that concept is flawed. We believe that growth hurdles—not allowances, but bandings—for expanding businesses would come into play. A small firm that moved from a rateable value of under £5,000 to a rateable value of over £5,000 would be hit immediately by a 50 per cent increase in its rates.  If there were another band of, say, £7,500 or £8,000 and a small business moved from the middle band to the higher band, its rates would increase by 25 per cent. If a fast-moving company moved from below £5,000 to over £7,500 or £8,000—the band that has been suggested—it could be hit by an increase in rates of well over 100 per cent. We are concerned about that. Whether a firm is small or large, the tax is levied on the property, not on the firm per se. If a large firm occupies a large number of small properties—for example, a bank that uses small properties for automated teller machines, or a business that operates from kiosks—it will get the benefits intended for small firms. Last but not least, we would be concerned if a cut in rates for small properties made those properties more attractive, as market forces would drive up the rents, which could cancel out the benefit of the reduction in rates. We base that on a similar scenario that arose in some of the enterprise zones, where favourable treatment on rates caused rents to rise and the benefits to be lost. It is also possible that landlords would take the benefit of lower rates intended for small firms by increasing rents. Our view is that smaller firms can be helped in other ways. As I said in our paper, the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994 allows local authorities to relieve hardship. There are orders that limit rateable values, such as the Non-Domestic Rating (Rural Areas and Rateable Value Limits) (Scotland) Order 1997, which is cited in the paper. Therefore, there are ways in which relief can be targeted. We give yearly submissions to the Treasury on help for small businesses on a UK level in which we make suggestions, some of which are taken up, such as making permanent capital allowances,  or changing the capital gains tax regime in favour of small businesses. I do not know whether evidence has been provided to the committee on other suggested solutions to the small firms syndrome. I am happy to take questions, but before I do so, I want to explain that we are trying to help small businesses. We represent their interests and those of many trade associations in Scotland, whose members include a range of groups, from male and female plumbers to larger companies. Our position has been established in consultation with the people we represent. Our primary purpose is to help small businesses, not to put in place a change to the rating system that would not work terribly well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 478795,
      "EditedText": "You talked about the inherent flaws and hurdles in the banding system. Do you think that a tapering or sliding scale might overcome those difficulties? My conclusion from reading your document is that you want to keep the status quo. As a former head teacher, I must say that the tone of the penultimate paragraph of your paper, which implies that what small firms need to do is sort themselves out, does not compare well with the letter from the Federation of Small Businesses, which called for the cost of the scheme to be met from the block grant, rather than from an increase in rates for bigger businesses. The federation said:\"This will ensure that small businesses receive much needed rates relief and that the rates burden is not increased for medium and large businesses\".That is my feeling about the way in which you have presented your case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 478798,
      "EditedText": "How do you see that working in practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 478801,
      "EditedText": "Or something akin to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 478807,
      "EditedText": "We represent 26,500 firms, many of which are trade associations that represent, for example, small firms of plumbers or electricians. It is wrong to suggest that we represent only large firms."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478811",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 478811,
      "EditedText": "You would have to address that question to the Forum of Private Business. Our members have not raised the issue with us."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 478813,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of questions there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 478817,
      "EditedText": "The Government is just about to appoint a chief executive of the Small Business Service, which will obviously provide other support for small businesses. The Prime Minister gave more details of that initiative in his speech to the CBI conference today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 478818,
      "EditedText": "We will have to examine the whole system of taxation if we want to find a way of relieving small firms of this highish charge. Although one way to do that might be through a sliding scale of allowances and rates, that measure would be expensive to implement. It was suggested recently that firms could pay tax on their profits, or there could be a scheme related to employers' national insurance contributions. I am not sure of the exact detail of those proposals. Would the proposals on employers' national insurance operate only for small businesses, or would they apply to businesses across the board? If the proposals operated only for small businesses, at some point growth businesses would have to move from one system of taxation to another, which would mean that barriers could be built up. Furthermore, any scheme tied to employers' national insurance contributions with a correlation with rates or local taxes could act as a brake on employment.If such a system were to operate across the board, how could a large firm with multiple sites split its national insurance contributions or its taxable profits between one or another site without involving a great deal of bureaucracy or creating many difficulties?The stability and security of the yield is tied to any system of taxation that is based on profits or employment effects. In times of recession, when unemployment rose and profitability dropped, whoever received the tax—whether the Executive or local government—would find the yield dropping. That would have major implications for local expenditure.  For all the flaws of the rates, the security of the yield is not a problem, as it is a charge."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478822",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 478822,
      "EditedText": "Forty per cent of what? Is that a 40 per cent reduction in the rates?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 478824,
      "EditedText": "If it was a 40 per cent reduction in the rates, a business would pay 60 per cent of the rates that it would normally pay. That would mean that if it moved to larger premises than those with a £5,000 rateable value, it would immediately have to pay the difference between a 40 per cent reduction and no reduction at all. That would be a large increase."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 478829,
      "EditedText": "In your proposal, would all businesses be eligible for allowances or just small businesses that reach a certain level?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 478830,
      "EditedText": "My example relates to small businesses; at a certain point—for example £10,000—the relief would run out. Under Mr McMillan's argument, a small business with a rateable value of £4,500 that is doing so well that it moves to other premises with a rateable value of more than £10,000, would not get any relief. I would have thought that a business that was doing so well that it could afford to pay the increase, would not say, \"Gosh, if I am going to have to pay more rates, I am not going to expand my business.\" Persuade me that it would say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 478833,
      "EditedText": "We believe that there is a serious risk that that could happen, and we cite the evidence of the enterprise zones. We do not yet have that system of rates in this country, so there is no proof. At some point the committee will have to make a judgment about that, but we have given our view based on logic and precedent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 478846,
      "EditedText": "Indeed we are. The consultation paper appeared only at the end of last week, so it is a little soon to have consulted our members on our response to that consultation. There are two separate issues: the special help that is to be given to small firms within the parameters of the revaluation, and a longer-term change to the smaller firms rating regime that might help them over time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 478849,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps it is a question of turnover. If a businessman is on his ownsome, the take is that much smaller so the burden is that much greater. The fundamental question that I want to put to you is do you care about small businesses? Is there a problem in Scotland that must be addressed? Quite simply, if, after our deliberations, the burden on a business is reduced, say from 25 to 12.5 per cent, will that have any material effect?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 478852,
      "EditedText": "What about my final question on whether a reduction from 25 per cent to 12.5 per cent will have any material effect on a business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8629851+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 478853,
      "EditedText": "It is easy to produce a simplistic figure like that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 478856,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the need to make a judgment. I have made a judgment based on some of the things that you have said, which may be unfair. I want therefore to give you an opportunity to correct me. My point picks up on Donald Gorrie's comments and on what Gil Paterson has just said. You talk about poverty. Indeed, the only thing you have not said about poverty is, \"Let them eat cake.\" For us to make a judgment on your presentation, you need to convince us far more of why the status quo should remain. You say that you recognise the difficulties that face smaller businesses, but you are not prepared to listen to them until their screams are louder. Why will the CBI not make a judgment based on the information in front of it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 478862,
      "EditedText": "The point we want to get across is that defining the cost to business is not as simple as saying that any scheme that reduces the rates burden on small business will lead to dramatic growth in small firms. The Executive has set itself a target of helping to create around 100,000 small businesses over a 10-year period, or 10,000 a year. Rather than just saying that the scheme would lead to a massive growth in small firms, perhaps the Local Government Committee should speak to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee about whether the scheme would actually help to reach that target."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 478863,
      "EditedText": "The scheme might not bring about dramatic growth, but for some small firms it might mean the difference between surviving or not. I am concerned about your one-dimensional approach to market forces. You argued strongly that a reduction in rates could cause rents to increase, but I did not hear you say that the reverse would be true—that if we put up the rates that could lead to a rent reduction. Will you address that point?You referred to the proposals made by the Federation of Small Businesses in some detail. The FSB proposed that if the Scottish Executive does not provide funds of £46.4 million, the scheme could be self-financing if the burden on larger companies were increased by 3.5 per cent. What would be the effect on larger firms—in terms of growth, investment and employment—if that increase were implemented?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 478865,
      "EditedText": "Gil Paterson mentioned the fact that if a company employs more than 50 people, it is a medium company. Once a company reaches a certain size, rates are not the same issue as they are for small firms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478868",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 478868,
      "EditedText": "You would have to select a certain area where that would happen. Are you talking about certain enterprise zones where if the rates were increased, the rents would fall?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478876",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain McMillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 478876,
      "EditedText": "No, it is not. That would not overcome the problem of rentals or heritage values of smaller premises rising. How it is funded is a separate question. The effects of the tax break have to be considered separately. They are mutually exclusive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478879",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 478879,
      "EditedText": "Has there been no research on Edinburgh, for example, or on those areas of Scotland that are not within enterprise zones?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478880",
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Hogarth: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 478880,
      "EditedText": "No. You were asking us about what would happen if we reduce the rates for small firms, and so we gave an example where that had happened to explain the consequences for rents and the costs of businesses in those areas. It seemed fair to highlight a practical example where that had happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 478881,
      "EditedText": "Colin Campbell has a very quick question before I sum up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 478883,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee members for their questions. I am not going to ask a question, but I would like to make some comments. I am not absolutely sure who you represent, because I came to the meeting with the preconception that it was big business, but you have said that that is not the case. You say that you represent a whole range of businesses, but you have not done an analysis on the issues that Fergus Ewing mentioned. It might have helped if you had come to the meeting with that kind of knowledge. That is something that you should consider. I just want to leave that point with you.We leave as friends. If we need to hear from you again, we will invite you back. Thank you very much for coming. I know that you ran from another meeting to get here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 478886,
      "EditedText": "Do members who are going to be rapporteurs want some kind of format to follow? For the first visit, it would probably be better for you to receive an information pack.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 478887,
      "EditedText": "We will obviously expect to get some evidence from the people and groups that we speak to during our visits that backs up your reports.The agenda for our next meeting has changed slightly. Professor John Curtice is coming, and we had hoped that, at the end of the meeting, we would discuss what happened today. However, we have had a surge of requests for the Forum of Private Business and the Scottish Retail Consortium to come and speak to us. We could do that next week, and use any time left at the end for a discussion; but given what has happened today, we should allow more time for the discussion. Should we fit that in at a later date, or should we try to do everything next week? John Curtice is coming, and there would be two presentations. Would we be able to fit in, after the presentations, discussions of what happened today, of the two presentations and of how to proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 478889,
      "EditedText": "All right. Next week, we will have John Curtice, the Forum of Private Business and the Scottish Retail Consortium. Eugene and I will put our heads together to discuss how we can find time for discussions. There are options for what to do about the information that we have received today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 478890,
      "EditedText": "The person who is coming from the Forum of Private Business has to go to two meetings. Eugene may have to liaise with the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ContributionID": 478891,
      "EditedText": "Fergus may want to come back on this as well, so we can liaise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 573.0,
      "ContributionID": 478895,
      "EditedText": "That means that I will not get it, which is great.For our future work programme, we had agreed that if we were out on visits on Mondays or Fridays, we would cancel our normal weekly meeting. I am happy for us to cancel the meeting of 16 November, because a group of us will be out on a visit on Friday, a group will be out on Monday, and groups will be out on the following Friday and Monday. I want to give the clerks time to get their bits and pieces together. I also have to address a meeting that day, so I think that it would help everybody if we could cancel that meeting. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 579.0,
      "ContributionID": 478898,
      "EditedText": "Not at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 583.0,
      "ContributionID": 478900,
      "EditedText": "Can we fit that in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 589.0,
      "ContributionID": 478903,
      "EditedText": "Can you confirm, convener, that there is no meeting on the week starting 29 November? I know that 30 November is a holiday, but is there to be no meeting on 1 December?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 591.0,
      "ContributionID": 478904,
      "EditedText": "That is right.There is one other thing that I have to mention. Because of the dilemma of paid advocacy, if members are out at a council and are offered lunch, we will have to clarify before Friday whether they have to pay for it. Please do not accept a pint or a sweetie, because that could be seen as paid advocacy, and could actually mean that the members would not be able to say anything about the meeting when they came to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 599.0,
      "ContributionID": 478908,
      "EditedText": "We decided to put that back to the next meeting because of the time, but Donald and Morag Brown from the Scottish Parliament information centre will speak to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ContributionID": 478910,
      "EditedText": "On the great speech that you made at the conference."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 12940,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 607.0,
      "ContributionID": 478912,
      "EditedText": "That is right. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478916",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 615.0,
      "ContributionID": 478916,
      "EditedText": "Yes, he is going to come back as well.The assessors will have copies of the papers from the Forum of Private Business and the Scottish Retail Consortium. They are prepared to come back, speak to us, and answer questions on their assessment of those two papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 619.0,
      "ContributionID": 478918,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean the directors of finance through their group or through Convention of Scottish Local Authorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 629.0,
      "ContributionID": 478923,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 17:28."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.878606+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 478619,
      "EditedText": "I own a small business and am a member of the Federation of Small Businesses, the Forum of Private Business and the Scottish Council Development and Industry. I pay them subscriptions, but none of them pays me any money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 478695,
      "EditedText": "The alternative to a relief system would be that instructions would be given to you as to how the valuation process should be conducted. Could you confirm, for the record, that, under the Local Government Finance Act 1988, the First Minister, in succession to the Secretary of State for Scotland, has powers to instruct you as to how to carry out your task if, for example, it were felt that the rateable values of supermarkets were too low and those of hotels or licensed premises were too high?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.9236849+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 613.0,
      "ContributionID": 478915,
      "EditedText": "I have just spoken to Mr Cardwell of the assessors, and the suggestion is—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:17.5244413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C478917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 2701
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-domestic Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12940,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12940,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 617.0,
      "ContributionID": 478917,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to prolong things—I know that this has been a long afternoon—but Mr Cardwell suggested to me in a private conversation that it might be useful, given the scheme that you are considering, if the directors of finance had an opportunity to speak about the implementation of such a scheme, especially as we are looking at computer programmes, cost implications and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:17.5244413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 1",
      "SubHeadingID": 6324,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 6324,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 241144,
      "EditedText": "I invite the minister to move amendment 6."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 6323,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mike Watson): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 241138,
      "EditedText": "I call the meeting to order. This is an exciting and historic occasion—it is the first time that a committee of the Scottish Parliament has taken stage 2 of a bill.Because of the general lack of familiarity with the procedures, I will make an explanatory statement.Today, we are considering stage 2 of part 1 of the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill. It is a pleasure to welcome the Minister for Finance, Mr Jack McConnell.Members should have before them the bill, the marshalled list of amendments and my suggested groupings of amendments. It might be helpful if I explain the purposes of the documents and the way in which this morning's debate will be conducted. If members have any questions, I will take them at the end. If I cannot answer your questions, Sarah Davidson, the committee clerk, will do so.Copies of the grouping list and the marshalled list have been placed on members' desks. Amendments have been grouped to allow a debate to take place on related amendments. The grouping is designed to eliminate repetition in debate and to allow members of the committee maximum choice. Nevertheless, all amendments must be called in turn from the marshalled list and will be disposed of in that order. It is important to state that the committee cannot move backwards in the marshalled list.You will note that only the amendments to part 1 of the bill are grouped. That is because the grouping of the other amendments is the responsibility of the Audit Committee.There will be one debate on each of the nine groups of amendments. I will call the proposer of the first amendment in the group, who should end his speech by moving the amendment. I will then call other members to speak, including the proposers of all the other amendments in the group. Members should not move their amendments at that stage. Any other member of the Scottish Parliament who wants to participate in any debate should indicate a wish to do so in the usual manner. I should point out that the minister is here to move amendments lodged in his name and to respond to amendments lodged by others. It would not be appropriate for members to put questions directly to the minister, although I am sure that he will do his best to address points that have been raised in the debate.At the end of the debate on each group, I will clarify whether the member who moved the amendment still wants to press it to a decision. If he does not, he may seek the leave of the committee to withdraw it. If it is not withdrawn, I will put the question on that first amendment to the group by saying, \"The question is, that amendment x be agreed to. Are we all agreed?\" Members should reply appropriately and, if any member disagrees, we will proceed to a division by a show of hands. In that event, it is important that members keep their hands clearly raised until the clerk indicates that she has recorded the result.I remind you that only members of the committee may vote, although any member of the Parliament may lodge, move and speak to any amendment.Following a decision on an amendment, we will either move on to the next group or, if the next amendment on the marshalled list has already been debated, I will call the member who has proposed it to move it, if he so wishes, but he should not make a speech. There will be no further debate and I will immediately put the question.With any amendment, whether or not it is the first in a group, it is open to the member who proposed it not to move it when it is called by saying, \"not moved\".I remind you that, as well as disposing of amendments, the committee is required  to decide whether to agree to each section and schedule of the bill. I will put the question on each question or schedule when it is reached. The only way in which it is permitted to oppose agreement to a section is by lodging an amendment to leave out the entire section. No such amendments have been lodged so far, but if any member wants to oppose the question that a section or schedule be agreed to, they will have the option to propose a manuscript amendment to leave it out when we reach that point in the proceedings. If that happens, it is my decision whether to allow the amendment to be taken.Before I put the question on any section or schedule, I will be happy to allow a short debate on the section or schedule. That might be useful to allow discussion on matters not raised in relation to amendments.Since there has been no decision of the Parliament on the order of consideration, I propose that the order in which we consider the sections and schedules of part 1 should be the normal order. We will take the sections in the order in which they appear in the bill, and take any amendments that relate to a schedule after we have considered the section that introduces that schedule.Are we agreed that that should be the procedure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 1",
      "SubHeadingID": 6324,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 6324,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 241141,
      "EditedText": "The first amendment is amendment 5, which I invite the minister to move. He can take this opportunity to speak to amendment 7, but he should not move it at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 1",
      "SubHeadingID": 6324,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 6324,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 241145,
      "EditedText": "This is another technical amendment, based on similar principles.I have already mentioned the need to provide for the possibility of separate parliamentary controls on resource consumption funded directly from the Scottish consolidated fund and on that funded by accruing resources.The bill, as drafted, would require activities funded by accruing resources to be subject to global expenditure limits set by the Parliament. We have concluded that it would be better if budget bills set limits on resource consumption to be supported directly from the Scottish consolidated fund and applied separate controls on expenditure to be funded from accruing resources.The amendment uses the term \"accruing resources\" rather than \"income\" deliberately because we need to use a term that is sufficiently wide to reflect not only income generated by the Scottish Administration, but changes in income caused by, for example, a realisation of assets. The purpose of the amendment is to improve the Executive's accountability and the Parliament's ability to authorise expenditure. If we simply had authorisation for the net budget of the Administration, what was being authorised in relation to accruing resources would not always be clear. We believe that it is important that Parliament clearly authorises the net budget limits, the accruing resources and the purposes to which they might be put.I move amendment 6."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 1",
      "SubHeadingID": 6324,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 6324,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 241146,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 6 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 241154,
      "EditedText": "We now move to section 3 and to amendments 21 and 22, which are grouped. I shall speak to amendment 21 and then move it. Mr Raffan will then speak to amendment 22 but will not move it at this stage.I should point out that, in moving amendment 21, I am speaking on behalf of the Finance Committee, which agreed last week to lodge this amendment. The figure of £50 million is stated in the bill in connection with the authorisation of the use of resources by Scottish ministers. Members of the committee felt that it was better not to have a specific figure in primary legislation and, after some debate, we considered mechanisms for achieving an alternative. We felt that we should accept the figure of £50 million as it stands and have that figure uprated at 1999 values. The committee accepted that the proposed amendment would provide the ability to move forward at the equivalent base rate. On that basis, I move amendment 21.Mr Raffan, would you like to speak to amendment 22?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 241155,
      "EditedText": "I agree with a lot of what you have just said, Mike. I have a natural aversion to figures or amounts in bills because they can be eroded by inflation and are therefore subject to amendment in the short term, never mind the long term. My reason for lodging this amendment is that I think that to put in a percentage, which was discussed by the committee at previous meetings, is simpler and safer. My amendment is simpler than the one that you have moved on behalf of the Finance Committee. The percentage proposed in my amendment is easier to calculate and more user friendly. Technically, the figure of £50 million would have an equivalent percentage of 0.3 repeater. I have uprated that percentage slightly because of my natural generosity and because I think that it is safer to round the figure up to 0.5 per cent, which is equivalent to a sum of almost £70 million. As members will recall from briefings, the figure of £50 million is arbitrary. It may not have been plucked out of the sky, but it is arbitrary. It is the sum that has been identified as roughly what is needed. With my natural generosity towards the Minister for Finance, and knowing all the difficulties that he faces, I thought that it would be safer to round the figure up to 0.5 per cent.My basic reason for lodging this amendment is that I think that it is simpler, easier to calculate and more user friendly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 241157,
      "EditedText": "As the member who originally raised this question, I think that either of the amendments would be acceptable. The general principle is the important one: we should not have in primary legislation figures that will become out of date and require amendment at some time in the future. I hope that the minister will accept that principle, whichever amendment we decide to accept. On reflection, it seems to me that Mr Raffan's amendment would be better, not because of its generosity but because of its simplicity. Otherwise, we would have to think about the retail prices index every year and try to work back to the original £50 million. I therefore support Mr Raffan's amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 241159,
      "EditedText": "I also endorse your amendment, convener. The committee discussed the matter at length and the record is quite plainly there to see. I understand where Mr Raffan is coming from, but other agencies in Government circles follow the RPI guidelines and, as we discussed fully, there is no need for us to move away from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 241160,
      "EditedText": "In such amiable surroundings, I do not want to say anything that would prompt a headline in The Scotsman tomorrow reading, \"Committee split on key amendment,\" so I shall try to be helpful. I support the principle that is being proposed by the committee and I am happy to consider amending the bill in that way. I think that there may be problems with both amendments. The RPI is published monthly but, if we are to use an index, it may not be the best index to use. If we went down the route of uprating the figure based on an index, it would make sense to spend some time considering what index would be best.I am more inclined to the idea of a percentage, but my mind is not closed to the idea of using an index and I would like to give that option further consideration. If we used a percentage, there would be a problem with Mr Raffan's amendment because I do not think that there is a specific overall cash authorisation in the bill as it stands. The terminology may therefore have to be changed. If the committee will allow me to do so, I would welcome the opportunity to consult the convener and members of the committee and perhaps come back with a Government amendment at stage 3. An amendment to make the proposed change for an annual uprating of some kind—by way of a percentage or in relation to an index—could be inserted into the bill with the Government's support. If that could be agreed, I would be happy to co-operate with the convener in trying to reach consensus on the matter between now and stage 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 241161,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister. As I have moved amendment 21, I ask the committee whether, in light of the minister's remarks, it agrees that I should withdraw that amendment pending the emergence of a Government amendment at stage 3 along the lines that the minister has suggested. Are members agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 241162,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 241163,
      "EditedText": "If that is the committee's view, I am happy to go along with it. I want to point out, however, that the RPI is used across most of the public sector to uprate such things as pensions. I understand where the minister is coming from, but perhaps we could have a discussion about that in committee before stage 3. Would it be possible to feed back our views on that before a formal Government amendment is lodged? Could we do that through the clerks?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
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      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 241169,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments on amendments 8, 9 and 10?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 241172,
      "EditedText": "I understand why Mr Adam is moving this amendment, but I also have some reservations about it. There is a tension between the Government's power to govern and ours to be consulted and to approve. In this case, there is no question that we will be consulted, but I do not think that we should tie anyone's hands. I do not think that the bill gives the Government the freedom to abuse their authority or their power. There are plenty of powers in the bill that we can exercise over the Government and over the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C241178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6326,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 241178,
      "EditedText": "Am I right in saying that I am not allowed to respond to the minister's comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 241190,
      "EditedText": "If my understanding is correct and the minister is saying that in presenting supporting documentation there will be an undertaking to be clear about savings, efficiency savings and reallocations, I would find that acceptable. There is a considerable lack of clarity, at level 2 at least, in the supply estimates, which we are not discussing today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 241193,
      "EditedText": "We have to follow the theme the committee has discussed at length: how much detail we receive to do our job properly for the Parliament and Scotland. I have sympathy with Mr Adam's position. I also have sympathy with the minister's comments. It is unfortunate that today's meeting has not coincided with the fulfilment of the process of dealing with the written understandings. That is possibly where the tensions lie. At some stage in this collective process, we have to stress that information must be laid before the committee in the way it wishes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 241196,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to be in any way disrespectful to your position in the chair, convener, but the minister referred to the memorandum of understanding and to the fact that the points about information will be tied up with it. I am expressing unease—I am having to say that we will put off the discussion until the written understandings come back. The minister remarked that Parliament is supreme about such issues and can block a budget bill if it does not approve its contents. I find that particularly bad government. If we got into terrible impasses with days to go—during which the budget bill might be lost—that would be a failure of our legislative process and structure. We must ensure that we put in place enough checks and balances and points about information on which we can achieve comfort. That would prevent a budget bill being blocked because the Government had not provided the information we require. I mean him no disrespect, but the minister may be succeeded by somebody who does not have quite the same willingness to be open to the committee. We could be in a very difficult situation: the legislative process we are now constructing might let the Parliament down at a later stage in the process. That is why it is important to clarify, with amendment 11, a totally reasonable point of view that the committee has already debated at length during its short life and which would assist the structure of the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C241198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
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      "ID": 6327,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 241198,
      "EditedText": "I was certainly interested to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 241199,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, convener: are we concluding the debate on amendment 11 at this stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C241203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 241203,
      "EditedText": "I regret to say that I cannot accept the view that the minister has offered, either as an alternative or as an explanation. I find the idea that the supporting documentation is the place where information such as is specified in my amendment would be most appropriately put not exactly satisfactory—the information will be separate and it will not necessarily be available immediately. The headline figures would be available—not that Mr McConnell would be in any way wish merely to use headlines. The advantage of the amendment is its simplicity. It insists that the source of funds is given. If we are to have accounts and budgets that are immediately accessible to the lay person, let alone to the professionals, having information on the source of funds in the bill would be a significant advantage. Having it in secondary, supporting documentation, which may or may not be available at the same time, is less than satisfactory. The place to address that is in the bill—in the act and in any subordinate legislation—itself, rather than in supporting documentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 241209,
      "EditedText": "forSwinney, Mr John (North Tayside) (SNP)Wilson, Andrew (Central Scotland) (SNP)againstDavidson, Mr David (North-East Scotland) (Con)Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)Lyon, George (Argyll and Bute) (LD)Macintosh, Mr Kenneth (Eastwood) (Lab)Raffan, Mr Keith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)Simpson, Dr Richard (Ochil) (Lab)Thomson, Elaine (Aberdeen North) (Lab)Watson, Mike (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab)"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 241211,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 11 disagreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 4",
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      "ID": 6328,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 241216,
      "EditedText": "No. We have dealt with section 3 already. Amendment 11 would have added a new section after section 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "SubHeading": "After Section 4",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 241219,
      "EditedText": "I shall invite Mr Adam to move amendment 12 in just second, but first I ask members to note that it would appear after section 4, if it were agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C241236",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
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    "Committee": {
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Schedule 1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 241236,
      "EditedText": "Schedule 1, as amended, agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 9",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 241237,
      "EditedText": "Keeper of the Registers of Scotland: financial arrangements"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C241223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 4",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 241223,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful to the minister for his technical explanations. I am not grateful to him for failing to give me comfort in terms of anything other than the famous memorandum of understanding. Perhaps understandably, I have a little less faith in memorandums of understanding than the minister. However, given his explanation, I will not pursue the amendment now. I look forward to seeing what the memorandum of understanding says on the point.I ask leave to withdraw the amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 241224,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 12, by agreement, withdrawn."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "ContributionID": 241225,
      "EditedText": "Sections 5 and 6 agreed to."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241226",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
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      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "SubHeading": "Section 7",
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      "ContributionID": 241226,
      "EditedText": "Application of receipts"
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  {
    "ID": "C241230",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "EditedText": "Section 7, as amended, agreed to."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C241231",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "EditedText": "Section 8 agreed to."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C241239",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 15 agreed to."
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  {
    "ID": "C241242",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
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    "Committee": {
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 10:53."
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  {
    "ID": "C241143",
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      "ID": 1399
    },
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      "ID": 130
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "SubHeading": "Section 1",
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      "EditedText": "Amendment 5 agreed to."
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    "ID": "C241139",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C241140",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 1",
      "SubHeadingID": 6324,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 6324,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 241140,
      "EditedText": "Use of resources"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 2",
      "SubHeadingID": 6325,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6325,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 241148,
      "EditedText": "Emergency arrangements"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 2",
      "SubHeadingID": 6325,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 6325,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 241150,
      "EditedText": "I move amendment 7."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 241158,
      "EditedText": "At the risk of falling off the minister's Christmas card list, I support amendment 21. We spent a great deal of time during our informal discussions knocking around where the figure of £50 million had come from. In the absence of a sophisticated methodology for arriving at that figure, I would rather err on the side of caution and say that, if the Executive believes £50 million to be the appropriate figure in the current financial context, we should stick with that. The formula in amendment 21 allows us to do that. I acknowledge Richard Simpson's comment about always having to look at the retail prices index, but the RPI gives us an established and fairly clear formula for considering such issues. I therefore endorse amendment 21."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 241165,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 21, by agreement, withdrawn."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 241167,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to amendments 8, 9 and 10. I call Mr Brian Adam to speak to all three amendments but to move only amendment 8 at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 241170,
      "EditedText": "I have heard what Brian has said and I share his concern about the phrase \"as soon as possible\", but I am not sure about replacing \"Where\" with \"Before\". I think that that would tie the minister's hands to too great an extent, particularly in view of all the exigencies of parliamentary business and the difficulty of bringing things before Parliament at short notice. I have reservations about replacing \"Where\" with \"Before\", but I am concerned about the phrase \"as soon as possible\", which is open to virtually any interpretation. In view of the length of time that the Executive takes to reply to parliamentary correspondence, \"as soon as possible\" could mean anything up to three months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 241174,
      "EditedText": "A principle that underpins the bill is that the Executive must seek the authority of Parliament for its budget acts and public expenditure provisions. The amendments fit in with that principle. There is a requirement for the authority of Parliament to be sought for major aspects of public expenditure. The Government's ability to respond to emergencies such as the tragedies at Lockerbie and Dunblane within the time scale that is envisaged would not, in my view, be compromised if amendments 8, 9 and 10 were carried. We need to maintain effective parliamentary scrutiny of changes—fairly major changes—to the tune of up to £50 million in the allocation of public expenditure. Parliament would be able to examine, debate and approve changes to the public expenditure settlement. It is reasonable to argue for the maintenance of an important part of parliamentary accountability when, in other aspects of the bill, we have managed to put in place a range of other provisions that guarantee the role of Parliament and the Executive's obligation to take the views of Parliament into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 241181,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 8, by agreement, withdrawn."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C241180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6326,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 6326,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 241180,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate the minister's willingness to recognise that there are issues to be discussed—he recognised that at stage 1. My amendment was an attempt to address those issues specifically. I hear some committee members saying that it is perhaps too restrictive, but there are some concerns about memorandums of understanding, because there may be misunderstandings. If something is in legislation, it has to be adhered to. I appreciate that the draft of the understandings is not yet agreed so, through a wish to let things go forward, I will withdraw the amendment and give the minister the opportunity to make amendments to the understandings. I therefore ask leave to withdraw the amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C241186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 241186,
      "EditedText": "For some time, and even since before this Parliament came into being, I have been concerned about a lack of clarity in some Government announcements about the sources of finance. Such announcements tend to take place from this time of year through to the spring.Efficiency savings are sought—of 1 per cent from the further education colleges budget and of 3 per cent from the health trusts budget, for example. There have also been planned returns on capital, some of which have been specified in respect of the Keeper of the Registers of Scotland, if I have the right technical term. A 6 per cent return on the capital invested is sought; I believe that it is the same in the health service. However, even for savings that have been planned, it is not always clear when moneys that have been saved or otherwise returned to the consolidated fund are being spent again. It is not always clear that they are just recycled moneys from the same year.The purpose of this amendment is to make it clear that the money is not new but is simply efficiency savings and so on being returned. It aims to make the process as open as possible and to let the public know the source of the funds.I move amendment 11."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 241189,
      "EditedText": "I tend to support the minister's point of view, although I have some sympathy for Brian's points. It is incredibly important that all documentation supporting a budget be clear, simple and user friendly. I do not think that it is at the moment. Bearing in mind the FIAG report's injunction on us that public spending and the budget itself should go out to public consultation, it is very important that information is easy to understand. Although I know that the Scottish Executive will always be straightforward with us, we hope that it will not follow the unfortunate example that has been set by the current United Kingdom Government of making wild claims for spending that is based on recycled money multiplied over three years. It is never clear whether it is referring to year-on-year spending, whether inflation is taken into account, or whatever. If this committee is to its job efficiently, we must have figures that are clear, simple and easy to understand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 241192,
      "EditedText": "While I accept the minister's view, there is considerable work to be done to achieve the clarity that will be of comfort to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 241194,
      "EditedText": "While listening to Keith Raffan, I found myself wondering why he is not supporting the amendment. Everything he said about the need for us to be certain of the information that has come before us and the importance of the points about recycled money and so on are things that we must sort out once and for all. We have to take on trust a great deal of what will emerge in the written understandings. I feel that, in the weeks to come, I will end up having a discussion in which we will not reach agreement about some aspects of the written understandings because there are some points of genuine disagreement about the content of information that we should be seeking—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 241197,
      "EditedText": "I am keen to assure the committee about the written understandings. We want to provide as much information as we can and to be as transparent as possible. We want to be at least close to agreement on them before the bill is finalised in December. I want to respond briefly to the points that the committee made, I presume last Tuesday, but I think that amendment 11 is wrong in principle. I am not opposed to the amendment just because I have given assurances that I will do what it stipulates by other means. The written understanding takes into account the fact that we are not always dealing with the same individuals in ministerial positions or in committees. It is important to have consistency in both directions. That is where the written understandings could be useful. The purpose of the annual budget bill and act will be to authorise the use of expenditure, not to explain the various pockets from where that expenditure may have come. The purpose of the supporting documentation is to explain that expenditure. That is an important distinction. I think that we are doing the right thing in proposing that a budget bill and act would authorise expenditure. That would be a legislative process. The supporting documentation should not be something that the Executive provides on a whim; it should be the subject of a written understanding between the Executive and Parliament, on the same principle that the budget bill is a parliamentary process, not an Executive diktat. I am keen to make the point that amendment 11 would be using the bill for the wrong purposes, not just superseding what I think should be done better in another way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 241201,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I am confused about what the minister has just said. If I have interpreted him correctly, he said that he does not want us to be on the receiving end of commitments about what is likely to be in the written understandings. If that is the case, it colours substantially my judgement about what is being proposed in the amendment. If amendment 11 is not passed, how would the minister plan to address the issues concerned with—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 241202,
      "EditedText": "John, seeking clarification from the minister is not really the function of this amendment. He has made two contributions to the debate on amendment 11. As I said at the start, this is not a question and answer session with the minister. I think that the minister has made his position relatively clear, and we have to make our minds up on that basis. I do not want this to become a dialogue, and unless anyone else wants to speak, I want to go to Brian Adam at this point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 241207,
      "EditedText": "Should not Brian vote as well? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 241208,
      "EditedText": "No. Brian is not a member of the committee and does not have a vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 4",
      "SubHeadingID": 6328,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ID": 6328,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 241212,
      "EditedText": "Payments out of the Scottish Consolidated Fund"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 4",
      "SubHeadingID": 6328,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ID": 6328,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 241215,
      "EditedText": "Should it be section 3? The amendment comes after section 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C241220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 4",
      "SubHeadingID": 6329,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ID": 6329,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 241220,
      "EditedText": "We are moving towards being able to move money forward from one year to another, which is a significant advantage. Amendment 12 takes account of that, but tries to set limits. We are not seeking deliberately to underspend—or possibly overspend, but the amendment deals with underspend—to a significant extent. The amendment represents a tidying-up exercise, which seems to have been omitted.I arrived at the figure of 2 per cent on the basis that it is a little more generous than the figure by which we appear to underspend regularly on the Scottish consolidated fund, which equates to, I gather, between £150 million and £200 million a year; 2 per cent would give us £280 million or perhaps £300 million a year. I felt that the amendment allowed us to arrive at a sensible figure and more flexibility, which I think is the object of the resource account budgeting exercise. We would not be forced into spending money at the end of the year for the sake of spending money, but could have planned expenditure with the greater flexibility that the 2 per cent would allow as opposed to the 1 or 1.5 per cent that would be the normal turnover. I am not, however, absolutely thirled to the figure, if the minister wants to come back with a minor adjustment. I move amendment 12."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 7",
      "SubHeadingID": 6330,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ID": 6330,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 241228,
      "EditedText": "This is a technical amendment that we have lodged for specific reasons. We concluded that the previous draft left room for doubt on certain aspects of the provisions. The revised version clarifies that any receipts used to fund expenditure will not impact on the overall cash authorisation that is set in a budget act under section 4(4) of the bill. The amendment also ensures that the receipts that are referred to are not simply those arising from income for services, but relate to the issue of the realisation of assets. The section provides that funds generated by an authorised use of accruing resources may be used to support any authorised expenditure in the financial year—or in any year thereafter, if immediate expenditure is not possible—as long as that use of the accruing resources was first authorised by a budget act. Managers will not be required to pay receipts into the Scottish consolidated fund if they are authorised by this section to apply them.The previous wording of section 7 had the potential for confusion. The result might have been that although managers had been authorised to spend on the basis of receipts, the expenditure and receipts would count against the net budget as authorised by other means. To some extent, this clarification—although not identical or directly linked—is trying to achieve the same ends as the previous Government amendments. We want to make it absolutely clear that where authorisation has been given for expenditure, based on accruing resources, it is separate from the net expenditure approvals that have been given elsewhere.I hope that that is clearer to the committee than it was to me a week ago. I would welcome the committee's acceptance of the amendment, which improves transparency and accountability. However technically complex the amendment may be, it is important that the outcome is clear. The amendment will result in a clearer outcome to the budget bill and the authority of Parliament will be enacted without confusion.I move amendment 13."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Schedule 1",
      "SubHeadingID": 6331,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 6331,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 241232,
      "EditedText": "Borrowing by Certain Statutory Bodies"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 9",
      "SubHeadingID": 6332,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 6332,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 241238,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 15 is also of a minor, technical nature. The amendment caters for the salary and related expenses of the Keeper of the Registers of Scotland. We intend that all staff costs relating to the Registers of Scotland should be met by the agency through trading profits, but the Scotland Act 1998 requires those costs to be paid from the Scottish consolidated fund by the Scottish ministers. It is therefore necessary to ensure that the Registers of Scotland repays any expenditure on its staff costs that are made from the fund. The original draft of the bill does not provide such arrangements for costs relating to the keeper—it covers only the staff—and amendment 15 corrects that omission.I thank the committee for the clear and helpful way in which it has dealt with the amendments.I move amendment 15."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6322,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6322,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 241137,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:48"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 1",
      "SubHeadingID": 6324,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 6324,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 241142,
      "EditedText": "That was my understanding—I was about to ask if my interpretation was correct. I will move amendment 5 and speak to amendment 7.These are technical amendments. The intention is to provide for the possibility of separate parliamentary controls on different categories of expenditure. In particular, along with the provisions proposed by amendment 6, the amendments provide for separate controls on resource consumption funded directly from the Scottish consolidated fund and on those funded by accruing resources, such as income and the proceeds from the realisation of assets. The amendments provide the option of allowing certain activities to operate without a fixed resource limit because, by using the word \"any\", the Parliament can opt to refrain from setting a limit on certain narrowly defined categories of expenditure.The intention is that most expenditure that is funded by accruing resources would be subject to limits. In certain clearly defined cases, however, it might be preferable to operate without a limit. An example might be European-funded projects where any increase in expenditure funded by the Scottish Executive is met by an increase in resources from the European Union. Another example is VAT expenditure, which will be refunded in due course.Amendment 5 deals with the annual limits to be set in a budget act. Amendment 7 covers the limits to be used when no budget act has been agreed at the start of the new financial year. Amendment 7 is consequential on amendment 5 and recognises that temporary expenditure authorisation might need to reflect the fact that spending in the previous financial year was subject to more than one limit or no limit at all.The amendments, while technical, improve the process of accountability and give Parliament more of a role in the authorisation of specific sums. They would allow a specific limit to be set on authorisation where there are wide-ranging categories of expenditure but, where the Parliament so decided, in certain clearly defined cases, they would allow a more flexible limit to be set that would allow programmes to be completed without further authorisation.I move amendment 5."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 1",
      "SubHeadingID": 6324,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 6324,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 241147,
      "EditedText": "Section 1, as amended, agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 2",
      "SubHeadingID": 6325,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 6325,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 241149,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 7 has already been debated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 2",
      "SubHeadingID": 6325,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 241151,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 7 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 241152,
      "EditedText": "Section 2, as amended, agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 241153,
      "EditedText": "Contingencies"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 241156,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Mr Raffan. You will certainly be high up in the minister's Christmas card list after offering him greater authorisation.Do members want to debate amendments 21 and 22?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 241164,
      "EditedText": "That would be fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 241166,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 22 not moved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C241168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 241168,
      "EditedText": "The intention of amendments 8, 9 and 10 is to effect greater accountability of the Administration to the Parliament. Unlike some of his colleagues who have come from elsewhere, the Minister for Finance has not been guilty, as far as I am aware, of continuing the practice of making announcements about significant changes outwith the Parliament. Amendments 8, 9 and 10 propose that all financial changes should come to the Parliament in the first instance. The effect of deleting \"Where\" and inserting \"Before\", and the consequential changes proposed by amendments 9 and 10, should be to make the minister accountable to Parliament. It would be up to the Parliament to decide where matters should then be dealt with, whether in Parliament itself or in committees. There are recesses from time to time, but it is quite possible to recall the Finance Committee, or some other suitable body, during a recess. I move amendment 8."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 241171,
      "EditedText": "I would like to speak against this amendment. There will be circumstances in which the Executive must act speedily and it would be inappropriate for it not to do so. I am thinking particularly of cases such as Lockerbie and Dunblane, which I was involved in myself, where immediate action is needed. Were such a catastrophe to occur during a recess, the problems that would be created by this amendment would be substantial. I therefore regard amendments 8, 9 and 10 as inappropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 241173,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what Richard Simpson said about the need for speed. Like Mr Adam and Mr Raffan, I am concerned that the accounting process and the reporting process should be stiffened somewhat, but the minister and the Government must have some flexibility in emergencies. My concern is about how we can tidy up the reporting process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241182",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 241182,
      "EditedText": "Amendments 9 and 10 not moved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
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      "SubHeading": "Section 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 241175,
      "EditedText": "As I think Mr Adam might suspect, I am not, in principle, unhappy with the maximum amount of control and accountability being established in this bill and elsewhere. However, given the situation with parliamentary recesses, his amendment might not always work in practice.I respectfully suggest that a better way of dealing with this might be to amend the draft written understanding, which the committee saw last week, in a way that deals with some of the issues being raised without needing to be too specific in statute. For example, I would be happy to amend the draft written understanding to say that it is expected that the Executive will notify Parliament either before any decision of this sort is taken or on the first sitting day thereafter, or words to that effect. I would be happy to give that as a firm undertaking to the committee and accept amendments to the written understanding on that basis. That would deal with the issue of prior notification, which I consider important in principle, although it might not always be possible. I say prior, but if the notification is not prior, it should at least be immediate on the first day the clerk's office is open thereafter. It should not be impossible for any minister to do that, given that the minister will presumably have based any decision on written advice from officials which could subsequently be converted into a notification to Parliament. I happily give that assurance.I also draw to the committee's attention to the fact that in the draft—which is a very initial draft—of the understandings that was circulated last week, there was a commitment that ministers would lay a report before Parliament at least 14 calendar days before actually spending the money. If a decision has been made but the money has not yet been spent, Parliament at least has some time to make observations.I highlight those two points and, on that basis, recommend that the committee does not accept the amendment. If we discuss written understandings between now and stage 3, and individual members are still unhappy, it would be possible to have a further debate in the chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241176",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 6323,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 241176,
      "EditedText": "The issues of the amendment are for Brain Adam, but I would like to make a point about the minister's comments on the written understandings, which get to the nub of what we are feeling our way towards at this stage of the bill, and which relate to what we said last week about the written understandings. I welcome the tone and content of what the minister said about written understandings. I take from his comments a desire on his part that the committee should be comfortable with the contents of the written understandings. However, we are addressing the issues at a very formal stage of the bill and we are potentially giving up our ability to change the legislation at this stage on the proviso that the written understandings will give us comfort at a later stage. I am quite happy to do that, provided that a number of our concerns about the written understandings are taken on board by the Executive and that we can see a positive response to the issues that the committee has raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241177",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 241177,
      "EditedText": "I note your remarks, Mr Swinney, but that is not something that we can take into account in the debate on this amendment or progress at this stage. The committee's views last week were recorded, but at the moment we have to stick to amendment 8.Mr Adam, do you wish to press your amendment?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241179",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 241179,
      "EditedText": "No—you may reply to the debate."
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  {
    "ID": "C241183",
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      "ContributionID": 241183,
      "EditedText": "Section 3 agreed to."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C241184",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 241184,
      "EditedText": "Sources of funds"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 241185,
      "EditedText": "We now come to amendment 11."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
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      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 241187,
      "EditedText": "I support Brian's point of view—there can be no reasonable disagreement with more information being provided at the time of a budget. In the recent budget announcements, significant changes were made to previous announcements. Parliamentary questions were lodged. We are awaiting the answers because of the pressure on finance officials, which is understandable, but it can be six or seven weeks after an announcement is made before the public is aware of the sources of money. It is difficult to see how an argument could be constructed against something that improves clarity and improves the scrutiny of budget legislation and budget bills."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 6327,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 241188,
      "EditedText": "It would be wrong to amend the bill because of financial statements that are made to Parliament at times other than during the passing of a budget bill. Taking account of comments from MSPs and the public, I always want to improve the information we provide to Parliament about any regular financial statements. However, that is not the same as specifying in a budget bill the information that should really be in supporting documentation. The supporting documentation should be as clear as possible, not only for MSPs, for ministers—to establish clearly what they are being authorised to spend—and for programme managers, but for those who watch us from outside the chamber. What we are agreeing and the information on which it is based should be very clear. We are attempting to make strides in that direction and to improve the way things are dealt with in other places. I hope that we can continue to do that and prove that we can do it well.It would be wrong to set a precedent for bills containing supporting documentation. The purpose of the budget bill is to give express authorisation for the use of resources; it is not to explain the use of those resources or where they come from. That is the purpose of supporting documentation, which is why we want a firm understanding with the Parliament about what is expected of us in producing that documentation and about what is expected of the Parliament when dealing with it. Those are important understandings. We are involved in dialogue on how to ensure that that information is as effective as possible. I hope that members will agree that supporting documentation, rather than statute, is the right place for such information to exist.It is important for the committee to remember that if the Parliament is not happy with the supporting documentation that goes with a budget bill, it can hold up the bill—either to demand more information or to move against provisions in the bill or the bill as a whole.Ultimately, the matter is in the hands of Parliament and under its control. Apart from contingency provisions, no money will be spent without the authority of Parliament. The controls exist. If the Executive is not providing enough or sufficiently clear supporting documentation, or if the documentation is deficient in any way, it is possible to raise that in the Parliament or in the committees that are scrutinising the bill.To summarise, we in the Executive are committed to ensuring that the supporting documentation is full. We are committed to ensuring that that is part of a written understanding with this committee and with Parliament. If that written understanding is not sufficient for you or for Parliament, you can turn it down and insist that it be amended. It is your right to do so. That is a better option than including supporting documentation in bills that are there to authorise expenditure. Members should be reminded that it is possible for Parliament to withhold support for the budget bill if it feels that the supporting documentation is not satisfactory.I hope that that reassures committee members. I understand Mr Adam's desire to raise the issue and I understand exactly where he is coming from in doing so. We are going through the first budget process and I hope that we will have the opportunity to test out the systems. Those systems can subsequently be improved, using the good will that I think is essential and by addressing the principles that were adopted by the financial issues advisory group and have been adopted by this committee, by the Executive and by Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
      "SubHeadingID": 6327,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 241191,
      "EditedText": "Imagine what it would be like at level 4."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 241195,
      "EditedText": "John, you are straying into that territory again: please confine yourself to the amendment."
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241200",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 241200,
      "EditedText": "We are concluding it when Mr Adam speaks, so if you want to come in again, Mr Swinney, please do so now."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 241204,
      "EditedText": "Is amendment 11 agreed to?"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C241205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
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      "ContributionID": 241205,
      "EditedText": "No."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241206",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
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    "Committee": {
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    },
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      "ContributionID": 241206,
      "EditedText": "There will be a division."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241210",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "ContributionID": 241210,
      "EditedText": "The result of the division is as follows: For 2, Against 8."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241213",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
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      "SubHeading": "Section 4",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 241213,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone wish to comment on section 4 before I put the question on it?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241214",
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    },
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      "ID": 2098,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
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      "ContributionID": 241214,
      "EditedText": "Should it not be section 3?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C241217",
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      "EditedText": "Section 4 agreed to."
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  {
    "ID": "C241218",
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      "ID": 1399
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      "ContributionID": 241218,
      "EditedText": "Underspends in Overall Cash Authorisation"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241221",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 241221,
      "EditedText": "Again I have some sympathy with what Mr Adam has said, with the general idea that the Parliament should be aware of money that has been carried forward and with the idea that that should be as transparent as possible. There are two significant problems with amendment 12. First, it would encourage spending that is not necessarily needed. I am keen that there should be end-of-year flexibility, that we should encourage efficiencies and management action that stops spending that is not required towards the end of the year and that we enable spending to be carried forward for appropriate planning, even for two more years if that is in the interests of service or efficiencies in government. There will be occasions when savings will occur or even be planned, when plans will change or when money will not be needed any more. I think that it would be wrong to insist—as the amendment would do, technically—that the money be spent by the original programme manager. There are problems with this amendment in principle, although the intention behind it is good and strong and should be encapsulated, perhaps in relation to our previous discussion on the supporting documentation that goes with our decisions and statements throughout the year. It would be wrong almost automatically to compel managers to spend money that had not been spent on previously authorised purposes.The other difficulty is that the amendment slightly misunderstands the authorisation of resources. Individual bodies or managers would not receive money from the Scottish consolidated fund and then repay it. I think that the phrase \"repaid into the Fund\" would cause technical difficulties. Health boards, for example, do not receive money from the consolidated fund and then give it back at the end of the year. The purpose of the budget act is to authorise making a call on the fund, not to hand the cash over on 1 April and hope that it is either all spent or given back at the end of the year.The amendment is well intentioned, but it is technically wrong. It is also wrong in principle. Members may be aware, from what I said in the financial statement at the beginning of October, that I am keen on end-of-year flexibility and carrying forward savings. However, I am also keen to strike a balance between the right of managers to make use of that flexibility and the right of the corporate entity to pool resources occasionally, for use on corporate priorities. I think that that is right for the Government, as it would be for any other organisation. Therefore, I would resist any—even implied—compulsion or authorisation for people to spend money without clearly identifying the purposes to which it would be put."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "After Section 4",
      "SubHeadingID": 6329,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ID": 6329,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 241222,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 7",
      "SubHeadingID": 6330,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6330,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 241227,
      "EditedText": "I invite the minister to move amendment 13."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 7",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 241229,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 13 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C241233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Schedule 1",
      "SubHeadingID": 6331,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6331,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 241233,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 14 is minor and technical. As drafted, the bill seeks to repeal subsection 7(7) of the Housing (Scotland) Act 1988. As a consequence of the Scotland Act 1998, that section has already been repealed. The amendment would delete the proposal to repeal something that no longer exists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Schedule 1",
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6331,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 241234,
      "EditedText": "On that basis, I am sure that amendment 14 will be agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Schedule 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 241235,
      "EditedText": "Amendment 14 agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 9",
      "SubHeadingID": 6332,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6332,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 241240,
      "EditedText": "Section 9, as amended, agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1399
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2",
      "HeadingID": 6323,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": "Section 9",
      "SubHeadingID": 6332,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 6332,
      "ParentID": 6323
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 241241,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. That completes our stage 2 consideration of amendments to part 1 of the Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill.I thank the minister and members of the committee for their attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2901746+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 191055,
      "EditedText": "On Johann's point, can we clarify how frequently reporters groups are expected to meet—there was some confusion in our group. I know that every second Tuesday was going to be the slot for those meetings. Is it expected that we meet every second Tuesday, or should we meet as needs be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 191080,
      "EditedText": "It would be wrong for the committee to meet today without referring to the recent debate in the press about the Act of Settlement  1701 and the discrimination at the heart of it. I am raising the issue, because I want to know whether the committee should take a position on it, or whether it should be referred to the reporters group for consideration. The act represents discrimination and bigotry that is intolerable in today's society."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4576,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4576,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 190922,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:06"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4576,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4576,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Kate MacLean): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 190923,
      "EditedText": "I welcome you all to the Equal Opportunities Committee. I am sorry about the delayed start. The access to this and other buildings is so poor for people with any kind of disability that it has taken longer for people who are giving presentations to get in. We are all aware of that problem, which needs to be addressed seriously. Interruption. That is a nice tune."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4576,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4576,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 190924,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for my mobile phone. I have switched it off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 190925,
      "EditedText": "At the last meeting, it was decided that the committee would take an interest in the \"Improving Our Schools\" consultation document, and that we would organise the taking of evidence this morning. We will hear evidence from the Scottish Executive education department and from the Equity Group, which is an organisation of parents of children who have special needs.First, I invite Geoff Huggins, Siobhan Ennis and Mairi Macpherson to give evidence for the Scottish Executive education department. I remind members that the Executive officials are here to give evidence on the consultation document, not to answer political questions. If any member has questions or comments of that nature, we can invite the minister to give evidence. I ask members to bear that in mind when they are asking questions or responding.I do not know who is to begin. I ask Geoff Huggins to start us off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 190934,
      "EditedText": "Tommy, do you have a question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 190936,
      "EditedText": "Are there any recommendations about the kind of structures that schools ought to have in place to help young people to influence what goes on? That involvement depends on the schools, the structures they employ and the attitudes of the people who run the schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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      "ID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 190940,
      "EditedText": "Was sportscotland specifically invited to respond?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 190948,
      "EditedText": "There will be attainment performance indicators, which will be set by authorities. We are trying to identify a range of performance indicators that reflect the broad model of education. We are considering such issues as citizenship, self-awareness, confidence and creativity, a broader range of skills than just attainment. Some of those skills are difficult to evaluate, and will require an evaluation that is based on standards rather than examination or numbers.The bill sets a framework for performance indicators. However, many people have expressed the view that the bill should say something about what education is about and what the ultimate outcomes of education are, and that the national priorities should be linked to that definition. The process would flow from what we say education is about to deciding what should be measured and whether outcomes are being achieved. That is for ministers to consider, but it is a major issue arising from the consultation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 190963,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 190966,
      "EditedText": "On behalf of the committee, I thank you for coming along this morning. I hope that you will not mind returning to speak to the committee at a later stage. That was very useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 190967,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nancy Hansen (Equity Group): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 190972,
      "EditedText": "I am a research analyst from Statistics Canada on education leave, studying for a PhD at the University of Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 190973,
      "EditedText": "The Equity Group is a new voluntary group that represents disabled adults and parents of disabled children. We are strongly committed to inclusive education because we know at first hand how damaging a segregated system can be for young people.Those of you who have read our newsletter will have seen that we have listed some aims. We believe that inclusive education is an equal opportunities issue that is being denied to most disabled children in Scotland and that all children, no matter what their differences or difficulties are, should have the opportunity to attend their local school alongside their non-disabled peers, with appropriate individual support. We believe that inclusive schools are better schools and that all children benefit from the experience of being educated and spending time together.Scottish children with disabilities do not have equal access to mainstream education. As a consequence, they have diminishing, not equal, opportunities in education, and therefore throughout life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nancy Hansen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 190975,
      "EditedText": "We are asking for a clear national philosophy for inclusive education, because good education is a key part of real citizenship. We are asking for true choice, enabling disabled students to reach their full potential in a truly inclusive society. Inclusive education goes beyond ramps and toilets, although people tend to fixate on them. A truly inclusive society is one in which students are actively assisted in their pursuit of inclusive education and in which that education is actively promoted.We have to shift the balance of assumptions away from diminished expectation, to look at the untapped potential and the value of diversity in society. Excuse me—I am slightly nervous. I am a product of inclusive education. I escaped from segregated education at the age of 10. I would not be speaking to you today if I had stayed there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 190976,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Nancy. I am sorry that things seem so formal, but I hope that people feel able to relax. Perhaps this is not the best setting for people to relax when they are giving presentations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C190979",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 190979,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for what you have said. Does your group have a definition of disability? Sometimes, the definition inhibits or restricts legislation to some extent because different agencies and authorities have different definitions. I noticed that you mentioned disabilities and learning difficulties. For some agencies, learning difficulties do not come under the banner of disabilities. How wide is your definition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190983",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 190983,
      "EditedText": "I do not have any statistics, but perhaps someone else has. My son was in special education for 20 years. At the age of three, he was separated. That is a form of apartheid. If a child with special needs goes to a special nursery and a special school, it is assumed that they will go to an adult training centre. It has taken years for some parents to knock down barriers and challenge professionals' preconceived ideas about what our children can do.If I may give you some personal information, when my son left school, he had the option to go to an adult training centre special unit. With some other parents, I fought very hard and worked with the education department of the Scottish Office as it was then, and the health board and social work department in Lothian, to set up a pilot scheme for our children to go to Edinburgh's Telford College. Our children always have to jump through hoops—they are never just given the opportunity—because we have to prove that it is possible for them to do things.The scheme was a major eye-opener for many people. My son did not leave the college as a bricklayer, and my friend's daughter did not become a hairdresser, but they spent most of their days with non-disabled people in mainstream classes. There were lots of problems. Many people felt that it would not work, and for some it did not work all the time, but it proved that our children should have the opportunity and the right to spend their time with non-disabled people. When a mainstream class worked, it worked very well.Sadly, that project only lasted three years, because it was just a pilot project. I do not know of any other projects or pilot schemes in Scotland in which young people who leave school are entitled to a college place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nancy Hansen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 190986,
      "EditedText": "It has been statistically proven that even though disabled people experience more difficulty finding employment when they leave school or university, those individuals with higher levels of education and training do significantly better in the job market in the long term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190989",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Anderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 190989,
      "EditedText": "Approximately 10 authorities in Scotland are trying to do something and have attempted to make a difference. We have organised a conference on 9 December at which representatives from Sweden, Italy and New Hampshire will tell us about what they have done to their systems. Italy has not had special schools for 22 years.We cannot read in a book how to make changes; we need to have a discussion about what would work for the kids and parents in Scotland. That is why we are asking for a debate, not a template. Italy may have done some things well, but we may not want them here. We need to increase our expectations of what is possible and draw some pictures of what could be happening in Scotland in 2005."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190991",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 190991,
      "EditedText": "We are still working on amendments. We will examine all sections of the bill and try to improve them, so that we end up with a bill that entitles every Scottish child to a good education in mainstream schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190992",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Anderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 190992,
      "EditedText": "We do not have a parliamentary draftsperson in the group. If anyone wishes to join, I have membership forms with me.We have examined the bill a number of times. The sections that relate to planning for children should include all children. We wish to ensure that physical impairment, sensory impairment and intellectual incapacity are not grounds for discrimination. We are going through the bill and asking, \"How can we make sure that people are not allowed to discriminate on the grounds of disability?\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 191002,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm, your point concerning behaviour and exclusion is raised often. We are talking about two different things. In our education system, we have exclusion policies for children who have behavioural difficulties in the classroom. Those exclusion policies—as far as I am aware, as my children are well past school age—are for quite a short time; children are excluded for days, weeks or months. The situation for disabled children is that they are not even allowed to be excluded, because they are not included in the first place. We want inclusive education, where the system of exclusion would apply to all children who do not adopt the behaviour needed to participate in the class. Does that make it easier?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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      "ID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 190995,
      "EditedText": "Some of the questions that I wanted to ask were answered in that exchange. I support the group's objectives and hope to see an amendment or amendments, as you are now suggesting, that will deliver your objectives.The details of the wording can be left to the people who draft such things, but I want to clarify the principles of your amendments, although in a sense you have partly answered that query already. I was reading the suggested amendment in your newsletter, which Irene McGugan made reference to. The first few words are, \"Every disabled child\". Are you proposing that everyone should have the same entitlement? That has an impact on the current debate about whether anyone should be excluded from school for behavioural reasons. Will your amendment use the term \"every child\", or do you feel that we should try all alternatives to exclusion, but that, as a last resort, pupils who are severely disruptive, aggressive or whatever, may have to be excluded?My second question concerns the fact that your proposed amendment is couched in terms of the rights of the child. Are we talking about the rights of children or the rights of parents? Anne, I take it from your last answer that you were really talking about the rights of parents. Were you saying that if parents want their children to be educated in special schools, they should be allowed to do so, or were you not going as far as that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191001",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Enrico Barone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 191001,
      "EditedText": "From the point of view of a parent, most of us were never told that our children could be sent to mainstream schools. It is assumed, by psychologists and others, that a special needs child goes to a special needs school. We should have a choice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191012",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 191012,
      "EditedText": "What about the parallel universe within the same building?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191020",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 191020,
      "EditedText": "Has the Equity Group also made representations to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191024",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Enrico Barone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 191024,
      "EditedText": "To put it another way, 82 per cent have not had such training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191025",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 191025,
      "EditedText": "So we should tackle that at teacher training level?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191028",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 123
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Anderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 191028,
      "EditedText": "The people who are coming from Sweden to our conference have produced a report on teacher training for mainstream education in Sweden. I believe that all Swedish teachers are trained to cope with a range of need.Part of the argument is that the better trained the teacher at dealing with a range of need, the better the teacher will be. There does not need to be a child with special needs in the class for all the children in that class to benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191029",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
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    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 191029,
      "EditedText": "When you have a draft of your group's amendments, will you forward them to the committee for consideration? We may also want to discuss them with you. Thank you very much for coming along.I also thank the people in the gallery and apologise again for the fact that access is so difficult. I am glad that our witnesses have been able to come along and make representations to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191033",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 191033,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191035",
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 191035,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We have written to a number of organisations. We have not yet had written responses, but I know that at least some of them, such as the Commission for Racial Equality and the Centre for Education for Racial Equality in Scotland, would be interested in coming if the committee wants them to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191037",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4578,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 191037,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is reporters' progress reports. We will take them in the order that they appear on the agenda. Michael, you are first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191045",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 191045,
      "EditedText": "If we were considering transport in general, we could invite the ferry company, but perhaps whoever comes to the meeting to speak about the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 could address transport at the same time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191050",
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      "ID": 1034
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      "ID": 123
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1807,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 191050,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments or questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 191051,
      "EditedText": "I ask that the committee request briefing from those organisations. Can we decide on that now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191052",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 191052,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we can organise that.I do not know about lodging a question, Johann, although Martin Verity has the standing orders. I imagine that you would have to lodge a question as an individual but that, if you said that you were asking the question with the unanimous support of the Equal Opportunities Committee, the effect would be the same as if the whole committee had lodged it. I do not think that the committee can lodge a question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 191056,
      "EditedText": "It should be as needs be. People should keep that time free in case groups want to take evidence. I think that Johann meant that members should not fill up their diaries, but there is no expectation that groups have to meet so often—that is not necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C191057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 191057,
      "EditedText": "Is it just the morning that we are keeping clear?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 191061,
      "EditedText": "Will sub-group meetings always be on the Tuesdays on which the full committee does not meet? I do not know what other members think about that, but is there any chance that such meetings could be held on the same day as committee meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 191066,
      "EditedText": "Shona Robison asked about representation on the Local Government Committee. A practical point is that Johann and I are on that committee and can bring up anything that this committee wants to raise collectively. That is not to say that members could not make separate representations, but it would be a good way of raising issues that have to be dealt with immediately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 191071,
      "EditedText": "The committee previously agreed to invite the Scottish Human Rights Centre to give a presentation, but it has said that it was not yet aware of such an invitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 191072,
      "EditedText": "We will get that sorted out. Several presentations have now been requested and those will take us through until next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 191077,
      "EditedText": "No, we have not. However, the letter did not get sent until recently. That was a hiccup on my part. As soon as I get a response, I will circulate it to members of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 191081,
      "EditedText": "If the committee was going to discuss the issue, I would rather it was as an agenda item, as agendas are in the public domain. It would be unfair to discuss issues of public interest without the public's prior knowledge. I would prefer the reporters to prepare a report for the committee or for the committee to put the issue on the agenda for a future meeting so that any interested members of the public could be present. Major items are not taken as any other committee business for that very reason."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 191084,
      "EditedText": "I have a very brief report on the Women in Scotland Consultative Forum meeting that I attended yesterday. Would you prefer that in writing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4579,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 191085,
      "EditedText": "It is up to you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 191091,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:05."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 190951,
      "EditedText": "You are saying that there has to be a request for documents to be made available in a specific language or in Braille or on tape. Should people have to request that? Perhaps the committee could write to the Scottish Executive to ask that the document should be made available in other languages without people having to request it. It is a Catch 22. The process is made difficult if people have to request documents. Ideally, documents should be available in minority languages anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4463334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 191017,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your thought-provoking input this morning. I want to touch on what is perhaps a thorny issue, but one that will be raised with you: the issue of resources. Assisting and meeting the individual needs of children in mainstream education has cost implications, whether such support entails nursing, one-to-one educational assistance or whatever. What are your thoughts on that? Do you anticipate that resources will be diverted from the special needs sector, which will presumably decline, as parents, I am sure, take up the opportunity of mainstream education, albeit over a long period of time? Will some kind of bridging finance be required?My second question is quite direct. You have obviously come here today with expectations of what the committee will do. Is it your hope that the committee will consider putting through the amendment to the bill that you are supporting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4463334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 190929,
      "EditedText": "What did we learn and what did we hear? The main general theme that has come out of the consultation is that people want something in the bill that sets out a vision of what the purpose of education is. People have said that the bill is technical and that it should include some means of putting the ideas of improvement and excellence into context. When we use the words improvement and excellence, we must say what we want to improve and what we want excellence in. People want the bill to include something that reflects a broad vision of what education is about, something that says that education is not merely about literacy and numeracy, but that it cuts across the range of skills that we would expect our young people to take from their education.People are also saying that the priorities that are identified by ministers in consultation with others should also reflect that broad vision of education not being only about the key skills of literacy and numeracy. Those skills must be complemented by a wider range of other skills that young people can take with them when they leave education, that will prepare them for life beyond education and will include personal skills, learning skills and working skills.People have also said that, when we measure performance, we must go beyond simply counting things and producing tables. The education system already uses a series of quality indicators that assess a school's ethos and evaluate its performance. We have been told that we should use more of those indicators to try to understand how well we are doing in providing our young people with skills in citizenship, with interpersonal skills and with other skills on which they cannot be examined and which cannot be counted easily. Some of those skills are central to what education is about and we must take an interest in how well we are doing in providing them.There are two further elements. The first focuses on parents as co-educators and on giving them a greater role in the education of our young people. They are seen as sharing the responsibility with teachers and educators of ensuring that our young people have the skills that they will require for their later lives. The young themselves must participate in the learning process and a number of messages have come across through the consultation to the effect that we should encourage young people to take a degree of responsibility on themselves. They must be given the opportunity to participate in and to engage in the learning process, partly because that in itself is a good thing but also because, without those skills, it is difficult to engage in lifelong learning. It is about having the aptitudes and the abilities to buy into that at a later stage in their lives.There have been some equality issues highlighted in the consultation and I have tried to identify those. The first is in the context of what we say education is about. Some people have suggested that we should include in a definition, or in a model that represents what education is for, some idea of non-discrimination, fairness and equity. It has been suggested that there should be some way of promoting an understanding of those issues or that a service should be offered that is consistent with those principles. There are different ways of thinking about that, but it has not been a major component of the responses. More people have talked about a broad range of social skills, but have acknowledged that education should include an understanding of how to talk about values, different viewpoints and tolerance. That has been the bigger theme in relation to equality.Regarding performance indicators, many comments were made about the groups that might face additional challenges in the education system, which are also committed to excellence. They also want the best opportunities for young people who are in those groups. A broad model that treats them as part of a wider group is not likely to serve their needs in terms of assessing what authorities and schools are doing to promote their best interests.We must examine how we can ensure that each young person is given the opportunity to realise his or her potential. We must not see all young people as being the same, with some making the grade and others not making the grade. We must address the issues around groups such as bilingual children, children with special educational needs, excluded children and looked-after children. We must also ensure that we include within the performance indicators measures that ensure that we offer each of those groups, although in some cases they are quite small groups, the best opportunities and the best facilities to promote their education. We must avoid the dangers of seeing those groups simply as part of a larger group, because we would then be running the risk of focusing on only the larger part of the group.My final point is that the consultation included a presumption that there would be inclusion rather than separateness. There have been a number of comments made that the bill does not seem to take account of children with special educational needs, looked-after children, young carers and other groups. Our philosophy is that all those groups should benefit from the new framework. On reflection, we should have been clearer that that is our intention and that there would not be a separate process for those groups. Those groups require an excellent education system as well. A positive statement that they were included in the model would have helped.Where do we go next? We are preparing a report on the consultation process for ministers. They will have to consider exactly what it is that they want to do with the responses that have been received. Ministers have welcomed the positive and open way in which people have engaged in the consultation process. People have been keen to contribute suggestions on how to take the bill forward. That has been done constructively and new and different solutions to problems have been offered. We will be preparing the report over the next month and we hope to present a bill, the report and various other documents to the Parliament as soon as we can to give members the opportunity to fully get to grips with the issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 190930,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. That was very useful. Do members have questions to ask or feedback and comments that they would like to offer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 190933,
      "EditedText": "We also value involving young people more generally in discussing what is important in education. That requires more than consultation on this piece of legislation. We must employ on-going methodologies. Local authorities are also interested in developing on-going processes that involve young people so that they can say what is important to them. That is exciting for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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      "ID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 190935,
      "EditedText": "I will wait until Johann has finished."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 190937,
      "EditedText": "We have just received the report from Save the Children on the consultation they carried out. Young people showed a great degree of sophistication in their understanding of how schools work and of whether they do or do not work. The young people clearly put forward ideas, suggestions and proposals and raised issues that posed significant questions about the performance of schools in being effective and responsive to young people. The material in the report is interesting and will provide us with helpful information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 190938,
      "EditedText": "How many responses mentioned the role of physical education in the on-going pursuit of a definition of what education means and in finding out what should be important in our schools? I do not know whether sportscotland or other groups were involved in the consultation, but I am concerned that we do not, particularly at primary level, promote physical education to the degree that we should."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 190939,
      "EditedText": "Physical education was seen as part of the development of a broad model for education. People were keen to see us move away from the concept of attainment towards that of achievement, and that achievement should be seen in music and sports as well as in academic results, to produce whole people. A small number of responses focused on the role of sport, but it was not a major theme. It came out in the picture of what was expected of a well-rounded child in school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Ennis: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 190941,
      "EditedText": "Yes, they would have received copies of the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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      "ID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 190942,
      "EditedText": "Did they respond?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 190945,
      "EditedText": "There are many issues related to equality and education. We are trying to decide which of those issues it would be appropriate to include in the bill and which should be dealt with in other ways. The Macpherson report, with which you will be familiar, contained sections on data on racist incidents and on evaluating quality and performance plans. We feel strongly about inclusion and we will hear about that from the next group to give evidence today.I would like to focus on two points. I am not clear to what extent the curriculum can be determined or influenced centrally. Many of our concerns are about anti-racist education and gender equality issues and how we ensure inclusion of those in the curriculum. Is it possible to do that centrally, or would it be appropriate to facilitate that through legislation or in other ways?This bill will rely quite a lot on the performance indicators and on ensuring that schools and education authorities realise certain performance targets. My question is about the possible scope of those indicators. Simple examples have been given relating to attainment in reading, for example, but to what extent can equality objectives be built into the performance indicators?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 190947,
      "EditedText": "Is it true that no performance indicators are specified in the bill and that they are couched in general terms? Is the assumption that most performance indicators are about the individual attainment of pupils, or will there be general performance indicators for school activities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Ennis: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 190950,
      "EditedText": "We did not receive any requests for copies in other languages. We received requests for a Gaelic version last month so we organised a translation. We made preparations for a Braille version but there were no requests for one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 190952,
      "EditedText": "It is now quite common for local authorities, health boards and other organisations to make documents available in minority languages. Shona Robison is absolutely right, and I will be happy to raise that point on behalf of the committee with the appropriate ministers. There are very few public organisations that do not make all their information available at least in ethnic minority languages. Obviously, the accessibility of this Parliament is being talked about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C190953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 190953,
      "EditedText": "The slide on the main issues in the consultation says:\"National priorities should reflect the broad purpose of education\".I am concerned about the drift of people away from the remote rural areas where they were born and brought up. I would like some of the priorities to be more local than national. What do you mean by national? Do you mean UK or Scottish priorities? Priorities should be localised so that they are pertinent to people as they grow up, in the hope that people will stay in the area. Do you have any comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 190954,
      "EditedText": "In the model of national priorities we are trying to identify the core of what any education service should deliver, based on the model of education for Scotland with which people say they are comfortable. The core includes such things as literacy and citizenship. If the education service was not delivering that, one would not call it an education service and there would be serious concerns about what it was doing.We are trying to keep that core to a narrow group of things, and are encouraging local authorities to identify their priorities. For example, the priorities for Shetland, Highland or Glasgow should reflect different interests and the diversity of Scotland. That requires us to be disciplined and not to think of 50 national priorities, which would squeeze out local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C190955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 190955,
      "EditedText": "That is my point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 190956,
      "EditedText": "We are conscious of the fact that if we impose an extensive set of national priorities, we will squeeze out local initiative. This bill is about partnership and about having room for both the local and the central. Authorities have to cascade responsibility down to schools. Authorities have to leave room for schools to set priorities that might not be the same as those in the school down the road."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C190957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 190957,
      "EditedText": "On the question of performance indicators again—I was trying to come in after Malcolm Chisholm—in the document you have listed seven performance indicators that will form the basis for initial discussion. I may be picking this up wrong, but I am concerned about the following performance indicator:\"School occupancy—the percentage occupancy of individual schools.\"Some schools might be under-occupied and it might make economic sense to amalgamate them, but that does not take into account factors such as a school having a speech and language unit. It might seem simple to provide that in another school, but there are social issues for the young people involved.Another performance indicator about which I am concerned is:\"Special educational needs—the time taken to prepare records of needs.\"That indicator focuses on time, but should it not be about the consultation that goes on to prepare records of needs?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C190958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 190958,
      "EditedText": "Those are very good points. They came out in the consultation exercise to such an extent that, although the document says that those indicators will form the basis of discussion, we have now decided to start from what people say education is about. Although there continues to be some value in examining occupancy, we do not regard it as being as central as whether we provide a safe environment or whether we give our young people skills in citizenship. We now want to identify a better basket of performance indicators.Authorities and groups of head teachers and teachers have told me that one does not really learn anything about a special educational needs service if one decides whether it is a good service based on how quickly it produces a piece of paper. Assessment should be based more on how effectively the service performs and on how many psychologists it has, as it is ultimately about the quality of service that individual pupils receive. We agree that we need a better way of examining that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C190968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 190968,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 190969,
      "EditedText": "We are next taking evidence from Anne Harkes, Enrico Barone and Nancy Hansen of the Equity Group, which is an organisation of disabled adults and parents of children with special needs that is particularly interested in inclusive education. I welcome you to the Equal Opportunities Committee. Please give your presentation, after which the committee will ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C190974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Enrico Barone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 190974,
      "EditedText": "We identified two main problems for our children. First, we do not have a clear national philosophy of equal opportunities in education for children with disabilities in Scotland. Two children with a similar psychological profile and identical educational need, living close to each other, can end up in two completely different school settings.Secondly, professional practice is highly arbitrary. The best educational interest of the child usually lies in the parents' knowledge and determination. For most parents, choosing a school for their disabled child is not an issue of equal opportunities; it is a lottery. We all enjoy lotteries, but parents whose child's future is at stake do not enjoy them so much.Sadly, we have numbers to back up our feelings. I do not want to bother you too much with statistics, but, as a consequence of the lack of national policy, there has been no increase in the number of children with special needs in mainstream schools in the past 13 years.That it is a sad statistic on its own, but it is made even worse if one considers the general trend towards making society more inclusive. There are no problems of inclusion according to race, gender or sexual orientation, but we still have an issue about including children with disabilities in mainstream education. As someone in the Equity Group nicely put it: \"In a truly inclusive society, disabled people must be part of the social continuum.\"We believe that the essential first step towards that social continuum is inclusive education. There is no chance for a person who has been growing apart for 15 years to be included later on in life.Another statistic—I promise that it is the last one—is that, as far as we know, more than 95 per cent of adults with learning disabilities do not have any kind of employment. That is a dreadful waste of human potential. We can survive the waste of public money, but we do not like the waste of people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 190980,
      "EditedText": "I will ask one of my colleagues to go into more detail but, as a parent, I feel that if you live in the street, you go to the school—it is that simple. As I said earlier, no matter what differences or difficulties a child has, access should be wide enough that they can attend ordinary educational establishments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Anderson (Equity Group): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 190981,
      "EditedText": "My name is Heather Anderson and I am the acting secretary of the group. When we were looking at the legislation, we wondered whether we should define disability. However, we felt that that was a slippery slope. All children should be included in education, and all means all. Our job is to include children regardless of whether they have a sensory impairment, physical impairment or learning difficulties, not to categorise them so that they cannot be included."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C190982",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 190982,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I found the group's contribution to be very interesting and moving. I come from Fife, where I worked with a group of parents who were interested in what would happen to their young people with severe learning difficulties when they left school and tried to get into further education. I was interested in what Nancy Hansen said, about how she has been able to develop and, quite marvellously, is now studying for a PhD.I have listened to everything that you have said about schools, but is it your experience that when your children are ready to leave school there are still as many barriers? I think that I know the answer to the question already: there are problems for those people in getting into further and higher education. Do you have any statistics on the number of people who leave segregated special schools and enter lifelong learning, further education colleges and training centres? Is there any information on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nancy Hansen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 190984,
      "EditedText": "If someone wants statistical information, I can provide it, as I work for Statistics Canada. I can put this situation in a Canadian context, if I may be allowed to do so."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C190988",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Enrico Barone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 190988,
      "EditedText": "Very few local authorities are keen on inclusion. Pilot schemes are not enough. There are few areas in Scotland from which we can start to learn lessons. We need to apply an inclusive philosophy across the country. We cannot wait for another 20 years to learn lessons, because every year that goes by, hundreds of kids are not fulfilling their potential in mainstream education. Movement is being made on the issue, but it is not enough."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C190994",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
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      "EditedText": "We have to take people with us. From my years of work in this field I know that we are always more successful if we persuade people. At the moment, special education is there for people who want it, but we have not got what we want for our children. We need to work together. Although I do not like pilot schemes, we need to prove that all things are workable. If everyone has an open mind and an open heart on the issue of offering our children equal access and equal entitlement, we can achieve those aims. I hope that I live to see that day, but I do not want to be quoted on that because, at this stage, other parents do not feel that those aims are right.Compulsory education lasts from the age of five to 16 years, a mere 11 years of a child's life. The damage that is done by a segregated system lasts for ever."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C190996",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 190996,
      "EditedText": "How many questions did you ask, Malcolm?"
    },
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    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190997",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 190997,
      "EditedText": "I think that there were only two."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 190998,
      "EditedText": "Nancy is keen to address your points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nancy Hansen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 190999,
      "EditedText": "We want people to have a clear choice. Right now, there is no choice. Parents are offered segregated education, or they have to fight and be identified as disruptive, if they want their children to have a mainstream school experience. We would like a true choice to be offered. In some cases, children may need other types of support that are not readily available, but exclusion or segregation should not be the first option, if it is ever an option. I speak from personal experience."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Anderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 191000,
      "EditedText": "I wish to echo those points. We are not taking away anyone's rights: we are trying to get an entitlement to mainstream education, not remove anyone's entitlement to special education. We want disabled adults to have the right to be in a particular college or classroom. They should have the right to say, \"I am entitled to be in this classroom. I cannot be discriminated against and refused a place on account of my disability.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 191005,
      "EditedText": "I have come from the education sector, where I worked with a project that tried to keep youngsters who had behavioural and emotional difficulties in mainstream education. The project was an interface between seeking alternative placements and staying in mainstream education. I am, therefore, conscious of the tensions.There are clear benefits for all young people in being taught together. As adults, we all experience, at times, difficulties in being able to deal with the range of humanity, because we have been taught separately. Segregated education creates unnecessary anxieties for people and contributes to the exclusion of people with disabilities, particularly learning disabilities. Our goal must be to educate people together. I therefore support your ideas of inclusive education, entitlement and so on. What work has been done by the Scottish Executive and the Equity Group in consultation with young people with disabilities? What messages do young people give? Do they generally take the same view as the group? Is their experience of mainstream education, where it is attempted, or segregated education being recorded?My next point may already have been answered. My experience is that, in certain circumstances, young people and their parents want an alternative to mainstream education, in what they perceive as a safer environment. Do you recognise that, in our education system, changing attitudes—to get to a stage where young people and their families feel confident about being sustained, with support, in mainstream education—is a long-term goal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 191007,
      "EditedText": "There is a difference between the reality of inclusive education and the theoretical commitment to it. I have seen how the comprehensive system works: a unit or group is established, which leads to segregation within the school. In some ways, that can be more damaging to the young person than having them simply go somewhere else, where other young people with the same difficulties can support them. How would you monitor that? Often, the alternative to exclusion is for schools to hold on to young people, which can become an unhappy experience for them and for everybody in the school. Theoretically, such young people are being maintained in mainstream education, but in fact they are in another room, perhaps on their own. Has any work been done on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Anderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 191019,
      "EditedText": "We know that running a parallel system is extremely expensive. The transport costs alone of busing many children out of their local communities to different schools are enormous. The statistic that shocked me when I was researching this was that, if the Parliament decides to mainstream the system, every primary school in Scotland would have to accept only two children with special needs, and every secondary school nine. The support that the children already receive would go with them.While all the money and resources are invested in special support settings, they are not being invested in the mainstream, so children who go into the mainstream are being supported by the least-qualified, lowest-paid members of staff, that is, the auxiliaries. Bridging finance would, therefore, be a great idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 191022,
      "EditedText": "I have another point on resource implications. If children in mainstream schools are faced with teachers who have not had specialist training in coping with special needs, are we putting the cart before the horse a little?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 191030,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 191031,
      "EditedText": "You are welcome to stay for the rest of the meeting. I will suspend the meeting briefly while people leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 191034,
      "EditedText": "When we hear back from the Equity Group, we can feed its views into our discussions. We are trying to organise further representations on this matter for our next meeting. Is that correct, Martin?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4578,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 191044,
      "EditedText": "Of course, it also came to my notice that everyone complained about the price of the ferries. Improvements would have to be made in such a way that people would not have to pay any more."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 191041,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. The group also wants us to arrange briefings about the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 from the disability rights commission and another organisation. We will organise that as soon as possible. Is everyone happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 191042,
      "EditedText": "During a visit, islanders on Bute raised a small point with me about the ferries, which are very difficult for disabled people. People asked whether I could get Caledonian MacBrayne to send a deputation to the committee to talk about that. Perhaps this should be discussed under any other business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4578,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 191043,
      "EditedText": "No, it is relevant to this part of our meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 191048,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. As I said, I will write to the minister about access to information. I am surprised that materials are not made available in accessible formats. Local authorities and other public bodies had that battle 10 years ago; I am surprised to hear about it now. We should action that as soon as possible, in general rather than in response to the education bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 191053,
      "EditedText": "Do you want me to pursue that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 191054,
      "EditedText": "Yes. If the committee is agreed, when you ask the question you can say that it is with the support of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 191058,
      "EditedText": "Yes. If we had decided to meet weekly, there would be a committee meeting every Tuesday morning. The expectation was that members would spend time on committee work every other Tuesday, but it is up to groups to find the most suitable arrangement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 191060,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 191062,
      "EditedText": "That is up to the groups. It is not up to the committee or convener to prescribe when people have meetings, but when we discussed whether we should have weekly or fortnightly meetings, it was suggested that every other Tuesday could be kept free because people had already pencilled in meetings for that time in their diaries. You should discuss it with the other members of your group.As for the sexual orientation issues sub-group, Nora was appointed as reporter only last week, but has managed to get section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988 repealed already—fantastic work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 191063,
      "EditedText": "We have not met as a group yet. A meeting with the Equality Network is provisionally arranged either for tomorrow night or a week tomorrow night, depending on when most people are available.Shona Robison and I discussed what the group should consider. Section 28 was obviously top of the agenda. Speaking personally, I am delighted that section 28 will go at the first opportunity. We were invited to send a representative to the launch on Friday of a community safety partnership report by the City of Edinburgh Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Community Safety Forum. Shona went to that launch. The area that we want to examine next will be civil recognition of same-sex partnerships. That has implications for the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill.That is all, unless Shona wants to say something about the launch that she attended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 191065,
      "EditedText": "I was involved in local government when section 28 was brought in. It was vigorously opposed as a vindictive piece of legislation. Some sections of the press have handled the whole issue very maturely, but some of the language and comments in the press and from some organisations have been disgraceful. This committee should put on record the fact that we welcome the abolition of section 28. We are considering issues such as same-sex relationships in relation to the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee is considering that issue in relation to the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981. We are keen that that area of equality be finally dealt with in a mature way, which has not happened in the past. I hope that everybody agrees that we should put on record the fact that we welcome the repeal of section 28 and that we abhor the attitudes and the way in which the matter has been handled in some sections of Scottish life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 191067,
      "EditedText": "I have discussed with Michael and a few others the fact that there is no formal mechanism for this committee to become involved when the bureau designates lead committees. We need to become engaged in that process. I hope that I will be able to report back to the committee on that. I feel that we should be notified when a lead committee has been designated so that we can lay down a marker. A committee will probably not refuse to hear representatives from this committee, but I would like a more formal procedure to be in place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 191068,
      "EditedText": "I have a general point, which arose from the consultation on the Scottish education bill and the fact that there had been no requests for minority language versions. When we are consulting, do we ask people, in their own languages, if they want to be involved? If we do not, we should. Perhaps we should consider the cost implications of translating material into the main minority languages in use in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 191069,
      "EditedText": "If material is not translated into accessible formats, we will not be consulting grass-roots opinion. People working at the grass roots of equal opportunity organisations will not necessarily be able to use the kind of formats in which information is currently provided. I will raise that matter, perhaps in question time, to push the process on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 191075,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I am happy with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 191079,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 191082,
      "EditedText": "The committee agreed that the issue of sectarianism would be raised with the race reporters group. Perhaps Michael Matheson and I could discuss that at the race group's next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 191086,
      "EditedText": "I just want to get on the record the fact that a number of women MSPs—including me—attended the forum. The event was attended by more than 200 women from a range of organisations at the sharp end of working with women, particularly with women experiencing male violence. Jackie Baillie gave a presentation and Dr Fiona Mackay of the University of Edinburgh spoke on the impact of the increased number of women in the Parliament. Although women's representation in the Parliament may be high, the question is how such representation impacts on decision making.Wendy Alexander spoke at the beginning of the afternoon and Jackie Baillie stayed for the whole day, which sent out a positive message about the organisation's importance. There were a number of workshops on issues such as violence against women, health, social inclusion and poverty, and children and families. Although I was able to attend the violence against women workshop only for a short time, to say that the discussion was lively would be an understatement.Some issues that we might want to examine, such as disaggregated statistics, emerged from the meeting. The minister was certainly positive in her response to that problem. The committee is pursuing the matter of women in public bodies. Someone made the point that the voluntary organisation Engender carries out a gender audit and that perhaps the Government should take over such work. We might want to raise that issue with the Executive.There was a discussion about the rights of groups to bid into the domestic abuse service development fund. Those who attended wondered whether such funding would apply only to what might be characterised as domestic violence in the home or whether organisations such as Rape Crisis and SAY Women could also apply. Jackie Baillie thought that that was a question of identifying need and making a case and that there would be no unnecessary restrictions on who could bid into the fund. However, someone made the point that this pot of money could set groups against one another. The minister said that she would consider that.At some stage, we will need to discuss the role of the Women in Scotland Consultative Forum and how this committee and the Executive can work with it. I told the forum officials that any committee representation at forum meetings would be informal—committee members would not attend as delegates. We need to ensure that we hear what these women are saying and feed that information back to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 191088,
      "EditedText": "Our small women's group felt that that would be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 191089,
      "EditedText": "I represented the committee at a Capability Scotland conference on the new reasonable adjustments element of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. The main part of the conference was a presentation by some legal experts on the legality of that element; the presentation contained some practical examples of reasonable adjustments. I can pass on to Martin Verity the name of the organisation that gave the presentation, as it might be a useful point of contact for the briefings that Michael Matheson mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 191038,
      "EditedText": "The first meeting of the disability reporters group took place on 26 October. Michael McMahon, Irene McGugan and I were present. A number of points were highlighted, the first of which was the consultation paper on \"Improving our Schools\" and the need for it to address disability issues.I welcome what the convener said about writing to organisations. Our group had planned to ask the committee to write to organisations that may have a specific interest. The Equity Group gave an excellent presentation and I am sure that a number of other disability organisations also have strong views and would like specific issues to be addressed. It is obvious that that is being progressed. This morning's meeting has shown that—although consultation has taken place, of which ministers will take account—the committee has a responsibility to consider how much consultation input is reflected in the bill. Can we obtain copies of the consultation responses, so that we have a clear view of what was presented to ministers? We could then see which parts of the consultation have been incorporated in any published bill.We discussed published bills in which our input on disability issues may be relevant. We noted that the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill has now been published and that it will have implications for individuals with a disability. We request that the committee write to relevant interested organisations so that we can consider their views on the bill. Where necessary, we could take evidence or suggest appropriate amendments.We also discussed the issue of the disability rights commission, which had already been raised in the committee. We request that the committee be provided with a full briefing on the workings of the disability rights commission, with particular reference to Scottish provisions. If possible, that could take the form of an informal briefing for the committee as a whole.We also discussed the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, as the second part of that act has now come into force. Given the act's relevance, we request that the committee arrange for an informal briefing for all members. We also suggest that the committee consider writing to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, with a view to its making briefings available to all MSPs, particularly in relation to their working arrangements. The act has specific relevance to matters such as access to offices and access to information. It would be helpful if the SPCB were willing to arrange briefings so that MSPs can ensure that they do not break the law.Those were the primary areas discussed at the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 191047,
      "EditedText": "I go along with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 191064,
      "EditedText": "The launch was a very interesting morning. There was a lot of press interest—generally, the press coverage of section 28 was mixed, to say the least, and some of the language that was used in the tabloid press left a lot to be desired. The launch highlighted some frightening statistics about people's experiences—violent experiences in particular—as they go about their daily business on the streets of Edinburgh. I asked for copies of that report to be sent to members of this committee, so we may have an opportunity to discuss some of the detail.More generally, it is important that we maintain our input into the issue of the repeal of section 28. I want to flag up that we may want members of this committee to attend the meeting of the Local Government Committee when the local government and ethics bill is discussed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4463334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Geoff Huggins (Scottish Executive Education Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 190926,
      "EditedText": "I am responsible for managing the improvement of Scottish education bill and the consultation process. Accompanying me are Siobhan Ennis and Mairi Macpherson, who have been working on policy in the bill and on the consultation process. I shall begin by spending 10 minutes saying a wee bit about the bill and how the consultation process has worked, and about the main messages that have emerged from the consultation process, including what people have said to us on equality issues in that process. I will not go into exactly what we are doing with all that information. Members will understand that we are preparing further advice for ministers, who will want to make decisions on the basis of what the consultation process has thrown up.Members will have read the consultation document. The main elements of the bill are, in summary: new duties on ministers and education authorities to promote improvement in education; the linking of national priorities for education with local improvement objectives; a strategic framework that is to be delivered locally, which will take account of local needs; a new power of inspection of education authorities, to complement the self-evaluation in which education authorities currently engage; a new duty on local authorities to ensure that each of their schools is performing to the highest standard that it can, and a requirement to take action when that is not the case; and a new duty on authorities to secure pre-school education for those parents who want it for children in their area. With those main powers, there are some key themes that I want to emphasise.The bill is focused on realising the potential of every child of school age who is inside or outside the school system. The intention is to use the bill, which concerns itself with structures, to focus on outcomes rather than on process, in terms of objectives and priorities. We are considering ultimate outcomes, not the implementation of particular initiatives. The bill puts partnership firmly at the heart of the way of working. It identifies partnerships between authorities and the Executive, between authorities and schools, and between schools, parents and community groups. It treats that as important in the delivery of a world-class education system.Consultation is also treated as integral to the process at every stage. That will involve consulting people who know something about education, people who have an interest in education, at each step of the way, so that decisions and policies are informed by a range of views rather than simply by the views of particular organisations. We are also trying to build in additional transparency about performance and activity, so that people can know what is going on and will be better informed about the education system.Siobhan will now say something about the main consultation and the way in which we have gone about talking about the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Siobhan Ennis (Scottish Executive Education Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 190927,
      "EditedText": "During the four months' consultation period, we distributed 27,000 copies of the draft bill and the summary. As a starting point, we sent five copies of the document to all schools, for the teachers, school board members, pupil councils or forums, and other school staff. Further copies were made available on request. We also distributed the documents to education interest groups, such as local authorities, teaching unions and community education officers, as well as to other mainstream organisations, such as health boards, the police and racial equality councils. We felt that it was important to distribute the document to the widest possible range of organisations. We sent it to approximately 800 organisations, which covered a wide variety of interests.Since the consultation process started, we have received about 200 requests from other organisations and individuals who have heard about the consultation exercise through word of mouth, the press or meetings that we have held. During the past month, we have also received requests for a Gaelic version of the document. That is being prepared and will be available later this month.We felt that it was important to meet people, to explain the details of the bill and to obtain feedback, which has been very important to us. In total, we have given about 64 presentations on the improvement in Scottish education bill, in a variety of formats, from the seven public meetings that were hosted by ministers to the meetings that officials have held with virtually all the education authorities. We have also met teachers, members of school boards and parents, and we have given presentations to 13 other interest groups, including Steiner schools, the Accounts Commission for Scotland, Children in Scotland and the Edinburgh Young Carers Project.One of the key aspects of the consultation process has been the involvement of young people, whose views we have heard. Mairi Macpherson will now say something about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Mairi Macpherson (Scottish Executive Education Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 190928,
      "EditedText": "Scottish ministers were particularly keen to consult young people, as key stakeholders in education who are sometimes overlooked in consultation exercises. They were keen that we should do that in a meaningful way. In our consultation with young people we employed a range of methods. Now that the consultation is over, we will examine how effective each of those methods was. We are treating the consultation as a learning process, and would be interested to hear the committee's comments on how we could improve our consultation with young people in the future.We employed three methods, which Siobhan has already outlined in relation to the main consultation. We issued copies of the document to 56 national and local youth organisations and groups as well as to schools, which could distribute them to their pupil councils and forums. Ministers and officials attended a series of meetings, which a number of senior pupils also attended. Mr Sam Galbraith had a meeting solely with senior pupils in Edinburgh on 27 October. We also set up an interactive pupil website that ran for the period of the consultation. All pupils who had access to the internet through the national grid for learning could feed in their views through that website.The intention was to make the consultation document clear and straightforward, but it was still fairly inaccessible to young children and we had to examine other appropriate ways that we could use to consult young people. We commissioned a series of focus groups with young people aged five to 16. That work was carried out by Save the Children and, as part of their remit, we asked them to consult young people from a range of geographical areas in Scotland, from diverse ethnic backgrounds, from various social circumstances and with a variety of experience.We also worked with the Scottish Youth Work Partnership on production of materials for facilitation of discussion by youth groups of issues raised by the bill. Those materials were sent to 53 national and local groups and the young people who were involved were aged from 11 to the early 20s. We took a multi-modal approach and used a range of measures, which has been very much a learning experience. We welcome comments on how to improve that in future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 190931,
      "EditedText": "Regarding consultation with young people, was any contact made with groups that are involved with youth parliaments? Is that seen as an option for future consultation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Macpherson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 190932,
      "EditedText": "We did make contact with groups that are involved in the youth parliament. That has an interim executive at the moment and, because there is not yet an elected executive, they decided that they did not want to be involved in consultation. That will be an on-going process. Ministers are keen to consult young people on this bill and on future legislation on other issues. They want to be in contact with the youth parliament and to bring them in as soon as they are in a position to be involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Ennis: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 190943,
      "EditedText": "We have not seen a response from them but we are still receiving responses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 190944,
      "EditedText": "We have received a couple of responses from interest groups connected with such things as the Duke of Edinburgh's Award, but I do not recall that a group specifically related to sports has responded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 190946,
      "EditedText": "Although there is central guidance, there is no statutory curriculum in Scotland; that is largely for local authorities to decide on. Most authorities follow the curriculum, so there is room to influence what happens at local level, but we do not think that legislation is the way to do that. We intend that the curriculum should continue to be a matter for guidance.There are two or three ways in which performance indicators might reflect equality issues. One area of concern has been the school as a safe environment, that is, as an environment in which young people feel safe and comfortable. We are keen that issues such as bullying, on whatever basis, should be addressed in national priorities. National priorities should reflect ethos issues, which are important to child development and promoting opportunities.That comes back to what we have heard in the consultation process.  We will have to identify some specific priorities for particular groups within overall performance indicators and priorities, so that we focus on the challenges that are faced by those groups. Rather than applying the same model and expectations to all, we must divert such effort as we can to ensure that we raise expectations among groups that might be demotivated by general targets.There are questions about what priorities we set, and about how we work within priorities to develop a broad picture that takes account of different needs, very much starting with the model that the aim is to raise the potential of every child, and not just the 80 per cent of children who fall nicely somewhere in the middle. That is the challenge for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 190960,
      "EditedText": "Although we use performance indicators as shorthand, we should say measures of performance. The commitment in the document and the requirement in the bill is that the measures of performances should be consulted on before they are agreed. Consultation with local authorities and others with an interest is required at the moment. In response to the document, people have said that we should also specifically include parents, children and young people as groups to be consulted. We have already undertaken some of that consultation in talking with people about the bill.Although it is clear that ministers will talk generally about their thoughts on identifying measures of performance and national priorities, it would be inappropriate for them to say what the measures of performance and national priorities will be, as that would exclude the consultation to which ministers have committed themselves.Perhaps the best indication of the areas that we will be considering is given in paragraph 12 on page 9 of the document. It is very much an outcome-focused model of what education is intended to offer. In some ways, that has been our conceptual starting point for identifying what we measure and how we measure it. I cannot give you any commitment on behalf of ministers, as the process stipulates otherwise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 190961,
      "EditedText": "I will move on the issues of the consultation. You talked about the purpose of education. One purpose is to prepare people for when they will not be in education and will go into the workplace. I have spoken to employers who feel that, occasionally, education does not provide the type of people that they would like to employ or have to employ, given equal opportunities legislation on gender, race and disability. Whether or not it is an excuse, employers say that education does not ensure that people coming through schools are able to take up employment. How much consultation has there been with employers? What responses have they made to the document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 190962,
      "EditedText": "We have passed the document to various employers' organisations and employment partnerships and have had some comments back that focus on the need to use education to prepare young people for the work environment. We certainly take those messages seriously. A number of skills that we identify as key skills that should form part of national priorities are ones that support people going into the world of work.However, we also think that education has a wider purpose: to prepare young people for life and to give them a range of opportunities, which are not necessarily only related to work. Preparing young people for life and preparing them for work are not exclusive; they are equally important. In particular, key skills such as communication, literacy, numeracy, and being able to work with others are important. Rather than focusing on particular qualifications or examinations, employers have tended to tell us that they want skills, so that they can train people and make them effective employees. There have not been many comments from employers' groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C190964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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      "ID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 190964,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the grant to education authorities for pre-school provision will disappear eventually and become part of the mainstream provision of funding to the authorities. They are in partnership with certain providers at the moment, and the bill will suggest that they look for others. Is that enough, to ensure that they do so and that, once the grant goes, if someone else is providing a specialist pre-school service, they continue to take that on board as a partnership arrangement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Huggins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 190965,
      "EditedText": "The bill is carefully drafted to require education authorities to secure provision rather than to provide it themselves. It provides for ministers to issue guidance, which authorities are required to take account of in deciding how to offer a pre-school service. That has been seen as a significant protection in respect of such issues, to ensure that the most effective provision is made available to the widest group of people. We have been conscious of that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes (Equity Group): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 190970,
      "EditedText": "I thank the Equal Opportunities Committee for allowing us to speak this morning and I apologise that we have put this presentation together at short notice. We are not polished speakers but we will speak from the heart.It is good to have a Parliament here in Edinburgh that is—we thought—accessible to the people. As we found out this morning, the physical accessibility is not good. However, I welcome the opportunity to speak to our MSPs.I am the mother of a young man with significant learning difficulties who spent 20 years in special education. I am also chair of the newly set up Equity Group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Enrico Barone (Equity Group): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 190971,
      "EditedText": "I am the father of five-year-old boy with learning difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 190977,
      "EditedText": "I will sum up and finish our presentation.Within the Equity Group, there are people who for years have been actively supporting individuals and parents in campaigning against the system that segregates disabled people. We believe that the time to bring that inequality into the public arena is long overdue. We would like a debate in Parliament about inclusive education.It is ridiculous, and a telling indictment of our society that in Scotland, at the end of 1999, we still need an unfunded and voluntary pressure group such as ours to fight for equal rights for 15 per cent of our children. We were dismayed to see that there was no mention of equal opportunities or inclusive education in the improvement in Scottish education bill. There needs to be more than a presumption of inclusion, in order for our children to be included. As was said earlier, we need a national philosophy of inclusive education. We would like the Equal Opportunities Committee to proof read the bill or the amendments to the Scottish education act that will be going before the Parliament. We would like you to promote inclusion and fight discrimination at every level that you encounter it. Ultimately, we want all Scottish children to have equal entitlement to good-quality Scottish education in a mainstream setting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 190978,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 190985,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 190987,
      "EditedText": "You are asking us to consider a national philosophy of inclusive education. As politicians, we tend to look for examples of best practice, wherever they may be. Are there no examples of best practice in Scotland, or are there areas that may be used as examples of how things can be done better? Is the situation universally bad?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 190990,
      "EditedText": "Basically, there is a parallel education system in Scotland, in which 15 per cent of our kids are being taught. The Equity Group wants to break down that parallel system, so that eventually it does not exist.I understand that the Equity Group will propose amendments to the education bill. What will those amendments be? I know that there is a proposed amendment in one of your newsletters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 190993,
      "EditedText": "Is it your aim that there should be no special units at all, or are they appropriate in some cases?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C191003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 191003,
      "EditedText": "I asked the question only because the earlier amendment that I was shown when I met someone from your group before would have given everybody the right to such education. I accept that, but I was thinking about selling the idea to the public. Your amendment would include every single person in Scotland, which may cause difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191004",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 191004,
      "EditedText": "We are learning as we go along and realise that that may not be the right way to do things. However, we want our aims and objectives to be clear. We want all children at least to have the entitlement to be educated alongside their non-disabled peers. We want parents to be given the information in the early days that mainstream education is a possibility. At the moment, as Enrico says, nobody ever even says that it is an option. Parents of other children in nurseries are given letters saying that their child is due to go to such a local school on such a date. That does not happen to parents with children with special needs. The automatic assumption is that children with a special need will go to a special school somewhere. The child may have to be bused across the country or across the city. A child with hearing or sight difficulties in Inverness may have to be sent to Edinburgh. Few options are offered. No one comes to say that the local school will support the child's education. We are therefore asking for entitlement and information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191006",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Anderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 191006,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C191008",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 191008,
      "EditedText": "I would like to bring in Shona McInally on the question of the views of people who have been in segregated education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona McInally (Equity Group): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 191009,
      "EditedText": "I am a full-time student at the University of Edinburgh. Last year, I worked with Carina Mitchell from Dundee to gather research from young people and parents on what they felt that they would gain from inclusive education. We wanted to know whether the young people wanted to access mainstream education. We consulted more than 90 young people and parents all over Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Glasgow.The feedback from children without a disability in mainstream education was very positive. They felt that they were missing out and wanted to encourage children with disabilities to work alongside them. We also spoke to young adults who had been through the special educational system. They said that they felt that they had missed out and that they would have liked to access mainstream education, but did not have the choice. We spoke, too, to children who were in a specialist setting. They said that they encountered problems that many people assumed would occur within the mainstream setting—bullying, not having any friends outside the specialist setting and not knowing anybody in their community. They expressed a deep wish to be with their peers in their communities in a mainstream setting. The extensive research, which is available, was done over a three-month period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Anderson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 191010,
      "EditedText": "Membership of the group is open to anyone over 14 who agrees with the group's aims, so any young person who wants to join can. We are a new group. We have sent out membership forms and membership is growing. Young people are welcome to take part.It will take a long time to change attitudes, and the longer that we separate children, so that they do not learn about one another, the longer it will take. We are perpetuating the system that you talked about, where children grow up not knowing anybody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 191011,
      "EditedText": "What was the other part of your question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191013",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nancy Hansen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 191013,
      "EditedText": "I will speak from my experience in Canada, if I may. Although I live in Scotland, members will be able to tell from my accent that I am not from here.To be segregated is to be second class—always. Special is never equal; it is different. I got all my social and coping skills from dealing with everyday school and university activities. Those are skills that one uses in every aspect of one's daily life outside education, without even being aware of it. Inclusive education also educates one's non-disabled peers. I do not necessarily bond with people because they happen to have disabilities. There is, however, an understanding that I have been able to develop as an adult—a middle-aged one now, but an adult none the less—as effectively as I have, because of my educational experience. One cannot put a price on that and it cannot be found in a textbook, because nobody talks about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 191014,
      "EditedText": "You also mentioned parents' fears, which are a major problem. Nobody who talks about inclusive education is talking about dumping a child with a special need in a class of 30 people; it is about supporting children with special needs appropriately within a mainstream setting. If a child needs an auxiliary, a speech therapist or whatever, that support would be provided in a mainstream school alongside other children doing similar activities. As Heather said earlier, we do not have a template—we do not have all the answers—but we do know that such an approach can work.There is an excellent example in Edinburgh of a young boy with quite profound learning and physical disabilities who has been successfully integrated into a local school. The trigger was the mother seeing early on that her twin sons were being separated, because one of them had significant learning and physical disabilities. She was an articulate and determined young woman, so her son has been in Liberton Primary School for the past five or six years. Thanks to his mother's hard work, he and she are now looking forward to the boy being placed with his classmates in the local secondary school.Parents have many fears, but it is up to us, to educationalists and to our Parliament to ensure that they do not have to fear something that will benefit their children in later life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 191015,
      "EditedText": "I may open up a can of worms with this question. You said that some parents are still in favour of separate units. Could it be that, although a child's educational needs can be met in a local mainstream school, parents find it difficult to cope because adequate respite and other provision is not made? Do kids perhaps end up in residential schools, not necessarily because of their educational needs, but because the social work department is not providing enough support outwith school?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 191016,
      "EditedText": "That can be the case whether one's child is in a special school or not. Back-up systems for respite for children with special needs are not adequate. If a child moves to a local primary school from a residential school, there will certainly be a need for further support for the family."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 191018,
      "EditedText": "The committee has not yet seen our amendments, but we did ask in the early part of the presentation that the committee proof read the bill from an equal opportunities perspective. I imagine that it is the committee's job to examine all the bills that go through our new Parliament. I would ask the committee to be very circumspect when it considers this bill to ensure that what we are asking for—an entitlement and equal opportunity for all our children—is achieved. I also want the committee to promote inclusion and to challenge discrimination on all levels at every opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191021",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 191021,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nancy Hansen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 191023,
      "EditedText": "I believe that, at present, only 18 per cent of teachers in the special education sector have had specialist training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C191026",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Harkes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 191026,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Teacher training will be covered in our submission to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. Teacher training courses do not include very much on children with special needs, but every teacher needs those skills."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C191027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 191027,
      "EditedText": "I would have thought that it would be a basic requirement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C191032",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 191032,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 191036,
      "EditedText": "Is it agreed that we should try to get more organisations to come along? We can have our discussion after we have heard from everyone.Members indicated agreement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 191039,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Does anyone else who was present at the meeting have anything to add? No.On \"Improving our Schools\", we can ask for copies of the consultation responses. I do not know whether we will be given them, but we can certainly ask.We have said before that the committee would consider the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Bill. We can write to all the organisations that deal with the issues that the committee is concerned with, including sexual orientation and gender issues. Did you say that you wanted us to arrange briefings or to request written responses?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C191046",
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    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
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      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McGrigor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 191046,
      "EditedText": "Anyway, the issue has reared its head."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 191049,
      "EditedText": "As reporter for the group on gender issues, I have provided a written report, from which I will highlight a few points. It was obvious—this will be true for all the groups—that there is a huge amount of work that we could do. It is a question of identifying some priorities in the short term. As our report states, we agreed to examine two strands concerning women in the judicial system. The first is how women are treated as witnesses or victims—when they have experienced crime—and the document referred to in our report has now been circulated to the group. I have yet to determine the status of that document, but we can make progress on that point.The group believes that the way in which women come into the criminal system and are treated as offenders raises many issues. A number of groups have recognised that, when women offend, there is a connection with prostitution, drugs and so on. We can explore that whole area.Our report refers to a document by Sheila McLean on the treatment of women offenders, which I understand is in the process of being published. We can examine that once it is available.We felt that we wanted to pursue the issue of women's appointments to public bodies. We discussed whether the committee could lodge questions on that, as such questions would carry more authority than those lodged by individual MSPs. I am more than happy to draw up the questions, if the committee agrees that it wants to do that. Perhaps we could find out whether that is possible. In particular, we want to find out the numbers involved if the figures are disaggregated and the figure for women in the panel system is removed. We also want to consider some aspects of the appointment system, such as whether the criteria for appropriate candidates on the boards are discriminatory and how the appointments are publicised. People sit in judgment on the applications and we need to examine the system, because it is obviously unsatisfactory.If members so desire, I can report later on the consultative forum that I attended yesterday. Several recommendations are listed at the end of our report, for which we seek the committee's approval. On zero tolerance, it was suggested that we hear from Rape Crisis and Sexually Abused Young Women, a group that offers housing and support. We need to strike a balance, however; the full committee cannot listen to every group and every briefing. The idea behind the sub-groups is to give us the opportunity to tap into more external organisations. However, we should remember that meetings of the whole committee are on the public record, while those of the sub-groups are not, and that there will be occasions when it is important to get things on to the public record so that they are accessible. I would argue that that would be the case if we invite the Zero Tolerance Trust, SAY Women and the Rape Crisis Centre to a full committee meeting.On a practical point, we have agreed to meet next Tuesday. If the sub-groups are to operate properly, I am keen that we keep every other Tuesday free, as it is an obvious slot for sub-groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C191059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 191059,
      "EditedText": "Given that the group on race issues had already done a report, I felt that it would be appropriate to allow other groups to meet without having to find convenient dates for members with an interest in more than one area. Johann Lamont asked when and how frequently meetings should be held. The race issues group will hold a meeting in November at which we will set out a programme of work. We did not hold a meeting in October, to allow other groups to hold their first meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C191070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 191070,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise a different issue. Last week, Johann Lamont and I attended the meeting of the cross-party working group on human rights. Human rights organisations want to set up a commission for human rights and would like to make representations to the Equal Opportunities Committee. Johann and I were asked by the cross-party group to find out whether any of those organisations had been invited to appear before the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 191073,
      "EditedText": "We have received quite a lot of correspondence; if members are interested in looking at it, they should contact the clerks, Martin or Rodger. It includes a couple of invitations and if members are interested in those they should also contact the clerks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C191074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 191074,
      "EditedText": "Before he left, Malcolm Chisholm asked me to ask whether there had been a decision on Disability Scotland. He has been approached to chair the afternoon session of the symposium in Stirling and wants to know whether he can attend on our behalf."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C191078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 191078,
      "EditedText": "I should perhaps mention that I went to the Communication Workers Union conference on Saturday. The committee was asked to send someone to speak on disability and I did that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 191083,
      "EditedText": "Are all members agreed? That is agreed.Is there any other business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 191087,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee wish to designate a member who would attend these forum meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C191090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 191090,
      "EditedText": "I think that our business is concluded. Thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5569384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C191040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4578,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ID": 4578,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 191040,
      "EditedText": "At this stage, the group considered written requests for submissions. We would seek to have further briefings later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.6952713+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 190959,
      "EditedText": "Will you clarify whether the performance indicators will be published at the same time as the bill or after it has been passed? I would be concerned if the performance indicators did not come out until the bill has been through Parliament. My question is about the housekeeping of the bill and about the time scale for the performance indicators."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Improving Our Schools”",
      "HeadingID": 4577,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 4577,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 190949,
      "EditedText": "Siobhan Ennis said that 27,000 copies of the consultation document were distributed and that the department was responding to a request for the document to be made available in Gaelic. Were any copies made available in other minority languages, in Braille or on tape?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C191076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 1034
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4579,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4579,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 191076,
      "EditedText": "A few meetings ago, when Jim Wallace came to speak to us, we agreed to send him a letter expressing concern about the handling of the consultation process and the lack of consultation. Have we had any response?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4463334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 3141,
      "EditedText": "I think that Andrew was expressing a concern on the record, and I am sure that the minister will note it.Let us get to work. Is paragraph 1 agreed to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 3143,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments on paragraph 2, \"Background\"? This is about ministers'\"powers to direct the format of accounts\",which \"should include a comparison with the previous financial year . . . be wide-ranging and cover both resources and performance information.\"Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 3145,
      "EditedText": "If I have understood you correctly, you are trying to clarify what the comparison should be. You are saying that, included in the comparison, there should be a figure for percentage change, rather than just the figures themselves. Do members want to comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 3149,
      "EditedText": "Can I seek clarification from Sarah? She will recall the amendments that we suggested to the written understandings between the Executive and the Finance Committee, which made many of the same points. What is the distinction between the form of accounts and what we were suggesting with regard to the Executive's budget proposals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 3151,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to go through the same discussion as I had in the Finance Committee. Brian alluded to transparency. There are other points that need to be addressed, which I raised at that committee meeting, but I will leave them to one side. Can I assume that the relevant information will be picked up from the Finance Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 3165,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 3 deals with powers of direction. This part of the document tells us which bodies are covered. Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 3166,
      "EditedText": "Your opening remarks included a statement that the minister had the power of direction in consultation with Parliament. We represent Parliament on this matter. Although reference to that consultation appears in paragraph 5, it does not appear in paragraphs 3 and 4. Paragraph 3 could have included reference to consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 3168,
      "EditedText": "I was going to suggest that the final sentence in paragraph 3—\"The Scottish Ministers also possess powers under various pieces of legislation to direct the form of accounts of various other public bodies (such as NDPBs)\"—should conclude with \"in consultation with Parliament\" or \"in consultation with the Audit Committee\", whichever was felt appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 3169,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean in consultation with either Parliament or the Audit Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 3170,
      "EditedText": "I think that it should read \"in consultation with the Audit Committee\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 3174,
      "EditedText": "I am looking to Andrew for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 3175,
      "EditedText": "We should make the point that we want the ministers to activate those powers, because I would like to ensure that the form of accounts across the public sector is the same. We need a form of words to do that, so that the accounts of non-departmental public bodies, executive agencies and—less important—local authorities slot in with the form of accounts of departments of the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 3176,
      "EditedText": "That is a different point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 3178,
      "EditedText": "I am not clear. I want clarification from the clerk on what is meant by powers of direction. The paper includes three paragraphs under the heading \"Powers of direction\". Paragraph 5, as Brian indicated, says that\"the Scottish Parliament must be properly consulted before any new direction is made or before an existing direction is revised substantially.\"Is that generic to paragraphs 3 and 4?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 3181,
      "EditedText": "I want all bodies that are in receipt of public funds to account for their budgets. If one follows the route of spending, from the enterprise budget, for example, to the agencies, the budgets do not mirror one another in a way that makes them easy to compare. What I am getting at is that there may be difficulties. I am asking, therefore, for advice before we amend this paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 3182,
      "EditedText": "In other words, you want to know what the technical problems are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 3184,
      "EditedText": "So, you are after clarity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 3189,
      "EditedText": "We might be able to do that by inserting an amendment to paragraph 5 that says that the Scottish Parliament must be properly consulted before any new direction is made, including those mentioned in the foregoing paragraphs. We will, however, clarify that that sentence is generic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3193",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 3193,
      "EditedText": "That brings us to the point on paragraph 5, which the clerk will look at. We have said that directions\"may be revoked and replaced as the Scottish Ministers see fit\",and that they\"must be in writing and they are binding\".If I understand it correctly, the committee is saying that there should be some relationship with the Audit Committee. In the light of those comments, the clerk will redraft the paragraph for our consideration. I will take our comments on paragraphs 3, 4 and 5 together. The clerk will produce a draft for our perusal and approval—or otherwise—that reflects the fact that we want to activate the powers of direction, use the same form of accounts for all bodies involved and ensure consultation with the Audit Committee.We move on now to paragraph 6 on the supporting documents for budget bills. Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 3202,
      "EditedText": "I moved an amendment this morning that covered some of those points, but the minister declined to accept it, although he said that he would address the issue. My amendment was that, in terms of the new resource account budgeting procedure, any carry forward should be limited to 2 per cent, and that that money should be spent on the purpose for which it was voted on in the previous year. The minister had one or two technical objections to the detail and also objected to the principle; he said that he would prefer to deal with the matter in this written understanding. Again, we should expect the minister to come forward with some details."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 3204,
      "EditedText": "Do you wish to leave this as a comment, or do you wish to propose a form of words?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 3206,
      "EditedText": "Does it satisfy the committee that these views will be on record for the minister to read?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 3209,
      "EditedText": "There is a loose reference to a projected balance sheet. A balance sheet usually implies an inclusion of capital and liabilities. Again, I want capital specifically to be included with reference to the budget bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 3217,
      "EditedText": "By what date must we finalise our comments on the memorandum?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 3222,
      "EditedText": "That is the purpose of this meeting. We are now clarifying which areas we want further information on. I would like us to make reasonable speed. Once the clerk has prepared the background papers that we are requesting, I hope that we will have an early opportunity to look at them. The purpose is not to delay the measure; it is to get clarity. That is why it is useful to collate these details. There are various reminders to the minister in the record of these proceedings; there are also items for clarification. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 3224,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 7 is about the operating cost statement, the balance sheet, the capital expenditure plan, the operating budget and\"Operating Statements for each Programme, together with performance indicators and targets for the year. Statements will contain analysis of proposed expenditure and expected income\".It also covers\"any further tables/analysis considered necessary.\"Are there any comments on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C3235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 3235,
      "EditedText": "I have a similar point. If we were to suggest an amendment, it would not be acceptable to use a phrase such as \"as low a level as possible\". We have to be much more specific. I have some sympathy with the level of detail that Brian suggested, but that may well become impractical. We need to work out our exact wording. The sentiments that Brian expressed are laudable and right. We want meaningful information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 3236,
      "EditedText": "Convener, it is not unreasonable to ask the Executive to clarify what it means by disaggregated level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 3239,
      "EditedText": "It may have been last week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 3241,
      "EditedText": "Can you remember what was decided?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 3243,
      "EditedText": "We want to clarify what that means."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 3245,
      "EditedText": "That should be clarified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 3246,
      "EditedText": "When I was trying to produce an appropriate amendment, I discussed this issue with those who were advising on the amendment and the form of words used was \"sub-programme level\". Rather than trying to tie it down to amounts of money, that probably achieves what Andrew is looking for, but does not go as far down as asking how many paper clips are going to be ordered this year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 3250,
      "EditedText": "The principle is that the accounts and the budgets should be mirror images of each other. That improves clarity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 3253,
      "EditedText": "He said that that information will go in the supporting documents. He did not want it in the bill. That was discussed this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 3254,
      "EditedText": "I have one further point. There ought to be a statement that says that a review of this agreement can be initiated at the request of this committee. If we feel that the agreement is not delivering what we want, we should be able to request a review of the agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 3260,
      "EditedText": "The document is an understanding; no legal rights or obligations are conferred. Brian is asking for it to be written into that understanding that the committee can request a review. It has no power to instigate one, but it could request one. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3267",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 3267,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 3270,
      "EditedText": "The Finance Committee moved fairly quickly through the business of dealing with amendments this morning. Depending on how many additional amendments are lodged this week, I am fairly confident that we might complete the business next Tuesday without having to have a second meeting. It might be premature to agree a third session at this point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 3271,
      "EditedText": "The clerk is confident. Let us not ruin her confidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 3273,
      "EditedText": "Is the meeting in the week beginning 15 November agreed to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 3274,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3281",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 3281,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that we will have a briefing on Tuesday 16 November between 1 o'clock and 2 o'clock?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3284",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 3284,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 49,
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 3136,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 13:05"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 3140,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful if I were to clarify for the committee that members have until this Friday to lodge amendments for stage 2 of the bill."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3142",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
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      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 3142,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3144",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 3144,
      "EditedText": "I am quite happy with the general statement, but it might be helpful for it to be made a little more specific. I believe that that point was also raised at the Finance Committee. Perhaps the third sentence could read: \"Accounts should include a comparison with the previous financial year, including percentage change.\" That would make the paragraph easy to understand immediately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 3146,
      "EditedText": "We are saying that the accounts should be set out in such a way that they can be understood by laypersons. It is a good suggestion to include a plus or minus figure for percentage change, which would indicate upward or downward movement. Could that be incorporated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3147",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 3147,
      "EditedText": "A percentage change figure would indicate that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3148",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 3148,
      "EditedText": "Aye, but we need to include a plus or a minus."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C3152",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
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      "ID": 103
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 3152,
      "EditedText": "If the committee wishes, the clerks could read information across the Audit Committee and Finance Committee, but I would want to be clear that that was the wish of the committee."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3153",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 3153,
      "EditedText": "Is that the wish of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 3155,
      "EditedText": "The changes that were proposed were, for example, to provide information on year-on-year changes, to remove inflation from the figures and other obvious points. Those changes will improve transparency. I think that the Finance Committee agreed to them unanimously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 3156,
      "EditedText": "Should I compile proposed changes in a draft and circulate it to members, so that they can see what the Finance Committee's views were?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 3157,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 3158,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 2 of the draft document states:\"Accounts should include a comparison with the previous financial year.\"My amendment would go after that. The document does not state how detailed the accounts will be. I think that we will want accounts that are more detailed than to departmental level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 3160,
      "EditedText": "Does it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 3161,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 8 states:\"Information will be disaggregated to the same level as in the budget documentation.\"Will you raise your point when we consider that paragraph?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 3163,
      "EditedText": "If there are no more comments on paragraph 2, I will sum up. If I have this right, we are saying that after\"comparison with the previous financial year\",the words \"including plus or minus percentage change\" should be added. The clerk has agreed to produce for our consideration a draft document of the points made at the Finance Committee. Those are the two decisions that we have taken. Is paragraph 2, with those alterations, agreed to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 3164,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 3172,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I am willing to go along with \"and will use them in consultation\", but we should specify that we should be consulted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 3185,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 3186,
      "EditedText": "We will, therefore, ask the clerk to examine that issue and to give us a draft so that we can ensure clarity and uniformity in the presentation of accounts. Perhaps the clerk could check the technical difficulties that may arise in finding a form of words that will achieve what Andrew seeks. It is an important point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 3191,
      "EditedText": "Have we now dealt with paragraphs 3, 4 and 5?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 3192,
      "EditedText": "I was concerned about the final sentence in paragraph 4, which says that directions\"may be revoked and replaced as the Scottish Ministers see fit.\"I was more concerned that we put in a bit about consultation with the Audit Committee at that point. As it stands, the sentence looks rather stark."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 3196,
      "EditedText": "This paragraph set down the purposes, the amount, the expected income and proposed treatment, but what you want is a closer identification of recycled moneys within that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 3197,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The source of money should be absolutely clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 3198,
      "EditedText": "Do you have a form of words to cover that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 3205,
      "EditedText": "Again, my recollection is that the minister offered to put something on that point into a memorandum of understanding. We should leave it to him and his officials to come forward with a form of words that we can consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 3208,
      "EditedText": "Annabel Goldie also brought up the question of capital. I am not aware that for this purpose the Executive sees the difference between capital and revenue. There was no specific discussion about capital but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 3211,
      "EditedText": "It seems to me, Euan, that if we want transparency of the financial position for what will effectively be a national budget for Scotland before the Parliament is asked to approve or disagree to proposals for raising or spending money, we will need to know whether there is any carry over. We will need to know whether there is anything that may mitigate the need to raise or to spend money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 3215,
      "EditedText": "Could we perhaps have some explanation from the officials of whether there is any distinction between capital and revenue in terms of the budget? Annabel raises an important point. I suspect that the Executive does not want to hoard capital, but the only reference that we will have to that will be the capital expenditure plan. The capital will come from the current revenue, or at least be financed from the current revenue. We need some guidance on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 3221,
      "EditedText": "We need further information to clarify matters. We are unsure about what some of this means."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 3223,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 3225,
      "EditedText": "Following from what Annabel was motivated by in the last section, I wonder if the following would be helpful on the last two bullet points on page 2 of the document.On the capital expenditure plan, we really want to seek a wider capital account statement. That would include listing existing capital assets and showing how their value was changing by depreciation or whatever else, and listing all—rather than just large—new expenditure projects individually, so that we could see where in the accounts the capital assets would have been added to, and how much that was costing. Alternatively, we could have a form of words which says what I have just said in a way that is more acceptable—and accurate.In the same way, and related to the capital expenditure plan, because much of the current capital expenditure is supported in a different way from revenue going into capital projects—in other words, through private finance initiatives and public private partnerships—a similar plan for PFI and PPP agreements would be helpful. That plan would list all projects individually, along with the annual expenditure servicing them. To an extent, we could get that information in \"Serving Scotland's Needs\" and by further questioning, but it would be helpful to have it in the form of accounts. That would mean a change to the third bullet point under paragraph 7 and an additional bullet point below that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 3226,
      "EditedText": "Do you have a form of words for that, or do you want the clerk to work on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 3227,
      "EditedText": "What I said was roughly what I had written down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 3230,
      "EditedText": "I ask the clerk to consider that and advise us on how to proceed. Are there any further points on paragraph 7, or can we agree it with that caveat? We are agreed.Paragraph 8 states\"The format of accounts will report spend against budgets. Information will be disaggregated to the same level as in the budget documentation.\"Are there any comments on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 3232,
      "EditedText": "Some clerk has toiled for years to get this into shorthand; now we are turning it back into longhand. However, we are doing it for a good purpose. You are saying that instead of the phrase \"disaggregated to the same level\", you want the details of the level to be spelled out to a reasonable level to clarify where the funds are coming from."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 3233,
      "EditedText": "To begin with, we should go for as low a level as reasonable, although reasonable is never a good word to use—it is too open to interpretation. If we then discover that we are getting more detail than we need, we can say so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 3234,
      "EditedText": "Brian makes a good point. I, too, was unclear as to what \"disaggregated to the same level\" meant. I do not know to what level it is reasonable for the Executive to have to provide that further definition of financial amounts. Perhaps the clerk can advise us on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 3249,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to come to a judgment as to what this committee thinks is reasonable. There will be dialogue between this committee and the minister. In seeking out technical expertise, the clerk will ensure that the issue is considered. We seek to get the maximum clarity so that we can understand the mechanism, which is our duty. We need some technical input to say what is reasonable and what is unreasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 3256,
      "EditedText": "That implies that it is done by the minister. That relates to the powers of direction. I want only to put in writing that we can ask for the whole agreement—not just the particular part that is referred to by 3, 4 and 5—to allow the committee to seek a review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 3257,
      "EditedText": "The minister has all the powers of review and this committee has the right to ask him or her to come and explain what he or she has done, but you are saying that the committee should have the power to ask for a review. The committee cannot instigate one, but it can put a request to the minister. What you are asking for is an additional right of this committee to seek a review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 3258,
      "EditedText": "Why are we inhibited from asking for a review at any time? Surely it is within the power of the committee to review this matter at any stage. Do we need to spell that out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 3261,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is understood."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ID": 51,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 3268,
      "EditedText": "The committee will meet at 2 pm on Tuesday 16 November to complete stage 2 consideration of the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill. I ask you to note that Parliament has agreed a deadline for completion of 19 November. If it proves impossible to deal with all outstanding amendments in one meeting in the week beginning 15 November, it will be necessary to schedule an additional meeting. That means no verbosity. Let us stick to the issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ID": 51,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 3272,
      "EditedText": "Although the deadline is Friday at 5.30 pm, we would very much appreciate amendments as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 51,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 3275,
      "EditedText": "We come to a matter that could be a bit of a problem. The committee has to agree a date and time to be briefed by the NAO on the report, \"Emergency Planning for the Year 2000\", which will be considered on Tuesday 23 November.I should point out an error in your committee papers relating to possible dates for the NAO briefing. The paper states that, in addition to a meeting after 5 pm or at lunch time on Tuesday 16 or Wednesday 17 November, we could meet in the morning or afternoon of those days. That is not correct. The committee already has a meeting scheduled for that Tuesday afternoon to consider the finance bill and it cannot meet on Wednesday afternoon because Parliament will be in plenary session. Only the mornings of those days are possible, but that could mean that there will be clashes with other committees.During an informal meeting, there was a suggestion that a meeting from 1 o'clock to 2 o'clock on Tuesday 16 November would suit a lot of folk. Could those who were not at that informal meeting look in their diaries and see if that would be possible? It was felt that meeting at lunch time would speed the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ID": 51,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 3276,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that, because it is an informal meeting, there are no constraints on members bringing their lunches along?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ID": 51,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 3277,
      "EditedText": "That is correct; just do not crunch or munch too loudly. If people want to keep themselves alive with sandwiches, they are welcome to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 2 November 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 49,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 49,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andrew Welsh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 3137,
      "EditedText": "I call members to order and welcome you all to this public meeting of the Audit Committee. I have received apologies from Margaret Jamieson.We have two items on the agenda: the draft written agreement between the Parliament and the Executive on the form of accounts and powers of direction, and the future work programme of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 3138,
      "EditedText": "I refer members of the committee to the draft agreement and the covering letter from the Executive and remind them that, in considering the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill at stage 1, this committee agreed to the proposal that ministers should direct the form of accounts following consultation with the committee. I suggest that we consider the content of the draft item by item. That will allow us to individualise each decision that has to be made. As far as possible, where the committee wishes to make changes to the agreement, it should agree on a form of words rather than express a general view. I would like what we are deciding to be clear, not only to assist the clerks, but to make clear our thinking.I now invite members to make their contributions. Let us start with the form of accounts and powers of direction. Are there any comments on paragraph 1, entitled \"Purpose\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 3139,
      "EditedText": "Before we start, I would like—for the record, more than anything else—to express a concern that was also felt by the Finance Committee; it will, I hope, be relayed back to the Executive. My concern is that we are considering these documents after the closure of amendment deadlines for stage 2 of the bill. Much of what we may do in the form of amendments is subject to the finalising of these written understandings between the Executive and us, so we are concerned about the fact that we are getting to see them so late in the day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 3150,
      "EditedText": "I think that the Executive's intention is that budget supporting documentation and the form of accounts should mirror each other closely. It is, therefore, entirely reasonable that the same points should be made. We should also assume that the Executive, in accepting points that the Finance Committee made about budget documentation, would apply the same points to the form of accounts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 3154,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 3159,
      "EditedText": "I think that that point comes up later in the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 3162,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 3167,
      "EditedText": "I support that view. That point also occurred to me. There seems to be an inconsistency in the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 3171,
      "EditedText": "With that amendment, we would be making a statement about the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill. I do not know whether the bill will require the Scottish ministers to use the powers in consultation with committees. We can say \"and will use them in consultation\", because that is our written understanding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 3173,
      "EditedText": "What is your final form of words?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3177",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 3177,
      "EditedText": "But that is what the paragraph mentions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3179",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 3179,
      "EditedText": "I would read that to be so, but I have no more information than anyone else."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 3180,
      "EditedText": "If the committee wants to clarify that, it is entitled to do so. Paragraph 5, as I read it, says that the Parliament will be consulted on any changes that are made by a minister. Andrew Wilson is introducing the specific proposal that the same form of accounts should be used by other public bodies. Andrew, if we understand you correctly, you want assurances that the powers of direction will be activated and that the same forms of accounts will be used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 3183,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but there may also be problems with the extent to which the Executive can set down the form of accounts. It can do so for executive agencies, but may find it more difficult for those bodies that are more at arm's length."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3187",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 3187,
      "EditedText": "I want to pursue the point that Annabel and I raised. We want to include in paragraphs 3 and 4 a reference to consultation with the Audit Committee."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3188",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "We will ask the clerk to examine that. You want to clarify whether paragraph 5 is applicable."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3190",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
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      "EditedText": "Something along those lines would certainly satisfy me."
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  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3194",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 3194,
      "EditedText": "One of the discussions that we had at this morning's meeting of the Finance Committee resulted in a commitment from the Minister for Finance—in lieu of an amendment, which Brian Adam withdrew—to include certain information, such as sources of funding, in the supporting documents. Brian can comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3195",
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 3195,
      "EditedText": "A concern that I have expressed a number of times is that, to have proper clarity and transparency about where moneys come from, we have to identify clearly moneys that have been recycled, in terms of mandatory efficiency savings—which are typically 1 per cent for further education colleges and 3 per cent for health trusts. There is also the 6 per cent return on capital that is expected from health trusts and the Keeper of the Registers of Scotland, and there may be others of that ilk. That should be clarified in the budget bill and supporting documents. The minister was reluctant—that is putting it kindly—to accept my amendment to that effect this morning, but he assured me that he would consider examining it in the written agreement. I want the minister to bring forward proposals for amendments. We will have to revisit this."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3199",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 3199,
      "EditedText": "We had an understanding from the minister that he would address the identification of recycled moneys and come back to us. I do not know whether it would be useful for us to produce one form of words and end up fighting over the thes, anys and ands. I want to have it on record that we are considering the matter, almost as a reminder to the minister of what he agreed to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3200",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 3200,
      "EditedText": "You have now got that on the record—no doubt the minister will read it. When I report the views of this committee, I shall certainly ensure that that is brought to the attention of the minister.Are there any other comments on paragraph 6?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3201",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 3201,
      "EditedText": "There seems to be silence in the remaining provisions about reserves or other capital. It is important that the Parliament is presented with a budget bill that, apart from dealing with revenue issues—I think that Brian Adam is trying to get at this—gives information about whether there are accumulated revenues. If there is a percentage increase or decrease in revenue performance, we are entitled to know whether capital has accumulated or been lost as a consequence of the operating budget account for the year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3203",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 3203,
      "EditedText": "There cannot be a full understanding of the budget bill if the Parliament is not privy to whether there are reserves or carry overs."
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  {
    "ID": "C3207",
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      "ContributionID": 3207,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 3210,
      "EditedText": "Is there not reference to a capital expenditure plan? I understand the point, but are we worrying about something that, in fact—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3212",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 3212,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with a word of that, but I would have expected those things to be included in the capital expenditure plan that is mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3213",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 3213,
      "EditedText": "If the Executive decides that it wants not to spend capital, but to hoard it, all that the Parliament will ever know—if they simply have to produce a capital expenditure plan—is that there are some capital expenditure proposals. We will never know what the kitty of capital is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 3214,
      "EditedText": "The system is being set. Once systems are set, it is usually difficult to change them. It is important to get things right at the outset. We are working from a fixed budget, so clarity is important if we are to understand how the fixed budget is operating."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 3216,
      "EditedText": "You have asked for guidance, Brian. I am sure that we can expect an explanatory note from the clerks on that point about capital and revenue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 3218,
      "EditedText": "There is no specific deadline, although the minister has said that he hopes to have agreed a final version with members of both committees before stage 3 of the bill, so that, if members are still not happy, they can table amendments. That gives us about another four weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 3219,
      "EditedText": "Clearly, there are a lot of gaps, so we need further information. The part of paragraph 7 about the capital expenditure plans—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 3220,
      "EditedText": "We have not reached that yet. That comes next—we are waiting with baited breath."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 3228,
      "EditedText": "Forget roughly; we want exactly. I understand that you are looking for a listing of the capital assets, complete with the changes that have taken place, and a listing of all new projects. You also want individual statements on PPP and PFI projects, so that we have a clear picture of what is going on in terms of capital. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 3229,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 3231,
      "EditedText": "We need to know the level that it is intended to disaggregate to. At that point, perhaps we could include the clarity on savings and return on capital that I referred to earlier. I would expect us to have disaggregation of the budget well below departmental level. I have lodged an amendment, which we will come to later, that suggests that information be disaggregated to a sub-programme level. We are looking for a fairly open account. If all we have is a line that says we are spending £5 billion on education, we will know nothing. We need the information at, for example, a little below how much is going into the excellence fund for education. We need an agreed form of words about the required level; we also need clarification on the recycling of the money to which I referred earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 3237,
      "EditedText": "From what members have been saying, we have a technical problem. We need some technical expertise to inform this committee's judgment as to what the reasonable level is. We require technical expertise to ensure that we do not go into massive detail and also that we do not make it so large a unit that it is meaningless.I believe that this issue was discussed at the meeting of the Finance Committee. Were any members present at that meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 3238,
      "EditedText": "The meeting this morning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 3240,
      "EditedText": "John Swinney raised this issue at the Finance Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 3242,
      "EditedText": "Scott's point is reasonable in that I would like a disaggregation that goes as far as is humanly possible. Whether that is given on paper or in electronic format can be decided later. If one does not want to examine it in more detail, it is possible to examine it one level up. I want the greatest possible transparency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 3244,
      "EditedText": "I read paragraph 8 a little differently from other members. I took it that paragraph 8 was saying that the disaggregation would mirror whatever was agreed as the conduct in paragraph 7. We have agreed, in relation to paragraph 7, to investigate how far we can show capital commitments for individual smaller items. We have also said that we want some indication of public private partnership accounts and so on. By definition, paragraph 8 says that we disaggregate that side of it to the same level. Therefore, we do not have a problem. If we make progress on what has been discussed in paragraph 7, by definition paragraph 8 will come down to the same level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 3247,
      "EditedText": "It is clear that the committee knows what it wants. We must get technical advice as to what is feasible, so that we can make a judgment. Can I ask the poor, overworked clerk to consider this matter to see whether the experts can tell us what a reasonable level would be? What the committee is searching for is clear. We should find out what is technically feasible, so that we can make a judgment. Would that be fair?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 3248,
      "EditedText": "I agreed with Scott's suggestion that this should be done by dialogue, rather than us saying, \"This is our list of demands\", and the minister saying, \"This is all that you are going to get.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 3251,
      "EditedText": "Yes, because otherwise there is a shifting of focus.Are there any other comments on paragraph 8? We have examined the level of information that is required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 3252,
      "EditedText": "I made the point that clarity with regard to recycling of money in terms of the savings and the return on capital might be included. I am trying to remember whether the minister made a commitment to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C3255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 3255,
      "EditedText": "Is that not covered as well under paragraph 5 of the powers of direction? It will be done by the minister in consultation with the Audit Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 3259,
      "EditedText": "I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, but mentioning that if it is in writing, no one can dispute it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 3262,
      "EditedText": "We are all happy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 3263,
      "EditedText": "We are asking the clerk to produce a paper on the level at which number 8—the level of budget documentation—should be looked at, and to ask that this committee has the ability to request a review. That has completed section 8. Are there any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 3264,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to section 7. If you are harmonising the entire discussion, the same technical questions would apply to section 7 as to section 8."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Written Agreements (Scottish Executive)",
      "HeadingID": 50,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 50,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 3265,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that clarification. We expect the clerk to give us further papers to scrutinise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ID": 51,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 3266,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 concerns future Audit Committee meetings. The paper sets out the dates of future meetings that have been agreed previously. The committee is being asked to agree dates for those meetings for which a date has not been fixed.The paper asks for the committee's agreement on the way in which the National Audit Office report—covering Scottish matters that were previously considered by the Westminster Public Accounts Committee—which is to be published in December, should be dealt with. Once we have made some decisions this morning, we will receive an updated timetable and programme.On Tuesday 9 November, the committee will meet at 2 pm to begin stage 2 consideration of the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill. I remind members that the deadline for lodging amendments is 5.30 pm on Friday 5 November. Is that meeting agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C3269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 51,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 3269,
      "EditedText": "Could we decide on a date now, just in case that happens?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 51,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 3278,
      "EditedText": "Will we have our ordinary meeting in the afternoon?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ID": 51,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 3279,
      "EditedText": "Yes, at 2 o'clock."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 51,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 3280,
      "EditedText": "That is assuming that we have not finished with the bill next week. I suggest that if it is possible—if we have almost finished with the bill, for example—we could shorten our ordinary meeting and continue the briefing afterwards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 51,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 3282,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ID": 51,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 3283,
      "EditedText": "The committee will meet at 2 o'clock on Tuesday 23 November to consider the NAO report, \"Emergency Planning for the Year 2000\".Members will be pleased to hear that no meetings are scheduled for the week beginning 29 November.In the week beginning 7 December, we will deal with the Scottish reports that were previously considered by the PAC. The programme of committee meetings that was previously circulated included two meetings for the weeks beginning 6 December and 15 December when we could consider the NAO summary report on the results of previous reports on Scottish matters considered by the PAC. It is likely that that report will not be published until the beginning of December.I imagine that the committee will want to consider carefully the report and the action that we would propose to take. Members might not want to follow up some subjects at this stage. They might want to ask for written evidence on some subjects or call accounting officers to give oral evidence on progress made since the original report. I suggest that we delay consideration of the report until the new year and use a meeting in December to consider, along with the NAO, questions of handling and priority. Are we agreed that we will do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 3285,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for attending, I think that we have made considerable progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 02 Nov 1999",
      "ID": 17
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-11-02T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 51,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 51,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 3286,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 13:49."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.030015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Friday 29 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 624670,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the 10th meeting of the Standards Committee. The only item on the agenda this afternoon is the inquiry into matters that were brought to the committee's attention by The Observer newspaper. There are two parts to this item, the first of which is the consideration of a report on the written evidence that was requested on 27 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Report on Written Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18737,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 624671,
      "EditedText": "I assume that everyone has had the opportunity to read and digest the extra information that was provided by Mr Jack McConnell and Christina Marshall. Are there any comments on the evidence that has been presented?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Report on Written Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18737,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 624676,
      "EditedText": "I concur with my colleagues that, quite clearly, we do not have evidence of any impropriety on the part of Mr McConnell. I have a lingering concern about the conflicting testimony. I do not think that it is just a matter of a difference in recollections. I think that there was a clear difference in the facts expressed by those two individuals. In the longer term, the committee will no doubt have to investigate a few other difficult matters. A message must be sent out, loud and clear, that if individuals do not take the oath seriously, implications follow from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 624684,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18738,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 624688,
      "EditedText": "There is a presumption that the report will be so well prepared that we will not have to change much of the spelling and so on, in which case it will be published very quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18738,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 624690,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on, I would like to say that, before we were catapulted into the inquiry, we were considering the code of conduct for MSPs; we had just reached the issue of lobby companies. That part of our normal work has been suspended, but will you confirm that, as soon as practicable, we will return to the code of conduct and that we will begin with an investigation into lobby companies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Report on Written Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18737,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 624672,
      "EditedText": "From the material that has been presented to me by the special adviser and others, and from the evidence that I have heard over the past 24 days, I conclude that there is no evidence that Jack McConnell acted improperly.That 24-day period has been extremely difficult for the Standards Committee, because it has heard conflicting evidence on oath from, I suspect, at least one of the people who gave us evidence. There is a contradiction at the heart of the evidence, and it centres on the diary entry and the conversation between Christina Marshall and Alex Barr. Christina Marshall said that there is a difference in recollection: it is my view that there is a difference in fact. It is not the role of the committee to decide who, between Christina Marshall and Alex Barr, was not telling the truth. The committee's role is to investigate the behaviour of MSPs, and we are doing that by investigating the behaviour of Jack McConnell. We have to make a judgment on the evidence that is before us—not the evidence that people say should have been presented to us and was not, but on the evidence that has come to us. I repeat: from the evidence that we have received, I conclude that there is no evidence that Jack McConnell acted improperly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Report on Written Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18737,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 624673,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Tricia. On the basis of the oral and written evidence that has been presented to us and the material in the report from the special adviser, there has been no impropriety. Indeed, it is appropriate for a minister to have a single, central authoritative diary for the placement of any engagements.The one concern that I had during the questioning this week was about why the diary entry had been deleted so rapidly. Mr McConnell answered that very satisfactorily—from the rest of the diary, it was clear that it was because he was taking no engagements at that particular time of year.I also have some slight concerns about the evidence of Alex Barr and Christina Marshall. Alex Barr reported that Christina Marshall had told him that he should consider the diary appointment confirmed unless he heard back from her. That was completely denied by Miss Marshall, so their recollections are clearly at odds. However, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that, on the evidence that we have received, there has been no impropriety by Jack McConnell as an MSP."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Report on Written Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18737,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 624678,
      "EditedText": "That ends the first part of agenda item 1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18738,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 624679,
      "EditedText": "We will now move on to the second part, which is consideration of further procedure.Do members agree that we should make public Malcolm Duncan's report on the material supplied by Jack McConnell?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18738,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 624681,
      "EditedText": "As to further procedure after we make the report ready this afternoon, we should meet next week. Do members agree that we should instruct the clerks to produce a draft report for our consideration next week and publish it as soon as possible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18738,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 624682,
      "EditedText": "It is my understanding that there will be a draft report, which the committee will consider, and that the final report will go to the Parliament, which will take a view on it, as we are a committee of the Parliament and we report back to the Parliament. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18738,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 624683,
      "EditedText": "That is correct.Are there any other comments before I sum up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18738,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 624686,
      "EditedText": "It has certainly been the practice of other committees, such as the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, to meet in private session to prepare a report for Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18738,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 624687,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We have concluded all the evidence in public, we are publishing all the evidence and I think that it is right and proper that we go into private session to consider the draft—it is only a draft—report. Once we have considered the draft report, we should publish the final version as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 624689,
      "EditedText": "Yes, the officials have done a good job in producing all the materials. It is our job to consider the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624692",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 624692,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:03."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Friday 29 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18736,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18736,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 624669,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:48"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Report on Written Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18737,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 624674,
      "EditedText": "I broadly concur with Tricia Marwick. There are a number of unsatisfactory loose ends in the evidence, which the committee does not have the resources to deal with in the way that a court of law might. We have evidence about the operation of the constituency office and the ministerial office. On the basis of the evidence that we have heard, the conclusion has to be that there was no impropriety on the part of the MSP, which is our essential concern. We are not equipped to resolve the issue of two people's different accounts of a telephone conversation. We have to go with the evidence before us and ask whether it points clearly to impropriety. I do not think that we could come to that conclusion, so I am very much of the same view as Tricia Marwick."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Report on Written Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18737,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 624675,
      "EditedText": "I supported this investigation and I note the new evidence.Our remit was to consider whether there was evidence of a breach of any code by an MSP. I believe, from the information before us, that there is no evidence of a breach of any code by any MSP, including Jack McConnell. I conclude that there is no evidence of impropriety. There is a discrepancy of evidence. For a confirmed invitation, there is normally a need for a letter of invitation and an acceptance. There is neither a letter nor an acceptance. There is a discrepancy of evidence over the telephone call. That was put to Christina Marshall by the convener. Mr Barr said that \"in the conversation I had with Christina she told me that I should consider it confirmed unless I heard back from her, which I did not.\"—Official Report, Standards Committee, 8 October 1999; c 125.She said:\"My version is different from Mr Barr's: I can confirm that. I have given you my recollection of the conversation with Mr Barr. I never on any occasion gave him any indication that Mr McConnell would attend the event.\"—Official Report, Standards Committee, 27 October 1999; c 193.There is no evidence, of any description, that the date was confirmed by Jack McConnell. I believe that there is no evidence of impropriety against him. I express thanks to Malcolm Duncan for the excellence of his report to us, which made our task a lot easier and was a great help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Report on Written Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18737,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18737,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 624677,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the views expressed by my colleagues, in particular by Tricia. On the basis of the evidence that I have before me, there is no evidence of Jack McConnell having acted improperly in relation to the codes under which we have been conducting the investigation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18738,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 624680,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18738,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 624685,
      "EditedText": "We are agreed that Mr Duncan's report on Mr McConnell's evidence will be made available publicly later, in the same way as we have done with the reports on the written materials submitted by others.I will now summarise the committee's position on the investigation.A substantial amount of written and oral evidence has been placed before the committee, including the report by our adviser, Mr Malcolm Duncan, who has carefully studied the written material supplied by Mr McConnell. That includes a printout of the diary held electronically by Mr McConnell's private office; annotated hard copies taken from the electronic system from which Mr McConnell worked; Christina Marshall's current notebook; constituency desk diaries for 1999 and 2000; and a substantial folder of notes, papers, copy invitations and correspondence prepared by officials. Mr Duncan studied all those documents in the light of a lengthy list of Beattie Media clients. As we all know, last Monday, we received Mr Duncan's report, and all members found that there was no case to answer against Jackie Baillie, Henry McLeish and Kenny MacAskill. In relation to Mr McConnell, the committee decided that the investigation should continue and that more evidence should be considered. Having heard the evidence given under oath by Christina Marshall and Jack McConnell on Wednesday, and after considering the extra written material, we conclude that there is no evidence of any breach, by Mr McConnell, of any code that covers the conduct of MSPs. The committee is tasked with establishing and maintaining the high standards of conduct expected of members of the Scottish Parliament. I want to record our thanks to the officials for all their hard work, and special thanks to our adviser, Mr Malcolm Duncan.Before I close the meeting, the committee must agree whether our meeting to consider the draft report should be held in private. I would like to ensure that all members agree on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3476
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 18738,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18738,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 624691,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I think that the committee agreed that this investigation was so important that we should devote all our attention to it. I thank all the members of the committee, as well as the officials, for clearing their diaries over the past 24 days to allow the investigation to move swiftly.  It is my intention that we meet soon—towards the end of next week—in order to consider the report in careful detail. We will publish the report and then return immediately to our normal work routine. We should start where we left off, which was an examination of lobbying companies. Perhaps this investigation will have informed our views on how to proceed with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 19315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 638470,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 19315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 638474,
      "EditedText": "How would we know, once the fish was out, whether it was v-notched or not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 19315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 638475,
      "EditedText": "It would be a bit late for the fish as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 19315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 638476,
      "EditedText": "The other question that came up in our legal briefing was on the reference to European Community law. It is important for us to raise this issue with the Executive. Where it acts in an area in which the statutory instrument relates to European Community law, there should be a reference to that EC law. Where it is helpful to the understanding of a statutory instrument, an extract or copy of the item concerned would be useful for legal advisers, and also for committee members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 19315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 638477,
      "EditedText": "On those two points, the European angle and the requirement of a clear definition, people should, if there is to be possible prosecution, at least be expected to know what they should or should not have done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999<br /> (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 638481,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned about the timing of the order. I was with Strathclyde Passenger Transport, and we knew for a long time that this was going to happen. It seemed to me that the order came very late. The whole matter was planned over a number of years, because traffic had to be taken off Great Western Road. I read somewhere—I cannot find it now; I should have highlighted it—that you made a comment, convener, that the order was late in coming. In fact, it is over. We are discussing it today, but the Kingston bridge was closed last weekend: that has the knock-on effect for this order. I wondered why the legal process took so long when we have known what was going to happen for so long. I take Ian's point. The word \"within\" in article 2(b) is deceptive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education (Student Loans) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/124)",
      "HeadingID": 19319,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 19319,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 638489,
      "EditedText": "It is agreed that we will raise that with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 19320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 638491,
      "EditedText": "We used to get maps apparently. One does not want to lose 6,000 square miles of the North sea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 19320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 638492,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we need maps."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 19320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 638494,
      "EditedText": "I had not focused on that but, given that this is going to people in a trade who operate from charts, it appears that the geographical description is important. Given that this is coming through Her Majesty's Stationery Office, the acquisition of Ordnance Survey maps is not of particular difficulty. In a purchase of a house, we would tack on a clear, defined description."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 19320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 638497,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should raise with the Executive that we note that maps are not provided, which has been done historically. We should ask what the reasoning is behind that and whether it is satisfied that concerned individuals will have fair and accurate knowledge as to the geographical area referred to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presiding Officer (Letters)",
      "HeadingID": 19321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 638499,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999<br /> (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 638482,
      "EditedText": "If the rationale of this statutory instrument is that people in Glasgow should be entitled to traverse the Clyde by a toll-free bridge, they are setting an interesting precedent for people in Skye, so I am delighted with this statutory instrument. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education (Student Loans) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/124)",
      "HeadingID": 19319,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 19319,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 638488,
      "EditedText": "This again appears to be a transgression of the 21-day rule. That is becoming something of a habit. The regulations came into force on the day that they were laid before Parliament. The reason given for the failure to comply with the 21-day rule was a desire to ensure that Scottish domiciled students were able to benefit from the changes introduced by the regulations as early as possible in the current academic year. That is all well and good and laudable. It is also stated that the amending regulations have already been put in place in England and Wales. That begs the question of why the Executive was not on the ball and why this was done late. We should be told, as a certain journalist used to say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 19313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638462,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 18:16"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 19313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 638463,
      "EditedText": "Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I see that no members of the public are rushing to stay behind at this late hour.We have had the benefit of our legal briefing, as we have termed it. Without further ado, we will move to the items on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 19314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638465,
      "EditedText": "The Executive should be asked why no letter was submitted to the Presiding Officer, as is required, until it was asked for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 19314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638466,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone else wish to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 19315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 638471,
      "EditedText": "This article certainly makes one learn more about shellfish, and about the definitions of various parts thereof. There is a benefit other than the legal one of being in this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999<br /> (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 638480,
      "EditedText": "On the timing of the suspension of the tolls, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999<br /> (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 638483,
      "EditedText": "Without usurping the Executive, it seems to me that if it is considering introducing legislation on road pricing or congestion charging, getting the definitions right at the outset on something which is only transient and temporary would be sound advice to its legislative drafters before they progress to anything else. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 19320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 638490,
      "EditedText": "Again, there seems to be a potential drafting problem with various parts of this order. Is it the intention of article 3 to disapply all the prohibitions in article 6 and, if so, what is the purpose of article 3(b)? Is it agreed that we should seek clarification of this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presiding Officer (Letters)",
      "HeadingID": 19321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 638498,
      "EditedText": "We discussed this matter in the pre-meeting briefing, during which we had flagged up difficulties. In the spirit of constructively criticising the Executive, we can leave it to Alasdair Rankin, as clerk of this committee, to see whether sufficient recognition can be given to us. We should also make clear that we wish to receive matters to be brought to our attention electronically, if that is the quickest way to do it. As we said earlier, letters to the Presiding Officer are significant and can be vital.We will see whether informal channels can be used to deal with those matters rather than having to deal with them formally by instructing, advising and requesting people to come before the committee. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presiding Officer (Letters)",
      "HeadingID": 19321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 638501,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it certainly does. Should we seek clarification by asking Alasdair to discuss matters with the Executive? If we are not clear on that, that may be an issue that we have to raise. The Procedures Committee may have to examine that as well, as it is not satisfactory.Thank you for attending at this time of day. Sorry for the inconvenience of having to rejig our schedule."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presiding Officer (Letters)",
      "HeadingID": 19321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 638502,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 18:31."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 19314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 638467,
      "EditedText": "I second David Mundell's comments. The failure of the Executive to submit letters to the Presiding Officer is becoming a habit. It should be stopped. If it does not stop, one wonders why we are here. I am not suggesting that we follow a policy of three strikes and you are out, much as I would like to, but we should indicate how seriously we regard this repeated breaching of the rules."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 19320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 638493,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to second that. It is an excellent point raised by the Liberal party. I am glad that it has come on board on the 6,000 square miles issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 19314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638464,
      "EditedText": "We have had some advice on this matter. Are there any points that we wish to take up with the Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 19314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 638468,
      "EditedText": "Item 4 on the agenda concerns letters to the Presiding Officer in a more general context, but it seems that we are already in agreement that we should raise this problem with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 19315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 638469,
      "EditedText": "In our briefing, various points were raised regarding definitions. Ian, do you wish to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 19315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 638472,
      "EditedText": "Colourful images."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)",
      "HeadingID": 19315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 19315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 638473,
      "EditedText": "Colourful images, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Organic Aid (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/107)",
      "HeadingID": 19316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 19316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 638478,
      "EditedText": "This is a brief matter. As Bristow said when discussing the last SSI, the Commission decision is referred to and we should be asking, as a matter of courtesy and to assist ourselves and our advisers, for a copy to be sent along. The legislative drafters will have the copy of the regulations before them when they are making the draft. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999<br /> (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 638479,
      "EditedText": "This order is a possible beanfeast for some. Are there any comments?We have a legal briefing seeking clarification on the beginning of the order. Is it agreed that we should ask for some confirmation of the definition, with more precise, tighter drafting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999<br /> (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 638484,
      "EditedText": "It might be worth making the general point about how important explanatory notes are. Many members may rely on explanatory notes to a large extent. It is important, therefore, that they are as clear and concise as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Erskine Bridge (Temporary Suspension of Tolls) Order 1999<br /> (SSI 1999/116)",
      "HeadingID": 19317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 638485,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, David. I missed that, although it was in our legal briefing, so we will raise that matter as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/121)",
      "HeadingID": 19318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ID": 19318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 638486,
      "EditedText": "Our legal briefing advises that this SSI is tickety-boo. We will leave the policy arguments for elsewhere on another day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education (Student Loans) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/124)",
      "HeadingID": 19319,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 19319,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 638487,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments on SSI 1999/124?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 19320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 638495,
      "EditedText": "We may not need the map, but it should be available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/114)",
      "HeadingID": 19320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 19320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 638496,
      "EditedText": "There is a precise definition in the schedule of the areas that are covered. I presume that fishermen would be able to use that information. The convener may want to get clarification on this issue, but if the information that is already supplied is sufficient for the people in the industry, that is what is crucial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3616
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presiding Officer (Letters)",
      "HeadingID": 19321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 19321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 638500,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise a question on the letter from the Executive. In paragraph 3, it is stated that in relation to the provision of letters under article 10 of SI 1999/1096, there is not a timetable defined within that article. If that is the case, we may wish to seek to amend that. If it is the case that you must send a letter, but it does not matter whether you send it this year or next year, that seems to be a bit of an open goal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18734,
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:32"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624417",
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      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 624417,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Christina Marshall (Constituency Secretary to Mr Jack McConnell): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 624419,
      "EditedText": "Yes.Ms Marshall took the oath."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 624421,
      "EditedText": "This is Mr Niall Scott from McGrigor Donald."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 624422,
      "EditedText": "Would you now make your opening statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 624430,
      "EditedText": "When was I first contacted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 624425,
      "EditedText": "Thanks for your statement, Christina. It certainly clears up a number of questions that the committee had about general office procedure, so I will not have to ask you them.One of the accusations that has been made by the newspaper—it was substantiated, if you like, by Mr Barr—was that Beattie Media had undue contact with Mr McConnell because you worked for him. Could you detail for us what verbal, written or e-mail contact you have had with Beattie Media, apart from the conversation that you have told us about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624435",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 624435,
      "EditedText": "And you were in the car when you spoke to him?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 624438,
      "EditedText": "And I did not have any correspondence relating to Mr McConnell with me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 624443,
      "EditedText": "So at no point did you give, in your opinion, any commitment to Mr Barr using words to the effect of:\"If you have not heard back from me in a couple of days, then you can consider it confirmed.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 624447,
      "EditedText": "That was not my understanding of the conversation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 624449,
      "EditedText": "The date that I had in my mind for the event was 25 January. I was not aware of the 25 February until Dean Nelson asked me about it on the telephone. That is why the note is in January; nothing was ever put down for February."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 624453,
      "EditedText": "The day after the conversation, the Friday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624458",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 624458,
      "EditedText": "I will come back to that, but there are a couple of other things that I would like to ask.You talked about the conversation with Dean Nelson on 24 September. He has told us that you said that you \"had pencilled it into the minister's diary for him to consider\"—Official Report, Standards Committee, 8 October 1999; c 106.but that the minister was not aware of it yet.As far as we are concerned, that is a strange thing to say, because you have now told us that you told the minister in August, although you told Dean Nelson in September that the minister was not aware of it. You have said a wee bit in your statement, but I think that this is an important point. There is some discrepancy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624459",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 624459,
      "EditedText": "When Mr Nelson telephoned, he asked if I could confirm whether Mr McConnell would be the speaker at the event. I said that it had been put forward for his consideration and that was all. Mr Nelson then said that he had spoken to Mr Barr, who had confirmed that Mr McConnell would be the speaker. I said that Mr McConnell was not aware of that, meaning that he had not confirmed that he would be the speaker. That was the first we had heard about confirmation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 624460,
      "EditedText": "When you said that the minister was not aware of it, did you mean that he was not aware that he had been confirmed as the speaker at the dinner?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624462",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 624462,
      "EditedText": "Again, that is slightly different from what Dean Nelson, under oath, said to the committee. That is something that we should consider, convener.You are obviously quite meticulous in taking notes, and we have seen your notebook for this year. Why, having had an important—having been a constituency secretary myself, I would regard it as important—conversation with a fairly major journalist, who was making quite serious allegations about a minister, did you make no note of it in your notebook?"
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    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624464",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "So there is nothing in the notebook?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624465",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "EditedText": "No, there would not be, because it was to me that Dean Nelson spoke. Anything that I record in the hard copy of Mr McConnell's diary relates to Mr McConnell."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624466",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "No, I am not talking about the diary, I am referring to the notebook, which our special adviser has, which relates to 13 October onwards."
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  {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
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      "EditedText": "Will you make that typescript available to the committee?"
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  {
    "ID": "C624475",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "EditedText": "Certainly."
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  {
    "ID": "C624481",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "EditedText": "That was on the Friday."
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  {
    "ID": "C624485",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 624485,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I clean up my diary on a Friday as I have a new copy of Mr McConnell's diary faxed through from the private office. I go through my diary and make any alterations that are necessary. I was doing that—the note was no longer relevant, so I Tipp-Exed it out."
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624488",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Thank you."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624489",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 624489,
      "EditedText": "Is it also standard procedure to type up records of telephone conversations?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624493",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 624493,
      "EditedText": "So you talked to him about the telephone conversation with Dean Nelson as soon as he came into the office?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624496",
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      "EditedText": "Yes. I was to send it to the ministerial office."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624497",
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      "EditedText": "There is something that puzzles me. Why did you not phone Alex Barr to tell him that? By all accounts, you said that you would look into it. By all accounts, this was the first major event that someone who was your former employer—and Mr McConnell's former employer—had asked Mr McConnell to participate in. We are a bit puzzled about why you did not get back to that person to say, \"Sorry, you need to send an official invitation\"."
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  {
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      "EditedText": "In writing."
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 624503,
      "EditedText": "Until Mr McConnell received that, you were not prepared to consider it. However, you did not phone Mr Barr to say, \"Look, you need to send this in because Jack's diary is quite busy and it will fill up quite quickly\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624508",
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      "ID": 169
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "EditedText": "He told me not to."
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      "EditedText": "Have you finished, Karen? Do you have any other questions?"
    },
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    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624511",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
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      "EditedText": "Just to clarify that you never, ever made any note in your notebook about this invitation."
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  {
    "ID": "C624512",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
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      "EditedText": "The only note that was ever taken in any book was the note in the back of the forward planner—the provisional note to speak to Mr McConnell about the invitation."
    },
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    "ID": "C624516",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
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      "EditedText": "Yes, it was. I would not destroy a notebook unless it was completed. Any information in it that was still active would be transferred to the new notebook so that I had a record of it, as it was still on-going."
    },
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    "ID": "C624520",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes, that was routine procedure."
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  {
    "ID": "C624522",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 624522,
      "EditedText": "A rough note would be taken in the notebook, and it would then be shown to Mr McConnell, who would advise me on what he wanted the official documentation to say. That would be typed up and sent to the appropriate external body, be it the police or the council. The rough note would be destroyed, but anything—any documentation—containing factual evidence would be put in a file, which would be kept under lock and key."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624524",
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      "EditedText": "The official letter sent out, containing the information, would be, but rough notes would be destroyed."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624527",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
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      "EditedText": "So, this confidential material, in rough note form, would be retained in the notebook until such time as the notebook was destroyed?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624531",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 624531,
      "EditedText": "After that, you would speak to Mr McConnell about it, go away and type up the documentation?"
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 624533,
      "EditedText": "If the material was so highly confidential, would it not make more sense to destroy that specific information at that time, rather than leave it lying around in a notebook, along with other, more mundane stuff?"
    },
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  },
  {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
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      "EditedText": "Are there any more questions? I have one question, Christina. I come back to one matter—you have answered this point, but I want absolute clarification, because it is such an important one. Alex Barr, on several occasions—not just once—in his evidence to us on 8 October, made it quite clear that in the conversation that he had with you, he understood that he should  \"consider it confirmed\". I quote one of the times when he made the point, that\"in the conversation I had with Christina she told me that I should consider it confirmed unless I heard back from her, which I did not.\"He then goes on to compliment you. He says:\"I know her to be reliable and meticulous, and I am sure that she would have called me back had there been any dubiety.\"—Official Report, Standards Committee, 8 October 1999;  c 125.I want to clarify this again, because we have such clear evidence from Alex Barr, in whose opinion that was the case. Could you comment on his statement—his being so clear in his understanding of that conversation? Your understanding of it is completely different from his. Can I confirm that with you?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C624539",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "C624543",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 624543,
      "EditedText": "I have never before been approached in person by anyone to ask whether Mr McConnell would be interested in attending an event without an invitation. This was the first occasion on which anything like that had ever arisen."
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  {
    "ID": "C624545",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 624545,
      "EditedText": "People come into the office. If it is a local organisation, they will ask whether Mr McConnell, when he is in the office on Friday, could come along, for example, to the Scottish Women's Aid project, and pay them a visit. What I ask them to do is drop a note to the office, or I write them a letter back. I would speak to Mr McConnell about it. I have never been asked before whether in principle he would consider attending an event."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624548",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
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      "EditedText": "I have one question on the notebooks that were shredded or destroyed. You said earlier, Ms Marshall, that you had been dealing with shorthand notebooks—the floppy ones. The one that you are now operating with is a hardback notebook. Is that correct?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 624549,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C624554",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  {
    "ID": "C624555",
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      "ContributionID": 624555,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 624559,
      "EditedText": "Before we start the questions, I would like to thank you for that opening statement and your willingness to come before the committee to air all those issues."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 624561,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful if I talked about what I did 11 months ago, rather than six. From the moment that I was selected as a candidate for the Labour party, I began to put distance between myself and both Beattie Media and Maclay Murray & Spens, which had also been my employer.I resigned from my position with Beattie Media and Maclay Murray & Spens the day after I was selected as a Labour party candidate—23 November 1998—and, since the election, I have been careful not to have direct contact with any public relations or public affairs firms, including Beattie Media. I have a strict procedure in both my offices to ensure that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 624570,
      "EditedText": "As part of your employment contract, you had to secure permission to seek selection. Do you think, with hindsight, that that was wise?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
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      "EditedText": "I think that it is important to differentiate between the two. The Observer's original claim on 26 September was that—presumably by implication—not just Kevin Reid and Alex Barr but other members of staff at Beattie Media were in regular contact with me. They have subsequently made it clear that that was not the case. Before The Observer even printed the story, I made it clear that that was not the case, and I have confirmed that again today. I personally have not had that regular contact with the company. I think that my constituency secretary Ms Marshall has made very clear the very professional way in which she handled the four approaches from Beattie Media staff in her position in my office. That was right and proper, and I am delighted to hear her confirming that this morning."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624574",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 624574,
      "EditedText": "But four official approaches in two months suggests to me that there is regular contact."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624576",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 624576,
      "EditedText": "Have you e-mailed anybody at Beattie Media since the election?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624577",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 624577,
      "EditedText": "Not since the election, but I did after I left the company. I had friendships with one or two individuals who worked there—junior members of staff rather than partners or account managers. We kept in contact—or, I suppose, they kept in contact with me, rather than my keeping in contact with them. But I would get e-mails from them occasionally to wish me well, or to keep me up to date with news or gossip about what was happening to others we knew. But I have never had any electronic communication from Beattie Media of an official nature at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 624591,
      "EditedText": "That is all right."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 624592,
      "EditedText": "On the subject of telephone numbers, our adviser looked at Alex Barr's contact book. It contained three telephone numbers for you, one of which was for your constituency office. Ms Marshall took up her position as your constituency secretary on 19 July. Presumably the constituency office was set up after May—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 624593,
      "EditedText": "This is a very important point. I cannot be absolutely certain of the clarity of the previous relationship—that is the wrong word, I should say knowledge of each other. I share a constituency office with Frank Roy, the MP for Motherwell and Wishaw. I think Frank Roy and Alex Barr went to school together; they certainly grew up in the same area, so they know each other. They are not in regular contact either, I can assure you, but as Frank Roy is an MP for a Lanarkshire constituency, Alex Barr and presumably other local agencies—PR and otherwise—would have had his constituency office telephone number. My current constituency telephone number is the same one as Frank Roy MP has had for the past two and a half years. It would not have been outwith Mr Barr's wit to take a note from the Frank Roy part of his contacts book and transpose that telephone number to the section of the book that referred to me. I presume that that is where he got the number from, because I do not think that the telephone number of my constituency office is particularly well advertised, apart from in the local constituency. Mr Barr does not live or work there."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 624594,
      "EditedText": "Are you aware of whether any of the numbers that Mr Barr in particular, or Mr Reid, had were private numbers that were not available in the public domain? Is your home number in the telephone book?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624595",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 624595,
      "EditedText": "I have not seen Mr Barr's contacts book, so I cannot judge that entirely. However, from what I have read of the independent adviser's report to this committee, if I remember rightly Mr Barr had three numbers for me in that book. One of those is my published home telephone number; that means that he does not have my other home telephone number, which is an ex-directory number for family. He has the constituency office number; I have just explained to Tricia Marwick where I suspect he got that number, although it is known locally as the office is public. He also has a mobile telephone number, which has not changed since I worked for Public Affairs Europe last year. I would have expected him to have that number.I draw the committee's attention to the fact that Mr Barr did not have the pager number that I had as a candidate and subsequently as an MSP in the early part of 1999. That reinforces the point that he and I have not been in contact and that he has not had access to numbers for me. I also draw the committee's attention to the fact that he did not have in his contacts book my ministerial office number or my Edinburgh parliamentary office number, both of which are publicly available. He would have been able to get those numbers even if he was not in contact with me, which I think shows that not only was he not in contact with me, but he was not making any efforts to get in contact with me."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 624597,
      "EditedText": "It would have been substantial if we had been more successful in acquiring clients. Initially, the work was to set up the new company called Public Affairs Europe. The company was based in the offices of Maclay Murray & Spens, not in the Beattie Media offices, although I occasionally worked from there on the basis of maybe one day per week. The office was registered at the headquarters of Maclay Murray & Spens in Edinburgh and my pay and contract were with Maclay, Murray & Spens, not with Beattie Media. That was administered by that company, which took the position very seriously indeed. The job that I was asked to carry out was, first, to set up systems as the chief executive of a new company, to establish the company and to produce a promotional brochure. That brochure, which I would happily provide for the committee, does not refer to access to politicians on any page, in any paragraph, unlike many other promotional brochures for public affairs and public relations companies. I was then asked to begin the process of attracting clients for the company. Some of this was referred to in the evidence from other people. There were several reasons why that was not successful. I suspect that it was partly because of my insistence that we were trying to establish a higher standard of conduct in public affairs activities, which did not involve access to politicians, but which concerned strategic advice. It was too early—too far in advance of the Scottish Parliament. The matter was regrettable, given all the people who were involved in it. Given the importance that we all put on communication, I think that we got the marketing wrong. To call the company Europe, when it was concentrating on Scotland, defeated the purpose. Therefore, there were several reasons why the company was not successful. However, I was busy trying to attract clients, and we did a lot of work on that front."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 624600,
      "EditedText": "In his evidence to this committee on 8 October, Alex Barr was cross-examined by the convener, who asked:\"When you say, ‘We speak to Jack regularly', do you include yourself?\"Alex Barr said:\"I meant a corporate we—Beattie Media.\" Official Report, Standards Committee, 8 October 1999; c 122.Do you think that he was going too far in what he said on that occasion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 624601,
      "EditedText": "I have explained this very clearly, and not only to the committee this morning; I have explained very clearly, from the first occasion on which I heard about the whole story, that the only contact that I have had with Beattie Media since May, has been—in addition to an application from a member of staff of Beattie Media for the post of my constituency assistant—the personal telephone conversations that I have had with Mr Gordon Beattie and one written approach for me to visit Motherwell College, which I accepted and handled myself as it concerned sensitive constituency business and had nothing to do with any outside body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 624604,
      "EditedText": "After that date she was not employed, in any respect, by Beattie Media?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 624606,
      "EditedText": "Yes. You have made your position on that quite clear. However, I want to be absolutely clear. On page 3 of the transcript, Alex Barr said:\"She previously worked with us, we took on Jack, she was appointed to his PA within public affairs, and we saw the merit of her going to join Jack to work in his office.\"Was that remark wholly untrue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 624610,
      "EditedText": "With regard to the awards ceremony for finance director of the year, Alex Barr claimed on page 11 of the transcript:\"Christina checked his diary for me, and said ‘Consider it done.' . . . She arranged it. She said if you don't hear from me tomorrow, it's in the diary, he'll do it.\"Had you empowered Christina to accept invitations on your behalf?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 624611,
      "EditedText": "No, not even constituency appointments, never mind ministerial appointments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 624617,
      "EditedText": "On a Friday afternoon, in keeping with normal practice. I should explain that on Fridays the ministerial office—which, as I have said, holds the only authoritative copy of my diary—faxes a copy of that diary to Christina for her to transcribe into her diary on either Friday morning or Friday afternoon. If I am in the office at the time, we go through any requests from constituency bodies or individuals in the constituency to see whether we can fit them in during the coming weeks. That is standard practice for us on a Friday. It is a way for me to organise my business and it allows both Christina and I to have a standard procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 624618,
      "EditedText": "In your letter to the committee of 14 October, you wrote:\"I told her that I would consider whether to attend the event if and when I received a formal invitation.\"As you were awaiting a formal invitation, the matter was pending, was it not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 624625,
      "EditedText": "I wish to ask two questions about receiving that informal notification of an invitation. You say that you decided at that point not to accept the invitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 624626,
      "EditedText": "I was inclined not to. The event in question was described to me as an event that might take place in the early part of 2000. Some members of the committee will be aware that I have to see the budget bill through the Parliament in January and February of next year for the first time. As I understand it, it is standard practice for ministers at the Treasury in London not to accept invitations around the time that the chancellor presents his budget, which is a much more serious occasion than my budget bill. I thought that it would be unwise to accept invitations for that period. For example, at this time I have not accepted any invitations to Burns suppers or any events of that kind in January or February next year because I want to be clear about the timetable for the bill before I put anything else in my diary. I think that that is only right and proper. I take my position as Minister for Finance very seriously and it always has to have priority at those times of the year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 624629,
      "EditedText": "Your colleagues in the Executive have already conducted some form of investigation into this. What did you tell them about this scenario?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 624631,
      "EditedText": "Christina Marshall stated this morning that the old notebooks were routinely destroyed. Is that the normal working practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 624636,
      "EditedText": "For five weeks, I have been resisting the temptation to comment on other people involved in this whole episode and I will do so again this morning. However, I would be surprised if any Scottish journalist was not aware that we were in the first year of a three-year comprehensive spending review, as figures had already been published for all three of those years. In the same week, if I remember rightly, as the conversation between the supposed company and the representatives of Beattie Media was recorded on video, we published in Parliament the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill, which sets out the procedures for the annual budget of the Parliament and the Executive. The bill makes it absolutely crystal clear that the main focus of the autumn financial statement and the budget bill in January each year is a one-year budget for the following year. It is not outwith the bounds of possibility that anyone involved in public life in Scotland had not noticed that there were two years of the comprehensive spending review still to run, but it is clear that the main purpose of the financial statement and of my activities in September as Minister for Finance were to resolve the budget for one year—next year. That became clear in the financial statement on 6 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 624638,
      "EditedText": "That is the normal process. I have to say that, as I understand it, there is a considerable amount of correspondence each day that arrives in Edinburgh but is for my constituency. A lesser amount arrives in the constituency that is actually for me as a minister, but both my offices are instructed to send the inappropriate correspondence to the other office the same day, and they carry out that instruction to the letter. That happens consistently and I am confident that the staff in my private office and the staff in my constituency office abide by those instructions to ensure that proper procedures are followed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 624639,
      "EditedText": "If an invitation to the finance director of the year award were to come your way from the right source, would not you be free to accept it and would not it be normal and natural for you, as Minister for Finance, to attend such a function?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 624643,
      "EditedText": "I have one final point. When Ms Marshall's notebooks are destroyed, I take it that they are destroyed thoroughly and without any trace being left, so that none of that confidential information could fall into the wrong hands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 624644,
      "EditedText": "That is my understanding."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 624646,
      "EditedText": "There is a ministerial code of conduct and it says that ministers will want to order their affairs so that no conflict arises, or might be thought to arise, between their private interests, financial or otherwise, and their public duties. Will Mr McConnell comment on that? Does he have any concerns relating to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 624647,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to expand too much on what I said in my earlier statement, but I can, perhaps, reflect on one or two points.I was a local councillor for nine years from 1984 to 1993 and I was council leader for two years, during which time I had to carefully differentiate between my role as a local councillor and my role as council leader. When, in May, I became the member of the Scottish Parliament for Motherwell and Wishaw and was subsequently made Minister for Finance, I found myself in a situation with which I could compare experience from my past. I was immediately conscious of the need to separate those two roles.After I was appointed Minister for Finance I took immediate steps to appoint a researcher for the summer, who was based here in Edinburgh, to ensure that there was clear distinction between the roles until I employed a constituency assistant and my office was fully operational. I have at all times ensured that there is separation of those two roles. I have also been conscious that I should, as Minister for Finance, do things openly and transparently in my personal life and in my private activities, such as the occasions on which I accompany my wife, who holds a prominent public sector position.That is why my diary contains, as your independent adviser will have seen, a number of personal engagements, such as dinner parties, over the summer. They are there for the record. That is also why, in the \"Register of Members' Interests\" and in the ministerial record of gifts and interests I have, perhaps, over-declared what I do. I also declare all my wife's interests because I never want there to be any suggestion that I have been influenced in an improper fashion.The fact that I take all those steps has made the past five weeks particularly difficult, but I will continue to take them and I genuinely and sincerely welcome the fact that this committee has given me an opportunity to outline those facts. I was very confident on the first day of this affair that this committee would handle the situation properly. I have been confident every day since and I am confident today that the committee will produce its report quickly and that it will restore the reputations of the Parliament and of all of us in the way that it conducts and completes the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 624652,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 624662,
      "EditedText": "Do committee members agree that we do not want to seek any new evidence or witnesses? Apart from the evidence that Karen has already mentioned, which we have asked for and must examine, we wish to see no other additional evidence or witnesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 624663,
      "EditedText": "If I may clarify, we are going to meet on Friday at 2.30 in the afternoon, and we will meet to consider the further written evidence, of which there is not a lot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 624665,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I was just about to say that. We will be meeting in public because we will be considering evidence. As soon as we have done that, the investigation will be complete. Hopefully, the investigation will be concluded on Friday, and we will then get the officials to produce a draft report as soon as possible. We will certainly meet in public on Friday to conclude our investigation. Are we happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624666",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 624667,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other points? As there are none, I close the meeting."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 624416,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. Our only item of business this morning is the taking of evidence in relation to our inquiry into allegations that were reported in The Observer. We have invited the following people to attend and give evidence to the committee: Ms Christina Marshall, who is constituency secretary to Mr Jack McConnell MSP, and Mr McConnell himself, who is the Minister for Finance.In order to clarify our procedure, I propose to invite the witnesses to give evidence one by one, and that the order of appearance should be as I have just suggested. Each witness will have the opportunity to make a short opening statement. One committee member will take the lead in asking questions of a particular witness. Other members are absolutely free to ask supplementary questions, as they feel appropriate. I propose that the lead in questioning individual witnesses be as follows: Karen Gillon should lead questions to Christina Marshall, and Lord James should lead questions to Mr Jack McConnell. Is everybody happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 624418,
      "EditedText": "We agreed at our previous meeting on Monday on the particular lines of questioning that we wished to pursue with witnesses, and that witnesses should be required to give evidence on oath or to make a solemn affirmation. I remind everybody that this morning's witnesses are here by invitation, and although I expect that they will wish to co-operate as fully as possible with our inquiry, they cannot be compelled to answer any question. Only witnesses will be able to respond to questions put by committee members. However, witnesses' advisers will be able to confer with and advise witnesses. Advisers cannot address the committee directly, unless invited to do so by me. Witnesses should therefore indicate to me if their adviser requires to address the committee, on matters of procedure, for example.In accordance with the committee's wishes, I require the witnesses to take the oath or make an affirmation. I call Christina Marshall. May I remind you that you are required to give evidence under oath. I understand that you wish to take the oath rather than to make an affirmation."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 624420,
      "EditedText": "Before we start, Christina, could you introduce your adviser to the committee."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 624429,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. Does anyone else have any questions on that?Let us move on to the invitation to the finance director of the year award. When were you first contacted by Alex Barr about that invitation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 624424,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Ms Marshall. Before we start questioning I would like to say that we have to remember for everyone's benefit that your conduct is not a matter for this committee. The purpose of this investigation is to examine the conduct of MSPs and that is what we are focusing on. The questions to you this morning are to help us to establish the facts.Karen, would you like to start."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624431",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 624431,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624432",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624432,
      "EditedText": "It was some time in August. I am not sure of the date."
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    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624433",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624433,
      "EditedText": "Did he phone you on your mobile?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C624434",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624437",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 624437,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, there is some dubiety about where the conversation took place. You were in your car using a mobile, not in the constituency office."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624439",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 624439,
      "EditedText": "This is a pertinent point so, just for clarification, can you take us again through exactly what you said to Mr Barr and say what commitment, if any, you gave him?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C624442",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624442,
      "EditedText": "That is not what I said. I cannot comment on Mr Barr's activities. I have given you my recollection of the conversation."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624448",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "You said, in the information that you gave us this morning, that you wrote on a piece of paper in the car and then went back to the office and put it in the constituency diary forward planner. It seems quite strange to put an event for 25 February in the diary for 25 January. Why did you do that? I accept that that date is a month in advance, but why was nothing recorded for the date of the event itself? All that we have seen in the diary that we examined is a Tipp-Exed entry relating to Alex's dinner, which is not in the diary for that date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C624451",
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      "EditedText": "That was a personal reminder."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624452",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 624452,
      "EditedText": "When exactly did you tell Jack McConnell?"
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  {
    "ID": "C624463",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624463,
      "EditedText": "No note of the conversation with Mr Nelson? The conversation was typed up afterwards on a separate piece of paper."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624469",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624469,
      "EditedText": "When Mr Nelson phoned, the conversation was totally out of the blue. I did not expect to speak to him and I was not aware of what was going on. Afterwards, I was confused and I wanted to know what was happening. Allegations had been made—as you said, serious ones—on the telephone and I immediately typed up my conversation with Mr Nelson."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624470",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "Has that been destroyed?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624472",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624472,
      "EditedText": "Do you still have that record of the conversation?"
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "So that was on the day—"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 624483,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624486",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 624486,
      "EditedText": "So that tidying up would be standard procedure?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624492",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 624492,
      "EditedText": "Mr McConnell had phoned the office earlier and told me that he was on his way into the office. He was in, I imagine, the ministerial car. I do not have the telephone numbers for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
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    "ID": "C624494",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "C624498",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624498,
      "EditedText": "Alex Barr told me that he would send further documentation and Mr McConnell told me not to follow up the telephone conversation."
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "You thought that Alex Barr was going to send you something in the post."
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  {
    "ID": "C624506",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "EditedText": "I never followed it up. I made no attempt to contact Mr Barr."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624509",
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      "EditedText": "He told you not to and that he was \"unlikely to accept any invitation should he receive one\".Ms Marshall indicated agreement."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 624513,
      "EditedText": "I have one question about the notebook. Was it routine procedure to destroy notebooks once they were filled up?"
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  {
    "ID": "C624514",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes, that has been my routine procedure in the past."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624517",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "Therefore, there was nothing in that notebook that you considered current or on-going and it was your routine procedure to destroy notebooks?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624519",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 624519,
      "EditedText": "There was considerable press speculation about this notebook and I want to clarify the point, so that I am clear about what happened. If something was in the notebook that had to be carried over, was it routine procedure that that would have been transcribed into the new notebook?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624521",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "I do not want to know about specific cases, but if a constituent was to phone you up with confidential and life-threatening information, would you write that somewhere else and destroy the notebook?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624523",
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      "EditedText": "So, if anything of that nature had been in the previous notebook, it would be kept by Mr McConnell in an appropriate place."
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  {
    "ID": "C624536",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "EditedText": "My version is different from Mr Barr's: I can confirm that. I have given you my recollection of the conversation with Mr Barr. I never on any occasion gave him any indication that Mr McConnell would attend the event."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, Ms Marshall."
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    "ID": "C624541",
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      "EditedText": "I have never been employed in any way by Beattie Media."
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      "EditedText": "It was clear in my mind that they would send written information to us. I was informed by Mr McConnell not to follow this up in any way until we received the information which we both thought was in the process of being sent to us."
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 624550,
      "EditedText": "Why did you switch from one type to the other?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 624551,
      "EditedText": "When I started working for Mr McConnell, I did not have any stationery—there was nothing in the office. The office is shared with Mr Roy. There was a shorthand notebook, which was made available for my use until stationery was allocated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 624552,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions? Christina, thank you for attending this morning and answering our questions. I ask you to remain in the room during Mr McConnell's evidence. I suggest a suspension for 30 minutes so that committee members can consult our advisers before we proceed. Are we happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624553",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 624564,
      "EditedText": "One or two points arise out of the transcript of the video that was filmed by subterfuge.On page 2, Alex Barr said:\"Prior to the election, we appointed Jack McConnell . . . in the certain knowledge that Jack would get a safe seat from the Labour party and in the hope and expectation that he would also get a cabinet position within the new administration.\"When you were asked to work for the joint venture in which Beattie Media was involved, did you have any reason to believe that it might have an interested purpose in asking you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 624566,
      "EditedText": "Mr McConnell, you said earlier that you had taken great pains to put distance between yourself and Beattie Media once you were selected as a candidate. However, you have just told us that you sought permission to pursue the selection process as a condition of your employment. You were already an approved candidate by the time you went to Beattie Media—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 624567,
      "EditedText": "No. I was interviewed by the Labour party's selection panel in April 1998, I think. I accepted the offer of a job with Public Affairs Europe about three days before the Scottish Labour party conference in March 1998. The outcome of the selection interviews was not confirmed until the second week of June, which was after I had left my position as general secretary of the Scottish Labour party."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 624569,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 624571,
      "EditedText": "Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I do not regret the job that I did for those six or seven months in 1998, nor do I have any difficulty with anything I did in that position. I never, at any time—as I have stated before—carried out any activities that could be described as having to do with access to politicians or to confidential political information. In fact, the only politician's office that I was ever successful in telephoning on behalf of either Beattie Media or Maclay Murray & Spens was Mr Salmond's constituency office, for an event for Maclay Murray & Spens. That office was very helpful on that occasion. However, I have no reservations about doing that.Obviously, given what has happened over the past four weeks, I have wished on many occasions during that time that that job had never existed or that I had been doing something else last year. However, I do not regret the position that I took on, nor do I regret anything that I did when I was in that position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 624581,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether there has been any formal contact. I would imagine that there would have been contact between the constituency party and Beattie Media in the course of the winter last year, when the constituency party, without my involvement, organised a fund-raising dinner. A number of local companies took tables at that dinner, and I think that people from Beattie Media may have been there. However, that was a matter for the constituency party and not for me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 624575,
      "EditedText": "I would not describe that as regular contact compared with the level of contact that I have with many other organisations. I can think of a variety of organisations—for example, Scottish Financial Enterprise—that I and both my ministerial office and my constituency office in their different capacities have spoken to or received correspondence from on perhaps 15, 16, 17 or 18 occasions over the summer. In terms of the level of contact that I have with other bodies, I do not find that unusual.It is also important to remember that Beattie Media, as a public relations company, is very active in the Lanarkshire area, part of which I represent in the Parliament. However, it is appropriate to note—in front of the committee and on oath—that bodies such as the Lanarkshire Development Agency which use Beattie Media as a public relations firm contact MSPs in the Lanarkshire area directly. They do not go through Beattie Media. I would not describe four approaches as regular contact. It would be possible for other people who are active in Lanarkshire—probably not politicians, but others—to have much more regular contact with Beattie Media because of the level of their involvement in that area. Everything has to be seen in context.As I have made absolutely clear, I, as an individual, have not been in regular contact with the company. The only direct business contact between Beattie Media and me in the whole of the past six months has been a letter that I received from one of the company's account managers on the PR side, inviting me to visit Motherwell College. I have provided the full file of that correspondence to the committee's independent adviser. That approach was accepted as a constituency MSP, not as a minister, and a date was arranged. However, as I think Ms Marshall made clear this morning, Beattie Media was excluded from the meeting and from any arrangements for the meeting. The meeting itself actually concentrated on a number of important surgery cases that have been raised with me by students in the college rather than on any matters of policy or procedure.The fact that that is the only direct business contact between anybody from Beattie Media and me in the past six months shows that there is no regular contact. I am very conscious of the importance of that. I did not resign from my job on 23 November last year lightly. I knew exactly what I was doing. It was very important that, as a potential member of this Parliament, I was operating to the highest standards possible. I did so in advance of the election, and I have done so since the election. I think that there have been very clear signals to all public relations and public affairs companies that I operate to those standards. I can assure you that those who were corresponding with me over the summer have reduced in number as the months have gone by."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18735,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 624578,
      "EditedText": "Since you resigned from Beattie Media, have you had any other formal contact—in terms of your constituency Labour party—with the company?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 624579,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean me as a candidate, or the constituency party as a body?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 624584,
      "EditedText": "An e-mail from Dean Nelson states: \"Alec Barr and Kevin Reid have never phoned me at home. Kevin Reid was in charge of pagers. He may have organised my pager. Interesting that they do not know my new number.\"It goes on to give your new number, which I will not read out."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624586",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 624586,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify that?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624590",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 624590,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 624596,
      "EditedText": "May I return to where I left off? What was the nature of your work for Beattie Media's joint venture? Was it substantial?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 624599,
      "EditedText": "I have already made it clear—and I understand from the transcript that Alex Barr has made it clear—that that reference not only to regular contact, but to any contact between me and him is untrue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 624603,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 624605,
      "EditedText": "It is to her credit that she stopped working for Beattie Media 10 days before she started working for me. I suspect that that was, on her part, to ensure that there was a clean break between the two forms of employment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 624608,
      "EditedText": "Alex Barr said in the transcript that \"we saw the merit of her going to join Jack to work in his office\".Are you saying that any inference that might be drawn from those remarks that he or Beattie Media had anything to do with Christina Marshall's appointment is wholly wrong?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 624612,
      "EditedText": "When did you first know about the proposed invitation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 624616,
      "EditedText": "When did you discuss this with Christina?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 624621,
      "EditedText": "I presume that Ms Marshall Tipp-Exed out the note because I had said not to do anything about it. I presume that that is her normal practice in notebooks and diaries. However, I do not handle her diaries—I do not write in them, never mind adjust them in any way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 624628,
      "EditedText": "I will pick up on two things that you said. First, I would not describe what she did as pencilling it into the diary, because I think, as your independent adviser will have seen, that there is no pencil, pen or Tipp-Ex reference to the event in any diary page or diary section, either electronically or on the desk. There is a note in the wrong column of the forward planner. It is important to note what she said yet again this morning about pencilling it in for consideration, which is an accurate reflection of what she did. The conversation that I had with Mr Nelson took place the day after Ms Marshall's conversation with Mr Nelson. Clearly, we had discussed on the Friday afternoon what she had been asked by Mr Nelson and I had been reminded about the original conversation that we had had about this event. She was able to confirm for me on the Friday afternoon that she had had a note of the event, which had since been erased. It is important for me to say to the committee—this will perhaps be a common theme of this morning's evidence, from what I have heard—that my recollection of the conversation with Mr Nelson is slightly fuller than the version that you just repeated to me. Again, I have not seen his notes of those conversations, so it may be that the notes reflect this. However, I remember him pressing me on the Saturday morning about where she took a note of the matter and my saying, \"I don't know. I don't sit at her desk, but it was in some form of notebook.\" I think that he reflected that to you as \"it was in her notebook\". Now, that was early on a Saturday morning, and I am not commenting at all on either his notes or my recollection, but I think that it is important to put these things in context. I remember being asked three or four times by him, \"Where was this note? She says it was pencilled in for consideration.\" I remember saying, \"Well, it was in some form of notebook on her desk.\" I remember her having the book in front of her when we talked about the event."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 624633,
      "EditedText": "Your evidence is clear—Beattie Media had no control over your diary, and any inference that it did is totally and absolutely wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 624634,
      "EditedText": "Neither Beattie Media, nor anyone else, has any undue influence over my diary. I want that to be absolutely crystal clear. I was approached on three occasions over the summer by public affairs companies—none of them Beattie Media—to have meetings with their clients. On all three occasions, I asked the companies to ensure that their clients wrote to me directly, not through them. I made it clear that only on that basis would I even consider the possibility of meeting their clients. I do not organise meetings through third parties, either in my constituency or in my ministerial office. I want that to be put on the record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 624637,
      "EditedText": "Let me return to the issue of invitations. If an invitation is issued  by an official body to you in your capacity as Minister for Finance, would not it be normal and appropriate to send that invitation to your ministerial office so that it could be properly processed along with other invitations and be considered on its merits?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 624641,
      "EditedText": "I have just a couple of points to tidy things up. You will understand that there has been a lot of conversation about a notebook. Obviously, that has caused some concern for you and for this committee. Earlier, Ms Marshall indicated that rough notes about confidential and, as you called them, life-threatening incidents in your constituency would be held. Can you confirm whether, if that were the case, you would pass life-threatening allegations on to the police?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 624642,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Of course. It is important to reiterate this morning a point that I made in my letter to the independent adviser. I assume that it has been drawn to the attention of the committee but I would like to do so formally myself. One of the notebooks that you have in your possession contains an entry that I regard as potentially dangerous to some of the people that are mentioned. I am very keen that that notebook does not openly enter the public domain without me being aware of it in advance.Both Frank Roy and I, who work very closely as an MP and an MSP, deal with a large number of confidential cases on a regular basis, as I suspect that all of you do. Sometimes those cases are about crime. At the moment, in our constituency, there have been a number of dangerous and violent incidents, particularly at weekends, and we are currently dealing with the aftermath of those incidents. We have to do that confidentially, sometimes verbally and sometimes in writing, and we treat information with every confidence. I suspect that, as a result of the discussions in the committee this morning, we may have to review how we hold that information in the office. I would not like to be in a situation in which the office is suspected of containing information that people might want to get their hands on. I want to make it absolutely clear that that arrangement will be reviewed as a result of the evidence that we have had to give to this committee and which we have openly given in good faith."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 624649,
      "EditedText": "That is my home number, I presume. I have never seen that contacts book."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 624651,
      "EditedText": "I cannot remember exactly, but Mr Barr, in his evidence to the committee, made reference to the fact that my home telephone number was in the Beattie Media records at the time that I was working for Public Affairs Europe. It is safe to assume that if he had my home telephone number at that stage, he will not have deleted it from his contacts book. I know for a fact that he does not have my private home telephone number because the line with that number has just been installed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 624654,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Jack, for your responses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 624656,
      "EditedText": "That concludes the evidence that we will receive today. I would like to remind everyone that both witnesses have the opportunity to comment on the draft record of the evidence that they have given, and they may, if so advised, submit further comments to me in writing. It would be appreciated if that information could come to us quickly so that we can progress with our investigation. We will have a short suspension so that we can consult our advisers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 624659,
      "EditedText": "Committee members have asked for a couple of pieces of evidence that we wish to consider before we come to any conclusions on this issue. I suggest that we ask for that evidence and reconvene at 2.30 on Friday afternoon to consider the evidence and examine the matter further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624660",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 624660,
      "EditedText": "Is everybody happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C624661",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
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      "ID": 169
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 624661,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 624664,
      "EditedText": "I wish to clarify that we will be meeting in public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5471414+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624668",
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      "ID": 3475
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 624668,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:05."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 624427,
      "EditedText": "So you do not keep any e-mail or written contact with them, except in relation to those specific events?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 624428,
      "EditedText": "Not in relation to Mr McConnell; only on a personal basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 624423,
      "EditedText": "I am Christina Marshall and I am 22 years old. I am the constituency secretary to Jack McConnell MSP. I left school in 1995 and attended Bell College for two years, where I obtained a higher national diploma in information and office management. On graduating, I worked in Westminster for six months in the office of my father, David Marshall, MP for Glasgow Shettleston. In 1998, I worked for three months in Washington as an intern for the Financial Times.When I returned to Scotland, I was employed as assistant personal assistant to Gordon Beattie, managing director of Beattie Media. I started work with Beattie Media on 11 May 1998, and in September 1998 I was promoted to the events division of the company. While working for Beattie Media, I met Jack McConnell. Mr McConnell was the chief executive of Public Affairs Europe Ltd, a company in which Beattie Media had an interest.I applied for the post of constituency secretary to Jack McConnell as the result of an advertisement in a local newspaper. I was interviewed for the job by both Mr McConnell and Professor Mike Donnelly. On being offered the job, I resigned from Beattie Media. I should say that at that time Gordon Beattie and Graham Isdale of Beattie Media each asked me, on separate occasions, to continue with the company. The suggestion that Beattie Media had placed me to work with Mr McConnell is wrong. I am interested in politics and preferred to take up the post of constituency secretary. I left Beattie Media on 9 July and started my new job on 19 July 1999.I am Mr McConnell's only constituency secretary, and when I started the job I immediately set about developing appropriate office systems for constituency work. Although I have an office in Edinburgh, I work principally from the constituency office in Wishaw. My job is to deal with constituency matters, not ministerial matters. Mr McConnell has a ministerial office in Edinburgh, which sends me material relating to constituency issues. I open mail for Mr McConnell that is received in the constituency office and send any material relating to a ministerial issue to his private office.In briefing me about my role, Mr McConnell informed me that any correspondence addressed to him in his capacity as a minister must be sent to his private ministerial office. My general understanding of how to deal with an invitation to a minister is that it should be put in writing and sent to the appropriate ministerial office. A formal reply will, in due course, be sent from that office.From time to time, I receive invitations to Mr McConnell in his capacity as a constituency MSP. Sometimes those are in writing, but sometimes they are made very informally, by a constituent or group within the constituency. My practice is to note any such invitation in my A4 notebook and to speak to Mr McConnell about it. The normal procedure is for me then to respond in writing to the person who made the invitation.Since leaving Beattie Media on 9 July 1999, I have spoken to Alex Barr on only two occasions: once at a social function during the summer, and again when he telephoned me one Thursday afternoon in August, while I was driving. I stopped my car to speak to Mr Barr and, after general conversation, he asked if I had access to Mr McConnell's diary. I told him that I could make arrangements relating to constituency matters that might take place on a Friday, but that any other arrangement had to go through his ministerial office.Mr Barr, who, I know, works in public relations, told me that Beattie Media was helping to organise an event which, I understood, was to take place in the new year. He explained that the event would be a dinner to make an award to the financial person of the year. He suggested that Mr McConnell would be an appropriate person to make a speech at that dinner and that it would represent a good platform for him. I told Mr Barr that, as far as I was aware, Mr McConnell had nothing in his diary for any evening in 2000, but that I would have to find out if Mr McConnell would be interested in attending such an event. Mr Barr said that that would be great and asked me if I would do that. I indicated that I would and Mr Barr said that he would send further information in due course. He did not do that. My understanding of my conversation with Mr Barr was that he wished me to find out whether Mr McConnell would be interested in speaking at the event. I did not regard that as an invitation. I took a brief note of the call on a piece of paper in the car. I did not at any point inform Mr Barr that Mr McConnell would attend the event.On the day after the telephone conversation with Mr Barr, I took a note of the event in the forward planner of the calendar at the back of the 1999 desk diary. It was never entered into Mr McConnell's diary nor referred to in any notebook. Mr McConnell was in Wishaw that day and I told him about my conversation with Mr Barr. Mr McConnell indicated that I need not bother responding to the informal approach that Mr Barr had made unless an invitation was received in writing. Mr McConnell also indicated that he was unlikely to accept any invitation should he receive one.I have had no further contact with anyone from Beattie Media in relation to the proposed event. After I spoke to Mr McConnell I Tipp-Exed over the entry in the forward planner. The brief note that I had made of my telephone conversation with Mr Barr was on a piece of paper. Once I had placed a note in the forward planner, I disposed of the piece of paper, as is my practice.I keep an A4 notebook in which I record matters on which I am working. Previously, I used shorthand notebooks. Once shorthand notebooks were full, I would go through them and note down in new books items that remained outstanding. The old books were then routinely destroyed. The shorthand notebook that I had around the time of my conversation with Mr Barr was destroyed approximately two to three weeks before The Observer story was first published. In any event, it did not contain any entry relating to my conversation with Mr Barr or the event to which he refers.Mr Nelson of The Observer called me on 24 September and asked me a number of questions. In particular, he asked if I could confirm that Mr McConnell would be speaking at the finance person of the year dinner. I said no. I told him that the event had only been pencilled in for Mr McConnell's consideration. Mr Nelson said that he had been speaking to Mr Barr, who had said that it had been confirmed that Mr McConnell would be the speaker. I told Mr Nelson that Mr McConnell was not aware of that. By that I meant that, as Mr McConnell had never received an invitation to attend the event, he could not have confirmed that he would be the speaker.I am proud of, and value very much, my job as constituency secretary to Mr McConnell. I hope that this statement is helpful. I am pleased to answer any relevant questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 624426,
      "EditedText": "I have had contact with Beattie Media on business matters on four occasions. One was the conversation with Mr Barr. Another was an invitation from a junior member of staff for Mr McConnell to attend a football game. That was on behalf of the Scottish Premier League. I then obtained the telephone number of the girl at the SPL and telephoned her to follow up the invitation. All other communication was between the SPL and me.On one occasion I received a call from a public relations accounts executive at Beattie Media, who was aware that Mr McConnell was visiting Motherwell College, which is in his constituency. I was asked whether Mr McConnell would like publicity for that meeting. I informed the executive that it was a private, closed-door meeting, that no third party was involved and that it was not appropriate for any representative of Beattie Media to be there.Another occasion was a personal invitation from a director of the company for Mr McConnell and me to attend a staff barbecue during the summer. Mr McConnell declined the invitation and I went for about an hour on the evening.I also keep regular contact with junior members of staff at Beattie Media on a personal basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 624436,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 624440,
      "EditedText": "Mr Barr phoned. He asked how I was and whether I was enjoying the job and I said yes. He then asked if I had access to Mr McConnell's diary. I told him that I could be involved in arranging local constituency matters on Fridays but that anything else would have to go through his private ministerial office in Edinburgh.Mr Barr then explained that he was involved in the organisation of a finance person of the year dinner and he thought that it would be appropriate for Mr McConnell to be the key speaker at the event as it would be good publicity for him as Minister for Finance. He asked me if I knew whether Mr McConnell's diary was free and I said that I knew that he did not have any evening engagements in 2000 to the best of my knowledge, but that I would have to find out whether he would be interested in such an event were he to be invited.Mr Barr then asked if I would put it to Mr McConnell for his consideration and I said that I would. That was the only commitment that I gave—that I would ask Mr McConnell whether or not he would be interested in attending. In no way did I indicate that he would be there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 624441,
      "EditedText": "The committee has to be clear about this. According to the Official Report for Friday 8 October, Mr Barr said, when I pursued him on the matter, that you had told him:\"I will pencil it in. If you have not heard back from me in a couple of days, then you can consider it confirmed.\"Are you saying that that is not what you said and that Mr Barr lied to this committee under oath?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 624444,
      "EditedText": "I never said that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 624445,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 624446,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, Christina. On that particular point, when we interviewed Alex Barr and other people from Beattie Media, they said under oath that they did not have undue influence on ministers and they denied a lot of what was in the transcripts from The Observer. The only point that they were absolutely determined on and the only point that they really held on to concerned your conversation relating to the Minister for Finance, his diary and the engagement. The people from Beattie Media continued to assert that you made the statement:\"I will pencil it in. If you have not heard back from me in a couple of days, then you can consider it confirmed.\"—Official Report, Standards Committee, 8 October 1999; c 123.Are you saying categorically that that was not how the conversation went?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 624450,
      "EditedText": "Just to clarify that, you put it in the diary for 25 January 2000, because that is when you thought that the event was taking place and you wrote in Alex's diary that you were going to speak to Mr McConnell."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 624454,
      "EditedText": "Do you know roughly when that was?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 624455,
      "EditedText": "I think that it was some time near the middle to the end of August. I do not know the exact date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 624456,
      "EditedText": "You spoke to Jack at that point. What did Jack tell you to do?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 624457,
      "EditedText": "He said that I should not respond to the informal inquiry and that I should wait and see whether an invitation was sent. If an invitation arrived, he said that I should forward it to his ministerial office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 624461,
      "EditedText": "It was in relation to Mr Nelson's question as to whether it was confirmed. I said no, as Mr McConnell was not aware that he was the confirmed speaker."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 624467,
      "EditedText": "No, it is 2 September."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1803,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 624468,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, September. I keep getting September and October mixed up.There is nothing about the conversation with Dean Nelson in the notebook and that is something that we find a wee bit strange."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C624471",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "ID": 169
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "EditedText": "No."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 624476,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask—I do not know whether Karen has dealt with the issue—when you Tipp-Exed out the entry."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624477",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
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      "EditedText": "After Mr McConnell told me that I was not to follow up the inquiry?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624478",
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      "ID": 3475
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Right."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624479,
      "EditedText": "The note was no longer relevant."
    },
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    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624482",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "That was on the day that you first mentioned the conversation to Mr McConnell."
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 624484,
      "EditedText": "At that point, he said, \"You don't need to follow it up, so you can Tipp-Ex it out\"."
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      "EditedText": "No, it is not. I thought that, given the nature of this telephone conversation, it was important that a record be kept."
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      "EditedText": "Did you then phone Mr McConnell, to speak to him about the telephone conversation that you had had with Dean Nelson?"
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      "EditedText": "I have a couple of other points.Mr McConnell told you not to do anything about the situation until you received an official invite."
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      "EditedText": "Okay. I want to get this clear. You did not believe that you had given any commitment to Alex Barr in relation to this invitation."
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      "EditedText": "That is correct."
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      "EditedText": "No, because in my mind, something was already in the process of being typewritten and sent to us. I was informed not to follow up the telephone conversation."
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      "EditedText": "You never bothered to do that. You never followed it up."
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      "EditedText": "Because Mr McConnell had told you that—"
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      "EditedText": "Was this particular notebook filled before it was destroyed?"
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      "EditedText": "Yes, it has been my routine procedure to destroy them."
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      "EditedText": "Would the rough notes have been destroyed when you completed the official documentation?"
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    "ID": "C624526",
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      "EditedText": "The rough notes would be destroyed when the notebook was destroyed—once it was completed."
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  {
    "ID": "C624528",
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      "EditedText": "That can be seen from the A4 notebook, which I believe the external adviser has. There is information in it which is confidential, but it will remain there until the notebook is completed, and it will be destroyed. The notebook is kept locked in my top drawer, in my desk."
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      "EditedText": "Can I be clear about this, Christina? If material of a confidential nature was put into the notebook, would that be rough notes only?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 624532,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624534",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Marshall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 624534,
      "EditedText": "It has never been the team procedure to rip pages out of notebooks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 624538,
      "EditedText": "I wish to ask one question—I think that you have already answered it, Ms Marshall. I believe that I am correct in thinking that on 19 July, you started work for Jack McConnell."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 624540,
      "EditedText": "From that date on, you were not in any way employed by Beattie Media."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 624542,
      "EditedText": "Would this be the procedure: if someone rang up requesting Mr McConnell's attendance, or suggesting that it might be interesting for Mr McConnell to attend a particular meeting, conference, dinner or whatever, would you normally pencil that into the diary at that time? Would you respond in the way that has been suggested?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 624544,
      "EditedText": "You say in your evidence, Christina, that you receive informal invites from constituency groups. I take it that, in what you have just said, you are referring to Mr McConnell's ministerial role. You say in your evidence that you get informal invites from constituency groups all the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 624546,
      "EditedText": "You said that you would have picked up the phone or dropped those people a letter. You did not think that you should do that with Alex Barr. There is no way that you thought that you were under any obligation to get back to Beattie Media, your former employer, about the invitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 624556,
      "EditedText": "I call Mr Jack McConnell. I remind you, Mr McConnell, that you are required to give evidence under oath. I understand that you wish to make a solemn affirmation.The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell) made a solemn affirmation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624557",
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      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
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      "EditedText": "Do you have an opening statement to make?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 624562,
      "EditedText": "In your statement, you said that you had spoken to Gordon Beattie twice since the election. In his evidence, he said that he had spoken to you three times:\"I have spoken to Jack McConnell on two occasions: the first time to congratulate him on his appointment, the second on a personal matter regarding someone who had an illness. There was one other occasion when we came into contact. We met at an Arts and Business event in Edinburgh.\"—Official Report, Standards Committee, 8 October 1999; c 156.Whether you spoke to him two times or three times, each occasion was purely social, was it not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 624558,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I do. I am pleased to be here today to rebut the unfounded allegations that have been repeated frequently over recent weeks. Within hours of hearing of those false claims, I referred the matter to the Standards Committee, because I firmly believed that the allegations should be investigated openly by the committee. I welcome this opportunity to lay the facts before you.There are three main issues of concern. The first is that, as a former employee of a public affairs firm who became an MSP and a minister, I was somehow open to undue influence. I worked for Public Affairs Europe Ltd, a firm jointly owned by Maclay Murray & Spens and Beattie Media, for less than nine months. I have been in public service for more than a decade. As a result of my previous experience as a councillor and as a leader of a local authority, I am acutely aware of the need to organise my official responsibilities in a proper and responsible manner. As members of the committee will know, as a minister I am bound by the Scottish ministerial code. It sets out the highest standards of conduct expected of ministers. Ministers are required to ensure that no conflict arises between their public duties and their private interests, and they must keep separate their roles as minister and as constituency member.I welcome this opportunity to give my categorical assurance to you that I have never at any stage breached that ministerial code. There is no evidence to suggest that I have ever been—or would be—improperly influenced in conducting my ministerial duties. Indeed, I have a clear procedure that explicitly prevents that in all meetings with outside bodies, either as an MSP or as a minister.The second issue concerns the appointment of Christina Marshall as my constituency assistant. It has been suggested that she was employed because she used to work for Beattie Media. That is not true. When I was elected as the MSP for Motherwell and Wishaw on 6 May 1999, it was the proudest day of my life. Those who elected me are my first and most important responsibility. I wanted to have an effective constituency office and I needed a professional constituency assistant. The post was advertised openly in the local press. All applications went through a normal shortlisting process and six candidates were interviewed for the job. Professor Mike Donnelly, professor of management at the University of Paisley, assisted me at the interviews. Christina Marshall was the best candidate. She was selected entirely on merit—any suggestion to the contrary is simply not true.Since then, with Christina's help, I have run a busy parliamentary advice centre. While—as is normal practice—my constituency office and my ministerial office are in regular contact, they operate professionally to ensure a proper separation of roles. That means that my ministerial private office does not respond to invitations that are issued to me as an MSP and my constituency office does not respond to invitations that are sent to me as a minister.The third false claim is that Beattie Media was able to place an appointment in my diary. That is not true. My ministerial private office holds my diary on computer. I have only one diary, which is the sole authoritative record of engagements. As is normal practice, it incorporates all appointments: ministerial, constituency and personal. To avoid confusion, my constituency assistant copies that information into a desk diary. Both the computer original and the constituency copy contain provisional entries—which are marked as such—pending my decision whether to accept them. The desk copy is corrected and updated as the computer diary changes. That is standard practice to avoid double bookings. Much comment has been attracted by the claim that on the basis of a telephone inquiry to my constituency office, Beattie Media was able to commit me to attending an event—described as the financial director of the year award—in February 2000. The truth is that at no time did my constituency assistant commit me—even provisionally—to attending that engagement. She recalls making a brief note of the inquiry in the year planner at the back of her desk diary for 1999, which she later discussed with me. No reference to the event ever appeared in any other office notebook or file. Again, as is routine, I told Christina that if I received a written invitation, I would consider whether to attend the event. If that had been the case, my ministerial private office would have followed standard practice and sought advice from the relevant department. No invitation was received, the matter stopped there, and at that point the note was erased from the year planner. Finally, there is a consistent suggestion that I have had regular or improper contact with Beattie Media. That is not true. Since I was elected, Gordon Beattie has spoken to me only twice: the first time was to congratulate me on my being elected and the second was to inform me of the illness of a mutual acquaintance. I have had no contact whatsoever with Kevin Reid or Alex Barr.In conclusion, I repeat that I have never been open to undue influence arising from my former employment. The appointment of Christina Marshall as my constituency assistant was carried out in an open, fair and professional way. Beattie Media did not—and would never be able to—place an appointment in my diary. You are—like me—members of this Parliament. We are here to serve those who elected us. I have not acted and will never act in any way that lets down the people of Motherwell and Wishaw. I have not acted and will never act in any way that would damage the reputation of the Parliament, or the ministerial office that I am privileged to hold. That reputation must be upheld; I recognise your role in that, which is why I have been happy to appear under oath today to tell the truth. Openness and integrity must remain the hallmarks of public office—you are charged with ensuring that that is the case. I wish you well and I will be pleased to answer any questions that you may have."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624560",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 624560,
      "EditedText": "First, I would like to thank you both for your letter of 14 October and for the statement, which may cover some of the questions that I wish to ask. It would be useful to clarify the facts with you. What steps did you take to distance yourself from Beattie Media after the election and your appointment as minister?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624563",
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      "ID": 3475
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 624563,
      "EditedText": "Two were informal, non-business, phone calls. I do not recall the other occasion, but my wife remembered it after I read the Official Report of the committee meeting. I cannot say that I remember the meeting, which was obviously a fleeting one."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 624565,
      "EditedText": "It was clear, from the first approach to me by Gordon Beattie and the managing partner of Maclay Murray & Spens, that they were not suggesting that I should act improperly in the job or that their offer was linked to any future employment that I might have. It would have suited them better if I did not intend to become a candidate. I think that they would have preferred to have a chief executive who was more likely to stay with them for a longer time. However, I made it a condition of my employment that I would be able, during the summer and autumn of 1998, to seek selection as a Labour party candidate. They agreed to that. The condition was suggested by me but regretted by them, even at an early stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624568",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 624568,
      "EditedText": "So you were actively pursuing the possibility of being a candidate at that time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 624572,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask a further question at this point. You say that you have not had regular contact with Beattie Media. However, your constituency secretary, Christina Marshall, said that, since she took up her appointment in July, there had been four official approaches from Beattie Media. What would you consider to be regular contact with your office or yourself?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 624582,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to ask you about your contact with The Observer, to tidy things up. Having read the transcript, you will probably know that your pager number was the subject of considerable interest from Alex Barr. On 8 October, I asked both Alex Barr and Kevin Reid about your pager number. They gave me different numbers, neither of which was your current pager number. However, I was interested in the notes that Dean Nelson gave us. You volunteered to Dean Nelson on 25 September that you found it interesting that Kevin Reid and Alex Barr did not have your new pager number. How did you know that they did not have your new pager number?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 624580,
      "EditedText": "The constituency party as a body, in particular."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 624583,
      "EditedText": "I do not recall that part of the transcript."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 624585,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry—I have never seen the notes of Mr Nelson's conversations with Ms Marshall, me or anyone else over the past four or five weeks. Given the fairly selective way in which they have been quoted from time to time, I look forward to seeing them at some stage, to ensure that they are clear and accurate. We have already heard—and I heard sitting in the gallery this morning—of one case in which it was important to clarify a phrase that he had taken from a conversation without giving a full explanation of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 624587,
      "EditedText": "I can certainly clarify that point. The point that I was making to Mr Nelson at that point in the conversation was that I thought that it would be interesting for him that I had a new pager number and that neither Kevin Reid nor Alex Barr had that pager number. That was me illustrating the point that they were not in contact with me. I was trying to get over to him—I suspect, on the day, unsuccessfully—that we were not in contact, and I was trying to reinforce that fact to him before he printed his story."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 624588,
      "EditedText": "Did you decide to get a new pager number because you did not want Alex Barr, Kevin Reid and Dean Nelson to know that they had your number, or was it routine for the Labour party group, of which you were a part, to have new pager numbers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 624589,
      "EditedText": "Neither Alex Barr nor Kevin Reid used my pager number, my mobile phone number, my home number, my work number or my constituency office number—any of those numbers—from the day that I was elected. To be frank, I had not thought about either of them until all this happened and I certainly would not have used either of them as a reason to change any of my phone numbers. I can think of other people who phone me regularly who might give me that reason, but the pager number was changed as a result of the Labour party group in the Parliament deciding to move to a new pager system. At that stage, my pager number was changed; that was the sole reason for that to happen.Perhaps I should say at this stage, publicly and on the record of the committee, that I intend to change my mobile telephone number because the advertisement of that number at a recent committee meeting has provoked a few interesting telephone calls."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 624598,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I refer to the transcript of the original interview. On page 11, Alex Barr says:\"We speak to Jack regularly. I can pick up the phone to Jack\".I think the First Minister used the phrase \"sales pitch\". Do you feel that Alex Barr was pitching it too strongly in using those words?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 624602,
      "EditedText": "Am I correct in thinking that, on 19 July, Christina Marshall started working for you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 624607,
      "EditedText": "I want to make this absolutely clear to the committee. When I worked for Public Affairs Europe, I was the sole employee. Even in her capacity as a secretary at Beattie Media, Christina Marshall did not work for me. She has accurately recalled that, in her role as the assistant secretary or personal assistant to Mr Beattie himself, she perhaps typed five or six letters for me on one occasion when she had spare time and I was looking for somebody to do some work. The suggestion either that she worked for me in 1998 or that she was placed with me by anybody—not just Beattie Media—is entirely untrue. Very soon after I was elected a member of the Scottish Parliament, I conducted a strictly professional selection process for the appointment of my constituency assistant. I think that I was the first member of the Parliament to have an open constituency office. I was certainly among the first to have a joint office with another member of Parliament and to conduct surgeries jointly with the local MP. I was also among the first to have a properly staffed constituency office. I treated that matter very seriously. Local people in Motherwell and Wishaw need to be absolutely reassured—I hope that the committee will help me in this—that, when they approach my office, they are approaching a professional service that treats their business confidentially and ensures that it is dealt with by the appropriate body and in an appropriate, professional and confidential manner. As long as I am a member of the Scottish Parliament, I will stick to those standards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 624609,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. I employ a very professional constituency assistant. It would be very wrong to suggest anything else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 624613,
      "EditedText": "I believe that Ms Marshall raised it with me the day after her telephone conversation with Mr Barr."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 624614,
      "EditedText": "Was that on or about 26 September?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 624615,
      "EditedText": "No, the first conversation that I had with Christina Marshall about her telephone conversation with Mr Barr was some time in the second half of August. I was on holiday in the first half of August, and the conversation took place shortly after I came back from my holiday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 624619,
      "EditedText": "The matter was pending. The impression that I was given that day was that it was pending written confirmation from the company. I took the view that we should wait for the company to send us that information before Christina took any further action. In the meantime, as I was not inclined to accept the invitation, even once we had received the written information—although I thought that it was fair to wait for it—I said that she should not follow up the conversation that she had had."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 624620,
      "EditedText": "I think that I am correct in saying that the year-ahead planner contained a note that was Tipp-Exed out. Why was that? Can you enlighten us on that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 624622,
      "EditedText": "When the page is held up to the light, the words \"Alex's dinner\" can be read under the Tipp-Ex. You were not aware of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 624623,
      "EditedText": "I cannot remember exactly what was in front of me, but I remember having the conversation across the desk in my office, Ms Marshall asking me about the conversation that she had had, my saying clearly that I thought that we should wait for written information to arrive, and her clearly being under the impression that she would receive written information. That was the end of the matter as far as I was concerned. I did not even think about the event, or the conversation, again until Mr Nelson started telephoning people on Friday 24 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 624624,
      "EditedText": "Lord James, may I bring in Richard at this point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 624627,
      "EditedText": "Mr McConnell, you mentioned that you did not know in detail what Christina did with diaries, notebooks and such like. However—and this is an important point—in your conversation with Dean Nelson, you indicated to him that she had pencilled the proposed invitation, or whatever you would like to call it, in her notebook. That is what stimulated this committee to ask for the notebook, which gained some notoriety, shall we say, over the weekend. However, in your letter to us, you indicated that the invitation was not put in the notebook and that it was pencilled into the diary. That is an obvious discrepancy. Would you like to explain that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 624630,
      "EditedText": "Exactly what I have told the committee this morning. On Friday 24 September, the day that Ms Marshall took the first telephone call—the day on which Government staff first had telephone conversations with The Observer about this story—I produced for the First Minister a question and answer presentation on the contacts with Beattie Media and on the specific allegations that had been mentioned on that day. I am perfectly happy to furnish that to the independent adviser to the committee—there would be no difficulty with that whatever. There is only one thing missing from it, which is the reference to the Motherwell College correspondence from back in May. That was because, at that time, I forgot about it and it took me two or three days to remember it, as Beattie Media had never been involved in the meeting with Motherwell College, which was a constituency, rather than a ministerial, event in any case. I had forgotten about that contact. However, everything else is in that question and answer presentation. I also have a slightly stained copy—which I recalled from listening to this morning's presentations in relation to my constituency assistant—of the typewritten note that Ms Marshall completed after her conversation with Mr Nelson and before I arrived in the constituency office. When I arrived, we talked about the conversation and she presented me with a typed note of her conversation, which she had taken quickly for the record. I have my early, stained version of that, which I have held on to since that day. I would be happy to furnish that to the committee today, as I understand that you want to produce your report quickly. I would not want there to be any delay in your getting that note, which was asked for this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 624632,
      "EditedText": "That is what she tells me that she does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 624635,
      "EditedText": "I want to clear up one other matter. On page 10 of The Observer's transcript, it is stated that Kevin Reid said\". . . budgets over the next two years but instead of cutting them back he's going to try to ?put more money into education. . . \".Allegations were made that Mr Reid had advance knowledge of the budget. Had not the information already been published through the BBC?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 624640,
      "EditedText": "It is the kind of event that I would probably like to be involved in. However, as I said earlier, because of the apparent timing of the event, it is probably not an invitation that I would accept, particularly in the first year of my role as Minister for Finance and for budgeting for the Parliament. I think that it is important that, in the early part of 2000, I concentrate on the most important duty that I have in this Parliament, which is to see the annual budget through on time to a stage at which the Executive members and officials can spend money on 1 April next year without finding ourselves in any difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 624645,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 624648,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a final point. I am curious about a point that you made earlier. We have a copy of the special adviser's report in front of us. Mr Duncan said in that report—and I referred to this on Monday—that there were three telephone numbers listed for you. The report says:\"None of the three numbers is an Edinburgh number or a Scottish Parliament number. Mr Duncan has lodged the numbers in confidence with the Chief Executive.\"I asked at the meeting of this committee on Monday what those numbers were and I was told that one of them was your constituency office—we have dealt with that—and that another was a Stirling or Bridge of Allan number."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18735,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 624650,
      "EditedText": "I do not know what that number is, I have never asked what that number is and I do not think that anyone else from the committee has asked what that number is. You clearly said earlier that it is funny that Alex Barr does not have your private number. How do you know that Alex Barr did not have your private number? It was the private number that was given to the special adviser, so why did you assume that it was your home number that we were talking about when you have clearly not seen the number that Mr Barr has? You have not, and neither have we, seen Mr Duncan's report. The chief executive is, as far as I know, the only person who knows what those numbers are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 624653,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C624655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18735,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 624655,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3475
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 624658,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5315198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 603982,
      "EditedText": "John has done a great deal of work, which has helped us to move the housing agenda forward—that must continue.We must examine stock transfer. We might be able to move that forward if we take on board some of the briefings on those issues that we have had from the Scottish Parliament information centre. Some of the issues, such as the stock transfer process, are contemporary. We must not, however, talk only to the national agencies—we must talk to the councils and to the tenants.I spoke to the Scottish Council for Single Homeless yesterday—it suggested that we should wait until the spring of next year to examine homelessness. Scottish Homes has just commissioned it to examine the consequences of the new housing partnerships on homelessness. As a committee, we will have to examine that when we consider the housing bill.As we will have to examine that issue anyway, some of the pressure might be relieved if we have a session with council landlords, a session with tenants—in which we must include rural tenants—and a session with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the Chartered Institute for Housing in Scotland, but leave having a session on homelessness and stock transfer until later in the spring. At that point, there will be a report from the Scottish Council for Single Homeless and Scottish Homes. There will also be a session with Shelter at that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1814562+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 603989,
      "EditedText": "Would COSLA know the processes that individual councils have in place? We should do a case study."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1814562+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C604025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 604025,
      "EditedText": "Can I just have clarification that, next week, we will do two things—work on the social inclusion action teams and hear evidence to prepare us for the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1814562+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 603968,
      "EditedText": "You are absolutely right. GAP extended too far, geographically. That is where all the management problems came from. Two steps will be taken. Step 1 will be the transfer to another landlord; step 2 will be to regroup the housing associations more logically, geographically. The first of those steps is in train at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 603970,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but there will be two steps. The first will be to put in place stronger management. That is the immediate aim. When that has happened, the next step will be to recreate. As the situation in Glasgow improves—and it is similar in Bridgeton and Dalmarnock—we would like it to be part of an overall Glasgow plan, as quite a lot of what GAP has is in Glasgow. We would like it to be part of that thought process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 603972,
      "EditedText": "There are three questions there. Peter, would you like to address the issue of residual stock?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 603975,
      "EditedText": "So are you saying that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 603977,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Margaret, for your time. Thank you to you all. If you want to visit any of the associations, we would be delighted to organise it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
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      "ID": 18290,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 603981,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate the difficulties. Thank you very much.We should discuss the general principles and deal later with the specifics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 603991,
      "EditedText": "I ask John to liaise with Fiona and Robert, to ensure that you achieve your aims. We all appreciate that there might be difficulties, as local authorities will feel that they must report to us. That might be difficult for them. If we are reasonably sensitive, we should be able to find out about some of the issues that Fiona wants to explore. Glasgow is obviously a key area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 603992,
      "EditedText": "From our previous discussions, I assume that members are thinking about Glasgow City Council and Dumfries and Galloway Council. We could contact both and ask them whether they are prepared to come to a meeting of this committee. If Shelter and the Scottish Council for Single Homeless are happy to postpone their attendance until next year, that creates a space for those councils to come in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 603994,
      "EditedText": "It might be useful for the councils to come in after the tenants, so we will have heard the tenants' views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 603996,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
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      "ID": 18290,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 603997,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to discuss the details now. We can look back at a decision we made earlier and try to keep to it this time. We decided that we would try to run turnabout sessions. Given that we have the warrant sales programme to deal with, I will suggest a model of parallel strategies. We have more or less agreed this already. We would have the drugs inquiry work on the Mondays and Fridays model and examine housing and warrant sales on alternate Wednesdays. That would help John to programme events."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 603998,
      "EditedText": "Do we intend to take evidence on Mondays and Fridays?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604003",
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 604003,
      "EditedText": "I have tried to get my head round this issue. As John McAllion's recent article in The Herald showed, we will have real difficulty getting through the work load. It is especially difficult for members who sit on two committees. I do not think that there is a watertight solution to this. We must, perhaps, accept that there will be some problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 604004,
      "EditedText": "I want to make a suggestion, as this is a problem that will increase, rather than diminish, with time. Sometimes visits could be carried out by an ad hoc group of two, three or four members—perhaps with a special interest in the matter in question—who could report back to the rest of us. We are already experiencing problems and, inevitably, people will have to miss meetings. Nobody likes doing that, if it can be avoided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 604010,
      "EditedText": "I am quite happy for us to meet every other Wednesday to deal with housing and warrant sales. The problem concerns our visits. At the moment they are focused on the drugs issue, but in a year's time they may relate to something else.We had already established that in the last week of each month we would set aside either a Monday or a Friday for a visit. We should stick to that, allowing for the possibility of an additional visit—perhaps by an ad hoc group—halfway through the month. The important thing is to establish a pattern. At the moment, that has been done only for the Wednesday meeting. We need to do the same for the visits, so that we know whether they will take place on Mondays and Fridays or on Tuesdays, and whether they will happen every two or three weeks or only in the last week of the month. It does not matter much to me either way, as long as I can plan my diary. We are now starting to plan our diaries for January and February."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 604013,
      "EditedText": "Convener, setting aside two days of a week is not acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 604014,
      "EditedText": "The proposal is to set aside either Monday or Friday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 604016,
      "EditedText": "We can, although this has to be negotiated with the people whom we intend to visit. We have to be reasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 604017,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Federation of Housing Associations, the Chartered Institute of Housing in Scotland and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities would all be able to come to the meeting on 10 November. We could pencil that in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 604018,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we could.I want to return to the drugs inquiry, as there is something that I must bring to the committee's attention. Unfortunately, at our previous meeting, a number of members left before the end of the briefing that SPICe was giving us. We agreed to arrange two seminar days. SPICe has liaised with a number of key organisations and has organised a programme of work for us. The dates that it suggests for the seminars are 15 and 22 November. If we agree today that we want to set aside the Monday or the Friday of the last week of the month for the drugs inquiry, we can ask the staff to come up with a forward programme for December and January.I will sum up. For the next two months, we will spend alternate Wednesdays discussing housing and warrant sales. During the preliminary phase of the drugs inquiry, we will have seminar briefings from SPICe on Monday 15 November and Monday 22 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 604019,
      "EditedText": "Do we know whether those will be in the morning or in the afternoon?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 604020,
      "EditedText": "I think that they will be all day. I have a paper here and can go through the details of that with you.At our next meeting, on 3 November, we will bring forward a paper detailing recommendations for the hearing of evidence in the drugs inquiry. That will probably take December, January and February to complete. We can take into account Bill's recommendation.I appreciate people's commitments and the pressures on their diaries, but we are all in the same position and we really have to make an attempt to manage as best we can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 18291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ID": 18291,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 604030,
      "EditedText": "It is terribly important that the work of this and other committees of the Parliament is not dictated by one newspaper and its gimmicky action against the Parliament— trying to boost its flagging circulation by attacking the Standards Committee for meeting in private. Paragraph 9 of the paper summarises clearly the times when it would be appropriate for us to meet in private. We should not shy away from that. This Parliament is sovereign and we should not be dictated to by the media and journalists. I say that as an ex-journalist.The discussion of draft committee reports in particular—in which I have been involved in select committees in another place—is much freer if the meeting is held in private rather than in public. If other people are present during the discussion of the draft report, the final report may be qualified by them because of something that they heard and have perhaps taken out of context. It makes a lot of sense for that kind of meeting to be held in private.It is absurd, with four parties represented on our committee, to think that some kind of conspiracy is going on. It would be unique in political history, and even more unlikely, if we managed to conspire together and then keep it quiet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 18291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ID": 18291,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 604034,
      "EditedText": "Now, now.I think that the four points in paragraph 9, including\"discussion of the questions to be put to witnesses\"and\"discussion of draft committee reports\"are probably the most appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 18291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ID": 18291,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 604035,
      "EditedText": "When it is appropriate, to cover that kind of ground, we will go into private session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C604040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 18291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ID": 18291,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 604040,
      "EditedText": "The decision must be recorded in the Official Report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18293,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ID": 18293,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 604044,
      "EditedText": "We regularly receive letters. I suggest that they be referred to committee members who have taken on responsibilities that are relevant to the correspondence. We are running out of time now, but we need to have a discussion on the role of reporters. I wanted to make one or two recommendations. For example, reporters should pick up correspondence and make recommendations to the committee.It is important that reporters liaise with representatives of all the political parties prior to committee meetings, because the role of the reporter is not to be the only person working on a topic. In my view, the reporter's role is to be a co-ordinator, which is the role that seems to be taking shape in this committee. If members are taking on the roles of reporter or of convener of the ad hoc groups, I expect them to liaise with representatives of the political parties so that people are involved in decision making. If there is a disagreement, it should come to this committee so that we can deal with it: the matter should not be dealt with by a smaller group. Therefore, if we were going to pass on an item of correspondence which asked us to visit somewhere, or make a decision, or if it raised an urgent issue, the reporter would consider it, liaise on the matter and, when appropriate, bring it to the attention of the committee. That would ensure that we do not get bogged down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ContributionID": 603779,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:02"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603781",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603783",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3353
    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "EditedText": "I begin with action points from our previous meeting. I will work my way through them, and members can indicate to me whether they have comments.I understand, Keith, that the issues that you were due to raise at the meeting of the European Committee on 19 October were not discussed."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603786",
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      "ID": 3353
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 603786,
      "EditedText": "I have asked the clerk of the European Committee to keep in touch with us and let us know, so that we can attend. I tried to e-mail Alex Neil, but I think that he was away in sunnier climes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603793",
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    },
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    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603793,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Does anyone have any points to raise?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603798,
      "EditedText": "Apparently the Local Government Committee wants some input as well."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603799",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 603799,
      "EditedText": "I learned of that yesterday."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603800",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 603800,
      "EditedText": "Roseanna attended the Parliamentary Bureau yesterday to discuss the backlog of bills in the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. It was made clear that the Local Government Committee wants an input. It is all getting quite complex."
    },
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 603805,
      "EditedText": "There is obviously some debate about that. I informed the committee of the most recent advice that I received."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603807",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 603807,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 603811,
      "EditedText": "I have had discussions about that. I have a list of people, and we can talk about it later. We should take a balanced approach and share the responsibility with the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. The social inclusion sub-group will recommend that we tackle the bill in the context of debt and credit, as we would consider those issues anyway.I recommend that we read through the list of agencies that want to submit evidence. I will liaise with the ad hoc social inclusion group, the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the Local Government Committee. I think that it will be possible for us to come to a working agreement among the committees. The Parliamentary Bureau will tell us when we should report to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 603812,
      "EditedText": "We should seek out organisations that we might want to hear from but which have not contacted us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 603813,
      "EditedText": "We have the right to do that. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee has advertised for organisations to give evidence, and the social inclusion group will probably do the same.I will return to the issue of meeting in private. Do we all receive copies of press releases relevant to the work of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603815",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 603815,
      "EditedText": "We will be hoist by our own petard on that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603819",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 603819,
      "EditedText": "I received a letter at my constituency office and forwarded it to Martin Verity to circulate to the committee. Do you have the letter, Martin?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603824",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 603824,
      "EditedText": "You whizzed quickly through bullet point 2 on the Scottish Criminal Record Office checks.  The review committee is being set up, but it would be useful if we had a session on that soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603825",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 603825,
      "EditedText": "I rushed through it because I expect that Karen will tell us when we can have the session. The reporters need to think that through. I ask Karen to remind us about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Inclusion",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 603831,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that you learned a lot."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 603834,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I read The Herald on Monday, so I knew that such points would be raised. If we are asking the ministers to bring issues to the committee and not issue press releases, we feel that members should do the same. I do not think that it is necessarily right for us always to discover our business through the newspapers. I come to Fiona's two specific points. I thought that I had made this clear, and I will do so again. The anti-poverty strategy is part of the social inclusion strategy. We are clear about that and will return to it. We will take a substantial range of evidence on anti-poverty work and will pursue that, but it is in the context of social inclusion. If I say \"social inclusion\", believe me, it does not mean that the anti-poverty strategy is lost—absolutely not. It is part of it. Some of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee agenda will be set for us by what the Executive is doing. We need to keep abreast of that, but we must have a strategic commitment to pursue anti-poverty work and bring that work back, independently, to the committee, so that the committee can take an independent view on what should be done. The commitment is clear and the small, ad hoc group is clear about that. On the Executive's papers for next week and the indicators, and the papers from the Scottish social inclusion network, I am not sure of the views of the SCVO. I have had no submission on its views, and I think that if it is commenting and wishes the committee to deal with that, it must proceed formally. It should not be left to a party political debate. If key organisations in the field wish to make submissions, they must do it appropriately. I am sure that, if the SCVO has points to make about the debate on indicators, it will do so. Undoubtedly, the political points that have been raised will come up in the debate on the action team reports. We have not decided on the people to bring back next week—for general administrative reasons. A general invitation has been issued. I do not have a difficulty with bringing the evaluation team back."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 603836,
      "EditedText": "I agree that it is very important that we do not do that."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603840",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 603840,
      "EditedText": "I will clarify that when we come to timetabling on the agenda. That is how the timetable is framed, but I will have to come to the difference between italicised and non-italicised items in it later."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603841",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 603841,
      "EditedText": "It would help. The idea of having three evidence sessions in one morning is highly unsatisfactory."
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    "ID": "C603843",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
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    },
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    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 603844,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other points?We will now move to hearing evidence from representatives of Scottish Homes. We are five minutes ahead of time, so we shall take a short break and get our guests settled."
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  {
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      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 603849,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. Do other witnesses wish to make any comments?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603851",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 603851,
      "EditedText": "This can be your valedictory appearance.We will move straight on. We hope to make questioning as informal as possible, to allow free-flowing discussion. It is hard to say that in this atmosphere, but we will go for it. Do members want to comment?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603857",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 603857,
      "EditedText": "I am tempted to carry on down that road because it is absorbing. If you think that Home is big with 20,000 to 25,000 houses, what would you think of a single stock transfer involving 75,000 houses in Glasgow?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603859",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 603859,
      "EditedText": "I am worried about the size of those things too. Some of the big English-based housing associations are moving into Dundee. There is a so-called community-based housing association—Sanctuary Housing Association—in Ardler. However, the real power over finance and investment remains with the main board down in England. As in Glasgow, the real decisions about investment and about the extent of repairs and modernisation will remain with the trust board, which is looking after between 70,000 and 90,000 houses. That cannot be what is meant by community-based housing associations."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603867",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 603867,
      "EditedText": "I do not have much to add to that. The ratio has moved from 7:1 to 1:1. There is scope for the ratio to improve. We have been working with banks, insurance companies and so on to consider other methods of financing. Given the strength of the balance sheets of some housing associations, one could imagine private finance coming in on the back of the assets of housing associations, in which case no public money would have to be levered in. As the strength of the sector grows in coming years and the confidence of lenders increases, which is due largely to the registration and supervision arrangements, the leverage should improve."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603869",
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    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall: ",
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      "EditedText": "It was more like £7:£1."
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  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603870",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 603870,
      "EditedText": "The claim has been made to this committee that the new housing partnership money, £278 million, will lever in £2 billion of private investment—no period is given. Is that optimistic or realistic?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 603871,
      "EditedText": "We saw those numbers, but they did not come from us. I will find out where they came from and send a note to the committee."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 603872,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603875",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 603875,
      "EditedText": "Mr McAllion knows my view: it is what it is, and attempts to change it are an academic exercise. For the foreseeable future, we will have to find acceptable ways of increasing the amount of private sector investment in housing in Scotland at a reasonable cost—there is no alternative.The amount that will be levered in will be forecast. I can consult my colleagues in the Scottish Executive, with whom we have a very effective working partnership, and jointly submit a note to the committee giving the rationale for our forecast."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603879",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
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      "EditedText": "We could submit a note on those issues. That is what I meant when I mentioned getting private money in as cheaply as possible. We are trying to find a way, other than debt funding, that gets money into the social rented housing business and locks in lenders for a longer period at lower returns. That is the sort of avenue that we will explore."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603882",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 603882,
      "EditedText": "You will clarify those three innovative approaches mentioned on page 15 in a written submission to the committee?"
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 603885,
      "EditedText": "We are interested in understanding how this committee will function in relation to Scottish Homes. It should be a hugely useful avenue. For many reasons, housing has slipped down the political agenda The budget allocated out of the public purse to housing has halved over the past 10 to 15 years. We believe that we will solve many of the problems that I listed at the beginning—health problems and many other social problems—not by throwing more money at bad health and bad attitudes but by dealing with the fundamentals. It is important to raise social inclusion and housing up the political agenda. The focus that a committee such as this can bring to bear is important.We have regular reviews of our performance with the minister. You are right: a fundamental review takes place every five years. We have a stringent performance agreement, which you will find at the back of the paper we distributed to members, that is unique in a public sector organisation. We are happy to make that public and available. We are interested to know how dialogue will be conducted and in our relationship with this committee, as that is one way in which the sort of issues that we are debating can be raised in public, in the mind's eye and the political view."
    },
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    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "EditedText": "You can come to listen to us in the public gallery."
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  {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 603888,
      "EditedText": "In the paper that you have distributed to committee members, you refer to the Scottish housing advisory panel that is proposed in the green paper. You obviously want to be involved with that. What strikes me about the Executive's proposal is that it is similar to how things were under the old Westminster system for the control of Scottish Homes: deliberations will take place behind ministerial doors. Is there an argument for saying that the Scottish housing advisory panel should advise the Parliament rather than the Executive, or that it should advise both at the same time? Should it report to this committee, rather than to the Executive alone, so that the whole debate on housing policy in Scotland will be out in the open and not behind ministerial doors?"
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  {
    "ID": "C603902",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 603902,
      "EditedText": "I know that you would separate these points, Fiona, but access to private finance is only one reason for stock transfers. Another and perhaps more important reason is to create a different structure for social inclusion."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is very possible. Social inclusion—building the capacity or confidence of people to take charge of their lives—is a long and slow process. We have created 260 management structures, which has taken many years, so we fully recognise that this is not an easy or quick thing to do and that, if we are not careful, it could become a shambles. Your question follows on from the point that Bill Aitken was trying to make; what can the existing structure absorb? There are a range of housing associations with 200 or 300 houses. Will they be able to grow to have 1,000 or 2,000 houses, with the existing management structure growing and developing with them? Such capacity is hugely important. Under current regulation and monitoring processes, Scottish Homes is probably the only organisation that could reasonably claim to have, and to be able fairly quickly to develop, capacity to make all that happen. I would argue that social inclusion is a more important argument for stock transfer than private finance is. Let us face it—we have been putting up houses for many years and knocking them down really quite quickly, because we did not get it right. That is one reason why the taxpayer has lost interest in putting money into housing and why housing is not a big issue in elections. Another argument is how to bring communities, whether rural or peripheral, back into the system. You quite properly raise the case of Dumfries and Galloway. We are not at all sure how, in remote areas where the population is spread out, to create structures that relate to the locality."
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  {
    "ID": "C603907",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
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      "EditedText": "As we said in our response to the green paper, the system is not broke, so why mend it? We are very good at that kind of management. We are one of the few organisations that practises empowerment. There are people in our organisation who can commit Scottish Homes to £1 million or £2 million of investment, in conjunction with the local authority, a builder, a housing association, the local enterprise company or whoever; they make those decisions at their level, without coming to me and certainly without coming near our board, who are the so-called \"democratic deficit, personification of\". Our people on the ground make those decisions in a context. They are confident about their decisions, they know that they are not going to get shot down and they do not make mistakes—touch wood. We are audited every year by the National Audit Office. We have the people to do the job; we have the capacity to do it and the structures to do it.I am not attacking local government—I keep being misrepresented on that. I have lived in the public sector; I am not dogmatic about the public sector, but I believe in it. As has been said, councils are at the heart of the matter. Below the level of this Parliament, councils contain the only people with democratic legitimacy. They also have a unique range of statutory powers and duties. The important question is this: as money is being invested at a community level to deliver whatever the Government of the day says are the social strategies and priorities, will that money be better spent through an agency such as ours or through being given to 32 councils? I think that my case rests."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
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      "EditedText": "Councils have to want the 60 per cent of the 262 housing associations that have fewer than 250 houses to grow if that is to happen. There are just over 600,000 council houses in Scotland. My arithmetic is not good, but I think that 600,000 divided by 250 is 2,400. In crude terms, many of the associations that have fewer than 250 properties could be brought up to a significant size of 2,000 or 3,000 units. A 3,000 unit association would probably have an annual rental income of between £3.5 million and £4 million and would employ between 45 and 60 people. In Scotland, not many small businesses that employ only 50 folk turn over that much money a year. A significant economic force could be developed.As John Ward said, we transferred 40,000 properties to housing associations in Dumbarton. When we did so, we also transferred our staff, as we wanted to look after them—anyone who bid for our houses had to employ our staff and sign up to the existing terms and conditions. The key thing is to take as long as the tenants want to take before they are prepared to vote on the proposition. The backcloth to this is public accountability: we must ensure that the taxpayers' interests are being protected."
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  {
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
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      "EditedText": "If the owners of the houses wanted to do that and went through a process that ensured that the tenants felt safe in voting for it, it could be done. If it is not done, what will be done? I do not believe that the small associations will be able to increase their size through development funding and it is inconceivable that they would be allowed to build new properties. The greatest number of new house approvals that we ever produced in one year was 9,000. That is a drop in the ocean compared with the proposition that we are making today. It is not easy to come up with an alternative to empowering communities."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
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      "EditedText": "If the associations are happy with the move—they are democratic organisations and have to vote on things—there is potential for growth."
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    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603914",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
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      "EditedText": "The corollary is that it takes an awful lot longer to develop a new body from scratch."
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    "ID": "C603920",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 603920,
      "EditedText": "To remove any doubt, I should reiterate that the prerequisite for any transfer is that the tenants have to vote for it. If someone does not remove the debt from councils that are in debt, no one will lend those councils money. Those are the key conditions for transfers, if the owners of the houses—be it Scottish Homes or the council—want the transfers to happen. However, the overwhelming argument for the transfers is not the need for investment in housing, which is beyond debate, but the potential to give communities real power and responsibility over a crucial aspect of their lives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 603924,
      "EditedText": "What is wrong with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 603929,
      "EditedText": "Without being impertinent, I would like to make a suggestion. Instead of us being here—and I am glad that we have the opportunity—you should invite some association members. There are associations that have been around for 20 or 25 years. Some of the more recent ones have been created by transfers from councils. Although that was done differently and we had to give a housing association grant to effect it, about 16,000 council houses have been transferred into voluntary ownership in Scotland—in Glasgow, Motherwell, Dundee and elsewhere. Get some of those people along who are now managing stock that we owned, and ask them what they think.As far as I am concerned, the ability of—to risk being pejorative—ordinary folk to take responsibility and decisions and to behave well is grossly underrated by most people in positions of power. Folk are far more able than they believe they are. By giving people support, training and education—and, critically, giving them power when they feel comfortable with it—community-based associations will take off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 603931,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned Abbeyfield, and there are other specialised associations. They all perform particular roles and they are very useful. What we want, however, when we talk about inclusion, is to draw as many people as possible into the mainstream. Many housing associations have programmes that try to include people who are being rehabilitated, or coming out of care in the community. The problem—and Peter has referred to it many times—is the reaction of other tenants. The process is not so much that you need to create a capability to include, it is that you need an acceptance from people round about that they want to and that they will integrate.I have been at events where I have been asked not to mention that there are some care in the community houses, because people want us to help house values and so on. The capability of a community is important when it takes charge and decides that it is going to make such integration happen. It will only happen when the people who live there make the decision; we cannot impose it. Inclusion is about getting things started and then supporting them. If we impose inclusion, housing associations will end up as enclaves.We should avoid enclaves or ghettoes wherever we can. We should try to draw in as many people as possible. It comes back to the community and its confidence to do such things. Having said that, we will always have specialist housing associations, because some people will always need special care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 603932,
      "EditedText": "The other dimension is that national organisations such as Hanover, Ark, Bield and Cairn are specialists in providing such accommodation. We are always interested in people who can do the best job—provide the best quality for the least cost. It does not make much sense to have a community-based, small association take on the building, running and social work of a specialised facility. When I was involved in prisons, one of the things to which we objected was people being described as \"excluded from society\", when they were put in jail. They were not excluded: they were in jail, but they were still part of society. When we tried to find housing for them when they came out of jail, we experienced the NIMBY problem.I believe that community-based housing associations can decide that someone belongs to the community and that, although a person has a problem, the community wants to help them. They do it with minimal fuss and they do it very well. That is because the people involved recognise themselves as part of the community. They are prepared to take on some of the responsibility that goes with that; it is a two-way thing. The potential is there to build the attitude of community-based associations so that they agree to take people back in, with certain conditions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 603933,
      "EditedText": "Do specialised housing associations have more difficulty in bringing in private money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 603939,
      "EditedText": "In regulating housing associations, we have a common set of standards. Earlier, John mentioned that we had not had a failure of any of our housing associations. We have early warning mechanisms, which allow us to appoint members to management committees and so on. We have examined some of the research that has been done over the past few years, and there is no correlation between size or location and the effectiveness of management or the propensity to fail financially. All types of association are equally affected. There is no hard-and-fast evidence to suggest that a smaller association that is operating in a rural context is any worse off than a larger organisation that is working in an urban set-up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 603955,
      "EditedText": "If you can give us that, we would be very grateful."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 603956,
      "EditedText": "In response to that and Fiona's points, financing is important, and we can clearly examine it. The end point that we are trying to get to, however, is not to try to solve the odd quarter-point or half-point difference in interest rates; it is to arrive at a social inclusion arrangement that will save the vast amounts of money that we are pouring down the drain today on failure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18287,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 603818,
      "EditedText": "I understand that four of the social inclusion network reports are due for press release next week. It is essential that the committee receives them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:47.390724+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Inclusion",
      "HeadingID": 18288,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 105.0,
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      "ID": 18288,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 603835,
      "EditedText": "I want to make it clear that concerns were raised in an SCVO publication. I have not spoken to its members about their views, but the evaluation part of the strategy is key. If we are examining the task force, the evaluation part must be put under scrutiny. I do not think that we can put words in other organisations' mouths."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:47.390724+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Inclusion",
      "HeadingID": 18288,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18288,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 603833,
      "EditedText": "I have two points. First, I appreciate that this is a long-term project. I think that we all acknowledged that when we included it as a main priority. As we said previously, we are trying to consider it in the context of a national anti-poverty strategy. I would be a bit concerned if that were to be left out. It would be reassuring if we could get some recommendations from you, convener, on a timetable for developing the strategy. My second point is on the action team reports. I read with some concern from the SCVO publications about how the Executive is viewing the social inclusion indicators, and about the Executive not being able to set its own indicators and terms of reference. I would argue strongly that we as a committee must examine that. Looking at the evaluation task force report, I think that we have an opportunity to address that important issue next week. If we are to have a Scottish anti-poverty strategy, the evaluation role of the task force is key, and we should hear from it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:47.390724+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 603895,
      "EditedText": "Two areas in which we are interested are finance and social inclusion. We agree that private finance has great potential in the public sector but—I understand that we will receive papers on this, but I ask for clarification—it does not necessarily have to be securitised by a transfer of assets. Are there opportunities and innovative ideas other than stock transfer whereby private finance could be accessed?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18289,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 603903,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of questions on that. Peter mentioned size and geographical spread. John, what is your view on, for example, the proposed transfer in Dumfries and Galloway? How will it promote social inclusion? Your introduction and your paper stress the social inclusion agenda. Do you see Scottish Homes developing as a social inclusion agency for Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:47.390724+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ID": 18289,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 603906,
      "EditedText": "Do you see your role as one of managing the funding of that community-type development at a regional level? I notice in your paper that you are concerned about that being done at a council level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:47.390724+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 603780,
      "EditedText": "As usual, I start by welcoming everyone to the meeting. I want to give a particular welcome to members of the public, who are here showing an interest in the committee. Today we have a substantial agenda, so I will push on and take points as appropriate.Before we move on to action points from our previous meeting, I have a point of clarification. At an earlier meeting, we took a decision that we would begin by dealing with housekeeping issues, and that that would be done in private. At the end of our previous meeting, I indicated that, given wider issues that are current, we needed some clarification of private, housekeeping issues. That is on the agenda for discussion today, and we will return to it. However, I think that it is appropriate that we should hold this meeting in public. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 603782,
      "EditedText": "We will clarify the other points later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 603785,
      "EditedText": "Will you attend the meeting when the matter is addressed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 603787,
      "EditedText": "No, I was not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 603788,
      "EditedText": "Set the record straight, Alex.May I assume that the clerks will ensure that you are properly informed of those meetings and that you will inform us when they are to take place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 603789,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 603790,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 603792,
      "EditedText": "I was appointed to the role of reporter only at the previous meeting, and we did not clarify my role and responsibilities. I do not want to go off and do my own thing without consulting committee members.During the recess, I attended a Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations conference and spoke about the work of the committee. I had a follow-up meeting with the SCVO, and it has given us permission to access its database of community groups and organisations. I am happy to meet some of the key players in the voluntary sector, but I am keen that we meet many smaller community groups as well. There is no way that any of us has the time to meet them all individually, so I suggest that over the next week to 10 days I draft a letter and questionnaire to be sent out to organisations across Scotland. Before the letter is sent out, I will bring it to the committee for members' comments. The questionnaire will allow us to draw up our agenda on matters relating to the voluntary sector. The SCVO made a number of suggestions about how we should take forward the agenda, but to do it properly, we need to consult the entire voluntary sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 603794,
      "EditedText": "I do not wish to prolong discussion of the matter, but how will the system of reporters work? How structured will the system be? I know that other committees have set up formal sub-working groups, chaired by reporters. That is the way in which reporters are keeping in touch with committee members. How will we operate? Do we have any clear guidelines?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 603795,
      "EditedText": "No, we do not. I do not know whether the Parliament has clear guidelines. The guidelines are evolving through the work of the committees. I prefer that, so that the role of reporters fits our needs, rather than vice versa.It was agreed previously that at the end of each committee meeting I would summarise the work that we were doing. I was going to make one or two points about our expectations of what reporters will do. That does not prevent us from addressing the issue at various times, for example, if we do not feel that the work is appropriate, or if we wish to change the role or the person, but our discussions now are simply to get us started. A process of regular reports and consultation with all members of the committee seems to be the working method towards which we are feeling our way. My view is not to take firm decisions until we are more confident about what we expect of reporters. We will return to the issue when I summarise our plans and when we are more sure of our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 603796,
      "EditedText": "An outstanding action item from a previous meeting was to find out when the report on charity reform by the University of Abertay, Dundee would be available. It is a central issue for all voluntary organisations, so Karen Whitefield and the clerks should try to find out when the report will be available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 603801,
      "EditedText": "I was told only two hours before the meeting of the Parliamentary Bureau that the matter would be raised. I have registered that we need to have more warning in future. It is likely that we will negotiate with the convener of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and will share evidence equally with that committee.  Many organisations want to be heard, and this committee is sympathetic to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 603804,
      "EditedText": "Essentially, it is the Executive's bills that must be progressed within the three-month period. As I understand it, that is because they require a financial memorandum. Contrary to the advice that the sponsors of the bill were given, private bills, which, by definition, have no financial implications for the public purse, do not require a financial memorandum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18287,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 603806,
      "EditedText": "The goalposts are portable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
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      "ID": 18287,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 603808,
      "EditedText": "I will attend the next meeting of the Parliamentary Bureau to make sure that we are clear about the timetable."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 603814,
      "EditedText": "There has been a plethora in the past few days."
    },
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  {
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    "Meeting": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603817,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603821",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 603821,
      "EditedText": "Have we had anything on the domestic violence announcement that was made earlier this week?"
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  {
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      "ContributionID": 603827,
      "EditedText": "May I check that and get back to you?"
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 603829,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603830",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Inclusion",
      "HeadingID": 18288,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 603830,
      "EditedText": "The item on social inclusion concerns a report from a recent meeting. We have had a couple of meetings, which have been fairly wide-ranging. May I move to our recommendations? If members wish to raise other issues, they are free to do so. We have received a great deal of material, which I believe has been circulated to all MSPs. I would like officially to thank the staff of the Scottish Parliament information centre for the high quality of the work that they have produced for us. We are continuing with our work; members of the committee often need material on conferences and debates. It is an important part of our work to keep an eye on that brief and to look at the experience of other countries. Social inclusion is an important element of the work of the committee. Our view is that it is long term; there is no need to rush at it immediately, given the pressure with regard to any future legislation on housing policy. We also need to have the drugs inquiry. However, we want to embed social inclusion into the long-term work of the committee. That does not mean that we will not pay attention to it—big issues will come to our notice, which will need to be dealt with. One of those issues is the publication of the social action team reports next week. We need to check the publicity surrounding that. Because of that, we will recommend that at next week's meeting we hear some of the reports of the action teams, to ensure that we are still keeping an eye on the brief and that it does not get lost.There are several other issues, such as the publication of \"New Life for Urban Scotland\". I had the pleasure of listening to Malcolm Rifkind's lecture the other day."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603842",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "EditedText": "I will clarify that with you later, but that is the recommendation of our group. I think that it is our view that the evaluation group be included. Is that agreed?"
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603847",
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    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 603847,
      "EditedText": "We are pleased to welcome Scottish Homes, in the persons of John Ward, Peter McKinlay and Hugh Hall. Thank you for accepting our invitation to come before the committee. You are very welcome. I am sure that you will have seen from the committee's minutes the strong interest that we have in housing issues and in Scottish Homes. Thank you for the paperwork that you submitted to us. People found it interesting, substantial and instructive.Many members have questions to ask, but first I hand over to you, John, to give us an introduction."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
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      "EditedText": "The exact number of associations is 262. I will ask Hugh Hall to respond to your question in more detail, but I should make clear that there are two different types of housing association: community-based associations, which tend to be small and are anchored in the communities they serve; and larger associations, which operate nationally and may be specialised. Abbeyfield, for example, caters for older people, while others serve care-in-the-community groups. Hugh may be able to give you the numbers."
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  {
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      "EditedText": "I am sure that we will return to that."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
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      "EditedText": "We have been involved in the discussions that have led up to this. As I understand the present position, the council and the Executive have concluded that the best way of handling the issue of transferring Glasgow's houses is to do it as a two-stage exercise. First, there would be a ballot of the 95,000 or so households on entering a community housing trust that would have a board on which around 30 community representatives would sit with council representatives. Then there would be a process of balloting individual areas in the city that might constitute community-controlled housing organisations within the context of the housing trust. Given what I have just said in answer to Bill Aitken's question, I would be rather concerned if a community were to be seen as 70,000 or 90,000 people."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603860,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, Home, Sanctuary and others have built up a constitutional arrangement that gives a significant amount of decision-making power to organisations running groups of their houses. For example, Home bought some Ministry of Defence houses in Rosyth. The first we knew about it was when Home told us that it had bought them, but it invested a substantial amount of money in those houses. John and I paid a visit there and the tenants were very content with the way in which the houses were being managed. There are structures that can be put in place. However, the thing that characterises most individuals and organisations with power is, in my view, a profound disinclination to give it up. I have no doubt that, in making the concept of a community-empowered anything—a housing association or anything else—work, the key issue is the degree of power it has to determine how money is spent."
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  {
    "ID": "C603861",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
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      "EditedText": "The issue of managing houses well is important. The issue of including people is different. Peter and I have had many discussions with the chairman and chief executive of Home to ensure that the community involvement is real. It is easy to go through a bit of shadow boxing where there appears to be involvement. That is where Hugh's regulation and monitoring system comes into play. I spent yesterday with groups of housing associations in Glasgow talking about tenant involvement and community involvement. It is a hard job that involves people close to the community who are trusted to draw in that involvement. You are right to say that it will not happen from far away. The two structures are not necessarily contradictory, but we have to work hard to make them mesh."
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  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603862",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
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      "EditedText": "So they are not contradictory, but they have to be meaningful?"
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  {
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 603863,
      "EditedText": "They have to be meaningful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 603864,
      "EditedText": "The question that I originally meant to ask before I was set off course chasing another hare was about leverage and about your claim that, over the past 10 years, Scottish Homes has levered in about £1 of private money for every pound of public money spent. Huge claims have been made for the new housing partnerships—that £278 million will generate £2 billion of private investment. I want to explore those claims a bit further. In the bigger paper you sent us, you claim that, over 10 years, you levered in £1 billion of private finance. In the smaller paper you say that the ratio of public to private finance is about pound for pound. However, the paper that you gave the select committee in the House of Commons a couple of years ago said that you had spent £3 billion of public resources to lever in £1 billion of private investment. There seems to be a contradiction between what you told the House of Commons and what you are telling the Scottish Parliament. Will you expand on that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603865",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 603865,
      "EditedText": "The pound for pound ratio is what is happening as of this year. We had a hell of a job building up the private finance. When it started, the banks did not feel that social housing was something into which they wanted to put money, and pension funds and so on were very reluctant. Now they are competing to get the business.The figure of £1 billion is from a couple of years ago. The current total is £1.3 billion. As Hugh is the expert on private finance, he may wish to comment more specifically on the numbers."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 603876,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, the preferred avenue to get private sector investment into housing is to transfer stock to alternative landlords. On page 15 of the memorandum you gave the committee, you mention other innovative approaches to raise investment, such as \"securitisation; formation of syndicate purchase; and special purpose vehicles.\"I do not know much about those and I suspect that most other members of the committee will not, either."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603877",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
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      "EditedText": "I am glad you admitted that, John. I wondered whether it was just me. Will Mr Hall explain them to us?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603880",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall: ",
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      "EditedText": "I compare the current position in private finance with what it was like seven or eight years ago when colleagues had great difficulty persuading the banks to get involved at all, simply for debt finance and normal mortgage finance. Now, the banks and building societies are comfortable with that method of financing. The result of that is that we have long queues of lenders who want to lend at very good margins. It is time for a step change. Now that the funders are comfortable with debt financing, perhaps we need to stretch it a bit more and consider those innovative approaches."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 603884,
      "EditedText": "I have one other line of inquiry. You mentioned existing lines of accountability for Scottish Homes, which are essentially through the minister. There is the potential for more extensive scrutiny now that there is a Scottish Parliament. Could you develop on that point? I was thinking, for example, that at the moment the minister conducts a formal review of Scottish Homes every five years. Could that role be taken over by this committee, or the Parliament?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603889",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 603889,
      "EditedText": "We would welcome the widest debate, but we are not sure how the advisory panel will work."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603891",
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 603891,
      "EditedText": "Those are decisions that the Executive will make in due course."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 603893,
      "EditedText": "I am old enough to remember Barry Cullingworth and the Scottish Housing Advisory Committee of the 1960s and 1970s. That committee had a similar function to the one that is being proposed for the new Scottish housing advisory panel. In that sense, the wheel is turning full circle, as it often does. The arrangements under which the panel will function will be a matter for the Executive to determine."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
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      "EditedText": "I am sure that we will return to that debate. Fiona Hyslop is keen to ask a question."
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  {
    "ID": "C603901",
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    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
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      "EditedText": "Not currently, but we are considering other ways in which to bring that about. Currently, if one wants to access private finance, one has to do it via a stock transfer. There is no other way. It is not possible to consider the potential of the private finance initiative, as PFI has not been embraced by local authorities in Scotland. That brings with it a host of other issues. The other question, even in the case of a securitisation that does not require the transfer of the asset from the public sector balance sheet, is whether there is still a requirement to go through the process of a tenant ballot, as we would still be dealing with the properties that are used by the tenants. All that is being examined, but the jury is out on whether it is doable."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
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      "EditedText": "I want to mention Albyn Housing Society, based in Invergordon. Through transfers, development and so on, it now has more than 2,000 houses, scattered all over the Highland Council area. The society works satisfactorily. By that, I mean that the tenants are, by and large, satisfied with the service that they receive and with the rents that are charged. The situation is not the same in Dumfries and Galloway, however, where the tenants will decide in a ballot whether they want to go for this option.Until 1974, there were 232 statutory housing authorities in Scotland. Given the Stewartry, and the 13,000 houses in Castle Douglas, Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbright, Stranraer or wherever, I feel that, with different constitutional arrangements, the wheel may again come full circle. I entirely agree that our strategy is not about houses; it is about people living in communities. Regardless of the tenure, or whether people are owner-occupiers or tenants of one landlord or another, the strategy is about communities. Giving communities more control—I am talking not about merely involving them, having them participate or consulting them, but about giving them control—does two things: it lets the people living in those communities take the decisions that they want and it gives them the money to make things happen. The people then have responsibility. If anything goes wrong—whether there is a neighbour from hell, a repair is not done or the rent is too high—the means of changing that are in the people's hands. That is a huge benefit.We all talk about community capacity, improvement, self-esteem and so on, but people are given self-esteem through having some power. Many individuals, households and communities feel powerless. The only really effective measure to give people power is—next to giving them a job—to give them control of their homes, their living environment and their communities.Nearly 3,000 volunteers—unpaid individuals—throughout Scotland are managing about 17 per cent of the country's housing stock. By all our measures of checking whether they are doing that well or badly, they are doing exceedingly well, so I would like the system to be extended."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603915",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
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      "EditedText": "Absolutely. There are two aspects to this issue. The first centres on the management capability, which is the basis on which I answered your question. The second is—as I said to John McAllion—to grow the community capacity. The continuing challenge is to form committees and to find people for those committees."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603922",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 603922,
      "EditedText": "Our power comes from regulation and monitoring. We have been told by housing associations that have begun to attract resources from the European social fund and the European regional development fund that it would help enormously if we were to regulate and monitor their other activities, which would give them great credibility with banks and others. There is no doubt that housing associations that achieve a B or A rating are much more successful at putting together finance packages than others are. Although we are trying to attract other investors, many of the finance possibilities come from abroad. I believe that a feeling of professionalism within an organisation is important—I make that an argument for Scottish Homes, for example, which is a professional organisation. However, housing associations have to be professional organisations in which people have faith. The leverage rate can be greatly affected by the size of a development. If a housing project includes roads and other developments, the planning gain is larger. Where we are able to tackle those larger schemes, such as the foreshore in Edinburgh, it is possible to have much lower leverage rates. Perhaps that is a partial answer to the question that John McAllion posed earlier, although I have no idea how those leverage rates were calculated. However, the more such projects are undertaken, the more credibility is needed, as people are putting up a lot more of their personal money and will want greater assurance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 603923,
      "EditedText": "I wish to offer an observation on the political controversy that arose when Scottish Homes was founded and from which we continue to suffer. At the time, I was accused publicly of being a lackey of a Thatcherite Government—Laughter."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603925",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3353
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      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 603925,
      "EditedText": "Bill is jealous."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 603926,
      "EditedText": "People said that I was intent on privatising public sector housing by the back door. That was what was said, although I denied the accusation, of course. We were seen as an instrument of a Government that saw privatisation as an end in itself; I am not saying that that is what the Government believed, but that was the perception. If one believed that public sector activity would be better if it was carried out by the private sector, but one could not privatise it, the business would be contracted out. If that could not be done, one would make it a quango; if that could not be done, one would make it an agency; and if one could not do that, one would be left with, by definition, a boring, inefficient, awful, old Government department. While I could not possibly comment on that perception, it was one from which we suffered. However, in Scottish Homes, both then and now, we held the view that privatisation was not an end in itself—it was the key means to achieving the ends of social inclusion and community empowerment that we have been discussing. Politically, we still have an enormous problem—we are seen as predatory and as a competitor. Perhaps that is to overstate the case; at grass-roots level, my colleagues have an extremely good working relationship with the vast majority of the people with whom they deal. However, that huge political issue remains, which someone needs to unpick."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 603928,
      "EditedText": "I do not think, Margaret, that one will ever reach nirvana to find that it is all happening. There will always be shades of grey—good, quite good and so on—and some organisations that do not perform well.It is that awful term \"community capacity\". Largely, the good associations are those where we are successful in getting sufficient numbers of local people to participate. The opposite of exclusion is when people join—that is inclusion. As I have said several times, that is a struggle and we have to work at it all the time. If we were to see a housing association that is not quite making it, without any hesitation we would use powers under section 17 of the Housing Act 1985 to bring in people from better housing associations to help it to improve.I have done a lot of work in Easterhouse, and it is easy to go in in your blue suit and tell people what to do. If a group of people can build confidence in themselves, what they need is support, not lecturing. Once the structure is there, you have the capacity—that awful term—to support people. Our job is to provide that support, with section 17 or with money or any other help that is needed. We try to come in behind associations and help the inclusion of people, rather than talking to them about what inclusion is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 603930,
      "EditedText": "The discussion so far has concentrated largely on community-based housing associations. In your opening remarks you drew the distinction between community-based and specialised, mentioning Abbeyfield as one good example. How do you see the potential for growth in that area of specialised housing associations? There are a number that work specifically with the elderly or the disabled and so on.That is probably an area where more can be done by specialised housing associations to involve those currently excluded from society. A particular interest of mine is the problem of drugs misuse. Once addicts have been through treatment and rehab and are in recovery, the last thing that they need is to go back to the places where perhaps they dealt and where certainly they used. The best thing would be for them to go into halfway houses. There is potential for the housing association movement to get involved in the provision of halfway houses, which are key for social inclusion. I wonder what your views are on the development of that sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 603934,
      "EditedText": "No. Most such associations are a lot bigger. The biggest such association in Scotland is Bield, which has about 4,000 houses. I cannot remember its turnover, but it is much bigger than the vast majority of community-based associations. All the specialist associations are financially solvent."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 603935,
      "EditedText": "I want to move on to my second point, which relates to housing associations that operate in rural areas and the particular difficulties that they face. Do they have more trouble levering in public money? They have specific issues, which you have already touched on, in terms of the dispersal of their stock and management and so on. Does that mean that they are more difficult to operate and that they grow at a slower rate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 603940,
      "EditedText": "I was thinking of north Tayside rather than Fife.You have not touched on my final point, which concerns your relationship with local authorities. There has been a sea change in my lifetime—I am now 50—away from local authorities being the main providers of housing. How do you relate to the local authorities?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 603946,
      "EditedText": "Can I just come in on this?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 603947,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but I have to stick to the stated order of speakers, as I am concerned about the time. I will take you later."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 603948,
      "EditedText": "Can I bring the discussion back to finance and investment and link that to regeneration? One of John Ward's more significant points was that, in real terms, the overall level of public investment in housing in Scotland has halved in recent years. If public investment in housing had maintained its real level, not only would there be about double the amount spent on public housing, but there would be about 20,000 additional jobs in Scotland.If public investment in real terms were at the level it was at a few years ago, and if it achieved the investment leverage figures that you achieve, we could create about 40,000 new jobs. That would go much further towards community regeneration and getting people out of social exclusion than all those structural arrangements. That issue has to be addressed.A specific short-term issue in investment is the emphasis on leverage. Clearly, there is pressure to lever funds on all organisations—Scottish Enterprise, Scottish Homes, and others. Has Scottish Homes done an analysis of the cost of traditional public sector funding compared to the cost of private sector funding over the lifetime of the funding? If so, what is the cost differential?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 603950,
      "EditedText": "Certainly, with the £12 billion surplus it is not such a big issue.It would be useful if Scottish Homes were prepared to undertake such an analysis and furnish the committee with the results. This is not just about leverage; it is about the long-term impact of borrowing dearer money. Banks and other financial institutions lend money on the basis that they will get a reasonable return, that they will make a profit. If they do that and there remains a significant differential in the cost of funding over 20, 30, 40, or 50 years, there are only two ways in which the additional cost can be recouped: higher rental income or increased public subsidy. Increased rental income might make more people socially excluded. If increased public subsidy will be necessary, should we not opt for it in the first place so that we can get a more substantial return for the public sector in the long term? Would it be possible for Scottish Homes to provide us with that comparative analysis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
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      "EditedText": "Can I undertake to try to do that and come back to you? If we can, we will. It seems to me—I am no economist, and you are, Alex, so I am not taking you on—that there is no such thing as pure public money. The Treasury goes through the market to get money."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603952",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 603952,
      "EditedText": "Precisely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 603958,
      "EditedText": "The two are not mutually exclusive; however, they can be handled separately. Our ultimate objective and strategy is aimed at sustainable communities. As it happens, there are financial arrangements. Our objective is not leverage; it is to achieve sustainable communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 603959,
      "EditedText": "I have to hurry people now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 603960,
      "EditedText": "Some other people had a lot of time.One of the criticisms of the private finance initiative—this is not a question of PFI, and I am not making a direct comparison with it—is that, even on the best funded and most efficiently funded projects, the additional cost of the private finance over the period of the project is anything from 50 per cent to 100 per cent greater than what it would be under the traditional method. Clearly, that has a knock-on effect on the public sector in later years. It is robbing Peter to pay Paul. We are not talking about PFI, but we have not seen a comparative analysis of the funding provided through Scottish Homes, which I think would be extremely useful.Two thirds of all expenditure on housing in Scotland is through housing benefit, which is not a direct responsibility of Scottish Homes. However, the reform of housing benefit, which is currently on the agenda, will potentially have a major impact on the achievement of your corporate objectives, be it in relation to quality or, in particular, in relation to social inclusion and exclusion. Do you have or intend to submit any evidence or make any representations to the Government—primarily the UK Government in this case—on what you would consider the priorities for housing benefit reform?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 603961,
      "EditedText": "That is one of the areas where we have made some progress in the past eight years. When I joined Scottish Homes eight years ago, we had sponsored some research by the University of Glasgow into housing benefit. The Administration at the time told us to stop it, because not only was it none of our business, but it was no business of the Secretary of State for Scotland. Housing benefit was a matter for the Secretary of State for Social Security.We have come a considerable distance since then. Now, we are engaged with colleagues in the Scottish Executive, who in turn are engaged with people in the Department for Social Security. There are on-going discussions about the implications of changing housing benefit. A policy exchange has begun, to which we can contribute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 603964,
      "EditedText": "As I said, we are engaged in initial discussions with the Scottish Executive and DSS officials. The big practical issue is that, as you said, something like two thirds of all tenants in public sector houses—owned by Scottish Homes and the local authorities—are on housing benefit. When we tried to persuade the banks and building societies to invest in stock transfer, they saw some of the areas involved and said that they would not touch them with a bargepole. We said to them that they were not investing in bricks and mortar—even if the houses were pretty crap it would be reflected in the valuation—but in the cash flow. Being good bankers, their next question was \"What if the Government cuts housing benefit?\" My answer was that the Government could not afford to cut housing benefit significantly, because if it did, it would make every social landlord bankrupt overnight. If there was a significant cut in housing benefit, people could not afford to run the business.The Government must stop the fraud—nobody would disagree with that; it must reduce the fraud if it can—and refocus housing benefit, so that it has a purpose. At the moment, all housing benefit does is to enable people, whether in the public or the private sector, to pay rent. It does not even let them get their hands on the money. People cannot exercise any choice and must take what they are given. Mr Darling's department, along with the Treasury, the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions and our colleagues in the Scottish Executive, is examining how to refocus that huge amount of money, so that it has some kind of purposeful end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 603965,
      "EditedText": "We will return to housing benefit. This is not personal, Karen, but could you ask all your questions at once? One speaker only should respond, as we must try to finish. We have other business to get through."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 603966,
      "EditedText": "I welcome your comments about the size and geographical spread of housing associations and about putting the emphasis on community empowerment and control. That context is important to my question. In particular, I want to pick up on the claim that no housing association has ever failed. I want to raise the example of GAP Housing Association, a locally based housing association that has grown rapidly and has a wide geographical spread throughout the west of Scotland. I know that it is a good landlord to some of its tenants, but it has failed and continues to fail many people in my constituency and in other parts of Lanarkshire, Dunbartonshire and Ayrshire. At the moment, the association is beginning a process of transfer of engagements. I do not believe that the transfer would have been undertaken if the association had not encountered problems. How much influence will Scottish Homes have in the transfer of engagements process during the next 12 months? Can Scottish Homes ensure that the new housing association that is formed by the merger will take account of geographical spread, size and, most important, community empowerment and control?You mentioned section 17 appointees. There have been numerous section 17 appointees on the board of GAP—some of them very good. There is a real determination to make things work. However, I would like to know whether Scottish Homes believes that intervening at an early stage is sufficient to ensure that housing associations will not, in future, experience the difficulties that GAP has experienced. I would like to hear your comments on that. They might be quite detailed, so you might want to get back to me on some of the specifics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 603967,
      "EditedText": "I ask for a response to that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 603969,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that you will regroup the associations geographically and that, within that larger housing association, small community groups will take account of individual areas, such as Lanarkshire, and their specific problems, rather than consider problems in other areas—such as, in that instance, Dunbartonshire and Ayrshire?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 603971,
      "EditedText": "I ask specifically about the future role of Scottish Homes, in light of the remark that you made earlier about its possible mutation into a social inclusion agency. Would that mean that Scottish Homes would become effectively a housing investment broker for the transferred stock to the new housing partnerships? Would your organisation distribute new housing partnership grants? More important, what plans do you have for the residual stock that Scottish Homes has? You must do something with that by 2001. Is there any indication of when Scottish Homes will appoint a new chief executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 603973,
      "EditedText": "We have announced that, on 1 April 2001, Scottish Homes will cease to be a landlord. If we have any houses left—and we hope that all our tenants will have transferred to an alternative landlord of their choice—around September next year, the board will have to initiate a process for factoring whatever residual stock we might have to alternative landlords and consulting the tenants. By 2001, we will not be managing any houses, but we might own some until somebody takes them away from us. That is the plan for the residual stock."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 603974,
      "EditedText": "The other two questions are linked. The board took the view that we cannot put out a specification for a new chief executive without being able to write that specification accurately. The original assumption was that we would start the hiring process last May. Clearly, that was under a previous regime. Currently, the consultation process on social inclusion, Scottish Homes, housing and everything else is with ministers. It is difficult for us to comment on that consultation, as it is taking place in a political sphere. We are told that the interim role that I would perform would last for two or three months. I think that that is tenable. The board took the view that we could live with that and that we should not go down the route of advertising because it would be difficult to have a discussion with applicants.We commented earlier on social inclusion. The capability that exists gives us a huge opportunity to build a social inclusion plan on the housing association structure that is already there. As the exact structure, complement and structure of Scottish Homes are under political consideration, it is rather difficult for me to comment on them. However, I would like to comment on its functions. The financial function, which we have discussed today in some detail, is an essential role that has to be performed at a Scottish level. Alex Neil's questions and questions about debt and other matters are all important. Regulation and monitoring are equally fundamental. If we are to draw in private finance, from whatever source, the process for doing so must be robust. We have five regional managing directors. The regional structure is such that we cannot separate Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire, Clackmannanshire and Stirling, or north and south Lanarkshire, and it would not make sense to do so. There must be an overall view to join those areas together.At community level, there have been successes. I take Karen Whitefield's point about GAP Housing Association's financial failure. That is not one of our brighter stories, but there is a capability that is immensely powerful. If members of the committee would like to meet people from some of those organisations, who have achieved more in life than they ever thought they could, I repeat Peter's invitation because I think that that is important. Whatever is decided, some of the elements that we have discussed will be important to the future of Scotland. Those functions are such that they must be continued. They have played and will play an important role in the future of our country."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 603976,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, Lloyd, but we are running out of time, so I must cut you short. We have other serious decisions to take this morning.On behalf of the committee, I thank the representatives from Scottish Homes for giving evidence to us today. We look forward to other submissions on the subject. We will go on to discuss how our work on housing will continue, and I think that members will want to make recommendations based on what you have said today. Thank you very much."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ID": 18289,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 603978,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We must push on because we are running out of time. I let that discussion run on because members had a strong interest in what was being said. I apologise to those who did not manage to ask all their questions, and I thank Cathie Craigie for withdrawing her questions at the last minute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 603979,
      "EditedText": "We now move, appropriately enough, to the housing paper prepared by John McAllion, as reporter. I ask John to take us through it. If members have suggestions arising from the recent discussion with the representatives from Scottish Homes, they should mention them once John has spoken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 603983,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem with that, but Shelter suggested that we have a session with it, and I would like to clear that with it. It might feel differently about that, and it is the main organisation tackling the problem of homelessness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 603988,
      "EditedText": "We could take that through COSLA rather than individual councils."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 604001,
      "EditedText": "I propose that there is flexibility, but it depends on members' views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 604005,
      "EditedText": "I was going to suggest something along those lines in relation to the drugs inquiry programme that SPICe is preparing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 604006,
      "EditedText": "Timetabling is also very important. With an advance timetable, people can plan more effectively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 604007,
      "EditedText": "If we agree today, we can begin to produce one. I could simply present members a timetable for the next three months, but I do not want to do that. We may want to pursue John's idea of alternate meetings on housing and warrant sales, and we may have to put a bit more effort into the drugs inquiry, but if members would like me to organise a timetable I will do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 604009,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 604012,
      "EditedText": "So we are agreed that we want to go through the warrant sales evidence and to hear the housing evidence, as proposed by John McAllion. We will do that on alternate Wednesdays and will set aside the last Monday and Friday of the month for the drugs inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 604021,
      "EditedText": "Convener, you and I keep on missing each other to discuss the details of the drugs inquiry and our visits. I would like to put into the machine, so to speak, a number of potential visits that I feel we should undertake. I have already been on one or two, and I feel that it would be valuable for other members of the committee to go on them. They cover different aspects of the problem, dealing not only with urban areas but with more dispersed deprived communities and some of the old mining villages of Fife. That gives a balance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 604022,
      "EditedText": "I will circulate the paper from SPICe that mentions the people it recommends we invite. I honestly do not think that there will be any objections to it. Keith and I will meet and, at the beginning of next week, recommend who to invite to the official evidence phase of the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 604023,
      "EditedText": "Will you be able to tell us on which Mondays and Fridays we will be meeting over the next couple of months?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 18291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18291,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 604031,
      "EditedText": "It is usually just three parties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C604032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 18291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18291,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 604032,
      "EditedText": "In the coalition? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 18291,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 604033,
      "EditedText": "Now, now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604037",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 604037,
      "EditedText": "Members should think about that matter when we have our forward plan, which will take us through November, December and possibly some of January. As long as we make it clear in advance why we are having private meetings and what we will cover in them we will reassure people that we are not saying politics is only for politicians. I acknowledge Keith's point about a certain newspaper, but we need to reassure communities and organisations that we want them to hear our open debate.We will agree to this paper, and it will determine how we operate. When we need to meet in private we will provide advance notification. Committee members should tell me or the clerk if they feel that we need to discuss in private how we question key witnesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18292,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 544.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 544.0,
      "ID": 18292,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 604042,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that we will take on board the recommendations that were made earlier, and that they will be written into the report, which Martin will circulate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18293,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ID": 18293,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 604047,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:29."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 603784,
      "EditedText": "I attended the meeting, but it largely tackled the objective 2 structural funds map and the Highlands and Islands. Because the objective 3 papers had not arrived in time, the topic was not covered. We are not the only committee that seems to get papers from the Executive at the last minute. The matter was not covered, but it is on the table and it will be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 603791,
      "EditedText": "The issue of Scottish Criminal Record Office checks will be returned to. It connects with the next point, which is that Karen Whitefield was appointed as the committee's reporter on voluntary sector issues. Karen will make a brief statement on her progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 603797,
      "EditedText": "Part of the remit of the reporters will be to ensure that decisions that are made by the committee are addressed and that appropriate recommendations emerge. I ask reporters to trawl through the records to ensure that business is completed. The work programme will be updated for the next meeting. We will return to that issue.It was decided that I would liaise with Roseanna Cunningham, the convener of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, on the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill. I will talk about the issue in greater depth later, because it is important for our work. Roseanna and I have failed to make contact on a number of occasions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 603802,
      "EditedText": "We might hear evidence, then the other committee might hear the same evidence. We must not allow that to happen, particularly as the clock starts ticking as soon as the bill has been introduced. Something must happen within three months, otherwise the whole thing falls.It would be unfortunate if a bill should be lost because we are unable to organise the committee's timetable to accommodate the time scale involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 603803,
      "EditedText": "From what Ken Hughes told me yesterday evening, I understand that the bill will not necessarily have to keep to that three-month deadline. I will recommend that we pursue it immediately as there is a substantial amount of evidence to be heard, but the bill is not as hide-bound as other bills are because of the financial resolution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
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      "ID": 18287,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 603809,
      "EditedText": "There is potential for different aspects of the bill to be dealt with by different committees—I assume that the Local Government Committee is concerned about the effects on the recovery of council tax. We must keep a balanced view when questioning witnesses and ensure that only the aspects connected with our committee are reflected in the questions that we put. We must also ensure that the committees do not speak to the same witnesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 18287,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 603810,
      "EditedText": "Roseanna Cunningham said that she and the clerk of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee had drawn up a list of people from whom evidence would be taken. It is important that the committees take evidence from those who are for and those who are against the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 603820,
      "EditedText": "I have a copy of the letter here, and I can circulate it to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 603822,
      "EditedText": "I do not think so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 603823,
      "EditedText": "That might go to the Equal Opportunities Committee. We need to seek clarification on that. Can we move on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
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      "ID": 18287,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 603826,
      "EditedText": "An outstanding item from a previous meeting is that we were to receive—from the Scottish Parliament information centre, I think—some sort of mapping exercise of all the social inclusion work that is going on among the public sector agencies in Scotland. We asked for it about three or four months ago and there does not seem to have been any progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18287,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 603828,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Inclusion",
      "HeadingID": 18288,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ID": 18288,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 603832,
      "EditedText": "Indeed—it was most entertaining. We must pay attention to the evaluation of social action; we might need to reflect critically on it, although we do not need to do that immediately. The general feeling of the social action team—given our liaison with some key organisations in the field—was that the issue would be an on-going item on our agenda. We must ensure that we keep our eye on it. The ad hoc group should keep meeting regularly and—as appropriate—bring recommendations back to the full committee. Do the other members of that group wish to add to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Inclusion",
      "HeadingID": 18288,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 105.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 603838,
      "EditedText": "I hope that organisations will bring issues to our attention in that way. Are there any other views on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Inclusion",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 603839,
      "EditedText": "I am getting very confused about a timetabling point. You say that we are taking evidence from the action teams next week. We already have an evidence session with the drugs inquiry and possibly another with Volunteer Development Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 603852,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in a number of points that John Ward made, particularly with regard to the success of such organisations as Calvay Co-operative Ltd and Queens Cross in Glasgow. You said that there were 350 housing associations under your aegis. What is their average size? What do you feel is the optimum size for an association to have the necessary critical mass to be effective, particularly with regard to housing partnerships, which may be imposed at some stage?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall (Scottish Homes): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 603854,
      "EditedText": "Sixty per cent of associations have fewer than 250 houses. That is an astonishing statistic. Some of the larger associations have between 3,000 and 4,000 houses, but no more than that. In the past year or so, some of the larger English-based housing associations have moved in, and they are increasing their involvement in Scotland. They have as many as 25,000 to 30,000 houses under their management.Several months ago, the board of Scottish Homes considered size in relation to the new registration arrangements that are being introduced. The discussions showed that, to a large extent, size is a non-issue, because of the types of structure that can be put in place. For example, Home Housing Association, which is based in the north-east of England, has introduced group structures, which make it possible to have the economies of scale of a larger organisation at the centre, dealing with matters such as private finance, but to continue to operate subsidiaries that are much smaller and are managed at community level. There is currently a wide range of sizes, which is likely to continue. The sector will diversify even further as housing associations become more involved in non-core housing activities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward (Scottish Homes): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 603848,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Margaret, for the opportunity to join you today. I want to say a few words about the strategy to which we are working. It is behind the paper that we circulated—the short paper summary that you should have received in the last week. It is an attempt to try, briefly, to summarise our strategy. I am sure that you must get piles and piles of bumf and we did not want to overload the system.Going back to 1996-97, our strategy was to look at housing as one of the fundamental building blocks of life, rather than numbers of units. It started when we looked at the challenges that Scotland faces—the Parliament will have to deal with all these issues. We had to recognise that we have a range of problems.The economic problem has seen the nation slip from one of the leadership countries of the world to what is now substantially a branch economy. Having had one of the highest skill achievements in the world, today Scotland is ranked in the middle twenties by most international comparisons. Lifestyle is perhaps more worrying. During the past few days there have been reports that our female cardiac problem is the worst in the world—the same unenviable position that Scottish men have been claiming for many years. There is a bronchial health problem associated with that, too. We read in the papers that there is a worrying escalation in our drug problem. Another league that we top is that of teenage pregnancies; 13 of the top 20 constituencies for single parents are in Scotland and of the top six, five are in Glasgow.We do not want to be top of those league tables. It seemed that if housing is a fundamental building block of life, housing in its wider form must be one of the contributors to our social situation. When we looked at these problems, we found that they were largely geographic and that many could be defined in terms of areas where there was mono-tenure housing, low skill, unemployment and unstable communities with a downward spiral of achievement.We researched in Scotland and studied areas where communities had taken charge of their own lives, such as Calvay in Easterhouse and Queens Cross in Maryhill, where there was a community-led organisation with mixed tenure and a much wider agenda focus than housing. We found that an upward spiral was created. The strategy, therefore, was based on the assumption that we should look at housing as a fundamental building block that can start an upward spiral in life, improve lifestyle and help communities take charge of their own lives.The strategy that was put together and which was briefly summarised in the paper that we sent to the committee was based on the five principles of quality, leverage, partnership, empowerment and inclusion.Quality means the quality of housing—worryingly, 93 per cent of houses in Scotland fail to meet the Government's standards on heat insulation. It is also about the quality of management of housing. Scottish Homes has a regulation and monitoring system that ensures quality management of housing.Leverage is about bringing in other sources of funding. We bring in roughly £1 of private money for every £1 of public money. Whatever the taxpayer contributes is doubled by investment. Leverage and quality are handled at a national level.Many people must be drawn into partnerships and local authorities are—as they should be—at the centre of that. Health authorities, police authorities, the private sector and a range of voluntary organisations can contribute. They do not contribute only at local authority level—they also contribute at a regional level. In many areas we find that it is impossible to look at a single local authority. That is why North Lanarkshire Council and South Lanarkshire Council combined to form the Changing Gear partnership. There are other partnerships of that sort around Scotland.Where people live and where they work is not dependent on the political boundaries of local authorities. We must examine partnerships regionally and in terms of local authorities. At a community level, we are looking at empowerment and inclusion. We have found that if we can empower communities, we can bring them back into the mainstream of life. That is what we want.To make all that happen, we have put in place a chief executive's performance agreement, which Peter McKinlay gets once a year. A copy of that is included in the package that we sent to the committee. It is an attempt to create a succinct and clear set of principles to which the whole organisation is committed. Those management principles have resulted in our being awarded a charter mark for the second time. We have achieved Investors in People status and we have received the Quality Scotland excellence award, which is based on the European quality model. We are, I believe, one of the first public sector organisations to win that award at the first attempt. We have also won an award for having the best human resource management system in public service. These are major accolades for the internal management of the organisation.Regulation and monitoring ensure that the 250 housing associations in Scotland are properly managed and motivated. We have transferred 40,000 houses to housing associations in seven years. That is done after an exhaustive balloting process. Only after all tenants ballot in favour does the board allow a transfer to take place. Subsequently, of course, the board manages the communities. We have never had a failure or a bankruptcy in the housing association movement and more than 80 per cent of them are ranked good to very good in terms of their management.The organisation is well established and it can grow hugely. We hope that—as the whole idea of sustainable communities and social inclusion develops and takes root—the organisation can expand to manage a great deal more housing. At the end of the day, community capability and community capacity are the defining factors in how much housing can be absorbed.I will conclude by saying that this is a vital strategy and that it has a strong management system behind it. Our structure, which operates at a Scottish level, at regional level, at local level and at community level, is unique in Scotland and we have a proven ability to deliver through a tried and tested regulation and monitoring process. I hope that the text we have sent to the committee conveys that, but I thought that it would be useful to reinforce those points."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay (Scottish Homes): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 603850,
      "EditedText": "I would welcome a discussion with members of the committee. I do not have that long left. Laughter. Sorry—I retire on 3 December, so this may be my first and last appearance before the committee."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603855",
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      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "EditedText": "There is a serious issue of balance. I would submit that, if we want an association to be genuinely community based, size is a factor, as is the geographical spread of the housing stock.In England, the voluntary housing movement has gone down a radically different route from us in Scotland. As Hugh mentioned, there are associations all over England with 25,000, 30,000 or 40,000 houses. With the exception of the nationals that John mentioned—such as Bield Housing Association and Cairn Housing Association—our associations are, for the most part, smaller and community based. If we are serious about social inclusion and increasing community capacity and people's self-esteem, we should tend towards a smaller, more obviously integrated, community structure.One serious issue that relates to size is long-term viability. One has to be concerned about associations that have 300 houses and little prospect of getting any bigger over the next 10 years; in the long-term, they are too small. The other issue is choice. If we are not careful, one could end up replacing one kind of monopoly of social rented housing in a given geographical area with another. The only difference would be that the housing was no longer public, but voluntary. That is something that must be considered pretty carefully."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 603866,
      "EditedText": "I will write to John McAllion about the paper that we gave to his select committee. I do not want to get the numbers wrong again.The background is that until 1989 the voluntary housing movement's developments were 100 per cent—sometimes more than 100 per cent, if the contract was overshot—funded from the public sector. The movement raised no private money at all. A big difference after 1989 was that it was expected to raise a proportion of development costs from the private sector—that was entirely novel. As John Ward said, when we started, £7 of public money levered in £1 of private money. For a variety of reasons, we have improved the ratio since then so that it is now almost pound for pound. Maybe Hugh can give you more detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 603868,
      "EditedText": "The pound for pound ratio is current, not historical. In 1989 the ratio was nothing like pound for pound."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603873",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
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      "EditedText": "We will do that.Two important points need to be registered. Whether the leverage rate is seven public to one private, or one to one, or whatever, the key principle is that private money is coming in that did not use to come in. Given what our 1996 national house condition survey said was the investment needed in all Scottish housing—including owner-occupied housing—and given that the block grant is £16 billion, there is no way all that investment will come from the public purse. Rather than continue our debate about defining public expenditure—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 603874,
      "EditedText": "I was just about to come to that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603878",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 603878,
      "EditedText": "We may not have time to go into this in detail. We have been working with organisations in the financial sector to consider securitisation. Rather than the lending organisation taking security on the bricks and mortar asset, they take security from the income streams—from the rent that is coming through. There is still discussion about whether it is necessary to transfer the assets to enable that securitisation to take place. The jury is still out on that. There has been a similar argument about the private finance initiative as to what is on-balance-sheet and what is off-balance-sheet. A fair amount of work is still to be done on that. The lending organisations and those who are promoting securitisation have a bit of convincing to do. At Scottish Homes, we are making it our business to explore those approaches, as we have to examine other ways to get private finance into housing."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 603881,
      "EditedText": "The same applies in the mortgage world as well. Mortgages can be offered much more quickly because it is on an income stream rather than on the assets. It is a whole switch in the industry."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 603883,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I am happy to do that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 603886,
      "EditedText": "At the risk of being described as a sook, I thought that Mr McAllion's article in The Herald on Monday was spot on. When this committee puts on its social inclusion hat, and when, early in the new year, it has the Executive's social inclusion plan to think about, it would be entirely appropriate—as I understand it, this is the underlying intention of the parliamentary committee process—for it to be involved with all the agencies that deliver social inclusion in communities, local authorities and regionally and nationally. Those agencies should come before this committee to debate how and when they think that that should be done. I regret that I will not be here to enjoy that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 603890,
      "EditedText": "I am suggesting that, although the minister could nominate the chairperson of the committee, this committee should endorse that nomination and the Parliament should approve it. The panel would have to report to this committee as well as to the minister."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 603892,
      "EditedText": "Should not the Parliament make those decisions?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 603896,
      "EditedText": "The case is not proven. I was suggesting that there could be other ways. We still have to consider the technical accounting aspects in discussing whether those assets are off or on the balance sheet, and what contingent liabilities that might entail for the public purse further down the road. Now that we can leverage in large amounts of private finance on the back of the existing stock transfer methodology, it would be wrong for us to rule out other ways of accessing private finance. Indeed, other possibilities are being pursued."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5163597+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 603898,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I have been encouraging local authorities to take one step back before they consider the new housing partnership proposals which could involve transfers—they should consider them in a wider context and determine whether there are other methods of financing. I know that some local authorities are actively doing that. The time scale is such that we should be able to get a clearer view of the private finance potential before the proposals are put to tenants in a ballot."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603900",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 603900,
      "EditedText": "As evidence that Scottish Homes is an open and honest organisation, I am about to ask my colleague a question, although I am not about to fall out with him. Are you saying that investment could, in effect, be secured without going through the process of removing control and ownership of the assets from the public sector?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 603908,
      "EditedText": "John Ward referred to the ability of the housing association movement to grow. Like John McAllion, I am looking at that not least in the context of the Glasgow stock transfers. You posed the question without really giving the answer.I have two questions. First, how long does it take a typical housing association to go from the original idea to being fully operative in getting to grips with the issues? Secondly, by how much do you think that the housing associations can grow over a reasonably short period? Can they double the number of houses that they handle? Is there a measure of their ability to take on, for example, the stock transfer in Glasgow?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603909",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 603909,
      "EditedText": "Taking responsibility for the management of a discrete group of houses in an area can happen quickly. We should define the wider role—the social inclusion role. We can do so with reference to Queens Cross in Maryhill, which has been mentioned. That housing association does more than simply provide housing. It looks after owner-occupied housing and runs apprenticeships; it has 500 work spaces, an effective care in the community programme and a strong ethnic programme. It has drawn in credit unions and has created a complete community with the full involvement of local councillors. That has taken 20 years. It might be that, because of the knowledge that we now have, something similar could be achieved elsewhere in less time, but it could not be done in 12 months. Peter has more experience of this, but I would have thought that a housing association with perhaps 250 properties could reasonably quickly grow to having 1,000. It would take longer to grow to having 4,000, as that would require a more substantial structure. We would, however, expect such associations to be up and running immediately. They would be monitored and supervised and we can put people who have knowledge and experience on housing association committees."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 603911,
      "EditedText": "In broad terms, there is potential over time to grow the housing associations by a substantial amount, in some instances."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 603916,
      "EditedText": "I have one or two other points. I was fascinated by the discussion on the funding of stock transfers and the potential for other methods of development. However, I am not sure that I fully understood those very technical points. Like others, I think that the Government could change the public sector borrowing requirement limits, but that is a broader issue, which is not within our power. Are you suggesting that there might be ways around PSBR limits for allowing stock to remain in the public sector through slightly different devices, such as income flow and securities? Are we still stuck with the need to get round the PSBR limits and to remove housing stock from the public sector?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 603917,
      "EditedText": "Although we currently have the PSBR boundaries, we are exploring other methods of development. As John made clear, private finance is only one aspect of the desire to transfer housing stock; there are other reasons for wanting to do it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 603918,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that, but I am trying to focus on the technical aspects."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603919",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 603919,
      "EditedText": "We have produced a debt paper, which we have not distributed to the committee, although some members might have it. Through Hugh Hall and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, we have tried to examine financing, as many authorities spend half all rents in servicing their crippling debts. Hugh has been investigating a range of issues, such as how we manage the debt and whether there are other means of discounting back the future values of income streams and land. We should continue to do that.However, the committee should not think that a magic solution to PSBR is just around the corner. For the moment, it is right to say that the only way in which we can access the funds is through some form of stock transfer, which we hope will be community based. The issue is desperately complex."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 603921,
      "EditedText": "I want to finish with two other questions. When Scottish Homes first came into existence, it was the subject of major political criticism because of its objectives. We have discussed the arm's-length way in which the organisation operates. As for leveraging private finance into your other objectives, are there any advantages in being at arm's length from Government as opposed to being, in effect, the housing strategy arm of the Scottish Executive?"
    },
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  {
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18289,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 603927,
      "EditedText": "We might be the very people to unpick it. All our discussions are wrapped in the notion of community and community involvement. We have talked about control, empowerment and social exclusion, but it is difficult to achieve community empowerment in areas of social exclusion, for reasons with which we are familiar. People who have had hard lives and who are struggling to survive find it difficult to become involved. John Ward said that community involvement and community control was a continuing challenge. In my experience and, I am sure, in the experience of other members, some management committees—including some in my area—work well and do a fantastic job in local communities whereas others struggle, with the staff running the organisation. How do we actually deliver community control, rather than just spraying on the word \"community\" to make ourselves feel comfortable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 603936,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that it is probably fair. They vary hugely, from the association that operates across the Western Isles, which has a few houses on every island, to rural communities where the houses are a lot less far apart. In the farther-flung places, it is more expensive to construct houses, because of the cost of running services to the house. Such houses are also much more expensive to maintain.It is probably more difficult to operate such associations. Peter referred to that earlier. Getting community spirit in more remote communities is a real struggle, but it is possible. In Dumfries and Galloway, which Fiona Hyslop mentioned, houses are scattered. However, in places such as Newton Stewart or Castle Douglas, the houses may not be all adjacent, but it is still possible for there to be some feeling of community. It varies widely and it is difficult to give an overall average."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 603937,
      "EditedText": "In large parts of my constituency region, mid-Scotland and Fife, it is a worry that, despite the growth of the housing association movement, large areas lose out. Such areas do not have the same kind of involvement. Problems in rural areas are often overlooked because of the major problems in the towns and cities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 603938,
      "EditedText": "It is true that major cities tend to grab the headlines, because of the huge problems there. However, I would be disappointed if, through our regulation and monitoring, we were not ensuring a tenant involvement in our housing associations, particularly in Fife. I could understand that in Barra, but not in Fife."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 603941,
      "EditedText": "In the performance agreement, our regional managing directors have as a primary objective a working and strategic agreement with every local authority. Peter and I visit them all to ensure that those agreements are working, functioning and in place. It is vital that in every local authority area there is a clear strategic view. One of the tragedies in parts of Scotland is that, after we have invested in housing and tried to create shops and facilities of that sort, a huge shopping centre is built a few miles away. Scotland is littered with examples of that. Joined-up thinking is an awful phrase, but it is desperately important. Local authorities have a clear view. Their job is to pull in everything—houses, roads, health and so on—and view the situation from the citizen's standpoint. Where that structure is in place, we find that the strategic agreements are very productive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 603942,
      "EditedText": "You said, \"where that structure is in place\". That varies, does it not? There is a huge number of local authorities; there must be some that you are worried about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 603943,
      "EditedText": "In some cases, local authorities join together. I mentioned the Changing Gear programme in North and South Lanarkshire, which has been very effective. Wonderful political leadership has made that happen. It has given us a clear direction: whether we invest in houses or in roads, we know that everything will come together. If we are trying to restore an area on a peripheral estate, it is important that things such as primary schools and health care run in tandem. Linking those together is important. To some extent, we can try to do that by having a strategic agreement not just with the local authority, but with the health board and the education authority. However, when the local authority has a clear view of its enabling role, the strategy works much more effectively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 603944,
      "EditedText": "I want to add a couple of points. Thirty-two community plans are to be with the Scottish Executive by the end of this calendar year. I suggest that those will be the delivery vehicle for the Government's social inclusion plan. Community plans will belong to the council, but they will not be the council's prescription for what it intends to do. It cannot tap its baton and tell the health authorities, the police, Scottish Homes and everyone else what they must do. According to the guidelines, community plans will be put together by having a dialogue within the local authority, so that education knows what planning is doing, planning knows what housing is doing, and housing knows what social work is doing.That is a good start. However, as John said, the authority then has to link everyone else in and have a dialogue about who is going to do what, where, when and why. From that dialogue will come the joined-up plan, which will ensure that schools are not closed while there are plans to build several thousand family houses in the area. Community plans will be the vehicle by which people will start delivering, which is easy to say, but difficult to do.Scottish Homes has done two things that are beginning to work, although they have a long way to go. Strathclyde Regional Council, Glasgow District Council, Glasgow Development Agency and Scottish Homes set up the Glasgow Regeneration Alliance out of which has come the Glasgow Alliance. Similarly, the Highland Well-being Alliance is up and beginning to run. Glasgow City Council and the Highland Council will put the published strategies of those alliances at the core of their community plans and will elaborate on them. We all have to work around councils' community plans."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 603945,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We will have to move on."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Hall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 603949,
      "EditedText": "I am not aware that there has been any research. It is probably correct that the cost of raising finance through public sources is less thanthe cost of raising private finance, but the difference in cost is diminishing as lenders become more comfortable with lending to the housing sector in particular. It is more expensive to borrow privately than it is for the Treasury to raise funds. That is in terms of direct cost, but one should also consider the opportunity cost—that money spent in one area is not available for other areas. We do not have such an assessment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter McKinlay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 603953,
      "EditedText": "Well, okay, but it happens to come through the public works loan board, so if we start with that, what Hugh said is right. Ultimately, over 25, 30 or 40 years, the cost to the taxpayer or to the tenant paying rent will fall, but the money will have to be paid sometime. My understanding is that, for the foreseeable future, this whole fiscal area has been delivered to us in Scotland as a given. We do not have powers to adjust fiscal arrangements; therefore, our tendency is to say, \"That's it, get on with it\". We try to make the best of it, diminish the downside and maximise the upside of the situation. We can undertake to examine the points that you have raised with our colleagues in the Scottish Executive, and see whether we can produce a helpful paper for the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 603954,
      "EditedText": "It would be very helpful, Peter, because if it still shows a significant difference in the cost, either to the public purse or to the tenant, of the leverage money over the lifetime of a housing programme or whatever, as I suspect it will, even with reduced rates compared with previous private sector rates, that would give us the ammunition to return to ministers and argue that alternative funds need to be found, without keeping you in a straitjacket in terms of the amount of money that you can raise. Such information would be extremely useful for the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 603957,
      "EditedText": "The two are not mutually exclusive, John, are they?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ward: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 603962,
      "EditedText": "Housing benefit is a huge issue. In Midlothian, rents are about £23 or £24 a week. However, one street away they are £44. That is fine as long as housing benefit is paid. There is a different means of providing support. That is a huge issue that the Scottish Parliament must face. We are waiting to see what will happen."
    },
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  },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 603963,
      "EditedText": "Do you agree that Scottish Homes and the Scottish Executive should submit representations on the matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5319876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 603980,
      "EditedText": "As the paper states, two discussions have already been held—one was held on Monday in Glasgow to discuss housing finance and the other has just taken place with Scottish Homes. I propose that there should be a further eight discussion sessions in the coming period. The main topic, as has become clear this morning, is stock transfers. That is the housing issue of the moment. I therefore suggest that we spend a minimum of four sessions discussing that. I would like to spend longer than that, but the pressure on the committee is such that we must be realistic about the amount of time available to us. As far as the structure of those four sessions is concerned, Fiona Hyslop and I thought that we could spend two sessions focusing on urban stock transfer and two focusing on rural stock transfer. I discussed that suggestion with Shelter and with the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations, and they suggested that we should have a separate session with landlords. That is a loose term that includes the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the SFHA and the Chartered Institute for Housing, all of which are deeply involved in the stock transfer programme and have a lot to tell the committee about it. Representatives from those bodies are on the advisory panel that is advising the Executive on stock transfers.It was also suggested that there should be a separate session with tenants. It would be up to us to decide which tenants to invite. If we do that, there are two groups of tenants whom we would have to invite to the committee. The first group would represent tenants who are opposed to stock transfers—such as representatives from the Glasgow campaign against stock transfers—and the second group would represent those who are in favour of stock transfers, such as the West of Scotland Forum of Housing Associations, which represents a group of tenants who have been through the stock transfer process and who support it.We could have sessions with those two groups, or we could have sessions with representatives of urban and rural interests. We could not, however, meet all four groups. It is important that we have a meeting with Shelter because serious implications for homeless people arise from stock transfer. Shelter and the Scottish Council for Single Homeless should have a session with us. Wendy Alexander will also have to come to meet us.Those sessions would have to happen consecutively, but they could be spread out. The minister would not have to come before us until towards the end of the process, when we have taken written submissions and so on.I have mentioned the other sessions that will—as we have agreed—need to be fitted in at some point. Those are briefings on the responses to consultation on the green paper and on the housing benefit reform proposals of Westminster. There will also be a session with the homelessness task force. Ethnic minority housing is an issue that has not been focused on a great deal in the past, but it deserves to be examined. That programme would take us a couple of months to complete, but we need to sort out the role of the reporter so that we get regular reports. We should also, perhaps, start to allocate sessions for housing, sessions for social inclusion and sessions for the voluntary sector, because I am working in a vacuum—I do not know how many sessions we will have on housing and I need to know that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 603984,
      "EditedText": "We must assure Shelter that we are taking the issue seriously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 603985,
      "EditedText": "I caution the committee that many councils have not made decisions on stock transfer, and if we invite them to the committee early, they might not be able to tell us much. They might be able to say only that option appraisals are taking place, on which they cannot comment. No council has taken a decision to transfer stock—councils are still going through their own processes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 603986,
      "EditedText": "I agree with John that it would be difficult to invite individual councils. COSLA will give us the views of local government, and the councils will feed into that. We must watch our position—we must not step on the democratic toes of the local authorities. The councils are democratically elected by the people, including their tenants, and they will make decisions for their own areas. It would be better for us to deal with this through COSLA."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 603990,
      "EditedText": "This is a major issue. Like it or not, the Glasgow stock transfers are central to it. I do not think that we can examine those matters in general terms, without a focus on what is happening in Glasgow, which is the biggest city in Scotland and has the biggest stock transfer. Aspects of the situation are unique to Glasgow. I take Fiona's point that we will not find out about that through COSLA—we must take a direct approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 603993,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we could liaise with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 603995,
      "EditedText": "Are we generally in favour of this approach?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 603999,
      "EditedText": "I thought that our feeling was that as the evidence that we will hear in the drugs inquiry will not be like this—it will be much more conversational and informal—we should do that outwith the formal committee. Given the other difficulties that we have with time—as the Parliament meets on Wednesday—I thought that the feeling of the committee was that we could do the drugs inquiry on Mondays and Fridays. That would free up the three Wednesdays of the month for other business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.2038426+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 604000,
      "EditedText": "Is that the Monday and Friday of the last week of the month or every Monday and Friday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 604002,
      "EditedText": "I think that we may run into problems with this. I am happy to do it provided we are given notice. I had a problem on Monday: I wanted to come to the briefing in Glasgow but had a long-arranged familiarisation visit with St Andrews university for the regional MSPs in my region, which had been postponed once already because it clashed with committee meetings. As Bill Aitken knows, this issue has been raised in the Parliamentary Bureau. We do not work only a three-day week and everybody knows that. The consultative steering group report proposed meetings of the Parliament and committee meetings should take place during three days. We are now moving into Mondays and Fridays. That is fine as far as I am concerned, but the problem arises when members have long-standing constituency engagements. Members get a reaction if they cancel constituency engagements once and a pretty nasty one if they do it twice. We must sort this out, so that we know what we are doing. Otherwise, I will certainly run into trouble. As I have a particular interest in the drugs inquiry, I want to attend those sessions.I agree that the visits are crucial—I have done a few during the two-week recess and they are valuable. We must organise visits so that as many members as possible can attend. That is where we run into problems if we meet on Mondays and Fridays."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 604008,
      "EditedText": "We seem to go over this at every meeting, but the key thing is to establish a pattern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 604011,
      "EditedText": "We might not need all of Monday or Friday for visits, but the crucial thing is to block them out as soon as possible. Alex is absolutely right—if we do not do that, we will be in difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 604015,
      "EditedText": "Can we decide as soon as possible which day will be set aside? We need to know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 604024,
      "EditedText": "I hope so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 604026,
      "EditedText": "Yes—and I will come back to the issue of having private or public meetings. I have not forgotten about that.I appreciate our difficulties, but let us not be too downhearted. The committee has managed to get through its brief, which is very wide-ranging. It has been difficult to come to this new. We all have different agendas and different interests that we want to pursue—but there is a sense that things are beginning to take shape. By Christmas we will have covered a lot of ground. We are getting there, so let us not panic too much. I am sure that we can get a grip on our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C604027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 604027,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have to be careful not to do too much at one time, because we will end up doing it thinly. That would not be to the credit of either the committee or the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 604028,
      "EditedText": "I am confident in the work that I have seen coming forward and in the recommendations of how to get through some of the issues on our agenda. I thought that today's discussion was good. It is not concluded, but we got into some of the meat. Remember, we have a long time. I do not think that anyone is pretending that the work that we do between now and Christmas will be the last word. We will return to many of the profound issues. However, we are beginning to move in the right direction, and we should acknowledge that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 18291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ID": 18291,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 604029,
      "EditedText": "Point 5 on the agenda is private/public meetings. We all have a paper from the clerk. To reiterate, we were concerned that our efforts to deal, for example, with housekeeping, with tidying up our business, and with setting dates in our diaries, should not take up valuable time during the formal part of the committee. Those housekeeping issues were the reason—the only reason—for meeting in private. We asked for clarification on that from the clerks. Have you all had the chance to look through the paper? Are there any comments or possible amendments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C604036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 18291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18291,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 604036,
      "EditedText": "One of the problems is that a lot of these issues—for example, the questions to be asked—are likely to come up at the beginning of meetings. That will lead to a timetabling problem. We do not want people to be waiting about because they did not know in advance that there was to be a private session. We will have either to plan ahead, or allocate a particular time for meeting in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 18291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 604038,
      "EditedText": "The point is that if the committee is to go into private session, a specific decision should be made to do so: there should not be a general, blanket arrangement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 18291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ID": 18291,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 604039,
      "EditedText": "And the decision must relate to a specific piece of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Meetings",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 542.0,
      "ContributionID": 604041,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We would need also to include an agenda item on the need to take a decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C604043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18292,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 544.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 604043,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C604045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18293,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ID": 18293,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 604045,
      "EditedText": "It might be useful, particularly as we are running out of time, if Martin Verity could produce a written remit for reporters on one side of an A4 sheet of paper, and we can discuss that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C604046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18293,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ID": 18293,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 604046,
      "EditedText": "Yes. At our next meeting we will have the Scottish social inclusion network action reports, we will report on the progress and contents of the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill concerning warrant sales and we will deal with items of business that have emerged from our discussions. Karen Whitefield will report on the Scottish Criminal Record Office checks and the report from the University of Abertay, Dundee, and next week we will hear from the social inclusion action teams. Scottish Homes will send us more papers. John McAllion will ensure that they are given to the committee. We will return to the issue of the timetable and at the next meeting we will have a paper on reporters.It is one minute to half-past 12. What a life. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:53.219468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 603987,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate the points that Cathie is making, but our role is to examine the process. If we are examining that, we can reasonably ask councils what their process has been to ensure tenant involvement and what role they are taking in examining the different financial arrangements that Hugh Hall mentioned. We will not necessarily examine their decisions, but we can examine the process that they are going through, because that is contemporary and what we can usefully comment on as a committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:00.1814562+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 18287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 603816,
      "EditedText": "On that point, have we had any response to the previous letters that we sent to the Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:47.390724+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Social Inclusion",
      "HeadingID": 18288,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ID": 18288,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 603837,
      "EditedText": "That is clear. We should be alert to the materials and publications that we get through. Obviously, people produce them to bring issues to our attention, and we should pay attention to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:47.390724+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ID": 18289,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 603897,
      "EditedText": "A quarter of Scotland's housing stock could be transferred in a matter of years. My concern is whether there is enough time for other avenues of financing to be explored before the ballot for that scale of transfer takes place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:47.390724+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3353
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Homes",
      "HeadingID": 18289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ID": 18289,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 603899,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. That is very helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:47.390724+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12932,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12932,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 478467,
      "EditedText": "Good morning and welcome, colleagues. I welcome Wendy Alexander; it is good to see her here this morning. I also welcome Ted Davidson and David Middleton, who are becoming old friends of the committee—it is the third time that we have seen them here. It is good to have them back again.I will briefly review our proceedings. Wendy will take a few minutes to address us and then I will open the meeting for questions. The normal procedure is that a member indicates a wish to speak. She or he gets one question and a short supplementary. If the supplementary wanders all over the place, the member will be pulled into line. This is usually quite a well-behaved committee, but we will see how members do this morning. They have had a break, so they might be back fighting fit. We are scheduled to meet from 10 until 12, but the meeting might not take as long as that. The sooner we start, the sooner we will finish, so I should be grateful if Wendy could begin her address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 478474,
      "EditedText": "Do you have a supplementary question, Donald?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 478475,
      "EditedText": "It might fall under the same umbrella. Would you personally—or, to the best of your knowledge, would the Executive collectively—take a dim view if the committee, either on its own or together with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, set up some form of review? Would the Executive co-operate with such a review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 478476,
      "EditedText": "That is a question for Jack McConnell to answer. Nevertheless, I shall give a collective answer. It comes back to respective roles and the fact that we are all still feeling our way. It is not the place for the Executive to dictate the work programme, in any shape or form. Should the committee decide that it wants to run a PR review independently of, or in parallel with, Kerley—and I imagine that there are aspects of finance that we are reviewing, both the traditional and the modernising elements, that you want to scrutinise—that is a matter for the committee, not the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 478485,
      "EditedText": "How will local councils take ownership of the leadership advisory panel? How will we get away from the perception that it will be like a travelling fair, with someone sitting in judgment saying that one council deserves 9 out of 10 and that another will get 10? How can we get across the strong message that we want to implement the panel by working with councils? I welcome what you said about the forum—that is a good way to take things forward. Is there an opportunity, through that body, to acknowledge the difficulties that have been imposed on local government, for example by reorganisation? Perhaps you cannot comment specifically on finance, but there are more than financial implications to the reorganisation of councils. Councils were reorganised for political reasons, and not necessarily in ways that made most sense for delivering services. Should we explore how to support councils in dealing with that? I am thinking about Glasgow, but there are difficulties elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 478490,
      "EditedText": "That was two questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 478491,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. Strike out one of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 478493,
      "EditedText": "According to reports in the press two or three weeks ago, the Executive has decided to extend the life of councils, possibly to a four-year cycle. If that is the case, do you intend to hold the elections on the same day as parliamentary elections? If we go down the route of proportional representation, which, according to the press, is now a less favoured option, would you expect the new system to be introduced in time for the next local elections?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 478500,
      "EditedText": "A certain number of members is required if we want to move to a model where councils have an executive and a scrutiny role. There is a relationship between the two. The Kerley committee will consider such matters. We did not want to pursue them in a party political forum; we want to try to reach consensus on them. We have attempted to acknowledge the genuine link between the work of the leadership advisory panel and the parallel work that Kerley is doing. It seemed inappropriate to send Kerley off to do a programme of work without acknowledging that there would be a simultaneous debate about political structures and the fact that some councils may move to a model where there is an executive and back benchers. I am aware of a number of councils in Scotland that are doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 478501,
      "EditedText": "There is obvious concern among councillors that the entire exercise could lead to a significant reduction in the number of elected members. According to the Executive document, any improvement in the remuneration of councillors can be met only from existing resources, which may mean fewer councillors. While that may make management structures more effective, it could have an impact on the relationship between councillors and their electorate. Fewer councillors would have to serve larger electorates, which may make it more difficult for them to serve effectively. Might there be an increase in the number of elected members in some local authorities or is that, frankly, not on the agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 478505,
      "EditedText": "My perception—which may be entirely wrong—is that at UK and Scottish levels, the national Administration is, in a non-political sense, essentially anti local government. The national Administration is about the national Administration doing things that it thinks it does well; it has grave suspicions about local government, which it thinks is far less competent. There are sniffs of that in, for example, the Scottish Executive's response to McIntosh. In four years' time, minister, do you think local government will have more or less power than it has now? Would you like to comment on your attitude to local government?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 478513,
      "EditedText": "Let us get back to business. The second item on the agenda is the programme of visits and consultation. Members have been issued with paper LG/99/7/1, which lists some core questions that Morag Brown from the Scottish Parliament information centre has drafted. The questions are based on discussions that we have had at previous meetings. We can amend them, if members so wish. The questions will be sent out to the councils before we visit them. Obviously, we can add to the list, once we have heard people's answers. In the meantime, is there anything in the draft that members would like changed? Kenny—sorry, I was going to call you Keith. I get confused because there are two people on the committee whose names start with a K."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 478507,
      "EditedText": "We will hold you to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 478508,
      "EditedText": "Surprisingly, there do not seem to be any more questions. In summing up, I want to make a couple of points. I would like to reiterate what Sylvia Jackson said. As yet, we have not gone out to councils, either as small groups or as a full committee, but those of us who meet councillors during our other business have received positive feedback about the leadership forum day. They did not all agree with what you were saying, minister, but they appreciated the fact that you and Frank McAveety spent so much time with them.I am grateful to you for your comments, in answer to Johann Lamont's question, about the covenant and the joint conference. That is where things should start to gel.I want to pick up on what Donald Gorrie said. Most of us around the table have been councillors, and it would be dishonest of us to say that we should not investigate local government, as changes are needed there. However, the committee must say that it is for local government, rather than against it; I think that we all agree on that. The Scottish Parliament must remember that local authorities, not us, deliver services, but we have the right to monitor what they are doing.That, for me, is the essence of the McIntosh report. The committee has examined its recommendations. There has been some disagreement, but I am sure that we will be able to sort that out. I must return to what I said at the start; we know that our role is to scrutinise, but we want a role as partners, too, even though that is not straightforward.On behalf of the committee, I thank the three of you for coming along. The two civil servants got off easily, I must say. Perhaps one day they will come by themselves so that we can put questions to them specifically. I also thank Frank—I hope that you were not taking copious notes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Local Government (Mr Frank McAveety): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 478509,
      "EditedText": "I am cultivating a gentler and softer image."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 478510,
      "EditedText": "We will take a five-minute comfort break."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 478511,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 478519,
      "EditedText": "In spite of what Ken keeps saying, this was in our manifesto. There is a demand for directly elected leaders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 478522,
      "EditedText": "There is a demand in two places. This is a very good question, because it may settle this matter once and for all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 478523,
      "EditedText": "Without opening Pandora's box, should we not ask councils what other issues they would like to raise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 478529,
      "EditedText": "I will remember that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 478531,
      "EditedText": "I support that point. If we make visits when the clerk is not available to accompany us, how do we report on that visit? Is the onus on the reporter to take shorthand notes, because I cannot do that? How do we cope with the spontaneous response that you want from elected members rather than officials?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 478538,
      "EditedText": "We were going to do that anyway, but now it is on the record. That is a good point.We will now consider the timetable for visits. Craig has an updated agenda paper with the dates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 478541,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Well, no, but on Friday 12 November, I cannot go to Stirling, as I have scheduled a meeting with South Lanarkshire Council for that date. I will also have to attend a constituency meeting, which has taken four or five weeks to organise, on that day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 478559,
      "EditedText": "It is a week on Friday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 478561,
      "EditedText": "No, it is 5 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 478563,
      "EditedText": "It is a week on Friday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 478564,
      "EditedText": "Three people could go, but nobody from the SNP would be there. How do members feel about that? Heartbroken, are you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 478575,
      "EditedText": "I have a slight problem with the Friday. Is it possible to set aside the time between Friday lunchtime and Saturday lunchtime, rather than between Thursday and Friday? There will be parliamentary business on Thursday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 478579,
      "EditedText": "It is all right: no one is paying any attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 12936,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 478586,
      "EditedText": "No, it has not. The short paper on the rating revaluation outlines how we propose to handle the inquiry. The objective is to get the issues out in the open, and it will then be for the committee to take a view on how it wishes to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 12936,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 478589,
      "EditedText": "I see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12936,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 478592,
      "EditedText": "I acknowledge your points, but if we keep adding to the agenda, we will need to have two meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 12936,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 478596,
      "EditedText": "Bristow, what has happened about the Glasgow visit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 12936,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 478597,
      "EditedText": "I am free for the Glasgow visit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12936,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 478598,
      "EditedText": "That is good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 12937,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ID": 12937,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 478601,
      "EditedText": "It is a good idea, because it gives us a map of what is happening and gives a shape to what we should be doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 12938,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 478603,
      "EditedText": "I will clarify that slightly. When the draft is published, that is not one of the formal stages. The draft stage is for consultation with anyone who is interested and for pre-legislative scrutiny by this committee. It is then formally introduced in the chamber. That is stage 1, when there will be a debate. The second formal stage is the committee stage, stage 2, when the committee has the opportunity to scrutinise it line by line and accept amendments to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 12938,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 478604,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that the pre-legislative scrutiny will take place before Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12938,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 478607,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that it is fairly formal and that amendments must be put down in writing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 12938,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 478608,
      "EditedText": "A conference was held on Monday on the remaking of Scotland's local democracy. I understand that Donald spoke at it. Can I suggest that we get the papers from that, that we put it on to the agenda for next time and that Donald says a few words then about how he felt about the conference?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12938,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 478614,
      "EditedText": "We can have some comments because we will get the papers. That is all the business that we have for today, except for one thing that I want to be recorded. Several members have told me that they think that the papers that we get for this committee are very good. I want to rubber-stamp that and thank the clerks and everybody else who produces those papers for us. I find them easy to read, and if I find them understandable and helpful, they must be. We thank the clerks for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12932,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 478466,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 478469,
      "EditedText": "In your letter, you said that the committee had both a scrutiny function to perform and a partnership role. We recognise that. We appreciate that our role will not always be straightforward, and I ask this question for the sake of clarification—if I do not ask it, other members will. Does the Executive have a procedure for issues going to Parliament? The Cubie committee is an example, although I am sorry to have to bring it up. We are all engaged in a learning process—you are learning to do your job as we are learning to do ours. No one in the committee is clear whether the Executive will enable discussions, not about the membership of the independent committees, but about the remit of the committees. Does the Executive have criteria for that? It is a general question and is not specific to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 478473,
      "EditedText": "May I take the opportunity to clarify another important point? The McIntosh commission recommended an independent commission on finance. Therefore, it would have been inappropriate for me not to state the Executive's position on that in the opening debate. I had taken the issue and my statement to the Cabinet, and it was agreed that I should clarify our position. That clarification would include the variety of independent ways in which we thought that elements of the review could be progressed other than in the form conceived of by McIntosh. That has indeed happened. It is true that when I make speeches on local government, or when Frank McAveety visits councils, if we are invited to state the Executive's position and explain the various reviews that are under way, we do so.I regard the committee as being slightly different, because members scrutinise the Executive. It would therefore be inappropriate for me to answer on part of another Executive minister's portfolio; I conveyed that to the clerk in advance of the meeting. My position acknowledges that the committee's role is not simply to hear me make a speech on the Executive's position, but to scrutinise the Executive. Jack McConnell has testified to the committee on matters regarding local government finance, and we would get into a dangerous position if I tried to answer on a point that is the portfolio responsibility of a colleague whom I know to be very willing to testify in his own right. The Executive, collectively, is anxious to avoid Executive ministers testifying on the portfolio of other ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 478480,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair question. We are trying to create a permissive climate for community planning, because we do not want such planning to take the same form in every area. What emerged from the five pathfinder councils' presentation at a seminar in March before the Scottish Parliament elections was that what was right for one area was not necessarily right for another. As a result, we are working with COSLA to develop guidance and support for all councils that is not overly prescriptive.One of the complex issues is the interrelationship between the genuine commitment to community planning—the process by which councils promote the well-being of their communities and we promote joined-up government—and the need to resolve the on-going debate over general competence. We have talked to COSLA about creating a community planning framework. However, at the moment, we are encouraging every authority to establish its own community planning framework that allows the authority to talk effectively to other partners in the area and at the same time allows the authority to play its leadership role as the other democratically elected tier of governance in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 478481,
      "EditedText": "Has the work that has been undertaken so far raised any good points concerning a more holistic approach that brings together the public, private and voluntary sectors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12933,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 478482,
      "EditedText": "You are right to point to the potential for structural barriers. Earlier this week, I said that we would invite all the local government leaders to identify structural barriers that stop them getting their job done. I cited examples such as the provision of breakfast clubs and other aspects of the social inclusion agenda where they felt that they could contribute. We have now sent out that invitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 478483,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise an issue with which we have wrestled, about the relationship involving the Scottish Parliament, this committee, the Executive and local government. One of the difficulties with the establishment of the Scottish Parliament is that power might be sucked up from a local to national level. It is ironic that, as we scrutinise local government and take into account the views of the Scottish Executive and the McIntosh commission, the people who are delivering at local level work in local councils, and much of the work that comes to us as constituency MSPs is about local services. How can we allay some local authorities' fears about our scrutiny role—with the introduction of the advisory panel and with visits from this committee and various other groups—and tell them that it does not mean that we are necessarily sitting in judgment of them, but that we are working with them to deliver the most effective services?Furthermore, on the advisory panel and the issue of evaluation, how will you deal with a local council that receives advice, but which does not necessarily want to take that advice on board?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 478484,
      "EditedText": "I will take those two questions together, as I think the point raised in the latter illustrates the problem of not having in place the relationship raised in the former. I reviewed the McIntosh recommendations yesterday. It seems to me that the first two—on the joint agreement, or covenant, between the Parliament and the councils and on the joint standing conference—are among the most genuinely thorny, and I look to the committee to take a lead on those two areas. We would have a headless wonder if we responded to the detailed specifics of McIntosh that we have put into the consultation paper without trying to resolve the big issues of constitutional structures. The recommendations were made in the spirit of the convention—they are an invitation to create a relationship between the Parliament and local government in which the Executive does not feature. Frank McAveety and I will have a view on whether, should we go ahead and set up a joint conference, it might be better to have the Executive at the table, as that would allow for a tripartite dialogue. However, such action is further down the road. The committee should form a view first as to how to structure that relationship. I realise that that is not easy. We are still driven by the Westminster system—we have select committees that have scrutiny elements to them. Members scrutinise in forums such as this, which does not allow for a round-table discussion. People from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities are still questioning the essential character of the covenant and the joint conference. I would be anxious to be part of those deliberations at a much later stage, when they begin to take shape. I have been circumspect about discussing the backstop position in circumstances where the leadership advisory panel might feel that one of the 32 councils has not engaged with the challenge of developing structures that are right for the 21st century. I am anxious to stress that not living up to that challenge means that the council would not have met the essential criteria of transparency and effectiveness in decision making. We are trying to avoid being overly dogmatic. It would be very sad if we decided on an ultimate backstop position in the absence of knowing how either the covenant or the joint conference will look—although I do not see that situation arising. That raises a wider issue—where are we going with this debate? We are considering the introduction of some form of generic local government bill at some stage in this Parliament. From my point of view, whether we push hard for such a bill in the next session is an open question. I believe that a backlog of legislation will build up and, with the establishment of the convenant and the joint conference, members might want a much longer pre-legislative scrutiny period and, therefore, might prefer the introduction of legislation at a later stage. The obvious way in which to impose a backstop on the leadership advisory panel would be to enshrine a power of intervention in that legislation, but that raises the question of the stage at which that legislation will materialise. That is a terribly winding answer, but there we are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 478488,
      "EditedText": "The question about recognising diversity brings us back to what the character of the commission and the joint standing committee will be. One reason the leadership forum worked so well was that it had one person from each council, so the fact that council obligations in Orkney and Shetland differ wildly from those in Glasgow and Edinburgh could not be ignored. COSLA perhaps does not capture that diversity as fully. The issue of diversity raises interesting questions about the structure of the Parliament's relationship with local government.On the question of individual solutions, I think that we are trying to create a much more permissive regime, although that is not easy. Scotland now has two directly elected tiers of government besides Westminster and the European Parliament. For the first time in hundreds of years, that creates a dialogue between two sets of politicians. Too often in the past 20 years, local government's elected politicians had to talk to Scottish Office civil servants because ministers were spending three days a week in London, one day in their constituencies and only one day in Scotland.The dialogue can become more political—not in a party political sense but in a real and meaningful sense—and less administrative. That will create the opportunity for leadership. Some will succeed and some will fail, but we are not seeking the sort of universal administrative solutions that were forced upon us in the past by political circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 478489,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about decentralisation. The reorganisation of local government was painful in many different ways. In remote areas, it was felt that aggregating authorities led to a loss of local control. By way of a sop, the previous Government said, \"There shall be a scheme of decentralisation.\" What proposals do you have to review the decentralisation scheme that had to be submitted to the then Secretary of State for Scotland? Has the Executive given any thought, without prejudging the issue, to whether adopting a new voting method might impinge on decentralisation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 478492,
      "EditedText": "Let me answer both of them. As you know, decentralisation, active citizenship, engaging people directly and bolstering the representative role of councillors were central to the McIntosh recommendations. I hope that, when people respond to the consultation paper, they will take the opportunity to mention those things. In my statement on 2 July, I observed that community councils are not the only way of listening to what is going on in communities. A plethora of organisations is offering a huge range of opportunities and we are looking for creative submissions on how people can engage with the political process at local level. I am committed to the potential of information technology to allow both greater participation at local level and decentralisation of service delivery in the creation of one-stop shops. There is a whole agenda concerned with access to participation. Much is happening and more can still be done.In answer to the second question, the Executive has no thoughts on the implications of a new voting system, in so far as we have left that for Kerley to consider as part of his remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 478495,
      "EditedText": "If we go down the route of PR—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 478502,
      "EditedText": "Concerns are misplaced. We have asked Kerley to consider the matter. The fact that we did not try to have a narrow review simply of electoral systems—in isolation from who would serve, how they would be remunerated and what role they would perform—was widely welcomed by COSLA. Any attempt to second guess what Kerley will come up with is unhelpful. Given the tight time scales, the real challenge is to persuade everybody who has an interest in the debate to contribute to the Kerley review and to recognise in the submissions the quite complex interaction between any new electoral system and political management structures, the number of councillors and their remuneration. There is no hidden agenda, however. Kerley was set up on an all-party basis, with a remit that we felt was broad enough to capture the complexity of the issues surrounding why people stand, why they serve, what circumstances they should be elected under and how they should be rewarded for their service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 478503,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask you a brief question about Kerley. Obviously, minister, you cannot comment on the findings until they emerge. The rest of the McIntosh report talks about the importance of engaging, the political process, renewing democracy and so on. What weight will be given to the ability of each electoral system to engage the electorate? What will be the impact of having different systems for European, Westminster, Scottish, local government and community council elections? Delivering proportionality is perhaps the best option, but we must recognise, particularly if local government and, say, Scottish parliamentary elections coincide, that differences between the systems might affect people's ability to participate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 478504,
      "EditedText": "I have tried to resist all attempts to shape or influence in any way what Kerley is doing. One of the strengths of the McIntosh report was that it was independent, developed in two phases over 18 months, I think. I believe that there were very few occasions during that process on which Neil McIntosh traipsed in to see the then Secretary of State for Scotland, subsequently the First Minister—because he wanted to maintain some distance. The concern is wholly legitimate, but I felt that, having set the remit, the obligation of ministers was to stand back and not to try to steer the exercise. We identified proportionality and the ward-member link as key criteria and asked the committee to examine recommendations on an all-party basis and in that spirit. You also raised the complexity of a proliferation of electoral systems, Johann. At the leadership forum, Mr Kerley made a presentation to me and everyone else, and one of the slides that he showed highlighted that very issue. In so far as I have seen him present that to all council leaders, I know that that issue is on the agenda. It is something that he is raising as he goes round the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 478506,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is wholly misplaced to suggest that there is a hostile attitude towards local government in Scotland. McIntosh was widely regarded as an agenda for local government for which many people had campaigned for more than 20 years. It was widely welcomed, and we overwhelmingly accepted its recommendations or put them into consultation. It is an enormous step forward on the democratic agenda, which local government has been advancing for 20 years. The evidence refutes Donald Gorrie's essential premise that the Administration is hostile to local government. The very first debate the Parliament had was on the nature of its relationship with local government. At that time, we were asked to accept 30 recommendations. We accepted the overwhelming majority, or asked for further consultation with local government or with the Local Government Committee before seeking resolutions. I therefore do not accept the central premise of Donald's point. The answer to whether local government will have more or fewer powers is probably more in some areas and fewer in others. I do not know that those will be drawn by statute. I will explain what I mean. We do not live in a static world. I would be failing in my duty as a minister if I changed nothing about how we attack poverty in some of the most deprived estates in Scotland. Therefore, the balance of responsibilities changes in what I do. I can cite two areas in which local government will have a massively expanded role. Too often, we refer to new burdens, but new burdens can also be described as an expanded role. At the moment, there is a consultation paper about transferring to local government resources that are currently held by the Department of Social Security to help care leavers establish themselves in supported accommodation and jobs. That, by any criteria, is central Government moving resources to local government. I hope that it will allow local government to become the personal adviser to everyone leaving care, to ensure that they do not fall through the cracks, as happens at the moment.We are now under an obligation to provide child care across Scotland. Local government has a hugely expanded responsibility in that area—not as the sole provider, but as the lead provider of care. There is nothing inevitable about that—further and higher education, by contrast, are provided by others.There are many areas in which local government will play an expanded role in the new Scotland. The boundaries will not necessarily be enshrined in statute. One of my firm convictions—my attitude to local government proves this—is that the new Scotland is not just about making laws; it is more about how we do things. This afternoon, we will debate domestic violence and discuss how we support work against violence against women. That requires not a change in the law, but a fundamental change in the way in which we do things.The fears are misplaced on two counts. First, because we were asked to accept the McIntosh report, which represents a huge democratic advance. We have done that. The benchmark has been set. Secondly, the fears are misplaced because of the way in which, day to day, ministers make decisions—on care leavers and rough sleepers, for example. I think local government can be very optimistic about its future strategic role in housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 478514,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of minor points. In question 4, on proportional representation, should we not mention the three systems that McIntosh has suggested, so that we do not end up with 57 varieties of response? The McIntosh commission spent a great deal of time examining this issue and narrowed the options down to three. We should ask councils which of the systems they favour, rather than try to reinvent the wheel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 478517,
      "EditedText": "I have another query, regarding directly elected leaders. I know that Frank sees himself as the future Rudolf Giuliani of Glasgow, but we are flogging a dead horse here. There is no interest in the idea from local government in Scotland, so I do not understand why we are continuing to ask about it. Nobody that I have met from any political party gives a monkey's, apart from the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 478518,
      "EditedText": "It will be easy enough for people to answer the question, then—they can just say no. We could build up a database that indicated that nobody, apart from Frank McAveety, wanted directly elected leaders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 478524,
      "EditedText": "We could include that on the list of questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 478525,
      "EditedText": "I want to make more or less the same point. We need to ask councils what, in their view, are the key priorities and the main pressures. One of the important reasons for visiting people is to get different answers from different perspectives. There could be a standard question about what priorities we should have that could help them, or words to that effect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 478530,
      "EditedText": "I want to make the same point about constructive dialogue. We should say that we are conscious of the time that councils are giving to various visits at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 478532,
      "EditedText": "When we first discussed this, we talked about the reporters agreeing a common format for their findings. We do not envisage members doing shorthand notes, but they could perhaps produce some kind of report to present to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 478537,
      "EditedText": "I know that we have agreed that what we are aiming for is a representative group of local authorities—big, small, urban, rural, etc. Is it appropriate for us to consider writing to the local authorities explaining what we are doing and possibly allowing them a chance to give us their written thoughts on these questions? We could explain that it will not be possible for us to visit every single local authority, but that would at least explain the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Harper (Assistant Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 478539,
      "EditedText": "Given scheduling constraints, the fact that many of the committee's members served on more than one of these working groups, and the dates on which councils were available, this is what I have come up with. If we agree to the visit on Friday 5 November, which is the only date on which Glasgow City Council is available before Christmas, we will be able to visit nine councils. Dumfries and Galloway Council, Clackmannanshire Council and South Ayrshire Council could not fit in with the dates that were given before Christmas. We will have to accommodate them at some later juncture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 478540,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any questions or problems with that? Kenny wants to go somewhere else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 478543,
      "EditedText": "One last issue to consider is travel. I spoke to the chief executive of Shetland Islands Council. To get up there and back, our visit would have to straddle the Thursday and the Friday. The committee would have to travel up at lunchtime on the Thursday. That is the only way. It is impossible to get up there and back in a day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 478546,
      "EditedText": "You could return at lunchtime on the Friday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 478548,
      "EditedText": "Do you envisage that these will be all-day visits, or are they expected to last only a couple of hours in the morning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 478549,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are considering an all-day visit—or as much of the day as we can manage—given the questions that are going to be put and the fact that we will be addressing officials, councillors, people who are receiving the services and kids from schools. One of the things that I remember from Neil McIntosh's presentation was that, although such consultation takes a long time, it is worth while. There should be an informal element, too, even if it is just a conversation over a sandwich lunch, which would allow us to talk to a lot more people informally, rather than in a formal information-gathering session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 478553,
      "EditedText": "If the meeting were to last all day, I would find that difficult to accommodate this Friday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 478554,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean Friday 5 November?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 478556,
      "EditedText": "Who could go to Glasgow? We decided that neither Johann nor Kenny, nor I, would go."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 478558,
      "EditedText": "That is this Friday."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478560",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 478560,
      "EditedText": "It is next Friday—a week on Friday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 478562,
      "EditedText": "Which is not this Friday—it is next Friday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 478566,
      "EditedText": "Gil, if you cannot manage to attend that meeting, we will remove your name from that. It just gives you other guys more work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 478570,
      "EditedText": "My goodness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 478571,
      "EditedText": "That is your more intelligent half."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 478580,
      "EditedText": "When Bristow returns we can clear up the matter of the Glasgow visit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 478581,
      "EditedText": "Can we have some information on where the council's offices are or where the meetings will take place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 478582,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we will provide that information with the travel arrangements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 478585,
      "EditedText": "Eugene, do you wish to say anything about the rating revaluation inquiry? Has the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities replied to you on that matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 478588,
      "EditedText": "We have not approached it so far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12936,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 478591,
      "EditedText": "I am meeting representatives of the forum for a couple of hours on the morning of the meeting, so they will be here. We should also hear the opposite perspective from the Scottish Retail Consortium, which represents larger enterprises in Scotland. In order to get the full picture, it would be appropriate to hear from larger businesses as well as smaller and medium ones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 12937,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12937,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 478600,
      "EditedText": "I thought that it was excellent. I have already added one or two things after Wendy's remarks this morning. She gave some more timelines for the Executive response to McIntosh. She said that it is hoped that it will produce its response by January or February. We can add a few points, but it is excellent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12938,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 478602,
      "EditedText": "On the ethical standards bill, it is a sort of white paper—I do not know what it is called in this Parliament. A draft will come to us, which we will examine and comment on. Our comments will go back to the Executive. The Executive may take on board all of what we say, some of what we say, or none of it. The second stage, is when we can amend it if, for example, the Executive has taken cognisance of some of what we have said but we are not happy with other aspects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 478605,
      "EditedText": "The plan is that the draft will be published within the next few weeks and that the bill will be formally introduced in the chamber early in the new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12938,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 478609,
      "EditedText": "In my arrogant and busy way, I only attended my own session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478611",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 478611,
      "EditedText": "I gave a highly entertaining address, but Morag Brown attended it all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 478615,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:31."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12933,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 478471,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for answering the questions, Wendy. As far as I am concerned, the matter has been clarified. Wendy is here for some time this morning, and I would not want the committee to spend that time pursuing the issue further. If members want to pursue the issue by another method, they are free to do so.The meeting is now open for questions. Donald, you have your hand up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 478472,
      "EditedText": "Not unexpectedly. As everyone else in the world—except the Executive—who is at all interested in Scottish local government is in favour of an independent review of local government finance, would not it be reasonable for the Executive to give way on the issue? If it did so, the Executive would not lose any of its short or middle-term activities, most of which we support. Any long-range review would take a couple of years to reach a conclusion, and any major change—for example, to a local income tax or energy or land tax—would take several years, so we are looking years and years ahead. I cannot understand your—I mean that collectively, not personally—thrawn attitude."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Communities (Ms Wendy Alexander): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 478468,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Trish. Why do I have the feeling that we are not the centre of parliamentary action this morning? Laughter. I will take a few moments to recap where the Executive is on the local government agenda. Frank McAveety wrote to you on 4 October, setting out the Executive's planned programme of action following the McIntosh commission's report. It might be helpful if I highlighted the main areas of on-going activity.First, the leadership advisory panel, chaired by Alastair MacNish, has started its work. I set out its remit in a letter that I sent to council leaders, and I know that all committee members have seen it. The panel has had its first meeting. Perhaps more significantly, it has embarked on visits, so councils are beginning to develop a clear understanding of what the panel is setting out to achieve. There is plenty of positive feedback from that process. As you know, the panel's work is intended to continue until the end of 2000. The second area of on-going activity is that of the renewing local democracy group. That name is something of a mouthful—the group is known colloquially as the Kerley group. It has started work; it has a particularly demanding remit and has been asked to work fast. We have asked it to aim for the end of February, but as I indicated in my letter to the convener yesterday, there is clear evidence that it might need slightly longer to produce a finished product.In passing, I mention the leadership forum that took place in September. I was happy that the convener was there. We felt that it was an opportunity to meet leaders in a way that was different from the stage-managed and confrontational meetings of the past. Subsequently, at the end of September, we issued a consultation paper on the various aspects of McIntosh to which we did not respond immediately. We are looking for responses from the public by the end of November. The convener has written to me about the time scale, asking whether the committee could be given more time. I sympathise with that, so I have written to her proposing that at the close of the consultation period, we should send the committee all the responses that we receive—with the exception of those where the author has requested confidentiality—so that it can take account of them in formulating its response. It is up to the committee to decide whether it wants to respond collectively, but we would welcome that if it were possible. The Executive is expected to produce a statement of its conclusions following the consultation period. That statement is likely to be in late January or early February. We would expect to receive the committee's deliberations by the Christmas recess, and would then need time to reflect on all the responses. I hope that that information will help the committee to schedule its activity over the coming weeks.The other major event on the horizon is the ethics bill. We plan to publish a draft bill fairly shortly, with a view to formal introduction in the new year. We are anxious that the committee should play a part in pre-legislative scrutiny at that draft stage. We look forward to working with it on that. I have tried to set out what we are doing as extensively as possible. I am particularly interested to know how the committee sees its own work programme shaping up and how it sees that relating to the Executive's work. Frank McAveety has embarked on a trip visiting all the councils in Scotland—he is about halfway through. The response from councils is that they would like a pause to reflect on their submissions to the McIntosh consultation and to think through the implications of the leadership advisory panel. They have also said that they would like the opportunity to consider their submissions to Kerley, given the width of his remit, which takes in remuneration and numbers of councillors, as well as electoral systems. I am trying to accommodate that pause, and I would like today not to go further than the consultation documents. I want to convey the genuine impression that this is a consultation period and that the time for drawing things to a conclusion is in the new year. I should be happy to hear the committee's views on how we work together to examine the responses to the consultation. I know that the committee is examining many of the same issues on the same time scale and that there is a danger of duplication. I am anxious to explore the scrutiny role of the committee, with which I am completely comfortable. We need to be alert to the way in which we scrutinise legislation and reconcile that with a desire to work in parallel with the Executive. We are in new territory. I am happy to come back to the committee in the new year, once we have the responses to the consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 478470,
      "EditedText": "There are three circumstances of appointments that we are in danger of confusing.The first circumstance is Executive appointments to quangos. Such appointments are dealt with by a commissioner. I know that this area is of interest to members; there have been discussions about the possibility of different forms of scrutiny of the process. The procedure for appointments will remain until the Parliament decides to change it. I think that that will happen in the period ahead.There is a group of ad hoc advisory committees, which includes the local government advisory panel and the Kerley committee. There is no hard-and-fast rule about how the Executive makes appointments to advisory committees.I do not want to make this a matter of principle. I checked the dates and I see that Trish was appointed convener of the committee on 30 June. That was subsequent to my taking a paper to the Cabinet to examine the composition of the Kerley committee, having consulted all the political parties, before an announcement was made on 2 July.On coalition issues, we are driven by the partnership statement, which said that there would be immediate progress on electoral reform and the recommendations of McIntosh. That led to the announcement of the Kerley group.On 2 July, we announced that we would move ahead with the establishment of a leadership forum at the beginning of September. In August, while the Parliament was in recess, we announced the composition of that forum, to enable Alastair MacNish to lead the session at the leadership forum on the work of the leadership advisory panel. We did that because McIntosh had included in his document an obligation that councils should commit themselves to working out a new structure by 1 January 2000. We had to make the appointment in the recess to allow Alastair MacNish time to talk to all the council leaders and to give them 16 weeks—only two or three committee cycles—to discuss the situation with their groups.On the second circumstance—Executive appointments to informal advice groups—there is no generic guidance for the Executive; the formal position is that the Executive makes such appointments. Informal discussions took place with the committee, and had those events not taken place during the recess, perhaps they would have been handled differently.The Cubie committee is an example of the third circumstance of appointments. As everyone knows, considerable space and time are devoted to student funding in the partnership document. However, the document gives a specific commitment that the committee's terms of reference, time scales and membership should be submitted for approval by the Parliament as a whole, so that the Parliament would feel some ownership of the Cubie committee's deliberations. When I got home at 11.05 pm last night and watched \"Newsnight\", I heard Andrew Cubie fulfilling exactly that role when he said that his job was to come up with, and consider, a range of options. The Cubie committee was a special case. Is that helpful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 478477,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to trespass on areas that are the concern of other committees, and I hope that you do not mind if I take housing as an example for the point that I want to make. What strategic role do you envisage that local government can play in the partnerships that it is developing with the private sector? In housing partnerships, for example, local government can govern a whole area within which housing associations can be many and varied. Will local government be given the strategic role in the planning and development of housing, and in other areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 478478,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair question. It would be wrong to suggest that there is not a fuzzy  boundary between committee responsibilities. Also, as a minister, I have responsibility for housing.As members will know, we have published a summary of the responses to the green paper on housing. There was widespread support in those responses for a full recognition of the strategic role that local government can play in housing. The specific issue on which the consultation responses crystallised is whether, when a council divests its landlord role, it should be able to take a much wider-ranging strategic role, which would cover the financing of other housing partners in that area. The responses to the consultation also express a difference in view on how strategic that role can be when local government continues to be a provider in its own right, and a landlord, and therefore in competition for resources in that area. To resolve that, a series of meetings is taking place with housing interests. One of the overwhelmingly positive responses to the green paper was the suggestion that there should be a Scottish housing advisory interest group. We have an embryonic group that meets approximately once a month, which aims to take a statement to Parliament before the Christmas recess, which will set out the Executive's general view on a range of housing issues, including the future strategic role for local government in housing. The aim is to roll out further, more detailed, policy procedures in January or February, and to publish a housing bill next May."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 478479,
      "EditedText": "The feedback that I have received from Stirling Council, about the leadership forum, has been extremely positive and constructive. Frank has also had feedback on that. The fact that you gave up so much time, and that listening was involved as well as presentations, was appreciated.My question follows Michael's and concerns the strategic role of local authorities. I want to ask about the work that is being done in Stirling on community planning. Will you say something about the reports from the pathfinder groups, and will you tell us what you think are some of the issues, as the initiative is spreading out to some of the other local authority areas? The initiative is obviously critical to strategic policy at local authority level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 478494,
      "EditedText": "The Executive has made no decisions of any kind on that matter. We set up the Kerley committee in good faith and we await its deliberations. What was your other question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 478486,
      "EditedText": "It is undoubtedly true that there is concern about the number of initiatives. We are asking all councils to do three ambitious things—they are the same things with which people here are wrestling. What should the electoral system be? How should people be elected? How should they be remunerated? We are asking councils to think about structures that are right for the 21st century for their circumstances and—while they are at it—to respond on the various outstanding aspects of McIntosh and to conduct best value service reviews.With the best will in the world, that is an incredibly ambitious agenda. We have a responsibility to minimise bureaucracy and help people to be truly strategic. There were concerns that, although best value reviews were not meant to be bureaucratic exercises, they tended to become so on occasion. We have acted to reduce some of the burdens. For example, we have introduced a unified set of performance indicators for next year and we have set up a joint scrutiny forum to ensure that the various inspectorates in local government do not duplicate each other's work. We must keep the best value regime simple and make it an exercise that allows people to stand back from the daily grind and does not drag them into it.The candid answer is that there is a legitimate concern, to which we are alert. We can act and have begun to act to ensure that the best value process is about improving the delivery of services and does not impose additional bureaucracy, either for the Executive or in the way chief executive departments carry out the exercise.I hope that that deals with the question about ownership. The process is elevated above an exercise with the unfortunate connotations of the contract specification culture that was so familiar under compulsory competitive tendering and did not have a sense of local ownership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 478487,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to diversity in local government. Different local authorities have a wide range of problems and ways to tackle them. How comfortable is the Executive with local authorities finding their own solutions to problems? An example is the diversity of views on housing, which you recognised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 478496,
      "EditedText": "Oh, yes. There is a variety of views on the timing of elections and the matter is explored widely in the consultation document. As members can see from the table on page 17 of the Executive's response to McIntosh, the matter that gives us concern is that, with a certain phasing of general elections, there could be annual elections in Scotland for 11 consecutive years from 2001. That raises the question of voter fatigue, never mind politician fatigue. There is, therefore, a need for a genuine debate. I look forward to receiving the committee's view, although it may be one of the issues on which it will be more difficult to reach consensus. No decisions have been made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 478497,
      "EditedText": "Could some of the reforms be brought in in time for the next elections, which may be only two and a half years away?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C478498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 478498,
      "EditedText": "One of the reasons for the tight time scale for Kerley was to allow us to meet the commitment to respond rapidly. In principle, we want progress, but I cannot offer guarantees in advance of Kerley's recommendations. However, the commitment to speed is there and was reflected in the original setting of the date for the report in February. As I indicated in my letter to Trish Godman, it now seems impossible for every council to make considerations and submit by then, so there will be a slight slippage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 478499,
      "EditedText": "Twice on page 4 of its response to the McIntosh report the Executive says that part of the Kerley committee's remit will be to advise on the appropriate number of members for each council. The second time that is mentioned, it says the group will be \"taking into account . . . the impact of changes to the political management structures of councils\". Why would the internal management structures impact on the number of council members in a local authority?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12933,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12933,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 478512,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 478515,
      "EditedText": "We should also ask them whether they would like to keep the status quo."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 478516,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we need to ask that question. Councils must justify why they want to keep the status quo, in the same way that they must justify their preference for other systems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 478520,
      "EditedText": "There you are, see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 478521,
      "EditedText": "No one of importance wants them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 478526,
      "EditedText": "I have no objection to any of the questions—it is the way in which we will get the answers. I have a terrible fear that some of the councils will simply produce two or three A4 sheets with answers and talk to that. The spirit of this inquiry should be that of a dialogue around these things, rather than putting councils in the way of having to do too much extra work. There will be a temptation amongst some to show off, or to produce big documents to back up their answers. We should make it clear that these are core discussion elements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 478527,
      "EditedText": "When we send out the letter we will make that clear. You are right. We do not want pages and pages listing the great things that councils are doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 478528,
      "EditedText": "It is important that, when the letter and questions go out to councils, we make it clear that they are not sitting an exam. We recognise that a lot of work has already been done and that if councils wish they can refer us to that.My concern is that officials will answer the questions and that there will be no political engagement in the discussions. More important than the questions will be the tone of the accompanying letter. We referred earlier to the number of visits that councils have had from all sorts of groups. We need to talk about the dialogue that we are in the process of establishing, and the on-going nature of that. This is the first stage, where the most important thing is that we are meeting the councils."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 478533,
      "EditedText": "There will always be at least three of us on a visit. If a member of staff is not present, the three of us who are there can get together and produce a report that will come back to the committee. Later in the meeting we will set aside a date for reporting back from meetings and visits. I take your point, but you would not want to write down everything anyway. You would need the salient points: the main issues that were discussed, any decisions that you reached and anything in particular that came up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 478534,
      "EditedText": "I write very slowly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 478535,
      "EditedText": "He is trying to get out of being a reporter. I can see that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 478536,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Laughter. Get someone who can write fast to accompany me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 478542,
      "EditedText": "We will have to consider that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 478544,
      "EditedText": "Oh dear. What a shame. Who will go up there now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 478545,
      "EditedText": "Could we return on the Friday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 478547,
      "EditedText": "You could return on the Monday, if you are really keen. However, we would have to travel on the Thursday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 478550,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify what was said in our initial letter to councils. We asked for a timetable that would give committee members the opportunity to meet the chief executive, senior officers and senior members in the morning session. There would be a break for lunch, followed, in the afternoon, by a visit that would be based on the things in which committee members had expressed an interest. That is why we thought that an all-day session would be better; it is why we opted for Fridays and Mondays, when there is no Parliament business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 478551,
      "EditedText": "I am conducting some exchanges with my friend here, but we will let you know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 478552,
      "EditedText": "That is all right. You can conduct exchanges if you want. That is not a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 478555,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 478557,
      "EditedText": "That is not this Friday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 478565,
      "EditedText": "We have no axe to grind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
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      "ID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 478567,
      "EditedText": "As it is parliamentary business with which I will be occupied, I will seek to move it to another time, but I do not think that I will be able to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 478568,
      "EditedText": "If you cannot do that, that is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 478569,
      "EditedText": "Some Liberal Democrats think that I am half-SNP, so I will cover for Mr Paterson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 478572,
      "EditedText": "The question is, what is the other half?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
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      "ID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 478573,
      "EditedText": "To attend a meeting on 5 November poses a potential problem for me as well. I need to nip out to check my master diary in my constituency office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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      "ID": 1854,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 478574,
      "EditedText": "Okay. Johann, I hope that you do not have a problem."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478576",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 478576,
      "EditedText": "For the visit to Shetland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12934,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12934,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 478577,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 478578,
      "EditedText": "That makes much more sense, because if something is going on in Parliament it may be difficult for that number of people to be away. We should make the visit from Friday lunchtime. Kenny, we will think about letting you go. How much is it worth? I am not supposed to say that. This is the wrong day to say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478583",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Research",
      "HeadingID": 12935,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 478583,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is research priorities. Eugene Windsor will speak on that matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478584",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 478584,
      "EditedText": "The paper that we have provided gives members information on the committee's research priorities. Members should be aware that we cannot place any more demands on the in-house research unit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 12936,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 478587,
      "EditedText": "I know that many small businesses in particular hold the view that the rates burden should be shifted from small businesses to larger ones, by taking into account the profit-making element. In the light of that, can the Forum of Private Business be approached to give evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 12936,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 478590,
      "EditedText": "The forum has been mentioned a number of times. If the committee wants to hear from the forum, we can arrange that. I suggest that there is not enough time at next week's meeting to do that, given that those who are attending need approximately 40 minutes to present their cases. If the committee wishes to include the forum, we could rejig the programme to include it, or we could arrange to hear from it at a later date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 12936,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 478593,
      "EditedText": "Our investigation is a narrow one. We are not seeking the views of groups that hold entirely different opinions on changes to the business rate. If the issue is raised with regard to a particular area, for example, Glasgow, we may contact relevant groups, but that is not what our investigations are setting out to do. We have a narrow focus with regard to the groups that we are inviting along."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 12936,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 478594,
      "EditedText": "The Federation of Small Businesses and the Forum of Private Business both have interesting but rival schemes for how to deliver lower rates for small businesses. They could both submit their information on paper. In many cases, the issues can be explained briskly on paper and there is no need for a long spiel.I am signed on for their agenda but, in fairness, we should hear from bigger businesses that might be asked to pay more so that the smaller businesses could pay less. It will be fair to give them an opportunity to put their case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8161151+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 12936,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 12936,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 478595,
      "EditedText": "If you look at page 2, CBI Scotland will represent the larger businesses and it is coming. I will discuss this with the clerk. If we cannot adjust the timetable, we can ask for a short written submission. I am aware that there is little room in the programme up until Christmas, as we have visits and a bill that we must examine. Are members content to leave the issue with me and to let me discuss it with the clerks?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 12937,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ID": 12937,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 478599,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is Sylvia's famous map. Have you any comments to make about the map?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 12938,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 478606,
      "EditedText": "I confess total ignorance about how those matters work. At the stage when we examine the bill with an opportunity to amend it, will this committee have a formal discussion in which we have to give notice of amendments beforehand and work our way through them, or is it more flexible than that? To what extent is it formally laid down that if a member wants to move an amendment, they must give notice so that everybody is aware of what will be discussed at the meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 12938,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 478610,
      "EditedText": "You can tell us about your own session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 12938,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 478612,
      "EditedText": "You and Morag can do a double act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2700
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ethical Standards Bill",
      "HeadingID": 12938,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 12938,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 478613,
      "EditedText": "Wendy Alexander spoke in the morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.8317322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7546,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7546,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 285188,
      "EditedText": "The committee will go immediately into private session, as it did yesterday, to discuss how to proceed with today's business and who will ask certain questions. I hope that should take no more than 10 minutes. We will then hear from Greater Glasgow Health Board. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7546,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7546,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 285189,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry (Greater Glasgow Health Board): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 285192,
      "EditedText": "I am Chris Spry, the chief executive of Greater Glasgow Health Board. Andrew Walker is our health economist and statistician on these issues. He is far more adept at deep, technical questions on this than I am. Members have received our submission, which was work in progress because we were working to a different cycle. It was written before we had had an opportunity to have a detailed session with the Arbuthnott team. We have now had that session.First, we warmly welcome the review. It seems to have been done thoroughly and impartially, and it has as good a level of transparency as one could hope to get in such matters. We raised six points in our submission to the Health and Community Care Committee. I will mention those points briefly.The first point concerns the attention that the Arbuthnott work inevitably gives to health care, at a time when the health boards' responsibilities are, increasingly, broadening beyond those confines. Much of our current work is on tackling inequalities in health and working with other agencies to promote social inclusion. It involves community development projects and capacity building, which includes local health projects, food co-operatives, work with others on community schools, family support groups and our contribution to social inclusion partnerships. All those are examples of contributions that we make to that sort of agenda. Very few of them are measured in NHS information systems, but we spend about £1 million a year on them and that figure is rising. We accept that that is very small beer in the context of an allocation formula that deals with billions of pounds in the country as a whole, but nevertheless we think that the omission of this area from the formula sends an unfortunate signal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 285194,
      "EditedText": "Yes and we would expect the trend to draw in an increasing amount of expenditure.The second point, which forms our main reservation about Arbuthnott's work, concerns the community services aspect of the formula. If Greater Glasgow Health Board's allocation followed the Arbuthnott framework, our spending per head on community health services would be 3.3 per cent less than the national average. If we replicated that into the way we spend money in Glasgow, that would mean a reduction of about 22 per cent in services such as physiotherapy, district nursing and health visiting at a time when we would expect to spend more on those services, in order to address health inequalities, the community development agenda, community care and various social inclusion objectives.It is also important to bear in mind the fact that those services have a particularly close interface with local authority community care and social work spending, which is pretty volatile and unpredictable. We have some concerns about that, but I will not go into details about the nature of those concerns. Andrew Walker can respond to questions on that. Our view is that some further work should be done on this or, alternatively, that a weighted average of the morbidity and life circumstances adjustment might be used for acute services, mental illness, learning disabilities and obstetrics, all of which have service connections with community health services.Our third point concerns the adjustment made for rurality. As you would expect, we in Glasgow were interested in that. We accept fully the principle that there is an issue about higher costs being associated with rurality. However, we were mindful of the fact that, even after allowing for differences in the age and sex of the populations, the influence of extreme deprivation on Glasgow's allocation is more or less offset by the rural adjustment for the islands, the Highlands and Dumfries and Galloway. We intuitively felt that to be strange.However, there are two caveats. The first is that some of our discomfort with that strange observation may be offset by the further work that is to be done on unmet need, and I will say more about that in a minute. The second concerns the data that were available. When we met the Arbuthnott team, they took us through their thinking. Although they acknowledged some of the methodological points that we made—and Andrew will deal with those in detail if you are interested—they reminded us that they had used the best data that they had. We thought that that was a fair response.The fourth point is about unmet need. That has been flagged up in the report as an area in which further work needs to be done. As you would expect, we are very interested in that further work and would like to see it drawn to a conclusion as soon as possible. The concept of unmet need is not an easy one to grasp and it is certainly difficult to measure. The Arbuthnott report draws attention to some data about the disparate access to such treatments as hip replacement and statins.One would expect that Glasgow's deprivation would be reflected to some extent in the existing higher levels of utilisation of services; it is already reflected in the morbidity and life circumstances adjustment. The disparities and the patchy nature of local access seem to be the key priorities for further examination of the issue. We suspect that we should consider the fact that unmet need is more likely in the areas in which there is chronic ill health or pre-acute drift towards ill health in which people who should be seeking support or help are not doing so. We think that that is where the problem lies, but we must find a statistically reliable proxy to measure it.Those are the main points. The other issue that we were concerned about involves the way in which the formula should continue to be reviewed. A balance should be struck between constantly returning to it and refining it and the health boards' needs for some sort of certainty. Of course, nothing in this world is ever certain, but it makes life easier if one can have confidence about a forward projection of the resources that one is likely to have. The formula needs to be kept under review, but not in such a way that it swings around in short periods of time, making planning more difficult than it already is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 285197,
      "EditedText": "Arbuthnott was given a remit and, as far as we can see, he has followed it. If the Parliament or the Executive felt that there should be a wider review about the quantum of money that goes into health or about the way in which different agencies can come together to get best value out of the resources that they have, we would agree that there is a lot to do about that, but that is not what Arbuthnott was asked to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 285199,
      "EditedText": "Sir John Arbuthnott told us that in chapter 15 he was dipping his toe in that direction. That is obviously going on behind the scenes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 285208,
      "EditedText": "I am an economist by training and could comment on those aspects. I can do enough statistics to cope with this report, but I would feel uncomfortable commenting on detailed statistical methods.I feel comfortable with the thinking and the principles behind the report and I believe that it would be possible for us to help with the peer review but I hope that it would not be solely our responsibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 285210,
      "EditedText": "As Graham Watt said, there is potential for lots of interaction in this model. As members of the committee have already said, this is a very technical exercise and involves a lot of number crunching. Given the time that was available, I think that the report is as good as it could be. A more extensive exercise might consider interactions. Age and sex are taken account of first and the effects of deprivation are examined, but I do not have the statistical knowledge to know whether we are allowing for an interaction between age and deprivation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 285211,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that it would be possible to have a model that takes co-morbidity into account?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 285212,
      "EditedText": "That is very important, as it might be one of the main causes of some of the unmet need that exists. If someone has a condition such as angina, but has a co-morbidity of severe respiratory disease, they might not be fit to undergo an operation. That might explain some of the statistics that are cited in chapter 15. My slight concern is over the quality of our data. The problem that we return to all the time is that we know quite well what goes on in hospitals—who goes in and out of the hospitals—but we are less sure about the health of the population who are out there. It seems strange to say that, after 51 years of the national health service. However, we are still a little way off an ideal population data set."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 285216,
      "EditedText": "GPs provide the closest contact that the health service has with the population on a daily, monthly and yearly basis. If you were to talk to someone from general practice, they would point to how time-consuming that exercise would be. Anything that they did in that direction would start to deflect them away from patient care. Although, as a number cruncher, I would welcome better data on the population, I think that we must be wary about the costs of gathering those data and must ensure that something useful enough would be done with them. The data would have to add enough value to justify the extra effort that would be involved in collecting them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 285217,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I understand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 285219,
      "EditedText": "Ben, do you have any general questions on the same subject?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Forbes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 285227,
      "EditedText": "That was the next point that I wanted to make. The efficiency issue, in terms of that particular adjustment, is already embedded in Arbuthnott."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 285228,
      "EditedText": "What, if any, are the gaps in the data available for each modelled care programme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 285230,
      "EditedText": "I have a question about the community data, which we discussed yesterday with a number of groups. I am aware that they cover two professions, making up approximately 30 to 32 per cent of the budget. Do you have any thoughts on how the data could be improved and on what alternative measures we should be considering? What information do we need to think about collecting now for the future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 285231,
      "EditedText": "The fact that what you said about community data is the case must be partly a product of the historical development of information services in those professions. The general medical services system—the CMR data set for general practice—is coming along. There does not seem to be any inherent reason why the community service should not be collecting good routine data. If you are taking evidence from anyone in the information and statistics division, such as Richard Copland, they will tell you that the systems are in place and that the data sets are starting to be built up. The issue is still about the quality and the coverage. We hear anecdotal evidence of people who fill in stacks of forms and then, a month later, find them stuck in a filing cabinet somewhere, having never gone off to be processed. It is partly a cultural thing as well.You asked what better data we could be collecting. I have a table in front of me that shows the percentage spent on each part of the community in front of me. A large element of it is described simply as \"other services\", and that covers 56 per cent of community spending. We have to start to understand what makes up those other services, and the way in which they are being allocated across the socio-economic groups in the population. It is very frustrating that 56 per cent of £200 million of taxpayers' money can be described only as \"other services\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 285233,
      "EditedText": "Go ahead. I am going to be thrown out anyway, so you may as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 285234,
      "EditedText": "The first question picks up on the point that you made before, which is of general importance to the whole issue of the remoteness indicator. In your submission to the committee, you said that\"the proof of economies of scale for hospitals is open to a number of detailed criticisms\".Could you give a brief indication of what those criticisms are? Does that subvert the basis of the remoteness indicator? My second question is about health promotion. The section of your submission on health promotion was interesting and opened up a number of general questions about the methodology of the review. How do you think the allocations for health promotion should be dealt with? On the one hand, there could be an allocation within the health service budget, but you suggest that much of that runs into other budgets. Would you have preferred the distribution to have been done in combination with another budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 285239,
      "EditedText": "Are you worried about more closures in the key areas of deprivation in Glasgow if the scheme is implemented as it is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 285240,
      "EditedText": "No. Closures would not arise as a consequence of implementing the Arbuthnott recommendations. Where there is a change in the location of services, especially in the field of mental health—where millions of pounds are put in over a period—it is usually to do with trying to get better concentrations of teams, of skills in mental illness and so on. There is always a big debate about the extent to which one should try to line up mental health services with GP practices and health centres; it is a complicated area. However, the short answer to your question—whether there would be a retraction of access to service in schemes in Glasgow as a consequence of implementing Arbuthnott—is no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 285244,
      "EditedText": "It is a complex area. I would probably take all morning trying to answer your question. The biggest driver of resource distribution within a health board is history—where existing services have been sitting for decades. For a health board, there are two angles on how to change focus to meet need: how to use any development money that is coming in, year on year; and the parts of the pattern of existing services that could be changed better to meet objectives for tackling inequalities in health and so on. We focus on those two broad areas and have developed a financial framework that sets out how we would like to spend money over the next five years. It focuses quite heavily on the new money coming in; that is, using the old Scottish health authorities revenue equalisation formula, without the Arbuthnott effect. We would have expected an annual uplift on the existing resource assumptions of £23 million to £24 million a year. If one takes inflation as equating to the GDP deflator, inflation would take up about £14 million to £15 million of that. That leaves about £9 million a year to use for service development. At the end of a five-year period, one would expect to have a £45 million change in service provision on the back of development.How might we use £45 million over five years? We would probably use about a quarter of it—about £11 million—to develop mental health services. We would use about £3 million to strengthen services for children and families and for community development. About £2.2 million to £2.3 million would be used to strengthen services for addictions and about £1.5 million would be used to strengthen primary care. I could go on and give figures for dialysis growth and so on, but the upshot is that there are a number of things that we would want to do to tackle inequalities in health, and we have a pretty clear idea of what those things are.The constant difficulty that we face is what I would describe as the pressure cooker of acute services. The drivers of increased costs in acute services are relentless—new techniques, new drugs, new materials and so on. Year after year, our difficulty is how to protect our ability to put more money into such things as mental health, community development and services for children, in the face of the relentless pressure that drives the costs of acute services upwards. That becomes a matter of judgment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 285247,
      "EditedText": "What measures are used by Greater Glasgow Health Board to measure socio-economic deprivation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 285256,
      "EditedText": "The one adjustment that we think could and should be made before implementation concerns community services. We have suggested a way of doing that which is not rocket science. With that caveat, plus the injunction to get on with the unmet need part, we would recommend implementation. Arbuthnott talks about a gain of £14 million for Glasgow, which is about 1.9 per cent of our allocation. We need to understand that, if Arbuthnott were implemented, that money would not come in a single instalment—it would be spread over time. We recognise that and accept it. The important thing is the ability to build that into one's financial planning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 285258,
      "EditedText": "That would be possible with the adjustment that Chris suggested—the community deprivation adjustment would become a weighted average of the other data that are already included. We would take the acute sector deprivation adjustment and the psychiatric deprivation adjustment, consider to what, out of those different services, community services are most akin, and make the community deprivation adjustment a weighted average of the good work that is already included. We might say that community mental health teams are part of the community service, so let us use the psychiatric weight for them and try to build up a composite. The only gap would be the 56 per cent of the formula for other services, to which I referred. It would be a pragmatic alternative to what has been put before us, which takes money out of community services in Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 285261,
      "EditedText": "The key issue relates to the judgment that needs to be made about the pace of change. It is always difficult to put oneself in the place of someone else, but if I were the minister I would think about implementing Arbuthnott now and state that there would be modest changes for the next two years, but that, in year 3, further work on unmet need and community services would be done. We would regard that as a perfectly reasonable way of addressing the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 285268,
      "EditedText": "Your question raises a number of points. The short answer is yes, although I will define that more fully. A balance has to be struck, or perhaps we need to decide what we want from such a review. There is a difference between transparency and simplicity. It would be possible to have a simpler approach to this issue—for example, the SHARE formula. However, that is a much less equitable approach and does not address need effectively. If we want to make progress on measuring need more effectively and in turn allocating resources to meet need more effectively, we have to enter some fairly complex terrain.Having entered that complex terrain, the Executive must ensure that the exercise is conducted effectively, objectively and independently, which is what we have done throughout the review process. As for transparency, we need to ensure that people—whoever or wherever they are—who wish to contribute to the process can do so.It is significant that the report was published in three forms. The technical report is for those who wish to analyse the statistical methodology. I know that the committee and the people who have spoken to you have been doing that. The full report is for those who want to explore the principles that underpin the review, and there is a well-written and accessible short guide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 285269,
      "EditedText": "We like the short guide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 285270,
      "EditedText": "Likewise. We could not have provided more information. The right amount of complexity and—dare I say—sophistication was used to come up with an equitable evidence-based formula. We produced the information in a format that the public was able to engage with. I am pleased that the consultation programme was extensive and participative—it is evidence of the fact that people felt able to engage with a technical subject because we packaged the information in a way that allowed them to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 285271,
      "EditedText": "You touched on this matter in your presentation, but I wish to ask you specifically whether you feel that Arbuthnott, as it stands, actually and adequately promotes the Government's health priorities. Do you think that there is coherence between the historic utilisation of services to generate the allocation and the innovative approaches that you mentioned in relation to service provision, which are outlined in documents such as \"Designed to Care\"? I can give you one example. \"Designed to Care\" promotes seamless care. Do you think that Arbuthnott does enough to promote it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 285275,
      "EditedText": "There is a cross-over.Although we are all happy with your comments about seamless care, minister, the biggest difficulty is funding it. Arbuthnott helps by ensuring that the funds are held by health boards, but difficulties arise when that transfer of money and resources happens only partially. What facilities are there, either within Arbuthnott's recommendations or in the options that your department will consider, to ensure that social work departments and the voluntary sector are given their fair share, which, in turn, will lead to the seamless care for which we are all desperately waiting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 285279,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 285288,
      "EditedText": "\"Halt\" and \"do anything\" are two different things. I think that the report will help to address the problem that you have identified. I have already said that it will not, in itself, halt the trend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 285289,
      "EditedText": "I want to move on to the points that are raised in chapter 15 of the review document on unmet need and inequalities. We want to know what is happening on that behind the scenes at the Executive, in terms of extra consultation. Malcolm has some questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 285295,
      "EditedText": "Yesterday, Sir John Arbuthnott said that the allocation should be reviewed annually. Do you have ideas about introducing an advisory committee for resources, as there is in England and Wales? What should the time scale for review be once the final formula is accepted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 285297,
      "EditedText": "You said that SHARE did not address need. I recognise the inequalities in health across Scotland. Yesterday and today, a number of experts have warned us not to get too bogged down in the details of the statistical differences. When you finally consider the results of the allocation—annually or every other year—will you feel that it is appropriate to override some of those allocations? The 2 per cent redistribution under this formula will not go towards addressing the obvious needs in places such as Dundee or Glasgow. Will you be prepared to use your power to override that allocation? Will you bind yourself to the result of that allocation equation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 285298,
      "EditedText": "For the proportion of the health service spend that this formula covers, I would not be inclined to override the application of that formula. The point of adopting a formula-based approach is to have a transparent system so that all those affected can see the basis on which decisions have been made. It would undermine that principle if we were to apply the formula and then say, \"We do not like the outcome there, so we will just make an adjustment.\" The consultation exercise gives us the opportunity to identify whether things are fundamentally wrong with the proposals so that we can ensure that the formula is robust.Alongside the 80 per cent of NHS spend that is covered by the formula, there will always be other areas of spend that could be introduced for specific purposes—capital spend, for example, falls outwith the area that is covered by the formula. Therefore, there is still scope for other elements of spend. However, for the area that is covered by the formula, I want to put in place an arrangement whereby we can apply that formula openly, uniformly and transparently. That is a proper and fair way in which to go forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 285299,
      "EditedText": "I have lots of questions, but as there is only a minute and a half left, I will just make one comment about a concern consistently expressed in the submissions of speakers in the past couple of days. Can we examine co-morbidity again, as it seems to seriously underestimate the degrees of deprivation?Many contributors expressed concern about new moneys to health boards. This morning Greater Glasgow Health Board said that, given the demands on the acute trusts with the need for new technologies and new drugs, any new resources could be gobbled up by the acute trusts and will not address inequality, poverty and deprivation.I will focus my remarks on rural areas. As a member for the Highlands and Islands, I am delighted that there is an increase in its allocation, but I am aware that many Highland patients receive specialist treatments in Lothian. However, there has been a decrease—if that is how we can talk about it—in Lothian's allocation. The Lothian submission mentioned its concern about the specialist treatments. It may be that the Highlands allocation is increased, but that that does not benefit the region because specialist services are no longer available in Lothian.Finally, how would you respond to the British Medical Association's comment that the implementation of your plans would mean a decrease of 20 to 30 GPs in the Highlands and around 33 per cent in Shetland?I am sorry that this is such a long question, but Shetland's contribution yesterday made the case that there are fixed costs involved in catering for the small islands which means that they cannot achieve economies of scale. They feel that they have been unfairly treated by this process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 285305,
      "EditedText": "What is your view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 285311,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that the British Medical Association has got this wrong?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Kevin Woods (Scottish Executive Health Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 285314,
      "EditedText": "We accept that the quality of the data in the areas that you indicated is not as good as it is on the hospital side. Nevertheless, the two data sources that have been used in the report represent significant developments and innovations here in Scotland. We see the development of the data sets as a priority and we hope that, over the next two or three years, there will be improvements in the quality of the data, which should inform the development of the formula."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 285321,
      "EditedText": "What I was trying to get at, Susan, was the fact that the element of health promotion was not in the building blocks of the Arbuthnott formula in the way that some other services were."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 285326,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry that we have run out of time, as I am aware that all members of the committee have several more questions. There are a few technical questions that we might address to Dr Woods in writing if that was acceptable to him. Our priority today was to question the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 7548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 7548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 285335,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that that is a matter for the clerk to pursue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 7548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 7548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 285336,
      "EditedText": "We are considering the matter at the conveners committee and through various other avenues.I thank the minister and her colleagues for attending the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 285344,
      "EditedText": "The key issue was the time available—I was aware that we were tight for time. I understand where you are coming from, Duncan, and I agree about pursuing issues to a logical conclusion. However, I felt that, if we had done that, we would have spent the time on only three issues rather than on the number of issues that we had decided in advance that we wanted to cover. In our submission, we will be able to say what we think about these issues. We did not have enough time with the minister—we were just getting to the stage where everyone would have been happy to pick up on the points that had been made and to pursue them. I was trying to ensure that we covered the range of issues that we had decided that we wanted to cover; I also wanted to ensure that everyone had the opportunity to say something. Initially, I said to members of the committee that, as well as asking the questions that they had signed up to ask, they would also be able to input some of their own ideas—for example, Mary added to the question that we agreed earlier. The issue is both the time available and the length of time that the minister took to respond, particularly to the earlier questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 285346,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that you can say that we have done a disservice to the people who raised issues with us, Mary, as the committee's report will make use of their submissions. It is up to us to ensure that that report is robust and reflects those submissions. I go along with you 110 per cent on the way in which this committee conducts itself as a group of individuals. I welcome the fact that we try to put party politics behind us—indeed, I gave Dorothy a hard time about that yesterday. We have a job trying to access information about this issue in order to be able to put together a report. The way forward is for us to organise another meeting with the minister and the officials from the Executive. We should ask for another meeting in light of what we heard today and the fact that members had so many questions left. As I intimated earlier, that would be better than trying to pursue the matter through written questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 285349,
      "EditedText": "I think that all members would agree with that. I certainly agree with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 285352,
      "EditedText": "It is a habit with the minister. She has got into a habit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 285357,
      "EditedText": "When she answered my questions, she brought in the officials, which she had not done before. She could have answered my questions quickly and simply, but she chose not to do so. She chose to get bogged down with one aspect of my second question—which was not what I was asking about—and chose to bring in the officials, which she had not done before. That extended the questioning more than I had anticipated. I thought that when I asked the questions she would say to the first, \"Yes, we will look at extra data resources\"—it was a simple question—and that she would have to spend a minute or two answering the second question, which did not warrant the 10 minutes that she took."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 285358,
      "EditedText": "That is the minister's habit. I had some sympathy for you when you asked your question, convener, as you had to repeat it. That is what took up a lot of your 10 minutes. She was still not giving an answer. That was the pattern throughout, as it was on the last occasion when she addressed us. For some reason or other—I do not know why—I quite like the minister. She has some warmth and I would never accuse her of being dishonest; she is only starting out. However, she has got into the habit of talking an ever-rolling stream of waffle. If we can help to cure her of that habit, in the early days, I am sure that she will develop into a very good minister. She is hooked on the belief that she can get away with an endless, insulting stream of waffle, but that is part of the dishonesty of politics, which the public does not want to know about. In the worlds from which members—some of us, at least—have come, the answers that people want are \"Yes\", \"No\", \"Maybe\", or \"I will look into it\".We do not want the waffle to continue. You need to pull up the minister on that and ask her for short answers, otherwise we will get nowhere. We will nag at you, convener—perhaps unfairly, because you, too, are a waffle victim. You have to come down on her about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 285361,
      "EditedText": "The minister is playing with that—it is her style."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 285362,
      "EditedText": "It is in the minister's interest to harness the good will of the committee. I feel that she was insulting and I believe that she owes us an apology. There is good will in the committee. We are considering joined-up government, partnerships and social inclusion; those practices should all begin in the committees of the Parliament. That was not a good way in which to conduct business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 285363,
      "EditedText": "I would not go as far as that. It is Susan's style. I have been in situations outside the context of politics in which she has had a similar style. I think that we should ask for a further meeting with her."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 285364,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are looking for a little more discipline from you, convener, towards the people whom we question. I agree with Malcolm that we need to have more discipline in the way in which we prioritise our questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 285367,
      "EditedText": "My point is that you could be more robust with us, the members of the committee, as well as with the minister. In other words, you should tell members that they should put in a submission containing questions that they would like to ask the minister; if those members are not present, those questions can then be asked by people who turned up on time but did not put in a submission. As convener, you can tell us that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 285370,
      "EditedText": "That may be helpful and I will consider your suggestion. We must still decide whether to request a further meeting with the minister next week. What are members' views on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 285371,
      "EditedText": "There is no point. She will only waffle on for another three hours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 285372,
      "EditedText": "There would be no point in asking the minister to come back next week. I explained my position; we will see the minister again on 17 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 285374,
      "EditedText": "I think so. Having the minister here next week would be a futile exercise."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C285187",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "ContributionID": 285187,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:49"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C285190",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    "Committee": {
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 285191,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, gentlemen, and welcome to the Health and Community Care Committee. Could you kick off by following up your written submission on the review with a short oral presentation? The committee will then ask questions. It would be helpful if you could introduce yourselves and tell the committee what your roles are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 285193,
      "EditedText": "That is also a trend, is it not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 285200,
      "EditedText": "I did not understand it to be a dip, but a large part of the report was not transparent to some of us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 285202,
      "EditedText": "The formula relies on a wide range of morbidity and life circumstance indicators that vary from one area to another. Why, in Greater Glasgow Health Board, does the inclusion of those indicators seem to have so little effect? Is it because your deprivation indicators have been cancelled out by the remoteness indicator?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 285198,
      "EditedText": "It seems extraordinary that the report does not attempt to go beyond its remit. It is one of the few reports that I have seen that does not do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Andrew Walker (Greater Glasgow Health Board): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 285204,
      "EditedText": "I echo that. Glasgow has the most extreme indicators of deprivation in the country. Around 80 per cent of the most deprived postcode areas in the country are in greater Glasgow. We are being weighted against because of the excess cost adjustment that reflects the remoteness of rural areas and the age and sex adjustment that reflects older populations. Our population is slightly younger and we have a much more geographically concentrated service than the UK average, which has a substantial offsetting effect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 285205,
      "EditedText": "Yesterday, we heard from representatives from Shetland Health Board, which has a different set of problems. They told us about their problems in terms of transport of patients and so on. Do you think that one formula would suit all health boards?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 285207,
      "EditedText": "By its nature, the report is detailed and technical. It is important that there is a high degree of confidence in the statistical outcomes, which affect people's lives directly.I asked Sir John Arbuthnott yesterday about the prospect of independent peer review of the analysis. Would Greater Glasgow Health Board have the capacity and the expertise to check the methods and results underpinning the proposed allocation formula?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 285209,
      "EditedText": "Yesterday, Professor Graham Watt, from Glasgow University, mentioned that the report underestimated the level of health deprivation and did not address co-morbidity adequately. He said that that might be why Greater Glasgow Health Board did not get the allocation that it expected. Has analysis been conducted on how targeted allocations in greater Glasgow might fluctuate as a result of assumptions about the value of key variables such as population?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 285214,
      "EditedText": "They have some data, certainly; however, it varies throughout the country. One GP, who is interested in diabetes and who is computer literate, might have an excellent diabetes register for his or her list. Another GP in another area might not have the same interest or computer skills and might use a different system. If those two types of GP were in different areas, we would not get a fair reflection of the situation throughout the country. Nevertheless, there is potential for the collection of such data to be built on, as people become increasingly computer literate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 285218,
      "EditedText": "You asked about sensitivity analysis, and whether allocations were robust. That should be directed to the Arbuthnott review team, as it holds all the spreadsheets. We have asked for elements of the formula to be varied a little, particularly concerning the sparsity adjustments for community services. However, I imagine that they have been inundated with such requests, as they have not had time to reply to that request."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 285220,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I want to return to the point that you made about people spending too much time examining the statistics and missing the bigger picture of the better use of money. Do you recognise that the Arbuthnott report fails to take into account the efficiency, better use of money and better practices in different health boards? A particular practice may make one's pound go further in certain aspects of care in Greater Glasgow Health Board, whereas those aspects may not be implemented in Grampian Health Board. Do you accept that the Arbuthnott report does not take that efficiency coefficient into account?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 285221,
      "EditedText": "An allocation formula from the Scottish Executive to the NHS in Scotland should reflect the needs of the population. In that sense, it should not reflect relative efficiencies. That is not to say that differential efficiencies between health boards are not important; they are extremely important. However, we must look for other devices to tackle that issue. An allocation formula concerns the fair distribution of the cash that is available to the NHS, based on the characteristics of the population rather than the efficiency of the institutions that provide the care. The efficiency issue is extremely important, but there must be other means of addressing it: through audit, performance management by the NHS executive, and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 285223,
      "EditedText": "I look to John Forbes to guide me on this. My understanding is that they use national average costs to value the resource use at a local level, so that should be taken out of the equation, as it were. It should not matter how efficient one hospital is relative to another on a local basis, because—and correct me if I am wrong, John—I think that they used a national average costing base to value the resources that we used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr John Forbes (Committee Adviser): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 285225,
      "EditedText": "You are absolutely right when you say that they use national average costs, but the key question about efficiency seems to relate to any differential between the national average and what is actually happening in a particular health board, where a whole set of incentives can be seen emerging in terms of the wedge that could be driven between the national average—where you should be, according to the allocation—and where you actually are. You could be above or below that national expectation, which is, I guess, why Chris made the point about how important it is to look at the differentials."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 285232,
      "EditedText": "I have two questions. I do not know whether I may ask them both, but I had better in case I am not invited to speak again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285242",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 285242,
      "EditedText": "Certainly. There are at least two aspects, and possibly a spectrum in between. One aspect is what we would all recognise as traditional health promotion, when people go round giving advice on smoking, exercise, lifestyle and so on—the sort of things that are directly linked to illness. There is also the bigger agenda that Chris talked about—you might call it public health promotion—which is more about the fundamental determinants of health: education, housing and so on. It is a question of horses for courses. The problem for the Arbuthnott approach is that the same types of data set are not available at postcode level, with current spending on services, compared with data on acute services, psychiatric services and so on. As part of future work on the Arbuthnott review, we would have to start thinking of ways to tap into the available data. The Scottish health survey is a good source of data on the lifestyle of the Scottish population and how it is distributed by age and social class. That could be used as the basis for a health promotion formula. When we say that we may be spending only 0.4 per cent of the national budget on health promotion, according to the management executive performance management template, that is where the judgments come in. Should it be that figure? The statisticians would say that it is—and always will be—0.4 per cent. Economists are different beasts. To say that it should be more than that is a potential policy lever for the management executive. Nothing is written in tablets of stone. It could be said that a particular weighting is put on the acute sector, according to how much is spent on it. There is nothing to say that that has to be the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 285249,
      "EditedText": "What measure of deprivation is used?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Forbes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 285251,
      "EditedText": "The question is not exclusively in connection with the Arbuthnott formula. What measures of deprivation do you commonly use in studies of health or health care utilisation—such as the Carstairs index?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 285255,
      "EditedText": "It is one thing to have a formula that says, \"Let's move things round so that we can hit inequalities, deprivation\"—whatever. It is then in the hands of the health boards to ensure that they use the resources and target the things that we want. Unfortunately, we are running out of time, but I have one last question. Generally, you have commented on gaps in the formula and areas of the report that concern you. Broadly, your concerns are the scope of health promotion and health—as opposed to health care; the lack of data for community services and the results of that; unmet need, which Arbuthnott identified as requiring further work, and on which it looks as if we will begin at least one other consultation; and the need for on-going review, taking into account the fact that you do not want to rock the boat too much, because people need to know what is planned over a period of years. I put all that to you in order to pump-prime my question. If you were the person who had the ear of the minister, do you feel that the formula is at the stage where you would be telling her to go ahead and implement it and then tinker around with it and keep reviewing it? Or would you say that this is the point at which to refuse to implement the formula because it requires more work and improvement? Which of those courses of action would you recommend?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 285259,
      "EditedText": "It is not intellectually unreasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 285262,
      "EditedText": "Unfortunately, we have run out of time. Thank you for your time and your submission. We will now take a short break."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 285263,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 285267,
      "EditedText": "You can sense that the committee is champing at the bit to ask the questions that it has homed in on over the last day and a half.Some of the key principles of the review are equity—\"Fair Shares for All\" is the subtitle of the report—objectivity and, critically, transparency. I do not think that I am doing my parliamentary colleagues any disservice—they are a fine bunch of men and women—but the committee has struggled to call this report transparent. It is technical and detailed and contains an awful lot of subtexts. Later, you will be asked about the review's remit and place in the wider health care picture and about the changing trends in Scottish health. For the moment, can you tell us whether you are content that the report is transparent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 285272,
      "EditedText": "Is Arbuthnott sufficient to address our priorities? No. Is it an integral part of a much bigger picture? Yes.In terms of some of the detailed methodology that is recommended in Arbuthnott, I do not want to say that everything in the report is perfect. That would negate the purpose of the consultation exercise, and I do not want to prejudge it. We will look carefully at the input that we receive although, as I have said, the broad thrust taken by the report is valid. It cannot do everything, and we should not look to it to do so.The wider issue of seamless and integrated care was a primary objective of \"Designed to Care\". It is a subject that I have paid a great deal of attention to since I was appointed a few months ago, and it is being addressed. We are making changes to the design of services all the time and working out how we can best provide services to meet individual and community needs. As you know, that means shifting services from a hospital setting to a community setting. That means changes with regard to which agencies deliver services, which in turn means changes to working practices, which means changes to funding arrangements. That is a developing area.\"Designed to Care\" was a necessary first step: I say that without looking in the direction of any particular party. A prerequisite to making changes—in my view, in the view of the Executive and in the view of the previous Administration—had to be the removal of the internal market in the NHS. That has happened: we have put in place a structure that is based on collaboration, not competition. That structural change was finished only in the past few months. It is now my job to ensure that we make effective use of the NHS partnership working arrangements that have been put in place and to extend them into effective partnerships with other agencies.A lot of change and progress has occurred with regard to co-operation. A great deal of it has happened through effective joint working at a local level in many parts of the country. We have a long way to go, but it is right that we take one step at a time. It is important that we progress on a phased basis so that we move forward without undue disruption in the NHS and other service areas. Arbuthnott is one important element of moving along in the right direction, but we do not do that in isolation: we do it by addressing other areas as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 285277,
      "EditedText": "I am very aware of the time, and I know that we have many questions to get through. Dorothy, I think that your question about the remit of the committee ties in with what we have discussed before."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 285278,
      "EditedText": "A couple of witnesses have questioned the remit of the Arbuthnott committee and the fact that the Arbuthnott report seems to have stuck to it rigidly—some people are not so rigid when they are compiling a report. The BMA's submission states:\"A major drawback of the Review is that it does not address the chronic overall underfunding of the National Health Service in Scotland. We realise that this was not its remit, but consider it as a missing material factor.\"All that Arbuthnott deals with—this is the point where I cannot get excited about Arbuthnott—is the moving around of £70 million; it is not about spending more. You indicated clearly, minister, that the Arbuthnott report is not the full picture. Are you prepared to spend more on health, given the need?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 285284,
      "EditedText": "I want to pull back the discussion to the specifics of the Arbuthnott review. I will allow members a bit of leeway, because I know that Kay wants to ask a supplementary on the issue that we have been discussing, but can we keep that as tight as possible? We have many other issues—rurality, unmet need, health inequalities and so on—to get through. We have about 15 minutes to do that. Kay, will you put your supplementary quickly, so that we can go to Malcolm?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 285285,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about redistributing about 2 per cent of the national health service budget in Scotland. I agree that it is good that we are looking to address the health inequalities. However, this report would reallocate a very small portion of the health service budget. Does the minister think that such a small shift will halt or start to reverse current trends? As she knows, the gap between the rich and poor is widening. Do you really think, minister, that this reallocation will make a significant difference in tackling poverty and ill health?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 285291,
      "EditedText": "You have made some specific points, but I will say that, in general, you and other members have illustrated precisely the sorts of areas in which we welcome input from others, not least from the committee.We must recognise that this is just one piece of the jigsaw. I stress that we are open to contributions, although we are looking for solutions that are consistent with our overall policy objectives, which I have outlined.In some respects, the committee has an advantage over me on possible adjustments for inequalities. As you know, work on inequalities has been done since the production of the report; there was a recognition that this was a complex, novel and innovative area, on which the review group wanted to do more work. I have not yet formally received the results of that work. As I said in my submission to the committee, we intend, because of the novel nature of the work, to put the group's specific proposals on inequalities adjustments out for a further month's consultation at the end of the review exercise.The convener referred to the thinking behind the scenes. As we welcome input, some of our thinking on this area is very much in front of the scenes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 285293,
      "EditedText": "On ensuring that resources are spent to meet need, I recognise—as I said at the very beginning—that the scope of the review is solely to consider how the overall cake is divided up, as opposed to how health boards spend money locally or, as members have mentioned, how other agencies in turn allocate resources.I will not spend time going into those wider areas again. I believe that it is right and proper that the starting point of central Government is to consider how to allocate a substantial sum—almost a third of this Parliament's budget—according to need. Thereafter, we need to think about how needs are met on the ground. That is not to say that mechanisms are not in place to address our priorities. As part of the accountability process, health boards are required to say what they are doing to address health inequalities locally, and so on. However, I am sure that we could introduce better arrangements locally. When we launched this document we said—and we said it to health boards during the consultation process—that we were open to ideas about how to extend this approach and methodology into our localities. The right starting point is to think about the national allocation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 285294,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of questions on health boards—on their accountability and the openness of their decision making, for example—which relate to what you have just said. Yesterday, the witness representing the health councils made some good points. Are health boards necessarily the best building blocks for the resource allocation process? Is the health board level the level of critical mass? I do not expect you to answer questions on that as I am keen to move the committee on to other issues, particularly to rural and remoteness factors in the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 285296,
      "EditedText": "Those are important questions. In the report, Sir John suggested the idea of a standing committee that could monitor the formula. We are open to the idea that the formula and its effects should be effectively monitored. Moreover, there is a need to adjust it to take account of developments in precisely the sort of areas that we have discussed today. I would welcome the thoughts of the committee on what the standing committee should look like and how it could carry out that work.We must ensure that we do not put in place a rigid arrangement that cannot be adapted to suit future needs. We must strike a balance between flexibility and stability, within the service generally and within health board areas, to ensure that there is not continual uncertainty about resource allocation. As long as we get that balance right, the idea of a regular review is eminently sensible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 285300,
      "EditedText": "I will make your question even longer by asking Duncan Hamilton to come in with something in the same vein."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 285301,
      "EditedText": "I want to look at some of the losers in this game. The point about island communities was made strongly yesterday. I would be interested to know whether you think that they have been fairly treated by the application of a fairly rigid formula. The submission by Shetland Health Board—if you have not read it, I recommend that you do—outlines clearly some of the problems of this formula. In particular, I would like to know whether you think that there is a critical mass in population size which leads to disproportionate swings.My second question is about mainland health boards with island communities. They seem to have fallen through the net of the formula. I am thinking in particular of places such as Argyll and Clyde. They have 26 inhabited islands, but there is no additional allocation to match that need. I would like your comment on that.I would also like to back up what Mary said about general medical services. In many ways our points are the same, so you should be all right to cover them. I would be interested to know whether you think that the reduction in GPs is an acceptable state of affairs. You seem to suggest that everyone is winning, when clearly they are not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 285310,
      "EditedText": "We have to be very careful here. I do not have the exact figures to hand, but it is true to say that there are transfers of patients across different parts of Scotland and across different parts of the United Kingdom, which is where we get benefits from working on a co-operative basis across the UK. However, when that happens, mechanisms are in place so that a transfer of resources takes place to match that. If the suggestion has been made in the committee that those mechanisms are insufficient, or if other problems have been brought to your attention, I would be pleased to hear about them. You have obviously heard a lot of useful information from a wide range of people over the past couple of days, and we are happy to look at that. I will read the committee minutes with great interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Woods: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 285316,
      "EditedText": "We believe that the data that have been used in the report for those groups are representative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 285317,
      "EditedText": "Do you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 285320,
      "EditedText": "I return now to the other questions that were raised. If I have correctly understood the question about the wider health improvement and public health dimension, the short answer is that it cannot be an either/or. We cannot focus on just one area and make funding changes further down the line. Conversely, we cannot make funding changes and then—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 285328,
      "EditedText": "We will give them to you today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 7548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 285329,
      "EditedText": "The other reason for the minister's presence today is to revisit the problem of amnesic shellfish poisoning. I will ask the minister to move the motion before us. We have debated similar instruments, so I do not intend to have a debate on this one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 7548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 285330,
      "EditedText": "We are all learning by the day about our new procedures, but I understand that there is a requirement that I am present to move the motion formally, therefore I will simply do that. I move,"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/110)",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 285331,
      "EditedText": "That the Parliament's Health and Community Care Committee in consideration of the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/110) recommend that the Order be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285332",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/110)",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 285332,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285333",
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    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/110)",
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 7548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 285333,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order, convener. This SSI came before us with plenty time for us to consider it, which was refreshing. However, I would like the minister to take back to the department that, in the past, some SSIs have been put before us that have been in effect; with others, we have had such short notice that we have not had time to consider them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 285337,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of other points to discuss with the committee. I suggest that we now suspend the public session and go into private session. We will discuss some housekeeping points about finalisation of witnesses and how we will produce the report. Interruption.One of the matters that I want to discuss is the possible reduction in GP practice level that is mentioned in the BMA submission.Immediately after this meeting, I have a meeting with representatives from Unison who want to speak to us about pay. Members are invited to attend that meeting.Do members have any further questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 285338,
      "EditedText": "Lothian Health made quite a thing about how it could lose out, cross-boundaries. Could we ask for an expanded written submission on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 285339,
      "EditedText": "I would prefer to have an expanded written submission from Lothian Health rather than that we go down the route of listening to all winners or losers. The two boards that we heard from, Shetland and Glasgow, have their views on their own allocations, but they also added something to our thoughts on the impact of remoteness and on deprivation and the urban picture. Part of the reason that I decided to go for Shetland and Glasgow was because they could bring a wider impact to our discussions. We will return to this point when we decide on further submissions.Duncan, did you have a question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 285341,
      "EditedText": "Before the point at which I asked those questions, I had kicked the minister off with the question on transparency. Apart from that, I asked no other questions during the session. By the time we reached the end of the questioning process, everyone had had a chance to ask some questions.Duncan's first point is absolutely right. We did not have enough time with the minister. The minister gave very lengthy answers to our initial questions and I agree that, at one point, her response tended towards being a party political broadcast. Possibly I should have jumped in and stopped her, but it was difficult to do so at that stage in the proceedings. I was mindful of the fact that we had a range of issues to get through and I wanted to ensure that we had covered all the issues that we spoke about earlier this morning. Unfortunately, Duncan, you were not able to be with us when we had that discussion. I also wanted to ensure that everyone got a chance to ask a question. I know that that is not a perfect situation, but it meant that by the end of the session, all the points that people had discussed in advance had been covered.Mr Hamilton indicated disagreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 285343,
      "EditedText": "Margaret, with respect, I think that you are confused. We can raise an issue with one opening question—that goes on record as a question—but today the answers were, frankly, evasive or entirely vague. The point of the exercise is that one can pursue the matter until a proper answer is given or one can at least highlight the fact that there is not going to be an answer, but that did not happen today. I suggest that, if we are to undertake this exercise at all, we should do it in proper depth. Either the minister gives us adequate time to pursue these subjects in depth or we restrict ourselves further and tackle a couple of subjects well. As far as I am concerned, this meeting was a complete mishmash—a complete joke."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 285345,
      "EditedText": "The way in which the meeting was run meant that I started at about a minute and a half to 12 o'clock and was told that the minister finished at 12. Yesterday, I raised many points of concern that people had taken the time to tell us about. Like other members of the committee, I read through the papers, which contained genuine points of concern—they were not party political points. I was quite insulted when the minister came in. I agree with Duncan Hamilton: as a committee, we all leave our political hats behind. We work extremely well as a committee and do not need the minister to insult our good working relationships. I am pleased to make that remark on the record. I felt that the minister scornfully dismissed much of what was said. I am frustrated to end up with a list of points of which hardly any were adequately addressed—I leave this meeting with more questions than answers. I feel not only that she has done a disservice to this committee but that the committee has done a disservice to those who gave us these submissions and who raised their concerns at yesterday's meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 285348,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to be too party political, but it is becoming unavoidable. There are two questions. The first concerns how the minister conducted herself; the second concerns how we conducted ourselves. We should deal with those separately. The next meeting that the minister will attend, on 17 November, will be different. That meeting is what we should address, as she will be in a different position. We must bear in mind the fact that she is in the middle of consultation. The minister was asked about Shetland, but she is not bound to defend the allocation of money to Shetland. Members must give her the benefit of the doubt. She is conducting a consultation programme. If we make a good case for Shetland, or for anything else, we are likely to win the day. She was not here to defend everything in the Arbuthnott report and we should have borne that in mind—and perhaps some of us should have been more aware of it at the beginning. She is consulting on a report that has been prepared by someone else, so I do not agree with Duncan Hamilton that she had at this point to express an opinion on Shetland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 285350,
      "EditedText": "I do not share members' condemnation of the minister on that point. However, I agree with Duncan Hamilton on the way in which we conduct ourselves. The next key meeting will be the one that the minister attends, which will provide us with the opportunity to pursue issues, although we will want to question other people as well. Perhaps we should adopt a habit—without being too mechanistic about it—of allowing all members to ask three supplementary questions, or some such principle, as long as we discipline ourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 285351,
      "EditedText": "The next time the minister comes, we should be able question her for three hours, which would give members long enough to pursue issues as far as they want. Usually, I try to allow members to pursue a line of questioning until they nod in my direction to signal that they have finished and that they are happy. On this occasion, I was not able to do so. Today, I was aware that there were many aspects that we were still not addressing, and I was probably too nice to the minister. I let her go on a bit too much at the beginning and then made comments about the time that we had left and the need to get through things. There is a difference between having an hour of someone's time and having three hours of their time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 285365,
      "EditedText": "We want discipline."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 285366,
      "EditedText": "I am not going to be defensive about this point. Today, we were meant to start at 9.45 am, but we were only just quorate then. We were about to question the minister—someone else was coming in before that. We all have reasons why we do not attend committee meetings bang on time—I am not always on time—but at the beginning of today's meeting we were discussing how we would approach the questioning of the minister as a committee. The majority of the committee was not here to discuss that. It is very difficult, in the middle of something else—we were tackling Greater Glasgow Health Board, whose representatives I had to give due respect—to spend my time going back and forward to the members of the committee who were not able, for whatever reason, to be here on time. I attempted to parcel out questions to people who had arrived late, because that was the only way in which to do it; once you have established that some members are going to ask certain questions, the meeting will work only if you give other members different questions. That was a major problem for me this morning. I did not expect to arrive at 9.45 am and find that the meeting was in danger of not being quorate when we were going to meet the minister.I accept 110 per cent the point that I could have been far more robust with the minister and I will learn from it. We learn about so many things as we go along. Several weeks ago, I told members that I would make mistakes; I made one this morning. I cannot accept that members of the committee who do not turn up at the beginning of a meeting—when we are discussing our tactics for taking evidence—will, later in the day, say that we did not take the right approach to questions to the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 285368,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but as the convener, first and foremost I am an individual. It is not my style to be robust just for the sake of it. I would rather ensure that, as and when everybody is here for a meeting, they have their chance to say something; I also want to ensure that we cover the breadth of issues that we identified in advance. Many of those issues were identified as a result of the submissions and comments of members. We were not able to pick up on some of the detailed points, but we had only one hour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 285373,
      "EditedText": "Do we all agree?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 285376,
      "EditedText": "Good. I will e-mail members this afternoon to request details of their further questions. We will have to be quick to meet the Arbuthnott consultation deadline."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 285377,
      "EditedText": "I have had a verbal assurance from the Executive that the deadline has been extended until 22 November. That would allow us to discuss our submission on 3 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 285378,
      "EditedText": "Is the BMA coming to give evidence at that meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 285380,
      "EditedText": "What about the unions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 285382,
      "EditedText": "I am very surprised about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 285201,
      "EditedText": "It is undoubtedly the case that an awful lot of our work involves working with other agencies on a wider agenda than just health care services. That is a real issue for us, but it is a different issue from working out a national formula for allocating NHS resources around the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 285195,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that submission. Dorothy, do you want to kick off with the questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 285196,
      "EditedText": "Yesterday, the representative of the Scottish Association of Health Councils said that she believed that Sir John Arbuthnott's original remit was far too narrow in that it just spreads around an existing pot of money without suggesting where fresh money might be found. Do you agree with that view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 285203,
      "EditedText": "In broad terms, that is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 285206,
      "EditedText": "There has to be one formula to deal with the challenge of how to distribute the money that the Executive allocates to the national health service. That formula has to be sufficiently statistically robust to handle that, which is why Arbuthnott talked about building up the formula. If we had lots of different formulae, arguments about the fairness of the allocation of resources would never end.Do not underestimate the potency of that issue. People will spend a lot of energy arguing over small variations in a formula and will be distracted from the more important need to focus on how well resources are being used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285213",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 285213,
      "EditedText": "Do not GPs have data that would be helpful in that respect?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285215",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 285215,
      "EditedText": "So, to address that problem, do you feel that we require the GPs to keep a much more comprehensive list of patients' problems than they do at the moment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 285222,
      "EditedText": "An allocation formula could actually take that into account in its make-up. The technical report defines the factors that make up the overall formula, and that could have been included in it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 285224,
      "EditedText": "Apparently our experts cannot speak, but I am allowed to speak for them. Is that not nice? It is absolutely ridiculous, but hold on a minute while I consult the oracle. No, this is silly. John will answer the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 285226,
      "EditedText": "That starts to kick in when we look at the rurality adjustment for hospitals. The economies of scale argument says that central belt populations tend to be served by large hospitals that should be reaping economies of scale and should be more efficient."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 285229,
      "EditedText": "I could probably spend the rest of the hour saying where the gaps are. To start with, we know nothing about the quality of care. All these data assume is that a bed-day is a bed-day is a bed-day, and that there is no significant difference by outcome. Speaking generally, we think that the data for acute hospitals are fairly robust, and the hospital data sets are fairly robust. The system used for general practitioners—the so-called continuous morbidity records data set, which I am sure you will have covered yesterday—is not a comprehensive data set: it uses spotter practices around the country. We certainly feel that that could be improved in terms of its coverage of the most deprived populations. The GP prescribing data set is also a fairly good one. The community data set, which we will come to in a few minutes, is a very weak one at present, with data from a small selection of trusts that are not necessarily representative of the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285235",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 285235,
      "EditedText": "On rurality, as Chris Spry emphasised, we accept absolutely the principle that a population that is geographically scattered should receive more money in a fair-share allocation than a geographically concentrated urban population. We want to do more work on the community and general medical services adjustments, but our real concern is on hospitals. It is in that connection that I said that we had a couple of detailed criticisms. One of the things that I considered, in terms of proof of economies of scale across hospitals, was the data set that was used—were things such as case mix adjusted for, for example? The data set was quite truncated, in that small hospitals were left out on the ground that their costs, over time, were not reliable enough to be able to base policy on them. The larger teaching hospitals were also left out, because their costs are so difficult to adjust for. I wonder how representative that truncated data set was of the range of hospitals in Glasgow. That is the sort of thing I meant when I talked about detailed criticisms. I have thought of a few more since, but I will not burden the committee with further details now. Our concern, when we see a smaller rural board that does not have a high level of deprivation getting roughly the same allocation per head as Greater Glasgow Health Board, which has an intensive concentration of deprivation, is whether the rurality adjustment has gone too far. However, I would have to get right into the nitty-gritty of the adjustments that were carried out if I were to go beyond saying that. This might be a good place to pause before we try to tackle the question on health promotion, or shall I keep going?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 285236,
      "EditedText": "Is your question on health promotion, Dorothy-Grace?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 285237,
      "EditedText": "I want to mention something about health promotion, but I also wanted to come in on rurality—which is a dreadful word. We mean rural areas. Let us try to use English occasionally. The major schemes in Glasgow are quite remote. I am sure that you would agree that a major scheme is as distant from some essential services as some outer villages in rural areas. We need to get rid of the problem about distance—it is a mindset. People in those areas often have little cash to use a bus to go very far. Yet, Greater Glasgow Health Board has closed three out of four day psychiatric units near the east end, where demand for mental health services is higher."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 285238,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy-Grace, will you please get to your point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 285241,
      "EditedText": "Can we go back to the health promotion issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 285243,
      "EditedText": "You have indicated that greater Glasgow is diverse in population spread and deprivation. The Greater Glasgow Health Board is allocated a sum—can you indicate how your method of disbursal of those funds measures the socio-economic deprivation levels in Glasgow and how that would alter, should Arbuthnott be implemented as it stands?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 285245,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, Greater Glasgow Health Board has a large daily influx of people to the west of Scotland from the east. How does the health board allocate funds to deal with such issues? That influx will not always be to the acute sector, but might be in the form of a need to call out a general practitioner, for example. I found nothing in the Arbuthnott report about dealing with the transient population. That is an issue, especially in cities, but the west of Scotland and Ayrshire also have a large influx, particularly during July and August."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 285246,
      "EditedText": "That is dealt with in several different ways. If patients are admitted to hospital as in-patients or as out-patients, there are arrangements whereby the trusts in Glasgow must negotiate with neighbouring health boards, say what the cost of treating people from those health boards' areas has been and ask them for the money. Year after year, they end up saying that they have treated more of the other health boards' patients than they did the previous year and that they must be given more money by those other health boards. That problem is solved between the individual trusts and neighbouring health boards.There are two main exceptions. The first is patients attending accident and emergency departments. Greater Glasgow Health Board pays for those patients, regardless of where they have come from. The second main exception is in treatment of sexually transmitted diseases, because it is important that there are no barriers to people accessing those services where they want to access them.A slightly different issue relates to what Margaret Jamieson said about transient populations— whether we have a sufficient grasp of the numbers, distribution and needs of homeless people and people who move frequently from one living place to another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 285248,
      "EditedText": "When we do those exercises, we always apply the national formula to Glasgow, and we have applied the old SHARE formula to sectors of the city. I know that Arbuthnott advises against applying the formula below health board level, but we feel that we are large enough to do that. Even if we divide Glasgow into north and south along the line of the Clyde, there are still sectors that are bigger than some health boards' areas.Once the consultation is over and we know for certain what will be in the Arbuthnott formula as it is applied to health boards, we will co-operate with colleagues in the management executive to get the data, to see how that money would be split north and south of the river."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 285250,
      "EditedText": "We would use the same measures that the Arbuthnott formula does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 285252,
      "EditedText": "We use the Carstairs index."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Forbes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 285253,
      "EditedText": "You use the Carstairs index as opposed to single indicators. Are you content with its use in the studies that you have conducted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chris Spry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 285254,
      "EditedText": "It is an index with which people are now familiar. Broadly, those who need to understand it, do. It provides a means of comparison from one place to another, and we find it useful. For years, Glasgow would have argued that its scale of deprivation was such that the formula for allocation should be different, and it would have argued the issues of inequalities of health and so on. Intellectually, those arguments have been won and the issue now comes back to us. How do we tackle inequalities in health in Glasgow? It is no good our saying that a significant proportion of the population is in deprivation categories 6 and 7—we must target. One of the things that we have done is to cluster the postcodes in Glasgow into four more or less equal cohorts. From that we have found significant differences in Glasgow, with things such as breastfeeding, premature mortality and so on. We are using the clustering of postcodes in Glasgow as a way of focusing on differences in the region."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 285257,
      "EditedText": "On the difficulties with unmet need, the community services data methodology presents substantial problems. You say:\"The community services element of the formula has significant problems and should not be implemented as it stands.\"That is a fairly strong statement. It is not a question of tinkering around with it for a couple of weeks and then bringing it in anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 285260,
      "EditedText": "No. So, despite the fact that the other services element would not have been tackled at that stage, if the other matters that you mentioned were taken into account, you would feel that you could move forward, with the caveat that the current unmet needs work had also been tackled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 285264,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 285265,
      "EditedText": "I call the committee to order. We have the Official Report of yesterday's meeting, which will be useful—it is everybody' s weekend reading.I welcome the minister again to the Health and Community Care Committee. We all know who you are, Susan, but it will be worthwhile for you to introduce the people with you and tell us what their role is.The minister will remember that her office requested that we consider the Arbuthnott review early on and put in a submission as part of the consultation process. Sir John Arbuthnott also asked this committee formally in the letter he sent with the copies of the review, to consider it. We are, therefore, examining this very important review of resource allocation for the national health service in Scotland.Please introduce the people with you, and give us a short submission, after which we will ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 285273,
      "EditedText": "Do you think there is enough flexibility for that innovation within Arbuthnott's recommendations? A lot of the information concerns the historic utilisation of services, whereas what we want is change in many of those services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 285274,
      "EditedText": "Before the minister answers that, I ask Margaret Jamieson to ask a question as well. The minister could answer both questions together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 285266,
      "EditedText": "I am very pleased that the committee has responded so positively to our request to look at the Arbuthnott review fully and carefully. We consider the review to be an important development. In a moment, I will say more from the Executive's point of view about the background to the review and some of its key elements. I have with me Dr Kevin Woods, who is the director of strategy and performance management for the management executive in the Scottish Executive health department. He was also chair of the expert group for the review committee. He will be happy to answer points of detail about the review exercise. We are joined by Mike Palmer and Alasdair Munro from the health department, who have also been involved in the review.At the outset—I hope that this is in keeping with the committee's needs and expectations—I want to place the Arbuthnott report in the context of the Executive's wider health policy. I am conscious of the fact that committee members rightly spent all of yesterday and a chunk of this morning on the detail of the report. From my point of view, it is important that the report is seen in the broader context of Executive policy. I will concentrate on that in my opening remarks, although it will be for members of the committee to decide what to question me on. The origins of the report date back to \"Designed to Care\", which was published in December 1997. As members will know, \"Designed to Care\" was a milestone document that set out a new future and a new way forward for the NHS in Scotland. The white paper's commitment to a review of the existing funding arrangements for the NHS in Scotland was just one element—albeit an important element—of the changes. A lot has happened since the review was initiated; not least the creation of the Scottish Parliament, the appointment of the Scottish Executive and the change in health ministers. When the report was presented to the Executive, we inherited it as work that had been commenced under the previous Administration. I was pleased to be able to receive the report because it is in line with the Executive's general emphasis on health policy. It represents another important step forward in completing the implementation of \"Designed to Care\". I often say, in relation to \"Designed to Care\", other strategy documents and white papers, that we have inherited a great number of positive policy documents upon which to base much of our thinking as a new Scottish Executive. However, we are now moving into the implementation phase of many of those policies and this is an important part of the implementation of the \"Designed to Care\" jigsaw. It is important to see the Arbuthnott review in the context not only of our wider policies on health but of our policies on social inclusion and of our commitment to recognise and address the needs of rural communities, about which I will say more. I appreciate, convener, that you will have considered this point in some detail, but it is worth reiterating why a review was suggested. The existing SHARE formula, which is still used for the allocation of health service resources, is more than 20 years old. We believe that the formula served a useful purpose but that it is in great need of replacement. It was essentially population based and did not take account of wider need, particularly the needs associated with deprivation and the delivery of health care in rural and remote settings. As members know, having considered the review in some detail, it is very detailed and technical. The Executive wishes to endorse some of its key features and principles. The review proposes a way of examining the allocation of health service resources across Scotland that is fairer than the current arrangements, that identifies and addresses need more effectively than the current arrangements and that, in particular, addresses the needs of deprived communities and rural areas. The way in which it does that is based on evidence and is open and transparent. Those elements, individually and combined, make the report a genuinely innovative and groundbreaking exercise. The other key point that I want to emphasise concerns the area in which the Arbuthnott review links in with the Executive's core commitments—health inequalities. As you know, that issue has already been debated in the chamber, but I want to reiterate the Executive's position. Not only do we recognise the existence of inequalities in health; we want to do something about them. We do not want just to identify need; we want to meet need. Part of that is about examining how we allocate the considerable sum of money that we distribute throughout the NHS in Scotland. I stress that tackling health inequalities is part of a broader agenda for the Executive. The commitments set out in \"Making it work together: A programme for government\" and the principles in the public health white paper endorsed by the Parliament last month, are part of a wider picture of how we will address health inequalities. The activities of my colleagues in other departments are also part of that picture and part of the wider social inclusion agenda of the Scottish Executive. Having described the broader policy framework, I want to mention a few key points about the Executive's approach to the review. First, I want to thank the review group, and Sir John Arbuthnott in particular, for the work that has been done. I am sure that committee members agree that a very comprehensive piece of work has been conducted. That a review group involving people inside and outside the NHS and people with a wide range of expertise and experience has developed this process over 18 months is an important achievement in itself. The fact that the process is now being taken forward through a consultation period in an open and transparent way is also important. That is no accident. The Executive deliberately aims to replace a funding formula that has been in place for 20 years. We want to make changes that will serve us well now and in the future and we will ensure that we do that with the involvement and engagement of people throughout the NHS in Scotland and of the Parliament itself.It is worth pointing out that, when the SHARE formula was introduced some 20 years ago, there was not, as far as I am aware, a great deal of consultation or involvement. The process was imposed at that time. The fact that we are consulting widely on this matter is indicative of our desire to ensure that we engage in a wider discussion on the future of NHS health policy and funding policy. We all like to talk about distinctive Scottish solutions for distinctive Scottish problems. I believe that this is one example among many of how we are translating that rhetoric into reality. We are very much ahead of the game compared with other parts of the UK in this policy area—and probably in others too. It is distinctively Scottish and the methodology and approach that have been adopted in the overall exercise will affect the way in which we develop the NHS in Scotland.It is understandable that, in discussions about funding, the implication of funding decisions for individual health board areas arises. I want to make a couple of points very clear. First, I will reiterate for the avoidance of doubt a point that I am sure the committee is aware of. The new formula is about the allocation of the overall NHS cake. It is not about the size of the cake, although I shall say something about that in a moment. Neither is it about how individual health boards choose to slice up their slices of the cake. It is about how we distribute the pot of overall NHS spending. As you know, the proposed new formula covers about 80 per cent—or more than £4 billion—of NHS resources. Any change in the funding formula will have consequences for the proportions of the overall NHS cake that individual health boards receive. However, because we are making changes to the funding formula during a period of growth in the health service in Scotland, I have been able to give health boards the commitment—which I shall repeat here—that every individual health board will receive a real-terms growth in expenditure for the lifetime of this Parliament. We can do that by levelling up. We have made no secret of the fact that there will be different rates of growth in different health board areas, but there will be real growth in every health board area. I have given that very important assurance to health boards and reiterate it to the committee today.I am aware that the committee wants to maximise time and ask me questions, so, although I would like to say more, I will restrict myself for now. However, I will say that, although we are pleased that there is a full and open consultation process and will carefully consider the inputs from that process—including this committee's contribution—we believe that the report and its methodology represent a significant step forward and are very much in keeping with the Executive's broader approach. On that note, convener, I will take any questions that the committee might have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 285276,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that the voluntary sector was mentioned in that broader context. All too often, we speak of the NHS and social services but forget that the third important element of care is the services that the voluntary sector can provide. In any discussion about funding, several different prongs emerge. The first concerns the level of funding; the second concerns the methods by which funding is allocated and spent—which is the area that Margaret Jamieson has touched on; and the third concerns how those resources are used, whichever agency is using them. There have been increases—significant increases in many cases—in NHS, social work and voluntary sector spending. However, simply increasing expenditure is not enough.The Arbuthnott report is crucial in ensuring a robust and fair way of allocating money to the NHS. Whatever other changes take place, now or in the future, in the relationships between different agencies or in funding structures, the Scottish Executive will still be required to allocate a considerable sum of money to the NHS in Scotland. The fact that we have a formula that allows us to do that more fairly, and on the basis of need, is important.As for how the resources are used—there are also structural concerns—I repeat two points, in scratched record mode, in most meetings with external organisations throughout the country. In many areas, far more can be done within existing structures and financial arrangements to ensure that seamless care is provided. I believe that absolutely and fundamentally. I repeat the point I made earlier: when I see examples of innovation and success, that illustrates to me that that can be achieved where people are willing to make it happen.The other thing that I say to individuals and groups throughout the country is that it is important to identify where there are barriers in the system that stand in the way of the provision of seamless and integrated services, which can be removed only through our actions at a national level. That discussion—that investigation or evaluation—is a live and continuing process. So much structural change has been made in recent months that it would be quite wrong for us to jump head first into more changes. A lot of the changes, for example putting the primary care trusts and the local health care co-operatives in place—I know I am talking in an NHS context again—are important developments. The new arrangements for joint investment funds are in place at a very early stage of development. We have to see how a lot of those arrangements work out, and do more—we are doing more—to examine what is happening and what is working on the ground, including the work on the monitoring and evaluation of the community care action plan. Pooling a lot of that information will help us address, first, what can work at a local level and how we can disseminate that good practice across the country and, secondly, what we need to do at a national level to make the arrangements work better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 285280,
      "EditedText": "Right. Could I further ask how much more you consider needs to be spent on health in Scotland, above and beyond whatever shifting around you may do under Arbuthnott?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 285281,
      "EditedText": "I hope that I can be forgiven, convener, for repeating one or two points that I made earlier, although I will try to add other information. I wish to make this crystal clear again—it has been debated in the Parliament—that we have now entered a period of record investment in the NHS in Scotland. This year, for the first time, more than £5 billion is being spent on the NHS in Scotland. Over the next three years, we are seeing a 20 per cent increase in cash terms within the NHS in Scotland, which averages out as a real-terms increase of around 3.7 per cent per year across the NHS. That is real additional investment; it is real money. We are now spending almost £1,000 per man, woman and child in Scotland on the NHS. We are also spending in the region of 20 per cent more per head of population than is spent in England. That is real additional money. Is it enough? No. There will never be enough money, no matter which Government is in power and no matter how much it spends. Nye Bevan, the architect of the NHS, said when the health service was founded that it would never meet need, that demand would always exceed capacity, that people would always be demanding more and new innovations from the service and that it was right and proper for it to seek always to improve and develop. When we talk about NHS spending, it is important that we put it in that context. I feel that sometimes there is an inference that a magic wand can be waved and that we can pull a number out of the air, saying, \"Here's the money, here's the allocation—all the problems are fixed.\" That is simply not so. As I said earlier—Interruption. I know that there other questions, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 285282,
      "EditedText": "I am aware of the time factor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 285283,
      "EditedText": "May I reiterate the point that I made earlier? We must also consider how we spend the money. Already, £100 million has been saved through the reorganisation of the NHS—by the abolition of the internal market—and put into patient care. Action has been taken to examine how we provide joined-up, seamless services, reduce some of the inefficiencies in the system and give better patient care. By all means, let us talk about resources, but let us put them in context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 285286,
      "EditedText": "I am bound to say that my answer to that question is very similar to my answers to previous questions. I think that this report represents a significant step towards addressing and meeting need. The fact that this Government is willing to say that health inequalities exist and have to be identified and addressed is significant in itself. This exercise has allowed an independent group to come up with a way of doing that. We are putting our money where our mouth is.Of course, I do not think that the reallocation will solve all the problems. Nothing that is done in health alone could achieve that. As I said at the outset, the needs that exist in our country, particularly in our deprived communities, cannot be addressed by NHS spending alone. They have to be tackled by the prevention, as well as the treatment, of ill health, and across the range of this Executive's policies—in housing, in training, in education and elsewhere. I can say only that this report is an important part of our strategy. There is no way that it or any exercise like it could be a solution in itself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 285287,
      "EditedText": "But do you think that the Arbuthnott report will halt the current trend towards a widening of the gap between rich and poor in terms of poverty and ill health? Will it do anything to address that problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 285290,
      "EditedText": "Everybody is pleased that Arbuthnott has taken account of so many indicators of deprivation, but there are two outstanding issues. The first is unmet need. From what Sir John Arbuthnott said yesterday, it is obvious that he intends to make an allowance for that as well.Related to that is our concern—which we have expressed at various points in the inquiry—that additional money that is set aside to deal with unmet need should be targeted correctly. That is not something that the Arbuthnott report could address. How do you intend to deal with Arbuthnott's further recommendations? Are you confident that you have the mechanisms to ensure that health boards target the new inequality money in the right way? It may be too early to say this, but would you consider other mechanisms for spending inequality money, if we can call it that? Is there a case for not redistributing everything to health boards, but holding back money for central allocation to specific work in the deprived areas? Is that one of the options that you might consider, or is it too early to say?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 285292,
      "EditedText": "It was not a loaded comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 285302,
      "EditedText": "I will do my best to be as succinct as I can. We could sit here until this time next week and still be having healthy debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 285303,
      "EditedText": "We feel that we have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 285304,
      "EditedText": "I will take Duncan Hamilton's points first. If he, or any other member of the committee, has substantive reservations about any element of the report, its recommendations or the formula, then now is the time to record them. That is why we are having a four-month consultation process. That is why we have something like 8,500 copies of this document in circulation across the country. We are open to hear points being made, be they by individual health boards, MSPs, the parliamentary committee or other bodies who want to make substantive proposals on how the formula might be adjusted to be more effective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 285306,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is for me to have a view. It would be quite erroneous for me to prejudge the outcome of a consultation exercise by passing comment on individual elements of the formula. It is my job to say what our broad principles are. It is my job to put in place arrangements to make recommendations as to how those principles can be taken forward and needs identified and met. It is then my job to ensure that there is a full and effective discussion and debate around what, as we have agreed, is a complex terrain. We will then look very carefully at all the submissions when we receive them. To be frank, anything else would make a nonsense of consultation and MSPs would, rightly, be critical of me if I were to start passing comment on individual elements of methodology that might ultimately change as a result of the consultation process.I know that I have six other points to get through, but I want to say something about rural areas. I have just returned from a series of visits in the Highlands and Islands and I was very pleased to see at close quarters a number of issues relating to the delivery of health services in a rural setting, which served to reinforce my view that we are absolutely right to try to get better at allocating resources in a way that recognises the cost of delivering health care in a rural setting. My visits also served to illustrate to me again how innovative people have been in different parts of the country, for example, in embracing technology and ensuring that services are provided effectively.Arbuthnott and the resources in question are just one part of that jigsaw. There are also issues of service design and harnessing technology and so on. I was very pleased when I was in Orkney to be able to announce that Orkney Health Board has now moved—with in excess of £200,000 of funding from the Scottish Executive—to the final stage of a project that will look at the design of health care from general practitioner to out-patient right through to hospital, in an island setting. We have a lot of initiatives.Our commitment to addressing the needs of rural communities is absolute. If there are proposals on how we can refine these recommendations or make them better, we would be pleased to see them. That is obviously for the committee to put in its report, if it so wishes.I have to pick up on the suggestion that was made about the reduction in the numbers of GPs. I have heard that suggested elsewhere. I stress that that is not what this exercise is about—absolutely the opposite. It will be for individual health boards to address, within the framework that is in place, how local needs are addressed in local communities. There is nothing in the report that is about cutting the numbers of GPs. There are different methods of calculating need in different settings, but this is not about cutting services in any individual area. I realise that this is complex terrain, but it is important that, within that complexity, the facts are represented appropriately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 285307,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that you could—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 285308,
      "EditedText": "I think there were another three points that Mary Scanlon raised. I do not know whether you want me to say more, convener?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 285309,
      "EditedText": "Specialist services in Lothian, if you do not mind. That is a crucial issue that was raised by Lothian Health."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 285312,
      "EditedText": "I think that we can discuss that later. One of the things that I am going to say to the committee later is that we should be hearing from the BMA on this issue, so we can ask it some questions.I will use the chair's prerogative, if I possibly can, by getting in the last few words in terms of questions. I have two questions, which will have to be the final ones.We appreciate that there is a lot of data available, and some of the data are less robust than other data and methodology, but one of the things that has come through to us time and time again in submissions is that, critically, there does not seem to be the same amount of data available if you are considering primary care and community services rather than the acute services. That is obviously based on the historical background. We will be looking to the Executive to consider how we can build up the data that we require both to make this a more robust methodology and, at the same time, to improve primary care and community services.My second point is about where we are and how we can continue the consultation process and the implementation of our aims. Picking up on comments made by other people, the representatives from Greater Glasgow Health Board told us that, because of its remit, the report does not go into the promotion and prevention aspects of public health that form a growing part of the work load. A number of submissions have raised problems with community services, and that is partly because of the issue of data. There is also a question of unmet need and inequalities, which Sir John himself says requires more work.That is a pump-primed question, but the key question for me is whether we should put Arbuthnott into force and then make improvements as we go along, or whether, given some of the concerns that I have listed, we should try to do the improvements before we put Arbuthnott's formula into force. What are the trade-offs between improving the Arbuthnott formula before implementation and implementing the formula before it is improved?My other question is about the quality of data. After that, we shall bring this discussion to a close and go on to discuss shellfish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 285313,
      "EditedText": "I had almost forgotten about the shellfish.I brought Dr Kevin Woods with me but, as is my wont, I have not given him a chance to say anything. It might be helpful to ask him about the question about the quality of data."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 285315,
      "EditedText": "Such things as continuous morbidity recording are a small part of the big picture and are not necessarily representative of it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C285318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Woods: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 285318,
      "EditedText": "Indeed we do, and the technical report explains how we came to that conclusion. We understand that people are concerned that we are dealing with data that are drawn from a small number of trusts and practices. We are alive to that concern and we will be happy to consider any points that people want to make."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285319",
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    },
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 285319,
      "EditedText": "Graham Watt made some comments to us yesterday about levels of deprivation and the data that are available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 285322,
      "EditedText": "I will let Dr Woods explain a wee bit about that element of the formula. Your question touches on issues that are in some respects similar to the questions on the connections with social services and community care. We recognise that health promotion activities are not linked only to health board spend. Significant resources are channelled through the Health Education Board for Scotland, but work also goes on in schools and in community-based health projects. There are other funding routes and part of the Executive's task is to maximise the impact of all those messages and all that activity. That is a general point, but we can come to the technical aspects in a moment. I want to make one other point on the British Medical Association, in case this is my last chance to speak. It is worth noting that, as part of the Executive's consultation process, a meeting is scheduled between officials and the Scottish general practitioners committee of the BMA next week precisely to explore in detail the points that it may want to raise.Dr Woods will answer the question on health promotion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Woods: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 285323,
      "EditedText": "I think that I am correct in saying that the formal health promotion spend is subsumed within the acute block. However, we should not lose sight of the fact that much of the activity in GMS and community services is concerned with health improvement and health promotion. It is true that we want the NHS in Scotland to pay much greater attention in general to the whole issue of public health and health improvement. That is why the guidance issued to the health service by ministers encourages the development of health improvement programmes that set out clearly how improvements will be achieved. We want a greater relative share of resources to be used to support health improvement initiatives. That means working with other statutory and voluntary organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 285324,
      "EditedText": "I want to pull you back to the final bit of the question. The reason that I mentioned health promotion and the links to other services, the queries about the community services data and the point about unmet need and inequalities—which Sir John Arbuthnott, himself, raised—was to highlight the areas where people have expressed concerns to us and will, in the fullness of time, if they have not already, express them to you. There are areas of the formula that are not as robust as others or where there are problems. What is the trade-off? How do you decide whether to go ahead with something, which you know still needs a lot of work, or do the work before it is implemented?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C285325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7547,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 285325,
      "EditedText": "I reiterate that we would welcome the committee drawing together the comments that it has received as part of the submission so that we can consider them. On inequalities, I suspect that Sir John would have said, as I have, and as he has said to me, that the inequalities element of the formula is one of the newest areas of development. That brings us back to the whole issue of addressing unmet need, which is a subject on which we are open to discussion.I firmly believe that there is no such thing as perfection in any aspect of life, which applies equally to this report. I also firmly believe that it is always possible to improve things. Sometimes one cannot identify where improvements need to be made until something has been implemented, tried and one has seen how it works. We are doing as much as we possibly can through this consultation exercise, through discussions such as this one and through the review group to ensure that the resulting formula is as robust as possible. I do not believe that it will be perfect and I am sure that there will scope for future improvement, but it would be wrong for us to continue the process of analysis and review indefinitely, when we could put definite improvements in place. If the situation gets better further down the line, that is good and well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7547,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Woods: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 285327,
      "EditedText": "I will be happy to receive any questions that the committee has."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/110)",
      "HeadingID": 7548,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 7548,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 285334,
      "EditedText": "You have made your point, Ben, and we all agree that there has been a problem with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 285340,
      "EditedText": "I would like some clarification and discussion on the structure of the committee and the way in which it works. I found what we have just been through utterly infuriating, for a number of reasons. First, the length of the minister's attendance was not adequate. We all had a range of questions that we could not get through. That is particularly bad as the minister made a lengthy statement at the beginning and a party political broadcast halfway through. Frankly, that was disjointed and helped no one. One of the things that defines this committee is the fact that we tend to proceed on the basis of what is good for health, not what is good for one party.Secondly, I am concerned about members' ability not just to ask a question but to follow it through. The whole point of having a minister here is so that we can pursue our point and ensure that the minister is accountable. For example, Mary made a point about the British Medical Association, but was not allowed to ask the minister whether she agreed with the BMA; that is a nonsense. She should be able to press her point all the way, then return to it to try to highlight contradictions. That is the role of a committee.Thirdly, I am concerned about the way that this meeting has been managed. I understood that Mary and I—and others who asked questions before us—had to condense our questioning to ensure that we could fit it all in. We had been told that the minister had to leave at 5 past 12, but after that time we had 10 or 15 minutes of your questioning, convener. I am delighted for you to ask questions, but let us be fair. The position of convener does not entitle you to an additional 10 minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 285342,
      "EditedText": "You may shake your head, Duncan, but if we had gone down the route of pursuing people on particular issues beyond a certain point, we would not have been able to ask questions on other issues that we had previously agreed that we wanted to address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 285347,
      "EditedText": "Will you convey to the minister the committee's displeasure at the way in which she handled her answers to our questions, which was terribly disrespectful to the committee? She made a party political broadcast; she did not answer questions. I would like you to convey the committee's view that she indulged in evasive, political stuff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 285353,
      "EditedText": "You will have to address that, convener, as you ask questions at the beginning. Mary Scanlon had to rush through a whole series of disconnected questions with a gun at her head, so to speak, as there was only a minute and a half to go. You allowed that to happen and proceeded to take 10 or 15 minutes yourself at the end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 285354,
      "EditedText": "I took a few minutes, and the minister obviously had answers. I thought that the answers that she gave at the end were quite evasive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 285355,
      "EditedText": "All her answers were evasive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 285356,
      "EditedText": "She was dodging us all the way through."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 285359,
      "EditedText": "I accept some of the blame for what happened, because I should have come down on the minister harder and earlier. I did not really want to be unpleasant at the beginning of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 285360,
      "EditedText": "I know, and the minister is likeable. It is just that what she is doing is not likeable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 285369,
      "EditedText": "At previous meetings, convener, you kept an ordered list of members who wished to speak. That encouraged our discussion to flow, although one disadvantage was that it did not allow for supplementary questions. Perhaps we could return to that practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ID": 7549,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 285375,
      "EditedText": "It seems that we are all agreed on that. The key point is that we need access to information. Do members agree that we should submit further written questions to Dr Kevin Woods?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 285379,
      "EditedText": "The BMA will certainly be invited. Do members want us to invite any other organisations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7549,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 285381,
      "EditedText": "They were invited but have not responded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 285383,
      "EditedText": "We will leave it at that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1689
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7549,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 285384,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:48."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0703998+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 155837,
      "EditedText": "The Official Report is a substantially verbatim record of the whole proceedings, so it will be recorded if I rule something out of order. Official reporters will be in attendance throughout the meeting.The clerks have provided us with a paper on today's witnesses from Business Enterprise Scotland, the Scottish Council of National Training Organisations and the Institution of Economic Development Scotland. The clerks have suggested some lines of questioning. Are there any particular lines of questioning that members would like to highlight now, so that I know of any particular areas of interest that they may have and so that I can ensure that they have adequate time to pursue their questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 155838,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in two areas, which might be the same for other members. The first is competition between different deliverers, as referred to at the third bullet point on the first page of the paper. The second, which comes under the heading at the first bullet point,\"confirmation of their sources of funding,\"is ownership and the involvement of local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 155840,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask SCONTO about the Scottish credit accumulation and transfer scheme and about what progress is being made in linking into the national qualifications framework."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 155846,
      "EditedText": "My questions are about the policy recommendations of the convener of the Institution of Economic Development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 155849,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask one or two general questions of each witness. May I signal to you when I wish to ask one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 155850,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I am just trying to get a balanced view of the directions from which members wish to approach the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 155852,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. Members should indicate to me when they wish to speak. Those in attendance should switch off all mobile phones, and pagers should be switched to vibrate.I welcome the witnesses—from what seems like an inordinate distance away from your end of the table—to this meeting of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. The witnesses are Mr Robin Miller, Mr Gordon Smith and Ms Agnes Samuel from Business Enterprise Scotland. As you are aware, the committee is conducting an inquiry into the delivery of vocational education and business support services in Scotland. We are looking in particular at the effectiveness of those services and of the delivery mechanisms.We are grateful to you for your written submission. Mr Smith will introduce his team and make the opening remarks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155864",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Samuel: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 155864,
      "EditedText": "We have a very small number of administrative staff. It is only in the past 10 years that we have taken on an accountant. Most of our effort has been at the coalface—probably about 80 per cent of our staff work there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155861",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 155861,
      "EditedText": "In two ways. We have regular meetings with the chief executives of the trusts, at which trusts share information. Also, we take people from trust to trust to share their experience and knowledge and to help people implement programmes. For example, Agnes Samuel went to Wigtownshire and Graham Cunningham went to the Borders.We are considering common processes and technology across the trusts to manage an end-to-end process, which we do not have. Trusts want to be under this bigger umbrella, so that they can get value to the customer.Unfortunately, I cannot operate in Fife or Tayside."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155866",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 155866,
      "EditedText": "Competition has been healthy for us, so I welcome it. We experience it in business and I am very comfortable with it. We have no God-given right to be doing what we are doing; we have to prove that we are viable and that we deliver a high-quality service.Representatives of council trusts come to all our meetings. There is no antagonism across the network and there is no difficulty in our people sharing with councils. We work closely with councils in all the trusts and need a relationship with them. We are not uncomfortable about whether trusts are business led, if that is the right thing—it was the right thing when I was a member of the Edinburgh trust.We should have whatever gives the customer the best service, but we should then bring commonality of purpose and the highest capability to those channels. That is why working with people on their skill set and their focus is important. I am comfortable with different flavours of background."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 155868,
      "EditedText": "Private sector funding is important to us—partly in cash, partly in kind. I would hate that to disappear as we need it to deliver the best service.In terms of the funding that comes down to us through Scottish Enterprise and then the local enterprise companies, if we had a contract, we would have more confidence to plan ahead and to invest better. To achieve 10,000 start-ups, we will need more funding, but we will need to tell Scottish Enterprise why.The back office is not big, but we need to be able to share out funding. We need to be able to move money around to be able to do what we do. We need to improve on our side, but we will also need additional funding in some areas. I want an alliance with the banks because they have taken a lot of managers who used to work with small businesses out of their industry. As a result, the banks cannot deliver the service that they used to, which is to the detriment of companies that want to start up or that are at risk. Businessmen from the trusts are called into banks around the country to mentor small companies. We want to have access to the banks' funds, but we also want to tap into their systems on the internet and elsewhere, to help us to invest better in the business. That will be better for the banks, because they will get a better customer set as the companies' plans will be better. There are different ways of pulling things together. We are getting good funding from the banks not only across the board, but for specific projects that the banks then want to roll out across the network."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 155869,
      "EditedText": "I want to push you on the issue of competition. One aspect that we hear a lot about is the need for services to be tailored to individual clients, which is an admirable objective. On the other hand, we hear that people are confused about the number of places that there are to get services. The balance must lie somewhere in the middle. Where are we on that? You said that competition was an advantage, but I am concerned that there is too much toe-treading in the marketplace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 155870,
      "EditedText": "Competition really wakened us up, which is why it was important. The trusts had been in business for more than 20 years and had not changed. Their targets were handed out and nothing moved forward. One or two organisations delivering a different product came into the market, and that gave the whole system a shock. It was a positive thing; the fear was helpful. It acted as a catalyst for change across the trusts. I genuinely believe that we can bring real added value. I am not uncomfortable with bidding against other parties, because I believe that the added value that we build into the process is strong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 155874,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not think so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 155875,
      "EditedText": "How many enterprise trusts are there in Scotland? I am not clear about what the membership list means in terms of coverage for Scotland. Is it a good geographic spread or is it patchy? What is your effectiveness if there is a significant number of other bodies doing what you do that are not under your umbrella? Why are they not under your umbrella?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 155878,
      "EditedText": "What does that mean, Mr Smith, in terms of what you have? Is that a good spread?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 155880,
      "EditedText": "That is helpful. Thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 155882,
      "EditedText": "You say that you have an effective network in place, high client satisfaction ratings and quality in business measured by independent surveys. Who conducts such a survey, to whom do they report, and what is the relationship of the surveyors with the centre and the individual trusts? You also mentioned monitoring to eradicate bad and encourage good practice. How does that work in practice? If you discover that an enterprise trust is failing, how would you go about resolving that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 155885,
      "EditedText": "It was carried out by a firm of consultants that we engaged to do the work on our behalf. We had to approach the LECs in each trust area to get the necessary funding. It was not only the enterprise trusts that participated. If a LEC area signed up, then all the delivery organisations in that area were surveyed and a slightly broader benchmarking was involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 155886,
      "EditedText": "Margo, is your question in the same area? Margo has a voice problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 155887,
      "EditedText": "Elaine Murray and I noticed that the Scottish Council of National Training Organisations' publication of June 1998 says that there are 41 enterprise trusts. Has there been a dramatic contraction in the intervening period, or is that figure just a mistake?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 155888,
      "EditedText": "In 1998 there was a change in the delivery mechanism in Fife and three trusts were contracted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 155889,
      "EditedText": "Was that after the survey?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 155890,
      "EditedText": "At its maximum, our survey involved about 28 organisations across the LEC areas. There is an enterprise trust in Campbeltown that is not a member of this organisation and with which we have had very little contact. I do not think that it is very active. I regard our natural marketplace as being in the Scotland Enterprise LEC areas. I reckon that there are 28 natural members of BES, of whom 26 have joined. We also have one local authority member, which makes a total of 27 members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 155893,
      "EditedText": "I would like to return to the question of why you exist. What is your function, and why you do not sit naturally as an in-house unit within the local enterprise network? Why have you been separated out? Obviously, that involves extra costs: paying for boards, chairmen, back offices and so on. Why was that structure adopted? Do you believe that it delivers better performance, because it enables you to be more focused? Does that influence how much private funding you can access?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155895",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 155895,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 155896,
      "EditedText": "I did not want to paraphrase the question. I am sorry if I stole your thunder, George."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 155899,
      "EditedText": "Our boards, whose members invest much of their spare time in this work, can draw on a great deal of business experience. Our members are part of and understand the local community. That adds considerable value to what we do in terms of mentoring, assisting relationships with banks and so on. We tend to find, especially outwith urban areas, that local businessmen contribute a great deal through the enterprise trusts. Does that help?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 155901,
      "EditedText": "Our focus is on starting up and delivering successful businesses, and on helping them to grow during the initial phase. We are very skilled at doing that. The LECs, on the other hand, have a broad remit. We are a delivery channel that is focussed on successful start-ups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 155902,
      "EditedText": "Do you believe that that could not be done in-house?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 155904,
      "EditedText": "You said that about 85 per cent of your personnel work at the coalface. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C155905",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 155905,
      "EditedText": "The figure is about 80 per cent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 155907,
      "EditedText": "There is no joined-up process that links a Scottish Enterprise event in an area to our capacity to give business advice. We get a contract to deliver a number of start-up organisations. We then look to each trust to deliver the number of referrals that we need. We know how many referrals we can typically handle with the number of business advisers that we have and match that to the contract. If a Scottish Enterprise event inundated us with referrals, we could not cope because we are geared towards the existing target. The joined-up process is important because we would need more business advisers at the coalface to reach 10,000 start-ups, as we do not have the required capacity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155912",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    "Time": {
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      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 155912,
      "EditedText": "Why?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155913",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 155913,
      "EditedText": "We do not get as many referrals when the business shops are independent of the enterprise trusts."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 155914,
      "EditedText": "Is that because you do not talk to each other or because the process is not joined up well enough?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155923",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 155923,
      "EditedText": "I hope that the results that we already deliver will give you some confidence in us. We are always trying to improve those results and to find ways to bring more to the coalface. I receive good support from Scottish Enterprise and the Scottish Executive; however, we will achieve a heck of a lot more by joining up the process."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155924",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 155924,
      "EditedText": "Our thanks go to Gordon, Robin and Agnes for their participation today. We are at an early stage in the inquiry and their input is very much appreciated. The committee is mulling over a lot of evidence and will come to its conclusions in due course.I welcome Jenny Kellie, the chief executive of the Scottish Council of National Training Organisations, who has joined us for this part of the meeting. Frankly, we were spoilt for choice when trying to decide on lines of inquiry. As a result, our inquiry reflects two shared objectives: first, the delivery of economic development and business support services; and, secondly, the difficulties experienced by individuals who try to access the learning environment and what support and direction is available.After you introduce yourself with a few words about your own position, I will let Marilyn Livingstone open the questioning."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155925",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Jenny Kellie (Scottish Council of National Training Organisations): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 155925,
      "EditedText": "I was assured by Simon Watkins that the committee preferred not to have such things as overheads. Furthermore, I have to apologise. I have a very bad cold and I hope that my voice will not give out."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155928",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 155928,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I would like to think that this committee is doing its bit to recognise that skills development and business development should not be separated in our inquiry. You seemed to acknowledge that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155929",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 155929,
      "EditedText": "As you are aware, the work of the Scottish Council of National Training Organisations has brought together different organisations to produce flexibility and a common framework. I wish to address your points about the national qualifications network and SCOTCAT—Scottish credit accumulation and transfer—credits. You said that they might be the tool to remove some of the confusion in the marketplace. I also wish to explore young people starting training and in-house training.I will ask you two questions. There are targets to be reached with regard to the promotion of modern apprentices. In your role of promoting modern apprenticeships, what support have you received from national training organisations, and do you think that the qualifications framework will help people to undertake modern apprenticeships? I ask that question because SCOTCAT credits can constitute the first year of a degree. What support are you receiving for modern apprenticeships from the NTOs and universities?"
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 155930,
      "EditedText": "NTOs have to support modern apprenticeships because they are recognised by the Scottish Executive and the Department for Education and Employment for that purpose. NTOs develop the frameworks and are very concerned to get help from key partners in Scotland, such as LECs, to deliver modern apprenticeships.There is a problem with the uptake of modern apprenticeships, in that not a lot of effort has been put into promoting them on a Scotland-wide scale. The modern apprenticeships implementation group, of which we are members and which we service, is chaired by one of the LECs. The group is good and active, and endorses the frameworks for use in Scotland. It has established a promotions marketing group and is getting LECs and Highlands and Islands Enterprise to put together a war chest to improve promotion. However, extra support is needed, because the target of 20,000 modern apprenticeships requires a lot of apprentices.With regard to training credits, it is quite easy for young people who are doing, for example, a level two qualification to convert to a modern apprenticeship. At the heart of every modern apprenticeship is the fact that the apprentice must achieve at least a level three Scottish vocational qualification.On the issue of credit transfer, a lot of work remains to be done. Bodies such as the Scottish Qualifications Authority have a lot of work to do to help us. My concern about the Scottish credit and qualifications framework is that it still tends to be geared towards academic achievement. The important principle is that of fit for purpose: vocational qualifications from in-house company training are sometimes just as valid as academic qualifications—and are probably even more so in some cases. The SQA needs to do some work on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 155931,
      "EditedText": "We have been discussing the cost of education. My point is that there is a cost in someone gaining a level 3 qualification and going on to do a modern apprenticeship. I am concerned that only some universities take on board that that would exempt a student from the first year of a degree. People should see that ladder and see flexible entry and exit points. I want the committee to take that point on board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 155938,
      "EditedText": "I have to say that some of them are more experienced than others. The LECs could probably do a useful job as well.There are models. In Fife—if Marilyn will forgive me—the local authority, the LEC and us, representing the NTOs, worked together to develop a training strategy that included in-house company training. There are good models—the issue is how to spread them.There is a good model in Lanarkshire also: we, the NTOs, the two local authorities and the LEC are working together. It is—I think—called \"Learning in Lanarkshire\". It is examining how to create a hub that can provide on-line training to individuals and companies. We should gather those good models and disseminate them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 155939,
      "EditedText": "Do you agree that as the training available can depend on where a person lives and what company they work for, there is a case for a lead organisation? The question is, what organisation would that be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 155944,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it often is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 155949,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish university for industry could do all sorts of things. It could take the lead in identifying good practice and the projects that work. It could act as a national hub for local delivery of various types of training, including on-line training.There is a great danger that the university for industry will just be a telephone helpline that accesses a national database of existing provision. We have to work together to ensure that the university for industry reaches its potential."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 155951,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but it is called something else now in different places."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 155952,
      "EditedText": "We are straying off the remit. On Margo's first point, about disparate lead organisations, how does having different set-ups in different parts of the country affect cohesion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 155953,
      "EditedText": "There ought to be a skills strategy for Scotland. Hopefully, that will emerge from \"Opportunity Scotland\" and \"Skills for Scotland\".There should be a national strategy that connects with the strategies of Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise and with the NTO strategies. There is an argument for different delivery systems in different places. I work a lot with Highlands and Islands Enterprise, which has distinct circumstances—a huge area, a scattered population and the predominance of micro-businesses.Local partnerships are important. I accept that there has to be a lead agency and that because of the way in which funding is structured that agency is likely to be the local enterprise company, but I do not think that LECs should run by themselves; national training organisations, local authorities, and enterprise trusts also have a role to play. That is why the Lanarkshire and Fife models are good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 155954,
      "EditedText": "Margo has asked the question that I intended to ask about how the university for industry might change the way in which people access training. To pick up on Duncan McNeil's point, access to training is a lottery depending on where one lives, and—for people who are in work—on what company one works for. I hope that the university for industry will ensure that everybody, including people who are in work, has access to training.To what extent does your organisation represent companies that are not training companies but have very large training departments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 155963,
      "EditedText": "I think that I have good news. I hope that I have good news. In the higher still reforms and at standard grade a lot of work is being done on core skills. Pupils should come out of school with a core skills portfolio. If they were then going into modern apprenticeships and had done core skills in communications or in numeracy, they would not have to repeat those courses. At the moment, the situation is not good, but there is hope on the horizon. Current reforms in secondary education may ease that problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 155969,
      "EditedText": "They are provided by other players, but national training organisations can bring a UK perspective to the local situation, which is why the partnerships with the local enterprise companies work so well—they can work in local committees, groups and partnerships to spread good practice. There are examples in Glasgow Development Agency and Lanarkshire Development Agency of the national training organisations working with the local enterprise companies on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 155970,
      "EditedText": "Can they focus and address skill shortages in localities across sectors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 155973,
      "EditedText": "I stress again the support for a systematic approach to in-company training, especially for small and medium enterprises. We should all work together to promote that. I am grateful for this opportunity to talk to the committee."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155980",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 155980,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean that the agency would be at local enterprise company level, which would mean that there would be 12 or so such agencies throughout Scotland, or do you mean that they would exist at local authority boundary level or local enterprise trust level?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155981",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 155981,
      "EditedText": "We did not go into detail on that in the recommendations, although it was implicit that the agency would exist at LEC level. However, that will differ in different areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 155983,
      "EditedText": "He works for a council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 155984,
      "EditedText": "I work for a council, so my view might not be that LECs necessarily provide the natural boundary for such a single agency. Does size matter in this instance? I guess that there has got to be a minimum size to generate a critical mass. In some instances, that may be done at LEC level, but I contend that it could be done at a local authority level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 155989,
      "EditedText": "On the skills side, programmes need to be much simpler. There are far more rules than are really necessary. The focus should be on increasing the demand for learning, rather than on the supply side. At the moment, the vast majority of activities relate to the supply side. A major shift is required, not tweaking around the edges. We as a profession do not do much workplace training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 155990,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Jean. I am lost as to where to start, but let me begin with the economic development strategy. In some ways, I am staggered by the fact that you say in your paper:\"We recommend that a shared Scottish Economic Development strategy is prepared\"and that such a strategy is not already in existence. To what extent do you and the organisation that you represent feel that there is a lack of focus, cohesion and co-ordination in what the different agencies are doing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 155991,
      "EditedText": "My view is that economic development practitioners in Scotland are great at writing strategies, because they produce so many of them. The membership is concerned that there are many strategies, but no all-embracing and forward-looking strategic plan—it does not have to be a big one—to which the profession and organisations that are or will be engaged in economic development can sign up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 155993,
      "EditedText": "Scottish Enterprise is responsible for developing its own strategy for the Scottish Enterprise network, but has no authority over local authorities or others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 155996,
      "EditedText": "A clear distinction in your proposal is that one agency should be responsible for business development support. I assume that, if that agency were to be Scottish Enterprise, local authorities would be required to move out of direct business development and the Scottish Executive would move out of innovation issues. Organisations such as enterprise trusts would, in effect, become the small business support departments of local enterprise companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 155997,
      "EditedText": "We are not saying that the body needs to be a local enterprise company; other models could work just as effectively. There is no reason why local authorities and LECs could not set up a single business development agency between them. That would create more ownership for both parties. However, it is important that many bodies such as trusts come into the fold and become part of the same organisation. Although trusts are funded by LECs and local authorities, they often act independently and that adds—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 155998,
      "EditedText": "It adds potential confusion for customers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 155999,
      "EditedText": "The trusts get 90 or 99 per cent of their money from LECs and local authorities, anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 156000,
      "EditedText": "When you say agency, does that mean that a group of different organisations would work in partnership or that there would necessarily be an individual agency?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 156006,
      "EditedText": "When John Swinney introduced the two of you, he said that you were here in a private capacity, rather than representing the Institution of Economic Development. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 156008,
      "EditedText": "We need to be clear about this. I am confused about whether the view that is being expressed is an Institution of Economic Development view or the view of certain individuals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 156009,
      "EditedText": "My opening comments were driven by the year-long consultation process. We prepared papers and consulted with our 270 or so members. It is difficult for us to give the profession's view on matters that we have not consulted deeply on. It might be useful if we made the committee aware of which of our comments are based on consultation with the profession and which are our personal interpretation of matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 156010,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful to know if a view that has been expressed is a corporate view or a personal view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 156016,
      "EditedText": "I would like you to expand on the part about monitoring, evaluation and measurement. We heard some strong evidence from another witness this morning about the value that is added by the LEC network. He questioned whether such an evaluation has ever been done. He also questioned the cost basis of the LEC network. I would like you to expand on how we can determine whether value for money is being achieved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 156018,
      "EditedText": "How would that be delivered? The easiest measurements are the good old targets: the number of jobs created and the number of businesses talked to. That seems to drive a lot of what is done. How do you put the qualitative measurements in there? Will it cost a huge amount of money? Will it be easy to achieve? We are looking for some suggestions as to how we can make progress on this matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 156024,
      "EditedText": "Yes, please."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 156025,
      "EditedText": "Figures are provided to Scottish Enterprise—this applies to the Scottish Enterprise network—on the maximum number. It used to be tied in by number of employees. That is why we had hundreds of contractors. Contractors are allowed as well, but there is a maximum number and, more pertinently, there is a budget restriction on management and administration: only so much of the budget may be spent on salaries and headquarters and so on. That is the main constraint. If the LEC funds an enterprise trust, however, by £1 million, and they use that to fund staff, that is fine, because it comes out of a different budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 156028,
      "EditedText": "I would like to reinforce Ms Hamilton's points. We talk about business advisers, but a range of business advisers are involved in different aspects of business advice or in different types of business. It may concern start-ups or larger, small and medium enterprises. It may be difficult to come up with a single, coherent qualification standard which embraces all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 156031,
      "EditedText": "Och, the world would be a better place. We would remove unemployment and—Laughter. My interpretation of what will happen is this. Coherence would be a huge step forward. Too many people are doing different things and are sometimes in conflict. That conflict—people working against each other—should be reduced. I do not think that that will ever go, because there will always be two people in the same organisation in different departments who will do things differently.I think that the value of the single economic development strategy would be huge. It would be beneficial to agree what we are all trying to do and to focus and direct all our actions. It would be similar to major multinationals, where there is often a single objective, for example, \"Let's keep all our customers incredibly happy.\" When everyone is focused on that, our effectiveness would be improved substantially.Have you got another question? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 156032,
      "EditedText": "The same principles apply on a national level as on a local level. Let us not worry about how we define that: by LEC or local authority boundaries. It is a matter of bringing together the strategic thrust, a common vision for the local area and the connectivity of the range of organisations currently providing, or purporting to provide, services in a coherent whole at a local level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 156034,
      "EditedText": "You have just answered your own question. Different delivery mechanisms will be more effective in some areas than in others, but the goals are the same: to increase wealth and to reduce unemployment. That is why there should be a single local strategy. Each area will be different, with different companies, issues and industries, but the goal will be the same."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 156036,
      "EditedText": "In general, Scotland performs very well on education, but very badly on employee training. We compare badly with the UK as a whole, and internationally.It is hard to say how you stimulate demand. Until recently, support for employee training was not allowed. Scottish Enterprise was not allowed to carry out, or give encouragement and grants for, staff training. That is why there were all the Investors in People fudgy strategy type things rather than straight grants. Perhaps that is a bit unfair.We made some suggestions for how demand could be stimulated. One was a comprehensive advice and guidance initiative, which would apply both to individuals and to companies. It would work out what skills a person or company needed, where they could go to get training and what advice we could give to get them there. Currently, advice and guidance is restricted to young people coming through the careers service. Adult guidance is broadly restricted to those who are unemployed. There is nothing out there for those who are in employment.Another suggestion was that we could look at the internal infrastructure in companies and target people with influence, such as managers and internal trainers, who could spread the message within the company. That is a big theme throughout all the work on skills. If there was one thing that we could do, it would be to raise the skills of managers and leaders. That would have a bigger impact than anything else.We also suggested an advertising campaign. Marketing and awareness must be part of a wider strategy of stimulating demand. Changing attitudes tends to need a mixture of things to happen at the same time. In that context, some awareness raising would be valuable.I think that is all that we came up with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 156037,
      "EditedText": "I do not remember exactly what we came up with, but my professional experience of the general management capacity of smaller companies is that it is stretched, particularly in the area of identifying skills needs within the company. Bringing together the skills and business development strands would mean that smaller companies could be assessed in a more holistic way. I am not suggesting that we take on the role of human resource specialists for those companies, but at least there is scope, through company skills needs analysis, to promote and stimulate demand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C156038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 156038,
      "EditedText": "You mention in your draft policy recommendations the use of the community planning framework to achieve a co-ordinated approach. If community planning can bring the various partners together and co-ordinate an approach, why do you feel that it is necessary to identify a single agency at local level?I was very interested in the bold statements that your document contains. I am sure that we could pursue them at more length if we had time. I was interested in your recommendation to review the delivery of support to indigenous companies. I felt that Scottish Enterprise became quite defensive when questioned on that. They said that 80 per cent of their effort goes to supporting indigenous companies. What do you feel about how such companies are being supported at the moment? I know that you feel that support needs to be more targeted.I was also interested in the comment in your second document on tourism businesses:\"Support to tourism businesses should be carefully considered and only provided to those businesses who genuinely have potential . . .\"What is the thinking behind that? I also wondered how that would be assessed and how you would foresee that being developed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 156045,
      "EditedText": "Based on my professional experience, it seems to me that the community planning framework provides the overarching framework for a local economic development strategy. That can bring together the key strategic partners at local level. We suggest that there must also be a single agency that delivers business development rather than broad economic development services. That agency must inform the community planning process but the issue is delivery, not planning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 156048,
      "EditedText": "So the statement in 2.19 on your paper on structures and processes is not true—we can check it afterwards."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 156053,
      "EditedText": "Single delivery by area."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 156054,
      "EditedText": "On your question about a chartered body—I think that you were referring to business advisers and their skills—this is a diverse profession. A number of people come in with professional qualifications—chartered accountants and so on. One would have to be clear that a chartered body would add substantial value to the current processes. There is a small firms advisory NTO down south that is working in this area now. As long as business advisers are accredited, we will be happy—it does not need to be done  by us."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156055",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 156055,
      "EditedText": "This morning, we explored whether competition within the enterprise trust network was healthy. Is competition or collaboration appropriate for a single agency?"
    },
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  },
  {
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    },
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 156056,
      "EditedText": "We did not cover that, so this will be a personal view.All trusts and agencies have a geographic client group, so there is no competition for work with companies. There is competition only in terms of people saying, \"I am really good. I am doing this great thing. Give me money for a pilot.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 156061,
      "EditedText": "That is possibly good advice. I thank Jean Hamilton and David Greaves for their contribution and the Institution of Economic Development for its thought-provoking papers. We are charged with steering a course through a lot of evidence from a lot of organisations to work out something that delivers the optimum service to people and businesses in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
      "HeadingID": 3540,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 156066,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is unlikely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
      "HeadingID": 3540,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 156067,
      "EditedText": "I believe that we have been taking evidence fairly succinctly from the producers and givers of advice. We need now to talk to the recipients—the consumers—of business development advice and to ask them where they think the system has failed. I accept the basic proposition that we should move to appoint an adviser, but whomever we appoint must take on the task of getting out there and speaking to the consumers of advice to get both sides of the story on the delivery of business advice services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C156069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 156069,
      "EditedText": "Coincidentally, I read the clerks' paper just after I had visited one of the universities where I met a range of professors. It occurred to me that it might be valuable to invite some of the Scottish universities to be part of the process. They would be able to stand back and take a more independent line. They would also be able to outline what is happening in other parts of the world. They could give a more global perspective, which would counter the point that was made a moment ago about the small village. I support the idea of an adviser."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156071",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 156071,
      "EditedText": "Duncan beat me to it. I was going to suggest that we should talk to some of the principal banks, as they have people who are involved in both sides—the success and failure of economic development. They tend to have a broad view rather than the academic view. They would be able to understand what the consumers of the service go through in the process. That is one of a range of areas that we should consider."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C156072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 156072,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I have much to add to that. I support what Allan, Duncan and David are saying. It is important that we hear clearly what the consumers—the recipients of all this advice—are saying. There are many different trade associations that represent those consumers, and I hope that we will hear from some of them. We have heard from many providers of economic development, advice and training, but have not heard the other side of the story. Whoever is taken on as adviser must take that into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 156073,
      "EditedText": "Let me draw things together. The point about hearing consumers' opinion is fundamental to our inquiry. If we fail to capture that opinion, our inquiry will not address the concerns that exist. When starting an inquiry, it is much easier to go to the providers, as they are known, but we must access the opinions of consumers. The danger is that we could line up several people at the hearing in Inverness who had particular concerns about the work of enterprise companies and were quite happy to sit at the table. Whether that would take forward the debate constructively is another matter. We must capture that opinion.The point that George makes is valid; we are a small village. Even among the academic community that would be able to advise us, there are some people who are heavily involved in work for the enterprise network. We must bear that in mind.In response to Duncan's point, I had one concern about the assembly of the grid. I thought that the committee would benefit from seeing that done dispassionately, from an external perspective—through the Scottish Parliament's information centre, with additional support as its researchers are under a great deal of pressure. I will take into account the views of committee members, if they are concerned about that. There is agreement, in principle, that we should go down this route, but that the tasks should be delegated to a smaller group to develop the proposal and bring recommendations back to the committee on how it should address the issue of an external adviser and how we should tackle the gathering of information on the assessment of existing provision. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 156074,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we make that a cross-party group, with one member from each party. I shall convene that group and represent the SNP, if the committee agrees. Can members suggest who else should be in that group?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 156075,
      "EditedText": "Annabel Goldie, George Lyon and Allan Wilson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Referrals",
      "HeadingID": 3541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 505.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 156082,
      "EditedText": "I know that the grants have been paid, Simon, but where did they go? The order says that the Executive will now be permitted to issue grants to local authorities, all of which were previously barred from receiving them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Referrals",
      "HeadingID": 3541,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 156083,
      "EditedText": "The assumption is that grants would previously have gone to third parties such as consultants. However, local authorities are now allowed to take on that role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Referrals",
      "HeadingID": 3541,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 156085,
      "EditedText": "No, but we can certainly find out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Referrals",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 156088,
      "EditedText": "I have one observation, convener. The green paper's proposal imposes an absolute liability on producers. A distinction might be made on that issue between the law of delict in Scotland and the law of damages in England. The European Committee might want to take advice on that, as the proposals might fundamentally affect Scottish producers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156089",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 156089,
      "EditedText": "We can certainly raise those issues for the European Committee to consider. Is that agreed? It is agreed."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156090",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Alba Centre, Livingston",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 156090,
      "EditedText": "Agenda item 4 concerns a paper about a proposed visit to the Alba centre in Livingston. The paper says that in late September the committee had the opportunity to meet senior staff from Cadence Design Systems, in particular the chief executive Ray Bingham. Representatives of the Alba centre also attended the meeting. The meeting was very useful and was informative about the development of the initiative and the challenges that it faces in Scotland.The meeting's participants were very open with the committee, which was very welcome. However, shortly after the meeting, a press comment about Cadence caused concern to everyone who had attended. The comment implied that there was a lack of commitment and support for the company in Scotland. I have certainly never detected such a lack. I have written to Ray Bingham on behalf of the committee to thank him and his colleagues for their contribution to the committee's work and to assure him of the committee's support for the Cadence project.Notwithstanding those comments, we felt that the committee would benefit from a wider and deeper understanding of what is happening at the Alba centre and with the Cadence project in particular. We need the committee's approval to approach the conveners group to obtain that group's approval for a visit to the Alba centre. That will not be as elaborate an exercise as our meeting in Inverness, but we are required to seek approval for it from another part of the Parliament, which we will seek today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
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      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 156099,
      "EditedText": "I want to back up what Annabel and Allan have said. First, predatory pricing, especially against independents, is a problem in the remoter areas. Secondly, the majors are withdrawing contracts from rural petrol stations; that is a big issue in the Highlands and Islands. The stations are being refused new contracts and are being told to find a dealer to supply them with petrol. Thirdly, there is the matter of how margins are calculated. In Bute, we have the ridiculous pricing policy whereby I can buy white diesel for our farm tanks more cheaply than my local garage can purchase it for retail sales.If pricing is a separate matter that the Transport and the Environment Committee will not consider, we should be the lead committee on it. This is about competitive pricing and the abuse of monopoly powers. Our work would overlap with the Office of Fair Trading south of the border, so perhaps we should speak to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
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      "ID": 3543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 156105,
      "EditedText": "I have written to the minister on the points that you raised, Duncan, and I await a reply. Once I receive it, I shall circulate copies to all members and we can build it into our future inquiry programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ContributionID": 156107,
      "EditedText": "We can certainly bring forward proposals to the committee on that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155833",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "ContributionID": 155833,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:00"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 155836,
      "EditedText": "If you feel that a question is not relevant to the inquiry, will it, and your response, be recorded?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155839",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 155839,
      "EditedText": "You want to concentrate on Business Enterprise Scotland. What do other members of the committee wish to do?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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    },
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      "ID": 2098,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 155841,
      "EditedText": "Before Margo speaks, I should say that she is having some vocal difficulties today."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 155843,
      "EditedText": "I am not going to—I am deadly serious now."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 155844,
      "EditedText": "I hope that we are not on the record yet.I am interested to hear why the submission from Ms Kellie contains caveats about the university for industry."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 155847,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pursue questioning along the same lines as Nick Johnston."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 155848,
      "EditedText": "The submission from the IED is lively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 155854,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Please make your comments to the committee, then I will open up the debate."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 155865,
      "EditedText": "I will ask a few questions to elicit a bit more information.You have talked at length about national standards, which you aim to lift, and co-operation among the various trusts. How are you funded and led? Some local authority trusts are almost wholly owned by local authorities and are almost perceived as council departments. An element of competition is also creeping in—universities and so on are going for the same contracts that you go for. How can you get over the funding hurdle? What do you think about the commonality of purpose arising from the ownership of trusts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155855",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 155855,
      "EditedText": "I would like to give the committee one or two pieces of information about the trust network. I will briefly put forward some ideas on how things might be done better and then I will take questions.As we said in our notes, the trust movement delivers more than 3,000 start-ups a year in Scotland in the geographical areas that we cover. We are also involved in after-care; through that we are involved with another 9,000 organisations in Scotland.I am pleased to say that the survival rate from start-up to the two-year period ranges from just under 80 per cent to 85 per cent throughout the trust network. We do not focus on the start-up alone; we try to encourage on-going success through the difficult early years. Twenty-six trusts are members of Business Enterprise Scotland. They range from business-led trusts to trusts that are an amalgamation of business-led trusts and chambers. There are also two trusts which are entirely council operated. It is interesting to note that, from the business side, we attract an additional £1.25 million, in funding and in kind, on top of the £8 million that is contracted towards us. Quite a bit of private sector cash and in-kind funding comes through our organisation. All our trust boards have council members represented on them and a number of them have representatives from local enterprise companies. At board meetings, those people have access to the plans and finances for each trust and can comment on what is happening. The trusts have 200 full-time-equivalent business advisers working with organisations. More than 150 of them are either professionally qualified or are graduates. All the trusts are involved in Investors in People and have either achieved that status or are working towards it. We work in partnership with other organisations. We do not see ourselves as being able to deliver successfully in isolation. Business Enterprise Scotland works closely with the Scottish Executive. Over the past 12 to 15 months, we have had excellent support and have worked well with Ian Howie and his team from the Scottish Executive. We have also worked closely with Alan Sim and his team, to ensure that we can continue to look for ways of improving our practices and delivering a better system. At trust level, we work closely with local authorities to agree the areas of priority. The LECs are also significantly involved in those discussions, so there are two levels of interlock. We have been chosen by the Prince's Scottish Youth Business Trust as its preferred deliverer in Scotland and we operate nine of its agencies through the trust network.It is important to share across the network. Until BES was formed, the trusts were operating individually and they felt that that was not the best way to achieve synergy or to extend the range of capability or the reach that they could deliver. That is why BES was put in place. We forge links between trusts in a number of ways. For example, Agnes Samuel spends time going from Glasgow to Wigtownshire and taking experiences from that environment to other areas. That happens elsewhere, too. For example, our trust in Edinburgh is working with the LEC in the Borders. Robin Miller and I have just come back from Nairn, where we formed the conclusion that the Midlothian trust can add value to that environment. We are examining how we can take best practice, good ideas and cost-saving ideas to different parts of the network. I think that it would be helpful if Agnes were to go through three or four of the things that are common to the way in which we deliver our services across the movement. That should give members a flavour of the work that we do."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155863",
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      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 155863,
      "EditedText": "On average, what proportion of enterprise staff is at the coalface?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 155858,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that introduction, Gordon, which is much appreciated. I want to open up the questioning. In the area that I represent, in Tayside, there are no enterprise trusts: all the services are delivered through the local enterprise company network. Do you have any evidence of how the enterprise trust movement adds value? Other areas of Scotland have enterprise trusts; is there any differential pattern of performance of which you are aware in terms of business start-up, business support and the after-care support that is available, whether enterprise trusts are in the loop or not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 155867,
      "EditedText": "And the funding for the future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 155871,
      "EditedText": "I want to remain on the issue of funding. An annualised system of contracts comes down from the LECs, and until that changes, you cannot get a three-year contract. What will you do for funding in-between? If you are dependent on annual contracts, where will the resources come from to roll out the programme that you were talking about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
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      "ID": 121
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 155873,
      "EditedText": "Mr Smith, forgive me if I am being a bit dense. I see that there are 27 membership trusts. I believe that the total for Scotland is 40 or 41."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Samuel: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 155877,
      "EditedText": "There used to be a larger number of enterprise trusts, but they have declined in number. Quite frankly, some of them were not very good. Some of the LECs have contracted in different ways. What we have now is 27 quality members of a network. There are other organisations. Glasgow is complicated, because there are local development companies that are largely local authority and urban aid funded. They do not have a simple business development remit. They are also involved in social inclusion and employment issues in very specific black spots in the city. Does that help to clarify your question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
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      "EditedText": "No, I think that we could do better. We must extend the reach. As Agnes was saying, there are 28 trusts, 27 of which are members. One has chosen not to be a member. We do not have coverage in Fife, in Tayside, and in some areas down in the Borders. Over the last 12 to 15 months we have been improving on our product and on its consistent delivery so that we can replicate that in other areas. We have been trying to build something that can be taken out of one geographical area into others. That is what we are trying to do. There is only one trust in the Highlands area and it operates through the LECs. The question is how we use our processes to help that trust to deliver more through the organisations that are there. We do not have national coverage, but we can extend what we do have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 155881,
      "EditedText": "Needless to say, almost everyone now wants to ask a question. We must speed up a bit."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Samuel: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 155891,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful if I explained that enterprise trust status is a legal status, which is accorded by the department for industry on a particular basis. I believe that the department has tidied up its lists of enterprise trusts, because some organisations were not properly part of the network but had been called enterprise trusts in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 155900,
      "EditedText": "One of the strengths of BES is that it contributes local knowledge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 155908,
      "EditedText": "I confess to being a little confused altogether, and not just about the number of trusts that seem to be in existence, as they seem to be ad hoc—some areas have lots of trusts, while others have very few. You say that you have a role in running business shops and so on, and yet business shops exist in other parts of the country, possibly run by local enterprise companies. The picture is somewhat confusing.George asked whether the service could be delivered in a different way. Some of these initiatives seem to exist for historical reasons, because people in an authority, or whoever, decided that they wanted to set up an enterprise trust in an area. I do not think that a coherent service is provided throughout Scotland. What model of good practice is followed by those trusts that do not belong to your organisation? Is this not leading towards a somewhat disparate service, where a small or medium enterprise might get pot-luck service, depending upon where it is located, rather than being provided with a consistent level of service?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 155919,
      "EditedText": "We believe that efficiencies could be achieved in certain areas within the LECs, by joining up the back offices across the board. If we manage the process end to end, we can get higher productivity. I find that I do not get the focus from the LECs that would help me to improve that service. I cannot tell you what the LECs cost and how they add value and I would be nervous about joining something that I do not understand. That is the reality. I would not be keen to go down that route when we know what we are doing and we know that we are delivering well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 155920,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to the end-to-end process that you said was not there. Where does that failure to put in place the strategic vision of delivering that end-to-end process come from? Does it come from Scottish Enterprise at board level, or is it a result of the individual LECs all taking a different view on how the process should be delivered?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155922",
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    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 155922,
      "EditedText": "We have run up against the buffers of time for this part of our meeting. I apologise to the members that I was not able to call and will take account of that later in the session. Gordon, do you have any other comments to conclude your evidence to the committee?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155927",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 155927,
      "EditedText": "I have submitted a paper, which presumably the committee has seen and which I will use to outline the roles of the Scottish Council of National Training Organisations and national training organisations. I will then go through some of the points that are raised in the paper.SCONTO is the representative body for the national training organisation network in Scotland. NTOs are UK bodies with four-nation responsibilities. SCONTO's remit is to help UK-wide NTOs fulfil their responsibilities in Scotland. Before the Parliament was inaugurated, the Scottish Office document \"Skills for Scotland: A Skills Strategy for a Competitive Scotland\" identified NTOs as central to the support of lifelong learning for Scotland's future economic and competitive success.Although NTOs are called training organisations, the use of the word \"training\" is slightly unfortunate as they have a much wider remit. The point about training is that people do not train or engage in skills development in isolation; the point is—training for what? Our aim is to further the competitiveness and social inclusion agenda, so the NTOs are strategic bodies with a broad remit. There are 71 NTOs, but there are likely to be 75 once the network is set up properly. A lot of them are straight sectoral bodies that have developed from the rump of the old statutory training boards, such as the Construction Industry Training Board. Some, however, are new bodies for sectors that did not exist when the training boards were set up, such as information technology. A small group of NTOs are all-sectoral bodies—as we call them—because they have responsibility for administration or employment, which cut across every sector of industry. NTOs define the national occupational standards for Scottish vocational qualifications and, south of the border, for national vocational qualifications. They are also responsible for developing the framework for modern apprenticeships, the arrangements for which are very different in Scotland from those south of the border. SCONTO plays a central role in modern apprenticeships. Given our broad role and the confused context in which we work, SCONTO believes that NTOs should work together in broad sectoral groups. All the NTOs connected with a sector are encouraged to develop a joint strategy so that they are not all doing different things. In tourism, for example, a group called Impact Scotland is to be set up, although it is not quite inaugurated. Not only NTOs should work together. SCONTO firmly believes that broad partnerships are the key to success in skills and business development. We run a broad network, which we like to think of as a power exchanger, where information is disseminated and people are brought together and encouraged to engage in project work—there is nothing like projects that result in a product to get people to work together. We work with Scottish Enterprise, Highlands and Islands Enterprise, the Confederation of British Industry Scotland, the Scottish Trades Union Congress, local authorities and local enterprise companies, with whom we work closely on the modern apprenticeships. Partnership is the key and a large number of players have an important role to play—the paper gives a fuller list.In practice, SCONTO and the NTOs advise Government and key partners on sectoral and other issues, gather labour market intelligence, work with the Scottish university for industry and promote the uptake of qualifications through modern apprenticeships. SCONTO helps NTOs to identify and predict skills needs. If people are interested, they should feel free to ask me more about what we do later. I shall go on now to some of the key points in the paper. I stress again the importance of partnership, working with others and getting involved in national and local committees. For example, SCONTO is represented on the European plan teams for objective 2 and objective 3 funding and, in the Highlands and Islands, for objective 1 transitional funding. As a matter of fact, I do that myself because I happen to live up there, but that is just a coincidence. We also represent the NTOs, which are not all represented separately, on such bodies as the ministerial committee to identify the needs of the manufacturing sector. We gather information from the NTOs and act as the mouthpiece for them.In considering local economic development, all the players I mentioned—local authorities, chambers of commerce and local enterprise trusts—have a role to play and we need to know how to make sense of that. There is another sector that is often forgotten about—the voluntary sector. The voluntary sector is very important to local economic and business development. Not only do voluntary sector organisations have a lot of employees and volunteers, but by assisting individuals to become more employable, they benefit the local economy. Measures that assist social inclusion, such as the new deal, the new futures fund initiative, and the recommendations of the Beattie committee, are absolutely key to successful local economic development.  We work with the Scottish Executive, Highlands and Islands Enterprise and the LECs. Although there are some things that could perhaps be improved, SCONTO would hate the present system to be upset. We want people to work more closely together and we would not like to work to the English model, in which the training and enterprise councils have been demolished and new local skills councils and regional development agencies are being set up. Scotland has a better history in working effectively. We must not throw the baby out with the bath water; we must co-operate so that the system works properly. I rather regret the fact that the word training crops up in the title of NTOs; I sometimes get heartily sick of the separation between business development and skills development. Often, LECs have separate directors for business development and for training. Training is considered a poor relation and is associated with national programmes for skills development. We have skills development only to achieve a more prosperous population and a more prosperous economy and the two areas are really indivisible. I would like business development and skills development to be recognised as synonymous.SCONTO would also like a greater emphasis to be placed on in-company training, perhaps with financial support or inducements, especially for small and medium enterprises and for micro-businesses. Local enterprise companies and other organisations have a role to play in trying to create a flexible system so that, for example, a small business is not hit with a dozen different advisers connected with Investors in People, skillseekers and other funding. The system must be rationalised because small businesses do not have the time to deal with all of those matters.With regard to qualifications, the Scottish credit and qualification system could be the key to providing a framework for company training, but a lot needs to be done to make it flexible and more user friendly."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155932",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 155932,
      "EditedText": "Some NTOs have done useful work on that, in that they consider this in terms of continuing professional development and they link with professional institutions. We must do a lot of work with the higher education sector to persuade it of the worth of modern apprenticeships."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155935",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 155935,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned in-house workplace training and personal development. A lot of issues arise from that, such as what local colleges deliver and what funding is in place. Whether a person gets the opportunity to train seems to depend on what company they work for. Is there a case for a lead organisation to tackle issues such as funding?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155937",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 155937,
      "EditedText": "NTOs are not the only organisation to claim that."
    },
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  {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 155941,
      "EditedText": "To take the two examples you gave—in Lanarkshire and Fife—I accept that there is a partnership, but is there a lead agency?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155948",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 155948,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in what you said about the possibility of there being different models throughout the country. I am sure that there could be, but that would mean that there would be a very disparate service. Given that the lead organisation will be the one with the money—in effect, the local enterprise company—how do we address the fact that some LECs are in a better position than others?My next point is completely different: how do we ensure that the university for industry is not just a telephone helpline?"
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
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      "EditedText": "Our organisation represents the national training organisations—forget the word training, as it is skills and business development that is important. The NTOs broadly represent employers in their sectors. I will set training providers—including colleges—to one side, as the NTOs are not training providers or companies, although they connect with them."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 155961,
      "EditedText": "I think that the Scottish Executive should be working much more closely with the enterprise network and the NTOs—hopefully it will. An amalgam of those bodies could devise such standards. It is ridiculous that there is different bureaucracy and it is unfair that there are different funding systems."
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 155962,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased that Fergus asked about modern apprenticeships, because that scheme needs to be unified across Scotland.I would like to refer you to page 11 of your brochure, \"A practical approach in Scotland\", where you mention core skills. Surely they should be provided by schools. We seem to have no seamless approach between secondary schools and further education at all. Pupils are coming out of secondary schools without skills in numeracy, literacy and communication. Do you see a situation in which schools could be validated for providing those skills, which would integrate into SVQs and modern apprenticeships?"
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 155964,
      "EditedText": "How can we push that forward? It is essential to equip our young people at school for the responsibilities of gaining employment and skills later on in life."
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 155972,
      "EditedText": "Thanks very much, Jenny. Do you want to make any final remarks about the subjects that the committee has covered this morning or about our inquiry?"
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155977",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "I welcome Ms Jean Hamilton and Mr David Greaves, who will make a presentation on their work with the Scottish branch of the Institution of Economic Development. I understand that they are here in a private capacity, to represent their work for that organisation and not to represent the organisations by which they are employed. They are experts in economic development and they will assist our work. After the witnesses have given their presentation, I will open up the discussion."
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  {
    "ID": "C155979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Greaves (Institution of Economic Development): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 155979,
      "EditedText": "The single agency should exist at local level, however that is defined—there should not be just one such agency for the whole of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 155985,
      "EditedText": "I may not have explained one issue when I spoke about there being one agency. Although we are considering what size of geographical area would be necessary, that area would almost certainly require local delivery points. That would be the case for Lothian, which would require either trusts or something at a local level to which smaller companies in particular could have access. That would involve more of a branch structure—but I am worried that I am making this more confusing than it is.Let us consider business development in Lothian. There are Lothian and Edinburgh Enterprise Ltd, four local authorities, three or four trusts, a chamber of commerce and a local export partnership, all of which would come together in a single agency—it would be a single organisation, a single employer, a single recipient for all funding. It would have to have different points of access; it would not be sensible for everything to be delivered from an office in Edinburgh. However, that does not take away from the fact that there would be a single agency that is branded as such—people would be employed by the same organisation, which would typically offer the same programmes to similar companies. Is that a bit clearer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 155986,
      "EditedText": "I certainly have a fairly clear idea of what you are saying."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 155987,
      "EditedText": "As I am sure that everyone has told you, partnership is essential. Whatever happens, we will end up with more than one agency involved in economic development. Even in a wider context, it is not sensible for Scottish Homes, or health organisations, which have an important role to play in economic development, to act singly. Effective partnerships are fundamental.A review of performance measurement is needed. Much economic development is driven by what we can measure rather than by what we actually want. We could get a lot cleverer at that.Some powers that are currently reserved should be devolved—the most obvious one relates to the national training programmes. I do not understand why it is not devolved; I do not think that anyone will move from London to Edinburgh to get a slightly better allowance for training for work, but perhaps I am being cynical.We need to target resources within business development. It is not viable or effective to attempt to provide equal support for each business—we need to pick the companies that will deliver the greatest economic benefit, which tend to be the high-growth companies. There are, however, other priorities, including organisations that are in trouble or that could be candidates for downsizing—by supporting such organisations, we may be able to prevent unemployment.The norm for the delivery of business development has been to use short bursts of advice and input to companies. We think that that should change. Support for businesses should involve a much longer-term relationship with an adviser or a consultant or whatever one calls them; it should be much more focused on skills transfer. There should not be a division between business development and company skills development—fundamentally, they are the same thing. Companies should invest in skills to achieve their business objectives.At the moment, much advice is given through external experts, who are paid to write a marketing plan or something similar. After they have left, companies are unable to write their next marketing plan. The process should be much more about skills transfer—about teaching the company how to do such things for itself.There needs to be a major improvement in the skills of advisers, both those employed in the public sector and those who work as consultants and advisers to companies. There should also be an account management system. That is the jargon for each company working with a named individual. It would mean that, although a number of specialists might be brought in to help a company, the company would always have a named individual adviser working with it and co-ordinating support.There should be specialist cross-LEC programmes, and cross-Scotland programmes, where appropriate. There are a number of areas of business development—the obvious ones are supporting high-growth new starts, technology and product-development support, and corporate finance investment—where specialist skills are required and where demand in any one area tends to be low. That makes it impossible to achieve the critical mass necessary to come up with good programmes. We should, therefore, encourage greater collaboration between areas.It would be useful to have common business supports, where possible. That takes us back to the issues of confusion and branding. We are not talking just about the structure—if anything, we are talking more about the programmes and initiatives and the sort of support that businesses get.Currently, the Scottish Executive undertakes direct business development through its innovation division, which is responsible for schemes such as the small firms merit award for research and technology and support for products under research. We think that that should become part of a single business development agency.At the moment, European Union funding militates against what we call holistic business development. Effective business development is often about asking companies what their problems are and what needs to be done, and about customising a programme that will meet their needs. The EU will not fund that sort of thing. We must be able to say exactly what we intend to produce and by when. It would be useful if the system could be more flexible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 155988,
      "EditedText": "Could you bring your remarks to a close?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 155992,
      "EditedText": "In effect, you are saying that a range of people are working for different agencies—local authorities, local enterprise companies and so on—to produce component strategies for their organisations, and telling the Institution of Economic Development that there is no cohesion in our economic development strategy. Is that a direct result of the fact that so many organisations are involved? Is not Scotland's principal economic development agency—Scottish Enterprise—able to enforce the pursuit of an economic strategy for Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 155995,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Office would have been responsible for national strategy. However, for whatever reason, there was not one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 156001,
      "EditedText": "There is a difference. We need to get past the idea that there is an ideal solution for what might work best locally. The bottom line is that one solution is unlikely to work in every area of Scotland. Every programme or restructuring that has ever been implemented has worked well in some areas and not so well in others. Although partnerships might work in some areas, there will be a lot of problems. For example, people will be employed at different rates by different organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 156002,
      "EditedText": "You accept the principle of wider partnerships in education and social inclusion, but not in economic development. Is that not a dichotomy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 156007,
      "EditedText": "I said that they were not here to represent the organisations that employ them. They are here to represent the Institution of Economic Development."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 156011,
      "EditedText": "I assume that the two papers that we have in front of us are representative of the views of the Institution of Economic Development. If some views are expressed in a personal capacity, it would be useful to have guidance on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 156019,
      "EditedText": "Taking off my professional hat, I would say, off the top of my head, that we should look at qualitative measures such as considering whether the average salary of the jobs in question is low, medium or high. That should not be too hard to add in. Almost all the job figures we hear are forecasts, never actuals. I thought that I should warn members about that in case anybody had not realised. All figures should be treated with a pinch of salt.In terms of business development, we could include some measures of penetration. Instead of saying that we have helped 10 businesses, we could count each occasion on which we help the same business if we help it 10 times. We should be asking how many businesses there are in Scotland, what proportion of those businesses we have helped and what we have helped them to do. That would be relatively easy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156022",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 156022,
      "EditedText": "The paper was very good, very hard-hitting and a very enjoyable read—probably the most enjoyable that I have had on this committee. If I was to say to you, \"Give us three outcomes\", if we adopted all your recommendations, what would they be? On a point of clarification, could you expand on the business of the Treasury restricting the number of people employed by Scottish Enterprise. Finally, do you recognise qualifications for business advisers as the way forward?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156039",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 156039,
      "EditedText": "The problem in supporting tourism businesses is displacement, to use the jargon. Unless a business is targeted at attracting new visitors to Scotland, or at encouraging visitors to stay in Scotland who would otherwise have left, it will not generate any net additional activity at Scottish level. That is why we do not provide support to shops—if help is given to one shop, it would serve only to put another shop out of business. We are not saying that tourism should not be supported, but we must get at the businesses that are more likely to have an international hook or support companies in becoming more international."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156052",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 156052,
      "EditedText": "You talked about the lack of cohesion in delivery systems, yet there seems to be a clear statement here giving a sense of direction to that. You are emphasising the principle of a single delivery agent per company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C156057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 156057,
      "EditedText": "I will clarify that competition here means tendering."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 156059,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. I will draw this session to a close. Do you have any final remarks before I sum up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
      "HeadingID": 3540,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ID": 3540,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 156062,
      "EditedText": "We now come to the remaining items on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
      "HeadingID": 3540,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3540,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 156064,
      "EditedText": "We will try to do this as quickly as possible.A paper has been circulated on the appointment of an adviser to assist the local economic development inquiry.We must pay careful attention—this relates to the remarks that I made at the start of the meeting—to ensure that we keep focused on the job that we are trying to do in this inquiry. We must ensure that we do not wander too far off, up the highways and byways of other issues. We must keep within our remit. One of the suggestions that has been made in discussions with the clerks is to draw in an external adviser who could assist the committee in its work. The clerk's paper is for discussion among members. The recommendation is that we should, in principle, support the concept of an adviser and delegate appointment issues to a cross-party group of members. It is also recommended that we commission some research support to assist in the analysis of existing local economic development services in Scotland. However, I want to say a little more about that recommendation. The people at the Scottish Parliament information centre have been doing a fantastic amount of work to prepare material for the committee on the grid of service provision within Scotland. Members will not be surprised to hear that it is a big job. SPICe staff have put forward a proposal effectively to delegate the formulation and gathering of much of the information to local enterprise companies and others. I am not keen on the recommendation because I do not think that it gives us the independent analysis we require. However, I wanted the committee to have an open discussion on the issue, as I felt that I would be overstretching the mark if I took a view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
      "HeadingID": 3540,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3540,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 156077,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Referrals",
      "HeadingID": 3541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ID": 3541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 156078,
      "EditedText": "We move on to item 3 on the agenda. I declare an interest in this item, as I have signed the petition on tuition fees. Nick Johnston should do likewise. The Public Petitions Committee has referred that petition to us. The issue is currently under discussion by the Cubie committee, on behalf of the Scottish Executive, and the recommendation is that we should forward this petition to that committee for its information. Does the committee agree?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Referrals",
      "HeadingID": 3541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ID": 3541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 156084,
      "EditedText": "Do we know the amount of these grants a year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Alba Centre, Livingston",
      "HeadingID": 3542,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ID": 3542,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 156092,
      "EditedText": "I associate myself with George's remarks and with those of the convener. The briefing was probably the most interesting that I have attended in my short time in this establishment—I was going to call it an institution. It would be a worthwhile visit for those members of the committee who were unable to take up the previous opportunity of discussing issues that are important for the Scottish economy and for the local area. We should follow the recommendation and visit the Alba centre at the earliest opportunity. I hope that there will be no leaks arising from that visit to cause us embarrassment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 156095,
      "EditedText": "For information, the Local Government Committee met this morning and confirmed that it will deal with this matter by seeing those witnesses on 2 November. It will then consider whether it needs to hear from other witnesses and decide what steps to take. As the paper indicates, all members of this committee will receive papers for that meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 156097,
      "EditedText": "The fuel price escalator, tax and duty are important from a transport and environmental perspective. An aspect that we could consider is the differential, or the wholesale discount that the oil companies apply differently in urban and rural areas. That issue arose principally, although not exclusively, in an island community; differential petrol prices raise wider issues in the islands, as distinct from remote, rural or urban areas. If the Transport and the Environment Committee does not propose to do so, we should take on board that aspect of the inquiry and consider in detail, with the petrol companies, the specific issue of pricing policies. We should not duplicate the work of the Transport and the Environment Committee, but it is not clear what it intends to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 156100,
      "EditedText": "The issue of pricing strikes at the heart of the remoter communities' ability to have any enterprise base."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 156103,
      "EditedText": "In view of my past life, convener, may I suggest that representatives of the Petrol Retailers Association, which is under the auspices of the Scottish Motor Trade Association, would be good witnesses? They have raised a lot of the issues that we are talking about and are concerned about margins in transport costs and about differential pricing. An independent witness may not want to stick his neck on the line for this committee, but the Petrol Retailers Association could give a collective view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ContributionID": 156106,
      "EditedText": "Should we wait for the reply? Given that we have been waiting for a couple of months, should not we proceed with identifying the bodies that we would want to invite along or that we would want to visit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 573.0,
      "ContributionID": 156110,
      "EditedText": "We shall take steps towards holding that inquiry on concerns about differential petrol pricing. We shall also bring forward some other proposals on the semi-conductor inquiry that Duncan McNeil has suggested. An invitation will be extended to members of the Rural Affairs Committee to take part in our discussions on petrol pricing.I now close the meeting and thank members for their contributions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C156063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
      "HeadingID": 3540,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 156063,
      "EditedText": "I have a pressing engagement so I will leave at this point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 155845,
      "EditedText": "Does SCONTO consider that the audit systems that have been imposed by local enterprise companies are appropriate, or should the review simplify them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:27.871345+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 155916,
      "EditedText": "We all recognise that we need to create more small businesses and that the 3,000 new starts and 9,000 supports are an extremely valuable contribution. To pursue an earlier line of questioning, I do not understand why you are reluctant to perform your vital role within the auspices of the enterprise network. What is it about the enterprise network that made you say, in response to Mr Lyon, that you felt that you should remain independent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:27.871345+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 155918,
      "EditedText": "But why should your being part of the enterprise network result in more bureaucracy? Surely there should be less bureaucracy and, to use your phrase, less back office expenditure? I presume that means money spent on bureaucracy and processing paperwork rather than money being provided to help small businesses directly. What is it about the LECs that makes you think of them as a bureaucratic monster?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:27.871345+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 155956,
      "EditedText": "Last week, I spoke to individuals from two commercial companies involved in the delivery of training. Both expressed grave concerns about two things. First, they are subject to a welter of paperwork and bureaucracy in terms of the contracts that they receive from local enterprise companies in the Highlands and Islands. Secondly, the audit requirements on them, in relation to the training packages that they deliver, differ from one LEC to another. What are your views on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:27.871345+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 155960,
      "EditedText": "Who should devise them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:27.871345+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 27 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 3538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John Swinney): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 155834,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I convene this, the sixth meeting of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. We have a full agenda and I do not expect us to be finished before 1 o'clock. However, we will try to make as much progress as possible, especially on the latter items on the agenda, which I hope that we can deal with quite quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 155835,
      "EditedText": "We will hear from three sets of witnesses this morning in connection with our local economic development inquiry. Before we do so, I will say a few words about the approach that I intend to take during this meeting and future meetings. We are conducting an inquiry on a remit that has been agreed by the committee. In previous discussions, I have been fairly relaxed about the order and the competence of contributions. However, from this morning onwards, I intend to keep us firmly to the point of the inquiry. If I think that questions are roaming outside the scope of the inquiry, I will stop them being asked and answered. I do not say that to be unhelpful, but I recognise that the inquiry is wide-ranging and that, in some of our meetings, we could quite easily spend a lot of time on issues which, although they are important, do not relate to our inquiry.I encourage members to ask short questions. As we go into some of the more detailed areas of the inquiry, we will have the opportunity to establish a sequence of questioning for individual witnesses, to ensure that we get to the nub of the argument. I want to give individual members the opportunity to pursue a number of steps in a line of questioning, to ensure that we make progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 155842,
      "EditedText": "If I can, I will ask in my husky and attractive tones—Laughter. I do not want the convener to laugh at me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 155851,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask about issues on which you and I have been trying to elicit answers, such as performance measurement, the setting of targets and—as has been mentioned previously—duplication of service providers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gordon Smith (Chairman, Business Enterprise Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 155853,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee for inviting us. I introduce Mr Robin Miller, who is chief executive of Business Enterprise Scotland. BES is the umbrella body of the enterprise trusts in Scotland. Ms Agnes Samuel is chief executive of Glasgow Opportunities and also runs an enterprise trust. I will be looking to my colleagues to provide additional information to the committee as we go on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155856",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Agnes Samuel (Chief Executive, Glasgow Opportunities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 155856,
      "EditedText": "Glasgow Opportunities was involved in two projects from the beginning. One is LINC Scotland, the local investment networking company for Scotland. It ran a groundbreaking scheme to introduce business angels to small businesses that needed venture capital in a gap in which the venture capital companies and 3i were not interested because it cost them too much to deal with such businesses. Originally, that was funded by private sector cash. A secondee ran it in Glasgow for three years before the national network took it on and now all the local enterprise companies, apart from the one in Fife, are members of the project and it is meeting with tremendous success. It is a leading European project.The second project was innovations counselling, which was funded initially by BP in Dundee and Glasgow and is supposed to deal with inventors who have good ideas and spend a lot of money on patents, but who do not know where to go from there. The Scottish Executive took over responsibility for the scheme, which now covers the whole of Scotland, including the Highlands and Islands Enterprise area.As a result of the business birth rate strategy, the trusts got together to research barriers to growth in the network for female-run businesses. The research has contributed to Scottish Enterprise's female enterprise strategy and to the forthcoming women's charter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robin Miller (Chief Executive, Business Enterprise Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 155862,
      "EditedText": "On the subject of adding value, we also run from the centre a series of training events that are focused primarily on enhancing the technical skills of business advisers rather than chief executives. In addition to spreading best practice, we focus on the leadership qualities of the chief executives. The trusts are all small organisations and the quality of leadership is fundamental. We are trying to raise skills levels through training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 155857,
      "EditedText": "I would like to talk about things that we think could be done better.We found it helpful when the objective for 10,000 start-ups was set, because it gave us a goal. It made us understand that things had to be done better. It does not matter whether the figure of 10,000 is right or wrong; it is important to have a goal. We concluded that we would like to enlarge the trust network from 3,000 start-ups to 5,500 in the next three years while improving quality and ensuring that the start-ups are durable. We do not want to achieve that number but have a higher failure rate.We came across a number of inhibitors. It is difficult to plan a business with a one-year horizon. No one knows whether the business will be around after the next year, which is clearly an inhibitor to investment. The network needs to make better use of investment so that better productivity can be created not only in the back office, but in the front office, where there should be more business advisers.Volumes are allocated to us. The board of the trust in Edinburgh, which I am on, is usually told to support 400 start-ups and is not asked to find ways to support 410 or told that 350 is a failure. That means that trusts tend to contract on the basis of the volume that is passed down to them. That does not enable the trusts to create a vision or to work with other organisations to find ways to do things better.There are no end-to-end processes. That is most disturbing. A vision must be created and partners must agree on what is to be achieved, but there is also the question of how those things are to be delivered. The delivery, end to end, is not joined up. I will give an example of that. An event for people who are interested in starting up businesses was held in the Glasgow area. It was well publicised in the media and well attended. I asked the trusts how many leads they got from that event, which cost a lot of money, and the highest number was 17. That number will be wrong, but we are talking about orders of magnitude.By the time that organisations or individuals enter the process of starting up a business, it is typically a four-to-one gearing. If we want to arrive at 10,000 start-ups, we need something that delivers 40,000. We might improve the gearing of four to one slightly, but we will not take it to three to one. Those organisations need to be customer focused; we need to get them into the system, tell them about best practice, give them the best on-going advice, and help them. We need a better end-to-end process. I would now like to cover how we see that working. We are already working towards good value, I hope, with Ian Howie, Alan Sim and their teams. That helps us understand the strategies of Scottish Enterprise and the influence of the Scottish Executive, so that we can take that into our network and ensure that we can work with the right skills and focus.At that level, we also work closely with executive management in the banks—I will come back to that. To plan for three years at the delivery level, a common brand is required. The business shops should be better integrated. I mentioned common processes: we need to replicate best practice. We are doing a three-year plan; resources will need to be moved from the back office to the front office. Too much is replicated among the trusts, often not for productivity-related reasons but for specific reasons connected with local authorities. We need to examine how we might do that. More business advisers will be needed if we are to achieve 10,000 start-ups. I mentioned alliances: alliances with the banks are crucial to success. The banks own funding. We are already getting success in some trusts, and we are getting higher volume and better quality input from the banks than from elsewhere. That means that the trust can work with the customer to give the customer what they want and help their relationship with the bank, to get better funding. We want to know how we will have an agreement on direction, and how we will have delivery. Alliances with banks are the sort of alliances with which the network needs to work. We have been working with Scottish Enterprise. The trust movement has many good businessmen on the boards of local enterprise companies throughout Scotland. We believe that, in addition to the follow-on mentoring that we can do, we can get another hundred mentors out of those businessmen, to spend time—part of their time—with companies. We cannot do that without a joined-up process. We need the trusts. We will operate mentoring nationally, as we need to, because the person might be in the wrong geographical location. Delivery will be assisted through the trusts, and we will then take it further."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 155859,
      "EditedText": "I cannot comment on Tayside specifically. I have not been there and I do not know the organisations. When we started, 20 of the trusts were members and the others were not. Another seven have come on board to join us. They have done so because we can bring best practice. They want to share. The contracts for delivery are not common between the trusts and the LECs—that is illogical. We have been working on how to get consistency: council trusts, non-council trusts and others which were not members have come on board. By doing the type of work that Agnes Samuel is doing, we can go to areas and bring things to them that make a difference. They feel that they can deliver better quality and provide more programmes. We just do not touch Tayside."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155860",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 155860,
      "EditedText": "How do you at the centre share best practice with the enterprise trusts?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155872",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 155872,
      "EditedText": "That is a difficulty. Our trusts could close down each April. That is the reality. If we could have confidence for a three-year period that we would be allowed to stay in business, providing that, each year, we delivered against targets, we would be a lot happier. Then we could invest in the business.On the question of whether we need more money, the answer is that more money will need to be invested if we want to achieve 10,000 start-ups. I cannot put a sum on that yet. There are top-down plans, but we are building a bottom-up plan. That will come in at the end of the year, and we will tell Scottish Enterprise how much it will cost."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155876",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 155876,
      "EditedText": "Can I confer with someone on this?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155883",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Miller: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 155883,
      "EditedText": "The survey on service quality was done by a firm of consultants engaged by Business Enterprise Scotland. We particularly asked them to survey the quality of business advice throughout the enterprise trusts. A numerate, sophisticated methodology was used that provided a benchmark of the performance of the various trusts. Does that answer that question?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155884",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 155884,
      "EditedText": "Apart from who the surveyors were. So it was carried out by the centre and conducted on all the trusts?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155892",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
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      "EditedText": "That is very helpful."
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155894",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 155894,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add something. Does this have anything to do with the head count in Scottish Enterprise?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155897",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Samuel: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 155897,
      "EditedText": "There is a historical reason for our being separate. We predate Scottish Enterprise, as we were set up as part of a movement in the early 1980s to engage the private sector in local economic development, which brought together the Scottish Development Agency and private sector companies. Many of the big multinationals, for instance, were involved. Our major function was to give free, confidential and impartial advice to businesses, because we are not-for-profit organisations, and to help create jobs and bring increased economic benefits to our areas. That is how we originated."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155898",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 155898,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure whether that answers my question. You have told us where you come from, but I wanted you to justify your existence."
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  {
    "ID": "C155903",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 155903,
      "EditedText": "I would be surprised if it could."
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  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155906",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 155906,
      "EditedText": "How do you measure the quantity, rather than the quality, of the input? Does it depend on whether job opportunities and business opportunities are created by, perhaps, a big Scottish Enterprise-led investment in an area, or is a consistent number of hours set aside by someone from the local economy who is part of Business Enterprise Scotland?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155909",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 155909,
      "EditedText": "I agree with your latter statement. We cannot provide consistency of delivery in areas where we are not involved. We said earlier that an end-to-end delivery process is needed. The business shops need to be more joined up with the delivery channel."
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 155910,
      "EditedText": "What is the difference between a business shop in Dumfries and Galloway—in Dumfries, for example—and one of your business shops?"
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 155911,
      "EditedText": "To be honest, we tend to find that the question is: who runs the business shops? In some areas, LECs have chosen to run them, while, in others, LECs have contracted the enterprise trusts to provide that service. That was a LEC decision. We find that, where the business shop is joined up with the trust, there is more of a joined-up, end-to-end process for the referrals that come through."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 155915,
      "EditedText": "There is no joined-up process for referrals that says: \"If you come into this office, you will get consistent delivery. Key in and you will be entered into the process and allocated to an enterprise trust. You will develop your business and come out at the end either understanding that you are right not to start up or receiving real help to start up\".I agree that we really need to improve that end-to-end process across the network, by beginning either with the business shops, which give start-up advice, or with organisations such as the banks and taking that through to the end, using the same process and the same technology. People need the best advice. We do not go to areas where we are not involved, but we should be able to take our process and replicate it elsewhere.It is worth noting that those who have already been through the process and with whom we work well refer 50 per cent of the people who come to us, which is significant. I do not want members to get the impression that there is nothing effective out there. The problem is that the process is not joined up and requires more investment. If you can do that for us, you will have achieved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 155917,
      "EditedText": "Our focus is solely on business start-up, at which we are very successful. I need the LECs to help to form strategy; I do not need the added level of bureaucracy that would result from including me with the LECs. If we could agree a policy with the LECs that we could be one of the channels to distribute—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 155921,
      "EditedText": "Let me just start from a slightly different place. If you asked me, \"Who owns the 10,000 business start-ups that Gordon Brown has a vision for?\", that would be crucial in saying how we are going to deliver it. However, in the past 15 months we have found Scottish Enterprise and the Scottish Executive very productive to work with. I do not know whether that was because you were coming on board.With Ian Howie and Alan Sim and their teams, we are talking the same language. We are trying to drive commonality, higher volume and better processes through the system. It is difficult for Scottish Enterprise, with the fiefdoms of the LECs, to put that in place. We can work very well and get a vision from the top on how to do things. We can give our ideas as a channel on how we can best deliver against that and how we can improve delivery. I am not sure what the bit in the middle will do to add value to what we are trying to do.Some value could be gained at the start of each year if we agreed locally, with the local authorities and the LECs, some of the key objectives that they want to achieve in this arena. That need not take a lot of effort or cost. We could then manage the agreed objectives well throughout the system. There is no need for anyone to run big, expensive fancy events attended by lots of people. We do not have the capacity to handle that, nor does the process bring in those people to us. People would not run their own businesses in that way.Alan Sim and his team talk to me about their strategies and what they are trying to do with clusters and so on. We can then look at our boards and the skills that are represented on them. For example, we have Martin Ritchie, who is great in the electronics industry and, given that opportunity, anyone trying to start up a small business can punch a bit more weight. Our organisation is a broad church and we want to punch its weight across the network."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 155926,
      "EditedText": "You are one stage better than Margo MacDonald, who is squeaking today after croaking yesterday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 155933,
      "EditedText": "The SCONTO brochure states that NTOs will consider qualifications, guidance and training needs and what is most appropriate—and not just target SVQs. I welcome that, but we must consider that LEC policy insists that young people taken on as skillseekers are forced down the SVQ route. Have you seen any movement on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 155934,
      "EditedText": "I have lived with SVQs from the beginning. It has sometimes seemed a losing battle. Perhaps we ought to examine the framework and consider a much more unitised system. We ought to be able to, if you like, put different units together and parts of units together. Highlands and Islands Enterprise was doing some work on the issue, so there is some movement on that. It is horses for courses—it is a matter of what best meets the need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 155936,
      "EditedText": "NTOs could take a lead in their sectors with their companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 155940,
      "EditedText": "It should be a lead organisation in partnership with other organisations. That is what I am saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 155942,
      "EditedText": "The lead agency tends to be the body with the money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 155943,
      "EditedText": "Is that the LEC?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 155945,
      "EditedText": "In Fife it was the council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 155946,
      "EditedText": "We accept that there are myriad organisations, but we want to discover how best practice bursts through that. Does it have one lead agency behind it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 155947,
      "EditedText": "It can be different in different places. It can depend on which agency takes the lead."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 155950,
      "EditedText": "Does the training access points—TAP—database still exist? I put it together about five years ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 155957,
      "EditedText": "I am surprised to hear that about Highlands and Islands Enterprise, because it has a much more unified, top-down system, which is being improved. Other LECs use different systems—in the Scottish Enterprise area they use a plethora of systems. Modern apprenticeships, for example, have different funding criteria, which is really unfair and unequal and means that a modern apprenticeship programme might not be able to get any funding at all in Dumfries and Galloway, but might get it very easily from the Glasgow Development Agency. Some will fund apprentices to the age of 18 while others will fund to the age of 25."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 155965,
      "EditedText": "A lot of work is going on in Scotland regarding core skills delivery. One of the partners that I did not list on the short paper I presented to you is the National Centre for Education for Work and Enterprise. Its programme is about ensuring that young people come out of school ready for the world of work and that they have core skills. I think that the definition of core skills is too narrow. There are softer core skills than communications and numeracy. People are frightened of that because they say it is difficult to assess softer core skills—some of them are more attitudinal and are not as easy to assess as a written paper, or something similar. Work—in which we are involved—is being done on that. A lot needs to be done and support for such work would be welcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C155966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 155966,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, Jenny. You said that more needed to be done about voluntary sector input. Will you expand on that comment? I ask that because I have a keen interest in employee ownership and co-operative development. It is my perception that co-operatives have done a tremendous amount over the years to help those people whom many committee members would recognise as among the most disadvantaged. In other words, co-operatives have been able to motivate people who otherwise would not have become involved. Do you have any thoughts on how that involvement could be extended into the bigger scheme of things through a strategy approach? There is no such strategy at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 155967,
      "EditedText": "One of our national training organisations is for the voluntary sector. It operates through the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations and is doing a lot of work in this area. The issue concerns not only strategy, but the perception and promotion of the voluntary sector. Social inclusion not only rightly helps the individual but, by doing so, helps the community and local economic development. I am sure that there is contact between the different committees of this Parliament. However, we have an Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee—it is great and I love the title—that is separate from the social inclusion committee, or whatever it is called, and the education committee. There should be partnership activity between those committees, just as there should be partnership between the different agencies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 155968,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that there will be joined-up activity between the committees before long.I close this part of the meeting with a question. In your paper, you refer to the players in local economic development. I understand that the national training organisations are among those players. What services are delivered locally by national training organisations in terms of economic development? Are they unique or are they also provided by other players?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Kellie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 155971,
      "EditedText": "My national training organisations are, like everybody else, strapped for cash. There are also UK bodies, some of which have an active set-up in Scotland. I could not, hand on heart, say that every national training organisation could perform as well in every area of Scotland. I might say to one of my national training organisations, \"Right. You are the NTO for\"—to take a ridiculous example—\"sea fish. There is no point at all in going to talk to Glasgow Development Agency. You do not want to get involved in that local partnership but, my God, they really need you in the western isles.\" We must consider where sectors of employment are important. A lot can also be done for local initiatives. A good example is the work of the national training organisations with the food and drink cluster in Scottish Enterprise. They are delivering an awful lot of things locally with Highlands and Islands Enterprise as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 155974,
      "EditedText": "It has been a pleasure to hear your input. Thanks for your time and trouble."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Jean Hamilton (Institution of Economic Development): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 155978,
      "EditedText": "As the convener said, we are here on behalf of the Institution of Economic Development, which is a professional institution of economic development practitioners drawn from the range of economic development agencies in Scotland. It is representative of the whole of Scotland and draws its members from local enterprise companies, local authorities, Scottish enterprise trusts, consultants and academia.Over a year and a half, the IED undertook a wide-ranging policy consultation exercise with its members. We set up a series of focus groups that included people drawn from each of the houses of economic development that I have mentioned and asked what they would recommend—if they could start on a clean sheet of paper—to improve economic development. This committee's inquiry is, therefore, pertinent—it hits the same buttons as the work that we have been doing.I would like to run through some of the headline issues that the policy groups came up with. I will focus on the structure of economic development and the skills of the work force, as I understand that those subjects are the focus of the committee's inquiry, although it is worth saying that they comprise only a part of economic development—issues such as inclusion, access and physical business infrastructure must also be considered as part of the wider economic development solution.The first recommendation is that there should be a single, shared economic development strategy for Scotland. The fact that there is not one is shocking. Scottish Enterprise has one strategy and local authorities have theirs, but there is no single strategy that everyone is working to. A single national strategy could spawn local strategies and provide a framework for the huge range of functional strategies, such as the global companies inquiry, technology ventures, export strategy and inward investment strategy, which should all be driven by a single Scottish economic development strategy.The second conclusion was that there should be a review of the overall structure of the delivery of economic development. We are carrying out such a review. We have concluded that both the enterprise network and the unitary authorities must continue their involvement in economic development. They have unique roles, so we could not say that one should do the job and the other should not. The major structural change that we think is required is that a single agency should undertake one-to-one support for business development. We, as a profession, are consistently criticised because of the confusion that arises when people feel that they have to go to too many doors and that there are too many programmes. We are not prescriptive about what the single agency should be, but we believe that it should be drawn from existing business development agencies, programmes and staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 155982,
      "EditedText": "Our work specified the precise level, which, as Jean said, will depend on local conditions. Betraying my professional background—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 155994,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps \"authority\" is too strong a word. We are talking not necessarily about imposing Scottish Enterprise's will on the functions or approach of local authorities, but about leadership and giving clarity at a national level to organisations involved in economic development. The Gaelic signs in the Parliament should remind us that Highlands and Islands Enterprise and other Highlands and Islands bodies are also involved in this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 156003,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about business development. I do not think that I disagree with Jean on this issue. My view, which will be expressed anonymously in my employer's submission, is that a partnership that brings principal agencies together—in this case, at a local authority level—can work. Whether it is constituted as a separate company, a formal partnership or something in between is not the critical issue. It is critical to get everyone working together to a common strategy to deliver the quality services that businesses value."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 156004,
      "EditedText": "It is possible to get too caught up on the minutiae of what a structure or legal entity might be. The principle is that a single agency should deliver all business development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 156005,
      "EditedText": "Local authorities and local enterprise companies, along with other agencies, particularly the chambers, are the principal drivers at a local level. The broader economic development role of the local authorities is important. The information that a local authority might receive through being involved in a joint venture company can inform the other services that the local authority offers to companies, such as regulatory services. That is why the role of local authorities in direct business support is important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 156012,
      "EditedText": "Do the papers before us contain the views of the members of the Institution of Economic Development or those of the customers of the organisations that we are examining in the field of economic development?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 156013,
      "EditedText": "The views were expressed in discussions with the members. No contact was made with customers or clients."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 156014,
      "EditedText": "These are the views of people who are involved in the industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 156015,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 156017,
      "EditedText": "The survey has highlighted a number of weaknesses in the current performance monitoring and measuring systems and processes. Evaluation and monitoring of economic development is hard. I make a lot of money by advising people on it, so it must be relatively hard. The difficulty is that much of what we want to measure is not quantifiable and cannot be easily measured. We may want people to change their attitudes to raising their aspirations to grow their businesses faster, or we may want people to change their attitudes to be more positive about learning, but those are not easy things to measure.The major criticism is that the existing performance measurement system falls back on things that are easy to measure, rather than relying on the things that are most appropriate. The obvious example is skills. The only real measure that is ever used for skills is vocational qualification attainment, and that does not really hit the button for much of the skills activity that we are trying to promote.Many of the constraints in business development are to do with timing. Most of the performance evaluation reports that are required for the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament ought to be about what has been achieved this year. The vast majority of business development benefits may result from an intervention this year, but that will not be known until three years from now. If someone is starting a new export business, for example, they will not make all their sales immediately. We need to look more intelligently at the measures that we are using and include more qualitative measures.The other thing that has emerged is the need for progression measures. Rather than measuring the degree of help that has been given to a company to make a business plan so that it now achieves a turnover of £10 million, we should be measuring what its turnover used to be and how much it has increased. Some measurements consider progression, but the vast majority of them are snapshot measurements that ask: \"Are they exporting now or aren't they? Tick box.\" It is a complex area and the profession got only as far as flagging up some of the gaps and making some suggestions for improvements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 156020,
      "EditedText": "A longer-term relationship with individuals in a business is required. That would provide an easier mechanism for monitoring the progress of that business over time, rather than having a three-month intervention and then forgetting about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 156021,
      "EditedText": "We should set some baselines and look more closely at how the business changes over the years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 156023,
      "EditedText": "I will take the easy one first, on Treasury head count restrictions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 156026,
      "EditedText": "That is what I thought."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 156027,
      "EditedText": "The second least hard of your three questions was on recognised qualifications for business advisers. The answer is yes, ultimately. There is currently no recognised qualification. To click our fingers and say, \"Let's do that now,\" would be hard, but I personally think that is the only way that we can succeed if we are working towards some sort of standard.There has been some work on competencies; good stuff that has been going on in Dumfries and Galloway. They are progressing on a competence basis, which I think is the most appropriate way to go for advisers. I think, however, that it is too soon: it will be two or three years before such recognition of qualifications can be implemented."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 156029,
      "EditedText": "Do you also want me to answer the question about the three outcomes?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 156030,
      "EditedText": "Yes, the three outcomes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 156033,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on a particular point: the single strategy. Do you honestly believe that one single strategy will fit the whole of Scotland, given the huge range and diversity of some of the challenges that are out there in terms of economic development? The committee spent some time in Inverness last week, and those of us who represent such areas will tell you clearly that there is a different agenda in those areas about how to develop businesses and about economic regeneration."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 156035,
      "EditedText": "You identify the need to stimulate demand for skills in lifelong learning. Have you any idea of how we compare with competitors in this area? How would you stimulate that demand, and which bodies would be responsible for devising a strategy to do that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C156042",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 156042,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that improvement must be made in the way that indigenous companies are helped?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4171188+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C156040",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 156040,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean new developments and new marketing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156041",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 156041,
      "EditedText": "Yes.  We want to support tourism businesses, but we also want to focus directly on improving economic activity. If we help a hotel to do up a bedroom, that will not have an additional net effect at Scottish level.Another of your questions related to indigenous companies versus inward investment. I used to work for Scottish Enterprise. I do not think that there is a conflict between supporting companies that are attracted by inward investment and supporting indigenous business development. The biggest problem in business development is spending the money that is available. To my knowledge there has never been any conflict in decisions to support one business rather than another. It is often not useful to ask such questions. It is like asking if you like my aunt better than you like my uncle."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C156043",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 156043,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That has much to do with such things as the skills of advisers, the process of delivery and the type of support that we give, which might be too short term. The support that Locate in Scotland offers businesses to attract them to Scotland is pretty good. Scotland performs better in that respect than do most European regions, although I would need to see figures to confirm that. I would not worry—we must just focus more on what we do with indigenous business development.Community planning is a broader issue than business development."
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 156044,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that the aims of the single agencies could be incorporated into one highly effective system of planning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 156046,
      "EditedText": "I enjoyed the paper, but I would like clarification on something. Mr Greaves and Ms Hamilton seem to be sitting on the fence in defining where support should come from. There is a clear statement from the institution that local authorities should cease to provide support, but the witnesses have backed off from saying that. Can the witnesses, for the committee's benefit, confirm the institution's view on that?Nick Johnston asked about outcomes and a recognised qualification was mentioned in the response. Do you think that you should become a chartered body, with chartered members? If so, how will you achieve that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 156047,
      "EditedText": "I think that you may have an earlier Institution of Economic Development paper. The formal view of the IEDS is that there should be one agency. However, we do not specify which one it should be, because although it might be appropriate to do that in some areas—for example the local authorities would stop and we would focus on the LEC—in other areas it would not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 156049,
      "EditedText": "That is a working paper that fed into something else that is still technically a draft document as it has not yet been endorsed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C156050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 156050,
      "EditedText": "Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greaves: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 156051,
      "EditedText": "There are some working papers, but the shorter version is the final policy document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3539,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 156058,
      "EditedText": "We did not talk about that, although I have personal views. I think that it is a waste of time—it is a made-up process on which lots of people spend lots of unnecessary time. In practice, if an agency or trust is not working, the LEC and local authority sorts it out; if they cannot, they shift the contract elsewhere. That is the process that works. It is more important to get good performance measures and benchmarks than to go through some competitive tendering process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 156060,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for the opportunity and good luck."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C156065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
      "HeadingID": 3540,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ID": 3540,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 156065,
      "EditedText": "I want to draw on my experience of the Audit Committee. When we have held inquiries in that committee, it has been easy to focus on the issues, because the National Audit Office suggests the lines that we take, although we are not forced to take them. An adviser on this inquiry would be useful, because he would keep us on the tramlines, rather than let us go down all the fascinating byways that spring to mind when one reads the papers. I am not sure what sort of beast he would be. Perhaps someone from within the enterprise network who knows where the bodies are buried?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
      "HeadingID": 3540,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3540,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 156068,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we need to appoint someone. Indeed, we may need to appoint more than one person at particular points in the inquiry to get the range of expertise. The thing that we need to bear in mind is that this is a small village. Nearly everyone one talks to has been engaged somewhere in the process and has their own view and perhaps their own agenda. We will therefore have to be very careful with the selection. We will need to consider the people we pick closely, to ensure that we get a truly uncoloured view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
      "HeadingID": 3540,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3540,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 156070,
      "EditedText": "That goes to the heart of the matter. Whomever we identify is bound to have an opinion. We have just spent half an hour discussing someone's opinions in many senses. I do not know how we would find somebody independent. I do not know what the enterprise network offered in terms of support, but should we automatically rule it out, as if we are after some sort of alien agency? Are there businesses that are prepared to consider secondment here as well? Can we get a range of businesses or organisations, or whatever, with people who would consider secondment? Is that contrary to what we are looking at in terms of an outcome? I do not know, but let us have a look at it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Adviser",
      "HeadingID": 3540,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3540,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 156076,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee agree to appoint Annabel Goldie, George Lyon, Allan Wilson and me to that group?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Referrals",
      "HeadingID": 3541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 156079,
      "EditedText": "The next item of referral is the Educational Development, Research and Service (Scotland) Grant Regulations 1999 (SI 1999/65). The papers have been made available to committee members and the recommendation is that we have no particular comments for the Education, Culture and Sport committee, which is the lead committee on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Referrals",
      "HeadingID": 3541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 156080,
      "EditedText": "I am curious to know to whom the grants were paid from 1946 to now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Referrals",
      "HeadingID": 3541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3541,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 156081,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer that question directly. However, you can assume that the grants have been paid and that the order extends the Executive's ability to pay them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Referrals",
      "HeadingID": 3541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 156086,
      "EditedText": "I am not objecting to the recommendation, convener. I am just interested in the background."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 156087,
      "EditedText": "Simon will follow up your questions and will communicate the answers to the rest of the committee.At this stage, I should say that a statutory instrument about the payment of loans to students has just been referred to this committee as the lead committee on the issue. The order will come before the committee at its next meeting, which is on 10 November.The third item is a referral from the European Committee about the European Commission green paper on liability for defective products. The Scottish Executive's notes on the directive's contents have been made available to the committee. At this stage, as it is difficult to identify any particular component of the green paper that might be different in a Scottish context, it is proposed that no comments should be made to the European Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Alba Centre, Livingston",
      "HeadingID": 3542,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ID": 3542,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 156091,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to the issue that you raised, convener. The three members who were present at the briefing thought that it was one of the best that we have had as a small group. The participants were very frank with us and I hope that you made it clear in your letter that none of us was responsible for what appeared in the article in The Herald the following week. It would strike at the heart of the committee's credibility if any suspicion were to fall on committee members. It would also, dare I say, give companies and commercial organisations some cause for concern about engaging with us. We must make it clear that we had nothing whatever to do with the remark that appeared in the paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Alba Centre, Livingston",
      "HeadingID": 3542,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ID": 3542,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 156093,
      "EditedText": "I made the points raised by George and Allan to Ray Bingham in my correspondence. It is a fundamental principle that companies should be able to deal with this committee confidentially. I wanted to reassure him—and the wider audience—that that is how this committee operates. The recommendation is agreed to; we will come back to this matter. The visit is likely to take place on a non-sitting day—that is, on a Monday or a Friday—but there will be consultation on dates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 156094,
      "EditedText": "Our final paper deals with future business. Two issues have been raised as potential further inquiry topics. We touched on one during our initial discussion of areas of investigation; the other issue cropped up in correspondence from members.The Local Government Committee has put rating revaluation on to its agenda. The paper states that there is to be a hearing on 2 November at which evidence will be given by the Federation of Small Businesses, the Confederation of British Industry, the Executive and other organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 156096,
      "EditedText": "Members may attend that meeting and make contributions, as David Davidson and Helen Eadie have done at this meeting. We will be in dialogue with the Local Government Committee to ensure that members' areas of interest can be pursued in that forum. The second issue is differential petrol prices. I received correspondence from Annabel Goldie and Allan Wilson following a public meeting in Arran on 27 September at which concern was expressed by representatives of the local community about differential pricing structures for petrol in rural areas. That serious issue was raised as a possible inquiry topic for this committee. I spoke to Andy Kerr, the convener of the Transport and the Environment Committee, which has agreed five areas of early action, including petrol pricing and rural petrol prices. That committee is working on two areas of inquiry, one of which is an examination of telecommunications and mobile phone masts. I must remember to send that committee a letter that I received yesterday from a constituent about people using mobile phones on trains, although I do not know whether to confess that I am one of the guilty parties. The second issue that the Transport and the Environment Committee is considering is concessionary transport. It expects to get to differential petrol prices early in the new year. We have to decide whether we want to do anything before that. I am keen for the committee to respect the sensible boundaries between the areas of specialism. However, Andy Kerr assured me that his committee will address the issue at that time and that the same arrangements that the Local Government Committee has put in place for rating revaluation—in terms of taking input from members of this committee—will be put in place by the Transport and the Environment Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C156098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 156098,
      "EditedText": "Allan is absolutely right. The escalator is one part of the problem, but the more significant part, which was highlighted by people on Arran—although it applies to other remote communities—is that there is a furtiveness about other elements of pricing. It is unclear whether those elements arise from the oil distributors or from the oil suppliers, or whether they relate partly to transportation costs. At the meeting on Arran, Allan and I were certainly given to understand that an effective and impressive investigation had been initiated by the community there, but that people had hit a wall and could not get answers to specific questions. I agree with Allan. That aspect may be outwith the remit of what the Transport and the Environment Committee proposes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C156101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 156101,
      "EditedText": "A further issue that I should have raised is the use of Shell and Esso agency cards, which used to be available if the petrol station was contracted to a major. People could use their card to get their petrol at the UK average price. I believe that that facility has been withdrawn in some places."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C156102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 156102,
      "EditedText": "I sense that members would be enthusiastic about asking questions about the specific issue of petrol pricing and about the points raised by Annabel, George and Allan. I shall ask the clerks to take steps to set that up as soon as it can conveniently be fitted into our work programme. We acknowledged at the outset that we would concentrate on the local economic development inquiry but that we would leave some opportunities to pursue other aspects. I shall keep in close touch with the convener of the Transport and the Environment Committee on the subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C156104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 156104,
      "EditedText": "I would not dare to challenge Arran united there—Laughter. A couple of meetings ago, when I raised the issue of semi-conductor manufacture, we agreed that it would be interesting to consider the fluctuations of that industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C156108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ContributionID": 156108,
      "EditedText": "The issue of petrol pricing in Arran arose and we have been clear about our desire to extend the discussion to cover all rural areas, so that island communities can all get petrol at the same price. Semi-conductor production has a major impact on the Scottish economy and fluctuations in price and demand have a consequential effect. We should look at that in a wider context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C156109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 571.0,
      "ContributionID": 156109,
      "EditedText": "I imagine that the Rural Affairs Committee will take a very strong interest in petrol pricing, as the issue affects the economies of rural areas and the travel costs of those who live in them. We have agreed to attend the Local Government Committee and make reciprocal arrangements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C156111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Inquiry Topics",
      "HeadingID": 3543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ID": 3543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 575.0,
      "ContributionID": 156111,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:58."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4327408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 27 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 823
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-27T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 155958,
      "EditedText": "Should there be national standards for funding?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:27.871345+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 418413,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful if staff who are not asked to make representations to us are thanked for all they have done and are asked to provide us with a note on the issue. I know that Maureen has given those thanks, but she mentioned further technicalities. Perhaps they could provide those of us who are curious with a note."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 418473,
      "EditedText": "Are you seeking the kind of protection—I am perhaps treading in difficult waters here—of agricultural tenancies? It is on that sort of principle. Must the huts be used for a certain purpose and be already established? Is it the case that new ones cannot be established? Is it correct that new hutters' space cannot be set up without the landlord's consent? Would protection be for the existing ones? Would it also give the landlord rights with regard to what the hutters would be doing on the site?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 418475,
      "EditedText": "So it is a bit like an agricultural holding?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 418528,
      "EditedText": "Rent is not the only issue in this. The nature of the huts, the area itself and the regulation of that must all be considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 418530,
      "EditedText": "I am not talking about a definition—legislation would have to include a definition. I am talking about regulation. If there is legislation regarding this issue and if there will be designated hutters' sites such as Carbeth, there must be regulation of how the sites are managed as well. There must be a mechanism for resolving or even avoiding disputes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 418694,
      "EditedText": "I accept all that has been said about the difficulties that are involved in this case. If one were to start from the historical position that I went into, would that assist in the viability of the proposal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:46.4836469+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 418406,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:47"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11196,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11196,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 418408,
      "EditedText": "Yes"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Walsh (Senior Assistant Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 418411,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document ",
      "HeadingID": 11198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 11198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 418426,
      "EditedText": "Item two on the agenda is European document 334, a green paper on liability for defective products (10609/99). We have a very helpful covering note that was prepared by the clerk, which I hope committee members have read.The document is the first step in a review of an existing European directive on the subject. It imposes a strict liability on the producer so that any consumer who suffers injury from a defective product can obtain redress without having to prove negligence. A consumer would have to show that a defect in the product caused the accident, but it would not be necessary to show negligence, provided that the product was defective.The document has been remitted to us by the European Committee. We can debate it, although I should point out that product liability is reserved to Westminster. In those circumstances, and given that it is only a green paper, containing no legislative proposals, I would propose, unless the committee has any particularly strong views on the matter, that we simply take note of the document and file it for future reference should any specific proposals come back to us that may affect what we are doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document ",
      "HeadingID": 11198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 11198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 418431,
      "EditedText": "We could perhaps ask if the European Committee has referred it to other relevant committees as well as this one. There may be matters—Interruption. The clerk has just pointed out that it has been referred to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. By the sound of it, it should perhaps also have been referred to the Rural Affairs Committee. Other committees may have particular concerns about it. Euan is right to point out the consumer aspects, which would fall to this committee as they touch on consumer law. There may be issues relating to the document to which we might return in a longer discussion on a future date. Today, we are choosing simply to note the document. It is, I remind members, the equivalent of a green paper, and is just for discussion at this stage. Is everybody happy with that situation?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 418432,
      "EditedText": "We now move to consideration of petition PE14 from the Carbeth Hutters Association, on land reform legislation. We have asked certain individuals to present evidence to the committee: the first is Mr Chris Ballance, who represents the Carbeth Hutters Association. Could Mr Ballance and those he has brought with him please come to the table and the microphones?Mr Ballance, could you introduce the people you have brought with you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 418436,
      "EditedText": "You are all members of Carbeth Hutters Association?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 418440,
      "EditedText": "Please try to speak up, so that everybody can hear you clearly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 418441,
      "EditedText": "I will give a brief background to the dispute at Carbeth. The huts began over 70 years ago, under the proprietorship of the present landlord's grandfather. When the current landlord took over in 1990, he embarked on rent rises that went out of control. In 1997, most hutters decided that it had gone too far, and intimated to the estate their intention to withhold part of the site charges. The letter that was handed in from a number of the hutters—it makes up the petition—refers to the land reform policy group's recommendations for action from January of this year. Mentioned in those was the possible introduction of legislation to provide security of tenure and rights of access plus a mechanism for settling rents and other disputes. The final recommendation was that there should be further study on the matter. We strongly believe that that recommendation should be implemented.In cases where people own property on rented land, and that property cannot be removed without being destroyed, their lease should be a secure tenancy. They should have access to rent control, to ensure that rents cannot be increased above the rate of inflation without justification. Mr Peter Scott, a law lecturer at Glasgow Caledonian University, has prepared a briefing paper for the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. He is unable to attend today due to work commitments, but he has expressed his willingness to answer any questions and elaborate on any of the points that he has raised, if the committee wishes to contact him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 418443,
      "EditedText": "You comment on excessive rent levels and increases from 1990. The landlord has suggested that that is linked to improving facilities at the site, following no investment over many years. What are the current levels of rent? By how much has rent risen, and what would you consider to be a fair rent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 418447,
      "EditedText": "The increase represents a doubling in two years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 418449,
      "EditedText": "We pay taxation. We pay a non-domestic taxation rate of approximately £140 or £150."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418452",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 418452,
      "EditedText": "What about investment in the site? What facilities do you have? In recent times, has there been any increase in investment on the site?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 418454,
      "EditedText": "We actually have some boards with—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 418460,
      "EditedText": "One has pictures of the huts that are well maintained. They show how we would prefer to see the site. The other board shows how things have become run down over the past few years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 418461,
      "EditedText": "Both show pictures of huts on the site?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 418463,
      "EditedText": "Some are well maintained and some are not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 418469,
      "EditedText": "Members should understand that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 418472,
      "EditedText": "As far as I am aware, but I have not researched that in any detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 418476,
      "EditedText": "At the moment there are folk on the site who have been there for 50 years and who have put in 50 years' worth of repairs on the huts. They are still governed by a lease that allows the landlord, first, to put up the rents in any way that he pleases and, secondly, to throw anyone off at 40 days' notice without having to give any reason whatsoever. If the hutter is not able to sell their hut to someone, who has to be approved by the landlord in those 40 days, the landlord takes possession of the hut without paying compensation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 418485,
      "EditedText": "How have they changed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 418486,
      "EditedText": "The original trust appears to have been wound up at some point around 1990—I am not sure of the date—and a new trust was set up. The terms of the new trust are geared to allow the landlord to do whatever he likes. We have it on record from the landlord's evidence in court that it was set up for tax reasons. A clause in the landlord's grandfather's will stipulated that the estate of Carbeth should not be feued or leased in such a way as to interfere with the rights of possession of the traditional hutters. Linked to that, there may have been other reasons why the original trust was wound up—it may have been too restrictive. Now, the estate appears to be considering the land solely in terms of a product from which to maximise income."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 418489,
      "EditedText": "What is the position on the increase in rent for services? Can you give us more detail on the services that are being provided by the landlord?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 418494,
      "EditedText": "It is important that members understand the terms of the lease. Is it your position that the terms of the lease are unreasonable and unfair? What are the terms of the lease?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 418495,
      "EditedText": "We think that the terms are entirely unreasonable. There is a copy of a lease in the folders that Heather gave out. I should advise that the folders contain background information, should members need to look up anything after the meeting. The clauses that are at the root of the problem are those that refer to 40 days' notice and to the conflicting property rights, if you like. We own the huts, but the landlord owns the ground and has the power to take huts away from us without compensation. We feel that it is grossly unfair that someone can have had a hut for so long, have put so much work into it and have expended so much energy on it, only to lose it. The estate has claimed that that is a nice, clean and easy clause that allows it to get rid of unsociable hutters. While we all agree that there should be some term that enables the estate to go through the procedures to get rid of unsociable hutters, that clause has caused countless problems. Five or six years ago, the estate tried to evict one of its representatives—Mr Hanratty, who is here today—but the clause simply failed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 418503,
      "EditedText": "It would have been helpful if that had been circulated in advance of the meeting. When papers are handed around at the start of the meeting, it is very difficult for committee members to take them on board during an evidence-taking session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 418504,
      "EditedText": "I want to be absolutely clear about the lease. When did the new lease commence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 418507,
      "EditedText": "They were very similar. There were a few points, but they were almost the same."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 418509,
      "EditedText": "Was that always present from the very beginning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 418512,
      "EditedText": "They were brought in as holiday homes, although people stayed in them during the Clydebank blitz during the war and stayed on for a couple of years. Other people also lived in them, as they were able to get on to the local housing list. People bought huts for that sole purpose. The council wanted to stop that practice and classified them as holiday huts. However, they are not holiday huts at all. Many people stay in them permanently, including many of the estate workers. Some people have stayed in them, full time, for 40 years—I could give members the names of a dozen people who still live in them, including me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C418513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 418513,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Can you tell us a little more about the situation in England and Wales? You spoke about visiting huts down south and said that there were similarities. What are those similarities? Can you draw out the differences with leases of comparable huts down south?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 418519,
      "EditedText": "As far as I know, it is a bit confused because the Welsh hutters did not have leases. They had licence agreements that were weaker than a lease. Different hutters have had different licences at different times. At the moment, the owner of the site—who acquired it for development purposes—is caught between the bank to which he owes a lot of money and the hutters whose huts he must now maintain and look after. He is, as far as I know, still not accepting rents and so there are no leases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 418529,
      "EditedText": "The nature of the huts is well-enough defined in the case of those huts or chalets that are classified as fixtures to the ground."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 418532,
      "EditedText": "First, I would like to clarify what appears to be a discrepancy. In the oral evidence that was given at the start of this part of the meeting, it was said that the rent in 1996 was £529 per year. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 418536,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that had you been paying your rent—obviously you are on a rent strike—you would be paying £808?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 418540,
      "EditedText": "If you read the estate owner's newsletters you get a wee bit bamboozled because they are, among other things, contradictory. The rent has gone up from £529 in 1996. Standard rent went up, I think, to £672. Rent on premium sites went up to £750."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 418541,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the detail is not as important as the fact that the lease allows the landlord to do whatever he likes. He can add any charges he wants whenever he wants to add them.My first involvement in this issue was when we received notice of rent increases. We decided that we were going to have to sell the hut as we could not afford it. We applied to the estate to sell the hut and the estate told us that the hut was in a particularly nice spot so a transfer charge of £1,500 or £1,750 would be applied to it. That meant that someone who bought the hut for perhaps £1,250 would then have to pay a further £1,500 or £1,750 to the estate.It is the fact that the lease enables the landlord to add whatever charges he wants whenever he wants that is dangerous. Our understanding is that anyone coming on to the site is being offered huts at a cost of £68 a month. The landlord usually charges more if tenants are paying rent monthly, so that may account for the discrepancy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 418543,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 418548,
      "EditedText": "I understand that some access was provided by the estate owner. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 418550,
      "EditedText": "Was that cleared so that there was access for you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 418551,
      "EditedText": "No—the rubble was piled on top of the original track."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 418552,
      "EditedText": "Was that to provide hard core? It was not, presumably, put there to provide an obstruction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 418556,
      "EditedText": "The proprietor claims that the cost to him of improving the access was around £3,000. He would argue that your contribution to date has been around £97.50."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 418558,
      "EditedText": "You are in litigation at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 418561,
      "EditedText": "What are you reading from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 418564,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 418565,
      "EditedText": "It appears from your submission and from your petition that you are particularly concerned about management and the relationship you have as tenants with the landlord. The landlord is currently seeking to raise the rent, but has he evicted people who have not paid rents?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 418568,
      "EditedText": "Two have settled up and come to an agreement with the landlord and the other three have mysteriously lost their huts in arson attacks which have been put down to vandals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 418570,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly what he is doing. I have a letter here that was issued after I had received an eviction notice in the court. It says that the landlord's reason for going to court was to ensure that everyone knew his rights as a landowner. He stated in court that his right as a landowner was to charge any rent he wanted to charge. He said that, if he wished, he could legally charge £20,000 million. Before people went to court, the landlord said that if they paid all the money that he wanted, they were welcome back. I have a letter here that was delivered to every hutter. It states that I am a first-class hutter, \"a highly respected hutter\", and that I will be very welcome back. This is not about eviction at all; it is about forcing all the hutters to accept ridiculous rent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 418571,
      "EditedText": "So it is not so much a clearance as a rent strike and a dispute about the rental payment. The proprietor is not seeking to clear you from the land."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 418577,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to cut people short, but we are pressed for time. People representing the estate and individuals from the Scottish Executive are here and we must begin the debate on the statutory instrument at half-past 11. Gordon Jackson and Euan Robson wish to ask questions. Could your questions equally be asked of other witnesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.598687+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 418578,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.598687+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 418583,
      "EditedText": "So, the lease has been signed on the basis that neither party would use it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 418587,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for attending the meeting today. It may be that we will be in communication with you again. Please leave the documents that you brought with you with the clerks so that members can see them. I now ask the representatives of the estate and Mr Thomas Hanratty, on behalf of hutters not in dispute with the estate, to come forward.We are more pressed for time than I had hoped. After we have spoken to those who represent the estate, we will hear from individuals from the Scottish Executive. I do not expect that they will give evidence for long as the points on which they can respond are narrow and they have given us a detailed briefing. I propose to allow questions and answers for the three witnesses before us to run until 20 minutes past 11. That is shorter than we thought. I ask committee members to ask their questions as briefly as possible and those giving evidence to be as focused as possible.The witnesses are Mr Andrew Smith, from Carbeth Estate; Mr Tony Meehan, who is the adviser of the proprietors of Carbeth Estate; and Mr Thomas Hanratty, who is here to speak on behalf of hutters who are not in dispute with the estate. It is appropriate to point out that not all of the hutters are involved in the action that has been on for the past few years. I have just noticed that Lyndsay McIntosh has joined us. Have you been here for a while?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 418589,
      "EditedText": "Rather than have the estate representative give a presentation, we will go straight to the question and answer session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C418590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 418590,
      "EditedText": "I will ask about money that has been spent on the site—upgrading of tracks and pathways was mentioned. Is that the major expense on improvements in recent years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andrew Smith (Carbeth Estate): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 418591,
      "EditedText": "In terms of the amount of money, the upgrading of tracks is the principal expenditure. To put that into perspective, the estate had some rock that could be used to put the base of a road down. I am not an engineer, but I know that you must put a base down for a road. To get at the rock, a crusher had to be hired and the best deal available was to bring one up from England. That had to be brought up on a loader and was on the estate for quite a long time. Some of the roads have natural small streams running by them or underneath them. In one place, quite a big concrete culvert had to be built before the road could be put on top. With roads, it is also necessary to do ditching work at the side. The road that goes down to Heather Martin's hut was mentioned. I drove down it two weeks ago. It is on an estate, so it is not a motorway but it is a road that you can drive a car down. The roads represent the biggest item of expenditure; there is a lot more to putting down a road than just throwing a few rocks down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C418592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 418592,
      "EditedText": "The other submission says that the cliff had to be removed. Was that the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C418594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 418594,
      "EditedText": "But if you had not used that material for the roads, you would probably have used it as landfill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 418595,
      "EditedText": "In order to maximise the income to the estate, we would probably have sold the material as base for other people who are building roads."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 418597,
      "EditedText": "We refer to 169 hut owners. Tony Meehan will have the actual figures. There is a difference between the number of hut owners and the number of sites. There are many sites for huts on the estate, some of which are not occupied by huts. It is a bit of a movable feast, but in terms of the rent strike, there are 169 hut owners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Meehan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 418600,
      "EditedText": "Yes, there are 169 hut sites with property on them, 20 of which are unoccupied."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 418601,
      "EditedText": "So, of the 169, 20 are—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 418605,
      "EditedText": "Of those, how many are on strike?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 418610,
      "EditedText": "And that there are 38 with whom you might be said to have a dispute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 418613,
      "EditedText": "About rent? So you might have a dispute of another nature with some of the other 93?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 418614,
      "EditedText": "Not as far as I am aware, but a lot of issues other than rent seem to be being discussed this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 418617,
      "EditedText": "If 93 hutters are up to date with their payments, is it the case—as we have heard in evidence this morning—that you have served eviction notices on 90 people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 418621,
      "EditedText": "Is the estate saying that the problems that have been drawn to our attention this morning are the problems of a minority, not a majority?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 418625,
      "EditedText": "I understand that his will states that a trust should be set up for working people from Clydebank."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 418627,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that that is not the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 418629,
      "EditedText": "Was that the nature of the trust originally—for working people to have a hut? I want to be clear about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 418631,
      "EditedText": "But that was his wish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 418632,
      "EditedText": "No. He did not ask that a trust be set up. He said in his will words to the effect that he hoped that the hutters would continue to be looked after by the estate and that the estate would not be sold off or dealt with in such a way as to affect adversely the hutters who were on the estate at that time. We are talking about 1950 or something like that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 418633,
      "EditedText": "I realise that it was a long time ago. As far as the present landowner is concerned, have the purposes of the estate changed? Do you now see it as a commercial issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 418644,
      "EditedText": "I accept that, but the phrase \"look after\" is the key one that I picked up from what Mr Smith and Mr Meehan said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 418649,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to item 8 on page 8 of your submission. You make a statement that surprises me and gives me cause for some anxiety.\"Around 20 people . . . want to come off the rent strike and pay their arrears but are scared of doing so.\"Mr Hanratty is sitting beside you. He, and 92 other people, must be extremely brave—or perhaps you have some other justification for the statement about people being scared of paying their rent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418651",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2172,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 418651,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps Mr Hanratty would like to comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418654",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 418654,
      "EditedText": "That would be a planning issue for the local council, which has placed a restriction on the occupancy of the huts. I do not have the exact wording of the regulation in front of me, but the gist of it is that the huts are not to be used as a principal or main residence. That is what is laid down by Stirling Council's planning department. If we sought to increase the number of huts beyond the number for which there are sites—as I have already said, at present there are more sites than huts—we would need permission from Stirling Council, because it has to provide certain services. Rubbish clearance is the obvious example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 418656,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 418658,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ContributionID": 418659,
      "EditedText": "Notwithstanding the fact that the lease allows for that, do you consider it to be fair? Effectively, you could impose rent rises five times a year, if you wanted to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 523.0,
      "ContributionID": 418662,
      "EditedText": "Excuse me, I think that this is quite important. Legally speaking, there is nothing in the lease to stop us increasing the rents. When I say that we can raise the rents, I mean that the lease permits it, not that it says so explicitly. The lease allows us to do that because it is annual in nature—every year, we can renegotiate the terms with the tenant. When we introduced the rent increases, we thought that what we were doing was quite reasonable—if we had not, we would not have done it. We still ended up before this committee and with some very expensive court actions.In our view, the marketplace and the existing law provide reasonable protection as regards rent controls. I would also draw the committee's attention to the settlement proposals that were issued and appear at the back of our submission. They make it clear that in future we are prepared to work with a group that represents all the hutters and to discuss various issues relating to the estate, including any proposed increases. Looked at starkly, the lease permits rent increases to any level, but practically that would not work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 525.0,
      "ContributionID": 418663,
      "EditedText": "Is it your argument that if there were an independent rent review procedure, you would not be able to manage the estate viably?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 418671,
      "EditedText": "I have tried to explain that while other commercial operations and lets have comparative evidence available for the consideration of the arbiter—I am familiar with commercial leases and that is what happens if landlord and tenant cannot agree—there is nothing else that can be compared to Carbeth. In the past few weeks, we have let new huts to people at the rents that we are asking the hutters to pay—without any difficulty. There is a market for them. If we go beyond those rents we will simply not be able to let the huts. We do not think that an independent mechanism has anything to work with in order to fix the rents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418672",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 418672,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming. As I said to the previous witnesses, we may contact you further about this. I suspect that this meeting will not be our only consideration of this problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 418679,
      "EditedText": "That is correct. The land reform policy group considered the issue and put out a report for consultation that included a proposal for legislation to give greater security for those who \"own\" property on leased land. We received about 120 responses to that consultation. Opinions were sharply divided between those for and against legislation—I can elaborate on that, if you want. Others did not answer directly, or raised other points. Following the consultation, ministers decided that further information and consideration was needed before they could decide about legislation. That is why we commissioned the research, which is in two stages.The first stage was concluded in the spring and was an attempt to identify other sites of huts and hutters—people in a similar situation to those at Carbeth. We then agreed to move on to the second stage, obtaining information from both the landowners and the hutters. That stage is almost completed and is being written up at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C418681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 418681,
      "EditedText": "I realise that this is a difficult question. Is it possible to take into account similar huts that we have heard about in other parts of the UK?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Murray Sinclair (Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 566.0,
      "ContributionID": 418683,
      "EditedText": "My comments will be general, as it is difficult to comment on these particular cases, partly because we have not yet seen the leases and do not know the facts and circumstances of all the cases. The House of Lords case is relevant, because it is about the law of fixtures—that is, when property attached to land is affixed to the land and has become a fixture. As I understand it, the law in England is thought to be the same as the law in Scotland in that regard. I do not think that that is directly relevant to these cases because, based on what we have been told today, whether the huts are a fixture is not a matter on which the rights of the hutters turn. Rather, I understand that the hutters do not have rights because the huts are said not to be their principal home. If the huts are not their principal home, there is no question of the rights of the hutters amounting to an assured tenancy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 418688,
      "EditedText": "I shall pass the second question over to Isobel in a moment. On the first question, I foresee some difficulties. The proposal for legislation would have to be worked up in more detail. Any legislation in this area would have to be fair to both landowner and tenant and we would have to ensure that it was compliant with the European convention on human rights. We want to avoid hybridity and retrospection.There are also difficult questions about the categories of properties to which the legislation would apply. That would need to be given careful thought and drawn up in a way that did not have adverse consequences for people who were dragged along by the definition that we had to employ. For example, there is complex legislation to cover time-share owners or agricultural tenants who have built houses. There will also have to be consideration of the basic principles. What is the principle on which rents will be set? Is it fair to limit them to the retail prices index, as the hutters have suggested? That would mean that people would start from a variety of different positions. What would happen if the landowner improved the land? A phalanx of questions would need to be answered. We have only recently seen the Carbeth hutters' proposals. At official level, we would be happy to discuss them in more detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 594.0,
      "ContributionID": 418697,
      "EditedText": "The way in which the huts have developed and the nature of the huts would help in shaping a definition, but there would have to be a generic definition and one that clearly identifies the people for whom we are trying to target protection."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 601.0,
      "ContributionID": 418700,
      "EditedText": "Whose ruling was it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418706",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 613.0,
      "ContributionID": 418706,
      "EditedText": "That the Justice and Home Affairs Committee recommend that nothing further is to be done under the Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418707",
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 614.0,
      "ContributionID": 418707,
      "EditedText": "The point that the Subordinate Legislation Committee and the Justice and Home Affairs Committee are concerned about is relatively narrow and has to do with the definition of when a trial begins.  In common law, a trial begins when it is called. For the purposes of legal aid, that definition appears to have been departed from. Specifically in these regulations, a definition is given that the beginning of a trial is deemed to be when the first witness is sworn. That is a matter of concern for the Subordinate Legislation Committee and for this committee, because it is in the knowledge of a number of individuals that a trial can go on for a considerable time before a witness is sworn.As I understand it, the reasoning is that legal aid—at least in so far as it is described in the statutory instrument—is meant to be a recompense for the skill and abilities of solicitors in their conduct of trials, so it is not appropriate to reward them for not really doing anything, albeit a trial has been called. Nevertheless, even that caveat does not cover a number of situations that not only can arise but are well known to have arisen. Although they do not arise every day or in every court, they have occurred frequently.I am aware, as are committee members due to correspondence that was circulated before this meeting, that discussions have taken place between the Executive and the Law Society in particular, with regard to perhaps reconsidering the way in which this instrument is drafted. The correspondence, which resulted in an almost daily exchange of letters, culminated in a final letter that was sent to you yesterday, minister—a copy of which I believe we all have—which outlines some of the ways in which a trial could have started substantively without the first witness having been sworn.Some of the issues concern the accused's competence to give instructions. For example, there could be a question as to whether the complaint itself is fundamentally null. There could be a plea in bar of trial. There could be long and detailed arguments about whether an adjournment was appropriate. The sheriff may decline jurisdiction, and there may be discussion about that.That is not an exhaustive list of occasions on which a considerable amount of debate may take place over a considerable amount of time without a witness having been sworn. It seemed to the committee that it would be anomalous and unfair if in those circumstances—even if it were in a minority of cases—solicitors who were having to work hard for their client were being denied reasonable recompense for their work.That outlines the committee's concerns. We were also concerned, in a more general sense, that having recognised that there was a defect in the drafting, we should not be seen to be allowing the instrument to go through on the nod. We felt that it was incumbent upon us to respond to what had been drawn to our attention and to ask the Executive to reconsider the position.As I have referred to an exchange of correspondence, including letters to the minister, the minister may wish to detail some of the conversations that have been going on when he makes his response, which I invite him to do now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 620.0,
      "ContributionID": 418709,
      "EditedText": "That is not my view, minister, but unfortunately it appears to be the view of the Parliament's legal advisers. I consider that interpretation to be utterly ludicrous and I intend to take the issue further. The clerk advises me that you would have to make up your own mind about whether you wish to proceed. Laughter.I cannot advise you—all I can say is that the advice that I have been given is that we should avoid a discussion of fixed payments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1911E107P234C418729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacKay, Angus",
      "ID": 1911,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angus MacKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 661.0,
      "ContributionID": 418729,
      "EditedText": "I am advised that it will have almost no cost implications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 665.0,
      "ContributionID": 418731,
      "EditedText": "Since you have indicated, minister, that you will have further consultations with the Law Society prior to the amendment being finalised, I ask that the committee be kept informed as the process continues, rather than having to wait until we see the final amendment. That would help us all. Would you like to add any further comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 418477,
      "EditedText": "I am familiar with that—I have read your material. I am trying to get to the principle of how it would operate. Should we consider the matter with the Executive or this committee—more likely the Executive—moving towards a separate piece of legislation, or do we incorporate measures in a land reform bill? That is ahead of us anyway, and we could set up a special type of tenancy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 418522,
      "EditedText": "I would like to recap some of the points that have been made. The hutters want regulated tenancies of some kind with regulated rents, and would, in due course, like to be able to buy their leases, although that is not on the agenda just now. The regulated tenancies would apply only to existing sites on which huts are established.We would have to examine the definition of a hut, but it may be based on an historic situation from the 1920s and 1930s. Would the hutters expect the rents for the site to be subject to independent review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 418526,
      "EditedText": "Surely the landlord also has rights. Are you saying that such places as the site of the Carbeth huts are special places? Do they require special treatment because they are not like holiday homes or caravan sites, but have been there for a long time and have a function that is, perhaps, more important now than in the past?I notice from the booklet that things have happened to tracks, for example, that were bad news for the sites, but any legislation would seek to give the landlord rights as well as obligations. There would be a need for someone to regulate this whether there is or is not a dispute. Do the witnesses agree with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ContributionID": 418696,
      "EditedText": "I am referring to the historical position of the hutters from the '20s and '30s and to the definition of legislation that would deal just with those particular issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:46.4836469+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 418414,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 418416,
      "EditedText": "We have notes of the meeting, but I did not think that it was appropriate to present them today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 418418,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 418422,
      "EditedText": "I have not yet had a copy of the final work plan. If I have received a copy it will be under the pile of papers here, but I do not think that I have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document ",
      "HeadingID": 11198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 11198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 418429,
      "EditedText": "But none of those are areas that this committee discusses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Chris Ballance (Carbeth Hutters Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 418433,
      "EditedText": "I would like to introduce Heather Martin, who will be giving the presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 418434,
      "EditedText": "Can we establish who the other person is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 418435,
      "EditedText": "The other person is Mr Bill McQueen. We are all members of the hutters association."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 418437,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and of the Carbeth Hutters Association committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 418438,
      "EditedText": "Members have received your booklet. It was sent to us some time ago. Another document has been passed around today, just before the meeting. You will appreciate that people have therefore not really had a chance to look at what you have submitted this morning. Committee members will have seen the booklet, but it is perhaps a bit much to expect them to have got through all the rest of the documentation including, I note, pages from the Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1907 and various other exciting tomes. Thank you.Ms Martin, if you could take perhaps two minutes to outline briefly the position that you are in at the moment; then committee members may take the opportunity to ask some questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Heather Martin (Carbeth Hutters Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 418439,
      "EditedText": "Certainly—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 418442,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I should say that, before we proceed with any question session, we are aware that there is an active court case involving an eviction dispute between one of the hutters, a Mr Rigby, and the landlord, Mr Barns-Graham. Because of the sub judice rule, members should avoid making direct reference to that particular case. Does the committee have questions for the representatives of the Carbeth Hutters Association?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Bill McQueen (Carbeth Hutters Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 418444,
      "EditedText": "I can tell you exactly. The rent was 10 shillings before the war. After the war, in 1948, it was £1. It was £5 in 1958, after the grandfather of the present landlord died. The rents have risen by over 13 per cent yearly until 1996, when we received a newsletter about the rents. The huts used to be of the same standards. Some were put up on premium sites. In the spring 1997 newsletter, it was stated that the rents would be based at £888 from 17 May 1997. The rent was £529 in 1996; they were to go up to £888 in 1997. Does that answer your question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 418448,
      "EditedText": "Is that purely rent? I take it that no local taxation or council tax is included?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 418450,
      "EditedText": "On top of the rent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 418453,
      "EditedText": "We have had nothing back from the site. On my site, the landlords have not spent a penny for 60 years. I am a retired clerk of works and maintenance officer. As far as repairs go, the site has to be seen to appreciate how much disrepair it is in at present. The site is a disgrace. I do not know why the council hasnae stepped in and done something about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 418455,
      "EditedText": "We cannot hear you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 418464,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 418465,
      "EditedText": "How has that difference come about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 418470,
      "EditedText": "Can we hold it there. You are going to have to be more clear about the questions and answers. The official reporters must try to get this down in a clear manner for the Official Report. When there are questions and answers, please try not to cross-talk. There is somebody here desperately trying to take down your every word, and that is difficult if two people are trying to speak at the same time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 418479,
      "EditedText": "I have read all the material that we have been sent so far, except that which we received today, as I have not had a chance to read it. I want to establish for the record the chronology of the situation, as it is important that we clarify the steps that led to it. Am I right that the original trust was that the working people of Clydebank were entrusted with part of the Carbeth estate for reasonable rents that they could afford?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 418480,
      "EditedText": "That was the general idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 418481,
      "EditedText": "Was that the trust's original intention?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 418483,
      "EditedText": "I would like the witnesses' view on whether the trust's intentions—in terms of the new landowner—have changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 418487,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, is it your evidence to the committee that the current trust has changed in nature from the original trust?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 418488,
      "EditedText": "I have not seen the deeds of the original trust. However, I would infer that from the wording of the will of the grandfather who set up the place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 418491,
      "EditedText": "I wish to make it clear that no services are provided to the individual huts. They have no running water, electricity, gas or sewerage—all services that would be associated with caravan sites, for example. Such services are not provided at all. Stirling Council provides water and rubbish collection, which are paid for by rates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 418493,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 418496,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, your position is that the power balance in the lease massively favours the landlord."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 418498,
      "EditedText": "You said that you wish the Justice and Home Affairs Committee to consider some form of protection legislation. You also mentioned rent controls. Have you taken guidance on the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which may cover the lease?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 418500,
      "EditedText": "Please do not mention any of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 418501,
      "EditedText": "I think that one of them is in court today.We have considered various approaches but a succession of sheriffs has upheld the lease. They have said that, be it fair or unfair, the lease holds in law and that we have no protection in law. We are considering as many approaches as possible. One of the papers in members' folders is a report by Peter Scott, which Heather may wish to refer to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 418502,
      "EditedText": "One of the most important documents that members should consider is Peter Scott's briefing note. He is an expert in property law and has closely examined the situation. He is more able than we are—as lay people—to examine the legal arguments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 418510,
      "EditedText": "Yes—from memory."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C418511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 418511,
      "EditedText": "I have seen it written somewhere that the huts are considered to be holiday homes as opposed to permanent dwellings. How do you see them and how do you justify that view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C418518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 418518,
      "EditedText": "How do the leases operate in the Welsh example that you described?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 418525,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure what the mechanism to achieve that would be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 418533,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 418535,
      "EditedText": "The rents were meant to be £808 from 17 May 1997, but that was not to be implemented until 1999. Premium rents were increased by 42 per cent in that year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 418539,
      "EditedText": "I ask because the evidence that has been submitted by the estate owner suggests that the rent currently stands at £785, not £808. I am trying to see why there is a difference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418545",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 418545,
      "EditedText": "I purchased the remains of a hut—some pieces of wood and a few bits of broken glass."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 418547,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I did."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C418553",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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      "ID": 143
    },
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 418553,
      "EditedText": "I think that the estate would say that it was meant as an improvement, but whether it was meant to be for the benefit of the hutters is open to question. Most people would say that it is an eyesore that adds nothing to the estate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 418560,
      "EditedText": "I would like to quote from a report by Mr Robert Balfour. He said:\"Provision of access is not a service as the rent should cover the renting of the property to include the access road. As an access road is a communal area it is possible to charge a service charge to cover the maintenance. Service charge by its very name cannot be used to recover capital cost\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 418562,
      "EditedText": "I am quoting from a report by Robert Balfour of the Scottish Landowners' Federation. He came to the estate as a surveyor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 418563,
      "EditedText": "Could you make it clear when you are quoting from a document and could you leave that document with the clerks at the end of the meeting so that it can be circulated? I think members would find it interesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 418566,
      "EditedText": "He has served eviction notices on 90 people. Of those 90, four or five of us have gone to the courts and lost our cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 418567,
      "EditedText": "Are those who have not gone through that legal process or who have paid their rent still on the site?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 418569,
      "EditedText": "Does it not seem then, that rather than aiming to remove the hutters, he is seeking to increase revenue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 418575,
      "EditedText": "So it would have to be retrospective legislation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.598687+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 418579,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask a question. The difficulty is that part of me thinks that the rent issue does not take us anywhere. You signed a lease in 1993, which gives the landlord the right to charge whatever he wants. Why you signed it is neither here nor there, but you did. We could do something about rents by introducing rent control. We could fix a method of ensuring that there must be independent rent reviews, even though it is just land that is being leased. Once that has been done—Brian has hinted at this—you have no security of tenure. You have never had any security of tenure, in that a lease has always been in existence that either party can terminate in 40 days. The rent could be controlled but the landlord may not like it and say, \"I no longer wish to have those people here at a rent, that is not enough for me. I will evict everybody straight away.\" I believe that he can terminate those leases on a 40-day notice. What do you propose that we do about that? I have some sympathy with Brian's view, that if we block the rent increase, the proprietor will simply say that the leases are terminated. How would we stop a landlord terminating a lease in terms of a notice, which is agreed by both parties?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.598687+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 418580,
      "EditedText": "We are not lawyers, and there is vastly more experience on the committee than we have. Part of our problem is that we have always been refused legal aid, which is why a lot of us are fighting our own cases. We have been examining the possibility of a change to the Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1907, under clause 37 of which we are being evicted. An addition to that clause might be a simple way to enable us to have some form of security of tenure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 418585,
      "EditedText": "You have emphasised that you want legislative change and that you want it to be separate from residential caravan and static holiday caravan legislation. Holiday homes have developed over a long period of time. There is not too much in the way of planning development control over the site. Do you fear that legislation would lead to a proliferation of such sites across the country?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 418586,
      "EditedText": "We are all for legislation that will improve the huts. We have had discussions with Stirling Council about making the estate a conservation area. We would like the council to ensure that the huts are properly kept and that the place is nice and tidy. We would welcome that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 418603,
      "EditedText": "So 131 of the huts have leases in operation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Meehan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 418604,
      "EditedText": "Correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Meehan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 418606,
      "EditedText": "A total of 93 are paying rent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Meehan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 418611,
      "EditedText": "Correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 418615,
      "EditedText": "In one of its submissions, the hutters association says that it represents 120 huts, yet in your documents you suggest that the association represents a smaller number—presumably the 38?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 418622,
      "EditedText": "We think that the Carbeth Hutters Association represents the minority. We also think that the increase in rent was the original cause of the difficulty. Since that time other issues have come to light that have proved problematical. We are happy to try to address those but, essentially, we think that this is a rent dispute with a few vociferous people who do not represent the majority of the hutters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 418623,
      "EditedText": "I have three questions. The first is about the original trust. I understand that the grandfather set up the trust to help working people so that they could have a hut in the beautiful scenery of the Carbeth estate. Do you disagree with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 418634,
      "EditedText": "In today's terms, the estate is really just a small farm of around 280 to 300 acres. It has always been a working farm, or working estate. Different generations of the family, who have all lived on the estate, have run it in their own ways, as people do with businesses, but it is fair to say that when Allan Barns-Graham—the current proprietor of most of the estate—inherited, he inherited a situation that he thought was dangerous in terms of the estate's ability to continue to support the huts. Reference is made to that in our submission, and there was evidence to back that opinion up. The number of huts had declined over the years and they had fallen into some degree of dilapidation. In Allan's view, one of the reasons for that was the impossibility of getting material to them to repair them. Therefore, in 1990, some six years before the raising of the rents that kick-started this problem, he embarked on a programme to try to improve the way the estate was run—the whole estate, not just the part the huts occupy, which is substantial. So there was a change in attitude that came with a new proprietor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 418636,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 418637,
      "EditedText": "It seems to give an inordinate amount of power to evict people. Do you not think that it would be fairer to lengthen the duration of the lease, to give people a wee bit of security of tenure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Meehan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 418640,
      "EditedText": "There was no original trust—that is the confusion. You have been told that there was an original trust that was set up by the grandfather. It does not exist."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Meehan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 418645,
      "EditedText": "The 40-day lease is binding on both parties. The tenants therefore have the opportunity to give notice and move. They can sell their huts, or do what they choose with them, because they are their property, as they are on the estate. One of the important things that I ask the committee to take on board is that nobody has actually been evicted. Nobody has been thrown off the estate, and—to the best of our knowledge—nobody has had their property usurped. The claims that you are being confronted with are nothing more than hypothetical claims."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Meehan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 418647,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for asking that. First, plans were not lodged at Stirling—they were proposal documents that were presented for discussion with Stirling Council. They were confidential. One of the things that we would like to know—although this may not be the forum for it—is how confidential papers that were not in the public domain were made available to the public.As for the caravan sites, that was not a detailed plan; it was nothing more than a discussion. There are no plans other than what we have already agreed with Stirling to proceed with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 418650,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that Tom will be able to answer that in more detail than I can, but one of the other services that the estate provides is a system of wardens. They are on the estate almost all the time, can be contacted all the time and talk to the hutters all the time. The wardens form a link between the estate management and the hutters; inevitably, they chat about things. Our information comes to us via that route."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 418653,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Mr Hanratty. I have one final question for Mr Smith, regarding controls on the site. The site seems to have been built up over time. What controls the conditions and the number of huts that you have on the site now and might have in the future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 418655,
      "EditedText": "We are getting very close to the time that I designated as the cut-off point for this part of the meeting, but I have one or two questions that I want to ask.We all agree that the origins of this dispute lie in the rent rises that were imposed some years ago. The lease—of which we do not have a copy—seems to allow arbitrary rent rises, of any amount. Is that the position?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 418657,
      "EditedText": "Does the lease allow the landlord to raise the rents whenever and by however much he chooses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 527.0,
      "ContributionID": 418664,
      "EditedText": "That would be one of the issues that we would need to consider if there were an independent procedure, but there are others. What would such a procedure take as its terms of reference? If a person rents out a flat in Glasgow, there are 50 or 100 other flats with which to compare it. There are other hut sites in Scotland—and indeed in other parts of the United Kingdom—but Carbeth is unique. We do not think that there is anywhere that an independent group could compare to it. We also worry about the costs. To whom will the costs for running the body fall? Will it be a Government body and will people be happy to pay for it? Finally, we feel that it is our job to manage the estate and if the ability to fix one of the principal sources of income is taken out of our control, the ability to manage the estate is taken out of our control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 418667,
      "EditedText": "—but it has been quite scathing about the situation at Carbeth, using language that appears to have become endemic to the dispute. How do you explain its response to the situation, which seems very unusual?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 418668,
      "EditedText": "I can explain it very simply. The Scottish Landowners Federation has a very difficult job on its hands, trying to convince a sceptical public that it has a role to play. The public perception is that the SLF represents fat-cat absentee landlords who rent out their land for lots of money, for hunting, shooting and fishing and who own huge tracts of Scotland and do not attend to it. What could be more perfect when trying to redress that opinion than to take on a landlord and pillory him in the press? That is exactly what the Scottish Landowners Federation has done.Allan Barns-Graham's estate has perhaps the greatest public access of any estate—certainly any lowland estate—in Scotland. There are rights of way through it and there is access to crags for climbers and the public. I think that the Scottish Landowners Federation chose to come out publicly, very strongly against Carbeth estate because it was politically expedient: it suited its purpose nicely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 418670,
      "EditedText": "You say that the lease is fair and you have talked about negotiation, but there is no negotiation in the lease, which makes it clear that you can fix the rent at any time. That is perhaps rather unusual. It is more common for a commercial lease—that is what this is—to say that there will be rent reviews, a figure will be fixed by the landlord and if agreement is not reached the rent will be fixed independently. If you really want to be fair, why do you not change to that sort of lease?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418673",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "ID": 143
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 418673,
      "EditedText": "If anyone wants to visit Carbeth estate, they are more than welcome to get in touch with us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418676",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 418676,
      "EditedText": "I notice that that research is due to be concluded shortly. Can you give a more fixed time scale?"
    },
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
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      "EditedText": "Do members have any quick questions?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C418682",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 418682,
      "EditedText": "I will pass on the question about the legal differences—it would be a different legal framework. Much has been said about the Welsh case, about which we have information, in Holt's field in the Gower peninsula. I understand that while those huts may have started off like the Carbeth huts, they are used as the main or principal residence of the majority of people and therefore are in a different position. Legal cases went through the courts and eventually reached the House of Lords, which considered whether the chalets were a fixture on the land—a point that relates to who owns the chalets. We have heard quite a lot today about the fact that the hutters believe that they own the huts. Under Scots law, if the huts were a fixture on the land, they would be owned by the landowner. Paradoxically, that would help to create a condition in which the rent acts might apply, although many other conditions would have to apply as well. Murray, would you like to comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418685",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 570.0,
      "ContributionID": 418685,
      "EditedText": "I shall leave aside the question of who owns the huts and whether they are fixtures or not, which is quite complicated. This is to do with a lease of land. Forget the hut on the land—these people are leasing land and there is a rental provision that allows the landlord to charge whatever he likes. Is there a particular problem in simply having a provision that there is rent control when land is leased, leaving aside whether there is a building on it? For example, if one were to rent out land, there could be a barrier to an arbitrary charge of £1 million a week—which, theoretically, could be charged—and some form of rent tribunal control on the lease of land. Is that technically bad or good, possible or impossible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 418686,
      "EditedText": "Any proposal for regulation or control of rents would need to take account of the purpose of that control and its likely impact. My responsibilities are in the area of housing and I am responsible for the Rent Registration Service, which was mentioned earlier. There is a history of rent control and regulation in housing and there are principles around the concept of a fair rent and a market rent on which that control is based. If we were to extend rent regulation into land that is used for building huts, we would need to establish some kind of principle and a regulatory body. Certainly the Rent Registration Service has no expertise in the setting of rents for hut sites, which is a specific subject, or for caravan sites and so on. Its expertise is quite specific."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418690",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 418690,
      "EditedText": "That is right. There are quite a lot of difficulties that would need to be worked through."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418691",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 418691,
      "EditedText": "That must make it difficult for you to answer the second part of my question."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418699",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 599.0,
      "ContributionID": 418699,
      "EditedText": "The Deputy Minister for Justice, Angus MacKay, is here for this debate. Minister, thank you very much for coming and please accept my apologies for keeping you waiting. You will be aware that we have been dealing with the issue of the Carbeth hutters, which may increase your work load even further, depending on what the committee decides to do about their petition. I remind members that there is a court case in progress on the general issue of fixed fees and whether they are compatible with the European convention on human rights. To conform to the sub judice rule, members should, I am advised, avoid making comments on the issue, and should concentrate on the merits or otherwise of the amending regulations. However, I wish to make a couple of comments on the record. Given that the statutory instrument is, in the main, specifically about fixed payments, it seems quite extraordinary to me that the sub judice rule should be construed as barring us from a discussion about fixed payments. I think that it is an extraordinary interpretation of the ruling that could have some serious effects for the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and indeed for the Parliament, given the increasing number of cases that are likely to be taken under the convention on principles, rather than on specific issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1863,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ContributionID": 418701,
      "EditedText": "The legal advisers to the Parliament. I will take up the issue, because it seems an utterly extraordinary position for us to be in: a statutory instrument on fixed payments is before us, yet we are told that we are not permitted to discuss fixed payments.As it happens, the point about the statutory instrument with which we are concerned is not to do with fixed payments, but I wanted to remind members not to stray into generalities until we have a further discussion or debate with the legal advisers to the Parliament about that ruling.I should also remind members of the committee that if they have any interests that are relevant to criminal legal aid they should declare them at the beginning of any comments that they wish to make. Gordon, I see that you are smiling, but I think that these particular legal aid provisions do not relate to the kind of legal aid that you frequently put in claims for. So, despite your smiles, I am not sure that—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418703",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11200,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 607.0,
      "ContributionID": 418703,
      "EditedText": "I note that there is no elaboration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 609.0,
      "ContributionID": 418704,
      "EditedText": "A small interest in legal aid."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1911E107P234C418708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacKay, Angus",
      "ID": 1911,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Justice (Angus MacKay): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 618.0,
      "ContributionID": 418708,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for the invitation to attend the committee to discuss this issue.I should say—I am happy to receive your guidance on this—that I had intended, by way of providing some brief background, to address the broader issue of the Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48). Is it your view that it would be improper to do so?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1911E107P234C418710",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angus MacKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 622.0,
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      "EditedText": "That is the very subject about which we need to talk today. That makes for a challenging opportunity. In that case I will—as I am sure members will be relieved to hear—simply cut to the chase. That will make my contribution considerably shorter.The regulations—as the name of the statutory instrument suggests—amend the original fixed payments regulations that were made earlier this year. They did three things: first, clarify how fixed payments apply to deferred sentences; secondly, extend the special allowance payments for remote sheriff courts to three further courts; thirdly, define the start of a trial for legal aid purposes. The first two changes—applying fixed payments regulations to deferred sentences and extending the remote payments to Wick, Fort William and Dunoon sheriff courts—have been fairly widely welcomed, including by the Law Society of Scotland, and I do not propose to speak about them in any detail.The clarification on deferred sentences extended the scope of the fixed payments and that arose from discussions in the tripartite group that was set up in March when the regulations were made in the House of Commons.A special payment of £50 for every case in a specified list of remote sheriff courts was part of the original fixed payments scheme. It was based on a formula that was designed to take into account the remoteness of the court and the volume of its business. While remoteness does not vary year by year, volume of business does, and has done in the past. As a result, we have updated the list to take account of the latest figures on case loads. That has brought in three more sheriff courts to the remote payments scheme, which has been welcomed.The third change has been the subject of comment by this committee, although it will be difficult to discuss the matter without discussing fixed payments. The original fixed payments regulations did not specify when a trial was understood to have commenced. The intention was to rely on the common understanding that a trial begins when evidence is led. The problem that has emerged is that the recent decision in the High Court in the case of John Mitchell v Vannet has cast doubt on that approach. That case—which was concerned with a different issue—provided a definition of the start of a trial as being when the accused's plea is confirmed.Since the intention behind the extra payments was to reward a solicitor for work in conducting a trial, it was felt necessary to define the start of a trial—for legal aid purposes only—as being when the first witness is sworn. That definition was chosen because in the great majority of cases that is the start of the trial proper. The Law Society of Scotland did, however, draw to the attention of the Executive that there might be cases in which no witnesses are sworn. Our advice has been that that happens in a very small number of cases and we have not as yet identified any, but we did not want to disadvantage solicitors conducting trials of that kind.Officials of the justice department have, as you mentioned, convener, had discussions about a solution to that problem with the Law Society. I understand that it has written to members of the committee to tell them that those discussions have taken place. The most recent letter relating to the subject was—as you rightly said—to me. I received that letter very late yesterday and I will come to it later.As a result of those discussions, the Executive now proposes to bring in further amending regulations, as the committee is aware. Our proposals are set out in full in the letter that I sent to the convener on 21 October and that has, I understand, been made fully available to all members of the committee.In short, there was agreement on the general proposition that the starting point for a trial could be based either on when the first witness is called by the procurator fiscal or when an agreed joint minute of evidence is placed before the court on the day of trial. Our solicitors are at present considering how those proposals can be translated into regulations, which we plan to lay as soon as possible.The Law Society has written to welcome the Executive's approach to discuss changes to the regulations. It asked specifically for consideration of two issues. The first is the time scale for the regulations. Our position is that we would like to introduce them as soon as possible. We already have a draft, which requires some more work. That should not take too long. We will then consult the Law Society directly. Once it has considered the draft, we will lay the amending regulations. The regulations need to lie for 21 days before they come into operation. However, in this situation, I suggest that Parliament may wish to consider waiving that requirement.Secondly, the Law Society asked what would be done to ameliorate the prejudice to anyone who is adversely affected by the current amending regulations. As I have already said, we understand that no cases of a kind that might not have been covered by them have emerged so far. It seems to me that the solution is to make the new amending regulations come into force as soon as possible.I suggest that, since action is now in hand, following consultation with the Law Society, to repair what this committee considered to be a defect in the regulations, there is no case for annulling them. If the regulations are annulled, it will mean that solicitors in the courts in Wick, Fort William and Dunoon will lose the extra payments that have been widely welcomed. I ask, therefore, that the committee note the action that is now in hand and will, very soon, remove the problem that was the source of its main comment on the regulations.Before I finish, I want to say something about the letter from the Law Society, which the convener mentioned and which I received very late yesterday. It drew attention to a range of examples where, it was felt, the start of a trial would not remunerate the solicitor. As you would expect, I will respond to that letter in due course. However, it seems to me that the examples given are, broadly, pre-trial issues that are already covered by the core fee of £500 in the sheriff court and would, in the normal run of events, be taken care of in the intermediate diet. I will be interested to hear the views of individual committee members on that. That is the purpose of today's discussion.In the light of what I have said, I invite you, convener, and the committee, to consider withdrawing the motion."
    },
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  },
  {
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    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 624.0,
      "ContributionID": 418711,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister. I remind members that when they address questions to the minister they are doing so on a member-to-member basis—as a member of the Scottish Parliament, the minister is entitled to be here. We are not questioning a witness, as we were earlier this morning. Do any members wish to make a comment, ask a question or look for elaboration?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1911E107P234C418719",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacKay, Angus",
      "ID": 1911,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angus MacKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 641.0,
      "ContributionID": 418719,
      "EditedText": "I can assure you that the time scale will be nothing like the one that you are concerned about. We want to conclude the matter before the end of the year.I am happy to consider the issues that were raised in the Law Society's letter that arrived yesterday. It will be part of the dialogue that we will have when the issue is raised, just as we will take on board the issues that have been raised here today.The constraint on discussing the broader issues of fixed payments is unfortunate. Some of those issues relate to a much broader area, such as the whole point and practice of the fixed payment scheme, how it is intended to operate, what it is intended to deal with and how the simplicity and size of the payments cover a range of types of work. Nonetheless, I am happy to give the assurance that those issues will be given proper consideration in the reply to the Law Society and in any subsequent dialogue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1911E107P234C418721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angus MacKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 645.0,
      "ContributionID": 418721,
      "EditedText": "There are two separate issues. We intend to write back to the Law Society about the regulations that we are outlining to you today. The Law Society will consult its members about them. A separate, although related, issue was raised in yesterday's letter. We will have discussions with the Law Society about that, first in my reply to the Law Society. We will see where those discussions take us, before I give any undertaking about what we may do. The Law Society may make an argument that persuades the Executive. We must see the substance of its concerns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1911E107P234C418723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angus MacKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 649.0,
      "ContributionID": 418723,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to give that matter consideration. I am not necessarily personally persuaded by those arguments. We will have a dialogue about this issue. If a persuasive case can be made, we will consider it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1911E107P234C418725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angus MacKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 653.0,
      "ContributionID": 418725,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to pre-empt the discussion that we have with the Law Society. It has a case that it wishes to make, which I will be happy to hear. This is only a one-page letter, which outlines some potential circumstances. It says that it is by no means an exhaustive list and it does not go into any great detail. We must wait and see what the Law Society produces."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1911E107P234C418732",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angus MacKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 667.0,
      "ContributionID": 418732,
      "EditedText": "No. The matter has been dealt with straightforwardly. Everyone is clear about what we are attempting to do. I hope that that puts the committee and all interested parties' minds at ease."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418733",
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    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 669.0,
      "ContributionID": 418733,
      "EditedText": "Since I moved the motion, it is incumbent on me to bring the debate to an end by saying one or two words about it.Given that what the minister has said this morning is reassuring, especially in terms of the time scale and his intention to consult the Law Society further, I will withdraw the motion. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee has drawn attention to its concern and the Executive has responded. We are grateful that the response has been so positive. There is little to be gained from insisting on the motion because, as has rightly been said, there would be negative financial consequences for a number of rural practices. We must take that on board. Given the reassurances that we have heard this morning, I am happy to withdraw the motion. Does any member of the committee object to the motion being withdrawn?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418735",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "Motion, by leave, withdrawn."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C418737",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 418737,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11196,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11196,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 418407,
      "EditedText": "I have received apologies from Trish Marwick, who is unable to be here this morning. I welcome Brian Monteith and Sylvia Jackson, who are attending today's meeting. They are not members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, but as MSPs they are entitled to be here. I understand that they both have a particular constituency interest in one of the items on the agenda. Lyndsay McIntosh has informed us that she may be late.I want to say a few words about today's meeting. We have a detailed agenda. The first part of the meeting will be an ordinary meeting of the committee, taking forward items that we are investigating. There will be a report from the reporter on domestic violence, the European document will be discussed and there will be further discussion of the petition from the Carbeth hutters. We will also take evidence on that petition.The fourth item on the agenda—Scottish prisons—will be taken only if the item on the Carbeth hutters does not run until 11.30. Item four is a provisional item to ensure that the committee does not have to adjourn for 15 or 20 minutes after the evidence on the Carbeth hutters has finished. The committee has been discussing prisons since the beginning of September and it seems reasonable to hold a brief discussion about the most recent announcements.Item five on the agenda is a debate on a motion in my name to annul the amendment regulations considered at our previous meeting. As committee members will recall, we decided on that course of action because of concerns about some of the contents of the statutory instrument. The debate may last for up to 90 minutes, although I hope that it will take far less time than that. The Deputy Minister for Justice, Angus MacKay, is expected to attend. Under rule 10.4.2 of standing orders, he has a right to participate, although if there is a division he cannot vote. That is also the case for the two visiting members, should they still be in attendance at that stage in the proceedings. The minister is not appearing as a witness to be questioned and I ask committee members to remember that.After debating the legal aid regulations, we will consider our report to Parliament on our conclusions. We must do that by the end of the 40-day period that applies to the regulations as a whole. That means that the report would need to be published before the next meeting of the committee, which is why the final item on the agenda is a consideration of the draft report circulated in advance of today's meeting.I propose that item six, the consideration of the draft report, be taken in private. It has long been recognised—as far back as the consultative steering group—that considering draft committee reports is something that it is appropriate for committees to do in private. The Presiding Officer recently endorsed that. If committee members have any concerns, I point out that it would be extremely difficult to discuss in public the terms of a document that is not available to the public and cannot be made public until after the committee has made a decision on it. In those circumstances, it would not be appropriate to make public an expression of the committee's views until the whole committee had endorsed the document.Before we continue, I ask members for formal agreement to take item six in private. Are we agreed?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418409",
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      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 418409,
      "EditedText": "Item one on the agenda is a progress report on the committee's investigation of domestic violence and the issue of interdicts. Committee members will recall that, at the last meeting, we designated Maureen Macmillan to be the reporter on the issue. We now have a brief opportunity to hear from Maureen about who she has spoken to since then and what further action she intends to take."
    },
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  },
  {
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 418410,
      "EditedText": "On 14 October, I visited the Scottish Legal Aid Board, with Richard Walsh, the senior assistant clerk. We met Lindsay Montgomery, the chief executive, and Catriona Whyte, the solicitor to the Scottish Legal Aid Board. They were aware of the committee's discussions on the possibility of extending interdicts and powers of arrest. They were disappointed that they had not been asked to come and speak to us and they raised some issues, mostly of a technical nature. I do not think that it is appropriate to go into that at the moment.I wanted to ask them about the possibility of the extension of the interdict being treated in the same way as criminal legal aid, so that women could access it freely, without paying contributions. If that were not possible, I wondered whether the contributions could be mitigated in some way and we discussed that. We discussed the difference between civil legal aid and criminal legal aid. The Scottish Legal Aid Board was of the opinion that there would be human rights implications for people seeking remedies through civil legal aid if that distinction were to be changed in one context. That is a matter that we could investigate further.The Scottish Legal Aid Board thought that part of the problem is that family credit is included when calculations are made to determine eligibility for civil legal aid. That can be examined.We also discussed the length of the repayment period. At the moment, the repayment period is 10 months. A pilot scheme that allows a longer repayment period is due to be assessed at the beginning of next month. If the repayment period is extended, that will have financial implications for the Scottish Legal Aid Board's funds.Those are the areas that we can pursue in connection with women affording protection, if protection can be extended to a greater number of women. That was everything of substance that we discussed. Perhaps Richard has something to add?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 418412,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any questions on the issues that Maureen has raised?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11197,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 418415,
      "EditedText": "It might be possible for Maureen, in collaboration with the clerk, to write up the notes of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 418419,
      "EditedText": "I would like to talk to the Crown Agent about the implications for the fiscal service. I would also like to revisit the Family Law Association with our new proposals; we have moved on since our previous meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 418420,
      "EditedText": "So your next step is to go and see the Crown Agent and the Family Law Association."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 418421,
      "EditedText": "Has Maureen had the opportunity to consider the final work plan prepared by the Scottish Partnership on Domestic Abuse?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 418423,
      "EditedText": "We may be asked to debate the matter later this week and it would be helpful to see the plan before that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11197,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 418424,
      "EditedText": "There is a debate on Wednesday afternoon on an Executive motion that refers to the final work plan. I do not think that the final work plan has been published yet. A draft work plan was published in March 1999. That will give people an indication of the way in which the partnership is progressing. Everybody should have a copy of that. I hope that as many members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee as possible will request to speak on Wednesday afternoon. Because of the work that we have been doing, we have much to add to the debate.I do not think that the final work plan has been published yet; I suspect that it will be published tomorrow morning.Are there any other questions for Maureen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 418425,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document ",
      "HeadingID": 11198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 11198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 418427,
      "EditedText": "I have two brief comments. The directive is important. It is on a reserved matter and is therefore not for us to discuss in detail, but the problems in the directive are the development risks, which are noted in the paper. Another problem is what to do with second-hand appliances, particularly white goods. There is also the matter of the installation and servicing of appliances. A safety of services directive is passing through the Commission at the moment. If we were to make any comment, it would be in the areas that I have just outlined, but if we are just noting the document, fair enough. There are, however, some important issues in the document, which I hope the European Committee will take into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 418445,
      "EditedText": "They went up even further. I have a couple of brochures, headed \"Chalets at Carbeth Estate – How to Buy\" from 24 November 1997 and 27 February 1998. They show that the monthly rent was to be £90 a month—just over £1,000 per annum. I have a spare copy of those brochures that I can deposit with the clerk if members wish to refer to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 418446,
      "EditedText": "That is helpful as a base."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 418451,
      "EditedText": "Yes, on top of the rent. I need to point out that there are hundreds of huts all over Scotland—and England. We have visited eight hut sites. The rents there ranged from £55 a year to £200. The hutters are complaining about the rise to £200, having heard of the rents being asked at Carbeth."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 418456,
      "EditedText": "We have brought some photographs displayed on boards, if members would like to see photographs of the huts and the estate, to get a clearer idea of the site."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 418457,
      "EditedText": "Shall I pass them round?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 418458,
      "EditedText": "Yes, please hand them to the nearest members. Do the two boards display the same photographs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 418459,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 418462,
      "EditedText": "Exactly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 418466,
      "EditedText": "Just by virtue of the fact that so little has been spent on upgrading the site and looking after it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 418467,
      "EditedText": "Are the huts on the photos that I have in front of me ones that have been abandoned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 418468,
      "EditedText": "They are huts that have reverted to the ownership of the estate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 418474,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 418478,
      "EditedText": "We are campaigning for a bill on rent control for residential huts and chalets that are fixtures to the ground, which was defined in a House of Lords ruling on the Welsh hutters' case two years ago. We think that that could be done in Scotland and that it is the only way in which this situation can be resolved. The Rent Registration Service, a body that is already in existence, could adjudicate on rent disputes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 418482,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 418484,
      "EditedText": "They have changed entirely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 418490,
      "EditedText": "There is a tap for every 16 or so huts and there has been some construction of new tracks. A cliff was pulled to pieces by a JCB and the pebbles and rocks from that were partly distributed around the estate. I have a third document that I can lodge with the clerk, which is a report by Robert Balfour, who is, I believe, soon to become the new convener of the Scottish Landowners Federation. He is also a land surveyor. He toured Carbeth estate and, after examining the surfaces, he estimated that their value was around £50 per annum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 418492,
      "EditedText": "So, is it your position that there is no correlation between the rent increases that are being sought and the services provided by the landlord?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 418497,
      "EditedText": "It favours the landlord entirely. There are around 56 stipulations in the lease on what hutters must or must not do. The sole obligation on the landlord is to let land—of, I think, 20 ft by 30 ft—for a year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 418499,
      "EditedText": "We have considered that. Sixteen or a dozen cases are on-going—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 418505,
      "EditedText": "We signed the new lease in 1993. We received two letters, one in the morning post and the other in the afternoon post, before we signed the new lease. I have the letters here if members wish to see them. The first letter said that great changes would be made to the Carbeth estate but that we had to sign the new lease for those changes to be made. The letter received in the afternoon post said that our tenancies were terminated, so if we did not sign the new lease we would be evicted. We had no option—we either walked away from our huts or signed the lease."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 418506,
      "EditedText": "Can you give a brief summary of what the previous leases had been like?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 418508,
      "EditedText": "They had the 40 days clause."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 418514,
      "EditedText": "I have not visited those huts, although some of our members have visited huts in Wales."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 418515,
      "EditedText": "I have visited them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 418516,
      "EditedText": "The huts that I referred to were those on the eight sites in Scotland. They were built in exactly the same way as our huts were built. They were built a wee bit at a time—a foundation was laid and they were built bit by bit, stick by stick. Nearly all huts were built like that. Some new chalets are being built differently, but huts are built in the same way across the country. They are not prefabricated—people bring wee bits at a time. They have been built that way in England."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 418517,
      "EditedText": "The crucial point under debate in the case of the Welsh huts, which lasted more than eight years and which ended with the hutters winning in the House of Lords, was whether the huts were part of the ground—whether they could be moved without being destroyed. That may be the definition of a hut—it cannot be moved without being destroyed because of the way in which it is built. It is a legal fiction, as the estate would have it, that one can just pick up one's hut and transport it to the back garden or whatever. Quite apart from planning laws, that is not physically possible. Perhaps the committee could consider how to frame legislation so that it covers only huts such as those in Carbeth. The other issue is the clause in the lease that states that hutters must have another principal place of residence. According to the courts, we have no protection under any housing legislation. A hut is a piece of property that is owned by one person, and placed, with permission, on the land of another person. It cannot be moved from that land without being destroyed. That differentiates hutters from those who use, for example, caravan sites."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 418521,
      "EditedText": "That seems to be case. I cannot speak about the history of the case with any certainty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 418523,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 418527,
      "EditedText": "We would like the Rent Registration Service to take that arbitration role. The service deals with housing rents and we do not see any problems in its dealing with ground rents or site rents for huts and chalets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 418531,
      "EditedText": "We think that that is very important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 418534,
      "EditedText": "You then said that you had heard, or had been sent communication—I am not quite sure which—indicating that the rent would be going up to £888. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 418537,
      "EditedText": "In 1997 it would have been £888. The landlord could have added any increases he wanted up to the present moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 418538,
      "EditedText": "The rent figures that have been given by the estate have gone up and down considerably in the past couple of years. At the moment the estate is advertising huts at £68 a month, which, at a quick guess is just over £800 a year. The figure in our book comes from documents that were issued by the estate at the end of 1997 and the beginning of 1998. Those documents quote a rent of £90 a month, or £906 per annum. The cost of paying £90 a month would be £1,080 per annum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 418542,
      "EditedText": "There is a lot of paperwork and a lot of figures.I would like to ask Heather Martin a question. I understand that you started renting in October 1996."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 418544,
      "EditedText": "Is it correct that you purchased a hut for £10?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 418546,
      "EditedText": "Did you then demolish that and invest in creating a new hut?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 418549,
      "EditedText": "The track was covered with rubble from quarrying that the estate owner had been doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 418554,
      "EditedText": "Have you been on strike more or less since you gained entry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 418555,
      "EditedText": "I joined the campaign with the other hutters at Carbeth at the same time as everyone else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 418557,
      "EditedText": "The amount of money that I have paid to the estate is relevant to the court case that is going on between me and Mr Barns-Graham, so I should not comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McQueen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 418559,
      "EditedText": "I would like to point out that the roads are just rubble. It is not hard core. The landlord has talked about the cost of putting that stuff on the road. He wanted planning permission to build a house and had to remove 2.5 m of cliff and cut it back at an angle. That resulted in thousands of tonnes of rubble being scattered all over the place. You could not walk on a lot of the roads, nor could you take a car on them. We are not really talking about roads here—we are talking about rubble that has been put on top of the original paths."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5830665+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 418572,
      "EditedText": "There are various documents in Stirling planning department. I have a couple here, which I will leave with the clerk. There is a letter from David Egerton, development control manager in planning services. It states:\"I would invite you to consider a further meeting with officers to discuss the potential comprehensive redevelopment . . . of the chalet complex\".There is a handwritten note of a meeting of 24 November 1995. It mentions\"relocation of areas within estate, timescale for relocation of areas . . . New numbers would be dependent on size of area.15 per acre? (ie caravan standards)\". Mr Smith, one of the trustees, has assured us that at the moment there are no plans for development. We believe him and take his word on that, but the evidence from the planning department is that plans have been discussed with it, although nothing concrete has been put in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.598687+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C418573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 418573,
      "EditedText": "Do you accept that if this committee—or the Parliament—introduced legislation of the type that you might want, the current proprietor could immediately issue eviction notices for everyone, including those who are paying, and do something else with his land? For all that you might feel that you have a just campaign, everybody might lose in the end because he might feel that any new regulations would be onerous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.598687+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 418574,
      "EditedText": "We hope that any legislation would stop this whole affair, which has been messy and unnecessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.598687+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 418576,
      "EditedText": "We hope that it would prevent this from happening anywhere else. We believe that there are 600 hutters across Scotland and hope that legislation would prevent a repeat of this fiasco anywhere else. We believe that the land is unusable for any other purposes. It is too poor for any agricultural use other than grazing, and much of it has ancient woodland on it. The land is in the green belt outside Glasgow. We believe that the landlord has concluded that, short of gaining planning permission to redevelop—which he is unlikely to get—the huts are the best income. We hope that legislation will force him to negotiate. We have had a couple of meetings, one with the local MPs—Anne McGuire and Tony Worthington—and representatives of the estate. We hope to continue to negotiate. At one of the most recent meetings—last week, in the presence of Anne McGuire and Tony Worthington—the estate was speaking in a friendly tone. We welcome that, but yesterday every hutter was sent out a newsletter from Mr Barns-Graham. I will quote parts of it: \"our attempts . . . has been sabotaged by those who continue to lie and misinform . . . This is the type of insult, typical of those who claim to represent the hutters . . . libellous . . . How do we know whether the same fires were not started by those connected with the strike for the purpose of gaining sympathy support . . . Lies, misinformation and ridiculous claims . . . Deliberate lies, . . . proven to be lies . . . silly . . . It is untrue, it is also an insult, . . . It is also an insult. . . . It is about time that the lies and the bullying stopped . . . why can they only lie about Carbeth?\"All of that is in a three-page document, which I will also leave with the clerk, sent to all hutters yesterday in the wake of the negotiation meeting that we had with Anne McGuire and Tony Worthington last week. That is the estate trying to be conciliatory."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.598687+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 418581,
      "EditedText": "Leaving aside the Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1907, I take it that there has never been security of tenure. This is a lease signed willingly by two parties to a tenancy agreement, which says that either party can terminate it within 40 days. How would we prevent that from happening?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 418582,
      "EditedText": "It has always been signed on trust. The fact that there are people on the site who have been there for 50 years shows that trust had been maintained until two or three years ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ballance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 418584,
      "EditedText": "That is right. I should speak carefully here, but people have agreed to say under oath that that has been said to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 418588,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I have. I did not want to interrupt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.614315+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 418593,
      "EditedText": "That is not my understanding, although I do not know for sure. I could not say definitely. I know that the estate management always tries to get two jobs for one, so it may well be the case that the removal of the cliff assisted with other work. Refuse is removed by the council but the vehicles have to get up there to take it away. If we had not used the material from the cliff for road bases and hard standings for rubbish bins, we would have had to bring other material to the site, which would obviously have cost even more money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 418596,
      "EditedText": "I refer to the submission that we have received from the proprietors, in particular to paragraph 7 on page 2, about the rent strike, and to the key points in paragraph 8 on page 8. They refer to the number of huts. How many huts are there? It is not at all clear to me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tony Meehan (Adviser to the Proprietors of Carbeth Estate): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 418598,
      "EditedText": "There are 169 huts. Of those, 93 are paying rent. There are 20 unoccupied huts—huts that are either unoccupied or have no leases attached to them. There are 18 derelict huts, which are just wood sitting on a piece of land. We believe that, therefore, the number of striking hutters—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 418599,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, I was going to come to some of those matters in a minute. I need to establish exactly how many owners there are. You say 169."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Meehan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 418602,
      "EditedText": "Yes, 20 are unoccupied, and 18 are derelict. So if you take 38 from 169, you will have the number of leases that are currently in force or the number of people in residence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 418607,
      "EditedText": "So 38 are on strike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 418608,
      "EditedText": "You are saying to the committee, as you say in your submission, that 93 hutters are up to date with their payments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Meehan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 418609,
      "EditedText": "Which is Mr Barns-Graham's terminology for paying rent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 418612,
      "EditedText": "A dispute about rent, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 418616,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 418618,
      "EditedText": "No. Eviction notices were served on 80 people at the start of the dispute. Since that time, some of the people who received eviction notices have decided to pay their rent. Hence the change in the figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 418619,
      "EditedText": "Of those who have paid, how many decided to pay after the eviction notices were served?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 418620,
      "EditedText": "I cannot do the arithmetic, but there are 38 non-payers left, so roughly half of them came back and said that they would pay the rent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1455465+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 418624,
      "EditedText": "Yes. There has been a lot of talk about trusts which, at the end of the day, are just legal entities. The grandfather's will contained a general statement that he hoped that the hutters would continue to be part of the estate and would continue to be looked after. However, as far as I know, he did not set up a trust to look after the land. His estate would have been wound up—as would anybody's—when he passed on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 418626,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 418628,
      "EditedText": "That is correct. I do not have the will in front of me, but if he said in his will that a trust had to be set up, one would have been set up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 418630,
      "EditedText": "I understand that. There was not a trust set up to look after the Carbeth hutters under the will of the late Mr Barns-Graham—the grandfather."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418635",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 418635,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask you about the lease. Do you think the lease is fair?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 418638,
      "EditedText": "Again, you need to consider this with some regard to the history of the estate. It is important to say that the principal terms and conditions of the lease—and certainly the ones that are causing concern, such as the 40-day notice condition—have been in place since around 1962, to my knowledge. That particular provision was not introduced in 1993."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418639",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 418639,
      "EditedText": "That is why I am asking you about the nature of the trust. If people believed that there was a general wish to help or protect people, they were not so worried about a 40-day notice. If you are now changing the nature of the original trust to put it on a much more commercial basis, the lease has more meaning—but you believe that the lease is entirely fair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418641",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 418641,
      "EditedText": "You used the phrase—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418642",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Meehan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 418642,
      "EditedText": "No, there was a clause in the will that indicated that the grandfather's wish was that the estate would look after the hutters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 418643,
      "EditedText": "There is a confusion here that needs to be cleared up, Pauline. You will find the direct quotation from the will—ironically—in the Carbeth Hutters Association pamphlet. It does not mention a trust; it simply mentions a wish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 418646,
      "EditedText": "I will ask my final question. The hutters association suggested that you have lodged some plans with Stirling Council. Do you have any intention of submitting plans, or have plans been submitted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418648",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 418648,
      "EditedText": "I do not wish to take up too much time, but I would add that I have been involved personally, on behalf of the estate, in nearly all the discussions that have taken place between the estate and the council. Lots of things have been explored, but at no time did any of them involve the clearance of the huts from Carbeth. I feel strongly about this: phrases have been used well and successfully by the hutters about clearances, but that never formed any part of any ideas that we have for the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418652",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Thomas Hanratty (Carbeth Hutter): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 418652,
      "EditedText": "At the beginning of this rent dispute, I was part of it. At that time, I thought that the landlord needed to be taught a lesson and that the rent hikes had to stop. I went along with the dispute for 18 months, but after reading some newsletters—which are now being passed around to members of the committee—I started to see flaws in it and to feel that we were moving away from the original issue. Mr Barns-Graham has since reduced the rent and issued circulars offering olive branches. He has asked people to come back in and said that there will be no reprisals.After receiving one of the circulars, which, I thought, was offering not a bad deal, I approached two or three of the hutters. Since then, I have been pilloried. I have had two cars vandalised and, about a month ago, my hut was burned down. I have since been shot at. Newsletters are still being circulated, claiming that the wardens—me included—are all hooligans, drug dealers and wife beaters. We hear that every day of the week. That is why people are reluctant to come forward. You talk about people being scared—I cannae be any mair scared. I have slung the towel in, and they can dae what they like. They will no get away with it—in a democratic state, a minority cannae rule the majority. That is what is happening at Carbeth."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 519.0,
      "ContributionID": 418660,
      "EditedText": "Effectively, as opposed to legally, we cannot do that. If we do, we will end up here, in front of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ContributionID": 418661,
      "EditedText": "This is a new—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 529.0,
      "ContributionID": 418665,
      "EditedText": "In my experience, the Scottish Landowners Federation is not generally seen as a radical body, full of reforming individuals—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 418666,
      "EditedText": "That depends on the angle from which you are looking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 418669,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the committee should hear from the Scottish Landowners Federation. Gordon has one brief question and then we will allow the witnesses to leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 418674,
      "EditedText": "Thank you.I now call the representatives of the Scottish Executive, Mr Richard Grant, Ms Isobel Low and Mr Murray Sinclair.The Deputy Minister for Justice, Angus MacKay, is now in the building for our debate on the statutory instrument. We do not want to keep him waiting for too long. We are pressed for time, and I apologise to the three members of the Executive who have waited patiently and now find themselves squeezed in at the end of the morning's evidence. They have helpfully provided a paper giving the background to the Carbeth hutters and the dispute. Is it correct to say that research into huts and hut sites across Scotland is still going on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Richard Grant (Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 418675,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 418677,
      "EditedText": "Yes.First, I will introduce myself and my colleagues. I am Richard Grant, the head of housing division 2. Murray Sinclair is from the office of the solicitor to the Scottish Executive. Isobel Low is from the land division in the rural affairs department.We hope that the research will be completed and we will have a final report by the end of the year, although it may be available before then—it will be soon, in any case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 418678,
      "EditedText": "Is it fair to say that no final decision has been taken on whether legislation will be introduced, or what the nature of such legislation would be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 568.0,
      "ContributionID": 418684,
      "EditedText": "Gordon, do you have a quick question?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 574.0,
      "ContributionID": 418687,
      "EditedText": "I do not want you to settle into a long exchange, Gordon, because we have already gone beyond our time limit and the minister is waiting. I have one or two more questions. You heard the Carbeth hutters' evidence this morning. Would legislation along the lines of what they want be viable? I am not asking you for an opinion as to whether it should happen, but would their proposal be viable? If so, could it be included in the forthcoming land reform legislation? Again, I want to know whether that is possible rather that whether you think it should happen. The committee needs to know whether, technically, such legislation would be viable or possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 418689,
      "EditedText": "Basically, your position is that you are not sure at this stage whether the proposals are viable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Isobel Low (Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 418692,
      "EditedText": "The only thing that I can say at this stage is that the proposals are not absolutely impossible. Much depends on the viability issue, but it is also a matter of timing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 418693,
      "EditedText": "That is what we need to know. If something can be worked out, will it be possible to include it in the land reform bill? The committee must determine how to proceed with this issue. If certain things are technically impossible, we would cause ourselves difficulties by going down a certain road. We may want to send you further questions in written form, but now there is just time for one final quick question before we move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Grant: ",
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      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I understand the question."
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 596.0,
      "ContributionID": 418698,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming along. Although what you had to say has been somewhat abbreviated it has nevertheless helped us to clarify some of the issues that we will have to deal with if we are to take this further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 605.0,
      "ContributionID": 418702,
      "EditedText": "I have an interest in legal aid. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 611.0,
      "ContributionID": 418705,
      "EditedText": "With a lot of zeros on the end of it. Laughter.There is a motion in my name on the agenda that I think everybody will have read. I move,"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 631.0,
      "ContributionID": 418714,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that we do not pass the regulations now—I know that there are important issues relating to outlying courts—but I would like these matters to be considered as part of the continuing changes to the regulations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 633.0,
      "ContributionID": 418715,
      "EditedText": "When might the further amending regulations be ready, minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 635.0,
      "ContributionID": 418716,
      "EditedText": "Minister, the question that is being asked is one that I, too, would like to ask. What kind of time scale are we talking about in terms of amendments to the statutory instrument? I do not want to pin you down, but we would like some sort of indication of how long we are likely to have to wait. How would the time scale be affected by the issues that have been raised today?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 626.0,
      "ContributionID": 418712,
      "EditedText": "Minister, when you discuss with the Law Society amending the date of trial, will you at least consider the issues that are raised in the society's letter of 25 October? I am not entirely persuaded that it is fair to say that the services described there come under the core fee. The purpose of the core fee is to cover preparation for the trial. For the hearing itself, there is remuneration in addition to the core fee. There are likely to be situations when the preparation has been done and it is time to start the trial—which might last a number of days and would, of course, be paid for on an enhanced basis. At that point, however, serious issues may arise that involve the solicitor's being in court for as long as they would for a trial, without a trial taking place. I am not saying that that is particularly common, but there might be situations in which there is a discussion of fitness to plead—the sort of issues that are described in the letter. That is as common as the situation for which you are already prepared to legislate.There may be situations where there is a joint minute and no actual evidence is led, but that is probably less common than the issues that are raised in this letter.I would be content if there was a possibility of addressing some of the issues in the letter when an amendment is made. I am a little unhappy about saying simply that it is in the core fee, because that might not be fair in some situations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1911E107P234C418717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacKay, Angus",
      "ID": 1911,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angus MacKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 637.0,
      "ContributionID": 418717,
      "EditedText": "In my presentation, I tried to explain what the time scale might be. We are, to an extent, in the hands of the Law Society. The time scale involved will depend on how far and how wide the Law Society wants to consult. We want to act as soon as possible. We will act quickly to get the regulations to the Law Society for consultation and we already have a draft worked up, but it needs some more attention. I am unable to give you a more fixed time scale, but that gives you an indication of what we are bound by."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 639.0,
      "ContributionID": 418718,
      "EditedText": "There is concern that, if we proceed today on the basis of the assurances that amendments will be made, we might have to wait six months or a year for them. The time scale should be short rather than long, particularly because the longer we take, the more likely it is that people might be affected by the omissions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 643.0,
      "ContributionID": 418720,
      "EditedText": "If the Law Society consults on the issues that it raised with you in the letter, the likelihood is that it will get feedback along those lines about matters that it thinks might not be covered by the pre-trial fee. If that is what the Law Society comes back with after consulting, will there be scope to include that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 647.0,
      "ContributionID": 418722,
      "EditedText": "We are concerned that you do not exclude further consideration of the possibility of a trial happening without the witness being sworn."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 651.0,
      "ContributionID": 418724,
      "EditedText": "For our guidance, what evidence would persuade you? For example, would factual evidence of a trial that has gone on for four or five hours without a witness being sworn help to do so?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 655.0,
      "ContributionID": 418726,
      "EditedText": "I recognise the need for a definition, although we appear to have got by without one for some time. Are there any cost implications? Will savings be made?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1911E107P234C418727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacKay, Angus",
      "ID": 1911,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angus MacKay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 657.0,
      "ContributionID": 418727,
      "EditedText": "The purpose of providing a definition is not to make cost savings. There may be cost consequences if we do not define when a trial begins. I cannot quantify that for you, but the purpose of the regulations is to nail down an area that was imprecise and therefore did not serve the interest of any relevant party. It is not intended primarily as a cost-saving device."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 659.0,
      "ContributionID": 418728,
      "EditedText": "I accept that it is not intended to be a cost-saving device, but there should be an indication as to what the cost implications would be. Have any estimates been made?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
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      "ID": 11200,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 663.0,
      "ContributionID": 418730,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "DisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 671.0,
      "ContributionID": 418734,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 674.0,
      "ContributionID": 418736,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister. You will be glad that the motion has been withdrawn, but we look forward to being kept apprised of the further consultation. The committee now has to meet in private because, notwithstanding the fact that the motion has been withdrawn, we must report on this matter to Parliament. I am advised that that means that you, too, must leave, minister. You do not get to join in the discussion on our report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:30.1611722+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11197,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 11197,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 418417,
      "EditedText": "They would be very useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document ",
      "HeadingID": 11198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 11198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 418428,
      "EditedText": "There are some things in the document which are not reserved matters. The Scottish Executive covering note, on the page headed \"334\", says: \"Under the terms of the Scotland Act 1998 product liability is a reserved matter apart from in respect of food, agricultural and horticultural produce, fish and fish products, seeds, animal feeding stuffs, fertilisers and pesticides.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Document ",
      "HeadingID": 11198,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 11198,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 418430,
      "EditedText": "I just wanted to note that it is not entirely a reserved matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 418471,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful to refer to the little booklet, \"The Carbeth Clearances\"—the reporters could look at it—from which you have quoted rent figures and some of the history of what has happened to some of the huts. I had heard about the Carbeth hutters, but your booklet mentions 700 huts in 62 locations in Scotland. Were they all established at about the same time—in the 1930s—in the same manner as is described in the booklet? I am trying to discuss the culture of such huts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 418520,
      "EditedText": "This is a point that the witnesses may not be able to answer. The grandfather of the current owner set up a trust, the terms of which regulated the estate. When his son—the father of the current owner—died, did that trust lapse, and is some other trust functioning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11199,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ID": 11199,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 418524,
      "EditedText": "The hutters would like rights regarding management of the site. Would it follow that you would have obligations regarding the management of the site? Should those rights of management be subject to independent scrutiny? You have talked about this in terms of the environment, so how would that be achieved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2383
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 11200,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ID": 11200,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 629.0,
      "ContributionID": 418713,
      "EditedText": "I endorse what Gordon says and appreciate that the matter is urgent, but I would be unhappy if we did not deal with the matter that the Law Society has raised just for the sake of making things move more quickly. A witness might be called and a solicitor might have to deal with all sorts of situations that were not foreseen in pre-trial preparations. That would be unusual, but it should be covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:46.499272+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 284972,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon. We will continue to look at the national review of resource allocation. With us we have representatives from the Royal College of Nursing: Margaret Pullin, Sheena Cochrane and Sian Kiely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Pullin (Royal College of Nursing): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 284973,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for inviting us to give evidence. The RCN has extensive expertise in its membership so I have brought with me Sheena Cochrane, who until last month was a community manager in Renfrewshire and Inverclyde and has now been appointed manager of the local health care co-operative in Inverclyde. She has extensive experience in rural and remote areas. Sian Kiely is our research and information officer and is brilliant with figures. If you need information that we do not have here, she will be able to get you the answers by the end of the day.The RCN wholeheartedly welcomes the Arbuthnott report, which was badly needed. There are some areas that still need to be looked at and more facts and figures are needed, but it has the potential to affect health in a number of areas. The RCN has 33,000 members in Scotland. They work in all areas: acute hospitals, mental illness, learning disabilities, maternity, general practice, looking after older people and children. We are everywhere; 80 per cent of the care that is delivered in the health service is delivered by nurses or midwives. That means that we are or could be at the forefront of delivering the recommendations of the report. We recognise that the existing SHARE formula badly needed to be updated. It was only meant to last for 10 years, but it has lasted for more than 20. The formula does not reflect what is required today. Some aspects of it are not robust. For example, the sparsity index does not adequately measure the additional cost of providing nursing services over large areas, and the indicator of death rates for under-65s cannot comprehensively measure the relationship between deprivation and ill health.We are in full agreement with the terms of the review, which are that resource allocations should be as objective and needs based as available data and techniques permit. We realise that that is a problem in relation to the data that have been gathered, but the aim is to promote equitable access to health care, and we cannot be anything other than in full agreement with that.We owe it to the Scottish people to provide the best health care. It is in our interest. We are all involved in health care or we are all receivers of it at some point in our lives. Arbuthnott can help us to achieve the best health care for the Scottish people. The potential exists to deliver a much fairer way of distributing national health service resources. For example, school nurses are involved heavily in health promotion for children and young people. Health visitors look after pregnant mums, newly born children and older people, and perform many other functions. Sheena Cochrane can talk to you about that. Practice nurses work in general practitioner surgeries, and you will all be aware of the many health initiatives that they undertake, such as screening for cancer and asthma. The nurses that we need to highlight are the combined duty nurses in rural areas and island communities. They are often the first point of referral, and the only access that people in such areas have to a health professional. The Arbuthnott report tackles head-on the costs of remoteness and rurality.To finish, deprivation is of major concern to all of us. The report addresses the additional costs of providing health care to people in deprived and socially excluded communities, and we must commend the Arbuthnott group for its emphasis on that matter and for recognising the strong links between morbidity, mortality and deprivation. Health boards with a higher level of ill health will be those that have a higher level of deprivation as shown by the indicators—for example, unemployment and poor housing, which have a major effect on health.To sum up, we welcome the report. We were delighted that Kay Eastwood, the director of nursing services at Lomond and Argyll Primary Care NHS Trust, was on the steering group. We are pleased to see the emphasis on nursing's contribution to health care. Often it is regarded as virtually invisible, but this report has certainly not made the nursing input invisible, and we welcome that. We owe it to the people who work in the health service to get this procedure right, because they are not just workers in the health service; they make use of it as well. It is the job of nurses, along with other health professionals and those who work in the health service, to ensure that a fair and equitable service is delivered throughout Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane (Royal College of Nursing): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 284976,
      "EditedText": "Nurses who work in remote areas must possess numerous skills: they must be midwives, district nurses and health visitors. As you rightly said, often they must deal with certain types of emergency treatments—not medical treatments, but nursing treatments. Many of those nurses have extensive skills that they require to undertake their duties. To acquire those skills, they require extra training, which can be costly. In remote areas, they are often the first or only point of contact and they work in a triage manner to ensure that patients receive the most appropriate type of treatment.Let me provide an analogy. If I am a nurse in Glasgow who must undertake a day's training, and the only place that I can undertake that training is in Edinburgh, all that is required of me is that I get on a train and go to Edinburgh for the day, undertake the training and return. However, if I am a nurse who is working in a remote area—Interruption."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 284979,
      "EditedText": "To recap, if I am a nurse in Glasgow who needs to undertake training in Edinburgh, I may need to take a day off work to receive that training. However, if I live in a remote area or on an island, the costs are very different. First, there are travelling costs: it may take a day to travel, it may then take a day to undertake the training, and there are accommodation costs. There are also extra allowances to pay to individual nurses who are away from their homes for a certain length of time, and there are replacement costs for those nurses while they are receiving the training. In an urban area there are normally colleagues who possess the skills to cover for them while they are away; in remote areas an experienced nurse may have to be brought in to deputise for that individual, which again implies a great cost. If we want such nurses to be skilled, we must ensure that they have training to underpin all that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 284984,
      "EditedText": "There is no mechanism of which you are aware?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sian Kiely (Royal College of Nursing): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 284987,
      "EditedText": "In the information that is available there is some very good evidence from nursing, in particular from district nursing and health visiting. The data have been collected on the number of home visits and the number of people that each health visitor and district nurse visits in a year, for example.Regarding the specific information that nurses can help with, many nurses are in a good position to collect data on the needs of a local population. A school nurse, for example, can collect good information about the health needs of the children in the school area that she looks after. The issues that have to do with the localities and communities in which the nurses work can be linked to deprivation.A practice nurse can provide information on the GP population and can carry out needs assessments of that population. That will bring in issues to which the report relates, such as deprivation, morbidity and mortality. The burden that that might place on nurses has been mentioned, but many nurses are already collecting that information in order to influence their own practice and to assist them in their discussions with other professionals on what is the best care that they can provide for patients in their area. Many nurses have those skills and are interested in and willing to participate in those issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 284991,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sian Kiely: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 284997,
      "EditedText": "The work of nurses in health promotion and health education can involve examining the multiple circumstances associated with deprivation—diet, drug issues, alcohol—and the housing and social circumstances of patients. They can provide that link in health promotion and health education activities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 285003,
      "EditedText": "One of the problems with the lack of data from the community services and so on is that the review has almost stopped, rather than taking us in the direction of greater use of primary care and care in the community. Those are areas in which nursing is at the forefront, whereas, to a large extent, most of the data that are already there are from the acute services. That issue has been brought up in many of the submissions that we have received so far. Community services can be developed in future if we have that extra data.John Forbes is our expert, as opposed to all of us, who are—I am not quite sure what we are, actually; I hesitate to call us amateurs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 285005,
      "EditedText": "I agree. One of the most obvious indicators is substance abuse, while the age of the mother is also relevant. I am sure that employment has a significant impact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Forbes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 285006,
      "EditedText": "That would increase the work load and the need for services in a particular area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Forbes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 285012,
      "EditedText": "I have one further question, which is on the formula for determining nurses' work load. Has there been any attempt to include some of the social, economic and deprivation factors that were identified by the Arbuthnott report in generating a work-load estimate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 285016,
      "EditedText": "Thanks. I am sure that we will follow that up, either now or in our future work. However, I want to return to my original point. In general, would it be true to say that you do not have any substantial concerns about the methodology and conclusions of the Arbuthnott report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 285019,
      "EditedText": "That is not an easy problem to deal with because, as you say, local authority areas are very diverse. I think that the solution is to get the right people on the LHCCs or, rather, the sub-groups of the LHCCs. We need to have patient representatives. It is difficult for professionals to include patients, but we are making progress on that. There are mechanisms to involve patients, such as audits and questionnaires, as well as one-to-one conversations. People also write in with complaints—we may not like that, but we can learn from it. Representation needs to be as wide as possible, and patients need to be more involved. This is not about what we as professionals believe is required, but about what the patient feels is important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 285020,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the welfare of the nurses as a factor in the well-being of patients. Before I go on, could anyone update me on the current so-called wastage, both in training and in the early years of service, when many nurses drop out for various reasons? Apart from the old enemy—back problems—the reasons for that nowadays include violent patients and even problems that could be more easily tackled, such as needlestick injuries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 285024,
      "EditedText": "It might, therefore, also be irrelevant to ask about the impact of agency nursing and whether that is the most efficient way of providing the service. However, I regard that as relevant to the Arbuthnott report and to health funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 285029,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that answer. We have to accept that, if the cuts are spread over four years, they may be slightly less painful. However, if there is no new money, the same pot will be available and there will be losers as well as winners. I go along with your sentiments; we must start to address the link between poverty and ill health, and Arbuthnott is a small step in the right direction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 285030,
      "EditedText": "Your submission is very much about welcoming this and welcoming that—it is very complimentary. I would have liked a more rigorous analysis. In addressing deprivation and inequality, what is your wish list? What would you like nurses to do to address those issues? I know that similar questions have been asked, but I do not feel that we have got to the heart of your contribution to those areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Pullin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 285031,
      "EditedText": "Our organisation has 33,000 members in Scotland, who have great skills and expertise as well as the willingness and ability to address all the major concerns. Nurses want to do that, have the skills to do it and would like to be assisted in doing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 285037,
      "EditedText": "The point is that if—as you have said—that is unsatisfactory at the moment, how would you correct the formula?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sian Kiely: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 285038,
      "EditedText": "The current formula relates to the distance that a patient lives from the GP's surgery; to amend that formula we would need to consider the nursing services that are not tied to the GP surgery, but based in the community. We need to consider more than where the patient lives; we must take into account the overall provision of community services within a patient's local area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 285039,
      "EditedText": "Would you like to take some form of mean measurement of the extra mileage used by nurses outwith that sort of practice? It is all very well to say that there is a problem with the formula, but the difficulty in Arbuthnott is to reach some form of standardisation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 285045,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Pat Dawson (Scottish Association of Health Councils): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 285048,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, convener and members of the committee. On behalf of the health councils in Scotland, I want to say how pleased we are to have been invited along today. I wish it had been to talk about something that was easier to digest and on which I could make more value judgments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 285052,
      "EditedText": "First, I would like to thank you for a radical and refreshing submission. You have made suggestions that other people have not—yours is the only body to have raised the fundamental and thought-provoking question of health boards.I want to home in on one sentence in your submission. You write:\"Are our Health Boards' boundaries promoting and perpetuating inequalities in health care?\"What do you mean by that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 285055,
      "EditedText": "I thought that you were going to go on to ask another question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 285065,
      "EditedText": "I welcome this outbreak of radicalism that is sweeping the Health and Community Care Committee. Who will man the barricades?Is your point that you are not unhappy with the methodology that is enshrined in Arbuthnott, and that you are not unhappy with the health boards, but that you are unhappy with the marriage between the two? Would you be happier if we stuck with the current structure but with a different, or at least amended, methodology?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 285066,
      "EditedText": "I think that you heard some radicalism this morning when Professor Graham Watt talked about the end of the microscope that you were looking down. He suggested that the wrong question was being answered. My view is that the wrong question has been asked of Arbuthnott. I would have extended the scope of the review. I would have asked, \"If we cannot come up with a resource allocation through care programmes, why are we not going back to the people who set the scope to tell them that within that scope we cannot answer the question?\" I would have asked to have the scope extended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 285067,
      "EditedText": "The next part of your submission addresses the acute services review, which has already been referred to this morning. One of the terms of reference for that review was that it would not be constrained by the existing construct. Presumably, if there is to be a standing or an ad hoc body, that remit would be a more appropriate one for it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 285068,
      "EditedText": "The questions that we have asked about whether health board boundaries decrease or increase inequalities are fair ones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 285071,
      "EditedText": "Direct funding of trusts is an option if health boards are scrutinised. I am not suggesting that that would be the only way of providing funding, but it is one possibility. However, assumptions would have to be made about whether our current trust structure supports equitable health care with regard to geography and other factors. Because of the need for accountability, one issue cannot be addressed without addressing the other.I make a plea to develop and promote seamless and integrated care across boundaries, including the voluntary sector. I hope that you will receive evidence from a number of organisations to support that view.With regard to delivering care, questions need to be asked about how health boards, local authorities and other partners take risks with the money that they devolve and the people to whom they devolve it. I think that it is within the realm of Scottish intellect to solve that problem and I believe that that will be one of your findings when you address community care.On the issue of unmet need, I cite in the submission a recent Royal College of General Practitioners North East Council conference at which we looked at inequality in health care provision. The analysis in chapter 15 of the report is about different operation rates and other indicators of deprivation. My submission draws the committee's attention to barriers to people even getting into the system. We can count the number of people in the system but not those who are not. There is also unmet need in terms of people using the wrong services. We do not count that terribly well. I would have hoped that a range of other issues would be explored in terms not just of utilisation but referral patterns. For example, why do some GPs in some areas refer more patients for certain types of interventions? It is not just about the expression of unmet need through demand but clinical practice acting as a barrier to need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 285075,
      "EditedText": "Far be it from me to suggest something to one of our sub-groups—I cannot remember who is on our sub-group on access to services, but would they like to consider the hidden costs of patient transport? They do not have to make any suggestions, but they could ascertain whether this is an issue that the committee should address. I think that Pat has raised some very important points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 285076,
      "EditedText": "I have a supplementary on this issue. One concern that I have, Pat—I am interested in whether you share it—is that the acute services review, with its apparent, quite rational, centralisation of some services, will affect the rurality element in this report and has not been taken into account. That is fair enough, because the review was based on current or historical need, but are you concerned that the formula is out of date before it is implemented, because of the acute services review?We have decided, for example, that everyone in Edinburgh should travel to Glasgow for paediatric surgery. The numbers are tiny, but does Lothian Health get a 0.000001 index because its service has been removed to Glasgow and there is an additional element of transportation and other costs involved in that process? The answer is no, because Edinburgh is not thought of as rural."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 285079,
      "EditedText": "Pat, I agree with you about the extraordinary complexity of this document. It is difficult for informed stakeholders on health councils to understand it—never mind patients. Busy hospitals are unlikely to have time to comprehend the document while they are trying to implement it.You make the point that\"Patients and the public gave clear messages to politicians that they did not want market driven or two tier services in their NHS.\"First, could you expand on that? Secondly, you say that\"people who seek to highlight inequalities are repeatedly told that lack of resources is the reason.\"Given that you and, I think, all of us have clocked that only a small sum of money is being moved around, rather than anything new being added—I know that that will not go down well with the convener, but never mind—what is wrong with the remit of this report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 285080,
      "EditedText": "Pat, the first question was about transparency and the complexity of the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 285081,
      "EditedText": "No, convener, I was agreeing with her on that. The point was that the message was being delivered to politicians that patients did not want market-driven or two-tier services in the NHS."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 285082,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to answer that, Pat?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 285083,
      "EditedText": "It is safe to say that the idea of a market-driven service, involving consumerism, purchasing and fundholding, did not go down well with the Scottish public. Nor did they like the effects of that. They do not want people to get better services depending on where they live, the colour of their skin or any other determinant. Recently, we have heard how gender can affect access to coronary artery bypass grafting. We have to ensure that our service is equitable in terms of resource allocation and in the view of the Scottish public.No organisation that represents patients or patient interests would deny that the reason that is given for the lack of availability of the services that people want is that the resources are not available. That may be because the necessary money is not in the appropriate budget or because there is not enough money in the pot. That is the reason behind differences in fertility services, drug rehabilitation regimes and a whole range of other services. We need to sort out those inequalities in health care, but health boards and others who manage resources will ask, \"Well, what would you have me spend the money on?\" We need to decide where we should set the priorities and how we can involve the public and politicians. That is not a theme that comes through Arbuthnott. If that is because it is considered to be a sub-health-board issue, perhaps that is a legitimate omission. However, I felt that Arbuthnott did not examine how a health board area such as Glasgow, with high levels of deprivation, could see involving people in priority setting as an overriding priority.I cannot remember what your other question was."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 285084,
      "EditedText": "I think that, earlier, you asked, \"What is this achieving?\" in relation to the rather small sum of money that is merely being redistributed. Were you criticising the original remit of the report and, if so, what is wrong with it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 285085,
      "EditedText": "I would have liked to ask the Arbuthnott committee why it did not see fit to question people about the structures to which they were giving money, whether they were suitable and why they did not come back at any stage to the people who set the scope of the remit to challenge that remit and look instead at more innovative ways to deliver equitable health care and social inclusion strategies, joining up different strands of Government policy. None of those questions seems to have been asked. There seems to be an assumption that a medical, scientific and statistical model is driving the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Forbes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 285088,
      "EditedText": "This may be a difficult issue to consider, but your initial comments on the transparency of the formula suggested that you might have ways of identifying the steps that could be taken to reduce the extent to which people are disenfranchised by such a complex formula. Do you have any suggestions as to what steps could be taken?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 285089,
      "EditedText": "Compared with the implementation of \"Designed to Care: Renewing the National Health Service in Scotland\", we have spent more time today debating health policy in Scotland than we have ever spent in the past. We have made a huge advance today by talking in public with school children, members of the public and the media present. We hope that the message is starting to go out.Arbuthnott chose to use a formula, to which the vast majority of people in Scotland would say, \"Shock, horror; it is all about maths and sums\"—they would not engage with something involving figures and how they interrelate. That meant that you were up against it before you even started trying to make resource allocation interesting. The message should be about the benefits that patients are going to derive. You have to win on that message: things will be better for patients in Scotland. That message is muddled and there are some areas where there will be big losers. Representatives from Shetland Health Board, who will be speaking later, have their own questions about how they should go about telling the population of Shetland that the board will receive less funding over the next few years because things are more equitable. Will people understand? No, although the little book makes a start. All policy and health board documentation, and any other documentation that follows, needs to be in a format that is reasonably understood by everybody. We need to engage with the media, voluntary organisations and a range of stakeholders in order to promote those messages. We were up against it with the Arbuthnott report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 285090,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Pat. We all learned a great deal from that and we will raise some of those matters with the Minister for Health and Community Care tomorrow. I am sure that you will return to talk to us on many other issues. For the benefit of the people in the public gallery, I should say that we are not being handed cheques or wads of money in those brown envelopes. They are from the official report, which wants clarification on points that people have made in their contributions. We are running behind schedule, so—if everyone agrees—we will have an unofficial break at this point, after which we will hear from Pat Frost from the NHS Confederation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 285091,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Frost: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 285096,
      "EditedText": "Definitely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 285097,
      "EditedText": "Given that response, do those bodies accept that the methodology employed by Arbuthnott was rigorous and acceptable? Notwithstanding that there will be winners and losers, as Kay Ullrich said, is there a general acceptance of Arbuthnott's recommendations? We have heard from a number of witnesses today that this should be only the first step, but what is the view of your members about where we should go after this phase?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 285105,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in what you said in your submission about long-stay services. You wrote:\"Many long stay services have now been transformed to community based services . . . We must establish how big a problem this is for the robustness of the formula.\"I have been thinking about that for a while and I am not entirely sure what the answer is. Sir John Arbuthnott's written statement says quite clearly that all that has been taken account of and that a health board that has transferred most care from a hospital into the community would not be penalised. You referred to Lothian's submission, one of the main points of which is that those who have moved to new care models may be disadvantaged. Lothian points out that data based on traditional forms of care are a key source of information. Were you flagging that up as something to be looked at, or do you have similar concerns to those expressed by Lothian about boards that are further down the road of, say, closing learning disability beds or having more community mental health services disadvantaged under the formula? Alternatively, are those concerns based on a misunderstanding, as Sir John Arbuthnott says?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Frost: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 285106,
      "EditedText": "I think that Lothian feels that it would be disadvantaged under the formula. Any study must use the data that are available, but it is clear that the way in which we measure community services produces less robust and less all-encompassing data than the way in which we measure institutional services does. To reassure boards that are in Lothian's position, we would need to show that the measures being used will accurately reflect need and the funding that is required to sustain the replacement services. I am talking about a situation in which a service where it is easy to count the people in beds is being replaced with a style of service in which the measure that might be used—and this is very common—is the number of face-to-face encounters between a health professional and a patient or someone in community care. The robustness of the data is important, as is whether there are enough data on the new style of service to be reflected in the funding formula. Those are the key problems, and we need the committee to provide more information on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Frost: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 285108,
      "EditedText": "It depends on what you are asking the report is fair about. Health boards that perceive a huge reduction in allocation feel that it is not fair, even though we are assured that the proposals amount not to an instant reduction but to a change in growth over time.In terms of whether the report is fair for the Scottish population and whether it will achieve anything to improve health, we must remember that we are talking about funding for sickness services. The review reflects the pattern of spending on those services. If we are to change the health of the Scottish population, we must examine much more than the health services, which are only the tip of the iceberg. You will know better that most of us, Dr Simpson, what is behind the ill health that you deal with.With regard to redressing inequalities of access to services that deal with illness, some of which is almost certainly caused—although we are not sure how—by economic, educational, housing, transport and expectation inequalities, the report is a major step forward. It is the first time that that range of factors has been taken into account in health funding. That is fair for Scotland. As to the details of who gets what, for some of the more extreme examples—I am sorry to keep going on about Shetland, but it is an extreme case—the report is not quite right or fair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Forbes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 285112,
      "EditedText": "The first point is a small one. In your submission, you mentioned that one of the weaknesses that your membership identified was the use of one-year data. Is that because the wrong year was chosen, or is a larger data set required?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Frost: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 285113,
      "EditedText": "We need a larger data set. Everybody is anxious about changing health service funding for Scotland on the basis of one year's data. That is simply not robust enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Forbes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 285116,
      "EditedText": "My second point is slightly more complex. It concerns the assessment of the overall effect of the changes on a health board that is not a winner or a loser, but is surrounded by boards that are losers. How would you gauge the impact of such a situation on the access afforded to, for example, the residents of Fife, who might be using services outside the Fife administrative area?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 285119,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Telford (Chairman, Shetland Health Board): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 285122,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for inviting us. It is a privilege to be at the Parliament at such an early stage. I also thank the staff of the Arbuthnott group, who came to Shetland and spent time going through the report with us. I do not agree with the outcome but at least they tried to help us understand how they got to it.What is missing from the basic criteria of the report is plausibility. I am an accountant and any time you produce a set of figures, the first thing you look at is the end result, and then, whether that result looks reasonable. If it does not, you query how you got there. When you look at the financial evaluation of what would have happened if Arbuthnott had been in place, the huge swings among the island boards beggar belief. Although it is not in the context of the island boards but of using the formula at a sub-board level, in paragraph 16.6 Arbuthnott raises questions about using postcode analysis within boards. Shetland only has two postcodes, so that context applies to us and we very seriously question whether the small population causes serious flaws in the formula.We must look at the impact of Arbuthnott. I know the minister has given assurances that there will not be cuts and that the formula will be phased in over time without some sort of differential growth procedure. Despite that, it is important that we have development. It is an interesting coincidence that £1.3 million, the basic figure that we would lose out on, is the same as the development fund that we have for the next four or five years of our health improvement programme. If the Arbuthnott recommendations are put in place, there will be no development in Shetland.It will be a sad day if one of the first things the Scottish Parliament does to Shetland is leave us stuck in the 20th century in health care terms while the rest of Scotland moves into the 21st century. The service cannot stand still. There is progress in health all the time. There are new drugs; for example, Shetland has a high incidence of multiple sclerosis and there are demands for beta interferon to be used more than it is. Junior doctor hours and clinical governance are also areas where there must be development. Although there may not be cuts, if there is not real and effective growth and room for new developments, health care in Shetland will be seriously disadvantaged. That is all that I want to say at the moment. I leave it to the committee to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 285125,
      "EditedText": "It is really quite a shock when one considers the losses—or the percentage changes, I should say—that Shetland will have to endure. I am surprised to hear you say that there will not be any cuts. You mention that, because of Shetland's small population, the application of this formula will lead to a high level of instability, which is obvious when the formula is spread over lower numbers. You also talk about reducing existing clinical services. The British Medical Association reckons that you will have 33 per cent fewer general practitioners. Is it simply a problem with the formula? What has gone so wrong that such a remote rural area has not benefited from the formula?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 285132,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask a supplementary to that question. Do you think that Shetland has been in a better position historically than Orkney and the Western Isles, and that, as a result, you are now experiencing a levelling-down?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 285133,
      "EditedText": "That may not be what the Arbuthnott report is about, but if we consider the present level of provision in the islands, perhaps Orkney has been badly treated by the SHARE formula and has needed an increase in funding. However, I think that the Western Isles already receives generous funding compared with Shetland. We have not been badly treated; we provide a reasonable service. However, it would not be unreasonable to be funded in line with the rest of the country and to receive our fair share of the growth for new developments.Perhaps Arbuthnott has come to these conclusions because of factors such as unemployment and benefit claims—I do not know. Although Shetland's economy is now at a delicate stage with changes such as RAF cutbacks, the economy was stronger than the economy of the Western Isles when Arbuthnott took his snapshot. However, I am not convinced that that has much to do with providing health services at the moment. Perhaps in 20 or 30 years, money ploughed into the economy will show through in health gains. I am not knocking the Western Isles, but I am not sure whether putting an extra £7 million into that health service will benefit the health of the population quickly. However, taking a few million pounds out of the health service in Shetland would have a negative impact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 285135,
      "EditedText": "I do not know. However, we think that the end result is wrong in our case. There are two possible reasons for that. Either the methodology is wrong for the small number of people on the islands; or the whole methodology is wrong. With a small board such as ours, the beauty is that the numbers are quite small and what is happening can be seen quite clearly. That might be more difficult with the diffusion of a larger board. Perhaps that is a microcosm of the much bigger problems, but I do not know that. I can only speak about our own position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 285139,
      "EditedText": "We have had disagreements about the remit of the committee. We do not, however, disagree about the immense amount of gobbledegook in the Arbuthnott report, which uses English as a third language and which is not understandable to most people.I would like to ask about Shetland's special needs vis-à-vis how it might be affected by the formula, particularly with regard to the treatment of multiple sclerosis. The rest of Scotland often looks to Shetland to see what is being done there, for example, regarding the fears in Shetland that result from the demands for beta interferon, which you want to supply. How are you affected by that special problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 285142,
      "EditedText": "It is not. Some patients in Shetland participated in clinical trials of the drug and we continue to supply it to them, but we are not prescribing it to any new patients. There are considerable doubts about its clinical effectiveness and its value, so perhaps it is not a terribly good example. It would be better to use as an example a treatment that is generally agreed as being clinically desirable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 285143,
      "EditedText": "I welcome your health board's submission because it puts the issue in perspective for me and, I am sure, for other members. We have talked about winners and losers, but the submission makes clear the effects on the so-called losing health boards.Do you agree that the review of resource allocation should have taken place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 285148,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. I have no objections to the overall objectives of the report, and we all recognise that in parts of the country there is massive deprivation. I wonder, however, whether some of the issues are connected more with economics than with health. I do not know how shifting funds around the health service will necessarily solve some of the problems quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 285154,
      "EditedText": "You said that you have cut your management costs and so on and, from your submission—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 285157,
      "EditedText": "As a supplementary point, you also said that £1.3 million was coincidentally the amount that you had put aside for development through the health improvement programme. What sort of work would you have undertaken had the anticipated growth continued?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 285161,
      "EditedText": "You indicated that £1.3 million was set aside for development and that you hoped to bring back services from the mainland to the islands. I take it that the guiding principle is that, in your view, that would improve patient care.  That would have a knock-on effect on your recruitment and retention of quality staff who could provide a better quality of service to people in the area. Do you think that that is something for which you could make a special case, given the drive to ensure that patients are treated as near to their homes as possible? Is that a way in which you could argue against Arbuthnott's recommendations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 285163,
      "EditedText": "Do you have evidence that you have looked at examples of best practice in other health board areas and that you have adapted and adopted them to ensure that your board gives best value?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 285166,
      "EditedText": "I cannot express a view on whether that is desirable, but it means that there is no scope for savings there. The poorest employees of the board were paid even less, but it meant that the board could recruit two consultant physicians whom it did not have before. There were, therefore, medical benefits, but at a cost to some of the staff. As a board, we drive costs down pretty hard. Although we have not had the reorganisation of trusts that the rest of the country has had, we have organised our own management structure and had the sad task of making one of our managers redundant earlier this year. We keep squeezing administrative costs, to put money into patient care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 285169,
      "EditedText": "I have been looking at the table. As well as figures for remoteness, there are figures for population structure and morbidity and life circumstances. The morbidity and life circumstances figure for Shetland is –8 per cent, whereas the figure for the Western Isles is +8 per cent. Many of those figures will have been calculated using the figures from the most recent census as a starting point and cranking them up. I assume that, at the time of the previous census, Shetland was doing pretty well for itself economically."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 285170,
      "EditedText": "That is correct, but when it translates into the actual cost of providing the health service, the variations are not as great as the formula would suggest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C285172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 285172,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm asked the question that I was going to ask—it was the right one to pose. The committee has considered carefully what Shetland Health Board has had to say. I ask John Telford to illustrate the second point, on the second page of his document, about non-doctor islands. It brings home what the delivery of medical services in places such as Shetland is all about. It illustrates what it is like to be the male nurse on Fair isle, for example, what that means for patient care and how that nurse liaises with his colleagues in Lerwick, never mind Aberdeen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 285173,
      "EditedText": "One of the things that I like about the Arbuthnott report is that the map on the front has Shetland in the right place—that is fairly unusual. It is not a totally facile point, as I never cease to be astonished by how many people think that Shetland is in the Moray firth and that it is a half-hour ferry journey to Aberdeen. They do not realise that it takes 14 hours, which is a different ball game. In small communities such as Fair isle, the nurse is the only medical connection that the local population has, apart from telephone calls to GPs. She—or he, to get it right for Fair isle—has to serve the population and has to keep himself up to date, when liaising with professional colleagues is difficult. Where finance allows, we are trying to take advantage of tele-medicine and conference calls. We have not reached the video stage yet—I believe that next week we are inaugurating a link from Lerwick to Aberdeen, from our accident and emergency unit to that of Foresterhill, so that we can get specialist accident consultant advice fairly quickly. After the tragic loss of the air ambulance in a crash a couple of years ago, we are all conscious that it is dangerous—not just for the patient, but for the pilots, the nursing staff and so on—to put people in aeroplanes to Aberdeen when it is unnecessary. We are aware of the distances involved. Given all the risks involved, should a nurse on Fair isle call out the air ambulance on a bad night? It is a difficult issue. From the board's point of view, keeping someone in the position to provide that service is expensive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 285174,
      "EditedText": "You were talking about people not knowing where Shetland is. As somebody who comes from the deepest, darkest central belt of Scotland, I assure you that I am aware of where it is, having landed at Sumburgh in a crosswind. Believe me, colleagues, it was not fun—I thought that my end had come. The aircraft simply drops through the wind on to the runway. It is an isolated place as far as transport is concerned—I can assure people that it is not easy getting in and out, even by air."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 285175,
      "EditedText": "We are glad that you made it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 285184,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for the commercial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 7544,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 284971,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 284978,
      "EditedText": "Sorry. Kay has a portable personal appliance in her bag. Please continue, Sheena."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 284980,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that the report has taken into account all those extra needs in rural areas? Has it considered them differently from the way in which they were considered in the past, through SHARE, recognising that it is not just a question of the distance from a GP's practice, but that there is much more to it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 284981,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. It is nothing to do with distance; it is about travel and the time that it takes. The other thing to remember is that not all nurses are GP-attached; they do all work in GP surgeries or practices. In rural areas they generally work in a geographical location that may cover three, four or five GP practices. The time that it takes to cover those distances is a real issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 284985,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure. There is a possibility of ring-fencing. That is not always a terribly good thing, and can be counterproductive. I would hesitate to say that the allowance should be ring-fenced, and I would expect the health boards to receive sufficient guidance to recognise the risk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Pullin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 284992,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I was being diplomatic in using the word guidelines. I agree that we need something stronger than guidelines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 284995,
      "EditedText": "I am delighted that in your paper you mentioned the nurse-led service that is based in Nairn. I would like to commend that service and to say that Dr Alistair Noble is absolutely first class.I would like to move on to point 3.3 in the paper. That point relates to the nursing contribution to tackling deprivation and inequality. Much of this morning's discussion has been about the reallocation of resources, but how do the witnesses see the nursing profession practically addressing deprivation and inequality?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 284998,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that there would have to be a fairly hefty shift from secondary to primary care to achieve the benefits that you mentioned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 285002,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr John Forbes (Committee Adviser): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 285004,
      "EditedText": "I would like you to consider the model that was developed for the maternity services programme of care. I draw your attention to the fact that the model appears to reveal two significant life circumstance variables: the percentage of people in non-self-contained housing and the percentage of children in lone-parent households. I invite you to consider whether, based on your experience, there might be other useful indicators in determining the relative need for maternity services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 285007,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Social isolation and family support all come into it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 285008,
      "EditedText": "Is there any evidence that the distribution of funds within a health board reflects those inequalities? When the trusts and the board are drawing up their budgets and deciding how to spend money on allocating staff and so on, is there a transparent mechanism in respect of the inequalities that the report is so intent on dealing with?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 285010,
      "EditedText": "Is it your estimation that that is true of other community services—that they are based on a historical perspective of the way in which primary care and community service have grown up, rather than actually identifying inequalities and the needs associated with them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sian Kiely: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 285011,
      "EditedText": "Reflecting on other areas of health care, particularly in the community, it may be that that is being replicated for certain areas of health care. Again, that could be dependent on previous decisions on the provision of funds. There is now more recognition of issues of deprivation and social inclusion and of the way in which many health professionals can intervene positively on lifestyle issues and in clients' and patients' lives. We suggest that the new awareness of social inclusion and deprivation makes this a good time to reassess the current distribution of care, as the report suggests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 285015,
      "EditedText": "Local health care co-operatives are an ideal opportunity to involve everyone working on health needs in an area. For example, in the LHCC with which I am involved, there are representatives from GPs, community nurses, pharmacists, the social work department, housing, partnership agencies, the local health council and others—it is not only purely health individuals who are involved. One of the things that our co-op is doing—I am sure that other co-ops are of a similar mind—is looking at health needs by getting views from local communities. At present, that is being done via partnership and focus groups. The LHCCs will be able to influence what is actually required to meet health needs, rather than what the health boards think is required. They will take account of health needs assessments, they will get the views of the local population and of the other people who are involved in the area—not just in health, but in social work, local authorities, housing and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Pullin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 285017,
      "EditedText": "With any report, there is room for criticism. However, we are reasonably comfortable with the general principle of what is being proposed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 285018,
      "EditedText": "You said in your submission that, ideally, LHCCs should be compatible with the geographical areas that are covered by local authorities. However, sometimes local authority areas straddle every social class. That can make things difficult, because if the majority of individuals in a local health care co-operative are from one part of the area, they may not have information about the whole area. How do you think that we should ensure that everybody's views and life circumstances are represented in LHCCs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 285022,
      "EditedText": "No. Honestly, convener, I think that my question is relevant. If we are wasting time and money—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 285026,
      "EditedText": "Margaret, I must apologise to you and your colleagues for having to leave in the middle of your presentation. As a Luddite by nature, I should never have allowed myself to be hooked up to new technology.I am looking at the conclusion of your paper, where you say: \"The RCN seeks assurances that no area of Scotland will be disadvantaged as a result of the changes to the formula\".We would all hope that, but the fact is that we are talking not about new money, but about reallocating between 1.5 and 2 per cent of the money that is already available. I agree that the report is a step in the right direction, but it is not the answer to Scotland's health problems. You want assurances that no area of Scotland will be disadvantaged as a result of these changes, but I say that there will have to be losers as well as winners. Could you comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 285032,
      "EditedText": "How would you take the lead?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 285034,
      "EditedText": "Health visitors would like to have a more important role in the future. Many local health care co-operatives have supported the health visiting aspect of community nursing, but it will require greater funding. Health visitors are very much to the fore in working with deprived communities. We need to identify the people who have the time—away from a case-load scenario—to undertake research into that type of work, forging the necessary links and developing the service. Health visitors dealing with public health issues could help with a lot of the problems that are related to deprivation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 285041,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Pullin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 285043,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 285044,
      "EditedText": "We will have a short break before we take evidence from the Scottish Association of Health Councils. The meeting will resume at 14:55."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 285050,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps some committee members share that view—who knows?I bring apologies from my convener and vice-convener, who, unfortunately, are unable to be here today. That is why I am here by myself.The health councils have found contributing to this review a difficult exercise. As I said in my paper, some are still engaged in carrying out their consultations, both internally and externally, and in producing their joint responses in alliance with health boards. Indeed, some are still receiving invitations to seminars to debate further some of the issues and, as lay members of the public who are acting in a voluntary capacity, to obtain technical guidance and to get up to speed on the issues and how they will affect their local area.As a result, I have received few substantive responses on which I can comment. I have, therefore, tried to construct a national critique from a patient's perspective. I am sure that the committee will tell me how well I have done that.In the small booklet that Sir John described as being in high demand, we are told that the formula should be understood by, and transparent to, the non-expert. Given my opening remarks and the smiles around the table, I suspect that, if that were the only measure of the Arbuthnott report, the report would be a failure.However, this review raises more substantive issues. Equity is at the core of the health service in Scotland. One of our main ambitions is to examine how we can better serve the public in Scotland, especially in the new political context of the power that is vested in the Executive, the Parliament and this committee.We share the review's belief in more equitable health care. However, it is extremely interesting that an analysis of inequality appears only in chapter 15 of the report. One might argue that, as consideration of a more equitable system was the review's starting point, a coherent, detailed and comprehensive analysis of the issues related to inequality and unequal health care provision should have appeared at the beginning.We believe that, in this document, there is an over-reliance on the appliance of science. That is something that I am fond of saying with regard to the clinical effectiveness agenda in health care, which delivers more complexity and raises more questions than it answers. This morning, we heard that the proportion change, in terms of resources, between the SHARE formula and Arbuthnott is very small. That raises a question about where Arbuthnott has taken us. If the substantive difference in allocation between one formula and another is so small, what have we learned from the exercise?The remit of the Arbuthnott committee is fairly broad. It is\"to advise . . . on methods for allocating the resources available to the National Health Service in Scotland\".It could be argued that it has been assumed that the method for allocating resources is through the health boards. In our submission, we ask whether there were discussions about whether health boards were the appropriate recipient of resources. We discuss the common theme of policy directives, which require health boards, local authorities and the voluntary sector to work together to provide care in the community, implementing integrated care patterns. However, the Arbuthnott review has sought to consider, in isolation, some care programmes that are to be delivered in partnership with others and co-resourced by others. That is an interesting position. Perhaps Arbuthnott could have said that there is a need to be more innovative in some parts of resource distribution. We need to develop joint practices and joint resource allocation with those partners. I believe that, this morning, one of the experts made a similar submission.As members will know, health councils operate in all parts of Scotland, and the issues raised by those in remote areas are extremely important. Over the past five years, there have been great developments in approaches to the support of health care in remote and rural areas. We welcome the establishment of the Highlands and Islands health resource centre. However, it would have been reasonable to calculate the unavoidable and inevitable fixed costs for the smaller health boards. Where do patient transport and travelling costs figure in Arbuthnott? The patient travel scheme is not itemised. Concern has been expressed about the potential differences between urban and rural deprivation.On page 4 of the SAHC submission, I have excelled in my use of numbers. After \"Inequalities in Health Care\", it should read chapter 15 and not chapter 14—that is why I am not let near money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 285051,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. It is excellent that you have come to give us the patient's point of view. We want to make use of the Arbuthnott review and all the evidence presented to the committee to improve patient care. That is at the centre of our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 285053,
      "EditedText": "In September, a motion on equity in health care provision came before our association's annual general meeting. An interesting debate followed, in which many people agreed that it is a fundamental principle and a desirable aim that we must all try to achieve. However, because of the wording of the resolution rather than because the issue is not important, some people said, \"Wait a minute. Our health board is already delivering a range of patient-care services to a higher standard than is being delivered in other health board areas.\" When the issues were analysed further, people began to ask how we could get to a position in which equity is an issue that is rounded up for rather than rounded down for, and how we could ensure that patient care is not lost or lessened because of the issue of equity.People in rural and remote areas recognise that the most important issue concerns the appropriateness of accessibility. Accessibility is different from mere access. In terms of utilisation, access means something, but for many people in Scotland, accessibility means something different. It is about whether health services are available, whether health centres are open all the time, whether services are appropriate to people's needs, whether information is available in their languages and whether health-care provision reflects the way in which people live their lives and engage with the health service. This morning, Professor Watt talked about inequity. It is not just about the patient knocking on the door of the doctor or the health service; it is about the effect of a referral. Once one has knocked on the door and seen a nurse or a general practitioner, is there equity in terms of subsequent referral, the availability of medicines or access to further treatments? We feel that a range of inequalities exist as between different health boards, as between geographical areas, as between professional groups and for a number of other reasons.Notwithstanding those inequalities, we can focus on what I refer to in the submission as the numbers game. The clear message is that the smaller the numbers—whether in clinical evidence or in statistics—the more difficult it is to get the sums right and draw the right conclusion. If that is true, why is it assumed that health boards are the critical mass to distribute NHS resources equitably? I do not know the answer to that question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 285054,
      "EditedText": "I would like to clarify what you are driving at. You suggested that perhaps the current boundaries or the current shape of the health service might not be the critical mass that we need for the future. Are you beginning to question whether health boards per se are the right type of organisation to distribute health funds and to be accountable for them, given your suggestions about partnership delivery of care programmes?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 285056,
      "EditedText": "Depending on your response to the first question, I may go on to ask another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 285059,
      "EditedText": "The conclusions from the acute services review on which I served were that there are large areas in which the acute care planning structures that we currently have need to be at higher levels than that of the health board. There are only a couple of health boards in Scotland that have the required critical mass in terms of the functionality of their hospitals, their range of specialties and all the rest of it. You could argue that, for acute hospital services in Scotland, the current number of health boards could be reduced. However, the closer you get to the patient—this is my personal belief—the more likely you are to address health inequalities. For example, you have just heard from the Royal College of Nursing about where LHCCs might take us in terms of their flexibility, their planning function and their public health contribution. I have heard committee members talk about how close they are to established geographic or practice communities. At that level, around community development, tackling health and homelessness, diet, action groups and action zones—all those areas where we look at inequalities in health—there certainly seems to be a great deal of evidence that the smaller and closer a service is to people's lives and homes, the better. That was not your question, which was about joined-up policy and whether money from different pots could make a difference in health. There is evidence that shows that money spent on housing, or in other ways, makes a difference to people's health and their quality of life. If you make a radical change in spending, you must change the way in which money is allocated and who is accountable for it. I would rather not answer that question. I prefer to suggest that it is an entirely appropriate and necessary debate for your committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 285061,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is entirely likely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 285062,
      "EditedText": "That resource allocation is perhaps something about which this committee needs to put down a marker. I do not think that we would have the time to tease that through to a conclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 285069,
      "EditedText": "You talked about reducing the number of health boards. What is your view on having trusts funded centrally? On the matter of integrated, seamless care, do you think that one budget is sufficient? If not, how would you see that care being achieved? You emphasised the issue of unmet need. Can you expand on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 285073,
      "EditedText": "There is a patient travel scheme in the Highlands and Islands. People are paid travel costs for themselves and someone to accompany them if they travel more than 30 miles to a hospital. I do not know where that fits into Arbuthnott—the question needs to be asked. The scheme also applies in areas in Argyll and Clyde and to some, but not many, areas in Grampian. You are right—a number of other organisations such as the Women's Royal Voluntary Service and a range of disease-specific organisations are transporting patients to and from hospitals, GPs and clinics—you name it, there are people in the voluntary sector doing it. Or patients have to ask family or friends to take them to and from hospital. I have raised this on a number of occasions. It is a hidden cost. Moreover, we have the ridiculous situation of some NHS premises charging patients to park in their grounds. The legality of that should be challenged. It does not make sense in relation to social inclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 285077,
      "EditedText": "You have picked a difficult example, because paediatric cardiac services are commissioned centrally, through the national services division. As I understand it, the costs are not borne by Lothian Health. Your question would have to apply to acute services where major rationalisation will take place as a result of the acute services review, and there are very few of those.At issue is how managed clinical networks will support care and whether we will lose any more cancer centres, for example. I understand that there are one or two refinements around neurosurgery and renal transplantation, but they will not have a big impact on costs to boards. However, there will still be hidden costs to patient travel. Children's services are not the best example of that, because their travel costs are met. We would need an example from the adult services. I cannot give a full answer to Dr Simpson's question, but I suspect that the effect on boards will be minimal and that there will be an added cost to patients."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 285087,
      "EditedText": "That is a motherhood-and-apple-pie question—and it has already been asked three times. I think that we will have a final point from John."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 285092,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Pat Frost (NHS Confederation in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 285094,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener.The NHS Confederation is a UK-wide body; it is the only membership body for all the health boards and trusts in Scotland. In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, it also covers those organisations. About 95 per cent of UK NHS bodies are members, but we have just set up shop in Scotland, post devolution—in April this year—and we are changing the constitution of the UK body in order to be able to do that. To date, 13 health boards and 13 trusts have become members, which is about half the organisations in Scotland—we are still pretty new. I am the organisation's acting director—that is, the start-up director. For those people who do not know me, I have spent a long time in NHS management in Scotland and England. The submission that I sent to the committee was based on input from a number of member organisations. Members will see from the submission that I cannot offer expert information, advice or knowledge, particularly on statistics. I can give an overview from a wide range of NHS bodies in Scotland that have been affected in different ways, from Shetland to Glasgow and from Lothian to the Highlands. Perhaps that is the value of my evidence today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Frost: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 285098,
      "EditedText": "I will try to tackle all those questions, but perhaps you will come back to me if my answers do not capture them all. As I said in the submission, there is overwhelming and universal support in the NHS in Scotland for the Arbuthnott report. The method of dealing with allocations is 22 years old and the world has moved on. We want to attend to different issues, not simply to fund institutions according to historical accident. The report fits in with the new objectives of the health service in Scotland and has been universally applauded for trying to direct money towards the strategic objective of fair access to better health for the nation. It is not just about access to services; it is about achieving equality in heath and, in a sense, that is what we came into this business to achieve. In terms of the methodology, members will have seen responses from Lothian, in particular, and I know that Chris Spry from Greater Glasgow Health Board is coming to talk to the committee tomorrow. The representatives from Shetland, who are speaking hotfoot after me, have serious reservations about the statistical methodology. The perception is not just that the boards that look as though they will receive more think that the methodology is great and those that will not do so well that think it is awful; the perception is that more work needs to be done to make the methodology more robust. Some of the extreme effects—particularly for the small boards, such as Shetland—show that the system is not quite right. Tomorrow, the representative from Glasgow will say that, given the problems of deprivation in Glasgow, the approach cannot be right as the shift towards Glasgow is not as great as the health board feels it should be. Borders Health Board is also very anxious. The impact on the very small boards will be huge, and the results will be harder to deal with in a small area with a small budget. The presentations to the committee by the people who ran the Arbuthnott group make it clear that there is a lot more work to be done. People are anxious to ensure that the method is robust. It may be that one formula cannot answer the needs and problems of the different areas in Scotland.You also asked what happens next. Many of the responses that I have had from organisations reflect the fact that one allocation cannot be considered in isolation, especially as health boards are now charged with working with local authorities to change the health status of large populations. In responding to that charge, people found it difficult not to stray into the area of care in the community.In trying to improve the health of the Scottish population, we cannot consider health service funding separately from other funding. Although the Arbuthnott committee identified a great many factors around the different aspects of deprivation, it considered them at a macro level. We must do further work to discover what needs to be done in different population groups. The groups that responded to us said that the role of funding of care in the community needed to be examined carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 285099,
      "EditedText": "There seems to be a recurring theme today: one size does not fit all. In your submission, you mentioned that there is \"a disproportionate effect of relatively small changes in population in rural communities\"and that we should consider whether changes below a certain level should be disregarded. Do you have anything else to say on that? With what would like to replace it?You also say: \"The robustness of the formula for areas of highest deprivation and in the accuracy of rurality factors needs to be tested again now.\"What do you mean by that? Do you mean that, having done this all as a blindfold test, we should reconsider whether the settlement is realistic and fair once the blanks have been filled in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Frost: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 285100,
      "EditedText": "There are a couple of points. The effect of small numbers is important because of the disproportionate effect that population changes can have. When the members of the Shetland team give evidence, they will tell you that if a forces base moves from Shetland—200 people with young families—Shetland could, in theory, lose 1 per cent of the budget, although there are other layers to the formula that act as a safety net. In a small place, that is not realistic. The robustness of the formula for very small populations needs to be tested. That may reflect one of the issues that the Arbuthnott committee considered. The report says throughout that the formula was intended to work only at a macro-population level.One of the tables at the back of the report shows what would happen to even smaller chunks of that budget—such as the general medical services budget—for small populations. That is clearly not robust. In the submission, I suggested that we needed something to protect small populations, small health boards and small communities from shifts in funding that were disproportionate to population shifts. The problem relates to statistics and small numbers and I urge the committee to flag it up as something that the Arbuthnott group should reconsider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 285101,
      "EditedText": "As for testing, would you want the committee to say that some of these allocations are wrong? To do that, we would have to go back to the methodology and we will not do that as a committee. I am curious as to what exactly you expect the committee to do about this, apart from just flag it up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Frost: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 285102,
      "EditedText": "Flag it up, but in such a way that it shows that the effect on the ground is not feasible. It was not the Arbuthnott committee's intention that the proposals should be implemented without further detailed work, particularly on their impact. Is there enough cognisance of the problems in rural areas and do the proposals do enough for urban deprivation? There is anxiety that something will be implemented simply because it is in print, so I make a plea for further scrutiny of the proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 285109,
      "EditedText": "I acknowledge your caveat about size. I do not know whether you would agree with me but, when funding for health boards was cut, the calculations seemed to be based only on a capitation fee, with no baseline core funding. The same seems to apply in this review: there is a core element of health provision, which is much more expensive for smaller health boards. I am not sure that that has been allowed for in the formula."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 285111,
      "EditedText": "We will take a couple of points from John and then finish, unless someone else has a burning question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 285118,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Pat, for your contribution. We may hear from you again on a range of different issues, but it is nice to have had you here today. Thanks for answering all our questions.We will take a five-minute comfort break before meeting the people from Shetland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 285120,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 285121,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, gentlemen. We welcome John Telford, chairman of Shetland Health Board, and David Eva, its director of finance. We are also joined by Tavish Scott, MSP for Shetland. He is the first MSP other than those who are members of the committee to have attended it. Other MSPs cannot vote here but can sit in, ask questions or make contributions at my discretion, so he will obviously have to keep on the right side of me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 285123,
      "EditedText": "It has been a recurring theme today that it is questionable whether there can be one formula that fits all. Do you feel that there cannot be one formula that suits everyone's needs? On the one hand, there is the situation in Shetland and in Argyll and Clyde—which, although regarded as a mainland board, contains about 23 islands—and, on the other hand, there is Greater Glasgow, which has atrocious levels of deprivation. We will hear from the Greater Glasgow Health Board tomorrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 285124,
      "EditedText": "We certainly do not seem to have a formula that works—that is all that I can say. The old SHARE formula was supposed to be the answer, but ultimately it had to be changed for the islands because it did not work. We have been having discussions with our colleagues in the local authorities as to how the rate support grant formulas work and the differences between this area and that area. All the island boards have the formulas adjusted; it seems to be very difficult, if not impossible, to devise a formula that works across the board and takes into account the discrepancies between the islands and the mainland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 285126,
      "EditedText": "In trying to tackle deprivation mainly in the central belt, the formula is geared towards economic and deprivation statistics that do not seem to flow through to the island boards in the same way as they do on the mainland. It may be because numbers on the islands are so small.Considering some of the details that we have seen of the allocation to Shetland and within the various programmes, we see that the numbers are up and down quite a bit. I am not a statistician. I do not have the expertise—I do not think that any of us do—to go into the reasons why that happens, but the results seem to be quite erratic. In the Western Isles, the numbers go away up—although I am not knocking the Western Isles getting more funding; that is not what I am here to do. Our numbers, on the other hand, go down. In island communities which are not all that dissimilar in terms of the health resources that they receive, that seems very strange."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 285127,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that all the unique factors relating to Shetland, such as patients having to go to Aberdeen for treatment, were taken into account? If not, which factors do you think should be taken into account to produce a more equitable distribution?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 285129,
      "EditedText": "You could not be expected to have economies of scale. I appreciate that you obviously have fixed costs that are greater than in other areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 285130,
      "EditedText": "That is how we feel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 285131,
      "EditedText": "I am really struggling here. I feel very sympathetic towards you, because your figures look pretty awful. For example, there is a 31.6 per cent reduction in general medical services and the non-cash-limited GMS is going to be very hard to manage. However, of the island groups—with 21,000 people in Shetland, 17,000 in Orkney and 31,000 in the Western Isles—the Western Isles and Orkney seem to have gained substantially. Although it is perhaps unfair to ask you to comment on this point, how have they won while you have lost? As the formula does not work for Shetland, it should not work for the health boards on Orkney and the Western Isles either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 285140,
      "EditedText": "Beta interferon is no different from any other newly developed treatment. If we do not get additional funding for anything additional or new that we provide, we must make cuts and savings elsewhere. Such decisions are becoming difficult for the board to make.I would like a national policy and national funding to be agreed for beta interferon, so that treatment is available regardless of one's postcode."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 285141,
      "EditedText": "Is beta interferon being prescribed in Shetland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 285144,
      "EditedText": "From our point of view, I am not convinced. It is possible to examine the services provided by a small health board, and I am proud of the fact that we run a pretty tight ship—we do not waste much money on administration and we have done much to put resources into patient services. The resources that we have are about right for the service that we provide at the moment. If new money is provided to fund new developments and to tackle problems such as clinical governance and junior doctors' hours as they come along, we can continue to provide a service that has incremental growth.I would certainly prefer that the review had not taken place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 285145,
      "EditedText": "Is that because of the effect on Shetland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 285149,
      "EditedText": "We have established that there will not be new money—we are talking about 1.5 per cent to 2 per cent of the debt being reshuffled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 285150,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to the economic issues. I am very aware that Shetland's economy is based on oil, farming and fishing and that those three sectors face problems.In the penultimate paragraph of your submission, you say that the only scope for meeting the new demands and fulfilling the Arbuthnott recommendations is to reduce \"existing clinical services\". What did you have in mind, given that the purpose of the report is to overcome inequalities and deprivation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 285152,
      "EditedText": "Your submission states: \"The only scope for cost reductions to meet unavoidable new demands therefore involves reducing existing clinical services.\"I hope that the report will not cause deprivation. The Shetland economy might change radically, given that it is dependent on at least three major sectors, all of which are facing difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 285156,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 285159,
      "EditedText": "At the end of the day, this is all about services for patients."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 285164,
      "EditedText": "I would like to quote some specific examples, but it might be difficult to do so during this formal evidence session. I like to think that we give best value as far as we can. In Shetland, everything has to come by plane or by boat, which puts up the cost of everything that we do. In some cases, we have to send patients to Aberdeen, which also has cost implications. On the whole, we run things as economically as we can and we achieve best value. Under the previous Government, all hotel and domestic services were contracted out and, before I was a member of the board, I did not think that that situation was desirable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C285165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 285165,
      "EditedText": "Will you bring them back?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 285167,
      "EditedText": "Some of us will have to undertake to study this, because it is complex and I have not really got my head round it. I have looked again at the table and it appears that, for remoteness, Shetland is getting much the same as Orkney and the Western Isles—23, 24 or 25 per cent above the national average—so that is not a significant variation. I thought that that was the main way in which islands would gain, so I cannot understand how that has happened. Looking at the table, I see that your area seems to fall down in the terms of age/sex weights. Does that sound plausible in terms of the age/sex structure of Shetland in comparison with Orkney? You do not do well in terms of deprivation either, but I would have thought that that would be reflected in the existing formula to some extent, with the main difference being remoteness, for Shetland and for the other islands. Perhaps you could comment on the age/sex weights. Is it likely that you will be less well off than Orkney in relation to those factors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Eva (Director of Finance, Shetland Health Board): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 285168,
      "EditedText": "We have the youngest age/sex structure in Scotland, but I do not know how much younger it is than in other board areas. The team that came up from the Scottish Executive confirmed that we lost out on economic factors and life circumstances compared with Orkney and the Western Isles. I still do not understand why the difference is so great, because the differences in the figures themselves do not seem particularly great. Perhaps the swing from the existing SHARE formula compared with Orkney has happened because we are doing better than Orkney at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 285171,
      "EditedText": "You can gather from the committee's questions and comments that aspects of the review are a mystery to us, even after a full day of informal briefing and after today, a full day of investigation. Having read every page of the report and every submission given to us, I do not necessarily see it as transparent, plausible or obviously equitable to people. The fact that we cannot come up with any reasons for the marked difference between Shetland and the other two island boards shows that—in that respect, if not in others—there is a problem with the review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Forbes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 285177,
      "EditedText": "I want to make a point about the small number issue, which you highlight in an impressive way in your submission. Looking at an indicator such as the standardised mortality ratio—which I believe the report uses for the combined experience of the islands as part of the calculation—would you be content to seek a combined index, based on the experience of the island boards?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 285178,
      "EditedText": "We might be, but I am not sure about the other islands. To get back to my fundamental point, our present resources are not unreasonable, and as long as there is funding to support the current position and to support necessary developments, we do not want to throw the baby out with the bath water. We do not need a completely new formula."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 285180,
      "EditedText": "Is there anything else that you want to say to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 285182,
      "EditedText": "Having heard what Kay just said, I believe that the answer is probably no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 284974,
      "EditedText": "Your points that 80 per cent of care is being delivered by nurses and that often they, and others, think of themselves as being invisible were well made. I hope that the Health and Community Care Committee will never think of Scotland's nurses as being invisible. We should always ensure that we recognise the great work that you all do.One area in the review in which the full scale of the roles that nurses are undertaking in health care in Scotland comes through clearly is in the indices that address rural areas and issues of remoteness. It is clear that the report is saying that there are extra costs involved in rurality, and some of the costs arise from having to have nurses with particular skills because they are sometimes taking on a GP's role, or an accident-and-emergency role. It would be useful for us if you could expand on that aspect of the report, so that we can gain a sense of the roles that those nurses perform in remote areas of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Pullin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 284975,
      "EditedText": "The obvious person to answer that question is Sheena."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 284977,
      "EditedText": "The problem is in the depths of my bag."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 284982,
      "EditedText": "I ask for clarification. Your response says: \"The RCN agrees that the proposed cost index should include an allowance for the additional resources required to fund the education and training needs of these community nurses.\"Is that in any way protected or ring-fenced? How can we be sure that that will not be swallowed up in general spending?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 284983,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure how that can be done unless something were to be put in the formula that would ensure that. I gather from the report that the allowances are given to the health board, which, in turn, distributes them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 284986,
      "EditedText": "My second question relates to that. I was taken with your suggestion, in paragraph 6.3 of your response, concerning the local health care co-operatives. As you say there, the Arbuthnott report was not considering the stage after the allocation of moneys; the spending priorities must be set. That is something that this committee can take on as a recommendation, and I think that we should examine that.My final question concerns the collection of data. Everyone to whom we have spoken so far has said that the best has been made of the data that are available, but that there are major problems concerning the things that are not already known and the data that are not already collected. In your response, you say that nurses can play a crucial role in data collection. First, specifically what additional data do you think that we should be considering? Secondly, what would be the burden on nurses? I am aware that data collection can often be an onerous and time-consuming task. Can you say something about that from a professional point of view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 284988,
      "EditedText": "It is worth noting that education departments recognise the importance of such assessments and are undertaking to provide special courses on them for nurses. Many nurses who trained a number of years ago might not have those skills. Most universities are now providing such courses for nurses and especially for nurses such as health visitors, district nurses, school nurses and practice nurses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 284989,
      "EditedText": "You indicated that you would expect guidelines to be issued to health boards on allocation of nurse education. Are guidelines sufficient? We know that some health boards are better than others at allocating resources to individual trusts for provision of nurse education. I cite specifically the provision of conversion courses for enrolled nurses, for which some health boards have allocated nothing. I am concerned that you have said that guidelines would be enough, given that doctors in post-graduate education have a well-defined role and that the same is not true of nurse education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Pullin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 284990,
      "EditedText": "As I have said, I would be very wary of saying to health boards that they must ring-fence funding for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 284993,
      "EditedText": "Are you happy that we should tell health boards that they have an obligation to ensure that they provide the facility to do that, as each nurse has an obligation to ensure that her practice is up to date?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Pullin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 284994,
      "EditedText": "I see nothing wrong with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 284996,
      "EditedText": "Nurses have been doing that for a long time in their own ways. There is an example of that in Inverclyde, where I work. I am sure that all members of the committee are aware of the problems in that area, one of which is the serious problem of mothers who have dependency problems and who have children under five. The health visitors in the area have started to set up groups to tackle that problem. Nurses are already doing the work to which you referred.Nurses have always been aware of numerous issues related to deprivation. The review and its remit to examine resources and to identify problems of deprivation and remoteness will help nurses greatly. There will be some winners and some losers, but overall there will be fairness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 284999,
      "EditedText": "I would love to see some sort of shift. It does not matter where one works in the health service, one feels that one does not have enough. Everyone would agree that there has been a great shift from secondary to primary care over the past few years, as a result of early discharge, day surgery and so on. Much more work is being carried out in primary care services, not only by community nurses but by GPs and others. I welcome any shift in that direction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C285000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 285000,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that more needs to be done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 285001,
      "EditedText": "I would like to see more being done, as we are looking at ways to prevent disease. Disease prevention is the way forward; primary care will facilitate that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sian Kiely: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 285009,
      "EditedText": "The Accounts Commission for Scotland published a report this month on acute mental health services for adults. In that report, evidence is brought together that looks at whether the current provision highlights inequalities, as you suggest. What the report has found regarding mental health services is that the distribution of resources in health board areas often follows the historical pattern of service provision. Mental health services have continued to be provided on the hospital model, while acute services have been provided differently. In that instance, it is highlighted that distribution has not been based on unequal need or on inequalities, but rather on historical perspective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheena Cochrane: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 285013,
      "EditedText": "At present, most trusts are using historical work-load patterns or data, which are outdated. There has been some innovative work. There is a Glasgow model from a few years ago that people have been using, but they recognise that it needs updating. The Arbuthnott report is being examined in terms of new work-load models for nursing. I think that the Lanarkshire Health Board was involved in something, but I am not sure of the model."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C285014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 285014,
      "EditedText": "Would it be true to say that, in general, you are fairly happy with the redistribution that has been recommended and that your main concern is that the money should be spent appropriately, in line with the new priorities? Reading between the lines, that is what you seem to be saying. I welcome your suggestion that members of the Scottish Parliament should be involved in holding health boards to account. Perhaps we should try that on the minister tomorrow. Laughter. I also welcome your suggestion for more of a role for district nurses and for community psychiatric nurses.I want to home in on your point 6.3 on local health care co-operatives, if the convener will allow me to. I feel that we ought to incorporate this in our report. If I am correct that you think that the arrangements are okay as long as the money is being spent appropriately, perhaps we ought to be asking how we ensure that. Since we have an expert on local health care co-operatives here, can I ask why you think that LHCCs will lead to targeting resources on areas of greatest need? How do you see that happening? What are the mechanisms for that in LHCCs? Not everyone perceives them in that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 285021,
      "EditedText": "Margaret, I must stop you before you answer. Dorothy, are you deliberately trying me today?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 285023,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy, we could have Margaret and the other representatives of the RCN here all day to talk about all aspects of nursing, and that would be very interesting. However, our remit today is to talk to them about the Arbuthnott review. You have had an opportunity to ask your question, and at some later date Margaret may want to respond to you in writing. However, at this point we should stick to the Arbuthnott review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 285025,
      "EditedText": "I will rule that as irrelevant and move on to Kay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Pullin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 285027,
      "EditedText": "We had an interesting discussion about that. I think that Sian will be able to answer that question—she has a head for methodology."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sian Kiely: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 285028,
      "EditedText": "In our response, we indicated that we did not want any area to be disadvantaged. We hope that, in the redistribution and allocation of resources, there will be differential growth between health boards to ensure that the percentage increases and decreases can be accommodated so that no health board or geographical area will have a real-terms loss in income. We hope that those plans will ensure that the distribution of resources will be equitable and fair. Nurses understand that the report should lead to equitable and fair access to health care for all patients in Scotland. We acknowledge that there are health board areas to which a larger proportion of resources is currently allocated and we recognise that the review may lead to those allocations being reduced in the future. Our concern is to ensure that the resources are there to provide the best quality care that nurses and health professionals can give patients."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sian Kiely: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 285033,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I can give some examples. Nurses are working in many areas of the health service and there are specialist nurses with particular skills. For example, diabetes nurses undertake special health-needs assessments of patients and can advise on lifestyle and diet to help them with their condition. Incontinence nurses can help 70 per cent of patients with incontinence problems to live an active and enjoyable life by providing nursing care to limit their incontinence problems. In leg ulcer care, appropriate nursing care can reduce the pain and discomfort suffered by the patient. Specialist nursing is a cost-effective way of providing health care.Nurses can help to counter the problems of deprivation by providing specialist advice that is appropriate to the community's needs; they can address the links that have been identified between deprivation and health problems. We hope that nurses can continue to liaise with other health professionals and other agencies to ensure that deprivation issues across Scotland are fully addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C285035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 285035,
      "EditedText": "In paragraph 4.4 of your submission to the committee, you make the point that the new formula does not take into account forms of nursing in rural areas other than the ones attached to a GP practice. What percentage of services does that account for in rural areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sian Kiely: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 285036,
      "EditedText": "Nurses who are attached to GP practices might be practice nurses, district nurses and health visitors. Community nurses can also include community psychiatric nurses, community children's nurses and nurses working with clients with learning disabilities. The percentage that that would account for varies geographically and in relation to the population covered by the GP surgery. Rather than give you an isolated statistic, I would say that the proportion would vary on the basis of population and the provision of services that the primary health care trust and the surgery provide in that area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sian Kiely: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 285040,
      "EditedText": "One issue that I would highlight is the time involved in visiting and caring for the patient and travelling between patients. It takes particular, professional skills to undertake such care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 285042,
      "EditedText": "I would like to thank the RCN for making an oral contribution, as well as for giving us a written report. No doubt its representatives will return to discuss the 80 per cent of care that is delivered by nurses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 285046,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 285047,
      "EditedText": "At the risk of starting a new trend, let us start on time. Next in the hot seat is Pat Dawson from the Scottish Association of Health Councils. I welcome her to the Health and Community Care Committee. Could you start by making your statement? We will then open up the discussion to questions from the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 285049,
      "EditedText": "Hear, hear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 285057,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that it is entirely related to Arbuthnott but, as you have raised the question, I must answer—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 285058,
      "EditedText": "Allow me to explain why I think that it is relevant. One of the themes that we have heard consistently in our discussions concerns the difficulty of tackling inequalities of health provision. In your submission, you have touched on the complexity of the situation, and we cannot be unaware that a range of factors is involved in tackling health inequality. One thing that comes across very clearly is that, to tackle health inequality, we must consider poverty and the issues that surround it. Kay mentioned that earlier.There are two aspects to this. The first is the physical distribution of the resources that are currently in the health budget. The second is how that distribution addresses the issues that Arbuthnott wants tackled in the long term. I am beginning to wonder whether, underlying your contribution—and perhaps fundamental to it—is an assertion that you cannot look at the allocation of health resources without looking more broadly at the allocation of other resources. Should the committee be putting a caveat in our conclusion about Arbuthnott that we must start to look at the broader allocation of resources from other agencies? That poses fundamental political questions about who is responsible for health care delivery."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 285060,
      "EditedText": "You seem to be suggesting that there is potential for a certain part of the health budget to be allocated and managed at a higher level—either at Scottish or sub-Scottish level. At patient-care level, the service needs to be integrated with and more accountable to other services. Are you suggesting that if the health budget was split, with one central service responsible for some of the acute services, that the rest would be more easily integrated with local authority care services?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 285063,
      "EditedText": "The question, whether one formula fits all, was asked earlier. Can there be one formula that delivers for people in remote areas and for people in deprived areas? That can be turned on its head, and we can ask whether one formula for health care will ever deliver what we want, or whether we need greater integration so that the formula takes into account social work and care in the community and all the other things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Dawson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 285064,
      "EditedText": "When you take evidence on community care, and when you look at areas where there is good practice—where seamless care is delivered and where there is integration of services—I suspect that one of the crucial findings will be the importance of joined-up budgets, where people with different hats work together in a common accountability framework to a common end, which is to meet patient-driven need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 285070,
      "EditedText": "Before Pat expands on that, I should say that the first part of your comments strayed from our remit, but I will be kind. If Pat Dawson wants to answer, that is fine. The issue of unmet need is well within our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 285072,
      "EditedText": "Your submission queries the idea that one solution fits all and makes some good points on that, particularly in relation to island communities, posing very relevant questions about transport and travelling costs. That is not just a problem for island communities. We spoke this morning about centres of excellence and how people have to travel to get good care. A lot of patient transport costs are absorbed by the voluntary sector. Is that something that you feel applies more widely, or just in island communities? I also welcome your points on joined-up thinking, which is particularly important. If we cannot tackle it in Arbuthnott we should do so when we look at community care. There are a number of areas in which the committee could investigate further the ideas of joined-up budgets and partnership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C285074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 285074,
      "EditedText": "There is a big issue there about hidden costs. I do not see it in the report and I know voluntary organisations in my area are bearing the burden. We do not have some services locally in Ayrshire, so patients travel to Glasgow, which is a 25 to 30 mile journey. Some voluntary organisations are being put out of business, which is having an effect on patient care and transport."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 285078,
      "EditedText": "Before I ask Dorothy to speak, I would like to welcome the party of young people from Boroughmuir High School who are with us. I hope that you will find what we are talking about interesting. We are discussing how we can allocate resources to ensure that people have equal access to care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 285086,
      "EditedText": "Would you have liked them to ask why we could not recommend larger sums of money? Laughter. No, I mean it—would you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 285093,
      "EditedText": "We move on to our penultimate contribution of the day. I welcome Pat Frost from the NHS Confederation to the Health and Community Care Committee. Pat, could you give us a general contribution to start with? We will follow that up with questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C285095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 285095,
      "EditedText": "Is there a general consensus among the bodies that you represent that there was a need for such a review to be undertaken?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 285103,
      "EditedText": "Do you have a view on what should happen about the long-term monitoring and review of the process? Some people have said that there should be a standing body looking at this, rather than an ad hoc review as and when people decide that they want one. If there were a standing group, new data could be looked at all the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Frost: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 285104,
      "EditedText": "The view of the membership of the Scotland confederation is that that is an absolute necessity. I made the point in my response that SHARE was initially seen as an absolute revolution. Now, 22 years later, it looks fossilised. We must keep abreast of two things. The first is whether the formula needs adjustment to deliver new objectives for the care services in Scotland. The second is whether the formula is delivering. As I tried to say in the response—the point was made in the Arbuthnott report—although it is clear that there are links between all aspects of deprivation and good or ill health, no one is clear what the causality is. As more knowledge comes to bear on that, we might want to refine the different elements that are taken into account. People have flagged up to me some of the elements that are not included, such as educational attainment and low pay. The trouble is where we stop taking practice into account. The Arbuthnott committee had to make a decision on that. Other factors will become more obviously important as our knowledge about the causal link between deprivation and ill health improves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C285107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 285107,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of questions, the first of which is a general one. Is it the view of the confederation that the report is fair? The shift in resources is around 2 per cent. Under SHARE, which, as you said, everyone welcomed, people's health has become relatively worse and inequalities have increased, despite the redistribution effect. Do you think that the report is fair, and will it achieve anything?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Frost: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 285110,
      "EditedText": "I will provide a couple of examples. If you are staffing a service in an urban area, you can usually employ a large number of part-time staff. It may be difficult to achieve, but that can be done for primary care and hospital services. If you are trying to provide a GP service in a remote area—the most extreme example that I know of is on an island where the GP practice covers 125 people—you cannot roll up a part-time GP, a part-time nurse and so on: you must include an inducement payment.There are a number of GP practices in rural areas where, to attract someone, an inducement payment has to be made to give the GP a reasonable income. Rural areas face different costs and different problems. In places with bigger populations, people have much more flexibility in dealing with the costs of service provision. That has to be recognised. We are again straying on to issues surrounding the costs of current service provision, and we must keep our minds on addressing overall inequalities. However, the costs of service provision and the difficulties in changing them are real. That will be a big issue for MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Forbes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 285114,
      "EditedText": "So there is nothing peculiar about that year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Frost: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 285115,
      "EditedText": "No, it is just that the sample is too small. People are made nervous by the fact that the sample is based on one year; they want it extended to cover another year. We are not saying that the findings are necessarily wrong, but we are dealing with a mighty service and huge sums of money. To make major changes on the basis of one year's data is not supportable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Frost: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 285117,
      "EditedText": "It is important to realise that there are mechanisms in place across Scotland to allow the health boards and their trusts to work together—in large geographical chunks—to devise a joint planning approach that makes sense as regards changes to services. There is huge cross-boundary flow everywhere in Scotland, particularly in Fife, which is sandwiched between two tertiary centres. Those mechanisms are pretty robust. The principle from which people are working—it has been articulated in all the submissions that have been made to you—is that no health board is prepared to allow its community to get a worse deal than others are getting.I do not think that the situation that Dr Forbes describes is a particular problem. The spirit enshrined in the report informs the work of health service funders below board level. People are concerned mainly about primary care and community-based services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0391524+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 285128,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the formula does not recognise that there is a base cost of providing a minimum level of services. For example, we run a maternity unit. It probably does not matter a great deal whether we have 50 births in a year or several hundred, we still have to have the service. We have to have two consultant surgeons, although it would be nice to have more, because we have to have a baseline service. The report seemed to accept that there was a linear progression on a graph that goes from somewhere up here above my head down to zero, in line with the formula. It cannot do that: it has to start with a reasonably acceptable level of service and then build on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C285134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 285134,
      "EditedText": "I commend you for not attacking the other health boards. If I were in your position, I would be putting the boot in with all haste.Your submission makes crystal clear the case that there are potential flaws in the report's methodology. Frankly, it is irrefutable that something is seriously wrong. All day, we have heard how only a small percentage of the budget is actually changing hands and yet you will suffer severely in this apparently static situation.Does Shetland think that it is the exception or does it now doubt the report's methodology? Many people will gain and many will lose. Should we doubt even those who will gain, as they will do so through the same system by which you will lose? On the other hand, if you think that you are exceptional, can any area of data collection be developed to provide a more equitable situation in which the methodology is fine, but needs a few more variables?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 285136,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy, you may ask a question as long as you do not ask Mr Telford whether he thinks that more money should be put into the health service in general."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C285137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 285137,
      "EditedText": "Mr Telford would immediately reply that he thinks that more money should be put in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 285138,
      "EditedText": "We will take that as a given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 285146,
      "EditedText": "It is obviously a fairly selfish point of view, but that is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 285147,
      "EditedText": "One thing that we all accept is that the review examines the link between ill health and poverty and deprivation factors. Do you agree that there is poverty and deprivation in Shetland to some extent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 285151,
      "EditedText": "That is correct—sorry, but I am not quite sure that I understand the question. Are you asking where would we make the savings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 285153,
      "EditedText": "It would be invidious of me to sit here and say what we would cut, as we are talking about finding savings of £0.5 million. As a board, we will have to examine all our areas of activity to see where we could make cuts. As I said, we run a tight administration. We have kept our central administration costs frozen at the same cash level for the past three to four years and would have to consider making cuts in patient services. I listened with interest to what the representatives of the Royal College of Nursing said about multi-skilled nurses in remote areas. In all our inhabited islands, a multi-skilled nurse provides the only medical services, which is a very expensive service. If we have to spend £40,000, £50,000 or £60,000 to support that nurse in that job, should we make savings in that area? That would be a horrendous and invidious choice to have to make, but we will have to consider such a choice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 285155,
      "EditedText": "I challenge anyone to examine our management costs and to show us where we could make significant savings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 285158,
      "EditedText": "One of our strategic objectives is to move services back to Shetland from Aberdeen, which is our main service-providing partner; over the years, we have been slowly pulling back services. As an example, we now have two consultant anaesthetists, which extends the work that we can do, and we are trying to encourage visiting consultants from Aberdeen to operate in Shetland. Two or three years ago, we got two new operating theatres so that the consultants could come to the patients, rather than the other way round. People tend to forget that Shetland is quite a big place. I know a lady who has to travel from Unst, one of the islands, for chemotherapy treatment in Aberdeen. She goes by road to the ferry terminal, has two ferry crossings, travels the length of Shetland to get to the airport, flies to Aberdeen, has her chemotherapy and does the same journey in reverse. People feel bad enough having chemotherapy without undertaking such an horrendous journey. We want to try to bring back to Shetland as many patient services as we can. That is not a cheap option, but it is desirable and would be beneficial for patients."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 285160,
      "EditedText": "The most important people in the health service are the staff—doctors, nurses and so on. In Shetland and in rural medicine generally, recruitment is one of our biggest problems—getting good people into rural areas. If the board does not have development funds, we will not keep the good members of staff whom we have and we will not be able to recruit good people. We have recruited two bright, young consultant anaesthetists who are introducing pain clinics. We are considering the development of a small high-dependency unit, so that people do not have to risk life and limb to travel to Aberdeen and back in an air ambulance in a force 10 gale. They could be stabilised in Shetland and kept there until conditions allowed them to travel. People will not come for jobs in Shetland if there is no money for new developments, as they want to develop their career. That applies across the board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 285162,
      "EditedText": "We have been making that case for many years and it has been the board's policy for quite some time. I was pleased when the remote and rural resource centre in Inverness came into being, but I would be sorry if it came up with lots of good ideas without the money being available to implement them. That would make it a bit of a nonsense as far as we are concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 285176,
      "EditedText": "Of course you are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Eva: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 285179,
      "EditedText": "We think that the decision in Arbuthnott to lump islands together or to split them up seems to be rather arbitrary. We want to know the basis of that decision. We cannot say whether it will produce a better result."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Telford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 285181,
      "EditedText": "I want to thank the committee and to say that if members ever want to come and see the health service in Shetland, they will be very welcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C285183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 285183,
      "EditedText": "Shetland is a wonderful place to visit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C285185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7545,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 285185,
      "EditedText": "I have heard from my colleague Tavish Scott that Shetland is a wonderful place. Thank you for the invitation; we will certainly consider a visit, because the committee intends to leave Edinburgh at some point in the session.Thank you for your excellent written submission. Your evidence today has given us some food for thought. We will take up some of the matters that you raised when we speak to the minister tomorrow. We wish you a safe journey home.That brings us to the end of today's business. I thank colleagues for their patience, questions and attention. I look forward to seeing you all again tomorrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C285186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1688
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7545,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 285186,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:47."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.054772+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7542,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7542,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 284769,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, everybody. My first suggestion is that we take the next 10 minutes in private, to discuss our strategy for approaching the witnesses this morning. I draw to the attention of committee members—particularly Dorothy-Grace Elder and Ben Wallace, who have just joined us—the fact that our expert, John Forbes, has given us two sheets of paper, copies of which members will find on their desks. One sheet contains some suggested questions; the other contains some of the main points that were brought out from the many submissions that we have received.If members are in agreement, I suggest that we now go into a private session to discuss our tactics, in respect of who will ask what questions. John's questions are a starting point, but members will have other questions that they have either thought of in advance, which we can discuss now, or that will occur to them while we are questioning our witnesses. Is that suggestion acceptable to members?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7542,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 284770,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 284775,
      "EditedText": "That is absolutely fine. After you have given us a short statement, we will ask you a series of questions about the key points. Is that okay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 284776,
      "EditedText": "Yes.I am very pleased to attend this formal meeting of the committee, having taken part in the scoping discussions. As the committee knows, at the very end of 1997 I was asked by ministers to take responsibility for a review of resource allocation and to consider a new approach to resource allocation in the Scottish health service. As members know, the title of the report is \"Fair Shares For All\". That reflects what the review has tried to achieve: a fair distribution of resources. We would all agree that that is fundamental to the national health service in Scotland. Everyone should have reasonable access to NHS resources and services, whether they live in densely populated urban areas or in remote or rural areas. Achieving a distribution of resources that will ensure that everyone has equal access to health care is the basic theme that runs through the work of the review group. We have taken account not only of remoteness, rurality or urban location, but of the state of people's well-being—deprivation and their life circumstances.At the outset, we decided that we had to take an evidence-based approach. That is what ministers asked us for. The current resource allocation mechanism formula, which is known as Scottish health authority review equalisation or SHARE, was introduced more than 20 years ago. The working group that produced it decided that it did not have an analytical evidence base on which to make its judgments, so most of its judgments are just that—judgments. Some of them are still very reasonable, but, in hindsight, some of them ought to be updated.We now have much better statistics available to us in the national health service, particularly in Scotland. I am proud to say that our statistics are among the best in the world. That does not mean that they are complete: we always want better data. There are points in the report where we look to improvements in future, and the committee may want to discuss those. However, the data are much better than they were 20 years ago.This information gives us the evidence to work out a more equitable way of distributing resources among health boards. However, this has not been a purely statistical, black-box exercise. The steering group that was assembled contained representatives of all parts of the NHS in Scotland. It included all sorts of individuals: managers, trust representatives, board chairmen, nursing specialists and doctors. We also had the benefit of advice from outside the Scottish health service. Our job was to weigh the evidence and to follow some quite strict guidelines when making decisions. One of my most important tasks as chairman was to focus the group on fairness, openness, clarity and common sense, as well as statistics.Two major issues emerge from the report. For the next couple of minutes I would like briefly to introduce those, as I am sure that they will occupy us this morning. First, there is overwhelming evidence that high levels of deprivation give rise to high levels of need for health care. Secondly, the costs of delivering health care services are much higher in remote and rural areas.I do not need to tell members about the poor state of health care in Scotland compared with other European countries. Our record on coronary heart disease is not good. That is linked with deprivation, and levels of deprivation are much higher in some health boards. It is quite clear that if we are to achieve a fair distribution of resources, we must take account of the influence of deprivation on health care needs. I will give the committee a brief example. The existing share formula takes no account of the influence of deprivation on the need for mental health care, but our work—and numerous other studies that have been done—clearly indicates that deprivation is a major factor. Our formula recognises that.Many people live in remote and rural areas of Scotland and, as citizens, they have a right to expect the best possible access to health care services. The additional costs that relate to the provision of health care services in such areas must be taken into account. We have carried out a detailed analysis of the effects of remoteness and rurality on those costs and have recommended that a significant adjustment be made, especially for the Highland boards, to reflect them.Our results on deprivation and on remoteness and rurality provide a firm basis for moving forward on how resources should be allocated among health boards to meet their relative needs.Since the report was published in early July, it has—as you know, convener—gone out to general consultation. The health department in Scotland is meeting all the health boards to discuss their reaction to the report. That consultation process is taking place in parallel with the consultation that this committee is carrying out.A great deal of interesting material is coming through from that. We are not saying that this is the final prescription, but you may have information from health boards and your own thoughts on it. It should be subjected to the same rigour as we have applied to the rest of the report. You will find that the Scottish Executive health department is responsive to those reactions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 284780,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 284781,
      "EditedText": "Throughout the report, the relative needs formulae place equal weight on the main sets of factors: sex, morbidity, life circumstances and remoteness. What rationale or evidence underpins the weighting scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 284788,
      "EditedText": "The teaching hospitals are separately provided for, as you know. Your opening remark pinpoints the main issue. The technical report, I hope, makes clear that a serious attempt has been made to take account of supply, need and life circumstances, which are intimately related. Supply of health services is not random but because there is a need for them, but the availability of particular services and facilities may affect their utilisation. Therefore, in trying to identify the provision of resources for need one has to correct for that, and that has been done in the measures outlined in the technical report.We discussed that issue a great deal and were satisfied that as far as we could take account of the supply contamination factor we had done so. Whether we have done so to everybody's satisfaction is another matter, but that is the general approach we took.I think we looked at supply in relation to individual care programmes. The technical team took the supply adjustment factor extraordinarily seriously. It is difficult to remember every detail."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 284789,
      "EditedText": "We will allow you that. If there is anything you cannot immediately call to mind, let us have it in writing."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 284791,
      "EditedText": "What measures of accessibility were used? I know it is in the technical report, but I asked the question partly because it is important that the public has some indication of how the model was arrived at. It comes back to your point about transparency and accountability. Even at the risk of simplification, could you explain how the supply factor was accounted for?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C284795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 284795,
      "EditedText": "I should have made that clear in answer to the question on population. If such things are set in cement they become inaccurate. One reason that we did not use general practice data is because the response to change in general practice populations is slow and resources can be allocated on a false basis, which we must avoid. The population, age and sex figures as well as the key morbidity and life circumstance indicators should be updated on an annual basis. It was on that assumption that the General Register Office advised us that mid-year estimates had the least risk of being wrong.  Flexibility in the model should enable that to be worked through annually so that we do not make wrongly based allocations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284796",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 284796,
      "EditedText": "Have you said that to the minister?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 284798,
      "EditedText": "We appreciate your explanations, but I am sure you will agree that by its very nature the report is complicated and technical. What opportunities were there for expert examination of any technical problems with the formulae? Were they subjected to peer review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 284799,
      "EditedText": "There are two answers to that question. I will take the second part first, which relates to reviewing and updating the population figures and any other key components of the formula so that we do not get locked into out-of-date and inappropriate allocations that have to be changed, which results in a lack of stability in the system. Stability is very important.We will not wait for 20 years before we review the formula again. As I said to the convener at the beginning, the approach that we have taken will also be adopted in different areas of health and outside the health field. Databases, and their management, are now part of public life and we must ensure that the ways in which they are evaluated, weighted and used in the future are subject to review. I cannot say what ministers have in mind with regard to how frequently reviews are undertaken, but the steering group would be shuffling in its shoes if we went four or five years without a major assessment of the impact of change and of the need to carry out internal and peer reviews.I was asked about the extent to which we used the best advice available to us and the extent to which we used peer review in the review process. Obviously, we had a finite time in which to carry out the review. It may have been more desirable to have worked over two or three years, but that is a long time. It must be remembered that, when I undertook this job, there was no Scottish Parliament—we did not know what was going to happen. A minister in the Westminster Parliament asked me whether I would do this review for Scotland and I did it. The Scottish Parliament was due to meet in July, so I felt that it was essential that we had a substantial piece of work to present to it, and we have done that.We took a lot of advice. Members of the expert group came from all over the UK, not just from Scotland, and included all the experts that you would expect to find on such a group. We had mountains of advice, sometimes conflicting. If I may, I will refer to a report in which I was involved that was concerned with higher education. I had the task of chairing a group of 50 education economists, whose task was to determine the impact of higher education. There were probably 25 different opinions on the matter, so the advice—from peers or otherwise—was not always consistent. However, we did take advice.This may be the first time that this has been disclosed, but the way in which we wrote the report on resource allocation in the health service was not simply by sitting down as a committee and having note-takers from the Scottish health department come up with the final version. That happened with the drafts, but every chapter in this report was edited by at least two members of the steering group, who were assigned parts of the draft according to their interests. They prepared the drafts for the whole group. We began to look at the editorial process—the peer-review process, if you like—very carefully, and did so at least six to nine months before the final report was produced.On the technical report, we used an external member of our committee, Gordon McVie, who is the director general of the Cancer Research Campaign. As you may know, he is well known for his independence of view. He took the report and thoroughly examined it. He came back with comments, asked us to do more work where he thought it should be done and, within the time frame, we did it. If we had had an infinite amount of time, we would have done infinitely more work, but the report is a good basis on which to move forward. If we accept it as such, and accept the feedback that you will hear today and tomorrow, and the reports that the minister is getting back to the Scottish health department, we can use those meaningful comments to improve what we already have. That would give us a good starting point. I wish to stress the importance that I attach to annual updating and review. There may have to be a continuous monitoring group, which could address anything that arose from this committee's work or from the Parliament's work in the context of an on-going formula. I would feel much more satisfied if I left this matter in that state—I do not want to provide some kind of ex cathedra statement from Sir John Arbuthnott and his colleagues."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C284802",
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      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 284802,
      "EditedText": "I hope that my letter to the minister at the front of the report is not in any way wishy-washy or academic. The terms of reference under which the steering group was working were to some extent academic because we were analysing and breaking new ground. However, we were trying to be practical as well. I hope that that has come through in the report. If it has not, that is not good.Our terms of reference were to come up with a resource allocation formula by which resources could be allocated to the people of Scotland. The agencies responsible for providing health care are health boards and health trusts. In my answer to a question on the integration of services, I indicated that integration was inevitable and that there would have to be more of it. The acute services review provides an excellent indication of where integration must occur. Whether dealing with health, education or economic development, one must have an initial resource allocation point and then a properly established means by which interaction, training and the integration of policy can take place. That is required for joined-up government, in which I firmly believe—I hope that we see it as a result of some of our suggestions.There are two next steps. We must ask how health boards use money: is it robust and are we monitoring it properly? That is not what I have been asked to do, but we must do it and I would like it to be done. Some health boards may take the report as a form of guidance on how they use their money. Health boards carry our other functions, such as preventive medicine, education on health needs, food safety and so on, and we need to see progress in integrated activities. Our report provides a practical basis on which that sort of joined-up approach can be conducted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 284806,
      "EditedText": "I understand that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 284810,
      "EditedText": "Greater Glasgow Health Board's submission states that \"in one or two places the results seem questionable. The community services formula is one example.\"Greater Glasgow Health Board and Lanarkshire Health Board—two major areas—suggest that they will lose money through that formula. Greater Glasgow's submission states that the community services formula suggests that Glasgow's spending per head on community services\"would be 3.3% less than the national average. If we did actually spend in this way it would mean a reduction of about 22% in services such as physiotherapy, district nursing and health visiting at a time when we are looking to invest more in order to meet health inequalities\".The submission also states:\"the formula is based on data from four trusts which are not typical of Scotland because the populations they serve are healthier than the national average;data could only be collected for district nursing and health visiting, which represent less than one-third of community services – no evidence is presented to show that they are typical of the other services\".Lanarkshire Health Board's submission mentions age/sex weights in particular:\"A significant driver in the formula is the age/sex weights and in Lanarkshire's case the impact of this factor alone reduces the funding per head of population from £779 to £733. We would like to explore further the impact that it is assumed that demography has on health needs.\"Lanarkshire Health Board agrees about legitimate extra costs in rural areas, but goes on to say that\"if the Arbuthnott recommendations are implemented in Lanarkshire's case we would receive £733 per head of population. This is significantly less than Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles which receive £1185 per head\".It is obvious that health is a bit better on those islands—although there is a massive geographic problem there—but it is absolutely unacceptable for the west of Scotland if budgets are reduced in Glasgow and Lanarkshire."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 284813,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry Dorothy, but I want to ask Hugh to contribute, as we are running a bit over time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 284815,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 284820,
      "EditedText": "I wondered whether there was an alternative. Do the options all involve redistributing money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 284822,
      "EditedText": "How much would the third option have reallocated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 284826,
      "EditedText": "That will be an important addendum to the report. At various points in the report, notably chapter 15, you are at pains to say that it is a work in progress. Some of the points that have been raised today, such as what Duncan said about the availability of data, indicate that the report is a work in progress and must be reviewed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 284828,
      "EditedText": "The way in which health care and health services in Scotland are moving, with an increasing shift to primary and community care, makes it more likely that that will happen.One concern that I have—although I do not know how the situation could have been avoided—is that the report is very much of its time. We are moving into a new style of health care, which is more concerned with community and primary care but, because of the lack of available data, you have, in some cases, almost been hide-bound into having to make do with what data are available. There is a need for a review.I would like to make a point about the on-going work on health inequalities. Taking off my convener's hat and putting on a Lothians hat for a moment, I point out that the health board in Lothian feels that it has done badly out of this. There will be concern in areas that are not perceived as deprived if extra weight suddenly seems to be given to the deprivation factor. There is a need for proper consultation.People are making submissions to us and to the health department and the minister. If things suddenly change because added weight is attached to deprivation, we may have to go through the cycle again, as the committee has made known to the minister and the department. We have asked for a slight extension for our initial comments—we have said that we will come back to the matter during the second consultation period to take into account the extra work that is being done on inequalities. The process is on-going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 284830,
      "EditedText": "Yes, if you feel that that is doable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 284833,
      "EditedText": "I do not dispute that passionately held view—I hold passionate views myself about some of these things. The task is to come up with a balanced means of allocating resources that is as evidence-based and fair as possible. The total resource that is allocated is a matter for Government, ministers and this Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 284834,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Ben, do you have a supplementary point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 284838,
      "EditedText": "That is a very specific question and I welcome the opportunity to answer it. Nothing different is being done in the Borders or Dumfries and Galloway in relation to the key elements of the formula. If something is wrong or has been miscalculated, we will look at it, but the basis of the approach is the one that we have talked about this morning. However, you have raised a specific point that we will address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 284839,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 284840,
      "EditedText": "I am smiling, Sir John, because all the members have their hands up wanting to ask a question. I will take Malcolm Chisholm first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284841",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 284841,
      "EditedText": "I will save my question for the minister tomorrow. I want to take us down a different route. The reason that I asked about the third option is that your remit, Sir John, only allowed you to consider redistributing money to health boards. I believe that the extra money for inequality should be looked at differently, in terms of specific initiatives in deprived areas, but you were not allowed to look at that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 284846,
      "EditedText": "This is a serious point, convener. In many cases, it was the local authorities that asked for copies, so there is obviously a keen interest in applying the report's principles to local authority resource allocation and in integrating that with health. I am not at all opposed to the idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 284850,
      "EditedText": "That is how it is done at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 284853,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, it is included not as an additional special category, but as part of a remoteness index. There is one population needs base even under this formula that does not take account of the special needs of the islands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 284855,
      "EditedText": "Sir John, I am sorry to bring you to a conclusion, as I am sure that we could go on all day—you will be glad that we will not do so. Your remarks were very useful and provide an ideal beginning for our consideration of \"Fair Shares For All\". I thank you for coming to the meeting. If any points arise over the next couple of days, would you be happy for us to take them up with you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 284856,
      "EditedText": "I will certainly respond to the point about Dumfries and Galloway. I have found the meeting extremely helpful, particularly in relation to inequality of health provision, which I will follow through."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 284858,
      "EditedText": "We could talk about this for 22 years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 284862,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Dr Alastair Leyland from the University of Glasgow to the Health and Community Care Committee. Dr Leyland, could you begin by giving us some of your impressions of the review? We will then open up the floor to questions. Could members intimate to me whether they wish to ask a question? From here on in, we will take questions in a free-flowing manner, if that is acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Alastair Leyland (Social and Public Health Sciences Unit, University of Glasgow): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 284863,
      "EditedText": "I start by saying that I work at the social and public health sciences unit at the University of Glasgow, which is jointly funded by the chief scientist's office in the Scottish Executive and by the Medical Research Council. However, the opinions that I give are mine and not necessarily those of either of my funders.I was involved in the review both through my membership of the expert group that advised the steering group and through the analysis of the development of the formulae for acute, maternity, obstetric, hospital in-patient and day-case services.There were eight criteria by which the review was to be measured. Of those, the most important was equity—we wanted to ensure an equitable allocation of resources to health boards. We have gone some way towards doing that. In particular, we have moved towards having an evidence base. There is now some rationale for the allocation of resources, which is a major step forward. The previous SHARE formula had the advantage of simplicity—everyone could understand what they were getting and knew that they were likely to get about the same amount the following year because mortality rates do not vary much from one year to the next—but it lacked responsiveness. It was not possible to target particular conditions or sectors. It also assumed that historic mortality was the only indicator of the need for health services.Although, as I suggested in my submission and as Sir John said earlier, there is further work to be done in this area, the report represents a major step forward in terms of the fair distribution or allocation of resources to health boards throughout Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 284868,
      "EditedText": "Would it be right to say that you have serious concerns about the quality of some of the data?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 284869,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I have serious concerns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 284870,
      "EditedText": "Will you be specific about the areas into which we should be putting greater investment in data collection? Moreover, continuous morbidity recording is being used in four health boards. Although there is a question about whether they are representative of Scotland as a whole, do you think that we should be pushing to incorporate CMR as it stands in health boards across Scotland, or would that be a false track to go down?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 284875,
      "EditedText": "I am in no doubt that the data could be improved, which would also improve the formula and make for better allocation. At the moment, those data are the best that we have. If there is to be an allocation for community health services, that would best be done by using the available evidence and not by making a guesstimate of what the allocation should be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 284877,
      "EditedText": "The data that have been collected on, for example, community health services have not been collected for the purpose of reviewing resource allocation. If data were to be collected over the next six months—that would be the shortest appropriate time scale—on the activities that are believed to be the main areas of expenditure, by this time next year a much-improved allocation for that block of the services could be put forward. The time scale for improvement could be that short. We would not have the final answer in a year, but there would be a big improvement on what is currently available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 284878,
      "EditedText": "You said that we were the envy of the world in terms of available data, but you also expressed serious concerns about some of that data. Three questions flow from that. First, are your concerns so significant that you feel that they invalidate the report and its conclusions? Secondly, what are your general observations about the methodology that was employed in the compilation of the report? Do you believe that that methodology was robust enough? Thirdly, everybody will accept the need for some method of allocation of resources, but they will reserve their opinions on the effect of that method on them. Do you believe that the thrust of the report is acceptable and productive and that some of the changes that Sir John suggests are necessary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 284880,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned island communities. Do you agree with the argument of representatives of those communities that the report is undermined by the fact that it does not take account of fixed costs? Certain costs will be incurred regardless of the number of patients involved, but the document does not seem to reflect that fact. The wild swings in funding that we often see are influenced by the size of the islands' populations, which in some cases have reached a point that might undermine the credibility of the allocation scheme.You dealt with the position on unemployment figures in your written submission. Governments of all political persuasions are good at fiddling employment figures; that has an impact on how much we can rely on the weighting that the report says has some relationship to unemployment. How important do you think that that is?I was taken with your point about national average costs. You wrote:\"The assumption that national average costs should apply to all hospitals, and the effect of this assumption on the subsequent analyses (and hence the formulae) should be tested.\"That strikes me as a strong point because that assumption defeats the logic of the report, which sets out to establish that there are different costs in different areas. The use of national costs skew the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 284881,
      "EditedText": "I will deal with your first and third points together as they relate to each other. The use of national average costs is meant to ensure that inefficiencies in hospitals are not rewarded. If, for some reason, a stay in a hospital is more expensive than it would be in another hospital, that is taken into account so that more money does not continue to be paid to that hospital unless it can be shown that the costs are justified. I think that that links with your first point. My concern is that additional fixed costs associated with some hospitals have not been taken into account. The costs that have been taken into account are factors such as—for an island board, say—the transportation from one island to another and the fact that that could mean that a person required an extra day's stay. What has not been taken into account is that, for reasons of diseconomies of scale, every time someone goes to a small hospital, the initial cost per patient is higher. It is worth while investigating how substantial the differences between health boards are. Another example is the severity of a patient's condition. Two patients with the same illness could stay for an identical period of time and appear to use the same resources but, if one had the illness more severely, he would require higher drug or nursing costs. Those additional costs have not been included. If that is a systematic difference between two health boards, regional inequalities in cost may not have been taken into account. There are mixed concerns about unemployment figures. First, the number of unemployment benefit claimants and figures on income support have only recently been available. Those statistics were not used in the English and Welsh allocations, although they were used in the Northern Ireland allocations. They are extremely powerful predictors of the use of hospital services—as we might expect—and they have the advantage that, unlike census data, they are not eight years out of date. The data refer to last year and can be updated annually. However, any change in the way in which those figures are calculated will have a knock-on effect on the formula. I do not know how great that effect would be—that would depend on the likely changes. That is what I mean when I say that we should at least examine the sensitivity of the overall formula to the unemployment figures. We must see how changes in unemployment figures might reflect back to the allocations and whether every change in the counting of unemployment figures would necessitate the complete re-estimation of the formula. Does that answer your question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 284883,
      "EditedText": "Population size is important in terms of the per capita allocation to a health board, as are issues of settlement size. For example, one of the needs indicators is the proportion of the population who live in communities of more than 1,000, 5,000 or 10,000 inhabitants. Those are fairly arbitrary cut-off lines and we explore whether there are alternatives that make more sense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 284885,
      "EditedText": "I take your point about changes to benefits and the individuals affected. The analyses that we have been looking at were done at small area level rather than at the individual level, so we are not looking at the relationship between an individual in receipt of benefit and the use of services but between the level of benefit going to an area and the use of services. If a change to benefits has more of an effect on some areas than on others, that would have even more of a knock-on effect. However, a change in the level of income support might not affect rural more than urban communities, for example—we would still have something to represent the use of services by people in receipt of benefits. The nature of the relationship between benefit receipt and use of services may change. That is why I suggested a need to revisit and re-estimate the formula, but I hope that we would not exclude people just because the proportion who are in receipt of a benefit had changed. If 10 per cent of the population are in receipt of a benefit and a Government measure reduces that to 5 per cent across the board, as long as the formula is adjusted so that we double the importance placed on that benefit, we are back to where we started. If the proportion varies in different communities—in some it stays at 10 per cent and in others it is at five per cent—that is significant. I do not know how to address that—it is one of the areas that calls for further research, by economists rather than by statisticians. The out-patient data collected are, as you said, on first attendance at a clinic. My biggest concern is that, just as over the past few years we have seen a move in hospitals from in-patient to day-case services, we are also now seeing a move from day-case to out-patient services. We do not have sufficient detail on out-patient services. At the moment, we are assuming uniformity throughout the country. If that assumption is correct, it is sufficient just to take account of the first attendance for a patient, because that assumes an overall package of care. However, it is more likely that only some hospitals are moving patients to out-patient services and away from day-case surgery. The out-patient data should be brought into line with in-patient and day-case records, which means including the diagnosis and management of the patient and a record of attendance for each visit, rather than one per patient. I know that that entails extra administration and expense and is not likely to be a popular use of health resources, but I believe that it would enhance our ability to understand how out-patient services are used and to look at equitable allocation for out-patient services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 284886,
      "EditedText": "You indicated that GP prescribing data appear to be robust. You also referred to the national average cost data. Obviously, those data refer to the cost of drugs, not to the cost of the management of patients.Recently, the Accounts Commission advised us that there was wide variation in Scotland in the management of patients with regard to the drugs that were prescribed to them and that a significant saving for the health service had been identified. I take it from your comments that you were not privy to the information that was held by the commission. Is it possible that that matter could be revisited, thereby freeing up more money to be reallocated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 284889,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is right. I am not entirely sure about the prescribing data because they are not my area of expertise. I am not sure to what extent the difficulties that you identified would allow the opportunity to revisit the prescribing allocation.The use of average cost data is still averaging out expenditure across health boards, so if some GPs in some health boards are prescribing more expensive drugs, their allocation is not being increased accordingly—any increased allocation is coming from the health boards concerned. The use of average cost data means that allocations to health boards that are prescribing more expensive drugs are reduced.If the more efficient prescription cost data were used rather than the average cost data, that would reduce the weighting given to the prescribing block in the allocation formula, allowing the prescription money to be reallocated to any of the blocks, including back to the prescription block. I think that that addresses your point that there is a cost saving to be made within prescribing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 284890,
      "EditedText": "A significant cost saving."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 284892,
      "EditedText": "Has the report been subject to peer review, and what part should peer review play in the on-going monitoring and reviewing of the allocation process? Is it your contention that, instead of ad hoc reviews, there should be a standing group to review this matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 284897,
      "EditedText": "That is a question of joined-up government and falls outside the remit of the review, which examines health expenditure. However, I take your point about the assumption that the money is used to buy the same services in all health boards. Quebec has come up with the idea of a one-number allocation—one that covers health, social services and the complete range of centrally funded expenditure. Perhaps that is a question for a committee with a wider remit than this committee, but it might be an area for future exploration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 284900,
      "EditedText": "I will move on to another question.I have always found accident statistics to be particularly barren in terms of our being able to examine them to try to prevent accidents. What did you find on that? Did you examine any of the accident and emergency statistics?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 284901,
      "EditedText": "The closest that we came was through the disaggregation of the acute services statistics. That included injury and poisonings as a separate disease block, which includes services provided for accident and emergency. That was to cover the expenditure faced by health boards and what predicted that expenditure on those increasingly important issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 284903,
      "EditedText": "If I may add to Dorothy's point, child health is meant to be a priority for the health service. A couple of boards have mentioned that that was not considered as a separate issue. Should children's health have been considered in that way? That brings in accidents, as they are a big component of why children are in hospital."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 284905,
      "EditedText": "I was aware, from some of the submissions that we have received, that there are areas of work that health boards undertake which this review had not touched on. The review did not seem to have taken into account that work in its indicators or weighting. One area that was mentioned was child health. Another was health promotion, into which more health boards are putting more of their resources.I will lead those points into another question. Would it be fair to say—this is a concern raised by Lothian Health and Forth Valley Health Board—that the review is a snapshot in time, based on the available data, which tends to be more in the acute field? At the same time, health boards such as Lothian are moving to more innovative ways of giving out care, whether that be primary or community care.Do you feel that the incentives to encourage the movement towards community care and primary care that the Executive and the Government want are there, or does the review give incentives to a more established, older form of care, which is the one for which we have the data at the moment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 284912,
      "EditedText": "You mention pockets of problems of access. Given the problems that remote rural and island Scotland face, do you think that it is right that Arbuthnott has not given any extra weighting to indicators of deprivation, morbidity, age, sex or remoteness? They are included almost equally. Is it fair to say that you downplay the needs of rural patients who have access problems, but think that greater weighting should be given to deprivation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 284917,
      "EditedText": "It would be inappropriate for us to try to duplicate the work of Arbuthnott. In other words, we do not need to hold another exhaustive, comprehensive inquiry. That work has already been done. The question for us is whether the Arbuthnott report is fundamentally correct in its approach and whether it makes a useful contribution to moving things forward. It is also for us to ascertain whether there are any mistakes at the margins that need to be identified and rectified. If we accept the premise that it has a contribution to make, can improvements be made at the margins?I was therefore intrigued by your opening remark and your concluding remarks. You opened by saying that Arbuthnott was as good a job as could be done with the available data and you concluded by saying that you welcomed Arbuthnott because it leads us into a debate on what the health service should do. In between, however, you seemed to cast some fundamental doubts on some of the work that had been done. If the Arbuthnott report did not exist, what would you put in its place that would be different?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 284919,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for not being here sooner. I was at a meeting of the Finance Committee.It is right to say that this committee should not do the work of Arbuthnott again. Rather, we should comment on how effective it is, which will depend on the outcomes. In five or seven years' time, if Arbuthnott still rules, will the gaps in life expectancy have narrowed? That is not exclusively a health service matter; it obviously affects other services. It is fundamentally important that we make recommendations in our report about the data collection systems that should now be put in place or the emendations that should be made to current systems to ensure that the next round of the SHARE process—whether conducted by Arbuthnott or not—is based on data that are even sounder than the data that we have now. It will never be perfect, and the point about the deprivation category score is fundamental. We should make a strong recommendation about the flaw in CMR. It is a good data collection system. In addition, we should request an operative report to indicate how that would be brought in. The opportunity for recording morbidity and co-morbidity is limited for the single-handed practices and the small group practices with high deprivation category scores in Glasgow that you mentioned. They will require substantial additional resources. Although the CMR system allows the recording of multiple morbidity, it does not link up to the social and family sides in the way that is needed. We could make some specific recommendations in that area. Do you think that that is another blind alley, or is it a route that is worth going down?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 284927,
      "EditedText": "Like scoring goals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 284928,
      "EditedText": "It is good if you can score goals as well, but what is a goal? When we try to prevent something, a success is something that does not happen—strokes that do not occur or heart attacks that do not happen. As someone once said, there are no grateful patients in preventive medicine. We need a different type of incentive system to assess whether a practice is good because things have not happened. That requires two kinds of intelligence: organised information that says what is happening and another approach that tries to understand whether that is good or bad. Scoring goals is an interesting issue.To return to added cost, what works is well-organised care—doing simple things well for large numbers of people. That is why it is better to be in a research trial—even in the placebo group—because the care will be well organised. There are some good studies, although somewhat anecdotal, which show that well-organised care delivers better results all round.For example, there was an interesting study in the United States, on hypertension detection and follow-up. The investigators could not do a randomised control trial of treating high blood pressure because consumer demand would not tolerate a placebo. That is one of the things that we should bear in mind when we encourage a consumer-driven health service. Instead, they randomised patients, either to special hypertension care, or to whatever care they would usually receive under the US health service. Although the investigators never said so, they were in effect carrying out a randomised control trial of a comprehensive health service free at the point of need—targeted on hypertension, but dealing with other complaints—using the market-driven American system as a control. At the end of the trial, they had to explain why mortality improved, not just in cardiovascular events, but in non-cardiovascular events, including cancer, which could not be attributed to hypertensive treatment.The point that the example demonstrates is that well-organised care delivered to groups with high needs is effective. It is more difficult to deliver that in areas where practices are small and where people feel that they are drowning in demand. That is where the added costs come from. It is more expensive to deliver that high-quality care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 284937,
      "EditedText": "Convener, this committee has a loaded brief."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 284938,
      "EditedText": "The purpose of our investigation is not to ask everyone who comes before us whether we spend enough on health care, which is basically what you are asking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 284939,
      "EditedText": "No, not entirely. It has always struck me as passing strange that such a comprehensive and expensive review has not included that issue at all and has been confined merely to moving things around. However, if you object to that question, I will move on to another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 284946,
      "EditedText": "I cannot say more than you have said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 284947,
      "EditedText": "Can we take it that that remark turns Irene's question into a statement? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 284956,
      "EditedText": "I have no idea. I do know that simply to say that there should be more non-cash-limited GMS in an area does not automatically translate into a load of dosh that can be spent on health services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 284961,
      "EditedText": "SHARE had to be updated for all the reasons that were indicated. It has been updated, and it is the best that can be done with the data. The first thing that I said was that the worst outcome would be for people to sit back and say, \"Well, we've dealt with that now.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 284963,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a view on that. Rather than the implementation of Arbuthnott, the things that interest me most will come after Arbuthnott."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 284964,
      "EditedText": "Given that social differences and life expectancy discrepancies are widening, despite the intentions of the SHARE formula, it seems at least questionable whether a small shift in national health service resources such as the one considered by Arbuthnott will halt, let alone reverse, current trends.Earlier, you were talking of general practitioners in Glasgow, and you said that you felt that they were drowning in a sea of need and demand. In future, would you wish the remit of another review committee to be a bit wider? Arbuthnott's remit was very narrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 284968,
      "EditedText": "One of the things that Arbuthnott shows is the limited nature of the advances that can be made in policy, with the help of statisticians and civil servants. Some of those big decisions are political, and can be dealt with only by politicians, not by professionals. The political issues that Arbuthnott raises are very important—especially at the outset of the Parliament—because if some of those issues are not addressed now, they will not be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 284969,
      "EditedText": "Some things are coming through in the submissions and comments that have been made to us. There is a certain amount of stretching of plausibility in some cases, when one looks at what they mean in practical terms. You have made a point about the difference between secondary and primary care. If all around you the movement in health care is towards primary and community care, having a formula that is almost institutionalising institutional care does not sit easily with everything else that is going on, such as \"Designed to Care\", dealing with health inequalities and so on.There are many reasons for regarding Arbuthnott as a first step—Sir John himself said that we must proceed with caution. The committee has to find a way of doing that. We have to find ways of doing things better, to deliver a health gain.Thank you, Professor Watt, for speaking to us and answering our questions. I thank the committee for its attention. We will reconvene at 2 o'clock, when our first witness will be Margaret Pullin from the Royal College of Nursing."
    },
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      "ID": 134
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:16"
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting resumed in public."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C284778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
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      "EditedText": "Those are matters that were given much thought by the steering group. I start with the question of population estimates. The formula starts with population numbers, moves on to age, sex and the life circumstances that I mentioned, particularly in relation to deprivation, and finally takes into account the additional costs of the ruralities. The steering group considered the choice of population in relation to mid-year estimates to be a reliable method. The experts in the matter, the General Register Office for Scotland, recommended that approach.Although the estimates are perhaps two years behind, they are robust, and measure the relative distribution of population fairly and accurately. We could have looked at the list sizes available from general practices, but—for reasons that are given in the report—those are not reliable. It is possible to make population projections. However, if we made allocations on the basis of projections that turned out to be wrong, we would have to answer for it. It was a question of balance. I am not sure whether I have convinced you, convener, but that is the reason why we used mid-year estimates.Your next question was about postcodes. I hope that the reason for using that approach is clear in the report. It would be desirable, but it is not possible, to base our formula, background and statistics on what we know about the incidence of individual diseases in particular areas and even in individual members of the community. Unfortunately, we do not have epidemiological public health information to do that on a wide enough basis to make it reliable, although we hope to use that approach in future. In addition, individual statistics are a confidential matter.Postcodes give a great deal of information. I understand your point that postcodes contain a mixture of citizens of various means, but we are considering them throughout the country and comparing the characteristics of health boards to a national average. The postcodes give us a relatively fine discriminator for that. The averaging effect takes account of any worries that you might have about variations in deprivation.Your third point was about single indicators of life circumstance. The list of indicators in the study that were investigated for their relevance is the largest that has been used in this approach. It has the advantage of being broadly based and inclusive, and, as can be seen in the technical report, has enabled the economists and the statisticians to evaluate all the individual factors.The disadvantage, hinted at at the beginning of the report, is that trying to follow the statistics is a difficult task. I assure you that the indicators were properly analysed, and only where individual life circumstance measures were at a significant level did the steering group consider them further.The decision tree in the report shows how we took the information that was provided to us by the statisticians and the able group of experts that supported the steering group. The decision tree, illustrating which individual life circumstances were included, is laid out in the report. I hope that it is reasonably clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284779",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
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      "EditedText": "Mary, did you have a supplementary question?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284785",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 284785,
      "EditedText": "Has any account been taken of efficiency savings? If we are only looking at a reallocation of two per cent and, as we all know, one health board can make a pound go further than another, has account been taken of best practice in that?As a Highlands and Islands member, I know that the Highlands will benefit. I am also aware that many patients from the Highlands and Islands travel to centres like Edinburgh for specialist treatment. I hope that the reduction in funding for Lothian will not be a disbenefit to patients in the Highlands whom the reallocation is supposed to help. How can you be sure that it actually targets deprivation and all the factors you have mentioned?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C284786",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 284786,
      "EditedText": "My first principle was that, as a citizen of Scotland, wherever I am I expect equal access to health services. Our committee's remit was to come up with a mechanism for resource allocation. We had to face one fundamental question: regardless of the size of the pot of money for health, how would we ensure that the allocation is fair? We therefore compiled the formula that I explained in the answer to the previous question: numbers, age, sex, life circumstances and remoteness. Analysed on the basis of postcode, which, as I said, was the best approach available, that gives us a broad-brush allocation to health boards. That was the limit of our remit. We were not asked to say how health boards should spend that money. Health boards, trusts and their individual components have to account for their spending; they are expected to report to the Scottish Executive health department on a whole range of indicators of efficiency. I cannot say that health boards will mirror what the steering group has recommended is allocated to them in the way that they spend the money.On the second question, we also have to take into account that this is not just about isolated health boards. People in rural and island communities do not have the reassurance of being close to a big teaching hospital; for some treatments they must be transported to such hospitals and their relatives may have to accompany them. There are other allocations and policy making to consider, which I presume this committee is following very carefully, such as the acute services review and the other health measures set in train through the \"Designed to Care\" approach to health in Scotland, which will have to address that question.Is it preferable to provide specialist hospitals close to communities or to have better provision in Lothian or Glasgow or Dundee and make good transport arrangements? That is an area where expenditure on health is integrated. The Government is likely to be looking for a clear indication of where health boards will have to work together on that issue, and the health boards in remote areas will have a big say on that—they have a right to expect the provision of specialist services. I hope that the recommendations of this review and any decisions made on its implementation by ministers do not undermine the provision of core facilities for people in remote communities."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C284790",
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      "ID": 1687
    },
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      "ID": 134
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 284790,
      "EditedText": "I will try to let you have anything more there is on that in writing. I gave the committee separate information on waiting times and supply."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C284792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 284792,
      "EditedText": "I am pausing to gather my thoughts. One way of explaining it is that if you live very close to a service, whether a community service or a hospital, then you are in a preferential position in being able to make use of it. The further away you are, the less advantaged you are. If we are to make an allocation that is fair wherever you sit or stand or work in Scotland, we must take account of that. Basically we are talking about a distance factor, with some twirls in it."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284801",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 284801,
      "EditedText": "I welcome what you said about the fact that the review is a work in progress, but one of the issues that arises when one reads the report and the submissions from the various parties is the divide between the concept and the practicality of the report. The report seems to be an academically pure exercise, but I am not sure that it stands up in terms of some of the practicalities. I give two examples. The first is the idea of joined-up government, which people talk about constantly, but which is an important part of what we are trying to do. How satisfied are you that this report embodies that principle, particularly in terms of the relationships between health boards and local authorities?You mentioned the acute services review. That was not bound by health board boundaries, but this report seems to be. Are you happy that health board boundaries are the best measurement to use and that there is proper integration across Government and not just in the area that the report addresses?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C284804",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 284804,
      "EditedText": "Remember that what we are doing is trying to channel resources to areas of need. There is no short, logical mental arithmetic that can be performed to avoid addressing the main issue: are we allocating resources to where the need is? Are we being fair to the people who live in deprived circumstances, and to those who live in remote areas? That is the issue at the heart of this report, and it is what we have striven to address.The evidence base, as I have indicated, could always be improved. For example, the data on the community aspects of health are limited, but we are ahead of the game, because we have taken the work of four trusts that have paid particular attention to how they use community health information. We analysed that work rigorously and concluded that the trusts that are involved are not unrepresentative of Scotland. One of the first priorities in this report is to do more work on community health statistics and on inequalities, but we have to start somewhere, and we think that the report is a good start.The continuous morbidity records have increasingly been fed in by 70 practices over the past five years or so. The information may only represent 11 per cent of the population, but it comes from 70 representative practices, and to ignore it would be to ignore good data. The data are better than what is available in England, Wales or Northern Ireland, so we have given Scotland a good start. Databases must be improved—I am not pretending that they are perfect—but they represent a good start.When you ask whether the formula will hold up and be practical, you must remember that we live in the real world. I conducted this review in the only way that I could. Put yourself in the position that I was in. What do you do? You have a committee, which obviously represents the interests of Scotland. The only way of doing the analysis fairly was to do it all anonymously. I did not know where the data originated. That anonymised approach enabled us to have rational discussions, after which we said, \"We have done all the work that we need to do. Let's now identify how the resources will pan out.\"When the resources pan out, of course every health board manager will try to squeeze out the best deal for their board and there will be accusations that the steering group has not done this or that. In that event, this committee, and the minister, must say, \"We hear what you are saying. If there is significant evidence that we must make modifications, we will take it into account, and we may well make modifications.\" I can think of one health board in which we might do something already. That is the right approach to take, but there will be a lot of self-interest when it comes to the allocation of money. I am sorry that I took so long in answering your question."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284805",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 284805,
      "EditedText": "It is evident from the submissions that we have had that there is self-interest. Nevertheless, the submissions contain some good points. For example, the area covered by Argyll and Clyde Health Board contains a large number of islands but the board is not treated like an island health board."
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 284808,
      "EditedText": "Most of the data were based on the 1991 census and we are only a couple of years away from the next census. That is a problem, because Scotland has changed considerably since 1991. Health boards that cover areas with the greatest deprivation, in particular Greater Glasgow Health Board and Lanarkshire Health Board, are especially critical of the report. We have just received their submissions, so I do not know whether you will have had the opportunity to read them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 284814,
      "EditedText": "I accept what you said, Sir John, about different methods and approaches for different areas, but earlier you expressed an aspiration that everyone in Scotland should have equality of access to health provision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 284816,
      "EditedText": "You also posed a couple of questions: \"Do we want to channel resources to where need exists?\" and \"Are we being fair to deprived areas?\" Those questions weigh heavily and underpin much of what Dorothy said. Will you explain what further work is planned on examining the inequalities in health provision and on identifying ways of eradicating them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 284819,
      "EditedText": "The third option would move even larger amounts of money. That is a fact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 284821,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but according to different approaches. There are different ways of analysing the situation. We considered one way that is certainly acceptable but that may not move enough money. We considered another way that would begin to look for good practice among health boards. Some health boards allocate more money to deprived areas than others do; the question is how that good practice can be implemented throughout the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 284825,
      "EditedText": "I have explained that we are in the middle of working this out and that those figures are what have emerged. There is no doubt that an adjustment must be made; this is a matter of evaluating what that adjustment must be. We must be fair, as we are dealing not only with deprivation, but with people in Scotland as a whole. The evidence substantiates the conclusions that were reached in the report. We hope to be able to circulate an update that will enable people to consult on the extent to which those conclusions are fair, statistically reasonable and meet the needs of people in deprived areas. That is one of the features that we highlighted in the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 284827,
      "EditedText": "In the conclusions, we recommend that those gaps be filled. Indeed, we have been up front about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 284832,
      "EditedText": "The margarine may be spread thinner and more fairly, but the amount of money that is proposed for the whole of Scotland is not large—it is only about £73 million. I assure you that £4 million or even £21 million for the greater Glasgow area is peanuts given the massive scale of deprivation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 284835,
      "EditedText": "No, I have a more specific point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 284842,
      "EditedText": "I was not allowed to look at that at all, although I hope that colleagues will give us a little bit of credit for having opened up that aspect. What has just been said is important. There may well be more than one route towards dealing with inequalities. The problem is not new—folk have known about it all the time and, living in Glasgow, I am aware of it—but there may be a new way of dealing with it. That could partly be done through resource allocation, as I was asked to do with this formula, but there could equally be integrated, joined-up Government initiatives that would allocate money for particular purposes. It was not for me to make such a suggestion but, having heard it, I think that it is an interesting approach and I am sure that there will be much discussion about it. There is not just one way of treating this problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 284845,
      "EditedText": "Possibly as a cure for insomnia."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 284847,
      "EditedText": "I want some clarification. Earlier, you talked about the challenges for island communities. As I understand it, the disbursal of moneys from central Government to local authorities currently takes account of a special adjustment for the islands. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 284848,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 284849,
      "EditedText": "Is it also true that there is a special adjustment for islands in the current formula?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 284852,
      "EditedText": "It is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 284854,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I understand your point. We have considered the outcome of the estimates on resource allocation through the new approach, which takes account of remoteness, rurality and—you can see it throughout—the extent to which the islands are involved, which comes out startlingly. If one were to compare that outcome with current sharing—taking account of a little extra money going to the Highlands and Islands as a result of the sparsity factor—the difference can be found in weighting, which has been summarised in the tables at the end of the report. One Highland board made a suggestion that can speak for itself. We have not taken into account one group of factors—communication between the islands and the mainland and the ferrying about of people to key resources—although we may well end up taking account of it. We have not heard the end of these discussions with the island boards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 284859,
      "EditedText": "It is only 22 days on, and you are reviewing it already. Thank you, Sir John, for giving us your time.We will have a comfort break for a few minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 284860,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 284861,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 284865,
      "EditedText": "That is possible once there are sufficient data. I do not think that we yet have sufficient knowledge of the additional costs of providing services to island health boards, for example. I heard your question to Sir John as to whether Argyll and Clyde Health Board should be treated as an island board or as a mainland board. I do not think that the new formula is perfect, but I think that it is a step forward. We need further research and more data needs to be collected. Eventually, we will be able to have one formula that fits all. That will include adjustments. I have not seen any of the submissions that the health boards have made, but the consultation is not just for people to defend their positions, but for them to give feedback and to indicate in which areas research needs to be carried out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 284872,
      "EditedText": "Are we also saying that those schemes should be extended to the members of a general practice team other than the GP and that those people should be seeing patients face to face more often?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 284876,
      "EditedText": "Could you say something about community psychiatric care? What sorts of measures should we be examining? What sorts of data should we be trying to collect to make the information more robust? As we heard from Sir John, we are not going to wait 22 years for a review—we want an on-going review. I am trying to think ahead and I am trying to think what we can do to make the situation better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 284882,
      "EditedText": "It does. I was interested in the point on population size, if we can return to the islands for a moment. There is a critical mass argument that says that the swings in funding are so great because of the population size. Is that something that you would come down on as a flaw?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 284891,
      "EditedText": "I think that work could be done on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 284894,
      "EditedText": "Are you concerned about the lack of projection in the report? Sir John talked about how much it relied on here-and-now population figures. Given the lack of projection in more affluent areas, the projected health problems will probably be less in future. The report does not give much weighting to projected populations or, indeed, to the projected health conditions of people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 284895,
      "EditedText": "The majority of health care expenditure is on service provision—on the here-and-now problems—and keeps people running. The projected problems might be more of a concern for health promotion, if there were a separate budget for health promotion based on factors such as known tobacco use in teenagers, with projections of health service requirements in 30 years' time.However, the use of resources over the coming year can be predicted fairly accurately, based on current utilisation. Not only are the same people using the services from one year to the next, but the same problems are occurring in the same areas. The fact that we do not have a long-term projection is not necessarily detrimental. We pull people out of the river, rather than going upstream to see who is pushing them in. If substantial increased funding was put into health services, one could consider long-term health spending. At the moment, we are looking at keeping the country running."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 284896,
      "EditedText": "The report does not take into account the fact that many health boards transfer resources into the social services budget—although different amounts are involved—because of the shortfall in funding that social services receive through local authorities. As local authorities do not use the same weighting or calculations, that does not take into account the fact that, for example, Grampian might bail out—or assist—social work less than Ayrshire might, because of the aging population. Should such assistance be given, or should that be part of the way in which we look at joined-up government, which was mentioned earlier?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 284898,
      "EditedText": "I think that you have summed up aptly what a number of us feel, when you said that you are pulling people out of the river rather than going upstream to see who is pushing them in and why. On the £76 million that is to be reallocated—we should stress that it is not extra expenditure—I will ask you an unfair question. I am sure that it was not in your remit, but you must have thought about this issue. How much more do you think would need to be spent on Scottish health to make a real difference?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 284902,
      "EditedText": "Will it be worth diverting expertise to help accident prevention? More detailed breakdowns could be produced, such as child accidents, what category, what area, and pooled nationally in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 284904,
      "EditedText": "I do not know how the consideration of child health separately from adult health would have benefited the review. It would have been a possibility. We considered, for example, making a distinction between medical and surgical admissions or between emergency admissions and elected admissions, but eventually decided on the separate disease blocks. There is a separate block for the elderly non-acute care for geriatric long staying. It could be argued that child health should be a separate block along the same lines, so that it could be targeted. Remember that this is about acute expenditure, not about prevention. This is about targeting the resources needed to treat children in Scottish hospitals. It is possible to use the data to separate the services used by children.Accident prevention is, at the moment, left to health boards. I am not sure if your question is whether the review should lead to a different allocation of resources to health boards so that they can target accident prevention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 284908,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 284925,
      "EditedText": "Most of the matters that I was going to raise have been mentioned already, but I go along with what Margaret Jamieson was saying about areas such as Ayrshire, where there is a preponderance of elderly people because of the nursing homes and residential homes in the area. Your point on co-morbidity is well made and I am sure that the committee will bear it in mind when we produce our report. Your second main point is:\"Research is needed on the added costs of delivering effective care in deprived areas.\"Could you expand a little on what you mean by added costs? I was also concerned by your statement on Greater Glasgow Health Board and Lanarkshire Health Board, in which you ask why they have not made greater use of their non-cash-limited element of general medical services. Could you expand a wee bit on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284911",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Graham Watt (Department of General Practice, University of Glasgow): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 284911,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for asking me before the committee again. I may repeat myself, as I do not think that all members were at the informal briefing.I am commenting on the Arbuthnott report rather than criticising it. I think that Arbuthnott has done as good a job as is possible with the available data. The report is timely and important. I am not concerned so much about the detail—I want to turn the microscope upside down and look at the broad picture.From my point of view, the worst thing that could happen as a result of the Arbuthnott report would be for us to think that something very substantial had been achieved. I do not think that that stands up to examination. Of the 12 mainland health boards, only three will find that their share of the NHS budget in Scotland will change by more than 0.1 of 1 per cent as a result of Arbuthnott. The three are Glasgow and Ayrshire and Arran, which gain, and Lothian, which loses. That is a very small shift.There are a number of reasons for that. One is that the process is essentially conservative: it starts from the status quo, which is the source of the data. The status quo includes SHARE, which—whatever its strengths—over a period of 20 years has been associated with adverse trends in life expectancy in the population as a whole. As one of the previous witnesses said, there are questions as to whether the status quo is about right.There is another reason, to do with data, for the fact that the effects are small, particularly on the community and general practice side. In the paper that I submitted, I flagged up two issues. The first was coverage. We eventually obtained some data on the coverage of practices by the CMR scheme. In 11 per cent of practices in Scotland, more than 30 per cent of patients qualify for deprivation payments. Of those, 88 per cent are in Glasgow, where 44 per cent of all practices are eligible. However, only 3 per cent of the CMR practices meet the criterion. The Information and Statistics Division itself says that all its data for deprivation category 7 come from one practice.Quite apart from that, the coverage underestimates the extent of need: counting consultations does not tell us what is going on in those consultations. One word that I would ask the committee to remember is co-morbidity—the extent to which social as well as health problems are concentrated not just in individuals, but in families. They concentrate in families, those families concentrate in practices and those practices concentrate in particular areas. There are multiplying effects at each level that make it more difficult to deliver health care.The final reason that this report is fairly modest in its implications is that it is preoccupied with issues of access. I think that the importance of those issues is overemphasised. The health service was invented to address problems of access and, generally, I think that access is not the problem. There may be pockets where there are problems of access, but that is not why the health service finds it difficult to deliver effective care equitably.I want to amplify that point. If the health service says that it will be there for people when they are born, when they die, if they have an accident and when they fall ill, that is providing access. However, those events happen to people at different times in their lives. What the literature on deprivation tells us is that problems happen earlier to people in deprived circumstances—when they are in their 60s rather than in their 70s.A service that is preoccupied with access will provide the services whenever clinical events occur. The service should also do something about when those differences occur by preventing or delaying initial clinical events or their complications. That has different implications for what the health service is trying to do or should be doing. I welcome Arbuthnott because, whether we like it or not, it leads us into a debate on what the health service can do to address inequalities in health care. We do not know the answer to that question, which is why Arbuthnott calls for research, but the answer is, almost certainly, more than is done now. I have made other points in my paper, but I will not talk about them just now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 284913,
      "EditedText": "There are obvious added costs in providing equitable access and care in rural areas because of the distances and the lack of economies of scale. The question is not whether, but to what extent one tries to address that. There are also added costs in delivering effective care in deprived areas that are less easy to identify and quantify. One could ask what health gains the £60 million that will be redistributed because of problems of rurality will buy? The boards that are affected by large rural hinterlands are quite different. Grampian, for example, stands to gain a number of millions of pounds on the hospital side, but its population has the longest life expectancy of any in the country: 74 years for men and 80 years for women. To redistribute resources simply on the grounds that the added costs of delivering health care can be identified is to answer a different kind of question. I do not say that that should not be done, but part of the ongoing agenda is to ask what problems we are trying to solve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 284914,
      "EditedText": "I see a forest of hands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 284916,
      "EditedText": "The sums can be done in different ways. I used the statistic that you mention when I was comparing mainland health boards and examining the shift from east to west for a particular purpose. The money could be cut up differently, and there are flows in different directions—£60 million for rurality; £50 million for age and sex; and £125 million for mobility and life circumstances—but the net result is between 1 and 2 per cent. The difference between the 1 per cent that I quoted and the 2 per cent is that we are slightly on either side of 1.5 per cent, but that is quibbling over a small detail. The shift is small and it does not seem likely that it will have a big effect. The issue of co-morbidity is interesting and rings a bell with anyone who works on the front line. There is no research literature that dots the i's and crosses the t's, but when I talk to colleagues or have meetings in the Glasgow area about the issue, there is no doubt that people feel that they are drowning in a sea of need and demand that is concentrated within families. On secondary to primary care, I felt that it was important to make the point that the redistribution within general medical services is counter to the Government policy of valuing and supporting decision making in primary care. To take resources from Grampian, Borders and Lothian or to introduce zero growth seems to be a contrary development when the issue is not to level up within the budget, but to transfer budget from secondary to primary care. In my paper, I contrasted the constellation of academic support that there is for different care programmes. One point that I did not make as explicitly as I would have liked is that the primary care component should underpin them all, because there is not a patient in acute services—although Henrik Larsson may be the exception—who is not there as a result of a decision taken on primary care. The tradition of decision making in primary care is essentially pragmatic and conscientious. By and large, it serves everybody well, because money is not a feature of the consultation, altruism rules and people have professional standards, although there are problems at the extremes that increasingly interest the General Medical Council. In general, the system gives us a health service where the balance of work between primary and secondary care is more efficient than in countries where patients have readier access to specialties. However, pragmatism and conscientiousness in decision making on individual patients are no substitute for taking a strategic approach to decisions on the best way of deploying resources, particularly in deprived areas. That is why I made the point that there are issues endemic to primary care in deprived areas that require not just an injection of resources, but the culture to be supported, which involves many elements. To give an example, 150,000 people living in deprivation categories 6 and 7 in Glasgow are registered with general practices with one or two general practitioners, of which 32 practices are run single-handedly and have average list sizes of 1,900. Such practices have many strengths, because of the individuals involved in them, but it seems unlikely that they represent the best way in which to deliver a full range of services in areas characterised by high need and demand. There are issues of how general practice is configured and how it has evolved in the circumstances in which it works, which should be addressed strategically."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 284922,
      "EditedText": "To pick up your point about whether the money would be transferred, I was at a meeting of general practitioners from different health boards a couple of weeks ago. One of them, who was potentially in a gaining board, said that the board would never see the money, as it would be used to pay nurses' salaries. It is interesting to contrast the Arbuthnott recommendations that there should be monitoring of resources that are shifted. I am not aware that there is such a mechanism for monitoring shifts in resources from secondary to primary care as the work is transferred."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 284930,
      "EditedText": "A colleague in my department examined access to coronary revascularisation procedures, which I think is a model in some ways. The data in the Arbuthnott report on social variation in access to bypass crafting are a typical example of data based on hospital sources. Such data do not tell us whether differences reflect decisions made by cardiologists at out-patients as to who will or will not have the procedure; whether the decision is made by general practitioners at the point of referral; or whether the decision is made by patients in their response to symptoms. In our study, we found that patients did not differ much. They knew what a pain in their chest meant and then went into the system. The explanation of that social variation is in the system somewhere. My hunch is that such variation happens at the point of referral, not at out-patients, although I could be wrong.In June, we had a symposium on the well-known inverse care law, which means that the availability of good medical care tends to vary inversely with the population's need for that care. The origins of the inverse care law predate the NHS, as the law comes automatically with a market-driven health service. The NHS was designed to solve that, in regard to access. Our social differences are more subtle than the cruder differences in the US and are different in different conditions and perhaps for different areas. I do not think that there is an across-the-board law of nature called the inverse care law that we can apply to all conditions. We need to examine the different aspects of the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 284931,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about a comment in the British Medical Association's submission. You might not have seen the submissions from other groups; indeed, we have seen only some of them. Do you agree with the BMA's statement that\"a major drawback of the Review is that it does not address the chronic overall underfunding of the National Health Service in Scotland. We realise that this was not its remit, but consider it as a missing material factor\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 284932,
      "EditedText": "I must stop you there. I think that you are just rewording a question that you asked the previous witness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 284935,
      "EditedText": "I was going to go on to the review. Does Professor Watt object to answering my question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 284940,
      "EditedText": "I do object. Could you limit your questions to the remit of the review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 284943,
      "EditedText": "Okay. We will move on to Glasgow, if you please. Greater Glasgow Health Board's statement highlights the community services formula from the Arbuthnott report. The statement says: \"It suggests that Glasgow's spending per head on these services would be 3.3% less than the national average. If we did actually spend in this way it would mean a reduction of about 22% in services such as physiotherapy, district nursing and health visiting at a time when we are looking to invest more in order to meet health inequalities, communities development and social inclusion objectives\".Do you agree with that, Professor Watt? Indeed, although I am sure that you have had to take so much into account, did you notice that passage in particular?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 284944,
      "EditedText": "I was aware that Greater Glasgow Health Board was concerned about the community services formula, which was based on data from surveys carried out in Dundee, Edinburgh, Renfrewshire and Highland. The choice of those locations is justified in terms of the base population being broadly comparable with the Scottish population as a whole. Other issues are whether those surveys, which, I believe, comprise activity data for district nurses and health visitors for 1996 and 1997, provide a true reflection of the needs of people in those areas and whether the areas are typical of deprivation categories 6 and 7. There are deprived areas in Dundee, Edinburgh and Highland, but they are less concentrated than in the west of Scotland. There are questions about that part of the formula."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 284949,
      "EditedText": "That is part of a broader issue connected with the final column in table 16.4—the non-cash-limited part of GMS, which Arbuthnott felt that he could not consolidate with the rest of the budget as it was a different system. There are questions about whether that system is capable of viring that amount of money and about the way in which money in that system can be accessed and used strategically. You reflect views that have also been expressed in Glasgow. I have heard colleagues say that they do not see how the additional money for GMS helps as, once put through the formula whereby GPs are paid and rewarded, it is seen as not being helpful. This would not be the time to go into non-cash-limited GMS—a higher degree is needed to be able to understand that. The general point is well made: is the system capable of realising redistributed funds in ways that would be best used to produce health? We have a system: wherever it has come from, it may not be the one to go with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 284952,
      "EditedText": "The factor of rurality has been built into the equation—as well as deprivation and other factors, and we all welcome their inclusion—yet, in the most rural area of Scotland, there is a potential reduction of 20 to 30 GPs. As an economist, I would say that that does not make sense: that rurality is built into the equation, yet there will be fewer resources to address primary care problems than exist already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 284954,
      "EditedText": "To be fair to Professor Arbuthnott, I am sure that he does not understand the intricacies of general medical services—the non-cash-limited component. Nor would the statisticians. They would apply the formula in a rather naive way, which does not understand the system. Once we start trying to apply his recommendations, we run into the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 284955,
      "EditedText": "Do you feel that the BMA's estimate is likely to be accurate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 284959,
      "EditedText": "The main effect of the payments has been to retain general practitioners in deprived areas, more in England than in Scotland, because we have fewer problems of recruitment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 284962,
      "EditedText": "One of the things that the review is stressing—and it is something that the committee will endorse, I think—is the need for constant monitoring and reviewing of the formula, as opposed to what happened with SHARE. Would the best way of doing that be to have a standing group to consider that periodically, rather than having ad hoc groups? What is the best way forward on monitoring and reviewing the Arbuthnott formula?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 284965,
      "EditedText": "Arbuthnott was asked a question, and he provided the answer as far as he could. However, his report leads to another question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7542,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 284772,
      "EditedText": "We have had a useful discussion of our tactics for this morning's meeting. It is nice to have Sir John with us again, and I welcome him and Mike Palmer to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 284773,
      "EditedText": "Last month, Sir John, we had a chance to discuss the report with you, but this is our formal evidence-taking session. I believe that you have been told that you have 10 minutes to provide us with a general overview, after which we will ask questions. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott (Principal, University of Strathclyde): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 284774,
      "EditedText": "I have been asked to make a short opening statement. I do not think that it will take 10 minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 284777,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Sir John. The committee would like to put on record its thanks not only for coming to the committee meeting this morning and meeting us on previous occasions, but for the sheer volume of work that has gone into the production of \"Fair Shares For All\".One of the targets that you set yourself was to make the report transparent. It is fair to say that many of us on the committee have struggled with some of the statistical aspects of the analysis in the report. Obviously, the report has had to be evidence-based, but I would like to pick up on some of those aspects.First, the population projections that you have used are mid-year estimates. It is arguable whether that is the best approach. If one uses mid-year estimates, there is a tendency for the population size of health boards in the east and north of the country to show a decrease and that of health boards in the west to show an increase.Secondly, I want to ask about the use of postcode districts. Members know that there can be great variations in deprivation and so on within postcodes in our constituencies. Several people who have made submissions to us have mentioned rural areas as having great differences between postcodes.Finally, you use single indicators of life circumstance rather than composite measures. Can you give me some thoughts on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 284783,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask a supplementary. I cannot get everything into one question.Unlike SHARE, the review introduces a host of morbidity and life circumstance indicators, yet the proposed aggregate relocation of £76 million is less than 2 per cent of the £3.9 billion covered in the review. Would it be reasonable to conclude that the current allocation of NHS resources, achieved without relying on the new formula, is fair and equitable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 284782,
      "EditedText": "You are correct; that is a fundamental point. If one compares this to making concrete, where one takes proportions of sand, cement and water, we are dealing with a common unit: sand, for example. We are talking about a single unit. It is important that we have not attached particular weightings to these factors. The factors are measures based on the statistical data that we have on population, age, sex, life circumstances and remoteness costs and are worked through in a continuous model.I consider—and I think that the steering group considers—that each one of those factors will influence the allocation of resources to individual health boards in a fair and balanced way. Some health boards will contain much higher levels of deprivation. We have dealt with those factors clearly in our tables. For example, in individual health boards, a rather large swing away from the national average is indicated as being required as a result of the deprived nature of that area. That is important.Equally, we have a single pot of money—a single resource is allocated. We have to moderate that allocation by the additional costs of rurality and remoteness. That has been worked through in a uniform way, on a single unit basis. To do anything else would have been to begin to make judgments, which the steering group and I considered would have been unwise. One would then have had to say, on an evidence base, why we were making that judgment. We considered that the evidence and the statistical approach were worked through fairly in the model we used.A number of people have asked why we did not give more weighting to deprivation, remoteness, or old people as opposed to young people. One becomes involved in a cyclical argument that is almost impossible to break. From a statistical modelling point of view, the steering group approach is valid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 284784,
      "EditedText": "We think that the SHARE working group did an excellent job. One step before SHARE—I am so old that I am probably one of the few people who can remember that—allocations were made on the basis of what had been spent in the previous year. Those responsible for administering our health resources realised that that was not very sensible, as areas could change fundamentally. When SHARE was introduced it did not have the evidence base it was looking for, but used a very reliable piece of evidence: the standardised mortality rate. That gave them a good indicator.For the proportion of the spend that you indicated, there is a relatively small additional shift. I should say that those do not indicate cuts, but where shifts indicate a differential and lower rate of future growth, they are regarded as fairly significant. That has added important refinements, although they are smaller swings than the ones that occurred when SHARE was first introduced. Moreover, for reasons of accountability and openness, and in order to explain to people what is happening, the socio-economic indicators, whether in health, education, industrial economics, or inward investment decisions, will have to be taken into account. The report provides a good, accountable approach.One could extend that slightly further to the two quite controversial recommendations at the end. First, we have indicated that we should do further work on inequality of access to health provision, which may introduce a further swing. That factor will be important. The committee may wish later on to ask me how we are getting on with that. We have done a little more work on that since we published the report.In the work on general medical services the swings are quite a lot bigger than those in the proportion of the formula raised in the question are. It is the first time that general medical services have been included in this kind of review. We do not suggest that such swings are introduced immediately and we are referring it to the relevant Scottish committee for consideration because the swings indicate that our general medical provision is not well suited to the needs of the population of Scotland.The evidence base is justified and it can be updated on an annual basis for things like unemployment, lone parent, old age and other benefits. It can also be updated when the next census information has been analysed. We therefore have an instrument that explains and justifies and is fair, which is as important as the amounts of swing.We must also deal with the new areas we are introducing, inequalities of health care and general medical services, which have not yet really fed through into the recommended allocations but will do so in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 284787,
      "EditedText": "I hope that later you will say something about the new work on the demand factors, especially health inequalities, and the basis of the report's methodology of trying to strip out the supply and demand elements of utilisation of services from the need. However, I want to focus on the adjustment for supply variables that influence service utilisation. What measures of accessibility were used and were alternative measures of accessibility considered for different care programmes? Was the impact on utilisation of other supply-side constraints such as waiting times allowed for in the models? What adjustments were made for the influence on utilisation of teaching hospitals or hospitals providing regional or tertiary services?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 284793,
      "EditedText": "I will not ask about the twirls."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 284794,
      "EditedText": "As you said earlier, you decided against using population projections. In order to allow for changes in population, when would you recommend a review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 284797,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 284800,
      "EditedText": "You are absolutely right. This matter cannot be left for 22 years, by which time I will be retired."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 284803,
      "EditedText": "My second question, which is related to that point, concerns the practicality of the data. Do you think that the collection and use of data from a wide range of sources have been successful? You are using a census that is already out of date, so are we consigning ourselves, through the formula for resource allocation, to always being slightly out of date?Using a formula is a fairly rigid way of doing things. I welcome what you said about flexibility, but I am not sure whether the evidence allows us to be flexible. Everyone welcomes the fact that the formula is evidence-based, but the formula is only as good as the evidence that is used to produce it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 284807,
      "EditedText": "I will ask Dorothy and Hugh to pull together some ideas on addressing health inequalities. After that, we will have run out of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 284809,
      "EditedText": "I have not seen them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 284811,
      "EditedText": "There is a whole raft of questions there. I will start with the census information. The available census information dates from 1991, but it is extraordinarily rich in material and it would have been unacceptable for the steering group not to have taken account of it. The census provides useful relative information. Poor areas of housing in 1991 are still poor areas of housing today; well-off areas of housing in 1991 are well-off today. There may have been differences in between, but the relativities still exist. That is why I maintain—given the time in which I was asked to perform the review—that not to use the census information would have been unacceptable. We supplemented the census information with annual updatable information on unemployment and sickness benefit and on many other indications of morbidity and life circumstances.On the responses from Lanarkshire and Glasgow, we have a mixture. Nobody's allocation will be cut as a result of the review; allocations will be subject to differential rates of growth, which will be corrected for real-time inflation. It is, frankly, not correct for individual health boards to tell us that their allocations will be cut in particular areas because of the formula.I went to some length earlier to explain that what is being allocated is a resource allocation of a sum of money. Priorities within the health board areas are for the health board managers to decide. Someone asked me why we still allocate to health boards; it is because health boards and trusts are responsible for meeting needs. We are not cutting the boards' allocations and we are not telling them how to spend their money. I have explained that we cut new ice with our use of the community data, and we have yet to see all the evidence that comes forward on that. I am not prepared to accept that the data are as unrepresentative as Greater Glasgow Health Board and Lanarkshire Health Board said in their submissions.A lack of appreciation exists about the difference between health service provision in remote or rural areas and in urban areas. I will not go into all the factors that are involved in the organisation, focus and delivery of those services. Everybody is stretched for money; in no way would I suggest that Glasgow or Lanarkshire—where my best friends live—would say that they had an oversupply of money with which to provide health services. We know that there are great demands in those areas and we are trying to recognise that. However, let us take the example of someone with an ulcer who lives on a croft in a remote or rural area—how does that person get their ulcer dressed? They do not live within three miles of a health service clinic. Somebody—a health visitor or community health worker—who lives 50 or 100 miles away can come and dress the ulcer. I respectfully suggest that Glasgow and Lanarkshire should be asked to think about that.There is no commonality of approach with the delivery of community services. Different health boards require different approaches. In rural and remote areas, the community workers do different work. For example, they do some of the general purposes work and accident and emergency work that is done by GPs and A and E departments in the cities. A big fairness factor is involved and I have majored on that factor in the report.I am sorry to go on at some length, but this is the first time that I have heard the health board comments and I think that we have to take them with a sense of balance. There will be much criticism and I am not steering away from that, but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 284812,
      "EditedText": "We are not ignorant of the geographic balance—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 284817,
      "EditedText": "We asked that question in chapter 15 of the report. For the benefit of members of the public, I should explain that we had considered and compiled a resource allocation mechanism that depended on population age and sex, life circumstances, and rurality and remoteness costs. We then asked the fundamental question, \"By doing that, are we meeting this need?\"When we considered the uptake of certain services, we found a disturbing indication that although, in a number of areas, the use of health services by deprived groups was greater than it was by the most affluent groups, it was not as great as it should be. That conclusion was reached by considering various kinds of operations and drug treatments that were indicated in the report.We realised that this was an important factor and we have been working on it flat out for three months. On the basis of that work—part statistical review, part literature review—we concluded that there is a problem. Although the steering group is not now formally constituted, we broke all the rules and met last week in Stirling to consider the evidence. There will have to be a further correction for inequalities of health or an allocation to meet such inequalities in deprived areas. Exactly how that will be done is still being worked on. Last week, we considered three options, the third of which was discarded, as it was not sound. The first option told us that, at the very least, there was a good case for establishing a further adjustment that would redistribute about £4 million to boards with relatively high levels of deprivation. People in Glasgow, Lanarkshire and the other areas might say that that is not enough, although the good people of Lothian might say that too much has been given already.The second option, which was extremely interesting, indicated that the redistribution of resources to areas with high levels of deprivation should be about £21 million. Following our meeting last week, the steering group felt that it must find more evidence to support that second option. However, in answer to your question, the evidence indicates that we must act, and we have an initial idea of the money that will be involved when we act. The money will have to be made available. As this is a major addendum to the report, it will have to be subject to consultation in the health service and beyond and in this committee. I suspect that this will be the first piece of on-going work stemming from the Arbuthnott review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 284818,
      "EditedText": "What about the third option?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 284823,
      "EditedText": "I cannot remember offhand. I think it was just more than £40 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 284824,
      "EditedText": "Both the amounts seem to be very small, Sir John. You mentioned the sum of £4 million. Are you talking about the whole of Scotland, or just the greater Glasgow area?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 284829,
      "EditedText": "Can I take it that you would encourage me to complete the work arising from chapter 15 and to submit that for consultation?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C284831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 284831,
      "EditedText": "You say that the report is of its time. My response is that Scotland has a formula that was devised 22 years ago. One could say that we should wait until this or that is better and something else is known, but I think that we have to get on. A feature of the steering group's work is that it provides a basis on which to go forward. One may say that we should act with caution in some areas, but we must proceed. Otherwise, we will be rooted in the past and the good work that is being done on developing community services will not be recognised—I think that it is recognised in the allocations that we are making, although there are different views on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 284836,
      "EditedText": "I will be kind and let you have one extra point. Is the committee happy to eat up five or 10 minutes of the time allocated to later speakers in asking these questions? Members seem to be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 284837,
      "EditedText": "My point is about weighting and fairness, which is in the title of the report. It is also about your passion for remoteness. Can you explain how the adjustments for general medical services were calculated for Dumfries and Galloway and for the Borders? The population density in the Borders is 24 people per hectare, whereas in Dumfries and Galloway it is 23 people per hectare, and the percentage of the population living in locations with fewer than 1,000 people is 30 per cent in the Borders and 34.9 per cent in Dumfries and Galloway. Although the remoteness seems the same, the Borders is given a weighting of 1.1 per cent above the national average for expenditure, whereas Dumfries and Galloway is given 20.4 per cent above it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 284843,
      "EditedText": "A couple of submissions made the point—Mary Scanlon also raised it with me—that the British Medical Association and the Highland Health Board said that they were examining the link between the way in which the formula is put together and the way in which local authority social work departments consider how they allocate resources. That relates to the idea of joined-up government. Is it right to consider one set of allocations in one way and another set in another way when the allocations may involve the same patient?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir John Arbuthnott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 284844,
      "EditedText": "You should look at the sales figures, convener. We produced 3,500 copies of the report and there have been two reprints. We have issued more than 3,000 copies of the main report, although I would not say that as many copies of the technical report have been issued."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 284851,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. Why then is that not included in the new formula?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 284857,
      "EditedText": "The points that you made about some of the issues arising from submissions and the consultation process are critical, as is the fact that you are already considering improving some of what you have done. That is the way forward for your report—we do not want to end up 22 years on without having reviewed it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 284864,
      "EditedText": "I will kick off with a fairly general question about the formula. It is obvious from submissions that have been made to us and from our concerns as members representing different parts of Scotland that some areas are perceived as having deprivation, some are island communities and some have differences between postcode sectors. Is it possible to devise a formula that fits all areas, or do you have to give different weightings—as SHARE did—to islands and so on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 284866,
      "EditedText": "May I ask you to defend your submission? I draw your attention to some points under the headings \"Community Health Services Data\", \"General Medical Services Data\" and \"Scottish Health Service Costs Data\". You say:\"The representativeness of Community Health Services data is uncertain and should be ascertained . . . The Continuous Morbidity Records . . . data raise doubts concerning their representativeness and should be investigated further . . . A check of the quality of the Scottish Health Service costs data is overdue and would do much to instil faith in their use.\"As so much rests on the quality of those data, I do not have confidence that you have confidence in the data that you were working with, if that makes sense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 284867,
      "EditedText": "Yes. My problem is that I am too close to those data—I work with them all the time for a range of purposes. They are the envy not only of the United Kingdom, but of most countries in the world. I have talked to colleagues in Finland, Canada, Italy and the Netherlands who are attempting to take forward programmes of resource allocation, and they wish to have the kind of information that we have.The Scottish health service costs are, to some extent, the cornerstone of the allocation—they are the basis that we use for saying how much the provision of those services costs. As such, they are probably the area of data that most urgently needs to be reviewed. However, they are all that we have. They come to the right totals—we know that, because they have to add up. In a way, they are an accountancy exercise—they are made to add up to the right totals.The data give much more detailed information than is available in England and Wales, where data could not follow the path of disaggregated services blocks—splitting the acute sector into circulatory disease, respiratory disease and so on—because the information that we have was not available. The data are not perfect and I would like them to be improved—not just for those uses, but for the other uses to which I would like to put them. However, as they stand, they are the best available evidence, and to base our decisions on the evidence that exists is better than to use no evidence at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 284871,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is the community health service data that cover four health boards, although they should be extended to include all health boards; CMR covers 11 per cent of the population. In addition, not all areas of activity in community health services are included in those data, which should be expanded. We are talking about a brief initial attempt, with the best available data, to allocate to community health services. In a year or two, at fairly marginal costs, better data could be collected, the formula could be revisited and developed and complaints could be dealt with.CMR—the general practitioner data—is a different question. As I say, I think that 11 per cent of the population are registered with practices that are included in the CMR data. My key concern about that is that the practices are self-selected. If the scheme were sufficiently expanded, that would give us a whole new insight into general practitioner behaviour. The problem with that is that the cost would be much greater, because we would be talking about frequent consultations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 284873,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 284874,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a point about community health data. It has been mentioned that that data is concentrated on four trusts; Dr Leyland explained that he did not think that that was robust enough. The data also concentrated on two professions but omitted key areas, such as community psychiatric care. Given the emphasis on community psychiatric care in the health service, that is a major omission and I wonder to what extent we can have confidence in the data set. Could Dr Leyland say something about that? Can that problem be resolved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 284879,
      "EditedText": "I do not believe that my concerns about the data are significant enough to invalidate the formula. I would, obviously, prefer to have perfect data, but they are not perfect. I have highlighted areas in which I believe it would be easiest to improve the data—those are, therefore, the areas in which my concerns about the data are greatest. However, what the report suggests is an improvement on the method of allocation through the existing SHARE formula. This is the best evidence that we have for allocating resources, although some doubts might be attached to the data. To a large extent, our methodology was tried and tested. It particularly follows the methodology developed in York and used for the allocation of resources in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. It has been exported to many parts of the world. We have used better data and have put a couple of twists in the system that we think have improved the allocation. You will understand that it is difficult for me to talk about these things impartially, as I was involved in the process, but improvements have been made, some of which were possible only because of the availability of data in Scotland.You made a point about the overall thrust of the data, Mr Henry. The fact that the movement of money about which health boards are concerned is less than 2 per cent of the total allocation shows that we have not moved far. If SHARE had been very wrong—if the movement had been 20 per cent, for example—the need for a review would have been apparent long ago. We have moved slightly—2 per cent—as we have adopted a more evidence-based approach. That is not to say that in 10 years' time there will not be a divergence or that there has not been a divergence in the past. The fact that we have come so close to the SHARE formula reflects the fact that our approach is worth while."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 284884,
      "EditedText": "Duncan raised a point about unemployment and income support data. You said that there was a heavy reliance on that data and that the data must be updated. The point is that changes in benefits can be made by Government for political or cost-cutting reasons. How can the data be updated in terms of making a judgment on whether people who have lost out are still in need? Is that not asking the impossible? Is that not asking for a subjective rather than a statistical judgment? I foresee that as a problem. Could you also expand on your concern that out-patient data are restricted to the first attendance. How could that be improved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 284887,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The idea is that, instead of using national average cost data, we would use the more efficient expenditure on prescriptions data. It would be straightforward to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 284888,
      "EditedText": "Would those data be available? I understand that the Accounts Commission had difficulty in obtaining some of its information, so I assume that the information would be difficult for you to find—at the moment, there is no appropriate method of recording it other than by picking up random samples of prescriptions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 284893,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it has been subject to peer review. I am not sure of the details of the process but I know that it did go out for peer review and that any future changes to allocations should be reviewed. It is my view that there should be a standing committee, along the lines of the committee in England and Wales.The experience of going through the review has alerted people to the vast amount of work that is involved. It takes a long time just to become familiar with the terminology and with what is available—for example, the data and information on what has happened in other countries—let alone looking at the developments that can be made because of the availability of data in Scotland.That means that it is not sufficient simply to hang on the coat tails of another resource allocation committee. We are talking about following a different path to that of any other country, in terms of resource allocation. Therefore, we need a Scottish resource allocation committee, which, as you suggest, convener, would need to be subject to peer review by experts not connected to the Scottish process, to ensure that, given our circumstances, we are following a sensible path—the best path—for equitable allocation of resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 284899,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy, that is way beyond the remit of our invited guest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Leyland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 284906,
      "EditedText": "It is important to remember that it is beyond the remit of the review to dictate to health boards how their money is spent. The proposed formulae give the ability to target resources and to move them, for example, from the acute sector to the primary care sector or to community health services, as is seen to be appropriate. Current allocations are based on empirical evidence. They are based on the expenditure weights, which are determined by previous use of services.If the desire is to encourage movement from acute services to primary care, for example, that can be done by a decision to allocate, say, an additional 1 per cent per year and switch from the acute sector allocation to the primary care allocation. That is just moving money from one block to another. That is now possible. It is not a matter of dictating to health boards that that is where they must spend their money, but it does give the facility for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 284907,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions for Dr Leyland?I think that you have exhausted us. On behalf of the committee, I thank you for coming, giving us your time and answering all our questions so fully, Dr Leyland, and for your contribution to the review itself, which has been a substantial piece of work for all those involved. We should have a break of a minute or two while we wait for our next victim."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 284909,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 284910,
      "EditedText": "We will hit the road again. I welcome Professor Watt, who has joined us again from the University of Glasgow. It is good to see you again, Professor Watt, after having met you at the informal briefing that we received on the Arbuthnott report. Can you give us a general introduction, as we already have your paper on the review? I will then open up the discussion to questions from the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 284924,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that Arbuthnott was charged to do that. To look at things in terms of whole systems is spot on. For instance, there is a twofold variation in emergency medical admission rates. The rates of admission are twice as high from deprived areas as from affluent areas within Glasgow. Who knows what that means—is that a good thing or a bad thing? How does that relate to other activities in primary care in terms of prevention and in terms of out-patient referrals? How does it relate in terms of what happens to people who are discharged from hospital?We tend not to have a systems approach to knowing how one thing impinges on another. Another example is the new out-of-hours scheme for primary care—who knows what effect that is having on accident and emergency services or on other services? They have been evaluated rather narrowly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 284915,
      "EditedText": "Professor Watt, my questions arise from your paper. You say that 1 per cent of the budget is to be reallocated and cite £59 million rather than £76 million. Could you clarify whether your calculations are right? Can this very small shift, which is less than what we thought it was this morning, make any difference?You are also concerned, on the basis of co-morbidity, that the Arbuthnott report seriously underestimates health deprivation. That is a profound point. Has Arbuthnott got to the heart of the matter that we thought that it was addressing?On budget increases, you emphasise primary care. Is enough of the budget going from secondary to primary care? You express disappointment at the rate and volume of transfer, which you seem to think is at the heart of addressing deprivation.Your final point, which seems to arise from many of your concerns, is that \"a strategic review is required concerning . . . how the health service can best use its resources to reduce inequalities\".That question came up when Professor Arbuthnott was here. How can we be guaranteed that giving health boards more money addresses the problems that this committee is concerned about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 284918,
      "EditedText": "I was not criticising Arbuthnott; he has done the best that he could do. The team included some of Scotland's best statisticians, who have a lead in multi-level modelling and have applied it in the report. There are some quibbles about some of the data sources on community health services and some people question whether that aspect of the report is correct, but in general I would not quibble with the methods. There is more scope for commenting on the remit of Arbuthnott, which was to look at issues of access. Had he been asked to do something else, Arbuthnott could not have done it because the data do not exist. That is why my first conclusion was that Arbuthnott had to be a first step. It takes us forward from SHARE and is better than SHARE. By applying those methods, we get models that better explain the current situation. The report can be only the first step because of the limitation of the data available to Arbuthnott, particularly on the community health and GMS side. One of the follow-ons must be to improve the quality of data, but that would simply be to address the issue of access. If the issue is taken forward to equitable access to effective care, we will be asking for all kinds of new data, which I believe will take longer to produce than Arbuthnott suggests in terms of a five-year timetable. The gaps that he identifies are not casual gaps that can be rectified simply by the stroke of a pen. To get the routine data and the research data out of deprived areas will take longer, because there are no people on the ground who are ready to pick up that challenge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 284920,
      "EditedText": "The deficit in coverage of CMR is not for want of trying to recruit practices in those areas. That is not the problem; it is a question of making it easier for practices to take part. I do not wish to prescribe what should happen, but something different from the current arrangement is probably needed. There might need to be a network within a network, whereby practices in the west of Scotland have a local centre, as well as one in Aberdeen. That might be a way of achieving local ownership. In addition, it is important that this is not simply a data collecting exercise, but something broader relating to the development of primary care. It has the facility for measuring more than one diagnosis, but to me, the heart of co-morbidity is the high prevalence of socially patterned psychological distress. At its extreme, that presents itself as a higher prevalence of depression, anxiety and conditions that one would diagnose and treat. Below that, there is a higher prevalence of people under pressure—which makes the whole system dysfunctional in terms of what can be achieved within short consultations—and a cumulative effect on the morale and motivation of health professionals. That is why there should be a systems approach to the problem, rather than trying to solve it at the level of individual practices. The other day, I was talking to a colleague who works in a health centre in Easterhouse. She told me that no GP at the centre has been there longer than 10 years. Most of them are 40 years old or younger. There are troops on the ground who have the potential to be very effective, given the support and resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 284921,
      "EditedText": "To return to the transfer of resources, and following on from Mary Scanlon's point, you describe as perverse the fact that the impact of Arbuthnott seems to run entirely counter to Government policy in terms of the transfer to primary care. We need to have a coherent policy, so that is obviously not a deliberate mismatch. What is the best way in which we can tie the two perspectives together? Would you want any standing committee that is set up constantly to review Arbuthnott to look at that? That ties into a bigger issue. At the end of your paper, you say: \"In the current financial climate, there is scepticism about whether Health Boards will be able to use the transferred funds to produce the desired increases and decreases in the budgets of specific care programmes.\"It comes back to the level of intervention that underpins the strategic approach that we are discussing. What should the role of Government be with regard to health boards, and what should the role of any committee looking at Arbuthnott be in terms of informing Government policy at an early stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 284923,
      "EditedText": "On resource transfer, you commented on the difficulty between secondary and primary care and on there being no mechanism to ensure that health boards make appropriate allocations. There are also difficulties regarding the social care of individuals who have been discharged early. Another factor is that individuals might well be bed blocking, but their care will fall to social work. I am concerned that Arbuthnott does not ensure that there is joined-up thinking on health policy. There is a high number of residential establishments for the elderly in the west of Scotland. I come from Ayrshire, which some years ago was nicknamed Costa Geriatrica by the press. Arbuthnott does not address that problem. You have indicated that insufficient funds are split between east and west. Did you look at the full picture, including social care?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 284926,
      "EditedText": "I will answer the second question first. This question came from Grampian GPs. They were asking why people in Glasgow do not take more of their non-cash-limited budget. I do not know the answer for sure, but I think that it is to do with the endemic situation of practices in deprived areas. They are a particular size and they are not well configured to take advantage of the additional funds that are available through the non- cash-limited system. That is one reason, and that is why I think that simply saying \"Here is the money\" is not the answer. One must take two steps back before one starts taking steps forward. On added costs, I will put it like this. What is the evidence that the health service can do something about differences in life expectancy? There is not a great deal of evidence, but there are clues. All the clues lead me to the conclusion—which is not outlandish—that we have the evidence from trials about effective treatments for lowering cholesterol and blood pressure. That is very important because those conditions affect a large proportion of the population. There are many effective treatments, but they make a difference to public health only when they are delivered to large groups of people. That requires high-quality, organised care. To use an analogy from Scottish football, we do not need a team of all stars; we need team players who will do simple things well, for large numbers of people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 284929,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to ask about chapter 15, on health inequalities. That chapter makes the point that more research is needed to establish a better understanding of the reasons for differences in the use of services by affluent and deprived groups. There were some startling figures. One of the examples was hip replacement—the difference between the number of hip replacements in affluent areas and those in deprived areas is considerable. People are not getting—for want of a better word—access to services. How can we pursue that line of inquiry to even up treatment?I used hip replacements as an example, but chapter 15 contains other examples such as data on varicose veins and coronary artery bypass graphs. Those graphs suggest that, although people in deprived areas are having more of those operations, they should be having three times more. How do we tackle that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 284933,
      "EditedText": "No, no, no. I am asking a legitimate question and Professor Watt wants—indeed looks desperate—to answer it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 284934,
      "EditedText": "He might also want to answer the question, \"What's your favourite football team?\" Your question is not within the remit of the committee's investigation, and Professor Watt is not in front of us to answer it. Your question touches on a much wider subject, when perhaps other committee members want to ask about the review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 284936,
      "EditedText": "It is not a question of whether Professor Watt objects; it is not within the remit of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 284941,
      "EditedText": "That is the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 284942,
      "EditedText": "If you want to question someone about whether the review's remit was too narrow, I suggest that you ask the minister tomorrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 284945,
      "EditedText": "As I said earlier this morning, the data are based on two professions—health visitors and district nurses—which, in general, tend to make up around 32 per cent of the community budget. That means that 68 per cent of the budget, which takes in community psychiatric care, physiotherapy, occupational therapy and so on, has been ignored. As the information has been based on four trusts, concentrating on two professions that account for far less than half the budget allocation in the community sector, can we say that the information is robust and should we base decisions on it? Can you say anything about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 284948,
      "EditedText": "I realise that you have not seen the BMA submission. As a member for the Highlands and Islands, I am delighted at the increase in funding for the area. However, I am concerned about your concern over the lack of transfer to primary care. I am further concerned that, in an area that stands to benefit, such as the Highlands, there will be a decrease of 20 to 30 GPs, as the BMA points out. Who will benefit in the Highlands? It is serious for access and for the GPs' role in health promotion and so on if the BMA thinks that there will be that decrease in a remote, rural area. I realise that I am throwing someone else's submission at you, but you can understand that, as a member for that area, I am seriously concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 284950,
      "EditedText": "The key thing, as you said earlier, Professor Watt, and which Richard Simpson also mentioned, is to start with the end product, health gain, and then work back, rather than do what Sir John has been asked to do, which is different. In fact, everyone wants to see equity and fairness and improved health. That is what we as a committee must keep sight of."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Watt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 284951,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a general point. It goes back to the question whether  the health service can make a difference. It may crystallise into whether the health service is passive or active in relation to inequality issues. While the health service got rid of gross access inequalities, because it is a certain sort of system, we inevitably get different patterns of usage of the system and different results. This is what we have seen over the past 20 years: if we take a passive approach, we sit back and watch inequalities widen. What are the implications of a health service that does not passively accept those social processes? What use is the health service as an instrument of social justice? How would the health service be different if it applied itself to that task?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 284953,
      "EditedText": "The final decision on that is taken by a different board, is it not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7543,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 284957,
      "EditedText": "Richard might be just about to say it, but perhaps you could raise that issue with the minister tomorrow, Mary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 284958,
      "EditedText": "I was just going to say that, and that the evidence of the dep cat—deprivation category—scoring system and the funding resulting from that has not done more than prevent massive deterioration in GMS. Would you agree?There have now been deprivation payments. That was the previous Government's attempt to recognise that there were different needs—it was the one thing that the previous Government did introduce which said that. There is no evidence that those moneys are used in a way that does more than prevent deterioration in the services. They have not succeeded in producing a quantum leap in the quality of services in those areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 284960,
      "EditedText": "I am also not being critical of Arbuthnott, because Arbuthnott was set a specific task, but I was wondering whether what you are talking about is—or was—the right task. If we are saying that the outcomes are modest, we must be clear in saying that the report will not make a radical change to Scotland's health."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 284966,
      "EditedText": "It is a very political question, and politicians put it when they want to save money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1687
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7543,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7543,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 284967,
      "EditedText": "The point made to you earlier, Dorothy, is that it is a political question and therefore one for you to ask of a politician. The politician will be before you tomorrow to answer the question. Graham has done his best to answer all our questions on his particular remit and the remit of the Arbuthnott review, and I would like to thank him very much for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0235238+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C240979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 562.0,
      "ContributionID": 240979,
      "EditedText": "No. To \"take account of\" means that it is up to the Executive whether it allows the full amount. Paragraph 16 as it stands clearly states that once the Parliament has voted on its budget, the Executive must allow for that in the budgeting process. David's change weakens the corporate body's stance and the control that it has over the budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.6988319+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C240981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 566.0,
      "ContributionID": 240981,
      "EditedText": "The suggestion is to use the words \"take account of\". What the paragraph says is that the spending assumptions are drawn up by the corporate body and voted on by the Parliament. The Executive is then bound by that vote to incorporate the Parliament's budget into its own. If we say that the Executive must make allowances for the parliamentary budget, it can deal with that as and how it likes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.6988319+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C240846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 240846,
      "EditedText": "There may be something in the budget that we did not think it worth while to spend money on and we might want to decrease that and use the money in other places. We could be decreasing one part of the budget and increasing several other parts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.1780645+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 240716,
      "EditedText": "Do we have any flexibility with Friday's deadline? We should not just sit back and allow this to affect our work. If I had had a chance to go through the documents in greater detail before the deadline, I might have been able to produce more detailed amendments to save the clerks time. We might now have to put undue pressure on the committee clerks to produce amendments, which is neither fair nor logistically possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 240717,
      "EditedText": "I want to check the details. The papers were sent out on Friday. Did most members receive them on Saturday morning? I understand that such documents are sent to home or weekend addresses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 240720,
      "EditedText": "So did I."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 240726,
      "EditedText": "Just a second, Andrew. I take John's point about the opening paragraph of the first document. I think that all the documents contain that, or a similar text. I assume that that will be the same for the documents that will go to the Audit Committee. The committee should make it perfectly clear that it thinks that, although the agreements might not be legally binding, they represent the way in which things will proceed. That is the whole point of an agreement. Any disagreement about that between the committee and the Executive would be a recognition that the agreements had failed. The agreements are supposed to set up an operating method that we both accept and that will last for years. Any difficulties about that will arise at the time. We might want to insert a section in the agreements to make that point, subsequent to any statement by the Executive. I believe that we could do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 240727,
      "EditedText": "If we are dealing generally with the status of the documents, I accept that the issue of legal rights and status might be a technical point. However, we should insert a provision in the documents saying that no amendment can be made to the documents without the agreement of the Finance Committee of the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 240739,
      "EditedText": "It can be changed by another motion from the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 240740,
      "EditedText": "If the committee wanted to amend certain points in the agreements, there might have to be a belt-and-braces job so that any amendments to the bill could be withdrawn if changes to agreements were subsequently agreed. Amendments to the bill could be lodged on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 240741,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to detract from our discussion of the time constraints for the committee. However, paragraph 15 in the first document contains detailed provision for change:\"If the Committee and the Scottish Ministers agree to the changes that are proposed, this agreement may be revised.\"The paragraph goes on to say that if agreement cannot be reached by the committee, the Parliamentary Bureau will have to arrange a debate. The agreements cannot be changed unilaterally—a mechanism exists. Although I agree that we are being put under considerable time constraints, we can come back to the agreements at any point if we feel that to be appropriate. However, we would not want to amend the documents too often."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 240744,
      "EditedText": "Yes. My understanding of the earlier discussion is that we would want to insert a sentence that said that, although we accepted that the agreements were not legally binding, they detailed how things would operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 240745,
      "EditedText": "There should be a statement about the obligation to enforce the agreements. What we have mentions neither the status nor the enforceability of the documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 240748,
      "EditedText": "We should find a form of words."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 240750,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Richard about flexibility. The fact that the agreement does not tie procedures down too tightly is probably a good thing, at least initially. There should be a review of how the procedures have worked after the first full year.In paragraph 3.1, the matter of how we consult is left to us. Do members think that we should insert wording to the effect that the Finance Committee will consult subject committees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 240761,
      "EditedText": "It would be desirable to make it explicit. At that early stage I am not fussed about information being at level 1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 240763,
      "EditedText": "We should also specify that all detailed information should be provided timeously, as that is not happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 240765,
      "EditedText": "Can we remove \"reasonable\", as that is a value judgment? Who defines what is a reasonable request?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 240771,
      "EditedText": "We do not have the answer to that, but we can ask."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 240772,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 6 talks about requests for information. We need to set up a protocol such as there is elsewhere. Is there a standing order that defines the time by which information must be received by a committee? If we do not sort that out quickly, it will be a major issue of contention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 240773,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that that is covered by the standing orders. Sarah goes to bed every night with the standing orders, so she will tell us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 240781,
      "EditedText": "Does 14 days seem reasonable? Is that what you suggest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 240784,
      "EditedText": "I am slightly confused by the statement at the bottom of page 2, that\"it is possible that on occasion a spending review at the UK level will be taking place at the same time.\"The result of a spending review would not be announced until Westminster returned, in late October or November. I suppose that the statement refers to an exceptional circumstance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 240790,
      "EditedText": "If spending reviews are announced in November, our budget might be affected, although we already have it. Our detailed budget would be affected by anything that the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced in late October or November. There is a problem of timing, but I do not know what we could do about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 240794,
      "EditedText": "The point is that if spending reviews are in late November, by which time we will have virtually agreed a budget, they might have an impact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 240797,
      "EditedText": "It might happen, but it is not what is being referred to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 240803,
      "EditedText": "The paragraph deals only with the relationship between the committee and the ministers.Are there any comments on paragraph 10?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 240807,
      "EditedText": "The comprehensive spending review said that the health service should make 2.5 per cent year-on-year efficiency savings without saying how that should be achieved. John makes the point that there is no reason to include this sentence. An amendment that did not contain a well thought out costing would fall because of its lack of merit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 240808,
      "EditedText": "The previous sentence states:\"No amendment may seek to increase the total spend proposed.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 240812,
      "EditedText": "The final sentence of paragraph 10 reads: \"Therefore, amendments proposing an increase in one area must recommend a decrease elsewhere.\"An efficiency saving could effectively be worded as a decrease. How else could it be described? Ultimately, the money would have to be found in the total spend. It means the same thing, but I see nothing wrong with the way in which it is worded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 240815,
      "EditedText": "That sentence is tautological and gratuitous, so let us just take it out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 240821,
      "EditedText": "It is an Executive decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 240823,
      "EditedText": "No. I want to argue against its being deleted. That sentence makes it specific that there must be a balance. We cannot simply say that we will spend more and save the money in the budget; we must make a specific amendment. The word \"Therefore\" links that in. I accept John Swinney's point that the word \"decrease\" has to be broad enough to allow us a range of options, but it should not be taken out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 240824,
      "EditedText": "I hear what Richard says but, if the Finance Committee adopts that point of view, the committee cannot endorse any budget proposed by the Government that is predicated, as the comprehensive spending review was, on making efficiency savings of X per cent. For example, when the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning says that his department can cope with a real-terms decrease in the enterprise budget because there will be efficiency savings, we will have to tell him that such a tool is no longer available and that money must be taken away from one department and given to another if the books are to be balanced. That would be the consequence of such a restrictive line.There is no dispute about the fact that the bottom line has to be the same, but we are entitled to advance the debate about how the assumptions could be slightly different, or perhaps more aggressive, on value for money. We could push the Executive to say that it will make value-for-money savings of not 1 per cent but 2 per cent, for example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 240825,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that anything in this document would restrict us from doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 240826,
      "EditedText": "That line in paragraph 10 says that\"amendments proposing an increase in one area must recommend a decrease elsewhere.\"That means that if I wanted to move £50 million from one budget to another, I would have to say which budget it is coming from and which budget it is going to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 240827,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that you would like the freedom to propose an increase without saying where it would come from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 240830,
      "EditedText": "There should be options for balanced savings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 240832,
      "EditedText": "But not necessarily where it comes from."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 240834,
      "EditedText": "That is a possibility, Andrew. We shall come back to that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 240840,
      "EditedText": "We could add \"within the total\", if that would help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 240849,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on something that Ken Macintosh said. He was leading into something that I thought we had agreed—that we must sort out a protocol between our committee and other committees. This document concerns the relationship between us and the minister. How we deal with other committees is for us to decide and not for the minister to tell us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 240850,
      "EditedText": "That is right. We will have bilateral agreements with other committees.Let us move now to stage 3, paragraph 12."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 240851,
      "EditedText": "You have missed out paragraph 11, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 240852,
      "EditedText": "Sorry. I jumped ahead, but that was not deliberate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 240854,
      "EditedText": "You may recall that this matter came up a couple of weeks ago in another context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 240855,
      "EditedText": "Does it need to be repeated here?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 240857,
      "EditedText": "I am not fussy about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 240859,
      "EditedText": "I may be arguing from a point of ignorance but it strikes me that the only reason for that paragraph to be here would be if it is not in existing legislation. If it is already in legislation, there would be no point in including it here, and that worries me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 240860,
      "EditedText": "I am not sufficiently conversant with the Scotland Act 1998 to be precise about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 240862,
      "EditedText": "Did you say \"implicit\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 240864,
      "EditedText": "Why should we endorse something that, in principle, we do not agree with?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 240865,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer the question of whether it is implicit or explicit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 240872,
      "EditedText": "Sarah Davidson is of the view that legal advice was taken in the earlier case that was mentioned. That should be clarified before we delete the sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 240881,
      "EditedText": "There needs to be better co-ordination."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 240883,
      "EditedText": "Is the last sentence of that paragraph—beginning with the words \"None-the-less\"—the precursor to flagging up the fact that we may have to consider moving our own formal procedures if we are to start new accountancy procedures? If that is the case, are we as a committee being asked to agree that we will be party to that process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240887",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 240887,
      "EditedText": "The amendments will go to the Parliament for agreement then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240894",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 240894,
      "EditedText": "That impacts on paragraph 11 as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240897",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 240897,
      "EditedText": "That is one of the points that I was going to raise. The other one is on the Parliament's budget. Is it purely a matter for the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, or do we have a say?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240902",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 240902,
      "EditedText": "It is a bit of a mess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240904",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "ID": 2142,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 240904,
      "EditedText": "There is no time limit by which a decision must be made. The implication is that if there is to be an increase, even within a year, the Parliament can make the decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240905",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
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      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 240905,
      "EditedText": "Working assumptions have not been terribly accurate so far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240911",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 240911,
      "EditedText": "It is all happening at the same stage of the bill. My point is that we—or I—may have missed something in the bill. Perhaps it would make sense to have a separate process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 240913,
      "EditedText": "That would change the FIAG proposals and everything, which has big implications. We need some advice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 240914,
      "EditedText": "Shall we ask the SPCB to provide such advice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 240915,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I think that it is important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 240918,
      "EditedText": "Can we do a belt-and-braces amendment to the bill, for which the deadline is Friday, which would insert something to say that the Parliament's budget should be decided in advance of the Executive's plans? Is that doable, as this is the last chance that we will have to do it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 240919,
      "EditedText": "It is doable on an individual basis. Are you saying that you want it to be the view of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 240923,
      "EditedText": "It is not a proposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 240926,
      "EditedText": "We need a report on where we have been and where we think we can get to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 240931,
      "EditedText": "Convener, you have already raised the issues of staffing—the fact that committees are sharing clerks—and of visits outside Edinburgh. We should have some indication as soon as possible of what the corporate body is thinking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 240932,
      "EditedText": "I have suggested that we ask for a report, but we could also bring the corporate body before us to give evidence so that we can ask about its plans. Should we go that stage further? We could ask them to present a paper and then quiz them on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 240934,
      "EditedText": "It would also be interesting if the corporate body could give us some indication of how it envisages outlay over the next couple of years, given that we will be moving to a new building. Will it take that in its stride? The move has big implications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 240935,
      "EditedText": "I take Andrew's point that the timetabling of this process is important. We need to agree with the corporate body that it will produce its budget proposals and submit them to us, so that we can scrutinise them on the Parliament's behalf. That needs to be timetabled; it does not need to go into this document, which deals with where that would fit into the budgeting process. We need to change the wording. If we have an agreement with the corporate body that it will produce its proposals, which we will discuss, so that it can produce its budget early on, that can be submitted and, as Andrew says, taken out of the lump sum before we start to discuss the detailed budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 240936,
      "EditedText": "That would be sensible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 240940,
      "EditedText": "Linking that into stages 1 and 2 sets a specific time scale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 240942,
      "EditedText": "Is that change acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 240943,
      "EditedText": "The term \"working assumptions\" is vague, but it gives flexibility. If we say that there must be specific proposals at that stage, we may be tied to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 240945,
      "EditedText": "Does that answer the point that you were making about the need for an amendment, Andrew?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240948",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 240948,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. I am a bit confused about it just now, but we must ensure, as an amendment to the bill, that the SPCB is required to have gone through the process via the Parliament before the Executive starts to put together its budget, so that there are no implications for the Executive's budget. Do you see what I mean?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 240956,
      "EditedText": "Richard touches on an important procedural point about the contents of this document. This document is about the relationship between the Parliament, on whose behalf the Finance Committee acts, and the Scottish ministers.The Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body is quite distinct from us. We do not have much of a role in relation to the corporate body, other than to ask it to explain itself on different issues relating to finance. It has a different relationship with the Parliament. The solution is probably to take paragraph 16 out of the document, because it is in the wrong place. It should be in the document that guides the relationship between the Finance Committee and the ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 240960,
      "EditedText": "There is a bigger issue than just the timing. What Richard Simpson said latterly made me think that the paragraph is in the wrong place. The corporate body's relationship with the Parliament is important, as is when it sets its plans, how they are acted on and what note the Executive takes of that. I am not sure what our locus is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 240961,
      "EditedText": "That is the point that was raised by the clerk. It is crucial that we are able to bring the corporate body before the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 550.0,
      "ContributionID": 240973,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to pick up on the point from which Andrew has backed off slightly because of what is going on. The fact is that the Executive cannot produce a general expenditure budget if it does not know what will happen to the Parliament's block. The second sentence of paragraph 16 says that expenditure proposals should include working assumptions. Should not it simply say that the expenditure proposals must account for the parliamentary budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 552.0,
      "ContributionID": 240974,
      "EditedText": "Must take account of."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 556.0,
      "ContributionID": 240976,
      "EditedText": "Those are two quite different things. \"Must account for\" is not the same as \"must take account of\". I think the latter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 564.0,
      "ContributionID": 240980,
      "EditedText": "We cannot, as a committee, weaken the stance of the corporate body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 568.0,
      "ContributionID": 240982,
      "EditedText": "We are returning to Andrew's point that the Executive's spending plans are net of the parliamentary budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 574.0,
      "ContributionID": 240985,
      "EditedText": "To clarify the point that we are getting at, we could delete the first sentence of paragraph 16. The second sentence can stay, with David's amendment, because it simply points out the fact that the Parliament's budget is in there. Then we could delete everything following \"Scottish Ministers\" at the end of the third sentence. The process outlined in the first three sentences will have happened if the amendment clarifies the fact that the budget process for the SPCB is in advance of that for the Executive. The remainder of the paragraph is irrelevant because the parliamentary budget should be debated separately anyway. That is why I have asked for the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill to be amended as well. It is slightly messy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 240986,
      "EditedText": "The word \"assumptions\" is also in the third sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 240987,
      "EditedText": "I would amend that, too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 240988,
      "EditedText": "We are going deeper and deeper into this and not getting very far forward at all. Perhaps we should delay a decision until we see which amendment we can propose and whether that will meet what we are trying to do. We are going round and round, so I propose that we leave the discussion there until we have taken advice on what we can do on the amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 240991,
      "EditedText": "A final question, which has nothing to do with the detail: must this be completed by Friday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ContributionID": 240994,
      "EditedText": "I have a comment on this point. I have been trying to scan the bill and I am not sure that an amendment is needed. Part 1, section 1(1)(a) and (b) of the bill mentions the Scottish Administration and each body or office holder. Presumably that covers everyone, including the corporate body. It does not say anything about timing, merely that everything will be in the budget bill. I am just trying to anticipate our saying on Friday morning that we do not need an amendment. If people were not happy about that, there might be problems. Nothing in the bill mentions timetabling. Everything is part of one process and is presumably covered under subparagraph (a) or (b). The corporate body must be covered by that, too. Will we suggest a new subparagraph (c), which has a specific timetable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 602.0,
      "ContributionID": 240999,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 3?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 604.0,
      "ContributionID": 241000,
      "EditedText": "I think that I am right in saying that the same issue applies to Audit Scotland and to judges' salaries. If it is not formally for the Executive to propose Audit Scotland's budget and likewise judges' salaries, the principle that we have just discussed applies, although it is less of an issue. Who controls judges' salaries?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 606.0,
      "ContributionID": 241001,
      "EditedText": "The Senior Salaries Review Body, I would think."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 608.0,
      "ContributionID": 241002,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 4?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ContributionID": 241003,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 5?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 612.0,
      "ContributionID": 241004,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of points, which basically are requests for more information. If you remember, we received the level 1 data 40 minutes in advance of the budget—which is better than what happens with the UK budget. There is nothing to stop us amending the paragraph by adding a couple of other bits of information to the list to say what we are after. For example, the figures that we received last time were well presented, because there was a comparison between previous plans and the new plans. That was good, but to ensure that that happens every time, could we have it in the written understanding? Also, the figures were presented as costs in real terms. Once again, can that be included in the written understanding so that it happens every time?Finally—and this is a suggestion—it would speed up debate if the Executive included a ready-reckoner table that showed annual percentage changes year on year, and from previous plans. If it did our sums for us, it would not take us three hours to examine the expenditure plans, by which time the debate would be over. I see no reason why the Executive would be against that.It would be helpful if those points were set out in the written understanding to ensure that those simple things were done—it would not be more than 20 minutes' work with a spreadsheet. We tried to do it ourselves, but 40 minutes was not long enough. I would like to ensure that the numbers that we get are deflated and that there are comparisons year on year and with previous plans."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 649.0,
      "ContributionID": 241022,
      "EditedText": "It would be possible to amalgamate the two sentences."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 653.0,
      "ContributionID": 241024,
      "EditedText": "We will also take out the words:\"But the Scottish Ministers expect that\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 655.0,
      "ContributionID": 241025,
      "EditedText": "In the middle of the paragraph, it says:\"The drafts will be sent to the Committee before a Budget Bill is presented.\"Could we have a time scale for that?I would also ask for an amendment to ensure that the format comes not with blank cells, but with the existing expenditure plans. The format changed this time and we did not see it until later. The difference next time is that we will see the new format if it changes, but I would like to ensure that we see the current spending plans before the budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 659.0,
      "ContributionID": 241027,
      "EditedText": "The format includes not just what the document will look like, but, for guidance, the current spending plans on the basis of that format, so that if the format changes, we can see—in advance of the budget—what the previous position was."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 663.0,
      "ContributionID": 241029,
      "EditedText": "The last sentence reads:\"If the Scottish Ministers decide not to follow all the recommendations on format proposed by the Finance Committee, they will inform the Committee in writing.\"Does that prejudice our ability to invite the minister to appear before the committee? Could the minister say that, as the agreement says that he has to inform us in writing, there is no need for him to appear?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 667.0,
      "ContributionID": 241031,
      "EditedText": "Might this be an appropriate moment to raise again the suggestion that was made at the previous meeting, that you should write to the Scottish Executive with respect to the Scotland Office issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 671.0,
      "ContributionID": 241033,
      "EditedText": "The matter is in hand.Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 681.0,
      "ContributionID": 241038,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 2?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 683.0,
      "ContributionID": 241039,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 3?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 691.0,
      "ContributionID": 241043,
      "EditedText": "The Executive can do what it likes, subject to that limitation. We can make a retrospective comment, but the decision will have been made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 699.0,
      "ContributionID": 241047,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a feel for it. I do not have enough experience to know whether it is reasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 705.0,
      "ContributionID": 241050,
      "EditedText": "Could the wording be changed from:\"Parliament should be informed of transfers on a regular basis\"to \"Parliament should be informed in advance of proposed transfers\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 709.0,
      "ContributionID": 241052,
      "EditedText": "Those are fundamental points. We might want to discuss them with the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 711.0,
      "ContributionID": 241053,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that we will be trading information at level 1 and level 2. There is the possibility for a 10 per cent movement in the enterprise budget, so I would expect the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee to consider levels 3 and 4 of the budget. It would be unimaginable for this committee to do that for all budgets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 715.0,
      "ContributionID": 241055,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about sections, which are a level below departments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 719.0,
      "ContributionID": 241057,
      "EditedText": "Because the paragraph says:\"A ‘budget section' refers to the level below the department as a whole.\"If a department has ministerial responsibilities, I cannot think of how, below level 1, 15 per cent will be more than £50 million. The figure of 15 per cent is important: the resultant sum will be big, but not huge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 725.0,
      "ContributionID": 241060,
      "EditedText": "We will make that point.Let us turn to paragraph 4. We can play about with the figures. Andrew said that he did not think that 15 per cent of a budget section would be more than £50 million, but I have no feel for that. Presumably, the figures will be subject to review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 729.0,
      "ContributionID": 241062,
      "EditedText": "We could say, \"£50 million, at 1999 values\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 733.0,
      "ContributionID": 241064,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 6 suggests that a review of the budget procedure be carried out in 2002."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 745.0,
      "ContributionID": 241070,
      "EditedText": "Richard is correct: the bill will have to be amended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 749.0,
      "ContributionID": 241072,
      "EditedText": "It would be better as a percentage—£50 million must be a percentage of a budget currently, so the percentage should be whatever that is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 757.0,
      "ContributionID": 241076,
      "EditedText": "It would have to be done in someone's name."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 764.0,
      "ContributionID": 241079,
      "EditedText": "We need some clarification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 775.0,
      "ContributionID": 241084,
      "EditedText": "Members have the briefing note prepared by Sarah and her colleagues on the budget process, which leads us to consider our relationship with other committees in the budget process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 785.0,
      "ContributionID": 241089,
      "EditedText": "It is tight. We do not have a full year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 789.0,
      "ContributionID": 241091,
      "EditedText": "But in terms of the consultation process with the other committees, would you accept that we do not have the opportunity or time to do that this year and that we should await the first full year to institute the process? I think that that is the commonsense approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 795.0,
      "ContributionID": 241094,
      "EditedText": "What is the procedure for this? After we have come to an agreement on this matter, do you inform the conveners of the other subject committees of what we propose to them? I am talking in terms of there not being a consultation exercise this year, although we cannot dictate things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 797.0,
      "ContributionID": 241095,
      "EditedText": "I think that I would have to do that formally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 799.0,
      "ContributionID": 241096,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that a decision of this committee be reported to other subject committees in the context of considering how this year's and next year's budgets could best be approached, and stating how this committee thought that it would probably be unfeasible to include consultation fully this year. If any individual subject committee wishes to have a session on the budget, they are entirely within their locus to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 807.0,
      "ContributionID": 241100,
      "EditedText": "Was Stephen Boyle from the Royal Bank of Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 809.0,
      "ContributionID": 241101,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It might be worth while to ask him to do the same number-crunching that he did before."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2142,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 813.0,
      "ContributionID": 241103,
      "EditedText": "Is that in general, Sarah, or does it specifically concern 16 November?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 815.0,
      "ContributionID": 241104,
      "EditedText": "That specific date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 819.0,
      "ContributionID": 241106,
      "EditedText": "We have some flexibility, but I expect that, having heard from an external expert, members will probably want to take evidence from the minister and will probably want a week between the two sessions. There is always the possibility of arranging a meeting of this committee at a time outwith our normal slot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 823.0,
      "ContributionID": 241108,
      "EditedText": "As I understand, the Parliamentary Bureau has yet to determine a date on which a plenary debate will happen, but the indications that I have had are that it will be in the first week of December. That is by no means set in stone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 825.0,
      "ContributionID": 241109,
      "EditedText": "We will await word from Sarah on whether Brian Ashcroft can come on the 16th. Are we also agreeing to have Stephen Boyle on the same day, if he is available?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 841.0,
      "ContributionID": 241117,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Andrew that it is far too restrictive for any committee to think only within its own budget. However, the duty should be on the committees at least to think about where the money is coming from—that is not up to us. Members should be able to express a view on other budgets. Subject committees should be required to recommend where any extra money that they want should come from; it does not have to come from within their own budgets. I do not know how much detail they are expected to deliver. That might be too much for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 845.0,
      "ContributionID": 241119,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Richard. Subject committees cannot be expected to look at the bigger picture and say that they will take money from another area to strengthen their own budgets. It will turn into a big wish list of extra money needed for every single area. Their remit should be clearly defined in terms of prioritisation within the budgets that they are allocated, although they may wish to prioritise specific areas where extra funds have to be found outwith their own budgets. Ultimately, the overall examination of the spending balance among all the different departments must be debated in this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 852.0,
      "ContributionID": 241122,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that a committee would want to spend a day with us. Fairly specific guidance should be given to each committee, or they will all work in different ways. It may be that it should be clearly stated in the guidance that if the committee is going to make significant changes to a certain percentage or sum within the budget, then it will automatically be asked to come and explain that. That may make committees more responsible about what they do. They must look for savings too.I do not share David's view about reporters. I think that that is a good idea. It will obviously be fairly subjective. A reporter goes into a committee and comes back to report to us. That is second-hand, but I think that it is valuable. The timetable—from 20 March to 30 June—means that it is important that we send out guidance to committees soon after Christmas. Some committees are already overloaded with work and bills. They must be given advance warning so that they can allow time for this. If they can produce their recommendations as soon as possible after Easter, we can get to grips with what they are proposing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 860.0,
      "ContributionID": 241126,
      "EditedText": "Have you had any discussions with other conveners about their expectations? Has any serious consideration been given to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 862.0,
      "ContributionID": 241127,
      "EditedText": "The conveners committee is still developing and has not been discussing anything as specific as that. It has been talking about staffing matters and resourcing. We should try to get the conveners together to discuss the issue. We will not be making decisions about it today, but we may want to put some proposals to conveners that they could put to their committees before we finalise matters. We do not want to issue a diktat about how they will operate; we want to be as inclusive as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 870.0,
      "ContributionID": 241131,
      "EditedText": "We want a more formal system of reporting back to this committee about what other committees are saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C241132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 872.0,
      "ContributionID": 241132,
      "EditedText": "If we are reporting back from committees, especially on prioritisation and bids for extra finance, we need some independent assessment to give us some background to the issue. We do not have that expertise in this committee. Various committees have their own priorities when it comes to the allocation of funds. If we are faced with decisions about that, we may need independent information to question the validity of the various claims. That is something that we must be aware of."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 876.0,
      "ContributionID": 241134,
      "EditedText": "We have enough to put together a paper for conveners and also perhaps to adopt a pro forma for approaching an inquiry into budget proposals. It might also be fruitful to speak to either Professor Ashcroft or Stephen Boyle about how the Finance Committee is to exercise judgment when weighing up seemingly conflicting bids for money. That is something on which they would be well placed to advise us, and we might want to speak to them in the next couple of weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 240703,
      "EditedText": "We have a full and important agenda, which has been circulated. All members have received copies of the written agreements that the Scottish Executive submitted as a result of our discussions with the Minister for Finance earlier this year. As we want to consider those documents, I hope that everyone has had an opportunity to go through them.I have to say that the papers were not received quite as timeously as we would have liked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 240704,
      "EditedText": "Hear, hear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 240709,
      "EditedText": "That point has been noted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 240713,
      "EditedText": "We are not discussing amendments to the bill as such today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 240719,
      "EditedText": "I got them on Saturday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 240721,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise an issue that follows on from the points made by Andrew Wilson, Keith Raffan and David Davidson, about the agenda. What is the status of the documents? Through no fault of our clerks, we are being asked to consider within a short time scale documents that are effectively an alternative to sections in the bill. We are being asked to say, \"Let's not have a detailed section in the bill about the budgeting process; let's have written understandings between the committee and the Executive instead.\" The first paragraph of the document entitled \"The Budgeting Process—Agreement of Principles and Procedures\" reads:\"This document sets out an understanding between the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Ministers . . . It is not intended to create any legal rights or obligations on either the Scottish Ministers or the Scottish Parliament.\"If I am being asked to sit here and sign up to documents that are—unless I have the wrong end of the stick—effectively alternatives to sections in the bill and to do so before Friday, which is the deadline for submitting amendments, I am opposed to that on two counts. First, we have only a few days to decide whether the agreements are adequate alternatives to sections in the bill; and secondly, our clerks have been put to a great deal of trouble to get these not very long documents out of the Scottish Executive. If that indicates the Executive's approach to dialogue, I have enormous concerns about the worth of the documents; such concerns tempt me to lodge amendments to the bill to highlight the Executive's approach and to protect the position of the Parliament. It does not give me much confidence in the documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 240722,
      "EditedText": "I will take that as a general statement. We still need to go through the documents. The committee will propose any amendments that need to be made to them. If the committee decides not to proceed with any amendments to the agreements, individual members have the right to propose those amendments for the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 240723,
      "EditedText": "My point is that we have to decide today whether the documents are absolutely satisfactory in protecting the rights of the Parliament, which is the committee's primary duty, or whether to lodge amendments to the bill to structure the budgeting process. I am concerned that we have only this morning's meeting in which to do that. If we do not have comfort at the end of the meeting, we have no alternative but to take the second option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 240729,
      "EditedText": "I have not seen such a provision mentioned in the documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 240731,
      "EditedText": "A written understanding requires agreement on both sides. If we propose amendments to the documents today, we might not—given the Executive's record so far—receive a response from it until after Friday, by which time the deadline for lodging amendments to the bill will have passed. How can the committee function in such a way? The timing is inadequate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 240732,
      "EditedText": "The timing is not ideal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 240733,
      "EditedText": "It is more than not ideal—it is inadequate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 240735,
      "EditedText": "Are we? Is there nothing that we can do to extend it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 240738,
      "EditedText": "Can that date be changed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 240743,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean the sentence about legal rights and obligations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 240746,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry—I keep coming back to this point. Perhaps we are splitting hairs. If the Minister for Finance starts to act outside the agreements, he can be called in front of the committee, and if we do not like what he is doing, we can call him in front of the Parliament. The phrase about legal rights and obligations simply means that no one outside Parliament can take legal action over the agreements. They are simply agreements between the committee and the ministers about how we will operate. If we do not accept that and if the agreements do not work, we have recourse. I am sure that the Parliament will back us if a minister starts acting outside the agreements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 240749,
      "EditedText": "We should find a form of words to convey that view.Are there any comments on paragraph 2? Paragraph 3? Paragraph 3.1?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 240751,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point, to which we will return when we discuss the budgeting process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 240754,
      "EditedText": "It is a reinforcement of what will happen in future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 240755,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments on paragraph 3.2? Paragraph 3.3? Paragraph 4? Paragraph 5?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 240757,
      "EditedText": "We can talk about the level that the committee wants and insert appropriate wording."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 240768,
      "EditedText": "Should we leave out \"all reasonable\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 240769,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 240770,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 6 refers to \"general expenditure\". Will receipts—I know that there are not many—be included at that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 240775,
      "EditedText": "If there is a standing order, we should mirror it in the document, or we should produce a time scale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 240778,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I firm up what I said: we ought to suggest something, which will have to be agreed by the other side."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240783",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 240783,
      "EditedText": "That seems reasonable to me.We will move on to stage 2, in paragraph 7."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240785",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 240785,
      "EditedText": "Over the past 10 years, there has not been a predictable pattern of spending reviews in the UK. We have moved between spending announcements in November, combined budgets in March, and a comprehensive spending review as a one-off—although that will become the norm next year. Paragraph 7 reflects that unpredictability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240786",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 240786,
      "EditedText": "Is there scope to get the ministers to report on their consultations at UK level? It would be worth sticking something in to say that notice would be given. There is considerable notice for any spending review—for example, we would know now when the announcements for next year would be, so I do not think that this will be a major problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240791",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
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      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 240791,
      "EditedText": "That relates to your point that Westminster is in recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240792",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 240792,
      "EditedText": "Exactly."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240796",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 240796,
      "EditedText": "If that happens, it happens."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240801",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 240801,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to paragraph 8.Are there any comments on paragraph 9?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240804",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 240804,
      "EditedText": "Implications arise from the last sentence, which seems intuitively sensible. All Governments make spending announcements on the basis of suggested \"efficiency savings\" or recycled expenditure and so on. Given that we do not have the financial detail that the Executive has, how much does that tie the Parliament in a way in which the Executive is not tied?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240806",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 240806,
      "EditedText": "Surely, if we have to stick within the zero sum game, we will have to dig to the level of detail at which we can demonstrate how the efficiency savings that we recommend are to be achieved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 240809,
      "EditedText": "That covers it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 240811,
      "EditedText": "In other words, the last sentence of that paragraph is tautologous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 240814,
      "EditedText": "I read that sentence as a reminder, particularly to other committees, and that is something that we will come to at a later stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 240816,
      "EditedText": "Do members think that we should take it out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 240818,
      "EditedText": "We have a member of the Audit Committee with us this morning who wants to voice his opinion on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 240822,
      "EditedText": "The wording does not depart from what I understood the role of the committee to be.Do members agree that the last sentence of paragraph 10 should be deleted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 240828,
      "EditedText": "I am talking about how that would be realised. The mechanism might be to propose an allocation of £50 million to a particular area that would be realised by efficiency savings elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 240829,
      "EditedText": "That is too specific, quite frankly, because it could let the Executive off the hook. We could recommend an increase in one area and the Executive could say that it is absolutely not possible. The document's aim is to instil in us a sense of responsibility in proposing amendments that recommend an increase. What it should say is that we should indicate possible options where a decrease could take place. The sentence that says that amendments must recommend a specific decrease elsewhere is too tightly worded. It would be fairer to indicate a range of options so that the Executive would not be let off the hook if it did not like the specific option that we recommended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 240833,
      "EditedText": "Why do not we simply say \"full costings\" instead of \"a decrease\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 240835,
      "EditedText": "I think that that line is there for greater clarity, and I do not think that any of the changes that we are discussing would increase clarity. We are actually muddying the waters. The wording is quite specific. We can say that the efficiency savings in a budget will be changed from 1 per cent to 2 per cent. That is a specific decrease and I do not think that there is a problem with that. Any person or committee making an amendment has a duty to address such matters. Finding money for budgets involves making difficult decisions in other areas and this paragraph forces all committees to address such decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 240836,
      "EditedText": "May I move a specific amendment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 240843,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That widens the scope."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 240844,
      "EditedText": "Why say \"any change in one area\"? Why not say \"any increase in one area\"? That would be better and more specific. A change is obviously an increase, so let us use the English language. A change could be an increase or a decrease, so let us say \" an increase\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240845",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 240845,
      "EditedText": "Let us say \"a change\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 240847,
      "EditedText": "Exactly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 240856,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to envisage a position in which a decision taken by the Parliament would not be regarded by the Executive as binding even if, legally, that was the position. It would lead to difficulties and would probably be followed by a no-confidence vote if the situation ever arose. Regardless of whether or not it is necessary to include it here, it is probably de jure the position. Are you suggesting that we should delete it, Andrew?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240867",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 240867,
      "EditedText": "If it is in the Scotland Act 1998, it is explicit, in which case this is simply a restatement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 240868,
      "EditedText": "So there is no reason for it to be here. If it is not explicit in the Scotland Act 1998, why are we as a committee and as a Parliament agreeing to it in this document? I propose that we remove it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 240870,
      "EditedText": "I recognise Andrew's point. Either it is explicit in the Scotland Act 1998, in which case we do not need it here, or it is implicit and we do not want to encourage it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 240871,
      "EditedText": "That is why we should remove it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 240875,
      "EditedText": "And then delete it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 240878,
      "EditedText": "No. We would not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 240880,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 240882,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments on paragraph 13?Moving on to the section on longer-term planning, are there any comments on paragraph 14?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 240884,
      "EditedText": "That is not my reading of it, David? It says that the\"Parliament may wish to consider\"such a course of action. I do not regard that as binding in any way. The Parliament itself would ultimately have to make the decision.Are there any comments on paragraph 15?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 240886,
      "EditedText": "Remember that the agreement is between the Parliament and the ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 240889,
      "EditedText": "We have not yet discussed how the next stage will be taken forward, but that would be a perfectly valid way in which to do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 240890,
      "EditedText": "It is not just this committee but the Parliament as a whole that is reaching the agreement, so at some stage the amendments will have to be agreed, although I am not quite sure what the process will be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 240891,
      "EditedText": "Does that reinforce the discussion that we had on paragraph 1 about the legal rights and obligations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 240900,
      "EditedText": "That is a bit of an anomaly. It is the same issue as with the Scotland Office, but closer to home. If the Parliament alters its budget—which it is entitled to do, as it is under its control—it has implications for the wider assigned budget. There is no requirement here for the Parliament to suggest where cuts should be made in the Executive's plans. The Parliament's budget, therefore, must be decided in advance of the Executive's budget, which strikes me as anomalous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 240901,
      "EditedText": "It does not say that, but I accept that that is the implication."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 240903,
      "EditedText": "It is a mess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 240909,
      "EditedText": "My suggestion is that the Parliament's budget should be decided in advance of the Executive's expenditure plans. If it is not, it will lead to a fight between Parliament and the Executive, which would be a rather ugly mess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240910",
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 240910,
      "EditedText": "That may be the implication in this paragraph, but it is only that. It has not been stated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 240912,
      "EditedText": "Should we insert a sentence to the effect that we would anticipate that being done in advance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 240922,
      "EditedText": "The figures are not final though."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 240925,
      "EditedText": "We need hard figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 240928,
      "EditedText": "Could not we put \"proposals\" on the parliamentary budget rather than \"working assumptions\"? That would be something on which we could take a view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C240929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 240929,
      "EditedText": "As you said, convener, the original budget for the Parliament was set 18 months ago. It was, we hope, a bit better than a guesstimate, but that is pretty much what it was. As time goes on, we will know much more accurately what the parliamentary budget in any year should be. I would have thought it was quite adequate to have \"working assumptions\"—or equivalent wording—at the appropriate stages, which are stages 1 and 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 240937,
      "EditedText": "That would remove the need for an amendment to the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 240938,
      "EditedText": "We would need an amendment to this paragraph, however."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 240939,
      "EditedText": "The discussion seems to hinge on the term \"working assumptions\". We have agreed where the change is needed. Why can we not put in the word \"proposals\", which would bring in more formality? We would then be able to take a view on something, rather than just noting something. We cannot go through the rest of the process without having something to which to say yea or nay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 240941,
      "EditedText": "It does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 240947,
      "EditedText": "So, if we say that the SPCB's budget must be sorted out by stage 1 or 2, we will have not working assumptions, but proposals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 240953,
      "EditedText": "You are right, Sarah, to say that we are bound by the logistics. It will not be easy to insert something into a bill. However, there is a potential public relations problem for the Parliament if it makes an amendment to its budget at stage 1 of the bill, for which the Executive has to find money from somewhere else. It is nightmarish. We may be left with a written agreement, but is it not feasible to find another solution?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 240954,
      "EditedText": "We have been considering the matter for about 10 minutes and have not got very far, so the answer may be no. We are also up against the clock if we want to find a competent amendment within three days. If we find that there is a need for an amendment to the agreement, we may have to utilise paragraph 15."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 240955,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that is possible. We are talking about the issue of where the SPCB fits into the whole process, not the relationship between the committee and the ministers, which is what this document covers. The document is fine; the issue is what happens to the SPCB. If we can agree a separate document with the SPCB that is satisfactory to us and allows the process to proceed correctly and logically without requiring an amendment to the bill, that is great, but Andrew's point is valid—if the SPCB, which has to abide by the same rules as us, comes to us and says that it wants an extra £5 million, it will have to say where that money will be taken from. If it is taken out of the budget for health or drugs, it will look rather bad."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 240957,
      "EditedText": "This is a difficult matter to resolve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 240962,
      "EditedText": "Surely we must have a role in scrutinising its proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 240963,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the document is about our relationship with the Executive during the budgetary process. I think that we are getting the corporate body caught up in that relationship."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 240965,
      "EditedText": "We have already agreed to ask the corporate body for a report and, if necessary, to question its members. In the meantime, are we suggesting that paragraph 16 be taken out? We need to have an agreement that we should be able to look at the effect of stage 1 and 2 expenditure proposals. I am not happy about dropping the paragraph entirely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 240966,
      "EditedText": "Nor am I. The first sentence states that the document sets out an understanding between the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish ministers. The corporate body is part of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 240967,
      "EditedText": "I know that this is difficult. If the point about where the Parliament's budget sits is included in the bill, which means that the budget must come before the Parliament before the Executive begins its process, there is no need for a paragraph in the document. The legislation provides for parliamentary scrutiny of the parliamentary budget. Given that this is important and that there is an anomaly in the paragraph—I had not spotted it; I do not know whether anyone else did—perhaps we should go down that route. Perhaps that means that we should propose a belt-and-braces amendment now as well as approaching the SPCB for a written understanding of the relationship between us and it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 240968,
      "EditedText": "We have agreed that latter point. The question of the amendment remains."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 542.0,
      "ContributionID": 240969,
      "EditedText": "My suggestion is to agree to delete the paragraph. I understand why you would want to keep it, but if we can amend the bill, the point will be covered. Perhaps we need belt and braces and to amend the paragraph and the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ContributionID": 240972,
      "EditedText": "I think that there is agreement that if it is competent for us to do that, we should."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 554.0,
      "ContributionID": 240975,
      "EditedText": "Or must take account of."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 558.0,
      "ContributionID": 240977,
      "EditedText": "The sense of the paragraph is that the Parliament requires the opportunity to vote on its budget, and it will be given that opportunity as part of the vote on the Executive's expenditure proposals. I think that we are reaching agreement that that is less desirable than having the Parliament's budget agreed separately and in advance. The function of the paragraph is to ensure that the Parliament gets a chance to vote on its own budget. I do not think that we need that assurance at that stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 560.0,
      "ContributionID": 240978,
      "EditedText": "There are larger implications than we initially thought. We must be sure that we will not do something that will disadvantage us. It is important that the Parliament has the ability to work on its own budget. Can we leave it that we will look at the means of amending it, as Sarah has suggested, and hope to deal with it in that way? Also, are we agreed that we should adopt David's suggestion of alternative wording in the second sentence and replace \"include working assumptions on\" with \"take account of\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 240984,
      "EditedText": "That is where Andrew is coming from. We are trying to agree that that is what the Executive's expenditure plans should be. We are agreeing that within the document. The fact that the ministers say elsewhere that they are prepared to accept that position reinforces my proposal. There is a clear break and the Executive budget comes to us net of the parliamentary budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 240990,
      "EditedText": "Is that acceptable? Thank you for your contributions. This is an important point, and I do not think that any of us understood it when we first read it. We could, however, go round and round again for another half hour and we would not get anywhere. I would like to leave it there on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 240992,
      "EditedText": "The drafts are completely separate. It is entirely in our hands when we choose to go back to ministers. There is no particular hurry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 240993,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 594.0,
      "ContributionID": 240995,
      "EditedText": "I thought that that was what the committee was looking for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ContributionID": 240997,
      "EditedText": "We spent a considerable amount of time on that, although it is obviously the most important document. We now move to the second document, \"Budget Bills—Format of Supporting Documentation\".Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 1? The same points apply as at the start of the previous document.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 614.0,
      "ContributionID": 241005,
      "EditedText": "Does that fit into a couple of lines?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 616.0,
      "ContributionID": 241006,
      "EditedText": "It would be another couple of bullet points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 618.0,
      "ContributionID": 241007,
      "EditedText": "Are we all agreed on the wording of paragraph 6?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 620.0,
      "ContributionID": 241008,
      "EditedText": "I have a question about what constitutes \"large\". Is there a definition of that? The paragraph refers to \"a capital expenditure plan, listing large projects individually and summarising small ones\".What are large and small?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 622.0,
      "ContributionID": 241009,
      "EditedText": "Where is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 624.0,
      "ContributionID": 241010,
      "EditedText": "It is the third bullet point of paragraph 6. Until we know what is meant by large, we cannot comment on that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 628.0,
      "ContributionID": 241012,
      "EditedText": "I have one on the final bullet point: \"considered necessary\" by whom and on what basis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 635.0,
      "ContributionID": 241015,
      "EditedText": "We have dealt with that. The parameters will be set.Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 6?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 637.0,
      "ContributionID": 241016,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 7?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 641.0,
      "ContributionID": 241018,
      "EditedText": "That is what the next sentence says, is it not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 643.0,
      "ContributionID": 241019,
      "EditedText": "We could stiffen that next sentence a little by deleting: \"But the Scottish Ministers expect that\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 645.0,
      "ContributionID": 241020,
      "EditedText": "But why does that first part say that the format will be a matter for the Scottish ministers when, further on, we read that the format will be developed \"in consultation\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 665.0,
      "ContributionID": 241030,
      "EditedText": "I do not regard that sentence as a constraint. We can have the minister here whenever we think it appropriate. If there was an impasse, we would expect the minister to come to the committee and to try to resolve the situation.The next document under consideration is FI/99/5/4, \"In Year Changes to Expenditure Allocations\".Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 1?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 673.0,
      "ContributionID": 241034,
      "EditedText": "Can we assume that the last phrase,\"without the prior approval of the Parliament\",means that details will come to this committee and to other committees and that there will be a chance for us to participate, rather than just listen to a statement being read in the chamber?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 677.0,
      "ContributionID": 241036,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 685.0,
      "ContributionID": 241040,
      "EditedText": "I have slight concerns about this. The paragraph suggests that we could consider level 2, then the Executive could decide that it will change that radically. I know that the next paragraph sets a limit of 15 per cent or £50 million—whichever is less—on how much a budget for a section can be increased, but a movement of 15 per cent in a budget is not insignificant and it can be done only with a report to the Parliament. Nothing in the paragraph suggests that such a movement should be discussed in this committee. We are out of the loop.I do not think that 15 per cent is small, considering that most of the changes that we discuss seem to be about 2 or 3 per cent. The sum of £50 million is not insubstantial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C241044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 693.0,
      "ContributionID": 241044,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 3 states that \"transfers should be subject to internal controls.\"What does that mean? Would the Parliament have an input?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 695.0,
      "ContributionID": 241045,
      "EditedText": "I think that that refers to internal departmental controls."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241046",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 697.0,
      "ContributionID": 241046,
      "EditedText": "We have to consider the point in the context of paragraphs 3, 4 and 5. Paragraph 5 sets out the Parliament's opportunities for budget revision. I think that Richard is saying that the threshold for changes is too high."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 707.0,
      "ContributionID": 241051,
      "EditedText": "That would make a huge difference.The other thing is whether it should be only this committee that is informed or whether the other committees should be informed. It would not do for the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, for example, to be told that 10 per cent of its budget had been changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 717.0,
      "ContributionID": 241056,
      "EditedText": "Why do you make that assumption?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 723.0,
      "ContributionID": 241059,
      "EditedText": "If we do that, it will allow us to recommend whether a subject committee should consider the transfer. It does not mean that we have to handle all the work, but it ensures that we will have a debate with the Executive about substantive transfers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 727.0,
      "ContributionID": 241061,
      "EditedText": "I have an inherent antipathy about putting figures into an agreement. If inflation were to take off again—God help us—£50 million might look like today's £20 million and the agreement would have to be revised regularly. It would be helpful to work on a percentage basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 737.0,
      "ContributionID": 241066,
      "EditedText": "We will insert the words, \"at 1999 values\".We have dealt with paragraph 5 to some extent; paragraph 6 provides for a review of the budget procedure in the second full year.Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 7?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 739.0,
      "ContributionID": 241067,
      "EditedText": "Again, it includes the figure of £50 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 741.0,
      "ContributionID": 241068,
      "EditedText": "I do not know the correct procedure, but I think that we need an amendment to the bill in relation to the figure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 743.0,
      "ContributionID": 241069,
      "EditedText": "We discussed the matter with Peter Collings and his colleagues. They might come back to us with an amendment.How should we handle this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 747.0,
      "ContributionID": 241071,
      "EditedText": "The proposal to insert the words, \"at 1999 values\" would seem to be the simplest solution, if it is technically acceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 751.0,
      "ContributionID": 241073,
      "EditedText": "Yes, a percentage applies here in a way that it did not in paragraph 5, because within a section or department it would be meaningful. We can find out what £50 million equates to at the moment and say that that should be the percentage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 753.0,
      "ContributionID": 241074,
      "EditedText": "Are we as a committee going to move this as an amendment to the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 755.0,
      "ContributionID": 241075,
      "EditedText": "If we agree to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 766.0,
      "ContributionID": 241080,
      "EditedText": "Page 63 of the FIAG report gives some of the background information but it does not give specific examples. I am sure we could ask ministers for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 768.0,
      "ContributionID": 241081,
      "EditedText": "Is there anything else on contingent liabilities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 772.0,
      "ContributionID": 241083,
      "EditedText": "We do not know but that should be made clear in the clarification that we are seeking. I assume that paragraph 12 should be paragraph 11 and that no paragraph has disappeared, but we will check that.Thank you. That took some time but it was important that we go through it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 777.0,
      "ContributionID": 241085,
      "EditedText": "The fifth paragraph of the members' briefing note on the annual budget process says:\"The next level of details . . . will be available from November 9th.\"When the briefing note arrived, that was new information to me. When was it made public?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 781.0,
      "ContributionID": 241087,
      "EditedText": "I would just like to comment, Mike, that, if I recall correctly, the Minister for Finance, during his statement, said that the numbers would be available at the end of the month. It is no big deal, but it is a fortnight's slippage. This is the same issue that we have been harping on about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 801.0,
      "ContributionID": 241097,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the invitation to Brian Ashcroft. I think that it is a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 811.0,
      "ContributionID": 241102,
      "EditedText": "I should stress that Professor Ashcroft has not yet been able to say whether he will be able to attend. We may be looking elsewhere anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 821.0,
      "ContributionID": 241107,
      "EditedText": "What is the ultimate deadline—30 November?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 827.0,
      "ContributionID": 241110,
      "EditedText": "If necessary, could we have that as a day session, as opposed to a three-hour slot? Would there be enough time for both of them to deal with what they want to deal with in three hours?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 829.0,
      "ContributionID": 241111,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that anyone can know. Three hours ought to be long enough, surely. We will timetable it on the basis that it should be a full session, which we have never used hitherto. This is one of our longest meetings so far. We would have two and three quarter hours if we start at 9.45 am. That should be enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 833.0,
      "ContributionID": 241113,
      "EditedText": "Is that the Liberal view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 835.0,
      "ContributionID": 241114,
      "EditedText": "It is very unsatisfactory, but I suppose that there is no way round it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 839.0,
      "ContributionID": 241116,
      "EditedText": "I understand the points made. They are good points, but the general issue that we have to wrestle with is that the overall budget is drawn up in a zero sum context. However, the principles of a budget debate are more about shifting between areas than spending priorities within areas. I am against requiring subject committees to come up with zero sums. It is for us to digest and come up with our views.There is an issue here about the extent to which departmental—or committee—lines are reporting lines for us, in terms of where the money is being spent. From the point of view of holistic government, it is about what the committees are delivering. Their job is to look at how well the policy is being delivered; our job is to ensure that the money is being spent well or allocated properly. I do not see how it is possible to do that without having a more open debate that is not in a zero sum context. That applies to paragraphs 2 and 4."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 843.0,
      "ContributionID": 241118,
      "EditedText": "If you ask the Health and Community Care Committee, of which I am a member, to start saying where in home affairs it wishes to pinch money from, we will be there not for three weeks but for two years and we will never get anything done. The subject committee's job is to look at what needs to be spent and where. The job of the Executive, and of this committee, is to find the money to provide what is absolutely necessary.I do not think that we should ask the subject committees to do the second part. I understand what you are saying. They should be aware of that constraint; otherwise, they are going to come up with long wish lists. However, I do not think that they should get into the business of saying where the money should come from. They should indicate where they expect to make savings within their own budgets. They must look at the programme of disinvestment as well as investment, but not outwith their own subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 854.0,
      "ContributionID": 241123,
      "EditedText": "In respect of the work that committees do on the budgets that are allocated to their areas of responsibility, each subject committee has a duty to look very carefully at what that money is spent on. They must not become part of the territorial debate that says that if we have £400 million to spend now, we will have it for ever—taking inflation into account. What they should be doing is asking whether that £400 million is being spent as effectively as it might be and delivering the greatest impact for the public purse.The primary duty of the committee is to ensure that public expenditure is generating the maximum value. If people have serious concerns about the value of programme expenditure, they should offer their opinions and say that they do not think that the system is generating the best value for money. That is a culture that this committee should encourage in other committees and it would be a break with a lot of the territorial attitudes that we have all brought to the table in the subject committees. I do not think that we should be afraid to confront the issues on which we think that the public purse is being badly served by the way in which public expenditure is being deployed. That is part of our role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 856.0,
      "ContributionID": 241124,
      "EditedText": "Committees have to look at the previous expenditure and consider whether it has been well spent. We should then examine the areas in which there should be disinvestment. After that, we should ask in which areas people think that there should be additional investment, including replacement of the disinvestment that they have just recommended. That should be a priority.As Ken said, people cannot just come up with a wish list with no priorities. If there is an additional 1 per cent in the general spending plans, that should be in the background. We should know that an extra 1.5 per cent is being put into the health service and how it is to be spent. Spending must be prioritised in slots that are appropriate for each committee and that must be done in a logical way. That would give us useful material to work on. We do not want to end up in a situation in which bids for very substantial funds are being made at short notice from every sector. Drawing up bids at three weeks' notice is something that the services find extremely difficult.We should start at zero, examine the situation and then go for disinvestment. We must ascertain what funds are not being spent wisely and where we want to retract money from. Then the additional money can be prioritised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 866.0,
      "ContributionID": 241129,
      "EditedText": "There are also a couple of proposals about the Finance Committee taking evidence from subject committees. There could be situations in which that might be appropriate. David made a good point about reporters. That would be a good way for this committee to keep in touch with others. Any of us can sit in on any committee at any time, but a more specific role involving attending and reporting back might be appropriate, depending on what the committee is considering. There are formal rules on reporting; there cannot be more than one reporter. We can do things as formally or as informally as we want, but the important thing is to make contact with committees so that we know what they are doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 868.0,
      "ContributionID": 241130,
      "EditedText": "Andrew and I sat in on the European Committee meeting on structural funds last week. That is the kind of thing that we should be doing for committee matters that have financial implications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 878.0,
      "ContributionID": 241135,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other points? If not, I thank members for their attendance and close the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 880.0,
      "ContributionID": 241136,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:41."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6319,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6319,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 240701,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:45"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6319,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mike Watson): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 240702,
      "EditedText": "I call to order the fifth meeting of the Finance Committee. I shall make the usual opening statement that all mobile phones must be switched off and that all pagers must be on vibrate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 240707,
      "EditedText": "Sarah Davidson certainly made that point clear to Mr McLeod, who sent the papers; it is now on the record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 240712,
      "EditedText": "That is not on. The process of putting an amendment together is tortuous enough for Sarah and the clerks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C240921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 240921,
      "EditedText": "May I clarify this? Paragraph 16 says:\"The Scottish Ministers are agreed that at stages 1 and 2 of the Budget process, the expenditure proposals should include working assumptions on the Parliamentary budget. These assumptions will be prepared by the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body\".Does not that mean that at stage 1, which is the beginning of the budgeting process, there is a working assumption of what the parliamentary budget will be? Do we need clarification? It is there at stage 1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.1780645+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 240714,
      "EditedText": "I know, but the point is that this could have implications for potential amendments to the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 240715,
      "EditedText": "I accept that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C240718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 240718,
      "EditedText": "I have had the papers since the beginning of the weekend, so I must have received them on Saturday morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 240724,
      "EditedText": "May we move on and examine the documents one by one? If there are issues that cannot be adequately dealt with by amending the documents, we can consider whether it is necessary to lodge amendments to the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 240725,
      "EditedText": "Mike—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 240728,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. I take that as read."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 240730,
      "EditedText": "Such a provision should be inserted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 240734,
      "EditedText": "We are caught in a position where the time scale is shorter than we would like. However, we are stuck with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 240736,
      "EditedText": "I believe that we are stuck with what we have, because of the time scale for consideration of stage 2 of the bill. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 240737,
      "EditedText": "It is correct that the Parliament agreed to the business motion proposed by the Parliamentary Bureau, that stage 2 should be completed by 17 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 240742,
      "EditedText": "I want to move on to consideration of the agreements, beginning with \"The Budgeting Process—Agreement of Principles and Procedures\". I propose to move through the document paragraph by paragraph. Any member who has changes to propose will no doubt say so. I will give members time to read through paragraph 1.We will have to decide where to insert a sentence that encompasses our discussion about the committee's assumption that the agreements will stand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 240747,
      "EditedText": "You are absolutely right. However, it might be helpful to amend the first paragraph to say that the agreements represent the way in which things will operate and that that is the understanding on both sides. It is not intended to create any legal rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 240752,
      "EditedText": "There was a case in which a document went out for public consultation before it came to this committee. There is a reference in lines 3 and 4 of paragraph 3.1 to \"the opportunity for the Parliament to seek views from the public.\"That is a different mechanism from that used by the Minister for Finance and the Executive. Can the clerks advise what the difference is, and what was intended by the words? The obligation to consult on some of the minister's proposals is being moved from the minister to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 240753,
      "EditedText": "The difference is that this refers to stage 1 of the budget process rather than to stage 1 of a bill. Because of the date of the elections here, we have not yet gone through a proper stage 1 of a budget process with the minister. What happened earlier was a different situation. The financial issues advisory group always envisaged that stage 1 of the budget process would be a matter for the Finance Committee alone, and this is intended to give effect to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 240756,
      "EditedText": "I know that we will return to this when we discuss format, but on the last point in paragraph 5, it would be desirable to specify the detail that we would require in a provisional spending plan—whether it is level 1 information  such as we received recently or something more detailed. What advice can we get on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 240758,
      "EditedText": "Does not that link to the first part of paragraph 6, which refers to aggregate figures? Presumably that means level 1. As I understand it, the level of detail is defined in the next paragraph, but I was going to ask whether we should say \"as specified in paragraph 6\" in paragraph 5, or whether we should specify level 1, or whatever."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 240759,
      "EditedText": "My reading was that paragraph 6 was the explanation and that information would be received at level 1 unless, as it says later in the paragraph, further information was requested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 240760,
      "EditedText": "Does that cover your point, Andrew?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 240762,
      "EditedText": "The level should be specified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 240764,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 6 refers to \"all reasonable requests\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 240766,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that all requests will be accepted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 240767,
      "EditedText": "From the Parliament? Why not? If the Parliament makes a request, it deserves an answer. Using the word \"reasonable\" inserts an unnecessary value judgment—I am not being pedantic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 240774,
      "EditedText": "Standing orders do not cover that. This is meant to be the agreement that puts dates in place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 240776,
      "EditedText": "I think that Sarah is saying that there is no parliamentary rule that requires answers to be given within a particular time after a request. This is a separate understanding between this committee and other subject committees, and the Executive. We are back where we started: how can we consider the next stage of the process without having exhausted the collection of information that is required to enable us to go on? The time scale must be specified in the document, as it is not specified anywhere else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 240777,
      "EditedText": "Sarah has just told me that only the budget bill is covered by the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 240779,
      "EditedText": "We will make a proposal. I was going to ask what we think is a reasonable time scale, but Andrew would say that that is a value judgment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 240780,
      "EditedText": "As, presumably, aggregate figures would be available at that stage, it should be possible to go down to the level that we wanted within two weeks—it is not as if we would start from scratch."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 240782,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 240787,
      "EditedText": "The paragraph says that ministers will consult the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 240788,
      "EditedText": "I see no connection there between ministers and the UK level. I assume that that happens."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 240789,
      "EditedText": "I, too, assume that it happens, but it is our relationship with the Scottish ministers that is important. As it stands, the paragraph covers that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 240793,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about stage 2 of the process. We will have moved ahead of that by October or November. There would have to be a recall of the Westminster Parliament during the recess for that to impact on us, so the chances are slim that it would impact on us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 240795,
      "EditedText": "In that case, the process will not be at stage 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 240798,
      "EditedText": "It raises a wider structural case for more fiscal autonomy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 240799,
      "EditedText": "A wider case for federal co-ordination."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 240800,
      "EditedText": "Keith can call it what he likes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 240802,
      "EditedText": "Presumably, if we are to produce a report in consultation with other committees of the Parliament, the agreement with the ministers is merely that we will do that. The pace at which such reports are produced will be decided at the conveners committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 240805,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps there are some other issues of competence. If the Government proposed a budget that was based on 1 per cent efficiency savings in the health service, for example, and the committee said that we were quite sure that the Executive could get that to 2 per cent and that the extra money could go to Keith's drug agency projects or whatever, there would be issues of competence as to how far our proposals could go. The last line of the paragraph might be a bit restrictive. All that we are competently allowed to do is to say that, for example, instead of spending £550 million on X, £500 million should be spent, and £50 million should be spent on Y."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 240810,
      "EditedText": "We all accept that if there is £15.7 billion to be spent, there is £15.7 billion to be spent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 240813,
      "EditedText": "If there is £15.7 billion to be spent, there can be no debate about that. However, I am concerned that that line might be used as a restriction on the competence of proposals about efficiency savings, for example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2276766+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 240817,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Ken. It makes it clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C240819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 240819,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether paragraphs 8, 9 and 10, taken together, would restrict the ability of the Finance Committee to recommend the use of the tax-varying powers. My reading of paragraph 8 is that the Scottish ministers would have the sole right to make a recommendation on the use of tax-varying powers. According to paragraph 10, the only thing that the committee can do is produce an amendment that recommends more spending in one area and less in another. What scope is there for the Finance Committee to say that it wants more money in a particular area and that it wants to raise the funds by using the tax-varying powers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 240820,
      "EditedText": "I did not think that it was the role of this committee to make such recommendations, so I am not surprised that the document is not explicit on that point. You are asking whether those paragraphs would restrict us, but I did not think that the committee had that role. If members have any different views, please say so, but that was not my understanding of our remit. It is for the Government to make such a recommendation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 240831,
      "EditedText": "As Keith says, there could be more flexibility in the wording of that paragraph. However, if one is advocating greater efficiency savings and better value for money, one still has to specify exactly what that figure is. If the executive is to save 1 per cent instead of 2 per cent, one must still specify what that saving will be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 240837,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 240838,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that the final sentence be revised to read, \"Therefore, amendments proposing any change in one area must recommend how this change will be financed.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 240839,
      "EditedText": "Within the total."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 240841,
      "EditedText": "That would cover your point about forecasting, would it not, Andrew?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 240842,
      "EditedText": "That would certainly give it greater scope."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 240848,
      "EditedText": "Shall we leave it at \"change\" then?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 240853,
      "EditedText": "Is not the fact that the views of the Scottish Parliament are not binding on Scottish ministers already in the legislation? It strikes me as unusual that it should be included here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 240858,
      "EditedText": "I think that the Executive would take a fairly strong line on leaving that paragraph in. We are all experienced enough to understand what the position would be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 240861,
      "EditedText": "Andrew's point is that it would not be in the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill but that it is implicit in the Scotland Act 1998."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 240863,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would be implicit. I do not think that it would be explicit. I suspect that there could be a debate as to whether it is implicit or explicit, but I am not sure whether it is necessary to duplicate it everywhere. As an argument for efficiency, perhaps we should remove two lines that are duplicated everywhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 240866,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 11 makes it explicit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 240869,
      "EditedText": "At the top of the next page it says that the report on 20 January will set out how the Executive\"has responded to the proposals voted on by the Parliament during stage 2.\"Presumably that clarifies the point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 240873,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that, irrespective of that, there is no case for it to be here. If the legal advice suggests that it is explicit, we do not need it. If it suggests that it is not explicit, we do not want it. Why should we have it, unless any members feel strongly about binding ourselves?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 240874,
      "EditedText": "Is anybody of a different mind on that point? I shall ask Sarah to clarify that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 240876,
      "EditedText": "We shall decide that once the point has been clarified.It now looks as if I avoided paragraph 11 deliberately, but I did not, I assure you.Are there any comments on paragraph 12?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 240877,
      "EditedText": "My only comment on paragraph 12 is about the final sentence. Presumably the words\"necessitated by financial decisions taken by the UK government\"could cover anything, including a spending review undertaken or announced after stage 2. I assume that we would not be able to affect that at that stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 240879,
      "EditedText": "I assume that the UK Government could just say how the money is to be spent and that would be that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240885",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 240885,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 15 covers points of amendment. I think that there may be a contradiction in the final sentence, which says:\"The decision(s) taken in the debate are to be binding.\"I am not sure whether this document needs to be adopted by the Parliament to give it a binding status to begin with. If we agree this with the Executive now, what will happen if, for example, we make amendments to which the Executive will not agree? According to the proposed resolution mechanism, we would probably need to take the amendments to the Parliament to have them endorsed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 240888,
      "EditedText": "That is my understanding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 240892,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 240893,
      "EditedText": "So it reinforces the fact that if the Parliament approves this agreement, any changes on which we cannot agree among ourselves will have to be debated and approved again. However, if the minister proposes a change to which we agree, we would presumably still have to report back to Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 240895,
      "EditedText": "That is what I was just about to say. These bits are all linked together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 240896,
      "EditedText": "We therefore need clarification.We move on to paragraph 16, on the budget. Are there any remarks? The last sentence appears to conflict with paragraph 11, which is less than helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 240898,
      "EditedText": "That is yet to be agreed with the corporate body, but I would expect that the Finance Committee would have an interest in the corporate body's plans."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 240899,
      "EditedText": "The subject committees would presumably also have an interest in how it would affect their budgets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 240906,
      "EditedText": "They were, however, drawn up 18 months ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 240907,
      "EditedText": "This is a potentially difficult structural issue. We therefore need through you, convener, to make representations to the Minister for Finance to try to change the structure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 240908,
      "EditedText": "This is an important issue. We know that questions have been raised about whether the Parliament is adequately staffed and whether the resources for committees to move around the country and so on are adequate. We need clarification on the issue. Should we ask the SPCB to produce a paper to give us its view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 240916,
      "EditedText": "Are we simply agreeing with the minister that there should be a mechanism and that we require the SPCB to contribute to the debate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 240917,
      "EditedText": "The time scale involved in getting an SPCB report will take us beyond the time within which we can amend the document. We would have to use paragraph 15 if we wanted to seek a subsequent amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 240920,
      "EditedText": "Yes. If we are doing it, it should be as a committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 240924,
      "EditedText": "\"Working assumptions\" is such a vague phrase."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 240927,
      "EditedText": "Rhoda's point is a fair one, but the working assumptions put forward on the Parliament's budget change radically from one year to the next due to the recycle point that we have learned about. I am therefore not comfortable with the term \"working assumptions\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 240930,
      "EditedText": "Unless there is a special change, for example, the move to the new Parliament building, the working assumptions will probably be the existing budget plus the increase in the cost of living—1 per cent or whatever. The costs at the new building will presumably be different at first than what they are here. Thereafter, however, there will be a general continuation in the budget with an annual increase."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 240933,
      "EditedText": "That is a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 240944,
      "EditedText": "Such proposals would presumably come up annually anyway, because of the change to the structure of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 240946,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure. The issue now is whether the SPCB's budget will require amendment or scrutiny by us. I think that our view is that it will, which has implications for the Executive's budget. If that is done as part of the bill procedure, it leads to the anomalous mess that I pointed out earlier. It would be desirable for the SPCB's budget to have been sorted out before stage 1 of the bill so that the Executive is clear about what its desired budget is. The Executive can set what it likes, which is another anomaly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 240949,
      "EditedText": "I do, but how do we do that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 240950,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps it needs an amendment to the bill. That is really in the clerk's hands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240951",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 240951,
      "EditedText": "Stage 1 of the budget process begins in March, which is nearly a full year before the final budget will be agreed by the Parliament. I do not know how realistic it is to expect the SPCB to have clear budget proposals, in effect, a full year before they are passed by the Parliament. The matter may be dealt with better through an agreement between the committee and the SPCB, rather than through this document. The SPCB could be part of the consultation process right through stages 1 and 2, to keep the committee informed, as surely the Executive will be kept informed, of any changes in the period between the publication of the annual report and the middle of stage 2. If the SPCB made changes, the Finance Committee would be able to adjust its assumptions in exactly the same way as the Executive. We would need to seek a separate agreement with the SPCB, of which the Executive would, of course, need to be made aware. Interruption."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240952",
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    },
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      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "ID": 2142,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 240952,
      "EditedText": "Mr Lyon, I am not impressed that you have ignored my earlier treatise. Will everybody please check their mobile phones now to ensure that they are off? That goes for members of the committee and people on the public benches. I am not amused."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240958",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 240958,
      "EditedText": "It points up the timing question for Friday, which is nightmarish."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240959",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 2106,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 240959,
      "EditedText": "This is a matter of procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 240964,
      "EditedText": "We need a separate agreement with the corporate body on how the committee relates to it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240970",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 544.0,
      "ContributionID": 240970,
      "EditedText": "Sarah, how do you feel about that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C240971",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "ContributionID": 240971,
      "EditedText": "I cannot give you a view here and now as to whether it would be competent to lodge such an amendment to the bill. I would have to discuss that. I would be happy to do that and to get back to members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2433026+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240983",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
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      "ContributionID": 240983,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 240989,
      "EditedText": "Fair enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240996",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 596.0,
      "ContributionID": 240996,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is what we want. The convener's suggestion stands. We should wait and see what Sarah comes up with."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240998",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
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      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 600.0,
      "ContributionID": 240998,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on the wording of paragraph 2?Members indicated agreement."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241011",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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      "EditedText": "Are there any other points under paragraph 6?"
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  {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 630.0,
      "ContributionID": 241013,
      "EditedText": "By either party, I should have thought. At the start of the paragraph, Scottish ministers and the Parliament are mentioned. I think that that is implicit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 633.0,
      "ContributionID": 241014,
      "EditedText": "Richard has raised an important point about large and small."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 639.0,
      "ContributionID": 241017,
      "EditedText": "The paragraph reads: \"The exact format of these supporting documents is a matter for the Scottish Ministers.\"I would have thought that that would be by agreement as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241021",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 647.0,
      "ContributionID": 241021,
      "EditedText": "It is expected that it will be developed \"in consultation\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 651.0,
      "ContributionID": 241023,
      "EditedText": "In which case, the sentence would read: \"The exact format of these supporting documents is a matter for the Scottish Ministers and the format will be developed in consultation with the Finance Committee.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 657.0,
      "ContributionID": 241026,
      "EditedText": "That is a different point. You are talking about the content of the document, not the format."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 661.0,
      "ContributionID": 241028,
      "EditedText": "I see what you mean."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C241032",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
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    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 130
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 669.0,
      "ContributionID": 241032,
      "EditedText": "A draft of that letter is ready to be sent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 675.0,
      "ContributionID": 241035,
      "EditedText": "Are you asking whether details will come to us before the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 679.0,
      "ContributionID": 241037,
      "EditedText": "The standard procedure will be followed. A lead committee will be nominated and the details will come to us first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 687.0,
      "ContributionID": 241041,
      "EditedText": "The point that David raised was about transfers between departments. You are talking about transfers within departments. The same principle should apply."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 689.0,
      "ContributionID": 241042,
      "EditedText": "Parliamentary approval is not required for movements within departments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C241048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 701.0,
      "ContributionID": 241048,
      "EditedText": "In the enterprise budget, £50 million is about 10 per cent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 703.0,
      "ContributionID": 241049,
      "EditedText": "We do not have a locus in terms of the internal transfers. Our interest should be to decide whether 15 per cent and £50 million are appropriate figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 713.0,
      "ContributionID": 241054,
      "EditedText": "The various committees will do that for themselves."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 721.0,
      "ContributionID": 241058,
      "EditedText": "We have had a suggestion that the committee should be advised of proposals for transfers. We will ask for that."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "ContributionID": 241063,
      "EditedText": "That would be okay."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2106,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 735.0,
      "ContributionID": 241065,
      "EditedText": "Richard is right: it is far better to put in percentages rather than figures. That figure of £50 million rears its ugly head in the bill, too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 760.0,
      "ContributionID": 241077,
      "EditedText": "It would be stated that it was on behalf of the committee. I would be happy for it to be in my name, which would reinforce the point that it was on behalf of the committee as a whole.We discussed the situation raised in paragraph 8 at our briefing session and the general view was that it would be pretty rare for the facility to be used.Paragraph 9 is fairly clear. Paragraph 10?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 762.0,
      "ContributionID": 241078,
      "EditedText": "I would like some examples of what such indemnities are as it is not clear what this is about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C241082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 770.0,
      "ContributionID": 241082,
      "EditedText": "There is no paragraph 11 in the draft. Does contingent liability include consents to borrow for local authorities, etc?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C241086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 779.0,
      "ContributionID": 241086,
      "EditedText": "I do not know that it is public. It was information that came to me from the minister's office, when I checked and was trying to schedule meetings. I wrote \"will\" and ought more properly to have written \"should\". I was told by the Executive that that date was when it expected to have the next details ready."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 783.0,
      "ContributionID": 241088,
      "EditedText": "The timing is extremely tight."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 787.0,
      "ContributionID": 241090,
      "EditedText": "Even so, we have three weeks, basically."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 791.0,
      "ContributionID": 241092,
      "EditedText": "What if some of the other committees wish to raise points about areas of expertise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 793.0,
      "ContributionID": 241093,
      "EditedText": "If they want to make representations to us, they can. We should not necessarily ask them to do that. They will do when the process runs in full."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 803.0,
      "ContributionID": 241098,
      "EditedText": "I was going to come on to that. Almost all of us were at the presentation in August. Professor Ashcroft was there, and gave useful input to it. If he could come again, there would be a general welcome for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C241099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 805.0,
      "ContributionID": 241099,
      "EditedText": "I would also like to make the point that, of the presentations that we received, the two which related most to the budget were those of Stephen Boyle and Brian Ashcroft. They were the most focused on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 817.0,
      "ContributionID": 241105,
      "EditedText": "If he cannot come on 16 November, do we have any flexibility as to other dates? I do not have a calendar in front of me at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 831.0,
      "ContributionID": 241112,
      "EditedText": "We are basically going through a routine, are we not? As you said earlier, we are limited in terms of time. We will have next to no influence on it. Well, that is the truth, is it not? Come on—three weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 837.0,
      "ContributionID": 241115,
      "EditedText": "If there are no other points on that issue, we should begin to look at the way in which the consultation process might be dealt with in future years. There are a number of suggestions in the briefing paper which raise some important questions. I open up the issue for general debate on those points and how we might proceed. It would be helpful if we had a clear idea to send out to other committees or that I can talk about to other conveners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C241120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 848.0,
      "ContributionID": 241120,
      "EditedText": "The problem there is that all the committees could make recommendations about extra areas of expenditure. It is up to this committee to decide where the money will be found, but each of the committees must recognise that it too has a duty to find money, not just to spend it. That is the key point.It is far too restrictive to tell the committees that they can only operate within their own budgets, but they must operate on the basis that there is an overall sum and an overall budget and they must think in those terms. I agree that there is no point in their going through the home affairs or education or whatever budgets in detail, but they must think about them and they must have a target. Otherwise, where do we start? The committees make recommendations to us and say that there is not enough money in a particular area. Where do we even begin to find that money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C241121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 850.0,
      "ContributionID": 241121,
      "EditedText": "I have some concerns about the bottom three bullet points. Reporters cannot go to a subject committee to police it or to guide it in its deliberations, so I am not quite sure what they are supposed to do. They almost certainly should not be members of that committee because they would be attending it with that hat on, and that hat alone.We will want to take evidence, or develop some format for a report from the committees, so that they are working to a style of report that we can cross-reference and compile sensibly here, or we will really struggle. We cannot get through wish lists; that is for certain. If, having had the first set of reports, we find that there is a need to dig deeper, then it may well be that we set up three members of this committee with a delegation from another committee to get a piece of work done. We will end up with the risk that every committee under the sun will want to come and spend a day with us to persuade us of its case. That is not the objective. We must be very careful how we go at this one. The main point to get across is that we are not policemen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 858.0,
      "ContributionID": 241125,
      "EditedText": "It is important to encourage all the committees to get into those habits with each inquiry. For example, I am a member of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, which is conducting an inquiry into drug misuse in deprived communities. We may come up with recommendations that will have cost implications. Committees must be aware of the cost implications of all the inquiries that they undertake throughout the year and of the total cost. That follows on from Richard's point. We must encourage them to be aware of the cost implications of their inquiries, unlike select committees in the House of Commons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C241128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 864.0,
      "ContributionID": 241128,
      "EditedText": "There is also a role for the Audit Committee, which will have a greater input as things get going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C241133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Budget Process",
      "HeadingID": 6321,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 774.0,
      "ID": 6321,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 874.0,
      "ContributionID": 241133,
      "EditedText": "Sarah, have we had enough discussion to put together a draft proposal for the other conveners? I suspect that other conveners have probably not given the matter much thought. They have been busy getting involved in their own subject areas and developing their forward programmes and they may want time to consider this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:14.2589255+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 240705,
      "EditedText": "Although Sarah Davidson and her colleagues did their best and sent out the papers as soon as they received them, I understand that they were not received by the clerks until midday on Friday. However, they were circulated as soon as possible. Perhaps we should simply note the point instead of labouring it, as most members will have had an opportunity to go through the documents in some detail. As we are probably talking about only a day or a day and a half, it would not have made a huge difference. Nevertheless, the Official Report will show that we would rather have had the papers a little earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 240706,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but this is important. It is becoming a habit. Last week, I was at the European Committee, at which the Minister for Finance gave evidence, and the papers were late then as well. That simply does not allow us to do our job effectively. We must receive the papers in time. I have not had the opportunity to have more than a glance at the documents, because they were not here by the time I left for my constituency on Thursday. We have to sort this out, as it is becoming a habit not just with the Minister for Finance, but with other ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 240708,
      "EditedText": "I want to make the same point, but more positively. Someone kindly tried to e-mail the documents to me. Unfortunately, the documents were not in the right format and the file was too large. Luckily, a colleague saw the e-mail and translated the file into a series of attachments that I received yesterday. If we are to be e-mailed such documents, may we receive them in a form that can be transferred?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 240710,
      "EditedText": "The issue has implications for the deadline for amendments to the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill. When is that deadline?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1398
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive (Written Agreements)",
      "HeadingID": 6320,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6320,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 240711,
      "EditedText": "Friday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 47,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 47,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 2888,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 2890,
      "EditedText": "On behalf of the committee, I welcome the public, the press and our witnesses. I introduce Mr Kenneth MacKenzie, our principal witness, the accounting officer, secretary and head of the Scottish Executive Development Department. I welcome Mr MacKenzie and ask him to introduce his colleague."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 2893,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I think that the report is fair and balanced, presenting an accurate account of the position. It recognises that the department's handling of the project was generally competent, that the price that we got from Autolink Concessionaires is likely to remain value for money, and that the PFI approach was justified in this case. We have noted several comments on various aspects of the report and I am sure that you will want to ask us about those. We will state our position clearly. We have already accepted or adopted four of the recommendations made in the report and there are two that we are prepared to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 2894,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I want to start with a general question. There are lessons to be learned from the way in which the project was conducted and my colleagues will no doubt press you on those matters that could have been handled more effectively. Will you set out those aspects of the projects that were handled well and what benefits there have been to the public as a result?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 2895,
      "EditedText": "I ask the committee to bear in mind that the A74 route is the main thoroughfare between Scotland and England. By 1995—apart from the 28 km section in the middle, from Paddy's Rickle Bridge to Cleuchbrae, which remained a dual carriageway—the road had been upgraded to motorway standard from the outskirts of Glasgow to just beyond the English border, following the pledges of the previous Administration. At that time, our cost-benefit analysis suggested that the upgrading of that section would produce net benefits. The main attraction was in bringing the main motorway from Scotland to England—Scotland's principal and most important trading link—up to the same standard throughout. As a result of the project, that section of the road was upgraded and Autolink will provide 30 years' maintenance at that standard for the 92 km between Millbank and Gretna. That was at a cost that was less than conventional procurement and the project was completed slightly ahead of schedule. The report says that \"the benefits of this arrangement seem likely to offset the higher cost of private finance\" and that we \"maintained competitive tension throughout the procurement process\".It goes on to say that we have established what the market price of a design, build, finance, and operate contract—DBFO—of that type should be. The report also says that, by specifying the performance standards that we wanted and the compensation that we would expect if those standards were not met, we \"placed risks consistent with obtaining value for money\".The report says that we \"avoided unnecessary constraints on the scope for innovation\"by the private sector. Finally, it says that the benefit of the design and build being done by the same company that would maintain and operate the road for the 30-year period was an additional advantage. Indeed, the contract allows a degree of flexibility for any changes in the specification that we may wish to make in the course of the 30 years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 2897,
      "EditedText": "I cannot give a final answer on that, because we have been operating the completed road only since April. I do not know whether members of the committee have had the opportunity to drive on it, but it is a dream to drive on. It is safer than before and it is quicker, so there are economic benefits for users and businesses that depend on it. To that extent, it is a success. I cannot give you a definitive answer until the 30 years are up and we see whether it is operated and maintained to the standard that we specified and that the financial structure on which it is based is delivering value for money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 2898,
      "EditedText": "We have to act now rather than wait for 30 years.With hindsight, would you do this project in exactly the same way? If not, why not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 2900,
      "EditedText": "That issue will, I hope, be explored later.The committee will now examine the section about specifying the required service and creating the right conditions for a successful private finance deal to be carried out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 2901,
      "EditedText": "I will ask Kenneth the question, but he can pass it on if that is appropriate. I want to investigate whether it should have been a three-lane or a two-lane road. I refer you to paragraphs 1.10 to 1.12 on page 11 and figure 2 on page 12. They show that the Executive's economic analysis predicted that upgrading the last 28 km of the A74 to motorway would produce economic benefits exceeding costs. Providing three lanes gives rise to larger benefits than two lanes because it reduces delay costs from future road works. Those benefits may arise later than the 30-year appraisal period. How many years will it be before major maintenance that may cause traffic disruption is needed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Howison (Scottish Executive Development Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 2904,
      "EditedText": "The motorway is the principal trade route to England. Maintaining it to a very high standard has been a top Government priority for more than 20 years. It would have seemed odd, therefore, to try to reduce the speed of traffic using this main artery, to increase its capacity without building the extra width."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 2908,
      "EditedText": "I do not have an exact figure. It depends on whether the idea is to build the motorway to two-lane standards, or to build it to two-lane standards in such as way that it can be economically upgraded to three-lane standards. The second approach saves little because the earthworks and bridges have to be constructed to accommodate three lanes from the beginning. Although a two-lane motorway would be cheaper, the benefits to the road-user would be very much less. This is the primary trade route to the south and it carries a very high percentage of heavy goods vehicles, so a third lane is very useful in preventing fast-moving vehicles being slowed down by banks of lorries using the two internal lanes.There would not be much scope for saving in just leaving off the road surfacing and construction for the extra lane. There would be an economic penalty in the reduced level of service that the road would provide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 2912,
      "EditedText": "We must bear in mind that, originally, this job was going to be procured conventionally. Therefore, procedures were put in place for a conventional contract well in advance of the decision to go along the DBFO route. Inevitably, for conventional procurement, the tendency is to build the optimum economic standard of road at the beginning, rather than to convert it later on. With the statutory procedures before us, the question is this: do we want to alter or amend those statutory procedures, to allow a variation? In this case, we felt that by the time the question of the two-lane or three-lane option was raised, we would have been so well into the competition that we might have opened ourselves to challenge by bidders if we had changed the nature of the competition in such a major way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 2913,
      "EditedText": "The Official Report and I hate acronyms. I would appreciate an explanation of DBFO."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 2917,
      "EditedText": "So there has been no change to the basis for the economic case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 2918,
      "EditedText": "I want to add something about justifying the standard. Two approaches are taken in justifying the standard. The first is to consider the capacity of the road. That gives a broad idea of the sort of carriageways that might cope with the projected amount of traffic. The second approach is to conduct a cost-benefit analysis, to work out which is the most economically advantageous option. In this particular case, although the traffic could be carried either by a dual two-lane or a dual three-lane carriageway, at the moment, the economic assessment pointed us clearly towards the dual three-lane carriageway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 2921,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to add anything to that, Mr Howison?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 2923,
      "EditedText": "The NAO report notes the fact that the Executive required bidders to include an option to upgrade to motorway standard the adjacent section of the A74 over the border between Gretna and Carlisle. That was to be done at a predetermined price until January 1999. Apparently, the costs were £48 million for the construction and £7 million for the maintenance over the contract period. By what process did the Scottish Office development department—or the SODD, although perhaps we had better not use that acronym—decide to link the Scottish section to the section between Gretna and Carlisle? Furthermore, what were the perceived real benefits to the Scottish economy of upgrading the English section, given that, in paragraph 1.7 on page 10 of the report, the NAO suggests that the Highways Agency gave a \"low priority\" to the project?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 2925,
      "EditedText": "That was a very comprehensive answer, thank you. Can I confirm, then, that you cannot quantify the increased costs of the Scottish road as a result of the option being included?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 2926,
      "EditedText": "No, because we do not know precisely what the incremental addition to the costs of design and tendering for Autolink were, unless it tells us. We have no entitlement to demand that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 2927,
      "EditedText": "Has the question been asked at all? I know that you have no entitlement to make demands, but has the question been asked within the department?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 2929,
      "EditedText": "I know the feeling. With the benefit of hindsight and the fact that the option was not exercised, do you think that it might have been wise to ask the bidders to provide a two-stage bid—one for the Scottish section and an add-on bid for the English section? I am interested in how you would justify the extra costs that the Executive has incurred, bearing in mind that if the Highways Agency goes ahead, a new commercial arrangement will need to be entered into."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 2934,
      "EditedText": "You said, Mr MacKenzie, that you were awaiting an answer from your English colleagues. How long have you been waiting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 2935,
      "EditedText": "We are not waiting for an answer now. The option under our contract expired on 31 December last year. Although we are party to the steering committee that is looking at alternative solutions, we are no longer bound by that arrangement. This is now entirely a matter for the Highways Agency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 2937,
      "EditedText": "The organisation of which we asked the question that has not been answered was Autolink. We asked it out of curiosity—with the meeting with you in mind—if it could say how much was attributable to the design and tendering of the English section. It has not answered us and we are in no position to press it. It is the private consortium that has not responded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 2939,
      "EditedText": "That was taken into consideration, but we could not, at that point, identify what the costs were likely to be. It was the medium-sized risk that we took. There was a sharing of risk. The English section not going ahead was part of the risk that the department undoubtedly took."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C2940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 2940,
      "EditedText": "So we have no way of knowing the costs of its not going ahead? It is clear that the sum of money may not be vast—nothing like the cost of construction—but are you satisfied that, if such a situation arises in future and there is no scheme for when projects do not go ahead, you will have the appropriate information and will be reimbursed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C2944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 2944,
      "EditedText": "If there is a significant difference, would that be expected to show up in accident rates? How can the Highways Agency give the scheme a low priority if a cost-benefit analysis shows that, because of accident rates, upgrading would be highly desirable? Is there a high accident rate on that stretch of the A74? What figure came out of the cost-benefit analysis? Was it a plus or a minus?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C2946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 2946,
      "EditedText": "I have some concerns about that. The document seems to suggest that it would be neat—and no more than neat—to complete the motorway section, whereas we are trying to assess whether public money should be expended on something that was necessary. Is one of the lessons to be learned from the project that, in similar situations, there should be more intensive investigation as to whether there would be a real cost benefit or just an apparent gain from upgrading the road?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C2950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 2950,
      "EditedText": "Can we turn to the chosen method of payment? Paragraphs 1.22 to 1.24 on pages 16 and 17 of the NAO report show that shadow tolls create a risk for the private sector that can result in higher prices. The private sector is no better placed than the public sector to be able to predict traffic flows. Paragraph 2.12 records the difficulties that bidders encountered in meeting the requirements that were set out, particularly on the point that Euan mentioned on the English section. Why do you think that using shadow tolls was a sensible way in which to reimburse the contractor? What other methods, if any, were considered?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 2951,
      "EditedText": "We acted in line with Government policy for roads DBFO projects at that time. Eight English DBFO schemes had been awarded on the same basis, so we adopted that pattern. This project was seen as part of a clutch of road schemes that the then Government was anxious to fund in this way. We should bear in mind the fact that, when we let this contract, we had not had the benefit of the NAO's report on the first four DBFOs; that report was not published until January 1998. The Public Accounts Committee, following its hearing on that NAO report, published its report in June of that year. The scene moved on after the time at which we had to reach a decision on this scheme, which was seen as part of the first stage towards a customer-financed road operating industry and, as I said, was part of that clutch.Paragraph 3.19 of the report says that Autolink was comfortable with the shadow tolls approach to this project, because it thought that the traffic projections were predictable. As the road is the main route from Scotland to England, Autolink had reasonable grounds for confidence that, in sharing this risk with us, it was soundly based. The taxpayer is protected, because there is a zero toll on band 4. If the traffic increases above that level, we do not pay anything. There is, therefore, a cap on the payments that the department has to make in any one year.In future schemes, the Highways Agency is prepared to consider alternatives, as the NAO report recommended. The agency could, for example, base the volume risk assessment on the availability of the lanes and road safety considerations—whether accidents can be reduced. In some cases, the shadow tolling could be refined to concentrate purely on commercial vehicles—on heavy goods vehicles and long vehicles—as an indication of economic activity and benefit. That approach, I gather, has been adopted for the A13 in London.The Highways Agency is considering those options. At the moment, we have no more schemes on our books and we are not in a position to say what we will do; until we have another real project, we will not know that. However, I think that the Scottish Executive would wish to consider the applicability of this approach to future schemes. Even if the adoption of shadow tolling has added to the costs, it has not caused them to exceed the public sector comparator—this scheme remains value for money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C2952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 2952,
      "EditedText": "When you say \"this approach\", do you mean the alternative approach or the approach that you adopted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 2955,
      "EditedText": "Even with the additional costs that shadow tolling may have involved, this project is likely to remain value for money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C2956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 2956,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that it may still be deemed to be value for money. However, given the alternatives that were highlighted in the previous audit report and the consideration of the scheme in London, would you still say that we should have gone for shadow tolling? Do you think that we should now consider the other options?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 2957,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, the orthodoxy has moved on and methods have been refined. The criticism here is that placing the volume risk with the contractor was not entirely fair, in terms of the contractor's degree of control and ability to manage the risk. The principle is always that risk should be allocated to where it is best managed, and the volume of traffic is not entirely within the management control of the operator. It may be possible to refine risk sharing and to devise a better and more satisfactory method, although we should bear in mind the fact that the operator signed up to this—it was not forced in any way. However, the new approaches may be more satisfactory, and we will certainly be prepared to consider them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 2964,
      "EditedText": "The report says that the department's forecast of the public sector comparator was reasonable. It was checked out for NAO by PriceWaterhouseCoopers and Halcrow, which confirmed that it was generally well founded—I think that that was the phrase used. The report acknowledges that there can be no absolute certainty about the calculation of a public sector comparator, especially in an instance such as this where we have a new process with the inclusion of operation and maintenance agreements is novel to such a transaction. The report also says that, even if we allow for the uncertainties that are inevitable around such a figure, this price can still be expected to give value for money. We did not devise it purely on our own figures. We took advice from our engineering consultants, a firm called Scott Wilson. It was also the subject of value risk workshops, which included, from the construction side, a separate Scottish contractor and a representative of the performance audit group. The construction price was tested on the Highways Agency's risk model and was found not be overstated, so we have that degree of independent, external validation. However, I freely admit that there can be no ultimate right answer that a non-PFI project would have turned out differently. The report itself says that it was not realistic to attempt to be too precise or accurate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 2967,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but it is more than 50 per cent out, which is pretty poor. Do you agree with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 2970,
      "EditedText": "The figures are in the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 2973,
      "EditedText": "I want to go back a stage. The £17 million benefit, or the £9 million benefit—whichever it is—requires operational savings of between, roughly, £42 million to £50 million, compared with the finance cost, which is estimated to be £33 million higher. Can you specify the saving efficiencies in the private sector comparator compared with the public sector that gave you those figures?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 2976,
      "EditedText": "We can do no more than talk about the generalities of where those efficiencies might have arisen, as we do not have a detailed analysis of Autolink's bid, which created those efficiencies. The contract has two phases, the first of which is the construction phase. By going along the DBFO route, the contractor remains responsible for the quality of the material for the life of the project. Therefore, we have been able to take a much more relaxed view on the type of materials that he built into the road pavement, for example, or his structural design for the road pavement. In other words, the risk is his and we do not need to be too concerned about ending up with a delivered product that will not last its required life. That is one source of savings. In addition, we have allowed considerable freedoms in the construction phase for design innovations, from which savings will also arise. On the second phase, which is maintenance, the private sector's principal innovation is the ability to undertake disruptive works outwith busy times of the day, which produces a saving of real benefit to road users. We included that in the calculation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 2977,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that useful response.On the rate at which you discount future cost and benefit flows, the current Treasury rate is 6 per cent, although a rate of 8 per cent was also used on this project. What would have been the break-even discount rate on this project at which the public sector comparator and the private sector comparator equated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 2982,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, gentlemen. Since this arrangement, I understand that the Executive has not provided other roads, using the PFI approach or otherwise. Can you give us some idea of the costs involved and the implications for your budget? In other words, for the next 30 years, what proportion of the annual moneys available for new roads is the scheme going to take? Why have you not used this approach to make a lot of money available to tackle road congestion and so on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 2984,
      "EditedText": "What proportion of the total budget for this type of work is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 2986,
      "EditedText": "But is that £163 million all for this type of thing? As I understand it, that figure is broken down into different programmes. Can you score the £23 million or £24 million against the part of the roads budget that is allocated for this type of work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 2988,
      "EditedText": "But is it not true to say that the £163 million is broken down and that some of it is already committed elsewhere?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 2994,
      "EditedText": "Where does that amount fit into your overall budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 2996,
      "EditedText": "Your overall budget is £163 million, which is not solely for the provision of new roads."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 3002,
      "EditedText": "Why have you not used PFI schemes subsequently?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 3005,
      "EditedText": "The determination of value for money is a calculation that is done internally, as demonstrated in the report, by comparing what it costs to build a road by PFI, discounted against the cost of building it by conventional means."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 3008,
      "EditedText": "If you have a limited amount of revenue, as is clear from looking at your overall budget, a disproportionate amount of it is spoken for for the next 30 years, unless there is a significant change in the roads budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 3009,
      "EditedText": "Precisely. I have no idea what the roads budget will be in 30 years' time, but I do know that by virtue of this arrangement a proportion of it is already tied up. That judgment had to be made when we entered into this project."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 3012,
      "EditedText": "I do not find that answer to be satisfactory."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 3013,
      "EditedText": "What we could not have afforded this year was the £214 million that it would have cost to build the road immediately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 3018,
      "EditedText": "I am not denying that you have to budget for both when you are doing it to have a valid comparator, but I do not think that you are offering us that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 3019,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I may step in here. The preconception is that all of the cost of this project is new construction. In fact, about 45 per cent of the total money involved in this project will be for maintenance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 3022,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add that the answer that I gave to Mr Wilson's question was not my opinion but a quotation from paragraph 3.39 of the NAO's report. The NAO said that its review\"has highlighted strengths in the Department's approach but also the difficulty in reducing the uncertainty in the cost of public sector comparators\"and that it did not think that it was realistic to expect very high levels of precision and accuracy in such forecasts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3026",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 3026,
      "EditedText": "The report says that we managed what the NAO regards as a competitive process and that we fielded an effective project team. It quotes the bidders as saying that they found that the negotiations were conducted in a reasonable way and that communications and confidentiality were maintained.We produced four compliant bids, then took the novel step—which made the process more expensive and time-consuming—of inviting unconditional bids from the two leading tenderers. We did that to maintain competitive tension and to reduce the risk of finding ourselves in negotiations with one bidder.As Mr Adam said, we do not have a large number of projects to offer and we do not have a large budget. That means that our commercial leverage is limited.The report states that the bidders themselves agreed to the extra round of unconditional bidding, at a cost to them as well as to us. They did that on the basis of a mutually acceptable contract that we had agreed with both bidders. The higher costs of this process, for the department and the bidders, were, in our view, necessary in getting a contract that would provide good value for money—given the complexity and novelty of this—at an early stage in the process of developing the PFI methodology."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 3028,
      "EditedText": "If, in a future project, we found that we were unable to attract high-quality bids without offering to reimburse costs, that is clearly something that we would have to think hard about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 3029,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, you are open-minded about that? You would leave a decision until whenever the situation arose again?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 3030,
      "EditedText": "When we got into negotiations, I would want to know what the bidders were prepared to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 3031,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 3035,
      "EditedText": "You will see that, in the middle block of figure 11, opposite Scott Wilson, our technical and engineering advisers, the cost of developing a public sector comparator—which was not budgeted for—contributed to the difference between the £711,000 budget and the £1,883,000 outturn. However, I do not have a note of the precise amount that is attributable purely to the public sector comparator."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 3039,
      "EditedText": "None of the West Merchant Bank costs would have arisen if there had been conventional procurement. Nor would any of the additional legal secondee costs have arisen if there had been conventional procurement. The Percy Thomas Partnership costs would still have arisen. As Mr MacKenzie said, it is a very complex engineering contract and it would have had a very high value, even as a design and build contract. We therefore think that a substantial amount of Scott Wilson's costs would still have been involved in tendering for a design and build contract, but we cannot tell you what the proportion of those costs would have been."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 3040,
      "EditedText": "Adding together the merchant bank costs, the legal costs and a substantial part of the £1.9 million payment to Scott Wilson, I guess that we are talking about between a third and a half of the total outturn costs. Is it fair to estimate the figure to be in the region of between £1 million and £2 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 3041,
      "EditedText": "It could be of that order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 3044,
      "EditedText": "So you have not done the sum for the extra internal costs, nor have you included the comparisons that you made?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 3051,
      "EditedText": "That is not to say that the public sector does not make improvements. I have an analysis here of 42 schemes, with a total value of £540 million. The first batch of 17 schemes consisted of contracts that were awarded in the old-fashioned way. We call it measure and value—in other words for example, the contractor is paid for each cubic metre of cement that it supplies. Those contracts, which were widely used in the industry before 1990, were notoriously expensive. The average increase of the outturn over the tender was 33 per cent.Because we were concerned about that, in the 1990s we tried different methods of procurement. We have tried lump-sum procurement, under which the contractor is paid the amount of money that it quotes at the beginning, subject to the department's retaining a small number of risks. In that case, the outturn-to-tender variance is reduced to 12 per cent. We have also tried a number of design and construct contracts, in which responsibility to design the work for us is given to the contractor, before it carries it out—the design and build parts of the DBFO. On those, the outturn-to-tender variance is 4.3 per cent.We are making inroads on efficiencies and costs of production. However, as Mr MacKenzie says, the banks seem to apply a higher degree of scrutiny, which drives down costs still further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 3052,
      "EditedText": "Presumably, that greater level of scrutiny has a cost element, or do you think that it is simply the result of greater experience of managing money? Have you any other suggestions as to what may motivate investors and banks to exercise stricter disciplines on a project than Government departments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 3057,
      "EditedText": "The figure of 33 per cent that I cited is an average. Cases ranged up to more than 60 per cent cost overrun, so it was a very serious problem. Not only was the overall cost higher than it needed to be, because there was no incentive to reduce the price, but the variability of the costs was difficult to manage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 3060,
      "EditedText": "Can you give us the answer now, so that it can be put on record?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 3062,
      "EditedText": "Is it fair to say that £24 million comes out of the £32 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3064",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 3064,
      "EditedText": "We are always impressed by instant detailed answers. We will take a question from Andrew Wilson, to finish off this part of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3065",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 3065,
      "EditedText": "Let us try to square the circle of the value of having a private lender. Of the five contracted consortia and companies, one is the Innisfree PFI Fund.Where I fail to feel total confidence in the deal is in the assertion that, by necessity, Innisfree or an equivalent private lender must be involved to obtain the operational savings that give the net benefit to the public sector. If the cost of financing the project is £33 million higher under the private finance initiative, you are essentially arguing that the better covenance management offered by the bank is worth £33 million. What is being bought is £33 million-worth of good project management. That is an argument that, frankly, I do not buy. I do not see why the public sector could not purchase that level of project management skill and still obtain cheaper financing, especially as, when you were asked a couple of moments ago to outline where savings were made, there was no certainty about where that would be. One of the innovations was the ability to work outwith busy times. Surely, where the money comes from is irrelevant. The ability to work outwith busy times does not depend on who lends the money, but specifically on who does the operation and maintenance. I cannot see the connection."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 3071,
      "EditedText": "Figure 14 shows that we have achieved the intended allocation of risk to those parties best placed to manage it, but we are, effectively, only in year two of 30. Having looked at other PFI projects, the NAO concludes in its report that the manner in which we placed the risk was consistent with obtaining value for money, not only due to the quality of the performance standards specification that is written into the contract, but due to the discipline of the compensation arrangements—what we will receive if the performance standards are not met—and of the financial investors, as I mentioned in response to Mr Adam."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 3072,
      "EditedText": "More specifically, are you aware of any risks that may crystallise, which could increase the cost of the contract for either party?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 3073,
      "EditedText": "One risk that has crystallised is that the English option has not been exercised, which was the department's risk.  It was reckoned to be of medium likelihood that that would occur, but as we explained earlier, it has. There is always a possibility of legislation from you, the European Community, or whoever, which might have a bearing on the arrangements—I confess that I am in the realm of speculation. That risk is shared.In the financial and economic section, inflation is linked to agreed inflationary indices. Whatever the rate of inflation—there is always speculation about it—we think that we are covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 3074,
      "EditedText": "What is the nature of the compensation provisions in the contract? Will they be subject to further negotiation if any of the risks is manifested?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 3075,
      "EditedText": "The contract would be applied to provide the remedy for a particular risk. Negotiation would not be about the principle, but would simply be about whether compensation figures were agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 3079,
      "EditedText": "Autolink is not compensated for a general drop in traffic if tolls are introduced. It is compensated only for the effect of a differential in the spread of traffic across the network. The answer is that we maintain traffic counts on all the roads in the network, so it would be easy to see whether the proportion of traffic using, for example, the A1 rather than the M74 increased or decreased."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 3081,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 3083,
      "EditedText": "Yes, as far I can be, looking into the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 3087,
      "EditedText": "Can you be specific about the impact on this year's current roads programme, as £7 million is a fair sum? The public will want to know where you have found those resources and how you have offset the costs. Can you be specific about where we have lost the £7 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 3095,
      "EditedText": "I move on to paragraphs 1.10 to 1.12, which tell us that, considering the forecast traffic volumes, under normal operating conditions, there is no justification for upgrading the road to three lanes. However, the contract was structured in such a way that the winning bidder—Autolink—had an incentive to complete the three-lane motorway as soon as possible, to increase the volume of traffic and the income from tolls. That is shown in figure 17. Why was the contract not structured in such a way as to eliminate the potential risk of Autolink securing additional payment for early completion? Can you elaborate on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 3096,
      "EditedText": "Much of the gain in time has been as a result of the innovations that we have been discussing. Autolink's technical engineering achievements have assisted in that. Furthermore, the precise timing of such a project is a function of good luck, the weather, the technical capability of the employees and the volume of equipment that is dedicated to the project. Finishing early has been achieved at a cost to the contractor—it is not just net gain. The contractor had to spend more to finish sooner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 3101,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Can you give us a comparable cost? The additional costs would not have been incurred under a traditional procurement process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 3105,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify the benefits of finishing early. Clearly, there is the extra cost of £7 million spread over 30 years. Then there is the economic benefit of between £5 million and £9 million. That is a recurring benefit—or is it a one-year benefit?—but it is also a notional sum rather than an actual sum. While there is a comparison with an actual sum spread over 30 years, the benefit is in truth a notional sum—is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 3109,
      "EditedText": "You were asked earlier about the change in the traffic forecasts between 1995-96 and the present, and whether there were any discernible changes that might invalidate those forecasts. Your response was no. Can we conclude then, that in your judgment there has been no effect on traffic volumes from the increase in the fuel tax escalator?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 3112,
      "EditedText": "The discounting arrangement gives a figure of £217 million in terms of the costs. What are the actual costs? You have told us that the costs in the first two years would be £23.6 million and £24.2 million. What do you project as the total cost over 30 years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 3113,
      "EditedText": "In pound notes, by 2027 the cost will be £728 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 3116,
      "EditedText": "That is one of the risks that Autolink runs—that vehicle kilometres will or will not exceed the point at which payments are capped."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 3117,
      "EditedText": "That would reduce the £728 million, for example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 3120,
      "EditedText": "Did I understand correctly when you said that the Executive had no input into the materials specified in the contract, the reason being that maintenance would fall to Autolink and that materials were not relevant to the Executive? Was there no reference to materials at all? I did not quite understand the point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 3121,
      "EditedText": "I was trying to say that, in this case, we could be much more relaxed about allowing materials that might be unproven in Britain. An example, given in the report, is the use of stone-mastic asphalt as a surfacing. At the time, we had exclusively used hot-rolled asphalt for such work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 3127,
      "EditedText": "Are you referring to the test discount rate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 3132,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 3134,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I am afraid that the committee will now move into private session. I thank the press for attending today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 47,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andrew Welsh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 2886,
      "EditedText": "I open this meeting—I have resisted the temptation to say, \"Order, order,\" so I am glad that I am learning good new habits. I welcome everybody to the meeting.We have received apologies from Margaret Jamieson. Are there any other apologies? No.I ask the committee to consider holding the first agenda item, which is a discussion on the conduct of the meeting, in private. The item is our opportunity to agree on the way in which the meeting will be conducted, including the detailed questioning of witnesses. Although the witnesses will be broadly aware of the issues that we might cover, I believe that it would be more appropriate to hold the committee's detailed discussion on this item in private.The results of our deliberations—the topics that we raise, the questions that we ask and the issues that we pursue—will be clearly revealed in the ensuing public meeting. However, it is in everyone's interests that those arrangements are concluded in a brief private meeting. This proposal is designed to maximise the efficiency and effectiveness of our work on behalf of the public. Before I ask the committee to agree to take agenda item 1 in private, I wish to emphasise that, wherever possible, the committee will be asked to agree to any initial private meeting at the previous committee meeting, so that everybody can see what is going on. The aim is to avoid causing members of the press and public any unnecessary inconvenience and confusion. I now propose that the committee meet in private for about 15 minutes to deal with the first agenda item. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2892",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 2892,
      "EditedText": "You are both very welcome. The approach that the committee will take in this meeting will be that individual members, in turn, will ask a series of questions on a particular theme of their choice. Afterwards, there will be an open session in which members of the committee will be able to pursue follow-up questions. Questions from members may be put directly to both Mr MacKenzie and Mr Howison, who have confirmed that they are happy with that approach.First, do you accept the facts and conclusions that are set out in the report, \"The Private Finance Initiative: The contract to complete the A74(M)/M 74 motorway in Scotland\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2896",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 2896,
      "EditedText": "That question allowed you to tell us what went well. I also want to ask the opposite question. What went wrong and what lessons have you learned? Can you tell us, with hindsight, what did not work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2899",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 2899,
      "EditedText": "The only thing that would cause me not to do it in the same way would be if I had any doubts about whether it was value for money. As an accounting officer reporting to you I am not primarily concerned with how the project is delivered, how the money is raised and how the work is done, provided that the solution that the department adopts gives best value for the money that we are spending. It should not necessarily be the cheapest solution; it should be the best affordable solution at that time. In a future case, I would ask the same questions, particularly how the project looked against the public sector comparator."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 2902,
      "EditedText": "The first major repair of the road will occur between years 17 and 24. On whether it should be two lanes or three lanes, I remind you that the report says that the specification\"generally promoted value for money\".As you say, it draws particular attention to the point about the number of lanes. In the light of experience elsewhere, it was advantageous to have the statutory procedures that had been set up for conventional procurement for building this road—including an environmental statement—cleared and out of the way before we invited tenders, so that tenderers knew exactly what they were tendering for. The environmental statement specified the layout of the road. When the tenders were advertised in the Official Journal of the European Communities, we indicated that we were looking for a dual three-lane motorway, not a two-lane motorway. Otherwise, we invited tenders for a service rather than a physical asset, but we were specific as to how many lanes we wanted. The reason for that was that our early cost-benefit analysis suggested that three lanes would be better value for money from the start, given that this section of the motorway would connect to existing sections that had three lanes. The general policy has been to have three lanes on the M74. Within that three-lane requirement, bidders had scope for innovation. That is made clear in the report.Another suggestion that was examined was that we did not need to build three lanes from day 1, but could build two lanes and move to three lanes later—maybe during the major reconstruction period I mentioned. The worry was that that would increase congestion and add to delays in both construction and maintenance. The runner-up bidder, UK Highways, evaluated what a two-stage three-lane approach might mean, and concluded that it was unlikely to yield significant benefits. I am not adamant that road standards need to be defined at the outset in every case, but that was how we came to that conclusion in this case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 2903,
      "EditedText": "Were ways of avoiding congestion other than building three lanes, such as traffic calming, examined in detail?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2906",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 2906,
      "EditedText": "One might make a comparison with a starter home, parts of which can be improved: when the couple want extra room for the baby, they will start knocking the house down and creating dust and disturbance.It is not an easy job to go from a two-lane to a three-lane road—one cannot just roll out the extra blacktop. If you want, I will discuss the options for doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 2910,
      "EditedText": "I think that there was a fair amount of consultation with potential bidders. We invited expressions of interest, and six such expressions were received at the beginning. Those were whittled down to four, and ultimately to two. At that informal stage, before any commitments are made, there is a process by which potential bidders can express an interest in exactly what the project will be like, and we can bounce ideas off them. However, it is an informal process, not a workshop."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 2915,
      "EditedText": "In paragraph 1.10, on page 11 of the NAO's report, it is clear that the economic case for the project was critically dependent on the traffic forecasts that were made at that time, which were updated in 1995 and 1996. That is also clear from the answers that you have given. How do the traffic volumes now compare with the original forecasts on which the decisions were based?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 2916,
      "EditedText": "Quite a lot of work was done on traffic forecasting, as it is critical to the cost of the scheme. We have not had much time, since the road was opened, to pursue the forecasts, but traffic volumes are broadly in line with what we projected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 2919,
      "EditedText": "I have a question on a slightly tangential matter. Some of my colleagues will want to pursue the question of shadow tolling with you, but the implication of that is the possibility of real tolls being introduced at some point. The Executive is considering what kinds of road charging might help to tackle problems of congestion and so on. Have you carried out any calculation of how the introduction of real tolling might affect the traffic volume, and thereby the economic case in this instance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 2922,
      "EditedText": "The terms of the contract compensate the contractor only for diversionary effects of traffic reduction on this road, not for absolute effects caused by tolling. In other words, if tolls did not have a diversionary effect when applied across the network, the road would be cheaper to the department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 2928,
      "EditedText": "We have asked the question, but we have not received an answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 2932,
      "EditedText": "Apart from the specification that the road should be a dual three-lane motorway, bidders had ample flexibility to suggest innovations in the way in which the service could be delivered. Figure 3 on page 15 of the NAO report gives an example of the kind of innovation that they introduced. Within the constraints of the envelope of land that had been subject to statutory procedures and the stipulation that it should be three lanes rather than two, there was a good deal of scope for design innovation. That is shown by the way in which the surface and the vertical and horizontal alignments were chosen, and the way in which some bridges, embankments and cuttings were designed. We think, and I think that they would endorse this, that there was ample scope for innovative design—some of which must have contributed to the earlier completion date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 2936,
      "EditedText": "I am interested to know how long you waited for an answer when you needed one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C2938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 2938,
      "EditedText": "I would like to concentrate for a moment on that question. \"Out of curiosity\" was the phrase that you used about the costs of tendering and so on. Part 3 of paragraph 1.7 on page 10 of the report mentions \"a formula for phasing the reimbursement of the cost of the English section\".That is conditional on the scheme going ahead. Was there any consideration of the costs of the scheme not going ahead?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 2941,
      "EditedText": "I can see the desirability of that. I think that, as a result of this experience, we would be even more careful in entering into such an arrangement. With the benefit of hindsight, it is possible to say that we took a risk; we should have quantified it if we could, but we did not. If we had not taken the risk, however, we would have been open to even more severe criticism for having been so short- sighted as to let go an opportunity to do things in a oner and to secure continuous quality of the road, which, as things stand, is a source of irritation to many Scottish motorists and lorry drivers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 2945,
      "EditedText": "The cost-benefit analysis examines the statistical likelihood of accidents. The section of road is relatively short, so the actual accident record would not necessarily be statistically reliable. The cost-benefit analysis will take into account the average accident rate for an all-purpose road and will compare that with the average rate for a motorway. I do not have the actual accidents figure for you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 2949,
      "EditedText": "Ministers gave a high priority to completing the motorway section, to the extent that when John MacGregor announced the go-ahead for DBFO projects in England he included this scheme. We had previous experience of cross-boundary co-operation with the Highways Agency and its predecessors at the A1, where we undertook a joint contract to improve the road, and at the A74, where we had already constructed a length of the English motorway and had been repaid. With hindsight, of course, one would come to a different conclusion, but at the time we felt that there was a high degree of commitment from the Highways Agency. We had no reason to believe that it would not pursue the option, provided that the statutory procedures could be completed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 2953,
      "EditedText": "The approach that we adopted—shadow tolling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C2954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 2954,
      "EditedText": "So, even with the benefit of hindsight and despite all the other options that have been highlighted, you believe that shadow tolling was the best option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 2959,
      "EditedText": "Behind the question of value for money, which must always be paramount, is the issue of the categorisation of the project and its accountancy terms. To be classified as off the balance sheet, the project requires the beneficial ownership of the road to lie with the operating company. That is decided not by the physical ownership, but by the rewards that the company obtains over the period of the contract. It also depends on the risks that the company takes. Inevitably, to the extent that the transfer of risk will be expensive, the company would endeavour to reduce the risk that it takes on board to the minimum that is required to satisfy the accountancy treatment. The answer to your question is that Autolink will have taken on board what it considers to be the minimum risk in relation to the accountancy treatment, having regard to producing as low a tender as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 2962,
      "EditedText": "We now move to questions on the choice between private finance and conventional procurement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 2963,
      "EditedText": "I want to focus first on your public sector comparator with the private finance initiative project appraisal. The net benefit that you have calculated is £17 million. What is the error term in that? What is the sensitivity analysis in terms of the scope for it to be incorrect in your calculations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 2965,
      "EditedText": "Let me put it this way. The report also says that the estimated overstatement in the comparator was about £9 million. By my calculation, the benefit of £17 million is subject to an error of more than 50 per cent, which makes the benefit calculation very inaccurate. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2966",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 2966,
      "EditedText": "The £9 million is well within the compass of the £17 million."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2968",
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 2968,
      "EditedText": "I do not see that as poor in comparison with other public sector comparators and the extent to which one might have room within the two figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2971",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 2971,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but is there any reason why that should not be the case across other projects in which your department is involved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2972",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 2972,
      "EditedText": "All the department's projects are subject to examination by the NAO. I do not see any difficulty if, as in this case, we agree with the NAO that the tables recording the figures should appear in a published report."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2974",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 2974,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, I did not quite understand the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2978",
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    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 2978,
      "EditedText": "There was a positive net present value down to, I think, 5 per cent, where the gap was £8 million; however, at 4 per cent, it was negative."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2979",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 2979,
      "EditedText": "So, it is around about the 5 per cent mark. Is that calculation easy to obtain for most projects? Is it straightforward, as it comes from the cash flows? Do you go for that sensitivity in every case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2981",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 2981,
      "EditedText": "Thank you—that was useful."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2987",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 2987,
      "EditedText": "The motorways and trunk roads budget pays for the construction of new roads and the maintenance of existing ones. That is the £163 million in the current year, of which £23 million is taken to pay for this scheme."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C2989",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2990",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 2990,
      "EditedText": "Is it true to say that that £24 million—a substantial part of the budget—was available and uncommitted?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2992",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 2992,
      "EditedText": "What I am trying to get at, Mr MacKenzie, is a breakdown of the £163 million. It is not just an overall sum—it is allocated to separate headings. Can you give us an idea of what those headings would be and how this £24 million per annum might score against those headings?"
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  {
    "ID": "C2993",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
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      "EditedText": "By comparison with a road that we are building by conventional procurement, for example?"
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  {
    "ID": "C2995",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
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      "EditedText": "Our overall budget is £163 million; £24 million of that is for this road. Are you asking what the rest consists of?"
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
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      "EditedText": "No, it is for maintenance of existing roads—"
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      "EditedText": "Can you give an answer now?"
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 3000,
      "EditedText": "I will have to come back to you on that. You want to know how much is spoken for by maintenance and how much by new construction, however that is financed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 3004,
      "EditedText": "We are concerned with value for money. Is any consideration given to affordability, with regard to the revenue that might be available? The advantages of PFI are that you do not need to find the capital and the cost is spread over 30 years, but that has a significant effect on the available revenue. Has any consideration been given in your budget to affordability, in terms of factoring in future projects and value for money? Is that part of your value-for-money considerations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3007",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 3007,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps you mean affordability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 3010,
      "EditedText": "So affordability did not come in to the considerations as to whether PFI was an appropriate way to finance the budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 3014,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that the capital costs were £214 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 3016,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, you have been rather selective in the figures that you have produced for us. You talked about what the revenue costs of the shadow tolling would be in years one and two, when they are very low. You are now aggregating 30-year costs and allocating them in year one. Some of those costs are maintenance costs and not capital costs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 3021,
      "EditedText": "The report, rightly, covers value for money. Affordability was considered when the decision to take the road project forward was made. At that time, it was decided that three such schemes should be taken forward. One of the factors was to ensure that the composite cost of the three schemes would not be too great a proportion of the money available. As Mr MacKenzie has said, though, after the contract was awarded, the amount of money available for trunk roads was reduced. The issue is not that the money represents a high proportion of the overall money that is available, but that allowance has been made for the scheme even though the money that is available has been reduced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 48,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 3023,
      "EditedText": "I think that that condemns the procedure in any case. If we cannot have robust calculations, what is the point in having a comparator? That question is especially relevant if the comparator is a way of making judgments at the margin and if the comparator has a degree of variation that is perhaps 5, 10 or 15 per cent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3024",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 3024,
      "EditedText": "The document simply says that the levels of precision are not very high, but the levels are robust."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3032",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 3032,
      "EditedText": "I have a question on the additional cost to the department. Pursuing any PFI contract involves extra costs and advice on dealing with the complexities. However, the figures—particularly in figure 11 on page 31—show that your outturn costs were more than twice the budget that was set by the department. Of those extra costs, how much would you have saved if you had chosen a conventional design and build project, instead of a design, build, finance and operate project?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 3036,
      "EditedText": "The implication is that most of the extra outturn would have been attributable to the public sector comparator? Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 3038,
      "EditedText": "So, quite a small share of the additional outturn would have been saved in those circumstances? What about in-house costs such as the legal involvement in your team, and so on? How much of that is attributable to the fact that this was a privately financed project?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 3042,
      "EditedText": "How did you deal with those extra costs in appraising the private sector option? Did you add those to the winning bidder's price when assessing whether the contract represented value for money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 3046,
      "EditedText": "We have had quite a long session and I would like to cover all aspects of the situation, so I ask Brian Adam and Andrew Wilson to finish off this section."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 3047,
      "EditedText": "Following on from what Annabel Goldie and Lewis Macdonald were asking, I note that you originally had six people seeking the contracts and that four of them made it through the pre-qualifying stage. I also note that the bidder that was ultimately successful did not make it through the pre-qualifying stage. Do you have any concerns about the qualifying conditions, bearing in mind that, in terms of value for money, Autolink was the only bidder to put in a bid that was better than the public sector comparator?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 3048,
      "EditedText": "Although we had six applicants originally, one of them—the Wimpey Morrison Babtie group—fell out because of Wimpey's merger with Tarmac Construction. That provided the opportunity for Autolink to strengthen its team significantly with the additional engineering expertise of Babtie. It also brought in Barr, a major Scottish contractor with significant local knowledge. We believe that our decision, based on the analysis of the six contenders, was correct. It was the strengthening of the team within Autolink that allowed it to do so well in the end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3049",
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      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 3049,
      "EditedText": "Let us move on to the use of private finance, which is mentioned in paragraphs 3.4 and 3.5 of the document, and to whether, through this project, we can gain experience to strengthen public sector provision. What specific skills do you believe banks and investors have brought to the project that could not have been provided by the Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 3054,
      "EditedText": "In that case, could you and Mr MacKenzie say what factors were causing the cost overruns in the first series of projects to which you referred, which you were later able to squeeze out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 3055,
      "EditedText": "The old-fashioned contract forms did not produce a particularly effective incentive for contractors to restrain their costs when they discovered difficulties that they claimed they were unable to foresee at the time of tendering."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 3056,
      "EditedText": "Can you give us an example from recent years, prior to this project, of how much of a problem cost overruns and delays have been for major road projects in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 3058,
      "EditedText": "We need to press on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 3059,
      "EditedText": "I have the answer to Mr Adam's question about the proportion of the budget. Would it be convenient to give that now, or would you rather that I supplied it in writing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 3063,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 3066,
      "EditedText": "If I may say so, that is not altogether so. If working outwith busy times costs in terms of lane penalties or lane occupation charges, one will do the work when the cost is least—for example at night, when occupation charges and penalties are low. However, if one is not under that constraint, one will do the work in the daytime, when one does not have to pay staff overtime for night work. That means occupying the lanes and inconveniencing motorists, however, which brings an economic disbenefit at peak motorway usage times."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C3067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 3067,
      "EditedText": "If the decision is of benefit to the public sector, however, you, as a procurer, could simply tell the maintenance team that it must operate in the evenings. There is nothing to stop you doing that; it is not a great skill that must be bought from Innisfree PFI Fund. It is a simple aspect of project management that you could do. I do not see the connection between private finance and operational savings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 3070,
      "EditedText": "One of the attractive features of PFI is the ability to pass out risk and for risk not to be retained solely by the public sector. What evidence has emerged so far from this particular project to demonstrate that risk transfer is resulting in value for money, or is it too early at this stage to assess?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 3076,
      "EditedText": "The contract would simply be interpreted as at the date of the emergence of the risk in the risk claim and the underlying principle of the contract would not be renegotiated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 3080,
      "EditedText": "So there is a formula to determine how the compensation provision would be applied?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 3082,
      "EditedText": "Are you satisfied that the contract, which cannot be renegotiated, has not been over-generous to Autolink?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 3085,
      "EditedText": "The road was delivered some six months earlier than Autolink's scheduled date, which the Executive had felt at the time of bidding was ambitious. In paragraph 3.9, the NAO estimates that that might have increased the cost by more than £7 million. Given that the road has now been completed successfully, what is the current estimate of the increase in the cost of tolls as a result of early delivery?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 3088,
      "EditedText": "The £7 million does not all fall this year. We expect to pay £23.6 million this year. Payment has been advanced by a few months, but it has not been at the expense of other projects that we might have started this year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 3094,
      "EditedText": "We have not lost it, because we have gained considerable benefits. Road accidents are much less likely on that stretch of road because construction disruption has now been removed. Furthermore, the removal of the 50 mph speed restriction along the road has allowed traffic to move more speedily, which results in economic benefits."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 3098,
      "EditedText": "Which marginal cost are you comparing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 3103,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 3107,
      "EditedText": "Right. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C3118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 3118,
      "EditedText": "By the very nature of these inquiries, they tend to be negative. I will focus on two positive aspects. Paragraph 1.18 on page 15 highlights the innovative procedures that Autolink used to renegotiate parts of the alignment of the road and the accommodation underpasses. Those procedures could be picked up by public bodies. A little lateral thinking would probably result in some savings for the public purse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C3122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 3122,
      "EditedText": "If there is little input into the choice of materials and a problem develops, the costs might fall to Autolink, but what about the disruption to the general public and the loss of economic efficiency?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3123",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 3123,
      "EditedText": "If Autolink has to undertake remedial works on the road, it will have to pay the lane occupation costs that are built into the contract."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3128",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 3128,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3129",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 3129,
      "EditedText": "We understand that it is proving to be appropriate in the view of the Treasury for public sector investment appraisals. Until we see guidance to the contrary, we expect to apply that rate. Nevertheless, the NAO report on the Highway Agency's first four projects suggested that a range of discount rates should always be applied, to demonstrate the exact point at which a project ceases to provide value for money, as I said in response to an earlier question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3133",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 3133,
      "EditedText": "The committee will now discuss the final two agenda items, which include the next steps in this inquiry, the preparation of a draft report and future business. I believe that it would be more appropriate to hold those discussions, which will include contributions from our advisers, in private, so I propose to consider the final agenda items in private. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3135",
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      "ID": 16
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 3135,
      "EditedText": "Meeting continued in private."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2885",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 2885,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:00"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2887",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "EditedText": "That is unanimously agreed."
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  {
    "ID": "C2889",
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      "ID": 16
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 26 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 2889,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2891",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth MacKenzie (Scottish Executive Development Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 2891,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. Allow me to introduce John Howison, who is the department's chief road engineer and was principally engaged in the A74(M) project."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 2905,
      "EditedText": "Could we compare opting for three lanes with a young couple setting up home and going for a five-bedroom house instead of a two-bedroom semi? We are going for a much bigger and more expensive road."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2907",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 2907,
      "EditedText": "The decision has been taken and we have the road now. Paragraph 1.11 on page 11 confirms that a two-lane motorway would have been cheaper to construct. It also says that, under normal conditions, traffic forecasts do not justify the addition of a third lane. How much cheaper would it have been to construct a two-lane motorway?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2909",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 2909,
      "EditedText": "I will follow up on that. Mr MacKenzie, you said that we were perhaps liable to focus on the asset rather than the service. You explained how the decision was made within the department—that it would clear the path if the statutory requirements were done and the environmental statement was produced and so on. Why did you not consider consulting the bidders about alternative ways of providing that service before you had done that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2911",
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      "ID": 16
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      "ID": 103
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 2911,
      "EditedText": "Mr Howison, do you want to add to that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2914",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 2914,
      "EditedText": "Design, build, finance and operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 2920,
      "EditedText": "According to the partnership agreement, road charging will be considered where it seems sensible to do so. No decision has been taken on the introduction of road charging on this motorway or anywhere else. The Executive is still considering the responses that it has received to the consultation document \"Tackling Congestion\". That is where we stand, formally. The introduction of real tolls might have a diversionary effect on some of the traffic that would otherwise use this road. If road users did not want to pay, and they did not have to pay on the all-purpose road or on an alternative route, the number of vehicles that would use this road would be less than the shadow toll figure. At the moment, we do not have a calculation for that diversionary effect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 2924,
      "EditedText": "I accept that the tendering costs for the English section have necessarily had to be borne as part of the shadow tolls. However, it is not possible to quantify exactly how much is attributable to that section. The company has not revealed those figures and we are not entitled to demand them. We have no reason to believe that the sum would be significant.The opportunity seemed worth taking to secure continuous motorway to the junction of the M6. We should bear in mind that this road is the main trade link between Scotland and the rest of the world, and having continuous motorway from Glasgow to the channel ports was bound to benefit the Scottish economy and other Scottish road users.The committee would have had legitimate grounds for criticising us if we had said today, \"Well, there was a possibility of achieving continuous motorway, but we didn't think to look at it.\" The opportunity was worth investigating because of the potential savings in time and cost of doing the whole operation at once and having the so-called Cumberland gap filled.When we entered into the arrangement, we believed that the Highways Agency also saw the attraction of the project and was committed to it. That organisation's attitude in the paragraph that you cited was more influenced by the cash flow within its own roads programme than by a belief that the project was not worth doing. However, the agency decided that the project was not sufficiently worth doing to advance the funds so early.As a result, we reached an understanding with the agency that we would build the road through the Autolink contract and carry the costs on the shadow tolls until 2005, by which time the agency expected to be able to afford the project. At that point, the agency was to take over the payments and reimburse us to a point where the operation would have been neutral to the Scottish Office. That was the nature of the deal.However, after the comprehensive spending review in July 1998, it was clear that the agency was not able to contemplate that option and was looking for a lower-cost option. As a result, the agency did not take up our option before the time to do so expired, at the end of December 1998.Since then, the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions and Autolink have had some discussions about how to secure completion of the English section within the terms of the DBFO contract. Those discussions have now been abandoned, and the Highways Agency, with Cumbria County Council, has commissioned a further study of alternative ways of achieving a motorway standard for that section. The study is nearing completion. It is being conducted by a steering group on which the Scottish Executive is represented, so we still retain an interest. The study's findings are in the process of being finalised and they will be considered by the North West regional assembly, from which a further proposition to the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions may emerge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 2930,
      "EditedText": "The original proposition was that the option would have to be exercised by the end of December 1998, which would have meant that it started before the completion—in April 1999—of the Scottish section. The construction phase could have been an end-on, if not entirely continuous, operation. There was no question of leaving it for some years and then returning to it, but that is precisely the situation that now arises as a result of the Highways Agency not taking up the option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 2931,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to go back over old ground, but I refer you to paragraph 1.15 on page 13 of the report. I want to address not so much the specification of a three-lane road as the flexibility bidders have to provide a solution. The NAO makes the point that the department did not allow bidders the flexibility to investigate alternative solutions. Have you any comments on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 2933,
      "EditedText": "I would like to return to some of the innovations later, but I have finished with that section."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C2942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 2942,
      "EditedText": "You talk picturesquely about the Cumberland gap, but it is not a green field between the two sections of road, nor a muddy track. What are the significant differences between the so-called English section—the Cumberland gap—and the motorway standard? As I recall, there is some similarity between the two."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 2943,
      "EditedText": "The phrase \"Cumberland gap\" is not of my devising; it has been used in the Carlisle local press. The road is similar to the gap in the M8—on the A8 between Newhouse and Baillieston—where there is a discernible difference in the quality of the road and there are far more access points. The A74 between Guardsmill and Carlisle is an all-purpose road: a tractor can come on to it, which motorists would not be expecting if they had just come off 130 km of motorway. This is a question of the kind of traffic, the number of access points, the number of lanes and the fact that motorists, some of whom may have driven all the way from Birmingham on continuous motorway, suddenly find themselves on that stretch of the A74 and may not be prepared. It is a question of safety."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 2947,
      "EditedText": "We have to remember that this is not a Scottish road. We were not responsible for making the justification for it; our role was simply to act as an agent for the Highways Agency of the Department of Transport. How the analysis should have been undertaken, therefore, was largely a matter for that agency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C2948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 2948,
      "EditedText": "But the Scottish Executive is still bearing costs for this, so it is not quite as simple as saying that it is a matter for the English authorities, is it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C2958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 2958,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 3.18 and figure 17 on page 44 of the report show the sculpting factors that were agreed between Autolink and the Executive. Those have the effect of skewing the shadow toll payments towards periods of high expenditure for Autolink, such as debt repayment and major maintenance works. Taking into account the sculpting factors, how much traffic and revenue risk is Autolink bearing in this project?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C2960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 2960,
      "EditedText": "I can accept that—that is obviously what all companies want to do. What are the real financial risks that Autolink have taken on in terms of variations in traffic flow?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 2961,
      "EditedText": "Figure 16 on page 43 shows how, in sculpting the bands and the different tolls per vehicle-kilometre, Autolink has had to calculate what it would expect to get back over the 30 years. The slopes are its calculation of what risks it thinks it could bear. The reason why the lower bands are more expensive to the department than the higher bands is precisely the unfolding of the degree of risk that the company is prepared to carry.The number of vehicles actually going down that road will or will not be as the company expected. However, because of the nature of the road—the fact that it is the main motorway from Scotland to England—and because of the predictability of the traffic projections, Autolink felt comfortable with shadow tolling, as the report records."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 2969,
      "EditedText": "Okay. That is in terms of actuals rather than proportions. On the public sector comparison, my understanding from NAO activity in the rest of the UK is that there is no reason why this information should remain confidential after a deal has been signed. Is there any reason why, with this or any other PFI project, public sector comparison with the private sector appraisal should remain commercially confidential?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 2975,
      "EditedText": "If, as the report states, the finance costs are £33 million higher but the net benefit, in your calculation, is £17 million, the efficiency savings from the operation of the scheme, compared to the public sector option, should amount to £17 million plus £33 million—that is, £50 million. Where are these operational savings identified in the comparison between the public and private sectors? What are the main sources of the private sector efficiencies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 2980,
      "EditedText": "We chose to do so in this case. At the time that the project was entered into, the test discount rate for roads projects was 8 per cent, as rail was still in public ownership. Investment in roads and rail had to compared on a level playing field. In February 1997, the Treasury told us that 6 per cent would be more appropriate in future, in line with the general guidance on public sector investment projects. Because of rail privatisation, the condition was no longer applicable. In future, we would want to test—as we did here—to a range of discounts, as the NAO report on the Highways Agency's first four projects enjoined us to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 2983,
      "EditedText": "It will not surprise you to hear that the roads programme in Scotland has been diminishing since 1994-95. We estimate that the payments on this scheme will be £23.6 million this year and about £24.2 million next year. That represents our payments to Autolink for the shadow tolls in respect of this project. That part of our budget is spoken for by this commitment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 2985,
      "EditedText": "The budget for motorways and trunk roads in the current year is £163 million, so you are comparing—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 2991,
      "EditedText": "That amount was budgeted for. We are in the current financial year, so the £163 million is already committed on maintenance and the completion of the roads that are under construction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 2998,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. That is the point that I am making. I would like to know how the £163 million is divided up. Some of it will be for the maintenance of existing roads. What proportion of the new roads budget does the £24 million represent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 3001,
      "EditedText": "We want to know where the £24 million fits in to the overall budget, because it is a major commitment of money. We would appreciate it if you could give us the figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3003",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 3003,
      "EditedText": "We have not had any new projects subsequently. It was intended to use that approach for the M8, but the project was cancelled last year as a result of the comprehensive spending review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3006",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 3006,
      "EditedText": "It may be better if I did not use value for money in its technical sense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3011",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
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      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 3011,
      "EditedText": "No, I am not saying that. We would not have entered into the contract had we not been able to afford the £23 million this year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 3015,
      "EditedText": "That would be the equivalent cost of building the road by public sector procurement. The cost would not all have fallen in one year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 3017,
      "EditedText": "We have to budget for both."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 3020,
      "EditedText": "I accept that a significant proportion of the money is for maintenance. You have already explained the significance of the road—it is the main route, and no one disputes that—but I am concerned that we have tied up so much money for 30 years. If we are constrained by a fixed budget, which the Scottish Executive is, there will be no flexibility to do other things. I do not see evidence anywhere in this report of a comparison of affordability with a fixed budget.Indeed, some of the answers you gave to Mr Wilson earlier indicate that the methodology that is being used to make the assessment in terms of value for money is less than robust. He asked you quite specific questions to which you did not give an answer. You were asked what the variability on the £17 million was and you said that you could not quantify it. You have been forced to make a judgment about whether this is an appropriate method of funding, but your judgment does not take into account its affordability in terms of the overall budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 3025,
      "EditedText": "I would like to consider the part of the report that is concerned with the procurement process. It seems that this was an innovative process, particularly in the way that two bids were short-listed for a second round of bidding. Was that to ensure that there was a level playing field and that unconditional bids were received? I am interested in what led to that decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 3027,
      "EditedText": "That is helpful, Mr MacKenzie. I thank you. That leads on to consideration of the additional costs. My colleague, Mr Macdonald, will want to question you more specifically on costs to the department.Considering the additional cost to which the bidders were subjected, there was a risk that one of them might have dropped out at that stage. I am interested, for the sake of future practice, in whether it is proposed to accept the report's recommendation that consideration should be given to reimbursing bidders' costs, to try to ensure that genuine commercial tenderers are not deterred from the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 3033,
      "EditedText": "We would not have produced a fairly sophisticated public sector comparator, for a start. That would have been unnecessary. We would still have required the additional work that we found was necessary on the traffic projections—to know how much load this road was going to take—although we would not have required that for the same purpose of shadow tolling. We would still have required whatever the extra cost turned out to be, in those circumstances, for the English section.In the budget calculations in figure 11, we were able to build on experience of design and build projects using conventional procurement, and on our experience of the latest type of operation and maintenance contracts that we have. Otherwise, everything in figure 11 would still have been required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 3034,
      "EditedText": "The public sector comparator was the one thing that you identified as incurring an additional cost. What share of the total outturn do you estimate that would account for?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3037",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 3037,
      "EditedText": "No, because that amount includes all the items that you see in figure 11: the additional work that arose from the second round of bidding, which I mentioned to Miss Goldie; the addition of the English section, although we might have contemplated that under conventional procurement; the verification of the statutory orders; and the overrun on the production of tender documents. Of course, there would still have been a tendering cost with conventional procurement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 3043,
      "EditedText": "When we consider whether a proposition represents value for money, we always disregard the sunk costs so that, by the time the final bids are in, much of that expenditure would already have been spent one way or another. Therefore, that did not come into the assessment of the bids when they were finally made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 3045,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 3050,
      "EditedText": "They can bring the fruits of long experience. The discipline that is imposed on a contractor by the people from whom he has borrowed money, the monitoring that is applied and the finance mechanisms that exist between him and them, appear to drive that contractor to meet delivery times, to contain costs and to meet specifications in a way that has not traditionally been experienced by the public sector in its dealings with contractors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 3053,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is the result of their experience of knowing what level of risk they can pass on to investors, and of balancing the optimum level of risk with the amount of scrutiny they need to devote to the project to give investors confidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 3061,
      "EditedText": "The figure of £163 million breaks down into £93 million of construction expenditure and £70 million of maintenance—current expenditure. Within that £70 million, £38 million is for routine and winter maintenance and £32 million is for other current expenditure, including the shadow toll payments. The current expenditure does not come out of the £93 million for the construction and improvement of motorways and trunk roads."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 3068,
      "EditedText": "The connection is that—however it was done—the project came in £17 million below the public sector comparator, which had no financing cost, despite the fact that the private financing cost £33 million. That is not a fact that can simply be ignored."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 3069,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to risk management."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 3077,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C3078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 3078,
      "EditedText": "A provision has been built in to compensate Autolink, for example, on the assumption that we might enter the world of real tolls. How is it possible to make an informed decision on quantification of such compensation, when it is so unpredictable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 3084,
      "EditedText": "I call a very patient Paul Martin to continue on risk management."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 3086,
      "EditedText": "The current estimate is still about £7 million—£7.6 million. It is marginally variable because of what, in the household analogy, is called snagging. We will not sign the certificate for the project until the final snagging has been carried out. That has an effect on how soon we start paying the full shadow tolls. We have been informed that all the work required to certify the road was completed by last Friday. Mr Howison hopes to go down to Beattock tomorrow to sign for the project, so your question is timely.The effect of earlier completion was assessed for us—it is one of the recommendations in the report—by our adviser, Scott Wilson, which reckoned that the benefits are between £5 million and £9 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 3089,
      "EditedText": "Can you be specific about where that £7 million, which we no longer have in our control, has been offset?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 3090,
      "EditedText": "Bear it in mind that, in any given year, the amount with which one starts each maintenance project is flexible. If we thought that we were running out of money, we would rephase the timetable of maintenance schemes, to reduce the claim on the total budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 3091,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on from that, I want to clarify whether you have overrun by more than £7 million. Is that not the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3092",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 3092,
      "EditedText": "We have not overrun, because we have not started to spend it yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3093",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 3093,
      "EditedText": "However, the project has overrun by £7 million and we have lost £7 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 3097,
      "EditedText": "The other question that I would like to ask relates to the additional costs that would have been incurred under traditional procurement, which are not comparable with those of the contractor. Is it fair to say that those costs would have been incurred under a publicly funded project, so the marginal benefit of PFI is very slim indeed? We need more details on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C3099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 3099,
      "EditedText": "The difference between a PFI project and a public project."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 48,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 3100,
      "EditedText": "That is the £17 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 3102,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean the additional costs of earlier completion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 3104,
      "EditedText": "Conventional contracts often include built-in bonus payments for contractors. In this, the additional costs would depend on whether we had included such bonuses, had we gone for a conventional contract.We recognise that finishing early is worth considerable sums, especially in this case, as a result of removing the road works, improving driving conditions and opening up the road as a motorway. It is not a straightforward change from an all-purpose road to a motorway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9987631+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 3106,
      "EditedText": "All cost-benefit analysis is on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 48,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 3108,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions for the open session?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 3110,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we could pull that out from such a short period of monitoring. A whole range of factors will affect the traffic on this particular road. Fuel charges will be one of them. Broadly speaking, traffic levels are in line with the predictions that we made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 3111,
      "EditedText": "One factor that has emerged is that the Executive's policy on lower car usage will have an impact in time. Alternatives to shadow tolling will have an additional attraction if they can be made to work and if the policy is not to be inconsistent with the Executive's integrated transport policy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C3114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 3114,
      "EditedText": "It will be £728 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C3115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 3115,
      "EditedText": "If the Government's policies to reduce car use and transfer freight to rail succeed over the next 30 years, will that save us money on the project?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Howison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 3119,
      "EditedText": "In design and build contracts, we have moved to help contractors alter the specification in that way, to help provide savings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 3124,
      "EditedText": "I will indulge myself by asking a quick question. The first 78 rpm record that I bought was Lonnie Donegan singing \"Cumberland Gap\".  However, the Cumberland Gap remains a residual problem. I would not like that area to become a notorious accident spot, which is a possibility, given what is happening elsewhere. Can you indicate when that residual problem will be solved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 3125,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid that that is not within our gift—it is entirely a matter for the Highways Agency. Nevertheless, the Scottish Executive ministers have influence in such matters and will doubtless make their concerns known."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 3126,
      "EditedText": "I hope that they will so do and that they will read the Official Report. Is the return on capital figure of 6 per cent realistic? Should it be reviewed as a standard?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C3130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 3130,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. No doubt, we will consider those matters further. I thank Mr MacKenzie and Mr Howison for their detailed and informed responses in what was a long session. They are free to go. We will take a one-minute break."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C3131",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 26 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 16
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-26T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "A74(M)/M74",
      "HeadingID": 48,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 3131,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:09.0143941+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 624354,
      "EditedText": "I agree. I have read through all the information we have here and it seems that Jackie conducted herself in a manner in which we would all hope to conduct ourselves when accepting or declining invitations. She is to be commended for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 624360,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624361",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 624361,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to Henry McLeish MSP. Does anybody want to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624363",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 624363,
      "EditedText": "So it is the same as in the first case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 624364,
      "EditedText": "I move that the committee has no further interest in allegations made about Mr McLeish. As in the case of Jackie Baillie, we should not proceed. We are satisfied that he has behaved at all times in relation to this project in the way in which we would expect of ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624367",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 624367,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to Kenny MacAskill. Does anyone want to comment?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624373",
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      "ID": 3474
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 624373,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other points?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624374",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18732,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 624374,
      "EditedText": "On the matter of Jack McConnell's diaries, I, like Karen, think that we need to ask Mr McConnell to come before us to clarify some of the points that are made in the report. We also need to ask Christina Marshall, Jack's constituency secretary, to come before the committee. We can then present points about the diaries, notebooks, the official invitation, and contacts with Beattie Media. Mr McConnell is on record as saying that he wants to come to the committee and to co-operate fully with it.Although we have questions to ask Mr McConnell, we should also give him the chance to respond to this committee about the allegations that have been made against him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624375",
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      "ID": 3474
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18732,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 624375,
      "EditedText": "We have a proposal that Christina Marshall and Jack McConnell should be invited. Is everyone agreed on that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624380",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 624380,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on, I wanted to put a question on annex 1 to Mr Duncan."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624384",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 624384,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624387",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Duncan: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624387,
      "EditedText": "That is the understanding I received from Mr Barr when I asked him which number he had rung."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624390",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 624390,
      "EditedText": "There are diaries, notebooks, official invitations and records of contact with Beattie Media. Do members want us to take a specific line of questioning or one that is more generalised?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624393",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 624393,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful for us to ask a little about the standard procedures that are followed."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624394",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 624394,
      "EditedText": "In relation to Mr McConnell's member of staff—Christina Marshall—the only interest that this committee has is with regard to the invitation that was extended to Mr McConnell. We need to be focused, because the committee's primary interest is in members of the Scottish Parliament. More general questioning of Mr McConnell would be appropriate, but the questioning of other members of staff should be quite specific."
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  {
    "ID": "C624396",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624396,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624397",
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 624397,
      "EditedText": "I want to emphasise that once we have completed the gathering of evidence, the written material that is relevant to Mr McConnell will be made available to the public.Are there any other matters arising from agenda item 1? Is everyone happy?I should also reiterate the time scale for this matter. It is important that we have two strands to this investigation, as I have been saying throughout. The first is that it must be comprehensive and thorough; the other is that it must be speedy. We are achieving both of those objectives. We are keeping to an appropriate timetable and if we gather in all the evidence—hopefully by next week or the end of this week—we should be in a position to consider a report on this issue and publish it as soon as possible."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624398",
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    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 624398,
      "EditedText": "We move on to agenda item 2, which is the initial consideration of the handling of letters from Ben Wallace MSP."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ID": 18733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 624401,
      "EditedText": "I take it that you have begun discussion of this agenda item?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ID": 18733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 624403,
      "EditedText": "I wish to put on record my very strong view that Ben Wallace has conducted himself inappropriately in the manner in which this complaint has been submitted, with regard to it being released to a national newspaper before it was presented to the convener of this committee. We should make it clear to all MSPs that, in future, complaints against another member should be brought to this committee in the first instance and not second hand after it appears, by way of speculation, in newspapers. This committee should be allowed to do its job of holding members of the Scottish Parliament properly to account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ID": 18733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 624404,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Karen. I think that is agreed. We need to ensure that MSPs appreciate the proper procedure that should be followed if a serious complaint such as this is made against another MSP.All members have received copies of the two letters of complaint from Ben Wallace regarding the conduct of Mike Watson. I was going to say that I am disappointed that they have already been aired in the press, but Karen has said that for me. I want to record the fact that this committee expects complaints to be made privately in the first instance.The letters raise concerns about the conduct of an MSP in relation to members' interests and the execution of parliamentary duties. Consideration of those matters falls squarely within our remit. I note, however, that one matter on which Mr Wallace comments—the granting of a certificate of legislative competence for a member's bill—is not within the remit of this committee. It is for the Presiding Officer to decide on the issuing of a certificate of legislative competence.However, it is within our remit to consider the other matters raised by Mr Wallace's letters and I propose that we do so. Do we all agree that the matters fall within our remit and that we should examine them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18733,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 624405,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ID": 18733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 624407,
      "EditedText": "I endorse that. The first thing we must do is put the allegations to Mike and ask for his response. Then we can weigh up the situation. I suggest that we try to move fairly quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ID": 18733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 624412,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we should discuss the substantive issues now. We need to know the facts and, in accordance with the principles of natural justice, Lord Watson should be given the chance to reply before we come to any conclusions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ID": 18733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 624413,
      "EditedText": "If everybody is happy about that, that brings us to the end of agenda item 2. As there is no further business, I close the meeting. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 624352,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon. The first item on the agenda is the report that members of the committee requested at our meeting on 8 October. Members received the report at the end of last week. I would like to convey the committee's thanks to those involved in preparing the report, especially to Malcolm Duncan.The report outlines the steps that the committee took in the earlier stages of this inquiry. It includes material requested from ministers and others; the results of the examination of Alex Barr's contacts book; material relating to Jackie Baillie MSP and the Loch Lomond shore project; material relating to Henry McLeish MSP and the same project; diaries and other material relating to Jack McConnell MSP; and a statement by Kenny MacAskill MSP. Since our remit is to examine the conduct of MSPs, the best approach might be to consider the evidence that has been provided to us on each MSP in turn, so we will consider, first, the evidence on Jackie Baillie MSP."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 624353,
      "EditedText": "I have read Mr Duncan's report on Jackie Baillie very carefully. The process by which she accepted the invitation seems impeccable. I do not know what the rest of my colleagues feel about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 624356,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that the committee has no further interest in the case of Jackie Baillie. I certainly do not think that we will call Jackie Baillie to the committee to give further evidence, as she has no case to answer. We should conclude that aspect of the investigation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 624357,
      "EditedText": "I think that everybody accepts that there is no further case to answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 624358,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we should make public the information that we have on Jackie Baillie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 624365,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 624366,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 624369,
      "EditedText": "Indeed. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18732,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 624370,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 624371,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to matters relating to Jack McConnell. Does anyone want to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 624372,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of issues that the committee may wish to consider further, particularly given press speculation this morning and at the weekend. I therefore move that we invite Jack McConnell to be questioned by members of this committee. The issues that we would like to discuss surround the invitation by Beattie Media to the finance director of the year awards dinner next February and whether that meeting was dealt with appropriately by him and his staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 624376,
      "EditedText": "The report that we received on the written information that we asked to be examined in respect of Jack McConnell should not be published until after the minister and Christina Marshall have appeared before us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 624378,
      "EditedText": "It is in everybody's interests that we try to conclude our investigation as quickly as possible. We should, therefore, hear the minister on the earliest possible date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Malcolm Duncan (Adviser): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 624383,
      "EditedText": "One number is that of Mr McConnell's constituency office in Wishaw and one is a Stirling/Bridge of Allan number which, I believe, is his home number. The third number is a mobile phone number, which may be personal. However, I have not followed that up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 624388,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions for Malcolm Duncan?Before we move on, I want to re-emphasise that when we write to Christina Marshall and Jack McConnell to ask them to give evidence to us on Wednesday, we should clarify what line of questioning we want to take. Would anyone like to suggest what line of questioning we should take with Christina Marshall?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 624392,
      "EditedText": "That would be only fair. The reason I am labouring the point is that we have to give the witnesses notice of what we want to ask them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 624395,
      "EditedText": "That point is well made. With Christina Marshall we will focus specifically on the invitation incident, but will take a wider approach with Jack McConnell.I would like to make the point that previous witnesses in this inquiry have been required to give evidence under oath. Are we agreed that that should also be the case with the witnesses we are calling for Wednesday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18733,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 624400,
      "EditedText": "That declaration of interest is appreciated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18733,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 624402,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ID": 18733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 624406,
      "EditedText": "In a sense, the issues are clear. We need to deal with the substantive matters as quickly as possible, but we must first put the allegations to the member concerned. I suggest that we indicate a time frame for dealing with the matter as soon as possible, and certainly not later than our next meeting. We should invite Mike Watson to respond to the issues that have been raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18733,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 624411,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point. We shall deal with the idea of an invitation when we have received the letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Monday 25 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18731,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 624351,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 624355,
      "EditedText": "Is everybody happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 624359,
      "EditedText": "Where we have decided that we have completed the evidence on individual MSPs, the report's findings on them should be made publicly available later today. Is everybody happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18732,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 624362,
      "EditedText": "I have read the report very carefully; it is clear that Henry McLeish acted altogether appropriately with regard to the Loch Lomond shore project. The event was the launch of a major project which a minister with responsibility for tourism would be expected to attend. His conduct was in this case altogether appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 624368,
      "EditedText": "Mr MacAskill has said that he has not spoken to Kevin Reid inappropriately. I think that the committee will accept that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 624377,
      "EditedText": "If I understand members correctly, what we are saying is that we have finished taking evidence on Jackie Baillie, Henry McLeish and Kenny MacAskill, and that all the evidence that is available to us should be published in a report. However, because we are still investigating the allegations that have been made against Jack McConnell, that evidence should be published not at this time, but after we have concluded our inquiries. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 624379,
      "EditedText": "I am moving on to that now. We are scheduled to meet on the morning of Wednesday 27 October. I propose that the clerks issue invitations to Christina Marshall and Jack McConnell to come before the committee then, so that we can question them further on the evidence. We should try to move quickly, but also comprehensively. We will, of course, take things as they come—it all depends on whether Christina Marshall and Jack McConnell are available on 27 October. Is everybody happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 624381,
      "EditedText": "I was about to say to members that although we have all read the report, we have an opportunity to question Malcolm on any point. Would you like to start, Tricia?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 624382,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm, in annex 1, paragraph 4, you say that you have examined Alex Barr's contacts book and mention that there are three telephone numbers for Mr McConnell, none of which is an Edinburgh number or a Scottish Parliament number. Could you tell me, therefore, what the numbers are? Are they in fact Mr McConnell's numbers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 624385,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions that members would like to ask Malcolm, or is everybody happy with the report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 624386,
      "EditedText": "The final sentence of annex 1, point 7, reads:\"It is understood that Mr Barr's call to Miss Marshall discussed before the Committee was to Miss Marshall at the Constituency Office.\"Where did that information come from, Malcolm?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 624389,
      "EditedText": "Our questioning of both witnesses should concentrate on the invitation that is mentioned in the transcript from The Observer and on how it was issued. We should be very specific about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents Received",
      "HeadingID": 18732,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18732,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 624391,
      "EditedText": "In the case of Mr McConnell, the central allegation is that Beattie Media had undue influence over him, so we need also to explore the contacts that Mr McConnell has had with officials of Beattie Media. We have heard from the representatives of Beattie Media and The Observer; it is only right and proper that we give Mr McConnell the opportunity to tell the committee about the extent and the level of the contacts that he has had with Beattie Media."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 624399,
      "EditedText": "As most people know, I am involved with Mike Watson's member's bill. It is my intention to take no part in any discussion of Ben Wallace's letters, or in discussion of any complaints against Mike Watson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ID": 18733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 624408,
      "EditedText": "Although speed is of the essence, I remind members that our next meeting is scheduled for Wednesday, which may be too early to handle this matter. We should handle it at the next meeting after that and I will suggest that the clerks write to Lord Watson outlining the complaints that have been made against him and giving him the opportunity and time to respond. Are members in agreement about that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ID": 18733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 624409,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that Lord Watson be asked for a response by the end of this week. I would also like to offer Lord Watson an invitation to attend our meeting. Are members content to leave it at that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18733,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 624410,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure if we want to proceed to an invitation. Initially, we want him to respond to the allegations. After that, the committee should decide whether we would like him to attend a meeting. If, in his written evidence, he expresses a wish to attend, the committee will consider that in due course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3474
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 18733,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18733,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 624414,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 14:23."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5158915+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3224
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Monday 25 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17633,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 579220,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 15:34"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3224
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Monday 25 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17633,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17633,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 579224,
      "EditedText": "Yes. To ensure sensible discussion in public of the report we would have to issue copies of that report to the press and to the public. As it stands, the report that has been written by the clerks suggests what might be the committee's view on the short inquiry into amnesic shellfish poisoning.It would give that report undue status to issue it in its draft form as that would suggest that the committee has a particular view. We do not know what that view is until the committee has had a chance to discuss the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3224
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Monday 25 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17633,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17633,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 579225,
      "EditedText": "Is that procedurally correct, given the slight problems that there have been with private meetings in the recent past? If that has been checked and it is procedurally correct to do so, and if everybody else is happy, I am quite happy to continue in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3224
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Monday 25 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17633,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 17633,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Alex Johnstone): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 579221,
      "EditedText": "We will begin this meeting by discussing the draft report on amnesic shellfish poisoning, which has been written by the clerks. I suggest that consideration of the committee's draft report on the impact on the fisheries sector of amnesic shellfish poisoning should be in private—we are dealing with a draft and it is not appropriate for anything other than the committee's agreed wording to be quoted in public. Do members agree?I am anxious that members understand why we should proceed in private. Are all members aware of the reasons why it is appropriate that we progress in private at this stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3224
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Monday 25 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17633,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17633,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 579226,
      "EditedText": "I am satisfied with the reason for proceeding in that way and am willing to accept it. It would therefore be appropriate for us to continue this discussion in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3224
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Monday 25 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17633,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 579223,
      "EditedText": "Would you, Richard, like to go over the explanation that you gave to me? It was much smoother than my version of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3224
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Monday 25 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17633,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 579227,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:37."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6731367+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 25 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3224
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-25T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Monday 25 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17633,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17633,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 579222,
      "EditedText": "I would not mind hearing why we should go ahead in private when we are not releasing the report. We are merely discussing what is in it and whether we agree to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jim Hunter (Chairman, Highlands and Islands Enterprise): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 155460,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, convener. First, on behalf of those in HIE and many other people in the Highlands and Islands, I warmly welcome your decision to come north on this occasion. We are delighted to be part of what is—as you say—something of an historic occasion. Perhaps we will see you again in the Highlands and Islands in the future.We are pleased to have the opportunity to give a brief account of Highlands and Islands Enterprise's work and to consider some of the challenges and opportunities in the Highlands and Islands. Many of you will know Highlands and Islands Enterprise's chief executive, Iain Robertson, who is sitting on my right; we have been joined by Ralph Palmer, the director of skills development at Highlands and Islands Enterprise, and by Tracey Slaven, head of corporate planning.With the committee's permission, Iain will give a brief presentation on our current work and on some of the issues that we confront. We will then be happy to deal with any of the committee's questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 155464,
      "EditedText": "We have been fortunate to receive sustained funding from successive Governments, which we value greatly. However, with pressure on Government and throughout the public sector, funds are hard to come by. As a development agency, we are being asked increasingly, and rightly, to squeeze as much value for money as possible from the public pound. That is what we have sought to do. Our funds have tailed off in real terms, but we have managed to produce predominantly improving results across the board for the public purse. It is becoming harder to do so, however. We cannot sustain improved results with lower real-terms funding. It must be borne in mind that there is a connection between the two."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 155466,
      "EditedText": "We have become good at leveraging resources from, and working with, other bodies. We have had to become good at financial engineering in our projects and at saying no to the cases that are less valuable for the area, which does not always make us popular. Across the board, the opportunity to work more closely with businesses, through the increasing contact between the LECs and local business, means that we are increasingly able to get better results for each pound from the private sector. We face the hard task of driving down our contribution to each project, grant and situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tracey Slaven (Head of Corporate Planning, Highlands and Islands Enterprise): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 155474,
      "EditedText": "The formula share affects six of the LECs significantly and, as members will appreciate, the Western Isles LEC is most affected. We start from the population bases. Some LECs cover fragile areas that suffer either economically, demographically—from having an aging population—or geographically, from being islands off islands, for instance. Those LECs gain 0.1 percentage points of the share of our total budget for each 10,000 people living in those areas. That resource is diverted directly from Inverness. If we allocated the budget simply according to population share, the Inverness and Nairn LEC would get around 20 per cent of the budget. The formula share gives it only 8 per cent, so there is a big diversion of resources away from the core area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 155482,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the concept of voluntary swinging around of resources. I would be fascinated to be a fly on the wall at some of the discussions or telephone calls that go on about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 155484,
      "EditedText": "Those answers have covered some of the points that I wanted to ask about. On objective 1 transition funding, I was at yesterday's European Committee, where the second draft of the consultative draft plan on the use of those funds to promote economic development in the Highlands was discussed with the Minister for Finance. The convener of that committee spoke about tensions between Highlands and Islands Enterprise and those involved in drawing up the draft plan. What comments do the witnesses have about those alleged tensions? The draft plan identifies two strategic objectives. The first is to raise the gross domestic product of the Highlands in the context of the European average, given that the Highlands is the only part of Europe that will benefit from successful UK negotiations on objective 1 transitional funding. The second aim, which is crucial, is to address the disparity within the region in terms of GDP. What has been said about arguments within Highlands and Islands Enterprise about need and opportunity is interesting, but I would like to hear more about how Highlands and Islands Enterprise would address disparity in GDP within the region."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 155486,
      "EditedText": "The convener of the European Committee mentioned tensions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 155490,
      "EditedText": "One of the key challenges for the Highlands and Islands—especially the west coast—is business sustainability. The business start-up rate is usually good, but it has proved hard to sustain the businesses. I have been involved with the enterprise network and I know that it is easy to obtain the initial capital but hard to prevent the businesses from closing down after two or three years. Have you any figures on the number of businesses that are supported by the enterprise network and the length of time that they have been sustained? How does their sustainability compare with that of businesses that are not supported by the enterprise network?Allan Wilson mentioned objective 1, but if Inverness were taken out of the equation, the Highlands and Islands would still qualify for objective 1 funding. During the next plan period, how will the key areas of the region be dealt with? The GDP rates of the western part of the Highlands and Islands—the poorest part of Scotland—are sitting away down at 70 per cent of the average.The digital telecommunications network has been one of the big projects undertaken in the Highlands and Islands. Does that network need to be upgraded or are you confident that it is up to the job? There are problems with the Kinlochleven call centre scheme because the digital network cannot meet the needs of the company involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Slaven: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 155500,
      "EditedText": "It is more like 15 per cent or 20 per cent, if all the programmes are combined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155502",
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      "ID": 822
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    },
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 155502,
      "EditedText": "We cannot tell. We are not allowed to assist some of those businesses. For instance, we would be unable to assist a newsagent that is two doors along from another one. This is a difficult area to measure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hunter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 155509,
      "EditedText": "We are well aware that this is a major issue for us—the Scottish Executive is also aware of it and has drawn our attention to it. The fragile areas, particularly on the west coast—although not exclusively, because areas such as south-east Sutherland and the outlying islands of Orkney and Shetland are also affected—are high priorities for us.I emphasise that we do not regard these problems as insoluble or eternal; we are convinced that they can be cracked. We are equally convinced, of course, that the job is not easy. However, I draw the committee's attention to the fact that some areas on the west coast that were, not too long ago, as or more depressed than the rest—I am thinking particularly of Lochaber and Skye—are now extremely successful. Their economies have diversified to a great extent and they have rapidly expanding populations. We believe that that success story can be replicated elsewhere, and we are committed to endeavouring to achieve that. We are aware that there are particular challenges in George Lyon's area. In these discussions there is always a focus on the western isles—quite understandably—but some parts of Argyll, Kintyre and the islands have equally serious problems. Those are a high priority with us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 155511,
      "EditedText": "The Highland region as a whole suffers high transport costs. That is true not just of roads, but of ferries. Some people live on islands that lie off the coast of other islands, so they have to take two ferries to get home. The planes are expensive, ferry fares are expensive and petrol is expensive. That is a significant burden for an area that is trying to grapple its way back up. The loss of the Heathrow link, for example, was significant. Traffic on the route has been down as a result.The fuel duty escalator disadvantages the region, because the percentage of car users is higher in rural areas. It is particularly high in the Highlands, as people have to travel long distances for basic amenities such as the bank, the doctor or the shop. This is an extremely important issue, and we would hugely welcome anything that the Government did to mitigate fuel costs in rural areas.If there are road tolls, even in the south, that will put up the cost of goods coming north, which is a problem for us. On the other hand, if road tolls create funds that are ring-fenced and can be used for the benefit of the road system throughout the country—particularly in the north—we in the Highlands might benefit from a pool of cash that was raised in the south. However, I am sure that the south would have something to say about that.We do not have a problem with road congestion. We may get a little antsy in the summer, when there are caravans on the A9, but by and large we do not get traffic jams of any significance in the Highlands. We do not have much of a pollution problem from the road system. The upside of road tolling for us is that we might get access to funding. The downside would be a considerable extra cost.More generally, we are 100 per cent behind the idea of a Highlands area transport authority. We have been working with the local authorities on that, and we would like it to be discussed further at the next meeting of the Highlands and Islands Convention. A transport authority would be a good move."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 155515,
      "EditedText": "You mention the opportunities for inward investment and report that you have had some success in that area. Obviously, you have achieved that against the background of remoteness from the central belt and centres of population, of high transport costs, and of a sparse population. Will you say a little more about how you have managed that and about any lessons that you think Scotland as a whole could learn, as Scotland is remote from the main centres of population and the main markets in Europe? Is there something that we could learn from your experiences in attracting inward investment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ralph Palmer (Director of Developing Skills, Highlands and Islands Enterprise): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 155525,
      "EditedText": "On the downturn in our expenditure in skills development, we have to take into account last year's situation. There has been a reduction in the training-for-work budget as a direct result of the new deal, which now covers the 18 to 24 age group. We have put a lot of effort into supporting the new deal at a local level and in partnership. That accounts for quite a chunk of the reduction. Our training-for-work budget is about half what it was six years ago.The skillseekers programme has had a 10 per cent reduction over the same period of time, but it has been most important to raise the quality of the skillseekers product, and to ensure that it is acceptable not only for the young people who want to participate in the programme, but for the employer.On the Scottish university for industry, we are looking forward, we hope, to an expansion in the take-up of adults going into further education and lifelong learning. The university should be a big stimulus for that, and can build on the University of the Highlands and Islands. The colleges are all ready for it, and the trick will be to get as many people in their later life who are currently not involved in education or training to take part."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hunter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 155528,
      "EditedText": "We welcome the Scottish Executive's proposals for land reform. As a network, we have been involved in such matters for a considerable time. Through our community land unit, we have a track record of dealing with several of those proposals. I want to emphasise the positive side. We do not view the land reform effort as separate from our other activities. In the media, and in other discussion of the issue, the focus, from time to time, tends to be on what is loosely described as the removal of bad landlords. We view that in a rather different context. We are trying to create a new range of opportunities for communities—not always in our more fragile areas, although most of the more widely publicised cases have been in those areas.I also emphasise that this initiative—the work of the community land unit—has not been concerned solely with the headline cases of Knoydart, Eigg and Assynt, which have involved extensive areas of land, sometimes whole islands. Of the many cases that the community land unit is handling, which are coming in all the time from communities, often the area of land in question is relatively small. The community land unit is a new, or different, mechanism for allowing communities and businesses within communities to access land that otherwise might not have been available.It is worth emphasising that a part of this effort must be to continue the good work that was done by the previous Administration in transferring publicly owned land into something approximating to directly community-controlled land. One such initiative was successful not far from here, at Abriachan on Loch Ness. That involved the transfer of land from public ownership, in the shape of the state agency, the Forestry Commission, to a local community. That is all part of the package.You mentioned sporting estates, which clearly have some value to the Highlands and Islands' economy. Inevitably, in the politics that surround this issue, claims are made, on both sides of the argument, which are exaggerated. We recognise that sporting estates are of value. As long as blood sports continue to be a part of what is available to us, that fact will remain. However, I emphasise that there is no necessary correlation between being able to use sport as a source of revenue and the current ownership arrangements. There could be income from sport under different ownership arrangements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Palmer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 155533,
      "EditedText": "Young people going on to skillseekers programmes have a wide choice of vocational qualifications, as I have said. There are issues about those people aged over 18 and about people in the workforce. Through our discretionary training programme, we support a range of qualifications that are not SVQs, including short courses that are totally work-dependent and in line with both business community and individual wishes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 155534,
      "EditedText": "But my question is, why are not those courses offered to the 16 to 18-year-olds?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 155537,
      "EditedText": "On tourism and the question on why we are losing market share, worldwide opportunities are available to an increasingly discerning tourist. The choices are legion and, as a result of those choices, we have lost a lot of home market, or domestic, tourism. People who used to holiday in Scotland with their families now go abroad. The foreign tourism spend has gone up, more or less, every year and so we are gaining a little from that. However, the numbers are not significant and account for less than 25 per cent of the Scottish tourism industry—the high pound has cost us dearly these last few years.We have focused our efforts on raising the quality of the tourism product in the Highlands. We have made grants to tourism businesses, which we have made dependent on those businesses raising their quality under quality categorising and on undertaking Investors in People. Tourism businesses were, at one time, notorious for not being particularly interested in the predominantly itinerant workforce that they employed. We are trying to increase the attractiveness of the tourism industry to local people, to raise quality standards and to increase job opportunities in the industry through training, working closely with the Scottish Tourist Board and Scottish Enterprise.The Scottish tourism industry must take the lead more. Government funding is available and is a significant prop for the industry, but the industry must make the running. Few industries in the country receive a similar level of support. We must help to professionalise the industry and make it take more control of its own destiny, so that it will become increasingly less reliant on Government funding, although that funding is necessary for international and other major marketing campaigns. We also need more niche marketing of products such as golf, walking, sailing and the other facilities that Scotland has to offer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 155539,
      "EditedText": "Frankly, the University of the Highlands and Islands can solve the colleges' problems. By working together, they can create economies of scale, becoming more efficient in the longer term and better able to secure resources from a wider variety of millennium, European and other opportunities that will be available to them.Mary Scanlon raised the issue of grants and the old question of the subsidy culture. The Highlands does not have a subsidy culture and it has not had such a culture for many years. One may as well say that London has a subsidy culture because the underground is subsidised. In the Highlands, we have been trying to maximise the opportunities that the public purse offers to allow people to help themselves, which involves encouraging people to be more aggressive, business-like and open to suggestions. While that approach is working, it will not happen overnight. The Highlands is pulling itself up by its bootstraps and will make a major contribution to this country in the longer term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 155547,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Archie MacDonald (Senior Investment Manager, Western Isles Enterprise): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 155552,
      "EditedText": "My name is Archie MacDonald, and I am not the chief executive of Western Isles Enterprise. Unfortunately, Donnie Macaulay was called to a court hearing in Edinburgh, so I am here in his stead. I offer his apologies.As has been said already, the western isles is probably the most fragile area in the Highlands and Islands. We have 12 inhabited islands and a population of about 28,000. The main economic activities in the area are fishing, fish farming, crofting, tourism, oil fabrication, Harris tweed and the public sector, which employs about 45 per cent of people in work and is a very important sector for us. We have three population centres in the area—Stornoway, Tarbert and Balivanich in the Uists.Among the issues facing the western isles is the current dip in oil fabrication, which was alluded to earlier. We have Lewis Offshore Ltd just outside Stornoway, which employed 400 people at its peak. There are no people working there presently, although some of the workers are contracted out to Northern Ireland.The tourism sector is steady, but could be doing better. The fish farming industry is on a plateau, although there is still a strong investment commitment from some of the major producers in the area. Fortunately, the western isles have not suffered from problems with infectious salmon anaemia—we are clear of that. The scallop catching industry is effectively closed in the western isles, because of amnesic shellfish poisoning. That is having a direct impact on fish catchers, fish processors and fish sellers, and on the employment and the families that depend on the industry.Harris tweed is also experiencing difficulties because of the global textiles situation, the strong pound and changing fashions. As an enterprise company, we have invested many millions of pounds in helping to resurrect or preserve that industry for the hoped-for upturn.We are pushing information technology very hard at the moment, because of the fact that we are disadvantaged by distance from markets and geographical and transport difficulties. IT is one sector that is not penalised by being based in an island area. We have already set up one major inward investment company in Stornoway. Another company that deals with home workers and teleworkers is looking for work. That is one of the lights on the horizon for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 155553,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. I would like to open up the discussion to questioning about the work of local enterprise companies. One of the starting points of our inquiry is a concern—widely shared by members of the committee—about the complexity and congestion of service delivery in economic development, vocational training and company and business support services at a local level. Do you believe that that concern is justified in the Highlands and Islands area, from a client's perspective? By a client, I mean a 16-year-old looking for guidance on employment prospects, or a business looking for support. Is that map congested in the Highlands and Islands or could this inquiry clarify the way in which such services are delivered?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 155558,
      "EditedText": "That is right. A young person might go for a job with an employer that has a skillseekers contract with Ross and Cromarty Enterprise. That would be one route into our services. Or, in the IT service sector, for example, people may want to access employment opportunities at Cap Gemini in Dingwall. Our skills development team has worked directly with that company to identify training needs for potential employees, has devised a training programme specifically for that purpose and has offered it in various parts of Ross and Cromarty. The quid pro quo is that any person who goes on the training course has the opportunity to have an interview with the company; that provides a direct route to employment and training services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 155560,
      "EditedText": "That is certainly the case in Ross and Cromarty. Highland Council has a local area committee and we work closely with its local office in Dingwall. A local economic forum meets members of our board to discuss matters of mutual interest, but we work in partnership with the local authority on delivering economic development activity. Highland Council, with its very limited local budgets, is responsible for some activities and we are responsible for others. Our collaboration is concerned with making the two remits work together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 155565,
      "EditedText": "As Iain Robertson said, the chief executives of the network meet every two months, not just in Inverness but throughout the Highlands and Islands. Iain mentioned the account manager system, which was piloted in my area in 1993-94 and runs to this day. We developed an account manager system to ensure that we had a customer focus on the way in which we were dealing with businesses so that we could integrate the business grants, skills development and community development services. I gave a presentation to the chief executives meeting and to the HIE board about our account manager system. I was subsequently invited to several LECs in the HIE network to speak to their staff and give examples of how the account manager system has helped us in Lochaber. Some LECs have now picked that up. That is an example of how we operate as a network by sharing good practice. As Iain mentioned, LECs are also able to access services from HIE, such as legal and personnel services. We also use HIE's audit service, a standard part of which involves examining methods of good practice and benchmarking in audit provision within the network."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 155570,
      "EditedText": "So each training agency in your area would require to be validated by Western Isles Enterprise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 155572,
      "EditedText": "That might be a fairly expensive duplication of facility. Do you consider that there is scope for HIE to undertake a central validating process to try to minimise costs for the training provider and to save your resources?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 155576,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I shall deal with the first question first. There is no doubt that the responsibility for the contract and the budget that I have rests with me and my directors. I have tried to emphasise the fact that, as a network, we take a two-way approach. We are able to access some economies for certain services, which leaves us free to deliver grants and loans to businesses, and skills development to strengthen communities. We work within the same strategic framework that Iain Robertson mentioned—that of developing skills to strengthen communities and growing businesses. I am responsible for ensuring that due scrutiny is applied to all moneys that are awarded, that full audit procedures are adhered to and that payments are released. We have a finance department; we are audited by HIE and must provide our own accounting services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 155581,
      "EditedText": "To clarify, Mr MacDonald: in that exercise, where does the business community come in? You say that you consult the LEC board. What opportunity do the businesses in your area have to contribute to the process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 155585,
      "EditedText": "Is that a reaction to personal angst, rather than to a fault in the system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 155586,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I feel that that is what it is."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 155588,
      "EditedText": "Convener, I shall kick off on that one.Personally I have no difficulty at all with having a limit of, say, £50,000 on authority that is delegated to a local enterprise company. It is inevitable that there will be some sort of limit; we could spend all day debating what level would be appropriate. The important question, from a local perspective, is whether the project should be supported for the benefit of the community of Ross and Cromarty. If the answer is yes, and if our board feels that the answer is yes, the spending limit is just another part of the assessment procedure. Many of our colleagues in HIE in Inverness have a great deal of experience in assessing projects and considering particular cases. Their experience is drawn from throughout the Highlands; it is not limited to a particular geographical area. We can ask them for help at any stage in the assessment procedure. The delegated authority limit is simply another part of the assessment mechanism, as there has to be a given number—an amount of money—anyway. It is not a constraint that I have recognised."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 155589,
      "EditedText": "What is the delegated authority figure?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 155591,
      "EditedText": "Five zero thousand pounds?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 155594,
      "EditedText": "The point that I was trying to clarify is this: are there instances in which your board approves a project that is subsequently rejected further up the line? Although your board might think that a project is right for its area and recommend that the project should go ahead, you are not in a position to give it the okay. Might it then go before the board in Inverness and be rejected?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155596",
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    "Time": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
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      "EditedText": "Is that the case for everyone?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155604",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
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      "EditedText": "The operating plan is the core budget."
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  {
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      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 155607,
      "EditedText": "I am not quite sure that I understand the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 155608,
      "EditedText": "You use information from other LECs as a benchmark against which to measure your own performance in the same field. Is that done as a matter of routine and do you report it to the centre?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 155610,
      "EditedText": "Furthermore, at this time of year, an HIE director visits each LEC and gives a presentation to the board on the LEC's six-month performance against other LECs across a number of performance measures.As for the budgetary process, part of my role is to have an array of projects on the shelf that are ready for funding when money becomes available. For example, we were able to invest a further £300,000 in Arisaig causeway because we had done the preliminary work and had all the necessary permissions to spend the money when it became available. We were able to service 7 acres of site and to remove peat from land to make it ready for property development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 155611,
      "EditedText": "HIE's annual report gives details of some of the performance indicators for LECs. For example, the 1998-99 target number of business start-ups for Lochaber Ltd was eight and the outturn was nine. Is the range of targets listed in the report the sum total of business targets for LECs? Furthermore, are those targets sufficiently taxing for LECs? I know that business start-ups are tough, but a target of eight does not strike me as that ambitious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 155619,
      "EditedText": "It has not been my experience that we have been in competition with local companies. On the contrary, local companies have been talking to us about assistance with property expansion and developments, because the cost of doing it by themselves is quite prohibitive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 155620,
      "EditedText": "We need some clarification about that. In Argyll and the Islands, it is our experience that to attract inward investment, the property must already be there before a company can be persuaded to come and seriously consider relocating in a remote community. It is part of the sales pitch that the property is there and ready to go. That might be quite different from the agenda in central Scotland, where the property issue is not so important. Will you give us your view on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C155622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 155622,
      "EditedText": "I agree with my colleague, George Lyon, that we need to have already built the property, to attract a client or a customer. I want to share an experience that I had in my days as a member of Highland Council. Highlands and Islands Enterprise came to the council to say that it had a client that wanted to establish in or around Inverness and needed a decision on that day. A planning meeting was called, although we had no information about the identity of the client—it was top secret. We knew that they were offering 300 jobs for starters and that they needed planning permission today or they would disappear. No building was available. A site was chosen, planning approval was given and, with the support of HIE, the scheme was launched on the same day. That is one of the success stories of the Highlands and Islands and has supplied about 500 jobs, just up the road.That demonstrates that we must be innovative and receptive to what is happening. In many cases, if one were to try and attract a customer by saying that a site would be established in the next six to 12 months, it would not work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 155625,
      "EditedText": "Are you confident that the ability to work in a partnership is available to people in your area?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 155627,
      "EditedText": "Where would an individual's first port of call be? Is there a standard port of call, or could the individual get safely into the network, without any future complications, by going to any of the partnership players?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 155629,
      "EditedText": "The last question of this section is from David Davidson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 155630,
      "EditedText": "We came here today to look into best practice and the models that you operate. In the rest of Scotland, there are three layers, including the enterprise trusts. There is incredible competition and overlap between enterprise trusts and local authorities. That causes some tensions, and is perhaps not an example of best practice. That does not happen here. HIE acts as a sort of super-LEC, and you act as a LEC that delivers in the same way as a trust. Is there tension with the local authority, or is there no tension because HIE mirrors the authority? There seems to be trouble in other parts of Scotland, and we are trying to learn about your practice, and whether you see any weaknesses in the lack of a relationship at your level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 155637,
      "EditedText": "In rural areas, risk is an issue. That has been inherent in much of the discussion that we have had this morning. We must recognise that it is not only about spending money, but about talking to communities and individuals. You have asked about the business birth rate: it is almost as important to give good advice about not starting a business as it is to give good advice about starting one. Although it is difficult to measure, we must recognise that failure is sometimes part of the price of success."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 155651,
      "EditedText": "But you are not taking a different risk profile from a commercial bank; you are simply providing more finance than a commercial bank would be prepared to offer. I suppose that that is, to some extent, a greater risk?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 155652,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 155647,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your input. The word complementarity has cropped up quite a lot this morning and it gets to the nub of some of the issues with which our inquiry is wrestling.I want to pursue the issue of what economic development services are available from the council. Correct me if I am wrong, but based on what I have heard, I assume that the council recognises Highlands and Islands Enterprise as the lead body for economic development services in the Highlands and Islands. What the council does is contribute to partnerships that deliver agreed services, where you have a say in what the services should be. There are also particular services that you offer as a client organisation or a contractor, rather than as a statutory provider. Is that a fair summary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 155649,
      "EditedText": "Would you lend to a company that had failed a lending test by a commercial bank?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 155654,
      "EditedText": "The money is lent directly, but the two companies are stand-alone. They are not covered by section 94 of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973. The money has been put aside—it is recycling. We will normally lend the money over a period of three to seven years. Our success in getting it back means that we can recycle it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 155656,
      "EditedText": "We are going one step further. Next Thursday there will be a report to the council recommending that it establishes a joint venture company with a private sector partner. That is a development of Highland Prospect Ltd, the larger of the two companies, which will give it a new arm and the opportunity, along with planning gain, PFI and section 94 of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973, to back up social opportunities as well as economic ones. Council assets that may be under-used will be able to be recycled from profitable areas, such as the inner Moray firth and possibly Caithness, to the more remote areas of Wester Ross and north-west Sutherland, etc."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 155663,
      "EditedText": "Let us narrow this down to some of the areas that we are entitled to cover under this committee's remit. What needs to be done to strengthen the democratic accountability of HIE and the LECs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 155666,
      "EditedText": "I would not necessarily argue just for more councillors. You want a depth and breadth of experience that is based within the communities and that can contribute to the thinking capacity of the board while making it more accountable to the communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 155667,
      "EditedText": "Are you arguing that the board should be elected?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 155669,
      "EditedText": "That is not a council view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 155672,
      "EditedText": "Please can I have brief answers to those questions. They are stretching the remit of this committee, and I must guard our competence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 155676,
      "EditedText": "Mr Rennilson, I am interested in the two companies to which you have referred—Highland Opportunity Ltd and Highland Prospect Ltd. Who is on the boards of those companies? I assume that they are wholly owned subsidiaries of the council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 155686,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful if you could send us some more information on that.May I push the matter a bit further? This morning we have heard that the lines of demarcation are clear, that organisations are not treading on toes and that they are coming together with other organisations. I do not understand why Highland Council, having taken some decisions to step back from the economic development process, seems to be going back into it. Could you tell us what economic development support you have within the planning and development department?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 155687,
      "EditedText": "I have area development officers who are responsible for each of the areas of the council. They are the local points of contact. As you have heard from previous speakers this morning, it does not matter which door you come in—if we are not the best placed to deal with you we will ensure that you are put in contact with the right people.To take a modest example, we produced with Inverness and Nairn Enterprise and the Employment Service a colourful package that told young unemployed people which office offered what. It also informed the staff who worked in the respective offices which door they should suggest young people go to.Using European social fund money, we also operate an employment grant scheme, which provides 26 weeks of financial support to employers who take on action groups of unemployed or disabled persons. That, complements what other people are doing. We try to identify any gaps and where the council can help. We are not, in any shape or form, seeking to compete either with the Employment Service, with which we have good relations, or with HIE and the individual local enterprise companies, with which we also have good relations. As has been said, the local economic forum brings together members of the council and the boards of the individual LECs. The dialogue is continuing and regular and it is fruitful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 155689,
      "EditedText": "On the egalitarian pattern of land and sea-bed ownership, the stated political view of the council is that we are keen to pursue land ownership for a variety of reasons. As I understand it, there is no duplication with what is happening in the Highlands and Islands Enterprise network or the community land unit, which has the resources and can act as a catalyst for community land buy-outs. We are keen that land and sea-bed ownership should revert to local communities, not necessarily in every case, but where possible—that is a purely political statement from the council. We are generally supportive of the Government's moves in land and sea-bed reform, although we would like it to go further. There is no duplication with what is happening in the enterprise company set-up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCourt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 155697,
      "EditedText": "Potentially. The European Union's priorities for the programme downgraded the importance of infrastructure provision. The partnership has argued strongly—as I understand the Scottish Executive has—that infrastructure, particularly for communications, is critical in the Highlands and Islands. I believe that there are moves to secure a higher priority for such infrastructure from Europe. If we do not, we will not make the best use over the next six years of that hard-won tranche of money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCourt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 155700,
      "EditedText": "The strategic vision of the community plan is out for consultation. The next stage will be to work through specific policy areas such as community safety, working with young people and geographic targeting. There are also initiatives on the edge—social inclusion, for example—and in areas where community land activity provides priorities. The simple answer to your question is that implementation of the community plan will not fundamentally change the pattern of economic development provision. I see it strengthening such provision and making it work better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 155704,
      "EditedText": "What is the value of the nine units?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 155706,
      "EditedText": "What do you call a commercial rate of return?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 155708,
      "EditedText": "We have already heard from Highlands and Islands Enterprise that there is no market for commercial property in the Highlands and Islands and that it has to offer properties at what might be called subsidised rents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 155710,
      "EditedText": "The decision to make better use of our assets is political. We need to do that in areas where our assets are relatively rich. The council has not yet agreed whether we should go in hard to reinvest soft or do a mix and match of the two. That is purely and simply a political decision. We have asked the officers to consider the situation. They have done a lot of research, just as happened in Edinburgh with EDI. We want to make the best use that we can of our assets to reinvest, possibly on the soft side, and to put resources into the remoter areas of the Highlands where there is need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 155713,
      "EditedText": "I feel a chicken and an egg running around here somewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCourt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 155715,
      "EditedText": "Ninety-five per cent of council employment is in the area that the council serves. Five per cent of council staff are employed in headquarters. That is nevertheless several hundred staff—600, I believe. When we create new jobs or there are changes in employment, the council is keen that that we consider whether those jobs can be decentralised. There is not a large volume of opportunity to do that, but we look constantly at whether further jobs can be dispersed. We are considering the use of new technology primarily to enable more working in local areas so that we do not demand that people always come into the office, but can use technology to work elsewhere. If, for example, our social workers must visit clients every day, we do not want them to waste time coming back to the office base, which may be 30 miles from their first client. The answer to your question therefore is yes, but the scale of opportunity is relatively small. We are not talking about hundreds of jobs, but it is likely to be tens."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 155717,
      "EditedText": "This will have to be the last question in this section of the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 155719,
      "EditedText": "My view is that we need a mixed economy. In percentage terms, the public sector is a large employer across the Highlands. Large services such as mine tend to provide their own training, either through the council's training unit or through our own people. The Highland Council is one of only four local authorities in Scotland that has managed to obtain the kitemark, so to speak, to deliver teacher training—that was a big accolade for the council. However, working in partnership with the enterprise companies and with the further education sector, I expect private companies to deliver training in some of our schools and in the 28 local learning centres that were mentioned earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 155721,
      "EditedText": "I can partially answer that question, although I am sure that the council's convener will also have one or two comments. As far as I am concerned, this issue raises a huge question of equity for the Highlands. It would not be a major concern if we were to meet in one of the cities, as we would be able to access cable and so on. We are already tapping in to large sums of European funding. For example, my service invests £1.3 million each year in information technology and will do so for the next three years. However, we cannot do that alone—it is a political issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 155724,
      "EditedText": "I want to come back to the concerns that Bruce Robertson raised about the development of the Highland grid. He stated that British Telecom had decided that digital upgrading would be done only in areas with a population of 25,000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 155726,
      "EditedText": "If the council writes to the committee clerks about digital upgrading, the information will be made available to all members. We could take some action as a committee, as there are legitimate concerns about that issue. In the absence of infrastructure, the strategy of expanding access to lifelong learning cannot be delivered. Are there any additional remarks that the witnesses wish to make before I wind up the proceedings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 566.0,
      "ContributionID": 155730,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Calum Robertson (Head of Corporate Planning, Sabhal Mòr Ostaig): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 155738,
      "EditedText": "Gnìomhan taice.A bharrachd air na cùrsaichean foghlaim, tha a' Cholaisde an sàs ann an iomadh nì eile chum feumalachdan coimhearsnachd na Gàidhlig a choilionadh: Lèirsinn—Ionad Rannsachaidh na Colaisde.Cànan—Buidheann foillseachaidh agus maragaideachd na Colaisde.Iomairt Chaluim Chille—Iomairt le Oifis na h-Alba airson ceanglaichean eadar Eirinn is Alba a dhàingneachadh.Teicneòlas Fiosrachaidh—D3 agus Titan—dà phròiseact Eòrpach.A bharrachd air an sin tha na Duilleagan Eadar-lìon aig a' Cholaisde a' faighinn còrr air 100,000 buille gach seachdainn. Tha sin uile a' toirt buaidh eaconomach air an sgìre anns a bheil a' Cholaisde.Tha a' Cholaisde a' cur gu mòr ri teachd-a-steach na sgìre: Mar eisimpleir tha 55 luchd-obrach làn-thide againn agus nuair a tha thu a' cunntas luchd-obrach seall-thìde is geàrr-ama tha 180 air a' chlàr-pàighidh. Tha sin a' ciallachadh tuarasdail faisg air £1.49m sa bhliadhna a' dol mun cuairt sa choimhearsnachd.Tha faisg air 25,000 oidhcheannan-cadail sa bhliadhna gan gabhail air màl sa choimhearsnachd leis a' Cholaisde agus tha luchd-teagaisg is oileanaich a' cleachdadh seirbheisean ionadail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 155741,
      "EditedText": "In the short to medium term, the college—in partnership with other organisations—has ambitions to progress a number of further projects that would enhance its contribution to the economy. For example, the college wants to develop and deliver a Gaelic and performing arts degree and a cultural studies degree. We also want to provide a structured Gaelic access course that would be available through remote delivery; build incubation units to develop further business activities locally; and develop a Gaelic language and culture centre on Islay. In addition, the college wants to establish the Tobar an Dualchais project to digitise, catalogue and make available on-line 18,000 hours of Gaelic and Scots sound recordings. Finally, the college wants to contribute to initial Gaelic teacher training—there is a lack of Gaelic teachers at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 602.0,
      "ContributionID": 155747,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Allan, I know that in the debate about the development of language, there has been an aspiration in the wider Gaelic community for an economic development dimension. Has that come to the fore, and has it been realised? What are the constraints?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 155734,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the committee to the Highlands. Thank you for allowing us to make our presentations in Gaelic. It demonstrates the position that you desire to give Gaelic in the Scottish Parliament and in the country. Comunn na Gàidhlig was set up in 1984, following a report commissioned by the Highlands and Islands Development Board on the way ahead for co-ordinating the promotion and development of the Gaelic language and culture. CNAG is a Government-funded agency with a national remit for the development and promotion of the Gaelic language and culture. CNAG has also acted as adviser on Gaelic matters to the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Scottish Office. Comunn na Gàidhlig is a company limited by guarantee with charitable status. Its bard of drectors represent local authorities, public bodies, all the main Gaelic organisations and the wider Gaelic community.The policies of the organisation are formulated at the annual congress and implemented by the chief executive and staff. The current structure of the organisation, which has evolved over the past 15 years, is based on four main areas: promotion, status, education, youth and community development. Over the past 15 years, some of our main initiatives have been a campaign for secure status, development plans for Gaelic, a campaign for Gaelic broadcasting, a national parent organisation, a Gaelic arts agency, youth initiatives, Gaelic immersion courses, the economic impact of Gaelic—the Brian Ashcroft and Allan Sproull report—the Fàilte culture and tourism initiative, Gaelic education initiatives and Gaelic in the community schemes. Members can see some of our main policies in the policy documents. The draft brief for a Gaelic language bill was submitted to the Executive in August this year. It identifies education, public bodies—including the Scottish Parliament—the courts and broadcasting as the four main areas that should be covered in legislation to provide meaningful protection or secure status. That is based on the principle of equal validity for Gaelic with English in Scotland, along the lines of the recognition given to Welsh in the Welsh Language Act 1993. As far as the interests of the committee are concerned, the draft brief recommends that the principle underlying a Gaelic language act should be that Gaelic-medium education has parity with English-medium education in terms of access, availability, rights, funding and other resources.The importance of Gaelic and its associated culture in the development of Scotland's identity should be recognised by the teaching in primary and secondary education of its history and of its present role in language and culture. More money should also be given to Sabhal Mòr Ostaig.The scarcity of learning and teaching materials for Gaelic has been recognised, and the recent establishment of Stòrlann Nàiseanta na Gàidhlig is a welcome first step, but development structures at national and local levels must be properly funded.Broadcasting is becoming increasingly important in the context of lifelong learning; our draft brief argues that legislative provision is essential if a cohesive Gaelic broadcasting service with a capacity for growth that meets its needs is to be achieved.The proposals for a national policy for Gaelic education in the document \"Framework for Growth\" submitted to the Government in May 1997 seek, as a matter of urgency, to establish a mechanism to co-ordinate the development of Gaelic and Gaelic-medium education at national level. Gaelic plc was set up earlier this year; its three main objectives are to increase the number of Gaelic speakers, to strengthen Gaelic communities and to develop the Gaelic economy. I will address those objectives individually.Regarding the first objective, Gaelic speakers are still deprived, despite recent developments, because older members of the Gaelic community are dying faster than new members are coming to replace them. The main obstacle is the lack of a national Gaelic education policy. Although we have made significant progress in the past 40 years, intergenerational transfer of Gaelic has weakened so much in the Gaelic community that positive and focused policies, such as a Gaelic act that includes education provisions, are crucial to the language's survival.Although a national policy for Gaelic education might be delivered as part of an education act or as part of a Gaelic language act, it must provide for the recruitment and training of Gaelic-medium teachers at all levels. The necessary funding must be made available to deliver those objectives. Such funding would be a step towards halting the decline in the number of Gaelic speakers.The second objective is to strengthen Gaelic communities. The long-term revival of Gaelic requires a social, economic and cultural revitalisation of Gaelic communities to create the confidence and self-esteem that are essential for sustainable growth. The obstacle to that is lack of confidence and of resources.The vast majority of Gaels achieve no economic benefit from Gaelic because of the lack of any education in their own language. They have no confidence in the language nor in their own ability to use it beyond social conversation. We do not yet have effective resources to tackle that. The solution would be a clear national strategy for Gaelic. A Gaelic language act must provide a framework for addressing all the critical development needs of the language, and adequate resources must be provided to allow such initiatives to succeed.The third objective is to strengthen the Gaelic economy. For any linguistic or cultural community to survive, its language must be fully and actively integrated in business and commerce. Gaelic is no different—we must seek to expand its function and place in economic activity. The obstacle is lack of funding support.There is still a general lack of awareness in the business and economic sectors of the opportunities associated with Gaelic. Consequently, there is a lack of resources and promotion allocated to that sector. The solution is the allocation of a fairer share of resources for Gaelic in general, which would enable the wide range of urgent developmental initiatives that have been identified to be addressed. That would allow us to build on existing investment and to ensure continued growth.Gaelic is a unique part of Scotland's rich national heritage. A partnership approach to planning is essential. Education investment is critical to Gaelic enterprise and lifelong learning. Highlands and Islands Enterprise, the local enterprise companies, Sabhal Mòr Ostaig, the University of the Highlands and Islands and the local authorities, with continued support from central Government, have demonstrated that a partnership approach to Gaelic planning and initiatives is paramount if the language and culture are to survive the challenges of the coming millennium. The presentation by Sabhal Mòr Ostaig representatives will demonstrate the continuing importance of education investment as a springboard for future language and prime economic development opportunities. It is an essential prerequisite in securing the future of Gaelic language and culture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lachlan Dick (University of the Highlands and Islands Development Co-ordinator, Sabhal Mòr Ostaig): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 155736,
      "EditedText": "Gu foirmeal, neach-cathraich, am faodainn taing a thoirt dhuibh fhèin agus don Chomataidh agaibh airson na cothrom seo a thoirt dhuinn.An toiseach, beagan mu eachdraidh na Colaisde. Tha Sabhal Mòr Ostaig, co-phàirtear ann an Oilthigh na Gàidhealtachd, suidhichte ann an Slèibhte an Eilein Sgitheanaich. Chaidh a' Cholaisde a stèidheachadh ann an 1973, air sgàth leasachadh an dìth a bha ann thaobh Teagasg tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig agus bho 1983 thàthas air a bhith teagasg tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig cùrsaichean, a tha dearbhte gu nàiseanta, aig ìre Foghlam Adhartach. Agus bhon uiridh, ann an co-bhonn ri dà cholaisde eile ann an Oilthigh na Gàidhealtachd, tha Sabhal Mòr Ostaig air a bhith tabhann dà chùrsa ceum tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig—Gàidhlig is Cultar agus Gàidhlig is Iomall a' Chuain Siar.Bho chaidh a cur air bhonn, tha a' Cholaisde air dà leasachadh a dhèanamh air a cuid goireasan, an toiseach ann an 1993 le goireasan teagaisg is àiteachan-fuirich. Agus a-rithist an-uiridh, dh' fhosglar goireasan sònraichte Arainn Chaluim Chille làimh ris an t-seann togalach. Leig na leasaichidhean seo leis a' Cholaisde bhith leudachadh na h-obrach. A-nis, beagan mun teagasg.Tha teagasg na Colaisde, air a lìbhrigeadh tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig, stèidhichte air a' bheachd gu bheil eaconamachd fhallainte an crochadh air cultar tha an dà chuid beòthail is adhartach. A bharrachd air an dà chùrsa ceum, le barrantas aig caochladh ìrean agus a' chiad bhliadhna na modh bogaidh, tha a' Cholaisde a' tabhann caochladh chùrsaichean eile agus a bharrachd for-cheum Telebhisean air a liubhairt an co-bhonn ris a' ghnìomhachas. Tha a' Cholaisde cuideachd a' tabhann iomadach cùrsa goirid aig àm nan saor-làithean airson feum a dhèanamh dhe na goireasan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 606.0,
      "ContributionID": 155749,
      "EditedText": "It has not come to fruition yet, but we see it as a very important aim. We must understand that 50 years ago there were far more Gaelic speakers than there are today. However, they had no job opportunities related to the language. We are of the opinion that in developing the Gaelic language, we must create opportunities that are related to it and therefore assure its survivial. One example is the tourism project. Donald Martin will say a few words about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 623.0,
      "ContributionID": 155757,
      "EditedText": "Chan eil dà dhoigh nach eil an dùthaich seo gu math deireileach a thaobh a bhith a' togail an dàrna no an treas cànain tacsa ri dùthchannan eile. Tha mi duilich nach eil freagairt agam air carson a tha a' chùis mar sin—dh'fhaodadh duine tarraing air puing no dhà: gur e eilean a th' againn, gu bheil a' Bheurla fhèin cho neartmhor . . . ach chan eil freagairt agam air. A thaobh a bhith togail suas àireamh, tha mi smaoineachadh gur e an rud as cudromaiche a thachair gu bheilear a niste a' tabhann teagasg tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig anns a' bhun-sgoil agus bhithinn an dòchas mean air mhean gum biodh sin a' leudachadh a-mach gu ruige na h-àird-sgoile. Tha mi smaoineachadh gur e adhbhar, 's dòcha, nach eil inbhich a' tighinn gu ìre an an Gàidhlig gur 's math dh'fhaoidhe nach eil cùrsaichean leantainneach againn. Tha sinn ro thric a' cluinntinn ghearainnean bho dhaoine gu bheil iad a' dol gu clasaichean Gàidhlig agus gur e an aon rud a tha iad a' faighinn o bhliadhna gu bliadhna air sgàth agus nach eil àireamh gu leòr ann an aon àite, ann an aon bhaile, a leigeas leat cùrsaichean adhartach a chur air bhonn agus mar a dh'ainmich mi a thaobh cùrsa ìnntrigidh. 'S e sin aon dhen na rudan a bu mhiann an t-Sabhal a dhol an sàs ann agus feuchainn ri cùrsaichean leantainneach a dhealbh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 633.0,
      "ContributionID": 155762,
      "EditedText": "Tha aon rud a chuirinn ris, 's e sin neach-cathraich gu bheil an suidheachadh a tha anns a' Chuimrigh an-diugh, airson a' chiad turais riamh aig a' chunntas-sluaigh mu dheireadh, bha àireamh òigridh fo chòig bliadhna fichead aig an robh Cuimris air tòiseachadh a' tionndadh suas. Agus sin an t-amas a th' againn agus feumaidh sin tachairt mus tòisich an àireamh iomlan air a dhol suas agus 's e an òigridh, a' Ghàidhlig fhaotainn air ais dhan òigridh. Niste, thug na Cuimrich deich bliadhna fichead a' coilionadh sin, a dh'aindheoin 's gun robh dà Achd Pàrlamaid aca air an t-slighe agus Bòrd airson a' chànain, craoladh anns sa chànan 's a h-uile càil a tha sinne sireadh tro na h-Achdan a tha sinn ag iarraidh bhuaibhse, tha e acasan 's a dh'aindheoin sin thug a greis dhaibhsan cuideachd. Tuigidh sibh, tha mi an dòchas, ri linn sin, cho uamhasach fhèin cudromach 's a tha Achd Gàidhlig gu bhith dhuinn a-niste–Achd aig a bheil còirichean."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 635.0,
      "ContributionID": 155763,
      "EditedText": "According to the most recent census, the number of people under 25 who speak Welsh has increased for the first time. That is our aim too. We want to increase the number of people under 25 who speak Gaelic. The Welsh took 30 years to fulfil that aim, despite having two acts along the way, a board to promote Welsh, and broadcasting in the language—everything that we are looking for in a Gaelic act. The Welsh had all those things but it still took a long time to get there, so I hope that members will understand how difficult it is to achieve our goals and how important a Gaelic act, an act that gives us rights, will be in doing so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 637.0,
      "ContributionID": 155764,
      "EditedText": "It is quite humbling that everybody on the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee has earphones slapped to their heads. That indicates the extent of the problem. It can be difficult for people of our mature age to think of learning a new language but it is not difficult at all for youngsters. Children of three, four, five or six can chat conversationally with ease in other languages. Do you feel that the way forward may be to be more forceful about what should go into a primary school curriculum? I gather that teaching Gaelic in primary schools is optional rather than mandatory.You referred to the Welsh Language Act 1993. How has that worked? You said that it had made a positive contribution to heightening the awareness of the Welsh language in Wales. Why do you think that it has worked and why do you think that a Gaelic act would be helpful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 639.0,
      "ContributionID": 155765,
      "EditedText": "Togaidh mi air a' chiad phàirt. A thaobh Achd na Cuimris, tha mi smaoineachadh, chan urrainn dhomh bruidhinn le eòlas sònraichte air a' bhuaidh a bh' aig an Achd a tha sin ach tha mi a' smaoineachadh, gu ìre, gun robh iad anns an t-suidheachadh 's a bheil sinn fhìn–bha aca an toiseach ri dearbhadh gu robh rùn aig an t-sluagh gum biodh an cànan 's an dualchas a' dèanamh adhartais. 'S e sin a' chiad rud agus chaidh a' cheist a bha sin agus an t-amas a bha sin a chur romhainne mar Ghàidheil o chionn còig bliadhna deug air ais. Chaidh a ràdh rinn cha bhi an cànan agaibh beo ri linn gu bheil an Riaghaltas ag ràdh gum bu chòir dhith a bhith beò. Bidh i beò ri linn 's gu bheil sibhse airson gum bi i beò agus thuirt an Riaghaltas rinn aig an aon àm gum feumamaid dearbhadh gun robh sinne mar choimhearsnachd airson gun tachradh sin. Thairis air na còig bliadhna deug a chaidh seachad tha sinn a' smaoineachadh gu bheil sinn air sin a dhèarbhadh mar choimhearsnachd agus tha sinn a-niste a' tilleadh chun an Riaghaltais 's a ràdh riuthasan tha sinne a-niste air ar cuidne a dhèanamh dhen chiad cheum tha seo 's feumaidh sibhse a-niste taic agus tèarainteachd a thoirt dha na rinn sinne gu ruige seo ach an urrainn dhuinn an tuilleadh leasachaidh a dhèanamh. Agus 's e sin tha sinn ag iarraidh leis a' chiad Achd Gàidhlig tha seo thoireadh, chan eil mise smaoineachadh, 's gu dearbh bhithinn an dòchas nach b'e seo an aon Achd Gàidhlig a bheir sibh dhuinn anns an bliadhnaichean ri tighinn. Seo a' chiad cheum ach tha rudan ann a dh'fheumas a bhith innte mar foghlam, còirichean foghlaim agus mar sin air adhart."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C155781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 672.0,
      "ContributionID": 155781,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, friends. We have raised many questions about the Gaelic world today, and I believe that many of the problems associated with Gaelic stem from the fact that Edinburgh and London do not give us our fair share of money. We keep hearing how the Welsh language and culture have developed. We have received some of the assistance that the Welsh have received; but more assistance would make Gaelic language and culture healthier than it is.I do not want to complain too much. Looking back over 20 years, I can see what steps the Gaelic world has taken. We had nothing like Sabhal Mòr Ostaig and there was very little Gaelic on radio or TV. That has changed. Now, we have Gaelic on the radio for a good part of the day and news in Gaelic on TV. We have come a long way with such developments. However, there is still a lot to do; for example, we have heard about the lack of Gaelic teachers. I am not too sure why there is such a lack; perhaps people think that the salary is not large enough or that Gaelic-medium teaching is only a phase.There are other developments that we should mention, such as Gaelic youth and pre-school groups, and a lot is happening with Gaelic in primary schools in the Highlands and in other areas. Sabhal Mòr Ostaig now provides courses that can be found in Stirling, Aberdeen or any other college or university. However, we still need to do something about the link between primary school and college. There needs to be continuity in Gaelic-medium education in secondary school and that will be a problem until we have such teachers in secondary school. How do you see that situation developing?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155792",
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 695.0,
      "ContributionID": 155792,
      "EditedText": "Chan eil dà dhòigh air gur e bogadh as a' chànan an dòigh air a' chànan ionnsachadh—'s e sin an dòigh a bhios clann ag ionnsachadh cànain gu nàdarra. Chan eil e fìor a ràdh gu bheil cothrom an còmhnaidh aig pàrantan ma tha iad ag iarraidh Foghlam tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig thoireadh as a bhitheantas bidh na Comhairlean Ionadail a' sireadh àireamh sònraichte mus tèid iad air adhart le clas Gàidhlig no clas tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig. Tha cuid dhe na Comhairlean a bheir còmhdhail do chloinn gu ruige an sgoil Ghàidhlig as fhaisge agus tha sin na chuideachadh cuideachd. Cha leig iad a leas a dhol dhan sgoil sa sgìre aca fhèin, faodaidh iad taghadh a dhol dhan sgoil sa bheil Gàidhlig. 'S e aon dhe na duilgheadasan cuideachd a tha aig na Comhairlean, agus feumaidh sinn aideachadh, gu bheil iad rud beag amharasach, uaireannan, a dhol air adhart le teagasg tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig air sgàth a' ghainnid luchd-teagaisg a dh'fhaodas a bhith ann agus 's e mealladh a th' ann nuair a bhios Comhairle ann an èiginn a' sireadh luchd-teagaisg airson nan clasaichean a tha aca mar tha."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 697.0,
      "ContributionID": 155793,
      "EditedText": "Immersion in a language is the best way to learn that language. That is the way in which children learn language naturally. It is not true to say that every parent has the opportunity to send his or her child to a Gaelic-medium school. Usually, the local council looks for a certain number of entrants before it is willing to go ahead with a Gaelic-medium class. Some councils provide transport for children to go to the Gaelic-medium school that is nearest to them and that is a great help. The councils have other difficulties. They are wary of going ahead with Gaelic-medium education because of the lack of teachers that are available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 705.0,
      "ContributionID": 155797,
      "EditedText": "I want to thank you, convener, and recommend the excellent short courses provided by Sabhal Mòr, which may reduce the need for earphones on the next occasion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
      "HeadingID": 3537,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 710.0,
      "ContributionID": 155799,
      "EditedText": "The final part of today's formal hearing is a discussion with those who are responsible for the development of the University of the Highlands and Islands Project. It is my pleasure to welcome Professor Brian Duffield, the director and chief executive of the University of the Highlands and Islands Project. Brian, I ask you first to introduce your colleagues, please. We will then move on to the presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155801",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 714.0,
      "ContributionID": 155801,
      "EditedText": "Okay. That would be helpful. We must conclude by 3.30 pm, to guarantee that we can undertake a visit to the learning resource centre, which we are anxious to see. I ask witnesses to keep their presentations concise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155802",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Duffield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 716.0,
      "ContributionID": 155802,
      "EditedText": "I would like to use the overhead projector. Is that okay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
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      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 718.0,
      "ContributionID": 155803,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr John French (Head of Academic Development, University of the Highlands and Islands Project): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 726.0,
      "ContributionID": 155806,
      "EditedText": "I will outline some of the challenges on the academic development side.As Brian has described, building new structures for governance has been an important part of the project's work over the past two years. We have also had to put in place a curriculum framework for the university. In a moment, I will talk about what that will create in terms of new opportunities for learners in the future. We have had to establish new quality assurance systems from scratch, which can cope with the innovative nature of the project. Because of its collegiate federal structure, UHI has raised significant challenges to the way in which we deal with quality assurance.We are encouraging the promotion of new strategies for teaching and learning, particularly when we are dealing with remote learners. We have had to re-examine our marketing and communications systems, not for individual partners but for the whole project. We also see ourselves as an emerging higher education institution. We want to collaborate and link with other universities and to take the rightful place, alongside other universities, that the University of the Highlands and Islands should expect to hold in the sector. We have been working hard to strengthen those links. UHI is unique, in so far as the origins of the project have a strong presence in the further education sector—that is one of the project's great strengths. We have come from a range of starting points and the project has a great diversity, a range of experience and a particularly strong track record in terms of learner support and lifelong learning that has already been developed in the network's colleges. There is a strong vocational base and a significant range of courses act as a springboard and relate to the needs of the community and the wider region. We have sought to build on that and to develop a new curriculum—and new degree courses in particular—that is integrated with existing national provision. The curriculum relates to the needs of the area, the work force and the region's emerging employment characteristics. Throughout the provision that we are developing, we are building in personal and professional capabilities so that future graduates will have the right skills. That is possible because the UHI is one accredited network. Accreditation comes from the Open University validation service. In a number of years' time, we hope to be able to survive quite capably without the validation service's support when we acquire our own degree-awarding powers, which is one of the strategic plan targets that we are working towards. We have had to be innovative in our quality assurance arrangements and to apply flexible new structures. We are trying to reinforce the regional collaboration and the horizontal connections between the academic partners that make up the network. One aspect of that work is the establishment of the new UHI faculties, which cover five main areas of academic activity: health and social studies, environment and natural systems sciences, information and engineering systems, business and leisure studies and arts, culture and heritage. We hope that those five major areas reflect significant activity in and future development of the region that UHI serves. We have appointed deans to those faculties, who will strategically co-ordinate the development of the curriculum across those areas. As a snapshot, the new courses that have been developed and that are under development in those faculties include two Gaelic degrees, one in language and culture, the other with north Atlantic studies, which we expect to see as a springboard—as members heard earlier—for Gaelic-medium teacher education. Computing is one of the network's most popular degrees and many students are enrolling in social science. We also have courses in theology, marine science, music performance, from which we expect to see traditional music developing, and rural health studies. The characteristics of the curriculum are not necessarily what would be seen in ordinary universities. It is designed to respond to the needs and interests of the region. The student profile of the UHI is of interest. Taking all the partner colleges together, some 5,500 students are already on higher education courses in the network. There is a 50:50 breakdown between full and part-time students and between male and female students, and some 70 per cent of learners are over 25 years of age. There is no better illustration of the way in which this project is responding to the lifelong learning agenda in terms of student participation and activity. We expect to see these trends continuing.Last, as I was asked to keep my presentation short, I will mention some of the key quality assurance issues that confront the UHI as a developing university. One of our strengths is that we can achieve comparability of academic standards. Our mission commits us to achieving the highest standards in this new university, including the achievement of comparable standards across the network, which is a great, positive benefit from working collaboratively with 13 academic partners. The systems that we put in place will enable us to review and enhance those standards. We want to be able to co-ordinate quality assurance on a network basis and, as part of the developing academic community in the network, we want all staff to be part of that co-ordinated quality assurance system. We think that we can see the signs of that development coming through. As Brian said, next week, the Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education will subject us to a seven-day audit that will take in most parts of the academic network and will, in essence, act as a benchmark for UHI against comparable higher education institutions in the sector. That will be a major stepping point for UHI.I will hand over to my colleague, Dr Ray Harris, who will talk about community learning networks and the way in which UHI will take provision out to the remoter communities."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
      "HeadingID": 3537,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 732.0,
      "ContributionID": 155808,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Dr Harris. I would now like to throw the discussion open to those who wish to ask questions about where the university project goes from here. What have you identified as being the major obstacles that must be overcome to achieve university status?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr French: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 744.0,
      "ContributionID": 155814,
      "EditedText": "I agree that it is important that a developing university has a portfolio that includes the whole spectrum of studies, including engineering and sciences. We have been keen in our development not to neglect those subjects.This is an area in which the value added from working with multiple partners is relevant, as not every partner will want a heavy engineering or design and construction laboratory or the latest CADCAM—computer-aided design, computer-aided manufacture—equipment. However, one or two partners might have those facilities. As our courses develop—we have just developed a new mechanical engineering degree, for example—we hope to draw on resources from different locations in the network to create one learning experience for students and to enable students to access those facilities.Students may sometimes have to move for a few weeks to one location to use heavy engineering laboratories or science facilities. For example, the Scottish Association for Marine Science, a world-class research laboratory, is in the network, which gives science students a tremendous opportunity to access its facilities.We have a range of strategies. For example, the engineering degree uses simulations that students can access electronically. However, it is the strength of the value added and of the partnership approach that can really help in this area."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155816",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 748.0,
      "ContributionID": 155816,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of questions. In the executive summary, you mention that you still have to establish the funding requirements for on-going resources. Taking into account the use of new technology and the wiring-up of different centres, can you estimate what the unit costs might be? Will they be higher than the costs for a single centre or have the new technology and the outreach centres managed to overcome barriers?Secondly, are the different partners complementary or is there a fair bit of overlap in what they offer to students? If there is overlap, will you consider rationalisation to get value for money and to establish how to find the best expertise to deliver the course requirements?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155825",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Duffield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 767.0,
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      "EditedText": "Ray is dying to get in, but I will attempt to answer if I may. I wish to make one fundamental point: the UHI is breaking the mould in a big way, just as the Open University did. Historically and traditionally, universities have been large institutions located in large towns, with large campuses. They were centripetal institutions: they drew people to them. Even if we had created a university in Inverness in the mid-1960s, all that it would have done for many people in the Highlands and Islands would have been to change the destination on their ticket. We are a centrifugal institution. I call it the Polo university, with a hole in the middle. We are committed to moving opportunities to people. The 1,000 jobs that Ray identified will not be in Inverness; they will be all over the Highlands and Islands. The services that support our university will not be based in Inverness. There are eight different elements to our distributive IT network: our video-conferencing services are now being run from Shetland; our data warehouse is in Oban; our Cisco research fellow—in learning environments and technology—is in Thurso; and so it goes on. The opportunities that we are creating will benefit everybody. It is not a question of people being put on the dole by what we are doing: quite the opposite. Like you, Mrs Scanlon, many of us will have experienced working in higher education institutions where the answer to resource constraints is to pile student numbers ever higher—50, 100, 150, 200 in lecture theatres. That is doing what human beings do not do very well—trying to convey knowledge. We will free resources so that people can support learning. The issue is redeploying, not redundancy."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155826",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
      "HeadingID": 3537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 709.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 709.0,
      "ID": 3537,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harris: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 769.0,
      "ContributionID": 155826,
      "EditedText": "I will be very brief, but first I must declare an interest. I am on secondment to the UHI; I am the depute principal of Perth College. I hope that there will be video-conferencing at the 13 sites, but video-conferencing would not have been accessible were it not for the University of the Highlands and Islands. One person in Shetland is doing a rural development degree—they would not have been able to do it if we did not have the infrastructure. We could have a long discussion about educational pedagogy, but I promise that there will be local support for all students in their communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
      "HeadingID": 3537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 709.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 709.0,
      "ID": 3537,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 775.0,
      "ContributionID": 155829,
      "EditedText": "On that point, I would like to draw the final part of the committee meeting to a close."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
      "HeadingID": 3537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 709.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 709.0,
      "ID": 3537,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 779.0,
      "ContributionID": 155831,
      "EditedText": "We revel in your enthusiasm. No amount of glossy brochures can create the University of the Highlands and Islands, but the enthusiasm that has been displayed today will do so. I compliment all who have been involved in the work that has been done. I enjoyed hearing about the project—we will keep an eye on it, as I suspect that it might require parliamentary support.This has been a successful day for the first committee to deliberate outwith the metropolis. I thank everyone who has been involved in the preparation of the meeting. After the meeting, the clerks will give us details of the informal visit that we will conduct this afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
      "HeadingID": 3537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 709.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3537,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 761.0,
      "ContributionID": 155822,
      "EditedText": "I pay tribute to you and your colleagues for taking on what seems to be an immensely complex task, involving negotiations that would challenge the skills of the legendary Gulbenkian. I want to ask specific questions about the grand vision that you have illustrated and the hard reality, particularly the funding difficulties that Inverness College, with a deficit of £4 million, faces. Can you assure us today that the timetable that you have identified for the process of obtaining university status will not in any way be impeded by the current funding difficulties? If you cannot do so, can you outline what difficulties Inverness College's current funding problems might present?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:27.871345+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 155671,
      "EditedText": "Iain Robertson mentioned earlier this morning that people are our greatest asset. In the council's presentation you said that there are 35,500 pupils at school in the Highlands this year. My concern, which has been expressed by many people throughout the Highlands, is the appalling state of many schools, especially primary schools in places like Lochaline and Acharacle and, I dare say, in many others. What is the total cost of the capital works required, as identified by Highland Council, in relation to the necessary upgrading of those schools?If we accept that we must raise more money to deal with that problem, would you, convener, support looking at Highland Council having powers to remove the 50 per cent council tax subsidy that holiday homes in the Highlands receive so that we could use that money, which I believe is £2 million a year, towards dealing with some of the problems in schools?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 155599,
      "EditedText": "My question is for Jackie. It concerns a problem that faces all LECs that are operating in the Highlands, where there may be a low population for a very large area and fewer businesses than in other LEC areas in Scotland. I refer to the problem of displacement: a grant to one garage disadvantages a competitor unfairly. Do you have a policy of ensuring that there is no displacement in any applications for assistance? If so, would that policy apply to the National Trust for Scotland if it applied for grant assistance to create a restaurant facility in a new visitor centre in Glencoe? Many local constituents have expressed grave concern that their existing businesses may be placed in jeopardy if the local enterprise company extends grant finance to the National Trust for Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.3640332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />(Inverness)<br />Wednesday 20 October 1999",
      "HeadingID": 3534,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3534,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John Swinney): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 155458,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I bring this meeting of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee to order and I welcome members. I have received apologies from Margo MacDonald and Duncan McNeil, both of whom are unable to join us owing to illness.The meeting has been joined by one of the members of the Rural Affairs Committee, Rhoda Grant, and I believe that John Farquhar Munro may also be joining us. We are also joined by David Davidson and Mary Scanlon, members of other committees who take an interest in our proceedings.I extend a warm welcome to the members of the public who have come along today. Thank you for the interest that you have shown in the work of the Scottish Parliament and its committees. I thank the parliamentary departments—the clerking team, the official report, the security staff, the broadcasting staff and the media relations personnel—for the tremendous amount of work that has gone into ensuring that this committee could undertake its proceedings in Inverness. I particularly want to thank those who are responsible for providing the simultaneous interpretation facilities for the Gaelic language, which will be used later today. For convenience, the necessary equipment for listening to the interpretation is on each desk, and all that people need to do is to put on the headphones and switch to channel 1; I am assured that it will work perfectly. On behalf of the committee and the Parliament, I record our thanks to Highland Council for making the Town House available to us and for giving committee members a very warm welcome last night.This is an historic meeting. It is the first meeting of a Scottish Parliament committee outwith the precincts of Edinburgh and members of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee are delighted to be the trail-blazers for that process.We meet in historic surroundings. In 1921, the British Cabinet met in this hall to discuss Irish independence. I am told that the Cabinet met here because Lloyd George was on holiday in Gairloch, which is a fantastic advert for the Scottish Tourist Board and holidaying in Scotland. We are pleased to be making history for the Scottish Parliament in this historic situation.Our meeting today has two purposes. First, we shall conduct part of our hearings on the committee's first inquiry into the delivery of economic development, vocational training and business support services at a local level in Scotland. We are particularly interested to find out the Highlands and Islands perspective on that process.Our second purpose is to hold more briefing discussions on the wider responsibilities of the committee in relation to enterprise policy in the Highlands and Islands and the Gaelic language. In our work, we have spoken to many organisations to gather information about the committee's areas of interest. We decided that it would be a touch impertinent to invite all the Highlands and Islands organisations to Edinburgh to give us the benefit of their opinions and that, instead, it would be most appropriate for the committee to visit the Highlands and Islands to listen carefully to organisations and individuals here. I look forward to that opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 155463,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Iain, for a comprehensive presentation and for some refreshing insight into the strengths of the network and the problems that endure in the Highlands and Islands. That is much appreciated. I invite general questions, for up to half an hour, on Highlands and Islands Enterprise, before we address the specific areas of our own inquiry.On the problems that face the Highlands and Islands and the challenges for the network, you said, Iain, that the biggest threat was any relaxation of the development effort. In your concluding remarks, you said that there had been a real-terms decline in grant-in-aid to the HIE network. Can you explain how those two remarks can be balanced? To what extent is the real-terms decline in grant-in-aid a problem for the effectiveness of Highlands and Islands Enterprise in delivering its strategy? In the context of the developments and changes in European funding, especially in relation to objective 1, how does the network plan to continue the development effort that you described within the conditions that you outlined?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 155467,
      "EditedText": "So, for example, instead of HIE contributing 40 per cent of funding to a project, it is contributing 25 per cent and leveraging resources from elsewhere?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 155468,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 155469,
      "EditedText": "I understand that, but what does that mean for the viability—or rather, the commencement—of more uncertain projects, for which, in the past, support from Highlands and Islands Enterprise would have made a difference where the risk evaluation was too great for the public purse to take on? Those projects were more likely to have been taken on in the past than they are now, as there is a decreasing HIE component."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 155475,
      "EditedText": "The beauty of the network is that, although we start off with the indicative budgets for the LECs based on the formula share—that is done in sync with the needs of the area—as we go through the year, if one area finds that it has a really good big project coming up, it can ask us whether we can find more money in the network. We then talk to all the LECs and find out which ones are running slack and which are running ahead. Over the past nine years, we have been able to accommodate some gigantic projects, including several £7 million projects, by arranging for LECs whose spend is low to allow other LECs to take a portion of that cash so that projects can go ahead and to get the money back several years later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 155476,
      "EditedText": "What proportion of your budget are you likely to move around in that way in any given year, Iain?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Slaven: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 155478,
      "EditedText": "The swing in any one year has been up to about £8 million or £9 million. The strength of the network lies in the fact that, over the eight or nine years in which we have been operating, the allocation to the LECs has been driven more than 85 per cent by the formula share, despite the big swings year by year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hunter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 155481,
      "EditedText": "There is no doubt—I speak partly in my previous capacity as chairman of a LEC, Skye and Lochalsh Enterprise—that that flexibility and that potential for additional funding is part of the process that keeps LECs very much on their toes. As Iain said, money is not moved around every year, but there is the potential for that to happen. At Skye and Lochalsh Enterprise, that opened up opportunities to do things that might not otherwise have been possible. Most of our LECs have become very good at working within that flexible system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 155483,
      "EditedText": "One of the things that we need to do in the network every year is to ensure that we maximise the spend. If money is coming to the Highlands, we certainly do not want to hand any of it back. As you know, the public sector works on a curious cash-accounting basis—at the end of every year, we try to make the spend as close as we can to the designated spend for the year, so that no money is left on the table. We have been able to do that successfully over the past nine years by ensuring that no good project, wherever it is in the network, goes unfunded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 155488,
      "EditedText": "Is that flexibility in infrastructure projects in particular or across the board?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 155489,
      "EditedText": "Across the board. A tight measure will not allow change over time. Under objective 1, the amount of money is prescribed: if schemes run out of cash, they cannot be continued. Also, there was not a lot of competition for the funds in the early years but the competition for the funds in the later years was huge. The projects got better as people got better at operating the system. We would like things to be more even this time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 155492,
      "EditedText": "If a local enterprise company has a good idea, does Highlands and Islands Enterprise punt that to other LECs, assume it to be standard practice and negotiate contracts on the basis of that practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 155493,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We have a meeting of the chief executives of the LECs every two months. The HIE board moves around all the LECs and three out of four of our HIE board meetings are in the LEC areas. There is constant dialogue and I do not have to tell the chief executives what are good ideas and what things they should do. I do not have the authority to do that, anyway, and they pick up on one another's good ideas naturally. The account manager system that Lochaber Ltd championed has been useful.Our front-line directors in HIE—the director of growing business, the director of developing skills and the director of strengthening communities—all used to be chief executives of LECs. There is a natural willingness to pinch other people's good ideas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 155494,
      "EditedText": "What is the percentage figure of businesses that you assist in terms of those that have been assisted when measured against the actual start-up rate? For the Scottish Enterprise network, it was 20 per cent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 155495,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure what figure you are talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 155497,
      "EditedText": "We do not know the number of new businesses that have started in the Highlands. We have a new business birth rate figure that is based on information from the clearing banks. I have not worked out what percentage of those we assist. Are there about 2,000 new business start-ups a year in the area, Tracey?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 155501,
      "EditedText": "What is the sustainability performance of the businesses that have been assisted in comparison with the ones that have not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 155503,
      "EditedText": "I would like brief answers to the other two parts of George Lyon's question, then we must move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 155506,
      "EditedText": "I think that George had a question about the effect of Inverness GDP on Highland GDP."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Slaven: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 155508,
      "EditedText": "That is correct. Our strategy in the priority areas is to focus on diversification. The way in which to increase GDP in those areas is to increase employment opportunities for individuals. That is why we are trying to encourage inward investment in areas such as the western isles to provide jobs that are significantly better paid than some of the multi-occupational jobs that people had previously. The strategy also provides better opportunities for people who remain in the primary sectors, because wealth is then not spread so thinly across the area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 155513,
      "EditedText": "In our responses, we are trying to be creative and to offer a variety of solutions. I hope that we will find a way. I think that there is general sympathy with rural areas over the cost of fuel—I sense that from Government and from newspapers. We are all searching for creative solutions to this problem. Anything that the committee can do to help would be greatly valued."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 155514,
      "EditedText": "The agenda for our meeting on 27 October includes an item that has been requested by a number of members—Annabel Goldie, Allan Wilson and Fergus Ewing—and relates to this issue. We will come on to that. Will members keep questions brief, as I am anxious to make progress?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 155518,
      "EditedText": "I found what Iain Robertson was saying interesting—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155523",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 155523,
      "EditedText": "Oil and gas employment  is immensely important to the Highlands. We have always recognised that a large part of that employment was in building or fabrication yards. Fabrication has always been cyclical. We have just come though a low oil price scenario—I hope we are over it now, as the price is now above $20 a barrel—but the situation is still delicate. Having hit the low, the oil industry has cut back on its development. That means a lag time for the fabrication sector. There is overcapacity in the fabrication sector throughout the world, and Britain is no exception. We have tried to ensure that our fabrication yards—Lewis Offshore and BARMAC—have the infrastructure and potential to remain on the bidding lists, in worldwide terms, whatever changes are happening in the oil industry.For example, we used our own and European funding to re-equip the dock at the Nigg oil yard, because the industry was moving towards the potential for floating technology—floating rigs instead of the fixed structures of the past—for the west-of-Shetland oilfields. The Nigg yard is poised ready. In the world today, anyone considering building a floater must consider doing it in Nigg or Ardersier, because those two yards have world-class capacity. We hope that that world-class capacity and the expertise in the joint venture between Brown and Root and McDermott—the BARMAC company—will ensure that the Moray firth area stays on the agenda for the oil companies in the future. In the meantime, we have a pit to get out of. We hope that the Nigg yard will get some orders, but the number of UK orders will be low. Therefore, the work force requirement of the Nigg and Ardersier yards will be low: they will be lucky—very lucky—to have 1,000 jobs there from April.The last time that there was a downturn in fabrication, we were able to keep the families predominantly in the area. We created job shops. People were attracted to them, and to jobs offshore. This time jobs offshore will be harder to get in the rest of the world. Construction, however, is on the up, and many of the workers came from construction. We hope that, by setting up a database, which we call HIE Opps, this register of available workers will help us place as many people as possible in such a way that the families do not have to move out of the area. In this way, they will ride the downturn.There are many other oil-related activities in the area, including Sullom Voe, the Rockwater plant and other small companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 155526,
      "EditedText": "The initiative at the edge was a very good idea. It came from Brian Wilson, when he was a minister. We realised, when talking to him, that we were being quite successful in what we were trying to achieve. He felt, however, that there were communities with few inhabitants right out on the edge that we were not touching. He came up with the initiative at the edge. It was to give us and the local authorities an extra boost to try to work more closely at a local level in villages, bringing in the communities themselves to make them feel that they were valued and that they had the ability to help themselves. There are currently seven initiative-at-the-edge areas.We have appointed a co-ordinator and an assistant for it, who are working in the western isles. They report to Lorne MacLeod, who is our director of strengthening communities. So far, those seven groups have done studies and surveys in their local areas, and they are all looking for small projects that can give a village heart. A community that has completed one project together will go on to undertake many more projects together: its members are able to benchmark good ideas among themselves, to meet and proceed on that basis. There is great enthusiasm for such projects among local authorities and LECs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 155527,
      "EditedText": "Land reform?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 155530,
      "EditedText": "I shall be brief, convener. Of HIE's budget, £14.8 million is spent on the development of skills. How successful have you been in achieving one of your priorities, which was to widen access, especially for the most fragile communities? How much of that has been done in partnership? That is the first part of my question; the second part is very specific. Do all the training programmes that you fund have access to the same wide range of portfolio qualifications, or does some of your funding push people down the Scottish vocational qualification route? If so, why?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 155532,
      "EditedText": "If we are seeking a lifelong learning culture, bringing in training and education, particularly for our young people, in order to be able to skill a workforce, I am quite worried about the drive towards SVQs for 16 to 18-year-olds. The new deal programme allows people to choose from a range of Scottish Qualifications Authority portfolios, and Scottish Enterprise takes the same line. Why do young people not have the same choice as those aged over 18? Is Highlands and Islands Enterprise going to review its policy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Palmer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 155535,
      "EditedText": "We had a drive on quality because, initially, when we took over this area, quality was an issue. We must be more flexible, which we will be, particularly on access for individuals who may be disadvantaged or who may have problems. We will have tailored training programmes for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C155536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 155536,
      "EditedText": "I will be brief.Tourism is a major industry in the Highlands. Why do you think that we are losing market share against global growth? You mentioned the University of the Highlands and Islands several times; however, I am aware that several colleges are facing severe financial hardship with deficits of more than £1 million.Are you concerned about the grant system? I read an article in The Scotsman on Saturday about people on Eigg getting a small grant in order to get a bigger grant in order to employ someone to get a really big grant. Are you concerned that the renaissance of the Highlands is very much dependent on grants, which is becoming an industry in itself?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hunter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 155538,
      "EditedText": "I wish to add that the commitment to quality, which was developed under my predecessor, Fraser Morrison, is absolute and we are committed to continuing that process. I emphasise that we do not see that simply in terms of increasing the competitiveness of the industry, allowing us to access more share of this rapidly growing global industry, although that is a priority. It is only by upping the quality and by getting the emphasis on training and a proper career structure within the industry, as Iain said, that we will begin to address the issue that tourism has been associated traditionally with a relatively low wage structure in areas such as the Highlands. For most people, it has not been an attractive industry to work in and we must change that perception.These issues all hang together: if the industry has a well-motivated, well-paid and highly trained workforce with a reasonable career structure, it will offer a higher quality of service to its customers. We do not see the situation simply in terms of marketing; rather we must address the fundamental issues of low wages and low per capita gross domestic product, which was mentioned earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hunter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 155540,
      "EditedText": "We would like members to take that fundamental message away from this discussion. We are in the process of turning this area around. We believe that we are achieving success and that we have turned a historic corner in terms of population and so on. For all the reasons that we have touched on this morning, there is still a big job to do and we welcome members' interest in that. We look to members of the Scottish Parliament for support for our endeavours. It goes without saying that we welcome suggestions as to how we can do that job better. However, it is fundamental that we tackle head-on the issue of subsidy.Our people are not subsidy junkies. The Highlands has a 200-year history of decline, economic contraction, outward migration and so on and it is not easy to reverse those trends. However, it is imperative that we recognise the enormous effort that people—not just those in the network but in communities across the Highlands and Islands—are making to turn the area around. People are doing a lot and they deserve encouragement. What the media chooses to say about Eigg—or about elsewhere—is a matter for the media. When people are struggling, as they often are, to enhance the opportunities available to localities such as Eigg, it is not helpful, to put it mildly, that they receive such gratuitous criticism. Eigg has a sad history, as many of us know, but it is in the process of being turned around. That is not an easy task and will take a lot of time and effort. However, Eigg and other localities like it can have a good future. We are committed to moving forward with them on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 155545,
      "EditedText": "First, we are very keen for the rural areas of Scotland to get a good crack at any new jobs or activities arising out of the Parliament. There should be a presumption in favour of the rural areas, rather than the cities. Secondly, your support for the development effort that is under way in this area will be very welcome. Thirdly, the reason that we have taken so much time to get through this part of the meeting is that the number of topics is enormous. We cannot hope to do justice to this matter in one visit. I invite any members of the committee who, collectively or individually, would like to see some of our projects or to visit some of the LECs, to do so. In that way, they will be able to see what is happening on the ground. We have 120 unpaid board members and an expert staff throughout the network, who would be very happy to show you around."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 155549,
      "EditedText": "I welcome our next three witnesses. As I outlined earlier, we are conducting an inquiry into local economic development service delivery in Scotland, with a particular focus on business support services, vocational education and general economic development services. In this part of the inquiry, we will hear from three chief executives of local enterprise companies in the Highlands and Islands. We are particularly interested to hear a different perspective from that with which most of us are familiar from lowland Scotland and the Scottish Enterprise network.I ask each of you to introduce yourselves to the committee and to provide us with a little background on the organisations that you represent. I will then open up the floor to questions. A number of members of the public are having difficulty hearing properly, so I ask members of the committee to speak up so that what they are saying is clear. I apologise if members of the public are finding it difficult to hear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 155559,
      "EditedText": "Do you find yourselves providing the same type of services as the local authority, or are local enterprise companies to the fore in the provision of economic development services with no competitors at local level?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 155561,
      "EditedText": "So you operate discretely but you collaborate in areas of mutual interest, of which there are many. Is that the case in the other local enterprise companies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 155562,
      "EditedText": "There is a complementarity of services. Like Gordon's organisation in Ross and Cromarty, Lochaber Ltd is considered the first port of call for economic development in Lochaber. We work closely with the Lochaber area committee and the Lochaber economic development officer for Highland Council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 155564,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in partnership working, particularly in the sort of areas that have already been mentioned. The chief executive of Highlands and Islands Enterprise said that the chief executives of LECs meet frequently—I think he said every two months. I would like to hear more about how LECs learn from one another and how models of good practice are disseminated throughout the region irrespective of where they originated. How will the partnership with local government change as local councils take on a greater role in community planning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 155567,
      "EditedText": "Over the years, we have developed a system under which local enterprise companies do not contract individually with an array of training providers. In the early days, each LEC could have a contract with a certain training provider, but we have now focused those arrangements and Highlands and Islands Enterprise undertakes central contracting for us. Wherever possible, the LECs share auditing resources for training providers. As a result, there is only one small training provider in my local area for which I am responsible on a daily basis and, because it is a local business, we have a more positive relationship than would usually be the case between a supplier and a client. The LECs have achieved some economies of scale to ensure that services are not duplicated, leaving skilled staff with more time to concentrate on training for young people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 155571,
      "EditedText": "Correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 155575,
      "EditedText": "What functions are undertaken by local enterprise companies? Are there financial control operations, accountants and other administration staff within local enterprise companies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 155577,
      "EditedText": "Can I continue my questioning, convener?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 155578,
      "EditedText": "Yes, do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 155582,
      "EditedText": "The western isles chamber of commerce is one of the consultees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 155583,
      "EditedText": "I am aware of the slight local difficulty that you have experienced with the advertisement in the Stornoway Gazette. Is that a matter of concern to you? How did that difficulty arise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 155584,
      "EditedText": "It is always a matter of concern when people are unhappy. Occasionally, for whatever reason, we are unable to approve an application. Not all applications are successful and people can sometimes be dissatisfied with that service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 155590,
      "EditedText": "It varies, depending on which programme we are talking about. In principle, we are talking about a limit of about £50,000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 155595,
      "EditedText": "I cannot think of an instance in which that has happened to a Lochaber Ltd case. As Gordon said, if my board feels that a project is good for Lochaber—that it satisfies the three criteria of additionality, displacement and viability—there is every likelihood that it will be approved by HIE. From the eight years during which I have been in the LEC, I cannot think of a case in which that has not happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 155597,
      "EditedText": "We normally liaise with HIE colleagues when cases are going to be decided by HIE, to ensure that all the issues are addressed early and the process is fairly seamless. That is generally how we try to operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 155598,
      "EditedText": "We concur with everything that has been said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 155602,
      "EditedText": "In answer to your first question, the funding formula simply sets the core budget for the area. As Iain Robertson said, there is network flexibility within the overall budget, depending on differences in timing or on how speedily some projects are set up. If there is a substantial and beneficial project on the books that requires funding in a particular financial year, and if there is cash available within the network, each LEC can make a case to have its budget enhanced to win that project. That means that there is both the core budget and the discretionary bidding process for surplus network funds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 155605,
      "EditedText": "I will tackle Mr Wilson's question about innovation. There are formal and informal mechanisms for investigating opportunities for best practice across the network. The chief executives and the staff of the LECs are regularly in touch with each other—in face-to-face meetings and through IT—for a variety of reasons. As Jackie Wright said, chief executives have formal meetings to discuss matters of mutual interest.Furthermore, HIE has a formal mechanism that acts as a benchmarking exercise between LECs about programmes that have been delivered. That means that, for example, the Investors in People programme will be benchmarked across the network from time to time to find out who is doing what. Documents on that exercise are published internally so that LECs have a ready written reference on who is doing what, if they have not already heard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 155613,
      "EditedText": "Will you make available to the clerks a breakdown of the targets that you are set on an annual basis by HIE? That would be of great help to members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 155616,
      "EditedText": "What commercial rate of return are you required to achieve on property?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 155617,
      "EditedText": "I do not have the exact figure with me, but I can get it. The Treasury rate of return is placed upon us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 155618,
      "EditedText": "I believe that that is 6 per cent. The point that I want to get at is similar to that raised by George Lyon. Do you find yourself in competition with local businesses? You can build a property and achieve a 6 per cent return, but, as a businessman, I would like to build a property and achieve a 10 or 11 per cent return."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 155623,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about widening access and social inclusion. I want to return to a point made by the convener about the different providers of advice for the unemployed and those who want to access education and training. How do the LECs link with other providers such as the council's community education programme, the careers and employment services? If I were unemployed, how would I know where to go for advice? What part do you play in that partnership?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 155632,
      "EditedText": "Is that relationship the reason why you are not suffering any tensions of competition with the local authority?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 155635,
      "EditedText": "Do you wish to make any further remarks on the ground that we have covered—or, more specifically, on the ground that we have not covered—in relation to LEC relationships? As I said to HIE, I encourage local enterprise companies to make written submissions to the inquiry on the basis of the remit that we have published."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 155638,
      "EditedText": "I reiterate what my colleagues have said. Our remit is wide and contains a large number of issues. I would like to invite the committee to come and meet us again to see, on the ground, any or all of the projects that we are dealing with at any time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 155639,
      "EditedText": "I thank Jackie Wright, Gordon Cox and Archie MacDonald for coming today and giving a full explanation of their work. One of the distinctive features that strikes me about the Highlands and Islands is that there seem to be fewer players on the same ground. The issue of complementarity is often eased by the fact that there is no competition in the relationship. That is an important point on which the committee will reflect carefully.I have one piece of advice: it might be useful to call Highlands and Islands super every so often, especially during contract negotiations.Thank you for your contributions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ContributionID": 155643,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155644",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 155644,
      "EditedText": "I bring the committee to order so that we can start the third part of our inquiry. I welcome the representatives of Highland Council, a number of whom we met last night. I opened the meeting by thanking the Highland Council for the facilities that have been made available, both last night and in the Town House today. I dearly hope that the historic meeting of this committee will be given similar status to that given in the council chamber next door to the historic meeting of the British Cabinet. We look forward to seeing the framed photographs and signature list in due course. Thank you for your co-operation.I invite Councillor David Green, the convener of the council, to introduce his team and to address the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155648",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Rennilson (Director of Planning and Development, Highland Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 155648,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair summary, but we do go further. The council has two companies of its own. They are creatures of the council and they provide soft loan opportunities which go beyond the grants that are available from the LECs or from HIE, or loans available from commercial banks. Highland Opportunity Ltd lends up to £50,000, and Highland Prospect Ltd up to £500,000. The funds are recycled—each year the council puts additional money into the smaller of the two. Highland Prospect Ltd is now self-financing out of the repayments that it receives.We have a creditable record of support for successful companies. The failure rate of companies over the 13 or 14 years that Highland Opportunity Ltd has been in existence is 7.3 per cent. Most of the commercial banks would say that that is very good. That does not mean that we do not take risks. We want to encourage business to grow. We do the topping up, but—as our LEC colleagues do—we do not let people go into an enterprise that has a 90 per cent chance of failure. We want to steer them away from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 155653,
      "EditedText": "Is it council money that is lent to the business? You do not underwrite another commercial loan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 155661,
      "EditedText": "I was there. I am asking what your view is. Do you believe that scrutinising is what we are actually doing?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 155668,
      "EditedText": "I would argue for some elected members and for some appointed on the basis of their expertise. That is a personal view."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155670",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is a personal view."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 155673,
      "EditedText": "Mr Robertson will deal with the capital spend required, and I will take the second question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 155678,
      "EditedText": "I was also interested in your outline of a possible extension of activity for Highland Prospect, perhaps in partnership with the private sector. That seems an ambitious project for the council to embark on. It raises the question whether you are now taking the lead in the generation of enterprise interests for the area. Where does that leave Highlands and Islands Enterprise? Will it become redundant? Why is it that you can do this better than HIE can?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 155679,
      "EditedText": "It is not a question of doing it better; it is yet another opportunity. In the Highlands and Islands we must look at every opportunity to give business the chance to succeed. We are taking council assets to the table and bringing the finance and expertise of the private sector into what we expect to be a 50:50 partnership. The partnership will provide the opportunity for business to grow—which may be easier for the private sector to carry forward in Inverness—and recycle the profits from successful developments into marginal projects. We struggle with that at the moment, as, on occasion, does the enterprise network."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 155680,
      "EditedText": "That is laudable, Mr Rennilson. The prospect of your success means that you will be setting up—as you will have to do if the venture is to be monitored effectively—almost a tandem local enterprise network. You must monitor who is getting money and what they are doing with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 155682,
      "EditedText": "What level of loans do you estimate? What you have already described is very ambitious, but you are proposing to add to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCourt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 155685,
      "EditedText": "You are asking about the operation of Highland Opportunity Ltd and Highland Prospect Ltd. At present, they operate as conventional business support loan companies. HOL is also an enterprise trust, and runs the Prince's Youth Business Trust. The companies are into niches in which we can add value. With the joint-venture company, we are talking about something new and different, as the committee has recognised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 155694,
      "EditedText": "Scotland House has enormous potential for us in the Highlands and Islands. We have had a presence in Brussels for as long as I can remember but, in terms of promoting our culture there, we are just scratching the surface. I am pleased that Scotland has got its act together in Brussels and is co-ordinating its activities—I will leave aside tourism for a moment. There is tremendous potential. The European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages, for example, has a host of resources that we can tap into. We will use Scotland House to get advice and intelligence about the sort of things that we can plug into, so that we secure better resources from Europe. I represent an area that would not have had a bridge built, passing places improved or a school built without European money, which gave us additionality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCourt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 155695,
      "EditedText": "The track record of the European partnership, in the first term of objective 1, is one of the best in Europe. We are now concluding the drafting of the plan for the transitional phase of objective 1 funding and it is at this stage that we have robust arguments about priorities. It would be passing strange if the interests of the western isles were not highlighted against those of Moray or if the interests of Shetland were not highlighted against those of Argyll and Bute. The European partnership is good and it works. One of the matters that we would like to bring to the attention of the Scottish Executive is the need for local partnerships—in the western isles, in Shetland and in parts of the Highlands—to have a key role in targeting spending. All the local partners have a clear desire to ensure that there is political representation in the management of the programme, at both Scottish level and local authority level. That has not been achievable in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 155698,
      "EditedText": "We are running past our time, but I want to take another 10 minutes or so before we close for members to ask brief questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 155701,
      "EditedText": "I have a political point to add to that. Within the context of the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament, we are keen to be given the proper powers and the duty for community planning. That has been talked about, but there has been no ministerial steer on local authorities having the right to develop community planning. Although we are a pilot community planning area, we would appreciate better rhetoric from the Scottish Parliament. At the end of the day, it is fine to talk about a shared vision, but the difficulties arise when one has to reach into one's budget and spend money on something within the community plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 155705,
      "EditedText": "That will be subject to negotiation. We will seek expressions of interest from the private sector during the winter. I cannot put a figure on it at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 155707,
      "EditedText": "The rate is commercial in the sense that we will make money, but our purpose is not solely economic, but social too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 155709,
      "EditedText": "That is true of the rural areas, but not of all areas. The grouping of properties that we are considering includes land in Nairn and Inverness. In other circumstances, that would perhaps have been a one-off—we would just have advertised the land on the market, it would have been sold to the private sector and it would have gone ahead. Now, we are packaging the property with land in Fort William and an opportunity in Caithness. We are entering this joint venture with the private sector, taking the nine properties together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCourt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 155712,
      "EditedText": "I want to make one point in answer to Mr Johnston's question. We will know whether we have a commercial rate of return if we get private sector partners to work with us. We do not know that yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 155716,
      "EditedText": "Training is an associated issue. There is a huge demand for training in the new technologies, not just within the council but across all sectors. At the moment we are working with the enterprise companies and other public sector bodies, such as the police, to explore the development of information technology training centres across our area of responsibility. We must, for example, train every teacher in the Highlands in the next three years. If we establish IT training centres across our area, why should not other public bodies and the private sector use the facilities? We are therefore involved in discussions on that at the moment. We hope that Ross and Cromarty Enterprise will be able to deliver some training in the new technologies at the new school in Ullapool."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 155720,
      "EditedText": "The importance of infrastructure and of information technology in the Highlands and Islands is evident. On the problem of access to digital upgrading and ISDN lines, I assume that it will never be commercially viable for telecommunications companies to provide those facilities to certain communities. Does that mean that public subsidy is needed if such facilities are to be provided? Where might such money come from? Given that it is money for infrastructure, might it come from Europe?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155722",
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 155722,
      "EditedText": "The private sector will not be interested in coming to the Ardnamurchan peninsula, for example. There must be a European dimension and public sector subsidy. There are a few information and communications technology black holes—I happen to live in one in Ullapool, where we are trying to develop the school as an outreach facility for the University of the Highlands and Islands. However, that will be held back because there is no black pipe—as it is called—connecting us to the system. Everyone is well aware of the problem, which will require targeted investment. If that does not happen, the development of lifelong learning will be held back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 155723,
      "EditedText": "George Lyon has a brief point of clarification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 155727,
      "EditedText": "I want to stretch that a wee bit, to make four comments.First, there is a big campaign in the Highlands and Islands over fuel pricing. It is the No 1 issue, of which elements remain outstanding, including the system of uniform pricing. If one can buy a bottle of Bell's whisky—or any other brand—for the same price in Wick and Inverness, why does one have to pay more for petrol? The Office of Fair Trading is examining this issue and, as a result, the price in Inverness is the same as it is in Edinburgh or Glasgow, but the price gets higher as one moves around the area. We are all aware of that issue, but I wished to make the point. Secondly, I heard David Begg on the radio making a point about the fuel price escalator. In car-dependent areas such as the Highlands, the escalator indiscriminately taxes residents more, as they have to use their cars more. We are looking at postcode delegation and so on, but I hope that something can be done about these two issues as they are fundamental to the Highlands—they impact on every business and on everything that we try to do. Thirdly, I thank Rhoda Grant for her question on dispersal of jobs. Ninety-five per cent of jobs in the Highland Council area are decentralised. We challenge all the council's new jobs with the question whether they need to be located in the urban centre or whether they could be located elsewhere. Five jobs in Lairg or Ardnamurchan make a huge difference—they are almost comparable with 100 jobs in Inverness. My last comment deals with the uncertainty of our transport links to the outside world and the campaign on Heathrow air slots. There is a lack of certainty and no guarantee that we can reach our markets. The message sent to the rest of the world is that the Highlands is not connected—and has no guarantee of being connected—to outside areas. We are at the mercy of extreme market forces, with slots trading for between £5 million and £10 million. That is an unfair system. We think that we have won the arguments both politically and in Europe, but we require the passing of legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 155728,
      "EditedText": "I close this session by thanking David and his colleagues from the Highland Council for attending the meeting. David's concluding four points were well made. The committee will discuss next week fuel pricing and, particularly, the uniform pricing point that has been raised. The committee has already discussed the fuel duty escalator and some concern has been expressed. On dispersal of jobs, I am interested to hear of the council's testing of new employment. The issue of dispersing Scottish Executive jobs has been raised in the Scottish Parliament and the committee's presence in Inverness is a recognition of the need to reach out to the community. Members of all parties are concerned about David's important point on transport links and the link to Heathrow in particular. He talked about uncertainty in relation to flights to London. I hope that it is predictable and certain tonight, as I must use the service at 5.30pm in order to go to the House of Commons. I suspend the morning session of the meeting and advise members that we will resume at 1.30 pm. I apologise for the brief lunch break, but it should be only a little inconvenience as, courtesy of the Highland Council, catering has been provided for members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 564.0,
      "ContributionID": 155729,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 155740,
      "EditedText": "Agus ma dh'fhaodas mise, neach-cathraich, facal a ràdh mu dheidhinn nan nithean a tha ann an amhairc na Colaisde an dà chuid sa gheàrr agus an eadar-ama.Bu mhiann leis a' Cholaisde, an co-bhonn ri buidhnean eile, pròiseactan a bharrachd a chur air adhart a thogadh air na tha Sabhal Mòr a' cur ri teachd-an-tìr na sgìre:Mar a' chiad eisimpleir air an sin, bu mhiann leinn a bhith a' leasachadh is a' lìbhrigeadh cùrsa ceum anns na h-Ealain Ghàidhlig is cùrsa ceum ann an Eòlas Cultaral.Bu mhiann leinn cuideachd a dhol an sàs ann an Cùrsa Inntrigidh air theagasg air astar air sgàth agus cothrom a thoirt do dhaoine a tha an sàs ann an Gàidhlig far nach eil cothrom aca a bhith a' frithealadh cholaisdean.Bu mhiann leinn aonadan gnìomhachais ùra a thogail aig a' Cholaisde airson cur ri na h-obraichean anns a' choimhearsnachd.Bu mhiann leinn Ionad Ile a stèidheachadh.Agus Pròiseact Tobar an Dualchais a chur air bhonn chum 18,000 uair de bheul-aithris Albais agus Gàidhlig a chur air an eadar-lìon.Bu mhiann leinn cuideachd a bhith a' gabhail pàirt ann an oideachadh thidsearan Gàidhlig far a bheil fìor ghainnead aig an dearbh àm."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ContributionID": 155745,
      "EditedText": "Tha mi smaoineachadh gur e a' chiad rud a bhiomaid a' coimhead air a shon gu suidheadh leasachadh sam bith gu comhfhurtail ri prìomh amasan na Colaisde. 'S e Colaisde acadeimigeach a th' innte agus bhiomaid airson a bhith ri obraichean a bhiodh a' cur ris an sin agus 's dòcha gum faodainn eisimpleir a tharraing bho na rudan eile a tha air fhighe a-staigh far a bheil a' Cholaisde an sàs, obair can mar Cànan— buidheann foillseachaidh agus buidheann maragaideachd agus air sgàth 's gu bheil tòrr dhen cuid-obrach ann an Gàidhlig tha sin a' cur gu mòr ri obair na Colaisde 's tha e cuideachd a' ciallachadh gu bheil e a' leudachadh a' choimhearsnachd Ghàidhlig a tha timcheall na Colaisde. Mar sin bhiomaid a' sùileachadh rudan can mar teicneòlas fiosrachaidh agus obraichean dhen t-seòrsa sin a chuireadh ri obair na Colaisde. Thug mi tarraing air Tobar an Dualchais—nam b' e agus gum faigheamaid a' phròiseact sin leinn bhiodh an uair sin obraichean ag èirigh as dèidh làimh le bhith a' dèanamh feum dhen an stuth a bhiodh an sin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 600.0,
      "ContributionID": 155746,
      "EditedText": "Our first objective would be that whether any development would sit comfortably with the college's main aims. It is an academic college, and we hope to create jobs that will contribute to its work. Cànan, the publishing and marketing company, is an example of an initiative associated with the college. Because much of its work is in Gaelic, it contributes a great deal to the college's work. That also means that the community around the college is growing.We therefore look for jobs to be created in areas such as information technology that would contribute to the work of the college. I also mentioned Tobar an Dualchais, the world heritage project. Many jobs might come from that project, through people making use of the resources contained therein."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Donald Martin (Director of Community Development, Comunn na Gàidhlig): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 608.0,
      "ContributionID": 155750,
      "EditedText": "Tapa leibh. Tha sinne a' toirt sùil air turasachd cultarail agus 's e seo raon far nach eil mòran leasaichidhean air a bhith suas chun an seo. Tha sinn a' smaoineachadh gur e gnìomhachas gu math cudromach a tha ann an seo agus tha eisimpleirean againn air mar a tha leasaichidhean air an dèanamh anns an raon seo ann an Eirinn agus anns a' Chuimrigh. Tha sinn air tòiseach tòiseachaidh a dhèanamh le pròiseact anns na h-Eileanan an Iar far a bheil sinn a' dèanamh measadh air na seirbheisean 's na goireasan a th' againn an-dràsda agus an uair sin dol a thaghadh ceithir àitichean agus bhiodh sinn an dòchas a-mach as na cèithir àitichean sin gum biodh a dhà dhiubh ann an Iomairt aig an Oir, an Iomairt mu na chuala sibh an-diugh sa mhadainn. Tha seo a' ciallachadh às na h-àitichean sin gum bi cothroman cosnaidh ann, chan ann a-mhàin do dhaoine a tha a' toirt seachad seirbheisean mar àitichean-fuirich, àitichean-bidhe; tha ionadan turasachd ann far a bheil eachdraidh ionadail an àite, ginealach agus spòrs—a h-uile càil co-cheangailte ri air gnìomhachas turasachd."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ContributionID": 155751,
      "EditedText": "We are looking at culture tourism, an area where there have been few developments until now. However, it is a very important industry—we have the example of developments that have taken place in Ireland and in Wales. We have started a project in the western isles and are examining the different facilities and services that are available. We will then choose four places, two of which, we hope, will be initiative of the edge areas. In those places, not only will there be job opportunities for people providing services such as accommodation and catering, but information centres and genealogy and sports services will be made available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 613.0,
      "ContributionID": 155752,
      "EditedText": "Aon rud eile neach-cathraich a dh'iarrainn chur ris an seo, gu bheil e doirbh dha daoine fhathast a thuigsinn dè tha ann an eaconamaidh na Gàidhlig. Cha robh daoine a' smaoineachadh air a' Ghàidhlig mar rudeigin dham buinneadh eaconamaidh ann. Bha iad a' smaoineachadh nach robh ann ach dòigh air conaltradh ann an coimhearsnachdan—rudeigin dualach ach rudeigin as nach robh, mar gum biodh, dòigh air beairteas agus cosnadh a chruthachadh. O chionn sia bliadhna chaidh a' chiad rannsachadh, a chaidh a dhèanamh riamh, air luach agus measadh eaconamaidh na Gàidhlig agus buaidh an airgid a chaidh dhan Ghàidhlig a thaobh eaconamaidh na h-Alba, fhoillseachadh. Chaidh sin a dhèanamh le taic airgid bho Iomairt na Gàidhealtachd agus thug Iain MacDhonnchaidh iomradh air an sin an-diugh sa mhadainn. 'S e Oilthigh Caledonian ann an Glaschu a rinn seo agus 's e Allan Sproull agus Brian Ashcroft a bha os cionn sin. Aig an àm, dhearbh iadsan gun robh mìle cosnadh a' tighinn an lùib na bha dol a dh'airgead an sàs dhan Ghàidhlig ann an ceithir fichead 's a dhà dheug. Agus ma choinneamh na bu lugha na fichead millean bhon Riaghaltas a' dol a dh' ionnsaidh na Gàidhlig gu h-iomlan, bha còrr air a dhà uimhir sin a' dol a dh'ionnsaigh beairteas na dùthcha—chan e mhàin gun robh dùblachadh ann air luach an airgid ach bha mìle cosnadh air tighinn na lùib cuideachd. Niste, bhon uairsin, anns na seachd bliadhna bhon uairsin, tha fhios againn gu bheil na cosnaidhean a tha sin air fàs gu math nas motha cuideachd."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155753",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 615.0,
      "ContributionID": 155753,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult for people to understand what a Gaelic economy is. People never thought that Gaelic had any relation to the economy; they thought that it was just a way of conversing in communities. It was something that belonged to our heritage, but it was not a way of providing money.Six years ago, the first research on the impact of the Gaelic economy was published. Highlands and Islands Enterprise provided money for that report, as Iain Robertson mentioned this morning. Dr Allan Sproull and Brian Ashcroft of Glasgow Caledonian University carried out the research. They showed that, in 1992, 1,000 job opportunities were created by the money that was invested in Gaelic. Whereas only £20 million came from the Government, a contribution of more than twice that was made to the country's wealth.We know that, in the past six years, those opportunities have increased—there are more jobs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 619.0,
      "ContributionID": 155755,
      "EditedText": "Bheir mise a' chiad tarraing air an seo agus tha mi 'n dòchas gun tig Lachie Dick staigh an uair sin. A' chiad rud, aig a' chunntas sluaigh mu dheireadh, bha na bu lugha na trì fichead agus deich mìle de luchd-labhairt na Gàidhlig ann agus bha sinn gu follaiseach a' call luchd-labhairt na bu luaithe na bha sinn a' cur feadhainn eile nan àite agus 's e as coireach ri sin gu bheil barrachd de sheann daoine am measg luchd-labhairt na Gàidhlig. A' freagairt na ceist agad, tha iarrtas dearbhte ann bho luchd-ionnsachaidh agus ged nach eil tomhas mionaideach againn an-dràsda, thàthas dhen bheachd gu bheil rudeigin eadar còig agus ochd mìle duine ann an Alba ag ionnsachadh na Gàidhlig gu dùrachdach. Tha e follaiseach gu bheil pàrantan ag iarraidh gum faigh an cuid chloinne Foghlam tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig ach tha duilgheadasan an cois sin oir chan eil e ann mar chòir fhathast. 'S e rud a th' ann a tha sinn a' faotainn le deagh rùin agus tha sinn air leth taingeil airson an deagh rùn a tha sin ach tha sinn air a bhith beò leis an deagh rùn a tha sin a-niste airson grunn bhliadhnaichean agus 's e sin as coireach gu bheil sinne ag iarraidh gun tèid Inbhe Thèarainte thoirt dhan chànan agus gum bi còirichean aig pàrantan air Foghlam tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig, chan e rudeigin a dh'fheumas iad a shireadh le làmh nan logaidh agus an dòchas gum bi Comhairlean bàigheil dhaibh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 621.0,
      "ContributionID": 155756,
      "EditedText": "I will respond first, and then Lachlan Dick will offer his thoughts. The last census showed that there were fewer than 70,000 Gaelic speakers. It was obvious that we were losing Gaelic speakers more quickly than we were replacing them. That was because of demographic trends—the old people are dying. There is a demand from Gaelic learners. Although we do not have the exact figures, we believe that between 5,000 and 8,000 people in Scotland are learning Gaelic. It is obvious that parents want their children to be educated through the medium of Gaelic. However, there are difficulties with that because, as yet, such education is not available as a right; it is available only as a goodwill measure. We are thankful for that goodwill measure, but we have been living with it for a number of years. That is why we want secure status for our language—so that parents will have the right to Gaelic-medium education for their children. That should not be something that they have to keep scrounging for and chasing after; it should be theirs as a right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 631.0,
      "ContributionID": 155761,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure exactly why the difference exists. Communities of Gaelic speakers are scattered over a wide area and a number of island communities and Wales does not have that problem. Indeed, the situation in Ireland is similar: communities are scattered and that can create problems. Before we attempted to develop the language officially, the number of Gaelic speakers had diminished so far that our job of trying to resurrect the language was made more difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 643.0,
      "ContributionID": 155767,
      "EditedText": "Cha reid mi gum bu mhiann leam a bhith faicinn gum biodh e mar fhiachaibh air daoine anns na sgoiltean a bhith ag ionnsachadh na Gàidhlig. Mura tig iad thuige gu saor-thoileach 's math dh'fhaoidhte nach bi an obair eifeachdail ach tha e deatamach a dh'aindheoin sin a ràdh gum biodh barrachd foghlaim mu Albann san fharsaingeachd ann an sgoiltean na h-Alba 's nan robh sin a' tachairt bhithinn a' sùileachadh 's a' dùileachadh gum biodh Gàidhlig na lùib ach gur e rud a bhiodh daoine a' dèanamh gu nàdarra an àit' e a bhith air a sparradh orrra."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 645.0,
      "ContributionID": 155768,
      "EditedText": "We do not want to coerce pupils in primary schools into learning Gaelic, we want them to come to the language voluntarily; otherwise, Gaelic teaching will not be effective. Having said that, we think that Gaelic and the history of Gaelic Scotland should be more widely taught in schools. Those subjects should form a larger part of the curriculum. We do not want to force those subjects on people, but we hope that they will volunteer to study them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 649.0,
      "ContributionID": 155770,
      "EditedText": "I want to add to that and to go back to Miss Goldie's first question. Of course it is a lot easier to learn a language when one is very young, but we hope that no member will leave this building thinking that one cannot learn Gaelic, or any language, at a mature age. I hope that you are encouraged by the fact that there are people learning Gaelic who are a lot older than you are.The minority languages of Europe are getting a greater profile. Governments in countries that have minority languages are very supportive of them, and feel that they are part of the cultural richness, as does the Scottish Government. We hope that that support will continue to be given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 658.0,
      "ContributionID": 155774,
      "EditedText": "As someone who was with Western Isles Council, I can say that that option was given to parents in the Western Isles. They could choose Gaelic-medium education or could have Gaelic as part of the school curriculum. It is obvious that Gaelic-medium education is the most effective way of teaching Gaelic.We propose that people should have a choice not only as parents for children, but as adults. We are talking about lifelong learning. Part of your aim is to show what the opportunities are for lifelong learning. People should have the opportunity to learn Gaelic at any stage of their lives.It is important to note that children who receive Gaelic-medium education come out of primary schools bilingual. Some people think that they only have one language, but that is not true at all. The children are fluent in two languages. Gaelic-medium education is also, essentially, bilingual education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 662.0,
      "ContributionID": 155776,
      "EditedText": "An toiseach a thaobh an oifigich ann am Pàrlamaid na h-Alba. Nuair a rinn Comunn an Gàidhlig tagradh chun an Riaghaltais a thaobh Inbhe Thèarainte dh'iarr sinn gum biodh oifigeach dhen t-seòrsa a tha sibh ag ainmeachadh air an stèidheachadh taobh a-staigh na seirbhis agus gum biodh an t-oifigeach sin cuideachd aig ìre gus gum biodh e no i air chomas rùn na Pàrlamaid a thaobh na Gàidhlig a chur air adhart.Tha mi samoineachadh ann a bhith a ràdh sin gum feumainn cuideachd a ràdh gu bheil sinn ann an saoghal leasachaidh na Gàidhlig air leth mothachail air an taic ionmholta a fhuair sinn thairis air na bliadhnaichean bho na daoine a tha ag obair ann an Dun Eideann ann an Lunainn 's ann an iomadach àit' eile aig nach eil Gàidhlig idir 's tha mi smaoinachadh gu bheil e cudromach a ràdh ris an fheadhainn agaibh a bha faireachdainn beagan nàireach gur feumadh clogaidean a bhith oirbh airson ar tuigsinn, gu bheil sinn uamhasach mothachail air cho caoibhneil 's a tha sibh air a bhith a dh'aindheoin sin 's tha sinn a' cur luach mòr air an sin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 668.0,
      "ContributionID": 155779,
      "EditedText": "The lack of Gaelic teachers is one of the main hurdles that faces Gaelic teaching in schools. We have all seen advertisements in the paper. Sabhal Mòr Ostaig would be willing to train teachers in the Gaelic medium and, indeed, we are already training teachers to help Gaelic-medium teachers. However, there are difficulties. The training is very expensive as many subjects are involved, and other skills besides a knowledge of Gaelic are needed to undertake such training. Furthermore, we would want to be sure that, if Sabhal Mòr Ostaig and the University of the Highlands and Islands were to be involved in teacher training, such teachers would be recognised throughout Scotland and not just for Gaelic-medium teaching. We are waiting for research findings from the General Teaching Council and look forward to using those findings to improve the situation with the lack of teachers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C155780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 670.0,
      "ContributionID": 155780,
      "EditedText": "Tapa leibh. Feasgar math chàirdean. 'S iomadh ceist a tha sinn air a thogail a thaobh saoghal na Gàidhlig an-diugh agus a rèir agus mar a tha mi a' tuigsinn tha mòran dhe na trioblaidean a th' againn ann an Gàidhlig air tachairt air sgàth nach eil sinn a' faighinn cnap mhath às an sporan ann an Dun Eideann ann an Lunainn no à ge bith cò às a tha e tighinn. Tha sinn a' cluinntinn mar a tha Cuimris, mar a thàinig i air adhart, mar chànan agus mar chultar, agus nam biodh sinne air thaighin, beagan dhen taic a fhuair iadsan. Ann an iomadach dòigh anns a' Chuimrigh, tha mi làn chinnteach gum biodh Gàidhlig mòran na bu làidire na tha i an-diugh. Ach a dh'aindheoin sin, chan eil còir againn, tha mi dèanamh dheth, a bhith a' gearainn cus. Mar a tha mi fhìn, tha mi coimhead air ais can thairis air fichead bliadhna no beagan a bharrachd air an sin, tha mi faicinn na ceumannan a rinn sinn ann an saoghal na Gàidhlig. Cha robh leithid ri Sabhal Mòr Ostaig againn, cha robh mòran a' tighinn a-mach air telebhisean no air rèidio agus dh'atharraich sin. Cha mhòr nach eil sinn a' faighinn Gàidhlig air an rèidio fad an latha no pìos, cnap math dheth. Tha sinn a' faighinn nan naidheahdan ann an Gàidhlig air Tì-Bhì agus leis an sin tha mi fhìn car toilichte gu bheil a leithid sin a' tachairt ach, dh'aindheoin sin, tha mòran ri dhèanamh fhathast. Bha sinn a' cluinntinn mu dheidhinn cnap-starra far nach eil sinn a' faighinn gu leòr luchd-teagaisg a' dol a-staigh airson teagasg tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig. Carson a tha sin? Uill, chan eil mi ro chinnteach ach tha mi làn chinnteach gur e nach eil iad dhen bheachd gu bheil seo dol a' leantainn agus nach eil tuarasdal àrd gu leòr ann airson sin ach chan ann mar sin a tha sinn a' coimhead air a' ghnothach idir. Chì thu gun robh adhartas mòr air a dhèanamh: tha sinn a' teagasg ann an clasaichean Shradagan, Chròileagan agus anns na bun-sgoiltean tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig. Tha mòran dhen sin a' tachairt anns a' Ghàidhealtachd agus ann an àitean eile ann an Alba. Agus tha Sabhal Mòr Ostaig a-nis toirt cùrsaichean seachad dìreach mar a bhiodh iad ann an Oilthigh ann an Sruighlea no ann an Obar Dheathain no àite sam bith eile. Ach tha cnap-starra eadar a' bhun-sgoil agus a' cholaisde mar Sabhal Mòr Ostaig—chan eil cothrom aig a' chloinn a dhol a-staigh chun an àird-sgoile agus leantainn le bhith ag ionnsachadh tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig anns na h-àrd-sgoiltean agus gus am bi luchd-teagaisg againn airson an obair a tha dol air adhart anns na bun-sgoiltean leantainn air adhart gu na h-àrd-sgoiltean, tha mi dèanamh dheth gum bi trioblaid againn. Chan eil fhios 'am ciamar a tha sibh a' coimhead air an sin?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 674.0,
      "ContributionID": 155782,
      "EditedText": "Chanainns' an toiseach a thaobh an adhartais, gu bheil sibh ceart dha-rìribh agus tha mi smaoineachadh a h-uile duin' againn a tha sàs ann an saoghal leasachaidh na Gàidhlig, nuair a bhios sinn a' call misneachd, gum bi sinn a' beachdachadh air ais air na rudan nach robh againn deich bliadhna air ais agus a' tarraing misneachd, tha mi samoineachadh, às an sin. Thog sibh a' cheist carson nach eil barrachd dhaoine ag iarraidh a dh'ionnsaigh teagasg tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig, 's tha mi fhìn a' smaoineachadh gu bheil caochladh adhbharan ann mar a bha sibh ag ràdh ach 's e fear dhe na rudan a tha buntainn ris a h-uile pàirt de bheatha na Gàidhlig 's e dìth misneachd. Chan e idir gu bheil na daoine le dìth misneachd annta fhèin mar dhaoine ach tha dìth misneachd aca nan cànan fhèin thoireadh cha d' fhuair iad a-riamh a' mhisneachadh a tha sin a chur annta. Thàinig iad à coimhearsnachdan agus à saoghal foghlaim far nach robhas a' cur dhachaidh orra gun robh luach eaconomaigeach sam bith as a' chànan a tha seo 's bheir e greis mas atharraich thu an suidheachadh a tha sin. Agus a thaobh Foghlam tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig gu sònraichte tha e uamhasach cudromach a ràdh chun a bheil sin ann mar chòir, chun a bheil cothrom aig pàrantan an cuid chloinne a chur tro Fhoghlam tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig mar chòir, 's fhios aca gum bi sin stèidhichte mar rud a th' aca mar chòir 's nach gabh e a thoirt bhuapa, nach bi Comhairle a ràdh tha sinn gann de dh'airgead am bliadhna 's tha sinn dol a chur as dha. Aon uair 's gu bheil sin againn, cuiridh fada bharrachd phàrantan feum air. Chun an tachair sin, cha bhi iad cinnteach, cha bhi a' mhisneachd acasan as an siostam a tha sin agus aig an aon àm chan eil misneachd aig an luchd-teagaisg mar a bha sibh ag ràdh. Dè chinnt a tha aig neach-teagaisg a' dol gu Foghlam tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig an-dràsda gu bheil saoghal cosnaidh romhpa far am faod iad adhartas a dhèanamh nan dreuchd. Chan eil, chan eil sin ann. Tha sinn an dòchas gun tig e, ach chan eil e ann fhathast agus tha an dìth misneachd a tha sin, tha mi smaoineachadh, bualadh air a h-uile càil. Aon rud eile chanainn cuideachd, 's e nuair a bha sibh a' bruidhinn air ionmhas agus feum ionmhais, 's e pàirt dhen an rud a tha fìor a thaobh obair leasachaidh sam bith, co-dhiù 's e obair leasachaidh eaconomaigeach na obair leasachaidh as a bheil sinne sàs ann an seadh cultarach, ma tha thu soirbheachadh, tha an obair ag iarraidh an tuilleadh taice, an tuilleadh airgid. Agus tha fhios 'am gu feumta ràdh aig ìre a choreigin chan urrainn dhut a bhith dìreach a' cur ris a' mhaoin fad na h-ùine. Ach ma tha thu a' tòiseachadh aig ìre tha uamhasach ìosal ged a bhiodh tu a' dùblachadh na tha thu a' cur ris airson ceud bliadhna, 's dòcha nach bi thu fhathast ach aig ìre gu math beag. Tha sinne ann an suidheachadh a thaobh na Gàidhlig gu bheil sinn a' bruidhinn air rudeigin a bhuinneas do dhulachas Alba 's ma bhàsaicheas a' Ghàidhlig ann an Alba, bidh i marbh anns an t-saoghal. Caillidh sinn i. Chan eil dachaigh eile aig a' Ghàidhlig, tha e mar uallach air an rìoghachd a tha seo, air Alba, an dìleab a tha seo a ghlèidheadh. Chan eil e mar uallach air duine sam bith eile sin a dhèanamh dhuinn, tha e mar uallach oirnne agus ma tha luach againn nar cànain agus anns an dìleab a tha seo feumaidh sinn dèanamh cinnteach gun glèidh. Agus mar a thuirt mi ribh na bu tràithe, far a bheil barrachd de sheann daoine againn na tha againn de dhaoin' òga, 's na seann daoine sin gan call bliadhna thar bliadhna chan eil mòran ùine againn airson an glèidheil a tha seo a dhèanamh air an dualachas a tha seo. 'S e sin as coireach gu bheil sinn a' tighinn ann an seo gun mhasladh sam bith a ràdh ribh tapa-leibh airson na tha sibh air a chur ris an seo ach feumaidh sibh tuilleadh a chur ris ma tha sinn dol a shàbhaladh na Gàidhlig. Fumaidh maoin a bhith againn cho math ri laghan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 680.0,
      "ContributionID": 155785,
      "EditedText": "Dìreach as a' chiad dhol a-mach gun comharraichinn teicneòlas fiosrachaidh mar dheagh chothrom dhan chànan thoireadh 's e aon dhe na duilgheadasan a tha romhainn 's e cho sgapte 's a tha a' choimhearsnachd againn 's gur e seo dòigh air ceangal a dhèanamh ann an dòigh a bhios gu math nas fhasa. Tha sinn a' cur romhainn a bhith sàs ann an teagasg aig astar a' cleachdadh teicneòlas fiosrachaidh ach a bharrachd air an sin agus nas fharsainge, thug mi tarraing mar tha air Tobar an Dualchais far a bheil sinn a' sùileachadh ochd mìle deug uair de bheul-aithris Albais agus Gàidhlig a chur air an eadar-lìon agus tha mi glè chinnteach ma thèid sin leinn gum bi obraichean an uair sin ag èirigh as an sin. Chòrdadh e ris a' Cholaisde cuideachd a bhith sàs ann a bhith a' cruthachadh obraichean a' cleachdadh an eadar-lìon. Tha mi glè chinnteach gum b' urrainn dhuinn a bhith sàs ann an cùrsachan goirid a' cleachdadh nan goireasan a tha sin. Faodaidh sinn a bhith gu math cinnteach gum bi a' Cholaisde gu mòr an sàs ann an teicneòlas fiosrachaidh. Tha i cheana sas gu ìre mhath."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 687.0,
      "ContributionID": 155788,
      "EditedText": "I would like to recommend to the members of the committee that they look at our website, which attracts 100,000 people. There are many interesting facts on our website, and I urge members to visit it when they have the opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 689.0,
      "ContributionID": 155789,
      "EditedText": "Tha coimhearsnachdan eile air feadh nan Eileanan agus air Ghàidhealtachd a tha sàs ann am pròiseactan a tha gu math inntinneach a tha a' sealltainn an dualchais agus an stòras a tha aca air an eadar-lìon. Mar eisimpleir tha Taigh Arainn shìos ann an Eilean Arainn far a bheil eadar-lìon mìorbhaileach aca an sin agus iad a' sealltainn na th' aca anns an Eilean agus Eachdraidh na Gàidhlig, Eachdraidh a' Chìuil agus ginealaich an àite. Tha cuideachd eadar-lìon aca ann an sgìre Nis a tha a' toirt a-staigh pàipear coimhearsnachd agus pàirt de phrògraman rèidio. Tha sinn a' dèanamh tòiseach tòiseachaidh air ach tha tòrr ri dhèanamh fhathast agus tha cothroman mòra a' tighinn an lùib sin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 693.0,
      "ContributionID": 155791,
      "EditedText": "I spent some time in Wales and I was very aware that it was a bilingual society. Everything from road signs to cash machines is bilingual. I came away with the strong impression that, while many things contribute towards the survival and renaissance of a language, one of the key things had been the provision of Welsh-language education. Do you agree with that?To what extent do parents in the Highlands and Islands have the opportunity to send their children to receive Gaelic-medium education? What percentage of children have access to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 701.0,
      "ContributionID": 155795,
      "EditedText": "That is true. Until recently, many parents were not sure whether their children would make great strides in Gaelic-medium education or whether it would hinder them. Even some of the teachers had that misconception. Last week, however, an important report was published by Richard Johnstone of the University of Stirling which showed that Gaelic-medium education is not only important, but that children in it are doing as well, if not better, than those in English-medium education. That confirms what has already been said about Welsh-medium education. Parents who look favourably on bilingualism in general were happy with the results of the report. Europe will have many languages, not just two —it will be multi-lingual. More than 40 million people in the European Union speak a minority language, so the Gaelic situation is not unusual. The same challenges, at least to some extent, exist in other minority language countries throughout Europe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3536,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 703.0,
      "ContributionID": 155796,
      "EditedText": "Before I bring this part of the inquiry to a close, are there any final remarks?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
      "HeadingID": 3537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 709.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 736.0,
      "ContributionID": 155810,
      "EditedText": "We have about 20 minutes for questions so I would like questions to be brief and answers to be to the point."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
      "HeadingID": 3537,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 738.0,
      "ContributionID": 155811,
      "EditedText": "One of the issues that has been of concern to the committee regarding education across the board is flexibility—in terms of delivery, access points and in relation to the new Garrick qualifications framework and in relation to taking on Scottish credit accumulation and transfer scheme credits. How have you been able to achieve the flexibility you have indicated in your report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
      "HeadingID": 3537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 709.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr French: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 740.0,
      "ContributionID": 155812,
      "EditedText": "Members might like to look at the new UHI prospectus that has just been published. All the courses at UHI are designed and constructed within the SCOTCAT framework. We are extremely keen to see credit move around the network with students so that they can use it and so that the traditional barriers to cashing in credit between institutions disappear.That can happen in various ways. At the moment all our new courses and degrees within our schemes are credit-bearing and are designed as modules. Some of those modules are already starting to appear in more than one degree and can be accessed in different places.The second step is for students to be able to mix modules from different places, to take modules from one centre and to access other modules from another centre through remote learning methods. We are not yet at the stage where we want to do that across the board—we want to be certain that we can protect academic standards. We are considering a combined awards scheme that could be implemented in the next two years and could allow students to combine credit into awards from different places in the network. As part of the community learning network project, we want to establish a particular suite of modules in the remote learning format to allow students to access those from different locations in the network.Therefore, we have various ways of approaching the matter. Programmes can be constructed from modules that are available over the network; or students can move between centres and cash in their credit from one place to another; or they can access credit from different parts of the network. We are investigating those different strategies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
      "HeadingID": 3537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 709.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 742.0,
      "ContributionID": 155813,
      "EditedText": "I was interested to see that you have both engineering and sciences on your curriculum. How will you go about teaching the practical aspects of those subjects, given that it is too expensive to set up laboratories throughout the region? Those subjects are important for people's employment prospects and the work force needs to be suitably skilled if companies are to be brought into the area. I know how the Open University teaches such practical aspects, but how does the UHI do it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Duffield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 720.0,
      "ContributionID": 155804,
      "EditedText": "On the first overhead is the mission statement of the University of the Highlands and Islands project. We are not a university yet; we are seeking to create one for the people and communities of the Highlands and Islands. Over and above presenting our mission statement, I hope that the fact that we present it in five linguistic forms—in Gaelic, usefully for our colleagues from the Gaelic-speaking community, and in Shetland, Orcadian and Scots as well as English—indicates the way in which we celebrate and embrace the cultural diversity of our region and its communities. We are charged with the creation of a university, which is a historic mission. We also declare, in our mission statement, that we take on a pivotal role in the educational, economic, social and cultural development of our region. It is important to stress that we came from the community and that we embrace the task of servicing the needs of that community into the next millennium.The case for the creation of a university for the Highlands and Islands is readily made and understood. The map on the overhead shows the distribution of the existing 22 institutions of higher education in Scotland, including all the universities. All of them lie south of a line from Aberdeen to Glasgow. Historically, the absence of an institution of higher education in the Highlands and Islands has meant that many of our most talented and brightest people have had to leave to find educational opportunities elsewhere. Sadly, once they left in pursuit of educational opportunities, many of them did not return. It is ironic that the level of participation in higher education in the Highlands and Islands is among the highest in the United Kingdom.The case for a university for the Highlands and Islands, dates back to the end of the 17th century and was made against the background of a region in decline—steady economic decline and depopulation from the mid-19th century through to 1961. The creation of a university was considered a way of remedying some of those structural problems. Since the mid-1960s, the situation has changed. The population of the region has increased, as has its economic vitality. In the recent past, the call for a university in the Highlands and Islands has not been made in the context of decline but in the context of the regeneration and renaissance of the region. The university is considered symbolic of that regeneration.The creation of a university that will serve the lifelong learning and social inclusion needs of the Highlands and Islands communities in the 21st century has to address the distinctive nature of the region. The area that we serve is not only very large—it has approximately half the land mass of Scotland, 18 per cent of that of the United Kingdom, and is bigger than Belgium—it also has a distinctive geography and demography. There are 93 inhabited islands in the area, which, somehow or other, we seek to reach out to and serve in terms of creating educational opportunities.A paradox lies at the heart of the Highlands and Islands: how to overcome the tyranny of space that has bedevilled the region over the centuries and how to retain the intimacy of the place, ensuring that we conserve those myriad communities and take opportunities to them, rather than requiring them to come to us.When we last sought to create a university of the Highlands and Islands back in the mid-1960s, the Government was creating greenfield universities. Inverness, along with Stirling and Falkirk, tried to become the site of a new university that was to be located in Scotland. There was great distress at the failure of Inverness to secure the university; as we know, it went to Stirling, further ramifying the opportunities available in the central belt.Since that time, things have changed dramatically. I have already said that the region's population and economic vitality have increased. You will have heard from previous speakers that there is also a growing cultural confidence in the region. Over the same period, higher education has changed too. Universities are no longer ivory towers for young adults seeking initial qualifications for a job for life: we have moved into a period of mass higher education with a greater vocational emphasis. In terms of what we feel we can do, the Open University has broken the mould. We are looking for flexibility. We are looking for greater participation among adults of all ages. We are looking for opportunities for both full-time and part-time education.When the case for creating a university came back on the agenda in the early 1990s, the scene had therefore changed dramatically. As a result of developments in information and communications technology, opportunities were very different.I have described how the university initiative grew out of the community; it is important to share that idea with you. Many and various bodies have contributed to what I call the rainbow alliance of interests that have furthered the UHI initiative. They include not only the academic partners of the UHI—the colleges and research institutes throughout the Highlands and Islands—but the HIE network, local authorities, health boards and, importantly, community interests. We are exceedingly grateful for the cross-party support that we have secured and the way in which successive Governments have supported the development of the UHI. We have also had support from the Millennium Commission and the European Union. We have formed alliances with other universities in Scotland and beyond. We have growing relationships with universities in Iceland, Cape Breton, Norway and Finland. That rainbow alliance has driven the initiative forward.Whereas in the mid-1960s we were considering a single campus university in the largest town in the Highlands and Islands, when the issue came back on the agenda we were able to think in new ways. What we are progressing is a university of and for the region, based on a federal collegiate partnership of 14 different institutions stretching the length and breadth of the Highlands and Islands, 400 miles from north to south, and 200 miles from east to west. The institutions are of different kinds. Some are large with general further education remits, such as Inverness College, Moray College or Perth College. Some are smaller but with a similar remit, such as Thurso College, Lews Castle College, Orkney College and Shetland College. Other institutions have focused missions, such as the North Atlantic Fisheries College, which services the needs of that major industry in its community. There are research institutions such as the Marine Research Laboratory at Dunstaffnage and the industry-supported Seafish Aquaculture at Ardtoe. There is also the Gaelic college at Sabhal Mòr Ostaig, which has figured in your discussions, and Highland Theological College.The institutions are bound together by a common interest and a common identity. Although they may vary in type, they have one feature in common: they are part of their community. The concept that we seek to address in the creation of UHI is to develop tertiary education opportunities for all individuals and communities in the Highlands and Islands. We have new forms of teaching and learning, which will support lifelong learning through the development of professional and personal skills. We want to strengthen the indigenous research and development infrastructure to further our mission in terms of economic and social development, to support the region's unique cultural and environmental heritage and to act as a catalyst for economic and social regeneration. We can think in this way through the power of information and communication technology. The UHI wide-area network is graphically demonstrated on the map I am now showing. There is broadband communication, fibre-optic on the mainland and microwave technology reaching out to the more remote locations, joining every one of the partner institutions with cutting edge technology to provide interaction between them. That will allow every one of our partners, however small, to benefit from the added value of working within this overall framework. Some £25 million has been invested in the network, which apart from one remaining link to Shetland is now complete.We have sought to bring institutions together through partnership and constitutional change. In December 1998, we applied to the then Secretary of State for Scotland for designation as a higher education institution in the context of the Further and Higher Education (Scotland) Act 1992. Since that time, there has been a process of consultation, which has been progressed by the Scottish Executive. In four days' time, the second strand will include an audit by the Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education, which is examining our academic systems. The outcome of that process will be presented to the Scottish Executive, and we expect that a decision on designated status will be made early next year.Given the positive outcome of that process that we seek to achieve, we will build on our existing accreditation by the Open University validation service and move forward as a designated institution to be funded directly by the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council and then pursue degree-awarding powers, which are a precursor to university title. Members of the committee have been given copies of our strategic plan. You will understand the way in which we have sought to chart the challenges and targets for the years ahead. I am pleased to have been able to give that progress report. My colleague, John French, will now give a brief report on academic development."
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  {
    "ID": "C155817",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Duffield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 751.0,
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      "EditedText": "Perhaps I could answer the first question and then invite John French to talk about rationalisation in the curriculum.We have significantly benefited from capital investment in UHI and from on-going support from a range of stakeholders. Overall, the investment will be about £55 million into estate developments and £25 million into ICT. I am pleased to say that there will be a £10 million investment into what I call the human infrastructure of the UHI initiative.Although that capital investment has made possible the development of the initiative, there is every reason to believe that unit costs will be lower once the designation is established to draw down funding from the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council. The technology will allow for less labour-intensive forms of teaching and learning and for staff to support learning rather than simply to impart knowledge. We will be able to use the same staffing base much more effectively.Similarly, technology will make available access to learning materials, which will reduce the need for investment in expensive learning resource materials. That means that we will not have to replicate in every situation the costs that are associated with the delivery to students of those educational experiences. I cannot give you a quantifiable figure for that, but we foresee real opportunities for cost-effective provision. It is interesting to note that this model is attracting interest from around the world simply because it builds on pre-existing infrastructure and, through the medium of information technology, is cost-effective."
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "I hope that we can increase the tempo a little, so that everyone who wants to ask a question can do so."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Duffield: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is a challenging question, and I will try to give a serious answer. The dilemmas facing Inverness College are not unique. Forty of the 43 further education colleges—I think that that is the figure—in Scotland find themselves in financial difficulties. It is a sectoral problem. Our institutions are not immune from that. We can say for sure that being part of the UHI partnership has alleviated those financial problems, not exacerbated them. Each and every FE college has not only received major capital investment but is benefiting through recurrent funding from being in the partnership. We are unique, not only in Scotland but in the UK, for not being subject to restraints on growth in higher education provision. Our colleges have an opportunity to grow out of their financial problems. That option—as yet—is not available to their sister institutions elsewhere. I think that the growth statistics, which are charted in our strategic plan, are the key to getting out of this situation. I believe that problems will be overcome not by consolidation and battening down the hatches, but by working in new ways—not by shrinking the staffing base, but by enabling the staffing base to support an ever growing number of students. Yes, there is a hard reality, and we work within it, but UHI is contributing to the solution rather than to the problem."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155830",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Duffield: ",
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      "EditedText": "I thank the committee, which represents our major stakeholders, for giving us the opportunity to give a progress report. I apologise for our enthusiasm."
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:31."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C155542",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
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      "EditedText": "I want to clarify a point that George Lyon made earlier, and to ask a quick question. George said that, had Inverness been taken out of the Highlands and Islands equation, the region could have qualified for objective 1 funding. I want to confirm whether that is the case."
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  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155775",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 660.0,
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      "EditedText": "Recently there was an unedifying episode about bilingual signs. It occurred to me that it might be helpful if there were a civil servant based in the Scottish Parliament, who could perhaps be known as a Gaelic development officer and who could ensure that the interests of Gaelic, which seem to me to cross the boundaries of a lot of policy areas, such as enterprise, transport, culture, education and tourism, are not overlooked in the scheme of things, as has happened in the past. That is for Allan.Secondly, I understand that there is a shortage of Gaelic teachers, but, surprisingly, that the training of Gaelic teachers is currently dealt with at Jordanhill and not in the Highlands. Given that we are considering the University of the Highlands and Islands, do you recommend that that should be reviewed?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 155510,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to the remarks that Iain made at the start about high transport costs being a weakness of the Highland economy. I am concerned about, on the one hand, the lack of sufficient public transport and, on the other, the higher cost in the Highlands of virtually all forms of traffic—road, rail, ferry and air.I would like to know your views on two issues, which I know HIE has considered. The first is the impact of the fuel duty escalator on the Highlands in general. Do you have any ideas on how to mitigate the effects of that on extreme rural areas in particular? The second issue is the prospect of road tolls on trunk routes. I was interested to read today in our local paper, The Press & Journal, that the Government may rethink some of those policies. I would welcome that. I would also like to hear your view on the impact that the two policies that I have mentioned are having or will have on the Highland economy."
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  {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />(Inverness)<br />Wednesday 20 October 1999",
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:06"
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  {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "The first part of our inquiry will be a discussion with representatives of Highlands and Islands Enterprise, who have joined us at the witness table. I welcome you all to the meeting. First, I invite the chairman of HIE, Jim Hunter, to introduce his team, from whom we will then hear a presentation."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 155461,
      "EditedText": "Thanks, Jim. You are very welcome. We look forward to hearing from Iain."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Iain Robertson (Chief Executive, Highlands and Islands Enterprise): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 155462,
      "EditedText": "A schematic view of the Highlands and Islands indicates the scale and spread of the area, which comprises the northern half of Scotland and a sixth of Britain. With a population of 370,000 and a density of only nine people per square kilometre—against the UK average of 240 people per square kilometre—this is one of Europe's most sparsely populated regions.Thirty per cent of our people live on more than 100 islands and the mainland areas are further fragmented by mountain ranges, penetrating fingers of sea and jutting peninsulas. Sparsity and physical barriers contribute to factors such as social exclusion—particularly for the unemployed, the poorly paid and the elderly—and to higher business and living costs.When Highlands and Islands Enterprise was set up in 1991, amalgamating the powers of the former Highlands and Islands Development Board with those of the Training Agency, the 10 local enterprise companies came together spontaneously, reflecting sub-areas that were not pre-designated but had a natural sense of identity and cohesion. They also represent manageable chunks of geography.Even so, convening a local enterprise company board meeting in areas such as Orkney, the western isles or Argyll and the islands can mean a long round trip of ferries, flights or road journeys and often overnight stays for the business and community leaders who give their time and expertise, unpaid, to provide local leadership and accountability.The 10 LECs are the main delivery mechanism for the Highlands and Islands Enterprise network's programmes. Each LEC works to annually updated operating agreements and clear targets that have been agreed with Highlands and Islands Enterprise and are tailored to the needs of and opportunities in the LEC's locality.As the slide shows, each LEC is also resourced by Highlands and Islands Enterprise, partly on the basis of a formula share that reflects population, fragility, need and other factors and partly on the merits of the LEC's annual operating and business plan. The Highlands and Islands Enterprise core body sets out local development output targets and provides strategic leadership and economies of scale through the provision of central support services such as accounting, legal and personnel services. Furthermore, we implement wider Highlands and Islands programmes and major projects.I will briefly take the committee through some of the challenges and aspects of the emerging potential of the Highlands and Islands. I will then outline some of the approaches taken by the Highlands and Islands Enterprise network to overcome the problems and realise the opportunities.What are the strengths of the area? The area is experiencing an overall population resurgence from a two-century low of 320,000 in the 1960s to more than 370,000 in the most recent census.Population growth is being outstripped by employment growth. We now provide 50 per cent more jobs here than in the 1960s—the figure is rising from more than 80,000 to more than 120,000. We are helping to stimulate a strong new business birth rate per head of population.Our economy is at last beginning to diversify and become less vulnerable to national and global shocks to any one sector, such as tourism or agriculture. Examples of that diversification include biomedical manufacturers Inverness Medical Ltd; Iomart Ltd, which has located an internet service in Stornoway on Lewis; the AGM battery plant in Caithness; and Braidgrove Ltd's technology centre in Easter Ross.Inward investment is a key driver for diversification. We are starting to build a broader portfolio that includes biomedical, knowledge-based and high-tech manufacturing businesses. We are also building on our indigenous business talent and have some long-established home-grown successes such as Norfrost, which employs more than 400 people and exports to 127 countries; Walkers of Aberlour, whose shortbread you have eaten in hotels and on planes all over the world and which employs several hundred people in rural Speyside; Ortak, which is based in Orkney and is one of Britain's largest jewellery manufacturers outside Birmingham; and Grampian Records in Caithness, which produces CDs and tapes for worldwide markets.The area's export portfolio is also expanding and broadening. A joint Highlands and Islands Enterprise and Scottish Council Development and Industry survey revealed that Highlands and Islands manufacturing export sales—excluding the oil sector and whisky—more than doubled in the five years following 1991 from about £90 million to £200 million a year. At the time, that growth rate was at least equal to Scotland's overall. However, our export portfolio is particularly diverse, as it comprises a large number of small businesses in a wide range of sectors. Although trends slowed in the past two years with the rise in the strength of the pound, there have lately been a few distinct signs of re-acceleration. In the same period, the number of active exporters in the Highlands and Islands has grown by more than 20 per cent, which is several times more than Scottish rates.The rebuilding of community life and culture provides real assets for our area by generating local confidence and making unique contributions to the nation's sense of being and diverse make-up. Cultural renaissance also creates economic benefits in its own right, with, for example, 1,000 jobs in Gaelic tourism, arts and media.Our environment is also a distinct asset, providing both unique conditions for industries such as quality food, tourism and renewable energy, and a global marketing cachet and brand name. It also provides the nation with a source of renewal and perspective in today's pressurised world.The philosophy of developing people and investing in skills has penetrated deep into the area's business population of predominantly small and medium-sized enterprises and micro-enterprises, as in Kishorn in Wester Ross. Despite having less than 10 per cent of Scotland's businesses, we have produced 30 per cent of Scotland's Investors in People recognitions. Last year, the proportion of our skillseekers training while in work increased from 70 per cent to almost 80 per cent. Three years before that only 25 per cent undertook training while working.Through fostering such strengths—in partnership with our colleagues in the local authorities and others in the public, private and voluntary sectors—we intend to establish the Highlands as one of Britain's most competitive areas, in terms of lifestyle, low crime, education, social cohesion, recreation and health care. The area has a head start, because we have a shared sense of place. The people, the businesses and the communities feel a strong sense of regional identity. Organisations value partnerships and we have no shortage of local leadership for local enterprise companies.On our weaknesses, I have mentioned the area's population sparsity; it is the thinnest in Europe apart from that of the northern parts of Finland and Sweden. Highlands and Islands economic output—our gross domestic product—is still growing too slowly compared with that of Scotland, the UK and Europe. Our economy is still far too narrow and over-dependent on tourism and seasonal employment.Despite overall repopulation, we have localised depopulation, largely because of age structure and youth emigration. The map on the slide shows the most fragile areas, as well as the initiative at the edge areas, about which I shall go into further detail later.The area has a complex physical geography. There are large distances between major cities and towns; Inverness is the only town with a population greater than 40,000 and Fort William is the only other settlement with a population greater than 10,000. We have other infrastructure problems, including access to markets, high transport costs and inadequate, often poorly integrated, transport systems.As ever, major threats to the economy of the Highlands and Islands lie on the horizon. The dependence on the oil sector remains a serious issue. Employment in the oil industry is among the most highly paid in the area, but is extremely volatile. Less than a year ago, the industry employed more than 8,000 people; it currently employs closer to 6,000 and early in the new year that number will shrink by about 3,000. That will result in the loss of £100 million in direct and indirect wages, and will hit the Moray firth economy hard. Meanwhile, work for several hundred people has ceased in the Lewis offshore yard in the western isles. A small proportion of the workers have been outplaced, but the yard has gone into care and maintenance.The strong pound is affecting exports and tourism. Tourism is worth several times more per head in the Highlands and Islands than in the rest of the country, but we are losing business and market share in the context of a global trend of growth.The primary sector is under great pressure. Farming, fish catching, fish farming and the recently hit shellfish sector are significantly more important to the area than they are to Scotland overall. Localised problems are even more pronounced. For example, Orkney's dependence on beef production means that the area is suffering disproportionately from the problems affecting that sector. Similarly, farmed salmon pricing problems are hitting the western isles hard and Argyll has experienced significant job losses since the beginning of the current outbreak of infectious salmon anaemia. Sheep prices have decimated crofting and hill farm incomes. However, in my view, the greatest threat to the area would be a slackening in the overall development effort. Recovery is being demonstrated, but, after two centuries of decline, it is still tenuous and patchy.We must look to our opportunities. We are harnessing new technologies. We established a rural lead in telecommunications infrastructure; we are building on that as a means to overcome sparsity and as a gateway to knowledge-based industries and e-commerce. Our first call centre opened in 1992, in Caithness, employing 26 people; there are now more than 1,800 people in a variety of similar jobs and there is potential for many more such jobs.Inward investment is a key driver for growth and diversification. HIE's success in attracting new business, mainly in specialised high-technology sectors—both service and manufacturing—is growing and broadening the economy of the area. Last year, we attracted 18 inward investment projects, creating 1,275 jobs—a record—across the area. Those projects range from an internet service centre in Stornoway, potentially employing 60 people, a lithium-ion battery manufacturing plant in Caithness, employing 130 people—a joint venture with two Japanese companies and AEA Technology—to a call centre employing 300 people, in a problem area of Easter Ross.The development of the University of the Highlands and Islands presents another opportunity. It will make a major contribution to economic and social development, creating jobs and revenue for the area in its own right, as well as opening up access to higher education. It will provide a new auxiliary engine for developing businesses, which increasingly seek such links for research, development and the commercialisation of ideas.This year, with the Government and our local government partners, we gained European agreement for objective 1 to be succeeded next year by a major transitional funding programme of €300 million to 2005. That presents a major opportunity to capitalise on the success of the Highlands and Islands European partnership in establishing new transport and communications infrastructure, in developing business expertise and innovation and work force skills, in upgrading key aspects of sectors such as tourism and in promoting environmental sustainability.The ultimate challenge is for the Highlands and Islands to become a net contributor to Scotland. We can achieve that through the development of a productive, resilient economy, strong exports, a boosted GDP growth rate, cultural richness and a full appreciation of the unique environment as a productive resource.The strategy of the Highlands and Islands Enterprise network has evolved since its development in 1991 and its redevelopment in 1996. In the refocused strategy for 1999, the three main objectives remain consistent. HIE's main activities are summed up in the diagram. Although the individual activities fall into three groups, all those groups overlap. For example, work with businesses affects communities and individuals. Similarly, the development of confident communities and skilled individuals encourages business location and increases prosperity.The first objective is to strengthen communities. We aim to do that by promoting investment in community assets, developing community strengths and leadership—helping people to help themselves—and enhancing the value of culture and heritage.Our second concern is growing business. We will improve competitiveness by helping indigenous business with grants, loans, advice and a range of facilities. We assist new starts, attract inward investment and improve business locations through the provision of sites and premises.Our third objective is to develop skills. We match training with opportunities—skilling for the area's needs. We extend access to training opportunities—we hope to provide everyone with a job with training. We develop the training and learning infrastructure; the main example of that is the University of the Highlands and Islands project.Underpinning our strategy and our operations are a few key principles. First is sustainability—not simply environmental sustainability, but economic sustainability, relating to skilling and equipping businesses for long-term survival, so generating lasting prosperity, well-being and quality of life in the Highlands and Islands. Our second principle is inclusion. We want to ensure access to personal development, fulfilment and employment for everyone living in the Highlands and Islands.Our third principle is to work in partnership. The effectiveness of HIE and the many other bodies represented today depends on aligning plans, objectives and resources. Our best projects are joint projects. Some examples are the European partnership, the multi-agency Highland Wellbeing Alliance, project partnerships, such as the Aviemore redevelopment partnership, and the local economic forums that bring together LECs and local councillors.A further principle is accountability. This network has pioneered key areas of public sector openness and transparency in the LEC board appointment processes. The HIE network will continue to lead the way.Another fundamental principle is value for money. We ensure that the maximum development value is obtained for the public sector and private sector pounds that we leverage, and we will employ the best possible measurement practices to test that continuously. In short, our watchword is responsibility.To round off, I shall show a couple of slides on outputs and value for money. The network has made a substantial contribution to employment in the Highlands and Islands, creating nearly 25,000 jobs over nine years. I mentioned the importance of inward investment, but you will recognise that our main job remains to work with our home-grown businesses to enhance competitiveness, employment and income. I have stressed our commitment to achieving value for money and, as committee members will see, the results are increasing employment and output against a real-terms decline in our grant-in-aid over the period.The Highlands and Islands region is in the process of getting back on its feet. Two keywords are progress and legacy. Significant challenges remain, but the area is at last showing its potential and is demonstrating that, given a reasonable chance, it can provide a good life for its people. It can make a valuable contribution to the economy, to the environment and to the cultural well-being of the nation. In that vital task, we look forward to the Parliament's continuing interest, to liaising with the committee, and to the committee's support in the years ahead. Thank you."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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      "EditedText": "How does that translate into the practical choices that face the network? You will find no lack of support in this committee for increasing value for the public purse through economic development and other expenditure. The question is whether the strategic horizons that are expected of Highlands and Islands Enterprise can be delivered on a declining real-terms budget."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155470",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 155470,
      "EditedText": "The area has not lost any projects through lack of funding, but there is often a fine line between viability and non-viability. We have had to be firm with applicants on the level of available funding, and the LECs must be firm in reviewing cases. A development agency must always take account of displacement and additionality criteria, but the declining grant, in real terms, at the level of output cannot go on. We will not sustain output level without some real-terms accommodation in funding for the development agencies in the area."
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  },
  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hunter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
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      "EditedText": "I offer a further thought on that. Although our grant aid to projects is focused on development, development in a rural area such as this is not solely about the injection of capital, although such aid is critical and I do not want to minimise its importance. However, one of the great strengths of the network—with which I have been involved in various capacities and at different levels since its inception—is that local enterprise companies are now able to work closely with businesses and communities in the localities in a way that was not possible within the previous, more centralised set-up. The network is therefore a marked improvement on what existed before.As part of the overall process, at all levels in the community, we are involved in projects and partnerships with others that increase local confidence. It is difficult to measure that, although we are making some attempts to do so. I am convinced that creating that confidence must be one of our aims."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155472",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 155472,
      "EditedText": "Mr Robertson, you mentioned that HIE was formed in 1991 and that there are 10 LECs. There are two parts to my question. First, does HIE propose to reappraise the number of LECs or how they operate, given that eight years have passed? Secondly, in your slide, there seemed to be a fairly close pegging between allocation of resources and population. The exception was the western isles, for which the formula share was the predominant factor, for reasons that we can all understand. Is the allocation of resources prescriptive, or do you anticipate that there may be a departure from the population aspect as a result of changing circumstances and technology?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
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      "EditedText": "In answer to your first question, we have no proposals to change the LECs; that would have to be done through the Scottish Executive. We find that our LECs are, as Jim Hunter said, particularly close to their customers. Bottom-up development really works—that is our message. The LEC in Skye has 12,500 people in its catchment area. It is very accessible and has been one of the most successful LECs in the country in terms of Investors in People awards and various other things. The form of local development in our area is increasingly the subject of interest from across Europe and the wider world.There is an anomaly in the Moray, Badenoch and Strathspey area, because we share the management of that LEC with Scottish Enterprise. That situation has been considered several times and both Highlands and Islands Enterprise and Scottish Enterprise are relaxed about whether one or the other should take it over entirely. The LEC, too, is relaxed about a change, but no change has ever come about. The system works relatively well at the moment but it could probably be improved if people wanted that.I will ask Tracey to answer the question on the allocation of resources, as she is deeply involved in that work."
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  {
    "ID": "C155477",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 155477,
      "EditedText": "Eighty per cent of our budget is spent by or for the LECs, but I am not sure how much—"
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155479",
    "Meeting": {
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      "EditedText": "If my mental arithmetic is any use, that means that you are talking about perhaps 12 per cent that may be moved around in any given year to reflect market reality."
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  {
    "ID": "C155480",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
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      "EditedText": "That does not happen every year. For example, the Aviemore town centre project went slowly for a couple of years. During those two years, we had inward investment opportunities from Inverness Medical and AGM batteries, so we were able to enhance Caithness and Sutherland Enterprise's budget to deal with the AGM development, and Inverness and Nairn Enterprise's budget to deal with the Inverness Medical development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 155485,
      "EditedText": "The Highlands and Islands European partnership, comprising ourselves, local authorities and other bodies, has been hugely successful and is regarded in Europe as a model for how other areas should work. Over the first few years of objective 1, we have learned how to work together and we have learned some lessons about how to spend in the future. You mentioned tensions in the plan group—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 155487,
      "EditedText": "There have been minor tensions. For example, some people want more for fishing and some want more for agriculture or for something else. However, there have been no major tensions. In fact, the only real tension in the plan group concerned a portion of the plan—on agriculture—that was due to come from another department. The plan as it is now drafted is very good. The biggest hurdle that we will face will be getting it through Europe. Europe likes to have a plan with lots of fine detail, which will then be adhered to over a five-year period, but life is not like that. A plan with fine detail for five years will not be appropriate for dealing with some of the problems that arise during that period. The general plea from the Highlands and Islands partnership to Europe is for flexibility—we want to be able to create schemes under the plan that will devolve spending and authority to the bodies in the area that are good at running development and infrastructure projects. Councils are superb at organising projects such as the Eriskay causeway, which has just started, and the Uist-Harris ferry. Excellent projects such as those can be safely delegated to local areas, as can schemes such as the HIE tourism attraction scheme. We also operate HIE waste schemes—a programme for bringing business waste problems to the fore and addressing them in an environmentally friendly manner—and HIE standards, for upgrading tourist businesses. What we are all looking for from Europe is flexibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 155491,
      "EditedText": "I will answer the first and last parts of your question and ask Tracey to answer the middle part.We have conducted surveys and found out that 66 per cent of the businesses whose start-ups we assist survive more than 18 months. The majority of the indigenous businesses that we invest in survive in the long term. On average, at least 75 per cent of the jobs that we estimate will be created are created. In some local enterprise company areas, more than 100 per cent of the estimated figure has been achieved. We have a good success rate in on-going business activity. We operate aftercare with Highland businesses. Many of the LECs have adopted what we call an account manager system—the committee may want to question Lochaber Ltd about that as it piloted the scheme. One of the useful things about LECs is that, if one of them comes up with a good idea, the others pick it up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 155496,
      "EditedText": "Of the businesses that start up, how many do you assist?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Slaven: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 155498,
      "EditedText": "There are about 2,400 a year on average in the Highlands. We assist about 260 a year—just more than 10 per cent—through our business start-up scheme. About 100 new business start-ups go through our finance for business programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 155499,
      "EditedText": "You reckon that you assist about 10 per cent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 155504,
      "EditedText": "The potential for the digital telecommunications network is huge. Of course, networks have to be upgraded. We are constantly in dialogue with the mobile phone companies and the major telecommunications companies such as British Telecom and Scottish Telecom and we work with them to upgrade the networks wherever we can. Occasionally, we get caught out by a problem such as long lines into a village. In the case of Kinlochleven, Database Direct was not getting the assurances on future maintenance that it wanted. That assurance has since been given to the company and British Telecom has moved to ensure that engineers will be available 24 hours a day. That will ensure that Database Direct can get the support that it needs to operate a 16-person call centre that is situated about as far up a Highland glen as it could be.We are constantly trying to move the technology forward. Another major telecommunications initiative would involve our putting in £6 million and British Telecom putting in £20 million. We do not think that that will happen, but we need to keep pace with technological change. We have made three major telecommunications thrusts in the Highlands: the ISDN initiative and subsequent upgrading and the mobile telephony initiative, which will bring mobile telephony to 95 per cent of main Highland roads during the next year. Those are the major areas of investment now, but more investment will be needed as technology advances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Slaven: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 155505,
      "EditedText": "On sustainability, you raised the question of increased focus on maintaining start-up companies. That is being emphasised at present. As you will be aware, Argyll and the Islands Enterprise has a new business programme, which is partly funded by Europe. In the first years of its operation, that concentrated on starting large numbers of small businesses. The focus of the programme is changing; it will now be on sustaining those businesses in the longer term, now that the untapped demand has been released."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 155507,
      "EditedText": "My question was about the thrust of the next plan and how you will address the problems that are faced by the western areas, where the level of GDP per head stands at 70 per cent of the average."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 155522,
      "EditedText": "In your opening statement, Mr Robertson, you talked about oil-related and gas-related employment. You indicated, I think, that that had involved 8,000 people, that that figure has now dropped to about 6,000, and that you think that it will drop by about a further 3,000—50 per cent—over the next six months. How important are those jobs to the Highlands and Islands economy overall? How important do you see oil and gas employment in the longer term, particularly if there is continued exploration west of Shetland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 155516,
      "EditedText": "Frankly, it is our people rather than our packages that have attracted inward investment to the area. High-tech industries need a high quality of work force, and we have that in the Highlands. We have adjusted our training programmes to ensure that we are providing the kind of training and upskilling that our workforce will need to be adaptable and to attract inward investors in future.We are also able to offer a good package. We have worked closely with Locate in Scotland. The Inverness Medical Ltd inward investment was worked on jointly by HIE and Locate in Scotland. The AGM Batteries Ltd joint venture in Thurso was negotiated by the chief executive of Caithness and Sutherland Enterprise, who did an excellent job.We have a good team that works closely with Locate in Scotland. We try to move fast, because we are in competition with many other countries, including Ireland and Israel. Inward investment takes a huge amount of effort. We do not travel abroad or duplicate the work of Locate in Scotland to any great extent. If we go abroad to visit a potential client, we ensure that Locate in Scotland is informed and, if it wants to be, involved.Our other selling point has been the telecommunications infrastructure. A lesson for other rural areas in the country would have been to ensure that the basic infrastructure—soft and hard—is such that the footloose industry available in this changing world can be attracted. That is where we have scored, perhaps, over the Borders.Inward investment is a tough game. Its value to us is as the quickest way of broadening the economy. A broad economy is hedged against the downturns in any particular commodity. It has been our aim to achieve that, and I think that the Scottish economy as a whole has to be as broad as possible. Downturns in individual commodities will not stop. In fact, with the changes going on in the world, they will accelerate. Ten years ago, windows were things that we looked out of."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 155517,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that thought."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 155519,
      "EditedText": "Just before you start, I must ask for brief questions and brief answers. We have not got much time left."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 155520,
      "EditedText": "I will not give a political speech, convener: I acknowledge your comment.Your organisation, Iain, is really a strategic one: obviously, you have to look forward. We have heard a little bit about how you have succeeded in the past, but what are your infrastructure priorities for the future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 155521,
      "EditedText": "The one that we are trying to finish off is that of mobile telephony. It was all very well having good fixed telephony, but we need mobile telephony, which will open many other doors—by that I mean changes in the signals and data which can be sent using mobile telephony.Roads and road access are never terribly popular subjects; the roads budget is always the easiest to attack. The Mallaig road, for example, needs attention. Mallaig is an extremely important fishing port. The large trucks still have to use what is, in places, a single-track road. We could have done with a better road between Inverness and Aberdeen. Anyone who travels that road knows that it is dangerous and busy. We might have had more oil-related activity if that were a better road. The A9 has made an enormous difference.I mentioned infrastructure, ferries and the Eriskay causeway. That has been going ahead now. We have been working with Western Isles Council on that: it will be a welcome improvement that will save the island of Eriskay from continuing decline. The University of the Highlands and Islands is a piece of softer infrastructure, but it is infrastructure none the less.Those are all priorities for the future, and we are examining satellite technology, ASDL—asymmetric digital subscriber lines—and a wide range of other technologies.Many of those infrastructure matters are not entirely in our gift, so we must create partnerships with Government and with private industry to make them happen. For example, the mobile telephony partnership is between CellNet and Vodafone which, historically, have not talked a lot together. They joined together, however, to bring mobile telephony to the Highlands. That partnership involved funding from us, the European Union and a huge chunk from those two companies. This is what we are trying to do: create networks of interested parties to further the opportunities throughout the area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 155524,
      "EditedText": "My questions will be brief. I rather think that the answers may be long.On page 67 of the Highlands and Islands Enterprise glossy, the 8th Report, one of the key objectives is \"Developing Skills\". It appears from the figures that you have spent £2.5 million less than was projected under the headings \"Skillseekers\", \"Training for Work\" and \"Projects & Marketing\". Secondly, in your presentation you briefly mentioned population shift from the western isles and the west of the area that you cover. You mentioned leading edge and working at the edge, and you were going to return to that. Thirdly, could you comment on the value of sporting estates and land to the Highland economy? How might that be affected by the rating of sporting estates and land reform proposals? How do you think that the university for industry might impact on the Highland economy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 155529,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should leave that controversial issue for now."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Palmer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 155531,
      "EditedText": "Your first question concerns partnership. We rely on intermediaries, training providers, colleges and others for help, particularly when social inclusion and access is involved. Access is probably the single biggest issue in the Highlands and Islands, given the sparsity of population, low population densities and the need to travel. For example, a youngster living in Berneray might work away from home in Balivanich and might have to attend Lews Castle College in Lewis for 10 weeks a year. Quite simply, someone has to pay for that and we do our bit in picking up the tab.On SVQs, the skillseekers model was designed to improve quality and to provide jobs with training—not training with a job placement, which is another important distinction. We chose vocational qualifications as our quality mark. Eighty per cent of our youngsters will be in jobs, working towards vocational qualifications where appropriate. We also train in areas where vocational qualifications are not available.Inward investment was mentioned earlier. We listen to our customers, who are inward investors, and find that they are looking for computing skills. The European computer driving licence is a short-term course, lasting four to six weeks, which readily skills people and equips them for job interviews in a call centre. We use whatever method is appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 155541,
      "EditedText": "The last question in this section will be from Rhoda Grant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 155543,
      "EditedText": "We did qualify for objective 1 funding. We received the same amount of money as we would have, had we been designated an objective 1 area. We did not get the label of being one of the poorest areas of Europe. We got the cash without that questionable accolade.Inverness is a two-edged sword for the Highlands. It is of huge benefit to the Highlands as a hub: it has the major airport and it is a major shopping centre. That has upsides and downsides. However, Inverness brings a massive population—a critical mass. The amount of money that would have been available to the Highlands and Islands without Inverness's population would have been much smaller.One does not have to travel very far from Inverness to find areas that are struggling. Nairn, for example, 12 miles from here along a busy road and once a seaside town, has declined over the past 20 years. Only now is a resurgence taking place, with Cap Gemini locating there. We seriously hope that that company will expand substantially, producing a renaissance in Nairn. A number of hoteliers in the town have refurbished their premises. Nairn did a magnificent job of hosting the international Walker cup, and we were very proud of the effort that the golf club and the people in the town put in. It was one of the most successful Walker cups that there has ever been.The Highlands is capable of hosting that sort of event. The ability of Inverness to act as a magnet and as a hub for the rest of the Highlands should not be underestimated. It is very important to the rest of the region."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 155544,
      "EditedText": "We have overrun our time and have not covered nearly half the ground that I would like us to have, so I suspect that we will meet again. Before closing this part of the meeting, I would like to ask you to make any other remarks that you would like to give in evidence. I will say a few words at the end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 155546,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Iain. I thank all the representatives of HIE who have appeared before us this morning. I found this an interesting and stimulating evidence-taking session.I said at the outset that we were conducting an inquiry into local economic development services, vocational training and business support services. We have not touched on those issues quite as much as I would have liked, and we will have to revisit them. Highlands and Islands Enterprise may want to take up our invitation to make written submissions to the committee. That would be very beneficial, because if we are able in advance to see your thoughts in writing, we will have a clear idea of what lines of argument and what approach to take with you.Our objective in the inquiry is to uncover best practice and to recommend it to the Scottish Executive. I sincerely hope that we find a good deal of best practice within the Highlands and Islands network and in the partnerships with other organisations that we will hear about later today.We have been joined by John Farquhar Munro, a local member, whom I welcome to the committee. We will take a short break before moving on to the next item. Thank you once again for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 155548,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Jackie Wright (Chief Executive, Lochaber Ltd): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 155550,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I am Jackie Wright, the chief executive of Lochaber Ltd, the local enterprise company for the area of Lochaber in the west Highlands, which covers some 2,000 square miles and stretches from Laggan in the east to Ardnamurchan and the small isles in the west. It includes Mallaig and Knoydart, and stretches down to Kinlochleven and Jura. Lochaber boasts Britain's highest mountain, Ben Nevis; its deepest loch, Loch Morar; and the most westerly point on the British mainland, at Ardnamurchan. Our population is just over 19,500, 11,500 of whom live in the Fort William area. That indicates that the rest of the area has a very low population density.The main economic generator is tourism, which accounts for more than 30 per cent of our gross domestic product. Lochaber also has a large food sector, dominated by fish and shellfish processing. Although the majority of our businesses employ fewer than 20 people, we have four major employers in the area: Alcan, Arjo Wiggins Ltd, Marine Harvest McConnell and Foster Yeoman. Unemployment in Lochaber has been lower than the high average over the past three years, although we experience seasonal fluctuations because of the dominance of tourism. Lochaber Ltd's budget, negotiated with HIE through the business planning process, is around £2 million a year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gordon Cox (Chief Executive, Ross and Cromarty Enterprise): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 155551,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. My name is Gordon Cox and I am the chief executive of Ross and Cromarty Enterprise. We, too, cover an area of 2,000 square miles, stretching in the east from the Black Isle to the Dornoch firth, and in the west from Lochcarron to north of Ullapool. The area has a population of 50,000 people. It is a tale of two halves—the west and the east. The west—west Ross—has about 15 per cent of our population, and the east accounts for the rest.In the west there is crofting, upland farming, inshore fishing, fish farming and tourism. In the east, there is manufacturing—already this morning we have heard about BARMAC. There is oil fabrication, engineering, a service sector, food and drink, food processing, farming and tourism. In east Ross, in particular, there is increasing diversification of our economic base—we have, for example, a major manufacturer of carbon fibres and several information technology service and communication centres.Unemployment is running at 6.6 per cent in the east and 4.6 per cent in the west. However, it tends to be quite seasonal, because of tourism. During the winter months, we would expect the unemployment figure to rise. Unemployment in the east is higher than the Highland average.At the moment, our major concern is the cyclical nature of work at the BARMAC oil fabrication yard. We have a couple of areas of social exclusion, in Alness and in seaboard villages and fragile areas in south-west Ross. Our budget is between £6 and £7 million, depending on the projects that are running in a particular year. Last year, it was more than £8 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 155554,
      "EditedText": "I have not experienced any great areas of overlap or confusion. We have conducted surveys of businesses and individuals in Ross and Cromarty—I understand that similar surveys have taken place across the Highlands—asking people whether they know about what their local enterprise company does. We have had some encouraging results from such exercises, which are done regularly. People in Ross and Cromarty know about Ross and Cromarty Enterprise.There is no enterprise trust in Ross and Cromarty, so we are responsible for local delivery of the sort of services that have been described. We have 55 skillseekers contracts at the moment, of which 40 are directly with employers. That is a key feature of the way in which our economy operates. We try to make ourselves as available as possible and are open one day a week in Wester Ross and advertise widely in the local press."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 155555,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned that, for training contracts, your organisation contracts with 55 other organisations to deliver training, but has contractual responsibility for 40 individual enterprises."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155556",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 155556,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 155557,
      "EditedText": "Would it therefore be correct to say that Ross and Cromarty Enterprise is effectively a one-stop shop for anyone who is looking for economic development, training or business support services?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155563",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 155563,
      "EditedText": "In the western isles, the local enterprise company is seen as the first port of call for economic development. The local council in our area has a stronger presence in terms of economic development than is the case in other LEC areas, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. The council has its own priorities and imperatives and its own budgets, which can only benefit the overall economic development effort in the area. The key to making it work is partnership and that happens throughout a huge range of activities in the western isles area. The western isles oil group—comprising private businessmen, local landlords, the local council and the local enterprise company—tries to promote oil-related economic development. There are also innumerable examples of collaboration between the careers service, educational organisations and businesses. The situation may change or it may stay the same, but we accept it as it stands and try to capitalise on its strengths rather than create problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 155566,
      "EditedText": "The format of this committee is slightly redolent of \"Blind Date\" in that my question is for witness No 3. Laughter. I have three questions, the first of which is a general one to which any of the witnesses may respond.The significance of training provision has been mentioned. I understand that, when dealing with the LECs, private training companies have to be audited independently by each LEC. Is that a duplication of resource and facility?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155568",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 155568,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Mrs Wright. Does that apply to the other two LECs that are represented here?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C155569",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 155569,
      "EditedText": "Because of the geographical difficulties in the area, there is a wider group of training providers in the western isles than in other LEC areas. We have established a network of training providers in all the main island population centres of the western isles. They are small businesses in their own right and they bid competitively each year to win the contracts. They are obliged to achieve quality standards before they can be put on the tender list."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155573",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 155573,
      "EditedText": "That is an option, certainly. I would not rule that out."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155574",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 155574,
      "EditedText": "That is interesting."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 155579,
      "EditedText": "We have heard a great deal, particularly in this area, about the flexibility of the system in relation to the LECs. All of us, who have begun to understand at first hand the geography of the Highlands area, appreciate the value of that. Bearing in mind that you are here to represent the LEC situation, for the purposes of this committee—and notwithstanding that your bosses are arranged along that wall over there—do you feel that, given the different and contrasting natures of the areas that LECs represent, they should have a degree of autonomy that would enable them to be sensitive to their particular areas? Or do you feel that, in a sense, LECs are steered by a global policy that is devised by Highlands and Islands Enterprise?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155580",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 155580,
      "EditedText": "I shall give you an idea of what is happening as we speak, at the start of our business planning process for the coming year. I shall use the example of the western isles, as that is the one that I know best. The process begins with each member of staff of the LEC being consulted about performance in the previous year, how they feel they have done in their job and in their department, the lessons they have learnt and the suggestions they have heard. Those feed into a system with their managers. The managers meet the chief executive and begin to formulate the business plan in draft form. The draft is presented to the local enterprise company board for final consideration. As part of the planning process, we consult other local agencies. We have started the community planning process and we are establishing a local economic development forum with key agencies in the area. All those procedures are followed each year when we create a business plan. It is a fairly wide-ranging exercise that gives many individuals and organisations a chance to contribute to the business planning process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 155587,
      "EditedText": "I want to follow Annabel Goldie's line of questioning on local autonomy and control. From my involvement with the local enterprise company, I recall that the total spending limit on any project was about £15,000. That was all that was under the control of the local enterprise company, which limited its ability to make decisions. Do you feel that that type of system inhibits you in taking on projects and developing them, because spending controls must be relayed to Inverness for decision making?I ask that question of all three contestants. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 155592,
      "EditedText": "Yes, £50,000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 155593,
      "EditedText": "I agree entirely with what Gordon has just said. An important fact for the customer is that although the delegated limits exist, the process is as quick as it can be. HIE meets weekly to make decisions on cases that go beyond LEC delegated limits. Once a case has passed before our board, it is not unduly held up by going through another loop in the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155600",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 155600,
      "EditedText": "Displacement is one of the three key criteria that we investigate as part of any case. The three criteria are additionality, viability and displacement. For example, in the honeypot of Fort William—which is a major tourist area—our board took the decision, some years ago, not to assist the funding of additional bed spaces on grounds of displacement. For Eigg, Knoydart, the initiative at the edge area and Kinlochleven, we have now made the policy more flexible, recognising that there is a need for accommodation if we are to encourage more tourists into those areas. Before making the policy more flexible, we usually carried out an audit of accommodation in areas that we were considering.As far as specific cases are concerned, any applicant who seeks assistance will have to demonstrate displacement. In Lochaber, the issue of displacement is considered not just on a local basis. Obviously, we would ask colleagues in HIE to give us an indication of the Highland and Scotland-wide displacement of certain industries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 155601,
      "EditedText": "I have two variations on the theme that George Lyon and Annabel Goldie have explored, about your relationship with the centre. Mr Iain Robertson paid a compliment to the enterprise network within the enterprise area and gave us an exposition on the funding formula used to distribute funds to local enterprise companies. Do you believe that the funding formula addresses the LECs' competing claims between economic opportunity and economic need?My second question is about innovation. Are you satisfied that the existing mechanism keeps chief executives abreast of developments in innovation and best practice in other local enterprise areas?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155603",
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 155603,
      "EditedText": "Is that contained in the operating plan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 155606,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that, for example, you would be made aware as a matter of routine of developments in the Argyll and Islands enterprise area, which George and I cover, and would benchmark that against your own performance? Are such developments monitored routinely, or is it merely a matter of as and when?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 155609,
      "EditedText": "There is a formal mechanism for doing that. Each LEC issues detailed monthly reports to the core and those reports are readily available to other LECs. Every month, HIE reviews those reports, which include full financial details, how we are doing against our targets and issues of importance to each LEC."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 155612,
      "EditedText": "Each year, we have to address 12 core targets including job creation, leverage and cost per job. The target for Lochaber Ltd that you chose was the business start-up scheme for unemployed people. In fact, Lochaber has had the highest business start-up rate per head of population for the past two years. Unfortunately, the target that you chose relates to our financial assistance to unemployed people through the Government scheme. Our unemployment rate over the past two years has been significantly low. However, hidden behind that is a vast array of products and services that we offer to the large number of new businesses that start up in the year.The targets are taxing. We are asked to examine not only the input that we give to projects, in terms of staff, resources and money, but the hard output—the activities and performance measurements over time—against those targets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 155614,
      "EditedText": "I will follow the same line of questioning on targets; I shall address my question to Gordon Cox because I have figures for Ross and Cromarty Enterprise. The HIE report says that you had a target of 82.5 per cent for property occupancy rates and that you achieved 75 per cent. In the next year, you adjusted your target down to 75 per cent in an attempt to meet them.I would like to ask about speculative property development. Jackie Wright touched on that, saying that such development happens when money is available. How do you decide how to build properties speculatively, and what criteria does HIE apply?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 155615,
      "EditedText": "Those are two specific questions; I will deal with the first, on the arithmetic of targets. That target has apparently come in line with achievement because Ross and Cromarty Enterprise sold some property last year. Property that is sold, is, by definition, already let, and property that is not sold is unlet. It is a stretching target, even though the arithmetic appears slightly bizarre.That leads us to the question of property development. It is widely recognised that little speculative industrial property has been built by the private sector in the Highlands for some time. There are a variety of reasons for that. The HIE network has undertaken some of that and has helped to generate more money to continue it by selling properties. There is a history that indicates that, if we locate a factory or office in an appropriate place, it will be let. There is an element of risk, and we need to take the best information, and consider the market trends and previous inward investment, to take a punt. That is the situation in Ross and Cromarty.The Alness point development is a good example. One building was sitting there for quite some time. People may have felt that the project was over-ambitious. However, the building is now let to a locally grown company, backed by Graham Technology, a large software company. It is reaching its targets. If that office had not been built, we would not have had the same opportunity at Alness point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 155621,
      "EditedText": "That is correct. To give an example, we received market information from HIE over the past three years indicating a move away from large call centres of 200 to 300 seats—some of our colleagues in larger LECs have been successful in encouraging them—to smaller call centres. We speculatively built a call centre at Glen Nevis business park 18 months ago. It is a 50-seat call centre, with a full telecommunications infrastructure. Although it is not let, 15 potential inward investors have looked at the site. My next move will be to ensure that expansion is possible when that is let.We are involved in property development because the private sector cannot and will not build for the rate of return that we expect. In Lochaber, we are considering smaller property developments in the more remote and fragile areas. We built two very small units—750 sq ft each—in Kilchoan, two years ago. One of them is already let and we have three potential tenants for the other. That gives me the confidence to have another project ready, using money from HIE to build another two small speculative units."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C155624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 155624,
      "EditedText": "We have a social inclusion partnership in Alness that is specifically targeted on Westford and Milnafua. It is led by the local area Highland Council. The plan is being drawn together and co-ordinated by a group that meets on a regular basis. That group includes representatives of the community, representatives of different departments of Highland Council, Ross and Cromarty Enterprise, the careers and employment services and any others who may be brought in. A wide range of people are working together. At the end of each meeting, we make a list of action points so that everyone knows exactly what to do and to whom to speak. The community groups attend the meeting and have the opportunity to talk to people. At the end of the day, it is about identifying the specific needs of the individual and the job opportunities open to them. It is not so much about having a programme that does everything for everybody—it is about tailoring the part of the programme that works for an individual."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 155626,
      "EditedText": "Yes—and if there was not such a partnership, relationships would be more fragmented."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155628",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 155628,
      "EditedText": "In our experience, individuals access the network safely irrespective of which door they go through. However, I echo what Jackie Wright said—by and large, people regard Ross and Cromarty Enterprise as the first port of call. But it really does not matter if the person goes to the employment service, the careers service or the local council—the networks are such that the support is there."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155631",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 155631,
      "EditedText": "You describe HIE as a super-LEC. I do not know why you describe it in that way, because anyone in our area who approached HIE for assistance would be naturally guided back to Lochaber Ltd. HIE has services and expertise that we are able to use.I used the word complementarity earlier, and I reiterate that. As John Rennilson said, there is a strong and close working relationship between Lochaber Ltd and our local authority and local area committee. Working in partnership enables us to undertake many projects. We do not have enterprise trusts, so we are the first and last port of call for assistance. Because we are relatively small in numbers, few people fall through any gap."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 155633,
      "EditedText": "We do not feel that we are in competition."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155634",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cox: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 155634,
      "EditedText": "One of the differences that I perceive concerns the social remit, which is specifically within the remit of the Highlands and Islands network. That helps to take away any potential for tension, because it means that we have, in many ways, a common agenda and vision. Although we have different things to deliver, we have a common aim. Sustainability, which was mentioned earlier, fits more comfortably when the social remit sits alongside the environmental, cultural and economic remits. The potential for tension evaporates under those circumstances, provided that there is sufficient flexibility in the funding mechanisms, as we have in Ross and Cromarty."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155636",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 155636,
      "EditedText": "It is worth while to stress the issue of community planning at the lowest level, and the way in which it fits into the wider structure, all the way up to the highest strategic objectives. If we do not work closely with the community and do not include it in all respects, the final plan cannot be as competent as it might be. Through the initiative at the edge, local groups have been set up with local committees, with resources provided for their staff, to develop their plan for their area. It is worth applying that principle and spreading it more widely."
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  {
    "ID": "C155640",
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    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Wright: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 155640,
      "EditedText": "Do we know who won the date and who it is with? Laughter."
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 155641,
      "EditedText": "We do not know yet, but I am sure that Annabel Goldie fixes such things for us."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155642",
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      "ID": 822
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Arthur McCourt (Chief Executive, Highland Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 155646,
      "EditedText": "I will try to keep my presentation brief, but I hope that members will bear with me as I try to outline what we want for the Highlands in the next millennium. I might tempt the committee with a few points on which members might want to ask searching questions.We want to create learning communities that are prosperous, safe, healthy, capable and sustainable. Although that trips fairly easily off the tongue, it is important to remember that that is not the vision of some bright young things in a policy unit somewhere but the product of an extensive process of listening and discussion with communities and with the business and voluntary sectors. It is the framework that underlies the community plan of the Highland well-being alliance, which supports the statutory structure plan, for which Highland Council is responsible, and our still embryonic community learning strategy.The well-being alliance is a core partnership and comprises Highlands and Islands Enterprise, the health board, Scottish Homes, the police, Scottish Natural Heritage, Highland Council and representatives of the business and voluntary sector. I do not claim that it is a perfect partnership—you would quickly shoot me down if I did—but it is robustly based on four simple principles: sharing information; working together instead of defending organisational boundaries; identifying specific, not general, goals; and recognising that different partners should take the lead on different issues.We still have issues to resolve but while our approach is neither glamorous nor, as I am sure you will agree, an example of rocket science, it has allowed us to maximise our impact by targeting investment on areas as diverse as community safety, the participation of young people and community land ownership. We have made significant achievements on a range of other things that we have managed to work on together.I will deal briefly with education and lifelong learning. We are conscious of the part that the Government wants councils to play in promoting social inclusion for our young people. That is the key theme of the social inclusion programme that is being developed by the well-being alliance. The programme is being piloted in seven areas in the Highlands, ranging from urban estates—areas in which similar programmes can be found elsewhere—to the remote rural areas of Ardnamurchan and north-west Sutherland, which have been designated by the Government as initiative at the edge areas. The programme focuses on issues such as alternatives to exclusion, new community schools and the needs of young adults and young parents.Learning for children and adults will change fundamentally in the next century as communications technology becomes more widespread. We are working towards the Highland grid for learning and there are major issues about investment in technology. Together with the University of the Highlands and Islands, we are working towards the creation of local learning centres in each of our 28 secondary schools. That entails a combination of investment in technology and infrastructure and access to learning opportunities.I know that I will tempt at least one member of the committee to question me further by mentioning the role of community education in supporting community learning plans. It is fundamental. We have a significant amount of work to do in that area.David Green made three important points about our enterprise activities. The Highlands are different from the rest of the country. John Farquhar Munro, Mr Ewing and Mr Lyon will be aware of the importance of our focus on primary rural industries such as fish farming, agriculture and forestry in remote areas. We also believe in the importance of investment in public sector jobs to maintain the fragile economies of remote communities. As David Green said, we provide an important part of the market for subcontractors and suppliers whose businesses would otherwise not survive. For example, one third of all employment in Sutherland is direct council employment. We subcontract about a third of our building maintenance expenditure to local contractors. It is important to create a market for the private sector in remote areas.We work on the principle of complementarity with Highlands and Islands Enterprise and the local enterprise companies. We operate in niches where we can play to our strengths. I am sure that the director of planning will elaborate later on the role of Highland Prospect Ltd and of Highland Opportunity Ltd as the enterprise trust.Our economic development effort is based on partnership. It could be argued that it would be better to vest responsibility for that in one agency. However, that does not reflect the way that people in businesses approach things or the extent to which the issues that are raised by enterprise and liflelong learning have many facets. We believe that access to complementary and co-ordinated services should be available through many doors."
    },
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  },
  {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor David Green (Convener, Highland Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
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      "EditedText": "I am David Green, the convener of the Highland Council, and, as the lowest-paid person at this top table, have been asked to lead this presentation. With me are Mr Arthur McCourt, who is chief executive, Mr John Rennilson, who is director of planning and development, and Mr Bruce Robertson, who is director of education.First, I want to reiterate in public my thanks to the convener and the committee, and to Scottish Parliament officials, for their enterprising decision to be the first committee to do business outside Holyrood, and for choosing to come to the Highlands. Judging by the public interest and, indeed, the oversubscription, I think that the people of the Highlands support that decision. Maybe you will have to consider Eden Court theatre as the venue next time round.Secondly, I will take account of your request to keep the presentation brief. I am no stranger to that instruction. Since I was elected convener a few months ago, people keep asking me to be brief when I speak.I will begin by setting out an historical perspective for the Highlands, which is an area that is now keen to learn from its history rather than continually to be depressed by it. The Government was debating the Highland problem more than 30 years ago. With the population decreasing, culture declining, little opportunity and confidence, the only future was to get the bus out—on the A9, if it had been there.Then successive Governments, and—I would contend—the Highlands and Islands Development Board, regional and district councils and their successors, played their part in creating a different situation. We now have population growth; cultural renaissance; respect for a quality environment; high educational standards; low crime rates; growing communities and confidence; a new university on the doorstep; and space to grow for the people of the Highlands and of Scotland in general. Those are almost all preconditions for the cultivation of enterprise and lifelong learning. The Highland challenge is to develop, but to retain the exclusivity of the wonderful environment.As Jim Hunter said a few minutes ago, the turnaround has been relatively recent. In development terms, the Highlands are at an embryonic stage. I have just returned from Scotland House in Brussels, where there was a successful Highlands and Islands partnership bid involving all the conveners in the Highlands and Islands and the enterprise company network for extra European assistance. That is important because the infrastructure of our growing, but fragile, economy still needs help. Whether we are talking about the holes in the roads or the black holes in our information and communications technology, the needs are evident.I will deal with the role of the Highland Council in that context. We have the largest local authority area in Europe. We have 80 elected members—some might say that means that there are 79 in opposition to me, as it is a non-aligned council—who are the eyes and ears of our far-flung communities. We are the largest employer in the Highlands—the council is the largest employer in my ward of Lochbroom, as there is a school in Ullapool. We invest more than £330 million in a multiplicity of front-line services: road, ferries, schools, communications, housing, village halls, housing, sports centres, and whatever.I mention the impact of wages and contracts on the handout. In taking difficult budget decisions in recent years, it would have been easy to save £60,000 by closing a remote roads depot, but that might represent two jobs in an area in which there might only be 15 or 16 jobs—the Highland Council is a significant employer. Also, the private sector suffered as a result of the capital downturn—what we called a ski slope—that was imposed by a nameless Scottish Office minister a few years ago: further out from Inverness, the small subcontractors and businesses depend, almost disproportionately, on the money that the public sector spends. Public sector prosperity in the Highlands is inextricably linked with prosperity and enterprise.We embrace the Government's agenda on social inclusion. There are seven social inclusion schemes. I think that youth has been missed out in our deliberations in the past—young people are major users of our services. I was privileged to chair two Highland youth parliaments, in which there was an enthusiasm and standard of debate that left me speechless.On sustainable development, it is important that the council has a strategic planning overview and that it adds value through partnership. No matter how much European assistance we receive, there will still be problems of scale and distance in the Highlands. No matter how many European programmes there are, I will still be at the end of a 15-mile single-track road in remote Wester Ross. It is important that the council underpins the infrastructure of the area. Decision making is decentralised: operational decisions for Caithness are taken in Caithness, although the strategic overview is taking place in Inverness. Highland Council is still one body and we occasionally have to remind some elected members of that fact.To assist the maximisation of collective resources, we have the Highland well-being alliance, an organisation that comprises Scottish Natural Heritage, the police, HIE, Scottish Homes and others. We are trying to move towards one budget for things such as social inclusion. The underlying principle of crofting can be brought into local government: everyone must work together. Partnership is essential in remote areas.Education is a good example of what is being done to sustain communities. In Kinlochbervie, the council, with partners, invested money in the school and the harbour. That has meant that jobs have been retained and people no longer have to move away because of a lack of educational facilities. Families are being kept in the community. Similar work has been done in Ullapool, where £5 million—partly European money—has been spent on a new community high school that opens next week. The new opportunities for learning will bring a buzz back into the west coast. The forthcoming private finance initiative scheme in Ardnamurchan is worth mentioning in this context. There is no better way to regenerate the Ardnamurchan peninsula than to build a school there.It is important for us to get the quality services right. When we have done that, we can adopt a leadership role and look after the Highlands by promoting or protecting the area. There has been a huge debate in the Highlands in the last few years about looking ahead. We have tried to agree on a shared vision, which is not always easy. However, the further ahead one looks, the easier it is to find agreement. We are considering hosting a summit for the primary producers in the Highlands, not to let them whinge, but to find out where groups such as the forestry industry and the agriculture industry want to be in five years' time. We hope that the Rural Affairs Committee will come up to the Highlands for that."
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  },
  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
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      "EditedText": "No. We usually put in a top-up, where the commercial rate of repayment is such that it would stretch the company too far, particularly in the early years. We operate on the basis that the repayments are deferred for the first year, to help the company to get started."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
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      "EditedText": "Is the source of that money the council's budget? You have not created the companies so that you can bring in private finance?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
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      "EditedText": "That scheme will access private finance, then, separately from the council budget? That is the point that I am trying to get at. You do not do that at the moment?"
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  {
    "ID": "C155658",
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      "ID": 822
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
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      "EditedText": "That is one step further than we go at the moment."
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  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155659",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is quite innovative. The council's statement on strategic goals and values says that you will\"argue for local democratic accountability of other public sector agencies\".I presume that it is your view that they are not democratically accountable at the moment and that there is insufficient public scrutiny of those bodies?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
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      "EditedText": "We see the Scottish Parliament as having a scrutiny role in relation to the public enterprise companies. I have just witnessed something of that. If you are asking for our political stance, it is as you state."
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  {
    "ID": "C155662",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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      "EditedText": "I signed up to writing some of those goals and values and that is exactly what my view is. More transparency and accountability is required of those bodies, just as we are transparent and accountable."
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  {
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      "EditedText": "It is important to have board members who are based within the community and who represent a variety of sectors. The board in turn is accountable to the public, which it also represents. We have a number of councillors who are board members of LECs. That depth and breadth of experience on LEC boards is important."
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 155665,
      "EditedText": "Are there enough councillors on LEC boards, or should there be more?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Bruce Robertson (Director of Education, Highland Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 155674,
      "EditedText": "The total capital spend that we require on things like maintenance—the known capital projects that we have already costed and capital projects that are waiting to come on board—comes to £78 million. As we speak, a group of councillors and officers is looking at property across the Highlands. Our annual capital budget for education is £8.4 million and at the moment we are spending under £2 million on maintenance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Green: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 155675,
      "EditedText": "That is significantly more than it was previously, when we were spending one year's allocation on, for instance, building Gairloch high school. As a council we have directed resources towards educational spend because of the importance of the primary and secondary schools in the area.The 50 per cent council tax discount available on second homes in the Highlands is against council policy and is inherited. My view is that it is an unfair taxation rule that allows my neighbour, who is a professor, to get 50 per cent discount on his council tax while I cannot. He has told me that he is prepared to pay the extra. It is a disincentive to making houses available on the local market because it is easier to hold them as holiday homes. Against that, there are people who live in the Highlands and who own holiday homes in the Highlands. That is a slightly different issue. It is depressing not to see many lights on in the winter time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 155677,
      "EditedText": "Highland Opportunity Ltd comprises the chairman of the finance committee of the council and the area development chairmen of each of the eight area committees of the council. Highland Prospect has a smaller board of six, which comprises members who have responsibility, either at council headquarters or in the areas, for economic development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCourt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 155681,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that Miss Goldie is entirely correct. Mr Rennilson made two significant points. We are trying to make the council's property and land assets work. We are trying to generate resources that we can redistribute to less profitable areas. The scale of the operation is likely to be relatively modest and targeted to where there are commercial opportunities to make our land and property assets work. Perhaps Miss Goldie misunderstands the need to set up a network. There will be a targeted set of joint-venture schemes, across the Highlands, with the private sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCourt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 155683,
      "EditedText": "What happens will depend on the market—it is as straightforward as that. If there is not thought to be a commercial opportunity in relation to, say, a set of buildings or a portfolio of land, there will not be a scheme or joint venture. The scale will depend on the market. As you know, in the Highlands the potential market exists almost entirely in the Moray firth and Fort William areas—it is fairly tightly circumscribed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 155684,
      "EditedText": "I am struggling to understand. You are talking about using council assets, so can you give an example of the kind of company that you have lent money to via the two companies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4640186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C155688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 155688,
      "EditedText": "I would like to put on record my thanks to Highland Council for the first-class support and advice that it has given me as a new member of Parliament with regard to this area.I want to pursue the questions asked by Mr Swinney and Miss Goldie. Is there anything that you do in the area of economic development that Highlands and Islands Enterprise could not do by enhancing partnerships and so on? On the strategic goals and values, is it the council's role to seek more local, egalitarian patterns of ownership, given that a community buy-out section is already well advanced within HIE? Could that be another duplication of service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 155690,
      "EditedText": "In an absolute sense, the answer to Mary Scanlon's question is that things can be done by others. With our hands-on local experience we can deliver certain things. We are a European information centre, one of only two in Scotland and one of 250 throughout the European Union. As we have a local dimension, we add value, although I am not taking anything away from the work that the LECs and HIE do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 155691,
      "EditedText": "Your statement of strategic goals and values says that you will take a leading role in the creation of the University of the Highlands and Islands to complement existing further education provision in the Highlands and Islands. You have talked a lot about your learning communities and you have mentioned opening 20 local learning centres and removing the barriers to learning. The LECs would see themselves as the first port of call for anybody interested in education and training. Is that how you see it? What do you see as the major barriers to education in the Highlands and Islands? Is the complexity of providers and of providers of advice one of them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 155692,
      "EditedText": "We are developing a healthy partnership with the UHI network. That will be fundamental to the development of skills, training and education across this huge land mass. We have the opportunity to reverse some of the problems that there have been in education, training and development over the past couple of centuries. We aim to develop 28 local learning networks. We have started to develop those networks around our secondary schools, each of which has a distance learning unit. There are more pupils in the Highland Council area who obtain qualifications through that method than there are anywhere else in Scotland. That is because of the large number of small secondary schools. We are building on our existing infrastructure. Someone who is looking for advice or who wants to start a new course or obtain qualifications could go to a number of different individuals or organisations. Our community education service, which the chief executive mentioned, will be fundamental to expanding opportunity for all and to developing lifelong learning. That does not mean that the community education service will deliver that—we could not possibly deliver it, which is why partnerships are vital. We have developed partnerships with HIE, LECs and colleges, which will provide a much-enhanced service to the people of the Highlands.On barriers, we mentioned rural factors in our introductory presentation. Although there are FE colleges in Thurso, Inverness and Lochaber—as well as Sabhal Mòr Ostaig on Skye—access to FE provision is not easy for the vast majority of people in the Highlands. Through the 28 local learning networks we must provide a one-stop opportunity to access school provision, FE provision and HE provision. That is our aim and it is beginning to happen. Information and communications technology is fundamental to that aim. We already have a sophisticated network on the ground, largely developed through European funding in partnership with the UHI network.We would like to pass on two of our concerns to members. One is to do with the Highland grid. Connectivity is fundamental to our ability to access all courses equitably, but British Telecom is considering introducing ISDN lines only in areas that are within 4 km of exchanges, although many parts of the Highland area lie beyond that limit.Our other concern is the digital upgrading of information technology. I understand that BT will consider digital upgrading only where there are centres of population of more than 25,000 in exchange areas. That could be a huge barrier to development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 155693,
      "EditedText": "Another of your statements of strategic goals and values is to\"contribute and deploy to advantage the distinct, cultural, economic and social perspectives of the Highlands in a European context.\"Councillor Green, you mentioned your presence at the opening of Scotland House. Do you see that development as an opportunity to employ to better advantage the distinct cultural, economic and social perspectives of the Highlands? In his presentation, Mr McCourt briefly mentioned the European economic partnership. Given the importance of European funding to the economic regeneration of the Highlands, are you satisfied that the partnership is serving the regional interest well in terms of targeting those funds to address the social inclusion agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 155699,
      "EditedText": "The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities believes that we are being a little premature in examining the way in which economic development support is delivered, because it feels that we have not given community planning sufficient time to see how it will affect joined-up working. Helpfully, you have given us a copy of the consultation document on your community plan. If the plan is implemented, what sort of changes do you envisage? How do you think the way in which economic development support is delivered will change?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3535,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 155702,
      "EditedText": "Mr McCourt, a lot of thought has obviously been given to the expansion of Highland Prospect Ltd into more commercial areas. What free assets does the Highland Council have in land and buildings? What targets will be set for return on capital for Highland Prospects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rennilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 155703,
      "EditedText": "In the first tranche, we are bringing together nine separate sets of buildings or under-used land and the joint venture company will seek interest and private capital. We will be seeking a commercial return and are in discussions as to how that can be secured while keeping taxation liability to a minimum. We are interested in creating jobs—we want to use the assets to create new enterprise in the Highlands—but we also want to be able to recycle the money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C155711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 155711,
      "EditedText": "The debate has moved on now, but I wanted to support the council in its strategic aim of democratic accountability, which is apt if one considers what happened recently with the appointments to the North of Scotland Water Authority and the Scottish Environment Protection Agency. Although Highland is one of the biggest geographic areas within SEPA's responsibility, there are very few, if any, elected members from the Highlands. We must be conscious of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 155718,
      "EditedText": "I have two questions, but I will make them short. First, following on from what Mr McCourt said, there has been a huge increase in demand for information and communications training for workers in all sectors. Who do you expect will provide most of that training? The public sector or private sector training providers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 155725,
      "EditedText": "That is the advice that I have been given by our director of information services. Digital upgrading is a big issue for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ContributionID": 155731,
      "EditedText": "I welcome members of the committee, other members of the Parliament and members of the public to the afternoon session of our discussions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 570.0,
      "ContributionID": 155732,
      "EditedText": "The first part of the session will be a discussion with the organisations responsible for the promotion and development of the Gaelic language. For the purposes of this part of the meeting, the presentations will be made in Gaelic. Simultaneous interpreting equipment is available for members. I will give an outline of the instructions that I have been given. It is embarrassing for me to give technical advice to anyone, bearing it in mind that I have just done a radio interview during which I was asked for the e-mail address so that people could send information to this inquiry, but I was unable to provide said information. On that note of technical incompetence, let us proceed.Members should plug the headphones into the bottom of the receiver unit, press start and check that channel 1 is selected. There is a volume control on the left side of the unit. The simultaneous interpretation will not be broadcast over the public address system, as that would disturb the speakers. A limited number of headsets is available for members of the public, which the security staff will make available on request. I welcome Allan Campbell, chief executive of Comunn na Gàidhlig, and Lachlan Dick and Calum Robertson from Sabhal Mòr Ostaig. We will hear from Allan Campbell first, and then from the gentlemen from Sabhal Mòr Ostaig. I will open the meeting to questions once we have heard both presentations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 155737,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee for this opportunity to speak. First, I will tell a little about the history of the college. Sabhal Mòr Ostaig, a partner institution with the University of the Highlands and Islands, is situated in Sleat on the Isle of Skye. The college was set up in 1973 to help remedy the lack of education through the medium of Gaelic. Since 1983, it has offered the first nationally validated further education courses through the medium of Gaelic. Since 1998, Sabhal Mòr Ostaig, in conjunction with two partner colleges, has offered Gaelic-medium degree courses in Gaelic language and culture and Gaelic with north Atlantic studies. Since its inception, SMO has undertaken two major extensions to its facilities. The first, in 1993, provided additional teaching accommodation and—for the first time—residential accommodation. In session 1998-99, the college opened the outstanding facilities at Arainn Chaluim Chille, adjacent to the earlier complex. The new facilities allowed the college to extend its range of activities. The college curriculum, delivered through the medium of Gaelic, is founded on the belief that a sound economy must be based on a vibrant and confident culture. At certain stages, students can leave the two degrees mentioned—which entail an immersion approach to language learning in the first year—with various qualifications. In addition to the degrees, the college provides a number of other courses, including a post-qualification TV course, which is delivered in collaboration with the industry. The college operates a wide range of short courses during vacations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Campbell (Chief Executive, Comunn na Gàidhlig): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 155733,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Before I start, I should say that my colleague, Donald Martin, is also with me, sitting next to the overhead projector. Donald and I are members of the trust of Sabhal Mòr Ostaig. I am proud to say that I have been involved for about 20 years, and Donald for about 10 years. That is an important point. Tapadh leibh, fhir-cathraich. Dh'iarrainn an toiseach fàilte a chur air a' Chomataidh seo chun na Gàidhealtachd agus tha mi airson taing a thoirt dhuibh airson an fhianais seo a chluinntinn ann an Gàidhlig, a' daingneachadh an àite a tha sibh deònach a thoirt dhi ann an obair Pàrlamaid na h-Albann agus ann an riaghladh na dùthcha cuideachd.An dèidh Aithisg bho Bhòrd Leasachaidh na Gàidhealtachd, chaidh Comunn na Gàidhlig—CNAG—a stèidheachadh ann an 1984 gus an t-slighe air adhart airson ath-bheothachadh agus leasachadh na Gàidhlig agus a' chultair a cho-òrdanachadh. Tha CNAG air am maoineachadh leis an Riaghaltas 's tha e an urra riutha a' Ghàidhlig 's a chultar a leasachadh gu nàiseanta. Tha CNAG cuideachd air a bhith na buidheann comhairleachaidh air cùisean Gàidhlig do Rùnaire na h-Alba agus Oifis na h-Alba.'S e buidheann Earrannta a th' ann an Comunn na Gàidhlig le barrantas agus inbhe carthannais. Tha ùghdarrasan ionadail, buidhnean poblach, na prìomh bhuidhnean Gàidhlig uile agus a' choimhearsnachd Ghàidhlig san fharsaingeachd air an riochdachadh air a' Bhòrd Stiùiridh aig CNAG. Tha polasaidhean na buidhne air an deasbad aig a' Chòmhdhail Nàiseanta Bhliadhnail agus air an cur an gnìomh leis an Stiùiriche agus an luchd-obrach. Tha structar na buidhne, aig an ìre seo, air a stèidheachadh air ceithir prìomh chinn: Foillseachadh agus Inbhe Thèarainte; Foghlam; Oigridh agus Leasachadh Coimhearsnachd.Am measg nam prìomh raointean obrach, thar na còig bliadhna deug bho chaidh Comunn na Gàidhlig a stèidheachadh, tha: An Iomairt airson Inbhe ThèaraintePlanaichean Leasachaidh airson GàidhligIomairt airson Craoladh GàidhligComann nam Pàrant (Nàiseanta)Pròiseact nan EalanIomairtean OigridhCùrsaichean Bogaidh GàidhligBuaidh Gàidhlig air an Eaconamaidh (Aithisg Sproull/Ashcroft)Iomairt Turasachd Cultarach FàilteIomairtean Foghlaim GàidhligSgeamaichean Gàidhlig sa Choimhearsnachd.Chithear amasan Chomunn na Gàidhlig anns na prìomh phàipearan poileasaidh, a tha ag innse gu mionaideach mu mholaidhean agus targaidean airson leasachadh a' chànain agus a' chultair air feadh Alba.Chaidh an Dreach Iùl airson Achd Gàidhlig a thoirt do Riaghaltas na h-Alba san Lùnasdal 1999 agus thàthar air Foghlam; Buidhnean Poblach, a' gabhail a-steach na Pàrlamaid fhèin; na Cùirtean; agus Craoladh a chomharrachdh mar na ceithir prìomh raointean a bu chòir a chòmhdach ann an lagh gus dìon brìghmhor no inbhe thèarainte a thoirt don Ghàidhlig, air a stèidheachadh air prionnsabal co-ionnanachd a bhith ann do Ghàidhlig 's do Bheurla, an Alba, coltach ris an aithne a chaidh a thoirt dhan Chuimris ann an Achd na Cuimris bho chionn sia bliadhna air ais.A thaobh prìomh ùidh na Comataidh seo, tha an Dreach Iùl, a thaobh Foghlaim, a' moladh gur e am prionnsabal a bu chòir Achd Ghàidhlig a stiùireadh, gum faigh Foghlam tro Mheadhan na Ghàidhlig an aon inbhe ri Foghlam tro Mheadhan na Beurla a thaobh a bhith fosgailte do na h-uile, le còirichean, airgead agus stòras eile.Bu chòir cuideachd leasachadh a dhèanamh air teagasg eachdraidh na Gàidhlig as na sgoiltean—maoineachadh ceart a dhèanamh air trusadh agus trèanadh luchd-teagaisg, agus stòras ceart cuideachd a chur ma choinneamh Sabhal Mòr Ostaig agus a leithid.Tha Stòrlann Nàiseanta na Gàidhlig na chiad cheum chudromach air aithneachadh a ghainnid a tha ann de stuthan ionnsachaidh agus teagaisg na Gàidhlig, ach feumar structaran leasachaidh aig ìrean nàiseanta agus ionadail a mhaoineachadh gu cothromach. Tha craoladh a sìor fhàs cudromach ann an saoghal foghlaim leantalach cuideachd agus tha an Dreach Iùl againn a' daingneachadh gu bheil inbhe laghail bunaiteach ma tha seirbheis choilionta Craolaidh Gàidhlig gu bhith air a thoirt gu buil. Tha na molaidhean air Poileasaidh Nàiseanta airson Foghlaim Gàidhlig (Innleachd Airson Adhartais—a chuireadh chun Riaghaltais anns a' Chèitean bho chionn dà bhliadhna air ais) ag iarraidh gun tèid innleachd a stèidheachadh cho luath is a ghabhas airson leasachadh na Gàidhlig agus Foghlam tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig a cho-òrdanachadh aig ìre nàiseanta.Chaidh Gàidhlig plc fhoillseachadh na bu tràithe air a' bhliadhna, an dèidh beachdan a shireadh bho na prìomh bhuidhnean Gàidhlig.(S e na trì prìomh amasan a tha an lùib a' phlana sin:Aireamh luchd-labhairt na Gàidhlig a mheudachadhCoimhearsnachdan Gàidhlig a neartachadhEaconomaidh na Gàidhlig a leasachadhDèiligidh mi ri na trì amasan fa leth.An toiseach, a' chiad amas—Meudachadh air luchd-labhairt na Gàidhlig:Tha àireamhan luchd-labhairt fhathast a' dol sìos, a dh'aindheoin an leudachaidh a th' air tachairt, leis gu bheil a leithid de sheann daoine againn tha sinn gan call nas luaithe na tha òigridh agus luchd-ionnsachaidh a' tighinn nan aite.(S e a' phrìomh chnap-starra a th' againn leis a' cheann-uidhe seo—Cion Poileasaidh Nàiseanta Foghlaim Gàidhlig. Ged a tha sinn air adhartas mor a dhèanamh thairis air na ceithir bliadhna deug a dh'fhalbh, tha suidheachadh a' chànain as a' choimhearsnachd air fàs cho lag agus nach eil i air chomas tilleadh gun taic shònraichte o shaoghal foghlaim.(S e fuasgladh na ceist sin Achd Ghàidhlig le Còirichean Foghlaim.Nuair a thig Poileasaidh Nàiseanta Foghlaim Gàidhlig—an dàrna cuid mar phàirt de dh'Achd Foghlaim, neo mar phàirt de dh'Achd Ghàidhlig—feumaidh innleachdan trèanaidh airson luchd-teagaisg, aig gach ìre, tighinn na cois agus maoineachadh a leigeas leis na leasachaidhean sin a dhol air adhart. As aonais sin, chan eil dòchas againn air soirbheachadh le àireamhan luchd-labhairt Gàidhlig a thilleadh.(S e an dàrna ceann-uidhe—Neartachadh Coimhearsnachdan Gaidhlig:Ma tha a' Ghàidhlig gu bhith buan, feumar na coimhearsnachdan dùthchail aice ath-bheothachadh a-rithist ach am bi daoine misneachail agus le fèin-spèis agus moit nan dualchas.(S e an cnap-starra a th' againn an seo—Cion Misneachd agus Ghoireasan.Ri linn (s nach deach a teagasg dhaibh agus, mar sin, nach robh luach cosnaidh riamh sa Ghàidhlig dhan mhòr chuid de na Gàidheil fhèin, chan eil misneachd aca innte no annta fhèin leatha—agus chan eil dòighean ceart ann fhathast gus seo a leasachadh.(S e fuasgladh sin—Innleachd Nàiseanta dhan Ghàidhlig.Mar phàirt de na dh'fheumas leantainn air Achd Ghàidhlig feumaidh innleachdan a bhith againn airson coinneachadh ris gach èiginn leasachaidh a th' ann agus feumaidh ionmhas a bhith ma choinneamh na h-obrach sin ma tha i dol a shoirbheachadh.(S e an treas ceann-uidhe—Leasachadh Eaconomaigeach dhan Ghàidhlig.Ma tha Gàidhlig gu bhith glèidheadh buan an dèidh ath-leasachaidh, feumaidh barrachd is barrachd chothroman a bhith ann a cur an sàs ann an saoghal gnìomhachais is malairt gus am bi buannachd fhollaiseach eaconomaigeach na cois.(S e an cnap-starra a th' ann an-dràsda—Cion Ionmhais Leasachaidh. Chan eil mothachadh gu leòr ann fhathast air na cothroman a dh'fhaodadh tighinn an cois leasachadh eaconomaigeach Gàidhlig agus ri linn sin chan eil ionmhas gu leòr neo taic gu leòr ga chur ris an iomairt seo.(S e fuasgladh air an sin—Taic Chothromach dhan Ghàidhlig.Tha feum air roinn nas cothromaiche de dh'ionmhas a thoirt dhan Ghàidhlig san fharsaingeachd ma tha na h-iomairtean leasachaidh èiginneach a thàthar a-niste a' comharrachadh ri bhith air an coinneachadh, agus cuideachd gus togail air na rinneadh dhan chànan gu ruige seo agus gus an tuilleadh adhartas a choilionadh.Tha a' Ghàidhlig sònraichte ann an dualchas bheairteach nàiseanta na h-Alba.Tha co-obrachadh deatamach a thaobh innleachd leasachaidh.Tha maoineachadh foghlaim bunaiteach do dh'Iomairt agus do dh'Oideachadh Beatha Gàidhlig.Tha co-obrachadh le buidhnean mar Iomairt na Gàidhealtachd, na buidhnean Iomairt, Sabhal Mòr Ostaig fhèin, Oilthigh na Gàidhealtachd, agus Comhairlean, cuide ris an taic a fhuair sinn bhon Riaghaltas fhèin air a dhearbhadh dhuinne gum bheil co-roinn agus co-obrachadh bunaiteach ann an innleachdan leasachaidh na Gàidhlig, agus ma tha i gu bhith buan fad linn eile.Mar a chithear agus mar a chluinnear as na bhios aig riochdairean an as t-Sabhail Mhòir ri aithris ribh a-niste, tha maoineachadh foghlaim aig cridhe innleachdan agus cothroman leasachaidh cànain is eaconomaigh, agus cuideachd aig cridhe innleachd leasachaidh cànain agus cultar na Gàidhlig.Mòran taing airson eisdeachd."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 155739,
      "EditedText": "In addition to its academic activities, the college undertakes a range of other activities designed to meet the needs of the Gaelic community: Leirsinn, the college's research arm; Cànan, the college's publishing and marketing company; the Columba initiative, a Scottish Executive initiative to link Scotland, Northern Ireland and Eire; and information technology activity, Developing Digital Democracy, through Europe-funded projects such as Titan. In addition, the college's website has 100,000 hits a week. The college plays a major role in the economy of the community. Fifty-five full-time jobs are sustained all year. Including part-timers and short course tutors, 180 people are on the payroll. Annual wages of £1.49 million circulate in the locality. Every year, the college rents 24,720 bed nights in the local community, while staff and students use local services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 155735,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Calum Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ContributionID": 155742,
      "EditedText": "Tha mi 'n dòchas gun tug siud dealbh air na tha Sabhal Mòr Ostaig ris is tha a' buntainn ri dleasdanas na Comataidh agaibh. O chionn greis a nis, tha an Riaghaltas is na Comhairlean Ionadail air a bhith cur taic ri Gàidhlig. Ach tha Urrasairean is luchd-rianachd na Colaisde gu làidir den bheachd, le meud na h-ùidhe ann an Gàidhlig is le leudachadh air teagasg tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig, gu bheil cothroman mòra ann fhathast. Agus gus sin a thoirt gu buil tha feum air aithne is leasachadh air na cnapan-starra tha mar coinneimh mar bhuidhnean Gàidhlig, agus a bharrachd, air an droch bhuaidh a tha aig cuid de structaran.Tha Sabhal Mòr Ostaig is buidhnean Gàidhlig eile ag obair ann an suidheachadh: —le cion-taic ann a bhith a' cur air adhart leasaichidhean ùra—le cosgais a bharrachd thaobh bhith air an iomall—le àireamhan beaga is barrachd cosgais gach ceann—le coimhearsnachd a tha gu math sgapteTha iad sin is nithean eile a' cur ri cosgaisean.  A bharrachd, a rèir coltais, thàthar a' gluasad gu nàiseanta gu buidhnean aona-ghnìomhach is le sùil nas cumhainge. Ach an aghaidh sin feumaidh na mion-chultaran, le meud na h-obrach, a bhith adhartach is co-thaiceal. Tha feum air na buidhnean aona-ghnìomhach bhith cheart cho adhartach.Is mu dheireadh, tha aig Sabhal Mòr, mar gach buidheann eileanach bhith beò ann an siostam tha gu beagnaich air a dhealbh a rèir feumalachdan a' bhaile mhòir. Ma tha na h-eileanan is dùthchanan iomallach eile gu bhith slàn fallain, tha feum air sin atharrachadh. Tha e na adhbhar-misneachd gum bi a' Pharlamaid ùr a' toirt sùil air a' bhuaidh a bhios aig gach achd air na h-eileanan is bidh ar dùil ri adhartas as leth sin.Mòran taing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 594.0,
      "ContributionID": 155743,
      "EditedText": "I hope that the foregoing has given an indication of Sabhal Mòr Ostaig's contribution to the committee's spheres of interest. Central and local government has done much recently to support Gaelic. However, the college's trustees and management believe that with the increasing interest in Gaelic language and culture, and the growing role of Gaelic-medium education, significant further progress can be made. That progress will require recognition of and remedies for the difficulties faced by organisations operating in and through Gaelic and the unintended adverse influences of some current structures.I will give some examples of those difficulties. Sabhal Mòr Ostaig and other Gaelic organisations operate in a field where new developments cannot draw on any significant existing support, for example, Gaelic higher education texts or Gaelic databases. That imposes additional costs. The organisations face the higher cost of rural and island locations and serve a dispersed Gaelic community; small numbers, with consequent higher per capita costs, are the norm. In addition, there has been a tendency towards single-purpose agencies and a narrowing of focus. Given the scale of operation, minority cultures are required to adopt innovative, multi-faceted and co-operative solutions. Single-purpose agencies need to adopt equally innovative approaches to such situations.Finally, Sabhal Mòr Ostaig—like all rural or island-based organisations—is required to operate in a system that is designed primarily to cope with urban requirements. For remote and island communities to prosper, such handicaps have to be removed. We note with interest that the processes of the Scottish Parliament include the assessment of any likely effects on island communities, and we hope for positive outcomes as a result."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 596.0,
      "ContributionID": 155744,
      "EditedText": "In a moment I will open up the discussion for questions, but I want to start with some of the economic links that have been mentioned. The Sabhal Mòr Ostaig presentation gave a clear assessment of the college's direct economic impact on the local economy—a wider economy, I suspect, than simply that of Skye. Mr Dick, you talked about the concept of incubation units and the ability to develop local business activity. Are there distinctive features about the types of business activity that you believe can be created as a spin-off of the Gaelic language? Or, as Calum Robertson said, do we simply need to ensure that the agencies' general economic development policies create no more inherent barriers to Gaelic developments than would be the case in any urban or mainstream community in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 604.0,
      "ContributionID": 155748,
      "EditedText": "Cha tàinig e gu ìre fhathast—tha sinn ga fhaicinn mar amas a tha uamhasach cudromach. 'S e an rud a tha mi smaoineachadh a dh'fheumta a thuigsinn a tha fìor a thaobh na Gàidhlig—leth-cheud bliadhna air ais bha mòran a bharrachd a' bruidhinn na Gàidhlig na tha ga bruidhinn an-diugh agus 's e rud a thachair nach robh cothroman cosnaidh dhaibh an lùib a' chànain, rud air an tug mi tarraing na bu tràithe, agus mar sin tha sinne niste den bheachd ann a bhith ag ath-leasachadh a' chànain gu feum sinn na cothroman cosnaidh a tha seo a chruthachadh dhan a' chànan, an lùib a' chanain, agus mar sin gum bi dòigh ann air am bi i buan agus 's e fear dhe na h-eisimpleirean air a bheil sinne ag amas an-dràsda 's e obair turasachd agus faodaidh Dòmhnall Màrtainn facal a ràdh air an sin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3536,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 617.0,
      "ContributionID": 155754,
      "EditedText": "I would like to explore in more depth how we might increase the number of Gaelic speakers. I want to make a comparison with Europe, where I have spent much time over the past three years. It was there that I last used simultaneous interpretation services—I must say that the interpretation here is far better than it ever was around the table in Brussels. Around that table were representatives of 14 other countries. Most of them, with the exception of the Irish and ourselves, had a minimum of two languages, and possibly three—their native language and either French, German or English. Is there a cultural problem in trying to raise the number of Gaelic speakers? Is the demand there? Are young people interested in taking up the language? Do we in Scotland value highly enough being able to speak our own language, or has that gone by the wayside because the world speaks English and we expect that that is how it should always be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 625.0,
      "ContributionID": 155758,
      "EditedText": "In comparison with other European countries, we in this country are very backward when it comes to having a second or third language. I regret that I do not have an answer to that problem—perhaps it is because English is so strong.The most important thing that has happened to increase the number of Gaelic speakers is that we now offer Gaelic-medium education in primary schools. I hope that that will gradually be extended to secondary schools as well.Many adult learners do not reach a high standard of spoken Gaelic. We often hear of them going to classes, but they do not seem to improve very fast, and are at the same level year after year. There are not enough Gaelic classes to cater for the different levels of learning. That is one of the things that Sabhal Mòr Ostaig would like to get involved in, to have progressive courses that would bring learners on from year to year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 627.0,
      "ContributionID": 155759,
      "EditedText": "We should consider the situation in the north of Scotland and compare it with the situation in Wales, where the Welsh language is spoken extensively throughout the north of Wales. It is the first language used in most news broadcasting on television and it is the natural first language of the inhabitants. Why has Wales managed to preserve the culture of speaking its native language while Gaelic has fallen by the wayside in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 629.0,
      "ContributionID": 155760,
      "EditedText": "Chan eil fhios 'am a bheil buaidh aige gur e coimhearsnachd gu math sgapte a tha niste ann a thaobh na Gàidhlig air sgàth 's gur e coimhearsnachdan eileanach a bh' ann agus nach robh na ceanglaichean ann a neartaicheadh Gàidhlig càch a chèile anns an dòigh 's dòcha a gheibh duine sa Chumrigh, agus gu ìre, chì duine an aon seòrsa suidheachadh ann an Eirinn cuideachd. 'S dòcha cuideachd air mar do thòischear air brosnachadh na cànain gu h-oifigeil gu bheil àireamh sluagh na Gàidhlig air crìonadh fada a bharrachd 's a bha sluagh na Cuimrigh 's tha sin ga dhèanamh nas duilghe a bhith a' togail na cùise a-rithist. Mur eil dad aig Ailean a chuireadh e ris."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 641.0,
      "ContributionID": 155766,
      "EditedText": "I cannot speak with any specialist authority about the Welsh Language Act 1993, but I think that the situation of the Welsh language was to some extent similar to Gaelic's present situation. That act had to prove that the language was making great steps forward. Fifteen years ago, we also had to show that we could regenerate the language. At that time, the Government told us that we had to show that, as a community, we wanted Gaelic to survive. We believe that, over the past 15 years, our community has proved that the Gaelic language will survive. Now we want to return to the Government and explain that we have done our part and that it must now support us and give our language secure status. We have done what we can, but the Government must help us out from now on. I hope not only that there will be a Gaelic act in the years to come, but that the Gaelic act will be an essential first step to secure educational rights for Gaelic speakers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 647.0,
      "ContributionID": 155769,
      "EditedText": "Nam faodainns' leantainn air an sin 's a dhol air ais chun a' chiad phuing a thog a bhean-uasail Goldie. Chan eil teagamh sam bith nach eil e nas fhasa cànan ionnsachadh nuair a tha thu òg ach bhithinn an dòchas nach fhalbhadh sibh às an seo a' smaoineachadh nach eil e comasach do dhuin' agaibh a' Ghidhlig no cànan sam bith ionnsachadh aig an aois aig a bheil sibh. Tha tòrr, tòrr de luchd-ionnsachaidh na Gàidhlig a tha cus nas sine na sibh fhèin 's mar sin tha mi 'n dòchas gur e misneachd a tha sin. Tha sinn cuideachd ann an suidheachadh far a bheil mion-chànanan na Roinn Eòrpa a' faighinn barrachd ìomhaigh, agus tha sin uamhasach fhèin cudromach dha na rìoghachadan far a bheil na mion-chànanan agus tha na Riaghaltasan as na rìoghachdan sin uamhasach fhèin taiceil airson gum bi iad a' brosnachadh nam mion-chànanan tha sin. Tha iad ga fhaicinn mar bheairteas chultarach, nàiseanta air an aon dòigh agus a tha Riaghaltas Alba as an leabhran a dh'fhoillsich iad air Cultar Nàiseanta agus bhiodh sinn an dòchas gum biodh an taic sin a' leantann le suidheachadh na Gàidhlig."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 651.0,
      "ContributionID": 155771,
      "EditedText": "We have a new test for Miss Goldie, to which we shall hold her."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C155772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 653.0,
      "ContributionID": 155772,
      "EditedText": "I have received correspondence on this from parents in Ardnamurchan who say that children have to learn all in Gaelic or all in English. Some of them want their children to learn Gaelic as a language in primary school, but have found it difficult to have that happen. Do you agree that, rather than all or nothing, there should be more flexibility in primary schools?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 656.0,
      "ContributionID": 155773,
      "EditedText": "Dh'fhaodainn a ràdh, dìreach an eòlas a bh' agam fhìn air Comhairle nan Eilean, gun robhar a' tabhann an roghainn a bha sin do phàrantan—gu faodadh iad teagasg tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig gu lèir air neo far an robh Gàidhlig mar phàirt de churriculum na sgoile gu nàdarra. Chan eil dà dhòigh air ge-tà a thaobh a bhith eifeachdach gur e teagasg tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig a nì feum.Tha mi a' smaoineachadh gur e an rud a bhiomaid a' moladh mar cheann-uidhe gum bi roghainn, chan ann a-mhàin aig pàrantan a thaobh òigridh ach gum biodh roghainn aig inbhich cuideachd thoireadh tha sinn a' bruidhinn air foghlam fad beatha, sin pàirt dhen amas a th' agaibh pèin mar Chomataidh, sealltainn air na cothroman a tha sin agus air a' cheartas a tha còir a bhith aig daoine 's bhiomaid airson, mar cheann-uidhe, gum bi roghainn farsaing ann.Ach tha e uamhasach cudromach a ràdh cuideachd, dhan chloinn a tha faotainn Foghlam tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig gu bheil a' chlann a tha sin a' tighinn a-mach às an fhoghlam a tha sin fileanta ann am Beurla cuideachd. Tha daoine dualtach a bhith smaoineachadh gum bi a' chlann a tha sin le aon chànan aig deireadh bun-sgoile 's chan eil sin fìor idir. Tha dà chànan aca agus 's e, dà-rìribh, Foghlam tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig foghlam dà-chànanach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 664.0,
      "ContributionID": 155777,
      "EditedText": "First, when CNAG made a submission to the Government on equal status, we asked that a Gaelic development officer be based in the Scottish Parliament and that such an officer should be able to speak on behalf of Gaelic bodies. We in the Gaelic development world are very grateful for the support that we have received from people working with us in London and Edinburgh who have no Gaelic. Members may be a little embarrassed about having to put on earphones today, but we are aware that, despite not speaking Gaelic, they are very supportive of the language."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Dick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 666.0,
      "ContributionID": 155778,
      "EditedText": "A thaobh luchd-teagaisg, chan eil dà dhòigh nach e seo aon dhe na cnapan-starra as motha a tha mu choinneimh teagasg na Gàidhlig anns na sgoiltean. Tha gainnead mhòr ann agus chithear sanasan naidheachd bho àm gu àm bho na Comhairlean 's iad nan èiginn a' sireadh luchd-obrach. Bhiodh Sabhal Mòr gu math deònach a bhith an sàs ann an teagasg tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig do luchd-teagaisg agus tha sinn mar tha a' tabhann chùrsaichean do luchd-teagaisg a tha an ceann an cosnaidh. 'S e dh'iarramaid a-nis gluasad gu prìomh thrèanadh luchd-teagaisg. Tha duilgheadasan an lùib sin oir 's e trèanadh caran cosgail a tha ann agus tha iomadach cuspair co-cheangailte ri bhith trèanadh thidsearan—chan eil e mhàin an crochadh ri Gàidhlig, tha sgilean eile a dhìth. Agus, cuideachd, bhiomaid airson a bhith cinnteach nam b' e agus gun robh Sabhal Mòr agus Oilthigh na Gàidhealtachd an sàs ann an seo gum biodh na tidsearan a bha sin aithnichte air feadh Alba gu lèir agus chan ann a-mhain airson teagasg na Gàidhlig ma 's e 's gur e tidsearan bhun-sgoile a bh' annta. 'S e seo rud air am bi sinn a' toirt sùil o àm gu àm. Tha sinn an-dràsda feitheamh co-dhùnaidhean sgrùdaidh a tha Comhairle Luchd-Teagaisg air neo an GTC a' gabhail os làimh. Aon uair 's gum faic sinn dè na co-dhùnaidhean a bhios an sin, bidh sinn ann an suidheacadh nas fheàrr air sùil a thoirt air dè ghabhas dèanamh chum leasachadh a thoirt air an t-suidheachadh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 682.0,
      "ContributionID": 155786,
      "EditedText": "I think that information technology is a good opportunity for the language. One of the main problems that we have is the fact that the Gaelic-speaking community is scattered. The internet is one way of bringing the community closer together. We hope to develop distance learning using information technology and we hope to have 18,000 hours of Gaelic and Scots on the internet, as I said earlier. If all goes well with that, jobs will follow on from it. We also want to create jobs in connection with the internet. We can be sure that the college would be very involved and would take full advantage of information technology to meet those ends."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 685.0,
      "ContributionID": 155787,
      "EditedText": "'S ma dh'fhaodas mi ràdh neach-cathraich, mholamaid do bhuill a' Chomataidh coimhead air an site againn. Tha mòran rudan inntinneach air a thaobh na Gàidhlig agus na Colaisde agus rudan eile agus ma tha cothrom agaibh thigibh thuige."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 676.0,
      "ContributionID": 155783,
      "EditedText": "Everything that Mr Munro has said about the development of Gaelic is true. Although everyone involved with this issue is a wee bit discouraged, we draw some encouragement from the steps that have been taken in the past 10 years.Mr Munro raised the point about why people do not want to go into Gaelic-medium teaching. One of the main reasons for that is a lack of confidence, which touches on every aspect of Gaelic. It is not that people lack self-confidence, but that they lack confidence in their own language because they were never encouraged from an early age to believe in it. They came from communities where there was no economic value in the language, so it will take a while to reverse that trend.It is very important to have Gaelic-medium education as a right. The right of parents to have their children educated in Gaelic should be inalienable: councils should not be able to scrap Gaelic-medium education because they are short of funds. Once that right is assured, more people will avail themselves of the opportunity for Gaelic-medium education. Even teachers are unsure of the opportunities for promotional advancement in Gaelic-medium education. However, although we hope that Gaelic-medium education can be guaranteed, it does not look likely that it will.John Farquhar Munro spoke about funds. Something that is true of any development work, economic or cultural, is that, if it is successful, the work will demand more money. I know that resources cannot simply be added continually, but if the initial level is low, even a hundred years of doubling it will still result in a small sum.Gaelic is a unique part of the heritage of Scotland and if it dies in Scotland, it dies in the world—it has no other home. It is the responsibility of this Government to save our heritage and to keep our language alive. More old folk than young folk speak Gaelic, so we are losing a lot of Gaelic speakers. We do not have much time to create a Gaelic renaissance. We come here today, without embarrassment, to thank you for what you have done so far and also to say that more must be done. If we are to save the language, we will need more money as well as legislation on language."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 678.0,
      "ContributionID": 155784,
      "EditedText": "I was impressed by the fact that the Gaelic college's website got 1,000 hits a week. What do you think, Mr Dick, of the inevitable and inexorable spread of the internet and the influence that it will have on all cultures? Do you see that as an opportunity for Gaelic culture or as a threat? Beyond the obvious potential for access to Gaelic courses, do you have any ambitions to exploit the internet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Following is the simultaneous interpretation:\r\u000b",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 691.0,
      "ContributionID": 155790,
      "EditedText": "There are other communities throughout the Highlands and Islands which are involved in different projects. Taigh Arrainn on the isle of Arran has an excellent website, which records the history and culture of the island. In Ness in Lewis in the Western Isles, there is a website that carries the local newspaper. That is just a start, but there are many other related opportunities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ID": 3536,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 699.0,
      "ContributionID": 155794,
      "EditedText": "Tha mi smaoineachadh gu bheil sin ceart agus rud eile a chuirinn ris an sin gun robh, gu bho chionn glè ghoirid, mòran phàrantan, 's dòcha, nach robh annta fhèin uamhasach cinnteach an robh a' chlann dol a dhèanamh fìor adhartais ann an Foghlam tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig—an robh e dol gan cumail air ais? 'S dòcha gu bheil e fìor a ràdh gun robh feadhainn dhen luchd-teagaisg a bha dhen bheachd sin cuideachd. Ach air an t-seachdainn seo chaidh chaidh aithisg uamhasach cudromach fhoillseachadh bho Oilthigh Shruighlea bhon an t-Ollamh Richard Johnston far a bheil dearbhadh cinnteach, chan e mhàin gu bheil Foghlam tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig buannachdail ach ann an cuid a shuidhichean, gu bheil a' chlann a tha ag obair tro Fhoghlam tro Mheadhan na Gàidhlig a' dèanamh nas fheàrr na chlann a tha faotainn foghlam tro mheadhan na Beurla a-mhàin. Tha sin cuideachd a' cur ris an aon seòrsa co-dhùnaidhean a nochd as a' Chuimrigh—'s e fìor naidheachd chudromach a tha sin—'s e naidheachd chudromach a tha sin tha mi smaoineachadh dha pàrantan a tha beachdachadh air dà-chànanas san fharsaingeachd, 's dòcha ioma cànain dhan chloinn aca. Tha e fìor a ràdh An Roinn Eòrpa a tha romhainn, 's e Roinn Eòrpa a tha ann anns am bi ioma cànain, chan e Roinn Eorpa fiu 's le dà chànan. Agus an rud mu dheireadh a chuirinn ris an sin, 's e an rud a thuirt Dòmhnall Màrtainn na bu tràithe. Tha gu h-oifigeil a-nise, a rèir aithris bho Phàrlamaid na h-Eòrpa fhèin, còrr air dà fhichead millean neach as an Roinn Eòrpa a' bruidhinn mion-chànan 's chan eil an suidheachadh a th' againn an seo le Gàidhlig na annas—tha an aon seòrsa suidhichean gan coinneachadh 's gan cothachadh air feadh na Roinn Eòrpa gu ìre gu beag no gu mòr an siud 's an seo ach tha còrr air dà fhichead millean duine a' bruidhinn mion-chànanan as an Roinn Eòrpa."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4796468+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Gaelic",
      "HeadingID": 3536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3536,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 707.0,
      "ContributionID": 155798,
      "EditedText": "That is wise advice and I am sure that many of us will follow it. I visited Sabhal Mòr Ostaig in another guise many years ago and was impressed by the facilities. I am delighted to hear about the expansion plans there and extremely interested in the information that has been given to us. It is part of this committee's remit to scrutinise the Executive's actions in relation to the Gaelic language. I know that the Executive is anxious to pursue the development of the language in a bipartisan way, which is welcome. We will certainly return to discuss the matter further in due course. I am also pleased that John Munro has been able to make his contribution to this meeting in Gaelic, which is an opportunity that has not always been available to him in the institution of the Scottish Parliament, if I can put it as delicately as that. I also want to record our thanks to the interpreters, whose translations have been very helpful. I look forward to seeing everyone again. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:08.4014922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
      "HeadingID": 3537,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Brian Duffield (Director and Chief Executive, University of the Highlands and Islands Project): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 712.0,
      "ContributionID": 155800,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. We are pleased to be here and to have the opportunity to brief you and members of the committee on the progress of the University of the Highlands and Islands. I am joined by Dr John French, the head of academic development, and by Dr Ray Harris, the co-ordinator of strategic projects with specific responsibilities for our community learning networks. If you agree, convener, I shall give a general progress report and invite my colleagues to update the committee on the specific aspects for which they are responsible."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155809",
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    "Time": {
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      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Duffield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 734.0,
      "ContributionID": 155809,
      "EditedText": "We are making good progress thus far but we are not complacent and we take nothing for granted. Our achievements have been secured through hard work and through being honest about the challenges that we face. I refer the committee to the strategic plan, which shows that we have reflected on our circumstances and that we have tried to ensure that we make orderly progress.We have benefited from considerable financial support, but we do not believe that a university is built with bricks, concrete, glass, or a complex wiring system. Universities are made up of people. We have embraced strongly the important challenge provided by the human resources on which we depend, including the professional staff, the academic staff and the support staff who will move our agenda forward.We must, as my colleagues have said, move our agenda forward in new ways. To do that we have made major investments in staff development programmes. That is no longer the biggest challenge, but it is the biggest opportunity to take things forward.We have cracked the dilemma of the tyranny of space and there is every indication that we have raised community expectations in a way that will require us to be disciplined to ensure that we deliver what is expected. That is another challenge.Other dimensions are fundamental. We are aware of the institutional requirements that face us and we will overcome problems by looking inwards at our own capabilities."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155805",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Please make your presentation as swiftly as possible so we can move on to questions."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155807",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ray Harris (Community Learning Networks – Strategic Project Co-ordinator, University of the Highlands and Islands Project): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 730.0,
      "ContributionID": 155807,
      "EditedText": "I suppose that if a picture is worth a thousand words, I can move very quickly through my presentation.Brian mentioned the tyranny of space and John mentioned our roots in community-based further education. A few years ago, many colleges started to develop centres—or access points—that offered access to a limited range of their curriculum. With local communities' desire for further educational opportunities, that led to the development of local learning centres.One example that I want to use as an illustration—I promise that it was chosen completely at random—happened in Lochaber in 1995. Lochaber Ltd, local employers and local training providers got together to establish the Lochaber opportunities centre and involved themselves in brokerage of courses and opportunities for study. Then UHI started to develop in such a way that, with the help of European money, we were able to establish the information and communications technology infrastructure shown on Brian's map. As a result, in 1999, we have a number of centres around Lochaber that are seen as a local college, or network, and provide UHI degree courses. As we speak, students are studying there for UHI degree courses, taught by colleagues from around the network. The first year of the tourism degree ran there last year and rural development and business administration are currently being taught. That is a quick picture—by 2000, there will be even more. In a sense, that is the UHI writ small.Such developments bring enormous challenges. We have to face, by necessity, the challenges that many universities face by choice. We have to consider the culture and history of the institutions involved. A key challenge is to make the most innovative use of the available technologies. We must not use them simply because they exist, but use them in an appropriate way, efficiently and effectively.We must think about the curriculum that we will offer, because not every subject should be offered everywhere. Consequently there is a need for local networks for local information.Marketing and promotion provides us with a big challenge, as does managing the revolution in community expectations—once we are in the communities, people want more from us. We must engage the rainbow alliance to which Brian referred.It is fundamental that we think about how students learn and that we change the learning paradigm. We can now move information about. Lecturers used to impart information but we can now do that much more quickly and efficiently in other ways. We must examine how we change the ways in which we deliver the programmes.All those challenges are faced by the Scottish and English universities for industry. We are working as closely as we can with them in the developments that are going ahead.That was a brief picture of what we are trying to do through learning networks. It is important that such a network is of benefit to the local community in terms of education, training and economic and social development. That is the aim of UHI. As I am the last speaker I get the prize of showing you a slide that is now quite old—it deals with the economic prize. The information on it is being updated as we speak. Members of the committee may have seen the figures on the slide before, but I can promise that the new figures will be bigger."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155815",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Harris: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 746.0,
      "ContributionID": 155815,
      "EditedText": "Dr French's point about simulations backs up what I was trying to say about the use of technology. It is now possible for students to feel as though they are using expensive pieces of equipment.The UHI also works with other universities. That approach has worked very well with medicine—through early forms of video-conferencing, a surgeon in Cambridge could perform an operation and talk to students in Dundee or Edinburgh. Furthermore, students could ask questions and receive feedback. We will be operating similar devices."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155818",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "University of the Highlands and Islands",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr French: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 753.0,
      "ContributionID": 155818,
      "EditedText": "I do not have much more to add. In the past few years, we have discovered significant benefit in bringing together partners to achieve critical mass. Higher education cannot be developed unless a certain critical mass is achieved, but through bringing partners together, we have seen it emerge. I am sure that, at a future stage of our development, we will try to produce a balanced portfolio of courses and schemes that will avoid duplication—it is better to have one good course in one area than three or four courses that duplicate. We can start to do so now that we have created the new faculty structures that I have described. If you look in the prospectus, you will find descriptions of all the courses in each faculty and you will see the areas that are grouped together.There are other challenges beyond rationalisation. Teams of staff are operating across the network and working in collaboration with one another so that they bring individual strengths to network teams, whereas previously they were grouped in single college teams. Bringing people together and using a communications infrastructure to support learning will be of real benefit in the future. Rationalisation is a fairly hard word, and we must take care when using it. We are looking for balanced portfolios of courses."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155820",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 757.0,
      "ContributionID": 155820,
      "EditedText": "Professor Duffield, I note your intention imminently to seek designated institution status, and I understand fully why you want to do that. The University of the Highlands and Islands is a unique educational institution. Is there a danger that, in being awarded designated institution status, you may find yourselves in the position of invidious comparison with other university institutions, not only in Scotland but in the United Kingdom? Looking ahead, do you anticipate a pitch to recruit students outwith the Highland area?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Duffield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 759.0,
      "ContributionID": 155821,
      "EditedText": "The process of creating universities in the current climate is sequential and requires that those who seek that status demonstrably fulfil the requirements of the sector. That is why we were delighted that the former Secretary of State for Scotland decided to ask the Quality Assurance Agency—the UK agency that advises the Privy Council on university status—to be formally involved in the designation decision. There is no way in which we can circumvent, or short-circuit, quality requirements. Moreover, because the process is sequential—involving designation, end-degree-awarding powers, research-degree-awarding powers and university title—there are quality milestones by which we can demonstrate that we can fulfil the requirements. Similarly, the acquisition of Open University accreditation status required us to satisfy the requirements not of ourselves but of a panel that was constituted by the validation service.The approach of the Quality Assurance Agency is by peer review. The visiting panel will compare delivery in UHI against that in other institutions throughout the country. If we do not fulfil expectations, we will not be designated—nor should we be. I worry not, therefore, except that we should be open in fulfilling the criteria. Following the Dearing and Garrick reports, we are now celebrating diversity in the higher education sector, not spreading the myth that we are all miniature Oxfords and Cambridges. There are many and various institutions, and quality is defined as fitness for purpose. We have declared our distinctive mission and we will be held accountable by our peers. We intend to offer the distinctive opportunities that are available in the Highlands and Islands, not only to our own people but to those recruited from elsewhere in Scotland and the UK. We already attract students from abroad and we expect their number to grow."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C155824",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 765.0,
      "ContributionID": 155824,
      "EditedText": "I wish to follow on from Fergus's question. We were told this morning that the UHI was the answer to the financial problems of the further education colleges. As an ex-lecturer who took voluntary redundancy last year, I understand how an economics lecture in Inverness could be video-conferenced to 13 institutions and 28 learning centres. I know that many colleges are facing voluntary and compulsory redundancies. That relates to rationalisation, which George Lyon mentioned. I am concerned about the benefits to local communities, where there may be one lecturer in one place and where there will not be the local input or even the access to a tutor that students would have through the Open University. I am worried about what amounts almost to centralisation as a result of the tremendous strains that cost cutting is putting on your sector."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155827",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 771.0,
      "ContributionID": 155827,
      "EditedText": "I support access to education, particularly through creative schemes such as those that you run. The age profile of students was mentioned. A lot of young people do their growing up in an academic community. What can the University of the Highlands and Islands offer them?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155828",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Duffield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 773.0,
      "ContributionID": 155828,
      "EditedText": "The idea behind the University of the Highlands and Islands was to meet the needs locally of those young people who seldom came back after having left the region. It is important to create a level playing field of opportunities for young adults; we are not trying to corral them in the Highlands and Islands. Many young people will continue to want to go to places of higher education in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and so on and they should be encouraged to do so. Other young people, however, might find that there are constraints—often financial—that keep them closer to home. In a period of credit accumulation and transfer, some will want to do a foundation year close to home and then move to other institutions for honours degrees. We have an articulation agreement with the University of Aberdeen, our sister institution, whereby our students can move on to do honours degrees there. I think that flexibility will grow as people trade their credit—as paying clients—for educational opportunities. Without doubt, some of them will choose to benefit from opportunities close to home. Equally, we expect to draw to our living laboratory those students from other places of higher education who want the kind of experiences that they cannot get in the cities."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C155714",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 155714,
      "EditedText": "Everyone talked in their opening statements about unemployment, about how the council provides employment in rural areas and about how dependent rural areas are on jobs provided by the council. Has Highland Council considered using new technology to enable more sustainable jobs to be moved out to rural areas?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 155696,
      "EditedText": "Let me pursue Allan's point on European aid. We will get €300 million until 2005. Will you clear up one procedural point? Would the use of that money on the upgrading of the Mallaig road, for example, be considered competent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3143742+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 20 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 822
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-20T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development",
      "HeadingID": 3535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 155512,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that answer, Iain. In the paper that HIE recently submitted to the development department, you suggested that the value of the fuel duty escalator could be refunded to extreme rural parts of the Highlands. You estimated that that could be as much as £12 million a year. Might that be a possible solution?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.3640332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 19 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5991,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5991,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 232465,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:01"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 232467,
      "EditedText": "We have with us this afternoon Jack McConnell, the Minister for Finance, to discuss European structural funds. Jack has to be away just after 3.20, so we will aim to finish about then. I also propose to take the special programme for the Highlands and Islands first, and to try to keep the discussion of each part of the agenda discrete.Minister, before I invite you to make your preliminary presentation, I would like to say, on the committee's behalf, that we are extremely concerned by the documentation that we have received and by the time scale in which we received it. I know that you also suffered delays in getting the document, but we feel strongly that we cannot do our job properly—we cannot give adequate scrutiny—in the very short space of time in which the document has been before us. Worse than that, the document is full of gaps. There are certain pieces of information that we still do not have, and others that we received only belatedly. The feeling—rightly—is that if the committee is to do due justice to the process, then in future there must be some improvement in any similar documentation that comes before the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 232469,
      "EditedText": "Before I throw the meeting open to questions, I want to raise a few points. Early in your introduction, Mr McConnell, you mentioned that you would have preferred to have this discussion a week later. I think that we all would have preferred that. Among other things, it would have avoided the problem of having to convene a meeting this week. However, we were advised that, because of the time scale, next week would have been too late. It is unfortunate that we are discussing a document that is, to say the least, incomplete.One of my general concerns is that, although the document is a weighty tome and is full of facts and figures, it lacks some of the strategic vision that you mentioned and is weak in many essential details. I hope that we can tease out some of those details in the course of our discussion. I am aware that this is the plan team's document, Mr McConnell, not yours and I am glad that you are prepared to listen to our comments before making a final decision. However, the committee had a fairly useful discussion when the document was at an early draft stage and, from my reading of the document, it looks as though our comments have simply been ignored by the plan team in the final document. That is unfortunate. Maureen Macmillan and other committee members made very specific comments that seem to have been overlooked. Although I have a number of questions and comments that I want to make, I will bring in other members of the committee before I do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 232472,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could save that point for the third element of our discussion on the review of administrative arrangements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 232477,
      "EditedText": "That is what I am reading from."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 232478,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful if I said that the document has no details about the monitoring committee because the review of administrative arrangements that is taking place also includes the monitoring committee and the programme management executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 232479,
      "EditedText": "So we do not know yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 232482,
      "EditedText": "I would be very surprised if organisations in the Highlands and Islands did not have projects in the pipeline, to use your phrase. However, we are not yet ready to accept funding applications as we have to agree the strategic plan to give some context to the applications. Applications have to meet the strategic objectives and the allocations that are in the document. Although I suspect that active organisations in the Highlands and Islands have projects ready for the pipeline, they will have to tailor their applications to the plan that the Commission finally agrees. Otherwise, resources will not be freed up for them.The plan will not affect the Highlands and Islands Convention in any way. Decisions about the convention are an entirely separate matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 232483,
      "EditedText": "I am still concerned about the lack of detail in the document. I know that everything seems to have been done in a terrible rush. However, the document does not tell us what projects with objective 1 funding have worked or not worked, nor does it give us details about proposals for the present set of funding. For example, the Kintyre-Ballycastle ferry crossing is mentioned as having been funded, but I know from experience that the service has problems. Other areas that are mentioned in the document might also have problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Stephen (Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 232494,
      "EditedText": "Are you reading from the measures for agriculture that have been prepared?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 232495,
      "EditedText": "I am reading from your document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 232503,
      "EditedText": "Ben Wallace asked an important question about waste water, because any small town in the Highlands and Islands with under 10,000 inhabitants, of which there are many, will be non-statutory by definition. Some of us may question what the North of Scotland Water Authority's capital programme is about.I will focus on the support for the primary sector, particularly the fisheries measure and the amount of money that is to be allocated, under this draft plan, on page 136. My concern is that we are going backwards in terms of funding the fisheries sector.You rightly made a point about a strategic economic tool. I would argue that, in the context of this plan, fisheries delivers more strategic economic outputs than many other areas. If you take the five years of funding under the first objective 1 programme, when you added financial instrument for fisheries guidance and Pesca funding together, less money is now spent in a seven-year period. You encouraged people to make representations to you about increasing funding in certain areas, I think that you can justify an increase in FIFG funding to achieve the objectives that we all want to achieve, and do that by reallocating within the overall allocations. Fisheries, whether the catching, aquaculture or processing sector, have many strategic objectives, such as adding value and ensuring that the product is processed in the Highlands and Islands and not outside it, that meet many of the economic output requirements. There should be a strong pitch for more funding in this area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 232505,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with that at all. I possibly agree with it, as my point is that they are businesses and they need that kind of support, because it will make a difference in a fragile part of the world. The FIFG measures were oversubscribed last time round. Doreen Mellon will know this from the facts and figures. I have some of those in front of me and I will not bore you by going into them. However, because those are oversubscribed and as they are business investments, I would argue that this is a crucial sector, which should receive a higher allocation. You know that by making this kind of investment you will, to some extent, achieve your economic objectives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 232506,
      "EditedText": "My comments are on much the same lines as the previous two speakers. I am surprised at Ben coming back to infrastructure, given the committee's previous discussions on the strategic importance of infrastructure projects to developing the economy of the Highlands and Islands. Are you happy that the strategic objective of reducing disparity across the region, so-called internal cohesion, has been properly met in the draft financial allocation? Infrastructure projects require greater emphasis than has, arguably, been given. At the previous committee meeting, I talked about the weaknesses in the sectoral overview; for example, the exclusion of the transport and construction sectors. Are you satisfied that those weaknesses have been addressed and that improvements in transport and infrastructure will be possible to stimulate growth in related economic activity? I agree that improving water quality is of benefit, not just to agriculture but to fishing and tourism as well. External cohesion is addressed by targeting the funds in the Highlands and Islands to bring them up to the European average. If we are to reduce the social and economic disparities within the Highlands and Islands and address internal cohesion, infrastructure projects are vital. The emphasis should be more on infrastructure projects and creating the conditions for regional competitiveness than it currently is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 232510,
      "EditedText": "I thank the minister for some useful answers. I would like to know what strategic approach is being taken to the end of the transition period. At the moment we have, effectively, a blank space. I want to tease out how we might deal with that by seeking flexibility in Government expenditure. On 8 October, Donald Dewar was quoted in The Herald newspaper as saying:\"If money from Europe goes up then the money we get from the Treasury would go down because we can't go above what we are entitled to under the Barnett Formula.\"I presume that the converse is true: if the Highlands and Islands no longer receive money from European structural funds, the money that they receive via the Barnett formula will increase. I am sure that the minister will confirm that. In other words, structural funds are non-additional to Scotland's overall bottom-line position. If that is the case, at the end of the transition period will the Executive give consideration to maintaining the level of spending in the Highlands, because the money will still form part of the Scottish block?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 232516,
      "EditedText": "That touches on a matter that this committee has considered before. Jack, you told the committee that, because of the way in which the Barnett formula works, there will be no reduction in overall expenditure in Scotland. Donald Dewar made the same point to the Parliament. Our concern is that any money that remains in the block should be used flexibly to meet our priorities. Bruce has made that point on a number of occasions, and we will have to return to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 232519,
      "EditedText": "I realise that we do not want to stray too much into general issues, but this is an important point. The minister is confirming that structural funds do not affect the overall bottom-line budget. I would like to know how the money is accounted for in terms of the structural funds that are allocated to other parts of the UK. We can then begin to understand the implications for budgets south of the border."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 232522,
      "EditedText": "Please do so very quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Doreen Mellon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 232526,
      "EditedText": "Priority 2, measure 5, which relates to the community and social infrastructure, has been adjusted since we received the committee's previous comments, to deal with the point that Cathy Jamieson has raised. She also mentioned capacity building, and it has been made more explicit that increased provision would be made for that in regard to human resource development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 232530,
      "EditedText": "Certainly. This is one of several issues that have caused a delay in the drafting of this section. We hope that the implementing regulation, when it is finally published, will clarify the matter, but I will ensure that Dr Ewing receives a note about it. I also take on board Cathy Jamieson's point and will ensure that the thrust of what she has said is reflected in the plan in its final form."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 232532,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of statements there that demand a response at the very least. Having heard a list of them, we should produce a written response for you, as convener of the committee, that would go on the record and could be circulated to committee members at the next meeting. There are one or two helpful comments that I could make. A draft of the consultation section of the paper was circulated on Friday, with the other papers that the clerk received. That draft is not complete, as the document is still in the consultative process. A factual statement about consultation will be completed at the end of the full consultation period, and will include consultation with this committee. While the Scottish Executive is not directly responsible for writing and producing this document for the committee, ultimately we are responsible for ensuring that this document is a success. I take that responsibility fully, which is why I am here today to listen to the committee. We must ensure that the document complies with the Commission's guidelines as well as our own local desires. That is why it is important—however difficult it might be, from time to time—for us to work in partnership locally. That can be difficult; it is not always a smooth path, but it is the best way. It is a model that is used throughout Europe, and which is based on the Scottish experience.Rather than take up more time this afternoon, convener, I would welcome the chance to respond in writing to the points that you made at the end of the discussion. I would appreciate it if that response were distributed among committee members with the next agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 232533,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful. Thanks very much, minister.I am aware of the time and of the committee's interest in the next item—objective 2 funding. I invite the minister to make a brief introduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 232539,
      "EditedText": "Would that include inviting the minister back?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 232540,
      "EditedText": "If necessary, we will invite the minister back. There is no difficulty at all in doing so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 232542,
      "EditedText": "It is not an area that I live about half a mile from, is it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 232545,
      "EditedText": "It will take me only a few words to answer the question: objective 3 funding covers the whole of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 232546,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but I gather that resources are targeted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 232547,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It is important that we get the targeting right and have flexibility across Scotland. Funds are targeted to objective 2 areas and the transition areas. We did everything we could to consult local authorities. Some provided us with detailed information about the most appropriate wards, while others were less able to do so. It was important for us to provide that opportunity. There are wards in different local authority areas that, if statistics are taken in isolation, appear to be among the most needy in Scotland. That is why we have to make the best use possible of the transition funding. If there are any adjustments to the map, we will continue to bear those areas in mind.We have managed to negotiate to the point where we have the maximum targeting that is possible. To focus in further, with regard to the size of groups of wards, would be difficult and might jeopardise the whole map, but we will do everything that we can to ensure that the transition funding is put to the best use. Let us be frank about this matter: the objective 2 areas that have lost their coverage on the map include some of the most prosperous parts of Scotland. The transition funding will not be needed in every single one of those wards, but it is needed, and will be needed, in some parts of Stirling, Dundee, Keith in Moray district, in some parts of Ayrshire, Falkirk and perhaps in some parts of Edinburgh. We want to make the best use possible of the transition funding. It is important that we try to do that without exaggerating the impact that the funds can have: it is only slightly more than €150 million over the next five or six years, but it is an amount of money that we can work on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 232550,
      "EditedText": "May I say one quick thing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 232556,
      "EditedText": "I think that my position is very clear on that matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 232561,
      "EditedText": "Yes, with regard to the alleged benefits of devolution. I accept entirely the point that you are making that giving the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament a role in determining how to target funds is a potential benefit, but surely it is only a benefit—irrespective of some of the political posturing that has gone on—if we can target the funds into the areas of greatest need and social deprivation.With regard to Keith's point, what is the correlation between the objective 2 map and the assisted area status map, which is drawn up at a UK level? There will be some overlap and duplication, but some areas will find themselves on one map and not on the other. The Executive must target available surplus resources away from those areas that do not need assisted areas support and into those areas that do, but which find themselves outside the objective 2 funding. That would be a benefit of devolution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 232562,
      "EditedText": "No matter how devolved we are, or how devolved we could be, inside the European Union—on this day of discussing words in relation to Europe—it is important for us always to recognise that we are not the sole agents in this matter. With regard to the funding mechanisms, we are negotiating, discussing and agreeing within criteria. The criteria for the assisted areas map are different from the criteria for the objective 2 map.We have done what we can to try to ensure that the maps link together, but if they had completely mapped across each other there would have been more squeals across Scotland, because one of the benefits of the criteria being slightly different is that, as Dr Jackson said at the beginning, there are some parts of Scotland that have assisted areas status and do not have objective 2 status, and some are the other way round. At the very least, hope and opportunity have been given to more areas than otherwise would have been the case.Our job, as the Executive and the Parliament, is to ensure that we use both sets of funds to the best possible advantage of as many communities in Scotland as possible, and that in seven years' time we find ourselves in an even stronger set of economic circumstances so that when the funds get stretched to the east of Europe, those of us on the far west of Europe are able to survive economically in an increasingly difficult world."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 232572,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I know that you want to go.We will break for five minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 232573,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 232575,
      "EditedText": "The next item is the scrutiny of European documents. We may take this item relatively slowly, so that we do not miss anything out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 232576,
      "EditedText": "Did everybody receive the comments from the Health and Community Care Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 232580,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, you should read out some of it.The first document is consideration of the report from the Health and Community Care Committee on the \"Proposal for a Directive of—\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 232582,
      "EditedText": "Sorry. Let us return to the scrutiny recommendation note of sift date 6 October, document 295 (EC Ref No 10499/99, COM(99)372 final). The recommendation is: \"Await explanatory memorandum and consider at next committee meeting.\"Agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 232583,
      "EditedText": "Next, the recommendation on document 298 (EC Ref No 10461/99, COM(99)377 final CNB 99/0164) is for no further action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 232585,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is probably the case. As I have said on a number of occasions, the summer timetable and summer recess have caused us some problems. I will speak to my colleagues in the Cabinet Office to see whether we can speed things up in future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 232586,
      "EditedText": "For document 310 (EC Ref No 10408/99, COM(99)364 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 317 (EC Ref No 10541/99, COM(99) 352 final 99/0152 (COD)), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 331 (EC Ref No 10644/99, COM(99)427 final), we are advised to take no further action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 232587,
      "EditedText": "What does the \"Notes and Decision Rationale\" section in the sift/scrutiny recommendation note mean with regard to this document? I know what the text says, but I am not sure what it actually means."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 232588,
      "EditedText": "Where is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 232592,
      "EditedText": "A very good funding mechanism seems to have disappeared. The European Investment Bank granted money to banks in the UK—although Scottish banks were not in the scheme until people complained—which meant that banks had more leeway when granting overdraft facilities and could take greater than normal risks in the commercial world. However, although the scheme benefited business start-ups and so on, it has stopped. Can the briefing paper contain information about whether the scheme is still with us; and, if it is not, whether that is because the banks cannot be bothered to keep it going?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 232596,
      "EditedText": "Document 350 could be important to our citizenry. I do not know whether other committee members are aware of the case in the Highlands of the lady whose child has been abducted by her husband, who has done it before. A Scottish court enforced a French court's judgment, even though we warned the court that the man had abducted the child before. The child is now missing in the depths of Europe and Interpol is on the case. As such judgments among member states can cause problems in our constituencies, perhaps we can exercise care when the matter comes up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 232597,
      "EditedText": "Okay.For document 351 (EC Ref No 10902/99, COM(99)178 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 352 (EC Ref No 10906/99, COM(99)407 final), we are advised to take no further action, but we should refer the matter to the Health and Community Care Committee. That is agreed.For document 353 (EC Ref No 8023/99, ENFOPOL 36), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 232599,
      "EditedText": "Document 353 is the Austrian delegation's submission. It is not the complete report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 232609,
      "EditedText": "On 368, when we say no further action, does it mean that we will not do anything until we receive it, and then we will think about it, or does it mean that we will not do any more about it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 232611,
      "EditedText": "I remember some controversy about aid being provided for internal EU residents within different countries and the problems with that. Was that matter not discussed at the Justice and Home Affairs Committee? Should we not let it see that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 232612,
      "EditedText": "The Justice and Home Affairs Committee should see that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 232622,
      "EditedText": "It was agreed between the clerks, with the approval of the Rural Affairs Committee convener, that the Rural Affairs Committee would not be able to meet before this meeting, but that the committee would give us whatever comments its members had. We would then be able to proceed, having referred the document to the Rural Affairs Committee and received its comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 232638,
      "EditedText": "That gives me a great sense of relief. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5994,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ID": 5994,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 232650,
      "EditedText": "Thanks very much, Stephen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ID": 5995,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 232657,
      "EditedText": "I met the deputy chairman of the SPD group in the Bavarian Parliament. This is one of a number of expressions of interest that we have received from regional parliaments and assemblies throughout Europe. David is absolutely right: there is a huge amount of interest in what is happening in Scotland. Herr Maget brought the best wishes not just of the SPD group, but of the Bavarian Parliament as a whole, and indicated that the Parliament would at some point like to meet formally the committee and representatives of this Parliament to discuss areas of common interest. The Bavarians would be more than happy to meet us here, but any member of this committee who happens to be in Bavaria is also welcome to contact the Bavarian Parliament. What Herr Maget said about the history of Bavaria and its relationship with the German state raised issues of relevance to our future relationship with other parts of the United Kingdom.Winnie, you met the Basque representative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ID": 5995,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 232658,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ID": 5995,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 232660,
      "EditedText": "I met the minister responsible for foreign affairs. The Basque country is a remarkable part of the Spanish state, because it has more powers than Catalonia. In terms of its powers, the Basque country compares more closely with Scotland than Catalonia does. However, because of the erstwhile violence in the Basque lands, which seems to have come to an end following the magnificent agreement that has been signed by all parties—I hope that it works—nobody wanted to make that comparison.The Basque country is a marvellous place to visit. It has an amazing co-operative movement, which has to be seen to be believed. The Basques are very hard-working, energetic people, with their own mysterious language—no one knows how it got there and where it came from, but it is what they like to speak. It was very interesting to hear about their plans. Like the Bavarians, they hope that some members will want to visit their Parliament. I have done so many times."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5996,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 5996,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 232663,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other requests for briefing? If not, the next meeting will be on 26 October. Stephen, is there sufficient business for a meeting on 26 October? There is no point in dragging members into a meeting just for the sake of it when we could wait until the meeting on 9 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5996,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 5996,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 232664,
      "EditedText": "There will be the committee's regular scrutiny function of papers received since we last carried out a sift. We wanted to put the sixth economic report on regional development on the agenda for discussion on 26 October. The meeting after that on 9 November will be partly taken up with the delegation from Saxony-Anhalt. To be fair, we would want to allocate a fairly substantial proportion of the meeting to visitors from that far away. I leave it to members to decide whether there is sufficient business for 26 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5996,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 5996,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 232666,
      "EditedText": "With great respect to our visitors, we will not be giving them three hours of the committee's time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5996,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 5996,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 232668,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:11."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 19 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5991,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5991,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Hugh Henry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 232466,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the sixth meeting of the European Committee. I apologise for the cramped surroundings in which we find ourselves. It is somewhat ludicrous, given that this is the only committee that is meeting this afternoon, that we have been pushed into this small room. I believe, however, that precedence has been given to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee that is on its way to Inverness. The microphones have been purloined from the committee meeting rooms upstairs to allow it to have its meeting covered. It is absurd that we are meeting in such cramped surroundings on a very important issue that is of significant interest throughout Scotland. A number of people have had to be refused entry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 232474,
      "EditedText": "There is a separate item on the agenda on the review of administrative arrangements for the new programmes. Some of your concerns apply equally to other programmes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 232484,
      "EditedText": "Doreen Mellon is the official who has been responsible for the plan team and has been involved in discussions about learning lessons. It might be more appropriate for her to answer that question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 232486,
      "EditedText": "Although I accept that the evaluation cannot take place until the programme has ended, has not there been an interim evaluation that has raised criticisms?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 232493,
      "EditedText": "The project selection criteria are quite restrictive. If people are to diversify successfully, they must take a few risks, rather than do bed and breakfast or the other standard businesses that people may be asked to diversify into."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Stephen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 232498,
      "EditedText": "We will examine it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 232500,
      "EditedText": "That is an important question. It is the sort of question that I ask regularly. The uses to which those funds can be put do not include projects that would be a statutory requirement of an existing Government or local government programme in Scotland. Those funds are in addition to those projects. In the Highlands and Islands, we must recognise that transport or water and sewerage provisions and improvements may be required that are clearly statutory requirements. However, there are projects that could also be pursued relating to both those headings that are not statutory requirements, but would help to achieve the outcomes desired in this plan: to reduce disparity between different communities across the Highlands and Islands and to improve its economic infrastructure. It would be against the objectives and criteria set by this plan that any projects under those headings would take the place of proper funding for statutory requirements that should be met by us or by local government in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 232504,
      "EditedText": "To link those two questions, it is important to note that one of the areas in which money allocated for water and sewage projects could be of direct benefit to business development is fish processing. While there is a figure for fisheries regulation, it is subject to some discussion, and many of the other allocations will include elements that will benefit not just fishing but farming, to come back to Mr Mundell's question.We must be creative in our interpretation of the description of business in the Highlands. Partly because of the European priority given to them over the past decades there is a tendency to treat fishing and farming as separate from the rest of business and economic development in Scotland, when they are integral and central to business and economic development in much of rural Scotland. It is important to bear that in mind. Projects will come up under other allocations in those headings that will be of direct or pump-priming benefit to fishing and to agricultural economies.If any member would like to make more detailed comments on those sections that were circulated late, I would be happy to receive them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 232507,
      "EditedText": "In my introductory remarks, I was careful to say that one of the main objectives in preparing those plans must be to ensure that we operate within the overall European Commission guidelines. Therefore, although sometimes what we would like to do with €300 million does not necessarily fit with those guidelines, the plan must be put together according to those.I understand that the plan team has taken on board, at least partially, the comments made by the committee on this the last time round. I would be interested to hear if members think that it should go further. We must also bear in mind that as well as investment in infrastructure, it is important that the other elements that make up the overall Highlands and Islands structural funds programme are accounted for. As the plan currently stands, by far the biggest investment is in the communications infrastructure.We must be aware of the need for not just transport infrastructure but telecommunications infrastructure, if we are serious about creating jobs for the future rather than preserving jobs from the past in the Highlands and Islands. Some of the more exciting developments in the Highlands in recent months have involved new technology being used on a small scale in rural communities, to link public and private in a way that creates jobs locally and helps save or develop local public services. Where that is possible, and structural funds can be used to pump-prime those developments, that would be good news in the long term. That is the direction in which we must go to spread economic growth across a wider area than the immediate environment of Inverness.We must be aware that changes will take place over the next decade across the Highlands and Islands, at Dounreay and elsewhere. There will also be changes in the economies of the islands. Those factors must be taken into account. That is why the plan must have flexibility in it at this stage. We will be responding to events as well as working within an overall framework."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 232513,
      "EditedText": "I welcome and share his optimism."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 232514,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful to the convener for his partisanship."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 232515,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we plan for the longer term, but it would be inappropriate for me to tie the hands of future Administrations, even implicitly. However, over the next six or seven years we have an opportunity to use the European funds that are available—along with other substantial public funds that have been allocated to the Highlands and Islands—in a co-ordinated fashion. That will ensure that the relative economic prosperity of the Highlands and Islands does not suffer as a result of enlargement of the European Union and changes in the global economy, and that that corner of north-western Europe is in a strong economic position in seven years' time.I would be very surprised if, six or seven years from now, a Scottish Parliament and a Scottish Executive that were serious about their business—whatever their political colour—did not take into account the position of the Highlands and Islands when deciding what to do with those resources, once they have been freed up. However, at this stage, when we are setting out to be successful in the Highlands and Islands, it would be wrong to assume failure. Nearer the time, I hope that we will be able to examine the situation objectively and to make the best judgments not only for the Highlands and Islands, but for the whole of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 232523,
      "EditedText": "We have heard about how good the outcomes have been, both for the Highlands and Islands and for the areas covered by objective 2 funding. We have been offered comparisons with the situation south of the border, but not qualitative information on what has happened in other EU countries, such as Denmark, Austria, Greece and Portugal. We need that information to judge how successful we have been in obtaining structural funds for Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 232527,
      "EditedText": "Winnie, you had a question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 232528,
      "EditedText": "I thought that you had ruled out discussion of fishing. Perhaps I misunderstood you, because immediately afterwards another member raised a point about fishing.I have many questions but, rather than take up too much of the committee's time, I will mention only one of my concerns. This document refers to modernisation grants and new building grants, but I was under the impression—perhaps I am out of date, as I have not been a member of the European Parliament since July—that, under the multi-annual guidance programme, we do not have access to those grants. I do not need an answer now, but I would like a note on where we stand with regard to the MAGP. We seem to have lost out because we do not meet the criteria. I often wonder why we allow our part-time vessels to be included on the register when other EU states do not, and whether that is what places us above the MAGP threshold."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 232529,
      "EditedText": "Can you arrange for Dr Ewing to be sent a note, minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C232536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 232536,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful to you, convener, for allowing me to speak, as I am not a formal member of this committee. In the context of objective 2 funding, I would like to clarify some of the points that Bruce mentioned a moment ago.Minister, you said that we have benefited more than any other European Union states, with one or two exceptions. You also mentioned the achievement of 40 per cent population coverage. The question, however, is this: how does that coverage compare with the UK average? Given that, in any structural fund allocation, we cannot get more than a Barnett formula share, that does not do Scotland any good whatsoever. The statement that we have done better than any other European Union state is not accurate. If we are getting only the average of what the UK is allocated in terms of the bottom-line budget, all these debates, negotiations and discussions have not come to much. They affect the Highlands and Islands, and the other regions that are concerned, but only in the context of the Scottish budget, which itself has not gained. Is that the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 232541,
      "EditedText": "Jack, you might know what I am going to ask about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 232548,
      "EditedText": "What is driving the question—as has been commented on by a number of members—is that there are obvious anomalies, with areas of opportunity being included and areas of need not being included. We are looking for an assurance that it is still possible to address any obvious anomalies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 232549,
      "EditedText": "It would be wrong of me to raise expectations that there is some kind of appeals process, but there is a process of discussion with the Commission about the map that has been submitted. It does no harm for members of Parliament to make representations on behalf of particular areas because if, for example, the Commission said that in general the map was agreeable but certain parts of it were unacceptable, that might open doors for other areas, but I would not want to raise expectations. All I can do is encourage members to write to me on behalf of particular areas and the letters will not only be replied to, they will be used during discussions if we have the opportunity to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C232552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 232552,
      "EditedText": "It is important not to underestimate the impact of the funding. It is a small amount of money, but for Falkirk that means taking a strategic approach with other agencies to deliver something that is positive. The funding covers social inclusion partnership areas. We are talking about unemployment levels of between 12 and 15.5 per cent within communities, where other moneys have been brought in to try and deal with the issues of high unemployment and poverty. It is disappointing that whole areas of Falkirk have not been included."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 232555,
      "EditedText": "I will talk about the same subject, although I will not go into detail about a particular couple of wards in a certain constituency, because Jack knows them as well as I do. I am glad that comments that were made at this committee previously have been taken on board. It is fair to say that there are some areas that have been included on the map when, in the initial draft, they did not appear to be anywhere near being considered.I seek assurances in relation to the transitional areas. To an extent, we have already had some assurance, in that there will be a recognition that some areas have been excluded for what might be called technical difficulties with the map drawing, rather than because of a lack of need. There are some areas which, by any objective criteria such as unemployment levels, the need for social inclusion partnerships and so on, fit poverty indicators but are not on the map. Hopefully, they will be given absolute priority under the transitional arrangements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C232557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid-Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 232557,
      "EditedText": "I wish to address the principle of using wards as building blocks, which Sylvia and others have referred to. You are right; they are tightly drawn and focused but they reduce flexibility. Of course, even with groups of wards there may be strategic sites just outside, in wards that are not anomalous, which could have a great bearing on employment in the groups of wards that have objective 2 status. That is the kind of problem that we are facing and there are many examples in mid-Scotland, Fife and Stirling, when wards are used as building blocks rather than the travel-to-work areas that were used before."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 232560,
      "EditedText": "Really?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 232563,
      "EditedText": "On the matter of the payments and the estimated €600 million, will it be paid in instalments? I note that we have to take into account euro currency fluctuations which, for long-term planning, could mean either more or less money, depending on how the money is paid. Will the money be paid in instalments, and does the Executive have plans to provide compensation if there are fluctuations in the value of the euro, which has fluctuated by 15 per cent this year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 232565,
      "EditedText": "It was interesting to hear Ben arguing that early entry into the euro might be a good idea. Laughter. I want to address objective 2, and particularly the 5b element and the impact on tourism, but I can see that the minister is in a hurry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 232566,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. I indicated to the convener in advance that I have a pressing appointment at half-past 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 232567,
      "EditedText": "I will write to the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 232570,
      "EditedText": "It would also be helpful if we could arrange to have you back to talk about the new programmes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 232571,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that we will find opportunities to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 232574,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 232577,
      "EditedText": "The comments were sent to me in an e-mail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 232590,
      "EditedText": "What I meant is that the convener and I have read through document 331 to follow up the query that was raised on 28 September about whether data protection was included in the scope of the directive. It does not appear to be and that was clarified in discussions with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 232594,
      "EditedText": "A few committee members have asked that document 340 be tabled on the agenda for discussion. As a result, we will not be taking it as a scrutiny function."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 232595,
      "EditedText": "Okay.For document 341 (EC Ref No 10705/99, COM(99)367 final), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 346 (EC Ref No 10736/99, COM(99)388 final), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 347 (EC Ref No 8615/99, COM(99)292 final 99/0125 (CNS)), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 348 (EC Ref No 9807/99, COM(99)322 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 349 (EC Ref No 10251/99, SEC(99)1213), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed.For document 350 (EC Ref No 10742/99 COM(99)348 final), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 232603,
      "EditedText": "For document 354 (EC Ref No 10950/99, JAI 67 AG27), the recommendation is no further action. That is agreed.For document 355 (EC Ref No 10543/99, EVAL 47 ELARG 88), the recommendation is no further action. That is agreed. For document 356 (EC Ref No 10938/99, COPEN 35), the recommendation is no further action. That is agreedFor document 357 (EC Ref No 11177/99), the recommendation is no further action. That is agreed.For document 358 (EC Ref No 10708/99, COM(99)414 final) the recommendation is no further action, but to copy it to the Transport and the Environment Committee for their interest.For document 359 (EC Ref No 10866/99 COM(99)213 final), the recommendation is no further action. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 232605,
      "EditedText": "Veterinary medicines are more expensive in this country than in other parts of Europe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 232607,
      "EditedText": "It is a codification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 232613,
      "EditedText": "We would have to give it document 356 as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 232615,
      "EditedText": "The recommendation is to amend document 356 to include reference for its interest to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. That is agreed.For document 368, the recommendation is also that it should be passed to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. That is agreed.For document 369 (EC Ref No 11097/99, COM(99)430 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 370 (EC Ref No 11012/99, COM(99)426 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 371 (EC Ref No 11013/99, COM(99)428 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 372 (EC Ref No 11117/99, COM(99)447 final), we are advised to take no further action, but refer it to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee for its interest. That is agreed.For document 373 (EC Ref No 11102/99, COM(99)446 final), we are advised to take no further action, but to send a copy to the Transport and the Environment Committee for its interest. That is agreed.Documents 292 (EC Ref No 10439/99, COM(99)382 final) and onwards are documents that we have already considered and are now coming back to. We referred the common fisheries document to the Rural Affairs Committee for scrutiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 232616,
      "EditedText": "That document has been circulated to the Rural Affairs Committee. Unfortunately, I understand that it has not been able to hold a formal meeting prior to our committee meeting, in order for us to inform the Executive and Westminster. However, the convener and the clerk of the Rural Affairs Committee invited members of that committee to send any comments to me before this meeting. I have not received any comments. If I had, I would have incorporated them into this committee's report on the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 232617,
      "EditedText": "My concern, as I have said already, is that the document talks about the justification for centralising the Fisheries Advisory Committee, but it does not say why it is advisable to centralise it. It worries me that it is to be centralised, unless our fishing associations are involved.The document also talks about Europe-wide associations, which, as I have already said, fills me with cynicism because if there is a formula you can bet that certain countries are right in there. We are sometimes a bit slow in ensuring that we fit the formula. Is a European association one that our Scottish Fishermen's Federation has some involvement in? It probably does, but it worries me a bit. I asked one of the members of the Rural Affairs Committee to pass on that concern to the SFF and to seek clarification: perhaps it has been done by now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 232618,
      "EditedText": "I share the concerns of Dr Ewing. I asked my local fishermen's association about this matter. Its concern was that the way in which the committee is constructed is not set in tablets of stone. As far as I understand it, the committee effectively has not done anything since 1971."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 232619,
      "EditedText": "It does not work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 232621,
      "EditedText": "I am struggling with the timetabling of the meetings of the Fisheries Council on 26 October and of the Westminster European Scrutiny Committee tomorrow. The Rural Affairs Committee has not had the chance to look at the document, so what do we do, Stephen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 232624,
      "EditedText": "I would like to agree with what Dr Ewing said. We do not want the European Committee to be set in tablets of stone. It must be able to adapt in future to changes in the way in which fisheries management is structured. That is the important comment that must be made"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 232626,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 232629,
      "EditedText": "The next document for consideration is document 301 (EC Ref No 10485/99, COM(99)329 final 99/0158), which concerns the directive on food additives other than colours and sweeteners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 232631,
      "EditedText": "What is this E number, and what is the chemical?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 232632,
      "EditedText": "The E number is E 650. I studied chemistry for a previous degree, so if I can find the reference I will put myself on the spot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 232633,
      "EditedText": "That is why you have ended up on the European Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 232634,
      "EditedText": "This is straightforward. I will not tell you the chemical formulation, but the chemical name is zinc acetate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 232640,
      "EditedText": "Is the health committee the lead committee on food additives? As Cathy correctly points out, all food additives and suchlike are authorised by Europe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 232641,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I could comment on that. Food safety is within the remit of the health committee, but I think that it would probably work as it has before. The European Committee is the lead committee but it may want to make referrals to other committees on particular subjects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 232644,
      "EditedText": "Now that Bruce is leaving, shall we move on to the discussion on objective 2 and funding? Laughter. The clerk has drawn to my attention that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee has referred a document back to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 232645,
      "EditedText": "Document 302 (EC Ref No 3710-01r1) has been referred back to us by the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which noted the document but did not have anything substantial that it wished to bring to our attention. I advise the committee, although it has not been clarified exactly how this will work, that there is discussion within the parliamentary services about taking on another person in the legal office to assist the committee in its understanding of the contents of these documents. That will help with the scrutiny process and will provide members with more briefing. We are conscious that you require support in understanding the detail of the documents beyond what the clerks are able to provide. We are considering human resource allocation with a view to increasing the number of people who are available to help you in your deliberations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 232646,
      "EditedText": "As we found out last week, there are many avid readers of our Official Report. The point was raised that it would be most helpful for them if EC references could appear in the Official Report—I notice that Stephen has put that into the minute—so that people could easily trace the document that we have been discussing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5994,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ID": 5994,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 232648,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 is an update on the consultation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ID": 5995,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 232654,
      "EditedText": "The feedback from everybody whom we have met has been positive. It will come as no surprise to anybody here that people in Europe, and within Brussels, are very interested in this Parliament. It was a bit more surprising to me that they were interested in this committee and its activities, and that they were able to quote back bits of our Official Report to us. That level of interest was positive, and we want to build on it. The Executive is to be congratulated on the initiative of Scotland week, as well as on the Scotland House initiative, which was also very impressive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ID": 5995,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 232659,
      "EditedText": "What was his response?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5996,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 5996,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 232665,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that we should wait until 9 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 232468,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for a warm welcome to a welcoming room. I agree that this is an important meeting of the committee. Although the surroundings do not match that importance, I hope that our discussion will.There are three issues before the committee this afternoon, but before I address them, the committee should be aware that Donald Dewar and I had a very productive introductory meeting during Scotland week in Brussels last week with the new commissioner, Michel Barnier. He is a French regional politician, and he has an affinity for Scotland that we welcome, given his responsibilities for the next few years. We have invited him to Scotland and we hope that he will take up that invitation in the months ahead. It is early in his days as the new commissioner with responsibility for structural funds, but we were struck by his commitment to the funds as a strategic economic tool, and by his commitment to regional and national identities within the context of the European Union. He recognises that as part of his work. He will be a tough commissioner to deal with, but I think that he will be a friend for Scotland. In the context of our success in Scotland over the last 50 years in dealing with the European Commission that is good news.As an introductory comment to our discussions, I would like to say that Commissioner Barnier is as committed as we are to a strategic approach to the use of the structural funds. He does not see them as a stopgap funding measure for local public bodies or others to use to fill gaps in provision or to deal with temporary local difficulties. He sees them as a strategic economic tool. Our job over the next few months, as we agree these plans and have them approved by the Commission, is to ensure that in six or seven years' time the plans have put us in strong economic circumstances so that, as enlargement occurs and our eligibility for structural funds inevitably decreases, we are not left with wasted opportunities. That is my approach and, I think, that of the new commissioner, which is good news for us.We had hoped to have a draft plan for the new objective 3 today, but it has proved difficult to agree speedily a percentage allocation for Scotland in the new objective 3. There is going to be a Scottish-wide programme for the European social fund and for the new structural funds and we want to ensure that we get the clearest agreement possible on the percentage of UK resources that will come to Scotland as part of that. It would not make sense to produce a draft plan until we know what that figure will be. As soon as we have that figure, we will start to work with the plan team and with department bodies to produce a draft plan that will be with this committee before any final decisions are made. You have my guarantee of that.I welcome the opportunity that this meeting will give me to comment on the programme management executives and the monitoring committees. Those reviews are important and I hope that we will have some time to touch on that at the end.This committee has probably met about a week earlier than we would have liked—and I suspect that that is true for everyone involved in the Highlands and Islands plan. An extra week would have given those preparing the plan more time to give you full notice of the documentation, which in turn would have given you more time to consider it in detail. We must, however, agree a plan to go to the Commission by 31 October and we intend to do so.The plan is based on a partnership approach and on consultation at a local level, and I am very keen to listen to the committee's views and take them on board before any decisions are made. That is what the relationship between ministers and committees in the Parliament should be. I am not here today to tell you that I have already seen these documents and made decisions about them. I am here to listen and I hope that we will have a chance to take your views on board. With me are Doreen Mellon, Colin Imrie and Jim Stephen, officials who have been working on this document and on other objective 2 matters. They will help me out with some of the substantial technical details that are in the plan and about which some committee members might want answers. I might need some assistance with those details.I recognise that, in particular, the agriculture and fisheries sections of the plan were circulated very late. Some members may not have seen those sections prior to their arrival here. Given the circumstances, I would be perfectly happy to accept comments from committee members on those sections, preferably in writing, by this weekend. That would give us time to look at them in advance of decisions next week. If members want to take time to consider things and to consult locally, I would be happy to accept comments later rather than to force a discussion today.Today is a very important occasion for the committee and for the Highlands and Islands. The success of the UK delegation in Berlin, led by the Prime Minister, in achieving these resources for the Highlands and Islands cannot be underestimated, but our success in implementing the resources and plans over the next seven years will be much more important. The purpose of the plan is to set out, in early terms, how we intend to spend the €300 million that were allocated, under the various structural funds, to the Highlands and Islands composite plan.The spending of that money should be put in some perspective. It is substantially less than the Scottish Executive currently provides to public bodies in the Highlands and Islands through grant aid to local authorities, to the enterprise companies and to the Crofters Commission, and through the common agricultural policy. It is not the most dominant piece of public expenditure for the Highlands and Islands over the next seven years. Therefore it should, to some extent, follow local priorities rather than set them. None the less, the money is substantial and is an important part of our ability to ensure that the Highlands and Islands are prosperous.I am also conscious that, because the plan must meet European regulations and work within the framework of European guidelines, it is not exactly—as David Chalmers might have said at a previous committee meeting—a reader-friendly document. That is to some extent inevitable, and I hope that, in discussions like this one, we can tease out some of the details. At the end of the process, either when we finally submit documents to the Commission or, more realistically, when the Commission has approved the plan, I hope to produce a reader-friendly version. People who live across the Highlands and Islands should know what the strategic plan is and have an opportunity to engage with it.It is important to stress that the document is enabling rather than prescriptive. It must stand the test of seven years, and it must be able to see the various structural fund spending through over that seven-year period. Given the pace of change in this region, as everywhere else in the world, it would be wrong to be too prescriptive at this stage about exactly where the money will be targeted and spent. Our overall objective must be absolutely clear, and we must see it in the context of a long-term plan. The criteria for objective 1 status enjoyed by other parts of the European Union were not met by the Highlands and Islands, but they are part of the reason for this grant aid to the region. The criteria are about low GDP, sparsity of population and disparity of social and economic success across the region. We must tackle those underlying problems if this set of structural funds is to be put to the best possible use.Our objective is to raise incomes and prosperity across the Highlands and Islands region. That means that over the next seven years we must ensure that the sort of growth and success that is currently being enjoyed by Inverness, for example, is shared by other communities in the region. That is the kind of strategic approach with which we are working, always taking into account the two important priorities set by the European Union for structural funds and for other Commission activities: sustainable economic development and equal opportunities.As the committee will have seen, the draft plan contains a vision for the Highlands and Islands with a local and national policy context. There is a section on the alignment of the plan with European Commission guidelines, which contain a long and detailed assessment of the area and its economic sectors. The plan also has a section on strategy and priorities. Although, as ever in such matters, financial allocation to priorities will cause most concern when we begin to agree the detail of the plan, I believe that strategy is just as important an issue as it sets the tone of our work. Priorities such as increasing business competitiveness, creating conditions for regional competitiveness, human resource development and support for the primary sector meet with the guidance that we have received for various structural funds. Those have been discussed in detail locally and are reflected in the financial allocations.Over the next week, Executive officials, my colleagues and I, as Minister for Finance, will want to study some of the financial allocations before we agree the final plan, which is why I welcome today's discussion. It has already been suggested that allocations for water sewage provision, for the environment, forestry and rural heritage line and for fishing and agricultural support could all be increased. However, we cannot increase all those allocations without decreasing allocations to other areas. I will certainly welcome the committee's comments about the overall strategy, the priorities that have been set out, the financial allocations and the presentation of the plan itself and I hope that, on that basis, we can have a fruitful discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 232470,
      "EditedText": "On the point about the committee's previous discussion, I welcome today's opportunity to find out the areas of the document where committee members feel that their comments have not been reflected. I am aware of the plan team's response to the committee's points and I get the impression that most of those points have been taken on board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 232471,
      "EditedText": "I will be sad if Mr McConnell will not take questions on the fishing section of the document, because I have come prepared to ask a lot of questions about that issue.However, let me start with another topic that might be a little off the subject. Does the document spell the end of the Highlands and Islands Convention? Many convention members thought that that was a useful arena in which to air problems in the Highlands, but we still do not know whether the convention will reconvene. Although that seems to be a separate issue, it is very relevant to the discussion as it fundamentally affects the Highlands and Islands.The document contains a description of the very firm auditing procedure that will obviously have to be in place. Furthermore, we have been informed about the powers of both the monitoring committee and the permanent programme executive. However, I have studied the document and have not been able to find out the composition of those two bodies. For example, although we have been told that there will be regional representatives on the monitoring committee—as one would expect—we have not been told about which regions they will they come from. Will they come from every region? The issue could become quite a hot potato."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 232473,
      "EditedText": "Where should I start? I am sorry that I was unable to come at half-past 1 for the informal meeting. Should I start at the beginning of the document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 232475,
      "EditedText": "Which bit of the document are we discussing now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 232476,
      "EditedText": "We are discussing the draft plan for the Highlands and Islands special programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 232480,
      "EditedText": "Although I spoke to Commissioner Barnier last week about our intentions on this issue, we will not include the final details until the review has been completed. We intend to have that review to ensure that the best possible arrangements are in place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5992,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 232481,
      "EditedText": "The kind of question that local people ask me as an MSP is whether they will be on those bodies.My second question is not really a question. The monitoring committee decides on the criteria and then the permanent programme executive decides on what projects to fund. Are there already many projects in the pipeline or are we now waiting for projects to be thought up? It is difficult to cost such projects because of all the complicated rules. What is the state of play? Are we really ready to go or will we have to pause as the various organisations prepare their projects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Doreen Mellon (Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 232485,
      "EditedText": "The ex post assessment of the current programme does not formally take place until the programme has ended. That means that there is a hiatus in timing, which makes it difficult to take on board the lessons that have been learned in the full objective 1 programme. We have incorporated lessons that have been learned from the mid-term evaluation exercise. However, the majority of those are not terribly exciting, as they are administrative exercises about how we can make the programme work more smoothly, rather than dealing with the most successful projects that have been implemented. Although the document mentions some projects from which lessons have been learned, it does not present an overall picture because of that technical hiatus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Doreen Mellon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 232487,
      "EditedText": "That is the assessment to which I was referring. Most of the lessons that emerged from that assessment concerned the administration of the programme and the prevention of hiatus. Those lessons have been incorporated into the current programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 5992,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 232488,
      "EditedText": "We have to get this in the proper sequence. We cannot start giving money to other enterprises if we do not know whether that kind of funding has worked properly before. We need to know about such things before we start dispersing funds again. How long will that hiatus be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Doreen Mellon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 232489,
      "EditedText": "As the ex post evaluation does not take place until the programme has formally ended, it will be 2001 before we can undertake the next evaluation. We can compare the programme's achievements with the targets that were set for it and whether it has produced a certain number of outcomes with the funds involved. The results of the previous programme are recorded in the document. That indicates which projects have hit their targets most easily and suggests how we can go about quantifying targets for the next programme, at least in the initial period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5992,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 232490,
      "EditedText": "Returning to Mrs Ewing's point, I want to add that one of the reasons that we want to review administrative arrangements is to ensure that committees and executive teams learn lessons from the past and can deal with new circumstances such as the reduction in resources and the strategic approach to the end of the programmes in six or seven years' time. We are keen for the review to take place to ensure that we have a responsive team and a decision-making structure that will be able to take on board both positive and negative lessons from the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 232491,
      "EditedText": "I welcome that review, Jack, as I have raised the issue in the committee before.I was pleased to hear that you will be flexible about spending, because the amount of money that will go to agriculture—€21 million out of a potential €300 million—seems inexplicably low when compared with the importance of agriculture to the entire area. Furthermore, the project selection criteria in the document seem unduly restrictive. Will you take those comments on board?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 232492,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to be prescriptive about decisions that will be made on different financial allocations and I am aware of similar comments by others about the resources that have been planned for agriculture. However, it is important to understand that the amount that you mentioned is the allocation for agricultural business development rather than specific support for agriculture. At the moment, £95 million a year is spent on agriculture in the Highlands and Islands through the common agricultural policy. This £21.4 million must be seen in that context. It is in addition to that and it is about agricultural business development rather than support for existing farm schemes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jim Stephen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 232496,
      "EditedText": "The diversification element has been drawn deliberately wide, so that it covers almost every diversification possibility from converting buildings for residential letting through to diversifying into some new agricultural crops. We drew this up with the members of the plan team and the industry representatives from the National Farmers Union, the Scottish Landowners Federation and the Scottish Crofters Union. We cast the net as wide as possible so that projects would not be ruled out because of over-prescriptive criteria."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 232497,
      "EditedText": "I accept that that is the intention, but think you should have another look at it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 232499,
      "EditedText": "I thank the minister for attending and thank him for twice replying to the letters that I wrote in the interim between the last reviews. Those replies were informative.I have two questions. First, a number of proposals in the plan mention money being used for the upgrading of the transportation system to improve competitiveness, the upgrading of sewage outlets and the like. Do you think that it is appropriate that European funds be used for upgrading sewage outlets, which is already a duty of the water authorities, and to improve the roads, which is probably in the Executive's transport budget. Is that an appropriate use of the funds? The funds are not as great an amount as people like to suggest in comparison to what the Executive already spends in the Highlands and Islands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 232501,
      "EditedText": "My second question is about a matter that was raised in the committee last time—venture capitalists. We were concerned, because it is the last funding of sustainability, that we introduce venture capital. It is in your wider priorities that we stimulate the private sector and new business. On page 96, it states that  private or one-off applicants will require individual applications and that:\"Such individual applications will require a public-sector sponsor.\"What public sector sponsors are envisaged? Is it the enterprise companies alone, do you have any other agencies in mind, or do you intend to create other agencies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Doreen Mellon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 232502,
      "EditedText": "This is part of the accountability exercise in relation to the funds, so that we can ensure auditing and control of the money as it is spent. On that particular scheme, it is more than likely that the sponsor would be Highlands and Islands Enterprise or the local enterprise companies, but others, such as local authorities, would not be banned from being public sector sponsors for that area, as that has been the case in other areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 232508,
      "EditedText": "I was pleased that emphasis was placed on creating conditions for regional competitiveness. I am concerned that the mechanism must be there to ensure that it is targeted within the region to ensure that disparities are addressed. The mechanism must address the obvious disparities within the region."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 232509,
      "EditedText": "One of the ways to influence that will be the criteria for project choice, against which applications for projects will be judged. That will arise out of this plan once it has been agreed. It will be used by the programme executive, to which Mrs Ewing referred earlier. The programme executive will not select projects as the monitoring committee does that, but it will analyse projects in comparison to the criteria and objectives set in the plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 232511,
      "EditedText": "Much as I would like to be able to see seven years into the future of the Executive and the Scottish Parliament—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 232512,
      "EditedText": "I think that Bruce Crawford is suggesting that in seven years you and your colleagues will still be in a position to influence expenditure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 232517,
      "EditedText": "It is interesting that the minister used the words \"freed up\". That confirms that, in the end, structural funds have no impact on the bottom-line position of the Scottish assigned budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 232518,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I should make myself absolutely clear. It is important that we place on record that in October 1999 we are not in a position to say what the Scottish assigned budget will be in 2002-03, never mind 2007. The decisions on the budget for 2002-03 will be made next year. Our current financial statement outlines provisional plans for next year and the year after that. As I have said before in this committee, assuming that current levels of resources and current assigned budget levels are maintained—because we cannot predict the outcome of general elections—the resources that have been allocated will remain part of our assigned budget. As less money is spent from European structural funds, surpluses will be freed up to be used for other purposes. However, at the moment we cannot say for certain what the level of the assigned budget will be—what it is now, what it is now plus inflation, or what it is now plus anything else that is allocated to Scotland's needs over the next seven years.We must not raise expectations that the funding that is currently available will be guaranteed for all time. We have a seven-year programme of €300 million, and we must make best use of that. We must try to create the economic conditions that will make that money unnecessary in seven years' time—to create a strong Highlands and Islands that can survive economically without it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 232520,
      "EditedText": "A similar question arises with respect to objective 2 funding. I propose that the minister take note that this committee would like to discuss that point in more detail, as it affects both Highlands and Islands objective 1 transitional funding and objective 2 funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 232521,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make one more point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 232524,
      "EditedText": "I have tried hard in the past to provide that information clearly, and I will do so again today.First, no part of the European Union with a GDP per head comparable to that of the Highlands and Islands of Scotland has received the same amount of money or a special programme. In that respect, Scotland has benefited more than any other EU state.Secondly, if the UK's plans for the objective 2 map—which we will come to in a minute—are approved by the European Commission, Scotland will receive an allocation that covers 40 per cent of its population. That is more than any member state of the European Union, apart from the four cohesion countries—Ireland, Spain, Greece and Portugal—which have benefited consistently from a higher level of structural funding than other states. Finland, with around 31 per cent, is the nation whose population coverage comes closest to ours. This is a very good deal for Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 232525,
      "EditedText": "My question relates to a point that I raised previously and that has not been picked up in this redrafting; if it has, I have missed it and am happy to be corrected.Priority 1 is to increase business competitiveness, to create employment and to increase incomes. On a previous occasion, I mentioned the value of the social economy and looking to the longer term. This is not about only the public and private sectors, and it is not enough simply to add not-for-profit organisations to your list. Co-operatives and similar developments may provide an opportunity to create sustainable community businesses. That model is understood in Europe and would be easy to transfer to the Highlands and Islands. However, the philosophy behind it is not evident anywhere in this document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 232531,
      "EditedText": "We have run out of time, but I would like to make a number of points for the record. Perhaps the minister could consider them after the meeting.In future, it would be helpful if annual reports and the minutes of the programme monitoring committees were to come before this committee for consideration.The document has significant weaknesses as regards consultation. The section on consultation has nothing in it; given the emphasis that the Commission has placed on consultation, that is a glaring weakness. I would like to know, too, whether the extensive external consultation that has taken place in other parts of Scotland, right down to community group level, has also taken place in the Highlands and Islands.There is a reference to social inclusion, but the document does not flesh out how that is consistent with the Executive's aspirations in that area. I would like that to be firmed up.I also want to know whether the plan has followed the checklist of chapter headings that was issued by the European Commission. There have been suggestions from a number of quarters that there are tensions between partners and Highlands and Islands Enterprise. At some point, I would like to know whether the Scottish Executive has been aware of those tensions and, if so, what has been done to resolve them.There are also some weaknesses in the draft as regards the national policy context. Might the Commission not be concerned by the relatively inward-looking nature of the plan, which fails to place the Highlands and Islands in a Scottish context? A number of members have spoken about integration and a more strategic view, but the document remains weak in that area. There is no recognition that this is not simply a continuation of previous programmes; in other words, that we should not just be pursuing more of the same. We should be looking at the Highlands and Islands as a transitional area with an enhanced financial allocation.I am not convinced that the plan complies with the sustainability criteria that have been set down, and I do not think that there is a proper relationship between economic analysis and the strategy for use of the funds. The document fails to justify in detail its proposed use of the funds. I have already mentioned the lack of policy coherence with the Scottish Executive's priorities.Some of what I am saying poses questions about the role of Highlands and Islands Enterprise as the key organisation in the area. I do not think that either the Scottish Executive or the programme management executive should take the main responsibility for any weaknesses in the draft plan. We slipped up—but it is part of our learning experience—because the committee should have got the plan team and Highlands and Islands Enterprise here, and we should have subjected them to a more rigorous analysis before we invited the minister. There are some problems with the suggestion of area targeting. I do not think that the document justifies area targeting enough, and there is little or no integration of rural development regulations or fishery development regulations. It has been a whirlwind, and I have not had time to flesh out some of that, although there are pointers that I did not want to be missed—that I wanted this committee to have the opportunity to consider—and I apologise for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 232538,
      "EditedText": "We have only 10 or 15 minutes left for this item. Unfortunately, we do not have time to tease that point out. The notion of the assigned budget and its relationship with European funding can be tabled for further discussion in the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 232534,
      "EditedText": "There are several points to be made about the detail of the announcement of the UK's submission to the Commission, and on the way ahead.First, I would like to make it absolutely clear that, despite the disappointment for some areas, and a trend that will continue in future years, of Scotland's relative economic prosperity resulting in a decrease in the overall population coverage and the allocation of objective 2 funding, we welcome the UK Government's proposals to the Commission. We were fully involved in their preparation. That was a good example of the Scottish Executive and the Scotland Office working together with the Department of Trade and Industry, and we hope that we have achieved a package that meets the twin objectives of working within guidelines that will be acceptable to the Commission and targeting as many needful communities as possible throughout Scotland.I recognise that there will be organisations working in communities throughout Scotland that will be disappointed by some of the exclusions from the map. However, this map is a significant improvement on the situation four months ago. The breakdown of areas to groups of council wards is of direct benefit for communities throughout Scotland. It has been achieved after much discussion and through a welcome persistence on which I congratulate Scottish politicians and officials. It was vital that we focused as much as possible of the declining resources on areas of need. Having said that, we have still managed to achieve—in spite of the fact that most of the recognised regions of England have a significantly lower gross domestic product than Scotland—more than 40 per cent population coverage on the map. That is good news for us. If the Highlands and Islands coverage is included, it is well beyond the EU-wide average and the average of the other member states, apart from the four cohesion nation states.European structural funds—even objective 2—must be seen in context; they are only a small part of Government and local government public expenditure in Scotland. However, they are an important part; they are well used and much  needed by the communities that are affected. Although the total for the main fund will be just under €600 million over the next seven years, and the transition fund will be just more than €150 million, that is still a substantial amount of money that must be spent to the greatest effect. I am keen for us not only to target the main fund as effectively as possible within the guidelines, but to target the transition money to help particularly those individual communities that, because of isolation, statistics, or their location in relation to other areas, have been missed out on this map. I will take a personal interest in ensuring that that happens. We must be flexible in our approach to the allocation of resources. We must consider how the use of objective 2 money can be linked to the new objective 3 funding—which will cover the whole of Scotland, although the objective 2 areas will have priority—and we must continue to meet criteria as we go along.This was not an easy map to put together. It has not been an easy set of proposals to put together. It has not yet been agreed by the Commission, and may yet be rejected—which would leave more communities in Scotland disappointed. However, we have done our best to meet the industrial, urban, fisheries, and rural criteria, and we have done so in substantial enough groups of wards to make the case for a substantial community of interest, to meet relative needs. We hope, therefore, that we can proceed to implement both the main fund and the transition fund in a way that will see us through the next seven years. After that, I think that we will find ourselves in a new, enlarged European Union, in which there are communities, particularly far to the east, that will need this money more than we do in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 232535,
      "EditedText": "Those who are involved are to be congratulated on some of the things that have been achieved—not least of which are the ward-based allocations, which have been important in Scotland. Overall, there is a positive story to be told. There will undoubtedly be some questions about the areas that have been identified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 232537,
      "EditedText": "I shall try again to explain this. Every time I try to explain it, I think that I am getting somewhere, but at other times I have my doubts.We now have devolution and an assigned budget. That assigned budget includes the provision for European Union structural funds that existed in the former Scottish Office budget. It amounts to something between £160 million and £170 million for each of the next three years. That money is in the budget. As the population coverage and the eligibility of Scotland for funds decrease—as Scotland is relatively more economically prosperous than it was in comparison with other parts of the European Union and other parts of Britain—those funds are released for us to choose how we spend them. It is hard to find an easier way to describe that situation. If, for example, by year 7 of this programme we were spending, across the Highlands and Islands objective 2 and objective 3 programmes, say, £130 million—if we had the same level of assigned budget and if that budget line had not changed, although the Parliament could vote to change it by vetoing the Executive's budget and the Executive could propose changes to its own budget over the next seven years—that would mean that £40 million could be spent flexibly, either on economic development programmes throughout Scotland or on other things. A point that I have been trying to make for three months is that one of the benefits of devolution is the way in which the assigned budget has been set, which enables us to make our own decisions about how we spend it. That is a good thing, and I hope that all parties will collectively welcome it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 232543,
      "EditedText": "It is not just that area. The last time you came to this committee, you stressed the importance of trying to address the areas of greatest need in terms of objective 2 funding, and to do so on a ward basis so that that funding would be focused. In your statement to the press, the firm impression was given that there would be a useful complement of objective 2 funding and the assisted areas map.It is my assertion—based on the experience of a number of areas in Stirling, Falkirk, Dundee, Edinburgh, Argyll and Bute—that that has not happened. Some areas that are severely disadvantaged have not been covered in this map of objective 2 funding. I shall give some examples of the type of deprivation that we are discussing. Dudhope, in Dundee, has an unemployment rate of 17.7 per cent; Craigmillar, in Edinburgh, has an unemployment rate of 15.8 per cent; Gowanhill, in Stirling, has an unemployment rate of 14.7 per cent. If one were to take the worst areas for unemployment, within the 10 per cent range, the result would be a population coverage of 62,000.There are 16 wards that have not been covered. There must be either some sort of tinkering with the objective 2 settlement that we have or some other mechanism—whether the gap funding that we have been talking about or targeting of the transitional moneys—whereby those areas within that 10 per cent range can be dealt with in the same way as the objective 2 areas. They would then be able to focus in on the work that is being done and could capitalise on that to achieve sustainability, which is one of the principles of the objective 2 and European structural funds. Objective 3 funding will not miss those areas, as they are not covered by objective 2 funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 232544,
      "EditedText": "We should leave the answer on objective 3 funding until another time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 232551,
      "EditedText": "We are running out of time, Sylvia."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 232553,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to cut off the minister's reply, but I do not want this discussion to start focusing down on particular areas: it is principles that are important to this discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 232554,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to address Cathy Peattie's points if she writes to me.I am conscious of the fact that because we had to meet the guidelines and the criteria, and because we had to negotiate down to groups of wards that fitted together in a way that made a map justifiable, there are parts of Scotland that appear on the face of it to be among the most needy that are not included on the map. It is difficult to include them, but it is not impossible for us to target the transition funding to those areas. I would appreciate it if members wrote to me about those areas and they can be sure that we will do whatever we can to try and improve the economic prosperity of those areas, which is the whole purpose of the funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 232558,
      "EditedText": "With regard to decision making, ultimately it all comes down to trying to make a balanced judgment. We had to create significant areas: that was in the guidelines. We managed to get those significant areas down from the level that they were at and spread the opportunities across more of Scotland. That still leaves some communities and areas adjacent to significant areas apparently losing out, but that just shows—if I may go back to my first point—the wisdom of the Government in the negotiations in Berlin in arguing for the transition funding.Clearly, there was always going to be this problem, regardless of what the map looked like. The case for transition funding is absolutely crystal clear. We are very lucky that the UK Government managed to negotiate for it and our job is to make the best use of it, while keeping an open ear and mind to any possible changes that might still arise. However, as I said, I do not want to raise expectations because this outcome has been the product of three months of negotiations and it is already at the margins of what the Commission is prepared to agree to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 232559,
      "EditedText": "On the benefits of devolution, as you know, Jack, I have been sceptical in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 232564,
      "EditedText": "I am conscious of the fact that over the next seven years there could be fluctuations in the euro and that that would affect the value of what we have been allocated. It is hard to make predictions. Clearly, on an annual basis we will have to take fluctuations into account with regard to the number of project applications that can be put forward.The money does come in instalments. It does not come at the beginning of the seven-year period, which we should be thankful for in some ways, because I suspect that over the coming seven years the value of the euro will increase rather than decrease, regardless of activities that might be occurring in another place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 232568,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of things that we have not been able to address and that I want to flag up, and it would help if we could have a written reply. The first concerns administration. We have programmes with reduced funding. Can the current number of executives be supported with the current level of administrative costs? There is also a need for an exit strategy with regard to objective 2 funding and it would be useful to see where that is going. There is a need for the plan teams to be fully representative of the areas covered. In one or two geographic areas—for example, Glasgow—I believe that that is not always the case. On the issue of urban coverage, was urban coverage based on the use of a comparable index of indicators, because reference was made to using comparable indicators between Scotland, England and Wales? What are the indicators? We can have a written reply to those questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5992,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5992,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 232569,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, at all times members have the opportunity to write to me with further questions and comments. I would be happy to receive both and I will try to respond to them more promptly than we were able to do at times during the summer, when we were in the middle of some difficult negotiations on objective 2.I thank the committee for the opportunity to be here. I was going to comment briefly on the programme management executives and the monitoring committees. In Brussels last Tuesday I launched a review of both. It is my intention to include elected members of local authorities, trade unionists and business representatives on the replacements for the old monitoring committees. It is also our intention to streamline, learn lessons and produce effective programme management executives to cover the new programmes for the next period. It is also our intention, as ever, to ensure that this committee has the opportunity to comment on those plans and reviews as the weeks go by between now and the end of the year, when we must have everything in place. I give you that guarantee. We will submit a paper to the committee for its consideration as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 232578,
      "EditedText": "So they have not been circulated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 232579,
      "EditedText": "No. I was going to read them out. There is only one comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 232581,
      "EditedText": "That is a separate document. We need to go through that committee's comments first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 232584,
      "EditedText": "I agree that there should be no further action, but the dates that are involved are worrying. The deposit date in the UK Parliament was 18 August and we are being asked to reply by 22 October. I know that we have nothing further to say, but there has been a heck of a long lead-in time for this document to arrive here. If the same process were to be used in future, there would be difficulties if a matter arose on which we had something to say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 232589,
      "EditedText": "The text says:\"A reading of the EM does not appear to highlight\"the point about the Data Protection Act 1998. Does that mean that the point is not relevant?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 232591,
      "EditedText": "For document 335 (EC Ref No 10553/99), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 337 (EC Ref No 10672/99), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting and a briefing paper will be produced on the link between the European investment fund and the European Investment Bank."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 232593,
      "EditedText": "We will consider that matter in the briefing paper.For document 340 (EC Ref No 10704/99, SEC(99)66 final), we are advised to consider the matter at the next meeting. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 232598,
      "EditedText": "This came out of a report when I was chairman of the committee, following Heysel. The recommendation of the committee of the Parliament at that time was that there would be a constant review of the situation. I would have thought that this was relevant in a football-crazy country such as Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 232600,
      "EditedText": "I would not mind seeing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 232601,
      "EditedText": "I will collect the complete report and give it to members for their interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 232602,
      "EditedText": "Is there any similar report on football hooliganism within member states?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 232604,
      "EditedText": "I do not know about other members, but I receive a lot of letters from vets about this matter. They are upset about restrictions on their ability to prescribe. Perhaps it was when I was a member of the European Parliament that I got those letters, but it was a big issue for vets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 232606,
      "EditedText": "This is a specific document relating to veterinary medicinal products and analytical, pharmatoxicological and clinical standards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 232608,
      "EditedText": "Yes.For document 360 (EC Ref No 10900/99, PESC 278 COASI 16), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 361 (EC Ref No 10907/99, COM(99)408 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 362 (EC Ref No 10948/99 COM(99)303 final), we are advised to take no further action, but to send it to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee for their interest. That is agreed. For document 363 (EC Ref No 10956/99 COM(99)373 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 364 (EC Ref No 10971/99, COM(99)365 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed. For document 365 (EC Ref No 11050/99, COM(99)412 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 366 (EC Ref No 11076/99, COM(99)351 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 367 (EC Ref No 10999/99, SEC(99)1280 final), we are advised to take no further action. That is agreed.For document 368 (EC Ref No 11157/99, COPEN 39), we are advised to take no further action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 232610,
      "EditedText": "That is it finished."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 232614,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I intended to come back to that. We should give both those documents to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee to let it see them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 232620,
      "EditedText": "Any step forward would be a step forward. The point that Dr Ewing makes is correct, in that when we go—and I hope that we do—to a regional structure of fisheries management, the committee structure should be able to adapt to that change. The two points are that we do not want matters to be set in tablets of stone, and that the structure should be able to adapt when changes happen, as they will in 2002."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 232623,
      "EditedText": "So what comments do we want to include, because presumably we will be providing a view on behalf of the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 232625,
      "EditedText": "As Scotland has the second fleet in Europe we must ensure that it has some form of representation on the advisory committee, no matter who else does not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 232627,
      "EditedText": "We will draft a letter in my name, and on behalf of the committee, to the Executive and to Westminster, which makes those points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 232628,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 232630,
      "EditedText": "Document 301 was referred to the Health and Community Care Committee, if you recall. That committee held a special meeting last Thursday. Ben Wallace, who is on both committees, attended the Health and Community Care Committee meeting to put forward some of the views of the European Committee. I understand that two officials from the food safety unit of the Scottish Executive attended that meeting to address some of the concerns of committee members.The clerk has sent me a short note on the meeting which she has asked me to draw to your attention. If you will indulge me, I will read out the main paragraph:\"The Health and Community Care Committee voiced concern that if additive E 650 is added to the coating of chewing gum used as a nicotine substitute, more than the safe dosage may be ingested given that a higher than normal number of pieces may be chewed during a day. They asked that, if this is the case, it is taken into account in any evaluation and that the Scientific Committee for Food monitor the position.\"That was the main point that they wished to bring to our attention and we are asked to incorporate it with the views of this committee. At a previous meeting we had recommended no further action; we were going to send a letter from our convener to the Executive and to the Westminster committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 232635,
      "EditedText": "Can we agree to forward a response which says that we received comments from the Health and Community Care Committee, making it quite clear that those are their deliberations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 232636,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that this is not something that is of interest to everyone, but there are a number of people who are very concerned about additives, particularly in relation to allergies. While we might make light of this particular example, we should perhaps comment that the key issue here is about people's choice, which relates to adequate labelling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 232637,
      "EditedText": "In the discussions between the clerks, one of the strong messages from our committee was that the health committee's focus should be on this document. A number of serious concerns on food additives were raised, which the Health and Community Care Committee has taken on board for examination at a later date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 232639,
      "EditedText": "Our response will be specifically in relation to this document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 232642,
      "EditedText": "If there were anything legislative that we had to go through in detail, the Parliamentary Bureau would presumably make a recommendation to the Parliament about which should be the lead committee. At present we are being asked to comment on a particular document. The general points that have been raised will be looked at by the health committee, if necessary. I think, however, that it will help if we say in our response that those comments were from the health committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 232643,
      "EditedText": "My apologies, I must leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5993,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 5993,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 232647,
      "EditedText": "I have spoken to our official report colleagues about the matter. Rather than trying to do that as we are going through a document, I have agreed that I shall go back to the Official Report and insert the EC reference so that readers outside the Parliament can know what specific European document the committee was talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5994,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ID": 5994,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 232649,
      "EditedText": "I advise members that, over the past couple of weeks, we have sent out a fairly substantial mailshot to more than 200 organisations throughout Scotland. Thankfully, that was not my responsibility but that of my colleague David Simpson, who has given sterling service. We are still welcoming new contacts to which we can send the terms of reference, and we have received some comments back. The deadline is 4 November. We will prepare a summary document for the committee, on whom we sent that mailshot to, who has replied, and what kind of issues have been raised during that process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ID": 5995,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 232651,
      "EditedText": "Scotland week was a success. Several members made their way to Brussels under their own steam, and we were impressed not only by the effect that Scotland week had, but by the general level of interest in it that was shown within the Commission and the European Parliament, and by other regions. It would be fair to say that it has done Scotland and its Parliament a power of good, as far as our profile in Europe is concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5995,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 232652,
      "EditedText": "I was very impressed by the week and the activities that were going on, as well as by the level of interest that was shown. It might be useful for us to ask the Executive for the  feedback that it has received on the week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ID": 5995,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 232653,
      "EditedText": "Good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ID": 5995,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 232655,
      "EditedText": "I agree to write to the Executive, on behalf of the committee, to congratulate it on the initiative and to ask for a report of the week's activities and the conclusions that were reached."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5995,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 232656,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to have to mention something not so pleasant, but Mr McConnell has apologised to me for forgetting to put me on the list. By the time he said that he wanted me to go, at the very last minute, I had already accepted an invitation to be the guest of honour at a fund-raising dinner in London. I felt a wee bit sad that I was not in Brussels. After 24 years as a member of the European Parliament—and I am the only member of this committee who was a member of the European Parliament—I do not know how I came to be overlooked. I would have been quite happy to pay my own way, but I was just not included. I would like that to be noted in the minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5995,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 232661,
      "EditedText": "Winnie has alluded to the co-operative movement in the Basque country. I was disappointed that I was unable to attend the meeting, because I have a special interest in co-operation. I want to make a general point about the short notice that we receive about such meetings. I appreciate that that is sometimes outwith the control of the clerks, but it is difficult to break commitments that we have already made in order to meet people at short notice. I would appreciate it if we could do something about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5995,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ID": 5995,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 232662,
      "EditedText": "Much of this is outwith our control, as some delegations make their own arrangements. For example, I had two days' notice of the meeting with the representative from Bavaria. That is unfortunate.Before I come on to the East of Scotland European Consortium conference, I should mention that we have received another expression of interest. The foreign affairs adviser to the Dutch Prime Minister will be at parliamentary headquarters on 27 October, between 11 am and 12.30. He is interested in meeting available MSPs. Could you check your diaries? Stephen will circulate this information to other members of the committee. I do not know whether the adviser wants to talk only about the European dimension, or whether he is interested in other subject areas. However, I suspect that we will receive more such requests.On the same day, from half-past 1 to half-past 3, a representative of the Spanish Government—the junior minister for regional government—and the President of the Valencian regional government would like to meet some MSPs. That will be on Wednesday 27 October. Again, we will circulate that information to committee members.On 9 November, representatives from the regional government of Saxony-Anhalt will be available to address the committee on regional development and on how they deal with European affairs. We are certainly broadening our horizons.Finally, the East of Scotland European Consortium conference will take place on 26 November. I have received an invitation to participate, but the consortium has also invited up to four other members of the committee to do so. We are looking for available and interested committee members to take part. Does the committee want to leave the matter until the next meeting? Sylvia has volunteered straight away. Will other committee members consider the remaining three places? Perhaps Stephen could drop members a note with additional information as a separate item for next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 19 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1334
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-19T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5996,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 5996,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 232667,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed to have the next meeting on 9 November? That is agreed. We will notify the members who have left early so that they do not turn up on 26 October. Thanks for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1966299+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 284651,
      "EditedText": "Often the industry has asked for the additives, or extensions of additives approved for other uses, to be approved. In this case, our assessment is that as industry has made the request, the impact on it is neutral. That is why there is no impact assessment form. The consultation exercise allows us to check the assessment; the industry can come back to us if it is wrong.A copy of the consultation responses is available in the library; it excludes responses in which commercial confidentiality is asked for by the industry or individual respondent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
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      "ID": 1686
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 284652,
      "EditedText": "However, the consultation exercise is continuing and we are part of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 284656,
      "EditedText": "Although the consultation exercise will not end until 26 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284657",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 284657,
      "EditedText": "The European consultation exercise will not finish until 26 October, so the Parliament can comment. We had to give our comments to the European Committee before 19 October because that is when it will look at the matter. That is why we are meeting prior to that date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284659",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
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    "Time": {
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 284659,
      "EditedText": "We are part of the consultation exercise. We can make sure that when the responses are finalised, the committee is sent a copy or is informed in some other way of the responses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
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    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 284660,
      "EditedText": "E 445 is glycerol esters of wood rosin. It is a preservative and already permitted for use as a surface treatment of citrus fruits and as a non-alcoholic, flavoured cloudy drinks additive—it gives the cloudiness in cloudy lemonade."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 284664,
      "EditedText": "I think that beer is seen as being more natural if it is cloudy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 284668,
      "EditedText": "That additive is already approved. The company is asking for its use to be extended into another category of foodstuffs. E 650, zinc acetate, gives a bitterness to chewing gum. It has been considered in great detail by the scientific committee on food, which believes that it should be allowed as a flavour enhancer in chewing gum in concentrations of up to 1 mg, which is equivalent to 0.3 mg of zinc for every 1,000 mg of chewing gum. That level was acceptable because of the non-toxicity of zinc at the expected exposure level. The committee's assessment is that zinc is an essential trace element for humans. We need zinc to live. The average daily intake of zinc from food is between 5 mg and 22 mg. It was felt that an equivalent value of 0.3 mg of zinc in chewing gum would be an acceptable level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 284669,
      "EditedText": "Acceptable for whom? Some people are constant chewers of gum; others might have only one wad of gum a week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 284675,
      "EditedText": "If someone substitutes a piece of Nicorette gum for a cigarette, they might well use more than 10 pieces a day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 284683,
      "EditedText": "At the end of the meeting I will go over the various points that have been raised. We can then pass them to the European Committee. I call Ben Wallace, who I hope will mention his phone-round to industry. It is good that he has done that research."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 284685,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 284689,
      "EditedText": "It is. Three UK experts are on the committee: Dr Susan Barlow, who is a consultant to the Medical Research Council; Dr Bevan Moseley from Reading food research association; and Professor Ronald Walker from the University of Surrey School of Biological Sciences. Dr Albert Flynn, who is a senior lecturer from the Faculty of Food Science and Technology at University College, Cork, Ireland is also involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 284692,
      "EditedText": "Have those committees' responses come back?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 284693,
      "EditedText": "We have not yet received their responses to the proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 284695,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that the proposals will go from here to the European Committee, which might have other comments to append to our view. Our comments will go forward to the scientific committee and others to be examined and taken on board. I did not expect the European Committee to be able to answer the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 284704,
      "EditedText": "I want to finish an earlier point. I would like to hear health bodies' views of the consultations, if we are allowed to have them. That is when we can form opinions. For example, I cannot form an opinion on propane but I can form an opinion that the health committees have been correctly consulted and their views taken into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 284705,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty is that decisions on proposals from the Commission move very rapidly. There is a meeting on Monday next week at which the Commission will further consider the proposals. Within the procedures, we have to try—at the earliest possible stage—to get consultations out and take a view. We have to brief our negotiating team in Brussels to communicate, at the earliest point, any views that have been expressed. When we have a three-month, or an eight-week, consultation period, it is very difficult to keep in phase with the negotiations in Brussels. There are meetings on Monday and the points that members have raised today will be passed on to the UK negotiators who are going to Brussels. They will make the points for us on Monday.The other difficulty that we have in Brussels is that voting on this is by qualified majority voting, so we have to ensure that we have support from other member states if we want to change anything in the proposal. We have to aim at a moving target; that is what we are trying to do today. Members' views are very welcome and if members want to return to look at the consultation documents, we will provide those. However, I am afraid that things will have moved on by that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 284709,
      "EditedText": "No. The application is already approved. E 445 is already approved, within the UK regulations, for surface treatment of citrus fruits to a level of 50 mg/kg."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 284711,
      "EditedText": "Yes. E 445 is also allowed in non-alcoholic, flavoured, cloudy drinks, to a level of 100 mg/litre. One spirit company has said that it wants to use E 445 to make some of its alcoholic drinks cloudy. That is the new bit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 284713,
      "EditedText": "The point for the committee, Dorothy, is public health. I prefer clear drinks, but it is not for me to impose on the people of Scotland that they should all drink clear drinks because I like it that way. If we were to find a public health reason why people should drink only clear drinks, we would be beholden to do something about that. It is not up to us to comment on fads.As we heard, some of this has come about as a result of requests from the industry—which obviously means jobs and so on—but the public health angle is our remit. Beyond that, we have no remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284717",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 284717,
      "EditedText": "We are not eating under-arm deodorants, though—at least, I hope not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 284720,
      "EditedText": "One would have breathed it in or absorbed it. As in the case of the under-arm deodorant, it disperses into the atmosphere. That is why CFCs were a problem as propellant gases. What is seen on the pan is the oil that was propelled on to the pan, not the propellant. Gases such as carbon dioxide, nitrogen and modified gases are already used to package foods and give them a nice healthy glow on the shelf. If food is packed using cling-film, it soon discolours. Meat goes very dark and chicken goes a bit greenish round the corners, and it soon looks unattractive. The gases that are put in the packaging protect the food and stop the organisms that cause the discolouring from having an effect. Hydrogen is just another of those modified atmosphere packaging gases that the industry would like to use so that the food that we eat is safer and, without the discolouring, more attractive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 284723,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that the packaging prolongs the life of the food only in so far as it looks all right, rather than going slightly greenish or off looking, but it is not necessarily protecting it because it is still decomposing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 284725,
      "EditedText": "Is this a kind of cling-film, or is it something more?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 284726,
      "EditedText": "It is not cling-film; it is a special film that goes over trays of food. The film can be breathable—it can allow gases to seep out of or into packaging over time. Food technologists have to work on this to ensure that food is both safe and aesthetically pleasing while it is on the supermarket shelf."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 284727,
      "EditedText": "There has been controversy about that type of wrapping as well—about materials being absorbed by the food."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marion Baldry (Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 284728,
      "EditedText": "There are separate regulations that cover materials and articles in contact with food."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 284729,
      "EditedText": "If we ask questions that stray over the boundaries of this matter, please tell us.The one E number that you did not discuss was E 1520."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 284744,
      "EditedText": "I wish to record that most of this appears to be driven by the manufacturers, rather than the people who are employed to care for the health of Europe. The proposal seems to extend considerably the injection of artificial substances, leading to more force feeding of substances whose contents seem quite alarming. I will call them industrial substances. Should we really approve of that approach? Can we add that comment as a rider?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 284746,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the process seems to be led by industry. I am not a purist about food, but this is an overwhelming encroachment of artificial items. I respectfully suggest that we add that we ca' canny on that, or that we recommend that pressures from the food industry are kept to a minimum. The poor public has already been force fed genetically modified foods without knowing that that was happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 284748,
      "EditedText": "The points that Dorothy raises about public concern about the food that we eat are for another day. Our discussions of this agenda item have reached a conclusion—or have they?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 284751,
      "EditedText": "Does it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marion Baldry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 284754,
      "EditedText": "Not yet, as far as I am aware. It is still just a Commission document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marion Baldry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 284756,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 284757,
      "EditedText": "I have learnt today that there is a committee on toxicity. Food safety and pharmaceuticals will be a major subject for this committee. Could we be given a briefing document setting out the process for the introduction of pharmaceuticals, additives or chemicals? It is quite clear that this proposal has been through plenty of Government committees before reaching us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 284759,
      "EditedText": "I will raise that at the European Committee as well. All that we are given there is the text of the directive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 284765,
      "EditedText": "Would it be possible to include some discussion of colourants in the paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 284767,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 14:56."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Thursday 14 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 7540,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7540,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 284647,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to this meeting of the Health and Community Care Committee. There is one item on the agenda; I thank the committee members who have managed to attend during the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 284654,
      "EditedText": "The end date of the consultation exercise is 26 October. I was led to believe that we had to come to a conclusion before that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 284655,
      "EditedText": "We have to pass our views to the European Committee, because it is putting forward the Parliament's point of view. It meets on 19 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 284650,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Stephen. We are talking about food additives, and there is general concern about the public health implications of the food that we eat. Questions that were tabled before the meeting, which can be found on the second-last page of the committee papers, are as follows. Why is there no impact assessment form for the food industry in Scotland? Could the committee have a copy of the responses to the consultation exercise? Has there been research on E 445, E 650 and E 1520? Before members ask general questions, perhaps Mr Rooke will comment on the three questions that have been tabled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 284658,
      "EditedText": "In that case, we cannot have a copy of the responses because the consultation is not finished yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 284661,
      "EditedText": "I was trying to think of a cloudy drink—thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 284662,
      "EditedText": "In this case, a German spirit drinks company has asked for that to be included in a proposal so that it can make some of its alcoholic drinks cloudy—in addition to cloudy lemonade, we can have cloudy alcoholic drinks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 284666,
      "EditedText": "My drinking habits must be old-fashioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 284670,
      "EditedText": "Assessments are based on a worst case scenario. A population reference intake and a lowest threshold intake are taken into account. Age group and the lactation of pregnant women are considered, too. The assessment includes all the factors that the committee has raised.The committee has examined the worst case scenario, which is about 10 g of chewing gum centres—equivalent to about 10 strips—and has  worked out the uptake of zinc into the body from that amount of gum. The safety assessment is pretty comprehensive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 284671,
      "EditedText": "Would it be fair to say that such an analysis would have been done on any food additives that the committee might come across?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 284672,
      "EditedText": "That is right. The scientific committee on food examines the most exposed group of the population."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 284673,
      "EditedText": "When you say chewing gum, are you talking about Nicorette chewing gum, which might be used by someone who was trying to give up cigarettes? I think that more than 10 pieces of that gum might be chewed in one day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 284677,
      "EditedText": "That would have been because of the nicotine content."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 284679,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy makes a relevant point. We can suggest to the European Committee that that point be clarified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 284681,
      "EditedText": "We will bring it to the committee's attention that it is our belief, according to anecdotal evidence, that there has been an increase in the use of chewing gum and that we therefore believe that the maximum levels must be kept under review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 284687,
      "EditedText": "It is a European committee. The scientific committee on food was originally established by the European Community in 1974 and comprises experts from all member states."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284694",
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      "ID": 1686
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 284694,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned by the comment made earlier about our being part of the consultation exercise. As we are not experts on toxicology, food additives or the food industry, our role must be to examine the procedures that have been gone through to decide whether such additives are healthy. As Kay said, we are not here to give our views, but we should go back to the scientific committee to ask whether the additive goes into tobacco chewing gum. I am on the European Committee and the question will arrive on my desk in a few weeks. What will I do with it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 284696,
      "EditedText": "When the health committee's response is sent to the European Committee, could the scientific committee come back on the chewing gum question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 284697,
      "EditedText": "Prior to next week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 284698,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Prior to the matter coming before the European Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 284699,
      "EditedText": "The proposal that was considered by the scientific committee on food related only to sugar-free chewing gum. If there is a concern about Nicorette, we will pass it on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 284700,
      "EditedText": "To the scientific committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 284706,
      "EditedText": "May I ask a bit more on citrus fruits? I apologise for being late—I was at another meeting earlier. The explanatory memorandum states that the proposal aims to\"permit some already authorised food additives (sodium alginate, glycerol esters of wood rosin, zinc acetate) to be used in certain new applications\".First, what are those new applications? The treatment of citrus fruits was mentioned. Secondly, does this relate to the process commonly known as waxing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 284708,
      "EditedText": "The waxing process is already quite controversial. The proposal says\"to be used in certain new applications\".Is it specified which fruits are affected, or how far the proposal might extend?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 284712,
      "EditedText": "First, I wonder why we should go along with yet another fashion. Alcoholic drinks, such as lager, used to be praised for their clarity. Manufacturers are now making drinks cloudy. Should we be inflicting this on the population of Scotland purely to go along with fashion in the drinks trade?Secondly, the waxing of fruit is already controversial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 284715,
      "EditedText": "I understand that butane and isobutane are used in vacuum packing. Is that the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 284718,
      "EditedText": "We would not be eating the propellants in this case either; they disperse into the atmosphere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 284722,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The Committee on Toxicity of Chemicals in Food, Consumer Products and the Environment and the European committees have considered the safety aspect of the products in question and have found that, at the levels used, they are safe for that purpose. That is why they have been previously approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 284730,
      "EditedText": "That is propylene glycol. This proposal is not an addition, but gives this additive an E number. It is approved for use and has been through the safety assessment. The Danish Government has asked that it be given an E number—that is the only effect of the proposal. On the packaging, it will become E 1520 rather than propan-1, 2-diol (propylene glycol)—that will make labelling a bit easier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 284731,
      "EditedText": "It will not have its Sunday name.The fax that we have from the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food says that E 1520 is not an additive that is permitted in the European Community, but you said that it has been approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 284732,
      "EditedText": "The situation is complicated. The Commission said that propylene glycol did not meet the definition of an additive and, therefore, is not an additive. The Danes think that it is an additive and that it should be given an E number and put in the additives list. The only thing that we can think of is that the Commission has accepted the Danish Government's representation that it is an additive and should be put into the list to allow manufacturers to use it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 284734,
      "EditedText": "The directives and regulations are extremely complicated. The list is positive: if something does not appear in the right form on the right page, it cannot be used, even though it has been evaluated and may be legally used for another purpose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 284740,
      "EditedText": "It is also a positive affirmation that the documentation has not got lost in the post and that the organisations have given some thought to the matter, rather than that they have not looked at it at all. It is useful for us to know that. Are members happy with that? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 284741,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we note the proposal and that we make the points that members have raised on chewing gum. There is certainly anecdotal evidence—probably more than that, as Dorothy mentioned that research has been undertaken by chewing gum companies—on the increased use of chewing gum generally and in particular by people who are attempting to give up smoking. I welcome those attempts. We want to ensure that the scientific committee on food takes into account the possibility of an increased use of chewing gum. We also want to ensure that the scientific committee on food monitors that situation. We raised the question, which has become a point that we wish to make, whether the additives that are put into chewing gum are also put into Nicorette—into the type of chewing gum used to wean people off their nicotine addiction. While we want our negotiators to take that issue with them into next week's negotiations, we may not get an answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 284743,
      "EditedText": "Rather than giving the negotiators our points, it would be useful if a copy of the Official Report of today's meeting could be given to them by Monday, although I am not sure if that is possible. The comments that we have made during this general discussion would be useful to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 284749,
      "EditedText": "When is this directive due to come before the European Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 284753,
      "EditedText": "Has a date been set for it to be discussed in plenary session?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 284758,
      "EditedText": "I accept Ben's suggestion. Our papers informed us of the dates on which particular committees have considered the proposal. We were not informed whether they discussed it in depth and been able to question experts, or whether they had simply nodded it through. One of our concerns when this directive was first put to us last week was that everyone who had considered it prior to us might have approved it on the assumption that it was okay. We would like some indication of what kind of scrutiny is possible and is most likely to have been carried out by the time measures of this sort come before us. That will give us a better idea of whether we need to go back to stage one, or whether we can assume that stages one, two and three have already been completed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 284760,
      "EditedText": "Sometimes I think that there have probably been a number of useful discussions before a document hits our desks. It would be useful for us to know whether that is the case. It would also minimise the time that we need to spend discussing such documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 284761,
      "EditedText": "There are about 14 expert committees considering various aspects of food. The committee may wish to set aside some time at another meeting for us to give members a background briefing on how food safety works in Great Britain and Europe—across a wider front than just additives—and on how the expert committees interrelate. Would that be helpful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 284763,
      "EditedText": "The Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and the Rural Affairs Committee would be interested in that, so maybe a paper should be written rather than a presentation given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 284764,
      "EditedText": "Not only a paper should be produced; an informal briefing aimed at this committee should be held which would be open to MSPs who have a particular interest in the subject but who are not on this committee. There are other aspects that should be examined. We could take that forward.Food safety and public health issues have dominated our previous agendas. We are trying to move forward into other substantive work. It will, however, be an area that continues to be of interest to this committee and so it would be useful to act on suggestions such as that made by Mr Rooke."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 284766,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful if members e-mailed me with any other suggestions about the components of an informal briefing day.I thank members for attending during the recess—I am pleased to get in a reference to that. Thanks also to Stephen and Marion for coming along today and sharing their knowledge with us. It looks as if we will see you again in the not too distant future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Thursday 14 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 7540,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7540,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 284646,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:05"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 284648,
      "EditedText": "From the Scottish Executive, we welcome Stephen Rooke, who is head of the food safety unit, and Marion Baldry, who is a policy analyst on food safety. They will give us a talk about a directive from the European Parliament on food additives. After the talk, committee members will be able to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 284653,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The views of the committee are part of the exercise, and we will feed them into the negotiations at Brussels."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke (Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 284649,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. As this is the first opportunity that we have had to explain what is going on with additives and directives, we thought that it might be helpful to give members a couple of minutes of background information on the processes and their history.It all goes back a long time—to 1988, when the framework directive 89/107/EEC on additives was adopted. That framework directive provides for the adoption of specific directives to harmonise the use of different categories of additives in foodstuffs. There are three specific directives: one covering miscellaneous additives in food, one covering colours and one covering sweeteners. They were adopted in 1994 and 1995. Since then, all mechanisms and instruments relating to the use of additives in food have been the same in all member states. That is part of the single market—such a structure guarantees the free movement of foodstuffs, ensures a high level of consumer protection, and offers the consumer greater freedom of choice between different foodstuffs.Directive 95/2/EC on food additives other than colours and sweeteners was adopted in 1995. It is based on the principle of a positive list—in the annexes to the directive, there is a list of food additives together with a list of the foodstuffs in which the additives may be used. The conditions of their use are also given. All food additives that are not included in the list are prohibited for use in food within the European Community.Once the period for transposing the directives has expired, member states will not be able to use new additives—except, during a limited period of two years, for new additives that are not included in the positive lists. Neither will member states be able to amend the rules that govern the use of additives on their own initiative. That means that there is a two-year period when national rules can apply. After that period, all those approvals will lapse unless approved by the Community. There is therefore a two-year period during which the United Kingdom can nominate new additives for our use in this country.The European Commission's proposals are based on the principle of complete harmonisation at Community level, which is described in the framework directive on food additives. Uniform rules are needed because additives have an impact on public health. There must be a high degree of transparency between the member states to establish a reasonable level of safety and to allow trade in foodstuffs within the Community.I want to talk about the Miscellaneous Food Additives Regulations 1995. Those Great Britain regulations were required to implement directive 95/2/EC. They were made under the Food Safety Act 1990 and came into force on 1 January 1996. Again, to follow the framework directive, they provide a list of authorised food additives together with a list of the foodstuffs in which they may be used and the conditions for their use—for example, the maximum quantities of additive allowed per gram or per litre of foodstuff.Following those 1995 regulations, two new directives were adopted to allow for technical developments in the field of food additives. The new directives were to cover cases in which additives that had already been authorised were used in new categories of food that were not included in the original directive. They allowed for an amendment to cover those developments. They also took into account the fact that certain food manufacturers in new member states were not included in the original directive. Certain additives were being used in those member states. All the work takes account of advice from the scientific committee on food, which looks at additives on a European level and gives an opinion on their safety. The Miscellaneous Food Additives (Amendment) Regulations 1997, which came into force on 1 July 1997, implemented the requirements of the previous directives. The first directive, 95/85/EC, authorised the use of a new additive, processed eucheuma/seaweed—E 407a. The second, 96/77/EC, laid down specific purity criteria for certain permitted additives, mainly preservatives and antioxidants. In addition, those amending regulations authorised a variation to the two-year national authorisation to permit certain hydrocarbon propellants—propane, butane and isobutane—to be used in an additional food category, water-based emulsion sprays, in Britain until December 1997. Those proposals were accepted by the Food Advisory Committee and cleared by the appropriate safety bodies as safe in relation to any fire hazard. The Food Advisory Committee advises the Government on the use of additives in food, while the Committee on Toxicity of Chemicals in Food, Consumer Products and the Environment looks at the toxicological consequences of such additives. The gases were permitted for use only until December 1997, in garlic oil sprays and in the professional use of vegetable oil pan sprays. The regulations amended the Fruit Juices and Fruit Nectars (Scotland) Regulations 1977 to reflect an EC prohibition on the simultaneous additions of acids and sugars in fruit juices. The Miscellaneous Food Additives (Amendment) Regulations 1999, which further amended the 1995 regulations, came into force on 28 May 1999. Those regulations added flour treatment agents to the list of miscellaneous additives, placed restrictions on the use of additives in plain, pasteurised cream, reduced the level of sulphur dioxide in certain sugars, allowed four new additives to be permitted in the lists, provided for additional uses of additives in foods, added a number of new substances to a list of permitted carriers and solvents and provided for additional uses of certain additives in specified food for infants and young children, including foods for special medical purposes.In addition to the additives regulations, there are the Colours in Food Regulations 1995, the Sweeteners in Food Regulations 1995, the Sweeteners in Food (Amendment) Regulations 1997 and the Sweeteners in Food (Amendment) Regulations 1999. Those regulations refer to colours and sweeteners in food, but they do not relate to the proposal before the committee today.Council Directive 95/2/EC, which harmonised the use of food additives other than colours and sweeteners throughout the Community, has been amended twice and lists the authorised additives, the foods that may be used and the conditions of use. Food additives that are not listed are prohibited. The Commission proposal before the committee would permit the following nationally authorised additives to be used at Community level: ethyl hydroxyethyl cellulose, butane, isobutane and propane. The proposal takes account of the views of the scientific committee on food, which recently evaluated hydrogen for use in food and found its use as a packaging gas toxicologically acceptable. The committee considered unnecessary the establishment of an acceptable daily intake level of hydrogen. The proposal would permit some authorised food additives—sodium algenate, glycerol esters of wood rosin and zinc acetate—to be used in certain new applications and would allocate an E number to the authorised additive propan-1, 2-diol—propylene glycol. That gives committee members a background of the controls at British and European levels. I am happy to take questions on specific additives and additives in general."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 284663,
      "EditedText": "A fashion for cloudy beer has started."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284665",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 284665,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy is obviously the committee expert on cloudy alcoholic drinks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284667",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 284667,
      "EditedText": "I like to see clearly through my drinks—at least at the beginning of the evening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284674",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 284674,
      "EditedText": "The proposal refers only to chewing gum and the use of zinc acetate as a flavour enhancer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284676",
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    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 284676,
      "EditedText": "That should be checked. I once worked with a TV director who collapsed after taking too many pieces of Nicorette gum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 284678,
      "EditedText": "He had probably been smoking as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284680",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 284680,
      "EditedText": "With the decrease in smoking among many people, sales of ordinary chewing gum have increased. We therefore do not know whether the supposed upper limit of 10 strips is the scenario nowadays. Some people might be on a much heavier dosage, particularly in non-smoking offices. Zinc is a poison if it is over-used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284682",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 284682,
      "EditedText": "We should also ask whether chewing gum with nicotine substitute is affected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284684",
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      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 284684,
      "EditedText": "We are the Health and Community Care Committee. I see it as our role, therefore, to ensure that food additives are for the health—or the better health—of the people. I am not an expert on butane or hydrogen and I do not even pretend to know what Stephen is talking about half of the time. However, the scientific committee presumably has members of the scientific and medical communities on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284686",
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      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 284686,
      "EditedText": "The scientific committee has said that the proposal is safe for the people of Britain. It is a British committee—is it not? I hope that I am not mistaken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284688",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 284688,
      "EditedText": "Is it, therefore, an expert committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 284690,
      "EditedText": "Must the chief medical officer rubber-stamp or take a view on the committee's position?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 284691,
      "EditedText": "Not directly. In the UK, at the same time as we go out for consultation, the proposals and the assessment made by the European scientific committee on food go to the Committee on Toxicity of Chemicals in Food, Consumer Products and the Environment, which is a UK expert committee and to the Food Advisory Committee, which is a second UK committee that advises the Government. Both committees consider the proposals, as this committee is doing today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 284701,
      "EditedText": "Members have raised a concern; we can take that forward through our proposals, as well as going through to the scientific committee."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284702",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 284702,
      "EditedText": "Will you note my point as well? Is the assumed upper limit, of roughly 10 strips of ordinary chewing gum, realistic if the statistics on smokers are taken into consideration? Companies such as Wrigley have done some work on increased purchases of chewing gum in relation to giving up smoking."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 284703,
      "EditedText": "We have noted two points already and others may appear. Are we finished with E 650?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 284707,
      "EditedText": "This is part of the waxing process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 284710,
      "EditedText": "Did that happen some time ago?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 284714,
      "EditedText": "Are not we going along with yet another invasion by chemicals? Some quite alarming chemicals—albeit in small doses—are mentioned: cellulose, butane, isobutane and propane are mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 284716,
      "EditedText": "It is complicated; allow me to explain. A lot of the additives that we are talking about today occur naturally in foods. Potatoes, for example, are cellulose and starch. Food is composed of chemicals, as are we, and the industry uses the best bits, if you like, taking cellulose out of plants and using it for other purposes. In those circumstances, it becomes an additive. An additive can be naturally derived from plant material or it can be artificially produced. It is something that we have been doing for many years. There is a long list of artificially produced chemicals that were naturally derived from plant material in the first place but are now manufactured.Butane, isobutane and propane are merely propellants, used as an environmental measure to replace chlorofluorocarbons to avoid depleting the ozone layer. The alternatives to CFCs in most propellant sprays for such things as deodorants and household products are butane, isobutane and propane. The food industry has a similar problem when putting a product into a spray; a propellant is needed to discharge it. The gases that have been mentioned are merely propellants for that purpose. They are the same as the ones used in under-arm deodorant, shaving foam or any other aerosol. In this case, manufacturers want to use propellant in a vegetable oil pan spray and in a water-based emulsion spray, just to give it a bit of a lift."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 284719,
      "EditedText": "I use a pan spray for cooking. One sprays the product directly on the pan and cooks directly on top of that. Are you saying that, by the time it hits the pan and the food is in the pan, the propellant has been lost?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 284721,
      "EditedText": "The aesthetic aspects should not really matter. We should concern ourselves with the effects on health of the additives that are used to make the food look better. Are you saying that the gases also protect the food?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Rooke: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 284724,
      "EditedText": "It delays the onset of decomposition. There are certain organisms that are not harmful to us but cause food to decompose. By changing the atmosphere, one can stop such organisms growing so quickly, and therefore can extend the shelf-life of the product, which will remain safe to eat during that extended shelf-life. There is a preservative as well as an aesthetic effect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 284733,
      "EditedText": "This is a problem of definition; when is an additive not an additive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 284735,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other points or questions?Ben said that he had contacted a number of food manufacturers in Scotland to get their input. If members do background research like that, they should tell me, as it is worthwhile acknowledging it and making use of the information.In answer to our first question about the lack of an impact assessment form, it seems from Ben's conversations that the industry has asked for these changes and is happy with these additives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 284736,
      "EditedText": "Have any significant concerns been raised during the consultation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marion Baldry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 284737,
      "EditedText": "To date, we have had three responses: from the Scottish Consumer Council, the Meat and Livestock Commission and the Royal Environmental Health Institute for Scotland, all of which confirmed that they have no comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 284738,
      "EditedText": "Is not that a rather curious response?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marion Baldry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 284739,
      "EditedText": "They are on our consultation lists for various subjects. On this occasion, they have no comments to offer but, as they want to be kept on our lists, they were being courteous by saying that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 284742,
      "EditedText": "I wish to stress the point that I made earlier. The chances are that the average person who uses Nicorette gum uses more than 10 pieces a day, because it is a substitute. If they smoke 20 cigarettes a day, the chances are that they will use 20 pieces."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 284745,
      "EditedText": "Public health is this committee's key remit. The scientific committee on food, the Food Advisory Committee and the Committee on Toxicity of Chemicals in Food, Consumer Products and the Environment said that these additives have already been examined. I do not have the scientific background to be able to say whether this particular additive is safe, but members of those committees do. The suggestion that the additives are unsafe has not been made to this committee. If that suggestion had been made, Dorothy, we would have a different attitude. However, this range of additives seems to have perfectly healthy uses, in terms of public health, although it may be questionable from an aesthetic point of view, or because it may not be what you or I would like to eat. We must keep in mind the remit of this committee. We have highlighted the issue of chewing gum. The committee clerk has pointed out to me that, despite what I was saying about negotiating teams next week and so on, our job at this stage is forward our comments to the European Committee, which will meet on 19 October. The points that we have made will be passed on to that committee, which will formulate this Parliament's view on the proposal. Is that acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7541,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 284747,
      "EditedText": "I accept much of what Dorothy-Grace is saying, but that is not within our remit as regards this item. We will get our chance on GM foods later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marion Baldry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 284750,
      "EditedText": "It has some way to go yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marion Baldry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 284752,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is still at a very early stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.9922781+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 284755,
      "EditedText": "Just a Comdoc?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 14 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1686
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7541,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 284762,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that would be valuable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:49.0079015+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Friday 8 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18728,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 623509,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I welcome you all to this committee meeting and I would particularly like to welcome Richard Simpson to the committee. Members may be aware that Patricia Ferguson has decided to stand aside from the committee for the time being, to avoid any possible conflict of interest in connection with our current business.I now invite Dr Richard Simpson to make a declaration of interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 623515,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on the order of appearance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623516,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 623517,
      "EditedText": "One person will take the lead in asking questions of particular witnesses, as Lord James has suggested. I propose that members lead questions to individual witnesses as follows: Des McNulty will lead questioning of Mr Nelson; Tricia Marwick will lead questioning of Mr Laurance; Karen Gillon will lead with Mr Barr; Lord James with Mr Reid; and Adam Ingram with Mr Beattie. I believe that some members have particular lines of questioning that they want to pursue with witnesses. I will ask them to let me know them. I would also like members' comments on whether we should allow witnesses to make a statement before we start to ask them questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 623520,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 623521,
      "EditedText": "We have agreed, therefore, that witnesses will be invited to give evidence one by one. We reserve the right to ask any witness to make additional comments, particularly in the light of evidence given by other witnesses. The order of appearance of witnesses will be: Mr Nelson, Mr Laurance, Mr Barr, Mr Reid and Mr Beattie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 623522,
      "EditedText": "We may want witnesses to consider giving us further written evidence once we have finished questioning them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 623526,
      "EditedText": "It is broadly similar to the questions to Dean Nelson. What were the reasons for the meeting with the staff of Beattie Media? What were the details of the meeting, and how did it come about? Did The Observer target Beattie Media, as opposed to any other public relations company operating in Scotland, for a particular reason?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 623527,
      "EditedText": "Karen, what is your line of questioning to Mr Barr?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 623532,
      "EditedText": "I think that that question would be appropriate."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 623537,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming. I appreciate your responding to our invitation. I would like to remind you that you are required to give evidence under oath. We will administer the oath first. I understand that you wish to take the oath, rather than to make an affirmation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623546",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 623546,
      "EditedText": "My third question is this. In your view, did the information that you had provide the basis for making any allegation of wrongful conduct against any MSP named in the transcript?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 623547,
      "EditedText": "There were a number of particular claims that were corroborated. As far as we are concerned, they remain claims for this committee to investigate. However, we believe that they are very serious claims, because a number of points that representatives of the company made were in fact corroborated. For example, they claimed to be able to place an appointment in the finance minister's diary and that Christina Marshall, the minister's secretary, had pencilled it into his diary. When I phoned Christina Marshall on the Friday before 26 September, she confirmed that she had indeed pencilled it into his diary. Likewise, the company claimed to have arranged a meeting with Sam Galbraith for its client, the Scottish Premier League. That was confirmed by Mr Galbraith's former secretary. It was confirmed that he was lobbied and the company claimed that that resulted in the policy that its client was after appearing in Labour's manifesto. It is clear that it was in Labour's manifesto. There are many instances of corroboration that showed us that the claims were very serious, not just throwaway claims."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 18729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 623548,
      "EditedText": "I understand what you are saying about the claims made by Beattie Media. I am just asking you for a yes/no answer. In your judgment, did the information in your possession after the interview provide a basis for making any allegation of wrongful conduct against any MSPs or ministers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 623543,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I arranged it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 623544,
      "EditedText": "You arranged it. My next question is: at what stage did you get information back from the meeting, at which you were not present?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 623549,
      "EditedText": "We have not made any allegation of wrongful conduct by a minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 623552,
      "EditedText": "So it was because you were following up the story between 31 August and 26 September that you decided to delay publication?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 623553,
      "EditedText": "Yes. They had told us that it would not be a problem, in their words, to fix up a meeting. The next stage of the investigation was to establish whether or not they could in fact fix up that meeting. That was the next stage and we were moving on to that. We believe that the company became suspicious and cancelled, so we never got to that stage. Once it became clear that the process was not going to carry on, we examined our material and looked into the issue of publishing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 623556,
      "EditedText": "That was a most responsible action. You were trying to find out whether that was something that they could deliver."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 623559,
      "EditedText": "No. As I said, we received a letter—I cannot remember the date of the letter, but I can provide you with a copy—saying that they were too busy to act for us, so contact was cancelled. That followed an incident that I shall explain to members. We used a company—it was not a fake company, it was a real company—and the people there had a script so that, if there was a call for our businessmen, they could take a message and our businessmen would get back to them. One day, a number of people were away or sick and there was some confusion at that end, so Beattie Media became suspicious.Another important thing to bear in mind is that, around that time, there had been stories in Private Eye and in the Sunday Herald. We believe that the company was therefore very sensitive. It was in the news and the company was very much on its guard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 623562,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful for us to have that confirmed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 623564,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful. The original claim was that the company could deliver that in a month, no problem. If the company backed out after a week, we do not know whether or not that claim can be substantiated, but if it was after three weeks, that would be close to the point by which the company had said that it would deliver. That would demonstrate its incapability of delivering what it had claimed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 623568,
      "EditedText": "When you say politicians, do you mean MSPs or MPs or councillors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623570",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 623570,
      "EditedText": "You were not contacted by MSPs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623572",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 623572,
      "EditedText": "If the politicians who approached you were concerned about lobbying generally, why did you decide to deal with Beattie Media?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 623579,
      "EditedText": "You have misunderstood me. We attempted to establish whether the company could deliver on its claim to be able to fix up a meeting with a minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 623580,
      "EditedText": "How did you, as a professional journalist, attempt to check on the truth of the claims of Beattie Media?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623585",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 623585,
      "EditedText": "No, you have misunderstood me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623590",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 623590,
      "EditedText": "At what stage did you start to work on the transcripts?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623592",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 623592,
      "EditedText": "Who made the decision to publish the story?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623593",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
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      "EditedText": "I did. I discussed it with the news desk in London and we agreed to go ahead on Sunday 26 September. There had been a possibility of speeding things up the week before, but it came at a very late stage and there was still a lot of work to do on the transcript. I wanted to ensure that the tapes were better filtered before we went ahead.It was crucial to get things right. We were making serious claims and we could not afford to get important words wrong. The tape had to be of the highest quality we could get and there was a lot more work to do. I decided not to go ahead that week, but to wait another week and get the tapes cleaned up better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623598",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "No. We had the tape digitally filtered on the Thursday after you first met to discuss this issue. It was returned to us later that week, and that is the best quality tape so far. We provided that to the committee—as an audio tape—on Monday of this week. That is the best record of the meeting. We have not yet updated our transcript to take that tape into account. It does not change the meaning of what is on the tape—there are words here and there, but nothing significant."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623610",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "How would you interpret the demeanour of Jack McConnell in the telephone conversation that you had with him on 26 September? Was he surprised at your call?"
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    "ID": "C623615",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "No. From Thursday night and Friday morning."
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623616",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 623616,
      "EditedText": "So from the evening of 23 September to 26 September you were crosschecking with all the ministers who were named—with their diaries and their personal assistants. That would be a normal time span for checking something like this."
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  {
    "ID": "C623617",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623619",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 623619,
      "EditedText": "I did not get through to Beattie Media. I believe that my colleague may have had correspondence or a discussion with the company."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623624",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 623624,
      "EditedText": "Did you have any contact with Beattie Media before this inquiry started?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623628",
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      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 623628,
      "EditedText": "Have you had any contact with other lobbying companies?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 623631,
      "EditedText": "No. Lobbying is a very tight world. There are contacts and friendships between lobbyists. Given the nature of our exercise, we could not do anything that would compromise it. We did not want them to find out that we were from The Observer until our inquiry had run its course; that is, until we had found out whether a meeting was going to be fixed up."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623636",
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      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 623636,
      "EditedText": "What was your view with regard to the difference in standards between Beattie Media and other lobbying companies?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623643",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 623643,
      "EditedText": "What I would like to do is start off the line of questioning with Tricia Marwick."
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  {
    "ID": "C623645",
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Laurance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 623645,
      "EditedText": "Good morning."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623647",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Laurance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 623647,
      "EditedText": "I would guess that it was probably about 10 days before the 31 August meeting—there or thereabouts—when Dean rang me and gave me an outline of the potential story as he saw it. I am a business journalist by background and he asked me whether I would be prepared to help."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623651",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Laurance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
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      "EditedText": "It is a terrifying experience. It is quite unpleasant, actually."
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    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623657",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 623657,
      "EditedText": "When Mr Nelson discussed the operation with you, did you discuss alternative approaches to obtaining the information about lobbying in Scotland that you sought?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Laurance: ",
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      "EditedText": "I did not know anything at all about lobbying in Scotland."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Laurance: ",
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      "EditedText": "When Dean and I first discussed the matter, I asked him to send me all the material that had been published—some of which he has already mentioned. Dean said that he had discussed it with the editor—who has the final responsibility for our conduct—and had asked him whether he was happy that, in the circumstances, we should proceed in such a way. The editor had said that that was fine as long as there was no other way of doing it."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "I am not really questioning your participation in the operation. I want to know what information pre-dated the decision to go undercover and whether you had it."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Laurance: ",
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      "EditedText": "We were examining Beattie Media and its claims to have contacts at the highest levels of Scottish political life—it says that on its website."
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      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
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  {
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      "EditedText": "I would like to resume the meeting after that short break and welcome Alex Barr. Thank you for accepting our invitation to give evidence to the committee today. Would you like to introduce your adviser before we start?"
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      "EditedText": "This is Mr Rod McKenzie of Harper MacLeod, Solicitors in Glasgow."
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      "EditedText": "Mr Barr, I understand that you wish to make a solemn affirmation. Please stand.Alex Barr made a solemn affirmation."
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      "EditedText": "Does Mr Barr have a statement to make?"
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      "EditedText": "I beg your pardon. Mr Barr, will you give your opening statement?"
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      "EditedText": "So your reason for going was to bid for what you perceived to be a PR contract?"
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      "EditedText": "So the manner in which you conducted yourself in this meeting is not the manner in which you would normally conduct yourself when representing Beattie Media?"
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      "EditedText": "Sure. As I said in my opening statement, it was a sales pitch, and I was trying to impress the potential client. However, in the normal way, when someone has worked with you and got on well with members of staff and left on good terms, l expected that there would be some contact. I have since been informed that that was not the case. In fact, the last time that I spoke to Mr McConnell was, I think, just prior to the election, when I bumped into him—"
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      "EditedText": "We recruit very regularly, because of the growth of the company. The last time that that list was revised will have been last week some time."
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      "EditedText": "Can I ask you to supply to this committee the contacts that you have for Jack McConnell, please?"
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      "EditedText": "I certainly can."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "But every PR company has a contacts programme. Is it not the case, for example, that every time you speak to somebody you record that and what the discussion was about?"
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      "EditedText": "Do you not register that?"
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      "EditedText": "I do not keep a record of that as a matter of routine."
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      "EditedText": "I want to go back to your original statement. You said that The Observer transcript was not a \"full, unedited version\", that\"this can be verified by listening to the tape without the use of sound engineers, headphones or recording studios\"and that there was a paragraph on the tape that had not been recorded. Can you tell me exactly where that paragraph comes in?"
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      "EditedText": "In that context, was your statement just part of the pitch that you were making?"
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      "EditedText": "Of course. What I was doing was leading into an introduction to Kevin, having given the PR pitch. As I have pointed out already, in the context of a sales pitch, I overstated aspects of our activities, and that is one example of how I tried to show that we were perhaps cleverer than we were."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Before asking other members to ask questions, I would like a point of clarification. I refer members to the final page of the transcript. I pointed out that the clerks had gone through the transcript again, at the request of Tricia Marwick, to see whether we could get any more detail from it. At the top of that page, you were asked:\"What sort of contacts do you have with Jack?\"You replied:\"We speak to Jack regularly. I can pick up the phone to Jack, as Kevin can, as Gordon can\".On the clerks' transcript, you go on to say:\"Our MD can, I've got a contacts list. I'm lost today without it.\"I am a little confused about that. When you say, \"We speak to Jack regularly\", do you include yourself?"
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      "EditedText": "I meant a corporate we—Beattie Media."
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      "EditedText": "I will go back to where we were, Mr Barr. Can you tell me, from your contacts book, which you have in front of you, what your pager number is for Jack McConnell?"
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      "EditedText": "The numbers that I have for Jack may be ex-directory numbers. I have four here."
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      "EditedText": "That is the only pager number within your contacts list that you have as a pager number for Jack McConnell?"
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      "EditedText": "Can I point out that he has offered to make all of this available to us?"
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    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623757",
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      "EditedText": "That is a point that I will perhaps raise with your colleague, because that is not the pager number referred to by either of you in the transcript.Can I ask you when you last spoke to Christina Marshall?"
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      "EditedText": "Can you tell us initially, what was the purpose of that call?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623763,
      "EditedText": "Those are slightly different words from those that you use in the transcript, Mr Barr. Can you explain the difference?"
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 623765,
      "EditedText": "The words that you used, Mr Barr, were \"consider it done.\""
    },
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    "ID": "C623770",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623770,
      "EditedText": "No. On the back of that, having inquired as to another speaker, my assumption was that it was confirmed."
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623775,
      "EditedText": "Is that normal practice for Beattie Media?"
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  {
    "ID": "C623782",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623782,
      "EditedText": "It is something that I will have to deal with. Having said that, in the conversation I had with Christina she told me that I should consider it confirmed unless I heard back from her, which I did not. I know her to be reliable and meticulous, and I am sure that she would have called me back had there been any dubiety."
    },
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623784,
      "EditedText": "Christina is the only diary—or constituency—secretary I know. On some occasions, I have to explain who I am and what the company does. On other occasions, the client wishes to make that contact themselves."
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 581.0,
      "ContributionID": 623794,
      "EditedText": "Can I be allowed to explore this?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C623797",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623797,
      "EditedText": "The E coli incident was public relations. I went in to sell public relations and not public affairs. That is not something that I have done before or since."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "You would have to ask Gordon Beattie about that. Having discussed the matter with him, I believe that he has been in touch with Jack a couple of times. I am not aware of anyone else in the company having done so."
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      "EditedText": "That has proved to be the case, but I have explained a couple of times before about the relationship with a former employee."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
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      "EditedText": "By putting your relationship with Mr McConnell up front, the implication is that Beattie Media had some sort of on-going relationship with McConnell. The fact that McConnell was hired with the certain knowledge that he would be a member of the Scottish Parliament and probably a minister suggests that there might have been some sort of post-election strategy. Has there been such a strategy?"
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      "EditedText": "I presume that Jack McConnell would have received any invitation to the finance director of the year award ceremony in his capacity as a minister."
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      "EditedText": "Presumably, if he was to attend the meeting as a minister, the contact would have had to go through the private office in any case?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "In specific circumstances, if we have a contact number or it is easier to do it via the constituency office, we would do that."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "Is it not normal practice, Mr Barr, to follow that up in writing, so that that can be passed on to the appropriate ministerial office?"
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      "EditedText": "It is, and I undertook to provide further details to Christina in writing nearer the time."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "I remain unconvinced, Mr Barr, that you would tell a major client that you had confirmed a speaker without first confirming that through the appropriate channels. Is that normal practice?"
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      "EditedText": "It was not a normal circumstance, in that if Christina told me that she would come back to me and I should take it as confirmed if she did not come back to me—I know her to be meticulous. I would have expected a phone call."
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      "EditedText": "Mr Barr, bear it in mind that we are not examining your conduct particularly; we are focusing on the conduct of MSPs."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "I want to come back in later on the letter that has been produced today, but if Karen has other questions, she should ask them now."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "Convener, it is important that we go through the various ministers involved and clarify the assumptions or otherwise that are made in the transcript. The next minister to be mentioned is Sam Galbraith, the minister for sport. On this part of the transcript, I am not completely clear which game you are referring to. Perhaps you could clarify that."
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    "ID": "C623848",
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      "EditedText": "Yes, you could take it like that."
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      "EditedText": "I would have to explain that."
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      "EditedText": "Please do."
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      "EditedText": "I will just finish. I was aware that we were organising the event. As I said before, it is not unusual when we organise events that we also handle the invitations to the VIPs. However, if the client wishes to do that, that is entirely appropriate."
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      "EditedText": "So your client, who is paying all that money for your expertise, knows the processes for getting a minister to an event better than you do?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623863,
      "EditedText": "Okay. I move on to the press release. You and Beattie Media put out a press release: \"Minister unveils name of world-class visitor destination on banks of Loch Lomond: Henry McLeish, MSP, officially launches start of construction of Lomond Shores\".Is there a protocol that you, as a PR company, follow when dealing with ministers and ministerial engagements?"
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  {
    "ID": "C623864",
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      "EditedText": "My solicitor wishes to make a representation."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rod McKenzie (Harper MacLeod, Solicitors): ",
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      "EditedText": "I fail to see how the way in which Beattie Media handles its PR business is relevant to the conduct of MSPs."
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      "EditedText": "Did you liaise with the Scottish Office press office?"
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      "EditedText": "I would have to check that for you. I did not handle that work. As I said, I was on a fortnight's holiday immediately prior to that."
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      "EditedText": "What was the date of this event that we are talking about—the date?"
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      "EditedText": "Thank you."
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      "EditedText": "Sorry, my mistake."
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      "EditedText": "The matter of the approach? I raised it when I received the letter back from Anthony James, saying, \"Let's see if you can get us access to politicians.\" I put a copy of the letter on Gordon's desk. Although the letter was dated 8 September, I think, it was nearer 15 or 16 September when it arrived with us. It was sent to our Edinburgh office, as opposed to our Glasgow office."
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      "EditedText": "This should be my final question. I will see how it goes. An assertion appears a couple of times in the transcript, but I would like you to elaborate on it, given the discussion that we have had about Mr McLeish and Mr Galbraith. Can you elaborate on your assertion in the video that you were \"constantly involving politicians in launches, exhibitions, speeches, presentations\"?Was that done by telling companies that it might be useful to write to a minister through the ministerial office, or was it done through direct contact from Beattie Media and, if so, can you give us examples now or provide examples to the committee?"
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      "EditedText": "None at all. Having read The Observer that day and having watched television on the Sunday, it became clear that the information contained within that report was apparently broadcast on national television the day before."
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 913.0,
      "ContributionID": 623962,
      "EditedText": "I wish to make what is perhaps a helpful suggestion, Mr Barr, that, in future, you do not try to draw other people into something as part of a sales pitch, which you cannot justify further down the line."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "ID": 169
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 915.0,
      "ContributionID": 623963,
      "EditedText": "We have to remember, Karen, that we are talking about MSPs' conduct. Are there any other questions?"
    },
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      "ID": 1876,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 919.0,
      "ContributionID": 623965,
      "EditedText": "What was the point of that? Why are you reading this? What point are you trying to make to us?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623966",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 921.0,
      "ContributionID": 623966,
      "EditedText": "The point that I was trying to make was that Anthony James acknowledges that we said that we would not be able to secure access; he acknowledges that we would not operate behind closed doors. However, the specific tenor of his letter was, \"I'm looking for access.\" That was one of the reasons why we decided that we did not wish to pursue it."
    },
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    "ID": "C623968",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 925.0,
      "ContributionID": 623968,
      "EditedText": "I have to say that, having been in the meeting and having looked at the tape, far from Kevin boasting that the secretary of state was his father, he mentioned it in almost an embarrassed fashion. That would my interpretation of it. If you look at the tape, you will see that."
    },
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 927.0,
      "ContributionID": 623969,
      "EditedText": "I will put the question to Kevin whether he is embarrassed about being his father's son, but it was Kevin himself who raised the fact that he was John Reid's son. You are—"
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    "ID": "C623970",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "I am sure that Kevin will testify to that in his own terms."
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623974",
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      "EditedText": "Welcome, Mr Reid. Thank you for accepting our invitation to give evidence today. Before we start, I remind you that you are required to give evidence under oath. I understand that you wish to take the oath."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 941.0,
      "ContributionID": 623976,
      "EditedText": "You have an opening statement that you would like to make."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623978",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 945.0,
      "ContributionID": 623978,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I would like to reiterate, both to you and to committee members, that we are not investigating your behaviour. It is the conduct of MSPs that we are looking at, and to do that, we must look at how your actions have impacted upon that. Lord James, you would like to lead off with questions."
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 947.0,
      "ContributionID": 623979,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your statement, Mr Reid. I think that I am correct in saying that on page 6 of the transcript you are recorded as saying:\"I'm not going to come here and promise you access to people. I wouldn't do that.\"Towards the bottom of the same page you said:\"I'm not going to promise you access to people because of who I am and who I know.\"Would I be right in thinking that that represents your clear position?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C623980",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623985",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 959.0,
      "ContributionID": 623985,
      "EditedText": "We have Beattie Media's letter of 31 August. Is there any other correspondence from Beattie Media?"
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  {
    "ID": "C623986",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "No. I did not send a letter to say that we had turned their business down. I did that over the phone."
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      "EditedText": "Yes, it was a shock."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623994,
      "EditedText": "In some ways, if I was prepared for my remarks to be made public, I might have, but I was trying to be honest in answering the questions. I have looked at the way the questions were put to me, and I do not think that there are many other ways in which I can answer, if someone keeps asking me who I know and what access I can provide. I can only say eventually, \"Right, this is who I know, but I am not going to give you any access.\""
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      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 979.0,
      "ContributionID": 623995,
      "EditedText": "I think that you may have answered this on the last page of your statement. You said:\"For the record . . . I have had no contact with any Scottish Executive minister, nor have I discussed Beattie Media business with any MSP or any member of the UK Government.\"I want to be quite clear about this. Arising out of the transcript and the video, can you tell us whether, since the election to the Scottish Parliament, you have spoken to MSPs or ministers of the Scottish Executive on matters relating to your business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 985.0,
      "ContributionID": 623998,
      "EditedText": "No, not about business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 993.0,
      "ContributionID": 624002,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 995.0,
      "ContributionID": 624003,
      "EditedText": "Did you, at any stage, try to arrange a meeting, or meetings, with MSPs or Scottish Executive ministers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 999.0,
      "ContributionID": 624005,
      "EditedText": "That is a social matter. Did you make any contact relating to the business of your clients?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1003.0,
      "ContributionID": 624007,
      "EditedText": "In the transcript you make reference to several big clients that have been won since May. Which clients are they?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1011.0,
      "ContributionID": 624011,
      "EditedText": "What is the significance of the tie-up with Apco UK? Does that have anything to do with MSPs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1013.0,
      "ContributionID": 624012,
      "EditedText": "No. Apco UK is a public affairs company based in London. It was the London arm of our operation and we were its Scottish arm."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1015.0,
      "ContributionID": 624013,
      "EditedText": "Did that have anything in particular to do with Scottish MSPs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1031.0,
      "ContributionID": 624021,
      "EditedText": "You said that you have not discussed business matters with him since the election. Did you receive information about the content of forthcoming announcements by MSPs, before those announcements were made?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1037.0,
      "ContributionID": 624024,
      "EditedText": "My information came from the television and the newspapers. I think that a television reporter has confirmed that. Furthermore, as the Westminster Government is following a three-year plan, it is obvious that after the first year of that, there would be two years left. That is where I got my information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624026",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1041.0,
      "ContributionID": 624026,
      "EditedText": "I had no contact with anyone—elected or otherwise—working on the budget. No, it was not inside information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624029",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1047.0,
      "ContributionID": 624029,
      "EditedText": "On page 9 of the transcript, you referred to: \"The Federal Express announcement which came out last week . . . with Lord McDonald . . . that's one of APCO's clients and I was advising them in Scotland on that issue, so that was pushed through.\"What exactly did you mean by \"that was pushed through\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624034",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1058.0,
      "ContributionID": 624034,
      "EditedText": "That was actually a question to Alex Barr. I knew that he had not done anything in public affairs, but I knew that he was doing the Loch Lomond project. It was about a PR issue and you will see that there is a question mark after it. I was asking Alex Barr, \"hasn't he?\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624038",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624038,
      "EditedText": "No briefing was given by Beattie Media to Jackie Baillie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624039",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1068.0,
      "ContributionID": 624039,
      "EditedText": "On page 9, about two thirds of the way down, you say:\"so we briefed Jackie Baillie on that as well.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624040",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1070.0,
      "ContributionID": 624040,
      "EditedText": "I referred to we meaning myself as part of the client's team."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1078.0,
      "ContributionID": 624044,
      "EditedText": "No. As I have explained, my office was trying to find some information on coal. We did not ask specifically for Kenny MacAskill. I mentioned it because of the ease with which we got through. We asked for a spokesman from the SNP and were put straight through to Kenny. I was explaining that because I was surprised."
    },
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    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624045",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1080.0,
      "ContributionID": 624045,
      "EditedText": "On page 10, when asked about fixing a possible meeting with ministers, you said, \"Probably Jack?\" Why was that?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1122.0,
      "ContributionID": 624066,
      "EditedText": "I have a degree in history with politics and a law degree, and I have worked for a political party."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "When I worked for the Labour party, he was one of our candidates."
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1140.0,
      "ContributionID": 624075,
      "EditedText": "I find it a bit peculiar that a professional lobbyist does not have any contact with any MSP, minister in the Scottish Executive or UK minister. When did you start work with Beattie Media?"
    },
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    "ID": "C624084",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624084,
      "EditedText": "I am not talking about the process of contacting ministers, but how best to explain to them what the companies are doing and how to word that in such a way that it promotes what they are doing. I did not advise them, \"There is a phone number or there is an address,\" but told them, \"You are doing good things here. You should send the message out that you will create this number of jobs.\""
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
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      "EditedText": "I turn to a comment that was made by one of your colleagues, Alex Barr, at the meeting in the Balmoral. The context is that you had been asked about your relationship with other people. Alex said:\"The way we have to approach it is . . . to say . . . Just because you've worked with someone doesn't mean to say they're going to throw you a £200 million PFI project\".He goes on to develop that a bit, but then leaves the sting in the tail: that it is \"certainly to your advantage\" to have that relationship. I notice that you did not negate that particular statement. How would it be to your advantage to have those relationships?"
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Do you have any more questions, Adam?"
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "Sorry?"
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      "ContributionID": 624101,
      "EditedText": "I knew the numbers of all the candidates because I set the system up. However, I did not use any of them and I did not give the numbers to anyone in Beattie."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "That was just a point for clarification as that is clearly not the number to which Mr Barr referred."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1198.0,
      "ContributionID": 624104,
      "EditedText": "I want to clear up a couple of other points on the Federal Express contracts. At this point, Mike, can I declare an interest?"
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    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624110",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1210.0,
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      "EditedText": "I just want to clarify that Beattie Media at no point spoke to either of the two ministers named in relation to the Fed Ex deal."
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    "Person": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624112,
      "EditedText": "Kevin, at the conclusion of the meeting, what was your feeling about how the meeting had gone?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624118",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is in the fourth paragraph on the first page."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "Again, I was speaking as part of the client team. I had an opposite number at Loch Lomond project. Prior to the launch, I discussed with him what issues, apart from tourism, were important, and what other messages should be given to those who need to know. I went away on my honeymoon, and when I came back he phoned me to say that he had managed to contact Jackie Baillie. I was only a consultant."
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      "EditedText": "And the client was Loch Lomond—"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "Loch Lomond project."
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    "ID": "C624129",
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      "EditedText": "No."
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      "EditedText": "Yes, I checked with Companies House, and it had been registered for 11 years and had submitted tax returns the year before. I phoned directory inquiries and the three phone numbers on the company's headed notepaper were the three numbers that I was given. I had never heard of the company, but I checked up on it and had no reason to disbelieve what I had been told."
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    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624135",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "EditedText": "So your response to the misgivings that you had following the meeting at the Balmoral was to send a letter clarifying the situation and what you felt you could offer—a letter that we have—and, subsequently, to turn the business down. Is that what you are telling us?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "I would like to turn to page 6 of the transcript, where Alex Barr says:\"I'll let Kevin deal with the contacts programme\".There is then a slight interruption, before Ben Laurance says:\"Sorry Kevin, you were going to say\".That is when you say that you cannot promise access to people. Tell me about the contacts programme."
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      "EditedText": "It was Alex Barr's comment—I can only guess that he was saying that an element of public affairs is to point out to clients who the people are whose positions mean that they should know what the clients are doing. As I said before, if the work that you are doing has various aspects that involve different areas of Government, you should keep people informed. That is all that it is about."
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      "EditedText": "So that is your understanding of a contacts programme?"
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      "EditedText": "Picking up on that point, your previous work experience was in the Labour party."
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      "EditedText": "What special qualifications do you think you had—"
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      "EditedText": "I think we have had that question."
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      "EditedText": "I was in charge of media monitoring for the Labour party, and what they—"
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      "EditedText": "Tricia, could you remind us in what way your line of questioning is relevant to the conduct of MSPs?"
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    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624165",
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    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624167",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "On a point of order, convener. I do not see the relevance of this statement to our inquiry, which is dealing with potential contacts between Beattie Media and MSPs. I do not think that we should allow a rant against The Observer from Mr Beattie."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1329.0,
      "ContributionID": 624169,
      "EditedText": "There have been at least two full transcripts from The Observer, but the transcript is still incomplete. I have listened with interest to the explanations that The Observer journalists have given for setting up the sting. Quite frankly, I reject those explanations, which are nothing more than another fabrication. The journalists acted, ladies and gentlemen, for one reason only: they wanted to entrap the son of the Secretary of State for Scotland and thus embarrass him and Beattie Media."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1331.0,
      "ContributionID": 624170,
      "EditedText": "Mr Beattie, we have a lot of leeway here, but I would rather that you did not make allegations against others at the moment. We are here to examine MSPs and I would like to confine the discussion to the evidence that is in the public domain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1336.0,
      "ContributionID": 624172,
      "EditedText": "I call Adam Ingram to lead the questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1338.0,
      "ContributionID": 624173,
      "EditedText": "Could you detail the contacts that you or your company have had with Jack McConnell or members of his staff since the election in May?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1342.0,
      "ContributionID": 624175,
      "EditedText": "Neither you nor any member of your staff—I believe you have 80 members of staff—has been in contact with Jack McConnell since the election?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1348.0,
      "ContributionID": 624178,
      "EditedText": "Jack McConnell was recruited because he had the skills to fulfil the role of chief executive of a company called Public Affairs Europe, which was a 50:50 joint venture between Beattie Media and a commercial law firm. Jack McConnell was never an employee of Beattie Media itself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1350.0,
      "ContributionID": 624179,
      "EditedText": "Could you repeat what you said about Public Affairs Europe?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1352.0,
      "ContributionID": 624180,
      "EditedText": "It was a 50:50 joint venture between Beattie Media and a commercial law firm."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1362.0,
      "ContributionID": 624185,
      "EditedText": "No turnover?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1368.0,
      "ContributionID": 624188,
      "EditedText": "I expected that there would be a great deal of interest in the Scottish Parliament and that existing clients of Beattie Media and a commercial law firm would be interested in making use of information services relating to the Scottish Parliament. That turned out not to be the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1378.0,
      "ContributionID": 624193,
      "EditedText": "What did you see as being the competitive advantage of hiring Jack?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1384.0,
      "ContributionID": 624196,
      "EditedText": "He was headhunted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1388.0,
      "ContributionID": 624198,
      "EditedText": "I heard that Jack McConnell was about to resign as general secretary of the Labour party, and I made an approach. I do not know whether that information was correct—I do not know whether he had any intention of leaving his position as general secretary of the Labour party in Scotland. I made the approach to him and asked if he would be interested. He was interviewed by the senior partner of a commercial law firm and me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1404.0,
      "ContributionID": 624206,
      "EditedText": "So you did not discuss with Mr McConnell, at the time of his appointment or in the interim period between his appointment and the election, any of his activities post-election, as a minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1406.0,
      "ContributionID": 624207,
      "EditedText": "I must interject here, Adam. We must move away from the recruitment policy of Beattie Media—certainly as it applied before May."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1414.0,
      "ContributionID": 624211,
      "EditedText": "There was no understanding post-election, pre-election, or whatever. Mr McConnell was recruited by Public Affairs Europe because of his abilities. There was no understanding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624212",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1416.0,
      "ContributionID": 624212,
      "EditedText": "I ask again, because I believe it to be a relevant question, how you went about recruiting Kevin Reid and Christina Marshall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1418.0,
      "ContributionID": 624213,
      "EditedText": "Who do you want me to deal with first?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624214",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1420.0,
      "ContributionID": 624214,
      "EditedText": "Whichever one you want to deal with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1426.0,
      "ContributionID": 624217,
      "EditedText": "Kevin Reid was recruited because of his abilities; because he had a political background, like Jack McConnell. Sure, he was not nearly as experienced as Jack—that point has been made and I have noted it. People are saying, \"Why did you recruit Kevin Reid?\" I will tell you why I recruited Kevin Reid. I was extremely impressed by Kevin when he came along for an interview. I gave him the hardest interview that I have ever given anyone, because I was not going to recruit him just because his father was the Minister for Transport. It is important to point out that his father was the Minister for Transport when I recruited Kevin—he was not the Secretary of State for Scotland and, as Minister for Transport, he did not even have a Scottish brief."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1443.0,
      "ContributionID": 624225,
      "EditedText": "This is a follow-up from questions that I have asked your employees. On the ministers and the events named in the transcript, for example, Sam Galbraith and the SPL, to your knowledge, did Beattie Media directly contact any minister to gain access to them in relation to those events?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1447.0,
      "ContributionID": 624227,
      "EditedText": "Helen Liddell?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1449.0,
      "ContributionID": 624228,
      "EditedText": "Or Helen Liddell. I can say that categorically: we did not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624232",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1457.0,
      "ContributionID": 624232,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we organised a photo call to launch the company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1459.0,
      "ContributionID": 624233,
      "EditedText": "Are you still proud of what Jack achieved at Public Affairs Europe?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1479.0,
      "ContributionID": 624243,
      "EditedText": "Further to that, were you party to the decision to withdraw, which I think we have now clearly established from all the parties this morning was made on 16 September?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1481.0,
      "ContributionID": 624244,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I was. I was party to that decision because I started to get very uneasy when we were getting letters from Commercial and Legal Services saying:\"I think the best way to proceed is for you to see if you might be able to fix up a meeting—with Jack McConnell, or even better John Reid.\"I am sorry, you know—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1499.0,
      "ContributionID": 624253,
      "EditedText": "How do you feel about your own employees, who are suggesting that you actually did have that kind of influence? You have talked about the standards of Beattie Media. You have talked about your professionalism, expertise and how you attract \"the best people\". How do you personally feel today, having heard that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1503.0,
      "ContributionID": 624255,
      "EditedText": "Can I just ask—Interruption."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rod McKenzie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1509.0,
      "ContributionID": 624258,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I have already asked the clerk: I ask The Observer not to snigger or make comments while my witness is giving evidence. That has happened repeatedly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1511.0,
      "ContributionID": 624259,
      "EditedText": "I have not heard that, but I ask everybody in the public gallery to remain silent while all the evidence is being given."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1513.0,
      "ContributionID": 624260,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask Mr Beattie about the routine procedures that operate within the company when a client approaches it. Is it for people working at the level of Mr Reid and Mr Barr to take forward a business proposition to a significant extent before notifying yourself, Mr Beattie, or are there norms and procedures operating in the company on receiving an approach from a company, through which there might be a mechanism of reporting to you that an approach is taking place and reporting what that consists of?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1515.0,
      "ContributionID": 624261,
      "EditedText": "Normally, I personally try to get involved when there is a business pitch. The problem with the day in question—with The Observer's sting—was that I had three bookings in my diary. I could not fulfil them all, and I went to another one. In hindsight, it was probably a mistake to pitch Alex into that situation, because he had never before been involved in speaking to a public affairs client—and there is a difference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1517.0,
      "ContributionID": 624262,
      "EditedText": "If there are any more questions, I must insist that they are related to MSPs' behaviour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1519.0,
      "ContributionID": 624263,
      "EditedText": "I will make one quick point: it came up at the tail-end of your contribution. Alex had indicated that he was under the impression that it was a public relations client he was going to see. You clearly state that you were well aware that it was a public affairs client."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1521.0,
      "ContributionID": 624264,
      "EditedText": "My understanding of what Alex was saying was that we had been invited to go along to a public affairs pitch. However, Alex was going along to sell the PR service as well, because he believed it would be in a potential client's interests to have publicity to back up what the public affairs team was doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1536.0,
      "ContributionID": 624271,
      "EditedText": "I believe she was with us for just over a year and she may have done the odd letter for him, but nothing more than that. She worked as an assistant to my PA. I can keep two people going full time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1538.0,
      "ContributionID": 624272,
      "EditedText": "I can believe it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1544.0,
      "ContributionID": 624275,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. The introduction to the evidence that was laid before us this morning by The Observer states that\"we were contacted by concerned politicians. They had been offended by approaches from lobbying companies. These companies had offered them employment, which would involve using their contacts on behalf of lobbyists' clients.\"Which politicians did you attempt to employ in this context?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1552.0,
      "ContributionID": 624279,
      "EditedText": "Not a current MSP?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1554.0,
      "ContributionID": 624280,
      "EditedText": "Not a current MSP."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1566.0,
      "ContributionID": 624286,
      "EditedText": "I was disappointed to lose Christina, because she was doing a great job for us. I am happy to testify to that this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624289",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1572.0,
      "ContributionID": 624289,
      "EditedText": "Are there any more questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1578.0,
      "ContributionID": 624292,
      "EditedText": "That closes the evidence session. Thank you very much, Mr Beattie, for coming along today. We appreciate it.Before I close item 1, would members like me to ask any of the five witnesses whom we have heard today to give any further comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1594.0,
      "ContributionID": 624300,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments?Do you wish me to do that or not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1596.0,
      "ContributionID": 624301,
      "EditedText": "It may be that The Observer people will wish to comment on the information that they have heard from the other witnesses, and will be prepared to do so in writing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624306",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1606.0,
      "ContributionID": 624306,
      "EditedText": "We can recommend that in our report at the end of this investigation, if that is what the committee decides."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624315",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
      "HeadingID": 18730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1612.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1625.0,
      "ContributionID": 624315,
      "EditedText": "Correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624318",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1631.0,
      "ContributionID": 624318,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, yes. We are interested in the conduct of MSPs from the very date of the election."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624328",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
      "HeadingID": 18730,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1651.0,
      "ContributionID": 624328,
      "EditedText": "It would be both inappropriate and not competent for the committee to request the diaries of Mr Sam Galbraith in relation to events that occurred before the creation of the Scots Parliament. We have to be seen to be acting correctly, and we do not have the jurisdiction or the authority to make such a request."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624331",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
      "HeadingID": 18730,
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 624331,
      "EditedText": "Is that accepted?Members indicated agreement."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624335",
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      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
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      "HeadingID": 18730,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1665.0,
      "ContributionID": 624335,
      "EditedText": "Lord Macdonald was also mentioned in the transcript. Does anyone want to comment on that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624338",
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      "Heading": "Documents ",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1671.0,
      "ContributionID": 624338,
      "EditedText": "Our responsibility is to deal with MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1673.0,
      "ContributionID": 624339,
      "EditedText": "I felt that we should record that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1675.0,
      "ContributionID": 624340,
      "EditedText": "Des McNulty has expressed his view about Sam Galbraith. In the same way, we should put on record our view that the interviews that we have conducted today revealed no allegations or evidence of impropriety on the part of Lord Macdonald and Helen Liddell."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624341",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1677.0,
      "ContributionID": 624341,
      "EditedText": "Is that the view of the entire committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624344",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1683.0,
      "ContributionID": 624344,
      "EditedText": "We should be clear that this might be only a starting point. Further on in our inquiry, we might request more papers, but what we have already asked for will give us enough to work on for the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1687.0,
      "ContributionID": 624346,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that suggestion. We should add that our hope and expectation is that we will keep to the original timetable that we set of completing the process by the first week in November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624349",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "ID": 169
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1693.0,
      "ContributionID": 624349,
      "EditedText": "Indeed—a swift, thorough, comprehensive and public examination of all these issues. We have shown that that is what we intend.As there is no further business, I will close the meeting. Thank you."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C624350",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 13:55."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623510",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Friday 8 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18728,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 623510,
      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623512",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
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      "EditedText": "It makes sense to call the witnesses one by one. One member should lead the eliciting of information from witnesses and other members can ask questions afterwards."
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 623513,
      "EditedText": "Are we all agreed?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623514",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 623518,
      "EditedText": "It would be appropriate to ask witnesses whether they want to make a brief presentation. I emphasise, however, that statements should be brief—certainly no more than five minutes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623519",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ID": 2140,
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "Are we all agreed?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623523",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 623523,
      "EditedText": "That would be most appropriate. Are there any other comments? If not, I will move on. I should point out that when I suggested that certain members take the lead on questioning of witnesses, I did not mean that only those members would be able to ask questions. I propose to allow a particular line of questioning to be chosen and to be pursued, but that does not prevent other members from coming in afterwards. Please feel free to ask questions. The lines of questioning will reflect the points that members made in our earlier brief discussion. Members are free to seek information from witnesses on any matter that arises from today's proceedings. I confirm that witnesses will be allowed to make an opening statement, but that it should not, as Des suggested, be longer than five minutes. Before we call the witnesses, I would like members to outline the line of questioning that they want to pursue, so that we are clear. Des, would you like to indicate the line of questioning that you want to pursue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 623524,
      "EditedText": "Broadly speaking, I want to ask Dean Nelson about when he got the information about the meeting between Ben Laurance and Beattie Media and about the decisions that were made by The Observer about publishing the story. I want to know what assessments were made of the information that the paper had. I want to ask what contact Mr Nelson has had with people from Beattie Media and about the information that has been presented to us in terms of completion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623525",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 623525,
      "EditedText": "Tricia, what line would you like to take with Mr Laurance?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623529",
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    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 623529,
      "EditedText": "Lord James, what is your line of questioning?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623531",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 623531,
      "EditedText": "It relates particularly to the part of the transcript in which Mr Barr makes reference to a code of conduct that is currently in place and to his belief that it is not adequate."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623534",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 623534,
      "EditedText": "There are two or three matters that I want to discuss with Gordon Beattie: first, the activity of Beattie Media, including the business methods involving contacts with politicians; secondly, the recruitment of staff from political parties; thirdly, the role of particular members of staff, including former members named in the transcripts."
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson (The Observer): ",
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      "EditedText": "Good morning."
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      "EditedText": "Absolutely.Dean Nelson took the oath."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Mr Nelson, I believe that you would like to make an opening statement. Is that correct?"
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, Mr Nelson. I would like to move straight to questions now. Des, would you like to start?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623550",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 623550,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. Why, given that you got the information quickly after the meeting on 31 August, did you not publish the story until Sunday, 26 September?"
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    "ID": "C623555",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Absolutely. They claimed that they were able to fix a meeting with the minister and we had to establish whether or not they could do that."
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    "ID": "C623563",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "I can provide the letter."
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  {
    "ID": "C623567",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
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      "EditedText": "The conversations that I had with those people were off the record. I have since been back to the people concerned and I have asked if they would free me of any obligation to them in that respect, but they asked to remain anonymous. I have to respect that.However, that is how the situation came about. People had been contacted by lobbyists and were offended because they felt that they were being asked to trade for contacts and favours that they had built up through long periods of political activity."
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  {
    "ID": "C623569",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "I am not talking about anyone in those categories. I really do not want to compromise their anonymity. I have to keep my promise to them."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623574",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "EditedText": "To clarify, Dean, am I right in thinking that after you got the initial evidence, you pursued a line of inquiry to determine whether you could take that story one stage further and try to discover evidence of wrongful conduct?"
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  {
    "ID": "C623577",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "We have not claimed to establish wrongful conduct. We have brought our evidence to you in the hope that the committee can establish the truth of the claims."
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  {
    "ID": "C623581",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
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      "EditedText": "Once we had a transcript, we had to whittle down the main allegations in terms of contact with ministers and senior advisers, and contact people. On the Friday morning, I think 24 September, I contacted Sam Galbraith's former secretary—from when he was sports minister. She confirmed to me that he attended a football match with the chief executive of the Scottish Premier League. I contacted Christina Marshall and put to her that Alex Barr had made this claim about her putting an appointment in the diary, and she confirmed that he had called her. She confirmed that she had pencilled it into the minister's diary. In fact, she repeats that around three times: that she had pencilled it into the minister's diary for him to consider. She said that the minister was not aware of it yet, which, incidentally, is contradicted by Jack McConnell, who says that he had been aware of it, and that it had not been in a diary, but in a notebook. I asked Christina Marshall whether she remained in contact with staff from Beattie Media. She said that she did, but not always on business issues. She said that it was sometimes on business issues. When I asked her what kind of business issues they were, she said that she did not want to talk about it and did not want to discuss it with me until she had had a chance to talk to the Minister for Finance about it.Those, I suppose, were the two main claims made by the company. We pursued them and found some corroboration for its claims. We contacted the Government, obviously. I read a full transcript—the most up-to-date transcript that we had at that time—to the Government on Friday. The Government's spokesman came back to me with a statement regarding the company's claims against Jack McConnell, Henry McLeish, Sam Galbraith, Jackie Baillie and the special advisers. We went to every person of significance who had been mentioned—who would feature in the article. We put the allegations to them, either directly or through the Government spokesman."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623582",
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      "EditedText": "Can I be clear: when did you do this? You mentioned 24 September."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623586",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "EditedText": "I am sorry. I just want to be clear."
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      "ContributionID": 623588,
      "EditedText": "Just so that I am clear: you had the information on the tapes shortly after the meeting. You did not seek to clean up the tapes or provide the transcript until you had pursued your inquiries further."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "The investigation was incomplete at that stage."
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      "EditedText": "I had listened to the tape and we had the gist of what it said. A full transcript was not produced until the week before publication."
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    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623594",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "EditedText": "You had thought that you might defer the story for a further week?"
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  {
    "ID": "C623595",
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      "EditedText": "No. I think on the Thursday—what date would the Thursday before Sunday 19th be? It was the 16th. We knew then that our business with Beattie Media was at an end and we had to decide whether we could do everything that we needed for that Sunday's newspaper. We decided that we could not because there was too much to do. We deferred for a week and set about work in earnest."
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    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623596",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Are you finished, Des?"
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    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623597",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "EditedText": "No, I have two more questions. Is the transcript that was delivered to us on 29 September a complete record of the meeting on 31 August?"
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      "EditedText": "Is there any other material relevant to this inquiry in your possession?"
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      "EditedText": "Tricia, you have been trying to get in."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "You had a telephone conversation with Jack McConnell on Saturday 26th in which he said—agreed—that Ms Marshall would discuss the invitation with him, that she was waiting for a formal invitation and that it was pencilled into her notebook. Do you have a tape of that?"
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  {
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      "EditedText": "No. Again, I took a shorthand note. I can provide the committee with a full transcript of that interview. What we have done is provide the sections of interviews that we believe are relevant to the issues. I can get a full transcript to you early next week."
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  {
    "ID": "C623609",
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      "EditedText": "She did not seem alarmed. She seemed honest. She did not become overly concerned until I pressed her on what particular issues she discussed with Beattie Media. At that point she became nervous and said that she did not want to discuss that with me until she had had a chance to talk to Jack McConnell about it."
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  {
    "ID": "C623611",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "No. He had known about it from the day before. From the moment, I believe, on Friday when we began talking to people such as Christina Marshall and ministers' secretaries and so on, the alarm bells started ringing and everybody knew what kind of story we were pursuing.I had spoken to the Government and read the full transcript to the Government the night before, so by Saturday morning Jack McConnell knew exactly what we were looking at. He was worried and anxious, as anybody would be when they are aware that serious allegations concerning them are about to be published."
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623612",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623612,
      "EditedText": "This is just for clarification—not being a journalist, I do not know how long it usually takes to crosscheck a story of this sort. You began crosschecking on the evening of 24 September, and you published on 26 September?"
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      "EditedText": "Right. I will want to come back and look at that. The crosschecking is important."
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      "EditedText": "Had I personally?"
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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    "ID": "C623629",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 623629,
      "EditedText": "Not in this investigation. The investigation began with Beattie Media and we published as soon as we were in a position to do so."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623630",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 623630,
      "EditedText": "So you had no contact with Beattie Media's competitors who might have suggested that Beattie Media had an advantage over them?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623633",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 623633,
      "EditedText": "Do I think that Beattie Media's claims to have higher standards has caused the backlash within the industry?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 623634,
      "EditedText": "A backlash against Beattie Media."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623635",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 623635,
      "EditedText": "There have been articles that suggested that there has possibly been a bit of needle between Beattie Media and other companies, but we did not have contact with other lobbyists. Until our investigation had run its course with Beattie Media—to the point of establishing whether Beattie Media would fix up a meeting—we did not talk to anybody. Otherwise, Beattie Media could have known what we were up to. We had to be very disciplined about that part of the investigation. Once that had been included, we had to approach everybody openly, read the transcript to them and ask for their response. That was how it was conducted."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
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      "EditedText": "We have not made any allegation of wrongful conduct. We have brought our investigation to this committee, as the proper authority, to take it further. We have investigated up to this point; we now bring it to you and hope that you will establish the truth of the claims that were made by Beattie Media. As I said, we wish you every success and all the support that we can give you with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623646",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 623646,
      "EditedText": "We have heard from Dean Nelson about the reasons behind the sting, if it can be called that. When were you first involved in the planning process?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623649",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Laurance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 623649,
      "EditedText": "I have never done it before."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623650",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 623650,
      "EditedText": "An interesting experience?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623652",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 623652,
      "EditedText": "Specifically, were Alex Barr and Kevin Reid the staff of Beattie Media that you had hoped would come to your meeting? Did you specifically ask for Kevin Reid and Alex Barr?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623653",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Laurance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 623653,
      "EditedText": "No. What happened was—this may help with Mr McNulty's concerns about the timing—should I do that, Mr Rumbles?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623654",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes, please."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623656",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
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      "EditedText": "Does anyone else have a question?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623662",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Laurance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 623662,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry if I am unclear about your question. The only information that I had was given to me by Dean: the tip-offs, which we mentioned in the statement, and previously published material. He has much greater experience of investigative work than I do and he had some thoughts about how we might approach the story. I did not have any independent information."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623663",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 623663,
      "EditedText": "Were you briefed as to a particular line to take in the meeting, in terms of individuals who might be exposed by the operation?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623666",
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    "Committee": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Laurance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 623666,
      "EditedText": "We were trying to check out the extent of Beattie Media's claims. We were clearly trying to discover whether Kevin Reid, as the son of the Secretary of State for Scotland and as a result of his former role as a Labour party operator, was going to be used as part of the marketing pitch.Dean told me that there had been a connection with Jack McConnell, but at the point when I went in and started the meeting we had no idea that his name was going to come up so much."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623674",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "I would like to call on Karen Gillon first."
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 623677,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful to the committee for giving me the opportunity to give my version of this affair. I was keen that any substantive statement would by heard first by an inquiry into the matter. As my brief written statement has made clear, I deeply regret the impact that this matter has had on individuals, organisations, politicians and the Parliament itself.I also reiterate my sincere apology to those concerned for overstating aspects of Beattie Media's activities during the meeting that the First Minister has accurately described as a sales pitch.As the committee considers what was said during the course of this meeting, I would ask members to bear in mind that Kevin and I were set up through deception on the part of The Observer. It is now clear that that paper spent weeks planning ways in which they could encourage us to make extravagant claims about connections with politicians.Kevin and I thought that we were engaged in a competitive business pitch against other agencies and we responded accordingly. I would ask the committee to view the conversations in the context of our being encouraged to sell ourselves and our capabilities so that The Observer could achieve its predetermined and concealed aims.I would also point out that there have been a number of extremely significant and misleading omissions, both in The Observer's coverage and in the transcripts that were produced.I was so concerned following the meeting that the supposed client might be labouring under the misapprehension that we could promise access to ministers that I wrote to him on the very same day—not weeks later, as we have heard today—to make our position clear. That was not covered in any article in The Observer.In the letter, I clearly stated that\"we do not believe that it is in anyone's best interests to have lobbying firms briefing politicians ‘behind closed doors'\".I also made it clear that\"It would be both unprofessional and immoral for any public affairs consultancy to promise access to ministers\".However, those and other statements were completely and deliberately ignored by The Observer, for obvious reasons, as was, importantly, the fact that we refused to work for the supposed client.Given some of the comments that were made earlier this morning, I want now to move away from my prepared statement to read a further excerpt from the letter. I said:\"We undertake at all times to operate to the highest ethical standards on behalf of our clients, as shown by our recent public pronouncements on the need for the public affairs and lobbying sector in Scotland to be regulated by Parliament. To this end, we undertake always to identify to MSPs, officials, etc, the name of the client for which we operate. We will therefore need this, and further, information prior to commencing work on your behalf.\"That letter was sent to reinforce categorical statements made during the meeting by both Kevin and myself that we could not promise access to ministers, that things should be done transparently, that meetings should not be held behind closed doors, and that it would be the business merits of any project that would ultimately determine its success, not the relationships that anyone might have with politicians.We received a letter back from Anthony James, which basically ignored what I had said in my letter and asked us to go ahead and try to set up meetings with politicians. It became clear from that letter that he was interested in access to politicians and not, as I had suggested in my letter, a wide-ranging public affairs strategy. We did not send a letter back to him as was said this morning. I believe that Kevin contacted him. I want to stress that we never contacted any politicians on his behalf. I can also point out that what is alleged to be, in The Observer's words, a \"full, unedited transcript\" of the meeting is anything but that. Indeed, there has been selective, prejudicial editing out of information that was obviously regarded as incompatible with The Observer's strategy.Importantly, during the meeting, I referred to the strategy whereby companies and organisations should operate transparently, making direct and open contact with politicians,\"rather than having a team of lobbyists working behind closed doors\". Even those comments would not have been seen by anyone reading The Observer, because they were not included in the reports. It is also the case that the supposedly full, unedited transcript put together by The Observer and passed to the committee does not include the full, unedited version of my comment. What I actually said—and this can be verified by listening to the tape without the use of sound engineers, headphones or recording studios—was:\"It's the most transparent way to operate, rather than having a team of lobbyists working behind closed doors and it's all done on a nod and a wink–It can't be done like that.\"I am happy to answer any questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 623686,
      "EditedText": "No, it was not. Usually, it is a straightforward PR pitch."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 623688,
      "EditedText": "In a normal meeting, I would concentrate on public relations, which is my area of expertise. I would not have strayed into public affairs. However, it was obvious that the client was almost exclusively interested in public affairs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623702",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 623702,
      "EditedText": "It would have been revised when he left the company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623703",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 623703,
      "EditedText": "So the list has not been revised since Mr McConnell left the company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 623709,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 623715,
      "EditedText": "It was in the letter. It would be normal—again, I am straying into the public affairs aspects of this matter—for a client to want to meet specific people. That would be organised through normal channels, either by contacting a member's constituency office or via the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C623717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 623717,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623722",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 623722,
      "EditedText": "Beattie Media does not do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 623723,
      "EditedText": "If it is relevant and I need to take notes to back up the conversation I will do that, but it is not a matter of routine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 623725,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I can. If you have the transcript before you and it is the same as mine, the paragraph appears on the page whose first word is \"worried\". I think that it is the third last page. It comes immediately after \"consider it done\". AB on that page says\"It's the most transparent way to operate . . . rather than having a team of lobbyists working behind closed doors\".That sentence should continue\"and it's all done on a nod and a wink—It can't be done like that.\"There is another omission further on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623726",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 623726,
      "EditedText": "Sorry to interrupt, but can we clarify where you are quoting from? You must be using a different transcript."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 623728,
      "EditedText": "I was sitting in front of my television in my living room with my two-year-old boy making noise in the background and still managed to hear it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623730",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 623730,
      "EditedText": "Knowing what I said, if you listen to the tape again you will hear it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623734",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 623734,
      "EditedText": "That would be the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623735",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 623735,
      "EditedText": "Another point that I wanted to pick up on was that you indicated that, halfway through the meeting, you got the impression that the clients were not looking for PR and you changed your pitch, as it were, or your approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623739,
      "EditedText": "The point that you were making in your statement was that that sales pitch to that particular company was unusual. That was almost your first statement."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Does that include yourself?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "His pager number, please?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is the only number that you have in your book as a pager number for Jack McConnell?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "I am glad to let you see the numbers. Those are all the numbers that I have for him. I will be glad to let you see the book."
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    "ID": "C623758",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "The last conversation that I had with Christina Marshall was the telephone conversation that is referred to within the transcript."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "The purpose of that call was, as the transcript shows, that we handle PR for the financial director of the year awards. We were asked as part of that PR contract to suggest a speaker, in fact two speakers, one of whom is not a political figure. I suggested that it would be appropriate that, as Mr McConnell is the Minister for Finance, he might wish to speak at it. The client liked that idea. I called Christina and gave her an outline of what the event would entail. I suggested to her that it would be a good opportunity for Jack to meet with people in the financial sector, get some good coverage and make a speech."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "What, specifically, did you ask Christina Marshall to do?"
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  {
    "ID": "C623762",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "I asked Christina to check Jack's diary and inquire as to whether Jack would be willing to do that. She said to me, words to the effect of, \"I will pencil it in. If you have not heard back from me in a couple of days, then you can consider it confirmed.\""
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
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      "EditedText": "I do not know what the difference that you refer to is. I am sorry."
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    "ID": "C623768",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "It would be a couple of months ago, perhaps 10 weeks, something like that."
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    "ID": "C623776",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes, there is certainly nothing out of the ordinary with that, but the fact that I knew Christina and she was able to be assured, knowing that she had worked with me helped the process because I did not have to explain it in the same way as I had to explain it the previous year when we asked Alex Salmond. I contacted Alex Salmond's constituency office in Banff and spoke to one of his workers, a chap, and explained on the phone to him in the exact same way, but I had to go through the rigmarole of who I was and who Beattie Media was, and what not. I sent some details a few weeks later and got the confirmation back that Mr Salmond would do it. He turned up and gave a speech."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623778,
      "EditedText": "Given the media coverage, they may have a seed of doubt in their minds."
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623783",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "I want to be clear about patterns here. We have clarified the situation with regard to Jack McConnell and Christina Marshall, and you have mentioned Alex Salmond. In terms of other MSPs, do you regularly do business by phoning them up and asking them to confirm? If you happen to know their diary secretary, you effectively short-circuit that process."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "I would have to stress that that is purely on public relations work; it is not public affairs work."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is right."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "I return to the statement that you gave us this morning. You said that when you went to the meeting, The Observer deceived you. You and Kevin had thought that you were in a competitive business pitch against other agencies and responded accordingly. We are asked to view the conversation in the context of people who were encouraged to sell themselves and their capabilities to achieve The Observer's predetermined and concealed aims. I believe that Mr Reid—and no doubt he will speak for himself later—is relatively inexperienced, but you are a professional media and public affairs officer who has been around for about 10 years and is a director of Beattie Media. Do you honestly mean to tell us that that was a one-off occasion on which your tongue ran away with you?"
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      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 577.0,
      "ContributionID": 623792,
      "EditedText": "My experience is in public relations; not public affairs. It happened that I was in the meeting to sell on public relations. The supposed businessman was driving the conversation towards the subject of access all the time. It is not something that I have been involved with before."
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623793,
      "EditedText": "Tricia—"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 583.0,
      "ContributionID": 623795,
      "EditedText": "I know that the relationship is important, but bear it in mind that this committee of inquiry is about MSPs' conduct."
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    "ID": "C623799",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 591.0,
      "ContributionID": 623799,
      "EditedText": "As I said, I went to sell public relations, not public affairs. If there has been any dubiety caused as a result of that, that is the explanation for it."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 593.0,
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      "EditedText": "Is it not the case that that would be your normal pitch, rather than an unusual one?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623802",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 597.0,
      "ContributionID": 623802,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to your contact with Christina Marshall. You know her and seem to be able to cut to the chase when trying to set up Mr McConnell for a number of engagements. Do you contact Christina more regularly than you do other people?"
    },
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 601.0,
      "ContributionID": 623804,
      "EditedText": "You indicated that you had not spoken to Mr McConnell since the election. What contact has Beattie Media had with Mr McConnell since the election?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C623809",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 611.0,
      "ContributionID": 623809,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely not. There has been no impropriety, to my knowledge, concerning politicians—MPs or MSPs or members of their staff—and anyone from Beattie Media."
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "It would be in his capacity as the finance minister. That is what would make it appropriate."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623812",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 617.0,
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      "EditedText": "Would it not be normal to put a request for the finance minister to attend such a conference through his ministerial private office?"
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  {
    "ID": "C623813",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 619.0,
      "ContributionID": 623813,
      "EditedText": "Surely. With hindsight, I can say that that would be the case. I have explained the case for contacting Christina in terms of not requiring to establish credibility."
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  {
    "ID": "C623815",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 623.0,
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      "EditedText": "That may well be the case. I would have to say that I contacted Christina because I knew her. I am not particularly familiar with the machinations of private office or ministerial office. I am sorry."
    },
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  {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 625.0,
      "ContributionID": 623816,
      "EditedText": "Given the fact that Beattie Media is a major PR firm within Scottish public life, I suggest that the machinations of how to contact a minister or invite a minister to be involved in anything should be very much part of your information base and how you would conduct yourself. There is a clear code of conduct on how to invite ministers to meetings—are you saying that you are not aware of that?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623825",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 643.0,
      "ContributionID": 623825,
      "EditedText": "I just want to be clear, because this is an important point that the committee may wish to come back to."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623833",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 659.0,
      "ContributionID": 623833,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, the matter would not be competent for this Parliament, because it predates—"
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623837",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 667.0,
      "ContributionID": 623837,
      "EditedText": "What role did your company play in securing Mr Galbraith's attendance, and how was that attendance achieved?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623838",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "The chief executive of the Scottish Premier League was appointed in the first week of August prior to that. Although he is a Scot, he had been working for several years in Italy. He came back, was appointed and had to hit the ground running as the football season was about to start. He had very little administrative support and he had said that as part of his on-going work he wanted to meet people of influence—politicians, journalists, people from the sports community.One suggestion that I made was the sports minister—football is the biggest sport in the country, so I thought that that would be appropriate. One of the main aims of the SPL is to increase youth development, and as part of the process, the SPL wanted to start the debate on that subject. I suggested that Sam Galbraith, the sports minister, would be an appropriate person to take to a football match. A letter of invitation was sent from the chief executive of the SPL to the minister; the minister replied and attended the game along with 30,000 other people."
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 672.0,
      "ContributionID": 623839,
      "EditedText": "I will not comment on that.Let me just be clear on this: the letter was sent from the chief executive of the Scottish Premier League to the minister, through the appropriate channels, to invite him to attend a match at Ibrox in the qualifying stages of the champions league."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is right."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "Why then did you take credit for the minister accepting that engagement?"
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      "EditedText": "Yes, I would admit that to be the case."
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      "EditedText": "The claim that you made in the transcript is wrong; is that right?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "I will. Two weeks prior to that event, which was on a Monday, I was on annual leave. Our event management team was asked to organise that event and our PR team was involved in the public relations aspects of the contract. When we are asked to organise an event, I handle the PR. It is not unusual for us to invite the VIP guests, whoever they may be. I was under the impression that that had happened in this case. Having checked the matter, I have found that the client sent the invitation to the office of Donald Dewar, who passed it to Mr McLeish, and that we did not handle the invitation."
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      "EditedText": "That is correct."
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      "EditedText": "That would be right. I imagine that there would also be a press release from the minister's office, but the main press release on the day would have been sent by us."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "No, I have to say—"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 712.0,
      "ContributionID": 623859,
      "EditedText": "So you do know that one has to go through ministerial offices?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623867",
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      "ContributionID": 623867,
      "EditedText": "That is a relevant point. Tricia, we should focus on the behavioural aspects of the MSPs. That is what is important; that is the remit of this investigation."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 730.0,
      "ContributionID": 623868,
      "EditedText": "I was trying to establish whether Beattie Media had been in liaison with the Scottish Executive's press office before the press release was put out. I think that that is germane to the Parliament itself."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 740.0,
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      "EditedText": "It was Monday 19 July."
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      "EditedText": "Is that correct?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Fine. I shall come back to that."
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      "EditedText": "Can you perhaps—just to tie some things up for us—explain your offer to facilitate face-to-face meetings between clients and the Executive to the businessman whom you met on behalf of The Observer?"
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      "EditedText": "As can be seen from the transcript, the way that the question is phrased, within a sales context, is very clever: \"I was wondering . . . I mean, there's absolutely no chance you could . . . say?\"If you are in a position like that and you are trying to win business, the last thing that you are going to say is, \"No, you are absolutely right—there is no way I could do that.\" If you say that, you might as well just walk out the door."
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      "EditedText": "Because, at that time, I believed that it might be possible for someone who was seeking to invest major amounts of money in the Scottish economy to have a discussion with the relevant politician."
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      "EditedText": "So you think that that would be achievable—that you could facilitate a face-to-face meeting between a client whom you do not yet know and a member of the Executive?"
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      "EditedText": "The restating that it would be \"unprofessional and immoral for any public affairs consultancy to promise access to ministers\". That is what your letter of 31 August stated."
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 856.0,
      "ContributionID": 623934,
      "EditedText": "That is helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 860.0,
      "ContributionID": 623936,
      "EditedText": "We did not progress with the business because, having sent the letter restating that we could not promise access to ministers, I received a letter back—a copy of which I do not have, but which my solicitor will be able to produce—which said that it took on board all that we said, but could we forget all about that, and could you still set up meetings with ministers? The letter that I sent to him was pitching for the ability to deliver a wide-ranging PR strategy, including information gathering and other aspects. It became clear on receipt of that letter that the businessman was interested only in access, which was not business that we wanted to pursue. As a result, I understand that Kevin made contact with him and told him that we did not wish to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 863.0,
      "ContributionID": 623937,
      "EditedText": "At what point did you raise the matter of this approach with Mr Beattie?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 869.0,
      "ContributionID": 623940,
      "EditedText": "The next I heard was that Gordon had discussed the matter with Kevin and that a decision had been taken not to proceed with the work. That was the last involvement that I had until—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 875.0,
      "ContributionID": 623943,
      "EditedText": "I have only one question. Did you receive any information about the content of forthcoming announcements on the part of the Administration, either from MSPs or from their advisers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 877.0,
      "ContributionID": 623944,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but I am not clear what you mean."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 879.0,
      "ContributionID": 623945,
      "EditedText": "I will ask again. One of the suggestions made by The Observer is that advance information was given to Beattie Media in connection with the financial statement that was forthcoming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 883.0,
      "ContributionID": 623947,
      "EditedText": "Did you have any advance information about any Administration statements before they were made?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 889.0,
      "ContributionID": 623950,
      "EditedText": "I think it was the Friday evening prior to the Sunday when the report was published."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 893.0,
      "ContributionID": 623952,
      "EditedText": "I will be honest. I did not give it another thought once I had put the letter on Gordon's desk and had heard that we had decided not to proceed with the work. It came as something of a shock."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 901.0,
      "ContributionID": 623956,
      "EditedText": "I noticed a turn of phrase that you used. You said, \"I will be honest.\" All the evidence that you are giving us is on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 905.0,
      "ContributionID": 623958,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of final points. In the letter that you sent to Mr Anthony James, you said:\"As discussed, Kevin was previously head of the press and monitoring unit for the Labour Party . . . Alex Thompson joined us from the Labour Party . . . She has, since joining Beattie Media, demonstrated an impressive ability to generate accurate and meaningful data\".That comes after the bit about how you cannot promise access to individual ministers. If you cannot promise access to ministers, of what relevance is the fact that Kevin and Alex joined from the Labour party?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 907.0,
      "ContributionID": 623959,
      "EditedText": "It was merely credentials. It was giving background to the people who worked within the company, just as we would in a public relations pitch. That was written in conjunction with the public affairs section of the company."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 909.0,
      "ContributionID": 623960,
      "EditedText": "So, on the one hand, you are saying that there is no preferential or priority access to ministers; on the other hand, in the almost-final paragraph of your letter, you are saying that, of course, Alex and Kevin have those Labour party contacts. Is not that saying two things? Is there not, yet again, a general hint in your letter, which is supposed to clear up the matter, that you can give such access to ministers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 911.0,
      "ContributionID": 623961,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely not. I think that I was, if you read the beginning of the letter, which mentions in-depth monitoring, merely trying to demonstrate the expertise of the people within the department, in terms of monitoring and research."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 917.0,
      "ContributionID": 623964,
      "EditedText": "The letter that came back from Anthony James on 8 September has just been passed to me. He thanks me for my letter of 31 August and goes on to say:\"In your letter, you reject the suggestion that lobbyists should be briefing politicians ‘behind closed doors.' Instead, your job would be help our clients secure direct access, allowing them to put their message across. We completely agree with this approach. This fits exactly with the thinking of my clients. They were very interested to hear about Kevin and Alex's contacts within the Labour Party. And when I mentioned that he is the son of the Scottish Secretary, they got positively excited!\"He then asks:\"I think the best way to proceed is for you to see if you might be able to fix up a meeting—with Jack McConnell, or even better John Reid . . . If you could sort something out, I will do my level best to get my clients to fit in with whatever you arrange.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ContributionID": 623973,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid (Beattie Media): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 939.0,
      "ContributionID": 623975,
      "EditedText": "Yes.Kevin Reid took the oath."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623984",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 957.0,
      "ContributionID": 623984,
      "EditedText": "Contrary to what has been said earlier, telephone calls were made to my office during my honeymoon, asking for me specifically. When I returned, I was told about the calls and I asked Alex Thompson to get their details if they called back. There were one or two return calls. I am not sure of the details, because I was not in the office. They asked for me specifically, and I asked for details about the meeting in writing. A fax was sent from Commercial and Legal Services (UK) Ltd, saying that they would like to meet us."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623988",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623988,
      "EditedText": "I initially agreed to the meeting believing that it was to discuss PFI. That is what I researched and that is what I wanted to talk about. I mentioned to Gordon that I had been contacted and that the meeting was taking place. He said that he would come along, because he is the chief executive."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
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      "EditedText": "Did you think that you would be delivering a normal sales pitch?"
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  {
    "ID": "C623990",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "I did not even know if it was going to be a sales pitch, to be honest. I had an inquiry about PFI in Scotland from someone who said that he was based down south and did not understand the environment. I did not know if it was going to lead to a sales pitch."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4533922+00:00"
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    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 987.0,
      "ContributionID": 623999,
      "EditedText": "So the answer to that question is an emphatic no?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "C624004",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 997.0,
      "ContributionID": 624004,
      "EditedText": "No, not in relation to any business. I met one MSP for lunch; he paid for the lunch."
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  {
    "ID": "C624008",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1005.0,
      "ContributionID": 624008,
      "EditedText": "The Multiple Sclerosis Society in Scotland and the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority."
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  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624009",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1007.0,
      "ContributionID": 624009,
      "EditedText": "Were MSPs involved?"
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  {
    "ID": "C624016",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1021.0,
      "ContributionID": 624016,
      "EditedText": "My view was—and still is—that the Parliament was set up to be open, so that anyone could have access to the e-mail addresses and work phone numbers of MSPs. I was trying to illustrate the point that it was not about access—that was not an issue. I was trying to explain to the gentleman that it was political knowledge that I could provide—it was nothing to do with access."
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  {
    "ID": "C624018",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "In the context of what I was saying, yes. I had been continually asked who I knew and what access I could provide. I explained who I knew and I tried to explain that the fact that I used to work for the Labour party does not work against me. Rather, it gives me an understanding of the politicians and of political issues. That does not mean that I provide access. It means that I can give a political opinion to my clients. That is the understanding."
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  {
    "ID": "C624020",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "Chris Winslow."
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  {
    "ID": "C624022",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1033.0,
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      "EditedText": "No. I used to work in media monitoring and I read the papers and watch television. That is where I got my information."
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  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624027",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
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      "EditedText": "On page 9 of the transcript, Lord Macdonald's name is mentioned. What was your involvement with Lord Macdonald of Tradeston over Federal Express? Did that involve any MSPs?"
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  {
    "ID": "C624028",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "No. I was in London, at Apco UK's headquarters, with the pitch for the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority. My opposite number at Apco UK told me that Federal Express was one of its clients and asked if I knew anything about the Scottish situation regarding fifth and sixth freedoms. I said that I remembered reading in the 1997 SNP manifesto that the party was calling for those freedoms to be opened up. I made a call to my colleague in Scotland and asked him to fax a copy of that to Apco UK. I went on my honeymoon and came back and checked the SNP's 1999 Scottish Parliament election manifesto, which again referred to the opening up of the freedoms. I sent that to Apco UK by e-mail. That was my total involvement. I gave a Scottish context; I did not have any dealings in the matter outwith that."
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  {
    "ID": "C624032",
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      "EditedText": "No. I just meant that the decision was taken."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1056.0,
      "ContributionID": 624033,
      "EditedText": "You said of Henry McLeish:\"He's done a couple of things for us in the last couple of months, hasn't he?\"What were those two things?"
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "I was explaining that I was not sure whether he had done a couple of things. That is why I was asking Alex Barr, \"hasn't he?\""
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1064.0,
      "ContributionID": 624037,
      "EditedText": "I see. Can you tell us what were the details, content and timing of the briefing given by Beattie Media to Jackie Baillie?"
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    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624041",
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      "ContributionID": 624041,
      "EditedText": "So, if they had interpreted that to mean that the company had briefed Jackie Baillie, that would have been incorrect."
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      "EditedText": "I see. On the next page, Kenny MacAskill's name is mentioned. Did you have any contact with Kenny MacAskill?"
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      "EditedText": "Were you in regular contact with Jack?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "Prior to the election. Part of my job was to—"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
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      "EditedText": "Did you say during the election or just after the election?"
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      "EditedText": "No. It was before the election—around January."
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      "EditedText": "I think that you may already have answered this question, but have you paged him on any business matter since then?"
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      "EditedText": "It was part of my job to send out pager messages to all Labour MSPs—sorry, I mean all Labour candidates—before the election."
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      "EditedText": "One of the allegations is that Beattie Media had claimed that it had been able to place an appointment in the Minister for Finance's diary. Would you deny that?"
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      "EditedText": "I knew nothing about it. I still, to be honest, do not know the details of it, because it was not within public affairs and that is all that I dealt with."
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      "EditedText": "What qualifications and abilities caused you to become a lobbyist in Scotland?"
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      "EditedText": "Thank you."
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1126.0,
      "ContributionID": 624068,
      "EditedText": "Turning to the last page of the transcript, you say:\"Jack was one of our candidates.\"What did you mean by one of \"our\" candidates?"
    },
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    "ID": "C624069",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1128.0,
      "ContributionID": 624069,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, I was slipping into the past tense and speaking as a member of the Labour party."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "So it was in the context of your previous employment?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624074",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624074,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
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    "ID": "C624076",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1142.0,
      "ContributionID": 624076,
      "EditedText": "I was offered the contract on 23 March and I started on 17 May."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624078",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1146.0,
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      "EditedText": "It entails supplying biographical details of MSPs to clients and monitoring the Scottish Parliament, and the far wider remit of looking at what our clients are doing and explaining to them that—for example, if they are in construction—it is not just about the building they are making but the effect that they have on the community, the jobs they create and the environment. It entails explaining to them the channels that that information should be disseminated through, explaining which local politicians and members of the Executive will be interested. It does not involve me talking to the politicians."
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  {
    "ID": "C624080",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "I was advising my clients on how best to send information about their company to politicians. That is not the monitoring side; that is the campaigning side."
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624081",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
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      "EditedText": "So campaigning essentially involves advising your clients on how to contact ministers?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624087",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
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      "EditedText": "What value is that to your clients?"
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  {
    "ID": "C624088",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624088,
      "EditedText": "It is of value because my clients want to build up a positive relationship with the public and the elected members."
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624093",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624093,
      "EditedText": "No."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1186.0,
      "ContributionID": 624098,
      "EditedText": "So there would have been a different number available at Beattie?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624100",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "Would Beattie have had that number?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624103",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624103,
      "EditedText": "No, I did not go around giving out MSPs' numbers."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C624107",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes. I was asked—"
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  {
    "ID": "C624115",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624116",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "EditedText": "He had consulted you on it. The following phrase is in the letter: \"unprofessional and immoral for any public affairs consultancy to promise access to ministers\". Was that put in because you were uncomfortable? Why is that phrase included?"
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1230.0,
      "ContributionID": 624120,
      "EditedText": "That is very helpful.I want to return to a specific issue, about which I am not yet totally happy. You say something in the transcript—unfortunately my copy is not numbered, but the reference is on the third page from the back—about Jackie Baillie. Some of this is not totally clear—there is a question mark next to \"developers/development\", but you go on to say:\"so we briefed Jackie Baillie on that as well\".Mr Laurance says:\"Sorry, which minister?\"You reply:\"Jackie Baillie.\"Further down you say:\"we wanted to get another political message as well as money, as well as tourism, but also helping the environment, helping the area, so we briefed Jackie Baillie on that as well.\"You said twice that you briefed Jackie Baillie. Are you now saying that you did not specifically do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1234.0,
      "ContributionID": 624122,
      "EditedText": "So your statement is correct in the sense that Beattie Media had briefed Jackie Media."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1238.0,
      "ContributionID": 624124,
      "EditedText": "So \"we\" in this case is not Beattie Media, but the client."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1246.0,
      "ContributionID": 624128,
      "EditedText": "So as far as you are aware, nobody in Beattie Media had direct contact with this minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1253.0,
      "ContributionID": 624131,
      "EditedText": "Kevin, when you had an approach from a firm that, I presume, you did not recognise, did you carry out any preliminary or investigative checks to determine whether this was a real company?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1259.0,
      "ContributionID": 624134,
      "EditedText": "I did not realise that it was not a real company until it became a story in the newspaper. My misgivings related to the actions and ethics of the company. That is why I did not want to do the business. It was not because I thought that it was not a real company, but because I thought that what it was asking for was wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1265.0,
      "ContributionID": 624137,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask a question, again for clarification, before we move on. Earlier, I asked Alex Barr what he meant when he said that \"we\" speak to Jack regularly. His reply was that he was not part of \"we\". You have just told us that when you said that \"we\" had briefed Jackie Baillie you were not including yourself in that. Do I have that absolutely right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1279.0,
      "ContributionID": 624144,
      "EditedText": "Because—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1281.0,
      "ContributionID": 624145,
      "EditedText": "Are you not saying, on the one hand, \"I can't promise you,\" but on the other, \"Here are all the folk I know\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1283.0,
      "ContributionID": 624146,
      "EditedText": "No. If you read the start of the paragraph, I said that I could not promise him access to people but I could tell him who I knew. I said that because I had been asked, \" Who do you know and what can you promise?\" And I answered, \"I'll tell you who I know, but that does not matter because I am not promising you any access.\" I say that at the beginning of the passage and I repeat it at the end, after I mention who my dad is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1287.0,
      "ContributionID": 624148,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1295.0,
      "ContributionID": 624152,
      "EditedText": "I think that I explained that a second ago. What I said was that there is nothing wrong with my working for a political party and using my understanding of the political system and the personalities in that party to give advice to my clients. That is what I am saying—that I understand the system. I am not saying, \"I can get you access.\" If I am asked what qualifications I have to do the job properly, all I can do is give my previous work experience and my qualifications. That is all that I was doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1311.0,
      "ContributionID": 624160,
      "EditedText": "Okay, fine. I want to move on to one of your other comments in the transcript. You were talking about how the civil service is basically in charge, and that there are a lot of inexperienced politicians in the Scottish Parliament. You referred to them as the No 2s instead of the No 1s. Would you like to explain that remark?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1317.0,
      "ContributionID": 624163,
      "EditedText": "I was making the point that Mr Reid obviously has a great deal of knowledge of MSPs, and I was curious as to why he referred to them as No 2s."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1319.0,
      "ContributionID": 624164,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions? No?Thank you very much, Mr Reid, for giving us your evidence.Thank you for accepting our invitation, Mr Beattie. I remind you that you are required to give evidence under oath. I understand that you wish to take the oath.Gordon Beattie (Beattie Media) took the oath."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1323.0,
      "ContributionID": 624166,
      "EditedText": "Yes. You did not receive my opening statement in advance because I wanted to hear what The Observer said before concluding what I wanted to say.I have stated from the outset of this affair that I would co-operate fully with the Scottish Parliament and the Standards Committee to establish whether there has been any impropriety between representatives of Beattie Media and Government ministers. The Standards Committee will form its own conclusions in due course, but based on my own investigation, I am certain that there has been no impropriety in dealings between representatives of Beattie Media and Government ministers, MSPs, MPs, or members of their staff. It is a matter of deep regret that embarrassment has been caused to the Scottish Parliament and to individual ministers. For that, I apologise publicly and without reserve. As I have said, this was a deliberate case of entrapment by newspaper executives, who had a preset agenda and a determination to make selective use of evidence that was gathered. The newspaper executives have defended their actions as legitimate tactics deployed in the public interest, but is it in the public interest to withhold evidence from the Parliament and this committee on the pretext that sound engineers had found and cleaned up additional extracts from the tape? Is it in the public interest to make available to this committee what The Observer claimed was a \"full, unedited transcript\", when in fact what was delivered was not a full, unedited transcript?The Observer is one of Britain's most authoritative newspapers, but I suggest that it has not enhanced its reputation in this affair. Surely it could have had the tape transcribed by an independent professional, who would have produced a clean and full transcript. Instead there have been at least two full transcripts—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1334.0,
      "ContributionID": 624171,
      "EditedText": "It is important to remember that Alex Barr and Kevin Reid repeatedly declared—verbally and in writing—that they could not promise access to ministers. In addition, Kevin told the bogus businessman that Beattie Media would not do business with his company.Beattie Media's recruitment policy has come under fire. My response to that is simple: people are employed by the company because of their abilities and skills, full stop. We have grown, during a 14-year period, from a one-man operation to become one of the biggest public relations companies in the UK. That has not happened because of political contacts or imagined influence; it has happened because we employ the best people in the industry and we will continue to do so. We will continue to serve our clients by focusing on our core skills of media relations, PR and event management."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1340.0,
      "ContributionID": 624174,
      "EditedText": "I think Alex Barr has told you that he has not spoken to Jack McConnell. I have spoken to Jack McConnell on two occasions: the first time to congratulate him on his appointment, the second on a personal matter regarding someone who had an illness. There was one other occasion when we came into contact. We met at an Arts and Business event in Edinburgh. Jack was at one table, I was at another. I simply went up to him, patted him on the back and said, \"well done.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1346.0,
      "ContributionID": 624177,
      "EditedText": "I take it that you disagree with Alex Barr's statement at the Balmoral meeting that Jack McConnell was hired by your company\"in the certain knowledge that Jack would get a safe seat from the Labour Party, and in the hope and expectation that he would also get a cabinet position within the new administration\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1358.0,
      "ContributionID": 624183,
      "EditedText": "Could you give me some idea of the performance of the company in that period?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1364.0,
      "ContributionID": 624186,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1374.0,
      "ContributionID": 624191,
      "EditedText": "What were the attributes of Mr McConnell that attracted you? Would those attributes include his contact list?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1382.0,
      "ContributionID": 624195,
      "EditedText": "How was he recruited? Was an advertisement placed in the papers or was he headhunted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1386.0,
      "ContributionID": 624197,
      "EditedText": "Right. Who advised you to go for Jack?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1392.0,
      "ContributionID": 624200,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely—I am just coming to a relevant question.Mr Beattie, you must have known when you were recruiting Mr McConnell that he intended to stand for the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1394.0,
      "ContributionID": 624201,
      "EditedText": "I knew that he intended to stand, but I felt that he would make a good chief executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1396.0,
      "ContributionID": 624202,
      "EditedText": "He was, however, going to be there for only a very short period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1400.0,
      "ContributionID": 624204,
      "EditedText": "The point I am trying to make is, however, that it is not normal for a new business to have a chief executive in place for only a few months. What was the business plan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1410.0,
      "ContributionID": 624209,
      "EditedText": "There was no understanding with Mr McConnell—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1412.0,
      "ContributionID": 624210,
      "EditedText": "Post-election?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1422.0,
      "ContributionID": 624215,
      "EditedText": "Okay. I will deal with Kevin Reid first, if I may. Kevin's father, John, has been a—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1428.0,
      "ContributionID": 624218,
      "EditedText": "Do you have any more questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1430.0,
      "ContributionID": 624219,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I have quite a few more. The question that I am driving at is this: do you have any other members of staff who are relatives either of politicians—Labour party or other party politicians—or of anyone else who is otherwise connected to the various political parties or politicians in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1451.0,
      "ContributionID": 624229,
      "EditedText": "I have only one question. Obviously, we are chiefly concerned with standards for MSPs at this stage. Did you receive advance information about any forthcoming statements to be made by the Scottish Administration?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1453.0,
      "ContributionID": 624230,
      "EditedText": "No. I must say that I was concerned when I heard, on the Saturday evening, the allegations made by The Observer that we had. I was extremely relieved to discover that the top-secret information that Kevin had passed on was in fact gleaned from the BBC."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1455.0,
      "ContributionID": 624231,
      "EditedText": "I will return to Jack McConnell and his appointment to Public Affairs Europe. You said that he was the best man for the job. You personally interviewed him and you were so pleased with his appointment that you put out a press release welcoming that appointment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1461.0,
      "ContributionID": 624234,
      "EditedText": "In a business sense, it was not the success that I had anticipated, but I must defend Jack McConnell, because he always acted professionally and he always acted in the best interests of Beattie Media or Public Affairs Europe, but he never compromised himself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624236",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1465.0,
      "ContributionID": 624236,
      "EditedText": "I have questions relating to MSPs and Mr McConnell.I am curious, because I read your website yesterday. On the front page it referred to Jack McConnell joining Public Affairs Europe on 2 April 1998. When I went to read, out of curiosity, what you were saying about Jack at that time, I found that the press release had been deleted. I find that curious, because the press release before the one relating to Jack and the one after were still there. Can you explain why Jack McConnell's press release was removed from your website?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1467.0,
      "ContributionID": 624237,
      "EditedText": "I do not know anything about that; I am sorry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624239",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1471.0,
      "ContributionID": 624239,
      "EditedText": "I would like to turn to the events after the meeting, to the letter that was sent on 31 August to Anthony James and signed by Alex Barr. Were you consulted about that, or did Mr Barr and Mr Reid deal with it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624240",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1473.0,
      "ContributionID": 624240,
      "EditedText": "I believe that a copy of the letter was put on my desk for my information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1477.0,
      "ContributionID": 624242,
      "EditedText": "I read the letter, and from it I assumed that we had a client who was pressing us to do things that we were uneasy about, and what Alex Barr was doing was drawing a line in the sand and stating very clearly what Beattie Media's public affairs arm was prepared to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1485.0,
      "ContributionID": 624246,
      "EditedText": "No. May I tell you what really happened?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1493.0,
      "ContributionID": 624250,
      "EditedText": "With regard to Jack McConnell, Alex has already told you about his approach. There are times when we approach MSPs, MPs and ministers on behalf of clients for MSPs, ministers and MPs to participate in photo calls. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that because it is up to the minister, the MP or the MSP whether he or she accepts those invitations. Most of the time, we prefer our clients to make the approach themselves. We will write the letter if they want—we will draft it—but we prefer our clients to do it. Sometimes, time does not allow for that and occasionally we will make a direct approach, but I believe that it is much better if the approach comes from our client.At the end of the day, there is a big difference between asking you, Dr Simpson, as an MSP, to come to a photo call, and us having any influence over you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624257",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1507.0,
      "ContributionID": 624257,
      "EditedText": "On procedures?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624265",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1524.0,
      "ContributionID": 624265,
      "EditedText": "But Alex was actually taking the lead in this, if you look at the—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624267",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1528.0,
      "ContributionID": 624267,
      "EditedText": "Okay, but the point I wanted to make before I picked up that last one was that I had not got an answer about Christina Marshall. She is relevant because she works for Mr McConnell and she worked for Beattie Media. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624268",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1530.0,
      "ContributionID": 624268,
      "EditedText": "She was recruited by me as an assistant to my PA. She came on board and she was absolutely excellent, so much so that my events team pinched her from me. I have a very good events team—we do well over 100 events a year—and they asked if they could have her because her administrative skills were superb. She joined the events team and I have to say that I was terribly disappointed to lose her to Jack McConnell."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624269",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1532.0,
      "ContributionID": 624269,
      "EditedText": "The relevance, Adam, is the point after she left that employment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624274,
      "EditedText": "That is not how it happened."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624277",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1548.0,
      "ContributionID": 624277,
      "EditedText": "You were approached by—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624278",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624278,
      "EditedText": "By a former SNP defence spokesman."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624281",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1556.0,
      "ContributionID": 624281,
      "EditedText": "Have you had any contact, or have you made any contact, with any current MSP with an offer to employ them using their contacts on behalf of lobbyists and clients?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624284",
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      "ID": 3473
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
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      "EditedText": "No."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624290",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1574.0,
      "ContributionID": 624290,
      "EditedText": "On the second page of the letter from Beattie Media of 31 August, it says:\"It would be both unprofessional and immoral for any public affairs consultancy to promise access to ministers\".That was the position of your firm at that time, long before this story broke. Does that remain your position today?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624294",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "What is the view of the rest of the committee?"
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    "ID": "C624295",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624295,
      "EditedText": "Would it be helpful—"
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624296,
      "EditedText": "Please give me a steer. Do you want me to do that or not?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624297",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1588.0,
      "ContributionID": 624297,
      "EditedText": "What would the purpose be?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624298",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1590.0,
      "ContributionID": 624298,
      "EditedText": "I want to know what further information Dean Nelson expected to obtain, or how he intended to amplify his story, in view of the fact that he had received this letter stating quite clearly the position of Beattie Media."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624299",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1592.0,
      "ContributionID": 624299,
      "EditedText": "The committee took a decision to proceed based on the video and transcript—Richard was not involved at that stage. I am concerned about where we are going with this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624303",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1600.0,
      "ContributionID": 624303,
      "EditedText": "Having just joined the committee, I was not party to your initial discussions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624304",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1602.0,
      "ContributionID": 624304,
      "EditedText": "Anybody who wishes to make a comment in writing to the committee, on anything that has arisen in this meeting, should please do so.That closes item 1. I propose that we suspend the meeting for 30 minutes before we move on to item 2."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624305",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624305,
      "EditedText": "I wish to make a point before we do that. When I prepared my line of questioning for Mr Beattie, it became obvious that I had a narrow remit. The transcript raises issues of public concern regarding, in particular, public agencies, Scottish Enterprise and local enterprise companies. It would be in order for this committee to refer investigation of that part of the evidence to the appropriate committee, which, I believe, is the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. I hope that this committee will recommend that the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee investigate those matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624308",
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      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624310",
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    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1615.0,
      "ContributionID": 624310,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on, a number of us have been approached by members of the media about the information and statements that were given to us by The Observer and by Beattie Media. They have asked that those documents be released. Given that the documents are in the public domain, I can see no reason why we cannot make them available to the press as of now."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624311",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1617.0,
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      "EditedText": "If the rest of the committee is agreed, that is exactly what we will do. Thank you for that suggestion, Tricia. We will now move on to item 2."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624314",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1623.0,
      "ContributionID": 624314,
      "EditedText": "May I clarify that that will go back to the point at which Jack McConnell was appointed as a minister?"
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "I suggest, Mike, that it should be from his election to this Parliament."
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      "EditedText": "From 6 May."
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      "EditedText": "Are there any other points on Jack McConnell? What about his notebook?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "Ah, the notebook—the notebook that is alluded to in the correspondence that we have received, rather than in the transcript. In the transcript, the reference is quite clearly to a diary entry, but in the correspondence that we have received today, Jack, in a conversation with Dean Nelson, refers to a notebook entry. Perhaps the notebook would also be of interest to the committee."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "Karen referred specifically to Jack's ministerial and constituency diaries. If he has a private diary, can we request that he makes that, too, available to the committee?"
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      "EditedText": "I said that we could ask."
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      "ContributionID": 624327,
      "EditedText": "I have to say that Jack has written to us to assure us of his absolute co-operation with anything that we want to do. That is appreciated.Do members have any comments relating to other MSPs?"
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      "EditedText": "Is that accepted?Members indicated agreement."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1659.0,
      "ContributionID": 624332,
      "EditedText": "Kenny MacAskill was mentioned; it would be a good idea for the committee clerk to write to him to ask whether he did indeed receive a phone call from Kevin Reid, as was mentioned in the transcript."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1663.0,
      "ContributionID": 624334,
      "EditedText": "I strongly agree with what Des McNulty has just said. I do not think that we should go down that avenue, both because it is not competent and because no suggestions of impropriety have been made."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1667.0,
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      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is competent for us to invite Lord Macdonald to appear before the committee. Is it?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1691.0,
      "ContributionID": 624348,
      "EditedText": "And public—"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "Of course. Thank you."
    },
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    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623967",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 923.0,
      "ContributionID": 623967,
      "EditedText": "It highlights the fact that Kevin Reid is John Reid's son, an issue that Kevin himself brought up."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "We can ask the witness later on, Tricia. Are there any more questions? Mr Barr, thank you very much for coming to give us your evidence. It is appreciated."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "I welcome this opportunity to speak to the committee. For the past fortnight, I have been subject to sustained attacks on my integrity, often from those who have not read the full transcript of what took place on 31 August 1999. You have had the opportunity to see my remarks in full and in context. You will be aware that I was brought to the meeting and questioned under false pretences. I was told by The Observer journalist, posing as a businessman, that his client wished advice on the private finance initiative. That is what I had prepared for and is the basis on which I agreed to attend. You will also be aware from the transcript that, notwithstanding this, The Observer reporter constantly returned to the question of who I knew in Scottish politics and to the question of privileged access. I do not believe that there was impropriety in saying, in answer to a direct question, who I knew in politics as well as what I knew. What would have been wrong would have been to suggest that that knowledge would be used to obtain privileged access. Not only did I not say that; I said exactly the opposite. I stated:\"I'm not going to come here and promise you access to people. I wouldn't do that. I can't promise you anything. I can tell you my background and who I know, and I can tell you about the Scottish political environment\".So that there could be no ambiguity, I repeated that again, later in the meeting, after describing who I knew. Newspapers quoted me as saying:\"I know the Secretary of State very, very well, because he's my father.\"In fact—as you know from the transcript—what I actually said was:\"I know the Secretary of State very very well because he's my father, so I know him . . . but I'm not going to promise you access to people because of who I am and who I know.\"During the interview, far from promising privileged access, I explicitly rejected the overtures aimed at obtaining such a promise. That was made clear in writing in a letter sent on the same day, a copy of which you will have. Following a further letter from the bogus businessman, again hinting at access, I phoned him to say that we could not and would not take his business.Convener, members of the committee, I have always believed in the need for integrity in public affairs. I believe that a reading of the transcript shows that in the meeting I acted with propriety and at no stage promised or insinuated that I could gain privileged access to ministers or to MSPs. For the record, since I started working for Beattie Media, I have had no contact with any Scottish Executive minister, nor have I discussed Beattie Media business with any MSP or any member of the UK Government. I will be happy to answer any follow-up questions that you might have."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
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      "EditedText": "Who did you think that Mr Laurance represented?"
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      "EditedText": "I understood that it was a company called Commercial and Legal Services (UK) Ltd. He said that he represented a group of American investors."
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      "EditedText": "Was the meeting arranged through a telephone call, or through more formal communications?"
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      "EditedText": "Why did you and Alex Barr agree to the meeting?"
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      "EditedText": "When you heard that you had been secretly filmed and recorded from under the table, did it come as something of a shock to you?"
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      "EditedText": "No."
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      "EditedText": "Have you spoken to any special advisers on matters relating to your business?"
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      "EditedText": "Did you make contact with MSPs or ministers of the Executive on the telephone, by pager, or by letter in connection with the business of your company?"
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      "EditedText": "No, none at all."
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      "EditedText": "No. The work with those clients was just in the primary stages."
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    "ID": "C624014",
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      "EditedText": "It did not."
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  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624015",
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      "ContributionID": 624015,
      "EditedText": "In the transcript, you are quoted as saying that\"there shouldn't be a problem with meeting ministers, executive members\".In your view, how easy is it to arrange meetings with ministers of the Scottish Executive?"
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    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624017",
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      "ContributionID": 624017,
      "EditedText": "On page 6 of the transcript, you are quoted as saying that\"in the business of politics, you have a relationship, it makes things easier.\"Do you still believe that?"
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    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624019",
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      "EditedText": "Which of the special advisers are close personal friends of yours?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624023",
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      "EditedText": "The Observer has alleged that you had information about the financial statement on the two-year budget plan. Was that public knowledge when you mentioned it?"
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      "EditedText": "Page 11 of the transcript states: \"He . . . budgets over the next two years\"and then you make a few more remarks.Are you saying that that was not inside information?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624030,
      "EditedText": "If I have regret for anything I said during the meeting it is saying that that was pushed through. It was a consultation process, so it was not pushed through. I was just emphasising that it was the objective of one of Apco's clients; I did not mean to imply anything by it."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624031",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    "Committee": {
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
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      "EditedText": "When you said \"that was pushed through\", did you mean that your company had pushed it through?"
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      "EditedText": "On page 9, you are quoted as saying:\"He's done a couple of things for us in the last couple of months, hasn't he?\"It is a little more than a third of the way down the page. You said that, and I wonder what those two things were."
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      "EditedText": "Yes. That would have been incorrect."
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    "ID": "C624046",
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      "EditedText": "The question was about who it should be, based on the criteria that had been given to me. I wanted to know which minister would be appropriate. I was not saying that we could probably fix a meeting with Jack. I was saying that it would probably be Jack if we were talking about someone who deals with finance and PFI."
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      "EditedText": "I think that the phrase \"regular contact\" was used at some stage."
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      "EditedText": "By me?"
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      "EditedText": "No. I have not spoken to him since the election."
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      "EditedText": "When did you give a pager to Jack McConnell?"
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      "EditedText": "When did you last page him on it?"
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    "ID": "M2056E57P84C624063",
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      "EditedText": "Would I be right in saying that, in the main, your lobbying has concerned Scotland and events within Scotland?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624077",
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      "EditedText": "What does your work entail?"
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    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624079",
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      "EditedText": "In the meeting, you described your role on the public affairs side of the operation and Alex Thompson's role, which was mainly on the monitoring side. You were on the campaigning side. What were you campaigning on and to whom?"
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1160.0,
      "ContributionID": 624085,
      "EditedText": "How do you know how to advise people on contacting ministers and MSPs if you do not do it yourself?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624086",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1162.0,
      "ContributionID": 624086,
      "EditedText": "I did not advise people on how to contact ministers. I give them the address of the Scottish Parliament and I advise them on the text of what they do and what sort of information to send, not where that information is to go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C624090",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1170.0,
      "ContributionID": 624090,
      "EditedText": "I cannot speak for anyone else, or for their words. I can only come here and defend what I have said."
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624091",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
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      "EditedText": "Okay."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624094",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1178.0,
      "ContributionID": 624094,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of points that I would like to raise for the purposes of clarification. On Jack's pager number, was Jack, to your knowledge, on the same pager system as all other Labour party candidates?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624096",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1182.0,
      "ContributionID": 624096,
      "EditedText": "So that would be an 0181 345 6789 number, followed by a code?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624097",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624097,
      "EditedText": "The only difference was that the call sign was different."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624105",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1200.0,
      "ContributionID": 624105,
      "EditedText": "Please do."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624106",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1202.0,
      "ContributionID": 624106,
      "EditedText": "In the transcript that has been given to us by the clerks, there is a reference to Helen Liddell, MP. I must declare that I worked for Helen Liddell previously as her personal assistant in Airdrie. Can I clarify what was said in relation to both Helen and Lord Macdonald? In relation to the comments about Federal Express, the clerks' transcript adds: \"Well . . . Helen moved across to energy side\".In relation to the Federal Express announcement, there is an implication, Kevin, in the transcript, that Beattie Media was able to influence Lord Macdonald's decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624108",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1206.0,
      "ContributionID": 624108,
      "EditedText": "Can I clarify this point? You said:\"It's Lord MacDonald now at transport . . . that was very very useful because Fed Ex were going to pull out . . . that was the bottom line . . . they weren't going to get the deal\".The inference to be drawn from the transcript is that because of your involvement, Fed Ex got the deal. I want to know whether you had any direct contact on this issue with either Helen Liddell or with Gus Macdonald."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624109",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "No. I did not speak to either of them. Can I explain what I said? I was explaining that it was \"very very useful\" because Fed Ex was going to pull out. The decision was very, very useful to Scotland and also useful from a Beattie Media point of view in relation to Apco. I was interrupted and asked who the minister was. I said that the minister was Lord Macdonald and that was \"very very useful\". If you read on from my previous comment you will see that I did not mean that Lord Macdonald was very, very useful. I just meant that the decision was useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C624111",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "No."
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  {
    "ID": "C624113",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "ContributionID": 624113,
      "EditedText": "I was not very happy because I am relatively inexperienced in the commercial sense and it was unusual for me to be in a situation where I was constantly being asked who I know and what access I could provide. I wanted immediately to write a letter to clarify what we had said and that this was not what we were about. I was unhappy with the nature of the meeting, because I felt that the questioning was aggressive. I was trying to answer the questions as honestly as I could—I was answering the questions as honestly as I could—but I still felt that we needed to write to the guy to confirm that that was not what we were about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624114",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1218.0,
      "ContributionID": 624114,
      "EditedText": "Mr Barr indicated in his evidence that the letter of 31 August was written on the same day as the meeting. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624117",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1224.0,
      "ContributionID": 624117,
      "EditedText": "It was in there because we spoke about it after leaving the meeting. I was also telephoned by Alex Barr's personal assistant, who read the letter out to me. I asked for other things to be added. I asked to be added that we would not commence any work until we had received further clarification and more transparency as to the identity of the company. That was in the code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624119",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ContributionID": 624119,
      "EditedText": "I asked for that to be added."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4690169+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624123",
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      "ID": 3473
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    "Committee": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
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      "EditedText": "No, Loch Lomond project had contact. Beattie Media did not."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C624125",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1240.0,
      "ContributionID": 624125,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is the client."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1250.0,
      "ContributionID": 624130,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1257.0,
      "ContributionID": 624133,
      "EditedText": "At what stage in the process did you or your colleagues feel that this might not be a real company, doing what it purported to do?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1267.0,
      "ContributionID": 624138,
      "EditedText": "No, I am not saying that. I did not speak to Jackie Baillie and I did not have any input into arranging meetings or talking to her. However, I did sit at a meeting at which we considered what we should do and decided to put in writing what we were doing on various fronts. We left it at that. I was not involved in arranging meetings with Jackie Baillie or in meeting her, but I was present at a meeting at which we discussed what the public affairs strategy should be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624142",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1275.0,
      "ContributionID": 624142,
      "EditedText": "Alex Barr made the comment; I told you my understanding of what he meant by it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624143",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1277.0,
      "ContributionID": 624143,
      "EditedText": "Okay. The statement that you made that you are not going to promise access to people is followed by a whole list of people who are your special friends. If you are not going to provide contact with people, why on earth do you start mentioning people such as Brian Fitzpatrick and Jack and Wendy and Henry and Donald?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624147",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1285.0,
      "ContributionID": 624147,
      "EditedText": "As you know, you also say: \"I'm not going to promise you access to people because of who I am and who I know.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1289.0,
      "ContributionID": 624149,
      "EditedText": "The previous paragraph is about how friendly you are with Chris Winslow and how you are personal friends and how you have worked for Jack and for Wendy, Henry and Donald on a one-to-one basis. You finish that off by saying that in the business of politics, if you have a relationship, \"it makes things easier.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1293.0,
      "ContributionID": 624151,
      "EditedText": "So you are saying on the one hand, \"We cannae promise you access,\" but on the other hand you then highlight all those people to a potential client and say, \"Nod nod, wink wink, I actually know these folk so we're all right.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1305.0,
      "ContributionID": 624157,
      "EditedText": "No. What special qualifications do you think you had that caused Beattie Media to employ you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624159",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1309.0,
      "ContributionID": 624159,
      "EditedText": "You do not have to answer the question, Mr Reid, if you do not wish to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624161",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kevin Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1313.0,
      "ContributionID": 624161,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether this is relevant to the inquiry, but my comment was specific to Labour. I was saying that I felt that, at the start of the new Parliament—when a large number of the MSPs are new to a Parliament, and a large number of the members of the Executive have not been in an Executive before—it would not be unfair to say that there was inexperience. We are all inexperienced with the Scottish Parliament; we are all learning. To say that they are No 2s is merely to say that a large number of people in the Labour party at Westminster decided not to stand in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624168",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1327.0,
      "ContributionID": 624168,
      "EditedText": "I will allow Mr Beattie to continue. He has accepted our invitation to come here and has been given five minutes in which to make a statement. Please continue, Mr Beattie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1344.0,
      "ContributionID": 624176,
      "EditedText": "No, I have not been. I have not spoken to Jack about any business regarding the Scottish Parliament since his election. From what I can gather from my staff—and I have spoken to many of them who might have been in a position to speak to him—they have not either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624181",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1354.0,
      "ContributionID": 624181,
      "EditedText": "Is it still trading?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624182",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1356.0,
      "ContributionID": 624182,
      "EditedText": "We pulled out of the venture when Mr McConnell—quite rightly—resigned when he was selected to be a Labour party candidate."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624184",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1360.0,
      "ContributionID": 624184,
      "EditedText": "I have to admit that people have said that I have the Midas touch, but I did not have it with Public Affairs Europe. We launched the company far too early. No businesses were showing an interest in getting public affairs advice for the Scottish Parliament. It was a bad business venture. We had no clients."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624187",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1366.0,
      "ContributionID": 624187,
      "EditedText": "Regarding Mr McConnell's appointment, can you give details of what business opportunities you had identified which Mr McConnell could realise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1370.0,
      "ContributionID": 624189,
      "EditedText": "How did you assess the skills and attributes that Mr McConnell was bringing to that task?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624190",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1372.0,
      "ContributionID": 624190,
      "EditedText": "Mr McConnell came from a political background, and I judged his abilities to be essential to the role of chief executive of Public Affairs Europe. I would like to take this opportunity to say that he was not recruited because of his potential, as has been suggested. I refer the committee to the fact that we had no idea whether Mr McConnell would be selected, never mind elected. History will show that he only got in by the skin of his teeth as the candidate for Motherwell and Wishaw."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1376.0,
      "ContributionID": 624192,
      "EditedText": "I can tell you categorically that Jack McConnell would never abuse any contacts that he has, on behalf of Beattie Media or our clients, and I can tell you categorically that he always acted in the most highly professional manner—as one would expect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1380.0,
      "ContributionID": 624194,
      "EditedText": "Let me put it this way—if you were going into court, you would be well advised to have a lawyer representing you, because a lawyer has skills, abilities and talents that I could not provide, were you to ask me to represent you. When one starts a public affairs company, that is not done with someone who knows nothing about politics.I have no interest in politics. I never read the political pages of any newspaper. I therefore needed someone in charge of the public affairs division who knew the political scene in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624199",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1390.0,
      "ContributionID": 624199,
      "EditedText": "Members should remember in their questioning that we are examining the conduct of MSPs after their election."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624203",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1398.0,
      "ContributionID": 624203,
      "EditedText": "That was a possibility. He might still have been with us had the recount gone the other way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624205",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1402.0,
      "ContributionID": 624205,
      "EditedText": "The business plan was to establish a very good public affairs company. That was the aim. As I say, there was nothing guaranteed, as far as Mr McConnell was concerned. He may have had ambitions. A lot of people in the political arena have ambitions to become elected representatives. Very few of them actually succeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1408.0,
      "ContributionID": 624208,
      "EditedText": "What I am asking is whether Mr Beattie had some sort of understanding with Mr McConnell."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1424.0,
      "ContributionID": 624216,
      "EditedText": "I remind you, Mr Beattie, that you do not have to answer this line of questioning. I have made it clear that we are concentrating on MSPs' behaviour. However, if you wish to continue, please do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624220",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1432.0,
      "ContributionID": 624220,
      "EditedText": "Not that I know of. I have to say that I do not ask people whom I recruit who their daddy is. That is not part of our recruitment policy. However, I can tell you that, in the past, I have employed, for instance, Terry Houston. Terry Houston went on to edit the SNP's newspaper, but I at no time knew what Terry Houston's background was—politically, I mean. The issue was never raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624221",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1434.0,
      "ContributionID": 624221,
      "EditedText": "Let us move on to look at this whole transcript. One implication of it might be that what your two employees were trying to put across was that Beattie Media had a unique selling point for any clients, which was based on two factors. One factor was a widespread and wide-ranging network of contacts within organisations such as Scottish Enterprise and local enterprise companies, mainly in the central belt of Scotland, so that your company was well placed to have early intelligence on major business development and construction projects that were coming up. The uniqueness of the combination was that your company also had ready access to Labour politicians who were in positions of power and influence in local authorities, the Scottish Executive and, indeed, the Scotland Office.That is the implication that can be taken from the transcript. Can you flesh out both sides of it for me. Do you use your public relations contracts to gather early intelligence on construction?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624222",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1437.0,
      "ContributionID": 624222,
      "EditedText": "Of course we do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624223",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1439.0,
      "ContributionID": 624223,
      "EditedText": "You do not have a database, for example, which contains that type of information?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624224",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
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      "EditedText": "No, we do not. I am proud to say that Beattie Media has a number of local enterprise companies as clients. We have a number of other public sector clients, including health boards and other organisations.When any client appoints Beattie Media, confidentiality is our watchword. We have been in business for 14 years, and there has never been a breach of confidentiality. We release information that we are given only when the client says that it can go into the public arena. We would never consider breaching that trust."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624226",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
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      "EditedText": "I have a copy of the letter that went to Sam Galbraith from Roger Mitchell in my file. We did not contact him. We did not contact Henry McLeish. We did not contact Jackie Baillie and we did not contact Lord Macdonald."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624235",
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      "ID": 169
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1463.0,
      "ContributionID": 624235,
      "EditedText": "Tricia, can I ensure that your question will relate to the conduct of MSPs?"
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  {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1469.0,
      "ContributionID": 624238,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.4846412+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624241",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1475.0,
      "ContributionID": 624241,
      "EditedText": "So at that stage you were not aware of any particular concerns that were being expressed quite strongly in the letter?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624245",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1483.0,
      "ContributionID": 624245,
      "EditedText": "At the point that you decided to withdraw because you felt that the relationship, or the potential relationship, with this businessman who was subsequently discovered to be mythical was not one that you wanted to follow, did you have any suspicions that you were the subject of a sting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624247",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1487.0,
      "ContributionID": 624247,
      "EditedText": "Please do."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C624248",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1489.0,
      "ContributionID": 624248,
      "EditedText": "Two weeks ago today, I was at Glasgow airport to catch a flight for a three-week holiday in Florida. I arrived in Florida only to get a phone call to say, \"You have to come back right away.\" Had I, at all, been suspicious that we had been stung by a newspaper, I would not have gone to Florida."
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624249",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1491.0,
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      "EditedText": "Finally, you said—and I want to be quite clear about this—that to your knowledge neither your firm nor anyone in it had had any direct contact with ministers to get things into their diary, to brief them or to arrange meetings."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C624251",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1495.0,
      "ContributionID": 624251,
      "EditedText": "You said just a minute ago—correct me if I am wrong—that you have contact with MSPs, ministers and the like. Who in your organisation is responsible for the contacts with MSPs and ministers?"
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    "ID": "C624252",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Beattie: ",
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      "EditedText": "It varies. For instance, one of our teams was recently doing a nurse of the year award. It was that team which approached an MSP—I cannot recall her name, but she had a nursing background—to come and present the award, which she was happy to do. That approach was made by that particular team. Beattie Media has probably about 20 teams in total. Approaches can be made by any of those teams. It is important to stress that it is the public relations teams, not the public affairs teams, which are making those approaches. It is for photo calls. It is not a matter of us having any influence whatsoever over an MP, MSP or minister—we do not."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624254",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1501.0,
      "ContributionID": 624254,
      "EditedText": "Tricia, can I stop you on that question? I would like to move on from that point."
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  {
    "ID": "C624256",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
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      "EditedText": "My solicitor would like to raise a point."
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  {
    "ID": "C624266",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1526.0,
      "ContributionID": 624266,
      "EditedText": "As I said to Des McNulty, I think, in hindsight, that it was a mistake for me not to have been there."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624270",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1534.0,
      "ContributionID": 624270,
      "EditedText": "Was she Jack McConnell's secretary during her time at Beattie Media?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624273",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1540.0,
      "ContributionID": 624273,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify one thing? It is suggested in the transcript that you were happy for Christina Marshall to be almost \"placed\" with Jack McConnell, subsequent to—"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624276",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1546.0,
      "ContributionID": 624276,
      "EditedText": "Kevin Reid. I was also approached by an individual who was at one time an SNP defence spokesman."
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  {
    "ID": "C624282",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
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      "EditedText": "No. That would not be proper."
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    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624283",
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      "EditedText": "So the answer is no, or none?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624285",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "On the appointment of Christina Marshall, Mr Beattie, I want to clarify that you do not agree with the assertion—made by your member of staff—that you were happy to let her go and that she was, basically, placed with Jack McConnell?"
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1568.0,
      "ContributionID": 624287,
      "EditedText": "So you do not agree with the statements made by your employees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1570.0,
      "ContributionID": 624288,
      "EditedText": "No. I do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Beattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1576.0,
      "ContributionID": 624291,
      "EditedText": "Well, yes, but we do not have a public affairs division any more; we have closed it completely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1580.0,
      "ContributionID": 624293,
      "EditedText": "I would quite like to ask Mr Dean Nelson to come back and speak to us on the specific issue of the letter of 31 August, which the company received from Beattie Media."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1598.0,
      "ContributionID": 624302,
      "EditedText": "At the beginning of the meeting we agreed to conduct this inquiry in a particular order, and I do not wish to change what has been agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 624307,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
      "HeadingID": 18730,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1613.0,
      "ContributionID": 624309,
      "EditedText": "We have used the lunch break to consult our advisers informally, and we now move straight to item 2 on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
      "HeadingID": 18730,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1619.0,
      "ContributionID": 624312,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we take each of the MSPs concerned and decide what information we want from them. If we start with Jack McConnell, I suggest that we would want to see Jack's ministerial diary and any constituency diaries that are kept on his behalf by any of his staff, based either in the Parliament or in his constituency office in Wishaw. As the transcript alludes to the possible influence that individuals have on ministers taking up engagements, I would also be interested in seeing invitations that the minister accepted and the appropriate associated paperwork—if that is available to us within the confines of commercial confidentiality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1621.0,
      "ContributionID": 624313,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
      "HeadingID": 18730,
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      "ID": 18730,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1629.0,
      "ContributionID": 624317,
      "EditedText": "That is what I was trying to clarify."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C624322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
      "HeadingID": 18730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1612.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18730,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1639.0,
      "ContributionID": 624322,
      "EditedText": "I want to follow up Karen's point on asking about Jack's attendance at various events to which he was invited. As a cross-check, we will require a list of Beattie Media clients."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
      "HeadingID": 18730,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1641.0,
      "ContributionID": 624323,
      "EditedText": "I will ask the clerk to request that from Beattie Media."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C624325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1645.0,
      "ContributionID": 624325,
      "EditedText": "I assume that we can ask him to, but I do not think that any individual is under an obligation to give us their private diaries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C624330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18730,
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      "ID": 18730,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1655.0,
      "ContributionID": 624330,
      "EditedText": "The other two ministers who were mentioned were Henry McLeish and Jackie Baillie. I suggest that we obtain a note from them on the Loch Lomond project, any green folder associated with that, any briefings that they might have received from any person connected with the project, and any contact or materials that they received from Beattie Media in relation to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C624333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
      "HeadingID": 18730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1612.0,
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      "ID": 18730,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1661.0,
      "ContributionID": 624333,
      "EditedText": "For the avoidance of any doubt, we should buttress the fact that we do not have jurisdiction over Sam Galbraith's activities before he became a minister, by saying that there is no evidence to indicate that anything inappropriate occurred. This is not simply a question of not overstepping an administrative boundary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624337",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1669.0,
      "ContributionID": 624337,
      "EditedText": "It is the same situation as with Sam Galbraith."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C624342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
      "HeadingID": 18730,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1679.0,
      "ContributionID": 624342,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624343",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1681.0,
      "ContributionID": 624343,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone now happy that the documents that we will request the clerks to make available are sufficient?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624345",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documents ",
      "HeadingID": 18730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1612.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1685.0,
      "ContributionID": 624345,
      "EditedText": "Indeed. We will receive a report from the clerk on the material that we have just requested. I suggest that we meet again on Monday 25 October at 2 pm. That will give the clerking team, with its advisers, sufficient time to examine all the material."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:08.5002672+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C624347",
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 1689.0,
      "ContributionID": 624347,
      "EditedText": "Everybody is agreed that we need a swift, thorough, comprehensive—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623508",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Friday 8 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18728,
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:33"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 623511,
      "EditedText": "Our first agenda item is the taking of evidence in relation to our inquiry into allegations reported in The Observer newspaper. We have invited the following persons to attend and give evidence to the committee: Dean Nelson of The Observer, Ben Laurance of The Observer, Alex Barr of Beattie Media, Kevin Reid of Beattie Media and Gordon Beattie of Beattie Media.To clarify our procedure, I want to hear members' views on whether we should invite witnesses to give evidence one by one or in some other way, and whether the order of appearance of witnesses should be as I have suggested."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
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      "EditedText": "What were the arrangements? Why did he attend? I would like details and substantiation of the claims that were made in the transcript regarding named politicians and staff. I would also like an explanation of the business methods that were used and of the contacts programme that is mentioned in the transcript. What is his attitude towards regulation of lobbying activities, because that is mentioned in the transcript as well?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623530",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 623530,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but is Karen Gillon's last question within our remit?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623533",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 623533,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask questions arising out of what is recorded in the transcript and to follow those through."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623535",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 623535,
      "EditedText": "I would like to remind everyone present at today's meeting that the witnesses have come before the committee by invitation. Although I expect that they will wish to co-operate as fully as possible with our inquiry, they cannot be compelled to answer any question. In accordance with the committee's wishes, I will require all witnesses to take the oath or to make an affirmation. Only witnesses will be able to respond to questions put by committee members. However, witnesses' advisers will be able to confer with and advise them. Advisers cannot address the committee directly, unless invited to do so by me. Witnesses should, therefore, indicate to me if their adviser wishes to address the committee—for example, on a matter of procedure.I invite Mr Nelson to come forward. Good morning, Mr Nelson."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623540",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 623540,
      "EditedText": "It is.First, I would like to say thank you to all the members of the committee for inviting us here today and giving us an opportunity to present our evidence to you. I will now read out the statement.The Observer's investigation into lobbyists began after we were contacted by concerned politicians. They had been offended by approaches from lobbying companies, which had offered them employment that would involve using their contacts on behalf of lobbyists' clients. The politicians to whom we spoke were concerned that the lobbying industry posed a threat to the new Parliament.At that time, there were rumours that Beattie Media, the firm that claimed to have the industry's highest standards, had hired Kevin Reid, a Labour party employee and the son of the Secretary of State for Scotland, John Reid. That story subsequently proved to be true. It had been suggested to us that Reid had no relevant experience and had been hired only because of his family connections. We decided to investigate the firm, to test whether it really had such high standards, and whether Kevin Reid would use his father's name to win contracts.We could see only two possible ways to proceed. We could talk to former members of staff, or we could use subterfuge, inviting Beattie Media to pitch for a contract and witnessing their methods at first hand. The former was not possible, as the company was new to lobbying.The use of subterfuge is not undertaken lightly. The Press Complaints Commission's code of practice states that it can only be used\"in the public interest and only when material cannot be obtained by any other means.\"The suggestion made to us that Beattie Media was using Kevin Reid's family connections to win business clearly deserved investigation. At that stage, we were not particularly concerned about Jack McConnell's previous association with the firm.We invited Beattie Media to meet a businessman whose identity we created. Letters were exchanged, and a meeting was arranged at the Balmoral Hotel in Edinburgh, on 31 August 1999. The meeting was filmed with a hidden camera.The results of our investigations were published in The Observer on 26 September and 3 October, and we assume that members of this committee have read that material. Our findings included the following: that Beattie Media had claimed that it had been able to place an appointment in the Minister for Finance's diary; that Beattie Media's comments, taken in conjunction with information from within the Executive, had suggested that the firm had information about the forthcoming finance statement which was not public knowledge; that Beattie Media had claimed that it remained in regular contact with Jack McConnell, a former employee—which is denied by Mr McConnell, although Beattie Media has declined to confirm that Mr McConnell's assertion is true; and that, in pitching for business, Kevin Reid had volunteered that he was the son of the secretary of state and emphasised his close personal contacts with a number of special advisers in the Scottish Executive.Clearly, it is for the Standards Committee and it alone to decide avenues of investigation. However, we respectfully suggest that there are several unanswered questions, which fall under five headings.The first is the Minister for Finance's diaries. How many are there, and what do they contain? In which diary did Christina Marshall pencil in the appointment? On which note-pad, according to Jack McConnell, is the invitation recorded?The second is the degree to which Kevin Reid has maintained and been able to use his contacts with former Labour party colleagues who are now working in the Government.The third is the significance of Kevin Reid's knowing, on 31 August, that Mr McConnell was planning a two-year budget.The fourth is the wisdom or otherwise of having individuals moving from lobbying into Government, either in an elected post or as an employee of an elected politician.The last is the degree to which Alex Barr and Kevin Reid were simply lying during the Balmoral meeting. Mr Barr has admitted to nothing more than exaggeration.The committee has already received a copy of the tape of the Balmoral meeting and a transcript of that meeting. With this statement today, we are submitting collated material concerning Mr McConnell's diaries. The statements made by different parties at different times appear to be inconsistent with each other. We are submitting a brief summary of material that I gathered between 24 September and 4 October regarding a possible leak of information from the financial statement, and a list of four questions that were put to Gordon Beattie of Beattie Media on 30 September, which he declined to answer.We have conducted our investigation and we have handed over the material that we have collated to you. We are delighted to do so—we pass it on to you to take it further. We wish you all the best with that, and offer you every support in that task. Thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623542",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 623542,
      "EditedText": "My first question, Dean, is: did you have advance knowledge of the meeting between Ben Laurance and the staff of Beattie Media?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623545",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 623545,
      "EditedText": "As soon as the meeting was concluded I met Ben, we had a discussion, and I had another look at the tape on a small digital machine. It was immediately after the meeting."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623551",
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      "ID": 3473
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "The intention was to go ahead and arrange a meeting. We left the meeting—or rather my colleague Ben Laurance left the meeting—with an understanding that the company would attempt to arrange a meeting with a minister from the Executive. So, at the end of the meeting, there was unfinished business."
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623554",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Can I be quite clear about this? In the transcript it says clearly that they said that they thought that they would be able to deliver a meeting with Jack McConnell within a month. Did you delay publication in the hope of having a confirmed date for a meeting with that minister in order to strengthen your story?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C623557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "ID": 169
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      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 623558,
      "EditedText": "And did they deliver?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
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    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623560",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 623560,
      "EditedText": "Can I pursue that a little further? At what point do you think that the company became suspicious and at what point did it indicate that it would no longer act for you?"
    },
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    "ID": "C623561",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 623561,
      "EditedText": "I believe that it was a few weeks after the meeting."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "My colleague might remember the date. The letter was sent to him."
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    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623566",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
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      "EditedText": "In your opening statement, you said that your investigation into lobbyists began after you were contacted by concerned politicians. Would you like to elaborate on who those concerned politicians were?"
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    "ID": "C623571",
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      "EditedText": "No."
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    "ID": "C623573",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 623573,
      "EditedText": "There were two factors in that decision. First, Beattie Media had made high-profile claims about having higher standards than everybody else. Secondly, there was the allegation that it had hired the Secretary of State for Scotland's son to trade on his contact with his father to win business. People said, \"Kevin Reid is a young man, not long out of university, he has no real experience of the world, yet he is stepping into Jack McConnell's shoes and doing a very high-powered job for which he can have no qualification other than his family connection.\"That pointed us towards Beattie Media in the first instance."
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      "EditedText": "Absolutely. There were two urgent things to do. One was to pursue a meeting with a member of the Executive, and the other was to do the transcript, which was a laborious task."
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    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623576",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
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      "EditedText": "But today you are saying that you were not successful in establishing that there had been wrongful conduct?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623578",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is fine, but I am trying to establish the fact that you attempted to demonstrate wrongful conduct but were not successful."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes—on Friday."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "EditedText": "So you had the information from 31 August—"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "There was a long process of doing the transcript. I do not know whether you have ever transcribed a tape. It is very difficult. On this particular tape, which members have now seen, there was a lot of background noise. There was an air conditioner. It was painstaking. There was also the process of getting the tapes filtered. We used a cameraman, Alistair Miller, who is based in Stirling. A lot of time was spent at his studio there, going through the tapes, filtering, filtering and filtering until we had a copy that we could do a decent transcript of. Then, we got another version done: we had the whole thing digitally filtered. That was crucial, to make sure that it was of the highest quality it could be, to get the best, most accurate transcript. That process went on. First, there was the meeting on 31 August. There was a gap—I cannot tell what that gap was; you will have to ask my colleague about that—for trying to fix a meeting with the minister. Then there was the moment when it became clear that the company had become suspicious, and called off our arrangement. From that moment, we began to look at publication. Then, work began in earnest on the transcripts: cleaning up the tapes. It was perhaps the Wednesday or the Thursday in the week prior to publication on Sunday 26 September when we got to the stage where we could discuss among ourselves how we would approach all the people who had been mentioned. There were some people within the Government who were aware of it on Thursday night; then we spoke directly and formally on the Friday."
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  {
    "ID": "C623600",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes. There are some transcripts of shorthand notes attached to the material that we e-mailed to you all at 8 o'clock last night, and in the hard copy that you received this morning. I can provide fuller transcripts of the interviews at a later stage."
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      "EditedText": "On that very point, Mr Nelson, you said that you telephoned Christina Marshall, Jack McConnell's secretary, on Friday 25 September. You claim that she said that she had told Beattie Media that she would pencil the engagement into the minister's diary for consideration. Your report of that goes on for three or four paragraphs. Did you tape that conversation?"
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      "EditedText": "No, I took a contemporaneous shorthand note."
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      "EditedText": "When you spoke to Christina Marshall, presumably you mentioned the fact that your previous conversation with representatives of Beattie Media had been taped?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "I do not think that I did. I said that I had spoken to Beattie Media, or rather that The Observer had spoken to Alex Barr, who had said that he had fixed up an appointment for Jack McConnell to speak at the finance director of the year award in February next year. Christina Marshall confirmed that she had had that conversation, that Alex Barr had called her and that she had pencilled it into the diary for Jack McConnell's consideration."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
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      "EditedText": "Can you explain how she reacted to the questions? Was she surprised?"
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "That would be a normal time span?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Were there any people to whom you could not get through?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Ben Laurance?"
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dean Nelson: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes, but you would have to check that with Ben.Beattie Media became aware of our investigation at a very early stage and put out a statement early on Saturday, before publication."
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      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
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      "EditedText": "No."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 623632,
      "EditedText": "Was there not some kind of backlash in the lobbying industry to the notion that Beattie Media had higher standards than other lobbying companies and to the fact that Beattie Media was taking a particular line on its standards in the media and with politicians?"
    },
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      "EditedText": "I think that the transcripts speak for themselves. It is clearly making claims of access to ministers, and of being able to put things in diaries, which the ministers deny. It has since wound up its lobbying arm and apologised for making certain claims. I do not think, on the face of it, that its standards are any higher. It is a matter for this committee to establish whether it falls somewhat below everybody else's standards."
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
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      "EditedText": "I have only one question. Mr Nelson has raised a lot of issues. Did I hear you correctly when you said that you are making no allegation of wrongful conduct by an MSP?"
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      "EditedText": "Thank you."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
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      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Mr Nelson. You are welcome to join the audience.I now move on to ask Mr Ben Laurance to come forward. Thank you very much for coming, Mr Laurance, and for accepting our invitation to attend and give evidence. I remind you that you are required to give evidence under oath. I understand that you want to take the oath.Ben Laurance (The Observer) took the oath."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "Good morning, Mr Laurance."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "Is this the kind of work that you had done before?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Laurance: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 623655,
      "EditedText": "Dean had written a letter to them, and a couple of phone calls had been exchanged between Kevin Reid and his assistant, Alex, on one hand, and the company that we were using, on the other. It was agreed that a meeting would be held between Anthony James and Mr Reid in Edinburgh, on 31 August. That was fixed up by Dean. The meeting took place. Shortly afterwards, I saw Dean and told him what had transpired. He was very surprised—and alarmed—to find that Jack McConnell's name had come up so frequently and had been used as part of the marketing pitch. The end of the transcript—which you are probably bored with reading—says that they were going to write to me, which they duly did. They wrote to me on 31 August, but, for some reason, the letter did not arrive. We asked them to fax us a copy of the letter, which they did. The letter gave a brief summary of the meeting. Under the name of Anthony James, I wrote back to them asking them to pursue matters and to arrange, as they had indicated at the end of the Balmoral meeting, a meeting for one of my clients from the States.I suspect—I do not have any firm evidence—that the handling of a phone call during that exchange of letters gave Beattie Media some concern. After that, I rang them on several occasions and they did not return my calls. Eventually, Kevin Reid rang back—on Thursday 16 September, I believe—and said that he would not be able to handle the job because they were snowed under with work. Over the next week, Dean and I began to get everything in order to publish the story. I am sorry to be so long-winded in answering your question. The original meeting was arranged to be between Kevin Reid and me; I was a bit surprised when two people arrived, rather than one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 18729,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 623659,
      "EditedText": "As a journalist, did you discuss what attempts had already been made? The decision was made—I quote from the statement made by The Observer—that, as \"subterfuge is not undertaken lightly\" it had to be in the public interest; that is,\"only when material cannot be obtained by any other means.\"You have described that as something that you have never done and which makes you very uncomfortable. I assume that you asked what material there was already, what information they had and what attempts had been made to discover more, following the code of practice. I want some background about the view of lobbying in Scotland in relation to that process. Had any names come up at that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623665",
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      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ID": 2182,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 623665,
      "EditedText": "Of course."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 623667,
      "EditedText": "Right. Thank you."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623668",
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      "ID": 3473
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
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      "EditedText": "Are there any more questions?Thank you for coming to give us your evidence, Mr Laurance. Perhaps you would like to rejoin the public gallery.We will adjourn for a short break."
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  {
    "ID": "C623669",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623682",
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      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623682,
      "EditedText": "I was sure—confident—that I would be able to convince the businessman that he should also consider PR as part of his strategy."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623683",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 623683,
      "EditedText": "You said in your statement that you assumed that that is what you were doing. Therefore, can I ask you to confirm that you were delivering a standard sales pitch, as can be evidenced from part of the video?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623684",
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      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
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      "EditedText": "It certainly started off as a standard sales pitch, as you will see from the transcript. However, it became obvious during the meeting that every time that I mentioned public relations, Mr James was not particularly interested and that was how he responded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623678",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "ID": 2140,
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    },
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      "EditedText": "Thank you. Karen, would you like to lead the questions?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 623679,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your statement, Mr Barr. You will be aware that the reason that the committee has decided to investigate further the matters raised with us by The Observer is that we have viewed the video of you, Mr Reid and Mr Laurance and have read the transcript. Can you tell us, initially, how the meeting with Ben Laurance was arranged?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623680",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "ID": 169
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes. I believe that Kevin received a telephone call asking for information on the public affairs service that we could provide with regard to someone who was interested in investing in private finance initiative projects in Scotland. The first I knew about the meeting was a couple of days beforehand. Gordon Beattie, our managing director, had said that he intended to accompany Kevin to the meeting to pitch for public relations work alongside any public affairs work that the fictitious client might be interested in. A couple of days beforehand, Gordon informed me that he had a conflict of diaries and asked me if I could attend. I also had a conflict of diaries but cancelled two meetings and attended the meeting with Kevin that morning."
    },
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      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
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      "EditedText": "Can you elaborate on why that was the case?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623689",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 623689,
      "EditedText": "Unless anyone has other questions on this introductory stage, I will move on to specific points.First, in relation to Jack McConnell, on the video that we watched, you say that you are in regular contact with Jack McConnell. Exactly what do you mean by that? Perhaps you could give us some recent, concrete examples of such contact—that is, examples since the elections on 1 May."
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      "ID": 3473
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 623691,
      "EditedText": "Can I confirm that in the transcript, you say that you yourself had regular contact with Jack McConnell—"
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "I think I say, \"we're in regular contact\"—"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "So you are not in regular contact with Jack McConnell?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623696",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 623696,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. Could you—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623698",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 623698,
      "EditedText": "Within Beattie Media, any new employee's details go on to a telephone list, so that we can contact them 24 hours a day. I have a pager. My home phone number and my mobile number are all on that list. It was under those circumstances that I was given those details."
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 623699,
      "EditedText": "When was the last time that that list was revised?"
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    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623701",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 623701,
      "EditedText": "But, specifically, in relation to Mr McConnell's details on your database, when was it revised?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623704",
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      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 623704,
      "EditedText": "No—sorry. It has been revised since Mr McConnell left the company several times. In relation to Mr McConnell, his name is no longer on the list. However, I have a contacts book that I use regularly and his details are in that contacts book. I have not used those numbers since he left."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623707",
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      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 623707,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8596608+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623708",
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      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 623708,
      "EditedText": "On that issue, you say that you speak to Jack regularly, that you can pick up the phone. You go on to say,\"as Kevin can, as Gordon can\"and \"I've got a contacts list. I'm lost today without it.\"Do you have your contacts list with you today?"
    },
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    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623710",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "Will the whole contacts list be made available to the committee?"
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  {
    "ID": "C623711",
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      "ID": 3473
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "You may look through it as you wish."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623712",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 623712,
      "EditedText": "You talked about a contacts strategy. Can you give the committee some indication of what a contacts strategy is?"
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  {
    "ID": "C623713",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "I do not know whether I referred specifically to a contacts strategy at the meeting."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623714",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "A contacts programme."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623718",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 623718,
      "EditedText": "You do not?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C623719",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
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      "EditedText": "No, I am sorry. I can easily speak to 40 or 50 people in a day."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623727",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ID": 1876,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 623727,
      "EditedText": "I think that Richard will find that we are on the page that starts\"with someone doesn't mean to say they're going to throw you a £200 million PFI project\".The passage comes in the second paragraph, under the first AB there.Mr Barr, you said that you managed to pick this up\"without the use of sound engineers, headphones or recording studios\".After the meeting at which we showed the tape and went through the transcript, I asked our clerks if they would also go through it and fill in the blanks. I must say that, without sound engineers, headphones or recording studios, they have not picked up the passage to which Mr Barr refers. They have not recorded it for me in the way in which they have done for practically every other page."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623729",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "I think that it is perfectly possible that not everything on the tape has been picked up, even though it has been gone through again. However, the clerks' transcript reads:\"It's the most transparent way to operate. We stress . . . that's the way we want to go . . . Can't be done like that.\"That is what it says in the clerks' transcript."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623731",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
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      "EditedText": "I understand the point that you are making, Mr Barr, but should that comment not be viewed in the context of the other statements that you made during the course of the meeting? You said that your company operates by putting clients in front of the politicians, and that your job, as a lobbyist, is to set up meetings for the clients, rather than to speak directly to the politicians. Essentially, you said that you were uniquely placed to do that because of your contacts with politicians. Are you not trying to put a red herring before the committee this morning?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "EditedText": "No, I certainly would not say that we are uniquely placed to do it. What I would say is that it is far more open and transparent if meetings are arranged and conducted by the clients themselves, having been given advice and guidance by us, rather than have lobbyists do it. That is by far the most open way."
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      "EditedText": "There were certainly some comments and questions that we responded to that did not refer to PR, but you will see that, throughout the transcript, I attempted to steer the conversation back to that."
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      "EditedText": "I put it to you that right up front, at the very start of the meeting, you stated:\"Prior to the election, we appointed Jack McConnell, who was previously General Secretary of the Labour party in Scotland to head up our public affairs consultancy, in the certain knowledge that Jack would get a safe seat from the Labour Party, and in the hope and expectation that he would also get a cabinet position within the new administration.\"Can you tell me how that relates to your concentration on PR?"
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      "EditedText": "It was unusual in that we were ostensibly pitching for public affairs work, and that is unusual."
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      "EditedText": "No. I have not done so since the election."
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      "EditedText": "Do you think that that was misleading?"
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      "EditedText": "As I have explained, at the time that I said it I believed that there was more contact between Jack as a former employee and other Beattie Media staff than there actually is. I was happy to have that clarified for me."
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      "EditedText": "The number looks like it is 0976 760 533."
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      "EditedText": "Sorry?"
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      "EditedText": "It is an important point, convener."
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      "EditedText": "I think that if you read on in the transcript, I said:\"She said, if you don't hear from me tomorrow it's in the diary; he'll do it.\" It was words to that effect, confirming that if I did not hear back from her, then I should assume that the appointment had been confirmed."
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      "EditedText": "Can I ask you roughly when this telephone conversation took place?"
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      "EditedText": "So did you hear back from Christina Marshall within two days?"
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      "EditedText": "So you are assuming that Mr McConnell is speaking at the finance director of the year award?"
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      "EditedText": "That was certainly my assumption before this started."
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      "EditedText": "Okay, you have not had any confirmation in writing to that effect but you are assuming from your telephone conversation with Christina Marshall that, if you did not hear back from her in two days, that was going to happen?"
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      "EditedText": "Are your clients under the assumption that Jack McConnell will speak at the finance director of the year awards?"
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      "EditedText": "Prior to 26 September?"
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      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Prior to this, I attended a meeting with them and explained the conversation I had had with him and that it was expected that he would give a speech."
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      "EditedText": "On the strength of a telephone conversation with an employee of a minister, you have confirmed with—I assume—a pretty high-profile client that the minister will be attending. Would it be embarrassing for your company if that was not the case?"
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      "EditedText": "I understand that, but is it the pattern that you would phone up the diary secretary or try to contact one of the staff of the MSP and ask them to pencil it in their diary? If they agree to that, that is fine."
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      "EditedText": "We would contact their office, either by telephone or by letter, extend an invitation and get confirmation back from them."
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      "EditedText": "So the only unusual thing was that because you knew Christina Marshall you were able to expedite this more quickly and with more confidence than you would normally?"
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      "EditedText": "I will bear that in mind.I would like to explore this a little further. You were responsible, I think, for handling the E coli investigation, which was the biggest investigation on the Beattie site. That was one of the achievements that Beattie highlighted: that it could handle the media from all over the world. Are you still suggesting that, when you went into that meeting with The Observer, your tongue ran away with you?"
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      "EditedText": "Is it not the case that, rather than this being a one-off, you saw yourself as being in a competitive business and you were selling what people would believe were your contacts in the Parliament to make them give you the contract?"
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      "EditedText": "No. It was only for one engagement, and that—to my knowledge—is the only time that I have spoken to Christina since she left Beattie Media."
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      "EditedText": "Why was that not done between the period of the telephone conversation and 26 September when The Observer published its article?"
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      "EditedText": "First, I was unaware that The Observer was going to write an article on us. Equally, the event itself does not take place until February. There were still some logistical arrangements to be made."
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      "EditedText": "My recollection is that it was Rangers v Beitar Jerusalem in a champions league pre-qualifying match at Ibrox stadium."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "What was the date of that match, roughly?"
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      "EditedText": "I think it was at the beginning of October last year."
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      "EditedText": "We are looking at the conduct of MSPs, who were elected in May."
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      "EditedText": "However, I would like to clarify a couple of points, because that would be in the interests of the Parliament and the MSPs."
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      "EditedText": "Of course. I am happy to do that."
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      "EditedText": "In the transcript, I say that \"we\" invited Sam Galbraith in the same way that the editor of The Observer spoke about \"we\". It meant the corporate we. I often refer to clients in that way."
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      "EditedText": "As I understand it from what you have said under oath at this meeting, you—Beattie Media—had no direct contact with the minister in relation to this invitation."
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      "EditedText": "It was my suggestion to my client."
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      "EditedText": "I understand that. It is very important to us that Beattie Media did not contact Mr Sam Galbraith, the sports minister, on any occasion, in relation to this invitation. Therefore, the claims that you made in the transcript were inaccurate."
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    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623849",
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      "EditedText": "I want to move on to the Loch Lomond project and to the two MSPs who are mentioned. One is Henry McLeish. In the transcript you say that\"we asked Henry McLeish if he'd come along and make the official presentation.\"\t  Who asked Henry McLeish?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "Let me get this quite clear: Beattie Media did not write the letter requesting a ministerial appearance with the golden eagle."
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      "EditedText": "Was Beattie Media responsible for the press release about it?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "So your clients, who need all the expertise that you can bring to them, had to write their own letter because you did not realise that one has to go through ministerial offices?"
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      "EditedText": "They may wish to exercise their right to send a letter on their behalf, or they may ask us to do it for them."
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      "EditedText": "You indicate in your discussion with Mr Laurance—and this is really following on from Tricia's comments—that it was as a direct result of your company's involvement that you were able to secure Mr McLeish at this event. It now transpires, from what you have said, that, again, the claim that you made to the person concerned was false."
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      "EditedText": "I am happy to admit that. Having said that, at the time I believed it to be the case."
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      "EditedText": "On that point, I amplify the fact that, in the previous part of the transcript it is Kevin who says that, but he turns to you and says: \"He's done a couple of things for us in the last couple of months, hasn't he?\""
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      "EditedText": "I am unaware of any other."
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      "EditedText": "I shall move on to Jackie Baillie. You hinted that there was a problem with the Loch Lomond project, and that it had to be sold in a particular way, so youbriefed Jackie Baillie on that as well."
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      "EditedText": "I have to say that I had no involvement in that. I think that those are Kevin's comments, not mine."
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      "EditedText": "Carry on."
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      "EditedText": "Can you explain your offer to facilitate face-to-face meetings between clients and the Executive, which is something that is in the transcript?"
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      "EditedText": "Could you point that out to me?"
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      "EditedText": "It carries on:\"What particular sector in terms of PFI because obviously it covers everything from education to health to transport\".The gentleman then continues. Kevin says:\"Probably Jack?\" You say: \"I would say so\" and it carries on into a discussion. Can you explain why you thought that you could offer a meeting between your clients and the Executive within a month?"
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      "EditedText": "Yet, at this point, when the man specifically asked you whether you believed that you would be able to facilitate a face-to-face meeting between his client and the Executive, you said that it would probably be possible within a month—despite having said that you could not guarantee that."
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      "EditedText": "Is that how you would normally go about things?"
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      "EditedText": "I do not see anything particularly wrong with it."
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      "EditedText": "As I say, in the context of a sales meeting, that was the answer that I gave to him."
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      "EditedText": "I have a couple of points to make about that, referring to the letter that you then wrote. Although you were indicating at that point that you thought that that was achievable, you then wrote in a letter, dated 31 August, that\"It would be both unprofessional and immoral for any public affairs consultancy to promise access to ministers, but what we can say is that due to the likely increase in the PFI market in Scotland, and hence the increasing public interest in the topic, it would be feasible to expect that politicians from all parties will welcome the opportunity to increase their knowledge of the sector and its ramifications\".I will not go on, but that gives the gist of it. I know that the firm has not been going all that long, but is that the normal pattern that you would adopt?"
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      "EditedText": "I am sorry—which restating?"
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      "EditedText": "But you are a director of the company."
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      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 850.0,
      "ContributionID": 623931,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but I work primarily and almost exclusively on the public relations side."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623933",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 854.0,
      "ContributionID": 623933,
      "EditedText": "On the advice of my solicitor, I should say that the letter that was written on 31 August was written in consultation with Kevin, who gave a public affairs input."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 858.0,
      "ContributionID": 623935,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify a couple of things that came out from the evidence of the people who spoke to us previously. In your view, why did Beattie Media pull out of the contract with those clients? Was it because you became suspicious, or was it because you could not deliver the meeting with the Executive within the time scale that you had said that you might be able to achieve?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623939",
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      "ID": 3473
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 867.0,
      "ContributionID": 623939,
      "EditedText": "Having passed a copy on to his desk, what response did you receive? Was there a discussion within the company about it?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623942",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 873.0,
      "ContributionID": 623942,
      "EditedText": "Surely. In the main, I believe, contact was made via clients. I will be able to give you examples of when Beattie Media has been directly involved. I will be glad to give you that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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    "Committee": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623946,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely not."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623949",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 887.0,
      "ContributionID": 623949,
      "EditedText": "My question has two parts. When did you become aware of the fact that this was a subterfuge?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623951",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3473
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 891.0,
      "ContributionID": 623951,
      "EditedText": "Friday evening on 24 September. Did you have any suspicions that this might be something or were there any discussions within the office?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C623953",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 895.0,
      "ContributionID": 623953,
      "EditedText": "As far as you were concerned, therefore, the decision to withdraw, the date of which has been given as 16 September by previous witnesses, was made on the basis that the client was asking for specific access to politicians and was not interested in the package that you were offering and that it was, therefore, not business for which you wanted to pitch."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.9065318+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623954",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 08 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3473
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      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Barr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 897.0,
      "ContributionID": 623954,
      "EditedText": "Precisely."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trond Haugen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 665331,
      "EditedText": "That is my opinion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 665332,
      "EditedText": "How considerable would those research projects have to be to give us the information that we need to reach a considered opinion on the subject?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 665338,
      "EditedText": "Trond mentioned franchising. Does he have a view on franchising versus the current deregulated system? I understand that franchising might provide a better contractual basis for local authorities to set standards and specifications. That would be of particular benefit to rural areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trond Haugen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 665339,
      "EditedText": "There is no doubt that the deregulated regime has increased fares to a large extent. It is often difficult for local authorities to add services under the current complex regulations. By franchising or through quality contracts, local authorities would have a say in fare levels, but they must also be prepared to put the money into services, because if the operators receive less income in fares, a greater part of the network will have to be supported. Franchising is, however, the way forward in terms of promoting social inclusion. Local concession schemes can be incorporated, avoiding complicated administrative arrangements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trond Haugen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 665342,
      "EditedText": "The first point about tenders as opposed to concessions is that this is the thinking behind the Transport Act 1985: local authorities should tender for services that are not commercially viable—and they do. In addition, the diagrams at the back of our presentation show that we indirectly support a network through the concession scheme, not just through tenders. If we take away the concession scheme, the network would contract. Theoretically, there should be no effect, but I am absolutely convinced that the effect on a network would be great. All local authorities have an extensive part of the network—between 10 and 70 per cent—directly supported through tenders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Hunter (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 665343,
      "EditedText": "Mr Tosh's second point was about the complexity of regulations, as was mentioned in the presentation. One aspect can be illustrated by a bus route from Edinburgh to Peebles. It now goes through three local authority areas, and the bus company may have to claim for concessionary travel from three different councils under three different schemes. One may be a flat fare; one may be a free fare. There may be different arrangements for season ticket journeys or for blind passengers. Making such claims is quite a job, as I am sure the Confederation of Passenger Transport and FirstGroup representatives will say later this morning. Other complexities are covered briefly, but succinctly, in the SPICe briefing, relating to the generation of travel. Councils discount the payments that they make to operators to take account of the journeys that are deemed to be taken because of the cheaper concessionary fare. Those lower levels have generated traffic—it gets pretty complex and arcane, and it varies between the schemes. Since 1996 in particular, when there have been more local authorities and more concessionary travel schemes, the degree of complexity and the variety between the schemes in different parts of the country has increased."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665344",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 665344,
      "EditedText": "I take the point about the increased variety causing difficulty, but where do the complexities pose a problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 665346,
      "EditedText": "If it is unproveable and unmeasurable, is there scope for us to examine it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trond Haugen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 665347,
      "EditedText": "A consultant has been appointed by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions specifically to examine the issue. A draft report has already been produced, which local authorities and operators will study in detail in due course."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 665351,
      "EditedText": "So there are schemes that we could examine in more detail, to determine how they might be translated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trond Haugen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 665352,
      "EditedText": "There are definitely schemes that involve legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 665363,
      "EditedText": "Are there annual negotiations with the 12 constituent authorities that work with you on the scheme? How does the committee that you are establishing to oversee the scheme work in practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 665354,
      "EditedText": "The issue of quality partnerships is separate from the notion of a national concessionary fare scheme. Quality partnerships  concern local arrangements to deliver better local bus services, rather than subsidising people to travel on those bus services. The two issues should be kept separate. Our position on quality partnerships was made clear in our response in the bus consultation paper. We were concerned that the consultation paper played down quality contracts in favour of quality partnerships. We felt that there should be a greater balance, and that there would be a need for quality contracts.We have no direct evidence on the FDR that would be needed. That would depend partly on the national concessionary scheme that was proposed and the groups that would be included. The evidence that we have from the national scheme for the blind, which was introduced in partnership with the operators on a voluntary basis, suggests that there will be additional costs, both to operators and to councils. That would be the case certainly in the short term, and possibly in the longer term. However, those costs would not be great. We are talking about a small group, which would require about 12,000 blind concessionary travel orders. If that figure is extended to include all the groups that are covered at the moment, more than 800,000 people in Scotland receive concessions in some shape or form. If the scheme were extended further, to unemployed people and groups that are not covered, the sums involved would increase substantially.We suspect that if groups other than blind people were included, those groups might well undertake more national travel than was anticipated for blind people. The two issues must go together. Once we know the scheme that is proposed, we can start to make an estimate of the costs.COSLA has not yet expressed a view on the issue of rural areas and fuel duty rebate for taxis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 665355,
      "EditedText": "Robin, very briefly, do you have any questions?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 665357,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate your co-operation, Robin. We have a lot of business to get through this morning and many people who will give evidence. I thank Trond, Tim and David for coming along this morning.We are now joined by Malcolm Reid and Anne Gibson of Strathclyde Passenger Transport."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 665364,
      "EditedText": "It does not work in practice—in fact, the scheme has consumed its own smoke since local government reorganisation. The budget has been sufficient to allow the scheme to roll on year on year. Although we have been pressing the constituent authorities to regularise matters and to hold a meeting, it has never been urgent, as we have not increased the call on the constituent authorities beyond the level of inflation. It is necessary for the joint committee for the Strathclyde scheme to meet for the first time—it will be meeting shortly—because the national scheme for the blind will involve some changes to the scheme's conditions that must be agreed properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665365",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 665365,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 665370,
      "EditedText": "I have two questions. First, the issue of disability troubles me enormously. Do you feel that there is scope for research in that area? My experience in Fife is that there are many people who would like to travel, but who do not because, for one reason or another, the industry—I will call it that—does not facilitate it. My second question follows the convener's train of thought on best practice, particularly on mainland Europe. Do you know anything about the Freiburg ticket, which is a very interesting scheme that has evolved over recent years and into which St Andrews University has done some research? I understand that that ticket has resulted in a doubling of the use of public transport; that it is transferable among members of a family; and that it has halved the cost of travelling for people in the Freiburg area, which I think takes in around 32 or 36 authorities."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 665371,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry—I am not aware of that scheme. What you have said interests me and I shall certainly inquire into it. There may be lessons to be learnt. It sounds as if it is targeted not just at traditional concessionary ticket holders, but, as you say, at the whole family."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 665373,
      "EditedText": "In the wider context of the Government's integrated transport white papers, reducing the cost of public transport for families and reducing traffic on the roads are the sorts of areas that we will have to get into. Travelling with four people in a car costs no more than travelling with one person; but taking a family out on public transport can be very expensive. In a marginal way, we have tried to address that in Strathclyde by providing tickets that are effectively day trip tickets for families. However, we have not gone as far as the example you gave.On disability and the inability of certain groups to travel, one has to accept that there are some people for whom public transport will never be accessible. We are considering alternatives such as the dial-a-bus scheme that we operate in Strathclyde, which provides door-to-door transport for people who would find it difficult to walk to a bus stop. There will always be some people who will need special provision.At one time, there was a fairly narrow definition of handicap when considering which groups would qualify for concessionary travel. That has now been widened. For example, it was regarded as something of a breakthrough when the deaf were admitted to the Strathclyde scheme. As I mentioned earlier, an inability to drive for medical reasons, for which we apply a general test, now allows a person to access the scheme. We also recognise temporary disabilities. For example, someone who is not of pensionable age but who has had a hip replacement would qualify—perhaps not for ever, but for a period of time.The difficulty—it is a difficulty with any system that deals with disability—is the screening process. We rely heavily on social work reports, backed up by medical referrals, to determine people's eligibility. In the early years of the scheme, we had problems. One can understand that general practitioners can be put under pressure by patients to certify them as disabled when they may not have met the scheme's criteria. The system probably works better now and creates fewer referrals than before. It is more objective and it avoids the difficulty of involving the doctor-patient relationship in the test of eligibility."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
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      "EditedText": "Yes, I agree; there is a 9 o'clock cut off. Until about 10 years ago we also had an evening peak restriction, which was eased when we increased the concessionary charge. I know that the committee will consider various ways of improving the scheme and the costs of doing so. It will be up to the scheme's sponsors whether they want to invest in extending eligibility or the hours of operation.I agree that the coherence and stability of the scheme have been kept because we have not had to go back year on year for increases. It is fair to say that we have had one or two marginal problems. In particular, Argyll and Bute has asked whether a scheme that is largely focused on urban areas is appropriate for its needs. Arrangements in the scheme, which were agreed at reorganisation, give Argyll and Bute a different financial basis that reflects the fact that there is less public transport there. Across the scheme area, the recharge basis is the proportion of elderly population within the local authority area, but marginal adjustments were made for Argyll and Bute because the ability to travel was less there. We also made arrangements to relax the 10-mile rule in remote areas in which the nearest town with shopping or medical facilities might not be within 10 miles."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665376",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 665376,
      "EditedText": "I have other questions. Can I carry on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 665387,
      "EditedText": "Fuel duty rebate is not a matter that we have addressed either at officer level or politically. My authority has not taken a view on it but has accepted it as part of the environment. I know that views on the appropriateness of extending fuel duty rebates have been expressed in other authorities."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665397",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 665397,
      "EditedText": "That answers my first point. My other point concerns the kind of schemes where local arrangements have been made with operators in relation to people on the new deal or those who are seeking employment. Is there scope for extending such schemes and, if so, what problems would we need to resolve?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665398",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 665398,
      "EditedText": "The operators made concessions over the new deal. A great deal of emphasis was put on the fact that it was a one-off initiative, that employers would give it only one chance and that young people would be disenchanted if it did not work. It was a gesture: to make an all-out effort for a finite period. We were worried about setting a precedent—where do you stop? One could argue that student nurses are badly off; one could keep going. There are many legitimate cases to be made—that is a worry. Ultimately, somebody has to pay."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C665402",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 665402,
      "EditedText": "It is not up to the industry to be prescriptive about how wide the scheme should be—that is a central and local government decision. It is up to government to define how schemes should be paid for. The fuel duty rebate is an option, but it is not the best solution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 665403,
      "EditedText": "Why?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 665406,
      "EditedText": "I accept that as an option. My point is that we should not be worse off by participating. It is not up to the industry to define how that is done."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 665415,
      "EditedText": "I remember the point I wanted to make. My perception is that it is the local authorities that fix the generation factors and the way in which reimbursement is made. That does not happen by joint negotiation. Only if the bus operators feel that they are losing out can they make a case. It is not as though there is a 50:50 basis for deciding reimbursement. The upper hand is with the local authorities."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665421",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 665421,
      "EditedText": "Marjory, I read the annual reports of bus companies—I am a sad person in that respect—and I see that profits are, on the whole, increasing. I am concerned that you keep returning to where the money is coming from, as if bus companies are on the threshold of disaster. That is not the impression that I get from the annual reports."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C665422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 665422,
      "EditedText": "I am not a financial accountant but, having been into some of the big transport groups' annual reports, I would say that money is not necessarily being generated by bus services as much as by other elements in their portfolios. That is, perhaps, a question more suited to the witness who will follow me."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 665423,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps it is. Thank you very much, Marjory—I appreciate your contribution.We will now hear from Bob Montgomery from FirstGroup. He will be the last to give evidence in this part of the meeting on concessionary fares. Welcome to you, Bob. It is good to see you again."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C665424",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Montgomery (FirstGroup): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 665424,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I want to avoid covering things that have already been covered—particularly the issues that Marjory covered. I will, however, answer the question that she ducked out of and left."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665425",
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    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 665425,
      "EditedText": "She cued you up well."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665430",
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      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 665430,
      "EditedText": "Picking up on concessionary fares as a set of social objectives, I would be interested to hear your views on the way in which the operators map out the pattern of use by concessionary travel pass users, compared to that of other users. Is that a factor in determining the provision or withdrawal of routes? I ask that question in a particular context. In my constituency, there has been some annoyance at the withdrawal of services that link Clydebank and Gartnavel hospital, which has caused difficulties for some categories of bus users. In the context of inclusion objectives, is not the pattern of service that should be provided an issue that goes beyond price?I have a second, related question. How do we know that the service that is provided is the one that particular groups of people—elderly or blind people, for example—actually want? Does your organisation specifically target such groups of users, by considering patterns of use or expectations of service provision? Do you have any such information to share with the committee?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C665426",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Montgomery: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 665426,
      "EditedText": "We are to CPT what Strathclyde is to COSLA, in that FirstGroup is the largest bus operator in Scotland. We operate about 40 per cent of the buses in Scotland. We have a significant operation in Glasgow and another in Aberdeen. Our Edinburgh operation stretches from Balfron, across the central belt, through Edinburgh and down through the Borders to Berwick.As an operator we have a fair amount of experience of different concessionary schemes, of how they impact on us and of how some of the things that Marjory mentioned in general terms impact on a particular operation. That is the area in which I might be able to help.I would like to make three specific points and I will then be happy to answer any questions. My first point is one that Marjory made, but it is important—particularly in terms of the question that was left on the table when she left. As an operator we do not see concessionary fare schemes as any kind of subsidy to us. We see them as subsidies to particular customers of ours, because other people are contributing to the travel costs of the elderly, the infirm and various other groups.As an operator we are covered by the existing legislation, which obliges local authorities—or whoever is sponsoring the concessionary fare scheme—to ensure that the operator is no better or worse off as a result of participation in the scheme. We obviously appreciate the fact that concessionary fare schemes stimulate the market—we will support anything that stimulates the market and stimulates demand. At the end of the day, however, we cannot make any additional profit out of such schemes because of the way in which they are controlled.Both COSLA and SPT have more or less confirmed that that is the situation. There have in the past been challenges to various schemes—FirstGroup has challenged certain schemes for not being generous enough. We felt that we would be worse off if we participated in them.There are some schemes in which we have participated only as a result of receipt of a formal participation notice, because we felt that we were losing money by being involved in them. The general environment is not one in which concessionary schemes and the money that is put into them constitute subsidies to the operator. The schemes are a subsidy to those who use them.As Marjory said, we are happy to co-operate with any concessionary fare scheme as long as it is fair and reasonable.This might be the point at which I should pick up the issue of our annual report and investment. If members were to read the previous FirstGroup annual report, they would see that there are two significant figures. One figure is profit, which can be a big number in an organisation as large as ours. Our turnover is big and our business is big. If members revisit our annual report they should look at two numbers—profit and capital investment. From those two, members will see that we, as an operator, invest more in developing public transport than we earn from profits. Our capital investment is significantly higher than our profit figure.It is worth pointing out that in a period of two and a half years we invested £50 million in our Glasgow business alone. We replaced almost half of the Glasgow bus fleet and virtually all that investment was in low-floor, easily accessible buses, which are of particular benefit to people who are covered by concessionary fare schemes.I can speak only for FirstGroup, but to be fair to the other large public limited companies that are involved in bus operation in Scotland I will say that all have invested significant sums of money in the business. That is why Marjory commented that operators need a level of profit. If there is no profit, we cannot invest and we cannot get people to invest in us. We can assure the committee that we are investing far more in developing the future of our business and in the future of public transport in Scotland than we earn from profit. That probably answers what seemed like a difficult question.Although my second point is not of specific concern to us, we know from the way in which our business develops with our participation in concessionary fare schemes that it is of concern to the committee. We would be just as happy to participate in a national scheme as we are to participate in the series of local schemes that are run by local authorities. In some ways, a national scheme might be better for us in terms of administration, because our drivers would have to deal with just one pass instead of three.A national scheme would have significant financial and political implications. It would impose national standards in place of local standards, and that would have different financial implications depending on the market environment, the kind of operation in question and the way in which the scheme is designed. For example, the Strathclyde scheme works well in Strathclyde but might produce a different range of costs if applied in Aberdeen. The Fife scheme applied to different areas would also produce different costs. As soon as the move to a national scheme takes place, the odds are that it would not be as tailored to the market as local schemes are, which could have significant cost implications.As an operator, we are concerned that a national scheme would have to be properly funded. If it was not, it would inhibit our ability to invest in new buses and in developing our service or it would push us into a position in which we had to ask some of our customers to cross-subsidise others. That possibility would concern any business, but it is of particular concern to us. The issue arises occasionally in the debate on quality contracts and quality partnerships. As soon as we begin to cross-subsidise, we find ourselves asking people in the areas where our strongest bus services operate—such as Easterhouse in Glasgow, where earnings and rates of car ownership are relatively low and travel can be difficult—to pay even higher fares to provide safety-net bus services in places such as Newton Mearns, where there are high levels of car ownership and people use buses only occasionally. We would question whether it is sensible to move in that direction. Encouraging cross-subsidy in the bus industry means that those without much money will end up supporting services in areas where there is a significant amount of money, and that is a dangerous path.We also feel that, as Helen Eadie pointed out, there are political implications. Unless every authority is allowed to do what it wants, powers to make local decisions about what is appropriate for an area will be taken away. We have a strong view that bus operation is a very local business. The bus service that people like in one town may not be the same as the service that people like in another. In running our business, we try not to impose national standards on the way in which we deliver services in Glasgow or in Aberdeen, for example. There are different markets and different environments, and the politicians with whom we deal all have different views. The committee must be aware that that is a political concern rather than our concern as operators. We are happy to co-operate with political decisions, but we recognise their significance, as we know that all the authorities that we deal with are proud of their own schemes and would not like them to be changed. We are happy to leave that dilemma for politicians to resolve.My third point is that, whatever decisions are taken in future about concessionary fare schemes, we think it important that those decisions be taken in the context of where the public transport market, the environment and the industry are all going, rather than where they have come from. As an industry, we have emerged from the toughest 30 years that we will ever experience. In the period between the mid-1960s and the mid-1990s, there was rising level of car ownership, rising prosperity and a reasonable amount of road space. The volume of people using buses declined fairly sharply; as a result, there was a limited amount of public finance, which caused fares to rise considerably. The whole environment of running buses has not been a pleasant place to be during the past 20 to 30 years. The market has been in constant decline and we have had to contend with that.Earlier, Trond said that one of the main reasons for concessionary fare schemes was the tendency of the bus industry to increase fares regularly throughout the 1970s and 1980s. Every time that those fares increased, elderly people and others found it more difficult to travel, so concessionary fares became more important.Malcolm Reid said that the fact that fares in Strathclyde had been relatively stable for the past couple of years had assisted the SPT scheme. The stability of the scheme is owing to the fact that there have been no increases in fares in the Glasgow area for two and a quarter years. There have been some fare reductions in that time. There was no pressure on the Strathclyde scheme, because the fares against which the reimbursement is benchmarked have been stable.We are involved in partnership arrangements throughout Scotland—Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburgh—to develop the local bus market commercially, treating it as a consumer business, considering what customers want and trying to encourage more people to use buses. That is a market-related strategy. We want to create a bus network, providing a bus service for everyone. That relates to social inclusion, because we want to create a bus network that people will choose to use, whether or not they have a car. If we can do that and maintain reasonable concessionary fares, we will have met the social inclusion factors.It is important to look forward. The committee does not need to consider how to handle concessionary fares in an environment of declining bus use and substantial fare increases—the war zone of the past 20 or 30 years. We are now close to announcing the first significant passenger growth in bus use in Glasgow for 30 years. We are at a stage where all the partnership activities—including holding fares for more than two years—are creating a buoyant bus market: more people are using buses. There has also been an increase in passenger numbers in Edinburgh. In Aberdeen, we made a commitment not to increase fares this financial year. That is something that we have never done before. We have advised Aberdeen City Council that, unless there is an absolute disaster, we will not increase fares in Aberdeen. There was a huge sigh of relief at the news, because the budget had always been based on the assumption that bus fares increase every year, with a knock-on effect on the concessionary fare scheme. That was a factor in the break-up of the joint Aberdeenshire Council and Aberdeen City Council scheme. We want to pursue our Aberdeen strategy nationally. We are desperately trying to reverse the trend of declining bus use in the country as a whole. That is why we are investing and developing in such a way. Any changes to concessionary fares should be considered in that context. We must consider the direction that the public transport market is taking. The operators—particularly the large plc operators—take a fundamentally different approach to the market. We are driven by the need to get more people to use buses. If we continue the policy of public sector-private sector partnership, in which the operator is developing the market and encouraging growing use, while the local authorities and the Government are investing in infrastructure and—where it makes sense—supporting concessionary fare schemes, we see a bright future for the industry. Concessionary fare schemes will also be less of a problem, because in the long run fares will be better value. The business is growing. As the largest operator in Scotland, we are keen to work in partnership with Government and local authorities to find the best commercial solutions to the various social problems.Marjory alluded briefly to the national scheme for the blind, which will be introduced in November. That scheme will probably cost us money, but not a huge amount. Therefore, we are happy to participate in the scheme, to discover how it will work and develop. I repeat what Marjory said: no one should take that as a precedent. It should not be presumed that, if we will do that for a penny, people can come along and ask us to get the chequebook out and contribute a few thousand quid. That would be a slightly different charitable donation. However, we are happy to participate in the scheme for the blind. Similarly, we would be happy to participate in the development of concessionary fare schemes, provided that that is not at the expense of our other customers or investment. Investment in public transport in Scotland is essential."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 665435,
      "EditedText": "Some people say that quality partnerships and quality contracts are the only way forward. Others say that franchises are the way forward. How do the operators see that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Montgomery: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 665438,
      "EditedText": "I was answering the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Glasgow) Designation Order 1999 (SSI 1999/59)",
      "HeadingID": 25726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 25726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 665444,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (City of Glasgow) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/60)",
      "HeadingID": 25727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ID": 25727,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 665445,
      "EditedText": "This order was laid on 13 September and is subject to annulment until 6 November.The Subordinate Legislation Committee considered the instrument on 21 September\"and draws the attention of the Parliament to the above Regulations on the ground that they make an unexpectedly narrow use of the enabling power.\"As before, that point will still stand even if we say that we are happy with the order. The Executive is responding in general to all those who draw up SSIs. Are we content with the instrument? We are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ID": 25730,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 665451,
      "EditedText": "We might get more benefit from a visit if we go when our ideas about a national scheme are a bit clearer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ID": 25730,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 665452,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We will look into the matter further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25730,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 665453,
      "EditedText": "Could we invite the organisation to submit a paper to us anyway?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
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      "ID": 25730,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 665454,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that the clerk will take that up."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 665330,
      "EditedText": "I have one question on the last point about assessing who should receive assistance and the level of the benefits. Are you saying that, in terms of introducing a national scheme, you are concerned that not enough research has been done to give the committee and the Executive a clear direction?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 665334,
      "EditedText": "How much of that information does COSLA have? As you are shaking your heads, I take it that COSLA does not have very much information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trond Haugen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 665336,
      "EditedText": "COSLA does not have that much information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trond Haugen (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 665328,
      "EditedText": "I will try to stick to the headings that you used, convener, the first of which was the need for concessionary travel schemes. The main purpose of local authority travel schemes is to provide low-cost travel for people who are perceived as requiring assistance to move around, either because their mobility is impaired or because they have low or no income. One problem is that the trend during the past decade has been for high fare increases. Between 1990 and 1997 there was an increase of no less than 60 per cent in fares. During the same time, the gap between rich and poor has increased further. For a large number of people, therefore, the affordability of transport has become an increasing factor in and a major cause of social exclusion.Local authorities have little or no direct influence over fare levels, so concessionary travel—lower fares—is a significant tool for them to promote social inclusion. Concessionary travel schemes have a number of indirect effects. The bus industry is quite dependent on the income from concessionary schemes. At the moment, throughout the United Kingdom, approximately 14 per cent of the industry's income comes from concessionary schemes. Arguably, that figure is even higher in Scotland where concessions are more generous than those south of the border. Payment for supported services makes up only 10 per cent of income for operators, which gives a clear indication of the importance of concessionary schemes.Concessionary travel schemes also assist in safeguarding the bus network, especially during off-peak periods and weekends, when often the majority of passengers are pensioners and disabled people. Should concessionary schemes be cut back, the number of such passengers would be reduced, with the effect of contracting the network. Such contraction would affect not only concession holders, but full fare paying passengers. It could be argued that under the Transport Act 1985 local authorities should support the network through tenders, but there is no doubt that it is also supported through concession schemes. I refer members to the three diagrams at the back of the paper that I have circulated, which show the large variations between authorities in expenditure on concessionary travel. The authority with the lowest expenditure spent only one sixth of the amount per head of population spent by the more generous authorities. When it comes to support of the network, however, rural authorities are the higher spenders. City councils in general spend less. The ratio is typically something like a factor of four. If one adds the two together, one finds that the variation between authorities is not that great, so if one looks at concession and support for services together, the lowest and highest variation between authorities are perhaps only a factor of two. That shows that concession schemes assist in supporting networks.We are all aware of rail concessions, but they are not as extensive as bus concessions and it could be argued that local authorities, as well as the concession users, view rail concession as being of lesser importance than bus concession. With the possible exception of Strathclyde, the income from concession schemes to rail operators is of much lower significance than it is to bus operators.A further indirect benefit from concession schemes is traffic reduction. Generous concession schemes encourage people to get out of their cars. The growth in car ownership is highest among the elderly. Twenty years ago, people who reached pensionable age were not normally car owners, whereas now such people have got used to their cars. They grew up during the 1950s, when mass car ownership really took off. Road safety is also a factor, as road accident statistics show a marked increase for fairly elderly people, whereas statistics covering other types of accident normally decrease. Concession schemes certainly have an effect on that.Finally, I stress the importance of concession schemes to 16 to 18-year-olds who travel to school. There are problems with car traffic around schools and we encourage safe travel to school. Schemes for 16 to 18-year-olds encourage pupils to take the bus—that is, schemes for those pupils who do not already receive free travel from school because of distance. It also encourages young people to use the bus in the future. They gain confidence in public transport.Moving on to the second topic, the current scope and focus of travel concession schemes, the briefing paper outlines eligibility for concession and I will not dwell on that point. Most authorities operate schemes for the elderly and disabled. In respect of concessions for young people, only a handful of local authorities include such schemes for 16 to 18-year-olds. For the lower age groups, schemes are provided by operators on a commercial basis, usually by charging half-fare for those aged up to 16. I would argue that the indirect benefits of travel concession schemes, in terms of road safety, traffic reduction and sustaining the bus network, are achieved, to a reasonable extent.However, there are a large number of groups who are not covered by travel concession schemes, such as the unemployed, single parents and people on income support, although we should acknowledge and congratulate those operators that have shown their initiative by introducing special deals for job seekers on a commercial basis. On the other hand, it could be argued that a fair number of retired people are relatively well off and perhaps do not warrant such a high priority in terms of reduced fares. The main objective—to provide affordable travel for low-income groups and to promote social inclusion—is only partially achieved by the current schemes. Perhaps some of the resources that benefit those pensioners who are better off could be better utilised elsewhere.It is also necessary to look at the legal considerations. Lawyers have advised me that it is not that straightforward to change the categories. The way in which the act is worded could lead to a legal challenge if certain people within a group are excluded from the concession schemes. We would prefer to see a change in the legislation should this be the direction in which the country goes. There is, however, a catch-all in section 93(7)(f), under which the Scottish Executive has powers to include additional groups. Nevertheless, we must be careful not to take action that might lead to legal challenge.I want to raise the issue of financial constraints and the administrative complexities of current concession schemes. There is no doubt that concession schemes have become much more vulnerable to cutbacks in local authority expenditure. Many councils also face a funding crisis due to steep price increases, and sudden increases of 10 per cent in concession expenditure are not uncommon. Of course, local authorities have great difficulties in dealing with such sudden hikes, especially when budgets have not taken full account of what is likely to happen. The rules regarding financial reimbursement for operators are extremely complex and I suggest that operators and councils alike would benefit from a review of those rules. In contrast, payments to rail operators are arranged through individual agreements and there are therefore great variations throughout the country for payments to ScotRail. Again, there ought to be a review of that situation.Reorganisations in local government in 1996 also caused difficulties. Some operators now have to cope with three or four concession schemes on just one service, and that places extreme demands on the drivers. Some standardisation of schemes would therefore be of benefit. Some authorities, in the Lothians and the Grampians for example, have arranged joint schemes, but it has been difficult to sustain those systems.The issue of a national concession scheme has been raised and I would argue that such a scheme would require completely different administrative and funding arrangements from those that are in place today. There is no doubt that additional financial resources would be required, and there may also have to be changes to legislation.However, a national concession scheme would have a number of benefits. It would increase travel and social benefits for the most vulnerable groups. It would remove the perceived unfairness of variations in local schemes from one authority to another. It would avoid the difficult and controversial task of estimating generated travel as part of the complex apparatus for reimbursing operators. It would allow local authorities to concentrate on the important task of quality partnerships and quality contracts, rather than spending lots of time on dealing with concessionary schemes. It would also lead to greater consistency in concessionary travel and to a more stable basis for funding. I believe that local authorities ought to have powers to top up facilities for concession schemes. Of course, some authorities, including my own, value such schemes very highly.It is difficult to envisage a national travel scheme being established without additional funding. A voluntary scheme is being introduced for the blind, but there is only limited scope to expand it any further. For a national scheme involving a significant number of people, one possible option would be to force operators by law to carry the relevant concession groups on, for example, a half-fare basis without any direct reimbursement. As a possible compensation, there could be an increase in fuel duty rebate, because that is the existing apparatus that is available to the Government to pay operators. Such an arrangement would simplify administration, and I am fairly sure that, in the long run, such an arrangement will be viewed as a natural right for the relevant groups, just as the current half-fare schemes for young people and teenagers are viewed as a natural right.Along similar lines, compensation for rail travel could be incorporated into new franchising arrangements. Again, that would simplify the administration procedures. However, should we continue the existing principle of an operator being no better or worse off, a national administration system would have to be set up, incorporating a complex monitoring procedure. The development of smart cards might simplify the process.I would have to ask whether a national concession scheme would provide best value. Originally, concession schemes were set up to assist people in travelling to their local town centre, to go shopping and to gain access to essential services. If that was expanded to become a national scheme, allowing travel all over Scotland, there would still be a cost to the user at the end of the journey, and we might still exclude certain low-income groups from benefiting. I would have to ask whether we were putting resources in the right place to gain best value.Most authorities in Scotland operate a taxicard scheme. There are many differences between the schemes, which is confusing for taxi operators. Standardisation would improve the situation.In conclusion, we ought to reassess who should receive assistance and what level of benefit should be offered—that is a best value exercise. We should consider scope for greater standardisation of concession schemes. We should definitely simplify the administrative procedures. We must review and amend legislation as required. Finally, of course, we must consider who will pay for it all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Hunter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 665348,
      "EditedText": "My personal view is that a review of the literature, the modelling and so on would be justifiable. Because these are hypothetical questions, it would not be warranted to spend a great deal of money on what would ultimately be hypothetical answers. However, a review of the literature could be justified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trond Haugen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 665350,
      "EditedText": "Such schemes are not uncommon in continental countries, where operators are forced, through legislation, to carry certain groups of people. I am not sure how the funding process works in those countries—whether through a fuel duty rebate or by a standard payment that is made by local authorities or the Government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 665356,
      "EditedText": "I will pass. Most of my questions have been answered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 665360,
      "EditedText": "We heard concerns about the bureaucracy involved in administering the scheme. It was mentioned that the total cost is £18.5 million per annum. What proportion of that is spent on administration? You said that it is a very small proportion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 665361,
      "EditedText": "In total, less than £400,000 is spent on administering the scheme, the bulk of which is the payment to the Post Office, which issues our concession cards. Anne can tell us exactly how many of our staff are directly involved in administering the scheme—it is a relatively small number."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 665359,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Malcolm."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 665366,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm, you get about in the industry—you have been involved in it for a long time. Are you aware of models of good practice? Who does it better than us? Can you shed any light on the situation in continental countries? Do you think that their schemes are better?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 665372,
      "EditedText": "We are interested in the scheme not just because of concessions, but because of the desire to reduce the number of people on the roads."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 665374,
      "EditedText": "I live in the Grampian area. We had a region-wide scheme that collapsed when one partner withdrew, as you will know. I wondered about the stability of the scheme in Strathclyde. How big a factor has the absence of financial pressures on it been?You say that you use only marginal capacity for your scheme. If the scheme is extended to cover people who need to travel to work—you probably are including those people if you are talking about people who cannot drive as that does not mean that they cannot work—would that not put a fair amount of financial pressure on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 665378,
      "EditedText": "Did I hear correctly that you said that a national scheme would involve nationwide travel? Why did you make that assumption? There could be a national scheme that replicated the 10-mile rule of your scheme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 665381,
      "EditedText": "There would be no problem having a scheme with national eligibility but within local travel bounds."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 665383,
      "EditedText": "Argyll and Bute procures its own bus services and tenders in the normal way."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665385",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 665385,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, concessionary travel income will be part of what the operator takes into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 665386,
      "EditedText": "I want to put to Malcolm Reid much the same points that I put to COSLA.Do you see contracts or partnerships being part of a national travel concession scheme?What is your view of COSLA's suggestion that a national scheme could be funded by an expansion of fuel duty rebate? If that happened, how would you deal with other forms of transport, such as ferries, which clearly could not be covered by FDR?What is the position of SPT on fuel duty rebate and the fuel duty escalator, as we veer towards another 6 per cent hike?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 665388,
      "EditedText": "How does it affect your fares?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 665401,
      "EditedText": "What are your views on the extension of the fuel duty rebate as a method of implementing a national scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 665390,
      "EditedText": "I thank both of you for coming along today. I now invite Marjory Rodger to submit evidence to the committee on behalf of the Confederation of Passenger Transport UK. I was waiting for questions, and then four came along at once. However, I will not draw any analogies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 665399,
      "EditedText": "Are you suggesting that extending the scheme in future is not an option?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 665393,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee for giving CPT the opportunity to put the industry perspective. On seeing the names of today's other witnesses, I made the assumption that COSLA and SPT would present more than adequately both the historic and current situations regarding concessionary travel. I do not, therefore, intend to bore the committee by revisiting the Transport Act 1985.Concessionary fare schemes are not a contentious issue between local government and the bus operators, so long as the concession schemes are seen to be fair and simple.From the bus operators' perspective, these are the essential points to be borne in mind. First, concessionary fare schemes are not a subsidy to bus operators. They are instruments of social policy offering subsidised bus travel to elements of society for whom it is deemed appropriate. If concessionary fare schemes were withdrawn, the operators would be no worse off. Put simply, instead of 100 people paying 30p, there would be 30 people paying 100p. Turnover would go down—but so would costs.Secondly, operators need to be treated fairly by concessionary travel schemes. They need to be able to benefit by providing good services. For example, the largest concessionary travel schemes relate to senior citizens, who benefit from low-floor, easy-access buses. However, if the local authority says that there is no more money available to reimburse the operator, there is no incentive for the latter to make the additional investment. The operator should be allowed to make some level of legitimate profit.Thirdly, reimbursement is normally calculated by using a generation factor. As previous speakers have said, that is based on the principle that passengers who are eligible for concessionary travel passes or subsidised travel make more journeys than they would have made if they did not have the concession passes and were required to pay the full cost of each journey. If a local authority offered a half-fare travel scheme, the operator would not be reimbursed for the full half of the revenue forgone—one-third reimbursement might be decided on. There is no standard method of calculating revenue forgone. Each scheme makes its own case.The calculations might be based on average fare by route, on the revenue forgone by the journey or on some survey. The concept of extra journeys being generated is accepted by the operators, so long as the arithmetic is done in such a way that the operators are seen to be no worse off by participating in a concessionary travel scheme than they would have been had the full fare been paid.About 25 concessionary travel schemes are operating in Scotland and most of them differ in their application and content. Some offer free fare, others half fare, and others a set fare. Some operators are involved in only one local authority area scheme, but Scottish Citylink Coaches, a cross-boundary service provider, is involved in nine concessionary travel schemes.Concessionary travel schemes are legal arrangements and can be rigid and unvariable. When the local authority decides that it wants to introduce a variation to the scheme, the variation can be to the detriment of the participating operators. Operators would welcome the introduction of a single national scheme for many reasons. It would be much simpler to ensure that drivers recognise passes, so a passenger's right to travel would not be queried—at present, drivers have to deal with a variety of passes. It would greatly simplify the administration involved in claiming payments. However, operators would want such a scheme to be controlled centrally to ensure the correct payment structure and they would not want repayment calculations to be based on surveys, which, experience has shown, can be an inaccurate method of establishing the average for a set period of time. Ticket machine technology is sophisticated enough to provide accurate data, as long as the drivers are adequately trained.The operators recognise the Government's concern about social inclusion issues. Similar concerns led to the introduction of the first concessionary travel schemes. The industry is doing what it can to make travelling by bus easier. It is investing heavily in easy-access vehicles, which will ensure that all but the most severely disabled will be able to travel by bus. Bus and coach operators are also committed to driver training. Attainment standards for Scottish vocational qualifications have been set. A significant proportion of the SVQ standards relates to customer care. In addition, CPT and the operators are in discussion with groups such as ENABLE, which represents adults with learning disabilities, and the Scottish accessible transport alliance to try to incorporate their requests into the formal training programme.CPT and the operators are committed to playing their part in improving integrated information. They aim to get the national golden number call centres up and running by 31 December 2000.CPT is one of the lead bodies of project PTI 2000 and since CPT is the trade association for bus, coach and light rail, the funding that it has already laid out for the project has come from the operators, through their subscriptions.The bus and coach industry is not averse to any concessionary travel scheme being broadened out to other groups in society, provided that the industry is not worse off by participating. Concessionary travel schemes are not a subsidy to bus operators. We can see an environmental benefit to broadening concessionary travel schemes in that a proportion of highly polluting older cars would be taken off the road.The press release of 29 September 1999 about John Prescott's pledge for half-price travel for pensioners stated that the Government would give an extra £25 million to local authorities to fund the measure and that local authorities would be able to offer more generous schemes if they wanted to. Senior citizens who enjoy free travel, such as those in Fife, would cause an outcry if half-price travel were introduced. To the operators, it is a local authority budget decision relating to social policy.The most recent example of development in the field is the national free concessionary travel for the blind scheme, which will commence on 1 December this year. Bus operators are supporting the COSLA proposals, but they are concerned that as local authority budgets are already allocated for the current year, councils will not be required to pay any more than they do at present and any shortfall will be picked up by the operators as a gesture of good will. On the basis that the scheme is not a precedent and that it is being extended only because of the relatively small numbers involved, the operators are having to agree.In summary, the concept of concessionary travel schemes is acceptable to the operators, provided that the industry would not be worse off by participating or that it would have to raise fares to fund such schemes. We would find it unacceptable if habitual bus users—a large proportion of whom come from the lower income groups—were required to subsidise travel for others."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 665394,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Marjory."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 665395,
      "EditedText": "I am looking for clarification. You mentioned that operators need to be treated fairly by concessionary travel schemes and that they should be able to make some level of legitimate profit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 665396,
      "EditedText": "They should be able to profit generally, not through the travel schemes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 665408,
      "EditedText": "As an example, Fife has a very generous concessionary travel scheme. Scottish Citylink has said that when its buses pull into Dunfermline, there are so many people with free passes going on shopping trips to Perth that the fare payers cannot get on. That means a second bus. If you duplicate, the costs go up. On some occasions you require less."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 665410,
      "EditedText": "You are absolutely spot on, Marjory. There would be a revolution in Fife if there was ever a hint of a suggestion that free fares would be taken away from elderly and disabled people. Would you comment on my perception that although it is possible to negotiate with bus operators to maintain the low cost of a concessionary fare scheme and to have only modest increases, there is a hidden cost in that operators stop running bus routes in some of the more rural areas? When that happens, Fife has to come on board to subsidise additional costs. I know that Cathy and other colleagues around the table are very concerned about the withdrawal of bus services in rural areas and I know from my post-bag that that is a continuing problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 665412,
      "EditedText": "It was a difficult question."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 665416,
      "EditedText": "But there is a virtual monopoly, and I am sure that a cartel is operating. Those are some of the issues here."
    },
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  {
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 665417,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is a cartel on concessionary fare schemes. I would have to take issue with that. We have been discussing concessionary fare schemes, and I do not see that they are used to cross-subsidise services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 665418,
      "EditedText": "We will leave that issue there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 665420,
      "EditedText": "That is moving into the area that Kenny MacAskill describes as the quality partnership when he talks about senior citizens and easy access, and it is not the subject of today's presentation. I was trying to indicate by other measures that operators are thinking about how to make travel better. They are not just putting on buses to run from A to B; they are trying to improve information and they are opting for full Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee specifications. The law is moving that way for new registrations, but the operators have moved ahead of the deadlines. As fleet replacement goes through, all vehicles will meet DPTAC specifications. Depending on the model of the bus, the extra features cost £15,000 to £20,000 per vehicle. The industry is bearing those costs. Operators are trying to make bus travel easier and more acceptable—it is not as though they are doing nothing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Montgomery: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 665429,
      "EditedText": "A lot of what I have told the committee today concerns the way in which the urban market is developing. There has been a significant decline in the use of bus services in urban areas, which has had knock-on effects on the environment there. There has been significant success for our Scottish operations, which are predominantly urban—we are the major urban operator in the country. We are also considering, in conjunction with local authorities, a number of rural operations. During the past few weeks, we have spoken to SPT about reviewing some of our rural operations in the Strathclyde area—particularly those that have declined in recent years. We have taken a broader perspective and have examined the situation with the local authorities to determine whether there is any way in which we can develop those operations more successfully. We are willing to consider any situation, and we are keen to find ways in which we can develop our rural networks.I will be honest with you. Changes in the market have resulted in 30 years of decline in the industry everywhere. The urban markets have begun to turn, and we are keen to ensure that the rural markets will follow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Montgomery: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 665431,
      "EditedText": "The way in which we develop our business falls into two categories. The first involves the examination of the commercial implications of developing the network and various services, as we are anxious to provide bus services that people have intimated that they want to use and that they will choose to use. We are wary of designing bus services in such a way that buses run around empty—we would rather design services that people will use. Therefore, we take account of the total demand for services when considering how to design them. There may be occasions when the elderly community's demand for a service is different from that of the rest of the community; that is the case with services such as the one that Des McNulty mentioned. That leaves us in a constant dilemma. For example, we might make a change to a service, gaining an extra 50 passengers who leave their cars at home and use the bus instead, but losing two passengers—we have to make the right decision about such situations. Do we look after the two passengers whom we had already or do we look after the 50 passengers who would choose to use the bus? Where do we go? We generally take the view that it is more appropriate for us to look after the 50 passengers. We should always look forward to the way in which the market is changing and the way in which travel patterns are changing; we should not freeze the bus network at the stage that it was 20 years ago, say. That provides us with tough decisions—we may have to change services in a way that meets the market changes, but leads to one or two people being inconvenienced. We have to deal with those one or two people as best we can. Under the policy that we have adopted in Glasgow, which we may extend elsewhere, we do not change services without first consulting the local authority. We are not legally obliged to do that, but we feel that it is the appropriate course of action to take. We consult the local authority confidentially—for competitive reasons, it can be difficult to do that publicly at that stage of the process—in order to flush out some of the issues. If there is a social inclusion factor—if there is a particular social need for a service—our second move is to review the options for dealing with that factor and to try to identify a commercial way of dealing with it. We feel that it is far better to deal with these matters commercially than to make any call on public funds. However, if we identify a need to do that, we try to reach an agreement with the local authority, to ensure that it is happy to provide the funds and that we shape the service so that it fits the social need. Consultation is the only way in which to deal with such situations. We take our social responsibility as a network operator very seriously. We can give you a number of examples where we have deliberately restored or run loss-making services because we felt an obligation to include those services as part of the network and give them every possible chance. We are examining the service that Des McNulty mentioned to see whether we can find a way of resolving the situation. However, in that case, which I happen to know well, it is interesting to note that the number of people who have lost the link to Gartnavel hospital is exceeded by the number of people who have gained a link. You cannot win them all. We have yet to decide whether we can move the situation forward, but we are considering it. The second category of business development involves market research. We conduct a national, monthly programme of market research for each of our 30 UK subsidiaries. That research monitors how our customers feel about a range of aspects of our services, including the design of the network. It includes analysis that segments the market down and that identifies elderly people who are part of the concessionary fare scheme. Because we monitor very carefully, we know what our concessionary passengers think of our service as opposed to what other passengers think. One of the business' major drives is to increase those ratings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 665432,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I will take the next questions from Nora and Helen and then pass over to Bob to wind up."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Montgomery: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 665436,
      "EditedText": "Our understanding is that quality contracts and franchising are the same thing. The choice is between partnerships and contracts, and making a contract is, in effect, franchising. That is one of the reasons why I said that we should consider the past 30 years and the next 30 years. We are beginning to see significant benefits from deregulation, especially in urban areas. Some of the deep-rural operation is more difficult to handle, but the vast bulk of urban bus operation and large-town operation is commercial. The operators fund it and there is significant investment. Passenger growth and greater bus use are beginning to emerge. The market approach of bus operators is beginning to turn back the trend of decline. It would be a huge mistake and a great pity to turn the tap off and revert to a situation where buses were centrally planned and the rigidities associated with contracts and franchising came into the market. That would take decisions about bus services away from the customers, where they belong, and make them political, which would not be the best way of ensuring growing bus use as efficiently as possible.There is a huge benefit in positive partnerships between operators and local authorities, where the operator designs and develops the commercial service and seeks to maximise its use, while the local authority and the Government invest in the infrastructure to facilitate that. Operators, such as ourselves, are happy to contribute towards infrastructure development. At the moment, we are spending money from our profits on infrastructure and investment in major cities across the UK. We are strongly in favour of partnerships and counsel strongly against franchising."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 665437,
      "EditedText": "That is a debate for another day Bob."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Smoke Control Areas (Exempted Fireplaces) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/58)",
      "HeadingID": 25725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ID": 25725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 665440,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to agenda items 2 to 6, which are the SSIs.The first instrument was laid on 10 September 1999 and is subject to annulment until 3 November. The Subordinate Legislation Committee considered the instrument on 21 September and had nothing to report. As members will see, a briefing has been provided. Have members had a chance to examine the SSI and are they content with it?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parking Attendants (Wearing of Uniforms) (City of Glasgow Parking Area) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/62)",
      "HeadingID": 25729,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ID": 25729,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 665447,
      "EditedText": "This order was laid on 13 September and is subject to annulment until 6 November.The Subordinate Legislation Committee considered the instrument on 21 September and had nothing to report. Are we content with that? We are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ID": 25730,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 665448,
      "EditedText": "We have received four invitations. For members' information—and participation, if they deem it appropriate—the first is from the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, which has invited us to a small PR event on 13 December to launch its festive safety campaign. Details are available from the clerk.Next, Comhairle nan Eilean Siar is seeking a meeting with us. Although we will be discussing matters of rural transport, we thought that we would put that one on the back burner until a more appropriate point in the committee's work plan, as we have done with other invitations that are being kept on file. Are we agreed? We are agreed.The Scottish Association for Public Transport has written to us to ask for a meeting. We will discuss that later when the Scottish Executive's transport proposals come to the committee. Are we agreed? We are.The Institute of Logistics and Transport has also asked for a meeting. Again, that may be more appropriate when we are discussing the Executive's transport proposals. Are we agreed? We are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25730,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 665449,
      "EditedText": "May I go back to Comhairle nan Eilean Siar? I think that there would be merit in meeting that organisation; if it has something worth while to draw to our attention, we might want to change our agenda. Unless we hear what organisations such as Comhairle nan Eilean Siar—and others, for example in Shetland and Orkney—have to say about transport, we might go in a direction that is not appropriate for rural areas. We should at least be open to them. I appreciate that there are budget limitations, but Comhairle nan Eilean Siar seems to have particular problems and we should listen to what it has to say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ContributionID": 665455,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:04."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 6 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25723,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 665324,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:03"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 6 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25723,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 25723,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andy Kerr): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 665325,
      "EditedText": "I formally open this meeting of the Transport and the Environment Committee of the Scottish Parliament. I welcome those sitting in the public gallery.It would be remiss of me if I did not, at the start of this meeting, refer to yesterday's tragic rail crash. Committee members join me in passing on our sympathies to those involved. We recognise that it was a tragedy and we recognise the sadness of the families and friends of those involved in the incident. We also pass on our thoughts to those in the public services who are involved in trying to deal with this tragic situation.I advise members that Linda Fabiani has submitted her apologies for this meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 665326,
      "EditedText": "Moving on to the formal part of this morning's meeting, during our previous sessions we identified that we wished to consider concessionary travel schemes as a priority issue. We have a briefing note that has been prepared on behalf of the Scottish Parliament information centre by Graham Vidler, which has been well received and for which I thank him.A number of bodies have been invited today to brief the committee. I recognise some faces out there. Those bodies are the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, Strathclyde Passenger Transport, the Confederation of Passenger Transport UK and FirstGroup plc. We have asked them to brief us on the need for concessionary travel schemes, the current scope and focus of such schemes, the extension of concessionary travel schemes to cover other groups and the introduction of a national scheme.Tim Stone will speak on behalf of COSLA. SPT is represented by Malcolm Reid, the Confederation of Passenger Transport UK by Marjory Rodger and FirstGroup by Bob Montgomery. Each of the organisations will give a separate presentation after which we will have an opportunity to ask questions. Tim and his colleagues, Trond Haugen and David Hunter, now join us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Stone (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 665327,
      "EditedText": "While the papers are being circulated, let me explain that Trond Haugen is the transportation manager for Fife Council—the kingdom of Fife—and that David Hunter is the concessionary and accessible transport manager for City of Edinburgh Council.Trond has put a great deal of work into the presentation that has been passed round and, with your permission, convener, he will speak to the paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trond Haugen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 665333,
      "EditedText": "We would have to discover the existing usage amongst the groups that we want to include. We would also need to divide those groups into various social categories in order to discover who is not travelling under existing arrangements. Resources could then be targeted towards helping the people with the greatest need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tim Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 665335,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 665337,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Tavish. Helen and Murray have some questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 665340,
      "EditedText": "Feel free, David and Tim, to indicate if you want to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 665329,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Trond. The committee will now put questions to the COSLA team."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 665341,
      "EditedText": "I have a number of wee queries. There were a couple of points on which, going through your presentation, I was not entirely clear. One of those, Trond, was on page 2, paragraph 2, about the possibility of supporting services\"through tenders rather than indirectly through travel concession schemes.\"I am not clear what you meant by that. My other query is about page 5, in the second paragraph under \"Financial Constraints\". You describe the regulations as complex and say that they would benefit from a review. I wonder if you could give us a brief example of that, to let us see what you are thinking of, so that we can appreciate how worth while that might be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Hunter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 665345,
      "EditedText": "With regard to the travel generated, one of the principles of concessionary travel is that the operator is supposed to be no better and no worse off than they would have been if the scheme did not exist. That relies on all sorts of assumptions, most of which are entirely unproveable, about how many people would have travelled in the absence of the scheme, how much they would have paid and similar factors. Generally, councils feel that they are paying too much and the bus operators probably feel that they are paying too much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 665349,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the notion that has been raised in the paper, and which you also mentioned, of a national scheme that would  operate by force of law to make the operators carry certain groups of people and that would consider more creative ways of refunding or reimbursing the costs. I have an interest in that because people in the rural communities are concerned, particularly those who need access to transport because they must travel to hospitals or take up education opportunities—needs that are currently outwith the scope of the schemes. Could you say a wee bit more about that? Are there places where that has worked in practice or models that will allow us to examine in more detail how it might operate? Is that a good idea, which we should investigate further?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 665353,
      "EditedText": "I have three questions to ask. My first relates to the operation of such a scheme, and follows on from Helen's comments. Do you think that quality contracts rather than partnerships will be necessary for the administration of the scheme? My second question is: if we were to deal with the matter by seeking a variation in the fuel duty rebate, at what level would we seek to do that? Given that the Government is likely to receive a substantial increase through inflation, plus the 6 per cent increase, what amount are we talking about? Would we be asking the Government to give us more, or would we be seeking simply to give back to the people of Scotland what they already have? Thirdly, does COSLA have any view about the extension of FDR to taxi services in rural areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5306396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Gibson (Strathclyde Passenger Transport): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 665362,
      "EditedText": "We employ approximately eight clerical staff who issue the cards and a further four clerical staff who deal with compensation payments."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid (Strathclyde Passenger Transport): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 665358,
      "EditedText": "First, I introduce Anne Gibson, the financial accountant in SPT who is responsible for looking after the concession scheme. I will pass any difficult questions to her.I do not want to go over the evidence that COSLA has presented. I thought that members of the committee might be interested to hear a bit more detail about the operation of the Strathclyde scheme, which is probably the largest in Scotland. My perspective will be different, but I will touch on a number of the issues that have already been mentioned.We have 309,000 cardholders in Strathclyde; that is a significant proportion—probably around 15 per cent—of the area's total population. Slightly more than 80 per cent of cardholders are elderly, with the balance made up of people with various categories of disability, of whom about 70 per cent are people with a physical handicap. The next biggest group—about 17 per cent—comprises people with either a mental handicap or a severe learning disability. About 7 per cent are registered blind and there are smaller numbers in several other categories. The tests that we use in Strathclyde are age, as defined in the relevant legislation; disability, satisfying criteria that have been agreed with the social work departments and the health boards; or inability to drive, for example someone who is epileptic and cannot hold a driving licence. We spread the net fairly widely to encompass groups of people who would find difficulty with independent transport and who have a social need.It is fair to say that the Strathclyde scheme goes back to local government reorganisation in 1975. The vision of the scheme's founding fathers was of a scheme that would give mobility at a relatively affordable price to defined categories of the community that were less able to pay the full market price. COSLA's evidence has demonstrated how the cost of transport has become increasingly burdensome for some groups in the community. Having said that, we recognise that the scheme is a crude tool for providing social assistance. Some people who benefit from the scheme are well able to pay full fares, but a choice has to be made between a scheme that is easy to administer and to understand but fairly blunt, and a scheme that is more targeted. We have always worked on the basis that the relative cost of the scheme justifies the broad approach. Public support for the scheme and its value to the elderly and other eligible categories in Strathclyde were amply demonstrated at the time of local government reorganisation, when there was considerable pressure to retain the Strathclyde scheme in more or less its present form. The requirement to carry over a pre-reorganisation scheme into the current local government structure has meant that we have a complex set of administrative arrangements for the Strathclyde scheme.The Strathclyde Passenger Transport area no longer coincides with the former regional council area of Strathclyde. To retain the benefits of the Strathclyde scheme throughout the 12 new unitary authority areas, the scheme is the joint property of those unitary authorities and of the passenger transport authority. It is a very strange animal. It has its own set of accounts and as of next week will have its own administrative committee. It is a joint scheme for which the rules and regulations are jointly determined.The passenger transport executive administers the scheme on behalf of the sponsoring authorities, but that is not part of the normal PTE function. We do that effectively as agents for the scheme sponsors. In practice, we are doing what we did before reorganisation: we are running the scheme throughout Strathclyde and we have built up a body of expertise and knowledge in applying the principles of the scheme and in interpreting the case law, which gets more complex as new administrative issues arise. We have just over 300,000 cardholders in the scheme who make an average of 163 journeys each per annum—a total of 61.2 million journeys. The administrative cost to the councils is just over £18.5 million. The bulk of that is made up of compensation to the bus and other transport operators that provide the scheme. The basic principle on which the scheme operates is a flat fare—currently 35p—which is available for any journey of up to 10 miles that starts within the former Strathclyde area. We do not cater for long, cross-boundary journeys. For example, you could not travel to Edinburgh on the Strathclyde concession scheme. You could travel a maximum of 10 miles into an adjoining area.The scheme applies to rail and also to ferry services for those who live on an island or peninsula in the scheme area. For example, if you live in Dunoon, you can get a concession fare to Gourock. If you live in Gourock you cannot get a fare across to Dunoon. The scheme is geared towards essential journeys and to the residents of the area. The residence test that we apply is that someone has to be a council tax payer or resident in the area—that is the sole test of eligibility.For journeys in excess of 10 miles, the calculation is that we deduct the average fare for the 10 mile portion of the journey, and then the passenger pays 35p plus the additional cost for the extra mileage in the journey. That is how it applies on the bus. Because there is a national railway concessionary travel scheme that is half-fare based, for journeys over 10 miles, the charge is half the adult return fare. We have slightly different reimbursement principles for bus and rail journeys over 10 miles, but the scheme is basically geared towards relatively short journeys. The average journey length is about three miles.Compensation is based on reimbursing the operator for the revenue that it has lost because the concession fare is paid. You have already heard that we apply a generation factor of around 30 per cent; we calculate that about 30 per cent of the traffic carried at concession fare would not otherwise be carried by the operators. I do not want to disagree with the previous evidence, but there is a fair body of expert evidence about elasticity and the effects of different fare levels. We are confident in our approach to elasticity because the concessionary fare legislation allows an operator to appeal if it disagrees with our figures. There was an appeal in the early 1990s to the then Scottish Office when both the operator and ourselves had the opportunity to present evidence. The inquiry found in favour of the principles that Strathclyde adopted at that time, which provides external validation of the principles that we have used in applying a generation factor to our fare calculation.With regard to extending the scheme on a national basis, we have always taken the view that the scheme was designed primarily to cater for local journeys. To provide national travel involves new principles and a different category of travel from that which is catered for under our existing scheme. It would open up a different category of journey to existing cardholders in Strathclyde. It is difficult to predict the effect of incoming cardholders on the Strathclyde scheme. There has been interest for a long time at UK level in providing for national interavailability of travel concessions. It is a common complaint, for example, that when a cardholder goes on holiday in another part of Britain, they cannot get a concession. One must ask whether that is the purpose of the concession scheme.We have adopted two basic principles, which could be useful in informing consideration of a national scheme and how the reimbursements should operate. An important principle is that the cost of the scheme should not be borne by other passengers. Remember that public transport users, by and large, are not among the wealthiest sector of the community. It would be wrong for other passengers to cross-subsidise the journeys of concessionary passengers. This is a social obligation, so it should be met by the community, not internalised in the public transport sector. That principle is well established in the case law on concessionary travel schemes.The second principle has already been mentioned—that the bus operator should be no better and no worse off as a result of the operation of the scheme. That raises questions about the degree of generated travel, the amount of travel that would not otherwise have taken place. I accept that that involves dealing with hypotheticals as there is some imponderability, but it should be possible to establish reasonably accurately the extent to which travel is generated as a result of reduced fares.Moving to a national scheme would create a new set of circumstances. Categories of journey would be carried that are not at present part of any local authority scheme, so it would be necessary to carry out surveys and research if such a scheme were to be introduced. There are comparators that we could use. For example, there is the rail national commercial concessionary scheme for elderly people. That should provide data on the type and length of trips that pensioners would make if there were a national interavailable scheme on all modes of transport.On what was said earlier about franchise arrangements, I have no problem with building into the terms of any public transport concession an obligation to take concessionary travellers. We must respect the principle that the cost of providing that should be transparent and met from sources other than fare payers. As far as Strathclyde is concerned, I must declare an interest as we have a revenue interest in rail passenger carryings on the Strathclyde network. A national scheme that built that into the reimbursement arrangements for the ScotRail franchise would ultimately flow through Strathclyde Passenger Transport and back to the Scottish Executive, so money would go in a bit of a roundabout way. If rail passengers in Strathclyde were given a concessionary fare as part of the franchise agreement, the public purse would ultimately pick up the cost under present financing arrangements.That is all that I will say on the general introductory principles. I am happy to answer any questions that committee members may have."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 665367,
      "EditedText": "To be honest, I do not have much first-hand knowledge of continental practice. Generally, there is a greater willingness in Europe to build provision into the requirements of public transport operation, to meet certain social obligations.  However, that is matched by the fact that, in general, public support for public transport and the local or national subsidy are much higher and part of a package. The requirement to provide concessions for certain categories of passengers—famously, the war wounded, but also the wider groups of society that we have been discussing—can be explicitly built into a public service obligation under European law. In other British schemes, it is a matter of local priority. There is much to commend in the London scheme, which offers a wide travel area, but it is appropriate to a dense, built-up area. The Strathclyde area is comparable in some respects, but the public transport network is much less dense. One of the problems with concessionary travel schemes is that they are only as good as the available transport system. In a rural area, where the choice is limited in any case, the fine detail of the scheme is probably less important than ensuring that there is a bus to carry people when and where they need to travel. In general, the practice in rural areas has been to move towards half-fare schemes, as they are easy to understand and to administer. We have a mixed area and have therefore gone for a compromise, which builds in some distance relationship but which maintains the flat-fare notion that is typical of and quite common among UK schemes. In Strathclyde, we started off with a relatively low flat fare of 5p. To be honest, I have not tracked it against inflation, but we now charge 35p which, in UK terms, is quite expensive. We have no strong evidence of resistance by users to a particular level of fare when the fares are changed, although it becomes a political and emotive issue. Although there is some tailing-off of use—and we would expect that marginal journeys would be suppressed—and while the 35p fare may be higher than we would like to charge for social reasons, nevertheless it does not seem to be a significant deterrent to bus use. It is a question of whether one goes for a flat-fare scheme—or even a free scheme—or whether one implements a graduated scheme, which reflects more closely the fares that are charged to other members of the public."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 665368,
      "EditedText": "I would like to explore the difference between the rail scheme, although I appreciate that Strathclyde Passenger Transport does not administer it, and the bus scheme, which you do administer. Rail travel is obviously geared more towards journeys of more than 10 miles and allows beneficiaries to indulge in the sort of journeys that the rest of us enjoy—for leisure, shopping, family visits and holidays, for example. If our aim is to promote social inclusion, should not we seek to extend such benefits through bus schemes to people who do not have that facility? This may be saloon-bar wisdom, but, as off-peak, longer-range buses are running anyway, would there be substantial costs for operators and, therefore, ultimately for the public purse, if we extended such schemes to allow a more long-distance focus? What is your view on that, based on what you know about the rail scheme?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
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      "EditedText": "Perhaps I did not make myself clear. Our rail scheme runs in parallel with the national rail scheme. The difference between the Strathclyde scheme and the national rail scheme is, first, that we apply a 35p flat fare for journeys of up to 10 miles on the local rail network, where—it is probably fair to say—journeys tend to be longer than on the bus network. Secondly, unlike the national railway scheme, we do not charge for a card. Therefore, someone living in Strathclyde who wants to travel by rail within the Strathclyde boundary can get benefits close to those offered under the national scheme without having to pay the up-front cost of a card. The national rail scheme is a commercial product offered by the railway companies, which have calculated—to pick up on your logic—that it is worth carrying the extra passengers generated by a half-fare scheme for the elderly: the extra fares that those passengers bring into the railway system, plus the flat fare for the card, more than outweigh the cost of any loss of revenue that results from people who would previously have paid the full fare paying the half fare. A number of bus and coach operators have made the same calculation: that it is commercially worth while to carry passengers on long-distance services at a concessionary rate, as long as the catchment area and target market are defined and the scheme is treated as a marketing exercise. However, when one extends the principle of people in certain categories having an automatic entitlement to reduced rate travel—whatever the distance—the issue that then arises is, who pays? If we say, for example, that someone living in Scotland should have a right to half-price travel by coach or rail to London, do we then extend that right to travel on the airlines? The issue raises questions about modal comparisons. One of the important principles that we have followed in the Strathclyde scheme is the use of marginal capacity—we are filling seats that would otherwise be empty. As long as that principle applies, the logic that you suggested applies. The difficulty is that different types of transport have different load factors and different displacement effects. For example, we do not as a rule allow concessionary travellers to travel before 9 o'clock, because the buses are busy and there is a risk that a concessionary traveller would displace a full fare paying traveller. The bus company would rightly want compensation for that. It is a question of judgment and, ultimately—as the previous witnesses have said—of how such schemes are paid for. It is a political choice, which it is open to the Scottish Parliament to make."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 665377,
      "EditedText": "If the questions are brief."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 665379,
      "EditedText": "The assumption was wrong."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 665380,
      "EditedText": "It is an option."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 665382,
      "EditedText": "Does Argyll and Bute do complementary things, similar to what Aberdeenshire does in tendering for bus routes that would not otherwise be viable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 665384,
      "EditedText": "So Argyll and Bute is outwith your scheme, but it provides a supplement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 665400,
      "EditedText": "We went down that route for the blind scheme because of the small number involved. There is concern that the scheme will continue to be extended and that the operators will be expected to meet the cost. That is not possible without putting up fares."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Reid: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 665389,
      "EditedText": "Ultimately, fuel duty rebate is one element. Fares have been kept relatively stable in Strathclyde for the past couple of years despite the reduction in the effectiveness of the rebate.How an extended concessionary scheme would be funded should be determined nationally. Fuel duty rebate is one way of doing it. My concern is that fuel duty rebate is a blanket rebate. Transparency would be lost and we would not be aware of how many passengers were being carried on each route. The result could be, in effect, to give a blanket subsidy to operators with little accountability for what they were providing.This is not an issue to which I had given much thought before Mr MacAskill asked the question, but the fuel duty rebate seems to me to be something of a blunt tool. Our dialogue with the operators about reimbursement and about the calculation has proved a useful discipline for both sides. It helps us to understand passenger needs and helps the operator to know what proportion of their costs is attributable to carrying concessionary travel cardholders. There needs to be some element of accountability—some way of tracking that the funding is matched by an uptake of benefits.Mr MacAskill asked about building concessionary travel into quality partnerships or quality contracts. As a matter of course, we expect any of our subsidised bus operators to carry concessionary passengers as part of the contract. Obviously, it would be easy to extend that. Under the concessionary fare legislation, there are powers to serve a participation notice on an operator, so we already have a legislative means of compelling participation. At issue is whether we consider a different reimbursement mechanism and wrap up concessionary travel reimbursement in the arrangements for a quality contract or quality partnership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger (Confederation of Passenger Transport UK): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 665391,
      "EditedText": "Copies of the presentation have now arrived—better late than never."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 665392,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Marjory. Would you like them to be handed out before you speak? David will take care of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 665404,
      "EditedText": "You are talking about rural areas and social inclusion. The fuel duty rebate was brought in for environmental reasons. I am not arguing with those reasons, but the Government may wish to have a bigger overall review of funding so that rural areas—where fuel costs are recognised as being very high—might receive more help. It is not up to the industry to say how that should be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 665405,
      "EditedText": "Would you accept that the extension of FDR is a practical way for the industry to be subsidised directly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 665407,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify something in your presentation. On the first page you say:\"Turnover would go down—but so would costs.\"Can you elaborate on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 665409,
      "EditedText": "It is fairly marginal then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 665411,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. I lost the thread of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marjory Rodger: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 665413,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I followed you most of the way but lost you at the end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 665414,
      "EditedText": "I was trying to ask whether you think the bus operators are trying to pull a fast one in Fife by continually withdrawing services from rural areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 665419,
      "EditedText": "Marjory, you mentioned that operators must be treated fairly under concessionary travel schemes. The converse is that travellers must be treated fairly too. You say that if the local authority says there is no money to reimburse the operator there is no incentive for the latter to make additional investment. Would you say that the operators have a responsibility in the current climate of social inclusion to consider how they could make further investment, irrespective of the reimbursement from local authorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 665427,
      "EditedText": "Thanks very much, Bob. Do members have any questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 665428,
      "EditedText": "I was interested to hear your remarks about your commitment to social inclusion. Does your company have plans to improve specific rural services?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 665433,
      "EditedText": "Can Bob comment, or provide a commercial slant, on the implications of extending concessionary schemes to cover people who want to use buses at peak times?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bob Montgomery: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 665434,
      "EditedText": "Extending concessionary schemes into the morning peak, in particular, would increase demand. In the morning peak, most of our businesses are at capacity or close to capacity. If the extension of the scheme increased demand and the fare was relatively low, there would be implications in terms of being neither better off nor worse off. The balance of the fare would have to be covered, but we would also incur additional costs. The reason why most local authorities avoid the morning peak is that there is a significant cost factor. We would have to buy buses and employ drivers who would work for only about half an hour a day. That would be very expensive.In many concessionary fare categories, time is not critical. It is possible to move the journey past 9 am or past 9.30 am, depending on the authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Concessionary Travel",
      "HeadingID": 25724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 665439,
      "EditedText": "Yes, thank you, Bob. I thank all the participants this morning, from COSLA, SPT, CPT UK and FirstGroup. The evidence has been useful. If the committee wants to take the matter further, we will have an informal discussion at the end of the meeting to examine the terms of reference of any inquiry that we may want to undertake."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Glasgow) Designation Order 1999 (SSI 1999/59)",
      "HeadingID": 25726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 25726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 665441,
      "EditedText": "This instrument was laid on 13 September and is subject to annulment until 6 November. As the committee was notified, the Subordinate Legislation Committee considered the instrument on 21 September and decided to draw it to the attention of the Parliament on the following grounds:\"(i)   that its drafting appears to be defective; and(ii)   that its form or meaning could be clearer. (iii)  that it makes unexpectedly narrow use of the powers under which it is made.\"The Subordinate Legislation Committee's report is attached. Are there any other views on the paper, or are members content?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Glasgow) Designation Order 1999 (SSI 1999/59)",
      "HeadingID": 25726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 665442,
      "EditedText": "If we say that we are happy with it, do the points raised by the Subordinate Legislation Committee still stand?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Glasgow) Designation Order 1999 (SSI 1999/59)",
      "HeadingID": 25726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 665443,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic Act 1991 (Amendment of Schedule 3) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/61)",
      "HeadingID": 25728,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25728,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 665446,
      "EditedText": "This order was laid on 13 September and is subject to annulment until 6 November.The Subordinate Legislation Committee considered the instrument on 21 September and had nothing to report. Are we content with that? We are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3965
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25730,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ID": 25730,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 665450,
      "EditedText": "I have no difficulty with that. We will ask the clerk to find out the issues that Comhairle nan Eilean Siar wants to raise with us. The problem with attendance is not money, but our short-term work programme. I take Kenny's point on board. When we have more details about what the organisation has to say, we will see how that would affect our work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5462572+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 603707,
      "EditedText": "Does that include the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "C603658",
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      "ID": 3352
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 6 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:33"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 6 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 603659,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Johann Lamont of the Equal Opportunities Committee to the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 603669,
      "EditedText": "I mean aftercare in terms of jobs."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 603670,
      "EditedText": "So it is related only to work?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 603671,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The plan team has laid special stress on the fact that, although it is all very well providing the young unemployed with training to help them to get a job, they also need continuing support after they have got a job to ensure that they do not fall back into unemployment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 603673,
      "EditedText": "Indeed we have."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 603666,
      "EditedText": "I was just using Clackmannanshire as an example."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka (Scottish European Structural Fund Objective 3 Partnership): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 603662,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I have not brought slides because I know that time is tight, but I am giving out a handout, the last page of which gives a useful overview of the structure of the plan. I will take the committee through the second priority—which deals with social exclusion—in detail.The second priority of the new objective 3 plan for 2000-06 focuses support on disadvantaged groups, including black and ethnic minorities, people with disabilities, the homeless, former drug users, the educationally disadvantaged and workless households. We are also trying to support those excluded on the basis of gender, which links into the equal opportunities priority in the plan.The priority complements current policy direction and addresses exclusion on different levels. Area-concentrated exclusion will be tackled in defined urban and rural communities. Thematic groups—those that are not normally spatially concentrated—will be addressed Scotland-wide.In parallel with the strong focus on meaningful partnerships, which is a theme in the Scottish social inclusion strategy, all project sponsors involved in delivering projects through that priority will be expected to demonstrate integrated activities within the project. Across that pattern are agencies that will be involved to demonstrate genuine co-ordination and joint working.The plan team recognised that some disadvantaged groups tend to be geographically concentrated. To take account of the different needs of urban and rural areas, separate measures have been developed to support them. Those measures are detailed in the handout under priority 2. The measure dealing with capacity building takes account of the fact that the organisations that are involved in community economic development in Scotland, and that deliver training and support to those excluded groups on which we want to focus, are often community and voluntary based. That raises issues of organisational and managerial capacity, which can constrain the effectiveness of such organisations in delivering targeted training and support.I am going to take the measures one by one and say more about their rationale in terms of development and the action that we propose to take. The non-geographically targeted measure, which addresses the exclusion of thematic groups, is designed to engage excluded individuals and to focus on raising aspirations and changing perceptions of training. The measure will focus support on ethnic minorities, people with disabilities and the other groups that I mentioned, as well as on those with literacy and numeracy difficulties, young people leaving care, ex-offenders and the older unemployed. Common barriers for those groups are individual skills deficits and negative perceptions on the part of employers and the wider community.The activities that we will cover are guidance and counselling, pre-vocational training, vocational training in relation to core skills, information technology and work-related activities. The theme of aftercare runs through all the measures; we need to support people in training or employment and to maintain their momentum. Overall, we are aiming to reduce the level of exclusion of those groups by supporting access to training and employment and by incrementing the number of opportunities. That is the case for all the measures.I shall now describe the two geographically targeted measures, the first of which addresses urban exclusion. The Scottish social inclusion strategy recognised that, in some cases, whole communities suffer from exclusion. There is also strong evidence to suggest that most of those communities are located in urban areas. A recent Scottish Executive study found that 77 per cent of multiply deprived households are located in predominantly urban areas. That is a brief explanation of why we have adopted this measure, whose purpose is to develop effective links between the excluded individuals and employment opportunities. We aim to deliver better quality and more relevant support and training and to engage employers in designing and delivering activities that will help to combat negative perceptions. The types of activities are the same as before, but they also include awareness raising and good-practice training for employers and organisations that are involved in delivering projects to those groups. There is also scope, under this measure, for innovative pilot projects for different approaches. Any jobless person who is resident in the designated urban areas will be eligible for support. Although this measure is targeted geographically, it is expected that projects will address those groups that tend to be concentrated in urban areas—for example, those who live in workless households, the older long-term unemployed and those who are recovering from substance abuse.Social exclusion of communities is not necessarily an urban phenomenon. A recent study found that there were 46,000 multiply deprived households in rural areas, which is 8 per cent of all rural households. The second measure is targeted on rural areas. It is designed to increase access to appropriate training and assistance for targeted groups, to improve access to employment and to engage employers. Support for guidance and counselling, and additional support, such as assistance with transport, are particularly rural issues. Because of low critical mass in rural areas, there will be flexibility in putting together projects to deal with a variety of the target client groups. We recognise that the lists in the plan are not exhaustive; projects may take guidance from rural development strategies or from their own experience to identify other relevant target client groups.The objectives of the capacity-building measure are to increase the number of organisations that receive support for activities. Its purpose is to address social exclusion, to improve the quality of funding bids to support such projects and primarily to increase the quality of support that those organisations provide. Activities would include organisation and management audits, training and project development, management and financial issues and the research and dissemination of best practice, so that the impact will be on-going.The measure is targeted on those organisations and intermediary bodies that provide European structural fund support to the groups. The partners are likely to be the voluntary sector, further education and local development organisations. The overall aim is to increase the organisational capacity of those bodies to deliver more effective and efficient support to the target groups throughout the programme area, which is lowland Scotland.That has been a brief, but I hope useful, overview of the approach to social exclusion in the plan. If there are any more detailed points, please ask and I hope that we can answer your questions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 603676,
      "EditedText": "Those are your woolly-jumper professionals again, Alex."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603680",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3352
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 603680,
      "EditedText": "Has it commented on your proposal?"
    },
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  {
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 603681,
      "EditedText": "Not as such. We would not normally expect it to comment in the same way as other partners, given that it is part of the UK Government. There will be an opportunity for it to make its input once the plan comes to government.You were concerned about training and employment links and outputs from the plan. That ties in with the impact of the programme. We have yet to establish a system of performance targets for each of the measures in the plan, which we are required to do before the plan is formally submitted to the Scottish Executive. We will do that once we know what resources will be available for the plan, since that determines the kind of outputs that we can assess.There was also a point about overall training expenditure in Scotland—I cannot confirm anything at this stage. I am conscious that while the European social fund is a player in the training market, if I can use such a term, it is not the most important player. We are there to provide additional value. The main role of training will continue to fall to the existing organisations in the field, particularly the local enterprise company network, the further and higher education colleges, the Department for Education and Employment and the voluntary sector. The collective resources that they are putting in greatly exceeds anything that the European social fund can contribute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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      "ID": 18283,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 603682,
      "EditedText": "I have two points. The draft plan sets five objectives and five priorities, which are interlinked. Is objective 1 more important than objective 5, or are they all equally important?My second point relates to the disabled. I appreciate that there is a specific objective relating to the gender barrier, and that that is high up on your agenda. However, when I read the document I was struck by the fact that there is relatively little emphasis on the disabled, as far as one can judge. For example, the document states that 312,850 people currently claim invalidity benefit or severe disabled allowance, and that in Glasgow the incidence of claims is almost twice as high as in other comparable UK cities. That indicates that the place of the disabled in employment is a major Scottish issue. I should have thought that it would have been emphasised more in the draft report. Can you give me any comfort on that or suggest how tackling the problems of the disabled might be given a higher profile?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 603689,
      "EditedText": "Transport and accessibility?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18283,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 603693,
      "EditedText": "I think that you were asking about equality of opportunity. All project sponsors will need to demonstrate flexibility about training hours, access for people with disabilities, work environment, including transport, and child care, which is key. The plan team recognises that women and men have different experiences of exclusion. Women in rural areas might experience attitudinal barriers to work, for instance.I emphasise that the after-care aspect has been taken on board by the team and it will be in at the beginning. We will learn from the experience of the new deal and from other initiatives. As Fiona Hyslop said, the voluntary sector has experience of building systems into projects for measuring the progression of individuals. Throughout the exclusion priority, and all the priorities, a key factor will be an assessment of the experience of each of the projects in relation to the relevant client group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 603695,
      "EditedText": "I will answer that. I think that this is linked to the capacity building issue. Many of the discussions that the plan team had, led us to include the capacity building measure in the priority. We aim to build the capacity of those organisations involved in community economic development. We measure impact in relation to capacity building work, which we do under the current objective 3 programme. That part of the programme did not kick in until late 1998.Overall, there is an assessment that the take-up of ESF by voluntary organisations increased from approximately 20 per cent to 37 or 38 per cent as a result of that measure. The capacity building measure is key to continuing the take-up of funds; there is scope for that within the new programme. There is also a capacity building measure under the lifelong learning priority and it is recognised that the voluntary sector will be a key partner across the programme, as is currently the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 603700,
      "EditedText": "There are areas in Dundee that are not SIP areas, but which are only slightly better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 18283,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 603701,
      "EditedText": "Not all the funds within the addressing social exclusion priority will be focused on specific areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 603719,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and members of the committee have things to say on the subject.Could two people volunteer to go?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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      "ID": 18283,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 603720,
      "EditedText": "I will go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 603722,
      "EditedText": "Thanks very much. You can keep us informed.Keith has to leave now. Bye, Keith. Bye, Johann."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 603723,
      "EditedText": "We agreed at the last meeting, after we had had an informative presentation from the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, that we had to have a structure for taking forward the points that were raised, some of which are short term, some of which are long term.We have the paperwork in front of us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 603724,
      "EditedText": "I do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 603726,
      "EditedText": "Oh, sorry. I have it in front of me. That must be the privilege of being convener. It was circulated, apparently. Perhaps people who are not comfortable with information technology do not get these things.The paperwork is a useful reminder of what was raised at the last meeting. The feeling is that some points need to be pursued, particularly some of the more substantial points, such as charity law—we need to take a view on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 603734,
      "EditedText": "Alex has given us a helpful suggestion. We will come back to the specifics."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
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      "ID": 18284,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 603735,
      "EditedText": "Last week's meeting was constructive and the SCVO gave us helpful suggestions about what we should consider.How would other members of the committee feel about setting up a sub-group to do work on the voluntary sector? I am conscious that we have a heavy work load, but many members have a great deal of interest and expertise in the voluntary sector and may want to continue with that work, alongside the work of the committee. They could do in-depth, detailed work on matters such as Scottish Criminal Record Office checks and charity law. That would help to take the work of the committee forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603736",
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      "ID": 3352
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 603736,
      "EditedText": "The Executive considers SCRO checks to be a matter for the Minister for Justice, rather than for the Minister for Communities, so anything Jackie or Wendy say on them is fairly irrelevant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 603737,
      "EditedText": "Karen's suggestion is very good. I want to highlight two issues that came up in the discussion, apart from those that have been mentioned. The first relates to the practicalities of longer-term funding and the red tape that people have to negotiate to obtain it. We could look at what we can do to help. The second issue concerns the new deal and the effectiveness of some of the training programmes. That is a rather more esoteric matter, but we could come up with ways of exploring it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 603741,
      "EditedText": "We have a number of options. Far be it from me to try to broker a compromise—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 603747,
      "EditedText": "Karen has just talked herself into a job."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 603754,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that if this continues to fall on deaf ears, we should write to the First Minister, as it is an important issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 603756,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 603758,
      "EditedText": "We need to pursue this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 603759,
      "EditedText": "I am totally in favour of the idea that we should be consulted before announcements. However, the responsibility then falls on this committee not to rush into the press to pre-empt ministerial announcements. SNP announcements in advance of those of ministers will kibosh the whole thing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 603761,
      "EditedText": "The usual procedure is that early warning is given a couple of hours before the press hears an announcement. It might be enough to get press releases at the same time as the press did, even if they were then embargoed for a couple of hours. We will never be in the position in which ministers give us all advance warning of a day or more."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 603764,
      "EditedText": "I missed the previous meeting—I hope my apologies were tendered—so I am out of kilter on where the committee is on this. I understood from the discussions that we had before the ministers came that we were rightly annoyed that an announcement had been made just hours before they came before the committee.As we are independent of the Executive, do we have the right to demand early warning? Will we always be looking for notice of ministers' announcements? We are here to scrutinise the Executive, but if we receive information before it becomes public, we become part of that establishment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 603770,
      "EditedText": "We should bear in mind that the ministerial statement is press embargoed. The press will not use that story and break the embargo. They may well have got the Opposition quotes lined up, but that obviates the problem that John anticipates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 603773,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We must bear in mind that that will be an interim report; the ad hoc group can bring us only an update.I have been asked by the committee to liaise with Roseanna Cunningham, the convener of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, about making a contribution to the proposed warrant sales legislation. The committee is keen to express its views on that.I am summarising our decisions. Have I missed anything out?Alex Neil and Keith Raffan will represent the committee at the meeting of the European Committee on 19 October to discuss objective 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 603774,
      "EditedText": "We agreed to meet for a briefing session on the Friday or Monday of the last week of each month. I do not think that that has been built into the timetable until the end of November, but I am expecting that it will not happen until the end of December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 603775,
      "EditedText": "That will all be finalised.I remind members that particular issues about timetabling or concerns that matters have fallen off the agenda should be brought to the briefing session on 25 October. We will then prepare the formal timetable for 27 October. That will help matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 603687,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, some initiatives will hit each of the priorities, and I am assuming that you will want to weight them accordingly. In the Lothians, a number of job losses have been announced, but so have new jobs. However, the women at Levi Strauss, for example, will have a problem with transport. I would like to know what priority has been given to identifying some of the cross-priorities. If West Lothian and Clackmannanshire are stripped of assisted area status, people will have to travel and transport will be the key factor in addressing the social exclusion that is linked to employability. Money could be invested in the A801 to help people travel from the Armadale area up to Falkirk, for example. When you talk about measures, I assume that you mean initiatives that can be measured. What measurements would you take?I am glad that you have identified mentoring as a key area, but we should look at the experience of the new deal, where mentoring has been an afterthought. The voluntary sector has picked it up. If you want to engage with, for example, the employment service, you should do so prior to going to the UK Government. There should be close consultation on this subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 603745,
      "EditedText": "There are technical difficulties with setting up a sub-group. Some members may be talking themselves into this, but we could appoint a reporter to do what is necessary in the short term to keep track of the issue. In the longer term, we may have time to address it properly. That is most likely to be the case after Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:47.390724+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 603694,
      "EditedText": "I will keep my question short. I am sure that you appreciate how important the voluntary sector is as an employer, David. What impact do you think the new operational programme will have on the ability of voluntary organisations to access funding? Will there be new opportunities for voluntary organisations to access new funding?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers (Development Department, Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
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      "EditedText": "Good morning everyone.First, I will introduce my colleague and myself. Heather Koronka is the programme director for objective 3 and a member of the plan team that has prepared the document that you have today. I am from the European social fund branch of the Scottish Executive development department and I have been convener of the plan team that prepared the plan. I am aware that we have only a limited time for this presentation. I propose to provide the committee with a brief outline of the plan and its strategic context. Afterwards, Heather will discuss how the plan will address social inclusion.The plan is not at this stage an Executive document. It has been prepared by, and remains in the ownership of, the Scottish objective 3 plan team. The plan team contains representatives of the key partners, including the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the Scottish Enterprise network, the voluntary sector, the Scottish Council of National Training Organisations, the further and higher education sectors and the Equal Opportunities Commission. We have also had the benefit of the occasional participation of the Scottish Trades Union Congress, the Confederation of British Industry Scotland and the Scottish Council for Development and Industry.The plan team has been meeting since February, mostly fortnightly. That has entailed a massive commitment of time and effort on the part of the people involved. I would like to record my appreciation for the diligence of the plan team staff and the constructive way in which the team has engaged with its task. In the next month, ownership of the plan will transfer to the Scottish Executive before it is formally submitted to the European Commission. The plan is a draft and is incomplete. I appreciate that the committee would have preferred to have seen a complete version, but the plan team's timetable meant that that was not possible.When the plan team got to the stage of thrashing out priorities and the measures in the plan, it considered it appropriate to seek the views of the wider partnership, even though we had not developed the financial tables or the performance targets that will accompany the plan. I am satisfied that the main strategy of the plan is right. If we wanted meaningful consultation with the wider partnership, the plan had to be brought into the light of day. I offer a caveat. The draft plan has been written with one audience in mind—directorate-general V of the European Commission. It has not been written with a view to telling a general audience or even the wider partnership what we propose to do with European social fund assistance. The composition and structure of the plan follow the guidance that we have had from DG V and the result is not particularly reader-friendly.I should perhaps pre-empt one of the committee's first questions by saying something about the financial value of the proposed programme. The amount to be allocated to the new programme has yet to be finalised. Scottish Executive ministers and Scotland Office ministers, acting in co-operation, are still discussing with their Whitehall counterparts the Scottish share of the UK allocation under objective 3. Whatever the outcome of the negotiations between ministers, it is clear that we will have less European social fund expenditure under the new programme than is available through existing programmes. That reflects the overall reductions in structural funds expenditure. As a result, we need to maximise the impact of ESF in the new programme, which is why we have put so much effort into designing and developing the plan.On the strategic context of the plan, I should explain that the European social fund is increasingly being seen as a mechanism to reinforce the European Union's employment strategy. That strategy is based on the so-called four pillars: employability, adaptability, entrepreneurship and equal opportunities. However, the strategy may better be seen as a process whereby, each year, the member states produce national action plans for employment in response to EU employment guidelines.Last year, for the first time, and largely at the insistence of the UK, the employment guidelines included a requirement to address social exclusion from labour markets. Accordingly, this year, the UK's national employment action plan provides us with specific cover to use the social fund to address social exclusion.The new European social fund regulation also reflects the importance of social exclusion. The plan that we have prepared for the Scottish objective 3 operational programme is consistent with the EU employment strategy and guidelines, the national employment action plan and the ESF regulation. That policy superstructure has effectively dictated the main priorities of the programme, which correspond fairly closely with the five policy fields that are set out in the regulation.The main priorities of the programme are: first, the development of active labour markets to promote employment, in particular by offering training suitable to the needs of the unemployed; secondly, to address social exclusion from labour markets—Heather will expand on that in a moment; thirdly, to promote employability skills and mobility through lifelong learning, particularly by modernising the training sector and by developing online content and associated soft infrastructure; fourthly, to develop adaptability, particularly in the context of retraining the existing work force and by encouraging entrepreneurship; and finally, to take positive action to assist women in the labour market and, more widely, to address gender imbalance in the labour market.I should add that there are a number of cross-cutting priorities, including equal opportunities and lifelong learning, which we are required to build into the plan horizontally. I hope that I have provided the committee with sufficient context to appreciate what we intend to do about social exclusion. I will now ask Heather to present that aspect of the plan."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 603668,
      "EditedText": "You said aftercare, so—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 603663,
      "EditedText": "Thank you—you did a very good job of summarising all that difficult paperwork.We have some time to discuss this broadly before perhaps homing in on one or two themes. I think everybody would like to ask questions. Keith, you lead us off."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 603664,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to discuss this too broadly. The trouble with going through all European Union documents is that it is like reading a foreign language. I would like to translate this one down to ground level, taking a territorial example and a specific thematic example, to use the jargon.Clackmannanshire in my constituency has high unemployment and has suffered a lot of redundancies recently. I presume that, to maximise the impact of objective 3, the local authorities and the local enterprise network would be the lead applicants.This committee will be holding an inquiry into substance abuse, and I want to know how we can help substance abusers. You spoke about people in recovery—can objective 3 funding be used in any way for rehabilitation or treatment? Can it be used for aftercare or is it for getting recovering addicts back into jobs?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603679",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 603679,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of difficult issues there, to say the least. I cannot comment on Cadence Design Systems, as I am not up to date on precisely what has happened there, but I am happy to talk about crisis situations generally. There are two possibilities of ESF support in crisis situations. The first is that we can assist work forces that are threatened with redundancy. That sometimes happens when closures are announced, but it is intended that the redundancies will happen some way down the track. In such circumstances, ESF can help by providing retraining for the work force. The other possibility is that once redundancies have been made, ESF can, in certain circumstances, assist with training redundant employees and helping them back into jobs.However, the complexities associated with applying to the European social fund and difficulties related to the timing of rounds of applications mean that the fund has not been particularly helpful in such crisis situations. Bearing in mind that there is nothing that ESF can do that the Scottish Enterprise network cannot, it might be preferable to allow the network to react to closure situations without the added complication of ESF. I am not necessarily advocating that as a specific role, but it could be argued that in those circumstances the enterprise network can respond more swiftly and flexibly than the European social fund.Having said that, we need to make some form of provision in the new plan to cover such circumstances. The intention of the plan team is that resources would be available for retraining existing work forces and dealing with employees in large-scale redundancies. We recognise that the Department for Education and Employment is one of the main players in the employment and unemployment field, particularly in the implementation of such measures as the new deal. In general, we maintain close touch with the department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 603685,
      "EditedText": "What about the priorities?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603686",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
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      "EditedText": "In theory, no one priority is more important than any other, but much will depend on the allocation of finance to priorities. As the committee will appreciate, it is difficult for the plan team to complete its discussions on the allocation of resources within the programme without knowing the total value of that allocation. However, I can give you a flavour of the team's thinking, if that would be helpful.First, we have acknowledged that priority 5, equal opportunities, and priority 3, lifelong learning, will be horizontal priorities throughout the programme as well as vertical priorities in the programme. For that reason, there is perhaps less need to devote substantial resources to the relevant vertical priorities. We will need to put more resources into priority 4, on a competitive work force and entrepreneurship, but the priorities that require most expenditure are likely to be priority 1, the active labour market, and priority 2, social exclusion. In finalising the proposed allocation of resources to the individual priorities—and, indeed, to individual measures—we need to take account of need and opportunity, in addition to the strategic and policy context that I outlined earlier."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603688",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 603688,
      "EditedText": "I should admit that I am guilty of using rather a lot of euro-jargon. In euro-jargon, the plan can be described as being categorised into priorities, which are the main divisions of the plan. Each priority consists of several measures. Applicants will apply for their projects under particular measures. The projects might vary in nature from the wider initiatives to which Fiona Hyslop was referring, down to individual training projects.I will ask Heather to pick up the point about—I am losing my place here."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 603696,
      "EditedText": "The draft makes it very clear that the Scottish work force is aging; the number of over-40s—like me—is increasing, and the number of under-25-year-olds is decreasing. You say that you want to give a high priority to raising the employability of older people, because long-term levels of unemployment are significantly higher among the older unemployed than in any other group. However, that does not seem to tie in with the current programmes for tackling unemployment in Scotland. In particular, the new deal has only pilot projects for the over-50s, whereas £300 million is allocated for the 18 to 25 age group and nothing like that is allocated for over-25s who have been unemployed for more than two years. What are you doing to tell the Department for Education and Employment that it is focusing spending on the wrong areas in the Scottish work force?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603699",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
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      "EditedText": "As you will notice from the current priority structure, not all the funds being focused on social exclusion will be geographically targeted. Geographical targeting was introduced in recognition of the fact that certain groups were concentrated. Workless households, for example, tend to be concentrated in urban areas. Funds are available under the priority, across lowland Scotland, to tackle social exclusion. Does that answer your question?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603711",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
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      "EditedText": "We would like to build as much flexibility as we can into the original plan. I recognise that it will last for seven years. After three years, we have to conduct a mid-term assessment, which will enable us to make adjustments to the plan. As you say, that will require the agreement of the Commission. In the meantime, we have to rely on the flexibility that we will have built into the priorities and measures."
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 603705,
      "EditedText": "I hope that you will forgive me if I ask a couple of things that may have obvious answers. You talked about child care, which, when considering gender barriers, is an obvious subject to address. For a lot of women help with child care is all that they need. They need support to be able to go and work and, while they are there, they need their children to be somewhere safe. But the child care needs to be very secure. I wonder whether there is a gap: while they are training, women are offered a lot of child care support, but at a later stage, either the child care project is not there any more or they are not able to access it. As women move into secure work, are efforts being made to ensure that their child care remains secure so that they can stay in work? That would be difficult if their support was withdrawn.I find this whole issue very complex. I know that expertise is being built up in a lot of areas so that people are able to bid for or apply for funding. Is there any evidence that groups that are less organised, and more likely to be marginalised or deprived, are not accessing funds because they do not have access to professional bidders? There is a hierarchy within the excluded. If you are fortunate enough to have a strong voluntary organisation that has been built up over a long time, you are more likely to access funds than marginal groups. A group that lobbied us early on was a group of people with multiple sensory impairments. I do not know what its success rate is for accessing funds, but that group strikes me as one that may be excluded simply because it does not have access to people who can bid on their behalf."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 603706,
      "EditedText": "The ESF has always been able to help to meet the cost of providing child care while the parent is undergoing training, and we are trying to reinforce that. In the new programme, we will expect applicants for funds to provide child care for single parents or for parents who are at work. In the longer term, we want to encourage employers to provide adequate child care facilities. One of the aims of the programme, especially in priority 5, is to assist companies to change their culture with regard to family-friendly policies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18283,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 603712,
      "EditedText": "Once we have measured the success or otherwise of a project, can we go back, through the Executive, to the Commission and say, \"Sorry, it might not be working. We should perhaps change the emphasis\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 603713,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we can always do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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      "ID": 18283,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 603715,
      "EditedText": "It is really the same point as Cathie, which follows on from Johann. You said that the crucial thing is not lead applicants but working partnerships. What worries me is how small-scale those applications can be. Do those small organisations, which may have a good objective and a good idea about what they want to do, have to get involved with bigger organisations to make their application feasible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18283,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 603716,
      "EditedText": "That is not necessarily the case, although a project can often be delivered through a partnership, either of smaller organisations only or of smaller organisations working with an umbrella body. On the related subject of access, as a programme executive performing tasks on behalf of the Scottish Executive in relation to the management of the programme, we have many awareness-raising activities. We run seminars and meet groups from various sectors on a regular basis. Those are some of our key tasks and our intention is to continue that.I hope that that aspect of programme management—improving accessibility, combined with the capacity building measures that we have discussed this morning—will be sufficient. The applicants always have access, whether through the internet, newsletters or the exchange of best practice. Those mechanisms will continue. There is no minimum project size. All projects are taken on their merits."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 603728,
      "EditedText": "We will put that as a standing item on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 603729,
      "EditedText": "Another priority that was mentioned was the financial impact on the voluntary organisation of criminal record checks. I think the figure was £3 million—or was it £10 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 603730,
      "EditedText": "It was £3 million."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 603732,
      "EditedText": "The minister raised that issue when we had a debate in the Chamber on the voluntary sector. She said that she was going to monitor the situation closely; £3 million is an awful lot of money for voluntary organisations to pay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 603733,
      "EditedText": "What is important is not just the initial £3 million cost, but how long those checks remain relevant. How often will organisations have to conduct the tests? Alex is right: we might get some detail on the matter in tomorrow's debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 603740,
      "EditedText": "I disagree. It would be helpful for us to set up a sub-group on the voluntary sector, as that would be one way in which to progress work that cannot be progressed at meetings of the full committee because of the pressure on our agenda. When the sub-group is established, I hope that it will focus on the central issue—bringing stability to voluntary organisations' funding. They are reft with instability at the moment, and this committee should address that as a matter of priority. The sub-group could take the issue on and report back to the committee on what has been achieved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 603742,
      "EditedText": "That is usually my role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 603743,
      "EditedText": "It is not usually mine, I can assure the committee. We could appoint a reporter, as we have done for housing, to co-ordinate the different aspects of the issue. That would have the advantage of getting round the technical difficulty of formally establishing a sub-committee. I am not necessarily against that, but if we choose that course we will have to make a formal submission to the Parliamentary Bureau and obtain its approval. John might still favour our embarking on that process, as it would not prohibit our doing work in the short term. However, as Fiona said, it would take us a while to get started. I have an open mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
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      "ID": 18284,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 603744,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Fiona: the committee has some important priorities, but SCVO gave us an excellent presentation and is now looking to us to act. The committee cannot at the moment concentrate on the issues that SCVO raised, but we could make progress by setting up a sub-group, which people could feed into from time to time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 603746,
      "EditedText": "Again, I will take on Alex's mantle and negotiate here. We should appoint a reporter today to pursue short-term issues in particular. It might be that I will write to people and that we will wait for the results of the investigation by the University of Abertay Dundee. We may have to come back to some of the bigger issues—long-term funding is a huge issue. We should certainly flag up at the conveners committee that we are beginning to think along these lines. We should bear in mind that we may get refused by the Parliamentary Bureau. Appointing a reporter will at least get us started. Is that okay?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 603748,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that Robert and others have experience as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 603749,
      "EditedText": "Lloyd will lead for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 603750,
      "EditedText": "Yes—sorry, Lloyd. It is understood that reporters will always consult committee colleagues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 603751,
      "EditedText": "In short, there will be a sub-group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 603755,
      "EditedText": "Can we give the Parliamentary Bureau one more shot? I am expecting a response to my earlier letter. I will write again following this meeting. If we do not get an appropriate response we will come back to the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 603760,
      "EditedText": "I am assuming that we will be responsible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18285,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 603762,
      "EditedText": "That is the new politics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 603765,
      "EditedText": "I hope that that will not happen. We are only asking for notice of a couple of hours. It is only for information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 603766,
      "EditedText": "The same courtesy has been offered to Opposition spokespeople on various matters from an early stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 603769,
      "EditedText": "That is the type of thing that we are looking for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 603772,
      "EditedText": "Martin is updating the timetable; we will have a report from the sub-group under the heading of social inclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 603776,
      "EditedText": "In the private session, the committee charged you, convener, with reviewing the issue of public and private sessions. I think that that should be recorded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18285,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 603777,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Alex.We have private sessions mainly to address housekeeping issues and to speed up the formal session. The general feeling is that that works well. However, we do not wish to give the impression that those sessions are in any way exclusive, or that we are hiding issues. We need to think through the differences between private meetings, informal meetings and public meetings. The view of the committee is that we should meet in public as much as possible. I will seek clarification on that and make a recommendation to the committee at the next meeting, which will probably be on 27 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 603778,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:48."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 603660,
      "EditedText": "I move straight to the presentation on the European structural fund objective 3 partnership—I have tried to learn that off by heart.Thank you for agreeing to give us a presentation, Heather—I will not even attempt your second name—and David. We will ask you to give your presentation and then the members will ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 603674,
      "EditedText": "One of the key mechanisms, which the consultation process keeps identifying, is mentoring schemes. There is now a lot of tried and tested experience with mentoring schemes, and that is something that we want to pick up on. It is beneficiary-specific—it is specific to the individual and considers what continuing training or employment support will work for that individual. It is important to have flexibility within the plan, but we will fund the activities that the project promoters assure us will be appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 603665,
      "EditedText": "Provided that there is a satisfactory partnership involved in the delivery, it does not matter too much who is the lead applicant. I know that Clackmannan College for Further Education has done especially well, under the existing objective 3, in pulling together the efforts of the voluntary sector, the local authorities and the local enterprise company. In general, Clackmannanshire Council and Forth Valley Enterprise are especially well organised in terms of accessing ESF. Mr McConnell recently visited the private sector new deal contractor in the Forth valley, which recently received about £400,000 of ESF grant following an additional call for applications under the existing programme. I think that you can be reasonably satisfied with the local infrastructure in Clackmannanshire and the Forth valley."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18283,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 603667,
      "EditedText": "On the rehabilitation and treatment of substance abusers, we are restricted by the scope of ESF regulations, which are concerned with training and skills development. Rather than directly funding rehabilitation or treatment, ESF assists the recovery of ex-substance abusers, helping them back into the labour market by providing them with training, mentoring and aftercare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 603672,
      "EditedText": "Have you put some thought into the mechanisms for aftercare?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 603675,
      "EditedText": "My first point relates to flexible labour markets, which could contribute to better job opportunities. It was announced this morning that there is a major crisis at Cadence Design Systems, which is the software centre of excellence in Livingston, and that 1,000 jobs might not be created because people cannot be found in Scotland to fill them. A mainstream programme such as this, which has the appropriate funding, should be able to deal with such a problem. The example of Continental Tyres and various other employers showed the need for a rapid response—this is just the latest example. There was a real problem in getting retraining and so on for Continental workers. How will the strategy fit in with crises such as those at Continental Tyres or Cadence Design Systems?Secondly, you did not mention the Department for Education and Employment among the organisations that have been involved in planning this programme. As you know, the DFEE is still the main employment agency in Scotland. It shares responsibility in Scotland with Scottish Enterprise for programmes such as the new deal. Obviously, this programme has to tie in with the Employment Service. One of the main criticisms of recent training programmes is that we have done an awful lot of training, but there have not been many jobs at the end of the training. What will this programme do to establish a better link between training and employment and to ensure that training for unemployed people does not just take people off the dole, but offers the prospect of a job? Where is the additionality in the programme to do that?The third point is on the relationship with other organisations and schemes such as the new deal, skillseekers, adult training programmes and other previous European-funded programmes on training and employment. There has been a substantial cut in Scottish Enterprise's adult training budget. I know that you do not yet have the financial plans, but it would be useful to consider this matter in the context of the overall training spend in Scotland in recent years and to establish whether overall training spend is going up or down.My fourth point is on the background analysis—I know that you will not have the answers to this now, as you do not know what the financial inputs will be. Your SWOT—strengths-weaknesses-opportunities-threats—analysis was very good, but you did not tell us what you hope that the programme will achieve in addressing weaknesses and so on. What impact do you expect it to have over, say, three years? Finally, will you guarantee that the amount that will be spent on delivery and the multitude of agencies that will be involved in delivery will be kept to a minimum, so that the benefit of the programme will go to those who are unemployed and need training and not to those who tend to cream off a chunk of the expenditure in fairly high salaries?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 603677,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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      "ID": 18283,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 603678,
      "EditedText": "Those were a few minor points. Do David and Heather want to have a shot at answering them? I will then take questions from other members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 603683,
      "EditedText": "We must consult with all disadvantaged groups. Instead of including in the plan the mechanisms and approaches that we as a plan team feel would be appropriate, we must take on board the views of those groups. Yesterday we met some groups dealing with visually impaired people who had sent us queries about the plan. Much of our material is already available in audio form.This document is an initial draft, in which we have sketched out the first stages of the strategy. We need to investigate what support mechanisms we can put in place. We have started the process, which will be on-going. This affects not only the disabled, but groups right across the board, and we as a plan team need to consider how we can take it forward. However, Robert Brown is right about what the statistics indicate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 603684,
      "EditedText": "We will need to keep an eye on this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 603690,
      "EditedText": "Transport and accessibility. On that, the problem is that the regulation requires us to be involved in training, education and skills development. While we can insist that adequate transport arrangements are put in place while individuals are being trained, we cannot assist with the transport of workers to their place of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 603692,
      "EditedText": "I acknowledge the importance of that, but the European social fund cannot help with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 603697,
      "EditedText": "The plan team has recognised that there is a particular problem with older male workers. The extent to which the team can influence UK policy in relation to the new deal is fairly limited. I mentioned earlier that we had an additional call for new applications under the existing objective 3, which was specifically tied into the adult new deal for over-25s. That was to demonstrate that ESF could work in close co-operation with the adult new deal to make it work, and that has been modestly successful. I hope that the Department for Education and Employment and my colleagues in the Scottish Executive enterprise and lifelong learning department will pursue that in the long term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 603698,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that there should be a concordat between them? Laughter.The whole programme to tackle poverty and deprivation was geographically concentrated. Glasgow, Dundee and west Dunbartonshire, for example have social inclusion partnership areas, but they are very narrowly defined. There is a large amount of people who need help who are left outside the set areas for the SIPs. What plans do you have to help those people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 603702,
      "EditedText": "That is a huge issue that we will be coming back to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C603703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 603703,
      "EditedText": "I suppose that, in your work, you must be sensitive in the way that you focus on particular geographical areas, and in the way that you deal with the fact that exclusion affects different groups in different ways. A woman in a deprived area, in a workless household or in a one-parent family is more likely to suffer from exclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 603704,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603708",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 603708,
      "EditedText": "Do not use us as your model."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 603709,
      "EditedText": "It is a big task, but we are going to try to encourage that change. We will help to finance gender audits and so on, to see how far we can get. But I concede that it will be a difficult task.Ensuring better access for especially excluded groups has exercised us in recent years. We have always been concerned that there are individuals and groups that have not been able to access ESF moneys in the way that people who are better organised are able to. That is why, in 1998, we introduced the capacity building measure. Its purpose was to enable us to reach individuals and groups that we had not been reaching before, and to improve the capacity of those individuals and groups to access the ESF. We intend to carry on with that in the new programme. Preliminary evaluation of that capacity building activity has shown that it has been reasonably successful in helping people who did not access ESF before to get at it now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 603710,
      "EditedText": "One of the images that is presented of Europe, rightly or wrongly, is that it is bureaucratic and slow to react. Once the plan is committed, will it have the flexibility to change? We live in a rapidly changing industrial environment that has its own dynamic. Certain basic skills will always be relevant; the emphasis on other skills can change quite rapidly. I am concerned that a programme that is not put into action for months or years may lose some relevance. Is there the facility to change it, or do we require to go through the process again until Brussels agrees that we can change a programme that is costing £3 million or £4 million?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 603714,
      "EditedText": "One of the conclusions of the draft document is that opportunity counts. Johann made the point about whether people will know how to properly fill in the forms. How will you ensure that organisations and individuals get the opportunity to take part in this? How will you reach out to people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 603717,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but I seem to spend my life rushing things forward. On behalf of the committee, thank you very much—that was extremely informative and you responded well to the hard questions that were put to you. We have been asked if we want to send two members to the European Committee. In light of the discussion that we have had, I do not think that it is necessary to summarise a committee view; any member will be capable of taking forward the points that we have raised and we can refer to the Official Report if we need to be reminded.Do we want to take up the European Committee's offer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 603718,
      "EditedText": "We should. The social inclusion agenda is a key part of the proposal. European funding is an important source for training and employment measures, even if it is not the biggest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 603721,
      "EditedText": "I will go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 603725,
      "EditedText": "Neither do I."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 603727,
      "EditedText": "Some of my points will be fairly obvious. The SCVO representatives outlined five priorities. The first was charity law reform. It is clear that the current investigation that is being undertaken by the University of Abertay Dundee charity law reform unit will be the main part of the Executive's plans for reform. I suggest that we ask Martin Verity, the committee clerk, to find out when that report will be available and that any discussions that we have on charity law reform should flow from the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 603731,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Karen. The matter will be debated in the Parliament tomorrow afternoon as a result of Andrew Wilson's motion. If the minister responds positively, the issue might take care of itself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 603738,
      "EditedText": "Do you see this as a longer-term project?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 603752,
      "EditedText": "I know—we have ad hoc groups, sub-groups and all sorts of groups.I will summarise what we have agreed to do at the end of the meeting. Karen, you will consider the short term and the long term and keep us right about what needs to be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 603753,
      "EditedText": "I have been asked by members to raise again the issue of ministers making statements publicly without bringing them to the attention of the committee. Again, we request—insist, as I was told to say last time—that ministers, as a matter of courtesy and of routine, send us copies of all statements that are relevant to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 603757,
      "EditedText": "When we met the minister, she agreed that she would not do this. In fact, both Wendy and Frank agreed in the chamber that they would not make announcements without informing us first. So, where are we at?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 603763,
      "EditedText": "A rapid response before the minister even speaks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 603767,
      "EditedText": "Ministers will not bring us into discussions or decision making, so we will remain independent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 603768,
      "EditedText": "An example of what we want to happen occurred before the emergency debate on the Beattie Media affair: Donald's statement was made available to Alex Salmond a couple of hours before Donald made the statement to the Parliament. It is a fair request."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 18285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 603771,
      "EditedText": "Can I run through this quickly, because we are running over time. I am sure that members will keep me right if I get anything wrong. I want to go through the draft timetable. We are meeting on the morning of 25 October to consider issues of housing finance. On 27 October, following our informal briefing on the drugs inquiry and some feedback from the ad hoc anti-poverty group, we will finalise the programme. On 27 October, we will have a much more detailed programme, because we will be able to feed more into it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.5007362+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 18283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 603691,
      "EditedText": "Which is key."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3352
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Voluntary Sector",
      "HeadingID": 18284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 18284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 603739,
      "EditedText": "It seems to be my role to bring us back to what we have already agreed. There are many issues that we want to consider, and once we have agreed a programme on the key areas and priorities—as we have—we should stick to it. There is a danger that setting up a number of working groups outwith our key priority areas will dilute the work that is taking place elsewhere.I think that we can deal with some of the voluntary sector issues by having the convener write to ministers and by keeping a watching brief. However, to do those issues justice, we should probably set up a sub-group as part of our programme for next year, once we have heard more about the charity law situation. In the meantime the convener could write to the Executive about, for example, the new opportunities fund, to ascertain the Scottish perspective on that. I know that people have many interests and a great deal of experience to bring to the debate, but that will not take the committee forward in the way that we would like, if it detracts from our priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:47.390724+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 418373,
      "EditedText": "I concur that we should not make distinctions between Executive bills and members' bills, and that we should deal with them on their merits. My problem is with the timetabling. We have lots of eggs in baskets now, and I suggest that we should discuss the timetabling. I do not think that the matter should be deferred or that we should sit on the fence. In arranging the agenda at the end, we may need to schedule additional meetings to keep the pace up on the other two issues that were raised—domestic violence and prisons"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 6 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 418315,
      "EditedText": "Fergus Ewing MSP wishes to attend the part of our discussion about the petition from the Carbeth hutters because he had a previous and long-running involvement with their legal argument, along with MPs from a number of parties. I have an apology from Gordon Jackson as he is unable to be with us this morning.There are six items on the agenda this morning. Five are matters that have been referred to the committee from elsewhere in the Parliament, although the item on Scottish prisons will be a discussion of the visits that members of the committee made last week to Low Moss and Longriggend. Item 6, \"Future Business (in private)\", will be a discussion of how the committee copes with possible future business. We have a great deal of business to deal with that is being referred from elsewhere in the Parliament, including the Executive bills we have been alerted to. The agenda item on future business will include a brief discussion on the following issues, because we need to make decisions on the committee's timetable. We will discuss the future of our debate on prisons, which is to say that having reached a certain stage in our work we will look at where we go from here. We will look at the complaints procedure of the Law Society of Scotland, which we have been asked to do. We have had a letter from Nora Radcliffe MSP asking us to look at the law on vandalism. We have had a letter from Gordon Jackson, who, as I said, unfortunately is unable to be here, asking us to consider looking at civil justice delays. That is in response to a letter that all MSPs will have had from Jacqueline Wardrop, who is concerned about that particularly in the Court of Session. We have had a letter from the Zero Tolerance Trust asking us to widen the scope of our discussions on domestic violence and we will also have to consider how we proceed with the domestic violence matters we have been looking at already. All of those issues are possible items of future business that we must make a decision about how to proceed with. That decision will have to be made in the context of other business that we know is coming. I had a meeting with the Parliamentary Bureau yesterday. I was asked, along with the convener of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, to discuss possible timetabling for the member's bill on the abolition of warrant sales. We have been designated lead committee on that. I believe that the motion to do so will be before Parliament this afternoon. The Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill is being introduced today. It is clear that we will be designated the lead committee on it. We are already aware that we will consider the adults with incapacity bill. I understand that the introduction of that bill is imminent. My discussion with the bureau was about how we handle the timetabling. The committee is required to produce stage 1 reports on each of those three pieces of legislation. The stage 1 reports will be on the principles of the bills and will be laid before Parliament as a whole, before the stage 1 debate takes place. We are required to look at each of those bills, to take evidence where we consider it appropriate, and produce the reports. After discussion with the clerk, I have indicated to the bureau that, in my view, we can do that by Christmas. The bureau has asked, and I have agreed, that on at least one of the two Executive bills we will give it sufficient time so that there can be a stage 1 debate before Christmas, so one of the bills will have to be turned around a little faster. I regard that timetable as reasonable, given that with the two Executive bills there has been fairly extensive consultation and this committee has had extensive informal briefings. However, we will wish to get some of the evidence that we heard informally on to the record in each of those cases. All our discussions about future business, how we plan those meetings and how we fit in the two items of business that we have initiated as a committee—the prisons and domestic violence debates—will have to be in the timetable. Potential future business will need to be looked at in the context of that work load. All of that will be part of the discussion that we have in private. I am well aware that there is a certain interest in anything that any committee does that is seen to be in private. I remind committee members that the procedure that we are following today is one that we have followed at previous meetings. It is also a procedure that has been endorsed by the Presiding Officer as appropriate for committees. At the conveners liaison group, both last week and yesterday afternoon, it was made clear that this is an appropriate way to proceed when dealing with what are, in effect, housekeeping matters. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee had already begun to do its business in that way. That has now been endorsed and, indeed, recommended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 418316,
      "EditedText": "We now move to item 1 on the agenda, petition PE14 from the Carbeth Hutters Association on land reform legislation. I hope that members have read the petition and the helpful note that has been issued by the clerk outlining some of the options. It is fair to say that there is likely to be general sympathy around this table for the Carbeth hutters as to the position in which they now find themselves. I know that all of us will want to do whatever we can to assist their case.As I have outlined, the time that is available to this committee imposes some constraints. Very briefly, I would like members to consider the options that are open to us. Effectively, there are two. First, we could initiate a committee bill on this matter. Secondly, we could hear the views of a representative of the hutters association, the landlord—if he is prepared to give evidence—and the Scottish Executive. We could then refer the matter to the Executive and ask ministers to consider including it either in the land reform bill which is to come before Parliament or, if possible, in the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill. I am not entirely sure which would be appropriate.Before we move to a substantive discussion, Fergus may want to say one or two words, as he has some background in this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 418319,
      "EditedText": "I want to register a point. I have nothing against Fergus, but I find it rather strange that the committee is taking information—even though it is valuable and I recognise the knowledge and experience that lies behind it—from Fergus, who is coming at this matter, to some extent, from a professional position. He is professionally involved. There is something wrong with that. I recognise that he is an MSP, but is not there a conflict of interest—perhaps it is only in my mind—when MSPs have other forms of work? It seems wrong that Fergus is presenting this case. If his sister had been here to do it—if we could have interviewed her—I would have no difficulty with this situation at all, but under these circumstances, the issue appears to cut across the principles of the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 418322,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps Fergus can outline what his relationship now is with Ewing & Co."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 418329,
      "EditedText": "Roseanna—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 418331,
      "EditedText": "I want to declare my own interest in the matter. I first became aware of the Carbeth hutters when I worked for Shelter. I have a continuing interest in housing and issues of security of tenure. Like Fergus, I became involved with the Carbeth hutters some time ago, through a professional association. It is a continuing association and I have continuing sympathy for their plight. It seems to me that the case of the Carbeth hutters is one of those causes célèbres that has been around Scottish politics for a long time. They have had expressions of support from all political parties. The hutters have an expectation that the Scottish Parliament will do something to help them through their difficulties and to help other groups in a similar position.It is up to the Executive to deal with the matter. It must find some mechanism—whether through the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill, or in another land reform bill—to do so. I do not think that it is unreasonable of the Carbeth hutters to look to the Parliament for some protection. We should hold a short inquiry and ask them to come along and give evidence. We can then make a recommendation to the Executive as a matter of urgency. Those people need the kind of protection that we have always said the Scottish Parliament would provide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 418335,
      "EditedText": "I have just one brief comment. I think that Phil is quite entitled to state his point of principle, and it is a valid one. In the light of recent news, we are all a bit wary about such things. However, I propose that on this occasion, because the declaration has been made up front and because Fergus has had a long-standing involvement with the case, we should take it in the spirit in which it was intended—that he is interested in the issue as a politician. Nevertheless, Phil's point is valid and the minutes should reflect that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 418336,
      "EditedText": "I accept that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 418337,
      "EditedText": "I want to get back to the issue at hand—how we can assist the hutters. Having read the papers, I think that the remedy is not too difficult. It might be a question of extending rent control. Is there an existing statute that could be amended to extend the control of ground rent? A simple amendment to an existing statute might be an effective method of proceeding and would at least give us another option to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 418342,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add—since Fergus looked at me just then—that, as far as I am concerned, he is welcome to stay and join in any part of our discussion. The particular issue that I raised was a point of principle and my comments were not directed at Fergus personally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 418353,
      "EditedText": "I associate myself with others' comments. Am I the only person here who has sat on the bench?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 418348,
      "EditedText": "Does anybody else want to declare an interest related to criminal legal aid?The Subordinate Legislation Committee wrote a carefully drafted note to the Executive and there has been an Executive response. I am bound to say that I do not think that the response is entirely satisfactory because it brushes the issue off by saying that the regulations do not affect many people. I am concerned about that: if they do not affect very many people, why can they not be fixed? That would deal with what seems a small but unintended negative consequence for solicitors, who may conduct a trial that lasts for considerably longer than half an hour but in which the first witness is not sworn. I know that this is not a huge point, but for small legal firms it could have an unfortunate and considerable financial consequence.There are one or two issues about how we proceed with this matter. Under standing orders, we can lodge a motion seeking to have the instrument annulled. If we take no action, on a certain date—in this case, 4 November—the instrument will pass into law. We would need to attempt actively to have it annulled. If we choose to go down that road, we must have a debate at a meeting of the committee about this specific matter, which\"shall last no more than 90 minutes\"—although it could last less than 90 minutes. Depending on the outcome of that debate, at the end of which we would take a vote, we may report to the Parliament, setting out our recommendations and taking into account any recommendations made by any other committee—in this case, it would include the Subordinate Legislation Committee. All that must be done no later than 40 days after the instrument is laid, which ties us to the next meeting of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee on 26 October. Depending on the outcome of that meeting, the Parliamentary Bureau would need to consider the committee's response. I am not entirely clear about the procedure. Standing orders state: \"If the lead committee makes a recommendation as mentioned in paragraph 1\"—that is, that we recommend that it be annulled—\"the Parliamentary Bureau shall, no later than 40 days after the instrument is laid, by motion propose that nothing further is to be done under the instrument. Only the member moving the motion and the member of the Scottish Executive or junior Scottish Minister in charge of the instrument may speak in any debate on such a motion. Each such person may speak for no more than 3 minutes.\"So the motion to annul could conceivably come before the full Parliament for an extremely brief exchange in the chamber. However, it appears to me that, if we decide that this instrument should be annulled, the bureau must accept that. That is a big step for this committee to take. There are two ways in which to consider this issue. One is that it is a minor matter that, in the long run, may not be hugely important. We could simply note the comments of the Subordinate Legislation Committee, note the Scottish Executive's response and choose to do nothing about it. The other side of the argument is that, as the lead committee, we should not knowingly allow an instrument to go through that we perceive to be defective and flawed, regardless of the Executive's response. While that has consequences for the committee's business, I, as convener, would be extremely uncomfortable, having had the matter drawn to our attention, simply to turn a blind eye to it. I would appreciate members' views on this matter. Gordon Jackson has specifically requested that I associate him with my concerns about this motion. Should the committee choose to take more drastic action, he will support that decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 418351,
      "EditedText": "I associate myself with other members' comments. Having had this matter drawn to our attention, there is no alternative but to proceed as you suggest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 418355,
      "EditedText": "At the lower end of the court system, in the district court, there is a considerable amount of legal aid work. I have seen the volume of work. I know how busy it can be. There can be hours between arrival and being called."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 418356,
      "EditedText": "Waiting time is not the issue here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 418358,
      "EditedText": "That is different from waiting for a trial to start."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 418359,
      "EditedText": "On top of that is time spent waiting after the trial starts, so the waiting can be considerable. Having had this pointed out to us, I do not think that we ought to perpetuate it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 418360,
      "EditedText": "As an observer, I have sat through five days and two adjournments before the first witness was called. Although not a practitioner, I have seen what would have been the consequence of this flaw. This must go back as it is bad legislation and it would be remiss of us not to take the steps that have been proposed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 418364,
      "EditedText": "The research note was not sent out with the bill. It is entirely up to members' initiative to get a copy.We need to consider how to handle stage 1 of the bill. As I said, there was a discussion about this at the bureau meeting yesterday afternoon. The motion that will be before Parliament designating us the lead committee will not contain any timetable; this committee is not being told by when it is required to produce the stage 1 report. However, I said at the bureau that we could prepare the report by Christmas. A stage 1 debate could then be scheduled for January.Because this is a member's bill, there has not been extensive pre-legislative consultation—although there has been some—so I think we will want to hear evidence. Members may recall that the Minister for Justice commented on warrant sales in his evidence to us at our first meeting, on 31 August. We should hear from the Executive—not necessarily from the Minister for Justice, but from somebody who is authorised to speak for the Executive on this. I also think that we should consider inviting other interested people. A number of people have intimated interest, including Customs and Excise, which will give evidence on why warrant sales ought not to be abolished. Other groups, such as poverty action groups, will want to present some form of briefing, whether in person or in writing.It would not be appropriate for us to proceed on the bill without taking evidence. We should also invite Tommy Sheridan MSP to speak to us, as it is his bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 418365,
      "EditedText": "There are a couple of organisations that I would like to suggest: the Federation of Small Businesses, retailers organisations, and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 418367,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we should take evidence. This is unlike other bills, on which there are extensive briefings and consultation.I am concerned that you said that we could do it by Christmas—I wonder why you think that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 418369,
      "EditedText": "Are we meeting on Christmas day as well?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C418371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 418371,
      "EditedText": "It strikes me that although this is the lead committee for the bill, the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee might take a great deal of interest in it as well. If we have briefings, would it be possible to invite members of that committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 418378,
      "EditedText": "Christine and I went to Low Moss. It was the most useful thing I have done in the committee since joining it. It was the convener's suggestion that we should look into prisons, and I now hold firmly to the view that we should continue to do so. I am not clear where we go from here, but I am clear that we should find space for that work.We visited Low Moss because it is one of the prisons that are listed as having a high incidence of violence—Safeguarding Communities Reducing Offending had recommended that it should be closed, although I understand that Susan Matheson has now withdrawn that remark.It was good to get an understanding of why a low-security prison has such a high level of violence—if you go there, it is obvious. Christine and I both found it quite shocking: the dormitories house 27 males who are mostly young, who very often sleep in bunk beds, have tiny lockers, have no personal stuff about the place, and feel no sense of identity. You could see why those conditions could lead to episodes of violence. We went into the dorms and chatted with some of the prisoners, and of course we got a list of complaints. We forgot ourselves for a minute and said that we would see what we could do. Laughter. I reverted to my trade union type.The most interesting—I think for both of us—was being invited to Alba House, where prisoners can volunteer to come off drugs. The two of us, along with Fiona Groves and Andrew Mylne, sat with eight or nine prisoners and just chatted to them. That was the most enlightening experience for me; the men were very open about the difficulty they had faced in volunteering to go on the programme. They said that at Alba House they were able to share their feelings and emotions, and to talk to one another in a way they would never be able to in the normal prison environment. They explained that coming off drugs or alcohol on the 12-step programme was about training their minds about themselves, being positive about society and so on. It is sad that they stay there until they complete their sentences, then they leave. We might want to address the provision of support after they leave prison, which is inadequate. Not all of them were fixed up with somewhere to go; in essence, that would be a social work provision.Those are the sorts of things I took away from the visit. A job needs to be done there. We discovered that the drug-taking environment is probably the most difficult problem in prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11195,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 418398,
      "EditedText": "Yet Longriggend was considered to be far better than their previous accommodation at Greenock, which gives even greater cause for concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418399",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 418399,
      "EditedText": "It does."
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    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418380",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 418380,
      "EditedText": "I would like to tell you a funny story."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418390",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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      "ID": 143
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 418390,
      "EditedText": "I thought that prison authorities had begun to address that issue by linking up with local voluntary groups and that that was to be encouraged. It struck me afterwards, however, that that was all very well while people were still in Longriggend, but given that they would be leaving and spreading out across central Scotland, linking with a local group was of no value. Unless they were going to settle in Cumbernauld or Airdrie, that would be useless to them. The sheer complexity of trying to organise such a programme from within a closed institution makes it difficult, and it cannot be tackled in a prison environment because it is the societal environment that must be changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 418386,
      "EditedText": "Through my previous employment, I have been to Longriggend on a number of occasions, and what struck me on revisiting it—and I think that all of us who visited would agree—was the poor state of the physical environment. It is, perhaps, no surprise that its closure has been announced, as it is in a quite dreadful condition.Apart from seeing round the place and chatting to some of the young people who are on remand, Roseanna and I sat in on the case conference of someone who was being considered as a suicide risk.The room in which we had to meet was grossly inadequate for the purpose. It was very small and there were a lot of people in it. There were bread vans delivering bread at the back of the office, which made so much noise that we could not hear what was going on. On the other side of the door was a busy corridor. We could hear what was being said there, so anyone there must have been able to hear what was being said in the meeting.It was impossible to have a relatively confidential meeting. The staff appreciate that fully and they are trying their hardest to deal with it, but the environment at Longriggend makes that difficult.The same issues came up that Pauline and Christine mentioned. Time and again, it came across that drug-related offences are the reason why many of those young people are on remand. The young man whose conference we attended was reputed to have had a £100-a-day heroin habit when he was on the outside. His addiction had not continued, but its implications had followed him into Longriggend. His family was breaking up, and his mother refused to visit him because he had stolen from her—that was contributing to the situation in which he found himself. That was, I think, his fourth time in Longriggend. He did not want to be there, but breaking his habit on the outside was impossible.I felt incredibly sorry for several people, and for one in particular. If I put my social work hat on, I would argue that he should never have been in a young offenders institution. The young man in question clearly had learning difficulties and found himself in an environment that was grossly unsuitable for dealing with him. You may agree, Roseanna: just in chatting to the young inmates, I would say that a number of them were just poor souls. They were not hardened criminals; they were not people who would necessarily have been thought to pose a huge risk, although some of them were in for serious offences, including murder—or awaiting trial for attempted murder. I could rabbit on at great length."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418387",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 418387,
      "EditedText": "I want to endorse what Scott said. I have visited prisons previously—and visited them in my previous professional existence. When one visits a prison and speaks to many of the inmates, it comes across that prison is not the place for them: wherever they ought to be cared for and whatever the custodial necessity for their situation, a prison is not helping matters. In the case of the individual whom Scott Barrie mentioned, it was clearly inappropriate. In that situation, when the young man was remanded, there was presumably nowhere else to send such a person. He had special needs, and was not somebody who could be assisted—if anybody can be—at Longriggend in present conditions. The physical fabric of the building is appalling. The entire set-up is harsh in the sense that it is concrete and plastic and unpleasant. The cells are tiny and wholly unpleasant—not conducive to encouraging anybody to care for their own surroundings. Plaster is peeling off walls; mould is growing over windows. Those are appalling conditions for anybody to have to live in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 418394,
      "EditedText": "The prison officers were doing their best to raise morale among the prisoners. They pointed out one or two schemes to us. There is artwork by the prisoners around the football pitch. Adult prisoners had their recreation room decorated with portraits of Elvis Presley and others—he was the only one I recognised, because I am so old. They had done a good job, and I felt that the prison officers were very positive. One of them pointed out that he had been instrumental in getting duvets for the beds, rather than the old Army-type blankets that they had had. He was trying to make it more homely for the boys.What appalled me was how young the boys were; they looked like the kids I was teaching six months ago. Euan and I noticed that especially when we went to the school, which was called a learning centre rather than a school, because some of the lads had had terrible experiences at school and it was the last thing with which they wanted to be associated. Attendance at the learning centre is voluntary, and between 20 and 30 boys had volunteered to attend lessons. The two teachers were terrific, and the attitude in the classroom was very positive. Because the average length of stay is about 30 days, the boys do modules that fit into that short period. The courses are linked to the local college, and modules in computing, maths, English and one or two other subjects are available. The idea is that the boys can carry on those courses on their release, but in reality they tend to slip back into their old ways, as is the case with drug problems. Often, the only way that the boys will carry on is when they come back on remand at some future date. I spoke to a boy who was doing a computing module and was positive about using it when he got out because of family business connections, but he was probably the lucky one who had something to look forward to.We also saw where the deportees were; it was the saddest place that I have ever visited. Some of the people had been there for months, and many of them spoke little or no English, although they were polite and pleasant. They seemed to have nothing much to do except play pool or watch television, and they did not know when they were going to be dealt with. Most of them were from the Indian sub-continent and a great deal of effort had gone into providing them with the food that they wanted and ensuring that their religious observances could easily be kept if they wanted to be religious. We were shown the shelves in their rooms on which they could keep the Koran, which has to be kept high up. I had not known about that requirement, but the prison officers had taken the time and trouble to find out how to treat people who had particular religious beliefs. I had never been to a prison before and I was appalled at the physical conditions. I understand what Roseanna said about the windows; I wanted to get a scrubbing brush and some bleach and get started on doing something about it. However, I was very impressed by the staff. I thought that they were trying their best. If we cannot do something better for young offenders, God help us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418395",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 418395,
      "EditedText": "I think that we would all echo that sentiment. We have serious concerns about people who are in that position, and if we are going to turn them round, it must be done while they are still young. That is the point at which, if something can be achieved, it will have a long-lasting effect.Scott and I sat in on a case conference with a young person who said that he had begun to feel a little better about himself, but that feeling manifested itself in him lying at night daydreaming about the house that he was going to have. He was beginning mentally to decorate the house for himself. That was regarded as a positive sign and initially, Scott and I saw it as such. However, we said to each other afterwards that, when he is released, he will not get a house. He is building his hopes up and, in turning his depression round, he is basing his faith on something that is highly unlikely to happen. When the reality of his life outside sets in, there is a danger that he might go straight back on to the drugs. It is an extremely complex issue, and I do not think for one minute that we can do anything other than add our voices to the concern about how young offenders are dealt with in Scotland today. The way in which they are looked after does not give us much to be proud of."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418397",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 418397,
      "EditedText": "I understood from the prison staff that the young men are all categorised as category B prisoners when they enter the prison. One of the staff suggestions was that there should be a category B and a category C. The point was illustrated when someone who had been using drugs was in the same dining hall as a drug seller. The drug user was a non-violent poor soul, to use Scott's phrase, whereas the other individual said to prison officers that he could not wait to get out as he earned £400 a week from his activities. I agree with the prison officers that it is not sensible that those prisoners should be in the same environment, as there was a marked difference between the two types of prisoner. That illustrates the problem of categorising all prisoners as B, although using both B and C as categories would raise accommodation issues. I agree with Maureen that the saddest thing of the whole visit was to see the deportees—people who have committed no offence and who are locked up in entirely unsuitable accommodation. The prison officers were doing the best for them and making immense efforts, but Longriggend is entirely the wrong environment for those people, and it is a disgrace that they are held there and treated in that manner."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 418404,
      "EditedText": "I was in the same place."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C418341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 418341,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee for listening to me. I have been made to feel slightly welcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3924975+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C418343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 418343,
      "EditedText": "We are all friends now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.4081215+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 418327,
      "EditedText": "I take objection to what Phil has just said, not because Fergus is in the same political party as me, but because he made an open declaration at the start. His recommendation, which we have before us, that we should take evidence, not only from the Carbeth hutters, but from the Scottish Landowners Federation and the Executive, is very worthwhile. We want to be seen to be objective and to have a full explanation before us, which is what Fergus said. I hope that we will have a short inquiry into the merits of the case with those parties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 418350,
      "EditedText": "I support that view. We are already amending a flawed regulation from 1999; it would be a bad step to make an amendment that is also flawed. It is a great error to have a distinction between when a trial starts in common law and when a trial starts for purposes of criminal legal aid. I am not a criminal practitioner and have no interest in the criminal legal aid system, but I know from observing it that a person can come and tender a plea before the court and the diet for the trial does not start until hours and hours afterwards. That is through no fault of the practitioner, witnesses or anybody else; it happens because the criminal justice system is so overcrowded. This would be a great injustice to parties who are present and there would be injustices to small firms. Our only remedy is to go through the route that you have explained. Tough: we must do that because this is bad legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 418363,
      "EditedText": "I know where SPICe is. Do not be wicked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 418375,
      "EditedText": "I want to ensure that we keep up our momentum and freshness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 418381,
      "EditedText": "Oh please, no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 418384,
      "EditedText": "I should add that I introduced the teacher to the prison governor, whom the teacher had never met. She had worked there for three months and the governor was a wee bit embarrassed. She said that she had seen his photograph and I told him that I thought that he should meet this wonderful woman.I must say that I reassessed my views, having been to the house. I reassessed what I thought of the drugs problem and why such things happen. I also reassessed my opinion of the personnel who work in those places after meeting the teacher and some of the prison officers.I can assure the committee that we were not not shown stuff. We were referred to the scrappy by the teacher. That is the worst possible job—it involves teasing bits of metal out of cabling and so on. For some of the young men in there, it is a show of bravado to do that job—they say that they have fallen so low that they can get no lower. It is seen as a badge of honour to be working in the scrappy, as opposed to doing worthwhile work.There is a psychological turnaround that must be achieved for some of those men. To do that—as we know—we must examine what happened when they were much younger.The visit was very useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 418400,
      "EditedText": "Returning to the chief inspector of prisons' report, I believe that there is no doubt that we need a national strategy for the young offender. The present approach is piecemeal, although people are trying to do something. Bearing in mind the victims of the prisoners' crimes—victims of burglaries and so on—I believe that it is in the interests of victims and potential victims that remedial work be done with these young men, rather than simply taking them in for six months and releasing them again. That is a complete waste of time for everyone, as well as a waste of lives. There must be investment in the prison structure. As a postscript, I note that, because there are about 27 beds in a dorm, the governor tried to create a recreational area for the prisoners. It was okay—it was great compared with what was there before. However, only tiny moves were being made and they do not address the problems of why those young men are in prison, and why, when they are released, they will go back to prison again. I hope that we will address that in our report. In the long term, the community will save money by expending it in certain areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 418321,
      "EditedText": "Is Fergus still the boss of the company that is dealing with the matter? Is he still in control of the company or does he simply have an association with it, and therefore nothing whatever to do with the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 418324,
      "EditedText": "I accept that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 418326,
      "EditedText": "I know that Phil wants in again, but there are other people who want to contribute to this discussion. I remind members that Fergus Ewing is not here to give evidence, but to make a political statement on behalf of the Carbeth hutters, which he has made quite clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C418328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 418328,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that people should take exception to Phil raising that point. I do not think that he raised it to be objectionable. If he was going to raise it as a concern in relation to today's committee meeting, he should have raised it after Fergus Ewing made his declaration of interest and before he actually spoke.There would be a problem—that is up to the Parliament's legal people—only if Fergus was seeking to influence the committee and had a pecuniary interest in the outcome of the case, which his firm is handling. If that were so, I would be very concerned. That had not occurred to me—although it did to Phil—and perhaps we should have tried to ascertain that before Fergus made his statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 418334,
      "EditedText": "I have no difficulty at all with taking things forward in the way that has been described by others, but I have difficulty with Fergus's position. I recognise that he made an honourable declaration. My comments are not aimed at Fergus in particular; there is a point of principle. Fergus works for, or is involved with, a firm that will perhaps make some profit out of this case. On that basis, there is a conflict of interests between his role as an MSP and his role as an active solicitor. Not only Fergus, but other members of the Scottish Parliament, could have dual roles. If they are involved in other work, they should declare their interest and refrain from participating in the related issues. It is my understanding that that would not be the case on a council and I apologise to Fergus for having raised the matter. This is the first time that it has been apparent to me that there could be a conflict. All I wanted to point out, convener, is that this is a point of principle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 418340,
      "EditedText": "If you read the information carefully, Christine, you will notice that the Scottish Landowners Federation supports the Carbeth hutters, so I doubt the landlord would find much succour from that quarter.We should also hear evidence from somebody from the Scottish Executive, whose response to our letter could form part of the evidence. The note indicates that we should write to the Scottish Executive after we have heard the evidence. However, in view of Euan Robson's helpful intervention, I think that a letter to the Executive from the committee about this meeting might be useful in ascertaining exactly how we might deal with the matter in practice. The Scottish Executive is in the best position to advise us on pieces of legislation that have the potential to be amended.If everybody is agreed, that is the basis on which we will proceed and we will try and arrange for witnesses to come to the first meeting after the recess or as soon thereafter as possible. We will probably timetable half an hour for each set of witnesses so that the evidence taking will take about an hour and a half, which would be about half of our meeting.Fergus wants to excuse himself now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 418349,
      "EditedText": "I am not closely associated with the legal system, but you are right, Roseanna; the matter has been drawn to our attention and it would be remiss of us knowingly merely to note it and say that it will not affect many people. In light of the papers that were laid before us, I do not think that we have any option, albeit we have other competing business, but to debate it as has been suggested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 418374,
      "EditedText": "That is right. The timetabling of all that will go on the agenda, under future business. We have serious issues to deal with, and I am aware that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee might end up being the lead committee for every second member's bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 418376,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. It is possible for us to have joint meetings with the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee. We can decide whether that would be appropriate.We must keep in mind the fact that this committee is quorate with three members. I know that everyone will do their best to attend, but if we try to schedule extra meetings—whether of this committee alone or of a joint meeting with the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee—members who have serious problems finding the time need not be concerned that their absence will destroy, so to speak, the work of the committee. As long as we are quorate, we can proceed. As convener, I would be concerned only if the members who made up the quorum appeared to give an unbalanced view of the committee as a whole. I would not want to proceed on that basis. However, with that caveat, we can consider a number of options for handling our work load when we come to item 6 on the agenda, which is future business.Are members are happy enough with that? Do we agree that we will want to take evidence on this bill?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 418377,
      "EditedText": "We move on to item 5 on the agenda, Scottish prisons. Two groups of members went separately to HM prison Low Moss and HM remand institution Lonriggend last Tuesday. I want to discuss what transpired during those visits, aiming to finish at around 11.30. Those of us who were not at one or other institution, or who were at neither, will be interested to hear the views of those who were. We will talk about Low Moss first, and then Longriggend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 418383,
      "EditedText": "Christine and I were chatting to the guys in Alba House. I do not know the names of the guys involved, but one of them was coming off drugs for a second time. Christine was chatting to them about how many children they had and the impact that drugs had had on their families. This particular guy said that he had two nine-year-old girls and a two-year-old. Christine asked him whether the nine-year-olds were twins. He replied that he had had the girls by two different lassies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 418388,
      "EditedText": "The HMI report commented adversely on the condition of the cells, and on the windows in particular. You had to see it: reading about it in the report was not a preparation for how awful and unhygienic they were."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 418391,
      "EditedText": "The appalling physical conditions of that institution are borne not just by the prisoners; they are appalling conditions in which to expect someone to work. I cannot imagine that being a prison officer in Longriggend is a particularly pleasant existence—they are as much affected by the conditions as the prisoners. The prison officers we met appeared to be committed to what they were doing, although Scott and I were in a certain part of the prison—we were visiting those who were thought to be at risk. A measure of concern and support was expressed by the officers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 418401,
      "EditedText": "It is worth pointing out that the individual with whom Scott and I had most contact was on remand for the fourth time, as Scott said. We should remember that Longriggend is a remand prison, rather than one that deals with prisoners who have been sentenced. Although the individual had been in Longriggend on remand four times, he had never had a custodial sentence as a result of a trial. He was coming into Longriggend on remand, being tried and ending up with a disposal other than custody. I have no idea whether he has been found guilty before or whether he has been acquitted—there might have been fines or other disposals. When it comes to making a decision about who should be remanded in custody, I am not sure whether, in those circumstances, custody is particularly helpful or appropriate. He continues to be remanded and it is almost as if he is being punished before he is tried. I want to close this part of our discussion and remit the issue of our consideration of the report of Her Majesty's inspector of prisons to future business of the committee. I want to consider how we should proceed with that area of general concern, which was useful for us to examine—I think that we are all agreed on that. Before we move on to item 6, which will be held in private, there will be a detailed note on the visits by members to Longriggend and Low Moss. The clerks who accompanied each group are close to finalising the note. It was unfortunate that it was not available for today's meeting, but members will receive the note, which will be interesting. I commend the clerks for all the work that has been done for today's meeting. It did not strike me until I received the papers that our decision to have a discussion meeting—as opposed to one that takes evidence—ironically puts most burden on the clerks. The meetings at which we hear evidence are not anything like as burdensome as meetings such as today's. The notes that have been supplied for each of the agenda items have been extremely helpful. I thank the clerks for their work for today's meeting as, without their background advice, there is no doubt that we would still be sitting here at this time tomorrow, trying to sort through some of the issues. I close the formal part of the meeting of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11195,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 418403,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Do you want to associate yourself with Phil's comments, Lyndsay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418405",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
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      "ContributionID": 418405,
      "EditedText": "The meeting continued in private."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C418317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11191,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 418317,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for inviting me to speak. I should declare that my legal practice is handling litigation on this matter, although my sister is doing all the hard work. After a temporary interruption, normal service is being resumed.I am also a prospective trustee of the Carbeth trust, the aim of which is to purchase the Carbeth estate as a co-operative for the interests of the Carbeth hutters. The vice-convener of the Scottish Landowners Federation, Robert Balfour, and Len McGuire, the husband of Anne McGuire, are also trustees, so the trust has quite a broad-based composition. I thoroughly endorse Roseanna's remark that there is cross-party and non-party support for providing the Carbeth hutters with more security.I hope that this committee will be able to take the issue forward in the way that it considers appropriate. However, I recognise that there are issues of time and resources. It is for the committee to decide on those.The legal issue at stake here—providing security of tenure—entails coming up with a definition of a hut, to differentiate it from holiday homes, caravans and mobile homes. That is quite an easy task for draftsmen to accomplish. At issue also is whether there should be additional measures to provide control against excessive—or what might be seen as excessive—rises in service charge. That was the straw that broke the camel's back and led to the dispute, given that the charges were exacted for nothing more than the use of a water tap.Without taking up too much of the committee's valuable time, I feel that the best conclusion would be for the Executive to take the issue forward. No shortage of representations have been made to the Executive. Indeed, I first wrote to the First Minister in his former capacity in 1996. He replied, stating that it would be for the Scottish Parliament to take the issue forward. I hope that the First Minister will take up the suggestion that he made when he was Secretary of State for Scotland in 1996 and that the Carbeth hutters can be protected by the Executive taking action. It would be useful for the Carbeth hutters—and, indeed, the landlord—to have a hearing with a member of the Executive, which would set the Parliament in good esteem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3924975+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C418323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11191,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 418323,
      "EditedText": "I began my remarks by declaring an interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3924975+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C418325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 418325,
      "EditedText": "The interest that I have is the interest that I declared in the register of members' interests, which has not changed. I am a partner of Ewing & Co, in the same way that members of Phil's party, such as Annabel Goldie and David McLetchie, are partners in their firms. All of us have views and a history of taking a stance on issues, which we bring to the Parliament and which, I feel, informs the work that we do. Provided that we declare an interest, as I have done this morning, it is quite proper that we should continue to pursue such matters. I have no involvement with any of the litigation that is going on because, as I also declared, that is not being dealt with by me. I hope that the committee feels that I have made a proper declaration of my interests. I must admit that I am slightly surprised that the matter is being raised in this way, but it appears that that is politics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:17.3924975+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 6 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 418314,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:01"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 418318,
      "EditedText": "In fairness, we ought to amend your remark, as it is unlikely that the First Minister made his remarks in 1996 as secretary of state. You must mean shadow secretary of state, if it was in 1996."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 418320,
      "EditedText": "I hear what you are saying, Phil, but Fergus is a member of the Scottish Parliament. He was formerly an active participant, but he has declared an interest. Having heard it, we are all well aware that Fergus's views on this are not—if you like—unbiased or anything other than the views of somebody who decided some time ago to support the Carbeth hutters. Fergus is no longer actively involved in the legal case. He is here as a member of the Parliament, giving his views, which clearly have not changed despite the fact that, having been a lawyer, he was involved in the case. He is now no longer a practising solicitor and is not involved. He asked to come to the meeting and there was, in my view, no real reason to refuse to hear him. As long as he has declared the interest, which he has, everything is perfectly in order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 418330,
      "EditedText": "Just a moment, Phil, there are other members who wish to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 418332,
      "EditedText": "I, too, have been involved with the Carbeth hutters and I support their cause. I am currently arranging to go and visit the huts, so that I can get a better understanding of the situation. I suggest that we take evidence, as other members have said, from both the Carbeth hutters and the Scottish Landowners Federation. What I am not clear about is the kind of legislation that the hutters want, or how that could fit into the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill—it is not a simple matter of feudal law. At some stage—I am not sure how it will be possible, considering our heavy work load—we should take evidence from the different parties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 418333,
      "EditedText": "I mentioned the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill as part of a small exercise in kite flying, because that bill is being introduced to Parliament today. The Carbeth hutters were thinking more in terms of the land reform bill, which is unlikely to be introduced until January or February. I was thinking more in terms of time scales. I thought that if there was some way the Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill could be amended to address the problem, that would deal with the issue of time. If we choose to write to the minister or the Executive, we can inquire as to the best way of proceeding with the matter to maximum effect. Time is of the essence. We need to do things quickly, but we must also do them effectively.Phil wants to make a further point and then we will make a decision about how to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 418338,
      "EditedText": "If we take the option of writing to the Executive, one of the things that we can explicitly ask is that it should consider other pieces of legislation that might be amended sooner, rather than wait for the land reform bill. Thank you, Euan. Time is of the essence and it would be useful if what you suggest is possible. The onus ought to be on the Executive. I suggest that the committee proceed by taking up the second option set out in the note from the clerk—the one that has been proposed by Pauline McNeill. Given the time scale and difficulties with the business of the committee, I suggest that we go ahead at this stage and organise some of the evidence taking before we get a reply from the Executive. We should proceed on the basis that we will want to take evidence from a number of interested parties, notwithstanding what the Executive replies. Unless anyone has an objection, I will proceed on that basis.We should hear evidence from a representative of the hutters and from the landlord himself or one of his agents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Model Agreement on       Co-operation with Third States",
      "HeadingID": 11192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 11192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 418344,
      "EditedText": "Next on the agenda is a document that has come from the European Committee. It is European document 302, which is a draft model agreement on co-operation with third states and is in connection with the European Police Office. The clerks have helpfully supplied a note.I have had a look through the document on the committee's behalf. I thought that the committee would want to consider any issue concerned with control over the police, but it is clear that this is supposed to be a model agreement only, which might or might not be used by various states if they want to set up agreements between their police forces and Europol. It is in no way binding and is simply something that the committee should note. It is not a substantive issue.Is everybody happy that we note this and move on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Draft Model Agreement on       Co-operation with Third States",
      "HeadingID": 11192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 11192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 418345,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 418346,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is the Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48). If members have read their papers assiduously, they will realise that there is an issue in connection with this Scottish statutory instrument which has been highlighted by the Subordinate Legislation Committee. Members will have seen a submission from the Law Society of Scotland to that committee. The SSI raises a serious question for the committee. The main point of concern is the definition of when a trial starts. The definition that has been included in this SSI is that a trial starts from the swearing of the first witness. However, there is a possibility of trials taking place where witnesses are not sworn. That does not happen frequently, but it happens. Some trials can last for a day or two before witnesses are sworn. As the Subordinate Legislation Committee rightly pointed out to the Executive, there could be an argument that this SSI was not drawn competently. We need to consider that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 418347,
      "EditedText": "I have to declare an interest, not so much on what you have just been speaking about, but on the provisions about Wick sheriff court. My husband represents in the Law Society of Scotland a lot of solicitors who practise in that court."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 418354,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 418352,
      "EditedText": "I go along with Christine's comments. The last thing this committee and the Parliament should do is accept flawed legislation. You have identified a flaw that must be rectified, and the action that you propose is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 11193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 418357,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that, but the amount of time that can pass between when trials start and when the oath is taken is quite different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 11193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11193,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 418361,
      "EditedText": "Can I take it that the view of the committee is that we make the relevant motion? It must be in an individual MSP's name Interruption. It is being suggested to me that we should simply decide at this stage to have a debate on this and we will sort the motion out. Are we certain that that is the correct procedure? I do not want to get us in a procedural wrangle on a matter of this nature. I am looking at rule 10.4 of standing orders, for people who are interested in these matters, because that is the rule that covers motions for annulment, which is what we are considering. Part 1 states:\"In the case of any instrument which is subject to annulment\"—which is this case—\"in pursuance of a resolution of the Parliament, any member (whether or not a member of the lead committee ) may, not later than 40 days after the instrument is laid, by motion propose to the lead committee that the committee recommend that nothing further is to be done under the instrument.\"We can timetable the motion for debate at the next committee meeting. The motion will be read out at the start of the debate—that will kick the debate off. We will have to advise the Executive that we are pursuing this route as the Executive will need to have the opportunity to come to the meeting. Indeed, the Executive may wish to make representations. Is everybody happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 418362,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to item 4, which is the Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill. This is the first member's bill. The committee will consider options for dealing with the bill at stage 1. I draw the committee's attention to the very helpful research note on poindings and warrant sales that was published by the Scottish Parliament information centre on 13 September. We should thank Fiona Killen for her work on that. If anyone has not seen it, they should get hold of a copy. Christine, you look puzzled; if you go to SPICe you will find a copy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 418366,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add Money Advice Scotland, which has a lot of experience in this area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 418368,
      "EditedText": "Are you going white, Pauline? We will do our best. I appreciate that the work load of this committee is enormous. We have done extremely well so far, and I commend all members of the committee on the work that is being done. We did not come up with the Christmas date out of thin air."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 418370,
      "EditedText": "It came out of discussion with the clerk. There is no timetabling for this bill. If we find that it is becoming extremely difficult to complete our scrutiny by Christmas, we are not held to a timetable, although I would not want to treat a members' bill less seriously than an Executive bill. However, no timetabling motion will be lodged for this particular bill and if we have to push on a little bit into January, we can do so. I do not want to put the fear of God into you all, including the clerks, but I would also not rule out meeting a little more frequently. It is possible to do so. If it took, for example, only one extra meeting to complete the process, I would suggest that we should find time to schedule it. Obviously, I would not do that without consulting all members. However, I would like us to try to progress as quickly as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Abolition of Poindings and Warrant Sales Bill",
      "HeadingID": 11194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 11194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 418372,
      "EditedText": "There are several options. It would be possible to suggest that the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee might like to hear some of the evidence and report to us rather than—if we produce a long list of potential witnesses—try to deal with every witness ourselves. It might be possible for us to consult that committee and share the work load. That would be a way of cutting back on this committee's potential work load. If the committee were happy enough to handle the consultation in that way, I would discuss with the convener of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee how we might timetable that, and then report back to the committee. It would be possible, and may be considered appropriate, for example, for the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee to hear the evidence of Money Advice Scotland and one or two other such organisations that the committee believes should have an input, but which it would not necessarily occur to us, as the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, to invite, as we tend to default to the statutory or professional organisations. With this committee's agreement, I shall consult the convener of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee to inquire whether we can share the work load on this bill. I shall take into account the concerns that Pauline has raised. Nevertheless, I believe that the committee wants to show itself capable of dealing with the work load that has been presented to us.Did anybody else want to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 418382,
      "EditedText": "What story is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 418385,
      "EditedText": "Four of us went to Longriggend prison; when we arrived we split into two groups—Scott Barrie and I went off in one direction and Maureen Macmillan and Euan Robson went off in another. I will ask Scott to talk about what he and I participated in, and Maureen can tell us what she and Euan experienced and saw.We saw the whole prison between the four of us, so that method worked out quite well.Scott, will you describe the bit of Longriggend that we saw?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 418389,
      "EditedText": "The windows were black with mould, to the point where their existence was almost pointless. They might as well have been boarded over in some cases, because they let in so little light. The mould was not just in little bits round the window edge: it was right across them. Such physical circumstances are not conducive to anybody addressing the prison issues that they should be addressing. I maintain some of the concerns that took us to Longriggend in the first place. I echo the comments made about the governor at Low Moss. We were all extremely impressed with the governor at Longriggend, Rona Kite. She has not been there for long, but she was extremely good. She seemed to welcome any attention given to the situation at Longriggend. When we went in with the fixed notion that Longriggend was to close in April, she was surprised, because she had not been given a time scale for closure. From our discussion it was clear that whatever had been reported as the closure date was not so. Far from Longriggend closing in April, the time scale is likely to slip. Rona Kite was already talking about May or June. My guess is that it will slip even further. The concern is that while it remains open and while it is known that it will close, nothing will be done about the physical conditions. Something else was highlighted by the individual whose case conference we sat in on: the effect of the isolation of the institution. That individual had many family problems. His mother had not been visiting because of the breakdown in the family relationship, caused by the thefts that had been brought on by his drug habit. Another reason was the distance that she had to travel. He was hopeful of getting a visit from her the day that we were there. Those involved in the case conference were worried about the effect on the individual if his mum did not show up. He was relying on the fact that she was coming to visit him. Also, her visit was dependent on the fact that she had just been paid, so it was an optimum time for her to get out to a place such as Longriggend, which is extremely difficult to get to and requires a big commitment in time and money from people who do not have very much.The remoteness of Longriggend contributed to the difficulties experienced by families travelling there, and the fact that people did not have frequent visits in turn contributed to their state of mind, causing enormous problems for handling a situation with an individual who was clearly quite damaged. We were advised by the governor that 97 per cent of people admitted to Longriggend tested positive for one drug or another on arrival. That is not to say that 97 per cent are there because of drugs offences. That is not the case—often they are there for theft or whatever. It is also not true to say that 97 per cent are addicted to drugs. The young man made it quite clear that he found it easy enough to come off drugs when he was in the institution. The real problem occurred when he was released into the community. The people who sold him the drugs were on the doorstep, and he was back in circumstances in which it was extremely difficult for him to stay off drugs. There is not much in the way of support out in the community for somebody in his situation. It highlighted the need for residential rehabilitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 418392,
      "EditedText": "On the very point of accommodation and the staff, the staff also felt that not enough recognition was given to what they were trying to do with totally inadequate facilities. Some of them felt that they were almost being blamed for conditions at Longriggend, whereas in fact—as Maureen and I saw—they were making a major effort to overcome some of the terrible structural problems with the buildings and the maintenance problems. They were doing a great deal with limited opportunity and resources. I pay tribute to them for the effort that they put into overcoming some of the problems with the physical environment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 418393,
      "EditedText": "Recreation areas had been carved out of corridors. A television stuck in a corridor with a few seats can now be called a recreation area. The prison officers are not to blame for that. What is to blame is years of neglect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 418396,
      "EditedText": "The governor also highlighted the number of under-16s who are accommodated in that supposedly adult or young persons institution from time to time, although that was not the case when we visited. That gives me great cause for concern, and we should consider it when we discuss how to progress this area of work. This is not just about people aged over 16; it is about under-16s and the accommodation that is available for young people in trouble."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 418402,
      "EditedText": "Before the end of the meeting, I want to put on record my apologies for failing to attend the visit to Low Moss. The night before the visit, I found out that Sarah Boyack was coming to Ayrshire to look at the A77. I made that decision on the spot, but I recognise the inconvenience that it caused everyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5674409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 11191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 418339,
      "EditedText": "How about the Scottish Landowners Federation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418379",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2382
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Prisons",
      "HeadingID": 11195,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ID": 11195,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 418379,
      "EditedText": "I concur with everything Pauline said—except that when we asked the prisoners about their complaints and they started to address me, I said that Pauline was in the team with the money. They stopped speaking to me after that. Laughter.The dorms had the type of metal beds that I remember from youth hostels way back at the turn of the century when I was young. The 27 men there are locked up from 9 o'clock at night. The dorms are absolutely bare, with no personal belongings because things get stolen by the others. The prisoners are in and out of the place, some for days and some for a few months; there is no core of prisoners in there for five or six months with whom any real remedial work could be done. That makes for great difficulties.With its wee narrow corridors, the place is like an old army camp. When we started out it was a nice sunny day, which gave it a braver appearance than it might have on other days, although we ended up being drenched.Like Pauline, I found that Alba House was not a cosy option. It operates on a self-referral basis. There are no papers or television. The prisoners talked openly with one other about their drug problems. They were not using tough-guy images and, as Pauline said, they could never have spoken in such a way in any other prison. However, those prisoners were only eight guys out of the hundreds who are out there.There are problems for the prison governor because it is a low-security jail. The fence was put up before drugs were an issue. The result is that drugs can be thrown over. The governor said that he and his staff had spent three days just picking up packages that had been thrown over.I was very impressed with the new governor, who seemed to be well aware of the problems and firm but humane. I was also impressed with the teacher in the classroom, who was a very robust lady who had been in Shotts, of all places, and thought that the prison officers and the young men at Low Moss were in much better condition than they were at Shotts. That was a change from the findings in the report, but it was published in March so things may have moved on since then. That was why it was important to see things for ourselves, against the background of the report.The visit brought home to me the fact that drugs are the issue. Until we start dealing with the drug community outside and drug problems for youngsters, it will just be a continuous cycle. We cannot deal with these young men's problems in the time that they are there. Eight of them may be dealing with it themselves, but one had already returned to prison. He had gone back out to the community where he was back in the same situation and was targeted again for drugs. He ended up back at Low Moss.The problem is not just the destruction of these men's own lives; they had families and children they were not seeing anymore. Whole families had been broken up.The governor is looking to have four men to a cell. We also saw the solitary confinement cell, which was really awful. The governor wants to change it, too. It had white concrete walls and a maroon floor, with a raised concrete bedding area on which they put a mattress. It is known as the non-ligature area—an expression I had not heard before. There were three men in there at the time of our visit, but we did not want to see them; I am not being soft, but prison visits can be intrusive. Those young men were being punished, but the situation was brutalising. I could not see how it would turn things around."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.0538292+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 6 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 284513,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:33"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2033E106P139C284517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gray, Iain",
      "ID": 2033,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Pentlands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Gray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 284517,
      "EditedText": "I move, That the Parliament's Health and Community Care Committee in consideration of the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/72) recommend that the Order be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2033E106P139C284520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gray, Iain",
      "ID": 2033,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Pentlands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Gray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 284520,
      "EditedText": "I move, That the Parliament's Health and Community Care Committee in consideration of the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/71) recommend that the Order be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 284522,
      "EditedText": "That last order relates to the west coast, whereas our papers told us that all the orders relate to Orkney. I thank the minister for giving us his time this morning. I hope that we will not have to see you on too many occasions such as this. The next time we speak to you it will be about a substantive issue—the issue of community care—that is on today's agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 284524,
      "EditedText": "I take your points on board, Malcolm. Can we hear from the clerk on the issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 284526,
      "EditedText": "It is nice to see you, Iain, but we feel that ministers should come before us when the issues are more controversial—that saves your time as well as ours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2033E106P139C284527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gray, Iain",
      "ID": 2033,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Pentlands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Gray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 284527,
      "EditedText": "I agree, with a little trepidation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 284530,
      "EditedText": "One of the main points raised by the Stracathro group in the petition and in comments to the committee is that there is a continuing erosion of services, which should be halted until after the acute services review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 284531,
      "EditedText": "I realise that we have a tight timetable, but this is an important issue. The decisions that have been taken by the acute services trust in Dundee, which have been defended as being operational, have been interpreted by the staff as a prelude to hospital closure or permanent withdrawal of services. As the patients group said, the decisions appear to pre-empt the acute services review, which is being headed by Professor Jung. With my colleague Roseanna Cunningham—we are both local MSPs—I attended a meeting at Perth City Hall to hear a presentation on the acute services review. Usually, such meetings are attended by 20 or 30 interested people; on this occasion, almost 1,200 attended. The concerns about the possible withdrawal of services that have been expressed at Stracathro are also being expressed by the people of Perth, Kinross and Milnathort. The acute services trust has done itself a grave disservice by taking a decision on operational and financial grounds—which I fully appreciate—to close or partially close those units, albeit without withdrawing specific services. That was politically naive. The trust has given the impression of pre-empting the acute services review and that has done it no good service. The committee can play an important role in getting the debate back on a rational basis. We must call both the Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust and Tayside Health Board to account for their approaches to the issues at Stracathro and the acute services review. We must create an atmosphere that will allow rational debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 284533,
      "EditedText": "Ah, now that is a road that I do not want to go down. Let us keep the meeting friendly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 284536,
      "EditedText": "Based on the representations that have been made to the committee and on committee members' comments, I suggest that we call members of the staff action group and representatives of the acute services trust and from Tayside Health Board. The points that have been raised touch on issues of staff morale and how staff are treated in the health service in Scotland. Malcolm has made a good point about procedural issues. Although that issue demands the committee's attention, it also flags up procedural problems and the committee can help people by pointing them in the right direction and allowing them to learn lessons. If we are to undertake strategic reviews of services in the health service, it is only common sense to wait for the outcome of those reviews rather than for people to prejudge them.On the other hand, as I would not like to think that this committee would prejudge anything, the health board and acute services trust will have an opportunity to tell us their version of what is happening at Stracathro. I thank the committee for giving the matter proper consideration.One problem is that we have a very tight schedule of meetings in order to discuss Arbuthnott and the recess also looming—thankfully. Realistically speaking, it will probably be November before we can timetable in the matter; however, if the committee is happy to let me organise that as soon as possible, I can work with the clerks and bring the matter back to the table."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 284547,
      "EditedText": "There is also the health council. We must narrow our consideration down to the main players."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 284548,
      "EditedText": "Can members leave it with me to get a written statement from a group that I feel best represents the views of patients generally? We can do some investigation behind the scenes to find out who that group might be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 284550,
      "EditedText": "We will take that on board. I will investigate this so that a representative of the patients comes to speak to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 284551,
      "EditedText": "Item 5 is consideration of a proposal for a directive of the European Parliament and of the Council amending a directive on food additives other than colours and sweeteners. It is unfortunate that Hugh Henry is not here this morning, as I had hoped that, as the convener of the European Committee, he would make this proposal clear to us.I do not think that there is a problem with this. The additives in question appear to have been evaluated recently by the scientific committee on food. The thinking is that some countries have had the additives for two years and this proposed directive would standardise the position across the European Union in terms of food safety and free trade.Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 284555,
      "EditedText": "The European Committee meets on 19 October and will require a report from this committee before then. Our next scheduled meeting is 26 October. If we want to make a report, we will have to schedule another meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 284557,
      "EditedText": "This raises the question of the information that we are being given in the statutory instruments. We do not have enough information. Many of the instruments could go through on the nod, but how do we know which ones?Duncan has raised some important points. It seems that we have to come up with something by 19 October, but we received the instruments only two days ago and have only scant information about them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 284561,
      "EditedText": "On Monday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 284563,
      "EditedText": "We tend to go home to our constituencies on Thursday night."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 284565,
      "EditedText": ". I support what Malcolm has said. Paragraph 2.3 of document HC/99/7/2 states:\"The committee's role is to consider whether it has any serious concerns as to whether the directive should be implemented in Scotland as a consequence of it being agreed at UK level.\"I do not have the time to ask the relevant people whether they have any serious concerns. None of us has the research staff to phone round the ophthalmic, pharmaceutical, dental and food additive industries. That means that I am not able to do this job as rigorously as I would like."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 284569,
      "EditedText": "I am happy not to spend much time on this directive and to approve it on a nod and a wink, but I am also keen that we do this properly and are seen to be doing it properly. Is there any way in which researchers or others could inform us of whether there are any serious concerns of which we should be aware, or is it up to us to find out? That would be a very rigorous task."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 284573,
      "EditedText": "I would back most of what Malcolm Chisholm said. We cannot make a blanket decision about how we are to deal with such things because many of them are purely technical issues. I would be concerned about setting a precedent. We should know more about the issue of food additives before making a decision. The fact that it has been through committee at Westminster does not necessarily mean that it would also be in the best interests of Scotland. The whole idea of a Scottish Parliament is to address the needs and wishes of the people of Scotland. Members will not be surprised to hear that its having been through Westminster would not be a recommendation to me simply to nod my head."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 284581,
      "EditedText": "The first document deals with the harmonisation of food additives throughout the European Community, which is part of the completion of the single market. It comes under a strict European directive. It is all very well our using our time to scrutinise the document, but if we disagree with it, what can we do?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 284583,
      "EditedText": "I would like to know the answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 284585,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate what you are saying about the document—you are absolutely right. To allow us to get background research, it would be useful if members could tell you what specific information they were looking for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 284586,
      "EditedText": "Would it be acceptable for members to do that today and tomorrow morning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 284588,
      "EditedText": "We are working to a tight timetable—I appreciate that. The view of the committee is that we should have another meeting to deal with the matter.The next items are negative instruments. We have met them before. No motion has been lodged to \"recommend that nothing further be done under the instrument.\"That is a wonderful line. Perhaps it is too early in the morning for me.Some of the instruments are worth commenting on. I believe that the Subordinate Legislation Committee has done so; we would do well to echo some of its comments. All the SSIs are subject to the negative procedure. The report states:\"Any MSP may by motion propose to the lead committee that the Committee recommend that nothing further be done under the instrument. No motions have been lodged.\"I think that that means that we can simply take note and agree that the attention of Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Dental Practice Board Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/52)",
      "HeadingID": 7530,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ID": 7530,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 284592,
      "EditedText": "Most of the instruments are in connection with the fact that we deal with primary care trusts now. I note again the comments made about the instrument by the Subordinate Legislation Committee.Is the committee happy to agree that the attention of the Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument? It is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Service Committees and Tribunal) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/53)",
      "HeadingID": 7531,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 7531,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 284594,
      "EditedText": "The problem is that whenever an item of service, such as tests, can be paid for by the health service, it is possible for practitioners to undertake those tests more frequently than is clinically necessary to obtain additional items of service. Therefore, there should be provision for investigation, which is usually carried out by a peer group. It is a benchmarking exercise in which outliers are examined. If a practitioner starts carrying out four times as many tests on a community as before or starts carrying out repeated tests on individuals, and those are permitted under the item of service claim, the situation can be investigated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Act 1999 (Fund-Holding Practices) (Transfer of Assets, Savings, Rights and Liabilities and Transitional Provisions) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/56)",
      "HeadingID": 7534,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 7534,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 284602,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Pharmaceutical Services) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/57)",
      "HeadingID": 7535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ID": 7535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 284603,
      "EditedText": "Again, no motion has been lodged. Is the committee happy to agree that the attention of Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Pharmaceutical Services) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/57)",
      "HeadingID": 7535,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ID": 7535,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 284604,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Travelling Expenses and Remission of Charges) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/63)",
      "HeadingID": 7536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ID": 7536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 284607,
      "EditedText": "We have to cut through the gobbledegook. There is no point in our being given an explanatory note if it refers to things that we do not have in front of us. It is then meaningless and worthless."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Travelling Expenses and Remission of Charges) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/63)",
      "HeadingID": 7536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ID": 7536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 284608,
      "EditedText": "Parliament will not be able to consider the instrument because we cannot turn it around, according to standing orders. It is important that when there is a problem the committee should flag it up, so we can return to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 284621,
      "EditedText": "We must be careful not to pre-empt our investigation into the delivery of community care. Bed blocking is a very emotive term. Community care must be needs led, rather than resource led. People are left in inappropriate hospital wards because—if there are more than 100 people on a waiting list and only four can be moved each month—local authorities and social work departments give priority to people in the community as people in hospital are seen to be safe, if not appropriately placed. The bed blocking continues because of that.We must make a list of people from whom we want to take evidence. Mary mentioned that the Federation of Small Businesses has a private nursing home section that might give us some useful information. There are also local authority residential homes, Church of Scotland homes and various other Churches that are involved in the provision of care for the elderly. It will be a big list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 284624,
      "EditedText": "I should begin by declaring interests. I am still the director of a nursing home company, albeit one that does not operate in Scotland. My son is a health service researcher and published a paper in Health Bulletin in March on the subject of inappropriate placement of patients. The paper gave a conservative estimate of the costs arising from inappropriate placement of £41 million per year.As Kay said, the money is the lesser of the two problems. Obviously, it is a problem that we cannot avoid and, being responsible for the public purse, we should try to use money as best we can. However—and here I disagree with Kay—hospitals are not safe. They are perceived as being safe, but they are not. Of course, staff do their level best, but inappropriate placement leads to two problems for hospital patients. First, they run the risk of infection and, secondly, they run the risk of institutionalisation and dependency, which makes it more difficult to maximise their potential thereafter. I want to know what funds have been transferred from health boards to local authorities as part of the closure of long-term-stay beds. I also want to know what proportion of that money has been used for nursing home accommodation, for part IV accommodation and for home care packages. The main thrust of the Government's—and now the Scottish Executive's—policy on community care is that everybody should be managed at home if at all possible. We need to know whether some of the waiting list crises have arisen because there is not enough money or because there are not enough staff with the right skills to undertake home care packages. We must find out what is actually causing the block, and we must not make too many assumptions until we know what it is. A lot of money has been transferred, but we need to know how much.There is another side to the coin. If a health board closes a unit or a hospital, the savings that are made are quite substantial. If it closes a few beds in a ward, the savings are much less. We need to know the total savings, how much has been retained by the health board and what the health board has then used that money for. I have heard that up to 50 per cent of the funds have been retained by health boards. That might not be inappropriate, but I do not have a feel for it. If the money is being used to support other services that are not in the community, that might be part of the problem about transfer.We need to examine those detailed issues. We also need to review the vacancy monitoring arrangements for nursing homes and part IV accommodation in the private, independent, voluntary and local authority sectors. In the past week I have obtained documents about that, but we need a researcher to examine those documents and compile them so that we have a view from 1993—when the Community Care Act 1990 came in—of what has been happening in terms of placement trends. The document has been difficult to review because of the changes in the local authority system. It used to be based on the regions but has now been transferred to individual authorities and, at the point of the change, the tables have been altered. I am sorry to go into so much detail, but we need someone to review that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 284627,
      "EditedText": "For the record, I did not say that hospitals were safe places. I said that local authorities see them as safer as opposed to housing someone in an inappropriate home. I am pretty certain that the term \"part IV\" is no longer used. Perhaps it was known as part IV when Richard and I were both involved in the delivery of community care services, but now people refer to residential accommodation as opposed to nursing homes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 284628,
      "EditedText": "I hope, Kay, that by the time that we have finished with this, we will be complete experts on such matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 284629,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we will be experts on jargon.I back up what Richard said about resource transfer and the problems that surround that approach. A couple of years ago, one of the organisations involved with the elderly—it might have been Age Concern—produced figures that showed a great variation in the amount transferred for a bed from health board to local authority. The amount could vary from about £8,000 to £32,000. It seems that there is a need for national standards and guidelines; we should examine the issue of resource transfer. I want to put down a marker for inviting to the committee professional social work organisations, such as the British Association of Social Workers, the Association of Directors of Social Work, Unison, the British Medical Association and the Royal College of Nursing—the list is almost endless."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 284630,
      "EditedText": "It has been brought to the attention of the conveners committee over the past couple of weeks that quite a lot of our housekeeping discussions are going on the record because the official reporters are present. If everyone is agreeable, towards the end of this discussion, I will ask the committee to continue the meeting without the official reporters, when we can discuss who we want to invite to the committee. That means that the official reporters will not have to spend time writing up our discussion and it will free up the official report's time, which is quite precious. We are still in public session, but we will come back to those issues and take everyone's suggestions when the official reporters have left."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 284642,
      "EditedText": "No—we will do that after the end of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 284634,
      "EditedText": "Let us not go on and on. I mentioned the housekeeping part of our business earlier. I have been instructed that we should bring the formal part of the meeting to a close and then—in public—discuss which people we would like to hear from. At that point, Dorothy can suggest organisations that are dealing with particular complaints, disabilities and so on. We will still be in public—and in committee, if you like—but the official reporters do not have to spend their time listening to that. We should return now to more general topics.The key point that has been raised in connection with community care is care of the elderly. We will be considering the Sutherland report.The mental health issues on which we broadly agree are resource transfer and the funding of community care, and the need for co-ordination of care between the health and social work services.If we accept those matters as part of our remit, at the end of the meeting we can discuss among ourselves the groups that we want to invite as witnesses. We will probably unintentionally miss out some people, so we will also put out a general call for written statements from anyone in the field who wants to contribute.Until we have a better idea of our work load, we should not set a timetable. This is not going to be a quick fix—if we are to do this, we will do it properly and well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 284635,
      "EditedText": "It seems that we will be working on Arbuthnott intensively for two or three weeks after the recess. It is perfectly normal practice, even in this Parliament, to ask for written evidence first. Why do we not put out a call for written evidence to be submitted before the end of October? Then, at the beginning of November, we could decide from whom we want to take oral evidence. As far as I can see from our timetable, we will not be able to hear oral evidence until mid-November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 284638,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 284639,
      "EditedText": "We are all agreed that we want to hear from him—he is my constituent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2033E106P139C284515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gray, Iain",
      "ID": 2033,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Pentlands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Community Care (Iain Gray): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 284515,
      "EditedText": "I would like to say that I am pleased to be here, although it took some arm-twisting—the legal advice that a minister has to move an affirmative statutory instrument as Susan Deacon did before.With your forbearance, I move, That the Parliament's Health and Community Care Committee in consideration of the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/73) recommend that the Order be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 284519,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 284525,
      "EditedText": "The legal advice on that is not absolutely settled. The committee office's view was that we should probably play safe until it is settled, but it is certainly under review. Malcolm's point will be taken on board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 284529,
      "EditedText": "I am very worried about the Stracathro petition. I want to ensure that we are seen to respond to people's genuine and on-going concerns. I am concerned that there is a move towards locating all hospitals in major cities. Stracathro serves Angus and the Howe of the Mearns—it is almost a matter for the Rural Affairs Committee.I am also concerned about the gradual running down of services. I visited Stracathro in the summer. As Kay Ullrich has said, the situation is death by a thousand cuts. Although I would like to think that the Rural Affairs Committee will take an interest, I suggest that we allocate some time to listen to representatives from Stracathro and Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust. In this age of openness and accountability, those people should give us their views and explain any decisions that have been taken. That could happen after the acute services review, which is due quite soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 284532,
      "EditedText": "We should have an investigation into the matter and a presentation from the parties involved. As we know, many nurses and staff from Stracathro visited the Parliament recently. There are 25,000 signatures on the petition—the entire population of Angus is only about 111,000—which represents the majority of the adult population of the area. I have never seen such a high ratio of signatures on any of the many petitions in which I have been involved. That really is vox populi and we must heed it.When one reads the evidence, it appears that the health board is extremely concerned because there is a £10 million deficit and closing a hospital seems the easy way out. As it is the only district general hospital in the whole of Angus, I think that we have to ask some searching questions. Furthermore, I note that Beattie Media does the publicity for Tayside Health Board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 284534,
      "EditedText": "I just want to reiterate what every other member has said. This petition is worthy of the committee's action. If a health service is to work properly and serve the community, the morale of health service workers must be in good shape. It is obvious that the people at Stracathro are working under very strained circumstances and there is much concern about that. The committee should call both the people who have presented the petition and representatives from the trust and the health board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 284538,
      "EditedText": "I will take on board Richard's comments and come back to committee members as soon as possible with a date to get this actioned. Our work load and housekeeping matters such as access to rooms may affect our ability to do this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 284549,
      "EditedText": "I have a letter from the Brechin and district patients association. It says that the association is\"supported by people from all walks of life and their commitment to Stracathro is the unifying agent.\"The association is an \"apolitical organisation\" supporting the work of the hospital."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 284552,
      "EditedText": "I have several comments. A theme that will run through most of today's meeting is that we still do not have sufficient information on this stuff. I will give an example from this directive. The appendix to the paper on consideration of European documents talks about consultation. This committee wants to examine the impact of directives and statutory instruments on people—that is the point, presumably, of consulting interested parties, consumer organisations, industry, and so on. An analysis of responses is not attached so we do not know what such people think of this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 284553,
      "EditedText": "All we had was an impact assessment form."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 284556,
      "EditedText": "We are going to have to make a choice: either we proceed on the basis that the dates are against us—and be aware that we will have to work with partial information—or we think of a way around the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 284559,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we should insist on detailed information about everything. This directive raises many interesting general points that may come up in tomorrow's debate on concordats. David Martin said that 50 per cent of the legislation that we process in this Parliament will be European legislation, so this is a major issue. The relationship between this Parliament, Whitehall and Europe will feature prominently in tomorrow's debate.As I said yesterday, if we had access to directives and statutory instruments at an earlier stage, we could flag up whether we want to know more about them. Because the statutory instruments that we will be dealing with later in this meeting are technical, we will not require a briefing on those. If we do not use our discretion, the committee will become tied up on unimportant matters. However, we do not have any evidence that enables us either to accept or to reject this directive. On the whole, one would tend to assume that the scientific advice is correct, but we are probably right to be sceptical—there was an item in the news this morning about food additives. Ideally, this should have been flagged up beforehand so that those of us who wanted to contact interested organisations could have done so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 284564,
      "EditedText": "I know. It is handy to know when people received these papers, as the current situation is unsatisfactory from our point of view. We have to fit in with other committees' time scales."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 284568,
      "EditedText": "You do not want that put on record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 284570,
      "EditedText": "We do not have a meeting between today and 26 October. The European Committee meets on 19 October and has to deal with the instrument then. Theoretically, what Mary said about access to research or references is correct, but we do not have a meeting scheduled to deal with this matter. We would have to timetable a special meeting, ask for research to be done prior to that and have anyone that we wanted to speak to appear before us. We cannot fashion that out of the air."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 284571,
      "EditedText": "I am not asking for a special meeting. Yesterday Ben had one of his researchers phone round some of the major food industries to ask whether they had any concerns. I thought that that was an excellent approach. However, we do not have the staff to pursue it. I am not asking for further meetings, but is there anything that would allow us to fulfil our role as outlined in paragraph 2.3?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 284572,
      "EditedText": "At the conveners committee yesterday, as a result of my taking forward points about research back-up that had been raised in this committee, a report about research was put before us. There will be some changes in the way in which the internal research capacity works and we were given some indication of the budgets. This year, the budgets cover both internal and external research capabilities, including special advisers, and they seem reasonable given that this is a short year. I maintained our position that we were not happy with the amount of research back-up to which committees have access. That is an on-going problem, and we hope that it can be addressed using the limited resources that are available. It has been suggested that, twice a year, committees and conveners should give researchers an indication of their research needs. That does not mean that we can phone them at home on a Friday night and say, \"By the way, can you do some research on food additives for me by Wednesday morning?\" Some of the ideas that have been put to us were good, but I added the caveat, on behalf of the committee, that I was still unhappy about the level of research. We still do not have a research capability and, as you said, Mary, that will mean that members of the committee will end up using their own staff. My assistant, who is employed to help with constituency work, spends 50 to 60 per cent of her time on committee business. The work will fall on our own staff and on researchers in our party groups. With respect to all the researchers in our party groups, we need access to non-partisan research, and that will be difficult. Later this year, we shall tackle the issue of community care and I hope that we can give our research back-up a steer as to the issues that we want to consider so that, over the next few weeks, they can do that background work for us. We must be aware of the constraints under which they are working and give them as much time as possible, but we should be able to demand that service of other instruments in the Parliament. As a committee, we need to know in good time whether we need to hear evidence or whether we need research. It is not acceptable to have papers delivered to members just a couple of days before a committee. By the time people are back in Edinburgh on a Monday afternoon, there is too little time to study the research papers before a 9.30 committee on a Tuesday morning.That takes us away somewhat from the problem before us, but it is worth putting our concerns on record. I know that the Presiding Officer reads all our deliberations, so maybe he will read this and take it on board. Coming back to food additives, do you have any comments, Kay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 284574,
      "EditedText": "The non-partisan point that I made, Kay, was that the instrument has also gone through the scientific committee and Westminster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 284575,
      "EditedText": "I do not doubt that we may end up coming to the same view, but I do not want to create a precedent. We must be careful that we do not allow things to slip through that may not be in the best interests of the health and well-being of the people of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 284576,
      "EditedText": "We have had this discussion at great length before. It was Ben, I think, who said that the committee was not being shown the respect it deserved. A message has been sent that we are not getting enough time, yet here we are, back in the same position. Frankly, it does not fill me with great hope for the future. We must remember what the committee's role is. If we pass the instrument that is before us, we are saying that we are happy with it. We will then be on record as officially having given the nod to something that we do not properly understand. As you say, convener—and I have no doubt that you are correct—the time scale is entirely inflexible and there is no way that the deadline can be pushed back. We therefore have two options. If the instrument absolutely must go through, we can pass it on the nod. However, if we do that, we should make a statement to say that we are passing it purely as an administrative procedure, and not in any way on the instrument's merits, for which we have no evidence. Alternatively, we do not pass it. I come back to the point that not all instruments have the same worth or weight. I have questions on, perhaps, four or five of them, but that is not to say that the rest of them could not go through as a technicality. Could we put those ones through, to get them out of the way, and come back to consider the contentious ones? Convener, you will have to tell us whether we can do that, as it will be driven by the timetable. If we are wasting our time trying to consider this instrument again, we should move on, but say explicitly that we are passing it only as an administrative procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 284577,
      "EditedText": "There are obviously strong feelings about this issue, which I accept and echo. The key question is whether committee members feel strongly enough. We can pass the instruments with a caveat, as Duncan suggested, that we are doing so purely as an administrative thing, due to lack of time. However, if we feel strongly enough about it, we can say that we must have another meeting of the committee and call witnesses. I will get a feel for how the committee wants to proceed once Richard has spoken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 284578,
      "EditedText": "We need to separate the specific issue from the general issue. On the general issue of the time we have to consider instruments, the committee's view seems to be clear—we are getting a little frustrated, to put it extremely mildly, at being given instruments, which may or may not be contentious, at such short notice. We are all agreed on that. We should, therefore, make a statement saying that we are not prepared in future to consider statutory instruments that are laid before us at one day's notice. We have the right to decide our agenda and we will say that we will not accept such instruments onto it. We need to take a tough line on that matter. Furthermore, we are signed up to various levels of representation and democracy. Members of the European Parliament have presumably considered, discussed and debated such European legislation, as the UK Government will have done, in terms of how it affects the areas of the United Kingdom for which it is responsible. We receive such legislation third hand. It should not, therefore, be impossible when the instruments are laid to receive at least an indication of how the debates at other levels went. If debate has not taken place at the other two levels, we have an obligation not to pass the regulations without having a proper discussion. If it has, it is a matter of judgment—we must decide whether the debate was adequate. If it was inadequate, as Kay suggests, we need to reconsider. The specific instrument before us deals with additives, which are a difficult subject—they are not non-contentious, as some of the other instruments that have been laid before us are. On a fairly rapid reading, it seems that this instrument deals in part with areas such as gases being used for packaging—something for which the United Kingdom has been pressing for a considerable time. Our food industry has already been using gases. The document therefore ensures that the European legislation comes into line with what we have been seeking.Page 4 of the explanatory memorandum says that the \"temporary . . . authorisation for the use of the propellant gases butane, iso-butane and propane in certain vegetable oil food sprays . . . lapsed at the end of December 1997.\"The Government has been pressing the Commission to come forward with proposals, so the Commission is responding to something that we have been asking for. Presumably, the United Kingdom Government considered the scientific evidence before making the Miscellaneous Food Additives Regulations 1995. There has already been a series of debates on this issue.I do not have any problems with the gases, but I have no feel for the other bits, which deal with wood rosins and propylene. We may have to take them on the nod."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 284579,
      "EditedText": "We should not pass anything to do with food additives and colourants. We are not here to be ciphers, just rubber-stamping anything. I have not read through the papers at all—I have been in Glasgow for the past two days. I am not prepared to put my name to them, just as you would not want to sign a blank cheque. We should turn down the two most contentious ones—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 284580,
      "EditedText": "There are two separate types of business for us—there is a European document and there are Scottish statutory instruments. At the moment, we are considering the request for European scrutiny advice. Having listened to members' comments, I am minded to try to find time for a further meeting to look at the issue. That would also provide a further opportunity to find out more about the particular food additives. We need proper notification of matters that are to be put before us, so that we can do some background research and can learn about the debates which, as Richard said, have been held elsewhere on European directives and so on.In this instance, we probably would have been okay, but why should I and why should committee members, as elected representatives, pass something just because we think that it is probably all right? That is not good enough. We are in a Parliament and we have to have respect for ourselves—that is the message that I am hearing loud and clear from the committee.We will proceed with this at a future meeting, which we will have to arrange. In the meantime, with the clerks and the research team, I will come up with some background research and some ideas on the people whom we might call as witnesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 284582,
      "EditedText": "We have to investigate that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 284584,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we need to know the answer. This is probably the first of many such European proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284589",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 284589,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a general point. There is a serious issue about the standing orders, particularly rule 10.4. The Parliament is trying to deal with statutory instruments in a better way than Westminster does, but it seems that we are dealing with them worse than Westminster because we can discuss them all we like, but—as there is no motion—we cannot do anything about them.Paragraphs 1, 3 and 4 of rule 10.4, which all mention 40 days, do not make sense. We should amend that rule to ensure that motions can be lodged within 40 days. We are time-barred already: even if we find that there is something terribly wrong with the SSIs, there is nothing that we can do about it.If we find a problem with these SSIs today, we should be able to lodge a motion within 40 days, but we cannot because of the other daft rules that state that the Parliament has to debate them within 40 days as well. It is impossible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 284590,
      "EditedText": "We should bring that to the attention of the Procedures Committee.I do not want to spend too much time on the SSIs, but we should make comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Service Committees and Tribunal) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/53)",
      "HeadingID": 7531,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 7531,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 284593,
      "EditedText": "The explanatory note states that these regulations\"also amend the principal Regulations to introduce a provision whereby excessive sight testing or excessive issuing of vouchers may be investigated\".I was rather confused about how that would be decided. What is the definition of excessive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Service Committees and Tribunal) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/53)",
      "HeadingID": 7531,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 7531,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 284595,
      "EditedText": "Fair enough. That reassures me. However, we do not know whether that is the case in this instance—we do not know what triggers the procedure, and we do not know what mechanism exists for conducting the investigation. That causes me some concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 7532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ID": 7532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 284597,
      "EditedText": "Is the committee happy to agree that the attention of Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Ophthalmic Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/55)",
      "HeadingID": 7533,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ID": 7533,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 284599,
      "EditedText": "The Subordinate Legislation Committee noted that the instrument had already been amended 11 times, and that we should give priority to consolidation of it. That is a point well made. The instrument relates to eligibility for free eye tests, taking into account benefits such as working families tax credit. Is the committee happy to agree that the attention of Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Travelling Expenses and Remission of Charges) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/63)",
      "HeadingID": 7536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ID": 7536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 284605,
      "EditedText": "Again, no motion has been lodged. Is the committee happy to agree that the attention of Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Travelling Expenses and Remission of Charges) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/63)",
      "HeadingID": 7536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ID": 7536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 284609,
      "EditedText": "We should probably raise that with the Procedures Committee as another item relating to SSIs in general. We can use the instrument as a specific example. It is sometimes easier for us to explain what we mean when we have a solid example—this is a fairly solid example of lack of information.However, with that caveat, are we happy to accept the instrument as outlined?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Travelling Expenses and Remission of Charges) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/63)",
      "HeadingID": 7536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ID": 7536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 284610,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Optical Charges and Payments) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/64)",
      "HeadingID": 7537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ID": 7537,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 284613,
      "EditedText": "I thank members of the committee once again for their forbearance and patience when dealing with the instruments. I am sure that all of us agree that, although they may be quite important in themselves, we are being put in an incredibly frustrating position by having to consider them without being able to do much about them. I am sure that we look forward to moving on to a more substantive discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Optical Charges and Payments) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/64)",
      "HeadingID": 7537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ID": 7537,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 284614,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a specific proposal, which probably will have to be put to the Procedures Committee. Committees consider statutory instruments before the deadline for lodging motions has passed. The Scottish Parliament is trying to deal with statutory instruments better than Westminster does. In principle, it is good that they are presented to a committee—even if the committee just nods them through—but it is pointless if that committee cannot then lodge a motion. The simple way to deal with this is to omit \"40 days\" from paragraphs 3 and 4 of rule 10.4, so that if, having considered an instrument, the committee decides to lodge a motion, it can do so within 40 days. The rest will follow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Optical Charges and Payments) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/64)",
      "HeadingID": 7537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ID": 7537,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 284615,
      "EditedText": "If the committee agrees, I will write in that vein to the convener of the Procedures Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Optical Charges and Payments) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/64)",
      "HeadingID": 7537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ID": 7537,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 284616,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 284620,
      "EditedText": "Mary's key point is that we need to ensure that people receive the appropriate care. There has been a tendency for people to think that politicians who discuss bed blocking and so on simply focus on the financial aspects of care; the crucial issue is the appropriateness of care for the individual. Many people in acute hospital beds would, with some support, be able to remain in their own homes with their families, or they could have another form of residential care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 284623,
      "EditedText": "Sir Stewart Sutherland has made recommendations on caring about carers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 284637,
      "EditedText": "Sir Stewart Sutherland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
      "HeadingID": 7539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 7539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 284643,
      "EditedText": "The next item concerns a report on the process for dealing with emergency business. We have already had a couple of discussions on that process, and I am keen to ensure that we do not get bogged down in having to react all the time. However, paper HC/99/7/22 allows me some discretion in deciding what should be on our agenda. It also states:\"Standing Orders contain no references to the conduct of emergency business in committees.\"Emergency business is handled on the floor of the Parliament. I hope that that is acceptable. Does anyone wish to comment? Shall we simply note the contents of that paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
      "HeadingID": 7539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 7539,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 284644,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
      "HeadingID": 7539,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 284645,
      "EditedText": "The meeting continued informally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4297894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 284514,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to this meeting of the Health and Community Care Committee. Our friends the statutory instruments have returned to haunt us again. I welcome the Deputy Minister for Community Care, Iain Gray, to his first meeting of this committee.The first three items on the agenda today are instruments that are subject to approval. All of them deal with amnesic shellfish poisoning, an issue that we have considered before in some depth. These orders concentrate on incidents around the coast of Orkney. I would like to let the minister lay the motions before us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 284516,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 284518,
      "EditedText": "I forgot that one of them was an east coast order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7526,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 284521,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning Orders",
      "HeadingID": 7526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 284523,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that we are all pleased to see Iain at this time in the morning, but I am surprised by what he said about the legal advice. Paper 15 on procedure says that if a member who gives notice of a motion does not move it, it can be moved by any other member who has indicated his or her support for it before the end of the previous meeting day. Is something that, as a result of a previous debate, is known to be uncontroversial, a good use of a minister's time? Could that be investigated further?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 284528,
      "EditedText": "Item 4 on our agenda—a petition from Stracathro hospital—will probably generate more discussion than the previous items. The committee may remember a representation by members of the Stracathro staff action committee in one of our meetings some weeks ago. As a result of that visit, the Stracathro staff have lodged a petition—the first to be placed before us in that way—through the Public Petitions Committee. I have a vested interest, as I sit on that committee. The Public Petitions Committee will keep a watchful eye on what subject committees do with the petitions that are passed to them. The Parliament should ensure that when representations are made to it, they are given full and proper consideration, despite the tight timetables for our work load. I am aware that a petition gives only one side of the story, but this one makes quite worrying reading. Some aspects have already been raised by the staff action committee, particularly communication problems between the health board and the work force at Stracathro. As the petition has in excess of 25,000 signatures on it, the committee should spend some time on an initial discussion about it before taking any action. So far, only one petition has been dealt with formally by a subject committee, but it was decided that the matter was not within the competence of that committee and it turned it around. We are treading into new territory here. We will have a general discussion and then discuss how we can take the matter forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 284535,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the general points that have been made. Perhaps we should emphasise procedural points such as whether the health board and the trust have been consulting fully and pre-empting the results of the acute services review. It is right that we hold health boards and trusts to account, but I would like to flag up a slight reservation. We do not want to give the impression that we are against the reorganisation of services. Saying that the status quo is acceptable is not a tenable position—although I am speaking generally, as I do not know about the specific case. I do not think that we are giving such an impression, but I want to put that down as a marker. It is clear that we need a health services review and that, in some cases, difficult decisions about reorganisation need to be taken. Although I support what has been said, we have to emphasise procedural points and to hold the health board and trust to account for the way in which they are going about this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 284537,
      "EditedText": "I find that acceptable. However, the only thing that concerns me is that I am not absolutely sure of the acute services review; I think that it will come out in December or January. Furthermore, the atmosphere that has been created by the events at Stracathro will harm Tayside Health Board's prospects of undertaking the acute services review in a rational way. We could allocate not even a whole meeting, but an hour or an hour and a quarter to deal with the matter.We could provide a good service, most importantly for the staff and patients of Stracathro, but also for the trust and health board, which will be in grave difficulties if the Perth situation reflects the general attitude in Tayside."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 284539,
      "EditedText": "You did not mention the Brechin and district patients association."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 284540,
      "EditedText": "I did not—you are absolutely right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 284541,
      "EditedText": "It is an outside body.May I throw another suggestion into the air? The editor of the local newspaper has done a remarkable job with that petition. It might be useful to receive a written statement from the editor on how difficult it has been to get information. A local editor can give more of an overview than there has been in previous cases. The secrecy surrounding this concerns me considerably."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 284542,
      "EditedText": "I agree that it might be useful to have a statement. We do not want a cast of thousands appearing. It is sufficient to have the action group, the trust and the health board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 284543,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy, do you think that we should get a statement from the Brechin and district patients association?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 284544,
      "EditedText": "No. I suggest that we speak to a representative of that association. I suggested that, to save time, we get a written statement from the local paper. We do not want to add a vast number of witnesses, but I think that that will give a useful overview."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 284545,
      "EditedText": "Is that patients group the only one involved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition",
      "HeadingID": 7527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 7527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 284546,
      "EditedText": "It is the major one of which I am aware. I realise that we do not want to get tributaries of the main river. The patients association was formed in 1991 to counter a perceived threat to Brechin infirmary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 284554,
      "EditedText": "The impact assessment form says that the proposal will have no effect on employment. I would like to be able to test that. How can that be said with any degree of certainty? Although there is more to this briefing than we normally get, I still do not think that there is enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 284558,
      "EditedText": "It would probably have been unfair to Hugh, but he could have given us some background information if he had been here. However, committees should not have to process SSIs on the basis that one of their members sits on another committee.I have raised the issue of statutory instruments with the conveners committee and with Murray Tosh, the convener of the Procedures Committee. Murray has written to George Reid, the Deputy Presiding Officer, to say that the way in which the Health and Community Care Committee has had to deal with instruments has been unacceptable.As Duncan said, we have been given more information on this instrument than on others, but without full information we cannot be sure that what we are doing is acceptable. There is no way out of this that I can see. The issue appears to have been investigated elsewhere. As Duncan said, we are not getting the full arguments put to us; we are getting a précis of what other people have done. It is assumed that we will pass an instrument on the nod on the basis of work that has been done elsewhere without our investigating, for example, what the additives are and what they do. What has Westminster done? We note that the instrument has been to committees in Westminster but we have only the bare bones. On this occasion, I am minded to accept the instrument and put it through. What level of information does the committee require on items of this sort? How much time do members want to spend considering them? By going back to basics, so to speak, we would be sending a message to clerks and others that we want a high level of information on all instruments, as they could not second-guess which ones we wanted to investigate further. Obviously, that would require more time from them and us, and would have resource implications. What are the committee's views on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 284560,
      "EditedText": "When did members receive these papers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 284562,
      "EditedText": "If my memory serves me correctly, I received them on Friday. I was able to read them on Saturday, so I must have received them the day before. However, this was an added item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 284566,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the fault lies with you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 284567,
      "EditedText": "I do not think so either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Additives",
      "HeadingID": 7528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ID": 7528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 284587,
      "EditedText": "It was becoming an interesting political discussion, but I will not go down that route. Directives are interesting, and I hope that they will come up tomorrow. There is flexibility in the implementation of some directives, and the situation becomes interesting in terms of Whitehall and the Scottish Parliament.I agree in principle with what you are saying, but I am not clear when the meetings will take place if the European Committee is to deal with the matter on 19 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Dental Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/51)",
      "HeadingID": 7529,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ID": 7529,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 284591,
      "EditedText": "I note that the Subordinate Legislation Committee felt that the instrument was overdue for consolidation. In some cases, there have been several amendments already, which makes a powerful case for consolidation.Is the committee happy to agree that the attention of the Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument? It is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Service Committees and Tribunal) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/53)",
      "HeadingID": 7531,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ID": 7531,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 284596,
      "EditedText": "Is the committee happy to agree that the attention of the Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument? It is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 7532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ID": 7532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 284598,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Ophthalmic Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/55)",
      "HeadingID": 7533,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ID": 7533,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 284600,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Act 1999 (Fund-Holding Practices) (Transfer of Assets, Savings, Rights and Liabilities and Transitional Provisions) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/56)",
      "HeadingID": 7534,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 7534,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 284601,
      "EditedText": "Again, I note comments by the Subordinate Legislation Committee on the instrument. Is the committee happy to agree that the attention of Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Travelling Expenses and Remission of Charges) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/63)",
      "HeadingID": 7536,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ID": 7536,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 284606,
      "EditedText": "What I have to say will not change the fact that Parliament will not be considering the instrument, but I want to put it on the record. The explanatory note states:\"Regulation 4 amends Table A in Schedule 1 to the principal Regulations . . . in relation to the calculation of resources in the case of students.\"That might be an issue, but we do not have table A. I would love to know why there is a lack of transparency as to the impact that the measure will have on the calculation for students."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Optical Charges and Payments) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/64)",
      "HeadingID": 7537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ID": 7537,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 284611,
      "EditedText": "Again, no motion has been lodged. Is the committee happy to agree that the attention of Parliament should not be drawn to this instrument?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Optical Charges and Payments) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/64)",
      "HeadingID": 7537,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ID": 7537,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 284612,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 284617,
      "EditedText": "We now move to item 15, under which—thank goodness—we will discuss community care.As members know, we have gone a long way towards setting our agenda according to what we think is important. There was a great deal of support for an examination of community care. We will have a general discussion about the issues that come under the community care umbrella. I thank Murray McVicar and Morag Brown for the research notes that they produced for us. Last week, I was told that they would not be able to do that, so I appreciate that they have made a real effort to give us something on which to base our discussion.I hope that at the end of our discussion we will have some idea of the direction and remit, and of the aspects of community care that we are interested in examining. That will be helpful for our choice of background reading and will enable us to give specific research topics to the researchers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 284618,
      "EditedText": "As we want to examine community care and the Sutherland report, our consideration should be in two sections. First, we must examine community care at present, particularly in terms of the funding to local authorities. It is difficult to get information about the number of people on local authority waiting lists for long-term residential or nursing care as, I understand, the figures are not held centrally, but must come from each local authority. I suggest that, to start with, we undertake a trawl of local authorities to find out how many people are on waiting lists for long-term residential or nursing care, and what the funding is. For example, I know of a local authority that has 113 people on a waiting list and which has the funding to place only four people a month. We need such information, so that we know the real state of affairs and whether there is a crisis in placing people. That concerns disabled as well as elderly people. One can see from the briefing that mental health organisations are involved. Bed blocking is the emotive issue. Let us consider the situation by local authority and establish what the problem is in Scotland.Secondly, many people believe that the way forward in the funding of community care is to follow the recommendations of Sir Stewart Sutherland's commission. We will want Sir Stewart to give evidence to us, and we will also want to talk to people who are involved with mental health associations and Age Concern. We should talk to a selection of directors of social work—we cannot meet all 32—from differently sized rural and city authorities, to find out what the problems are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 284619,
      "EditedText": "At the Labour party conference, Sir Stewart Sutherland made the alarming statement that £750 million that is allocated to care for the elderly in the UK is lost. We do not have a Scottish figure, but I have lodged a written question on the matter.We must consider the interface between councils and the NHS. We need to ask why more than 1,600 patients are lying in beds in acute hospitals in Scotland, costing between £700 and £1,100 per week. That clogs up hospitals and waiting lists. Those patients could be cared for in residential homes or in the community at less than half that cost. That would alleviate bed blocking.As well as considering the care providers that Kay mentioned, I suggest that we hear from the Scottish Association of Care Home Owners, which is a good example of public-private partnership. I would also like to consider good practice. In Monday's Edinburgh Evening News, I was pleased to read that Lothian Health is uniting the funding of social work and the NHS to provide a single budget for care of the elderly. That will ensure that the patient really is at the heart of the health service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 284622,
      "EditedText": "We want to hear from organisations such as Age Concern and the mental health charities. It will be an extensive list, because there is a large client group of people with different types of disabilities, such as dementia, but also HIV and AIDS, and drug and alcohol problems. It is important that we hear from carers. The committee should put on record the great debt that Scotland owes to the thousands of people who care for relatives and friends. Those people save us an incredible amount of money and make the lives of the people for whom they care immeasurably better. I want to take the opportunity to mention young people who care for their parents at the same time as going through the difficulties of growing up. We should try to listen to what carers organisations have to say about the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 284625,
      "EditedText": "Richard, you may recall that, at the previous meeting, I said that we will have access to an intern from the University of Edinburgh who will do some research for us for 10 weeks. The full-time research staff will keep a watchful eye on this issue as well. We will need a lot of research, and it will be useful to have another person who will be able to work full time on this project for the committee, as that will mean that we can probably accommodate it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 284626,
      "EditedText": "My final point follows on from Mary's point. The management executive and the social work services group between them should be able to give us illustrations of good practice, and we should ask for that. For example, I understand that, in Aberdeen, one of the long-stay hospitals was about to be closed but, instead of closing, its management was transferred and the social work department and the health board now jointly manage it, which means that there is a safety valve on the acute system. Along with Mary's example, that makes two examples and we need the social work services group and the management executive to give us more examples of good practice. There are some examples in the document that contained proposals on community care, which was produced earlier in the year. We need to understand those proposals and to assess why good practice is not being rolled out, if that is the case. Is there a mechanism that the social work services group and the management executive can follow, to ensure that local authorities, health boards and trusts take up good practice? How are they held to account to ensure that good practice is followed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 284631,
      "EditedText": "We have a massive subject—our usual problem. We must try to focus on certain aspects, which might mean making some hard decisions. The two main areas of community care on which the committee should focus are care of the elderly and mental health, which would open up general issues such as appropriateness of care, funding and co-ordinating social work and health. There are other pressing reasons to examine those areas. Although I should not need to explain why we should consider care of the elderly, we have to take into account the Sutherland commission and the winter problems that always arise. Mary referred to Sir Stewart Sutherland's comments about how much local authorities spend on the elderly.The issue of mental health was raised in the committee two or three weeks ago in relation to acute beds. I am told that an interesting Accounts Commission report is coming out in November, which I believe will flag up how money from the closure of mental health beds has not always been spent on mental health. Mental health issues such as funding, the appropriateness of care and co-ordination will form a large agenda for the committee. Obviously, as we know what the issues are without knowing the answers, there is no point in repeating matters. We need to find out about the many funding issues that are involved in care of the elderly, such as resource transfer and the earlier Department of Social Security transfer.My positive feelings about community care underlie all that. Those issues will open up the whole argument about whether bed numbers are the key issue. Appropriate care in the community would take a lot of pressure off beds and would, in fact, be my approach to the recent controversy on acute psychiatric beds. I hope that we can find out a lot of information, some of which—such as the amount that local authorities spend on the elderly—is not in the public domain. As there is a long way to go in co-ordinating social work and health, perhaps we can also make a positive contribution to more constructive work at local level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 284632,
      "EditedText": "That includes a wide range of different issues. Over the coming year, we will be able to see how the new health care co-operatives deal on the ground with local working. From our papers, I notice that there is a need for better working practice in many areas, between the health service and social work. We need to get the message across about joint training and student training, so that people are not as isolated in their professions as they might have been.I know anecdotally that the issue of hospital discharge is of great concern. It is felt that hospitals are discharging people without realising the difficulties that they might face when they get home. There should be a seamless transition from hospital to the next stage of recovery with, for example, joint assessments. Those of us who have been involved as councillors know how difficult it is for people to receive assessments of care in a reasonable period. It is almost a form of rationing. People are not having the relatively inexpensive alterations made to their housing—for example, to baths and showers—that will allow them to stay in their own homes. If such inexpensive alterations are the difference between people staying at home and going into residential care or to acute hospital beds, perhaps we should examine that issue.That impinges on housing, which comes up in a number of the areas that we are examining. We should ensure that as much of our housing as possible is free of barriers to the elderly and people with disabilities. That should include not only people's own homes, but the homes of people they visit. In my experience, assessment and the consideration of ways in which people can make their homes more accessible are relatively inexpensive investments. I would like to ensure that we cover that. I take on board Malcolm's comments on care of the elderly and mental health—those are probably our two key issues. In discussing them, we will come across the other issues, such as co-ordination of services, resource transfer and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 284633,
      "EditedText": "I could not agree more. Being a fresh Parliament, we can make a fresh start and get away from some of the old prejudices. The worst prejudice was—or still is—age discrimination. We should concentrate on trying to help the elderly, their families, and people in Scotland who have someone to look after. That would involve better inspection of nursing homes, private or otherwise, talking to families and paying particular attention to carers. Carers should be asked about their own case histories, although Sutherland covered some of that. Through my work in that area, I have encountered carers as young as six—we must not just make nice noises and pat them on the head. We have to help keep the elderly on their feet and active for longer. However, that means more home care; we must look at the home help service, which has been cut so much that many people are receiving only half an hour twice a week if they are lucky. Half an hour is not enough. I would like to concentrate on the young and chronically sick, and to try to be of some use to those with multiple sclerosis. That is an area in which we could make a difference early on. We want the public and patients to be whistleblowers—to be able to clype on bad services. I will give you a brief anecdote about a young woman in Scotland who was aged 32 and had had multiple sclerosis for about four years, for most of which time she had been in a wheelchair. She had deteriorated quite rapidly and had had to give up a good career in banking. A local charity purchased a super-duper electric wheelchair for her. She was promised help to learn how to operate it, not by the charity but by her local health board. The person who had been sent delayed the appointment twice—when the young woman was up to high doh waiting for someone to come—and finally turned up and said, \"I have only half an hour until the next appointment.\" That was not enough time for the patient to be shown how to work the complicated chair. It is still in her garage, just for lack of that bit of efficient care. People should be given help with employment and encouraged in every possible way, to lift the depression suffered by people with multiple sclerosis and their families. ME is another example—we could go on and on about such issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 284636,
      "EditedText": "If there are key people from whom we definitely want to hear, we could give them prior notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 284640,
      "EditedText": "We should set the ball rolling. That will allow our back-up team to make some initial contacts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1685
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Community Care",
      "HeadingID": 7538,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ID": 7538,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 284641,
      "EditedText": "Do you want names now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.4141641+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 105200,
      "EditedText": "Sam Galbraith has quite openly—I commend his honesty—confirmed the view of the teachers' side: that it went into the negotiations with a gun at its head. That is an astonishing admission from the minister.My question concerns money. The funding of any offer that is agreed between the management and the teachers is where the minister enters the equation. The first part of my question relates to the funding of the offer, as it stood. The second part relates to the one-year pay deal that the SJNC will consider on Friday.The depute convener of the teachers' side said during its evidence that she thought the problem during the negotiations was \"Government spending limits\". That strikes a chord. Reading through all the paperwork involved with the final offer, it became clear that the funding gap at the end of three years, after COSLA had taken into account the money that had been made available through the comprehensive spending review and various efficiency savings, would still be £16 million. In your statement of two weeks ago, you said that an additional £8 million had been offered in the latter stages of the negotiations, to try to bring about a settlement. That still left a substantial funding gap. Where would that money have come from if the teachers had accepted the offer? It seems clear to me that councils would have had difficulty funding the offer as it stood. Accepting that, it becomes clear how difficult it would have been for them to enter further negotiations. Clearly, money was a big stumbling block. I would like you to address those points today, as you did not do so during the debate last Thursday.The second part of my question relates to the negotiations over a one-year pay deal, which will take place in the SJNC on Friday. The teachers have asked for an 8 per cent increase. The indications are that councils can afford an increase in the region of only 2.5 to 3 per cent. We have seen speculation—I grant that it is only speculation—that COSLA will offer about 3 per cent, which is likely to be rejected by teachers. Accepting that scenario, will you make more money available if COSLA asks for it, to ensure that an acceptable deal can be agreed? Specifically, is the £8 million that you mentioned in your statement still available for COSLA to use to fund an acceptable pay settlement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 105271,
      "EditedText": "You have undermined confidence at the outset. What chance does the committee have if all those involved in education do not have confidence in it from day one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 105285,
      "EditedText": "The terms of reference of the committee state explicitly that the members may look at all or any part of the final management offer put forward on 20 August."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 105287,
      "EditedText": "But I thought you just said that they had no remit to look at that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 105299,
      "EditedText": "We must make a clear distinction between the Executive taking over the negotiations and the Executive performing the role that it is there to perform, which is to facilitate agreement where that is necessary. It does not wash when Sam sits there and says that the offer has nothing to do with the Executive. The Executive has spent the past few months advising Scottish teachers—sometimes quite forcibly—to accept the offer, and it is now punishing them for rejecting it. If Mr Galbraith does not think that anything that has been said today by my colleagues and me constitutes the Executive's role in the process, will he outline to the committee what exactly his job is as education minister, in relation to this issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 105309,
      "EditedText": "If the minister would give a straight answer to a straight question, there would be no scope for misleading anyone. As we have time to spare, I shall have another go.You have said that you put more money on the table, when asked before. Why can you not tell us today whether COSLA asked you for more money to fund and accept the pay offer, and to pull the teaching profession back from industrial action? Will you or will you not provide it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 105311,
      "EditedText": "We are led to believe that Jack McConnell will, this afternoon, announce the provision of an extra £80 million for education. Is there scope to resolve this dispute within that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 105314,
      "EditedText": "It is known everywhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 105094,
      "EditedText": "Why not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 105114,
      "EditedText": "Is that yes or no?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 105141,
      "EditedText": "That is outrageous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 105156,
      "EditedText": "I have three quick points to raise. We heard Danny McCafferty say earlier that he thought that the positions of the management and the teachers were not that far apart. Having read the teachers' counter-proposals, I see that there are broad areas of agreement in principle; the stumbling blocks appear to be in the detail. Where might it have been possible for the management side to make further concessions or compromises in the final offer that might have brought about agreement? What was the problem? Why were such compromises not forthcoming?Secondly, the issue concerning us just now is the pay deal for this year. Based on the speculation—and since we have had no clear information from the management, we can only work on press speculation—what do you think the chances are of an agreement being reached this year within the SJNC that would move us back from the abyss that we face?Thirdly, during the debate that was initiated by the SNP last week, members of all parties expressed disappointment that the teaching unions had not been asked to participate in the McCrone committee. Has an approach to the unions been made since then? If not, what do you think that means for the work of that committee and for the outcome of its deliberations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 6 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2138,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 105074,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at  09:32"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keir Bloomer (Executive Director, Clackmannanshire Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 105079,
      "EditedText": "I am Keir Bloomer, director of education at Clackmannanshire Council and one of the advisers to the management side."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 105081,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a brief, general statement on behalf of the management side. Keir will handle specifics about the detail of the package if anyone wishes us to elaborate on that. We accept that the offer that we put to the teachers' side has been overwhelmingly rejected. We regret that and are disappointed by it; it will require greater analysis. The rejection was not just of a particular package. It shows that there is a deep-rooted, pent-up resentment in the Scottish education system that has been brewing for about 20 years. We must address that. Unfortunately, the debate took on an adversarial tone of combat, rather than one of constructive discussion. That did not help to clarify the issues in any way, which is regrettable. It is equally regrettable that that crisis occurred against a backdrop of the progress of Scottish education, where there is so much potential and opportunity and so many positive developments. The teachers expressed a clear opinion, but they have also been contacting COSLA directly, and they are telling us that they are underpaid, overworked and under constant stress. They suffer ill health because of their work and there are increasing social and safety problems in schools. We acknowledge that that is not a healthy state for Scottish education, albeit that the quality of teaching and of standards is continually rising. We cannot ignore the teachers' description of the environment in which they and their young people are working. That is not a healthy environment for young people and we must address that. COSLA recognises that there are genuine anxieties, insecurities, concerns and frustrations. We set out to change that. Our aim was to provide a quality education service, a quality learning environment, and a motivated quality teaching force. Those were our objectives—nothing else. We recognise that those objectives will not be, and cannot ever be, attained unless we have the good will of the teaching force. Any speculation that COSLA would adopt an anti-teacher, union-bashing attitude is false. That would not be in our interests, or in the interests of the profession. Such an attitude would destroy our aims, which we are not in the business of doing. That is the context in which COSLA sought, in good faith through the millennium negotiations, to put forward a package that we thought was designed to recruit, reward and retain good classroom teachers. We recognised the need to change management structures, particularly in secondary schools. Throughout the process, we consulted all the political parties in COSLA. On 26 March, on 30 July and on 11 August they all endorsed the package that we put forward. We have consulted the broad spectrum of opinion in COSLA and we have not found any disagreement with our offer in that forum.The management proposals were put forward positively. Unfortunately, they have been interpreted as the exact opposite of what we intended to achieve. That says that there is something wrong with the mechanisms that we use. There are those who say that the offer itself is flawed, but it was constructed after 12 months of debate, dialogue and discussion. The package that was put forward had both management and union input—into the millennium review and into the final package.There were meetings at the table, meetings around the table and meetings behind the chair with anybody and everybody in education who was interested in taking the thing forward. Despite that, the result has been the overwhelming rejection of the outcome of those discussions. That does not inspire confidence in the mechanism that was used to achieve those ends.We are now having to go back to the drawing board. It is not an understatement to say that Scottish education has been brought to the edge of an abyss, rather than to the edge of a bright new dawning, which was the intention of the millennium review. Society owes it to the young people whose future is in our hands to break through that impasse, to come to a reasonable solution, and to move forward to create the kind of education system in which we all have a vested interest. It is wholly inappropriate to look backwards, apportioning blame, threatening industrial action and getting involved in petty squabbling and feuding. We do not need posturing, point-scoring or political opportunism: that would be a disaster for Scottish education at this point. Scottish society must come together as one across all spectrums of opinion to find a solution, rather than scoring points against any section of society. That is not what our young people need as we approach the millennium.COSLA remains firm and united in its views. We want to have an education system that reflects the needs of society, and we are prepared to work to achieve that. We do not believe that the SJNC has delivered. It has not delivered for teachers, it has not delivered for young people and, if these are the results that we get out of it, it is certainly not the way forward. In COSLA, we are clear about our desire to retain a national pay structure. We do not want local bargaining; we want a national structure, and we will put forward a submission to the inquiry stating that. We also want to work in partnership with teachers, with parents and with the Parliament to take education forward. We believe that education should remain within the sphere of responsibility of local authorities and that there should be no diminution of the role of local authorities.I hope that, through the committee of inquiry, all those with an interest in education will be able to make their case for a practical, achievable, affordable and, above all else, sustainable way forward. There can be no more Houghtons, no more Cleggs and no more Mains. This time, we must have a structure that can sustain itself into the millennium. We can achieve that by talking to one another and by healing the damage and the breaches that have been created because of the current situation. We must go forward in the spirit of partnership rather than conflict, and we all have a responsibility to the young people of Scotland to go down that road."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 105083,
      "EditedText": "As Danny McCafferty will be aware, I led a local authority and was therefore part of the COSLA exercise. Like many other council leaders, I am disappointed that we have been part of a sleepwalk-into-disaster scenario. As someone who has been involved from time to time in pendulum negotiations, I am astonished that we can get to a situation in which negotiations are at an advanced stage, yet there was an overwhelming ballot by teachers against the proposals. I would like to explore why we have come to a situation in which there has been a long, and apparently productive and meaningful, negotiation, but the result is an overwhelming vote against. I know that COSLA does not want us to reflect on what went on before, but it is inevitable that we will have to consider it. How did we get to the stage where there was an apparent move towards agreement before the teachers overwhelmingly knocked it back?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105086",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 105086,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to add anything, Councillor McCafferty?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105087",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 105087,
      "EditedText": "Keir has a point. However, considering the situation from June objectively—I was not involved in the 12 months before that—and reading the management side offer on 26 March, the teachers' counter-proposals and the management's response to those proposals, I see that there were certainly differences on monetary funding and class sizes, but there were no major disagreements in principle. Reading those documents, I would not say that there is a massive chasm between the two perceptions. There were details—how much money, how fast and how soon—that needed to be clarified. When I became involved in June, there was a request for a meeting to continue to seek to clarify issues. When someone requests a meeting to clarify matters, that shows that the door is still open and that we are negotiating.The other unions, the Scottish Secondary Teachers Association and the National Association of Schoolmasters and Union of Women Teachers, rejected the offer of 26 March out of hand, on a 98 per cent ballot. The fact that the EIS did not do so shows that it did not want to reject the offer at that time—there was something there that offered the possibility of further negotiation and movement. We tried to accommodate the issues that were brought to our attention. At the end of the day, I understood that we were on the verge of a deal. That was my intent and impression. To be fair to the EIS, no one ever used the words, \"You have a deal\"—I want to be absolutely frank about that. There are other ways of saying things, and I was sure that we were very close. If I had thought for a minute that it would come to this, I would have wanted to negotiate differently."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 105088,
      "EditedText": "As a former educationist, I am not in the least surprised that secondary staff in particular see the eradication of the principal teacher post as a major issue. Even Danny referred to the pressures of 20 years of innovation overload, stress, uncertainty and curriculum change. I am not surprised that there has been a wholesale reaction to what is perceived as the eradication of the level of principal teacher. We are talking about a particular time scale—there were local government and Scottish Parliament elections. I think—and I dare say that other COSLA leaders would agree—that we were not well informed about the financial details of the scheme. Very late in the day, we were given some figures that took us aback, because most of us had been involved in settling our financial position for the next year.Would you like to comment a wee bit more on the financial scenario?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105089",
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      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 105089,
      "EditedText": "Discussions on the financial side of things took place, because the package on offer would have been very expensive. The Scottish Executive required a report on that. The package that was put forward was complex, and I could not do it justice in a quick summary. The explanation required handouts, overheads and videos. A meeting took place after the Scottish Parliament was formed and COSLA had a new leadership. A full explanation was given at that stage and it lasted for the best part of an hour and a half. I am sorry, but I cannot do that in five minutes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 105090,
      "EditedText": "I just want to establish whether any promises were made to fill the financial gap."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 105093,
      "EditedText": "No one can ever impose unworkable changes on any profession—doing so would be futile because the changes would not be implemented. I was not suggesting that. I was saying that the SJNC—which was supposed to be delivering change in Scottish education on pay and conditions of service—failed. The SJNC failed; we had Houghton, which failed; we had Clegg, which failed; we had Main, which failed; and we had higher still—it failed again this time. People cannot just say that it is the offers that are always wrong."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105096",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Bloomer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 105096,
      "EditedText": "I would like to clarify one or two points. The SJNC was set up—under a different name—by the Remuneration of Teachers (Scotland) Act 1967. It changed its name in 1982, but kept essentially the same negotiating machinery. In that period of more than 30 years, it has never—not on one single occasion—succeeded in negotiating a pay increase that was in line with the national average increase in earnings. The only times when teachers have benefited relative to the rest of the community have been on the three occasions when the negotiating machinery did not function and independent committees of inquiry were set up—under Houghton, Clegg and Main.Furthermore, the SJNC has not succeeded in protecting conditions of service. The period during which the current scheme of conditions of service has been in operation is also the period in which teachers' complaints about growing and excessive work load have been expressed most vociferously. Neither has it succeeded in modernising conditions of service. We are going through a period of rapid educational change, and we require flexible conditions of service allowing authorities to deliver the education service that the community expects; yet, in the past 10 years, the SJNC has not made a single important change to conditions of service.Teaching—certainly in the secondary sector—suffers from an over-dependence on promotion as a way forward. Criticisms have rightly been levelled at the existing structure because of its tendency to remove good teachers from the classroom. A more important criticism is the fact that, by placing the classroom teacher—who is, after all, the most important person in the entire structure—at the bottom of a hierarchy of seven in secondary schools, or of five in larger primary schools, we are demeaning the business of teaching.There is no easy way out of an over-dependence on promotion, but the management side believes that the professional leadership grade, which was a reward for good teaching and provided an incentive for people to remain in the classroom, represents an important step forward. The key thing about that grade, which was insufficiently publicised during the ballot and was not properly understood, is that there is no fixed limit on the number of professional leaders. Teachers who met the quality standards would become professional leaders and their numbers were likely to increase over time.At the moment, there are just under 17,500 primary classes in Scotland. Of those, 12,800 are single stage, and under the proposals their size would come down from 33 to 30 pupils. That means that three quarters of primary classes in Scotland would be living with a lower class limit, not a higher one. Furthermore, 40 per cent of composite classes are in small schools and would have been unaffected by the change—their class limit would have remained at 25.Our work with a number of authorities demonstrates that it is the existence of the separate composite class limit itself that has caused the growth in composite classes in the past 20 years. Two thirds of composite classes would, over a seven-year period, have turned into single-stage classes. Some 37,000 children in Scotland who are currently being taught in composite classes need not be taught in them. The number of composite classes that might increase in size comes down to a mere 850 or so out of the 17,500 classes. Authorities gave an undertaking that they would attempt, as far as possible, to ensure that those composite classes were smaller than other classes in the school. Certainly, the authorities were in a position, given the small number of classes involved, to concentrate the resources of classroom assistants and visiting specialists so as to give additional support to those composite classes. Far from being educationally deleterious, the measures would significantly have improved the quality of education within primary schools."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105103",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 105103,
      "EditedText": "The teachers' side has still formally to reject the management offer, which they will do on Friday. The teachers' side will then formally put forward its case for the 8 per cent increase. COSLA's opening gambit will be to listen."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105107",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 105107,
      "EditedText": "I do not mind if Mike has one short point to make."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 105116,
      "EditedText": "You make an excellent case for change. If you had been on my side and had presented that case to the teachers, you might have sold it to them—you have certainly convinced me that we are too line managed and that the bureaucracy within education needs to be changed.The committee of inquiry has a wide-ranging remit. It can consider not just the financial impact on Scottish education, but best practice throughout Europe. It can take on board academic opinion on whether things are workable. The inquiry will give us the ability to analyse some of the issues that have arisen. I look forward to the inquiry and to the opportunity to argue educationally as well as financially."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 105118,
      "EditedText": "Do you have a supplementary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 105119,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Do you accept that a teacher in a high school received a piece of paper one day that asked him to tick a box to approve that culture change, although he did not know how that change would affect him? He did not know how many promoted posts there would be in the school at which he worked and he did not know whether the 50 extra hours would be worked during the Easter holidays, the summer holidays or at nights. So many things were uncertain and unfamiliar—they had not been properly sold to the teachers—that there was no way in the world that anybody with any understanding of how teachers would receive that document could have expected them to vote for the changes. The ballot was terribly badly managed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105121",
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      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 105121,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that it might have been a good idea to include two or three exemplars?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C105132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 105132,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 105133,
      "EditedText": "What do the SJNC and COSLA do now to stop things getting worse?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 105136,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, Nicola. I was going to bring you in, but Mike jumped in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C105142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 105142,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order, convener. I specifically asked to come to this meeting, as any MSP is allowed to. The usual procedure, as you mentioned at the beginning of the meeting, is that everybody can ask a question, not that some people can ask two or three. That is totally unfair. If we are not in fact going to address the issue properly with the rest of this morning's presentations, I will seriously consider taking the matter forward to another place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 105147,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the witnesses to the meeting. They will have seen the procedure. We will give Mr MacIver, who will lead, some time to make a presentation. I ask him to keep that as brief as possible, and then I will open the discussion to members to ask questions. We have 45 minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105149",
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      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 105149,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for keeping that contribution brief. Do members have any questions?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 105151,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean the Education, Culture and Sport Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 105153,
      "EditedText": "It is our view that we must find a way out of the impasse that we are in. I refer you to Danny McCafferty's earlier remarks. If there is a general view that the committee should play a role, it is in the interests of everyone to move forward on the basis of consensus. Clearly, we would rather reach an agreement. Moving forward on the basis of consent will be a difficult task for all parties involved—that is worth reflecting on. I know that Ronnie Smith will want in on this point, but it is our view that it is still possible to reach agreement within the framework of the SJNC."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105154",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ronnie Smith (SJNC): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 105154,
      "EditedText": "I stress our commitment to the SJNC, not just to its shell, but to making it work. We believe that matters should be resolved within the SJNC. The SJNC is a tripartite body, with representatives of teachers, of local authority employers and of the minister. It is my understanding that the role of members of the Scottish Parliament is to try to guide the actions of ministers and to hold ministers to account for them. To the extent that the Executive is one of the three parties in the SJNC, there is, therefore, a role for members of the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105155",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms May Ferries (Vice-Convener, SJNC): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 105155,
      "EditedText": "As the trade union side, we anticipate in negotiations that we will push the management side as far as it is prepared to go and put the offer that emerges to our members. A rejection of an offer would usually result in further negotiations within the negotiating body. That is why we are so annoyed that the negotiating body is being abolished at this stage in the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105163",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 105163,
      "EditedText": "I want to come back to that point. There are ways of flattening out the management structure in a secondary school and combining professional drive with administrative expertise, but I do not think that the management side's offer does that. I am speaking as someone who has expertise and has worked in the sector.I am not happy about the negotiating rights of 60,000 teachers being given away. Irrespective of what happens in the review, I will argue for the retention of collective bargaining. However, a former senior member of the EIS, who is now on the management side, has said that the SJNC has failed consistently. Would Ronnie Smith like to comment on that?I agree with Malcolm MacIver that it would have been much better if this process had been conducted on the basis of an agreed position—I hesitate to use the word concordat—rather than through a spate of management offers. That would have allowed management to consult staff in schools in a much more coherent and consensual way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105169",
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      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferries: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 105169,
      "EditedText": "At the beginning of the millennium discussions, many things were talked about before the negotiation started, but at no point was the composite class-size maximum mentioned. That emerged once the formal negotiations began. Government spending limits have hampered the progress of the SJNC. When the management side needed its sums to work, it had to find extra money from somewhere. This morning Keir gave the committee a detailed explanation of what could happen to composite classes. As a primary teacher, I do not have access to the figures that Keir used in his study. However, from my experience of 25 years of primary teaching I do not recognise the conclusions that he drew from his analysis. That view was shared by 98 per cent of my colleagues who voted in the ballot. At a time when the sizes of one set of classes are being cut—a move that is very welcome, although long overdue—an increase in another set of classes is completely unacceptable. That was described in negotiations as a major stumbling block, which would affect the way in which teachers would vote. Similar problems arose on many occasions during the discussions, but suddenly at the end an assumption was made that those major stumbling blocks had disappeared. The management side made the wrong assumption.On another primary school issue, the professional leader post was portrayed as a benefit to primary teachers and a step towards equality of opportunity to promoted posts. Again, that is a welcome move, but—there is always a but—Keir referred to unlimited access to such posts, over time. Members of the committee have already expressed some concerns about the budgeting associated with the initial deal; to increase the amount of professional leader posts would take a further major injection of funds. Teachers were quite aware that such a major investment was not to be relied on—it was a hope, but it was certainly not a concrete commitment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 105171,
      "EditedText": "The management side knew that we set great store in the SJNC. It felt that we would agree to the proposal because—as had been made clear in many meetings—if we did not agree they would go to the minister to say that the SJNC had failed and should be abandoned. To be honest, I feel that an element in the management side thought that it would win either way, which made negotiations difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 105185,
      "EditedText": "It was also made clear to us that that was the overwhelming political view of everybody in COSLA—that we were dealing with a collective view from across the councils: either we were on board or it was all gone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Children and Education (Mr Sam Galbraith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 105194,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, Mary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 105197,
      "EditedText": "Okay. If you are quite happy, we will begin to ask questions. Thank you. If members of the committee have any questions to ask the minister, they should indicate that through the convener. In order to allow as many people as possible to speak, I ask members to keep their questions succinct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 105210,
      "EditedText": "We will see if we can bring out the information that you want in another way, Nicola. If not, I will come back to you, but there are a number of others who want to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 105211,
      "EditedText": "Facts are chiels that winna ding. One issue that Nicola made great play of last week—perhaps rightly—was that of composite classes and class sizes. Unfortunately, we did not have a chance to cross-question the teachers' side of the SJNC, but we did get a fairly detailed breakdown of facts from the employers' side in which the effects of class sizes were downplayed. I would like to hear your thoughts, minister, on the detail of how this will affect children. How many classes do you see increasing their size? How many will decrease their size? What will the effect be? We must get to the nitty-gritty of this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 105212,
      "EditedText": "I cannot give you that answer and I do not see the point of going over that deal, which is between COSLA and the unions. I am worried that class sizes will not be determined by us. My understanding is that the composite class deal went only for two-stage class deals not three-stage class deals and that it was linked to a commitment to reduce all class sizes from P4 to S2 to 30 or fewer pupils. This is not our deal. We were not part of it and I am not here to justify it or reject it. You must deal with the people who are involved in that negotiation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 105215,
      "EditedText": "You hinted at an answer when you mentioned the drop to 30, but, as I recall, the employers' side said that only 600 classes would get bigger. Can you confirm that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 105217,
      "EditedText": "It would appear from your comments so far, Mr Galbraith, that you feel that the deal is being done between only COSLA and the teachers. You spoke of COSLA's offer and the teachers' rejection of it. That leads me to wonder whether there is any point in asking you about facets of the deal, so let me move on to ask you about your decision to wind up the SJNC. Why did you feel it necessary to rush to that decision, when the mechanisms of the SJNC have not yet been exhausted? In particular, you seem willing to dismiss the mechanism for arbitration without even attempting to use it. Why not exhaust the SJNC's procedures, and then make the decision to wind it up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 105218,
      "EditedText": "The advice that I have had about arbitration is that if both sides want it, they can ask the First Minister for arbitration. He will then appoint an arbitrator, who will reach a decision that the First Minister will accept or reject. However, we need both sides to come and ask for that—we cannot impose it on the SJNC."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 105219,
      "EditedText": "I think that you are being especially modest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 105220,
      "EditedText": "I am a modest man."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 105224,
      "EditedText": "If both sides wish to come to me and ask for arbitration, we will be more than willing to set that in motion for the current year—but they have to come to us first."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105230",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 105230,
      "EditedText": "Oh yes, absolutely!"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 105237,
      "EditedText": "Where is the question, Ian?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 105239,
      "EditedText": "That sums up my position, but I will not say that I support national collective bargaining. This is a genuine attempt by the Executive to leave what has happened in the past and to avoid it happening again.I am looking for a system that rewards teachers' commitment and professionalism. The system that is in place at the moment does not do that. I want the new system to recognise their value and their position, and to reward them without confrontation and without two sides lining up against one another. I have no preconceived notion of what that system might be. I do, however, want a system that looks broadly at all the issues that have been raised, including the management structure.We face a difficult task. The problem in the past has been that we have had confrontational negotiations in which we bite off too much and get nowhere. We need to step back, to get an independent view of the position and what the structure should be and to take things forward from there. It is a genuine attempt to prevent confrontation, to enhance teachers' professional status and to reward their commitment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 105243,
      "EditedText": "I will bring you in if you want to ask that question, but you must go through the chair, Mike.I wanted to bring you back to the SJNC, minister, although I am aware that you have said that you do not want to look back. You have said that you think that the role of the members of the Executive who are on the SJNC is to advise and assist. Although I might have misinterpreted the discussion, there was, I think, some criticism of that position from the teachers' side this morning. The word semi-detached was used in relation to your position within the SJNC. Do you accept that description? If not, do you think that, by being more involved in the negotiations, the Executive could have made the SJNC more productive in coming up with an acceptable settlement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 105247,
      "EditedText": "Could the unions contribute to the committee in a productive way, by having membership?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 105250,
      "EditedText": "Mike, you know that, unlike yourself, I do not indulge in gesture politics. I do the right thing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 105252,
      "EditedText": "Peter Peacock and I are former councillors, and many of us—and many SNP members—believe in the notion that the councils deliver education. That is why I support you, Sam, in what you say about the Executive being semi-detached, if you like, and having observer-only status on the SJNC. However, given the importance of councils, agreement on which, I am sure, crosses all party boundaries, can you reassure me that the inquiry will go into the detail of education delivery by particular councils? That would be important in finding a way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 105255,
      "EditedText": "No. The committee will not be involved with an individual council, under any circumstance. The committee will adopt a broad- based approach and make generalised proposals. If there is a perceived problem with an authority on, say, education provision, the proposal is that we will inspect the education functions of local authorities—the bill's powers will provide for that. The committee will not pick out an individual authority in order to examine it and to establish whether it is acting in a fair and proper manner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 105256,
      "EditedText": "I find it a little surprising that you say that, as delivery of education, in the broadest sense, varies within Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 105259,
      "EditedText": "I see. I understand what you mean now. The committee of inquiry will look at the position across Scotland, using a broad-brush approach to take account of local variation, although I hope that it will not be so prescriptive on such issues as to examine each council separately. Of course, when it examines any proposal, it will have to consider how it will affect different parts of Scotland. We all know that local authorities provide education because circumstances vary in different areas. We will take that factor into account. I now understand your question, Jamie. I thought that you were asking me something else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 105261,
      "EditedText": "Governments do not set up inquiries to ignore their findings, but Governments never give an absolute commitment to be bound by everything that an inquiry suggests. That would be ridiculous. I thought that Hugh Henry was asking me whether I was ruling out collective bargaining, the answer to which was that I did not rule out collective bargaining. I did not commit myself to it and I did not rule it out. We considered the matter of teachers' representation. We did not want union representatives on the committee, because we did not want a person on the committee as a representative. No one is there representing a body. People are on the committee in their individual right, and that is the way that we want it. We realised that the committee had to include someone from the profession. We thought that the best way to deal with that would be to have a head teacher. Once we had one head teacher, we had to have one from a primary and one from a secondary. We thought that that solved the conundrum, to have someone from the teaching profession who has been at the chalkface. That was a good compromise, and a fair resolution of the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 105267,
      "EditedText": "I thought that that was the right decision and I always take what I think is the right decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 105277,
      "EditedText": "I accept the need for the McCrone report, and as you know, I said the other day that I did not think that it was absolutely necessary to have a practising teacher on the committee, for the reasons that you mentioned. However, I seek reassurance that the committee will have all the resources that it needs. I worry that the starting point will be the document that has been overwhelmingly rejected. There are flaws in it that are so severe that using it as a starting point would be dangerous and would lead to a lack of confidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 105280,
      "EditedText": "The committee did not play any part in the offer. It has asked to look at the review because the teachers agreed to the principles of it as a way forward.We have put aside a considerable sum for the committee. It is free to commission its own research. Advisers are available if the committee wants advice: it does not have to ask for advice, and it can ignore any that is given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 105281,
      "EditedText": "But the committee had better take it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 105282,
      "EditedText": "No. The committee can commission whomever it wishes. We have made more than adequate funds available, so that the committee can commission its own research and have independent advice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 105290,
      "EditedText": "They have no remit with regard to sorting out this year's deal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 105295,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. We have no desire to take this on under any circumstances, although when you see the flak that you get when you are not involved but get blamed for it, you might wonder about that. I am sorry to have to tell Brian Monteith that the position is that we have no intention whatever of taking over control of education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2205,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 105297,
      "EditedText": "You should not live in a world of conspiracies, Mike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 105300,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry that you are lapsing into extravagant and partisan language yet again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 105305,
      "EditedText": "Negotiations on teachers' terms and conditions are a matter for discussion between the employers and the unions. We play an advisory, observational role, and when we are asked to do so, we try to facilitate a deal. That is our correct and proper role. The role of the education minister is to ensure the provision of education of the highest possible standard for all our children. The Improvement in Scottish Education Bill will formally, and for the first time, place a duty on me to ensure that there is a constant improvement in Scottish education, to return it to its highest standards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 105306,
      "EditedText": "You said that your role was to facilitate the completion of the deal when you were asked to do so. You were asked for the money and you did not come up with enough. Do you not think that that was a negation of responsibility?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 105308,
      "EditedText": "But not enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 105310,
      "EditedText": "I do not understand why Nicola Sturgeon keeps going on about this. I have said repeatedly that we are always willing to help. We do not want there to be industrial action; we want a solution. We have not been asked to do anything at the moment. I do not deal in hypothetical situations, and we do not lay out the positions for negotiations before they arise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105312",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
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      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 105312,
      "EditedText": "I cannot comment until Jack announces that this afternoon."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 105316,
      "EditedText": "Nicola has asked about this five or six times. She knows that I am prepared to support positions on a non-partisan basis. The EIS position is quite clear: this was not a matter of resources—the offer was deeply flawed and incoherent, as Malcolm MacIver said. The real issues were working hours, the taking away of time from teaching and learning, the diminishing of professional autonomy over time, composite classes, and the status of the professional leadership. The concern is not simply over resources. Teachers ought to be properly rewarded; I hope that the review process will recognise that. However, it would be much more significant if the review process were to allow schools to have proper management structures and proper teaching and learning structures. That would give them some stability and a way in which to deal with the huge stresses that have been placed on the teaching profession over 18 years of disregard. That is much more important. We should not always focus simply on resources.If Nicola and her colleagues are saying that another 8 per cent on the table would have meant teachers selling out all their professional concerns, that makes me very concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1775,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 105320,
      "EditedText": "The EIS clearly stated that there were four reasons for rejection. Three of those reasons concerned resources: extra working hours; larger sizes for composite classes; and pay. If three out of the four conditions of rejection concerned pay and resources, resources will be central in reaching a resolution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 105321,
      "EditedText": "I think that it was Keir Bloomer who said that one cannot impose a deal on 60,000 teachers. The EIS said the same thing. Do you now say it, too?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 105322,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I have heard some wild stories about plots and conspiracy theories. It is true that there is no way of imposing such things; they must be arranged by co-operation and agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105324",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 105324,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:57."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105077",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor Danny McCafferty (Education Spokesperson, COSLA): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 105077,
      "EditedText": "I think that it will be more appropriate for the members of the panel to introduce themselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105080",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jim Gibson (Personnel Officer, COSLA): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 105080,
      "EditedText": "I am Jim Gibson, and I am a personnel officer with COSLA."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105082",
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      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 105082,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. I remind members to ask their questions through the chair. I shall allow each member to ask a question followed by a supplementary. At the end, I shall go back to pick up any other questions."
    },
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    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 105084,
      "EditedText": "Keir Bloomer can answer that point. I might be able to supplement his answer, as I came into the negotiations in June, but Keir has a longer memory than that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Bloomer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 105085,
      "EditedText": "We got to this situation by a lengthy process. The management side put an offer to the teachers' side on 26 March, which it indicated would be its final offer. However, in response to an approach from the Educational Institute of Scotland—but not the whole of the teachers' side—further discussions took place between the end of March and the end of June.At a meeting at the end of June, in which various modifications to the March offer were discussed, the management side representatives were under the impression that teachers' side representatives were going away to recommend acceptance to the constituent organisations. The teachers' side has subsequently denied that. One can say only that a serious misunderstanding took place at the end of June.When we met again after the summer break, it was the understanding of the management side that we were moving towards agreement. In the event that proved not to be the case. As the two sides were clearly operating on different assumptions, little was done to prepare the teaching force for the changes contained in the offer."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C105095",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 105095,
      "EditedText": "There must be something wrong with the machinery. The machinery is supposed to have representatives from the Scottish Executive, the union side and the management side sitting down and working out a consensus, before going out and arguing jointly for that consensus. We genuinely thought that we had achieved that consensus. For example, we constantly accepted compromises on working time. When an additional 70 hours a year was rejected, it was brought down to 60 hours and then to 50 hours. Four times COSLA negotiated downwards; the union side never once met us in a compromise. However, when we reached 50, it stopped, and if someone stops, we have to interpret the passivity of that as meaning that the figure is acceptable.We then went on to discuss class sizes. COSLA's position is that we want to abolish composite classes. The facts that we tried to publish would demonstrate that under COSLA proposals, out of a total of 17,000 classes in Scotland, the number of composite classes would be reduced to 900. We did not think that, over a three-year period, eradicating the other 900 was an insurmountable problem. We believe that our proposals can be substantiated and that our figures can be proved. We have included in the proposals a mechanism for a review in 2003 so that, if we are wrong, people will be able to see that we are wrong, and we will be able to rectify any mistakes, although we are confident that that will not happen.However, although we put forward that case, we were told the exact opposite—that class sizes would go through the roof. How can there possibly be two sides in one room with such different perceptions of the same issue? That is beyond me, and we have tried to make that clear.On the subject of the leadership scale and the principal teachers' scale, it was interesting to note that both the management and union sides recommended that there should be three tiers—a main scale, a professional leadership scale and a management scale. There is not a chasm between us. We have to work out how we can manage the change. COSLA's view was that we would do that over a five-year period, but somehow it has got into the public domain that we want to do it tomorrow.There are differences of emphasis. Perhaps Keir would like to comment on that."
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
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      "EditedText": "Nicola, do you have a supplementary?"
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      "EditedText": "I call Ian Jenkins."
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      "ID": 2135,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 105105,
      "EditedText": "I have a follow-on point."
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    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105109",
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      "EditedText": "Quickly then, Mike."
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  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105110",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 105110,
      "EditedText": "Councillor McCafferty, I am interested in your response. You have not denied the story in The Scotsman, which says:\"West Dunbartonshire Council, of which COSLA's education convener and chief negotiator, Danny McCafferty, is a member, has earmarked only 2.6 per cent for a rise.\"To ask the question another way, if you are offering more than 2.6 per cent—you meaning West Dunbartonshire—will you have to go to the Executive to ask for more money, or are you intending to offer that while having something secret that we do not know about?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C105111",
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      "ID": 527
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      "ID": 118
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 105111,
      "EditedText": "As far as my local authority is concerned—and I am not here representing it, so the question is a bit unfair—I do not conduct the discussions. We have a convener of finance who deals with personnel and finance issues. If we have a budget figure of 2.6 per cent and the settlement is higher than that, West Dunbartonshire Council, like every other local authority, will have to consider how to meet that shortfall."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105115",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 105115,
      "EditedText": "A couple of things in the package would worry me if they are retained, as you believe should happen. I do not think that it was reasonable to attempt to make such a culture change as a by-blow of an annual pay review. How can we go from line management to collegiate work in a short time when the number of people is being cut?You say that you will retain excellent teachers in the classroom. Which people who are currently out of the classroom will be involved in the structure that you propose? I was a principal teacher, but was not out of the classroom very much—I taught almost as many periods as anybody else did, but had all the management to do as well. This offer was going to cut the number of managers in schools. The management structure—the bureaucracy, the way in which examinations are run and so on—is based on line management. Bureaucracy is going up and up. It is cuckoo to cut the number of managers and pretend that those people would be retained in the classroom."
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  {
    "ID": "C105120",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
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      "EditedText": "You make a valid point. We did not anticipate that we would arrive in this situation, which is an indication that we genuinely believed that we would have a negotiated settlement and that there would be consensus. You are right in saying that the document had to be considered in its entirety without detailed knowledge of the discussions that had taken place. The ballot was like a referendum, except for the fact that a referendum asks one question, not 20. If 20 questions were asked, 20 different opinions would be voiced, somebody along the line would be offended and a rejection would be more likely. This ballot was more fundamental than that, and I would not insult teachers by pretending otherwise. It was, for particular reasons, a fundamental, emphatic no vote. Nevertheless, the document outlined protections—local consultative mechanisms in each school that would work out the 50 hours. There were also consultative mechanisms at the local authority level, and there was an appeal mechanism at the SJNC level. At three different stages, there was protection relating to how things would pan out. The matter was not as simple and straightforward as people are suggesting. The document may be over-complex, and in hindsight we could all say that things could have been better presented. I wish that the presentation had been better—no one welcomes a 98 per cent rejection and presentation is important in that respect. However, mechanisms were there to safeguard teachers' rights."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105123",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "We have only five minutes left, so members should keep their questions brief."
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  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105124",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
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      "EditedText": "Danny, you said in your opening statement that teachers are overworked, undervalued and underpaid. I think that all committee members agree with that and appreciate the stress that teachers are under in the classroom. You were close to a settlement, but suddenly the process broke down. Do you think that—and this distinction might be too simple—the process ultimately broke down over resources or over conditions?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105129",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
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      "EditedText": "I was referring to the minister's actions."
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 105143,
      "EditedText": "I have to say that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 105144,
      "EditedText": "May I make a point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 105145,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, Mike, but I want to make some comments.We are aware that we are constrained by time, that this is an involved issue and that members have a number of supplementary questions that they would like to ask. I will try to bring members into the discussion as much as possible, particularly when they have a supplementary question on the issue that is being discussed. However, I ask members to be disciplined in terms of coming in again and again. I will try to get round all members during the meeting. It is important that members are allowed to ask supplementary questions on an issue when it has been raised. I will not take any more questions on that point, as I am anxious to move on and to get to meat of the issue: the discussion with the teachers' side of the SJNC panel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 105150,
      "EditedText": "Given the considerable interest in and speculation on this matter that there has been during the past few weeks, does the trade union side in the negotiations believe that this committee should become involved in the negotiations?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 105152,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105157",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 105157,
      "EditedText": "I will answer the last question first. I have just checked with Ronnie Smith and it seems that no approach has been made to the unions about teacher representation on the McCrone committee.Ken Wimbor can say something about the gap that exists between our counter-proposals, of which we are happy to give a copy to the committee, and what was tabled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105159",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 105159,
      "EditedText": "That is a significant fact. We were dealing with offers that we did not own. It was telling when the previous convener on the management side said that he recognised that the process was difficult for us because of how we introduced change. They were relaxed because they would either get change by agreement with us or by having the Executive abolish the SJNC. That attitude made it difficult to create a climate of ownership and trust.On Nicola's question about pay, like Danny McCafferty, I am not willing to negotiate in public. At this stage, the management has a responsibility to try to resolve this year's pay round. We have lodged a claim of eight per cent because we believe that that will address the problems of recruitment, retention and the gap that exists between the pay of new teachers and that of other graduates. We know something of the figures; the management must have some knowledge of the situation in schools. The onus is on management to come to us on Friday with a responsible offer, but I am not willing to discuss figures publicly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 105162,
      "EditedText": "We were prepared to examine the current structure in schools. It is easy to present us as reactionary and resistant to change, but there is no evidence for that. In secondary schools in particular, there is arguably a plethora of posts. We were prepared to address that problem.Disagreement centred on the issue of the curriculum manager or principal teacher. We believe that someone has to be responsible for driving the curriculum in secondary schools. That is the message that the Executive's key adviser, HMI, is putting across. HMI is saying that principal teachers will be the people most responsible over the next four or five years for bedding in higher still, which has just been introduced in secondary schools. However, when we challenged the management side to present us with a vision of how a secondary school should be managed—I remember asking Keir Bloomer to do that—it failed to respond. Appendix 3, I believe, of the final offer was Mr Bloomer's attempt to provide a rationale, but in most secondary schools it created more confusion than light.We cannot have, on the one hand, HMI telling senior staff in local authorities, deputy heads and head teachers that principal teachers are the key to driving through higher still and, on the other, a proposal from COSLA to start dismantling the post from August 2000. Those two things do not gel. We were, however, prepared to consider some flexibility. The report of task group 4 makes it clear that we were prepared to engage with management, but that it was determined to retain ownership for itself. The eventual offer was management's final offer, not an agreed final offer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 105164,
      "EditedText": "The antipathy to the SJNC that is felt in some quarters escapes now and then into the public domain. We heard some of that this morning, when I learned from Danny McCafferty—to my total astonishment—that the SJNC had failed on higher still. That has nothing whatever to do with the SJNC, which deals with pay and terms and conditions of employment. That may give you a wee feel for some of the antipathy that exists.The presentation this morning referred to the SJNC failing to produce settlements that matched average earnings. If the management side took the view that that was a desirable outcome, it was open to it to come to the SJNC with such a proposition, which would have received more than passing consideration from the teachers' side.Lest it be forgotten, the SJNC gave not just teachers, but Scottish children class-size limits in the mid-1970s. Class sizes south of the border range around 40 or 50 because there is no upper limit in England and Wales. Generations of Scottish children have a lot for which to thank the SJNC. It was also able to introduce arrangements for absence cover, to ensure that when a teacher is absent from school for whatever reason, the youngsters are taught by teachers. More than a few achievements can be laid at the SJNC's door.We recognise that the SJNC has not worked as satisfactorily as it could; that is why we sat down with COSLA and launched the millennium inquiry. That was our initiative. Part of that inquiry's duty was to examine ways in which the SJNC could be made to work better. We were led to believe that one of the local authorities' concerns was the purported inflexibility; they wanted more scope at local level. In good faith, we sat down and agreed with COSLA mechanisms whereby there could be local variations, provided that a proper agreement was reached locally. Sad to say, that agreement—reached in the millennium inquiry—did not survive the first meeting of the SJNC when it came to try to deliver that outcome.Much can be said in favour of the SJNC. It produces agreements that are, by definition, agreements—no imposition is involved. It produces outcomes that are legally enforceable, which is a sound principle—when people make agreements, they should be able to be called upon to honour them. It produces a level playing field across Scotland, among rich and poor authorities, on the conditions and pay that apply. I am not here to speak for the EIS, but that organisation will say a lot more about that in the coming period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 105170,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify that the perception of consensus by the management side was not formed because of the machinery of the SJNC; rather, the situation arose from a management attitude, which has been clearly outlined—if management did not get what it wanted, it did not want the SJNC. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105172",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wimbor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 105172,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to overemphasise this point but, in the early part of this year, it was clear that the stakes were high in the negotiations—if we did not reach an agreement, the management would be in a position to ensure that the SJNC ceased to exist.In a previous incarnation, I was a further education officer with EIS and was involved in relatively similar discussions in which national bargaining within further education was lost. We are all aware of what has happened in that sector. The last thing that we want is to repeat the mistakes that we made in the further education sector by losing national bargaining and removing negotiating rights from 60,000 teachers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105174",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 105174,
      "EditedText": "I know that Ronnie has views on arbitration, which I will let him articulate, as he is very clear on the matter."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105175",
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      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
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      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 105175,
      "EditedText": "The answer to that point is very simple. The SJNC—to which, as you will have heard, we are greatly attracted although others are not—has explicit provision for arbitration within its framework. However, we have been told that that framework is disappearing. We have read in the press that the convener of the management side does not think that arbitration is appropriate. Furthermore, I read on the BBC website the leaked Cabinet document that apparently dismisses arbitration as well. The short answer is that two of the three participants in the SJNC have declared, by somewhat circuitous routes, that arbitration is not an option that they would be prepared to consider.The teachers' side of the SJNC has not discussed arbitration as an option. However, given our commitment to working within the framework of the SJNC, it would be safe to say that the issue would be carefully considered if it were to raise its head in the SJNC."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105183",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 105183,
      "EditedText": "For the duration of the negotiations?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105184",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wimbor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 105184,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The management side was clear that if there was a failure to reach agreement at the end of the process, it had the political support to ensure that the SJNC would disappear. That was made clear to us right from the start."
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 105186,
      "EditedText": "I understand that nobody wants to negotiate through this committee—that is not your purpose in talking to us today; it is to open up this issue—but in the circumstances that you describe, when you go for your next negotiations on Friday, the gun has been fired, to use Ken's metaphor. The situation now is that the political movement from the Executive is to abolish the SJNC. What do you, on the teachers' side, want to get out of the negotiations, apart from the best deal for your members? What do you think should be the right negotiating machinery? Can you tell us how the SJNC should change—not be abolished?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 105188,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry if we have run out of time—a couple more members were wanting to contribute. I thank representatives of the SJNC for their presentation and for answering questions. These discussions will obviously continue. They will be aware that we have invited the Minister for Children and Education to speak to us in 10 minutes' time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 105191,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 105192,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 105193,
      "EditedText": "I thank members for returning so promptly. We now move on. Good morning, minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 105199,
      "EditedText": "No. Nothing could be further from the truth. We sided with no one. I made it clear at the start that I would not get involved in those negotiations, which were for the negotiating committee. The future of the SJNC had already been announced in the white paper, and I made it clear to both sides that if that body could not produce a package that would be acceptable to both sides, we would want to consider its future. That was not a threat; it was known publicly by everyone and it was in the newspapers at the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 105201,
      "EditedText": "There are seven or eight questions there. I will try to deal with each one in turn. To reiterate, the position on the SJNC was flagged up a long time ago in our white paper, which is a public document. Everyone knew about it; there was nothing underhand, devious, shotgun or threatening about it. You should not portray it in that way. I made it clear to both sides—they were aware of it—that if the system did not work, we saw no reason to persist with it. That was public knowledge. As regards funding, we were approached in July and asked if we could put in some additional money because that would be necessary for a deal. At that time we put in £8 million. We always made it clear that we were willing to look at the funding issue and to assist with that. We could not give a blank cheque—this is not a something-for-nothing society—but were willing to look at the position. There was the usual traffic between ourselves and COSLA on this and we were all of the view that the deal could be funded partly through additional Government funding and partly through efficiency measures from COSLA. I do not think that I should comment on the current negotiations. The negotiators should be allowed to get on and deal with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 105205,
      "EditedText": "Please, please, please."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 105207,
      "EditedText": "Let the minister answer the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 105208,
      "EditedText": "You asked me some questions. Do me the courtesy of allowing me to reply. We do not want an industrial dispute and we will do everything within our power to prevent one. The best position for this committee is to allow the negotiators to get on and resolve matters. The Executive will be available for consultation and discussion if the negotiators wish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 105213,
      "EditedText": "I think that you might have misinterpreted me. I wanted to know your department's statistics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 105216,
      "EditedText": "No, I cannot confirm that—we do not know the figures. We do not have that sort of information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 105221,
      "EditedText": "You are a minister of the realm—do you not feel that you might have had some influence if you had said, \"Listen chaps, listen guys, let's see if we can just get this sorted out. Children are at stake\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 105223,
      "EditedText": "You have a role—doing what I suggested would not be interference. Do you not think that you could have convinced some of them to go for arbitration? We have heard today from those on one side that they would have considered that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 105225,
      "EditedText": "You have given your view on the SJNC. After you have seen the report of Professor McCrone's committee, what will be your view on the future of national collective bargaining?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 105226,
      "EditedText": "I do not take a view on that—I am genuinely looking for a way forward and I am genuinely open to any suggestions. That is why that committee is there—to make proposals. I have absolutely no view on what the structure should be afterwards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105228",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 105228,
      "EditedText": "What a splendid description. Let me be clear about the tripartite nature of the SJNC. We have two representatives on it. They are there only as observers and in an advisory capacity—we are not part of the negotiations. That should be made absolutely clear. I do not want to get into hypothetical discussions, because that is not helpful. I have said from the outset that we are keen to ensure that there is a deal. We want to be helpful. However, I am not willing to start negotiations here. This is not the place for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 105229,
      "EditedText": "Untypically, I am trying to be helpful to you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 105231,
      "EditedText": "No, I am trying to be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 105232,
      "EditedText": "\"I am Mike Russell and I am here to be helpful to you.\" Absolutely!"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 105235,
      "EditedText": "I am just sorry that you will not help yourself or the Scottish teachers in this situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 105238,
      "EditedText": "Does the minister agree that there is an opportunity to have a wide-ranging review of and a fresh look at management structures in our schools? Does he further agree—and this has not happened during the process—that there should be an agreement on the way forward, rather than merely a management side offer that will be rejected?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 105240,
      "EditedText": "Why, in that case, is there no union representative on the committee of inquiry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 105241,
      "EditedText": "Please speak through the chair. We are not just taking questions willy-nilly. We are trying to establish a reasonable discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 105242,
      "EditedText": "It was a good question that deserves an answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 105244,
      "EditedText": "The Executive, and the old Scottish Office education department, has never been involved in negotiations—never, ever. The First Minister's—or the secretary of state's—role was to appoint observers. We are not there to negotiate and we do not take part in the discussions—we never have. The negotiations are between the employers and the unions. We were approached and asked to provide more money to try to seal the deal. We offered to put that money forward. We suggested some changes to the wording, but we have never been involved in the negotiations and we have no role in the negotiations. It is not a tripartite body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 105248,
      "EditedText": "They will contribute to the inquiry by introducing evidence and by being involved in that way. You have to understand the nature and the structure of the committee. There will be an independent body that looks at the issue from outside—no one on the committee represents any interests. It is the evidence, and who introduces that evidence, that is important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 105254,
      "EditedText": "I do not mean that the committee should go into each authority, but would it go into detail with some authorities? That should not be done simply through COSLA, but rather the committee should go a bit further and obtain—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 105270,
      "EditedText": "We tried to resolve the matter as well as we could. We should wait for the outcome of the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 105275,
      "EditedText": "I would like this committee to adopt a non-bipartisan approach, rather than view it as a place at which to score political points. We need to address the agenda. The issue of teachers' pay and conditions is crucial. I have said before that we cannot deliver our agenda without having committed teachers and attracting them to the profession. That is why I want a system that rewards them properly and recognises their professionalism and their commitment. Because the current system does not do that, I want a better system in place.It is important for us to remember that there is another huge agenda out there: that of delivering for the pupils. That concerns issues of constantly improving and raising standards, helping teachers to improve, supporting teachers, exclusions and the excellence fund: all those important matters. I look to the committee to address some of those parts of the agenda. Give us suggestions and ideas on how we can take the agenda forward, concentrating on the pupils' interests and what we can do for them in future. I look forward to the committee making suggestions.As you know, I have given the committee the two documents on the bill and the General Teaching Council. In future, I will provide the committee with every document that comes from our department, including the McCrone committee recommendations, which I will bring to this committee immediately they are available. The committee will report to the unions, COSLA and ourselves, and I will ensure that you get the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 105276,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 105279,
      "EditedText": "I am talking about the offer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105288",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 105288,
      "EditedText": "They have no remit to deal with this year's offer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 105292,
      "EditedText": "I hope that clears that up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 105293,
      "EditedText": "I hope that it is clear what the committee will be doing.There do not seem to be any more questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 105294,
      "EditedText": "I have one. Given what I said earlier, I believe that it is important that control over education stays with councils. That is why the Executive should be at arm's length, because any other message would be badly misinterpreted by councils. I think that everyone would agree with me on that point. Can you reassure me that if the committee of inquiry comes up with a successor to the SJNC, the Executive will still be at arm's length? That is an important point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 105304,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps you should stop interrupting, then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 105307,
      "EditedText": "Please do not start saying things that are not true. We put in additional sums when we were asked to do so. It was always recognised that additional money would be put in, in the normal traffic of conversation between ourselves and COSLA. Please stop misleading people on these things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 105313,
      "EditedText": "Can The Scotsman?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 105315,
      "EditedText": "Members should not have discussions across the table. That is not helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 105206,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful if you could answer the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 105260,
      "EditedText": "I return briefly to the issue of money. I am not sure why you are being so vague about that. All the evidence at our disposal suggests that the councils will not be able to afford an offer that will be acceptable to the teachers. The question that I was asking you is that if that is proved to be the case on Friday or shortly thereafter, will you as the Minister for Children and Education put more money on the table to break the impasse and avoid industrial action? I thought that you could have given a yes or no answer; I am not sure why that has not been forthcoming.My second point goes back to the McCrone committee. You say that you are not into gesture politics and I accept that, but you have made gestures to local authorities through having a chief executive on the committee. You have made gestures to the directors of education and to HMI as they are involved in an advisory capacity. You have made gestures to head teachers. Why is it that the only partner in education not involved in the committee is—through the teaching unions—the teaching profession? You may not want to make gestures, but would it not have been cleverer to involve the teachers in the process? Would not that have increased the likelihood of the end result being accepted by all those involved in education?I was surprised to hear you say that you had no view on the structure that was to replace the SJNC because, if memory serves me correctly, in Parliament after your statement—I think in response to Hugh Henry—you gave an unequivocal commitment that national collective bargaining would continue. Have you changed your view?Will you give a commitment—a yes or no answer will suffice—that you will be bound by the outcome of the McCrone committee, even if you do not agree with its recommendations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 105264,
      "EditedText": "There is still a chair at the table. Will you advise the committee to have it filled by a classroom teacher?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 105273,
      "EditedText": "That is outrageous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 105289,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that they have no remit to deal with the pay offer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 105301,
      "EditedText": "It is a simple question. Will you answer the question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 105303,
      "EditedText": "He has not answered a single question yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 105092,
      "EditedText": "I have read many of the COSLA papers on this subject. My understanding is that, even taking into account the changes to management structure that you outlined, the funding gap by the end of year 3 would have been £16 million. That gap would not have been plugged by the £8 million that Sam Galbraith mentioned in his statement to Parliament two weeks ago. Perhaps you can comment on that point at the end of the session.I want to ask about Danny's opening statement. I was glad to hear that Danny accepted the ballot result. However, I was more concerned to hear him try to explain away the ballot result by referring to teachers' years of frustration and the negotiating mechanism. Following the ballot result, does COSLA accept teachers' concerns about the contents of the offer? For example, instead of recruiting, rewarding and retaining teachers, the management structure would arguably have created a bottleneck in the middle management of the profession. Teachers were concerned that proposals on working hours would have undermined their professional autonomy; they also had valid concerns about the increase in composite class sizes.Although I take Danny's point about not looking back, it is important to learn the lessons of the past. Presumably COSLA will be giving evidence to the McCrone committee in due course. It would be reassuring to hear that the concerns expressed by 98 per cent of the teaching profession were being taken on board and that COSLA was not simply seeking to explain the ballot result with reference to the negotiating machinery.I am confused about the negotiating machinery itself. Danny implied that had different machinery been in place, the offer would have been implemented. However, I do not think that a different negotiating mechanism would have made teachers think differently about the offer. Is he saying that the changes that he wants to make to the negotiating mechanism should allow COSLA to impose unpopular and unworkable changes on the education system? If so, that is unacceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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      "ID": 1848,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 105135,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to ask a question."
    },
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    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105138",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 105138,
      "EditedText": "We have not had a satisfactory answer to that point, and it would take only 30 seconds."
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  {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 6 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2138,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Mary Mulligan): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 105075,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, everyone. A number of members have yet to join us, but they are on their way.I should like to take a couple of minutes to explain how we will proceed this morning. The Scottish Joint Negotiating Committee management side has been allotted 45 minutes to make an initial statement and to take questions from committee members. Representatives from the SJNC teachers' side have been allotted 45 minutes for the same process. That should take us to approximately 11 o'clock. At that stage, the committee will take a comfort break for 10 minutes, because I am aware that we are prone to overrunning and I thought that we should build in a little break. At 11.10, the minister and his deputy will join us, and we will have an hour to ask them questions. Following their presentation and after they leave us, I ask committee members to remain for 10 or 15 minutes so that we can go through some housekeeping matters such as the visits to schools and meetings after the recess: please spare some time to do that."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105076",
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      "ID": 527
    },
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    },
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      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 105076,
      "EditedText": "I want to push on with important business. I welcome the panel from the Scottish Joint Negotiating Committee management side. The procedure has already been explained, so I will hand over to you, Councillor McCafferty, to introduce the other members of the panel. After that, you will have up to 10 minutes for your statement. We would be grateful if you could kept it as short as possible. Then I will open the floor to committee members, so that they can ask you questions."
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oonagh Aitken (Chief Executive, COSLA): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 105078,
      "EditedText": "I am Oonagh Aitken, chief executive of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities."
    },
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  {
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    },
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Bloomer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 105091,
      "EditedText": "When tabled, the offer would have cost £187 million in its third financial year, when the new arrangements would have been fully implemented. The Scottish Executive's support grant—which would have been made available in any event—would have supplied £120 million of that amount. Another £43 million would have come from other central Government sources, such as additional funding and using aspects of the excellence fund to achieve the same objectives through different routes. Local authorities would have been required to fund the resulting gap of £24 million from economies made by changes in conditions of service, such as absence cover and the funding of in-service training. COSLA finance experts thought that, in its final form, the package was viable, but only just. However, although the offer would have stretched the limits of authorities' finances as far as they would go, we reckoned that it was viable and that we would have been able to sustain it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105099",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 105099,
      "EditedText": "The short answer is that we might as well abolish the SJNC here and now if we want to start discussing these matters in public, instead of on Friday. The SJNC meets on Friday and it has to discuss all the issues. With respect, we will leave the discussion until then."
    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 105101,
      "EditedText": "Briefly."
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  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105106",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 105106,
      "EditedText": "Ian was next. I will take Ian and come back to you, Michael."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105108",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 105108,
      "EditedText": "I just want to ask a follow-up question."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105112",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 105112,
      "EditedText": "East Lothian has a budget figure of 3 per cent, Aberdeenshire has 2.5 per cent and Clackmannanshire has 3 per cent; if the offer is to be above an average of those, will you have to talk to the Executive about resources?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105113",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 105113,
      "EditedText": "Any pay settlement from 8 per cent downwards will have to be considered within the context of local government finances."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105122",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 105122,
      "EditedText": "If we had anticipated a recommendation for a no ballot, we would certainly have presented the document entirely differently. We were working on the assumption that both the teachers' side and the management side would produce a joint presentation for teachers. Perhaps we were foolish; perhaps we believed that we were going to produce a joint presentation."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105117",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Bloomer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 105117,
      "EditedText": "I will take up a few points, if I may. In your opening phrase, Mr Jenkins, you said that it was a mistake to bring about a culture change as a by-product of a single year's pay increase. However, the critical point is that this was not a single year's pay increase. It was the end of an extremely long period of negotiation and followed on from the millennium review that was set up by agreement between the two sides to explore in depth exactly the kinds of issues that you talk about.A task group was set up to consider the promotion structure. There was considerable agreement among that group that the structure was over-elaborate and that, in some respects, it inhibited rather than promoted change. Furthermore, the deal was to be introduced over a three-year period. This was not a one-off arrangement, but a complex process of negotiation, which was designed to produce the changes needed to suit the profession for the next decade or longer.The Scottish system's reliance on promotion is virtually unique—I cannot think of another education system in the western world that places such a reliance on it. I think that it arose from a comparatively cynical attempt in the early 1970s to buy off teacher discontent by creating additional posts, rather than by giving significant pay increases across the board. As I said, I accept that getting out of the over-reliance on promotion structures is a difficult process, which cannot be painless.We already have examples in Scotland of successful collegiate working. The primary sector, by and large, works collegiately. For instance, the five to 14 programme has been successfully and almost completely implemented in the primary sector on that basis, but the programme has made little headway in secondary 1 and secondary 2, where it operates against the vested interests that are built into a subject-based promotion structure. There are extremely important educational reasons for trying to alter the ways in which secondary schools, in particular, are managed. The proposal must be viewed in the context of other changes that are taking place, which the management side took into account. The Government has, through the excellence fund, financed the introduction of classroom assistants as another means of support for schools. The Audit Commission and Her Majesty's inspectorate study, \"Time for Teaching\", was specifically designed to move a lot of the bureaucratic burdens from teachers to support staff of one kind or another, who are much more appropriately employed for that purpose. A culture change was being proposed, but we believed that the change was absolutely necessary in the educational interests of the community."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 105125,
      "EditedText": "The process probably broke down over both. Although there are similarities, the teachers' side was expecting far more in excess of the pay offer that was put to them. As you have heard from Keir, we were already stretching the bank but they wanted us to go well beyond that. From the teachers' perspective, that was the pay element. There are differences within the sectors regarding the conditions of service. What might satisfy the secondary sector might not satisfy the primary sector. Primary schools do not have principal teachers, so teachers in those schools might not have found that issue a barrier. Unfortunately, all conditions ended up in the one package, although the issues were far more complex. There are things that we should learn from that. We have to come back to the point that there are principles at stake. We have to find a way to recruit, retain and reward teachers, and we must do it collectively in the best interests of the children. Some elements, both of the management side proposals and of the counter-proposals put by the teachers, suggest that we should not simply throw out the baby with the bath water. If both sides were considering a different formulation in terms of three-tier structures, we should still focus on whether any elements that are based on common principles can be rescued. There are lessons to be learned and we should try to keep the good aspects while recognising the difficulties that have already happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 105126,
      "EditedText": "I found a lot of that evidence rather depressing, because the witnesses have expressed very little vision about what should happen next. It is right to condemn political opportunism and I think that the minister has been politically opportunistic in seizing on the failure of the negotiations to abolish the mechanism.Having said that, what happens now? Teachers have rejected the offer overwhelmingly. Even on a crude analysis of the figures, 70 per cent of all teachers have said that they do not want the offer. You have been reasonably honest about where things have gone wrong, and we shall ask the opinion of the unions about the matter in a moment, but what happens next? An independent review has been suggested, but I do not believe that the teachers seriously want to take industrial action; indeed, there is a traditional reluctance on the part of teachers to do that. Yet, at this crisis moment, when they want to know what happens next, teachers are being faced with the possibility of what they would regard as an insulting pay offer.\"What happens next?\" is the key question in this dispute, and this committee has not heard what COSLA hopes will happen next or what actions it can take to stave off the situation that Danny described as being at the edge of an abyss. We are at the very edge, but nothing that I have heard so far tells me how you, as key people in the negotiations, can prevent us from falling into the abyss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 105127,
      "EditedText": "Can you answer that question in two minutes?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 105128,
      "EditedText": "I will certainly do so. I regret Mike Russell's opening remarks. That is the kind of political opportunism that I wanted to avoid. I do not think that it is at all helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 105130,
      "EditedText": "We must go forward constructively and the inquiry will be one of the mechanisms for creating the vision. Once the inquiry is set up, COSLA, teachers and, for the first time, parents, school boards and members of the Scottish Parliament, will have an opportunity to contribute, so that the visions of all those who are interested in education—academics or lay people—can be fed into the inquiry. If a few people cannot get it right, perhaps a whole nation can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 105134,
      "EditedText": "What we do now is to go to the meeting on Friday, to start to negotiate and to talk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C105137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 105137,
      "EditedText": "There are still questions to be answered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 105139,
      "EditedText": "We have already overrun our time and we have to move on. The discussion could go on for much longer, but I now want to thank the witnesses for their presentations. We are grateful to you all for answering our questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Councillor McCafferty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 105140,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Malcolm MacIver (Convener, SJNC): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 105148,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I will introduce the teachers' side first. Beside me is May Ferries, who is the vice-convener of the teachers' side. In real life, May is deputy head teacher of Victoria Primary school in Glasgow. I am the convener of the teachers' side and, in my other life, I am the assistant head teacher at Grangemouth High school, which is run by Falkirk Council. On my other side is Ronnie Smith, who is the general secretary of the Educational Institute of Scotland in his other life. Alongside Ronnie is Ken Wimbor, who is an assistant secretary of the EIS and who is also the joint secretary of the teachers' side of the SJNC.In late 1996, representatives of the management and teachers' sides of the SJNC held a series of meetings with a view to improving relations between the sides and to moving towards agreed positions on a number of key policy areas. As a consequence, in September 1998, reports from four millennium review task groups were agreed by the umbrella strategy group and by the full SJNC. The reports covered the funding of education and the Scottish Parliament, managing demographic change, management structures in Scottish schools and enhancing the work and effectiveness of the SJNC.Previously, in May 1998, following agreement on that year's salaries round, the SJNC agreed as follows: \"To enter into longer-term negotiations to achieve salary levels for Scottish teachers such as to attract and retain in the profession high quality practitioners and, given there is a joint and shared recognition of the need both to (a) reward the dedicated classroom teacher(b) review the Management structure in Scottish schools to secure a high quality education service, fit for the 21st century which can command the support of the community and teaching staff.\"The SJNC then established a negotiating sub-committee, which met for the first time on 11 November 1998. Five further meetings of the sub-committee took place, over a 10-month period, with significant pauses when councillors were unavailable. On 25 January 1999, the management side tabled its first offer. The teachers' side then tabled counter-proposals on 17 March and at an 18-hour meeting on 25 March, the management side tabled its so-called final offer.Informal representations were made to the management side, which eventually agreed to enter into further discussions on the final offer. On Friday, 20 August, the management side tabled its revised offer. As members will know, all the organisations that were represented on the teachers' side have rejected that offer and, where ballots were held, it was rejected by 98 per cent of the membership. The offer was deeply flawed, incoherent in places and would not have served the best interests of our young people or of the teaching profession. There are four principal reasons for its rejection.First, on working hours, the proposed additional duties and additional hours would have taken many teachers away from duties directly associated with teaching and learning, which would have worsened existing work-load burdens. In addition, existing professional autonomy over the time that supports the process of teaching and learning would have been lost. Although teachers are readily engaged in social inclusion activities, often on the basis of some form of overtime, it is our view that the primacy of teaching and learning must remain paramount. Secondly, the proposal to increase composite class sizes from 25 to 30 was introduced for purely economic reasons. The increase in class sizes would have freed up £20 million to pay for other aspects of the offer.Thirdly, the management side was unable to be clear as to whether the idea of the new professional leader was to be a grade or a post. Although the concept was meant to reward the dedicated classroom practitioner, 20 non-teaching duties were added to the remit of the new position. Lastly, the pay offer is worth 14.7 per cent as an increase in the total salary bill, that is, 4.7 per cent per year. The current rate of increase in average earnings is more than 5 per cent. This year, the average graduate starting salary is £17,360. In three years, COSLA will be offering a starting point for teachers of £16,000.We deeply regret the Minister for Children and Education's announcement to abolish the SJNC. Members have before them copies of the agreement between COSLA and the teaching unions which proposes a mechanism to ensure a greater degree of flexibility and local autonomy over existing national agreements. It is unfortunate, to say the least, that the minister has taken the decision to abolish the SJNC, apparently without giving proper consideration to the agreed position between the management side and the teachers' side of the SJNC. We are also unclear about the mechanism by which the recommendations of the McCrone committee will be implemented. Will both sides—teachers and management—be required to reach agreement or will the recommendations be introduced through legislation? Members should be in no doubt that the removal of negotiating rights from 60,000 Scottish teachers is not the way to establish partnership or consensus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ken Wimbor (Joint Secretary, SJNC): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 105158,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm has already highlighted the main areas of disagreement that have existed for some time. The main problems related to working hours and the professional autonomy over an aspect of those working hours; the composite class issue; the fact that the professional leadership proposal was flawed and was badly thought through; and the fact that the pay offer over three years did not match the increase in average earnings. Those four areas led to the profession's rejection of the agreement.I would like to make a point about the mechanism by which the negotiations were conducted. Unlike previous negotiations within the SJNC, the management side presented us with a number of offers throughout the process. It was never put to us that we should attempt to reach a draft agreement for presentation in the future. We were presented with offers that remained in the management's possession whether or not the offer was final."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 105160,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful if you could submit to the committee the paper to which you referred."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 105161,
      "EditedText": "You have spoken—and we have heard from others—about the SJNC management side coming up with various offers. I want to push you to find out what you suggested to the management side. Let us take, for example, the middle rank—the superteacher role. What were your counter-proposals on that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 105165,
      "EditedText": "You have indicated that there is a lot to be said for the SJNC. However, you went through a negotiation process that lasted for some months, if not longer, yet the offer that was put on the table was overwhelmingly rejected by the teachers' side. At what stage should you have indicated that the offer would not be acceptable? In what way did the SJNC make that situation arise?"
    },
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  },
  {
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 105166,
      "EditedText": "I will let Ronnie speak first, then I will come back in. That is an important perception, which we have to challenge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 105167,
      "EditedText": "First, we have to clear up the facts. I was encouraged to hear Danny McCafferty come clean on this earlier—and in The Times Educational Supplement on Friday. At no point did anybody say that there was an agreement. Apparently, the management side detected other coded messages. I am absolutely clear what questions were put, because I was present at all the meetings. When the management side was unable to secure an answer in the affirmative that we would recommend the offer to our bodies, it changed the question. The question it put was, \"Will you at least put this offer to your members?\" We said we would, and we did. We have honoured, to the letter, any commitment that was given within the SJNC.The apparent gap in understanding may have much to do with the psychology of the negotiations. Malcolm MacIver and, I think, Ken Wimbor made the point that the previous convener was absolutely clear that the management side would achieve change, with or without agreement. The management side was driving this; it was its property and it was making offers. I have never been involved in a negotiation that has been conducted in such a way. At no time was there an attempt to agree a draft document that each side could then take back to their constituent bodies. It was a most peculiar way in which to proceed and I believe that it derived from the message that the management side had received—how that message was given to it, I cannot tell—that it had support and that it would achieve this change, by hook or by crook. That is why the gap of understanding opened up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 105168,
      "EditedText": "The point about the SJNC—as Ronnie said—is that it is made up of three sides. It can move forward only on the basis of three sides reaching agreement, which is an interesting model in terms of the supposed new politics in Scotland. Arguably, the SJNC is a model for achieving change on the basis of consent and through partnership. It is difficult to proceed when two partners of a tripartite organisation do not want to make things work. The SJNC can work if people want it to, but it has to work on the basis of compromise. People need to sit down and reach agreement like adults. We cannot have a situation where one side says that it wants change and it is either going to get it through agreement or by replacing the negotiating machinery and driving the change through. The message that that gives to Scottish teachers is clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 105173,
      "EditedText": "It has been said that negotiations have been going on since the millennium review. During that period, the education ministers have changed and, with council elections, the members of the COSLA team have changed. Have either the lack of the involvement of Government ministers or the subsequent change following the May elections contributed to the problems that we face? Could ministers have done something differently that might have helped to alleviate the situation?Both parties have said today that, in some respects, agreement is very close. Naturally, there are areas of difference that need to be worked on. However, if the minister, as a member of the SJNC, had come to you and suggested some kind of marriage guidance or arbitration to help the negotiations, would you have found that proposal attractive? As a second part to that question, if your answer had been no, would you have changed your views if the minister had then offered to underwrite such arbitration financially?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
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      "EditedText": "To answer your second question about money—there was a long discussion with the management side about the package. It was very clear that what it was offering was extraordinarily generous. It used very strong language, but I do not want to get into a discussion about whether that is significant.There was a parcel of money on the table, but members of the committee should be in no doubt that we repeatedly told the management side that its ambition and what it was offering would not—in our view—be attractive to Scottish teachers.I found it in some senses disappointing to listen to some of what the management side said this morning. I recognise that Danny McCafferty only came in after May—there has been much changing of players on its side. The teachers' side has stayed the same, but the players with whom we have been dealing have changed in a variety of ways.The management side knew at an early stage that we had made a commitment to our members that any significant change of the nature suggested would have to be decided on by ballot. If, therefore, it needed to convince anybody, it would not need to convince May and I to go to our salaries committee—it would need to convince people in staff rooms and to listen to the debate there.The management side had to recognise that if it had a limited amount of money, there was a limited amount that it could ask for. It was told more than once that it was overstretching itself and that it was being extraordinarily over-ambitious in terms of professional leaders, working hours, composite classes and so on.Essentially it asked for far too much and offered far too little. The skill of negotiation is, ultimately, to reach a compromise between what can be offered and what people will do for it. I can still hear May's speech about composite classes, in which she pointed out that what the management side was suggesting would not go down well and that it should be under no illusions about that.I made it perfectly clear that we were prepared to engage with the management side on the subject of management structures in secondary schools. We have no difficulty with that. We are not some neanderthal organisation that is resistant to change—that would be an absurd charge to level at Scottish teachers when one looks at what is happening in schools.The management side's view of the issue of professional leaders—without bad-mouthing pet food manufacturers—is a dog's breakfast. None of the people in schools who must deliver education understood it. We were dealing with people who manage education and who manage budgets, among them a director of personnel who approached the issue from the standpoint of that function.Nobody who delivers education day to day in schools has stood up to say anything positive about the management side's proposals. There is much in that for both parties to reflect on, but I think that the only way that we can ultimately move forward is on a basis of consent.Disappointment at the minister's first reaction was not as a result of the messenger getting it wrong, but because there was something wrong with the message. We still have a major problem on our hands—how to avoid the problems that could arise with teachers in Scotland. What sorts of messages are being put across by the composition of the McCrone committee, the nature of its remit and so on? It looks as if we are dealing with a management side that will—as it said months ago—try to get what it wants using the powers it has if it cannot get it by consent. It is our view that that is not for the benefit of Scottish education or for the young people of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 105177,
      "EditedText": "We have time for a quick supplementary. I remind members that we have only five minutes left for this."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C105178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 105178,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to the first point I made. In your view, has there been any difference in the changeover from Helen Liddell to Sam Galbraith? I am not aware that Helen Liddell said that we should use the winding up of the SJNC as part of the bargaining process. Has there been a difference caused by Danny McCafferty taking over from Elizabeth Maginnis? Is that a contributory factor?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105179",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 105179,
      "EditedText": "This is not a question of personalities. The semi-detached attitude of ministers to the SJNC predates the previous general election. I do not think that the change in COSLA has been an issue.People have been saying that the negotiation period is very long—it lasted 10 months. It began in November 1998 and there were long pregnant pauses when there was no one with whom to negotiate because councillors were preoccupied with other things such as getting re-elected—or not, as the case may be.The period of negotiation has not been that long, but that is not down to personalities. The issues that are around go back a long way and will, I dare say, carry on into the future."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
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      "EditedText": "I want to be clear about what you on the teachers' side are saying, because it touches on a considerable issue. From my understanding, you were involved in driving the millennium review forward and contributed very positively to it, but you found yourself negotiating in an atmosphere in which you were essentially told—actually told, according to Malcolm—that either you accepted the proposal or the whole mechanism was likely to be abolished. Therefore, Scottish teachers were essentially negotiating with one hand tied behind their back while, one might say, being punched in the face. That was going on in reality. You were being told, \"Accept this or the mechanism is going to go.\""
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 105181,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. Ken wants to add to it, and I am happy to let him give his perspective, as he is joint secretary."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105182",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wimbor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 105182,
      "EditedText": "I would use another metaphor: the proverbial gun was at our head for the duration of the negotiations."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C105187",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 105187,
      "EditedText": "This is interesting: the genesis of this matter was a meeting that took place a long time a go. I think that, of everyone to whom you have spoken this morning, we are the only four who were at the original meeting. A difficulty has been created by the change of personnel. The original issue—it still remains—was about local variations to the SJNC. There was also a discussion about management structures in secondary schools. We were prepared to engage on that. We reached agreement with local authority representatives and offered them a model on how to establish local variations within the framework of the SJNC. Interestingly, however, once we reached agreement, certain voices on the management side did not like it, and resiled from it. The SJNC is still in existence. Clearly, it has to come to this Parliament and to this committee, whatever happens in the future. It is our view that, as long as the SJNC is in existence, we will operate in its framework. In that sense, we still have a responsibility to resolve this year's pay round for Scottish teachers in the best way we can, and to be clear that that is what we will do. To an extent, we also have to address the issue of our relationship with the McCrone committee, but we have to articulate our concern which is, ultimately, how to move forward. There is a general agreement and commitment to take Scottish education forward. In our view, that cannot be done—it would be folly—without the consent of 60,000 Scottish teachers. People should be clear that we will articulate the necessity of doing it on the basis of consensus and of all parties sitting down and reaching an agreement. If other people wish somehow to move forward on a they-know-best basis, that is for us in the SJNC and for the collective teachers' side to reflect on. At this stage, the SJNC is still in existence, and we believe that it still has a function to carry out. That is what we intend to do."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C105189",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacIver: ",
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      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, convener. I thank members for their time."
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  {
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 105190,
      "EditedText": "There will now be a 10-minute break before the minister joins us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 105195,
      "EditedText": "We will allow you between five and 10 minutes to open the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 105196,
      "EditedText": "We do not need that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 105198,
      "EditedText": "Minister, I want to ask about an issue that arose from the evidence of the two groups that have just spoken to us. The Educational Institute of Scotland, the teaching side on the SJNC, is of the opinion that the Government sided with COSLA, the management side on the SJNC, against its representatives. It said that you effectively held a gun to its head and that, for all the time it was in negotiations, the threat that the SJNC would be abolished was hanging over it. Do you recognise that fact?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 105203,
      "EditedText": "We do not want an industrial dispute. We will do everything we possibly can to avoid—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 105214,
      "EditedText": "For what—for the number of classes that would go up or down? We do not have those—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 105222,
      "EditedText": "Do you want me to interfere in the negotiations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 105227,
      "EditedText": "I want to go back to the vexed question of money. I understand that you do not want to dance on the tripartite organisation of which you are a member, but Danny McCafferty admitted that his council has put aside 2.6 per cent for a teachers' pay rise, and in The Scotsman on Monday there was an article by Tom Little—who is sitting here—pointing out that East Lothian has put aside 3 per cent, Aberdeen 2.5 per cent, and Glasgow 2.5 per cent. Money will be an issue. Can you reassure the 60,000 or 70,000 teachers who are concerned that when the discussion takes place on Friday, you will be there, and even if you are not dancing, you will sit it out like a wallflower, prepared to help out with your wallet if things get difficult?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 105233,
      "EditedText": "I know that that idea is unusual to you, but the fact is that you want to avoid strike action, and I believe you. We have heard that the management side and the union side want to avoid strike action. Scottish teachers—and I declare an interest because I am married to one—want to avoid strike action. But how—and this is a serious question—do we avoid strike action if, at the crucial moment when teachers come in for another discussion of the matter, they find themselves not only having been offered something that they do not want, but having been offered less than what other people are getting? Surely money is crucial. Surely the message going out from the Executive as well as the management side should be that they want to clear up this year's dispute before starting further discussion on changes in education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 105234,
      "EditedText": "I could not agree with you more, Mike. I want the dispute to be resolved because industrial action is in no one's interests. The Executive stands willing to play its part in the resolution of the dispute, but it would not be right or helpful for us to start laying out positions when negotiations are taking place. You might not know this, but negotiators never lay out their positions before they reach the table. Thank you for the helpful suggestions, however."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 105236,
      "EditedText": "The local authority budget settlement is a red herring, Mike. As most local authority budgets were set in March, there is already an amount for settlements. The settlements exist for the purpose of setting council tax levels. If another settlement comes in above or below the budget figure, the budget must be adjusted accordingly. That is a straightforward issue, and The Scotsman has been adventurous in suggesting that it is anything other than normal to go through that process.I am in no doubt that the SJNC will reach a settlement that will be acceptable to Scottish teachers for the forthcoming year. Whether an agreement that is acceptable in the broadest sense can be reached after the review process is a much bigger issue. I am committed to national collective bargaining, even if the minister is not prepared to take a position on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 105245,
      "EditedText": "I repeat the question: if you have that consensual view and your proposal to reinforce consensus is to abolish the consensual machinery, which is an odd way to get consensus, why do you not bring into your inquiry a representative of the trade union? We asked you that question last week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 105246,
      "EditedText": "The committee of inquiry is not a representative body—it is an independent committee that will step back from the situation. That is why trade unions are not on the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105249",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 105249,
      "EditedText": "Would it be a good gesture to teachers, given the difficulties of the present—"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 105251,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps a few more kindly gestures would help you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 105253,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure what you mean."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105257",
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 105257,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure what you are proposing. Are you talking about a case in which you might feel that a council was not doing something properly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 105258,
      "EditedText": "No. The committee of inquiry will address, for example, composite classes—the Highland experience of that will be different from the Glasgow experience, and I would have hoped that the committee of inquiry would take some kind of—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 105263,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 105265,
      "EditedText": "No. It was not my calculation that this arrangement would satisfy everyone. I did it in the certain knowledge that there would be complaints about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 105269,
      "EditedText": "It alienates a key constituency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 105272,
      "EditedText": "You are helping to undermine confidence in the committee—you should think twice about doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C105274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 105274,
      "EditedText": "All members round the table believe that the overwhelming concern is to ensure that children in Scotland are given the best possible education. We are not at that stage at the moment, Sam. Can you tell us how you think, as a committee, we can help to make progress? How do you think that the Executive can make progress in improving the education of our children?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 105278,
      "EditedText": "You are not talking about the deal; you are talking about the millennium review, not the COSLA offer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 105284,
      "EditedText": "No, that has nothing to do with this year's deal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C105286",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 105286,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. You would want them to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105296",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 105296,
      "EditedText": "You are a good actor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105298",
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      "ID": 527
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 105298,
      "EditedText": "Nor should you live in a world where you pretend not to be in places."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105302",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 105302,
      "EditedText": "Will you give Mr Galbraith the chance to answer the question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3089891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C105318",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 105318,
      "EditedText": "Excuse me, minister, but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.3402383+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 105319,
      "EditedText": "I have tried to be lenient, Ian, but you should have asked a question. I will allow a question from Fiona, after which we shall try to wind up this meeting."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105323",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 105323,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that clear answer.I thank members for their questions and I now want to draw the meeting to a conclusion. It is difficult for the minister to answer questions about hypothetical situations, but he has tried to answer the questions that have been put. Thank you, Mr Galbraith, for attending this meeting."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105202",
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    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 105202,
      "EditedText": "You have not answered two of my questions. First, there would have been a £60 million gap at the end of year three, and you offered £8 million. All the efficiency savings were taken into account. Where was the extra money to have come from? Secondly, I am not asking you to negotiate in public; I am asking you whether, if COSLA cannot come up with an offer that is acceptable to teachers within its existing means, the Executive will put more money on the table to avoid a damaging industrial dispute?"
    },
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 105204,
      "EditedText": "Will you put—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 105209,
      "EditedText": "It is a simple question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 105262,
      "EditedText": "For the purposes of this meeting, I will accept that that was your calculation and was made with the best of intentions, but that has not satisfied the teaching profession. You have heard the views expressed by the profession through the unions and you have heard the views of the Scottish Trades Union Congress about the composition of the committee. You heard the views expressed by members from all parties in the debate last week. Given that your calculation has not satisfied all those in education, will you change that view and advise Gavin McCrone to fill the one unfilled place on the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105266",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 105266,
      "EditedText": "That is astonishing, Sam."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 105268,
      "EditedText": "Even if that undermines the committee and makes it more likely that its recommendations will not be accepted? Even if it means that not all those involved in education will have confidence in the process that you have set up? Is that a price worth paying?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 105283,
      "EditedText": "Sam, if I heard you correctly, you said that the McCrone committee was not examining the terms of the offer, but that it was examining the millennium review. However, the terms of reference of the committee clearly state that it can look at any or all of the offers put forward by the management side on 20 August. Clearly, it has a remit to examine the offer and, if it considers it appropriate, to bring back the offer in a revised form."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105291",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 527
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 105291,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 105317,
      "EditedText": "That is not what I said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:50.2738661+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105098",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 105098,
      "EditedText": "A number of points arise from those answers and, time permitting, I will return to them. However, I want to move matters on a bit. Obviously, the negotiations have now been split in two. The immediate issue for COSLA is to agree in the SJNC on Friday a one-year pay deal with the teachers. What will be on the table for the teachers on Friday? Have you asked for additional Government resources to plug the gap, or part of it, between the 8 per cent that the teachers have asked for and the 3 per cent or so that you are reported to be about to offer the teachers? If you have, what has been the response? If you have not, why not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 105100,
      "EditedText": "Mary, may I come back on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 105102,
      "EditedText": "I am asking what the COSLA side's opening gambit to teachers will be on Friday. It is now Wednesday. The question should not be too difficult to answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105131",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 105131,
      "EditedText": "What would—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 06 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 527
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-06T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Teachers' Pay",
      "HeadingID": 2139,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 105146,
      "EditedText": "This is appalling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3615
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service Regulations (Executive Response)",
      "HeadingID": 19309,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 19309,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 638454,
      "EditedText": "We have two agendas, including a supplementary agenda that we will deal with first, as it concerns the Executive's response to the national health service regulations on which we commented last week. We have had the benefit of information on those regulations. Do committee members have any comments that they would like to make? A fairly comprehensive reply has been given in response to our worries about the continued amendments to those regulations and the consideration of consolidation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3615
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service Regulations (Executive Response)",
      "HeadingID": 19309,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19309,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638456,
      "EditedText": "The Executive seems to be learning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3615
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service Regulations (Executive Response)",
      "HeadingID": 19309,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 19309,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638455,
      "EditedText": "The response that we have received from the Executive is quite a full one that addresses the various points that the committee raised. I take on board the questions of cost and practicality that the Executive raises, but I note that it has given us a timetable according to which it intends to issue full consolidations of some of the regulations. In cases where no such plans are provided, we have been given reasonable explanations of why that is so; for example, because further amendments are expected in the next few months. We should note that the Executive's is a full and acceptable response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638458",
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      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3615
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/71)",
      "HeadingID": 19310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 19310,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 638458,
      "EditedText": "There appears to have been a proliferation of issues surrounding the first item on the agenda, but nothing untoward has been drawn to our attention. Does anybody have any comments? Are we happy simply to note the position? Members are agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3615
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/73)",
      "HeadingID": 19312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ID": 19312,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 638461,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:20."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3615
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19308,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19308,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638453,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:17"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3615
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service Regulations (Executive Response)",
      "HeadingID": 19309,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 19309,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638457,
      "EditedText": "We should express our gratitude that the Executive has taken the time to explain matters and that it appears to be working to an agenda. Its response has some basis in fact and explains why it must deal with matters as it does at the moment.That brings us to the affirmative instruments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3615
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/72)",
      "HeadingID": 19311,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
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      "ID": 19311,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 638459,
      "EditedText": "Do we note the same position on the second item on the agenda? Members are agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3615
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 3) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/73)",
      "HeadingID": 19312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 18.0,
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      "ID": 19312,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 638460,
      "EditedText": "Again, do we simply note matters concerning the third item on the agenda? Members are agreed.That brings our public meeting to a world-record swift conclusion. I thank everyone for attending. We will now have our informal briefing with representatives from the Scottish Parliament information centre and others on access to legal information and documentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 623463,
      "EditedText": "A section of the transcript is missing—the piece after \"databases in the office\". Could I impose on staff to listen to the tape again to try to fill in some of the missing words? I got the impression that there was something important there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 623466,
      "EditedText": "Does the rest of the committee agree that an investigation is definitely needed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 623469,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 623472,
      "EditedText": "The common view of the committee is that we should put our general investigation to one side for the moment and concentrate on the Beattie Media issue, examining the matter in depth. We must sort out the terms of the inquiry before we examine the detail; we need a basis on which to proceed.I have a draft set of suggested terms of reference for the investigation. I will put that before members and invite comments. I propose that we inquire into matters disclosed by material placed before the committee to consider whether that inquiry discloses evidence of breaches of any code that covers the conduct of MSPs, to report on the findings and to consider and report on the standards that ought to be applied to such conduct. What do members think about that proposal? Are we agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 623479,
      "EditedText": "I think that the terms of reference are adequate, taking into account the need for a speedy resolution of the issue and the greater public interest. That is also in the interests of the Parliament, which must remain paramount, above the party political interests of all members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 623483,
      "EditedText": "I am quite clear from the terms of the inquiry that the substance of our investigation is the material that is before us. Some very serious implications—having seen the tape, I do not know that we could call them allegations—were made on matters relating to the code of conduct of MSPs. I want to suggest a possible way forward. I do not have any difficulties about who we see first, although I want to see Alex Barr and Kevin Reid as a matter of urgency. Those are the people who have made suggestions. We need to be able to ask them straight out whether they have—or think that they have—any undue influence.Our primary interest is whether members of the Scottish Parliament have acted in a manner that is unbecoming to their position. I suggest that we consider people in the order in which they appear in the transcript. We should start with Jack McConnell, followed by Sam Galbraith, Henry McLeish, Jackie Baillie and Kenny McAskill. In the intervening time, we should gather all the information relating to ministerial diaries—particularly that of Jack McConnell, and including his private diary. We should also examine the constituency diaries of Sam Galbraith, Henry McLeish and Jackie Baillie to ensure that matters relating to their attendance at particular events mentioned in the transcript were handled properly.It would be remiss of us not to interview Kenny and give him the opportunity to appear before the committee to give his views. I do not think that there are any particular allegations made against Kenny, but because he is an MSP who is mentioned in the transcript, it would be improper not to invite him to give evidence.After we have spoken to members of the Scottish Parliament, it might be appropriate for us to hear from Lord MacDonald. There is no obligation, but we should ask for that, just to clarify the Federal Express issue. We need to speak to the journalists from The Observer. I would prefer to see the people from Beattie Media first, but the order is up for debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 623485,
      "EditedText": "The natural progression should be: first, the journalists who brought the complaint in the first place; secondly, Mr Alex Barr, Mr Gordon Beattie, Mr Reid and—perhaps—Mr Alex Thomson from Beattie Media; thirdly, the staff; finally, the ministers. There is the issue about the collection of information from the diaries, extracts from correspondence and extracts of invitations. It is competent for this committee to employ an official to collect that evidence on commission, which is what the courts do in civil cases. As this is a quasi-judicial procedure, we do not need to know any commercially confidential information that relates to say, inward investment cases that have nothing to do with this inquiry. It might be harmful to those inward investment possibilities if that information is made public. It is competent for the committee to appoint somebody to take all relevant extracts from the diaries and submit them to the committee so that they can be considered properly. That might take some time, as there are a great number of diaries and a lot of correspondence to go through."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 623486,
      "EditedText": "We have mentioned many people who we may wish to call before us as witnesses. The committee has the power to ask them to be on oath. Does the committee agree that that should happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 623490,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that anyone is suggesting all staff. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623491",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 623491,
      "EditedText": "Specific members of staff are mentioned. The question of how easy they are to contact had come up. Kevin Reid said that the fact that they are all friends of his makes it easy. He said: \"Three or four of those special advisers are close personal friends of mine, because I worked with them in the party. Chris Winslow in particular is a friend. He was at my wedding last month. We are personal friends. I worked for Jack and for Wendy and for Henry and for Donald on a one-to-one basis.\"What he is saying will be the subject of the whole inquiry. As a result of Kevin Reid's friendships and contacts, he and his company were able to have more privileged access than anybody else. It is appropriate that we call the staff who are named, because we need to examine the relationships involved and whether they gave rise to any preferential treatment."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 623493,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Des. It is important that the inquiry starts as quickly as possible. We should not argue about whether it is the journalists from The Observer or the people from Beattie Media who come first. It should be left to the officials to try to get both sets of people in front of us, as a matter of urgency. We all feel that we may have to work through the recess in order to get the inquiry on track, but we need to leave the timetabling to the officials. There is no point in saying that we would like Beattie Media or The Observer first if we cannot get them. I would like one or other of those groups to come before us on Friday, if the clerks can arrange that. It might not be possible, but the committee needs to get a message out that it wants to investigate the matter openly, honestly and as quickly as possible."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 623494,
      "EditedText": "If for any reason a special adviser cannot take evidence on commission, it is within the powers of the committee to co-opt somebody who can. The necessary information should be collected, whatever it comprises; the committee has the power to organise for that to be done."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623501",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
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      "EditedText": "It is going to take some time to gather the depth of information—as Lord James mentioned—that we want. We are looking at a time scale of possibly Thursday, but certainly Friday, for the first interviews, establishing a special adviser post—subject to the Parliamentary Bureau's agreement, and launching the investigation. We should gather the information in over a couple of weeks or so. I suggest that time scale, but I do not want us to be committed to it, as it might take more or less time. As soon as we have the report from the special adviser, we should meet—if necessary—two, three or even four times in the following weeks, to get our report out. My aim is to have the report out by the first week of November. Is everybody happy with that?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623505",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "I think that we should meet on Friday, regardless of whether we can get the witnesses by that time. We will then know whether we will have a special adviser. The Standards Committee will lead the investigation and the special adviser will support us. It is appropriate that we come to our meeting on Friday with the detail of the guidance that we want to give to the special adviser and the clerking team. Is everybody clear about the course of action that we have decided? Members indicated agreement."
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  {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
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      "EditedText": "We have a lot of work ahead of us and we want to act quickly. Thank you for coming to this meeting of the Standards Committee."
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:45."
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the public meeting at 10:14"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623460",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 623460,
      "EditedText": "I am very pleased to welcome the press and public to this meeting. I would also like to welcome Alex Neil MSP, who is in the audience.I wish to make a statement outlining the committee's understanding of certain events that have taken place since we last met, and to indicate how we now intend to proceed.The standing orders of the Parliament prohibit any discussion of matters that are sub judice, except with the permission of the Presiding Officer. In view of the petition for judicial review that was lodged by The Scotsman, I sought the agreement of the Presiding Officer to allow matters that are the subject of that petition to be discussed by the committee. Yesterday he agreed that members of the Standards Committee might refer in meetings of the committee to those matters. Copies of the Presiding Officer's letter either are being or have been distributed.On Friday afternoon, The Scotsman Publications Ltd lodged a petition with the Court of Session for judicial review of two decisions, including the decision to meet today in private for careful consideration of matters that had been placed before the committee, with a view to deciding on the terms of an investigation. The matter was continued until 10 am on Monday morning. Lord Johnston then ordered that the petition be formally served and allowed seven days for the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body to lodge answers. A date for the hearing of legal arguments is to be fixed.Lord Johnston expressed the hope that no matters of substance would be considered by the committee in private this morning. Senior counsel for the SPCB indicated that the full tenor of the court's views would be conveyed to the committee. The committee has this morning met briefly in private and taken note of the existence of the proceedings and the observations of Lord Johnston.The decision to meet in private this morning was taken against the following background. Before this morning, we have met twice to consider matters in closed session. On the first occasion, we met to consider matters relating to individual MSPs' registrations of interest. The second occasion was on 29 September, when we moved into private session to consider the letter from The Observer newspaper covering transcripts of an interview with Beattie Media. No member of the committee had the opportunity properly to consider the letter. As it might contain allegations about individual MSPs, we felt that it was only proper to consider it in private in the first instance.There will be other occasions when the committee will choose to meet in private. That is perfectly possible under standing orders. I note that committees of this Parliament regularly meet in private to consider housekeeping issues, such as timetabling of and practical arrangements for meetings. They may also meet in private to consider their approach to conducting inquiries, to deliberate about evidence taken, or to consider draft reports. This committee may choose to do likewise.Committee members have now had the opportunity to consider the written material that was submitted by The Observer newspaper. Taking into account all the material that is currently available to the committee, we have decided to view the video tapes and to consider thereafter, in public session, the terms of a possible investigation.I hope that that clarifies the procedural aspects of our meeting this morning.We will now move on to the main business. We would like to proceed immediately to view the video tapes. I should warn members, the press and the public that the technical quality of the tape is poor."
    },
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Video evidence was shown."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623464",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 169
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "You are absolutely right. There was a definite difference between the transcript and what we heard on the tape. That shows the usefulness of viewing the tape. I will ensure that we look at the tape in depth again to get a transcript of those words."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623470",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 623470,
      "EditedText": "The important thing for the committee to bear in mind is that the reputation of the Parliament is at stake. We need to ensure that the matter is investigated speedily. I accept Lord James's point that we need to consider the overall issues of regulation, codes of conduct and lobbying.Allegations have been made and evidence has been placed before us. Having seen the video, it is in the public interest that we act effectively and quickly. Karen has made that point very clear."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623471",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 623471,
      "EditedText": "I agree with all those comments. We have to show some urgency in the matter. You will probably want to discuss the timetable for dealing with the investigation, convener. I agree with Tricia Marwick that we should start with the journalists who brought the matter to our attention in order to flesh out why they took those steps. We could then move on to consider evidence from all the lobbyists that are mentioned in the transcript: Kevin Reid, Alex Barr, Alexandra Thomson, a representative from Apco UK—either the chairman or the managing director—and Gordon Beattie."
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623473",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 623473,
      "EditedText": "Can I clarify which codes apply? We are currently engaged in bringing together a code of conduct for MSPs. However, we need to know which codes apply to this case, particularly in terms of the ministerial code."
    },
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  {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18727,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 623477,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise an issue that relates to the order in which we deal with material. If we accept the idea that we are going to consider evidence of breaches of any codes—that is our function—we must start with Beattie Media, because its comments have generated the investigation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18727,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 623480,
      "EditedText": "So we are agreed on the terms of reference and can move on to Des McNulty's point about the method of investigation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 623481,
      "EditedText": "The real issue is whether there is a substantive breach. Using the transcript, we need to identify the areas in which we feel there might be a breach. That will establish the parameters in which we operate. We can work outwards from that.I am anxious to call Mr Barr, Mr Reid and Mr Beattie to the committee to ask them to explain what was said. That is the first issue. We can go down various routes after that. I was reasonably happy with Tricia Marwick's list of people to whom we would like to speak. It may turn out that we do not want to speak to everyone, but we should start from the notion that we do. We need to home in on the statements made by Beattie Media employees and the Beattie organisation and take it from there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18727,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 623484,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Karen that we need to speak to representatives of Beattie Media as a matter of urgency. However, it would be logical first to speak to the journalists who have brought the matter to our attention. We can speak to them on the same day as we speak to the \"lobbyists\". We can tease out some of the issues that—as Karen says—are implied in the transcript.When we call witnesses, we are gathering evidence as we go and we should then move on to check some of the material with those people, such as the special advisers—Brian Fitzpatrick, Chris Winslow and John McLaren—who are mentioned in the transcript. Donald Dewar's head of staff is mentioned and it would be appropriate to talk to him, as well as to Jack McConnell's secretary, Christina Marshall. We should hear from the journalists first, then the lobbyists, then the staff of MSPs and finally the ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 623489,
      "EditedText": "I am not convinced about the staff argument, because no allegations were made against most people. All the transcript says is that somebody \"was at my wedding\". A lot of people were at my wedding. Being at a wedding is not necessarily relevant. I would be happy for us to speak to Christina Marshall, as a specific allegation that we should deal with has been made. The appropriate mechanism is—as Lord James suggested—for somebody to look at the diaries and report back to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 623492,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we decide—along the lines of what has been suggested—that we deal with the evidence from The Observer on Beattie Media. That should frame the terrain in which we are operating. We will want to see the ministers. In general, they have indicated that they wish to be seen. Once we have dealt with the first element of the matter, which is Beattie Media, we should look at the order in which we see people. We do not need to discuss where the investigation will go before we have heard from those people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 623495,
      "EditedText": "I would like to seek authority from the Parliamentary Bureau to appoint a special adviser—to support our current team—who could do precisely what Lord James suggests. I have just been informed that we cannot co-opt anybody on to the committee, but we can request an adviser. I suggest that we seek the authority of the Parliamentary Bureau to appoint a special adviser to the committee to join our team in sifting through the large amount of information that Lord James in particular has indicated will be needed. Does everybody agree?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 623498,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that you reminded me about that, Patricia, as it seems to be of such interest to the wider public. That is absolutely right. I would like to go on record as reminding the committee, the press and public who are watching that if you look through the previous minutes and the Official Report—the equivalent of Hansard—you will see that every member of this committee has committed themselves to openness, accountability and accessibility. Those are the themes that run through the committee. We reserve the right to meet in private in exceptional circumstances. This investigation—and certainly the evidence that is gathered—will be in public view. Is that accepted by everybody?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18727,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 623502,
      "EditedText": "It is important that the information, the correspondence and the relevant extracts from the diaries should be before the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 623503,
      "EditedText": "Indeed, Lord James. So that there is no confusion, let me explain that the purpose of the special adviser leading the clerking team of the Standards Committee into this investigation will be to sift and examine the material and present the material—with the report—to us. I hope that that is clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 623504,
      "EditedText": "We need to give the special adviser a steer about the kind of material that we wish to be collected. To start that process off, I suggest that we need the diaries, particularly Jack McConnell's. We need to see his constituency diaries, his office diaries and his electronic system.If we are talking about undue influence for Beattie Media, we need to see all the invitations that have been received, including those that have been accepted and those that have been rejected. We need to see the advice that was given to other ministers—perhaps by the civil service—before they accepted an invitation. Where did the invitation come from and what were the reasons for it being accepted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 623462,
      "EditedText": "I now open the meeting up to discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18727,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 623465,
      "EditedText": "The video raises some very serious matters, which this committee has a duty to investigate as speedily as possible.First, we should interview Alex Barr and Kevin Reid to ask them about the claims that they make on the video.We should also gather information on diaries—in particular on the diary of Jack McConnell. The transcript raises some serious matters, which it would be improper for this committee not to investigate.For example, we need to tie up advice to ministers—Sam Galbraith, Henry McLeish, and Jackie Baillie—and the invitations and visits that were mentioned. We must ensure that everything was carried out properly and correctly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18727,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 623467,
      "EditedText": "There is a prima facie case for investigation. To encapsulate the video in one sentence: it raises the question of whether a lobby company exercised disproportionate influence over Executive members of the Scottish Parliament and whether there are any grounds for the claims that were made on the video.Wider issues, which we were going to discuss anyway, are also raised, such as whether there should be regulation of lobbyists, whether there should be a code of conduct for lobbyists, and whether there should be a parliamentary commission on lobbying. Those debates and their resolution will take place anyway, but the immediate concern is to deal with this matter quickly and effectively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 623468,
      "EditedText": "I want to support the points made by Karen Gillon and Lord James. The transcript and the video throw up serious issues that need to be considered by the committee and the Parliament. The central issue is whether the company had privileged access to ministers and members of the Scottish Parliament. We need to investigate the matter fully. The committee should examine all the relevant material and hear evidence from everyone who is mentioned in the transcript—all the ministers. We should ask the First Minister to come and speak to us, because he has already conducted his own investigation. We need to find out exactly what that investigation entailed. We need to hear evidence from Beattie Media. I would also like the journalist from The Observer who took part in the sting and the editor of The Observer to give evidence; I want to know what prompted them to carry out such an inquiry. There are many issues that we need to tackle. We must also consider the wider question of lobbying and the Parliament. However, this inquiry hinges on whether a particular company—or any company—has privileged access to ministers and MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 623474,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to do that. As far as I understand it, according to our standing orders—I asked for legal advice on the matter last week—the ministerial code applies and that falls within the remit of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 623475,
      "EditedText": "I take it that the wording of the remit makes it quite clear that it is open to us to make recommendations in due course?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Indeed. I do not think that this would shut out any options. I took the point to be that the committee needed to clarify whether it would consider the ministerial code; my interpretation of our standing orders is that that is the case."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623478",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 623478,
      "EditedText": "Before we discuss the method of the investigation, I want to be sure that all members are happy with the terms of reference."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 623482,
      "EditedText": "I accept that point. We should concentrate on the allegations made by Beattie employees. We also need to find out why the journalists from The Observer decided to act as they did. Did they have information that led them to target Beattie Media rather than another company? Why did they do it? Those are the questions that have not yet been answered. By questioning the journalists, members of the committee might gain a better idea about the direction of the inquiry and what questions they should be asking Beattie Media."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "ID": 2140,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 623487,
      "EditedText": "It has been indicated to us that people have said one thing at one stage and something else at another. It would be appropriate to have people—certainly those that are on the video—on oath. Do other members agree?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623488",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 623488,
      "EditedText": "If time is critical—we all agree that it is—the sequence of witnesses may be a problem. However, we do not know that yet. We should examine why the journalists from The Observer did what they did and consider the lobbyists, staff and finally MSPs and ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623496",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 623496,
      "EditedText": "I will do that. As for the time scale, there is complete agreement around the table that we move swiftly. Time is critical, but the matter of availability comes in—we have to be reasonable. Either the journalists from The Observer and the lobbyists—if we can call them that—could appear before us separately or, ideally, they could appear at the same time. Tricia has suggested that we do that on Friday, as we have the information before us and we have seen the transcripts. We need to move swiftly to question those people in detail. We may be able to announce at the same meeting whether the Parliamentary Bureau has agreed on who will help the team collate all the information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623497",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 623497,
      "EditedText": "I emphasise that one important word is missing from the summing up, which is that we will do this in public, so that we are clear and everyone understands what we are about."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623499",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18727,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 623499,
      "EditedText": "I will ask the Parliamentary Bureau whether we can appoint a special adviser, the idea being that that person will lead the team in sifting through all the technical information that members have requested. That has been minuted. That sift might take some time, but that individual will present a report to the committee and we will move swiftly to interview anybody who has been suggested. I remind everybody that, although we have already suggested who we want to interview, the list is not exhaustive. We will not be hemmed in by anything that we have decided today. We have to see where the investigation takes us. The point of the investigation is that we want to act quickly, openly and effectively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3472
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 623500,
      "EditedText": "For that reason, I suggest that we set ourselves a deadline by which we should at least have completed the gathering of evidence, and a second deadline by which we hope to have reported on our findings. We do not want to run on and on and for public confidence to be diminished."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17631,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 579206,
      "EditedText": "The Forestry Commission briefing paper addresses this issue. The commission is considering preferred routes and rail and sea transport. We need a more in-depth paper to examine the options."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 579209,
      "EditedText": "If we follow Alasdair's suggestion and examine where the timber will be transported to—where it will be dealt with—that will give us a clearer idea of the transport structure that we need to get the timber from A to B."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 579112,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned that there was no regional breakdown of CJD cases in Scotland. That surprises me, given that it is central to the problem. Why is there no such breakdown?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579114",
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      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 579114,
      "EditedText": "My main question concerns comparative risks. Many people who favour lifting the ban say that we run more risk of, for example, having our health damaged by passive smoking, which is legal at the moment. To what extent do you take into account comparative risks when making your recommendations? How does the risk from BSE compare with other public health risks?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 579156,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to second what Mike Rumbles has just said—I noticed that as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17630,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 579158,
      "EditedText": "I hope that I will not get into too much trouble if I say that, although there are not many issues that unite the fishing industry, this is certainly one of them. From media coverage over recent weeks—even just last week—it is evident that the fishing industry is united in its campaign to reverse the boundary change. Given that the committee already has a short investigation into that matter on its agenda, the least that it can do today is commit itself to an investigation in the very near future.We do not know what has been happening in the background. Lewis Macdonald speculates about what might have happened at a meeting between the Secretary of State for Scotland and the fishermen, but we still do not know what took place there. All that we have is a letter from a civil servant, telling us that the Scottish Executive relayed the fishing industry's concerns. We do not know what that means. It would be useful to find out from the minister how he went about relaying the industry's concerns, and to hear evidence from the fishing industry about why it thinks that this is a key issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 579191,
      "EditedText": "The shellfish investigation was useful, because we heard evidence from both of the witnesses and then asked questions of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 579193,
      "EditedText": "That enabled us to take on board what each of them said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 579196,
      "EditedText": "I was suggesting that we follow the same format as we did in the shellfish investigation, when we took evidence from both the witnesses and then asked questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17627,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 579065,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Alex Johnstone): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 579066,
      "EditedText": "Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome you here today. We have an extensive agenda, which begins with the opportunity to welcome Sir David Carter, the chief medical officer, who will give us the latest evidence on beef on the bone.We will be delighted to have members of the Health and Community Care Committee with us today. Mary Scanlon has joined us, and it is possible that others will arrive—certainly one other member is expected. Mary Scanlon is welcome to ask questions, and that offer will be extended to other members of that committee.I invite Sir David Carter to come to the table.We should consider how the remit of this committee applies to Sir David Carter's evidence, which may be largely based on health issues. It is a matter of respect to the Health and Community Care Committee that members of the Rural Affairs Committee realise that our remit and theirs come up against each other on this. We want to be non-confrontational, and where we stray over our remit, it will be a priority that members of the Health and Community Care Committee should be allowed to comment. We have discussed the remit and are all aware of our position.I ask Sir David Carter to present the latest evidence on the ban on beef on the bone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 579070,
      "EditedText": "As I see it, the evidence base has not changed. The backdrop of the BSE epidemic is changing as we speak. I have been given evidence, which I find pleasing and reassuring, that the BSE epidemic is declining. In terms of the risk estimates that are posed by bone marrow dorsal root ganglia, the key issue is how many of the cattle that are incubating BSE could pass it on. We have no evidence that is different from what we had in February, when the advice to Government, framed by my colleague in England, was that the ban should remain in place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 579071,
      "EditedText": "So the evidence has not changed; your English colleague has changed his mind?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 579076,
      "EditedText": "The answer is the same. I stress again that the Oxford estimates are looking at exactly this issue. It is not just the overall number of cases of BSE in the herd that informs those estimates. The research is examining carefully the demography of the herd and the age spectrum of the cattle concerned. The issue about older versus younger cattle is at the heart of the Oxford estimates. The key issue is what the impact of the offspring cull will be on the risk of cattle under 30 months still being out there incubating BSE, and at risk for human consumption.I will give members a figure that I did not mention earlier, which is part of the early digest. In Great Britain, 3,670 calves were born between January 1997 and March 1999—they would be still under 30 months old—to dams in the last six months of the incubation period. The cull will have removed an estimated 50 per cent of those cattle, but there remains a significant area of uncertainty. I return to Alex Fergusson's question, which was essentially, \"How can I look at this evidence base and conclude what I have concluded?\" My answer is that on the retail sale of beef on the bone, my colleagues in Wales and Northern Ireland come to the same conclusion as I do, whereas my colleague in England comes to a different conclusion—although not about beef bones, as there is still agreement on bone marrow. Could Scotland go it alone and say that we will lift the ban here because our numbers are much smaller? Nothing would give me greater pleasure than saying that, but the root difficulty is that when people buy beef from the shops, the source of origin cannot be guaranteed, although we are getting into a stronger position as far as that is concerned. I am well aware of the fact that the beef-on-the-bone ban is another layer of difficulty for the beef industry—I am not talking as a chief medical officer but as someone who lives in Scotland. The best thing that we can do is ensure that beef in Scotland is as wholesome as it can possibly be—that is the best thing that can happen to the beef industry. We are very close to doing that, but I am faced with the difficult question whether I am confident that, by lifting the beef-on-the-bone ban now, we would not reintroduce a significant hazard. I have to say that I do not have that degree of confidence at this moment. The last thing I want to convey is that the matter is decided and that we will not revisit the question. Of course we will—we keep this matter under continual scrutiny. One of the key events this year will be the Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee meeting in November. I hope that the committee will receive a new set of data, informed by more reliable estimates from Oxford, set against a firmer backdrop of what is happening with bovine spongiform encephalopathy and the new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in man. We should not forget that the ban has not yet been in place for two years. If I am to go down in history as the chief medical officer who was criticised, I would rather go down as someone who exercised the precautionary principle for a bit longer than as someone who did something prematurely and unleashed another hazard on the Scottish populace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 579077,
      "EditedText": "I quite understand that response but, in light of the lifting of the beef export ban, my concern is that for some years the general public have had great difficulty believing what politicians say—and politicians rarely agree totally with one another. What worries me now is that our scientists, looking at the same evidence, do not agree. I am worried about the message that that sends out, particularly to potential importers of British beef."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 579081,
      "EditedText": "What statistics are we waiting for? You have said that it will be interesting to see what SEAC says and that you would like all four-year-old cattle to be free of BSE, but that you would not necessarily have to wait until they were to lift the ban."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 579083,
      "EditedText": "SEAC will not get you or us off that hook."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579086",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 579086,
      "EditedText": "Yes. This is a very difficult set of circumstances. I started by saying that no one finds this easy. We can open up this discussion now, when there is still uncertainty, because the evidence base is hardening.This is not an open-and-shut case. That will be a continuing source of difficulty for me, but that is part of my task. I must inform Government what I consider to be the health hazards posed by this set of circumstances. I must again try to frame a view based on the evidence that becomes available at the end of this year."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579087",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 579087,
      "EditedText": "It seems that the bone marrow results were significant in leading to the ban, but those results were the product of one experiment, or one set of experiments.How confident are you in the results of that experiment? Could there have been experimental error? Is that being revisited?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C579089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 579089,
      "EditedText": "I wish to be clear that one of the problems that you have in wrestling with this difficulty is that we do not know the threshold for the dose infectivity, and that we do not know what reinforcing effect even a small amount of additional prion intake might have on individuals. Are we any closer to understanding that from our knowledge of kuru? Is there anything else that might give us clues on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 579090,
      "EditedText": "Again, that is a good line of evidence to pursue: there is evidence from acquired Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease and, in particular, from iatrogenic Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. That refers to cases in which the disease has been transmitted to people through medical procedures. We all know that human growth hormone was infected in the earlier years, and that that transmitted infection from person to person. The evidence suggests that that had a cumulative effect. Nobody knows for sure what the titre of the infecting dose is.I was stressing, perhaps before you joined us, Dr Simpson, that the infecting dose in cattle is as small as 1 g. It may be much smaller for humans: there may be many doses in that 1 g. I was also making the point that the evidence based on people is still nowhere near firm enough. We do not know what the route of transmission is, although we are beginning to suspect what it is. We are not exactly clear about the circumstances under which some people get the disease and others do not. We do not know if children are more susceptible. However, the fact that this epidemic is affecting young people has to give you cause for thought.Those questions are part of a raft of intangibles that we do not have the answer to. We have to underline the precautionary principle in all of this. Because there are so many areas of uncertainty, we have to be on firmer ground than we are on at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 579092,
      "EditedText": "That touches on a vital issue. We eat sheep but do not seem to suffer any adverse consequences from scrapie, which is a disease similar to BSE and has been running for 250 years. Scrapie does not seem to cross the species barrier from sheep to people, but we know that if some scrapie sheep are taken off an area of pasture and a scrapie-free flock are put on that pasture three years later, they will get scrapie. The evidence that I have for the horizontal transmission of BSE in cattle is extremely reassuring: a number of herds were heavily infected by BSE, with more than 50 cases of infection in the early part of the epidemic. Since the feed ban was introduced, there has been no more BSE in those herds. I think that the evidence is persuasive that there is not a third method of spreading BSE from cattle to cattle. My reading of the BSE epidemic is that the food ban has bitten. It is now being enforced, and we can see the epidemic tailing away. The residual uncertainty is the maternal-to-calf transmission. That is what the Oxford data are all about. I am sorry that my answer was a rambling one, but it is no: we are not aware of any other transmission method."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 579094,
      "EditedText": "It appears to be clear from the figures that you quoted that we are—we hope—approaching the tail-end of BSE infectivity. Towards the end of your presentation, you said that the risk is diminishing with time. Is it your expectation that BSE infectivity is likely to cease in a short time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 579095,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is, and we will all be extremely delighted when that happens: I do not need to go on about that.Returning to the point that Mr Morgan raised, the interest in what will happen to three-year-old cattle in 1999 and four-year-old cattle in 2000 is not idle speculation. That will be the crunch time as far as the demise of the BSE epidemic is concerned. Once we get rid of BSE, all this discussion will be unnecessary: we will be able to eat whatever we want because BSE will not be in the beef herd. However, we are not quite at that stage.My position is that just when we are within sight of eliminating the BSE epidemic in cattle, it would be tragic if we allowed any more cases of variant CJD to develop in people. Having got rid of the pool of infectivity in beef cattle, we must do everything we can to ensure that we do not have a pool of infectivity in people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 579099,
      "EditedText": "The CJD surveillance unit operates a strict policy—rightly—of releasing the figures only upon absolute confirmation of the diagnosis. Those figures relate to people who have died.There is a lot of concern about whether we can develop a test for BSE in live cattle. Hopefully, very shortly we will not need one, because there will be no BSE in cattle. The emphasis now is on developing a test for variant CJD in people. At present, the only test that is available is to examine nervous tissue, which essentially means a post mortem diagnosis, although there is evidence that biopsy of the tonsil is a means of detecting prion. Whether that tells one about the patient having CJD is another question.At present, we do not have a totally reliable test for the diagnosis of variant CJD in life. If we did—this would be relevant to the Health and Community Care Committee—it would throw what we are doing, and what we will have to do with regard to variant CJD in people, into a more rational perspective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 579100,
      "EditedText": "Mike Rumbles has asked me if you can confirm that the figures for CJD that you quoted were UK rather than Scottish figures?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 579107,
      "EditedText": "As long as the uncertainty persists. The years that have gone by since that requirement was introduced have given reassurance in that we are still talking about scrapie in sheep, not about BSE affecting the sheep flock. If we were talking about BSE in sheep, we would be having a much more sombre discussion today. The years that have gone by have suggested that there has not been back transmission of BSE to sheep. That will come up for scrutiny, as all those issues will. When we get to the point of lifting the beef-on-the-bone ban, a series of hurdles will be taken down in the process. All these matters will be subject to reappraisal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C579108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 579108,
      "EditedText": "I have some figures, which I dare say most people have, from the National Farmers Union. I was alarmed to learn that, this year, there are 25 cases of BSE in Scotland and 44 in the Republic of Ireland. Does it concern you that the ban does not apply to other countries, where—according to the figures—there is a greater risk?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 579111,
      "EditedText": "I would like to think so. We have faced up to the BSE crisis in a big way. We had no alternative; we had to take it seriously. We are still doing so, and that is the right position. Some people would argue that, because of the concern, British beef must be safer than beef from elsewhere in the EU. That is a legitimate argument. However, the relative position is of no great consequence to me as long as I remain concerned that there is a risk to human health in this country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 579119,
      "EditedText": "We are slightly at cross-purposes; I may have expressed myself badly. The human form of BSE, new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, showed a peak last year. That is not directly attributable to anything that has happened with cattle recently. The surge merely reinforces the fact that we should be cautious about making far-reaching predictions based on small data sets. Arguably, the imposition or otherwise of the beef ban would have been irrelevant to the cases of new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease that we are dealing with now. Everything that we know about the disease's incubation period tells us that the people who are suffering now contracted the disease ten years ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 579127,
      "EditedText": "I want to try and nail you down ever so slightly. You have used phrases such as \"we are not a million miles away\" and \"early\". You said earlier that relatives are of little consequence compared to absolutes. I suspect that that is the case for the farming community. Early can mean a lot of things. Have you any idea when we can seriously examine with any reasonable prospect of success the possibility of an extension or a lifting of the over-30-months slaughter scheme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 579134,
      "EditedText": "We have an apology from Mike Rumbles, who has been called back to his office and asked us to start without him. He hopes to be back as soon as possible, as does Lewis Macdonald, who I understand is currently being interviewed outside."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 579136,
      "EditedText": "I am rather concerned about recommendation 2, which concerns the time scale. By the time we appoint an adviser, we will be into January. We will lose some time in January anyway because of holidays, and that limits the time available to us. It will be difficult to write a report and bring it back to the committee before March. Eight weeks seems like a very short time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 579139,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on the time scale?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 579141,
      "EditedText": "I always hoped that the committee would report at various stages within a longer time scale, before producing a final report to wrap up the issue.A degree of flexibility is—Interruption."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 579143,
      "EditedText": "After my phone rang during the previous committee meeting, I left mine in the office today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 579152,
      "EditedText": "A delegation from the fishing fraternity attended an early meeting of the Rural Affairs Committee. Members of that delegation were in do doubt that they had concerns about the new boundary, particularly as they had little knowledge that it was to be introduced. They left the meeting with the impression that we supported them in their attempts to have the boundary redrawn to its original position. At that time, we took the view—and I certainly said it at the meeting—that we should lend them every support.This was one of the first pieces of legislation to come before the Scottish Parliament and was not even discussed before its implementation. It will be a test of the Scottish Parliament's credibility if we let this slip. The committee should do everything in its power to engage others in the debate so that, eventually, the original boundary is restored."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 579153,
      "EditedText": "I disagree with a couple of those points. It is not true that that legislation came before the Scottish Parliament. The matter was debated in the Scottish Parliament and, as we noted at our previous discussion, the outcome of that debate was to support the order that the House of Commons had passed. I also think—the convener will correct me if I am wrong—that the meeting to which Mr Munro referred was a meeting of MSPs, many of whom had an interest in rural affairs, rather than a meeting of the Rural Affairs Committee. The only consideration of the matter in this committee took place on 29 June.Alasdair said that he felt that the response from the department was unsatisfactory, but the minister—as we requested—has progressed the matter and has met the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. The secretary of state has also met the Scottish Fishermen's Federation and Hamish Morrison from the federation has been kind enough to share with me copies of his correspondence that arose from that meeting.The federation does not appear to have met the secretary of state's request for it to indicate areas of material disadvantage arising from the order that would cause him to review the application of the order. If committee members have information to the contrary, I would be interested to know about it.The federation appears still to be seeking reassurance on several issues, particularly those arising from debris from abandoned installations, of which there are three in the area in question. Those concerns are significant to the federation.With regard to the interests of this committee and the Parliament, I do not see what further discussion would achieve. It is quite clear from the evidence before us that the matter has been explored in some detail by the rural affairs department and by the secretary of state at Westminster. There is nothing further to be done in terms of influencing the secretary of state on the proper place for that order.I am not suggesting that we cease to have any interest in the matter, but at this stage, the federation is putting forward nothing with which the Parliament can materially assist."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 579155,
      "EditedText": "My colleague Euan Robson, MSP for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, whose constituency is affected directly by the issue, has asked me to point out to the committee that there is a substantial inaccuracy in the letter from the assistant fisheries secretary. The letter says:\"The Parliament passed a motion on 3 June 1999 supporting the Order\".It did not. The Parliament passed a motion on 3 June 1999 noting the order. We want to put the official who wrote the letter right on that important point. The Parliament did not support the order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 579157,
      "EditedText": "The official's point might be that we turned down the opportunity to reject the order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 579166,
      "EditedText": "This has nothing to do with fisheries strategy. It is a totally different issue, and is not strategic in that sense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 579172,
      "EditedText": "Are we asking them to come here?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 579174,
      "EditedText": "To respond to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 579175,
      "EditedText": "Yes, to respond to us following the questioning of those concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 579177,
      "EditedText": "Would it be fair to say that having the investigation in that format would mean asking each side to present their views? If so, we would then more fully understand the matter and act accordingly, should we see fit.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 579195,
      "EditedText": "What are we saying about the shellfish issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 579203,
      "EditedText": "It certainly does. Should we ask for information on this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 579204,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Alex. He mentioned Argyll, but the north-west Highlands and the north suffer tremendously from this problem. There is an on-going debate—a battle, in fact—between the local authority roads department and the Forestry Commission. To extend the lifetime of rural roads, the local authority is almost threatening to impose weight restrictions. As members know, weight limits keep going up. The current legal weight is something like 44 tonnes, but many roads were built to take a horse and cart and cannot withstand such a heavy tonnage.To be fair to the Forestry Commission, I know that it realises that there is a big problem when timber matures and has to be harvested. It has come round to the idea that it should be required to expend some of its budget on improving fragile roads. I am sure that its funds are restricted, like those of any other body. The debate is on-going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17631,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 579210,
      "EditedText": "As I was saying, many local authorities in rural areas are conscious of the situation and are considering measures to address it. We hear constantly about the possibilities of moving the transport of timber from road to rail and from rail to ship. Those are excellent ideas, but the timber must be taken to the port or railhead, and for that purpose a road is needed. The problem does not go away."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wildlife Management (Video)",
      "HeadingID": 17632,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 579218,
      "EditedText": "If somebody took it away for the recess, we could be in trouble. I will have to arrange the process informally. I will try to draw up some kind of rota, so that as many of us as possible will be able to see it in as short a time as possible.We have come to the end of the agenda. If members of the committee have no further comments on any issue that has been raised, I will bring the meeting to a close. Thank you for your attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 579169,
      "EditedText": "Lewis said that the fishing industry might think that there are bigger issues, but it thinks that this issue is urgent and wants it dealt with as soon as possible. It is committing funds and resources to campaigning on this issue. All the fishing organisations that make up the federation are united on that. It is not just the industry that is concerned; the fishing communities have also voiced their worries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 579176,
      "EditedText": "I, too, am willing to offer a compromise. I believe that Lewis's suggestion is credible. In our investigation into the shellfish issue, we had an array of representatives from across the industry and I think that that was productive. If we proceed along the same lines, with representatives from the ministry—preferably the minister—and from the federation, that would be adequate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 579189,
      "EditedText": "Will the format of the investigation be the same as that for the shellfish investigation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 579140,
      "EditedText": "Could we ask for an interim report at some point? If we did that, we could gauge whether more time is needed than has been set out. If we do this, we must do it properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
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    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter (Chief Medical Officer for Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 579067,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I welcome the opportunity to be here today and will be very happy to answer any questions. I am sensitive to the fact that this issue crosses rural affairs and health. It is difficult to deal with one without touching on aspects of the other.The fact that we are here at all reflects the difficulty that one has to define areas of certainty in the current debate about the beef-on-the-bone ban and the safety of beef in this country. One of our continuing difficulties is that there are still areas in which we do not have hard evidence on which to base advice to Government and Parliament. With every month and year that go by, some of those gaps are being filled in, but it is important to realise that there are still major areas of uncertainty.I will not rehearse the entire BSE epidemic with you—I realise that you have been briefed and are well aware of the background—but I will touch on one or two salient points. We are all aware that BSE became apparent in 1986. You will be well aware that it rapidly became clear that this was a major epidemic, at the height of which there were 36,000 confirmed cases a year of cattle with BSE. I stress that those are confirmed cases of BSE, and that that number will be an underestimate. It could be argued that Scotland was slower to be affected than other parts of the United Kingdom. It is also clear that the magnitude of the epidemic has been less in Scotland than in other parts of the UK. About 175,000 cattle with confirmed BSE have been slaughtered. The peak of the epidemic in Great Britain was in 1992. The peak in Scotland was slightly later, in 1993. To nail down a fact, I will say that, as far as we can tell, at the peak of the epidemic in Scotland, the number of affected cattle was 2,208. Since then, there has been a decline in the epidemic, which has been smoother in Scotland than in the rest of Great Britain. In the past few years in Scotland, the number of confirmed cases has gone from 302 to 141 to 85, and the latest figure that we have for this year is 25, but that figure is likely to increase once the final accounting for the year has been done. The epidemic in Scotland is halving year on year.However, I stress that there has not been a smooth decline in the rest of the UK. In some parts of the UK, there have been years in which the numbers seem almost to have plateaued rather than continued to decline. Why has there been a decline? The main reason is the ban on the feeding of mammalian carcases and protein derived from them to other farm animals and, in particular, to ruminants. That ban was introduced in 1988 but, in retrospect, it is clear that it was never adequately enforced. The date that most people regard as the clean-feed watershed is 1 August 1996.The evidence this year has been reassuring. The Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food has looked in great detail at the degree to which the various bans have been enforced. Although there have been some violations—if you wish, we can talk about them later—we can be reassured that the ban on feed derived from mammalian carcases came into effect with vigour on 1 August 1996.If the ban is effective, why has the BSE epidemic not melted away? As you are well aware, the explanation is that there is a second way in which cattle can get BSE. In the past, most of them got it by eating dead cattle. We now recognise that BSE can also be passed from cow to calf—so-called vertical transmission. The risk of that happening is rated to be about 10 per cent. That is important as it is uncertainty in that area that fuels the uncertainty over whether the beef-on-the-bone ban needs to stay.I should stress that an additional measure was put in place: from August last year, there was a voluntary cull of any calf whose mother was known to have developed BSE subsequently. With effect from January, that has become compulsory. If a cow develops BSE, or is found to have BSE at the time of slaughter, its calves are culled automatically. I find that reassuring, as it will be a significant step in further eradication of the BSE epidemic in cattle.I should also point out the importance of the safeguards, over and above that, which are in place. Members will be aware of the ban on specified risk material: brains and spinal cord, for example, are taken out in slaughterhouses. Another key measure has been the introduction of the over-30-months rule, which means that cattle older than 30 months cannot be used for human consumption. Members are probably aware that measures have been introduced recently to increase the confidence with which one can say \"That cow is indeed 30 months old\". In the past, people have relied on dentition, but the ear-tags scheme and the passport scheme will improve our ability to tell the age of a cow at the time of slaughter.What is the basis of the over-30-months rule? Why was 30 months selected? Forgive me if I go into a little detail, but I think that it is critical. In a series of so-called pathogenesis experiments, cattle were deliberately infected with BSE by being given the brains of infected cattle to eat. Those cattle were then sacrificed at varying intervals. Material that had been taken from those sacrificed cattle was injected into mice, in a bioassay, and the experiment was continued to discover which mice developed BSE; in other words, which parts of the cattle had been affected by BSE at the time of slaughter.The infecting dose that is needed for such experiments is 1 g of infected cattle brain—not a huge dose, as it is a very infective disease. I shall inform members of the committee which parts of cows become affected by BSE, and, in turn, become infective. The small intestine becomes infective at six months; the brain and spinal cord become infective at 32 months; clinical signs—when people notice that there is something wrong with a cow, as it is staggering and manifesting the signs of mad cow disease—become apparent at around 35 months.Recently, evidence became available that suggested that dorsal root ganglion and bone marrow also become infected. Dorsal root ganglion becomes infected at 32 months and bone marrow, in one experiment, became infected at 38 months. I would be happy to enter into details about dorsal root ganglia if members so wish. As the nerves leave and enter the spinal column, there is a swelling on the nerves that is called a dorsal root ganglion. It is an extension of the spinal cord.I stress that those experimental conditions in which cattle were given BSE-infected material to eat do not necessarily throw the light that could be hoped for on cow-to-calf transmission. We are still not certain what the basis is for cow-to-calf transmission, whether it happens while the calf is still in the womb, at the time of birth, or subsequently. There is no evidence to suggest that milk is responsible, but we still do not know the nature of cow-to-calf transmission. I suggest that, although those pathogenesis experiments are very important, there is still significant uncertainty over the relationship between them and the reality, on the farm, of the transmission of BSE from cow to calf. Another vital point must be made. I said earlier that those experiments work by injecting bits of sacrificed cattle into mice, then studying the mice to see whether they develop BSE. In doing that, a species barrier is being crossed, and we do not know whether that is a significant barrier; in other words, whether mice are less sensitive to BSE than other cattle would be, were the species barrier not crossed. I hasten to add that experiments that have taken mice out of the loop are now in train—transmission experiments in which the transmission is from cow to cow. However, we still do not have the data from those experiments that would throw light on the issue that we are here to discuss today.Let me fast-forward to the deliberations of the Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee, the main committee of experts that advises the Government. The key meeting was that of 2 December 1997, at which SEAC was informed of the infectivity of dorsal root ganglia and bone marrow, and was asked to form a view about how significant a hazard that posed to human health. As the committee is probably aware, SEAC calculated that there was a 95 per cent chance that no case of variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease would develop as a consequence of exposure to dorsal root ganglia and bone marrow, and a 5 per cent chance that one case would develop. However, SEAC's range of risk ranged from no cases to 10 cases. Those were cases not of infected cattle, but of human disease. It was that risk estimate that led to the decision to introduce the Beef Bones Regulations, which came into force on 16 December 1997. That is the ban that we are discussing today.SEAC revisited the issue in November 1998. As on previous occasions, its deliberations were informed by the estimates of a group in Oxford. The Oxford group—of which, I am sure, members have heard—is led by Professor Anderson and is based at the Wellcome Trust Centre for the Epidemiology of Infectious Disease. It is a world-rated group, which is universally regarded as excellent. The Oxford group has been trying to define the effect of the offspring cull on the number of cattle that are incubating BSE and could get into the food chain, because they are younger than 30 months. That is the key information that SEAC has been using.In November last year, the Oxford group estimated that the total number of cattle incubating BSE that would be slaughtered in 1999 for human consumption was 43. The range of estimate was between 25 and 66. Critically, the number of cattle that might have developed BSE within a year was rated at between one and two, with the range being nought to five.I should stress again that SEAC was concerned that all the evidence to date had been based on mouse bioassay, and that there was uncertainty about the effects of the species barrier on sensitivity. It is quite possible that some of the other 43 cattle would have a degree of infectivity too low to be detected in the mouse bioassay. Furthermore, with every year that goes by, the groups conducting research in this area are better placed to take back bearings on the information that has become available during the previous year. Looking back, the Oxford group came to the conclusion that its estimates of the previous year had been underestimates. That indicates that there is still a great deal of uncertainty.SEAC concluded that it was\"still not possible to predict with any degree of precision the risks to human health from dorsal root ganglia and bone marrow\".In fairness, I should say that SEAC was reasonably convinced that the risk would be smaller than it had been a year earlier. I share that conviction, as the risk is undoubtedly diminishing with time. SEAC felt that the risk posed by bone marrow was likely to be very small; I agree with that. It also concluded that the risk posed by dorsal root ganglia was very small—much smaller than it had been at the height of the BSE epidemic, back in 1989 and 1990. I must agree with that, too.I want to say something about the human version of the condition, variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob's disease. We cannot see BSE in cattle and the beef bones ban in context unless we understand the thinking on new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob's disease in people. We know that this human form of BSE is caused by the same prion that causes BSE in cattle. There is compelling evidence that there has been transmission from cattle to person by eating infected material.The disease first became apparent in 1995. It was first reported in 1996. I want to pay tribute to the National CJD Surveillance Unit in Edinburgh: Professor Will and Dr Ironside have been key figures in defining the disease and monitoring its progress. In 1995 there were three cases, then 10 cases in 1996, 10 cases in 1997 and 16 cases in 1998. There have been seven cases so far this year, the total number of cases being 46. All the indications are that we have not seen the last of CJD this year and that the number of cases will increase. We have to wait until next year before we can say with any certainty how many cases occurred this year.It is important to recognise that there was a significant alarm at the end of last year; of the 16 cases that were reported last year, nine occurred in the last quarter. There was anxiety that we were witnessing a sudden take-off in the epidemic growth curve of variant CJD in people. So far this year, the news is better than we had feared: the number of cases has fallen back to its previous level. However, no one can tell with any certainty the extent of the epidemic in people. We can say that there are a whole host of things that we do not know. We do not know the infecting dose for people, the effect of the species barrier or why some people are more susceptible than others.Is the disease peculiar to young people? Most people suffering from the disease have been in the 19 to 40 age group; the oldest person was 48 at the time that the disease became manifest. There is an important underlying issue. We still do not understand the incubation period. If a person contracts the disease by eating infected beef, how long is it before the disease becomes apparent?There are other forms of spongiform encephalopathy. One of those is a disease called kuru, which occurred in Papua New Guinea through cannibalism—eating the brains of dead people. In that situation we can say with some certainty when the index event occurred and we can then define the incubation period. We know that it can be as short as four-and-a-half years, but we also know that it can probably be as long as 40 years. The best estimate at present is that the mean incubation period for such diseases, including BSE and new variant CJD, is of the order of 10 to 15 years. If one argues that the BSE epidemic began to gather momentum in the late 1980s, peaked in the 1990s and that that was the maximum period of risk, it is clear that there is still some way to go before we reach the peak of the epidemic in people. Current estimates are almost meaningless because we do not have a satisfactory evidence base. Estimates range from a few hundred cases to several million. We simply do not know. It is all very well to say that that the health risk posed by material currently in the food chain is small compared to the one we faced in 1988 to 1999, but we still do not know how large the risk was in that period. My main message is that the BSE epidemic is subsiding. That delights me, as it should everyone. However, it has not gone away entirely and a significant area of residual uncertainty remains. To my mind, the evidence base is nowhere near secure enough for me to reintroduce a potential health hazard to the human food chain.I am sure that we will debate the size of the risk. As I said earlier, although the huge wave of risk was posed in the earlier period of the BSE epidemic in cattle, we are not fully out of the woods. With every month that goes by, the evidence base firms up. Another year of statistics on BSE in cattle is almost completed and we are awaiting this year's Oxford estimates, about which there has been a lot of speculation. Oxford is reluctant to give estimates until the data have been worked through. The beef herd in this country has changed its demography. I understand that the estimates from Oxford will be available to SEAC at its meeting on 29 and 30 November.If we and SEAC have framed our response to the beef-on-the-bone question in relation to those estimates it would be indefensible not to wait for them this year, particularly when uncertainty has surrounded those estimates in the past. I would be reassured if the estimates revealed an absence of BSE in three-year-old cattle in the year 1999-2000. An absence of BSE in four-year-old cattle from mid-2000 would be convincing. However, I hasten to add that the lifting of the beef-on-the-bone ban does not necessarily need to wait until that time.At the end of August, it seemed to me that the evidence that had been used to frame the ban had not changed significantly, certainly not from the evidence that we had in January and February of this year. I felt that we needed to take account of the data maturing this year, particularly the Oxford estimates.In this month's debate, nobody has recommended lifting the beef bones ban. It is important to be clear about that. All the chief medical officers in Britain believe that the beef bones ban has to remain in place. All but the chief medical officer in England believe that, until we have further information, the ban on retail sale of beef on the bone should also remain in place—not just because of dorsal root ganglia but because of the anxieties about bone marrow, which is used in stocks, soups, gravy and sauces. Consumer choice is not a relevant factor in dealing with bone marrow in those products.I apologise if I have gone on longer than you would have liked, but I felt that it was important to outline the evidence base as well as possible."
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  {
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      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Thank you very much.I take this opportunity to welcome Mrs Margaret Smith, Dr Richard Simpson and Mrs Margaret Ewing, who came in at the start of Sir David Carter's speech. For their benefit, I will say that I intend to include all members who are present in the discussion. I will permit members to pursue lines of questioning until they are satisfied that they have got the information that they wanted.It is only fair that, since Mike Rumbles originally proposed that Sir David Carter come to the committee, he should begin the questioning."
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  {
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 579072,
      "EditedText": "You would have to ask him that. We are looking at the same evidence base. Neither I nor my colleagues in Wales and Northern Ireland have any evidence that is different from that available to the CMO in England.The data that I have given are collated on a UK basis, although for the incidence of BSE in cattle they can be broken down and the Scottish figures can be taken out. The figures that I gave for all the other issues are for the UK."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 579073,
      "EditedText": "From the statistics that you produced, it strikes me that the problem is much greater south of the border. I am trying to understand the logic. It seems illogical that the CMO for England—where the crisis is bigger—has taken a significantly different view from yours, north of the border where the crisis is not so great."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 579079,
      "EditedText": ", In his report of January this year, Professor Donaldson said:\"It is important to recognise that a decision to lift the ban is a different order of public health intervention than one to put a ban in place.\"I think I understand what he is saying. Is he really saying that if we were in this situation without a ban, we would not be thinking of imposing one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 579082,
      "EditedText": "The main advice to Government on spongiform encephalopathies in general—BSE being one of the diseases in that group—has come from SEAC, which advises not only on the risks posed by beef in the food chain, but on person-to-person risks from those diseases.Having heeded the advice of SEAC—which is expert in the area—on framing the advice to Government at the end of 1997, and on reassessment at the end of 1998, it seems to me that we should at least hear what it has to say at the end of 1999. We know that what it will say will be informed by the estimates from Oxford, which are based on the most recent assessment of the demography of the beef herd throughout the UK and of the risks that are posed.I could be sitting here in a different scenario—the committee could be asking how, when I have listened to SEAC's advice until now, can it be possible that I am now not listening to it. SEAC says that it is still not possible to predict with any degree of precision the risk to public health, so the committee could be asking me why I am advocating a lifting of the ban before the most current advice is available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 579084,
      "EditedText": "No, it will not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 579088,
      "EditedText": "It is one set of results, and a number of people said that it could be a rogue result. They asked whether bone marrow suddenly becomes infected at 38 months. I said that dorsal root ganglia are infected at 32 months and that infection can occur at other points in the chain. There is stronger evidence in those experiments of dorsal root ganglia being infected. I do not, however, think that that can be swept aside. Because of the uncertainties that I mentioned a few minutes ago, all of the experiments are small-number. They have all involved mouse bioassay. We are still uncertain of the sensitivity of the experiments. If you are asking me if there are any other bits of information that you would like, one of them is the results of the cow-to-cow experiments that are currently running. We are beginning to get results now. You are right: much hinges on the extent to which bone marrow is truly infected. You cannot ignore, however, the fact that infectivity has been demonstrated. It is a hard call, but you cannot say that you like this bit of evidence but will ignore that bit. I think that we need more evidence—and we are in the process of getting it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C579093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 579093,
      "EditedText": "That was very helpful. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 579096,
      "EditedText": "I wish to pursue that point. What you said with regard to the incubation period of CJD suggested that we are still on the upward slope of CJD infectivity. In your estimation, is it logical to assume that the figure of seven cases for this year so far—if it is not a statistical blip—is likely to increase before the year's figures are complete, and that, given the incubation periods, we should realistically expect a larger number of cases in the coming three or four years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 579097,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that, and it grieves me to say so. Like most people who study the figures regularly, I was deeply concerned by the sudden surge of nine cases in the last quarter of last year. The fact that the number has fallen to only seven cases this year—if I may use only, because any case of new variant CJD is a tragedy—does not mean that we should be complacent. That number does not signify to me that the number of cases is tailing off. All that we know about the incubation periods of these types of diseases—not just kuru, but acquired CJD in people—suggests that the mean incubation period will be 10 years or more. If the height of infectivity was in the earlier years of the BSE epidemic in cattle, and that must be the prediction, we are going to see, sadly, many more cases of variant CJD in people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C579098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 579098,
      "EditedText": "I wish to ask a supplementary on that point. You quoted numbers of three, 10, 10, 16 and seven, with regard to new variant CJD. Are those the numbers of deaths, post mortem findings or early diagnoses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 579101,
      "EditedText": "They were UK figures. Rightly, the CJD surveillance unit does not break down the figures. Until now, when there was a relatively small number of cases, there was a desire to respect confidentiality and not to have people speculating about what was going on in specific neighbourhoods. Although we do not get a breakdown by region of the United Kingdom, we should not assume that Scotland is immune to this disease. We know that it is not. Neither do I have any evidence that it is particularly prevalent in Scotland. I have not seen a breakdown of figures by region of the UK, because there is not such a breakdown. We have had cases in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C579104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 579104,
      "EditedText": "I thank the Rural Affairs Committee for allowing members of the Health and Community Care Committee to come today. I am grateful for the opportunity to ask this question. What genuine scientific evidence is there—or was there ever—to justify the continuation of the requirement to split ewe carcases in order to remove the spinal column? That has resulted in the destruction of the lucrative trade in surplus UK ewes to France and other European countries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 579105,
      "EditedText": "I was not prepared for that question. As I recall, the evidence is that there is no question that scrapie in sheep is a disease that affects the central nervous system, brain and spinal column. The difficulty was that there was, and still is, considerable speculation about whether BSE in cattle arose because they were eating the brain, spinal column and nerve material of sheep—that somehow the prion protein had been changed in its transit from sheep and had given rise to BSE in cattle. Conversely, there was anxiety that BSE would affect the sheep flock through the same circular process. If that were the case, there would have been no logic in ensuring that sheep brain was not available in the food chain without ensuring that the spinal cord was also not in the food chain. Brain would have been a major health hazard, and we know that spinal cord is just as infective as brain. That was the reasoning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C579106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 579106,
      "EditedText": "Do you still feel that that reasoning is justified?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C579110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 579110,
      "EditedText": "We have discussed the differences between you and the chief medical officer in England. Are you satisfied that your counterparts in other European countries are analysing the scientific evidence as rigorously as we in this country are?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 579113,
      "EditedText": "It is for the reasons that I outlined earlier. While the epidemic was still very small, there was a desire to respect confidentiality and families' sensitivity. The National CJD Surveillance Unit has not been putting cases into the public arena. The agreement has been that whenever someone dies with confirmed variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease that will be announced.We have concentrated on variant CJD, but that is only one form of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease that affects people. Figures for cases of classical CJD have been made available. However, until now CJD has been rare; the incidence of classical CJD stands at about one in a million people. That is another reason to be nervous about breaking down the figures. We do not want people reading something into the fact that there are five cases in one place as opposed to seven in another, when we do not have a database big enough to allow us to make any sense of such differences."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 579116,
      "EditedText": "I am puzzled about the relevance of the number of cases of new variant CJD. We all know how tragic that is, but I wonder how relevant it is to your decision about when the ban will be lifted. There is the possibility that that number may peak some years hence. We do not know when that will be. Does that mean that there has to be a total elimination of BSE before you say that we can lift the beef-on-the-bone ban? What you have said is that you do not know how little BSE you need to generate X number of cases of new variant CJD."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 579117,
      "EditedText": "You are absolutely right. I am not saying that we have to wait until we have seen what happens to new variant CJD in people before we lift the beef-on-the-bone ban. As I said a number of times, each month and each year that goes by gives us a better sense of what these epidemics are doing—it is an informative backdrop to the decisions that we are trying to frame about the immediate issue, which is the beef-on-the-bone ban. While it is an interesting backdrop, in the foreground, if you like, are the firm estimates of what is happening to BSE in cattle and what we know about the impact of the offspring cull on cattle under 30 months that are eligible for slaughter for human consumption. We need more information on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 579118,
      "EditedText": "Sir David, I was very impressed with your presentation. I listened with bated breath to everything you said, until you started talking about smoking and then I began to drift. You mentioned the statistics and the incidence of BSE recorded over the past few years. You said that last year the incidence of BSE peaked towards the latter quarter of the year. In your opinion, does that have any significance in terms of the fact that most cattle are sold through the mart in the last quarter of the year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 579120,
      "EditedText": "It is clear that the SEAC meeting and the Oxford report will be important to an assessment of the research information. I would be interested to learn more about the research that is being done; for instance, whether it is purely statistical. You mentioned information coming in from mouse bioassays and attempts to set up a cow bioassay. Presumably, that work will continue after BSE ceases to be a problem. Is there any evidence that the infective agents could affect another species?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 579121,
      "EditedText": "The Oxford group is provided with data on the demography—the age structure—of the beef herd, set against which it has data on the latest culls. In addition, it has the information that has become available about the confirmation of BSE in cattle that are slaughtered. One of the things that has reassured me in the past year is that people have examined cattle that were slaughtered as part of the over-30-months scheme and have found only a small number of cattle—perhaps only 0.3 per cent—in which BSE was present but was not manifest in life.That is the sort of information that Oxford is using in its model. Like all such models, it is fragile and is only as good as the estimates that are fed into it. Each year, we get a back bearing: Oxford looks at what it predicted for the previous year in the light of what happened and finds out if it was right or wrong. I made the point in my presentation that Oxford feels that it underestimated the number of cattle that carry the disease.To nail down the cattle to cattle thing, it is now easier to do pathogenesis experiments because we do not have to rely on a bioassay. In the past, cattle had to be killed and material from their organs inoculated into mice. It took a year after that to see any results. Now, the same thing can be achieved with histopathology.You asked about the implications of all that for the broader biology. We now know that there are transmissible spongiform encephalopathies other than BSE and scrapie. We know that quite exotic animals such as kudu suffer from such diseases. We know that cats can also suffer from spongiform encephalopathy.Ever since Creutzfeldt and Jakob first described the disease in the 1920s, we have known that we have a sporadic form of CJD in the human population. The disease might have been present for millennia, but it was rare; it only came through one time in a million. The incidence of CJD in people may well fall back to that level. That is why the discussion is important. We must ask whether we have magnified something over the last 10 to 15 years, to make it suddenly not such a rare disease.It is reassuring to note that, if we take the overall incidence of all forms of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, we are still not radically out of line with other countries, even allowing for the fact that there have been around 10 cases a year of the new variant CJD. We will have to wait and see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 579124,
      "EditedText": "Have we come to the point at which there are no more questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 579125,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask Sir David about the over-30-months scheme, which he mentioned several times. Last January, we reached a point when any cattle entering the food chain would have been born and reared in a post-BSE regulatory period. Given the fact that it is eight months since we passed that point, do you see a time approaching when you might be able to recommend extending the 30-months scheme to 32 or 33 months? That would be hugely beneficial to those farming Scottish natural breeds, in which the cases of BSE have been almost infinitesimal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 579126,
      "EditedText": "If one assumes that the clean-feed watershed was 1 August 1996, we are now 30 months beyond that. We are reasonably sure—we have evidence from various surveys conducted in the last two years—that the bans are being enforced and so we can be secure in the knowledge that cattle are no longer contracting BSE because we are feeding them infected material. That is great.The figure of 30 months was not quite empirical, but was plucked out of the air in the light of the experimental data that I went over earlier. There is a margin of error. As more time goes by and as more information becomes available, we will be able to make non-empirical judgments about such matters. I would predict that the 30-months scheme is one of the only things that will be considered and we are not a million miles away from that.No one has tried to nail me down by saying, \"If this happens, will you say that we can do that on 1 December?\" You have given me that leeway, but I am sure that you recognise the difficulty. I would love to see the beef-on-the-bone ban revoked, but that will not be the victory that everyone wants. It is one skirmish in a much bigger campaign to get our entire beef industry back on a secure footing.This is gratuitous and perhaps I should not say it: I have not had any hate mail over the beef-on-the-bone ban. Laughter. I may get some now. It has been very salutary to me. Most people recognise that the big prize is to get back to a wholesome industry in which all the ifs, buts and maybes become immaterial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 579130,
      "EditedText": "This will be gratuitous and I know that I should not say it, but I have enjoyed this afternoon very much indeed. I am grateful to you, convener, and to the committee for the measured way in which business has been conducted.I take great heart from that and, as I said, it has been a pleasure for me to appear here. I am delighted that we can share the evidence base. We may disagree about bits of it, but this seems to me to be a very good way of doing business. I am very grateful to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 579131,
      "EditedText": "I propose that we suspend the committee for five minutes so that those who wish to leave can do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 579132,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 579133,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 579135,
      "EditedText": "We now move to item 2 on the agenda. For a while now we have been working on a proposal for a report into the impact of changing employment patterns in rural communities. The document outlining the proposal shows a structure according to which we could conduct the inquiry. Although the document has been put forward in my name, I have to acknowledge the fact that members of the clerking team have been very much involved in its preparation. It has been circulated at various stages to certain members of the committee who have been interested in the issue in the past. The proposal is that we proceed with the inquiry by means of the structure set out in the document.There are five specific recommendations that we have to address. The first is:\"The terms of reference of the inquiry, as outlined in this paper.\"Do members feel that that is an appropriate structure to go ahead with?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 579137,
      "EditedText": "That time scale is the slowest one that we would expect. If we can move faster than that, we will try to do so. I expect the adviser to be appointed before Christmas. There would not be much point in starting the public work before Christmas; that would probably happen after the holiday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 579138,
      "EditedText": "I am not looking for speed. I would rather do things properly than rush them. However, I am concerned that, if he or she is not in place until January, the adviser would be unable to do the work in the period that is identified in the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 579142,
      "EditedText": "I hope that that is not my phone ringing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 579146,
      "EditedText": "That largely covers recommendation 2 on my list: \"The outline timetable for the inquiry.\" We now move to recommendation 3, which is:\"To refer the proposal to appoint a specialist adviser to the Parliamentary Bureau for approval, with a view to issuing appropriate directions to the Parliamentary Corporation on the formal appointment.\"We will have to go through the procedure of finding an appropriate special adviser to deal with the matter, but would it be in order to refer that proposal at this stage?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 579148,
      "EditedText": "The fifth and last recommendation is:\"To ask the Scottish Executive for an initial response on current policies and views relating to the inquiry, to accompany the SPICe scoping report for consideration by the committee on 2 November.\"Do we accept the paper and its recommendations?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 579160,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Euan Robson, who arrived during our discussion. If he wishes to contribute an opinion, he is welcome to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C579161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 579161,
      "EditedText": "The note that the committee received from the Scottish Executive suggests that the Parliament approved the order. I do not recall the exact phraseology and have only just had the opportunity to read the letter, but I do not think that that was what Parliament did on 3 June. The Parliament simply noted the text of the order and made a number of comments relevant to it. To imply in the letter that Parliament accepted the order is not consistent with the text of the motion as amended on 3 June. The committee might want to correct that wrong impression on the part of the Executive. That is all that I wanted to say at this stage. Thank you for the opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17630,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 579164,
      "EditedText": "Would you like to say anything else, Lewis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 579165,
      "EditedText": "There may be some merit in that. I do not think that many people in the Scottish Fishermen's Federation would disagree if I were to say that, while people may be concerned about this issue, the fishing industry in Scotland faces many larger issues over the next few years. The committee has made a commitment to examine fisheries strategy to help the industry. I notice that those who are saying that there should be an inquiry have not come forward with any material area of continuing concern. As Alex Fergusson said, there were concerns at the time of the debate, many of which, as far as I am aware, have been aired. The question remains: what are the material concerns that have not yet been answered? I have not heard anything in the discussion to answer that. If it is felt that there are continuing concerns, perhaps those can be addressed in our discussion on fisheries strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 579170,
      "EditedText": "I will express my views at this point, although members should feel free to disagree with them. On 29 June, this issue was topical—it was presented to us as a topical issue. We decided to defer discussion and await the letter, which we have now received—it is dated 13 September. It is important to note that the fishing industry, represented by the Scottish Fishermen's Federation, felt at the time that it wanted to raise a number of issues. Because of our decision to defer discussion, we did not at that time take heed of any of those issues and did not involve ourselves in a debate with the fishing industry. Now that we have the report, it appears—this is largely an assumption—that the Executive and the Scottish Fishermen's Federation have taken different positions, so it would be appropriate for this committee to hear the federation's views. At that stage, we could decide whether we investigate further. Would that be considered an appropriate course?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 579171,
      "EditedText": "May I suggest, to prove that compromise can come from any direction, that we encapsulate what you said and what Dr Murray said, and invite the federation and the minister to address us? That would constitute our further investigation into the matter. Members have spoken about a short, sharp inquiry. Would that satisfy those who want a short, sharp inquiry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 579173,
      "EditedText": "We would ask the Scottish Fishermen's Federation to express its continuing concerns and ask the minister to respond to those in the forum of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 579178,
      "EditedText": "Before we leave this issue, convener, please will you write to the assistant fisheries secretary to point out his error?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 579179,
      "EditedText": "We have a copy of the minutes of proceedings here that we could analyse, given a moment. Did you have an opportunity to read it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 579180,
      "EditedText": "Some action needs to be taken to put this right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579181",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 579181,
      "EditedText": "The minutes of the meeting of the Parliament on Thursday 3 June record that Ross Finnie moved a motion beginning with:\"That the Parliament notes that\".The motion then describes the statutory instrument and other matters. An amendment in the name of Mr Salmond was moved by Richard Lochhead. The amendment was to\"Leave out from ‘notes' . . . to end\"and to substitute other words. That amendment was disagreed to. Another amendment was moved by Euan Robson, and it was agreed to. The outcome was that in essence the Parliament noted the contents of the motion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 579182,
      "EditedText": "That is correct, so a letter needs to be sent to Mr Feeley to point out that his reply was incorrect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 579183,
      "EditedText": "We will write to him to confirm that. Thank you to the runner who got the copy of the paperwork."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 579186,
      "EditedText": "If, for any reason, it is not possible to arrange the meeting with the minister and the SFF for that date, would the earliest possible subsequent date be appropriate?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 579187,
      "EditedText": "Should we respond to the letter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 579188,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I will respond to the letter to point out the inconsistency—as highlighted by Euan Robson—and to make the minister aware of the process that we have decided to enter into."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 579194,
      "EditedText": "I would be interested to hear other views on how the meeting should be conducted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 579197,
      "EditedText": "Excellent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 579199,
      "EditedText": "Item 4 on the agenda is the briefing paper \"Forestry in Scotland\" dated 24 September. Is this the last of the briefing papers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 579201,
      "EditedText": "I ask members—if they have had the opportunity to look through the paper—whether they think that this paper is accurate and appropriate. Is there anything that is not covered that members would like to be researched? Are you content with the amount of information? Are there any aspects that should be pursued?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 579202,
      "EditedText": "An aspect that is not addressed in this paper—it may come under the rural transport paper rather than this one—is that the increase in forestry production, which, as this paper points out, is set to double in the next 10 to 15 years, will place an enormous strain on some of the narrowest rural roads in Scotland. This is already a problem, as some local authorities are suggesting that forestry companies will have to pay for the upgrading of those roads so that they can carry the lorry traffic when the timber is felled. This is becoming a grey and difficult area of local authority finance. I know that there are initiatives in Argyllshire to examine this question, but the problem will spread right through Scotland, particularly to the south-west, which is the most heavily afforested area. This committee must consider this problem. I do not know whether it should be considered under forestry or rural transport, as it cuts across both."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 579208,
      "EditedText": "Alasdair's comments concern the wider area. If we start to explore that, we will discover that all these things interrelate with one another. It is important that we do not restrict our discussion of transport to roads, as other questions need to be answered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 579211,
      "EditedText": "It would be appropriate for us to consider local transport, as small roads are heavily burdened by the transportation of products from the forests. We should specifically consider local authorities' concerns about the damage that that is doing to roads. The downstreaming of products from the forests to where they are to be processed, or the way in which they are to be transported to where they are to be processed, is a different, although equally important, issue. For that reason, we can ask for the briefing paper to be extended slightly into those areas of transport.The development of the structure to handle the increased volume in products has to fit into the broader investigation into forestry that we had intended to pursue anyway. Once the transport issues have been brought up to date, it will be appropriate—perhaps at our next full meeting—to consider how we want to proceed in the longer term on forestry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 579212,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a suggestion. The consultation period has ended, but we have not yet seen the findings, so perhaps it would be more appropriate for us to wait before we have a global look at forestry issues, with a view to deciding how we want to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wildlife Management (Video)",
      "HeadingID": 17632,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ID": 17632,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 579216,
      "EditedText": "Few members will know about this item. Some time ago, I received a letter and a video from the Presiding Officer, concerning an issue that he wanted to bring to the attention of the committee. The video was passed to us from forestry management, via the Presiding Officer. It was made by Ronnie Rose, a wildlife management consultant. The Presiding Officer believed that it was appropriate that the video should be brought to our attention. A researcher from the Scottish Parliament information centre has watched the video in its entirety, which is more than an hour. We do not recommend using committee time to do this, but I believe that it would be worthwhile for members of the committee to watch the video, so that we can consider its contents at some point in the future. Members may borrow the video from SPICe, and should take the opportunity to pass it on to other members. After we have seen the video, it may be appropriate for us to invite Mr Rose to speak on some of the items that it contains. Is there any way in which the video could be passed around fairly quickly, so that we can all see it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wildlife Management (Video)",
      "HeadingID": 17632,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ID": 17632,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 579217,
      "EditedText": "No, I would not have thought so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Wildlife Management (Video)",
      "HeadingID": 17632,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ID": 17632,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 579219,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:11."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 579069,
      "EditedText": "I thank Sir David for coming along today. There has been much controversy about this issue and, while we all recognise that it is a health issue and that Sir David's advice to the Minister for Health and Community Care is essential, the issue impacts directly on rural areas. Many of my constituents have asked me about the latest medical evidence and why the ban cannot be lifted now.I do not propose to talk about lifting the ban, but you mentioned, Sir David, that there has not been a significant change in the evidence. I want to focus on the word \"significant\". What change has occurred—in the scientific evidence that is used by you and the chief medical officer in England—that has persuaded your English colleague to change his views while you maintain yours? \"Significant\" seems to be the key word."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 579074,
      "EditedText": "You are uncovering an important area that I should perhaps have mentioned earlier. It is difficult to think of those things as Scottish or English questions; people cross borders and, more important, meat crosses borders. We will be in a stronger position on knowing the source of each bit of beef that comes into the shops, but we are not there yet. It would be impossible—or at least it would not make much sense—to impose a ban in one part of the UK but lift it in another. We are dealing with a UK context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 579075,
      "EditedText": "I, too, thank the chief medical officer, particularly for the plain way in which he addressed us earlier, which was very easy to understand.I will continue Mike's line of questioning. As Sir David freely said, there have been 25 cases in Scotland this year. None of those cases has been in the beef herd; every one has been in the dairy herd, none of which—since BSE—gets in to the food chain. Given those facts, and the fact that those 25 cases are from a total of 1,400 or so for the UK, I must continue to ask how the English CMO has reached his conclusion while we cannot.Sir David mentioned, in his excellent statement, how much more the curve is coming down here and how factors here seem so much more secure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 579078,
      "EditedText": "I understand that and I share Alex Fergusson's concern. However, is he asking me whether it would have been better for me to agree with my colleague in England for the sake of uniformity, or whether I should have stuck to what I think is right in terms of framing advice? He would not really ask me that question, as he knows the answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 579080,
      "EditedText": "Things have unquestionably got much better in the two years since the ban was imposed. The BSE epidemic is going away and the estimates from Oxford are getting smaller. Things are going in the right direction.When the CMO in England—as the CMO to Government—framed his advice to the Government, I endorsed the plan in the light of the position that the UK was in during January and February. I endorsed the ban because I agreed with what he said—that it would be a different order of intervention to reintroduce a hazard that we have tried to take out of the human food chain.I still adhere to that position and I do not think that the evidence base has changed to the significant degree that would allow me to explain to this committee why we should lift the ban now. In February, I thought that it should be retained.I would love to lift the beef-on-the-bone ban and I would love there to be uniformity throughout the United Kingdom, but I can advise that the ban should be lifted only when I am convinced that we are on firmer ground than we have been on until now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 579085,
      "EditedText": "SEAC's original report did not say that there should be a ban on beef on the bone—it offered three recommendations of which that was only one, but which the Government chose to accept.What will happen in November? Will you still have to make a decision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C579091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 579091,
      "EditedText": "Is it also clear now that the only remaining transmission method is cow-to-calf, or has that not yet been fully determined?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 579102,
      "EditedText": "I have one final point. You mentioned the danger of a pool of CJD infectivity and spoke about the risks of person-to-person infection. Does that mean that once this issue has ceased to be of concern to the beef industry, because BSE has ceased to exist, it will continue as a health problem through infectivity in the human population?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 579103,
      "EditedText": "There is no question about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 579109,
      "EditedText": "I would certainly want to watch with great care what is happening in other parts of the EU—not just Ireland. There is a significant amount of BSE in Portugal; you will have seen the European Commission response to that recently. We are aware that there has been a significant problem in Switzerland. There is greater uncertainty about the magnitude of the problem in other parts of the EU.If you are asking me whether I am concerned to ensure that we eliminate a hazard from the human food chain, the answer is undoubtedly yes. I would be concerned about any countries with incidence of BSE whose meat may be being imported into this country. I am anxious to ensure that we do whatever we can to minimise the risk to human health. This takes us back to the border question. Until now, we have been talking about the border within the UK, rather than the border with the European Union."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 579115,
      "EditedText": "That is a legitimate line of questioning. I am grateful for the indication that the comparison with passive smoking was one that might be offered to me this afternoon, as it has allowed me to do some homework.If you are asking whether I am concerned about passive smoking, the answer is that I most certainly am. I am pleased that the Health and Community Care Committee has identified smoking as one of its main priorities. Let me provide the committee with a sense of the problem. In this country, a mother who smokes has a 9.8 per cent chance of having a low-birth-weight baby. If she does not smoke, the figure is 4.3 per cent. If proof were needed, that is how early passive smoking starts damaging people. On our best estimates, around 17,000 children under five in the UK are admitted to hospital each year with lung disease, asthma, glue ear and diseases that are attributable to some degree to passive smoking.You know as well as I do that we are losing the battle in terms of women smoking. The latest figures for deaths from lung cancer in Scotland are 2,747 men and 1,474 women. If one works on the premise that 90 per cent of those deaths are directly attributable to the fact that the person smoked, one is left with a question mark about the other 10 per cent. Some of them may be nothing to do with passive smoking, but the Government white paper \"Smoking Kills\" puts the risk estimate from passive smoking at something like several hundred cases a year in the UK. It is a huge problem.I resist any notion to say, \"There is the risk of passive smoking. What are you getting concerned about beef on the bone for?\" We are still in the threshold phase. For all we know, we are in the foothills of an epidemic of new variant CJD in people. If the bad end of the predictions comes into play, who is going to choose between risks?I do not see this as an either/or situation. You may have seen the publicity that surrounded the release of my annual report this year. One of the major lines of questioning was, what is all this about cancer? What is happening to lung cancer in this country? We are now firmly in health committee territory. That will be a major area for debate.I would not like to say that one risk is this big and another is smaller. We know now that passive smoking is a serious risk, while smoking is unquestionably a serious risk. We still have some way to go before we know with certainty how new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease equates to those risks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 17628,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 579122,
      "EditedText": "The new techniques that enable the determination of the existence of the prions in cattle without having to go through the mouse bioassay are a welcome development. I presume that those techniques will allow the results of the research to be reached and interpreted much faster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 579123,
      "EditedText": "You are absolutely right. Watching the experiments evolve has been painfully laborious. Anything that speeds up the process makes a huge difference. However, we still do not have a blood test, or some other less invasive test, for CJD in people who are still alive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sir David Carter: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 579128,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are discussing that seriously this afternoon. We are taking a view based on the current evidence and we are expressing the expectation that all those things will be reviewed in a rolling programme.I would prefer to take this one step at a time and it would be facile of me to say that I think that by, for example, 2 February, we will have lifted this and that by 9 March we will have done that. The only thing that members could be sure of is that I would be wrong. We must take the situation as it comes, so I cannot be drawn into answering such questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Beef on the Bone",
      "HeadingID": 17628,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 17628,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 579129,
      "EditedText": "Have members had all their questions answered at this point? As that is the case, on behalf of the Rural Affairs Committee and those members of the Health and Community Care Committee who have joined us today, I will take this opportunity to express our gratitude to the chief medical officer for Scotland for coming along and exposing himself to our questions, which could—let's face it—have gone anywhere.I would also like to thank him for the understanding he has given us of the medical evidence relating to the beef-on-the-bone issue in Scotland. It is an issue that this Parliament is very concerned about, and one in which it is essential that we progress with full knowledge of the medical evidence.I thank you for your contribution, Sir David, and I hope that you have enjoyed the experience. I look forward to the next time that we can act as your host."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C579144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 579144,
      "EditedText": "Sorry—I thought that it was switched off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 579145,
      "EditedText": "Noting the concerns on time scale, and taking them specifically into account at this stage, do members approve the time scale set out?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rural Communities (Employment)",
      "HeadingID": 17629,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17629,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 579147,
      "EditedText": "Recommendation 4 is:\"To remit to the Convener and two other members, further consideration of possible expert advisers and to report\".That would require the appointment of two additional reporters to work with me, to determine a special adviser and to bring forward a proposal to the committee. So far, we have been relying on Cathy Peattie and Irene McGugan as the sources of consultation on the issue. Would members agree to take those two ladies as the appropriate reporters?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 579149,
      "EditedText": "If we remember the committee meeting on 29 June, according to the minutes, we agreed\"to assess the scope for investigation of the impact of changes to the Scottish Fisheries Zone following executive consultations with the industry.\"A letter from Derek Feeley, assistant fisheries secretary in the Scottish Executive rural affairs department, dated 13 September, shows that those consultations have now been completed. It would therefore be appropriate for us to consider the matter again, as we deferred it on 29 June. The first option that I will put to members is that we accept the view that the matter has been examined adequately, and that there is no further scope for change. Are there any other comments or suggestions on how we might proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 579150,
      "EditedText": "I do not think, frankly, that that is what has happened. In the letter, Mr Feeley says:\"I hope this is helpful\".That is not the word that I would have used to describe it. The matter has gone back to the minister, and he says that he confirms his original decision, which is hardly surprising. That is not adequate. We should examine the earlier, alternative idea of having a quick look at the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 579151,
      "EditedText": "The basis on which we do that is as follows: it has been patently obvious from on-going press articles and campaigns that, in the intervening period, the fishing industry feels that the issue will not go away, that it has not been resolved to fishermen's satisfaction, and that questions still need to be answered. If we are to listen to the views of the fishing industry, we must do something proactive, along the lines that we suggested earlier: our own inquiry into the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 579159,
      "EditedText": "I am disappointed that Lewis thinks that we cannot influence the secretary of state; I am sure that he is open to influence from committees such as ours. If the cause is worth pursuing, we should not give up after a first attempt, but try again. This need not be a big diversion from our other activities. We are not proposing a mammoth inquiry, but are taking evidence from one or two individuals. I hope that we can hold a small inquiry into the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 579162,
      "EditedText": "My memory is not my strongest feature, but I remember that debate quite lucidly. There was considerable disquiet about the order in general terms, but the Parliament was to some extent mollified—against its will—by the minister's assurance that he would meet the Scottish Fishermen's Federation the next day to discuss that disquiet. I am not particularly satisfied by the letter and support the call for a limited inquiry into what has been happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C579163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 579163,
      "EditedText": "We have to consider what we want the outcome of any inquiry to be. Obviously, with some of the inquiries that we are considering there is the possibility of bringing forward legislation and changing the way in which we operate to take on board some of our findings. In this case, it is unlikely that we will be able to do that.I notice that the Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs has had discussions with representatives of the fishing industry. There may be a case for asking him to come to talk to us about what he felt the result of his discussions were."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 579167,
      "EditedText": "Can you tell us what it is to do with, in this context? If it is not connected with the future of the fishing industry, why do you want us to investigate it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 579168,
      "EditedText": "It is connected with the future of the fishing industry, in the sense that anything to do with fishing is connected with the future of the fishing industry. I do not think that it fits neatly into a consideration of the strategy for the future of the fishing industry. It is a one-off issue that must be examined on its own."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C579184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 579184,
      "EditedText": "Parliament noted the situation; it did not accept the order. That is the point that the committee member wishes to be taken up with the Executive.I thank the committee for its courtesy in allowing me to be here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 579185,
      "EditedText": "Before we leave this subject, would it be appropriate for us to invite the minister and representatives of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation to a meeting and to ask one side and then the other to present their views and answer the committee's questions? In what time scale should we organise that meeting? Our next scheduled meeting is on 2 November. Would it be appropriate to fit the meeting with the minister and the SFF into that day's business?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 579190,
      "EditedText": "On the day, it may be appropriate to take the line that one side will be allowed to present its views and then answer questions, after which the other party will do the same. I am open to suggestions on the order in which they should appear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 579192,
      "EditedText": "I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 579198,
      "EditedText": "I am open to suggestions on this matter, but if we feel that the previous method was a success, we will repeat it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 579200,
      "EditedText": "There will be one more paper, on transport on rural areas, which we should have for our next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 579205,
      "EditedText": "Should we ask SPICe to consider the transport of forestry products?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 579207,
      "EditedText": "I can understand why the researcher did not go into this in more detail, as it would be difficult to know where to stop. Many areas could usefully have been explored further. Another example is downstream industry—pulpmills, processing, and sawmills. The great increase in volume, which is due to peak at the beginning of the next decade, raises interesting questions about whether we need more downstream capacity, where that might be located and so on. That, too, could have been usefully explored, but I can understand why it was not—it is a big issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 579213,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point, which we will keep in mind. I shall try to find out when the results of the consultation are likely to be available. Do members want to raise any more points on the briefing paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 579215,
      "EditedText": "If members do not want to raise any more issues on the briefing paper on forestry, we will progress to item 5."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.6575123+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "British Fishery Limits (Scottish Zone)",
      "HeadingID": 17630,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ID": 17630,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 579154,
      "EditedText": "Lewis has covered most of my points. We have many important matters to consider on which we can make a difference, and I do not see how much more of a difference we can make. The matter has been debated, and as Lewis said, the secretary of state has spoken to the fishermen about it. It is not in our gift to change this and I do not see what a further inquiry will achieve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 3223
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forestry",
      "HeadingID": 17631,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 17631,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 579214,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we formally record our thanks to the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors in Scotland, which has copied for the committee all its correspondence on its concerns about the transfer of the lead ministerial responsibility for forestry in the UK from Scotland to Whitehall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
      "HeadingID": 13455,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13455,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 495787,
      "EditedText": "The problem with accepting it as a priority issue, and considering changes to the standing orders, is fitting all that into our timetable, because we are on the point of making some changes on other matters.This is a big issue, on which all the political groups would be best advised to reflect. We should give the Executive the opportunity to consider the problem and to give its own analysis. Although I agree that the issue is important, I do not think that we should try to bounce in, because it is late in the process. However, we are in the process of firefighting some of the little bits and pieces that have come up in the past few months and we are considering making more substantial changes to the standing orders by May. Many recent problems could be resolved by practice, rather than by trying to write standing orders for every eventuality. That is why I have always been reluctant to be over-prescriptive in the standing orders—there will always be new circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
      "HeadingID": 13455,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13455,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 495789,
      "EditedText": "I do not especially disagree with the suggestion that we should look quickly at the point raised by the Presiding Officer; and Margo MacDonald raises an important issue. I added a third angle. Mike added a second angle by combining Sir David Steel's point with Margo's point. Looking at the big picture will be a longer-term project. If you wanted a quick response to Sir David's point, we would have to do that while the bigger picture was the subject of further investigations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
      "HeadingID": 13455,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13455,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 495791,
      "EditedText": "For the next meeting, I will ask the clerks to produce a paper on those points, which will allow us to act on Sir David's letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
      "HeadingID": 13455,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13455,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 495792,
      "EditedText": "We can cope with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 495799,
      "EditedText": "It is appropriate for that point to be on the record; I will incorporate it into the letter that I will prepare with the clerks. Many letters will come out of this process, and we should make them all fully available. We will e-mail them to all members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 495800,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to raise that point. Many issues have arisen as a result of members' comments, and we should ensure that they are fully informed of our decisions and why we have reached them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 495801,
      "EditedText": "Do we all agree that we should go for the third option in the clerks' report? A morning vote will be possible but will not be normal. It will happen only in unusual or exceptional circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 495802,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 495807,
      "EditedText": "Iain, can you offer us any guidance? The Executive did not want any changes in voting procedures. Does the Executive feel strongly about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 495809,
      "EditedText": "On one occasion there was a vote in which a mass abstention was not recorded. The electronic devices that we are using are, to say the least, unreliable. We need a mechanism to correct that. I am an electrician by trade—going back a long time—and I agree with Donald that if the system fails once, it is bound to fail twice. There should be a procedure for a roll-call vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 495811,
      "EditedText": "There is a method of correction. It is possible to have a time-consuming and cumbersome roll-call vote, or possibly a show of hands. There are other mechanisms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 495816,
      "EditedText": "There was a little bit of Conservatism in there, Gordon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 495821,
      "EditedText": "The next item is priority issues 10, 13 and 20 to 22, about the deadlines for speakers in debates. The decision points are identified for the committee. The suggestion is that, the day before a debate, members are asked to put their names forward so that a list of intended speakers is produced. We would not, however, change the standing orders. We simply suggest that the Presiding Officer sets some practices in motion that do not require anything to be set in tablets of stone. That will allow for the possibility that someone who desperately wanted to contribute to a debate but did not submit their name the day before could still press their button and be picked at the Presiding Officer's discretion. The arrangement will give members better advance knowledge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 495822,
      "EditedText": "The clerks have summarised that exceptionally well in the paper, which describes exactly how it should be done, with the addition of a reassurance to members that they will still have the opportunity to speak should they wish to. The paper summarises well the long debate that we have had in the bureau and elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 495824,
      "EditedText": "There is one point that I would like to raise, albeit with some diffidence as the Deputy Minister for Parliament is sitting beside me. One of the better aspects of Westminster is that dissidents usually get a fair shout. There was a fairly major issue on which I disagreed with my worthy colleagues. I tried to speak in three debates in order to set out my stall and I was not called. I am not suggesting that anything naughty happened, but the Presiding Officer should have some sort of guidance that if someone wants to make a conscience statement, they should be enabled to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 495835,
      "EditedText": "John, could you clarify which of the three options would require a change in standing orders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 495837,
      "EditedText": "But the second is a reaffirmation of practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 495838,
      "EditedText": "This is a difficult issue. I indicated my preference for Wednesday evenings at the previous meeting, but since then several members have said that that does not suit them because of their constituency work loads or family commitments. What Mike says is technically correct, but my response to leaving this place at 6.30 pm or 7 pm is that the kids are in bed by the time one gets home. I would like to see how we get on with the first two suggestions, allowing for some further consideration. I acknowledge that we need to resolve the issue of time required in the chamber, but to move to a decision too quickly might cause some difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 495840,
      "EditedText": "The question for us is not what is done, but what the standing orders allow. It is sensible, in amending the standing orders to allow for meeting on Wednesday mornings, also to look at changing them to allow for an extension of time on Wednesday evenings. Changing the standing orders does not mean that the changes will be used. At the moment, it is not clear that there would be the business to use either option. If it should prove necessary later in the session to give ourselves more time, we would look pretty wretched if we had had the opportunity to expand the business day but had not taken it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 495845,
      "EditedText": "Another issue that has arisen from discussions with colleagues is the assumption that if we decide to have Wednesday morning parliamentary sessions, committees that meet on a Wednesday morning will be moved to Monday afternoon. Affected members will therefore be disfranchised by having to spend Mondays out of their constituencies. It was suggested that, if such a decision were made, committees should be rotated so that not everyone who met on Wednesday would have to meet on Monday instead. Perhaps we could include that in our suggestions to the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495847",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 495847,
      "EditedText": "That sounds like a good concept. The Executive has a point; however, in the proverbial real world, a minister in any debate will reply to more convenient and easier points and will ignore the more difficult issues. The situation is worse at Westminster, so I am not getting at any individual MSPs. In most organisations the people who instigate the debate should have the right to reply; however, Murray's suggestion is a good way of meeting the Executive's specific point that it has the right to rebut any erroneous points made in final speeches, as long as that does not involve another very long speech."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 495849,
      "EditedText": "Members will not be surprised to learn that I disagree with Mike. As we heard all the evidence at the previous meeting, I am just going over what we already know. However, I feel strongly that, as the whole point of non-Executive debates is to probe the Executive, the Executive has the right to answer questions. Anyone who has sat through a non-Executive debate in the chamber will have seen ministers taking notes to respond to points that have been raised. That is the whole point of the Executive's summing-up speech and is why we should continue to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495859",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 495859,
      "EditedText": "I move,That we continue with existing practice that the Executive sums up in all debates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 495863,
      "EditedText": "I understand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 495865,
      "EditedText": "If the committee decides today to change standing orders after a vote, that decision will be incorporated in the report and consequent motion that would go before Parliament. It is possible that members might then seek to amend the committee's report and recommendations. However, we cannot prejudge what others might think. The point is that we are only making recommendations.John, can you outline to the committee how the vote will be taken? I think that this might be the first committee vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 495867,
      "EditedText": "Is there a difference here? Can a member either register an abstention or simply not vote and not register anything?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 495879,
      "EditedText": "There would be an issue of fairness because the Presiding Officer would have to decide what questions are included week to week on the basis of fairness and equity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 495881,
      "EditedText": "It should be made clear that that means MSPs other than the MSP who has asked the original question, so that the change will allow supplementaries to come from other people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 495883,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 495884,
      "EditedText": "I suppose that it is impossible to impose discipline or self-discipline on members, but it might be possible to instruct the Presiding Officer to rule that a supplementary that is clearly irrelevant to the original question should not be answered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 495885,
      "EditedText": "He has already done that to Phil Gallie and Jack McConnell. If he is going to do that anyway, we need not instruct him to do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 495889,
      "EditedText": "The fifth suggestion is that we retain the eight-day rule, except for First Minister's questions as dealt with in question 2 for decision in this section."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495890",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 495890,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 495891,
      "EditedText": "The sixth question is whether we consider an extension to question time that would allow that there be more questions in the closed session, in the open session or in both.There is no guidance provided for this as it is entirely a matter for this committee. At the moment there is three quarters of an hour for question time. It might be reasonable to go for an hour and to look at putting some of that extra time into either the closed or open session or into both. Members might, however, feel that three quarters of an hour is adequate time and that we must make do with fewer questions.If we do look to extend the time, I do not think that it would be reasonable to extend it beyond an hour. The time would then begin to impact on other business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 495893,
      "EditedText": "May 2000 is the end date. The process that this committee is engaged in fulfils the obligation for review, so medium term would mean up to the time when a motion to accept the standing orders is put before Parliament and agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 495897,
      "EditedText": "Let us discuss something philosophical: the end point to the medium term is what I am asking about. We know the end point of what we are doing now, but we have used the phrase medium term several times and I am concerned that the medium term might bleed off into the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 495914,
      "EditedText": "There might not even be that many fewer if we cut down on debate opening and closing times."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 495919,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask for clarification. Have we decided to recommend—regarding point 6 in the previous section—that question time has been extended to one hour, with 40 minutes for closed questions and 20 minutes for open questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 495921,
      "EditedText": "That might mean that four questions could be put to the First Minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495923",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 495923,
      "EditedText": "I think that that should apply in any recesses of more than five days' duration. We not going to ask people to leave their plum pudding at Christmas to come and answer a question from Gil or me or others. I was trying to avoid the names of frequent questioners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 495925,
      "EditedText": "We all get quite a lot of flak—some deserved and some not—but the fact that written questions can be lodged during the recess is a huge advantage over the Westminster system. Whoever dreamed that up deserves great credit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 495926,
      "EditedText": "I would like to bring up a point about holding questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 495928,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 495929,
      "EditedText": "That will allow for greater breathing space and will allow staff to take their Christmas holidays as well.The second point that we are asked to make a decision on is whether a detailed proposal for priority questions should be drawn up by the chamber desk for consideration and recommendation by the committee to Parliament once the Parliament has adopted its own standing orders. That involves the issue of designation of questions by business managers and/or the Presiding Officer as priority questions. Are we agreed to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 495935,
      "EditedText": "Would that cover my first point on a health warning on the time that is taken to get an answer once a holding answer has been given? Would not such a suggestion require a change to standing orders? At the moment, a holding answer appears and ministers can say that an answer will be given in three weeks, 10 days or whatever. The waiting can go on for ever and one has no idea when the answer will land on one's desk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495940",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 495940,
      "EditedText": "I will make that point also in our representation to the bureau.We move to issue 29, on which the recommendation is that we take no further action, which is good. Are we agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 495941,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 495942,
      "EditedText": "Issue 30 deals with emergency bills. The options are either to consider redrafting rule 9 of the standing orders or to consider the matter over a longer time scale. A note is appended to the report on the issue. It makes the point that the procedure for the emergency legislation that we passed worked, although it required the suspension of standing orders. Nevertheless, the legislation appeared to be dealt with fairly promptly and, ultimately, satisfactorily. Do we want to re-examine the whole issue of emergency bills within the next two or three weeks, or over a longer period?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495954",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 495954,
      "EditedText": "We look forward to those days, Mike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 495960,
      "EditedText": "The decision that we make now cannot be changed, as it would look negative to have to revisit the issue in the next Parliament if there was a change in political representation—it might look as if the committee was trying to overturn a previous decision. The committee's decision on the matter must last longer than the term of this Parliament. The option whereby the three—or is it two?—individual members get one half day per session is attractive. There is some merit in coming some way between the two proposals. The question is where we will find a half day for them to share. They will need to agree on an issue that they want jointly to promote or will have to agree that one of them will take the half day this year, and someone else the year after and the year after that. There is merit in that approach, which moves away from what I said, which is that they should have no time. On reflection, perhaps we can adopt a position whereby the three—or is it two?—members are given a half day per session. We should talk with those members about the issue: whether they want to have half days in sequence or to share the time, depending on current issues. We should discuss with them how they want to deal with each other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 495968,
      "EditedText": "Donald has suggested a sensible compromise. Differentiation—always a difficulty in our discussion—between the parties and the independent, no matter how much one respects the independent, is addressed by option 2(a), in the way that the parties have asked for it to be addressed. Donald was right to say that advice to the Presiding Officer on the treatment of an independent member—eventually there might be more than one—is fine. I would withdraw my proposal on options 2(a) and 2(b), and happily support Donald's proposal on option 2(a), with a rider on 2(b)."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 495970,
      "EditedText": "The basic currency of the Parliament is a half day; one should deal in that basic currency and not sub-divide it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 495971,
      "EditedText": "That would set a dangerous precedent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 495979,
      "EditedText": "I know that you are fond of proportionality, Iain, but there is a principle to be heard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495980",
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    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 495980,
      "EditedText": "That is the principle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 495982,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether this proves or disproves that the Executive can give a brief response to a summation speech by the Opposition spokesman—Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 495985,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have broad agreement. Nobody is entirely happy with that suggestion, but everybody, I think, can live with it: that we seek an extra half day, make it available to the current single-member parties, allow them to rotate, to share or to split the time—it is up to them, as Donald says—and draw to the Presiding Officer's attention the way in which Dennis Canavan, as an independent, might be dealt with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495986",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
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      "EditedText": "I will not push my proposal to a vote, but I think that the Greens and Scottish Socialists are not being treated fairly by the proposals, and that they should have been allocated a half day each. However, as I will not win such a vote, I will not push it to one. It is unfortunate that we are not recognising the basic right of those parties to the smallest change that we can offer."
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      "EditedText": "Indeed not, but he is probably awaiting the outcome of our discussion. However, Dennis has not been backward in coming forward to express his view on a whole variety of issues—his article in The Herald yesterday was excellent. We now come to issue 33, about the oldest member."
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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  {
    "ID": "C496001",
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 496002,
      "EditedText": "Issue 36 was where my mind went blank."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 496012,
      "EditedText": "It is probably at the bottom of a heap of mail for you, Gil.Given that two members are looking at the document and having to absorb the whole page on issue 38, it might be best for you to give us a summary, John, then we can have a discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 496018,
      "EditedText": "No. There have been no such cases yet, but there easily could be some. There has almost been one. There could easily be cases in which there was a genuine difficulty in understanding or agreeing which should be the lead committee. It is right for the Parliament to make the final decision. Such cases will occur rarely, but the Parliament has to be in a position to decide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496019",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 496019,
      "EditedText": "I will defer to your experience on that, as you are on the bureau and I do not know the circumstances."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C496022",
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496026",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 496026,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that the legal people will interpret our favourable response to the recommendation and come up with pithy amendments to the standing orders."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496028",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 496028,
      "EditedText": "That concludes that item—well done."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Topical Questions",
      "HeadingID": 13458,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 496031,
      "EditedText": "Item 4 concerns the letter from the Presiding Officer. Are members content to commission a paper on the issue from the clerks—on anything that we have not attended to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 13459,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 496034,
      "EditedText": "For any paper that we receive, we need to understand exactly what it would mean for the operation of the Parliament. One of my concerns, which I know has been expressed by several members of the bureau, is that there is already the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body and the Parliamentary Bureau. There are difficulties with that in terms of roles and responsibilities—they are being worked out. If we have a third standing group, the committee of conveners, does that add to our difficulties or does it diminish them? I would like that question to be addressed, because clarity in parliamentary business and in the Parliament's operation is what we need."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 496037,
      "EditedText": "That is fine. I hope that we will manage to smooth over the matter and determine the respective roles of the bureau and the conveners liaison group. However, that might be a triumph of hope over expectation. This committee's job will be to try to facilitate whatever is resolved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
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      "ID": 13460,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 525.0,
      "ContributionID": 496038,
      "EditedText": "Item 6 concerns the report that has already been dealt with. That concludes today's business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13460,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 13460,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 527.0,
      "ContributionID": 496039,
      "EditedText": "We have been meeting for most of the first part of a parliamentary year, convener. Credit is due to you, John and the team of clerks for helping us to tackle a complicated set of issues in a cheerful and occasionally hilarious way, and to do a great deal of work. I look forward to reading the recommendations on 2 November and believe that all members will thank you for the contribution that you and the team have made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13460,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 13460,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 529.0,
      "ContributionID": 496040,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
      "HeadingID": 13460,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ID": 13460,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 496041,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. That is very kind. I thank the committee for the constructive way in which it has approached everything—almost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13454,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13454,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 495781,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:30"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13454,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13454,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Murray Tosh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 495782,
      "EditedText": "During our fifth meeting, we will have to take decisions on a variety of proposed changes to the standing orders. The thrust of the evidence that we heard at our previous meeting was that we should adopt a minimalist approach—let the thing run and see how it works. I therefore suggest that today we should attempt to identify issues that are genuine problems and set in motion the necessary changes to the standing orders, but that on other issues we should simply apply a touch to the tiller. In one or two cases, I might suggest that we merely offer opinions to the Presiding Officer. From some of the announcements that he has made in the chamber recently, it seems that he is receptive to taking guidance from the committee.That is how I would like the meeting to proceed, although what we do on any of the specific agenda items is entirely up to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
      "HeadingID": 13455,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13455,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 495784,
      "EditedText": "That ties in with agenda item 4, which is a letter from the Presiding Officer that arose out of the request last week for a statement and the fact that there was no procedure allowing the Presiding Officer to accept the request. The words \"sufficiently urgent\" are in rule 13.8 of the standing orders, but those words can be interpreted in different ways. Can we bring the two issues together, and have a paper from the clerks on the range of issues surrounding urgent and topical questions, emergency motions and ministerial statements?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
      "HeadingID": 13455,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13455,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 495785,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair suggestion. From time to time, matters arise that are of pressing interest, but the Parliament does not respond to them timeously. That can be because the matter does not arise on an Opposition day or because the Opposition does not want to raise it, or because it is not part of the Executive's business. We do not seem to have the opportunity to discuss issues as they arise. Perhaps the clerks could consider all those points together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
      "HeadingID": 13455,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13455,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 495788,
      "EditedText": "I do not like to disagree with you, because we have been running on consensus. However, rule 13.8 is very important to the Parliament. Emergency questions are likely to arise from time to time; they will certainly arise between now and next May. If the Presiding Officer himself writes to the Procedures Committee to say that the rule is not adequate or sufficient, and if he uses the word \"vital\" in his letter, we should treat the matter with some urgency and put it on our list of priorities. If we do not do so, we will run into the problem again, perhaps several times before next May. When the opportunity exists, we should try to do something about it.I am not suggesting that we should try to steer the Presiding Officer to interpret rule 13.8 in a way that would overcome the difficulty—that would not be enough. However, something needs to be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
      "HeadingID": 13455,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 495794,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 495795,
      "EditedText": "We have a number of decisions to take, based on paper PR/99/5/2 on priority issues. The intention is to take those decisions today; at the next meeting, we will review the changes required to the standing orders. Depending on how quickly we can do the work, we might require to use the meeting after that as well. After we take the decisions today, we will ask the legal people and the clerks to work on the wording, and the committee will then, I hope, approve reasonably quickly the necessary changes so that we can report to the Parliament.At our previous meeting, we pruned the list of priorities quite a bit. However, as quickly as some issues have been lost, various other little bits and pieces have emerged and have been added to the list.I want to go through quickly some of the more straightforward issues. Issues 1 and 2 were about decision time. We were considering several options. If I have got this wrong, please interrupt me. The first option is not practical. We have agreed that it would not be good practice to try to have a vote after every debate, as that would unduly disrupt the day's business and make it difficult for members to get to the chamber. The second option is possible, as is the third, which was suggested by the clerks.We have had a fairly strong plea from the Executive that it is not reasonable to haul ministers in on every Thursday morning, or on Wednesday mornings if we have meetings on Wednesday mornings. We have also had a plea from some members who have said that occasionally morning debates have lost a bit of their fizz because the matter was not decided by a full chamber, as it could and should have been. The example that springs to mind is the debate on the Holyrood building, the drama of which was sacrificed by not moving to a vote immediately.The clerks say that it is up to the Presiding Officer to decide, on a debate-by-debate basis, whether there should be a vote after the debate, or whether to stick rigidly to 5 o'clock. I am sure that in the vast majority of cases it will be appropriate to have decision time at 5 o'clock; but from time to time a debate timetabled for a morning might well command considerable interest and be likely to be fully attended, and for such a debate it would be appropriate to have an immediate vote. With hindsight, that might have been a better way to handle the Holyrood debate—as a result, the issue might not have been identified as a priority.If we choose that option, we will not have to change the standing orders—we will simply have to draw the matter to Sir David Steel's attention. I see nodding heads—does everyone think that that is the best way to proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 495796,
      "EditedText": "As long as the notice given is adequate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 495797,
      "EditedText": "That is a critical point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 495803,
      "EditedText": "Issues 3 and 4 are about the calling of a vote again because of error. That might seem a relatively minor matter, but any changes to procedure will require changes in the standing orders. The evidence that we took revealed a conflict: the Executive did not favour changing the procedures, whereas the Scottish National party suggested that there ought to be a procedure to deal with error. My view is that errors are likely to occur less and less often as we become more practised, but that it is sensible to give the Presiding Officer the power to call a vote again in the circumstances that are outlined in the clerks' report. That is not the same as saying that we would automatically rerun votes, but if the Presiding Officer does not have the power to do so, and a difficulty such as an electronic failure or a disturbance arises, the situation becomes more difficult to handle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 495806,
      "EditedText": "If an error arises because of human error, tough—I would not have a re-vote for that. If the error is a genuine electronic error, there should be an opportunity for a re-vote. There should also be such an opportunity if there is a riot, although so far we do not seem to be a very riotous assembly.There is an argument that the same electronic system will produce the same electronic error in a re-vote. I am not qualified in electronics, but that does not seem to me necessarily to follow. It would be worth trying to hold the vote again quickly, and if it did not work, we could vote by a show of hands. There should be a provision to deal with the problem, but it is not a big deal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Parliament (Iain Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 495808,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the Executive feels particularly strongly. The view was that standing orders do not at present allow for re-votes, even though they have happened. If there is to be a re-vote, however, the circumstances must be those in which the Presiding Officer has evidence that there has been a fault in the system. A re-vote cannot be called simply because a business manager thinks that his party has voted the wrong way and wants it recast. As Donald said, if the mistake is made by an individual member, that is tough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 495810,
      "EditedText": "To have no discretion to re-vote if there was a machine error would bring the Parliament into disrepute. Imagine a situation in which we passed a measure that became the law of the nation, and the press said that it was not the law of the nation because a machine broke down and the Parliament had no way of correcting that. We would be a laughing stock."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 495813,
      "EditedText": "I agree. The important thing is to ensure that the Presiding Officer is aware—I am sure that he is—that no one is suggesting that we have re-votes willy-nilly. If we agree to make the change in the standing orders, we will expect Sir David Steel and his deputies to be strict in allowing re-votes. Is that a fair compromise? We will make the changes, but we understand that the use of the power is to be limited."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 495814,
      "EditedText": "That is common sense rather than a political issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 495815,
      "EditedText": "Oh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 495819,
      "EditedText": "No, I have not. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 495820,
      "EditedText": "We will explain later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 495828,
      "EditedText": "Donald asked for a survey of members to be done, which is germane to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 495831,
      "EditedText": "The point of the survey is to show that a substantial number of people will be here anyway. If the meeting finishes at 7 pm, I cannot imagine that anyone within commuting distance of the Parliament will be precluded from going home. We will need more time for meetings of the Parliament, although unfortunately we do not yet know how much. Therefore, we should probably assent to all three suggestions and say that all three options would be available to the bureau to decide upon. It would then be up to the bureau to timetable business appropriately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 495833,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 495834,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult, even in a small group, to reach consensus, because people have different views—usually depending on their domestic circumstances. Perhaps it is an option to leave everything open and on the table, so that the bureau can consider making proposals. I do not know whether that is passing the buck, but it is difficult at this stage to make hard and fast decisions. From the point of view of what will be more beneficial to business, meeting all day on Wednesday rather than meeting for an extra hour and a half on Wednesday evenings would be better. Staffing arrangements for Wednesday night and the financial implications remain. It is difficult to say that one is better than the other. Different people have different views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 495836,
      "EditedText": "The first and the third would require changes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 495839,
      "EditedText": "Any proposal has a bad and a good side. The bad side of Wednesday evening business is the domestic upset that has been mentioned. The bad side of committees meeting on Mondays is that members who could be doing good things in their constituency must come here—so there is loss and upset there, too. All three options should be available. Perhaps we should do a more systematic trawl of members' opinions, asking whether the third option is preferable to the first two."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 495841,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly the point. If we make all the options available, the decision must be made elsewhere—the bureau will have to make it. I understand Andy's point of view. Without sounding slightly sour, I would love the opportunity to be at home to see my child to bed every night. I never get that opportunity on Tuesdays, Wednesdays or Thursdays, and sometimes not even on Mondays. I understand that people want to be able to do that—very much, with all my heart—but in terms of the good management of parliamentary time, one night a week is not too great a sacrifice. This is a debate that we will have to conduct, but we should facilitate the ability of the bureau to schedule in all those times. The first option included the possibility of allowing the Parliament to meet at the same time as committees, and we said that we would not proceed with that, because it is undesirable and it has clear cost implications as well as implications for the work of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 495842,
      "EditedText": "That is not incorporated in the recommendation—we set our faces against it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 495843,
      "EditedText": "Do not get me wrong: I am an advocate of Wednesday evening meetings, but in order to make them more acceptable we should have further consultation. I do not disagree with altering the rules here and allowing the bureau to make decisions. I just want to make my position clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495844",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 495844,
      "EditedText": "Convener, you have already made the strongest point. I am fairly square that I want to be out visiting people. However, it would be remiss of us not to take this opportunity to make room in the schedule if we need it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 495846,
      "EditedText": "It is a moot point whether that decision is for the committee of conveners or the bureau or for both, but Janis's point is perfectly valid and should be remitted on. As members who have to come to Edinburgh on Monday will probably feel like the victims of this change, all committees should have to meet on a Monday at some point.Are we agreed that we will implement the three recommendations, with the first and third requiring changes to standing orders; that we will make that remit to other bodies that have been identified; and that we will record in our deliberations that simply to extend this time is not an invitation to meet for all that time? The bureau does not require to fill those hours, but the hours are there should parliamentary business require them. It is agreed. Jolly good.Let us move on to issue 17. I suspect that the problem posed by issue 17 could probably be resolved if the business motion and the business bulletin specified that a statement would be heard without debate or would be debated. As the issue then becomes a matter of words, we do not need to change standing orders. That is agreed.Item 18 concerns the summing-up of debates. The issues raised are outlined at the foot of the second page of the report on this item. At the moment, the Executive sums up debates and wants to continue to do so. Opposition parties have indicated a desire to conclude Opposition debates. The clerks have suggested a third option, which arose after the preparation of this paper and which I shall now suggest as a compromise for committee members to throw out if they so wish.The Executive has argued that a point might be raised in an Opposition member's concluding speech to which ministers might want to respond, because either the point is wrong or it misrepresents policy. Furthermore, an entirely new issue might be raised in a concluding speech, which is always possible, though is not good debating practice. Would it be possible to build in a facility that both allows an Opposition member to conclude a debate on an Opposition motion and gives the Presiding Officer the discretion to let the minister who had summed up for the Executive respond after the final speech to a point that had been factually wrong or that had touched on an entirely new issue? That would give the Opposition the right to conclude the debate and ministers the right to challenge a point that had been sprung on them in the final speech.I look round and see quizzical faces. I am not sure that my olive branch has been grasped as enthusiastically as it was proffered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 495848,
      "EditedText": "Although Murray's suggestion is an elegant compromise, I do not think that it is workable. It is the nature of politics that any member who sums up in a debate will make political points dressed up as facts, which exposes the bogus quality of Tom McCabe's argument at the previous meeting. In such circumstances, the Executive will find something to which to object in any Opposition winding-up speech. Equally, we objected in political terms to certain points that were raised in the minister's winding-up speech in last week's Opposition day debate on education. The simpler issue is that, for the bulk of the time in Parliament, the Executive controls business; it proposes and sums up. On the 15 half days—there are not many of them—when non-Executive parties have the chance to propose motions and to put forward business, they should be accorded the Executive's privilege to sum up their case. I have no doubt that ministers will object to something in those summing-up speeches; if so, they can attempt to intervene in the same way that members of non-Executive parties attempt to intervene in ministers' closing speeches. The same rules should apply. I am strongly in favour of an amendment to standing orders that gives non-Executive parties the right to sum up on non-Executive days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 495853,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 495855,
      "EditedText": "That is clearly the mood of the committee.We now come to the substantive issue of whether to allow Sir David's interpretation of the matter to become established as a precedent—which he has so far stressed that it is not—and let the Executive sum up; or to change standing orders to allow Opposition parties to close on an Opposition motion. I ask Mike to move the point to which he has spoken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 495857,
      "EditedText": "I second that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 495858,
      "EditedText": "I think that we will just take motions. Motions on standing orders do not seem to require seconders, and, given that I am a single member of the committee, I would not want to establish the precedent of seconding such motions. It is sufficient for Mike to move the motion. Presumably, Janis will move the counter-motion that we will simply continue with existing practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 495862,
      "EditedText": "If we decide today not to seek a change to standing orders, the Presiding Officer will think that we have come to the conclusion that what has been done without a precedent could become a precedent and the established practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 495864,
      "EditedText": "Will any proposed change to standing orders go to the full Parliament for a vote in due course?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 495869,
      "EditedText": "As there are seven of us, I hope that we will not need a casting vote. Can I take a show of hands for Mike Russell's proposal?Committee members voted by show of hands: For 4, Against 3, Abstentions 0."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 495871,
      "EditedText": "I hope that that will be the last vote. We shall see.Item 19 concerns the issue of suspension and adjournment. As this is a very straightforward point, can we simply accept the suggested amendments to standing orders to allow suspension of business? That is agreed.Items 23, 24 and 27 concern the issue of question time. There are six options to decide on at the end of this substantial report. The first suggestion is that standing orders be changed to convert open question time to First Minister's question time. It is understood that the First Minister will normally, but not always, deal with those questions. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 495872,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement.   The second point for us to agree is that questions to the First Minister be submitted at the latest by 2.30 pm on the Monday before question time, and that the standing orders be changed to allow that. If we agree to that change to standing orders, we must decide whether we want to specify how questions should be chosen. Can we disaggregate those two issues and ask first, are we content to amend the standing orders to allow questions to be lodged up to 2.30 pm on the Monday for First Minister's questions only?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 495874,
      "EditedText": "How should those questions be selected? Should they be selected randomly, as is the case with the 30 questions currently selected, or should they be selected at the discretion of the Presiding Officer? The Presiding Officer certainly selects the third question on the basis of what he thinks is balanced and what would make for a good exchange of views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 495876,
      "EditedText": "I am in two minds about that because the chance might be lost of the third question being topical, hard-hitting and on the ball. Members might submit locally related questions that might be good for their constituencies but which would have no significance for the rest of the nation.I have been fairly content with the third questions that have been asked, and which have been chosen by the Presiding Officer. I would hate to see—and I say this with due respect to all members—low-level and unimportant questions being asked. The follow-up to those questions would become the issues as opposed to the questions.My initial reaction is that we should leave the choice to the Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495877",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 495877,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other views?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495894",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 495894,
      "EditedText": "There needs to be an end point to our medium term, as opposed to a start point, which has just been indicated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 495895,
      "EditedText": "The end point to the immediate term would be to accept the standing orders at the end of this process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 495900,
      "EditedText": "It could become, perhaps, the infinite."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 495901,
      "EditedText": "We could all get a TARDIS."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 495903,
      "EditedText": "It might be the middle of the end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 495906,
      "EditedText": "That is a matter for this committee; it can decide when medium term finishes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 495907,
      "EditedText": "What Mike is saying is that we want to revisit this before our submissions for changes in May. I concur with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 495908,
      "EditedText": "We should make the change to a one-hour question time as early as possible. I think that we should have more than an hour, but that is a start. If we are to have supplementaries, it seems rational that we should increase the time allocated at the same time as changing to allow supplementaries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 495909,
      "EditedText": "That would preserve the balance between members putting questions and giving the First Minister the opportunity to take more questions. I do not think that that will impact materially on the rest of the afternoon's business. I agree with that and I move,That question time be extended to an hour: 40 minutes for closed questions and 20 minutes for open questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 495911,
      "EditedText": "The issue is whether that will have a material impact on the rest of the day. I am trying to think through what the implications would be in terms of other announcements or debates and statements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 495912,
      "EditedText": "In the normal pattern of business quite often the period from 3.15 pm until 3.45 pm has been used for statements and questions and 3.45 pm until 5 pm has been used for debate. We would need to reduce the debate to an hour, and the difference between a debate that lasts for an hour and one that lasts for an hour and a quarter is not significant. Debates at that time do not usually attract vast numbers of members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 495913,
      "EditedText": "There would be four fewer speakers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 495915,
      "EditedText": "The Executive's view is that the changes should be made and that we should see how those changes run. If there is a significant reduction in the number of questions that can be taken, the issue can be reviewed. We do not actually know whether changing standing orders to allow more MSPs to ask supplementaries will result in a significant reduction in the number of questions being asked. We must wait and see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 495918,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. That takes us to issues 25 and 26."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 495922,
      "EditedText": "It conceivably could mean that, if we go with the broad five-minute timing. That might help the Presiding Officer, who has been trying to strike a party political balance.Issues 25 and 26 relate to the thorny problems of questions during recess, urgent responses to questions and holding answers. There is a long paper attached to those issues with a number of decisions for us to make at its end.I propose to examine the questions that have been placed before the committee. It is suggested that we should agree that the deadline for answers to written questions during recess should be extended to 21 days, but that it should it be left at 14 days while Parliament is meeting.That will give ministers and staff a break in the summer, when they are struggling to answer questions because of staff absence through holidays or other reasons. That will give them a greater degree of flexibility. Are we agreed on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 495924,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point, which relates to the second part of point 1 in the decisions for the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 495932,
      "EditedText": "It is based on time. The issue arose from the problems during the summer at Continental Tyres when it was felt that it was reasonable to get a speedier answer than normal. We all accepted that in principle.The third point on which we are asked to decide is whether holding answers should be allowed. They are not, strictly, allowed at the moment but it seems reasonable to allow them.There has been a request that the answer should make it clear why the answer is a holding answer. I am not sure that that would cast much light because the standard response, presumably, will be pressure of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 495933,
      "EditedText": "By whom will that be monitored? This is becoming something of a scandal for the SNP group. The proportion of holding answers to other answers is growing all the time. Some of the holding answers seem to last for ever and the quality of answers that come after holding answers is often poor.There is the problem of who will monitor that. The Executive has made the point that it is monitoring questions about the cost of questions and about information that will be available from elsewhere. Is the Executive also prepared to issue a breakdown of questions that includes the number of holding answers that have been given and the length of time taken to provide answers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 495938,
      "EditedText": "That would be extremely helpful. Are we agreed that we shall proceed on that basis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 495939,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 495945,
      "EditedText": "That seems fair enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 495948,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 495949,
      "EditedText": "We will therefore deal with the issue of emergency legislation in the medium term.We move now to the new issues. The first is the time available for members' bills, which was flagged up as an area that needed some thought. I suggest that the way to deal with the matter for now might be simply to indicate to the Presiding Officer that we have recommended that the Parliament be given the opportunity to meet on Wednesday mornings and slightly later on Wednesday evenings, which will make more time available to the bureau to timetable the handling of members' bills in meetings of the Parliament. The advice to committees on the possibility of holding meetings on Mondays should also deal adequately with the issue of how to handle the committee stages of members' bills. In other words, the time and the flexibility are already there to pass a member's bill if there is a will to do so. There is therefore no longer a need to do anything about the issue, although we might want to revisit it next year if experience shows that there is still a difficulty. We might have to consider allocating extra time then, but we cannot know what to do about it at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 495951,
      "EditedText": "There is no reason why every single member's bill should require a full half day's debate. If the committee comes back with a clear recommendation to go ahead, an hour's debate might be adequate for stage 1 of a particular member's bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 495962,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, yes, they did make the request, but if they were not willing to agree a position when we went back to them to discuss the matter, I would argue for the status quo, which is that they get nothing at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 495964,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 495965,
      "EditedText": "No. Perhaps Andy could clarify this, but I understood him to say that the three members would get an allocation of time. It would be an option for them to break that time up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 495972,
      "EditedText": "It is a choice between the two; I would be minded to support the half day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 495973,
      "EditedText": "What is the precedent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 495976,
      "EditedText": "I raised the point about proportion within the Opposition—the non-Executive members. If the entitlement of non-Executive members is 15 half days, the three members would, as the convener said, be entitled to 0.8 half days: it is about the proportion of non-Executive days. We can argue about whether the number of non-Executive days, as allocated in the draft standing orders, is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 495978,
      "EditedText": "That is a separate point from the one that I am making. Laughter. My point is that the allocation should be in proportion to the size of the parties—among the non-Executive parties. No party should have more than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 495984,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether this would be a consensus, but I could go along with Andy's proposal that the members should get one half day, and it is up to them how they divvy it up. If there is consensus on that, I would go with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 495988,
      "EditedText": "Once we have had a couple of cracking debates on motions tabled by those members, and once we review the matter, we might decide that we want to give them more time. It is more important at this stage to establish that they are entitled to the opportunity—to a platform.I think that we have an agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 495989,
      "EditedText": "Can I clarify this? Are we agreeing on option 2(a), amending \"15 half days\" to \"16 half days\"?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495992",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 495992,
      "EditedText": "He needs to be able to put forward his points of view."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495993",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 495993,
      "EditedText": "As far as I am aware, he has not as yet lodged any motions for members' debates."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495995",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 495995,
      "EditedText": "You said \"oldest\" without a smile. Laughter."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495998",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 495998,
      "EditedText": "We discussed issue 34 last time. We reached an agreement on it, but it has come back to us. The point has been brought to our attention quite correctly that last time, we talked about appointing somebody to chair a meeting if the convener missed his train, whereas it is possible that the convener might be ill or on prolonged absence and might not be able to chair a series of meetings. In such a case, we would want the committee to agree on a pro tem appointment. Shall we accept the report on issue 34, and the recommendation on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496000",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 496000,
      "EditedText": "Issue 35 is on an anomaly in the wording of rule 5.2. Are we all agreed on the recommendation?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496003",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 496003,
      "EditedText": "I think that the recommendation offers the right solution. The matter relates, if I remember correctly, to Phil Gallie's difficulty during the mental health emergency legislation."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496006",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 496006,
      "EditedText": "Issue 37 is on members' question time. I see on reading the introductory paragraph that the proposal simply ensures that all questions that are not answered orally are treated in the same way, and that answers are given in writing. Are we agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496007",
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496010",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 496010,
      "EditedText": "Could Iain Smith be given a spare paper? Have all committee members received it?"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C496011",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 496011,
      "EditedText": "I do not have one—that is not to say that I did not receive it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 496015,
      "EditedText": "Where there is a dispute, the matter will still have to be referred by the bureau to the Parliament. Is that necessary?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496016",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 496016,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496017",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 496017,
      "EditedText": "Cannot the bureau simply resolve that?"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496020",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 496020,
      "EditedText": "I suppose that that was a bit \"Lord James\"—so it is not between your party and mine, convener."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 496021,
      "EditedText": "We do not need to judge everything on a purely political basis. Shall we accept the recommendation on issue 38?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496023",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 496023,
      "EditedText": "Issue 39 is on questions, motions and amendments that relate to matters which are sub judice. Two members have only just received the report, so could John give a potted summary for us?"
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  },
  {
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 496024,
      "EditedText": "William will do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "William Venters: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 496025,
      "EditedText": "This point has been raised by the legal office, for the time when the Parliament approves its new set of standing orders. The changes are intended to make sure that sub judice questions, or motions for that matter, can be rejected. The decision is whether to clarify that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 13457,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 503.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 496029,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 is on chairing the first meeting of committees. Are we content to commission a paper on that weighty matter in the fullness of time? It might not be as urgent as medium-term, but we will get it straightened out and pick it up at some point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
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    "Person": {
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 496033,
      "EditedText": "Item 5 is about the constitution of the conveners liaison group. There has been discussion on whether it should be an informal or formal body, but the group itself has indicated that it wishes to be formalised. That would require an amendment to the standing orders, and to deal with that efficiently and timeously, we would need to do so in terms of the second paragraph of the report."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C496042",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mid-week Activities",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 496042,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:01."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2148,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 495783,
      "EditedText": "Let us move to agenda item 1. I have received a letter from Margo MacDonald. I do not want to go into specifics but, essentially, Margo has asked that we look at the way in which announcements are made in Parliament and the way in which questions and motions revolve round ministerial statements. That is an area of some concern. Iain Smith, who is here today, was part of a brief discussion last week in the chamber about the concordats. The committee, the Executive and the Parliamentary Bureau might have to look at the issue over time. The way in which to do that is to move cautiously and to ask for a report from the clerks; we should also engage in discussions on a broader front, to see whether we can all agree on the correct practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495786",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 495786,
      "EditedText": "Could that go on our list of priority issues? As the Presiding Officer says, that area is creating some difficulty for him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495790",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Emergency Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 495790,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to accept that. If we agree that we need to take urgent action on Sir David Steel's letter, a paper from the clerks on both issues would be helpful. However, at the next meeting, we should separate the two issues again and start to act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495793",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 495793,
      "EditedText": "Is the committee content to commission such a report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495798",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 495798,
      "EditedText": "Does the text of that option make it clear that having a vote after a debate and not at decision time should be the exception rather than the rule, as you said?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495804",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 495804,
      "EditedText": "I accept what you are saying, but I do not think that we have gone far enough down the road yet. I agree that many of those issues are being resolved as we go along and that problems will diminish with time. Proposals have already been made for changes to the voting system, and they will be further refined when we go to our new home. Would it be in order to delay a decision and to maintain the status quo in the meantime, but to have an option to review in due course if difficulties persist?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495805",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 495805,
      "EditedText": "That would certainly be in order and is a perfectly reasonable proposition."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495812",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 495812,
      "EditedText": "All that we are asking is that the Presiding Officer is given the power to say, \"Oops, clearly there has been a mistake, let's run that again.\" That is a reasonable power to give to the Presiding Officer, and I am surprised that it is not in the original standing orders. If he does not have that power, Gordon is absolutely right: for whatever reason, we could put ourselves in incredibly stupid situations. This is a reasonable change to the standing orders, and it should be made. I support making it now, rather than delaying it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495817",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 495817,
      "EditedText": "What I meant was—"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495818",
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    "Person": {
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 495818,
      "EditedText": "I could swear that you are blushing, Gordon. We will assume that you have not read this morning's newspapers."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495823",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 495823,
      "EditedText": "Are we all agreed?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495825",
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 495825,
      "EditedText": "The suggested arrangement would allow that. You would be able to register your desire to speak the day before. Sir David has indicated that he has an open door if people wish to speak to him on appropriate matters. I would have thought that, in those circumstances, you could have let the Presiding Officer know that you had a desire to express a particular point of view. It might be that handling it that way would enhance your chances, rather than relying on a simple nomination from the party business manager."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 495826,
      "EditedText": "I was anxious to avoid that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 495827,
      "EditedText": "In that case, we accept that recommendation. We move to priority issues 12, 14 and 15, on the lodging of motions and amendments. We have two choices. Either we amend standing orders to incorporate the announcement by the Presiding Officer on Tuesday 31 August, or we agree that the Presiding Officer's announcement has already covered the matter and that we should assess its effect and not change the standing orders until we have seen how the procedure works. The Presiding Officer's recommendation was that motions should be lodged at least two sitting days in advance of a debate and amendments one sitting day in advance. That seems to have been running smoothly, and it might be that we can agree to let that arrangement continue. I see that everyone is agreed. Priority issue 16 deals with the thorny matter of the amount of time for meetings of the Parliament. The summary of evidence incorporates the various proposals, which have implications for standing orders. The proposals are, first, that we should let the Parliament meet on Wednesday mornings if that is necessary; secondly, that we draw attention to the fact that committees can meet on a Monday; and thirdly, that we consider extending the Wednesday meeting until 7 pm. The third option would impact on the timing of decision time on Wednesdays. Does the committee wish to give effect to any or all of those proposals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 495829,
      "EditedText": "It is not yet complete, but William will give you the up-to-date picture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "William Venters (Senior Assistant Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 495830,
      "EditedText": "We consulted all 129 members on the question, \"Do you stay in Edinburgh on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings during periods when Parliament is meeting?\" So far, we have had 79 responses: 32 members said yes, 33 said no, three said that they stayed on Wednesdays only, and 11 said they stayed on Tuesdays or Wednesdays occasionally—which means that about 46 members stay in Edinburgh either permanently or occasionally during meeting periods."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 495832,
      "EditedText": "It is proposed that Wednesday business stop at 6.30 pm, other than members' business, and attendance at members' business is optional. That is not a huge variation, but it allows an additional debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 495850,
      "EditedText": "That was not a precedent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 495851,
      "EditedText": "I had some initial sympathy with the anti-Executive position on this issue and thought that MSPs who propose a motion should sum up. However, I have come to think that this is not a debating society; this is Parliament. All parliamentary debates must probe whether the Executive is doing its job correctly. It does not matter whether it is the Government lodging the motion that it is doing a good job or the Opposition lodging a motion that the Government is doing a bad job. As a result, the Executive should be able to answer any criticisms that have been made. I strongly agree with Janis's view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 495852,
      "EditedText": "Now that we have explored all the arguments, I want to put two questions to the committee. My first question is whether there is a market for the compromise that I suggested. I got the feeling that there was one member against my suggestion and one member for it. I am not sure about the others. Is my compromise viable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 495854,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the compromise would work. The Executive would use the option all the time to block Opposition summing-up speeches."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 495856,
      "EditedText": "I move,That, on 15 half-sitting days, non-Executive parties be accorded right of reply."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 495860,
      "EditedText": "We cannot continue with existing practice; there is no continuing practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 495861,
      "EditedText": "No, the Presiding Officer has observed a practice without setting a precedent, which is that the Executive sum up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 495866,
      "EditedText": "In the event of a division, only committee members can vote. Members can only vote in person and can only vote once on any question. The member may vote, although he or she did not hear the question put. Members do not have to vote and may register an abstention. The convener may vote and must also exercise a casting vote in the event of a tie. Committee members must vote by show of hands, unless otherwise directed or a member requests a roll call vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 495868,
      "EditedText": "It seems so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495870",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 495870,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 495873,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495875",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 495875,
      "EditedText": "The question really is whether it is acceptable, as I presume it must be, that there be a question from the leader of the Scottish National party and a question from the leader of the Conservatives.What else should be done? We cannot throw all the questions into a ballot because the SNP or the Conservatives might never come up first in that ballot in a year. What do we do with the third question? Do we allow the Presiding Officer to choose it or do we allow it to be balloted with all the other questions? I think that there is something quite attractive about allowing that ballot because more people will submit questions for specific categories."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 495878,
      "EditedText": "We could do that until we see how it works out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 495880,
      "EditedText": "It seems that there is consensus that we go with changes to standing orders, but that we leave the Presiding Officer to continue to exercise his judgment.The third proposal is that the standing orders be changed to permit supplementaries from MSPs at the discretion of the Presiding Officer during question time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495882",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 495882,
      "EditedText": "That will also have the effect of reducing the total number of questions that will get through under the existing time allocation. Are we agreed on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 495886,
      "EditedText": "That will be fine if it is understood.My other point is that this ruling might mean that we would need more time for question time so that we do not lose questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 495887,
      "EditedText": "That is the sixth question that we will come to in this section. When I made the point I realised that there would be fewer questions, but I take your point.The fourth suggestion is that I write to the Presiding Officer to get us out of having to change certain parts of the standing orders. Is that agreed to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495888",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 495892,
      "EditedText": "When we use the phrase medium term, we are, presumably, talking about the review of the standing orders that must be carried out before next May. Is that what we mean by medium term?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 495896,
      "EditedText": "You are cleverer than I am if you understood that question. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 495898,
      "EditedText": "It could become the long term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 495899,
      "EditedText": "it is not intended that the medium term should become the long term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 495902,
      "EditedText": "This is not the end—this is not even the beginning of the end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495904",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 495904,
      "EditedText": "Yes, something like that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495905",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 495905,
      "EditedText": "I am, despite the humour, trying to make a serious point. If we accept that we will learn from our experience of question time, we must know in our minds how long that experience will run before we make the changes that we might now regard as desirable, but which we could be persuaded not to make until we have tried things out for a little bit longer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495910",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 495910,
      "EditedText": "If no members have another point of view, we will vote."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495916",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 495916,
      "EditedText": "The convener has moved and I am certainly minded to support his motion on the grounds that we are reducing the time available to ordinary members to ask questions and I do not think that we should do that. This is a minimalist change that will assist ordinary members."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C495917",
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      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
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  },
  {
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 495920,
      "EditedText": "Closed question time would no longer be closed. There would be 40 minutes of open question time to the Executive and 20 minutes of questions to the First Minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 495927,
      "EditedText": "We will come to that. Are we agreed that we will allow the extra seven days for answers during the summer recess and also in recesses of longer than five days?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 495930,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 495931,
      "EditedText": "Is a question's priority decided on the basis of urgency in terms of time or whether it is deemed to be more important? If I lodge a trivial question and Gil lodges a much weightier question, will his get answered before mine?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 495934,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that many of those issues are bureau matters rather than standing orders matters. We should look at this again in the medium term rather than coming to a decision based on this report on issues such as those.The report does not seek an improvement in the quality of answers. That is a debating point. I think that we are all capable of doing our own monitoring. The Executive is considering a number of aspects of questions, but we could ask the bureau also to monitor how questions are being handled for our report for May. We all agree that we want questions to be dealt with responsibly and constructively by all sides."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 495936,
      "EditedText": "Iain, could the Executive cope with such a reverse to the practice at Westminster? Instead of the member saying that they wanted a reply by a certain date, the Executive would have to say that it would respond within two weeks, three weeks or whatever."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 495937,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that would require a change to standing orders. It is an issue of good practice, which should be raised with the Executive secretariat. When holding answers are given, members should ask for an indication of the likely time scale for receiving an answer. I have raised that issue in relation to correspondence from members, which is another problem. Guidance must be given not only on questions, but on when members can expect a reply to correspondence. I am certainly happy to ask the Executive secretariat to examine the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 495943,
      "EditedText": "Procedures for emergency legislation are a highly technical issue. It is important to get them right—we cannot rush into it. Time is not as important as getting it right. The issue should not be an urgent priority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1750976+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 495944,
      "EditedText": "It is an issue that needs to be dealt with in the medium term, if I may use that term again. It should be on the committee's work programme. The technicalities of emergency legislation could usefully form part of a discussion by or presentation to the committee. We need to get our minds round the technicalities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 495946,
      "EditedText": "Do we have the time to consider it as a medium-term issue? What is the work load and can we cope with it? Emergency legislation is a fairly substantial area. I do not believe that it is as urgent to deal with it in the medium term as it is to deal with the previous issue. I share Donald's view that it is something that can be considered in the longer term, after next May."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 495947,
      "EditedText": "The work of going over the standing orders will never be finished. It will go on for ever. Once we get past the immediate task of completing the first trawl of work, which will take us until next May, we will be able to take decisions on our priorities. Are we agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 495950,
      "EditedText": "We will know more once members' bills start to go through. The first one is about to be timetabled. I am therefore happy with your suggestion, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 495952,
      "EditedText": "That takes us on to issue 32, on parliamentary time for smaller parties and independents. We have got nowhere on that issue. Options have been suggested at the end of the report, although Opposition representatives are unlikely to favour the suggestion to give up their limited supply of half days to single-member parties. It is clear that the Executive is not particularly anxious to deliver any more time for such members. However, a way out might be to consider that, calculating the time strictly proportionately—I have done the calculations—the three members together would be entitled to 0.8 of one half day, which may or may not be justified depending on how the position of the independent member was viewed. That translates into about one hour per member in a parliamentary year. Therefore, it might be reasonable to suggest that smaller parties and independents have the opportunity—admittedly, the same opportunity as every other member—to make a political point or to debate a matter of importance to them within members' business at 5 o'clock, given that the Presiding Officer is interpreting members' business to cover not just constituency matters, but general issues, such as football and domestic violence. Perhaps we could recommend to the Presiding Officer that it would be reasonable to allow all those chaps a minimum of one opportunity for members' business a year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 495953,
      "EditedText": "That is a possible solution, but in the interests of fairness to single-member parties and independents, I am much more attracted to options 2(a) and 2(b). It is not too much to ask that such members be allowed one half day of parliamentary time per year. That is fair and we would want the same thing if we were in their position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 495955,
      "EditedText": "Indeed, but I was thinking more of the Liberal Democrats, who are likely to be in that position much more quickly than we are. Perhaps we could have a half day for the Hamilton Accies supporters. We should accept options 2(a) and 2(b)."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 495956,
      "EditedText": "Convener, you raised an important point in your introduction to the item: even if the three single-member party or independent members were grouped together, they would be barely entitled to one half day. It is important to allocate non-Executive days on a proportional basis, rather than on the basis of every party or independent being entitled to one half day. We might have three single members at the moment, but after the next election there might be half a dozen or 20 single members—we do not know how it will work out under the proportional representation system. We should not set a precedent that every person who represents a party is entitled to a half day's debate, or we could end up with the parliamentary timetable being dictated by the people who are elected to the Parliament, rather than by the proportion that each party has in the Parliament. I am not against the principle of single-member parties having a fair proportion of parliamentary time—it is right that they should—but I am against them getting more than their fair share of parliamentary time, which is what options 2(a) and 2(b) suggest. We need to consider ways of accommodating single-member parties fairly and proportionately. That might mean their receiving one half day a year among the three of them or one half day each every three years. Whatever happens, we cannot afford to get into a situation where we keep giving individual members extra days, because it will eat into the time for meetings of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 495957,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Iain. We will set a difficult precedent if we go down that road now. We have already discussed how to deal with the increase in parliamentary time and have passed the buck a bit by passing the matter back to the bureau. Option 2(a) would have to link into the decision on increasing parliamentary time, which has not yet been taken. I still favour the Executive's suggestion that we should consider the idea of allocating some of the existing 15 half days for non-Executive business to single-member parties and independents. How that is done is open to debate, as it is obviously difficult to allocate each of the three members one half day. The matter must be examined more closely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 13456,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 495958,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to do a couple of things at once. In the first instance, we must be clear that we are talking about legitimate political parties. The two parties concerned are doing relatively well in the country. The model that we set should give them space within the Parliament. If we do not allow them that, the public might think that we are trying to lock out their opinions, and the Parliament would suffer as a result. We can make changes in the future if a different configuration of political parties arrives in the Parliament. At the same time, Scotland has a history of independents, which may be resurrected in the near future. That must be catered for. Given the composition of the Parliament now, the fairest model would be for single-member parties to be allocated one half day, and for independents in general—not Dennis Canavan specifically—to be allocated a half day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 495959,
      "EditedText": "It is unreasonable to take away time from the Scottish National party and the Conservatives to give to other parties. The Parliament should allow the three individual members to have a reasonable say. Much as I have a high personal regard for Dennis Canavan, he is in a different situation from the other two members. I therefore support option 2(a), but am in favour of us advising the Presiding Officer to look favourably on giving Dennis time during members' business. Another issue arises from the fact that the Green representative was not called on to speak in a debate on transport, which is a green issue. It is difficult to dictate to the Presiding Officer on such things, but the issue must be addressed. My position is that I do not support option 1; I would support option 2(a), although I would not go to the wall for it; and I support giving independents a right to bring one motion each year under members' business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 495961,
      "EditedText": "But they made the request."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 495963,
      "EditedText": "It would be grossly unfair if we were to suggest that three parties, or two parties, be thrown together to come up with a debate that suited them, which is the suggestion that Andy is making."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 495966,
      "EditedText": "That is okay: I can agree with that—well, I do not agree with it, but I understand the point, so I withdraw my previous comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 495967,
      "EditedText": "We could have three one-hour debates, and they are happy, or we could have one full debate or two one-and-a-half-hour debates. It would be up to the members to allocate their time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 495969,
      "EditedText": "Can we then clarify option 2(a)? Andy has suggested that, essentially, option 2(a) would be acceptable if we were allocating a half day and then dividing it. Donald's proposal for option 2(a) means that we would give the small parties a half day each. If we are to arrive at a consensus, we must be clear what we recommend. Will we recommend option 2(a), with a half day for the two small parties, or will we recommend a half day in which the two small parties get a quarter day each?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 495974,
      "EditedText": "The precedent is that every single-member party in this Parliament gets a half day. That is a dangerous precedent to set, because it is not based on proportions and the membership of parties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 495975,
      "EditedText": "But neither are the 15 half days. You made the point about the 15 half days, Iain, as if it was set by the proportions in the Parliament. It is not. If we were to set time according to the proportions in the Parliament, it would be done very differently. While I understand the point that you are making, Iain, I do not think that there is any validity in it. We should be debating the rights of parties that are elected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 495977,
      "EditedText": "It is not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 495981,
      "EditedText": "The principle is that the time cannot be sub-divided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 495983,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that what Andy says takes away the half-day currency: we will still work in half-day blocks. The members will get a half-day between them. They can ballot it, or take it in turns, or take it in alphabetical order—whatever they want to do. It will still be a half day. The fair compromise would be to say that a half day is available to them; a half day each is too much, and would not be a fair compromise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495987",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 495987,
      "EditedText": "With due respect, I am not saying that I do not recognise that right. I am saying that we have limited time available. There is Executive time; there is Opposition time. Working within what is available, this is the best solution. There is no disrespect to the Greens, the SSP or indeed to Dennis Canavan as an individual. It is all about the management of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495990",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 495990,
      "EditedText": "Yes, on the understanding that we know what the extra half day is for: for the allocation of appropriate time to single-member parties. We are not allocating the time to the independent. Our view on the independent is that he is, essentially, a member for Falkirk West. He can push Falkirk West issues, quite legitimately, through members' motions. It would be reasonable for Sir David to feel that he might want to give Dennis Canavan a slightly fairer crack of the whip—not unreasonably so. Dennis should have the opportunity to put forward the issues that are important to him as the member for Falkirk West."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13456,
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      "ID": 13456,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 495991,
      "EditedText": "That is not to imply that Dennis has had an unfair crack so far. I am just picking up on the term that you used, convener. I think that we are saying that he obviously needs some special consideration, given his special status."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 495996,
      "EditedText": "Can we just agree? It is straightforward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 496004,
      "EditedText": "Are we all agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 496005,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 496008,
      "EditedText": "I now refer to the extra paper that members received, which contains new issues 38 and 39. Issue 38 refers to the handling of Scottish statutory instruments. Do you not have that paper, Iain?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C496009",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 496009,
      "EditedText": "I do not have it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 496013,
      "EditedText": "Time is taken up by having a motion in Parliament on lead committees. The Parliamentary Bureau asked us to examine that point, because it thought it a rather cumbersome way of going about matters. Am I correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 496014,
      "EditedText": "Yes. On some occasions, the bureau has been rushed into including the motion, or the business motion has had to be changed through a subsequent amendment agreed by bureau members outwith the committee. I am happy with the proposed solution, but the one thing that I request is that the bureau continue to receive notification of all matters, and that the Parliament continue to receive it. That the decision is made by the clerks except in cases of dispute is entirely sensible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496027",
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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  {
    "ID": "C496030",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "First Meetings",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C496032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Topical Questions",
      "HeadingID": 13458,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 508.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 496032,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C496035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 13459,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 496035,
      "EditedText": "All that will be addressed in the paper that will be submitted for further discussion at the next meeting. It would be pertinent to ensure that the decision of the conveners liaison group and its recommendations on its own status were relayed to the bureau for its consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C496036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 13459,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 513.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 496036,
      "EditedText": "They have been."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1907243+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 12927,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 478323,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 478324,
      "EditedText": "I will begin by introducing the representatives from the Electoral Reform Society: Ken Ritchie, the chief executive, James Gilmour and Peter Facey. They will give a presentation, after which there will be an opportunity for questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478335",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 478335,
      "EditedText": "I would like a little more information about the systems that are operated in other countries. First, you mentioned various countries that use STV at the local level. What is the turnout in those countries? Secondly, there has not been much mention of Europe. What systems operate in European countries?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478325",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie (Electoral Reform Society): ",
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      "EditedText": "Thank you for that welcome and the invitation. We have circulated copies of some of the transparencies I am going to use. We have been asked to talk about electoral systems and we will focus on the three that have been suggested by the McIntosh commission as worth attention: AMS, the additional member system, AV-plus, the alternative vote plus and STV, single transferable vote. Research for the commission pointed out that a number of systems could be devised for local government in Scotland. If you would like us to comment on other systems, we are happy to do so. The McIntosh report pointed out that choice of an electoral system depends on how you want it to perform, not in terms of how people will vote and outcomes, but according to what are seen as the important criteria. I propose that we briefly run through the criteria that were identified as important by McIntosh. We can then move on to a consideration of the systems. If members feel that there are certain things that they would like us to focus on, they should let us know and we will adapt accordingly.The criteria are proportionality, the councillor-ward link, a fair provision for independents to ensure that any system does not discriminate against independents, the allowance for geographic diversity, and the close fit between council wards—what we have called \"natural communities\". I shall return to those criteria in more detail. Most needs to be said about the first one, proportionality. We are talking about proportional representation. Electoral reform is not just about proportional representation, and some people might argue the converse. Clearly, we want fairness for all parties. In many areas, parties get a significant number of votes but little representation. Most voters vote according to party affiliation and if we do not have fairness for parties we do not have fairness for voters.Not all voters vote simply by party. McIntosh makes the point that we should also seek proportional representation to bring in other community interests. People might select the candidates whom they want to support by gender, age, ethnicity, or particular policies that lie outside the normal party debate. All sorts of factors might enter into their choice. Some electoral systems aim to provide fairness and proportional representation simply by party, but others try to go further, to allow, to some extent, representation by the criteria that the voters think are important.An important aspect of proportionality is that, in a proportional system, many more votes are going to count. In far too many wards, voters can vote one way or another futilely, as those wards are always won by the same party. That is a huge disincentive for the voter, as voting does not make much sense. There is no great incentive for parties to campaign in those areas, and party organisation tends to become moribund. We do not claim that proportional representation will solve all those problems, but we want all voters to have an interest in voting. Their votes will contribute to a larger total that will determine how seats are allocated, and there will be a better chance of breathing new life into local democracy where there are appallingly low turnouts.The retention of the councillor-ward link is clearly important. We feel that the elected representative should be accountable to the voters so that if the voters are not satisfied they can remove and change their representative at a future election. The link must be seen as two-sided. On the one hand the councillor must be linked to an identified ward; on the other, voters are entitled to feel that somebody has the job of representing their interests. Slide 4 on the retention of the councillor-ward link says:\"All wards should have (a) councillor(s) responsible for raising ward issues\".I put councillor or councillors, because one cannot have a proportional system without having more than one representative for an area. With single-member wards, the person who has an absolute majority—or a majority over the other parties—is the representative; voters for other parties cannot be represented. Proportionality can be achieved in different ways. As members know, the Scottish Parliament has a system whereby a number of members are identified with constituencies, while others are elected through top-up lists. That model, with two categories of representation, is one option. The other option is to have multi-member wards in which all councillors are elected on the same basis. I will return to that point when I talk about systems, as there is a fairly important difference between the two. It has been argued that there ought to be fair provision for independents in local government. We accept that independents are often disadvantaged because they do not have a party machine to campaign on their behalf. However, certain types of system, which focus on proportionality by party, tend to view independents as one-person parties or may put pressure on independents to combine into a type of pseudo-party, which many independents do not want to do. As a result, independents can be discriminated against. The McIntosh commission pointed to the great diversity that exists in our country: there are areas in the Highlands and Islands where wards are geographically large and areas in cities with high concentrations of population. McIntosh was keen to consider how we can achieve a system that copes with both extremes. Linked to that was the fit between council wards and natural communities—we all know of ward boundaries that run through the middle of a street or divide areas that clearly have the same problems and characteristics. Some systems allow boundaries to be drawn more flexibly than others—with multi-member wards, for example, there can be flexibility on size—and so get round such problems. Those are the five criteria proposed by McIntosh for choosing a voting system. I do not suggest for one moment that all five are as important as each other. There may be other factors that the committee or the working group on renewing local democracy will want to take into consideration. I move on now to discuss the three systems that were recommended. Members will be familiar with the additional member system, as it was used for elections to the Scottish Parliament. The additional member system has been used since the war in Germany and was recently introduced in New Zealand. However, we have no knowledge of its being used at local government level. In Germany, the system is used for elections in the Länder, but those tend to be much larger units. The system tends to be used in situations where people are being elected as legislators, rather than as ward representatives. A move towards the additional member system would, therefore, be a bit of a first at local government level. The role of top-up councillors—the people who are elected from the lists as distinct from those who are elected from wards—under the additional member system would have to be considered. I know that the two categories of elected representative in the Parliament are a point of discussion and that it may be some time before the roles are properly developed. What would happen in local government under the additional member system is perhaps a separate issue. I know from discussions on modernising local government that there are new models involving elected provosts and cabinet structures within councils, so it could be argued that there will be two categories of member anyway—those who deal more with the ward duties and those who deal with more strategic policies. The additional member system does not provide those two categories. The largest party would tend to get most of the ward seats and the smaller parties would tend to win their seats through the top-up lists. If one compares the make-up of the Scottish Parliament with what might happen in a council, it can be seen that most of the Labour members might end up with ward case work, while other parties could be exclusively concerned with political strategy—that would clearly make a nonsense of local government.The ratio of ward to top-up councillors is what determines the level of proportionality. It also depends partly on the absolute number of seats as it would be possible, as slide 9 shows, to have a top-up list for an entire council or to split the top-up seats by area. The Scottish Parliament does not have a single top-up list for the whole of Scotland, but has parcels of roughly 12 seats of which seven are constituency seats and five are top-up seats. The more top-up members there are, the more proportional the system can be. Of course, the downside is that the more top-up seats there are, the more councillors there are who do not have a strong link with the electorate. They will be people who owe their seats more to their positions in the party, perhaps, than to direct election. There are implications for boundaries, to which I will return in a moment.If the top-up ratio is small, most councillors will have good links, but proportionality will not be that great. As I have said on slide 10, there is the increased risk of tactical voting. When one party is expected to win so many of the ward seats that it does not mean much to vote for that party in the top-up lists, there is a danger that voters will vote for another party in the top-up lists. Large top-up ratios will have good proportionality. As the slide shows, councillors without a ward link are much more numerous and ward sizes are larger. If there is no increase in the number of councillors, the number of ward councillors has to be reduced to make space for top-up councillors; the number of wards has to be reduced and the size of wards increased. Unless there is a full-scale redrawing of boundaries, which would be a massive exercise, the options for change are more limited. Possible options include combining every four wards into three down to combining pairs of wards. In each case there are implications for the ratio and number of ward councillors. Combining pairs of wards need not mean as many councillors from the top-up list as I have suggested; you could have 30 and 20 and reduce the overall number. To summarise, the additional member system gives proportionality but by party because calculating top-up seats is by party. For that reason AMS discriminates against independents. They may have a fair chance in the wards but not in top-up seats. A downside is that it creates two categories of councillor, with the top-up group of councillors having only weak links to the electorate. The second system that the McIntosh commission suggested was worth looking at is alternative vote plus. The terminology is new and comes from the Jenkins commission, which recommended AV-plus for Westminster elections. It has not yet been used but that is not a downside, as we should manufacture the system that meets our particular needs. AV-plus is a form of additional member system but improves on it by the use of the alternative vote in electing ward representatives, and when it comes to the top-up lists it gives people a choice not just of parties but of the candidates within the party. Some of you will be familiar with the alternative vote as many parties use it internally in the form of an eliminating ballot where it means going through a process until one candidate has not only a majority over the others but more than 50 per cent of the vote. On slide 14 there is an example of how it would work with four candidates: Forsyth may start as the front runner with 73 votes, but out of 200 that is well under half, although in a first-past-the-post election Forsyth would win. Thompson, with only 42 votes, is the first to be eliminated."
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      "EditedText": "No he is not—Campbell is."
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  {
    "ID": "C478327",
    "Meeting": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
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      "EditedText": "I beg your pardon, Campbell with 18 votes is. We then redistribute the second preferences on the ballot papers for Campbell. Still no one passes the 100 mark so Thompson is eliminated and in the end Munro wins. Many political parties use it and I hope it is fairly easy to understand. The advantage of this system is that whoever wins a ward seat has the positive support of more than half of the voters—not necessarily as their first choice but at least their support. That means that at least half the voters will feel satisfaction in the result and have a councillor in whom they can have some confidence. In addition, there is no need for the tactical voting that mars so many of our elections. People do not have to think, \"Should I vote for my first choice of party, because it may not do very well? I am more intent on beating another party. Let me use my vote for the party that I think can defeat the one that I most want to be defeated.\" With the alternative vote plus system, people can vote for the candidates who they really want to win. A voter may want the Natural Law party to win, but if it is eliminated, the vote has not disappeared—it simply moves on to the voter's second choice, and so on until there are only two candidates left. The system asks voters, \"If the choice is between those two candidates, who would you choose?\" The system increases the choice open to voters and means that voters do not need to go through a guessing game. It means that parties can campaign honestly for positive support rather than the usual round-the-streets campaigning of, \"I know you support them but they don't stand a chance, so why not support us?\" The alternative vote plus system can lead to a much more positive approach to an election campaign. In giving voters a choice of who they vote for in the top-up lists, we are moving from what are called closed lists, which were used for the European elections where the choice of candidate was closed to the voter, to lists where that choice is open to the voter. A ballot paper might look something like the one shown on slide 15, so that a voter wanting to support party A could choose which candidate to support. The votes for the parties count in exactly the same way as before—the seats are allocated. However, even if party A's favoured candidate was Anderson, if McLeod received more votes than Anderson and there was only one seat available, the seat would go to McLeod. The voters determine the order of the list, which means that there is that extra accountability to the electorate from those who are elected. To sum up the alternative vote plus system, there is more choice for the voters, tactical voting is eliminated and there are better prospects for independents. In many cases, people may vote for a party and if they are to be given a second choice, they may not wish to move to another party, preferring to recognise a strong independent candidate who might be worth supporting. There are indications that, under this sort of system, independents do not lose out. The open lists increase accountability and, even if there were additional members or top-up members, at least they have more democratic legitimacy than might be the case otherwise. I now move to the third system—the single transferable vote, which is quite different from the other two systems. It has been used in Northern Ireland for both local government and European elections and has been used for all elections in the Republic of Ireland since the 1920s. In Scotland, it was used until 1928 for separate elections for education authorities. There are many professional organisations, such as trade unions and the National Trust that also make use of it. Slide 18 refers to the main features of the system. In the additional member system, there are two ballot papers—one for the constituency and one for the party. In the single transferable vote system, there is only one ballot paper, which would look the same as the alternative vote paper used for ward elections using alternative vote plus. All members are elected on the same basis. There would be a group—typically four to six members, although there may be fewer in rural areas—each member of which has equal legitimacy. It is broadly proportional by party, but it allows the voter as much choice as possible, so that if voters decided that they wanted to vote on, say, fox hunting, or Europe as their major concern, they would be able to do that. The result would be broadly proportional by these other criteria. All the people are elected individually, which preserves the element of accountability. Candidates may be elected on the basis of their party affiliations, but the electoral system treats them as individuals. That does not discriminate against independents. A final point to consider is that significant boundary changes would not be needed. We are talking about multi-member wards in which there can be flexibility in the number of seats in each ward—a flexibility that can be extended even in a local authority ward. By a process of amalgamating wards, we could form new multi-member wards without needing to enter into a drastic exercise of changing existing boundaries.I propose to give members a simplified account of STV, to give an impression of how it produces particular results. Please tell me if this is old hat or unnecessary. For simplicity, I have assumed that there are eight candidates contesting four seats. Two parties have each put up two candidates, and there are a couple of independents.There are 500 votes in total. The first thing to do is to calculate a quota that is the number of votes that a candidate must receive to be elected. With 500 votes, the quota is, in this case, 100 votes for a seat. If four candidates receive at least 100 votes each—we will assume that five candidates would not receive exactly the same number of votes—a fifth cannot receive 100, which is the target. According to the voting figures shown on the slide, Fraser, who has received 150 votes, would be elected straight away.In a first-past-the-post election, if a candidate wins a huge majority, there are many wasted votes; moreover, that candidate would be elected even if the majority was only one vote. With a single transferable vote, votes are not wasted in the same way. If somebody has a surplus of votes, that surplus can be transferred. In this case, Fraser has 150 votes although he needed only 100. One third of those—50 votes—must be transferred, which gives us this result: Fraser is elected, but let us assume that even with the transferred votes nobody else has reached the 100 quota. Let us also assume that most of Fraser's 150 votes would be transferred to candidates of party B. As would happen under the alternative vote system, the person who has the smallest number of votes is eliminated. In the case illustrated on the slide, that would now be Evans in party A. If he is eliminated, his 35 votes would generally be transferred to the other candidates within his or her party—Allan and Campbell.The quota is 100 votes, so no more candidates have been elected. We therefore continue to eliminate candidates, in this case Robertson, although not as many of his votes will go back to his party, as there has already been a fairly big transfer. Nevertheless, with 105 votes, McLeod has more than the 100 mark and we continue with the process. If there is a surplus, it is transferred, as it may help somebody at the bottom of the list. If a candidate cannot be saved by a transfer, the person at the bottom is eliminated."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C478331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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      "ID": 147
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
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      "EditedText": "My apologies. I see that a column has been left off the slide, showing the process for splitting up Fraser's 150 votes, of which we want to transfer only 50. The danger if we simply had a lucky dip into the voting papers would be that we could pull out a sample of votes in favour of one party or another. What we do instead is to look at all the votes that have generated the surplus and transfer the corrected proportion of the votes to the other candidates—a fraction of the votes is carried forward to each.The example that I have used shows how the process might carry on until there is a close contest at the bottom of the list between two independent candidates, Smith and Williamson, and between two people from party A, Allan and Campbell. An independent, Williamson, loses out. Many people might prefer to transfer their votes to the other independent candidate, so that Smith is elected, but some help to elect Allan at the top. What are the messages? If we take the three candidates from party B together, party B has more than 200 votes in total, which is enough to get two candidates elected. However, all the votes were stacked up on one candidate—Fraser, with 150 votes. The party does not lose out, however, because if people's second votes are transferred to other candidates of the same party—most people vote with some party loyalty—the party can use that surplus to ensure that two of its people are elected. In party A, which had the three names at the top, there was a fairly close contest between Allan and Campbell, which, in the end, was resolved by votes from outside the party. Although people will mainly vote by party, STV also favours candidates who have a broad base of support and can attract second and subsequent preferences. For that reason, the system is useful for independents, as they will often pick up second and subsequent preferences from other parties. In the Irish Republic, about 10 per cent of councillors are independents, which more or less matches the number of first preference votes that they received. It is also possible for small parties to do well. The Green party has succeeded in getting members elected to the Irish Parliament even though it had a small number of first preference votes, because the party has been given subsequent preference votes and have won through in that way. The system gives a broadly proportional outcome allowing representation of different opinions, including smaller parties. As I said, the system provides some flexibility in implementation. We recommend that four to six seats per ward would normally be ideal to give a good level of proportionality. In a rural area, a six-member ward could be geographically rather large. There is a trade-off between the geographic size of the constituency and the desired level of proportionality. In a rural area, a ward of either three or four seats might be preferable, and in extreme examples there might be a two or even a single-member seat. I am thinking of an island that constitutes one ward or of areas in the Highlands where multi-member wards can be so big that councillors would find it difficult to get round the entire ward. I have summarised our comparison of the systems. The additional member system clearly gives proportionality by party, as does AV-plus. STV is the only system that gives broader proportionality, if voters use other significant criteria to decide how to vote. Under STV, everybody is elected on the same basis and has the same sort of link with their ward. Under AMS and AV-plus, some are ward councillors with a strong link, although perhaps not as strong as the current link because wards will be larger. The downside is that the additional members do not have as strong a link. AMS is disadvantageous to independents; the transferable voting in AV-plus or STV gives them a better chance. As I said, under STV there can be flexibility in how constituencies are put together. Unless the option of pairing wards—with half the number of ward councillors—is chosen, ward boundaries would to some extent have to be redrawn in order to implement either AMS or AV-plus. As the committee will can see from these criteria, the Electoral Reform Society comes down in favour of STV. In saying that, we welcome the lead that Scotland has taken in going for a proportional system and we believe that any of the systems that we have looked at have a lot more to offer than the existing first-past-the-post system. We will be happy to discuss other systems, or to help in any further way that you feel appropriate."
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, Ken. That was interesting. This is a complex issue—the more one hears about it, the more complex it seems to become. Does anyone have any questions?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478339",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
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      "EditedText": "One of the things that concerned me about the Scottish Parliament elections was the length of the second ballot paper: the Lothians one was about 18 in long and featured 16 or 17 choices, some of which made a mockery of the democratic process. How would that tendency be controlled? I am not talking only about the joke candidates: in Lothians, 10,000 votes went to the Socialist Labour party, which has no strong base in the country. I believe that many who voted for that party were trying to vote for the Scottish Labour party. A few years ago, somebody stood as a Literal Democrat and took a large number of votes from the Liberal Democrats."
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  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478342",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
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      "EditedText": "I have always thought that a way round having all these dafties on the list is by stipulating that a candidate cannot ride on the back of the list if his or her party does not pay a deposit and has a candidate standing for the first-past-the-post seat. However, that was not going to be my suggestion. Parties are eternal optimists. The SNP put 12 candidates on the Glasgow list. We also had 10 candidates running for first-past-the-post seats, so I suppose we were trying to hedge our bets.McIntosh did us a favour by recommending only three electoral systems to choose from. I have a list of the electoral systems used in each European Union country. Each country uses some form of proportional representation in local government, all of which seem to be completely different. I will not bore the committee by reading out the details of those systems, but if members want to see the list, I can hand copies around. How closely has the Electoral Reform Society examined other European systems, and is the organisation convinced that the three recommended systems are the best systems to consider in detail for Scotland?"
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 478347,
      "EditedText": "You were right the first time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 478349,
      "EditedText": "So, in other words, you think that those are the three best options."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Facey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 478350,
      "EditedText": "I think that they are the most realistic options for Scottish politics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 478351,
      "EditedText": "One of the issues that you have highlighted is that there is a problem in the way that people participate in the democratic process of the first-past-the-post system. You mentioned that there were wards in which it is pointless to vote because an overwhelming number of people will vote for one candidate. In certain geographical areas they vote for a candidate because of historical links.That is not an inflexible situation. If people participate actively in the democratic process, that can change. It is not an inevitable part of the first-past-the-post system. People are not always blind to the possibility of changing their party loyalties. There have been by-elections in which the shift has been quite dramatic. We must be careful that we do not associate problems with a system that are not the result of that system but of something historical. There is a base vote for a number of political parties and that creates problems in attempting to achieve proportionality.It is interesting to me that McIntosh identifies a series of criteria, which, as they are broken down, result in STV appearing to be the most effective system. Are there any other criteria that you would include, and which do you think are the most important? Is there a case to be made for including accountability?I made a point about a base vote that can be shifted. That is the easiest way to remove someone who is not doing his or her job. Local people can identify such a representative and put pressure on them; it is simple to vote them out of office. Do the other systems that you have identified allow for that? What are the difficulties with that, and do you think that it is important?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 478354,
      "EditedText": "We have not tried today to address the arguments for a change away from the first-past-the-post system to a more proportional system. I have been more concerned to deal with the arguments about which proportional system might be appropriate. I agree that no system will achieve absolutely everything. I hope that it does not become a choice of the least bad system, as it should be a choice of the most good—if members will excuse the grammar.I do not think that there is any question of saying that voters are stupid under the first-past-the-post system: they are not stupid, as they know how to use their vote tactically. They see that, by voting for certain candidates, they can make a protest gesture and many will decide to make that gesture. However, if they want to influence the result, they know that there are many wards in Scotland that are very strong Labour wards and there are others that are equally strongly held by other parties and voters cast their votes accordingly. We want a system that liberates the voters so that they can vote on the basis of what they believe—we want a system that will take account of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 478357,
      "EditedText": "The issues about seats being uncontested and weak party structures are about more than the electoral system and people's understanding of it. I agree with many of the points that have been made. I do not see the first-past-the-post system as being perfect. There are other problems, but we are not necessarily identifying the solutions by focusing on electoral systems alone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 478359,
      "EditedText": "That is the kind of loyalty that we enjoy. The Liberal Democrats got it right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Gilmour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 478364,
      "EditedText": "That would be an extremely difficult study to undertake, because at the time the voters look at the list, they do not know whether the people at the top of list are likely to have already won first-past-the-post constituency seats. The relevance of the ranking on the lists is not immediately apparent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 478371,
      "EditedText": "It is possible that the person who is elected by those final fractions is even more accountable. I see accountability in terms of the electorate being able to remove a councillor who they do not feel has been performing as they would like. The electoral system has to give the electorate the power to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 478372,
      "EditedText": "It does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 478374,
      "EditedText": "Someone who has been repeatedly elected under the first-past-the-post system, albeit by a minority of the people, must be doing something right. If people do not come together to remove that person, but continually re-elect him or her under the first-past-the-post system, is that person not accountable and responsible in the same way as he or she would be if elected by a small percentage in the fourth count?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 478376,
      "EditedText": "Mrs Thatcher?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 478384,
      "EditedText": "In the Highlands and Islands, that wider ward might be the size of Belgium. Would it not be better to take STV to its logical conclusion, and allow votes to transfer within a single ward? There would be the benefit of the first-past-the-post system, in that a single person would be elected, but the result would be based on the most popular person among all the voters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 478390,
      "EditedText": "I was involved in some of the early discussions about electoral systems for the Scottish Parliament. One of the arguments for the two-vote system was that, because of tactical voting, if people had only one vote and the proportional vote was taken off that, the result would not be a true reflection of people's opinions. I used to tell people that having two votes would allow people to vote with their heads in the first ballot and with their hearts in the second. The second vote should have given a pure representation of people's instincts. In fact, it did not happen like that, because people used their votes in a perfectly legitimate, but different, way. You said that in 1997, if the alternative vote system had been used, there would not have been a proportional result. However, people voted tactically in 1997 in greater numbers than at any time before then. For historical reasons, the progressive forces—if that is how one wants to describe them—were split, and people all over the country made hard decisions about how to vote, based on what they saw in the opinion polls. If the alternative vote system had been used, would the results that you have extrapolated have been different if people had not voted tactically? Is the AV system flawed, or do the flaws become evident because we are dealing with figures produced by a distorted first-past-the-post system in which people vote tactically?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 478392,
      "EditedText": "That is why I was asking why you would roll that out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 478396,
      "EditedText": "Bristow, could you make your point quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 478397,
      "EditedText": "With regard to the point that was made about people's votes counting and people voting for what they believe in, is not it also the case that any top-up system has the problem that people may vote tactically? For example, if someone in Glasgow believed that it was likely that the Labour party would not get any top-up seats, they would say, \"I will vote for my second-choice party in order to get the result that I desire.\" I am aware of people who strongly support Labour but who took that view in the elections."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 478398,
      "EditedText": "That undoubtedly is a problem with the system. It only happens in areas in which one party is very strong. The more top-up seats that are available, the more likely it is that people will still be inclined towards supporting their party at the top-up level, because their party can still win seats. However, if the top-up is much smaller, a person may be sure that their party will not gain from the top-up and therefore may vote for what they regard as their second-choice party."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 478402,
      "EditedText": "I am going to start, although it would have been helpful if everyone had been here for the next item. The committee has been given a paper detailing which councils each committee member has been—in inverted commas—\"allocated\". That allocation has been made mostly on the basis of where members showed an interest in visiting. We have tried to give everyone as much choice as possible; however, Donald has told me that he is only down for two visits and that he would like some more. I am sure that we can sort that out.If members want to swap visits, that's fine. Initially, it would be helpful if members changed with another committee member from their own political party so that we can retain a balance. However, if that is not possible, I am open to negotiation. If members have anything awful to say about their allocation, they can do so, but I will probably not pay much attention to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 478403,
      "EditedText": "Will it be possible to examine comparative systems abroad?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 478406,
      "EditedText": "The balance was based initially on what interest had been shown in which council. However, it is not a problem to go back to the list and change things around."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 478407,
      "EditedText": "I was going to make the same point, convener. Each of the visit groups should have a Labour representative and possibly an SNP representative as well. The Aberdeen City Council group stands out in that respect. Furthermore, I do not understand why some groups have three or four members and the Clackmannanshire group has only two."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 478408,
      "EditedText": "That is because it is a quality group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 478411,
      "EditedText": "You can put me down for Clackmannanshire as a start."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 478419,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Council Tax",
      "HeadingID": 12930,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ID": 12930,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 478420,
      "EditedText": "The next piece of business concerns students and council tax. You will have received a copy of the letter from the City of Edinburgh Council about the problems it is having with students' council tax. The problems are not peculiar to Edinburgh; all councils have them. I do not consider this an emergency—we do not have to look at it today. We need more information on this complex matter and I suggest that we ask SPICe for more information, distribute that to you, and then bring the matter back to a committee meeting.The matter must be addressed and this committee is the place to do it, but resolving it might require a change in legislation. To do that we would need more information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 478429,
      "EditedText": "We could consider that once we have had Jack's reply. If he says, \"Okay, fine, I will do it\" there will be no point in calling the councils. If not, we might wish to pursue evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 478430,
      "EditedText": "Part of the establishment argument has been that if Argyll and Bute gets more, other island areas will get less. That seems an unsound argument. There is no reason why the island part of the budget could not be slightly increased, thereby allowing Argyll and Bute to get extra funding, and not at the expense of other island areas. This question has been discussed for many years by the distribution committee, but always on the basis that other areas will get less if Argyll and Bute gets more. The distribution committee always hedges its bets, and that forum does not work. There must be another group—such as ourselves—that exercises the judgment of Solomon and chops various bits of money in half."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 478432,
      "EditedText": "The approach that is being suggested is appropriate. I do not want to comment either way because I do not have the knowledge on which to make a judgment at this stage, but I think that we should resist the temptation to rush into a sudden decision in favour of one particular argument. There are other arguments: Johann has put forward cases in Glasgow on the basis of poverty indicators. Others may put forward cases based on population growth in areas such as the one I represent. We must be careful not to jump to the conclusion that a particular type of authority is being treated unfairly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 478440,
      "EditedText": "Well done, Eugene."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 478441,
      "EditedText": "I only got to see his etchings. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 478445,
      "EditedText": "I already have a letter in draft to be sent out to all councils and chief executives. It will go out once we have done the mapping."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 478448,
      "EditedText": "In that case, could I raise a few points that arise from the presentation? Would it be advisable to get more information about the European systems, for example? I think it was Kenny Gibson who said that those systems would not be appropriate, but it would be good to know more about them. People have told me that countries such as Spain have a lot to offer in terms of devolved responsibility. It would be quite interesting to see the type of electoral systems that are used there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 478449,
      "EditedText": "I believe that Morag Brown of the information centre is already working on that, but the problem is that there has been little academic research covering the areas that members want to look at. We shall see what she comes up with in the next week or so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 478450,
      "EditedText": "Surely it is possible to get basic information from European countries about the systems that they operate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 478451,
      "EditedText": "I think that that will be possible, but it is difficult to do comprehensively in the required time scale and with current resources. SPICe is working on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 478454,
      "EditedText": "I asked a question on this when the people from the Electoral Reform Society were here and I have been trying to find out information on it for the past couple of months. Even John Curtice does not have the information. The Electoral Reform Society said that the three systems that have been considered have been chosen because the tradition in Britain is that there should be a ward link, and that the problem with European systems is that there is no tradition of a ward link there.It is my understanding that the 15 European Union countries have 15 systems, and that Norway has a completely different system, but it would muddy the water to examine them as none of them has the ward link that McIntosh recommends as essential. We might end up going round in circles and spending a lot of committee time for no real purpose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 478455,
      "EditedText": "We could certainly get information to you, which you could consider and decide whether to take further.It might be a good idea to set aside 10 or 15 minutes in meetings to discuss what witnesses have said and how we want to take it forward. We have done that at the end of this meeting rather than immediately after the witnesses were here—I needed a comfort break."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 478457,
      "EditedText": "We might get some of that information from Curtice when he comes. You may have a fair point. I spoke to the Electoral Reform Society witnesses and told them that we may contact them if there are things that we want to know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 478464,
      "EditedText": "He will be.Thank you all for your attendance, and I will see you next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Facey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 478336,
      "EditedText": "I cannot give you an exact answer on the continental question—the necessary academic work does not exist. In most places, variations of list systems are used—usually across the whole of a council area. One thing to be borne in mind is that council areas in Europe seem to be much smaller than they are in Britain, Ireland or the United States. The difference tends to be whether open or closed lists are used. There is a complete range of turnouts under STV. Some countries have compulsory voting, so turnouts there are not particularly relevant. Australia has compulsory voting and has turnouts of more than 90 per cent. Malta has a turnout of 96 per cent, which is the highest in the world for a country in which voting is not compulsory. One could argue that Malta is a special case because the country has a population of roughly 300,000 people. It has the highest turnout of any free democratic state. Only a country such as North Korea beats Malta on turnout.Ireland has turnouts of about 60 per cent for local government elections. The turnouts in Ireland are about 60 per cent for all elections—parish elections, European elections and Dail elections. Turnouts in Northern Ireland are also quite static—around the 55 to 65 per cent mark. Until recently, turnouts in Britain for local government elections were increasing. From a very low base there was a small, gradual increase. We used to say that the average turnout in Britain was about 40 per cent but, in the most recent local elections, there seems to have been a downward trend. It is too early to say whether that is a long-term phenomenon. Some academics argue that, because of the change in central Government, there are fewer protest votes. It is certainly true that turnout in local government elections in the UK is below continental norms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 478328,
      "EditedText": "I am a bit lost, so this may be an extremely stupid question. Which 50 votes are transferred?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Facey (Electoral Reform Society): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 478334,
      "EditedText": "Turnout for local government elections in England and Wales was about 29 per cent. A month later, it fell to about 23 or 24 per cent. There is an indication that turnout has something to do with how people rank institutions—the importance with which the institutions are regarded. Westminster is still regarded as the most important institution, with the Scottish Parliament next and the Welsh Assembly after that and so on. Turnout can also be affected by the work that political activists do on the ground. Some systems encourage activists to work in marginal wards. In local government, for example, wards that are marginal tend to have higher turnouts than safe wards, simply because of the amount of political activity that has gone into that ward—the amount of canvassing and the number of bits of paper that have gone through people's doors. If more wards become marginal, political activity is spread and that may have some effect on turnout. The problem with closed-list systems is that they do not increase activity among political activists. The experience of the European election was that political activists did not know for whom they were campaigning, so there was no increase in campaigning and therefore no increase in turnout. The alternative vote system on its own can be less proportional than first past the post and can produce greater disproportionality. For example, the Labour party would probably have had a much larger majority in the House of Commons if the general election had been held under AVS. Whatever the complaints at the moment, they are not that the Government has too small a majority; many people believe that it has too large a majority. The question is whether you believe that that is a good thing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 478337,
      "EditedText": "If we had a series of different systems for the different elections, do you think that that would affect the turnout? We already have four different systems: European, Scottish Parliament, Westminster and local government.Secondly, must AMS have two separate votes? Some people misunderstand the system and consider the second vote to be a second-choice vote. There is confusion surrounding that second vote.My third question is practical and does not relate to the electoral mechanics. As you will be aware, tensions exist between constituency MSPs and list MSPs about work load—turf wars. Would that be more exaggerated at local government level if there were to be two different classes of councillor?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 478338,
      "EditedText": "I will try to answer a couple of those questions, although my colleagues might also want to come in. We sometimes make the mistake of thinking that our electors are not as bright as they are. The experience of the Scottish and Welsh elections showed not only that people understood how to vote, but that many of them understood how to make the best use of their vote within the voting system. A few people may not have fully understood the significance of the second vote, but people did not need to know the full details of the d'Hondt system to know what to do with the party vote.In Northern Ireland, people have been using first past the post for Westminster elections and STV for local government and European elections—there have even been list systems for the elections to some bodies. People have coped with the range of electoral systems without any bother. I am not arguing that using a range of different systems is desirable, but that should not constrain us too much in choosing which system is the best for the job that has to be done.It would be possible to construct an additional member system in which each elector had only one vote—a vote for the Labour party in the constituency contest would be assumed to be a list vote for the Labour party. That system has been discussed for many years, but it significantly reduces the choices that are open to the voter.The difficulty with such an additional member system is that it maintains a first-past-the-post system in the constituency. A voter might want to support, say, a Green party candidate, but he or she would know that, in the constituency election, the contest will be between, say, Labour and the SNP and that a vote for anyone other than Labour or the SNP would be ineffective.With an additional member system, it might be possible for a voter to split his or her vote. The evidence shows that many people did that in the elections to the Scottish Parliament. People seemed to be intelligent enough to make the best use of the system. If we adopted an additional member system that used only one vote, we would restrict the choice.There are tales of political turf wars, both in Scotland and in Wales. MSPs' decisions and legislative scrutiny affect the whole of Scotland, but elected representatives in local government deal with local problems and my guess is that the problem of turf wars would become more acute if a number of councillors had no clear ward responsibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Facey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 478343,
      "EditedText": "The fundamental difference with local government and politics in Britain and Ireland is that we have a culture of ward-based politics. In most other electoral systems, candidates are elected to represent a whole geographic area. Sometimes that is broken down, but the idea of the ward, as we mean it, is quite Anglo-Saxon—or Anglo-Saxon/Celtic, at least."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 478344,
      "EditedText": "You saved yourself there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 478345,
      "EditedText": "Yes, you just about saved yourself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Facey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 478346,
      "EditedText": "I made a quick revision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 478353,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that you can have it both ways. You cannot say that, on the one hand, the problem with the first-past-the-post system is that people are stupid and that they are blinded by party loyalty and that, on the other hand, they are bright enough to deal with the sophistication of whatever political system we might present.You identified that one of the problems with the first-past-the-post system is that people's loyalty and the donkey vote distort the political process. Do you agree that, when choosing from electoral systems, the choice is not one of a perfect system against inadequate systems? In a sense, one is choosing the least bad system. On one level, voters are able to make a pure choice for their first preference for their party and to have that marked in some way. However, one's vote may not necessarily have the same weight in terms of the hard choice about who will make the decisions in local government.The SNP has experienced that in this Parliament. There is a significant body of SNP members in the Parliament that is not part of the ruling coalition. When the system is more proportional, it does not necessarily mean that the pure vote is reflected in influence, in terms of what happens after the election."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 478360,
      "EditedText": "One of the criticisms is that someone who could not face the electorate on a first-past-the-post vote could nevertheless get in as first or second on the list. Has the Electoral Reform Society examined the results of the Scottish election to find out whether, when voters went into the booth and looked at the list of names, they considered who were No 1 and No 2 for Labour, Liberal Democrat and SNP? I think that that is important when we weigh up the advantages of the additional member system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 478362,
      "EditedText": "I am giving an extreme example. I want to know what you have done to investigate whether the public took into account the list rankings and the names on the lists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Facey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 478363,
      "EditedText": "As far as I am aware, no study has been undertaken as yet to ascertain that. It would be very difficult. We would have to grab voters immediately after they leave a polling station, put them into a focus group and talk through those issues. As it is the first election, we do not know what the Scottish voters think about the system.There was some work done in the European election to discover whether voters would prefer a closed or open list. About 50 per cent of the voters gave a strong indication that they would have liked to have more say about who they could vote for and where their votes went. We know that voters are concerned about the compilation of lists, but I cannot give you an exact answer as to how that worked out under AMS in the Scottish elections."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 478365,
      "EditedText": "With respect, it was for the Labour party. So ranking is important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 478367,
      "EditedText": "It is important to the electorate. For example, in the Highlands, the electorate knew that Labour's Peter Peacock was very likely to get in. Are the names taken into consideration in your analysis? They made a big difference to the ranking, especially with the Labour party. With the SNP, I accept your point; with the Liberals, we were a mixture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 478368,
      "EditedText": "There's a surprise. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Facey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 478369,
      "EditedText": "If we take into account the experience in other countries, academics in Britain will take a number of years to catch up with what happened—academics usually look backwards rather than forwards. The names at the top of lists make a difference. Most countries that operate list systems have what they call vote getters—big names who are put at the top of the list because they drag in extra votes. Sometimes though, the people below them on the list may not be the most popular individuals. However, it will literally take years for academics to find out the effect that that had in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 478373,
      "EditedText": "If you are elected after several rounds of counting and vote transfers, you are in what might be called a vulnerable position. You would want to improve on that before the next elections."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 478375,
      "EditedText": "We are not talking about absolute blacks and whites. If, for example, in a three-way contest, someone was elected with 40 per cent of the vote, and 60 per cent of the voters absolutely detested that candidate—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 478380,
      "EditedText": "I am still not convinced that that would lead to increased accountability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 478381,
      "EditedText": "But we would not have had the poll tax."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 478386,
      "EditedText": "This is a supplementary point to the question that Jamie asked. You said that one of the problems with the elections in the spring was that voters who were voting in the first-past-the-post election did not know whether that person would be worth voting for on the list because they did not know the outcome. In certain areas of the country, electors are sophisticated enough to know in their marrows—because of national polls—that the person for whom they voted in the first-past-the-post election would not make it. They therefore made a separate judgment on people on the lists.As several people have said, the electorate is far more sophisticated than we think. There are places where the result is a racing certainty. Alex Salmond's area is an example, but there are other places where it is equally a racing certainty that the Labour party cracks it. Voters for other parties probably know that and vote out of loyalty, but make a choice on the lists that is totally unrelated to the first-past-the-post election."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 478388,
      "EditedText": "Or perhaps just most of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 478391,
      "EditedText": "It is important to remember that the introduction of a new voting system might make it necessary to rethink the starting point from which people vote. The outcome of an election does not necessarily represent people's views. It is true that a lot of people voted tactically in the previous general election. The result may therefore not properly reflect the balance of support for the different parties. However, many people did not vote tactically. There are many constituencies in which a lot of people voted Liberal Democrat and felt loyalty to that party, despite the fact that, according to the voting history of that constituency, a Liberal Democrat vote was likely to get nowhere. There are places in which Labour people continued to vote Labour although, historically, Labour was in third or fourth position, making a Labour vote purely a vote of party loyalty. Many people stuck to loyalty to their party, rather than voting in a way that could be effective. Of course, all parties were out telling their own people to boost the party vote.With the alternative vote system, that dilemma does not arise. People who want to vote Labour, Conservative, SNP or whatever, can go out and vote for their preferred party in the knowledge that, even if, historically, their party does not have any chance whatever in that area, the vote is not wasted. Once their party is knocked out, they still have a chance of saying whom they would prefer among the candidates who remain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 478394,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that it is not proportional on figures that would not give you proportionality because people are voting tactically?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 478399,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Ken, James and Peter. I hope that you do not mind that we spent longer on this issue than we thought we would, but members wanted to get their teeth into this issue.McIntosh's recommendations are for PR for local government. It is my view that the committee should recommend a voting system. We may recommend the first-past-the-post system: if one member has anything to do with it, we certainly will. Laughter. However, we are examining all systems, and I am glad that you were asked questions about other voting systems. I have questions about what McIntosh meant by the councillor-ward link, and I will pursue them with him when we meet him again. Thank you for coming along and for your presentation.We shall have a five-minute comfort break and return at quarter to 4. The clerks told me that they would put members in alphabetical order. You moved around, so I am going to separate Bristow and Kenny. We may put that to the vote when we come back: the first vote that we have ever had will be to separate those two."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 478409,
      "EditedText": "If Donald wants more visits, perhaps he would like to go to Clackmannanshire."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 478410,
      "EditedText": "We can still change things around. Some groups have four members to allow some members to visit both urban and rural councils, which is why the list sometimes looks packed. However, Eugene Windsor has just told me that if we are going to change things around, we should do so immediately. We will take on board the fact that no Labour member is visiting Aberdeen and will ensure that Donald gets some more places to visit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 478414,
      "EditedText": "Perth and Kinross, East Lothian and South Ayrshire."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 478415,
      "EditedText": "Those are all much of a muchness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Council Tax",
      "HeadingID": 12930,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ID": 12930,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 478421,
      "EditedText": "There is a lot of knowledge on the subject among city councils. I hope that you will use that information, rather than reinvent the wheel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Council Tax",
      "HeadingID": 12930,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ID": 12930,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 478422,
      "EditedText": "We will get a brief from the council—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Council Tax",
      "HeadingID": 12930,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ID": 12930,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 478423,
      "EditedText": "Presumably you will get a view from students' organisations too?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Council Tax",
      "HeadingID": 12930,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ID": 12930,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 478424,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we will get a wider brief and then we will put it on the agenda for discussion.Eugene is suggesting that we should get the information from SPICe first, examine that, and then suggest who else we might consult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Council Tax",
      "HeadingID": 12930,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ID": 12930,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 478426,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that might come up once we see the SPICe briefing and start to speak to people. Leave that with us and we will process it sooner rather than later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 478427,
      "EditedText": "A letter has come to us from the Rural Affairs Committee about the special islands needs allowance. Argyll and Bute Council is proposing that it should receive special islands needs allowance. The Executive has answered a question from Duncan Hamilton, which is reproduced at the foot of the first page of the letter. Again, I do not think that this is an emergency, but something must be done, and by this committee. There are two ways of progressing. First, we could write to Jack McConnell, the Minister for Finance, giving him some of the information that we have from Argyll and Bute and asking him what his position is on this matter. Secondly, we could ask him to the committee and question him. I have a wee question mark against that because we cannot, every time something comes up, say, \"Hey, Jack; come on—we want to question you for 20 minutes.\" Perhaps, in the first instance, I should write a comprehensive letter on the committee's behalf and ask him to comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 478433,
      "EditedText": "There are obviously different problems in different parts of Scotland, but it seems strange that an authority area that includes 27 islands should be treated differently from other island communities. That is a very odd situation, and we must find out why Argyll has been discriminated against in such a way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 478434,
      "EditedText": "You are right. We need to ask why one group of islands gets the special islands needs allowance and another does not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 478437,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 478439,
      "EditedText": "I have a few more points to make. Eugene Windsor showed me the mapping exercise he has started, and it is quite good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 478444,
      "EditedText": "Good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 478446,
      "EditedText": "By coming in late, did I miss something to do with the presentation that we had this afternoon?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 478452,
      "EditedText": "There is concern on the conveners committee about the number of researchers working for committees. Morag looks after housing and social inclusion and part of another committee's remit, as well as working for this committee. Although the information is there, it may take us some time to get it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 478453,
      "EditedText": "I raised this point with the three wise men who spoke to us earlier on—I hope that I get due credit for exercising restraint and not asking them a question. They said that this is complicated. In many countries there is more than one system; in Germany, for example, the Länder can have different local government voting systems. Many local government units are much smaller than ours, so a different voting system may be appropriate. The voting system for local government units that are the size of Brechin or Forfar might not be appropriate in a bigger area. They said that remarkably little work had been done, but two academic books touched on this issue, and they offered to send copies to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 478465,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:10."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 478329,
      "EditedText": "We do not transfer 50 individual votes. We split up the votes and transfer a third of them. So, if a person votes for Fraser on the first preference vote and for McLeod on the second preference, two thirds of each single vote would be given to Fraser and one third to McLeod."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 478330,
      "EditedText": "I want to understand this properly. The votes are allocated in proportion to the second preference votes. That is the key. If everyone voted for one person on the second preference, a third of the 150 votes—50 votes—would go to that person. The allocation is in proportion. That is why the second slide adds up to 150 votes—it shows the proportion of Fraser's votes given to each candidate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 478333,
      "EditedText": "In the elections for the Scottish Parliament and for the European Parliament—the two elections in Scotland that have had an element of proportionality—the turnouts were lower than at the general election and at the previous European election. I am dubious about the link between proportionality and encouraging the electorate to come out and vote. I am also concerned about the obsession with lists. The alternative vote system can be applied in many ways. Why do we have to have AV-plus?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 478340,
      "EditedText": "The problem with the Literal Democrat situation has been resolved now that we have registration of parties. People will no longer be able to use that name.Bristow Muldoon makes a more general point about the number of candidates. Even in first-past-the-post by-elections, there is a huge number of candidates. That problem cannot be tackled by the choice of electoral system. Many people want to stand as candidates to draw attention to themselves, to their cause or to their business, rather than to seek election. Citizens have a right to stand, but there may have to be, for example, a much tougher test in terms of the number of people who are required to propose and second a candidate.Any proportional system will result in the election of more candidates at a time and will require a larger ballot paper. The ballot papers that were used in many areas for the European elections were long but the process was simple. As far as I am aware, there is no evidence to suggest that people were put off voting by the length of the ballot paper. It is unlikely that they would have been, as they had not seen the ballot paper until they went to cast their vote.We do not want voter choice extended so far that there is no longer a meaningful choice, but the problem is not as great as some make out. I know that James has views on this matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Gilmour (Electoral Reform Society): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 478341,
      "EditedText": "There is a difference with systems that include a party list element. Our experience with AMS—which crosses over into AV-plus and the closed lists for the European Parliament—is that the party list element implicitly encourages parties to nominate as many candidates as there are potential vacancies. For example, in the Scottish Parliament elections, each party could nominate up to 12 candidates for the regional list. However, the many parties that did so had no prospect of winning all 12 seats.We can contrast that experience with the experience of countries that have used STV. As Ken has indicated, under that system parties give their supporters a wide choice. However, parties hoping to win three seats in a six-member ward would put up only four or five candidates. Very rarely would parties put up six candidates. If one party did so, all the other parties that were contesting the ward would not do the same. There is a practical realism in STV. The system offers a realistic choice to party supporters, and business managers do not waste effort putting in extra nominations to make up a full list. That is a difference between the two types of system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Facey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 478348,
      "EditedText": "I think that McIntosh went for the three systems because of the element of a ward-based link that they include.The committee could certainly examine the possibility of list systems operating in smaller areas, but that would produce its own problems. The most realistic options are in front of the committee, and they are the ones that are most acceptable to politicians and to the electorate in Scotland.I would not like to try to sell you a list system for the whole of Glasgow or, even worse, for the whole of the Highlands and Islands. That would not get very far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 478352,
      "EditedText": "We must distinguish between how voters vote and how they would like to vote under a particular system. In the first-past-the-post-system we know that there are wards where people joke that if a certain party put a donkey up for election, it would be elected. It is not a criticism of the party to say that that party dominates the ward. That party might be in the fortunate position of being in an area in which it enjoys very strong support. Other parties do not, therefore, have a chance of removing a candidate from that party. That reduces accountability.Under any proportional system, people who are not supporters of that dominant party still have a reason to vote. In the additional member system, some parties might have no hope of winning the constituency contest, but votes for them will contribute to the top-up list calculation, which will determine how well the other parties might do on a wider basis. There are people who might feel that the contest in their ward is effectively between two parties and, therefore, they might as well go out and vote for one of those two parties. Their decision will be essentially tactical, but their underlying support might be for something quite different.When it comes to the ability to remove a representative, there is more criticism of the closed list system, as the electorate did not vote for the individual but for the party. In other systems, particularly the single transferable vote system where candidates stand as individuals, if they do not perform as the electorate would wish them to, they will not receive the same number of votes next time. While one cannot make automatic comparisons with the different political culture in Ireland, it is interesting to note that, since the war, there have been two referendums in the Republic of Ireland as politicians tried to move away from the STV system, which they felt had created too strong a link of accountability. Those referendums resulted in the retention of the system.Johann Lamont asked whether there were other criteria. After proportionality, I would go for voter choice, which is implicit in some of the McIntosh recommendations. If the right of the voter to choose their representatives is stressed, that also respects the right of the voter to choose when they want to change that representative. I see voter choice as being just on the other side of accountability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 478355,
      "EditedText": "I will let Kenny in as he wishes to say something on this point. I will then call Jamie to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 478356,
      "EditedText": "Sometimes the first-past-the-post system offers no choice. In Alex Salmond's constituency, there were five wards in which there was only an SNP candidate. That would not happen under the STV system. It cannot be that 100 per cent of the voters in those wards would endorse those five SNP councillors. That takes away choice and the only question that remains is who the SNP will select as a candidate in those wards. There are other cases involving other political parties where folk are effectively unopposed because there is no structural opposition to one particular party.Johann made the point that if a candidate is abysmal, they can be put out of office. However, that depends on whether the number of people who have contact with that councillor—or who are even aware of their existence—is sufficient to overcome traditional loyalties. Under an STV system, if a party puts up three candidates and one of them has a poorer reputation than the others, those with traditional loyalties will post their votes for the two and perhaps use their third choice for someone from a completely different party. That way they can get rid of people who are not performing well at the same time as being able to exercise choice. People can be loyal to a party without having to vote for someone who they think is useless."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 478358,
      "EditedText": "I want to pursue Kenny's point about the fact that it is hard to get rid of a clown under the present system. If a seat is contested at local council or Westminster elections, it is technically possible to get rid of a bad candidate. I want to explore how much research the Electoral Reform Society has done following on from the Scottish elections. Under AMS, the list is ranked according to the system used by individual parties. With all due respect to list members here, it is possible that a clown could be No 1 on the list, simply because the party was not particularly in touch. I am sure that the Liberal Democrats would insist that Donald is a good example. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 478361,
      "EditedText": "I am shuddering about the idea that we might have to decide which of the people at the top of the lists would have been unelectable under another system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Gilmour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 478366,
      "EditedText": "How the lists are ranked is important to the parties, but you were asking about analysis of voter reaction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 478370,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to the idea of accountability and responsibility. Using the example that you gave of the single transferable vote, I am not convinced that being the fourth person elected, having received only a fraction of the votes in the first count, makes that person any more accountable or responsible than someone who is elected by the biggest number on the first count of the ballot. What makes someone who comes fourth, and has to wait until the fractions are added up, more accountable or responsible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 478377,
      "EditedText": "I shudder at the thought of mentioning names or parties, but that 60 per cent of voters may be prepared to settle for anything other than the person supported by 40 per cent. However, because there are two other candidates, the 60 per cent may well be split between them and each may get 30 per cent. Under the first-past-the-post system, it is not only a question of the person with the most votes winning the election, it could be a question of the least popular person winning. That does not seem a sensible idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 478378,
      "EditedText": "How does STV change that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 478379,
      "EditedText": "Even under the alternative vote system, if the vote for the three candidates was split 40:31:29, the candidate with 29 per cent would be eliminated, and—if the mood of the electorate was against the candidate with 40 per cent, as I have suggested—that 29 would be added to the 31, giving a result of 40:60, and the person who originally got 40 per cent would be defeated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 478382,
      "EditedText": "I have a question about accountability from a slightly different angle. On the model on the slide, is it correct that, as there are eight councillors for four wards, there would be four councillors—perhaps from four different parties—who would be accountable to the four-ward area but not to any single ward?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 478383,
      "EditedText": "The accountability would be to the wider ward of four wards put together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 478385,
      "EditedText": "If it is used in single wards, the single transferable vote boils down to the alternative vote—as I have described, that is the system that one might have if there were three candidates. As Peter has said, the alternative vote is not proportional, and can be even less proportional than the first-past-the-post system. Labour would have done better in 1997 with the alternative vote because there were many constituencies in which Labour almost pipped the Conservatives. If Labour had had transfers of votes from Liberal Democrats, it is likely that Labour would have won more seats.I do not suggest that one should opt for four-member wards in parts of the Highlands. Wards could be reduced to three members, or even to two in places. At lunch, we discussed Tiree, which might need to be a one-member ward. However, to have proportionality, there needs to be more than one member. There has to be a sensible compromise between proportionality and the geographic size of wards that councillors have to cover."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Gilmour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 478387,
      "EditedText": "I agree. ICM and The Herald published figures just before the Scottish Parliament elections that suggested that, on average, something like 23 per cent of voters were going to vote tactically; they were going to vote differently in the regional lists and the single-member constituencies. The difficulty is that, although one might know what will happen in a single-member constituency, to vote tactically with complete confidence, one needs to know what will happen in all the constituencies in that region."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12928,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "James Gilmour: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 478389,
      "EditedText": "At the Scottish Parliament election, there were two regions of Scotland in which one party took all the constituency seats. According to the best of the opinion polls that were published before the election, that was likely to happen in five, six or seven of the regions, but it did not. One needs precise information at a local level if one is to exploit that peculiarity of the two-vote proportional representation systems such as the additional member system and alternative vote plus. The issue does not arise with the single transferable vote system, in which there is only one vote and only one kind of member, and people vote in a positive way. If people want to vote against particular candidates, they must ensure that they put all the other candidates in front of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ken Ritchie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 478393,
      "EditedText": "On the grounds of proportionality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Facey: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 478395,
      "EditedText": "Australia has used that system for about 60 years and, in terms of proportionality, it probably does worse than the United Kingdom in some elections. When Lord Jenkins looked at different electoral systems, he said that AV on its own has the effect of quickening the waters of political change. It tends to speed things up, so that there can be larger swings against parties. It has the advantage of giving a majority in a constituency, but it can produce larger swings in favour of and against parties, and can have a more exaggerated impact than even the first-past-the-post system can have.In terms of the overall result, AV tends not to reflect how the nation, or the council area in this case, voted as a whole. It is a more accurate reflection of individuals' votes, but it does not represent the community as a whole. Then again, it is not supposed to: it is a majoritarian system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 478400,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Electoral Reform Society",
      "HeadingID": 12928,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12928,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 478401,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 478404,
      "EditedText": "I would need to fight for that. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 478405,
      "EditedText": "Not all parties will be represented on some groups—that lack of representation will be a stretch for the one Tory on the committee—but no Labour members are going to Aberdeen and two Labour members and one SNP member are going to East Lothian. How was the balance of the groups constructed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 478412,
      "EditedText": "I see that I am not part of any visit groups to city/large town councils. I would be quite interested in going to Aberdeen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 478413,
      "EditedText": "Where are you going, Sylvia?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12929,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 478416,
      "EditedText": "You do not mind going to Aberdeen, then, Sylvia?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 478417,
      "EditedText": "That will allow me to compare different types of council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Visits",
      "HeadingID": 12929,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 478418,
      "EditedText": "Okay.Are members happy with the briefing paper on the programme of visits, which sets out issues such as our choice of councils, methodology for visits, resources and time scales?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Council Tax",
      "HeadingID": 12930,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ID": 12930,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 478425,
      "EditedText": "If we do get to the stage where we suggest changes to legislation, presumably we would want to check whether other anomalies are thrown up by the system, which we might address at the same time. If there are related issues, it would make sense to take them forward as a package."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 478428,
      "EditedText": "That is an excellent idea, convener. I have just been sent a document called \"Islands on the edge: the case for an interim SINA payment for Argyll and Bute council\". It has the support of all the elected members of that council, representing all four political parties and the independents. You may want to send it on to Jack and circulate it to the committee. Unfortunately, it arrived only this afternoon. Councillors in Argyll and Bute have approached me and asked if they can make their case directly to the committee. Might you consider that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 478431,
      "EditedText": "When Jack came to the committee I remember him saying that he was interested in our becoming involved in the distribution side of things, so we can certainly pick this up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12931,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 478435,
      "EditedText": "In a country that is as diverse as Scotland, people should not be made to feel left out. I have island relatives—not in Argyll, but in the Western Isles—who often feel that they are being treated as peripheral while most attention and money is paid to the central belt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 478436,
      "EditedText": "Would members be happy for me to write a comprehensive letter to Jack McConnell and pick the matter up again once we have received his reply?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12931,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 478438,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have now covered all the matters that were before us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 478442,
      "EditedText": "I hope that we can finish that off. I know that Eugene has other ideas that he wants to incorporate. Could that be sent out before the next meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12931,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 478443,
      "EditedText": "With the agreement of the convener, we can circulate it as an information item once we have all the factual details straightened out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 478447,
      "EditedText": "I do not think so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 478456,
      "EditedText": "The witnesses put forward the STV system. I appreciate what you said about the researchers being overloaded, but it would be worthwhile knowing how the system operates in the countries that use it, and whether there are any disadvantages."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 478458,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether, in putting together a system that squares the circle of the different problems of four main cities, a large conurbation in the middle and remoteness elsewhere, we could examine countries that are similar to Scotland—maybe Norway or Sweden, or even Greece, although in Greece wards are tiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 478459,
      "EditedText": "We are all pushing to do a European trip."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 478460,
      "EditedText": "Not really."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 478461,
      "EditedText": "I think that the Australian system is particularly worthy of study.We have to be careful that we do not end up simply duplicating the work that Kerley is doing—we can examine his work when he comes to the committee.It seems to me that if you have one particular set of criteria for choosing a new voting system, the single transferable vote system comes out as the answer. If the issue of independents was not among the criteria that McIntosh identified, would STV still come out as the answer? I am not sure it would. We can explore those kinds of questions with Kerley and, perhaps, with someone such as John Curtice. To what extent does setting the criteria beg the question? Have other criteria been identified in places where changes to the electoral system have been considered? Why did New Zealand end up with the system that they have now? Were they looking for different things from their system when they were considering changes?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 478462,
      "EditedText": "McIntosh went to Europe, to north America and to other countries to look at various systems, but still came back with those three recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 2699
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Special Islands Needs Allowance",
      "HeadingID": 12931,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ID": 12931,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 478463,
      "EditedText": "That is something that we could explore with him, if he is coming back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 190829,
      "EditedText": "So the reporters raise the matter with the staff at the visitors centre?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 190831,
      "EditedText": "I just needed to have that clarified because I was not aware that there was an established procedure. That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 190865,
      "EditedText": "The report should specify race equality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 190875,
      "EditedText": "On page 4 of the document, under the heading \"Victims and Witnesses\", we read:\"The committee welcomes the role of Victim Support Scotland in addressing support needs of ethnic minorities.\"One of the concerns that was highlighted at last week's meeting with the minister was that additional resources were provided by the Home Office in England and Wales, whereas there appeared to be none in Scotland. If anything, Victim Support Scotland's resources are being squeezed, particularly in the west of the country. The primary reason for that is the complications that arise from the Data Protection Act 1998. Could that section of the document be tightened up to reflect that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4572,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4572,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 190783,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:05"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angela O'Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 190789,
      "EditedText": "As a project applicant, I endorse your point on matched funding; I have first-hand experience of the difficulty of raising matched funding. However, on shared priorities, the plan's intention—indeed the intention of European policy—is to make funding agencies regard equal opportunities as a priority and to allocate resources accordingly. The measures within priority 5 include employers undertaking workplace audits and developing practice. Companies may have considered those initiatives anyway, but the funding could act as a spur to take action. The plan has been developed in partnership with agencies such as Scottish Enterprise, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, national training organisations and representatives from further and higher education. The strong message from all the plan teams is that, once the plan becomes operational, equal opportunities have to be at the heart of individuals' actions. On a targeted approach, certain issues remain to be resolved. In particular, under the social inclusion measure of priority within the programme, women are not mentioned as a target group, but specific groups of women and other excluded groups are mentioned. When guidance is circulated to applicant organisations, those organisations will be given a very clear steer to ensure effective targeting of excluded groups, such as women and black and ethnic minority people in the community. That will be a key task.I take Malcolm Chisholm's point about the user-friendliness—or lack of it—of the draft plan, which appears to be a response to directorate-general V of the European Commission's guidelines rather than the plan team's intention. There is a big job to be done in articulating what is possible for projects under this plan. We should work collectively with groups with which we are all in contact to publicise funding for equal opportunities projects at a level of resourcing that has not been available in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 190800,
      "EditedText": "No, there will not be time to report back to a formal meeting of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 190802,
      "EditedText": "What about posting it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 190805,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Angela may be happy to help with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Police Complaints Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 4574,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ID": 4574,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 190808,
      "EditedText": "The next item on our agenda is the police complaints procedure, which was raised at our previous meeting. Everyone has been sent a copy of the press release, which some people had at that meeting. The item relates to our response to the action plan on the Macpherson report, but we can deal with it separately now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 190815,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 190818,
      "EditedText": "Okay. Those are the groups so far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 190820,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 190822,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it is. Martin has the list. Members should speak to him so that it can be finalised. Everyone should know which groups they are on. As I said, I will put the item on the agenda for every meeting, but I do not expect a report every time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 190824,
      "EditedText": "That would be a good idea, but the problem is that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee has filled up the vacant Tuesday and some members may have to attend that committee in the morning. Generally, Malcolm's suggestion is a good one, but it is up to the groups to decide. It would be better if members had their first meetings and decided what to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 190825,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it was envisaged that we had to meet every week: that depends on which issues we are discussing. Malcolm is right that we said that Tuesdays would be an appropriate time for the groups to meet. Even though we are on other committees, we do not have to meet all the time and we do not have to use up all three hours of an allotted time. If there is a clash, we can move forward or back an hour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 190851,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure what has happened. I am puzzled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 190845,
      "EditedText": "We followed the structure of the action plan, looking at the general issues before the specific issues. As the introduction to the paper indicates, we felt that, although the plan makes a lot of welcome points, some areas could be strengthened and that there were omissions. We wanted to be constructive rather than critical and to fill the gaps where appropriate. Most of the issues raised in the section entitled\"Openness, Accountability and the Restoration of Confidence\"were fairly straightforward, but we had some concerns about the delivery of what is proposed. The action plan will not be sufficient if people are not confident that it will achieve its aims. Our point is that it is not enough to say that things should be done; there must be ways of proving that they are done. Confidence will be restored only when it can be shown that things are being done, which will provide openness and accountability. In England, it has been proposed that Her Majesty's inspectors of constabulary should look at police authorities. We felt that it was a glaring omission that the action plan said that that would not be the case in Scotland. We could see no reason for that. HMIC should look at all aspects of the police service. We asked for clarification of what was intended in other areas. We felt that COSLA was being asked to look at certain issues but not to deliver on them. If COSLA cannot deliver an ethnic balance in police authorities, that balance should be delivered through co-option. We have looked at the possibility of co-option to this committee and there is no reason why local government should not co-opt members of ethnic minorities to ensure a proper balance when race issues are being discussed. Under the heading\"Police Practice and Investigation of Racist Crime\"we expressed our concern that the police are being asked to police themselves. There should be more scope for scrutiny of police procedures and of investigations of racist crimes. To have the police as the investigators of the police is far too narrow. There should be wider consultation with other organisations on how the police are performing. The action plan does not allow for that.We are concerned that, although family liaison was identified as important, the resources and the professionalism of those involved are unlikely to be sufficient. There must be greater professionalism and high standards so that the arrangement is not makeshift but a proper means of delivery. Similarly, the proposed consultation on victims seems very restricted. We would like to see it widened to ensure that those who are directly affected as victims are given the means to make their position clear. Victim Support Scotland was identified as the means of doing that, but the action plan contains no clear commitment to support VCS if it finds that its resources are restricted. Jim Wallace has said that VCS would be supported, but the committee needs to insist that that is stated in the action plan. The issue of disclosure gave the group the greatest difficulty because we felt that we did not have the professional background to comment definitively on the legal implications. However, we believed that, where it would benefit the victims and their families, there should be room for manoeuvre on disclosure. There have been cases where disclosure would have had no effect—that is always true when the case is completed. It can be very important for families to know what has taken place and what information was available during the trial. We could not be specific about when we felt disclosure was appropriate, but we wanted the issue to be looked at more closely than was suggested in the action plan.We felt that the action plan was vague on recruitment and retention. We wanted a more studied approach to police training and to ensuring broader ethnic minority representation in the police. We felt that the action plan was remiss not to give a clearer commitment on that. We suggest that a report is commissioned to ensure a police policy on recruitment and retention that is deliverable and being delivered. A glaring omission from the action plan is any comment on how education should deal with racism. Malcolm was keen to ensure that the education bill was highlighted. The action plan considers only the police—we commented on that omission under the heading \"Miscellaneous\". The broader services that impact on all areas of racism in Scotland should be looked at, especially social work, the probation services and children's panels. Without looking at those areas, the action plan will not have the impact that it could."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 190847,
      "EditedText": "I am puzzled myself. I have noticed a couple of omissions—I do not know what has happened to a couple of the sentences that I saw my assistant type. Page 5 says that the committee urges the Scottish Executive\"to review issues concerning civilians and special constables\".I asked my assistant to use the words \"civilians employed within the police service\"—I even saw him type them in—yet they are not there now. I do not know what has happened. I have a draft that mentions the feasibility study, but it has now disappeared. I will try to clear that up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 190849,
      "EditedText": "Because the matter has been raised here, I will speak to Martin and ensure that it is reinserted. We have agreed it twice and it was in a draft that everyone has seen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 190854,
      "EditedText": "It is at the bottom of page 4. The last sentence states:\"The committee is concerned that a lowering of standards does not result from a necessity to meet targets through the introduction of quotas.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 190855,
      "EditedText": "That should be omitted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 190856,
      "EditedText": "It was inserted because it was one of the specific points made by the representatives of the Commission for Racial Equality, which did not want tokenism or for the police to deliver purely because of quotas. The commission wanted it specified that the ethnic minority community should be represented in the same way as other communities and that standards should be maintained. It did not want token gestures that meant that a certain number were recruited but not to the benefit of the ethnic minorities. I do not want the sentence to be omitted, because I know what the CRE was saying. I agree with Johann that the wording is not as tight as it should be, but the CRE asked us to state—and the reporter group agreed—that we did not want tokenism in the police. That sentence is aimed at ensuring that the police cannot simply deliver x amount of people into the police service. Those people must properly represent the ethnic minority community and the way in which they are trained and supported must ensure quality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 190857,
      "EditedText": "That is not what the sentence says. Its implication is that the service would bear a cost because it would have to be more flexible in the way in which it recruited people—the implication was that some people would not be up to the current rigorous standards. I understand that we want to underpin positive action initiatives with support for people coming in. We must ensure that this does not become a numbers game and genuinely move the police forward. The sentence is worded in such a way as almost to give succour to those who argue against quotas on the presumption that the police will have to lower their standards. Although that is not intended, it could give out the wrong message, so the sentence should be rewritten."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 190859,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 190861,
      "EditedText": "When Jim Wallace announced the review last week, we agreed—I have checked what was said—not to discuss it in the report until we had examined the statement. It would have been wrong to comment on it before the committee had met today to discuss the matter. We could add a comment now, if the committee takes a clear view about what Jim Wallace is proposing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 190862,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. I hope that the committee will now agree to include a stronger comment on the need for an independent police complaints authority, as we have an important role in promoting that as an objective. We should not call for one without having examined a feasibility study, but we should state that we recognise the strong case for it.What I will say on the education aspects may involve other legislative considerations, in particular section 28. As the Equal Opportunities Committee, should we not argue for the specific inclusion across the school curriculum of an equal opportunities package? We should call for each school to have a promotion of awareness package that includes race. We would expect each school to have a race awareness workshop, or a tolerance workshop, as part and parcel of school life. Why should we not also have a sexual orientation and gender package? The former could come into conflict with section 28, so we may not be allowed that, but we should certainly push for a racial awareness workshop."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 190871,
      "EditedText": "If the committee has no objections, I have no problems with making the suggested amendment. All the way through, we have had consensus about we are trying to do. I have no problem with tightening up the wording or with adding comments to clarify the report and make it more effective. If the committee agrees with members' points, there will not be a problem in amending the report accordingly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 190872,
      "EditedText": "I have a problem with Tommy Sheridan's suggestion about strengthening the paragraph about co-option at the top of page 3, which states that the Scottish Executive has rejected the need for a statutory duty on police authorities to reflect any local ethnic or cultural mix. If we think about it, there is no statutory duty on any public body. Every police board is made up of councillors, but there is no duty on councils to reflect the ethnic mix of the community and no statutory requirement for co-options. We want co-options on this committee. Possibly, they should be extended to councils and every service area that they deal with. I do not think that the requirement for co-option is a matter for the police authorities in isolation. It would have to be part of a review to ensure equal representation on all public and elected bodies. That would give this Parliament problems. The wording of the report could be changed, but it should reflect that the issue has to be considered in the wider context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 190886,
      "EditedText": "Could the sub-group consider in more detail whether the Equal Opportunities Committee could propose legislation on section 28?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 190888,
      "EditedText": "That is what I meant. Some committees have already suggested subjects on which they might introduce legislation. I would have thought that there might a specific remit for the Equal Opportunities Committee on that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 190890,
      "EditedText": "How do we do that? Will someone come to speak to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 190893,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer that but I will find out and let members know as soon as possible, before the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 190900,
      "EditedText": "As far as I know, we are not doing that. I suppose that we ought to, but it is proving quite difficult to get even organisations to offer their points of view. However, I suspect that, as the Parliament's work continues, people will get more used to making representations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 190903,
      "EditedText": "We will not get feedback overnight, but we should try to start the ball rolling. We need to get people more involved, so that the man and woman in the street think that they have direct access to the committee and that what they have to say will be taken into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 190913,
      "EditedText": "It is a pity that no one discussed that before. The meeting will be held in private because that was what was discussed with representatives of the Equality Network. I do not know whether they would have any objection to allowing members of the public to remain. I do not have any objection to it, but it would seem a bit unfair suddenly to change in an ad hoc way what had been agreed. I do not think that that would be fair to whoever is giving the presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 190914,
      "EditedText": "Could we ask them, Kate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 190915,
      "EditedText": "We would have to ask their permission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 190916,
      "EditedText": "They were invited to an informal meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 190917,
      "EditedText": "I think that Malcolm is right. There are only a few people in the gallery, and we would have to tell them that they had to leave. I think that you would be against that, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 190919,
      "EditedText": "It should not. Informal means not having to wear a tie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 190920,
      "EditedText": "I close the formal part of this meeting. We now move on to the informal, public part of the meeting."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C190921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 190921,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:31."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
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      "ID": 123
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 190869,
      "EditedText": "The sub-group discussed the issue of head teachers' discretion—I apologise for not faxing that information to Michael last week. It would be useful to state that we did not want the decision on whether anything happened to be left to the discretion of head teachers. That is why the reference to head teachers is relevant. If we replace \"Head Teachers\" with \"schools\", as Johann suggested, perhaps we should add another sentence, stating that we do not believe that addressing racism within schools should be left to the discretion of head teachers. The discussion that we had at the sub-group was about what happened if a head teacher perceived that there was not a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190786",
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    },
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      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angela O'Hagan (Equal Opportunities Commission): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 190786,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Kate. It is good to have another opportunity to meet the committee. I intend to outline the content and intent of the equal opportunities provisions in the objective 3 draft operational plan, but I do not intend to offer comments on the full European policy. Equal opportunities have been given greater priority in the new structural fund arrangements than was the case in the past. The operational draft plan for objective 3 states:\"The incorporation of equality between men and women has become an obligation upon all spheres of EU policy and policy-making, following the Treaty of Amsterdam. With regard to the Structural Funds, programmes are expected to be able to demonstrate improved equality between men and women in terms of employment; education and training; enterprise and the reconciliation of professional and family life.\"At the moment, the requirement for gender equality is a priority. In Scotland, however, a broader definition of equality than gender equality is being promoted in the programme management executives and in the Scottish Executive, particularly in terms of the indicators that are being considered. As members will appreciate, that is in line with the broader approach to equalities across public policy in Scotland. To some extent, it also anticipates a widening of the scope for equalities issues in the European policy framework. I would like to outline the approach taken by the European social fund objective 3 plan team in addressing equal opportunities issues and the role that the Equal Opportunities Commission Scotland has played in that process. In February 1999, when the programme management executive embarked on its work, it was concerned to ensure that there was an adequate equalities profile in the operational plan. The EOC Scotland agreed to be part of that process and was grateful for the opportunity to be closely involved in supporting mainstreaming equality in the new structural funds. The EOC's view was that the greater priority being given to equalities issues in the new structural funds was a major development in equal opportunities and economic development policy. It was also a key area for developing a mainstreaming approach to equal opportunities in programme delivery in Scotland. We commend the Scottish objective 3 partnership for its commitment to equal opportunities and for taking the initiative to involve the EOC at the earliest possible stage. As I said when I last met members of this committee, the EOC's resources are severely limited, so our involvement proceeded on the basis that we would, where possible, advise the plan team but that we could not comment on every aspect of the plan. To maximise the input from EOC Scotland, we requested that we become part of the Scottish co-ordination team—a group, chaired by the Scottish Executive, that brings together all the programme managers and programme management executives. In that way, we could ensure that the advice given to the objective 3 plan team would be further disseminated across all the other plans and programmes. We are grateful to the Scottish Executive for supporting our partnership initiative to produce guidance on mainstreaming in the structural funds. I understand that the toolkit that has now been produced has been circulated to members of this and other relevant committees. The toolkit for mainstreaming equal opportunities in the structural funds has been prepared in partnership with the EOC programme representatives in the Scottish Executive. It has been circulated to all the programme directors and plan teams to assist them in the first stages of preparation of the draft operational plans. With the endorsement of the Scottish co-ordination team, the toolkit has also been circulated to the Scottish social inclusion network, because a great deal in it can be transferred to support mainstreaming equality in social inclusion programmes.Both the structural funds review and the development of the social inclusion strategy will involve the development of indicators and evaluation mechanisms. It was the EOC's view that that gave us another opportunity to reinforce the cross-cutting nature of equalities issues and to harmonise the way in which outputs are measured in terms of equalities issues. As members will be aware, improved data disaggregation is at the heart of both those areas of policy development and evaluation.The aim of the toolkit is twofold. The first phase deals with the context of mainstreaming equality in the new programmes and provides practical guidance on gender impact assessments—looking at policies in draft form to consider the impact that they may have, adversely or positively, on women and men. That will ensure that the gender dynamic of the labour and training markets, as addressed by the programme plan and the subsequent projects that stem from it, will be given due consideration in terms of the promotion of equalities issues within the programme. The second phase of the toolkit, which will be produced later this month, will give practical guidance on the application and selection procedures for projects.I come now to the way in which equal opportunities will be addressed in the objective 3 plan. As members will know, there are two approaches to equal opportunities. There is the vertical priority—to use more Eurospeak—which allows for a specific budget head for specific projects on gender equality. There is also the horizontal priority, which underpins the other four priorities in the plan and which aims to integrate equalities issues across all the programme measures. That approach contains two of the essential components for mainstreaming equality: specific actions to address inequality and gender imbalance; and the recognition that gender issues are integral to other programme priorities, such as raising employability, social inclusion, promoting a competitive work force, and lifelong learning. Specific actions for addressing equality issues as special measures, and integrating equalities across the policy spectrum, constitute the process of mainstreaming equality.The specific measures under priority 5 in the objective 3 plan allow for positive action initiatives. It is interesting that, for the first time, that includes initiatives by employers to improve workplace practices and policy frameworks to address gender segregation and the inequalities that that perpetuates in employment and training. We regard the measures as a very positive step, as they allow equalities issues to be promoted and addressed across the board, rather than remaining the preserve of individual projects, mainly in the voluntary sector and in local government.The financial allocations of all the priority measures have still to be finalised. Although it is likely that priority 5 will be one of the smallest allocations, it will nevertheless be a significant source of funds for equalities projects and will provide a real boost to equalities initiatives and practice development. Although it will be one of the smallest budget heads, it will be supported by the fact that equalities have to be integrated across all the other programme measures, and resources will therefore have to be allocated to developing equalities practice. The mainstreaming approach under the horizontal priority will ensure that project sponsors and project applicants demonstrate how their project will address equalities within the main priority. Another practical way in which we are aiming to underpin the horizontal priority is by expanding the references to equal opportunities that project applicants have to make and the evidence that they have to produce in the monitoring processes. Our intention is to go beyond the current practice of asking whether project applicants have an equal opportunities policy and leaving the matter at that, which is more superficial. We want a longer-term approach with evidence of practice and of developing practice over time. We hope that applicants, as part of the selection process, will be asked to complete an audit of their organisational practice and to commit themselves to executing action points that may arise from the audit. By increasing the profile of equal opportunities issues, we hope that they will become part of that monitoring process. In a sense, it will be more difficult for projects not to continue with their good intentions; more effective scrutiny of equalities issues will not only ensure greater visibility but reinforce practice. The Equal Opportunities Commission Scotland, in partnership with Fair Play Scotland, has two European social fund projects that are intended to underpin the developments in policy with examples of good practice. They are very much pilot projects and we hope that the practice approaches will become part of mainstream business and economic development provision. That is the principle intention of our project Developing Equalities in SMEs, which is funded under objective 4 and which works with owner-managers of small businesses and a range of partner organisations from across the economic development spectrum. Our other project, Equality in Training, is funded under the current objective 3 programme and works directly with European social fund trainers. It gives trainers training in equal opportunities, but its underlying aim is to improve awareness and understanding of equal opportunities issues and to see that reflected in future European social fund projects. In that way, we are trying to build the capacity of organisations to respond to the operational plan's new equalities framework. I hope that this presentation has given members a flavour of the approach at both policy and practice levels."
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  {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 190787,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Angela. Do members have any questions?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190788",
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      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 190788,
      "EditedText": "People with whom I have spoken are generally very impressed by the outline. However, I have three points. First, rather than making a comment myself, I want to pass on what a project co-ordinator said to me. She thought that the draft plan was admirable but that, from the point of view of management committees, it would be better if it was a bit more user-friendly. Secondly, we all know that European funding requires matched funding. While the draft plan is good in principle, we are interested in finding out how it will work in practice. There are concerns that the matched funders do not have the same priorities. In terms of positive action, which Angela said was such an important part of the vertical approach, women-only projects have been under pressure from council budgets in past years; the perception is that women-only projects are no longer regarded as a priority for council funding. How does that fit in with the objective 3 strategy? Scottish Enterprise has stopped funding Training 2000, an organisation that Angela will know. This issue involves the big public funders—not just councils—and all of them must have the same approach as the plan. Thirdly, the plan says:\"The final appraisal concluded that a focus on gender alone in terms of equal opportunities was misplaced and that a more targeted approach upon specific groups of women experiencing difficulty, such as lone parents, would be more effective\".To what extent has that recommendation been fully embodied in the report?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C190791",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angela O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
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      "EditedText": "Your question on resource implications is one for the programme management executive. A substantial percentage of projects already have to be monitored; equal opportunities monitoring will simply become part of the procedure. The extra effort and resources in terms of time and expertise will fall on the project applicants, but they will just have to think that bit harder about equalities issues when they are putting together a project application. We hope that that will be a way of improving the consistency of data collection. If projects are required to have the same starting point—they must think about equal opportunities from the beginning—they will have to put the systems in place in their organisations. We hope that that push across the sectors—the various delivery organisations—will result in a more effective use of resources. Data collection, which is not used consistently in project design and implementation, will be improved. In the longer term, there will be an improvement in organisational effectiveness when projects improve equal opportunities practice, monitoring and data collection."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C190792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 190792,
      "EditedText": "In my previous life, I worked in further and higher education and delivered some training—mainly objective 2. Projects have simply had to have an equal opportunities policy, but do you think that the new guidelines and the push to monitor could start to break down the sexual stereotyping that we have seen on many projects? I felt that, no matter how hard we tried, engineering courses were filled with men and the service industry courses were filled with girls. Is there anything within the plan that will strengthen the commitment to shift the balances?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C190795",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angela O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
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      "EditedText": "My understanding of the operational aspects of the programme is a bit shaky. However, there are rules about supporting beneficiaries and supporting child care costs within projects—those rules have always been a feature of the European social fund. As I said, the current plan seeks to build on the positive experiences of previous programmes. As to issues that we have raised and on which we were, perhaps, unsuccessful, on the whole there has been a positive attitude towards incorporating equalities issues to the fullest extent within the plan. A number of pressures have arisen as priorities across the different sectors have had to be reconciled. However, under the social inclusion priority, for example, women are not designated as a target group, although specific groups of women are so designated. The way in which the measures have been scoped allow for capacity building projects and projects that address long-term unemployment or rural or urban exclusion. Those measures, along with the horizontal priority of equal opportunities, mean that there is scope for sex equality, women-only or gender projects within the social inclusion priority. By and large, there are mechanisms for that within the plan, even though that is not explicitly stated. That relates to my point about ensuring that project applicants are aware of the kind of projects that they can pull together when the plan becomes operational."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190799",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 190799,
      "EditedText": "If there are no other questions, we will move on. Thank you very much for coming along, Angela. Members of this committee may report to, or speak at, a meeting of the European Committee, so we may be in touch with you again.The European Committee will consider objective 3 funding on 19 October. Given what we have heard from Angela, we should make a representation to that committee. Tomorrow morning, the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee is also hearing evidence on the subject; whoever goes to the European Committee meeting may also wish to go that meeting. As gender issues will be the main subject, it would be appropriate for the reporter on gender issues to go along, if everyone is happy with that arrangement. If Johann deals with that, will she have time to report to this committee before she goes to the European Committee meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 190801,
      "EditedText": "It might be necessary to call an informal meeting or perhaps Johann could circulate her report through e-mail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 190807,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, I hope that Johann does not do have to do this on her own. Other people have indicated an interest in gender issues, so I hope that two or three members will assist her."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Police Complaints Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 4574,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ID": 4574,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 190809,
      "EditedText": "We may want to deal with the substance of what is in the press release later, but it seems unfortunate, to say the least—and I know that we have rehearsed some of this before—that the press release reported something that had yet to be announced at the Equal Opportunities Committee. At the very least, it would have been helpful for that press release to have been available to us before we went into the meeting, or for the press release not to have been issued until after the meeting, so that it did not predate the announcement.We can deal with the substance of the press release separately, but we need to clarify how ministers deal with committees. I can understand that they want publicity for their announcements, and perhaps it is legitimate to make announcements at committee meetings, but the timing must be right and the announcement must relate to something that the committee is engaged with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Police Complaints Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 4574,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ID": 4574,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 190811,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 190812,
      "EditedText": "Item three on the agenda is progress reports—if there are any. This item will probably be on the agenda at every meeting, although I do not expect reporters to report at every meeting—it will be on the agenda so that reporters have the opportunity to report. The first report is from Michael Matheson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 190814,
      "EditedText": "I thought that that information was already available. I have a list of who is on each group. Would it be useful if I read it out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 190816,
      "EditedText": "The disability group comprises Michael Matheson, Irene McGugan and Michael McMahon. The gender group comprises Johann Lamont, Malcolm Chisholm, Irene McGugan and Elaine Smith. The sexual orientation group has Nora Radcliffe, Marilyn Livingstone and Shona Robison on it. The race group consists of Michael McMahon, Shona Robison, Malcolm Chisholm and Michael Matheson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 190817,
      "EditedText": "I would be willing to work on the sexual orientation group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 190827,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid that the reporters will have to do the organising, but we can give as much help as we can in finding rooms. Obviously, there will be some difficulty in finding rooms on Tuesday afternoons, because some committees will be meeting then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 190830,
      "EditedText": "There is a number—I cannot remember what it is—for booking rooms. It is on the signs on the doors of the meeting rooms in PHQ. Some members use their researchers to organise rooms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 190836,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 190839,
      "EditedText": "The next group is the gender issues group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 190841,
      "EditedText": "Michael, do you have anything to report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 190843,
      "EditedText": "I am sure Jim Wallace will understand. We could not get our report done by 30 September because he could not see us until 28 September, whereas we had wanted him to come on 21 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 190844,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that there will not be a problem with its being a few days late. Are there any comments or questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 190850,
      "EditedText": "Could this be an earlier draft?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 190852,
      "EditedText": "In the section \"Recruitment and Retention\" on page 4, I am concerned about the way in which the sentence on quotas reads. I am anxious that we do seem to argue that positive action means giving up high standards. My party very courageously decided to use quotas to increase women's representation in Parliament and I would defy anyone to say that that resulted in a lowering of standards. I am not sure whether that is what the group meant, but the sentence implies that there is a cost to the use of quotas—when we are addressing issues as fundamental as lack of participation and exclusion, that matters. It would be helpful if you could clarify what the group intended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 190853,
      "EditedText": "Where is that reference?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190866",
    "Meeting": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 190866,
      "EditedText": "It covers the whole syllabus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190868",
    "Meeting": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 190868,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 190870,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to come back on any of those points Michael?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C190874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 190874,
      "EditedText": "What Tommy is saying reflects what we were talking about with the minister. We need to be clear about how much is discretionary and how much is mandatory. As we all know, when things are discretionary, some people tend not to adhere to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190876",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 190876,
      "EditedText": "Is it agreed that Michael McMahon will incorporate those comments in a final draft and that that should be sent to Jim Wallace?Members indicated agreement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190878",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 190878,
      "EditedText": "I think that that would validate it."
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "It would have to come from the committee."
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 190880,
      "EditedText": "If it comes in the name of the convener on behalf of the committee, the clerking team can help with the drafting."
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  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190881",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 190881,
      "EditedText": "Nora is reporting on the sexual orientation group."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190884",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 190884,
      "EditedText": "We hoped that that would throw up other topics that we could take on board."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 190887,
      "EditedText": "We will have to work through the committee anyway, Tommy."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190894",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 190894,
      "EditedText": "Given that we want to start our consideration, do members want me to invite the minister, or an official, along to our next meeting to answer questions?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 4575,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 190896,
      "EditedText": "That is not the only thing that we would want to ask about the education bill."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190897",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 190897,
      "EditedText": "I asked Jackie Baillie about section 28 last week, so we can look at the Official Report. Her response was certainly positive. A point that intrigued me—and which I should have pursued—was her reference to reserved aspects. I am not clear about that.Perhaps we should not be bound by the end of October on the education bill. We want to hear from other people before we hear from the minister. On race, we should hear from Rowena Arshad, who has put in a very good submission on the bill on behalf of her unit at Moray House Institute of Education. We should also hear from someone on section 28, gender and general inclusion issues, including disability. The question of people remaining in mainstream education is central to this. We want to hear from three or four people pretty soon after the recess."
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  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190901",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 190901,
      "EditedText": "Would it be worth sending out press releases to say which subjects the committee is considering and that if any member of the public wishes to make a representation they can send a letter to, or e-mail, such and such a person? I do not know whether we will get any response, but we should work harder to involve ordinary people."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 190908,
      "EditedText": "There is no reason for them to be held in private. However, we decided to have briefings during the recess on the four main areas that the committee deals with. The first three were in private, so it seemed appropriate that the last one should also be. Any future briefings can be held either in private or in public. This briefing will be in private purely for the sake of consistency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 190911,
      "EditedText": "May I be facetious? If, now that we have entered an area of controversy, we take up Nora's suggestion that we issue a press release inviting disabled people to send us their views, there is much more chance that the press will cover it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 190918,
      "EditedText": "Does informal mean private? I do not think that it does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 190813,
      "EditedText": "I welcome your comments, because I do not have anything to report.I e-mailed everyone at the end of last week, suggesting that we meet for an hour before this meeting. However, no one replied. I was not sure whether technology let me down or no one was talking to me. I am sure that it was the technology. As no one got back to me, the disability group has not met. Naturally, I was going to suggest at the meeting that we go through the information that was given to us during briefings in the recess, try to establish an agenda and priorities and feed the outcome back to this meeting.I should say that I am still in the dark somewhat as to which members of the committee are interested in being on the disability group. I would welcome clarification on that so that I know who I can target future e-mails to, rather than send them to everyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 190912,
      "EditedText": "I imagine that, as ever with press releases, the press will diffuse what it wants to anyway. We talked about the meeting being private, but is there any reason why it could not be an informal meeting at which members of the public could remain?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 190794,
      "EditedText": "The consultative draft plan says:\"The Plan highlights lessons from the previous programme, which indicate that there may still be barriers to women's participation in terms of lack of affordable childcare\".Has that been adequately addressed in the current plan? In terms of your input into the document, Angela, were you unsuccessful in any of your recommendations on action that should be taken on equal opportunities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 190846,
      "EditedText": "I am puzzled because the previous draft referred to a feasibility study. The group agreed that there was no reason for the Scottish study not to go ahead and that we should not have to wait until April 2000 for it. That has disappeared from this paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 5 October 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4572,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4572,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Kate MacLean): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 190784,
      "EditedText": "Good morning and welcome to this meeting of the Equal Opportunities Committee. I am sorry about the change of venue. This venue may not be ideal, but apparently something more important is happening in committee room 1. I do not know what could be more important than the European structural fund objective 3 draft operational plan, but the accommodation arrangements for the committee are unfortunately outwith our control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 190785,
      "EditedText": "This morning we welcome Angela O'Hagan from the Equal Opportunities Commission. Members already know her, because she gave us a briefing during the recess. Today, she will give evidence on the objective 3 draft, so that the committee can decide what representation we want to make to the European Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angela O'Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 190793,
      "EditedText": "I could not agree more with your point, which links into data collection. Not all project sponsors are as conscious as you were, Marilyn, of the training market's perpetuation of gender segregation and the consequent perpetuation of inequalities. As equal opportunities is a horizontal measure in the programme, all projects, such as those that fall within the competitive work force or raising employability programmes, have to consider gender issues. In theory, that should mean that segregation issues are addressed. However, for that to be effective, we need the sort of awareness raising that is being undertaken by projects, such as the ones I have described. The intensive and expanded consultation exercises that all the programme plans are undertaking are also necessary. Since February 1999, there have been a number of consultation exercises, seminars, awareness-raising sessions, topic-specific sessions—including equal opportunities focus groups—and so on. All have tried to build awareness. They have tried to deal with concerns on implementing equal opportunities effectively and to address the question of why equal opportunities is an issue—we are still at that level in some cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 190790,
      "EditedText": "Angela, you said that a priority would be to expand the reference to equal opportunities policies in applications for European structural funds. Monitoring is also going to be an important priority, as having a good equal opportunities policy and carrying it out are two different things. Who will be responsible for monitoring? Are there financial implications that will have a knock-on effect on the number of applications that can be made to the fund?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4573,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 190796,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 190797,
      "EditedText": "I need some clarification. Forgive me if you have made this clear, Angela, but you said that gender equality in Scotland now has a broader definition than it has elsewhere. What does that mean?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4573,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angela O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 190798,
      "EditedText": "I was referring to the fact that the definition of equal opportunities, or equalities issues, was broader than that of gender issues—the European Union policy drive in the structural fund guidelines is for gender equality, but the indicators and other mechanisms to support the implementation of the programme go beyond gender to include black and ethnic minority and disability issues. That is the broader definition of equalities, which fits in with the definition of equalities as addressed by this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 190803,
      "EditedText": "It could be posted. Is everyone happy with that? We will all be in touch about any representations that are to be made to the European Committee on 19 October. Obviously, the recess means that a formal meeting could be a problem, but members could get together informally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 190804,
      "EditedText": "Can I confirm that I have to go to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee meeting tomorrow, listen to the presentation and then draw together a report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 4573,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4573,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Angela O’Hagan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 190806,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to help. The programme director from the objective 3 partnership will speak to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee tomorrow, so the discussion will focus more on European policy—where all the measures have come from—than my presentation did. The meeting will also address the specific social inclusion measures within the programme and the importance of maintaining the dynamic of equalities within the social inclusion debate, so it may be helpful in informing this committee about the European context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Police Complaints Procedure",
      "HeadingID": 4574,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ID": 4574,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 190810,
      "EditedText": "I signed off a letter to Jim Wallace on the matters that were raised at our meeting—if he has not received it, it should be winging its way to him now. When I get a response, I will circulate it to members and I will be happy for the issue to be on a future agenda if members wish it. Is it agreed that we will deal with the substance of the press release in our discussions on the draft response to the action plan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 190819,
      "EditedText": "Can you add my name to the race group?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C190821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 190821,
      "EditedText": "I put my name down for the gender and disability groups, but I am not on either—as has been said, if you miss a committee meeting, that is what happens to you. I would be interested in being on those groups, if that is all right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 190823,
      "EditedText": "I am slightly worried that the reporters will spend half of their time trying to arrange meetings, because a problem arises with clashes with other committees. I thought that we agreed at our first meeting that alternate Tuesdays would be a vacant slot. That may cause problems if members are on two groups, but are we still working on the assumption that we will try to meet on the vacant Tuesday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 190828,
      "EditedText": "There are rooms in Parliament Headquarters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 190832,
      "EditedText": "If something arises from our discussions that we want done, do we feed that to Martin and his team?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 190833,
      "EditedText": "If the group produces a paper, we can put it on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 190834,
      "EditedText": "Is it the case that any action arising from that paper would need to taken at the request of the whole committee? Will the mechanism be that the clerks will pick up on any action once the papers are put to the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 190835,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We do not service the reporters groups. Obviously, we will give as much help as we can and we will put the output from the groups on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 190837,
      "EditedText": "It will often be a case of this committee agreeing to ask another committee to deal with an issue, or making a recommendation that the Executive deal with an issue, in which case the civil service, rather than us, will deal with the matter.The committee does not have the resources. That has been discussed at the conveners liaison group. With regard to reporters and smaller groups, members are having to provide resources themselves. There is an on-going discussion on that issue. If members have problems, they should report them to this committee, because there is a limit to how much members or their staff can do themselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 190838,
      "EditedText": "Basically, the reporters report to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 190840,
      "EditedText": "My position is the same as Michael Matheson's—I feel good that I was not the first to have to make his admission. The same points apply to the gender group as apply to the disability group: we want to pull the group together as quickly as possible, identify a straightforward or limited issue to address, target it and, if we have some success, move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 190842,
      "EditedText": "I want to say at the outset that the response to the action plan on the Macpherson report should not be seen as a model. The time scale was far too restrictive. If there are flaws, I hope that people will understand that we were not left with enough time to plan ahead; it was a case of meeting, drawing up a draft and asking people to comment on it. Letters and e-mails were flying backwards and forwards. That was not appropriate. I would like to thank everyone for their help and for their understanding of the problems that I have I faced. I am happy to accept comments or criticism of the report—on its style or on how things were conducted. We tried to work to the initial deadline of 30 September, but that was never going to be practical, as became clear when I spoke to Martin last week. I asked Kate to explain the situation to Jim Wallace. I hope that, as we are a committee of the Parliament, our views will not be ignored even though the report is late, although I do not know what Jim Wallace's position on that is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 190858,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we state that the committee believes that standards will be maintained through the introduction of quotas. That would be a more positive statement. Michael McMahon's concern is that the CRE has flagged up the issue, so it would be wrong to drop it. We should say that the committee is confident that standards will be maintained after the introduction of quotas, which would be more positive than saying that the committee was concerned about a lowering of standards.I take on board the point about members being on a learning curve. This is a good report, given the constraints and the fact that everybody writes in their own style. However, the second paragraph on page 2—on openness, accountability and restoration of confidence—is a wee bit clumsy. Michael has clarified that what he is saying is that this committee is opposed to the fact that HMIC is not to be allowed to inspect police authorities. However, the paragraph seems to say that the committee is concerned that the Executive accepts the recommendation of the report, but rejects moves for HMIC to inspect police authorities. Could we change it to say that the committee believes that HMIC should be able to inspect police authorities as well as all parts of the police service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 190860,
      "EditedText": "At the top of page 3, the draft response states:\"The committee also notes the Scottish Executive's rejection of statutory duty for Police Authorities to reflect any local ethnic or cultural mix, and suggests this may be a case for co-option\".As Michael said, we should be clear in what we are saying. We should be clearer here and say that the committee believes that this is a case for co-option. We should push that issue forward with a more positive statement.I have a similar point to make about the fourth paragraph on page 4, which states:\"The committee of the Parliament recognises the importance of racism awareness training and encourages the Executive to ensure that Police Authorities to allocate time for officers\".Could we replace \"encourages\" with \"insists\"? We should be in your face about those issues. The end of that paragraph states:\"The committee would also encourage the effective monitoring and evaluation of training.\"We should add that we want local communities to be involved in that training. In Scotland, there is often a centre where all police forces go for particular training. It is much more important that local communities in different parts of Scotland are involved, so the training should be done on a divisional basis rather than across Scotland. Michael spoke about the omission of a Scottish feasibility study, but did we not have a stronger commitment on the need for an independent police complaints authority? I hoped that, as a committee, we would be more up front in saying that we believed that there was a strong case for an independent police complaints authority. We should call for the feasibility study in Scotland to proceed immediately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 190863,
      "EditedText": "Tommy's final point leads on to what I said about the education bill. We should say something more than that we want to ensure that the syllabus is being effectively applied, because part of the problem is that the syllabus is not adequate in this regard. Tommy is right in saying that we should examine the whole area, not as part of this report but as part of our work on the education bill. I am aware that we are not allowed to add extra items to the agenda, so I had better comment on that now. We should decide how to deal with the education bill, because we will be up against the same time constraints if the consultation ends at the end of October. The bill will roll on from there and we should not do another quick report because we will not cover the issues properly. Tommy is right that we should examine race, gender and sexual orientation on the curriculum. We should change what this report says about monitoring so that it specifies that racist incidents must be effectively monitored. We should also state that the Scottish Executive should ensure that the syllabus is developed and effectively applied. We should put down a marker for what we will do in more detail in a few weeks' time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 190864,
      "EditedText": "Should we specify the equality syllabus, as the syllabus covers reading, writing and arithmetic?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 190867,
      "EditedText": "The report refers to the \"considerable volume of work undertaken by Head Teachers in ensuring the delivery of equal opportunities teaching\". Perhaps we should refer to the considerable volume of work undertaken by schools in ensuring the delivery of equal opportunities teaching, as head teachers do not necessarily do that on their own."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 190873,
      "EditedText": "I raised that point because there is growing concern about the operation of the police in relation to ethnic minorities. We have to reflect that concern, although you make a valuable point, in terms of the changed wording. As Malcolm said, more things could be said about education generally in relation to the bill. In relation to this report, we as the Equal Opportunities Committee should recommend that the police authorities should co-opt rather than simply encourage. I worry that reports are not taken on board unless they are quite up front in what they ask for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 190877,
      "EditedText": "Do committee members want the final report to come from the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 190882,
      "EditedText": "I took a leaf out of Michael's book and e-mailed the people who I knew were involved—Marilyn and Shona—and we arranged a brief meeting this morning. British Rail messed up Marilyn's schedule, but Shona and I met and agreed that the obvious target for the committee was section 28. The first task for us in that area is to determine whether the Executive wants to tackle the repeal of section 28. We knew that the Equality Network was making a presentation and we thought that we might pick up suggestions from that on what areas we might look at. Another issue that would fall under the sub-group's remit was whether same-sex couples should be able to have a civil marriage ceremony; we might consider that. That is as far as we got."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 190883,
      "EditedText": "The briefing that we get after the meeting will—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 190885,
      "EditedText": "Does that cover everything on the agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 190889,
      "EditedText": "There has been some discussion about whether the issue comes under the education bill or the local government bill. We could propose an amendment to the bill, but first we must find out the Executive's intentions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 190891,
      "EditedText": "We can ask a minister to brief the committee. Alternatively, the committee can write to the Executive, or individual members can lodge written questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 190895,
      "EditedText": "Would not it be simpler to write and ask the Executive whether it has any intention of dealing with the repeal of section 28?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 190898,
      "EditedText": "We are writing to various organisations with an interest in equality issues to ask them for their comments. We can then decide which organisations we want to brief us. That will have to be decided fairly soon. We will also want to invite someone from the Executive along to ask them about gender equality issues in the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 190899,
      "EditedText": "We have talked about this Parliament being open and accessible and consulting people, but have we taken any steps to invite members of the public—ordinary people, rather than representatives of organisations—to feed in their views? Is that something that we should be doing? If so, how should we set about it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 190902,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether the media would even cover such press releases. However, the Parliament has a media section that will issue a press release on behalf of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 190904,
      "EditedText": "Once I have received responses to the letters that have been sent out I will circulate them to the committee. Will the committee remit it to me to organise briefings by different equality organisations? If members want to hear from specific people, they should let me know, so that I can get things organised for immediately after the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 190906,
      "EditedText": "Yes.The Scottish Out of School Network has sent me invitations to a reception. I will get Martin to circulate those to everybody, with the details. The reception is at lunchtime on Thursday 7 October, which is quite soon. People may want to note that in their diaries.That is the end of the formal, open part of the meeting. The Equality Network will give us a briefing once the meeting has been closed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 190907,
      "EditedText": "Like other members, I have been wondering why briefings are held in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 190909,
      "EditedText": "We agreed to have informal briefings, for which there would not be an official report, so that people would feel free to hold a dialogue. The decision was made for a positive reason. I would not want a spin to be put on it, as though we had decided to meet in closed session.The distinction between formal and informal meetings may be less helpful than we thought, and I would be quite relaxed about having everything open to the public. It is highly dubious whether every word that we say in a debate is worth recording. However, we would all be comfortable with the public listening in on the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 190910,
      "EditedText": "Johann is right. All these informal briefings should have taken place during the recess, but the briefing by the Equality Network has been postponed for various reasons and has now run into the time when Parliament is meeting. The briefings were intended to inform the committee's work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5413148+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 190826,
      "EditedText": "On a point of clarification, convener. With regard to support for groups in organising meeting places and so on, should the reporter do that, or should we go to the clerks?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 190848,
      "EditedText": "Will you make sure that the feasibility study is reinserted before the response is submitted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 190892,
      "EditedText": "We may have a problem with the time scale. I had not appreciated that 31 October was the end of the consultation period for the education bill. Today is 5 October, so we need to find out the Executive's intentions. I assume, however, that the date by which an amendment to the bill would have to be produced would not be the end of October, so first we need to establish whether we should draft an amendment. We could use the consultation period to find that out.Drafting a major amendment to the education bill would involve a lot of work. I do not think that the process of committees drafting amendments has been tested yet and I am concerned about the lack of resources available to committees. We need clarification on who will assist us in drafting the amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 05 Oct 1999",
      "ID": 1033
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-10-05T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress Reports",
      "HeadingID": 4575,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ID": 4575,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 190905,
      "EditedText": "Will we be into the education bill by then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18723,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18723,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 623367,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the fifth meeting of the Standards Committee.Members received the agenda last week—I think on Friday—and I would like to take the items in the order that they appear on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 623371,
      "EditedText": "Can we go through this page by page, convener? I would like to make a number of specific comments, but before I do so I would like to congratulate the clerks on doing the difficult job of drawing together the strands of this particular paper very well.We have set up our cross-party groups very differently from those at Westminster. The committee's intentions for carrying this forward have been put into reasonable shape. Any points of detail that I want to raise or highlight are in the context of welcoming something that has been done thoroughly and effectively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 623372,
      "EditedText": "Des would like to take this page by page. If we consider the first page, members will see that there is a large amount of new material.Do you have any comments on that first page, Des?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 623373,
      "EditedText": "I am quite happy with it. It expresses what we wanted it to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 623381,
      "EditedText": "That seems reasonable to me. Are members happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 623388,
      "EditedText": "I would like to say more about item 12. I think that it is reasonable that cross-party groups be allowed to use the Scottish Parliament information centre, but they should not be allowed to use it in a way that will generate costs for SPICe. It is reasonable for people to go and examine material in the library but not necessarily to cause additional costs to the facilities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 623390,
      "EditedText": "I would like to comment on the bullet points in the section on registration of cross-party groups. I am not sure why \"certain\" is used in the penultimate point. I would miss that word out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 623391,
      "EditedText": "That would make the point more explicit.I have been advised that there is a threshold of £250."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 623393,
      "EditedText": "Would members like to make any other points relating to that page?"
    },
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    "ID": "C623396",
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      "ID": 3471
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623396,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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    "ID": "C623398",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 623407,
      "EditedText": "I confirm that first thing this morning I received from The Observer a transcript of the interview that it conducted, as did other members. Convener, when were you first aware that allegations about members of the Scottish Parliament were to be published in The Observer last Sunday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 623409,
      "EditedText": "Although we had an informal meeting yesterday, there are some aspects of the matter that it would be right and proper to discuss at today's meeting. I repeat the question: when were you first aware, convener, that details of the allegations made in The Observer would be published?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 623414,
      "EditedText": "I asked at the informal meeting yesterday whether we could delay the start of this meeting. The committee decided that it wanted to press ahead at 9.30. However, I will take advice from the clerks.I have been informed that a covering letter was received at 9.25, but I have not seen it and so I do not know what it says."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 623416,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to adjourn if members so wish. Perhaps members could indicate whether that is the case."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 623418,
      "EditedText": "From what you said, convener, I am not clear whether we have received a letter of complaint or not. Has a specific complaint been made, which the Standards Committee has been asked to consider?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623425",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 623425,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful to Lord James for drawing our attention to the First Minister's statement in the newspaper. The convener has also confirmed that we received a letter from one of the people who were named in The Observer. That person has written to request that the Standards Committee investigate the matter. It would be remiss of the committee not to accept his urgings that we investigate the allegations and the transcripts that we have before us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 623427,
      "EditedText": "Is it a matter of fact that a letter has been delivered this morning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 623428,
      "EditedText": "I am advised that the clerk received the transcripts and a covering letter."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 623429,
      "EditedText": "If that letter mentions a particular individual, or individuals, the case for moving into private session is advanced. I suggest that it would not be unreasonable for us to adjourn for a short time, to consider the contents of that letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623435",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 623435,
      "EditedText": "On the first page of the introduction, we can see the amendments that have been made. Are there any points that members want to raise? If not, let us move on to the second page. Is everybody happy with the introduction as amended?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623440",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 623440,
      "EditedText": "Your objections were noted, Adam and Tricia."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623447",
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 623447,
      "EditedText": "The next page includes the headings of selflessness, integrity, honesty, and accountability and openness."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623448",
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 623448,
      "EditedText": "We have always had the problem with overlap, but perhaps good things bear repetition."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623450",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 623450,
      "EditedText": "We should reorganise the accountability and openness section slightly. The opening sentence should be the one that states:\"Members are accountable for their decisions and actions to the Scottish people\".That should be sentence one. Sentence two should be:\"They have a duty to consider issues on their merits, taking account of the views of others.\"Sentence three should be that they also have a duty to be as open as possible about those decisions and actions.Those are the three elements and that would be consistent with the language that we are using."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 623452,
      "EditedText": "This is the second part of the second sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 623454,
      "EditedText": "I am suggesting that we start with accountability and go on to a duty to consider issues on their merits, taking account of the views of others. The third sentence should be that they also have a duty to be as open as possible about those decisions and actions. That would remove the part that states that members are responsible for the decisions that they take, which is superfluous as it is obvious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 623456,
      "EditedText": "The only point that I will make on leadership is that we have consistently changed everything else to say that members have a duty, so to be consistent we should say that members have a duty to promote and support."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 623368,
      "EditedText": "We will start with item one, which deals with the regulation of cross-party groups. At the previous meeting we discussed a draft scheme on the regulation of cross-party groups in the Scottish Parliament. The underlining on the briefing paper indicates new or amended text."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 623369,
      "EditedText": "Convener, were you not intending to make a statement at the opening of this meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 623374,
      "EditedText": "Do other members have any comments to make?If not we will move on to the second page, starting with item two."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 623375,
      "EditedText": "I would like to say something about item four on that page. For the sake of clarity, the third sentence should say \"elections for office bearers\" instead of \"the elections\".We should consider a period of 10 days' notification in advance of a meeting, as it is normal to give a lengthier period of notice before a meeting at which there will be an election of office bearers than for a normal meeting. Ten days would be fairer to everybody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 623377,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 623379,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 623380,
      "EditedText": "We should relax item 10 slightly and say that both MSP members of the group \"should be present\" rather than \"must be present\" at meetings of cross-party groups. I would not want meetings rendered invalid because MSPs intended to attend and then found that they were unable to. Intention is the important issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 623382,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 623383,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy with paragraph 11?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 623384,
      "EditedText": "I would like comment on item 12. It is reasonable for cross-party groups to use the e-mail facilities in the Parliament to notify people of their business. That is not being facilitated by item 12 and we should amend the item to allow that to happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 623386,
      "EditedText": "I have been advised that we can recommend that to the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 623392,
      "EditedText": "We could make that threshold explicit rather than using \"certain\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1821E295P538C623402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Mrs Margaret",
      "ID": 1821,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Moray"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 623402,
      "EditedText": "Thanks, Mike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18724,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 623405,
      "EditedText": "As long as we bear in mind that the committee remains the arbiter in this matter.I have been passed information that relates to Des's point about access to SPICe. Providing papers and so on may incur costs. We should monitor those costs to determine whether they are reasonable. We will recommend that to the corporate body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 623406,
      "EditedText": "We now come to item 2.Over recent days, there has been much speculation in the press about the activities of political lobbyists. In my capacity as convener of this committee, I have said that I would regard allegations of improper influence over the actions of any member as a very serious matter.However, I wish to make it clear that no formal complaint has been made to me or this committee about the involvement of any MSP in such activities.Transcripts from The Observer newspaper were delivered to the committee clerk at 9.25 this morning. I have been informed that they were also e-mailed to members. The transcripts will be viewed by members of the committee.I would like to point out, for the record, that this committee is concerned with the conduct of members in relation to their parliamentary duties. The rules governing members' conduct are set out in the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999 and will be amplified in the code of conduct that this committee is presently drafting.I would also like to make clear that if any relevant allegations are made, and if they are substantiated in any way, this committee will ensure that a thorough and prompt investigation is carried out. The committee has already agreed that a high priority for us will be to consider the issue of lobbying in the context of the Scottish Parliament. We will now start that process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 623412,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Tricia, for that comment. The transcripts have been handed to us. I do not think that it would serve any purpose to comment on them until all of us have had a chance to read through them together. You are on record at the past two Standards Committee meetings as having criticised my openness and accessibility. It is important now that we move on. No purpose is served by remaining on this point. I want to return to our agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 623413,
      "EditedText": "Has a letter of complaint been submitted to the committee with the transcript? If so, it would not be unreasonable to have an adjournment to consider it. If a formal complaint has been put before the committee, we should know that. I have received no copy of any formal letter of complaint from The Observer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 623415,
      "EditedText": "I have two points. First, it would not be unreasonable for us to adjourn briefly to consider a copy of the letter. Secondly, I am passing round copies of an article that appeared in The Express on Monday, as I do not want to quote it without giving members copies. In the third paragraph, the article quotes a statement that was put out on behalf of the First Minister, who said:\"The First Minister does not believe there has been any breach of the Ministerial Code. But he strongly supports the proposal that the standards committee should investigate any allegations made and should consider whether there is a need for further regulations in the light of such reports.\"In view of that call from the First Minister, it seems that we should have sight of a copy of the letter as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 623417,
      "EditedText": "I second that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 623420,
      "EditedText": "There are two important points to make. First, the procedures adopted by the newspaper in gathering its story—and all I have seen is the story that was written—seem to involve, in the paper's terms, subterfuge; in my terms, deception. The practices are not dissimilar from those of a thief—impersonating somebody to further an action. It is difficult to see how what The Observer did could comply with a standard code for journalism, if one existed that operated in the same way as the code in the United States.Even more serious is the fact that, as members of a fledgling Parliament, all of us are concerned that we should be trying to construct a Parliament that abides by appropriate standards of which people in Scotland can be proud. We are faced with an organisation—a newspaper—that has delivered to us, at 25 minutes past 9, information that it has apparently held for a period, and you cannot tell us whether there is a formal complaint attached to that. The procedures that we want to construct and have in operation are not being served by that kind of action by the newspaper. The way in which it seems to have operated in constructing this story—and, more important, the way we are being asked to respond to its actions—is inappropriate. If an official complaint that we should deal with is being made, it is incumbent on us to deal with it properly. Through the action of the newspaper, we are being placed in a position in which we cannot deal with this matter properly. I would be quite happy if committee members wanted to adjourn, to decide whether there is a complaint that we should deal with and to consider how we might deal with it. I would not be happy to consider a matter that I have had no opportunity to examine prior to its discussion.We are in a difficult position because a newspaper is trying to use the Parliament in an inappropriate way. I resent that strongly. The committee should indicate its resentment of the way in which that newspaper is behaving."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 623423,
      "EditedText": "I am not aware of any correspondence from the First Minister. Lord James has provided us with a newspaper article. By your account, convener, we have received a letter at 25 minutes past 9, together with some linked information. That is the position that we are in. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 623424,
      "EditedText": "That is correct. In the course of these activities, I have only ever received one letter from an MSP, to which the committee responded yesterday. That is all that I have received, apart from this package that the clerk received at 9.25 this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 623431,
      "EditedText": "Meeting adjourned at 09:54."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 623436,
      "EditedText": "We have accepted the introduction to the code of conduct.We now move on to the key principles of the code of conduct. The first page deals with public duty and duty as a representative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 623437,
      "EditedText": "Is it necessary to include the oath of allegiance in a code of conduct? We have already taken the oath, so why are we putting it in the code of conduct? What we are really talking about is the conduct and behaviour of MSPs; we are dealing with an on-going code of conduct, so I do not see why the oath should be included?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18726,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 623443,
      "EditedText": "Let me first read the paragraph on duty as a representative, as the wording has changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 623444,
      "EditedText": "Are we happy to proceed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 623451,
      "EditedText": "I believe that that third sentence was struck out, do you want it back in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623453",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 623453,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that we should reverse those two points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18723,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:32"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 623370,
      "EditedText": "We agreed yesterday that that would happen at the beginning of the next item on the agenda.I assume that everyone has had time to read the documentation on cross-party groups. I would like to address action points by the committee. First, the committee is invited to consider the attached drafts and to agree the texts. Let us turn to the text on cross-party groups in the Scottish Parliament. How would members like to play this?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623376",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 623376,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy with that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 623378,
      "EditedText": "In item seven—which refers to members being charged a subscription—we should include in brackets the words \"e.g. to cover administrative costs\". That would illustrate the purpose for which a subscription might normally be required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623385",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 623385,
      "EditedText": "I read that as well, Des. We discussed at the previous meeting that it would be unreasonable for MSPs to be unable to use e-mail and telephones in pursuit of good cross-party purposes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 623387,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should do that."
    },
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  {
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 623389,
      "EditedText": "They should have access but not incur costs. That is a good point.Are there any other comments on this page?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623394",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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      "ID": 1970,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 623394,
      "EditedText": "I have no more points to make in relation to the rest of the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 623395,
      "EditedText": "Is everybody happy with the next two pages?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623397",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
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    "Committee": {
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 623397,
      "EditedText": "We can agree on those.Is everybody happy with the registration form?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 623399,
      "EditedText": "That is approved.Is everybody happy with the \"Declaration on Establishment of a Cross Party Group in the Scottish Parliament\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1821E295P538C623400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Mrs Margaret",
      "ID": 1821,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Moray"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Margaret Ewing (Moray) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 623400,
      "EditedText": "Could I have a copy of the papers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623401",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Of course."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 623403,
      "EditedText": "Shall we approve the declaration?Members indicated agreement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623404",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18724,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 623404,
      "EditedText": "The committee might want to be more explicit about the criteria that it will use to evaluate the purpose of cross-party groups. The rules state that groups\"must be Parliamentary in character\"and that their\"purpose must be of genuine public interest\".Alternatively, we could take a case-law approach and wait and see. It might be a good idea to obtain a list of the cross-party groups that have already been proposed. More detail on the criteria would help people who are considering proposing the establishment of a group."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623408",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 623408,
      "EditedText": "I spoke to you specifically about that at our briefing yesterday. You should consult the clerk at the end of the meeting to refresh your memory."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623410",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 623410,
      "EditedText": "It should come as no surprise to you to hear—I told you this yesterday and said that you could confirm it—that I was informed of the matter on Thursday. I want now to move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 623411,
      "EditedText": "With respect, these issues are of relevance to the Standards Committee and to the people who believe that the Standards Committee has a responsibility to the Parliament. It is germane to establish who knew about the allegations and when, so that we can move on today to consider how the issues can best be dealt with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 623419,
      "EditedText": "As I said in my statement, the terms of which were agreed at yesterday's meeting, I have not to date received a complaint from anyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 623421,
      "EditedText": "I understand where Des is coming from on this issue. However, as James has pointed out, the First Minister has called for us to investigate this matter and I understand that we have received other letters from people who are involved. It would be remiss of us not to consider this matter today. We must do so, given the sensitivity of the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 623422,
      "EditedText": "I agree. According to the convention that we have adopted, we must move into private session if any named MSPs are to the fore. We do not know what is in here, and I suggest that—if the committee agrees—we move into private session for a few minutes, so that we can investigate this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 623426,
      "EditedText": "I want to make one thing absolutely clear: I feel that we are duty bound to look into, and get to the bottom of, any complaint that we receive. The question remains: have we received a complaint? That is why I am asking the committee whether we can move into private session. According to the convention that we have adopted, if anything in here names a particular MSP we must move into private session. I think that it is now appropriate to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 623430,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to do that. Question, That the meeting be now adjourned, put and agreed to.—Lord James Douglas-Hamilton."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 623432,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lobbying",
      "HeadingID": 18725,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 18725,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 623433,
      "EditedText": "Welcome back to the full open session of the meeting. I remind everybody of our reason for our going into private session. It is a convention of the Standards Committee that when any individual MSP is named in any information that comes before us, we discuss the matter in private.We are still discussing item 2. We have decided to meet on Tuesday in private for careful consideration of the matters that have been placed before us, with a view to deciding on the terms of an investigation.That concludes our discussion of item 2. We now move to item 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 623434,
      "EditedText": "Members of the committee will have received all the relevant papers. The committee is invited to consider the attached drafts of the introduction and key principles of the code of conduct for members and to agree texts.Remembering that we shall come back to this when the whole code of conduct is written, I want to go through the introduction and key principles. Do members want to do it page by page?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 623438,
      "EditedText": "There was genuine disagreement about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 623439,
      "EditedText": "We have had a long and full discussion on the wording of that point. It is there and it is a statement of fact. At the previous meeting, members agreed that it is appropriate for it to remain in the code of conduct. We reached agreement on that at our previous meeting, so I think that we should move on, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 623441,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 623442,
      "EditedText": "We move on to duty as a representative, and then to the headings of selflessness, integrity and—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 623445,
      "EditedText": "Karen, are you happy to proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 623446,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 623449,
      "EditedText": "I do not want us to strike out honesty, accountability or openness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18726,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18726,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 623455,
      "EditedText": "Okay, we will do that. We will now move on to leadership."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3471
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 623457,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. We will do that.Thank you very much. If members could remain behind for some housekeeping matters, we will close the meeting at this point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8440405+00:00"
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 10:57."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18279,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 18279,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 603531,
      "EditedText": "Can I make a suggestion? We had this seating arrangement today because the SCVO was coming to speak to us. Perhaps John could now move round, so that we can see him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 603550,
      "EditedText": "I want to address how we will go about our work. We have identified that we want to talk to drug users and their families. We are not the most user-friendly group to go around the country. We said that we wanted to go into communities, and I think that we should do so. We should go to Glasgow first. As I am a Lothian list MSP, I hope that you appreciate me saying that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
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      "ID": 1773,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 603582,
      "EditedText": "Once the committee has reached a decision on housing, we should move on from that rather than revisit the matter. John's recommendation to have the briefings on housing finance and Scottish Homes early on should be followed. We need to press on with examining urban and rural stock transfer issues. If we can tie our discussion in with rearranging when we intend to invite ministers to speak on drugs issues, we can move fairly quickly, at the beginning of November, to examine the urban issues. We could ask John to set up that meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 603589,
      "EditedText": "I wish to make a suggestion. Each area that we are considering is at a different stage. There is the preliminary stage, when we are getting up to speed, and there is the inquiry stage which is, perhaps, more public. From our discussions, I think that the initial stage on the drugs inquiry will involve seminars and briefing. John suggested that we could move quickly on to hearing housing evidence during our public sessions. We should consider using the week-about pattern, where one week we have more briefing sessions. We could use those for our drugs work and to bring ourselves up to speed on housing. We need to get a move on with the national anti-poverty strategy, which we have not started yet, but we could get updates on the preparation of the strategy from the sub-committee. That would give us a clear direction for the next three months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603618",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 603618,
      "EditedText": "We need to have the briefing on housing finance."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603631",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3351
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 603631,
      "EditedText": "What is considered reasonable notice?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 603645,
      "EditedText": "What about Monday 25 October?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
      "HeadingID": 18278,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 603510,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in what you said about the new opportunities fund. Perhaps the committee could raise the matter with the Executive, to find out what distinctive Scottish policy making there is for that fund.My question concerns the relationship between the voluntary sector and the Parliament, and the two sides that there are to that relationship. This morning, a different committee is addressing the issue of lobbying. Voluntary sector organisations are not backwards in coming forwards in contacting us directly, and many of them have parliamentary officers. I am interested to know your view on that. Do you recommend that those officers join the Association of Scottish Public Affairs?The second aspect of the relationship with the Parliament concerns the voluntary sector and the civic forum. I am sure that you were at last week's debate on that subject. I would like to hear your comments on the current position of the civic forum, how you think that should progress and the action that you think should be taken to get there."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18277,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 603484,
      "EditedText": "I welcome everyone to the very formal surroundings of the chamber. Most people here will know me, but I would like to begin by introducing myself to the members of the public in the gallery who are here to listen to our proceedings. My name is Margaret Curran and I am the convener of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime (Director, Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 603486,
      "EditedText": "We are very pleased to be able to participate in this meeting. I will introduce our team. I am Martin Sime, the director of the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations. On my right are Connie Smith, our policy and research officer, and Stephen Maxwell, our assistant director. We are pleased to have been invited here today—it is an honour to sit in this chamber. I hope that the meeting can be as interactive as possible in the circumstances.Our primary purpose in being here is to provide an orientation guide to the voluntary sector. Our experience is that most people recognise only the part of the voluntary sector with which they are familiar, but SCVO seeks to represent directly and indirectly the interests of voluntary organisations working in many different fields of activity.The debate in Parliament last week reflected the huge interest in and cross-party support for the voluntary sector in Scotland. It is SCVO's belief that we need to build on that good will and to develop the sector's contribution to Scottish public life.In our memorandum, we have offered the committee a rough guide. It contains evidence about the size and shape of the sector and about current issues and areas of interest. As the committee will see, the sector works in all areas of public policy. It would be invidious of us to highlight one area at the expense of others—diversity and pluralism are the sector's strengths, but they are also sometimes its weakness. There are many different voices and points of view on priorities and needs. It is in that context that we offer the following general themes for consideration, which might form the basis of our discussion.As a starting point, I should say that SCVO congratulates the Scottish Executive on its work in addressing some of the issues of structure and domestic matters relating to its relationship with the voluntary sector. We have been seeking progress on some of those issues for decades and they have at last been addressed—and addressed well.We now have the right structures for the establishment of a good relationship and good dialogue with the Government in Scotland. The next phase is to use those structures to make a difference on the ground—that is an objective that we all share.One of the committee's roles is to scrutinise the Executive's actions in the voluntary sector and to ensure that the practice matches the rhetoric. The Executive says that the sector is a good thing and should be encouraged—a continuing review is needed of whether the practice matches the good intentions.Joined-up thinking is another issue. We want to look at cross-cutting agendas and at what falls between the cracks of departmental interests. This committee has a wide range of responsibilities. Social inclusion and housing are huge agendas and the committee could spend all its time on those. Our being invited here is evidence that the committee will not forget the voluntary sector and its interests and that the committee is not focused only on social inclusion and housing, although those are important areas of activity.Another suggestion is for the committee to focus, in the longer term, on ways in which the third sector adds value—the reasons why it is different from the public and private sectors—including, for example, the role of donations or volunteer leadership. We want to ensure that as much as possible is being done to bolster and support ways in which the sector adds value to public services.As was said in the debate last week, there is a need to safeguard the independence of voluntary organisations—we must ensure that voluntary organisations have a reserved space in which to contribute to public policy debate. In many areas in which the sector is working, non-departmental public bodies and Government agencies seem to spend an enormous amount of time talking to each other. We must ensure that there is room for the voluntary sector, with its independent, outside perspective, to contribute to those debates.Beyond this general list, organisations will want to present the committee with competing priorities. One of your dilemmas is how to deal with that. As I said earlier, I have been struck—particularly in last week's debate—by the depth of positive feeling for the voluntary sector. We need an outline of the Executive's intentions to translate the support for the voluntary sector into a real strategy for helping the sector and for helping us to develop our work. How will we know whether such a strategy will work? Do we have any benchmarks? It may be decided to listen to what people feel should be the benchmarks against which the Executive's programme of action is to be measured. I now bring Stephen into the discussion. He has five specific areas that the committee might want to address."
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  },
  {
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Maxwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 603492,
      "EditedText": "I will comment on charity law and pass the question on European structural funds to Martin. For many years, the sector has pursued the case for reform of charity law and regulation in Scotland on two or three grounds, one of which is that the regulation in Scotland is looser in some important aspects than it is south of the border. That gives rise to the cases that are reported in the media every so often of rogue charities from south of the border coming to the wild lands of Scotland to pursue activities that they cannot get away with in England. It is in the interests of the credibility of the sector in Scotland that the loopholes are closed. We are also interested in reform in order to ensure that the charities in Scotland have the full range of professional and expert advice on how they should operate under the law, as we have not been confident that that has been available in Scotland in the past. There is a case for providing some methods of relatively cheap appeal against the award or withholding of tax privilege status—charitable status—to organisations, which, at the moment, can be pursued only through fairly expensive legal processes. We think that there is a case for exploring the possibility of introducing a cheap appeal against those decisions—a quick and easy appeal rather than the current complicated process. Behind that, there are wider issues about what sort of activities should merit tax privilege status. Those are just some of the issues that are in the minds of those in the voluntary sector. They are not so urgent that they should foreclose the option of a proper public debate and review, and we want a debate on some of the issues before the Executive comes to a conclusion about what form the review should take. However, those issues are certainly at the top of the voluntary sector's agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
      "HeadingID": 18278,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 603493,
      "EditedText": "Alex Neil is right in saying that there are real difficulties with the European structural funds. Assisting local groups to gain access to those funds can be a very bureaucratic process. Each time the funds are reformed—and they are being reformed at the moment—we are promised simpler processes, but in practice an extra layer is added and the system becomes more complicated. The transition from the old funds to the new always creates difficulties, particularly for voluntary sector recipients, who often do not have the resources and reserves to manage their way through the transition. There is always a delay in starting the new programme and we are now optimistically looking at June next year as a starting point. Some steps have been taken to minimise the impact for all current participating agencies and we do not think that the situation this year will be as difficult as it was last time the priorities were changed. This year, however, there is a considerable reduction in the overall funds that are coming to Scotland, and I have no doubt that some voluntary organisations will find it difficult to sustain their operations.The European Commission has been active in exploring the issue of getting funds to local community groups, and is launching a series of social capital pilots, with the objective of giving small grants to local groups. SCVO will be running one of the three UK social capital pilot grant schemes to test the methods for making small sums of structural fund money more easily available without groups having to become the principal applicants. We hope that we can encourage the Commission to continue that strand of work.The real dilemma for the voluntary sector lies in the big debate on how far the structural funds should target existing businesses as opposed to targeting unemployed people and communities facing exclusion. I do not need to tell members on which side of that debate the voluntary sector stands. There is debate in Scotland about the different priorities to be accorded to proportions of the elements of the funds. Those are the micro-economic issues that are currently under consideration by the Scottish Executive, and I think that this committee should have a legitimate interest in them."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603500",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 603500,
      "EditedText": "I refer to a table—I presume that it comes from you—that shows the sources of your funding in 1997-98. As I work it out, about 40 per cent of the funding comes from Government-type sources—grants from non-departmental public bodies, the national lottery, local authorities, central Government and Europe. The problem with that funding—you can probably tell us more about it—is that it is usually time-limited for about two or three years; at the end of the period voluntary organisations have to put together a jigsaw of different sources of funding to survive. You said that the Scottish Parliament should consider the operation of the new opportunities fund and the national lottery; could it not be argued that voluntary organisations should be offered the stability of three-year funding, which could be renewed at the end of the period if they are doing a good job in their area of expertise?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603502",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 603502,
      "EditedText": "I have a direct interest, as politicians always do in raising questions. In Mid Craigie and Linlathen, a deprived area of my constituency in Dundee, an under-12s project is coming to the end of its urban programme funding and is now faced with the dilemma of how to put together a package to keep going. When it turns to the new opportunities fund—the project provides homework classes—it is told that that fund is only for the generation of new places. Trying to access Government money is a nightmare for voluntary organisations. In poor areas of Dundee, such organisations do not have the option of getting big handouts from private sector organisations, so they need Government support. The Government must recognise that in some types of voluntary sector projects, particularly in poor areas, there has to be steady support from Government."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 603503,
      "EditedText": "We could not agree more—that is one of the key issues. It is hugely inappropriate that new opportunities funding for out-of-school activities is for one year. Everybody, including Government and Government agencies, wants to fund the front end and not the continuation of work. That is the principal problem with statutory funding."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603504",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 603504,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that those issues will be on our agenda."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603505",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3351
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 603505,
      "EditedText": "I want to come back on two points. First, I confess that I am unenthusiastic about the charities law review. Is there clear evidence that the relatively unregulated system in Scotland causes problems other than those that exist in England, with its panoply of charity commissioners and so forth?I am conscious that charities range from a whip-round in the pub upwards. Many come and go. There are also the long-standing institutional ones. Was there any evidence of the existing, wider laws on fraud not dealing with the problem?My second point follows that of John McAllion on long-term funding. I am interested in the bridge-to-work angle, and in the number of people on placement. From my own, little, experience in citizens advice bureaux, I can say that a number of people were placed from time to time: it was often a halfway house to longer-term employment. It worked well. Are there bureaucratic difficulties in the way of charities of whatever sort accessing such placements, with welfare-to-work arrangements for example? Are there things that we can do in that regard which will make life easier and make the take-up more effective?My final point—I am sorry to go on a wee bit—also relates to funding. Would the models that you would recommend, in terms of local devolution, local voluntary organisations and umbrella organisations, assist with expertise, professionalism and access to funding, which is a key element?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 603506,
      "EditedText": "As the time goes on, I will ask that we speed up, but we still have a wee bit of time."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Maxwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 603507,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps Connie can say something on the first question: on research evidence."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603512",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 603512,
      "EditedText": "On the civic forum, I was sitting in the gallery and I think that George Reid got it absolutely right. I recognise the different ways in which responsibility for that ball has been passed around. However, the minister's response was right: this is not just a voluntary sector agenda. In fact, it cannot be viewed as just a voluntary sector agenda. Voluntary organisations are hugely enthusiastic about the civic forum, and the sector has much to gain from participating in dialogue with other social partners and with the Government and Parliament on ways in which the civic forum will work.Unfortunately, we have locked ourselves into a set of issues about resourcing the activities of the civic forum without having the open debate that there should have been about the ways in which a structure such as the one that is proposed could add value to participation in the work of the Parliament. That is the debate that we ought to have, but we are discussing with officials how or whether and at what level the civic forum should be funded. That is unfortunate. We would have preferred all those resourcing issues to have been resolved, so that when the Parliament assumed its powers and responsibilities, the civic forum was there and able to undertake its many functions. There is great enthusiasm for it. I cannot give you a special insight because I have none, but there is still a hope that the funding issues can be resolved so that we can create a more participative culture and include voices in the debate that currently are not heard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Connie Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 603517,
      "EditedText": "The advice that organisations receive on establishing themselves as charities is the core business of the infrastructure organisations—such as the SCVO's information office and a number of the councils for voluntary service throughout Scotland—which spend a lot of time providing that support. I understand that the appropriate part of the Inland Revenue can also give some assistance and is preparing a booklet about how to become a charity. However, there is a weakness in the support that volunteers receive so that they can fully realise some of their legal obligations, and more could be done to help them.In addition, if the provision of such support is the core business of infrastructure organisations, that work will come under threat if the organisations' core funding is threatened. I hope that a review of charity law would consider appropriate support and advice for voluntary organisations and charities.There is no incentive for charities to de-register, although charities sometimes inform the Inland Revenue as a matter of good will. Our research suggests that there is at least 11 per cent dormancy—charities that are not active but whose names have not been removed from the Inland Revenue's charity index."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603520",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 603520,
      "EditedText": "It was clear that many organisations were taken by surprise when they received substantial water bills for the first time this year. Without any consultation, the water authorities decided to change their approach to relief for charities. They did so with a scheme that involved some difficult delineation between different types of charity—they seemed to be proposing a scheme whereby youth clubs and church halls were offered continued exemption while other charities were not. That did not seem to be viable.The Minister for Transport and the Environment agreed that the water authorities had not consulted the sector as they were required to do by the compact. She said that organisations had not been given sufficient time to consider how they might raise the additional resources that would be needed to pay the new bills. The scheme has been cancelled for the current year and we are pleased that the Executive has taken that action. The SCVO will now enter discussions with the water authorities, to examine how charities are affected by water rates. The bottom line is that the water boards have a legal requirement to treat all their customers equally, and we need to explore what that means in terms of charity relief. If there are to be charges, they will have to be introduced with sufficient notice over a period of time and with a coherent scheme to back them up."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Maxwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 603521,
      "EditedText": "The sector's relationship with local government is crucial. It covers much more than funding, but funding is the most important part. Local authorities provide about £110 million or £120 million a year to voluntary organisations and they also provide support in kind.A stream of work with local authorities predates the compact and has resulted in policy guidance from COSLA on the funding of voluntary organisations. That policy guidance states the commitment of councils to extending three-year funding to voluntary organisations.The funding relationship has been influenced by the financial problems that local authorities have faced. The evidence that we have—and it is not precise evidence—suggests that there has been a fall in the support that the voluntary sector has received from councils during the past two to four years. That is a matter of great concern and lies behind some of the difficulties that are faced by organisations that are, for example, coming out of seven-year urban programme funding.We are greatly concerned that COSLA, on behalf of the councils, should take a supportive attitude to the funding issues faced by voluntary organisations. We are keen to develop further our relationship with COSLA and the councils."
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  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603522",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
      "HeadingID": 18278,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18278,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 603522,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask two very different questions. The first concerns the operation of the SCVO and follows on from Fiona Hyslop's point about how important it is for the Parliament to engage with the voluntary sector. If the SCVO sees itself as one of the key players in interfacing with the Parliament, how will the organisation ensure that it liaises regularly with all voluntary and community organisations?My second question touches on the point that was raised about the issues that the committee can examine, in particular Scottish Criminal Record Office checks. As someone who has been a volunteer in the voluntary sector—I was involved with the Girls Brigade—I appreciate what that will cost the brigade, never mind the entire voluntary sector. However, I also appreciate the importance of properly vetting all volunteers. The Girls Brigade is a unique organisation, in that its volunteers tend to come up through the ranks, which is not the case for most voluntary organisations. I would not want that to be the case, because it would exclude many people from taking part in the voluntary sector. Are there other ways of vetting people properly without the heavy cost implications of SCRO checks? Furthermore, are such checks effective in telling us whether people are suitable to be volunteers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
      "HeadingID": 18278,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18278,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 603523,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to give a short answer to both questions. Part of the answer to the first question is that voluntary organisations will always find a way to the table to get their individual voices heard. The SCVO spends a lot of its time encouraging that process and enabling organisations to articulate their priorities instead of streamlining them into one organisation. The sector is too diverse and pluralistic to allow such streamlining. The SCVO tends to focus on generic issues. Seventy per cent of the sector by turnover has direct or indirect membership of the organisation. Although there are 44,000 organisations in the field, only 1,100 are direct members of the SCVO, so it is important that those in the sector keep speaking to one another and that the networks and infrastructure, which are critical to the sector's health and success, function effectively. In Scotland, we have a much more coherent infrastructure than elsewhere in the UK, which means that, in practice, programmes such as the new deal are more effective.Communications are never perfect. More always needs to be done to make sure that grass-roots organisations, in particular, can contribute their unique perspective to public policy. We welcome the commitment to a guaranteed place for a voluntary sector representative on bodies such as social inclusion partnerships. However, that puts added weight on those representatives, to make sure that they hear the many groups that want to speak in that debate. Although there are no simple answers, the sector appreciates the need to preserve diversity and pluralism and to allow organisations to express themselves directly to Parliament.In answer to the second question, the sector by and large accepts that SCRO checks will happen. However, such checks will tell us only whether someone has a criminal record, not whether he or she is a suitable volunteer or whether something will go wrong in future. Now that criminal record checks have been accepted as inevitable, the debate has centred on how that process should be resourced.In commercial terms, it makes no sense to issue an invoice for £10, because it probably costs more than that to process the payment. From our perspective, it is not sensible to have 60 to 100 cheques with a £10 bill attached to them. We do not want volunteers, who are a critical element of the voluntary sector, and organisations that work largely with volunteers to be hampered in their work by having to meet those costs. Nor do we think that the costs should be borne by individual volunteers, because that might deter them. The sums of money are relatively modest, but individual organisations such as the Girls Brigade and the Guide Association, to which I spoke recently, are hugely concerned about how those costs will affect them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
      "HeadingID": 18278,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18278,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 603524,
      "EditedText": "If there is to be relief on the cost of cheques, that has to be implemented UK-wide. If not, organisations might simply move up north, as has already happened in the charity sector. Ministers have told me that if relief were given solely in Scotland, that could become a major problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18279,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 18279,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 603535,
      "EditedText": "We were told in the e-mail that accompanied the objective 3 document that that issue will be on the agenda for 6 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 603544,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Keith that Alex's definition is a bit narrow. I know what Alex means, but the committee should investigate other aspects of social inclusion, such as the effects on families and people's ability to work. If someone is incapable of holding down a job, they are socially excluded. A lot of people who are in work suffer according to various indices of poverty. The addition of \"the links between\" would be helpful. Apart from adding those words, we should leave it at drugs and social exclusion. That would include what Alex is trying to do, but allow the scope to be a little wider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 603545,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Alex."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 603546,
      "EditedText": "Hang on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 603547,
      "EditedText": "We stressed that we are not examining drugs as a problem—that is not in our remit. It will be for the Health and Community Care Committee, or another committee, to examine how drugs interact across the whole of society. We must examine the impact of drugs on poor communities. It is important that we focus on that. Oil-rich Aberdeen has drug problems, but they are not the problems that concern this committee. If people from wealthy backgrounds are taking cocaine, that is not our concern. Our concern is the impact of drugs on people in poor, deprived areas"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 603549,
      "EditedText": "I am not disagreeing with Alex or John. What I am worried about is that when you say drugs and the impact on communities, it sounds like an academic thesis. This committee is not undertaking an academic thesis. We all know the devastating effect that drugs have had on communities. That will come out in the inquiry. We are considering what we can do to help those communities, the addicts in them and all those who are affected by addiction. We should be proactive in that sense. I think it is better to have a looser definition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 603559,
      "EditedText": "The point that Alex made is very important. Poverty is not unique to Glasgow and the big cities—there are deprived rural communities too. It is an issue in the cities, but it is also an issue in places such as Plains and Caldercruix in my constituency. I am sure that Alex could list similar rural communities where drugs are a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 603561,
      "EditedText": "I made this point in the chamber last week. I am concerned about inviting Angus. It is nothing personal, but we always get these blooming cross-department groups. Drugs misuse is always chaired by a home affairs or justice minister. Jackie is the member of the ministry that we shadow and scrutinise. I am not saying that we should not have Angus, but if we do, the emphasis will once again be on enforcement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 603564,
      "EditedText": "I know that this flies in the face of what we discussed earlier, in private, but is there not a case, in this instance, for inviting the two ministers together if we have enough time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 603566,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we should brief ourselves. During that briefing period, we could build up a reservoir of sources of public evidence and of groups that we would consult, and determine how we would organise that evidence. An official could perhaps brief us. We should get information, find out what the Executive is doing, then take public evidence and refocus it in the direction in which we want to go. Alternatively, we could get our information, listen to the ministers or whomever we invite to speak on Executive policy—undoubtedly, we will tighten the inquiry after that evidence—then take evidence, refocus the inquiry and come up with the short, sharp recommendations that we are hoping for. We do not need to decide that today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 603568,
      "EditedText": "We would need to give them warning. We want to ensure that what we want to ask them is clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 603570,
      "EditedText": "We could find out what research has been done on that. We need to ask people directly what evidence they have.Is it agreed that we could begin by asking Sue Morris to attend a meeting on 6 October? We could, from her lead, determine our seminar programme.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 603572,
      "EditedText": "John, do you want to say anything about housing before we tie ourselves down to some of this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 603573,
      "EditedText": "When we discussed the matter last week, we agreed that we should have the briefing on housing finance and the session with Scottish Homes early on, because of the uncertainty surrounding that issue. Those are the first two briefings that are scheduled. I am not sure about the third one. The Scottish Federation of Housing Associations is keen that, if we are to consider stock transfers, we should start quite soon. The time for making decisions is running out, and it will take time for the committee to reach a view on new housing partnerships and stock transfers. I would prefer to examine stock transfers in the session in the week beginning 3 November. We could invite Glasgow City Council, which is at the forefront, to come along at the same time as some of the organisations that are opposed to its proposals, so we can hear both sides of the argument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 603574,
      "EditedText": "We could invite the minister on 10 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 603576,
      "EditedText": "Nothing has been decided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 603578,
      "EditedText": "It will be this year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 603580,
      "EditedText": "That is a neutral response from the minister to a parliamentary question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 603584,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify that the italicised items on the committee timetable are provisional—there are a lot of provisional items. In particular, it was not possible to arrange for a session from John Breslin and Albert Tait at the committee's next meeting. They asked for more time—more notice—if members wanted written material in advance. It may be possible to schedule informal briefing sessions from them, if members would prefer, which could take place during the recess. However, Peter McKinlay and John Ward will attend the committee meeting on 27 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 603586,
      "EditedText": "We could spend the last meeting of the month out on visits."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 603588,
      "EditedText": "The hour that we had today with the witnesses from SCVO echoed our session with the minister: it was not quite long enough and a number of issues were not taken up. It might be useful to have some sort of debriefing. What are we going to do about the information that we received this morning? How are we going to draw it together? There may be issues, such as charity law, or whatever, that we want to consider further. We must be able to make rational use, in terms of making decisions and progressing work, of the information that comes in and of the time that people give us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 603591,
      "EditedText": "I think that our modus operandi remains the basic issue. My inclination is to suggest that we pick only one issue—particularly when we are dealing with big issues such as housing and the anti-poverty strategy—if we have only two hours at a time, rather than trying to deal with two in one day, as that would be impossible. I want to suggest a way forward, Margaret. We have already agreed that, initially, we will deal with our drugs work in the meetings that fall in the last week of the month, as that is when we will be going out and about. It would be logical for us to focus on that work in the last week of October and November, assuming that we will not be out on visits between Christmas and new year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 603592,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to recommend the model that Fiona was suggesting for dealing with housing at formal committee meetings. We could use Mondays and Fridays to discuss drugs, even if we continue to meet on Wednesdays. People may find that a bit much, but perhaps we should keep either one of those days free to conduct our seminars so that, by the beginning of November, the briefing stage will be over and we can move to the public inquiry stage by the middle of the month. We will lose our focus on housing if we are conducting a public inquiry on drugs at the same time. We should use the formal meetings to discuss housing and try to reorganise the inquiry and briefing sessions on drugs outwith that cycle, although we may have to encroach on it a bit. I know that that programme places great demands on people's time, but the arrangements for 27 October have already been made and we must deal with housing finance before we can go on to consider housing stock transfer in November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 603593,
      "EditedText": "It is important to focus on the work that we are doing. Once we have heard evidence and discussed it, we must come up with a list of key action points. Otherwise, our work will be diffuse and we will come to no conclusions. Ten minutes at the end of each meeting summarising what we have learned and where we are going would be time well spent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 603594,
      "EditedText": "That is an excellent suggestion. At the end of every meeting we should draw up a list of points on which we need to take action. We should probably take 15 minutes at the end of next week's meeting to reflect on the SCVO presentation that we have just heard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 603596,
      "EditedText": "That is the worst word to use; it will get into the Daily Record tomorrow morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 603599,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to make a similar point. We agreed at one of our early meetings to set up a group to draw up a remit for the committee to work to. We must formalise that today and agree a date at which the members who are to form that group will have their initial meeting. Alex is right in saying that, at the moment, we have no direction. That must be sorted out, otherwise we risk losing an important area of work such as the anti-poverty strategy. We must get that on to our agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 603600,
      "EditedText": "I think that Martin Verity would agree that our social inclusion remit includes anti-poverty issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 603607,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that any of us expects to solve all the problems of social inclusion in the next few weeks. I am concerned that we need a firmer timetable. We need issues to be put on our agenda—we are all looking to make the work programme firm."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 603612,
      "EditedText": "Like Karen, I am concerned that the anti-poverty strategy will slip off the agenda or will slip back well into next year. Given what Fiona has said, I suggest that the sub-committee that has been delegated to consider the work programme for the anti-poverty strategy should present an outline work programme at the meeting after next. That can then be built into the longer-term work programme of the committee.Secondly—this suggestion will not make me popular—given our work load and the need to get through a lot of it quickly, I suggest that we meet in at least one of the weeks of the October recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 603613,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem with that—there is certainly material for a meeting. The problem will be which week, as I have a commitment in the first week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 603616,
      "EditedText": "Volunteer Development Scotland has agreed to come next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 603617,
      "EditedText": "We are moving away from Alex's suggestion, which we agreed to, that we do only one thing each week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18281,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 603620,
      "EditedText": "The other point is that, if we are to discuss objective 3 in time to pass our views on to the European Committee, we must do it next week or during the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 603623,
      "EditedText": "Volunteer Development Scotland might be willing to come at another time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 603627,
      "EditedText": "We usually say about an hour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 603632,
      "EditedText": "We could say three weeks, but it can be quicker if you do not want a paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 603641,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with it too, but finding a suitable date might be difficult because of the different holidays in different parts of the country. However, given that we are talking about a briefing session, and not a formal meeting with formal decisions, the paperwork should not be a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.469486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 603644,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should try to arrange a briefing session during the recess, even if one or two members cannot make it, because no formal decisions would be taken. Alternatively, we could try to meet on a Friday or a Monday, but we would need to know who would be available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.469486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 603655,
      "EditedText": "I am wondering about travel arrangements: would it be possible to have the private meeting at 9.30 am and the public meeting from 10 am till 12.30 pm?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 603656,
      "EditedText": "That would make my life difficult—I have to get children out to school. It is an awkward time. I am sure that in six month's time we will have a plan to solve all these problems; unfortunately we are not too good at it just now. We are making progress and getting down to work, however, so let us not be too hard on ourselves.I thank everybody for attending, and I thank members of the public for their forbearance and interest. See you next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.485116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 603552,
      "EditedText": "I have concerns about how we can speak to individuals without putting them into an awkward situation. We must make people feel comfortable. We should consider breaking into smaller groups when we are talking to individuals and ensure that we are approachable. If this is meant to be the open, accessible, approachable Parliament, we should consider carefully how we go about this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 603608,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we stress the work of the action teams on social inclusion, as that could tie in well with how we examine the national anti-poverty strategy. We do not necessarily need live reports to the committee from all the action teams. We should expect written reports, some of which will be of particular interest, such as the evaluation framework for the national anti-poverty strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 603635,
      "EditedText": "As the Executive has already been notified that we want a briefing from civil servants—it was given three weeks' notice, of which one week has already passed—it is not unreasonable to suggest that we could have a briefing session on housing finance during the recess."
    },
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  {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the public meeting at 10:34"
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603485",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3351
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 603485,
      "EditedText": "We are very pleased this morning to welcome representatives of the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations. We will hear a short presentation and then move on to a discussion—I hope that the meeting will be as interactive as possible. The Parliament had a full debate on the voluntary sector last week and SCVO will have no complaints about the support that it received and the positive statements that were made. We are thankful for the material that SCVO has sent to us—the information is full and impressive, but I am sure that members will pick up on some of the points in it. I now hand over to SCVO."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603487",
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      "ID": 3351
    },
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Maxwell (Assistant Director, Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 603487,
      "EditedText": "We were asked whether, in today's meeting, we could suggest some areas of interest in the voluntary sector that the committee might want to consider in the medium term rather than the long term. We would like to suggest five areas in which the voluntary sector would appreciate the committee's interest.The first is charity law review and reform. In the elections, the majority party in the Scottish Parliament made a commitment to review and reform charity law. Anything that this committee could do to keep the Executive's attention firmly focused on that commitment, and the urgency with which it must be delivered, would be much appreciated by the voluntary sector. We are obviously interested in the timing and process of that review, and we are keen that it should be opened out for as much participation as possible by the wider voluntary sector and the public.The second area is the implementation and monitoring of the Scottish compact—the agreement between the voluntary sector and the Scottish Office that has been carried forward by the Scottish Executive. From next April, the Scottish Executive departments, the non-departmental public bodies and Government agencies in Scotland will pursue implementation plans for the compact, which has a wide-ranging remit. The voluntary sector would appreciate anything that the committee can do to ensure that the broad principles of the compact are applied in practice, particularly in relation to the non-departmental public bodies and agencies. A practical concern that will arise in the shorter term is the financial impact on the voluntary sector of police checks that have been imposed following the events in Dunblane. If the full weight of police checks is imposed on the voluntary organisations involved with the relevant vulnerable groups, there will be an estimated £3 million cost to the voluntary sector, which is very sensitive to cost. Under the current proposals, the cost would fall heavily on a number of voluntary organisations that have wide-ranging activities with vulnerable groups.The fourth area to which the committee might want to turn its attention is the Scottish Parliament's relationship with the lottery and, in particular, with the new opportunities fund, which disposes of considerable sums of money in Scotland. The First Minister made a commitment to issue an order under the Scotland Act 1998 to give the Scottish Parliament powers of policy direction for distribution bodies in Scotland. The committee might wish to pursue the question of that order and take a close interest in how it is used when implemented. Finally, I would like to suggest an initiative for this committee: an inquiry, perhaps jointly with the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and the Rural Affairs Committee, into how the economic role of the voluntary sector can be promoted. The briefing paper gives some figures about the scale of the voluntary sector's activity, from a base of 40,000 organisations that employ 100,000 people and that are active in many areas. The sector is now one of the fastest growing, in terms of job creation, in Europe's post-industrial economy. It is a matter of great interest and concern to the voluntary sector that its potential to contribute to economic development should be fully realised. There may be scope for an imaginative piece of joined-up inquiry and policy making by those three committees."
    },
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  },
  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Connie Smith (Senior Policy and Research Officer, Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations): ",
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      "EditedText": "Not at this point."
    },
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  {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 603491,
      "EditedText": "I have general questions, but one arises from your comments, Stephen. On the proposed reforms to charity law, where do you think that the priorities will lie? How urgent is the reform? Are some points of a higher priority than others? You did not mention European structural funds, which are undergoing fairly radical change, but many voluntary organisations depend on them. The emphasis is now on capacity building in local communities and it is difficult for voluntary organisations and community-based organisations to access those funds unless they have the proactive support of local authorities and, indeed, matched funding from local authorities or similar organisations. Would you like to comment on the way forward, as you see it, for structural funds—how their limitations could be relaxed and how they could be used more effectively at community level?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603496",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Connie Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 603496,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add a couple of points that touch on what Stephen said about charity law. Without a statutory register in Scotland, it can be difficult to find out what charities exist. The Inland Revenue does not have the resources to provide information that might help a new organisation to avoid duplicating the work of another organisation. As Martin said, we know about all the new charities, but there is no incentive for anyone to deregister and say that their charity has closed down. We have no picture of the dynamics, so it is difficult to get an honest and holistic view."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603509",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 603509,
      "EditedText": "On your second question, Robert, about the bridge to work, the voluntary sector has a long, honourable history of trying to work with disadvantaged people to reconnect them to the labour market. I worked in a community programme in the 1980s—many people remember those experiences. The current raft of initiatives includes the new deal, which is a much better funded programme than its predecessors. The voluntary sector is significantly involved in delivering one of the options of the new deal—the voluntary sector option—which has turned out to be a reasonable success in Scotland, compared with elsewhere in the UK, partly because the sector has produced a more coherent infrastructure to support that. At any time, around 1,000 young people are on placement with voluntary organisations, getting work experience and training. That is but one of a confusing number of initiatives. Structural funds have already been mentioned. There is also training for work, the enterprise network programme and skillseekers. Overall, the whole thing lacks coherence. There is a need for investigation into that lack of coherence and for an overview to see whether there is synergy between the different programmes. As we indicated in our evidence, there are some difficulties with the new deal because the policy is not tailored to Scotland. It is difficult to influence the policy direction that the new deal is taking. That is a big fault line; some of the experience of groups is not reflected in the design of the network programme. Overall however, the new deal has been a success for the voluntary sector in Scotland.The answer to Robert's last question is to examine the voluntary sector infrastructure at local level. A review of the role of councils in voluntary service has been commissioned. We welcome that very much, because we think that councils have a critical role in supporting local organisations that are seeking resources. That is the core service which councils need to provide to the many groups that need such support."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603511",
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      "ID": 3351
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Maxwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
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      "EditedText": "I will respond to the first question. During the preparations for the Parliament, there were moves to set up an association of public affairs consultants in Scotland. The voluntary sector—the SCVO and a number of other organisations—was involved in discussions with the proposers of that initiative about whether it would be appropriate for voluntary organisations to join. The SCVO felt that there was a distinction between lobbying for profit and not for profit. Of course, by definition, voluntary organisations are not-for-profit lobbyists and campaigners.The SCVO took the view that it would not join the association of public affairs consultants, and the great majority of voluntary organisations came to the same conclusion. One or two organisations might have joined, but generally, the voluntary sector was keen to distinguish its relationship with the Parliament from the commercial lobbyists' relationship. Events have probably proved that principle to be correct. The voluntary sector is keen to develop its role as a partner in policy making through the committee system of the Scottish Parliament and through direct contacts with individual MSPs, but our hope is that MSPs will recognise the difference between commercial lobbyists and voluntary organisation campaigners."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 603514,
      "EditedText": "No, it is four every day."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 603515,
      "EditedText": "In that case, how many close down every day? Does the SCVO monitor that figure and does it, or any other body, give advice to new charities or voluntary organisations to try to ensure that they have a longer shelf-life than the figures would suggest?"
    },
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  },
  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 603518,
      "EditedText": "The situation in England is that the Charity Commission publishes a wide range of booklets that provide quasi-judicial advice to organisations, and if organisations follow that advice, they are indemnified. Such advice is not available in Scotland. We can give out advice about best practice, but if a group of charity managers wanted to establish whether an action was charitable, they would have to go to the Court of Session. Many groups do not want to do that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18279,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 603529,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry that I was so draconian about bringing that discussion to a conclusion, but it was necessary to ensure that we get through the rest of our agenda.We now move to item 3. Paper HS/99/4/2 sets out the action points that were agreed at our previous meeting. I will work through it. Members should indicate whether they wish to raise other issues. The drugs paper is on today's agenda, so I will come back to that later.I understand that the committee of conveners met yesterday to discuss public meetings outside Edinburgh. Perhaps John could tell us about that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603539",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18279,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 18279,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 603539,
      "EditedText": "We can return to that specific point when we come to discuss the draft timetable. There will be a number of points to raise on the programme that the clerk has suggested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18279,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 18279,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 603532,
      "EditedText": "I feel nervous about having John behind me anyway, given all his political experience.As I understand it, we need to start planning the meetings that we intend to hold outside Edinburgh. That means that we must push on with finalising the details of our work programme. We will return to that at item 5 on the agenda, but I wanted to let the committee know that the matter is being pursued.At some point today, we need to talk also about how to pursue the housing issues. I will let John McAllion get his breath and then ask for a short update. I know that many meetings on housing are planned, but it is a key priority and we want to keep moving on. I want to make one final point on this agenda item. We can pick up on all the issues about our draft programme of work and how to manage our work load under the final agenda item. Two points arose from our last meeting, attended by the Minister for Communities. First, I want to inform the committee that I have written to the minister—although I have not yet received a reply—to ask her to ensure that committee members are informed of any public announcements on issues related to the work of the committee and to ensure that we receive a copy of the appropriate paperwork, preferably in advance, but at latest at the same time. Secondly, the minister indicated fairly strongly that her understanding, whether from her officials or not, was that she was required to provide papers to the committee only 24 hours in advance of a meeting. I have checked the matter out and that was not the case. Our clerks were quite clear about the need to get the papers and were very co-operative in trying to get them to us. I will ask the minister to withdraw the comments that she made at the previous meeting, because we feel that they were inappropriate, given the support that we get on this committee. A lot of our work will be dealt with under the agenda item on the draft timetable. Am I missing anything out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18279,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ID": 18279,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 603537,
      "EditedText": "That is the date the clerk recommended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 603541,
      "EditedText": "It is important to be clear about the focus and remit of this inquiry. The focus needs to be reworded so that the remit is absolutely clear. I suggest that the focus should be changed to read that the committee intends to establish an inquiry into the links between drugs and poverty in Scotland. It is the link between drugs and poverty that is important. There are other aspects of social exclusion, for example exclusion on the basis of ethnic group or sexual orientation, but they are not the issues that we want to examine. We want to examine the direct link between drugs and poverty and deprivation in Scotland. We need to be precise about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 603542,
      "EditedText": "I should point out that the paper recommends that we refocus once we have taken evidence and once members feel more fully briefed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 603543,
      "EditedText": "I am not happy with what Alex has just said, simply because the drugs issue is a crisis in Scotland that knows no boundaries, whether of class or wealth. The drugs problem in oil-rich, cash-rich Aberdeen, for example, is severe. The city has been called the heroin capital of Europe. There would be a problem if we tied down the focus as Alex suggests. I strongly agree, however, with the statement in the second paragraph—that\"Much of the political debate centres on crime and enforcement.\"We need to move things on. The debate is becoming bogged down in crime and enforcement. That is certainly how I have felt over the past three days, listening to the statements of the Prime Minister, the Home Secretary and, indeed, the First Minister. We must put the emphasis on the other side—treatment, rehabilitation, after care and what we can do to help drug addicts. The inquiry should focus on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 603548,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is the general focus, but when we examine drugs we will spill over into other issues. There is a huge gender dimension to drugs; consider prostitution in Glasgow, which has a huge connection with drugs.If the wording is too narrow, we might miss out some of the added dimensions. There is no doubt that the effects spill outwith the heavily deprived areas. We must be focused, but I hoped that some of the ways we examine the issue—where we hear evidence from—might throw up some of those connections. Talking to families and addicts might give us that. When I say the missing dimension, I mean the communities that have borne the worst. That is classically the deprived areas of Scotland, but I do not want to tie us down too much at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 603555,
      "EditedText": "Glasgow has been suggested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 603558,
      "EditedText": "I have written rural issues into the paper for that reason."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 603560,
      "EditedText": "I will recap on what I have in front of me so far, which might help us with the planning. This depends on what Martin says and on what we decide about the rest of the work, but I have asked Sue Morris if she would be prepared to attend next week's meeting. It would have to be an informal session, because it would be difficult to arrange a formal one, but she could give us an hour's input on what information is available to us. I would then recommend, in the lead-up to November, that we have two seminar days in that preliminary phase. In those seminars we could address questions such as where we are at the moment, what the state of play is regarding research and information—because there are big gaps there—and what we know about health and social trends. Apparently one of the key agencies is the Executive's public health policy unit. It collates all the Government information. Other questions include the medical position and what the debate is on methadone prescribing and similar issues. We need to look at the service providers—the agencies and what the voluntary and statutory sectors provide. There is also a big debate around what treatments are available. Finally, we will see what resources are available.Perhaps we could take a Monday and a Friday out to have two seminar days on that and brief ourselves thoroughly in October and November. Once we are briefed, it might be worthwhile getting a minister to attend the committee. Given what we now know about questioning ministers, we should invite Angus MacKay to come along, as he heads up the drugs work in Scotland. We could question him about the Executive's strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 603562,
      "EditedText": "I take that point, but we do not need to question him on that. He is chairing the ministerial task force."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 603565,
      "EditedText": "A bit like Mike, I am averse to inviting more than one minister at a time unless that is absolutely necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 603567,
      "EditedText": "We should invite both Angus and Jackie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 603569,
      "EditedText": "One thing that we should keep in focus is why people are getting into drugs at an ever younger age. We should look at the problem from that angle. If we can stop such behaviour in the first place, so much the better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 603571,
      "EditedText": "Let us move on to discuss our draft timetable of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
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      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 603577,
      "EditedText": "I understand that Peter McKinlay will retire at the end of the year. I am not sure whether that will be this year or the end of March."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 603579,
      "EditedText": "It will be quite soon. There is no indication that Scottish Homes will be affected during that period. John Ward will be appointed temporary chief executive, after Peter McKinlay leaves, for a further year. It is expected that a decision will be arrived at in 2000. That is something on which we should seek clarification. We need up-to-date information on the review of Scottish Homes, as I do not have an answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 603581,
      "EditedText": "Surely not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 603583,
      "EditedText": "We could undertake the drugs work on our seminar days and make progress on the housing work during our formal committee slots. That means taking up a bit of time, but I get the impression that members are willing to give that time. Martin, will you say a few words about our proposals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 603597,
      "EditedText": "Initially, we should devote our days out to the drugs inquiry. Once we get on to the anti-poverty strategy, we will become involved in other things. Would those suggestions set a sensible pattern?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 603603,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 603604,
      "EditedText": "It is acknowledged that there should be some flexibility. Legislation on warrant sales, for example, might come to this committee and other matters will be drawn to our attention.On our anti-poverty work, I suggest that—as there have been hassles getting people together—the group meets during the recess. We are going to have problems with dates.The committee must give attention to issues that relate to the broad strategy of social inclusion, which includes anti-poverty work. We need to get the anti-poverty group together but it is important that members understand that we cannot get all the work done before Christmas. However, I congratulate members on their commitment and energy.We must be thoughtful in our strategy. We cannot tackle all the issues in the next two weeks and there will inevitably be frustration and difficulties. We must be sensible—we have four years in which to tackle some of the issues. Some issues—such as the housing stock transfer—are pressing and we need to think them through. I intend no disrespect to the work of the anti-poverty group—please do not interpret it in that way, Keith—but the housing stock issue has crept ahead of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 603605,
      "EditedText": "I would like to flag up another important issue. When I was on select committees in that other place down south, we did not timetable inquiries. Inquiries would drag on and on and, by the time we reached the end, we had forgotten about the evidence that we had taken.Because we are running three different things at the same time there is a danger that, when we come to reporting and making recommendations, we will be doing too much at once. We must be careful. I do not want to set an artificial deadline of Christmas, but we must set a timetable to ensure that we do not go on for an inordinate length of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 603606,
      "EditedText": "Bearing in mind some of the comments that were made earlier, it would seem that a timetable is being shaped. We have a timetable for the drugs inquiry that I hope we can stick to—so far, it looks as though we will.The housing work is running in parallel with the drugs work. We must strike a balance between briefings and public hearings and we must be ready to concentrate on responding to the work of the Executive early in the new year. We must think about that work, which will be fairly strenuous.A small group should do the anti-poverty work in the background. That is not to say that that work will be neglected or that it is unimportant, but I do not think that it is likely that there will be legislation on that by February, although I might be wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 603609,
      "EditedText": "That is not the one that I would pull out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 603615,
      "EditedText": "I remind the committee that the establishment of formal sub-committees has to go to the Parliamentary Bureau. That is why I called the working group an ad hoc group. I do not know what the technical differences are, but we should avoid the term sub-committee.Let us talk about next week's meeting. We have agreed that Sue Morris will attend. Martin, are there any other formal commitments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 603621,
      "EditedText": "We have to discuss objective 3 next week. I know that we broke the rules as soon as we made them, which sets a bad precedent, but next week will be more a business-type meeting than a formal investigation of a subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 603626,
      "EditedText": "We have agreed that we will follow up today's SCVO briefing and take 15 minutes to set some action points. How long has Volunteer Development Scotland been given?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 603628,
      "EditedText": "We should go with the drugs paper and objective 3 funding and take 15 minutes—even if it is in our business session—to distil the points that SCVO raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603630",
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      "ID": 3351
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 603630,
      "EditedText": "We want the briefing soon."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603640",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 603640,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.469486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603642",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 603642,
      "EditedText": "If it is difficult to organise a meeting during the recess, Margaret, would it be possible to meet on the Friday before the recess?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603643,
      "EditedText": "That is next Friday."
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603647,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603649",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 603649,
      "EditedText": "If members want to discuss objective 3 funding next week, we can get a member of the planning team along to assist the committee."
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    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603652",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 603652,
      "EditedText": "Martin, I know that papers on objective 3 funding are circulating—the European Committee has one—but are there any other relevant papers on the subject?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
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      "EditedText": "All that we have—it is all that the European Committee is going to have, I think—is the paper itself. It is huge—it runs to 191 pages—and we have sent it to each of you. There is also a six or seven page summary, which the clerk of the European Committee has prepared. Other than that, I am not aware of any material that is specifically relevant to social inclusion. However, the paper itself has a lot to say about social inclusion issues."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603654",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 603654,
      "EditedText": "In future, we will have a private session of 15 minutes or half an hour at the beginning of meetings to deal with our housekeeping issues. We have to let the public know that those sessions are likely to last for half an hour, which unfortunately eats up a lot of our time."
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:19."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 603488,
      "EditedText": "Connie, would you like to comment?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603490",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 603490,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much indeed—that was extremely interesting and helpful. We will consider your comments, although I find it hard to have this discussion when members are sitting behind me—it makes me nervous. I ask members to put general questions before we come back to specific points. We have quite a lot of information and I assume that, after last week's debate, members are relatively well informed."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603498",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
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      "EditedText": "As I said in my introduction, in principle, the diversity and pluralism of the voluntary sector is one of its strengths. In some circumstances, it can be a weakness. There is no doubt that the public think that there are too many charities—that is suggested by our opinion poll research. Nobody has yet come up with a scheme that retains the pluralism but reduces the number of organisations, and I am not sure whether that would be a desirable outcome."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603499",
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    },
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 603499,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether the committee can tackle that either."
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  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603494",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 603494,
      "EditedText": "When we were undertaking research into this subject, we were greatly encouraged by the fact that some 300,000 people in Scotland were prepared to give so willingly of their time and money to run organisations. It is also significant that the sector now employs 100,000 people. Given that between £450 million and £500 million of public money goes into the voluntary sector, we clearly have to ensure not only that we get value for money, but that that money is used to the maximum possible effect.Across the sector, one full-time employee supervises the work of three volunteers. We must bear in mind the fact that we are dealing with volunteers—who all, understandably, want to be involved in their own charity or organisation—but I wonder whether the evidence suggests that the voluntary sector could be better focused. As I go through the list of organisations, I notice that often two or three of them are, in effect, doing the same thing. One does not wish to exclude anyone from doing good work—far from it—but we must ensure that the good work provides the maximum possible benefit to the community."
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  {
    "ID": "C603495",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
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      "EditedText": "I recognise that as one of the themes that ran through last week's debate. Those who work in the sector face a dilemma: on the one hand, if you see a list of organisations that are all doing the same thing at the same time, it is right to consider how their work could be streamlined and made more effective; on the other hand, the right of people to come together to pursue their own interests in their own way ought to be protected. In the current climate, marriages in the voluntary sector have been rather difficult to establish, although there have been one or two good examples of organisations merging. Perhaps an incentive scheme should be established to enable that to happen more effectively. However, the motivation of individuals is at the heart of the voluntary sector, and sometimes those individuals see things differently, as is their right.Every working day, four new charities are formed in Scotland. That figure never ceased to stagger me. From one perspective, it indicates the vibrancy of the sector, although that is looking at it from a business perspective. However, we are not like businesses—we do not have a Bank of Scotland taking over another big business. We tend to have different motivations, which have to be respected, although I would not deny that there is added value to be had from organisations coming together."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603497",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 603497,
      "EditedText": "I profoundly disagree with Bill. Although there is obviously a need for co-ordination and an umbrella organisation, we are dealing with the voluntary sector. The deputy chief constable of Lothian and Borders Police recently called for the drugs agencies to be streamlined. I get very worried about the word streamlining—it usually means culling. In other words, to reduce the number of agencies, some of them have to be killed off. I know a bit about the drugs agencies. An enormous number of highly experienced people are dealing with the drugs issue on the front line. If agencies are culled, we might lose those people permanently, which would be an irreparable loss. We face a drugs crisis, but it would be infinitely worse if those people in those agencies were not doing the excellent work that they do. Would Martin like to comment on that, as he, too, mentioned streamlining?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
      "HeadingID": 18278,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Maxwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 603501,
      "EditedText": "There certainly is a case for that. The Scottish Office and, I think, the Scottish Executive accepted in principle the case for three-year funding. It is honoured by public funding bodies as much in the breach as in the observance. We hope that, as the compact is implemented, the practice of three-year funding will be applied more widely.Three years should be the minimum period of funding. Some organisations—including, it must be said, some parts of the lottery—make funding available for longer periods. Longer-term funding is clearly desirable when funding is for sport and infrastructure, or for work in areas of particular disadvantage. Urban programme funding and funding under social inclusion partnerships are usually for more than three years.We come back to the point that, although we are dependent on public sources for about 35 per cent or 40 per cent of our total funding, the fact that the voluntary sector can draw in funding from many different sources helps to underpin the sector's independence. Of course we want to expand public funding for the sector and get funding on better terms, which allows for better planning, but we are keen to develop alternative sources of funding, as they are the guarantee of the autonomy of voluntary organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
      "HeadingID": 18278,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Connie Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 603508,
      "EditedText": "Charity fraud is difficult to measure because there is so little regulation. The Scottish Charities Office has a responsive role. It does not proactively investigate in the same way that the Charity Commission does in England. Essentially, we have no measure. As members might be aware, the SCVO runs a register of charities in Scotland. In the absence of a statutory register, and legally, under the Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Scotland) Act 1990, any member of the public can ask for a copy of the annual accounts and the memorandum of a charity. We have been doing that on a rolling basis for four years. We still have around a 40 per cent non-response rate from recognised charities in Scotland. We would suggest that that is mostly accounted for by dormant charities, which no longer exist, or by people who are unaware of the legislation that obliges them to return those requests. Included in that figure are probably some fraudulent charities. It is a chicken-and-egg situation: until we have tighter regulation, it is hard to assess how bad things are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 603513,
      "EditedText": "I preface my remarks by registering an interest: I am a member of the board of management of the Volunteer Centre in Glasgow and have been for the past four years. That will not impact on either of the points that I want to make.The first concerns the important issue—also raised by Fiona Hyslop—of the sector's relationship with the national lottery and the new opportunities fund. Before the legislation that introduced the new opportunities fund was passed, discussion took place on whether there should be a Scottish equivalent, for that fund, of the National Lottery Charities Board's Scottish committee. The view at the time was that account should be taken of Scottish interests. Many people thought that that was not an adequate response.What has been the SCVO's experience of the new opportunities fund? Although the lottery is a reserved matter, how does Stephen Maxwell think the committee could try to advance the effect of funding from the new opportunities fund in Scotland? Stephen mentioned that a commitment had been made to try to \"Scotticise\" the fund as far as possible—to what extent has that happened?My second point concerns something that Connie said about a register of charities and voluntary organisations in Scotland. I was astonished to hear that four such groups are set up every week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
      "HeadingID": 18278,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Maxwell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 603516,
      "EditedText": "The case was made during the passage of the legislation that provision should be made for a Scottish committee or advisory group on the new opportunities fund. An advisory group exists for healthy living centres and there is a separate structure for the child care stream, but no Scottish advisory group for the new opportunities fund is capable of taking an overall view of fund allocations or identifying how adequate those allocations are for Scottish conditions and priorities. That dimension might be worth pursuing. In addition, Parliament might seek to have formal powers to issue policy directions to the new opportunities fund, to cover its Scottish operations. There is a commitment to do that from the First Minister, but it has not yet been carried out.Mike Watson asked what evidence exists so far on how the lack of a Scottish structure has affected the operation of the new opportunities fund. Perhaps it is a little early to be sure—for example, the healthy living centres have only a limited number of applications—so it is difficult to generalise. On child care provision, there are certainly concerns that the allocations that are being made and the structures that are in place do not give sufficient support to the voluntary sector's contribution. In particular, the allocations and structures do not give sufficient support to the growth of the voluntary sector's capacity to contribute to the range of child care provision. However, these are relatively early days and the situation would be well worth monitoring, to ascertain whether firm evidence emerges on how the lack of a firm Scottish structure affects the operation of the fund in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
      "HeadingID": 18278,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 603519,
      "EditedText": "Could you give me an idea of what is happening on the campaign for the waiver on water rates? What does the SCVO think that the committee could do to assist the campaign?Could you give me an idea of what the current position is with regard to three-year funding from local authorities to the voluntary sector? What concerns do you have about the overall input of funding from local authorities, especially in light of some of the things that were said in the voluntary sector debate last week about developing closer, perhaps even statutory, links?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 603525,
      "EditedText": "That is an issue that we will have to consider. It will be on our agenda again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 603526,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I accept Mr Raffan's analysis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 603527,
      "EditedText": "There is obviously disagreement about that.There was no time for me to put my questions to the witnesses. I wanted to ask you about the difference between the community and voluntary sectors, but we will discuss that on another occasion.I want to thank you on behalf of the committee for an excellent presentation. It was focused in an extremely helpful way. We will undoubtedly return to those themes. We are about to move on to other aspects of the problem. When we deal with them, we need to take account of the specific questions that you raised and to reflect on some of the issues relating to charity law. Unfortunately, we did not have a chance to discuss with you in depth issues such as independence. I understand that you would be more than willing to meet us formally and informally to do that. I assure you that this matter will remain on our agenda and that we will return to it. Thank you for your presentation and for the work that you do. We look forward to having an on-going relationship with you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Sime: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 603528,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your interest in our work. We look forward to hearing from you and continuing the dialogue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18279,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
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      "ID": 18279,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 603530,
      "EditedText": "It was explained that the travel funding available—which amounts to £170,000—while not enough for a whole year, is likely to be more than adequate for the remaining five months of this year. It is recommended that any committee that wishes to travel should now put in bids to the conveners liaison group and to the Parliamentary Bureau, which hopes to consider them favourably."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18279,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 603533,
      "EditedText": "The paper on objective 3 is not on the agenda. We need to decide when that will be discussed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 603534,
      "EditedText": "That will come up under the item on the draft timetable. The clerk has brought that to our attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 603536,
      "EditedText": "Does that give us enough time to get back to the European Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Action Points",
      "HeadingID": 18279,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 99.0,
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      "ID": 18279,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 603538,
      "EditedText": "We will consider the paper next week then. I am glad, because it will take me until then to read it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 603540,
      "EditedText": "I want to put on record my thanks to Sue Morris at the information centre who worked with me on this paper and who has been extremely helpful. I met her at a conference yesterday and we have come up with some recommendations for how some of the points that have been raised can be pursued. First, however, we need to work through this paper. Are there any general points about the paper, before we move on to discuss it section by section?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 603551,
      "EditedText": "That is generous of you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 603553,
      "EditedText": "I will let Keith speak in a second. I considered how we should do this before I drafted the paper. We have spoken to a number of organisations and users. We asked their views on whether they are prepared to give evidence. Some of the evidence that we hear about the services and experiences will be very strong. People are willing to give evidence. We must ensure that we do it sensitively so that we get proper evidence and information. The organisations and groups with which I am familiar are up to speed and can help us on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 603554,
      "EditedText": "Fiona's point is important. There are a number of drugs agencies close to the Parliament buildings, such as Crew 2000. I have been to very useful meetings with them, but that is not the same as going to housing estates or into the deprived areas where addiction has hit so hard. We will do that too, but it is good to meet the voluntary agencies at their place of work. We can do a lot within a radius of about one mile of this building."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 603556,
      "EditedText": "Seeing a lot of the agencies may be an appropriate place to start—whether in small groups or the whole lot of us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 603557,
      "EditedText": "I would like to raise a couple of points. First, if a group of people wants to give evidence to us but does not want to do that in the full glare of publicicity, we should be prepared to be flexible enough to take some evidence in private. Secondly, it should be incumbent on us to look at this as both an urban and a rural problem. I am keen to go to Glasgow—I am always keen to go to Glasgow—but we should look at the rural aspects of this problem too. In a number of rural areas, including mine, drugs is just as big a problem—if not a bigger one—as it is in some parts of urban Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 18280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 603563,
      "EditedText": "Does he know enough about the other—Jackie's field?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 603575,
      "EditedText": "In the light of the uncertain future of Scottish Homes, is not the exercise that was proposed for 27 October redundant?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 603585,
      "EditedText": "I think that we must make a decision about our modus operandi and our work pattern. It seems to me that we want to cover three or four strands of work: housing, anti-poverty strategies—on which we want to make a start—drugs and, possibly, warrant sales. We need to establish one of two patterns. We could rotate the subjects at each committee meeting, so this week we look at housing, next week we look at drugs, the following week we look at housing again and then the week after we look at warrant sales, or whatever. Alternatively, as we have only two hours per week for public business, we could decide to spend one hour on, say, housing and one hour on drugs and then the next week we would spend one hour on housing and one hour on the anti-poverty strategy, and so on. We need to establish a pattern so that we are clear about where we are trying to go in order to ensure that we allocate time appropriately. At the moment, we are a wee bit all over the place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 603587,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that Alex raised that point—I was going to raise it at the end of the meeting if no one else did. We are juggling a lot of issues in the air and I am concerned that we will end up not dealing with any of them as thoroughly or as well as we should. Furthermore, while I am happy to give the time, there is a problem for members who are members of other committees. Other members are affected, too—I am not using this as an excuse to be let off work—and we have other commitments. We will have to consider our modus operandi, such as breaking into smaller groups on particular issues, which has been suggested, although I am not proposing it. An evidence session that lasts just an hour is not satisfactory—I do not think that it was particularly satisfactory this morning. We must consider carefully how we operate; otherwise it will look as if we are only skimming the surface."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 603590,
      "EditedText": "Does that answer some of the points that members have raised?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 603595,
      "EditedText": "We must establish a pattern, and I agree with Keith and Robert about the need for debriefing sessions. This morning we finished in mid air, as it were, without knowing what we were going to do, although the SVCO gave us five action points to consider. I have a number of suggestions. First, I suggest that we should devote each public meeting to one subject area rather than covering two or three. Secondly, we should concentrate either on housing or on the anti-poverty strategy or on drugs. We should have a system for rotating subject areas unless something urgent comes up. Thirdly, our visitations—perhaps I should say days out instead of visitations—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 603598,
      "EditedText": "We keep talking about an anti-poverty strategy, but I cannot see anything about it on the timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18281,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 603601,
      "EditedText": "I agree with every point that Alex made—which is worrying.I am not criticising anyone but I would add that we should have a minimum of two hours when we are taking evidence or being briefed—for example, when we discuss a drugs agency. We might want to hear evidence from two or three people in that time. We could easily have gone on for two hours today. We must be able to explore a number of issues and I, for one, had more questions to ask."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 603602,
      "EditedText": "I take your point. Are the principles that Alex mentioned broadly agreed to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 603611,
      "EditedText": "Items are on the committee timetable to let us know that they are available to us, not necessarily to tell us when we have to have them."
    },
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  },
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    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603614",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 603614,
      "EditedText": "On the sub-committee on the anti-poverty strategy, one way forward could be for a small working group to present a paper to the committee, before each inquiry, on how it thinks that the inquiry should go. Margaret has borne the brunt of the work on the drugs inquiry. A group of two or three of us would share out the work load. It might be a good way of carrying out the work in the preparatory phase before the inquiry."
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  {
    "ID": "C603619",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603619,
      "EditedText": "Unfortunately, it will not be possible to have the housing finance briefing next week."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603622",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 603622,
      "EditedText": "That means that there are three items for next week: Sue Morris, objective 3 and Volunteer Development Scotland."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603624",
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    },
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 603624,
      "EditedText": "The problem is that we keep making decisions and then overturning them. If you look at the Official Report of our meetings, you will find us changing decisions week by week."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
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      "EditedText": "The end justifies the means."
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  {
    "ID": "C603629",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603629,
      "EditedText": "When would you like to hear the briefing on housing finance? Reasonable notice should be given."
    },
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    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603633",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 603633,
      "EditedText": "What about 27 October?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603634",
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    },
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 603634,
      "EditedText": "We decided that we needed two hours for Scottish Homes on 27 October."
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603636,
      "EditedText": "The meeting does not have to be formal."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603638,
      "EditedText": "If committee members want a briefing session during the recess, I will see whether that can be arranged."
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    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603639",
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    },
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      "EditedText": "What do you think, John?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603646",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 603646,
      "EditedText": "Martin, will you check people's availability for 25 October?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603648",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 603648,
      "EditedText": "At the end of this meeting, we will get together and check all possible dates with the clerks. We need to feed all our decisions on subject areas, scheduling and meetings to the clerks, so that they can keep updating the committee's timetable. We need to bear in mind the fact that the issue of warrant sales may disrupt our planning, but we will keep you informed on that. Have I missed anything?"
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  },
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    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603650",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 603650,
      "EditedText": "That would be welcome."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C603651",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603651,
      "EditedText": "The Equal Opportunities Committee may also want to discuss an objective 3 paper at its meeting next Tuesday. It will not be possible for a member of the planning team to go to that meeting, so I have been asked to find out whether this committee would be happy if one or two members of the Equal Opportunities Committee attended our meeting next week and asked questions about equal opportunities.Members indicated agreement."
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 603610,
      "EditedText": "It might not be. Unless we can take immediate action on something, we will have to be ruthless. We should put all the reports in the context of the work of the committee. Doing that might lighten the work load in November, when we hope to do other things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3351
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 18281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ID": 18281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 603637,
      "EditedText": "No, we just want an informal briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:34.1007034+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12924,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12924,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 478157,
      "EditedText": "The minister is with us today. We have discussed what is and is not contentious in the McIntosh report over the past few weeks. One of the things that was marginally contentious, and which Wendy Alexander put on the back burner on 2 July, was the power of general competence. I see in The Scotsman that the power of general competence—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 478163,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Frank McAveety. I also welcome Ted and David. I apologise, as I do not know your second names. It is good to have you here.I will conduct the business as we have in the past, when we have had a minister—or the Accounts Commission for Scotland—before us. Members will all have a chance to ask a question and a supplementary. I will note the issues that members might wish to pursue, and we will pick them up.Frank will be here for an hour. I hope that we use that time appropriately. If there is anything that I consider should be discussed after Frank has left, I will stop the member. There is an appropriate point at which to raise issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 478165,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Frank. I had requested that the document be sent to committee members' homes. That does not appear to have happened, so perhaps we could look into that. It is a bit difficult to have received it only this morning, but I am sure that we have lots of questions to ask you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 478168,
      "EditedText": "The Executive is not reflecting the enthusiasm of this committee.  We should guard against that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 478171,
      "EditedText": "Gil should read the consultation paper, which identifies local government issues that have been out there in the ether for a long time, such as the debate about a power of general competence. My view, based on my experience in local government, is that that is something for which local government can argue strongly. I have a hunch that, in submissions to the consultation paper, local government will be able to demonstrate the role that it has to play, and communities can benefit from that. I assure members that the process is part of the consultation paper and will influence any debate and any legislative programme or local government bill that may emerge in future. I can further assure members that the thought processes of the committee will influence and shape that work. Ultimately, it will be neither the committee nor the Executive that will legislate—it will be the Parliament itself. Members know as well as I do that Parliament will determine the powers on the strength of the arguments that are presented."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 478175,
      "EditedText": "The two most important issues are finance and general competence. You have asked us not to ask about finance—which is a pity, as I hoped that you might give us a better answer than Jack McConnell gave. Johann has dealt with general competence.I thought that McIntosh had killed off the idea of elected provosts, but there is a whole page about elected provosts in the response. Some of us are keen on resurrection in another context, but why has that been resurrected?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 478180,
      "EditedText": "If one looks at the number of people that left local government at the previous election, one might think that you and I were on the escape committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 478182,
      "EditedText": "In terms of the broader debate, the piece in The Scotsman was inaccurate. The documents looks at the arguments for and against the powers of general competence. As I said earlier, I think that that debate is legitimate and that local government should have an opportunity to make that point.It strikes me that—as often happens in local government—folk have argued a point without necessarily examining the consequences and the meaning behind the words because there is a natural opposition that exists between the Executive and local government. That has existed for a considerable time.We have an opportunity in this new Parliament to try to narrow that natural opposition, which exists because of the differences between those bodies. The Executive is a legislative body and local government is about delivery of services. There is an opportunity for local government to influence that. I am happy to hear those innovative voices, because they can influence and shape the debate. I would like to see that there is commonality of interest.We have an opportunity to influence that debate using the committee's perspective and my role as a member of the Executive. We should try to shape the debate to make a difference to communities. Underpinning the debate should be the question of whether it makes a difference to the effectiveness of councils and their delivery of services. We should be party to the process of improving the quality of life in an area. We should operate on the principle that we will achieve consensus, irrespective of the fact that our political perspectives and experience might be different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 478191,
      "EditedText": "There is a society of local authority lawyers. I have spoken to two or three of its members, who compiled a list of areas in which powers of general competence existed which, if changed, they thought would help them. They sent that list to a previous secretary of state. It might have ended up in a bucket, so I will not name that person. I have asked them to reproduce the list and I shall bring it to the committee. That may widen that part of the debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 478194,
      "EditedText": "The question is, will your bill change that, to ensure that such a situation will not be permitted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 478195,
      "EditedText": "Given the interest that was shown in that debate last week, the Standards Committee will probably address such matters much more effectively than I could in a minute or two. The issue is not whether lobbying takes place; it is the transparency and openness of that engagement that should be considered. I know, from my experience in local government, that many folk will lobby local councillors to influence key decisions. The vast majority of those key decisions should be opened for public debate; however, most of the lobbying is carried out because of the long-term interests of that particular area. A number of organisations might seek to influence economic development strategies for the city of Glasgow, for example. That is a legitimate call. On its own, a local authority could provide that kind of improvement.I would welcome openness and transparency in the lobbying industry in Scotland. That would also be welcome in enterprise companies. Many members of all political parties have had contracts with enterprise companies at the same time as they have sat on and influenced different boards. I am sure that members of Mr Gibson's party, as well as of mine, have engaged in that process. The openness of that process is at issue, not necessarily participation in it. However, it would be more appropriate for the Standards Committee to address that issue, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 478197,
      "EditedText": "Kenny, I will come back to you. I have made a note of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 478198,
      "EditedText": "I will just call you Frank. Is that okay? You will not get any disagreement from anyone about the need for best value. There is a debate about who judges what is best value, who sets the criteria and who makes the final decisions. Could you give us some indication of the Executive's thinking, or your own thinking, on the need for a representative body to address best value, rather than faceless bureaucrats judging what is essential for local people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 478199,
      "EditedText": "Of all the programmes to change and improve local government, including those to modernise the structures of political management, the one that can—if undertaken effectively—make the most substantial difference to ordinary members of the public is best value. My experience of going around local council leaders as well as of meeting local council groups and individuals in the community is that there is a greater willingness to see how best value can contribute positively to an improvement strategy for local government. One of the key issues is about the use of performance indicators, and we want to bring together a series of ideas around that issue. We will review the debate around best value over the next five to six weeks, to consider ways in which we can work with COSLA and local government and to find ways in which all parties can have a mutually beneficial perspective on best value.Underpinning best value is the wish to move away from the unwieldy structure that operated under compulsory competitive tendering. Even when the most right-wing Conservative Government was dedicated to outsourcing local government services, it only managed to outsource 1 per cent. Even with the political will and intent behind CCT, the Conservative Government could not deliver the sort of outcomes that it sought. From my own experience, many local authorities were tied up in the endless pursuit of trying to get a package together to suit the unwieldiness of CCT. There is an opportunity to relax CCT and to put much more focus on best value. We must try to get standardisation across Scotland. We have a great opportunity to do that. There are only 32 councils, and I do not think that it is beyond our ken to work up a strategy over a period of time to bring together performance indicators that we can all buy into and recognise as good standards. We could then ask local authorities to take greater responsibility.It strikes me that best value will only work if people have ownership of it. If it is seen as someone elsewhere determining what is best value—someone who has come in at the tail end of the debate—there will not be that modernisation process that is essential across many public services in Scotland and that can be obtained from best value. My experience has been drawn from looking around local government. When councils—elected members and staff—have engaged in that transparent programme and when they have engaged in consultation with the end users—the public—they find that they make savings from it that can be redirected into other areas of priority service or within the same service.The job of ministers is to encourage and to ensure that local government takes responsibility for best value. One of the key issues in the leadership forum is the willingness of many council leaders to recognise their key role in that change agenda. I want to introduce new ideas before the end of the year about how best value can be enhanced and improved in Scotland, so that it can be made meaningful for the users. It is a complex issue and there will always be those who claim that the decisions are made by faceless bureaucrats who do not understand the local community. That is understandable at a local level, but the truth of the matter, Michael, is that best value will only work if it is done at a local level and if people understand the parameters and expectations that are placed upon them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 478202,
      "EditedText": "That is why I said working together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 478204,
      "EditedText": "We have just under 15 minutes. I will take members in the order in which they spoke before. I ask members to forget their communist backgrounds and give us the question and not the story."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 478207,
      "EditedText": "I have a lot of questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 478209,
      "EditedText": "I want to remind Gil of recent history, in case someone is tempted to rewrite it, as is traditional in some political ideologies. Laughter. In her statement to the Parliament of 2 July, Wendy Alexander said quite clearly that we would set up a leadership advisory panel, as recommended by McIntosh. We have met that recommendation to the letter. She also said that we wanted to establish a group that would focus on renewing local democracy. The debate on the McIntosh report has focused on proportional representation, but we feel that many other issues need to be part of it.Both committees have cross-party support. I do not think that anyone in Parliament objected to their establishment; rather people welcomed the opportunity to explore the issues. The groups will report back to the Executive and the Parliament, so every MSP will have an opportunity to influence the debate.The consultation paper deals with the issues raised by the McIntosh report. This committee will have an opportunity to influence the consultation process through individual submissions. Local authorities will also have an opportunity to contribute to the debate. I cannot imagine a more transparent and open system. I do not accept that there is a farrago of conspiracy to keep people in the dark. The consultation paper gives people an opportunity to influence what will happen.As I said to Sylvia, I want to engage with the committee as much as possible and to discuss ways in which we can work effectively to set challenges and improve the agenda for local government. Our Parliament will not be seen as effective unless it helps to improve local government.Some people in local government argue that MSPs have no right to express an opinion on this matter. Why, they ask, should MSPs have a say in determining the future of local government? My response is that the people of Scotland expect a devolved Parliament to address their concerns and put in place an effective improvement strategy. This is not about punishing local government, but about welcoming good practice and ensuring that it becomes standard across Scotland.I want to reassure Gil that the committee is absolutely central to this process. I have views on the way forward for local government, some of which will be shared by most members of this committee. However, there are issues on which we may disagree profoundly. Is that not what the new politics is all about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 478210,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to make heavy weather of this, but the document was misrepresented because it was already in the public domain. At issue is why it did not come to us in advance.We are not a sub-committee of the Executive, which has its own agenda. The task of this committee is to scrutinise the work of the Executive; that will be one of the sources of creative tension in the Parliament. Where possible, ministers should be sensitive to the role of this committee. This is a general point that I would like the convener to raise at the committee of conveners. I have already asked the convener of the Equal Opportunities Committee to do so. Ministers are not the only people who have used committees to bounce an idea into the public domain. We know that some members have spun stories out of statements that they have made in committee, telling journalists that they intend to say something so that it can be reported afterwards. That has to be dealt with if we are to have faith in the committee structure.What authority do the committee on PR and the advisory panel have? What will happen after Kerley reports? Will his recommendations simply be accepted, or will there be an opportunity to discuss the practicalities of delivering a system for local government that differs from that which operates for elections to other levels of government? What power does the leadership forum have to intervene when it feels that a local authority is failing to deliver what it defines as good practice, even though the local authority is convinced that it is doing a good job and can demonstrate that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 478211,
      "EditedText": "Both Kerley and MacNish are to report back to the Parliament, which will then decide what course of action to take. The Executive and the Parliament will have to come back to the debate on electoral systems and it must be framed in such a way that we can address all the concerns. When we get the Kerley report—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 478218,
      "EditedText": "We will come back to that if we have time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 478216,
      "EditedText": "With respect, there is no real difference between an executive and a cabinet. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 478221,
      "EditedText": "Minister, what safeguards do you propose to limit over-zealous ministerial intervention in local government?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 478227,
      "EditedText": "I would encourage the committee to visit and exchange views with as many councils as possible. I know that resources are tight, so you might want to prioritise three or four councils.I made the rash commitment, Michael, to visit all local councils in Scotland. My private secretary has told me that every previous minister who tried that either found themselves out of office before they went round or was transferred. I leave you to determine my future in that respect—answers on a postcard please.Local authorities have welcomed my visits. Some of them have said that they had spent two years trying to get a minister from the previous Government to visit them. They were delighted to see me, even when they were giving me a hard time. I participated in question and answer sessions in front of the full council. I made efforts to meet all the senior council figures. Wherever possible, I have tried to address full council meetings. I have also met the wider public.I am also considering whether to put out an information newsletter to elected members in Scotland, which would address the key priorities that the Executive has identified. In my local area, I have had to fend off questions about the subtext behind our response to McIntosh. One of the lovely questions that I was asked was whether the leadership advisory panel was a quango, in which everyone was getting well paid. I want to reassure the committee that everyone on the panel is participating voluntarily; the only costs will relate to their expenses for the panel's meetings or visits. No one is getting paid. I think that that is a unique achievement. The more that we get out and reassure people that this is about genuine partnership the better. We should set exacting standards. Just because someone on a local authority says that they do something wonderfully does not mean that we should accept their word for it; we should ask them to demonstrate it. One of the key issues is the way in which we use the Parliament and this committee to engage in that process. It is important that we celebrate those people who are innovative and forward thinking and that we bring them forward through good practice and development.As elected members, members of the committee can hold the debate with local elected councillors and try to engage with them in a mutually beneficial process. People like to have the opportunity to exchange views. I have found that, once I speak to people, I can disabuse them of some of the myths that are too easily peddled at a local level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 478230,
      "EditedText": "To sum up, Frank, you have probably got the message that we are concerned that we have been reading about matters in the newspapers when we think that we should have heard about them directly. We are concerned about the make-up of advisory forums and the selection of the champions for change—again, things that we have read about in the press. I hope that you will take those concerns on board, because until now, the committee has been very dedicated. We want to get the message out to representatives of local government that we are for them, not against them. Looking around the room, you will see that we have a few visitors from local government. They may have different opinions about local government, but they certainly believe that it is the right way of delivering services to the people of Scotland. We want that to continue. We have some major concerns. Although the members of the committee apply themselves and know their subject, at times we wonder why we are here. We have asked that question and it needs to be answered.I support what you said about the comments made at the meeting of the leadership forum, which, according to council leaders, was the first time that ministers and civil servants had stayed with them for the whole day. That is a step forward.This has been a constructive meeting. Having expressed our concerns, we have begun to get to the meat of the matter. As I said to Jack McConnell, we will have you back. I hope that, when we invite you back, your diary will have a bigger space and you will be able to be with us for longer. I am aware that I allowed members only one question and a quick supplementary—that was unfair, as it did not allow them to pursue issues.With the committee's agreement, we will now take a break for five minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 478231,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 478232,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 478234,
      "EditedText": "I want to say something about my earlier intervention. I did not intend to abuse the chair, but I felt very strongly that, if I made my point then, it would be reinforced as the meeting wore on. I will do that again only in exceptional circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 478235,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that that is true."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 478236,
      "EditedText": "Colin is not exactly famous for his bad temper and rancour—are you, darling?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 478244,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to ways of consulting councils and council service users. We have a briefing paper on this item, which reflects the discussion that we had at our previous meeting.Is there anything in the paper about which you are not happy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 478245,
      "EditedText": "In the briefing paper or in the Executive's response to McIntosh?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 478248,
      "EditedText": "Does anybody have any objection to that, or any other comments on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 478249,
      "EditedText": "I am not objecting, but I have other comments. First, in addition to what is recommended here—it may happen anyway—individual members can have discussions with political colleagues and with councils in their own areas. Some of us are party spokesmen on local government; we will have discussions with party colleagues and can feed that into the system. We can get a lot of feedback from councils without much expense. Secondly, I am not suggesting that we career all over the continent, but we could get feedback from the continent by post or, even better, electronically. For example, almost all European countries have signed up to the granting of the power of general competence. They do not have revolutions every day and the world does not collapse. It will be interesting to see how it works for them. In many countries on the continent, local government is held in higher regard than it is in Britain. I suggest some consultation. I do not know whether the relevant embassies would give us information, or what the best mechanism is. We can learn from the continent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 478251,
      "EditedText": "We were discussing our holiday plans."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 478252,
      "EditedText": "Then could you discuss them outside?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 478253,
      "EditedText": "I fully support the briefing paper. However, although it sounds like a great idea, I am concerned that if three people with backgrounds in one type of authority visit a different type of authority—for example three people from urban authorities might visit Highland Council—they would not have enough background knowledge. Perhaps the group should be mixed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 478254,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. We can look at that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 478255,
      "EditedText": "Which members of the committee have been councillors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 478256,
      "EditedText": "Six have been councillors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 478257,
      "EditedText": "Colin, Gil and I were councillors. Bristow was, and Donald and Jamie, too. Keith still is. You were a councillor, too, convener. So that is eight."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 478259,
      "EditedText": "I am from a semi-rural area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 478261,
      "EditedText": "I think that Michael McMahon's point is appropriate. There is a problem of balance and we might not be able to resolve it absolutely. We should definitely avoid sending anyone to a council on which they have served or in an area that they represent. That would be very unhelpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 478265,
      "EditedText": "If three people are going to be doing that, I think that they should represent three different parties. We might want to have one or two former councillors, but there is no reason why we cannot mix and match."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 478266,
      "EditedText": "Och, behave yourself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 478268,
      "EditedText": "There is a programme further on in the briefing note. We should tie in the recommendations with the timetable because there may be something to be added next week. We will broaden out the recommendations following the discussion of the past few minutes. Are there any comments on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 478270,
      "EditedText": "Some members will be aware that the reporter system is used in many Parliaments. In that system, a member of a committee is given specific responsibility for an agreed task. Yesterday, the European Committee considered a report on the system and I can get copies of that report if members are interested.The member of the committee would be responsible for the task, but there would be some scope for staff assistance. However, that raises some resource issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 478276,
      "EditedText": "Right, there are two ways of doing this: we can either use a committee meeting to consider the questions that we would like to ask everyone, or we can ask the clerk to pull together questions to create a base from which we can work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 478278,
      "EditedText": "If the recommendations in this paper are agreed today, we will try to come up with a programme that suggests who will do what, based on interests that committee members can indicate to us at the end of the meeting. We will then return with recommendations, probably at the next meeting, which members can approve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 478281,
      "EditedText": "There is a league table, is there not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Craig Harper (Assistant Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 478285,
      "EditedText": "Morag Brown has suggested that we might want to liaise with COSLA, to determine which councils are the best ones to visit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 478287,
      "EditedText": "I was going to suggest that COSLA might have information concerning good practice.I hope that the list of official questions will not be exhaustive. If, whenever we go somewhere, there are eight questions that we are supposed to ask, I hope that we will not have to limit ourselves to those eight questions. The essence of the thing is that one answer should lead to probing a bit further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 478289,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to think about the matter logically. We must agree which of the areas in section 3.3 of the report we want to cover—that was Bristow's point. We must then move on to think about questions that will be phrased slightly differently to different groups. Eugene, is that how you are thinking of developing the process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 478290,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I do not think that we should do that today. I suggest that, once we have an idea of which subjects committee members are interested in, and of which geographical areas they might want to consider, we will try to pull together some kind of programme. If that is agreed, the rapporteurs who are appointed could then get together as a group and try to build consistency into the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 478291,
      "EditedText": "It is all about the messages that we send out. We should be careful not to go about with a tick box, saying \"Huh. You think you are good? Well, we are going to tell you something different.\" Nor should we prejudge which councils are good, bad or indifferent. There have been adverse reactions to the advisory panel in certain local authorities. We do not want to be seen to come in on the back of that panel, doing that kind of job. We should genuinely try to establish some kind of dialogue. It is about trying to get a representative impression of local government throughout the country. There are obvious places where we want to touch base, but I am anxious that we should not be prescriptive. We should not say, \"We are coming to meet you because you have good practice,\" or, \"We are coming to meet you because you have bad practice.\" We are trying to build a dialogue, and that is slightly different from what has been done by the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 478296,
      "EditedText": "If that. That is a lot—perhaps eight to 10. We are not going to listen only to councillors and officials; most important, we will listen to the people who receive the services. What is the point of fixing things if people do not get their services delivered? We must get more information from members about what they are interested in and then think about which authorities we should visit and what the timetable will be. The committee must remember that the ethical standards bill will go before Parliament towards the end of the year and that we will have to scrutinise it. At the moment, the bill is timetabled for three committee meetings, but as a result of discussion with the clerk yesterday, we will probably cut that to two. We have to scrutinise that bill before Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 478297,
      "EditedText": "I would like to suggest that we see a dozen councils. That would mean four each."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 478299,
      "EditedText": "That is an interesting point. During that long holiday when we did nothing I spent a week listening to the local government committee in the House of Commons. I can assure you that it is very interesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 478300,
      "EditedText": "I think mind-numbing is the phrase you are looking for. Frank was up in Orkney a couple of weeks ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478301",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 478301,
      "EditedText": "He was also in the Western Isles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 478306,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 478308,
      "EditedText": "In addition to Michael's criteria, we should remember that size is also important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 478312,
      "EditedText": "Is that your last question for the day, Sylvia? Does anyone wish to raise anything else in respect of this paper? If not, can we formally approve these recommendations, including the items that we have added?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 478315,
      "EditedText": "Do not go to sleep. The discussion on the briefing paper was not the right place to mention it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 478316,
      "EditedText": "I will speak to that when I sum up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 478317,
      "EditedText": "Will you? I have four headings now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12924,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12924,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 478158,
      "EditedText": "I will stop you there. If you have a question for the minister, can you put it to him when we go into the formal session? It is abusing the chair to bring that up now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12924,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12924,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 478159,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but I feel strongly about this. It will not be the last time that we have read about something in the press."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12924,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12924,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 478161,
      "EditedText": "I am getting confused about the remit of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12924,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12924,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 478162,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but I must stop you there. We are about to go into a formal session with the minister. If you do not think that it is an appropriate question to ask the minister, we can discuss it when the minister has left. Your question might be appropriate for the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Local Government (Mr Frank McAveety): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 478164,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for the invitation and for the opportunity to make a presentation to the Local Government Committee. I hope that in my introductory comments, I can reassure members about the intentions of the Executive on a series of issues relating to the post-McIntosh strategy on local government.The letter that you sent me asked that we specifically address proportional representation and the power of general competence. Wendy Alexander's statement on 2 July indicated a willingness to explore those ideas at the next stage of consultation.The other issue that was mentioned—finance—is not within my remit. Jack McConnell has talked to you in detail on the matter and I could not add any more. The other reason for my coming today is to deal with the response to the consultative paper that has just been issued. The reason for the delay in getting the paper out to you was that we were trying to clarify the language and content of certain areas. I have striven to ensure that it was with you as soon as possible. I hope that everyone received the document at least a day in advance—the alternative was that you would not receive it at all. It was posted on Monday night and the committee received it at the same time as other directly elected leaders.On 2 July, we said that we would set up two groups: the renewing local democracy group, which will be chaired by Richard Kerley, and the leadership advisory panel, which will be chaired by Alastair MacNish. The other issues that have to be addressed are the ones that the 2 July statement did not address fully. One of the key issues was the power of general competence. Many in local government have argued for a commitment on that. There are different views about emphasis, but many people in local government see it as of symbolic importance that they engage in activities at a local level. At present, they feel unable to do so. The granting of that power represents a transition from local government doing only those things that statute allows it to do, to its acting in the interest of the community as long as statute does not prohibit its actions. That is a subtle change, which should be addressed soon.The consultation paper opens up that debate. The paper identifies arguments for and against the introduction of a power of general competence. We had the good fortune to meet council leaders recently, when we asked them about the difference that a power of general competence would have made to them in the past. They will come back to us with positive ideas on that.The paper considers ways of introducing the power of general competence within certain parameters. It is in everybody's interest to have a clear idea of how to use the power. It is open for debate, and local government has an opportunity to put its case strongly to Parliament and to articulate why the power of general competence could make a difference at local level. It is important that that opportunity is there; it was not in any previous structural system. It is part of the new practices that we are trying to adopt in the Scottish Parliament. The other subject in the paper that I would like to stress is community planning, which was a key issue in our meeting with community leaders in Scotland. They thought that their role should be more proactive. On community planning, local government has an opportunity to argue a case that it has not had the opportunity to put before.I was informed that the committee wanted to talk about proportional representation and the renewing local democracy group. It is important to mention the composition of that group. Its remit is deeply political, and for that reason it has a predominantly political, cross-party membership. The key issue is the criteria by which Kerley will operate. One of the important points that came up in the contributions from local government and in the local government debate in Parliament was that the councillor-ward link is essential. The ministerial point of view is that we would like to exclude the closed list system from any consideration. That is inappropriate for local government elections. The Kerley group might consider that in other areas, but not for local government elections. The link between local government and local communities is an important element of local democracy.In terms of representation on the Kerley group, we have tried to get the balance that was indicated in the McIntosh report. The membership includes the president of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and representatives from mainstream political parties in Scotland. The secretariat is divided jointly between the Scottish Executive and COSLA. We have attempted to ensure that there is a broad sweep of opinion, reflecting different views on electoral reform.We also felt that it was important to look not just at proportional representation, but beyond electoral systems to support systems for elected members—training and development packages and so on. That was one of the issues that came up during the leadership advisory panel meeting. One of the questions is whether members see themselves as more part time than full time. The Kerley group must examine that issue sensitively, to ensure that the right balance is struck.I want to reassure the committee about the purpose and thinking behind the leadership advisory panel. It was set up in response to the clear recommendation of the McIntosh report that councils should engage in a process of self-renewal, validated by a panel of advisers. According to McIntosh: \"That panel should include strong representation from local government, both elected members and officers, and also a strong independent element\".The fact that the panel is chaired by an outgoing chief executive of a local authority, that there are many representatives from local authority organisations, including COSLA, and that the vast majority of the independent members of the panel have been involved in the public sector—in health boards or other agencies—makes it clear that there is a productive balance. I understand that COSLA has welcomed that balance. The panel also includes a representative from the senior trade union in local government—Anne Middleton from Unison.I have been visiting local authorities to give the Executive's views on the McIntosh report, in contrast to the perceived intentions of the Executive. We have deliberately not used the word cabinet, because it is neither in McIntosh nor in the language that we choose to use. We need to recognise that a small number of councils—McIntosh confirmed this—operate as an informal executive. McIntosh argues that that should be much more open than at present, to allow ordinary councillors who are not part of that inner grouping to exert greater influence over the council's work. The words that are used can sometimes be quite confusing. As we all know, words can be great foes of reality, and it strikes me that the use of the word cabinet will prompt some people to react negatively, immediately. However, if we say that informal executives are operating in most councils, anyone who has served in local government will recognise and accept that from their experience. The panel will have to consider how to make that more open, so that councillors feel more involved. I recommend that members read paragraph 98 of the McIntosh report, which explicitly argues why that is the case.The debate should be about how we empower individual councillors at the same time as allowing local authorities to take leadership roles in the communities, making quick, effective and transparent decisions. That should be explored through the leadership advisory panel and perhaps through the committee's consultation with local authorities.It is fair to say that when Wendy and I piloted that idea, some folk felt that there was a centralising model that was an attempt to bring the privatisation concept into local government. I want to assure the Parliament and the members of the committee that that is not the agenda of the leadership advisory panel. The purpose of the panel was to bring together the leaders of every council in Scotland in an informal setting for the first time, to share ideas and perspectives about the way forward for Scottish local government. I felt that the meeting and its outcome were positive. It has resulted in a commitment from ministers to meet council leaders twice a year and to examine the Executive's legislative powers and decision making. Issues such as the power of general competence, community planning, the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982, compulsory competitive tendering and contract compliance came up at the meeting. The vast majority of council leaders felt that it had a positive outcome. A number of elected council leaders have written to me—unsolicited, I hasten to add—to indicate that they thought that it was a positive meeting with ministers, that it was the first time in a considerable period that there had been an exchange of views and that mutual respect for each other's positions and autonomy had been shown. Clearly, we still need to move forward on a number of areas. I give a commitment that we will work in that forum, with local government leaders in particular. There are other issues that I did not specifically address in my introduction—I am happy to respond in the question-and-answer session—but I want to stress the covenant, which was discussed at the meeting. That key issue is a recommendation in McIntosh. I have a view on that as a minister, but the Local Government Committee will have stronger, more coherent and detailed views about how to develop the covenant between the Parliament and local government. The committee will probably prioritise that—among other things—over the coming period. There are many other areas of a more technical nature in the consultation paper, relating to the nature of elections—their timing and modernisation of the voting system, for example, access to polling stations and electronic voting. Eligibility for standing at elections is mentioned in the consultation paper. I stress—as I have when I have visited local councils—that this is the beginning of a programme of change for local government. It is not about a prescription or saying, \"Here is the solution,\" but it is about recognising that we can learn from each other. We will benefit in the long run from the fact that we have made a genuine effort to meet council leaders, that we have been round councils, had access to local authorities and seen examples of good practice. The issue of change is not a race; there is no set time scale. We are indicating that there is time for local authorities to engage in the process of self-renewal. With its lack of prescriptiveness, it is perhaps a more open and liberal programme than elsewhere in the UK. We are asking local authorities to engage in the process of renewal and to change from their perspective as much as from ours. It is a reasonable effort and beginning. There is a long way to go, but together we can make a difference. I am delighted to have had the chance to make a contribution today and am happy to take questions from members of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 478166,
      "EditedText": "I want to set the scene. There has been much unanimity and enthusiasm in the committee from the start and no question but that we all feel that there is a job to be done. My point is whether it is worth asking you a question. Has the agenda been set by the Executive? Is it a wee bit like some of the councils that you mentioned, with decisions made behind closed doors and handed down on tablets of stone? Some of the events of recent weeks—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 478172,
      "EditedText": "Many members want to speak, so I shall allow everybody to ask one question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 478176,
      "EditedText": "McIntosh did not kill off the idea of directly elected leaders. He said that there was some interest in the idea in parts of Scotland, but no unanimity. The argument should be about engaging with the wider community—about what sort of elected leadership reflects the best interests and structure of a community. Perhaps we should consult communities more effectively on which models are best. It is a matter for debate whether leaders should be chosen by small party groups or directly by the electorate. I am engaging with that debate.The consultation paper sets out the arguments for and against elected provosts and indicates that there are differences of emphasis and opinion. Those who argue strongly against elected provosts need to demonstrate that that reflects the aspirations and needs of communities. If we want local government and its structures to respond to what people want rather than to what we as a political elite want, it might be worth consulting on that.We have not argued explicitly for or against elected provosts; our aim is merely to shape the debate. We are not saying that we should adopt the model that exists elsewhere in the UK, but that there is a mechanism available. That mechanism would be triggered by the electorate rather than by the political leadership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 478178,
      "EditedText": "The purpose of this process is to influence the framework of any local government bill that might emerge in the near future. I genuinely cannot say exactly what the time scale for that will be, as I do not know how long it will take to complete the current legislative programme. We also need clarity on the priorities for next time round.However, the ministerial team is keen to move forward on a reform package. In his report, McIntosh indicated that a speedy response and movement forward on the forum were needed.It is difficult to say anything about proportional representation because we do not know the outcome of the Kerley committee, whose report will appear in the first quarter of next year. Everything depends on the recommendations that Kerley makes. Different models of reform of the voting system involve different time scales; we will explore that at the appropriate time.Wendy and I are keen to move forward with a local government bill. The ethics and standards bill is a response to some legitimate concerns about local government, but local government leaders want the new Parliament to produce something meaningful. The more quickly that happens, the better. Our intentions are honourable, but we do not yet know whether we can meet the time scale that Bristow proposes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 478181,
      "EditedText": "I have been on a number of escape committees in my time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 478184,
      "EditedText": "Mr McAveety is good at doing a snow job. He is excellent at it. That must be why he is a minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 478185,
      "EditedText": "The fundamental issue is, and Johann has mentioned this, that we are seeing things in the papers before the Executive tells us about them. I do not think that you addressed that in your previous answer, Mr McAveety. Perhaps you do not want to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 478186,
      "EditedText": "What I said is that the piece that appeared in The Scotsman was inaccurate. It claimed that the Executive would introduce a power of general competence. The document says that the power of general competence has been raised and debated by local government. What the Executive wants to do is to hear the arguments for and against that. Because of my experience as a member of a local authority I think it would be a welcome addition to the debate if it can be demonstrated that the power of general competence can make a difference to communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 478187,
      "EditedText": "I would like to get away from that issue but I cannot because in his opening address Mr McAveety gave the impression that he is in favour of that power of general competence. I am the lone voice on this committee who is not convinced of that. Mr McAveety and I are both former council leaders, so can he give me an example of useful action that a council could undertake that cannot be undertaken under the present legislation? I have racked my brain for an answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 478188,
      "EditedText": "One example that some local authorities have suggested is school contract buses. If a private sector contract fails to deliver, that service cannot be provided through the local transport executive. Could not there be some flexibility in councils' powers so that they could do something about that? At the moment there is an anomaly because there are different providers.There is a second argument that might be put forward by the rural authorities and that is on the need to intervene in areas where there are no direct providers. One or two members have raised the question of whether local councils should provide, for example, memorial stones, on which issue I have had to sign a number of letters. The opportunity to establish best value for money through the private sector does not, perhaps, exist in some parts of Scotland.Should not that be something that local authorities could intervene in? They could perhaps engage in a public-private partnership, or have cross-support for general providers, or whatever. Those are areas that could be looked at. In terms of the wider UK situation, within the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions for England and Wales, there is a recognition that there are a lot of ways in which the concept of community well-being could be introduced. The debate is out there; the opportunity is for local government to influence it.Those are two small examples. There may be many others. We need to move beyond the language of it and get to the meaning of it, and I understand your caution. McIntosh was alluding to a certain careful parameter for that. The submission from COSLA, also within that and the community planning debate, allows reassurance on the concerns that you have and gives flexibility for local councils if they want to influence things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 478192,
      "EditedText": "Hi, Frank—sorry, I mean minister. I am afraid that I did not receive a copy of the document until this morning, so I have not had time to read it, let alone absorb its contents so that I might ask questions on it. I note, with interest, that the second line of the foreword, which I managed to read, says that we lost no time in indicating that we welcomed the McIntosh recommendations. I think that that might possibly be in dispute.What role should lobbying have in local government? That is a serious point. Ex-councillors cannot be employed by their local authority up to a year after they have ceased to be councillors, yet any councillor can form a public relations company or lobbying firm. A certain former councillor—Ross Martin, who was the education convener of West Lothian Council—is currently lobbying councillors on the planning committee, his former colleagues on the education committee and members of the housing committee, in an attempt to get them to change the council's policy. One expects that he will have some influence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 478200,
      "EditedText": "My question follows on from Gil's question and relates to our concern about the relationship between the Scottish Executive—notably yourself, Frank—and this committee. We are very perturbed that we are not receiving information. There is general agreement within the committee that we want to move forward constructively and to identify our priorities, but we want to work together and to know what is happening. At the moment, we do not know what is happening. Neither Johann nor I had received the papers by this morning, so we find it very difficult to comment on them. How do you envisage this committee working together with you, as minister, to do the best for local government? Two groups have been set up, and there is also now a consultation paper. It would be useful to have a big picture—a flow chart showing to whom the different groups report, time scales, and what aspects are being considered. It would also be useful, as Gil said, to have a commitment to keeping this committee informed of what is happening. What is your commitment to involving this committee? How do you see us moving forward? Obviously, we have views on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 478201,
      "EditedText": "I was being very careful on that. If I had presented things for the committee to examine, I am sure that someone would have pummelled me into submission and claimed that it was extremely presumptuous of me, as a minister, to tell the committee what areas it should address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 478205,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a communist background—just a very socialist one.I want to go further than Sylvia did. The accuracy of The Scotsman is not the nub of the question. Every time we meet we find something that is important to this committee's work trailing before us. I am concerned about duplication. Donald will bear witness that I have said that a good few times, in other places as well as here.We are about to go out to the country. I would rather do that than sit here and talk to you. I like talking to real people, where it really counts. This committee was enthusiastic about our programme. However, if the Executive continues to set up its own committees, what is the point of our being here? Can you justify why we are here and tell the Executive that it has to stop what it is doing? It would be courteous at least to inform the convener, who can then inform members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12925,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 478206,
      "EditedText": "Gil, you have asked your question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 478212,
      "EditedText": "We have not had it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 478214,
      "EditedText": "The minister said in his initial spiel that he is not keen on the use of the word cabinet. In paragraph 9 of the Executive's response to the McIntosh report, the word executive is used. What is the difference between an executive and a cabinet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 478215,
      "EditedText": "As Neil McIntosh went round local councils, he increasingly recognised that informal groupings of councillors were operating in the form of a cabinet, although he carefully and rightly avoided that word, which has different connotations for different people. He said that that informal network gave the illusion that the committees were making decisions, whereas essentially seven or eight councillors were key portfolio holders and were making key decisions. He said that we should examine that—if we did not make those groupings more formal and open, the role of a councillor who was not a member of that inner circle would be diminished. Whether one calls such groups an executive or a cabinet depends on one's political perspective and the nuances of language. The reality, particularly in big authorities, is that things have sometimes operated in that way. An illusion has been created, sometimes by political leaderships—heaven forbid that they would ever engage in this process—that key decisions are being made by the full committee or council, when they are in fact being made in a more informal structure. We have the opportunity to engage with local government, and local councillors in particular, to enhance the role of scrutiny. Many elected members have been caught up in the committee attendance structure and have, so to speak, been drowned in memberships of committees, when what they really want is to engage in decision making and the effective scrutiny of policy. It would be helpful if part of this process was to examine that more carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 478220,
      "EditedText": "I am genuinely neutral on that issue. Folk have argued that, in some cases, whipping ensures that strong executive decisions are made and that decisions get through the tight structure of councils that are fairly politically divided. The problem is that whips have sometimes been used on issues that do not merit it, such as planning and other areas of committee decision making. Those areas should be examined individually. The issue of a local member's interests is complex. The corporate interests of a local authority, in terms of budget decisions or strategic policy decisions—on education, for example—can impact on a local member. The question is whether local members have the flexibility or opportunity at least to express—through local authority votes—their views on such issues, so that they can represent their communities as well as possible. Neil said that he thought that there was excessive use of party whipping, which is a question that parties need to address. An individual's position in a political party, the nature of the political structure and of the group and the political make-up of a council will all determine whether that individual thinks that the use of whips is an effective model. My view is that persuasion and winning the larger argument are better than coercion. We should encourage that, but it will need to come through debate. Parties, as much as individual councillors, will need to engage in that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 478224,
      "EditedText": "It was important to include that idea in the document. In a sense, it is one of the more \"boring\" issues. Over the long term, however, it is important because it is about involving young people in the civic process to make them more aware of decision making in their communities. In the social inclusion debate, we wanted to stress the point about reaching out to our most disadvantaged young people. Voting patterns show that the problems with young people's participation in the political process are more acute in areas of greater disadvantage.I have no details on what progress has been made. I would be happy to work with the committee on that. It is one of the areas in which schools can play an important role. The idea is good, but we have to think about how it impacts on the other debates in education. Three local authorities that I visited identified working with young people as an area in which they had done innovative work. In East Lothian, we had a successful visit to an internet cafe where we met young folk. The cafe was supported by the local authority and access to the internet was free. We discussed the future of local government with the Midlothian Council youth panel. We should encourage that kind of visit across Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 478225,
      "EditedText": "In a letter to the committee, Neil McIntosh said:\"If you can, try to have a little time in the nearest secondary school with some of the students to obtain their perspective.\"He gives the same advice as you, Frank."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 478238,
      "EditedText": "Convener, there was genuine concern. I thought that we would go through the briefing paper systematically, and I asked two questions that arose from it. However, we were then presented with the Executive's response to McIntosh, which Keith and I received only this morning. I understand that Sylvia and Johann did not get it at all. That leaves us asking roundabout questions about documents that we have not had a chance to see. If we are going to discuss a document, we need a few days to consider it and absorb what it says. That would enable us to ask questions that are relevant to the minister and to us.Furthermore, we did not know until we arrived at the meeting how long the minister would be with us, because that was not specified on the agenda. I would not have prepared so many questions if I had known how long he was going to be here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 478239,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that. You will accept that we let Frank know that we are not happy about that.You are absolutely right. I did not get the paper until this morning, but I had asked that it be sent to your homes on Saturday at the latest because Monday was a holiday in Glasgow and there was no mail.To give Frank his due, he came back to me three times to say that it was other departments that were holding up delivery. None of us is happy about the situation; it was not the right way to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 478241,
      "EditedText": "That should destroy your political career."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 478246,
      "EditedText": "In the briefing paper on ways of consulting councils and council service users."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 478258,
      "EditedText": "How many of us have rural council experience? Just Jamie, I think, so he would have to visit all the rural councils."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 478264,
      "EditedText": "Do we have some agreement about that? We will consider sending the SNP members everywhere, we will mix members with urban and rural experience and we will not go to a council either that we served on or that is in an area that we represent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 478267,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to say that it does not have to be the same three people every time. It does not have to be a set group visiting each authority. For example, Johann, Donald and I could visit one council and Keith, Sylvia and I could visit another.What is the time scale for starting and completing those visits?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 478269,
      "EditedText": "Just for my own clarification, the briefing says that the reporter system should be adopted. Does that mean one of the three members acting as a scribe, or a member of staff?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 478272,
      "EditedText": "I have a point that was made in Neil McIntosh's report, and which Eugene alluded to in his paper, about the way in which we decide a framework of questions so that there is consistency between each of the groups. Will we do that today or at a subsequent meeting? Obviously, that framework will be based largely on the McIntosh report, but there might be a series of key questions that we want to ask all the bodies that we visit to ensure a degree of comparability between the reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 478273,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that the questions that we will want to ask of rural authorities will be different from those that we will want to ask of urban ones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 478274,
      "EditedText": "I suppose that builds on paragraph 3.3 of the briefing paper, which deals with the subjects that we will consider. Could we add the question of civic education? That came up this morning and I think that it is an important subject to consider, particularly as local authorities may be asked to set targets for its inclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 478275,
      "EditedText": "That is important. We have to ask councillors and voluntary groups different questions, but we must operate within a reasonably tight framework otherwise there will be no correlation between reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 478277,
      "EditedText": "The problem is the time frame within which we will operate. Can officials say how many visits we might make, and what kinds of locations we might want to visit? It would be worth while having a briefing paper on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 478279,
      "EditedText": "We will not visit all the councils anyway. Eugene can pick out councils that are representative of their type: totally urban, semi-urban, totally rural, and so on. There will be a core of questions that we will ask them all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 478280,
      "EditedText": "There is also the aspect of areas of good practice in councils. How are we going to get at that? How will we find out which councils are known to show good practice in certain areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 478282,
      "EditedText": "Did the electorate not give their judgment on that league table at this year's election?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 478284,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Parliament information centre has information on where models of good practice have been developed. We hope to draw on that and other knowledge to find specific examples of good practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 478293,
      "EditedText": "Convener, there are only 32 local authorities in Scotland. How many do you suggest we visit? Will we see 10 or 11 each?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 478302,
      "EditedText": "It might be worth looking at the House of Commons local government committee report—its recommendations are interesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 478305,
      "EditedText": "If we work the visits out on that basis, we would be covering a fair spread."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 478307,
      "EditedText": "Also, if something crops up during the process that we think we really ought to look at, it can be included. At the moment, it is important to establish a number."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 478314,
      "EditedText": "Here we go again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12924,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ContributionID": 478156,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:01"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12924,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 478160,
      "EditedText": "The minister is here; if you feel strongly, I am sure that if you ask him a question, he will answer it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 478167,
      "EditedText": "Gil, please ask your question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
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      "ID": 12925,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 478169,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure whether that was a question or a statement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478170",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 478170,
      "EditedText": "My question is this. If decisions are made behind closed doors, is there any point in this committee ever meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 478173,
      "EditedText": "It is unfortunate that the document was in the public domain before we got it. We are therefore unable to ask the minister about the substance of the Executive's response. I hope that the Executive recognises the positive role of the Local Government Committee in promoting and supporting local government.Why did the power of general competence have to be explored further? It could not have been simply because it is a contentious issue, as proportional representation is also an important issue—at least for one member of the committee—and the Executive has not chosen to explore that any further. Rather, it has set up a mechanism whereby some form of PR can be developed. Can the minister identify the areas of unease surrounding a power of general competence that prompted the Executive to examine the matter further?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 478174,
      "EditedText": "McIntosh himself is fairly cautious about the power of general competence. He was attracted to the philosophy of the principle, but recognised that there are areas of uncertainty. The paper develops several arguments further, and I note Johann's concerns about not having access to the paper before being asked to raise points on the subject. The first argument against a power of general competence is that it could lead to a greater cost burden on local taxpayers. There needs to be balance; more powers mean that more resources have to be found.The second argument concerns whether local authorities would take over areas of operation that are the domain of other public bodies. Again, there must be a clear definition of the circumstances in which local government can take up a power of general competence if other public bodies are already offering those services. The third question is about whether existing legislation is a genuine bar to local authorities taking over some areas of service provision. Some authorities have taken over areas of service provision that have not been excluded by existing local government legislation. Perhaps council leaders should try some of the things that are allowed under the existing laws instead of just saying that they want a power of general competence. The fourth issue concerns legal advice as to whether an area of operation is in vires. The most obvious example is the calculated risk that Strathclyde Regional Council took in the water debate. It had to go through endless consultation with lawyers—the worst kind of folk to ask for a clear-cut decision—and that cost a fair amount of money. The eventual political response was positive and indicated the view of people in Strathclyde on the water issue, but the matter of legal advice needs further explanation. We need to explore the issue further. There are many arguments in favour of general competence, but it is incumbent on those who support it for local government to present powerful arguments to shape the debate that the committee will have and that will influence any legislation that comes before the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 478177,
      "EditedText": "I know that the consultation process is due to be completed at the end of November. Can I take it from that that it is the Executive's intention to move towards producing a local government bill based on McIntosh in the next legislative year—that is,  the year starting in September 2000? If so, what time scale is the Executive considering for implementation of the bill?Many people are interested in electoral reform. I do not want you to prejudge which electoral system will be decided on, but could you say what time scale would be required to implement any change to the electoral system proposed in the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 478179,
      "EditedText": "Frank, you know that I come from local government, where I spent a great deal of time sitting on committees. Sometimes I brought ideas to committees that were hijacked by the party in power and put forward as their own. I can safely say that we have been fairly consensual in this committee, but there are obviously areas of difficulty from time to time, which presumably originate from our different political backgrounds. Underlying that is the fact that we have spent much time discussing some of the issues.Mr McAveety has always been in favour of a power of general competence, so I will not talk of his conversion. However, I am deeply concerned that it does not help the committee to see an announcement in The Scotsman a day or two before we are to see the minister and before the document comes out. That does not help the committee's relationship with Mr McAveety. I would like to him to respond to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 478183,
      "EditedText": "This might be an abuse of the chair, but I am not absolutely certain that you have answered the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 478189,
      "EditedText": "Do we have your assurance that the debate is still open, and that The Scotsman's article was incorrect?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 478190,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 478193,
      "EditedText": "Can we have a question, Kenny, please?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 478196,
      "EditedText": "Would you not accept, minister, that there is an anomaly between—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12925,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 478203,
      "EditedText": "I accept that.We had to clear the paper with a series of ministers, because it impacts on the finance debate, which Jack had to deal with. That resulted in the lateness in delivery, which was not intended. As I said to Trish last week, I was anxious that members should have the paper before the meeting. My intentions were good, but it was difficult to get the paper to people because of the holiday weekend in certain parts of the country. I want to have information exchange with the committee.I have told the people who chair the two panels that were set up that they should be accessible to the convener of the Local Government Committee. It is clear in the outline that we have given that, if it wishes, the committee should have access to Alastair MacNish and Richard Kerley, and should receive, for example, reports of work in progress,I have also tried to ensure that the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities is involved, as its role in the debate is as legitimate as that of this committee and the Parliament. I have made efforts to consult COSLA about the membership of panels, and have ensured that it is represented on those panels. I am also going round councils to give them a flavour of the big picture. I understand your concern that you are getting only a snapshot today. In a sense, I am in your hands. If you would like us to have a productive relationship in certain areas, I, too, would like that. Unless we work together on local government, we will not progress.Equally, there are matters on which ministers will have to make the calls—that is the nature of Executive decision making sometimes. I hope that that process is respected—it happens also in local government. I welcome your views on how we can work together more effectively. If you feel that it will be important for me to come to the committee again, I will be happy to do so. I am open about that, and have said it to Trish before. I hope Sylvia is reassured about the process in which I want to engage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 478208,
      "EditedText": "I know. We get the gist of what you are saying. We should give Frank a chance to answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 478219,
      "EditedText": "We have not really touched on the use of the party whip in council business, although it relates to what Frank was talking about. I am sure that most people accept the absolute right of political parties to use a whipping system when they are pursuing their election manifesto commitments. What changes do you envisage taking place that might relax the use of the whip and make the system more transparent, when increasingly many decisions taken in councils are not necessarily related to election manifesto commitments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12925,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 478213,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not think that you have, but you will. We asked Kerley to examine a complex issue and everybody knows that there are no simple answers. It must be seen as an overall package. In considering changes to electoral systems, we must examine the issue of the support that elected members require because there may be work load implications. Richard Kerley has already told council leaders that he recognises those tensions, and that will be reflected in his response. Once Richard has reported, the Parliament has the authority to determine what happens next.The leadership advisory panel is much more subtle. I have encouraged Alastair MacNish to see his role as moving forward the agenda for modernisation and reform, and many local authorities are already moving in that direction. Wendy Alexander sent a letter to local authorities that indicated the broad parameters that should be considered in restructuring, and the report will identify those things. At the leaders' meeting, some folk claimed that there is a set agenda saying that they must do X, Y and Z, and that only a so-called cabinet can deliver changes in local government. I have taken great pains to tell different types of councils that there is not a single answer. One answer may be appropriate to some authorities but not to others.I do not think that anyone would disagree with what Wendy said about the role of the panel. She said that there should be an open debate on policy proposals, scrutiny of the leadership, no unnecessary use of the party whip, and that membership of the council should be available to a wider range of people. Moreover, there should be effective rules for all members of councils, decentralisation models that involve the wider community, and a significant balance between an effective executive and robust scrutiny of its activities.Nobody who has any experience of local government would say that we should not buy into those ideas. Some people in local government still object to them, but we must challenge the attitude of those who say, \"Just give us the money and we'll do what we want with it.\" We have an obligation as ministers and as members of the Scottish Parliament to ask whether things can be done more effectively. Alastair's role will be to engage in that process; he sees himself as an encourager. If it becomes clear that some authorities have not dealt with the issues, we will need to consider that at the time. I am more positive about the situation. Having visited many councils, I believe that they are genuinely engaged in the process of improvement and change and the vast majority of them see that as the way forward.If councils that were reformed in 1995 because of reorganisation can prove that their model is working effectively, they have nothing to fear. Other authorities that have remodelled themselves may need to tweak some aspects of their operation, and I can think of one or two that could engage in that process more effectively. That is a process that local authorities will engage in with Alastair and reports about how that process goes will come back to the Parliament. The Local Government Committee also has a role to play in examining how that process develops, and members may want to take the opportunity to speak to Alastair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 478217,
      "EditedText": "That is your interpretation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 478222,
      "EditedText": "I do not recognise that caricature—that may be your experience of a previous Government that was not as open and transparent as the one of which I am a member. Our job is to be a legislative body; we are here to encourage people, through exhortation and ideas about policy development and legislation. Local authorities will be responsible for how they deliver services. I do not see the Parliament becoming a glorified local authority, although we need to guard against that happening, as we could end up taking a case load from the local authority level into the Scottish Parliament, which would be inappropriate. The issue is how we create the framework for local government to renew itself. We are engaging in that process much more productively than the previous Government did. COSLA and local government representatives are more involved in the working groups and consultation than they were before. The leadership forum, which was met with scepticism at first, has resulted in a positive outcome. A paper in our consultation document asks some of the questions that local government representatives raised. A much more mutual relationship has replaced the daggers-drawn arguments that took place for too long. That is not to imply that MSPs and ministers cannot demand high standards from local government—that is our legitimate role. It is also legitimate for local government to expect the Parliament to understand its needs and aspirations. There are other opportunities, such as the covenant, to prevent an attitude of mutual distrust from developing again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 478223,
      "EditedText": "In the document, the section on civic education says that local authorities have been asked to develop targets to demonstrate local progress. Have you picked up anything from councils about how that is developing? What are your views on the matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 478226,
      "EditedText": "We have been talking about the communication links between this committee and the Parliament. However, it has become apparent that the communication links between local government and the Parliament are not as they should be.When I was at a conference a couple of weeks ago, it was obvious, from the views of the representatives, that there were a lot of misconceptions about the Parliament's role in relation to local government. How can we communicate satisfactorily with elected representatives of local authorities other than the leadership?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 478228,
      "EditedText": "The forthcoming legislation on ethical standards in local government has been extended to cover other public bodies. Are you considering extending surcharging to other public bodies or removing it from local government?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1996E124P211C478229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAveety, Mr Frank",
      "ID": 1996,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Shettleston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAveety: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 478229,
      "EditedText": "I have not considered that, so I cannot give a definite answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 478233,
      "EditedText": "Now that we are all friends again, can we return—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12925,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 478237,
      "EditedText": "Take your hands off me—do not minute that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12925,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 478240,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry that I raised the matter of the remit of the committee early in the meeting. I will just let that matter drop. Having heard what you said at the end of the meeting, I am encouraged by the attitude that you are taking. You speak for us all on this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12925,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 478242,
      "EditedText": "Far from it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12925,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12925,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 478243,
      "EditedText": "What political career?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 478247,
      "EditedText": "The first point that I wish to make is on the section on targets for the consultation programme and on the scope of visits to groups that are external to councils. We talked about extending consideration of community councils to include area forums, civic assemblies and so on. You have perhaps encompassed such things.After our discussion this morning, there may be things to be added. Do members think that a mapping exercise would be useful? We could get a diagrammatic representation of the areas that the Scottish Executive is considering and, as Johann asked, to whom the groups that have been set up will report—to Parliament or whatever. I understood from previous papers that the Kerley group, for example, would report directly to ministers, but Frank said that it would report to Parliament. Does he mean that the report will go to ministers and then to Parliament? We need to clarify issues such as where the report goes and how it will be taken forward. In the mapping exercise, can we examine McIntosh's main recommendations, where the Executive fits into those and which are the priority areas. I do not know whether I am looking at this as a scientist, but it is about getting the bigger picture and finding a way of bringing all those threads together. We have already identified what we see as priorities—I am sure that there will be more. I do not know if that is possible; maybe Eugene is in a better position to do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 478250,
      "EditedText": "It is a good idea to compare that with what goes on here. Morag Brown from the Scottish Parliament information centre might be interested in putting something together for the committee—Interruption. Could you stop talking at the other end of the room, please?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478260",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 478260,
      "EditedText": "But you were not a councillor."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 478262,
      "EditedText": "Colin would resign from Parliament before he would go back to Renfrewshire."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 478263,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I think we should send him there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ID": 12926,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 478271,
      "EditedText": "We will get that report to members; it will be helpful. The reporter system works well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 478283,
      "EditedText": "The league table is based on the delivery of services, but it is a model that the officials could consider. We do not need to accept it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 478286,
      "EditedText": "Some of the areas that we want to explore are mentioned in section 3.3 of Eugene's report, but we will probably want to broaden our investigations considerably. Electoral reform is not included in section 3.3 of the report, partly because that would duplicate the work of the Kerley group, but it would be a huge missed opportunity if the Local Government Committee visited local authorities and did not discuss that issue. We need to broaden our investigations, even if we might be seen to be straying into some areas that the various commissions and groups are examining. I do not want us to do that extensively, but we should explore some of those issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 478288,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I accept that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 478292,
      "EditedText": "Presumably we will send people a list of the subjects that we want to discuss, but our basic function is to listen and learn, not to judge. We must have a dialogue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 478294,
      "EditedText": "Certainly not 32—we must be selective. I would want as much variety as possible in terms of size and geographical area. Perhaps you could tell Eugene Windsor what kinds of things you are interested in, and that could guide our programme. There are some that we obviously must visit. It goes without saying that someone—not you, Kenny, or me—would have to go to Glasgow and see what is going on there. We could begin with those that it is clear we must visit—Inverness would be another. The inquiry must not be narrow, but it must not be too wide either. Perhaps we should visit about 10?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 478295,
      "EditedText": "A dozen maybe?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 478298,
      "EditedText": "The kind of authority that we visit has a bearing on this. I was born and brought up on the islands—being in an urban situation seems a bit odd—and there are peculiar situations in island authorities. I suggest that we go to at least one island authority—although I should not go. The problems of island authorities are quite different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7848588+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
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      "ID": 12926,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 478303,
      "EditedText": "My point is similar to Kenny's. The Accounts Commission broke the local authorities down into four different kinds: rural, urban, mixed and island. If we do two of each, that will give us eight, and then Edinburgh and Glasgow—which we must look at because of their particular difficulties—will take us up to 10."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 478304,
      "EditedText": "We should look at Highland, because it is the biggest. That makes 11."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 478309,
      "EditedText": "There is no answer to that. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 478310,
      "EditedText": "Colin will burst into tears. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478311",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 478311,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry about that. The paper also mentions political control, which should be added to our list of criteria."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 478313,
      "EditedText": "I think that the point that I raised earlier about mapping was raised in the wrong context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 478318,
      "EditedText": "Four headings and a funeral."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478319",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 478319,
      "EditedText": "We move now to the programme of committee dates. Ah, members do not have that piece of paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation",
      "HeadingID": 12926,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 183.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 478320,
      "EditedText": "Does the press have it? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.800486+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 478321,
      "EditedText": "No, no, the press does not have it. I will formally close this part of the meeting to allow the official report to go away and then we can discuss the diary."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C478322",
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      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2698
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      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:57."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 155310,
      "EditedText": "I will take as an example the work that we do in assisting new business formation in this regard. It is a good example of the way in which the network is now working. The network is eight years old, and how it operates has changed significantly over that time.Last year, the Chancellor of the Exchequer established challenging targets for the establishment and formation of new business in Scotland. Scottish Enterprise, which is a key player in helping small businesses establish themselves, decided to undertake a review to determine how better we could service that marketplace.I will briefly outline the process that we used, which will perhaps answer some of your questions, convener. Having identified that we needed to improve our performance, we established a small group of six practitioners from across the local enterprise companies. I chaired that group, and should say that I am a former LEC chief executive. I was chief executive of Grampian Enterprise for three years, before taking up my current post a year ago.We undertook an in-depth review of our performance and the methodologies that we deployed to help companies establish themselves. We quickly identified that three of our 13 companies were performing significantly better than the others. The group determined that that had to be our benchmark for performance for the whole network. The performance figures that we had identified were made available to the network and the respective boards around Scotland. We determined that those would become the performance targets for all the LECs, in terms of business starts per thousand head of population. We set about encouraging LECs to look at each other to share best practice.One of the surprises was the extent to which there was variety in the LECs that came out top of that poll. One of them was Scottish Borders Enterprise, a small LEC in an area with industrial and commercial difficulties at the moment. Another was Lothian and Edinburgh Enterprise Ltd, and the other was Forth Valley Enterprise. We had three radically different LECs: one comprising one of the largest urban areas in Scotland; another comprising a mixed and substantially rural economy; and another one exclusively rural, which faced some industrial difficulties, especially with the demise of the textile industry.We felt that it was useful to get the LECs to talk to each other. It would have been singularly inappropriate to task Dumfries and Galloway Enterprise with finding out how new business formation was undertaken in the city of Edinburgh, as the populations and the mechanisms available for delivery are so different. However, it has been engaging in a useful dialogue with its colleagues in the Borders. We are in the middle of that process. From our interim results, we are confident that the improvement in performance that we get this year will get all—I say all with a degree of caution as we are mid-year—of the performance levels up towards our top quartile figure.That is indicative of the way that we are approaching particular issues. Our primary concept is that we encourage local variance, because we serve so many diverse communities. What we seek to impose—if that is the right word; perhaps agree to adopt is a phrase that I would be more comfortable with—are matters related to quality and performance standards, not necessarily the methodologies adopted. Those must be appropriate to the communities that the LEC is serving.To summarise the policy of Scottish Enterprise, it is to address at the national level issues of consistency, quality and performance targets and to encourage LECs to develop local initiatives that suit their local communities and share those with equivalent communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, Alan. I should have said at the outset that Alan moved house yesterday. He has been very fluent despite that ordeal.Because of the nature of the inquiry, I am required to invite members to make any appropriate declarations of interest at this stage. I ask Margo to declare hers."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155308",
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      "ID": 821
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 155308,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I am proud to be married to Jim Sillars, who is a member of the Scottish Enterprise board."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    "Time": {
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      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
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      "EditedText": "To take that example of new business starts, what degree of difference in performance existed between the lowest quartile and the top quartile? You indicated that the focus on new business starts was as a result of business formation targets created by the chancellor. In other policy areas, is Scottish Enterprise actively considering setting ambitious business targets, or is there a gentle, rather than a more ambitious, pattern of development?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 155313,
      "EditedText": "I have a quick question, Alan, that follows on from what John was saying about business starts and the way in which they are benchmarked. I am pleased, proud and happy that Lothian and Edinburgh Enterprise Ltd is among the three top performers. However, is there a uniform pattern of business starts throughout the LEEL area? In all the presentations that we have had, and in much of our discussion, comment has been made on the difference between different types of communities. I do not like to use jargon, but the folk who have not got enough, the excluded ones, do not start as many businesses as those who have a bit more. That is why the Lothian region is interesting—there is a complete demography to judge from. Is there a uniform standard of business start successes in the local enterprise company areas?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 155315,
      "EditedText": "My question is along the same lines as the convener's comments. Am I correct in thinking that you said that there was a 30 to 40 per cent variance in performance in relation to targets for new business starts per head of population, and that the best performers were in the east, south and north of Scotland, but not in the west?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155320",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
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      "EditedText": "The short answer is that we believe there will continue to be a multiplicity of providers. There is no rational alternative. We must ensure that we manage—and drive out—the overlap between the providers. For a variety of reasons, the most appropriate provider for certain types of business in an area may be the chamber of commerce, which could have more knowledge about aspects of the business. Similarly, in areas where social inclusion is a big problem, the local authority might be a better vehicle, because of its social work activities and social inclusion remit.We cannot move to a single, simplistic model. The existing multiplicity should, in many ways, be encouraged. In front of me is a paper that we developed recently to find out the key issues. Those issues are quality standards—irrespective of who is providing the service, the individuals involved shall meet a certain performance standard and the organisations shall meet a certain minimum quality standard. We must also have some consistency in the financial support that we provide; that last point is probably more for Scottish Enterprise.The other key—and this is the approach that Scottish Enterprise will adopt—is to use what we call the account manager system. In other words, we will assign people to companies or groups of companies, to maintain continuity of service with those companies for as long as we can and to develop a relationship with them. That means that, if we do not hear from the companies for six months, we will be able to make contact and offer them a health check.Local authorities, for example, may choose to proceed slightly differently, but we believe that one key is to have an overarching set of quality standards. We also believe that appropriate consultation in the area of small-business formation is needed. There are 300,000 self-employed people and small businesses in Scotland, and it is difficult for any of the providers to be fully engaged and understand the needs of that diverse community. We think that improvement is needed in how that engagement takes place.Our main thrusts are in the areas of quality, consistency and consultation. Under those umbrellas we see not duplication, but a multiplicity of delivery being allowed to thrive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155322",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
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      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is inconsistent with anything that I have said to say that there is room for rationalisation. That does not mean getting rid of multiplicity entirely. The question is, how much is enough?I will take the example of Fife, where the local enterprise company is currently engaged in a mapping exercise with its local council. I should note at this point that that exercise is easier in Fife than in many other parts of Scotland, because there is a one-on-one relationship between the local authority and the local enterprise company. They are mapping out all their support activities, particularly in the area of small-business support. The purpose is to identify where there is overlap and, if so, which organisation is best placed to deliver support. Once that has been done, it is proposed that one party should cede the activity to the other.That process has started in other parts of Scotland—Fife is probably the most current example, as the exercise is continuing there as we speak. That is the rationalisation to which I referred, which removes duplication but will not, we hope, eliminate healthy diversity—we would still seek to encourage that. At issue is whether there is inappropriate duplication, which we certainly want to prevent."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155324",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 155324,
      "EditedText": "Convener, you are absolutely right. At present, every local enterprise company—without exception—has a local strategy that it has developed with its partners. Frequently, the partners are two, three or even four local authorities. Over the past couple of years, getting a joint strategy has in many instances been a long and difficult process. However, now that we have joint strategies, we believe that we are well placed to move forward to the sort of rationalisation that I have described in Fife. Fife is a good example because rationalisation is easier to achieve there.The situation is made more difficult by the fact that there may be competition between, for example, a rural area and its adjacent urban area. Somehow or other, the local enterprise company with responsibility for that combined area must deal with that issue. I suspect that there will be a lot of detailed debate in future months about how that is to be dealt with."
    },
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 155326,
      "EditedText": "I shall start with the easiest question, which relates to the map. I am not aware of any plan—certainly not in the executive of Scottish Enterprise—to redraw the local enterprise company boundaries. Those boundaries have been in place for eight years, and we will plan on the basis that they will remain until we are directed otherwise.Around 5,000 small businesses per annum start up with direct assistance from local enterprise companies. We have fairly strict rules on attribution. It is not the case that, when a new McDonald's opens up in Dunfermline High Street, the local enterprise company can claim a new business start-up. There are specific rules on attribution, which relate to the number of business advice assists that were given. We have not carried out any detailed analysis into the working time directive. We are aware that that directive is an issue and that others are working in that field. Part of the consultation process that I mentioned will bring together the various groups in Scotland that are interested in that issue, which will enable information on it to be shared more easily."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 155334,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I will ask the clerk to write to you about the mapping exercise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 155335,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in consultancies, in particular public relations consultancies. Although I appreciate that contracts are made public on a six-month rolling programme, I am interested in the tendering for such contracts. You can work out why, given that I have read in the papers this week about Beattie Media's public sector contracts. I would like an assurance that every PR contract for local enterprise companies goes out to competitive tendering. Can you give me such an assurance?Further to that, were all of the current PR contracts for LEEL awarded after competitive tendering, or is there an employee of Beattie Media working with LEEL who did not have to go through such a process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155338",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 155338,
      "EditedText": "Each local enterprise company has a threshold—it is determined by company audit committees and is slightly different for each company—below which single-source contracts can be awarded. Such contracts tend not to be numerous or valuable. They are usually designed for the provision of services for two or three days by someone with specific expertise. All contracts above the threshold values are competitively tendered in accordance with practices that are audited regularly by local enterprise audit companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 155343,
      "EditedText": "Could you write us a letter to confirm what the procedure is for changing the map? That would help the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 155345,
      "EditedText": "Budget allocations are determined exclusively by the board of Scottish Enterprise. Proposals are made by each of the operating units. There are 13 LECs and an organisation called Scottish Enterprise Operations which does the Locate in Scotland and Scottish Trade International work. That is all in that other spend. Every year, each of the 13 LECs and the national organisation submit forward business plans for consideration by the Scottish Enterprise board, which deliberates on the balance between regions and the balance between spend at the national level—in support of organisations such as Locate in Scotland and Scottish Trade International and various other centrally funded activities—and by individual LECs. That is entirely at the call of the Scottish Enterprise board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155347",
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      "ID": 821
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 155347,
      "EditedText": "The way in which Scottish Enterprise is now governed—and I will draw the distinction in terms of now as opposed to the way it was before—is one in which LECs are engaged in almost all of the decision-making processes although not to the extent of self-determining what they will get, which is ratified by the board. Sir Ian Wood, chairman of Scottish Enterprise, meets the chairmen of all the LECs immediately before board meetings. He discusses with them the issues of the day, which include national expenditure—what it is going on and how the national programmes are performing. The chairmen of LECs have complete insight into the expenditure at the national level. There is complete transparency on that, and free and vigorous debate on whether national programmes represent value for money, are appropriate and relate to business support at a local level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 155349,
      "EditedText": "I will start with the easier question, which is the second one. Yes, every business start-up pack that is issued is followed up. We have been doing this exercise for two years, and the percentages that we quote seem to be holding solid. That is indicative of the kind of people who come along. There are other people who may visit two or three personal enterprise shows and then make a decision to start a business in two or three years' time.We are also aware of many others, and we get statistics on new business start-ups from the banks every quarter. There can be no doubt that some businesses—we cannot say exactly how many—will simply go away with enough information to start and then seek professional advice. We must not lose sight of the fact that we have a whole business community besides the banks providing business start-up support.We are confident that the personal enterprise show—the key aim of which is to stimulate interest and give access to opportunity and information—serves a very useful purpose. It would be nice if we could get more attribution directly to local enterprise companies, but we believe that, over the longer term, those figures will work through the system. In fact, Sue Baldwin advises me that that detailed evaluation is being undertaken as we speak.I have had the privilege of attending several Scottish Enterprise board meetings and I have heard no more impassioned debate than on the subject of need versus opportunity. The network endeavours to serve as both sides of the equation. When local enterprise companies submit their bids, they do so under a number of annual operating plans that are submitted for consideration at the beginning of the funding round. We identify activities against our main strategic objectives, and it is clear which activities require significant spending in the areas of inclusion. Others, however, may have less pressing inclusion agendas but may have significant opportunities. One need look only at the conurbation of electronics and semiconductor companies that is growing up around Project Alba to see that there are significant opportunities to take a long-term stake in Scotland's future economy by developing and taking advantage of investment.The need-versus-opportunity debate cannot be resolved on a formulaic basis; we are dealing with issues that are too complex for that. At a local level, local enterprise company boards debate and discuss the balance between need and opportunity in their areas when they make their submissions. At a national level, the Scottish Enterprise board includes passionate advocates for both schools of thought, with representatives of economic development agencies that want to invest only in opportunity and others who believe that the primary investment should service need. That debate is passionate and Sue is responsible for acting as executive, trying to reconcile and resolve the differences between the two sides so that the board can sign off decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155350",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 155350,
      "EditedText": "I know that target setting is important, particularly for small businesses, but I am interested in the soft indicators that underlie target setting, mainly in vocational education and training. I am interested in how targets and indicators relate to the other main players in the area. I am from Fife, so I am well aware of the target setting and mapping that has been going on. People have been looking at other individuals' and other organisations' development plans, and that is crucial. The soft indicators underneath are very important, especially in terms of qualifications. Alan Sim mentioned bureaucracy, but I want to use the word rigidity. Sometimes, the way in which qualifications are offered to people does not help our efforts to create a healthy economy. I have concerns about the way in which local enterprise companies contribute to the social inclusion agenda. A lot of good work is being in done but, in Fife at least, some £8 million of the budget is allocated to vocational education and training. I would like to know what contribution that makes. How do we ensure that what we are delivering is what people need? Are we delivering it to the people who need it most? The rigidity of SVQs being all that is available to 16 to 18-year-olds flies in the face of everything else that we are trying to do with the new deal and with people who come into full-time vocational education and training. However, I am mindful that we are considering only non-advanced education.I want to try to prove my point about rigidity and bureaucracy by giving just one example. A 16 to 18-year-old skillseeker, can study only for an SVQ. If they need something different and their tutor, lecturer or personal adviser knows that, it makes no difference—an SVQ is all that will be funded by the Scottish Enterprise network. I am very concerned about that, and so are many of my colleagues. Do not get me wrong; there has been integration of education and training. I have made representations to the enterprise company at a local level, but I am told that unless—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 155352,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. In my area, there have been pilot schemes to integrate education and training, but it is worrying that a large amount of money that is going into enterprise companies to fund vocational education and training is being used to deliver targets, not to deliver what people need. What, if anything, are the enterprise companies going to do to change that? I am sorry that was such a long question, but this is a complex issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 155353,
      "EditedText": "It was a long question with a sharp point."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 155357,
      "EditedText": "It would be much appreciated if we could have a note on the discussions with the Scottish Executive that Sue mentioned, to give us some idea of what is being proposed. This gets to the heart of one aspect of our remit—the synergy between local enterprise companies and further education colleges in relation to the provision of post-school vocational education.Does anyone want to follow up on the point that Marilyn raised, or shall we move on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155359",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 155359,
      "EditedText": "The folks from Renfrewshire who made the bid showed no lack of passion or skill, although Mr McNeill's analysis of the outcome may lead him to believe otherwise. Members should be aware of how the budget split matches up with the population split. As is obvious, the large centres of population take proportionately larger chunks of the expenditure, particularly as a high percentage of the budget is allocated to training, which has to do with numbers of people.I will happily share with the committee the comparison between the budget split and share of population, if the convener wishes me to. That will make clear that Renfrewshire is not disadvantaged to the extent that Mr McNeill suggests.As always with such figures, a health warning needs to be attached. Included in the figures are what we call major national projects. They are projects that will last for one or two years. I am certain that in a year or two, Renfrewshire will propose projects that will be deemed to be major national projects which, for the period of time that they are live, will distort the figures in favour of Renfrewshire. A couple of years ago, because of the construction of the Hyundai plant, the Fife allocation was apparently distorted in Fife's favour. That dynamic happens year on year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155360",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 155360,
      "EditedText": "That is an unfortunate example."
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  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 155369,
      "EditedText": "Is there any difference in business survival rates between businesses that you have assisted and these that you have not helped?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155384",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 155384,
      "EditedText": "Part of my question was asked earlier, but I want to know whether Scottish Enterprise has a strategic goal. We have heard that there is a whole range of training providers—public sector, private sector and all sorts. Does Scottish Enterprise have a role in examining the provision of workplace training in a region in relation to its needs? Which organisation carries out that role if Scottish Enterprise does not?"
    },
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  {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 155389,
      "EditedText": "You will be relieved that your ordeal is nearing its end, Alan.I would like to ask a question about the figures you gave for the distribution of the network budget. Will you expand on the network-wide spend, which amounts to roughly £60 million? If that spend is split among the 13 enterprise companies, they should receive between £4 million and £5 million each. How is that spend allocated to individual enterprise companies?My second question relates to management and administration charges, which seem to vary widely, from 10 per cent up to 16 per cent. The smaller enterprise companies spend a lot more of their budgets on management and administration. Are they being over-managed? Is there any scope for merging them? That goes back to Duncan McNeil's point about the difference between the budgets of different LECs—if an enterprise company receives 2 per cent of the overall budget, is it a viable company?"
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
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      "EditedText": "I would like to answer the last question first. There is no doubt that critical mass is an issue for smaller local enterprise companies and that there is a minimum establishment that is required to run the business, which can be diluted for the larger local enterprise companies. It is the old argument about whether small organisations are more effective than larger organisations, which is particularly the case when one has the burden of reporting, as we have. It does not matter whether one is talking about Glasgow Development Agency or Moray Badenoch and Strathspey Enterprise; statutory returns still have to be completed, to allow Scottish Enterprise to assemble the information to share with those who have reason to ask for it.Smaller local enterprise companies have a larger percentage of spend engaged in simply running the business—answering the telephone and so on. Whether one could make more effective use of the money by merging local enterprise companies is a much more complex issue. If the name of the game were simply to be the most efficient, one would not do it the way in which it is done at present. The way in which communities are serviced in the present structure is probably far more important than simply running the organisations at the absolute minimum cost. If it were done in that way, there might be less provision in some of the remoter parts of Scotland."
    },
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 155394,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful to have the detail on the network-wide spend."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155397",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
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      "EditedText": "I can offer some thoughts on that, but there is no definitive Scottish Enterprise answer to that complex question. In addressing the issue of risk, I shall simply reflect on the differences between an organisation such as this and organisations in the oil and gas sector, in which I have spent most of my working life. If someone in that world engaged in a project that was not successful, at the end of an accounting period it would be clear that there had been a failure, or that the risk had been inappropriate. The organisation would then take whatever measures were appropriate to ensure that that did not happen again. There would be no issue of public accountability. Organisations in the private sector can and do take risks regularly behind closed doors, and most of their employees do not know the risks that the organisations are taking when they bid for work or attempt to take over other organisations. It is, therefore, far easier to take risks in that environment, as the issue is resolved in private with the organisation's board of directors or with line managers. That encourages the taking of risks. The reward system for the individual in private organisations leads to people being far less risk averse, as their personal rewards result directly from the success of the ventures that they lead. It is a different culture.A publicly accountable body such as Scottish Enterprise has a completely different set of characteristics. There is the key issue of public accountability, of counting money in and counting outputs out. Woe betide anyone who hiccups on that road. We would have heard an awful lot more about Project Alba if it had failed—if public funds had been spent in significant measure on a project that had not attracted any industry interest. I suspect that, without any shadow of a doubt—and I am being as honest as I can—such a culture is not one that encourages taking risks to the extent that organisations do in the private sector. Although the private sector model might be considered to be good, in encouraging innovation and risk taking, aspects of the public sector tend to legislate against that model."
    },
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  {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 155398,
      "EditedText": "I shall allow a further three brief questions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155400",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
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      "EditedText": "I did not say that we did not accept that responsibility. I said that we are active in that area, but that others are also active. Were Scottish Enterprise mandated to design such training, we would be delighted to do it. We will do it in any event. What I am saying is that we are not alone in doing that, and that others have it on their agenda. We are quite happy to take responsibility for following through the things that we consider important, but there is overlap with other bodies in that area."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155408",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 155408,
      "EditedText": "Certainly."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155412",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 155412,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much for the opportunity to address some constructive questions. Perhaps had we wanted to run Scottish Enterprise in the most effective and easiest way, the organisation would have been designed differently. However, we have a lot of strengths. We have 200 LEC board members who give freely of their time and who actively participate in determining the economic development needs of their areas. We believe that the efforts that we make to manage LECs within our structures are well worth the return that we receive from the unpaid commitment of those board members. Perhaps perversely, our network is much stronger because it is not necessarily the easiest business machine to operate."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 3529,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 155414,
      "EditedText": "Now that the coffee cups have been replenished, I call this meeting to order so that we can pursue the remainder of the agenda. Item 3 is on rating revaluation. Members have expressed an interest in investigating the impact of the rating revaulation on business in Scotland in a single session inquiry. I raised that with the convener of the Local Government Committee, and the conclusions of our discussion are recorded in the paper that is before the committee today.The paper was formulated over a week ago, and I have since spoken to the Local Government Committee convener again. She has reflected further on the subject, and she is anxious that the investigation should be taken forward by that committee. Input from this committee would be welcome as part of that process. This committee acknowledged, when we first raised the issue, that it was in the province of the Local Government Committee. I now seek your guidance on where we go from here."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155419",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 155419,
      "EditedText": "When I suggested that the two conveners discuss this, I was not trying to kick it into the long grass. They should meet with the proviso that they plan and agree a programme of action that would involve the Local Government Committee taking on the immediate inquiry that this committee would otherwise undertake. Hopefully, that inquiry will be held at a time that is convenient for members of this committee. From discussions with the convener of the Local Government Committee, I understand that that can be achieved."
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155422",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 155422,
      "EditedText": "Allan's proposal is that I meet with the convener of the Local Government Committee to agree on a programme of inquiry that can be undertaken with input from this committee. If members agree, that is what I will do. I will ensure that the legitimate points that have been raised by external organisations and by committee members will be pursued."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155423",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Regional Selective Assistance",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 155423,
      "EditedText": "The fourth item on the agenda is the timetable for the review of regional selective assistance, which has been raised at previous meetings. Paper EL/99/4/3 sets out the time scale for the review of RSA. This is a reserved matter, and the UK Government's final proposals are due to be submitted to Brussels in October.I suspect that much of the input on the issue has been made and that there is very little that the committee can do to influence those deliberations, other than pursue further information."
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ID": 3530,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 155427,
      "EditedText": "\"Nudge-nudge, wink-wink\"? Thank you, Margo. The European Committee is obviously the place to be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 3531,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 3531,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 155430,
      "EditedText": "A witness who came before the European Committee spoke about the structural fund and mentioned many areas that were relevant to what we were talking about yesterday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 155432,
      "EditedText": "The next item is the committee's visit to the Highlands and Islands. The committee heard from many organisations in August about issues of priority for our remit. We decided not to talk to representatives from the Highlands and Islands at that time as we thought that it would be inappropriate to summon them to the central belt. We decided that the committee, which has responsibility for economic development in the Highlands and Islands, the University of the Highlands and Islands and the Gaelic language should spend some time consulting in the area.The proposed date for that visit is Wednesday 20 October, which is in the second week of the recess. The conveners committee has approved the visit on the basis that the official report and the other facilities of the committee will be present, and that a formal hearing will be conducted in Inverness. In the light of that, I propose to undertake a part of our inquiry—effectively the equivalent of what we have done this morning with Alan Sim—with Alan Sim's counterparts from Highlands and Islands Enterprise. It will be interesting to hear whether there are different approaches to the issues of local enterprise company relationships and their practices in the Highlands and Islands. The meeting will not be an exercise simply in gathering information—to which some of our time has been allocated—but will be part of our formal inquiry.Our proposal is that the working day should start at 10 o'clock on 20 October. Because of the distance that some members will have to travel to get to Inverness, I imagine that we will have to stay overnight, to guarantee that we will be able to have a decent crack at the business that is involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 155434,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We intend to hear evidence from Highlands and Islands Enterprise, representatives of the University of the Highlands and Islands, and Comunn na Gaidhlig. Although we have not reached a decision on it yet, we also hope to visit a facility in the Inverness area that has some relation to the remit of the committee—whether in the field of lifelong learning or in the enterprise environment. We are anxious to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 155437,
      "EditedText": "Okay. Any other points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 155446,
      "EditedText": "The overnight stay will be on the night before the meeting, because we plan to finish in good time on 20 October to let people get away in the evening.We intend to see representatives of UHI. I welcome George's suggestion of inviting the chair and/or chief executive of a local enterprise company. We will try to incorporate it into the programme so that we can both carry out a reasonable amount of the formal part of our inquiry and receive some more general briefing.On the subject of whether the meeting should be formal or informal, we made a proposal to the conveners committee that it should be an informal information gathering exercise. It decided that—as we are the first committee to go outside Edinburgh—we should conduct our business formally, with all facilities provided and the official report present, so that the people we meet know that we are taking the meeting very seriously.I am not sure of the answer to Nick's point, but the clerks will confirm the logistical arrangements and the contents of the agenda within the next few days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 3529,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 3529,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 155417,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased to hear that the Local Government Committee shares our sense of the subject's importance. Business rates could benefit from the more detailed scrutiny provided by the Parliament and its committees. I think, however, that this committee might be the better forum. As far as businesses in Scotland are concerned, rating revaluation is a business question. From our point of view as part of the system of government, it is a local government issue. We should, however, look at things from the point of view of the people and businesses affected. We have shown the appetite for this investigation and there is interest from all the parties represented on this committee.If the Local Government Committee considers the impact of rating revaluation, it is essential that, as you said, it should do so very soon and that all of the members of this committee should have the opportunity to participate in the hearing of evidence. I understand from the clerks that there might be complications over scheduling as the Local Government Committee meets at the same time as this committee does, although the Local Government Committee is on a weekly cycle of meetings.I think that it would be preferable for this committee to hear the matter, given that we have raised it. If that is not to be the case, there are practical problems to be resolved. It would be very bad indeed if members of this committee could not participate in Local Government Committee meetings on rating revaluation, should that be the forum that considers it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4324934+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 155442,
      "EditedText": "I would not recommend that members travel up in the morning if they plan to travel back on the same day. If we are in Inverness the evening before—I would have thought that that would be advisable—would it be possible to meet some people informally at about 8 o'clock? That would address the point that Elaine raised about having an informal chat. Over the years, many useful informal chats have been held at 8 o'clock or later in the Highlands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4324934+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 3527,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John Swinney): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 155298,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I welcome members of the committee and members of the public to the meeting. All mobile phones should be switched off and all pagers switched to an appropriate setting, as mine now is.Before I come to today's agenda, I draw members' attention to the note that the clerks have left on the table about the visit by members of the New South Wales Public Accounts Committee. Secondly, the chief executive of Cadence Design Systems, Ray Bingham, is visiting the Parliament this afternoon and will be in the visitors' gallery just before decision time. He has asked to meet me at 5.15, after close of business, in committee room 5, and any members who wish to join me there are very welcome. We will discuss Cadence's work  and Project Alba, which is very important in Scotland's economic development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 155301,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on the remit? No? All right.I have spoken to the clerks, Marilyn, and the proposal is that, after the comma following the words \"economic development\", we delete \"workplace training\" and insert \"post-school vocational education and training (excluding higher education)\". That is not quite as straightforward as it was before, but is everyone happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 155302,
      "EditedText": "The remit is confirmed.Today we are having our first evidence session from Scottish Enterprise and its network operations team. I want to invite wide-ranging contributions to the inquiry, and I think that it would be helpful to arrange an opportunity for the committee to outline to the press the work that we intend to cover. I propose to invite a member of each of the political parties that is represented on the committee to take part in that press briefing, which we will hold at a convenient time in the next week or so.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 155303,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 on the agenda is the start of our inquiry into local economic development services. We will take evidence from Alan Sim, who is the managing director of Local Enterprise Company Operations of Scottish Enterprise.Good morning, Mr Sim, and welcome to the committee. I will ask you first to introduce your colleagues, and then I will invite you to proceed with your presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Alan Sim (Managing Director, Local Enterprise Company Operations, Scottish Enterprise): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 155304,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. It is a pleasure to be here. May I introduce Imelda Molloy, who is manager of the corporate office at SE, and Sue Baldwin, who is manager of strategy and planning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 155312,
      "EditedText": "The short answer is that we do not view any of those development patterns as particularly gentle. Some organisations will have to improve their performance by between 30 and 40 per cent this year to meet the target that we will set.When we have internally benchmarked the performance of local enterprise companies, our next target in that sector will be to consider appropriate external benchmarks outwith Scotland, to lift the whole game. Across the spectrum of Scottish business, we are setting what we consider robust and challenging targets. I will happily share with members the detailed operating plan for the network that sets out all the targets and shows the year-on-year improvements that we are expecting to make. If appropriate, we can supply copies of that plan. The areas in which we are looking for the most significant improvements are those of export performance. We have key objectives in the areas of knowledge businesses and the creation of global companies. The latter is a new item on our agenda; we recognise the need for Scotland's businesses to be able to compete internationally and behave in a totally different way from companies that only occasionally export. Some ambitious targets have been set in those areas, which are detailed in the network operating plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155314",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 155314,
      "EditedText": "There is not. The types of businesses that are started are also radically different, depending on the groups from which the prospective business starts come. In my own area of Grampian—which is not dissimilar to Lothian—there is a fairly high percentage of high growth, technology-type company start-ups, as one would expect in a prosperous city such as Aberdeen. In the rural communities—West Lothian, Banff and Buchan, for example—there are unique difficulties. In those rural areas, we could learn a lot from our colleagues in the Borders, where there are smaller, fairly disadvantaged communities. We are trying to encourage colleagues who have a major conurbation in their area to consider examples elsewhere in addressing business start-ups. There is no doubt that that can be difficult. One of the differences that will help us, in that sense, is the different use of the enterprise trust network, or the way in which enterprise companies work with the local authorities. The issue of inclusion was alluded to. We believe that the business birth-rate strategy is a useful tool in helping us to ensure economic inclusion and in bringing people back into work. However, we cannot do those things in isolation—we must work with partners in local authorities, who are responsible for the social exclusion issues as well. One of the emerging themes, in response to those difficulties, is the establishment of local partnerships to investigate local delivery. It is interesting that the most active partnerships that are being formed are in the areas of greatest deprivation, where factors such as social and economic exclusion go hand in hand.The short answer is that there is no uniformity. That is recognised, and we are seeking better ways of delivering in the areas where there is underperformance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 155317,
      "EditedText": "I assume that part of the process of target setting would be to bring up the poorer performers to the standard of the best ones. In comparison with our European and international competitors, there is an identifiable structural weakness in the Scottish economy in respect of creating small to medium-sized enterprises, so how far can target setting be extended to take account of the statistics for new business starts in continental Europe and throughout the United Kingdom? How can Scotland's performance be measured against European and other UK standards?On the same theme, it seems pointless for us to try to reinvent the wheel. If your network has identified weaknesses, such as bureaucracy and the lack of readily available information, and has also identified a possible solution as involving simplified access, for example, how will you put your findings into practice? We have all met constituents who have complained about complicated access and about lack of information. How can your plans combat those problems?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 155321,
      "EditedText": "John raised the issue that I want to pursue. In your response to the previous question, you mentioned the multiplicity of providers. Bureaucracy and inconsistency of service were identified as weaknesses across the network. Are you saying that there is no room for rationalising service provision? Do you believe that we still need a multiplicity of service providers, which will obviously create bureaucracy of their own? When companies are engaging with a range of different service providers, it is difficult to control the consistency of the product and it is also very difficult to put strategic objectives in place."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155323",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 155323,
      "EditedText": "We take the point about Fife being a one-on-one situation in which progress can be made. Does that not demonstrate that in other areas, where there are a number of local authorities to one local enterprise company or vice versa, the case for pursuing rationalisation is even more compelling?"
    },
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  {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 155325,
      "EditedText": "My first question follows on from John's remarks. This map of local enterprise companies has been in force for nine years. What mechanisms are there to determine whether the enterprise companies are relevant to the areas that they cover or whether the map should be redrawn?My second question concerns business start-ups. Have you any information on how many start-ups are influenced by local enterprise companies, as opposed to those that start up independently with no contact with the local enterprise network?Thirdly, have you done any research on the impact of legislation on business start-ups? I am thinking of the working time directive and the minimum wage legislation. Is the bureaucracy that is involved in record-keeping a disincentive to businesses starting up?"
    },
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 155328,
      "EditedText": "I think that there are between 20,000 and 23,000."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155329",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 155329,
      "EditedText": "So, you are involved in about 20 per cent of business start-ups?"
    },
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 155330,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155333",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 155333,
      "EditedText": "With respect to your first point, Fergus, if it was considered appropriate and if we at Scottish Enterprise were requested to do so, we could certainly carry out the kind of mapping across Scotland that you describe. We probably have a significant part of the information, but we have not brought it together into a national document. In each of our local enterprise company areas, we can do the mapping and we could, if we were requested to, bring it all together. You mentioned training providers. Thus far, I have been mentioning providers of business start-up services and economic development services. I would concur with your number—which is indeed a very large number—when training providers are added. It is perhaps worth noting that, when we are discussing working in partnership with local authorities, numbers can become an issue.I will explain what I mean by that: we will seek to remove duplication by working with local authorities to identify who does what best. I suspect that that will lead to the formation of joint-venture organisations. As the convener knows, the business shops in Tayside are owned jointly by the local authority and the local enterprise company. One of the difficulties in forming such organisations across the piece is that local authorities are frequently commercial training providers. Scottish Enterprise would always seek to keep its role, which is to fund, regulate and quality assure training and ensure that that training is appropriate for its purpose, available where necessary and divorced from the commercial activities of some of the providers, which are involved to secure a profit base. Issues are raised about the extent to which we get into bed with some of those organisations. We would always wish to maintain resolutely the divide that I have spoken about.In answer to your question on consultancy, yes, consultancy spend is included in the sum of expenditure that I mentioned. Each local enterprise company is required to publish, on a six-monthly basis, a list of all the consultancies awarded in its area. That information is in the public domain. It is not pulled out anywhere, but it is not difficult to bring the 13 documents together and add the figures up. You then rightly mentioned tourism, which is a key industry in Scotland. In answering your question, I can advise members of an on-going initiative in the development of tourism. I am sure that members will have heard about Scottish Enterprise's cluster approach to various key economic sectors. Some of my colleagues may provide a different, more technical definition, but mine is this: rather than our dealing with tourism in Edinburgh and the Trossachs as different issues, the cluster approach is an examination of how an industry functions across Scotland and how it could function better. The concept of the cluster approach is to look at things in the round.Highlands and Islands Enterprise, Scottish Enterprise and the Scottish Tourist Board are developing a cluster action plan for tourism in Scotland. A steering group that comprises representatives of those bodies and of the trade sector is responsible for that work. I represent Scottish Enterprise on the group, which is led by Tom Buncle of the Scottish Tourist Board. We are examining the Scottish tourism product in the round. Over the next six to nine months we will develop an action plan, which those bodies will review and which will inform future decisions about investment and support.I suspect that the overarching structures for tourism will be determined in another place. Suffice it to say that the three bodies are working together at the executive level to examine support for the tourism industry."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155336",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 155336,
      "EditedText": "Convener—"
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  {
    "ID": "C155340",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 155340,
      "EditedText": "That is a very good question. I suspect that direction would come from the Parliament. The minister would probably direct the chairman of Scottish Enterprise."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155342",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
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      "EditedText": "I am not in a position to answer that. There may be conversations to which I am not privy. The board of Scottish Enterprise may have it in its gift to give that direction, but I am not sure whether that is the case."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 155344,
      "EditedText": "I am intrigued at the massive slab of the budget that goes to SEN—I presume that that is Scottish Enterprise national? Network wide gets about 29 per cent. That could equal two or three LEC budgets. What strategic direction is given to how much SEN spends itself before it doles out to the LECs?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155346",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 155346,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful to you, Alan. Does that lead to any conflict of self-discipline? Who would make a harsh judgment that too much is retained at the centre and not enough distributed to LECs?"
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 155348,
      "EditedText": "How does the relationship work between the LECs? How are resources allocated between them and what are the criteria for doing so? Is need assessed, as well as relative levels of prevailing unemployment and prospective travel-to-work areas?I also have a brief question about business start-ups. I notice that the Scottish Enterprise annual report cites a figure of 5,433 new business start-ups. Other interesting statistics were that you had 11,000 visitors to seven personal enterprise shows and that you distributed 24,000 business start-up packs. There is a substantial disparity between the number of business packs that are distributed and actual business start-ups. There will obviously be a disparity between the two, but is it at a level that you would expect? Is every pack that is issued followed up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 155354,
      "EditedText": "I recognise that it is a very important question with no clean, distinct answer. Before I try to answer, may I clarify one point? You mentioned social inclusion. Social inclusion is not explicitly on SE's agenda—economic inclusion is. Our partners in the local authorities deal with the more social aspects of inclusion. I hope that, jointly, we are in a position to provide a comprehensive package of support, covering both the social and the employment-related aspects, to those areas that require it.I am very sympathetic to the view that you must not force people into training or force them to get an SVQ or whatever, if that is not what is required to make them job ready. We need job-ready people, not people who have a piece of paper.Our organisation is required to be accountable and one of our difficulties is measuring our performance. There is no doubt that people like counting things, and counting vocational qualifications is quite an easy thing to do. If I am absolutely honest, I suspect that that is part of the reason why we focus on such things: we can count outputs and then explain to committees such as this one that, in return for the investment made in us, we have attained this number of outputs, and they are called vocational qualifications.We will have to work together to decide what meaningful, softer measures should be. It would be inappropriate for someone such as me to be called in front of a body such as this and be held accountable for the spending of public money without being able to say that we had helped to create this, that or the other. We are talking about something very complex. The key issue is how we can develop measures whereby the use of public money in support of people who seek to become job ready can be tracked and measured in a way that stops us having to fall back on using the vocational qualifications measure, which in many instances is singularly inappropriate.My colleague is engaged professionally in this area and might care to add something to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sue Baldwin (Scottish Enterprise): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 155355,
      "EditedText": "It might be worth saying that we are currently engaged in training colleagues in the Scottish Executive to find better ways of measuring success, so that we are not measuring training and employability programmes by—as Alan says—a piece of paper showing vocation qualifications. That is looking very promising at the moment. We now have an opportunity to talk about people progressing into sustained employment, which is why we are delivering the programmes in the first place.We are also examining how to make training provision much more seamless. Again, the focus is on delivering what is best for the individual, rather than a whole series of training programmes. That, too, encourages the development of more appropriate measures for delivering what we are trying to achieve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 155356,
      "EditedText": "That was a really honest answer. It is the first one that I have had, and I appreciate that.My background is in education and training, and I know that it is easy to count qualifications. Will you seriously consider doing what everyone else does and examining the Scottish Qualifications Authority portfolio of approved qualifications at levels 2 and 3? That is what happens in further and higher education and with the new deal. Professionals and the work place should be left to decide what is best for individual young people. Some people are not job ready and they need an education as well as a training input. On behalf of the people out there whom we are short changing, I ask you to consider that urgently. It is too easy to count VQs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 155366,
      "EditedText": "You have hit on something that is topical and appropriate: it does need challenging. Almost without exception, LEC boards are challenging their executives, particularly in light of the strategy that we are now working to, which I remind members is a new strategy that was introduced at the beginning of this year. Potentially, it changes the focus quite a bit, with regard to what Scottish Enterprise and the LECs do. It requires new skills and new people, and that debate is on-going with regard to the appropriateness of our organisations to deliver the new agenda, as opposed to the agenda that the network started with eight years ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 155367,
      "EditedText": "In some ways, the convener has highlighted one of the issues that I wanted to ask about, which is the targets and benchmarks that are being set. We talk about businesses created, jobs retained and jobs created, but often risk is not taken into consideration.One of the issues raised when Crawford Beveridge was here was that in Scotland we lag behind in the willingness to go into business, to take risk and to create new enterprise compared with, for example, the United States. How much does the meeting of the targets that we have put in place—so that it is easy for a chairman of an enterprise company to say, \"We did X, Y and Z\"—preclude him from going for projects with a greater risk and therefore a greater chance of failure, which will not make his performance look good? Do you take riskier projects head on at Scottish Enterprise, rather than at individual company level?The second question is again about the relationship between Scottish Enterprise and its 13 LECs. What are the sanctions in the contracts if an enterprise company is not performing? Can the Scottish Enterprise board say, \"This is an unacceptable performance and how will you improve it?\" given that the company must apply for the contract every year?We have talked about business start-ups. What are the measurements to judge the success of such businesses? It is all very well to start up 5,300 businesses, but we must know how many last for more than 12 months. Businesses often run into trouble after the initial 12-month period, especially if they start to expand and lack of capital becomes an issue, and they need extra help in the second or third year to get them on their feet. How much work is done in that area, and how many measurements are taken to show how successful the businesses are, in that they are in existence in two or three years' time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 155372,
      "EditedText": "That is an unlikely scenario. The point that members are driving at is that that is an unrealistic sanction, so it acts as neither carrot nor stick."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 155373,
      "EditedText": "At a pragmatic level, you are correct. At a working level, the key mechanisms are down to relationships and reporting. As local difficulties arise, the chairman of Scottish Enterprise is active in meeting the chair and the boards of those organisations. The chairman of Scottish Enterprise has the right to approve the appointments of LEC chairs and chief executives. It is at that level of influence that difficulties will be resolved.In a significant number of minor instances, the relationship between the chairman of Scottish Enterprise and the chairman of the local enterprise company has helped to resolve local difficulties. It would not be appropriate for me to give specific examples in a public forum, but the mechanism works effectively."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 155374,
      "EditedText": "I do not agree that this is not the appropriate forum to discuss changes to the personnel or management of a local enterprise company. When I asked a question in the chamber about a change in management that had taken place in Fife, I was told that it was not appropriate for me to ask the minister, and now you are telling me that we cannot talk about it here. How do I find out about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 155375,
      "EditedText": "In Fife, the chief executive resigned. The other matters, in terms of the day-to-day regulation of a business, are for the board of Scottish Enterprise, unless they are matters of public accountability, in which case I am sure that the Parliament will learn of them. We are an open and accountable organisation that is externally audited. On-going operational matters are reviewed regularly, just as they are in any organisation."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
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    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 155378,
      "EditedText": "When is that likely to be concluded?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155379",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 155379,
      "EditedText": "In November."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155380",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 155380,
      "EditedText": "I have three brief questions, the first of which relates to accountability. Mr Sim outlined how the LEC board members are appointed; he stressed that they are unitary rather than representative and that members of local authorities on those boards are there as individuals rather than as members of local authorities. Mr Sim has said quite a bit about the accountability of LECs to him, but will he comment on the accountability of LECs to their local communities?My second point is about the customer survey. Were only businesses surveyed, or were others involved with the LECs—for example, those who have lost their jobs and are in retraining for employment elsewhere—also surveyed?I would like to ask about the network's identified weaknesses and the claim that LECs do not help all companies equally. How does Mr Sim respond to comments made to me that the LECs are interested in inward investment and crisis management when companies fold and that they are interested in starting up new businesses, but that they are perceived to be less concerned with supporting existing businesses and helping them to expand?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155381",
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    "Time": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 155381,
      "EditedText": "Nothing prescriptive is laid down to cover accountability of LECs to local communities, but I think that I am safe in saying that every LEC has at least one public meeting a year. Most LECs run some form of public session for discussion of their performance on particular business issues.Some LECs have membership schemes that are open to individuals and companies. Members have access to a much wider range of LEC information than they would otherwise have.The main vehicle for public accountability outside membership of boards is the public meeting. However, if board membership is properly brought together in accordance with guidelines, it will represent well small, medium and large businesses, the third sector and the local authority in any area.The mechanism should be self-regulating. We would have some concerns if it were not. All the work in the past two years by all the LECs in developing their own strategy and their contribution to the new national economic development strategy have been carried out through public consultation. There were focus groups and an enormous Scotland-wide consultation. That work at national level brought all the local work together.The work at national level is an aggregate of the work at local level. The local enterprise company for which I used to be responsible undertook significant focus group work. The focus groups were representative and included trainees, members of small, medium and large businesses, representatives of third sector organisations and our local authority partners. The survey that we undertook was not only of a small, satisfied group of business customers; it was designed to be as representative as we could make it and included trainees, customers in receipt of support and some randomly selected businesses. Information relating to the selection surveyed is available in the customer survey documentation, in which there is specific analysis of those surveyed.I cannot read my writing; could you remind me of your last point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 155383,
      "EditedText": "That is another version of the old chestnut, which questions the balance between foreign direct investment and support for indigenous businesses. About 80 per cent of Scottish Enterprise spend goes on the support of existing and indigenous businesses; 20 per cent is spent on attracting new business. It is a complete fallacy that local enterprise companies are not interested in businesses that are already up and running."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 155385,
      "EditedText": "We have assumed that role, and work-based learning is near the top of our agenda. In recent publications, co-authored with Highlands and Islands Enterprise, we have brought that issue to the fore. We have a role, but it is not exclusive. It is one of those difficult areas where it is unclear whether there is a lead body with primary responsibility. As far as I am concerned, there is no lead body. Alongside employers, the Scottish Enterprise network is taking a role in developing various methodologies. We are providing significant support for work-based learning across Scotland. However, other bodies, such as colleges and local authorities, are also involved in such activities; there is a substantial overlap of involvement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
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      "ID": 3528,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 155386,
      "EditedText": "Does the absence of a lead body undermine the effectiveness of the delivery of those services?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 155387,
      "EditedText": "Yes. When many people are engaged in something—for all the right reasons—there will be a tendency to duplicate. I think that everyone involved in work-based training would agree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 155388,
      "EditedText": "I shall draw this part of the meeting to a close at 12 o'clock; we have time for a few more points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 155392,
      "EditedText": "You raise a good point, which we are seeking to address. We are putting in place a common chart of accounts for all local enterprise companies, which will allow us to move towards a system that is much closer to the model that you describe. Because they are independent limited companies, each with responsibilities under the Companies Act 1985, the local enterprise companies account for themselves in whatever way their boards determine is appropriate. However, the common chart of accounts, which is a major project, will use technology to remove as much of that burden from local enterprise companies as possible. Putting in place a more appropriate system should release some of the administrative overhead costs. However, that begs the question whether all the local enterprise company boards will be satisfied with that; they might require the probity of their own finance director and auditors. As directors of companies, the boards would be irresponsible if they did not give due consideration to that. On the question about the 15 per cent network-wide spend, I will ask Sue Baldwin whether we have any details on that, as we came prepared to answer questions on local enterprise companies and not on the network as a whole. I do not know whether that information is available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 155395,
      "EditedText": "We will add that to the list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 155399,
      "EditedText": "Your organisation seems to have accepted responsibility for its lead role in identifying skill shortages, yet it does not seem to accept the consequential responsibility, as the lead organisation, for designing the workplace training that would bring together the social partners to address the gap."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 155402,
      "EditedText": "As Crawford Beveridge has previously said, we are satisfied that there is enough provision to meet need. It can always be proved that demand is never absolutely satisfied; however, there is not much evidence, other than anecdotal evidence, of a lack of available funding. Whether such funding is available on sufficiently commercially attractive terms is another issue. Although we are satisfied that there are adequate mechanisms for delivering support, certain individuals who seek to start up a business may not find the terms under which that support is offered as attractive as they might wish. We certainly have no specific proposals to do anything as radical as Fergus has suggested, although we would not rule that out in future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 155403,
      "EditedText": "It has been said that this is the era of co-operation, not competition, between the LECs. Mr Sim mentioned getting best value for money by having LECs that spend a much higher percentage of their budget on administration costs tap into some kind of central servicing. However, could we also cut costs by stopping the duplication of consultancy reports?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 155407,
      "EditedText": "Could we have a briefing on that issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 155409,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could have a written briefing instead of a presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 155410,
      "EditedText": "We have a paper detailing our knowledge web project that I could circulate to members."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155411",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 155411,
      "EditedText": "I want to draw this part of our meeting to a close by thanking Alan and his colleagues for coming today and for so fully answering our questions. Alan, do you have any other comments before I wind up?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155420",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 3529,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 155420,
      "EditedText": "I am slightly concerned that the business imperative has been lost sight of. This is a very pressing matter, which is already a problem for the business community. As Fergus rightly said at our previous meeting, either we do something about this now, or we leave it. I am concerned, frankly, that if there is a bureaucratic exchange between two committees over who does what, the moment will be lost.I see no reason why the two committees cannot work in tandem. Is there any reason why we should not draw up a provisional schedule, as proposed in this paper, with a view to calling people? If the Local Government Committee then finds that it has too much to do, or whatever the explanation might be, and cannot examine rating revaluation, at least we will not have lost ground."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Regional Selective Assistance",
      "HeadingID": 3530,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ID": 3530,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 155424,
      "EditedText": "The second last paragraph mentions tier 3 areas in England and Wales. I want to ask the Executive whether it envisages having similar areas in Scotland where small and medium business would receive assistance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 3531,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 3531,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 155428,
      "EditedText": "The European Committee has referred the matter of the Scottish operational plan for objective 3 funding to this committee for its views. That paper—it is more than a paper, it is a tome—has been circulated to committee members.The issue is likely to come back to the European Committee on 19 October and I suspect that, as Allan and Margo are members of the European Committee, members should make their comments directly to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 3531,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 3531,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 155429,
      "EditedText": "The European Committee had a long discussion about this matter yesterday. A number of important issues were raised on which consensus was reached. At some point, I will report back to this committee on the matter because of the correlation between structural funds and economic development.The European Committee discussed developing a rapporteur system. It was stated that each committee could develop its own means of reporting. We might want to consider a system whereby Margo and I could report back to this committee about matters of joint interest and perform the same function in the European Committee. That would not interfere with members' rights to attend both committees, but it would formalise the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 155435,
      "EditedText": "Would it be worthwhile asking one or two of the local enterprise company chairmen or chief executives to come along, to give us the Orkney, Shetland or Western Isles perspective? In Highlands and Islands Enterprise, spending limits and the way in which decisions are taken on projects over a certain limit are different from their equivalents in Scottish Enterprise. There may be some value in exploring such issues with the outlying local enterprise companies. Some of their agendas may even be totally different from the central one of Highlands and Islands Enterprise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 155443,
      "EditedText": "To be clear, is Fergus Ewing proposing that we stay overnight before the meeting and then go home when the meeting finishes?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 155444,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other points before I respond to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Youth Enterprise Challenge",
      "HeadingID": 3533,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ID": 3533,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 155450,
      "EditedText": "I was one of the judges and some excellent projects were put before us. I wondered whether we could extend our invitation to include the second-prize winners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Youth Enterprise Challenge",
      "HeadingID": 3533,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ID": 3533,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 155451,
      "EditedText": "Excellent projects—and from Mr Lyon's constituency, unsurprisingly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Youth Enterprise Challenge",
      "HeadingID": 3533,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ID": 3533,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 155452,
      "EditedText": "Why are we not able to finance their visit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Youth Enterprise Challenge",
      "HeadingID": 3533,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3533,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 155455,
      "EditedText": "Well, there is no provision for that, but we are happy to accept the proposal to invite the winners and to accept George's point as well.Thank you all for your contributions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 155401,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, risks must be taken in business, and due diligence must be exercised when dealing with any application. I am concerned about the access to capital for business start-ups, especially for people from poorer backgrounds, who have no security. Traditionally, in Scotland, the house is used as a means of security to fund new businesses. At the moment, the access to capital for small business start-ups is not adequate, although we have heard from Crawford Beveridge that there are various schemes. Do you consider that there is a need for a small business enterprise bank, such as the Federation of Small Businesses has advocated and, if so, do you foresee that the Scottish Enterprise network will be the means of delivering such assistance to meet the Executive's target of creating 100,000 new businesses in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:03.1307734+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 155331,
      "EditedText": "This review is obviously intended to find the best means of delivering economic development in Scotland. Reading the \"Pathfinders to the Parliament\" document—which was commissioned by the Scottish Office—I was struck by the fact that no fewer than 300 bodies are involved in the delivery of economic development and training. That seems to be too many. You mentioned the need to remove overlaps and duplication. We are trying to audit the existing provision, which seems to be a difficult task. When local authorities or chambers of commerce give evidence to us, it is unlikely that they will suggest that they are the ones whose role should be diminished. Would you regard it as part of your function to provide an audit of Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise, together with a statement on your perception of the way in which services are overlapping or duplicated? There is substantial duplication, and we all want to eliminate that, although none of us has any preconceived ideas or prejudices about how it should be done.Secondly, you mentioned that 95 per cent of the £455 million budget goes on delivery. Does that include money spent on consultancy? If so, are you able to isolate—because I have not found it in any of your reports—the total amount spent on consultancy? Is it too much? Thirdly, there seems to be a real problem with the development of tourism. Marketing is a function of the Scottish Tourist Board and development is a function of Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise. Therefore, development and marketing are divorced. I have a genuine problem with that, as it could be a barrier to effectiveness. Finally, on structures, I straddle, in my constituency, the areas of Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise. It is perhaps the only such constituency in Scotland—although it is not the only tight spot that I am in from time to time. I wonder whether Moray Badenoch and Strathspey Enterprise might be more at home in the HIE network than in the Scottish Enterprise network."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:25.9917783+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 29 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3527,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 155297,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:03"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 155299,
      "EditedText": "Item 1 on our agenda is the formal confirmation of the remit of the committee's first inquiry. You will recall that, at our previous meeting two weeks ago, we decided on this inquiry. The clerks and I have formulated the detailed paper that has been circulated, paper EL/99/4/1. Some comments by members have already been incorporated. I am aware that Marilyn Livingstone wants to raise a further point on the contents of the first paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3528,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 155300,
      "EditedText": "As well as workplace training, we have talked about post-school education up to higher level, and I feel that that should be reflected in the paragraph."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 155305,
      "EditedText": "I hope that you have seen the remit of the committee's first inquiry. Our objective is to examine the delivery of economic development, post-school vocational education services and business support services at a local level in Scotland. We recognise that at the heart of the delivery of almost all those services are the local enterprise companies and the work of SE.We felt that, before we delve into the immense detail and, dare I say, complexity that surrounds these issues, we should hear from Scottish Enterprise about the approach that is taken to the structure of the network and the issues that are involved. We will use that evidence as a back-cloth to the submissions that we invite other parties to make to the committee. I invite Alan Sim to deliver his presentation and then I will open up the discussion to questioning from members."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155309",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, Margo. We move on to questioning Alan. You mentioned the relationship between Scottish Enterprise and the local enterprise companies in relation to target setting. One of the areas that we have discussed is the extent to which local enterprise companies are free to pursue their own priorities and the degree of guidance that they receive from Scottish Enterprise. Could you say more about the role that Scottish Enterprise plays in pursuing a particular policy and strategy direction with local enterprise companies? How does that translate into target setting and how effectively can the two be linked?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155306",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I will start with a very brief presentation. I recognise that colleagues who gave early evidence showed some of these slides to members and I apologise for the duplication. However, I thought that it would be useful to do some high-level scene setting and to introduce one or two issues that are very dear to our hearts as we move into the millennium. I will use the slides as a starting point for any subsequent questions.As can be seen from slide 1, my presentation will take the format of a quick look, to remind members, at the four strategic goals that Scottish Enterprise has identified with the Parliament, at accountability and relationships within the Scottish Enterprise network and at the budget distribution across the local enterprise companies. I will also talk briefly about, and clarify issues that relate to, local enterprise company boards and governance. We have recently completed a customer survey and there is a slide that shows some of the lessons that we are picking up from that.Members may recall from an earlier presentation that there are four key strategic objectives that Scottish Enterprise seeks to achieve with its partners: creating innovative, far-sighted organisations; developing positive attitudes to learning and enterprise; creating a competitive Scotland; and developing an inclusive economy. Members will see from slide 2 that Scottish Enterprise's activities overlap into each of those four areas, as do those of many of our partners, which I am sure that we will touch on later.Slide 3 sets out the structure within which Scottish Enterprise operates—the network is an oft-misunderstood beast. The company was established under the Enterprise and New Towns (Scotland) Act 1990 and reports to the Parliament via the Executive. The First Minister appoints Scottish Enterprise's independent board, which sets strategic guidance, allocates budgets and monitors performance as its primary functions.The executive arm of the organisation has a central division, which we call Scottish Enterprise national, and 13 local enterprise companies. Jointly, we refer to ourselves as the network and, if members do not object, I will use that as a generic term. The local enterprise companies are bound to Scottish Enterprise by annual contracts to deliver certain pre-agreed outputs, although they are independent organisations—companies limited by guarantee—with independent boards.In turn, local enterprise companies create a plethora of other contracting arrangements with training providers, such as enterprise trusts, local authorities, chambers of commerce and the like. There is a complete web that starts with the Parliament, reaching down to on-the-ground delivery.Slide 4 serves as a brief reminder. The area marked in green is referred to as lowland Scotland and is the responsibility of Scottish Enterprise. The purple area at the top is the responsibility of our friends and colleagues in Highlands and Islands Enterprise. The 13 local enterprise companies are also listed.Slide 5 indicates the percentage spend across the network by local enterprise companies and by the national part of the organisation. I have figures available for the network's budget distribution and can make them available to members, should they so wish. Programme design and delivery absorbs 95 per cent of our spend, while the remaining 5 per cent goes on background research and administrative things such as year 2000 compliance. Of the Scottish annual budget of £455 million, 95 per cent goes directly on delivery and is allocated as shown in the pie chart on slide 5.Slide 6 sets out some of the guiding principles for local enterprise company board membership. Each board has a maximum of 18 members, all of whom are unpaid volunteers. They represent the public, private and voluntary sectors, although each board must be private-sector led—each LEC chair is a representative of the private sector. Board members are unitary, not representative, which is a point worth making because each local authority has a seat on a LEC board. Those individuals are there, however, in their own right and not as representatives of a particular local authority. There is guidance that encourages a balance in board membership, both in terms of gender and in terms of balance across the business sector, from large to medium to small businesses.A key governance issue is the appointments procedure for board members. There is a requirement that LECs convene a nominations committee with external representation on it and that all vacancies to the LEC boards are publicised within the local area to identify prospective board members. Board members may serve more than one term, but the maximum permitted is three terms of three years or two terms of four years. As they are independent companies, there is some flexibility in what the local memos and articles of the organisations establish as a term, whether it is three years or four. In exceptional circumstances—for example, to preserve continuity during a time of change—those terms may be extended by up to one year. Conflict of interest procedures for each LEC are publicly available.At the beginning of my presentation I mentioned a customer survey that we recently completed. This slide shows some of the key findings of that. The point that I would like to make first is that 80 per cent of our client base is very satisfied with the services provided. The full report is available for committee members, but I wanted to emphasise that point. I do not want to indulge in too much praise for the network in this presentation; I simply note that fact and identify for you the key strengths of the network as reported by our customers.The first one is the local focus: the distributed network across Scotland is seen as a major strength. Secondly, the international role of the organisation through Locate in Scotland and Scottish Trade International is seen as a major strength by the business community. Thirdly, the quality of business advice is deemed to be high, and fourthly, the strategic role of the network is held in considerable regard. In the survey, the business community urged Scottish Enterprise to use its strategic role in helping to guide the decisions of this Parliament. That is a key remit from our customer base. Finally, our staff is perceived to be of a high quality.The weaknesses that were identified in the survey, on which we are currently working, include a perception that there is a lack of available information. I suspect that that does not relate to volume but to ease of assimilation and quality and consistency of information. There is also a perception of bureaucracy, and more than a perception that we do not help all companies equally. Business decisions are made about investments and that is one of the key underlying principles of the economic development agency that we represent. There are perceived financial restrictions. Any organisation that does not recognise that it works within fairly tightly constrained financial guidelines is atypical in today's world. Another conclusion of the survey, which is perhaps not as explicit, is a perception that there seems to be some sort of internal competition in the economic development network as a whole, which includes economic development providers such as local authorities, chambers of commerce and many other organisations. There is a strong view that the service available across Scotland is inconsistent and that there is a real requirement for us to simplify access. We are taking all those issues to heart this morning. If members wish, I will happily outline the action that we are taking in that regard.That is the end of the formal part of the presentation. I had intended to put up a slide about the operating targets that are set by Scottish Enterprise, against which the local enterprise companies are measured. However, it would be less than helpful as it runs to several pages of fairly closely typed information. We would be pleased to make them available, but I would like to draw your attention to one fundamental change in the network, which is the way in which we get involved in target setting.Historically, there has been a bottom-up assimilation of information and a top-down imposition of targets. Last year, we created four leadership groups for each of our strategic goals, each chaired by a local enterprise company chief executive. Those groups, which are mainly comprised of practitioners from the local enterprise companies, identify the key performance targets, in qualitative and quantitative terms, in each area of interest. Those are then assimilated, reviewed and approved by the Scottish Enterprise board and become the targets for the network. The determination of targets is an integrated process.In addition, we aspire to targets that are set down by the Parliament and outside agencies. The majority of the key targets that we will be examining will have been set by the network rather than having been imposed by our operation in Bothwell Street. That was my introduction. I will happily move to questions."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C155316",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
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      "EditedText": "You are."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155318",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 155318,
      "EditedText": "The first question was about benchmarking Scotland's performance with that of continental Europe and the rest of the UK. The answer is that we are in the process of benchmarking and we are gathering the necessary information. Our initial decision was that we had to identify where the best performance was in Scotland and identify how far short of our targets we were in more deprived and difficult areas. We know that, for a variety of reasons, it is more difficult to establish a new business in parts of the west of Scotland. Hitherto, we have had no mechanism for measuring how much more difficult it is and what it means for business start-up statistics—that is why we started to establish measurements for businesses in Scotland. The strategy was to raise our game within Scotland as near as we could to our domestic best in class. After that, we intend to publish benchmarks for what we consider to be appropriate international best practice for economies that are comparable with Scotland's.The process has several steps. We have taken the first step and the outcome is looking very promising. I suspect that raising the standard of Scotland's performance in the international scene will be more challenging, but that is on our agenda.We have a number of initiatives on access and we are engaging in dialogue with various parties. One of the difficulties with dialogue is that Scottish Enterprise cannot talk only to itself. It must talk to its network of local enterprise companies and they have to talk to an extended network of more than 20 enterprise trusts, umpteen chambers of commerce and more than 30 local authorities, all of which support economic development. All the members of that network add to the noise in the system and therefore to the confusion.We propose that in each regional area there should be a single point of entry. At the moment, we have what are called business shops, which exist to provide information. We will be doing more work on that concept, to develop the service more widely throughout Scotland, and we will encourage all our partners in the delivery chain to use business shops as the first point of entry.With the exception of Tayside—where business shops actually provide assistance—business shops typically act like enterprise trusts. Tayside no longer has enterprise trusts. The norm in Scotland is for the business shop to be a point of information, a point of signposting and a point of entry. We seek to reinforce that; we are about 20 per cent into the process of examining how we can do it. We are looking closely at technology. Members may have seen a recent initiative based on electronic kiosks to give people ready access to information on business start-ups. There are some 13 or 14 of those kiosks, the purpose of which is to trial the concept of providing ready access to information, thus eliminating the need for a long journey. The concept of a Scottish call centre for the provision of similar advice and for subsequent signposting is also being considered.I reinforce my earlier point: Scottish Enterprise cannot have this conversation on its own. Through our network, we can fairly readily tidy up our bit and we will certainly do that. The more challenging aspect is to work with all our partners and bring everyone together. We are confident that there is a shared belief that that is what partners want and we will deploy significant resources on that in the coming months."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
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      "EditedText": "I want to push you a little further on that point. I am interested in the distinction that you made about what Scottish Enterprise can control and what requires partner involvement. In effect, that gets to the nub of why we are carrying out this inquiry—this is a wider debate and we want to help to improve that process.As a Tayside MSP, I am familiar with the Tayside example. I have arrived at the conclusion, from the business shop exercise, that although there may be a single point of information, that system has led to a deterioration in service for certain types of companies, particularly smaller companies, which seem to have lost contact with the network. I understand the logic of the single point of contact, but should the single service providers be represented by that single point of contact or should a multiplicity of providers continue to provide services behind that front shop? How would you tackle those relationships?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155327",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 155327,
      "EditedText": "You said that 5,000 businesses started with assistance from the local enterprise companies. Altogether, how many new businesses are started up in Scotland annually?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155332",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 155332,
      "EditedText": "This feels like the Schleswig-Holstein question all over again."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155337",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 155337,
      "EditedText": "Please respond to the question on competitive tendering, Alan—that will keep us on safe ground."
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155339",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 155339,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in your response to Nick Johnston's question: you said that, unless you were directed otherwise, there were no plans to redraw the map. Where would that direction come from?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155341",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 155341,
      "EditedText": "You do not think that the decision would originate within Scottish Enterprise?"
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 155351,
      "EditedText": "Will you ask the witness a question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 155358,
      "EditedText": "I will try to be brief, principally because Alan and Annabel raised the issue that interests me—budget allocation. I do not know how open and transparent the budget is, but I am interested to know why Renfrewshire receives only 5 per cent of it. Is that a reflection on the negotiating skills of Renfrewshire's representatives—what they asked for and the quality of the bid that they put in—or does it reflect their clout within the network?Away from the centres of influence, such as Edinburgh and Glasgow, the budget appears to fragment and the money allocated to diminish—more than 60 per cent is shared between five areas. I am interested in how much more open the process could be and how we might influence it. Why did Renfrewshire's representatives bid for such a small amount of the money and why are they not better negotiators?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 155361,
      "EditedText": "Currently, we have major projects in the east and west of Scotland. They tend to move around, depending on need and opportunity. Within the figures are large chunks of money that can distort the year-on-year figure. I ask members to examine the underlying base lines minus those distortions: we can help to provide that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 155362,
      "EditedText": "There is a point that we have not got to the nub of: which information that comes to this table needs to be discussed? I am sorry to ask you for another piece of paper, but we would like to hear more about how the process of distributing resources operates. I appreciate the point that you made concerning big projects, but there seems to be a lot of explaining required, which I am not sure a one-off discussion this morning can address. Would that be helpful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
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      "ID": 121
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 155363,
      "EditedText": "Can we have the per capita distribution of resources, so that we have something to compare with the actual distribution?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 155364,
      "EditedText": "We would be pleased to submit that information. By way of information, this is a complex issue and we are continually evolving how we do it: it is not a science. This year will, in essence, be a hybrid year because we are in transition. We are asking local enterprise companies not to bid for money but to say—I hate to return to the famous SVQs—\"Next year we wish to create 3,000 level 3 vocational qualifications in our area. We wish to bring back into use x hectares of derelict, contaminated land. We wish to create so-many hundred new start-up small businesses.\"We are encouraging local enterprise companies to bid for what they think their regions need. We will allocate funds after examining how that need can be accommodated, rather than have LECs bidding for big-buck budgets. It may be more appropriate for LECs to have more money for a particular area of need than simply to have a bigger budget. We are trying to move the conversation to one of outputs rather than inputs, with money being the input. The important point is the outputs that are achieved with the money, not the money itself because, for example, some of the large capital projects that are important at a Scotland level do not have hugely significant impacts in the local areas in which the money is being spent. We are trying to move the discussion to one of considering what the LECs wish to achieve for their communities in terms of outputs, and then allocating appropriate resources to those activities, rather than simply focusing on all LECs chasing a large budget."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
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      "EditedText": "Does not that process involve also the local enterprise companies having a good look at their own organisation and determining whether they are output focused and have objectives, such as the transformation of x hectares of contaminated land? Some aims of the LECs may be habitual. They may say, \"We have that facet of our organisation in year one, so we will have it in year two.\" Does not that view require to be challenged as well?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
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      "EditedText": "When you answer George's second question, will you tell us how the Scottish Enterprise network has demanded higher performance by individual local enterprise companies over the eight years of the history of the organisation? What sanction has been employed, in extremis, when that performance has not been delivered?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 155370,
      "EditedText": "That is a triumvirate of questions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155371",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 155371,
      "EditedText": "The first question was about risk. I think that the question was where the network takes risk: is it at LEC level or is it nationally? The answer is that it should be at both levels. We seek to encourage the taking of risk, because that is where many of the big prizes are. I offer as an example the much discussed Project Alba, which I am sure members will have heard about. That was a high-risk project to secure investments from foreign direct investors in a sophisticated area of system-on-a-chip development work, which was done jointly between Scottish Enterprise, four of Scotland's universities and the then Scottish Office. At local level, anecdotally, there are numerous projects. Tourism was mentioned earlier—the network has supported financially a large number of risky tourism projects. By risky, I mean that when we build a visitor attraction such as Our Dynamic Earth, there is no guarantee that X thousand people will visit it per annum. The network is in risk-taking mode. There is a discussion to be had about whether there should be more risk taking, or whether we are so bureaucratically constrained by the public accountability issues of a public body, such as we are, that it makes us risk averse. That might be something for the board of Scottish Enterprise, the Executive and the committee to consider. If a country has a culture of openness and accountability and counts expenditure of public money against outputs, there is a tendency to create a risk-averse culture. My organisation has an internal ethos that strives not to be risk averse; we have several successful projects which, although they now look like good investments, were substantial risks when they were started.I cannot answer the convener's question about the sanctions that Scottish Enterprise has taken against non-performing local enterprise companies in the past eight years, as I have been involved for fewer than four years. The ultimate sanction that Scottish Enterprise has is not to renew the company's contract, which must be renewed annually. What happens then has not been tested—obviously, the community would still require the provision of services. Would another LEC be asked to undertake that work? Would a separate organisation be asked to bid for it?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 155376,
      "EditedText": "Will you say more about business start-ups?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155377",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
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      "EditedText": "A key point is that business start-ups are related to survivability. We monitor survivability on an on-going basis, first after 18 months and again after three years. We are studying whether businesses that are assisted by organisations such as ours have better three-year survivability than start-ups that go down a wholly commercial route. We do not have that information yet, but we are identifying trends."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 155382,
      "EditedText": "It was about the criticism levelled by some businesses that the LECs are not giving all businesses the same support."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155391",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 155391,
      "EditedText": "Is not there another way of looking at that? I would need a bit of persuasion to say to large parts of rural Scotland, \"You can have your one big enterprise company.\" Is there always a need for all those functions to be carried out at local level? This is the nub of a key structural factor about the status of local enterprise companies. To deliver the local character that flows from Scottish Enterprise's customer survey, do they need to be limited companies with all the—quite legitimate—reporting constraints? Would not they be more effectively and locally focused if the books were done by a central accounting team, for example?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155393",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sue Baldwin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 155393,
      "EditedText": "We can send the details but, for example, the network-wide spend includes approximately £6 million that is managed by the skills directorate in Scottish Enterprise operations, to deal with the follow-through of the new deal scheme and the new futures fund. Although Scottish Enterprise manages that budget, it is spent at local level. It also includes development of the Scottish university for industry, which is managed at Scottish level, but is delivered locally. Training allowances are also spent locally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 155396,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to the answer that you gave to my question about risk. It seems to be a fundamental question in the context of the performance of the enterprise network. You said that you believe that the enterprise network is not averse to taking risks, and that it is willing to take on high-risk projects. You gave the example of Project Alba. You also said that, if either the Scottish Executive or the committee decided that hard targets for public accountability should be put in place, the Scottish Enterprise network could become risk averse. That would be detrimental. Will you explain and expand on that issue? It will be central to some of our future deliberations on the performance of the network, and will influence whether we conclude that changes need to be made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 155404,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we must do that. We are aware that such duplication happens from time to time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 155405,
      "EditedText": "There is a lot of duplication."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Sim: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 155406,
      "EditedText": "That is true. Although it sounds trite to talk about knowledge management and the knowledge age, that is the point we have reached. Scottish Enterprise is undertaking major internal work to capture what knowledge we have from the people who work for us and from the reports that we have commissioned and will continue to commission.We have to bring all that knowledge together in a way that is readily accessible across the network, so that people will not need to duplicate work. In the past, there has been duplication because people have not been aware that information might have been available elsewhere and we must provide tools for them to find that out before they spend money on recommissioning work. That is a high priority for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Local Economic Development Inquiry",
      "HeadingID": 3528,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3528,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 155413,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Alan. The clerks have identified eight items of follow-up information that we want to secure from you. Because of time, I will not go through those items just now, but I will drop you a note that sets out all the points that emerge from the Official Report of this meeting. Committee members will receive that information as soon as it is brought to hand. Thank you for participating in our meeting. I am sure that, in the fullness of our inquiry, we will ask you for more information and, possibly, to appear again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 3529,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 3529,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 155415,
      "EditedText": "I was going to suggest that a discussion with the convener of the Local Government Committee might resolve the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 3529,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 3529,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 155416,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to do that, but if anyone is going to investigate this, it must be done pdq for the inquiry to be of any value. If the Local Government Committee is going to pursue this inquiry because the subject is in its province, then it must do so swiftly. On Tuesday, I was at a meeting of the conveners' committee and one of the points that we discussed was hybrid issues such as this, which must be resolved by dialogue between conveners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 3529,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 3529,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 155418,
      "EditedText": "My colleague on the Local Government Committee has told me that it is very keen to take this issue forward. At a meeting of the Liberal Democrat parliamentary group, we discussed the paper that was circulated by the Federation of Small Businesses. We thought that the Local Government Committee should take the issue on board, but that this committee should have input. It was felt that a 45-minute session, which was proposed as one way for us to have input, was not long enough to allow us to do justice to this. If we do this, we need to do it properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Rating Revaluation",
      "HeadingID": 3529,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ID": 3529,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 155421,
      "EditedText": "We are getting a bit overexcited. Rating revaluation was fourth on our list of priorities. I see some members shaking their heads, but at our previous meeting only two members spoke in favour of dealing with it as a priority. We decided on other priorities. As rating revaluation is a pressing matter, Allan and others have offered a solution to get it on the agenda. We are dealing with another committee. There is a question about how detailed an examination there can be. I do not know whether the Local Government Committee will have more time to discuss it than the 45 minutes that we would have if we went ahead. Therefore, motives have to be questioned. What can be achieved in 45 minutes? Let us work with the Local Government Committee to get real debate on the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Regional Selective Assistance",
      "HeadingID": 3530,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ID": 3530,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 155425,
      "EditedText": "The matter has been looked at in some detail by the European Committee—Margo can confirm that. The Finance Minister was questioned about it. My recollection of that discussion leads me to believe that the questions that we have asked today would be answered in the affirmative. The European Committee will meet Jack McConnell again to discuss the matter, but there is no reason why we should not pursue the matter with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Regional Selective Assistance",
      "HeadingID": 3530,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ID": 3530,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 155426,
      "EditedText": "It was a nudge-nudge, wink-wink sort of thing, but I think that Allan is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 3531,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ID": 3531,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 155431,
      "EditedText": "To protect Allan and Margo, committee members should make their comments to the clerk, who will compile them and pass them on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 155433,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other organisations that you propose to invite?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 155436,
      "EditedText": "This will be the first time that we have met any of the organisations from the Highlands and Islands. I think that the day should be split up into a part at which the official report is present and a part that is more like an informal briefing. Most organisations have had an opportunity to speak to this committee informally, but none of the organisations in the Highlands and Islands has. I wonder whether there would be any value in dividing the day, so that one part is official—as part of the inquiry that we have undertaken—and one part is simply an informal briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 155438,
      "EditedText": "Is it envisaged that the clerks will make the arrangements for the booking of hotels and things for us? Will we all go up together and stay in the same hotel? I am thinking of what Elaine said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ID": 3532,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 155439,
      "EditedText": "I can travel to Inverness in the morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 155440,
      "EditedText": "There could be an opportunity for some of us to meet some of the organisations informally the night before."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3532,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 155441,
      "EditedText": "Any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4327689+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 155445,
      "EditedText": "Will there be an opportunity to talk to someone from the University of the Highlands and Islands while we are there?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 155447,
      "EditedText": "Can you confirm that the formal/informal part of the proceedings will be confined to the Wednesday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands (Visit)",
      "HeadingID": 3532,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 288.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 155448,
      "EditedText": "I feel constrained by the decision of the conveners committee to say that the whole of 20 October will be a formal hearing with the official report present. If we have other informal discussions the evening before, perhaps it would be better if they are not recorded—certainly if the discussions that took place in Inverness after 8 o'clock last week are anything to go by. Laughter. But I will be in touch with you about the final details."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Youth Enterprise Challenge",
      "HeadingID": 3533,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 155449,
      "EditedText": "The Presiding Officer has referred a proposal to the committee that we should invite the successful team in the challenge to join us for coffee before the next meeting in Edinburgh on 27 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Youth Enterprise Challenge",
      "HeadingID": 3533,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 155453,
      "EditedText": "There is no provision for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 29 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 821
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Youth Enterprise Challenge",
      "HeadingID": 3533,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 155454,
      "EditedText": "That is real cheapskate stuff. If George Lyon endorses a project and this committee then invites the winners to come here but does not pay for the bus, that is terrible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155456",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Youth Enterprise Challenge",
      "HeadingID": 3533,
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 155456,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:28."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4483943+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19299,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 638423,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:16"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19299,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 638424,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. We have our full complement. Welcome to visitors, and to a member of the press corps, who has come to see how we structure and run the committee. Without further ado, we will press on with agenda item 1, which concerns the Executive responses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C638431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)<br />National Health Service (General Ophthalmic Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/55)",
      "HeadingID": 19302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 19302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 638431,
      "EditedText": "I would like to know what the Executive means by \"as soon as practically possible\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)<br />National Health Service (General Ophthalmic Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/55)",
      "HeadingID": 19302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 19302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 638432,
      "EditedText": "We can go back to it on that. I agree wholeheartedly with the comments of Bristow, Trish and Ian. I take it that the committee's view is that we will draw our views on consolidation to the attention of the Parliament and perhaps clarify with the Executive what it means by \"as soon as practically possible\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Act 1999 (Fund-Holding Practices) (Transfer of Assets, Savings, Rights and Liabilities and Transitional Provisions) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/56)",
      "HeadingID": 19303,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 19303,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 638434,
      "EditedText": "The drafting remains defective. On that basis, we must draw it to the attention of the Parliament."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 19307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 638442,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 relates to the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill, which is an item that has been carried on from last week. We have had an opportunity to read the Executive's response to our points and, more important, our legal adviser's notes. An issue has been raised about the benefits to the committee for instruments to be laid before Parliament. We had a discussion about this matter in the informal session. Do any members wish to comment on the matter in the open session?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19307,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 19307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 638443,
      "EditedText": "The committee should suggest to the Executive that it might be desirable to amend section 28(1) of the bill to ensure that commencement orders are laid before the Parliament. That would enable this committee and the lead committees to consider both interim commencement orders or commencement orders within the full provisions of the act.The committee would also be wise to consider its own standing orders, although that is a more general issue that we might want to examine in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 19307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 638446,
      "EditedText": "Can I raise a point? Section 9(5) of the bill says:\"The Scottish Ministers may lend sums to the Keeper on such terms and conditions as they may determine\".I do not understand why we are lending the Keeper of the Registers of Scotland money. Surely we do not lend money to someone like that.That section struck me as odd when I read it. Would we lend money to the Keeper of the Registers of Scotland if he had to move because he needed a bigger building? That does not make sense to me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 19307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 638452,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:29."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Dental Practice Board Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/52)",
      "HeadingID": 19300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638426,
      "EditedText": "We should hold with our view and draw to the attention of the Parliament that the regulations should not contain unnecessary provisions. There is no benefit from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)<br />National Health Service (General Ophthalmic Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/55)",
      "HeadingID": 19302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ID": 19302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 638428,
      "EditedText": "We will deal with the health service regulations collectively. We flagged up various matters with the Executive last week and have received a response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)<br />National Health Service (General Ophthalmic Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/55)",
      "HeadingID": 19302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ID": 19302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 638429,
      "EditedText": "A number of the regulations have been amended on several occasions. The point we raised with the Executive was that if regulations were being amended, say, more than five times, it might be appropriate for them to be consolidated, for ease of reference for people who are considering the statutory instruments and for the legal profession as a whole. We should include in our report that there should be a general principle that regulations are updated when they have been subject to amendment more than five times.Given that the Scottish Parliament is only recently established, it may set a ground rule for new Scottish regulations that will be easier for us, and everyone else in the country, to access. We should note in our report the responses from the Executive, which say that it takes on board some of the points that we have made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Act 1999 (Fund-Holding Practices) (Transfer of Assets, Savings, Rights and Liabilities and Transitional Provisions) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/56)",
      "HeadingID": 19303,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 19303,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 638435,
      "EditedText": "I agree. Is it the view of the committee that we say that the drafting is defective, irrespective of why the Executive has come to that? Members are agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Glasgow) Designation Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/59)",
      "HeadingID": 19304,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 19304,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 638437,
      "EditedText": "There has been a full response and acknowledgement of the points that were made by the committee. The committee sought an explanation on three matters. Following the advice we received today, I suggest that the order should be reported to Parliament on the grounds of defective drafting. Its meaning could be clearer, especially in relation to invalid notices.It should be considered that there has been an unexpectedly narrow use of the powers conferred, particularly in relation to the Executive's response to the second question that we raised, which is why there is no equivalent provision to permit an alleged owner of a vehicle to challenge the enforcement of an invalid parking ticket. In response to that, the Executive referred to existing protection available to those against whom decrees are enforced under the common law and the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987. It would be helpful if the Executive could explain which existing protection it is referring to as being available under the common law, and whether in particular it is the remedy of obtaining a suspension and interdict of a charge from the Court of Session. If so, there might be issues that the committee wishes to pursue about the expense of such a remedy in relation to the cost of a parking ticket. It might be around two or three thousand times more expensive to go to the Court of Session than to pay the parking ticket.Secondly, under the Debtors (Scotland) Act 1987, which powers are they referring to? They might want to look at that again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Dental Practice Board Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/52)",
      "HeadingID": 19300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638425,
      "EditedText": "We raised our views with the Executive on the drafting intentions and how we felt that matters should be defined and it has tried to explain its position. We have advice from the legal advisers. Does anyone wish to comment on the satisfaction of this matter and what steps we should take regarding it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Dental Practice Board Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/52)",
      "HeadingID": 19300,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19300,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638427,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee agree? That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)<br />National Health Service (General Ophthalmic Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/55)",
      "HeadingID": 19302,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ID": 19302,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 638430,
      "EditedText": "Cost has been flagged up but it is more important that the regulations can be read. We should comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Act 1999 (Fund-Holding Practices) (Transfer of Assets, Savings, Rights and Liabilities and Transitional Provisions) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/56)",
      "HeadingID": 19303,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 19303,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 638433,
      "EditedText": "We have legal advice on our points relating to defective drafting. Although they were answered, there are other aspects of the defective drafting that do not appear to have been adequately dealt with. Does anybody wish to comment on that? Matters are canvassed in the briefing from the legal advisers, which discusses defective drafting in relation to the terminology and definitions and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Glasgow) Designation Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/59)",
      "HeadingID": 19304,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 19304,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 638436,
      "EditedText": "We have a full report from our legal officers in relation to the matters we raised with the Executive on the last occasion. Does anybody have any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Glasgow) Designation Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/59)",
      "HeadingID": 19304,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 19304,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 638438,
      "EditedText": "The lead committee might want to look at that as a substantive issue, on the basis that there has been an unexpectedly narrow use of the power."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Glasgow) Designation Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/59)",
      "HeadingID": 19304,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ID": 19304,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 638439,
      "EditedText": "We have managed to express our views on that. Thank you for your contribution, Fergus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (City of Glasgow) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/60)",
      "HeadingID": 19305,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 19305,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 638440,
      "EditedText": "There appear to be lacunae here, and difficulties regarding information relating to appeals. Does Fergus wish to comment on this instrument in addition to the last one? Our legal advice suggested that there was a gap in the legislation concerning acknowledgement of the extension of time limits for appeals.We thought that it was important for appellants to be made aware of the decision to extend the time limit and that they should not merely rely on the good graces and good offices of the people who administer the scheme. The Executive appears to accept that it might be better to include an express provision in the regulations. Do members agree that it might be important and appropriate for us to flag up the matter to the lead committee? That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Educational Development, Research and Services (Scotland) Grant Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/65)",
      "HeadingID": 19306,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ID": 19306,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 638441,
      "EditedText": "We have only one new matter—SSI 1999/65. As this all-singing, all-dancing item of legislation should not cause us any problems, shall we allow the instrument to proceed without any adverse comment? That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 19307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 638444,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Bristow. It is important to make the point that if commencement orders are not laid before Parliament, as is constituted in the standing orders, we will not know that they have been brought into effect. That might create a democratic deficit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 19307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 638445,
      "EditedText": "Okay, we have managed to flag up that issue. We seem to have got through matters speedily."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 19307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 638447,
      "EditedText": "That is a policy matter and would have to be considered by the Finance Committee. I can only assume that as the Registers of Scotland now has agency status, any such money would be short-term, up-front funding. Perhaps we could flag up that point to our colleagues on the appropriate committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 19307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 638448,
      "EditedText": "It just sounded odd that we would lend money to the Keeper of the Registers of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 19307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 638449,
      "EditedText": "He might need change for the Coke machine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 19307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 638450,
      "EditedText": "The agency has already booked buildings and I am sure that the Government did not lend money towards that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3614
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19307,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 19307,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 638451,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5624705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 284503,
      "EditedText": "Okay, we will ask everybody to limit themselves to four pages. That will give us enough information to decide if we want to hear from them again.It was mentioned earlier today that the review is in-depth and technical. I am sure that we all appreciate that. It would help the committee if we had a special adviser to help us, particularly on the statistical aspects and the methodology behind the inquiry. I suggest that we ask Dr John Forbes from public health sciences at the University of Edinburgh, whom we met earlier today, to come back and assist us. I will have to make a formal request to the Parliamentary Bureau as there are implications in terms of cost. We will make a notification in the press that we are instigating an inquiry. The clerks and I will put together a press release, which will be made available to all of you for your comments. It will cover the points that we have discussed in the public part of our meeting today and will take note of the fact that the work that we are to do is important and is the committee's first substantial piece of work.  Over the next week, I will endeavour to talk to members of the committee about what questions we will put to the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 284509,
      "EditedText": "I will raise that at the meeting of the conveners committee this afternoon as well as the question of the resourcing of committees that we talked about last week. I take Ben Wallace's point that, if we had been scanning our papers some weeks ago, we would have seen that these SSIs were on their way. It does not take a brain surgeon to work out that the National Health Service (General Dental Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No.2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/51) will have to come before the Health and Community Care Committee. We are not being given enough notice that the SSIs are coming to us, although they might have been around for several weeks. It would be good if we were notified of instruments that might come before us when they are lodged. I am sure that some of the other conveners will have had similar problems, so I will raise the matter in the conveners committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 7523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 284497,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 12:40"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 284501,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that everyone who gives evidence should be restricted to four pages."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 284504,
      "EditedText": "I would like to be more prepared than I have been for our meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 284505,
      "EditedText": "You are not at fault, Mary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 284510,
      "EditedText": "We need to know which instruments have to be seriously scrutinised and which should simply be passed. I cannot make that distinction and I do not have the time to read through all of the instruments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 284512,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:53."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 284498,
      "EditedText": "Although we have been in private session for a considerable time, I now bring this meeting of the Health and Community Care Committee to order. We have received formal apologies from Kay Ullrich and Margaret Jamieson.Earlier today, we considered the Arbuthnott report, \"Fair Shares for All\", the national review of resource allocation for the national health service in Scotland. It is a fundamental report and it is important that we all ensure that the available resources are spent wisely, fairly and equitably throughout Scotland.In this, the formal part of our meeting, I want to put on record our thanks to Sir John Arbuthnott and other members of his committee and expert team for coming here to share their insight into the thinking behind the national review. The committee intends to examine elements of that review in greater detail during the next few weeks and, in time, to make a submission of our views to the Executive within the consultation period, which will take us into mid-November. As a committee, we must examine certain elements of the report and decide what we will do about our inquiry into the Arbuthnott report. First, we must consider and discuss the terms of reference of our inquiry. I have a list of suggestions that is based on our discussions earlier this morning and I hope that it will be acceptable to members. We must consider the methodology of the review; its on-going monitoring and updating, including its flexibility and the responsibility for the monitoring process; the quality and availability of data, both for the review and in general, and how that quality can be improved in future; further work in a number of areas; and some of the effects of the proposals and the way in which they interface and link with other parts of \"Designed to Care: Renewing the National Health Service in Scotland\", with special reference to the acute services review. Do members agree to that list of terms of reference for undertaking our review of the work of the Arbuthnott committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 284499,
      "EditedText": "That is excellent.The second question on which we must decide is the proposed timetable for reporting on the Arbuthnott report. As discussed earlier, the only possible change to that timetable is the date on which we are due to hear evidence from the Minister for Health and Community Care. That date is not finalised; we may see Susan Deacon on 6 October, but that is subject to change at my discretion. If there is a change, I will inform committee members as soon as I can.Is the timetable acceptable to the committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 284500,
      "EditedText": "The third matter is the list of witnesses from whom we may want to gather evidence. Such a wide-ranging review as this impinges on a range of key players in the health service. I suggest that we ask a series of people and organisations to submit written evidence. Members of the committee will then decide from whom we would like to hear evidence in public. I suggest that we hear from the chief medical officer, the chief scientific officer and Professor Sir John Arbuthnott, whom we should ask to comment on the methodology of his report and specifically on those areas in which data collection could have been improved. We should also ask Professor Arthur Midwinter to give us further written submissions, as well as Dr Alastair Leyland of the University of Glasgow's public health research unit, Richard Copland, director of information and statistics at the Common Services Agency, and Dr Helen Zealley in her capacity as chairperson of the Directors of Public Health Group. We should invite submissions from Pat Frost, acting director of the NHS Confederation in Scotland, from Jim Divine of Unison and from representatives of the Royal College of Nursing and the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations—whose member organisations should also be asked to make submissions. We hope to hear from members of the management executive of the NHS, but that will happen alongside the meeting with the minister.Patients' views will obviously be paramount at all times, so we will therefore want to hear from Pat Dawson of the Scottish Association of Health Councils. We hope to hear the trust view from Mr Jim Currie, chairman of the Trusts Chief Executives Group, and the view of general practitioners from Dr Colin Hunter of the Royal College of General Practitioners.We would also like to receive written evidence from all 15 health boards. The evidence will be limited to four pages from each health board and will deal with certain spheres, rather than being a free-for-all. We will ask them to give us their views on the impact that the review could have on plans and services and on the interface with the acute services review. We will ask them to give us their opinions on the possibility of improving data collection and the information strategy and development aspect of the health service, particularly focusing on communities. We want them to comment on the methodology that is used in the review. There will be an option for them to include any other comments but we would like that section to be brief.Does anyone have any comments on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 284502,
      "EditedText": "Is that the view of the committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 284506,
      "EditedText": "I realise that, but a bundle of statutory instruments arrived on my desk this morning. The accompanying information says that guidance to the committee on how to deal with them will follow once it has been finalised. I would appreciate some guidance soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 284507,
      "EditedText": "I will ask for that guidance to be delivered as soon as possible. We also require a general briefing on Scottish statutory instruments. We have requested that before and I will raise the matter again at the conveners committee this afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 284508,
      "EditedText": "The dates on the SSIs are already out of sync. I asked the clerk last week if any were in the system and she said that the Executive had told her that there were not. However, these SSIs were laid before the Parliament on 10 September. Either the Executive is fudging the date or we are not getting the SSIs through the system in time for us to consider them. A lot of them are detailed and are not effective and a lot of them pertain to Westminster legislation but this committee deserves the time to be able to consider them properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1684
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 284511,
      "EditedText": "Leave the matter with me. I will try to get guidance to you as quickly as possible and will make the point that we are not able to scrutinise documents properly if we get them at the last minute. However, at least this time we have the documents several days early—last time I was given a document 15 minutes before a committee.Thank you for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5985,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5985,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Hugh Henry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 232201,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon and welcome to this meeting of the European Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 232208,
      "EditedText": "I confess that I had rather expected the financial value of the programme to be known before now, bearing in mind that we have little more than a month to submit the plan to the European Commission. I would expect to have established the value of the new Scottish objective 3 programme within the next 10 days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 232214,
      "EditedText": "On the definition of the short-term unemployed in the plan, I mentioned the statistic that, in relation to the proportionate resources that we have, most people come off the register within six months. Therefore, the focus for the short-term unemployed would be on the six to 12-month unemployed. I briefly mentioned—but probably have not highlighted it as much as I should have done—that our intention is to pick up the longer-term unemployed under priority 2, addressing social inclusion. That will enable us to target them more effectively and to target sufficient resources and associated support services where that client group has particular needs. The focus of priority 1 is a preventive approach, to prevent people falling into the long-term unemployment category and becoming excluded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 232215,
      "EditedText": "In terms of social exclusion and equal opportunities, one of the major barriers to women re-entering the work force remains child care. To what extent are European social fund moneys linked to national strategies, such as child care partnerships? Can Heather give us an assurance on how those two programmes are linked?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 232229,
      "EditedText": "I would not go so far as to say that there is a written document, but we know what resources we have put into European social fund projects in the past and what outputs they have delivered. Once we have established how much expenditure we have to play with, it should not be too difficult to make a reasonable assessment of the outputs, targets and indicators.The real problem for the plan team is that demand for ESF under the new objective 3 will substantially exceed the expenditure available. We will not have particular trouble with match funding, because the range of partners includes further and higher education institutions, local authorities, the Scottish Enterprise network and the voluntary sector, all of which are able to contribute match funding. Indeed, over the years during which the social fund has been in operation, match funding has not usually been a significant problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 232231,
      "EditedText": "It is not much of a problem in relation to objective 3, compared with other programmes—I think that I know which programme you are thinking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 232233,
      "EditedText": "We have to quantify all the elements and target groups in the programme. We need to refer to relevant research and, as part of the consultation process, to sound out key partners about what would be realistic targets and where we should focus the resources.The types of activities that you mention are not just picked up in one part of the plan. You mentioned priority 4 because I mentioned community businesses, but we have included capacity building with a community development slant to address social exclusion and the entrepreneurship part of the same priority 4. We want to encourage those who would fall into socially excluded groups to be more entrepreneurial and to take up opportunities in self-employment, for example. That point is taken on board, but actual targets are part of the exercise to which we referred earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 232238,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but will you be able to measure that, because of the programme, there are 120,000 new businesses instead of 100,000?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 232253,
      "EditedText": "Youngsters at that age are very conscious of their gender; we have to overcome that when we advise them on career choices.I notice that you also said that transport difficulties would be taken into account. I know that that does not cover the Highlands and Islands, where transport is a particular problem—I dare say the same applies in other rural areas—but perhaps young folks cannot access the new deal because there is no public transport to enable them to travel the necessary 12 or 20 miles. How do you propose to help?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 232256,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 232259,
      "EditedText": "The drift of Allan's question and other similar ones reflects a concern that, unless you can tell us what you intend to achieve, and unless we are able to measure what is achieved, the whole process will be wide open, and you could say that whatever you achieved was a success."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 232261,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to talk about targets at this stage, because I am sure that, if the US economy goes into meltdown, the targets will go to hell. I am not sure that we can tell very much from them because of all the outside influences and environmental concerns that will come to bear. I am struggling with some of this—simplification is the answer for me. I cannot get my head around the paradoxes, in terms of what is happening under objective 3 as compared with objective 2. Throughout the background analysis on objective 3, indicators tell us that the Scottish gross domestic product remains consistently below UK levels, that the increase in self-employment rates is low compared with that in the UK and that there are issues where, in comparison with the UK, we are not doing well. However, I understand that, in the objective 2 process—which will drive much of the objective 3 process—Scotland will suffer fairly badly compared with England because of Scotland's supposed relative wealth compared with areas of England. I cannot square that circle, although perhaps there is a way of doing so. In a paper that came to an earlier committee meeting on European structural funds—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 232266,
      "EditedText": "That helps."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 232268,
      "EditedText": "I have one final question—it has nothing to do with objective 2, I assure you. The Scottish plan is set in the community support framework for objective 3. How does that link into the UK national plan? That is what I cannot understand. I know that we are still to receive the UK national plan—we have asked for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 232269,
      "EditedText": "The UK national employment action plan is a response to the EU's annual guidelines, which are published and available. If members wish to see it, I am happy to arrange for it to be submitted to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 232272,
      "EditedText": "I can find where the anchors are now. Thank you, David."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 232282,
      "EditedText": "When you say that the memorandum is not yet received, Stephen, does that mean that it is not yet available? Has it been published yet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5987,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 232285,
      "EditedText": "It is the Westminster recess and the time that Whitehall is taking to produce the documents. Usual practice would be for documents to be available within 10 days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 232286,
      "EditedText": "It is my understanding that, if this committee wants a copy of a specific Commission communication, we just have to ask for it. I am asking for this one in particular."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 232288,
      "EditedText": "I do not have it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5987,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 232295,
      "EditedText": "I remind members that, as a paper-saving measure, where no further action is to be taken on a document, copies are not sent out. If members want copies, however, they can be provided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
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      "ID": 5987,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 232299,
      "EditedText": "Does that first one concern genetically modified food?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232302",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 232302,
      "EditedText": "Stephen, can you advise us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 232305,
      "EditedText": "Hold on for a minute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 232309,
      "EditedText": "I have to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 232312,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232315",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 232315,
      "EditedText": "Let us take it one at a time; that will be easier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232318",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 232318,
      "EditedText": "I will certainly provide Dr Ewing with any documents that she needs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 232319,
      "EditedText": "Maybe the Hamilton South by-election has taken my mind off things."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 2029,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 232321,
      "EditedText": "For document 317, the recommendation is to await the explanatory memorandum and consider the document at our next meeting. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232324",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
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      "Name": "European Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 232324,
      "EditedText": "For document 330, the recommendation is that no further action be taken. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232333",
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      "ContributionID": 232333,
      "EditedText": "Stephen, can you advise us about that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C232334",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
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      "EditedText": "I cannot tell you off the top of my head."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232335",
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      "ID": 2029,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 232335,
      "EditedText": "Shall we come back to document 331 at the next meeting?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232336",
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      "ID": 1333
    },
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      "Name": "European Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 232336,
      "EditedText": "For document 332, the recommendation is for no further action. Is that agreed? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232337",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 232337,
      "EditedText": "Is there a misprint in the document title? It refers twice to the Republic of South Africa."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232350",
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      "ID": 1333
    },
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2029,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 232350,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean how does the European investment fund relate to the European Investment Bank?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232354",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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    },
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 232354,
      "EditedText": "For document 338, the recommendation is for no further action. Is that agreed?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232355",
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      "ID": 1333
    },
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      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 232355,
      "EditedText": "Might the Transport and the Environment Committee be interested in heating systems for the passenger compartment of motor vehicles?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232357",
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 232357,
      "EditedText": "This is an environmental matter as much as anything. The Transport and the Environment Committee could have a wee squint at it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 232359,
      "EditedText": "Similarly, document 339, which is about the\"emission of gaseous and particulate pollutants\"should be referred to that committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 232360,
      "EditedText": "Okay. We will refer document 339 to the Transport and the Environment Committee for the interest of its members. This could be a way of getting back at that committee.For document 340, the recommendation is for no further action. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 232362,
      "EditedText": "This might be an important document for this committee to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 232363,
      "EditedText": "We will put document 340 on the agenda for the next meeting.For document 341, the recommendation is that no further action be taken. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 232365,
      "EditedText": "How bulky is the document, Stephen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 232369,
      "EditedText": "For document 342, the recommendation is for no further action. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 232371,
      "EditedText": "We need to get our own back on the Spanish fishermen one way or another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 232374,
      "EditedText": "No, I am concerned about pollution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 232375,
      "EditedText": "Being genuinely concerned about pollution, forest fires or whatever is one thing, but we are being asked to comment on a specific document. It is the document and not the general issue that we refer to other committees.Before we refer a document to another committee we should be sure that there is something in it for that committee to comment on. The environment committee will not engage in a general discussion on pollution or forest fires."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 232379,
      "EditedText": "We will agree to the recommendation. Winnie has asked for a copy.For documents 343 and 344, the recommendation is that no further action be taken. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 232380,
      "EditedText": "For document 345, the recommendation is for no further action. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 232382,
      "EditedText": "We will refer that to the Rural Affairs Committee.For document 346, the recommendation is for no further action. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 232384,
      "EditedText": "At the previous committee meeting, a consultation process was discussed. Members wanted a structured means of receiving material that would allow them to consider the key issues in relation to the European Union. We have drafted a set of terms of reference for the mailshot element of that process so that written evidence can be provided by respondents.We have begun to think about streamlining both the issues and the organisations that we would approach for informal briefings. We had an element of that this morning. Once the committee knows which issues to examine and has had informal briefings, it can decide how to investigate those issues. Other committees are beginning to think about rapporteurs as a way of exploring issues in greater detail and of having further deliberations with outside bodies. The paper sets out ideas about how the system of rapporteurs might function in the Scottish Parliament. Some committee members will be aware of how rapporteurs work in Europe, especially in the European Parliament or the Committee of the Regions. However, it is for the committee, not me, to decide that such a system would be a way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 232386,
      "EditedText": "Would the rapporteur report back to the committee as an individual or would there be any advantage in having a small group or sub-committee of members specialising in a subject? Such a group could be convened by the rapporteur to investigate the matter in question and then report back to the committee. In that way, rapporteurs would not be working on their tod, but would be speaking on behalf of a sub-committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 232387,
      "EditedText": "Both options are open to us. As Winnie and Irene will know, rapporteurs in the European system do individual research and present their findings to the committee for the committee to reject, accept or amend. The final product then becomes the responsibility of the committee. Committees can get through a significant amount of work in that way, with members taking an individual responsibility.On the other hand, we can do what Dennis suggested and have a group of members carrying out investigations. However, that would not be a formal sub-committee, because that would have to be raised with the bureau. For example, the Health and Community Care Committee has set up two sub-groups. Ben Wallace, Duncan Hamilton and I are on the first sub-group investigating smoking and we will return to the committee with a joint report. The other sub-group is considering community care and presumably the members of that group will divide up responsibilities between them.The committee should determine what its subject priorities are and then allocate work to committee members. If we feel that a number of members should examine a particular subject, so much the better. The presentation on structural funds has raised a number of questions about women, equal opportunities and long-term unemployment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 232388,
      "EditedText": "Flexibility is one of the keys to getting the matter right. We will have to mix and match how we go about our investigations, depending on the subjects that we examine. I am quite relaxed about what has been outlined in the paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5988,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 232391,
      "EditedText": "You have lost me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 232392,
      "EditedText": "I was told twice by Ms Oldfather that it was just a matter of a legal basis. One of the issues was forestry, which is a vital matter for Scotland. They do not change a legal basis in Europe—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
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      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 232394,
      "EditedText": "I know that we have gone past it, but I am asking a question about the legal basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 232402,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 232403,
      "EditedText": "I have another little comment on the use of rapporteurs. I notice in the briefing paper that there is a caveat:\"Nevertheless, with a reporter/rapporteur system there is a risk that the output of a committee's work could become more biased than it would otherwise have done. The ability of lobbyists to contact directly one responsible member of the committee may result in the work of that committee becoming more vulnerable to outside influence\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5988,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 232405,
      "EditedText": "I hope that we would have an understanding, if not a rule, in this committee that if a rapporteur is approached by a lobbyist, we have a frank declaration of that, so that we all know who is trying to influence us, directly or indirectly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 232407,
      "EditedText": "Dennis touched on a salient point, which is that when a rapporteur is attempting to produce a report, there will be limited parliamentary resources to rely on. When they are doing research, rapporteurs will have to go out and work with a range of organisations. We should have a procedure so that we know who the rapporteur is working with. For example, there are people in the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities who have done a lot of work on the subject of European structural funds who I am sure rapporteurs will want to talk to. There are people in the voluntary sector who would have a lot to contribute. Perhaps we should get some guidance for rapporteurs on how they engage others to assist them, because the last thing we want to do is transgress without realising it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 232410,
      "EditedText": "Dennis is obviously referring to lobbying companies and not organisations such as Friends of the Earth and Greenpeace, which may have a lobbying activity. It is a balancing act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 232413,
      "EditedText": "I am informed that the Standards Committee will consider the issue tomorrow. We need to be sure that we are operating under agreed procedures when we are working with someone who is—informally or formally—an adviser. We can appoint advisers to the committee with the agreement of the bureau, but we should get clarification about what advice rapporteurs can seek and whether they can appoint someone to work alongside them on an informal basis. It is not as clear as you might think, Bruce."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 232415,
      "EditedText": "I am not clear, convener. Are you saying that it is at the discretion of the committee to adopt that system? Is it right that we do not necessarily need to have a Parliament-wide system in which committees have a set approach? We could have different types of rapporteur systems. We have considered the European model, but there are others and it is at the discretion of the committee which model it chooses to adopt. I take on board Dennis's point, but we should be accessible to interest groups. Whether they hire PR firms to represent their interests is another matter. The Parliament should be accessible to and transparent in its dealings with civic Scotland. Those key questions apply to the whole Parliament, not just to individual committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 232420,
      "EditedText": "I have received an invitation, as the convener of the committee, to attend the opening of Scotland House in Brussels and to participate in a workshop during that visit to act as a rapporteur. The Parliamentary Bureau has approved that, but it is a matter of courtesy to keep the committee informed that I have received the invitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5989,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 232427,
      "EditedText": "What day is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5989,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 232428,
      "EditedText": "It is a Tuesday. Could you check your diaries and let the committee clerk know as soon as possible, please?Is anyone available next Tuesday to meet representatives from the Basque Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 232429,
      "EditedText": "Gora!"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 5989,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5989,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 232434,
      "EditedText": "So, it will be Margo and Winnie. We will try to arrange something, depending on what the Basque delegation's diaries are like. We have also been asked by the Parliamentary Bureau to decide whether we want to meet on Monday afternoons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 5989,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5989,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 232436,
      "EditedText": "I took the liberty of mentioning it, but I did not think that anyone would want to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 232444,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to help here with the questions that we may want to ask."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 232450,
      "EditedText": "I want a briefing note on that whole area. It is not just about the budget going up and down depending on the structural funds; it is about the fact that that sum is counted in the Scottish block."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 232451,
      "EditedText": "To help the clerk, what exactly do you want a briefing note on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 232452,
      "EditedText": "I want a briefing note on public expenditure, planning and additionality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 232455,
      "EditedText": "We will see what information we can get on that. Are there any other requests for briefings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 232456,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the timing of the next meeting. How firm is the date of the meeting with Jack McConnell on 19 October? I will try to make it, but it will be difficult. Was there any consultation with members of the committee before the date was fixed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 232202,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda this afternoon is a discussion of the objective 3 draft operational plan. To help us with our deliberations, we have invited Heather Koronka, from the Scottish ESF objective 3 partnership, and David Chalmers, from the Scottish Executive development department. I stress that this is an informal and factual presentation. Any questions on the content of the draft plan will not be considered here. The Minister for Finance, Jack McConnell, will brief the committee on that, hopefully on 19 October. I will come back to that later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 232205,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, David and Heather. I appreciate the constraints that were on you.Behind the welter of jargon there is a lot that is of direct relevance to communities and organisations throughout Scotland. You touched on some important objectives and policy initiatives that I am sure will be of interest to members and the communities they represent.I will ask a couple of questions to get the ball rolling. David, you suggested that improvements had still to be made to the document. What are they? When will the financial value of the programme be determined? Heather, where do the policy fields differ from the previous programme? Are you targeting geographically and sectorally in any way? There has been discussion about ensuring that European funding is targeted to the areas that are most in need, and that the targeting is also consistent with other objectives of the Executive and the Parliament.The other point that I took from this meeting—I would like to return to it later in the discussion—is that a lot of the information will be relevant to other committees, and practical opportunities arise from that. I would like to work out where we can assist in raising the awareness of those opportunities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 232206,
      "EditedText": "The plan team recognises that the plan is far from perfect. There are two areas that we must pay particular attention to.The first is that the plan is supposed to form a coherent whole. The analysis of labour market needs and of what was done rightly and wrongly under previous programmes must feed into the strategy, which in turn must feed into the priorities and measures. The plan team is not sure that all those connections have been made. The plan team has long experience of this sort of matter and has come to the right answers without necessarily demonstrating how it has come to those answers. We need to take another look at all the hooks and ensure that what emerges in the strategy responds to the labour market needs and analysis of previous programmes. The other area that needs further consideration is the horizontal priorities, such as equal opportunities and lifelong learning. The plan team is not satisfied that those have been fully integrated into the vertical measures. We need to go through each of the measures to determine how they will contribute to equal opportunities, lifelong learning, local initiatives and information technology. Those are the two areas to which the plan team will give specific consideration, with a view to tidying up the next version of the plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka (Scottish ESF Objective 3 Partnership): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 232204,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon. As time is tight and the committee might want to ask questions about detailed issues, I will keep my presentation on a relatively broad level by highlighting areas of likely interest.I will give a brief background to the plan, outline the objectives behind it and describe how they translate into priorities and measures for action. I will then talk about how we have arrived at where we are. The details of target groups and scope of activity have been helpfully laid out in the paper that has been circulated to committee members.The committee has had a detailed presentation on the Treaty of Amsterdam, which revises the Treaty on European Union and now includes a chapter on employment. That issue is now at the top of the European agenda and has had a knock-on effect in different ways. We now have a European employment strategy at EU level, which requires each member state to produce a national employment action plan. The plan sets the frame of reference for the European social fund and for employment in general. The preparation of ESF programmes from 2000 to 2006 will be based on the UK policy frame of reference, which informs all ESF interventions, and the community support framework, which informs the three operational objective 3 programmes. We are charged with producing the Scottish operational objective 3 programme, of which the committee has seen the draft plan.The plan has five vertical priorities which reflect the five key ESF policy fields for the new programming period across the EU and which will recur as I go through the plan's priority and measure structure. Those priorities are active labour market policies, inclusion, lifelong learning, adaptability and entrepreneurship and positive action for women.In addition to those five key themes, there are five horizontal measures—as we say in Eurospeak—which are sustainable development, equal opportunities, lifelong learning, support for local initiatives and the information society. We have to make sure that such measures are integrated in the plan.In putting the plan together, the plan team has had to translate the requirements of those key themes into an overall aim of supporting economic growth by contributing to sustainable development of a competitive economy with a flexible labour market and ensuring equal access to training, employment and income-earning opportunities.My next slide is not a test of members' eyesight; a full-size version of the diagram is attached to the hand-out that has been circulated. The five operational objectives have been translated into our overall aim and inform our priorities, which are the five key themes put into a Scottish-specific context.The plan is structured in terms of priorities and measures. The first priority—raising employability—addresses the theme of the active labour market at EU level. The aim of the priority is to reintegrate various unemployed target groups back into sustainable employment, allowing them to fulfil their potential and to move away from the risk of exclusion. In considering that theme, the plan team decided that three main groups needed to be targeted: the short-term unemployed, young people and the older unemployed. The majority of people leave the unemployment register within six months, so we need to focus on skill development and the accreditation of skills that those people already have. We want to increase the number of people with the skills that are required by the economy, so that it becomes more competitive. There are national schemes in place for young people, but the plan team felt that there were still many young people with little or no work experience who were becoming serially unemployed over a relatively short time. We need to assist 15 to 24-year-olds in developing skills for the work place. We must also take a preventive approach by addressing the needs of young people who have not yet left school.The objective for the older jobless is to help them back into secure employment through appropriate guidance, counselling and training. That focuses on the 40 to 50-year-olds. The needs of the over-50s and the longer-term unemployed are covered in our next priority, which addresses exclusion. The second priority addresses the theme of an inclusive society that is open to everyone. It is obvious that the priority complements current policy direction in terms of addressing exclusion at different levels. The plan team recognised that some disadvantaged groups tend to be geographically targeted in urban and rural communities. Two measures pick up on those geographically concentrated groups. We also recognised that that did not always happen and the thematic priority is designed to catch the groups that are not geographically targeted. The focus of the priority is on meaningful partnerships, which ties in with the aims of the social inclusion strategy. We would like all project sponsors to be able to demonstrate true partnership, both within and across partner agencies, in schemes that work towards those objectives.The thematic measure is designed to engage excluded individuals, raising aspirations and changing the perceptions of training held by groups such as the ethnic minorities, the disabled, the homeless, ex-offenders and young people leaving care. In terms of support targeted on urban areas and forging effective links between employment opportunities and areas of need, we are focusing on workless households, older long-term unemployed and people who are recovering from substance abuse, for example. We are trying to encourage flexible and innovative solutions for people in rural areas, where accessing transport can be a problem.Finally, the capacity building measure recognises the need to increase the number of organisations that are working towards tackling social inclusion at a local level and to improve the quality of support delivered to the target groups.The third priority is lifelong learning, which entails promoting employability skills and mobility through lifelong learning, as outlined in the briefing paper. Many initiatives have been launched in support of the lifelong learning agenda—for example, the Scottish university for industry and the national grid for learning, which will use new technology to increase access to learning. The ethos of individual learning accounts, in which individuals are encouraged to take responsibility for their own learning, complements those other initiatives.As members will know, lifelong learning is a horizontal theme, but this vertical priority picks up areas of activity where the plan team felt that further positive and focused support was needed. We are dealing with increasing the management skills in training organisations, which will increase organisations' ability to deliver training.There is a need to increase the technical skills that are available. We have reference services available but there is a need to put together the on-line systems and training delivery mechanisms to ensure that learning is accessible to the majority of people.Our fourth priority, which we call \"Towards a Competitive Economy\", picks up the European theme of developing adaptability and entrepreneurship. Evidently, the competitiveness of the Scottish economy is a strategic aim of the overall programme, but it is important to harness the skills base in the Scottish labour market while trying to create a more entrepreneurial culture in which we will be able to concentrate on the creation of small and medium enterprises.We stress the importance of those issues by splitting the fourth priority into two parts—our contribution to the EU simplification strategy. In the first part, we have the competitive work force addressing lifelong learning and skills development. We want to raise awareness in companies about the value of training and development. We have split the vocational training that is required into three parts: basic, intermediate and higher level skills. That will allow the programmes to focus on target groups effectively.The basic skills category deals with the provision of transferable skills and knowledge and is aimed at improving people's employment prospects with the overall aim of preventing workers from becoming unemployed and unemployable.The intermediate category deals with flexibility in relation to craft-related occupations and with updating the skills of supervisors and technicians in relation to changes in information technology.The higher level skills category deals with technical and professional skills for higher level management in competitive small and medium enterprises and is a way of reinforcing managers' awareness of the importance of training to them and their work force.The second part of the fourth priority is entrepreneurship. Our aim is to create a more entrepreneurial culture in Scotland, to increase Scotland's business birth rate and to provide support to individuals who are engaged in the formation of new firms. To do that we need to address underperformance of the business start–up rate, promote and develop an enterprise culture, establish networking events and encourage promotional activity.We aim to increase the number of new and sustainable companies in Scotland by supporting community businesses and getting people into self-employment through the provision of support, advice and training.The fifth—and final—priority is addressing gender imbalance. This is a horizontal and a vertical theme. The plan team is keen thoroughly to mainstream equal opportunities in the plan. Equality of opportunity is top of the EU agenda and is paramount in maintaining economic competitiveness. With regard to the priority of addressing gender imbalance, there are three measures that support positive action. The first promotes positive action with regard to companies and individuals, by showing the benefits of addressing gender issues and gender imbalances, and implementing family-friendly policies. The second provides support to address gender imbalance in areas in which men or women are traditionally under-represented. It also aims to assist women to take up opportunities in higher-skilled or higher-paid areas. The final measure provides direct support to companies to improve their equal opportunities policies.The objective 3 partnerships are represented on a steering group, led by the Equal Opportunities Commission, that is putting together an equal opportunities toolkit to help all the plan teams in Scotland take on board equal opportunities issues and ensure that we mainstream equal opportunities across all the structural fund programmes.I hope that we can deal with detailed issues through questions, so, to finish, David mentioned that the draft plan has been developed in partnership. We had workshops as far back as April, with 250-300 people at them, to try to determine our outline strategy and to work out what we needed to do for what, effectively, is a seven-year employment plan for Scotland. We took what we learned from the partnership consultations to a strategy day for the plan team and put in place a strategic framework. We involved the partners that represent the objective 2, 3, 4 and 5b programmes, and examined the key themes, such as lifelong learning and sustainable development.We are coming to the end of our first stage consultation process. We are expecting responses from partners by 1 October. We need to consult again on the financial issues, but the plan needs to be with the Commission by the end of October.I am sorry that I went through that information so quickly, but I was keen to take the members of the committee through our priorities and measures, at least at a broad level."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 232211,
      "EditedText": "Does it not strike you as worrying that at this late stage, so close to the finalisation of the plan, which involves so many agencies who are aware of political priorities, that the team has to go back to ensure that equal opportunities are integrated sufficiently robustly? Surely whoever has been responsible for the plan should have been insisting on such integration at every stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 232213,
      "EditedText": "Priority one is to raise employability. I do not think that anyone argues with that aim. However, when Heather gave her presentation she listed the target groups as young people, older unemployed people and the short-term unemployed. She made no reference to the long-term unemployed. What is the definition of short-term? Is it six months, a year, or what? Why is there no specific reference to the longer-term unemployed? My fear is that they will become more and more excluded—socially as well as economically—unless they are prioritised in objective 3 spending."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232216",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 232216,
      "EditedText": "At the moment we are considering the policy context, but I already mentioned that in the detail of the plan, reference is made to both UK and Scottish initiatives on child care. The rationale for the priority of addressing gender imbalance is that that is an area of great need and one of the major barriers. Detailed statistics back up that claim. When we consider selection-scoring criteria and consider in more detail how we implement the programme, we must ensure—across all the priorities—that each target group gets the associated support services. That means child care across the board, especially when we target returners to the labour market. That comes under the priority of addressing gender imbalance. It is picked up in the plan, and we are aware that we must ensure that support services are in place for those target groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 232217,
      "EditedText": "I will ask one further question about the small and medium-sized sector. We know that Scotland has a low business birth rate and fewer small and medium-sized businesses per capita than in England and Europe. We have been asking for some time whether targets are in place. How are we measuring whether the money that we are putting in is successfully tackling the problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 232218,
      "EditedText": "I know that the Scottish Enterprise network has set itself targets for the number of new businesses to be formed by 2000. They were set three or four years ago. Other than that, I am not aware how that is being taken forward. In the context of the plan, we must provide targets associated with each of the individual priorities. One of those targets will be the number of new businesses created. I do not deny that there are considerable difficulties in measuring the number of new businesses that are created—two basic measures are used. One uses new value added tax registrations and is, arguably, the more accurate, although it tends to miss out the large number of self-starting companies that are below the VAT threshold. The second way, which Scottish Enterprise set up with the banks, is to collect new commercial bank account openings. The problem with that is mainly that it is directed at the Scottish banks. I am not sure whether the English banks, some of which operate north of the border, are included yet. In answer to your question, there will have to be an annual target for the number of new businesses that are created, which will have to be shown in the plan for each year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 232221,
      "EditedText": "That is personal experience—it is on record.  Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 232224,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that you will give more money to the folk who need it most?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 232225,
      "EditedText": "That would be our intention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 232230,
      "EditedText": "Are you quite sure about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 232235,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. That is one of the lessons learned from previous structural fund programmes and it has been taken on board, as have many other aspects. The aftercare concept is reflected in the detail of the plan. We are talking about a follow-up of about six months' support for people who go into self-employment and for individuals who become employed. It is not only about getting individuals into employment, but about on-going mentoring schemes. That is a very fair point, and it has been made strongly to us throughout the consultation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 232237,
      "EditedText": "We will build on the awareness raising that we do and on the best practice information that we disseminate within the current objective 3 programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 232239,
      "EditedText": "Yes—in a sense it is a promotional issue; raising awareness of what the programme has actually achieved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 232240,
      "EditedText": "I meet many people who comment on all the European money that has been dispensed and want to know what has been achieved. You can produce a list of projects, but it is difficult to say that they have made a difference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 232241,
      "EditedText": "That comes back to the question that Irene asked about whether there would be targets and measurement of those targets, so that you could be held accountable. I think that you said yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 232243,
      "EditedText": "You certainly said yes earlier on; have you changed your mind?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 232244,
      "EditedText": "I must point out that it is very difficult to disentangle the impact of the European structural fund programme from happenings in the general economy. Arguably, the overall economy has far more impact in terms of the number of new businesses created and the levels of employment than anything that the European social fund might do. That does not mean that we do not have to measure what we are setting out to achieve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 232245,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That was the question that was being asked, and you said that you would be measuring."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 232248,
      "EditedText": "We need to provide special assistance—perhaps a higher level of assistance—to areas that are losing out on objective 2 or 5b status—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 232250,
      "EditedText": "The entire country, with the exception of the Highlands and Islands, can qualify for objective 3. It is a question of giving higher priority to the new objective 2 areas and a slightly lower priority to the transition areas, while the lowest priority will go to the areas that are not designated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 232255,
      "EditedText": "You could make a difference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 232262,
      "EditedText": "We will come back to the discussion on objective 2, as we should receive the Scottish Executive's statement soon. We also need to have a further discussion with the Minister of Finance on the points that he raised and that are referred to in the document that you mention, Bruce, as we need further clarification. I do not want this debate to trespass on to objective 2 matters—they must be kept separate. Remember that this is a briefing session and that we will have the opportunity to question the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 232264,
      "EditedText": "Well, no, Bruce. You are getting into an area about which we need to question the Minister of Finance. The officers are here to talk about the policy parameters in, and the strategic aims of, the draft programme, which is what we should be concentrating on. Your legitimate questions need to be addressed to Jack McConnell, along with further concerns about the paper that has been circulated. David, can you answer any of Bruce's questions just now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 232267,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to go into objective 2 any further now—this is complicated enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 232273,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we ensure that a copy of the document is submitted to SPICe in Parliament headquarters. If anyone wants a copy, they should speak to Stephen. At the start of the meeting, Heather, I asked about policy fields. Where would they differ from previously?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 232274,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean in terms of what was previously covered by current programmes?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 232277,
      "EditedText": "I thank both Heather and David for their contributions, which will help to inform us in the next stage of our discussion. The Scottish operational programme draft plan for objective 3 expenditure has also been circulated to other relevant committees for comment, which will be fed back to us once they have had a chance to consider it. There is also a longer-term issue. I do not consider our consideration to be a mechanical exercise. A lot of good information was presented by the witnesses and that could take back into many communities the debate on what funding might be accessed, on what kind of groups might receive support and on what kind of initiatives we could help to develop. I want to see how we can assist in making the programme effective throughout Scotland. No doubt, Heather and David, we will have further discussions with you in future. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 232280,
      "EditedText": "We are asking for the document to be considered at our next committee meeting. Can you clarify that, Stephen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5987,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 232290,
      "EditedText": "No, we do not have it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5987,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 232293,
      "EditedText": "I can provide Dr Ewing with a copy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 232298,
      "EditedText": "For document 310, the recommendation is to await the explanatory memorandum and consider the document at our next meeting. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 232300,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean document 298?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 232301,
      "EditedText": "I mean the one about health and the minimum standards for the treatment of products. Genetically modified food is a big issue at the moment and I wonder whether that is relevant in this case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 232304,
      "EditedText": "I am asking for another copy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 232306,
      "EditedText": "I seek clarification from the clerk. I have copies not of the explanatory memorandums but of the documents. Perhaps other committee members do not have them, but I certainly have a copy of document 310 on budgetary discipline. I was sent a copy of that—presumably by the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 232308,
      "EditedText": "Hold on, Winnie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232313",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 232313,
      "EditedText": "Winnie, Winnie, Winnie. One at a time, please."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 232316,
      "EditedText": "When the document first comes in and the explanatory memorandum is to be considered at the next meeting, we provide members with a copy. We will therefore have provided copies of the document in question at a previous meeting. When the item has been on the agenda two or three times, we will not provide another copy for each meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 232317,
      "EditedText": "I was provided with a copy earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 232320,
      "EditedText": "That is okay. Let us proceed. Do we agree to the recommendation on document 310?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 232322,
      "EditedText": "For document 328, the recommendation is that no further action be taken, but that a copy be sent to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee for interest. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 232323,
      "EditedText": "For document 329, the recommendation is that no further action be taken. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 232326,
      "EditedText": "Will document 330 be referred to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 232328,
      "EditedText": "Well, Russia has a mafia and a lot of people with business interests in Russia find themselves victims of that mafia. Some people from the north of Scotland—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 232329,
      "EditedText": "If someone can suggest some direct interest for the Scottish Parliament in the common action between the European Union and Russia on combating organised crime then, yes, we should refer that interest to the justice committee. However, until we identify any such interest, I suggest that we stick to the recommendation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 232332,
      "EditedText": "Does that involve privacy of data?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 232339,
      "EditedText": "For document 334, the recommendation is that it should be referred to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 232340,
      "EditedText": "In my opinion, this relates directly to elementary matters of Scots law. It involves a total change in the burden of proof. I am glad that it has been referred to this committee. It certainly places an arduous obligation on any manufacturer. A 10-year period—our views are asked on that—is a very long time indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 232341,
      "EditedText": "Is there a role here for the Justice and Home Affairs Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 232347,
      "EditedText": "We will consider document 335 for further information.For document 336, the recommendation is for no further action. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 232351,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 232356,
      "EditedText": "Do we know whether our vehicle manufacturers have a view on this? An external body may have a view on this that we should know. We have some vehicle manufacturers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 232366,
      "EditedText": "It has about 30 or 40 pages."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 232367,
      "EditedText": "We should put it on a future agenda, not so much for the purposes of the sift process, but to offer the consideration that Dennis is asking for. If something was of interest to the Scottish Parliament, we would be able to offer assistance, advice and support."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 232370,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that this document concerns Scotland much, although we have great forests. Forest fires have been a problem in the south of Europe, but the resulting atmospheric pollution and gas emissions affect us. Should not we refer this to the environment committee? We were blamed for damaging Norway's forests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 232372,
      "EditedText": "I did not mention the Spanish fishermen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 232376,
      "EditedText": "May I have a copy of the document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 232377,
      "EditedText": "Dr Ewing has asked for a copy of the document. Does the committee want to pursue this or to agree to the recommendation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 232383,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to item 3 on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 232389,
      "EditedText": "Just before I bring in Winnie, can we try to identify a range of topics that we would like considered, perhaps not for the next meeting, because I am aware that Jack McConnell will be speaking to us, but for the meeting after that? That is not to say that they will be the final topics, but members should tell Stephen what they are interested in, then we can start to decide what we can reasonably cope with, what the priorities should be, and who will co-operate on some of the topics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 232390,
      "EditedText": "When the legal basis of a subject is discussed in the European Union, that does not mean that one should not realise that the whole subject is a matter for discussion. To dismiss it and say that it is a question with a legal basis is fine, but the legal basis is not changed unless there is a need to change it in the terms of what the subject is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 232395,
      "EditedText": "We have finished that item. We have moved on to something different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 232397,
      "EditedText": "It is not on the agenda. The way the standing orders work—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 232398,
      "EditedText": "Well, I will put it on the agenda for the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232399",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 232399,
      "EditedText": "We can consider that, but it is not on the agenda for the meeting this afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 232400,
      "EditedText": "The legal basis is mentioned—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5988,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 232401,
      "EditedText": "Winnie, we have finished that part of the agenda and we have moved on. We have a report to discuss. I have asked that we agree that the consultation letter be circulated for comments. I have also asked members to identify what issues they think should be priorities for this committee so that we can incorporate them into the committee's future work. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 232404,
      "EditedText": "Dennis, I am sure that you can resist all temptation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5988,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 232406,
      "EditedText": "Dennis, if we buy you a drink, it is alright."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 232411,
      "EditedText": "That is what I mean: there is a fine line."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 232412,
      "EditedText": "It is all lobbying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232417",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 232417,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we use the system, because no minister is directly linked to the European Committee—as happens with the subject committees. When there are conferences and so on, a representative of the committee will be invited, but it is not for them to go in a personal capacity; they must bring back information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 232418,
      "EditedText": "The whole business of having a rapporteur who is going to tap into outside expertise needs to be set straight for the benefit of us all. It is perfectly all right to talk to someone as long as there is a record of who members have consulted and what ground was covered. We will need to talk to some people if we are going to monitor aspects of value for money in the new objective 3 programme. Some of the people we want to talk to will normally be paid for passing on information and we will not have a budget. What is in it for them? How will we get the best quality advice and information on which to base our reports?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 232421,
      "EditedText": "Who is arranging the Scotland week in Brussels?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 232422,
      "EditedText": "I think the Scottish Executive is. It has issued a number of invitations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 232423,
      "EditedText": "It is not Scotland Europa, then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 232430,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 232432,
      "EditedText": "The meeting will be in the morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 232433,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I will not be available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5989,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 232435,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 232439,
      "EditedText": "I think we should perhaps leave this agenda item, unless there are any specific requests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 232440,
      "EditedText": "We received a copy of a paper, dated 17 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 232441,
      "EditedText": "That is the paper to which I have already referred. Jack McConnell will attend the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 232447,
      "EditedText": "The chances of structural funds increasing in Scotland are fairly remote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 232449,
      "EditedText": "It is a valid point, but let us wait to see what the settlement is. If the problem arises, we will investigate it. There is no point doing so now. We have enough on our plate without getting into areas of theory. Bruce, if you think that a briefing note would help, we will ask for one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 232453,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean how European funding and the Scottish block work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 232454,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. That will be an issue not only for this committee, but for the Finance Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 232457,
      "EditedText": "That was the date that was suitable for the minister. It is not particularly convenient for me either. We can certainly ask if there are any other days on which he is available, although the indication was that that was the only one. Who is available on 19 October? Seven of us are available. I think that we will need to run with that date unless something untoward happens. The only other option would be to see whether the minister is available later that week, but that may cause other problems. I am informed that there is also an issue about having the time once we have met the minister to turn our comments round and pass them to the Executive, in time for the deadline in Brussels."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 232458,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to make war with the minister, but the problem of ministers' availability not matching that of members was also raised at the Health and Community Care Committee. Ministers may not quite invite themselves to committees, but often the date on which they are available does not fit in with the committee's work. Do we have the power to summon ministers to a committee? Perhaps that could be clarified at the conveners meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 232459,
      "EditedText": "We said that we wanted Jack McConnell to speak to us about objective 3 funding as soon as possible. He is trying to accommodate that request. If we had asked for an early date, the difficulty would have been that we would not have had the documents to allow us to give the matter proper consideration. We therefore agreed to delay the meeting, which put it back to the second week of the recess. The minister suggested the Tuesday. We went with that, because that is the day on which the committee tends to meet, but we can suggest another date to him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 232460,
      "EditedText": "If the minister was available for the meeting the following Tuesday, would that interfere with the timetable for us getting our thoughts into the decision-making machinery?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
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      "ID": 5990,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 232463,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5985,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 232200,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:14"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 232209,
      "EditedText": "Before I bring in Dennis Canavan, I want to return to your remarks about integrating the horizontal priorities, specifically equal opportunities, into the vertical measures. Given the emphasis on equal opportunities in Europe and here, it is striking that you feel that they have not been given adequate attention. Surely something like equal opportunities should be absolutely fundamental to everything that is done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers (Development Department, Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 232203,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon. I will begin by introducing myself and my colleague. Heather Koronka is the programme director for objective 3 and the member of the plan team that has prepared the document that is before the committee today. I am from the European social fund branch of the Scottish Executive development department. I am convener of the Scottish objective 3 and objective 4 committees. More relevant for your purposes today, I am convener of the Scottish objective 3 plan team.With your permission, convener, I propose to ask Heather to provide the committee with a brief outline of the plan and its strategic context. Before doing so, it may be helpful if I preface her presentation with some preliminary remarks. After the presentation, I suggest that we discuss some of the emerging issues relating to the plan.Even though I am the convener of the plan team, the draft plan is not a Scottish Executive document. It has been prepared by and remains in the ownership of the objective 3 plan team. The plan team comprises representatives of the key partners, which include the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the Scottish enterprise network, the voluntary sector, the Scottish Council of National Training Organisations, the further and higher education sectors and the Equal Opportunities Commission—with occasional additional participation by the Scottish Trades Union Congress, the Confederation of British Industry for Scotland and the Scottish Council Development and Industry.The plan team has been meeting since February, mostly fortnightly, to develop the plan. That has entailed a massive commitment of time and effort from the individuals involved, particularly as we all have proper jobs as well. I want to put on record my appreciation of the constructive and assiduous way in which the team has engaged with its task.Over the next month, the plan will be formally submitted to ministers of the Scottish Executive. When Mr McConnell comes before the committee on 19 October, he will discuss the Executive's objective 3 plan.I should say that at present the plan is a draft and incomplete. I appreciate that the committee would have preferred to see a complete version; I apologise that our timetable was such that that was simply not possible. After it had thrashed out the priorities and measures for the plan, the plan team considered that it was appropriate to seek the views of the wider partnership, even though we had not yet developed the accompanying financial tables. The plan team recognises not only that the plan is incomplete, but that improvements need to be made. I will be happy to explore those if we have time.Nevertheless, I am satisfied that the broad strategy of the plan is about right. If we wanted to have meaningful consultation with the wider partnership, the plan had to be brought into the light of day.I offer a further caveat. The draft plan has been written with one audience in mind—directorate-general V of the European Commission. It has not been written with a view to telling a general audience or even the wider partnership what we propose to do with European social fund assistance. The composition and structure of the plan follow the various pieces of guidance that we have had from DG V and the result is not a particularly reader-friendly document.Finally, I should perhaps pre-empt one of the committee's first questions by saying something about the financial value of the proposed programme. The amount to be allocated to the new programme has yet to be finalised. Scottish Executive ministers and Scotland Office ministers, acting in co-operation, are still discussing with their Whitehall counterparts the Scottish share of the UK allocation under objective 3. That UK allocation is more than €4.5 billion. Whatever the outcome of the negotiations between ministers, it is clear that we will have less European social fund expenditure under the new programme than is available through existing programmes. That reflects the overall reductions in structural funds expenditure.As a result, we need to maximise the impact of ESF in the new programme, which is why we have put so much effort into designing and developing the plan before the committee today. I will now ask Heather to give her presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 232207,
      "EditedText": "Can you please answer the other question: when will the financial value of the programme be determined?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 232210,
      "EditedText": "That is why some of the measures need to be re-examined. If one looks at some of the measures in the plan, it can be seen that they include a description of the activities that will be involved and of the target population. Frequently, however, there is no mention of equal opportunities or gender imbalance, for example. We need to go back to ensure that equal opportunities are fully horizontally integrated into all the measures of the plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 232212,
      "EditedText": "In an ideal world that would have been the case, but the fact remains that I am not sure that we did. That is why the plan team wants to have another look. We want to ensure that we have fully integrated the horizontal priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 232219,
      "EditedText": "It is easy to talk about employability, adaptability, entrepreneurship and equal opportunities, but there must be targets, so that we can measure whether the plan is providing value for money. That is important in the whole plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 232220,
      "EditedText": "We are shy about discussing this area, because it concerns the black economy. When people open their first account after going into business, they do not open a business account. People do not live like that—we should introduce some realism."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 232222,
      "EditedText": "I am talking about people I know. Nobody is blaming the Scottish Executive for this. Italy managed beautifully without a plan such as this. We want value for money, so perhaps there could be a couple of wee sectional and geographical pilot projects. What will be judged is employment and consumer spend. I suggest that we think about judging the matter from another angle.Dennis Canavan talked about exclusion. I am not sure about the priorities, as I thought that the main priority was to get to the folk who are increasingly being classified as the underclass and whose children are stigmatised for being from two or three generations that have not worked. That should be better defined as a priority. How much money will be spent on it? I appreciate that we cannot quantify the exact sum, because we do not know the global figure, but how is the amount that is spent on social exclusion and the employability of folk who have been unemployed for only six months worked out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 232223,
      "EditedText": "Because of the policy superstructure to which Heather referred—the national employment action plan, the European Union employment strategy, the EU guidelines and the regulation itself—we are relatively restricted in the main priorities that the programme can adopt. In other words, the Commission is saying that it will provide structural funds for matters such as social exclusion, employability and—if you like—the underclass, but that it wants us to organise our programme in such a way that the five priorities correspond to the five policy fields in the regulation, which in turn can be traced back to the four pillars of the EU employment strategy. Having said that, it is extremely difficult to assess how much should be spent on one priority rather than another. The plan team has had discussions on how we allocate the finance down to priorities and measures. As you will appreciate, it is difficult to complete those discussions without knowing the total value of the programme. I can provide you with a flavour of the plan team's thinking. First, we have acknowledged that priority 5 on equal opportunities and priority 3 on lifelong learning will be horizontal priorities, spread throughout the programme. There is perhaps less need to devote substantial resources under the relevant vertical priorities, not least because neither of those priorities will involve volume training, if I may put it like that. We will need to spend substantially more on priority 4, on the competitive work force and entrepreneurship, than on priorities 3 and 5. However, the largest spenders are likely to be priority 1, on active labour markets, and priority 2, on social exclusion. In finalising the proposed allocations, the plan team will need to balance need and opportunity, as well as taking account of the strategic and policy context that Heather and I have discussed briefly. I hope that that is helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232226",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
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    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 129
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 232226,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of questions. If I have understood you correctly, the plan team will work out the priorities on which the money should be spent. Is there a matching funding element, and have you made an assessment of where that funding will come from?My second question follows on from what Irene said. The indicators and targets for all the measures proposed in the document are said to be\"the subject of a separate indicator, targeting and monitoring review\".Does that have to be in place by the end of October, when you have to submit the plan to the Commission? How will you achieve that? The point that Irene was making is that measurement is important to assess the progress that is being made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 232227,
      "EditedText": "The answer to the second question is a definitive yes. Before we can submit the plan to the Commission at the end of October, we must undertake a detailed exercise to work out performance indicators and targets, and how we will measure what we propose to deliver through the programme. I hope that that assuages some of the committee's concerns about measurement. This is a phased process, and the draft plan is the first element."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C232228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 232228,
      "EditedText": "Has the methodology already been worked out? Is there a written document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 232232,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to ask a question about priority 4:\"Supporting A Competitive Workforce And Developing Entrepreneurship\".I was pleased to hear you mention community businesses as part of that. I have a particular concern about areas in which there has been long-term unemployment and where the infrastructure is not as good as in other places. To create sustainable jobs, we might have to look towards supporting and developing what already exists in communities. Have any targets been set for the percentage of funding that might be allocated to supporting community businesses, co-operatives or the social economy? Can you give me some feedback on how a kind of social entrepreneurship might progress?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 232234,
      "EditedText": "May I respond to the point on self-employment? People who have gone down that route have said that the help that they get at the beginning is very useful—you know what I am going to say—but it is different a year or two down the line when they are struggling. Will there be any recognition of that, particularly in areas where there has been a high incidence of social exclusion? Self-employment is not something that people jump into and are then able to manage within six months. Is any thought being given to a longer-term approach to sustaining people who choose that option?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 232236,
      "EditedText": "Heather, I would like to come back to the measures issue. The committee has discussed before the need for the public in Scotland to better understand the impact of the European Union and its funding on Scotland. I would like to be sure that the measures that you are putting in place will be capable of demonstrating that the programme has made a difference—not that so many new businesses have been created or that we have improved on equal opportunities; after all, the Executive has established targets for itself. How will you show that the programme has made a difference in any of those areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 232242,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 232246,
      "EditedText": "Convener, you asked a question earlier to which I did not respond. It concerned the geographical weighting that we might want to give in the programme. It might be helpful if I said a couple of words about that. As you might expect, the new objective 3 programme will have to take into account the new objective 2 areas. Bearing it in mind that the scope for programming European social fund expenditure in the new objective 2 programmes will be strictly limited—much more so than under the present objective 2 and 5b programmes—the new structural fund regulations require that the objective 3 resources should be concentrated on the new objective 2 areas.In addition, we believe that we will be able to have a measure of concentration of objective 3 resources in the areas that will lose objective 2 and 5b status—the so-called transition areas—which will benefit from transitional programmes. Those programmes will not contain any European social fund expenditure.We have to use objective 3 to pick up the losses in the new objective 2 and transition areas. It is difficult to come up with an adequate statistical rationale to reflect the different ESF needs of the new objective 2 areas, the transition areas and the non-designated areas. We believe that the numbers of unemployed people in the respective area categories are as good a measure as we are likely to get. Once we know the identity of the new objective 2 areas, we will need to reassess the position, but I wanted to assure the committee that appropriate provision will be made to ensure that the new programme will be focused on geographical areas of need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 232247,
      "EditedText": "On areas of need, you said that areas that are in need but do not quite qualify under the new objective 2 will still be eligible for assistance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 232249,
      "EditedText": "So that those areas can still qualify for objective 3?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 232251,
      "EditedText": "In the draft plan, schools are mentioned only as part of the equal opportunities strategy and in connection with raising employability. We know that equal opportunities issues arise in schools, particularly when children make the wrong subject choices with the result that they cannot access the employment that they had hoped for. That might happen because boys always choose the boys' subjects while girls always choose the girls' subjects. The plan mentions schools, so I assume that you will have some input to that subject. What are your proposals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 232252,
      "EditedText": "Two issues are involved. On employability, I mentioned that we would target young people who are about to leave school with a preventive approach. Along with effective mainstreaming of equal opportunities, that should encompass some attitudinal changes. The main focus, as Maureen Macmillan rightly said, will be within the equal opportunities strategy. We are about to include additional research, which is broken down by age and which monitors attitudinal change and where young people go in sectors where, traditionally, there is a gender imbalance. We are building that into the plan and considering what activities will be covered. On gender imbalance, we need to take a preventive and more proactive approach, rather than just addressing what has happened already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5986,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 232254,
      "EditedText": "In a sense, the earlier comments about appropriate support measures for target groups apply here. If project beneficiaries who are aged between 15 and 24 or people who are not on the schemes need extra help to access training, they will be eligible for ESF assistance.We are aware of difficulties in accessing transport in rural areas. I hope that by a combination of those two things that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 232257,
      "EditedText": "I want to make two points. The first one has been raised by the convener, Irene, Tavish and a few others, and relates to the measurement of achievements. There must be a starting point. To what extent are we able to pinpoint—from information on past successes or failures that we presumably have—where we are now and where we expect to be at the conclusion of the process? Small to medium enterprises are an example of where the Scottish economy is structurally weak. What is the starting point for them, and how are we to measure the success or failure rate of the programme?My second point concerns the division of strategic objectives 3 and 4. If the priority is to develop a culture of lifelong learning, should not objectives 3 and 4 be combined? That might seem like a tongue-in-cheek contribution to European simplification, but many people—including me—believe that the way to build a competitive economy is to develop the knowledge economy. If you are developing new systems and approaches for training, inevitably workplace training is included with all other forms of training, so the two objectives ought to be combined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 232258,
      "EditedText": "I will deal with your second point first. The distinction that the plan team has made between priority 3, which is lifelong learning, and priority 4, which is adaptability and competitiveness of the workforce, is that priority 3 is directed mainly at systems development and soft infrastructure, whereas priority 4 is directed at training the work force of the Scottish economy. I admit that the distinction is, to some extent, artificial, but we have organised it in that way so that we can include lifelong learning as a horizontal priority in approaching the competitive work force, while distinguishing between lifelong learning and competitiveness for the purposes of applicants. That is why we suggested that lifelong learning would not be concerned mainly with volume training, but would be geared much more towards systems development and soft infrastructure, as I said.Your question on measurement leaves me in some difficulty. In broad terms, at the simple level, we know where we are in the market needs analysis. There is much in the document about market needs, unemployment, sector breakdowns and so on. I do not see any major difficulty in having output targets that reflect the inputs that we will make. There are difficulties of definition and changes are taking place, but I do not see any difficulty in developing suitable indicators and targets that will enable us to measure our performance and that of the programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 232260,
      "EditedText": "I entirely agree with that. When the programme comes back to the committee, it will contain annual performance indicators and targets so that, at the end of the first year, we can look at it with the Commission and say, \"Well, our target was to achieve so many people into jobs or full-time education. This is what we actually achieved, compared with the target.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 232263,
      "EditedText": "I understand. My worry is that much of the objective 3 spending will be driven by what happens with the objective 2 maps. That is what David is telling us. There is a paradox somewhere. Perhaps you can explain that to me, David, and make it all lucid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 232265,
      "EditedText": "I will try not to infringe your ruling, convener. Broadly speaking, whatever happens on objective 2, the fact remains that, even though objective 2 coverage will be reduced in Scotland, a significantly greater proportion of our population will be covered by objective 2 than will be the case in England."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 232270,
      "EditedText": "Please."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Chalmers: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 232271,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid that it is a great, weighty document that is fairly general in terms of what it says about the way in which the UK Government approaches employment matters. Below that, there is a community support framework for objective 3, which describes the main priorities of the UK objective 3 operational programmes. Each programme will share the same main priorities. The document is fairly permissive. It does not restrict us in what we want to do. Members have our operational programme in front of them. In this, we are able to pick out what we regard as the Scottish priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 232275,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Objective 3",
      "HeadingID": 5986,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5986,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Heather Koronka: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 232276,
      "EditedText": "In a sense, the current objective 3 programme covers activities that combat long-term unemployment, tackle social exclusion and promote equal opportunities between men and women. Those themes are still prevalent in the new objective 3 programme. The current objective 4 programme is about training the work force and adaptability. The objective 2 and objective 5b programmes are about upgrading the current skills base. The new objective 3 programme picks up on all those things, which is why its scope is so comprehensive. The themes are broadly the same, but equal opportunities are highlighted even more strongly in the new programmes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 232278,
      "EditedText": "We now come to the scrutiny of the European documentation. We will go through the sift recommendation note. The first document is number 295. Is the recommendation, to \"Await explanatory memorandum and consider at next committee meeting\"agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 232279,
      "EditedText": "No. I apologise, by the way, for being late to today's meeting. Could we have a time scale for how long we await? The document could be fundamental to any European Union citizen. Many of the recommendations for the documents use the word \"await\". I want some guidance: how long do we wait?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 232281,
      "EditedText": "Now that we are out of the summer period, the explanatory memorandums from Whitehall should appear within 10 working days of each document. The wait for the memorandum should be within a couple of weeks, to enable consideration of the document to be put on the agenda. The summer was a strange period, as we had to wait longer for the documents. They should now follow within 10 days and should always be in time for the following committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 232283,
      "EditedText": "It is not available, it has not been published and it has not been received."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 232284,
      "EditedText": "The document concerned was deposited in the UK Parliament on 18 August. It is now 28 September. What is the reason for the delay—the Westminster recess?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 232287,
      "EditedText": "Do not we have all the documents?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 232289,
      "EditedText": "We do not have the explanatory memorandum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 232291,
      "EditedText": "We have the documents themselves, however, and we have had them for some weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 232292,
      "EditedText": "I do not have the document, and I would like a copy—not by e-mail, by the way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 232294,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 232296,
      "EditedText": "We must also ensure that the clerks' counterparts at Westminster are aware of our concerns about delays. Do we now agree to the recommendation for document 295?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 232297,
      "EditedText": "For document 298, the recommendation is to await the explanatory memorandum and consider the document at our next meeting. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 232303,
      "EditedText": "I advise the committee that the explanatory memorandum for document 298 arrived this morning. I did not think it appropriate to rush it to members. From a quick analysis of the memorandum, the document did not appear to concern GM food, but I shall provide copies at the next meeting so that members can look at it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 232307,
      "EditedText": "I was not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 232310,
      "EditedText": "Hush, Winnie. Let us ask Stephen about this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 232311,
      "EditedText": "When—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 232314,
      "EditedText": "I am just asking for a copy. Is that all right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 232325,
      "EditedText": "For document 331, the recommendation is that no further action be taken. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 232327,
      "EditedText": "Not unless Winnie is planning to speak Russian."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 232330,
      "EditedText": "Some of my constituents who work in Russia have been held incommunicado and have been lucky to escape with their lives. I just wanted to make that point, but I am happy to leave the matter for the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 232331,
      "EditedText": "Do we agree to the recommendation on document 331?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 232338,
      "EditedText": "Presumably, it should say the European Community and the Republic of South Africa.For document 333, the recommendation is for no further action. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 232342,
      "EditedText": "It has been referred to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 232343,
      "EditedText": "We can refer it to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 232344,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The Sale of Goods Act 1893 is one of the most successful Scottish acts ever passed; it has worked well and has hardly ever been subject to legal challenge. This is a total change, which affects us all. It should go to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 232345,
      "EditedText": "We will refer document 334 to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee.For document 335, the recommendation is that no further action be taken. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 232346,
      "EditedText": "This does not apply to us because we are not signatories to the Schengen convention. The description refers to the enforcement of indefeasible fines—what on earth are they? I could not find indefeasible in the dictionary. Is it Eurospeak? Although this is restricted to the Schengen countries, is there any possibility that in future we in Scotland will be affected by indefeasible fines?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 232348,
      "EditedText": "For document 337, the recommendation is for no further action. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 232349,
      "EditedText": "Excuse my ignorance on document 337, but how does it relate to the European Investment Bank?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 232352,
      "EditedText": "We will ask for a briefing paper on that relationship. That is a separate matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 232353,
      "EditedText": "I do not understand it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 232358,
      "EditedText": "We will refer document 338 to the Transport and the Environment Committee for the interest of its members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 232361,
      "EditedText": "I would like a copy of this document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 232364,
      "EditedText": "I would like the advice of the clerk on this. Our Parliament does not have any direct responsibility for international development or overseas aid, but some of us take an active interest in those matters. Can we obtain copies of this document? Does this committee have any power to comment on it? If we feel that there are important matters that should be brought to the attention of the people of Scotland, can we lodge a motion in the Parliament, even though the Parliament does not have powers to legislate on such matters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 232368,
      "EditedText": "Almost every church in Scotland has been involved in Jubilee 2000. It is a burning concern for everybody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 232373,
      "EditedText": "When we refer the documents to other committees we must be careful. Are we genuinely concerned about forest fires?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 232378,
      "EditedText": "It is about the legal basis for regulations, which seems to me to be a matter for the UK Government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny",
      "HeadingID": 5987,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 5987,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 232381,
      "EditedText": "This might be a daft laddie question but how much is Scotland involved in the boneless dried meat industry? The Rural Affairs Committee should know what the impact will be if there are to be preferential imports from Switzerland. Our farming industry is hard pressed and we should have a view on that as a nation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 232385,
      "EditedText": "I have two separate points. First, before our next meeting, we should circulate the correspondence that we intend to send out to external bodies. Secondly, we should concentrate on the briefing paper on our forward work programme and the use of rapporteurs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 232393,
      "EditedText": "Hold on. Wait a minute. We have gone past that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C232396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 232396,
      "EditedText": "I am not talking about forestry: I am talking about the issue—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 232408,
      "EditedText": "I was thinking more of the influence of people like Mr Beattie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 232409,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that you are on his mailing list Dennis, but if you are, no doubt you will let us know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 232414,
      "EditedText": "One of the advantages of the European system is the opportunity to identify an expert adviser to work with the rapporteur. We might need to introduce that here. It could be difficult for members to work on their own, without being able to draw on some expert support."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 232416,
      "EditedText": "The appointment of rapporteurs is a matter for individual committees. We could decide not to use that system, but I think that we will get through much more work if we do. Whether the rapporteur works alone or with colleagues is a matter for the committee. Standing orders prevent us from establishing a formal sub-committee without the bureau's approval, but we can appoint a few rapporteurs to work together as a sub-group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consultation Process",
      "HeadingID": 5988,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ID": 5988,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 232419,
      "EditedText": "The matter is best left until the Standards Committee has considered it, at least in the first instance. We need to clarify some of those issues before we send anyone away to report back. Do we agree that we should get further advice on how the system will work? However, we should start to identify the priorities so that we can establish a relative order; we can think about allocating work thereafter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 232424,
      "EditedText": "No. I have no idea who has organised it. All I am telling the committee is that I received that invitation.We have a request that members of the committee meet a delegation from the Swedish Parliament. A number of invitations like that are starting to come in. It is important that delegates from other Parliaments realise that there is a difference between the Executive and the Parliament, so I hope that the committee, on behalf of the Parliament, can meet those delegations. The Swedish group will be in Edinburgh on 16 November and we have been asked to host a reception for it at 6.30 pm that day. The Presiding Officer hopes to be in attendance and we need to know if members of the committee will be available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1497595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 232425,
      "EditedText": "It might be useful to have members of other Parliaments come and tell us about their experience of setting up a European committee. We are on a learning curve and a presentation on good practice would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 232426,
      "EditedText": "I would be reluctant to arrange additional meetings just to accommodate that, to be honest.I have already had a request from delegates from the Basque Parliament who will be in Edinburgh next Tuesday. I considered inviting them to a committee meeting, but that proved not to be possible. Where it is practical, though, it would be useful to have representatives from other Parliaments with us. You are right, Irene.Are members available at 6.30 on 16 November?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 232431,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C232437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 232437,
      "EditedText": "Where did the suggestion come from? Is it part of comrade McCabe's overreaction to the false allegations in certain parts of the media that members are hanging around on Mondays, doing nothing? Most of us have a lot of constituency work to do on Mondays. If the committee met on a Monday afternoon, I honestly believe that the service that I offer to my constituents could suffer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener's Report",
      "HeadingID": 5989,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ID": 5989,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 232438,
      "EditedText": "The suggestion was made due to problems that the staff are having accommodating all the committee meetings. Some committees are meeting much more frequently than was anticipated, which is starting to cause a logjam. Staff are considering ways to accommodate committee meetings as well as the Parliament's increased work load. It was always expected that Mondays could be available for committees if we so desired. I have already said that I do not think that members are interested in that suggestion. The conveners meeting also discussed ways to cope with the increased work load without causing problems on Mondays and Fridays. People are aware of members' significant constituency work load. We will say no to the suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 232442,
      "EditedText": "Will he deal specifically with issues of public expenditure, planning and additionality? I am not talking about the objective 2 issue. I want to talk about the whole issue of structural funds and the Scottish assigned budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 232443,
      "EditedText": "The paper was produced in response to the questions that we asked the minister about whether expenditure in Scotland would change as a result of the objective 2 decisions. I do not think that the paper is clear enough, but that is something that we can question him about at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.16538+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 232445,
      "EditedText": "I am informed that the minister will be at the meeting on objective 3. We have not had a decision on objective 2. Is there anything on which the clerk can usefully brief us? The briefing paper arose from comments made by the minister, and only he can clarify the points made in it. If members want me to, I will go back to him, as I certainly do not think that the points have been addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 232446,
      "EditedText": "My specific area of concern is the paragraph on public expenditure and additionality on page 2 of the document. It is somewhat alarming—indeed bizarre—that, due to the fact that\"In line with UK public expenditure practice, all European receipts are counted against Departmental public expenditure totals\"and to the fact that any money spent is within the departmental expenditure limit, if we successfully increase structural funds in Scotland, other budgets will suffer. That is what the paper says."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 232448,
      "EditedText": "That does not deal with the principle of the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 232461,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We must hold the meeting on either the Tuesday or the Thursday of that week, although the Thursday is beginning to look a bit tight as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 232462,
      "EditedText": "Tuesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1333
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5990,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ID": 5990,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 542.0,
      "ContributionID": 232464,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:08."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1810094+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 190714,
      "EditedText": "On the programme of action for public appointments, there is some helpful data on people from an ethnic minority background and on women in relation to such appointments, but there are no figures on disabled persons. My question may refer back to an answer that the minister gave earlier—I did not catch the full details. Does the Executive intend to produce figures on the number of disabled persons on public bodies and to set targets to try to achieve a more balanced pitch within the various organisations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 190723,
      "EditedText": "What influence can you, as a minister, bring to bear on the availability of documents in alternative formats, which is highlighted in part 12 of your document on promoting equality for people with disabilities? My concern, which is a concern that has been raised with me by several individuals, is the statement that\"consideration is given to making publications and other documents available in alternative formats\".The document refers to that as a \"mainstreaming initiative\". I would have thought that it was a mainstreaming activity only if it were happening as a matter of course. For many disabled people and disabled organisations, this is a matter of empowerment. When someone considers a matter on their behalf, it disempowers them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 190746,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 190674,
      "EditedText": "I am going from Jim Wallace's comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Kate MacLean): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 190628,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon. Some committee members have yet to arrive, but as it is just after two o'clock we shall start. I have received apologies from Tommy Sheridan, Marilyn Livingstone and John Munro. I welcome Jim Wallace, Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice, and Jackie Baillie, the Deputy Minister for Communities with specific responsibility for equality issues. The Deputy First Minister is with us until 3 pm. I understand that he will make a short statement and will then take questions from committee members. The Deputy Minister for Communities will remain until 3.45 pm to deal with the more general aspects of equality. Jim Wallace will kick off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 190630,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Members of the committee will now ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 190631,
      "EditedText": "We broadly welcome the thrust of the report. In particular, we welcome the fact that the Scottish Executive took the time to draw up an action plan. We know that it was not obliged to do that and we felt that it was important to recognise that step. Overall, we have some areas of concern, particularly in relation to time scales and the way in which the delivery of the action plan will be monitored. Do you have any general comments about that, Deputy First Minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 190632,
      "EditedText": "I welcome your welcome. Although many of the Macpherson recommendations were specific to the Metropolitan police, what was then the Scottish Office took the view that action should be taken if there were lessons to be learned in a Scottish context. However, it was also obvious that the relevant issues would be devolved matters, so it was left until after the election and the establishment of the Administration to address the publication of an action plan.At the time, I was conscious that there was considerable pressure to publish an action plan sooner rather than later. That meant that there was no opportunity for widespread consultation before publication. That is why, in many respects, the plan resembles a consultation document. I have referred to the steering group, which will have responsibility for setting time scales and timetables for the proposals. It will also be responsible for holding to account the organisations that are identified in the action plan as the lead bodies. I also expect the steering group to exert pressure on the Executive, although I intend to chair the group, as an indication of the seriousness with which the Executive approaches the issue. I expect the group to exert pressure on the Executive to ensure that it maintains progress and reports to Parliament and to the committee. I am sure that the committee will not hold back if it feels that the Executive is slipping on its timetables."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 190633,
      "EditedText": "I will explain that the committee nominated a reporter and set up a small group to consider the issue. Michael McMahon was the reporter to that group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 190638,
      "EditedText": "Police authorities comprise elected members. At the moment, they are inspected by the Accounts Commission. Mr McMahon is right to say that there is no proposal to extend the role of the inspectorate to cover police authorities. Police authorities set budgets using public money and the role of the Accounts Commission is therefore relevant in assessing value for money. Police authorities are responsible for appointing chief officers and, as I said, they have a role in monitoring how police forces deal with complaints. Her Majesty's inspectorate of constabulary has no statutory role or responsibility for monitoring that aspect of police authority work. However, given the fact that there is an interface between the work of the police authorities and that of the forces themselves, I am assured that the inspector can be quite robust in asking authorities questions about forces' responses to complaints. When he presents his report, however, I have no doubt that he will do so in diplomatic terms. It would be wrong to think that police authorities are entirely compartmentalised with regard to HMIC, although I stress that the inspector has no statutory responsibilities in that area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 190640,
      "EditedText": "The proposal to undertake a thematic inspection has come from within my department. The response to the initial publication of the action plan raised a number of points about police complaints and it is not unreasonable to say that it was the recommendation that attracted most publicity. That point has been followed up by others who have made their views known, and I thought it proper for us to respond to the recommendation. No policy proposal emerges from what I am announcing today. However, we want to ensure that when we come to consider policy proposals, we will have the advantage of the feasibility study that is being undertaken at the behest of the Home Office—I shall return to that in a moment—and important Scottish information from a thematic study carried out by HMIC.I think I am right in saying that it was a previous thematic study that lead to the current complaints arrangements, where there is a role and a locus for the inspectorate. Mr Matheson asked why we cannot have a separate Scottish study. It would have been theoretically and technically feasible, but we were aware that the Home Office was embarking on a feasibility study and that its time scale for publication, April 2000, was relatively short. I will describe the areas that the feasibility study will cover. It is being undertaken at arm's length by KPMG. The aims of the study are: to establish whether and in what way changes should be introduced to the investigation of police complaints; to determine whether, in terms of public confidence in the complaints investigation process, openness and transparency is a more significant factor than independent investigation; to suggest possible organisational structures and to identify the practical, structural and resource implications of alternative systems for investigating police complaints.That work is being done, it is being funded and we thought it not unreasonable to take advantage of it. Bearing in mind that there is a different regime in some significant respects in England, it is important that we have a Scottish contribution as well. The feasibility study and the thematic report will be valuable in informing policy and where we want to take this matter.I said in response to Ms Robison's question that the field work will be carried out by Graham Power, the assistant inspector of constabulary, and Graham Harcus, the lay inspector. I am sure that Mr Matheson will know that in many cases in the past the inspectorate and Her Majesty's chief inspector of constabulary have not been held back by the fact that the chief inspector comes from the force. He has issued many robust reports on policing and I do not think that anyone seriously questions the robust and independent way in which he carries out his duties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 190641,
      "EditedText": "Did I hear you say that there is a role for the inspectorate in the current complaints procedure? If so, will you clarify what it is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 190642,
      "EditedText": "The previous thematic study on complaints was in 1992. It led to some changes. There is independent oversight, which is provided by the police authorities and the inspectorate. It is possible for dissatisfied complainants to make complaints to the chief inspector of constabulary, who will investigate. He does not have powers to intervene. The Police and Magistrates' Courts Act 1994 gave the inspectorate an additional role, to examine the manner in which a force investigated complaints if a complainer was not satisfied with the outcome. The inspector cannot investigate the action taken against any officers involved or re-investigate the complaint, but if he finds that the complaint was not properly investigated, the inspectorate can direct the chief constable to re-investigate the complaint and instruct the chief constable to take into account any further information that has been brought to light.Scottish ministers and the police authority can require copies of the inspectorate's report to be provided to them. I am advised that, since the provision came into force in 1995, 30 to 35 cases a year have been referred to the inspectorate. There has been only one formal direction so far, but that relates to the inspectorate's policy, which is to encourage forces informally to reconsider cases rather than go to the formal stage. As I said, that followed from the previous thematic inspection of complaints procedures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 190646,
      "EditedText": "As Sir William Macpherson made clear in his report, perception is important. This is a case, perhaps, of justice not only needing to be done, but needing to be seen to be done. Only a handful of responses have been received, although I am aware of some high-profile responses calling for change. I accept that perception and openness are important.It is fair to point out that this problem cannot be solved simply by creating an independent body. If members will pause for a moment and reflect—as I have had to—they will realise that the people best trained and qualified to mount a thorough investigation are the police. That is not an irony—it is a fact of life that has to be addressed. However, we are open-minded on this issue and want to ensure that, when we come to make policy recommendations, those recommendations are well informed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 190649,
      "EditedText": "I am a bit concerned about your argument that the police are the best people to investigate race crimes. If we accept the Macpherson report and Lord Hardie's statements, the police are institutionally racist. So is not your argument a bit like saying that the best people to carry out a review of theft would be robbers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 190652,
      "EditedText": "I want to correct you on something. I do not have a closed mind, as you appear to be suggesting. I was simply making a practical point: the police have considerable investigation skills and techniques. There is no point in ducking that fact. We all have to address it, especially those who want us to move towards having more independent investigations of complaints against the police.I do not have the number of substantiated complaints to hand, but if it exists, we will make it available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 190654,
      "EditedText": "I am advised that we have figures on complaints, but that they are not broken down with regard to racial elements. I note the figure that you said, and it may well tell us something. People may not be coming forward—but I cannot say that that is why there have been none. We do, however, have figures for the reporting of racial incidents as they are defined at present—and you will be aware that the Macpherson committee report has proposed a definition for a racist incident. The figures have gone up. Under the present criteria, there were 376 such incidents in 1989, and, from the figures collected across the forces, 1,271 at the end of 1998-99.You can read a number of things into that. Perhaps the number of incidents is increasing, or perhaps there is greater awareness of incidents of a racial nature and more are being reported. I would expect that, when the Macpherson report definitions and criteria are in place, the number of reported incidents will continue to rise. I hope that people will feel the confidence to report incidents. We would be failing if the numbers continued to rise for ever, but there will be a period where seeing an increase in reported incidents might be evidence of the policy beginning to have an effect. People will feel more confident and able to report incidents. Then we would want the numbers to flatten off and to fall. That is the challenge: we must ensure that people from minority and ethnic communities in Scotland have the confidence to report incidents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 190657,
      "EditedText": "Minister, I think that you would agree that whether racial incidents are recorded or unrecorded, they represent a distressing experience for a significant proportion of our population. I hope that the Scottish Parliament will be able to address that and make it a matter of urgency that such experiences should not occur. If confidence is at the heart of the likelihood of someone reporting a racial incident, and we make it the heart of our policy to increase confidence in the system, will an independent body scrutinising what the police are doing increase or decrease people's confidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 190658,
      "EditedText": "I think that I indicated that that is one of the specific things that the study undertaken by KPMG is looking at. To repeat, the study says that it will\"determine whether in terms of public confidence in the complaints investigation process openness and transparency is a more significant factor than independent investigation.\"It will be useful to have that kind of information. That is why we want this consultation: to get information and evidence. It would be wrong to prejudge the process when outside work is being directed to that end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 190659,
      "EditedText": "It struck me as an odd either/or: arguing in favour of an independent body or in favour of openness and transparency. I presume that we would have openness and transparency through an independent body, or a guarantee of openness and transparency from the police system itself. If we are to believe that confidence in reporting incidents has arisen from the fact that we are taking such matters seriously, do you not think that having an independent body carry out these investigations would be more likely to increase people's confidence in the independence of the scrutiny?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 190660,
      "EditedText": "I understand that there is an argument to that effect. We are consulting on the matter, to allow that argument to be examined and weighed up. I repeat, for the third or fourth time, that there are no closed minds on this issue. As far as I am concerned, it is open for discussion. I am willing to weigh up and give weight to that kind of argument, together with the other information that we receive.There is no dispute over the outcome that we all want. We want to ensure that people throughout the community, and specifically those from minority and ethnic community groups, feel confidence in the policing system in this country. That is our objective. I would be interested to hear the views of this committee, and of others, on that. Those views will be weighed up when we consider the best way forward. The door is certainly not closed on an independent police complaints authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 190669,
      "EditedText": "Michael Matheson asked about the race equality forum, for which Jackie Baillie is responsible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 190675,
      "EditedText": "I am giving you mine as we are dealing with a different area.Informal contact was made and the establishment of the forum was broadly welcomed. I hope that you will welcome the forum too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 190684,
      "EditedText": "I will start by referring to the areas for which I have responsibility. We intend to try to improve the provision of information to victims on the progress of a case. We plan to introduce a system that will automatically inform victims and, in relevant cases, next of kin, about key dates in a trial, including any decision not to prosecute. The second part—the crux—of your question deals with a matter that is the responsibility of the Lord Advocate who, as is well known, operates independently of the Executive in terms of prosecution policy, and rightly so. He was asked that question by the Justice and Home Affairs Committee—not in the context of the Macpherson report but more generally in the context of decisions not to prosecute and of why certain charges are changed. Rather than interpreting his words, I should draw this committee's attention to his answer to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 190687,
      "EditedText": "The very nature of police authorities lies behind that situation. Police authorities are constituted by local authorities and involve elected members. The local accountability of elected members who are involved in the police authority has always been an important part of the set-up.As members will be aware, one of the themes of the McIntosh report—I have to remember to separate McIntosh from Macpherson—was that local authorities should reflect the communities that they represent. The Executive wishes to see a diverse range of councillors reflecting the communities from which they come. A working group under the chairmanship of Richard Kerley is considering a number of these issues, such as how we can bring about such changes in the composition of our local authorities. That is an appropriate matter for McIntosh to address. A fortnight ago, I chaired a meeting of the Police Advisory Board for Scotland, which includes representatives of the police associations and of every policy authority. Among the latter were two representatives from the minority ethnic communities, so there is representation. I think that I am right when I say that the chairman of the Strathclyde police authority is from an ethnic minority background, as is the vice-convener—or convener—of the Grampian police authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 190690,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister, for coming to the meeting and answering members' questions. I have no doubt that, because of this committee's wide remit, we will ask you to come back in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4568,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 190691,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 190694,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much—I think that you will have to do both, Jackie. Are there any questions? Would you like to kick off, Michael?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
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      "ID": 4569,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 190698,
      "EditedText": "Michael has naturally and appropriately raised a wider point about the extent to which legislative competence on these areas is reserved to Westminster. The Parliament's role is promotion of and competence over areas where it has devolved responsibility. We are keen for Scottish Executive officials or ministers to be involved in consultation on race relations and on the disability rights task force, one of whose members is from a voluntary sector organisation in Scotland. We are also keen to make such links throughout Scottish civic society. I cannot give precise details about the discussions, except to say that we will engage in formal and informal discussions to ensure that Scotland's interests are represented at the table. Furthermore, on-going ministerial discussions ensure not only that our interests are taken on board, but that the impact of any proposed changes are a matter for consultation with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 190699,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of questions to begin with. Obviously, we will have to examine legislation, the first item of which is the education bill. What work has the equality unit done on the bill and how will the bill work in terms of equality proofing?As for gender statistics, the minister's briefing mentions a rather generous figure of around 47 per cent of public appointments being women. The target is 50 per cent. However, as many of those women are involved with children's hearings—and we need to get more men on those boards—would it not be better to break that figure down into different kinds of public appointments lest we get complacent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 190700,
      "EditedText": "I will deal with the final point first. Malcolm is absolutely right about the figures. However, he will appreciate that many statistics about public appointments are collected and that we do not publish all of them. I am sure that the figure will be available in the format that he has requested.I will pass on Malcolm's offer to volunteer in the future for children's panels to Jack McConnell, who is responsible for public appointments. We have deliberately set ourselves challenging targets in this area, because, as well as being members of boards in general, more women should chair public bodies.I am aware that the education bill is about to be introduced. The equality unit's role is to encourage and to train other Executive departments to perform equality proofing. We have adopted that approach because we want departments to have an understanding of and some ownership over the equality-proofing process. We want the process to have equality at its heart; we do not want to have to approach the matter afterwards with a checklist. That will take much encouragement and engagement with departments, which is already happening. There are proposals to widen the process out across the legislative programme. Naturally, the equality unit will take an active overview of what is happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 190701,
      "EditedText": "Most of the organisations from which we received briefings during the recess raised the point that there are alarming discrepancies in public appointments. According to your own figures, 3,800 public appointments are made a year, 2,000 of which are to children's panels. The figures on gender balance look good, but I suspect that, if those 2,000 appointments were taken away, we would need to address the gender imbalance in the remaining 1,800. The committee accepted that public appointments seriously needed looked at. If the figures were broken down, as Malcolm suggested, gender balance is one issue that could be dealt with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 190705,
      "EditedText": "There is quite a bit of research in the public domain, but there are huge gaps in it—they would frighten you. We are keen to get a feel for the lie of the land before we take decisions about where we are going. I am keen that the equality unit should have a role in engaging directly with Executive departments and in encouraging them to undertake pilot projects and to do innovative work. I would welcome contributions from the committee on that subject.On one of my recent trips around Scotland, I was struck by the fact that we have an excellent economic development unit at the project in Glasgow—the only one of its kind in Britain—that is looking at the subject of women into business. Such examples are of interest not only on a UK basis, but in terms of how we spread that work across Scotland. There must be a balance between equality proofing, which is central, and encouraging innovative work. Other than for appointments and internal recruitment within the Executive, we have not devised any specific targets because we would rather take a step back and ensure that our focus is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 190711,
      "EditedText": "I can answer in terms of the Scottish Executive and the civil service, but the Scottish Parliament's employees, and those of MSPs, are matters for the Parliament and not for me. I am afraid that I cannot provide those figures, but I can find out who can, if that would be of interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C190716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 190716,
      "EditedText": "Point 3 of \"Promoting Equality for People with Disability\" says: \"Our policy is to make the services and opportunities which are readily available to non-disabled people in Scotland equally accessible to people with disabilities.\"I am particularly concerned about the old Carnegie libraries, many of which are partnership libraries with the Scottish Parliament. I know that the one in my constituency is not easily accessible and that is just one example. How do you intend to put this policy into practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 190724,
      "EditedText": "I can give a commitment to do more than exercise the limited influence that I have. By providing access to information in a variety of formats, such as Braille and audio cassettes, and by putting Scottish Executive and Scottish parliamentary publications on the web, we are ensuring that we are far more open, transparent and accountable in the work that we do. It should be a matter of course that all publications are available in different formats—and, equally, in different languages—to ensure the widest coverage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 190729,
      "EditedText": "Unless anyone has a pressing question that has not been answered, I will thank the minister for coming. We intend to invite the equality unit to a meeting soon. The minister is more than welcome to stay for the rest of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 190730,
      "EditedText": "I hope that the committee will not be offended if I say that I have other pressing engagements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 190734,
      "EditedText": "Has the statement appeared in or gone out to the press?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 190740,
      "EditedText": "Was not the statement put out on e-mail? I should have thought that that was standard practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 190743,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned Jackie's press statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 190745,
      "EditedText": "About the meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 190753,
      "EditedText": "There is no doubt that it was made fairly clear to the minister how members who knew that the press release existed felt about it. I would be reluctant to comment, as I do not know what is in the press release. There are two related issues. There must be discussion—which could be positive—about the way in which we work with ministers. They make announcements on the back of a committee, but those announcements should be presented to the committee first, as a matter of courtesy. We should establish a clear procedure, and if the procedure is not followed, we can address the problem head on at that stage. Related to that is an issue for committees generally, when committee members spin stories out of committee meetings. For example, they might issue a press release on how they will go to a committee to say this or that and so on. I hope that in this committee there is good faith among members that we come to the committee, discuss matters and come to a view. At times, members of the committee will not agree with one another—agreements might break down across party lines. However, I hope that none of us will seek to use the committee as a vehicle whereby members identify what they will say in advance, work it into the report and then go out and put some spin on it. While that is an important issue for this committee, it applies to the whole committee structure. I do not want committees to fall into a state of disrepair because members feel that they have been used cynically. I would like us to be able to establish exactly what happened in this case. It has already been flagged up to Jim Wallace that we are unhappy about it, but he might furnish us with further information. Until I see what is written down, we should deal with the matter in stages. It would be helpful if the convener raised the protocols between ministers and committees through the conveners group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 190755,
      "EditedText": "You should write because it was discourteous, but we should find out why it happened. Perhaps someone somewhere did not do what they should have done—we should ask who, where and why."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 190757,
      "EditedText": "We return to item 3, which is  further consideration of the committee's response to the Executive's action plan for Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 190758,
      "EditedText": "I wonder how we can formulate our response. At the reporters group, we identified many questions; I think that we asked all of them. If we did not get specific answers, we certainly asked the questions on every area that we identified. I suggest that every member should go away to collect their thoughts and then e-mail me with their views on what happened today and the answers that they received. I could collate that information, draft a report, get it back to members as soon as possible and have it available for Thursday. I know that that means that members will have to go away to work on their responses now. Everyone will have to return them to me by tomorrow, which will allow me to draft a report that could be sent back out by tomorrow night, if we are working to the 30 September deadline. It will be Thursday before it can be agreed properly by everyone on the committee. It will have to be done through the ether—we will not be able to sit down together to discuss the report. It will be a process of members e-mailing me as quickly as possible with their initial reactions and then giving their response to my draft report with an indication of their agreement or non-agreement with its contents. I do not know whether anybody else can suggest another way. I am open to suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 190760,
      "EditedText": "Given that we are looking at the action plan in response to Macpherson, we can keep our response to the press release separate from our response to the action plan. I do not know whether there is a time limit for our response, but we could deal with it next time we met as a full committee. We could look specifically at what Jim Wallace is saying in the press release, but keep it separate. There is a link, but it would complicate matters if we tried to draw anything from the press release and Jim Wallace's statement. If we are to look at that, it might be best to keep it as a separate item, rather than include it in our response to the action plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 190766,
      "EditedText": "That is fine, but are we anticipating agreement on every point that committee members make? We have a problem if members make controversial suggestions that have not been agreed by the committee. Is the point about the independent complaints authority the most controversial one? Members might not agree with my generous remark that we are pleased that Jim is open-minded about it, but does the committee take the view that there ought to be an independent complaints authority?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 190769,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to protect the credibility of the committee, in terms of how it deals with other areas on which somebody disagrees. It might be hypothetical, but how will a matter be resolved for the final report if somebody e-mails me to say that they do not agree?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 190770,
      "EditedText": "The final report could contain things that are unanimously agreed by the committee and things that are not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4570,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 190772,
      "EditedText": "One or two members might have a different view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 190655,
      "EditedText": "Do you think, minister, that the confidence of ethnic minority communities in Scotland will be increased if they know that the review is essentially being carried out by the police on the police? That is no criticism of Bill Taylor, who is a respected individual, but that is the public perception—you have used the word a number of times yourself. Do you believe that the ethnic minority communities will want to use the police complaints system when the perception is that complaints are not independently investigated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4570,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 190737,
      "EditedText": "It will do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4570,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 190756,
      "EditedText": "We should ask for an explanation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4570,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 190764,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 4567,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 190627,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 190629,
      "EditedText": "I welcome this opportunity to meet the committee to discuss the important issue of the action plan for Scotland, which is the Scottish Executive's response to the Macpherson report on the Stephen Lawrence inquiry. Since the action plan was published, on 20 July, there has been a period of consultation, which closes on 30 September. I understand that the committee intends to respond to that consultation. During that time, officials in my department have been working with the Commission for Racial Equality on the membership of a steering group, which will consist of representatives of interested bodies such as the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the police associations and independent members. I hope to write to prospective members in the near future and to make an announcement shortly thereafter. It is envisaged that the first meeting of the steering group will take place in the second half of October, which will allow some time for analysis of the responses to the consultation exercise. The first meeting will consider the group's terms of reference, its priorities for action and some initial time scales. Members will also want to give their reaction to the proposals in the action plan and the responses that have been received. As a result of that, the ways forward proposed in the action plan will develop during the next couple of months. For some recommendations, our proposals may require expansion. For others, we may choose to take a different direction. As I have said before, the action plan is a first step on a journey that will require a considerable amount of work from a variety of bodies and people. The Equal Opportunities Committee and the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will take a great deal of interest in the progress that is being made. We will want to keep members informed of significant developments when the steering group makes progress. I welcome the opportunity to meet members of the committee, to listen to your concerns and to try to answer some of your questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4568,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 190634,
      "EditedText": "I was aware of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4568,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 190636,
      "EditedText": "Shona Robison has asked a number of questions. I will try to answer them as fully as I can. If I omit any, I am sure that members of the committee will wish to return to police complaints, which is widely recognised as one of the key issues. It attracted considerable attention when our action plan was published in July. The issue of police complaints goes beyond the question of race relations; it concerns a range of police activities. I am conscious of the comments that have been made and I was anxious that we should be able to address them. I think that the committee may have had more criticism if I had met it today, not let on about this matter and then made some announcement later this week or next week. In many respects, that reflects how important I consider coming before this committee to be. An announcement of this nature is relevant to the committee's deliberations, and it was important that I put it into the public domain. It is important to emphasise that, in our action plan—perhaps contrary to some of the bigger-print headlines at the time—we said that we would accept the Macpherson recommendation to consider what steps could and should be taken to ensure that serious complaints against police officers were independently investigated. The Macpherson report laid considerable emphasis on not just what happens, but on the perception of what happens. In our plan, we said that we would liaise with the Home Office on its feasibility study. I confirm to Ms Robison that that is still our intention. Its study, which is being carried out by KPMG, will produce options with costs that will inevitably inform future decisions. It therefore seems sensible to take advantage of such a study and not duplicate that work in Scotland. It is estimated that the results will be available in April next year, which will, I think, be well within the time scale for considering the options that we want to take forward in Scotland. It must, however, be recognised that we have a different system in Scotland and that a solution for England and Wales may or may not apply here. It is conceivable that aspects of it would not be entirely relevant in Scotland. Significantly, there is no police complaints authority in Scotland with the power to supervise investigations or take decisions on disciplinary proceedings. We therefore have to carry out separate work in Scotland to complement the study being carried out by the Home Office. As a first step, the chief inspector of constabulary, Mr Bill Taylor, will carry out a thematic inspection of complaints procedures in all Scotland's police forces. He will consult police authorities on their contribution to the police process. The report from that is also expected in April next year. We will be able to consider its conclusions on the current system with options identified south of the border and the responses to the consultation exercise on the action plan. In the light of all that information and the responses to the consultation, we will be able to consider what policy options or proposals we want to advance. The thematic inspection will commence next month, when chief constables will be asked to provide information. That will be followed by visits to forces. The inspectorate will carry out a detailed examination of a sample of complaints and will interview police staff, police board members and other interested parties. The fieldwork will be carried out by Graham Power, the assistant inspector of constabulary, and Graham Harcus, the lay inspector. The final report will be published prior to April 2000. The terms of reference will cover identification of good practice and weakness in current procedures, the role of police boards in overseeing matters, specific recommendations to achieve continuous improvement in the effectiveness and perception of the system. It is intended to inform and provide a specifically Scottish overview of what is going on, which it is hoped will inform what recommendations or proposals we want to advance, in tandem with the feasibility study being conducted by the Home Office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 190643,
      "EditedText": "Is the Executive genuinely open-minded about an independent complaints procedure, or is it still minded to reform the current system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 190644,
      "EditedText": "I have already said that we have accepted the Macpherson committee's recommendation, which was to\"consider what steps can and should be taken to ensure that serious complaints against police officers are independently investigated.\"That indicates our open-mindedness. We want to be well informed before we proceed, because this has implications not only for race relations, which was the subject of the Macpherson report, but for police activities more generally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 190650,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that you picked up exactly what I said. I said that if there are complaints that require a thorough investigation, the necessary skills and techniques of investigation very often lie with the police—I did not talk specifically about complaints related to race, although I accept that many of them are—and I would much rather have the police investigating thefts than robbers.You talk about institutionalised racism and the Lord Advocate's comments. It is worth reminding the committee how Macpherson defined institutionalised racism.\"The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people.\"The Executive has endorsed that definition. We want to ensure that all organisations avoid the complacency that they sometimes fall into and guard against institutionalised racism. We made it clear that we were not pointing accusing fingers at any individual. But the moment that we become complacent and think that it is impossible for racism to exist in our ranks—bearing in mind the fact that that definition includes unwitting prejudice and ignorance—we do a disservice to the promotion of good race relations and to the ending of racial discrimination in this country. That is why we have endorsed the definition and indicated that, within every organisation, unwitting prejudice, ignorance or thoughtlessness can exist. Without disparaging anyone, I think that each one of us here has to be conscious of the need not to become complacent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 190662,
      "EditedText": "A racist crime—I want to broaden that out to a racist incident, as there may be incidents that, for one reason or another, do not constitute crimes, but which are nevertheless deemed to be important. A racist incident is defined in the recommendations as\"any incident that is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person\".That definition has not been determined by ACPOS or the police; it is a recommendation from Sir William Macpherson that the Executive has accepted. The whole of our response to the Macpherson report is part of our commitment to fighting racial discrimination generally. ACPOS will not be the sole deliverer of equality policies. It has been identified as having the lead responsibility in an action plan for addressing the recommendations—which is right, as those recommendations require expertise in police procedures—but the matter will be overseen by the steering group, on which there will be representatives of different groups and individuals.ACPOS has been identified as the lead agency, but it is by no means the sole agency. One of the important functions of the steering group will be to have that overview. Implementation and the question of whether the right markers, benchmarks and indicators are being set may be the sort of issues to which this committee will want to return."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 190668,
      "EditedText": "My recollection is that it was thought that establishing a steering group was an appropriate way of ensuring that this agenda was driven forward. Indeed, it was what had happened in the response that the Home Office gave to the Macpherson report—the Home Secretary has taken personal responsibility for the steering group there. As I recall, the thinking was that anything less in Scotland would send the wrong signal—that this issue was being taken less seriously here than it was south of the border.I welcome the opportunity to put this on the record. Establishing a steering group was intended as a clear signal that we considered the Macpherson report to be very important, and that the Executive wanted to tackle racism and racial discrimination in Scotland seriously. The steering group, which will be widely representative and which I will chair, is an indication of the seriousness with which the Executive takes this issue.That almost answers the second part of your question. It is certainly my intention and that of my ministerial colleagues that these recommendations should not be marginalised and allowed to gather dust. Tackling racism in Scotland goes to the heart of what this Executive and Parliament are about. If we do not tackle racism and racial prejudice, we will let down very seriously some of our fellow citizens, who will not be able to contribute all that they can to the community of Scotland. That is a loss for all of us. This Executive is determined to root out racism, to tackle racial prejudice and to address racial disadvantage. That is why we will not allow these recommendations to be marginalised, and why the steering group will have the important responsibility of setting time scales and ensuring that those who are identified as holding the lead responsibilities live up to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Communities (Jackie Baillie): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 190671,
      "EditedText": "I strongly believe that there has been a long-held view about the need to have a mechanism in place so that people from ethnic minority backgrounds can access Parliament and its committees, and the Executive. The purpose of the race equality advisory forum was, as a short-life working group, to devise a strategy to tackle race awareness in Scotland, to develop action plans to tackle institutional racism and—perhaps most important—to advise the Executive and the Parliament on how we establish the most appropriate long-term mechanisms for consultation.In formulating the membership of the forum, we consulted widely: we consulted, for example, the Commission for Racial Equality, the Scottish Trades Union Congress, racial equality councils, the Confederation of British Industry, the voluntary sector and the health sector. We deliberately adopted a sectoral approach to ensure that the forum would cover every aspect of the Executive's portfolio."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 190673,
      "EditedText": "That is not correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 190676,
      "EditedText": "We are running out of time, but I hope that you can see how strongly we feel about the independent complaints commission.We should develop the theme of consultation. We are keen that there should be as much participation and consultation as possible. Will the performance indicators be consulted on and will there be an indicator that covers consultation?Training is crucial. How much time do you think should be allocated to training on these matters for the police? Will there be training in relation to racist incidents?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 190677,
      "EditedText": "I welcome your suggestion that there be a performance indicator on consultation. As I hope that I have made clear, the purpose of developing performance indicators for the police is that the process should be open. It is a matter that the inspectorate will take forward as it examines race relations policing, and the steering group will also be involved.Training for racism awareness is one of the important recommendations in the report. I know that doubts are often expressed about some racism awareness training. Fears have been expressed that the training can reinforce stereotyping. Evaluation of training is therefore important, not just its provision. I understand that the level of training that has been provided across the police forces has been variable but the forces have accepted that there is a need for improvements and that there should be national guidance.The Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland has the lead responsibility in this area. In November, it will produce a national equal opportunities training strategy, which I and the steering group will want to examine. Training is a very important part of the process and there is progress to be made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 190680,
      "EditedText": "Jackie Baillie will be able to cover those issues.Four people have indicated that they want to ask questions. We will try to get through all of them before Jim Wallace has to leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C190681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 190681,
      "EditedText": "The issue of resources was mentioned, but was never properly addressed. Has the Scottish Executive considered the action plan's resource implications for all public sector organisations and for the black and ethnic minority voluntary sector? I know that funding for Victim Support is to increase, partly to fund witness services in court, which is an area that is under-resourced and where there is a need for more expertise in Scotland. What percentage of the Home Office grant will come to Scotland via Victim Support?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 190682,
      "EditedText": "I cannot give an exact answer to that question, but it will be noted, and if an answer can be given, we will write to the clerk with that information. The action plan does not attach additional resources to any specific initiatives. No additional resources are planned at the moment, although I will come back to the specifics on Victim Support.The aim of the Executive's policy is to ensure that issues of race and gender are built into our core business and are not an add-on. Jackie Baillie and her department are addressing the matter. She may want to add something about the funding of the voluntary sector, which is important. Equal opportunities must be seen as a core responsibility for public bodies and not as an optional extra.On the question of Victim Support, three courts currently have witness support schemes. It is intended that that number will double in the relatively near future—I cannot remember off the top of my head exactly when it is planned that that should happen. Victim Support Scotland receives £1.5 million annually.The partnership agreement indicates that we want to address the issue of victims in our justice system. That is one of the Executive's policy objectives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 190685,
      "EditedText": "I ask Michael McMahon and Malcolm Chisholm to ask their questions briefly. After that, it will be up to the minister to decide how long he wants to stay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
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      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 190689,
      "EditedText": "We wanted to flag up the fact that data protection could be a problem as there are limitations on information exchanges between agencies. One example that comes to mind is the difficulties that some police authorities now have in passing on names to Victim Support. It is okay if individuals approach Victim Support, but difficulties have arisen when the police have passed on names off their own bat. We are addressing those issues with the Home Office. Current legislation allows for ways of exchanging information, such as protocols on the protection of information. It was right that we flagged this up as a potential difficulty, but we would like to overcome it if it is legally possible to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 190692,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Jackie, for attending this afternoon's meeting. I understand that you want to make a brief statement before the committee asks questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190695",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 1032
    },
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      "ID": 123
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 190695,
      "EditedText": "During the recess, we held a series of briefings with a lot of organisations to examine equal opportunities as they stand at the moment. One of the themes that came out in all those briefings was the lack of information on equality issues. Can you give the committee some indication of the Scottish Executive's attitude to the provision of the resources and information that would allow proper scrutiny of equal opportunities policies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 190696,
      "EditedText": "We are currently—through the equality unit and the central statistics unit—looking at how we can get better data on the range of equality issues. The committee will appreciate that some of the gender-disaggregated data are currently not bad, although there are patches that we want to examine. Data on disability issues are available, but in different forms. At the moment, we are struggling with the concept of self-description and with the issue of those who describe themselves as disabled or as having a limiting long-term illness.We are keen to ensure that there is adequate data collection on race. Some measures have already been introduced. The 2001 census will provide data about ethnic populations from both small-area and larger-area levels, which will be useful for policy development and service planning. Furthermore, we have established the Scottish household survey, which will provide useful data on about 60,000 Scottish households over four years. We have started down the road of ensuring that the data sets are appropriate, but it will take time to make sure that we have got those sets right. We are keen not just to make this an issue for the equality unit but to bed the matter down in all Executive departments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 190702,
      "EditedText": "I have a specific question about the data in your memorandum, which I thought helpful in providing us an outline. You talked about the census in 2001. I am sure that you are aware that the census will not ask a question on religion, although that question will be asked in other parts of the United Kingdom. You will also be aware that many groups—including religious, black ethnic minority and campaign organisations—are arguing for the inclusion of a question on religion. Where are we on that issue, and what role would either this committee or the Scottish Parliament have in pressing to have that question included? In much of the briefing that we received during the summer, it was argued that the question may have been excluded because bodies did not ask for it, but bodies did not ask for it because they were not aware that they should have asked for it. By not asking the question, we are denying ourselves information that would help in targeting services. I want to identify what stage we have reached, whose ultimate responsibility the matter is, how we can influence their decision and whether a change is possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 190703,
      "EditedText": "The Minister for Justice, who has just left, takes the lead responsibility on the issue. The working group that was established received consultation on the formulation of census questions. At that stage, it advised ministers that no business case had been established—I think that that was the form of words that was used. Having said that, no decision has been made and the matter will not be brought before the Parliament until November. There is an opportunity for any interested party, and for members of this committee, to write to us indicating their views on whether the question should be included. We have an open mind about it. There are several forceful arguments from both sides, and it would be helpful if they were put."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190707",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 190707,
      "EditedText": "As I said, the equality unit is essentially made up of civil servants. They are happy and willing to provide factual information and briefing for the committee as it is requested. Policy issues are raised with me, as the responsible minister. I hope that our relationship can be open and encouraging. There is a huge body of work that we can take forward collectively. I take the point about the need for action, which is why I am trying to highlight examples of where I would like the equality unit to work with lead departments in taking forward pilot projects. I also recognise that the unit is small—it is to be strategic—and that part of the work extends beyond the Executive and must bed down equality within local government, health boards and wider Scottish society. That is an enormous agenda, but we are keen to bring action plans for operating that agenda back to this committee and to the Parliament for scrutiny."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190709",
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    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 190709,
      "EditedText": "The last thing that we want to do is to duplicate work—that would be a waste of time for us all. I would be happy to give the committee an indication of my forward plan for parliamentary business, potential announcements and other work, so that members could get a sense of what I and the equality unit are doing. There will be areas that, frankly, the equality unit will not consider and that the Equal Opportunities Committee may choose to examine. I hope that we can complement each other in our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 190710,
      "EditedText": "I want to bring the discussion back to home base. Have we monitored our performance as employers and does our work force represent Scotland's ethnic make-up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190715",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
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      "EditedText": "It is wonderful when we think in the same way, Michael. That is exactly the point that I picked up. It is interesting that there are targets in certain areas and not in others. I think that the exact wording is: \"We would encourage appointments of disabled people to public bodies.\"We are keen to take that forward, but to do so sensitively. We are working with the Equal Opportunities Commission, the Commission for Racial Equality and the National Disability Council on what action would be appropriate. These matters are live and continuing, so I would not like to say that we are leaving things there, although it will be some time before we come back to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 190717,
      "EditedText": "The provisions of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 on access to goods and services are being implemented between now and 2004. As Elaine rightly pointed out, we are talking about access not just to goods and services, but specifically to facilities; changes must be made to the physical make-up of buildings to ensure that access is improved and that the physical barriers can be overcome.We are providing extra help and making reasonable adjustments to give disabled people access to public buildings, but that will happen over a period of time. We are also keen to encourage the private sector, which also provides services and owns buildings, to do the same—that is a requirement of the act. We have also contributed to a national information line that will make the private sector aware of the requirements and point it in the direction of information and advice on how it must meet those requirements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 190721,
      "EditedText": "There are areas where Westminster and the Scottish Parliament have responsibilities that cover the divide. Responsibility for legislation might remain central, but service provision is our responsibility. Plans are already in place to examine access to rail. Plans are under way to consider accessibility to public transport. Buses, taxis and coaches—all forms of public transport—will be considered. While the Minister for Transport and the Environment has responsibility for the matter, we all have a common interest in ensuring that we get it right, as public transport is a key barrier to disabled people gaining access to economic and social opportunities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 190725,
      "EditedText": "I want to get a feeling for how the unit and the civil servants that it will influence will go about considering the legislation. How proactive will they be? That goes back to the education bill and what we were talking about with Jim Wallace. Will it be a matter of avoiding things or of trying to introduce things in bills that deal with some of the issues that we talked about? To what extent, for example, will the education bill take on board the proposals on anti-racist education, which are so fundamental to dealing with the problems that we were talking about?The other area that we have not touched on is sexual orientation. There is much discussion now on how we can get rid of section 28. Has any consideration been given to that and to the appropriate bill for it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 190727,
      "EditedText": "We would all welcome that, and it would be welcomed broadly in Scotland as well.The difficulty when we talk about equal opportunities is that we want to focus on individual areas that you have identified, so you will forgive me if I address two of them. You will recall that the first formal lobby of this Parliament was by people with complex impairments—they had a sensory and a visual impairment—and organisations associated with them. Issues arise from the fact that people have two impairments. You identify each impairment separately but not together, so has any work been done in that area? One of the things that was raised at that lobby was the type of signing that was required, the fact that people do not get that support as of right and how isolated they feel because of that.In your paper on racism, you identify social inclusion issues. What is being done to scrutinise what social inclusion partnership boards are doing with regard to women? Will that be monitored by the Executive, or will the boards be expected to do it? Clearly, child care and supporting women into work are key strategies, but how closely are they monitored?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 190747,
      "EditedText": "Was that issued before the meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 190749,
      "EditedText": "So you do not object to statements being issued before a meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 190751,
      "EditedText": "Is it the case that Jackie's staff are more efficient than Jim's staff? Can we establish the facts before we go off at half-cock?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 190754,
      "EditedText": "I can do that and I have no objection to writing to Jim Wallace, if the committee wishes, to tell him about the discussion that we have had on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 190763,
      "EditedText": "Do you want that to be an item on next Tuesday's agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 190771,
      "EditedText": "We could have appendices. If I submit a final draft and someone does not agree with a specific point, I do not see any harm in saying that there is not unanimous agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 190774,
      "EditedText": "The report could be drafted in such a way that it allowed minority views on an issue. It could say that although the majority felt one way, a minority felt another way. We will not say what we expect from the review, but we want to ensure that those who review the action plan are aware of the issues raised by the committee, whether members were unanimously agreed or not. That would inform those who are carrying out the review of the strength of feeling of the committee. Unanimous and minority views should come through."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 190775,
      "EditedText": "May we leave the matter in your capable hands?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 190776,
      "EditedText": "I do not know about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4571,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4571,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 190778,
      "EditedText": "We will put that on next week's agenda and it will be a regular item, although if nobody has anything to report, that will be fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4571,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4571,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 190780,
      "EditedText": "Objective 3 funding is on the agenda—I hope that members have read the document. I have not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C190781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4571,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4571,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 190781,
      "EditedText": "It might be appropriate to thank the ministers for coming to the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 190697,
      "EditedText": "One of the key policy initiatives in Scotland mentioned in the minister's submission concerns working with Westminster on the Home Secretary's bill to extend the Race Relations Act 1976. The submission says that the bill will apply to Scotland and that officials are working with the Home Office on the issue. At what level are those discussions and what areas are they targeting?In a similar vein, the disability rights task force is reviewing the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 with a view to recommending changes. What role is the Scottish Executive playing in that review and what proposals has it suggested?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 190742,
      "EditedText": "Jackie's press release is on the Scottish Executive website, but trying to get hold of Jim's was an absolute nightmare. As Shona said, we spent about an hour trying to do so. We were able to get it only by going to the Scottish Executive's press department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 190748,
      "EditedText": "She had it published on the internet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 190750,
      "EditedText": "No, because Jackie had hers published. Furthermore, she was not making a major announcement. Jim, on the other hand, used the committee as a platform to make a ministerial announcement on a specific issue. There is a difference in access to information—Jackie Baillie made the information available to committee members, but Jim Wallace did not. He made an announcement that committee members had difficulty getting hold of. It is inappropriate for any committee to be used in that manner—Jackie did not do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 190768,
      "EditedText": "There should be at least a feasibility study to look at it as an option. We have not even had an explanation of what that would involve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 190639,
      "EditedText": "The minister has made great play of perception and consultation. Before he made his announcement today about the recommendations, whom did he consult? The minister said that there were lessons to be learned in a Scottish context, but I must confess that I am a little confused. He rules out a Scottish feasibility study for an independent police complaints authority, but he wants to wait for the Home Office to publish its report and tinker with it from a Scottish dimension. Why should there not be a feasibility study in Scotland for an independent complaints procedure for the Scottish police service? As yet, I have heard no good reasons.The minister stated that perception as a whole is an important part of the problem. Does he consider it appropriate that a very senior member of the police force should be responsible for the review, given that we want to ensure that the report and the review will be perceived as impartial?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 190663,
      "EditedText": "Minister, you raise a point about the role of the steering group. Whom did you consult prior to establishing that group and the forum? What level of consultation exercise took place?The aspect of the action plan that was flagged up to me early on was time scales and resource allocation in implementing some of the key recommendations. Of the recommendations that have an impact on the police service, which will be seen as good practice, and which will be seen as mandatory and will have to be implemented? There is probably some concern that, unless recommendations are regarded as mandatory, they can easily be marginalised and frustrated. It is my understanding that that has been the case in some other reports, particularly on race issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 190665,
      "EditedText": "Before you go further, can I take you back to the question: whom did you consult before establishing the steering group? Did you consult any organisations to find out whether that was the most appropriate way to take the action plan forward?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 190672,
      "EditedText": "No one was consulted in regard to the establishment of them at the time, not even the Commission for Racial Equality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 190653,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I can help you out. There have been none. What is your response to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 190733,
      "EditedText": "I propose that a letter of complaint be sent to Jim Wallace on behalf of the committee. I do not know how many members have seen the press statement—from the number of shaking heads, it would seem that most have not. It was extremely discourteous of Jim Wallace to issue a press statement without giving us an opportunity to see it beforehand. We spent an hour trying to obtain the statement this morning and succeeded only with great difficulty. It is not acceptable for ministers to fail to supply statements and to come to a committee meeting when they know that most members will not have seen what they have issued. This was an extremely important statement; to make such a major announcement without informing us first was at best discourteous, and at worst an attempt to hijack the meeting for the minister's own ends."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 190735,
      "EditedText": "It has gone out to the press."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 190739,
      "EditedText": "The statement was issued only today. However, the press have it. Some members of the committee have been phoned by journalists. The fact that that has happened, yet we have not had sight of the statement, is a problem in itself.Ministers should not do business in that way. This is not a personal attack on Jim Wallace—this is about a committee saying to a minister who is due to attend one of its meetings that it does not expect to be treated like that. We deserve more courtesy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 190759,
      "EditedText": "That sounds sensible. I am sure that most of the information in the report from the sub-group will remain the same, so we are talking about additions to it. My only concern is the committee's response to Jim Wallace's announcement about the review of the Scottish police complaints procedure. That is the main difference between the information that we had when we wrote the report and that which we have today. Members must see the press release and comment on it, but our response will be a collection of individual responses rather than the result of a discussion about a major announcement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 190637,
      "EditedText": "This question is about the role of inspection. The Macpherson report recommended that Her Majesty's inspectorate of constabulary consider all aspects of the police service. However, the minister specifically rejects consideration of police authorities in Scotland. Can he explain why?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 190645,
      "EditedText": "The minister has an advantage over me, because I am not aware of the announcement that was made today, having been stuck in a meeting all morning.Are you able, minister, to say anything about the consultations that you have had so far? Has anyone taken the view that the complaints procedure should remain in-house instead of going out to an independent body? Given what emerged from the Stephen Lawrence case, and given the police's recognition of institutional racism, do you accept that perception is important? A strong independent body, far from being something that the police need be anxious about, would support them in their work. Are you worried what message we would send out if complaints continued to be dealt with by the police? This has nothing to do with the integrity of individuals, but is about sustaining public confidence in this area, which, you will accept, has taken a severe knock recently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C190647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 190647,
      "EditedText": "I want to pursue Johann's point about restoring confidence. I know that police authorities are subject to inspection by the Accounts Commission. However, is the minister aware that none of the indicators that the commission uses assess performance on racial equality? Surely performance cannot be adequately assessed in the absence of such indicators. What thought has been given to rectifying that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 190648,
      "EditedText": "We want to ensure that we are as open and accountable as possible in developing racial equality performance indicators for the police. That will form an important part of the consultation. It should be noted that the inspectorate already examines race relations policing and progress on equal opportunities as part of its regular inspections of Scottish police forces. However, I have no doubt that more can be done to refine performance indicators. That is one of the reasons for having the action plan and one of the matters that the steering group will want to address in police forces as well as in the police authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 190656,
      "EditedText": "I also indicated that the feasibility study which is being done south of the border, at arm's length, will inform policy recommendations. The lay inspector of constabulary will be involved in that, and I know that Her Majesty's chief inspector of constabulary intends to consult the Commission for Racial Equality on his complaints inspection. There will be plenty of opportunity for people such as the CRE to have input into that. To repeat what I said earlier, there are examples of the chief inspector of constabulary making robust reports. There will be other evidence too, including the feedback that we get from consultation. This thematic report will not determine policy—that must be done by the Executive as a result of consultation—but it will inform policy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 190664,
      "EditedText": "I have not yet announced the steering group, principally because there is still consultation to take place. The group will consist of representatives of the Scottish Executive, of ACPOS, and of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, as well as independent members who have a professional or personal involvement and interest in the criminal justice system and the police. We are consulting the Commission for Racial Equality on the membership of the group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 190666,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean whom the minister consulted before announcing the steering group, as it has not been established yet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 190670,
      "EditedText": "Jackie Baillie will answer about the race equality forum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 190678,
      "EditedText": "I would like to comment on what Michael said about consulting about consulting about consulting. The situation is of a chicken-and-egg type, but we have to start somewhere.We have talked a lot about tackling institutionalised racism in the police, but we have to tackle racism at the outset. Prevention is better than cure. Nobody has mentioned the importance of education in stamping out racism in children but to deal with that would be to tackle the disease, not the symptom.Aside from the police, other groups of people—social workers, those on children's panels—have equally important responsibilities and we should consider them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C190679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 190679,
      "EditedText": "I want to emphasise the importance of education, particularly as views can be established at an early age. Unlike in England and Wales, which is the context relevant to the Macpherson report, we have no national curriculum in schools. Our response to the report accepted the principle of valuing cultural diversity and preventing racism. Advice was provided by the education and industry department of the Scottish Office to ensure that similar points were contained in the recommendations that are made to education authorities and head teachers.HM inspectors of schools monitor whether curriculum guidance, including guidance on cultural diversity, has been implemented. In addition, the recent HMI publication \"A Route to Equality and Fairness\" gives schools greater guidance on how to ensure that they are performing and will allow schools to achieve some degree of self-evaluation.The wider range of public services falls beyond the scope of the Macpherson report, although I do not for a moment diminish their importance. We need to start somewhere. The broader issues will be addressed by Jackie Baillie's forum rather than by the steering group or in the action plan that arose from the Macpherson committee report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C190683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 190683,
      "EditedText": "The reporters group, under the section on prosecution of racist crimes, raised the issue of disclosure of information to families. The Macpherson report recommends:\"That the CPS ensure that all decisions to discontinue any prosecution should be . . . recorded . . . and that save in exceptional circumstances, such written decisions should be disclosable to a victim or a victim's family.\"The Executive's response says that the matter requires further consideration and that reasons for disclosure\"are recorded at the moment but are not disclosed because of sound public interest reasons\".The Executive's response goes on to say:\"It is not proposed to change this position at the moment\".Does that mean that victims and their families in England and Wales will be entitled to a lot more information than victims and their families in Scotland, if it is decided to discontinue a prosecution or if a charge is reduced, for example, from murder to assault? It is distressing for people not to understand why a charge has been dropped or changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 190686,
      "EditedText": "When this committee was established, we realised right away that there was a glaring problem, as none of the faces around the committee table were black or Asian. We recognised the potential for co-option. In the action plan, the Scottish Executive rejects a statutory duty for local authorities to reflect the local ethnic mix in its police authority. Minister, can you give me the reason for that decision? Is there not a good argument that local authorities should be able to co-opt if they are in the same position as us, which is that we cannot identify a black person to sit on this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 190688,
      "EditedText": "Information sharing about racist incidents is an important proposal in the second main section of the action plan. However, the report says that there are problems of data protection, although the group that considered the action plan was led to believe that the problem was not too big. Can you expand on the problems, minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 190693,
      "EditedText": "I am conscious, convener, that we have sent out a detailed memorandum, which I hope was helpful. I welcome the opportunity to begin the dialogue on equality with the committee. I believe that all MSPs—and members of this committee in particular—share the Executive's commitment to encouraging equal opportunities. Ensuring that that concern for equality lies at the heart of policy making is a positive challenge for us.On the equality agenda more generally, there are a number of areas in which we might want to share ideas and engage in useful dialogue with a view to adopting an approach to the encouragement of equal opportunities in Scotland. That dialogue will be between us and the statutory equality agencies, as well as with other key interests such as local authorities and the voluntary sector. That sharing of ideas builds on the constructive exchanges between the committee and various organisations this summer.At its meeting on 21 September, this committee discussed the role of the new equality unit and its relationship to this committee. I hope to clarify the fact that the unit has been established to support the Scottish ministers. Its members are civil servants who are bound by the civil service code and the recently agreed guidance on contact between civil servants and MSPs.Through the clerk of the committee, I have issued copies of the earlier announcement about the new head of the equality unit, who takes up that post tomorrow. I hope that members have received copies of the document—we can arrange to have them sent to those who have not received them.The establishment of the unit is consistent with the principle of mainstreaming equality across the work of the Executive. The unit will support lead departments within the Executive in the development of policy. That is consistent with our commitment to putting concern for equality at the heart of policy making.Responsibility for the preparation of equal opportunities impact assessments for the policy statements that accompany all Executive bills will, in practice, lie with the lead policy departments. The unit will support them in that work. There will clearly be advantages to many areas in sharing developing knowledge and expertise—such as on mainstreaming—with the committee and, indeed, more widely. I am conscious of the time, so it might be best if we consider at future meetings how we can take that agenda forward. I thank the committee for the opportunity to discuss those issues. I am happy to take questions today or at future meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 190704,
      "EditedText": "A point was made about general attitudes in education. I am a great believer in winning hearts and minds, but I do not believe that we should hang about until hearts and minds have been won before progressing on equality issues. The task—through the Executive's structures and this committee—is to ensure that all the aspirational stuff has been done and to focus on targets and on progressing things. I welcome the fact that you used the phrase women's issues, rather than gender issues, which neutralises the experience. You talk a lot about research and what has been done. That is important, but I wonder what targets the Executive is setting on women's issues—other than gathering information and doing research. Given that so much research is already in the public domain, do you have some idea of your key target areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C190706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 190706,
      "EditedText": "The minister's memo was very helpful, but it is sprinkled with words such as research, consultation, discussion and advisory groups. If we are to convince minority groups that there is a real commitment to equality, there must come a point when talking ends and action begins. Mention of time scales and commitments would be useful. You have talked about the role of the equality unit. Could you explain what you see as its relationship with this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 190712,
      "EditedText": "I can answer that, because it is the responsibility of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. I am on the working group—I have been to one meeting—which has been meeting for some time and which is looking at an equal opportunities policy for the Parliament. The group will produce a draft equal opportunities policy for the 300-odd staff who are employed by the Parliament. This committee will be able to examine that draft policy before anything is finalised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 190713,
      "EditedText": "I just wondered what the facts were at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 190718,
      "EditedText": "I am always worried about how overworked you are, Jackie. It strikes me that you chair an awful lot of groups and task forces—the race advisory forum, the homelessness task force, the social inclusion network, the Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence, and probably many others that I have overlooked. Some of them predate the Parliament, and they are all good bodies. However, to go back to an earlier point, what interests me is how their way of doing things relates to the new Parliament and, in particular, to the committee. I am not sure what the answer is, but I have a nagging concern that back benchers will feel that government is being contracted out and that somehow they are not involved. You can be assured that we will not let that happen.I want to press you on the Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence, which I have spoken to you about before. You went to the debate on it at the beginning of the month, which many people think has been the most remarkable debate since we started. There is obviously much momentum in the Parliament to get the partnership moving. I think that you have just come to the end of the consultation period. How are the results to be taken forward, and how are MSPs to feel part of that process? Although the partnership is doing good work, there is concern about the way in which its remit has been narrowly defined, rather than made part of a general strategy on violence against women."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 190719,
      "EditedText": "I am touched by your concern for me, Malcolm. If I am feeling a bit low, I will come and speak to you and you can bolster me.There are high expectations of the Parliament and of the way in which we do business. That is our collective responsibility. I get the sense that people want the Parliament to be open, accessible and accountable, and that they want a role in government. Although ministers and Parliament will make the final decisions, there is a positive role to be played by the voluntary sector and by other public agencies in informing our decision making. I may chair a lot of things, but I am not necessarily the expert, and we have an opportunity to factor in knowledge from other bodies across Scotland and to use it productively.I am sure that back benchers will also play an important role, not only in debates and in the passing of legislation, but in committee work and in informing ministers of current thinking. There are several layers, but I would not necessarily be too worried about them—their existence is a measure of how inclusive the Parliament is attempting to be.The Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence was set up, as you rightly say, by the previous Administration, but I heartily welcome it. It has been producing a work plan and devising a strategy on domestic violence in Scotland. It will consider the legislation, costs and funding, and the consistency of service provision. It met yesterday, I believe, and it is revising its work plan, which has been out for consultation. In the near future, it will make recommendations to ministers. I assure you that it will not take long to sign off those recommendations, so that we can get down to implementing a strategy.Like you, Malcolm, I welcomed the debate enormously, and I got the sense that this is one issue on which the Parliament is unified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 190720,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the research project on transport provision for disabled people that you spoke about, Jackie. If legislation is reserved, how will the Scottish Executive—to deliver for disabled people in Scotland—implement any recommendations on the regulation of public transport that might come out of the Reid-Howie Associates review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4569,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 190722,
      "EditedText": "We could therefore regulate, if that was deemed necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 190726,
      "EditedText": "The equality unit will be proactive and will avoid creating opportunities for discrimination in new legislation. However, I stress that the equality unit will not be responsible for equality-proofing legislation. It will act as a strategic advisory service to ensure that other departments, such as the education department when it takes forward the education bill, understand equality proofing and have mechanisms in place to take that forward. That is the best way to achieve what we are seeking—not only the avoidance of discrimination, but proactive encouragement of legislation that addresses the points that you made. There must be a balance. The equality unit will not scrutinise line by line every piece of information that arises from legislation. It will ensure that other departments have clear ownership of that agenda.I am pleased to confirm that it is ministers' desire to repeal section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988. We are looking for an appropriate legislative vehicle. Consideration must be given as to whether it is entirely a devolved matter or a reserved matter, but we are keen to make progress, and I am delighted to tell the committee that we are looking actively at ways in which to repeal section 28."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C190728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
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      "ID": 4569,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 190728,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to scribble down all your points.I recall the lobby on disability in committee room 1, by Deafblind UK and Sense. Iain Gray, the Deputy Minister for Community Care, and I had a thematic day on disability and invited a range of organisations to present their cases to us and to engage in a dialogue on what the issues were and the role that the Parliament could play in moving them forward. You are right to identify the category of multiple impairment. Small numbers of people are affected and, to an extent, local authorities and service providers sometimes do not appreciate the difficulty because there are not the numbers to merit attention. While that is understandable, it is not necessarily acceptable.Iain Gray is keen to look at service provision based on the person. As you will know, we are currently considering how to make progress on a range of community care initiatives that are centred on the individual. To put it simplistically, they give individuals control, in effect, of a pot of money to access services. That might be a way forward. I know that the officials in community care and the minister will consider that.I will say two things on the issue of women. First, you will be aware that we have established a social inclusion network, which includes a variety of people with interests in social inclusion. One of its action teams deals with evaluation and it will report formally on an evaluation framework that can usefully be implemented and that will address issues such as the role of women. In my experience, the role of women in community activity is extremely powerful, and we need to examine mechanisms to support women in that setting so that they can participate in the community and, beyond that, so that they can access employment and training. Indeed, part of the national child care strategy is aimed directly at expanding such provision to enable women to participate more fully. In December, we will publish a monitoring and evaluation procedure that all social inclusion partnership boards will be required to adopt. That will enable the committee and the Executive to monitor centrally how effectively the money that has been set aside for tackling social exclusion is being spent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 190731,
      "EditedText": "I may be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 190732,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 is further consideration of the committee's response to the Executive's action plan, but Shona Robison has passed me a note about Jim Wallace's press statement. Would she like to raise that issue now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 190736,
      "EditedText": "But has it appeared in the press?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4570,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 190738,
      "EditedText": "But it has not appeared yet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 4570,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 190752,
      "EditedText": "How do other members feel about the issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9788334+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 190762,
      "EditedText": "That would be best—it would mean that we could consider the press release in more detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 190765,
      "EditedText": "Everybody must e-mail Michael McMahon as quickly as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 4570,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 190767,
      "EditedText": "I got the feeling that everybody was in favour of that. It would be the most controversial point."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190777",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4571,
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      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 190777,
      "EditedText": "I have managed to get the four groups reasonably balanced, with at least three members in each. I suggest that the disability group be led by Michael Matheson, the gender group by Johann Lamont and the sexual orientation group by Nora Radcliffe. It has already been agreed that the race group be led by Michael McMahon. If the committee agrees on who will be in each group, I will get in touch with those people so that they can arrange to meet. Although it is a short time scale, the groups could come to the next meeting with a list of suggestions for topics that they will consider. Is everybody happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4571,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4571,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 190779,
      "EditedText": "What else is on Tuesday's agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4571,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ID": 4571,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 190782,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:01."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:35.5256973+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 190744,
      "EditedText": "Jackie also put out a statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.1010778+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 190661,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased to hear that. I would like an assurance that the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland will not be the only judge of the delivery of policies on equality strategies within the police force. Surely some outside help will be required in the setting of indicators. Who will monitor the effectiveness of the delivery of equality strategies in general police practice, and the investigation of racist crimes, if the police are to be the sole arbiters in deciding what is acceptable and what is not? That would pose problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 190667,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 190635,
      "EditedText": "Minister, you talked about the consultation process—obviously this is part of that process—which ends on 30 September. However, you used today's visit to the committee as an opportunity to launch the announcement that you are reviewing the Scottish police complaints procedure. I want it on record that I am not particularly happy about ministers using the opportunity to speak to a committee—particularly as part of a consultation process—as a means of launching their own campaigns.I also find it strange that the minister should make such an announcement, given the fact that the consultation process is still under way. That you were not willing to wait until the consultation process ended makes a mockery of the process. Perhaps you can explain the timing of the announcement.An independent police complaints authority is obviously a major issue in the Macpherson report. One of the key recommendations is for a feasibility study. You said, minister, that you would wait until the feasibility study for England and Wales was produced in April 2000. I find it strange that you made that announcement: how does it fit in with the feasibility study recommendation? Will there still be a feasibility study into an independent police complaints authority? If so, why can we not have a feasibility study for Scotland now, rather than wait until April 2000?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4568,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 4568,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 190651,
      "EditedText": "I think that I also heard you say that the police were the best equipped to investigate themselves, which perhaps pre-empts not only the outcome of the review but the outcome of the feasibility study in your own mind, and I am a little concerned about that. How many substantiated complaints of racially discriminatory behaviour have there been in the past few years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Equalities Issues",
      "HeadingID": 4569,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ID": 4569,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 190708,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister, for the press statement, which you had the courtesy to send out in advance—unlike the Minister for Justice. My question is similar to Irene's, but it is on the race equality advisory forum. This committee is concerned about the possibility of duplication; we especially want to avoid confusing groups and organisations with which we will all be consulting. I would like your view on how we should do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 190741,
      "EditedText": "There was nothing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 190761,
      "EditedText": "It depends whether our response is considered to be part of the action plan response. I would be happy if the committee decided that it was not, and if we gave a separate response to the press release."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1032
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4570,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 4570,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 190773,
      "EditedText": "That is why the report said that there was unanimous agreement in the sub-group on the need for a Scottish feasibility study, rather than what its outcome would be. We deliberately worded it in that way, in case anyone was unsure about what they would like to see as the outcome. However, we all agreed that there should be no delay in having a feasibility study."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2134,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2134,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 104959,
      "EditedText": "I have some points to raise when we reach the item on the children's promise. However, perhaps it would be better to postpone that discussion until the next meeting, so that we can invite David Watt to address the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2134,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2134,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 104962,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 104966,
      "EditedText": "I realise that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Doran (Head of Schools, Children's  Services, Stirling Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 104973,
      "EditedText": "The Association of Directors of Education in Scotland and local authorities are committed to working with the voluntary sector. I welcome this opportunity to be the guest of Children in Scotland on this panel. ADES has been asked by Children in Scotland to consider in particular a model of joined-up service provision, focusing on child-centred approaches, inter-agency working, and early-years services. I was asked to focus on Stirling Council as one model that can be considered in the context of some of the proposals in the draft bill.For there to be a child-centred service, to which the bill is committed, education and care must be integrated—there should be no division. The starting point for child-centred services in Stirling was the political or committee structure, which was established in the shadow year of 1995. We had a children's committee, to which a director of education services and a director of housing and social services were accountable. The political discipline of that structure ensured that officials were committed to child-centred, joined-up thinking and to the promotion of integrated working. Members were expected to produce, jointly, papers that indicated consultation with other services, agencies, children, staff and parents. We were expected to consult the student forum—representatives of which were elected to the children's committee—and the student councils.Stirling Council recently reviewed the role of chief officials and the director of education was redesignated as director of children's services, a role that combines education services and children, young people and families in social work. We are developing a code of practice for joint working, based on what we have learned in the past three years plus. That covers joint staff development and training and a shared understanding on issues such as child protection, early years, special educational needs, vulnerable 16 to 18-year-olds and looked-after children, on which a joint policy has been developed with the health service and others.Working together on policy papers is not the end of the matter. Local authorities welcome the new community schools initiative as a means of developing a shared understanding with children, young people, families and the community, but the bill should include greater evidence of national integrated approaches to, for example, quality assurance and early-years inspection. An artificial divide exists between education and care in relation to the inspection of early years and child care; it might be interesting to have children's inspectors instead of different inspectorate teams inspecting different aspects of this area.The children first agenda is not just about structure. There must be evidence in national and local authority plans of aims that indicate a commitment to integrated education and care of the highest quality—we must have children first and child-centred approaches in all that we do. For instance, we commissioned research from Stirling University to seek children's views on the effectiveness of learning and teaching in S1 and S2—that is an area that needs to be examined. We have responded to the views of children and young people, staff and others and developed policy in relation to that.I would take children's participation even further. Children and young people should not be seen as passive recipients of services; they should participate actively. Children's empowerment is essential for their confidence and self-esteem. That can make a difference to all aspects of their lives, in and out of the classroom. That applies to child protection issues and to children with learning difficulties and children in poverty. We need to focus more on that.I will say a wee bit about the Children (Scotland) Act 1995. What is missing in all this is the children's services plans, which provide a framework for integrated working with education, social work, the health service, the reporter to the children's service and housing agencies. The plans are informed by the needs and views of the voluntary and statutory organisations that are active in their communities. To address social inclusion, we need the evidence from those plans, which are in place to support children in need, children with special educational needs, children who are disaffected, children in poverty, looked-after children and children who require through care and after care. The draft bill does not recognise that child-centred agenda or take into account the wider legislative framework, such as the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.On raising achievement, in the broadest sense, we could have a significant debate about the purpose of schooling when we consider the outcomes indicated on page 9 of \"Improving our Schools\". Schools cannot solve all the problems. For example, in Castleview in Stirling, which is a new community schools initiative area, 45.7 per cent of children and young people do not go into higher education, further education, training or employment. The schools cannot solve the problem alone; they need to work in partnership with others in order to make a difference to the children, young people, families and communities.I will not say anything about attainment—I have run out of time. However, I would like to say that the challenge for the legislation is to identify local needs and to allow local authorities and others to work in partnership with health services and others to identify local outcomes. There needs to be flexibility. There will always be a commitment to standards and quality, but we want children to be effective people. They are the citizens of the future and we want them to be confident and creative and to have transferable skills. We must recognise that they are going not into a job for life, but into a life of jobs. That is the challenge, and I am not sure that the bill addresses that bigger debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 104976,
      "EditedText": "Finally, our briefing highlights some of the relevant statistics that we think members should keep in mind. That completes our introduction, but we will be happy to answer questions on a number of points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104978",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 104978,
      "EditedText": "Some important points have been raised. I am particularly interested in how we can facilitate child participation. This Parliament is supposed to be all about participation, but I have not read the blueprint on how we are to facilitate child participation. Parents often say that they know what children need or that they know how to speak to children, but the papers and drawings indicate that there are many different ways of speaking to children. Margaret mentioned the importance of a child-centred approach, but perhaps we need to teach adults how to work with children. It seems to me—do not shout at me for saying this—that we do not encourage children to be confident and stand up and say, \"I don't like that. I think that's an awful idea.\" When I was a child, we were told to shut up—what did we know anyway? How can we get away from that attitude? How can we build children's confidence to say what they think is important and how can we help adults to value children's views?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104984",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 104984,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, Ian, we were not trying to put you off, but even though we can all hear each other, we must have the microphones on, because the official report sometimes goes back to the recordings. That is why we were panicking a bit that your microphone was not on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Houston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 104986,
      "EditedText": "I will pick up on some of Kay's points about training adults. One aspect of our work at ChildLine is to go out and work with adults to train them in communicating with young people. Time and again, we hear of the need for that, even from people who have been teachers for a long time. It is a different kind of communication and people are often quite deskilled. Some people will not require a tremendous amount of training, but it must help them to focus in the right way. That is vital as many people have those discussions with young people and find themselves coming unstuck if they have not had training.Another point that is raised by some adults is that an almost inevitable conflict will arise, because the priorities of children and young people may not be the same as the priorities of the adults. There can be all sort of debates as to which ones ought to take precedence and in what situation. There is no hard-and-fast rule that says that we must always accept the priorities of the adults or those of young people. There are times when it will not be possible to do exactly what young people want done. Those adults repeatedly say to us, \"How do we deal with that level of anger and frustration from young people? How do we feed back to them, when it has not been possible to do what they want, or where that has been adjusted?\" We must listen to young people's feedback and be prepared to take the flak. It is often not possible to go along with young people.I agree that there is a trend towards listening and there is evidence of really good practice. There is a question how that should be used, to help all of us who are struggling to cope with a change of ethos. Honesty is one of the things that children and young people who call us at ChildLine are constantly talking about. \"If adults could just be honest with us, we could live with that. We might be angry or upset at the time, but we will get over it as long as people are honest.\" Children find it most difficult when issues have been flannelled or avoided, or they have been told that something will happen, and the opposite does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Tisdall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 104992,
      "EditedText": "I think that Mr Stone is asking some good questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Tisdall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 104994,
      "EditedText": "I want to ensure that members are aware of the age issue. Mr Stone mentioned 13 to 18-year-olds and the youth parliament takes in children from 12 upwards. We need to think about younger children in different ways.Youth parliaments and other youth forums are potentially very useful. We do not know enough about how well they work—that is a research issue. We need to know more about good models. There are big questions about what power such parliaments have. In other youth parliaments in the past, young people have been turned off by the fact that the forum is a talking shop with no power. There are some examples from down south, and in Scotland too, of youth forums that have a small budget and some power, although that power is curtailed. That is a major issue.We need to go beyond youth parliaments and youth forums. They serve a particular purpose and may be very good, both symbolically and practically, by involving a certain group of young people. However, to take a systematic approach we need to consider a combination of quantitative and qualitative methods. Quantitatively, we must ensure that we have a wide range of children from different family and educational backgrounds. We have suggested that education needs a customer survey, which could be done through the general household survey. That would ensure that we involve a wide range of children.I suggest that we set up a network—perhaps similar to the Danish model—which links certain groups who have said that they would like to be involved, such as this committee, that represent a range of children. That network could work with both children and adults to create a meaningful and sustainable approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 104996,
      "EditedText": "We seem to be taking a much wider approach than the bill. However, the issue of youth forums is important and the committee accepts that.In relation to the bill, we are too late to be terribly imaginative, but we could introduce an amendment to the bill requiring all schools to have a pupil council. We are thinking about school boards—should we be putting in something on those lines?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 105001,
      "EditedText": "I am keen to move this on a little. Do you want to come in on this, Cathy?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 105003,
      "EditedText": "If everyone is happy, we will move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C105008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 105008,
      "EditedText": "My point is in the same vein and follows on from the ideas of active citizenship. Every school should do what is right for the children and families in its area, rather than just following a blueprint. If we are to do the things that we are talking about and that are in this paper, it is important that parents have a role. That role will be different, depending on where people stay. I am especially interested in social inclusion and in the experiments that are being done in community schools.A lot of parents want to get involved, but for some of them the idea of going through the school gates can be quite scary. I do not mean that the reception that they get is scary—I am not saying that at all—but we have to break down some of the barriers and we have to encourage parents to participate, and help them to find the voice to support their children. You can do what you like at school, but when the child gets home a lot of that is lost, so it can be difficult to build on the work done at school to support the development of the child. I am interested in folks' views on how we can encourage parents to become involved, especially parents who would not naturally go along to the school board, to the parent-teacher association or the jumble sale, but who would like to go along."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 105012,
      "EditedText": "The issue of parental participation and choice was raised. Margaret might want to comment on that—I know that Kay does."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kelly Bayes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 105017,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure exactly what the take-up is. We know about eligibility for free school meals, but the take-up is much less than it should be because, despite people's best efforts, it is still considered stigmatising. The provision of free school meals could be extended to children from families that are eligible for the working families tax credit, and that might be a way of addressing poverty in schools. We ought to consider it along with wider aspects of policy, rather than as a purely educational issue. We do not have exact figures for take-up, do we?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105019",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 105019,
      "EditedText": "I have a number of peripheral questions to ask before I focus on the main part of Children in Scotland's case.First, qualitative indicators for social inclusion are operating in schools, but perhaps not strongly enough. As Kay said, we must emphasise that in the bill, so that there are no perverse incentives. I do not support school boards and I do not believe that they have brought much to the Scottish agenda over the past 10 years. That might be a controversial statement, but there are wider issues of parental participation and school boards make the focus of the debate very narrow. We need to engage parents in a broader way.I was interested in what Margaret Doran said. The Stirling approach was different from that of the council on which I served, where we integrated education and leisure. I wonder to what extent we will be able to move towards a national integrated approach without addressing the structure of Scottish local authorities. I also wonder who has the mettle—I almost said another word there—to address further structural change in Scottish local authorities over the next few years.I chaired the policy and resources committee that drew up the children's services plan in South Ayrshire; there is no doubt that education and social work started off as relatively unwilling bedmates. They had to be drawn quickly, strenuously and sometimes tortuously to the conclusion that they needed to work together. That was at local level. I wonder whether the same issue is reflected in the bill. One of my concerns—and the committee has heard me mention this before—is the way in which the Scottish Executive remains unreconstructed. This bill, laudable and commendable as Nicola Sturgeon said it is, is narrowly focused on education. It seems that it has not benefited from joined-up thinking in the drafting process. That reflects the unreconstructed nature of the Scottish Executive, as opposed to the integrated work in local authorities. Although I welcome the Riddell committee report, the way in which we look at that is a matter of separation and not integration, which is regrettable. The bottom line for Children in Scotland, however, is that there are huge gaps in the bill in regard to children with special educational needs. That is what it is saying, and we will all need to go away and think about that. I intend to introduce at least one amendment on children with special educational needs, and we should look at a range of responses on that. The bill is not proofed for special educational needs and that is one of the tasks that we will need to address as we go through pre-legislative scrutiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C105020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 105020,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in what the witnesses were saying about how we could expand performance indicators—it is part of point 2 on the briefing paper. Could you say more about that, because it is important for the way in which the bill is drawn up? I would also like to echo Ian's point about the flawed basis of the bill. Your list of principles might be a valuable contribution to the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 105022,
      "EditedText": "I shall address the latter point, first, then I shall bring Kay in. There is every opportunity to improve the bill. It is also important to look beyond the bill to other opportunities to improve the education system. Important as it is, the bill is only one element of what needs to be done. I would not like to think that what you are involved in is just tweaking—I would like to think that there is an opportunity to influence the bill positively. Particularly, I would say—actually, I am not going to say that. I was going to say, \"If you did only X,\" but it would be counterproductive to say that. If principles were incorporated in the process, that would be a major aspect of what could be achieved.Kay, do you want to take up the first point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Tisdall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 105025,
      "EditedText": "Cheers, convener.I was somewhat cynical about where we would go with the principles in the Children (Scotland) Act 1995, in which all of us were quite involved. It is only as good as practice on the ground, is it not? When I go out and train people, I am interested in how they talk me about those principles. I always wonder whether I should tell them that, in law, they do not apply to a particular aspect. The idea of children's views is taken seriously. Members of Children in Scotland have said, among other things, \"We would not mind if more time was taken over the bill to get it right, to take account of special educational needs and do a good job.\" However, some changes, such as those that we are talking about, would go a long way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 105028,
      "EditedText": "It was noted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Doran: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 105030,
      "EditedText": "There is some national advice on that matter. The research of the Scottish Council for Research in Education influenced it: it links educational attainment, the life chances of looked-after children and the effect of exclusions from school. There are quite a few statistics. It is correct to say that something is going on nationally.We developed a policy based on that research and tried to address the research problems that we have. One of the problems is that there can be some difficulty in obtaining information from schools on who their looked-after children are. Some of the looked-after children do not want people to know that they are looked after, which is one of the challenges. In addition, there are issues around children who are looked after in the through-care and after-care sector, and the difficulties that they face. It is a huge area, on which we need a policy directive. We are committed to seeking children's views on what they need—they shape what we do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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      "ID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 105031,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that we have six minutes left on this item. Are there any burning issues that members want to raise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 105032,
      "EditedText": "The second part of the discussion has been tremendous. The witnesses have made suggestions that affect the legislation. On the ethos, there are tremendous issues that cannot be covered in the bill but which we must air, as we have done today. I worry about the first part of our discussion because I suspect that we will end up not telling people the truth, which is that we do not have time to consult young people, as the committee should. I fear what Fiona is saying: we will end up having said good things without being able to implement them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 105034,
      "EditedText": "I know that, but we need to be practical and to recognise the limits—the time available to us, who we are and where we are. Whether we go out or bring people in to talk to us, there are time limits, if we are talking about this session of Parliament and the long term. We should not be telling people fibs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 105036,
      "EditedText": "I reiterate that we have set out specific amendments and provisions that we feel should be incorporated in the bill. The bill is an opportunity to establish a framework whereby we can improve the system in Scotland. A much wider approach needs to be taken to education, and the commitment to what has been called joined-up thinking or a child-centred approach needs to be replicated in that framework. Currently, that is not the case, but if we incorporate some of the principles in order to have a wider definition and re-examine some of the issues, we can make the act really effective. We will be happy to help in any way that we can, by providing further information. We can distribute information that we brought today on, for example, services for young children in Denmark and Sweden. I am sure that our members will be happy to help in eliciting the views of children and young people. I do not think that that is necessarily an insurmountable problem, although I take the point that has been raised about needing to ensure that it is a meaningful process. Unless my colleagues wish to add anything that I might have forgotten—which is always possible—that is all that we wish to say. I thank the committee for inviting us to give evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
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      "ID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 105041,
      "EditedText": "We are all keen to ensure that we do not do that and that we cover as much as we can. If we are happy with those headings— nothing is exclusive—I will ask Gillian Baxendine to speak to the people on this afternoon's panel and our researchers and to report back to the committee. The committee will then meet and take those issues forward.Consultation will be difficult if we do not make progress soon. Are members happy for me to speak to Gillian about that during the week, so that we can bring some proposals back to the committee? Next week's meeting will be fairly heavy, but we can circulate something to members and take the matter forward from there. Is that acceptable?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 105052,
      "EditedText": "How would we involve them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 105053,
      "EditedText": "We would ask the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body to make it a wider initiative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2136,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 105055,
      "EditedText": "At 8 o'clock next Monday morning, I am going to the Grosvenor hotel for a meeting on this matter. Should I tell the press then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 105056,
      "EditedText": "The Grosvenor hotel is in London."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 105059,
      "EditedText": "Could we have five minutes at the beginning of a meeting soon to allow the NMEC to bring us a big form to sign? We could invite the press and all sign one big form. That would mean that it would be in the next day's paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C105061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 105061,
      "EditedText": "How much will it be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 2137,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 2137,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 105063,
      "EditedText": "The next item is the programme for future meetings. Do you want to introduce this part, Gillian?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 2137,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 2137,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 105067,
      "EditedText": "We will circulate the provisional dates for future meetings as soon as we have them, so that members know what is happening and can decide their diary. Members will remember that we agreed at our previous meeting that the extra meeting would be rotated so as to ensure that it did not clash every time, as it has for Mike Russell this afternoon.We will give as much notice as possible. If the provisional dates cause any problems, members should let me know as quickly as possible. We will try to juggle the programme to accommodate as many people as possible.At our previous meeting, it was suggested that we visit community schools. I suggest that we do that in the first week after the recess and that we break into groups of three or four and visit a number of community schools, rather than 11 of us—plus whoever—all going to the same one and overwhelming it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 2137,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2137,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 105072,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone happy with that? Okay. Thank you for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2134,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 104955,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2134,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2134,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 104958,
      "EditedText": "I think that there was a misunderstanding, Fiona—nothing more than that. I assumed—as did Gillian Baxendine, although she can speak for herself—that you were simply suggesting that the matter should be put on the agenda; I was not aware that you were asking for someone to speak on it. As I did not think that there would be any opposition to the children's promise, it did not seem necessary to have somebody to speak about it and David Watt was not included on the agenda. Unfortunately, because there is no space for him on the agenda, he cannot, under standing orders, be allowed to speak to the committee. However, it would be okay for you, having had an opportunity to speak to him, to say something to the committee on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2134,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 104960,
      "EditedText": "The only difficulty with that is time. The next meeting, as I am sure you know, is next Wednesday, and we have invited members of the Scottish Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff in School Education to attend—unfortunately, that meeting will be fairly full. The matter could not be addressed until after the two weeks of recess, which would be a little late. I would prefer us to deal with it today. I will give members the opportunity to make comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2134,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2134,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 104961,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could ask David Watt to send us a briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 104963,
      "EditedText": "I am keen to move on, as we have people with us. I welcome our witnesses to the committee and ask them to make their presentation. Afterwards, committee members will be able to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 104965,
      "EditedText": "I think that members may only just have received that document, so most of them will not have had an opportunity to read it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 104968,
      "EditedText": "We will expand on it. We emphasise that we are delighted with the commitment that the Scottish Executive has made to placing children at the centre of the Scottish schools system and to introducing new education legislation. We believe that the Executive has an opportunity to prepare important new education legislation for Scotland, which is much needed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 104972,
      "EditedText": "In summary—this is at the bottom of the first page of our briefing document—we think that the bill should amend section 1 of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980 to represent some of those goals and, in particular, to include key principles of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child relating to non-discrimination, children's welfare and children's views. If performance indicators are important in education, they must address the full range of those goals and not merely concentrate on literacy and numeracy.Those are the key points on the first theme. Margaret Doran will introduce the second theme, which is about making links between services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Doran: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 104997,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I would propose that in a bill, but some form of good practice should be promoted. Children should be given citizenship opportunities, like the life skills that are identified on page 9 of \"Improving our Schools\". Perhaps citizenship should be one of the core skills and young people could be given the opportunity to participate in citizenship activities. That participation can be modified, whatever form it takes—pupil councils, buddying, area forums—but I would be concerned if that were to be fixed in law. Perhaps Bronwen and Children in Scotland have a different view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 104979,
      "EditedText": "I support what Cathy says. From the beginning, this committee has said that we want to involve children and consider how we can encourage participation. We questioned the ministers closely on that subject when they came to the committee, but I have to say that I do not think that their answers were very satisfactory.I am pleased that Children in Scotland thinks that we have to train adults to learn that it is acceptable for children to participate, and we must understand how to listen to young children. I have only one slight criticism: it would have been nice for the young people to have been here this afternoon. We could have taken an hour or so of our time to work out how we could have made things less intimidating.I am sure that many folk have received the UNICEF document \"Put it to your MSP\". I suggest to the committee that we do not have individual surgeries with children, but that we devote a committee meeting to children and allow them to come to us. It will be interesting to hear from you, the professionals, how we should go about that. We could keep talking—saying that we want to do that—but if we are going to be serious about communicating with children we must work out how to do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 104982,
      "EditedText": "I would like to reinforce what Fiona said. Last week, I was at a youth awareness event in the Borders that was run by the police, where communication was precisely the focus of the event. I was there, as was the police chief and social workers and others. I have been a teacher for 35 years and I was very aware that it was hard to give convincing answers to the children, although they asked perfectly reasonable questions. It was difficult to engage with what they really, really wanted. I am interested in how we do that. It is not just a case of bringing them in, sitting them around a table and talking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 104983,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to let that comment go by without defending generations of schoolteachers. Many of them promote a culture of listening and participation in their classrooms. I do not want to underestimate the trend over the last 15 years towards increasing participation in school structures for young people. Similar moves have occurred at local authority level and beyond, where youth participation structures have been set up. The youth parliament is a national example of that. I do not want to let the discussion continue without having it on record that there is a distinct trend with which Parliament must catch up. We must recognise good practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Tisdall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 104985,
      "EditedText": "I agree that there is emerging good practice and long-standing good practice that we must build upon and learn from. That should be an important principle in the education legislation, to progress this interest that many people have in education. There are many things for the committee to consider. Given that you are the children's committee, virtually everything that you do will relate to children and young people. Have you considered establishing a sustainable form of consultation? Part of our struggle today was that, although we were glad to come, we had 10 days' notice. It was difficult to ensure that children were informed, so that they could come.If you establish a sustainable process, the committee could have groups of young people who become used to working with you. You would have to build a process, as they need information and feedback. As I am sure members are aware, people with excellent experience would be delighted to help you with that, including ChildLine, Barnardo's and Stirling Council. Fife, along with others, has been a leader in consulting with very young children.I stress that Scotland now has a good tradition of consulting children and young people on policy, but it is on a one-off basis. We all consult young people on one-off issues. We must consider this more systematically and—this is the researcher in me—ensure that we get a full range of views. If we go to schools, we are not likely to talk to children who are not in school. It is important that we speak to those children. Children will not say certain things in schools. If you have a sustainable approach, you could set up different groups in different ways to ensure that they are representative and there is diversity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 104988,
      "EditedText": "If it is of interest to the committee, we can provide further information on this. There is an accumulating body of material on practice in Scotland. I reinforce what Kay said about the need to be systematic. It is worth mentioning some of the experience in other countries that we could consider. For example, Denmark has a network of schools and day care institutions, which were established on a regular basis, and to which they went to consult on specific issues. That is one example from a lot of practices which could be drawn from and used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Tisdall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 104999,
      "EditedText": "The evidence we have about high school councils follows on from what I said about youth parliaments. The best examples work well, but young people feel overwhelmingly that they have no power and that they are not being listened to. Children in Scotland supports school councils in principle, but it is their quality and the powers that they have that are important.We think that the bill should be amended to include the principle that all children in a school should have their views considered on every matter that affects them in school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C105002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 105002,
      "EditedText": "No. I would like to move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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      "ID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 105004,
      "EditedText": "I am terribly concerned that we have had a long and full discussion, but that we will end up with nothing to show for it because we are not being specific."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 105010,
      "EditedText": "Yes, there are. Before addressing the first point about what could be done to ensure that the bill has a wider approach to education, I would like to commend the report that we co-authored with the Scottish Council Foundation, Children, Families and Learning. One suggestion in the report was that we should be looking less at standards and more at goals. The goal has been cited that children should arrive on their first day at school healthy, confident and ready to learn. In the report, we suggest that that would also be a good way for them to leave school. The report looks ahead to the medium and long term, but we feel strongly that the vision that we have of what the system should be like in 10 or 20 years' time should inform the framework that is offered by this bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Houston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 105011,
      "EditedText": "I should like to return to point 1 at the bottom of the policy briefing, about amending section 1 of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980 to represent the key principles and goals that Bronwen talked about.  There is much evidence about the issues that concern children and young people at school over and above academic qualifications. Undoubtedly, exams and academic qualifications are one of the main issues that concern children and young people; I would not want to comment on that. However, there is plenty of evidence that other issues concern them. We need to ask how much needs to be legislated for, because there are many issues, and those issues are different in different schools and areas.That takes us back to the need for the bill to establish the principles and ethos that will encourage schools to work with their young people and parents on the issues that affect their area. Preparing for citizenship is important, but there must be flexibility, so that schools can tackle the problems that affect them specifically. The bill should not impose constraints."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kelly Bayes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 105014,
      "EditedText": "The bill should also take into account other local policies, such as children's services plans. Many local authorities have strategic plans for support services—education must be integrated into them. If parents are to attend parents evenings or meetings of the school board, they need support in the community. That involves other services apart from education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 105016,
      "EditedText": "Nicola also asked about the take-up of free school meals; I think that Kelly can answer that question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 105018,
      "EditedText": "No, but we know that there are significant issues in relation to take-up. One way to address the problem is to look for a less stigmatising approach, and I guess that the working families tax credit offers the potential for doing that. If one takes a wider view of education and of learning, school meals and the way in which children eat and talk to one another at meal times become rather more important than they appear to be if one takes a narrow approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 105021,
      "EditedText": "Ian got to the heart of the matter. I became concerned when Fiona McLeod asked what happens next. That is an important point. For example, citizenship is linked to modern studies, which in some schools has been cut back because of budget problems. We can talk about bringing in the parents and about all the other worthy initiatives that have been suggested, but the heart of the matter is—and this is a horrible word to use—the prescriptive nature of the bill. There can be all sorts of fine intent, but authorities—depending on their nature—might choose to disregard that. We have all seen examples of authorities where social work—Ian touched on this—does not talk to education or to culture or to leisure. To what extent does Children in Scotland think that tweaking of the bill will be necessary? Ian has given us notice that he will frame an amendment. I am of that mind, too, on similar issues to the ones that Ian mentioned and on the youth parliament. What are your thoughts on changing things in law?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 105027,
      "EditedText": "In relation to early years, the bill proposes a statutory duty to provide pre-school education but specifically makes it clear that it is securing pre-school education because the Scottish ministers are committed to diversity of provision. It is not clear why it would not be possible to propose a statutory duty to provide something that was wider than pre-school education, for example, early-years services that offered the opportunity to socialise, play and learn in a happy, healthy and safe environment. That is probably too wordy to put in the bill, but it encompasses what most people who work in early years want.One of the issues in relation to the interface of the bill with the wider subject area is what is required in relation to children's services. Some of those interface issues arise in regard to schools, but others arise at either end of the age range. The current concept of pre-school education does not meet the needs of many local authorities, such as Stirling Council. It does not represent what we will need in early-years services in five or 10 years' time—that was a slightly impassioned addendum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 105029,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on what Margaret said about looked-after children and the integration of training across services. Does not the Scottish Executive have a contract for that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 105035,
      "EditedText": "Would the witnesses like a minute or so to sum up their position?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C105038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 105038,
      "EditedText": "Another area is performance indicators and how we measure success. The softer indicators are just as important as the other statistics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 105042,
      "EditedText": "Henry McLeish and Jim Wallace launched the Scottish youth parliament with a great fanfare—it is laudable and splendid. Should the bill not be put to the Scottish youth parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 105043,
      "EditedText": "Gillian thinks that that is going to happen. I will let her answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 105051,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that all members of the committee will want to sign up. My apologies to David Watt for the fact that he was not included on the agenda—which was as a result of a misunderstanding. If he has additional information, it would be useful for him to write to us with it.It is a good idea to invite MSPs to join the appeal but we should not forget the Parliament's staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 105054,
      "EditedText": "Gillian will write a letter and that will go forward.I suggest that we extend the appeal to all members of staff. A good way to get publicity for the event would be to extend the invitation to the members of the press who have become our daily companions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 105060,
      "EditedText": "We will arrange something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 105062,
      "EditedText": "I was asked that but nobody knows yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 2137,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 2137,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 105064,
      "EditedText": "All members of the committee probably know that the various parties in the Scottish Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff in School Education have been invited to the next meeting. Members also wanted to take evidence on the bill and, because there will be limited time for that, I have written to all the organisations that were identified, asking them for written submissions. When they have been received, I will circulate them and the committee can decide who it wants to take evidence from."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C105071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 2137,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 2137,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 105071,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we go in to find out what is happening and what the problems are, for example, with the multi-agency approach to working. It is early days for many community schools and we want to see things as they are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 2137,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 2137,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 105073,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:42."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 105058,
      "EditedText": "The convener should issue a press release to publicise the appeal and encourage members of the public to get behind us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2134,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2134,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Mary Mulligan): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 104956,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon. I welcome the representatives of Children in Scotland who are joining us this afternoon. I will give them the opportunity to introduce themselves in a moment. There are two apologies: one from Karen Gillon and the other from Mike Russell, who has another meeting. Jamie Stone will be slightly late."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2134,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2134,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 104957,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a point of order before we begin. As you know, convener, I asked for the millennium final hour appeal to be put on today's agenda. Since making that request, I have contacted David Watt, the Scottish partnership manager of the New Millennium Experience Company—he will be attending the meeting at 3 pm. This morning, when I asked the clerks, I was told that, as his name was not on the agenda, he would not be able to talk to the committee.Can I have some guidance about how that situation arose? Although we are talking about the appeal this afternoon, one of the most instrumental parties in that appeal in Scotland was not invited to address the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen (Director, Children in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 104964,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much indeed for inviting us to give evidence to this committee. We are delighted to be here. I am Bronwen Cohen, the director of Children in Scotland. I have brought with me my policy and research manager, Kay Tisdall, who is sitting on my immediate right, and a number of our members. Our membership encompasses both voluntary agencies and the statutory sector. On my immediate left is Anne Houston, the director of ChildLine Scotland. On her left is Margaret Doran, the head of schools, children's services at Stirling Council. On Kay's right is Kelly Bayes, the principal policy and practice officer of Barnardo's (Scotland). That is our team. We will briefly introduce some of the main points that we want to highlight for the committee, to allow as much opportunity as possible for members to ask us questions. Members should have copies of the policy briefing that we sent to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 104967,
      "EditedText": "If you want to expand on its contents, feel free to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 104969,
      "EditedText": "The briefing paper outlines three major gaps—or themes—on which we want to address the committee. The first of those is headed: \"What is education for? Going beyond improving standards.\"We identify that the bill\"fails to incorporate key principles into law, including\"—and we emphasise this—\"international obligations to promote children's welfare and to take account of children's views.\"That is the first theme on which we want to address the committee—Anne Houston, from ChildLine Scotland, will expand on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2135,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 104970,
      "EditedText": "The second of the themes is headed: \"Making links between services.\" In our view, the bill\"does not take a sufficiently ‘child-centred' approach and does not ensure that inter-agency working is streamlined and supported\".That applies particularly to special educational needs. We believe that there must be \"new duties for early years services and new planning requirements.\"  That second theme will be addressed by the second member of our team, Margaret Doran, from Stirling Council's children's services.The third aspect that we want to consider is an inclusive educational system. Special educational needs, we understand, \"will be considered by a separate consultation process\".However, it is vital that this bill takes account of special educational needs. Kay Tisdall, our policy and research manager, will expand on that. Without further ado, I ask Anne to speak on the first theme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Houston (ChildLine Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 104971,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Bronwen. I shall address the issue that is headed: \"What is education for? Going beyond improving standards.\"One of the contentious issues in the draft bill is the concentration on academic performance and on improving standards of academic performance. I do not suggest that that is not important and I want to make it clear that this is not an either/or situation. However, we approach the matter from the point of view that school is the place in which most children and young people spend most of their waking hours. They need to learn about becoming people and all that goes with that, as well as about academic subjects.We would be pleased to see a reference to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. We feel that the convention, and children's welfare and the consultation of children, should be central to this bill. At the moment, children do not seem to be as central as they could be.Children and young people need to know about their rights. It is evident from the many thousands of children who phone ChildLine that children are not clear about their rights and there is no way in which children can access their rights if they do not know what those rights are. I accept that some children are not at school—that issue will be picked up later—but, for those who are, school is the place in which they can learn about rights and responsibilities. It is important that the bill should incorporate that ethos.There is a question over how much should be legislated for. We are keen to promote the ethos of children's participation and views. There is a lot of talk now about consulting young people and it is important that we train our young people in how to respond to the opportunities to be consulted. Children must learn in school how to do that, and must participate in decisions that are made in school and in the running of the school.At ChildLine, bullying is the biggest issue that we hear about from young people. The children who expect things to be resolved are those who talk about schools with active anti-bullying policies, which the children helped to devise and which they are part of keeping alive. That kind of ethos needs to come through in this bill.Unfortunately, young people are often seen as the problem, but they are part of the solution, too.Those are the general issues that we would like the bill to address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 104990,
      "EditedText": "What you are saying is clear: we have to accept that there has to be a feedback from those whom we are consulting. That has to be an on-going process, and I believe that the committee is keen to take part in that. At some point, we will want to follow up on some of the examples of best practice that you mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 104974,
      "EditedText": "In summary, we feel that the bill needs to address more effectively the intersections between education and child care law. Its relation to the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 is not sufficiently clear. That leaves room for confusion over the definitions of children in need and of special educational needs within education law, and it leaves room for confusion over how the plethora of plans will work together. There is also confusion over issues such as the registration and inspection of, for example, early-years services. Children in Scotland's long-standing policy has been that there should be no artificial divide between education and care and that we should be moving towards an integrated regulatory system for early-years services.The third theme is that of an inclusive educational system. Kay Tisdall will expand on that and will also present—at their request—the views of two groups of young people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 104998,
      "EditedText": "We see little reason not to incorporate in the bill some of the basic principles relating to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. It may not be possible to do that in total at the outset, but I see little reason why specific aspects such as listening to children and obtaining their views cannot be incorporated in some shape or form.Children in Scotland is aware of some of the difficulties that can be involved in drafting bills in terms of rights. Those difficulties came up in relation to the Children (Scotland) Act 1995, and it managed to overcome some of those difficulties. We are firmly of the view that there is no reason why some of those principles should not be incorporated into the bill.Kay would like to say something about school councils."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Tisdall (Policy and Research Manager, Children in Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 104975,
      "EditedText": "Page 14 of the consultation paper \"Improving our Schools\" says that the Scottish education system should befully inclusive and should offer opportunities for all.Children in Scotland welcomes and appreciates that. We would like that commitment to appear in the legislation. Our members feel strongly that it is not inclusive to divide off special educational needs from the bill. We have seen the Government's response to the Riddell report, aspects of which are very welcome. However, keeping the consultation separate will not ensure that this mainstream bill is proofed for special educational needs, which would ensure that it addressed the needs of all children, whether they are disabled, come from disadvantaged backgrounds or have different cultural or ethnic origins.The Riddell report addresses a particular group of children—children with severe low-incidence disabilities. That group is very important, but it does not include the full range of special needs that the mainstream legislation needs to deal with.What would it mean if we were to bring special needs into the education bill? Children in Scotland feels that the statement in the consultation paper should be right up among the principles that Anne Houston was talking about—we want an education system that is fully inclusive and that offers opportunities for all. We already have that in school exclusion guidance from the Scottish Office, and other United Kingdom legislation has similar commitments and we hope that Scottish legislation can take it on board.The Scottish Executive's response to the Riddell report is generally positive, but we suggest that its approach on a couple of the issues should be more active. The Executive says that the educational framework sufficiently represents children's views and caters for their welfare. However, we think that the bill should specify the principles that there must be due regard for children's views and that the children's best interest must be the primary consideration. That is already the case in the 1995 act, but we need to bring it into educational law. In 1995, the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child came down heavily on the United Kingdom Government because, under our present laws, children who are excluded from school have no right to appeal or to have their views heard—in fact, only their parents have that right. That is one example of something that we could change to ensure that the principles are established in law and therefore, we hope, in practice. The Executive states that the reviewing and recording process for special educational needs is basically fine, but that is not the view of members of Children in Scotland. At our recent consultation, that statement caused such a flurry of interest that we have arranged another meeting in two weeks' time to go into the matter in considerably more detail. Research and practical experience tell us that, although well intentioned, the recording process is bureaucratic, takes a lot of time, and does not necessarily meet the needs of all children with special needs.What would we find if we were to proof the mainstream part of the legislation? Let us take devolved school management as an example. Down south, where there has been more devolved school management, people are worried that children with special educational needs have been disadvantaged. How can a small school unit deal with an expensive child who may not show up well in the league tables? We should expand our standards and attainment goals to ensure that kids with special needs are not excluded because of such provisions. Children in Scotland supports the global idea of social inclusion. We have an opportunity to create an education system that is at the core of children's lives and we must take on board the idea of social inclusion and proof any new legislation to ensure that it can provide for that. What do children say? We have circulated a document expressing the views of some groups of children. I approached a number of groups and asked them what they would like to do in relation to today's meeting. It did not seem practical to have them along—and, to be frank, one young person said that it might be a bit boring—and there was not much time to get ready. Given concerns about non-attendance, the head teacher and I also agreed that it would be ironic to take them out of school. Nevertheless, the children were happy to submit their views through me, and I have promised them that I will report back with members' responses. Members can see that I have chosen two groups. One was an older group of young people with disabilities, who specifically wanted to look at mainstream schooling and have included some messages about that. The second group comprised children from primary school classes. We had so many picture responses that I felt that I had to choose just one from each group—although, if members want, I can give out all the pictures. Some strong messages come out of those submissions. Those members who have studied other research and consultation projects will have noticed that we hear some of the themes again and again—choice on inclusive schooling, for example. Many responses concerned resources and called for more teachers in each classroom. Computers were also mentioned, as was equipment for arts and sport. Another important issue that was mentioned is that of playgrounds and recreational equipment, which the consultation paper on education does not address. The children's responses—one tends to get such responses when one asks children directly—represent a challenge to me and to members of this committee. We have not yet put the issue of playgrounds on the agenda, but, if we are really listening to children and young people, perhaps that should be a priority in the bill and in our education policy. Four pictures are attached to the document. The first three exemplify the children's views. The fourth one, about children being heard, was too good to leave out of the briefing. Children and young people are challenging us to ensure that their views are regularly and meaningfully considered in our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 104977,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. We have until 3.30 pm before we go on to other items on the agenda. There is therefore an hour for people to ask questions and put their views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bronwen Cohen: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 104980,
      "EditedText": "We agree with you. I will ask Kay to address that specific point."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 104981,
      "EditedText": "Can I check first that no one else wants to come in on that point?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C104987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kelly Bayes (Principal Policy and Practice Manager, Barnardo’s Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 104987,
      "EditedText": "Although it would be useful for children to come to the committee, it is also important that you go to them. You must be in their world and their environment. The children that we work with need the support of people that they know as it takes a long time to build up a relationship with them. We are working with some of the most disadvantaged, disabled and vulnerable children who need a lot of time and support to communicate with us so that we can help them. You must visit them in their world.People who have communication difficulties are the most vulnerable and excluded people. However, there are ways, perhaps using other agencies, to listen to their views. We are discussing not just those who can speak out with a little support but those who can never speak out, unless they are given very skilled support."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104989",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Doran: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 104989,
      "EditedText": "I wonder if there is an expectation that every school should have a pupil council and that every authority should have a student forum, just as there is a young persons parliament.Having representative groups is a good idea, but the challenge is to involve every child. To that end, we have had discussions with groups that have been excluded. We have talked to looked-after children about their experiences and have thought about how their views can inform the way in which policy is developed and implemented.We should commit ourselves to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. That comes through in all our proposals, such as the draft bill and our policy statements. Education and social work staff are being trained in how to listen to children. They are being told how to encourage children to record their views and are adopting methods such as circle time—something that is a bit like this committee—when everybody can talk about their feelings and their emotions.The focus has to be on citizenship. Children should be encouraged to come along to the area forum. Fiona, a 10-year-old girl, came to an area forum in Stirling and, in front of 100 adults, said that the underpass in St Ninians, which is on her way to school, had flooded and she could not cross the road because there was no school-crossing patrol. The councillor who was chairing the meeting asked the officials to do something about that. Within 10 days, technical services had installed a pump in the underpass and the children are now able to walk to school safely.Once children realise that they can make a difference in school and in the community, evidence shows that they actively take part."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 104991,
      "EditedText": "I would like to apologise to our guests for being late. The A9 remains a challenge to me.I want to ask what was said about a systematic approach. I agree with the idea that all groups of children should be included. I was involved in the highland youth parliament, a European Community initiative that was one of two youth parliaments in Scotland.Last night, we kicked off the Caithness youth forum, which has stolen a lead in the region. It involves 13 to 18-year-olds and is deliberately broadening beyond school into other youth groups. I would like to hear what you have to say about the suggestion that the mechanism that involves social work, the health boards and education might prove to be a vehicle for replicating forums or parliaments in local authorities. There are two dangers involved in that. One is tokenism: the youth parliament might be set up with a splash of publicity but be forgotten about a couple of years later. That is the situation that faces the highland youth parliament. The second danger is that only a few pupils from very large communities will be able to participate.I want to get down to the nuts and bolts of the matter. Do you have any thoughts about a systematic approach to establishing youth forums in local authority areas? I want to get down to the nitty-gritty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 104993,
      "EditedText": "That is an historic first for me in the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Anne Houston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 104995,
      "EditedText": "The other point to think about is the way in which young people communicate. Young people are very comfortable with a lot of the technology—much more than I am. Perhaps we should think creatively about user technology, particularly when we are trying to cover a broad geographic area.The kind of anonymity offered by that technology—from the experience of the telephone service that we run—can give people the confidence to say what they really think. There are some issues that we need to approach creatively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kelly Bayes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 105000,
      "EditedText": "It is also important to consider who supports such councils. Young people need support. They become involved in a youth parliament, but they are teenagers for such a short time and must constantly support younger children. That is about citizenship and participation. Education focuses very much on teaching and standards, but schools should be inclusive and should look at the possibility of other professions supporting children in schools.It should not just be about a teacher who perhaps has the time to encourage some young people to be involved in the school council; it should be about reaching all children and allowing them to have a say in a creative and enthusiastic way. That need not just come from the teaching profession, but could come from other professions in schooling. Ideas about community schooling involve other professions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 105005,
      "EditedText": "I propose that for the last five or 10 minutes we try to bring together what we have discussed and examine whether there are proposals that the committee wants to take forward. I do not want to lose out after the informative discussion that we have had."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 105007,
      "EditedText": "I would like to throw in a question on the back of Nicola's point about school boards, and come back to something that Kelly raised. I am keen that those who choose to attend mainstream schools can do so, but special schools still exist. In my experience, parents with children at special schools find it difficult to take part in school boards, because of the impracticality of coming to meetings at certain times. That has caused some problems in the special schools sector, so how can we address the issue of involving those parents?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 105009,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of issues that you might want to comment on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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      "ID": 2135,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Doran: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 105013,
      "EditedText": "We want a commitment to involving every parent and every child. Representative groups are important, but the challenge for them is to engage and involve the wider body of parents. That goes back to pre-school and the integrated family support work that is done by community workers, social workers, educationists and educators in the early-years service. They seek from the earliest stages to engage parents in the education and care agenda.Also important is the commitment, through new community schools and community learning plans, to adults' achieving their potential and being involved in the education of their children. A representative school board is not enough.The point was made that parental choice needs to be rethought and parental preference considered. The majority of board members should be parents, but parents might want to involve others in working groups, for example. I know that in several places parents have encouraged the voluntary sector or children to become involved in sub-groups associated with the school board.We must recognise that there are many ways of engaging more parents in the classroom or in workshops. However, we also need to recognise that many parents do not have the childminding facilities that would enable them to come to the school and that others do not like being at meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Tisdall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 105015,
      "EditedText": "There were many questions, so I will try to keep my responses short.Nicola Sturgeon asked how the bill could improve wider attainment. It would help if the principles were set out at the beginning of the legislation and if cross-agency were built in. The plans should be explicitly co-ordinated and there should be a framework that makes sense to the poor local authority that is trying to balance education with other sectors. The bill should also co-ordinate with the 1995 act. Practitioners are not helped by conflicts between different pieces of legislation, although such conflicts can be resolved.Increasingly, performance indicators are leading education. We need to ensure that they do not offer perverse incentives. If there is to be greater emphasis on performance indicators, we must come up with more innovative indicators—qualitative as well as quantitative. They could include school councils and frameworks within which children's views can be expressed.On parental participation, we mentioned earlier that children and young people could raise issues that challenge us as adults. That is a challenge for schools. We talk about parental participation, but how far do we expect parents' views to challenge the way in which education works? We should take that into account. Although we rightly encourage parental participation, we must remember that some children have parents who, for whatever reason, are not active. Our policies must not disadvantage those children. The key to expanding parental participation—as with school councils—is not to focus solely on school boards. As a general principle, we advocate parental participation as part of a holistic approach to education.Finally, we were asked to expand on what we meant by parental preference and choice. Some parents associations gave Children in Scotland detailed accounts of the changes that they want in the terminology. A parental request can be refused because it might require a teacher later on, and it can be difficult to project future needs in cases in which children are moved from area to area. There are questions about that, and it was Children in Scotland's view that that provision would not be helpful and might constrain parental choice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Tisdall: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 105023,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Kenneth Macintosh made a precise point about what some of the indicators could be. I have already mentioned that children's views can be both qualitative and quantitative. To try to ensure that all of us—including schools—are listening to children, one thing that could be required is a biannual customer survey. Schools could be required to consider doing that—probably not by themselves, as that would be problematic. They could consider bringing in a voluntary organisation to do that. The idea is a bit mechanistic, but to get the schools' response to that would be the beginning of a framework for it.The new community schools might provide another model. There is much evaluation, and they are working on their performance indicators and trying to get a holistic view. Perhaps lessons could be learned from that, on matters such as health and the take-up of free school meals. Some schools issue tickets, and it is then obvious that the child has free meals. There are different ways of doing that. A problem with the new community schools evaluation, at least in the draft paper, is that performance indicators will be largely quantitative. There is an issue of how we can reward schools that have the qualitative performance indicators that Ian Welsh talked about at a national level, if we are to be led by such indicators. That would be a start. At Children in Scotland, we are having further meetings to try to get more detail.I want to talk about the principles if I may, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 105024,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C105026",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Doran: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 105026,
      "EditedText": "I want to say a few words about performance indicators. The key performance indicators that are currently reported by each council—for education services, as an example—to the Accounts Commission are the five to 14 levels of attainment. Those levels of attainment have been proven time and again to be neither valid nor reliable. There is an issue if those levels are used as a key indicator of performance in primary schools, in particular, and for years S1 and S2 in secondary schools.Another ridiculous key performance indicator for special educational needs is the time that it takes a teacher to complete a record of needs. That has nothing to do with the quality or involvement of the child. The time that it takes to complete such a record is the only key performance indicator for children with special educational needs. The exam performance statistics are more robust, but we must examine seriously how success is indicated, particularly in the five to 14 age group.If the Scottish Executive is committed to social inclusion, the question must be, \"How do we know that its measures are working?\" A lot of money was put into the early intervention programme because we were committed to children's achievement through early intervention. According to last week's edition of The Times Educational Supplement, research shows that the more advantaged children are doing better, but who is tracking the most disadvantaged and vulnerable youngsters? That challenge must be faced. Crude statistics are not enough: we need to go deeper. As Bronwen said, we need to spend more time addressing that issue.I should like to pick up Ian's point about integrated working. I do not think that one service configuration has the answer, but the training issues of those who provide services to children and young people in families must be addressed. That relates to training institutions, such as those that provide teacher training. Why is not training integrated, such that trainees work and train with the health service and social workers? Some of the development work in our authority involves work shadowing and job exchanges across the health, social work and education services.Training and shared understanding is one way to address the matter, but another is to take a task-focused approach, such as on health promotion in schools, so that people work to a model that examines all the local performance indicators to see whether they are achieving success, and to determine whether they are involving children, young people in families and communities.The other area that requires task-focused training is that of looked-after children. Some of the children were most concerned that health, social work and education services should work together and examine joint approaches to the needs of looked-after children. Those concerns are not reflected in the bill. The problem with the focus being solely on education services is that it does not take account of the integrated education and care agenda. A child-centred approach needs to take account of that agenda. That does not necessarily mean addressing structures; it is a way of thinking that should be reflected at national and local level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 105033,
      "EditedText": "We must."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 105037,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I want the committee to spend the last two or three minutes discussing how we will progress this item. It has been a useful discussion and several points have been raised and questions answered, but other questions arise on the back of the discussion. About four areas arose from the discussion, on which I would like more information. We might want to examine in more detail a number of the reports and papers mentioned by the witnesses. The first of the four areas that I noted was how the committee should handle consultation with children, both on the bill and generally. That includes how we take into account the needs of children with special needs and of children who have been excluded from the education system, who might be less approachable or more difficult to contact directly. How do we get over those difficulties? We would like further information on that. The second area is citizenship and the matter of expanding on the bill and including responsibility. The third is children with special needs and the fourth is looked-after children and how we relate to them. Was there anything else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C105039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 105039,
      "EditedText": "Last night, people in Caithness asked me who would pay for all this; I touched on the issue of resources. By encouraging a holistic approach including health boards and so on, one might be able to do something without radically affecting present budgets. Where there is a will, there is a way. We have a duty to consider resources, otherwise, as Fiona said, we are in danger of producing nothing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 105040,
      "EditedText": "We are in danger of talking but not achieving."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 105044,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that Peter Peacock said at our previous meeting that the youth parliament will get a chance to consider the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 105045,
      "EditedText": "He said that, but he did not give us a date. When is the next meeting of the youth parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 105046,
      "EditedText": "We will say that we are keen for the youth parliament to consider the bill and that we want to know when that will happen.Once again, I thank witnesses for attending this meeting. It has been very useful and I look forward to taking our work on this forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 105047,
      "EditedText": "The second item on the agenda is the children's promise. Fiona wants to say a few words."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 105048,
      "EditedText": "It is important that every member of this committee signs up to say that their last hour's pay in the millennium will go towards supporting children in Scotland. The list of the charities to which the money will go includes some very reputable Scottish charities to which, I am sure, all of us will be happy to contribute.The committee should ask every MSP to do it. We should set an example, but we should expect everyone to follow our lead. This is a public way in which we can be more than the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, but can be the committee that is here for children.The New Millennium Experience Company will be helped if we sign up soon, if we do so together and if we give the matter a lot of publicity. One of this committee's roles is to bring items to public's attention.I am happy to say that Alex Salmond has signed up for the millennium final hour appeal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C105049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 105049,
      "EditedText": "That rules me out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 105050,
      "EditedText": "One party leader is signed up; we have to get all 129 MSPs.The millennium final hour appeal is part of the children's promise project. I do not have a lot of information on it; I would have liked David Watt to come and talk to us about it. We might want to have a written briefing on the children's promise project. I know that there was talk of setting up a working group that would include an MSP from each party and staff from the Parliament.We are a brand new Parliament with everybody looking at us all the time. We have wonderful opportunities to do positive things and, as the committee that deals with children, it behoves us to lead the way on an issue that affects children.Many people ask how the improvement in Scottish education bill will improve Scottish children's lives. The millennium final hour appeal is one small thing that we can do that will improve Scottish children's lives. I implore everybody to sign up. Let us, as a committee, put the appeal to the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C105057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Children's Promise",
      "HeadingID": 2136,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ID": 2136,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 105057,
      "EditedText": "I mean the Glasgow one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 2137,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2137,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 105065,
      "EditedText": "What about the provisional programme for future meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C105066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 2137,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ID": 2137,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 105066,
      "EditedText": "The only firmly agreed item is that the committee wanted to invite Mrs Brankin. We hope that she will be able to attend on 9 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C105069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 2137,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2137,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 105069,
      "EditedText": "I agree. I also want to ensure that when we visit community schools we do not speak just to teachers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C105070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 2137,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2137,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 105070,
      "EditedText": "That is very important. The nature of community schools is that more than just teachers are involved. We want to get the views of all those involved, even if that means hearing about the difficulties. That would be just as useful as hearing how well the schools are working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2933669+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2135,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 2135,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 105006,
      "EditedText": "I want to move on to some of the specific points that are addressed in the policy briefing, and which relate to the education bill.My first point relates to Anne Houston's comments. I was very interested to hear Anne's thoughts on putting education's purpose into context. That is an area in which the bill in its current form is deficient. It tends to isolate education and to examine it in a formulaic way. Some good points were made about incorporation of some of the principles of the UN convention on children's rights.There is a broader concern that the bill as it is tends to view education in terms of measuring attainment against performance indicators. We have discussed this previously in the committee. There is a need to put education in a much wider context.One of the commitments that was made in the partnership agreement between Labour and the Liberal Democrats was that business, civic and environmental education would be encouraged. It is important that we recognise that as well as producing children who can read, write and count, which is important, we should produce informed citizens. Does the panel have any views on whether there is anything that can be done in the context of the bill to encourage that approach rather than the narrower approach taken by the bill?I have a couple of questions relating to the relevant statistics that are mentioned in the briefing paper. Those statistics are useful because they highlight the fact that most of the factors that influence educational attainment are external to the system. We must relate the system to some of the wider issues in society.There is a statistic given on the number of children who are eligible for free school meals. I have a couple of questions on free school meals. The first is on the rate of take-up. You give the statistic of the number of children who are eligible, but evidence suggests that a high number of those children do not take up free school meals. Why is that the case? Are there barriers to take-up that could be overcome?Secondly, do you have a view on extending the entitlement to free school meals beyond the current entitlement, which covers only kids whose parents are on income support?I agree with your comment that the majority of parents on school boards should be elected, which is very important if we are to reinforce the credibility of school boards. However, I wanted to probe a little on two statements in your briefing paper.\"Parental participation should be considered beyond School Boards.\"I agree very much, but how do you think that that can be done?\"Parental choice provision should be rethought, to reflect their true status as ‘parental preference.'\"Is that a comment on placement requests?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C105068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 526
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Meetings",
      "HeadingID": 2137,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 227.0,
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      "ID": 2137,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 105068,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that. My only amendment would be to suggest, as I did at our previous meeting, that we do not visit just community schools. It may benefit us to visit other types of school."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
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    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 45,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andrew Welsh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 2732,
      "EditedText": "If everyone is ready, I will open this meeting on the value-for-money report \"Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs\".I must start with some housekeeping. Andrew Wilson and Euan Robson send their apologies, and Nick Johnston has been involved in a car accident. Thankfully, he seems to be all right, but we send him our best wishes in the hope that he is really okay and will be with us soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
      "HeadingID": 46,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 2735,
      "EditedText": "Welcome. Will Professor Sizer introduce his team?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
      "HeadingID": 46,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 2737,
      "EditedText": "I bid you a joint welcome. You must be keen to start.Do you think that this report is fair and that the information that it contains is accurate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2740",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 15
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 2740,
      "EditedText": "Let us consider financial health, as it is outlined in the report. To set the context for today's session, it would be helpful if you could give an outline of your view of the state of further education colleges, the financial priorities of the sector and how you envisage the sector developing in the near future."
    },
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  },
  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 2742,
      "EditedText": "Professor Sizer, do you want to add anything to that?"
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 2744,
      "EditedText": "Committee members are having difficulty hearing you. Could you lift your microphone, please? That would help."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2747",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
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      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 2747,
      "EditedText": "Primarily, it is up to the Scottish Further Education Funding Council to consider the situation and to deal with it. In understanding how the deficits have arisen, it is important to be aware that a significant contributory factor has been the cost of restructuring. In four years during the 1990s, that cost amounted to as much as £10 million a year for the sector. Restructuring is part of the process of looking for cost efficiencies, and includes staffing changes and so on. If those costs are taken out of the equation, the deficits are not quite as large as they appear. I do not want to minimise the situation, however, as there is a need to examine the financial management of the sector to determine what further efficiencies can be achieved to enable the deficits to be reduced and eliminated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2751",
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 2751,
      "EditedText": "We wish you well in your work."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2763",
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      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 2763,
      "EditedText": "The list that you have read out is a classic list of things that a public sector manager must do to reduce costs in an organisation where staffing accounts for a significant proportion of costs. That is where the options for saving lie, and the great challenge for public sector managers is how you reduce costs that have an impact on staff, and at the same time maintain quality and staff motivation. If I have any criticism of the report it is that what is missing is any recognition of the fact that that kind of change process is stressful for the staff involved, and that without their engagement one will not be very successful in achieving one's management objectives.There is no easy answer to how one does that. However, it is clear from the best practice colleges that there are ways in which one can make staff more effective. Those colleges have shown that their staff are more effective: there has been a significant increase in productivity, as measured in the report, which states that productivity per member of teaching staff has increased by just less than a third over the period. There are things that can be done that do not necessarily have serious effects on staff but, undoubtedly, staffing is an area that must be examined if substantial inroads are to be made into making efficiencies in the public sector."
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  {
    "ID": "C2765",
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      "ID": 15
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 2765,
      "EditedText": "You asked how we would ensure that quality was maintained. The report says that there is a question of how far we can continue to achieve efficiency gains and maintain quality, but it does not provide any information about how quality changed during the period of the study. My understanding is that the inspectorate's previous examination of the sector suggested that while there was evidence of staff resources being stretched as the changes were implemented, quality had not suffered.My council now has a service level agreement with the inspectorate and will be receiving regular reports from it on the quality of teaching and learning. Clearly, we will need to take those into account as we make funding decisions, but we have already indicated to the sector that we think that the maximum overall growth that the sector can achieve in 2000-01 is 5 per cent with a 1 per cent efficiency gain, and that for many colleges growth will be significantly less than 5 per cent.We need a period of stability. We need to build on the best practices that are mentioned in the report, but we also must recognise that in the end, as Mr Frizzell said, change can only be managed if people buy into that change, and that takes one back to the quality of management. Clearly, there is evidence of variable management in the sector, and that is why we have been asked to undertake a management review. One key aspect of that will be what best practice is in human resource management and how to promulgate it to the sector. I fully identify with what you said when you asked the question."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2767",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 2767,
      "EditedText": "I will follow the convener's line of questioning laterally. You talked about the effect of the financial squeeze during the past few years. Why did so many colleges go into deficit so soon after coming under central Government control? Is it simply a matter of financial squeeze, a combination of that with, as perhaps you are suggesting, a lack of financial management priorities, or are there more structural reasons that would be worth addressing?"
    },
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  {
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    "Committee": {
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "EditedText": "Professor Sizer, I think some of the committee members want you to shout at them. Could you please pull your microphone towards you? Lewis Macdonald, do you have another question?"
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      "EditedText": "Which colleague is it to be—Mr Reeves or Mrs Bell? It is Mrs Bell."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Colin Reeves (Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Department, Scottish Executive): ",
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      "EditedText": "I have nothing to add."
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      "EditedText": "I have to be careful about what I say in public about individual colleges. I do not want to break confidences. Are you content for me to name the colleges, convener?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Arwel Roberts (National Audit Office): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
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      "EditedText": "We would be content to get that information as written evidence, if the committee is happy with that."
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      "EditedText": "Do you want to add to that, Mr Frizzell?"
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      "EditedText": "It would not be appropriate for me to comment on the historical trends, as I have had responsibility only since 1 July. I believe that a table on overdrafts and interest was made available to committee officials. We identified six colleges that had high levels of overdraft in relation to total borrowing: some were in the process of converting overdrafts and short-term loans into long-term loans; some had debt relating to particular building developments; and some I have asked my colleagues to find out more about. We have only just started the process of analysing the overall financial data, so it is difficult for me to go too far at this point."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
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      "EditedText": "I accept that you are not responsible for the series of years of deficit, but I asked about the cost of the deficit, not the cost of capital loans for developments or buildings. In each year in the period, across the sector, the majority of colleges has had a deficit, which must be financed. It is a question not only of capital works, but of the revenue deficit. You are saying that it is easy to squeeze out another 1 per cent, but if there is a revenue deficit and the money is coming from the bank, will that be an additional 1 per cent that has to be found?"
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      "EditedText": "I am not offering that as an authoritative figure—I would be unwise to do so. However, one could make the calculation. If members want it done exactly, we would be required to go back through the college accounts. Your point, Mr Adam, is well made and has been taken on board. If colleges have to fund accumulating deficits, that money could be spent on something else, such as provision, and therefore it is important that recovery plans are put in place and that the deficits are wiped out. There is no question but that the funding council takes that on board."
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      "EditedText": "But given that the original forecast for 1998-99 was £15.5 million and the latest outturn for the deficit is £22.6 million, what confidence can we have that the initial forecast of £11.8 million for the current year is not going to be considerably higher?"
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
      "HeadingID": 46,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 2826,
      "EditedText": "Professor Sizer might have something to say about this. That £13 million is an arithmetical calculation that is based on the difference between high cost colleges and the median. The report recognises that it is not necessarily possible to save all of that £13 million through benchmarking or other management tools that might be put in place to improve efficiency.There is a raft of efficiency measures that one hopes will be implemented in colleges and begin to drive down the average cost and release savings of that kind. I urge caution—that £13 million is a matter of arithmetic using the recorded difference between the median unit cost and the higher unit cost and is based on a drift towards the median.The report recognises that managing colleges is complex and that, for a variety of reasons, not all colleges can necessarily achieve year-on-year decreases in unit costs towards the median level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    },
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      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 2830,
      "EditedText": "I am anxious to get as complete an answer as possible, but we have to press on."
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  {
    "ID": "C2832",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 2832,
      "EditedText": "We will build into the management review the first three stages of the process that is recommended in the report. The consultants who undertake the management review will not only identify best practice, they will identify the barriers to change and the ways in which they ought to be addressed. It is difficult at the moment to say what the specific barriers are, but we know that there are some examples of good practice. Some colleges are not well managed and we must identify them. We may have to change the management rather than the practices. We cannot assume that because we can identify best practice, all managers are capable of delivering it. Another key aspect will be management development in the sector, including best practice in human resource management, management succession and management development. We will address all those things in the review. If I could tell you today what the barriers are and what needs to be done about them, there would be no need to undertake the management review that ministers have asked for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C2833",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 2833,
      "EditedText": "To what extent is quality being maintained in the face of cost pressures and the growth in student numbers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2838",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 2838,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to the section on benchmarking."
    },
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  {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 2839,
      "EditedText": "Gentlemen, we seem to have done a lot of knitting this afternoon, but I am still unclear about the shape of the jumper, so I will go back to some general areas. I have a simple question: what criteria do you apply to determine whether a further education college is a success or a failure?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2840",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
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      "EditedText": "There are a number of performance indicators, and there is no doubt scope to develop more. Some time ago, the department required colleges to have particular performance indicators—they are in the report—to do with student retention and performance, and so on. Those must be considered alongside the financial criteria. It is for the funding council to develop performance indicators further and to decide what the appropriate measures are. Another term that is used in the report is critical success factors—I am not sure whether they are exactly the same as performance indicators. Critical success factors being met, units costs being kept under control and greater convergence of unit costs are all indicators of success in the sector, alongside, of course, output measures such as of whether students are completing their courses and getting jobs or moving on to higher education—a whole raft of things. It is important to have a balanced scoreboard—to use modern management jargon—on this, and not to assume that the criteria are only to do with costs, important though costs are."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2842",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 2842,
      "EditedText": "It is vital that colleges know what is expected of them. That was provided for in the past by advice from the department. It is provided for in the guidance that is given to the funding council by the department, and I am confident that it will be provided for in the funding council's work."
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  {
    "ID": "C2847",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
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      "EditedText": "On the basis of my experience of the Higher Education Funding Council, I can say that the way in which things are unfolding in the Further Education Funding Council does not suggest that there will be any problems. It is early days, and I am learning about further education every day—including today."
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2848",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 2848,
      "EditedText": "I have a supplementary question: do you see any anomalies in the division?"
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
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      "EditedText": "I am sorry—I have a cold.One thing that has fascinated me is the fact that, in effect, although funding councils advise ministers on the funding requirements of the sector, they do not have direct discussions with ministers and are not party to discussions within the department. Each case has to be handled by officials in terms of the division of the Scottish block. I think that under the procedures that you are about to implement, the process will be much more transparent. The present system has slightly frustrated me. I would have preferred to sit around the table and argue the case for further and higher education against other departments, rather than have other people do it for me—although I am not complaining about the way in which officials have represented the council's views. Did you have something particular in mind when you asked the question?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2853",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 2853,
      "EditedText": "I think that you have described the area between yourself and the people who are pulling the strings where there might be a lacuna. Your response has been helpful."
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  {
    "ID": "C2855",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 2855,
      "EditedText": "If I had a pound for every chief executive of a non-departmental public body who said that, I would be sunning myself in the Bahamas today instead of answering your questions."
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2856",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 2856,
      "EditedText": "Nice thought."
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2857",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 2857,
      "EditedText": "In one of his early answers, Professor Sizer mentioned that the boards of management have a primary responsibility for what happens in individual colleges. Should boards of management exercise a collective responsibility?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2860",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 2860,
      "EditedText": "Given that the funding council is new, how will it determine the allocation of funds? If that sounds like a very broad question, let me help. Will parallels be drawn with the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council, for example?"
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 2861,
      "EditedText": "Our experience in education has given us key skills that we have brought to bear on our work in the council. As I explained, the FE funding council has established a funding steering group to advise it on the development of the new funding methodology. The council makes decisions and consultation takes place with the sector. Inevitably, a large proportion of the funds that the council allocates will be driven by a funding formula. However, there will be other funds. Three funds of £1 million are being allocated for specific strategic purposes. My council has already indicated that, if we are going to address strategic changes in the sector, we might have to create a larger strategic fund to oil the wheels for the journey.The FE sector is a different animal from the HE sector: there is a more diverse range of provision and more variability; courses are much shorter; and there is not the same underpinning of four-year and three-year undergraduate programmes as there is in higher education. FE institutions would quickly let me know if they felt that we were developing a funding model based simply on the experience of the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2863",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 2863,
      "EditedText": "As I was not the accounting officer when the report was published, I was not party to its generation. I have had much experience in these areas. I would have wanted to discuss the recommendations in the framework with colleagues at the National Audit Office. I am particularly concerned about the recommendations that a performance management unit should be established within the funding council and that the council should undertake independent verification and validation visits. That would create an inspection regime. My extensive experience—not just in Britain, but across Europe—of performance indicators has shown me that, if institutions do not have ownership, data are produced rather than information. The key role of funding councils is to facilitate and support the development of benchmarking processes. The issue is not just about producing cost data, but about identifying critical success factors and key processes. Implementing best practice for processes results in greater efficiency, which is then reflected in cost data. It is important that there is ownership and that the sector buys into it.Benchmarking underpins everything in many private sector companies. Scottish Power, for example, benchmarks itself against all sorts of companies around the world—they all work together and do not use some unit from outside. I have discussed this issue with colleagues in the National Audit Office, with which I have good relations, and they can see my point. I certainly see the first three recommendations as important parts of our work. It is too early to say how the report will be reflected in the management review, but I am sure that a large part of it will be reflected. I may have to come back to explain how we have taken the report on board and acted on it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2866",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
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      "EditedText": "As I say, I want to consider that as part of the overall management review, but clearly that review will identify best practice and the funding council will want to develop an action plan to support the sector in implementing that best practice. That is clear from the brief that we had from ministers and the overall view of the council. There is some good best practice out there, and there have been some outstanding performances. We have to ensure that everybody acts on best practice, although that is part of the overall management of the colleges."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2870",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 2870,
      "EditedText": "Can you assure us that the teams that are working with the 13 colleges that are in trouble are working on the kind of arrangement that we are discussing? If the data are not available, the work cannot be done."
    },
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
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      "EditedText": "I cannot argue with that, but the important thing is to ask why the success rate is as low as that. It is difficult to draw conclusions in a forum such as this, where we are examining raw figures, but any management worth its salt would ask why. On benchmarking, for example, they would ask how another college with a similar course had a 90 per cent achievement rate. Performance indicators are important in ensuring that management raise questions, investigate and try to find explanations. If there is no good explanation, action must be taken. That is the real value of having a range of performance indicators. I do not regard the performance indicators that have been promulgated as necessarily the end of the story. The funding council will be expected to consider a reasonable range of measures for the sector. The public expect output to be measured. What people do when they finish a course is an important measure for an educational establishment. The retention rate—the extent to which students stick with a course—is another important measure. If students drop out after a short time, questions must be asked about the quality of the provision, about whether the wrong people were recruited and so on. There is scope to develop such indicators to enable management to ask the correct questions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2880",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 2880,
      "EditedText": "Market day is wearing late. I have two final questions for both witnesses. Do you accept the five recommendations on page 5 of the report? Within what time scale will they be implemented?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2881",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
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      "EditedText": "As I indicated, the report is valuable. If I had had the opportunity, I might have included a discussion of the role of the funding council—I have had such a discussion since. The report will be taken on board in the management review. We have had to go through the European Union process for contracting, so we have asked ministers whether we can now report to them in May next year, which will be the first stage. We will report to them on the findings of the review and on the action that we intend to take. The report will feed into that and will be reflected in the recommendations. The implementation process will be continuous, because we are in the business of ensuring continuous improvements in quality and in all aspects of management. We can never stand still."
    },
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 2733,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Mr Frizzell, Professor Sizer and their teams. Will Mr Frizzell introduce his team?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Eddie Frizzell (Secretary and Head of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Department, Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 2734,
      "EditedText": "As the committee knows, I was recently appointed head of the Scottish Executive enterprise and lifelong learning department, which comprises parts of the former education and industry department of the Scottish Office. I am supported by Colin Reeves, who is head of the further education division of the department, and by Riona Bell, who was formerly a member of the further education division, with particular responsibility for funding formulas and financial monitoring. She is currently on loan to the new Scottish funding councils for further and higher education."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2739",
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 2739,
      "EditedText": "I understand that it is an accurate report. I was not party to the preparation of the report, therefore I can only say that, from my reading of it, it seems a useful and valuable report that I shall build on."
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  {
    "ID": "C2741",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
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      "EditedText": "I will try to answer that question myself. If I get into difficulty—bearing in mind that I have been in my post for only a month—I hope that you will not mind if I refer some points to my colleagues.My view of the financial health of the sector is that, clearly, there has been an emerging problem as a result of the funding squeeze and the significant growth in student numbers throughout the mid-1990s. Among other things, those factors have given rise to the position that is recorded in the report: there are deficits in a number of colleges. The Government has recognised some of the difficulties, and a substantial amount of additional money has been allocated to the colleges.The report reflects not only a reduction in funding, combined with increasing student numbers, but variations in management practices in the colleges. Some managers have been better at tackling issues of cost control than others, and there is work to be done to address that. A major priority for the Scottish Further Education Funding Council is to progress work on financial management, to encourage managers to look to efficiencies and the managing of their financial positions."
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  {
    "ID": "C2743",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
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      "EditedText": "You have been given the financial analysis in the report. We have provided you with the financial forecast that we received. There are indications of some improvement in the position of the income and expenditure account, but, overall, the liquidity position in the balance sheet is not strong and there are issues that must be addressed. As Mr Frizzell says, the Scottish Further Education Funding Council and my colleagues will address those issues."
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2746",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
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      "EditedText": "The general pattern is that, after four years of incorporation, significant real-terms efficiency gains have been made. However, around half the colleges are not recovering their direct operating costs, and 40 out of 43 colleges expect overall deficits. Cost efficiency has, so far, led to deficits. What do you intend to do about that?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2749",
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      "EditedText": "I am sure that we will catch up with this.Are the deficits endemic? We are told that there are special circumstances. Revenue deficits are, however, predicted to continue. Are you sure, Professor Sizer, that mechanisms exist that can catch those deficits early and can alleviate the problem in the long run? Are you convinced that the mechanism that exists now will not only be able to—"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 2752,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
      "HeadingID": 46,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 2754,
      "EditedText": "Thirteen colleges account for around 69 per cent of the operating deficit. Of those 13, six to eight are particularly serious. For a number of those we have already either inherited or agreed action plans which we are monitoring carefully. For the remaining colleges, my accountants are working with theirs to develop plans. I have no money to bail out the colleges. We must sit down with them, address the way in which they will face up to their problems and give them as much help as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2755",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 2755,
      "EditedText": "I presume that the two colleges mentioned in the report are among the 13?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2756",
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      "ID": 15
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
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      "ContributionID": 2756,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2757",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 103
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 2757,
      "EditedText": "In the medium to longer term, capital assets are deteriorating and the routine maintenance of buildings and other assets is being abandoned to reduce revenue costs. Are we not heading for the worst of all possible worlds—revenue deficits and deteriorating capital assets? Does your quest for revenue savings not, by definition, also mean massive future problems for capital assets? How are you addressing that situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2758",
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      "ID": 15
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 2758,
      "EditedText": "I mentioned earlier that I am commissioning a condition survey to give me a thorough understanding of the state of the estate, the extent to which there is a backlog of maintenance problems and the extent to which physical assets need to be replaced. Only once that survey is complete can I assess the full implications of the problem, and my council will wish to advise ministers of the outcome of the survey. It is difficult for me to say how far the indicative funding for estates in the comprehensive spending review will match the requirements. On the surface, the balance sheet analysis suggests that the sector has serious liquidity problems. It is not generating surpluses in order to maintain its assets intact and it will have difficulty replacing assets or creating new capacity unless additional funding is available. At the moment, I cannot say to what extent the funding that has been indicated matches the requirements of the sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2759",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
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    "Time": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 2759,
      "EditedText": "How can you cure the problem if the new money is a one-off directed to increasing the number of students, which in many ways may accelerate the problem? How do you cure the in-built problem of revenue deficits and capital deterioration if there is no new revenue?"
    },
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Do you wish to add to that, professor?"
    },
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
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      "EditedText": "If Mr Macdonald wants to discuss the intricacies of formula funding, I can pass him to one of my colleagues. However, I will make a general observation. To some extent, the funding mechanism encouraged colleges both to compete with one another, which helped to increase any natural growth in access to further education, and to market courses to get students in.Since 1997, the Government has stated that it wants to increase access and has underpinned that policy with additional money through the comprehensive spending review. However, the increase in student numbers would probably have happened anyway and was perhaps encouraged by the funding mechanism. If committee members want to go into that subject in more detail, I can hand over to one of my colleagues."
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Riona Bell (Scottish Funding Councils for Further and Higher Education): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 2774,
      "EditedText": "We have to go back to the inherited position at incorporation. Colleges were funded by individual local authorities on the basis of budgeted expenditure and levels of funding varied considerably between colleges. One of the early objectives of the funding methodology was to converge the levels of funding.The other factor that contributed to the significant growth of the sector was the retrospective basis of funding. The formula uses the most recent available audited student activity figures, but those are almost two years old by the time that they are usable. That was necessary early on because there was no record—and certainly no forward projections—of student activity.The early formula was designed with those objectives in mind and had to be phased in over three years because of the wide range of inherited levels. The sector would have been totally destabilised if an activity-based funding system had been introduced straightaway. By the end of the three years, funds were no longer increasing. The fact that total funds were not increasing at the same time as the funding method had begun to make colleges aware that they needed to keep up with sector growth to increase their funding was a coincidence, but it fuelled growth.The department recognised that. In 1997, there was a formal review of the funding methodology. One of the main recommendations was to incorporate a system of managed growth into the funding method. The department started the process of introducing the sort of forward-looking methodology that Professor Sizer has described and the funding council is taking that forward."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2778",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
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      "EditedText": "In a recent presentation at the Scottish Further Education Funding Council, we recognised that significant progress on convergence had been made since 1993. The sector has, measured in terms of unit cost, become more efficient.However, rapid growth has been achieved with static total funds and a reduced real level of funding. It is always easier to cope with change when growth is combined with extra funding, but the formula was complex, retrospective, volatile and unpredictable. The department had recognised those four criticisms and begun to address them. We are taking that forward. The aim is that colleges should be able to anticipate more clearly what their funding will be: they should be told well in advance and understand what is fundable and they should have a clear indication of what we intend to fund overall. That will produce a much more predictable and sustainable situation. We are making progress towards that and have set up a funding steering group that reports to the council. At each council meeting we make decisions about the next stages. We are also consulting with the sector and keeping it informed. I understand that colleges are happy with the way in which we are addressing this matter.New funding methodologies cannot be introduced overnight. That is why we propose a four-month interim period to align funding with the academic year. We hope to announce the new funding methodology in April next year and to implement it in August. That should place further education on broadly the same basis as higher education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2779",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
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      "EditedText": "I have one final point, Professor Sizer. May I draw your attention to paragraph 1.14 on page 14 of the report? It relates to the funding system that has applied until now and indicates that the department has had to assist two colleges in particular financial difficulties by employing external consultants, who have drawn up recovery plans. Those are extreme cases. However, you mentioned that you are monitoring 13 colleges closely. Could you tell us which colleges are experiencing serious difficulties and what steps you are taking to help them? Are you looking to the new funding system to assist their recovery?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2781",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 2781,
      "EditedText": "You could put the names in a written memorandum if you wish, so that you do not breach confidentiality. We are anxious to find out the truth."
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  {
    "ID": "C2784",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
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      "EditedText": "I would be happy to do that. As I said, there are six to eight cases among the 13 colleges. We already have in place recovery plans for a number of them. The rest have either been visited or will be visited in October. I am happy to provide a report on that; I am a little nervous about talking about individual colleges in public—unless colleagues in the National Audit Office think that it would be appropriate for me to do so."
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  {
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      "EditedText": "We would be content with written evidence."
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
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      "EditedText": "I understand Professor Sizer's nervousness. It is clear that a number of colleges in particular areas have struggled harder than others with financial constraints. For some communities, those colleges are important parts of the educational infrastructure. When, in certain localities, there are rumours of a college being in deep trouble, as there have been over the past couple of weeks, that can have a widespread impact. I am sure that the witnesses are well aware of that. There is purpose in seeking to identify to what extent the problems can be contained in the national structures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2790",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 2790,
      "EditedText": "In digging for the truth, we are also here to help."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C2791",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 2791,
      "EditedText": "On financial health, paragraph 1.21 on page 18 indicates a number of areas that the funding council will examine as a priority. Although not comprehensive, those areas give some indication of what may or may not be examined. I know that you have alluded to college funding and funding methodology, Professor Sizer, but could you expand on some of the other work that is being done on management structure?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2792",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 2792,
      "EditedText": "A steering group is handling the management review and we are close to interviewing and appointing consultants. An interim financial memorandum was issued based on the previous financial memorandum of the Scottish Office education and industry department. By the end of October, we will be consulting the sector on a new financial memorandum, which will be in place by April 2000. We have established an audit committee, which met on 13 September. Its members have a wide range of skills; they have been fully apprised of the information that has been made available to members of the Scottish Parliament Audit Committee and the information on the 13 colleges to which I have referred. We have established a series of committees of the council as well as working groups. A teaching and learning group is advising the council on quality improvement, standards, flexible learning, teaching delivery, communications, information technology and widening access. The funding steering group will be giving detailed consideration to the review of funding methodologies and will be making recommendations to the council. A strategic development committee will examine strategic and structural change and development within the sector. Afterwards, it will consider strategy, policy and mechanisms for the improvement and development of the sector, as well as institutional planning, sector analysis, provision review, collaboration, rationalisation and mergers. It will commission a survey about the adequacy of provision and, in particular, supply and demand across Scotland. We do not have a clear understanding at the moment of how far demand matches regional provision.One of the early actions of our audit committee will be to introduce a code of audit practice based on the revised code that was recently issued by the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council. The draft code will be issued to all the colleges and to interested parties for consultation, which will be considered by the audit committee. The final code will be issued no later than April 2000, although I am conscious that I will have to link up with the Auditor General for Scotland to consider the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill, which is currently before Parliament. You may know that I was a member of the financial issues advisory group, and I will build on that experience.Work has been undertaken on best practice in procurement in higher education across the United Kingdom and we want to build on that and carry it into further education. I mentioned the role of Her Majesty's inspectorate and the memorandum of understanding that we have with it, as well as the outline service agreements. We will review all the existing quality control mechanisms with the large number of bodies involved so that we can move to coherent and integrated quality assurance mechanisms. We will also investigate the development of the integrated academic-financial-physical plans—which have not previously existed—that will allow us to get to grips with those issues. Those are some of the things that we have done in the first few months, but I will go on if you wish."
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 2793,
      "EditedText": "No, we get the impression that you have not been unbusy."
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
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      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I expected such a comprehensive list, but you have clearly been addressing the issues that were set for you. I heard you talk about strategic and structural change. Am I right in thinking that part of that would be a reappraisal of what individual colleges offer? There appears to be no rhyme or reason to the geographical location of colleges—that is an historical accident. Colleges that I thought were offering relatively specialist courses—some of the Glasgow colleges, for example—appear also to offer very general courses, which are duplicated at other institutions. Are we looking, in the near future, at a merger of a number of further education institutions? Would that help the financial plight in which a number of them have found themselves?"
    },
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
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      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is anything to add to that. Clearly, collaboration is the main issue at the moment. We await any proposals for mergers that may arise, but there is all to play for."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 2802,
      "EditedText": "Looking at figures 9 and 10, which are to be found on pages 15 and 16 of the report, will the witnesses comment on the fact that we appear to have had deficits year on year, from £7.8 million five years ago to a projected £22 million in the coming year, and that, in each of those years, more than half the colleges were in deficit? I know that both the witnesses are relatively new to their posts, but the matter relates to a period when central Government had responsibility. To allow the situation to drift for this long may be a measure of irresponsibility. We have talked about the 1 per cent efficiency savings. Each year, there have been deficits—into millions of pounds—that must be financed. That means that money is being spent not on education, but on bank loans. Can we have some measure of the proportion of income that is being spent on servicing debt, as opposed to on providing education? Why has such a drift been allowed to happen? There are five years of deficits. Several more years of deficit are projected, with the net asset value dropping over the five-year period by 18 per cent. We cannot keep losing assets in such a way."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
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      "EditedText": "The situation, surely, is that even allowing for your three years to remove those exceptional items, the last two years have shown a deficit and there are continued projected deficits. In fact, the overall deficit position is not improving—it is worsening. I asked a fairly specific question about servicing that debt. What is it costing? What proportion of the budget is going on servicing debt rather than providing education? I am not talking about servicing capital debt—I refer to revenue debt."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
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      "EditedText": "We could not tell you that unless we went back through all the college accounts to separate out what the loan or overdraft payments are for. We could make a very rough calculation. When the restructuring costs are removed from the £22 million, if the real deficit is something like £13 million or £14 million, one could work out what sort of interest rates might be paid. If the colleges have to borrow to fund that, one would get a figure of possibly £1 million or so. Against the overall funding of £300 million, that is quite a small figure."
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  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2814",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
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      "EditedText": "It is 0.3 per cent."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2816",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 2816,
      "EditedText": "Excluding the three years during which you had the opportunity to get rid of the exceptional costs, why is the situation worse now? We have nothing before us to suggest that the picture is about to improve significantly."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 2820,
      "EditedText": "So are you saying that the deficit greatly increased this year because there has been a further shake-out of staff in order to meet the deficit?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
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      "EditedText": "That will depend on the efficiency measures that are put in place by the colleges in response to the work being done by the funding council."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
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      "EditedText": "I appreciate that he has been in post only since 1 July, but will Mr Frizzell be more specific about what has been set in place to deal with that possible saving of £13 million?"
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 2834,
      "EditedText": "From the auditing that has been done—for example, by Her Majesty's inspectors—there is no suggestion that quality has suffered. The Government is committed to widening access and maintaining quality so that we have world-class colleges. The department and the council will take a close interest in that as well as in efficiency savings. At this stage, however, there is no suggestion that there has been a reduction in quality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C2835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
      "ID": 2159,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 2835,
      "EditedText": "What other plans exist for further reviews of college staffing to cut costs?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2837",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
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      "EditedText": "I have little to add to that. The key issue is undoubtedly the engagement of management in driving through change. The boards of colleges are broadly constituted and comprise a wide range of people from the sector, as well as businessmen and others. They ought to be capable of looking to good management practice and working out solutions. They must be encouraged and helped as far as possible to embrace the management practices that are needed to deliver efficiencies."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2841",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 2841,
      "EditedText": "Do you accept that it is desirable for colleges to be clear about what they are expected to achieve and how they are expected to perform?"
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 2845,
      "EditedText": "Early satisfaction."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2849",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 2849,
      "EditedText": "In both cases I have been conscious of the fact that there are Executive officials between the funding council and ministers. One of the key roles of the funding councils is to advise ministers on the funding requirements of the sector, but the funding councils do not—"
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2850",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
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      "EditedText": "I am sorry, convener; when Professor Sizer thinks deeply, he mutters, and I find it difficult to hear him."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
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      "EditedText": "This committee longs for you to shout at it."
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 2854,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to respond, Mr Frizzell?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2859",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 2859,
      "EditedText": "That is what we like: short, sharp answers to short, sharp questions."
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2865",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 2865,
      "EditedText": "You may already have answered my final question, Professor Sizer: would you, subject to the qualifications that you have just expressed, plan to encourage colleges to implement the benchmarking framework?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2868",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 2868,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 3.6, on page 38, suggests that the colleges' costing processes are largely underdeveloped. Almost half the colleges have no costing processes at all. Has that situation changed? Given the importance to decision making of sound management information systems and costing data, what assurances do we have that management in the colleges is sound?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2871",
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      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
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      "EditedText": "The colleges receive cost data that were produced by the Scottish Executive and which we will continue to produce. We provide financial indicators.I do not have teams working full time in the colleges in the way in which you suggest. I have a small group of accountants that is monitoring further and higher education. I can help the colleges to develop a recovery plan but I do not have people sitting with the college managers doing that.If I had a budget specifically to recruit people and send people into institutions, that would be a way of addressing some of the problems. However, I can only make use of the resources that I have, which is nine accountants for the further and higher education sector. That covers not only financial monitoring but auditing and internal audit."
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  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2872",
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 2872,
      "EditedText": "Not being desperately familiar with the detail of your staffing, I wondered whether you would encourage the colleges that are in the most serious difficulty to use mechanisms not just to sort out their short-term problems, but to put themselves on a firmer footing."
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  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2874",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is right: you can only achieve so much in a few months.We have heard both you and Mr Frizzell talk about the competition that existed between the colleges and how it is to be replaced by collaboration. I know that once a competitive culture is in place, it is not easy to encourage collaboration, so when will we start to see the benefits? If we have ingrained problems, how can we arrive at mechanisms to change the culture?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
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      "EditedText": "Mr Frizzell has said that benchmarking is not necessarily the only way in which to tackle the situation. I must admit that I share that view. Performance indicators have been mentioned. How well are the existing performance indicators doing? The figures that I have on post-course success ratios for all programmes show that the maximum number of students who gain employment is 97.7 per cent. If we could all attain that kind of success, no matter in what aspect of education, we would be doing very well. The median is 86 per cent, which is not that bad, but the minimum is 14 per cent, which suggests that someone has a real problem. A number of the other indicators have fairly low minimum values. What do you feel about the performance indicators and how they might be improved to give proper measures of the outcomes within the sector? Do you have any suggestions about where the weaknesses may be or how the area could be developed?"
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      "EditedText": "Those are highly technical and difficult questions. I am not yet sure whether the performance indicators that we have are right, although they are obviously relevant. The one that you mentioned—which shows what students do once they complete their course and the percentage that go into jobs or higher education—is probably as good a measure as we can get of what is being put out of the door at the end of the day. However, there are areas of high unemployment where it is to be expected that even people who get qualifications will have difficulty getting a job. The question that has to be asked is whether that is the college's fault. I can give only a general answer. We must be cautious about the extent to which we judge a college's effectiveness and efficiency on the performance indicators. There must be a balance. The one that was mentioned is not unreasonable—a member of the public would expect us to measure whether a college's output is moving into jobs or into higher education."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
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      "EditedText": "Do you agree that, if only one in seven students who start a course is successful in terms of this measure, that does not substantiate the idea that the course is worth while or useful? That case may be unusual—it may be that the data were not gathered properly—but with a success rate as low as one in seven, all we are doing is postponing the unemployment statistics for a short time."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "We have had a long meeting—nearly two hours. As a former senior lecturer in further education, I have found it fascinating. The results of your deliberations will be crucial to the future of communities and individuals throughout Scotland. The committee wishes you wisdom. I thank Mr Frizzell, Professor Sizer and their team for their contribution. The meeting is now formally closed."
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 28 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor John Sizer (Chief Executive, Scottish Further Education Funding Council): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 2736,
      "EditedText": "May I introduce my colleague Brian Baverstock, who is deputy director of financial appraisal and monitoring. We have a single integrated executive for the further education and higher education funding councils. I am chief executive of both councils."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
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      "EditedText": "As far as I can see, the report is fair and balanced. One might struggle with some points of detail, but I would not want to make anything of those. The report paints a pretty accurate picture of the situation in the further education sector. There is no great disagreement about what it contains."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
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      "EditedText": "I apologise. I am not quite sure how clear the microphone is. I shall start again.The Scottish Further Education Funding Council has analysed the financial forecast that it received from the colleges, and it has provided you with an updated analysis of that data. The report indicates that, although there is some improvement in the health of the financial sector in terms of its income and expenditure accounts, the sector clearly has not got strong balance sheets, nor does it have a healthy liquidity position. We will address those issues as the council becomes fully operational."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
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      "EditedText": "I shall tell committee members what the council has done since 1 July, the date on which it became operationally responsible. We are taking early action on 13 colleges that we consider to have serious financial health problems. They are receiving close financial monitoring. We are working with those colleges to establish recovery plans and are rigorously monitoring the performance against agreed action plans. There is on-going contact between the colleges and members of my financial appraisal and monitoring team. I will become directly involved with accounting officers of colleges and boards of management if I feel that appropriate action is not being taken. We have established a financial monitoring framework, which will assess not only the financial health of the institutions, by analysing their financial statements and accounts, but their financial forecasts. We want to move to a situation where the financial monitoring framework is essentially forward-looking and anticipates problems so that they can be dealt with. The visits from my financial appraisal and monitoring team will include an examination of the adequacy and effectiveness of the financial control arrangements. We are also examining the question of the condition of the estate, and are in the process of commissioning a survey of it. Having gone through the European Union procedures, we have shortlisted consultants. We are seeking the views of the sector on how to develop a strategy for estates and good practice guidance. In that context, I am talking to my counterparts in England and Wales about joining a benchmarking best practice group that they have established for estates management. There is also an internal capital advisory group which links the various aspects of the integrated academic-financial-physical plans. Also linked to that is the key question of the funding methodology. We are developing a new methodology that we hope will provide a sustainable and predictable framework to allow the colleges to plan ahead. We are shifting the funding year to the academic year: funding will be from August 2000, with some interim bridging funding for four months. That will allow the colleges to know in advance what their funding will be so that they can address how they will live with their finances more systematically. As part of that, we are introducing an in-year student unit of measurement count, or SUM count, which is a measure of activity. The present system was inherited when it was in the process of being reviewed and changed by our colleagues in the Scottish Office—now the Scottish Executive. The SUM count will allow us, as I have said, to progress to a more sustainable and predictable framework than that which we have had in the past, which has been based on retrospective rather than current activity.I could go on, but I think that that will give members something to discuss."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
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      "EditedText": "As for my case, I can only say that if you look at my past record on the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council and with the University Grants Committee in establishing the procedures that they developed, which are the foundation of the procedures currently used by all the higher education funding councils, I can assure you, convener, that I think that I have the professional expertise and the team of people to achieve what you have asked about.I have a very high-quality audit committee, chaired by John Gray, the former finance director of Scottish Hydro-Electric. That audit committee is monitoring what we are doing: there is a high level of professional overviewing of the activity that I am undertaking. I think that I can say yes to your question, convener, given my personal experience and that of my team. You will probably have to ask it again in a few months' time.We have certainly put the procedures in place, but at the moment we are dealing with a transitional situation in which a group of colleges are in serious financial difficulty. It is important that I give those a high priority."
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      "EditedText": "You are dealing with 13 colleges. Are there more, or are they the most serious cases? How did you choose them?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
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      "EditedText": "I assumed responsibility for the sector on 1 July. The first thing that I need to do is to analyse the situation and present our findings to ministers for consideration. I can live only within the funding that is given to the council and ensure that we provide best value for money within those circumstances."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
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      "EditedText": "I would add that there is no question that what we saw through the 1990s was a squeezing of the capital funding line. That is a classic response when funds are tight. Funding for this year and the following two years is higher than it was, so there is some restoration of the position. Professor Sizer is, however, quite right. We must establish the needs of the sector, and the extent to which the funding is already there to be squeezed out to greater effect on the buildings front."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Page 7 of the Audit Committee briefing refers to\"a similar range of coherent strategies and practices\" such as\"less expensive staffing solutions . . . lower cost teaching support staff to deliver relevant parts of the education and training provision; less staff intensive curriculum delivery strategies\"and \"more flexible contracts with teaching staff\".If I read that aright, it means pay teachers less, replace lecturers with machines and produce a system that relies on part-time teachers on short-term contracts. Is that not a recipe for overstretched, insecure and tired staff who have no time for research, training or updating their subject skills, as well as for dissatisfied students? How are you going to guarantee quality of education in that situation?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 2768,
      "EditedText": "To some extent the answer has to be speculative, and perhaps Professor Sizer will have a different take on it than I do, since he is closer to it and has the responsibility for the higher education institutions. I recognise a sector that is going through the stress of change. There has been a huge cultural change following coming out of local authority control and a local authority environment. For example, the college principal would not have the same accountabilities in the local authority structure as the college principal is expected to have as manager of the institution as a free-standing corporate body. All of that is something of a shock to the whole sector.There is the stress from student numbers being driven up for various reasons, the financial squeeze and people having to take responsibility for efficiencies. That is not easy, and it is not surprising that we have seen some stresses and strains emerge. That would be true of any organisation in that position.Given the major change, the sector has achieved quite a lot in a short time. I would not underestimate the size of the change faced by colleges as they have moved from local authority control to the position of having to fend for themselves. The department would face the historical cost structure of the colleges and funding would initially be based on the amount that colleges used to receive. However, a developing formula would put pressure on the colleges that were not ready for such a disciplined environment.We are slightly alarmed, because we do not want deficits to continue and to accumulate. However, some good things have been done. That is not entirely surprising with the major cultural change that has taken place in the sector."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2769",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 2769,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult for me to comment on events before 1 July, except to say that we should not underestimate what the sector has achieved. I suspect that, in other areas, there would have been much greater resistance to change. Some managers were appointed to perform a different job in a different set of circumstances. Suddenly, they found that they were running incorporated colleges, inheriting a high-cost situation and being asked to manage significant downsizing. Perhaps some managers did not have the skills that are necessary for that task.Furthermore, it is not easy to tell long-time colleagues that there must be significant retrenchment. Such retrenchment has not just happened at teaching staff level. There has been delayering of management and devolved budgeting has been introduced. Some examples of best practice have also been introduced. Although credit should be given for what has been achieved, there is still, as you rightly point out, an overall financial problem, because savings have not strengthened the colleges' balance sheets to enable the colleges to reinvest in the future. That is the big challenge. This sector is crucial to all the political parties if they want to deliver a vision for Scotland."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2771",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 2771,
      "EditedText": "The report mentions the funding mechanism that, by tying increased funding so much to increase in student numbers, put great pressure on individual colleges to increase such numbers, regardless of other considerations. Is the increase in student numbers a separate issue from the squeeze on funds? Are colleges squaring the circle by trying to increase student numbers while at the same time seeking efficiency savings and savings on staff? Perhaps you can guide me if I am drawing a false distinction."
    },
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    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2775",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
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      "EditedText": "Are you content with that, Mr Reeves, or do you want to add something?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 2777,
      "EditedText": "Does Professor Sizer have anything further to say about how he envisages the application of the new funding methodology?"
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
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      "EditedText": "I realise that. That is why I am asking for your guidance."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 2783,
      "EditedText": "I will allow you to make your judgment. If you feel that it would be a breach of confidentiality to list the names now, we would be happy as long as you make the names available to the committee in writing."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Roberts: ",
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener."
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 2795,
      "EditedText": "I think that I differentiate between, on the one hand, the detailed provision of individual courses and their duplication and, on the other, the overall shape and size of the sector—the number of colleges, the balance of provision, geographical distribution and the requirements of the regions. We have just agreed to put extra funding into Argyll, Benbecula and the Haddington area to address the current lack of provision in those areas. One of the questions about this report is the extent to which these savings can be delivered while the present number of institutions is maintained. Mr Wilson and then Mrs Liddell, when they were ministers before devolution, both directed the sector to move towards greater collaboration. We must move—you may have heard me say this on many occasions—from competition within Scotland to collaboration for Scotland. We are stimulating collaboration but, as we begin to understand the financial health problems of some of the colleges, we may come to the view that they have problems of long-term viability as stand-alone institutions. We may have to address mergers and rationalisation through that route. We have also been asked to look at geographical provision. As you know, the different provision in different parts of the country arises because of historical circumstances. In Glasgow there is a large number of colleges, whereas in Edinburgh there are three. Aberdeen and Dundee each have one very large college. The council will want to look particularly at distribution in the west. My experience in higher education has shown that the best way in which to achieve the benefits of a merger is to get everyone to buy into it. There is enormous resistance to imposed change. We must work with the colleges to understand the issues and to help them reach rational decisions to merge. We will, I hope, be able to help to fund the journey and achieve value for money at the end of the road."
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  {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
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      "EditedText": "I want to clarify one point. In your introductions, you indicated that things have moved on since the period that was covered by this report. The additional funding that has been identified seems to be aimed at growth. Is it realistic, given the financial state that the FE sector seems to be in—I appreciate that a kind of stock-taking exercise is being carried out to explain that—to expect colleges to continue to make efficiency savings?"
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
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      "EditedText": "Not all the new money will be targeted at growth: some of it is predicated on the extra students and the widening access agenda; some of it is to deal with the financial situation; some of it is for infrastructure; and some of it is for capital investment in information and communications technology. It is not all directed at growing student numbers and maintaining the existing financial situation.It is often argued that efficiency gains in the public service sector cannot be achieved continually—it is not as though ball bearings are being produced and there is new technology that makes their production cheaper every year. We must be careful not to assume that, because progress has been made, we have come to the end of the process. The report points out that there are variations in the ways in which colleges go about managing their costs. There are clearly variations in the management information that is available to college management. Not all colleges have well-developed systems of costing, for example. Given that scenario, it would be unwise to conclude that we have come to the end of the line in terms of efficiency savings. Some colleges may have come close, but others will not have done. In the interests of value for money and of the taxpayer, it is right that the funding council and the Government should take the view that there is room for greater efficiency."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
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      "EditedText": "We are predicating only a 1 per cent efficiency gain, which, in the context of previous efficiency gains, is marginal. It does not seem unreasonable to have a philosophy of continuous cost improvement, provided that it is recognised that a college can be inefficiently effective but not efficiently ineffective. We must recognise that this is a matter of effectiveness and quality. If the Scottish Further Education Funding Council was of the view that the efficiency gains that were sought by the sector were impinging on the quality of the provision, we would have to advise ministers accordingly. However, the council's view is that a 1 per cent efficiency gain is not unreasonable in the context of further growth."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 2801,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to cope with the Professor's soundbites. That never happened when I was a student."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "EditedText": "I do not have information about interest payments, either historically or in the financial forecasts that I receive. I will be revising the request for financial forecasts to ensure that that information is identified. I emphasised early on that I thought that the sector was, in effect, overtrading—it has had weak balance sheets and has not been generating surpluses to sustain assets or to fund growth. You are saying in a slightly different way something that I said earlier. It is therefore difficult for me to go much further."
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      "EditedText": "Can you help us, Mr Frizzell?"
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Bell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 2810,
      "EditedText": "Mr Frizzell said earlier that the deficits in some of the earlier years included significant exceptional costs attributed to restructuring. That included staff downsizing, much of which was achieved through early retirement schemes, which required enhancements to former employees' pensions. The college deficits include charges for setting up that future pension provision, which amounts to about £10 million a year for three years. The colleges received funding of about £2 million, which paid the immediate lump-sum cost of the pension enhancement, but they have to make provision for the fact that they have to pay pensions to former employees into the future. That is included in the headline deficit, but it is not an immediate cash drain, as it is being paid out over the remaining lifetimes of the retired employees. When the exceptional costs are taken account of and taken out of the picture, historical cost deficits do not start to arise until 1998-99; I do not think that members have those figures. That means that the sector is not in overdraft to the tune of servicing the deficits of the level that appears in tables 9 and 10."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2812",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
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    "Committee": {
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1906,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 2812,
      "EditedText": "Can we get an answer to that question, Mr Frizzell?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2817",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 2817,
      "EditedText": "The forecasts that we have suggest that the figures should improve in the current year—1999-2000. We are forecasting a reduction in the deficit."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2819",
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    },
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      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 2819,
      "EditedText": "The principal explanation for the change between the original 1998-99 forecast and the latest forecast has to do with nearly £10 million-worth of restructuring expenditure that had not been anticipated when the original forecast was made. Remember that we are going back a little, to when the table was published in the report. About £6 million of the difference is accounted for by a particular restructuring cost incurred in 1998-99. It is not expected to remain at that level in the current year—1999-2000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C2825",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Martin, Paul",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Springburn"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 2825,
      "EditedText": "Mr Frizzell, can I refer you to paragraph 2.13 of the report? It suggests that by improving below average efficiency in individual colleges, some £13 million could be saved. How have you sought to achieve those substantial benefits?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2828",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 2828,
      "EditedText": "There is the management review that Professor Sizer mentioned and there will be mechanisms that the funding council can use to encourage management at colleges to shake out the savings. It is down to the management of an individual college to manage down the unit cost of that college.The £13 million—or another figure—of savings can be achieved only if the colleges that have unit costs above the median can get their unit costs down to the median. That is set out in the report and that is how that £13 million has been calculated."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2829",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 2829,
      "EditedText": "It is important that the committee recognises—I am sure it does—that there is a wide diversity of colleges. The range includes small island and agricultural colleges, specialist colleges such as those in Glasgow which were referred to and very large colleges. Inevitably there is a range and diversity of provision and size.The report acknowledges that if all the colleges could move to the median that would save £13 million, but it recognises equally that that might not be wholly achievable because some of the small, specialist colleges will be more expensive to operate if they are to provide adequate provision in the Orkneys, Shetland or the outer Hebrides, for example.Achievement of those savings will require people who are capable of managing that process. I will give you another soundbite. We must get from data to information: data become information only if people act on them. That is why we feel that that is an important part of the management review.There is already significant sharing of the best practice that has been identified in this very good report. The Association of Scottish Colleges shares that view. There are other groupings within the sector that use one another as benchmarks.Although it is an important piece of the jigsaw, I am not sure that such change can be achieved overnight. As we said, other people have been asking about what the impacts on delivery of teaching and staff morale will be. We must fit all that into the management review and from that identify best practice and how the funding council can help.I must also ensure that boards of management understand their responsibilities in holding their executives to account. Executives must demonstrate to boards that there are good reasons why their colleges are more expensive than others. If a college is more expensive than others, the executive must also say what action it is taking to address that fact. If it believes that it cannot take action, the board must be satisfied that that is the case.The boards are the first line of public accountability—they must ensure that the executive of a college delivers value for money."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2159E115P214C2831",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 2831,
      "EditedText": "Can Mr Frizzell and Professor Sizer tell us how they might overcome the key barriers? Will they focus on the barriers that prevent savings being achieved?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2836",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 2836,
      "EditedText": "We have to be clear where the responsibility lies. We are a funding council, not a planning body or one that has responsibility for the management of individual colleges. Colleges are incorporated and have their own boards of management, and it is important that employee-employer relationships are managed by the colleges. Our role is to ensure that colleges understand what best practice is and demonstrate that they can address the issues involved in delivering it. If a funding council were to determine the optimum level of staffing in different types of colleges, it would require significant extra resources. I also suspect that central planning and central bureaucracies would get things wrong. We must ensure that college managements understand what best practice is and can demonstrate that they are employing it. In that process, they can demonstrate to boards of management and to auditors that they have optimal staffing levels to deliver what they are required to deliver now, and plan for the future. This is a period of rapid change and we must think not just about today's courses, but about the delivery of tomorrow's courses."
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2843",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 2843,
      "EditedText": "In the report, some consideration is given to the necessity for the new division of areas of responsibility—the establishment of the Scottish Executive department and the Scottish Further Education Funding Council. Are you both satisfied with the division of responsibilities?"
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  {
    "ID": "C2844",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 2844,
      "EditedText": "That is a difficult question, as I have had my responsibility for only four and a quarter weeks."
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
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      "EditedText": "The division looks okay to me at this stage. I am sure that we will talk if the division begins to look wrong. I think that the division of responsibility is right: it broadly mirrors the difference between the department and the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council. It is reasonable that the people who are closer to colleges should have day-to-day responsibility for funding."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C2858",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2862",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 2862,
      "EditedText": "That was helpful. A benchmarking framework model has been suggested in paragraph 3.13 on page 41 of the report. Have either of the witnesses any comments about that framework?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 2864,
      "EditedText": "That could well happen."
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 2867,
      "EditedText": "The only thing that I would add is that I would be wary of the assumption that benchmarking is the answer to everything. It is one of a range of tools and I hope that, in the management review, managers will think that other tools are of value."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
      "HeadingID": 46,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 46,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 2869,
      "EditedText": "I have read what the report says on that. The development of costing practice is one of the issues that I will have to address. However, because of the complexity and diversity of activity and because of the short-term nature of some of the activities, costing is not going to be straightforward. On the other hand, an institution cannot be managed effectively if there is no information for planning, decision making and control. At the moment, I have rather more urgent things on my agenda, but we will build on our experience with the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council, which led the way in the development of new costing practices in higher education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
      "HeadingID": 46,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 46,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 2873,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we will do that. The first stage is to get colleges on to a recovery plan, with proper short-term financial monitoring in place. Building on that, we will ensure that they develop those practices.Scott Barrie commented on how much we had achieved, but there is a limit to how much we can achieve. I have had to recruit 40 staff in the past few months and put everything in place. I have a new council that has had to be educated in all these matters, so I am having to prioritise, but I assure you that the questions that you are asking are the ones that are on my mind. As my financial management teams begin to visit institutions routinely, we will be giving advice on all the issues. I am sorry if I sound negative, but I can only do so much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
      "HeadingID": 46,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 46,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Professor Sizer: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 2875,
      "EditedText": "The council had a £1 million fund to encourage collaboration. My chairman and I use the word collaboration whenever we get the opportunity, as does Mr McLeish. The message from the colleges that I have visited is clear—they understand that they are expected to collaborate and to move on from the previous funding regime, which encouraged them to compete and resulted in their rushing lemming-like towards the cliffs.The £1 million fund was significantly over-subscribed in terms of funding bids. We have provided a fixed sum to each college to fund discussions on collaboration with other colleges—the message is there. I do not have sufficient grasp of the content of all the bids, but my suspicion is that we have yet to move to considerations of rationalising across colleges. Certainly, I am not aware of any colleges that are discussing mergers.There is already significant collaboration in the Glasgow area and through the colleges learning education group information system and the sharing of teaching material through the Scottish Qualifications Authority. There is an underlying culture of collaboration, but that does not extend to senior management of colleges sitting down with one another to talk about how they can work together across the sector. You would have to ask the college principals, but my perception is that the pendulum is moving in a positive direction towards a recognition of the importance of collaboration. We will continue to stimulate that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 28 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 15
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-28T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Scottish Further Education Colleges: Managing Costs”",
      "HeadingID": 46,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 46,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Frizzell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 2882,
      "EditedText": "I have said my piece about benchmarking. We should not get too hooked on it and see it as the sole process. The recommendations certainly point in the right direction. If they are taken on board in principle and as far as is reasonably possible, given the funding council's relationship with the colleges, they will certainly help to improve the sector. The key thing, however, is for local management to take the messages on board and to take responsibility for managing efficiently and effectively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9831393+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 22 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25717,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 25717,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andy Kerr): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 665183,
      "EditedText": "Good morning to the committee, the officers and the people in the gallery. I am very pleased to see another good turnout for a meeting of the Transport and the Environment Committee of the Scottish Parliament. As convener of the committee, I welcome you all.Kenny MacAskill has sent his apologies as he will not be able to attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25718,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 665193,
      "EditedText": "We have consulted widely in the preparation of the measure, as I have already described. Besides the public consultation that was sent out to more than 700 names and addresses, we consulted within the department. We talked to our waste management colleagues in the rural affairs department, who contributed to the finished product. I believe that we have addressed the issue that Des McNulty raises.You asked, I think, whether the water authorities should be consulted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone (Scottish Executive Development Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 665185,
      "EditedText": "I read with interest about the committee's consideration of the recommendations. I am sorry that we had not given you explanations of what it was all about in the form that you would have liked. We will do so in future.I tried to keep the paper that I have given you short, but I have backed it up with a lot of annexes, in typical civil service style. I hope that the paper went some way towards answering the questions that you had. I will take the committee through the paper and try to flesh it out a little.Environmental impact assessment has been with us for some time. We have had regulations since 1988 as a result of the 1985 directive, but we had been doing work in the area for a long time before that. From the early 1970s, with the rise of the North sea oil and gas industry and the attendant development on the east coast, there was a need for planning authorities to think carefully about the environmental impact of such developments. Custom and practice built up during the 1970s and the 1980s and the United Kingdom was a major player in Brussels in preparing the original directive. I hope that that little bit of background puts the issue in context.A quotation in the circular that I have included as annexe D sets out what the issue is all about. Paragraph 6 says:\"The directive's main aim is to ensure that the authority giving the primary consent (the ‘competent authority') for a particular project makes its decision in the knowledge of any likely significant effects on the environment.\"The authority that is referred to generally means the planning authority, but I know that the committee is considering the Forestry Commission's work as well. The paragraph continues:\"The directive therefore sets out a procedure that must be followed for certain types of projects before they can be given ‘developmental consent'. \"Our regulations do that, too. You were given them in the form of a 112-page document, but they were published in a far less intimidating form.For practitioners, the new regulations do not cause a huge problem. The changes are significant in what they aim to achieve, but the processes that are involved are much the same as before. The new directive is aimed at improving the things that were criticised in the earlier directive, particularly relating to the scope of what should be included as part of the environmental impact assessment. That information is included in the annexes to the directive at the end of your copies of the regulations.The new directive requires developers' submissions to talk about the alternative schemes that have been considered. The planning authority, when considering an application, cannot suggest that the project be done a little further down the road or any other such change; it has to consider the application as submitted and approve or refuse it as it stands. There are a number of procedural changes, which deal with scope and the way in which planning authorities decide whether schedule 2 projects qualify for environmental impact assessment. The other important purpose of the new directive is to improve the overall quality of the environmental statements that developers produce in support of their projects.I refer now to the means of achieving the objectives. The procedures are spelt out in considerable detail in the regulations. They are very precise as to the way in which the developer must make the application, which must be considered by the planning authority. Copies of the application must be provided for the consulting bodies—the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, Scottish Natural Heritage, the Scottish Executive and the Health and Safety Executive and others who have a particular interest. The details of that procedure are quite bulky and form a large part of the regulations. Duties are placed on the developers, the applicants, the planning authorities, the Scottish ministers and the consultation bodies.The other new element of the directive is the use of thresholds. The scheme is straightforward for a schedule 1 project—there is no debate; it simply requires an environmental statement and environmental assessment. For schedule 2, it is a little bit more difficult, and whether an environmental impact assessment is necessary is much more likely to depend on the sensitivity of the location of the planned project and the scale of the operation. The point of the thresholds was to make it easier for the planning authorities. The thresholds that are listed in column 2 of schedule 2, which we call exclusive thresholds, are de minimis. If a project fits the description but falls below the exclusive threshold, no environmental statement is required. That leaves us with a grey area of schedule 2 projects that are above the exclusive threshold, but are not of a scale as to fall under schedule 1. In annexe A of the circular—not in the regulations—we have tried to offer some help in the form of indicative thresholds. Without stipulating that anything of that scale will necessarily require an environmental statement, we give clear indications. We say that projects above a certain size are more likely to need environmental assessment, for example. We hope that that proves helpful to planning authorities and applicants alike.There was a question about the nature and scale of the consultation that we undertook in moving from the directive to the regulations. The Scottish Executive development department has a fairly standard list of consultation names and addresses, which extends to more than 700 individuals and organisations. The list includes local authorities, councils, planning consultants, developers, the public consultation bodies to which I referred, and pressure and environmental groups, such as Friends of the Earth and Greenpeace.We regularly add names to that list, as people phone up to tell us that they would like to be consulted on an issue that we are examining. The names always go on the list, even if only for that exercise. Very often people ask that their names stay on our list so that they can be consulted in future.I am pleased to say that we seldom receive anything like 700 responses—it would be daunting to deal with that.We consulted three times. The first consultation acted by way of an explanation to people working with the existing regulations, so that they could familiarise themselves with the changes, get used to the idea, and comment on how we might proceed. However, there is a limit to the extent to which we can take on board all comments. It is not open to us to act on a comment such as, \"I do not think such-and-such an operation should be included within schedule 1.\" The European Commission has issued the directive and we are required to transpose it into domestic law. There is not a huge amount of latitude in the implementation of the directives.The first consultation also opened up the question of thresholds. The directive had given us options on that: we could leave consideration on a case-by-case basis for all projects, or introduce thresholds, or mix and match. The overwhelming response was that we should do as we have done, which is to mix and match.Our second consultation paper dealt exclusively with levels at which thresholds should be set. Again, responses were predictable. Developers might have liked higher thresholds, whereas those who wanted greater control might have liked them to be lower. Some changes have been made to the levels that were suggested at the consultation paper stage, but by and large we have ended up with what we proposed. Finally, we consulted on a set of draft regulations, which brought similar comments. There were not many constructive comments on how they might read or be interpreted more easily. It was more a case of people saying, for example, that certain things should not be included, or that consultation was not necessary—matters on which we had little latitude. As you know, the regulations are now in place.Another request was for a synopsis of what the regulations do. I do not want to read them out to you, but I commend as a good read annexe F to my paper, which is a lift from the explanatory notes at the back of the regulations. It straightforwardly talks through the functions of each regulation. It is difficult to read each regulation, because they tend to refer the reader elsewhere in the regulations or even to other pieces of legislation. Unless you want me to, I will not take you through annexe F.We will have to wait and see what the effects of the directive will be. Clearly, more schemes will be subject to environmental assessment. I have given you annexes showing the projects that were already in and the new ones. Clearly, anything that has come in for consideration for the first time will be caught by the regulations.Local authorities do not have to deal with environmental assessments every day. Since the 1988 regulations came into force, fewer than 400 environmental assessments have been carried out on projects in Scotland—between 30 and 35 per annum is the norm. They tend to be concentrated in particular areas, such as the central belt and up the east coast. A good number of authorities will have had few if any environmental assessments to deal with, and that is why we issue clear guidance to talk them through how they should be handled in parallel with the regulations.That is all I have to say at the moment, but I shall try to answer any questions that members have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 665186,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, John. We appreciate your contribution, particularly as regards the way in which such matters could be handled in future. It would be useful for the committee to have brief synopses of Scottish statutory instruments as they come before us. The fact that you have been deeply involved in consultation is to be welcomed.One question that I would like to raise concerns paragraph 3, where you used the word compromises when referring to issues relating to drafts at European level that were addressed at a later stage in the amended directive. How confident are you that the compromises and resolutions to those issues have been dealt with in the best way, so that the legislation fits and the global environment is protected?I should be interested to hear about that, but I should also ask my colleagues to put some questions to you, and you can respond to all our queries in due course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 665187,
      "EditedText": "My first question concerns paragraph A36 on page 45 of annexe D, about installations for the disposal of non-hazardous waste. Given the issues that were raised in the earlier briefing session about the mountain that we have to climb to meet the European waste management directives, I wonder whether that paragraph is strong enough. It mentions installations, but I would be keen for waste management strategies not just to indicate which installations waste over a certain size would go to, but to specify partnership arrangements.My other question concerns the obligation to institute an environmental impact assessment, which comes either from the applicant or from a regulatory framework. I am thinking particularly of the water boards. Water and sewerage authorities have responsibility for dealing with spillages or other emergency problems caused by accidents at other kinds of installations. However, if I understand the regulations correctly, those bodies have no locus in being able to institute environmental impact assessments. That power lies either with the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, as the regulatory agency, or with the applicant. Are the water authorities able to express a view about how a development might impact on the provision of their services, either on an on-going basis or, more worryingly, in an emergency? Could that be part of an environmental impact assessment regime?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 665190,
      "EditedText": "No other members have indicated that they have questions, so I ask John to address the ones that have been asked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 665191,
      "EditedText": "I will do my best.I was asked first about the comment in paragraph 3: \"A number of compromises were made between individual Member States\".I must say that 1985 was a long time ago, and that I was not involved in planning issues at that time—I was certainly not at the table in Brussels doing the deals and making compromises. Indeed, the Scottish Office would not have been at the table—the member state for European directives is the United Kingdom, so the then Department of the Environment would have been the lead department. We would have had a say in determining the UK line—I would not want to suggest that we were not involved in the discussions, even if we were not at the table in Brussels. What I said about compromises being made is, therefore, to some extent received wisdom. All directives involve a degree of compromise—to get a paper that is acceptable to everyone, certain things must be left out, which means that the end result might be the lowest common denominator rather than the ideal.Some of the criticisms that were levelled at the directive at the start have now been addressed. Over the years, pressure has built up for the scope of annexes I and II to be increased, so that the directive now applies to a slightly wider range of projects. On the procedural side, greater attention has been paid to matters such as scoping. Now, the director of a project can ask the planning authority what he should address in his environmental statement, instead of spending considerable time and money on having a statement produced, only to find that he has addressed some matters that did not require consideration and omitted to include others that he should have dealt with. I imagine that it was in the areas where changes have since been made that compromises had to be reached at the outset.I am not sure whether Des McNulty wanted his question about non-hazardous waste answered, as he seemed to half-answer it himself. We are moving towards adopting waste strategies. I do not know whether that will deal with the flaw in the regulations that he perceives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 665194,
      "EditedText": "I was wondering about the right of third parties to institute environmental impact assessments. As I understand it, at the moment there is the regulator—the planning authority in most instances—and the applicant. How can a third party, which may feel that a project will impact on its activity, get into the loop?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 665195,
      "EditedText": "As you say, the directive contains no specific provision for third parties. However, a third party could, if it got wind of a particular project, seek to influence the planning authority, which can of course stipulate a requirement for an environmental assessment. The third party could also go to an MSP or directly to the minister, because Scottish ministers can also call for an environmental assessment, if they think it necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 665196,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned that there has been a considerable change since the abolition of the regional authorities, which would have dealt with most of these issues and which were responsible for the provision of infrastructure, including water and sewerage. Because of the disaggregation of those authorities, groups that are outwith the planning loop are left with relatively little direct influence. They can have input, but only in the context in which an individual can have input."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 665198,
      "EditedText": "That would be dealing with the problem after it had happened. There should be a way in which water authorities can be notified of major environmental schemes, so that they have the opportunity to get involved in the environment assessment process. Under certain circumstances, it might be appropriate for them to have the right to initiate such an assessment. A number of incidents, north and south of the border, of spillage or other forms of pollution because of the activities of third parties, have resulted in some disruption or pollution of the water supply. That could happen to the sewerage system as well, with significant consequences. I wonder whether the reliance on the regulators is allowing key providers, such as the water authorities, adequate access."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 665199,
      "EditedText": "The requirement to publicise is important. All schemes that are subject to an environmental assessment would be advertised. A water authority—assuming that it has the same access to public notices as anybody else—could learn of any such schemes and either make representations to the planning authority or go directly to SEPA to ensure that its point of view is put over."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 665206,
      "EditedText": "Sometimes planning enforcement is difficult to push through a court or impose in practice. One would hope that, where there is a major environmental impact, courts would take the case more seriously than they do lesser infractions. I understand the point that you are making on that. What about the defence of Crown immunity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 665209,
      "EditedText": "We hope not, but only time will tell whether they do. Planning authorities may be in a better position to tell you whether what we have put in place is helpful. We think that it is, as did those who responded to our consultation. An alternative would have been not to include the thresholds in schedule 2, but to leave it that all schedule 2 projects would be considered case by case.At the smaller end of the scale, planning authorities would still have been scratching their heads as to whether they could justify not requiring an environmental statement or whether they should be safe and ask for a statement to ensure that they have caught any potential environmental effect. That might lead to the clogging-up of a system that has already been criticised for being too slow and cumbersome. We hope that we have gone some way towards preventing the system from becoming clogged up with a lot of small schemes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 665212,
      "EditedText": "That broad indication is quite helpful enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 665213,
      "EditedText": "Tavish Scott has bid for a question. I will be lenient and accept it, but I remind the committee that we have limited time this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 665214,
      "EditedText": "I share Robin Harper's concern that we might set up a system that planning authorities will judge and then decide that there is a different way in which to do things. There could be problems there and I will be interested to see how the practicalities work out. Can you describe the relationship of the regulations to the role of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency? I have not worked that out from your answers to earlier questions. For example, paragraph A5 of the Scottish Executive development department circular, which deals with intensive fish farming, suggests that salmon farms over the threshold would all have to provide an environmental impact assessment. However, those farms are already providing a lot of information to SEPA to secure discharge consent. In practical terms, how will the EIA be more than just another piece of work that the farmers must do to comply with the planning process at the same time as securing their discharge consent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment Forestry (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 25719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ID": 25719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 665223,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the bigger picture. What practical impact will the directive have on the landscape in terms of deforestation? I assume that there is a strategy for appearance and for after-use and that there is a goal at the end of the process, but that was not clear from the paper, although the technical stuff was. On a related matter, the second page of your note comments on exceptional cases in which the forestry commissioners would require a determination for projects that would usually be below the threshold. Again, could you flesh out the sort of thing that would lead you to use that process where it would not usually be required?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 665256,
      "EditedText": "I said that the principle has been raised, not of the actual event but of what can and may happen, and therefore that will be examined in the code of practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment Forestry (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 25719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ID": 25719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 665226,
      "EditedText": "Will you confirm that it works both ways, so that, even if there had been no need for an assessment five years ago, applicants would have to reapply?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment Forestry (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 25719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ID": 25719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Herbert: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 665227,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Sorry, I should have made that point clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 665251,
      "EditedText": "I thought that you would."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 665230,
      "EditedText": "I will talk about the existing planning procedures and guidance on the consideration of telecommunications development. We have to look at telecommunications against the backdrop of the Government's overall desire that the telecommunications network should be established and available to as large a part of the population as possible.The Telecommunications Act 1984 set up the current regime for the development of the network. Organisations that we refer to as code systems operators, such as Cellnet and British Telecom, have certain rights and obligations under the act, particularly in terms of access to land. They have strong powers to get access to public and private land and, if they cannot get the access that they need, they can go to the courts, which will determine what recompense should be made to the landowner. None of that has anything to do with planning.Within the planning system, the developers have a range of permitted development rights, the most well known of which is that telecommunications masts less than 15 metres high do not require planning applications to be made. There are about two pages of detailed information on that in the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (Scotland) Order 1992, but I will not go into that in such detail, unless the committee wants me to.In return for the granting of those rights, some conditions have been placed on the developers. The conditions are spelled out in the licences that are granted by the Department of Trade and Industry, I think—the Scottish Executive does not issue the licences. They are required to notify planning authorities, or, in certain circumstances, Scottish Natural Heritage, of their proposals. They have to take account of the visual amenity of their work. They are required to make provision for mast sharing and to aim for a minimum number of masts. How well that works is a matter of debate. I do not know if all developers tell the local authority about everything that they propose to do. That, in essence, is the current arrangement. I could go on at some length about the details but I think that you are more interested in the principles.Our guidance is a 1985 circular, 25/1985, that was issued after the Telecommunications Act 1984. There have been amendments to what is and what is not permitted, but the circular remains our substantive guidance. South of the border, the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions has a code of practice that was prepared in consultation with local authorities and the industry. I suspect that many people who operate in Scotland will refer to that code, although it has no force in Scotland. We do not have a parallel code at the moment.You asked what the problems are about the current procedure. I think that the committee knows what they are as well as I do: several of you have written to the minister with matters that your constituents have raised. Many members of the public write to us directly as well.There is a great deal of public concern about masts popping up all over the place. There is concern about whether operators are going through the notification arrangements that are required of them under their licences. Perhaps local authorities will have something to say about that.There is concern about whether planning authorities respond as well as they should to proposals from developers. Many people write to the department to say that they have been in touch with the planning authority and have been told that the situation is nothing to do with the planning authority and that they have no control of it. As I have said, developers are required to notify planning authorities and the planning authorities can make comments and observations. The developers are meant to take the concerns of the planning authority on board before going ahead with their proposals.There is concern that the planning authorities in Scotland have less control than those in England and Wales, and, lastly, there is concern about the possible health effects of electromagnetic fields that emanate from telecommunications base stations and masts. People are concerned that those masts might be sited too close to schools, hospitals and residential areas.That covers most, if not all, of the concerns. There might be others, but that is the situation in a nutshell.We consulted recently because of those concerns, and with a view to consideration of whether we should change the current regime. I should remind the committee that the Department of Trade and Industry takes a great interest in anything we do, and while we are not beholden to that department regarding planning in Scotland, we will keep them informed of any proposals.There were more than 700 consultees. We first consulted last May on four substantive issues. We asked whether we should stay with the status quo regarding masts and whether the 15 m limit was inappropriate and should be changed to 10 m or to some other height. We consulted on whether we should introduce a prior approval mechanism similar to that which is in place in England and Wales.There were no votes in favour of the status quo. A few votes favoured reducing the threshold, but the counter-argument to that was that reduction of the height of the masts from 15 m to 10 m would only result in more masts, so that approach might not solve the problem at all. One might see less of them from one's garden, but there would be more of them around. The vast majority of responses favoured the introduction of prior approval. A substantial handful said that we should not bother with prior approval but that full planning control should be required.We also consulted about clarifying whether extensions to existing masts, which made the structures higher than 15 m, constituted permitted development. I understand that a number of developers tried that one on. The suggestion was that we should make it clear that that is not on. There was only one vote in favour of that option and that was from a developer. The response indicated that we should make it crystal clear that a developer could not build a mast up to a height of 14.9 m one day and then come along to stick on another 6 m or 10 m the next day.Regarding equipment housing, there are currently specific building sizes stipulated. Buildings can be up to 4 m high and up to 200 cu m in volume and still qualify for permitted development rights. We discussed whether to maintain that, to reduce it, or to introduce prior approval. The general feeling was that we should reduce the size and introduce a prior approval mechanism.We raised the question of whether we should have a code of practice in Scotland for planning authorities, the industry and others with an interest in the process. The overwhelming view was that we should have a code of practice, planning advice note, or whatever we want to badge it as, and that we should have a number of volunteers, particularly from the industry, involved in helping to draw up that code.We consulted again later, partly in response to that view, and partly in response to further moves by the Department of Transport, the Environment and the Regions in England. We consulted on introducing not a straightforward prior approval scheme but a two-stage scheme, whereby someone could come with an application and be told quickly whether he requires prior approval. If he had chosen a non-sensitive location and if the application was suitably sympathetic to the environment, he might be given the nod to proceed by the planning authority. Alternatively, he might be told that the application would raise public concern and was in a sensitive area and so on, and that he would need to submit full details of it and await the seeking of comments from the public before we gave him the nod or a refusal.There was support for that, or for anything that would increase the level of control, but there was considerable disquiet about the complexity of the system. It is bureaucratic and potentially difficult to understand, in which case there is potential for abuse or misuse of the process.There was a varied view on how long was required to make the initial determination of whether prior approval was necessary, and about how long it would take to come to a decision about the more difficult cases. We consulted about increasing the level of control in sites of special scientific interest to that which exists under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 in national scenic areas and conservation areas. A considerable majority was in favour of extending the control, as suggested.Finally, we asked whether we should be giving clearer guidance to planning authorities and developers about the use or possible use of agreements—formal or legally binding agreements—about mast sharing. The vote was split on this one between the councils, which thought that it was generally a good idea, and the industry, which thought of lots of good technical reasons why it is not always possible or a terribly good idea to share masts. That was a fairly predictable response.Our response to those views was declared to this committee by the Minister for Transport and the Environment a fortnight ago, when she came to answer questions on this and other matters. I believe that she listed seven points on which she had given clearance for the development department to take forward. The first is a 42-day prior approval scheme for ground-based masts, which would allow a 42-day period during which the proposal could be advertised in the local press, at the developer's expense, I hasten to add. Residents in the area could make their opinion known to the planning authority before it came to a view about the development.The second is a 28-day prior approval procedure for other installations: the ones on buildings and so on. Thirdly, there is clarification on the point to which I referred earlier about the height of 14.9 m being extended by 6 m. Fourthly, there will be a fairly tight reduction in the size and height of equipment housing, from 200 cu m to 90 cu m, and a height reduction from 4 m to 3 m. Fifthly, we will extend the restriction on permitted development rights for telecommunications operations in national scenic areas and conservation areas to sites of special scientific interest. Sixthly, we will work up a Scottish code of best practice or planning advice note for the benefit of planning authorities and the industry. Lastly, we will produce advice on the use of planning agreements to encourage mast sharing.Those matters are now in hand. The instructions have gone to solicitors and they are working on the amendments to the secondary legislation that are required to bring into effect the measures that I have outlined."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 665234,
      "EditedText": "I want to reinforce what Helen has said. The Scottish Parliament information centre research note that we have been given states that Professor Sir Richard Doll has reviewed the scientific evidence on exposure to electromagnetic fields and the risk of cancer and concluded that\"there is no firm evidence that electromagnetic fields cause cancer but that there is a need for further good quality research to be carried out.\"In other words, there is no evidence that they do not cause cancer either. That is what the report says.My question relates to how, during the 42-day prior approval period, it will be advertised that masts are to be put up. I am concerned that, under current planning regulations, it seems to be sufficient to put an advert in the local paper, pin a few notices to lampposts and hope that people pick up on what is about to happen. Has any thought been given to asking developers to send letters to people who live within, say, half a mile of planned masts?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 665253,
      "EditedText": "I cannot comment because of commercial sensitivity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 665255,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry: I did not hear you."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 665236,
      "EditedText": "I will start with the question about the precautionary principle. However, I would preface what I am about to say by reminding the committee that I am not a representative of the health department and I would not want to comment on the quality of its research or the validity of the opinions that it has put forward. The Scottish Executive takes advice from the National Radiological Protection Board on such matters.I understand that a few planning authorities are endeavouring to, or indeed succeeding at, implementing a precautionary principle, so that further masts on schools, for example, are being refused. Those are the most emotive cases and councils see that as the most straightforward way of responding to public pressure. I do not know whether that will be tested in court. A developer would have to press the point and perhaps bring the issue to a head.My understanding is that the requirements in the Maastricht treaty on the precautionary principle relate to keeping things in proportion. It is all very well to take precautionary action, but it must be proportional to the risk. One of our consultation papers includes a discussion about whether a cordon sanitaire should be established around installations such as telecommunications base stations—200 m was suggested as an appropriate distance. If the NRPB tell us that, as long as the public does not go inside the fence which demarcates the area, there is no evidence of a causal link between that level of radiation and any ill effects, it would be difficult for the Executive and local authorities to say that a 200 m cordon sanitaire is proportional to the risk. The difficulty with much of the research, as Mr Harper pointed out, is that the conclusion often seems to be that there is no evidence, but with an immediate caveat that further research is needed. The problem is that the public wants the researchers to prove the negative and I am not sure that that will ever be possible. There must be a hypothesis of the problem before the research can be directed appropriately. I am straying out of my territory and have reached thin ice, so I will end my comments on the precautionary principle there.Mr Harper asked about the form of advertising. The details about whether a precise form needs to be specified or whether it can be left to the planning authorities will need to be thrashed out. At present, there is provision within a concept called neighbour notification. As the phrase suggests, neighbours of a proposed development are given specific notification of what is intended. I take Robin Harper's point about requiring letters to be put through letterboxes, and about whether a radius of half a mile for that is appropriate or whether the radius should be bigger or smaller. The potential difficulty is how we know that it has been done. We already have that difficulty with neighbour notification; applicants are required to certify on their planning application forms that they have conducted the necessary neighbour notification round, but we suspect that it is not always done. We are considering tightening things up.The idea of putting letters through letterboxes, or putting more notices on lampposts, is worth exploring. I do not know whether we would want to regulate for that and have the problem of establishing that it has been done and deciding on sanctions for cases in which it has not. It might be better to include it in the code of practice, so that developers could be exhorted to do it. Developers are always keen to tell us how open and public-spirited they wish to be, so the idea might not fall on deaf ears.Finally, on what could be dubbed a deemed approval, which would be given if a planning authority failed to respond negatively to a development proposal under the prior approval scheme, I would have to go back to the consultation responses to spot whether that point was picked up—I do not recall it. My response at the moment is that we would have to rely on the planning authorities to ensure that they responded within the due time."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 665238,
      "EditedText": "I take your point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 665240,
      "EditedText": "How does enforcement of a code of best practice fit into the legislation?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C665241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 665241,
      "EditedText": "A code of best practice would be just that—or a planning advice note. It would not have regulatory force."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 665243,
      "EditedText": "I welcome this discussion. I hope that it will not be the last one, as a number of issues have been highlighted that need to be considered. I want to pick up briefly on a number of points that have been raised.On health, and following on from what Helen said about the Maastricht precautionary principle, I understand that the Government has asked for an expert working group to be set up with NRPB. When will that group report?My second question is on what would constitute the replacement of an existing mast. I want to clarify that the proposed guidelines will be tight enough. An example is where a developer offers to build a new mast for the police on a site on which there has been a police communications mast for many years, but shifts the position of the mast on the same piece of ground so that it is only a few metres away from someone's house. Does that count as the replacement of a mast on the same site? It seems to me that it should not, but it is not covered by the present regulations, and residents have no comeback.I am also concerned that it is difficult to get information in advance about telephone operators proposals, as they claim that the information is commercially sensitive. I suspect that competition between phone operators will make it difficult for them to reach agreements.I do not expect you to have all the answers, but perhaps you will pick up on some points."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 665245,
      "EditedText": "When will the group report?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 665259,
      "EditedText": "After today's two presentations, the committee will discuss how it will deal with the health issue. The Parliament has a health committee with which we may want to conduct a joint investigation. We can consider health matters in this committee, but we cannot do much with the information. Let us leave the health issue until the end of the two presentations, then we can deal with it in our discussions of how we are going to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 665261,
      "EditedText": "Is the implication that it will be left to individual planning authorities to decide on what basis the appropriate procedures might operate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 665266,
      "EditedText": "I do not know, but I think not. Can I come back to the committee on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 665267,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 665271,
      "EditedText": "As I said earlier, the responses were generally along the lines that the planning authorities felt that the procedures were terribly tight. I have some sympathy for them as the planning system is under considerable pressure at the moment. If we load another chunk of case work on the planning authorities, presumably the strain will show somewhere in the system. The developers, who obviously want decisions as quickly as possible, put the counter argument. I suppose that there may be less sympathy for them, on the ground that they could make their proposals a little earlier, perhaps, and the effect would be the same—they would get the decision when they needed it. It is a matter of which perspective one looks at the issue from. I think I am right in saying that, technically speaking, one could always deal with a particular application within 14, 28 or 42 days, or whatever. However, there are many other things sitting on planning officials' desks at the same time and the general flow of case work has to be kept moving. The implementation of a full planning procedure would be an addition to that burden."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 665273,
      "EditedText": "It would be a clear and simple way forward if these developments were to be brought within full planning control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Dinsdale (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 665279,
      "EditedText": "On my right, I have Bill Hepburn, who is the principal planner in development and control from Highland; and on my left is Dr Andrew Mackie, who is head of analytical and scientific services from Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 665283,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. Dr Mackie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 665288,
      "EditedText": "I support your suggestions, which I think are first class. I wonder whether the committee clerks could find out more about the work of the European experts. If necessary, we could ask a representative from that expert body to give evidence to the committee. I do not think that the NRPB is the only organisation in the system and, indeed, the briefing note indicates others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 665292,
      "EditedText": "There is some difficulty in establishing the role and remit of this committee and whether the scope of our inquiries should be confined to planning regulations and local authority involvement and processes. If we want to branch out into health issues, we should take advice on that. Within the parameters and remit of the committee, we can quite happily investigate the roles of planning authorities, advice notes from the Scottish Executive, international advice and so on, but we cannot get heavily involved in health issues. Where do members think that we should expend our energies: simply on the processes, regulations and advisory aspects outlined by COSLA and by the Scottish Executive, or on joint investigations with other committees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 665293,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned about the planning regulations. COSLA has illustrated a need for full planning control to be considered. On the other hand, the Executive is clearly moving in a different direction. If we are to address this issue, we must do so quickly because money is being spent on solicitors.You should discuss the point about health with your colleagues in the conveners group, Andy, but there is no reason why you could not set up a smaller group made up of a small number of members from each committee to do work on that aspect. I think that we should pursue the other issues that have been raised this morning as they are within our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 665294,
      "EditedText": "I would be inclined to stay within the remit but it is perfectly legitimate for us to consider the health aspects of the matter, as long as we clear it with the Health and Community Care Committee. What is its work load? That committee might want to consider the issue in conjunction with us, if only for the benefit of witnesses who we will want to bring before us. If that committee does not have the issue in its programme—we should all be alert to the burdens on committees' programmes—we should feel entitled to examine aspects of health.I agree with Tavish, though, that our priority should be matters that are within our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 665295,
      "EditedText": "Consensus is about to break out, I think.I support what has been said already. In order to take action in the short term, we should investigate the issues that relate to planning control. We have heard that a Government report will deal with the health implications of the issue and we should take that into account. We might want to pose some questions that could be asked during that investigation. However, that does not stop us doing something in this committee as long as we notify the Health and Community Care Committee. In the short term, though, our focus should be on what we can achieve in terms of planning regulations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 665297,
      "EditedText": "That makes my job easier. We have a broad consensus that that is how we will proceed. We will build our decision into our work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
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      "ID": 25721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 665301,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate your point and also that you made a request for that earlier. If I recollect correctly, Iain Gray took the GM issue into the health arena in the summation of the public health debate. He said that GM was, in the first instance, a question of health. However, we have not forgotten the issues that are not in the work programme. We will revisit them and discuss the way in which to slot them in. We will review our work programme on a regular basis to update and develop it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 665302,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what you are saying and I take Robin's point. We should consider GM when time allows, but we have two other issues on the list.Do documents such as the annual reports of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency and Scottish Natural Heritage come to the committee? What are the procedures for reports that are laid before Parliament? Will a meeting with the chief executive and the chairman of those quangos be built into our programme, when those reports are presented to Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 665306,
      "EditedText": "We have enough work to be going on with and I am pleased to see that we will be taking the issue of telecommunications further, as well as the other issues that we have prioritised. I remind the committee that we agreed a few priority areas, including a closer examination of rural transport, and the bus industry in particular. I do not want to lose those matters at the beginning of next year. I do not want to come back to a totally new set of priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 665308,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Cathy's point. There is an issue about the way in which we handle the agenda. We spent quite a long time on two SSIs today, but there is a huge programme of other SSI matters on the horizon. Perhaps we should take them in a defined and relatively short period at the end of meetings, rather than at the start. In other words, the key priorities that we have defined should be at the top of our agenda. The mechanics of handling SSIs should be dealt with in a later part of the agenda. I suggest that we have a routine mechanism at the start of the meeting so that if someone particularly wants to raise a matter in relation to an SSI we could increase the allocated time, but otherwise we should try to deal with SSIs in 15 minutes at the end of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 665311,
      "EditedText": "Are you volunteering, Murray?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 665312,
      "EditedText": "Not really, but somebody has to do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 665318,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, our time scales for receiving information on these matters are very tight and we have expressed views about that. We could also try to second-guess what issues will come our way to ensure that we have a sufficient briefing beforehand. The point is legitimate and we will try to find sufficient time to deal with these matters.Robin, can I suggest that we do not revisit certain topics, unless the officers can work out a mechanism of doing that? We need to deal with these issues, and once they are gone, they are gone.Can I formally agree the work programme? It is agreed.I forgot about invitations from certain bodies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ID": 25722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 665320,
      "EditedText": "Does it go to Inverness for the conference?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 665184,
      "EditedText": "Our first item of business is consideration of SSI 1999/1. As committee members will be aware, it was laid on 9 July 1999 and is subject to annulment until 9 October 1999. I further advise the committee that the European Committee and the Subordinate Legislation Committee have considered the instrument and have nothing to report. At our previous meeting, members will recall, we requested further briefing from the Executive, which presented us with briefing paper TE/99/3/1. John Gunstone joins us today to brief the committee on the instrument. He will take 10 to 15 minutes to do that, after which the committee will have time to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 665188,
      "EditedText": "I found the section of the report on permitted developments rather dense and difficult to grasp in its entirety. It seems to deal with processes and activities rather than with locations. Obviously, there are specific facilities, such as airfields or harbours, where people enjoy permitted development rights. How are developments that might have an environmental impact assessed in those circumstances?On a related point, how satisfactory are the procedures—which are semi-voluntary and not mandatory under the directive—for development on Crown land and on defence installations? In practice, do the environmental statements that those agents lodge give the planning authority enough control over development?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 665189,
      "EditedText": "As far as I can see, the only matter that we have the power to decide is whether in schedule 2 we opt to proceed on a case-by-case basis, to introduce thresholds or to combine the two. I would like to know more about the argument in support of a mix-and-match approach. How would that work in practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 665202,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that you said that the regulations were dense, because I was worried that I was."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 665204,
      "EditedText": "Does he have an obligation to go through this scoping process and determine from the planning authority whether his activity, which he might think is a permitted development right, requires planning permission because of the environmental impact assessment burden on him?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 665205,
      "EditedText": "One would hope that he would have the good sense to do so. The sanction is that, if he proceeds with the development without having gone through the necessary steps, the planning authority could take enforcement action. There is a panoply of enforcement provisions in the planning legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 665207,
      "EditedText": "For the time being, in legislative terms, Crown development is exempt from planning control. However, there is a circular, which in effect sets out a quasi-planning system for Government departments and Crown representatives. Most, if not all, developments are put through a scheme that is parallel to the planning process. When a Government department is constructing a building, it would probably fill in a planning application form, even though there is no statutory requirement for it to do so. The UK is under an obligation to remove Crown exemption from planning control at a suitable opportunity; when we have a planning bill, one of the items in it will be the removal of Crown exemption. We were taken to task by the European Commission as long ago as 1992, because a scheme that would normally fall within the scope of the environmental assessment legislation could be missed if the Crown were promoting the development. The minister at the then Department of the Environment gave an undertaking that, when a suitable legislative vehicle came along, we would remedy the situation—the need for parallel provision will drop at that stage.I hope that I understand Robin's question on mix and match and thresholds. You suggest that they might lead to confusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 665208,
      "EditedText": "Yes, will they?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 665211,
      "EditedText": "The statute requires planning applications to be dealt with within two months. Where an environmental statement is involved, that is stretched to four months. A good number of those applications probably do not meet the four-month deadline. We have statistics on that, although I do not have the numbers at my fingertips. If you would like to know what they are, I could write to the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 665217,
      "EditedText": "I hope that the two processes will have a lot of paperwork in common. Much of the information that SEPA requires to determine the discharge consent would be the sort of information that the planning authority would wish to see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 665219,
      "EditedText": "I take it that we have nothing to report to the Parliament regarding this SSI."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment Forestry (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 25719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ID": 25719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Herbert (Forestry Commission): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 665221,
      "EditedText": "As John said much of what I was planning to say in his presentation, perhaps I should go through the briefing notes and draw out one or two additional points.The Forestry Commission has had EIA regulations that have operated since 1988—which is similar to the planning situation—and I have gained considerable experience in dealing with them. Unlike planning, we have no schedule 1 projects; all our projects are schedule 2 projects. With the introduction of the new regulations, we have four different types of project, three of which—afforestation, forestry roads and forestry quarries—have been dealt with in the past. Our new project, which was introduced by the amending directive, is deforestation.We deal with some 20 to 25 EIAs a year in Scotland, the vast majority of which are afforestation proposals. There was a forestry road case in England, but I am not sure whether there has been such a case in Scotland.The policy objectives behind the regulations are identical to those behind the town and country planning EIA regulations and there is not much that I can usefully add on those. As I said, we have introduced deforestation as an additional project and have set thresholds for determinations of projects. As with the town and country planning regulations, we have defined sensitive areas where lower or no thresholds will apply. We have a mix-and-match system through which we determine every case above the thresholds, but not those below. Exceptionally, the Forestry Commissioners or Scottish ministers might decide that a project below the threshold will need formal consent and be subject to the EIA process.Our regulations include a scoping provision, which allows an applicant formally to ask the Forestry Commission for an opinion on the information that will be given in an environmental statement. Information about determinations, environmental statements and scoping opinions will be published in a public register, which will be held initially at Forestry Commission offices. We also plan to put the register on the internet. In that respect, the register will be similar to our current public register of felling applications and grant applications for afforestation and, as such, we are building on the back of an existing mechanism.Our consultation on the regulation was similar to the exercise that has been described. The Scottish Executive and the Forestry Commission were partners in the two general consultations undertaken by Government on the proposals for implementing the amending directive. We then had a specific consultation on proposals for the forestry regulations.From the list of people and organisations that responded to the initial consultations, we picked up those that had expressed an interest in forestry matters and used that as our focus for the final consultation on our specific proposals. Some 75 individuals and organisations had expressed an interest and, as I have mentioned, we had some 30 responses to the specific consultation.I have set out a synopsis of the regulations, but I do not propose to go through it in detail. As to the likely effects of the regulations, we estimate that, because we are adding only one new type of project to the 1998 regulations, the increase in the number of EIAs will be very small, perhaps as small as one per annum in Scotland in relation to deforestation. The overall impact will be small in terms of EIAs, but there are benefits from adopting thresholds and giving clearer guidance on the circumstances in which a determination is required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment Forestry (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 25719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ID": 25719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 665224,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the deforestation regulation and the exceptional power, which you are going to clarify.I would like clarification on one small point. You say that a determination decision would expire after five years. Does it work both ways in being reassessed? In other words, if no need for assessment was determined, would the situation be revised in five years' time if a need had arisen because of changes that had taken place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 665252,
      "EditedText": "Cathy, you have done a grand job in getting that issue across."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 665233,
      "EditedText": "I would prefer to group questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 665235,
      "EditedText": "My question follows on from what Robin has just said and concerns the mechanics of the prior approval period. I, too, was concerned about advertising. The SPICe note states that\"the planning authority … would have a specified period of time in which to consider the proposal\".It goes on:\"If in either of the two stages the planning authority fails to meet these timescales, then the operator would have the right to carry out the development\".That bothers me, because it assumes that local authorities will always be able to meet the time scale. For various reasons, they may on occasion be unable to do that, and something may slip through the net.The other aspect that bothers me slightly is the code of best practice. I would like to know what action could be taken against a local authority if the code of best practice is not adhered to, either by the authority or the developer. The convener mentioned the siting of masts next to high flats; on occasion, local authorities are paid by developers to allow properties to be used. We should have something a bit tighter than a code of best practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 665254,
      "EditedText": "The principle has now been raised and John has said that it can be examined. Is that fair to say?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 665237,
      "EditedText": "I find that worrying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 665239,
      "EditedText": "What about the code of best practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 665242,
      "EditedText": "For the record, I, too, find that worrying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 665246,
      "EditedText": "In early 2000. John, would you like to comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 665247,
      "EditedText": "You know more than I do. Early 2000 has been proposed for the publication of the report from Tessa Jowell's group, so we have a little while to wait for it.The issue of mast replacement and what constitutes the same site must be taken up with the planning authority, not the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 665248,
      "EditedText": "The anomaly is that the planning authority says that it does not have jurisdiction because of the prior approval that was given. I wanted to clarify the fact that the new proposals would not deal effectively with that anomaly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 665249,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the proposals address that anomaly. If you would like to write to me about that case I would be happy to give written comment on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 665257,
      "EditedText": "We would hope that developers already discuss their development plans with planning authorities, but I do not know to what extent that happens. The COSLA representatives may be able to shed some light on whether developers are sharing their planning proposals with planning authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 665258,
      "EditedText": "I thought that the biggest problem arising from the Telecommunications Act 1984 was the fact that cable operators were digging up the roads willy-nilly all over Scotland. We got over that but we now have another implication to deal with.I want to address three issues. First, you have identified that the precautionary principle is the route that you want to take. How will you flesh that out in terms of developing a core standard around which the precautionary principle can be written? It would be dangerous if we ended up with different authorities in different parts of Scotland with different standards and different operating procedures, so we need some guidance from the Executive about how these measures can be put into effect.My second point relates to the precautionary principle governing the positioning of new masts which, if we are being optimistic, will be in effect from the middle of 2000. What impact, if any, will that have on existing masts, some of which may have been located in inappropriate sites under the procedures that operated prior to the precautionary principle being introduced? As a former local councillor I know that one of the problems that planning authorities face is that, given the choice between a more isolated site and a site that is closer to housing, population centres, schools and so on, operators typically proceed on a cheapness-first principle, which generally means that they locate the mast nearer to a populated site, even when an alternative, less potentially hazardous location is available.We might want to write into the precautionary principle some kind of retrospective element in the code of guidance that advises operators to relocate existing masts, where possible, from places where they pose a potential hazard to where they pose a lesser potential hazard. Planning legislation is always about what happens next. We should examine what has already happened and determine whether there is a mechanism that we can introduce.The third issue is the health dimension and how we address it. Perhaps that is a question for the convener rather than for John. When we discuss the health issue it would be worth meeting a health expert who can give us some information. I am conscious that there is a difference between the NRPB standard and the European standard in relation to the emission levels that are considered appropriate. We require some information on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 665270,
      "EditedText": "I want to know whether your consultations came up with real arguments as to why you should not have a full planning procedure, in terms of the delays that operators perceived. On the other hand, are the prior approval procedure delays real? What are the arguments for not moving towards full planning approval?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 665272,
      "EditedText": "But would it be? Cathy said earlier that some planning authorities say that they do not have an issue with that, while others said that they do. It does not sound as if there is a clear position across Scotland as to how the procedures have been dealt with. Like Des, I was formerly a councillor and I saw the work load and how quickly, under the requirements, planning authorities were asked to deal with things. They have performance targets that are, effectively, set by the Executive, which they are meant to achieve. If we had a full planning procedure, would that not clarify the situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 665277,
      "EditedText": "That is right. I can go back to personal experience—I was a local government engineer once upon a time. Most engineering design is done to a British standard code of practice, whether it involves steel, concrete or whatever. Engineers take great comfort from the fact that they have designed something to a British standard because the chances are that their design will stand up and support the loads that it is subjected to. There may be a cheaper and more innovative solution, but that would mean deviating from the code of practice, which in turn might mean being subject to action and criticism for having done so. I suspect that planning advice notes—even if people have not done so already—can be thought of in the same way. It is very easy to defend decisions or actions if you can say that you are following what is laid down in the code of practice. By and large, planning authorities adhere to a code of practice and prefer not to depart from it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 665289,
      "EditedText": "I agree that the NRPB is one of the most important groups that we could talk to besides the industry. Could you clarify how our work would correlate to that of the health committee? If we take evidence from the NRPB, would the health committee want us to do that jointly? What would the mechanism be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Dinsdale: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 665281,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, Edinburgh. Laughter.I would like to provide a brief overview from COSLA's point of view, and then hand over to my colleagues to comment on their particular councils' policies.COSLA welcomes the opportunity to provide a briefing on this issue. I would indicate at the start, however, that this is an area that we are currently investigating. We do not yet have a formal policy. We have carried out a survey of councils' policies on their own property, but it is not yet complete. The results of the survey will feed into a seminar in November that we are organising. We have invited speakers from the industry, the Scottish Executive, local authorities, the NRPB and Friends of the Earth. Members of the committee are welcome to attend, if they think it would be useful.I had intended to cover the legislation, Government consultations and the survey, but I think that I will skip the legislation as John Gunstone has given a fairly extensive presentation. The only point that I would make is that the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (Scotland) Amendment (No.2) Order 1997 and the Telecommunications Act 1984 mean that there is both United Kingdom and Scottish legislation—it would be helpful if there were inter-relating controls.In the review of planning procedures in Scotland relating to telecommunications equipment, councils raised some general points, including: the need for publicity of applications for third party objections to permitted development; the need for early discussion—prior to site acquisition—between the operator and the planning authority; a requirement for site sharing by operators to minimise the number of sites; and the need for details of different mast designs to be provided. One council highlighted the fact that the planning authority could request changes to appearance, landscaping and siting of masts, but that, although operators were expected to respond positively, they were not required to amend proposals on the basis of objections from the local authority. The council is seen as a consultee rather than as a decision maker. Another council thought that the 28-day period should be extended to two months to allow for consultation, advertising and reporting to committee.The proposed code of best practice was generally welcomed. The code should include details of all operators and the areas covered by their licences, and a clear complaints procedure to cover, for example, complaints about work on private property that was outwith the scope of planning legislation.The second consultation that I will comment on is the draft circular on land use planning and electromagnetic fields, which provides guidance to councils in determining applications in the vicinity of power lines or base stations. The circular advises that operators require to comply with health and safety legislation and that there is no reason for planning authorities to take health and safety matters into account. It was pointed out that paragraph 21 states:\"The courts have held that any genuine public perception of danger is a valid planning consideration, although the weight to be given to this will be a matter for the body determining the application taking into account the particular facts of the case\".One council commented that the draft circular should give scope for refusals, where expert advice is inconclusive. The general view was that the draft provides little practical guidance on how land use planning should take issues arising from EMFs into account.On the results from the survey that we carried out, we received 18 responses on councils' policies in relation to applications for sites in their ownership. Eight councils have adopted the precautionary principle or have put in place a temporary moratorium regarding applications for sites on council-owned land and buildings, particularly schools and education premises. A further six councils are reviewing their policies. Two councils have carried out monitoring of electric fields in areas where masts are close to primary schools and nurseries—the findings were well below the levels recommended by Friends of the Earth. Two councils have not adopted specific policies on the issue. The data from the survey will feed into our seminar in November. COSLA is aware that guidance on telecommunications planning policy in relation to health and safety is contained in Scottish Office development department circular 25/85 and that the NRPB has stated that there is no firm evidence that health risks are associated with EMFs. The consistent message from councils is that they are mindful of public anxiety and until studies of the long-term effects are available and conclusively report that there are no risks, precautionary principles will continue to operate on council-owned land and premises.If there are specific issues that I have not covered, we can prepare further evidence. I will now hand over to my colleague."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Hepburn (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 665282,
      "EditedText": "I come from Highland Council, which covers a large geographical area—as I am sure most of the committee will know. We have had considerable experience in dealing with new telecommunications apparatus. There has been a rapid expansion, owing to the evolution of the industry and because Vodafone and Cellnet have entered into an agreement with Highlands and Islands Enterprise. With the assistance of European money, they are establishing wide networks to the most remote parts of the Highlands and Islands. By the nature of the technology, this requires a lot of installations. Since 1996, when the process began, we have had more than 250 notifications, of which only 10 per cent have been planning applications. The rest have been permitted development notifications. As John Gunstone said, they can be fairly significant. For example, the diagram I have with me shows a 15 m mast—approximately 50 ft. It will significantly affect the environment. There have been some controversies, generally on orthodox planning issues of amenity, but a health issue has emerged and is rumbling on. The council's policy is to support telecommunications. It supports the initiative of Vodafone, Cellnet and the development agencies in introducing telecommunications to remote areas as it will assist social and economic development in an area that is bigger than Wales but has a population of 250,000.Because of the increasing number of controversies, the council instigated an informal consultation procedure. We consult local councillors, community councils, Scottish Natural Heritage and anyone else whom we think has a particular concern about a notification that we receive. We get only 28 days to deal with that notification, and the procedure is entirely inadequate, although it does sift out some problems. We have had our successes, where we have been able to advise operators that they should try something else, but we have had our failures too. The operators will have investigated alternatives and they will get to the end of the line and decide that what they wanted in the first place was right. At that point the operator will go ahead with the development, despite the wishes of the council or anyone else.Since 1996, the council has made various representations to the Scottish Office and latterly the Scottish Executive. Highland Council's view is that permitted development, as it is now constituted, should require full planning permission. There is no ambiguity about that whatsoever. Permitted development should be reduced to an insignificant amount—and those remarks are without prejudice to any health issue that might arise from the use of smaller scale apparatus. I felt that it was not clear from the Scottish Executive paper that these masts occur on various scales, from large installations that include many operators, through a continuum to very small items. You will see them here in Edinburgh. Micro-cells are being developed that, in planning terms, are de minimis. They are no more obvious than burglar alarms or light fitments on the side of buildings. The problem of scale must be taken into account for planning and in health terms.Highland Council's view on prior notification is that it is an entirely unsatisfactory hybrid process, bureaucratic, and procedurally not helpful to either the public or the planning authority or, I would argue, to a developer. If a developer is faced with a full planning application, it has a proper pathway to a decision, whether through the council or the Scottish Executive. I was disheartened by what John Gunstone said this morning, because decisions appear to have been taken already. As a practising planner, I believe that there is no advantage whatsoever in undertaking a prior notification procedure, or to the time scales that that will involve, as compared with dealing with a planning application in the normal way. John Gunstone commented on neighbour notification. One of the features of any existing prior notification arrangements—for example for agricultural buildings—is that no neighbour notification is required. The public do not understand that they can get a 15 m mast on their doorstep without notification, but that they will be notified if their next-door neighbour wants to build on a front porch. That inconsistency must be tackled and I am not confident that the prior notification procedure as described will do that. A full planning application is by far the best way forward. It would place no greater burden on planning authorities than the prior notification procedure. In Highland Council, prior notification would raise even more difficulties in terms of the staff and the time that we would need to give it. Also, we would give more or less full planning consideration to those issues but we would not get a planning fee. That fiscal issue must be taken into account.The council is aware of persistent expressions of public concern on health issues. For our part, we have adopted an interim policy which is precautionary in a sense: whether we would allow these installations on sensitive properties—schools or old people's homes or whatever—is subject to formal council consideration. That policy is pending further guidance from Government or the National Radiological Protection Board, which may be long in coming and inconclusive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 665285,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. We will revisit those issues but, in the meantime, are there any questions for the COSLA representatives?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 665287,
      "EditedText": "If there are no further questions, it remains to me to thank our visitors very much. As I said, we will probably investigate this matter further. I am interested in the seminar that was mentioned, as I am sure other committee members will be. We look forward to receiving details of it.Can I have a general view from the committee on whether we wish to proceed further with this matter? I take it from the level of questioning and interest that the answer is yes. We plan to have further briefings on the matter. We should take cognisance of the COSLA seminar, which will bring together other bodies, and we can also call people to tell the committee their views. It may be appropriate to invite the NRPB, the industry itself, Friends of the Earth, who have been fairly vocal on the matter, and other organisations that may have a view.On health, we could proceed in two ways. We could hear evidence here but not take direct action on the information that we receive. Alternatively, we could work jointly with the Health and Community Care Committee. Those are the parameters. I am not saying that that is what we have to do, but I wanted to give you a flavour of the possibilities."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 665291,
      "EditedText": "I have a slight reservation about going down the route of endless joint investigations. It could be argued that the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee should be involved in every possible investigation, as its remit covers everything, and that this committee, as an environment committee, could get involved in housing issues. It would be helpful if committee conveners could agree early on about how they intend to play that issue.I do not think that we should be too worried about taking a bit of health evidence in relation to something that we are pursuing as an area of interest of our own. If that suits our work plan, that seems fine to me. We should notify the health committee that that is what we are doing, but I would prefer not to end up in a situation in which the two committees take joint evidence as a routine mechanism. That could be quite clumsy, so we need some protocol to allow us to maintain the integrity of inquiries. As we evolve, we can work something out in practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 665299,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 665303,
      "EditedText": "I take my advice from the clerk, who says that there is no requirement for those reports to come to the committee, but that it is our choice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 665305,
      "EditedText": "That point is valid and well made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 665307,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are taking a bite-size approach. I take on board what Cathy has said.Are there any other questions on the work programme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ID": 25722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 665319,
      "EditedText": "We have received three invitations. One is from ScotRail, to travel on the Turbostar train on its preview journey on Thursday 23 September, which is tomorrow. How are people fixed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 22 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25717,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25717,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 665182,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:03"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 665192,
      "EditedText": "My question is whether moves towards a waste management strategy have fully informed the way in which the regulations have been framed. Are we imposing adequate requirements on new developments, to ensure that they have waste management strategies in place as part of an environmental impact assessment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 665197,
      "EditedText": "As far as environmental assessment is concerned, we would probably consider the water authorities as developers rather than as regulators. They build sewage treatment works and water treatment works, both of which fall within the scope of environmental assessment. Arguably, we are looking through different ends of the telescope. Where there is a concern about pollution of water that the water authority might subsequently want to use for the water supply, we would have to rely on the Scottish Environment Protection Agency to protect the water environment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 665200,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Would you like to move on to Murray's question on permitted development rights?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 665201,
      "EditedText": "Yes, the regulations are dense, and I would not want to sit here and try to explain how they work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 665203,
      "EditedText": "The key thing to remember about permitted development and environmental assessment is that, if a scheme that is subject to a planning application is caught by the environmental assessment provisions, it no longer has permitted development rights. In fairness, that regulation appears only in the permitted development legislation. In other words, if a developer is proceeding with a project for which he does not think that he needs planning permission, and if the nature of the development means that it requires an environmental impact assessment, the permitted development rights fall and the developer is required to submit a planning application—he is therefore caught by the environmental impact provisions"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 665210,
      "EditedText": "Could you give any indication as to how fast the system works at the moment? You say that there have been 400 assessments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 665215,
      "EditedText": "I hear what you say. You mean that you would not like to see this as an increased burden on developers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 665216,
      "EditedText": "They are doing a lot already. What they are being asked to do is entirely consistent and correct, but I am concerned that they will have to provide another great tier of paperwork."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 25718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 665218,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, John, for your presentation, for the paper that you provided and for answering the questions. I appreciate that that is difficult when you do not know from where any of the questions might come. We welcome your contribution, which has given us a much clearer understanding of the SSI. Is the committee content, both with the presentation and with the content of the SSI?Members indicated assent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment Forestry (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 25719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25719,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 665220,
      "EditedText": "We move now to a similar process with regard to agenda item 2. This instrument was laid on 3 September 1999 and is subject to annulment until 27 October 1999. The European Committee and the Rural Affairs Committee have considered the instrument and have nothing to report. The Subordinate Legislation Committee considered the instrument at its meeting yesterday. We await the formal report from that committee, but I understand that the committee intends to draw the regulations to the Parliament's attention because it appears that there has been an undue delay in implementing European Community legislation. Moreover, the regulations were brought into force unreasonably soon after they were made, which resulted in an unjustifiable breach of the 21-day rule. The Subordinate Legislation Committee also raised concerns about drafting. The committee's concerns were to do not with content, but with process, so it has every right to do what it has done. We are more focused on the content. The Forestry Commission has submitted a briefing paper and representatives have come to speak to it, including Roger Herbert. I want to say \"Come on down, Roger\", but I had better not. Oh well—it is in the Official Report now. David Henderson-Howat is also with us.We very much appreciate your coming along to discuss this matter. Can you please give us a quick presentation on the SSI?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment Forestry (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 25719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ID": 25719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 665222,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Roger. The structure of the two papers is similar, so we appreciate the fact that you have been able to truncate your presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment Forestry (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 25719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roger Herbert: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 665225,
      "EditedText": "On the larger impact of deforestation, there are a number of circumstances in which we are trying to change things. Forestry policy and practices have moved on, as members will appreciate, and there are circumstances in which the removal of woodlands and plantations would have environmental benefits. The mechanism will enable us to judge the cases in which there would be an environmental gain from removing woodland. For example, we may be removing previously established plantations from what are now regarded as more sensitive areas.We have one or two examples up in the flow country, where some deforestation proposals might be coming forward. The process of environmental impact assessment will allow us to assess properly those circumstances. We felt that, in setting thresholds, we needed a mechanism that allowed us to pick up exceptional cases below the threshold. With the best will in the world, there will always be the exception. Relatively small cases of afforestation or deforestation might be outwith a sensitive area, yet have an impact on a species or on the visual appearance of a location. We were keen to ensure that, in those exceptional circumstances, we were able to call for an EIA if one was required.On the five-year expiry point, we felt that circumstances change. Nothing stands still in life or nature—species move around from location to location. For example, somebody might come forward with another proposal for an area that was given a determination four or five years ago, the work might not have gone ahead and a species might have moved into the area. Sensitivities and views on sensitivities could have changed. Therefore, we felt the need to limit the termination period and—if work had not been carried out—ask for proposals to be resubmitted after a five-year period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment Forestry (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 25719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 665228,
      "EditedText": "I thank Roger Herbert and David Henderson-Howat for coming along today. We appreciate the paper that you submitted and the presentation, which, because John Gunstone had covered some of the territory, was shorter than it would have been. Thank you for answering our questions. Is the committee content with the SSI?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 665229,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Elaine Smith, who has joined us for agenda item 3. A number of members have expressed an interest in telecommunications development, and Cathy Craigie and others have been declaring their views on the matter. It is certainly a topical issue. The committee identified telecommunications development as one of its priority considerations and a briefing note on the subject was prepared by the Parliament's information centre. Members have a copy of that and will appreciate that it is a well-constructed explanation of the issues, organisations and views involved. We appreciate Stephen Curtis's work on it. The Scottish Executive and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities have been invited to brief the committee on the process for consideration of telecommunications development. Following our discussions with those who are submitting evidence to us today, we may wish to investigate the matter further. I suggest that, if we do that, we agree terms of reference for an inquiry and our approach to taking evidence. That, and to assess the views of the Executive and COSLA, is the purpose of what I would call the pre-investigation stage. I invite John Gunstone, on behalf of the Scottish Executive, to rejoin us. He will brief the committee on the process for consideration of telecommunications development, the issues involved and the outcome of recent consultations. You are having a busy morning—welcome back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 665231,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, John. I am sure that we have all been lobbied by people who are very concerned about this issue. The East Kilbride high flats residents associations have contacted me and Cathy has told me that people in other areas have been lobbying. I thank John for providing us with some of the history behind the regulations and reiterating the Executive's position on the action that it intends to take. I now open up the discussion to committee members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 665232,
      "EditedText": "I come from Fife, where for the past 18 months there has been great concern about telecommunications masts. John may have been informed about that by the solicitors of Fife Council. When I was on the council's strategic development committee, I pushed to get it to introduce a policy that would begin to address some of the issues.I am particularly concerned that in all that John has said and in all that I have read so far there has been very little mention of the European dimension. There are references to the National Radiological Protection Board, which is considering the health and safety aspects, and to other work that is going on internationally, but there is not much about Europe. However, I understand that an expert body was established and reported, and that it later indicated that further work was needed. The body neither dismissed the health concerns nor concluded that people were definitely at risk.I accept that health and safety is a matter reserved to the Westminster Parliament and that the developers will continue to want to take these projects forward, but I am a great believer in the Maastricht treaty, which articulates the precautionary principle. We do not seem to be applying that in this case, so that local authorities can be given unambiguous advice on how to deal with planning applications for masts. Will John comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 665244,
      "EditedText": "We may wish to speak with the NRPB on that matter at a future date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 665250,
      "EditedText": "I will do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 665260,
      "EditedText": "If we could work out what we wanted to say, regarding guidance on the precautionary principle, we could give such guidance. The NRPB is saying, among other things, that there is no good reason for establishing a cordon sanitaire around masts. It would be difficult for ministers to give definitive guidance and to defend the necessity of having masts at particular distances from residential areas on health or other grounds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 665262,
      "EditedText": "Last year, in conjunction with the Executive health department, we issued a draft paper on electromagnetic fields and planning. To an extent, that paper served only to stir up the issue; it did not solve much. That has perhaps been constructive, as we have brought the debate out. It will be some time before we find a clear way forward.If the decree were to come out, \"Thou shalt not build a mast within 50 m of a residential dwelling,\" what would that do to the value of a property that was already within 50 m of a mast? It would be blighted until the offending mast was moved. Questions are raised of who pays for that and how it is brought about. We are not in that position yet. The order could be extended further than saying that there should not be a residential property within 50 m of a telecommunications mast. What about a broadcasting station? What about electricity pylons and substations? I am not an expert on electromagnetic fields, but I know that those things generate electromagnetic fields. Should one be allowed within 5 m of the microwave oven in one's kitchen? Without wanting to trivialise the matter, I point out that we are exposed to electromagnetic fields every day. As I said earlier, we must try to keep things in perspective, based on the right evidence from people who are in a position to give that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 665263,
      "EditedText": "Convener, I want to pick you up on the point that you made about our future course of action. John indicated that there were seven areas of control in which the Executive intended to take action. Would that involve Executive action rather than legislation? Some of those areas clearly require only Executive action; no law would have to be passed to introduce a planning advice notice. Is there any requirement for legislation on those seven principles? If we were to try to exercise what our briefing note calls \"full planning control\", would that require legislation? If we were to try to make any regulatory system retrospective, would that also raise issues of legislation and compensation? How do you think we should proceed on this issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 665264,
      "EditedText": "The first five proposals that are being progressed—all except the code of best practice and the preparation of advice on the use of planning agreements to encourage mast sharing—require changes to regulations at the level of secondary legislation. We can make those changes without a planning bill, as soon as our solicitors can get the work done for us.On the question of full planning control, we could also achieve that—if we wanted it—by regulation. The effect would be to remove class 67 from the permitted development order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 665265,
      "EditedText": "The third leg of my questions was on the attempt to make a regulatory regime retrospective. Could we do that by secondary legislation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 665268,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in the consideration of full planning permission, having read some of the notes. The point was put that there are delays to operators, in terms of the prior approval mechanism, or method. Are those delays significant and did the result of the consultation that you conducted earlier in the year suggest that they would continue to be significant if we moved towards full planning control? I do not hear any arguments as to why you should not have a full planning procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 665269,
      "EditedText": "Is that the question, or is the question—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 665274,
      "EditedText": "Oh, really? What is wrong with that, then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Gunstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 665275,
      "EditedText": "I think that the argument is that there is no absolute requirement to apply full planning control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 665276,
      "EditedText": "We should remember the stage that we are at in our discussion. There is other advice that we can take and other organisations that we can consult. To be fair, Tavish, we could pursue that point on another day, so to speak. Are there any other questions from committee members?I wish to ask about the code of practice and your perception of how the codes of practice work within local authorities. I was not a councillor, but I used to work in local government. We had to pay due attention to codes of practice—otherwise, although the codes are not legislative or prescriptive, staff would find themselves in some difficulty at a later stage. What is your view on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 665278,
      "EditedText": "The speakers from COSLA who are to follow may want to pick up on that point.John, thank you very much. That was very useful and we appreciate your coming.Mary Dinsdale, Dr Andrew Mackie and Bill Hepburn of COSLA will now join us, to brief the committee on the procedure for telecommunications development from local authorities' perspective. They will talk about the telecommunications development issues facing local authorities and local authorities' response to recent consultations and guidance on the matter.We appreciate your coming along. I know who Mary is—Mary, could you do us a favour by introducing your colleagues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Andrew Mackie (Convention of Scottish Local Authorities): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 665280,
      "EditedText": "Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Mackie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 665284,
      "EditedText": "I have a few supplementary remarks regarding the precautionary principle and the difficulties that councils face in responding to public perception and opinion. Those difficulties arise partly because the councils, as we have heard, do not have the planning powers that the public perceive them to have. Further, the councils own large numbers of properties and, particularly in urban areas, telecommunications operators consider those properties to be ideal sites. Councils also have the additional responsibility of considering the situation with regard to their tenants, schoolchildren, older people and so on.The precautionary principle, which has been mentioned quite a lot this morning, is a very ill-defined statement. It does not apply to telecommunications alone, but was incorporated into the Maastricht treaty to apply to anything where there could be concern about a health risk or some other aspect of life. It is being developed, in a piecemeal fashion, to apply to telecommunications activities and, in many cases, it is being interpreted as meaning either a ban or a moratorium on the erection of masts in certain locations. That may not be the most appropriate way forward; therefore there is a need for further guidance.I will give an example. If, after a precautionary principle was adopted, it was decided not to erect a mast on top of a school, the telecommunications director may decide to erect the mast on private land adjacent to that school. As a consequence, the exposure—perceived or otherwise—that the children in the school would receive will be the same whether the mast is on the school or adjacent to it.The precautionary principle needs to be fleshed out in a great deal more detail. Many aspects—such as the configuration of the operator's particular antenna at a given location, the power rating, the likely levels of emissions at different points at ground level or in different locations on adjacent buildings—need to be brought into a code of practice. The code could assist local authorities to evaluate individual sites, to determine whether they present a potential risk to the community, and to make a judgment based on that evaluation.At present, because there is a lack of information, local authorities take different views, some in response to public opinion and others in response to perceived scientific information. The scientific information is very complex and by no means clear-cut and, in the short to medium term, I do not think that it will be. To expect councils to make scientific judgment on health issues alone is beyond their resources and, in many cases, beyond their expertise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 665286,
      "EditedText": "I have an observation rather than a question. It has been very helpful to hear both sides of the argument this morning and I appreciate everyone's work and effort. The presentations were very interesting. I am not opposed to mobile phones—I love new technology—but I want the sort of approach that has been illustrated this morning to be adopted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25720,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 665290,
      "EditedText": "I would need to discuss the matter with the Convener of the Health and Community Care Committee to establish whether that approach would be welcomed. We are all under different pressures. This committee has a huge work load, and it would understandable if other committees wanted to stick to their plans. If it cannot be done because of the pressure of work on that committee, I suggest that we revert to plan B, to bring witnesses to this committee only. We would be limited in the action that we could take, but we could refer the matter back to the health committee or to the floor of the chamber. In summary, our best course of action would be to conduct a joint investigation with the health committee. If that committee cannot assist us, we shall have to do it ourselves and, depending on the results, deflect the matter to other parts of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Telecommunications Development",
      "HeadingID": 25720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 25720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 665296,
      "EditedText": "Consensus has indeed broken out.It is necessary for this committee to have some background on the health issue but not to get too hung up on it. Information about the health aspect could inform our decisions as to how regulatory the planning regulations should be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
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      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 665298,
      "EditedText": "We are continuing the distillation process in regard to our work programme and putting some meat on what we have previously discussed. As you will all be aware, at our last meeting, we identified a number of priorities. One was telecommunications, which we have agreed to pursue. The list also included concessionary fares, further briefing in the framework for water and fuel proposals and rural petrol stations.It has been difficult to ensure that we reflect the requirements of the committee and the desire to consider certain areas. A number of Scottish statutory instruments are coming our way. We need to bear that in mind, as consideration of such instruments is one of our roles. Petitions will come our way, too, as will matters referred to us by other committees. By the end of December, we will have draft legislative proposals for transport, national parks, land reform and the access question. Around that time, we will also have the Executive report on the strategic roads review and, probably, the outcome of the national waste strategy consultation process.We have had to be cautious in our approach to the work programme. The draft programme that you have before you is not set in stone; it is an attempt to regulate the way we are going to work in the coming months. We will respond to matters that the committee raises."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 665300,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with it, too, but I would like to know when we will be able to discuss our next round. As you all know—I have lobbied you individually—I am keen for us to get involved in the genetically modified foods debate. All day today and tomorrow, a big conference is taking place in Edinburgh, at Heriot-Watt University. Evidence is being taken from both sides and that might provide us with a good lead as to which people we want to invite to appear before the committee in order to have a balanced argument. It is a matter of enormous public concern and we should signify as soon as possible that we are prepared to take on the debate. The only person who backs me on that point is not here at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 665304,
      "EditedText": "Can I make a plea that we could do that when the reports are published? I presume that publication is tied to the financial year, so we could not hear from witnesses until well into next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 665309,
      "EditedText": "There seems to be general approval for that suggestion and I am happy to take it on board."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665310",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 665310,
      "EditedText": "This morning was slightly different. We laid a marker that we wanted the matter properly dealt with and were establishing a better standard than had existed. That may settle down. I am impressed by the fact that my business manager notified me that there were five SSIs to deal with. This issue will just keep rolling.As I suspect that not every member is all that excited about many of these instruments, perhaps it would be more appropriate to establish a sub-committee, which would take the issue out of the committee agenda. Are there any volunteers for that body? If we deal with the matter in 15 minutes at the end of the meeting, there will be a risk of people not paying attention. Traffic regulations and the Parking Attendants (Wearing of Uniforms) (City of Glasgow Parking Area) Regulations 1999 do not sound terribly exciting, but we have to discharge our duty properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 665313,
      "EditedText": "I do not agree with the idea of a sub-committee. There is merit in all of us considering the SSIs, even if briefly. Murray says that committee members will not pay much attention to the matter, but those of us who are not on that sub-committee will pay even less attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 665314,
      "EditedText": "I share Nora's view. With respect to Murray, we can suck it and see and if there is a problem, we might revisit the option. However, Murray is right. We laid down a marker with the first two instruments by having a written briefing and presentations to the committee. I would not choose to have that mechanism at every meeting; a written briefing might be fine for most occasions. If we are discussing an area of significance, we might invite a representative from the Executive or another body to brief us. This is a fledgling committee. As we will be around for a long time, we will take Murray's view on board and, based on what happens in the next few months, we might revisit the topic.I have lost track of things. Is Robin next to speak, then Cathy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 665315,
      "EditedText": "I just want to mention a couple of points. There was quite a lot of information to read through for this committee and, as I had a full day of commitments yesterday, I was unable to give as much attention to those papers as I would have liked. I would have asked further questions about the forestry SSI, but I needed time to consult a few people outside the chamber, particularly on the issue of acreage where there might be concern. However, I will not know about such concerns until I have collected further evidence. Can we come back to such a question and say, \"After consultation over a period of weeks, we find that there is a problem that we have not spotted\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 665316,
      "EditedText": "The way around that is to require such papers to come before the committee at a specified time and to invite written questions. That kind of business has a schedule and people putting such material before us will know that they have to meet a deadline if the issue is to be discussed by a particular committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 25721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ID": 25721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 665317,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful if the need for a briefing were anticipated well in advance of the designation of the lead committee. We do not need to wait a long time for Parliament to designate the committee to know that some committees will need certain information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ID": 25722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 665321,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that Inverness is on the route, but I could perhaps arrange it. You might end up somewhere else on the way back, Linda.There has been an invitation from the Confederation of Passenger Transport, the trade association for bus, coach and light rail, to meet with them and attend a dinner on 16 or 17 November, to meet operators. My personal view is that that is a bit early. It would be more appropriate to meet them when we are discussing buses and rail and so on. That is not to say that I have not informed members about their intentions.We also have an invitation to visit the plant at Dounreay, to familiarise the committee members with the on-site activities and to discuss the issues. I would again argue that it would be more appropriate to go there when we are discussing related matters. I think that we should respond positively to both those organisations, but arrange the visits when they would fit more appropriately with what we are discussing. Does that meet with the approval of the committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ID": 25722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 665322,
      "EditedText": "Have I forgotten anything else, Linda? If not, I thank members for their attendance and for another very good meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3964
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ID": 25722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 665323,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:25."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.5150078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 418075,
      "EditedText": "As a member of the Public Petitions Committee—I am sure that Phil and Pauline, who are members too, will be with me on this—I feel that I should inform you that we are trying to provide guidelines for the presentation of petitions. To be blunt about Mr Frank's petition, it is rather rambling in places. We are trying to have the process for the submission of petitions tightened up so that there is clarity when petitions are remitted to other committees.I agree with you that petitions must be taken seriously. People make an effort to submit petitions to the Parliament and, although we might find some of them difficult to follow at times, they are calls for the Parliament to do things and should be treated in a fitting manner.Phil, Pauline and I will take this petition back to our other committee and try to assist Mr Frank to formulate his submission so that the point is clearly made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 418079,
      "EditedText": "Can I assist you on that? The Public Petitions Committee discussed that yesterday and made it plain that that would be one of the areas where a petition would not be admissible, because it would be endeavouring to review an appeal. In defence of the Public Petitions Committee, we are finding our way and are trying not to be too hard on petitioners to start with. To assist people, we are beginning to structure things to make plain what is competent and not competent, admissible and inadmissible. We dealt with that yesterday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 418097,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, I have misled you; we want to deal with the continuation of interdicts with the power of arrest for cohabitees after they separate, so that there is protection for cohabitees. That will reflect social changes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 418187,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that. I acknowledge the difficulties that face the police in this issue and I know that many officers do not subscribe to the view that says, \"It's just a domestic.\" I have seen police bending the law to assist in domestic circumstances—perhaps I should not have said that, as it will go in the minutes—to the benefit of both parties in the long run. Once the heat has gone out of the situation, people often get on with their lives. Do you accept that many women are so browbeaten that they have not got the strength of will that you or I might have to use powers of arrest?I should perhaps have asked Mrs Smith this question. Do you think that, in addition to applying the stick, the courts have a role in recommending counselling—I hate those American expressions—for the offending spouse or partner in those circumstances?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 418189,
      "EditedText": "Do we have information on that project in our papers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 418250,
      "EditedText": "I will leave it, then, as it is a difficulty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 418252,
      "EditedText": "Your second suggestion, Sheriff Wilkinson, is that we produce a bill that either amends or stands alone to work in tandem with the 1981 act. That would deal with domestic violence by extending protection and making the presumption of cohabitation—under your definition—a loose one, to be rebutted.My third point covers our concerns about the complexities if we leave the 1981 act standing in cases before the courts. Fourthly, I ask Sheriff Wilkinson for his views on Mr Wood's point on the disposal, the probationary system for husbands, spouses, partners or whatever. Should that system be included in any bill rather than a power of arrest being attached?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 418254,
      "EditedText": "No, it was Mr Wood, but what are your views on a probation system as another option for the courts, rather than arrest and incarceration, which seems quite draconian?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 22 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 418064,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry for the slightly late start. We are not accustomed to holding committee meetings in the chamber and the organisation is rather different. I welcome everybody to the meeting.There are one or two small items on the agenda of which we need to dispose before we move on to the major items, which involve the witnesses. I hope that the witnesses will bear with us for a few minutes while we do a little housekeeping.First, I suggest that we take item 3 on the agenda—future business—in private, for half an hour around noon. We have to discuss, in some detail, the evidence that we have heard so far in both of the issues that we are investigating. We need to make some practical decisions about how to take those issues forward. I cannot make a decision to meet in private; the committee must agree that that is appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 22 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 418065,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is an excellent suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 418069,
      "EditedText": "I was going to suggest that, in the first instance, we should write to the Minister for Justice and inquire as to what consideration—if any—is being given to the general area of law the petition covers. We could establish whether the Executive is considering the matter and what approach it is taking. We could wait until we receive a reply from the minister before we decide whether the committee wants to take the matter any further.At the moment, I do not have any information about what is being considered in relation to that area of law. There might be—or have been—consultation or discussion that would affect what is being suggested in the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 418071,
      "EditedText": "In any case, the committee might not want to progress the matter in the early stages of the committee's meetings, given the work load that we have. We have already started a couple of important areas of investigation and there would be problems finding time to deal with this one.It would be useful to write to the minister to find out whether the Executive is doing anything. That would move us forward a little bit. When we get the Executive's response, we can discuss the matters that Phil raised and decide whether the committee wants to address the issues that are raised in the letter.Does everyone agree with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 418074,
      "EditedText": "When we receive petitions, we must deal with them seriously. I would want this petition to be treated seriously. My concern is with its admissibility. Before we begin to consider petitions, we have to be clear that they are admissible. I want to know why the Public Petitions Committee thought that this one was."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 418076,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful. Is the committee agreed that we should send the petition back to the Public Petitions Committee to secure a clearer explanation of why it is considered admissible and to ask for it to be submitted in a form in which we are more able to deal with it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 418077,
      "EditedText": "Your comments are valid. The Public Petitions Committee will also welcome your comments on attempts to overturn court decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 418082,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to the main item of business, which is a continued discussion of domestic violence, with the emphasis on considering potential changes to the matrimonial interdict legislation in Scotland. A number of eminent people are giving us evidence. We are extremely grateful that the witnesses have taken the time and trouble to come this morning. Many may have been pleased to receive the invitation, although perhaps others were not so pleased. We are progressing a particular aspect of the domestic violence debate through this committee. It is useful to hear a wide range of views and concerns from every side of the debate and to hear from some of the practitioners involved. That is why invitations have gone out to the organisations represented here today.First, we will hear from the Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence, which has been operating since earlier this year. It would be foolish to discuss this issue as a committee without hearing from the partnership. We are lucky this morning to have—despite her court commitments—Mrs Anne Smith QC, who is the chairman of the Scottish partnership. Will you give us a brief outline of what you have been doing and the areas that you cover?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Anne Smith (Chairman, Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 418083,
      "EditedText": "I tender Sheriff Daniel Convery's apologies. He had hoped to join me today but has been unable to do so due to his court commitments. We have been working not just since the beginning of this year, but since last autumn. We were appointed under a Government remit, which asked us to recommend a strategy to deal with domestic violence. We will examine service provision, monitoring, costing and make recommendations for legislation and changes in policy.We held a number of meetings to develop a work plan. We heard from groups that had information to give us on the incidence of domestic violence in the community and the way different groups are dealing with prevention and protection. We issued our work plan in March this year. I checked that it was available for you, and hope that members have all had the opportunity to see it. Consultation has been going on since March. We meet next week to review the responses to the work plan and to consider how we will progress.There is a lot of work to do, as you will see from the many boxes that have different time scales identified in the work plan. I know that there is not time for me to take you through it. I encourage you all to read it.The partnership has 20 members, and we come from all sorts of different backgrounds. I, as a lawyer, chair it, and we have other legal representation from the judiciary, from legal practice and from the Crown Office. We also have police, health board and prison representation, as well as representation from Women's Aid and from the children's rights and support section of Women's Aid. We have representation from Victim Support, from Rape Crisis and from the health, home, education, industry, housing, civil law and legal aid departments of the Scottish Executive. That is a great group to work with, as we can draw from many aspects of experience with domestic violence. I think that we manage to strike a balance between the varying interests that are represented."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 418086,
      "EditedText": "You are aware that this committee has begun to examine matrimonial interdicts. Right at the beginning of our proceedings, five or six committee members said that they wanted to address the issue of domestic violence. Maureen Macmillan subsequently suggested that a committee-initiated bill could be presented to Parliament. From your point of view, as chair of the partnership, how would that fit into what you are doing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 418088,
      "EditedText": "I raised the issue because I thought that it was very important. I wanted to make progress on it rather than wait for the package to come from Mrs Smith's committee, which might take another year to present anything to Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 418101,
      "EditedText": "Do not get me wrong. The Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence would, of course, welcome any improvement in protection for women at risk. My anxiety is that by doing that one little bit of legislation, the problem could get lost sight of—the feeling could be that it has been dealt with.We are worried that by focusing purely on married women or on women who are cohabitees, you will miss other women. The essence of the problem is not whether a case is one relating to marriage or cohabitation; it is whether it is a case of a woman who can reasonably say that she is at risk from a man. It does not matter whether there is a background of marriage or cohabitation if she can satisfy a court that there is a risk—it may be from a pre-existing relationship—of her being physically or psychologically harmed by a man."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 418102,
      "EditedText": "You will not find any argument about that among members of the committee. We do not pretend that this committee-initiated bill has the potential to deal with the whole problem of domestic violence. We have known from the start, and have made it explicit, that that is not the intention.Apart from anything else, addressing all the issues would take much longer than the short period we have been considering the matter. We have focused on this issue because it seems most amenable to legislative change without causing disruption in other areas. That is always a problem if something is taken out of context.We are concerned to establish from the partnership whether by proceeding on this basis we will rock any boats. That is not the same as saying that the wider problem might get lost. That will not happen as long as this committee is meeting, because after you have produced your report you will be back before us to discuss the whole range of issues on which you have reached conclusions. This is not about losing anything, but about whether our focusing narrowly on married women and cohabitees will cause any practical difficulty. From what you are saying, that would not seem to be the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 418108,
      "EditedText": "As you will see from our work plan, we expect that some work will carry on through 2000 and into 2001, but after that we will be into monitoring periods. We meet on Monday to consider the responses to the work plan, and I hope from next week to take forward some positive aspects of our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 418109,
      "EditedText": "When is a draft bill, rather than a report from the partnership, likely to be available?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 418110,
      "EditedText": "I cannot tell the committee that. I can say only when we will report. I would love to be involved in drafting a bill, but as yet I have received no indication that the partnership will be involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 418111,
      "EditedText": "So the partnership is likely to report on proposed legislative changes by March next year, but that is not to say that there will be draft legislation by then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 418119,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that you will never arrive at a satisfactory definition of cohabitation and that you will create scope for argument about whether people qualify within the terms of the definition. By worrying about that, the committee is missing the point. As you have recognised, many women out there need protection. They should be entitled to that if they can demonstrate that they are at risk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 418123,
      "EditedText": "I am aware of it as a lawyer, but the partnership has not examined it. As chairman of the Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence, I could not responsibly comment on the submission, because it has not come before us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 418125,
      "EditedText": "In my capacity as chairman of SPDV, I cannot comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 418131,
      "EditedText": "You have raised a number of matters, Gordon; I will go back to the beginning first. Occupancy rights are a separate issue from giving a woman protection from an abuser. I am not suggesting that any women who is potentially a victim gets an occupancy right. Of course, that has important ramifications in property law. I would not like the partnership to lose credibility by irresponsibly saying that any women who is at risk from a man can get his house. That is not what we are about. Put occupancy rights to one side for the moment, and look at the protection of a woman. We are told that where there is a power of arrest, it makes a difference in the way the police behave. In most instances, they act responsibly and promptly if it is intimated to them that a power of arrest is attached to an interdict. You are right that in common law any woman who is at risk can go to court and get a protective order, if she can satisfy the court that she is liable to be harmed by a man. What she cannot get through common law is the power of arrest. That has, as I understand it, proved to be one of the most valuable tools in the 1981 act.Between April 1998 and February 1999 the Scottish Legal Aid Board dealt with 2,305 applications for interdict. In my experience, and from speaking to people involved in the sheriff courts where most such interdicts are sought, those interdict applicants will almost invariably have sought power of arrest as well. They can do that because of the statutory power; it is not common law. Again and again, that has been portrayed to us as what those women need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 418134,
      "EditedText": "I will not bore for Britain, but could you not just make a change to common law by adding powers of arrest into interdicts in a more general sense?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 418137,
      "EditedText": "That is what is being looked for at the moment.You may be interested that between April 1998 and February 1999, the Scottish Legal Aid Board had only 34 applications for what they call the 1981 act orders. I think that they are talking about applications for exclusion orders. We were surprised that there were only 34, but we asked people who have experience of the sheriff courts, and apparently the courts are not seeing many applications for exclusion orders now. We have not yet worked out why that is.My impression is that when the act came into force there were many applications for exclusion orders, but they tailed off. I do not know whether that is because matters are sorting themselves out and men are realising that they have to leave and then leaving, or whether women are managing to find other accommodation. However, it is an interesting statistic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 418139,
      "EditedText": "No, it has not told us that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 418140,
      "EditedText": "I am curious because, despite repeated attempts to find that out, it seems that the Scottish Legal Aid Board makes no attempt to track that. Everywhere one goes there is anecdotal evidence and not a great deal else. That could include all categories of women, whether or not they live within the matrimonial home, and could also protect single-sex couples."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 418149,
      "EditedText": "Another idea that the committee might consider has been floating around. Current thinking on the matrimonial interdict, as it is called—I hesitate about the word matrimonial as it sounds limiting, but we know what I am talking about—tends to focus on protecting the woman from the man turning up on her doorstep. That is not the only protection required. We also need to protect women in the workplace and at school. It may be effective for legislation to specify that the court has the power to say that the man cannot go into certain areas other than the home."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 418152,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that that point has been raised because I want to return to Gordon Jackson's question, as it seems to me that there may be an obvious answer. Would not it solve the problem to put interdicts on a statutory footing for domestic situations, or whatever the term is changed to? If the problem is not just the man turning up on the doorstep, but getting power of arrest if the partner even suggests that he is going to go to the school, why cannot we have a law that introduces a statutory framework for that type of interdict with powers of arrest? We would not have to legislate or define cohabitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 418154,
      "EditedText": "I am no expert in these matters. In your view, Mrs Smith, would it be easy to deal with the power of arrest? We could add powers of arrest—which would be either at the discretion of the sheriff or mandatory—into the interdict framework in a general way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 418157,
      "EditedText": "It would not be difficult. I also want the courts to be told that they have the power to specify places that the man has to stay away from. That would be similar to bail conditions that are commonly used by sheriffs and are quite effective in rural areas. Bail is often conditional on a man not going within, say, half a mile of his wife's home."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 418158,
      "EditedText": "On one famous occasion, a man was banned from Stranraer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 418160,
      "EditedText": "There is no common law provision to grant a power of arrest, which is why that came in with the 1981 act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 418161,
      "EditedText": "We have probably exhausted our questions for this morning, Mrs Smith. I have no doubt that you will be before us again, probably many times. Thank you for coming. I hope that you did not find it too unpleasant.Our next witnesses represent the police. I welcome their input as it is important that the police get a chance to contribute to the way the law might change.We have Chief Superintendent Stewart Davidson, who is the president of the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents. He is accompanied by Deputy Chief Constable Tom Wood, from the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, and Chief Inspector Lesley Warrender.We are grateful to all three of you for coming this morning. Thank you for the brief that you sent to the committee. Given the scene-setting that Mrs Smith gave us, we could start with our questions, unless you have an overwhelming desire to make a short statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 418164,
      "EditedText": "The policy paper that you submitted said that Fife constabulary feels that the increase in the number of incidents of domestic violence that are being reported has come about as a result of procedural changes. Over the last 10 or 15 years, have there been real changes in the domestic violence scene, or do you think that the increase in reports is because more people are reporting domestic violence now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 418166,
      "EditedText": "I do not dispute that, but you have highlighted—and it is mentioned specifically in your report—that the problem goes very deep. Is it getting worse by the month?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 418168,
      "EditedText": "Certain matrimonial interdicts are granted that include a power of arrest; other interdicts do not include that. This committee is considering expanding that power of arrest with interdicts to anyone who is reasonably apprehensive that they are in danger from attack. Would the police welcome that? How important does the police service think that is? This is about the reality of women having violence inflicted upon them or, equally important, the fear of that because of a lack of power of arrest.You are here to tell us what happens on the street, whereas our experience is very theoretical. To put it bluntly, from your perspective, are many women being attacked or hurt in those circumstances? What difference does the power of arrest make?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 418170,
      "EditedText": "What difference do you think it makes in terms of people being hurt?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 418176,
      "EditedText": "That suggests that, from the police point of view, it is almost a relief if straightforward criminal activity has taken place, as it enables you to act without having to be concerned about other aspects. Does it put you in that position?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 418177,
      "EditedText": "Certainly it is easier for police officers to deal with a straightforward situation, but no one here needs to be reminded that such situations are seldom straightforward and there are always two sides to the story."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 418181,
      "EditedText": "There is an element of that. If the police cannot take effective action, they leave a victim in a potentially vulnerable position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 418182,
      "EditedText": "So the ideal solution is something clear cut—the police officers can look at a situation and know exactly what action they can take without any need to go into grey areas or to become lawyers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 418188,
      "EditedText": "On your first point, as I said in my introduction, we never see or hear of the vast majority of victims of domestic violence—nobody does. They just carry on: some live under a reign of terror for years and others raise their head above the parapet but are too frightened of the consequences to phone the police and apply the interdict.Disposal is a problem for us. Our experience shows that, if we arrest the offending partner and he gets three months imprisonment, he is not likely to come out any better—he may come out a lot worse. The fact that he has been imprisoned, perhaps following a trial in which the partner has given evidence, leads to further acrimony and is yet another problem that must be overcome. The whole family usually pays the fine, not the principal, because the money tends to be taken out of the family coffers.I am attracted to domestic violence probation projects, provided that they have teeth and are not seen as a soft option. I know of one good example of a domestic violence probation project operating in this city. Instead of fining the person or taking them out of circulation, an attempt is made to address what is going wrong and get to the root cause of the problem. In the long term, that is the only solution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 418190,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not think that we do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 418195,
      "EditedText": "That returns to the difficulty that we are dealing with what is essentially matrimonial homes legislation. Exclusion orders will centre on the home and its immediate environs but the perpetrator is likely to turn up elsewhere—at the workplace or outside a school, for example. That is a serious difficulty. Our association would welcome an extension in the scope of the legislation, so that it did not focus on matrimonial homes but became more protective. There are practical difficulties, such as with the lodging of interdicts—police officers would need to know that there was a power of arrest if they were called to a street incident. However, with current technology, that is not an insurmountable problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 418200,
      "EditedText": "I can see where you are coming from, but there would be immense difficulties. The great strength of the interdict with power of arrest is that, if police officers find the person referred to in the interdict where he is forbidden to be, the matter is unequivocal and clear cut. However, it would be difficult to uphold action on the basis of a phone call that may or may not have been made or on the basis of reasonable cause to believe that someone was going to come to a place. I have no doubt that that would be the subject of considerable legal challenge. I doubt the practicality of that, although I understand your concerns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 418201,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to separate cases of domestic violence from other cases in which there is a known danger to a person's life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 418204,
      "EditedText": "Can you give us an example of what you would like the order to say?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 418206,
      "EditedText": "Reasonable apprehension of violence is rather vague. Whose apprehension would have to be reasonable? Would it be that of the police, the individual who might be the victim of attack or someone else? The term could mean different things to different people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 418208,
      "EditedText": "That relates not to specific instances but to a more general position that leads to the granting of the interdict with the attached power of arrest. Breaches of the interdict are more specific and lead back to court. The granting of an interdict because there is a reasonable apprehension of violence in general terms does not deal with individual circumstances that arise when the interdict is breached. At that point, reasonable apprehension of violence becomes a much more difficult thing to work with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 418209,
      "EditedText": "I will clarify our position without straying into the complexities relating to the issue. We would like the prescriptive conditions that are attached to powers of arrest in the case of exclusion orders to be removed; we would like police officers to have more power to arrest in those cases than they have at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 418212,
      "EditedText": "Did you say that you could produce costs on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 418213,
      "EditedText": "I understand that there are costs. It would be for others to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 418214,
      "EditedText": "How about the volume of cases that you are called out to and the number of people who could not afford an interdict? I know that that is a difficult question to answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 418216,
      "EditedText": "We are concentrating on the availability of the interdict, but it seems that there is a large element of exclusion in this area. That is why I asked for an idea of the number of people who you feel might be excluded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 418217,
      "EditedText": "I would not be able to give specific figures on that. Many of our responses are to homes in which there is an element of financial difficulty; many more will not be eligible for legal aid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 418218,
      "EditedText": "There is another element to exclusion. Although we know that domestic violence goes across the social strata, we deal with many more cases in the housing schemes than in other areas. The disgrace element of that kind of crime is a great inhibitor to people reporting it. In many instances, we discover that domestic violence has been taking place only when we are called to a serious incident and we find that there is a long history of abuse, which the woman has not felt able to report because of a perception of social disgrace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 418229,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have exhausted questions for the moment. Thank you very much for your contributions. I dare say that representatives of the police will appear before the committee again in future.Because we are running on schedule, I intend to propose—if the two learned sheriffs do not mind—a brief break to allow members of the committee to make themselves more comfortable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 418230,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 418232,
      "EditedText": "We now move to evidence from Sheriff Wilkinson and Sheriff Allan, who are respectively the president and vice-president of the Sheriffs Association. I advise both of you that your presence at this committee has stirred up considerable interest. Many people were not even aware that the Sheriffs Association existed, so there has been some media interest.You might want to talk for a minute or two about generalities, or you might want us to proceed straight to questioning. I suspect that this will be something of a role reversal for you. Laughter. Perhaps you would like to start by expounding for a minute or two."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 418234,
      "EditedText": "Are you suggesting that, instead of using the matrimonial interdict as the basis for extending the power of arrest, we should attach power of arrest to the common law interdict?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 418238,
      "EditedText": "In other words, the issue of cohabitation, rather than being one for definition, should be one for discretion, in terms of the circumstances before sheriffs when they are dealing with a case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 418242,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with the idea that we can extend the whole business of interdicts—the extension of common law interdicts to include powers of arrest—and take it out of matrimonial, matrimonial homes and property legislation. Such an extension would have some effect, and I have suggested that we do it. However, when the committee started discussing the matter weeks ago, that was not, oddly enough, what we were really talking about. At a previous meeting, the witnesses from Scottish Women's Aid were interested in not simply protection against violence, but, as they said to us time and again, occupancy of the family home. \"The family home\" was the phrase that they used repeatedly. They felt it unfair that cohabitees who, for all practical purposes, are currently considered to be like husband and wife, could not get rights of occupancy or exclusion orders in relation to the family home. If we decided to tackle that issue—we were tackling it weeks ago—it would be more difficult, because it would lead us to definitions of cohabitee. Sheriff Wilkinson, you have suggested that all we need to do is to insert the phrase, \"as if they were man and wife\". How confident are you that that would work? As you and I know, many people in the criminal courts use the phrase \"common law\" in response to the question, \"Are you married?\" That is easy to deal with—it covers people who have lived together for 20 years and who, for various reasons, have not bothered going through a marriage ceremony. They live as if they were man and wife. However, Anne Smith pointed out that many people cohabit quite deliberately. If they were asked whether they were man and wife, they would say, \"No, we are not man and wife.\" They have chosen to cohabit and have deliberately not made the long-term commitment that they perceive marriage to represent. They have deliberately left their relationship open, with the get-out clause of not being man and wife. How would you deal with that? Would you say that people in such a relationship would lose that right? It is all very well to describe them as living together as man and wife, but do you not think that there are problems with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 418244,
      "EditedText": "Would you extend the law to cover single-sex couples who cohabit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Allan (Vice-President, Sheriffs Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 418258,
      "EditedText": "Christine Grahame touched on an important point. We tend to think of the power of arrest as the end of the story but it simply removes, or gives the power to remove, the person from the scene of the trouble. We need something to follow that up. The 1981 act was framed with the complicated structure of having a prosecution, if there was evidence of a criminal offence, or a holding for a period of two days until a breach of interdict could be organised if there was no such evidence. I know that there is a recommendation from the Law Commission that that should go, but I am not clear on what will replace it.I think that we are reaching for something like the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, so that a breach of the interdict would be a criminal offence. We could query whether that would need corroboration—probably it would. That would open up the range of disposals, which was raised with Sheriff Wilkinson, of which probation might be one. It is important that the committee keeps in mind what the penalty will be after the arrest takes place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Allan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 418260,
      "EditedText": "My information might be a little out of date. Previously, the matter was reported quickly to the procurator fiscal for a decision on whether to take proceedings, and arrangements were in place for the person's solicitor to be notified if there were not to be criminal proceedings. I gather that that resulted in a short time for the solicitor to try to initiate breach of interdict proceedings. I am not entirely up to date on whether that is still the way in which it is done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 418262,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer for procurators fiscal and I cannot comment on what particular sheriffs may or may not do. However, in my experience, interdicts are sought almost as a matter of course in cases in which there is any history of violence. Although I cannot say that they are granted as a matter of course, I am not aware of any reluctance on the part of sheriffs to grant them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 418264,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in your earlier response to Christine Grahame, in which you said that you had had no specific training in domestic violence issues. Can you give me an idea of the work load? What percentage of cases that come before sheriffs are domestic violence cases, or is that question too difficult?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 418268,
      "EditedText": "Given that you are suggesting that domestic abuse cases come before sheriffs at least daily, do you think that specialist training should be available to sheriffs? If they knew about domestic violence issues, perhaps they would have a more considered view on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 418276,
      "EditedText": "I have not discussed this, so I do not think that I can say that I have picked up anything. The act requires either an action for harassment to be raised or for there to be relevant criminal proceedings. The tests for making an order have been interpreted in a way that does, perhaps, give rise to some difficulty. I suppose that the problem arises from some reluctance—because of the act's novelty—to raise the relevant actions, or from difficulties in interpreting the act that were not foreseen when it was passed. I cannot speak to any detailed feedback on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 418278,
      "EditedText": "Do you have it in mind that there might be difficulties in having a power of arrest where there was no power to grant an exclusion order?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 418281,
      "EditedText": "Maureen spoke about a quagmire. You will forgive a simple mind who is not part of the legal profession.We have talked about the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 and the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981. We seem to be submerged in a range of acts which to some extent deal with the same problems, but perhaps the committee is going down a legislative line that will create another act.Having heard Anne Smith speak this morning, should we—in your opinion—err on the side of caution and not rush into another piece of legislation? Should we wait to try and straighten everything out at one fell swoop?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 418283,
      "EditedText": "Before hearing some of today's evidence, I was to some extent persuaded that that was a line that I would go down. One of the factors that coloured my judgment was that there appears to be a large proportion of victims of domestic violence who—because of the price—are excluded from going through the system to obtain interdicts. Surely that is important, and if the committee addresses only one element of the problem urgently, only half the problem will be solved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 418286,
      "EditedText": "There could be a common law interdict that excluded one party from a particular house as well as restraining that party from violence. That depends on the occupancy rights.There is a problem—and one cannot get away from this—if the person against whom the interdict is directed has the right of occupancy of the house."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 418292,
      "EditedText": "If you go down that road, you should consider what should be done about the 1981 act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 418295,
      "EditedText": "We might be reaching the private committee discussion stage, which is a slightly different part of the proceedings. I thank both sheriffs for coming along. I see that Anne Smith is still here. She is not scheduled to come back to speak to us; however, in view of everything that she has heard this morning, I ask her to return for five minutes to give her reaction to some of what has been discussed.I promise that this will be brief. I want to get a feel for some of the things that have been discussed, particularly the issue that Gordon has prompted us to explore to a greater extent than he might have expected—that is, to consider the matter from the perspective of a common law interdict with powers of arrest attached in certain circumstances. Would that go some way towards dealing with some of the concerns that you expressed earlier?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 418296,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would. It would be a simple, neat way of approaching the problem to look at it from the police's point of view. They want something that is clear to the ordinary policeman on the streets at 2 o'clock in the morning, and I think that that would help.One thing that concerns me slightly is whether common law interdict and matrimonial interdict are being confused. You might be using the term matrimonial interdict when you are talking about the special orders under the 1981 act. An exclusion order can be pronounced under that act. Automatically, an interdict and a power of arrest will follow an exclusion order, according to that legislation. That legislation also refers to any other matrimonial interdict, meaning a common law interdict. That is how it is interpreted in practice. In practice, we often talk of matrimonial interdicts when we are talking about common law interdicts as well.I encourage you to focus on examining the plain and simple common law interdict, to recognise that, at common law, the court does not have the power to put on a power of arrest—that must be done statutorily—and to consider how you can sharpen the teeth of the court, on the matter of the power of arrest, in the context of common law.Before I forget, I shall advise you on the protection from harassment orders that you mentioned. A problem has arisen regarding people's perception of the usefulness of such orders, as there are two conflicting decisions on whether an interim order can be pronounced under the legislation. Obviously, people are looking for a quick remedy; they need an interim order. One sheriff court decision says that there can be one; another interprets the act to mean that there cannot be one. I understand that that has put people off using such orders. You might want to consider the wording of the act and decide whether that issue can be resolved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 418298,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to gather information, as I do not understand all of this. If  two people are living in the same house as husband and wife, the wife can get an exclusion order and an interdict with a power of arrest. If two people are cohabiting, the woman cannot get an exclusion order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 418299,
      "EditedText": "Yes, she can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 418306,
      "EditedText": "Am I allowed to ask the sheriffs something? Do they find exclusion orders for cohabiting couples easy to deal with in practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 418309,
      "EditedText": "The statistics show that there are fairly few applications for exclusion orders. I cannot recall the number of applications that I have had from cohabitees rather than from spouses. I cannot make that comparison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 418144,
      "EditedText": "Can we work through all those points to deliver something? First, is it possible for us to introduce a piece of legislation that would dovetail into the existing Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981 that would extend the powers of arrest post-decree for married couples and give more extensive protection for cohabitees, but that is detached from occupancy rights?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 418148,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and as you and I both know, sheriff officers must be paid large amounts of money to serve such interdicts and powers of arrest immediately and to intimate that to the chief constable and the local police. That burden is carried by the solicitors. I am not making a special plea for them; that is a fact. The board must examine that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 418191,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to know about that project."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 418246,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to find my way through this, Sheriff Wilkinson. According to your suggestion, the procedures open to us would be to produce a bill that created a statutory offence of personal violence against an individual, which, if proven, would lead to an interdict with a power of arrest attached to it. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 418248,
      "EditedText": "That is what I am coming to. To develop my question further, if one takes decree and has perpetual interdict, what happens to the perpetual power of arrest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 418256,
      "EditedText": "I accept that it is not an alternative. Perhaps I put my question wrongly. Is there another middle route for dealing with breach of interdict? I suggested counselling as an alternative to going directly from liberty to arrest and incarceration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 418285,
      "EditedText": "Is not the solution to go along with Sheriff Wilkinson's first option—to attach the power of arrest to a common law interdict when there is personal violence? We could leave the 1981 act as it is, allowing cohabitees and spouses to apply to the courts for the two kinds of interdict that deal with the problems. We could also open that out to people who do not live in the same house.I am thinking about the problem that was raised by Maureen—an exclusion order could still be obtained if there were grounds for that, but in tandem with that would be a common law interdict with the power of arrest attached, for issues that might arise after an individual left the matrimonial home."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 418289,
      "EditedText": "Amending the 1981 act seems much more complex. I now tend to favour—God forbid—Gordon's proposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 418091,
      "EditedText": "I am moving backwards and forwards on this. I was a family practitioner for 12 years and took your view to start with: that it was better to deal with this matter comprehensively. I did so for a range of reasons, not the least of which was that it is good to have one piece of legislation rather than several bits of acts and amendments.However, the Family Law Association took the view that we could deal with the continuation of post-decree powers of arrest—I think I am correct in saying that—with a simple piece of legislation and then move on to deal with all the other matters, such as property. You are quite right to say that many problems happen post-decree, for example after the husband finds that the pension is in the pot, and he is being told this, that and the other by his pals.You disagree with that view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 418093,
      "EditedText": "What is the problem in this committee presenting a bill that simply deals with a matrimonial interdict with power of arrest continuing post-decree?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 418099,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Such interdicts could perhaps be continued on a cause-shown basis for a period, so that cohabitees had protection that was as close as possible to that for married women post-decree. It could be run from decree for—say—two years. It might be done for cohabitees from the separation date for a period. Those things could be defined, but the principle is that all the women who need protection get it. That could be dealt with now, or quickly, by legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 22 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 418063,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:39"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 418067,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda concerns two petitions that have been referred to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee by the Public Petitions Committee. Both petitions have been circulated to members. The first petition concerns the Tenancy of Shops (Scotland) Act 1949 and has been submitted by Maclay Murray and Spens, a Scottish law firm. I presume that committee members have at least read through the petition, even if they do not understand it all. Are there any particular comments about the petition and the way in which we should proceed? I have an opinion as to what to do with the petition, but I want to ensure that other views are heard as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 418072,
      "EditedText": "We will ensure that the committee sees the draft of the letter to the Minister for Justice.The second petition, petition 6, deals with the European convention on human rights. I have to say, at the outset, that I think that we should refer this back to the Public Petitions Committee and ask why it thought it was appropriate to send it to our committee. I think that it might be an inadmissible petition and I would like some guidance on that. I appreciate that that might put the Public Petitions Committee on the spot, and I also appreciate that there are members of this committee who are on that committee, but I am concerned about what we are being asked to do and whether it is admissible. Does anybody have a contrary view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 418073,
      "EditedText": "We can send it to the Public Petitions Committee for the same reason it sent it to us: that we think someone else should deal with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 418087,
      "EditedText": "I would be a little anxious about that. I foresee that we will make recommendations for legislation not just on the subject of interdicts, but on dealing with service provision, reviewable sentences and contact orders to children. All of the proposals would focus on the recognised problem of domestic violence, and I hope that that would form one cogent piece of legislation. I am concerned that, if the single issue of interdicts is plucked out, we could lose sight of the whole picture and domestic violence could appear to be less important than it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 418100,
      "EditedText": "Would it be a problem to incorporate a small piece of legislation like this into your package later on? I do not think that it would be difficult. This has to be done quickly because there are real problems for women."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 418103,
      "EditedText": "It would not cause a difficulty, but I would not like the committee to think that it is enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 418104,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that anybody here would begin to imagine that it was."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 418107,
      "EditedText": "Getting everything into one package, as you suggest, might be a reasonable way ahead, particularly given the fact that this committee and the Parliament have a heavy programme of work. If your committee did not intend to report back for 18 months, I would have expressed some concern, but six months does not seem too long to wait."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 418112,
      "EditedText": "Everything depends on the support that we get."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 418113,
      "EditedText": "I was going to make the same point. The partnership will present its report in March next year, after which there is likely to be a period of consultation by the Executive. It will, therefore, be some time before draft legislation comes before the Parliament. I think that both the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the Parliament have a responsibility to reflect women's long-standing concerns that the law is not protecting them. For that reason, we on this committee have a duty to take forward our bill so that legislation can be put in place as quickly as possible.I recognise that the bill is imperfect and that it does not cover the whole range of domestic violence issues, but it is more than we have at the moment. It may be two or three years before we get a bill that covers all aspects of domestic violence. Many women who are suffering now or who will suffer over that period would be grateful for the protection that a bill such as the one that we are proposing could offer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 418114,
      "EditedText": "Anne, I have some sympathy with what you have said about the need for an overhaul. However, I would like to hear your view on a number of issues.The Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981 deals largely with occupancy rights and includes provision for exclusion orders. In your view, is it possible to separate out occupancy rights from protection orders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 418115,
      "EditedText": "In some respects, that is what has happened in practice. In one area of the law it is recognised that a spouse has an occupancy right, irrespective of whether there is a violence problem. That has been respected every time that property has changed hands. However, whenever applications to the court have been made in respect of occupancy rights, it has been because there is a problem of physical or psychological abuse. It is, therefore, not appropriate to separate out the two issues. Clearly, in 1981 Parliament considered this and decided that the two could sensibly be combined in one piece of legislation. Oddly enough, however, the act ended up in the conveyancing section of the Parliament house book, because it was reckoned that it would be consulted most often by property lawyers who wanted to establish who had rights and interests in a particular property."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 418116,
      "EditedText": "The second issue that I wanted you to address is that of cohabitees. We are concerned to widen the scope of protection, but there are difficulties in doing that. Given what you have said about not being keen to separate occupancy rights from protection orders, is it possible to enshrine in legislation a protection for cohabitees? Would we have to redefine what is meant by a cohabitee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 418118,
      "EditedText": "Such cases would come into the category that concerns us. Do you think that we do not need to redefine cohabitation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 418120,
      "EditedText": "With respect, I do not think that any of us are missing the point. I simply want a straight answer. Are you saying that we do not have to redefine cohabitation in order to protect such women?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 418121,
      "EditedText": "We do not want you to do that. We want you to focus on women in need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 418127,
      "EditedText": "Do not misunderstand me. The partnership is delighted to see women at risk being helped, but I am anxious to caution people not to forgot that there is a lot more to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 418128,
      "EditedText": "When it gave us evidence, Scottish Women's Aid suggested that the way forward might be to remove the protection from abuse element from the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981. As you say, the act ends up in the conveyancing books, rather than in the protection from abuse books. Scottish Women's Aid suggested that certain sections of the act could be repealed and replaced with a stand-alone piece of legislation, perhaps called the protection from abuse legislation, which would deal with the protection aspect. Could that be a way forward, as far as you are concerned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 418129,
      "EditedText": "I would much rather see it flagged up as dealing with the protection issue than enshrined in a piece of what is effectively conveyancing legislation. That is unfair, because it does more than that, but it is viewed as an important piece of conveyancing legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 418130,
      "EditedText": "We started this discussion weeks ago—and maybe I am not following it—but I thought that we were looking at it in the context of occupancy rights. We began to think that it is not only married women who should be able to exclude their partner from the home and have an interdict against violence; we got the clear message that that should be extended to people who cohabit. In general terms, I think that we were sympathetic to that, but it gave us the problem of defining a cohabitee, which, as you say, is something of a nightmare. We were trying to tackle the issue of how to define a person who could exclude someone from their own property.Because it is your remit, what you are doing to some extent is refocusing the issue on domestic violence and saying that we should forget about—in inverted commas—occupancy rights and simply look at women, as cohabitees, wives or girlfriends, who need protection. You are saying, \"Let us stop the violence\", and in that situation we can forget about definitions of cohabitees. However, one problem with that is that a few weeks ago we were talking about something different. That brings me back to the question, why do we need a change in the law so much? If occupancy rights and excluding someone were needed—and that should be extended to cohabitees—we have to deal with legal definitions. If all we are doing—I do not mean that pejoratively—is protecting someone from violence, why, in Anne's view, does the existing law not do that throught interdict and through the police and other authorities? I understand the power of arrest, but in my experience, a nutter is not deterred by anything. A man who is determined to get to someone will do so, whether or not there is a power of arrest. What is done with him thereafter, in terms of locking him up, is a different matter. I do not believe that a determined man will be deterred by a piece of paper. Why does changing the law on that help us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 418133,
      "EditedText": "That is what the 1981 act does. It tells the court that if it is granting an exclusion order it shall attach a power of arrest. However, even in a non-exclusion order case, the court has a separate capacity to attach a power of arrest. Indeed, it must do so, unless it is satisfied that that is not necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 418135,
      "EditedText": "That is what the 1981 act does, but the problem is that it is limited to wives and to cohabitees for six months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 418138,
      "EditedText": "In among those helpful statistics from the Scottish Legal Aid Board, do you have one that tells us how many women who go to it for applications for legal aid end up not being able to take it up because they cannot afford to progress the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 418141,
      "EditedText": "That is interesting, as it would be the statistic for applications, not for grants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 418142,
      "EditedText": "That is precisely why I ask the question. All  the anecdotal evidence suggests that one of the reasons for the tail-off may be the fact that when people are hit with the bill, they decide not to take the case any further. That is beginning to happen with civil legal aid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 418145,
      "EditedText": "I do not see why not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 418151,
      "EditedText": "Yes. However, rather than the order saying in general that the man must not go anywhere the woman is, such legislation would specify certain areas where he could not go. Otherwise, he could turn up at the workplace and say that he was there not to see the particular woman, but to see a friend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 418153,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I would be delighted for that to happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 418172,
      "EditedText": "Would you like to come back in on that, chief superintendent?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 418173,
      "EditedText": "What reinforced the point to me was that some of our research indicated that 73 per cent of incidents that were reported involved an element of violence. That figure is very high. I endorse what Tom Wood says: the problems facing operational officers at one or two o'clock in the morning are complex. Anything that simplifies that situation can only benefit all the parties concerned.I was conscious that some of the discussion this morning switched between criminal and civil law. One of the difficulties is that the legislation at the moment is civil legislation. Unless there is a power of arrest attached to an interdict, and unless the commission of another crime is corroborated, police cannot effect appropriate action—they can only go to the house.It is frustrating for police officers to have to walk away and it can put victims in a dangerous situation. The majority of experienced police officers will attempt to remedy the situation by separating the parties. They will do something other than just walking away, but there is a weakness that exposes people to violence.As to the statistics, there is no doubt that more people are reporting incidents. That may be a reflection of the greater confidence that some have in the police. Police forces are also more geared up to respond to recommendations coming from the inspectorate and the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 418174,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that the law, civil or criminal, as is stands is sufficient to protect women?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 418178,
      "EditedText": "Mr Davidson, could you confirm that you said that, in the 73 per cent of reported cases where there has been an incident, the police attending could put women at even more risk? I am referring to occasions when there is not a clear-cut case in which the officer can apprehend someone and remove the risk of danger. Scottish Women's Aid gave us the number of people who are killed by their husbands or partners. Does the difficulty over whether you can remove the partner inflame the situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 418184,
      "EditedText": "Before we go too far down the road of looking at the common law and other criminal activity, we should remember that there has to be corroboration for a police officer to take action and arrest someone. The advantage of an interdict with powers of arrest is that it is clear cut and there is less room for the fudges that can take place and leave women vulnerable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 418192,
      "EditedText": "I will provide you with background data on the domestic violence probation project operating in Edinburgh. I suspect that there are more, but I know of the efficacy of the one operating here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 418194,
      "EditedText": "I welcome your comments to Christine about police attitudes and responses. I worked with Women's Aid for about 20 years and I know the big change that there has been in the force. In the past, it was sometimes thought that the police did not respond quickly and did not view certain forms of breach of interdict as serious. I believe that that has now changed, which I welcome. Anne Smith talked about the idea of naming specific places with the power of arrest. Would you find that helpful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 418196,
      "EditedText": "Do you favour the idea, which we have discussed, of protection being covered by separate legislation, with named places, rather than being attached to the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981? Would that be more helpful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 418197,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful, although using named places could throw up other problems—if the individual does not turn up at the named place, there could still be a problem somewhere else. There may need to be a more open approach to protection."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 418198,
      "EditedText": "The more prescriptive we are about exact places, the more room there will be for error. It is far better to be more general."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 418203,
      "EditedText": "In practical local situations, if a person, who officers know may be particularly vulnerable, makes a phone call seeking assistance in anticipation of something happening, officers will try to be there in advance of the problem. From our perspective as operational commanders, it is important to ensure that there are good intelligence systems within policing areas to enable us to identify such cases.On whether orders should be general or specific, it would be helpful if the power of arrest was put in more general terms. Police would be able to act before the individual came within 50 yards of the matrimonial home, or whatever limit was prescribed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 418205,
      "EditedText": "I am very conscious about straying into the technical difficulties of family law but I think that it would be useful if a general power of arrest could be issued if a sheriff was convinced that there was reasonable apprehension of violence. That would enable the police to act without the individual being in breach of the prescription. I understand that there are difficulties with the suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 418207,
      "EditedText": "It would not be up to the police to decide. Currently, the applicant has to present evidence to a solicitor to obtain an interdict. The decision is based on the evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 418210,
      "EditedText": "The paper that you presented points out that domestic violence does not discriminate between social backgrounds. That is true, but the fact is that interdicts do. It can cost a lot to apply for an interdict. The paper says that you would like access to interdicts to be made easier. Would you like the cost of obtaining an interdict reduced for those who do not have access to legal aid?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 418215,
      "EditedText": "It would be difficult to give a specific figure. If an individual is not eligible for legal aid, costs will be incurred, which will deter many people from seeking an interdict."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 418220,
      "EditedText": "I want to respond to that with my whole-hearted agreement. The avoidance of complexity is important. Perhaps my earlier point about reasonable apprehension of violence was misleading. We are looking for clarity in the power of arrest. We are extremely aware of the human rights implications and there are always at least two sides to the story. However, put simply, by whatever means the power of arrest is granted—be it through the civil courts or any other way—we would rather that that was more general than tied to an exclusion order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C418222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 418222,
      "EditedText": "The submission from the general secretary of the Scottish Police Federation says that on-the-job or refresher training is virtually non-existent for serving officers. It strikes me that training for officers who will confront domestic violence is extremely important. If the law is changed, will training be made available? It is a sensitive and difficult area and the submission from the Scottish Police Federation seems to suggest that, if resources are not made available for training, a change in the law will not achieve the desired aim, because officers will not know what they ought to be doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 418224,
      "EditedText": "You said in your submission—I will ask the sheriffs to speak for themselves later: \"Procurators Fiscal are too timid in instigating prosecutions, and Sheriffs are too reluctant to issue interdicts or apply punitive sentences.\"Can you expand on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 418227,
      "EditedText": "That would be difficult, because there is nobody from the Police Federation here today. Our witnesses might want to make a general comment, but they cannot speak to a submission that they have not made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 418228,
      "EditedText": "There is general frustration among police officers when cases that seem clear cut to them turn out differently in court. However, I have no specific information from my force about dissatisfaction with the prosecution service or the sheriffs—the sheriffs are sitting behind me, so I need to be careful about what I say. Like policemen, they have to deal with subtle shades of grey at 2 o'clock in the morning. On the evidence that is presented to them, they have to make a decision that is fair to everyone.There will always be frustration among working policemen about how cases turn out in court and there will always be cases that are misunderstood, but as far as I can tell, there is no general dissatisfaction. If we think that a case has turned out badly, we make representations, through organised forums, to the procurators fiscal, who are our prosecution service, and tell them that we are not happy with what has happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 418231,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson (President, Sheriffs Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 418233,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to say a little by way of introduction. We were happy to accept the invitation to give evidence to the committee. Domestic violence and all the miseries associated with it are matters that come to the attention of sheriffs practically every day of their working lives and we are concerned to assist in finding solutions to the problem.As you said, some people might not know that the Sheriffs Association exists, so I shall say something about the association and what it seeks to do. Our membership consists of practically all sheriffs in Scotland and we represent Scottish sheriffs on issues of common concern to the judiciary of the sheriff courts and on matters that affect the work of those courts and the system of criminal and civil justice. There is, of course, a variety of views among sheriffs, and the association does not claim to speak for every sheriff. The views that we put forward are those of the council of the association and are formed after taking account, as far as possible, of the views of our members.Nor can we answer for sheriffs in their judicial conduct or decisions. Sheriffs are independent judges who take independent decisions over which we have no control and for which we have no responsibility.We represent only sheriffs who hold permanent positions—temporary sheriffs have a separate organisation. As the committee may know, a substantial volume of work in the sheriff courts is done by temporary sheriffs. At least, that is the position at present; whether it will continue to be so is an open question.As I said, domestic violence is a matter of concern for every sheriff. I think that I am speaking on behalf of all sheriffs when I say that we are concerned to seek solutions to that problem, as far as is possible. We are represented on the Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence. In response to the consultation paper on improving Scottish family law, we dealt with the matter with which the committee is primarily concerned—the extension of the scope of the present matrimonial interdict. We indicated that we favoured an extension of that interdict to protect former spouses and present and former cohabitants. In our experience in both civil and criminal courts, those are the people who are most in need of protection and for whom no protection, or inadequate protection, is at present afforded. We are conscious of the need that gave rise to the move to extend the matrimonial interdict. Beyond expressing our support, there might be a question of what we can usefully and helpfully say. We have not, even as a council of the association, had an opportunity to consider the matter, except in the fairly limited context of our response to the consultation paper. However, one matter has emerged on which I can say a little—the definition of cohabitation. When we responded to the paper, we assumed that, in due course, we would see draft legislation and would be able to comment—adversely or favourably, but constructively—on any definition in that legislation. Of course, things have not worked out like that.However, we did not consider the definition of cohabitation to be a major problem in extending the scope of the interdict. There is a distinction to be drawn between the problems of defining cohabitation for such an extension and the problems of defining cohabitation for the purposes of property rights and financial provision, which was another matter with which the Law Commission had dealt and which was raised in the consultation paper. We were not supportive of the Law Commission's proposals in that area. One reason for that—among others—was that we saw difficulties in defining cohabitation for those purposes. In the context of domestic violence, however, the problem of definition is less. When we consider domestic violence, the emphasis is on the protection of the vulnerable. Any qualification—other than vulnerability or risk of harm—for the protection afforded by an interdict with the power of arrest attached should, we would suggest, have a low threshold. In other words, the test should be easy to pass. Attention ought to be concentrated on the need to protect the vulnerable person from future harm, rather than on any other qualification that one might seek to impose. The purpose of an interdict is to provide a remedy against the commission of a threatened wrong. Although the council of the association has not had an opportunity to consider the idea, we should start with the position taken by the Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence, which is: why worry about a test of cohabitation or marriage at all?We need to consider whether the power of arrest should be attached to an interdict when anyone can show that he or she is at risk of personal violence at the hands of a particular person or persons. We should not trouble at all with cohabitation or marriage restrictions in that context. That would incidentally have the advantage of making such a remedy available to the neglected category of parents and grandparents who sometimes have difficulties in the same area. I am not saying that such cases are frequent, but, from time to time, parents and grandparents have been terrorised by their grown-up children and grandchildren. Again, the mother or grandmother, a woman, is usually the victim of such conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 418235,
      "EditedText": "That is what it comes down to. I think that the issue has already been discussed this morning. As you say, convener, a way of tackling the problem is to have a common law interdict to which the power of arrest could be attached, where the interdict was directed against personal violence. I do not think that anyone would want the power of arrest for such matters as breach of contract."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 418239,
      "EditedText": "This may just be a legal quibble, but I am a little hesitant about speaking of sheriffs having discretion in that respect; I would favour a wide definition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 418241,
      "EditedText": "We have always favoured the education and training of sheriffs. The association was instrumental in setting up the judicial studies committee, which seeks to pursue that matter. I cannot recall training specifically on domestic violence, but a good deal of training on family law matters has been made available to and taken advantage of by sheriffs. It has perhaps focused more on children than on domestic violence, but efforts have been made to provide considerable training in family law in general."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 418243,
      "EditedText": "I recognise the difficulty. The phrase is from section 18 of the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981, which applies to a man and woman who are living with each other as if they were man and wife. It does not require that they regard themselves as husband and wife—merely that they are living together as if they were man and wife. My understanding—I might be wrong about this—is that the difficulty in affording occupancy rights to cohabiting couples has not arisen from that wording, or from the provisions of section 18 as such. The difficulty has arisen from provisions elsewhere in the act—from the various tests that are laid down for the granting of an exclusion order. I might be wrong, but I am not aware of difficulty in the operation of that provision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 418253,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I mentioned that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 418255,
      "EditedText": "I do not see probation as an alternative to arrest, but there might be a case for probation as a disposal that was available in the event of a breach of interdict."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 418259,
      "EditedText": "I am not entirely clear on this point—could you tell me what happens to someone once they are arrested? In the real world, after a police officer arrests someone, what happens to that person in the following few days and weeks?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 418263,
      "EditedText": "That would tend to be my experience of the courts, and I find it interesting that police officers have decided to comment on the matter in such terms. I thought that it would be useful to have clarification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 418267,
      "EditedText": "Certainly, and sadly, it is an everyday occurrence. In the civil and criminal courts, we see a considerable number of cases of domestic violence, but perhaps particularly in the criminal courts. Applications for interdicts in respect of domestic violence are common in the civil courts, too. It is a common experience."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 418270,
      "EditedText": "We know that women in Scotland do not feel protected at the moment. Comments from the Police Federation about sheriffs and procurators fiscal support that view. The fact is that there are women in Scotland who feel unsafe. With respect, Sheriff Wilkinson, we all need to know more, and that includes sheriffs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 418271,
      "EditedText": "I think that that was a statement rather than a question."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418273",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 418273,
      "EditedText": "To return to what you were saying a minute ago about the frequency of cases—what are you beginning to see under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997? Is that beginning to register on the radar?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 418275,
      "EditedText": "Is there any indication of what the problems with the act might be? I appreciate that you are speaking without the advantage of detailed information, but have you picked up any indication of what the problems are?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 418279,
      "EditedText": "If the exclusion order was attached to the 1981 act, there could be a power of arrest through that, but the protective element is separate and is easier if one is a cohabitee, say, because the definition of cohabitee is looser. We might find that a cohabitee can get an interdict with powers of arrest, but cannot get the man out of the house."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418280",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 418280,
      "EditedText": "I can see that there might be a certain misfit when it is possible to get a power of arrest but not an exclusion order. Even under existing law, in relation to spouses, there can be cases in which an interdict with a power of arrest is thought to be useful but an exclusion order is not granted, or not applied for. The number of applications for exclusion orders is remarkably low. It would appear that interdict with power of arrest can coexist with non-use of exclusion orders. I take your point. I can imagine some cases in which that would be awkward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418284",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is a matter of policy for the committee."
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    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418290",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 418290,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a proposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ID": 1863,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 418297,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Does anyone have any brief questions for Anne Smith? I wanted her to have the opportunity to respond to some of this morning's discussion."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 418300,
      "EditedText": "She can get an exclusion order?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C418301",
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 418301,
      "EditedText": "In some cases, under section 18 of the act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 418302,
      "EditedText": "Then why has it been presented to us as a problem that people cannot get exclusion orders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418307",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 418307,
      "EditedText": "I have never done so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 418308,
      "EditedText": "You have never had to deal with that situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 418310,
      "EditedText": "In fairness, I think that there might be some conflicting evidence of the practice as far as cohabitees are concerned.Thank you. That concludes the committee's proceedings. I thank Anne Smith for returning to the debate for a few minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 418312,
      "EditedText": "That concludes the committee's public business. I remind committee members that we will now have a brief private discussion, which will last no longer than half an hour."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418313",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11189,
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      "ContributionID": 418313,
      "EditedText": "The meeting continued in private."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 22 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 418066,
      "EditedText": "We will schedule that part of the meeting for 12 pm. I hope that we will have got through the remainder of the business in sufficient time to allow us 30 minutes for that discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 418068,
      "EditedText": "The proposed bill has many implications for small businesses. I am rather concerned about its contents, which seem to be weighted towards the owner of the property and would remove some protection from a small business, which might be a long-term lessee. I can see some advantages to the bill, for example when we consider building renovation and improvement and the requirement to terminate leases in order to improve an overall business aspect of a property, but the interests of the lessee should also be examined. If we take the matter forward, we should perhaps talk to the Federation of Small Businesses and some retailer associations, as well as groups representing landlords."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418070",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 418070,
      "EditedText": "I do not have any problem with doing that. My difficulty with the petition is that it comes from people with a particular bundle of clients, with a particular commercial interest—I mean them no disrespect. Like Phil, I am afraid that the petition represents one side of the story. I do not have enough expertise to know the other side of the story.I am happy to do as Phil suggests and to take information from the other side of the story, as it were. I am also happy to do as the convener suggests and to consult the Executive on its views. I am not willing to do anything until I feel that I know what is going on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 418078,
      "EditedText": "Phil is referring to a discussion in which I said that we need to be careful that we do not end up in a situation where people petition this committee on the outcome of court decisions. That is not the job of this committee and I would be concerned if it were seen to be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 418080,
      "EditedText": "That is as may be, but we must still deal with petition 6. I have suggested that we return it to the Public Petitions Committee for a clearer explanation.Is everybody agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 11188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 11188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 418081,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 418084,
      "EditedText": "I see from the information that you have given us that you are considering whether policy and/or legislative changes are required. Are you looking specifically at the issue that has been raised in this committee: the scope and extent of matrimonial interdicts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 418085,
      "EditedText": "That matter has been raised with us. There is concern because protection stops on divorce. That does not make sense. If a woman needed protection from a man who was liable to abuse her before the decree of divorce was issued, she is liable to need it even more when the decree is issued. In many cases, men are disgruntled at the outcome of a divorce. For example, a property transfer order in favour of the wife can be the ideal fuel for an incident on the doorstep.We are concerned that cohabitees—or even women who could not qualify as cohabitees but have had a relationship with a man who is liable to harm them—do not have long-term protection. That matter has been raised with the partnership, but we have not, as yet, come to a firm conclusion about the best way of dealing with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 418089,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that, but it is not as if the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981 gives no protection to anybody other than wives. It does. Section 18 gives quite extensive protection to cohabitees. The downside for cohabitees is that their protection is limited in time; they get an initial six-month period and can apply for an extension after that. That is not as good as the protection that a spouse can get, but, even in the case of a spouse, there is a cut-off on divorce, which is a matter for concern.From our point of view, however, we can probably live with that for the sake of producing a single cogent proposal to cover all aspects of the problem. It would fit with the way we were asked to examine the problem, and it seems to be working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 418090,
      "EditedText": "The problem might be that it is not us who have to live with it. That is what is causing concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 418092,
      "EditedText": "At common law, there is no problem in pronouncing an interdict to protect somebody who can satisfy the court that they are at risk; there does not have to be a cut-off at decree of divorce, although the person cannot get the power of arrest attached to the interdict. I appreciate that that has concerned people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 418094,
      "EditedText": "That is not a problem, but the ideal would be to have everything in one piece of legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 418096,
      "EditedText": "The only women you will help will be married women—I do not underestimate the value of that, but there is a wider problem of all women who are subject to domestic abuse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 418098,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean continuing interdicts with powers of arrest after the two six-month periods?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 418105,
      "EditedText": "Could Mrs Smith give us an indication of when her committee will report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 418106,
      "EditedText": "Realistically, I would not expect the committee to report back until next March."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 418117,
      "EditedText": "Yes, if that was how you planned to proceed. Defining cohabitation will be a nightmare. The 1981 act defined cohabitees as people who are cohabiting as man and wife, but many cohabitees in 1999 would say that that is exactly what they are not, because they have specifically opted out of the obligations and rights that arise from marriage.However, there is no reason for a woman in such a relationship not to have protection. That is why I was encouraging the committee to go right back to basics and think about what it is trying to do—to protect women who are being subjected to abuse. Women should not need to qualify as wives or cohabitees if they qualify as women at risk. Take the case of a woman who moves in with a man after having a relationship with him for a couple of years without sharing a house. Three weeks later, the violence starts. Would you be satisfied that she is a cohabitee? Some people would say that three weeks is not long enough to establish that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 418122,
      "EditedText": "We are considering whether single-sex couples require protection. Are you aware of Professor Norrie's submission to the Law Society in response to the consultation paper \"Improving Scottish Family Law\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 418124,
      "EditedText": "In his submission, Professor Norrie suggests a helpful way around the question of cohabitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C418126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 418126,
      "EditedText": "Apart from the opinion that you have expressed, is there any strong reason not to deal with this piece of legislation? Given that the Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence reports to the Parliament, the legislation will come to this committee and I imagine that it will go to the Equal Opportunities Committee. The Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee will probably look at the social inclusion and housing elements of the report. The Executive will want to scrutinise it and then it will go to the Parliament.Given that it could take a year or more for anything helpful to happen, would it not be useful for the committee to deal with this little piece of legislation now? As an interim measure, could we introduce a bill to amend the legislation slightly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 418132,
      "EditedText": "Could you deal with it by adding power of arrest to interdicts of a certain kind in a more general sense?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 418136,
      "EditedText": "Could you widen power of arrest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 418143,
      "EditedText": "In fairness, we have not been told that, but from my experience as a lawyer I do not doubt for a moment that that happens."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 418147,
      "EditedText": "I wholeheartedly agree with your views on the Scottish Legal Aid Board. An interdict application is a short, sharp piece of work. It is not the most expensive thing that the Scottish Legal Aid Board has to deal with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 418155,
      "EditedText": "The power is there, but it is limited to specific people. I would like it broadened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 418156,
      "EditedText": "Would that be easy to do, though?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 418159,
      "EditedText": "The common law interdict does not grant the power of arrest and cannot be amended to make it do so. We would have to work within the statutory framework."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Stewart Davidson (President, Association of Scottish Police Superintendents): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 418162,
      "EditedText": "I thank the committee for the opportunity to give evidence. I am aware that you are taking evidence from experts in family law. We can contribute information about the experience of police officers and the difficulties that they face in trying to satisfy the needs of those at risk from domestic abuse and violence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 418163,
      "EditedText": "Are there any questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Tom Wood (Association of Chief Police Officers): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 418165,
      "EditedText": "I can respond to that. Domestic violence is one of the most ingrained and under-reported types of crime in Scotland. None of the figures that we produce do more than indicate an index of activity by the police. The figures should not, in my view, be read as an indicator of the number of actual cases. That is a huge, dark figure. Those crimes are hugely under-reported. It would be difficult to plumb the depths to find out to what extent domestic violence, both physical and emotional, occurs in this country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 418167,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the situation is getting worse, but we are finding more cases. The figures can, as I said, be seen as an index of the activity of the police service in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 418169,
      "EditedText": "I will answer first and then I think that the representative of the superintendents association would like to comment. The simpler things are, the better they are. The more clear-cut the powers of arrest are, the better that is for police officers on the street.It is not often appreciated how difficult and complex such cases are to deal with. They are almost never black-and-white cases. They are subtle shades of grey and often lack any element of independent evidence. The more clear-cut the interdict is, and the more clear-cut the powers of arrest are, the better it is for an operational policeman who is called out at two o'clock in the morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 418171,
      "EditedText": "It does make a difference. We have already heard somebody mention that there are desperadoes who will pay attention to nothing. Those people exist, but they are a small minority. The power of arrest prevents many men from conducting themselves violently towards wives and partners. I think it works."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 418175,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty is that the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981, which is the main legislation under review, does not take into account the complexities of modern relationships. There are exclusions that make for difficulties. A power of arrest, if it is available, is effective—it allows a police officer to apprehend someone—but, where there is no power of arrest, the act is very limited unless other crimes have been committed. Our view is that, because the act relates to civil law and because it focuses on matrimonial situations, the limitations impede effective police action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 418179,
      "EditedText": "To clarify the statistical reference, I remind the committee that, of the number of incidents that were reported to the police, 73 per cent had an element of violence. Of that percentage, a significant proportion would be dealt with by the police, so I was not saying that the police could take no official action in 73 per cent of incidents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 418180,
      "EditedText": "In those cases where no official action could be taken, were some of the women put at even more risk following the intervention?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 418183,
      "EditedText": "That would be an ideal situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 418186,
      "EditedText": "On the information about the existence of an interdict, local officers should know and should be informed. Most police forces are now highly computerised and would have a marker against a particular address to show that an interdict existed. There is always room for administrative error, no matter what system is operated—that seems to be what happened in the case that you described.Most forces—although this depends on their size; we rightly have different approaches—now have domestic violence liaison officers whose task is to ensure that all operational police officers perform to a high professional standard in this field. The reason why the Scottish police service is in that position today is because of some notorious cases in the late 1970s and 1980s in which we performed badly. We are determined to improve our performance.On response times, we often find that people who want police assistance but do not want to raise much attention do not use the 999 system. We are constantly preaching to people such as you describe that the best way of getting a quick police response is through the 999 system. All police forces have performance targets and figures for ordinary calls, in both urban and suburban environments. Even for ordinary calls, the response time is less than 10 minutes; that target is met by forces on more than 90 per cent of occasions although, again, if it is midnight in a busy part of town in a busy force area, the resources are liable to be stretched. However, I can assure you that a call about domestic violence—especially when an interdict is in place—is treated with priority.In apprehending the offenders, we have a difficulty when some people play the interdict card selectively. In other words, perhaps with regard to access to children, one day someone will welcome or put up with the visit of a partner or husband, but the next day they will not. Sometimes it is difficult because the police are called only to be told that an hour and a half ago so and so came to the house. I do not know the circumstances of the situation that you described—perhaps you could elaborate—but sometimes things are not clear cut. If the police are called to a house where the person who is the subject of an interdict is present and there is a power of arrest, there should be absolutely no question that that person should be arrested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 418199,
      "EditedText": "I know that you are keen to have law that is clear and can be operated—that is entirely understandable.I want to go through in a bit more detail some of the points that Maureen Macmillan and others have made about how the scope of the interdict could be widened. I am particularly concerned about the cases that Women's Aid told us about, in which there has been a long history of domestic violence and there is danger to the woman's life. You talked about response times. How far can we widen the scope of an interdict so that we can act before a violent partner gets to the home or place of work? There have been discussions in the court about how wide an interdict should be, such as whether a phone call saying that a partner was coming would be included—it was thought that it probably would not be at the moment. Is there any way of widening the scope to include, for example, having reasonable cause to believe that an incident was going to occur? What can we do about that if we legislate on interdicts with the power of arrest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 418202,
      "EditedText": "I cannot see a practical way around the difficulties. Clearly there are priority cases. There are cases in which we have, as it were, a red circle around an address. It is quite common for us to install an alarm system in the home of a victim or potential victim, which, on the press of a button, instantly alerts police radios. I do not want to give too much detail on that, but we regularly use such systems and methods for rapid intervention in high-priority cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Chief Superintendent Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 418211,
      "EditedText": "We have made that point. The cost of obtaining an interdict makes it an unavailable option for many people. People have produced costs on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Deputy Chief Constable Wood: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 418223,
      "EditedText": "Can I address that? I was not aware that the federation had made a general statement, but I can speak with intimate knowledge of my force. In each of our areas, an officer is tasked specifically with ensuring that operational officers are up to speed on the law. As it happens, I have with me our most recent fact sheet on domestic violence for the guidance of our officers. We also provide detailed information on our in-force intranet. We must keep on pushing home the message, but we are aware that we are only as strong as our weakest link and that we have to keep drumming home the message to all ranks. That is why we have this system. I know that all Scottish police forces have put in place systems that they find compatible with their uses and needs. I have no reason to believe that they are any less efficient than we are.New legislation would require a new form of training. That brings us back to simplicity. I agree with one of the earlier speakers, who said that we should keep things dead simple, so that everyone knows exactly where a person should be and at what time, and whether they are liable to arrest. It should be simple not only for the person to whom the interdict applies or for the victim, but for the police officer. The committee would find it hard to believe how many shades of grey police officers confront on the street."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 418225,
      "EditedText": "Could you clarify which submission you are referring to, Trish?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 418226,
      "EditedText": "The Police Federation submission."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 418236,
      "EditedText": "Do not suggest that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 418237,
      "EditedText": "Where the interdict is directed against personal violence, the court should be able to attach a power of arrest similar to the power of arrest for matrimonial interdicts. That should be our starting point.Although I see no objection in principle to that proposal, there might be practical objections. As the police might have practical problems with such measures, we would need to hear their views. We are certainly taking the discussion beyond what was considered before today's meeting, although I realise that the matter has already been raised today.If that proposal is thought to go too far, there are other ways in which the matter could be approached. We could address the question of definition. On cohabitation, the question is whether a man and a woman are living with each other as if they were man and wife. That could be determined with regard to all the circumstances of the case, using the present test of section 18 of the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981, but without referring to the time for which they have been living together, or to whether there are children of the relationship. I do not think that the courts would find that approach too difficult to handle, if it was thought necessary to retain a cohabitation test. If that solution were thought to contain difficulties, an alternative would be to have a rule whereby an applicant claiming to be a cohabitant was presumed to be such—to fall in that category—unless the contrary was shown, again with regard to all the circumstances of the case. That would shift the onus of proof."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 418240,
      "EditedText": "As the convener has identified, your presence today has created something of a stir, Sheriff Wilkinson. One question that has been raised several times in evidence that we have had from other witnesses is, \"How much training do you get in domestic violence?\" There is a thought abroad that sheriffs are perhaps not living in the same world as those who are experiencing domestic violence. Could you comment on that and dispel any misperceptions in that regard?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 418245,
      "EditedText": "I noticed that that was mentioned in the committee's previous discussion, but we have not considered that issue. If one enlarged the common law interdicts to provide a power of arrest, there would seem to be no reason why single-sex couples could not be brought within the scope of the law. Single-sex couples could not readily be brought within my suggested—and it was merely a suggestion—definition of cohabitation. If there were a desire to extend protection to single-sex couples, further thought would have to be given to the definition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 418247,
      "EditedText": "My first suggestion would require a bill that amended the law of interdict generally, rather than the 1981 act, although I think that it would have certain consequences for that act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 418249,
      "EditedText": "That raises the question of the duration of interdict, on which I have not yet touched—the question has not yet been asked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 418251,
      "EditedText": "It is true that matrimonial interdicts are limited in time under the present law. Common law interdicts, once they become perpetual, are not limited in time—that matter might have to be addressed. In fact, it would have to be addressed if amending legislation was to have the effect that I canvassed. There would have to be a provision as to the length of time that a power of arrest should last—either it could be a fixed time, or the court could be given power to fix the time within certain limits. A limit would be desirable; one does not want a power of arrest to exist in perpetuity unless it can be shown that there is a need for that. A requirement for a power of arrest without a limit would cause difficulties in administration and might reduce the effectiveness of the power."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 418257,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that a great deal of thought has been given to penalties for breach of interdict. One can imprison, fine, admonish and so on, but the matter has not received a great deal of consideration by the legislature or indeed, as far as I am aware, by the Government so far. Perhaps the availability of probation in such cases could be considered. However, it would be necessary to consult on that. For example, one would need to know how social work departments would react to the proposal. We have a great deal of trouble as it is with the enforcement of probation orders and community service orders, because of apparent staff shortages in social work departments. One does not want to add to those problems, and that possibility would have to be taken into account. Perhaps Sheriff Allan has a view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C418261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 418261,
      "EditedText": "On a more general point, mention has been made of the fact that we received information from the Police Federation. It stated:\"Police officers who work in specialist units dealing with domestic violence complain that Procurators Fiscal are too timid in instigating prosecutions, and Sheriffs are too reluctant to issue interdicts or apply punitive sentences.\"Would you be prepared to comment on that and, if the scope of the interdicts were broadened, would that cause further difficulties for yourselves?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 418265,
      "EditedText": "I do not have any statistics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 418266,
      "EditedText": "Do you have a rough guess?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 418269,
      "EditedText": "My answer might show my need of training, but I am not sure what we need to know. We know that it happens, we know that it is bad—if I may put it that way—and we know what the remedies are under the existing laws. I am not quite sure what more we need to know. Perhaps we do need to know more, but that is my response at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 418272,
      "EditedText": "I do not know that I can add to what I have already said about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 418274,
      "EditedText": "I have no statistics, but my impression is that fairly little use is made of the act at present. I have not had a single case. Sheriff Allan tells me that he has had one. I would have thought that that was fairly typical. The impression that I have is that the act is not bearing fruit so far. That might change, but there seems to be limited use of it and such use as there is seems to be running into difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 418277,
      "EditedText": "Sometimes I think that I am getting more and more bogged down in this quagmire. The idea of having legislation that stands separate from the 1981 act, that has powers of arrest and that is detached from the notions of occupancy rights or property rights, seemed very good. It then occurred to me that a person might end up having an interdict with powers of arrest against someone who was still living in the same house because, if one was a cohabitee or a grandmother, one could not exclude them from the house. Might we not get ourselves into a silly situation if that happened, and what is the way out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 418282,
      "EditedText": "It would be better if the committee could wait. This is a matter for the committee rather than for us, but you must consider priorities, and one is that people might suffer while the committee thinks about a general review of the law.We are against piecemeal legislation in general. It creates problems and it makes the law untidy; it also usually results in problems being overlooked. Ill-considered legislation is always wrong, but there might be a need for urgency, and proper consideration might be given to what might otherwise be regarded as piecemeal legislation.It is possible to give full consideration to the matter and to enact legislation that is directed peculiarly at this issue. As far as I can judge, you would be able to legislate in that fashion in this area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sheriff Wilkinson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 418288,
      "EditedText": "No. I do not think that you are wholly confused, or even at all confused. If the matter were approached only in the way that you envisage, without any amendment of the 1981 act, there would be overlapping provisions. I do not know that that need result in two interdicts being granted, but there would be overlapping provisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 418294,
      "EditedText": "That is not my proposal; I am merely exploring possibilities. I am unconvinced that that would solve the problem that we are trying to solve. I am not at the proposal stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5361936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 418303,
      "EditedText": "Such orders are limited to six months. Section 18 of the act specifically gives a cohabiting partner the same rights as a spouse under section 4, which empowers the court to award an exclusion order. However, that order is limited to an initial period of six months and a second period of six months on special application."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C418304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 418304,
      "EditedText": "The only difference is in time scale?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 418305,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418311",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 418311,
      "EditedText": "Not at all. That was not a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5518186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 418095,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but as Roseanna said, such piece of legislation could go through quickly and make a big difference to a lot of women. We could then have a comprehensive overhaul of the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981—or whatever—which could deal with matters such as contact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.027332+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 418146,
      "EditedText": "We might want to think about that. My second point is that it appears to me that we are sometimes trying to use civil law instead of criminal law to deal with what we call domestic violence, which is a criminal activity. Perhaps the police who are here could address that issue. I agree with Gordon Jackson's remarks. I had a case where power of arrest was nothing to a certain gentleman, because he had a huge criminal record. Some of these people can run rings around the police. I do not mean to impugn the police by saying that; it is simply that such people know how to get round civil law.Thirdly—and I do not know whether this is part of your remit—I hope that you are considering the question of whether the Scottish Legal Aid Board should approach interdicts with powers of arrest differently from other applications. Hard-pressed lawyers find it difficult to handle such applications. Perhaps a different financial test is needed. I do not know whether that is possible. Certainly the legal aid board's activities must be addressed, because it is becoming extremely difficult for practitioners to deal with such urgent matters while dealing with the legal aid board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 418150,
      "EditedText": "Would that be like the common law interdict?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 418185,
      "EditedText": "I agree about the difficulties of corroboration. From my experience, it is often the children who can corroborate and that is the last thing that anyone wants. I also agree that the more specific the interdict, the better for all concerned, including the potential offender. I have some practical questions. I have been in the position where I have intimated the terms of an interdict, with power of arrest attached, to the chief constable and to the local police station, only to find that, when the local police turned up at my client's house, they did not have details of the interdict. That resulted in the client losing confidence in the police. I have a great deal of sympathy for the police on response times. However, if someone has a threatening husband at the door and knows that it will take 10 or 15 minutes for the police to arrive—and that is a quick response time—they will think that a lot can happen in that time. They think, \"By the time the police get here, he has either threatened me even more or he will be off.\" In my experience, they decide not to call the police and not to use the interdict with power of arrest. I want to ask what happens when an attempt is made after that to apprehend the offending husband. Again, I know of a case in which a woman gave up—the man breached the interdict time and again and the police did not apprehend him. He was able to use that as a negotiating position, saying, \"I will not come and do this to you if you let me see the children when I want.\" Against that background, which is not uncommon, what practical things are the police doing about the implementation of the powers of arrest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 418193,
      "EditedText": "That will be useful. I do not want the legislation to be seen as anti-partner or anti-husband, but we must deal with the bad moments in relationships."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 418219,
      "EditedText": "I am not happy about going down the road of reasonable apprehension of violence—that is very vague. I prefer to deal with specific interdicts so that everybody—the potential breacher of the interdict, the spouse or cohabitee, and the police—knows what they are dealing with. As you said, the police will arrive and from computer information will know exactly what the person is interdicted from doing. If the person is on the scene there can be no argument: they are not supposed to be there. I may be pre-empting what the sheriffs have to say but, in my experience, sheriffs want interdicts to be specific. We cannot ask for someone to be interdicted from doing anything at large—even from entering Stranraer. There is a human rights issue.I want to be devil's advocate. The police have a power of arrest, normally against a man, and that man needs to know his position. His rights must be protected so that we are not just acting willy-nilly. We know that a minority of women—the matter was raised by the Family Law Bar Association—use interdicts to influence other matters relating to matrimonial property. Let us have something that is fair to everyone. I am not happy about the general line that is being taken. We should be very specific, so that everyone is clear and there are no grey areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 418221,
      "EditedText": "I see. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 418287,
      "EditedText": "Would not that be solved by having the two kinds of interdict? The court could be asked for a common law interdict and a matrimonial interdict. Could attaching the power of arrest to common law interdicts in cases where there is personal violence solve the problem?Would there be two powers of arrest, or am I too confused?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11189,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 418291,
      "EditedText": "You first raised the subject of the common law interdict with powers of arrest attached. That seems to be clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2381
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Domestic Violence",
      "HeadingID": 11189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 11189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 418293,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I am aware that they must interact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.8875396+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 22 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7520,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7520,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 284327,
      "EditedText": "I now bring the Health and Community Care Committee to order. We are a bit cramped today, so apologies to members of the public who are with us. This is not the best room in which either to serve on or to attend a committee, but that is one of the constraints imposed by the building in which we are working.There are two items on today's agenda. The first is a discussion of our general priorities, continued from our previous couple of meetings. I think that we have almost reached the end of that, at least for the time being. The second is our plans for considering the Arbuthnott report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 284332,
      "EditedText": "We were given information as we came in the door this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 284333,
      "EditedText": "That is because there is an embargo on some of the information from the Accounts Commission that we discussed this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 284338,
      "EditedText": "As is obvious, we have to press to get as much as we can. We should also realise that for many studies we will have to appoint at least one special adviser. Even if we had a full researcher, it is unrealistic to expect that they could spend all their time in one area, as they would have to answer health queries from more than 100 members. I do not want to spend an hour on this but, as I might not get in for a long time, I will say that we have to get our work programme sorted out. We talked about sub-groups. Although we want researchers, the main way for this committee to operate is to talk to the experts; sub-groups are ideally equipped to do that. I propose that, for the foreseeable future, the whole committee considers the Arbuthnott report and community care, and that we form sub-groups to consider smoking and an aspect of health inequalities. The sub-groups can network with every expert they can find so that they can feed into this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 284341,
      "EditedText": "It is not just the Edinburgh Evening News—which has done an excellent job—that is raising this issue. We know that there is a major crisis across Scotland. Last week, we could not discuss the bed crisis in psychiatric patient care in the Lothians. What were we discussing? Spreadable fats. I did not join this Parliament, or this committee, to discuss margarine. We need to deal with some of the major crises of the day. Sub-groups, as Malcolm has said, are one possibility, but some crises must be discussed at the top of the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 284342,
      "EditedText": "I echo Malcolm's suggestion, but I would be concerned about a list of subjects such as the one that Dorothy has given. Frankly, if we adopt the approach of reacting to everything, this committee will not cope, no matter how many staff it has. Such an approach will undermine and undervalue this committee's work. We have to determine our strategic objectives and give weight to the important issues—that does not mean that we will not have to react to emergencies from time to time.As Duncan suggested, we should ensure that the issue of resources is on the corporate body's agenda. It should also be on the bureau's agenda. If there is no progress through the corporate body or the bureau, the conveners should lodge a motion requesting that adequate resources be made available. Such a motion would have weight if every convener signed it.However, if we simply demand more and more because we think that we can do everything, we will weaken our case. We must argue for more resources so that we can be effective in areas that are important to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 284345,
      "EditedText": "We are in danger of undermining our role, because we may find when we read through the papers in detail tomorrow that there were significant questions that we did not ask because we had not had time to look at all the papers in advance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 284346,
      "EditedText": "We did not receive the Accounts Commission report until this morning at its specific request; it did not want to let the report out before today because of an embargo. We had a good, informal meeting with the Accounts Commission this morning on GP prescribing. I congratulate Robert Black on his appointment as the new Auditor General for Scotland. It was a useful meeting, but we were a little hamstrung by the fact that we did not have as much time to read the papers as we would have liked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 284351,
      "EditedText": "We cannot look at the Official Report, because we do not have it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 284356,
      "EditedText": "That left only the Tuesday. We were scheduled to meet on Wednesday—today—so I thought that that was in good enough time. If we had just had a committee meeting and were not going to have another one for a month, I would have looked at it differently. I then did a number of other things. First, I met the Minister for Health and Community Care. I also spoke to the Deputy Minister's office to find out whether this was a local or a national issue. As you know, the distinction between local and national issues comes into the committee's framework. I also spoke, although not in person, to Richard Norris from the Scottish Association for Mental Health. I spoke to the other spokespeople on the committee as well: to Mary Scanlon and, through messages, to Malcolm Chisholm.As a result, I felt that the best way forward was not to look at this issue as a separate agenda item, but to include it in the community care work that we will continue with, I hope, after today's meeting. Information from experts was that the problem with the number of psychiatric beds was caused partly by respite services in the community and partly by on-going problems with care in the community, and that the problem would recur from time to time. Because of that, we ought—rather than react in a sticking plaster sort of a way—to consider the issue properly and in depth, so that we can come up with some answers in our report. I appreciate that this is a serious problem that seems to affect the whole of Scotland, so I suggest to the committee that we include it as an issue to be considered in our community care report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 284358,
      "EditedText": "If I have to put this issue to a vote, I will do so. However, I would prefer us to consider it as part of the wider picture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 284359,
      "EditedText": "I am not forcing this to a vote, but I think that it might be useful for other members of the committee to see the letter, which indicates that the problem is not only in acute psychiatric beds but in intensive care beds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 284370,
      "EditedText": "Neither do I."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 284373,
      "EditedText": "We would be doing ourselves and those we serve a great disservice if we simply picked up on each issue as it arose. We need to improve both the structure of the committee and the way in which we deal with issues. Like Ben, I am very conscious that we have had five meetings but have not yet touched on some of the issues that affect the great majority of the people of Scotland. Would it help to move the meeting on a bit, Margaret, if we examined the priorities that we have already identified?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 284374,
      "EditedText": "That is what I was going to do as soon as you had finished speaking—you were going to be the last speaker."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 284379,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 284380,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that the committee adopts what Hugh said about the corporate body and the bureau. Convener, will you undertake to take our views to the corporate body—and to the bureau—and, if necessary, to raise them as a joint motion with the conveners? That would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 284381,
      "EditedText": "I am in total agreement with everything that Hugh said, against the backdrop of the work on resources that is being done within clerking services, outside the conveners committee. The issue will probably come back to the conveners committee but, after this meeting, I will find out where we are in that process. If I do not feel that we have moved on far enough, I will take on the points that Hugh made. However, I think that the committee will come back to this issue. On the list of priorities, I believe that we have to examine some of them in full committee meetings and others in sub-groups—or with part of the committee. Members' papers include an outline of methods for gathering information. We can carry out business as a whole committee, which we have been doing to date. Alternatively, we can use reporters. Other committees have set up systems where, for example, two members, as reporters, consider a particular issue. Sub-groups are not formally recognised, while sub-committees require the approval of Parliament on a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau. If we set up a reporter system, members of the committee would know which members were the reporters on a particular issue. We could work in a less formal structure around that framework. The conveners committee has been examining those structures, although we do not think that we will necessarily end up implementing them. We think that having to go through the Parliamentary Bureau to set up sub-committees is a long-winded way of doing things. My suggestion is that we try to distinguish between setting up groups of two reporters, for example, who would work on an issue, and using the committee as a whole to examine something. Committee members would be aware of who is examining what. We will be examining the Arbuthnott report, smoking, community care and, possibly, health inequalities. I remind members that, at some point in the not-too-distant future, we will have to consider the rights of protection for adults with incapacity; the bureau will timetable that. It would probably be better to examine Arbuthnott in full committee and something else after that. We would then pick two other things for reporters to examine. I am in the hands of the committee on this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 284386,
      "EditedText": "Community care is such an important issue that I echo Malcolm's recommendation that the whole committee examine it. I want to comment on the appendix to our work priorities document; I should perhaps have picked up on these points earlier. I hope that I am not being pedantic, but some of what it says is ambiguous. Under the heading \"Smoking\", for example, it is one thing for us to identify\"Ill health and the causes and effects of smoking\",but they have already been well documented—I do not see that as the committee's role. I would have thought that the committee's role was more to do with public health: prevention, education and perhaps legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 284387,
      "EditedText": "That is how I see it, too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 284389,
      "EditedText": "The committee's work load priorities were not placed in any order of rank."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 284390,
      "EditedText": "I support what Malcolm said. Discussion of community care should involve the whole committee. We all know, from our mailbags, that there are concerns about community care and its resourcing. Winter emergency admissions will hit us in the face fairly soon, and we must also address the major problem of bedblocking. As sure as God made little green apples, there will be a crisis in accident and emergency wards this winter. Those areas dovetail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 284391,
      "EditedText": "They come under community care as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
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      "ID": 1811,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 284394,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult for all of us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 284401,
      "EditedText": "A report was going to be brought back to the committee, after the conveners meeting, on how we could best proceed with that cross-referencing. Have we received that report yet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 284402,
      "EditedText": "No. The conveners meeting has been delayed by a week; it will meet next Tuesday.I am happy to stand corrected on this, if that is the view of the committee. Ben, was that your point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 284407,
      "EditedText": "Do we have to advise the minister of our questions in advance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 284409,
      "EditedText": "She will have to prepare, because we will be quizzing her on a specific topic, rather than having a general question-and-answer session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 284410,
      "EditedText": "So we have to advise the topics that we want to cover, rather than individual questions?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 284412,
      "EditedText": "Community care should take a high priority and be dealt with by the full committee. We highlighted the fact that we must consider the Sutherland report and we will want evidence on that. We may want to break into sub-committees on some aspects of community care, but the whole committee should be involved in considering the important Sutherland report and what the Parliament can do to implement it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 284416,
      "EditedText": "Rapporteurs groups, I mean. I should have a swear box; if I make a mistake with names, I should have to put some money in it.Is the committee happy that we should set up a group of reporters to look into diet, access and smoking? Do we want to split those issues up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "ID": 2182,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 284417,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should have three separate reports."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 284420,
      "EditedText": "Are you happy with that, Hugh?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284424",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 284424,
      "EditedText": "Ben has been suggested. All right, Hugh and Ben are our reporters on smoking."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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    },
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    },
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      "ContributionID": 284428,
      "EditedText": "Fine. Hugh, Ben and Duncan will be our smoking reporters."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284430",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 284430,
      "EditedText": "No, they are not. And my views on smoking are different from Duncan's."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 284433,
      "EditedText": "Where is the balance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 284434,
      "EditedText": "If you want to join the group, I am sure that you can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 284435,
      "EditedText": "Yes, exactly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 284440,
      "EditedText": "With respect, diet was mentioned by three committee members in our discussion. I am obviously a creature of the committee. It is up to members to tell me what the important issues are so that we can decide what to do about them. However, if members say one thing and change their minds during the discussion, it is difficult to get a good steer on what they think."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 284445,
      "EditedText": "We all agree that access is important and that someone should work on that area. Another group could examine the other issues. I think that Malcolm agrees with me; he has widened his view to incorporate issues such as poverty and education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 284449,
      "EditedText": "Of all kinds?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 284459,
      "EditedText": "The groups will be on smoking, access and poverty. Who would like to examine access and who would like to examine poverty?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 284462,
      "EditedText": "I will go on poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 284466,
      "EditedText": "I want to discuss a healthy diet. If that is under the heading of poverty, so be it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 284472,
      "EditedText": "I will go on it, as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 284473,
      "EditedText": "Irene, do you want to be on poverty?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 284477,
      "EditedText": "Housing is more likely to come under poverty. Margaret is on access."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 284482,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy is on poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 284485,
      "EditedText": "If we are working on the rapporteur system, you cannot be ex officio."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 284488,
      "EditedText": "I am not going to be on any of those groups, but I will be interested in how they are making progress. I will keep an eye on them, so that I know what members are examining and when they will be able to report back to the committee. I am not intending to be on any of the three groups, for the reason that Hugh stated.Are we happy that we have a way forward? Can I say that we are not going to change this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 284491,
      "EditedText": "On diet, in particular, a large number of members will know what the problems are. We do not need much more new evidence. Little new evidence has emerged in the past few years. It will be more efficient to consider the practical health education that is required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 284492,
      "EditedText": "We have established where we are. In one or two cycles' time, I will ask for a report from members who have been put into sub-groups on their initial thoughts about what they will be able to prepare and what their time scales are. There is no point in the committee imposing a time scale, because the work load of the three groups will be different, so it is up to the sub-groups—or the reporters—to say how much time they need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7522,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ID": 7522,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 284496,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:41."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 284328,
      "EditedText": "As I said, we considered some of our priorities at our first meeting and at our meetings on 8 and 15 September. In many ways, our work load is subject to what others choose to do, but we have decided to proceed with two issues: community care and smoking. In this part of the meeting I intend us to examine the list that has been prepared for us and to identify ways in which we can take those two items forward. When we come to discuss community care, I will refer to some of the points that members of the committee have raised about mental health issues. I hope that, as a result of what we come up with today, members of the committee can start to work on those issues, which will take some months to deal with.Before we address our priorities, I should say that all of us are experiencing difficulties with the way in which we are expected to work. That goes for all committee members, and I think that it also goes for our staff. We are meeting weekly, it should be recalled. Like us, official report staff have a heavy work load and are under pressure to come up with the goods. There are definitely some lessons that we could learn.As I have said previously, I am happy to take concerns that members have raised—as well as my own—to the informal conveners committee. Duncan Hamilton has some points to make about the way in which we are having to work, which impinges on our ability to deal with our priorities. In the absence of an agenda item on this issue, I am happy to listen to what he has to say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 284329,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that what I have to say is particularly contentious, because I am sure that everyone is aware of the problems. I should say at the outset that this is not meant as a criticism of individual researchers and staff members of the official report—at issue are the resources that they have at their disposal.From where I stand there is no doubt that the resources for this and—as I gather from talking to colleagues—other committees are utterly inadequate. There is no way that the research capacity is adequate—one or two people must cover several committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 284330,
      "EditedText": "We have a third of a person to do our research."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 284331,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. That is a frightening concept.The amnesic shellfish poisoning briefing arrived a week after we interviewed the minister, and it would have been useful to have information in advance of this morning's meeting, because I must read a report and a press release and listen at the same time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 284334,
      "EditedText": "That is okay, but do you accept my general point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 284336,
      "EditedText": "The other issue that has come to the fore concerns the Sutherland report. I asked the research department to put together information on the important issue of what the Scottish Parliament will deal with and what will be dealt with at Westminster. I was told that the research department was not able to do that.There is a serious principle at stake here—a lack of resources is impinging this and other committees' ability to deliberate and to question the Executive properly.I know that you have taken this issue to the conveners group and that you broadly agree with me, convener, but we must find a much more forceful way of dealing with this problem. It is not enough to put our hands up and say that we are struggling. We must push this back to the corporate body or invite a representative of that body here. I would like guidance on that.I would like to raise an issue about the Official Report. I read a press report of our previous meeting the day after that meeting. It did not reflect what I remembered of that meeting. We must be able to see the verbatim account of what has been said, but in that instance it was not available. I mean no criticism of the individuals involved—the resources are not currently available to turn the Official Report around in that time.Those are two big issues that must be addressed in order for this committee to work well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 284337,
      "EditedText": "I agree. If anyone has managed to get a copy of the Official Report they will see that I am on record as having said that. I have raised the issue with the conveners committee and with the First Minister. I have also raised the issue in the press and other media in the past couple of weeks, as have other conveners.We have done so not because we want to spend more money or because we are being profligate, but because every one of us—as committee members or Parliament staff—wants to ensure that we do our job properly. The circumstances in which we are expected to work militate against that.I had a chat with Archy Kirkwood, who chairs the Social Security Committee at Westminster. We talked about the range of the job of committees in this Parliament and I asked what resources are available to him. He told me that our committees have three or four times as much work to do as a Westminster committee, but that the resources available to them are substantially greater than what is available to us.The crux of the matter is that this committee—which is involved in areas that take up something like one third of the Scottish block—must work with one third of a researcher. If we must hold the Executive to account, that is not acceptable.I can see lots of hands, but I do not want to spend too much time on this issue. Members should contribute if they feel that they have something specific to add, rather than general points.Duncan and I have said what everyone feels; we must now think about how to make progress. I understand that staffing, resources and research capability are already being looked into as a result of our comments. I hope that the findings of that examination will provide a way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 284339,
      "EditedText": "Because of shortages we are unable to thrust on to our agenda major emergency issues, such as the meningitis immunisation crisis. Today's Edinburgh Evening News carries an example of the Alzheimer's crisis—a poor man has been abandoned by the national health service and is unable to get long-term care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 284348,
      "EditedText": "We could meet every day and look at those issues. I will address Kay's points four-square in a moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 284352,
      "EditedText": "I said that this committee's reports and the work that we do—the two areas that we have identified at the moment are community care and smoking—must be seen as being of best possible value. That means that we cannot have a knee-jerk response. The reports must be in-depth, which, as Malcolm said, will involve talking to a range of experts. I want to ensure that our reports are seen as being exceptionally good reports on which the Parliament will act. That is what I mean when I say \"long term\". I do not see how we can do a report on community care quickly. I am absolutely of the view that the issue that Kay raised is fundamental and should be considered in our report. However, it must be done against the backdrop of ensuring that our reports will change the way in which things are done. The highlighted issue is one where change is required. The report is an ideal way to examine the issue so as to achieve something, rather than examining it as a knee-jerk reaction and simply saying, \"Isn't that appalling.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 284355,
      "EditedText": "I accepted that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 284357,
      "EditedText": "May I circulate the letter? That might be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 284360,
      "EditedText": "Taking into account what has been said at the conveners committee and what the head of the committee office has said about how committees have to work and set their agendas, I have said that I do not want to discuss this issue as a separate item on the agenda. In the future, I would be happy for us to discuss, as an agenda item, the way in which the committee can deal with situations that call for an immediate reaction. That would be perfectly acceptable. At the moment we cannot react—although we as a committee and I as a convener will be asked to. It would be better to have in place a way in which we could.On this occasion, having studied the background to this issue, I decided that instead of reacting in a knee-jerk way, the best thing to do was to consider it as part of our report. I suggest that the letter should be circulated, but as part of the community care work that we will do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 284362,
      "EditedText": "I am happy for us to do that, but I do not want us to have a specific discussion at this point.The other point that Kay raised about having a vice-convener has been raised at the conveners committee but it has not yet been resolved. I believe that it will be for the bureau to resolve it, so it is a matter for all our business managers. My reason for not agreeing to hold an emergency meeting of this committee was not because I did not have a vice-convener or because I was in Harrogate for two days. I think that I have made my reasons clear. However, from time to time and for a number of reasons, we will need to have a vice-convener. We should send a clear message that we want to have a vice-convener in place sooner rather than later. That would be especially useful when, for example, we break into sub-groups to consider separate issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 284364,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it highlighted the fact that we need a vice-convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 284371,
      "EditedText": "The people of Scotland have raised expectations and MSPs want them to be met, but it is the minister and the Executive who must take action. We can criticise, scrutinise and raise awareness, but we cannot put more resources into the service here, there and everywhere. We must realise the limits of what can be done by this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 284375,
      "EditedText": "If you do not mind, Margaret, I will move on to that point, which will save you having to come back to me. Aspects of community care, such as winter emergency admissions, should not be discussed in isolation. While there are problems with winter emergency admissions, there are also problems that might occur in the spring or in the autumn. We need to examine how social work, the voluntary sector and the health service work together to alleviate those problems, which would bring them within the area of community care. At a previous meeting, we talked about setting up small groups to look at particular areas. Given the work load that has been identified for this committee, our constituency work load and our work as members of other committees, the only way forward is to establish small groups; if we do otherwise, we will become burned out, as will the clerks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 284377,
      "EditedText": "We have used up quite a lot of our time today. We have all given our views and I hope that everyone feels that they have got something out of the discussion. I said that I was happy for us to have an agenda item at a future meeting on how we should deal with emergency issues. I said that I took on board Kay's comments; she was perfectly reasonable in raising the subject of an emergency meeting with me and I think that we found a satisfactory conclusion. Perhaps we could come up with ideas on how to deal with emergency issues in the future. Can we agree that it is time to move on? We have considered the question of resources—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 284378,
      "EditedText": "Can we be very clear about that? Will you take from this discussion the committee's view that this committee is under-resourced in terms of both the Official Report and research facilities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 284383,
      "EditedText": "The standing orders state how we can constitute things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 284384,
      "EditedText": "So we can have three or four people in what we call a reporters group. What you said on the choice of subjects is similar to what I proposed earlier. It goes without saying that we have to get on with considering the Arbuthnott report; I do not think that there is a case for a sub-group on that. I am open to persuasion on community care; I thought that the whole committee could examine that. I strongly feel that we should have sub-groups on smoking and on an aspect of health inequality. There is possibly some tension in this committee between those who want to emphasise smoking and those of us who want to emphasise health inequalities, although it does not go along party lines. Diet might be a good subject for opening up the whole issue of health inequality. There might be advantages in having two full committee inquiries running together. When we discussed Arbuthnott, we said that we would not need to allocate every meeting until 14 November on it. I propose that we do not get into the detail of what we will do on Arbuthnott until we have the briefing next week. That way, we might get out of the room at 12.30 pm."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 284385,
      "EditedText": "That is very optimistic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 284395,
      "EditedText": "We agreed that smoking was an issue in itself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 284396,
      "EditedText": "We did not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 284398,
      "EditedText": "We agreed that it was a topic, but not that it was a priority. We did not agree how to proceed on other issues, such as winter emergency admissions. We talked about smoking in relation to addiction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 284399,
      "EditedText": "There was also confusion over the fact that addiction issues and private finance initiatives were cross-committee subjects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 284400,
      "EditedText": "We said that drugs and PFI were two examples of areas in which this committee would cross-reference with others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 284403,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make clear what I think are our priorities. Community care and health inequalities are important matters that I would like to discuss in this committee. Smoking should be included in the latter. In view of the fact that \"Working Together for a Healthier Scotland\" is being put into effect, public health—people's well-being—deserves to be treated as a higher priority. We can monitor the effects of the white paper and decide how far we are progressing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 284405,
      "EditedText": "We are moving quite quickly towards an agreement. We have to deal with Arbuthnott in full committee. Malcolm's suggestion—that we do not set the precise agenda for that until we have had our briefing—is absolutely correct. I do not want to return to our previous discussion except to use the presentation of the report on GP prescribing as an example. It is an excellent report, but it is impossible for us to be presented with it this morning and to try to deal with it immediately.We seem to have agreed that smoking, although it may not be the top priority, could easily be dealt with by rapporteurs. We should get on with that and deal with it as a public health issue.Community care is a massive issue but winter emergencies must be addressed immediately. We have to take evidence on that very soon, in parallel with, or just behind, our consideration of Arbuthnott. By 14 November, which is our date for Arbuthnott, the opportunity might be gone. I would like us to ask the Minister for Health and Community Care to come and say what plans she has for dealing with winter emergencies this winter. If we know what is coming up, or can ask her whether a statement will be made—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 284421,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 284425,
      "EditedText": "May I join the smoking group?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 284429,
      "EditedText": "But their views are already strongly declared."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 284436,
      "EditedText": "There are definitely different views in the smoking group. I think that, although the group has some political balance, the views that have been expressed to me also have a balance. Everything comes back to the committee. As convener, I am happy with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 284437,
      "EditedText": "I was not talking about party political balance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 284441,
      "EditedText": "Obviously I do not mean diet in any narrow sense. I am confronted by this enormous mountain called health inequalities. We can address the nutritional aspects of diet, but the subject opens up other issues such as poverty—people are unable to have healthy diets because of their incomes, for example—where people live or public transport practices. I am also aware that we could quickly take evidence from the many groups involved in this work. I suggested diet because it is the key that opens up the whole issue of health and poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 284443,
      "EditedText": "I take Malcolm's comments on board, but any topic on the list could be a key that opens up the other issues. I agree with Irene—we should zero in on access."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 284450,
      "EditedText": "People also need to have access to the ability to eat well. They need to have access to all sorts of things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 284455,
      "EditedText": "Another small point of confusion is that those of us who have a special interest in poverty, or housing, are afraid to lock ourselves out of those issues by saying that we will serve on the access group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 284456,
      "EditedText": "We have discussed smoking, access and diet. To get this committee moving and to give people experience of working in smaller groups as rapporteurs, might it not be possible to concentrate for the next month or two—outwith the full committee—on those three issues? Every member, apart from the convener, should be attached to one of those three groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 284457,
      "EditedText": "Part of the benefit of having three groups is that every member of the committee can be on one of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 284458,
      "EditedText": "If I called diet \"poverty\"—as was implicit in what I said—would that help? If we talk about access, we are not getting beyond the health service, but we must bring in health and poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 284461,
      "EditedText": "I will go on poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 284463,
      "EditedText": "Kay, Malcolm and Irene are on poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 284464,
      "EditedText": "I was going to put my hand up for the diet group, which has now changed to poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1826,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 284467,
      "EditedText": "Are you happy with that, Irene? That keeps the poverty group balanced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284469",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 284469,
      "EditedText": "I disagree, as some people in cities have to travel a considerable distance. Access is a problem for everybody, whether in cities or rural areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 284471,
      "EditedText": "I will go on the access group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 284476,
      "EditedText": "I want to be on poverty. Will the poverty group cover housing or will access cover housing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 284478,
      "EditedText": "Diet is called poverty and access seems to be housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 284481,
      "EditedText": "I definitely want to be on poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 284486,
      "EditedText": "You know what I mean, Hugh. I will just keep an eye on what members are doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 284490,
      "EditedText": "Good, please do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7522,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ID": 7522,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 284493,
      "EditedText": "Is everybody happy with the report as it stands on Arbuthnott?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7522,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ID": 7522,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 284494,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Arbuthnott Report",
      "HeadingID": 7522,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ID": 7522,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 284495,
      "EditedText": "Great. The meeting is closed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 22 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7520,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7520,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 284326,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:30"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 284335,
      "EditedText": "I do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 284340,
      "EditedText": "Our agenda should not always be driven by the Edinburgh Evening News."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 284343,
      "EditedText": "I will not reiterate the points about resources, but there is a further issue, which is timetabling. It is crucial that committee members have time to read their papers in advance, to take soundings in their areas and to make any necessary preparations. There is not adequate preparation time, particularly if one is a member of two committees and the committees are having weekly meetings. I sometimes do not receive committee papers until Monday. That does not give me adequate time to prepare for a Wednesday morning meeting. We will run into difficulties if we do not have adequate preparation time. That is one of the problems with having weekly meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 284344,
      "EditedText": "Some of the papers were made available to us literally minutes—in my case, at least—before our previous meeting. I raised that point with Murray Tosh, the convener of the Procedures Committee. Ours is not the only committee to which that has happened. We are calling for patience in other quarters, and we have been quite patient on that. Some of the things that have been going on will be due to teething problems, but we have to be clear that the matter to which Irene refers is not acceptable. As Irene says, we have to ensure that we have as much notice as possible of what will be on our agendas so that we can get the background information and ask the right questions. I know, from members' formal questioning of Susan Deacon on amnesic shellfish poisoning and from your informal questioning of Scottish Executive officials and the Accounts Commission for Scotland this morning, that you can come up with some good questions off the tops of your heads without research, but it is still not good enough—we owe it to ourselves to ensure that we have time to prepare as well as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 284347,
      "EditedText": "As members of the committee will know, I asked for an emergency meeting on acute and intensive psychiatric beds throughout Scotland, which I saw as a real problem that is adding to bedblocking. I have accepted the fact that you—the convener—refused my request, but the e-mail that has been going back and forth has brought up a number of things. You mentioned to me that there were only two working days until today's meeting. There were, in fact, three, but that is nit-picking. The fact that we do not have a vice-convener is a problem that must be addressed. Margaret was elsewhere, as I should be today—it is the party conference season. Correspondence has also raised the issue of the committee's flexibility. I agree that we should have priorities and stick to them, but I would hate us to reach the point at which we have a huge crisis in health service delivery in Scotland and we are spending our time talking about something else. There has to be built-in flexibility. One of us might raise with you an issue—psychiatric beds, for example—that we would like the committee to discuss. You might feel that it was worth the committee spending 15 minutes deciding whether we could have a meeting on the issue between committee meetings. However, I recognise that we have an agenda and priorities that we will come to later. I agree that we should not just react to press reports—we all know what they are like. Today's press is tomorrow's chip wrappers. The issue I wanted to raise did not come from the press."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 284349,
      "EditedText": "As Duncan said, there has been some confusion about our priorities. In a response to me, convener, you said:\"I believe the issue will be best addressed by considering it as part of our long term work on Community Care.\"Now, you are saying that community care is, quite rightly, one of our No 1 priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 284350,
      "EditedText": "That is what I am saying. However, if you look at the Official Report from the previous meeting—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 284353,
      "EditedText": "We must have some flexibility though. We could find ourselves in the middle of a huge winter crisis in accident and emergency units with bedblocking and other problems. The committee must be able to consider what is happening out there, otherwise what do we do? Would we have to raise a petition and get 50 signatures before an issue could be discussed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 284354,
      "EditedText": "I raised that issue at our previous meeting. I require guidance from the committee on how we should react flexibly against the backdrop of the range of work load priorities that we have agreed during several meetings. We have come up with ideas of the issues that we want to consider. There is, I hope, unanimous agreement on what those issues are. How we balance that work programme and producing quality reports with reacting, from time to time, to events is one of the key problems that faces every committee. Following your request the other day, Kay, I accepted that the provision of in-patient psychiatric beds in Lothian and other areas was a serious issue, and I did a number of things. On Thursday evening, at about 5 or 5.30 pm, you asked for an emergency meeting of the committee. Friday and Tuesday were the only days on which we could have held an emergency meeting before today, as Monday was a holiday and there were no staff here. There were, therefore, two working days on which we could have held the meeting. It was not feasible to hold it on the Friday as the request came only at 5 o'clock on Thursday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 284361,
      "EditedText": "That is what I was asking to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 284363,
      "EditedText": "Yes, what happened certainly highlighted a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 284365,
      "EditedText": "I would like to say two things. This is our fifth meeting, and I have to say that we have done the square root of nothing. We have carried out a few examinations and we have learned about amnesic shellfish, but by the end of today's meeting, can we have our priorities and our working groups sorted out? If we need a vice-convener, what is to stop us electing a vice-convener?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 284366,
      "EditedText": "Standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 284367,
      "EditedText": "Beaten by the standing orders. Can we do that—can we sort things out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 284368,
      "EditedText": "I am not letting you out of the room until we have done all those things. We need to set priorities, we need that agenda and we all need to know what we are meant to be working on. The talking stops at this meeting. We have been having the kind of meetings that we needed to have; otherwise, we would not have been able to set a forward programme. After this meeting, however, we will have done that and we can set about our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 284369,
      "EditedText": "I sympathise with Dorothy's point of view, but I also concur with pretty well everything that Hugh says. This week's crises in the health service concern the mentally ill, the meningitis vaccine, Alzheimer's disease and bedblocking. If we adopt a crisis management point of view every week, we will never get anywhere.This committee cannot solve those problems. The last thing I want is a queue of people knocking at our door saying, \"Put all this right.\" It is a basic tenet of democracy that ministers are responsible for those things, although all of us are committed to health. There should be a clear division of responsibility. I do not want people to come to you, convener, asking why you have not done anything about bedblocking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 284372,
      "EditedText": "This is a difficult discussion and, because it is about process, it is not very interesting. It is nevertheless crucial that we get things right, because if we make mistakes now we will set a precedent for the rest of time.The Official Report of our meetings must be produced timeously. If we cannot comment and reflect on what has been said before the next meeting it will interfere with our work. I urge you, as our convener, to press in the conveners meeting for that to be dealt with.I do not believe that the committee is the appropriate place in which to deal with emergency issues: the Parliament should deal with them. There is a procedure for emergency oral questions and emergency motions to challenge and scrutinise the Executive on such issues. If this committee gets into the process of reacting to crises—and there will be crises over the next 12 months—we will do an extremely bad job that will be badly researched, responding to buttons that are being pushed in different areas. That would be quite wrong.Let us look at a model of such a situation by considering intensive care psychiatric unit beds. Your approach is correct, convener. We can debate whether the crisis has arisen because there are too few beds, reflect on it, take evidence on it and examine the matter over a period of time. We should not have an emergency debate. It is for the chamber to question the minister about why the situation has arisen.If we think that a crisis issue is important and likely to recur, let us put it into our work programme for the winter. We must not make a habit of holding emergency meetings. That is not our function. As many people have said, we will be subject to pressures from doctors and nurses and from others in the health service who want us to consider particular emergencies, but that is the Parliament's function."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 284376,
      "EditedText": "I beg leave to make a small point. People have the impression that I was suggesting that we should run with every major emergency issue. Although we cannot do that, we cannot avoid discussing some of those issues. We do not want the public to think that we are avoiding controversy. Smoking, which is a 300-year-old issue, is at the top of our agenda. We should be discussing more urgent matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 284382,
      "EditedText": "On the procedural question, I do not totally understand your distinction, convener. When you say that sub-groups are not formally recognised, I do not know what that means. Why should we limit a group to one or two people? The Equal Opportunities Committee is based on small groups; if such groups are not formally recognised, that does not mean that they cannot meet. The semantic distinction between a reporters group and a sub-group is absurd, so I suggest that we do not get tied up with limiting a group of people examining an important issue to two."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 284388,
      "EditedText": "Similarly, under the heading, \"Health Inequalities\", we have a list: \"GenderSocial ClassGeographyEducationPovertyDiet Housing\".It is easy to identify gender inequalities, social class inequalities and geographical inequalities in health. The other factors are, in my view, either causes or effects. They are indicators, which are related to the inequalities, but not themselves inequalities. It is important to distinguish between the well-documented inequalities that are related to gender, class and geography and the other, causal factors that are related to those inequalities. I want public health to be moved further up the agenda—at the moment, it is second bottom. It is this committee's responsibility to analyse information and improve the lives of people in Scotland, and public health is an area in which we can make a difference. I would prefer that aim to be given a higher priority in the medium and longer term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 284392,
      "EditedText": "The issue of smoking can be dovetailed with health inequalities. Smoking concerns health inequalities. We know that people in deprived areas smoke more; they also have a less healthy diet. Rather than examining smoking on its own, could we not consider emergency admissions in the context of community care and smoking in the context of health inequalities? That would make sense to me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 284393,
      "EditedText": "Without the Official Report in front of me, I find it difficult to remember exactly how this issue was to be dealt with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 284397,
      "EditedText": "Did we not? I thought that we did."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 284404,
      "EditedText": "There has been consensus that the committee should examine the Arbuthnott report. If we start to go down the road that we are now discussing, that would contradict what Malcolm suggested. If the whole committee considered every aspect of community care, it would have to meet permanently for the next few months. Many different strands of community care need to be given attention. There is probably some consensus on many of them already. We need evidence and some suggestions about the way forward. I would not feel precious if someone else made suggestions on winter emergency admissions or on the problems of integration with local authorities. The important thing is that the suggestion is brought back to the whole committee to be endorsed. Sub-groups, or small numbers of people working together as joint or co-rapporteurs, do not have the committee's power to make recommendations. The matter has to come back to the committee.The benefit of splitting up the work load is that we will get more work done. When the rapporteurs come back with recommendations, we may not need another discussion. If the recommendations are clear enough and if we have consensus, we do not need another debate.I would caution that, if the whole committee tackled community care, the discussion would be never-ending, because everyone would feel obliged to put their view on record. We will achieve nothing in this committee; we have already witnessed, over four or five meetings, what happens when we have general discussions on big topics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 284406,
      "EditedText": "The minister is coming in November, which might be a bit late. She is coming on 6 October about Arbuthnott and on 17 November for a range of questions on a number of issues. You might want to raise the issue of winter emergencies at that meeting, Richard. The clerks will be e-mailing everyone to ask what questions they want to ask the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 284408,
      "EditedText": "That will enable her to give us answers on the day, instead of having to refer to her officials."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 284411,
      "EditedText": "Topics or areas, yes. A very important health inequality issue—the question of access—has been omitted from our priorities list. Scotland is about to follow the UK in terms of putting money into NHS Direct. I do not know the details of how that is going to happen, but it concerns access to medical services. I would like to hear about that fairly soon. Access and diet are the two important health inequalities; they could be dealt with initially by rapporteurs and then by the full committee. That is a good work programme. The other subjects are multi-committee issues that Margaret will be taking up with the other conveners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 284413,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure whether I misunderstood, Richard, but I hope that community care is top of the agenda. It is not only about winter admissions, but about care of the elderly, about waiting lists, about bedblocking and about patients who are sitting in their homes waiting for treatment because there is not a bed for them. It is a huge area, and I hope that it is No 1 on our agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 284414,
      "EditedText": "I think that community care is an issue for the full committee, because it is so serious and because members of the committee who were not members of any sub-group or group of reporters would feel that they had missed out on the chance. We all want to be involved in it. However, we will have to be specific about the issues that we consider and tighter in the way in which we deal with things in full committee.The standing orders provide for reporters but not for sub-groups. I do not care what we call them; I just want the job done. The creation of sub-committees requires a decision by the bureau. We can decide that we want to set up sub-committees, but we have to take that decision to the bureau. However, we can decide that we want to set up groups of reporters, and call ourselves reporters, and that will be all right in terms of the standing orders. That might seem a bit silly but we want to get the job done.Two health inequality issues have been highlighted—diet and access. Smoking could be a third, if we want to put it on the agenda, although I will ask the committee to clarify that. Richard spoke about access in terms of NHS Direct and one-stop shops. Although we must take on board the fact that some members feel that community care could be looked at more effectively in a smaller group, if we can agree that Arbuthnott and community care should be considered in full committee, we are left with the question of what should be considered by smaller sub-groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 284415,
      "EditedText": "Rapporteurs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 284418,
      "EditedText": "Yes, they are three separate areas, so there should be three separate reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 284419,
      "EditedText": "I propose that Hugh Henry and one other should be the rapporteurs on smoking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 284422,
      "EditedText": "Does anybody else want to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 284423,
      "EditedText": "What if I do it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 284426,
      "EditedText": "Yes, if you want to do smoking, you can do smoking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 284427,
      "EditedText": "Well, doing smoking would be a bad example, but I would like to join the group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 284431,
      "EditedText": "But we have no balance in the group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 284432,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 284438,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are okay on that.What about the issue of diet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 284439,
      "EditedText": "I can see why Richard has identified the issue of access, because it seems to differ from the other factors. For example, there is the problem of accessing services in rural areas. However, that problem is different and more difficult in urban areas because a combination of factors is involved. I am not sure that we can examine diet in isolation. I can understand how we can isolate access by considering issues such as service delivery, because that has an impact on health inequalities. However, diet is interlinked with areas such as poverty and housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 284442,
      "EditedText": "Diet is a public health issue and organisations such as Barry Grub in Malcolm's area are doing good work on it. It is good to get that on public record as an example of best practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 284444,
      "EditedText": "Can I get a steer from the committee? Should we go for access and diet or for one or the other?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 284446,
      "EditedText": "We will set up a second group to investigate access. Can I have three people who are interested in that area?Oh come on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 284447,
      "EditedText": "Give us your definition of access, convener. Access to what?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 284448,
      "EditedText": "Access to services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 284451,
      "EditedText": "Housing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 284452,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We have to give a general steer to the sub-groups. When those groups have examined the initial work on their subjects, they will have a better idea of the key issues that they want to investigate. We have to build flexibility into this system. Every committee member will have a different definition of access, which might not be the case with diet. That was one of the good things about including diet on the list, because everyone knows exactly what is meant by that, even though, as Malcolm said, the matter impinges on other areas. Are members happy about examining the issue of access to services?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 284453,
      "EditedText": "I am happy if access means health service delivery and how people access it, but that is a separate issue from diet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 284454,
      "EditedText": "It is a separate issue. I have separated it from diet and we are now considering access."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 284460,
      "EditedText": "I will go on poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 284465,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to achieve a balance. I know that at some point we will lose that balance, as there are only two Conservatives on the committee and I am the only Liberal Democrat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 284468,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to be on the access group, as I think that the subject is more appropriate for people in rural areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284470",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 284470,
      "EditedText": "Access to services is an issue for everyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 284474,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 284475,
      "EditedText": "Richard is on access. Have I missed anybody?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 284479,
      "EditedText": "Would Dorothy not be better on access?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 284480,
      "EditedText": "I would be better on a shot of whisky at this point. Have I missed anybody out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 284483,
      "EditedText": "What is access now covering, Kay? What is this big pudding that is covering access?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 284484,
      "EditedText": "To throw another spanner in the works, I suggest that I should be on all three, ex officio, to keep an eye on what is going on. I would not intend to get involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 284487,
      "EditedText": "The rapporteur system does not work on that basis. It gives responsibility to individuals to do some work and report back to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 22 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1683
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "General Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 284489,
      "EditedText": "Can I make a time-saving point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3985432+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638375,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that, although I am coming from a very different perspective from Fergus on the devolution issue. I do not accept the argument that Scottish and English regulations have to be implemented on the same day. That sets a dangerous precedent concerning the 21-day rule. There is not a shred of evidence that the introduction of the regulations without using the 21-day period would make any difference to anyone. I do not want us to be rushed through things in this Parliament because they have been implemented on a particular day in England and Wales. We have to make it clear that we do not accept the logic of that argument. We regard the periods of time for laying regulations before the Parliament as very important. They should be breached only in the most urgent of circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Dental Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/51)<br />Scottish Dental Practice Board Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/52)",
      "HeadingID": 19284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ID": 19284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 638381,
      "EditedText": "A minor matter has been flagged up on SSI 1999/52 that the committee may want to raise. Do we want to ask why it was thought necessary to include a definition of the term \"health board\"? We do.Margaret Macdonald, our legal adviser, has also asked me to make a general point about instruments relating to the national health service. There may be a question of general competence in dealing with the professions, as they are a reserved matter, although the NHS is a devolved matter. The Executive appears satisfied that this matter is within its competence and I do not have any doubts that if we can run the NHS, we can regulate the professions that operate within it. However, anyone who wants to flag up the issue with the Executive should let me know so that we can consider whether to do so. If not, let us proceed.The legal advisers have also raised a point about the amendments to the regulations. Does any member wish to comment about the numerous amendments being made to the regulations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Dental Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/51)<br />Scottish Dental Practice Board Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/52)",
      "HeadingID": 19284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ID": 19284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 638383,
      "EditedText": "Do we agree to ask the Executive to consider having, as a general principle, a rule of thumb about consolidation? \"That should be done in the spirit of last week's questions—more in sorrow than in anger.\" Consolidation would benefit not only us, but people who need to keep track of the legislation that is coming in apace. Members are agreed to do so.The committee also wonders why regulation 3(a) was necessary in SSI 1999/52, given section 11 of the Interpretation Act 1978. As I do not think that that issue is as substantive as the general principle, perhaps we should just write to the Executive for clarification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Dental Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/51)<br />Scottish Dental Practice Board Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/52)",
      "HeadingID": 19284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ID": 19284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 638384,
      "EditedText": "We should bring the matter to the Executive's attention to ensure consistency in interpretation. Sometimes we receive redefinitions; sometimes we do not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Service Committees and Tribunal) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/53)",
      "HeadingID": 19285,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ID": 19285,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 638385,
      "EditedText": "To some extent, the legal advice on this order is the same as the advice on the preceding instrument and concerns the number of amendments. Should we raise the matter with the Executive? That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C638389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 638389,
      "EditedText": "Who would be responsible for the process of consolidation? We can express concern about the number of amendments all we like, but what is involved in the process of consolidating such a range of amendments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C638396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 638396,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Pharmaceutical Services) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/57)",
      "HeadingID": 19289,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ID": 19289,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 638400,
      "EditedText": "There are no points flagged up by the legal advisers. I take it that we can proceed to the next item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Glasgow) Designation Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/59)",
      "HeadingID": 19291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 19291,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 638402,
      "EditedText": "The legal advice on this instrument raises some points. The problems appear to be the result of defective drafting. I have every sympathy for those who drafted the instrument—doing that is doubtless a nightmare—but we should ask the Executive to reconsider it because there appears to be a gap in the regulations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (City of Glasgow) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/60)",
      "HeadingID": 19292,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 19292,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 638406,
      "EditedText": "Not a bad try."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Travelling Expenses and Remission of Charges) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/63)",
      "HeadingID": 19295,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ID": 19295,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 638411,
      "EditedText": "Do any points arise from that? That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (Optical Charges and Payments) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/64)",
      "HeadingID": 19296,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ID": 19296,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 638412,
      "EditedText": "Again, no points arise. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 19297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 638413,
      "EditedText": "A substantial amount of information was sent out to the committee by the clerks but regrettably we did not receive the memorandum from the Executive until this morning. My view is that the committee is expected to work under considerable pressure in terms of the volume and amount of information that we have to read. To be expected to speed-read a two-and-a-half-page memorandum on an extremely technical, complicated and major item of legislation is unfair. How do other committee members feel about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638373,
      "EditedText": "I raised a number of points about the regulations at our previous meeting and we have now had the benefit of the response from the Executive, the supplementary response and some excellent, lucid and comprehensive legal advice. That advice begins with the statement that the Executive has given a full response but that the replies do not appear to be wholly satisfactory. I share that view. In particular, the Executive has not explained why it has taken two years and six months to implement the European directive relating to the Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations or why the implementation was six months late. There is no acceptable explanation as to why the Executive went on to break the 21-day rule. If they took two years and six months, one would have thought that an additional 21 days would not have been the end of the world. There seems to be no logical justification for the proposition that the regulations, which are a mirror of those that will apply in England, need to be introduced on the same date. I thought we were supposed to have devolution—or perhaps I imagined it. The fact that the directive was implemented after a delay of two years and six months, without giving Parliament the opportunity to scrutinise the detail of the regulations, is quite appalling. It is a precedent that we must not allow to stand. I fully endorse the suggestion that the committee should draw the regulations to the attention of the Parliament. The reasons for doing so are made all the more cogent by the fact that the consultation exercise that has been undertaken is at best incomplete. The supplementary memorandum, which we received only this morning, states that there were two general consultation exercises. One concerned the central principles, the other concerned the policy approach. Neither exercise concerned the actual text of the regulations.I note that the Law Society of Scotland—which I now see is represented at this meeting in the shape of Michael Clancy who is, I am sure, most welcome by all of us—was not consulted about the impact of the regulations, although the Court of Session—not the sheriff court for some reason—is said to have jurisdiction to consider actions about wee plots of trees of more than either one or five hectares. It seems that we will wait in vain for hundreds of years before a crofter or small farmer will litigate in the Court of Session about any of these matters. I would have thought that the Rural Affairs Committee should have had the opportunity to examine substantive issues of that nature in detail.I could say a lot more about possible issues that concern me greatly, but the consultation exercise has not concerned the text of the regulations. I think that it should have done, and I hope that the committee will share the views that I have expressed about the importance of drawing the regulations to the attention of Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4793685+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presiding Officer (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ID": 19298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 638419,
      "EditedText": "I note the letter from the Presiding Officer, which was supplied quickly, unlike some of the responses from the Executive. The Presiding Officer agreed with the importance that we placed on this issue. The two matters were that several instruments had breached the 21-day rule, and that others had come into force before they were laid before Parliament—the gap was, I believe, about seven days in the case of the statutory instruments on amnesic shellfish poisoning and the Belgian foodstuffs regulations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 638376,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have consensus on that point. I note from the supplementary memorandum that we received this morning that the letter from the Forestry Commission, which admittedly only relates to one aspect of the consultation, went out on 27 August 1998, and that the consultation process was to have ended on 10 October 1998. It appears that something has not been happening for a year and, all of a sudden, something has happened far too quickly without adequate consultation. We can only speculate as to how that came about, but it appears that there is too much haste, and individuals in the forestry industry may suffer the consequences. Alasdair, are you satisfied with the general thrust of what the committee is trying to convey, in particular the points raised by Trish and Fergus?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Rankin (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 638377,
      "EditedText": "I will incorporate them in the committee's report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 638386,
      "EditedText": "Although the point about the need for consolidation has also been raised about this instrument, this appears to be only the fourth amendment to the regulations. The principal regulations have been amended even more times than those already mentioned. This appears to be a legal guddle. Should we deal with this matter in a general letter or do we want to individualise it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 638387,
      "EditedText": "Because the principal regulations have been subject to many amendments, we might want to flag up this instrument as an example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 638392,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 638394,
      "EditedText": "The next regulation on the agenda is being amended for an eleventh time. That cannot be satisfactory from anyone's point of view. I see that that regulation has the benefit of introducing a definition of Viagra."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Ophthalmic Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/55)",
      "HeadingID": 19287,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 19287,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 638398,
      "EditedText": "David flagged up that these regulations are on their eleventh amendment. From legal advice and from the committee's comments, that appears to be the only matter that we want to raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Act 1999 (Fund-Holding Practices) (Transfer of Assets, Savings, Rights and Liabilities and Transitional Provisions) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/56)",
      "HeadingID": 19288,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 19288,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 638399,
      "EditedText": "The legal advice on this instrument makes a technical point about definitions and we want to ask the Executive to clarify that. It has also been pointed out that it is difficult to see where in the order the defined phrases could require an alternative meaning. We will also raise that matter with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic Act 1991 (Amendment of Schedule 3) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/61)",
      "HeadingID": 19293,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ID": 19293,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 638408,
      "EditedText": "There is nothing raised there. Is that acceptable? That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parking Attendants (Wearing of Uniforms) (City of Glasgow Parking Area) Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/62)",
      "HeadingID": 19294,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 19294,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 638409,
      "EditedText": "The idea of the Scottish Executive having the power to order people to wear uniforms is alarming. As long as it is restricted to parking attendants I am sure it is okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parking Attendants (Wearing of Uniforms) (City of Glasgow Parking Area) Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/62)",
      "HeadingID": 19294,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 19294,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 638410,
      "EditedText": "I think that we will probably be satisfied with that for the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 19297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 638414,
      "EditedText": "We need to consider very carefully any major bill that brings in a range of new powers to introduce subordinate legislation. Since we only received the Executive explanation of those powers today, I agree with Kenny that we should delay our consideration for at least a week. I think that will still fit the agreed time scale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 19297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 638415,
      "EditedText": "As this is the first such bill to come before us, we should draw to the Executive's attention that we require any report within a reasonable time scale if we are to play our proper part."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presiding Officer (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ID": 19298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 638420,
      "EditedText": "That is unacceptable. Before this Parliament came into being, there was a lot of talk about pre-legislative scrutiny. If the 21-day rule has been breached and committees have been denied an opportunity to scrutinise legislation, it makes a mockery of pre-legislative scrutiny.There are two serious points of principle. I was pleased that the Presiding Officer shared the sense of importance that we felt. The question is what we do now. Certainly, as Bristow has suggested, we should draw this matter to the attention of the Executive again. Because points of principle exist, it is important that all members of the Parliament should be made aware of the arguments, in a simple way. This committee should consider some means of doing that, such as a special report, a statement in the business bulletin, or some similar method.Secondly, a wider issue is raised of how we make the meaning of subordinate legislation clear to all members of the Parliament. Perhaps a seminar or training session in \"Subordinate legislation made simple\"—if that is possible—would help all members in their work of examining subordinate legislation in detail in committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 638393,
      "EditedText": "These seven or nine statutory instruments about the health service concern changes in nomenclature following the re-organisation of the health service. However, although I have to confess that I have not made a detailed study of the issue, I note that the regulation covers a number of entirely unrelated, substantive and intriguing matters such as contraceptive service, erectile dysfunction, Parkinson's disease and prostate cancer. Obviously, such matters are not being taken into account because of health service reorganisation.The serious point is that this regulation contains technical amendments consequent upon reorganisation, and also substantive issues. That should buttress the case for consolidation. It might not be important if the regulations were concerned purely with nomenclature and formal matters. It is, however, very easy to miss the more important matters in the regulation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4793685+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Dental Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/51)<br />Scottish Dental Practice Board Amendment Regulations 1999<br />(SSI 1999/52)",
      "HeadingID": 19284,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ID": 19284,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 638382,
      "EditedText": "We should have a rule of thumb; perhaps five or six amendments would be acceptable, after which there should be consolidation. One piece of regulation has had seven amendments, which makes it impossible to go through the legislation to examine what has been changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 638388,
      "EditedText": "We could also note our cause for concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 638390,
      "EditedText": "The matter would go back to the lawyers, who, instead of lodging an amendment to the legislation, would start afresh and try to redefine the regulations. Perhaps now, at the start of the new Scottish Parliament, is the time to work out how we wish to regulate our health service within the devolved structures. That cannot be done across the board, because the lawyers would be snowed under. It is a matter for the Executive, which should perhaps start to consider things afresh instead of tinkering with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 638395,
      "EditedText": "Ian, did you want to raise a point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 638397,
      "EditedText": "Fergus's point is a good one. The more amendments and other matters that are included in an instrument, the more things spiral off. Before I was elected to Parliament, the bane of my life as a practising solicitor was the situation where subordinate legislation meant for the care and protection of children was mixed up with legislation for the monitoring of offenders. That was ludicrous. The two should have been separated and different regulations made. That is a separate anecdote, but the point is that—whether it regards Viagra or something else—new matters are being addressed. That is not simply an amendment. If ever there was a case for consolidation, this might be it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Smoke Control Areas (Exempted Fireplaces) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/58)",
      "HeadingID": 19290,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 19290,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 638401,
      "EditedText": "As with the previous instrument, there are no points to raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Glasgow) Designation Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/59)",
      "HeadingID": 19291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 19291,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 638404,
      "EditedText": "Glasgow can experience what we have in Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (City of Glasgow) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/60)",
      "HeadingID": 19292,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 19292,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 638405,
      "EditedText": "The legal note advises us that if a person is appealing against the imposition of a parking penalty and asks for an extension of time to do so, it is possible that the time limit will be extended but that the appellant will not be advised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (City of Glasgow) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/60)",
      "HeadingID": 19292,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ID": 19292,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 638407,
      "EditedText": "There is also the question of the missing footnote referred to in the definition of a proper officer. We will raise those matters with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability Bill",
      "HeadingID": 19297,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ID": 19297,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 638416,
      "EditedText": "I agree. We can draw it to the Executive's attention that we meet every Tuesday, that we like to get our papers out on Fridays, which is why we said last week we needed an intimation on Thursday. Although yesterday was an Edinburgh holiday, the Executive ought to have been aware that the committee was meeting this morning and would require prior sight of the memorandum. We will give that due consideration next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presiding Officer (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ID": 19298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 638417,
      "EditedText": "The letter from the Presiding Officer is in response to points raised by Bristow and Fergus and communicated last week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presiding Officer (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ID": 19298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 638418,
      "EditedText": "The Presiding Officer says that he does not think that the bulletin is the appropriate place for statements from the Executive. We might include in our next report the view of this committee that it is an error, or shows a lack of regard for the scrutiny process, to submit legislation that either has been given very little time between being laid and coming into force or, on some occasions, has come into force before the Parliament has had it laid before it. It is a fundamental issue of concern for this committee.We might also draw the matter to the attention of other MSPs and write again to the Scottish Executive asking it to ensure that, when statutory instruments are brought forward in the future, sufficient time is given, except when there is an extreme and urgent need to do otherwise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presiding Officer (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ID": 19298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 638421,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments?We were advised that the clerks are considering this, so there is at least some opportunity to flag matters up. Is it fair to say that this committee wishes the clerks to take on board our worry that statutory instruments may not be getting proper consideration in other committees—perhaps through no fault of members—and that we would like that matter to be addressed and brought to the attention of members? That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presiding Officer (Letter)",
      "HeadingID": 19298,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ID": 19298,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 638422,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:47."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638371,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:17"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19280,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19280,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 638372,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. We have apologies from Ian Jenkins. We will press on with agenda item 1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19281,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19281,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638374,
      "EditedText": "I agree with most of what Fergus has said, although I do think that we have devolution. We should perhaps argue that in another place. I am particularly concerned about the delay in implementing a directive from the European Union. We may not agree with all the directives, but as we are in the European Union, the directives have to be implemented. People need to be alerted if that is happening in another place. We will not put up with the process taking two and a half years.I thought that there was some European Union rule stating that if we did not implement directives by a certain time, we would be in shtook anyway. Implementation could happen in other places, but I agree with what Fergus says about the Executive response not being satisfactory. I think that we should continue the process of challenging what the Executive has said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 19282,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 19282,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 638378,
      "EditedText": "We have received extensive legal advice on the Executive's response to this order. Do members have any comments? I see no one does. As a practising member of the Law Society of Scotland, I should declare an interest in this item.The instrument does not appear to address the issues satisfactorily. The legal advice makes it clear that there are three problems. First, there is a lacuna in respect of trials where no witness is sworn, which constitutes defective drafting. Secondly, there is the question of whether the provision constitutes \"an unusual or unexpected use of powers conferred by the parent statute\". A trial starts when a trial starts. If the sheriff or judge believe that a trial has started, why does the Scottish Legal Aid Board not take the same position? Thirdly, it would have been clearer to include a transitional provision.The third point is probably not as important; however, the lacuna and the use of the powers should be drawn to the attention of the Parliament. I also received a telephone call from the Law Society confirming that, while it wants a lot of the content of the statutory instrument to go through—it is not opposed to it in whole—it is worried about those two aspects. I believe that we should flag them up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 19282,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 19282,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 638379,
      "EditedText": "I also declare an interest, as a member of the Law Society. I was concerned that the Executive's response included the suggestion that, because there may be a problem in a small number of cases where trials proceed without witnesses, a meeting should be held once the instrument has been passed. I would have thought that the issue should be sorted out before the instrument is passed. To say that an instrument may cause a number of problems and that a meeting should be held to sort them out after the instrument has been passed is a dangerous precedent to set. That is not the way in which I want the committee to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/49)",
      "HeadingID": 19283,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ID": 19283,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 638380,
      "EditedText": "According to legal advice, no points arise on this order. Can I take it that we can proceed? That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/54)",
      "HeadingID": 19286,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 19286,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 638391,
      "EditedText": "Are we still considering SSI 1999/54?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4793685+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3613
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Glasgow) Designation Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/59)",
      "HeadingID": 19291,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ID": 19291,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 638403,
      "EditedText": "People may get off paying their parking fines. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:09.4109084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 578976,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to hog the discussion, but I want to raise another point. The evidence that was given by your colleague to the Health and Community Care Committee suggested that the institute has a rota for the turnaround of samples received from the whole of the UK. However, if a ban is in operation in Scotland and is affecting people's livelihoods, should not Scottish samplings receive priority? Is the FRS constrained by its resources to deal adequately with the affected area in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 579009,
      "EditedText": "It related to a crisis caused by a fish disease."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 579011,
      "EditedText": "My point was that the compensation arose from a crisis caused—in the main—by a fish disease."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 579028,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have become rather distracted. Neil Fleming was hoping to say a few words about the origins of the Executive's policy on compensation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578987",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 578987,
      "EditedText": "We have conducted a lot of research in both areas in the past few years. We are trying to develop new test methods. A member of our staff did the basic work on which the Canadian kit is based: people in Canada have tried to make it commercial. We also have another test for diuretic shellfish poisoning, on which we are running trials against the accepted EU tests. We would like to get away from using mouse bioassay tests and move towards using biochemical tests. We want to find methods that are quicker. A biochemical test can be automated, which saves time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 578988,
      "EditedText": "I would like to follow up that angle. In your presentation, you talked about the climatic element in the phenomenon. When I visited the Marine Laboratory in the summer, one of your colleagues explained to me that part of the cause might be that the water movement off the west coast was less than usual because of the kind of summer we had had. The water movement must have some bearing on the effect on the matter of the fin fish farming that you were talking about. How much of our theories on the situation and the causes is inspired guesswork and how much is based on evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 578990,
      "EditedText": "That is interesting. It confirms my suspicion that an awful lot still has to be established.I would like to ask Mr Fleming what his and his department's view is of the research requirement in the area. How does the department think research into the causes of algal blooms should be taken forward?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fleming: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 578993,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. The problem has been a priority for the Fisheries Research Service. Dr Davies has explained how that works in relation to their overall resources.I understand that discussions will take place this week between the department and the FRS on the implications of research for their budget and on where money would come from to pay for it. I cannot say more than that as I know no more."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 578996,
      "EditedText": "May I come in at this point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C579000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 579000,
      "EditedText": "The industry might dispute your view on whether the Government is competent to give compensation in such cases. What about other areas in which assistance might be given? For example, people could be re-equipped to allow them to fish other species or the scallop season could be extended once the ban is lifted. Those measures would help people to recoup some income."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C579004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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      "ID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 579004,
      "EditedText": "We heard that it was not policy to give compensation for natural events. Is ISA natural or artificial?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 579014,
      "EditedText": "It should be considered now; it should not be pushed below the table."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 579015,
      "EditedText": "The principle may have been conceded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 579025,
      "EditedText": "I have a stupid question. Dr Davies said that the algal bloom phenomenon has been well known for centuries on the west coast. Are we, as human beings, trying to defy nature by operating the fishery during the months of May, June, July and August?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 579027,
      "EditedText": "Richard Lochhead has indicated that he wants to ask a very short question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 579031,
      "EditedText": "As we have come to a natural conclusion to the discussion, we should thank all the gentlemen who have contributed to the debate. This subject was rather thrust upon us; the primary committee that concerns itself with ASP is—and will remain—the Health and Community Care Committee. However, we were concerned about ASP's impact on the industry, which is why we are delighted that our witnesses came along today to give us the information that we need to examine the longer term problems affecting the industry.Before we leave the subject, there are a couple of points to consider about how this committee will progress the issue. First, Mr Fleming, as the representative from the rural affairs department, was being pushed rather further than expected on a number of issues. As a result, does the committee think that the fisheries minister should be asked certain questions about this subject?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579033",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fleming: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 579033,
      "EditedText": "That is my understanding, but I have not done much research on the subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 579038,
      "EditedText": "Should the report go to Parliament or to the health committee, which is the lead committee in this area?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 579044,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17625,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 579051,
      "EditedText": "I think that that falls outwith the concern of the committee. What is important is that we are confident that we understand what the statutory instrument relates to and are satisfied that it is designed specifically to deal with the issues before us and does not stray into other areas. Do members have any questions relating to the explanation?If there are no questions relating to the explanation, we have achieved what we set out to do. We have had the benefit of listening to someone who understands the reasons and terms behind the statutory instrument that is laid before us and we are now in a position to make the decision that is required.I thank the witnesses for attending the committee. You are now free to leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579049",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 579049,
      "EditedText": "Just to ensure that we understand what it relates to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 579053,
      "EditedText": "That would be a practical way of dealing with such instruments in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 579057,
      "EditedText": "How can witnesses be asked to leave an open public meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17625,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 579058,
      "EditedText": "We can ask them to sit elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 578929,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is the issue of amnesic shellfish poisoning. The lead committee is the Health and Community Care Committee, but we have decided that it should be one of this committee's priorities as it is important that we understand the causes and effects of the disease.We have invited a number of organisations today to give evidence. I welcome Dr John Davies, Mr John Hermse, Mr John MacAlister, Mr Doug McLeod, Mr Bob Stubbs and Mr Neil Fleming.I propose that we ask each of the gentlemen to make their presentation to the committee. After they have done so, I will ask members of the committee to ask questions of any who have spoken so that we can follow a line of questioning that might move from speaker to speaker. That should allow us to bring out the intricacies of the matter.It would also be appropriate to point out that, for many reasons, only those who are representing their organisations at the table should participate. It is difficult for comments made from the seats behind to be recorded in the Official Report because there are no microphones. It would also be slightly irregular for discussion to extend into the public area. However, if any information needs to be transferred, please feel free to approach the table and pass it to the representative.I will begin the discussion by inviting Dr John Davies, from the Marine Laboratory in Aberdeen, to address us on amnesic shellfish poisoning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 578931,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. If members would like any points to be clarified, I will allow them to ask questions. As there are no questions, I invite Mr John Hermse of the Scallop Dredging Association to address us."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 578936,
      "EditedText": "Mr MacAlister, you said that you have doubts about the nature of the research and went on to talk about the time scale. Are you questioning only the time scale or something more fundamental about the research?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C578932",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Hermse (Scallop Dredging Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 578932,
      "EditedText": "I have circulated a document to members of the committee containing the points that I want to make. Basically, we want compensation for those directly affected who can prove losses. The ban has led to a loss of fishing opportunities, particularly for fishermen in smaller vessels. The length of the ban and the wide area that it covers have made some small vessels and some divers turn to fishing areas in open waters and marginal weather conditions, compromising vessel safety to get income. Fishermen and processors who are directly affected by the ban and who are able to prove losses should be compensated. Are there any plans to give increased quotas for nephrops and whitefish to those who are dependent on scallop fishing? Increased effort on other species has a knock-on effect on those who traditionally fish for those species. If we renamed fishermen sea farmers, I have no doubt that any request for compensation would be looked on favourably. Bans such as the one in place because of ASP cause increased effort in other fishing grounds, especially those adjacent to the closed areas. That is another good reason for compensation, otherwise the areas where effort is increased are liable to come under severe pressure. The public perception of scallops waned in the United Kingdom because of several cases of what I would term irresponsible reporting, which portrayed the ban as being caused by a Frankenstein-type scenario. That led to a drop in demand at home and abroad. The industry has worked extremely hard to maintain public confidence in the product. We ask the Government to help fund an advertising campaign to reassure the public and to help regain those lost markets. One aspect of the ban that should not be overlooked is the stress and social problems caused by the uncertainty, financial hardship and loss of businesses and jobs as a result of the ban. The Government should be aware of those problems when proposing yet more legislation to add to the myriad regulations that are already in place in the industry. The extremely high levels of ASP toxin are exacerbated by factors that are as yet unknown, but that are possibly pollution based. It is therefore imperative that urgent action be taken to investigate the causes of the high toxin levels. Research funding should be made available to the Fisheries Research Service to liaise further with marine science authorities in countries such as Canada and the United States, to ensure co-ordinated and cohesive research. Algal bloom toxins are a worldwide problem. Would it be possible for the FRS to make available a marine scientist to study the methods used in other countries to sample, monitor and research the causes of ASP? Funding is also required to develop and verify the Jellett 10-minute test kit for use on board fishing vessels as part of an early warning system. If the product could be verified, it would greatly reduce the size of closed areas and the time spent monitoring and sampling and would give improved area cover. The prototype field test kit that Jellett Biotek has developed will detect the presence of ASP in less than 10 minutes. Although it will not make the ASP problem go away, it will provide technology for fishermen, scallop farmers and divers to test shellfish, to check whether ASP is present and thus allow them to avoid areas containing contaminated product. Jellett Biotek would be interested in collaborating with the Scottish industry to identify Government funding mechanisms that would assist it financially in completing the development and validation of the test in the United Kingdom. Our association has been asked to present a paper at an international conference in southern Ireland at the end of this month. There, we hope to come across people who have experienced or are experiencing the problems caused by ASP and other harmful algal bloom toxins and discuss how they have coped with those problems from a practical point of view. We want co-ordination of end-product testing for processors so that results can be pooled for everyone's benefit. The Scallop Dredging Association has agreed with its members that a co-ordinated approach to end-product testing, as suggested by the Scottish Executive rural affairs department's food safety unit at a meeting on 6 August, is in the scallop industry's interests. We will now revert to the food safety unit to discuss the modus operandi of such a system.There should be more co-operation with the Fisheries Research Service to obtain samples from as wide an area as possible so that there is almost maximum necessary coverage. Furthermore, our members have agreed to co-operate with FRS to supply samples from as wide an area as possible along with accurate location information.We also want to ask FRS and SERAD about the level of sampling in other EU countries. Is there an EU-wide level playing field on this problem? Are imports subject to EU directive 91/492? Rumours have been circulating that other EU and UK countries are not quite as diligent about testing as we are in Scotland. Will the Government assure the industry that the testing procedures are followed as assiduously in other countries, that there are no differentials and that the areas of closure, in view of their immense size, are necessary, without compromising consumer safety?After taking advice from the FRS, does the Government think that toxin levels on the west coast were ever as high, prior to sampling, as they are now? If so, why were there no reported cases of illness from the area?We need a freedom of information approach from the FRS and other Government agencies about the possible causes of the high level of toxins. There have been suggestions of cover-ups by Government-run scientific institutions such as FRS about the causes of toxins such as ASP. Will the Government further assure the industry that all known information on the causes and exacerbation of toxins will be released to the industry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578940",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 578940,
      "EditedText": "If we are going to go down this line of argument, perhaps we should go a bit further. Can you be a bit more specific? Either the results of the research are valid or they are not valid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 578941,
      "EditedText": "I am totally happy with the results of the sampling. However, we in the industry have questions. Are the results 100 per cent accurate? What about the period of time between when the sample is taken and the time that it is given out to the public. Mr Hermse made the point that sampling results can be presented within a very short period—as little as 10 or 15 minutes. I feel that there is an onus there for more research to be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578960",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 578960,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not know the answer to the question. The European Commission has raised the question, so there is information in Europe that would supply an answer, but I do not have it at hand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Doug McLeod (Association of Scottish Shellfish Growers): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 578945,
      "EditedText": "I shall not repeat the points that I have already made in two submissions to the committee—I assume that they have been read with great interest by members. Within my 10 minutes, I shall try to expand on certain issues. However, the one thing that I would like to repeat is that, in all these biotoxin events, my members put the safeguarding of public health at the top of our list of priorities.I would like to expand on the specific nature of shellfish cultivation. Although we are generally referred to as shellfish farmers, we are very distinct from salmon farmers. Whereas—using terrestrial terms—salmon farming is akin to intensive livestock farming, shellfish farmers are very much at the mercy of nature. We cannot feed our stock and we do not hold them in unnatural conditions. We merely keep them in an organised way so that they can filter feed naturally in the water. As Dr Davies said, that is when they can accumulate toxins. We cannot affect that. We rely on the productivity and high ecological quality of the sea. Shellfish are, in a way, the victims. They are at the end of the food chain, so anybody who has an effect on the marine environment has an effect on shellfish.We are also very different from the fishing sector. I agree with many of the points that my fishing sector colleagues have raised this afternoon, but we are a different animal. We have different problems and I believe that it is essential that this committee recognises that and tries to ensure that the Scottish Executive provides different solutions. We are culture versus capture. We are premium quality and limited volume versus the more commodity-based approach and the high volume that characterise the dredging sector. We are certainty versus variability. One of the attractions of cultivation to the customer is that we can guarantee what the supply will be because we are aware of our stock. We do not have the uncertainty that faces the capture sector.Those different characteristics mean that there are different solutions to the common problem that we face. As I pointed out in my second submission, this event is distinct from any other west coast experience in past years. The issues are different and their resolution will be different. The Food and Environment Protection Act 1985 closure orders are undoubtedly a blunt instrument that may well be appropriate for the fishery sector, but they are inappropriate for the cultivation sector. That is shown by the fact that in earlier years when paralytic shellfish poisoning and diarrhetic shellfish poisoning outbreaks took place, closures of farms were generally carried out on a voluntary agreement—they were organised between the department and the individual farmers. It was recognised that the imposition of FEPA orders were over the top.Orders were imposed this year because of the scale of the problem—the 8,000 square miles mentioned in the press. Raising the closures is the problem. We do not mind closing farms when there is ASP poisoning, but we believe that when it has gone the constraints should be removed as swiftly as possible. That is difficult under a FEPA closure order. Continuous monitoring is possible; we ought to ensure that when farms satisfy the agreed criteria of two clear samples or two samples below the action level, they are relieved of the marketing constraint. That should apply for the ASP outbreak as it has in the past for PSP and DSP. It was reasonably simple to do it with voluntary closure, but it is very difficult under a FEPA closure order. We need to improve the way such closures are put in place.In addition to a more flexible and appropriate approach to implementing biotoxin control measures for shellfish farms, as my colleagues have said, there is a need for more research to clarify the questions that I have listed in my submission. They include: the trigger mechanisms, why it has been limited to scallops, why such a large area and why for such a long time, and what influence anthropogenic discharges have had on the development of stress for the phytoplankton and the diatoms that create the domoic acid. I do not point the finger at salmon farming, but I raise that as an issue that I know is of concern in the west coast fishing communities. There should be research to show whether salmon farmers are responsible for an increase in stress to the ecosystem. Until there is a clean bill of health, there will be a suspicion that, at the margin, salmon farming is contributing.If there are more flexible and appropriate regulatory measures and more research, shellfish farming, and scallop farming in particular, can look forward to very significant growth and can contribute significantly to the economy of west coast communities. Without such support, two decades of public and private sector investment and Government-supported research and development will be put at risk. Derogation from FEPA constraints on moving juvenile scallops is also critically important. We must have that derogation because moving juveniles is the future of the industry. It has no impact on the food chain and no impact on human health, but while we are prevented by clumsily written legislation from moving stock from one area to another the industry's prospects are put at risk unnecessarily. Scallop farmers have suffered a summer of economic emergency. In the past 48 hours, the Government has recognised the plight of the hill farmers. We believe that the difficulties suffered by the crofters of the seas should be recognised as well, whether through compensation for the destruction of their cash flow over their major season or, as a minimum, by recognising that if this happens in the future, costs will be involved in restructuring the industry so that it focuses on the Christmas market, for example, rather than supplies scallops for the summer season. New supplies of fish and shellfish are generally forecast to be produced largely from aquaculture. That is the future and we wish to ensure that Scottish shellfish contributes to that future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 578946,
      "EditedText": "In previous outbreaks of PSP and DSP, under the voluntary system, after two clear tests, closure orders could be lifted farm by farm. Are you saying that if that regime was in place now there are farms that would be back in production?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Bob Stubbs (Highlands and Islands Enterprise): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 578949,
      "EditedText": "I thank you for inviting Highlands and Islands Enterprise to give evidence to the committee. It is obviously difficult at this stage to provide concrete evidence of the economic impact of this ban, as we are in the middle of a process and the full effects have yet to come out into the open. However, in the past week or so we have undertaken consultation widely within the industry, and have drawn together the available evidence. We have estimated that number of people employed in scallop fishing is 357. You will see on the handout that landings by value are just over £8 million, which is a significant share of overall landing value. We reckon that the number of scallop-fishing jobs represents about 10 per cent of direct fish-catching jobs in the Highlands and Islands.The landing value of scallop fishing as a percentage of total landing value can vary—it is as high as 22 per cent in Campbeltown. In some areas, scallop fishing is regionally significant in terms of landings. Campbeltown, Oban and Mallaig are the key landing ports for those areas.Based on our sample of respondents, we have found that vessels involved in scallop fishing have been grossing between £200,000 and £400,000 per annum, and have generally employed between three and four crew members. As has been said, few vessels have tied up so far, but some have had to go elsewhere to fish—to the Clyde, or as far south as Cornwall. West coast vessels generally seem to be staying on the west coast rather than going to the North sea, although that is less so for Mallaig-based boats.The exception is the Western Isles, where we are aware of four vessels that are undertaking no work. The total loss of income is estimated to be about £50,000 per month—it is starting to reach significant levels. Seasonal closure in the Uists and Barra runs until 1 November, I think, so that even if the ban were lifted today, the grounds in the southern islands would not be immediately accessible.As has been said, the profitability of vessels has declined because of the need to travel to different areas, which results in extra costs in fuel and in crew travel time, less familiarity with waters, and pressure on volumes as other people fish the same grounds. I echo many of the points that Doug made about aquaculture. The point about aquaculture is that producers do not have the option to fish for something else. Geographically, the impact is focused on many of the producers around Skye. We have identified about 23 jobs in scallop diving between Skye and Mallaig. Some of those people have turned to alternative species, such as razor fish. However, others have experienced a loss of turnover, despite the fact that dived scallops normally attract a price premium in the marketplace.We have consulted about 14 fish processors in the area and found that the impact of the ban is variable. Three companies have shed staff, reduced hours or lost staff as a result of the ban. There is concern about the loss of skilled staff, who might be difficult to get back once the ban has been lifted. Three other businesses are forecasting job losses by the end of September or early October. We have identified a total of about 20 jobs so far. That might not sound significant but, in a remote area in the Western Isles, for example, three or four jobs are important.Dependency on scallops varies. Some people make occasional sales to the local retail and catering sector, whereas some of the businesses that we interviewed have a 95 per cent dependency. Some of the more dependent processors rely on supplies from the ports with the higher percentage of landings, to which I referred earlier. There are hot spots in the remote parts of the west coast where the impact of the ban has been significant. Processors there have difficulties in sourcing scallops from elsewhere. Transport costs are a main factor in that. It is also difficult to establish new buying networks. The impact seems to be hardest where the processing sites are independent and remote, such as on Mull, on Skye and in the Western Isles.Another factor is the time and cost of developing other avenues, such as prawn processing, coupled with the uncertainty about when the ban will be lifted. That is seen as a constraint by some of the processors. The loss of sales is likely to have a significant impact as a net loss to Scotland plc, as it were, because most of the market for scallops is outside Scotland. We were concerned to find that, among larger multiple retailers, sales of other shellfish species are being lost—that is the halo effect of other disease outbreaks. Multiples try to maintain due diligence where best they can and think that the problems may spread into other shellfish. The multiples do not understand the issues but want to be ultra-cautious. On the wider strategic issues, the concern is that the scale of losses will increase if the ban stays in place; scallop processors will be increasingly affected and pressure will be placed on the nephrops quota. There could also be long-term loss of activity, with fishermen, processors and—more important—customers withdrawing from the scallop sector. There is very little confidence and re-entry into markets is a concern. There seems to be more confidence where markets are local and personal contacts are well established but, as I mentioned, the multiples could be a long-term problem. So far, the impact on transport companies appears to be relatively slight. However, the impact is likely to be greater where the processors also do third-party haulage, taking back loads or empty loads into remote locations. If they are not getting product out, the economics of transport in remote island communities becomes an issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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      "ID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 578950,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. If no clarification is required, we will move directly to hear from Mr Neil Fleming of the rural affairs department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 578961,
      "EditedText": "Is there anyone who can comment specifically on that—Dr Davies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 578971,
      "EditedText": "It would not be at all easy. We have considered approaches to the problem. I think that the approach that we would use would be to employ numerical models that reconstruct water movements along the west coast of Scotland. We would introduce the levels of nitrogen from fish farms to the models and examine the impact that that would have on the dynamics of phytoplankton. That is not a trivial task, but it can be done, although not in a short time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 578979,
      "EditedText": "It would not, and events have borne that out. As I said, experience here and abroad has shown that scallops are slow to get rid of these toxins. The affected areas have been closed for more than three months. Our monitoring them more frequently would make no difference to when they can be opened. Based on our knowledge of scallops' slow depuration rates and the fact that the toxin levels were reasonably high, we were able to estimate that it would be some time before the areas could be opened. I do not think that by putting our resources into examining a wider area we have delayed the opening of the areas that are currently closed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 578983,
      "EditedText": "I simply wanted the difference of view clarified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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      "ID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 578972,
      "EditedText": "While we are discussing research and concerns regarding levels of research, I would like to ask John Davies if he is satisfied that there are enough resources to research ASP adequately. Can he further confirm whether the Scottish Executive has—in light of the current crisis—injected any extra resources into addressing the problem? If not, has Dr Davies or his department sought any extra resources for additional research and what was the response?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 579007,
      "EditedText": "We are interested in the science, but the reason for today's investigation is the impact on coastal communities of the current ban on scallop fishing. One of the key messages from the industry is that it thinks that there is a strong case for compensation, so we must spend time talking about that issue.My question was whether the Executive related its policy on ASP to a policy to award £9 million compensation to the salmon industry. I understand that the source of neither disease has been fully proven. Can the industry representatives indicate what form of compensation they are seeking?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 579030,
      "EditedText": "Fair enough. I feel a parliamentary question coming on."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C579005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 579005,
      "EditedText": "I would like to take a different line and agree with Mr Fleming. We should not move the problem on to another area by opening other fisheries. We would only have to deal with the problem again.I want to know how we should interpret the European Union directive. Can we interpret it in a way that would allow Mr McLeod to move his scallops around rather than harvest them? Can we interpret it in a way that would allow people to harvest scallops but to dispose of the parts that were poisonous?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.950035+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John MacAlister (Scottish Fishermen's Federation): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 578934,
      "EditedText": "There are eight main issues that we want to raise for consideration. My first point concerns general principles. The federation is anxious to ensure consumer safety and confidence in all shellfish products of Scotland's sea fisheries. In the market place, Scottish scallops have a deservedly high reputation which the federation wishes to preserve and enhance. For all those reasons, the federation is more than willing to co-operate and comply with scientific assessment and, where necessary, with closure programmes occasioned by the incidence of any form of toxicity in the scallop stock.My next point is about monitoring. Fisheries extend to the majority of the country's coastline. Members will appreciate that the scale of the monitoring task is extensive, as it includes the mainland and the islands. That is why more resources must be made available. The Scottish Fishermen's Federation seeks assurances on that point for the reasons that we have set out and reassurance that the scientific services have adequate resources for monitoring fishing.I would now like to touch on the issue of testing for the amnesic shellfish poisoning toxin. Testing has been carried out only for the past two years and it is still being developed. We feel that there is a great need for it to be developed.It is important to ensure that international best practice is being implemented by the scientific service. It is also essential that test results are evaluated and published with the minimum delay. We have had to wait long periods for results, and no fishing operation or fish processor can conduct its business if it does not know what the situation is.Test results must be published without delay—there have been examples of test results being published 14 days after the samples have been taken. There will clearly be a risk to consumers and damage to products' reputations if fisheries remain open when the toxin is present at dangerous levels. It is important to reassure the public and the fishermen that resources are available to allow a response to the risks within a reasonable time.The next point is about closure policy. Some care must be taken to ensure that wider conservation measures are not compromised when closure orders are made. Fishermen will, of course, leave a closed area and direct their fishing effort elsewhere while the closure remains in place. It would, nevertheless, be unacceptable if significant areas remained closed after the stock had been tested and declared free of toxins.We feel that great caution should be taken when only one small area is open. The fishing activity that goes on in that area from a large fleet of vessels can cause damage. We have learned from scientific reports and our experience of paralytic shellfish poisoning in the North sea. It is vital that we establish who can make the decision officially to reopen a fishery and the bases on which that decision will be made. The policy must be developed in conjunction with the industry.I would now like to say something about diversion of effort. A significant proportion of scallop fishermen have appropriate licences and equipment to pursue other species. However, others do not have such flexibility. While there can be no question of licence relaxation, it would seem appropriate that scientists should give priority to dedicated scallop vessels in awarding charters for monitoring programmes.Although existing European regulations do not foresee the payment of compensation for loss of earnings in current circumstances, from the draft regulation for financial support for the fishing industry that is due to be implemented at the beginning of next year, it would appear that such payments are being considered. Consideration should be given to making payments in cases of genuine hardship. Apart from giving fishermen parity with other primary production industries, relief would ensure an even greater commitment to managing toxicity problems in the shellfish industry.Technical conservation and effort limitation measures, which would control pressure on stocks, are being examined and will be set out in the consultation paper that the Government will present to the industry this month. It is important that the measures should have regard to the disruption to the fishery caused by the outbreak and the economic effects of any future similar problems, bearing in mind the nature of the causes. We should be careful about how we proceed with the conservation and technical measures that will appear in the consultation paper. It must be borne in mind that when areas are closed, difficulties will arise.Amnesic shellfish poisoning is a naturally occurring toxin and must have been present in stocks before the current testing policy was implemented. That raises the question: how long has ASP been present without being detected? No ill health has so far resulted from eating scallops in the UK. Very little is known or has been communicated to fishermen about how, where and when ASP occurs. The extent of the current outbreak is alarming, and fishermen are anxious to ensure that a major research programme is undertaken to establish how outbreaks can be foreseen. The fishermen have great doubts about the current research, and it is important that it should be questioned. We need to consider, for example, how much time has elapsed between the samples being taken from the water and the results being presented to the public.That is all that I would like to say. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 578935,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Would members like anything that Mr MacAlister has said clarified?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 578933,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I do not think that any clarification is required about the issues raised by Mr Hermse.We will move on to Mr John MacAlister of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 578937,
      "EditedText": "There are two points—the time scale and the nature of the research. We feel that the research needs to be examined more carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 578938,
      "EditedText": "Are you questioning the need for this ban?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 578943,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 578959,
      "EditedText": "Does that information come from the industry itself? We do not know the answer to the question, but you should."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 578948,
      "EditedText": "Thank you Mr McLeod. We will move on to Mr Bob Stubbs of Highlands and Islands Enterprise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Neil Fleming (Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 578951,
      "EditedText": "At present, the Scottish Executive administers 214 over-10-metre vessels that are licensed to fish for scallops by mechanical dredge in addition to other species appropriate to the terms of their licence. All vessels of 10 m or less may fish for scallops. The value of scallops and queen scallops landed into Scotland by UK vessels in 1998 was around £17 million.I have circulated to the committee a couple of graphs and a table, which give a wider overview of the value of the scallop-fishing industry in Scotland over a period of 18 months prior to the ban coming into force.On graph 1, the top line shows the total value of scallop landings, with monthly values varying between £1 million and £1.8 million. The average value of a tonne of scallops is between £1,500 and £1,700. That total value figure is made up of the value of scallops from the ban area and from all other areas. A key point to make here is that the fishery is year round. The periods January to March and October to December inclusive represented almost £4 million of the £7.6 million of west coast scallops landed—that is more than 50 per cent. Graph 2 shows that, in the first half of the year—before the ban—returns from outwith the area were consistently higher than average and those from within the affected area were lower. The latter may be due to the good prawn fishing that was a feature of the first half of the year. The value of prawns landed in the first seven months of the year by vessels with an entitlement to scallop dredge was up by 18 per cent compared with the same period in 1998. That reflects what representatives of the industry have been saying about scallopers going into other fisheries. If there are alternative target species, obviously scallop fishermen will switch to them.Table 1 shows that the total value of scallop landings was around £4 million or £5 million per quarter, but that in the quarter before the ban, the landings from within the ban area comprised only about 30 per cent of the total. The ban area is clearly important for local boats, but the scallop fishery, as well as being year round, also has a large geographical spread beyond the ban area. Again, that reiterates what Dr Davies said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Neil Fleming (Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 578952,
      "EditedText": "In the short term, the overall effect of the ban has been reduced by two main factors: the ability of many fishermen to switch to other fisheries, notably prawn fishing, and their ability to go further afield. The impact on fishermen is felt most by those who are the most specialised in terms of gear and by those who cannot go further afield. A large area has been affected by the ban, but the scallop grounds around Scotland's coasts are very extensive.On the processing side, our information accords closely with what we have just heard from Highlands and Islands Enterprise. Many processors have moved into other lines, such as prawn processing and packing, but that, too, is coming under pressure because of recent poor prawn fishing. Larger processors have found it possible to get supplies, but some smaller ones have found it more difficult both to get supplies and to change patterns in their factories.Independent west coast processors have been hit hardest, especially in the Western Isles, where there have been lay-offs of both full-time and part-time staff. For example, small operators in the Uists have had great difficulty in finding supplies, resulting in lay-offs of the casual workers who are often brought on to the lines at this time of year for scallops.In terms of management measures, with the mixed nature of the west coast fisheries, movement out of scallops and into other shellfish will have implications—on west coast nephrops quotas, for example. Our quota managers are monitoring that situation.We have had a request to open areas that are, under the Inshore Fishing (Scotland) Act 1984, closed to scallop fishing seasonally. However, the continued high levels of ASP have overtaken that request in the short term. We also have to consider such requests against the possible impact on other sectors of the industry.The information that the department has on the impact on the industry accords closely with what we have heard both from the industry and from Highlands and Islands Enterprise. The biggest general medium-term concern has been the retention of markets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 578953,
      "EditedText": "I propose that we progress to questioning. I shall allow lines of questioning to be pursued by individual committee members, and questions can be put to any member of the panel."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C578956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 578956,
      "EditedText": "I return to the original question. ASP was identified as a particular toxin only after 1987, when there was a large toxic event in Canada and people did not know the cause. Research that was carried out after that event identified the substance domoic acid, which is now labelled as the ASP toxin. It took time but, in 1997, the EU directives on shellfish hygiene and toxin levels made monitoring mandatory. We jumped the gun a bit and started test monitoring for domoic acid in 1996, which is why I said that we first found it in that year. It had undoubtedly been there before that, but had never been measured.Doug McLeod touched on why, previously, people had not been ill through eating scallops. Most people eat the muscle from the scallops and probably not the gonad. The muscle has almost no toxin in it; the toxin is in other bits of the scallop. Unfortunately, the EU directive is written in such a way that what must be taken into account is whether any edible parts of the scallop contain toxin. That may be why people have not suffered in the past, because most people eat only the muscle. I do not know whether my colleagues agree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 578964,
      "EditedText": "It is a fine line to walk. Along with my colleagues, I believe that it is essential to safeguard consumer health. I am not yet convinced that the sampling and test analysis that we carry out in the UK is on a par with that of our European colleagues. There is probably a case for saying that those procedures are stricter in the UK than elsewhere. Given, as we have pointed out, that we have not had any problems with ASP before, we are perhaps over-egging the pudding. We are unnecessarily penalising our industry.My submission is that, in view of that feeling, we should be able to lift the constraints, where possible, as quickly as possible. Yet, despite the fact that, as I said before, the desk instructions on ASP and DSP from the ministry in England and Wales and north of the border state that the constraint should be lifted once two clear samples—or two samples that are below the action level—have been detected, the Scottish Executive has consistently refused to give me written assurance that those rules apply for ASP. Twice, I have been assured verbally that that is the case. Both times I have been told that I would be sent an assurance in writing, but still I have not got it. Now, a second arm of the Scottish Executive has said that it will only lift the ban in its entirety. In other words, it does not matter if farms are free of the toxins—as long as there is ASP in samples from the north Minch, the blanket ban will stay. That is what I mean when I say that the FEPA closure order is a blunt instrument that is interpreted in different fashions within the Scottish Executive. I look to this committee to resolve the matter. I would hope that that could happen in a way that is positive for the shellfish farming sector, but in any case the situation needs to be clarified, as there is confusion. The confusing signals come not only from the Scottish Executive—this is a new field and we are all still learning—but are being given at UK level. For example, the first item of research on human health aspects in the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food's review of fish and shellfish cultivation and health, completed this winter, mentions that research on toxic blooms could help establish their pattern of development, including their origin. That is what we need to know. Where is the stuff coming from? Why is it suddenly appearing? That is why, in my submission, I said that the Scottish Executive spokesperson who said that no more research would be done because we know where the toxins are coming from and what sets this problem off is incorrect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 578965,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the suggestion that some people feel that research should be done independently rather than by FRS. The Scallop Dredging Association document suggests that the causes of the toxins may have been covered up by Government scientific institutions. Why would that be? Where does that suspicion come from? What would motivate a scientific institution to cover up what it knows about the causes of toxicity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hermse: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 578966,
      "EditedText": "Several bodies have suggested that FRS, as a Government institution, is told which information to give out and which not to give out, possibly to protect those who are causing the pollution that may exacerbate the production of toxins in algal blooms. We want to stop the rumours by saying that all information about the problem should be in the public domain and available to the industry. As for where the rumours come from, they come from interested parties within the industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 578967,
      "EditedText": "How did FRS respond to the rumours?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 578975,
      "EditedText": "We have a contract to do the monitoring in England and Wales, which is paid for by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and is separate from our contract with the rural affairs department. An institute such as the FRS has always worked on the principle that when an event such as this or such as the Braer disaster occurs, we switch resources from research programmes into monitoring programmes, which means that research programmes progress more slowly. The department does not come up with new money, but it accepts that some of the research being done for it will slow down as we switch resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 578978,
      "EditedText": "Is your monitoring constrained? You said earlier that you are concentrating on investigating areas that are still open, which implies that you are not doing so much monitoring in the areas that are closed. If you had more resources to put into monitoring, would it be possible to lift the order in parts of the area sooner?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 578982,
      "EditedText": "My colleague Godfrey Howard, who runs the sampling programme, has written me a note to say that no scallops from aquaculture sites have met the criteria for opening. I do not know whether we can resolve this here, but clearly there has been a misunderstanding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 578985,
      "EditedText": "We have been involved for the past couple of years in validating the test to which the association refers. The test kit is made by a company in Canada and is based on an assay that a member of our staff developed several years ago. We are interested in introducing a commercial kit of this kind for two reasons: first, it would provide much quicker results; secondly, it would obviate the need for the mouse bioassay, which is the current test. However, we have run a series of tests on the Canadian kit for two years and it is not reliable enough at the moment. We are helping the manufacturers to overcome the problems, but until the kit is reliable we cannot sanction its use in place of the current tests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fleming: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 578991,
      "EditedText": "A fair amount of money is already being spent. As Dr Davies said, a lot of time and effort has been spent on the problem this year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578992",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 578992,
      "EditedText": "I am being told that people cannot hear you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 579003,
      "EditedText": "We may well be straying into areas of policy that are outwith Mr Fleming's area of responsibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fleming: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 579006,
      "EditedText": "On the second point, I understand that the directive does not allow for differentiation between the different parts, so that option does not exist. However, consideration may be given to allowing movement between aquaculture sites under controlled conditions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17624,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 579008,
      "EditedText": "As a point of clarification, the £9 million was not given as compensation to the salmon farming industry. It was given for restructuring or for new initiatives—it was not classed as compensation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 579017,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it does. However, there is a great need to examine this more closely. We are approaching the year 2000—this year is gone now—and we do not want the problem to be shoved aside when the ban is lifted. There is room in the article for consideration of the catching and processing sectors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579020",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 579020,
      "EditedText": "I have a question on markets. I notice on the graphs that were distributed that the total number of shellfish being landed has stayed much the same and that the markets that are normally supplied from the banned areas are still being supplied. Given that the banned areas will have been cut off for some weeks, how difficult will it be to get those markets back?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hermse: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 579022,
      "EditedText": "The industry could be compensated through an advertising campaign, although I do not mean something like: \"Buy your scallops now—they're clear of poison.\" Laughter. I mean a proper, co-ordinated advertising campaign to try to get the markets back up to where they were. We must be careful when we are quoting figures on landings from each area, as they may be slightly erroneous. Much of the scallop fleet is nomadic by nature, landing in different areas. Some of the vessels that have been displaced from the Scottish fishery have travelled down to the south-west of England and into the North sea and made landings there, which has put added pressure on those fishing grounds. The article that John MacAlister referred to relates to the Agenda 2000 European aid package, which provides compensation in areas of biological disaster and so on. Notwithstanding that, if, as Mr Stubbs suggested, we call the compensation reallocation or readjustment, we might be able to identify areas where compensation should be forthcoming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 579023,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for clearing that matter up. I was under the impression that some of the market gap had been filled from foreign waters—if I can put it like that. However, I can see that the harvesting area has shifted. Mr Hermse talked about getting information on the internet and Dr Davies mentioned a Canadian outbreak. Someone else mentioned the international scope of this problem. My question relates to the one asked by my colleague Alasdair Morgan. As opposed to the contemplation of what is, I suppose, the comparatively small issue of the Scottish problem, is there much international co-operation in monitoring and in research to discover a worldwide solution to this problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fleming: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 579029,
      "EditedText": "I answered the other question first because I did not know the origins of that policy. I believe that it is established Government policy that compensation is not payable on consequential losses caused by natural events. I paused because I thought that people around the table were about to make the point that the infectious salmon anaemia payment was not compensation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 579032,
      "EditedText": "Mr Fleming's evidence suggested that the issue of compensation was not exclusively a fisheries matter. Does the Executive's approach to compensation apply equally to agriculture?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 579036,
      "EditedText": "I feel that we should draw Parliament's attention to issues such as monitoring and research. There is a need for further work to get to the roots of the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 579037,
      "EditedText": "We have heard a broad explanation of the problem and have gained a reasonable understanding of the difficulties that face the industry because of ASP. I will ask the clerks to prepare a report to be circulated to committee members for approval before it is put before Parliament. The report will contain much of the information that has been gleaned from this discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 579039,
      "EditedText": "Because health is the paramount issue—as we will all concede—we have avoided discussing any health matters. Our prime concern has been the effects on the industry and we have restricted our comments to that subject.I will ask the clerks to prepare the report into the industry issues raised by the problem of ASP, which will be considered by committee members and then placed before Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 579040,
      "EditedText": "What will the procedure for doing that be? Will the report come to us as individuals or will it be an agenda item for discussion at the next meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 579043,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ID": 17625,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 579045,
      "EditedText": "I hope that this item will not take long, but we must address it because we are the lead committee on the statutory instrument relating to plant health. We are taking this so seriously because it is important that, as the lead committee, we are aware of statutory instruments as they pass through our hands.This statutory instrument will stay in place as a negative instrument unless we move that it be deleted. There has been no motion for annulment and there is no reason why there should be, so it is unlikely that annulment will happen.Given the recent experience of other committees in Westminster, it is extremely important that we should understand such instruments before we pass them. I hope that in future we handle similar orders fairly quickly, but on this first occasion we have invited experts along to go over the paper so that we understand it and know what we are approving.We have with us Dr Jane Chard of the Scottish Agricultural Science Agency and Mr Charlie Greenslade from the Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17625,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Charlie Greenslade (Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 579046,
      "EditedText": "Carol Brattey from the rural affairs department is also here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ID": 17625,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 579047,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. We will ask you to go over the instrument that is before us so that we will understand what we will be talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ID": 17625,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 579056,
      "EditedText": "At this stage, I must put the question to the committee: does the committee agree that the Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999 need not be drawn to the attention of the Parliament? Members are agreed. That information will be communicated to the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ID": 17625,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 579060,
      "EditedText": "That takes care of the statutory instrument regarding potatoes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry)(Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 17626,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ID": 17626,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 579061,
      "EditedText": "This committee is not the lead committee on this order. I am told that the Transport and the Environment Committee will meet tomorrow, and we have been asked to make comments on the document to be passed to that committee at that meeting. Does anyone have any comments on the statutory instrument? Is there any comment that members feel would be appropriate to pass on to the Transport and the Environment Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry)(Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 17626,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 579063,
      "EditedText": "Do members feel that we need to read through the document? If not, I think it is appropriate to report that this committee does not feel the need to pass comments on this issue to the Transport and the Environment Committee. That will be the comment that is passed on from this committee.That brings us to the end of the agenda. There has been a great deal of publicity in the news regarding the beef-on-the-bone ban. I do not raise that as an issue. I merely note that we should monitor the situation so that the visit of the chief medical officer, who will come before this committee at its next meeting in response to an item that was put on the agenda by Mike Rumbles at a previous meeting, will be best exploited for the good of the health of the nation and the industry that has been affected.Noting that we have no other competent business, is there anything else that anyone would like to raise that is relevant to the business of today's meeting? If not, I declare this meeting closed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
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      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:02"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578928",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Alex Johnstone): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 578928,
      "EditedText": "Ladies and gentlemen, it is a pleasure to welcome you all. For the benefit of those in the public seats, headsets are available under the chairs, and the sound for the meeting is on channel 1. If you can work out how the headsets work, they might be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr John Davies (Marine Laboratory, Aberdeen): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 578930,
      "EditedText": "I was asked to outline the background to the problem in 10 minutes. You will know that, periodically, bivalve shellfish such as scallops and mussels become toxic to humans. That is because they feed on microscopic algae that are toxic from time to time. The toxin does not harm the shellfish, but is harmful to mammals and birds that eat the shellfish.The toxins are natural. You will know that some plants in your gardens, such as daffodils or crocus bulbs, produce toxins. If you eat them, you become very ill. The same is true of plants in the sea. The plants in this case are microscopic algae, phytoplankton. Occasionally, especially in the spring and summer, they grow so quickly that they cause blooms that discolour the water. You will have heard of red tides, which are a huge bloom of algae in the water. Shellfish poisoning is not a new phenomenon: the European explorers of north America were among the first to document it after eating shellfish that were taken from water that was discoloured by phytoplankton.Around 40 of the thousands of species of phytoplankton are toxic. In Scotland, three toxic species cause problems. The first is Alexandrium, which is associated with paralytic shellfish poisoning. As the name suggests, it is a nerve toxin that can cause paralysis and death.The second species is dinophysis, which causes diarrhetic shellfish poisoning. That gives people diarrhoea and is less important.The third species, which we have the problem with at the moment, is the pseudo-nitzschia phytoplankton. It causes amnesic shellfish poisoning, which gives people numbness, nausea and—in high doses—loss of short-term memory. In very high doses, it can kill people.Shellfish pick up the toxins when they filter the algae out of the water to eat them. We do not find toxic algae in the water all the time. They are toxic in Scotland only during a short season in the spring and summer, hence the old adage that tells us not to eat shellfish unless there is an \"r\" in the month.Most of the problems in Scotland concern paralytic shellfish poisoning. For example, last year almost the whole of the Orkney scallop fishery was closed from July until March because of paralytic shellfish poisoning. That is not a new event, either. In 1995, the whole of the east coast of Scotland, from Fair isle right down to Bell rock, was closed to scallop fishing because of paralytic shellfish poisoning. Although this is the first time that we have closed such a big area because of amnesic shellfish poisoning, the toxins and closures are not new.ASP, the condition that we are concerned with today, was first detected in Scotland in 1996. That is when we first looked for it, as that was when it was included in the European directive that drives the monitoring programme. It was detected in Shetland in 1996 and each year since then it has been detected in small doses on both the west and east coasts. This year, the situation is different. We do not know why. This year, there has been almost no problem with paralytic shellfish poisoning—which is normally the most troublesome—but there has been a tremendous problem with amnesic shellfish poisoning. The cause is probably a minor climatic change that has made conditions better for one species of bacteria than another, but that is pure supposition on my part.I do not know whether committee members have copies of the diagrams, but I thought that it would be easier to let them see where the monitoring stations are than to try to describe their positions. We collect samples of both water and shellfish, in which procedure we are greatly helped by environmental health officers and the shellfish farmers. In the summer, they send us samples weekly; in the winter they send us samples fortnightly. We analyse the water samples that are sent to us for the phytoplankton that I have been talking about, and when we see a large number of a particular species that we know causes problems, we step up the monitoring programme. We analyse the shellfish flesh for each of the three toxins that I described. The combination of that information is used to effect closures when necessary.The offshore sampling process for scallops is slightly different. On the third diagram, committee members can see the huge area round Scotland from which scallops are landed in Scotland. The sampling of that area is carried out partly from our own research cruisers and partly by sampling scallops as they are landed from fishing vessels. The scallops are analysed for each of the three toxins that I described. When there is an event of any size—when the presence of any of those toxins exceeds the limit—we extend that sampling programme. At the inshore sites, we take more samples of different species and try to delineate the area that is involved, so that any closures will be as small as possible. At offshore sites, the same happens: we take samples from a wider area, to try to find the boundaries of the event, so that any closure is only as large as it needs to be.The test for amnesic shellfish poisoning is a chemical test—it is basically a matter of extracting the flesh of the shellfish that are supplied to us and testing it chemically for the level of toxins. We then compare the levels to standards that are set by the European Union; in fact, they are international standards. For ASP, the standard is 20µg of domoic acid, which is the toxin, per gram of flesh. That standard was set after 1987, when there was a large outbreak of ASP in Canada that killed some people. That level is reasonable, as it was set fairly recently using modern toxicological information and data. For paralytic shellfish poisoning, the level is set at 80µg per 100g of flesh. That level was set several decades ago in the USA, where there is a long history of problems with PSP. The expert judgment would be that, if anything, that level is probably on the high side. It is unlikely that, if it was reviewed, it would come down. For the third kind of poisoning, diarrhetic shellfish poisoning, the limit is for none of the toxin to be present. The levels at which those standards are set are probably reasonable. Our laboratory is the UK reference laboratory for algal toxins within the European Commission area, so we have fairly direct input into decision making on those matters. It is unlikely, however, that we will be able to change the limits.Finally, members will be aware that the recent problem started in May in scallops from around Skye and that since then, through June and July, the whole of the west coast has been closed. We have been asked why we do not sample more frequently, because that might make it possible for the ban to be lifted more quickly. We have limited resources, as you can imagine, and we decided that it would be better to spread those resources to look more widely to ensure that the areas from which scallops were being taken did not have levels of toxin above the limit. Our experience and experience in America show that scallops are slow in getting rid of the toxin, particularly when they have high levels of toxin, as the scallops in question had. The levels were anything from five to 10 times the limit, so it is not as if they were just above the limit. We knew that it would take several months for the scallops to get rid of toxin at that level, so we felt that it was better to put our resources into looking more widely, rather than more frequently, at the area that was closed.The most recent results, from last week, show a drop in toxin levels in the North Minch, and we hope that that continues. However, I am afraid that the South Minch and the Sound of Jura are still above the 20µg limit, so the closure will have to remain in the meantime. I might refer later to the third diagram that I supplied, if we talk about fish farms and their possible involvement. As it is, I have had my 10 minutes, so I shall rest there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 578939,
      "EditedText": "No, we are not questioning the need for the ban; we fully understand the need for the ban. We are questioning the research and the way in which it is done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578942",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 578942,
      "EditedText": "You are not questioning the methodology, but you are worried about the length of time before results are available and the accuracy of those results?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 578944,
      "EditedText": "We will now move on to Mr Doug McLeod, of the Association of Scottish Shellfish Growers."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C578958",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 578958,
      "EditedText": "One point that I would like to raise in relation to other countries is that it is only this month that the European Commission announced that it was sending an option to the French over their failure to observe two directives on water quality. The action represents a second stage of infringement under the Shellfish Waters Directive (79/923 EEC). We raise the question: is the same form of regulation being applied in the UK as in other parts of Europe?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C578947",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "EditedText": "Yes. When I raised that point a couple of months ago, it was hypothetical and I was looking forward to when the outbreak of ASP would begin to end; when the tide would start to withdraw to the deeps of the Minches. I believe that that is now happening.You will notice that the first page of results from last week's samples are mostly in double figures below the action level—18, 15, or something like that—although a couple are above the action level. They are very different from the fishing results on the second page, which are still up in the hundreds. It is essential that it should be recognised that fishing and aquaculture have different environments. The effort of this whole summer has been dealt with from the fisheries point of view.Aquaculture was not mentioned once in the minutes of the meeting at which you discussed amnesic shellfish poisoning. I see that there is an official present from the fisheries section of the Scottish Executive rural affairs department, but there is nobody from the aquaculture section. We are the invisible participant at the banquet. We must be recognised, as we have problems that are different from those of the fishing sector."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578954",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
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      "EditedText": "I would like to ask about international comparisons. In the first presentation, we heard that these algal blooms date back several centuries, if not further. We also heard that the problem with ASP is relatively new, in comparison with the other kinds of poisoning. If the problem is not restricted to Scotland, how much can we learn from other countries? If something can be learnt from other countries, where the experience is similar or different, there is no point in our trying simply to reinvent the wheel. What do people's experience of the problem lead them to think?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C578955",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hermse: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 578955,
      "EditedText": "I have undertaken an intensive study, through the internet and other media, into the problems in other countries. As a result of that research, our association has been asked to present a paper on the practicalities of dealing with ASP at the third international conference on shellfish restoration, which will take place in Ireland. We hope to glean more information about the research that has been done then. A prototype data management system has been set up in the Gulf of Mexico, and a similar initiative might stand this country in good stead. Other initiatives that we could use are being implemented in other countries. I am concerned that the Fisheries Research Services agency is slightly underfunded for what it has to do at the moment. It needs further funding to continue its research."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 578957,
      "EditedText": "I want to pursue the international comparison. When there are similar situations abroad—bearing in mind that there are obvious differences in current—are the affected areas as big and are the bans lifted as quickly? Are there any valid comparisons that can be made with other countries?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C578962",
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 578962,
      "EditedText": "I do not know the answer to your question, but I do know that earlier this year we had a visit from the EU in which it audited our monitoring programme for algal toxins. I am pleased to say that we came through with flying colours. Presumably, the EU also audits other EU countries, although I do not know the outcome of those audits."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 578963,
      "EditedText": "I was impressed by Mr McLeod's contribution. Reading through the submission, I am interested to know whether he feels that the EU regulations are being misinterpreted. The submission talks about the ban on scallop fishing, not harvesting, which is perhaps the point that you are making. I am a little unclear. Are you saying that we are being too officious in our interpretation of the EU directive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 578968,
      "EditedText": "We responded with some difficulty. I can say categorically that nothing is being held back. If Mr Hermse is alluding to the question of whether fish farms are involved in causing algal blooms the answer is that we do not know, which is why we have not made any definitive statements. In the current case, where the algal bloom covers pretty well the whole of the west coast of Scotland, we have examined the nutrients coming out of fish farms, because the theory is that nitrogen nutrients are excreted from fish farms in large quantities. There is no doubt about that. Nitrogen limits the growth of algae. Two of the toxins contain nitrogen, so there is a plausible link.When we examine the water flowing up the west coast of Scotland—which is made up of Atlantic water and water flowing out of the Irish sea—we see that it flows very slowly up the coast. Tidal excursion pumps it into and out of sea lochs and the water from the sea lochs is exchanged—usually in two or three days—with water from the main body of water that flows up through the Minches.The amount of nitrogen that is produced by all the fish farms adds something like 1 per cent to the natural amount of nitrogen in the water flowing up the west coast of Scotland. It is difficult to see how that amount could make a significant difference. In this instance it is unlikely that fish farmers have been a contributory factor.We have had ASP outbreaks on the east coast of Scotland as frequently as on the west coast, but there are no fish farms on the east coast.The Canadians experienced a big outbreak in 1987. They also have fish farms. They looked at the levels of ASP close to fish farms and the levels in areas away from fish farms and they found that there was no association of high levels of ASP with fish farms.All the evidence is circumstantial and the balance of the circumstantial evidence does not suggest to me that fish farms are responsible. One cannot, however, give absolutes in this area. I agree with my colleagues from the shellfishing industry and growers that this is an area in which more research should be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 578969,
      "EditedText": "There is an element of doubt about fish farming. I take what Dr Davies says on board. We have called loudly for that to be cleared up. We must have a starting point, but I feel that everybody from the commercial side of the industry to the shellfish farmers has doubts.We need research now to clear up the speculation that is going on in the industry. We have heard from all sources here today that we must remove the speculation and doubt that has been transferred to the consumer.We must start by clearing the fin fish farms and get out in the open the point that they do not affect the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 578970,
      "EditedText": "How easy would it be to prove that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 578973,
      "EditedText": "We must make a clear distinction between research and monitoring. A lot of extra money has been spent this year on monitoring the problem. That was not new money, so spending it has resulted in other programmes that we have been carrying out being slowed down. Resources have been switched to this problem. The money has gone towards monitoring and dealing with the problem on the ground. Research is different.Because we have never had a big ASP outbreak before, the research will come after the event. We plan to carry out a programme aimed not just at ASP, but at algal blooms and toxins in general as they are a problem for the shellfish industry. We are part of a worldwide consortium of researchers in this area. The problem is worldwide and is so huge that it would be unrealistic to think that our institute alone can solve it. We will get to the bottom of the problem only by continuing to be part of such an international consortium of scientists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 578977,
      "EditedText": "Samples are treated on a rota, as you would expect. We cannot stop our obligation to MAFF to monitor areas in England and Wales if there is a crisis in Scotland. We try to keep all the balls in the air—with great difficulty. The number of samples we can do is limited by people and equipment. Organisations such as ours are geared to deal with the norm, not with emergencies. We try to shift as many resources as possible to deal with an emergency of this kind—often from the research areas—and that is what we have done in this case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 578980,
      "EditedText": "Have I misinterpreted this, or are you disagreeing with Mr McLeod? You are saying that you do not envisage the ban's being lifted in those areas, whereas he seemed to be saying the exact opposite."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 578981,
      "EditedText": "I thought that Mr McLeod was asking why, given that some of the scallop farmers have evidence that their scallops have been below the toxin limit for two consecutive sampling periods, the ban was not being lifted. Is that correct?Mr McLeod indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 578989,
      "EditedText": "I think that my colleague would not have said that the movement of water up the west coast was less. I think that he was probably referring to the outflow from the Greenland sea. As far as we know, the movement of water up the west coast is pretty much the same as ever. We know that, in the winter—which includes March and April, for our purposes—sea water is four degrees warmer now than it was six years ago. The temperature of the water on the west coast is equivalent to that off the south-west of Ireland. The temperature could change again—it might go back to its previous level—but it is possible that a change such as that would bring about changes in algal growth. We are speculating. I was careful to say that linking the problem to climate change—local, short-term change, not global—is speculative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 578994,
      "EditedText": "Dr Davies made a distinction between the monitoring costs, which have been higher because of the crisis in the industry this summer, and the research. You mentioned that the problem has been a priority this summer but, unless I misunderstood Dr Davies, he was saying that monitoring had been the priority. I am thinking more about the research that needs to be done if we are to get to the root of the problem. Is that covered by this week's budget discussions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fleming: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 578995,
      "EditedText": "I believe that it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 578997,
      "EditedText": "It is all go now. Is your point on a related issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 578998,
      "EditedText": "It is on a budgetary issue. I want to come at this from a different angle: is any consideration being given to compensation for those affected by the ban?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fleming: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 578999,
      "EditedText": "It has never been the policy of Governments to compensate producers for losses that are a consequence of natural events. ASP, PSP and DSP occur naturally and have been known about for many years. Providing compensation would cause practical difficulties. The industry has raised the issue of compensation but, as I say, it has never been our practice. We may have to consider it, but that would be for ministers to do alongside their other priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579001",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fleming: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 579001,
      "EditedText": "Measures such as extending the season under the Inshore Fisheries (Scotland) Act 1984 have to be considered against the overall biology of the fisheries involved and against the lack of a welcome that changes might receive from other sectors in the industry. There is always a knock-on effect. The Scottish Fishermen's Federation did not suggest licence changes. The possibility of offering support in other ways is a new item on the agenda and will be considered against other priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stubbs: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 579010,
      "EditedText": "I was going to make the point that John has made. The infectious salmon anaemia scheme, which we will administer, is not a compensation package. It is for further development of the salmon sector, so the parallel is not exact.A point was made earlier about how SERAD could assist the industry to readjust. Assistance could perhaps be provided, through Highlands and Islands Enterprise, for some market reorientation but not as compensation. Ideally, additional resources would be provided, but we have a finite budget. The ISA scheme is not a compensation package."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 579012,
      "EditedText": "On compensation, article 16 of the proposed EU regulation states:\"1. The Member States may grant compensation to fishermen and owners of vessels for the temporary cessation of activities in the following circumstances:a) in the event of unforeseeable circumstances, particularly those caused by biological factors; the granting of compensation may last for no more than two months per year, or six months over the entire period from 2000-2006. The management authority shall forward suitable scientific proof to the Commission in advance;b) where a fisheries agreement is not renewed, or where it is suspended, for the Community fleets dependent on the arrangement; the granting of the compensation may not last longer than six months; it may be extended by a further six months, provided a conversion plan approved by the Commission is implemented for the fleet concerned\".That gives room for compensation to be considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 579013,
      "EditedText": "The quote related to the period beginning in 2000, so that regulation is not yet in force."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 579016,
      "EditedText": "There is an important distinction between compensation and financial support for restructuring—we have discussed that distinction in relation to salmon farming. Will the producers' organisations respond to that point? In terms of the financial support that they are seeking, does funding for marketing initiatives and other ancillary measures address some of the problems that they have raised?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C579018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 579018,
      "EditedText": "Do you imagine that within that regulation there is sufficient flexibility to allow compensation to the scallop farmer as opposed to the scallop fisherman?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 579019,
      "EditedText": "There should be, as we supply the same market."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAlister: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 579021,
      "EditedText": "We agree that the same volume of scallops has been landed, but that is because the scallop fleet has put greater pressure on areas in which it would not normally operate at this time of year, such as the Firth of Clyde, which has relatively sheltered waters. As has been said, many small vessels are put in danger by venturing out into open waters. The North sea fishery, too, has been put under great pressure by the movement of vessels from the west coast.The market has stayed relatively strong because the French fishery has not opened in September this year—the opening has been put back to October—and the English channel fishery has not produced as much this year as it has in the past, so there is a general scarcity. However, if the French fishery had opened in September, we would have been under even more pressure. At this time of year, most processors usually have an abundance of frozen scallops in stock from the summer fishery; it is frightening to note that this year they do not. This week, I spoke to a processor dealing mainly in frozen scallops, who had talked to many of his colleagues in the industry. Whereas at this time of year he would normally have around 80 tonnes of scallop meat in stock, today he has 4 tonnes. As the year goes on, we will see the effects of market pressure and the damage that has been done by the closure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 579024,
      "EditedText": "In terms of research and interest, yes. There is a harmful algal blooms website and—believe it or not—scientists from all over the world have been very interested in the Scottish problem. People visit the site and add notes, helpful suggestions and so on. On Alex Fergusson's main point, there is a huge international network of scientists who are all working on the same generic problem of algal blooms and toxins. In many areas, that work is related to nutrients, not only from fish farms but from other sources. People are trying to understand whether the incidence of algal blooms—particularly toxic algal blooms—is increasing or whether we are becoming more aware of them because we have better monitoring programmes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 579026,
      "EditedText": "Like all silly questions, that is a very tricky one. I began with the old adage not to eat shellfish unless there was an ‘r' in the month—that was reasonably sound advice. We are in to September, which is the exception that proves the rule. In fairness to our colleagues, I should say that, if possible, they want to be able to prosecute their fishery throughout the year, hence the evolution of the monitoring programme. The aim is to be able to make it work, so that our colleagues can have what they want and we can keep people who eat shellfish safe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C579034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 579034,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it would be useful to invite the minister before the committee, because it is a matter of record that Governments—whether previous Westminster Governments or the current Executive—do not go down the road of compensation; they prefer to restructure and to provide aid to industries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 579035,
      "EditedText": "It is vital to take into account the fact that many of the issues that we have discussed today have a social impact. Perhaps we should consider this subject as part of our investigation into poverty and housing in rural areas. As a final point, does the committee think that we should report on this matter to Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 579041,
      "EditedText": "If it is a formal report by the committee to Parliament, the report should be brought to the committee and voted on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 579042,
      "EditedText": "I can only end this stage of the meeting by expressing the gratitude of all committee members to our witnesses for their presentations and contributions to the discussion. I hope that, when the report becomes available, it will have justified your time and effort in coming here to work with us today. Thank you very much indeed.I propose a two-minute recess so that people who do not want to be present for the rest of the committee's business can leave. Members of the committee are expected to stay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ID": 17625,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greenslade: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 579048,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, convener and ladies and gentlemen. The Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999 further amends the Plant Health (Great Britain) Order 1993 in regard to its application to Scotland. The principal order has already been amended a number of times. Similar amendment instruments are being made in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.The purpose of the amendments is to implement in the UK council directive 98/57/EC of 20 July 1998. That directive relates to the control of Ralstonia solanacearum (Smith) Yabuuchi et al. That organism was previously known as Pseudomonas solanacearum (Smith) Smith. Even micro-organisms can change their names.The directive introduces harmonised measures to deal with this disease across the European Community. Article 1 of the directive summarises the purpose of the directive as being\"to locate the organism and determine its distribution; to prevent its occurrence and spread; and to control it with the aim of eradication.\"Article 12 of the directive requires each member state to bring the provisions into force within national laws by 21 August 1999, and to notify the Commission that that has been done.Ralstonia solanacearum is an organism that causes brown rot in potatoes and bacterial wilt in tomatoes. In Scotland, without wanting to diminish our tomato-growing industry in any way, our principal concern is potatoes and, in particular, our important seed potato industry. A brown rot infection can seriously deplete potato yields and make infected potatoes unusable. To illustrate that, I have circulated a photograph showing the symptoms in a growing plant and in tubers.To put the disease into context, the coming into force of the directive brings to four the number of quarantine diseases of potato that are deemed significant enough to warrant a separate EC directive on their control and eradication. Members may have heard of some of the others. I will not give their Latin names, but their English names are potato wart disease, potato cyst nematode—better known as eelworm—and potato ring rot. Each of the three previous directives has been implemented in Great Britain by the insertion of a separate schedule into the principal instrument—the plant health order. That approach is again being adopted in respect of Ralstonia solanacearum. Unlike the potato cyst nematode and potato wart disease, both of which occur in Scotland, with the former continuing to be a major problem, neither potato ring rot nor potato brown rot is known to occur here. However, they do occur within the European Community and beyond. For example, in recent years, brown rot has occurred in the Netherlands and ring rot in Germany. In southern England, there have been two outbreaks of brown rot in potatoes and two instances of bacterial wilt in tomatoes. Ralstonia solanacearum can subsist in water and in the woody nightshade plant, which is of the same family as the potato and tomato and which is found on many riverbanks in southern England and is known to be an excellent host of the organism. The control and eradication measures, therefore, have to have regard to transmission both by potato tubers and by irrigation with infected water.It must be remembered that the directive and the order that implements it in Scotland are designed to be read together and concern the steps that would be taken to deal with an outbreak of the disease. We do not have brown rot in Scotland and we hope that we will have no reason to bring the measures into practice. I have distributed to members an information sheet that has been made available to the industry in this country and beyond, summarising the measures that we take to keep Scotland free of brown rot. If needed, I can go through it in detail at the end of my contribution. Otherwise, I shall move on to look at the various parts of the instrument.To understand the amendment order fully, one must read it in conjunction with the principal order and with the parent directive. The principal order—the Plant Health (Great Britain) Order 1993, which has been amended many times—already contains provisions enabling official inspectors to enter premises and to take samples of plant material, plant pests or other objects for the purposes of ascertaining whether any scheduled plant pest or disease is present. The amendment order introduces a number of new provisions.Article 2 introduces into the principal order a requirement that no potato shall be planted unless it derives from parent material that has been tested and found to be free of the brown rot organism. Article 3 empowers an official inspector to demarcate zones of infection with the attendant provisions and restrictions that bear on the planting of tubers, the cleaning of machinery and the irrigation of crops. Those provisions and restrictions are set out in a schedule to the order.Article 4 substitutes in the principal order, on each occasion that it occurs, the new name for the organism, Ralstonia solanacearum, instead of the previous name, Pseudomonas solanacearum.Article 5 inserts into the order a new schedule, 13A, which is the meat of the amendment and which details special measures for the control of the organism. Article 6 adds council directive 98/57/EC, which we are implementing here, to the long list of other directives in the area of plant health that supplement the principal EC plant health directive.Would members like me to go through schedule 13A in more detail?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ID": 17625,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Greenslade: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 579050,
      "EditedText": "The schedule has to ascribe various meanings to certain key words and phrases—that is what paragraph 1 does. Members may notice that the true seed of the potato plant and the fruit and seed of the tomato are excluded from the definition of \"specified plant material\". That is because those seeds and fruits do not transmit the disease and therefore do not pose a problem. Paragraph 2 of the schedule prohibits the planting in Scotland of designated affected plant material. It provides for the issue of notices by the rural affairs department specifying how affected material should be disposed of, for example, by incineration, by feeding it to animals following heat treatment, by deep burial in the ground or by processing under certain conditions.Paragraph 3 deals with plant material which is suspected of being contaminated. It provides for the issue of notices on how that material should be dealt with. That applies to ware potatoes for consumption or processing, if there is only a suspicion of a problem. Paragraph 4 provides that notices may require the cleaning or destruction of any machinery, vehicle or packaging material designated as contaminated.Paragraph 5 prohibits the holding or handling of the organism or affected plant material other than where that is authorised for the purposes of scientific research. A licence has to be issued for that. Paragraph 6 enables notices to contain the measures specified in paragraphs 7 to 10 of the schedule to be employed in demarcated zones of infection.Paragraph 7 specifies detailed measures that the notice may require to be taken where a place of production has been designated as contaminated. Those include, for defined periods and depending on the circumstances, measures to deal with volunteer plants: self-sown potatoes, or groundkeepers, as they are sometimes called. Included is a prohibition on the planting of the solanaceous and brassica species. For a certain time thereafter, the planting of solanaceous plants may only be undertaken under certain conditions. In such circumstances, during defined periods, there is an alternative strategy, in which volunteer plants are dealt with and the land is maintained in fallow conditions or put to cereal growing or pasture, or maintained in grass, for seed production. After a further period, that land can be used for growing potatoes or tomatoes, but only under certain conditions.Paragraph 8 deals with circumstances in which there is a complete replacement of the growing medium. In this case, a unit is used to develop the early generations of potatoes, and certain protected crop production takes place, under glass for example. That allows the grower to replace the growing medium completely, and takes away any problem of contamination. The authorisation would be subject to certain additional conditions. Paragraph 9 specifies measures that the notice may require to be taken regarding fields that are adjacent to affected areas. Included, for defined periods, are measures to deal with volunteer plants, the prohibition of planting potatoes or tomatoes and, thereafter, as with other provisions, restrictions on the planting of potatoes and tomatoes. Paragraph 10 specifies that where a place of production has been designated as contaminated, any notice that has already been issued may require machinery to be cleansed and disinfected. It also empowers inspectors to prohibit or control irrigation, which, as we mentioned earlier, is appropriate because brown rot bacteria are waterborne and irrigation is one means of spreading them.Finally, paragraph 11 of the schedule permits the notice specifying measures regarding a zone that has already been demarcated as being probably contaminated. Again, those measures would include the cleaning of machinery and stores and restrictions on the planting and handling of potatoes. Paragraph 11 also prohibits the use of surface water, which has been designated to be contaminated, for irrigation or spraying of specified plant materials, or other host plants, unless there has been authorisation to the contrary. An inspector would only authorise to the contrary in circumstances where they felt that there was no risk of the organism spreading.Paragraph 11 also provides that contaminated liquid waste from premises involved in the processing or packaging of potatoes or tomatoes is to be disposed of under official supervision. That is to reduce the risk of spreading the material from processing plants back into the growing areas.That is what the order does. Does the committee want me to go over the measures that we have in place in Scotland for dealing with the threat of brown rot?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C579055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17625,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 579055,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has pointed out to me that witnesses must have left the meeting before we can progress to make any formal decisions. A problem apparently arose in another committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C579059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17625,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 579059,
      "EditedText": "Oh, they must move out of the position of being able to give evidence. That is fair enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C579062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry)(Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 17626,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ID": 17626,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 579062,
      "EditedText": "I have looked at the document, as have other colleagues, I am sure. It seems sensible to include deforestation as well as other changes under the consents that are required by the environmental impact assessment requirements. It seems to do that in a balanced way. The fact that there have been objections from people who felt that the requirements were going too far, or not far enough, suggests that those requirements are not far wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C579064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry)(Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 17626,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 579064,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:34."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:34.641889+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 578984,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask about the test that the Scallop Dredging Association mentions in its submission, which gives results in 10 minutes. If local fishermen were to use that test, would that provide your organisation with more specific findings and make it possible to cut down the large blanket areas to which the ban extends?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.950035+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 578986,
      "EditedText": "Is your research priority to examine the causes of amnesic shellfish poisoning or to develop a better testing system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.950035+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 578974,
      "EditedText": "It would make sense to have a quicker turnaround period for samplings from Scottish waters. However, your institute has to deal with the rest of the UK at the same time, which must have a bearing on your resources. Have any extra resources been allocated to deal with Scottish samplings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Shellfish Ban",
      "HeadingID": 17624,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17624,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 579002,
      "EditedText": "What are the roots of the Executive's policy on compensation? Whose policy is it? Has it been inherited and, if so, when was it first established? How does the policy relate to the £9 million that was awarded in compensation to salmon farmers? I am not an expert on this—perhaps John Davies can contribute here—but why would there be compensation for ISA but not for ASP?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17625,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 579052,
      "EditedText": "I found that statement very useful in understanding the statutory instrument. However, one way forward might be to have that statement before the committee meeting when we first receive the statutory instrument. At that stage, if any member had questions that they wanted to put to officials they could notify the clerk, and representatives could be invited to the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C579054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3222
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 17625,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 579054,
      "EditedText": "It would save time, both for us and for the department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:20.3733413+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 520346,
      "EditedText": "The point is that, in the sheriff courts, people can do their own writs as long as they have specific pieces of information on them. They can be handwritten. We should not be scared of pro-forma things but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520356",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 520356,
      "EditedText": "I quite like the fact that the pro-forma petition that has been produced includes an instruction to insert a one-line title for the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 520358,
      "EditedText": "No, but we are talking about the form. People have asked me about petitions. We are showing them how to do something that they do not know how to do. We are not saying that it is the only thing that they must do, but that this is how to do it. Nothing crystallises someone's point more than having to summarise in one line what it is they want, which is what the instruction on the title asks people to do. That helps. Most people, as we know, who have problems or complaints will tell their whole story. One then has to work out what the real problem is. The pro-forma petition is therefore an aid, not an impediment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 520360,
      "EditedText": "Okay, but I am pitching for our having a form."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 520383,
      "EditedText": "I wondered whether some points had been dropped."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 520411,
      "EditedText": "It also depends on the nature of the petition. There might be petitions that require an almost immediate response. Perhaps in such cases we could, as Pauline suggested, attach a note to the petition to say that we would appreciate a response by a certain time, depending on the substance of a petition. Many committees are very busy now, so it would be foolish to set a timetable that could not be kept from the start."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 520418,
      "EditedText": "Could we also ensure that the petitioners are told? This Parliament could do with some good public relations, and it would be bad if we did not get back to them. Even if, through no fault of the Parliament, something takes four or five months, they should know that the matter is being attended to and that there is a reason for the delay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14193,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 520420,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14193,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 520422,
      "EditedText": "I have had people approaching me directly about petitions. I told them—I hope it was appropriate—that they should contact the clerk about sending petitions, rather than members taking them individually, which would lead to chaos. I do not know whether other members have received petitions directly, but I did and I advised the petitioners to go through the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 520429,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I intend to be in my constituency on Mondays."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 520438,
      "EditedText": "There is a sign with directions to committee room 4 printed after the Gaelic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 520305,
      "EditedText": "That is probably fair, as we have asked Mr Frank to do the same thing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 520315,
      "EditedText": "No, they were not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
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      "ID": 14191,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 520319,
      "EditedText": "I wanted clarification just in case you come back to us for results before we have seen the petitions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 520330,
      "EditedText": "That is a different matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 14189,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14189,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John McAllion): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 520236,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the third meeting of the Public Petitions Committee. I remind members that, at the end of this public session of the meeting, we will have a briefing session with an official from the Scottish Executive, Mr John Ewing, who will go over the consultative steering group report on petitions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 520237,
      "EditedText": "The first petition is petition PE5, which has been resubmitted by Mr Maurice Frank. I understand that the clerk has held discussions with the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, which has indicated that it would be likely to take no further action were this petition to be referred to it.It is my view that part of this committee's role is to protect other committees from a flood of petitions, some of which are not relevant to the main thrust of the Parliament's work. I suggest that the committee should decide to take no further action on this petition and to ask the clerk to write to the petitioner to explain why, in conciliatory and diplomatic terms, we do not think it is worth while to pass the petition on to the education committee. If members have other views, please feel free to express them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 520240,
      "EditedText": "I wonder about the built heritage aspect of this petition. The Transport and the Environment Committee has a natural heritage remit, but would not have a built heritage remit. That would not prevent the petition going before the Transport and the Environment Committee for reasons to do with planning, signage and other environmental issues. Built heritage would come within the remit of Sam Galbraith's committee—rather the Education, Culture and Sport Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 520244,
      "EditedText": "No, I accept what you have been told. That is what we have professional advisers for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Steve Farrell (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 520245,
      "EditedText": "The Transport and the Environment Committee claimed ownership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 520250,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed? Members are agreed.The next petition is from Mr Calum Graham, calling on the Parliament to write to each member of the Scottish electorate annually to provide details of their elected representatives, and other information. Obviously, that would have significant resource implications and the logistics would be problematic. In addition, we have our own public information service, which provides a range of information about the Scottish Parliament and its services to members of the public.MSPs have a duty to make known who they are, where their offices are and the kinds of services that they can provide for their electorates. Given that background, I suggest that we take no further action, but that the clerk write to the petitioner, explaining the role of the Parliament's public information service, the role of MSPs and their duty to connect with voters, and ask that he be satisfied with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 520251,
      "EditedText": "It might be appropriate to promote the services offered by regional members. The publicity might be quite nice for all members. Other than that, I agree with everything that you have said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 520253,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the spirit of what the petitioner is driving at, with regard to ensuring that the public knows who its representatives are. I have no difficulty with the subject matter of the petition, and you might convey that the request is well intentioned, but there is a matter of principle involved. The point of the Public Petitions Committee is not that people can write in and say, \"I want this done\", and then we go and do it. We must deal with the fundamental principle that we cannot take any petition that simply asks the Scottish Parliament to do something. Otherwise, where would we be?There is no committee to send the petition to. However, it might be nice to convey that the spirit of what the petitioner is driving at is a good thing. For people with access to the internet it is easy to find out who their representatives are. It is a very good service, but perhaps there is a gap for people who do not have internet access."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 520254,
      "EditedText": "I have just been reminded, and most MSPs will know this, that the Parliament's public information service has a link library in every constituency, which provides information about the constituency's MSPs to members of the public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 520255,
      "EditedText": "I can vouch for that, because I have visited a link library and it was first class. I know that it is not the same in every area, but in my area access to the Scottish Parliament's website is free to members of the public. Indeed, in the newsletters that I have been writing I have lifted excellent material about what is happening in Scotland from the website and I have publicised it locally. That is going down quite well in my area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 520257,
      "EditedText": "We do it in Fife as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 520259,
      "EditedText": "The convener is right to suggest that we do not pursue it any further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 520262,
      "EditedText": "Whatever happens will be reported to the committee, including the legal advice given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 520263,
      "EditedText": "On a lighter note, maybe I will write to him disputing the title because my middle name is Stirling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 520264,
      "EditedText": "I certainly have no claims of that kind.The next petition is from Councillor Susan Love of Stirling Council. She is the council's youth issues spokesperson and is calling for the Scottish Executive to abolish student tuition fees in Scotland in advance of the report of the independent committee on student funding. The petition has been signed by several, I think opposition, MSPs. I am not sure about Keith Harding and Nick Johnston. Are they Conservatives?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 520266,
      "EditedText": "It is addressed to the Scottish Executive. It is up to us to decide whether to pass it directly to the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning or to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. I am seriously concerned that just as lobbyists may attempt to hijack this committee, so too can MSPs. I do not want the committee to become a back door method by which MSPs get items on to committee agendas. There are all sorts of ways that MSPs can raise issues legitimately. I am happy to pass it to the Executive or to the committee, but we should make it clear that we do not want a series of petitions from MSPs using the committee to get things on to the Parliament's agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 520269,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what John says. I think it should go to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 520274,
      "EditedText": "I think that the petition should be sent to the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning at the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 520275,
      "EditedText": "We have had two suggestions: that the petition should go to the minister and that it should go to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 520280,
      "EditedText": "I presume that the youth committee of the council initiated the petition and she took it for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 520282,
      "EditedText": "It is important to remember that an individual can submit a petition. That suggests that the petition is in order as it is in Susan Love's name alone. Her suggestion is that something should be done in advance of the Cubie committee's report. She is asking the Scottish Parliament to think again. There will be many times when the judgment of the Parliament or of the Executive will be questioned and they will be asked to think again. On that basis, we should treat the petition as we would any other petition and pass it to the committee in the first instance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 520285,
      "EditedText": "I believe that it should go to the Executive. There is a difference of opinion on the matter. Given the background that the convener has outlined, we should not let ourselves get tied up in knots about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 520286,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 520287,
      "EditedText": "If the overwhelming majority of the committee wants one course of action, we should follow it. What is the position? Does the convener have a casting vote, or do we let it go to both the committee and the minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 520289,
      "EditedText": "The committee can take the decision not to push the petition forward, because the matter is already under the jurisdiction of the Parliament. All we would be doing is saying that it is up to us to think about the issue and to make the decision. That is our right. I do not see what the hassle is. The committee can act ahead of the report of the Cubie committee; if it does not, it will be ignoring the words of the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 520290,
      "EditedText": "The committee cannot act in defiance of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 520296,
      "EditedText": "This petition calls on the minister—not the committee—to take action; it calls for Executive action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 520301,
      "EditedText": "Can I ask one question, which is not meant to be insulting? I know of the convener's past record and I am well aware that this is the kind of thing on which he would have hung his hat. Has he signed the petition, by any chance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 520307,
      "EditedText": "But not as part of the petition itself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 520309,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed? Members are agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 14191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 520320,
      "EditedText": "No. How we monitor the progress that committees are making on petitions is another matter that we will discuss later in the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 14191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 520321,
      "EditedText": "Will this list become shorter as our work proceeds, convener? PE 1 has now been dealt with—will that just drop off the list?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 520325,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is the draft document on guidance on the submission of public petitions, which was distributed at the previous committee meeting and about which we were asked to send our comments to the clerk. Nobody wrote in, so either we think the guidance is excellent and cannot be improved or we are too busy. We have two alternatives; either we talk about it now or we request that members send their comments to the clerk before the next meeting. However, since no one responded the previous time I do not think that that would be fruitful. Are there any points that anyone wishes to raise with regard to this paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 520327,
      "EditedText": "It is fortunate that you raised that matter, because it relates to the second item on page one of the guidance document, which states that:\"A petition may be brought by:an individual\".Phil is suggesting that that should not be the case. Until now, we have not suggested that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 520329,
      "EditedText": "We would be entitled to do it by going through the Procedures Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 520341,
      "EditedText": "The second paragraph on the form of petitions refers to a pro-forma being attached. It is followed by a note to members in a larger typeface, which says:\"Views are invited on whether we should impose this given such an approach could be seen as being prescriptive and not in keeping with the Parliament's open and accessible approach.\"I have a great deal of sympathy with the part of the sentence that says that we should be open and accessible in our approach. Our procedures should reflect the fact that we want to minimise the element of prescription in the process. While I understand that it is helpful to people to see a pro-forma document, I hope that we would not dismiss a petition simply because it was not in the prescribed format."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 520345,
      "EditedText": "We will produce a model form and recommend that form to people. If somebody decides that they want to submit a petition in a different form, we will not say no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 520347,
      "EditedText": "There is a danger of getting uptight about this. There will be a suggested form for petitions that will be available to the public. I expect that most members of the public will follow that form, but they will not be required to.We are trying to avoid a situation similar to the one in Westminster, where the process is utterly prescriptive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 520352,
      "EditedText": "The mention of legal advice concerns me greatly. Christine's comments about sheriff courts and all the paper work in them concerns me even more.The idea of our guidance to the public is to make things easier for people. When something happens—it might be of a horrific nature—and somebody wants to send in a petition, there should be no rules that stop them doing so. The last thing we want to do is to have pre-set formats. That would be a disaster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 520367,
      "EditedText": "Is it the view of the committee that people should be able to submit a petition on any day?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 520369,
      "EditedText": "As the draft guidance stands, the recess would be excluded, which is a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 520382,
      "EditedText": "I have been advised that although the new version is condensed, the same points are covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 520386,
      "EditedText": "It was amended under the guidance of the committee; the clerk has not tried to pull a fast one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 520392,
      "EditedText": "You are on the liaison committee and I have to ask somebody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 520394,
      "EditedText": "It may well have been the view of some people that we should travel around the country, but I do not think that it was ever stipulated whether that would be as a Parliament or as a committee. As members, we have the right, within reason, to travel anywhere in Scotland. I am a member of the Transport and the Environment Committee, and if I get an invitation from a group to investigate an issue, I will go and visit that group, if time and other circumstances permit. I will go as an individual and if I need advice I will get an appropriate person to give me advice.However, the issue of whole committees travelling raises big questions. Could I put my hand on my heart and say that it was absolutely necessary for a committee to travel, perhaps to stay overnight in a hotel, and to incur all sorts of extra costs? Could I justify that when there are a lot of competing demands for budgets and when throughout Scotland there are voluntary organisations that need money and people who need jobs? We should think long and hard about this. Would any decision that we have taken to date have been a better decision if we had taken it while away from the Parliament? That should always be a criterion. We should always decide whether the quality of our decisions would be improved by going out from the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 520396,
      "EditedText": "We could do that, but it would not be a formal meeting of the committee and it would not be officially recorded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 520398,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but it is entirely up to this committee if it wants to go unofficially to visit places."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 520419,
      "EditedText": "If there is undue delay, we shall get back to the petitioners and explain why."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 14194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 520426,
      "EditedText": "The last item, under the heading of any other business, is the suggestion that the next meeting be held at 2 o'clock on Tuesday 5 October in committee room 3 or 4. All conveners got a letter from Paul Grice, the chief executive of the Parliament, saying that committees should feel free to schedule meetings on Monday afternoons and encouraging them to do so. It is entirely up to members of the committee whether they want to meet on Monday afternoons rather than on Tuesdays."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 14194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 520428,
      "EditedText": "Is that everybody's view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 14194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 520437,
      "EditedText": "May I make a suggestion? It would be good if there was a sign in the hall saying which committee room is where. Pauline and I both went upstairs thinking that the meeting would be in our usual committee room, but it was downstairs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 14194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 520441,
      "EditedText": "If there is no more competent business, I declare the meeting closed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 14194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 520442,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:09."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 520268,
      "EditedText": "She did not ask you to sign it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 520276,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make an important distinction. I agree with what has been said about the misuse of petitions by MSPs, but this is a councillor's petition that MSPs have endorsed. I agree with Sandra that the petition should go to the committee rather than the minister. I do not want us to send things to ministers too often."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 520295,
      "EditedText": "What principles will be applied when we refer petitions to a minister or to another committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 14191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 520313,
      "EditedText": "If I may be really picky, the petitions that are being considered by the Justice and Home Affairs Committee should be remitted to us, because I do not think that the committee has even seen them yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 520379,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on to that, we appear to have skipped paragraph 15 in the draft guidance:\"When presented with an admissible petition, the PPC has several courses of action it may take. It can:\"followed by points (a) to (e). An earlier draft of the document included points (a) to (h). What has happened to the other three actions that we can take?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 520387,
      "EditedText": "I am satisfied that there has been no jiggery-pokery."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 520395,
      "EditedText": "I partly agree with that. If we went out, would it have to be an official and recorded meeting of the Public Petitions Committee? Members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee might be going out in scattered groups to prisons, but I do not think that we are taking the whole paraphernalia with us. We are going out simply to take evidence. In a similar way, this committee could go out for its erudition, because it wanted to learn more about a specific point concerning a petition. In that case, I do not think that we would need to take recording equipment, and we could go out without all the expense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 520397,
      "EditedText": "We do it already in the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 520399,
      "EditedText": "I can see two options. There might be a petition from an area where some big issue had arisen, and it would be appropriate—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 520407,
      "EditedText": "Is the budget fixed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 520391,
      "EditedText": "There is no point in asking me. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 520393,
      "EditedText": "The liaison group did not exist when decisions were taken about budgets. Those decisions were taken by groups that existed before the Parliament did—the consultative steering group, for example, made recommendations. Perhaps in a private session at the end we could raise this matter with the official from the Scottish Executive who will be reporting on it. The Parliament and the conveners liaison group inherited this situation; they did not create it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 520400,
      "EditedText": "We could travel there as individual MSPs and as members of the Public Petitions Committee, but we would not officially be the Public Petitions Committee when we got there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 520404,
      "EditedText": "Please speak through the chair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 520406,
      "EditedText": "This is interesting for me because I heard all the same points in the debate in the conveners liaison group.There is no proposal before this committee to travel anywhere. There may well be one in future, but we can consider it then.I am reporting back to the committee that this matter is under active discussion in the conveners liaison group. Recommendations for changes to the way in which these things are organised will go to the next liaison group meeting, and from there—hopefully—to the next meeting of the Procedures Committee. I stress that what will not change is the fact that there is a very limited budget—there is not a lot of money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 520408,
      "EditedText": "It is fixed. We had thought it was about £100,000, but it appears to be £75,000—it is very limited. Of course, some committees have a much stronger case for travelling than others do. Committees such as the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the Social Inclusion, Housing and the Voluntary Sector Committee have stronger arguments than we have for calling on that budget. There may be circumstances under which we can justify travel, but we would have to do so against a list of other priorities for the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 520409,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what has been said. I am not against this committee travelling, and can think of a few occasions on which it could be justified, but there are several considerations. It would have to be in the public interest for us to go somewhere and hear evidence directly from the public, or it would have to help us make a decision. So far, there has not been any difficulty making decisions because of not having direct access to the public. I believe in principle that committees should have the right to travel if they can justify it. As Christine said, it is the bureau that will decide whether the Justice and Home Affairs Committee can visit prisons. It will not be the whole committee, but groups of members, who make those visits. When the time comes, we will have to put our case as to why visits would benefit the committee and its decision making.The argument is not just about cost. I would have to justify additional travel time and everything else. If we were to go longer distances, it would have to be for very good reasons. Most of us serve on two committees. I would have to balance a whole day's travelling against other interests.Nobody is against travelling per se; I can see reasons why this committee will want to travel, but the future will determine whether we do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 520412,
      "EditedText": "Not least because work loads vary from committee to committee. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee is much more heavily loaded with work than are some other committees—I cannot think of one, and they will take offence if I mention them anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 520415,
      "EditedText": "It is early days. We should recognise the work loads of other committees, but we cannot afford to let committees think that we will forget about petitions. From time to time, this committee might ask you to get in touch with a convener to find out why a petition has not been dealt with, so that we can keep petitioners informed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 520417,
      "EditedText": "There are two ways of doing it. We ask the subject committee clerk to ensure that the petitions are addressed by the committee. We also have the list that is published by this committee every session. We can use it to mark progress and take the matter up with the subject committee if any petition has not been progressed. At the conveners liaison group, I stressed that petitions are not something that should be added on at the end of the agenda; it is central to what the Scottish Parliament is all about. The committees of the Parliament must deal properly with petitions and give them proper respect and a place on their agendas. That did not happen in the other Parliament and history cannot be allowed to repeat itself here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 520421,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other issues? If a petition falls within the remit of two committees, the conveners are quite happy for this committee to nominate a lead committee. Officially, though, the right to do that lies with the bureau and with the conveners liaison group. The conveners want to be kept informed of our decisions as to which is nominated as the lead committee for a petition. The conveners are also happy to let me see any draft replies before they are sent out.Are there any other issues that members would like to be raised at the next conveners liaison group?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 520423,
      "EditedText": "Any member who is given a petition should refer it to the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 520425,
      "EditedText": "The public guidance should be to go to the clerk. That is the proper avenue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14194,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 520427,
      "EditedText": "I would have difficulties meeting other commitments if committee business extended to Mondays. At the moment, it is just about manageable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 520430,
      "EditedText": "So we should stick to Tuesdays?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 520432,
      "EditedText": "Why has he asked you to do that? Is there pressure on committee rooms?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 520433,
      "EditedText": "I think so. There is a lot of pressure on committee accommodation. Parliament staff are trying to extend the number of days on which committees can meet. If we want to meet on a Monday, we are free to do so, but it is not compulsory."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 520439,
      "EditedText": "There is certainly a board there, but perhaps it does not have sufficient information on it. We shall ensure that members have clear information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 520239,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed? Members are agreed.The next petition is from Mr Guild and concerns the impact of current developments on Roman remains at Cramond in Edinburgh. In his petition, Mr Guild asks for a full assessment to be made of the Cramond area, taking into account transport and other issues as well as the protection and interpretation of the Roman ruins. I have received a note on this petition from Margaret Smith, a local MSP. By the way, Margaret sends her apologies, as she is absent at the Liberal Democrat conference.I will read out the points that she raised: \"as the . . . former councillor for the area, I echo the need for proper maintenance, conservation and signage at the bath house and other Roman remains\".She goes to say that previously she had written to Edinburgh City Council asking that they set up\"an interpretative centre in the old school annexe\"but that the council had\"yet to come to a final decision.\"Margaret says that she had also been\"heavily involved in the preparation of the planning brief for Cramond campus, including the protection of woodland and the archaeological site following an assessment.As far as East of Scotland Water's planning application is concerned\"—which is, of course, in accordance with the European Union timetable, the application is—\"currently with the City of Edinburgh.\"Margaret points out that she has\"a great deal of sympathy with the petitioner as Cramond is the area in which I live as well as work.\"It seems straightforward that this petition should be passed to the Transport and the Environment Committee so that it can consider appropriate action. Are any members minded otherwise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 520242,
      "EditedText": "That comes as news to me. I thought that we on the Transport and the Environment Committee dealt with natural heritage, as opposed to built heritage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 520243,
      "EditedText": "We can check that out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 520246,
      "EditedText": "That committee was consulted and it claimed ownership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 520256,
      "EditedText": "Sandra's point is a fair one. Glasgow City Council performs a useful role in drawing to the attention of the people in its area who their MSPs are. I am not sure that every council in Scotland does that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 520273,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, Helen, I missed that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 520278,
      "EditedText": "I would like to clarify that for Pauline. The background information on the petition says that Susan Love is Stirling Council's youth issues spokesperson. She has submitted the petition in that capacity, not as an individual councillor or on behalf of MSPs. There is no issue of malpractice attached to the fact that she has got MSPs to sign it. She has been asked by Stirling Council to do this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 520279,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but I think that it is healthier for members of the public to sign petitions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 520284,
      "EditedText": "I think that it should be sent to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 520293,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 520297,
      "EditedText": "I still think that we should send it to the committee. I think that ministers have enough paperwork and I would not like them to be bogged down with a lot of material from this committee, particularly if the matter could be referred to another committee, which may decide that no further action is necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 520303,
      "EditedText": "We need to make the same point to Mr Ooms as we made to Mr Frank: that his petition will require some redrafting. I do not want us to get into the habit of allowing people to use petitions to air the details of their individual cases. Mr Ooms highlights a legitimate issue, but we should take out the references to his case, which is a matter for the ombudsman rather than for the Health and Community Care Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 520312,
      "EditedText": "It is on the back of the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 520314,
      "EditedText": "They were considered at the previous meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14191,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 520322,
      "EditedText": "It is entirely up to the committee. I suggest that any petition that we decide not to send on will appear on the list for one meeting thereafter and then will disappear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 520323,
      "EditedText": "That makes sense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14191,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 520324,
      "EditedText": "However, petitions that are not finally resolved in one way or another should continue to appear on the list until they are resolved. That would be the best way to do it. As petitions are dealt with they drop off the list; otherwise they stay on it. Does anyone wish to raise any points on that? It seems not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 520334,
      "EditedText": "I think that we covered ourselves in the minutes when we said that we were not setting any precedents. We should keep the matter under review. I am not against individuals submitting petitions. If it is a genuine petition, individuals should be allowed to have their say but, as the convener said, the concern is over people trying to bypass the procedures, or doing things that they could not get done by another way. That is the context in which I would like to review whether the system is working.My whole political experience has been based on petitions that show some element of public support for an issue. The idea of one person being able to demonstrate that they object to something is completely new to me. I am not saying that it is wrong, but it should be reviewed. Christine is right to point out that we have already let a few go through, but we covered ourselves when we said that we are still in the early stages and that whatever we decide will not be written in tablets of stone for a long time to come. We should not close the door on that matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 520335,
      "EditedText": "I would be loth to amend that condition at this stage, but it should be kept under review to determine how it operates. It is an issue that we should be aware of and attentive to.Rather than jump around the guidance on submission paper, I will go through it page by page and if anyone has an item that they wish to raise they should raise it. Are there any issues, other than the one Phil raised, relating to page 1?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 520340,
      "EditedText": "Is there anything else on page 1? Page 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 520342,
      "EditedText": "It is interesting that you raise that point. In accordance with the standing orders—I think it is in rule 15.4.4—our committee should determine the proper form of petitions. A petition will be deemed inadmissible only if it is not in that form. That causes problems for the decision that we have made that we should be less rigid and non-prescriptive. It has been suggested that the clerk, with the Parliament's legal team, should prepare a report to bring to the next meeting of the committee. They would consider what the proper form would be. It might be just that the petition must be written in black ink on an A4 sheet of paper. That would allow some flexibility. Their advice will allow us to stay within standing orders while being flexible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 520355,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Christine that we need a wee bit of discipline. As time goes on and people get into the way of thinking, we will have more petitions to deal with. We must be able to manage that properly. If there is a presumption in favour of taking as many petitions as we can, as long as they meet a few simple rules, that should be recorded for all time. Our objective is to allow as many people as possible to send petitions and to have their say, so that debates can be held in other forums. As you say, convener, only a few simple rules are required. If people feel that an issue is important enough to submit a petition in the first place, they will be happy to follow a few simple rules, which is all that we are asking. So far, for the most part, we have received single subject petitions, but the subject matter of one or two of them has been unclear to me. We need to close that gap."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 520365,
      "EditedText": "Was this point not raised at the previous committee meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 520366,
      "EditedText": "Petitions must be received on a day when the office of the clerk is open."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 520368,
      "EditedText": "I understood that petitions could be submitted on any day other than those when the Parliament had agreed that it is in recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 520371,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to raise the thorny issue of how many weeks we are in recess every year, but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 520373,
      "EditedText": "There is a substantial period during which the Parliament does not meet, but people should be able to submit petitions on those days. We could recommend to the Procedures Committee that the standing orders be changed to allow people to present petitions at any time. Do we agree to do that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 520374,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on pages 3 or 4 of the draft? What about annex A, the format for petitions? I think it is very good.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 520375,
      "EditedText": "Finally, there is annex B, the format for e-mail submissions. Is that okay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 520377,
      "EditedText": "If that amendment—to include examples in the empty boxes—is incorporated, is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 520378,
      "EditedText": "That takes us on to my report from the conveners liaison group. Members will remember that we sought to raise several issues with that group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 520384,
      "EditedText": "The options that are no longer included are those that recommended that we take no action. It was felt that we should always do something, even if it was simply to write back to the petitioner to say that no further action would be taken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 520388,
      "EditedText": "Not on this committee anyway—there may be on other committees, but not here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 520389,
      "EditedText": "As members may know, the subject of committees meeting outside Edinburgh is quite contentious, not least because the budget for travel is very restricted. At the moment, the bureau makes the decisions on the matter.The conveners liaison group will make several recommendations to the Procedures Committee. First, the group will recommend that it should be given formal standing in the standing orders and allowed to decide on the allocation of the travel budget between committees. Further, it will recommend that applications for travel outside Edinburgh should be made to the conveners group, rather than to the bureau, and that the group will consider such applications in the context of other priorities and other committees that are making bids for a limited cash budget.The budget will restrict fairly severely committees' ability to travel outside Edinburgh. That is not an issue for just this committee to discuss. The conveners agree in principle that we can attend meetings outside Edinburgh and that, where possible, we should try to cut down the cost of doing so. If the meeting is official, the official report, security and others also have to be present and that adds enormously to the cost. The subject is under active discussion by the conveners liaison group and as soon as anything is decided, I will report back to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 14189,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 520235,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:05"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 520238,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to support your view, convener. I have read the petition and I think that, in all the circumstances, that action is reasonable and appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 520241,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has informed me that he took advice on the matter and that the Transport and the Environment Committee is the relevant committee for heritage-related issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 520247,
      "EditedText": "That is quite exciting for me. I support those kinds of initiatives, so I am happy for the Transport and the Environment Committee to deal with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 520248,
      "EditedText": "Is it agreed that we ask the clerk to write to the petitioner to explain the situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 520249,
      "EditedText": "I agree. For too long those areas have been overlooked and we have lost a lot of our natural heritage. Referring the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee would mean that it could consider the matter in greater depth, so I support passing it on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 520252,
      "EditedText": "Glasgow City Council has a magazine in which MSPs, local councillors, MPs and others are invited to list when and where their surgeries are and to provide contact numbers and pictures. The magazine is then given to every household in Glasgow. If other councils do the same, could the petitioner be informed of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 520258,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should write to the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities asking them to recommend that councils make information available about MSPs in their area.The recommendation is that we take no further action but that the clerk writes to the petitioner.The next petition is from Mr Timothy Alexander, concerning his claims to the Earldom of Stirling and other related titles. Mr Alexander has been pursuing the claims for several years. He has petitioned the Queen, a previous Secretary of State for Scotland and the current Secretary of State for Scotland, so far without success. This is a reserved matter and usually we would write to him to say so; however, there are legal complexities to do with the responsibilities of the Lord Lyon on which the clerk has taken advice. We have not yet had a reply so we can either defer the matter until our next meeting or we can take a decision that, unless that advice suggests otherwise, we will take no further action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 520260,
      "EditedText": "If the legal advice is that the Parliament has a role, then we will have to reconsider it, but if the advice is that this is a reserved matter, we will write to the petitioner explaining that and that he should approach the Westminster Parliament.Apparently his claim to the title is disputed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 520261,
      "EditedText": "The Earldom of Stirling throws up anomalies, although it cannot be proven whether or not they are anomalies. I know you do not want to bring it back to the committee, but it would be interesting to have a report on the legal advice given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
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      "ID": 14190,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 520265,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 14190,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 520267,
      "EditedText": "I take your point. I should declare an interest since Susan Love is an SNP councillor. I had nothing to do with the petition, however."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2839074+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 520270,
      "EditedText": "I do not see the petition as coming from the MSPs. All Susan Love has done is indicate that some members have signed it. Is there another petition with the names of student representatives on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 520271,
      "EditedText": "This is the only petition that we know of. It is signed by Councillor Love and eight MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 520272,
      "EditedText": "I support your view. Last night I read about how motions are brought before the Parliament—entertaining bedtime reading, I know. There are many ways to do that, and a number of other ways in which MSPs can make their opinions known. The message that MSPs should not use this committee as a back door to the Parliament should go out strongly.There is concern about student fees, which is why the Cubie committee was set up. I think that the petition should be sent to the relevant minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 520277,
      "EditedText": "It is a competent petition on a controversial subject and it is right that it should come before this committee. However, if Susan Love's intention is to convey people's views on the matter, it would have been useful to have people other than MSPs signing the petition. I know that there is considerable opposition to student fees and it concerns me that the petitioner has not gone to the trouble of getting the signatures of members of the public.I share everyone's concern about the petition. The matter has already been debated. The petition serves no purpose at this stage and it is not clear what Susan Love wants done. She seems to want only to express her opinion, and we should discourage that sort of petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 520281,
      "EditedText": "This is not the place to debate the merits of the call that Councillor Love makes. Her petition asks for a course of action that goes against the decision of the Scottish Parliament to set up a committee of inquiry on the issue of student maintenance.Given the Parliament's decision and the Executive's role in implementing that decision, should we send the petition to the minister or to the committee? I think that it should go to the minister as the Parliament has already decided on the matter. The Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee will say exactly what I am saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 520283,
      "EditedText": "The point is not that the petition will be successful if it goes to the committee rather than to the Executive. Both the Executive and the committee will have to say that the Parliament is awaiting the outcome of the Cubie inquiry and that a decision will be made then. The Parliament has not yet made up its mind on the issue.The petition asks Parliament to pre-empt a mechanism that the Parliament set up. It is irrelevant whether the petition goes to the minister or to the committee. Both will be unable to act upon it, because it would be contrary to the wishes of the Parliament to do so. I am easy. We can send it either to the committee or to the Executive. It does not make any difference because it cannot go any further until the Cubie inquiry has reported."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 520288,
      "EditedText": "We can put it to a vote, if that is what members want. I do not feel strongly enough to cause a division on the matter, because it will not go beyond the next stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 520291,
      "EditedText": "The committee can say that it will not consider the matter further. That is its right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 520292,
      "EditedText": "It is an important point. The convener is right. We know that there is a clear determination in the Parliament and that the Cubie report will be brought out. Anything else becomes superfluous. People can take note of the petition, it can be pushed forward, but that does not suggest that the committee supports that petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 520294,
      "EditedText": "We have reserved the right to say that we think that some things should be given priority; this would not be one of those things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 520298,
      "EditedText": "Do we send the petition to the committee? Does anyone feel strongly about it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 520299,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 520300,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the clerk can draw the petition and the debate that we have just had to the attention of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee.The next petition comes from Stracathro staff action committee and calls for the retention and enhancement of acute services at Stracathro hospital, by Brechin. Those of us who come from the area will know that the issue is a hot potato. Last weekend, about 1,500 people turned up to a meeting in Stracathro as part of the campaign.An on-going acute services review is being undertaken by Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust about the configuration of services across Tayside. I think that we should pass the petition to the Health and Community Care Committee for further consideration. Is that agreed? Members are agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 520302,
      "EditedText": "No, I am a Dundee politician. If Phil Gallie wants to debate this outside the committee, I would be delighted to oblige.We will pass that petition on to the Health and Community Care Committee.The next item is a petition from the Carbeth Hutters Association calling for the introduction of legislation to provide security of tenure and rights of access for those who own property built on leased land. This relates to land reform legislation and should be passed to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee for consideration.The final petition is from Mr J Ooms and calls for a review of the national health service complaints procedure. He has an on-going complaint about both his GP and his local hospital, which is currently before the health service ombudsman. In normal circumstances, the petition would not be passed on until that case is resolved. However, Mr Ooms is asking not for his complaint to be referred on, but for the method of investigating complaints in the NHS to be examined. We should, therefore, allow the petition to go forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 520304,
      "EditedText": "The question of the form of petitions submitted to this committee will be addressed later in the meeting. I take Pauline's point that the details of Mr Ooms's case are not what we want to refer to the Health and Community Care Committee. Perhaps the clerk could write back to ask him to put his petition into a simpler form that can be sent on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 520306,
      "EditedText": "He can send his letter as background information along with the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Consideration of Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14190,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14190,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 520308,
      "EditedText": "That is quite reasonable. I have experience of similar cases because I have been involved with a primary care trust and have adjudicated on complaints by the public. The health service has changed its procedures on more than one occasion, and it may be that they are still not working to the best advantage of the public. Let us ensure that we send the petition to the relevant committee so that if the procedures need to be reviewed they can be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 14191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 520310,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is progress of petitions considered at previous meetings. Paper PE 99/3/2 lists the petitions that have been considered by the committee so far and provides details of the progress that has been made on each to date. I do not think that this is a subject that we want to debate at every meeting, but the information is there for members. Should any member have concerns about a petition, they will be able to raise them at this point on the agenda. This will be a regular feature of meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 14191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 520311,
      "EditedText": "I do not have the paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 14191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 520316,
      "EditedText": "They were considered at our previous meeting and forwarded to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 14191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 520318,
      "EditedText": "No, it means that the petitions have been passed on for consideration by that committee when it has time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 520326,
      "EditedText": "We have had a debate today about an individual submitting a petition. Would it change things too much if we accepted that an individual backed by x number of petitioners should be the basis for petitions in future? A petition is more than one person's opinion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 520331,
      "EditedText": "The matter would have to be referred to that committee. We had a debate about this issue a short time ago. John was concerned about some elements of it. Given those concerns, which will be recorded in the minutes, it might be worth at least considering the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 520332,
      "EditedText": "To be fair, the concern that I expressed was not the fact that an individual had submitted a petition, but the fact that MSPs had signed up to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 520336,
      "EditedText": "For the same reasons, we should keep submissions from corporate bodies under review. They, too, are probably a good thing, but the same concerns would apply if they became a mechanism for lots of law firms to get things on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 520338,
      "EditedText": "Under review simply means that we are aware that there is a potential problem and that we are keeping an eye on it. If we see a problem emerging, we will go through the Procedures Committee to make recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Steve Farrell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 520344,
      "EditedText": "Yes I am. I will be as helpful as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
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      "ID": 14192,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 520348,
      "EditedText": "Your advice would be useful, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 520349,
      "EditedText": "If we get legal advice about how we—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 520350,
      "EditedText": "My God. Sorry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 520351,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the spirit of what Christine is saying, but the danger is that members in later years might not have our generosity of spirit and things might get difficult for the public. It would be useful if you could get some sympathetic guidance for us, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 520353,
      "EditedText": "We are making it easier, not more difficult, for people to approach us. Pauline pointed out, for example, that the petition from the chap about the NHS complaints procedure included a lot of personal details. If the ombudsman saw that, it could go against the man's case. We are telling people how to present petitions, not sending them back. If somebody writes something illegible in a petition it could take six weeks for the petition to be resubmitted by the time we send a letter to tell them how the petition should be filled in. We are giving people a choice by telling them the way in which they should proceed. We need to give some form of guidelines. Apart from anything else, people will expect it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 520354,
      "EditedText": "When we dealt with admissibility, we dealt with all the things with which people must conform. We will provide guidelines. This is not an either/or situation; there can be both. There will be an easy way for people to make petitions, but if they choose not to do them in that way, we will not be prescriptive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
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      "ID": 14192,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 520357,
      "EditedText": "We have not reached that yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 520359,
      "EditedText": "Nobody is suggesting that it would be anything other than that. There will be a recommended form of petition in the Scottish Parliament, but it will remain at this committee's discretion to accept or reject petitions in other forms. That is all that we are saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 520361,
      "EditedText": "I accept that it is at our discretion, but I submit that in the case of a number of the petitions that we will receive, people will already have been out in the street and have picked up a couple of hundred signatures by the time they go to an MSP to ask what procedure they should follow. At that point, the last thing we want to do is say that the petition is not in the correct format. I have no difficulty giving people a format, if it is just a case of agreeing a single line for the title with the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520362",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 520362,
      "EditedText": "Nobody is trying to make things too rigid. We all agree that there should be a recommended form, to which people should adhere as far as possible. All we are saying is that it is at our discretion to accept other forms of petition. Is it agreed that the clerk should report back with legal advice on how we can allow discretion and still comply with standing orders?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 520363,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments on page 3 of the draft guidance on the submission of public petitions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 520364,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for not writing in with this point. Like a lot of people, I said that I would, but did not. Point 10 of the draft guidance says that the Parliament can be petitioned only on a sitting day. I have always been against that, as people do not always know when sitting days are. They may write a letter or collect signatures on a Saturday and post them on a Monday that is a holiday. The process should be opened up. People should be able to send in petitions on any day, although I know that a proposal for such a change will need to be sent to the Procedures Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 520370,
      "EditedText": "It is still not a problem. If the public want to petition us on a matter of major concern, or to have a recall of Parliament, this committee should have the power to meet, receive the petition and form a view on what to do with it. That applies at all times, 365 days a year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 520372,
      "EditedText": "I have had one week's holidays—are any members of the press here?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 520380,
      "EditedText": "I did not notice that change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2995285+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 520390,
      "EditedText": "Why on earth was that not thought about before? The whole idea of this Parliament is that it will set up committees that are close to the people and go around Scotland. Why has it been decided only now that the budget will not cover that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 520402,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with anything that Helen said, except for her interpretation of where MSPs can go. Our remit does not allow us to go tramping around Scotland, even if we have a special interest in something and want to do so. My particular interest is in home affairs, but that does not entitle me to zoom up to Aberdeen to meet people there, no matter how interested I am or they are in my doing so. I suspect that our remit allows me to go round only the south of Scotland to meet constituents. I agree with everything that Helen said, but perhaps—as the convener has suggested—the issue of travelling round the country was not completely thought out before. However, it was people other than those who are now in the Parliament who made those decisions. That is fine with me and I accept it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 520403,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to challenge that, but I would like to ask Phil some questions relating to his and John's experience of Westminster.In the recess, we had a number of invitations; for example, some members on the Transport and the Environment Committee visited the Forestry Commission. Are you saying that you do not have a remit to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 520405,
      "EditedText": "Sorry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 520410,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we do not debate whether there might be good reasons for this committee travelling. There are no proposals to travel at the moment. I am just informing members of the discussion of the conveners group.The other matter that I was asked at the conveners group to raise was whether we should set a time scale for committees to respond to petitions that we refer to them. It was suggested that they try to respond within two committee cycles. That was very much frowned upon by the other conveners, who made it clear that they could not comply with that strict limit. It was suggested that our clerk should liaise with the clerks of other committees to work out a realistic time scale for reporting back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 520414,
      "EditedText": "Some committees have busier work programmes than others, so it would be unfair to set a strict regime. We will liaise with individual committees on realistic time scales in which to deal with the petitions that we refer to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 14194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 520434,
      "EditedText": "That is my one day in Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14194,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 520435,
      "EditedText": "When is the next meeting then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ID": 14194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 520436,
      "EditedText": "Tuesday 5 October at 2 o'clock. Members will be notified of the room."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14194,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 520440,
      "EditedText": "May I record an early apology for the next meeting to save the clerk time later?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.3151548+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Progress",
      "HeadingID": 14191,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14191,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 520317,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, I misread the paper. I thought that\"Being considered by Justice and Home Affairs Committee\"meant that that committee was considering them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 520328,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we are entitled to change that rule: it is fixed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 520333,
      "EditedText": "I do not know how we can change the rules once we have started, because people may have submitted petitions with only one signatory. It might be inappropriate to change the rules when some petitions are in the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 520337,
      "EditedText": "I realise that we are talking about keeping things under review, but my problem with that is that we might then pick which corporate body's petition can be admitted and which can not. That is where we would get into difficulties, especially when we made close decisions. However, I accept that we can keep it fairly loose for now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 520339,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 520343,
      "EditedText": "In the last meeting, I mentioned the small claims forms that exist in the alleged do-it-yourself process in the civil courts. I think that a form that has boxes for people to fill in will help them. It would not impede them or prescribe the process.I suggest that there should be a model petition. Petitioners should be able to follow it—after all, people are able to fill in their simplified divorce forms. That would bring a little bit of discipline to the petition process. I do not know what the role of the clerks would be in helping people to fill out the forms. Steve, are you entitled to— You are not allowed to answer me, are you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14192,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 520376,
      "EditedText": "Again, I would include example text for people to follow. It may sound ridiculous, but people feel insecure—I know I do—when they are filling in forms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 520381,
      "EditedText": "I am looking at a copy that we received at a previous briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14192,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 520385,
      "EditedText": "I have just compared the two versions and everything appears to be all right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14193,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 520401,
      "EditedText": "But a situation could arise where the Public Petitions Committee might want to meet in public away from the Parliament, to deal with something of local concern. On other occasions, we might want to go out as the Public Petitions Committee, but without holding an official meeting, so as to reduce costs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 520413,
      "EditedText": "Just keep saying that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee is very busy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14193,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 520416,
      "EditedText": "We should advise the petitioner on what is happening. Having been a lawyer for many years, I know that the worst thing to do with a client is not to tell them why they are not hearing from you. Even if nothing is happening, you should write to tell them why. It is important to report back to petitioners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Liaison Group",
      "HeadingID": 14193,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 520424,
      "EditedText": "I know, but I was wondering about public guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14194,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 520431,
      "EditedText": "That would be fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6441761+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13438,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 495441,
      "EditedText": "There is one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13438,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 495446,
      "EditedText": "I have a committee meeting too, so I will not be able to make it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 495451,
      "EditedText": "I will give Michael my copy."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495452",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 495452,
      "EditedText": "Issues 1 and 2 are about the timing of decision time. The revised paper identifies the status quo as an option, which was not the case with the previous paper. Other than that, it is substantially the same."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 495454,
      "EditedText": "That is an interesting concept. I am in favour of the 5 o'clock decision time. It allows ministers to go out on visits and hold meetings; it is also clear for all members when decision time is. Mike's idea that we could vary the time is sensible, as long as it is the exception for specific, high-profile debates and members are given advance notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 495455,
      "EditedText": "I echo that. Having decision time at 12.30 pm on specific occasions, such as an emergency bill, would not be a problem if we had prior notice in the business motion the previous week. There must be prior notification and it should happen only occasionally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 495458,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 495461,
      "EditedText": "There is flexibility. If one looks at the clock—not that I ever watch the clock—one sees that voting does not always start at exactly 5 o'clock. It is right that the Presiding Officer is flexible, as long as 12.30 pm or 5 o'clock do not become 12.45 pm or 5.15 pm on every occasion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 495462,
      "EditedText": "The Presiding Officer is being flexible, so I do not think that we have to change anything.Issues 3 and 4 are about holding a vote again because of an error, and points of order being raised during divisions and elections. That paper has not been changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 495463,
      "EditedText": "It is clear that votes should be taken again because of an error in the system or confusion. I would not define an error as a member pressing the wrong button. When voting is more complicated, for example, when we deal with legislation, we must be more careful that voting is done in the right way. If there are errors, they must be picked up quickly. That links with the fact that our present electronic voting system is less than satisfactory. I thank John for referring to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body and the bureau the issue of ensuring that we have the proper voting system for the new chamber. That is crucial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 495465,
      "EditedText": "There is some scepticism about display screens. I have been riding the hobby-horse of display screens for some time. It is important that there is a display screen—or several—in the new chamber, to give information. It should show the countdown of speakers' time, which I understand the new clocks will display. The display screen should also show the list of speakers. A disadvantage of the present system is that the list of speakers is available to the clerks and the occupant of the chair, but not to other members. A displayed list would not inhibit members entering the debate—although each party would put forward speakers, the Presiding Officer is flexible enough to take additional contributions. It would be useful for members in the chamber and for the public to know who would speak, and for members to know at which stage they would be called to speak. On too many occasions, members have worked on speeches, have expected to be called and have not been. That is frustrating. It would be better to see a list of speakers on the screen at the start of the debate. It would be ideal to have individual screens, as in the assembly in Wales. If we did not have that, a display screen that showed who was to be called and which gave other information about the debate would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 495466,
      "EditedText": "I am sympathetic to Mike's point, but it might be too rigid to have a list of members who will speak. How would members participate in a debate to react to what somebody else had said? We must give flexibility to the Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 495468,
      "EditedText": "I was fascinated by what Michael said about having individual screens. I did not know that the Welsh had that—it seems a great idea. Is it practical, or is it too expensive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 495475,
      "EditedText": "I understand that, but I think that we should try things and see how they work. If the screen showed only the next two speakers, that might be fine. However, I would like to have a list of speakers, either on our desks—which would be the right way to do it—or on the wall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 495477,
      "EditedText": "Join the club."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 495485,
      "EditedText": "Issue 11 has been deleted from the agenda as it is a matter for the SPCB. Issues 12, 14 and 15 are being handled by the bureau. Issue 16 concerns the time available for parliamentary business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 495486,
      "EditedText": "That issue relates to Donald Gorrie's paper, to Tom McCabe's letter to the Presiding Officer, and to a bureau discussion paper that is on the agenda. It is important to start the discussion by saying that we do not know what legislative time we shall require. We are not yet in a position to know whether we have too little time for meetings of the Parliament or too much time for committees.I broadly agree with the bureau's opinions. Monday afternoons should be available for committee meetings—at the moment, it is a little vague as to whether they are for committee time or for constituency time. That does not mean that committees must meet on Monday afternoons. However, we must make it clear that they are available, although we accept that a number of members—especially those from far-flung parts of the country—have said that it will be difficult to get here for meetings early on Monday afternoons.A second question is whether the Parliament should meet at the same time as committees on a Wednesday morning. I am inclined to agree with the Presiding Officer: because the system of Parliament and committee meetings is untested, we should, at this early stage, avoid a collision that would mean that some members automatically could not take part in Parliament because they were in committee. Such a collision might become necessary in future, but we should not change standing orders to make it possible until we know whether we need to.There are other solutions. One of them is mentioned in point 3, which was added to Tom McCabe's paper and has been referred to the bureau. It refers to the extension of meeting time in the evening, which is the solution that I favour at the moment. Wednesday mornings would give us a maximum of an extra three hours a week. We could easily have another hour and a half on a Wednesday, simply by extending the meeting to 6.30 pm. I recognise the family-friendly nature of the Parliament, but in every job people have to do overtime from time to time—there is virtually no job in which people can say that they go home at 5 o'clock and that is it. We could extend the meeting to 6.30 pm, and have members' business—which is optional, and not attended by everybody—from 6.30 pm to 7 pm. We could do the same on Thursday, although I am not sure that we need to at this stage. However, that option would give an extra three hours in total without taking up Wednesday morning and without clashing with committees. We know that pressure on committee space, let alone time, is high at the moment.Having heard the bureau's discussion and having talked to members of my party, I favour the option of extending Wednesday meetings of the Parliament to 6.30 pm. That should not be the norm, but should be the first option to extend Parliament time. Only after a Wednesday extension would Thursday extensions be considered, and only after that—when we had already added three hours—should we consider using Wednesday mornings, which would require a change of the standing orders, to allow Parliament to meet at the same time as committees.John, I think I am right in saying that no change in standing orders is required for the Parliament to meet beyond 5 o'clock. We could have decision time at 5 pm and move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 495489,
      "EditedText": "We seem to be having an outbreak of consensus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 495490,
      "EditedText": "On this issue, but I am not so sure about other issues on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 495494,
      "EditedText": "There is a practical implication of committees meeting at the same time as the Parliament, which is shortage of staff in certain areas, including the official report. I understand that, of all the options, the most expensive is to have committees meeting at the same time as the Parliament. That is not to say that it should not be done, but in my view it is one reason why it should be the last option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 495496,
      "EditedText": "One of the key questions is that of members being able to get home. Many members stay on a Wednesday night, but we should not sit until an hour when it would be impossible for members to get home by public transport and go to their bed without meeting themselves on the way out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 495497,
      "EditedText": "I am one of the people who travel all the time. I dearly love Edinburgh—it is Scotland's finest city."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 495500,
      "EditedText": "We seem to have a consensus of opinion that the existing arrangements are too restrictive. We are uncertain about what the pace of changes should be and the direction that they should take, but we agree that it would be sensible to loosen up the standing orders to allow for the various options that have been canvassed to be taken. At this stage, however, we are not anxious to remove the proscription on simultaneous meetings of Parliament and committees. We can return to that issue in next May's review of standing orders and at any time thereafter. Broadly, we are agreed that standing orders should be loosened up so that we can determine what the shape of the working week needs to be.That takes care of the following item on the agenda as well.Issue 17, which we will deal with now, was one of the papers that was revised. It deals with whether questions, a debate or both should follow ministerial statements. The paper was amended to take into account the possibility that members might not want to have a debate on a ministerial statement immediately after the statement but at some other time. That is an extra option, not a conclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 495502,
      "EditedText": "If the Executive had provided a debate on last week's statement on the water industry, would the time that there was between the receipt of the minister's statement and the debate have been adequate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 495503,
      "EditedText": "No, not at all. If I remember correctly, I received the statement at some time mid-morning—I would have to ask Ian Campbell to confirm this as he gave it to me, but I think it was around half-past 11. The questions were to take place early that afternoon, so there was enough time for two spokespeople to prepare questions but not to brief a number of speakers or to consider the detail of what was said. However, the Administration did not propose that the statement was strong enough to have the burden of a debate placed upon it, I suppose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 495506,
      "EditedText": "We could ask Mr McCabe this afternoon about the Executive's intentions. Its general approach appears to be consensual and Mr McCabe might give us some information that would help us to come to a decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 495507,
      "EditedText": "The proposition in the paper that questions could follow the statement immediately and that a timetabled debate would follow at the next opportunity is a good one. That would enable more members to be briefed so that there might be a discussion about a paper by people who had read the paper. That would be revolutionary, at least as far as the practice at Westminster is concerned. However, there will be occasions when the Executive has difficulty in providing the information in time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 495510,
      "EditedText": "We can raise that with Mr McCabe this afternoon. His opinion is clear and strongly stated as well. We will try to come to some sort of consensual arrangement, although it does not look like that will be possible. We might have to have a vote on that at some point but, hey, that is politics.Last time, we tried to dispose of item 19, which is to do with the lunchtime gap. It is back with us because of legal advice—it appears that we would have to change standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 495511,
      "EditedText": "All the members of the Parliamentary Bureau thought that the matter had been finished with, then it came back. Could the committee clerk elaborate on the legal advice that makes it impossible to put item 19 into the business motion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 495516,
      "EditedText": "You do not think that this is a matter for standing orders but you want it remitted to the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 495521,
      "EditedText": "The present arrangements seriously disadvantage the Liberal Democrats."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 495523,
      "EditedText": "My views on that are well known. Is this the right forum to raise the issue of my party's disadvantage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 495526,
      "EditedText": "Even if it is not, say your piece and get it on the record. If we can build your comments into the discussion, we will."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 495527,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, the Liberal Democrat spokespeople get only four minutes, I think, and not many of us are called to speak. Our total number of column inches in each debate is significantly less than, for instance, the Conservatives, who have roughly the same number of MSPs as we do. The fact that we are in coalition with the Labour party is relevant, but we have less chance to contribute to debates than members of other parties. That issue needs to be examined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 495529,
      "EditedText": "If the debate is led by a minister, the minister gets his or her time to speak, the SNP and Conservative spokespeople get roughly the same amount of time, and then everyone else usually gets four minutes each. Liberal Democrats take our chances with other people and get no summing-up rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 495532,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that the Presiding Officer would have to consider that. I am not sure that that is a matter for us, but we can hear the point of view, record it and transmit it to the Presiding Officer and the bureau as a matter that has been raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 495534,
      "EditedText": "In a yes/no vote one can go only one way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 495538,
      "EditedText": "I think that we might well do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 495541,
      "EditedText": "Someone at the previous meeting mentioned that a little courtesy could be shown. However, when members making speeches say that they will take no more interventions, other members are still popping up. The Presiding Officer could be tougher on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 495544,
      "EditedText": "You suggested a more flexible approach to supplementary questions, which would result in fewer questions. The alternative to having fewer questions in that case would be to allocate more time to questions. How do you feel about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 495546,
      "EditedText": "Are there any questions to Mike?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 495552,
      "EditedText": "My interpretation was that he was trying to ask a question, but that he did not phrase it very well. Supplementary questions must relate to the question, or to the answer that is given to the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 495553,
      "EditedText": "We can move on to issue 25, which is about holding answers given in response to written questions. I know that a number of Scottish National party members have been concerned about that. Do you have evidence to give on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 495554,
      "EditedText": "We seem, with the exception of Keith Raffan, to be asking more questions than previously. It is inevitable, then, that we will get more holding answers, but there is concern that holding answers are being used too extensively. I have personal experience of that.Ministers are trying to move away from the use of such answers. There have been problems, particularly during the summer recess. I would like—with your permission, convener—to extend into that area as I think the issues are linked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 495556,
      "EditedText": "There is a need to have written questions and answers during summer recess. It is an obvious requirement that should be introduced to Westminster and that has been debated there. It must be recognised that people might be on holiday during the summer and that it might be more difficult to get things done. We must examine the issue of written questions in two ways.We must first ask if the present system works. If answers are received within two weeks, then the system will work. Can we improve the system? We probably can, but the principal improvement would be in resources. We are not in charge of those resources, so all we can do is recognise that there are difficulties for the Executive, particularly in the summer. During the summer there should be a slightly different procedure for written answers. We could, perhaps, wait three weeks.A system for priority questions should be introduced for those requiring urgent answers. As long as such a system is not abused, it will benefit both ministers and members. The way to stop abuse is to have any question that a member wishes to raise during recess or when Parliament meets certified by the clerks. There should be a procedure for that.If a member wishes a question to be treated as a priority question, that member cannot merely say that it is a priority question. That priority must be proved. There will always be arguments about that, but we have arguments about the phrasing of or eligibility of motions. We will get it right through the interaction between the members and the clerks.The ministers should endeavour to give a written answer within a fortnight. They should be sparing with holding answers. There will be occasions when their use is necessary, but ministers must be prepared to justify the use of holding answers on each occasion on which they are used. As a quid pro quo, time allowed for producing a written answer might be extended by a week or so.There should at all times be provision for urgent answers. The most important example of that was during the situation at Continental Tyres Ltd, when there was no procedure for getting a quick answer from a minister. In such a case and in that of Levi Strauss (UK) Ltd there should be the opportunity to get a quick answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 495560,
      "EditedText": "It must be. If one has an emergency motion to lodge it is the Presiding Officer's decision to accept it or not. I would not expect an emergency motion to do more than speed past the Presiding Officer's desk, if it was obviously not an emergency. The Presiding Officer and, on his behalf, the clerks should have the ability to certify an emergency question that would require an answer in 48 hours, or whatever period is decided.I would be surprised if there were to be more than two or three such questions a week. There might not even be that many, but we need to refine our questioning system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 495565,
      "EditedText": "There would have to be ways of stopping emergency questions being abused. One man's emergency is the bee in another man's bonnet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 495567,
      "EditedText": "We must, in any case, overcome the over-zealous. There is a problem—emergency questions must be raised. That should not suffer because some people try to abuse the system. People will try to abuse the system no matter what we say and no matter what the standing orders say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 495569,
      "EditedText": "Is the proper mechanism for such questions to go not to the clerks—who might become political footballs—but either to the business managers or directly to the Presiding Officer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 495572,
      "EditedText": "That would work, because if we submitted emergency questions to our business manager every five minutes, it would not take him too long to tell us to stop; he could not be bothered with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 495573,
      "EditedText": "This would be a useful point to raise with Mr McCabe this afternoon—we have to talk to him about something. Laughter. We will have plenty to talk to him about.Does that take care of items 25 and 26, Mike?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 495577,
      "EditedText": "The Justice and Home Affairs Committee wants to bring in its own bill, on which it is currently taking evidence. It is unlikely that we would give up our bill for someone else's."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 495585,
      "EditedText": "I go back to the philosophical point that I made earlier: if the time belongs to the Parliament, the Parliament can allocate that time. My view is that the rest of the time then belongs to the Executive, but I think that the committee will find that Tom McCabe takes a different view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 495587,
      "EditedText": "All members—and certainly all the members of my group—want to make the present standing orders work as well as possible, although they are keen for there to be revisions within a definable time scale. I hope that this committee will achieve its objective of presenting some revisions by the end of October, before undertaking a full review. The revisions should be designed to make the work of members easier, because the Parliament belongs to its members, rather than to any party or Government. Standing orders should make the job of members more obvious, more transparent and easier to execute. We are going some way towards doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Executive Half-Sitting Days",
      "HeadingID": 13441,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 13441,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 495593,
      "EditedText": "There is also an issue of principle. My view—and it may seem harsh—is that there is no merit in the argument.First, Dennis Canavan is not a member of a political party, but an individual, so I am not sure why he should be allocated a half day of Parliament's time.Secondly, I believe that Robin, Tommy and Dennis are called frequently in major debates and are permitted a healthy share of speaking time. It has also been a long time since I saw one of the members in question—Tommy—in the chamber.I think that there is a good deal of fluff around this issue. I am not sure whether it is necessary for these members to be allocated time—or whether they deserve it—on the basis of their share of the vote or participation in the work of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Executive Half-Sitting Days",
      "HeadingID": 13441,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 13441,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 495597,
      "EditedText": "I will not rehearse all the points that Mike has made, but I will endorse them. This Parliament was elected by proportional representation, and it is only right that members should be represented proportionate to their numbers. I take the view that Dennis Canavan is an individual member, rather than the representative of a party, but we should make some room for independents in the future. Independently minded people or parties such as the Highlands and Islands Alliance—I was about to say the Highland brigade—need to know that the Parliament is thinking about their needs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 495609,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is a weakness in your argument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 495613,
      "EditedText": "Murray asked the first relevant question—about the role of the deputy convener. Is he or she seen as part of a power structure, in which case is it worth arguing about? I am not clear about that. Secondly, I gather that there is no money for the committee to meet elsewhere, whereas the European Committee can go all over the place. One visit a year to Auchtermuchty is our ration, if that. If, as I understand it, we are to break up into groups of three or more—Noah's ark plus inflation—as some committees will do to visit schools and local authorities and so on, does the leader of that group need a title? Do we need to have deputy conveners to lead the smaller groups around? If so, it may be necessary for us to have deputy conveners. However, if they are merely a substitute for the convener and not part of the power structure, I am all for 5(b)."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 495614,
      "EditedText": "Under the standing orders, the role of the deputy convener relates simply to conducting meetings—an on-going role is not envisaged. The convener of a committee has a relationship with the clerks in terms of programming the work of the committee; if the convener were to be unavailable for a prolonged period, the deputy convener might have to do that. It appears that the deputy convener is not necessarily the convener of a sub-committee or of a deputation. He or she simply stands in for the convener when the convener cannot be present. That indicates that the position is a relatively unimportant one and a matter of no great ceremony or dignity. The best way forward on this is either for the committee to choose a permanent deputy convener, or to agree that when the committee needs a deputy convener it will be decided on the spot; that is 5(b), and I am quite happy to go with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 495615,
      "EditedText": "The choice between options 1 and 2 is a political dispute that I could do without. Option 5(b) takes that element of dispute away and makes the issue simpler to deal with. I am in favour of that.To ask a technical question, how long can we let this lie? If we choose option 5(b), we need to amend the standing order substantially. The standing order prescribes that there shall be deputy conveners; the Parliament is disobeying that at the moment. How long can one disobey with impunity? What happens if we disobey standing orders indefinitely?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 495620,
      "EditedText": "Did we deal with the problem of the oldest member not wanting to sit in the chair?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 495621,
      "EditedText": "That is the third issue, to which we are just coming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 495627,
      "EditedText": "It is an option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 495629,
      "EditedText": "It would mean that business managers would not have to ask all members their ages, only to be knocked back by certain members who would not give their age."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Representation)",
      "HeadingID": 13443,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 13443,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 495636,
      "EditedText": "This is a technical matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 495638,
      "EditedText": "Paper 6 deals with the letter from George Lyon. Some of the correspondence has been heated, some of it not. There seems to be some difficulty between this committee and the Standards Committee. The question is whether this committee wants a paper from the clerks or whether it wants to deal with the matter in the course of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 495640,
      "EditedText": "Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 495642,
      "EditedText": "That appeared to be the message that I was getting as well, but it may not reflect everybody's view. I would rather have the issue resolved politically than procedurally. It is a matter for the business managers to sort out among themselves, if they can. If they cannot do so, we may have a part to play. If we rewrote standing orders, they would have to recognise all sorts of possibilities that do not currently apply. That would take us into the institutionalisation of party political positions—something in which I hope not to be mired too deeply. If we ask for a paper that examines the issues, which we would receive in a couple of weeks, that would allow time for talks behind the scenes—behind the throne—to resolve the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 495650,
      "EditedText": "The paper would have to address that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Witnesses (Interests)",
      "HeadingID": 13445,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13445,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 495654,
      "EditedText": "By and large, the people who come before committees are there because they have an interest. It is possible that someone could appear in a private capacity while getting an inducement from somewhere else, but normally it is because they have an interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Witnesses (Interests)",
      "HeadingID": 13445,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13445,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 495655,
      "EditedText": "That is a key point. As members declare interests before committees, there is no harm in asking people who appear before committees, at the beginning of a meeting, whether they have an interest in the matter that is being discussed. It is possible that people may come as individuals. We have seen that at Westminster, and Alex Neil raises a fair point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Witnesses (Interests)",
      "HeadingID": 13445,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13445,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 495656,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure of that. My experience has been that committees know the reasons for inviting people to meetings. It would seem strange to go through such a process. On the surface, it seems unnecessary, but I shall be interested in what the paper suggests. We should know whom we are inviting and why we are inviting them, and we should know anything else that we want to know about them before we invite them. The proposal seems a bit of a tail-end-Charlie way of inviting people to submit evidence to a committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee of the Whole Parliament",
      "HeadingID": 13446,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ID": 13446,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 495660,
      "EditedText": "We should have a report and a draft suggestion for change. We should decide whether we can address the issues that have been raised with a quick draft."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee of the Whole Parliament",
      "HeadingID": 13446,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ID": 13446,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 495661,
      "EditedText": "Okay. We agree on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up",
      "HeadingID": 13450,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ID": 13450,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 495672,
      "EditedText": "My view is that the Parliament would benefit from greater strictness from the Presiding Officers on a number of issues. That is a personal opinion that others may not share."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up",
      "HeadingID": 13450,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ID": 13450,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 495673,
      "EditedText": "I will not ask you to prepare a full report, but could you give some thought to the matter and return to a further meeting with some of the problems that you have identified? We could discuss the matter and send a further report or a letter to Sir David, asking him to issue guidance as appropriate. We are involved in an interlocking discussion, with a number of other committees, about the evolution of the Parliament. Some matters are not our job, but that does not mean that we do not have a role in shaping what is happening.Donald Gorrie indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "House of Commons Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13451,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ID": 13451,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 495674,
      "EditedText": "Item 13 is simply a verbal update. We continue to attempt to arrange a meeting with the House of Commons Procedure Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 495677,
      "EditedText": "I propose that we do not have redrafted standing orders for the next meeting on 5 October, but that final decisions are taken in the light of today's meeting. Thereafter, once the committee has decided on its objectives for each issue, we will come back with concrete proposals that members can discuss at the first meeting after the recess. Is that acceptable?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1438458+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 495679,
      "EditedText": "Meeting adjourned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1438458+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 495684,
      "EditedText": "So you are largely responsible for this Parliament, then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1438458+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ContributionID": 495686,
      "EditedText": "Members will know Iain Smith, the Deputy Minister for Parliament, who is sitting on my left. On my right is John Ewing, who can perhaps inform members—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 523.0,
      "ContributionID": 495689,
      "EditedText": "A brief comment, convener: the Executive recognises that both procedures and standing orders are important. Iain and I are pleased to come to this meeting and to have the opportunity to speak to a committee that recognises the importance of procedures and standing orders in the operation of the Parliament. In the memorandum that we submitted, we have tried to reflect our hope of seeing a fairly flexible situation develop with the Parliament's standing orders, but not one that would undermine the certainty and consistency that is required. For that reason, we welcome the measured approach that you have taken. To echo one of the points made in the memorandum, we are aware that this is a young Parliament and that the standing orders have not been fully tested under wide-ranging circumstances. The Executive is aware of that, and we hope that the Procedures Committee will take a similar view.We are concerned that the standing orders that evolve will help to raise the standing of this Parliament in the eyes of the public. That is important. The public must see, through the operation of the standing orders, a Parliament that is trying its best to live up to the founding principles that the people of Scotland endorsed when the Parliament was created.I hope that our memo has been of some assistance. We are here today to expand on it where necessary and to be of some assistance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 527.0,
      "ContributionID": 495691,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to expand on the view that we tried to put across when we answered the question earlier this month. I say very strongly that the Executive fully realises that the Opposition's job is to test the Executive, to probe and to question. Under no circumstances is the Executive advancing a position that would limit that ability. There is, however, a strong view that we must be aware of parliamentary processes in terms of efficiency and the call on the public purse. This Parliament is not over-enthusiastic to duplicate Westminster—although hundreds of years of Westminster experience should not be overturned simply because of its source—but if a huge amount of time is being used to obtain information that is, if not readily available, then relatively readily available through other sources, we would legitimately want Parliament to examine that. I want to underline that the Executive recognises the job of Opposition parties. Despite what I have said, there is no intention of making that job more difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 529.0,
      "ContributionID": 495692,
      "EditedText": "Is it envisaged that ministers are likely to respond to questions by saying that the information sought is on the public record and that the member should go to the Scottish Parliament information centre? That has not been done to date, but is that development expected?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 495698,
      "EditedText": "This morning, the committee discussed the question of bedding in a new system rather than undertaking wholesale changes. There was a fairly clear view that one of the changes that could be introduced immediately was to have a slightly longer question time—lasting an hour—which would allow roughly the same number of questions and the supplementaries to be taken. It is only if that does not work that we should look at other changes. Are you saying, Tom, that you would not want to lengthen the time to an hour as part of the immediate changes? If that did not happen, there would be a concomitant reduction in the number of questions being answered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 550.0,
      "ContributionID": 495702,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that Mr Mike Russell did not mean to suggest that members were abusing their lunch times."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 556.0,
      "ContributionID": 495705,
      "EditedText": "My point is in response to Mike's comments. I do not share the view that ministers' answers have been overly long. A look at the Official Report shows that answers are fairly short and sharp. Members bob up and down fairly regularly during question time. However, taking Tom's point, we should all pay attention to the length of questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 558.0,
      "ContributionID": 495706,
      "EditedText": "I want to move on to the paragraph about the procedure for written questions, in which we wondered about your views on how the Parliament might deal more satisfactorily with emergency or urgent questions. The point was raised in relation to the question asked during the recess about Continental Tyres, which the Presiding Officer suggested should be given priority. However, answers came through no faster. Although we do not want to get into the situation at Continental, we feel that there is a clear need for a fast response to certain questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 574.0,
      "ContributionID": 495714,
      "EditedText": "There is a danger that a member would expect the business manager to have a good reason for knocking back a question, so more of the business manager's time might be used up as he defends his decision. What is needed is for someone who is beyond challenge to make the decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 566.0,
      "ContributionID": 495710,
      "EditedText": "We anticipated that but thought that a system that mediated urgency through the business manager for the political groups or through a decision of the Presiding Officer would be a protection against abuse of the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 568.0,
      "ContributionID": 495711,
      "EditedText": "That might be helpful. The existing work load of business managers would have to be taken into account. There are a number of times during the day when business managers have to be available. At the Parliamentary Bureau today, business managers expressed concern about their need to be contacted in certain situations. I do not think that the Executive would be hostile to the committee's proposal, but the availability of business managers for proper consultation might become an issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 495720,
      "EditedText": "The minister will admit, however, that people at Westminster tend to go for holding or rote questions. The consultative steering group report contains much criticism of that and the form of our question time deliberately did not follow that model. However, even with the reduction in time, one is beginning to see a tendency towards catch-all questions that allow members to ask a number of things. The clerks and others think that that is against standing orders, but there will be more of it unless we have more topicality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 495721,
      "EditedText": "If catch-all questions are a problem that is developing in the Parliament, we should take active steps to discourage them. They go against the spirit that it was hoped question time would embody in the new Parliament. It is up to the parties to encourage members to ask questions that are more concise and less general."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ContributionID": 495723,
      "EditedText": "The Executive is firm in its view that eight days does not seriously detract from topicality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 615.0,
      "ContributionID": 495734,
      "EditedText": "That casts light on an aspect of it that I am sure many of us—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 629.0,
      "ContributionID": 495741,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 633.0,
      "ContributionID": 495743,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether timetabling is the right place to raise the issue that detained us briefly this morning, which is the allocation of parliamentary time, particularly to members' bills, or whether you would like to raise that at the end?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495746",
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      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 639.0,
      "ContributionID": 495746,
      "EditedText": "In that case I will accept the opportunity to move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 641.0,
      "ContributionID": 495747,
      "EditedText": "We would like to raise a point that arose in connection with paragraph 29 in your paper, Tom: ministerial statements. Opposition members appreciated the opportunity to see the statement on the water industry in advance of the debate last week, which allowed us to frame questions. We are concerned that there will be circumstances under which it would be reasonable for a debate to follow questions. In such circumstances, is it intended to make the minister's statement available even earlier, to give members time to research and prepare positions? Alternatively, will it be acceptable to detach the statements and questions from the debate, which could follow at a later date? Perhaps you will look favourably upon both, depending on the circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 643.0,
      "ContributionID": 495748,
      "EditedText": "There may often be circumstances in which it is difficult to give useful advance notice of a minister's statement. I think that the Executive would be minded to do its best to make the statement available to Opposition parties in advance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 645.0,
      "ContributionID": 495749,
      "EditedText": "There is a worthwhile caveat here: there may be genuinely difficult circumstances, because of sensitivity or because the minister is at the other end of the country and is not able to sign things off. The Executive has a general will to make statements available in advance whenever that can be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 651.0,
      "ContributionID": 495752,
      "EditedText": "I notice that, in his note to the committee, Kenny Gibson asks for all statements by 5 o'clock the night before. I appreciate his point of view. We are establishing a reasonable practice of statements—and motions—being supplied as early as possible, but I am sure that the minister will be mindful of the need to keep that practice going in the long term, so that we can encourage constructive debate. As I said this morning, in reality, the earlier material is seen, the more likely we are to have an informed debate; the later it is seen, the more likely we are to have a rammy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 653.0,
      "ContributionID": 495753,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We are keen to ensure that, as in the Parliament, constructive relationships develop at a reasonable pace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 657.0,
      "ContributionID": 495755,
      "EditedText": "You will be aware, convener, that we submitted a view to the Parliamentary Bureau, which discussed it. The original suggestion was that, first, Monday afternoons become available for committees. That was envisaged by the original consultative steering group report. Tuesdays are available for committees and we could consider Parliament meetings, when necessary, on Wednesday mornings, accompanied by a maximum of two committee meetings. When that was discussed by the Parliamentary Bureau, there was a view that we could put that suggestion on hold at the moment. The Executive reserved its position on that. There was an alternative view that we could consider extending the hours, for example into a Wednesday evening. We want to be mindful that the concept of a family-friendly Parliament—an often used phrase—was also embodied in the consultative steering group report. Some members have strong views about the hours that should be available to Parliament and about how we should use them. At the moment, it is best for me to say that while the Executive's mind is not closed on the issue, we are aware that it is extremely sensitive and important for some people. Before any firm decisions are made, the wide variety of views that exists should be considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 661.0,
      "ContributionID": 495757,
      "EditedText": "If I were Sir David I would have said, \"Is there a question coming?\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 663.0,
      "ContributionID": 495758,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the official report could put a question mark at the end of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 671.0,
      "ContributionID": 495762,
      "EditedText": "It is also worth stressing that it would be foolhardy not to acknowledge the great wave of enthusiasm that there is for the committees of the Parliament to meet. There is every indication that that enthusiasm will grow rather than diminish. Monday afternoons and Tuesdays are available for committees, but as the committees perform their roles of dealing with legislation and producing reports, the founding principle of this Parliament—that it be geared strongly to the work of committees—may force us to re-examine the time available to committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 675.0,
      "ContributionID": 495764,
      "EditedText": "We would be prepared to look at the 15 half days that are available to non-Executive parties; we would consider sympathetically a redistribution of the slots that are available. Perhaps the single-member parties that you mentioned could take one of those slots, or the other parties could assist them by giving them an hour from one of those slots, rather than a full slot. That would be a sympathetic consideration of the requirements of the two single-member parties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 686.0,
      "ContributionID": 495769,
      "EditedText": "We are proposing to be generous with the Parliament's time. That is a key issue. As the Opposition is given 15 half days, it seems reasonable that the Greens and the Scottish Socialist party—taking the issue of independence aside—should be given half a day. The general issue, which we will come to, concerns to whom the time belongs. The Parliament clearly allocates all its time—with certain exceptions—to the Executive. In those circumstances, surely the Parliament should be able to say that it wants a little of its time to be allocated to minority parties that can play a full part in our proportional system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 688.0,
      "ContributionID": 495770,
      "EditedText": "There is a great distinction between what Mike would consider to be Parliament time and what the Executive and I would consider to be Executive time. Our firm view is that there are certain slots of time that are allocated to non-Executive parties—with certain slots of time allocated for the work of committees—and that the remainder of the Parliament's time is for the Executive to advance its programme. That is why we have an Executive, and the remainder of the time should be available to the Executive for that purpose. A compromise may be that those of us who have an interest in this Parliament could examine the time that is available to all of us, to decide, if we had a concern for single-member parties, what we could offer up to alleviate their concerns."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 694.0,
      "ContributionID": 495773,
      "EditedText": "If nobody has any related issues to raise, our last question concerns members' bills. The matter is raising some concern, both in regard to the allocation of time in Parliament meetings and how committee time might be allocated. We are aware that there is a possibility that some bills might impact on committees that are already heavily committed, and we wondered what proposals the Executive might have or be prepared to introduce to allocate time for those purposes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 702.0,
      "ContributionID": 495777,
      "EditedText": "The ministers are excluded as well—good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 704.0,
      "ContributionID": 495778,
      "EditedText": "I think that that exhausts the topic. It remains for me to thank the ministers for coming this afternoon. I hope that you will allow us to firm up some of our proposals following your answers. I imagine that we might have differences in some details further down the line, but today's process was both useful and helpful. The committee is obliged to you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13438,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13438,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 495442,
      "EditedText": "Yes, from the Press Association—welcome.The agenda and papers have been circulated. I hope that we will go through the business quickly. The primary purpose of the meeting is to consider evidence given by business managers and other members with an interest in the topics that we are examining. Michael Russell wishes to give evidence as the SNP business manager, Lord James Douglas-Hamilton is unable to attend and the business managers from the Executive parties have arranged to meet us this afternoon. We will have an additional meeting at 4.15 pm. I ask the committee to gather at 4 o'clock to discuss how we will handle the questions. A paper has been circulated, which should help us to frame them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13438,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13438,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 495443,
      "EditedText": "I have given John Patterson notice that the time of the meeting causes a difficulty for me, but I will delay going to Inverness to stay for it. Can you indicate how long it might last?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13438,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13438,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 495447,
      "EditedText": "Those of us who can attend will attempt to cover all the issues. The response will come when we take the decisions on the recommendations next week; we will have the opportunity to see from the Official Report what was said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 495448,
      "EditedText": "Item 1 on the agenda is priority issues. Members have revised papers for a number of the priority issues; we will briefly note the changes. Mike might wish to give evidence on some of the original papers that have not been changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 495450,
      "EditedText": "Does John have a copy of the original papers, so that I can refer to all of them? I am carrying them in my head, but that is not necessarily the best way to carry them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 495453,
      "EditedText": "The addition of the status quo balances the paper. As a party, we are persuaded that decision time at 5 o'clock requires time to be organised properly. However, for high-profile debates, decision time at 12.30 pm might be required. There should be flexibility in the standing orders to allow decision time at 12.30 pm, at the end of the morning meeting, but the 5 o'clock decision time should remain the norm for the time being."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 495457,
      "EditedText": "Although the standing orders permit flexibility, members' expectation is that decision time will be at 5 o'clock because that is when we have had it, except when we are meeting as a committee. The standing orders should make clearer the circumstances in which 12.30 pm votes might be taken. It might be on a recommendation of the bureau, or, as I believe is the case at the moment—John can correct me—it might happen if Parliament agreed to take a vote at a different time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 495467,
      "EditedText": "I said that we must not be inflexible. It has been suggested that a firm list of speakers, as in the House of Lords, is the way forward. I do not think that it is. The danger is that points of order might be raised if somebody is listed as due to speak, but somebody else speaks instead. Most members will be helped by the list being displayed, as long as there is flexibility and members can speak as the spirit moves them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 495473,
      "EditedText": "The screen might simply display the next speaker, or the next two speakers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 495474,
      "EditedText": "Up to now, the Presiding Officer has been saying who the next speaker will be and who will follow. That is helpful, but I think that that is as far as we should go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 495479,
      "EditedText": "I will not say who was speaking at the time, but information for spectators about the person speaking and the subject being debated would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 495484,
      "EditedText": "Most of them are matters for the bureau. I notice that Tom McCabe's paper for this afternoon rightly identifies areas where the standing orders do not need to be changed, but where the housekeeping aspects should be improved—the bureau is taking that seriously. Donald Gorrie has previously raised the issue of the interrelationship between the committee and the bureau. There is a strong interrelationship: issues arise in the bureau that should properly be discussed here, and issues arise in the committee on which we can give guidance to the bureau.Issues 10, 13, 20 and 22 are all being considered by the bureau. Responsibility for budgetary control of committees should be shared by the SPCB, the bureau, the committee conveners and the committees. We are all aiming at the same thing, which is to ensure that the Parliament is open and accessible and that we go out to the country, and equally to ensure that we are seen to be responsible with public resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 495487,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 495488,
      "EditedText": "I am heartened by what Mike said; those suggestions would retain the family-friendliness that this Parliament was founded on. To extend on a Thursday would be a matter for discussion in due course, but I approve of late-night politics on a Wednesday, when people who work during the day but who would like to see the Parliament could come.I am a father of young children and I like to get back to the house, but if I am to stay here until 6.30 pm, I would not mind extending the meeting for a little longer, because I would be out that night anyway. It might be possible to go on even longer—to 7 pm, 7.30 pm, or even later—on a Wednesday. I would be in favour of that, as long as it was clear to all of us that Wednesdays were regular late nights, for which we would have to plan our diaries accordingly, and as long as it was clear to the public, so that they could come and see us after work—as I encourage them to do. I would prefer to have a late Wednesday and then not go on late on a Thursday, so that there was just one late night a week. At the moment, I would err on the side of caution, because we do not know the work that the legislative programme will involve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 495492,
      "EditedText": "The suggestions that have been made are reasonable, and I agree with Andy that it would be reasonable to extend the time for one evening, and to go on for a bit longer than Mike suggested.It would be useful to know how many members stay in Edinburgh on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings. The family-friendly thing is a great idea, but if getting on for half the members have to stay in Edinburgh anyway, the family-friendly aspect is lost and they might as well use the evening fully. At the moment, the load is still relatively light, because the legislative system has yet to get going, but it is important that we should discuss the time that we have available and that we should have measures ready, because once bills start to be produced, the treadmill will start. The Executive will start producing bills, reasonably soon some committees will start producing bills, and some individual members have already started producing bills.We could consider reducing the time of the recess, as has been suggested in the press. Tom McCabe is said to have remarked on that. Covering the school holidays is excellent, but we have three weeks' holiday at Christmas and new year, and most schools have only two weeks, so we could reduce recess time then. We must have measures in place to allow the Parliament fully to fulfil its task. One considerably extended evening would be a good first step. It would be interesting to see whether the whole system collapsed if there were committees at the same time as meetings of Parliament. It might be possible to experiment to see whether there was a clash, before we said that it could not be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 495505,
      "EditedText": "The earlier information comes from the Executive, the better and more constructive debates will be, although the Executive will worry that if it gives too much information away too quickly it will just be attacked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 495508,
      "EditedText": "That is a good summing-up of the situation. We will raise the matter with the minister in the afternoon.Issue 18 deals with who should sum up debates. You have raised that before, Mike, so I suspect that you have a point to make."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 495509,
      "EditedText": "This is a point on which the consensus will break down. I am tempted to force the matter to a vote while Andy is at the loo. However, as I am only giving evidence, not acting as a member of the committee, I will not.It is well known that there is a divergence of opinion on the matter. I think that, if a non-Executive party has introduced a topic for debate, it should have the right to sum up at the end of that debate. It should have the same privilege of opening and closing the debate that is accorded to the Executive on every other debate. For the Executive to want to sum up in that debate as well strikes me as a little churlish.The argument of the Executive is that it wants to bring information to the attention of members or respond to points that have been made, but that that can be done in the penultimate speech. If a summing-up speech is to conform to normal practice, it should not introduce new material at all but respond to the debate. It is not good enough simply to adopt the Westminster precedents when the precedents that have been set by local authorities and other Parliaments are quite convincing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 495513,
      "EditedText": "Everyone—from the Presiding Officer to Lord James, who has to leap to his feet in an almost Pavlovian manner every lunchtime to propose that the meeting be adjourned—agrees that the standing orders should be changed to give the Presiding Officer the power to adjourn without motion in specific instances, most notably at lunchtime but also in the case of disturbance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 495514,
      "EditedText": "We will agree that we will not bother to come back to the matter next week. We have made a decision on this little matter and the clerks can resolve it with legal advice and put it in the final report.Issue 20 has been dealt with, as have issues 22 and 21."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 495515,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a point about speeches and interventions. It is important that all parties have an understanding of the speaking times for opening and closing debates. There has been some confusion in recent weeks because the issue has not been worked out. There should be an agreement between the parties before each debate on the length of speeches. That would allow a simple calculation of the amount of time that is left for other speakers. The process is not clear at the moment and should be sharpened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 495520,
      "EditedText": "I think that the standard is 10 minutes for the opening speech with seven or eight for speeches that oppose the motion. In the all-day debate on the programme for government, Donald Dewar's opening speech was 20 minutes. Accordingly, there had to be a slot of 15 or 12 minutes for the opposition speakers. A table set out on a pro rata basis would be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 495522,
      "EditedText": "You shouldnae have gone into coalition, then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 495524,
      "EditedText": "I think that that it is a fair question for you to raise. We can discuss it with Iain Smith this afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 495525,
      "EditedText": "The Liberal Democrats have to fight their corner somewhere, but I do not know whether this is the right place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 495531,
      "EditedText": "Correct. That is the case for all issues that are outside the partnership agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 495540,
      "EditedText": "The feeling at our previous meeting was that this is not a matter for standing orders, but it is a matter on which we should express an opinion.Items further down the agenda will, I hope, reflect what we discussed and decided. There is a copy in the papers for this meeting of a letter containing our views on that, which I sent to Sir David Steel. I do not see that there is any scope to change the standing orders to influence that. It is, however, reasonable that we should review the topic as practice evolves. We are all still on an upward learning curve and that is an area in which things are not working as smoothly as one hopes they will."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 495543,
      "EditedText": "That is very wise, Murray. I see a way in which we can reach consensus on this issue. Many of us came at the issue from radically different positions—I was from the school of thought that said that a major change was required. Having seen the system operate in the past two or three weeks, I think that some incremental changes, rather than root-and-branch changes, to the suggestions of the consultative steering group might be needed.The major weakness at the moment is our inability to get the game going. If we compare the situation to a game of tennis, there are no volleys and returns—the ball just gets to the net and drops. The difficulty arises from further supplementary questions not being allowed during open questions. There is a suggestion that supplementary questions should be allowed from constituency or regional members on subjects that relate to their constituencies. I think that that is too narrow and I am glad that Tom McCabe is of the same view.The Presiding Officer must be allowed and encouraged to take supplementary questions from members other than the member who asked the original question. The first supplementary question should come from the member who asked the original question and the second and subsequent supplementary questions should come from a wider group in the chamber who have indicated their desire to speak.The downside of that is that fewer questions can be taken. It would reduce the number from the 20 or 22 questions that we get some days to 14 or 12. It would, however, be far better to have 12 substantial discussions in which points can be made and information given. I feel that ministers would prefer that to simply standing and giving their answers and sitting down again. Ministers do not at present have the chance to develop lines of argument or thought on particular issues.The key issue is about supplementary questions during open question time. Things are beginning to work a bit better in terms of closed questions, but a little more flexibility would be appropriate. Once Alex Salmond has asked the two or three supplementary questions that he is permitted, it should be possible to widen the debate a bit. That is not happening—we move on to questions from David McLetchie almost by rote. It is important that that is relaxed a bit.In terms of immediate changes to the standing orders, I would be prepared to leave things as they are for the time being. We will be able to conduct our full review of standing orders in the light of better experience.I would, however, suggest one further change. I think that eight days is too long a period of notice for lodging questions. It is impossible to have topical and up-to-date questions if questions must be lodged eight days in advance. I can see no reason for that.It would be possible to table questions on a Friday for the following week, which would leave two extra days. It would not be impossible to lodge questions on a Monday and that would allow us to hear questions that were topical and up to date. We could examine that again to see whether it has worked properly, when we fully review the standing orders.It is tempting to say that we should have a session for named ministers, but until question time works more flexibly, I do think we can say that. We need some immediate changes and some further changes when we have examined the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 495548,
      "EditedText": "I know that there is pressure for that, but I do not favour that option. My view is that because there is only a day and a half of plenary meetings it would be overkill to have another period of questions on Wednesdays, given the distinct possibility that there will also be written questions to deal with. If plenary meetings took place on three days a week, Tuesday and Thursday might have been suitable for questions. It would be difficult to justify having question time on two days out of two."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 495551,
      "EditedText": "We should learn from that. What we say in the discussions here should be heard by other members. They should know that they cannot simply go off the subject of the original question. Mr Gallie was not slapped down as quickly as I thought he would be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 495555,
      "EditedText": "We will take issues 25 and 26 together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 495558,
      "EditedText": "Ultimately, that decision is for the Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 495563,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Andy. How do we lay down the guidelines by which the clerks would make decisions? If a question then has to go to the Presiding Officer, that will add to the time and will detract from the urgency of the question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 495571,
      "EditedText": "The business managers are a good filter, because they can tell their party members quite bluntly that there is no chance of a question being accepted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 495575,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to item 28, which we deleted at our previous meeting. Item 29 concerns a rather technical matter. Item 30 relates to emergency bills and members' bills. Do you have anything to say about that, Mike?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 495578,
      "EditedText": "Members' bills will come to the bureau, which—as I understand it—is obliged to schedule stage 1. However, it is not obliged to do anything thereafter, so we may run into a bottleneck on members' bills. Extraordinarily—this is a defect of standing orders, but I do not think that anything can be done about it—if each member introduces the two bills to which they are entitled, over four years that would amount to more than 250 bills, which could stop the Parliament in its tracks. Not every member will introduce two bills, but they have the right to do so. If they did, that would mean 250 stage 1 debates—250 half days over four years—but not one half day is allocated in standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 495579,
      "EditedText": "Parliament time and committee time are separate issues. The bureau has asked us to consider the problem of Parliament time. The issue of committee time is being discussed in the informal group of committee conveners, who may suggest a further amendment to standing orders. The concerns that Mike has raised are real and are being acknowledged. I am not sure what the answers are, but the matter is on our agenda.Do members have any questions about what Mike has said?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 495580,
      "EditedText": "I may have missed this, Mike, but what did you anticipate the solution being?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 495582,
      "EditedText": "You can see the value of a legal mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Executive Half-Sitting Days",
      "HeadingID": 13441,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 13441,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 495592,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 is a paper on non-Executive half-sitting days. It relates to the plea that was made to us at our previous meeting by the Green party member, Robin Harper, on behalf of himself, Tommy Sheridan and Dennis Canavan. The paper provides the committee with various options; there is no recommendation as such, but it is suggested at the end that the committee may feel that there is no scope at present to increase the amount of non-Executive time. The difficulty for us is in identifying where we would find the three half days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 495605,
      "EditedText": "Bring in the conductor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 495606,
      "EditedText": "Yes, bring in the conductor. Somebody else is slotted in to do the job.I am attracted to option 3 now, 1 and 2 having been a difficulty for the parties. Option 3 might produce some interesting results but I am not attracted to number 1—and never have been—because it carves things up without recognising the new politics and the potential for people to work together. It also creates difficulties for the Liberals and the Tories on certain committees where they have only one member. That is an insurmountable obstacle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Executive Half-Sitting Days",
      "HeadingID": 13441,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 13441,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 495596,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Executive Half-Sitting Days",
      "HeadingID": 13441,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 13441,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 495598,
      "EditedText": "I should perhaps declare an interest. For quite a long time I was solitary as a councillor and had serious problems. There is a distinction between two parties which happen to be represented by one member each at the moment and an independent. The two parties deserve an opportunity to put forward their particular concerns in a reasonable debate. As Mike said, there may be independents—in the plural—in future. One way to deal with them is to write into the rules that they receive favourable consideration when it comes to members' debates. A number of them are locally based, so they might raise specific local issues. The parties that are represented in the Parliament should have an opportunity to raise debate on a subject at least once a year. There should be some provision to allow independents to raise issues, but they are not a party and should be treated differently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Executive Half-Sitting Days",
      "HeadingID": 13441,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 13441,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 495599,
      "EditedText": "For the record, I am not doing down those from smaller parties—I recognise the proportionality of the Parliament. What I said is that they do quite well out of the current system. In terms of the time that we have available, what is being suggested is going too far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Executive Half-Sitting Days",
      "HeadingID": 13441,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ID": 13441,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 495601,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of options, Murray, and you have pointed out one or two of them. Could we ask the clerks to produce an options paper on what changes to the standing orders might be necessary in order to recognise the right of minority parties represented in the Parliament to a minimum of a half day? I am not saying that we will implement any such alteration, but at least we will see clearly what the options are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 495604,
      "EditedText": "One of the problems with the option of electing a deputy convener from the same party as the convener can be seen by looking round this room. There does not appear to be anybody—at least sitting round the table—who can become the deputy convener of the committee because there is no other Conservative representative. That is a profound difficulty. There is a stronger reason for saying that we should not have conveners and deputy conveners from the same party, and it relates to a discussion that was held by the bureau that will be rehearsed by this committee. One of the best ways to cement into committees a more consensual approach to politics, with committees operating across party lines, is to try to share some of the responsibilities of convenership: guiding the committee; being involved with the clerks; briefing the committee; and devising its papers and materials.Taking the political line—that the SNP is in charge of one committee and Labour is in charge of another—would miss that opportunity. Having a convener from one party and a deputy convener from another could help the parties to work together in the committee system. It could be quite attractive to mix it up like that.That discussion has been taking place for some time in the bureau. There is no agreement on it; it was felt that the Procedures Committee might be able to assist us. The paper does that, because options I and 2 are the only options that the bureau discussed. By some miraculous transformation—or transmutation—the number of options had grown to five by the time the paper reached us here. That is excellent, because number 3 is very interesting: committees might well want to choose a deputy convener from among their number, without any interference from the political parties. Number 4—that deputy conveners may not be required all that often, but if they are they can be picked by rota—is an interesting possibility too. However, the problem with the rota system is that there is no continuity and there would probably not be as much mixing. Option 5 is that deputy conveners are simply a convenience in case the convener falls under a bus. Until he or she is resuscitated, somebody else is slotted in—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 495607,
      "EditedText": "It all hinges on the role of the deputy convener. If they are there simply to allow business to proceed in the absence of the convener, it is a fairly small matter, and options 4 and 5(b) will take care of it neatly. The decision might be different if the deputy convener is seen to have a job in relation to the committee—if we were clear what that job was. Janis indicated that she wanted to come in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 495611,
      "EditedText": "I throw in a further thought. Is there an argument for treating the committees that shadow ministers and the statutory committees differently? In the case of the statutory committees, I suspect that there is no particular political issue at stake and that what is making this difficult is that in some of the legislative-cum-investigatory policy committees, there may be a desire to devolve some of the work and to have a political ally to devolve it to. However, given that a number of those committees are chaired by Opposition politicians, I am not convinced that that is all that important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 495618,
      "EditedText": "Between now and then, we should continue to ignore that requirement, as we have ignored it so far. No retribution has been visited on us, and it seems unlikely that any will be at this stage. We should continue with that for the next few weeks and try to resolve the situation in the future. John, can we have a report for the next meeting that suggests a change in standing orders? We are doing that for all the other options that we are considering. Let us examine what the standing orders say before the next meeting.Are we agreed that we will accept option 5(b), which shows the benefit of the Parliamentary Bureau remitting to this committee any difficulties that it has? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 495625,
      "EditedText": "I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 495626,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying that that should be the decision, but it should be an option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 495628,
      "EditedText": "It may clash with something in the consultative steering group report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 495630,
      "EditedText": "Of all the angels-dancing-on-the-point-of-a-pin issues that we have dealt with so far, this involves by far the sharpest pin. It is a piffling issue, which I have never in my life had to discuss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 495633,
      "EditedText": "I chaired two of those meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 495634,
      "EditedText": "Let us keep the debate in good humour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Representation)",
      "HeadingID": 13443,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 13443,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 495635,
      "EditedText": "We now come to paper 5, which deals with the wording of standing order 5.2, regarding the number of members a party requires for representation on the Paliamentary Bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Representation)",
      "HeadingID": 13443,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 13443,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 495637,
      "EditedText": "Again, this is a technical issue that the clerks can take away and sort out. They must simply align the wording of two paragraphs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 495641,
      "EditedText": "I have no objection to receiving a paper on this matter, but it is resolving itself and there is a feeling that we should continue to examine it from time to time. A paper does not strike me as a priority at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 495644,
      "EditedText": "There are two points to be made. First, in his correspondence with some of the individuals who are involved in this, Sir David suggested that the matter should be discussed by the Procedures Committee, although he noted that he did not view the issue as a priority for this committee. Secondly, the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee decided to remit the matter to this committee, although we do not yet have the report of that meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 495645,
      "EditedText": "That is a much more important reason for discussing the matter than George Lyon's letter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 495648,
      "EditedText": "Okay. Is everyone happy about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 495651,
      "EditedText": "They would have to be spokesmen on something else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 495652,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. That point is on the record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Witnesses (Interests)",
      "HeadingID": 13445,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13445,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 495657,
      "EditedText": "We are not intended to be considering an urgent report on changing standing orders; the issue is part of the evolution of the Parliament in the longer term. It may be that outside witnesses who have had experience of appearing before committees will assist us in deciding whether the issue has substance. It is important that the matter has been put on the record by a member and that it has been discussed by this committee, which has asked for a paper. It is something that we can consider in the fullness of time, and comparison with other Parliaments might help us to judge it sensibly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Witnesses (Interests)",
      "HeadingID": 13445,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13445,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 495658,
      "EditedText": "It would be unfortunate if any draconian rules were to discourage people from coming to give evidence. The paper should bear that in mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee of the Whole Parliament",
      "HeadingID": 13446,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ID": 13446,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 495659,
      "EditedText": "Let us move on to paper 8, which deals with a question that emerged during the emergency legislation debates. An amendment had to be voted on, even though nobody wanted to have a vote. It is a refined point that may not smack us in the face for some time to come. We have been asked whether we want a report, but I do not think that the issue is urgent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Members (Committee Participation)",
      "HeadingID": 13447,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ID": 13447,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 495662,
      "EditedText": "Item 9 is the participation of non-MSPs in the work of committees. We have to decide what is within our legal powers. There appeared to be nothing that we could do with the stark issue that was put before us at first, but we have been asked to consider the matter again. We cannot resolve the issue within a fortnight; the clerks should work on it and bring it back to us as part of the more substantive review before May.There are blank looks around the room. This is the principle of finding a way for people who are not members of the Scottish Parliament to participate meaningfully in the work of certain committees. It was the view of some members that we should be able to co-opt outsiders on to committees because of their particular interests or expertise. That is not possible under the legislation. This is an attempt to involve outside people with an interest or expertise to share in a rather more satisfactory way than by bringing them along as witnesses from time to time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up",
      "HeadingID": 13450,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ID": 13450,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 495667,
      "EditedText": "The two and a half minutes is not necessarily the issue. If the minister has said that he is summing up and will not accept interventions, that should be that. If the minister has not said that, and is still developing a point, there may be a difficulty in closing the meeting on time. That is a matter not for us or for standing orders, but for the Presiding Officer to handle.I moved a motion last week and I summed up when I saw the occupant of the chair indicating that I should do so. Closing speakers will probably resolve the matter best by accepting such a signal from the occupant of the chair. After that, members must not intervene. Subject to reasonable time constraints, we do not want any restriction in standing orders that would limit members' ability to make—or speakers' ability to accept—interventions. I tried to summarise that and I hope that the letter will add to the interpretation of what is still, to a degree, a moving picture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up",
      "HeadingID": 13450,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ID": 13450,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 495668,
      "EditedText": "Would it be possible to tighten up on the relevance of interventions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up",
      "HeadingID": 13450,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ID": 13450,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 495669,
      "EditedText": "That, too, must be a matter for the Presiding Officer. A member was silenced last week for asking an irrelevant supplementary question; the Presiding Officers must feel strong enough to do the same during an intervention. Members making interventions are still, as in virtually every other respect, finding their feet and learning their way. We will rely on good humour, good advice and experience to resolve such matters, rather than on standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up",
      "HeadingID": 13450,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ID": 13450,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 495670,
      "EditedText": "So this committee has no role in advising the Presiding Officers, and must simply lay down standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up",
      "HeadingID": 13450,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ID": 13450,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 495671,
      "EditedText": "We always have the role of expressing our view on a particular matter to the Presiding Officer. Just as we have given the Presiding Officer our opinion on interventions, it would be appropriate for us to express an opinion on relevance. If we decide to do that, perhaps we should prepare a proper report into all matters on relevance and ask the Presiding Officer to issue further guidance through the bulletin or to be tougher in his interpretation of the rules. Are you asking us to do that, Mr Gorrie?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Information Note",
      "HeadingID": 13452,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ID": 13452,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 495675,
      "EditedText": "Agenda paper PR/99/4/13 relates to item 14 on the agenda. For information, we have had a letter from the Scottish Food and Drink Federation, the contents of which are self-explanatory."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 495678,
      "EditedText": "We had hoped to have models of rewritten standing orders available by this meeting, but so many other things have been punted to us by other bodies that the work has overtaken us, resulting in a slight slippage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1438458+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 495680,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1438458+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 495681,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to this meeting of the Procedures Committee. We are pleased to have the opportunity to speak to Tom McCabe and Iain Smith about the paper that they circulated in advance of the meeting. Tom, will you introduce the team to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1438458+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Parliament (Mr Tom McCabe): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 495682,
      "EditedText": "On my extreme left is Robert Gordon. I would be telling a lie if I said that I could remember the long titles that the Executive attaches to his post."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1438458+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Gordon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 495685,
      "EditedText": "Ultimately, I suppose that I am."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 495693,
      "EditedText": "I tried to indicate that when I answered the written question. We intend to audit the questions that are lodged and to indicate on which occasions a member could have obtained the information through other sources. That would help us, and help to inform the Parliament. It would also assist the Parliament in deciding whether we are using our resources to best effect. A better and more effective use of those resources could lead to the development of other mechanisms to help Opposition parties to probe and test the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 495695,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the Executive would object in principle to that suggestion. I am less clear about the practicalities of implementing it, as it may in some instances put the clerks in a difficult position. If that is not the case, we would want to encourage members to get the best possible advice up front. If the member chooses to ignore that advice, the answer could indicate that the information was available elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 495700,
      "EditedText": "Surely ministers have an obligation to be concise as well—the more concise ministers are, the more questions can be taken. It has not gone without notice that ministers' answers are sometimes longer than necessary. If we were to start at 2.15 pm on a Thursday afternoon rather than at 2.30 pm, we could have an hour for question time. We would forgo only 15 minutes of our lunch, which might do us all good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ContributionID": 495701,
      "EditedText": "I have yet to come across an MSP who enjoys a two-hour—or even a 30-minute—lunch. In the main, members usefully employ the time between 12.30 pm and 2.30 pm on Wednesday and Thursday by catching up with phone calls, dealing with constituency business or receiving lobbies from various interest groups. On one Thursday next month, there will be an appropriate lobby from Scottish Women's Aid, which will take up a large amount of MSPs' lunch time.It is easy for people who deliberately misunderstand the timetabling of Parliament to suggest that there is a two-hour lunch break. It is my—and even Mr Mike Russell's—experience that members are heavily occupied in that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 495713,
      "EditedText": "As I said, it is not an unreasonable suggestion and we can consider it in more detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 570.0,
      "ContributionID": 495712,
      "EditedText": "The idea was that people would be less inclined to abuse the system if questions had to be put through their party's business manager, who—to put it bluntly—would not let members get away with much. If the Presiding Officer raps a member's knuckles, well, big deal. However, if a member's business manager tells him or her to behave, it is a problem. That is why we thought it was a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 495716,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is reasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 495718,
      "EditedText": "One issue that has not been addressed is the time by which questions must be lodged—the eight-day rule. I realise that there are pressures on the Executive in terms of the preparation work that is required to face 30 questions at once plus three open questions, but many people feel that the eight-day rule is unduly restrictive, particularly in terms of topicality. Some people find it difficult to understand why, in an open and accessible Parliament, we cannot have more topical questions on the big issues. The minister has indicated that he is not terribly sympathetic to a change in that rule. Why is that? I would have thought that cutting the notice even to six days, or to the Friday before the question time, would assist the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 495722,
      "EditedText": "The point is that we want to do that, but feel that it is difficult to raise topical issues because of the period of notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 594.0,
      "ContributionID": 495724,
      "EditedText": "A week is a long time in politics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495726",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ContributionID": 495726,
      "EditedText": "We acknowledge that, if Parliament accepts new standing orders to allow more supplementaries, the overall number of questions taken will automatically be reduced. However, the list of balloted questions could realistically be cut from 30 to 20, which would require less time to prepare. That may be the way in which the circle is squared. Questions could then be lodged later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495730",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 606.0,
      "ContributionID": 495730,
      "EditedText": "Is what John Ewing has said really the case? Presumably, in briefing the minister for one supplementary, you anticipate every possible supplementary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 609.0,
      "ContributionID": 495731,
      "EditedText": "One can take a view that is focused on a member's particular interest, and make a reasonable assessment of what the follow-up is likely to be about. If the opportunity to ask a supplementary is widened to include members who are coming from other directions, a broader approach is required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495737",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 621.0,
      "ContributionID": 495737,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to the matter of voting. The first issue is whether there is a need to alter decision time. Positions are clear on that. In paragraph 20 there is an acknowledgement that there are times when decisions can be taken away from decision time. Do you see any need to change the current arrangement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 623.0,
      "ContributionID": 495738,
      "EditedText": "In short, no.There are two reasons. The present situation assists ministers considerably in planning their diaries. As someone who operates not only as the Minister for Parliament, but as a business manager, and who receives requests from members to attend to committee business and to other issues that arise, I think that to move away from the 5 o'clock decision time would severely limit the ability of members to meet both their parliamentary obligations and their unplanned constituency obligations. Moving away from 5 o'clock decision time would reduce the flexibility that is available to members and ministers. The Parliament already has a good system, which should be kept. In the short time in which we have been operating, the system has proved its worth."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 625.0,
      "ContributionID": 495739,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions on that point? No.We will move on to the section on the effectiveness of the voting system. We felt that we would wait to hear what the bureau proposed, and then comment on any changes that are suggested. Do members have any questions on this? No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 627.0,
      "ContributionID": 495740,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to timetabling. Much the same might be said about it: it is in hand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 635.0,
      "ContributionID": 495744,
      "EditedText": "We have that listed as one of the additional points at the end.The issue in this section is the summing-up of debates. The ministerial view is that ministers should always do so, but Mike Russell thinks that the movers of motions should do so. You might wish to take the opportunity to ask a question about that, Mike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 637.0,
      "ContributionID": 495745,
      "EditedText": "My position is well known, as is Tom's—it is in the paper. The committee has agreed to consider this at the next meeting. I think—speaking crudely—that it will come down to a matter of votes at that meeting. The fact that Tom and I disagree on this is recorded. It will not add much light if we just repeat our arguments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 647.0,
      "ContributionID": 495750,
      "EditedText": "When that is not possible, would it be the Executive's intention to ensure that any debate following the acquisition of the minister's statement was reasonably timed? That would give Opposition parties time to reflect on the statement and prepare for a debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 655.0,
      "ContributionID": 495754,
      "EditedText": "That was a very diplomatic answer. Your last paragraph is number 30. In response, our intention, having taken evidence, heard from the business managers and taken responses from members, is to arrive at a set of recommendations at our next meeting on 5 October, with a view to reporting to Parliament after the recess. However, we wished to raise three issues with you, minister, which were not among our current priorities but which might lend themselves to a little bit of consideration. The first is about extending meetings of the Parliament. We wonder what your view is on the balance of advantage between extending meetings to, say, 7 o'clock on a Wednesday and/or a Thursday, as opposed to moving the meetings into Wednesday mornings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 659.0,
      "ContributionID": 495756,
      "EditedText": "Thomas has represented the discussion of the bureau well, but the option of having two committees and Parliament meet on Wednesday mornings has substantial disadvantages, as was discussed at the meeting. There is the disadvantage of depriving members of the right to take part in meetings of the Parliament. It has proved difficult enough to avoid conflicts when scheduling committee meetings, let alone trying to do so when there may be business in the Parliament. I understand also that there is a fairly strong financial implication because the official report in particular is strongly stretched and it would be stretched even further were committees to meet on Wednesday mornings.The Parliament's family-friendly nature should be defended strongly, but as I said this morning at the bureau, there are many occasions when people who work in other aspects of life have to work overtime or work late. Provided that it was carefully structured and done in such a way that it was understood that it was one aspect of life, the committee should look upon it positively.This morning, there was a positive response to the proposal, but as one of a range of options. I pointed out that on Wednesdays we could gain almost as much by adding an hour and a half or two hours to the end of the day as we would by having a morning meeting, particularly if Parliamentary Bureau business was dealt with then. That could be a way of increasing the time available for business while still protecting the committee nature of the Parliament, which is an important aspect of the Parliament and which the committee conveners have spoken about strongly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 665.0,
      "ContributionID": 495759,
      "EditedText": "I want to stress strongly the fact that we are discussing ways in which to achieve the same ends. The Executive is strongly of the view that we need to utilise as much time as possible in order to ensure that the business of the Parliament is properly conducted and, quite frankly, to reassure the public—who fund the public purse—that the Parliament is taking every opportunity that it can to expedite its business. That is important, if for no other reason than to minimise the opportunity for misrepresentation of the way in which we go about our business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 673.0,
      "ContributionID": 495763,
      "EditedText": "We have two other matters to address. An issue has arisen that was not part of our original priority framework, and which you may not have had time to consider. The two single-member parties in the Parliament at present have no facility to raise anything other than members' motions. In other words, as things are structured, they cannot propose motions on policy matters. Only 15 half days are allocated to Opposition parties. Has the Executive looked at, or could it look sympathetically at, some device that would allow the occasional use of some time to allow the one-member parties to introduce matters of general policy through motions? It need not be a half-day; it could be an hour's slot to put those parties on the same footing as the other parties that have Opposition days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 698.0,
      "ContributionID": 495775,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Tom McCabe's statement, because his analysis is more sympathetic than I had expected—perhaps I do not give him enough credit. Unfortunately, that is now on the record. However, the reality is that we do not know how much time a member's bill will take. As we have discussed this afternoon, we do not know how much time an Executive bill will take; there will be differences. In those circumstances, our experience in our first two—possibly three—years will inform standing orders about the time that bills will take to go through. Our real problem is that each member is allowed to introduce two bills in a four-year session, and, by my calculation—excluding the Presiding Officer—that would be more than 260 bills. We will have to be very careful. If the Executive is willing to be flexible on the matter, all the parties will be flexible; we will have to suck it and see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 700.0,
      "ContributionID": 495776,
      "EditedText": "Ministers should be excluded from that calculation as well, so there would not be quite as many as 260 bills—perhaps 200."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13438,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 495439,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:31"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495440",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13438,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13438,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Murray Tosh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 495440,
      "EditedText": "We have changed the layout of the room since the previous meeting to create more floor space. We have found the secret of accommodating the press—give them no seats and they all turn up and complain, but if we ensure that there are plenty of seats, nobody appears."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495444",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13438,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13438,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 495444,
      "EditedText": "About half an hour. We might not take as long as that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13438,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13438,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 495445,
      "EditedText": "I have another committee from 2 pm to 5 pm, so I will not be able to attend. I do not like to forgo the opportunity of asking Mr McCabe questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 495449,
      "EditedText": "We must therefore consider two sets of papers: the original papers with about 30 issues and the revised papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 495456,
      "EditedText": "The standing orders allow the Parliament, on a recommendation from the Parliamentary Bureau, to vary the voting times, so we have the flexibility to do that at the moment. Does Mike want to flag up an amendment to standing orders, to give guidance on when it would be reasonable for the bureau to recommend a change in the time of the vote?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 495459,
      "EditedText": "Presumably Parliament can always do that by suspending the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 495460,
      "EditedText": "I do not understand why the world must come to an end at 12.30 pm each day, so that if the vote was taken at 12.30 pm and the meeting drifted on for a minute or two, we would all go to jail. That seems strange. It might be enshrined in some document that we knock off for lunch at 12.30 pm. Surely if there is a vote, we could hold it at 12.30 pm and finish at 12.32 pm. It would be silly to lose a quarter of an hour of our already limited time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 495464,
      "EditedText": "Would anyone else like to comment? Remember that we are not discussing the substantive issues this morning; we are giving Mike the opportunity to put his case as the SNP spokesman and asking questions to clarify his position. We will take the decisions next week.Issues 6, 7 and 8 are on electronic matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 495469,
      "EditedText": "I might be wrong, but I thought that there was a proposal to have screens on desks in the new chamber. If there is not, there should be. It would assist members greatly to have information about speakers and voting. At the moment, there is an extraordinary combination of the electronic and the manual. Members press the voting buttons, the figures come up on a screen, the clerk writes them down on paper and passes them to the Presiding Officer. It would be better if members and the Presiding Officer saw instantaneously on their screens what the clerks saw, which is the result of the vote. We could correct any errors in voting, as each member could check that their vote had registered. That would not be a difficult system to institute in the new chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 495470,
      "EditedText": "Much of what you are saying is geared towards the new chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 495471,
      "EditedText": "Display screens could be put on the walls before then. The idea now is that they will not be, but that there will be a refinement of the clocks—which is necessary—so that the clocks will count down individual speakers' times as well as show the time.During the members' debate on Argyll and Bute, the timings seemed to go wrong and Alasdair Morrison was put in the difficult position of having about a minute and a half in which to respond. It is impossible for a minister to respond to a debate in a minute and half. A countdown clock, which we are meant to be getting, might have meant that all members' speeches would have been briefer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 495472,
      "EditedText": "If all members were to have a display screen, I would be worried that they would sit with their eye on the screen and nothing else. At the moment, the Presiding Officer has discretion and bears in mind the rules about having a fair distribution of speakers. Already points of order have been raised about the fact that this party has had three speakers but that one has had four, which can hold up proceedings. I understand the benefits of having a screen, but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 495476,
      "EditedText": "I hope that any system of screens would cater for spectators. As we live nearby, my wife occasionally drops in; the last time she came, she had no idea what we were discussing for the first 20 minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 495478,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that happens not just in the gallery."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 495480,
      "EditedText": "I do not want the screen to look like the winter Olympics with huge amounts of information, but the subject being debated could easily be displayed. When the Parliament is meeting as a committee, it would be helpful if the screen could say, for example, that section 3(1)(a) was being discussed, because there were times during our debate on the mental health bill when it was difficult to work out where we were."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 495481,
      "EditedText": "If we had the sports channel, it would stop the chamber emptying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 495482,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely—but I am not suggesting that we should also have television on the screens, although it might be an idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 495483,
      "EditedText": "I was just laying a trap.Issue 9 in the paper has been taken away by the bureau. We had nothing more to say on it. Does anyone want to comment on issues 10, 13, 20 and 22?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 495499,
      "EditedText": "It is, and for a Glaswegian, that is saying something. It seems possible that we might move towards working in the way that Westminster works. Previously I have said that I do not want to be locked in either the Parliament or the committee rooms. I have already been on a good number of visits to people's houses and to halls, and I would like to do that more. If we did a head count and found that, because of where they lived or because they had decided that they wanted to spend Wednesday night in Edinburgh, 50 per cent of MSPs wanted meetings of the Parliament to eat into the time that other MSPs wished to spend away from Parliament, that would be a wrong step. It would make the Parliament very unfriendly, especially towards me—I intend to continue to travel back and forth between Glasgow and Edinburgh every day, and I do not want to stay in Edinburgh. As Andy and Michael have said, it is early doors for us to be talking about extending meetings all over the place. Michael's suggestions could make a difference if we really needed the time, but I would like more time to listen to people rather than talking to them, which Westminster does too often."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 495491,
      "EditedText": "It would be sensible to deal with Donald's points at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 495493,
      "EditedText": "Not without having to change the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 495495,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we should go too far with the contents of Donald's paper. We have an interim solution to extend meetings on a Wednesday, so let us suck it and see. We must consider that there are list MSPs, constituency MSPs, those with families, those without families, those within 20 minutes of Parliament and those who are three, four or five hours away, or even further away. We must pitch our decisions for every member of the Parliament, not just for those who live nearby. There is no single standard category of MSP—we must accommodate everybody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 495498,
      "EditedText": "Will the press please note that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 495501,
      "EditedText": "The procedure is working substantially better than it was. My group's view is that, providing that the statement is given to opposition groups in time to allow for preparation of questions and briefing, the situation is tolerable.There are difficulties in doing that and I am grateful to the Executive for trying to provide statements as early as possible. To me, that would mean the night before, not an hour before. We are getting them between those times. If the Executive is willing, we can get to a stage where the statement procedure is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 495504,
      "EditedText": "If the Administration had wanted a debate but had not provided for a time interval between the statement and the debate, the debate would have been unfair on the opposition parties as there would have been no opportunity to research it. We have to explore how the Executive intends to handle the situation. As you said, Mike, there was no problem last week, for the reasons that you gave, but there might be a problem at some other time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 495512,
      "EditedText": "The arrangements in the standing orders for adjournments and suspensions of Parliament bite in this case. I am afraid that the standing orders simply cannot be circumvented."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 495517,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is right. It should be remitted to the bureau and to the Presiding Officer so that each party's business manager knows the length of the opening and closing speeches."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 495518,
      "EditedText": "Should there be standard times so that we do not have to agree separate times for every debate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13439,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 495519,
      "EditedText": "There should be, but that is not a matter for the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 495528,
      "EditedText": "Could you talk me through that again? I think that opportunities for Labour back benchers such as me to speak are also limited."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 495530,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that there are Liberal Democrat spokespeople who are distinct from Government ministers and that therefore there are Liberal Democrat positions on things that ministers might not articulate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 495533,
      "EditedText": "There is an opposite argument, which is that the coalition partners are, in effect, one party and there should be no distinction. Those are the games that big boys play."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 495535,
      "EditedText": "One might say uncharitably, Donald, that the Liberal Democrats have traded their speaking rights for a mess of partnership pottage, but I appreciate the point that you are making."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 495536,
      "EditedText": "We are aware of the arguments and it is reasonable that someone should examine those calmly and reflectively. It is not a matter for standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 495537,
      "EditedText": "Surely it will be fascinating to hear the view on that of the Deputy Minister for Parliament this afternoon. I hope that we put that to him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 495539,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a brief point about interventions. I still feel that there is some disquiet in the chamber about interventions. In the past two weeks, Scottish National party members and others have made representations about them in points of order. Interventions sometimes take up so much time that the member making the speech becomes short of time.I also raised the point two weeks ago that a minister or a member is protected in the last minute of their speech because they are in the last minute of their speech. The speech goes on, however, for another two-and-a-half or three minutes.I note from the briefing papers for this meeting that this committee's advice was that there was no reason to have absolute protection for ministers and members in the last part of their speeches. I have no objection to that, but interventions are still causing some difficulty.That is a matter for the Presiding Officer rather than for anyone else, but it has caused disquiet among members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 495542,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to issues 23 and 24, which relate to a revision of question time to allow for specific question times for specific ministers. That option was raised at our previous meeting and the issue of a First Minister's question time is already on the agenda.We will not resolve those matters today. I have allowed a full discussion to develop on many of the points made earlier because that has helped to move us in the right direction. I would prefer Mike simply to set out his position on this issue and we will then ask questions of him. We will need to discuss this at some length and make some recommendations at our next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 495549,
      "EditedText": "I agree broadly with what Michael says. I will be interested to hear what Tom McCabe has to say today about tabling questions.Last week Phil Gallie, in a supplementary question to Jack McConnell, went completely off the subject of the original question. The Presiding Officer should deal with such instances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 495550,
      "EditedText": "The Presiding Officer did slap him down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 495545,
      "EditedText": "The session, which lasts for 45 minutes at the moment, could be lengthened to an hour. There could be five minutes more allocated to closed questions and ten further minutes added for open questions.The order of questions could, of course, be reversed. Closed questions could be asked first. I would be interested to see what that would produce. I thought at first that that might produce something dramatic, but now I am not sure that it would.If members were minded to lengthen question time to an hour, that would strike a balance. Roughly the same number of questions would be asked but there would be a bit more to-ing and fro-ing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 495547,
      "EditedText": "Would Mike Russell consider having another question time, perhaps on Wednesdays?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 495557,
      "EditedText": "I am broadly sympathetic to what you say, but would we be exposing the clerks to something to which we do not want to expose them? They might have to make decisions on subjects that I, for example, could argue were politically urgent, but which they might think were not urgent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 495559,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that the authority to make that decision is the Presiding Officer's?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 495561,
      "EditedText": "I would very surprised if there were only two or three in a week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 495562,
      "EditedText": "I was talking about successfully lodged questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 495564,
      "EditedText": "We should be strict with those who attempt to lodge half a dozen emergency questions a day for the first three weeks. We must look for responsibility in members and this would be the right way forward.Emergency questions might have to be lodged through the business managers. I would have no objection to finding a way to filter emergency questions through the parties. The responsibility would be on the parties to ensure that questions were genuine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 495566,
      "EditedText": "There are examples of other procedures that are in place where there must be internal certification by business managers. That might be the way to do it. The Presiding Officer would be able to tell the business managers that they could not certify 12 emergency questions in a day because they will not be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 495568,
      "EditedText": "I agree in principle—there should be a method for getting answers to questions on genuine emergencies quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 495570,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps they should be channelled through the business managers to the Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 495574,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Item 27 has also been dealt with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 495576,
      "EditedText": "In his paper, Tom McCabe says that the Executive is considering the procedure for emergency bills. There needs to be a partnership between this committee, the Executive and the bureau to ensure that our procedures are altered to make it possible for the Parliament to take emergency bills. The fact that we had to suspend part of our standing orders to take a piece of emergency legislation was no big deal, but it should alert us to the fact that we have not got the procedure right in standing orders. I believe that we have asked for a redraft of standing orders that would remedy the situation.I have a number of concerns about members' bills. We have still to test the system, but I am concerned that there is no time allocated in standing orders for members' bills. It was assumed that there was time, but John will confirm that no sitting days were specifically allocated for members' bills. A discussion has arisen in the bureau on where that time should come from. My assumption is that all time belongs to the Parliament, which can decide how its time is used. That is technically true, because Parliament approves business motions. However, there is another school of thought that argues that all time that is not already allocated belongs to the Executive. That would mean that the Executive would have to give up time to allow consideration of members' bills and that such bills could not be debated if it was unwilling to do that.This is a crucial issue. Time is allocated for non-Executive debates and for committee business—15 and 12 days respectively. The Executive assumes that all other time is Executive time, but I argue that all other time is Parliament time. Parliament gives that time to the Executive, but it could say that it intends normally to allocate five or 10 half days for dealing with members' bills.The first member's bill is almost ready to be lodged and will presumably go before the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. It is possible that that committee will put it to the Parliament in the time allocated to it for its business, but there is no guarantee that that will happen; I do not think that it is even likely to happen—Gordon is shaking his head."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13439,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 495581,
      "EditedText": "That is a good question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13439,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 495583,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. I am afraid that I will trip myself up when an advocate asks me that sort of question.An allocation of time for Members' bills has to be laid down in the standing orders. The consequence of there being none is that there will be a bottleneck of members' bills, which will create some difficulty. We must allocate space in the timetable for a certain number of half days—probably between 10 and 12 a year—for members' bills. The downside is that members will find it much harder than they think to get their bills through, simply because of the shortage of legislative time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 495584,
      "EditedText": "Where do you plan to get those half days from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 13439,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 495586,
      "EditedText": "This obviously ties in to some extent with our earlier discussion about extending the length of the parliamentary week. If we create more time for our business, one of the beneficiaries may be members' bills. That would provide more flexibility all round. This matter must be resolved—we need to consider whether a time allocation should be specified in standing orders.Does that take us to the end of your submission, Mike? Do you wish to make a final statement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13439,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 495588,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Working Hours",
      "HeadingID": 13440,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ID": 13440,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 495589,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 concerns Donald Gorrie's paper, which we discussed during Mike's evidence. However, Donald, I am willing to allow you to make any other points that you wish to at this stage. Do you feel that you had a fair thrash at it and that we are going in the right direction?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Working Hours",
      "HeadingID": 13440,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 306.0,
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      "ID": 13440,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 495590,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to comment on the clerk's response to my paper. It states:\"At this stage in the life of the Parliament it is not feasible to point to concrete examples of ways in which the basic timetable/structure has constrained Parliament unreasonably.\"That is not correct. Some of the debates have been too short and, as has already been said, a number of people who would have liked to speak and could have made reasonable contributions were not able to. The time allocated for speeches is sometimes so short that interventions are discouraged and the impact of the speech is diminished because the speaker is unable to put their arguments properly. I argue that slightly longer debates would be better debates. That is linked to the issue of how much time is available to Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Working Hours",
      "HeadingID": 13440,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13440,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 495591,
      "EditedText": "We addressed that question earlier, Donald, but I am perfectly happy for you to put your opinion on the record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Executive Half-Sitting Days",
      "HeadingID": 13441,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13441,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 495594,
      "EditedText": "I take a diametrically opposite view from Andy. When we discussed this previously, I said that the issue was not Dennis Canavan, but independent members. I regret that this paper still refers to Dennis Canavan—my view is that he features in this argument only as an independent member. We must not forget that any improvements that we make to standing orders are designed not for the next three or four years, but for the foreseeable future. It is not inconceivable that there may be one or more independent members of this Parliament forever—perhaps not Dennis, but others.Equally, there may be minority parties. We need to remember that, under our voting system, representatives from those parties have been duly elected. At present the Scottish Socialist party and the Scottish Green party sit as minority parties. The question is not whether individuals from those parties are called to speak—I am glad that they are, although some people resent the fact that they are called so often—but whether they have the right to participate in other aspects of the Parliament's work. We have established—although not without difficulty—the right of all members to serve on committees. Any party should be entitled to the opportunity to introduce its business at least once during the year. With regard to the Scottish Socialist party and the Scottish Green party, the argument is quite clear—they should have the minimum amount of parliamentary time that can be given them, which is one half day.The case of Dennis Canavan is different, as he is an independent member. However, it might be argued that independents should have a share in non-Executive business. I am not quite so certain of that, but it would make sense for a group of three or four independents to be offered one half day.One of the staff of the Scottish Parliament information centre has pointed out that standing orders contain a contradictory provision, which we will clear up. The independents and minority parties did not quite reach the magic figure of five members, but that should not disqualify them from participating fully and appropriately—for this is not a huge allocation—in the work of the Parliament.I support, therefore, the request of the Scottish Green party and the Scottish Socialist party and am inclined to support the idea that independents as a group should be allocated one half day. That comes to three half days—if we met until half past 6 on two nights for three weeks we could manage it. That would be a small price to pay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Executive Half-Sitting Days",
      "HeadingID": 13441,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 495595,
      "EditedText": "So you believe that we should agree to the half day and link that to the general discussion about extending the parliamentary week—in other words, that we should not take anyone else's time away from them, but use the extra time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-Executive Half-Sitting Days",
      "HeadingID": 13441,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 495600,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty that I have in agreeing with that, Andy, is that—as Donald said—Dennis is an independent and can introduce constituency business in members' time. The others can make speeches in debates, ask questions and make their points in committee. The advantage for the Scottish National party and the Conservatives is that they can lodge a motion on a broad political issue and have it debated. There is no mechanism for the small political parties to do that. With respect, that is the gap in what Andy has just said. It has to be decided whether to give the smaller parties that opportunity or, indeed, whether to give them a half day or simply a slot. We have some relatively short debates. There may be merit in not considering them to be entitled to a full half day. One of them might wish to raise a matter that would sustain a fairly substantial debate. For example, Robin Harper might introduce a discussion on genetically modified foods. I am inclined to be sympathetic to the case that Mike has made this morning. The difficulty is that it requires a change to the standing orders. We cannot simply say, \"Give them a half day\" without impacting on the time allocated to the Opposition parties. We would have to expand the time available through the standing orders or write something into the standing orders to entitle the small parties to some kind of platform. The matter could be taken care of if the Executive were willing to schedule an opportunity for a debate initiated by the minor parties without any need to change the standing orders. I suggest that we raise that matter with Mr McCabe this afternoon. He may not have a definitive response, but he could think about it and respond in time for our next meeting. That would allow us to come to a decision on the matter—we cannot really decide today because our decision might require a change to the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
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      "HeadingID": 13441,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 495602,
      "EditedText": "Could the clerks add to the report to that effect? That is agreed."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 495603,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to the fourth item, which is the remit from the bureau. Members have a paper containing three issues: the method of electing deputy conveners; the time allocations for members' bills; and the election of committee conveners. We have been asked to suggest how deputy conveners might be elected. There are five options in the paper, which are not so much about the method of election as the method by which the positions of deputy convener will be allocated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 495608,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I take a diametrically opposite view to Michael, funnily enough. There is merit in option 1, from the point of view of continuity and liaison. We could get ourselves into difficulties if the deputy convener and the convener are from different parties. We have cross-party discussions in committee meetings, not in any discussions prior to that which the convener and deputy convener might have to undertake as part of their duties. When a committee has only one member from a particular party, the Liberals and the Conservative party—for example—could come to an agreement whereby they would rotate the convenerships. For example, if the convener was a Liberal Democrat, it could be agreed that the deputy convener would be a Conservative. The agreement would still pose a problem, though."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 495610,
      "EditedText": "Think about it this way—if you were convener of a committee and Andy were deputy convener, would we ever have a discussion in a meeting? I favour either 5(a) or 5(b)—probably 5(b). It is not desperately necessary for us to have a deputy convener; we should address the issue if and when it arises."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 495612,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly the point. It would give—even symbolically—the right impression for the committees to attempt to find a cross-party method of working together. In the convenership of a committee, that would be illustrated by a Labour convener and an SNP deputy convener. If we cannot agree on that, 5(b) is the only option. That is, if the convener is not at the meeting the committee elects another convener. It would be up to the convener to drag themselves here on a hospital trolley if they wanted to continue to control what was happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 495616,
      "EditedText": "We need to incorporate that into the report that is to go to the Parliament after the October recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 495617,
      "EditedText": "Could we just ignore the requirement to have deputy conveners until then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 495619,
      "EditedText": "I hope that the Parliamentary Bureau does not overexercise that approach. Well done to the clerks for expanding our range of options.The second item that the Parliamentary Bureau has remitted to us is the time allocation for members' bills. That item came to our attention very late last week, when there was not enough time to consider a paper on it. We discussed the matter earlier today, and if committee members are in agreement we will continue on that course until the next meeting. By that time, the officers will have had an opportunity to put together a reasonable response for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 495622,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry. My concentration is going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 495623,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I know. It gets quite hard to concentrate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 495624,
      "EditedText": "We come to the last page of this paper, and the issue that is headed “Rule 12.1.4: Election of Committee Conveners\". We must agree that this should be on the priority issues list and that the clerks should draw up a form of words that will resolve the matter. We do not need to engage in a long discussion of the situation. A sensible point has been raised; it would be an absurdity if we found ourselves sending a senior member of a committee out of a room because, for whatever reason, he was unwilling to chair the business. I had a wee thought as I read these papers to put myself to sleep last night. In the local authority of which I was a member, on one occasion every four years—for the first meeting after the election—the chief executive took the chair. He did not fulfil any political role whatever; he simply asked for nominations for the office of provost. That procedure was then conducted, and the chair was handed over. I wonder whether it would be a good idea for the clerk of each committee to chair the business for the first item. The issue of senior members could be taken out of the frame altogether."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13442,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 495631,
      "EditedText": "That shows a remarkable insensitivity to agism, which I forbear from saying might be a subject in which Donald Gorrie will become more interested as time goes by."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Parliamentary Bureau (Referrals)",
      "HeadingID": 13442,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 13442,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 495632,
      "EditedText": "No, no, no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 495639,
      "EditedText": "We would like to have a paper on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 495643,
      "EditedText": "I ask you to note that this has not been referred to you by the Parliamentary Bureau, the Presiding Officer or the business managers, but by one member of a committee—not even with a letter that was signed by others. That indicates that this is a matter in which an amicable resolution is possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 495646,
      "EditedText": "If there is not yet any remit, we understand that one is coming. That puts a bit of pressure on us. The difficulty is that I am not sure that we will be able to resolve the matter before the committee meeting in a fortnight."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 495647,
      "EditedText": "Given the time pressure that we will be under at the start of October, we should accept the fact that the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee has remitted the matter to this committee. However, there is no urgency in getting the paper on to the priority issues list. We must get all the items on that list out of the way by the end of October. I would be happy to receive a paper whenever the clerks produce one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners",
      "HeadingID": 13444,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ID": 13444,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 495649,
      "EditedText": "It seems strange that somebody should be precluded. If a small party were elected to the Parliament, every member of that party might be a spokesperson, which might preclude those members from becoming conveners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Witnesses (Interests)",
      "HeadingID": 13445,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 13445,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 495653,
      "EditedText": "We now come to the seventh paper: a letter from Alex Neil asking that we require people who come before committees to declare any interests. That seems reasonable in principle; the question is whether we should have a paper on it. There may be practical difficulties and broader issues of which I am not aware."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Chair (Form of Address)",
      "HeadingID": 13448,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ID": 13448,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 495663,
      "EditedText": "Paper 10 simply notes that the recommendation for addressing the chair, which we agreed on at the previous meeting, was seized upon by Sir David Steel and announced immediately. By and large, people have been using \"Presiding Officer\", but we are still hearing \"Madam Deputy\", \"Mr Presiding Officer\" and so on. However, we are moving in the right direction and will achieve a degree of uniformity. It is up to the Presiding Officer to police that. This paper simply notifies members of the announcement, in case they missed it in the chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Clerk Action",
      "HeadingID": 13449,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ID": 13449,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 495664,
      "EditedText": "Paper 11 is a note of clerk action, which simply advises that decisions that were taken previously were relayed to the appropriate bodies—either the Parliamentary Bureau or the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up",
      "HeadingID": 13450,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ID": 13450,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 495665,
      "EditedText": "Item 12 concerns my letter to Sir David, which attempted to sum up the discussion from our previous meeting and indicated a desire for interventions. As I said in the letter, what matters is not the timing of the last minute of a speech, but the decision to sum up by the speaker who is holding the floor. The courtesy should be that when the speaker says, \"No, I am summing up now\", that is that. It does not matter whether the speaker takes a further minute or two, or whether the speaker is a minister or a member. The occupant of the chair ought to ensure that the rest of the speech is heard properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up",
      "HeadingID": 13450,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ID": 13450,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 495666,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty arises when the occupant of the chair says, \"I am sorry, the minister is summing up and is in his last minute\", when the minister has not said that he is summing up and it might be two and a half minutes before he finishes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.128216+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 495676,
      "EditedText": "Agenda paper PR/99/4/14 concerns item 15, the memorandum received by the committee from Mr McCabe in relation to this afternoon's meeting. As I said, we might best deal with that by meeting slightly early this afternoon to discuss our line of questioning. I ask the clerks to prepare a quick aide-mémoire on issues raised this morning that we should raise with Mr McCabe, in addition to the points that he has raised. Interruption. Please tell the committee that, John."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1438458+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Gordon (Head of Executive Secretariat, Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 495683,
      "EditedText": "I am currently head of the Executive secretariat. Before that, I was head of the constitution group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1438458+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ewing (Head of Constitutional Policy, Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 519.0,
      "ContributionID": 495687,
      "EditedText": "I am head of the constitutional policy and parliamentary division of the Executive secretariat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ContributionID": 495688,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We have the paper in front of us. I will begin by saying that our feeling in this morning's meeting was largely to accept the thrust of the Scottish Executive's paper, which is to adopt a fairly sceptical approach to whether we need wholesale changes at this stage. It appeared that, in general terms, the Executive's paper urged us merely to try to loosen up the existing procedures to establish greater flexibility, with a view to considering further change if that proved to be necessary in the light of experience. That is a philosophically pleasing conservative approach to the process. We thought that, unless there were issues that you wanted to raise, Tom, by way of introductory comment, we would simply take the paper section by section. We want to ask a number of questions and we will raise them as we reach each section."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 525.0,
      "ContributionID": 495690,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We take the introduction to your document as read—it is broadly shared ground. I would like now to take each paragraph in turn, and ask whether members have any points to raise. That takes us to questions. You have recently had an opportunity in Parliament to respond to a question on this matter, but we wonder whether you want to say a bit more on question 5—whether questions are being used for the purpose for which they were intended—because there is a feeling that they have gone beyond what was expected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 495694,
      "EditedText": "I understand the difficulty in terms of cost and resources, but the committee has discussed one or two ways in which that problem could be alleviated. Rather than the Executive being forced into what would be tantamount to rebuking members by saying that the information could be found elsewhere, as a first step the clerks might suggest to members that the information that they want is available elsewhere. Thereafter, if members insist on asking the question, they get what is coming to them. Assistance to the clerks in providing that service would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 495696,
      "EditedText": "We should move on to the Executive's proposals on oral question time, which broadly accord with our view. My question is on paragraph 7(b), which is about expanding closed question time to ministers to allow supplementaries from other MSPs at the discretion of the Presiding Officer. The immediate practical difficulty that we see is that, whereas there are about 20 questions at present, the number would be unlikely to be more than 12 or 13 if the proposal was implemented. What is the Executive's feeling about expanding question time, possibly by 15 or 20 minutes, to keep a proper balance between the number of questions and the desire to bring in additional members?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 495697,
      "EditedText": "The Executive's mind is not closed on that proposal but—and this is likely to be the theme of the afternoon—the Parliament is still young, the current system is still developing and there should be some time for the new system that is proposed in the memorandum to bed in and be assessed. If it is then felt that the new system limits the number of questions, we should return to the subject, but we should allow the Presiding Officer's discretion to have an effect on the Parliament and we should have time to assess that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 495699,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I would not want to lengthen question time at the moment for a number of reasons. There is an overall concern about the time that is available to Parliament. The Executive's firm view is that, increasingly in the weeks ahead, as legislation moves into committees and reports come back to the Parliament, parliamentary time will become scarce. We have a presumption against reducing the other parts of the parliamentary timetable at this time because we are still such a young parliament and we are learning as we go. The change that is currently proposed is useful; the First Minister was keen to advocate it and members have been keen to have it implemented. Perhaps there is a responsibility not only on the Presiding Officer and the Executive, but on members themselves to try to be as concise as possible in the knowledge that the more concise they are—and the more disciplined about unnecessary supplementaries if answers have already been given—the more questions will be taken within the time. This is a change to a system that has been in place only for a short time—there is nothing to suggest that the change has to run for an inordinate length of time without being reconsidered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 552.0,
      "ContributionID": 495703,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely not.With respect, convener, the second point about the length of ministers' answers has not been answered. That is a genuine concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 554.0,
      "ContributionID": 495704,
      "EditedText": "Everyone in Parliament has a responsibility to be as concise as possible while imparting the maximum amount of information. If back-bench members have to be concise, ministers must have the same responsibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 560.0,
      "ContributionID": 495707,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of issues to address on this matter, not least the fact that, whereas, on average, 1,400 Scottish questions are tabled at Westminster a year, 1,300 questions have been lodged here in the first three months. There is a considerable strain on civil service resources in dealing with those questions—any answer that I give has to be seen in that context. Furthermore, the new Parliament was allocated a certain amount of money for its operating procedures. If we believe all that we read in the newspapers, that money, too, is under considerable strain.In our first weeks of operation, we recognised that we were in a unique situation and that, because of the date on which we took our powers and the date on which we went into recess, it would be unfortunate for MSPs in such a unique situation not to have access to answers to written questions. Although no precedent has been set for answering questions in future recesses, there is a mind within the Parliament that that should happen. At Westminster, no answers are given during recesses. It would be less than responsible of us not to recognise that, during a summer recess, there are breaks in the resources available to answer questions and that staff take holidays. At such times, the system comes under considerable strain. Perhaps because of the initial enthusiasm attached to the new Parliament at the start of the recess, the system came under undue strain and members felt additional frustration that answers to their questions were taking a bit longer than expected. However, as I outlined, there were understandable reasons for that, of which the majority of people were aware."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 562.0,
      "ContributionID": 495708,
      "EditedText": "We understand the pressures on resources during the recess. However, perhaps MSPs who wanted it to be seen that they were not on holiday in the summer went about their work in the best way that they could—by asking questions. Although your comments are of great interest, we are not questioning the principle of asking questions in the recess. Sometimes, when a situation is unfolding, a question will lose its point without a reasonably speedy answer. It has been suggested that the Presiding Officer could employ fast procedures to prioritise certain questions or to designate urgent questions. Are there any circumstances in which the Administration would agree that a question that might otherwise end up in the summer queue could merit a fast response?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 564.0,
      "ContributionID": 495709,
      "EditedText": "Apart from during the recess, there is a facility for asking emergency questions, the use of which is at the Presiding Officer's discretion. I apologise for referring back to Westminster, but it is relevant. Where the facility is available for members to mark questions as urgent, a large percentage of questions suddenly become urgent. The Executive finds it hard to envisage such a system not being abused."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 495715,
      "EditedText": "Such an angelic figure does not exist in the Parliament.I have a lot of sympathy for what Tom McCabe is saying in terms of the weight of written questions, particularly during the summer recess, but I would be sorry to see them lost. The expectation of members that a question will be answered in two weeks during the summer recess is, perhaps, unreasonable and it might be that a longer period should be considered acceptable. The trade-off for that concession would be the ability to ask urgent questions during the recess. Such questions would have to be regulated and would have to be the exception rather than the rule."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 495717,
      "EditedText": "We are happy with that and will try to propose something in our report.We have covered the next section, have we not? It has to do with the information centre. The next section deals with the rota of oral questions to ministers. We decided this morning that we would not pursue the issue of the rota of oral questions at this stage, although we will want to keep it under review. If we change the shape of question time and find that, in practice, ministers are not being sufficiently scrutinised, we may come back to the issues of times and specific slots for ministers. At the moment, however, we are not minded to depart from the general spirit of what is being proposed. We do not have any questions on that section."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 495719,
      "EditedText": "The time scale for First Minister's questions has been altered, which will aid topicality. At Westminster, the deadline is 14 days. The Scottish Parliament has acknowledged that that could be improved—hence the eight-day rule. It comes back to the whole issue of having the resources to deal with questions—to turn them around and to have answers prepared. Every day that is shaved off the deadline disproportionately increases the pressures on the system. For that reason, there is some merit in maintaining the eight-day deadline. We should remember that the deadline for First Minister's questions was further shortened, as the scope of questions to the First Minister is more limited than it is for general questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 596.0,
      "ContributionID": 495725,
      "EditedText": "That may be, but there must always be a balance, in Parliament and in life. In many respects, the answer depends on the resources that we are prepared to apply. If it is Parliament's will that there should be considerable resources to respond more quickly to questions and to allow shorter deadlines, so be it. However, we need to consider whether that response would be disproportionate for the sake of cutting the deadline by two days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 600.0,
      "ContributionID": 495727,
      "EditedText": "That seems a practical suggestion; if the committee is happy with it, it would be reasonable to consider it. However, the Executive would hope that it would not be seen as a device to limit the number of questions that can be lodged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 602.0,
      "ContributionID": 495728,
      "EditedText": "As someone who has often answered such questions, may I offer an observation? Opening questions up to other supplementaries increases the amount of work that is needed to answer individual questions, as more ground has to be covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 604.0,
      "ContributionID": 495729,
      "EditedText": "A trade-off might be possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 611.0,
      "ContributionID": 495732,
      "EditedText": "You have our files, do you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 613.0,
      "ContributionID": 495733,
      "EditedText": "Over time, we build up a perspective on what members' interests are.The First Minister gets considerably more briefing for questions than does a minister, as questions to the First Minister are much more open."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 617.0,
      "ContributionID": 495735,
      "EditedText": "You are not ruling out what we just said, Tom?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 619.0,
      "ContributionID": 495736,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 631.0,
      "ContributionID": 495742,
      "EditedText": "We had a question about the chairing and conduct of debates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 649.0,
      "ContributionID": 495751,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is an unwillingness to take soundings on a particular issue. In the majority of instances, Opposition parties were perfectly content with the second kind of statement—a statement followed by questions followed by a debate. If there was a very strong view from Opposition parties that, on a particular occasion, a statement followed by questions with a debate at a later date was more appropriate, the Executive would do its best to consider that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 667.0,
      "ContributionID": 495760,
      "EditedText": "One thing that Andy said this morning that was of interest to me was that if we sat a little later on Wednesdays, which I think we are sympathetic to, it would allow people to come and see the Parliament. There are lots of people who work from nine to five and who would like to see the Parliament. That measure would make the Parliament more open."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Parliament (Iain Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 669.0,
      "ContributionID": 495761,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a couple of points, the first in response to what Mike said about overtime. There is no particular concern about whether MSPs do overtime, because we probably all do considerably more hours than the general public does, but we must bear in mind that if we are doing overtime in the Parliament, that has a knock-on effect on the staff. They are obliged to work overtime and that would cost money.Practically, it is possible to have committee meetings on Wednesdays but it is probably not practical to have them on Thursdays. If members from remote constituencies wish to get home at a reasonable hour, or at all, on a Thursday evening, finishing at 5 o'clock may allow them to do so but finishing at 7 o'clock may not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 678.0,
      "ContributionID": 495765,
      "EditedText": "We felt that, if the Parliament were considering expanding Parliament meeting time, it might be more generous to allocate some time from that substantially greater allocation than from the already tightly controlled 15 half days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 680.0,
      "ContributionID": 495766,
      "EditedText": "I fully appreciate your point, convener, but we approach the matter with different perspectives on generosity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 682.0,
      "ContributionID": 495767,
      "EditedText": "You are being generous with other people's time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 684.0,
      "ContributionID": 495768,
      "EditedText": "We are proposing to be generous with yours, to be fair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 690.0,
      "ContributionID": 495771,
      "EditedText": "In the interests of accuracy, I should say that that view was raised in the committee this morning. It is not necessarily the view of the whole committee, or even of a majority of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 692.0,
      "ContributionID": 495772,
      "EditedText": "I understood that, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 696.0,
      "ContributionID": 495774,
      "EditedText": "From the Executive's point of view, this matter remains open. I qualify my remarks by saying that this is an introductory discussion and that, as yet, the Executive has no firm view. Several suggestions could be taken up, one of which is that a certain number of slots for the consideration of members' bills should be made available in the Parliament during the year. The next consideration would be whether that time should come from what I consider to be Executive time, or whether it should come from the time that is available to non-Executive parties and Executive parties. If members felt that the time that is available to the Executive could be reduced to accommodate a set number of slots for members' bills, the trade-off would be recognising that any remaining time would be time for the Executive. We could be in great danger of—with good intentions—so severely limiting the time that is available to the Executive as to make it difficult for it to do its necessary work, to progress its legislative programme.There are different ways in which to approach the issue. The Executive is keeping an open mind. The matter requires further consideration by everyone in the Parliament who has an interest.One reservation that I have about the suggestion of setting aside a fixed number of slots for members' bills is that some people may interpret that as a cap on the number of such bills. At some point, we will have to develop a system that recognises that although it is legitimate for some time to be allocated to members' bills, everyone else has a call on legitimate slots, including non-Executive parties and committees. If there is a natural limit on the time available for those other interests, perhaps there should be a natural limit on the time available for members' bills."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ID": 13453,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 706.0,
      "ContributionID": 495779,
      "EditedText": "On behalf of myself and my deputy, who has accompanied me, I offer sincere thanks. We have enjoyed the experience and we thank the committee for a sympathetic hearing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2817
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 13453,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13453,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 708.0,
      "ContributionID": 495780,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 17:08."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1594701+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 477983,
      "EditedText": "Okay, we will go straight to recommendation 9, which deals with the electoral system. It is the bit that the Kerley committee will examine. How do we see it in relation to our programme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 477989,
      "EditedText": "It is always a good principle not to put the cart before the horse. We might not be able to say for certain that the electoral system that we choose can be implemented within Kenny's preferred time scale. I would like to have a new system in place for the next election, but saying that we have decided to work towards that before we have examined the electoral system and taken consultation—so that we know what the implications of any change are—is to put the cart before the horse. There may be practical difficulties in the way of changing the electoral system in time for the next elections. We should take our time and make the right decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 477997,
      "EditedText": "Should we deal with that now or should we wait until we have the Kerley report, which will include evidence from a range of sources and consider all the questions about the review of local government and what sort of electoral system should be brought in?The Kerley report will contain the views of all the political parties and it will undoubtedly express views on all the criteria set by the McIntosh report. It will also produce recommendations and estimates on how long the introduction of a new system should take.We could discuss those issues, but much of that discussion could be wasted depending on what the Kerley report says. We will not have to wait very long to see the report. I think that everybody agrees that once we have agreed our position, we should implement it as soon as possible. We need not necessarily set ourselves arbitrary targets at this stage.I accept Kenny's point about the changes for the Scottish Parliament elections, but the changes made to that system did not involve boundary changes. The Westminster boundaries were used for constituency members and the European constituencies were used for list members. That was straightforward. There could be a need for significant boundary changes depending on the system adopted for elections to local government.Whatever we say now is just warm words until we have seen what the Kerley report recommends and what arguments have been put forward from the various corners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 478007,
      "EditedText": "Although the boundaries themselves might be contentious, the principle that they should fit communities better is not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 478010,
      "EditedText": "So we agree that there should be a review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 478011,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on, I want to return to the previous meeting's minute on the report's third recommendation. We seem to be discussing more and more the Scottish Executive's relationship to the committee. At the previous meeting, we made the point that any agreement should include the Local Government Committee as well as the Scottish ministers. However, that point was not included in the minute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 478020,
      "EditedText": "It would have been helpful if the proposal said that. As worded, the proposal demonstrates a clear preference for one kind of organisation, even though other options can be considered. The Local Government Committee could point out that the committee is not as prescriptive as that. Local authorities should be able to make their own decisions if they can justify that a certain organisation is best for them, that it works and that it is transparent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 478023,
      "EditedText": "There was a consensus among the people who gave evidence to McIntosh that there should not be directly elected council leaders. I support that view. Broader-based election is a very healthy concept and should continue. Although I agree with the first half of the proposal, I am not so sure that I want to keep the option open."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 478025,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone have a problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 478027,
      "EditedText": "Do not tell him that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 478034,
      "EditedText": "All parties could learn not to apply whipped votes as often as they do. Many local government issues are not necessarily matters of contention between the parties. Each party could reflect on that. Declaring the application of a whip is not a bad idea: it would give the public an idea whether a councillor is voting a particular way because of a party political decision or a personal decision. That would add to a community's information by which to judge the performance of their elected representatives and whether they reflect the views of that community. The recommendation is correct. I recognise what has been said about the principle being in the gift of the political parties to deliver, but the parties should take these messages on board. There is undoubtedly a lot of cynicism about the way in which local authorities take decisions. If we are to build up their reputation, this recommendation is a good step forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 478036,
      "EditedText": "A lot of people here are talking like old party hacks—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 478038,
      "EditedText": "In the nicest possible way, of course.Some of us who have a few years behind us know that whipping in local government is a fairly new phenomenon relative to 30 years ago. In different parts of Scotland whipping was not the norm; it was abnormal. I do not see why we cannot produce directives to make the situation more transparent. I have been a councillor—there are one or two other former councillors around this table—and woe betide you if you go against the party whip. What I like about the suggestion about minuting when whipping occurs is that the public would have the opportunity to question the party leader and the councillor. On such occasions, councillors may be voting against the wishes of the community or of the whole council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 478041,
      "EditedText": "Following on from Jamie's point, while there are procedures that one would want to see being used, many of the bullet points here relate to flexibility. It is important to distinguish between those two things. We said at an earlier meeting that we would try to examine authorities with best practice, which should include ensuring enough flexibility to meet particular needs, such as size and geographical area.On whipping, while openness and transparency are important, the other big issue is consensus, which can lead to further discussion that would allow us to hear different points of view. Taking whipping away may mean more agreement. The whole idea behind McIntosh is to move towards a more consensual approach. Perhaps Gil can tell us whether he found that there was more discussion and agreement when there was no whipping."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 478045,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to hear a more detailed discussion, but that is the sort of matter that we will have to examine when we visit councils, because best value is involved and questions will arise on how individual councils conduct such matters.For example, on the regional council and on Glasgow City Council, my concern was about an executive which met, made a decision and was then tied to that vote. We never knew whether an executive of 17 had voted 9:8; we did not receive that information. That situation can be difficult if you are unsure about the matter or feel that you do not have enough information. There are issues around that that can perhaps be examined.On Jamie's question about who is the watchdog, Johann is right. The covenant, the joint conference and the leadership forum are involved, over and above the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, which should really be looking at the matter as well. There are also the formal positions of bodies such as the Accounts Commission. Again, people do not want to feel that all those groups are watching their performance.Many such questions will arise once we start to visit councils or when council officials come to our meetings and we hear how they conduct their business in terms of whipping. Recommendation 16 is difficult because political parties take their own positions on it. I do not think that it will be terribly contentious, but we will probably want a bit more information and debate about how councils deal with the matter.Does anyone have comments on recommendation 17? I do not need to read it out, because members all have a copy, thanks to Craig Harper. Members of the press do not have a copy, but they look as if they do not care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 478051,
      "EditedText": "I accept the excellent point that recommendations 17, 18 and 19 be taken together.If, as I hope, the pay and conditions package indicates that it is possible to become a full-time councillor and to receive due remuneration for that, that it is also possible to be extremely worth while as a part-time councillor, it will be necessary to produce two job descriptions. There would be one for full-time councillors so that they could deliver that for which the public is paying, and there would also be a description that would explain what is expected of part-time councillors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 478054,
      "EditedText": "It is like any other job: people should undergo an element of training. I hope that political parties do that before the elections; we certainly do. Such training should be flexible, as it is not always easy for people to travel around the country for it. Most training might have to be in-house or brought in from outside, especially as there might be specialised training. Such training should include some of the things that other councils do, so that councillors are not focused only on how things are managed in their own authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 478057,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 478063,
      "EditedText": "Is there not a conflict of interest if an employee is working for the council for which he is standing? We do not believe that the case for a relaxation of the rules has been made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 478066,
      "EditedText": "The rules could exclude people from sitting on a committee that was setting out their pay and conditions or dealing with other matters that related to their work.Keith said that the case for a change to the rules had not been made. He would say that, because his party is responsible for the current situation. Under the old system, people could still take part in the democratic process by standing for a district council if they were employed by the region, or vice versa. With unitary authorities that is impossible, because the majority of people live in the area covered by the authority for which they work. That is the case for reform."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 478076,
      "EditedText": "I add my weight to what has already been said. We have discussed big rural authorities, but let us examine small rural authorities. Orkney, with a population of about 20,000, has a high proportion of people working for the council. I phoned the SNP in Orkney a year ago to ask how we were doing with the selection of candidates. I was told that we were not fielding any candidates. When I asked why not, I was told that we had 60 members, 50 of whom worked for the council. The rule excludes a colossal proportion of people who know and care about local government. It is insulting to suggest that those people would be corrupt or mismanage affairs.Local government employs 294,000 people across Scotland. A huge pool of experience and expertise is being excluded. That is undemocratic and a breach of human rights. The situation is ludicrous and cannot be defended any longer. That is why I agree with the proposed change. We have said much about enticing people into local government. The people who are most interested in it are those who have worked for local authorities for 10 or 15 years.The change would also stop the jiggery-pokery of teachers who sit on one council being offered jobs in a nearby authority of the same political persuasion, so that they can remain teachers. That discredits local government more than a change in the legislation would."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 478077,
      "EditedText": "Kenny is right. Many of the officials who work for local councils have an absolute commitment to public service—in some instances, greater than that of elected members.The next section is headed, \"The voice of the people\". We will take recommendations 23, 24, 25 and 26 together. The final section is entitled, \"What should happen next\". I expect that we will finish that in time to take a five-minute comfort break, when we can stretch our legs or run round the block, as Kenny did last time. We will then reconvene to hear the Minister for Finance.Jamie, you wanted to say something?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 478081,
      "EditedText": "No, we will have that in the break.Recommendations 23, 24, 25 and 26 deal with community councils. Recommendation 23 states: \"The system of community councils should be retained and should be regarded as a valuable asset to the democratic life of Scotland.\"Recommendation 24 states that there should be a review of community councils and suggests that local councils should provide them with different types of support. Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 478085,
      "EditedText": "You made an interesting point about toilets. When all the public toilets were closed in Glasgow, offering community councils the chance to manage them was not considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 478087,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the idea was not considered, which would have been helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 478088,
      "EditedText": "I would like to follow on from what Jamie said. The paper says quite a lot about having more meaningful consultation. It mentions resources but perhaps does not go as far as it should in specific areas, although the sentiments are right.Other forums are not mentioned. We all know about the emphasis on community councils, but there is no mention of area forums, civic assemblies or citizens juries and the roles that they could play. We need to extend our consideration to the whole civic scene if we are to hear the voice of the people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 478094,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with the convener's comments about community councils,  but it seems that other things have been missed out. I am sure that we broadly agree with many of McIntosh's comments about community councils."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 478095,
      "EditedText": "It will be interesting to engage with community councils and to ask councillors about such bodies. McIntosh has probably zoned in on the point because a legislative process is involved. At one point in my area, there were five community councils—although that figure has since dropped to two—and the thought of a 16-year-old having a say would have made the councillors faint. They dealt with building applications and if anyone asked about the people in those buildings, they said that that was nothing to do with them. They also thought that the council was a running surgery, but I soon sorted them out on that.Community councils have great potential for involving other community groups such as tenants associations. Kenny is right to say that opening out involvement will give people the notion of doing something political, which can only be good. No doubt committee members who have not been councillors will be really interested in this subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 478096,
      "EditedText": "They will be going to meet councillors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 478099,
      "EditedText": "The time is now 3.45 pm and Jack McConnell is due in the committee room at 4.15 pm. It might be best to stop at 4.05 pm to stretch our legs for five minutes and think about what we will ask—or not ask—Jack.Recommendation 27 states:\"Parliament and local authorities alike should give further study to the development of civic education\".I do not think that that proposal is controversial.The next section of the summary covers McIntosh's comments on how we should pursue the implementation of his proposals. He recommends that councils should be committed to the self-review process by 1 January 2000 and should have completed their reviews by the end of that year. Councils seem to have no difficulty with that proposal and are keen to sign up to the joint conference within the suggested time scale. It is up to councils to take the initiative.What about recommendation 29?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 478100,
      "EditedText": "Will recommendation 29 be implemented by existing organisations, or will it require a new organisation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 478101,
      "EditedText": "That is a good question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 478105,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should set up an advisory panel to examine all the advisory panels."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 478106,
      "EditedText": "Do members want to pursue that or to wait until Wendy Alexander comes, when they can ask her?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 478114,
      "EditedText": "We agree with that, but it is undoubtedly contentious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 478116,
      "EditedText": "Would anybody like to comment on what we have just discussed, or on any other issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12922,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 478117,
      "EditedText": "Colin, who takes longer to get to the bathroom than the rest of us, is advocating a longer interval."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 478118,
      "EditedText": "I will suspend the meeting for about 10 minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 478120,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 478121,
      "EditedText": "I would like to welcome Jack McConnell, the Minister for Finance, and his officials. I have spoken to committee members and have decided to allow them to ask one question each after the minister's eight to 10-minute presentation. Members may then want to pick up on an issue in supplementaries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 478124,
      "EditedText": "Minister, you said something about the possibility of an independent review. Could you expand on why, when everyone else who is involved in local government seems to think that an independent financial review is a good idea, the Executive does not? Why is it against considering a long-term change such as the introduction of a local income tax or land-value taxation, or altering business rates so that they bear less heavily on small shops? Why is it all right to have new taxes in the form of road pricing or road tolls, but not in other forms?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12923,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 478123,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. If members will indicate to me that they want to speak, I will call them and say who is to speak next. Do not tell me that there are no questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 478132,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the funding of long-term care of the elderly, particularly in the potential for more overlap between health service budgets and local authority budgets. I am aware of many problems throughout Scotland; in many cases, there seems to be a turf war between the health service and the local authorities over who is responsible for funding the services. Do you or your colleagues, Susan Deacon and Wendy Alexander, intend to improve the way in which services are delivered by pooling those budgets or by bringing them closer together?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 478139,
      "EditedText": "I did not say that that was wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 478148,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Jack's comments regarding metropolitan status for Glasgow and the sympathetic view that he will take towards the distribution formula, particularly for areas such as Glasgow and Dundee. Given the fact that the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and Unison are continuing to press for an independent review—that pressure will not go away—and the fact that the public is concerned about increases in taxation, or at least the possibility that it will not be decreased, would not an independent review strengthen the Executive's position?We understand that there are pressures on the consolidated fund, but the outcome of an independent review might reveal practical alternatives that are not dissimilar to those that are being implemented at the moment. Would not that add stability to the system, rather than having a spectre of an independent review a few years down the line?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12923,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 478150,
      "EditedText": "I do not like the sound of that. I know where you live, Jack."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12923,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 478153,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We have had a good discussion. It has been a chance for both sides to spell out a few ideas. I want to record that we will probably make the initial announcements about next year's allocations in December. The final decisions will go to the Parliament for decision making in February or early March. Therefore, a very important meeting of this committee might be some time in January to consider those provisional allocations. That meeting will give the committee the chance, in the interests of transparency, to hear an explanation of how the decisions are made and the logic behind them, and to comment in the margins on some of the allocations and on whether the system has been handled in the right way. We can look forward to that discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 478154,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Members can go home now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 478155,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 17:04."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 477979,
      "EditedText": "We now enter the formal meeting, colleagues, and I welcome the public who have slipped in quietly at the back. We are going through the McIntosh report recommendations and trying to group them. At the end of the informal meeting, we finished at recommendation 7. Members will have a copy of the decision—recommendation 7 was the last one on which we decided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 477981,
      "EditedText": "Recommendations 7 and 8 are together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 477987,
      "EditedText": "I cannot agree with that. If we agree on the system by next summer, we could have two or possibly three years to implement it. The boundary changes for the recent elections in May were implemented in a much shorter time. It was done in conjunction with the Scottish parliamentary elections. A boundary review would be seen as a stalling exercise: the system is broadly agreed on. Bristow or I might not accept it, but we may achieve consensus in the Parliament. It would be ludicrous for us to have to wait another eight years before implementing this reform."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 477995,
      "EditedText": "When I was a councillor, my party put me on the list and the people had no choice about whether they would get me or somebody else as their council candidate. There is a similarity between that and the position of people on the list. With the best will in the world, a candidate could be in a list and not get elected because the people in a particular area did not want that candidate. I understand what Johann is getting at, but I do not altogether agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 477992,
      "EditedText": "You are right: that is not in the bullet points and there was no such comment by McIntosh. On the other hand, we are examining the report and, if we agree, part of a recommendation could be that we hold members to account in a way that is over and above the system of proportional representation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 477994,
      "EditedText": "The debate is really about competing principles and priorities. We all have the election ahead of us—you are quite right. However, as Kenny said in an earlier meeting, the people who determine whether a list candidate stays or goes are those in that member's own party. In any electoral system, a poor turnout and electoral disinterest put more power in the hands of local parties. Even in a hugely active democratic process, a list system, if there is one, is determined by the parties and it is far more difficult to shift somebody. I am not saying that that is the principle by which, above all else, every electoral system must stand or fall. Nor would I say that proportionality is the one principle by which we must stand or fall. When we are discussing electoral systems, as well as the principles we must examine the practicalities of how it pans out and what is delivered locally. No one would say that it is a matter of right and wrong: this is good, this is bad. There will be strengths and weaknesses in every system, and I would be interested to hear more of the argument about what the single transferable vote can do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 477996,
      "EditedText": "Before a candidate even gets on to a list, they must get past the party's interview panel. We can argue over the democracy of that. The Dennis Canavan situation is the one with which people are most familiar.We are not supposed to be rewriting the McIntosh report; we are supposed to be considering what areas we can agree on. The McIntosh commission took more than 700 submissions. Having considered those submissions, it seemed to think that there was no reason why a new system could not be in place by 2002. If we want to achieve anything, we should aim for that date. The referendum on the Scottish Parliament was held in September 1997 and we managed to hold elections under a completely new system 20 months later. We are talking here about elections that are 32 or possibly 44 months away. I see no reason why we cannot implement the changes by the necessary date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 477998,
      "EditedText": "I must apologise—I was just looking for agreement with a view to legislation being introduced for the next elections. I was not trying to open a debate on the subject. I would say, though, that the boundary changes required for the previous local elections were made in less than three years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 477999,
      "EditedText": "As Donald says, those changes were problematic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 478001,
      "EditedText": "I agree, although I was enjoying the discussion. We were beginning to get our teeth into something and I did not particularly want to stop members.Another reason for doing things that way is that Eugene, I and others must produce a programme to present to members of who and when we visit and of who visits us. That programme is quite loose, but it allows us to go through all the recommendations, and that is not a bad thing.I accept the points that members have made. This is not the right place for that detailed discussion. Donald's point is favourable—that we should implement recommendations without avoidable delay when we have all the information. We will listen to other groups.I take it, then, that we can say that recommendations 9 and 10 are contentious.I suggest that recommendation 11 in annex A is also contentious. Some electoral systems are included there, but we have added to those the first-past-the-post system. We should add any others that members can think of. We will invite people to come and speak on that subject, unless members feel that it will not be contentious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 478005,
      "EditedText": "Do Keith and Sylvia agree?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 478006,
      "EditedText": "I agree—I do not think that a review of the legislation would be contentious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 478008,
      "EditedText": "It would be contentious—although not necessarily bad—to start to redraw authority boundaries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 478009,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that proposal is on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 478014,
      "EditedText": "We will put that point back on the minute.The 13th recommendation concerns the conduct of council business.Committee members are agreed on that.If everyone turns the page, do they find that they have recommendation 28 instead of 14?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 478017,
      "EditedText": "No. We thought it was a conspiracy against us, because Colin had a copy by Gil and I didnae."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 478018,
      "EditedText": "The 14th recommendation says:\"Councils should give particular consideration to formalising the political leadership as an executive, but should also be able to consider other options.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 478021,
      "EditedText": "I took the proposal as being non-prescriptive, although McIntosh expresses a preference in the report. I am not unhappy with the recommendation, as long as councils are not heavily leant on to do things to which they are averse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 478022,
      "EditedText": "This is not a particularly contentious issue. However, when Neil McIntosh comes before us again, we can clarify what was meant by the recommendation and by paragraphs 106 to 110 of his report. The 15th recommendation says:\"We do not consider that it is necessary at present to legislate to permit delegation to a single councillor nor direct election of a council leader; but we consider that the latter option should be kept in view, in light of developments which may take place elsewhere in Great Britain\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 478026,
      "EditedText": "We support the recommendation, because it was one of our manifesto commitments that where people want directly elected provosts they should be allowed to pursue that course. So there is someone else, apart from Frank, who supports the idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 478028,
      "EditedText": "No one at the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities meeting where it was discussed—apart from Frank—advocated it, that is for sure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 478032,
      "EditedText": "We agree with the philosophy behind it, but you could say, \"There is no whip\" and then, coincidentally, all the members of one party could vote the same way. There is a difficulty there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 478037,
      "EditedText": "In the nicest possible way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 478042,
      "EditedText": "Before I was elected, I was used to independents, although most councillors attached themselves to a political party. Everyone on the borough council, as it was then, worked for the community, not as a political force. What is invidious in the present system—Michael alluded to this—is not strictly the whipping, because some form of whipping will always take place, but the part played by the Executive's policy and resources behind doors, which has a knock-on effect on back-bench council group members. That is downward pressure from the people running the council on to ordinary councillors. Whipping becomes unbearable when it leaves no room for ward members to be flexible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 478043,
      "EditedText": "We must remember that political parties arose out of a recognition that independent people of good will do not necessarily deliver the change that is wanted. Over time, many things have been run by independents. However, they did not necessarily promote the interests of the people whom I, for example, would want to support. The fact that there are issues about whipping does not mean that we are arguing that political parties should not operate inside local government, which is somehow nicer, more consensual and safer than other aspects of political life. In a lot of cases, local government is a lot harder, because people are making difficult decisions that have a direct impact on people's lives. I have made the case for people being more relaxed about how whipping operates on individual issues. However, it is legitimate for the electorate to have a general expectation that the person whom they elect, who purports to be part of a political party, will pursue the political programme of that party. If there is no whipping, people could use the party ticket. We do not know what people will do once elected. Everybody could be done a disservice. That is the other side of the argument. It is incumbent on groups within the political process to ensure, as was pointed out earlier, that individual members of a party have the freedom to participate in decisions. The only gain from being in a political party should not be that members are whipped, but that they are involved in the political decisions that define what the whip will be. The politics of the situation need to be opened up.On monitoring, we said early on that we did not want the Scottish Parliament to operate as some kind of police force or judge of local government. We are setting up structures for debate and dialogue between layers of government. The hope is that bodies will share the role of monitoring what individual local authorities do, through a joint covenant, a standing committee or another forum. We do not want to end up in a position where one sits in judgment of the other. The responsibility must be shared."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 478044,
      "EditedText": "Johann's point, which follows on from what Jamie said, is important. We must emphasise that there is partnership between the Parliament and local government. This is not a case of \"Big Brother is watching you\".As Sylvia said, best practice is important. When I was in Glasgow, if there were 18 items on the agenda, we would probably agree with the administration on 16 or 17 of them and would only argue over one. There is probably a lot more consensus in councils than the public realise. If there are strategic issues to debate, a meeting may last two hours, but at other times there is broad consensus and agreement can be reached within a few minutes. Whipping is important, because we do not want a situation such as they have in America, where everyone effectively represents their area rather than their party. They have a lot of pork-barrel politics, as it is called. That is why what Johann said is important. At the same time, we do not want the farcical situation that arises when a school faces closure and the local councillor abstains on the vote while everyone else votes for the closure. Then, when the next school comes up for consideration, the person who has abstained on his own school closure votes for that closure while the local councillor abstains. That makes the system ridiculous. We are just looking for a correct balance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 478046,
      "EditedText": "I certainly do not have any disagreement with it, which is what we are supposed to be talking about. It recommends\"organising the business so that a wider cross-section of the community could realistically consider taking on the responsibilities of council membership\"and that is very important. If you ask 100 members of the public what the council does, you get 100 different answers and, probably, very few of them are right because there is an education problem. There is no reason why someone should not visit a school for an hour, once a year, to talk about what the council, or the Scottish Parliament, does. Civic education does not have to be time-consuming. Such visits could try to generate interest and let people know about what they are expected to vote for for the rest of their lives and about the organisation that gathers in their council tax and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 478047,
      "EditedText": "With regard to\"taking on the responsibilities of council membership\"and altering the set-up so that a wider cross-section of people can become involved, we have to accept that some people are prepared to make financial sacrifices while others are not. It would be quite helpful if council meetings took place at a time of day that allowed people to do a bit of their job and then attend the meeting.The council that I came from held all its meetings during the day, so unless people were retired, self-employed or paid by a very understanding employer, they could not be councillors. The council's physical organisation discounts large numbers of people. The counter to that was that evening meetings would be difficult for the officials, but time off in lieu, or flexitime, is a possible solution. If we want more people to become involved with the councils, we have to be a little less prescriptive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 478048,
      "EditedText": "The solution to that problem does not lie solely in the way that councils organise their business. The problem should be dealt with by giving people greater rights to be elected councillors. Moving the meetings to the evening is not necessarily the answer, because that would solve problems for some people and create problems for others.Some sort of basic civic rights should be included in legislation to enable people to take part by being councillors. By and large, such rights have been eroded during recent years. In the past, people were more able to take up such roles, but gradually the role of the councillor became more demanding and the number of organisations that would allow people to become councillors became smaller all the time. We need to examine the whole question and not just put the onus on the council to hold its meetings at a time that allows people also to keep a job."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 478049,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that recommendations 17, 18 and 19 can be taken in isolation; they are all interconnected. Best practice may be in place regarding the timing of meetings, but if the level of remuneration to councillors means that professionals are not attracted to the posts because they would be financially disadvantaged, the exercise is wasted. A job description must include indications of the time that must be committed to doing the job of a councillor effectively. If there is not a decent remuneration package accompanying that, it will not be possible to encourage people to stand for election."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 478050,
      "EditedText": "The backdrop to this is that the reform of local government—when we created all-purpose councillors—set the system back. The responsibilities of councillors, whether district or regional, doubled as a result.Michael is right to say that those three points are interrelated. When I changed from being a district councillor to being a unitary councillor in the Highland region, I had a tremendous amount of responsibility. I also had a big area to cover. We had almost to become latter-day medieval princes in that we ruled a chunk of land that was so big that decisions were often delegated to the councillor.The poor pay that went with that resulted in the general public becoming even more discouraged from entering local politics. Single mums, people whose employers are not helpful about employees standing for council, sole traders and shopkeepers are discouraged.I have seen blokes with welding torches on oil-rig construction yards whose employers paid lip service to supporting those employees who wished to stand for election to the council. However, they could not stand for election because there was no flexibility in timing of meetings, which is vital.I have heard officials say that they would not attend meetings in evenings and that that would be out of order, but flexitime is the right approach.Colin sent out a strong message about that. The longer that people are discouraged from standing for local government, the more a basic part of local democracy will be undermined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 478058,
      "EditedText": "It would need to be done in conjunction with bodies representing the officials."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 478059,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 478060,
      "EditedText": "It does not say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 478064,
      "EditedText": "Contention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 478067,
      "EditedText": "This is not a direct question to Keith Harding, but one aspect of the rules should be clarified. We have just talked about partnerships in local government. Local businesspeople can deliver services on behalf of a local authority. It is possible for a local businessperson whose work is mostly for a local authority to stand for election, even though a janitor at a local school who is totally reliant on the authority for his income cannot. Why are local businesspeople allowed to make money from local authorities and stand for election, whereas local authority workers cannot?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 478068,
      "EditedText": "Under the existing legislation, a businessman would have to declare a financial interest, but would not be allowed to vote in the council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 478071,
      "EditedText": "It would affect every part of his working life, so he could not participate fully, could he?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 478073,
      "EditedText": "I also believe that this is an important issue. We sometimes concentrate on what might happen to people in the professions who might want to stand for councils but who cannot because they are employed. However, there are instances of people working for one authority and being an elected member of another. There is far clearer discrimination on the grounds of class and gender. Women are more likely to work in the public sector and in low-paid jobs. They are less likely to be able to travel to another authority to work in order to be a councillor in their locality. We should legislate against such discrimination. We will end up excluding people from participating in local government because they happen to be in low-paid jobs and are more likely to seek work in the public sector. Their voices are as valid as any others and are of great significance to the local community. It is not a matter of letting anybody stand. There would have to be a code of conduct. People would have to declare interests and so on. The current system discriminates and weakens the ability of local authorities to represent the broad spectrum of local opinion in a local community, even at the simple level of making it easier for women to participate in the democratic process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 478074,
      "EditedText": "It has seemed strange to me recently that one part of society is taken out of the equation, particularly in rural areas, where, to square the circle, people would need to be paid full-time wages to be a councillor. I would like to see that happen, but frankly I doubt that it will. Discrimination on the basis that someone works for the council is a silly situation that should be rectified soon. It could be a janitor or a teacher, who might have a standing and a role to play, but who, despite being of service to the community, is excluded. Many people in professions such as teaching give so much to the community, and to discriminate against them is wrong. That must be corrected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 478075,
      "EditedText": "The argument that teachers, social workers, cleaning ladies or janitors would somehow falsify the council's position or develop their own career at the council's expense is ludicrous. However, there has to be a bar against those in the most important or sensitive positions taking part in the council, and there should be a code of conduct. It is far better to have these matters in the open. If it is known that councillor X is a teacher, it is known where he or she is coming from. It is more insidious when there is gossip, when people say that so-and-so got the job as a janitor because he is friendly with such-and-such a councillor. Such a demoralising allegation of corruption could be made. If the matter is open and above board, allowances can be made for what the councillor says. In the large rural areas, the present system removes a large percentage of the potentially politically interested group. That is extremely damaging to democracy, and we should strongly support recommendation 22."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 478079,
      "EditedText": "I thought that you were going to sing or something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 478084,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what Colin says—I, too, came up through community councils all those years ago. He is right to say that many examples of best practice are not recognised.Michael rightly referred to other community groups and I accept his well-made point, but it is worth remembering that community councils are enshrined in legislation and have been—if my memory serves me correctly—since 1973.The suggestions in the bullet points on the paper would help to underpin community councils. I would like to flag up consideration of electronic and postal voting.There are self-perpetuating oligarchies which represent the worst practice in councils. The same bunches of people vote themselves back on to the councils each year. They often see themselves as a sort of kangaroo court, which is there periodically to hammer to a stake and burn the local unitary council member.One way round that would be to give community councils more responsibility. Those powers should not be prescriptive but should allow the councils to buy into some sorts of service provision. I have seen examples of community councils taking over landscaping and looking after flower beds in remote rural parts of the Highlands, for example. Often that has been cost-effective and the relevant authority has given financial support.Community councils can apply to local enterprise companies and can buy into other methods of fund-raising. Many small communities throughout Scotland have town-centre flower displays that are maintained by community councils. There are other opportunities—community councils can look after public toilets. Some of our 32 authorities have hard-pressed revenue budgets.I take issue with what Michael McMahon said—the point of community councils is that they are, by law, the bottom level of democracy, but I have seen some imperfect examples and we should recognise that the system is by no means perfect.Perhaps other members will not agree and will shoot at me for this, but I will test the water and say that I feel that the McIntosh report is slightly weak on whether community councils could buy into some form of service provision. No steer is given for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 478086,
      "EditedText": "It is horses for courses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 478091,
      "EditedText": "The role of community councils will be different in different areas, but they can play an important role. I am not convinced that they represent the lowest level of political participation: they often agitate for specific things, but they do not always pull people into the democratic process. I do not know whether McIntosh was naive, misguided or just optimistic, but I cannot see how we will engage with disaffected young people by giving them a vote in community council elections. There is an argument for them being given the vote, but I am not convinced that that would make a difference if it were only at community council level. Perhaps the first stage in engaging with young people would be to give credibility to organisations that they have organised or to give them support in developing structures that would give them influence at local level, whether that was youth committees in local authorities or youth parliaments. They would not be brought into the political process by being bolted on to a community council structure that saw them as a problem. One of the items on the agenda of community councils is discussion of the problems that young people pose for them. We must be imaginative and ask young people which resources and support would allow them to engage in the democratic process. Giving them a vote in community council elections seems to be a rather mechanistic solution and would not work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 478092,
      "EditedText": "I cannot think of anything that I would like less than to go to my local community council meeting.McIntosh emphasised the fact that the role of community councils should be considered in a wider context. One of the criticisms of McIntosh in the press was that he put too much emphasis on this section of the report. However, I believe that he is trying to get us to focus on revitalising the sector. The difficulty in Glasgow was that many community councils were allowed to plod on for  years. When the council put much effort into trying to make the community councils in Glasgow more sustainable, the number dropped from 109 to 65, not because the council was unsuccessful, but because it was successful: many community councils that did not produce minutes or meet regularly were wound up. The ones that were left were given more training and support—not as much support, at least financially, as they would have liked, but it was a good first step. McIntosh was trying to build on such a process by thinking of ways to encourage local participation, which can lead to other stages of political involvement such as joining a party or standing for election. He was not being prescriptive or suggesting that community councils were good and voluntary groups or tenants associations were less important. He was highlighting the fact that community councils are statutory bodies and that that should be taken into cognisance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 478098,
      "EditedText": "The McIntosh report refers to other groups such as area forums. However, apart from saying that there should not be conflict between groups, the report does not sufficiently emphasise that the roles of those organisations should be examined. When we set up organisations, we think that good things will just come out of happy chatter. Such organisations will take a long time to evolve; what is important is the relationship between the community council and other civic forums, including the groups that Michael McMahon mentioned. There might be examples of good practice in the areas that we can examine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 478103,
      "EditedText": "On first reading, it sounds as if a new organisation will be required. The recommendation states:\"The panel should include strong representation from local government, both elected members and officers, and a strong independent element\".Nothing like that has yet been set up.There is a panel with local government and independent representation, but not with members and officers. Would Donald like us to find out what the Executive thinks about that? Perhaps he could ask Wendy Alexander about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 478104,
      "EditedText": "How the panel operates is important. Everyone agrees that councils cannot say, \"Ach well, we reviewed ourselves and we are great,\" and leave it at that. That would not be in the spirit of the recommendations. However, there is the question of the authority of the panel, who the members are and what their agenda is. Will they believe in local authorities being allowed to do their own thing within the parameters of good practice? The recommendation implies that the councils are sitting a test and are either validated or are not at the end of it. I hope that it will be carried out in a spirit of co-operation and with the belief that councils are capable of carrying out a self-review. The panel should be a support service rather than an examination board. I should like to know how we define \"a strong independent element\" rather than somebody with a line to punt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 478109,
      "EditedText": "McIntosh did not know that there would be a Local Government Committee. If the commission had known, I am sure that that recommendation would have included the parliamentary Local Government Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 478110,
      "EditedText": "McIntosh says at one point that he does not know whether a local government committee will be formed. He would have refined his recommendations if he had known that there would be a parliamentary Local Government Committee. Frank McAveety is coming next week, so we can ask him about the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 478113,
      "EditedText": "We will discuss the issue with Frank.The last recommendation is that we take McIntosh as a package."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 478126,
      "EditedText": "My question arises from what you said about capital allocation. The section 94 rules mean that a council with a common good fund that would generate capital from current revenue has to spend that revenue within that calendar year. Does the Scottish Executive have any plans to relax those rules—to relieve the section 94 problem—thus enabling a fund for a particular project to be gathered over a number of years? Some people might call that creative accounting, but it could be workable and it would not affect the public sector borrowing requirement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 478122,
      "EditedText": "It is a pleasure to be here. I will try to keep my introductory comments brief to give us a good chance to have a question and answer session afterwards. I hope that the detailed background report that members received in advance of today's meeting was helpful. With me are Bill Howat and John Irving who will be available if the questions get too complex or detailed. If it would be helpful for the committee or individual members to have more information about things that arise during the discussion, I am happy to accommodate that. As an Executive, we want to see strong local government in Scotland. As an individual, I, too, take that view strongly. Local government finance must fit into the overall financial management of public expenditure in Scotland, but it is important that local government finance is strong, stable and that there is some consensus among local authorities on the arrangements that are in place. That is the approach that was taken by the Scottish Office after the 1997 election and we are keen to maintain it.Partly because local government accounts for such a large proportion of public expenditure in Scotland—some 40 per cent of the assigned budget—decisions on local government funding have a wide impact on the Executive and the Parliament's services and activities. The briefing paper does not cover housing, which has always been treated separately and which is the distinctive responsibility of Wendy Alexander. However, despite the fact that the housing remit lies elsewhere, I am sure that the committee will want to examine it in the context of local government at some stage. We are committed to modernising and reinvigorating the system of local government finance, as well as local government generally; we do not want to see the system as one where only stability is important. We do not want to be conservative in our approach to local government finance and the system that governs it. The system of finance is in good health. Over the next three years, there will be substantial increases in funding—the first real-terms increases for a long time. The three-year planning introduced by the comprehensive spending review will be helpful for authorities and for the system as a whole. The fact that we have not abolished controls on capital and revenue spending—which were important in the public interest—but have relaxed them is good for local democracy, local government and local services. I suspect that one of the committee's main interests will be the report of the McIntosh commission and the recommendation for an independent review of finance. It may be helpful for me to make some introductory comments about that, although I am sure that the subject will come up again in questions. The Executive has taken the firm view that now is not the time for an independent review of local government finance for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the existence of this committee and of the Parliament. An independent review may have been appropriate in the pre-devolution days when issues relating to local authority finance would never have received the attention that they will receive in this committee, in the Parliament and in the Executive. The existence of the committee and of the Parliament gives us an opportunity to discuss local authority finance issues over the next year or so and to move forward the debate about whether there should be an independent review and whether McIntosh should ever have had the remit to consider local authority finance. When McIntosh refers to an independent review of local authority finance, he means a review of the balance between local and central funding—not a review of the existence of the council tax, of the total amount of money in the system, of what is being spent or of the guidelines and controls that are applied from the centre. At the moment, a review of the balance between local and central funding would be inappropriate for two reasons.First, I reject the argument that local authorities in Scotland are not democratically accountable because they do not raise the majority of their revenue themselves. If that were the case, this Parliament would not be democratic and would have no mandate for the decisions that it makes.Secondly, there are several ways in which the balance between central and local funding could be altered significantly. We could transfer large services such as education from the control of local government to that of central Government. I recognise that there might be some support for that in the Parliament—I have heard Mr Monteith propose it—but the Executive does not favour such a policy.We could also reduce central Government support for local authorities and permit substantially higher increases in council tax than might otherwise be required or accepted. However, I do not think that that would be a good move at this time because it would introduce instability into the system, as well as threaten the assigned budget of the Executive and the Parliament.There would need to be serious long-term debate before the third option—returning business rates to local control—could come back on to the agenda. This winter we face a revaluation of non-domestic rates, which will introduce instability into the system. A large number of businesses will find that their rates bills move up or down. The rate poundage in Scotland is likely to be set at a figure different from that in England, breaking the link that has existed for several years. In those circumstances, it is inappropriate even to toy with the idea of changing the system of national non-domestic rates, although I do not close off any options for the medium or long term.Other issues to do with local authority finance—the idea of a local income tax has been mentioned—are policy matters that should be debated here rather than dealt with through an independent review.I wanted to spend some time on that issue, but I will now discuss the reviews that are currently under way. It is important that the system remains needs-based, that it is seen to be fair, that it has the support of most local authorities, that it is stable and that the balance between central and local expenditure—particularly in the short term, when local authorities have some indication of what money they may be getting from central Government—does not change dramatically.Reviews of the distribution system take place all the time through the distribution committee, which includes representatives of ourselves and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. Progress reports on those reviews are available at any time, and I hope that this committee will become a forum for regular discussion of distribution and related issues. Over the summer, we agreed that we would conduct a review of poverty and deprivation as factors in the distribution process. We are keen to agree a remit for that review with COSLA early in October and to make progress with it, so that it can influence the distribution settlement that arrived at this time next year.We also constantly review the capital allocation system, which has changed again in the period of the comprehensive spending review. The fact that we have abolished compulsory debt redemption and are now examining gross allocations, including receipts, in a flexible manner is a strong boost for local government and will lead to an improvement in its financial position. However, we need to keep the formulae for distribution of capital allocations under review to take account of new circumstances.We are conducting an on-going review with COSLA of shared priorities in the areas of police, social work, fire and education. It is important that we do that to ensure that we still have the same priorities and that both sides are happy that the system is working and that money is being spent on the priorities to which additional finance has been allocated.We have asked COSLA to discuss with the business community the opportunities for closer links between businesses and local councils. Business improvement districts would allow businesses in the cities to support financially—through an increased rate poundage—an improvement that might benefit them commercially, as well as the area. This idea is being debated in England, and we felt that authorities and businesses in Scotland should be allowed to consider it before coming back to the Parliament and the Executive with their thoughts. They have welcomed that opportunity, and we hope that they will pursue it in the months ahead.Wearing my other hat for a second, I am particularly keen to examine how we can develop not just joined-up government in Scotland, but joined-up financing of government. Given the momentum of Parliament and Executive, and the momentum of the new councils following the May elections, I see no reason why, over the next few years, we should not be able to pool funding streams between central Government and local government. In that way, we can make better use of our resources together, rather than always do things separately.We hope to have further productive discussions with COSLA in November, to announce in December initial allocations for next year and to have them agreed early in the new year. We expect the overall local government settlement to be announced as part of the expenditure statements that are due in October and will come before the Parliament for consideration at that time.I want to put on record my admiration for councillors, who do a tremendous job in an almost voluntary capacity and who manage large budgets—at times, more effectively than other parts of the public sector do. They have gone through many trials and tribulations over the past 20 years as they try to balance those budgets, and we can learn from them as much as they can learn from us. That is the approach that I have taken in both of my capacities, and I intend to continue on those lines.I also want to express my admiration for the day-to-day work of local authority staff, who over the past 20 years have had to be innovative in their use of resources to ensure the best deal for local people. I believe that the vast majority of people who work in the public sector do so not for the financial rewards, but because they are committed to what they are doing and to the services that they provide.The immediate future will be interesting and challenging. I want to involve this committee as often as possible in debates about the way ahead for local authority finance in Scotland. I look forward to many more meetings with you in the months and years to come."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 478131,
      "EditedText": "The comprehensive spending review has given us the opportunity to indicate at least what the overall cake might be over a three-year period. The guideline system gives us an opportunity—given that there will be no dramatic changes from year to year—to indicate to authorities where they might stand in relation to that. I am keen to ensure the maximum stability in long-term local authority budgeting, as I am keen to develop our own budgeting. The only caveat that I would add is that we will always be in the situation—certainly in the short term, in this Parliament—of agreeing an annual budget. The Parliament could, from year to year, change a figure that had been allocated to local authorities as the overall settlement for that year—that option will always be available to the Parliament. I see no reason why we cannot indicate two or even three years in advance what the resources might be and how they might be shared out. If we can move in that direction, that would be welcomed by councils and it would also be good for us. Local authority expenditure, because it makes up a large proportion of our overall expenditure, can seem to be an easy target when the Parliament wants to spend money on something else. If one of the other committees wants to spend extra money on transport or something, the easiest pot of gold to raid is the local authority budget, as that committee does not have the responsibility for spending that money. On the other hand, there will be constant pressure from individual members of the Parliament asking for their local authorities to be treated as special cases or for the formulae to be tweaked to allow certain projects to go ahead. Therefore, long-term stability would be in everybody's interests—the Parliament's as well as the local authorities'. We are keen to consider that, but there are no short-term easy answers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 478133,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is one example of how it could be helpful if central Government agencies and local government worked more closely and pooled resources. I would welcome any such ideas and initiatives, and I would encourage health boards and others to work closely with local councils, sharing resources and ensuring clarity about where responsibilities lie so that there is no duplication.Those of us—I say us, as I still think of myself as having a local government connection—who have been involved in local government over the past 20 years regularly spoke, in pre-reorganisation days, about links between housing and social work or between leisure and education and so on. I hope that the new single-tier councils have helped to secure those links. I am sure that we can all think of ways in which local authority services and Government services can work more closely together. We should also be creative and think about areas in which the services are not closely linked. There should be no reason why local authorities and central Government cannot share the same buildings or administrative resources, making use of slack resources at different times of the year. There should be more secondment between the officials of both tiers of government, so that experience and best practice could be shared. The links and co-ordination could be improved, and examples of best practice—in budgeting and financial management, for example—could be shared among services that have no connection as well as among those where a close connection exists. I am very positive about that whole agenda, but I take it in its widest possible sense. I would even go so far as to say that we should not restrict ourselves only to the services for which the Executive is responsible and for which local government is responsible. Three quarters of the civil servants who live and work in Scotland are employed by reserved departments at Westminster—the Inland Revenue, the Department of Social Security and so on. In the longer term, we will need to look at them as well, but that may be a discussion for another day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 478138,
      "EditedText": "The minister said that the problem would be that people would be punting for their own areas. I will try to put this in a political context without seriously punting for Glasgow—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 478140,
      "EditedText": "Glasgow is an illustration of the problem. The minister said that local government finances were in good health and that there was stability—the document that was distributed talks about the benefits of pooling business rates to give that kind of stability. Does he agree that exactly the opposite case could be made for a place such as Glasgow, where infrastructure is developed to support businesses but the business rates are distributed across the country, so that businesses do not benefit from that money? The services that the rates provide go far beyond Glasgow itself. The flight from the cities, which is to some extent due to the financial system, results in a smaller tax base to meet intense local need. If there is not to be an independent review of finance, in which such things could be explored in more detail, what is the minister's attitude to the debate about metropolitan status for cities such as Glasgow? Figures suggest that, by 2001 or 2002, the majority of people who work in Glasgow will live outside the city and will therefore not contribute through council tax. Is there some way of recognising the role that a city such as Glasgow plays in the broader cultural and economic life of Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 478142,
      "EditedText": "Jack, it will not surprise you that the Scottish National party favoured an independent review as part of the overall McIntosh package and therefore is not particularly happy with the Executive's decision. Do you agree—you probably will not, because you are a politician to your fingertips—that the fact that we will not have an independent review will make the public less easy about the outcome and the solution to financial affairs in local councils? In the present context, if the Executive and the Parliament make the decision, that gives it a heavy political overtone, whereas the public would feel a lot happier with an independent review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 478144,
      "EditedText": "It says in the paper on why the Executive has rejected an independent review of local finance that the modernising agenda for local government finance will be brought forward with COSLA and third parties. Which third parties are being considered, and, moving on from that, what examples are there of pooling funding streams? That is an area that a lot of people have talked about and that could move us on significantly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 478147,
      "EditedText": "I want to be absolutely clear on two points. First, I do not accept that the fact that local government in Scotland raises about 20 per cent of its own revenue leads to councils being unaccountable; they are accountable. If we were to use that formula to measure accountability, local councils would appear to be more accountable than us. None of the members around the table raises their own revenue and we should bear that in mind. However much Gil might want that to be different, that is the position.Secondly, and more seriously, the difficulty with the business rate revaluation this winter is that the valuations of property on which that revaluation will be based are obviously based on valuations made several years ago in England and Scotland, at the same time. The relative economic performance of both countries—and of different regions in England in comparison with Scotland—will have changed in that time; therefore, it is theoretically possible that we could end up with exactly the same rate poundage in Scotland to raise exactly the same amount of money in percentage terms as the English valuations would. It is more likely, however, that there will be a different rate poundage at the end of the revaluation exercise. The rate poundage in Scotland could be slightly higher or lower than that of England.The most important thing is that the amount of money raised in Scotland and England, in relative terms, would remain the same. Scottish businesses, in terms of what they pay to us in non-domestic rates, would not pay a penny more than their counterparts south of the border. In my view, they would not pay a penny less. It is vital that the nationwide—in the UK sense—system of non-domestic rates provides a level playing field. I want to reinforce that point. I have had a series of discussions with business organisations to try to minimise the turbulence that would be created by a possible small adjustment up or down in the rate poundage. There is a perception that that might affect the take, but it does not. The poundage will change if the valuations have changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 478149,
      "EditedText": "I welcome any attempt to be helpful. It is much appreciated and will be remembered—and quoted back regularly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 478151,
      "EditedText": "I think that Kenny is suggesting something that may be true, which is that the independent review may come out in support of the current system. From that point of view, I think—and my view is shared by my Executive colleagues—that, in the first two years of the Parliament, we need to be seen to be making changes as a result of the improved democratic scrutiny offered by the Parliament and Executive.One of the areas in which that can happen is in improved democratic scrutiny in committee, in Parliament and in the Executive, of the financial arrangements—their transparency and logic. Where it is sensible and prudent to do so, we should adapt and adjust those arrangements to deal with short-term and long-term difficulties.We start from a very strong position. The comprehensive spending review has produced real-terms increases in revenue expenditure for the next three years. The relaxation in capital controls has increased the availability of capital expenditure. The stability in the system in longer-term planning—it is not absolutely guaranteed year on year, but is at least indicated for three years—allows councils to plan ahead. The guidelines give us stability and transparency that we did not have under the capping regime. In all those areas, this committee and the Executive have an opportunity to consider how best to adjust the system of local authority finance so that it continues to be allocated on the basis of need and is best spent across Scotland. We must ensure that we use public resources, locally and centrally in Scotland, to the best possible effect. We will do that by taking actions and proving that we can do it. In the longer term, there may be a case for a wider review. This Parliament may consider that later in the session. In the short term, if we are seen to be taking those actions, we will all get the credit. The Executive and the Parliament are not in different corners: we are all in this together. We must use the committee structure of the Parliament to consider solutions, as well as to keep the Executive under scrutiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C477978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 12921,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12921,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 477978,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:26"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 477980,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that we had a discussion on 8."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 477982,
      "EditedText": "We had the committee report on it—I think that we should go straight to 9."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C477984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 477984,
      "EditedText": "I think that this one should be pulled back for further discussion. The Conservatives believe that unless we can maintain the link between the councillor and his or her ward, we should not change the system. It would be a good idea to wait until we have had the presentations that are scheduled for early October on the various systems that are available before we make a decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 477985,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I could offer a clarification. We are discussing which recommendations are contentious and which are not. The electoral system is a contentious issue, but there may be aspects of it that are less so. For example, \"in 2002\" in\"with a view to legislation which should take effect in time to govern the next council elections in 2002\",which is the recommendation for a review on proportional representation, is a bone of contention. I hope that if we decide that there should be a change in the system, it will indeed be implemented in time for the next elections. Does everyone on the committee agree with that—rather than wait six or eight years? In her letter to the committee, Wendy clarified that we \"were bound by the Partnership agreement to make immediate progress on electoral reform.\"It would be daft if, after we had rushed into this, some people thought that we should not implement any of the recommendations in time for the next elections."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 477986,
      "EditedText": "It is largely a question of practicality. It depends on what sort of electoral system we eventually agree on. If there was a substantial difference about, say, boundaries within a local authority area, there would probably be a need for some form of boundary review. That can take a considerable time and be quite contentious in each area. We cannot necessarily come to a conclusion about it, Kenny, until we know where we are going with the form of the local government election system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C477988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 477988,
      "EditedText": "I understand Bristow's point, but Kenny is saying that if we reach a conclusion there is no need to hold back. That principle would apply everywhere. It would mean our moving on instead of putting the issue on the back burner, as we have done in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 477990,
      "EditedText": "Time scales should not be an issue when dealing with matters of principle. Any change should be implemented in the time it takes to implement it effectively, ensuring that all factors have been considered.I suspect that I am not in a majority on the committee on this question—perhaps all the contention lies with me. However, I would not want us to spin this issue out—if I kept talking for long enough, we would not get a decision by the next election. If a consensus is building around a particular electoral system and it is feasible to put it in place, that should happen. However, it is unnecessary and unhelpful to have a preset timetable for that. We should agree the principle before implementing it in the most effective way.I want to return to some points that were made previously. I suggest that the electorate's ability to hold a member to account—in other words, to be able to remove them—should be added to the criteria set out in the bullet points on page 5 of the report. There is a reference to the councillor-ward link, but a councillor may hold his or her position by virtue of being on a party list. That means that if the council is doing one thing and the local community wants it to do something else, the member can disregard the community because, under the proportional system, it is not the community but the party that decides. Accountability, along with proportionality, is one of several issues that have to be balanced.It has never been clear to me what is meant by fair provision for independents. Independents should have representation that reflects their share of the electorate.We spoke before about the importance of the coherence of electoral systems. We must make a pragmatic judgment about whether different electoral systems operating at each level of government will enhance or damage our democracy. We may decide that that enhances and enriches democracy, but equally we may decide that it increases disaffection. We must recognise that this is the real world and that we cannot simply pick the system that we like best or that is in our party's best interests. We want an electoral system that will enhance local democracy and make it more likely that people will participate. We need to study the impact of having different electoral systems—even if they are all proportional—for European, Westminster, Scottish and local elections. That is not to say that we should not change the electoral system, but the issue needs to be addressed with the people who are promoting particular systems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 477991,
      "EditedText": "With regard to the time scale, I would have thought that we could reasonably say that any change should be introduced without avoidable delay. We all know that the system can delay things endlessly. I understood that Kenny was saying that we were strongly against that, and that there should be vigorous progress. I agree that it would be a mistake to tie ourselves to an arbitrary date. If we choose a system that involves lots of boundary provisions—which the system that I have suggested will not—we should allow time for the boundaries to be properly drawn. Last time, the boundaries were not properly drawn. In my view, the boundary commissioners for Scotland should all be put in jail.With regard to Johann's remarks, I am not sure where we stand. I presume that the Kerley committee has been told to go ahead on these five bullet points. Some of the points that Johann made were quite fair, but a single transferable vote gives the voter more power to throw people out and a fair deal for independents. This is not the time to argue such points specifically; my point is that I am not quite sure where we stand if we adopt criteria that differ from what the Executive and the McIntosh commission have given the Kerley committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 477993,
      "EditedText": "We will be accountable at the next general election. That might not come soon enough for some of the electorate, but it will always be hanging over us in one way or another.There is a great deal of meat in this issue, and we could talk about it for a long time. We have the five bullet points, and it would be interesting to know if there is anything there that is contentious in principle. Michael said that he wants to keep the councillor-ward link. I do not think that anyone disputes that in any way, shape or form, although there might be other ways of approaching the issue, Johann. Does anyone have a problem with proportionality?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 478000,
      "EditedText": "We are in danger of making heavy weather of this exercise. In referring to what I said previously—is distinguishing between contentious and semi-contentious the best way to proceed?As Keith mentioned—and as I have said—we must go briefly through the main points if we are going to gather information on a subject such as this. We can then move on, knowing that we will return to certain issues for fuller discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 478002,
      "EditedText": "I think that there will be considerable discussion on that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 478003,
      "EditedText": "There will.Recommendation 12 says:\"The legislation governing the Local Government Boundary Commission should be reviewed with a view to providing greater flexibility in determining ward boundaries.\"We have said more or less the same thing today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 478004,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the proposal is controversial; most people will agree with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 478012,
      "EditedText": "This is just an outline. The preceding recommendation about the standing joint conference was made in principle and we thought that we should be on that as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 478013,
      "EditedText": "I am just alluding to the minute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 478015,
      "EditedText": "No, because we photocopied the missing page."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 478016,
      "EditedText": "Very smart. For all of us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 478019,
      "EditedText": "We were not happy with that proposal at the start, but the fact that other options can be considered opens the issue. We think that local authorities should decide on what is best for them, so we do not have a problem with the proposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 478024,
      "EditedText": "We discussed that at party level, and we were unanimously opposed to the idea of directly elected provosts. The only person I know who is really keen on the idea is Frank McAveety—I am sure that that was the case on Glasgow City Council when we discussed the matter there. I see no reason why we cannot keep the matter in view as there will be directly elected mayors in England. We do not have a problem with number 15 as it is worded here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 478029,
      "EditedText": "We move on to recommendation 16, which reads:\"The political parties should review their advice to local parties on the application of the party whip to council business, so as to ensure that it is not applied inappropriately or indiscriminately. Councils should incorporate in their standing orders rules to the effect that where whipping is applied in council business it should be declared at the commencement of the relevant discussions and minuted for public information and record.\"All the ex-councillors say no. Laughter.."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C478030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 478030,
      "EditedText": "We do not disagree with the sentiment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 478031,
      "EditedText": "It is unenforceable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 478033,
      "EditedText": "Depending on the electoral system, this issue might be important for the freedom of local members to represent their communities and the ability of local communities to put pressure on their representative. I am not so naive as to think that there can be a system without whipping—a political party requires that—but there needs to be a space for councillors who represent communities that are so small that it is possible to be accountable at that level. If there is sensitivity about how the whip is applied and parties are encouraged to discuss openly how they manage their business, that will be a good thing for the public interest. Local members will have the space to respond to local people and, perhaps, some of the cynicism that arises when a whipped representative has been lobbied but cannot do anything will be dispelled. Being in favour of the recommendation in principle is about right; recognising and managing it is more complex. Nevertheless it is useful to have that kind of discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 478035,
      "EditedText": "You cannot legislate for what people do in private. I am sure that we all have our own anecdotes. I remember one occasion when a gentleman in another party seconded a motion. When he went to the loo some colleagues went with him, and when he came back he voted against the motion that he had seconded. Laughter. You cannot honestly legislate for that. You can, however, minute the occasions on which whipping occurs, as it says in the second sentence. Also, it would help if all party groups' standing orders were public documents. That would give some protection to the sort of councillor that Johann was talking about who is fighting for his or her local people. It could give such a councillor some support in standing up to any over-enthusiastic whips in their party."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 478039,
      "EditedText": "As someone who does not come from a local government background, I always used to assume that there was a whipping system in place. If one assumes that, one's judgment is based on that assumption. We are talking about moving from the status quo to something else, which might cause confusion. It is obvious that there is a whipping system in local government when party organisations are at work. Is the recommendation going to be as effective as people would like? How decisions are arrived at is fairly clear at the moment. Another system might cause confusion and people would have to have access to more information than they do at present. How can that information be guaranteed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 478040,
      "EditedText": "Just anecdotally, I come from a council and have some years of experience in which whipping was unknown and impractical; trying to get any decisions through the Highland Council was like herding cats. That poses questions about democracy and the role of officials, which are issues the committee may want to consider.I have one underlying concern that I want to flag up at this stage. The bullet points give indications to local authorities, and whether or not we agree to the recommendations they will go through. Who is the watchdog? We give these indications, but who is going to look at authority X and authority Y and say, \"They're not doing what we recommended about whipping or elected areas\"? You will recall that the Local Government etc (Scotland) Act 1994 said that there will be a scheme of decentralisation within the 32 authorities in Scotland. Who has ever looked at that scheme and what it does in different authorities? I just caution at this stage—I know that it is an overarching point but we need to bear it in mind. I do not want to use the word police because that gives entirely the wrong message, but who reviews it? Who goes back to see what is happening?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 478052,
      "EditedText": "As a member of the Scottish Parliament I hesitate to sit in judgment on anyone's ability to be flexible and to participate. We have high ideals about the Parliament being family-friendly, but I am not sure if that is being delivered, as a result of the pressure to be seen to be committed and hard-working. Perhaps that is a personal view, but I think it is an area that should be explored.A clear tension is now developing over what we want locally. There is a drive towards a kind of professionalism and huge responsibilities in some of the jobs that we are asking some of our council people to do. We are asking them to make immense decisions that have a huge impact on people's lives. If they are to be a match for, and able to work with, the officials, they must be briefed and given huge amounts of time.That is only one side: the job descriptions and pressures. On the other side, there should be an opportunity for people who are working to participate in local government, partly because they bring a different view from that of professional politicians. One of the strengths of a professional politician is that they have a lot of time in which to address what they think is important. They do not necessarily have a nodding acquaintance with what the rest of the world feels, however. If someone is working and acting as a councillor, that feeds and strengthens the decision-making process. The difficulty arises when folk are working and are trying to manage that as well. I should here declare an interest, as my husband is a councillor.One way in which we could deal with that problem would be to have meetings at night, although that would go against any family-friendly conditions that we might want to promote. There is no easy answer. I have often heard councillors say that they have organised a meeting for half-past 11, at which time people cannot participate. Equally, if meetings are during the day, others are excluded and that important voluntary aspect of being a councillor is denied. That is something that we might want to explore further with councillors.We might also consider whether councillors have experienced a drive, locally, towards people being forced to give up that kind of work full time, and whether measures have been taken to include people who are holding down full-time jobs at the same time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 478053,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We are dealing with the three recommendations together—fair enough. However, we have more questions to ask, and we need more information. Within those three areas there are specific comments to be made. All councils should produce a job description for members. I agree with Donald that there should be a full-time job description and a part-time one. That may also link to the next recommendation. It says: \"Remuneration for councillors should in future be subject to independent review.\"People who work full time would get a different salary from that of those who work part time. We agree with that, in principle. That kind of thing will come up again in discussions with councillors. There is a lot of talent out there that councils could use, but those people cannot participate because of work commitments or because, as Jamie said, the times of meetings are wrong. We will come back to that, and will get more information about it when we visit councils.Let us move on. Recommendation 20 states that\"Scottish ministers and COSLA should jointly address the issue of the provision and resourcing of future arrangements for member training and personal development\".I take it that that means councillors. Does anybody have any objection to councillors being trained?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 478055,
      "EditedText": "Recommendation 21 suggests that\"COSLA should draw up a mutual protocol of understanding, governing the relationship between elected members and officers.\"Do members have any problem with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 478056,
      "EditedText": "I am now going to elaborate my point about independent councils in which there is no whipping. The danger of not having whipping is that over-mighty officials can end up steering through policies and procedures that are official-driven rather than member-driven. The formalisation of the relationship between officials and members could clear the decks and get rid of some practice that is close to the wind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 478061,
      "EditedText": "It needs to be said.Recommendation 22 states:\"Subject to appropriate safeguards, employees other than the most senior and those in politically sensitive posts should be permitted to stand for election and to serve as elected members.\"It does not say \"stand for election in another council\", so one can assume that it is referring to the council for which employees work. Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C478062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 478062,
      "EditedText": "This is one of McIntosh's more important recommendations. The exclusion of people from standing for election to local authorities has been damaging to local government in recent years. I recognise that the director of a department should not be allowed to stand for election as a member of a political party. However, the fact that no one who works for a local authority can be elected to it prevents a huge swathe of the population from standing. In most areas of Scotland the local authority is the biggest employer by some margin; to place thousands of people in each local authority area outside the democratic process is fundamentally wrong. We have to set a cut-off point, but it should be fairly high up in the policy-making process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 478065,
      "EditedText": "I will ignore that red rag. Perhaps we need to add that each local authority should have a code of conduct, which would stipulate that if, for example, an employee worked for the education service, they could not serve on the education committee. I seek guidance on this—others may be able to counter the point that I have just made. Do members see where I am coming from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 478069,
      "EditedText": "On the budget. He would be allowed to vote on other matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 478070,
      "EditedText": "Why could not a local employee declare an interest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 478072,
      "EditedText": "I will move on. I will ask Johann and then Gil to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0973846+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 478078,
      "EditedText": "When you are ready, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 478080,
      "EditedText": "I will if you want me to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 478082,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the call for a review, because I am not convinced that community councils should be given such a prominent role. They can be valuable where they are effective, but in all too many cases they are neither effective nor representative. The relationship with local government of community councils, local voluntary groups and tenants and residents associations must be examined in its entirety. I am not convinced that community councils are the best way and should take the lead. I am not saying that that is not the case, but it is important that they should be reviewed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 478083,
      "EditedText": "I came into politics through parish-pump politics and community councils. When I was first elected to a community council, in Kilbarchan, we actually held a ballot—with ballot boxes—because we had managed to get sufficient nominations to need a genuine election. That set us up on a democratic footing.There is much to be said for community councils, which make an important contribution to people's political education. What has happened to community councils over the past 20 to 25 years—since their inception—is that the amount of power available to them has diminished incredibly. As a result, people have become disheartened and walked away.I was lobbied at a filling station before the previous election by somebody who knew who I was—even though I did not know who he was. He was a member of a community council and was upset about the fact that the amount of money that was available to it had decreased steadily over the years. The only money that the council had to spend was that which it had raised itself, which made things difficult.Community councils are about the devolution of power and responsibility from local councils. I know that they are not all perfect and that they are sometimes made up of the same wee cliques of activists who pop up in every organisation in an area. We know the people who are like that.However, the best community councillors are  underrated; and we should look at rectifying that throughout the country. Importantly, it would suck people into the democratic process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 478089,
      "EditedText": "In case members think that I was trying to come down on community councils, let me say that that is not the case. There are good community councils, and where they are effective they should be welcomed. However, there is a perception that that is not always the case.In some areas, tenants associations, residents associations and strong voluntary groups provide the most effective way of doing things. It is not right to assume, as the McIntosh report does, that community councils are the most effective way to do things, although, as Jamie pointed out, they might be enshrined in legislation.Legislation could be widened to put other organisations on the same footing as community councils, so that people could be represented in that way. We should not assume that community councils are the best system. I was not having a go at community councils but was emphasising the review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C478090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 478090,
      "EditedText": "I accept that. Henry McLeish has done good work on the youth parliament, and I am surprised that McIntosh said nothing about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 478093,
      "EditedText": "Having a connection with community councils is important, and they could play a greater role in the political process. However, we should remember that other organisations operate at local level; we should respect them, too. It is dangerous to think that there is only one way to regenerate the democratic process, as that might exclude people who are working in non-statutory areas. That is not McIntosh's intention, but it is the danger.I once lived in an area where there were elections to community councils, which is not necessary in many cities because of the level of participation. Theoretically, community councils can make people interested, but that is not the case in many places because people choose other methods. We can generate local community interest in a variety of ways, not just through the formal structure of the community council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 478097,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and ex-councillors will not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7536133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 478102,
      "EditedText": "If a new organisation is required, can we have a say about its membership?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 478107,
      "EditedText": "You should pursue it, and if we are not satisfied with how you have pursued it, we can ask Wendy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C478108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 478108,
      "EditedText": "The recommendation states:\"a panel of advisers should be appointed, by Ministers jointly with COSLA and subject to the approval of the Parliament\".That is interesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C478111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 478111,
      "EditedText": "The underlying issue is whether we are best judged by our peers or by an independent person who knows nothing about local government, as if they were from outer space, but who is wise and sensible. I choose judgment by our peers, as a good cross-section of forward-looking councillors and officials would judge their colleagues well. Somebody might know all about running airlines, but not understand local government. The House of Commons is littered with people who are whizzos in their own policy area but have made a hash of things as politicians. If someone is used to an area where they say jump and everyone jumps, it can be a problem to come into local government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C478112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 478112,
      "EditedText": "If we liken this to the monitoring in higher education, there is always the first stage of deciding what to monitor. Johann mentioned the operational aspect. The document states that the scrutiny should be done sensitively, but that does not come across in the recommendation. One of the worst things that could happen in terms of moving forward in partnership with local government would be if the panel seemed like an external body that made its assessment in the worst kind of way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C478115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 478115,
      "EditedText": "It would have saved a lot of time if we had said at the start that we had to take it all as a package or reject it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12922,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 12922,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 478119,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 478125,
      "EditedText": "A difficulty with the demand or request for an independent review of local authority finance is that, although there seems to be a consistency of approach among the people who are suggesting such a review, almost all of them have a different reason. Perhaps that in itself is a good reason for having an independent review. However, we have a new Executive, a new Parliament and a new Local Government Committee, and I hope that we would think carefully before going down the road of having an independent review of local authority finance. I hope that, as an Executive and as a Parliament, we would make a specific decision to consider the policy options that this committee has mentioned, because a full-scale review would have to do that.The problem in responding to the McIntosh report is that it specifically refers to an independent review in the context of the balance between central and local funding of local government services. There are only three ways to change that balance—the three that I outlined. I do not think that any of them commands majority support in the Parliament. The Executive agrees that it would be better, in the short term, for us to improve the distribution system and the capital allocation system; it would also be better in the short term to get through this winter's non-domestic rates revaluation—and the kind of instability that such revaluation has caused in the past—and through the period of increased resources resulting from the comprehensive spending review. Then we could perhaps consider whether we wanted to review the whole system, because by that time this committee will have had many debates, the Parliament will have had debates, the local authorities will have had some stability in their finances and the distribution system reviews will have started to bed in. The Executive believes that it would be wrong to introduce the potential for instability in the short term, as would be caused by the suggestion that we might be considering either a dramatic change in the non-domestic rates system or a significant shift that would take one of the big services away from local government and put it more directly under central Government control. That is the thinking behind the announcements that were made this summer and, in particular, behind the response to McIntosh. The announcements have been a response to McIntosh's recommendations rather than to a theoretical demand for an independent review, which would be for the longer term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 478127,
      "EditedText": "I am looking hesitantly at Mr Howat on my left, who is the chair of the capital allocation planning committee, which is a joint committee with COSLA. I am not aware of any discussions on changing the rule at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C478128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Howat (Development Department, Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 478128,
      "EditedText": "We are aware of a number of different approaches by different councils, and if Mr Stone's proposal were to be put to us in a worktop way, I do not see any reason why it should not be considered. However, it would be for ministers to consider that proposal both in the context of the present allocation system and with due regard to the impact in the longer term of public expenditure in relation to the comprehensive spending review settlement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 478129,
      "EditedText": "We are opposed to a major reorganisation of the boundaries and sizes of authorities, and to any further splits in authorities like the ones that occurred during the recent reorganisation. However, I am acutely aware that many smaller authorities have difficulties with large-scale projects—because of their size, their revenue base and the size of their capital allocation, which is based on their population and other factors. Mr Stone is presumably referring to examples in the Highlands. I am aware of difficulties in the Borders with, for example, the financing of schools projects. In some small authorities, the move towards private finance initiatives can be difficult for commercial reasons. I would like it to go on record that I am willing to consider creative options to solve some of those problems; but we have to bear in mind the need to agree systems with COSLA that are fair to all authorities and that properly share out the cake in any financial year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C478130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 478130,
      "EditedText": "On the subject of stability in local government finance, it has been mentioned to me a few times that local authorities feel constrained by the current annual budget reviews. The system prevents them, not necessarily deliberately, from acting in the medium term—they have to consider only short-term budgetary matters. Would you like to say anything about that perception? Can the Scottish Executive do anything to address that situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 478134,
      "EditedText": "I was delighted that, in his opening remarks, Mr McConnell said that he would be conservative in his approach to local government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 478135,
      "EditedText": "I had a good teacher, Keith. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C478136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 478136,
      "EditedText": "That apart, I know that you are looking at next year's budgets. Has a decision been made as to whether local councils will again be expected to finance pay awards from efficiency savings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 478137,
      "EditedText": "No, a decision has not been made. I expect to clarify the position when the expenditure settlements are announced for next year. It is only fair to say that, in a number of detailed areas, it is important that our joint discussions with COSLA should be given their proper place. I would certainly be happy to come back to the committee once those discussions have taken place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 478141,
      "EditedText": "There is a whole range of points worth mentioning on this subject. First, although the current system of the minority of local government expenditure being raised by council tax and the majority effectively being raised by national taxation might seem an imbalance, it allows those people who, as is the case in Glasgow, live outside the city but work in it every day to pay towards local government services in the areas in which they benefit from them. Part of the justification for the current system is that national income tax and other taxes make a contribution; it is not all down to those who live in an area to pay their way. At least for the short term, it is also true that the distribution system—which is in theory, and largely in practice, based on needs—should take account of two factors in relation to places such as Glasgow. The first is the fact that Glasgow has a wider status; people who do not live there use the city every day and night. The second is deprivation factors, of which Glasgow in particular has pressed for a review. There is an assumption that councils would benefit directly if deprivation factors were to be given a slightly higher rating in the distribution system. That is true of Glasgow and of Dundee, where the problem of people using the city every day but not making a contribution to the cost of local services via council tax, or other ways, may be even more acute than in Glasgow.It is important that we get the distribution system right and the needs assessed correctly. It is also important that those needs include deprivation factors and the wider city status that pulls people in every day, thus increasing the use of services and the cost to the local authority. Particularly in cities, the idea of local businesses agreeing with the council that they and their employees benefit directly from a certain service—or could benefit from a service or infrastructure improvement—and of them paying for that service, should be of interest to local authorities and to the businesses. I am not referring to business improvement districts exactly, because we cannot always take an idea from elsewhere and use it in exactly the same way in this country. It is possible that we could reach some agreement on that over the next few years.Some of the services provided by Glasgow are not just Glasgow-wide, or even greater Glasgow-wide, but Scotland-wide. The status of cities such as Glasgow, and the services that it provides, should be recognised in other parts of the Executive's budget, in relation to grants awarded for specific services or the delivery of our own services in those areas. Many different factors are involved, but it would not be inaccurate to say that I sympathise with the position, particularly in Glasgow and Dundee, where there is a gap between the local taxation base and the number of people who use the cities' services every day. We cannot change dramatically, or overnight, the system of local authority finance to cope with that, but the distribution system should be sensitive enough to try to deal with the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 478143,
      "EditedText": "That depends on what we do. If we respond to public concerns, particularly on the points raised by Johann Lamont and others, and if we are seen to be responding promptly, that would be welcomed by those who elect local authorities and who elected us. That is one of the things that the Parliament should be seen to be doing. We should not, as was always feared, distort the relationship between local authorities and central Government or shift the balance of power, but secure improvements. Even if those improvements are just adjustments to the system, people can see the effects in their everyday lives. If, as a Parliament and as an Executive, we can be seen to deliver those improvements, whether one party or four parties supported them, that would be a good thing and people in Scotland would welcome the fact that we had taken that action. It is down to us at the end of the day and if we do the right things, respond sensitively to legitimately raised concerns and are seen to be making sensible choices, that will be a good thing.Although the system of local authority finance is broadly accepted by people in Scotland, and the council tax is remarkably well accepted given the controversies that surrounded its predecessor, in the past it has left a lot to be desired in terms of transparency. That was a consequence of the nature of Westminster Government, and the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Executive can improve the transparency of decision making: we can explain the nature of decisions and grant allocations; we can debate the guidelines and controls, or the lack of them, and put forward different points of view.One of the beauties of devolution is that the framework within which local government in Scotland operates will be open to more democratic scrutiny. That is what we are here for and, in the early stages of the Parliament and Executive, it is what we should be doing. In the longer term, there may well be a case for independent review but, in the first year or so of the Parliament, we should take that responsibility ourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C478145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 478145,
      "EditedText": "The third parties would vary according to context. In relation to business improvement districts or ideas like that, representatives of business organisations in Scotland could play a role. There should be discussions with the voluntary sector and with other parts of the public sector. We should be taking a flexible approach to trying to improve what we do. I said earlier when Dr Jackson was not in the room that I am keen that we share best practice and experience and swap skills between central and local government in Scotland, and perhaps with the departments at Westminster with responsibility for reserved matters. We could deliver local and Scottish government services in a more joined-up way and, in the longer term, we could do the same thing with the reserved areas. Sharing resources, cutting out duplication, making best use of good practice, swapping management skills and making more flexible use of direct service provision should all be on the agenda, but we need to do things sensibly and take a long-term perspective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C478146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 478146,
      "EditedText": "Jack alluded to the prospect that the rate poundage will change and there may be a disparity between Scotland and England. The last time that happened it was a horrendous experience for householders—although that would not happen again—and businesses in Scotland. He said that the upheaval created by revaluation was a reason for not having a review. However, if the five-year revaluation is coupled with the fact that, as Jack also pointed out, councils only raise 20 per cent of their budget, which makes them unaccountable to the public for their spending, that makes two good reasons for looking again at the financing of local government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C478152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2697
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 12923,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ID": 12923,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 478152,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Jack. It is now 5 o'clock and we have been here since 2 o'clock. I will not abuse the convener's role by asking a question now, but I will say that I was pleased by what you said about the progress of the distribution. I was pleased to hear that you would welcome that matter coming back to this committee. I think that this committee will want to keep its eye on that.As an ex-councillor, I am delighted by the idea of a three-year spending projection. I am thinking of the budgets not only for local authorities, but for voluntary organisations and other funding bodies. The idea also links in with what Bristow said, as once it has been established clearly whether it is the local authority or the health board that looks after the patient or client, it will be helpful to have an idea of funding. You have been here for 45 minutes. It will not be your last 45 minutes before this committee; you will be back. We hope that Eugene Windsor and your diary secretary will make arrangements so that you will be here for longer next time. That will allow us to pursue some of the issues that we opened up this afternoon. On behalf of the committee, I thank you and your officials for attending. Your officials were not put on the hot spot, but they should not hold their breath next time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.7692343+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 190539,
      "EditedText": "I know that Martin Verity has highlighted three areas for consideration by the committee. One of them is whether we want to seek the views of other organisations on the education consultation paper. I received information from the Equal Opportunities Commission, which has done quite a bit of detailed work on a proofing system. Perhaps we should invite a representative from the commission along and consider using the consultation paper as a template, so that we could get an idea of how such a template might work and what the outcome would be. That would be an opportunity to run something through the proofing system and to see what the commission has to offer. It would also give us something more constructive to work with; it could lead to a template. We do not want this committee to have to reinvent the wheel when much good work has already been done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 190593,
      "EditedText": "Should we contact the Convener of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee and look into organising an informal briefing to examine the issue raised by the DPHS? That would ensure that members of that committee are also aware of the issues and can try to find a way of making progress. I am sure that any amendment that was lodged jointly by the Equal Opportunities Committee and the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee would carry a lot of weight."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 4561,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4561,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 190478,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Tommy Sheridan to his first Equal Opportunities Committee meeting, although he attended briefings during the recess. At our first meeting, other members declared their interests; if you have any interests to declare, Tommy, will you do so now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 190481,
      "EditedText": "The next item is the Macpherson report. Michael McMahon headed the group that considered the report and I ask him to lead off the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 190493,
      "EditedText": "The group has done really well in just one week. The work had to be done in a week because we were not in control of the date of the end of the consultation period, which is 30 September. Even though the group has had only one week, it has covered all the areas of concern and formed the basis for questions for Jim Wallace next Tuesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 190494,
      "EditedText": "I must apologise; I should have e-mailed Michael with all my points.One of the problems—perhaps I should say realities rather than problems—that we might have with the education bill is that, in Scotland, we do not have a national curriculum. That is one of the constraints within which we are working. Is that right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 190496,
      "EditedText": "That is not what I meant. The point that I am making is that the action plan says that there is not a national curriculum in Scotland. That is the context in which we must discuss education. Perhaps we need to change the wording."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 190498,
      "EditedText": "I have made a note of that. Is there anything else on which members who were not involved in the sub-group want to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 190504,
      "EditedText": "Can I have clarification on whether Jackie Baillie is coming for general questioning on the same day? Will that happen, or would it be better to stick to the one subject?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 190505,
      "EditedText": "We could ask Jackie Baillie to come another time; I do not think that that would be a problem. We could have Jim Wallace on his own and spend an hour afterwards finalising the report so that we can submit it by 30 September. I would like Jackie to come here as soon as possible to discuss the wider agenda of equality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 190509,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy with that arrangement? We could keep Jackie Baillie for another half an hour or so and then discuss the final submission. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 190518,
      "EditedText": "Did we specify that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 190521,
      "EditedText": "If people want to do that, that is fine. If I can have a week in which to speak to people, we may be able to get some sort of equal representation on each of the groups. All four areas are equally important, so I think that we should have reasonable representation on all of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 190523,
      "EditedText": "Three is the minimum. Any bigger than four or five and we have half the committee; any smaller and there would not be enough people to get the work done. How many were on the race group?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 190524,
      "EditedText": "Five."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 190530,
      "EditedText": "Something on page 2 of paper 99/3/3 concerns me. It says that because\"equal opportunities is a reserved matter, it is unlikely that the Bureau will normally refer an Executive Bill to this committee.\"In a sense, it does not matter whether the bureau refers it or not, because we can still look at it. However, if that is the bureau's thinking, I am worried. If members of the bureau are thinking about equal opportunities solely in terms of legislation, perhaps they need some education in equal opportunities. I do not know whether that is what the bureau really thinks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 190531,
      "EditedText": "I am surprised by that; it is certainly not the impression that I get. In the report to the conveners liaison committee, the equal opportunities and social inclusion committees were seen as being responsible for every piece of legislation and as cutting across every issue that the Parliament would consider. I am not too concerned about that, because we must remember that we can look at legislation without its being referred to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 190532,
      "EditedText": "That was my interpretation of the standing orders. Under the procedures by which a bill is considered, the bureau refers a bill to the committee to go through it line by line, as a standing committee would do. That does not prevent any committee from being interested in the bill, although it is my understanding that the formal reference would be to the committee within whose remit the subject matter of the bill falls. Only if the subject matter of a bill fell within the remit of more than one committee would the bureau need to appoint more than one committee. It would then designate one of them as a lead committee. That would not prevent any other committee from expressing views on a bill and passing them to the lead committee. The phrase does not imply that the bureau is not concerned about equality of opportunity; it relates to the process by which we envisage that a bill would be referred to particular committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 190533,
      "EditedText": "Excuse my ignorance, Kate, but can you give me some information about the size and scope of the equality unit that is referred to in paragraph 10 of the consultation paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 190537,
      "EditedText": "Until we see what the unit is doing, it will be difficult to say. The unit works to the Executive and this committee exists to scrutinise what the Executive is doing as well as what the unit is doing. Things will become clearer when we see the kind of equal opportunities policy statements that are produced along with the legislation. In previous meetings, we have discussed our work load and we all realise that we will be heavily dependent on other organisations to help us scrutinise legislation. The education bill is one that we will want to scrutinise closely and comment on because, if we can get equality in education, that will be a good basis for the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C190538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 190538,
      "EditedText": "That brings us back to our previous discussion about how we should go about examining the legislation. That discussion hinged on the use of a template—some standardised format or method that we could use for all pieces of legislation. Before we can implement many of the conclusions about the improvement in Scottish education bill, we will need to have scrutinised it against the template. Then we would be in a position to make representations to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee or to seek guidance from other organisations on the equality issues that may be thrown up in the template and in our previous scrutiny of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 190541,
      "EditedText": "I share Tommy's hope that we will soon have an effective equality unit. However, the education bill will be introduced in November, before the unit is up and running.The education bill will not be the only one that we shall want to consider, but it will be one of the major ones. From the point of view of equality, it will be more important than perhaps land reform will be. There are probably equality dimensions to other bills, but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 190543,
      "EditedText": "I should not have said it and will withdraw it if necessary. We should make a serious effort to address the education bill because it will be our first piece of legislation and a challenge to the committee. I support Michael Matheson's suggestion that we should talk to the Equal Opportunities Commission, but we must involve other bodies, too. We could invite them, or we could just ask for written submissions about how the education bill affects their particular areas. We should do that in the next couple of months. The Macpherson report contains an important section on education, so there is some overlap. We should certainly look at the subject from that point of view. I suggest that we have a combination of written evidence and witness statements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 190545,
      "EditedText": "That would be one way of doing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 190547,
      "EditedText": "I return to the ill-fated equality unit. Do not you think that, as the Equal Opportunities Committee, we should flag up quite early our concern that, if the equality unit is not yet up and running—Interruption. Sorry. Is it established yet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 190548,
      "EditedText": "Some of the equality unit's staff are in post, but the head of the unit is not in post yet. I think that that should happen in the next couple of weeks, but the unit is not properly up and running yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 190549,
      "EditedText": "This committee has a wider political role than the unit does, in terms of what is happening across Scotland. We receive representations from various bodies and try to ensure that equal opportunities issues are at the heart of all of the Parliament's deliberations. However, with the greatest of respect, if there is a full-time unit that is staffed by professionals in the equal opportunities field, I would hope that the staff would have a more hands-on approach on the detail of legislation. That is why I am worried that the unit is not yet up and running. The legislative process has begun and I hope that we can tweak our muscles—so to speak—and say to the Executive that we are concerned that the equality unit should get on track as quickly as possible. Malcolm made the point that, if the unit is not ready in time for scrutiny of the education bill, we will have to be involved in that. There should be people in post who are sufficiently professional and qualified to be able to see things that members of the committee may not be able to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 190557,
      "EditedText": "When we see how the current exercise works—and how effective it is—we will have a basis for the future. We are feeling in the dark at the moment, but once we have been through the process with the education bill we will know what has been effective and what has not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 190559,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for the fact that most of my comments on the equality unit came from the paper on scrutiny of legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 190561,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could work out a timetable of when legislation will come out. Could we track legislation at its earlier stages, such as at the white—or even green—paper stage? Would it be possible to get a sheet of paper that maps out when legislation will come and shows which white and green papers will become legislation in the fullness of time? From that, we could work out a timetable on legislation—there is no doubt that that would help us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 190562,
      "EditedText": "Martin, how easy would that be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 190566,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, Martin—I do not mean to refer to the specifics of the timetable once a consultation paper has been published. I refer to the other pieces of legislation. Do we have a timetable for early 2001, for late 2001, for 2002 and so on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 190567,
      "EditedText": "The eight pieces of legislation are for the parliamentary year 1999-2000 and we do not know more than what has been published in the programme for government document. The purpose of this paper is to advise members that it should be possible to know which major bills are coming up and the broad timetable for each of them. Consultation papers—when they are published—and other business will come to the committee, and members might want to take an interest in secondary legislation—in Scottish statutory instruments. That will be difficult, but it is a question of watching out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 190569,
      "EditedText": "Yes, in any spare time that members have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 190570,
      "EditedText": "This report is simply for members' information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 190571,
      "EditedText": "The report shows how the committee can deal with the bills in which it is interested. In other words, members can invite organisations to submit their views. Members can decide whether they want the committee's views to be transmitted to the lead committee on a bill. Members can also, if they wish, send delegates—if that is the right word—to a lead committee, just as any MSP can sit in on a meeting of another committee and speak at the invitation of the convener. Even when a bill gets to stage 2—where a committee goes through the wording line by line—this committee could ask one or two of its members to attend the lead committee's meeting and, if necessary, to move amendments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 190572,
      "EditedText": "We requested this paper at the previous meeting and it covers parts of our earlier discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 190573,
      "EditedText": "It does not include a checklist, but it establishes a process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C190577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 190577,
      "EditedText": "On page 2, under \"Stage 1 consideration\", the report says: \"Each new Executive Bill, and the equal opportunities assessment within the accompanying explanatory memorandum will be placed on the agenda\".Am I right in thinking that the equal opportunities assessment will come from the equality unit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 190583,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 190584,
      "EditedText": "We will initiate the process for that bill as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 190589,
      "EditedText": "It is appropriate that we have that correspondence at this meeting because it highlights the committee's role. The DPHS wishes to build on existing legislation and is making the case that existing equal opportunities legislation is not strong enough. I am sure that the equality unit will examine legislation and decide whether the standard has been met. We are here to listen to people and say whether the standard is good enough. The correspondence provides a concrete example of what we should be doing, and I hope that we will invite someone from the DPHS to explain the changes that it wants implemented."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 190596,
      "EditedText": "A poacher turned gamekeeper might be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 190599,
      "EditedText": "I will try to organise an informal briefing soon with the two committees and representatives from the accessibility organisation and the DPHS."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 190605,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. The project team for the new Parliament buildings is examining the shapes of the rooms and the lighting to ensure that members of the public and of the Parliament can see signers from anywhere in the room. That will be welcomed.The only other correspondence is Howard Robinson's offer to meet the committee. What do members feel about that? Shall we get more information about the organisation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 190613,
      "EditedText": "Can the committee be represented by someone other than a committee member if no members go? If we leave the arrangement as you suggested and no one is able to make the meeting, the committee will not be represented."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 190614,
      "EditedText": "I will make sure that we are represented because Martin will let me know if no one puts their name forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 190615,
      "EditedText": "So if no one else goes, you will go?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 190617,
      "EditedText": "Which meeting is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 190620,
      "EditedText": "What are the details?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 190488,
      "EditedText": "The sub-group was unanimous in the view that the feasibility study was the way forward. That did not mean that members took a view on the body itself. Everyone agreed that there was a need for a separate Scottish feasibility study, because there would be few lessons to be learned from the study for England and Wales, which will be published next April."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 190502,
      "EditedText": "I have a question about the format of next week's meeting. What happens after 28 September? We have the basis of a response, but there will not be much time between the meeting of 28 September and the submission date of 30 September in which to pull something together. Has Michael thought about how we are to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 190609,
      "EditedText": "What about the second item of correspondence, which is an invitation to a consultation meeting. Is that an invitation specifically for the committee or is it for everyone?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Kate MacLean): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 190477,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for keeping members of the public waiting.We have received apologies from Elaine Smith, and Nora Radcliffe has told us that she will be late."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 190483,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone else from the group want to add to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 190484,
      "EditedText": "I had to leave the meeting early. The one area that has not been mentioned—perhaps because we knew that we would be asking about it—is the independent complaints commission. We may have underplayed that because we all knew that it would be an issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 190486,
      "EditedText": "My apologies, Michael."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 190489,
      "EditedText": "I do not have to apologise at all; I have a defective copy of the sub-group report, which has several missing paragraphs. Do other members have the same problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 190490,
      "EditedText": "At the end of the meeting, the group agreed on areas of unanimity and I drafted an initial report, asking members of the group to add specific questions. Once I had received those responses, I collated them into a fuller report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 190492,
      "EditedText": "One of the problems that we identified was that of time scale. We had only a week in which to invite the CRE to visit us, to consider the Macpherson report and to identify areas of personal interest. Having had the opportunity to be guided by the CRE on the response to the report, we had only five days to compile the final document. In order to complete the report, I had to write up the questions that we had agreed on, e-mail the members of the sub-group to give them the opportunity to put individual questions, finalise that report and send it back to the clerks to be distributed to the full committee.If we are going to be doing something like that in future, we require a longer time scale and greater consultation to ensure that the reports are as tight as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 190499,
      "EditedText": "The list is not exhaustive or inclusive; it is an indication of the areas identified by the group that could form the basis for a line of questioning. That is not to say that we must ask those questions. Committee members who have specific concerns can ask their own questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 190503,
      "EditedText": "I hope that questioning Jim Wallace will not take up the entire session. I was working on the basis that we would not spend three hours on that and that there would be time afterwards to finalise our response, having had some answers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 190506,
      "EditedText": "It would be valuable to have Jackie Baillie here to respond to issues raised by the Macpherson report, because she is responsible for implementing the advisory forum, among other things. It would be important to hear her contribution in terms of considering the issues that arise from the Lawrence inquiry in a positive way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 190507,
      "EditedText": "I will ask Martin to outline what has been arranged so far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 190508,
      "EditedText": "The arrangement is that Jim Wallace would be at the committee meeting from 2 o'clock until 3 o'clock; Jackie Baillie would sit with him. However, the expectation is that questions in that part of the meeting would be directed towards Jim Wallace and would concentrate on the Macpherson report, although Jim Wallace might ask Jackie Baillie to pick up the occasional question. Nevertheless, the thrust of that session would be on the Macpherson report.Jackie Baillie would remain after 3 o'clock for about three quarters of an hour to take questions on general equalities issues. Her officials are preparing a paper to give an idea of the programme of work on equalities undertaken by the department.Meetings in the afternoon normally run from 2 pm to 4 pm. The room will be booked until 5 pm, so there would be time after 3.45 to consider what had been said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 190512,
      "EditedText": "Given the submissions so far, perhaps we should we say that people can be members of two groups. That might be difficult to timetable, but it is clear from the choices that have been made that the distribution is not very even. I do not know how members feel about cross-party representation on all groups, but we should discuss whether it is necessary.Members may have a first preference and they might feel aggrieved if they cannot join that group. Equally, they may be quite keen to work on something else. I am floating that as a possibility, because, from the way things are turning out, there may be a slight problem of balance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 190516,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we specified that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 190519,
      "EditedText": "No. I have prepared a chart of the responses so far, which I have given to the convener, but not every member of the committee has a copy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C190520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 190520,
      "EditedText": "Would it be a good idea to list the four groups in order of preference?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 190535,
      "EditedText": "It is not a very big unit, but I cannot remember exactly how many people will be in it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 190536,
      "EditedText": "I ask because, if every piece of legislation is going to be referred to us, we could find ourselves bogged down with paperwork. If the equality aspects have already been considered by the unit and it is doing its job properly, the role of the committee might be more along the lines of fine tuning or monitoring. If the unit is properly resourced and staffed, what is the value of our looking in detail at all bills? I hope that the people in the unit will do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 190540,
      "EditedText": "I am quite happy with that. However, there are areas that the Equal Opportunities Commission does not cover, particularly the inclusion of kids with special needs. We may want to look at the way in which we segregate such children in Scotland and organisations that specialise in that area may want to lobby the committee. I know, for example, that one Scottish organisation is drafting an amendment to the education bill.I agree that inviting the Equal Opportunities Commission would give us a good start, but we would have to ask questions on as broad a range of topics as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 190544,
      "EditedText": "I do not know how well we are getting on with building up a database of organisations that we can consult. Are you suggesting that we could write to people saying that we are going to consider the bill and that we would like their comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 190550,
      "EditedText": "I will find out exactly what stage the unit is at. There are staff in post, and I imagine that they will be starting to do some work—it is only the head of the unit who is not yet in post. We will invite the unit to a meeting as soon as possible so that we can find out what it will be doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 190552,
      "EditedText": "Jackie Baillie will be here next week and members may want to question her about role of the equality unit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 190555,
      "EditedText": "We will write to the organisations in the database to ask for their comments. When we feel ready, we will also make arrangements to invite the Minister for Children and Education and the deputy ministers to a future committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 190560,
      "EditedText": "Please excuse me while I find the report. Everyone has it—even me. Do members have any questions or comments about the report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 190564,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, Martin, but at the previous meeting—I apologise for missing it—did you refer to the timetabling of legislation? I am more interested in that, so that we can try to anticipate—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 190565,
      "EditedText": "We know that there is a consultation paper and a draft education bill. Following the consultation exercise on the education bill, there are plans to introduce the revised bill in November. We can work out a timetable bearing that in mind. We know that the bureau will refer the matter to the appropriate committee—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 190568,
      "EditedText": "Just in our spare time, when we are not looking at anything else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 190575,
      "EditedText": "That is up to the committee; I have no objection to it. Do members have any other comments on the report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 190578,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 190582,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Although the unit is not fully operational, some people are doing the work.Martin has asked me whether the committee wants to consider the adults with incapacity bill, which is the other bill that we could look at."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 190587,
      "EditedText": "The committee might want to deal with some of the correspondence—for example, the first item of correspondence, which is from the Disabled Persons Housing Service and which asks us to consider proposed amendments to the building regulations. I think that most people will have received invitations—it is up to them, not the committee, to decide whether they want to accept them. We have just agreed that all correspondence will come to the committee; members can get copies from Martin. The committee can decide what to do with correspondence or individuals can decide what to do with it. I would have thought that the committee might want to decide what to do with the correspondence from the DPHS."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 190588,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful for us to get involved, because we might be able to achieve what the service asks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 190590,
      "EditedText": "The reporters group on disability might want to address that issue, as we have until December before comments have to be submitted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 190592,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 190594,
      "EditedText": "It might be useful to get advice from building standards officers or the professionals who are involved with building standards. That would give us an expert's interpretation of the regulations and of what might be possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 190600,
      "EditedText": "I take on board the point that Michael Matheson made, but the DPHS specifically asked us to get involved. It may be easier for the convener to organise an informal briefing for our committee than it is to organise an informal briefing for two committees. Should we not maintain our independence, so to speak, and make a recommendation to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee after having listened to what we have been told?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 190601,
      "EditedText": "There are crossover areas for committees. When we met the Commission for Racial Equality, we invited members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee along. I am not sure that any of them turned up, but we did invite them and we sent them details of the documents that were produced. Sometimes it is easier if two committees examine an issue. I will find out from Margaret Curran whether we can organise something reasonably quickly, but if that is going to be a problem we can organise a briefing for just this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 190606,
      "EditedText": "The convener should meet him and report back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 190616,
      "EditedText": "Yes, or I will nominate someone.Are there any more comments on the correspondence? The rest of it is just invitations. The Commission for Racial Equality has invited all members to attend a meeting. It is up to members to decide whether they want to go, but it would be good if a lot of us went, especially as everyone should be in Edinburgh on that day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 190618,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a note of that invitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 190619,
      "EditedText": "The invitation came after we prepared the papers, but I believe that it was sent to each member."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 190623,
      "EditedText": "We have not had a briefing on that issue. The committee has been deciding the briefings that it wishes to have. I am happy to organise any briefings that members feel would be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 190625,
      "EditedText": "We will have to have a briefing at an open formal meeting—it is getting difficult to fit in extra meetings between our formal meetings.All the business has been dealt with. Thank you for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 190626,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:14."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 190574,
      "EditedText": "On Martin's final point, I see that, under the heading \"Issues\", the report refers to a proofing checklist. I do not know whether that is appropriate terminology, but I take it that that refers to a template of some sort. We should have a template in the consultation phase, so should that not also be included under the heading\"Mechanisms for scrutiny of legislation\"?That was identified as an issue at the previous meeting, as it does not fit into the system that is outlined in the report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 190581,
      "EditedText": "As a point of interest, the memorandum for the emergency legislation contained a statement on equal opportunities, so I presume that something could be produced for the education bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 190485,
      "EditedText": "It is referred to at the bottom of page 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 190515,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify whether we were expected to put our names down for two sub-groups?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 190611,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether, rather than sending a group of individuals, we ought to send someone as a committee representative, so that we are seen to be responding to the invitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 21 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4560,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4560,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 190476,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:14"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 4561,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4561,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 190479,
      "EditedText": "I have spoken to the clerk about that. The only interest that I have declared in the clerks' office is that I write a couple of newspaper columns. I have nothing else to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 4561,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4561,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 190480,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 190482,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that I need to go through the list of questions that the group identified. Even before we went through the action plan with the Commission for Racial Equality, it became clear that our report would be incomplete without allowing the committee the opportunity to question Jim Wallace in his capacity as Minister for Justice. The group felt that we could work through the action plan to find its gaps and strengths and to look for opportunities for the committee to tighten up its suggestions. We considered the overall themes running through the report as well as some specific suggestions that could be made on certain issues identified in the report. I suggested to the group that we produce a list of the areas in which we felt we could make a contribution or about which we could at least ask for greater clarification. It would be impossible to draft a report without having the opportunity to speak to Jim Wallace first. All we can do is to lay the list before the committee and allow members to decide whether they have anything to add. We could then use the list as a basis for putting a line of questioning to Jim Wallace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 190487,
      "EditedText": "I hoped that the matter had been referred to and I am glad that Malcolm has brought it up. It is an important point to raise with Jim Wallace next week. I would hope that a cross-party group would express concern about the lack of an independent complaints body. I want to maintain the cross-party approach in seeking such a body for Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 190491,
      "EditedText": "I must have the original report. All is explained."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 190495,
      "EditedText": "I think that that was one of the questions that we identified at the end of the meeting. There were some subjects that we considered to be more properly in the remit of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee; it would be wrong for us to ask questions on those. There were other subjects that fell within the remit of other committees and we did not know whether we should comment on areas that were not specific to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 190500,
      "EditedText": "If members have other questions, they may find it useful to have a chat with Michael McMahon, because the group may already have discussed those issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 190501,
      "EditedText": "On the question of education, the issue of the volume of work that has been left to head teachers needs much wider scrutiny. The teachers to whom I have spoken have complained bitterly about the volume of non-teaching work that they are required to carry out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 190510,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 190511,
      "EditedText": "Item 4 on the agenda is reporters groups. We have had a rather patchy response. Some people have not put their names forward for any groups. Members could volunteer for groups now, or we could leave it for another week—we cannot have groups that comprise only one person.We have four main areas and we must ensure that those are covered. I think that we should allow another week for members to indicate in which groups they are interested so that we have reasonable representation on each group. I will speak to members individually. Some members have perhaps forgotten to submit their preferences."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 190513,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, not every party can be represented on the working groups. However, I would prefer it if each group did not consist of just one party. I see no reason why people should not be on two groups, as some of the groups will meet only in the short term to look at specific areas. The problem will be in organising meetings to avoid giving people two commitments at the same time. That may be complicated, but I see no reason why we should not do it.Would members like to leave it to me to sort out the matter with people over the next week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 190514,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 190522,
      "EditedText": "What number are we aiming for in a group? Three?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 190525,
      "EditedText": "Three would seem adequate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 190526,
      "EditedText": "Right. We will get that sorted out for next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 190527,
      "EditedText": "The next item is the improvement in Scottish education bill. We must discuss what we are going to do with it. Did you raise this item for the agenda, Malcolm?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 190528,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I did, but it should certainly be on the agenda, so I am glad that somebody did."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 190529,
      "EditedText": "We must decide whether we want this item on future agendas. The bill is one of the important pieces of legislation that the committee should look at. This committee could make representations about the bill to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. We could consult other organisations and we could also have Sam Galbraith along to answer questions. Lots of organisations would like to have some input into the debate. Last night, I was at an inclusion group event held by an organisation that is making representations to the education committee. I suggested that it might want to make representations to this committee on the specific equal opportunities implications of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 190534,
      "EditedText": "We are going to invite the equality unit along to the committee. The group works to the Executive, not to this committee, and is responsible for equality proofing legislation. The person who will head the unit is not yet in post and we will invite them along to ask them what their role is. I do not know how many people will be working in the unit. Do you know, Martin?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 190542,
      "EditedText": "You will get a lot of letters from people about having said that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 190551,
      "EditedText": "For some time, a consistent theme has been that we do not need to reinvent the wheel. Many people have done a huge amount of positive work and we hope to have very close liaison with the equality unit. The fact that the unit exists means that it will be consulted at the earliest stages of legislation; we are likely to be happy with that process. This committee's role, as a non-Executive body that scrutinises the work of the Executive, is different from the role of the equality unit. We cannot deal with all the legislation, but it is important for equal opportunities organisations to know that they can lobby this committee and make representations to us. Organisations that have amendments or areas of concern should think of this committee as the first base. We do not want to write to those organisations later in the process to ask for their representations; we would prefer them automatically to give us their comments when legislation is coming on stream, so that we can be a filter or focus. That is why a procedure is important—yes, we want to see all legislation, but we will not necessarily want to scrutinise all of it. People beavering away in an organisation will know that they could access us in order to comment on a piece of legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 190554,
      "EditedText": "We need to have templates and checklists and so on. However, my anxiety is that we might end up with a mechanistic approach to legislation that would not deal with the underlying political debate. Organisations can make representations, however, and we need to access the issues and the political debate that Tommy referred to. Mechanisms will allow us to put aside the non-contentious issues and to focus on the political issues that organisations want to pursue with the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 190558,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to scrutiny of legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 190563,
      "EditedText": "In a sense, what is knowable is known already. The programme for government document outlines the broad framework of the Government's priorities until 2003. The consultation papers that have been published so far are available on the Scottish Executive's website and we can get information about them—most of that information was circulated at our previous meeting. We are aware of the legislative programme—the eight bills that have been announced for this parliamentary year—and will be advised of proposals for bills as they come out. The same applies to papers and so on that are laid before the Parliament, about which we will be notified in the business bulletin. We know as much as can be known at present. Perhaps I should ensure that, meeting by meeting, the committee is advised of anything new that has come out since the previous meeting. We know that the education bill has come out—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 190576,
      "EditedText": "As a matter of routine, when we are first dealing with a piece of legislation, we should have in front of us the questions that we have to decide at the end of the process. Do we want to pass our comments to the lead committee—yes or no? Do we want to make amendments, and, if so, what are the amendments? Do we want delegates to attend the lead committee—yes or no? We could quickly dispose of those pieces of legislation where we do not want to go through the process. If those questions were always at the end of the template—rounding up the first stage—we would keep in mind the possibility of excluding options as well as of progressing others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C190579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 190579,
      "EditedText": "With regard to the education bill, if the unit is not up and running, will we have the equality assessment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny of Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 4565,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ID": 4565,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 190580,
      "EditedText": "I will find out. Staff from the unit are working and they may be producing an assessment even though the unit has not been headed up. I do not think that the bill would be published without an equality assessment"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 190585,
      "EditedText": "The final item on the agenda is correspondence. Does anyone have any comments on the correspondence or on what we should do with it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 190586,
      "EditedText": "Is correspondence that is sent to the committee dealt with by the committee, or is it dealt with by us individually?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 190591,
      "EditedText": "Am I correct in thinking that we could lodge another amendment to the proposed amendments to the building regulations, in order to guarantee that all new houses are barrier free?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 190598,
      "EditedText": "Building regulations are quite technical, so that organisation could provide technical input."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 190602,
      "EditedText": "We should ask Margaret Curran whether she wants a joint briefing. Rather than say, \"We are having a briefing. Do you want to join in?\" we should say, \"Will we have a briefing together?\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 190603,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I will contact her and ask her whether she wants a joint briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 190604,
      "EditedText": "When you referred to the incapable adults bill, I wondered how wide our remit was. I recently became aware of the British Deaf Association; I gave a talk to it last Saturday in Inverness. You may think that speaking to the deaf is a contradiction in terms, but it was one of the most revealing undertakings that I have been involved in for quite a while. Like many people, I thought that when we provided a hearing loop system we were doing a magnificent thing, but that is not the case. The hearing loop system is of use only to people who have a hearing aid.The profoundly deaf told me that there is no legislation to support them. I do not need to tell anyone here of the problems that the deaf daily encounter with things that we take for granted. They are anxious to have an opportunity to make a case to this committee; I think that consideration of the incapable adults bill might be an opportunity to discuss with them how we can make progress in supporting them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 190607,
      "EditedText": "Then we could decide whether we want to meet him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 190608,
      "EditedText": "I will get more information, pass it round the committee and then we can decide whether we want to meet him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 190610,
      "EditedText": "I think that everyone was invited."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 190612,
      "EditedText": "Jackie Baillie passed this invitation to us. It is open to any committee member to go. If members who wish to attend the meeting give their names to Martin, they can get a copy of the invitation. We will make sure that the committee is represented."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 190621,
      "EditedText": "The Commission for Racial Equality has invited members of this committee to attend a meeting of the joint equalities group after our meeting on 17 November. I will get Martin to send members a copy of the invitation. Many organisations will be there, so it would be good if members could attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C190622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 190622,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to raise another point that is not on the agenda but—this may already have been done—has the Scottish Human Rights Centre given the committee a briefing on the implications of the European convention on human rights on the legislation that we have talked about and on equal opportunities? If not, do you think that such a briefing would be worth while?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9632082+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 190546,
      "EditedText": "I was going to suggest that, along with that, we could use the template to work up some sort of system. Because of time limitations, however, perhaps we should ask organisations to comment on the consultation paper. Simultaneously, we should try to establish a system for future legislation. That would allow us to cover both aspects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 190556,
      "EditedText": "We were also considering the establishment of some procedure for scrutinising legislation. I take on board Johann's comments—she is dead right. It is important that any procedure that we implement takes account of the matters that she mentioned, such as the underlying political issues and representations made by organisations. However, I am concerned that, if we do not establish a procedure at an early stage, another piece of legislation will be presented to us and we will again find ourselves having to write to other organisations. To some extent, the committee will not have had a chance to scrutinise legislation to establish whether we are satisfied with it. We need to use the consultation on the education bill as an exercise for establishing a procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 190595,
      "EditedText": "One of the problems with building standards is that they are open to interpretation—different building control officers have different interpretations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 190597,
      "EditedText": "There are organisations that specialise in this. They are not local authority organisations; they are stand-alone organisations. For example, an accessibility organisation based in London specialises in proofing buildings for disabled access. It has extensive experience of the problems that are associated with building control and planning restrictions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4566,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ID": 4566,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 190624,
      "EditedText": "It would be a good briefing—the ECHR keeps cropping up with regard to legislation and I would like to have a better handle on the issue. The SHRC would provide a good starting point for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:03.829927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Macpherson Report",
      "HeadingID": 4562,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 4562,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 190497,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair comment and perhaps the wording needs to reflect it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Reporters Groups",
      "HeadingID": 4563,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 4563,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 190517,
      "EditedText": "I think that some people were confused about first and second preferences. Certainly, when I put my name down, it was for both groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 21 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1031
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-21T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 4564,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ID": 4564,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 190553,
      "EditedText": "Johann hit the nail on the head. Perhaps when the unit is up and running, legislation will already have been equality proofed by the time we get it. The issues that we will take up will be those that other outside organisations have identified as gaps and that are likely to be more contentious. That is where the distinction between the committee and the Scottish Executive may lie, as the committee will listen to a wide range of views. We might have to suck it and see, as the committee is in its early days. As Malcolm pointed out, the education bill is our first major piece of legislation and we might have to test how our process works. Once we are advised of the equality unit's distinctive role, our process should be fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 623041,
      "EditedText": "Do other members have any views on that? Interruption. I have now been informed that notice of such a discussion has to be published in the business bulletin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 623042,
      "EditedText": "I think that Tricia's request is reasonable. Lobbying should be discussed. I was quite cross about the agenda for the previous meeting, which contained the item \"Statement of Convener\" but gave no indication of what the substance of that would be. We cannot have it both ways. We either need a clear agenda, which says explicitly what the items are and what is to be discussed—that is good committee practice—or we allow more flexible contributions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 623047,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has advised me that we should, as Lord James suggested, have core witnesses to give us the benefit of their expertise about the registration—or lack of it—of lobbyists. It is important for us to deal with this issue properly and get it right. Interruption. It has been suggested to me that, to enable the core witnesses to have the proper evidence for us, it would be best to have the discussion at the first meeting after the October recess—the next meeting but one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 623050,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is an excellent suggestion. I reiterate that the article in Holyrood magazine is one of several that I have been pressed on since we started up in May. The issue of lobbying has not entered the public domain because of the article in Holyrood magazine. I have been asked to respond to a number of media inquiries and have made it absolutely plain that I am speaking entirely in a personal capacity. I was asked for my views—that is what I gave. On each occasion, I said that the matter in question had not been discussed at the Standards Committee. It is my view that that did not close off any options. I also believe that it would be valuable to have the debate as suggested by Tricia and Des—that is the way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 623052,
      "EditedText": "That is not parliamentary practice. The minute is an informal document for members' information only and is not published. However, if a member has concerns about accuracy, he or she is most welcome to inform the clerks outside the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 623053,
      "EditedText": "If there is an issue about the accuracy of the minutes, will there be an opportunity to raise the point at the start of each meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 623057,
      "EditedText": "Because of the quasi-legal nature of some of this committee's business, it is important for the minutes to be accurate. We need to establish a procedure so that the committee can resolve disputes where members disagree with the given account of a meeting. It might be better to deal with the matter before it becomes inflamed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 623060,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 623061,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is the availability of committee drafts. After our previous meeting, representations were made to me that it was difficult for the press and the public to follow our discussions. I therefore thought it appropriate to make this the first item on the agenda. The committee has been asked to provide observers in the room—members of the press and the public—with drafts of the papers that are to be discussed, which will be retrieved at the close of the meeting. People who attend the meeting will therefore have a better insight into our discussions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 623071,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any other thoughts? Are we happy to give out details of the committee's business to the press and public and not to retrieve the papers at the end of the meeting?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 623073,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 on the agenda is on the regulation of cross-party groups. I hope that everyone has had a chance to read the papers in detail. As a result of answers to written questions to Sir David Steel lodged by Richard Lochhead, it was agreed that we would move as quickly as possible to put into a place a scheme for the regulation of cross-party groups. Before we go through the action points, are there any general comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 623078,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful to go through the draft and highlight some of the issues. We do not have to make a final decision today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 623080,
      "EditedText": "This point relates to a later paragraph, but the change that I will propose to it affects the introduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 623085,
      "EditedText": "If every party has to be represented, we might have tactical discussions at party group meetings about whether we want a cross-party group established on an issue; it may be counter-productive to stipulate that every party represented in the bureau should have a member on a cross-party group. In addition, some parties are not represented in the bureau and they should not be excluded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 623088,
      "EditedText": "I have concerns about cutting the minimum representation down to two, as that could mean that the group was not cross-party but only a faction within the Parliament. If all the groups represented in the bureau are involved in a cross-party group, the group would deserve the status of being called cross-party. I understand Patricia's concerns about difficulties that may exist in establishing the women's issues group if one party grouping decides not to participate. However, if we cut the number to two, we may not produce proper cross-party groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 623095,
      "EditedText": "Have we covered that issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 623098,
      "EditedText": "As an example, suppose that there was a cross-party committee on disability and that it happened that one of the party groups did not contain anyone who was particularly interested in the issue—I know that that is unlikely, but it could happen. Would that mean that we could not have the cross-party group? That would not be reasonable. We must be satisfied that the groups are genuinely cross-party. Given a stipulation such as the one that we are discussing, with the added caveat that Karen has suggested, it may be possible to deal with such problems on a case-by-case basis.If we are to have genuinely cross-party groups that relate to the Parliament and are not simply vehicles for interests, we require a stronger role for MSPs in the operation of the groups than is implied by the Westminster model. That concerns a number of points but, in the context of paragraph 2, I question whether we should have corporate members of cross-party groups. I do not think that that is appropriate and I would like to dispense with that part of the paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 623099,
      "EditedText": "I see a lot of nodding in agreement. Shall we strike out \"corporate members\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 623101,
      "EditedText": "I was going suggest at a later stage—although it seems appropriate to deal with it now—that we use the term \"representative groups\". That would cover organisations that are representative of interests that are germane to the activities of the cross-party group—Children in Scotland with regard to a group on children, for example. Individuals could be members of the group in a personal capacity or as representatives of a relevant group. I was concerned about the idea of corporate members, which I do not think any of us would support."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 623103,
      "EditedText": "So it would finish:\"The group may contain members from outwith the Parliament.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 623106,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean the majority?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 623108,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate to talk about the convener of the group being an MSP?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 623109,
      "EditedText": "We will get down to that later. At this stage, I am anxious to establish the principle that the group should be genuinely cross-party. Relevant outside interests—but not corporate interests—could be represented on it and others could be there as individuals. Accountability would be ensured through the MSPs who were members of the group. They would have to accept that responsibility. Those are the important dimensions to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 623111,
      "EditedText": "That goes back to the point that I raised earlier. There is a demand from parliamentarians for cross-party groups to be set up on a number of issues. Presumably such groups will exist, so we must take account of the issue that I raised, on which Tricia has come in.The groups must have a distinct purpose and must be linked to the parliamentary process. They must have an accountability mechanism, which will be achieved through MSPs.If we can deal with those concerns, we will cut out many of the problems experienced at Westminster and have, at Holyrood, a system that is more genuinely responsive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 623112,
      "EditedText": "I understand the point that Mr McNulty is making but I do not think that the problem necessarily exists. A cross-party group is about crossing party divides and getting people to sit down to talk to one another in a way that they perhaps could not do in the Parliament, where things tend to be split along party group lines. It is not always easy for people to discuss their common interests and concerns. There might be cross-party consensus on an issue even though people might not always agree on what policy should be brought forward.Other organisations do not have the involvement of MSPs—they are interested in specific issues.MSPs must be clear about the purpose of cross-party groups. It is up to us not to go down the Westminster route and it is important that we have a code of conduct and a set of rules for groups. It is for us to establish how those groups operate and their ethos—although no set of rules will be able to do that.I have spoken to a number of people from other parties who do not necessarily want to go the Westminster way, but who want a means by which MSPs of different parties can come together to discuss issues of common concern, which might not fit in with work of a parliamentary committee.Community education is an issue that obviously crosses the remit of two or three committees, but there is a view that people should get together to discuss on an all-party basis how it can be taken forward. That is not necessarily a policy issue; it is about a willingness to discuss the matter. This is about us and how we take things forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 623114,
      "EditedText": "We have had a valuable discussion on the general purpose of the rules and regulations covering all-party groups. I want to come now to the draft rules. Is everyone happy with paragraph 1?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 623117,
      "EditedText": "I know that it is mentioned later, but perhaps it should be made clearer from the beginning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 623134,
      "EditedText": "A subscription would be just for communication costs, for example, for stationery for those who do not use electronic mail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 623135,
      "EditedText": "Should not we include a line to that effect? I know that paragraph 6 already states that\"the cost to all members must be the same and must be reasonable.\"Should not we say also that the subscription is to cover stationery and telephone costs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 623137,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 623139,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 623146,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 623147,
      "EditedText": "I find Des's suggestion sensible, but I fear that in practice it would not work. My concern is about free postage. It could spiral out of control anyway, even before all-party groups used the facility. We can express an opinion on this. It is acceptable for me to phone or e-mail an MSP, but not for me to put out a mailing to 25,000 people on behalf of a group. Perhaps this should be examined urgently by the bureau, Des. Although it is about how cross-party groups function, it is also about the good use of public resources. I would not want this committee or any all-party group to be accused of misusing public resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 623149,
      "EditedText": "I will pass on the views of the committee.We will move on to paragraph 7."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 623150,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 7 contains the first mention of registered members. Should not a register of members be mentioned under paragraph 1?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 623155,
      "EditedText": "Any suggestions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 623162,
      "EditedText": "The problem might be solved by tightening up the wording. Registered members of groups should have the same status as that of any other visitors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 623164,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 12?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 623167,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to the registration of cross-party groups in the Scottish Parliament. Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 623168,
      "EditedText": "Do we want to leave it absolutely open, and say that any group can qualify, as long as it has two members—or four or whatever—who decide that they will have an all-party group? Do we want to say what we think the purpose of an all-party group is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 623173,
      "EditedText": "Will the subscription and what it will be used for be put on the form?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 623174,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We should go through the paragraphs under the heading of \"Registration of Cross-Party Groups in the Scottish Parliament\". Are there any comments on the first paragraph?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 623175,
      "EditedText": "If members are to apply to register groups, the paragraph will need to be reworded. Because of the way in which it is written at the moment, a group can just establish itself and notify the standards clerk. There will have to be an extra step in the mechanism, whereby groups apply for recognition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 623178,
      "EditedText": "Will it be necessary to mention the groups that have already started up, so that they are not excluded just because of the form of words that we have used?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 623189,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 623191,
      "EditedText": "I move on to: \"The Standards clerk will enter the details\". Again there will be an issue about application for registration, which is probably what we will have. The paragraph might have to be rewritten to take that into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 623193,
      "EditedText": "The document goes on to say that the register can be publicly inspected and will be available on the website. Our job will be to monitor the register and comply with its requirements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 623196,
      "EditedText": "People register with us; that is the way it is. Then we monitor the compliance. So there are two stages."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 623198,
      "EditedText": "We might have a list of 10 or 15 applications. In general, they would just be nodded through. You would tell us whether you felt that they complied and we could raise any questions at that point. However, I do not think that we would go case by case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 623208,
      "EditedText": "Before we do that, I want to ask about the \"NB\" in the previous section. Is not that point more generally covered by the code of conduct? I find it hard to see what it refers to. Perhaps Lord James can quote us case law from Westminster to explain it, but I am unclear as to what is behind it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 623210,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 623211,
      "EditedText": "It is just a reminder—beware."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 623220,
      "EditedText": "I reiterate my suggestion that it would be helpful to include a reminder to members that when they take part in cross-party groups, they continue to operate under the general code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 623223,
      "EditedText": "Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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    },
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 623225,
      "EditedText": "That will be on the agenda for our next meeting—it will be busy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 623226,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 concerns the draft code of conduct. At our previous meeting, the committee agreed to consider again—at this meeting—the draft introduction and key principles of the code of conduct. The text agreed at our previous meeting is indicated on the draft in bold. The text proposed by the clerks for consideration, reflecting members' views, is underlined. Points that the committee agreed to flag up for further consideration are in brackets. Even after this meeting, we may amend the document. The committee is invited to consider the draft introduction and key principles of the code of conduct and to agree a text.We can see the changes on the first page of the introduction. We will go through the paragraphs where changes have been identified and ignore those where there are no changes.I assume that everybody is happy with the first paragraph.In the second paragraph, we decided to leave in the words about \"integrity\", that\"it is a principle which must underpin all that Members do.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 623229,
      "EditedText": "I can just see tomorrow's headlines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 623235,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 623236,
      "EditedText": "My only other point relates to the third paragraph on the second page. We should insert the word \"best\" into the paragraph that reads:\"The Parliament is determined to be at the forefront in developing practice on standards matters\".That would make it clear that we are talking about best practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 623238,
      "EditedText": "The advice that we were given last time was that the code is an interim document. It will not stand for ever and a day. There will be an opportunity to remove such references when the code is revised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 623244,
      "EditedText": "My party would be against dropping the oath of allegiance or affirmation. The paragraph stresses the choice of affirmation, so there is religious tolerance. Such a gesture is viewed as an act of loyalty to the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 623246,
      "EditedText": "Having read the paragraph, and having spoken to people about it, I understand that it is a statement of fact. It is not a matter for discussion. By taking the oath of allegiance or by making the affirmation, a person becomes a member. If that is something that we do to become members of Parliament, why should it not be in the code of conduct for members? If we pick and choose which bits of the code of conduct we put out for consultation, that will set a dangerous precedent. There are many issues in the code of conduct on which we could, if we put them out for consultation, receive a wide range of views across the parties. As I understand it, this is a statement of fact, based on our membership of this Parliament, and I have no qualms about saying that it should be in the code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 623253,
      "EditedText": "I can say that the Liberal Democrats have not discussed it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 623258,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is right. We are now in the process of considering the issue and Des is suggesting that we reconsider the wording of the paragraphs. The clerk and I discussed that before the meeting, and we might suggest a change if the committee is willing to examine the wording. How would members feel if we changed it to something like: \"Members have a duty to uphold the law and act in accordance with their oath of allegiance and affirmation made in Parliament, and with the public trust placed within them\"? That would combine both elements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 623259,
      "EditedText": "My view is that we should leave the second paragraph, because it is a statement of fact. However, if we consider the first paragraph, we could say something along the lines of: \"Members have a duty to uphold the law and act in conformity with the requirements of the procedures of the Scottish Parliament. Their primary duty is to act in the interests of the Scottish Parliament as a whole and the public that it serves\". I am not sure that I particularly want to make those final changes here. Looking at some of the other issues involved, I do not think that we are going to come to a conclusion for every dot and comma today. However, in principle we should be deciding that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 623260,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we can come back to the first paragraph at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 623261,
      "EditedText": "I would like to suggest a different emphasis for the first paragraph. I would prefer the words\"and a duty to act in the interests of the Scottish Parliament as a whole and the public it serves\"to read: \"and a duty to act in the interests of the Scottish people and their Parliament\". That wording would help to emphasise the different approach we have in Scotland. Our notion of popular sovereignty is that the people—not the Parliament—are the sovereign body. I would like it to be emphasised in the first key principle on public duty that our responsibility is to the people first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 623267,
      "EditedText": "Please let me finish. The first paragraph begins:\"Members have a duty to uphold the law\".Why are we repeating, in the second paragraph, something that we have already undertaken to do?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 623271,
      "EditedText": "With the best will in the world, we are not going to reach consensus on this, even if we sit here for the next three weeks and debate whether this paragraph should be included. I understood that we had decided to deal with it now. If necessary, we should have a vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 623273,
      "EditedText": "We are not necessarily accepting the words that Adam suggested for the first paragraph. I think that we should look again at the first paragraph, but accept the second paragraph. That gives Adam the opportunity to make his case, if he wants to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 623279,
      "EditedText": "I would like to disagree as well. It is a fundamental mistake to include that paragraph in the code of conduct."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623280",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 623280,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to \"Duty to Electors\". Please examine the first paragraph at the bottom of the page."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623281",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 623281,
      "EditedText": "The change that we made to the first line has been picked up. \"Duty to Electors\" now needs to be changed, as we said that we have a duty to all members of the public in our constituencies—those who are too young to vote and those who are in institutions where they are unable to vote."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623283",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 623283,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps it should read \"duty to the public\"."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623286",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 623286,
      "EditedText": "Are you suggesting that we replace that second sentence?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623289",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    },
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 623289,
      "EditedText": "I want to highlight the word \"accessible\". I would like an explanation of what we mean by it. We are accessible by phone and by letter, but those of us who are list MSPs have one office between three or four of us. Our ability to be accessible is in the hands of the corporate body, rather than in our hands."
    },
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 623290,
      "EditedText": "Convener, the issue of accessibility covers not only list MSPs, but those MSPs who have large rural constituencies, such as my constituency. I could have quite easily argued for four or five offices, given my constituency's geographical spread. However, that does not mean that I will be any less accessible to the people whom I seek to represent. Accessibility is about making yourself available, by telephone or letter, or by holding public meetings or surgeries. It has a range of implications as different constituencies will have different needs. It is not for this committee to prescribe to members how they make themselves accessible; rather we must ensure that there is an expectation in the code of conduct that members will be accessible."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623293",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 623293,
      "EditedText": "Dedication is another."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623298",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 542.0,
      "ContributionID": 623298,
      "EditedText": "Just remove it, and add—"
    },
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      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 552.0,
      "ContributionID": 623303,
      "EditedText": "We just need to find some other form of words."
    },
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 564.0,
      "ContributionID": 623309,
      "EditedText": "No. What are we doing?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623317",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 623317,
      "EditedText": "The other option is to have the section headed \"Accessibility\". I understand what you are saying, Des, but it would be easier to read if it is split up. \"Accessibility\" would perhaps be a more appropriate heading."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623319",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 623319,
      "EditedText": "Accessibility?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ContributionID": 623326,
      "EditedText": "Will we delete it? That is agreed."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623341",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 629.0,
      "ContributionID": 623341,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other views on that?The first paragraph on the section on accountability is quite open."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623342",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 631.0,
      "ContributionID": 623342,
      "EditedText": "It is suitably open."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623344",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 635.0,
      "ContributionID": 623344,
      "EditedText": "I am quite relaxed about that. We have based our work on the Nolan procedures, which relate to people in governmental or quasi-governmental posts.Decisions are, arguably, made by the Parliament rather than by individual members. Members have a role in the decision-making process, but they do not make decisions individually in the Parliament. We decide how we will vote, but it is the accumulation of votes on which decisions are based."
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 639.0,
      "ContributionID": 623346,
      "EditedText": "That is in the best Liberal Democrat tradition, Mike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "We will do that, then."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623351",
    "Meeting": {
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Is it necessary to remove that sentence? Members think not."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623352",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 651.0,
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      "EditedText": "If the Parliament is to be open and accountable, then it is implicit that we will be scrutinised."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623354",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 655.0,
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623358",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 663.0,
      "ContributionID": 623358,
      "EditedText": "Is the clerking department happy with that section? We have to ask that question as the section puts a lot of responsibility on members of staff."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C623361",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
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      "EditedText": "The section is acceptable. The code explains that while the clerks are willing and happy to give advice, it remains the members' responsibility to ensure that they comply with the code."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623034",
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  {
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      "EditedText": "At our previous meeting, I suggested that we should look again at the agenda. I think that it was my suggestion to bring the matter forward, but the committee decided to deal with everything in its allotted place—that was before you arrived, Tricia. The views expressed in Holyrood magazine are entirely my own. I made that clear."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623038",
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      "EditedText": "I accept that."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623039",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 623039,
      "EditedText": "I was not speaking on behalf of the committee. I am happy to discuss that point, but I am not sure that we can do so today. I can certainly put it on the agenda for next week. I know that one member is missing at the moment, and it would only be right and proper for us all to come prepared for such a debate. Interruption. I have just been informed by the clerk that it is a requirement of standing orders to publish the agenda for a meeting in advance."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623044",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 623044,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we put it on the next agenda, but I would like members to agree that no member of the committee will discuss lobbying outwith the committee until we have had a chance to discuss it."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623045",
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      "ID": 1970,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 623045,
      "EditedText": "It is perhaps unfortunate that some of the views aired publicly have appeared to close off some of the debate that needs to be had. We are all going through a learning process, but we should have a relatively early debate on the issue, which is important for the Parliament. If you are saying, convener, that we will have a debate at the next meeting with appropriate information that can be gathered in time, I would be prepared to accept that."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623046",
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      "ID": 3470
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 623046,
      "EditedText": "I would be grateful if, when this issue is debated fully, we could have evidence about the countries that have had registration of lobbyists—and those that have not—and about how that has worked. That would be useful because it looks as though we will have to come to a key decision on this matter."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623048",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623048,
      "EditedText": "Frankly, I am not happy about that, convener. The matter is in the public domain—you put it there with your article in Holyrood magazine. It seems unfair that we do not have an earlier opportunity for at least an initial discussion. I accept that it is right and proper for us to take evidence before coming to a final conclusion, but I really think that the committee should have an earlier opportunity at least to discuss the issue. I am still pushing for a debate on lobbying to be on the agenda for the next meeting. We can become better informed in the future, but we need to have the initial debate."
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  {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 623049,
      "EditedText": "I will try to be helpful on this matter. Registration is not the only factor. A preliminary discussion about which issues we feel are appropriate to raise might be a useful starting point to this exercise. We could have that at the next meeting and then set a timetable for taking things forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 623051,
      "EditedText": "May I raise two other procedural points about the meeting before we proceed to the full agenda? First, I want the minutes of the previous meeting to be an agenda item to find out whether any issues about accuracy need to be raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 623055,
      "EditedText": "The proceedings are published in the Official Report, of course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 623058,
      "EditedText": "May I take detailed advice on that point? I will get back to you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18719,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 623059,
      "EditedText": "My second procedural point is that, after the previous meeting, information about a draft code of conduct was circulated to me and other committee members with a Friday deadline for comments. I received the draft code on Wednesday afternoon, which is when parliament meets. As Thursday is also a parliamentary meeting day and as Friday was taken up with constituency engagements, it was not possible to deal with that business. May we have a slightly more reasonable time scale for making responses in future?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 623062,
      "EditedText": "Like you, I was concerned to find after the previous meeting that the press had sat through our line-by-line discussion of the code of conduct without any information of their own. It flies in the face of the Parliament's commitment to openness for observers not to be given documents. There is nothing secret about these documents. When we discussed putting the draft code into the public domain, we felt that the whole code should be published. I had understood that committee papers would be available so that people could see what we were discussing. It would be bad practice to keep such documents from the press. Other committees are facing the same problem. Information is not available in the committee room to members of the press and, because they do not see what items are on the agenda, they do not know what is being discussed. The matter needs to be raised with the whole of clerking services, not just with the clerks on this committee.I see no reason to retrieve the documents at the end of the meeting. It makes us look silly to allow the press access to papers, only to whip the documents out of their hands as they walk out the door."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 623063,
      "EditedText": "I suggested retrieving the documents only because the committee agreed on 1 September not to hand out half-baked drafts. At the previous meeting, we agreed a number of changes to the draft code—Des has said that he wanted some time to think about additions to the text. The danger is that the press and public might assume that the information was coming from the committee when it was not. That is why I am suggesting that the press and public be provided with papers, which would also enhance the openness of the meeting. However, it is up to the committee if it changes its mind and wants the papers back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 623065,
      "EditedText": "I think that there is a confusion about the papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 623066,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry if I misled you, Ms Marwick. Two sorts of papers go out with an agenda to committee members. The papers in the first set, which is available to the public, are listed on the agenda. The second set consists of private briefing papers, which are for members' eyes only. That is made clear in the letter that also goes out to members. In my reply to your question, I meant that only the papers that are listed on the agenda are publicly available; anything else is not. I am sorry if that was not clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 623067,
      "EditedText": "I tend to agree with Tricia. If the press sit through a whole meeting with the papers in front of them, it serves no great purpose to remove those papers at the end. It would be helpful if they could retain the papers to check the accuracy of their reporting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 623068,
      "EditedText": "We can all learn from experience. A close look at the proceedings of the previous meeting shows that what was agreed was unhelpful to the press and public, which is the last thing that we want to be. However, although I agree with Tricia, I think that we should clearly identify the status of the papers so that they are not reported as being what they are not. Any confusion after that will not be of our making."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 623069,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point. The clerk has made sure that the papers to be given to the press have \"Draft\" stamped at the top of them to make it clear that their contents have not been agreed by the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 623070,
      "EditedText": "Can we also make it clear that some of our business, particularly on the code of conduct, is a working process and will not be dealt with in one meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 623074,
      "EditedText": "Many of the regulations appear to be derived from the Westminster model and from Westminster practice. Westminster attracts to itself a notion of its own centrality and salience, and there are all kinds of all-party groups that provide ways in which people can exercise influence within a setting where the Parliament itself is relatively inaccessible. If our Scottish Parliament is going to be different, we must be careful about the bases on which we establish all-party groups. We do not want them to be a mechanism for any particular external or externally led group to have what might be seen to be privileged access to the institution of Parliament. I would prefer a narrower definition of cross-party groups—one that is focused on MSPs—rather than the Westminster model of a mechanism for interest groups to pursue their agendas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 623075,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other general comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 623076,
      "EditedText": "I support what Des said. These groups can have considerable influence, but that influence will be disproportionate if they are merely external groups with minimal MSP involvement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 623077,
      "EditedText": "There is a draft before us. Do we want to go through it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 623079,
      "EditedText": "We can return for refinements later. We will press on and examine this draft paragraph by paragraph. Perhaps we can take the first three paragraphs—the introduction—together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 623081,
      "EditedText": "What are you suggesting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 623084,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful to stipulate a minimum number of party groupings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 623087,
      "EditedText": "Patricia and Adam have made a good point. If it is stipulated that there must be members from all the parliamentary groups that are represented on the Parliamentary Bureau, one party could decide not to take part in a cross-party group, which would mean that the group could not be set up. A way round the problem may be to stipulate that there should be membership from at least two of the groups represented in the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 623089,
      "EditedText": "The danger is that two parties representing the Executive—or two parties from the Opposition—could form a so-called cross-party group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 623090,
      "EditedText": "We should leave the paragraph as it is. In special circumstances, an appropriate group could be registered as cross-party by this committee or the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 623092,
      "EditedText": "Would it be the Presiding Officer or this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 623093,
      "EditedText": "I have been informed that it would be this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 623094,
      "EditedText": "If there is to be a process of registration for cross-party groups, it will fall to this committee to construct, maintain and monitor that register."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 623100,
      "EditedText": "I do not necessarily disagree, but I have concerns. For example, organisations such as the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Children in Scotland could be excluded from membership of an all-party group on children. I do not accept that those organisations are just interest groups such as the ones that Des is talking about. They have a genuine role to play in consultation and development, and I would be concerned if those types of organisations were excluded from membership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 623102,
      "EditedText": "If we take out the final sentence of paragraph 2, all our problems are solved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 623104,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 623116,
      "EditedText": "It is mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 623119,
      "EditedText": "It would be more appropriate if at least two of the officers had to be members of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 623121,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and one of them should be the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 623122,
      "EditedText": "What does the rest of the committee think?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 623123,
      "EditedText": "We agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 623124,
      "EditedText": "That would establish the fact that the group was owned by the MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 623125,
      "EditedText": "It also meets the need for accountability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 623126,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone happy with paragraph 4?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 623127,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 623128,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 5?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 623129,
      "EditedText": "We have raised the issue of the need for someone to take responsibility for compliance. Should that be the convener, or are all members of the group collectively responsible for compliance? We might be unable to decide that today, as it might be worth speaking to some of the all-party groups about how they would prefer to deal with compliance. Should MSPs take responsibility for it? There is ambiguity in the way in which the document is written at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623131",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 623131,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. We shall leave paragraph 5 for now. Are there any comments on paragraph 6?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 623132,
      "EditedText": "I am uncomfortable with paragraphs 6 and 7, which talk about subscriptions for joining cross-party groups. What would the subscription cover?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623138",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 623138,
      "EditedText": "No?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 623143,
      "EditedText": "Adam's point is well made. We have already had e-mails from a number of MSPs asking whether we would like to join the cross-party Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament group, the animals group or the film group. Paragraph 11 suggests that the IT system cannot be used even for that. I cannot even pick up a telephone and call Karen and ask her whether she fancies joining a cross-party group on disability. Surely that strikes at the heart of what the cross-party group, as articulated by Karen, should be. It is about the ability of MSPs from all parties to sit down together and discuss common interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623144",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 623144,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the drafting is the wrong way round. On the one hand we are saying that cross-party groups must notify their meetings on the web. On the other, we are saying that they cannot use the IT. That is absurd. Perhaps we should say that cross-party groups should pay if they use parliamentary facilities that bear a cost. For example, if they are sending external mail from the Parliament, they should pay for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623153",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 623153,
      "EditedText": "The requirements include the registration of all members.Paragraph 8 begins:\"Cross-Party Group meetings must be held in public.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623157",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 623157,
      "EditedText": "Notice should be given a week before meetings."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623160",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 623160,
      "EditedText": "It addresses the points that we made earlier on.Paragraph 10?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623163",
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    },
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      "HeadingID": 18721,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 623163,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 11?Members indicated agreement."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623169",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 623169,
      "EditedText": "That is defined in the first rule on cross-party groups:\"its purpose must be Parliamentary in character.\""
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623172",
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 623172,
      "EditedText": "If members apply to establish all-party groups, and we are unhappy about the group, we could ask questions about it. That might be a way of sorting out the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 623177,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 623179,
      "EditedText": "Excluded because the paragraph says that groups must register within 30 days of their first meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 623180,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It would be a question of simply adding on a sentence at the end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 623182,
      "EditedText": "The second paragraph mentions the requirement to notify the clerk of changes. I am not sure of the meaning of\"negative as well as positive changes, for example, when a member leaves a group.\"Do we really want the clerk to be notified when any individual leaves a group; or do we want them to be notified only when an MSP leaves a group?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 623183,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point. The paragraph should be clarified; it should refer only to MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 623186,
      "EditedText": "That is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 623188,
      "EditedText": "Karen raised the issue of whether we are talking about individual responsibility or collective responsibility for compliance. The wording suggests that it is individual responsibility and Karen suggested that it should be collective responsibility for MSPs who are members of a particular group to ensure compliance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 623192,
      "EditedText": "There needs to be only a wee bit of tweaking to put the wording in line with the intentions that we have mapped out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 623194,
      "EditedText": "We do more than monitor registration; we control it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 623200,
      "EditedText": "The next paragraph, on advice, states that\"responsibility for compliance with the registration requirements rests with the group, in particular, the MSP nominated by the group for ensuring compliance.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 623202,
      "EditedText": "That is wider than the individual, is it not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 623203,
      "EditedText": "Could it say \"the secretary\"? It would be an awful nuisance if every member of the group had to go to the Standards Committee clerk every time there was a change of membership, with one member joining or leaving."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 623204,
      "EditedText": "Unless the office bearers did it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 623206,
      "EditedText": "I think that we all agreed on collective responsibility, but a code of guidance should say how that is to be exercised. I assume that it is part of the requirements on the group for registration that people are authorised to deal with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 623216,
      "EditedText": "I have a query about the phrase \"could also lead to penalties being imposed on a Member by the Parliament.\"in the final paragraph. What happened to the collective responsibility of all MSPs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 623217,
      "EditedText": "One way of dealing with that would be to say that failure to comply with the rules on cross-party groups was equivalent to failure to comply with the general code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 623218,
      "EditedText": "What I meant by collective responsibility was that all members were responsible, and that if a member saw something going wrong, it was their duty either to do something about it or to bring it to the attention of this committee. I would be concerned if a member who brought such a matter to our attention was penalised along with everyone else involved.It is just a matter of wording. If something goes wrong on a committee and no one tells anybody about it or does anything to change things, all are liable, but people should not be penalised for bringing problems to our attention. That goes against everything that we are trying to do on promoting whistleblowing in the workplace. I am not particularly concerned about this, but I think that collective responsibility means that if a person sees something going wrong, it is up to them to get it sorted out. If other members refuse to do that, it is for this committee or the Parliament to take action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 623227,
      "EditedText": "That principle, which forms the second clause of that sentence, is repeated in the third paragraph:\"Members must meet those expectations by ensuring that their conduct is above reproach and worthy of the trust of the electorate.\"We might have engaged in a wee bit of overkill in the document. In the interest of neatness, I would take out that sub-clause."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 623228,
      "EditedText": "Are we taking out the bit that refers to the principle of integrity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 623231,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that we should do that? We are agreed.After the sentence:\"The Code explains into which category the rules set out there fall.\"an item in brackets at the bottom of the page states: \"Committee may consider a reference to advice in the Code\".There was a difference of opinion last time as to whether advice should be there. Are we agreed that we shall include the reference? We are agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 623232,
      "EditedText": "There is more repetition. The first sentence of the last paragraph of the introduction reads:\"The Code of Conduct underpins the approach that Members are required to take in carrying out their duties.\"There is a weaker version of the same sentence in the last paragraph on the first page:\"The Code which follows is intended to set out how the Members of the Parliament will carry out their responsibilities.\"I wonder whether we should include only the stronger version."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 623233,
      "EditedText": "We could replace the wording on the first page with the first line of the last paragraph of the introduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 623239,
      "EditedText": "At this stage, it would be useful to retain the reference to the consultative steering group as, for many people in Scotland, it underpinned what the Parliament was about—consensus, cross-party working and discussion of business with the public. If we took that reference out, at this early stage, it would look a wee bit bad. I know what Tricia is saying, but the consultative steering group set an agenda or standard for the Parliament, and I think that we should keep the reference to it. However, I understand that, in the longer term, we might want to take that reference out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 623241,
      "EditedText": "We proceed to the paragraph entitled, \"Public Duty\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 623242,
      "EditedText": "That might require a fairly lengthy discussion. As there are implications for members other than ourselves, I wonder whether it would be worth asking other members of the Parliament for their views. We might get a good cross-section of views. It is quite important whether that paragraph is left in or taken out, and opinion should be sought outside the Standards Committee. I suggest that we agree the rest of the code of conduct today, then return to that paragraph for a discussion on whether we should put the key principles out for consultation with MSPs and allow them to feed back to the committee before we proceed further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 623247,
      "EditedText": "I shall try to crystallise the argument. The debate is not yet on the substance of the issue, but on whether we deal with it now—and at our previous meeting we agreed to delay dealing with it—or whether, as Tricia suggests, we should delay dealing with it. There are two further questions: should we delay discussion until a future meeting, or should we send the issue out for consultation? We need to address those two questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 623250,
      "EditedText": "The reason that I was asked about that particular section was because it appeared in the newspapers, following our meeting. That is why it became an issue for discussion. Other sections of the code of conduct were not picked up on by the newspapers and did not become issues discussed by other members.It sets a dangerous precedent and, as I have said before, I think that we need to take a decision and move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 623252,
      "EditedText": "I tend to agree with Tricia. We certainly have not discussed the matter with SNP members, although it appears that other members of the committee have discussed it within their parties. Neither Tricia nor I have discussed it with our party, so we appear to be at a slight disadvantage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 623263,
      "EditedText": "Again, I would prefer not to finalise that until we have had a chance to see it on paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 623264,
      "EditedText": "Remember that we will return to the whole document at the end of the exercise. The proposed text is not set in stone and this is not a final statement. I remind the press and public of that as well. If we changed the first paragraph as Adam suggested, we would keep the second one as it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 623268,
      "EditedText": "Adam is trying to use the code of conduct to establish his view of the constitutional position. Although he may want the code of conduct to operate as he would wish it to, it does not necessarily do that. He is not being entirely in line with something that would operate on behalf of the whole Parliament, but our responsibility is to arrive at a code of conduct that recognises the existing position and is acceptable across the board. We are not having a debate about constitutional structures; we are trying to establish a code of conduct that deals with public duty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 623269,
      "EditedText": "No, I regard—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 623270,
      "EditedText": "Hang on a minute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 623274,
      "EditedText": "If we are looking at the first paragraph again, we should look at the totality of the key principle. We cannot have one law for the first paragraph and another for the second."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 623277,
      "EditedText": "My argument with the second paragraph is that I do not think that it has any place in a code of conduct that regulates how MSPs act in carrying out their duties. If a majority of the committee agrees today that the paragraph should remain, I want to flag up my disagreement with that decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 623278,
      "EditedText": "Tricia, it is your right to do that and your disagreement will be minuted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 623282,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it should read \"people\" rather than \"electors\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 623295,
      "EditedText": "May I suggest \"conscientiously\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 623296,
      "EditedText": "I think that \"accessible\" is an important word, as it appears throughout the CSG report. There is a certain expectation that we are accessible.I have just questioned the clerk again about the paragraph heading, \"Duty to Electors\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 623297,
      "EditedText": "Should we not just take that out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 548.0,
      "ContributionID": 623301,
      "EditedText": "\"Duty to Electors\" was struck off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 550.0,
      "ContributionID": 623302,
      "EditedText": "I thought that it had been taken out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 556.0,
      "ContributionID": 623305,
      "EditedText": "Lord James, did you suggest a different word in the part \"and to represent their interests faithfully\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 560.0,
      "ContributionID": 623307,
      "EditedText": "Shall we delete that last sentence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 566.0,
      "ContributionID": 623310,
      "EditedText": "That is what Adam was suggesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 570.0,
      "ContributionID": 623312,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, the section would now read: \"Members have a duty to be accessible to the people of the areas for which they have been elected to serve, and to represent their interests conscientiously.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 572.0,
      "ContributionID": 623313,
      "EditedText": "Are we happy about that?Let us now move on to the paragraph headed \"Selflessness\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 576.0,
      "ContributionID": 623315,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we are taking out the \"Duty to Electors\" heading and amalgamating the paragraphs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 578.0,
      "ContributionID": 623316,
      "EditedText": "One of the things that I said at the previous meeting and which, having considered it again, I want to repeat, is that we have ended up taking the Nolan headings, and it is often very difficult to separate what is distinct about selflessness, integrity and honesty. The compartmentalisation is difficult. We may want to take headings out generally and make the code of conduct a non-headed text."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 623321,
      "EditedText": "This may be a linguistic issue. We talk about duties on page 4, and then, when we have selflessness, integrity and honesty on the next page, there is nothing about duties. There is perhaps an argument for being consistent: talking about duties right the way through. There could be a sentence such as, \"Members have a duty to take decisions solely in terms of the public interest.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 623322,
      "EditedText": "So we should include that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ContributionID": 623323,
      "EditedText": "It could be done that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 600.0,
      "ContributionID": 623327,
      "EditedText": "Does the same point apply in the third paragraph? If a member is given information in confidence, they should respect that confidence under almost all circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 602.0,
      "ContributionID": 623328,
      "EditedText": "On my first reading, I would have been happy that the first sentence was sufficient, but perhaps there needs to be a mention of confidentiality there. The wording in the last paragraph is a little clumsy. Perhaps a tighter form of words could be used on confidentiality for individuals, which does not compromise members, for example, in criminal cases. If somebody tells me that they had committed a murder, I would not be able to keep that confidential, but if they tell me about a personal problem, confidentiality is an issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 612.0,
      "ContributionID": 623333,
      "EditedText": "I think that there is a reference to that somewhere else in the paper, I cannot remember exactly where."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 614.0,
      "ContributionID": 623334,
      "EditedText": "Can we come back to that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 616.0,
      "ContributionID": 623335,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we should, to tie that up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 619.0,
      "ContributionID": 623336,
      "EditedText": "The decision at the last meeting was to move the paragraph under the heading of \"Responsibility for Decisions\" and to amalgamate it with the section on \"Accountability\", which now says:\"Members are responsible for the decisions that they take. They will consider issues on their merits, taking account of the views of others.Members are accountable for their decisions and actions to the Scottish people. They will submit themselves to appropriate scrutiny.\"There are a couple of issues here. We may wish to expand or change the first paragraph. What do members think?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 623.0,
      "ContributionID": 623338,
      "EditedText": "Those are different issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 627.0,
      "ContributionID": 623340,
      "EditedText": "There is an issue about decisions in the section on openness. Openness should be about actions and accountability should be about decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 643.0,
      "ContributionID": 623348,
      "EditedText": "There is some duplication of sentiments in those two sections. They are two different subjects, but the code of conduct would read much better if they were together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 647.0,
      "ContributionID": 623350,
      "EditedText": "It is not exactly clear what \"appropriate scrutiny\" means. It might mean an appearance in court in the box for the accused, or an appearance before a tribunal. I am slightly uneasy because it is subject to misinterpretation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 653.0,
      "ContributionID": 623353,
      "EditedText": "Is that the case even if we must wait four years for scrutiny?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 657.0,
      "ContributionID": 623355,
      "EditedText": "The next heading is \"Leadership.\"\"Members will promote and support these principles by leadership and example, to maintain and strengthen the public's trust and confidence in the integrity of the Parliament and its members in conducting public business.\"Are members agreed? There is agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 661.0,
      "ContributionID": 623357,
      "EditedText": "There is still the last bit about \"Guidance on the Code of Conduct\" to deal with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 665.0,
      "ContributionID": 623359,
      "EditedText": "That is unfortunately part of the job."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 667.0,
      "ContributionID": 623360,
      "EditedText": "I just wanted to clarify that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623365",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:21."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 623033,
      "EditedText": "We will now press on—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 623035,
      "EditedText": "Certainly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 623036,
      "EditedText": "I note that item 3 on our agenda is a discussion on the draft code of conduct. I also note, convener, that you did an article about lobbying for Holyrood magazine. Given that, and given your statement at the Standards Committee meeting on 1 September, I think that it would be worthwhile if this committee were given the opportunity to debate today the chapter of the code on lobbying. We as a committee, rather than as individuals, would then have a view on it. Now that the matter is in the public domain, it seems to be running away—from this committee in particular. It is only right and proper that we deal with the chapter on lobbying at the earliest opportunity—today—and that the committee has an opportunity to express its view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 623040,
      "EditedText": "But surely it is appropriate, as is the case with every other committee that I have been on, to accept for the agenda something that the committee wishes to discuss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18719,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 623043,
      "EditedText": "I entirely agree. It was unfortunate that I wanted to raise the issue as an agenda item; it was decided that I should present it as a brief statement. The issue was opened for discussion, which had ended by the time Tricia arrived. The advice that I have received is that such a discussion would have to be an item on the agenda. I am happy to take it at the next available meeting, if that is what members want."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 623054,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that that can be put on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18719,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 623056,
      "EditedText": "Yes, there are two accounts of a committee's proceedings: the Official Report and the copy of the minutes that goes to each committee member."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 623064,
      "EditedText": "I have gone back through the Official Report and have found that, in our first exchange about this issue, I asked whether the papers under discussion were available and whether people could access the briefing papers through the internet. When I was told that people had access to the papers listed on the agenda, I said that those papers were, in many ways, in the public domain. That was at the start of the meeting. It was not until I left the committee room that I found out that the papers were not in the public domain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Committee Drafts",
      "HeadingID": 18720,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ID": 18720,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 623072,
      "EditedText": "In that case, can the documents be handed round?Just so that members are clear, what is being handed out now is all the material that has draft before the title. The press and the public do not have the briefing that we received. That remains private, but the draft substance of what we will discuss is now available to the press and the public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 623082,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 2 states that cross-party groups must include a member \"from each of the groups represented in the Parliamentary Bureau.\" That is a good aim, but in practice it may be difficult. I have been involved in setting up a group to examine women's issues. Given the number of women in some of the party groupings, it may be difficult to ensure that all the parties are represented on that group. I would like to amend that paragraph so that it is clear that, although we are striving to include all the parties, we recognise that not all cross-party groups will necessarily include members from each party group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 623083,
      "EditedText": "We could amend it to \"which aims to include\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 623086,
      "EditedText": "I have been advised that those parties are not excluded—they can join cross-party groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 623091,
      "EditedText": "We could add a sentence to the effect that in special circumstances the rule could be waived by the Presiding Officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 623096,
      "EditedText": "I am not happy with that. My point stands. We could get into a situation in which a cross-party group is blocked. I do not think that an appeal to the Presiding Officer is necessarily the right way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 623097,
      "EditedText": "We have just decided that the matter would come back to us. This committee would decide on the special circumstances. If there were a difficulty, this committee would be able to waive the rule. Would that be acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 623105,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but we should somehow state that the balance of the membership should be MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 623107,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to be absolutely hard and fast on that, but I want us to be able to say what happens if it is clear that a cross-party group is predominantly run by outside agencies. I do not want to specify the number of members or say that there can be only five people from outside organisations, but we must have an arrangement whereby the cross-party groups are, in effect, led and run by MSPs. However, I do not want to say that the number of members of the group who are from outside organisations must be lower than the number of MSPs on the group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 623110,
      "EditedText": "Are we starting from the right point in looking at the Westminster model? In Scotland, the civic forum and other organisations are the interested groups, which is not the case at Westminster. One of the reasons why cross-party groups were set up at Westminster was to allow people to influence members on their pet subjects.I am worried that we will have two separate groups running side by side. There would be the cross-party group, which might include people from outside the Parliament, and there would be the legitimate voices of other organisations—such as Children First and others from the children's lobby or those representing people with disabilities—coming together. Are we setting up competing groups?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 623113,
      "EditedText": "It is an obvious point, but there should be a distinction between an all-party group and a lobby. It might be absolutely legitimate and democratic for a lobby of several hundred people to campaign for change—on disability allowances, for example—and to call on members of all-party groups, but when such a group gets beyond a certain size, it is no longer an all-party group. That was recognised at Westminster, and it would be safe to recognise it here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 623115,
      "EditedText": "Each group should be required to define its purpose and its scope of operation. It might not be enough simply to say in paragraph 1 that\"its purpose must be Parliamentary in character.\"That might need to be flagged up at the start."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 623118,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 3, on the election of officers and so on, is where I suggested the need for a convener. It states:\"At least one of the elected officers must be a Member of the Parliament.\"Is everyone happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 623120,
      "EditedText": "Does everyone agree with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 623130,
      "EditedText": "I would assume that compliance was a matter for collective responsibility, rather than something that should be forced on one member, who could then become the scapegoat—for want of a better word—and punishable by the committee or the Parliament. Perhaps we should set the precedent that compliance is an issue for all members. Then nobody is left out to dry, so to speak, if something goes wrong, for example, with an outside body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 623133,
      "EditedText": "Communication costs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 623136,
      "EditedText": "We are returning to the difference between the cross-party groups that we are trying to establish and those in Westminster. The matter also arises in paragraph 11, under which the groups are forbidden to use parliamentary facilities such as photocopying and postage. If the kind of cross-party group that we are talking about is owned by MSPs and aims to improve their communication and their ability to impact on the Parliament, surely we should approach the matter differently. Cross-party groups should be supported by the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 623140,
      "EditedText": "I would not be in favour of Parliament supporting those groups. The budget would quickly quadruple if that were the case. I understand that members hesitate to have a subscription for those groups, but on the other hand there might be circumstances, such as the purchase of stationery or making arrangements, where a subscription is necessary. Is it possible to include in the registration of the group a declaration about the purpose of any financial levy and how much it is likely to be for the next year? Members will register on an annual basis, and that might get us round the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 623141,
      "EditedText": "Usually a subscription was just for the secretary's cost—preparing the minutes and sending out letters for the next meeting—and often it was only about £1 a year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 623142,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the question has been addressed. We are getting confused between the two models."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 623145,
      "EditedText": "I have just been advised that, although we can give an opinion on the use of parliamentary resources, that is a matter for the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 623148,
      "EditedText": "Do we agree that the use of parliamentary resources by cross-party groups be referred to the SPCB? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 623151,
      "EditedText": "I am told that paragraph 4 refers to that. It states:\"The group must comply with the requirements on the registration of Cross-Party Groups\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 623152,
      "EditedText": "Is not the registration of cross-party groups different from registered members of cross-party groups?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 623154,
      "EditedText": "Notice of one sitting day before a cross-party group meeting is perhaps not long enough to allow the public to arrange time off work or child care, in order to attend such a meeting. More notice would be appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 623156,
      "EditedText": "A week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 623158,
      "EditedText": "Meetings should be announced a week before they take place.Paragraph 9?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 623159,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 623161,
      "EditedText": "Is there an issue here? People can use the restaurant as guests of MSPs. On security grounds, apart from anything else, that is the only reason why they should be allowed to do so. We should avoid the implication that registered members of groups have a status other than as guests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 623165,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 13?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 623166,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, we are happy with the rules on cross-party groups in the Scottish Parliament.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 623170,
      "EditedText": "That goes back to my earlier point about our at least giving some direction. Some groups already exist: there is an all-party group on disability and an all-party group on women's issues. Both are fine, and I do not think that anyone has stepped outside the bounds of what is reasonable. However, it is possible to imagine the establishment of all-party groups that were purely mechanisms for lobbying. I would be nervous about such groups, so rather than the rule saying that groups should be parliamentary in purpose, I would prefer it to say that groups should take up particular issues that were widely acceptable. The rule could also make it clear that groups were not to replicate the work of a particular committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 623171,
      "EditedText": "It has just been suggested to me that we could insert a reference to the Standards Committee reserving the right to refuse to recognise a group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 623176,
      "EditedText": "There is nothing to stop four members of the Parliament setting up a group; the question is whether that group is recognised. I could establish a group with three of my pals; it would be a group, but the question is whether it would have any status or recognition in the Parliament. I assume that only when a group applied to be registered would it be recognised and be able to use facilities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 623181,
      "EditedText": "That would be sensible. Shall we move on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 623184,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and not to every individual member."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 623185,
      "EditedText": "The next paragraph begins:\"Any MSP who is an elected officer\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 623187,
      "EditedText": "The next begins:\"The Standards clerk will enter the details\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 623190,
      "EditedText": "We could make it the office bearers on behalf of the MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 623195,
      "EditedText": "Should we say, \"monitor and control\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 623197,
      "EditedText": "Okay. I have just had a question from the clerk. Does the committee intend to look at every application? I assume that that is what we are talking about. Is it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 623199,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 623201,
      "EditedText": "I would widen that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 623205,
      "EditedText": "As long as somebody does, it is fine. That is the point, if I understand it correctly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 623207,
      "EditedText": "Right. Let us move on to compliance with the rules on cross-party groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 623209,
      "EditedText": "Do you have any comments, Lord James?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 623212,
      "EditedText": "We also need to include something about the code of conduct, which deals with the other side of the equation and tells members that registrable interests might arise as a result of involvement in an all-party group. We need to cover this from both sides, so that no one can say that they did not know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 623213,
      "EditedText": "Let us to move on to compliance. The document states:\"An MSP who is an elected officer of the group will be required to sign a declaration within 30 days of a group's first meeting confirming that the group is constituted in compliance with, and will comply with, the rules on the operation of Cross-Party Groups.\"Are we happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 623214,
      "EditedText": "Yes, although it should be part of the registration process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 623215,
      "EditedText": "The next heading is, \"Failure to comply with or contravention of the rules on Cross Party Groups\". We will consider those three paragraphs together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 623219,
      "EditedText": "Can we leave the paragraph as it stands?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 623221,
      "EditedText": "The final heading is, \"Membership of other groups\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 623222,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Cross-Party Groups",
      "HeadingID": 18721,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ID": 18721,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 623224,
      "EditedText": "We have made one or two adjustments of principle, and it might be helpful if we wait until our next meeting, when the issues of principle will have been clarified, before we go through the next set of documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 623230,
      "EditedText": "It would read better if the second and third paragraphs were swapped."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 623234,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That would mean that the last paragraph of the introduction referred only to members' responsibility, which makes it clearer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 623237,
      "EditedText": "I might have raised this last time, but perhaps I imagined it. Does the document have to say that we are drawing heavily on the recommendations of the code of conduct working group of the consultative steering group? Do we want to continue to make references to the CSG and the Nolan committee for ever? We might agree with other bodies' recommendations, but surely the code is ours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 623240,
      "EditedText": "Let us move on to the key principles of the code of conduct. We removed the words: \"They are a means by which Members declare what they stand for.\" New words have been inserted in bold type.Is everyone now happy with that first paragraph?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 623243,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other views?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 623245,
      "EditedText": "The issue is not whether it is an oath of allegiance or an affirmation—we have already discussed that. At the previous meeting, I highlighted the fact that I wondered about its place in the code of conduct; that was the issue. If we are asking MSPs to sign up to this part of the key principles, they should have the opportunity to comment on it before we debate it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 623248,
      "EditedText": "Lord James and Karen both highlighted exactly what I was saying. They have discussed the matter with other members, and other members have views. I do not think that it is unreasonable to ask all members for their views on the key principles that they will be asked to sign up to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 623249,
      "EditedText": "I have been advised that it is unusual to suggest such a consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 623251,
      "EditedText": "The majority view seems to be that we should consider the matter now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 623254,
      "EditedText": "It has been discussed by individual members who liaised as a result of a press article."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 623255,
      "EditedText": "I have not discussed the matter formally with my party, but I know what members' views would be and I hope that I am interpreting those accurately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 623256,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should address the matter now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 623257,
      "EditedText": "I support Karen's view that this is a statement of fact. We have all already done it, and, at one level, we cannot uninvent that. I think that it should stand.Perhaps we can make the issue clearer by considering the content of the first paragraph, which combines a number of issues with which we are able to deal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 623262,
      "EditedText": "The proposal is that the first paragraph should read: \"Members have a duty to uphold the law and to act in accordance with the public trust placed in them; and a duty to act in the interests of the Scottish people and their Parliament.\" Is that acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 623265,
      "EditedText": "I would prefer to delete the second paragraph, primarily for the reasons that we have already discussed. The first—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 623266,
      "EditedText": "We should put it to a vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 623272,
      "EditedText": "I do not wish to push things to votes. My understanding is that the majority view is that the first paragraph should be changed as Adam suggested and the second paragraph should remain the same. Can we move on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 623275,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to ensure that we do not keep going back to items on the agenda. We will review the whole document again once we have amended it. Adam can raise his point again at that stage. We must try to move on. We have a majority view on the second paragraph, and I seek guidance from the committee on the wording of the first paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 623276,
      "EditedText": "As in previous instances when there has been a discussion about particular wording, I suggest that the clerks come back to the next meeting with a slightly revised form of wording for the first paragraph.On the second paragraph, the issue is not about the wording; it is about the principle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 623284,
      "EditedText": "Are you suggesting \"duty to the public\" or \"public duty\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 623285,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we delete the second sentence and insert a sentence that would read: \"Members have a duty to be accessible to the people of the areas for which they have been elected to serve and to represent their interests faithfully\". Would that be reasonable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623287",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 623287,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we delete the second sentence and, at the end of the first sentence, add \"and to represent their interests faithfully\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8127909+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623288",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 623288,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy with that suggestion?"
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    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623291",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 623291,
      "EditedText": "Is there a better word that would set the concept down more carefully?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623292",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 623292,
      "EditedText": "The concept of accessibility comes from the CSG; it is one of the founding principles of the Parliament."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623294",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 623294,
      "EditedText": "\"Accountable\" is a far better word."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623299",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 544.0,
      "ContributionID": 623299,
      "EditedText": "What is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
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    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623300",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "ContributionID": 623300,
      "EditedText": "It is the paragraph heading, Karen."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623304",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 554.0,
      "ContributionID": 623304,
      "EditedText": "I was suggesting that we put that paragraph headed \"Duty to Electors\" under the previous heading of \"Public Duty\"."
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  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623306",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 558.0,
      "ContributionID": 623306,
      "EditedText": "Something like \"conscientiously\" instead of \"faithfully\". If someone is approached by a drug dealer, who has certain requests, they would not want to act for them faithfully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623308",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 562.0,
      "ContributionID": 623308,
      "EditedText": "That whole sentence? Is that what you are saying?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623311",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 568.0,
      "ContributionID": 623311,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we delete the whole of the last sentence and replace it with James's additional amendment to the first sentence."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623314",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 574.0,
      "ContributionID": 623314,
      "EditedText": "So we are actually taking out headings?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623318",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
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      "EditedText": "That is a good point. I understand what Des is getting at, looking at a logical, structured approach. It has just been pointed out to me that, if there is a list of half a dozen words that represent what we stand for, such as selflessness, integrity, honesty and openness, that helps the general public. That is the other side of the coin."
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
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      "EditedText": "Accessibility as a heading, then, rather than the removal of a heading?On the next page of the draft code is the heading, \"Selflessness\"—unchanged—followed by \"Integrity\", \"Honesty\"—"
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 594.0,
      "ContributionID": 623324,
      "EditedText": "It could be worded like that. Have the clerks got that?The next paragraph that we are considering for the changing of text is the one headed \"Openness\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 596.0,
      "ContributionID": 623325,
      "EditedText": "I think that there was a dilemma over the second sentence of the openness section. My first reaction was that the second sentence was implicit in the first. My second doubt was about people who are ill: a patient may not want all their circumstances made known. If information is restricted in relation to a patient, one cannot argue that the wider public interest is involved, but certainly the patient's interest is. Is that second sentence necessary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 604.0,
      "ContributionID": 623329,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should reinstate James's deletion. The second sentence is a statement that we will do our best not to restrict information. We could leave that in and slightly amend the next paragraph to say: \"However, where a member has received information in confidence, or where disclosure of information might breach an individual's privacy, that confidence or privacy will be respected.\"I think that covers all the concerns that members have raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 606.0,
      "ContributionID": 623330,
      "EditedText": "This goes back to a point that I made at the previous meeting, that we are discussing two issues. There is constituency casework and there are decisions that I make in the chamber or in this committee. We should perhaps have two sections. I have no problem with justifying how I vote on an issue to anybody. That is my duty. However, how I deal with an individual constituency case is a matter between the individual constituent and me. I am concerned about constituency cases becoming wrapped up in the issue of openness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 608.0,
      "ContributionID": 623331,
      "EditedText": "There are definitely two themes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ContributionID": 623332,
      "EditedText": "On selflessness, integrity and honesty, the requirement not to take decisions on the basis of financial or material gain is stated. However, some of the local government codes go beyond that and state that you must take all reasonable steps to avoid the inference that you have acted in that way. We should perhaps consider including that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 621.0,
      "ContributionID": 623337,
      "EditedText": "Could not we combine that with the first line from the section on openness? That line is:\"Members will be as open as possible about all the decisions and actions they take.\"We could then combine the ideas of openness and accountability and have a separate section relating to constituents and confidentiality. Is not that possible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 625.0,
      "ContributionID": 623339,
      "EditedText": "That is what I mean. That may not be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C623343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 633.0,
      "ContributionID": 623343,
      "EditedText": "We could put the two together as Karen has suggested, but I understand that Des is opposed to that. They are technically different issues, but they would go neatly together. What does Des feel about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 637.0,
      "ContributionID": 623345,
      "EditedText": "That is one view. We are certainly accountable for the way that we vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 641.0,
      "ContributionID": 623347,
      "EditedText": "How do we proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 659.0,
      "ContributionID": 623356,
      "EditedText": "Yes, agreement and consensus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 671.0,
      "ContributionID": 623362,
      "EditedText": "We are approaching the two-hour mark. If everyone is in agreement, I think that this would be an appropriate place to stop.Do members want to return to the key principles at the next meeting or should we put them aside, progress, and return to them at the end of the process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 673.0,
      "ContributionID": 623363,
      "EditedText": "Can we finish that section at the next meeting? The adjustments appear to be quite minimal. When we come back to the committee, we can deal with the changes and get the section out of the way as soon as we can. Then we can move on. We need to consider only the bits that we have got to change and do not need to go through it all paragraph by paragraph again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3470
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct",
      "HeadingID": 18722,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ID": 18722,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 675.0,
      "ContributionID": 623364,
      "EditedText": "It has just been suggested to me that we set a time limit, but I am not sure that that is appropriate. We just need to have it in our minds that we do not spend an awful lot of time on the matter. We will deal with it quickly at the beginning of the next meeting and move on.Thank you for coming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.8284108+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 603339,
      "EditedText": "I had a useful meeting with John at which we discussed many of the issues. I agree with him that we should take action sooner rather than later. We can make progress on inviting Scottish Homes to an early meeting. Looking back to the decisions that we made on the issue of stock transfer, we must be careful that we do not keep creating new agendas and that we pursue the decisions that we made. Stock transfer was the housing issue that we agreed we would examine. After meeting Scottish Homes, we should examine the financial implications and the community empowerment aspects of stock transfer.John and I discussed how to make progress on those matters, not only with regard to urban areas but with regard to rural areas. Although there are great problems with and concerns about Glasgow, we have a responsibility to broaden our considerations—there are rural areas that are moving quickly on stock transfers. We should have meetings with councils and tenants. I hope that we can schedule those meetings soon because it will take time to get people to attend. I echo what John said about having an early meeting with Scottish Homes. After that we should meet tenants and councils."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.950035+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18272,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18272,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 603300,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:40"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18272,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18272,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 603301,
      "EditedText": "I apologise to the public for keeping them waiting. We have just had a private meeting that ran over. It has been agreed that, if the committee has private meetings in the future, they will be publicised in advance so that the public is not left hanging about outside for half an hour.Welcome to everyone who joins us for the formal part of the meeting. I can formally tell those of you who have the happy task of reading the reports of this committee that we have decided that the committee will produce action plans. For future meetings, we will be reminded of our decisions and action plans will be drawn up after them. We have a substantial agenda today, and our plan is to run through items 2, 3 and 4. That will take us up to around 11:15. We will then have a short break before moving to the questioning of the ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 603311,
      "EditedText": "First, I would like the clerk to get copies of the recommendations of the Scottish Affairs Select Committee report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 603313,
      "EditedText": "I have not seen them. In any case, it is important that we build on some of those points. We should not overdo it. I agree with John that we need to narrow down our priorities. Alex mentioned a number of the crucial points. Funding for the various agencies and how statutory and voluntary agencies interact to ensure that there is no overlap are crucial issues. Rehabilitation centres are also crucial for treatment. I do not want to examine alcohol abuse. That is a problem, but we need to be clear what we are talking about. We are not talking about the problems associated with the use of social or recreational drugs, or problems in middle-class areas; we are talking about social exclusion and social inclusion. We need to be clear about our remit and consider the effects of social exclusion on communities. We know which areas we are talking about. City centres are affected by drug abuse. A lot of the young people who die are found in city centres. How does that affect those communities, which are not necessarily thought of as socially excluded? We need to be more precise in our aims, otherwise, as John said, we will get into an inquiry that will take 18 moths or two years. We must keep it fairly focused and we can do that by deciding with which agencies we want to engage and from whom we want to take evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 603317,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to achieve a greater understanding of where the problems come from, so that we can arrive at solutions. One of the angles that we should consider goes back to housing. Quite a lot of people who live on the streets are there because of drugs and family breakdown. We need to know a bit more about that and about how we can prevent the problem arising in the first place. Our main priority has to be the causes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 603320,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, Margaret, you will consider the points that have been raised about planning and funding, the need for information and Mike's point about looking at the recommendations of the Scottish Affairs Select Committee. I suggest that you come back to the next meeting with a revised remit and a more detailed work programme under each of the phases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18273,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 603321,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I could have a word with Keith and Mike, as they have indicated a particular interest, and anyone else who wishes to be involved. The idea was that during the preliminary phase regular reports to the committee would keep us up to date. I have met a number of agencies to hear their views. I will continue to do that on behalf of the committee and to work out some programme for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18273,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 603326,
      "EditedText": "I am keen that the committee gets out and about and engages people in dialogue so that we take evidence and gather information that will help us to make informed decisions. I do not think that we do much by inviting people along who then have to sit and watch the proceedings. We want to involve people in our work. I support what you say about objecting strongly to what today's press reports as the Parliamentary Bureau's ruling. That is not acceptable. We want to get out and meet people"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18273,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 603333,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we can produce more detailed reports on that as we gather evidence."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 603340,
      "EditedText": "I agree with John and Fiona that the issue of stock transfer should be an early priority for us, but I also want to flag up what John said about housing finance. He is right: it is a complex area. Two thirds of housing finance is expenditure on housing benefit. As we know, the UK Government is proposing changes to housing benefit. They were flagged up in an English housing green paper, even though the measures will cover the whole of the UK. I suggest that when the Government announces its initial proposals for the reform of housing benefit, this committee considers them seriously to ensure that measures are not dictated by the demands of England and ignore the needs of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 603336,
      "EditedText": "We will take some general comments on the paper and then move on to specific points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 603337,
      "EditedText": "Stock transfer is an issue that we should home in on at an early stage because it is complex and there is a variety of views against the proposals. Decisions will be made on the matter in the near future, so it is important that we have an understanding of how the process operates, what are the advantages and risks and what are the criticisms that have been levied by a number of housing bodies. That might involve hearing from the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations and groups like it which have a view, as well as finding out what the councils who are putting in bids have to say."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 603338,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Robert. Stock transfer is receiving publicity as if it were the only important housing issue. In fact, as we know from John's list, much is happening. I would like the committee to address stock transfer at an early opportunity by taking evidence from all sources—for example from tenants and organisations who are well qualified to speak on the issue. We could then form an opinion about whether stock transfer is the best way forward for our housing stock."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 603343,
      "EditedText": "John's paper provides us with a useful overview of the issues that we have to consider. I am hearing that we need training in housing finance, that we need to meet Scottish Homes, and that we need to spend a considerable amount of time looking at housing stock transfer. Obviously, the situation in Glasgow will form part of that discussion, but we will also take in the rural dimension."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18274,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 603345,
      "EditedText": "And its overall social inclusion agenda."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 603347,
      "EditedText": "A long-term plan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 603351,
      "EditedText": "We have to get the facts on the table. I take issue with John on whether we need input from the Scottish Executive at this stage. We as a committee should take responsibility for gathering the evidence and come to a decision on what we want. We do not need advice from the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 603352,
      "EditedText": "That is not what John McAllion is suggesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 603353,
      "EditedText": "Let us leave the grilling of the Scottish Executive until after we have heard all the evidence and formed an opinion on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 603354,
      "EditedText": "I cannot see John disagreeing with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 603355,
      "EditedText": "We can make the point when we have the ministers here that in future we intend to seek their views on housing stock transfer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 603357,
      "EditedText": "Is it agreed that I should try to arrange with the clerks an early meeting with Scottish Homes? That is our first priority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 603358,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I would be keen to tackle the finance issue too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 603363,
      "EditedText": "Another 10 minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 18275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ID": 18275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 603365,
      "EditedText": "We have dealt with some of this already. I had a word with Martin Verity prior to this meeting, because we need to project our work forward. That does not mean to say that our programme will be written on tablets of stone—obviously, events will overtake us. However, I would like some sense of the direction that we want to take over the next six months. The decisions that we have made will probably provide us with work until Christmas.The Executive may decide to legislate on warrant sales and other issues, and we will need to leave some space for that. With the committee's permission, I will ask Martin to keep looking through our decisions, to ensure that nothing falls off the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 18275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ID": 18275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 603368,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Just to move the anti-poverty issue along a wee bit, it would be helpful if at our next meeting in a fortnight's time we could have a similar paper to the ones we had on drugs and housing, mapping out our anti-poverty work programme from the small group that was set up. That would be extremely helpful. At this stage we should agree formally that, as of 29 September, we will establish a pattern of weekly meetings, with the meeting in the last week in October being on a Monday or a Friday outside Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 18275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ID": 18275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 603369,
      "EditedText": "Have we agreed that from 29 September we will meet weekly on Wednesday mornings, with the last meeting of the month being outwith Edinburgh, or more flexible? That would be helpful, as a number of issues will come up under the anti-poverty strategy. We have to look at the work of the action teams for the social inclusion network and receive independent evidence about what they are doing. The social inclusion partnership strategy needs to be raised, as there are huge issues to do with that. There are the two aspects of the anti-poverty strategy: we need to scrutinise what is currently under way and to think about our own proposals, which might involve taking a fresh look at research and evidence. The wee group will meet and produce a paper on that for the next meeting.Is there anything from our private discussions that I have forgotten to raise about forward planning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 18275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ID": 18275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 603370,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to circulate the copy of the report from the Scottish poverty information unit, showing that, according to The Scotsman, millions of Scots face life below the poverty line."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 18275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18275,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 603375,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 603381,
      "EditedText": "We do not have it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 603385,
      "EditedText": "Goodness. I will talk to officials about that. I will keep my comments brief—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 603391,
      "EditedText": "Can we request an adjournment so that the papers can be made available? We cannot possibly carry on a question session with a minister when we do not have the relevant papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 603392,
      "EditedText": "We will suspend the meeting in order to get the papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 603395,
      "EditedText": "Apparently members have copies of annexe C, but it is the wrong order. Annexe D is being circulated as we speak. Once annexe D has been circulated, we shall reconvene and the minister can take us through it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 603396,
      "EditedText": "This is a bit of a predicament. It is not a question of us asking for the papers earlier; it is a matter of the minister letting us have them in reasonable time, so that members of the committee can study them and make the meeting worth while."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 603402,
      "EditedText": "As Alex says, housing benefit is a reserved matter, so when the proposals are published they will be for the UK as a whole, not just for England. Housing benefit is intimately linked to tax and benefit reform and welfare reform as a whole so it would be inappropriate to suggest that the reform of housing benefit can be looked at in a Scottish-only context. Housing organisations in Scotland are aware of that. However, you can rest assured that the Secretary of State for Scotland and I will be kept in touch with developments as the UK Government thinks through what is appropriate in a reserved matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 603405,
      "EditedText": "I see that Alex wants to comment, but I need to let other people in as well."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 603407,
      "EditedText": "One of our key measures is the care and repair scheme. Karen raises a more fundamental and interesting issue, on which I would be interested to hear the committee's view—whether we should create a single housing budget for local authorities. As the committee is aware, we currently have improvement grant, care and repair and rough sleeping moneys and housing regeneration area allocations. One of the questions that is floated in the green paper—and with which I will be struggling over the months ahead—is whether to get the priorities right at a local authority level, so that we can prioritise independent living for the increasing number of elderly people, or, instead of having those pockets of spend on housing, to create a unified housing budget as part of the legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 603410,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned about the way in which the minister expressed her answer. The total sum of money may stay the same and that might keep the lenders happy, but it may not stay the same for the individuals in the houses. Some people might be told that they cannot stay in a house any longer because they are no longer getting housing benefit; they will need to move out of the new housing that is benefiting from the new investment. Is that what the minister is saying? If so, it is something that the Parliament should be debating now."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 603413,
      "EditedText": "John is right that there are three major policy issues surrounding the reform of housing benefits: one deals with reserved maters, one has an impact on devolved policy areas and the other is of common concern to both Parliaments. John flagged up the fact that one of the fundamental issues at the heart of housing benefit reform is a desire to reform the housing market. Everybody who is involved with housing says that the portable subsidy that housing benefit represents presents us with a difficulty because it is totally unrelated to the quality of the individual house. Long-term reform has to address that issue.Another important point on the housing market, which touches on reserved matters—I mentioned it in my response to Alex—is that work must pay. It should be easier for people to move into employment and not be penalised. Therefore, the reform of housing benefit also has to meet objectives that are associated with welfare, tax and benefit reform.The priority that we share with Westminster is in dealing with fraud in housing benefit. The beneficiaries of most fraud are not tenants but landlords, particularly in parts of the UK outwith Scotland, where private landlords own a greater share of the housing market. Estimates suggest that housing benefit fraud costs around £600 million annually."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 603420,
      "EditedText": "It is also about community involvement in the decision making thereafter. I want to know more about the homelessness strategy. I am glad to see that the homelessness task force papers have been circulated to the committee—I hope that that will be done with future papers. The papers talk about the importance of local authority strategies, about which I have some questions. First, have you formed a view about the time scale and the method of developing those strategies? Secondly, have you and the homelessness task force reached consensus about the format of a single social tenancy? How does that fit in with the business of housing stock transfers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 603422,
      "EditedText": "What progress is being made on the single social tenancy? Do you have a clear view on it at this stage, or is the matter still being examined?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 603428,
      "EditedText": "I want to take this opportunity to refute totally the notion that our housing policy is exclusively about stock transfers. One of my Cabinet colleagues pointed out to me that the green paper on housing, to which we have just had responses, represented the most radical piece of housing legislation in Scotland for at least two decades, and probably more. It is characterised by a single social tenancy—which means that council tenants will no longer be poor relations—a single budget, a single housing plan and radical institutional reform. I have no doubt that, in four years time, it will be seen as a landmark piece of housing legislation. I would like to pay tribute to the people in the previous Administration who were involved in drawing up the green paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 603431,
      "EditedText": "Can I have an answer to the question?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 603432,
      "EditedText": "The choice will be made by tenants. Seven stock transfer ballots are due to be held. One of the tragedies of the way in which some of our opponents discuss the new housing partnerships is that they ignore the fact that there are three types of partnerships—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 603433,
      "EditedText": "Convener, can I have an answer to my question? It is very straightforward—if tenants vote no in the ballot, what is plan B?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 603434,
      "EditedText": "I will not spend much longer on this, as there are other issues on the agenda for us to discuss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 603435,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but my question has not been answered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 603436,
      "EditedText": "We have made a sum of money available for three different types of new housing partnerships. One of those involves stock transfers, should the tenants want them. If tenants decide that stock transfer is not the right option for them, the money will remain in the pot and can be used for the other kinds of new housing partnerships that are on offer and which are currently being taken up by authorities all over Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 603439,
      "EditedText": "I have a point on housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 603443,
      "EditedText": "Not during election years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 603444,
      "EditedText": "That is 5.2 per cent on average over the past 20 years. The need to give tenants some security about future rent levels is very important. It is a problem that has been around for the past 20 years under existing arrangements, not one that will be created by stock transfer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 603445,
      "EditedText": "I want to move on to the anti-poverty strategy and the social inclusion strategy in general. I will try not to dominate the discussion, but I think it is only fair that I have the chance to ask one question.There has been considerable debate in the committee about the need to set targets and measurements to indicate that we are making significant achievements in tackling poverty and social exclusion. Can the minister tell us how she will measure her effectiveness in tackling those problems in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
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      "ID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 603449,
      "EditedText": "Those are three very fair questions. The first item on the list that I gave you is about evaluation frameworks. In December, we suggested that we would be publishing the monitoring and evaluation framework for social inclusion partnerships. It will be four months before the framework is published, and the committee may want to talk to Jackie Baillie before that. I know that Alex Neil has asked me questions on the same matter.To be candid with you, this is a difficult area. We have to have probity in the use of public money. On the other hand, if the Scottish Parliament is about genuine empowerment, we do not want to shoehorn local communities into priorities set by the Government—be they priorities in child care or anything else. There is a tough balance to strike. There are now 47 SIPs, they are very different from the past, and some of them are thematic. Please talk, either individually or collectively, to Jackie and her officials about how you think we can get the balance right. I am aware that many of you are close to SIP boards or, indeed, on them.The Scottish social inclusion network was set up before the Scottish Parliament existed. We obviously want to continue to use expert input; but equally, the arrival of Scottish democracy in the form of a Parliament means that a different sort of relationship is required. The network is in the midst of drawing together its conclusions for the five action areas, and we have asked the network to let us give them the time to come up with what they believe to be the right way forward. Then, in December or early in the new year, we will sit down and decide what relationship we both feel to be appropriate. I felt that letting the network complete its programme of work was the most important thing, and I hope that it will come and testify to the committee on that basis.On new life for urban partnerships, I agree completely that there is a difficulty about how we manage the running down of cash to the four areas that were singled out to the exclusion of everywhere else, and do so in a way that does not damage community capacity building in those areas. One of the failures of previous policy was that it concentrated on physical infrastructure rather than on people. In those areas, we are considering whether there are opportunities to shift the available capital resources into revenue funding, to allow the continuation of support for projects, without money being spent on the, perhaps, lower priority infrastructure projects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 603452,
      "EditedText": "You probably saw the report from the Scottish poverty information unit on Monday. The headline in The Scotsman was \"Millions of Scots face life below the poverty line\". The Scottish equivalent of the targets that were set by Alistair Darling at the Department of Social Security two weeks ago is to take 125,000 people out of poverty during the lifetime of the UK Parliament. According to Scottish Executive figures, there are 1.25 million people living on or near the poverty line in Scotland. Even if Alistair Darling achieves his targets, well over a million people in Scotland will be left in poverty.How can you eliminate, or significantly reduce, that level of poverty, given that, according to a parliamentary answer that I was given on 29 June, in the third year of the three-year period, expenditure on social inclusion partnership areas—new ones and ones that were inherited from the old programmes—will go down?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 603454,
      "EditedText": "It is in a parliamentary answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "ID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 603457,
      "EditedText": "We are committing a programme of more than £1 billion in the UK. We are raising the winter fuel payment from £20 to £100. We have given a minimum income guarantee, which is linked to earnings and not prices—there has been a desire for that for more than 20 years. We have also given a minimum tax guarantee to those pensioners who have worked hard all their lives and who have a small occupational pension; we have raised personal allowances by more for them than for the rest of the population. The intention is that the average pensioner household will be £240 better off as a result of the changes in the budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 603458,
      "EditedText": "I know that it is frustrating. We will need to get you back, Wendy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "ID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 603461,
      "EditedText": "Of course there were. They should still be pursuing for the poor. Not all council leaders are poor, they do not all represent poor areas or want to give money to poor areas. The point of the committee and the Minister for Communities is to take those people on and to ensure that the poor are represented and get their fair share. It is important that we do not let council leaders argue from the narrow perspective of their own councils."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 603462,
      "EditedText": "The committee may want to talk to their colleagues in local government about that, because, in the near future, they will be considering the issues surrounding finance. I am sure that they would welcome representations from the committee on that matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 603463,
      "EditedText": "I am now going to jump to the subject of drug misuse."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603465",
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    },
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 603465,
      "EditedText": "I will say one more thing before, with the committee's indulgence, inviting Jackie Baillie, the minister who sits on the ministerial drugs task force, to say a few words.There is tremendous good will from both SIPs and local government in getting to grips with the issue. As the convener has said, there is a general sense that the part of the drug problem that needs the most focus is prevention, which falls within the ambit of the committee. We met the COSLA social affairs forum on Monday, ostensibly to discuss housing. I asked Angus MacKay to come with me to talk to COSLA about his plans to take forward the ministerial task force on drugs and to ensure that it was not just about enforcement. There was a very productive exchange with the COSLA leadership about what was being done in local communities and what part COSLA should play.Perhaps Jackie could say something about the work of the ministerial task force and its link to the SIPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 603467,
      "EditedText": "I accept all that the minister is saying, but there is some concern about what is seen by many people to be an imbalance in Government expenditure. In the UK, £1.4 billion is spent on the war on drugs: three quarters of that is spent on crime prevention and a quarter is spent on treatment and rehabilitation. We only have 120 in-patient treatment beds in Scotland. That is a major issue. Obviously it relates more to the health department, but do you lobby or pressurise that department in any way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 603471,
      "EditedText": "I am going to move on. I know that our time is about to run out, but does anyone wish to ask any questions on the voluntary sector?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 603472,
      "EditedText": "The voluntary sector in Scotland is a major employer of something like 100,000 people, not to mention all the volunteers that are involved. Minister, can you tell us how the Executive intends to gather the opinions and expertise of the people who work within that sector, so that they can influence and assist the Executive during the drafting of policy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 603473,
      "EditedText": "That is an area that has been too long neglected. We regard the voluntary sector as becoming a partner in the new Scotland, equal to the Confederation of British Industry and the Scottish Trades Union Congress. We must say that loud and often, and that view is being reflected in our own structures. Jackie is the minister with explicit responsibility for the voluntary sector, a post that has not existed before. We have established a voluntary issues unit that is not buried somewhere down in social work, but is at the centre of the Executive and reflects the fact that it intervenes in all areas. We have made a commitment to try to sort out the infrastructure funding for the Scottish Council of Voluntary Organisations and the other people who are fundamental to pulling together the views of the voluntary sector. The Scottish compact, which enshrines a new relationship of partnership between Government and the voluntary sector, will come before the Parliament in the autumn. The compact will also hasten a more sophisticated relationship around three-year core grant funding and more stability in funding regimes, for which the voluntary sector has been crying out for many years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 603474,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the Scottish Executive's commitment to three-year funding and increased stability of funding, but that is not a matter for only the Scottish Executive. What steps are you taking to get local government to do the same?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 603477,
      "EditedText": "On a technical point, is the question of warrant sales going to be referred to the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 603478,
      "EditedText": "That is more than a technical question. Will you give a commitment to support the private member's bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 603482,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:34."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 603414,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that you agree that housing benefit is a major issue, Wendy, and that it will be added to annexe D of your paper.You talked about the possibility of a unified housing budget for councils. In a city such as Glasgow, a situation might arise where there was a unified housing budget but the council had no houses on which to use the budget. You have obviously taken an active role in Glasgow. On August 13, the Evening Times said that you intended to go ahead with a single wholesale stock transfer to a single landlord. Is that so?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.950035+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 603302,
      "EditedText": "Let us begin with the preliminary consideration of the drugs inquiry, which has gained a wee bit of publicity. The purpose of this paper is to get us started on the issue; it is not meant to be a definitive statement or watertight, as it must be thought through a bit. The title will be \"Drugs and Social Inclusion—The Impact on Communities\". I should formally welcome Keith Raffan: we wish him well and we are glad to have him back. I say that because Keith is particularly interested in this matter and has flagged up the issue of drugs in previous committee meetings, emphasising the need for care and rehabilitation rather than enforcement. That is what we have focused on in this paper. The proposed remit is:1. To examine the extent to which the realities of addiction lead to exclusion for individuals, families and communities. 2. To examine current responses to issues of addiction by key agencies and services.3. To ascertain proposals from local communities who have attempted to respond to issues of exclusion caused by problems of addiction.4.  To produce a series of short recommendations that can be passed onto appropriate sources within the parliament and the Executive.Members can see that that is a fairly tight, small-scale remit. We do not see ourselves coming up with the definitive answer on drugs and social exclusion. We are beginning to examine community responses to issues of addiction and beginning recommendations that may go on to other issues of the Parliament. Do members want to comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 603303,
      "EditedText": "After the previous meeting, it seems that we need a clear definition. Are we talking about addiction and social exclusion or about drugs and social exclusion? If we are talking about drugs and social exclusion, which drugs are we including and which are we excluding?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 603304,
      "EditedText": "I am worried about the title of the paper—a small thing, but it indicates where we are going. \"Drugs and Social Exclusion\" is fine, but \"The Impact on Communities\" is not. We know that drugs have a desperate impact on communities. There should be a more definite indication of what we are looking for—what ways there are of improving the situation.I take on board what Lloyd has just said. We have a problem. Many people are examining cross-addiction, not just between different kinds of drugs, but including alcohol—which is a kind of drug. Alcohol often leads on to the use of soft and hard drugs. That is a controversial statement, but it is a view that is held by many. Our point is that we do not want to get into a long, extended inquiry. A short, sharp report that produces short, sharp recommendations is the way to proceed. We must be aware of the connection between alcohol and drugs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 603305,
      "EditedText": "Lloyd is right in a sense. The title is phrased deliberately. My understanding was that the committee took the clear decision that we would examine addiction with the emphasis on illegal drugs, but all the agencies tell us that there is a clear connection between alcohol misuse and drugs misuse. Therefore, part of the inquiry is to examine those problems. We do not want to examine alcohol issues in too much depth—the alcohol agencies do that—but we must consider the connections. That is why drugs are mentioned in the title. In drafting the title, I was guided by the agencies who felt that it would help us to get into a short, sharp burst, but the issues could be raised by the inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18273,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 603306,
      "EditedText": "We agreed that we must build on the report of the Scottish Affairs Select Committee rather than reinvent the wheel. We must build a number of recommendations from that committee's report into our remit. The committee found that Scotland is in danger of becoming the drugs capital of Europe. The number of injectors—20,000—is three times the rate per head of population in Holland. We must discover why it is so high here. We must examine the significance of Holland being a relatively rich country that does not have the massive concentrations of deprivation and poverty that we have in Scotland.Secondly, one of the main findings of the report was the lack of information on drug use and abuse in Scotland. We must establish what information is available. I want the proposed drugs enforcement agency to have an explicit remit to address the problem of drugs in deprived areas. It should not just take a legalistic approach; it must have a social remit and powers to examine the social aspects of this problem. The select committee reported that further information about funding is required. It is not clear how much money is spent on this problem, whether the funding is properly co-ordinated and whether we get value for money. Part of the remit should be to examine funding for prevention, treatment and aftercare. We must ensure that funding is focused properly.The final point arising from the select committee report, which must be included in the remit, is the definition of drug use and drug deaths. It recommended that the definition of drug deaths should be broadened to include related drownings, infections, murders and road traffic accidents. We confine drug deaths statistically to those that are the direct result of an overdose of heroin or other drugs. Many other deaths are an indirect result of drug use. All those points should be included in our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 603308,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to widen the focus of the inquiry because it is important that it is focused, but we cannot ignore the fact that drugs are as prevalent in some prosperous areas of Scotland as in others. For example, oil-rich, cash-rich Aberdeen, Fraserburgh and the Broch are among the worst areas for heroin and cocaine abuse in Scotland.There is a clear imbalance in Government spending at the moment. Three quarters of the £1.4 billion spent in the UK is spent on crime prevention. Only a quarter of that figure is spent on treatment, education and rehabilitation. The Government's focus is on cutting supply. It should be on cutting demand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 603309,
      "EditedText": "Even this discussion on a short, sharp inquiry is turning into a long-winded affair. We must be careful. Already we are talking about following up the Westminster Scottish Affairs Select Committee report, which in itself would be a major task for this committee. We are also considering an examination of the remit of the drugs enforcement agency, which would be another major task. Now we are talking about considering prosperous areas as well as deprived areas, where the drug problems are different. An inquiry that took in all of those recommendations would take 18 months or two years. The inquiry must be either short and sharp or detailed. The committee seems to be suggesting that it wants the inquiry to be detailed, which will take time. Later, I will argue for a big programme of work on housing, which the committee must also address along with the voluntary sector and a range of other poverty issues. We need to make up our minds. What are our priorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 603310,
      "EditedText": "We can cover some of the issues in a short, sharp inquiry, but perhaps not all of them. It may be difficult, for example, to consider the enforcement agency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 603312,
      "EditedText": "They have already been circulated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 603315,
      "EditedText": "We need to curtail this part of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 603319,
      "EditedText": "This issue will undoubtedly go to other parts of the Parliament—probably the committee structure—and we may be able to make recommendations to some ministers. My interpretation of our previous discussion is that this committee wants to get a sense of what it is really like to live in communities that pay the highest price for the drug problem and that that must determine our agenda. That is why I have recommended a preliminary phase. We must investigate—not necessarily formally—those communities, the people who have misused drugs and their families, who have suffered directly. A lot of evidence from those people has not found its way into the political system. It is inevitable that we will end up looking at how projects, through-care and support strategies are funded. If we are pushed in the direction of looking at the legal system, we can recommend on. We are all well acquainted enough with the problem to know where it is likely to take us. I have no difficulty with adding other interested bodies to our inquiry. If someone has something to say to us, we must manage that sensibly. Let us see where the debate takes us before we become too prescriptive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 603325,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is a clear view across the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 603327,
      "EditedText": "How do you propose to deal with part B, on the timescale and the gathering of evidence? How will we establish who we want to speak to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 603328,
      "EditedText": "Is that on the drugs paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 603329,
      "EditedText": "Yes. You talked about establishing key sources and evidence from communities, from addicts themselves and from their families. I could suggest a number of agencies and I am sure that others could too. How are we going to establish who to talk to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 603330,
      "EditedText": "After this decision has been made, I would like to talk to committee members who have expertise. Keith, you and others have mentioned possibilities for consultation. We should talk to the agencies and establish a profile of key agencies and parties. We will want to consult key sources. They would be previous reports and some of the international material that has been published. There is also strong evidence that we should hear directly from people with experience of drugs in their families, as well as from knowledgeable agencies. The emphasis, again, would be on rehabilitation, care and treatment, rather than on enforcement issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 603334,
      "EditedText": "I would like to move on to housing, which is a key part of our remit. John McAllion is our reporter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 603335,
      "EditedText": "I have circulated a brief progress report on our work to date. Members can see from it that I am in the process of meeting and consulting various groups. Fiona Hyslop and I have had a very good meeting about our ideas of what the work programme should be.We also met the Chartered Institute for Housing and Ownership Options in Scotland, which is a voluntary organisation that promotes ownership for people with disabilities and learning difficulties.Further meetings have been arranged. I am meeting the west of Scotland forum of housing associations after this meeting and will meet the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations. I will meet Robert Brown to discuss his member's bill and how it might impact on the work of the committee.Many other groups should be given the chance to have some input, such as Shelter, the Scottish Council for the Single Homeless and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities.You will see that a possible outline programme has resulted from the discussions I have had. It covers about a dozen important areas, such as housing investment, affordability, the role of Scottish Homes, the role of local authorities, the housing green paper, the Government's legislative programme, the social rented sector, tenants' rights, housing finance and access to housing.We cannot deal with those all at the same time—we must prioritise, plan and timetable the areas on which we think the committee should concentrate. My final report to the committee will suggest possible time scales and priorities. I would like to do that in consultation with other members of the committee and with other bodies.There is still the problem of what we do in the interim; we should not do nothing. That is why I have mentioned possible early action. We could—in the early stages—use those organisations for gathering evidence.The Chartered Institute for Housing, for example, was keen to point out that very few people in Scotland understand the complex housing finance system. If this committee does not understand it, that will be a major handicap, so it may be worth being briefed on that. John Breslin has been mentioned and he is one of the few people who genuinely understands and can explain it. It might be beneficial to have a session with him.We may want to discuss the responses to the consultation to the green paper or we may want to invite one of the outside organisations to give evidence. We may want to bring Scottish Homes in. Peter McKinlay is leaving that organisation and as yet no replacement has been appointed. Instead, the chairman has been asked to do a day's extra work per week. We could maybe bring in Peter McKinlay and John Ward to question them on how they see the future of Scottish Homes. That future seems uncertain at this stage. We must get on with the programmeOne issue that I wish to raise is that the meetings in here are inadequate. I did not realise that this was an all-ticket affair. Many people turned up this morning but could not get in because they did not know that it was ticketed. This is the best committee room we have. Meetings that deal with housing—for example the one with Scottish Homes—should be held in this room because they will be useful and of interest to the public. Some other meetings, for example those at which we take evidence on housing finance, could take place in one of the smaller committee rooms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 603341,
      "EditedText": "Convener, while it may be predictable that you and I consider that there is absolutely nothing that is more problematic with regard to Scottish housing than council housing in Glasgow, we must recognise that there is a rural dimension to the problem. We must underline the fact that housing investment impinges almost entirely on the so-called partnership agreements, or stock transfers. Until such time as we are able to achieve consensus on that issue—if people disagree we should at least be out in the open—there is little hope of an increased level of housing investment, particularly in the peripheral schemes of our major cities, which is the main problem before us. That must be the priority and it underlines the decision that we took at our previous meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 603348,
      "EditedText": "In the meantime, I would argue very strongly for a public meeting with Scottish Homes and a less-than-public meeting on housing finance in one of the smaller committee rooms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 603349,
      "EditedText": "People seem to be in agreement about the early meetings. I take Cathie's point that housing stock transfer is not the only issue, but it looks as if we might have to make early decisions on that. I am keen to hear submissions giving the case for and against. I know that the Scottish Tenants Organisation, the Glasgow Campaign against the Housing Stock Transfer and other organisations have strong views on the issue. It is incumbent on this committee to hear those views. We also have to hear the housing associations, which have a different perspective on the issue, and to examine the Executive's proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 603350,
      "EditedText": "At the moment seven local authorities are considering housing stock transfer. It might be advisable to take evidence from some of those—perhaps from one rural and one urban authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 603359,
      "EditedText": "That would have to be at another meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 603362,
      "EditedText": "I know. It will no last long."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 603364,
      "EditedText": "Fifteen.Thanks for your work, John. That was very helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 18275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 603371,
      "EditedText": "A number of reports are being issued. Given our connections, I am sure that we all pick up reports; it would be useful if we were to circulate that material to each other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 18275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ID": 18275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 603372,
      "EditedText": "As an MSP, that report was circulated to me, so I assume that everybody has it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 18275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 603374,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 603376,
      "EditedText": "I formally welcome the ministers to the meeting and say that we look forward to a constructive and challenging relationship with them. I will start on that note: the committee was disappointed that it had not been informed of the Executive's announcement this morning on the rough sleepers initiative. We will ask the Parliament and the Executive that committees be given prior warning of announcements that are relevant to their work. Given that we are meeting with ministers this morning, it would have been useful to have been aware of the announcement.After the minister has spoken for five minutes, we will ask questions. As we have a substantial programme to get through, the questions will be categorised so that we do not meander. We will start with housing, move on to social inclusion, which will probably include the issues of drugs and warrant sales, and then deal with the voluntary sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Communities (Ms Wendy Alexander): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 603377,
      "EditedText": "I realise that my paper is rather long, so I will keep my introduction short. The ministerial team looks forward to working closely with the committee during the next year. We all have a challenging task because social inclusion has not featured strongly in Scottish policy making in the past 20 years. We are in the process of growing a new function in the Scottish Executive and I look forward to working with the committee and to growing a new commitment to social inclusion within the work of the Parliament. I look to the committee to play a leadership role on forming policy, and I want to highlight several issues. We are keen to facilitate joint working between the committee and the Law Society of Scotland on repossession legislation in order to get that legislation right, which will be a first for the Executive. In Westminster, 10-minute rule bills come and go and make no impact on legislation. For the first time, the Executive wants to encourage the committee to work with the Law Society and to become a major player in developing the legislation. The paper highlights my main areas of responsibility, and I will not touch on them as, no doubt, we will deal with them later. I want to address briefly the issue of homelessness.As members know, in the programme for government document, each cabinet minister had to choose what they thought was the most important pledge in their field and we chose an end to rough sleeping as the most important. During the summer, as we reflected on what we needed to do on homelessness, it became apparent to us that, in order to meet that commitment, we needed to find extra resources within the budget. This pledge is based on outcome—not on input, or even on output. I am very proud of that, as it is another first for the Executive.As I said, while we took that decision during the summer, when we saw the evidence that the £30 million that we had put into rough sleeping initiatives was not enough and that an increase of 40 per cent was required, the announcement was made today. Coincidentally, today is my programme for government day. As members are aware, the First Minister has invited cabinet ministers to roll out their pledges and I have asked for a debate on homelessness, which will take place tomorrow. I want to talk about annexe D, which is the last page of my paper. I have tried to scope out for the committee the work programme that ministerial colleagues and I will be engaged on over the four months until Christmas—I do not know how many other ministers have provided similar information—when I expect that the committee will want to invite me back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 603378,
      "EditedText": "Can I stop you for a minute, Wendy? Which page are you referring to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 603380,
      "EditedText": "I think members' copies have been circulated in a different order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 603382,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but I do not think that we have this paper. We are a bit concerned that we received the papers late, and I will write to you about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 603383,
      "EditedText": "We do not have annexes C or D."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 603384,
      "EditedText": "The papers are not in the same order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 603386,
      "EditedText": "If we had received this paper some days earlier, we would have been able to contact you to point out that we had not received annexes C or D. As we received it yesterday, that was rather difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "ID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 603390,
      "EditedText": "Margaret, we cannot discuss something that we do not have in front of us. Can we have copies now, please?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 603393,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 603394,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 603397,
      "EditedText": "All the papers, including annexes C and D, were delivered to the clerks 24 hours in advance. Members should take up the issue with the committee clerks. I suggest that we leave the matter there, and allow the committee to discuss it in closed session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 603398,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We shall pursue that matter appropriately. Now, let us return to annexe D."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 603400,
      "EditedText": "That is very helpful; the programme will inform our forward plan. We are short of time so I will move swiftly on to the main areas of questioning, beginning with housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 603408,
      "EditedText": "On housing benefit reform, I take the minister's point that tackling poverty is an objective that is shared between Westminster and Holyrood, but housing policy is devolved, and stock transfers and the attracting of private investment in public sector housing are central to the minister's housing green paper. No private sector investor will sink money into public sector housing if they are not assured of the rent flows that will come from that housing. Housing benefit is absolutely central to the policy of stock transfer. What input is the Scottish Executive making to the housing benefit discussions at Westminster in terms of the impact on housing in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 603409,
      "EditedText": "John raises an important point about the impact on lenders of changes in housing benefit. In the discussions that I had with lenders as recently as this week, I found that they were aware that changes to housing benefit are anticipated. Their concern is about what the total sum of money from housing benefit coming to Scotland is likely to be—that is the guarantee of rental income that they are looking for. I think that they are confident of accommodating changes in the distribution of housing benefit that may flow from reform. As long as the aggregate flow of housing benefit is predictable, they are confident that their ability to be involved in stock transfers will not be impeded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "ID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 603417,
      "EditedText": "Like Fiona, I have to be convinced that any proposals coming forward represent genuine community ownership and that whatever is taken to the tenants represents genuine community empowerment. As to Fiona's other point—and we must all be clear on this—talk of privatisation is dishonest and totally misplaced. There is a lot of scaremongering, but I have made clear at every stage that, as an outcome of this, all houses will be with either the tenants themselves or a non-profit distributing landlord. It is depressing to hear the misinformation surrounding the issue. However, discussions are going on and no announcement or decisions have been made. Parliament will be the first to know when we feel that there is a way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "ID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 603421,
      "EditedText": "I will answer those questions in reverse order. First, in the context of stock transfer, any council that is transferring houses has to have access to the acquiring landlord's stock to ensure that the landlord's statutory obligations on homelessness are met. I share Robert's concern about that. As he may know, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the SFHA are working together to produce a framework model contract that would allow that commitment to be met. The Scottish Executive provided finance to facilitate that to ensure that the commitments to the homeless are met.Robert also asked where we were on the homelessness strategy in general. I will say a word on that, although any further points you wish to make would be answered more appropriately by Jackie, who convenes the homelessness working party. As people know, and as I said to Parliament in June, we consulted on whether we needed to have a new legislative framework for homelessness. The unanimous response was that that was necessary, because, after 20 years, the homelessness legislation framework was out of date. We set up the homelessness task force—it is having its second meeting next week. As I said, Jackie is convening the group, which comprises a variety of people. I invite individuals in the committee who have a particular interest to attend. I have already invited Robert to talk to Jackie about how the homelessness working party can make representations to this committee. We have given the working party the deadline of very early in the new year to report to us. That will enable its proposals for legislative change to be incorporated into the housing bill that we are committed to publishing in the first half of next year. Realistically, the bill is likely to be published towards the end of the first half of next year. It will come to this committee for pre-legislative scrutiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 603423,
      "EditedText": "It is still being examined. The responses to the housing green paper suggest strongly that people want a single social tenancy. It is felt that for 20 years the Tories tried—on ideological grounds—to make council tenants the poor relations, and that they were interested in having two kinds of tenancy in the social rented sector. I think that the committee shares our desire for a single social tenancy.The responses reflected the whole spectrum of views. Some people said that the single social tenancy should have the characteristics of an assured tenancy, but others responded that its essential characteristics should be those of a secure tenancy. We have not decided where on the spectrum the new single social tenancy should lie. Again, that may be something that the committee will want to investigate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "ID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 603424,
      "EditedText": "I will take a couple more questions on housing, and then I will move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 603426,
      "EditedText": "If I had not looked at the paper, I would have said 937, which was the figure until fairly recently. However, I am told that, with the money that will be available this year, the figure is expected to rise to 1,500 properties across Scotland. That is encouraging news."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 603427,
      "EditedText": "I have two or three questions. The first is fairly obvious. From your memorandum, minister, it seems as though your policy on housing is entirely predicated on stock transfer. What is your back-up plan if tenants reject stock transfer in a ballot?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 603429,
      "EditedText": "Instead of making a statement and saying thanks very much to the Tories, who have provided Labour with its current ideological basis, will the minister answer my question? If the result of the ballot is negative, what is plan B?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 603441,
      "EditedText": "I will confine myself to one question about stock transfers. I would be interested in having some idea of the discussions that have taken place with the chief secretary of the Treasury about the funding. In the case of Glasgow, the minister is on record as saying that, if the ballot goes in the direction that some of us hope, the Executive will take care of Glasgow's housing debt by servicing that debt. A massive amount of investment is required to bring Glasgow's council housing up to an acceptable standard. It follows, therefore, that those who invested would need to be assured that the rents that they would be allowed to charge would be economic—some might say excessive. That being the case, the issue of housing benefit comes into play. It may be that, at the end of the day, the Exchequer—by way of housing benefit—is servicing that debt. Have the amounts been quantified and what was the chief secretary's reaction?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 603442,
      "EditedText": "The Government's position on what it is prepared to do about debt was made clear by my predecessor, Calum Macdonald, in letters to Glasgow City Council. In that sense, the position has not changed from the undertakings that were given last October and December.I want to say one thing about Bill's point on rents. One of the most interesting things about Glasgow—I have taken the opportunity to consider this—is that, over the past 20 years, rents have increased by 5.2 per cent each year. Clearly, that has been very difficult for tenants, although housing benefit has picked up most of the tab."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 603447,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Does anyone else want to come in on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 603450,
      "EditedText": "People who are excluded, or who live in poverty generally, have great difficulty finding employment. In the social inclusion document, \"Opening the door to a better Scotland\", there is a commitment to attracting business into deprived communities and to encouraging people to take up educational opportunities. How will we achieve that? I represent an area that has rural deprivation. It is very difficult to attract new businesses to such areas. That problem is not unique to Lanarkshire, but exists throughout Scotland. How will the Scottish Executive make that commitment more than words? How will you introduce policies to do something about the problem?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 603464,
      "EditedText": "Minister, in the memorandum, you say that there is a strong link between social exclusion and drug misuse. You go on to say that the particular role of your department is to address the economic and social problems of those areas that are particularly affected by drug misuse. Can you elaborate on that and on the way in which you see your department contributing to the ministerial task force?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 603480,
      "EditedText": "That is on our agenda. I realise that the shortage of time is very frustrating. Ministers, thank you very much. The desperation to ask more questions that is evident around the table indicates that we will probably ask you back soon. Thank you again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 603307,
      "EditedText": "I have no difficulty with that. I was suggesting that detail would be mapped out as we go into the issue in greater depth, especially the funding issues, but those are exactly the kinds of issues that we will examine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 603314,
      "EditedText": "May I make a suggestion? I agree with Mike and John that we must be focused, but we cannot ignore the connections. It may be useful to have written evidence on the connections between alcohol and drug abuse, for example, or between the situation in deprived areas, such as those in Aberdeen—which do exist—and in prosperous areas. We need to consider that connection, too: how drugs spread. With a problem as widespread as drugs, we cannot pigeonhole."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 603316,
      "EditedText": "I want to underline Mike's point. I am concerned that we are losing our focus. We are here to focus on the effects of drugs on communities. If we start spreading into the effects of alcohol—although I appreciate that alcohol causes problems—we are likely to lose that focus. I am also concerned that bringing alcohol addiction into the debate is becoming a bit of a Trojan horse and that those who see alcohol as a soft drug may use that as a mechanism to press for the legalisation of cannabis. The argument is in danger of being hijacked. I am also worried that we are being unnecessarily prescriptive. I do not want to lose sight of our focus, but a lot of people have an input into this debate. I would like us to change the wording of the third point on the paper on the remit of the proposed drugs inquiry to say that we will ascertain proposals from local communities and other interested bodies. That would enable organisations that do not meet the criteria outlined under item two on the inquiry's remit to have some input into the committee's deliberations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 603322,
      "EditedText": "This is a good example of where the committee should go out and meet people who live in the real world, rather than sit here in Edinburgh and take evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 603323,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We had a wee discussion about this prior to everyone else joining us. It is clearly the view of this committee—not only in relation to drugs but to all the issues that we deal with—that we cannot do our work sitting in this room. Some work will be done here, but not all of it. We have unanimously agreed to make the strongest representation to the Parliamentary Bureau and to the committee of conveners. The notion that we can have only one meeting outside Edinburgh is absurd. We cannot do our work that way. We can propose to the bureau many options for conducting our work at minimal cost. There is, however, no point in minimising costs to the point at which we cannot do our job, and we must travel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 603324,
      "EditedText": "By definition we would be socially excluding people from the work of this committee if we sat only in Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 603331,
      "EditedText": "When it comes to treatment and rehabilitation there are other parts of the country and, indeed, other parts of the world that are a long way ahead of us. Obviously, the Parliamentary Bureau would call a halt to our bringing people over from the United States, but as so many of the leading figures in treatment are down south, it would be worth considering getting written evidence from them and possibly calling them to the committee to give evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 603332,
      "EditedText": "It would also be appropriate to call on representatives of the Department of Health because not all the relevant budgets are devolved. The national drugs helpline, for example, is still funded centrally from the Department of Health in London although it covers the whole UK. Funding for it has been reduced substantially in the past year or two. The helpline has been a major influence in preventing some problems as well as in assisting treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 603342,
      "EditedText": "I want to back up what Fiona said. It is important to consider the rural angle. Not only is the situation on some housing estates, such as Ferguson Park in Blairgowrie, desperate, but even towns that are relatively prosperous on the surface, such as Perth, have serious problems on certain housing estates. We must not ignore that and get drawn exclusively into dealing with the west of Scotland or the cities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 603344,
      "EditedText": "I accept everything that has been said around the table. At the moment stock transfers are the big issue. As Fiona made clear, the problem is different in rural and urban areas. I envisage having two separate meetings on stock transfers and a third meeting with the Scottish Executive to discover what its intentions are. After all, stock transfers have to be funded.The Chartered Institute of Housing stressed that the committee cannot focus on stock transfers to the exclusion of everything else. West Lothian Council has set up a housing company that successfully runs and manages housing in the public sector. That is an alternative form of investment in public sector housing. In private finance initiative projects currently under way in England, private money is used to build new houses, but the houses are managed and controlled by local authorities in the normal way. That is another option that we must consider. Again, if the Treasury changed its definition of what constitutes public borrowing, some Scottish local authorities could invest massively in housing.We should not focus on stock transfer exclusively, but look at the whole issue of housing investment—how we raise the money that needs to be put into housing. There are several different options on which this committee should be concentrating.The housing benefit reforms that Alex mentioned are absolutely critical. We need to get up to speed on housing benefit. It has implications for affordability, because if people do not receive the requisite benefit, they cannot afford to stay in their houses. It also impacts on the Government's community ownership proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 603346,
      "EditedText": "The Government will not be able to transfer stock if the private lenders are not guaranteed a rent flow through housing benefit. Only a limited amount of the Scottish Parliament block grant is available as housing benefit. We need to consider the implications of housing benefit changes introduced by the Westminster Parliament for how much we can spend in Scotland.There are many issues that we need to consider. I would like to have a broad discussion and draw up with Fiona and anyone else who wants to a final proposal for a programme of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 603356,
      "EditedText": "I imagine that there will be questions today on that issue, so we will get some steer on it.I am being bureaucratic rather than political, but we need to get some decisions made. Housing stock transfers, finance and Scottish Homes will be our pre-Christmas priorities. Can we leave John and the clerks to book rooms and come forward with a programme? We need to ensure that the organisations that have a stake in the issue get access to the committee to give us their perspective. We are also willing to take written evidence. We must not make it too daunting for people if they want to give a formal presentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 603360,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but it would not take too long for some organisations to provide us with a briefing, given their expertise. That does not require much organisation.The big issue will be housing stock transfer. Cathie is absolutely right to say that we need to brief ourselves—let us hear the facts and figures and get the housing association movement, the people who have decided that they are against transfers and the people who favour them, to speak to us. Is that agreed? That is agreed. We are agreeing far too much, folks. This is absurd."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 18275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ID": 18275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 603366,
      "EditedText": "What about forward planning on the anti-poverty strategy? At our previous meeting we agreed that that would be one of our priorities, along with stock transfers. I am reluctant to allow it to slide off our agenda. We set up a working group on the issue to report back to the committee, and we need to decide when it will meet. The issue needs to be given priority in our forward plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 18275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ID": 18275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 603367,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely.I have a number of papers to circulate. I have met staff from the information centre, which is collating information and analysis on international models, poverty proofing and the other matters that we identified. That should get us started.Yesterday I chaired a conference on social inclusion. Various people, including some Irish people, were there, and some interesting information came out of the meeting. I have copies of the papers, which I will circulate to the whole committee. However, the small group that we have set up should pay particular attention to them.The best idea would be to set aside a business hour—even if we are meeting Scottish Homes or tackling the finance issue—for regular reports back on our work on the anti-poverty and drugs issues, and on any other matters. Would that be acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 18275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ID": 18275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 603373,
      "EditedText": "I think that we will all be receiving it.Martin has just reminded me—I should have raised this myself—that the Scottish Council of Voluntary Organisations has agreed to do a seminar for us, possibly on 27 October. Given that we have agreed to a weekly schedule, we could manage that. I have met the SCVO and it seems to have a substantial amount of information, recommendations and ideas for us. If that is agreed, we can pencil it in. The point is that we need to plan our diaries to get in as much as possible early on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 603379,
      "EditedText": "Annexe D—the work programme of ministers' plans."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 603387,
      "EditedText": "I understood from the committee clerk that that was when the committee wanted the paper. If, on future occasions, members request a paper earlier—and I understand why you might want that, Lloyd—we will meet that request."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 603388,
      "EditedText": "I will raise that later, as there has obviously been a misunderstanding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 603389,
      "EditedText": "Let me return to the substantive point. What I did for the committee was very much a gesture of good will that I do not think has been replicated everywhere. I have provided a list of more than 25 areas where I expect to make announcements over the coming months. I did that in order to give the committee advance warning of 25 areas where I expect to have something to say. We would particularly value the committee's input on 13 of those 25 areas, including the responses to the housing green paper—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 603399,
      "EditedText": "Annexe D attempts to give members a flavour of the work programme that the Executive intends to pursue. I wanted the committee to have a full insight into how the ministerial team sees our programme of activity. As we all know, politics is full of \"events, dear boy, events\", but for the moment this is our best effort to explain what is ahead of us. In the paper, I have starred the areas on which we would particularly welcome the insight and perspective of the committee. I hope that you will consider which are of most interest to you and think about holding hearings on them.I draw attention to the programme for October. Members will be aware that the Scottish social inclusion network has been meeting for the past two years. Its membership includes experts on social inclusion and anti-poverty work who have been working very hard on five action team reports. The reports were due to be finished by the end of September; the deadline is slipping slightly but I think that the chairs of the action groups would be happy to testify to the committee. That work will form one of the foundations of the social inclusion strategy that we are committed to preparing.Also due in October is the publication of the final 15-month evaluation of the New Life for Urban Scotland projects—in Whitfield, Ferguslie Park, and so on—that the Tories began. I am told that it is probably the most in-depth piece of work for some time on tackling issues of urban deprivation in Scotland. The committee might want to take a look at it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 603401,
      "EditedText": "There is no mention of housing benefit reform in the work programme in annexe D. Housing benefit accounts for two thirds of housing expenditure in Scotland. Moreover, the UK Government is about to reform housing benefit, as it announced in an English green paper. Given the importance of housing benefit, the committee will want to ensure that a Scottish perspective on the proposed reform is not lost. Will the minister tell us what role she is playing in ensuring that, although housing benefit is a reserved matter, there will be proper input from Scotland at Government level?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 603403,
      "EditedText": "Given that the elimination of poverty is one of your key objectives, surely you have a view on the way in which housing benefit and, indeed, other tax changes should take place? Rather than wait to receive a diktat from London, should you not be making an input into the development of the policy in terms of what you would like housing benefit reform to achieve in eliminating poverty?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 603404,
      "EditedText": "Alex, you are bringing a prejudice to bear when you talk about a diktat from London. We should not use this meeting to point-score. The elimination of poverty is an objective shared between the United Kingdom Government and the Scottish Executive. At no stage will I suggest that I alone am capable of delivering the elimination of poverty. One of the most interesting challenges for this committee and the Executive is how to defeat poverty across the United Kingdom, in terms of what can be achieved on a UK level through tax and benefit reform, and on a Scottish level through enhancing opportunities and tackling the causes of poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 603406,
      "EditedText": "The housing green paper makes reference to allowing people, particularly elderly people, to remain in their homes as they become more frail. What plans does the Scottish Executive have for making that possible, so that old and frail people can live independently as long as they wish?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 603411,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify your question, Mr McAllion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 603412,
      "EditedText": "One suggestion is for the introduction of a flat-rate allowance as part of the housing benefit reforms. That may have implications for individual tenants who are told that the house that they are living in is too big and they have to move to a smaller house. The big house may be transferred and receive a lot of investment and the tenants may be told that, as they are not getting benefit and are no longer staying in the house, they have to move out. In those circumstances, talk about community ownership and new investment in housing is not much use to the people involved, as they are getting put back into the old, rotten housing stock, which increases social exclusion. That is an important argument for the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament. It is also an argument for Westminster—in the sense that we may have to argue with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 603415,
      "EditedText": "When we came to power in May, we inherited the first proposals for that. In June, we stepped into a raging debate in Glasgow on what the way forward should be. There was a consensus among housing interests that there should be one transfer and one ballot, but there was dispute about whether it was correct to have one landlord.I spent time during the summer exploring that issue. Before this Administration came to office, Calum Macdonald had tried to develop a code of conduct between housing associations and the city council, but that seemed to me to be an inappropriate way of moving forward, given the existence of the new Parliament. In the old world, it might have been acceptable for the Scottish Office to send out missives telling two parties to develop a contract, but that would not engage with the magnitude of the issue. I have spent time informally talking to the parties, trying to find out their views. There are a variety of interests in Glasgow, beyond the council, the most obvious of which are the housing associations. We need to decide soon about the way ahead in Glasgow and we should recognise that a variety of parties have an interest in the stock transfer proposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 603418,
      "EditedText": "Housing stock transfers raise major concerns. You indicated that Parliament will be the first to know of your plans, but is there any intention to consult this committee about the criteria, details and the way forward, especially as the key issue is not so much privatisation as community empowerment and localisation? Will you be asking Glasgow to consider the matter again or to change its proposal to meet any new arrangements? Where do we stand on this at the moment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 603419,
      "EditedText": "As I said, we have been involved in extensive discussions. I want to be convinced that the vision of community ownership is realised. We are guaranteed that there will be no change unless the tenants in Glasgow vote for it. I take comfort from that, as we all should, because community empowerment and ownership is about tenants deciding their own future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 603425,
      "EditedText": "I intended to raise the same point about homelessness as Robert raised. Will the minister comment on measures to tackle the problem of homelessness? The empty homes initiative has been under way for a couple of years, but does the minister have figures for how many houses it has brought back into use?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 603430,
      "EditedText": "This is my first opportunity to appear before the committee, and I want to put on record the fact that the overwhelmingly positive response to the green paper from housing organisations in Scotland validates my claim that this will be the most radical piece of housing legislation for at least two decades."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 603437,
      "EditedText": "We have a huge amount on the agenda and I am very concerned that we should move on to issues other than housing. I have made that very clear. Keith and Bill, are your questions on housing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 603438,
      "EditedText": "I will ask a question later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 603440,
      "EditedText": "Please make it quick, Bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 603446,
      "EditedText": "As the committee knows, the partnership made a commitment to produce a social inclusion strategy, and I agree that there is need to set targets for the future. In my opening remarks, I said that one of the things of which I was most proud about the target on rough sleeping is that it is not an input target or an output target, but an outcome target. That is one of the challenges for the Government.The social inclusion strategy will include targets, but we must ensure that those targets are aspirational—about what we want to achieve—rather than simply measuring the failures of the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 603448,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask the minister about the social inclusion partnerships. You have just answered in terms of the micro as opposed to the macro. The social inclusion partnerships have begun to bite and are getting off the ground. How will they be monitored to ensure that the initial priorities remain as priorities? If they do not remain as priorities, how will you allocate resources accordingly during the lifetime of the social inclusion partnerships?How will the social exclusion unit, which has been set up within the Cabinet Office, interact with the social inclusion network, which is made up of civil servants and various expert advisers? How will they take account of the work that this committee is undertaking?Looking backwards rather than forwards, the new life partnerships that existed between 1989 and this year have obviously had a considerable effect in the four areas, but some concern has been expressed as to what will happen to ensure that there is no slippage and that the investment in those areas is not lost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 603451,
      "EditedText": "Let me say three quick things. We are working closely with Scottish Enterprise to ensure that Scottish business is made aware of the opportunities in areas that suffer from social exclusion. Donald Dewar spoke on that at a major conference at Hampden park in the past month, and there is an on-going programme of work in that area with Scottish Enterprise. I am committed to appearing at a number of business events to encourage businesses to relocate.Brian Wilson introduced the property employment support scheme, which is essentially regional selective assistance top-ups for businesses that are prepared to locate in a number of pilot areas, some of which are SIP areas. We are considering whether that scheme is working and whether it is the best way to get businesses into those areas.The tailoring of the new deal—in Scotland only—through the new futures fund allows us to access some of the people who would otherwise be missed by the new deal, and to get them into employment. This year, 100 new futures programmes will be up and running. They will be targeted predominantly on SIP areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 603453,
      "EditedText": "It is not true to say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 603455,
      "EditedText": "You are pointing to the three-year indicative allocations that SIP areas have already been given. The total programme as published in the departmental report indicates a rising line of resources.Your more substantive point was on how we make the greatest impact on poverty in Scotland. The biggest contributor to rising poverty recently has been worklessness. The problem is twofold: first, people are not in work; secondly, the children of those people are more at risk of poverty than are children in other households.The critical issue, which goes far beyond what Alistair Darling was talking about in welfare reform, is unemployment—I know that it is close to your heart. We are delighted that claimant count unemployment in Scotland is at its lowest since 1976. It is certainly the case that the new deal has led to a reduction of 55 per cent in the number of 24-year-olds who have been unemployed for more than six months. Macroeconomic policy is delivering on worklessness and getting people into work.The second issue is that the point at which families fall into poverty is very often when they have children. That is why we emphasise the rise in child benefit, the working families tax credit, the child care tax credit, and a children's tax credit in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 603456,
      "EditedText": "What are you doing about poor pensioners?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 603459,
      "EditedText": "Some of the worst poverty indicators in Scotland are in Glasgow, Dundee and West Dunbartonshire. It is no coincidence that those are three of the councils that suffer most from the acute problems of local government funding, in particular the failure of the system to distribute central Government funds to local authorities, which takes minimal account of deprivation factors. The Minister for Communities is responsible for local government and for social inclusion: what are you doing to change the distribution formula to ensure that those areas get some justice and that poor people living in those areas get the money that they need?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 603460,
      "EditedText": "One of the ways to achieve that is to increase the total size of the cake. This year, we are raising the grant-supported expenditure to local government by 4.8 per cent, which is the best settlement for seven years, and which will increase above the rate of inflation for the next two years. Having a rising cake is certainly a start.As John says, there is an on-going issue surrounding deprivation indicators. As everyone who is close to the COSLA issue will know, post-reorganisation there was a sense that the indicators that had been used for some time were inadequate to the task. There is an on-going programme of review with COSLA. The details about the way in which the deprivation review is carried out is a matter for my colleague Jack McConnell, who is responsible for local government finance. However, I have been kept in touch with COSLA. When I met council leaders on Friday, a variety of different views were expressed about the conduct of the deprivation review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 603466,
      "EditedText": "Keith Raffan may ask a supplementary before we hear from Jackie Baillie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C603468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Communities (Jackie Baillie): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 603468,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We want to ensure the right balance in terms of prevention, rehabilitation and tackling the drug dealers. We are keen to do that in the context of setting up the drug enforcement agency and servicing drugs action teams at a local level. There is a clear link between social exclusion and drug misuse. We play a significant role in terms of prevention and rehabilitation—it is not a single departmental issue, but something that the task force will consider collectively. I encourage the committee to invite Angus MacKay, who leads the task force, to come and discuss that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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      "ID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 603469,
      "EditedText": "Are you worried by the difference in quality of the drug action teams? In some areas they are much better than in others. I know that some aspects depend on the health authorities, but it is very uneven."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C603470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 603470,
      "EditedText": "We have acknowledged that, as has Angus. We have a commitment to ensuring that the drug action teams operate to the same high standard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4382408+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 603475,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly my point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1783E59P270C603476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 18276,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Baillie, Jackie",
      "ID": 1783,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumbarton"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jackie Baillie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 603476,
      "EditedText": "We have already considered that and have worked hard with COSLA to develop guidance for local authorities to encourage them to provide that same stability of three-year funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 603479,
      "EditedText": "We have said that we will look positively at reform of the law of diligence. Part of that is the question of warrant sales, which we regard as inefficient and expensive. There is a question as to whether you try to tackle one aspect of debt management in isolation from others. My plea to this committee would be to examine the question of debt and debt management, including warrant sales, as part of a piece that provides people with the money, advice services and credit union support that prevents them from getting into difficulties. I urge you to talk to your justice colleagues about how that might work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1877E44P176C603481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Alexander, Ms Wendy",
      "ID": 1877,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Alexander: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 603481,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4538667+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Drugs Misuse",
      "HeadingID": 18273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 603318,
      "EditedText": "We need to remember where we came from in this debate. I argued unsuccessfully for a cross-committee inquiry into drugs. If we had that, we would be able to consider the drugs enforcement agency and some of the health issues. We have made the decision that we do not want a cross-committee inquiry. The impact on communities—including funding—is an area where we can have a short, sharp look at the problem and that will lead us on to other areas. Bill was completely wrong to ignore the wider view. It is important to look at the broader aspects of addiction. That might be the avenue—perhaps using written evidence, as Keith says—by which we can start to investigate with the Health and Community Care Committee and other committees. That is the point at which—as I understood we had agreed—the work that we do here will spin off into other areas. Please do not narrow the issue down. Let us look at addiction generally, as part of this and perhaps in written form, but let us keep to the short, sharp look at the social impact of drugs. We must not lose sight of the fact that we should be looking for cross-party and cross-committee work on this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.0585835+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Housing",
      "HeadingID": 18274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 603361,
      "EditedText": "It is the new politics, Margaret."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.950035+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3350
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 18276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ID": 18276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 603416,
      "EditedText": "I would still like to know your intention. The Executive holds the purse-strings and you can have an influence. There is no way that the transfer of 75,000 houses is about community empowerment—a group of 75,000 households is too large to be one community.I believe that the £13 million that was awarded by the national housing project has yet to be paid, although it was due in April. What are the sticking points on that? Do you agree that, if there is to be genuine community ownership, large-scale stock transfers—as proposed in Glasgow—should not happen? When a local housing company is the sole landlord, unless it is governed by industrial and provident society rules, it can be bought by a private company if it all goes belly up—we know that there have been problems in Glasgow housing before. That would be privatisation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:21.950035+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 477872,
      "EditedText": "All committee members have been provided with the Executive summary of the McIntosh report, at the back of which Eugene Windsor and Craig Harper have kindly provided us with examples. Let us begin with, \"Relations with Parliament and Ministers\". The only way to conduct this discussion—and Johann Lamont will kill me for this—is to go through the report line by line. These are McIntosh's recommendations, which is what this committee is about, and we must decide how we will deal with them individually.The first recommendation is:\"The Parliament and the 32 councils should commit themselves to a joint agreement—which we call a Covenant—setting out the basis of their working relationship.\"There is more detail in paragraph 34 of the report. What do members want to say about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 477873,
      "EditedText": "It is a question of who drafts the first draft—whether we do or the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities does, too, and we then compare drafts. We must do something. It is for the Parliament, not the Executive, so it is our baby."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 477876,
      "EditedText": "To the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 477877,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 477878,
      "EditedText": "We will continue as we said we would. This is a non-contentious recommendation, but we have a role to play in implementing it. We will stick to calling it non-contentious, but we will have to consider how to play our role—we will come back to that. Kenny suggested that we consider it, make some decisions and put them to the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 477880,
      "EditedText": "That would contradict the purpose of McIntosh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 477881,
      "EditedText": "We might have expert advisers, too. Eugene will have to get used to speaking up—he has just whispered in my ear again—but that was what he said. That advice sounded good coming from me, but it came from Eugene and I cannot take any credit for it. We will ask the clerks to consider how we might make progress on the covenant and how we might introduce COSLA and other relevant expert advisers to it. Is that agreed? It is agreed.The second recommendation is:\"Parliament and local government should set up a standing Joint Conference to be a place where parliamentarians and local government representatives may hold a dialogue on the basis of equality.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 477883,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that, logically, members of the committee would make up the parliamentary half of such a joint conference, although other people could be invited."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 477885,
      "EditedText": "There will not be any objections here, obviously—Laughter. I would not want to speak for the whole Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 477887,
      "EditedText": "We seem to be tying ourselves in knots. We should consider which recommendations are contentious, which are non-contentious and then decide how to approach them if we agree that there are no political issues. Local government is not just about COSLA—the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers, Unison and various other people have an interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 477889,
      "EditedText": "No—that is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 477891,
      "EditedText": "As long as we are kept advised about what is going on, before the public are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 477893,
      "EditedText": "There is a slight problem, which was raised earlier. The McIntosh commission did not know whether there was going to be a Local Government Committee when it made the recommendations. Does the third recommendation need to be broadened so that it includes the role of the Local Government Committee, as well as that of ministers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 477896,
      "EditedText": "We agree in principle. The recommendation should be extended. The fourth recommendation says: \"Legislation should be introduced to provide councils with a statutory power of general competence.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 477897,
      "EditedText": "We obviously believe that that should be the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 477899,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that, and I imagine that the committee is generally supportive of the recommendation. One of the points that the Accounts Commission made outside this meeting—as you did, convener—was that part of the way to answer the Executive is to build up the picture of the areas in which local government would want to use those powers. That might be highlighted to the Executive, to reassure it. We should flag that up as an issue around which there might be some debate, and invite specific representations on it. Also, as Johann said, we should raise it with the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 477901,
      "EditedText": "Is this contentious or is it not? I think not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C477902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 477902,
      "EditedText": "Politically it is, in as much as we would not support it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 477908,
      "EditedText": "So we would have COSLA, to represent the councils?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 477910,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to write, or do you want to have them in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 477912,
      "EditedText": "Any dissent to having them in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 477913,
      "EditedText": "Certainly not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 477919,
      "EditedText": "That is why we need to go through the recommendations line by line, as I said at the beginning. There will not be many areas where we will be able to say, \"That's fine. We can go with that,\" without more information. We need to prioritise because the clerks will have to organise committee agendas and invite people to speak to us if we do not want written information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 477920,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps a better way to make progress would be to say that local government finance is a big issue for the committee, rather than simply to accept the recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 477923,
      "EditedText": "That might be part of your own recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 477924,
      "EditedText": "It is fairly obvious that an independent inquiry is needed, and I have not met anyone in local government who says otherwise. Although there might be a big argument about the outcome, we should instigate such an inquiry, which is what everyone in local government wants us to do. Before today, I did not think that that proposal would be contentious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 477928,
      "EditedText": "Johann and I are not ruling out an independent inquiry. We agreed at a previous meeting that we would begin to look at local government finance as a whole. The Minister for Finance, Jack McConnell, will be at our next meeting. As Johann says, the matter is contentious—Jack McConnell is coming because we want to investigate further. It is not to say that we will not have an independent review at some point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C477929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 477929,
      "EditedText": "The matter is certainly contentious, because we agree with the Executive. An independent review would create too much turmoil at present, but the committee should look at finance. An independent review would bring about too many changes in local government after all the turmoil that it has experienced in the past couple of years. At this stage, the Executive's line on the matter is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 477932,
      "EditedText": "In our discussions with ministers, which might extend to our meeting with Ms Alexander, we should try to persuade them to have an independent review or at least understand their reasons for not having one. They might persuade us that it is not a good idea. If the Executive will not have an independent review, we can discuss what form of review—if any—to set up. It is a three-stage process, but we have to talk to ministers robustly first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 477933,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly what I was going to say. You are right—McIntosh recommends an independent inquiry. Arthur Midwinter, the chief executives, the unions and COSLA have all said the same thing to us. However, for parity, we have to listen to what Jack and Wendy say. I do not expect Jack to say, \"Don't worry. We're going to do this, this and this and everything will be fine,\" but at least he will have the opportunity to put his position—and his reason for it—to the committee. The same goes for Wendy. We will ensure that we look at that specifically in the agenda that follows. We will have a thoroughgoing discussion among ourselves, or with anybody else whom we wish to invite. We can then decide whether to look at the matter in more depth, or to recommend an independent inquiry in our report. We need to give everybody the chance to come and tell us some good news, but do not hold your breath. We are agreed that that is how we will proceed with that recommendation.The next recommendation is: \"The option of transfer to local government should always be considered in any review of other bodies delivering public services; and likewise where new services are developed, prior consideration should always be given to whether local government should be their vehicle, subject to consideration of efficiency and cost effectiveness.\"That is about best value."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 477941,
      "EditedText": "Michael McMahon has suggested that there should be a review, and Bristow says that perhaps we should conduct it. Are there any other views?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 477942,
      "EditedText": "There certainly should be a review. What I am not sure about is how many of the points are covered by the committee that is chaired by Mr Kerley. We do not want to duplicate his work, so we may want to let that committee get on with it. It is certainly considering a four-year term, but I do not know whether it is dealing with electronic voting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 477947,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem at all with item 7. Johann, Michael and Bristow are right in saying that we want to make recommendations, but I do not believe that there are any real points of contention. We need to discuss how the recommendations can be implemented in practical terms. We certainly want a four-year term, but I agree that the second part of item 8 might be more contentious. However, we accept what the McIntosh report recommends."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 477948,
      "EditedText": "On 14 September, the Sunday Herald reported:\"Scottish ministers will this week announce plans to cancel the next council elections in a bid to ensure that more people do vote when they eventually take place.\"That is not very good English, is it? It goes on:\"The executive plans to hold council ballots on the same day as votes for the Scottish parliament, with the next one in May 2003, a year after it was originally planned.\"If the reporter has got it right, he must have done the work—or the Sunday Herald must have done the work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 477953,
      "EditedText": "I could not hear; did you say that elections should be held at separate times?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C477954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 477954,
      "EditedText": "Separate times—local elections on local issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 477957,
      "EditedText": "Kenny has made a good point about how items 7, 8, 9 and the others are linked. It is worth exploring this a wee bit further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 477958,
      "EditedText": "On voting on local government issues, I think that we underestimate people's ability to distinguish between the two sets of elections. I observed at the count after the recent elections that some areas voted for me in the Scottish Parliament elections but voted for an SNP councillor in the council elections. People were able to distinguish between the two sets of elections and to vote for individual candidates. The biggest argument for holding elections on the same day is that it is far more likely to result in a bigger turnout because of the media coverage and the party campaigning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 477964,
      "EditedText": "Does everyone agree that there should be a four-year term?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 477966,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that anyone favours a three-year term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 477968,
      "EditedText": "I agree that a four-year term would allow for long-term planning in the local authority. I also agree with Donald Gorrie's comment that we should find out what is within Kerley's remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 477971,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with the procedure, but I hope that we can review it. If we are restricted, that may not turn out to be a particularly productive way of pursuing a minister on individual questions. We must all agree a process, but I understand that you want to set a pattern, convener. The questions are so formalised in Parliament that it is almost like a garrotte. I think that we should see how things work, but we might be happier if members could pursue a line of questioning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 477972,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that. Today, the presentations were slightly longer than I had hoped. We should learn from that. Three people were giving presentations, so we ran out of time. My proposal is intended to allow everyone to contribute. I agree that members should be allowed to pursue an issue. However, I do not want members to leave the meeting feeling that they did not have the chance to ask their question because a previous questioner had been making a speech."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 477975,
      "EditedText": "I take on board what Johann said. I felt that I could have asked a load of questions. Now that we have met representatives of the Accounts Commission, we will know better how long is required. There are some aspects of the Scotland Act 1998 which prevent the Scottish Parliament from examining in detail council tax fraud and housing benefit fraud, for example. I wanted to ask a number of questions on it, but I was restricted to one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 477976,
      "EditedText": "As I said, we have the opportunity to ask people to come back. I would be interested in doing that if there were particular issues that members wanted to pursue. I thank members for their attendance. It has been a productive morning and we will meet again next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 477875,
      "EditedText": "In all instances, we should be the first people to whom those issues come for discussion. We should put  forward our recommendations thereafter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 477886,
      "EditedText": "On page 15 of the McIntosh report, issues are raised about the role of the Local Government Committee. We might want to come back to the issue. While it might be non-contentious, we might need to consider the parliamentary side and how it is selected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 477890,
      "EditedText": "Questions arise from the second recommendation, such as: who will select the parliamentary side of the joint conference? Will members of the Local Government Committee be chosen, or is it a matter for the Parliament to decide? However, we do not think that the recommendation is contentious.Is that agreed? It is agreed.The third recommendation is:\"A formal working agreement should be established between local government and the Scottish Ministers\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 477894,
      "EditedText": "Fair point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 477898,
      "EditedText": "The thrust of all the briefings that we received was that that should happen, but the Executive has asked for further consultation. There might be some contention, depending on what members of the committee feel. Remember that we asked to meet the ministers to establish the grounds for their unease; what the Accounts Commission for Scotland said this morning was interesting. There is another side to things. I do not know whether that makes it contentious, but the matter will not be resolved immediately, especially as it has gone out for further consultation. We need to know what the timetable is for that consultation. We could raise that with the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C477900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 477900,
      "EditedText": "We feel that there is adequate provision in existing legislation to do most of those things anyway. We would like more evidence on what local councils would like to do—what we could expect them to do—before we are convinced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 477906,
      "EditedText": "Councils might be surprised when they find out just what their powers are at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 477915,
      "EditedText": "Many people would find that contentious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 477916,
      "EditedText": "The Executive might find the proposal contentious, but I know that that view is not shared by members of the committee, by the SOLACE, by COSLA and by Unison. We believe that there should be an immediate review, which would also give the Executive an opportunity to explain in great detail the strictures under which it is working. Perhaps the results of such a review might be more contentious than having the review in the first place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 477917,
      "EditedText": "The report recommends an independent inquiry, which it would not be if we were involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 477922,
      "EditedText": "I am trying to say that, by considering the whole area of local government finance, we can return to the question whether an independent inquiry is needed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 477926,
      "EditedText": "I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 477927,
      "EditedText": "I would hate to predict the outcome of an argument with the Executive. The committee could examine the matter, but the reason for an independent inquiry—rather than anything else—is that McIntosh perceived that the public believe that it is better not to have too many politicians looking at such matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 477930,
      "EditedText": "I support the committee having a look at the issue. It is a little bizarre that in some cases we complain that too many independent reviews are being set up that are outwith our remit, while in the one area in which one has not been set up, we want to set one up.We should raise the issues with the Executive first, and ask it to explain why it does not wish to have a review—whether independent or within the remit of the Parliament. The committee is well able to take evidence from interested parties and, following that, to try to promote a particular point of view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 477931,
      "EditedText": "We are saying that it should be an independent review because that will reflect the views of McIntosh and people in local government. We want to represent the views of local government on the issue. That is why we take the view that an independent inquiry should be instituted—if Jack is coming on Tuesday, we should be able to put that to him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 477934,
      "EditedText": "Efficiency and cost-effectiveness are not neutral terms. We should recognise that we are asking local government to do something quite complex. It would be interesting to consult practitioners who have developed best value, to find out how complex the process is. Achieving cost-effectiveness may go beyond the remit of local government because the process concerns the well-being of communities. If we have a social inclusion agenda, the process should go beyond crude pound signs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 477937,
      "EditedText": "As there is some concern about the terms efficiency and cost-effectiveness and their effect on communities, could we have it on the record that we will return to this subject? There is a concern that stock transfer, for example, may not depend on efficiency and cost-effectiveness. The community aspect has been raised, too, and perhaps it is not well represented by the terms efficiency and cost-effectiveness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 477938,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with that.The next group of recommendations, item 7, concerns electing the council. It begins:\"The rules and arrangements for conduct of local elections should be reviewed, with the general aim of simplifying procedures for the public and improving access (66) and with particular reference to-A rolling electoral registerMore accessible polling placesWider and easier access to postal votingElectronic voting.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 477944,
      "EditedText": "He is dealing with how to get better councillors and the question of four-year terms and whether they should coincide with parliamentary terms. I am not sure whether he would be considering postal voting; perhaps we should clarify that. I am all for having a review, but I do not think that we should duplicate the work of another committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 477949,
      "EditedText": "We are discussing something that was in the papers three days ago. As I have said, this will end up making the committee a laughing stock. We are getting not the cherry picking, but the dismantling of McIntosh. We will end up with something that is not related to the document that we debated on 2 July."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C477951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 477951,
      "EditedText": "We will support anything that will increase the number of people voting. We agree with item 7 but, on item 8, we believe that local elections should be held at a different time to the Scottish Parliament elections; that is contentious, but I think that the SNP agrees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 477952,
      "EditedText": "We agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 477959,
      "EditedText": "I agree. People seemed to vote how they wished. Voters understood the ballot papers much better than officials knew how to count them.We have some differing opinions. How do members wish to pursue this? Shall we ask Neil McIntosh to come back to give us the reasons for his recommendation, shall we invite someone else or shall we discuss it ourselves?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 477962,
      "EditedText": "It is clear that having two ballots together is not a disincentive. The evidence is that it improved the turnout for the local government election. However, we will need to determine whether people were confused about what they were voting on. We would not vote only every four years, as Kenny suggested. There are also the Westminster and the European elections to be fitted in. I am open-minded on the issue as I know that there are a variety of views at the local level. There will also be a variety of views in the parties about how they manage their campaigns, but that is a separate issue. We should examine ways of increasing voter turnout and we should improve the scrutiny of those who stand for election. However, the evidence on holding elections on the same day is that the confusion is not as great as we thought."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 477963,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, the issue is contentious. How do we resolve the contention in this committee? We have agreed to speak to people about electoral reform and we should wait until we have listened to evidence from many more organisations before we continue. We should let it be known that we will deal with the issue soon and that we will be gathering information until then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 477967,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a problem with four-year terms, but we might discover problems when we consult people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C477977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 477977,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:28."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 477970,
      "EditedText": "The next section of our discussion is on the electoral system, about which Richard Kerley is concerned. He has e-mailed me to say that he would like to speak to me—I assume that he will accept an invitation to talk to the committee.I will take a minute to sum up. The issues of the election of the council, the electoral system and how long councils should be elected for are all linked. We seem to be agreed that we need more information. I will discuss that with the clerks and create an agenda.We will invite the widest range of people that we can and get as much information as possible. Party splits—if I can say that—are involved, as are, in some ways, personal splits. I take Bristow's point that a four-year term for local government might be good for planning and so on. We may agree on some things and not on others. I suggest that we close today's business slightly early, if we are allowed to do that, and pick it up next week. We are having Jack along next week and we know what we have to ask him—members should come prepared with their questions. I will stick to the same procedure of offering members one question and one supplementary. I want to put a warning shot across members' bows. Some members were asking rather long questions today; I let them off this time, but I will not do so next week. We need to go for the jugular with Jack—do not quote me on that. It should be short and sharp."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 477974,
      "EditedText": "I will give you that, Kenny. The answers were all in three if not four parts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C477870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12919,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12919,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 477870,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:42"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12919,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12919,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 477871,
      "EditedText": "I apologise to the public for the fact that the committee is running late. This morning we had a private meeting with the Accounts Commission for Scotland. As it was interesting, and as there were many questions, we overran our time. We now proceed to the part of the agenda that pertains to the public meeting. We will examine the recommendations of the McIntosh report, and attempt to put them into categories: the non-contentious ones, if there are any, and the ones about which we think we need more information for debate. We will also discuss how we should go about that. We have 40 minutes, as I think that we should be gathering our bits and pieces by around 12.25. I suspect that we will not manage to discuss the report in its entirety today, but there is a space for it in next week's agenda. We can start with that discussion next week, when we meet in the afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 477874,
      "EditedText": "Does anybody object to the principle of the agreement? No. We have established the principle, but the question stands: who actually drafts it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 477879,
      "EditedText": "In the interests of progressing the matter on the basis of equality with local government, we might want to speak to the appropriate people—presumably COSLA—so that we arrive at a consensual view on how to manage the process. I do not want us to take total ownership of developing the ground rules for the covenant, as we are trying to ensure that we work together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 477882,
      "EditedText": "Who would select the parliamentarians?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 477884,
      "EditedText": "Are there any objections to that suggestion, although it is extra work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 477888,
      "EditedText": "I agree, although it is fair enough for members to comment on how they wish to progress the matter. Colin, did you wish to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 477892,
      "EditedText": "Therein lies the problem. Do any members have a problem with that recommendation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 477895,
      "EditedText": "So there is a triangular agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 477903,
      "EditedText": "Well, that is all right then; it is contentious. Laughter. There you are—there's a quick reaction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 477904,
      "EditedText": "There are always two sides to a coin. As was said this morning, councils have a lot of power within existing law—they might even have the power for which they are asking. Perhaps it is down to how individual councils use it and how much they are aware of it. It might become a contentious issue because some members of the committee might not support it, but we definitely need more information. One way to get that is by speaking to the minister, but we must also speak to councils. They must give us examples of where, if they had had the power of general competence, it would have made a difference in the delivery of service. Therefore, we need more information and the issue might be contentious as we have a dissenter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 477905,
      "EditedText": "Local authorities might not have a list of areas in which they would want to be involved if that was implemented—it is almost a chicken-and-egg situation. People might not think about it because they might be concerned that it is ultra vires. Further consultation might be a wise step, although we are in favour of a power of general competence. It would help the debate if people knew in more detail why we were going down this road."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 477907,
      "EditedText": "Could we invite Mr McIntosh to gives us his arguments, as well as COSLA? The commission was obviously convinced of the need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 477909,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It would move things on if we wrote to both McIntosh and COSLA and asked for arguments on the recommendation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 477911,
      "EditedText": "Have them in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 477914,
      "EditedText": "At this rate, the inquiry will take us five years. Laughter. Some of us have only four years. The fifth recommendation in the Executive Summary states:\"An independent inquiry into local government finance should be instituted immediately\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 477918,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether going through the recommendations saying which are contentious and which non-contentious is the best approach. Although we have to know the elements of the report with which we agree, we need more information about certain matters before we can decide on the contentiousness of a recommendation—even though we might be clear in our own minds about that. We are still inviting people to brief us on and provide evidence about such aspects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 477921,
      "EditedText": "But the committee needs to decide how to deal with McIntosh's recommendations. I do not think that the Executive would have a problem with the committee investigating all aspects of local government finance. However, McIntosh recommends an independent inquiry, which we would not be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 477925,
      "EditedText": "It is clearly a contentious issue if the Executive has said that it does not want such an inquiry. Although we could agree on a whole range of issues, we might be the only people to do so and organisations and bodies external to the committee might still find such views contentious.At our previous meeting, we agreed that the first stage of our debate about an independent inquiry should be to establish why the Executive has set its face against it. I would be interested in weighing the conclusions of that discussion against the heavy evidence, both from the committee and from bodies that briefed us, in favour of an independent inquiry.We have agreed that that is the first stage. We have to deal with what we are told after we have had the discussion with the Executive. The committee clearly takes a view. If we had a unanimous view that was different from that of the Executive, it would be contentious, because it would involve the relationship between the committees, the Parliament and the Executive. That is one of the big issues that has come out of the McIntosh report, and people cannot just say, \"Och yes, that's nice,\" when the Executive says one thing and all the other bodies say something different. Our first stage should be to engage in firm dialogue with the Executive and then decide what we will do next. Clearly, it will be one of the big issues for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 477935,
      "EditedText": "Such points will be raised when we start taking evidence from councils and other bodies. In principle, however, may I take it that we do not have a great problem with this recommendation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 477936,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that this recommendation is designed to ensure that local government is considered as the vehicle for services. If a social inclusion agenda were being considered, we would want to try to ensure that local government is considered as a possible vehicle for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 477939,
      "EditedText": "Having a review of the rules and arrangements is not contentious, but the outcome may be. Should we consider the likely outcomes, or just accept that there should be a review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 477940,
      "EditedText": "This is a major subject and the committee should get involved in it. There are two sides to this argument and we will be coming to the other one—electoral systems—shortly. When it comes to electing a council and getting more people to take part in local democracy, nobody would object to any drive towards improving turnouts by simplifying the system or improving access to it.The committee has a strong role to play in examining the various ideas behind which people can unite. There are some ideas that people may be reluctant to consider, but we should take the lead in considering ideas and hearing evidence about which ones are likely to be most beneficial and which ones are likely to be problematic.We should consider that in conjunction with item 8—the question when and how often council elections should take place. I advocate a move to four-year terms for councils, but the question then arises whether those elections should take place on the same day as the elections for the Scottish Parliament or mid term. There are many views on the issue, but I think that the committee should consider those two items together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 477943,
      "EditedText": "Mr Kerley is examining electoral systems, but not the mechanics of getting more people to vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 477945,
      "EditedText": "Item 7 contains many practical suggestions on electing councils. I assume that somebody is beavering away to produce a paper that could be the basis of a review, rather than our having to do everything. If somebody is developing that work, we could comment on it and add to it.One thing that should be considered in a review is the fact that groups can be disproportionately excluded. There is evidence, for example, that black and ethnic minority communities are more likely to be excluded, as are people in multi-occupancy flats. We need to bear those things in mind when considering the extent of the franchise.We cannot possibly instigate all these reviews ourselves and write them up. Someone else—a civil servant at the Scottish Executive—must progress the non-contentious recommendations, before we see the results of those reviews and comment on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 477946,
      "EditedText": "Some of those questions will be answered in Wendy Alexander's report on the McIntosh commission later in September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 477950,
      "EditedText": "We can certainly take that up with the ministers, Frank McAveety and Wendy Alexander, when they come here. You have a point.Do members want to comment on items 7 and 8 together or separately?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 477955,
      "EditedText": "It seems that there is a group act on this question, but I have reservations. The enthusiasm that arose because the elections for councils and for the Scottish Parliament were held on the same day could be compared with the low turnout for the European elections, which were held later. We could find that not as many people turn out if we hold local and Scottish Parliament elections separately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 477956,
      "EditedText": "Surely, if we get the issues in item 7 right, the factors under item 8 will not be important. Other countries in Europe that have local elections and national or regional elections on separate days have much higher turnouts than we do even for Westminster elections. As McIntosh suggests, elections should be held midway between parliamentary elections so that people—as Keith rightly said—vote on local government issues, and do not go to vote on something else only to notice another ballot paper or two that they feel duty-bound to fill in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 477960,
      "EditedText": "It would be interesting to consult people within local government and at a Scottish level. Views on this are almost instinctive. My impression was that holding elections on the same day improved local government turnouts because parliamentary elections had a higher profile. People may have been able to focus on the fact that there were different layers of government, but that there was partnership as well. Equally, there may be an argument that holding elections on the same day confused people. Neil McIntosh has stated his view; it would be interesting to know how he came to it, but it would also be interesting to know what other people think."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 477961,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to re-invent the wheel. We should examine how other countries in Europe achieve high turnouts. The issues that are covered in annexe A of the Executive's summary of the McIntosh report will help us to achieve a higher turnout than we had at the previous local elections.Having people vote once every four years is not particularly democratic. From the article that I read in the Sunday Herald, I know that the Executive thinks that voting more than seven times in 12 years will be onerous for people. However, reducing the number of opportunities to vote is not the way in which to get people to participate in democracy. I do not agree that the public were as informed as folk think. The Scottish Office advertisements did not mention the fact that there was a local government election: two ballots were advertised on television and folk found out that there were three only when they went into the polling station."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 477965,
      "EditedText": "That might come out in discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 477969,
      "EditedText": "In our informal briefing, someone suggested that we should examine the electoral system. One suggestion was that a certain number of councillors would be elected in the middle of the four-year period but would serve for four years. The idea was that that would help continuity. However, it might be worth pursuing the variations on that model."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2696
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12920,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 12920,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 477973,
      "EditedText": "To be fair to those asking the questions, including me, I do not think that we expected the answers to be as long as they were."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7512,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7512,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 284233,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/32)",
      "HeadingID": 7513,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7513,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 284237,
      "EditedText": "It is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 284240,
      "EditedText": "If we want to debate the matter, we need to call people who can answer your question. I cannot give you that answer, and we must therefore call another meeting to debate the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 284241,
      "EditedText": "Can I suggest that, when we are to consider Scottish statutory instruments, we tell the Executive that we need to get them at least 10 to 14 days beforehand? Once we are in committee, it is too late to lodge a motion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 284242,
      "EditedText": "I totally agree. I think that it is unacceptable that the committee should have to function in this way. Mary Scanlon has raised a legitimate point. If circumstances were different, we would all want to raise a lot of questions about the instruments. Our feelings will be made known and the matter will be brought up with the Executive and with the Procedures Committee. We need the time to call meetings if we want to hear evidence. It is unacceptable to have SSIs placed before us at such short notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 284246,
      "EditedText": "Mary's question on the reason for banning food from Belgium, but not from France or Holland, is valid. If we close the meeting now without reaching a decision on the statutory instrument, and agree to meet again with a more competent agenda and a clearer, more precise timetable, we can study this matter. If we continue this meeting, we cannot raise this question except through parliamentary questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 284248,
      "EditedText": "Why is the time scale so inflexible? I agree entirely with Ben. What leeway is there to move the time scale that has been set? It is not a sustainable position for this committee to agree that it needs to consider matters properly with the facts before it, but to turn a blind eye to these particular instruments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 284250,
      "EditedText": "I agree entirely with Margaret Jamieson in principle, but that is part of the new process. These statutory instruments were laid before the UK Parliament, as the issue arose before the Scottish Parliament assumed its powers. We are annulling an instrument that the UK Parliament introduced. That will not recur in future. We should pass these regulations, because if we do not, Scotland alone will continue to ban Belgian food for a prolonged period. Scotland will be out of step with the rest of the UK and—for all I know—with the rest of Europe.In principle I agree that we need to make it clear to the Executive that in future we need a proper timetable so that we can consider such matters in detail. However, I think that we should nod this instrument through. As far as the Belgian and United Kingdom Governments and the European Commission are concerned, the Belgian situation has been solved. If we were to continue to ban Belgian foods, it could lead to rather a nice little altercation between us and Belgium, which I do not imagine any of us wants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 284256,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on the points made by Richard and Ben. It may be rather alarming to realise this, but the Executive has the power over statutory instruments. The orders have already been implemented. We do not need to approve them before that can be done. We, therefore, can use the whole 40 days. I back Ben's suggestion that all statutory instruments of relevance to this committee should be sent to us immediately they are laid. People on the committee will then be in a position to raise points and move motions against them. We should ask the Executive why we have to report by 29 September. We have 40 days. Given that the order is already in force, why can we not use all 40 days?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 284257,
      "EditedText": "We will ask the Executive that. Jennifer will clarify the matter for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 284265,
      "EditedText": "We need to be very careful—this is not the only committee of which I am a member and this is certainly not the only subject in which I am interested. We also need to be mindful of the staff, as they have other committees to serve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 284266,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate what a frantic time the lunch break can be. I meant that we should be available to meet then if the matter was urgent. We would rather know than be brushed aside or wait until our next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No.2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/50)",
      "HeadingID": 7517,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 7517,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 284277,
      "EditedText": "Item 5 is another amnesic shellfish poisoning order that seeks an extension of the area in west coast waters. We have already debated the matter at some length.The committee recommends that the order be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 284281,
      "EditedText": "That is my understanding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 284282,
      "EditedText": "I know that the parties have different opinions on the beef-on-the-bone ban, but we all accept that it is a health issue. If there were to be a vote, it would be about health, and the Health and Community Care Committee should do the voting. Our remit is to study and to protect the health of the people of Scotland. If we went along to the Rural Affairs Committee and it voted on a health issue, that would be back to front."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 284283,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the Rural Affairs Committee has invited the chief medical officer to give the committee members information on the beef-on-the-bone situation. We asked for a clarification of the committee's remit, and were told that its invitation had been couched in such a way that it fell within its remit. The Rural Affairs Committee is perfectly at liberty to invite him. The question for us is not what that committee has done—because it has not done anything wrong—but whether we want to go along to its meeting and take part, or whether we want to invite the chief medical officer to this committee so that we can talk to him about beef on the bone and so that we can vote on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 284287,
      "EditedText": "Beef on the bone is clearly a health issue. In the context of today's discussion, it is an issue that will be for the food standards agency. The food standards agency relates to the Health and Community Care Committee, not to the Rural Affairs Committee; and I think that the clerks have got it wrong. That is not to say that the Rural Affairs Committee cannot call the chief medical officer. This is an opportunity to test our systems properly: at the beginning of the meeting to which the chief medical officer has been invited, the two committees should sit together as a joint meeting. In that way, the chief medical officer would not have to waste his time by coming twice, and the interest that the members of the Rural Affairs Committee quite correctly have in this area—which is not to be denied—would be identified. We must not get into turf wars over whether we go to it or it comes to us. I do not care about that; what I care about is that this committee and the Rural Affairs Committee should jointly interview the chief medical officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 284292,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 284293,
      "EditedText": "None at all?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 284298,
      "EditedText": "Could you or the clerk make it clear, in your representation, that it is not within that committee's competence, if it were to lodge a motion, to vote on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 284302,
      "EditedText": "Can we agree that we should go along and take part on the basis that there will be no vote on that subject—that we will take part in an information-gathering exercise, and that in future, if the Rural Affairs Committee wants to examine anything that impacts on food safety, we would appreciate it if the matter were discussed with our convener beforehand, so that we could work together on such things more effectively?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 284303,
      "EditedText": "Are you suggesting that we should all go along?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 284306,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. If all committee members want to go along on 5 October, it is up to them. The invitation was sent to the committee. I made the suggestion that only some of us might want to go along simply because I thought that others might take the opportunity not to have an extra meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 284309,
      "EditedText": "We imagine that it will be 9.30 am on Tuesday 5 October. On the basis that it will be information gathering, that there will be no vote, and that all members of the Health and Community Care Committee who want to attend may comment and ask questions, we will attend that meeting. In future, if there is anything that impinges on food safety that the Rural Affairs Committee wants to discuss, we suggest that it might be more useful for the conveners of the committees to discuss the matter in advance. We will still be able to get the information from the chief medical officer on two important issues.There is no further business before us today, so I bring this meeting of the committee to a close."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 284310,
      "EditedText": "What is happening next week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 284314,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 284318,
      "EditedText": "We had an open invitation to both ministers to come and speak to us on a range of issues, as you know, but the minister is unavailable for some time. However, we have a meeting organised for the beginning of November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7512,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7512,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 284231,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:32"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7512,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7512,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 284234,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 284239,
      "EditedText": "If the feed has gone to farms in France and Holland, as well as to 416 Belgian farms, why are we banning only food from Belgium?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 284243,
      "EditedText": "I accept that and fully support what you are doing—I appreciate that we are working together and are all on a steep learning curve—but is there a process by which this question can be answered without referring it to further committee meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 284244,
      "EditedText": "The only way we can ask questions is to lodge parliamentary questions as individuals. You can lodge a parliamentary question on this or on any other issue in the background notes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 284245,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 284249,
      "EditedText": "I have a problem with this. We are nodding things through, but we have not had sufficient information to back up any decision. Mary has made a valid point—she has obviously had time to read the documents this morning, but I had to drive here.It is difficult, as we are involved in a new process. I am not prepared to agree to something without knowing the full facts. It is unacceptable that this committee has to operate in a vacuum and risks making a wrong decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 284251,
      "EditedText": "It would have been helpful if committee members had been made aware of that fact. I thank Richard for advising me of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 284258,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty with the 40-day period is that until we are designated the lead committee we do not know where the statutory instruments will be sent. Instruments have to be laid before Parliament before a decision can be taken on who is to consider them and—if more than one committee is to do that—which will be the lead committee. Part of the 40-day period is used up doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 284259,
      "EditedText": "The whole process seems incredibly cumbersome. It is certainly not satisfactory."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 284260,
      "EditedText": "All that needs to happen is for someone to pray against the instruments within 40 days. It does not matter if they go to three or four committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 284261,
      "EditedText": "Dorothy raised the issue of special meetings of the committee. She talked about a break—I assume that she meant the October recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 284268,
      "EditedText": "What exactly are we doing here? The clerk said that it is not in this committee's power to pass this legislation and that, therefore, it will come into effect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 284269,
      "EditedText": "The committee's task is to decide whether to agree that the attention of the Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 284270,
      "EditedText": "That involves our assessing whether the matter under consideration is sufficiently important to come before the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 284271,
      "EditedText": "The only other step that the committee can take is to consider a motion recommending that nothing further be done under the instrument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 284274,
      "EditedText": "It is all fun on this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No.2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/42)",
      "HeadingID": 7516,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ID": 7516,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 284276,
      "EditedText": "Item 4 is an amnesic shellfish poisoning order that seeks an extension of the area around the Orkney coast. This is not a negative instrument and we have to give it our approval. As we have debated similar instruments, we are not expected to go through the debate again.The committee recommends that the order be approved.I understand that there have been some questions about the drafting of items 1, 2 and 4. The committee clerk will follow up those concerns to make sure that we have a commencement date for each paper that comes before us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) Partial Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/49)",
      "HeadingID": 7518,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ID": 7518,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 284278,
      "EditedText": "Item 6 is a partial revocation of an amnesic shellfish poisoning instrument, which I am pleased to see. No doubt the fishermen will also be pleased.As the order is a negative instrument and no motion has been lodged, the committee recommends that the Parliament's attention need not be drawn to the instrument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 284279,
      "EditedText": "You will be happy to hear that we are moving out of the land of SSI and various foodstuffs into item 7, which concerns the clarification of the committee's remit. At our previous meeting, I said that the Rural Affairs Committee had invited the chief medical officer to speak to the committee about amnesic shellfish poisoning and the beef-on-the-bone ban and that the convener and clerk of the Rural Affairs Committee had asked whether members of this committee would be interested in attending the briefing. Members pointed out that this committee should be asking the chief medical officer about public health issues. I was prepared to be flexible at the beginning. Although it will take time for committees to find the best way of working together, that will be better for the Parliament in the long run. At the time, I suggested that the convener and the three party spokespeople could attend the briefing—although I am sure that the Rural Affairs Committee would have been happy for all members to attend.However, because of the debate caused, we have asked for a clarification of remit on this issue. As agenda item 7 says, the subject of the inquiry was entirely within the remit of the Rural Affairs Committee. However, members of this committee are welcome to attend and to ask questions of the chief medical officer, but will not be able to vote as it is a meeting of the Rural Affairs Committee. I understand that the briefing is an information-gathering exercise and that no motion will be involved.How does the committee wish to proceed? The Rural Affairs Committee will meet on 5 October, and we are invited. The head of the committee office has clarified that it is within that committee's remit to talk to the chief medical officer. We could go along and take part, we could ignore the invitation, or we could ask the chief medical officer to come to talk to us on another occasion. However, that would be a waste of his time, frankly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 284280,
      "EditedText": "You say that there is to be no vote during that Rural Affairs Committee—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 284286,
      "EditedText": "So far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 284291,
      "EditedText": "Earlier, Jennifer outlined the system by which a statutory instrument should progress, telling us where it would go and when, who it would go to, and what would be done. She mentioned the lead committee. Is there some doubt about whether the Health and Community Care Committee is the lead committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 284295,
      "EditedText": "I am worried by the wording of the clarification of whether extending an invitation to the chief medical officer to speak about beef on the bone was within the remit of the Rural Affairs Committee. The clarification states that the invitation was on a matter\"entirely within the remit of the Rural Affairs Committee.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 284297,
      "EditedText": "Food safety falls entirely within this committee's remit. Members of the Rural Affairs Committee should not examine anything to do with food safety. However, they can gather information concerning their own remit from anyone they choose. We understand that they have invited the chief medical officer so that he can give them an informed view of how to tackle their own remit. There is no cross-over remit—this committee has food safety and the Rural Affairs Committee does not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 284299,
      "EditedText": "The matter is not \"entirely within the remit\" of that committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 284301,
      "EditedText": "It is such a major issue that a lot of us would like to hear that question and answer session. Only if it came to a vote might we have problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 284304,
      "EditedText": "I am mindful of the fact that committee members have an awful lot on their plates. My suggestion was that I and the three spokespeople should attend. If the rest of the committee wants to attend as well, I do not mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 284305,
      "EditedText": "The committee should decide that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 284308,
      "EditedText": "At what time will the meeting take place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 284311,
      "EditedText": "We will examine more statutory instruments. If you feel the need to take a holiday, that would be a good day on which to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 284315,
      "EditedText": "Can we also look at how we are going to plan our work? Are we going to meet fortnightly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 284319,
      "EditedText": "But she said at the end of our previous meeting that she would present something within a few weeks. The issue of the children's hospitals in Glasgow and Edinburgh is the big one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 284324,
      "EditedText": "This issue has been debated at previous meetings. We have also commented on it today. My comments are easily understood: this committee will not examine the issue. You have the right to lodge a parliamentary question. If you want to debate an item that is not on this agenda, please let me know in writing in advance of the meeting and we will then debate it, but do not debate an issue by bringing it up in the middle of a meeting.This meeting is closed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 284325,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 10:39."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7512,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7512,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 284232,
      "EditedText": "This morning we have a number of food issues to discuss, which is interesting, given that this afternoon in Parliament we will be debating the food standards agency. Some extra items have been added to our agenda at fairly short notice, so I hope that we can be patient with each other as we work our way through them. I believe that this is the first time that any of the committees of the Parliament has had to consider how to deal with this type of statutory instrument. I therefore propose to adjourn the committee—after only a minute—so that we can have a private briefing on how we should proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7512,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7512,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 284235,
      "EditedText": "I have received apologies from Irene Oldfather and Hugh Henry, who will not be joining us this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/32)",
      "HeadingID": 7513,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 7513,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 284236,
      "EditedText": "Item 1 on the agenda is a negative instrument and we are expected only to note it; no motion has been lodged, so we have nothing to debate. Are we agreed that the attention of Parliament need not be drawn to this instrument?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 284238,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 is another negative instrument concerning animal feedingstuffs from Belgium. There is an explanatory note covering items 1 and 2 but, again, no motion has been lodged. I therefore recommend that the attention of Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 284247,
      "EditedText": "We are given time scales for Scottish statutory instruments. We have to report to Parliament on 29 September. To meet that deadline we will have to give information to the bureau by 23 September. Our next meeting is on 22 September, which is too late to allow us to prepare the report for the bureau. So, if this item is not considered at this meeting, we will have to call an additional meeting between now and 22 September. That is why members have had such short notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 284252,
      "EditedText": "Statutory instruments are laid before Parliament 40 days before they have to be passed. They should be with us the day they are laid. Forty days before 29 September was in mid-July, which was within our Parliament's competence. This instrument comes from a directive from the Council of Ministers. As Richard said, and from what I know from the European Committee, if we do not pass it we will find ourselves in court and we will be fined for being out of step with other European member states. In the future, Scottish statutory instruments should come to us on the first day so that we have 40 days in which to timetable them. I do not like the number of SSIs that are coming to us with only a few days before they become law."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 284253,
      "EditedText": "Again, I agree with Ben Wallace in principle. However, if we were to get a negative SSI on the fishing industry, for example, because laboratory tests showed that amnesic shellfish poisoning toxins had gone, it would be unacceptable to the fishermen if we had to wait 40 days to lift the instrument, because that is what the committee has decided. The mechanism has to be practical, but it must also allow us time. We need to seek advice on what that mechanism should be—I am not experienced enough. On some issues, though, we need to move as fast as we can, for the sake of those involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 284254,
      "EditedText": "We are—or should be—a flexible organisation. If there is yet another of these quasi-emergencies about food, we should be prepared to meet in the break and, within reason, to make ourselves available at very short notice, rather than cluttering up the committee. Last week, we did not really need to take up 1 hour 40 minutes of the most senior minister's time to talk about the shellfish ban when we all wanted to question her about the sick children's hospitals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 284255,
      "EditedText": "We had to look at that motion at the minister's request. The clerk has just pointed out to me that, although the Health and Community Care Committee may be seen as the lead committee, which will have to bring the instrument before Parliament, there may be issues that the Rural Affairs Committee and the European Committee will need to discuss within the 40 days. We are, therefore, only one of a number of committees that may need to consider the instrument within the 40 days. I will take that issue up as a matter of urgency with the head of the committee office. I will also speak to the Convener of the Procedures Committee and raise the matter at the conveners committee. It is important that we get the process right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 284262,
      "EditedText": "I was referring to the lunch break."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 284263,
      "EditedText": "We all have things to do during that time. I have yet to have a full lunch break."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 284264,
      "EditedText": "The same is true of me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 284267,
      "EditedText": "I understand the spirit in which Dorothy was suggesting that we give up our lunch hour, but we need this matter resolved, not only for our committee but for every committee of the Parliament. This is not the first time—nor will it be the last—that we have found that the working practices of the Parliament are cumbersome and do not serve this committee's best interests.I will argue very forcefully that something should be done about that. I will meet the head of the committee office and take up the issue with the Convener of the Procedures Committee. I will also raise it at the next meeting of the conveners committee. In that way we should be able to ensure that in future we have proper time to consider these issues. Mary's question was the tip of the iceberg—I am sure that all of us had some queries.However, I am mindful of what Richard said. On this occasion, I recommend that we note the instrument and no more, but I will do everything that I can to ensure that we are not put in this position again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 284272,
      "EditedText": "These regulations derive from a law that has already been passed. At issue is whether we want to question whether the regulations are fit and appropriate to that law, which Parliament has made. Sometimes the Executive has overlooked regulations or not thought them through properly. It is then that a motion should be lodged with the Parliament. The problem is that only an individual, not the committee, can do that. That means that, if we do not like the regulations, we must nominate an individual to lodge a motion at the chamber office so that it can be put before Parliament. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No.2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 7514,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ID": 7514,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 284273,
      "EditedText": "Someone would have to lodge a motion recommending that nothing further be done under the instrument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Spreadable Fats (Marketing Standards) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/24)",
      "HeadingID": 7515,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ID": 7515,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 284275,
      "EditedText": "Let us move to item 3, as I think that we have agreed items 1 and 2. This is another negative instrument. Again, no motion has been lodged, so I suggest that we agree that the attention of Parliament need not be drawn to the instrument. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 284284,
      "EditedText": "Our going along would set a dangerous precedent, and we should not set such a precedent. The issue clearly falls within the remit of this committee and we should speak to the chief medical officer here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 284285,
      "EditedText": "We have unanimity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 284288,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify whether the Rural Affairs Committee has competence to vote on the issue? If the chief medical officer goes to speak to the Rural Affairs Committee and the committee then proposes a motion on lifting the beef-on-the-bone ban, will that be ruled to be within the committee's competence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 284289,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the Rural Affairs Committee is simply gathering information to give it some background. I do not know whether the clerks have considered the possibility of having a joint meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 284290,
      "EditedText": "That was not suggested before, but we could look into it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 284294,
      "EditedText": "We are the lead committee. I will explain what happened. An approach was made to me by the Convener of the Rural Affairs Committee and the clerk, after a decision had been taken in that committee. Had the approach been made beforehand, I think that we would have investigated other options. However, the decision had already been taken. Although I felt that that was not the best way to do things, in the spirit of co-operation, and because our joint working arrangements have not yet been—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 284296,
      "EditedText": "Yes—Jennifer, can you explain that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 284300,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we should lose too much sleep over this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 284307,
      "EditedText": "In practice, anybody from the committee who wants to attend should be able to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 284312,
      "EditedText": "The Accounts Commission for Scotland has offered to give us a pre-publication briefing on its document on GP prescribing, on 22 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 284313,
      "EditedText": "That is a good idea, but can we use next week's meeting to flesh out what we decided last week? There is a properly scheduled meeting next Wednesday, so can we have an agenda item on fleshing out the community care inquiry and the work of individual groups? Will that be on the agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 284316,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It has been difficult. We have had odd meetings that have been slotted in. It would be nice to know how often we are going to meet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 284317,
      "EditedText": "Could we have the Minister for Health and Community Care or her deputy come to our next meeting to discuss the hospitals for sick children in Glasgow and Edinburgh? A decision is imminent, as she made clear at our previous meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 284320,
      "EditedText": "With respect, it is one of a number of issues. Last week, I tried to make the point that we could continually pick up local issues that each of us thinks are important. I appreciate that that one has a national impact, but it is of particular interest to local members. There is any number of issues that we could pursue. Margaret's point about trying to work out our work load is one we must grapple with.As for the minister, she will come before us again when we consider the Arbuthnott report and after we have taken evidence from other people. She will come to us in November to talk about a range of issues. Prior to that, we must work out what are the major issues that we want to ask her about. You are able, as are the rest of us, to lodge parliamentary questions on this and any other important issue. I think that that is the line that you would be best served taking, because the minister is not available to come to this committee and, frankly, if she were, every member of the committee would say, \"This is the big issue that we must look at.\"Although it seems on the face of it that it is unfortunate that we will not meet the minister until November, there is a benefit for us. By then, we will have had a chance to work through a number of the issues in our own minds and had time to consider what the committee feels are the important issues that we want to bring to the minister's attention. That is better than a knee-jerk reaction, demanding that we talk to her about one thing one week, and another the next. By the time we meet the minister in November, we should have a clear idea of what we consider to be the important strategic issues that we want to discuss with her."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 284321,
      "EditedText": "But as you will appreciate, just as in the quasi-emergency situation over shellfish, it is the pressure of time that is important in this matter. The minister is making a decision. We already know from Glasgow, and perhaps from Edinburgh, that quite a number of groups have been cut out of the consultation process on the sick children's hospitals. It is a matter of huge public concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 284322,
      "EditedText": "There is no notice of this item on the agenda. I have made my view on it known. As far as I am concerned this is an issue that you and anyone else is able to ask parliamentary questions on and you can write to the minister. I know that you have brought it to her attention. I and others have done so, too. The matter is in no way linked with our business today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1682
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit Clarification",
      "HeadingID": 7519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 7519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 284323,
      "EditedText": "No, I meant that because of the time scale she had to come before us soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3829177+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 3524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 155125,
      "EditedText": "Convener, David Davidson is hoping to join us later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 155133,
      "EditedText": "Let us look at the methodology paper, which gives us a feel for how we can operate. Then we can go on to the detailed discussions and come to some conclusions.Before we slot in the inquiry that we wish to have, one matter that I would like to have the committee's agreement on is the suggested work programme listed on page three, which proposes fortnightly meetings, the Highlands presentation and the objective of coming to some conclusion on the inquiry before the turn of the year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 155135,
      "EditedText": "Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 155137,
      "EditedText": "The committee controls its own work programme. What we have put together is one proposal that would see us completing an inquiry by the turn of the year. If the committee wants to conclude the first inquiry by Easter, it is within its control to do that.I would like to talk some more about the paper before we have a detailed dialogue about the issues that are involved. A number of issues must be borne in mind, some of which we have already touched on. It is my view, based on what the minister said to us, that it is unlikely that we will have to allocate any time to consider legislation. Inquiry time is therefore at our discretion and disposal. Most of the activity in the minister's departmental area will probably relate to Executive action. There may therefore be no legislation in either year 1 or year 2, but the Executive can advise us about that.The conveners group has made it clear that a certain amount of material will be referred to the committee from other sources. Some of that may be in the form of European directives referred to us by the European Committee, and public representations referred to us by the Public Petitions Committee. The convener of the Public Petitions Committee has made it clear that he wants other committees, so far as they are able, to give swift and prompt consideration to the petitions that are brought before the Parliament, and we want to respect that wish.Our primary work load, over the next year, will be non-legislative and we will be able to pursue inquiries at our discretion. We have scheduled a meeting on a Wednesday morning once a fortnight. The clerks have had some trouble slotting everything together to arrange that, fitting in with members' other commitments, so we do not have a great deal of room for manoeuvre to schedule additional hearings. I do not want to schedule hearings that will automatically disenfranchise members who cannot take part because of clashes, so we must be aware of those constraints. I have commented on whether we should conduct large or small inquiries; the committee must decide that. In our work so far, in the private session to hear representations from various organisations and the in the public hearing with the minister a fortnight ago, we covered a very wide canvas. I was anxious to ensure that we touched on each of the policy areas for which the minister is responsible. That leaves us with the essential frustration that we may not have drilled in as much detail as we would have liked in areas of interest. Our inquiries must therefore become much more focused and specific, with the objective of delivering some clear policy guidance to the Parliament, to ministers and to the wider public.The other point about innovation arises from some comments that Annabel Goldie made at our first meeting. We must engage in dialogue with the wider community and take part in site visits to companies that may want to make representations to us. That will be an essential part of how we go about our business.One point that struck me at the outset of our discussions at the first meeting was that there is a danger that we may look at the whole policy area as comprising an enterprise work load in one compartment and a lifelong learning work load in another. The purpose of the formation of the enterprise and lifelong learning department is to challenge that compartmentalisation, to acknowledge the relationship between enterprise policy and lifelong learning and to work on those linkages. I am anxious to inquire into subjects that enable us to pursue those links in our discussions. We must avoid duplication on matters on which the Executive has triggered an inquiry. For example, the Executive is pursuing an inquiry on student finance, so there is no requirement for us to duplicate that. The Government is also reviewing the tourism sector, so again that is best left to the Government—there may be a role for us at a later stage in considering the formulation of the tourism strategy. The House of Commons Scottish Affairs Select Committee has also examined some issues recently; we may want to note some of its findings in our deliberations.We should select topics on which we can add value to the policy-making process in the Scottish Parliament.Page 3 of the first paper, on the methodology of the work programme, outlines the structure of the work load that we can undertake, with the objective of completing one inquiry by the turn of the year. The committee can decide whether that is a satisfactory work load. We will now have a discussion on the methodology."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 155138,
      "EditedText": "The paper is laid out effectively, to help us come to a decision on methodology. You have mentioned the major factors that will influence our decision. I accept that balance between the enterprise and the lifelong learning aspects of our role is important. If we find a subject that combines both, so much the better. I agree that it would be pointless to replicate the work of House of Commons select committees, Cubie and work that has been done on inward and outward investment. I hope that by the conclusion of our deliberations we will have made a difference, so it is important that we get our strategy right at the outset.The proposed work programme for us between now and mid-December seems satisfactory. Whether to have an additional meeting in the October recess was discussed at the European Committee. I would not rule out having a meeting in the second week of the October recess, if our work load makes that necessary.With the proviso of a possible additional meeting, should circumstances necessitate it, the work programme is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 155140,
      "EditedText": "We can debate whether to conclude in December, as that date was chosen arbitrarily."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 155142,
      "EditedText": "We will come back to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 155146,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 155149,
      "EditedText": "Let us take this as a case study. If we suspected that we might be able to be proactive on an issue and wanted information quickly, ought we to contact the minister, Scottish Enterprise or the local enterprise company? Who could we ask, to find out what is happening in their area and whether there has been a change in an industry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 155150,
      "EditedText": "There are two avenues. First, committee members could do it. Duncan, for example, could contact the clerks and raise with them the issue that he has raised here. We could also decide to write to the parties involved—the local enterprise company or the minister—to obtain quick information for the committee, which could be circulated.Secondly, we could build time into the structure of our meeting programme. We could, for example, spend the first two hours of each meeting dealing with our main line of inquiry, but keep an hour free to investigate topical issues that we think are relevant. Members could raise subjects that we might want to consider in slightly more depth. We could have a meeting at which representatives of the company, Scottish Enterprise or the local enterprise company involved appear and are questioned for half an hour. We would not be reaching conclusions, but providing an opportunity for material to reach the public domain in a more formal way and examining issues through questioning in committee. That would be a useful way of responding to some of the issues that get lost because we are concentrating on other matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 155155,
      "EditedText": "My point relates to what Duncan has said. It would be valuable to follow up this case. This industry is subject to a constant cycle of boom and bust. I read recently that there is now huge demand for microchips for PCs and other computers and that the price is rising. That is why many plants are increasing or going back into production, which will have a knock-on effect on the price of computer hardware.What this case demonstrates—and what this committee needs to be aware of—is the rate of change in the business world. We need to work out how that can best be responded to and how local and other companies can be supported to enable them to deal with it. Some of the changes are technological. Plants may be built to make something that is obsolete within 18 months. Getting in the investment to enable the plant to manufacture the next generation of the product can be quite difficult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 155157,
      "EditedText": "What sort of time scale are you suggesting? Would we need to give a minimum of a week's notice for an item to be included on the agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 155158,
      "EditedText": "The convener is indicating that we would undertake work outwith the committee cycle to provide members with what they ask for. That material would be copied to all members. I assume that members would need to give roughly a week's notice for an item to be included on the agenda, so that all members had a chance to read the papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 155159,
      "EditedText": "If we wanted to allocate an hour of our time every fortnight for a topical inquiry in which witnesses would appear before us, giving short notice would make it difficult for many of the people whom we want to see. On the other hand, there are many people who want to appear before the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 155167,
      "EditedText": "Thanks for that. Are there any other points on the methodology?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 155169,
      "EditedText": "I am in favour of taking the committee to venues outwith the Edinburgh-Glasgow-Inverness triangle. There are two islands in my constituency that would be suitable, and the isle of Arran combines the highlands and the islands in one place. However, in the first instance, I favour the Inverness option for holding a public inquiry, as that is more easily accessible. Thinking back to when I was involved in other organisations, I suggest that competitive tendering would be a good idea. A lot of organisations are anxious to meet us and they might be prepared to make a contribution to the cost of our going to see them. That would minimise the cost to the taxpayer. There are a number of options, as Duncan said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 155173,
      "EditedText": "I am not going to Millport. If we have a clearly defined reason for travelling and the public understands why we are there, nobody will ask about the money. We should not kid ourselves that the public will be hammering at the door to get a look at us. Think of how many folk went to visit the Scottish Grand Committee when it went on peripatetic wanderings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 155176,
      "EditedText": "I seek agreement from the committee that we make approaches to the conveners committee and the Parliamentary Bureau to make that visit at a convenient time—ideally in the second week of the October recess—and that we arrange meetings with the organisations that have made representations to us. Is that agreed? It is agreed.The next paper before us is on potential subjects for inquiry. In compiling it, the clerks and I considered all the issues that have been raised by members of the committee, by external organisations, by other members of Parliament and by the minister in his discussions with the committee. I do not plan to go through each point in great detail as they are fairly self-explanatory. On Executive rapid response, we have had representations from, for example, shop stewards at Kvaerner about the situation during the summer—although the situation has improved since then. We have had representations from Clackmannanshire Council and the members of the Parliament—Nick Johnston, George Reid and Richard Simpson—who have been involved in the difficult economic circumstances in the area during the summer. We have put those issues in the context of economic dislocation, through either the loss of individual plants or the concentration of difficulties in an area. Ten years ago, when I gathered my experience of the economic development sphere, area economic development strategies were in vogue for dealing with such problems. Those strategies have become unfashionable now, but I wonder whether there might be some merit in them.On the fourth point in the paper, Nick Johnston has suggested that the co-ordination and performance of economic development services in Scotland should be considered in terms of the effectiveness of the local enterprise companies structure.The committee has discussed tourism, which is the fifth point. The minister is leading a consultation exercise on tourism strategy. There is a question about whether now is the appropriate time for this committee to become involved, given the recent select committee report from the House of Commons and given that a tourism strategy paper is due to be published at the turn of the year. We might want to become involved at that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 155177,
      "EditedText": "Tourism is important. I would like us to have a specific discussion on the marketing of tourism. I suspect that there will be various opinions in the committee on the advisability of the approach to the marketing of Scottish tourism that the select committee recommended. I hope that it will be possible to arrange such a discussion, just so that we have a marker down on the subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155179",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 820
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 155179,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for my lateness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 155182,
      "EditedText": "So, you have 14 favourite cakes? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 155185,
      "EditedText": "As a committee, we are anxious about the two audiences that are relevant to us: those who have an interest in lifelong learning and those who have an interest in enterprise. We need to reassure them that, in three to four months, we have been a good advertisement for what we are here to do. This is my dilemma: when I look at the list of potential topics, I realise that there are two possible approaches. We could go for something that seems fairly neat and containable, but which is more reactionary than innovatory. On the other hand, some of the topics are chunky and, as Marilyn indicated, give the committee scope for some really good, solid work.My question—and I welcome the views of other members on it—is that, if we are to give a good advertisement for the Parliament and this committee by producing something that is genuinely positive, constructive and useful to the audience to whom we should relate, should we not be careful about our selection of topic, bearing those broad criteria in mind?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 155186,
      "EditedText": "My view is that the committee should do exactly what you have said, Annabel. I think that all members would sign up to the test of whether something is productive and constructive, and whether it helps policy making and gives a signal to the wider community that this committee can suggest ideas that can make a positive difference. It is a question of what subject area we can use to express that point. That is the nub of it. Do you want to make some suggestions, Annabel?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 155188,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Marilyn. We must give a clear signal that we want to take a balanced approach to both of this committee's responsibilities. Workplace training is causing great concern in my part of the world. I spent Monday with Argyll Training, an organisation that has expressed great concern over some of the schemes and the way in which they are working.On the business side, the biggest drivers, in terms of the levers that the Scottish Executive can use to influence the Scottish economy, are the economic development agencies, which are responsible for £0.5 billion of spending. If we, as a committee, are to get a fundamental knowledge of what is happening out there and how the Executive can influence economic performance in Scotland, that is the area that we must address as a priority. I appreciate that that is a big subject for us to tackle, but we must treat item 4 on our list—\"Co-ordination and Performance of Economic Development Services\"—as a priority.Our understanding of how those organisations work, and of the effect that they have on the Scottish economy, is central to our ability to address the longer-term issue of the performance of the Scottish economy and how the Scottish Executive can affect that performance. I appreciate that that is a big subject and that we may have to weigh up which issue to tackle first, but that is my choice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 155192,
      "EditedText": "That has to be this morning's last cake analogy. We will have to take a break at 11:15 for some pastries."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 155198,
      "EditedText": "As far as I am concerned, this committee is concerned principally with the creation of wealth and jobs; all things will flow from that eventually. We need to consider how best to get our heads round the tools that are available to us. Much of that has already been discussed.Further to the comments on methodology, we could regard the enterprise network and the tourism support agencies in one light at this stage and consider such questions as whether we need to get close to them and how they are subdivided—but we cannot do that in a couple of weeks.Margo mentioned the subdivision of labour in the committee, in the short term, to concentrate on the key, pressing areas. We all want everything done by tomorrow. It would be wonderful if we could go home at Christmas having done the job for the Parliament, but that will not happen. If people have expressed interest in specific areas, it might be helpful if they considered the local enterprise company system, or tourism support, or further education. For example, I could spend a day at a further education college, learn about all the good and bad things there and discuss the college's links with industry.Our scope of work is one big mesh. A series of tools is available to us; we must decide how best to apply them on behalf of Scotland and how we can encourage others—who are not at our behest—to join us. I make a plea that we do that as early as possible by dividing up the committee and going off to do the job. We cannot cover the Highlands and Islands in a day; we have to subdivide our interests and report back. That should be one of the first ways of tackling our work and, whatever we do, we must take those who invest in business with us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 155199,
      "EditedText": "I am anxious to keep us focused on the agenda and subject areas. We can return to other points later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 155200,
      "EditedText": "I still favour point 4, partly because economic development services are also a matter of public interest. There is a public perception that economic development in Scotland may not be as effective as it could be. If we want to show that the Parliament is responding to the public's priorities, it is important for us to consider such matters.Point 4 overlaps with point 1, which considers how to work with local communities in the aftermath of closures, but perhaps point 4 is a bit broader. In some areas, the problem is not large-scale industrial closure but a series of small-scale closures. The smaller closures can add up to significant job losses in certain manufacturing sectors. If we pursue point 4, we could have a broader investigation but there may be a danger of it becoming so broad that we cannot cover the ground in the time we have set."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 155202,
      "EditedText": "They will have their cakes, biscuits and political ornamentation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 155207,
      "EditedText": "I said that there is a proposal to extend it throughout the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 155209,
      "EditedText": "There is a specific reference to rating revaluation in the list of potential subjects. I have corresponded with the convener about some of the other matters we have discussed, such as the Scottish Qualifications Authority and whether the Education, Culture and Sport Committee should take lead responsibility for the development of higher still. A similar question arises in relation to rating revaluation, in so far as it strays into the remit of the Local Government Committee. It could be argued that that committee should be the lead committee on rating revaluation. I would like that to be clarified by the two committees before we start to examine the matter. We should not look at it separately from discussions with the Convener of the Local Government Committee. The same applies to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and higher still."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 155211,
      "EditedText": "To return to Margo's point, we set priorities and then the work load has to be shifted around. Although we would like to deliver some sort of definitive statement around Christmas to demonstrate that the committee has done some work, we should not let that get in the way of our priorities. A strong preference for item 4—and the concept of linking the enterprise network to workplace training—has been expressed. We should start the inquiry as soon as we can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 155213,
      "EditedText": "The links exist. We are going into a big inquiry, but it is the kind of thing that we should be doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 155221,
      "EditedText": "The clerks have flagged up the issue of the potential overlap with the work of the Local Government Committee. I would certainly be breaching the agreements reached in the conveners group if I did not check with the Convener of the Local Government Committee. That is a piece of housekeeping that I will deal with immediately and I will confirm at our next meeting what discussions have taken place. We will need to wait two weeks for clarification, but I will try to make some progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 155225,
      "EditedText": "For the business community, to whom rates are paid is almost academic. The issue is what they are based on, which is not necessarily within the remit of the Local Government Committee. Another agency is involved and we will need to deal with the Scottish Executive. Convener, you must do what is required with the other conveners, but we should also ask the clerks to start considering from whom we should be taking evidence and come back to us at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 155231,
      "EditedText": "It will be manufacturing, Duncan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 155232,
      "EditedText": "Or manufacturing. I might put in a bid for that to be in the programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 155235,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Effectively, the remit will be a merger of items 4, 7 and 8. I am anxious that we define a remit that structures exactly what we are examining and what our end product will be. That cannot be done by committee; we will need to go away and put the remit on paper and then get it to you so that it can be agreed in due course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 155239,
      "EditedText": "George has made a fair point. We are certainly no longer talking about completing an inquiry by Christmas—it will not all be over by Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 155241,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps by the next one, yes. Our programme will run well into next year and I am reluctant to fix a definitive end point. We must consider the volume of material that we will be surveying and the type of organisations and individuals that we want to see, and we must begin to schedule that work. The suggestion about interim conclusions in certain areas is helpful and may signpost some of the work that we carry out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 155245,
      "EditedText": "There will be great enthusiasm in the communities that operate economic development schemes in further education colleges and workplace training centres. They will be delighted that the committee has made their subject a priority.The plethora of organisations involved in our exercise a month ago was bewildering, so we must approach this area carefully and in a constructive way to find a method of delivering services more effectively to give the public better value. Do members want to suggest any organisations that we should contact, or should I discuss the matter with the clerks and report back in due course?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155248",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 155248,
      "EditedText": "Agenda item 2 concerns a number of business items. The first relates to the Procedures Committee. At one of our private discussions, George Lyon raised the issue of my convenership of the committee and my holding a front-bench position in the Scottish National party. I agreed that the matter should go on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 155252,
      "EditedText": "Fergus has touched on an area that concerns me, and Allan talked about a dispute. I want to ensure that the committee does not give the impression of being riven with dissent, because I do not think that it is. If George is concerned about a potential conflict of interests, and is suggesting that the matter should be referred to the Procedures Committee, I am fairly relaxed about that, but I do not think that it is a matter of great significance. However, I do not want the impression to be given that this committee is in turmoil in its early stages, because that would not be an accurate reflection of what we all feel.Fergus has alluded to an important point: we are all political animals, and we all represent different parties. Within those parties, we have varying degrees of influence and authority. Fergus makes an important point when he talks about self-discipline and propriety—to me they are paramount. Convener, I repeat what I said at the last committee meeting. You have conducted yourself impeccably and, as that is my honest perception, it is only fair to you that I put my view on the record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 155254,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Duncan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 155270,
      "EditedText": "Can anyone clarify how many meetings are involved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 155273,
      "EditedText": "There must be two members if we are to have any continuity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 155275,
      "EditedText": "You can suggest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 155276,
      "EditedText": "If cakes are involved, Annabel will volunteer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 155280,
      "EditedText": "Can I ask a point of information? As members of other committees attend our meetings, could we attend the forum as observers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 155281,
      "EditedText": "I do not know, but I will check with the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 155282,
      "EditedText": "It might be interesting to dip in and out from time to time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 155284,
      "EditedText": "I think that the trust is worth supporting. Anne Begg, the MP for Aberdeen South, has been involved at Westminster, and she found it very useful.Does the scheme take people out of other sectors to give them experience of political life as well? Is it a two-way thing? There is a scheme that involves more than politicians just spending time with industry, but involves industry representatives spending time with politicians."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 155286,
      "EditedText": "Potentially, but it depends what it would involve. I come from an industry background anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 155287,
      "EditedText": "Does the paper ask for people to get involved in setting up the scheme, rather than for people to participate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 155288,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we are looking for a couple of representatives to take part in the formulation of the initiative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 155289,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to participate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 155144,
      "EditedText": "I am very pleased that the committee has agreed to come to the Highlands and Islands as that will dispel some of the comments that have been made about the Scottish Parliament not being committed to, or interested in, the Highlands and Islands. That is most certainly not the case. The visit will not be Johnsonian in length, but it will, perhaps, be longer than a prime ministerial visit.The key point about methodology that emerges from the paper is that this year we will have an opportunity to initiate legislation, rather than respond to legislation proposed by the Government. It is an opportunity that we will probably not have again in the four years of this Parliament.Whatever subjects we pick, I think that the business community in particular would like us to bequeath something positive and demonstrably good for the promotion of business in Scotland, by using the initiative powers of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 155166,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased that we are going to Inverness. Further to George's comments, perhaps we can suggest that the Rural Affairs Committee visit Mallaig to see for itself the dreadful state of the road there. That would fit with George's desire for committees to meet outside Inverness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 155278,
      "EditedText": "I would be quite interested in attending, if that does not find disfavour with the rest of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 155127,
      "EditedText": "The main item of business today is the committee's work programme up to Christmas, although we can look a bit further ahead if members wish. There are two relevant papers: the first is a methodology paper that sets out how we can go about our business and the type of inquiries that we can pursue; the second has been drawn up following our informal discussions with the minister a fortnight ago. We may wish to consider some of the minister's suggestions, which may be relevant to the work of his department and of the Executive. At the conclusion of this part of the discussion, I hope that we can agree on the type of work that we will undertake between now and Christmas. I also hope that we can agree on the remit of any inquiries that we will undertake during that period, and that we can give guidance to the clerks on the type of witnesses that we want to invite to the committee in the course of those inquiries.Before we go through the two papers in detail—I expect that it will be a fairly long discussion—do members want to raise any points about the papers or the process that I have set out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 155129,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful if we could look through the methodology paper and decide whether we want to do, for example, two medium-sized inquiries or one large inquiry and one smaller inquiry. We may want to do one major piece of work leading to a report, and have three or four meetings at which we take evidence so that the views of particular organisations appear on the public record. A number of organisations have expressed a desire to make representations to the committee, and we have to decide how to absorb that input."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 155132,
      "EditedText": "Should we not put the horse before the cart and decide what it is that we want to do? That will dictate how long it will take."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 155136,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, this is an attempt to give us the basic machinery, within which we can flex. As Margo said, something that we all agree is paramount may demand our attention. In terms of the structure of our work programme, is that not a reasonable proposal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 155141,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem with the work programme. I agree with Allan that it seems fairly balanced. My only question is how long is it envisaged that we will tour the Highlands? I presume that it will not be a tour like Dr Johnson's. Will we spend a day or two in Inverness, or will we go to the west or east coast?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 155143,
      "EditedText": "I, too, am fairly happy with the schedule of work. At the moment, it is probably sensible not to add items that would require extra slots. We will probably find that some committees need extra slots while they consider legislation.Because it will be difficult to travel away while the Parliament is meeting, it would be wise to have the housing presentation during the recess. We must have sufficient notice, however, as we must also include constituency business in our schedules."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 155147,
      "EditedText": "I think that Mr McNeil is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 155148,
      "EditedText": "We must get to the heart of the issue that Duncan raises. How can a situation be transformed in such a short time, when at one stage it appeared that prospects were extremely poor? Why has this company had the confidence to give a commitment that a number of other companies might have been able to give?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 155153,
      "EditedText": "We can build it into the work programme. I can ask the clerks to inquire into this case and to make their findings available to members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 155160,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on, what Fergus said about the Highlands and Islands is very important. Do you have in mind a date when we could meet there? I also want to stress that the Highlands and Islands are not just Inverness. We need to bear that in mind when deciding where to hold the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 155161,
      "EditedText": "I was halfway through summing up our discussion of the work programme. Members' comments have been helpful. I take it that we are broadly agreed that we will complete one major inquiry before Christmas.The one issue that we still have to settle concerns our meeting in the Highlands. When we planned our informal seminar in August, we felt that it was inappropriate to summon to Edinburgh Highlands and Islands Enterprise and other organisations representing the Highlands. I envisage at this stage a one-day exercise in information gathering. For the sake of convenience, it would be sensible for that to take place in Inverness—although it would not bother me if Highlands and Islands Enterprise and other organisations wanted to meet somewhere else. The aim of the exercise would be to familiarise the committee with the issues that the body of opinion in the Highlands and Islands would want us to consider as part of our on-going work.The issue of visits outwith Edinburgh has been discussed by the conveners committee and the Presiding Officer, and a process for securing agreement to such visits has to be gone through. I am anxious for us to reach agreement on this now for two reasons. First, as Elaine said, people's diaries are very congested and I want to give as much notice as possible. Secondly, we must jump through several hoops before we can establish that the visit is valid and legitimate. Because the minister's remit covers policy on the Highlands and Islands, it seems to me to be legitimate for us to want to have that area's perspective. Although this is something for the committee to decide, I would prefer the meeting to take the form of a public hearing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 155162,
      "EditedText": "We need to give a strong signal to rural Scotland that the Parliament will reach out and engage with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 155163,
      "EditedText": "Where are we now—Lochgilphead?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 155165,
      "EditedText": "I have an open mind on that and will take guidance from the committee on it. Fergus, I can feel a plug for Inverness coming on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 155168,
      "EditedText": "If we are to make a bid to go to Inverness, it would be useful to know what the terms of that bid will be. Will it be for two days? Will all members of the committee go to one venue? I would like to know what we will suggest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 155170,
      "EditedText": "Alan makes an important point about the financial implications of trips. In the first instance, we should think about going to places that we can get to by public transport. There would be some media interest in MSPs tripping around in their cars and staying overnight in other towns. We have to demonstrate a desire not only to go out and meet people, but to be as frugal as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 155171,
      "EditedText": "Excuse me while I take my hair shirt off. We should not approach the matter in this way. If the exercise is worth conducting, we should be prepared to pay the going rate for it. We have to have a clearly defined objective for going to different areas—I will volunteer to go to Inverness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 155175,
      "EditedText": "We cannot spend ages in the Highlands, so it will be difficult for us to cover the whole territory. I think that Marilyn Livingstone and I will want to have as comprehensive an examination as possible of the University of the Highlands and Islands. I would gain a lot from that and I am sure that other people would gain a lot from examining Highlands and Islands Enterprise more deeply. If we segment the work in some way and report back to the committee, we might get more out of the visit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 155180,
      "EditedText": "One of the issues that we discussed was maintaining a balance between lifelong learning and the enterprise sector. Members will not be surprised by what I am going to say. If we are to have such a balance, we should consider lifelong learning and accept that an investigation is under way only into higher education funding. That is an issue for this committee. I am not saying that it should be the first thing that we should attack, but, if it is not the first, I would like it to be the second.There is an issue about post-school training below the level of higher education. I am talking about everything from special-needs training, community education and informal further education right through to higher national certificates. One of the documents that we received was from a Fife company, Inter-ed. Some of the statements that I am going to make are reflected in that document, probably because my experience is from Fife as well. We need a coherent and sustainable strategy for education, training and lifelong learning. We must consider a single gateway and funding mechanisms, and we must investigate all the options that are available to us. At the moment, the Scottish Qualifications Authority is considering a qualifications framework in which everything can be accredited, even a small course on computing. People who are coming back to lifelong learning find nothing more off-putting than having to repeat things continually. In line with the qualifications framework that is being introduced, and in line with the Scotcat credit framework, it is important that we investigate a fully integrated system—a single gateway—and the way in which we fund post-school training and education. I am not saying that that should be the first item on our agenda, as it will need a lengthy investigation, but I want to flag the issue up as one that I want us to pursue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 155181,
      "EditedText": "I seek to broaden the discussion a little. I am very much in sympathy with what Marilyn says. My dilemma, when considering this issue, is that it is like being presented with a plate of my favourite cakes—I simply do not know which one to go for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 155187,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I want to expand on that. I am looking with great interest—and, I have to say, great personal selfishness—at topic 9 on our list of potential subjects for inquiry, which concerns our small and medium enterprises and rating revaluation. We know that there is a real and on-going agony in the small-business community, which could be aggravated by the impost of revaluation. SMEs make up a huge sector of Scotland's economic activity, and if we are to look at that sector, we should consider it fairly neatly and effectively in the short term. I would be interested in Fergus's views on that. A lot of the information that we need is already available, but we must co-ordinate it. That offers the prospect of taking on something that is manageable, worthwhile to a significant part of our business community and will, I hope, allow us to come up with some sensible recommendations. I would plump for that issue as my first choice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 155191,
      "EditedText": "I agree entirely with what Duncan and George have said. It is important to get the balance right, as we said in our discussion on methodology. There are 14 important topics for inquiry, discussion and review. If they are 14 cakes, two of them are cream-cakes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 155193,
      "EditedText": "I have eaten the cakes, Allan."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 155194,
      "EditedText": "My apologies to fellow members. Point 4 deals with the co-ordination and performance of economic development services. I agree with George; the questions that are posed under that heading are crucial to the Scottish economy. Are there too many agencies delivering economic development in Scotland? Do they overlap? In the context of our saying that we should have meaningful discussions, I think that that is the point that stands out. As Duncan and Marilyn said, point 4 is linked to FE expansion and finance and to workplace training, which should be combined under a single heading. Workplace training could be examined in an inquiry into the enterprise network, but it is probably better kept as a secondary priority. I say all that with no disrespect to the relative merits of small businesses and rating revaluation, which, as Fergus suggested, could be dealt with as a single item using the convener's model of a rapid response for the committee's work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C155196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 155196,
      "EditedText": "Members will not be surprised to hear two Fifers sticking together. I support absolutely what Marilyn said about training and lifelong learning. A couple of weeks ago, I was reading some of the papers the Confederation of British Industry has sent us. It highlighted the fact that the Western Isles, Strathclyde and Fife are the top three for unemployment levels. In terms of the structural decline that has taken place across Scotland, one of my key concerns is regional aid. There is some urgency, because early October is when decisions are made at European level. Various papers have been made available to us as elected members. They say that regional aid will have quite a serious impact on some of our communities. The impact in Fife will be negative and that causes me concern. Is there any scope in our work programme to do something on that item as a matter of some urgency, because the decisions are to be made by October? My second choice of topic for members' discussion and decision would be small and medium enterprise capital availability—item 6—in the context of training. In Fife, generations of people have been unemployed. They come from backgrounds where enterprise has been hindered because access to capital has been a fundamental problem. That links into the issue of poverty. We need to consider capital availability not only for SMEs but for people from disadvantaged backgrounds, because that links into poverty. Those are my two bids.Something that is not on members' sheet, as I have only just finished a paper that I promised the clerk would be finished by last week, is co-operative developments and community business development. That is a sheltered environment for people who would not take the normal route to enterprise. At a UK level, the last co-operative development agency was disbanded in 1982 by the Conservative Government. There is much to be said for helping people in a sheltered environment that embraces all the key players in the industry sector. That would include, in a co-ordinated way, universities, colleges, banks, local people and development agencies. I hope that you, convener, will consider that in due course—although perhaps not as part of this programme. I will ensure that you get the paper as a matter of urgency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 155197,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, that would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 155201,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for taking the biscuit. I did not realise that we would be discussing all the points in turn. I should not have spoken earlier about tourism. That was meant as a small additional point about timing and methodology.We cannot escape from starting off with point 4. That is the basis for our work; if we start there, we will find that things flow from it. Point 6—on capital availability—is the hard-nosed bit that business people, and people who are thinking of going into business, will be interested in. In addition, there is the topicality of the SMEs and rating revaluation. We cannot ignore that—it is happening—and we will look like a useless crowd of political ornamentation if we do not face up to what business people are facing up to right now. Those are my priorities.I would very much like to dive into lifelong learning right away, but this is about hard facts. People want to set up here because they say that we have a very well educated and prepared work force. That is why National Semiconductor is expanding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 155203,
      "EditedText": "This is quite difficult for all of us because these are all good topics. What has been said about economic development agencies is correct. One of the essential elements of the knowledge economy that we talk about a lot at the moment is human capital—that means having well-trained people. It is about workplace training more than anything—that is one of the most important things that we should look at. I do not see why we, as the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, cannot look at that, together with the further education sector. Work and further education have to interact effectively. As far as I am aware, Scottish Enterprise and many of the local enterprise companies have quite large budgets for training. If we are able to look at training and education, we could take that aspect of the enterprise agencies into consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 155205,
      "EditedText": "To be slightly polemical, I think that item 4 is the most important subject. I did not choose it first because I think that it needs a lot more time than the period between now and Christmas. That is why I expressed a preference for item 9, on SMEs and rating revaluation. As a second topic—and one that will take a chunky period of time—4 is my choice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155210",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 155210,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 155215,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to accept the proposal that we look at items 4, 7 and 8. They are what we have been discussing, and other items will impinge on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 155217,
      "EditedText": "That is the difficulty. Fergus is correct: we need either to act now or forget about it. The imperative is to examine the small business sector and to offer constructive advice now. If we cannot do that, the issue almost slips off the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C155222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 155222,
      "EditedText": "If representations on regional aid are not made in October, we may as well forget about it. Once the map is set in stone, we are looking at five years down the track. We need to remember that member states, not Europe, set the priorities. We are talking about hundreds of millions of pounds of complementary support. That issue may cut across the work of the European Committee. Given that the issue is so fundamental, particularly for local enterprise, we need to make an informed decision. At least if we decide not to do anything, and leave it to someone else, that would be a decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 155223,
      "EditedText": "The European Committee is taking a close interest in this issue. We have been pressing for details on how the map will look and so on. It would not go amiss to have a conversation with Hugh Henry, that committee's convener, pronto."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 155226,
      "EditedText": "I want, first, to discuss the issue with the Convener of the Local Government Committee, to get some guidance on where it is on the subject. We will also consider the on-going preparation that will be needed for an inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 155229,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on the work programme, before I move on?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155234",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 155234,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify that you simply forgot to mention the further education sector? We agreed on items 4, 7 and 8."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 155236,
      "EditedText": "I have just a quick point about the remit, which I am sure will be fine when it is drawn up. I hope that we will look into the large amount of workplace training that is delivered within companies. Also, a large amount of workplace training is delivered by external companies, and not just by Scottish Enterprise, local authorities or other agencies. The remit should encompass all the different training providers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 155238,
      "EditedText": "It is very important that we should tackle the remit as a series of separate blocks, as the inquiry will cover a huge area. We could end up with a report that means nothing, and just skim the surface, as we tended to do in some of our initial discussions. The linkages within the remit are clear, but we will have to break the work load down so that we can get to grips with the issues that underlie the structures and come to meaningful conclusions. That may mean that the work programme goes over into next year and that there are a series of breaks in which we come to interim conclusions. I would be very disappointed if we ended up with a bland conclusion. That would mean that we had not got into the nitty-gritty of the issues. The committee must understand what it is talking about, understand where the levers are and how they work, and reach sensible conclusions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 155243,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to give any agreement to taking steps on that, although the committee recognises that it is a serious issue, until I have had a chance to discuss it with the Convener of the Local Government Committee. To say anything before then would get us into a fankle. It will be an agenda item for the next committee meeting for me to report back on that and decide where to go next."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 155246,
      "EditedText": "The latter suggestion is probably the appropriate one at this juncture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 155247,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. That draws the discussion on the work programme to a close."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155253",
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      "ID": 820
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 155253,
      "EditedText": "I will join the John Swinney fan club. I must put on the record that I have no complaint about your conduct in the chair, convener, and I think that that is the general view. However, the question is out of the box and cannot be put back in. It is best settled by the Procedures Committee, and I hope that it will be settled in a way that allows you to continue in the chair. It would be dangerous for this committee to try to resolve it or to take a decision about it. The Procedures Committee is the appropriate body to consider the matter and it should be referred to that committee, to maintain the convener's continued integrity, to allow us to concentrate on our work and to put a blooming lid on the matter, if nothing else.However, I think that there is a difference between members who sit on the committee, although there may be potential conflicts, and the convener, who acts on our behalf and represents all our political views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155256",
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      "ID": 820
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 155256,
      "EditedText": "I have very difficult news for you, Duncan—that will get out, you know."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155260",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 155260,
      "EditedText": "I can think of reasons why it is not."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155261",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 155261,
      "EditedText": "That is a question that arose in my reading of the paper. I am happy to sit on the forum if that is the committee's wish."
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  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155262",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 155262,
      "EditedText": "I was also going to ask the question about the water companies. I am happy to second Allan's nomination."
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "The clerk, Simon Watkins, can tell us something about the issue of water."
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  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155267",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 155267,
      "EditedText": "I am happy for Allan to sit as a permanent representative, but would it be helpful if we rotated the other representative among the members of the committee? We could rotate on a six-monthly or yearly basis and report back. I am conscious that all of us have demands on our time."
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 155271,
      "EditedText": "They are quarterly."
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      "ContributionID": 155272,
      "EditedText": "I would prefer that we had two defined representatives."
    },
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 155274,
      "EditedText": "Can I suggest a member from one of the non-Executive parties?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155277",
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      "ContributionID": 155277,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we should ask about that."
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155285",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 155285,
      "EditedText": "Simon has advised me that the scheme is in the process of formation, so I do not think that there is a definitive position on that. Are we broadly sympathetic to the idea?Elaine, are you interested in pursuing that?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155292",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 155292,
      "EditedText": "No, but there is another place if anyone else is interested. What about Marilyn?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155293",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 155293,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155294",
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      "ID": 820
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
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      "EditedText": "There is a reference to Marilyn in the submission. It might be that her expertise would be valuable."
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  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155189",
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    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 155189,
      "EditedText": "I echo the comments of all the speakers; we want a balance between lifelong learning and enterprise. I endorse what Annabel Goldie said: I would include item 9 as one of the points to be considered soon. The purpose of our considering such an issue is that we can look in detail at a problem that Westminster has never really dealt with. Andrew Neil asked what could we do that the Secretary of State for Scotland could not: this is one thing that we can do. We should consider point 9 soon because the rating revaluation is to take effect from 1 April 2000. The committee may decide that one solution is to instruct the assessors about how ratable values should be calculated, for example. However, the matter could be influenced by the use of statutory instruments—the powers exist. If we want to consider de-rating as a solution, the timing is not so urgent, although it is fairly pressing none the less. We could examine the issue in one meeting. We could take advice from relevant organisations such as the assessors, the Federation of Small Businesses, the Confederation of British Industry and others. That need not involve 20 or 30 witnesses, but perhaps only five or six, which means that it would not impinge on the meaty topics that George talked about. We want to help small business and show that it is not just hollow rhetoric when we say that SNP members want this Parliament to work. Such a measure may help in that, which all parties would welcome. Working in a spirit of co-operation, we could even help the First Minister meet the elusive target of creating 100,000 new businesses by 2009."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155216",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "ID": 1994,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 155216,
      "EditedText": "To answer Allan's point, the issue of non-domestic rates involves local government, but the impact of it is felt by business. That has never really been looked at before. A report may offer a revenue-neutral proposal, but there would obviously need to be interaction with the Local Government Committee. The scope of the inquiry could be relatively narrow, so it would not need to occupy too much of the time that is available, which is not a huge amount. However, if we do not consider the issue now, it will be too late and we will have missed the opportunity forever."
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  {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 155242,
      "EditedText": "You did not mention what the mood of the committee was in relation to item 9. There have been various views, ranging from the opinion that it is urgent to the opinion that we should not consider it at all. Either the meeting on 27 October or the one 10 November could be used to discuss the matter. I got the impression that that had been agreed, but is that your view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 155251,
      "EditedText": "I would not seek to oppose a referral of this matter to the Procedures Committee; however, I wonder if that would be going down the right route. There is more than one potential conflict of interest around this table, and around the tables of any of the committees of the Parliament. If we accept that the role of the committee is twofold—to challenge and probe the Executive and to produce our own proposals—plainly the aims of the committee are different from those of any of our parties.A clear conflict of interest must exist for members of the Lib-Lab coalition, who must both defend the coalition and challenge the Executive. I would not want to refer that to the Procedures Committee. Doing so would not be helpful, and would be seen as a party political ruse, which is the sort of thing that we want to get away from. If that Pandora's box were to be opened, it could quickly lead to a lot of party political points being made about the performance of members on committees and about whether they were fulfilling their loyalty to their party or to their committee. I do not think that that would be productive or in the long-term interests of the Parliament, and that is why I regret that this issue is being pursued by George Lyon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3524,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 155123,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:00"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 3524,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John Swinney): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 155124,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, everyone. I want to bring the meeting to order and commence the proceedings of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. All members of the committee, the public and the press must ensure that their mobile phones are switched off and that their pagers are switched to vibrate—a rule that I had better make sure I obey too.The agenda for today's meeting has been circulated. We are joined by Helen Eadie, who although not a member of the committee has expressed an interest in our work. She  is very welcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 15 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3524,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 155126,
      "EditedText": "Yes, David Davidson has expressed a similar interest and will be welcome if and when he is able to join us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 155128,
      "EditedText": "Are we discussing both papers together and then coming to a conclusion on both the methodology and the potential subjects for inquiry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 155130,
      "EditedText": "In the paper on methodology, five further Wednesday morning meetings are scheduled before the end of the year. From your experience of how long inquiries at Westminster usually last, will five meetings give us the chance to undertake a big inquiry, or should we be thinking about doing a couple of small ones? We need to consider the experience south of the border to enable us to decide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 155131,
      "EditedText": "Can we address the work programme and the suggested sequence of meetings on page three of the methodology paper. I want to make one comment and then we can talk about the rest of the paper. I am keen to ensure that we deliver on our commitment to undertake consultation in the Highlands and Islands before the turn of the year. It would be regrettable if we were unable to do that.Having said that, with the remaining scheduled Wednesday meetings, we probably have enough time to do one other inquiry. We would have the opportunity to meet nine groups or individuals to take evidence. We could have a detailed dialogue, which would give us a reasonable evidence base, in addition to any written submissions that would be available to committee members to read at any time. We could then reach our conclusions about the area of work before the turn of the year.Once we see how that pattern of activity is working out, there may be the opportunity to have a couple of 45-minute meetings on non-related topics, when we can invite organisations to meet us and give a 30-minute presentation on their areas of interest. A degree of balance is required. It is difficult to give a definitive answer to George's question without knowing the subject of the inquiry that we will embark upon. The paper refers to a number of subject areas for which we could spend a lot of time evidence gathering if we wanted to do the job properly, which obviously is what we want to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 155134,
      "EditedText": "Presumably we could put things into the pot and as a committee prioritise them, remembering of course that they will be affected by events, dear boy. Things might happen that we do not anticipate and that could move an issue up the pecking order. We may already be committed to a presentation on the Highlands and a study visit. We should tackle that in depth, because it is our big issue to be addressed before Christmas. I can think of a couple of things that I would like to put into the pot. For example, a recommendation will be laid before the policy holders of Scottish Widows that they should agree to the takeover—or merger, or whatever they want to call it—by Lloyds TSB. I would have liked this committee to examine that matter so that we can produce an objective assessment. It would not be a huge task. I am sure that others will have other areas of interest. We could have one big inquiry before Christmas and then decide on the priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 155139,
      "EditedText": "I have no problems with the work programme, but it narrows down the subject matter of the inquiry that we can undertake. If we want to have a conclusion on an issue by December, it cannot be a wide-ranging inquiry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 155145,
      "EditedText": "I agree that both papers are well balanced and that we can proceed on this basis.Margo said that small inquiries will give us flexibility to fit in important issues. I do not mention this out of opportunism, but yesterday in my constituency National Semiconductor (UK) Ltd decided not to outsource the manufacturing of wafers at its Greenock plant—which it calls a spin-out. Instead, it decided to keep production in-house. It has decided to invest $17 million in that plant over the next two years. I searched the papers this morning and could not find anything about that despite there being a press release.There have been blows to the Scottish economy over the past year or so and sunrise industries are almost crumbling before our eyes. We must investigate whether there is a real sea change. We must get information regarding the fact that current opportunities seem to be different from those of six months ago. This committee should be interested in that changing cycle and contact the minister about it. We should also contact representatives of industry, if not National Semiconductor management.There are wider implications. We need good structure and a secure work programme in order to proceed and to ensure good outcomes. Small inquiries will give us the flexibility to seize on issues like that and get something positive out of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 155151,
      "EditedText": "Can we take it that that will be done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 155152,
      "EditedText": "We are doing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 155154,
      "EditedText": "Is that a form of rapid response in reverse? Are we proposing that we examine the rapidity of the Executive's response not only to large-scale industrial closures, but to major investment and job-creating projects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 155156,
      "EditedText": "That takes us on to the subject inquiries that we may want to conduct, but I take Elaine's point.Further to Allan's comments, it might be helpful at this stage to agree on a process. If a member feels, like Duncan, that they have a specific issue to raise, they should be free to mention it to the clerks. The clerks, depending on their work load—I am anxious not to place enormous additional burdens on them, as they are very busy already—could pursue those issues on behalf of members, after discussing with me how much work needs to be done and so on. Their findings can be made available to members on a continuous basis. At committee meetings we can then discuss what inquiries we want to make to follow up some of that material. Does that meet with broad agreement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 155164,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we do not get stuck in the mindset that we can meet only in Glasgow, Edinburgh or Inverness."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155172",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 155172,
      "EditedText": "Reluctantly?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155174",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 155174,
      "EditedText": "This committee discussed the importance of properly looking at issues from the Highlands and Islands perspective. We deliberately did not invite organisations from that area to come to our seminar in August because we intended to visit the Highlands and Islands to talk to them. A number of organisations there have perspectives that relate to our remit—the University of the Highlands and Islands, for example, has an interesting perspective on the approach to the learning environment and would have a great deal to say to us. Highlands and Islands Enterprise has taken pains to express that it is a different organisation from Scottish Enterprise and there might be lessons that one enterprise company can learn from the other.The purpose of the exercise is to familiarise the committee with the issues in the Highlands and Islands that are relevant to our remit. It is not a detailed inquiry; it is a one-day study visit to one place with a programme that—to take on board Elaine's point—allows us to use public transport.The purpose of the visit is to ensure that the proper attention is given to a perspective to which committees in Westminster were not always able to give their full attention. We have the lead responsibility for Highlands and Islands policy in the Parliament."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155178",
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    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
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      "EditedText": "I shall conclude my comments on the paper and we shall return to some specific issues. We have had comments on the rates burden on individual companies, which comes under item 9 on our list of potential subjects for inquiry. Material on that subject has been given to us by the Federation of Small Businesses. The Confederation of British Industry has made other representations to us about economic statistics.My final point relates to item 14 on the list: e-commerce. There is a reference there to the work of the House of Commons Select Committee on Trade and Industry in this field. I have twice tried to meet Martin O'Neill, the chairman of that committee, but on both occasions, for various reasons, I had to cancel the meetings. I want to have a chat with him to get up to speed with the work of his committee so that we can close off any issues that we may be duplicating.With those comments, I open the discussion. I ask members to try to focus on the subject matter that we should examine in the period until Christmas—the broader inquiries and the more specific hearings that we could have on individual subjects. There might also be speculation about what we might want to knock into the work load for the start of the period from January. I welcome contributions. I also welcome David Davidson, who has just joined us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155183",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 155183,
      "EditedText": "With no difficulty."
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155184",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 155184,
      "EditedText": "That is a few fewer than I have."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155190",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 155190,
      "EditedText": "The work of this committee will be best promoted if we stop making political speeches and focus on the issues. I do not think that anyone in this committee would disagree that each of the issues that are listed has merit. On Marilyn's point, I think that we have to strike a balance between enterprise and lifelong learning. I make a plea in support of points 7 and 8, which deal with FE expansion and finance and with workplace training. They could almost be merged, as there is a link between business and education—a to-ing and fro-ing—and many people come back to education through the workplace."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155195",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 155195,
      "EditedText": "I, too, have a lot of sympathy with Marilyn's point on lifelong learning. With item 1, we have the opportunity to consider a specific issue—members will not be surprised when I suggest Clackmannan. If we examine Clackmannan, which is a small area, we will be focused. Clackmannan has 11 per cent unemployment, which is the highest in Scotland—this is not a political speech, Duncan—terribly poor infrastructure; a lacklustre enterprise company; and a council that lacks focus. We also have the great problem of the changing face of Scottish industry. The traditional industries have gone and the sunrise industries are coming up. If we focus on Clackmannan, we could cover many subjects. We could consider the enterprise company, business trusts and the provision of lifelong learning in the community. We could touch on social deprivation and how we could help. That would pull in George and Allan's points on items 1 and 4. I am not sure whether we would be able to deliver meaningful reports by Christmas—we may need slightly longer. That would be my position on a major review. Fergus made a good point when he said that small and medium enterprise rating revaluation would not take a great deal of time and so would be a valuable point to slot in. From my experience, there are some anomalies in the rating system, particularly in relation to petrol stations where valuations are based on criteria that were set many years ago and do not meet the current economic climate. The statistical information that we get is obviously important in making any judgment on where the Scottish economy is going, so I would like to make a plea for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155204",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 155204,
      "EditedText": "I agree that item 4, on co-ordination and performance of economic development services in Scotland, should receive priority. I have no problem with looking at that first, as long as it is recognised that it leads on to what Elaine Thomson said about the need for further education expansion and workplace training. Ultimately, the organisations that fund much of the support for small businesses are the enterprise companies. They also fund workplace training and—in Fife anyway—the further education sector. That is not a plug because I represent Fife. I am serious—Fife has the FAST-TRAC model, which is different from models elsewhere in Scotland. That model, which represents an integration of the further education sector with enterprise company funding, might be extended throughout the country. That is quite radical and it is something that we might want to look at. Economic development relies on sustainable lifelong learning and good training in our further and higher education institutions. One leads on from the other. We must never lose sight of the fact that enterprise companies are the major funders and players in both areas. Elaine made that point well. I would be happy to see item 4 taking priority before Christmas, provided that we qualify that by saying that we will take a serious look at the impact on further education expansion and workplace training, and any further impact on economic development."
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155206",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 155206,
      "EditedText": "We have had a good expression of views. Marilyn's contribution was helpful in addressing the point that we have reached on this issue. There is a general view that we should take a good look at local economic development services. However, if we do that it is inevitable—as we reach the boundaries of that review—that we will touch on the issues raised by Marilyn. Those are important issues about the relationship with workplace training and how the different elements of funding fit together. I have looked closely at the FAST-TRAC proposals and a lot of material has been passed to me by Roger Mullin, who is part of the Inter-ed company, and other contacts in Fife. That material has been made available to the committee. I have been fascinated by the innovation involved and level of agreement on the issue. However, I do not share Marilyn's optimism that that model has been extended throughout the country."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155208",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 155208,
      "EditedText": "I qualify what I said. Whether such good practice will actually be extended is a big issue. In effect, three issues have attracted members: the economic development services; workplace training and a coherent education and training strategy; and issues relating to rating revaluation. We could not do the economic development services review without touching on the issues raised by Marilyn, and we certainly cannot do it before Christmas. I put into the pot the suggestion that we draw those points together and conduct an inquiry into the delivery at a local level of local economic development and further education and training services in Scotland. That could be a longer inquiry, taking us beyond the turn of the year—we could not do it justice in three evidence-taking sessions. The clerks could look at when it would be credible to conduct all the necessary inquiries and come to conclusions. In the interim, we could do the exercise on rating revaluation that was suggested by a couple of members."
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155212",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 155212,
      "EditedText": "Are you quite comfortable with my proposal about drawing those two areas together?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155214",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 155214,
      "EditedText": "Do you agree that it will incorporate some of the other issues anyway? Practically nothing will be left out."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155218",
    "Meeting": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 155218,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that the Local Government Committee is debating local government funding, including rating. That is the relevant place to debate those matters."
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  {
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 155219,
      "EditedText": "It is considering the broad issue, George."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 155220,
      "EditedText": "There will need to be discussions with colleagues on the Local Government Committee. There is no point in our work overlapping."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 155224,
      "EditedText": "I knew that the European Committee had been considering this question, but I did not know how closely. That is helpful to know. I will speak to Hugh Henry about the views of this committee. We do not want to overlap with the work of other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 155227,
      "EditedText": "It is hardly academic to the business community to whom rates are paid. That statement ought to be corrected for the record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 155228,
      "EditedText": "It is the rate that is important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 155230,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I see our programme as being fixed. We have taken on a big programme of work and—dare I say it—we cannot have our cake and eat it. We had a list of items for discussion and investigation, all of which had merit. It is natural that some issues could not end up on the work programme. I hope that we are confident that we have a good work programme. It is all very well speaking to other committees, but if we open up the question of the work programme again, it may be for priorities other than the business rate. If we have any other time, my preferred add-on might be the European regional aid map or some other issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4015197+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 155233,
      "EditedText": "We have had a good discussion. We are largely agreed that we will undertake a substantial inquiry into the delivery of local economic development services and into the organisations that carry out that work. Additionally, as part of that inquiry, we will examine how workplace training is delivered and supported as a key part of the economic development strategy.I will draw up a detailed remit, send it to members, ideally by e-mail—or e-commerce, if you prefer—and seek comments and agreement on it from members. I will want the remit to be formally approved as the first item on the agenda of our meeting in two weeks' time but, in consultation with the clerks, I would like individual agreement to the contents of the remit—and any comments or suggested alterations—in the next 48 hours. That will help us to define how we carry out the exercise. If the methodology for agreeing the remit is acceptable, I will now take views from members on what people who wish to make representations to us we should see first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 155237,
      "EditedText": "I have noted that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 155240,
      "EditedText": "Not by this Christmas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 3525,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 3525,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 155244,
      "EditedText": "That was a guru-like comment. Laughter. If we have bullet points on interim reports or comments on relevant matters, and if people recognise the work that the committee is doing, nobody will expect us to report quickly and people will not be disappointed in us if we do not report quickly. The essence of the Parliament's work is to do things properly. If we are seen to be doing our work, we should not feel that we have to hit a deadline."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 155249,
      "EditedText": "This issue is a matter of principle and concerns the duality of conveners' roles. Three committees are affected and it is not a matter that relates specifically to you. I understand that the issue was raised with the Presiding Officer and that undertakings were given that the conveners involved would do their best to separate the two roles. It is an important issue for the committees, and there will be times when great strain will be put on you, convener, if the committee comes to a different view to that of your party—whether on scrutinising the Executive or in an individual area of inquiry. It may be difficult in such cases for you to articulate the committee's findings.This should be taken out of the political field. The Procedures Committee is there to consider issues such as this one, and I suggest that we should ask them to do so. It can come to a conclusion on whether there needs to be a change, or whether simply monitoring the situation is the way to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 155250,
      "EditedText": "If there is a proposal to refer the matter to the Procedures Committee, I would be happy to second it. There is a danger that all our discussions on lifelong learning and the enterprise network could be lost in an argument over a procedural issue. We had an informal discussion on this matter at our last meeting. Unless there has been a change of position in the interim, there is still a dispute in the committee on the efficacy of people combining the roles of committee convener and party spokesman—whether those roles can be combined. We must ensure that the committee's independent view is articulated, as opposed to the party political interests that obviously pervade all our discussions. I agree entirely with George that this is not a political matter, but a matter of the long-term interests of the Parliament as a whole.Given that there is a dispute in the committee, it would be correct to refer this matter to the Procedures Committee, so that it can give a view to us and to the Parliament. That is why it is there. That committee could have a look at the matter, and consider not just our point of view but those of the other committees that could be affected.There is a problem, and it is as much a problem for the media as it is for us. Television has a particular problem in distinguishing between the two roles that you, convener, and others adopt: the roles of convener of a committee and of party political spokesman in the chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 155255,
      "EditedText": "Oh dear—Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 155257,
      "EditedText": "I want to put on the record my view that I do not have a problem with John as convener. I was concerned about other issues over the summer, but I have complete confidence in John Swinney's handling of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 3526,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3526,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 155258,
      "EditedText": "Let me draw this public discussion of members' views to a close.I was immensely privileged to be elected convener of this committee. At that time, I indicated that I wanted to ensure that I worked purposefully with all members of the committee to make a difference to policy making in Scotland. I followed that approach over the summer and I certainly intend to carry on with it. I support the referral of this issue to the Procedures Committee for a resolution. If it cannot be resolved, its effects will be felt beyond this committee, as it is a parliamentary issue. The Procedures Committee will have to advise and report back to Parliament, and I will welcome that report.I wish to clarify the issue. It was raised in two tranches, the first being over the summer, when the Presiding Officer sought assurances from the three conveners who are front-bench spokespeople. I was happy to assure him that I will be absolutely fair and impartial when I conduct the business of this committee. There will obviously be times when I perform as a party political animal elsewhere in pursuit of my party's agenda, but I will distinguish between those two roles and I am happy to give that assurance to the committee.More recently, it was suggested that the issue should be referred to the Standards Committee. The Presiding Officer and the Convener of the Standards Committee advised me that the issue has nothing to do with the Standards Committee, as the Parliament has no rules on it. The proper course of action is to refer it to the Procedures Committee, which I am happy to do. My election as convener was unanimous and I particularly appreciated George Lyon's action in seconding my nomination, which I felt stressed the cross-party nature of the election. I also serve on the Finance Committee and I was happy to second the nomination of Mike Watson as convener of that committee. Before the committee decided to elect me in June, I had been the SNP spokesperson on enterprise and lifelong learning for a month, and my position has not changed. As a Parliament and as a set of committees, we must decide how we are going to operate and we have found some ways of doing that ourselves. We must also examine what happens in other places. In the Welsh Assembly, the chair of the Health and Social Services Committee is the Liberal Democrat spokesman on health, yet the issue has not been raised in that Parliament. There are comparators in new democratic institutions, where such roles coexist quite happily.Duncan was right when he said that the issue was out of the box. However, it is being referred to the Procedures Committee, which we can allow to resolve it. I want to ensure that this committee is allowed to get its teeth into its work programme and remit without distractions and to add value to policy making in Scotland. I will write to the Convener of the Procedures Committee to ask his committee to examine the issue. The next item is a proposal for a Scottish utilities forum. The paper is fairly self-explanatory. The idea of the Scottish utilities forum came from joint discussion between the Executive and the utility companies and there is mutual enthusiasm for the initiative. The forum will draw together the utilities, officials from the Scottish Executive, some members from our committee and possibly from other committees, and other organisations that have an interest in energy and consumer issues.We have been asked to submit suggested nominees to the forum; four MSPs are required. We anticipate involvement from the Transport and the Environment Committee, which shares an interest. I want to offer two nominees from the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee to join the utilities forum. We will throw open the issue for discussion in order to identify two members who are willing to do that on behalf of the committee.I suggest Allan Wilson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 15 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 820
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-15T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 155259,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the utilities. The question arises as to why water was not incorporated within the proposal. That is something that I would like to learn a wee bit more about. I can think of some reasons why water might not be included, but I can think of other reasons why it should be."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C155264",
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      "ID": 820
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Simon Watkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
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      "EditedText": "I can find out some more about the background to that. The only information that we have is the view that the minister took—in a letter that we circulated to members—that the water authorities had a separate and distinctive reporting and accounting system, which is why there were omitted from the forum. We can pursue that further, if members are interested."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155265",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 155265,
      "EditedText": "To amplify that, the paper for the proposal brought together the chief executives of electricity, water and gas, but it appears that water has been dropped from the agenda for some reason."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155266",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
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      "EditedText": "If it would help, I would be happy to write to the minister, on behalf of the committee, to raise that issue.Allan has been nominated. Are any other members interested in taking part?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155268",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 155268,
      "EditedText": "The permanent representative feels as if he is on his way to the United Nations. He is not quite there yet, but it is only a matter of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155269",
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      "ID": 820
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 155269,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to be in permanent session with the utilities."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155279",
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 155279,
      "EditedText": "Is the committee agreed that the representatives should be Fergus Ewing and Allan Wilson? That is agreed."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155283",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 155283,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is a visit by the Public Accounts Committee of the New South Wales Parliament. In case members have misunderstood, this does not involve a trip to New South Wales—or at least, not yet.The representatives of the PAC in New South Wales are coming to Scotland to consider various issues that touch on the remit of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. They are particularly interested in inward and outward investment. I am happy to meet those representatives when they visit the Parliament and any other members who are interested in taking part are welcome to do so.Members should advise the clerk if they are planning to attend on 6 October.The final issue on the agenda is the Industry and Parliament Trust. The paper highlights the purpose of the trust, which has a history of operation in Westminster. Members of Parliament are encouraged to understand and appreciate issues in relation to the wider business and economic community. I have not participated before, although I have heard many favourable comments about the work of the Industry and Parliament Trust. However, it is a bit of a commitment in terms of time.The issue for the committee is whether we support the initiative in principle or whether we are prepared to allocate members to assist in the development of the proposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.4171444+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155290",
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      "ID": 820
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      "ID": 121
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 155290,
      "EditedText": "Nick has a background in business and industry and might be a useful source of input."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155291",
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      "ID": 820
    },
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 155291,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on Nick and Elaine? What about Allan?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155295",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
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      "EditedText": "Is it agreed that the representatives will be Marilyn Livingstone, Elaine Thomson and Nick Johnston? That is agreed.That concludes today's business. We will meet in two weeks' time, when our first item will be to agree the remit of the committee. After that, we will start to make progress on the conduct of the inquiry."
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  {
    "ID": "C155296",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:53."
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  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19274,
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      "ID": 19274,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 638347,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this public meeting of the Subordinate Legislation Committee. I should indicate at the outset that we intend to change the agenda so that matters can be dealt with appropriately. As we will now address Executive responses first, items 4 and 5 will be taken before items 1, 2 and 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638348",
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      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control)<br />(No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/32)<br />Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
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      "EditedText": "Let us begin with item 4. We have an Executive response to these two pieces of subordinate legislation. The letters have been commented on and we have had the benefit of advice from our lawyers. It has been flagged up that the response is not all that it should be, given the serious representations that we made and our view on the implications with regard to retrospectivity and penal sanctions.There are various options available. Obviously, it is possible to request another Executive response, but the time scale makes that difficult. Do members have a view on how we should proceed?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C638354",
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      "ID": 3612
    },
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      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control)<br />(No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/32)<br />Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 19275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Rankin (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 638354,
      "EditedText": "I could raise that with the business team in the chamber office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/41)<br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/42)",
      "HeadingID": 19276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ID": 19276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 638356,
      "EditedText": "The position on these orders is much the same as before. The response from the Executive is similar to that which was dealt with in item 4. Do we want to take similar action?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/41)<br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/42)",
      "HeadingID": 19276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ID": 19276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 638358,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that we can ask the clerk to write that we do this more in sorrow than in anger, and to make clear how seriously we think this should be viewed by Parliament and by the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19277,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 19277,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 638361,
      "EditedText": "I endorse the first half of Fergus's contribution, in which he drew attention to our concern that there has been a substantive delay in the laying of these regulations.This is the second time in a couple of weeks that we have considered European legislation for which the date on which we were supposed to have met our obligations and enacted them into law had long since passed. It is appropriate that we ask for an explanation of that delay. If it were to await the Scottish Parliament coming into being and being able to express a view, it would seem illogical for the regulations to have been laid only three days before they come into force, which is what happened on this occasion. We are, therefore, due an explanation of why the time between the laying of the regulations and their coming into force was so short. If it was to allow this Parliament to express a view on them, how was that possible within such a short time scale?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19277,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 19277,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 638362,
      "EditedText": "I would also like an explanation of the phrase \"presentationally important\" to describe why the regulations came into force in Scotland and in England and Wales on the same date. As I understand it, that is not a requirement. Perhaps the European Committee would also like that explained."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19277,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 19277,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 638364,
      "EditedText": "Will you also take up the point about consultation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 19278,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 19278,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 638366,
      "EditedText": "These regulations caused us some concern in the pre-meeting, in which we discussed the limitations on our remit. Although we are not permitted to consider policy, as a sifting committee we are required to flag up matters that may cause problems. Each of us has been e-mailed by the Law Society about a substantial problem that could arise as a result of these regulations. Do members have any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control)<br />(No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/32)<br />Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 19275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 638349,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we bring the instruments to the attention of the Parliament and of the lead committee. We should say that we are not happy with the situation and that they should look at it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control)<br />(No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/32)<br />Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 19275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 638350,
      "EditedText": "I support that. The other options available to us—a further written response and oral evidence—are not appropriate because of the time scale. In view of the seriousness with which last week we as a committee regarded this issue—the instruments may affect only a limited number of individuals, but the consequences could be serious—we should seek to lay down a marker for how we wish to see such matters dealt with. Accordingly, as Ian said, we should bring this to the attention of the Parliament and of the lead committee. Is that the committee's view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control)<br />(No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/32)<br />Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 19275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 638353,
      "EditedText": "Is that acceptable to you, Alasdair, as committee clerk? We want to ensure that Parliament realises why we take a serious view of this matter, and that we are not simply being truculent for the sake of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/41)<br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/42)",
      "HeadingID": 19276,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ID": 19276,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 638357,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we do the same thing. I hope that this is a bedding-down process, and that we will not need to take this action more than once."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19277,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 19277,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 638363,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point.Further to the advice that we have had from the lawyers, Fergus and Bristow have suggested that we request an explanation of why there has been a delay in the laying of the regulations. We want clarification of the time limits that are referred to in the regulations, an explanation of the purpose of regulation 2(3)(b), which appears to reproduce regulation 25(9), and clarification of various minor drafting points, which we are entitled to seek. That relates to regulations 5(1), 7(1) and 7(8). We will also pursue the point that David raised.Before we move on to the next item, are there any other comments on these regulations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/50)",
      "HeadingID": 19279,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ID": 19279,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 638369,
      "EditedText": "Consideration of this order is the final item on the agenda. Legal advice is that no particular problems arise and that we as a committee should be satisfied with the order. The lead committee should be left to consider policy implications. If members have no comments, we will simply note that. Members are agreed. That brings the meeting to a conclusion. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/50)",
      "HeadingID": 19279,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ID": 19279,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 638370,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:29."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19274,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19274,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638346,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:15"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control)<br />(No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/32)<br />Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 19275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 638351,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that. In this initial period, it is important that we take a hard line on these issues, to ensure that errors do not become endemic. We must make it clear that we want best practice. That is the way in which we should proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control)<br />(No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/32)<br />Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 19275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 638355,
      "EditedText": "Certainly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19277,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 19277,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 638359,
      "EditedText": "We move to item 1 on the agenda. Fergus, you had some concerns about this matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19277,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 19277,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 638365,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I apologise for failing to mention that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 19278,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 19278,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 638367,
      "EditedText": "I have a point to make about the revised definition of the start date of a trial. Dates and time limits are at the heart of the Scottish criminal legal system. It is fair and appropriate that we ask that these regulations be fully considered with that in mind, so that there are no unforeseen knock-on effects; for example, witnesses failing to appear at trials. We should seek specific reassurance on that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Criminal Legal Aid (Fixed Payments) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/48)",
      "HeadingID": 19278,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ID": 19278,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 638368,
      "EditedText": "I agree with David. We would be neglecting our duties if, as the responsible committee of the Parliament, we did not flag up a potential problem. This may be a genuine error, or it may be something that the Executive has considered and is intent on pursuing. The Executive is entitled to do that, but if there has been a genuine error, we would be in dereliction of duty if we did not signal that to the Executive and, at the same time, draw it to the attention of the lead committee. If we do not, there is a danger that the lead committee will simply nod the regulations through. We should try to alert our colleagues elsewhere of problems.We were unsure whether the new provisions would apply to work in progress. We may be able to seek clarification about when they will be viewed as having commenced and how they will affect people who are making a claim under the regulations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control)<br />(No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999<br />(SSI 1999/32)<br />Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 19275,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19275,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 638352,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what Ian Jenkins and David Mundell have said. It might be appropriate to consider inviting the Executive to make an explanatory statement in the business bulletin, for the benefit not just of the members of this committee but of all members of the Parliament. That will make members aware of the dangers of retrospective legislation and familiar with the issues that we, by virtue of being on this committee, have had to grapple with over the past few weeks. That would serve the Parliament well and might ensure that there is no repetition of what has occurred in this case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4793685+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3612
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/43)",
      "HeadingID": 19277,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 19277,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 638360,
      "EditedText": "I understand from our legal advisers that this statutory instrument was made under section 2(2) of the European Communities Act 1972, and that the due date for implementation of the relevant European directive has long since passed. The Minister for Rural Affairs has indicated that there has been an unacceptable delay in laying the instrument before the Parliament, which is a matter for concern. We should find out why the delay arose in this case.Yesterday evening I studied these regulations in some detail. I wonder—given that there has been a delay of two years—whether a further 21 days, which might have allowed some consultation, would have made a great deal of difference. Could the Executive advise this committee what consultation there has been with bodies that have an interest in, for example, the definition of \"relevant projects\"? Such bodies may well quibble with the thresholds of 2 and 5 hectares set out in schedule 2 and, indeed, with some of powers—which can be described as draconian—laid down in regulations 6(2) and 7(5).Has the Executive consulted with the National Farmers Union, the Timber Growers Association and timber merchants organisations? Has there been consultation with the Law Society of Scotland on the provisions in paragraph 19, which give the Court of Session exclusive jurisdiction over whether a copse of trees is a relevant project? The Law Society may feel that we would have to wait several hundred years before a crofter went to the Court of Session to litigate in such a matter, and ask why sheriff courts have not been given jurisdiction.I do not want to stray into the substantive elements of these regulations, but I have flagged up a few areas in which some consultation would have been important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4793685+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ContributionID": 417992,
      "EditedText": "With respect, we heard from the prison officers and from Mr Fairweather that there is no specialist training for officers at Cornton Vale. That seems to be at the core of the problem in relation to young offenders and women prisoners who have special, individual difficulties. I picked up on that this morning; we must address that problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 417955,
      "EditedText": "In procedural terms, is that like a deferred sentence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3233078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 417751,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. Like you, I find the report damning on Longriggend and the strange mix of people there. I come to information about the Prison Service as a civil lawyer—an ordinary punter—and I am appalled to find that Longriggend has such a mixture of young males on remand, people who are about to be deported and adult prisoners. Despite what you say in the report about the new governor, who appears to be working hard against a bad system, the lack of a national strategy for young offenders seems to be the paramount problem, covering drugs and the other things that we have been talking about. Your briefing notes say:\"The SPS should publish a more coherent policy for young offenders, especially the selection and training of prison officers\".The report also says much about the state of the building at Longriggend. Will Dr Loucks describe what would be required of a national strategy? Our approach seems to be piecemeal. We need to do something when we catch young offenders, to prevent them from becoming recidivists who are in the system permanently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 417881,
      "EditedText": "Could you develop that point? Do you want to have continuing meetings, or what?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2249415+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 417885,
      "EditedText": "From your experience, do you agree with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2249415+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11185,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11185,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 417718,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:35"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 417724,
      "EditedText": "On overcrowding, I note that your report states that 60 places are out of service for policy reasons. Could you define policy reasons? The report also suggests that, despite the overprovision of places—that is the gentle phrase—Barlinnie prison is 32 per cent overcrowded. Why is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 417726,
      "EditedText": "With the greatest of respect, according to your report, only 101 of the total number of prison places available are out of use because of refurbishment. Unless all 101 places are at Barlinnie, refurbishment is not a major cause for overcrowding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mike Crossan (Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons for Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 417728,
      "EditedText": "There have been significant developments since the publication of the report. Probably the most important one was the opening of HMP Kilmarnock, which was not fully operational on 31 March but is now providing 500 additional prisoner places. Barlinnie benefited probably more than any other establishment in Scotland from that. I know that the period is too short to justify talking about a trend but, as a result of Kilmarnock opening, overcrowding at Barlinnie does not exist, according to the recent statistics.Over time, Kilmarnock has become fully operational. It has now taken its full capacity of almost 500 prisoners. Because of that, Barlinnie has been operating at approximately 98 to 99 per cent of its capacity for the past two months, if we take into account the number of places that are unavailable to the governor. The operating capacity with regard to the number of available spaces is in the region of 93 to 94 per cent.There are small pockets of overcrowding in some establishments—in Cornton Vale and in Perth, for example—but that is due to the refurbishment programme. Overall, there now seems to be alignment between the prison population and the available capacity, despite the number of places that are out of use for a variety of reasons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 417729,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that the institutions that were between 10 and 15 per cent overcrowded at the time of the inspections—Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Inverness, Polmont and Greenock, for example—were overcrowded for the same reason?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 417732,
      "EditedText": "The figures apply to 31 March. We try, in addition, to take an average figure over the year for those institutions that were significantly overcrowded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 417734,
      "EditedText": "Drugs are a huge problem. That is a subject in itself, but I will try to keep to examples. As I said in my initial remarks, the reason why the problem is so great is that a lot of people are arriving from the community with a drugs problem. Overcrowding was a central issue, but it has now been addressed. Drugs come into the frame after that. Of course, drugs misuse leads to more crime, which feeds back into the circle of overcrowding. It is also, because of drug debt, at the root of a lot of violence, and in some instances is connected to suicide. We cannot look very far into prisons without coming across the issue of drugs misuse.What goes on in each prison is different. I could not say that all prisons have the same drug problems. That comes down to where the people come from, where the prison is, the history of the prison and whether the prison is an open one. At one end of the scale, Cornton Vale has a huge drug problem in terms of when individuals arrive. However, positive results in mandatory drug tests stand at around 8 per cent, so the level of drug taking in that prison is not particularly high. On the other hand, in Aberdeen, 80 per cent of prisoners say that they have a drug problem on admission and 90 per cent of young offenders say that they were taking something before they arrived. However, the mandatory drugs testing figures are down in the region of 39 per cent, which indicates that the prison is having some effect on the level of drug taking.Dungavel has had a huge effect on the incidence of drugs misuse. When we first went there in January 1998, the random mandatory drugs test figures stood at about 61 per cent. When we went this year, that figure was down to 11 per cent; there had been an enormous change. I am told that, as of today, the percentage is down in single figures. Dungavel is perhaps unusual, as it is poised between closed conditions and open conditions—provided that prisoners do their stint and are drug free, they can go on to open conditions and eventually return to the community. By using that incentive, and by substantially reducing the supply of drugs at visits through improved intelligence and so on, the incidence of drug use in the prison has fallen dramatically.The use of medical services can be a helpful indicator of how much the problem of drugs misuse has changed. When we first went to Glenochil prison, we found that the medical services were inundated with prisoners with all sorts of complaints. That number has fallen by 50 per cent, which suggests to me that the incidence of drugs misuse has come down.You asked what more could be done. That depends on the type of prison. I am a little concerned that, although long-term prisons such as Glenochil and Shotts have good systems for dealing with prisoners and their addictions—including alcohol—young offenders institutions such as Polmont have relatively low mandatory drugs testing figures, which means that the resources to tackle education and rehabilitation are not as great as they are elsewhere. That is why young offenders institutions should be more of a priority.The same applies to short-term prisoners, by which I do not mean those who are in for a few days. In the past, the Prison Service has rightly concentrated on long-term persistent offenders and long-term addicts. Now, however, we need to shift some of the resources towards young offenders and short-termers. Does that give some sense of what we are looking for?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 417736,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are all struck by the enormous disparities from prison to prison, which, to the objective layman, is puzzling—one would imagine that there would be national strategies. When we see such disparities, it is hard to understand what it is about certain institutions that creates good results, while other institutions have poor figures. Clearly, the issue is complicated, but can you encapsulate in a couple of sentences how this enormous disparity comes about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 417742,
      "EditedText": "If, as you say, drugs have now replaced overcrowding as the central problem in Scottish prisons, should not all establishments make a concerted effort to address their drugs problems, so that people, particularly young offenders, can enter a drug-free environment or at least have the opportunity to come off drugs before they are returned to the community? Is not this an ideal opportunity to put in place the kind of programmes that are perhaps missing in the wider community?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairbairn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 417746,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairbairn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 417755,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It is being recognised that a young offender is not a small adult prisoner. In the past, it was assumed that what worked for a particular group should work for the rest. We need to recognise the differences between adolescents and people of 25 or 35."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 417759,
      "EditedText": "It is coming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 417764,
      "EditedText": "I come late to the discussion; you have already answered many of my questions on the drug problems in Scottish prisons. You mentioned addiction advisers. Could you tell us a little more about that idea? Secondly, I am particularly interested in education for prisoners, once they are within the four walls."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 417766,
      "EditedText": "Can you comment on education?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 417769,
      "EditedText": "We need to tighten the links between prisons, covering individuals who are moved from one prison to another. However, links are improving through the use of information technology. Education programmes should also be the same in each prison. An excellent co-ordinator at the Prison Service headquarters is pointing the education programmes in that direction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 417770,
      "EditedText": "Many people go into prison for very short periods, which might have a bearing on both overcrowding and management of the drug problem, as people who go into prison for a short time provide a route for drugs. I share the view that we should do something about short sentences and that we should not imprison people for fine defaults or for very short periods. Does Mr Fairweather have a view on that? I appreciate that, in a sense, it is not his remit, but I am interested in his view on how the management of prisons is affected by short sentences."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 417771,
      "EditedText": "I will turn to my advisers, both of whom have had to manage prisoners on short sentences. Mr Jackson is right to say that his question does not fall within my remit, which is to examine prison conditions. However, my personal view on individuals who are inside for four or five days is that I have my doubts about what can be done with them in a few days. My fingers have been burned a couple of times on the issue of fine defaulters. When one digs deeper into the matter, one finds that in many cases individuals such as women prisoners in Cornton Vale have not been imprisoned for fine defaults alone. The fine default charge might be in addition to many others. I am not vehement about whether it is a good way of dealing with people who have been charged with fine default, as normally it is more complicated than that. Many individuals who have short sentences, such as those at Low Moss, are completing long sentences by instalment. Some of the prisoners in Low Moss are in and out regularly, which produces the problem of what is done with them over such short periods. Should resources be committed to providing them with drug education and so on? I am not talking about prisoners who are in for a matter of days—we need to shift more resources towards action on drug misuse and so on for those who are doing time of perhaps three or four months.I ask Mike Crossan to address that point, as he has been in Barlinnie for some time and has seen the 200 prisoners who arrive every Monday and what is done with them thereafter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 417773,
      "EditedText": "What percentage of the prison population has sentences of under 30 days—that is, prisoners who are inside for a very short turnaround—at any one time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Crossan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 417774,
      "EditedText": "We do not keep statistics for sentences of under 30 days—I think that the inspectorate's statistics are for sentences of under a year. It is unfortunate that we do not have that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairbairn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 417781,
      "EditedText": "The issue is not so much about numbers. The Barlinnie prisoners tend to come when the courts rise and people are taken up to the prison. The prison must then process those people quickly and deal with the immediate situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairbairn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 417783,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It is peaks and troughs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 417787,
      "EditedText": "I am going to allow this discussion to run on a wee bit. I am conscious that we are running over the time that we allocated unofficially, but many members still want to ask questions. I certainly would like to follow up what Mr Fairweather has just talked about; what he describes in his report as the vulnerable population in Cornton Vale. I have read some of the summaries of Dr Loucks's research. Dr Loucks, will you say a few words about the complex history that so many of those women exhibit? From your research, I understand that about 82 per cent of the inmates have experienced abuse: that includes 46.7 per cent who have been sexually abused and 60 per cent who have been physically abused. Will you tell us a little about the nature of the population in Cornton Vale and the demands that are put on the prison system if we use prison as a way of dealing with those women?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 417789,
      "EditedText": "What kind of drugs? Is it the same pattern of drug taking as for male prisoners?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 417791,
      "EditedText": "Does Dr Loucks call shoplifting petty crime? Once again, I would say that it was a multimillion-pound crime."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Loucks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 417792,
      "EditedText": "A much higher proportion of women are involved in shoplifting; a disproportionate amount are involved in shoplifting as opposed to other types of offences. Those are the types of offences that would not normally merit a custodial sentence. The women end up in custody because of repeat shoplifting, often, for example, to feed a drug habit. It is not that shoplifting is not a serious crime; it is that the types of crimes that they are committing would not normally justify a custodial sentence. They keep on coming back because of reasons unrelated to the offence; they are committing those crimes to feed drug abuse, for example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 417794,
      "EditedText": "I was the author of that part of the report. The report, \"Women Offenders—A Safer Way\", said that the aim of the various strategies was to reduce the number of suicides and people dying in Cornton Vale. The goal was to try to reduce the population, which was then about 170, to less than 100 by the end of 2000. I felt that that was an attractive and realisable figure in terms of the seriousness of the offences for which individuals were in Cornton Vale. I thought that it was an aim that would catch the imagination. I did not necessarily feel that it was realisable in that time scale, but thought that nevertheless we should try to achieve it. It must be made clear that the Government did not sign up to that part. It signed up to recommendation 6, that there should be no under-18s in prison by 2000. I think that the minister agreed with the general sentiment of the report, but I do not think that the Government signed up to that phrase. Considering it now, I think that we should still aim in that direction. As of last week, the population was around 200. The rise could be because of a blip, or because of more serious offences by women—there is a slight indication that it could be because of that—or it could even be because of a harsher sentencing climate. It is too early to say. What would seem to be happening is that the number of women, in particular young women, either being remanded or being sent to prison is on the increase."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 417795,
      "EditedText": "Ministers support the idea that women under 18 should not be in prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 417799,
      "EditedText": "I recognise that that is a snapshot. In any one year, how many young women under 18 could the Prison Service expect to have through its doors?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Loucks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 417800,
      "EditedText": "In any one year, we expected 30 to 35 young women under 18 to be received into custody. When we started the research, we expected 10 to 15 to come through, but almost double the number that we expected—28—came into custody. There were 28 young women, but 42 separate receptions as some of them had come in two or three times. There is also concern that most of those women were received into custody on remand. That is different from what is happening in England and Wales, where the higher proportion of young women coming into custody are coming in for a sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 417801,
      "EditedText": "I want to change the subject. I am interested in the Prison Service's attitude to prisoners who have a complaint about either their treatment or the conditions. How seriously are such complaints taken? What is the process and is it effective?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 417802,
      "EditedText": "I do not deal with individual complaints. When I started, I got quite a few of them and I found myself saying, \"Sorry, I do not deal with individual complaints. I can only listen and pass them on.\" Then an independent complaints commissioner was appointed. The most recent incumbent has just left after four successful years. He and the system have produced an effective way of reducing the temperature in prison. I have not come across many complaints about the way in which complaints are processed. They are processed quickly and fairly and an answer comes back —although not always the answer that the prisoner wants—that addresses the prisoner's complaints. The independent commissioner publishes a separate report. As I have said on several occasions, I believe that the independent complaints commissioner system has accounted for a reduction in temperature. We examine the process as part of our inspection, to see whether it is operating, whether people can make a complaint, and whether those complaints are dealt with properly. In the earlier stages, we occasionally found that some of the forms were misunderstood or mishandled. Occasionally in the past we have also come across individuals who have had difficulty in getting their complaint taken forward. However, unless I am looking at the situation through rose-tinted spectacles, my impression is that the system works extremely well. My professional support here will disagree with me if that is not the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairbairn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 417803,
      "EditedText": "The system is based on the fact that time scales for reply are laid down and monitored. That is one of the things that we do during our inspections. In the first instance, a prisoner can raise a written complaint with an officer, who must reply within 24 hours, either giving reasons why he accepts the prisoner's request and recognises that it is a legitimate complaint—in which case he must deal with the complaint—or saying that the complaint is not justified and for which reasons. The prisoner can then take the complaint to the next stage and tell the hall manager about the complaint, the reply that he has received and the reasons why he is not satisfied with it. The hall manager must then reply. If the prisoner is not satisfied with that response, the complaint goes to an internal complaints committee, which considers the complaint, hears what the prisoner has to say and makes a decision. If the prisoner is still not satisfied, he can complain to the prisons complaints commissioner, who will investigate and give a definitive response. If the matter is confidential, or if the prisoner wants to complain about something for which he fears he may be victimised, there is an additional facility for the prisoner to write to the governor confidentially. The governor must then reply within a set time scale. The Prison Service monitors the progress of complaints in every establishment to check that the system is working and that replies are given within the set time scales. When we conduct our inspections, we take a sample of those complaints and follow them through to see the quality of the replies. Generally, we are satisfied that the system is working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 417804,
      "EditedText": "Each prison also has an independently appointed visiting committee, which looks into more minor complaints. I am reasonably satisfied with the system. When I first became chief inspector, I got quite a lot of complaints, but now, when I talk to groups of prisoners, rarely does someone complain. I make myself available to prisoners by standing about, away from the others, in the hope that somebody will come and tell me something, but it does not happen that often."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 417808,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we publish prisoners' views in our reports as well as whether we agree with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 417809,
      "EditedText": "Do you publish figures on the number of complaints, whether successful or unsuccessful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 417816,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for speaking to us this morning. I am aware that there are a great many more questions and that all of us are probably conscious that we have only scratched the surface. I hope that you have not found the meeting too much of an ordeal, as it is highly likely that the committee will want to speak to you again. We are all aware that there are a huge number of issues to be addressed. We might need to consider how we can focus on some specific aspects. Thank you for bearing with us for somewhat longer than was originally indicated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Derek Turner (General Secretary, Scottish Prison Officers Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 417819,
      "EditedText": "Training can always be enhanced. The basic training that prison officers receive when they are first inducted into the Prison Service is adequate for the first two years to allow them to operate as prison officers. The problem in the Prison Service is that, once in place, those staff make up part of the prison's full staff complement. Additional training is therefore a problem, unless they can be relieved of their duties. Many training variables are built into the complement of each establishment, including statutory training, such as training in control and restraint, short duration breathing apparatus and suicide prevention. If staff are taken away for periods of time for that training, there is very little time left for other training. Problems of resources and of releasing staff to take part arise if additional training needs are imposed on establishments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 417820,
      "EditedText": "Does the training itself impose a burden on the staff who must fill in while colleagues are training?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 417821,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 417825,
      "EditedText": "We have always believed that officers in the Prison Service should be multiskilled, and that they should be flexible and able to work in all areas. We also believe that they should be able to specialise in areas that they choose and that they should be given adequate specialist training in order that they can do so. We have no problem with that and would welcome that development. The problem is one of resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 417827,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that I may wish to come back to another issue, but I will start with a question about staff turnover.I notice that staff turnover is 78 per cent per year, but what surprises me most is that 53 per cent of those who leave have chosen, for one reason or another, not to work through to retirement. They leave through choice. Given that these days the Prison Service offers one of the best careers in terms of promotion and in its degree of permanence, why do so many join the service and then opt out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 417833,
      "EditedText": "In the first instance, we are generally consulted a lot about programmes for those joining the system as prison officers. We welcome that opportunity, but we find that we are often not consulted so closely as things develop and as changes are made. It comes to us as a surprise to see changes later on. What we would welcome is to be involved from the earliest stages in working partnership with the Prison Service so that we can develop those processes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 417834,
      "EditedText": "I read the paper that we received from you about mandatory drug testing and the residential role in prisons. I was struck by comments that were made at the end of that paper. Despite your very careful wording, there is an implicit criticism of a policy of the Scottish Prison Service. The paper states that there is concern about the possibility that the process of mandatory drug testing and group work programmes might be dismantled and broken down into individual components to save a pound or two here and there.Could you elaborate a little on that, because it is not entirely clear to me what is being said? Although you are positive about mandatory drug testing, you clearly have concerns about the way that that is going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 417835,
      "EditedText": "Mandatory drug testing was put in place in a hail of publicity and we supported that initiative because we wanted to do what we could to alleviate the drug problem in prisons. That is the responsibility of us all.Mandatory drug testing started off with the right amount of enthusiasm, although without, perhaps, the right amount of resources to put it in place and get things right. The original concept required that support mechanisms be in place before mandatory drug testing was rolled out. In that way individuals could be identified and passed on to the programme for support and rehabilitation.The officers who carry out the testing are D-banded residential status officers. We now find that there are proposals from management to downgrade that testing to C-banded operational officers. We do not understand why this is necessary because the D-banded officers should be the first step in identifying individuals and assisting them into the programmes. There should be a more integrated approach to mandatory drug testing, supported by the residential officers.The paper is designed to highlight our case for retaining performance of mandatory drug testing by D-banded officers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 417840,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that testing is being devolved to less experienced staff and to those who are less streetwise—which might not be the right term to use regarding prisons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 417843,
      "EditedText": "It is an arbitrary decision that has been taken by Prison Service management."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 417847,
      "EditedText": "On occasion that is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C417856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 417856,
      "EditedText": "Did it affect turnover?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 417857,
      "EditedText": "It may well have done. If people were working under that sort of pressure, that would be a factor that might cause them to leave their jobs.Talk of multiskilling takes us back to the argument of operational officer as opposed to residential officer. In the past, every officer did every task in the prison; they could work anywhere. Now we have demarcation lines. Some people specialise in certain areas: their training needs can be identified, they can participate in training courses, and they can apply for jobs that come up later. If we are to design programmes specifically for dealing with women offenders and young offenders, we will need to tailor them very specifically, identifying the people who want to participate and who are capable of doing the training.On many occasions, I find that the Prison Service is very good at developing good policies. We have dwelt on some of the negative aspects of the report but, overall, most of the report is a testament to the dedication and professionalism of staff in the Prison Service. I want to make that clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C417858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 417858,
      "EditedText": "Are you in favour of people being identified as having a specific aptitude?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 417859,
      "EditedText": "There is no point in developing a policy and not providing training before the policy is implemented. Proper resources must be made available. The resources must be identified as part of the strategic plan, and then, having identified the staff that require training, the training must be delivered. There is no point in expecting a policy to work without the proper resources and training having been provided."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 417866,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is a better way. The people in the front line, who are in constant contact with the prisoners, are the ones who should be dealing with such a major drug initiative."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 417867,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on Phil Gallie's point about prison officers' morale. From a trade union point of view, what are the priority issues? Do they include members' terms and conditions, and the devaluing and deskilling of the job, as has just been talked about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 417868,
      "EditedText": "A stress survey indicated that victimisation and bullying caused concern for staff. Other concerns that come up annually are performance-related pay and the personal performance programmes that members have to go through to get performance-related pay. Instead of being a motivator, performance-related pay in the Prison Service has been the exact opposite—a demotivator. For a lot of people, chances of promotion now seem to be diminished, which also causes low morale. People's ability to get other jobs in the service has been restricted as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 417871,
      "EditedText": "Earlier you mentioned a problem with pensions, Mr Turner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 417874,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it came to an end in 1987."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 417888,
      "EditedText": "Yes. To give an example, at Peterhead prison there was valuable prison officer involvement in the sex offender programme—the stop programme. As often as not, prison officers' knowledge can add a lot of depth to programmes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 417894,
      "EditedText": "I understand Mr Gallie's point of view. Prisons are a secure environment and it is easy to say that they should be drug free and that we should not let drugs in. However, we must all recognise the fact that ingenious methods are used to introduce drugs into prisons.Objects are sometimes thrown over prison walls, not just at Low Moss, but at Barlinnie and Peterhead. I have mentioned previously to the press the occasion on which a dead seagull, stuffed with drugs, was thrown over a prison wall for recovery by the people who clean up the grounds. During visits, drugs may also be hidden in a child's nappy or passed mouth to mouth. Do people want us to stop all kinds of contact during family visits? Doing so could cause further complications, because many incidents in prisons happen in visiting areas and officers may be injured during an attempt to pass drugs.As long as we have contact points and allow prisoners to contact their families, we will never stop drugs coming into prisons. Closed visits were quite draconian and caused as many problems as open visits cause now, but even in those days it was found that, during closed visits at Barlinnie, long syringes were sometimes passed through the grille to inject the prisoner on the other side. People will always find ingenious methods of introducing drugs into prisons and it would be naïve to believe that we will be able to stop that happening, whatever methods we use.As far as possible, we try to stop drugs being brought into prisons, but we must recognise that without draconian measures at contact points, we will not stop them completely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 417906,
      "EditedText": "I was alarmed to read that almost 50 per cent of prison officers who responded to the \"Work and Health in the Scottish Prison Service\" survey were concerned about long-term job security. Thirty-seven per cent thought that security was fair and 13 per cent thought that it was poor. The biggest identified threat to job security was privatisation of the Prison Service. Will Mr Turner expand on the problems of privatisation a wee bit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 417907,
      "EditedText": "Earlier, the committee discussed the contingency spaces that were out of use and why some overcrowding exists despite that. In 1991 or 1992, before Mr Frizzell took over as chief executive, a significant drop in prisoner numbers occurred compared with available spaces. It was suggested that Friarton prison could be closed and mothballed, then opened up in the future should numbers rise.The trade unions felt that that option was not feasible. Two things were at the back of our minds: a mothballed prison might be handed over to the private sector, or staff might not be available to open it up when required, as prisoner numbers can fluctuate quite quickly. We agreed to examine establishments throughout the system at which an area could feasibly be closed down and where, through natural wastage, some staff could be shed to satisfy the Treasury's needs in relation to the balance of numbers. That is why there are still some contingency places.It was also recognised that we needed a national contingency in case there was a riot; that fitted in quite well with the strategy at the time. Just before the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 was introduced, a staffing structure review took place in the Prison Service. Staff were told that if we did not examine the restructuring of the service and bring down the cost per prisoner place, there was a potential for four prisons in Scotland to be either market tested or privatised. That threat lingers with staff.In addition, the private prison at Kilmarnock was established and staff regard it as a potential threat for the future. Staff are worried because the private prison has a 30-year contract and has to be guaranteed the number of places that the taxpayer is paying for. If job losses occur in the Prison Service because prisoner numbers continue to fall, the staff's perception is that the losses will take place in the public sector prison service. That may well turn out to be the reality.Those are some of the issues that have had an impact over the years on staff's confidence in their job security."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 417909,
      "EditedText": "Meeting adjourned at 11:42."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 417911,
      "EditedText": "Would the representatives from Safeguarding Communities Reducing Offending like to introduce themselves and say what SACRO is about in two or three sentences? We are short of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417913",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Susan Matheson (Chief Executive, Safeguarding Communities Reducing Offending): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 417913,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for inviting SACRO to be here today. As I hope most of you know, SACRO aims to make communities safer by providing a range of services that reduce conflict and offending. Using the knowledge and experience that we gain from running those services, we seek to influence criminal justice and social policy. We could not have a better opportunity to do that than to be invited here to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 417916,
      "EditedText": "That is about the under-provision of sanitary facilities in our prisons. People do not always understand what slopping out means."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 417918,
      "EditedText": "I would like to come on to that point, Susan. You have rightly highlighted in your paper that Scotland has one of the highest percentage prison populations in Europe. That is extremely concerning. You also highlighted that many people in prison are—in your view—no danger to society, so there should be community alternatives for them. Can you talk about some of the community alternatives?I would also like to make the point that I addressed to Mr Fairweather, about the so-called target of halving the number of women in prison by 2000. I got the impression that that was not a firm commitment, just something that seemed a good idea at the time. That must be a target for the Prison Service and ministers. How will we achieve that target?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 417921,
      "EditedText": "There is only one bail hostel in Scotland and we do not know yet how well it is working. Not everybody has to go into a bail hostel; that is usually an option for high-risk people. In Edinburgh, courts have accepted that SACRO can be the address for people who are on bail, and that we will intensively supervise them. That means that we can begin immediately to address people's offending behaviour so that, by the time they come to court, the court can be given information about whether they can address their offending behaviour in the community or whether a custodial sentence would be more appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mackay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 417926,
      "EditedText": "That has something to do with the policies that surround 100 per cent funding for social work services to the criminal justice system. Each local authority establishes its own priorities for social work services. The range of services that they are able to provide and fund depends on local priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 417927,
      "EditedText": "So the availability of those services is determined by postcode?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mackay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 417928,
      "EditedText": "I do not know if that is how it pans out, but different local authorities have different priorities for the types of programme that they are willing to support. That is evidenced by the disparity of service provision that SACRO is able to deliver. For example, we have projects for mediation and reparation in some local authority areas, but not in others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 417931,
      "EditedText": "I know that SACRO does a lot of good work trying to persuade employers to take on people who are coming out of prison. It strikes me that one of the problems concerning repeat offenders who abuse drugs is that people are released from prison, meet up with their peers and are back into the drug culture before they have time to think. Does SACRO run any programmes to find work for such people in locations away from their homes, and would that help?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 417933,
      "EditedText": "With the greatest respect, I was not looking for an analysis of the drugs scene. I wanted to discuss the relationship between the release of prisoners, their involvement in work and the location into which they are released from prison. Does SACRO support released prisoners?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 417935,
      "EditedText": "Is SACRO able to do that across the country, or is that support subject to the problem of patchy provision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 417937,
      "EditedText": "It is interesting that an offender in Glasgow and an offender in similar circumstances in Edinburgh could end up being treated in completely different ways, simply because of the difference in service provision in two local authorities 45 miles apart."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 417938,
      "EditedText": "That is right. SACRO's vision is to have a full range of services in SACRO centres throughout the country, but that is not possible with current resources. It is a lottery that depends on where you live."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 417939,
      "EditedText": "A lottery?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mackay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 417944,
      "EditedText": "In theory, that model of reparation and mediation can be operated at different levels of the criminal justice system. Referrals could be made by the courts and certain types of restorative justice practice can be applied to prisons too. The model should not be seen simply as a diversion from prosecution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 417946,
      "EditedText": "It is a difficult issue, and SACRO believes in judicial discretion. In the press today, there are reports of two cases in which the public are up in arms about the sort of sentence that has been given, but we cannot know whether those reports are accurate or what information was before the court. We must leave that sort of decision to judges and sheriffs. Having said that, I think that some of them would welcome information that would make them fully aware of the alternatives that are available, the effectiveness of those alternatives and the types of case in which they are effective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 417949,
      "EditedText": "So it is a fine on people's leisure time, rather than a bed for the night and a payment when they get out of jail? That would be revolving-door justice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 417950,
      "EditedText": "It is more than that, because it will—we hope—help people to change rather than to continue their offending behaviour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 417954,
      "EditedText": "I speak on behalf of the turnaround project, which is part of the major drug agency, Turning Point, so I cannot give you a huge amount of detail about the arrest referral scheme. The scheme has workers in the sheriff court in Glasgow who can interview every woman who is accused, and assess whether her offending is related to drug misuse and whether it would be appropriate for her to see a drugs worker. The procurator fiscal can immediately liberate women for that assessment; if it is appropriate, they can start to attend the programme, and if not, they will be returned to court. Originally under the arrest referral scheme, workers were in police cells for a couple of hours a night, but women who saw the workers then could not remember ever having seen them when they met again. By moving the arrest referral scheme to the court on the next day, when the women are able to be assessed, the scheme has been able to pick up more women and more women are now on the programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ContributionID": 417970,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry Mr Cameron, but the sound system does not seem to be picking up your voice very well. Could you speak a little louder?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 417960,
      "EditedText": "I cannot give you a definitive answer on the youngest age of the young people who were referred to us by the police. That was a small pilot project. I know that some very young children come to the attention of the police, but I do not know how many such children were referred to us. In principle, we should be able to deal with fairly young children.The young offender mediation project that we run in Fife receives its referrals directly from the reporter to the children's hearing. That project was evaluated by Scottish Office research and was found to be very effective. The Fife reporter is very enthusiastic, and other reporters are envious of him because he has that project at his disposal. As I described for the adult victim/accused mediation, the project is based on the same principle of confronting the accused with the impact on the victim, of which the accused was often unaware. An example was a young boy who smashed a patio window—perhaps we would all find it exciting to break a huge pane of glass. However, when he discovered that there had been a baby in a pram behind that patio window, he was chastened. The reparation that the family wanted the boy to make was to paint their garden fence. Through doing that, he came to know the baby and the family, and was much more likely not to reoffend.The recently published research on children's hearings emphasises deficiencies in hearings' ability to respond to the needs of young offenders; it says that the range of options is restricted compared with that in other countries. We need more mediation and reparation for young people—again, it is available only in Fife. We should consider family group conferencing, from which other jurisdictions benefit, and more offender behaviour programmes. If we deal with young offenders quickly, they might not have criminal careers.It is important to remember that 40 per cent of recorded crime is committed by people who are under 20, and that it is estimated that each crime costs about £2,000. We should divert resources early; we would then save all along the chain, through to prisons.I emphasise to the committee that under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998, England and Wales is getting a number of benefits that we are not. Surely Scotland, too, needs youth justice services, inter-agency young offender teams, youth justice plans and reparative orders?Were there any other aspects to your question that I have not covered?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 417961,
      "EditedText": "No, that is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 417965,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 417966,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming in. I am sorry that the time was so restricted, although you managed to get half an hour. We will no doubt contact you again in future.I invite Mr Tony Cameron to come before the committee. Thank you for coming, Mr Cameron. Despite the lateness of the hour, we will not hold ourselves to a 12.30 deadline; we will let the meeting run on a little so that you have more time.As you are the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service, a great many issues will be raised about which the Scottish Prison Service probably needs to be asked.  However, I am also acutely aware that you have been in your job for only 12 days. In such circumstances, we should treat this meeting as more of an introduction than an attempt to put you on the spot. I suspect that of necessity some of our questions will be greeted by, \"I have not had time to familiarise myself with that.\" In that spirit, we can start. I know that you have been here all morning, and that some obvious issues will have been flagged up as ones that we are likely to raise with you. You may wish to make some initial remarks. I notice that you have circulated a brief outline of some of the main areas about which we might want to question you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tony Cameron (Chief Executive, Scottish Prison Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 417967,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful for the invitation to the meeting. I am accompanied by Ruth Sutherland, who is my private secretary and who understands a great deal more about the Prison Service than I do—as you say, this is my 12th working day as head of the Scottish Prison Service. I am proud to have been given the opportunity to lead the service; we have heard a good deal about some of the excellent work that it does—unfortunately, only bad news is usually news.Some members will know a lot about prisons and others—like me—will know less. I have brought with me a briefing paper, which looks like a list of tables, but is actually a printout of the overhead slides that were used for the induction presentation that was given to me and Jim Wallace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 417968,
      "EditedText": "How long was the induction process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 417975,
      "EditedText": "The total prison population in a year is roughly 36,000 and the total daily population is 6,000—that is one sixth. That suggests that the average stay is two months, which is not long. However, the dispersion between a one-day stay and life is huge and we must deal with all those groups of people, male and female, young offenders and older prisoners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 417978,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy with an assurance that you will look at the issue."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417984",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 417984,
      "EditedText": "When?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 417986,
      "EditedText": "When will the decisions be taken? Do you have a time scale?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 417989,
      "EditedText": "I think the answer to that is shortly, in the autumn."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 571.0,
      "ContributionID": 417995,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The report was for last year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417996",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 573.0,
      "ContributionID": 417996,
      "EditedText": "Can we talk briefly about Low Moss? The report identified the way in which uncertainty about the future affected morale. Has that changed since the report, or is that problem still hanging over Low Moss? If we are still uncertain about its future, is there any indication of when a decision will be taken?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 583.0,
      "ContributionID": 418001,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Current indications are that we continue to require Low Moss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 597.0,
      "ContributionID": 418008,
      "EditedText": "Low Moss stands out in the report as a particularly difficult institution. The report flags up a variety of problems: reported violence, levels of unreported violence and an area called \"the jungle\" or \"the dark side\". Peppered throughout the report are concerns about poor industrial relations. I do not know whether you are aware in detail of what is going on there, but perhaps you can comment on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 599.0,
      "ContributionID": 418009,
      "EditedText": "The answer is no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 603.0,
      "ContributionID": 418011,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 624.0,
      "ContributionID": 418021,
      "EditedText": "I have not seen it and I cannot comment on something that I have not seen. I agree with you on the general issue of the importance of human resources. The Scottish Prison Service has about 5,000 staff, which is about 40 per cent of the total number of staff in the Scottish Executive. That is a huge component of the total number of civil servants. It is self-evident that human resources are hugely important for that number of staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 626.0,
      "ContributionID": 418022,
      "EditedText": "I know that you have not read the report, but I would like to point out one figure: 84 per cent of staff say that they do not feel that they have been listened to. That must be a matter of priority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 628.0,
      "ContributionID": 418023,
      "EditedText": "If true, it would be. You are quite right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 630.0,
      "ContributionID": 418024,
      "EditedText": "What will you do to establish whether the figure is true?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 632.0,
      "ContributionID": 418025,
      "EditedText": "We have, I understand, undertaken two independent staff surveys."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 648.0,
      "ContributionID": 418033,
      "EditedText": "Finally, can you shed any light on why officers are not getting time off in lieu?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418052",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 686.0,
      "ContributionID": 418052,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer the detail of your question, but the point is well taken. If the closure is delayed considerably, we cannot continue to allow the prison to fall apart, as that would not enable us to meet other targets as an agency. I cannot give the committee a precise timetable for the closure, as I do not have one. A team of my senior staff and governors are working on the question of arranging the rest of the estate to facilitate the closure of Longriggend. We would be criticised if we closed it quickly, before proper forethought—prisoners must be kept in custody and we must continue to try to improve their lot. There are also staffing issues. As I think the inspectorate said, we cannot simply pluck someone from Inverness and put them into Dumfries or wherever overnight, except in a dire emergency. One has to plan staffing as well as prisoner movement to facilitate something as complicated as emptying a prison while making proper provision for the people who are there. I believe that the careful planning that is required—and which this issue is getting—is more important than closing the prison by a certain date. Tricia Marwick's point about not allowing the prison to dilapidate is a fair one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 692.0,
      "ContributionID": 418055,
      "EditedText": "We look forward to seeing you again. I wish to say to those committee members who have not had to leave for other engagements that we will meet again at 9.30 on Wednesday morning next week—we start alternating mornings. The agenda will be sent out, but we will return to the consideration of domestic violence and Maureen's proposed committee-initiated bill. We have confirmed that representatives from a number of organisations will attend next week's meeting, including the Law Society and the Association of Police Superintendents. We still await confirmation from one or two individuals, but we think that the Law Commission will also attend. Two petitions that have been referred to us by the Public Petitions Committee will be on the agenda, and we will have to decide what we are to do about them. A statutory instrument on criminal legal aid has been referred to us, which will also be on next week's agenda. I think that, as well as a discussion on domestic violence, a discussion on the issues that have arisen in this morning's evidence should be on the agenda. We should decide how the committee intends to take those issues further.I advise the committee that there may have been some slippage in the timetable for the introduction of the feudal tenure bill, and that both that bill and the adults with incapacity bill are not likely to appear before the beginning of October. Therefore, we have another three weeks—possibly even four weeks—to move some of these other issues along before we meet the tidal wave of the legislation. I believe that, next Wednesday, we will meet in the chamber, which should be fun."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 699.0,
      "ContributionID": 418058,
      "EditedText": "However, we have got other business."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417754",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 417754,
      "EditedText": "Are you talking about a completely different way of handling young offenders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417756",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 417756,
      "EditedText": "Do you want that to be applied nationally? That is what I am getting at."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417811",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 417811,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise three points about Cornton Vale, where—to paraphrase what you said—the people are, in general, sad, not bad. First, the issue of training for officers, particularly in dealing with young offenders, has been raised. Do you have any views on the specific training required for prison officers in an institution for women? It has been mentioned that officers need to be counsellors and must deal with a host of complex problems. I note that the ratio of female staff has increased, which I would like you to comment on, as the governor has referred to the therapeutic needs of people in that institution. Secondly, you stressed the importance of the induction process and complimented Inverness prison. What are the induction procedures at Cornton Vale, given that there are so many difficult individuals with backgrounds like those to which the convener referred?Thirdly, you mentioned your concern about the high numbers of prisoners. It seems from the report that the increase is because of the number of women being sent to prison on remand. You obviously do not approve of it, so what do you think sheriffs ought to be doing, instead of sending such women to prison on remand?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 417957,
      "EditedText": "I had thought that you were speaking from your own experience."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3233078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 417990,
      "EditedText": "That makes it even harder for the staff and for the prisoners, knowing that they are in limbo."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 585.0,
      "ContributionID": 418002,
      "EditedText": "That is one of the first prisons that I would want to visit, considering the report. The situation is extraordinary. Unless you are going to have an immediate programme of building and moving wooden huts, it seems disgraceful that the prison should stay open."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C418004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 589.0,
      "ContributionID": 418004,
      "EditedText": "Those are your priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 417879,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the low morale that there seems to be in the Prison Service. The points that were made about the assessment that is now made before prison officers can get a pay increase and about the shrinking promotional chances seem to relate to schoolteachers also.I am looking at the document \"Work and Health in the Scottish Prison Service\". Some of the percentages it gives for staff are dramatic. On page 12, it says that\"68 per cent reported sometimes or often being expected to do work not appropriate to their role.\"Among residential staff, 72 per cent reported that their training was inadequate. On page 13, under the heading \"Not being listened to\", it says that 84 per cent of respondents reported that senior people did not take on board their views; and under the heading \"Uninformed\", it says that 78 per cent felt that they were not kept informed about important changes. Those are extraordinary figures.We know about the cost of training, but a prison service depends on the quality of the prison staff—that speaks for itself. There should be a happy and trained prison staff that knows what it is doing. It seems that what was said about people being asked to do work that was not appropriate to their role is true—because the role has changed a great deal and there been no training to match the changes. I think that Mr Turner and Mr Melrose would agree with that.What changes would you like in the consultative process? Earlier, I touched on induction programmes, and you said that you had been asked your views at the beginning, but those views had then been somehow lost before you were presented with a completed package."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2249415+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 417883,
      "EditedText": "How important is it that a training programme goes ahead for people working with—to narrow our focus as we did earlier—young offenders and female offenders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2249415+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 4.0,
      "ContributionID": 417719,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, Mr Fairweather—and the officials who have come with you. Thank you for agreeing at relatively short notice to speak to this committee. This morning, we want principally to examine some of the issues raised in the recently published \"Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons for Scotland Report 1998-1999.\" I want to give you the opportunity to introduce the people who are here with you and to outline, for the record, what you do and how you go about your work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 417722,
      "EditedText": "As at 31 March, there was spare capacity in the system for the first time in a long while. It amounted to approximately 200 places and came about because of the construction of the new prison at Kilmarnock and a number of new house blocks, such as at HMP Edinburgh. At the same time, the prison population steadied at approximately 6,000; it has not edged up much more since. In theory, at 31 March there was spare capacity. Indeed, that has continued to be the case; at times, spare capacity has been as much as 300 or 400 places.That is in theory; the practice is slightly different. Prisons are not like hotels. Because of the problems of categorisation and so on, x number of places cannot automatically be filled by prisoners, and so the figures never fully match up. A large refurbishment programme is going on in the background, and the Prison Service has always been dogged by the fact that there is never enough spare capacity. Prisoners cannot be moved on to the streets. Everyone must be moved around carefully. The spare capacity allows the refurbishment programme to continue, so some halls will be closed sequentially.I suspect that that means that pockets of overcrowding will continue for the next couple of years at least, although, in theory—provided that the prison population steadies at 6,000—there will be spare capacity to allow the refurbishment to take place. However, if numbers begin to edge up again, that will affect the refurbishment programme and reduce the Prison Service's options. Of course, if we have overcrowding again, it will reduce the ability of the staff to continue various programmes; they will be forced back into dealing only with what is in front of them.To summarise that complicated matter, I should say that, at the moment, the situation looks optimistic. There is a window of opportunity ahead, but an awful lot will depend on the climate and on crime as to whether the prison population edges up. However, I must be the only chief inspector in recent history to be looking at a prison service that is not, in theory, overcrowded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Clive Fairweather (Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons for Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 417720,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure when the chief inspector of prisons last addressed this Parliament, but I am certain that he or she could not have been as privileged as I am to have such a large and independent team to assist me with inspections.My team, which is here to help answer questions, includes: the deputy chief inspector, Eric Fairbairn; Dr Nancy Loucks, who is an independent researcher and criminologist; Brian Henaghen, who is our staff officer; and Mike Crossan, who is one of the inspectors. In addition, I have a much larger team to call on, including independent medical, nursing, education and addictions advisers. We also second team members from as far afield as Northern Ireland, the English inspectorate, the English Prison Service and even from north America, to help with inspections. I always try to include an independent observer, to whom I give the task of monitoring how we conduct the inspection process—\"Who guards the guards?\" I am always looking for new ideas on how observers monitor the way in which we operate.  Members have our remit in their advance briefing notes. Our operation costs around £190,000 a year, which includes pay, travel, telephone, postage and printing costs as well as the costs of placing our reports on the internet and sending them out to whoever requests them.It would be impossible to cover my annual report in the next five minutes, but I will attempt briefly to outline how we set about our inspections and the main themes, as I see them, emerging from our prisons.  I would issue the reminder that the inspectorate is not an auditor. Instead, I am a layman, and—as the chief layman—I have directed the team to judge prisons along the following lines. Are they safe? Are they decent? Most important, what are they doing to reduce the number of victims of crime in future? Why be so concerned about safety? It is the public will and the courts that send individuals to prison. However, offenders are sent into custody as punishment, not for punishment. In the case of remand, they are sent to await determination of innocence or guilt, or of their sentence. On behalf of the public, I take the issue of prisoners' safety as a very high priority, especially in relation to the suicide risk. When I first step into a prison on an inspection, I remind myself to ask the question, \"What are the risks of dying in this place?\" Even before that, I ask whether Scottish prisons are safe for staff. In the past year, there were two suicides among staff and 17 serious assaults on prison officers. I suggest that the job of prison officer carries a great deal more risk than many other occupations do.As for prisoner violence, we have, I hope, moved away from the era of serious rooftop sieges and the like. Nevertheless, there were 129 serious prisoner-on-prisoner assaults last year, many of which were, I believe, related to drug debt. Although there were 20 deaths in custody last year, I wish to praise the work of medical services in prisons, which, in the past few years, have improved almost out of all recognition. The treatment that most prisoners receive is comparable with what they could expect in the community. That is exactly how it should be—no more and no less.There is, of course, the terrible problem of suicide: there were 14 suicides last year, nine of whom were remand prisoners. That figure comes out of the total of 20 deaths. The suicides happened despite the recent introduction of a revised anti-suicide strategy, and we think that almost everything that can be done is being done. In particular, I want to underline the quite excellent induction arrangements at HMP Inverness.We could be here a long time discussing everyone's opinion of what is decent. I base my standards on those of other public institutions, such as hospitals or state schools, and I believe that there should be very little difference between those and the places to which offenders or alleged offenders are sent compulsorily. Were it not for the problems of slopping out, which will not be eradicated until the year 2004, I would now be reasonably satisfied with conditions in Scottish prisons. However, there are exceptions: HM remand institution Longriggend is a pretty isolated and run-down place. On balance, I think that it could probably be closed, now that prisoner numbers are steadying across the whole of the Scottish Prison Service. I do not think that the wooden huts—or what goes on in them—at HMP Low Moss are decent. We should not overlook conditions at Barlinnie. It is Scotland's largest prison, with up to 20,000 receptions a year. Although I am pleased to note that conditions there are improving, they are still pretty basic.On the prevention of future victims of crime, I have to say that the SPS record on containment is excellent. There have been very few escapes in recent years and that aspect of public protection compares extremely well with the record of prison services elsewhere. There is, of course, a second part to the equation—rehabilitation and the tackling of offending behaviour while criminals are locked up to stop or reduce the possibility of their committing further crime on release. Until now, my perception is that the SPS has rightly tended to concentrate on serious or persistent long-term offenders. I believe that the system for them is now relatively effective, but the SPS still has some way to go in other areas, especially in relation to young offenders. However, now that overcrowding could be coming to an end—thanks mainly to the construction of a new prison and several new builds within existing perimeters—a window of opportunity has been created for staff to concentrate far more on dealing with rehabilitation at all locations.Drug misuse is probably the biggest problem for the SPS. Many individuals who are in prison are there because of crime connected to feeding a drug habit. We can still do more to try to reduce their habits so that, when they come out of prison, they are less likely to return to drug-related crime. There are, of course, serious health implications, which need to be considered.In conclusion, I believe that, here in Scotland, we are now moving out of 19th century conditions. This committee is examining a system which has been steadily improving for some time, and which soon might be described as being fit for the 21st century—provided that further sustained progress is not dissipated by a return to serious overcrowding.I would summarise short-term future requirements as the need for more decisive action over Longriggend and Low Moss. In the medium term, the Scottish Prison Service should publish a more coherent policy for young offenders, especially on the selection and training of prison officers. We have assurances that publication of that policy is not too far away.We should continue to try to reduce the female prison population. Doing that would not compromise public safety and, more important, it could save young lives. In due course, perhaps some of the principles involved ought to be extended to males.Finally, the SPS could be more consistent in its treatment of remand prisoners. There are indications that treatment is improving, but it could be more consistent. Early next spring, we will publish a thematic report on our findings on the treatment of remand prisoners."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C417725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 417725,
      "EditedText": "The answer to your first question—my team may want to comment on this—is that places must always be kept free for policy reasons. Spare capacity is needed because, if there is trouble in a prison, there must always be somewhere to decant inmates to. The number is kept to the absolute minimum, but it will always be required.When I first inspected Barlinnie, it was hugely overcrowded. The figure has come down considerably to 32 per cent. The difficulty at Barlinnie is that various halls are being refurbished, with WCs being put in the cells. D hall has been refurbished, but other halls have to be refurbished in due course. That will take the next four to five years. During that time, halls will be closed, because refurbishment cannot be done around the inmates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 417727,
      "EditedText": "Although work is taking place in Barlinnie, it must be phased in in all the other establishments. Overcrowding goes round in a big circle, so to speak. Just now, Barlinnie is 32 per cent overcrowded. That figure may be down slightly this week; I have not looked. Mr Crossan can comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C417733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 417733,
      "EditedText": "In your introductory remarks, you said that the biggest problem facing the Prison Service was probably drugs misuse. You said that more had to be done to help people to give up their habit when they were in prison. Could you give us examples of good practice in any of the institutions that you inspected during the past couple of years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C417735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 417735,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 417738,
      "EditedText": "Scott, did you want to come back in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C417739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 417739,
      "EditedText": "At the end of his speech, Mr Fairweather started to address the fact that the issue was not just about preventing drugs from entering prisons—although that is important—but about the rehabilitative process in prisons. It is one thing to stop drugs entering prisons but, if people are leaving prison with some form of habit, we are not going to stop the whole process. If we cannot stop that process in a closed establishment such as a prison, we have precious little chance of stopping it in communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 417741,
      "EditedText": "It is not so much a question of more resources as one of a gradual switching of some of them. It is not a question of commitment either. When I have visited places such as Polmont, my feeling is that we do not have too much of a problem there. The reason for that is that a lot of young offenders are not organised. They come from all over Scotland and have not organised the routes in—they tend to take whatever they can get hold of—whereas long-termers are much more organised. I get the impression that, because staff and management there do not have to deal with major addiction problems, they feel the way in which that prison is being managed is fine. My feeling is that we should take a hammer to crack a nut. Even though the random mandatory drug testing figures are relatively low, we should do everything that we can to get them even lower. In the past, the Prison Service has rightly focused on the long-termers and on the control of drugs. Perhaps there is more space in the system now, and we should shift our focus to consider young offenders as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 417745,
      "EditedText": "I accept what you are saying, Mr Fairbairn, but the fact that there is a problem in society does not mean that people should not be helped to deal with their drug addiction in prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 417747,
      "EditedText": "In an ideal world—I do not think that we will ever be in this position—the most important thing that the Prison Service could do in addressing drugs problems would be to hold an induction at the start of a sentence, to measure the size of the problem and how it could be managed. Thereafter, as that sentence went by, a number of options would exist. The next most important thing, if it could be done—I have tried to implement this idea before, but there are all sorts of problems, including finance—would be somehow to run the last two months of an individual's sentence from the community, with the funding coming from there. Then we would really have a hold, as the people who were most interested would take the situation on. No matter how much the Prison Service manages things—and it is interested in passing individuals on when they leave—its interest is much less when individuals come to the end of their sentence. If that last bit was run from the community, we might begin to be more effective. However, I am not sure how that could be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 417748,
      "EditedText": "You are suggesting that we might want to consider whether the SPS should be financially responsible right at the end of the sentences, or whether the funding burden should be shifted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 417750,
      "EditedText": "That is an interesting comment, which people may want to follow up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 417752,
      "EditedText": "We have inspected all the young offenders locations during the past 18 months. At the start, we were aware that individual establishments were doing their bit and doing it very well where they could. However, as we went along, we sensed that the Prison Service had sorted out long-termers and the like, and that it needed to switch its attention to young offenders. We have seen the odd draft copy of this policy and I am assured that it will appear later this year. Dr Loucks is doing a study on the subject at the moment, but I do not know how much is available for publication. The key, however, is not in the written policy; it is in the selection and training of officers. Up to now, prison officers have tended to go to particular establishments because gaps needed to be filled. That situation cannot be changed overnight but, bit by bit, we need to select by saying, \"You are better with adolescents than he or she is.\" That would make the change. That has already happened at Polmont, which is one of the main young offenders institutions—the staff have been selected and trained to deal with first offenders, and the change is palpable. That policy could form the bones of the strategy. Eric, do you want to add something before Nancy answers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairbairn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 417753,
      "EditedText": "One of the things that must be recognised is that young offenders are not small adult prisoners; they have their own specific needs. As Mr Fairweather pointed out, the priority in the past has been to deal with adult long-termers, who have proved to be more dangerous to society. It could be risky, as the SPS has recognised, to say that what we have developed for long-term adult prisoners could be adjusted to fit every other type of prisoner in Scottish prisons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 417765,
      "EditedText": "With regard to my team, I take an addictions adviser with me on inspections. A variety of people have been in that role, one of whom was an addictions worker from Cambridge. More recently, I employed someone who has much work experience in prisons in Scotland. I use him to assess independently the programme and overall strategy that the prison is running, and that assessment is part of my report. He looks not only at misuse of drugs, but at alcohol misuse. To elaborate, we talk about drugs and think immediately of cannabis and heroin, but although alcohol is not a problem while people are in prison, it is a big problem for many of them when they arrive. We examine not only what the prison is doing about drug misuse but what it is doing about alcohol misuse. For example, about 50 per cent of prisoners admitted to Barlinnie have an alcohol problem, and Barlinnie has an alcohol programme to deal with individuals while they are there. A few years ago, I said that we needed more addictions workers in prisons. At that stage, the problem was one of funding: who would pay for addictions workers? Should the Prison Service or the community pay for them? Bit by bit, most of the prisons have acquired either full-time addictions workers—who might be trained prison officers, civilians, or a mixture of the two—or workers who are partly funded by the community. For example, we have just finished inspecting Dumfries, where there is a fairly big drug problem in the community as it sits on the main drug route. We have suggested that one of the ways in which to deal with the problem of addictions is to establish a jointly funded post of addictions worker—someone from, perhaps, Dumfries and Galloway Health Board, who would work part time in the prison and see the process through. The same process occurs in Cornton Vale, where individuals arrive from and return to Glasgow; most of the drug problem comes from the greater Glasgow area. Funding—and how much joint funding we want—is at the root of the problem. Joint funding is beginning to take place, but when I started, there were fewer addictions workers. I remember suggesting that there should be at least 10 across the Prison Service. I have not looked at the figures recently, but I imagine that if we added all the workers together, including trained officers, the total would be double that, if not more."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 417775,
      "EditedText": "I cannot provide the information now, as I would give the committee an inaccurate answer. We can look it up and provide an answer later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Loucks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 417776,
      "EditedText": "The most recent published statistics from prisons show that, of 23,000 receptions into custody in 1997, almost 11,000 were fine defaulters—although fine defaulters can be imprisoned for other reasons—whereas just over 12,000 were as a result of direct sentences. Therefore, fine defaulters represent quite a high proportion of receptions into custody, which has implications for staff time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 417778,
      "EditedText": "The drug problem in Inverness is not as bad as it is elsewhere, and that combines with other factors to explain why there has not been a suicide in Inverness—to say that makes me a hostage to fortune. One factor is the difference in drug misuse; undoubtedly another is staff effort and close working arrangements; another is the induction procedure, which is the best that we have seen. The procedure involves the assessment of individuals' needs, of their drug problems and so on and of their circumstances. They are then given an idea of what lies ahead for them while they are in prison. The procedure lasts considerably longer than induction procedures at other locations, and I will ask the deputy chief inspector to describe some of the details of the procedure. On the other hand, we have just spoken about Barlinnie, where up to 200 individuals might arrive on a Monday night. Whether it would be possible to transfer a week-long induction programme to Barlinnie, bearing it in mind that many of those prisoners are liberated on the Friday, with another 200 arriving, is a more difficult question. I keep reverting to induction, whether in relation to drugs or whatever. Once one can measure and focus on an individual better, one has a better idea of how to deal with that individual in future. Perhaps the most important point is that it should not be just a happening—a process needs to be created. In the past, induction has tended to be, \"Look, you're in here: have a quick briefing and on you get with your sentence.\" We need to consider it much more as a process that could last for not just a few days, but a longer period, until such time as the prisoner—whether on remand or convicted—is able to get on with their sentence on their own with a personal officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairbairn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 417779,
      "EditedText": "As Mr Fairweather said, the number of prisoners is an issue. Barlinnie has 200 admissions on a Monday or a Tuesday, a situation that is certainly not replicated in Inverness, which deals with smaller numbers. In Inverness, the approach is one of helping the prisoner to understand what will happen in the first 24 hours. For remand prisoners in particular, the transition from being on the street to being in prison can be swift, disorienting and often bewildering, especially if it is overlaid with drug or alcohol abuse. During the first 24 hours, things are explained to the individual and staff check that he understands what will happen. Often the prisoner's location is a big question; one of the first questions prisoners ask is, \"Where am I and what happened?\" Another element is assessment of risk. Is the individual likely to cause self-harm? Is the individual at risk? Does he understand what is going on? What are the mental health and drug addiction issues? Once that is done, we need dedicated staff—by that I mean staff who are dedicated to that task, not that they are any more committed to that task than to any other—to assess the needs. That links with being able to do something helpful.Information on statistics is collected at Inverness prison. It was found that a high percentage—over 65 per cent—of prisoners entering the prison claimed or admitted to having an alcohol problem. In contrast, about 15 or 20 per cent said that they had a drugs problem. The focus for Inverness prison was to develop programmes or links with the community to address the alcohol issue and to give support on impulsiveness—when people are unable to cope with rejection and unable to understand what to do when someone says no, other than reacting violently. After every prisoner is inducted to Inverness, the staff check how they are doing. The input covers chaplaincy, education and social work, so that several issues can be addressed. Before the individual is released, the staff go back again, look at the questionnaire that was filled out and ask, \"What have we done? What have you done? What remains to be done? What links into the community could we help to re-establish?\" Those are the reasons why we were particularly impressed by Inverness prison. However, Inverness is a small, Highland, local prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 417785,
      "EditedText": "This morning you stressed that we should continue to try to reduce the female prisoner population. On average, at any one time, of over 6,000 prisoners, 199 are female. Three per cent of the prison population is female. Does that relate to evidence that females participate in only 3 per cent of crime in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 417786,
      "EditedText": "Not quite. In general, what strikes me most as a layman when I go to a prison such as Cornton Vale is that the women have a totally different nature from that of male prisoners. Their crimes are shoplifting or prostitution rather than doing in cars and so on.When I am in female prisons, I do not sense threatening behaviour as I do in the male prisons. I have a strong sense that the prisoners are poor, deranged individuals who are confused by drugs and by their whole background. Nothing has struck me more than the difference between women in prison and their male counterparts. Even when women take drugs, they do so for a totally different reason. It appears to me that they do so not for macho reasons but to get away from themselves. They are very different. In the past, I have described them as bedraggled. I have not seen men in such a condition. Some of those in Cornton Vale need to be there for a long time, but they are a tiny proportion at one end of the prison. There is probably a middle group that needs to be there. Each time I go, I see another group and I wonder why they are there. Obviously these women have committed a range of minor offences—they are nuisances—but I do not think that they are a threat to public safety. In many cases, they are a bigger threat to themselves while they are in prison."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Loucks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 417788,
      "EditedText": "I emphasise what Mr Fairweather has already said about the group being very different from the male prisoner population. Physical, sexual and emotional abuse is just part of their vulnerability. The high proportion of drug use compared to that of the male population is prominent. Eighty-seven per cent of female prisoners had used drugs in the past and about half the population considered themselves to be addicted to drugs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Loucks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 417790,
      "EditedText": "No. Women tend to be involved in multiple types of drug use—they use more than one type of drug. They are more involved in using opiates such as heroin. They are more likely to be addicted to drugs and to develop addictions much more quickly than men—that is on the outside as well as inside prison. They are less likely to inject while they are in custody, but they continue the problems of addiction while they are there. The distress of withdrawing from those drugs when they arrive in prison is a much bigger problem in Cornton Vale than it would be in men's prisons. Drugs are a small part of the picture. The problem of suicide and self-injury is generally much more prominent among the female population. About one third had attempted suicide before ever reaching Cornton Vale. That does not begin once the women enter custody; they are vulnerable before they even arrive. Only 1 per cent of women convicted of a crime in Scotland are convicted of a violent offence. There is not the same proportion of dangerous offences. It is much more those who commit the petty repeat offences who are ending up in custody. The implications for staff are extreme because they have to deal with a very vulnerable group. If staff are accustomed to working with prisoners in other SPS establishments, it is a completely different experience. Staff are asked to be not only prison officers but doctors and counsellors and to deal with all sorts of other things in which they are not necessarily trained and which they should not be expected to deal with. That is a vague sketch of the problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 417793,
      "EditedText": "The report refers to ministerial support for halving the daily female prisoner population by the end of 2000. How realistic is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 417796,
      "EditedText": "Undoubtedly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 417797,
      "EditedText": "Will you indicate how many young women between 16 and 18 are in prison?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 417798,
      "EditedText": "I can give the committee a snapshot. This is from part of a study carried out by the social work services group, which has not been published yet. Between February and May—just under four months—about 28 women under 18 were in prison. I checked last week: three women under 18 were on remand. It comes and goes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 417812,
      "EditedText": "It is magistrates, not sheriffs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 417813,
      "EditedText": "The criteria for the selection and training of prison officers at Cornton Vale are gradually shifting towards the sex of the individual and their suitability. However, the situation cannot be changed overnight. When we first got to Cornton Vale, we felt that the proportion of male and female officers was not right. It is now much nearer to what it should be, but that has taken three years. The reason for that is that we cannot simply pluck someone from their home in Stirling, shift them down to Dumfries and bring someone from there up here. It is much more complicated than that. The individual must want to work with women. We cut our teeth on that. What we—or I—have learned about dealing with young offenders is based on what we learned from working with women. The approach to selection and training has changed, but there is still some way to go and I am sure that the governor would say that, too. It was the governor at Cornton Vale—who was my deputy before she went there—who recognised the importance of induction, particularly for remand prisoners. When we did the inspection, she came up with the one-liner that did it for me—that induction was a \"process, not an event\". Having said that, I believe that induction is still an area that could be improved at Cornton Vale, like everywhere else. The system there is sound, but that does not mean that it could not be moved on a notch or two more. On the number of remand prisoners, when I first inspected Cornton Vale in 1996, at the time of the first suicides, an average of 50 to 55 people were on remand—which was quite a high number—the majority of whom were under some form of suicide or medical observation. When the further suicides took place, we were carrying out our intermediate inspections. We noted that, at one point, the average number came down to about 30 to 35, which was much more manageable for the staff. However, in the past year or so, when we have been back to Cornton Vale, the number of remand prisoners has edged back up, on occasion to as high as 70 or 71, which was the top figure. Last week, the number was 61. That may not sound like many, but when prison staff have to deal with double the number of damaged women, it is a problem. When I was talking to staff, I was aware that I was interrupting them. They had to look beyond me to see what \"wee so-and-so\" was doing, and what \"Avril over there\" was up to. They had to watch permanently. There is only so much that can be done with the women's physical surroundings and the number of staff. The number of staff on the remand block has been increased. The problem is that there is no change in the condition of the women who are coming in—who are pretty damaged goods—and staff are always having to look over their shoulder to see what is happening round the corner. I was at Cornton Vale last week to see what is being done to the remand block, which should assist with the numbers quite considerably. The block is being gutted, as we recommended, and prisoners will now be two to a cell, in cells designed to take two women, rather than prisoners being banged in together and cells being overcrowded. That is for mutual support. Nevertheless, it is clear that staff will remain under enormous pressure as long as remand numbers are high."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 417823,
      "EditedText": "I do not have exact figures, but every officer in each establishment must, for example, spend three days on SDBA training. There is only a five-day training variable built in for each staff member in each establishment. The total required for mandatory training is much more than five days. Additional training for staff causes complications relating to freeing them to take part in the training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Melrose (Chair, Scottish Prison Officers Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 417829,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add that the service is becoming a much younger service and the promoted posts that are available will stagnate for a considerable time. They will therefore afford very little opportunity to those who join the service today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 417831,
      "EditedText": "Those who have invested much time in the service, who started prior to the fresh start in 1987, when prison officers had the right to work until they were 55 and could—after 20 years' service—get the maximum pension, will probably be locked into the service because of their commitment to the service and because of the benefits that they have accrued over the years. It is less attractive for those officers to leave, although some have recently done so to join the police."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 417836,
      "EditedText": "Could you explain what you mean by D-banded and C-banded?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 417841,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I do not want to decry our operations staff, or the qualities and value that they bring to the service, but you are quite right to say that they are less experienced. The nature of their job—perhaps working in the gate area, in the visitor area, or escorting prisoners to court—may give them some contact with prisoners. However, the officers who know the prisoners—perhaps better than they know some of their own relatives because they work with them eight hours a day, seven days a week—should be carrying out the testing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 417842,
      "EditedText": "Where is that beginning to happen? Is it happening at particular institutions or are there signs of that right across the service?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 417845,
      "EditedText": "That is in the process of happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 417846,
      "EditedText": "Is mandatory drug testing being carried out by less experienced officers than when it was first phased in?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 417849,
      "EditedText": "That has not been rolled out to the whole service yet. Some establishments have had residential officers doing dual duties—they have been doing drug testing and residential duties. The stand-alone facilities for mandatory drug testing have been given over to C-banded officers. It is quite complicated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4893158+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 417850,
      "EditedText": "You will have heard this morning that we are concerned about what seem to be wide disparities in drug use from prison to prison. Can you say anything that will help us understand why those disparities occur?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 417851,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult, but I subscribe to what Mr Fairweather said about locations, communities and the geography of prison bases. All those have impacts. There are priorities within prisons for the delivery of various initiatives. If mandatory drug testing is not seen as a high priority, the resources will, perhaps, be channelled into other areas and other rehabilitation programmes, such as anger management and cognitive skills training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 417852,
      "EditedText": "The impression I get from Mr Fairweather and you is that much of this is outwith your control. Is that your view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 417853,
      "EditedText": "We in the Prison Service are not the masters of our own destinies. Yesterday I had a telephone call from a reporter in the Inverness area who said that the local authority had a shortfall of £109,000 in its budget, and was looking for an opportunity to cut back on social services work in evenings and at weekends. That would result in an increase in custodial sentences. The reporter wanted to know how that would impact on the prison in Inverness.I explained that that prison now has an opportunity to start to develop because the number of inmates has fallen and there is no longer the same problem with overcrowding, but that the staff would have to deal with any impacts that result from outside circumstances. That will detract from the programmes that they are trying to deliver.That illustrates that we are not the masters of our destinies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 417864,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not think that the service is undermining the problem of drugs within the service. The drug initiative was given a very high profile at the outset, and residential officers had to implement it. Management has now decided to reduce the level of officer that is involved. We now have a—shall we say—more cost-effective way of doing things, but, as a union official, I—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 417872,
      "EditedText": "It goes back to 1987, when the Prison Service throughout the United Kingdom was restructured. Before that, prison officers were allowed to retire at 55 because of the nature of their job, and the years between an officer's having clocked up 20 years of service and his or her retirement age were counted as double for pension purposes, a scheme that was called two for one. That was all done away with: staff now have to work until they are aged 60, and a person who starts at age 20 and works until age 60 will have worked 40 years for a single-time pension."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 417873,
      "EditedText": "So the old scheme has come to an end?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 417875,
      "EditedText": "The logic behind the scheme was, I think, that officers should be able to clock up enough service to allow them to retire at 55, because the job was recognised as being such a high-pressure job. It is still a high-pressure job—arguably the pressure is even higher."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 417882,
      "EditedText": "We represent some 220 nurses at the state hospital at Carstairs. As part of a national health service initiative, they are going through partnership training and work. We sat down with the general manager and developed a partnership framework document that, with the agreement of the staff, is just about ready to be signed. The Prison Service should look at that model, follow that model and live the values of that model. There would be a terrible pressure on both union and management to live up to those values, but we still advocate such a partnership document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 417886,
      "EditedText": "It has been a long time since I worked in the field but I was a prison officer for 15 years at Barlinnie. If a need is identified, it must be progressed. That must be done properly, with proper support, proper resources and proper training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 417889,
      "EditedText": "In the service now, a high priority in training is self-development, which management is more and more inclined to encourage at all levels of staff.I am not against that at all, but initial recruits who are being posted to Cornton Vale to deal with female prisoners receive no specific training and staff who are being posted to young offenders institutions receive only standard prisoner officer training. To perform many of their tasks and duties and to gain the additional skills required, staff are expected to self develop or, in other words, to do the training in their own time.Self-development forms part of the service's performance procedures. We do not think that that is correct. If management wish staff to be highly skilled, qualified and professional, they should be responsible for supplying that professional training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 417892,
      "EditedText": "That is obviously quite a big issue. Phil Gallie wants to speak; as I understand it, he has some issues to address with our witnesses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 417896,
      "EditedText": "Prisoners are subjected to closed visits for a variety of reasons, mostly for transgressions such as attempted drug passing in visiting areas.I am impressed by the introduction, at Shotts prison, of drug-free work areas and enhanced wages for prisoners who remain in those areas. High levels of support and good programmes to assist the prisoner to stay off drugs are the key to solving the problem.Further to Mr Fairweather's point, we must do something about shorter sentences; we cannot continue to concentrate on the long-term prisoners only. Short-term prisoners also cause problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 417897,
      "EditedText": "The introduction of open visits some years ago was one of the reasons behind the escalation of the drugs problem in the prison system. I am not against those visits; in fact I believe that they form part of a helpful process for the prisoners, their families and the prison staff. However, when open visits were introduced, high technology detection equipment, such as X-ray machines, was not available to staff in the visiting areas. Now we have such equipment and procedures are in place to reduce the potential to introduce drugs during visits."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 417902,
      "EditedText": "Family contact and development officers are also mainstream prison officer staff. Are they given special training?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 417903,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 417904,
      "EditedText": "Do they exist in all prisons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 417905,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not think so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 417908,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much for coming along this morning. Many issues have been raised to which I suspect the committee will wish to return.I know that we have run quite late, but I propose that we have a quick break. We will then return for the remaining 45 minutes to talk to Safeguarding Communities Reducing Offending and Mr Cameron from the Scottish Prison Service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 417910,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 417917,
      "EditedText": "I know that you want us to talk about prisons, but that is difficult because it is not our role. We believe that there must be a redistribution of resources in the criminal justice system, from prisons to community-based alternatives. Prison closures, which the chief inspector suggested might be considered with Low Moss and Longriggend, would realise savings for redistribution. Prison closures will be possible if the prison population is reduced. I would like to talk about how we could do that, if that is appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 417922,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that although the bail supervision alternative is available in theory, in practice there is no way of putting that alternative into use from area to area?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 417923,
      "EditedText": "There is no bail supervision anywhere except Edinburgh and Glasgow, as far as I am aware."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 417924,
      "EditedText": "You referred to the patchy availability of alternatives to custody. Is it also the case that those alternatives are available in theory but not in practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 417925,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 417932,
      "EditedText": "Getting people back into employment is more the role of Apex Trust Scotland. SACRO does not focus on drug misuse, but there are specialist agencies that do. Many of the people we are working with misuse drugs, and we refer them to the appropriate agencies. If we have people in our supported accommodation who need help with employment, we work hand in hand with Apex. They may attend a drug programme and go to Apex for help in finding work. Earlier this year, SACRO held a conference on drugs and crime. We agreed that there needs to be an objective examination of drugs in society. The widespread use of drugs in prisons is only a reflection of what is happening in society at large. There can be no doubt that cannabis use is part of the culture of young people. The police seem to take a de facto approach to the matter and ignore cannabis users' offences. Perhaps we need—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 417940,
      "EditedText": "Basically, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 417947,
      "EditedText": "Is it SACRO's view that, perhaps because of a lack of knowledge or experience of the alternatives to custody, most people would prefer either a fine or a jail sentence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 417948,
      "EditedText": "That preference is probably due to lack of availability. However, even where alternatives are available, organisations such as SACRO need to do more to inform sheriffs and judges of what the alternatives really mean. Sheriffs must have confidence that alternative sentences are robust, challenging and difficult, and that they will work better than putting someone away for a few days or weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 417956,
      "EditedText": "I understand that it is, but I cannot give a definitive answer.On your second question, I was just picking up what the chief inspector said about remand in his report. He recommended that there should be consistency, and we would always welcome consistency. A thematic study is under way, so I do not have anything more to say on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 417958,
      "EditedText": "Not really. We will comment further after we have read his report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 417963,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to take a minute or two to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 417964,
      "EditedText": "I endorse what the chief inspector said. We were very encouraged by the report of the chief inspector of prisons, \"Women Offenders—A Safer Way\". As we have heard this morning, the population in Cornton Vale are more of a danger to themselves than to the public, and most of the women should not be there. We need to have more specially tailored alternatives in the community for women, who often do not get supervised attendance orders or community service orders because it is felt that the programmes that are available are not suitable for women. It also might not be appropriate to have a group with just one woman in it, especially if the woman is vulnerable or unassertive. Resources need to be diverted to special group work support for women. We need that for all potential or actual offenders, but in recognition of everything that we have heard this morning about the reasons for women's offending and reoffending, which lie more in their economic, social and personal circumstances than in anything else, we need specially tailored programmes for women.Does that answer your question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ContributionID": 417969,
      "EditedText": "The initial induction used the slides to convey the scope of the Scottish Prison Service. The first slide shows that there are 24 establishments—people tend to call them all prisons, but that is not the case—which is rather more than most people would guess. There are about 6,000 prisoners. A lot of people might know that, but what surprised me is that, each year, 30,000 to 40,000 people come through the doors. That is a large number of people to be processed and dealt with, and as we have heard, those people are often disturbed.The capacity of the system, a subject on which Clive Fairweather and his team spoke, is 6,650 prisoners. Overcrowding has been reduced, although the problem has not been solved completely. Overcrowding depends on prisoner numbers, which is not something that the service is able to anticipate. We have to receive all those who are referred to us. However, easing of overcrowding will enable the estate to be improved.One of the things that I was told on taking up my post is that our core business is to keep in custody those whom the courts deliver to us—that is the No 1 requirement. Our record on escapes has improved in recent years. Similarly, the abscond rates and rates of failures to return have improved. Abscond is the technical term used when a person on a work party, for example, runs off. A failure to return describes a person who does not come back after home leave, whereas an escape is defined as a person who escapes from custody.We tend to take good order for granted, but the older people among us will remember the riots in the 1980s. We have had some short hostage incidents in recent years. The frequency of assaults is still a big problem, which I will return to later. The figures for drug taking show the number of people who test positive following mandatory drug testing: the proportion of positive tests has come down from just over one third to one quarter. It is significant that, as my research director told me, this is during a period in which drug taking in society is thought to have increased threefold. Assaults still present a serious problem, to which Clive and his team referred. That is related to the drug problem—it is part of the same story.Suicide is a tragedy, but the number of such incidents has dropped, although in society in general, suicides among young men are on the increase. As someone said earlier, we are a microcosm of society and we cannot insulate ourselves.Slopping out was mentioned earlier and is described in the briefing as access to night sanitation. Slow and steady progress has been made towards ensuring that three quarters of the prison population has access to night sanitation. It is an expensive business, particularly in many of the Victorian establishments, which were not designed to house that facility.The list of targets in the briefing is the same as that in Clive Fairweather's report and is also included in the \"Scottish Prison Service Annual Report and Accounts 1998-99\" and the corporate plan, which has been approved by ministers—both of which have been laid before Parliament. The last two sections of the briefing paper relate to policy and management initiatives. The first lists some of the things that we are doing for prisoners in terms of custody and order, and accountability—including accountability to the Parliament. Organisation has shown a continuous improvement. Changing the management style is essential and is also the most difficult thing to do. As the Parliament has discovered, changing style is culturally difficult. However, we are attempting to move from a centralised, rigid, reactive, hierarchical approach to a more user-friendly, less threatening and more output-driven culture, similar to that which is fostered by many modern businesses. There are no quick fixes.My colleagues tell me that international comparisons show that we have a high population of prisoners, but that the problems of drug taking and suicide are experienced throughout western Europe and are not confined to Scotland. The Dutch, the Canadians and others regard Scotland as being in the forefront of humane treatment of prisoners. When I visited Perth prison, I was surprised to learn that 90 per cent of those entering the prison tested positive for drugs. After making inquires at the Prison Service headquarters, I discovered that eight or nine out of 10 of those entering custody—more than 30,000—test positive for drugs and that 80 per cent show one or more signs that identify them as predisposed to suicide. We are dealing with a subset of society that is already extremely disturbed and difficult on arrival. I aim to achieve the outputs that ministers have set me, within the resources that they make available, and to work for continuous improvement. In my previous life in the rural affairs department, the Rural Affairs Committee visited us at our headquarters in Pentland House, and spent an afternoon going over in more detail the matters that interested the committee members. If members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee—individually or in groups—would like to visit the SPS headquarters at the Gyle or HMP Edinburgh, which is not that far away, we would be delighted to arrange it. That would allow members to see at first hand some of the things that are happening in the Prison Service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 525.0,
      "ContributionID": 417972,
      "EditedText": "We will keep that in mind and put it on the agenda for a future date. It might be of particular interest to members who have not been inside a prison. Some of us have—for professional reasons, I hasten to add. Laughter.I was interested in what you said about international comparisons, Mr Cameron. Would a broad-brush description be that we jail more people, but treat them better once they are there?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 417976,
      "EditedText": "Given the short time that you have spent in the job, I will ask for your opinion on certain issues. First, we have heard about the difficulties surrounding the retention of prison officers; the representatives of prison officers suggested that there might be problems in the promotion chain. Practical experience can sometimes outweigh educational qualifications—what are your views on that with respect to promotion in the Prison Service?Secondly, will you examine the system of open visits to prisons? Do you think that open visits should be earned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 417979,
      "EditedText": "Certainly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 417983,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ContributionID": 417993,
      "EditedText": "I will look at it; I heard it for the first time today, as you no doubt did."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417994",
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ContributionID": 417994,
      "EditedText": "Have the problems of Longriggend moved on since the report?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C417999",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 579.0,
      "ContributionID": 417999,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, many of the prisoners at Low Moss have access to night sanitation. One of the reasons that less has been done there is that a ministerial decision was taken that the priority for the Prison Service was to end slopping out by 2004-05. Most of that work is taking place elsewhere, because the dormitory accommodation at Low Moss already has access to night sanitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 581.0,
      "ContributionID": 418000,
      "EditedText": "I remain concerned. The report is damning about Low Moss. Among other things, it is clear that when the report was written there was considerable uncertainty surrounding the prison's future and its role. Are you saying—if you can say—that that uncertainty should be over?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 587.0,
      "ContributionID": 418003,
      "EditedText": "What would you like to cut in order to do the work at Low Moss? The night sanitation programme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 591.0,
      "ContributionID": 418005,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we have decided that that is a priority. If someone wants to adjust it, to what do we give less priority within the sum available?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 593.0,
      "ContributionID": 418006,
      "EditedText": "Are you asking for more resources so that you can do both?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 595.0,
      "ContributionID": 418007,
      "EditedText": "Since the block is a zero-sum game, the question remains of where the cut is made to provide for the new initiative. I am talking about the Scottish block, within which the Prison Service operates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 601.0,
      "ContributionID": 418010,
      "EditedText": "You cannot. The report flags up problems across the board. The provision or otherwise of night sanitation does not affect every one of those issues; it must be only one part of a whole which, thus far, appears to be going badly wrong. On the basis of the report, would you agree?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 608.0,
      "ContributionID": 418013,
      "EditedText": "I did not say that. You said badly wrong. I do not think that anything is going badly wrong."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 614.0,
      "ContributionID": 418016,
      "EditedText": "We are looking particularly at the issues raised by the report on Low Moss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 618.0,
      "ContributionID": 418018,
      "EditedText": "I would like to develop the human resources theme that Christine Grahame put to you, because you did not really address it. You have said that you have not had a chance to look at the issue, but the committee is more than a little concerned about the report from the trade union side, which says that 61 per cent of staff report working extra, unpaid hours. Of that number, 49 per cent say that they are under undue pressure to do those hours. As a result, they are having difficulty getting their time off in lieu. That will contribute to the sickness record, and it must be contributing to the low morale of officers in the service. I do not know whether those figures are accurate, but I do not think that you can turn away from the large-scale human resource issues. Christine Grahame has already mentioned the plea by 58 per cent of TUS respondents for more training. An alarming figure of 84 per cent feel that they have not been listened to. We must get human resources right if we are to deliver on the front line some of the things that you mentioned. I am glad to see that you will be changing the style of management. I would like to hear that some priority will be given to addressing the concerns of the TUS, particularly with regard to time off and stress at work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 620.0,
      "ContributionID": 418019,
      "EditedText": "We did not hear from the TUS this morning, did we? We heard from one of the unions, but not the others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 634.0,
      "ContributionID": 418026,
      "EditedText": "Do they bear out what the TUS document says?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 636.0,
      "ContributionID": 418027,
      "EditedText": "No, I do not think that they do, but I do not have the details."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 638.0,
      "ContributionID": 418028,
      "EditedText": "Can those staff surveys be put into the public domain?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 640.0,
      "ContributionID": 418029,
      "EditedText": "I think that they would be; in fact, they may have been."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 644.0,
      "ContributionID": 418031,
      "EditedText": "We would like to get an accurate picture of this, if that is all right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 646.0,
      "ContributionID": 418032,
      "EditedText": "Certainly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 650.0,
      "ContributionID": 418034,
      "EditedText": "In fairness, Pauline, Mr Cameron has not seen the trade union report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 654.0,
      "ContributionID": 418036,
      "EditedText": "You can take a copy away with you today; perhaps you could write to us with an initial response to what you find there. That would start the ball rolling, at least on the issues that have been mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 656.0,
      "ContributionID": 418037,
      "EditedText": "The trade unions met me yesterday, at my request. Interestingly, they did not mention any of those issues when I invited them to tell me what their current concerns were."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418038",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 143
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 658.0,
      "ContributionID": 418038,
      "EditedText": "That makes it interesting that those are the issues that have been put before us today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418039",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 660.0,
      "ContributionID": 418039,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418043",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
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      "EditedText": "I heard that point."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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      "ID": 143
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 680.0,
      "ContributionID": 418049,
      "EditedText": "I want to return to your statement that you cannot provide a time scale for the closure of Longriggend. You seemed to accept that no money had been spent on the prison, and that that was why conditions were bad. You seemed also to suggest that, because Longriggend is closing, no money will be spent on it in the interim."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418050",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
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      "EditedText": "I did not say that."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418053",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 688.0,
      "ContributionID": 418053,
      "EditedText": "Mr Cameron, it looks as though you have got away with 35 or 40 minutes today; in future, it is unlikely that you will get away with either such a short time or the latitude allowed to someone who is only 12 days into the job. Nevertheless, I thank you for coming today. I hope that you will have found it a useful experience—as it was for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418059",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 701.0,
      "ContributionID": 418059,
      "EditedText": "It is a difficult judgment to make. The clerk will take that on board and will consider carefully the time that we need before final decisions are made about next Wednesday."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418060",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 703.0,
      "ContributionID": 418060,
      "EditedText": "On that point, perhaps the following meeting should be a taking-stock one, so that we can try to take some of this information in. It has been a good day, and I take Phil's point that the people who have come to the meeting to give evidence should be given the maximum amount of time—that is only fair. We should see how the meeting goes next week, but we could think about having perhaps an even more informal meeting when we could develop some of the themes and points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418062",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 13:01."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417723",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 417723,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, members will want to ask questions about specific establishments—as will I—but we will start the discussion by talking about some of the more general issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417721",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 417721,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I suppose that it is only fair to say that, in this kind of forum, you will be asked questions about some of the black spots and some of the problems. You said that you were satisfied that the issue of overcrowding appeared to have been addressed, but that it was still a problem in a number of prisons. Are you saying that your fair words are intended more for the future and are based on the assumption that present trends will continue, but that we could still end up throwing the situation into reverse gear, either because of changes in attitudes to custody or because of continued problems with the physical fabric of buildings, which, I notice throughout your report, is still an issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417730",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 417730,
      "EditedText": "The figures will have changed. I cannot update you on all of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417731",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 417731,
      "EditedText": "I understand that."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C417737",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 417737,
      "EditedText": "The first factor, as I said, is where the prison population comes from, as there are enormous disparities in drug use throughout the country. The next factor is the geography and history of the prison and the place that it occupies in the prison structure. There is a big difference between drug taking in an open prison and drug taking in a closed establishment of long-termers. This is a complicated subject. I would not want to feel that individual prisons that are not getting a hold are being criticised. There can always be more co-ordination, but the problem is much more complicated than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
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  {
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 417740,
      "EditedText": "Mr Fairweather identified young offenders—particularly those with short sentences—as the group that should be targeted. Is that a question of resources or of commitment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 417743,
      "EditedText": "I agree that this is an opportunity. I shall get my team to answer in a moment, otherwise I shall sound a bit single issue. When we were first considering prisons, five or six years ago, there was not the same mention of drugs. I do not think that the problem was as bad then, but it has been growing since. So, too, has the response, and it always takes time for the responses to catch up. Random mandatory drug testing was introduced in a hurry; a lot of resources were put in that direction and fewer resources were put into rehabilitation. The Prison Service has a limited budget. Prisoners are always saying, \"You have all this MDT but you are not doing enough for my problem.\" However, that help is now coming. There is much more of a co-ordinated approach. There is a central co-ordinator in Prison Service headquarters and we are coming across high-level drugs co-ordinators in prisons. Three years ago, I was saying that we needed addictions workers, but others were saying that we did not. The perception is changing, however, and the resources are moving in that direction. It would be wrong to send anyone to prison simply because it is a good place to treat them for a drug problem. However, while they are there, we might as well use that opportunity to do something about the problem. Eric, do you want to add anything?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Eric Fairbairn (Her Majesty’s Deputy Chief Inspector of Prisons for Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 417744,
      "EditedText": "One of the issues that Mr Fairweather raised concerned the adoption of a more co-ordinated approach. The drug problem in prisons reflects the drug problem in the wider society. Perhaps there is scope for better integration of the various agencies, so that they can work together. The Scottish Prison Service could perhaps become more involved in dealing with the whole issue of drug misuse. A prisoner may be offered the facilities and take the chance of rehabilitation to get off drugs, but if that prisoner returns to an environment or home in which drug misuse is an issue, the chances of his staying clean would be diminished. We cannot treat the problem in prisons in isolation, although things could be done, and are being done, to provide a more integrated and co-ordinated approach in the prison system. We cannot treat drug problems in prison on behalf of society; we must see the wider picture and adopt a more comprehensive approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 417749,
      "EditedText": "I wonder. The SPS has an enormous financial burden, and is juggling its finances all the time. The rest of the community is doing that, too, but I sometimes wonder about the idea of a drug action team."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairbairn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 417757,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C417760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Nancy Loucks (Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons for Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 417760,
      "EditedText": "The Prison Service is beginning to pilot projects on working specifically with young people. At Polmont, a staff training programme on working with adolescents is beginning to identify them as a distinct group with distinct needs. As far as I know, Polmont is the only place that has tried that approach so far. If the approach is successful, I hope that it will spread to the other young offenders institutions.As Mr Fairweather suggested, more information about the young offenders institutions will appear soon. A long-term project on young offenders was completed at the end of December; the report should be released by the end of the year. Research on under-18s—particularly female under-18s—is being completed as we speak. I hope that when that information is available, within the next few months, it will give a better idea of the distinctive needs of young people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 417761,
      "EditedText": "Who will publish the research?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Loucks: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 417762,
      "EditedText": "The young offenders research is a Scottish Prison Service publication. The under-18s work is an internal document at the moment, which is being completed through the social work services group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 417763,
      "EditedText": "We would like to feed into the system the desire of this committee to see the research when it is published."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 417767,
      "EditedText": "During our inspections, we examine what the prisons offer on education. All prisons have an education programme of some sort, depending on resources and so on. All have contracted out education; the programmes are run by contract from outside, by colleges, for example. Funnily enough, Longriggend has one of the best education programmes that I have seen, although other things that go on there are not so good. The root of education is in what the prison is doing for prisoners who cannot read or write and who have esteem problems, and in what short-term measures can be introduced to help to improve prisoners' preparations for going back out into civilian life—I am most interested in that. Only last week, I was at Longriggend, which deals with remand prisoners. While this may not be quite the right answer, I was delighted to see young men—those who were literate and who wanted to—working on computer programs and gaining a sense of how to deal with computers. Other prisoners were being helped with basic English and so on. Education services also included Open University courses for longer-term prisoners. My question about education is: what can we do to help individuals who have basic education needs, so that they can cope when they come out of prison? I have come across other excellent examples, although they might not be relevant to education. For example, we have had many inquiries about Polmont, which is, I think, the only institute where speech therapy is provided to help individuals who have esteem problems. I do not know whether other members of the team want to add anything on education, but while we could always do more for remand prisoners, we must remember that education is voluntary and that we cannot compel people to get involved. Perhaps we could do with more resources, as there are always more prisoners who want education than there are spaces. However, I do not get the impression that there is a crying need for more resources. We are reasonably satisfied with how the education programmes operate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Henaghen (Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons for Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 417768,
      "EditedText": "We are satisfied with the amount of education provided in prisons. We take an education adviser on our inspections—his reports are generally favourable about what goes on in each establishment. He examines the details, including the contracts, and speaks to the colleges that provide the education. As Mr Fairweather said, prisons do well on the education front, although more could be done, as with many other issues. Generally speaking, the education programmes are very satisfactory."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Crossan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 417772,
      "EditedText": "I confirm that this point is not within our remit. However, my personal experience is that a number of people who enter prison for fine defaults in particular, having been handed down the alternative sentence of seven days in prison, are admitted on a Thursday and liberated on the Friday, because of the nature of the legislation. That poses particular problems and creates burdens for management. A person who enters prison on a seven-day sentence and who is liberated the following day goes through the same assessment process, identifying the risk of self-harm, as someone who has been sentenced to 10 years. The transient nature of a significant part of the population in large establishments such as Barlinnie, Perth and Edinburgh causes a number of problems. As Mr Fairweather said, people also do life sentences in instalments and are constantly in and out of prison. It is extremely difficult to know what to do with that group of prisoners. They are not in prison long enough for their needs to be identified; there are also a number of social issues that the social work department does not have time to deal with. Overall, it is difficult to find a solution to the problem posed by that small but significant group of individuals who are constantly in and out of prison doing short sentences. As I said, anyone who comes in for 30 days is out again within 15 days and so on, and it is extremely difficult to know what to do with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 417777,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on what Mr Fairweather said about the terrible problem of suicide in prisons. He said that Inverness has excellent induction arrangements. Can he explain what those arrangements are and how they could be transferred to other prisons? I know that Inverness is a local prison and that the local population is different from that of, say, the central belt. However, perhaps he can talk about good practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 417784,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Prison Service has probably the best induction system that I have seen anywhere for long-term prisoners. Those with long-term sentences go to Shotts. It is the best and I would imagine the envy of most other prison services. Yet at the same time we say in our recent report that we need to have an induction system for young offenders with long sentences. We do not have that yet. Everywhere I find pockets of good examples and other places that need to catch up. In the case of somewhere such as Barlinnie, I find a prison where it is not quite so easy to apply the principles. We are highlighting the whole business of induction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417780",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 417780,
      "EditedText": "How does the ratio of staff to prisoners in Inverness prison compare with Barlinnie, for example? Presumably you need dedicated prison staff to carry out such programmes. In a prison such as Barlinnie, where 200 people come in at a time, is the staff:prisoner ratio lower than in Inverness? Cannot something similar be done on a larger scale?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 417782,
      "EditedText": "It is a flood."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 417805,
      "EditedText": "I want to pin you down on that. Are you saying that you canvass the opinions of prisoners when you do an inspection?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 417806,
      "EditedText": "Very much so. Prisoners' opinions are the basis of our reports. There are two sides in every prison: the staff and management and the prisoners. When we turn up at an inspection, we do not have a set way of doing things, but we do listen to large numbers of prisoners, brought in in groups of two and three. We also talk to prisoners as we go round the work sheds. We talk to groups of prison staff and to management and listen to what they have to say, too. Usually, when we talk to prisoners and staff, the same picture of the main issues quickly emerges."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 417807,
      "EditedText": "Are the figures published?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 417810,
      "EditedText": "No. That information is published by the independent complaints commissioner in his annual report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 417815,
      "EditedText": "I was boxing carefully on that. It is a complicated area and I do not think that I can comment on it. When I speak to sheriffs, they say that I sound a bit of critical of them. I tell them that it is not my area, and they then say that that is fine, but that they do not have many other options. That is the truth of the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Fairweather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 417817,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 417818,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Mr Derek Turner and Mr David Melrose from the Scottish Prison Officers Association. Thank you for agreeing to come. I shall not ask you to make a brief statement, as we probably all have questions arising from what we heard from Clive Fairweather. For the record, I should point out that the SPOA is not the only organisation representing prison officers, but it is fair to say that it is by far the largest. I am sure that both of you will have listened carefully to several things that have been said this morning. It is clear that quite a lot of that will impact directly on your concerns, as a union. Perhaps you could start by telling us whether, in your view, the current methods for training and selecting staff within the Scottish Prison Service, especially for the specialist problems that you have to deal with, are appropriate or whether they could be enhanced and, if so, how."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 417822,
      "EditedText": "Do you know what percentage of your staff is involved in training modules?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 417824,
      "EditedText": "As a general principle, would you agree that identification of officers who display particular skills with particular groups should be examined carefully? Would the SPOA welcome that, or do you have concerns about any attempt to stream officers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 417826,
      "EditedText": "The problem, then, is how to resource that within the current set-up.I know that there are members with questions. There is one—Phil Gallie—sitting to my right. Other members should indicate whether they would like to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 417828,
      "EditedText": "We believe that, since its restructuring four years ago, the Prison Service does not now offer the same opportunities as it did in the past.In the past one started as a prison officer and could become a senior officer, then a principal officer, then a chief officer and governor. We now have a two-tier prison officer structure. One starts as an operational officer on a lower pay scale. Officers must then complete two years' probation before becoming a residential officer, working with the main programmes in the residential areas. After that an officer can only become a supervisor and a unit manager. The system has been condensed a lot and the ability to progress exists for some officers but not for all. I would suggest that there is less job satisfaction in the long term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 417830,
      "EditedText": "Will that 78 per cent per year turnover, which was shown in the report for last year, decline in the future? Are only the younger officers leaving?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 417837,
      "EditedText": "A residential officer is D-banded and an operational officer is C-banded. The D and the C relate to levels of pay. The residential officer has constant contact with a prison population in the area in which he works."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 417838,
      "EditedText": "Is he the guy who is on the spot the majority of the time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 417839,
      "EditedText": "He is in the front line. The operations staff are the recruits into the service and those who are in training and on probation. After probation they have the opportunity to apply for a residential post.When the initiative was introduced, the task was given to those at the level of residential officer. That is quite right because they are the people who deal with the prisoner in the front line. As Derek indicated, it would appear that quite recently that responsibility—and this is my personal opinion—has been devalued. That is where the pennies and the pounds are being saved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 417844,
      "EditedText": "So the decision has been taken for the whole service. Is it happening in all institutions yet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4736959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 417848,
      "EditedText": "Is that happening only on occasion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4893158+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C417854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 417854,
      "EditedText": "I would like to follow up Roseanna's question because I am not very clear what the answer to it was. The previous deputation spoke about steering people with specific aptitudes—for example, dealing with young offenders or women offenders—in the direction of those aptitudes, and that sounds like a good idea. It would, however, depend greatly on agreements between staff and trade unions. While you said that you were in favour of that, you also said that you are in favour of multiskilling, which contradicts that.Phil Gallie mentioned staff turnover, which is alarmingly high. Page 3 of your document says 56 per cent of staff report that they have felt intimidated by someone in a management position and that there is discrimination. Do you think that that contributes to the high staff turnover, which is very high for jobs that have reasonable pay and conditions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 417855,
      "EditedText": "That refers to the stress audit that was carried out and the figure was then alarmingly high, but I do not know what it would be now. It might be better or it might be worse. It was certainly cause for concern then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 417860,
      "EditedText": "I would like to give an example of that—and I am not criticising the job that the service does or tries to do. As a result of the restructuring programme, a great number of what we now call supervisors were put in place; but no training for young promoted officers was provided by the training and development part of the service. Only now, some four years down the line, is there a training programme for supervisors. That may seem to be a criticism, but the training of staff has been identified by the service as a great need, especially for people who move from being officers to being managers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 417861,
      "EditedText": "I am returning to the drugs issue, which Mr Fairweather identified as the central problem. I am concerned about some of the points that have been made. Do Mr Turner and Mr Melrose believe that the ability to tackle drug problems in prisons has been undermined by recent decisions that took away responsibility for the strategy on the shop floor from residential officers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 417862,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that that is only one part of the problem. Drugs are an enormous problem in prisons, as we have known for many years. The more contact that prisoners have with the outside world, the more opportunities there are for drugs to come into prison. We want a more relaxed regime with family contact, but we have to guard against drugs coming in. That is a fine line for prison officers to walk: if we are seen to be too restrictive, we are called thugs and bullies; if we are too soft, we are accused of ignoring the drug problem altogether. Mandatory drug testing is a fundamental part of the overall strategy to tackle the drug problem; if we start to undermine that testing early on, we start to undermine the overall strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 417863,
      "EditedText": "That is the point that I want to pick up on. Do Mr Turner and Mr Melrose think that removing responsibility from residential officers has undermined the service's holistic approach to dealing with drugs in prison?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 417865,
      "EditedText": "But is it a better way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 417869,
      "EditedText": "Why is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 417870,
      "EditedText": "The job descriptions that have been drawn up for various types of job are so complicated that it is sometimes difficult for people to apply for the jobs because they feel that they will never qualify for them. That causes low morale. It may sound petty, but such things impact on the staff of different establishments: it is demoralising for staff to apply for a job after receiving between four and six pages of job description when the chief executive's job had only half a page of description."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 417876,
      "EditedText": "The scheme is cheaper now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 417877,
      "EditedText": "Derek, you said that the high incidence of bullying was a problem for your members. How widespread is the bullying, and what are the procedures for dealing with it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 417878,
      "EditedText": "A report for the trade union indicated that there was a high level of bullying in the service. We have set up two committees to look into it: the goal 5 committee and the occupational health committee. There is a strategy document on victimisation and harassment, but we think it needs to be reviewed, because the staff do not feel that it is a competent or effective document that suits their needs.In the past, we have also asked for an independent complaints commission for prison staff. We raised with management the point that it managed to include a grievance procedure for prisoners in the annual report, but that, although there is a grievance procedure for staff, it did not publish any figures of instances of staff grievances and how they were resolved. We have asked management to consider that, so that there can be an indication of what problems staff are experiencing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 417880,
      "EditedText": "We talk about partnership, but partnership is a two-way street. Both parties must be involved. There is no point in partnership if information available to management is not shared with us, and vice versa. I would like to hear less talk about a partnership approach and to see the production of a partnership document, the values of which would be kept to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 417884,
      "EditedText": "The chief inspector, Mr Fairweather, identified those offenders because he has done studies on them and has had support from specialists. If those specialists have identified a need for such training, it is imperative that we develop such a strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417890",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 417890,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that a member of staff who is sent, for example, to Cornton Vale is somehow expected to just know, on day one, how to operate in that set of circumstances?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Melrose: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 417891,
      "EditedText": "There would be an induction process for staff who are transferred in and they would probably shadow experienced staff for a period of time, but to my knowledge no specific training in the specialised treatment of female prisoners or young offenders is afforded to any officer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 417893,
      "EditedText": "I would hate to sit in a public place and not give people the opportunity to challenge me on a statement.The public feel that society must be able to keep prisons drug free. We worry about schools and take steps to protect them, but prisons, with their level of discipline, must offer people the opportunity of being drug free. However, we read in reports that it is considered a great achievement to establish a drug-free area within a prison. Mr Fairweather said that perhaps at young offenders institutions, people have not yet had time to organise a supply chain. If such a degree of organisation exists in prisons, surely the authorities must recognise it and find a means of stopping it. What are Mr Turner's views on that issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 417895,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. In addition, Mr Turner—commendably—supported the drug testing programme. Does he think that it would be possible to introduce some means of reward for prisoners who test negative, perhaps allowing them physical contact while prisoners who test positive lose that privilege?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 417898,
      "EditedText": "In more than one part of the inspection report, I recall reading a suggestion that involving the families more actively in rehabilitation attempts might be one way of tackling the drug problem in prisons.What you are saying, Mr Turner, seems to cut across that suggestion. Tolerance of the problem among the rest of the family will vary from family to family and from prisoner to prisoner, but might more involvement for the family be one possible way forward, rather than seeing the visit as the family's only involvement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 417899,
      "EditedText": "We have family contact and development officers at some establishments—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 417900,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is the kind of initiative I recall reading about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Turner: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 417901,
      "EditedText": "We cannot take a generic approach, because every family is different, but there is certainly scope for involving family members more in cases where they are supportive of the individual's attempt to break a drug habit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rob Mackay (Acting Chair, Safeguarding Communities Reducing Offending): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 417912,
      "EditedText": "I am the acting chair of SACRO. With me is Susan Matheson, the chief executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 417914,
      "EditedText": "We are using the report on prisons as the starting point for this discussion. A lot of your work has to do with the post-prison scenario, but we will set that aside for the moment. We will examine those issues in the future, but this meeting is about the situation in Scotland's prisons today, or as at 31 March.We want to explore some of the issues raised by Mr Fairweather in the report. He talked about overcrowding and physical conditions in prisons. There is frequent reference to the fabric of our prisons throughout his report. Planned programmes of work have often not gone ahead because funding has not been available. Funds that had been hoped for were not forthcoming. The physical fabric of prisons affects what can be done in prisons. Do you have any comments from SACRO's point of view on the physical environment in which prisoners are expected to live?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 417915,
      "EditedText": "SACRO does not have a remit to inspect prisons, but I have visited a number of them. We are encouraged by the news today that the figures on overcrowding are even better than in Mr Fairweather's report, but there is no room for complacency. It is encouraging that 75 per cent of cells now have sanitation, but the degrading practice of slopping out will continue until 2004-05. We encourage the committee to recommend that resources be allocated to speed up the ending of that practice. If we treat people in a degrading way, we cannot expect their behaviour to improve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 417919,
      "EditedText": "On community-based alternatives, in my paper I gave the committee a number of suggestions about how we might reduce the prison population. Some of them are alternatives to custody. I also mentioned some other ways. We should examine what sort of conduct society believes constitutes a crime. Should some things, such as failure to pay a television licence, be decriminalised? We recommend that there should be a shift to a restorative justice model—which Rob will say more about in a moment—and greater use of diversion from prosecution and other avenues that avoid prosecution, such as referral to victim and accused mediation. That provides answers for victims, who appreciate the opportunity to participate and the accused is faced with the impact of their offence, which enables them to take responsibility, be accountable and make reparation.You discussed remand earlier. If people receive intense bail supervision and support they may not need to go into prison on remand. That is working especially well in Edinburgh, and to some extent in Glasgow, and it should be provided as an option for all courts. Community-based alternatives include programmes such as intensive group work for probationers. It is very challenging, hard work and it is not a soft option. The young men—and it is usually men, although there are some programmes for women—are pretty reluctant to come into such programmes. They would rather just do what they are used to doing—going inside for a little while or paying a fine. On the programmes they are faced with what they have done and how they came to do it. That makes a difference to their behaviour and they manage to turn around during the period of their attendance at the group work programme.Where offending is related to alcohol or drug use, there are programmes designed to make people take responsibility for their offending behaviour rather than blaming the alcohol.Gordon Jackson touched on another subject that we think is important: an end to imprisonment for fine default. Fifty seven per cent of those in prison for fine default are in for seven days or less. What can the Prison Service do in that time? The period of imprisonment may be as short as one day, so it is expensive in administrative terms.Some people may accept imprisonment instead of a fine; if they know the system, they may know that it will be for only one night. Imprisonment for fine default is being used as a punishment for poverty and it disrupts not only the Prison Service, but the home lives of prisoners.How could we reduce or stop imprisonment for fine default? One way might be for the committee to recommend a review of supervised attendance orders, which are not working as well as had been hoped. If someone breaches a supervised attendance order, the prison term that they get may be far longer than the term they would have had for the original offence or non-payment of fine. The orders were supposed to take the place of fines, so we need to examine the matter carefully.Although we do not want to interfere with judicial discretion, we feel that the committee ought to consider whether there should be sentencing guidelines. As members of the committee will be aware, there are few rules governing sentencing in Scotland, and a study suggests that that may lead to unjust disparities in sentencing. A full range of options must be available to all courts. The provision of alternatives to custody is geographically very patchy, and not all courts have a full menu of the alternatives that are available to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C417920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 417920,
      "EditedText": "Susan Matheson's comprehensive answer to Tricia's question has covered a number of subjects that I wanted to talk about. We should explore the issue of supervised bail. It is now some 10 years since I worked actively in the criminal justice system, but I recall that one major problem was that without an address an offender could not be bailed. Many people—especially young people—ended up on remand for that reason. Are there many bail hostels throughout Scotland, or is provision still patchy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 417929,
      "EditedText": "It is an interesting idea that all the problems are the fault of local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mackay: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 417930,
      "EditedText": "That is not what I am saying."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C417934",
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 417934,
      "EditedText": "We give general life skills and accommodation support and, in some cases, refer them to a specialist drug agency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 417936,
      "EditedText": "Our support accommodation services are more widespread than some others, but they are still available only in some areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 417941,
      "EditedText": "Susan Matheson made some interesting points about Apex, but I would like to return to what she said about sentencing guidelines. How have people responded to the availability of mediation and reparation alternatives to custody? I understand that such alternatives are effective only if the victim of the crime agrees to get involved, and some people would prefer to have their day in court. What has been the uptake of the service and how successful has it been?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 417942,
      "EditedText": "I do not have the exact figures in front of me, but I know that a high proportion of victims want to participate. Our mediators visit the victims, explain how the service works and ensure that they do not feel under any pressure to take part in the scheme. Most victims want to participate because they want the answers that they will not get if they go to court. If people's houses have been broken into, they often wonder, \"Did he know I was on holiday? Is he going to come back? Why me?\" They get answers to those questions through the mediation scheme, which otherwise they would not.They can also have a say in what reparation is made. Victims often want an apology, which can be difficult for the accused to give. Research shows that victims feel a lot better if they get an apology and that mediation is a better way of going about things. However, the service is available only in North and South Lanarkshire, Aberdeen and Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 417943,
      "EditedText": "Another lottery."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 417945,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that people from justices of the peace right up to the Sheriffs Association would be keen to hear your views on sentencing guidelines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 417951,
      "EditedText": "Such alternatives would have to be available across the board, but they are not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 417952,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 417959,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in what you had to say about young offenders, and the need to deal with them at an early stage, before there is any question of a custodial sentence. I notice that you have been involved in some schemes whereby the police were able to refer young people directly to you. How young are the young people with whom you deal? Although our discussions do not cover children's panels, I feel that youngsters perhaps need another approach. I know that children's panels can make referrals that cannot be carried out because of a lack of facilities. Are you involved in children's panels, as well as with older young offenders?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 523.0,
      "ContributionID": 417971,
      "EditedText": "Members are welcome to visit our headquarters or HMP Edinburgh—Saughton—to see what is going on and to speak to the people involved. I have found that first-hand experience brings it alive and has a greater impact than reading pieces of paper. I realise that you have other work pressures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 417962,
      "EditedText": "I am conscious that I did not cover Tricia Marwick's question about women offenders—I do not know whether there is time for me to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 527.0,
      "ContributionID": 417973,
      "EditedText": "As Ed Wozniak, one of my senior officials, told me, the Prison Service cannot determine the number of prisoners; the statistical projections suggest that the prison population might rise further. We have to be ready to deal with those prisoners as well as we can.The average time that we accommodate prisoners is two months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 529.0,
      "ContributionID": 417974,
      "EditedText": "Is that the average?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 417977,
      "EditedText": "To answer your first question—and I do so from my previous experience and my knowledge of industry—the turnover of staff in the Scottish Prison Service is not particularly high. Many industries have turnovers which are much higher. In any organisation, a balance must be struck between retaining and making the most of the people that one has and having movement through the system to avoid rigidity. I would want to look at that balance. I have no fixed view about what those proportions should be—that is an on-going issue. There is a market in labour, like any other market, and we must retain, motivate and attract the people whom we need. I do not have a view on your second question about open visits. If you had asked me two weeks ago whether we allowed them, I would not have been able to answer you. I am not going to express an opinion at the moment because I am aware that there is a history to this issue. I am also aware that, in the prison system, there is an up-the-gears system. People are rewarded for good behaviour and there are penalties for disruptive and bad behaviour. I would want to take a cool look at how open visits work in the context of the other rewards and penalties that exist."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 417981,
      "EditedText": "I read the report, and I note the bit about Longriggend. You are quite right. I gather that we have not made much recent investment in Longriggend, as we are going to close it. That was announced some months ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 417982,
      "EditedText": "That is definite?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C417985",
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      "ID": 143
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 417985,
      "EditedText": "The question at the moment is not whether it is going to close, but when and how and what happens to the prisoners. I was told yesterday that an SPS working party is working on the complicated logistics that are required. As Clive Fairweather's team said, we must ensure that we have suitable places in which to put prisoners."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 417987,
      "EditedText": "No. That is what the working party is looking at."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 417988,
      "EditedText": "Is there a time scale for the working party? If we are in a situation where we know that Longriggend is closing but not when or how or what the fallout will be, do we at least know when we will know?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 417991,
      "EditedText": "The staff know that the prison is scheduled for closure. I noticed it in one of the newsletters being circulated to them; it was one of the first things that I saw when I arrived. Staff also know that there is a working party on the arrangements for closure.You are right about what the chief inspector's report says on Longriggend. However, paragraph 5.6 concludes:\"As the century ends, there is much to be optimistic about . . . Inspections of the longer term prisons . . . have led us to conclude that the service is meeting the challenge of protecting the public from serious criminals. It is also tackling, in a rational way, some of the factors which lead to criminal behaviour.\"As in any report, one expects to see good and bad. I do not think that any of us would claim that things are perfect—by no means. A lot of work has been and needs to be done at Cornton Vale for those unfortunate people. The question of the numbers at Cornton Vale is, of course, primarily a matter for the judiciary, not the prison service. We must deal with the amount that we are sent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 575.0,
      "ContributionID": 417997,
      "EditedText": "Low Moss is intended, as I understand it, for continuation. I will be visiting in the next few days to see the position for myself, but my understanding is that there is a continuing need for Low Moss; its location close to Glasgow is particularly helpful. However, we need to make some improvements there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 577.0,
      "ContributionID": 417998,
      "EditedText": "In view of the report, that might be an understatement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 606.0,
      "ContributionID": 418012,
      "EditedText": "You do not think that anything is going wrong?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 610.0,
      "ContributionID": 418014,
      "EditedText": "At Low Moss?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 612.0,
      "ContributionID": 418015,
      "EditedText": "I do not know about Low Moss. I have not visited it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 616.0,
      "ContributionID": 418017,
      "EditedText": "I cannot comment on the position at Low Moss, other than with respect to what is in the corporate plan, which the committee has."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C418020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 622.0,
      "ContributionID": 418020,
      "EditedText": "The document is entitled \"Work and health in the Scottish Prison Service: a report for the trade union side\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5049427+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ruth Sutherland (Private Secretary to the Chief Executive of the Scottish Prison Service): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 642.0,
      "ContributionID": 418030,
      "EditedText": "A programme of staff research is on-going. We recognise the importance of staffing issues and Ed Wozniak and his group are looking at another programme of staff research to sit alongside what the TUS have done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 652.0,
      "ContributionID": 418035,
      "EditedText": "I have never heard of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 662.0,
      "ContributionID": 418040,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps people need to be brought together to communicate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 664.0,
      "ContributionID": 418041,
      "EditedText": "I did not have the issues in my mind because the trade union side did not mention them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 666.0,
      "ContributionID": 418042,
      "EditedText": "I, too, want to pick up on the report by the trade unions. I also want to pick up on what Christine said about training, which is crucial and should be prioritised. That may mean employing extra prison officers to cover time off for training."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 670.0,
      "ContributionID": 418044,
      "EditedText": "I also wonder whether some training is required on the management side. The following comments appear in the document: \"Most stress is caused by inexperienced management who do not realise it is a prison service they are working in. Stop bringing in graduates who don't have a clue.\"That is the statement of someone who is totally fed up with a particular situation, but they may be raising an important issue.Equal opportunities also seem to be an issue. The report indicates that many people feel discriminated against because of age—either because they are young or because they are old—sex, trade union activity, religion, race, disability and sexuality. That covers the whole gamut of equal opportunities issues—both management and prison officers may require training in that area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 672.0,
      "ContributionID": 418045,
      "EditedText": "We can consider that. After such a long list of types of discrimination, one wonders what is left."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C418046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 674.0,
      "ContributionID": 418046,
      "EditedText": "Obviously not much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C418047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 676.0,
      "ContributionID": 418047,
      "EditedText": "I will not refer Mr Cameron to the report, which he has not read, but I will refer him to one of the slides that he and Mr Wallace were shown. It states that the service failed to meet targets for the number of serious assaults on staff and the number of serious assaults on prisoners. Surely the target has to be nothing. We should not condemn the system to accepting a certain number of assaults—the objective has to be no assaults on either prisoners or staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 678.0,
      "ContributionID": 418048,
      "EditedText": "As Clive Fairweather said, in an ideal world that would be the case. We are dealing with a far from ideal world. All that we can do is show trends and hope that they indicate an improvement. Unfortunately, that does not appear to be the case with assaults. As Mrs McIntosh observes, this is a serious issue, to which I referred in my opening remarks. It is one of the things that struck me. The targets are those that appear in our annual report to Parliament. I agree that this is a worrying issue; as I understand it, assaults are related to drugs use. I think that the inspector would agree.I should have said earlier that there are no issues on which I would disagree radically with Clive and his team. The inspectorate seems to have focused on the issues to which my attention has been drawn over the past few days; its priorities are the areas in which we, too, are investing extra effort. I find it heartening that the signals that I am getting during my induction as chief executive are more or less the same as those that Clive is getting as independent inspector. It is helpful that there is a close correlation between the two and that everyone is pulling in the same direction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C418051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 684.0,
      "ContributionID": 418051,
      "EditedText": "We need to know as soon as possible the timetable for closure of Longriggend. We also need a commitment that, if Longriggend does not close for some time, money will be spent on the prison and it will not be left in its current dilapidated condition. Surely there is some money within the Prison Service to make things a bit better for Longriggend, even though it is shutting down?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C418054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Cameron: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 690.0,
      "ContributionID": 418054,
      "EditedText": "It was an extremely helpful experience."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C418056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 694.0,
      "ContributionID": 418056,
      "EditedText": "Convener, before you close the meeting, I ask that you do not invite anyone other than the Law Society and the Association of Police Superintendents to next week's meeting. It is obvious that we have had to cut down our questions today, which is somewhat discourteous to some of the people who have come before us. We should limit the number of people who come before us, as that might enable us to give them sufficient time and allow us to cover our business correctly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 697.0,
      "ContributionID": 418057,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is a difficult judgment to make. As I recall, last week, we dealt with business in only an hour and a half, despite the fact that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C418061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 705.0,
      "ContributionID": 418061,
      "EditedText": "That is an excellent idea, as we have a breathing space that we did not think that we would have. We can consider doing what Pauline suggests on one or two of the September dates that are still available.Thank you, everyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.5205643+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 417980,
      "EditedText": "I will go easy on you as you have had only 12 days, but I do not think that you can get away with saying that we have more people in prison but treat them better. Clive Fairweather said of Low Moss that it was like going to a world war two prisoner-of-war camp. It is Scotland's most violent prison and there are at least, as I understand it, 362 people in those conditions. He also said that Longriggend, where there are 138 people, was in a dreadful condition and that something should be done about it—I am paraphrasing. We have also heard that Cornton Vale contains sad people, not bad people. The Scottish Prison Service faces major problems. That is not quite as cosy as the way in which we started, but I am being gentle with you yet.I am glad to see that changing the management style is on your induction list. The prison officers, whose evidence you heard, talked about high job stress and the failure to consult; they said that they felt that they did not seem to have any input. They may be consulted about something at the beginning, but after that things go through some mysterious system and are handed down to the men who have to work at the basic level of delivering a proper prison service that, we hope, stops people returning to crime. Something must happen about that for the sake of the prison officers. If there is low morale in a profession, reform can be forgotten.Those are two shots across your bow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7457098+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 417953,
      "EditedText": "I am glad to hear Ms Matheson's caveat about judicial discretion. Sometimes, people who do not fully understand the facts of a case call for heavier sentences; that sort of popular opinion can often be misplaced.I would like an explanation of a couple of the points in the SACRO briefing paper. First, what is the arrest referral scheme, currently used in conjunction with the turnaround project in Glasgow and with the police and social work departments? Secondly, the document mentions consistent treatment of remand prisoners. What inconsistencies exist and are they geographical?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3233078+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 417758,
      "EditedText": "At the moment it seems to depend on where the young offenders land up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 417814,
      "EditedText": "I asked whether you thought that too many people were being put on remand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 11186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 417832,
      "EditedText": "What is the SPOA's input to such things as induction programmes? How much are grass-roots prison officers consulted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2380
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 417887,
      "EditedText": "After consultation with the prison officers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.2249415+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 240650,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:46"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6316,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6316,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mike Watson): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 240651,
      "EditedText": "I now call to order the fourth meeting of the Finance Committee. For the benefit of everyone in the room, please ensure that mobile phones are turned off and pagers are on vibrate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 6317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 240655,
      "EditedText": "No, the policy memorandum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 6317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 240657,
      "EditedText": "It is headed \"policy memorandum\" and sets out the policy objectives of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 6317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 240659,
      "EditedText": "It clearly says that—put very simply—the bill sets out the manner in which the Parliament can examine the auditing, accounting and control of all funds paid out of the Scottish consolidated fund. My concern is that the bill should clarify the relationship between the Scotland Office, the Advocate General's office and the Secretary of State for Scotland, because the Scottish consolidated fund falls out of the grant that is conferred on the Scottish Parliament by the Secretary of State for Scotland. I can see no constitutional means for examining the basis on which the allocation is made. In current circumstances, there is no problem because the Scottish Executive and the Government at Westminster are the same party. However, we need to take cognisance of the anomaly that exists, because I do not see any way in which the Scottish Parliament can express its view on the moneys that are passed down by the Secretary of State. At the moment, he retains funding merely for administrative matters, but there is nothing to stop him from retaining more.Secondly, there are no clear means by which we can examine the efficiency of the Secretary of State's administration of his own funds. That remains a matter for Westminster. It is a serious anomaly. If we made known our views and asked the Executive for suggestions about the way in which such means could be set up, it would help promote a healthy relationship between the Parliament and Westminster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 6317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 240660,
      "EditedText": "That is an issue of the moment, in as much as there is the suggestion of increased expenditure from the Scotland Office, where that money comes from; as is whether we will have the chance to express a view on it. I note what you say. Does anyone want to comment on that matter before we decide what to do? Otherwise, I suggest that we write to the minister with those views and invite him to comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 240667,
      "EditedText": "I do not agree with John. Parliamentary questions are parliamentary questions and are on the record. If we are provided with data, they are not necessarily for public circulation. Parliamentary questions are a crucial part of the way any Parliament works. If the Executive has underestimated the cost of running the Parliament—as one sees in the papers—that is its pigeon. It was clear from the start that we were going to do far more, more quickly, than had been anticipated—and that includes parliamentary questions. The administrative costs have been grossly underestimated. Certain people have to take responsibility for that, but I am not going to reduce the number of parliamentary questions I lodge as a result."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 240669,
      "EditedText": "That is not really the general issue that I am raising. We need access to information to allow the committee to play its part in the formation of \"a rigorous financial management regime under the control of the Scottish Parliament\". If I cannot receive certain information from publicly available sources, I will ask a series of parliamentary questions. I have spent two years in the House of Commons doing exactly that. I would far rather have access to information that allows me to undertake my own research so that I can suggest initiatives about, for example, the budget process. The bill's framework will allow us to consider other policy options. Committees of the Parliament might suggest ideas that differ from the Executive's proposals and we will need to assess the financial viability of some of them. If we can do that only through a plethora of parliamentary questions, we will not be as effective as we might be in judging different proposals.I do not want members to stop asking parliamentary questions, but we need to have access to information that allows us to perform our job properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 240670,
      "EditedText": "John, I just want you to clarify your point. Are you suggesting that the committee should request information as a body, or should individual members of the committee do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 240672,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with John, but I am not going to fall out with my Labour coalition partners. As John well knows, the figures and statistics in \"Serving Scotland's Needs\" are sometimes rather obscure and it helps to ask Parliamentary questions to pin down the Executive's intentions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 240673,
      "EditedText": "Whatever we decide today, there is no restriction on you or any other member asking questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 240677,
      "EditedText": "At Westminster, there is a culture of secrecy in the Treasury and the civil service. However, all the evidence suggests that this Parliament will not behave like that and the Administration has clearly stated that intention. Jack McConnell, the Minister for Finance, has shown a willingness to present the figures that we need in a way that we can understand. It is the committee's duty to maintain that policy, but the signs are that the Scottish Office's culture of secrecy will change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C240684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 240684,
      "EditedText": "We are moving to a system of resource accounting and budgeting, which will change reporting on financial matters and make finding out what information is available now and what will be available in the near future even more worthwhile. It is difficult to present financial information in an easy-to-understand form, but that can be facilitated by improved financial systems on modern IT systems, which appears to be the direction in which we are moving."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 240686,
      "EditedText": "Andrew mentioned the form of accounts. A briefing note from the finance department talks about preparing accounts in a form directed by the Scottish ministers. I would have thought that the committee will play a role in agreeing any such layout."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 240687,
      "EditedText": "Can you identify the document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 240688,
      "EditedText": "When I was up in my constituency, I received a faxed quick guide to the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill. Page 4 of the fax deals with section 18 of the bill. I think that the text is taken from another document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 240689,
      "EditedText": "Item 6 in Jack McConnell's letter of 3 September deals with that point. The letter says:\"I am happy to give you an assurance that I will consult the Committee about the format of the accounts of the Executive Departments before the initial Directions are issued; or on any revisions that make substantial changes. The format of the accounts will be closely connected with the format of documents to be put before the Parliament in support of the Budget Bills.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 6317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 240652,
      "EditedText": "The agenda has been circulated. Today, we will consider stage 1 of the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill. We will first consider the general principles of the bill that are relevant to the committee. It is our role to report to the Audit Committee, which has been designated as the lead committee for the bill. It is not our role today to go into detailed discussion on alterations or amendments to the bill or to comment on the detail of the bill, as that can be done at stage 2. Formally, we have to say that having considered the general principles of the bill, we find nothing on which we wish to comment. We are in uncharted territory. I invite comment from members on the general principles of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 6317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 240653,
      "EditedText": "We all accept the broad principles. We discussed in earlier meetings some of the points that were brought to our attention. There are some details that we will have to consider later, but at this stage we should put down a marker on written understandings and on the form of accounts. We all agree that there is a need for close dialogue—Jack McConnell, the Minister for Finance, is in favour of that. He has said that he will not legislate for the form of accounts. That will be more flexible. We should make it clear to him—as the convener has done in his correspondence—that there is a need for on-going dialogue. Forgive me for raising my first point on the general principles of the bill in this forum, but it is important. The policy memorandum makes the point that the bill provides for financial control, accounts and audit matters—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 6317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 240658,
      "EditedText": "It is on page 1."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 6317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 240662,
      "EditedText": "We commented on that in our meeting with Jack McConnell prior to the recess. He is not just saying that secondary rather than primary legislation will be used, but that standing orders can be devised to allow for the curtailment of the process. If you remember, our main concern was the time that it would take. In terms of the wording, this should not just be about amending the standing orders. I suggest that we recommend the introduction of new standing orders, to provide a set time scale to meet the objectives of the committee that we outlined when we met in June.I will discuss it with the clerk, but we are not sure whether we could get that suggestion through in time for the revision that is about to take place. In any case, it would not matter if it was delayed until next year's revision—which I understand is to take place in the spring—because the new procedures would not begin until next year's budget. The first budget revision of that year would not be until the autumn of 2000, by which time the new standing orders would have come into play anyway. I hope that I have not complicated things by the way in which I have described them, but it seems that we could get revised standing orders into place in time for the first budget revision, which they would affect.With your approval, I will suggest to the Procedures Committee that the standing orders be amended or added to in a way that allows the time scale referred to by the minister to take effect.Andrew mentioned the written understandings. We have been assured that a draft will be with us by stage 2. The bill is in line with the financial issues advisory group report, which we welcomed. With the exception of the matter that we have just discussed, is it the accepted view of the committee that we welcome the bill? Does anyone want to raise anything else on item 1 of the agenda before we go on to the financial memorandum? It seems not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 240664,
      "EditedText": "Which is saying something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 240665,
      "EditedText": "Yes, indeed. You will have noted that with the exception of the section on the cost of Audit Scotland, there are no precise figures. There is a section on the Auditor General, but by and large the memorandum is necessarily speculative. I suspect that that is almost always going to be the case with financial memorandums. Does anyone wish to comment at this stage? We also have the financial resolution in front of us, which is written in very wide terms. We are required to approve that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 240666,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for harking back to a subject I harp on about almost every time the committee meets, but paragraph 166 of the financial memorandum says that\"the Executive has already noticed an increased number of Parliamentary Questions on financial matters since the establishment of the Scottish Parliament.\"That does not surprise me, because it is a subject of great interest. A swift solution to the problem would be to make available, regularly, the financial data that the committee has asked to be provided with. That would allow us to avoid burdening the civil service with parliamentary questions and to do our own research with the available data. That information would also help us to address the issue that is raised in the paragraph and allow us to contribute to the debate on the objective—which I firmly support—in the first line:\"a rigorous financial management regime under the control of the Scottish Parliament\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 240671,
      "EditedText": "I do not understand why we cannot have access to much more of the information that underpins the annual publication of \"Serving Scotland's Needs\", which outlines the Government's expenditure plans in Scotland. If we were able to access the data and the management information that support the document, that would address my point. That information—which I suspect is held on computer anyway—should also be available to any MSP to dip into as he or she sees fit. I do not think that it would cost very much to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 240675,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the direction of Richard's comments. At times in the House of Commons, I have asked many questions only because I could not access the amount of detailed information that I needed. I—or a researcher—would have been happy to examine that information, but it was not available. The process of asking questions means large costs to the public purse and much inconvenience to civil servants, who still jostle past me in corridors because of the amount of questions that I have asked. It is important to find out what information is at our disposal to evaluate proposals or initiatives that might be laid before the committee during the budget process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 240690,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 240694,
      "EditedText": "I have two points which relate to paragraphs 166 and 167 of the financial memorandum. Paragraph 166 states:\"The Executive has already noticed an increased amount of Parliamentary Questions on financial matters since the establishment of the Scottish Parliament\".I think that we should discourage financial memorandums being used to make political points for the Executive. The campaign against parliamentary questions is regrettable. The Executive has noticed no such increase in questions, because the Executive did not exist before the Parliament was established. Furthermore, because the issue does not affect the cost of the bill, I see no reason for that glib aside to be included.Paragraph 167 refers to costs of auditing Scottish Administration-related accounts, which were previously met out of the UK consolidated fund and to the fact that, because of that, there will be no change to the Scottish Administration's audit costs. My question is a request for clarification, because I could not find the information in the documents with which we have been issued. Will the money that is currently paid into the UK consolidated fund for the work of the National Audit Office now be translated by the Barnett formula into the Scottish consolidated fund? If we have not been notified of such a change, that is a problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6318,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 240695,
      "EditedText": "We will arrange for your second question to be asked.I am not quite clear about your first point on paragraph 166. I understood that the comparison was being made between the period up to 2 July and the recess period. Keith made the point about questions being asked during the recess. I have no particular view on that, but perhaps there is more need to ask written questions during the recess when there is no opportunity to question ministers. I did not take the comment to be a political point; I thought that it was an admission that the matter had developed in a way that had not been foreseen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 240696,
      "EditedText": "Fine."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 240698,
      "EditedText": "With respect, Keith did not get the point. Nobody wants to stifle parliamentary questions—that would be quite inappropriate. David made a point about discipline. I would be appalled if someone disciplined me for asking questions, but I apply self-discipline when asking questions and there is a lack of that at the moment. We have a responsibility to be frugal with public funds and there is no excuse for asking unnecessary questions that cost £100 each. The Executive has agreed to publish an audit of the questions that have been asked, arranged by subject and by MSP. It has agreed to my request that it find out whether the requested information was already in the public domain. That will not stop anyone asking questions, but it will hold members accountable for the money that they spend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 6317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 240654,
      "EditedText": "Are you talking about the financial memorandum?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 6317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 240656,
      "EditedText": "Which page is that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 6317,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6317,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 240661,
      "EditedText": "The minister's acceptance that the budget bill should be introduced by way of primary legislation is to be welcomed. In an earlier meeting, we largely came to the conclusion that we want the budget bill and any revisions in primary legislation. The feedback from external organisations with expertise in this area and the consideration that has been given to the matter by the minister suggest that a sensible position has been arrived at, which allows us to legislate for the budget but to have an efficient process of carrying out budget revisions. The committee will have a great deal to do with the process of budget revisions and examining secondary legislation. I assume that we will have a say in the consideration of secondary legislation in this area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 240663,
      "EditedText": "The financial memorandum, which appears from page 47 onwards in the explanatory notes, is less precise than the financial memorandum that we looked at last week, relating to the Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 240668,
      "EditedText": "I wondered whether you registered an interest at the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 240674,
      "EditedText": "Keith was not in the chamber when I asked my question about parliamentary questions. We need to strike a balance. If John or any other committee member feels that the Executive is not giving us enough published information, the committee should investigate the matter. As part of the examination of parliamentary questions that I called for, we should find out what information is not being made available. I agree with John. We should constantly monitor the boundary between what information we can obtain through parliamentary questions and what should be readily available to us. No member should have to ask regular parliamentary questions to obtain that information.Keith will have missed the fact that, since the start of the Parliament, 1,300 questions have been asked at a cost of £130,000, which is excessive by any stretch of the imagination. The system of parliamentary questions is not being used appropriately at the moment, but that is probably because we are in the first flush of the Parliament. Although no member should ever feel that he or she cannot ask a question, answers to many questions could have been obtained through reasonable research. However, John is right to point out that if those answers cannot be obtained through research, we need to examine why that information is not available and whether we need to address the issue of the boundary that I mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 240676,
      "EditedText": "At the committee's successful financial seminar, John and I queried the level of headline figures and concluded that the level was not low enough: the figure 1.4 sticks in my mind. We need to reduce that figure a little more. It would help many MSPs if SPICe could make such information available.On the number of parliamentary questions being asked, members have a responsibility not to try and score brownie points by getting their name on the business bulletin 12 times in a row. Within those 12 questions, there might be only two real questions. MSPs should not be prevented from asking questions, but there should be a system that does not allow them to ask a question in five or six different ways."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 240678,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should test that. I would be unhappy if I felt that committee members had to lodge parliamentary questions to get information in order to perform the committee's work. The committee is a body, not a collection of individuals, and we, as a committee, should be entitled to ask for information that we need. Perhaps we should ask for information that we need. If we do not get it, we will investigate other ways to achieve our objective. However, I repeat that I hope that we will not have to resort to committee members asking ordinary parliamentary written questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6318,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 240679,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the Parliament could follow Westminster's example and not allow written questions to be lodged during the recess. That is where we differ from Westminster. This Parliament's system means that MSPs tend to do research through parliamentary questions rather than in other ways."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 240680,
      "EditedText": "With respect, Keith, that is not the issue. The question is whether the committee has access to information that it needs to do its job properly. John has suggested that the system needs to be tested by, for example, our requesting details behind the bald figures in \"Serving Scotland's Needs\". Should we test the system by deciding what extra information we need and then asking for it? If we get what we want, fine; but if we do not, we should investigate other ways of ensuring that we are properly resourced with the information we need to do our job."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6318,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 240681,
      "EditedText": "Could we invite someone from a relevant department to talk to the committee about where we can access information that we need? That still leaves us to do our work as MSPs; but as committee members we would have a better understanding of where to look for such information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6318,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 240682,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We also need to have signposts.Shall we ask the clerk to find out about who could speak to us about the information that is available? We can then take the matter from there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 240683,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 240685,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point. Our briefing should also give us information about the changes to the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 240691,
      "EditedText": "The last sentence of item 6 in the letter also states that drafts of the format of accounts will be brought forward during stage 2 of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6318,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 240692,
      "EditedText": "The problem is when that will happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 240693,
      "EditedText": "Jack McConnell says that it will happen during stage 2, so I would expect that to happen in the next month."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6318,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 240697,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Andrew's point. The comment about questions in paragraph 166 has an undertone. I believe that we should be allowed to ask parliamentary questions, and that is that. The situation is only to be expected because the Parliament has just been set up and the Administration has never been as accountable as it is now, with its plethora of committees and with weekly oral questions. The number of questions will probably trickle off after a while, but the Executive should have expected the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1397
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Finance",
      "HeadingID": 6318,
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      "ID": 6318,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 240699,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to prolong this discussion as it is not part of our agenda. Andrew Wilson made a point about paragraph 166 and Keith Raffan supported him. That has been noted.Unless there are new items relating to the financial memorandum, I would like to close the meeting. Are we agreed that the provisions are reasonable? We are agreed.That concludes today's business. Thank you for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240700",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 130
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 240700,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 10:16."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.6026954+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5978,
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:03"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 232018,
      "EditedText": "The first item on our agenda is a discussion on the treaty of Amsterdam and its implications for Scotland. I welcome Dermot Scott from the European Parliament and Elizabeth Holt from the European Commission to the committee. Before I ask them to take us through the presentation on the treaty of Amsterdam—that is after Mr Wilson has stopped giving us a tune on his mobile phone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 232019,
      "EditedText": "Sorry."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 232020,
      "EditedText": "I should say that they are here in an informal capacity. They are not here to answer questions about the new Commission or anything else that might be going on."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C232031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Holt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 232031,
      "EditedText": "There are differences of opinion among large and small member states about the sort of union that we should have. That is partly driven by an economic rationale, but also by several other things. The lack of agreement last time showed just how powerful small member states are in holding up the larger ones. There is much greater equality than there appears to be from the outside. It is in everyone's interests for enlargement to succeed. I say that with the caveat that it is essential that enlargement is not used to dilute the democratic achievement of the European Union and the conditions that prevail in member states. Any new country will be required to come up to the European Union's level, rather than the European Union making concessions. One of the reasons enlargement is taking such a long time is that it takes member states time to prepare. Behind the current process of negotiations is a huge and elaborate process of development—not just political, but economic and social. I have never found the small countries in the European Union shy about protecting their interests and I do not expect it to be any different next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dermot Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 232023,
      "EditedText": "The second area for discussion is freedom, justice and security—the third pillar of the Maastricht treaty. There are two contrary tendencies in this area. There is a desire to improve freedom of movement for the citizens of Europe—as a personal right and as a means of assisting in the breakdown of barriers to trade, industry and economic development; there is also an unwillingness to let that happen if it will lead to more cross-border crime. Internationalising crime flies in the face of the logic of such treaties. All member states except Britain, Ireland and Denmark agreed to the freedom of movement across borders provided for by the Schengen agreement—Schengen is the name of the village in Luxembourg where the agreement took place. The agreement was made outside the Treaty on European Union. The Amsterdam treaty brings it in so that it is now incorporated in the treaty. To allow for the fact that Britain has a different view, however, one must allow for flexibility. How does one do that? In the treaty of Amsterdam, the circle has been squared by setting out precise instructions about how certain countries may go ahead, under what conditions they may do so and whether other member states can stop them. Because the detail has been laid out in the Amsterdam treaty, there is permission to invoke the Schengen agreement for some, but not all, countries. There are detailed provisions that allow Ireland, in particular, to rejoin if it wishes.Denmark is in a curious half-in, half-out situation. It complies with the agreement, but under title 6 of the treaty of Maastricht rather than under title 3 of the treaty of Amsterdam. As usual, it is a very complex procedure.Visa policy, residence permits and asylum procedures are now included in the text of the European Community treaty. They have been brought into the treaty structure and in five years' time a decision can be made to move to majority voting on them.There are also rules for civil-judicial co-operation as part of that title. That should mean that visa policy, residence permits and asylum procedures are now subject to Community rule, and possibly, in five years, to majority voting. Rules on civil-judicial co-operation are not yet subject to Community rules.As is elaborated in the treaty, decisions made to improve the European police office for better information exchange are the counterpoint to the freedom of movement. In other words, if there is to be freedom of movement, the police in different countries must have freedom to enjoy effective exchange of information. Europol is not yet a federal bureau of investigation for the European Union. It is a mechanism whereby national police forces co-operate. It is an information exchange.In criminal matters, police remain inter-governmental. The fights against terrorism, organised crime, crimes against children, drugs, fraud and corruption also remain inter-governmental. Governments co-operate in those areas, although those areas are not communitised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Holt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 232024,
      "EditedText": "The treaty has been used to bring greater effectiveness and coherence to the European Union's external policy. The strategy that lies behind the treaty of Amsterdam is two-pronged. The treaty extends the scope of the EU's common commercial policy to promote its worldwide economic interests. The second part of the strategy is a reform of the EU approach to a common foreign and security policy.From the outset, the EC has always defended the commercial interests of member states. However, international trade in the 1990s is very different from what it was in the 1960s, when it involved mainly agriculture and manufacturing. Invisibles now account for most of the wealth of the EU, which is why the Amsterdam treaty has extended the competence of the common commercial policy to the key areas of intellectual property and services.That there should be such an extension of the common commercial policy is underlined by the fact that 92 per cent of the union's gross domestic product comes from trade between member states. External trade makes up only a relatively small proportion of Europe's wealth. Europe has become a single economic entity.We still have a few things to cover, and I would like to look briefly at foreign policy. Progress has been necessarily limited. The need for caution and to take incremental steps is obvious. We are, in effect, moving towards a common foreign policy and strategy, but we are still far from it. The Amsterdam treaty amounts to a set of innovative principles, but not a great deal more.The common foreign and security policy is grounded in the principle of territorial integrity of member states. Great care has been taken to ensure that it is in explicit conformity with the principles of the United Nations charter. However, it expects member states to increase the amount of co-operation and to develop, where possible, new forms of political solidarity. The union is now empowered to carry out humanitarian aid and peacekeeping tasks, which are known as Petersburg tasks. One very positive move is that even the union's traditionally neutral member states—Austria, Finland, Sweden and Ireland—have agreed to contribute to humanitarian and peacekeeping missions. It is felt that their neutral status is not in any way threatened or questioned, which is obviously very important.The treaty has also brought in some innovative decision-making methods, allowing for the working out of common strategies, general guidelines, joint actions and common positions to be decided by the European Council. I think that you can feel the caution that underlines this whole area of policy, but those methods can be put into effect by a qualified majority of the Council, to ensure the flexibility that is essential to any foreign policy operation. Also worth noting is the constructive abstention clause, which allows one or more member state to abstain on certain decisions without preventing the other member states from acting. The most important decisions, however, are put to the Council for a unanimous vote.The new approach has been given further prominence by the creation of a high representative for common, foreign and security policy. The French initials for that are PESC: Mr PESC is a lot easier than Mr CFSP. When people are talking in French, they often refer to the new high representative as Mr PESC, but that is a bit too close to Mr Pesky in my estimation. You will all be aware that the representative is Javier Solana, the former secretary general of NATO. That really puts a face and a name on developing European Union foreign policy.A policy planning and early warning unit has also been established, to help the union's member states identify and anticipate crises. That is important if we consider the events of the past few years.There are certain basic things that must be emphasised. No European defence or military policy has been adopted as part of the Amsterdam treaty. There is no provision for a European army and no provision for European military service. We are nowhere near any of that, because of the treaty. What the treaty does is take the European Union towards the progressive creation of a common defence policy that covers humanitarian and rescue tasks, peacekeeping and the use of combat forces in crisis management, while leaving NATO as the major player in European defence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 232033,
      "EditedText": "What about the trade-off on qualified majority voting? That can often mean a big difference to a small state."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 232027,
      "EditedText": "I echo the convener's welcome for that comprehensive presentation.There are major challenges ahead for Europe, first in relation to the common foreign and security policy, which will have to be addressed, and, secondly, on the structural and institutional questions that will arise as a result of enlargement. Considering enlargement as an opportunity as well as a threat will also be a challenge. As well as the changes in structural funding that will be required as a result of enlargement, there are 100 million consumers out there and there is much work that we could do to try to gear Scotland up to grasp that market as an opportunity.We have had the opening up and liberalisation of markets, but social change has been a bit slower. We still have some way to go on that front. That is disappointing and I hope that there will be some movement on it during the next few years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dermot Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 232029,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that it will be revisited next year in the light of the experience with Europol. However, it is early days for Europol, which is just getting going. The treaty of Amsterdam allows for a certain amount of executive work by Europol officers, but Europol is not a free-standing police service. It is mainly a co-operative venture. Policemen and women are assigned from national police forces to co-operate and share information in The Hague. I would be happy to look at the definitions in the treaty afterwards, but I do not want to do that now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Holt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 232039,
      "EditedText": "People would not want to erect too many of those barriers. I do not link the tremendous self-sufficiency of the European economy with barriers to the rest of the world."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dermot Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 232040,
      "EditedText": "The next World Trade Organisation round will decrease barriers. There will be intense pressure on Europe to decrease even its agriculture barriers. The trend is entirely in the direction of decreasing barriers. If Europe is a strong and integrated player it will be better able to help to regulate, and create balance in, the world economy. It has been the big countries such as the United States that have been able to rescue Mexico and Brazil; if the EU becomes a player of that sort, it may be able to help to regulate the world economy in such a way. That should not be confused with the idea of the EU being fortress Europe, as that idea is dead in the brains of most of the people who make the decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 232041,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much for the presentation. You talked about the rights of EU citizens. What about the rights of citizens in areas that are not covered by EU treaty, such as defence? You talked about the equality of men and women in the EU, but I know of a number of cases in which women are in court on defence matters because their rights do not seem to be protected as defence is not under EU judicial control. Are there moves towards overlapping, even though defence does not come into that realm?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 232045,
      "EditedText": "Why does the EU feel that it needs to develop a common defence policy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dermot Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 232046,
      "EditedText": "The EU does not yet say that. The treaty says that it may progressively lead to the development of a common defence policy. There are various stages: we now have a common foreign and security policy, which may lead in time to a common defence policy, which may lead to a common defence. The treaty leaves doors open.The neutrals have opposed movement because they do not want to be drawn into a mutual defence guarantee, and the NATO enthusiasts have opposed movement because they do not want NATO watered down or rivalled by anything European. Those two tendencies have been sufficient to brake the process. It will be interesting to see at next year's inter-governmental conference whether both sides have moderated their convictions, as there is movement in the neutral countries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Holt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 232048,
      "EditedText": "The most obvious implication is in the area of structural policy and funds and in the implementation of the new package. For all the fine words that can be said about employment and job creation and so on, jobs are created at local level. An important role for the committee will be to participate in the success of those programmes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 232051,
      "EditedText": "I want to follow on from Elizabeth Holt's comments. I refer to the section on creating jobs in the yellow leaflet, \"10 Points about the Treaty on European Union\", which talks about building on best practice for job creation and about pilot projects. Is that initiative still in the pipeline, or has it started? Which monitoring procedures will be involved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Holt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 232052,
      "EditedText": "Essentially, the yellow leaflet talks about the new provisions on employment laid down by the treaty of Amsterdam. As I suggested, in only two years, an enormous amount has been done in that area. In terms of exchanging best practice, each year, member states have submitted national action plans that have been scrutinised by the Commission, which reports to the European Council. All the member states have been able to examine the labour market policies of the others and to say where they are right or wrong. There has been substantial development from a low-key beginning. Although it began as a pilot project, it is now part of a mainstream European activity in support of employment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Holt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 232054,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is one model that everyone should follow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 232055,
      "EditedText": "No, I just want to know where we can find out more about that, to get an overall picture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Holt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 232059,
      "EditedText": "Year on year, the member states agree certain priorities for their labour market policies. One of the four priorities on which they agree is equal opportunities for men and women. In the past, that influenced matters such as European social fund regulations, but it is now an absolute priority for labour market policy. When, at each December European Council, the direction and performance of the European employment strategy is assessed, specific attention is paid to the pay gap between men and women and to whether women are moving into the kind of jobs from which they were previously excluded. That has a great deal to do with the labour market, but is also connected with other areas of women's rights such as sexual harassment.Equality of opportunity for men and women was written into the Treaty of Rome, right at the beginning. It has always been a principle of the European Community. For a while member states did not do very much to realise it, but that has changed. The issue has now moved to the forefront of European Union activity, if only because it has now been recognised that equality between men and women is not simply a matter of social justice, but makes 100 per cent economic and business sense. Equality is necessary for a successful European economy. That is why it is now an important issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 232065,
      "EditedText": "For future meetings, it might be helpful, for ease of access, to include page numbers as well as reference numbers on the sift/scrutiny recommendation note.I begin with document 295. The recommendation is that we should await the explanatory memorandum and consider the document at our next meeting. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 232066,
      "EditedText": "Do we agree to do the same with document 298?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 232069,
      "EditedText": "For document 310, the recommendation is to await the memorandum and consider the document at our next meeting. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 232070,
      "EditedText": "For documents 311, 312, 313, 314, 315 and 316, the recommendation is no further action. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 232074,
      "EditedText": "Item 325 concerns fisheries management and nature conservation in the marine environment. Should we recommend that it be referred to the Rural Affairs Committee for scrutiny?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 232082,
      "EditedText": "I will not say much, as I am conscious of the limited time that is available. As the convener says, the clerks have set out a number of options for the committee, and we can help members to contact external groups to canvass opinion. We would welcome feedback on those options, so that we can develop a work programme. Having spoken to members before the meeting, I know that many people are keen to debate the wider issues as well as scrutinising legislation and holding the Executive to account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 232083,
      "EditedText": "As Dermot Scott and Elizabeth Holt have made presentations, I ought to mention that we have the opportunity to work in partnership with the Commission and with the European Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 232085,
      "EditedText": "I would not want to encourage that as the norm, but there are times when there would be a place for that, as it would allow participating organisations to speak in a more relaxed manner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 232086,
      "EditedText": "We should consider how to communicate with young people, as that is a target group that we should approach. Young people are into new technology, so we should examine more carefully whether there is a way to put questions on the internet for young people, to involve them in this exercise. On the mailshot, why is Aberdeen University left off the academia list? A great deal of work is done on the European Union in the politics department at Aberdeen; Professor Trevor Salmon has produced work on European issues.Although we have included the European Parliament and the European Commission in the list of general institutions because they have representative offices in Scotland, it is worth noting that—perhaps through the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities—the Committee of the Regions is an institution with which we should communicate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 232089,
      "EditedText": "We will come back to that. We must consider a number of options. It will be useful to consider where the seminar fits into the process. We have had informal discussions with Liz and Dermot about others who might be able to support the process. I am keen that that complements our original discussions. We can bring ideas for the seminar to another meeting. I would like to examine how members of the committee can be more involved in the consultation process. The process should not be about everybody coming to us or our going to everybody. If we can agree a range of issues and identify interested organisations, we should divide up responsibilities and create a system of rapporteurs, so that one member of the committee can take the lead on an issue, carry out the investigation and come back with a report, for the committee to amend, reject or accept."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 232091,
      "EditedText": "We can also use the education facility in the Parliament and its links with the wider community, both with formal organisations and informally. I am aware that a range of organisations has not been included, and we need to firm that up. The voluntary sector, through the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, is the most obvious example, but a number of other organisations have not been included. I would like to take it from this discussion that we agree the principle of trying to engage with organisations in whatever way we can, and that we use the options listed as part of the way in which we do that. The list is not exhaustive—if other suggestions come to mind, we can add to it. I would like to come back to an early meeting with a suggested programme of activities, so that we can examine the issues that the committee should address. Then we can start to divide up the work load and start the process of appointing rapporteurs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 232094,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we consider holding one or more informal briefings. I will ask the clerk to identify the most relevant issue and to make appropriate arrangements. My second suggestion is that members should feed back their ideas through the clerk on the general options for consultation, as well as their suggestions—perhaps as a list, but not an exhaustive one—of issues that the committee should consider. That would allow us to decide our priorities collectively. Once we have had an informal discussion, we can start to divide the priorities and allocate the work accordingly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 232099,
      "EditedText": "I return to the points that Margo and Allan raised. We need an early and thorough discussion, with some brainstorming, to consider the issues that we should address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 232103,
      "EditedText": "We know what we are doing, then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 232104,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to the consideration of the subordinate legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 232106,
      "EditedText": "I wish to clarify some things, Stephen. If a member of this or any other committee wishes to object to an SSI, can that member attend the lead committee and lodge a motion to object to it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 232108,
      "EditedText": "What strikes me as being slightly absurd is that, if any member, representing this committee, can lodge a motion, attend the lead committee and object, why bother bringing the matter to this committee in the first place?Am I right in saying that this committee could not object? The relevant briefing paper mentions \"affirmative or negative procedure\", but, from what I took you to say, Stephen, it is not for this committee to make a decision, other than to send someone along to the lead committee to object."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 232109,
      "EditedText": "Is it possible to amend the standing orders so that the European Committee could give its view if it was so minded? There will probably be very few occasions when that would apply, but our view would be required to be heard—only our view, which cannot be bound. I also thought, \"Why bother?\" because we have no more standing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 232112,
      "EditedText": "No. The SSI is submitted today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 232115,
      "EditedText": "An issue that was raised in another subject committee is the nature of the supporting explanatory documentation that committees receive on any SSI. It was felt that the Scottish Executive could supply a very short overview of the contents of the SSI to allow committee members to understand the legislation.We are tied to chapter 10 of the standing orders, which says that any member can lodge a motion. However, what might work is for a committee member—the convener or otherwise—to object on behalf of the committee. The committee might want to raise the matter with the Procedures Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 232121,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful if you could come back to us on that. I am interested only in simplicity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 232125,
      "EditedText": "Do you not look at SSIs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 232127,
      "EditedText": "Thanks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 232130,
      "EditedText": "That is a very sensible suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 232136,
      "EditedText": "Why not ask it not only for a written paper but for someone speak to that at the next meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 232138,
      "EditedText": "Someone in your party does not seem to like you—they put you on to two committees that have got to look at SSIs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 232140,
      "EditedText": "You will be an expert by the time this finishes. The difficulty is this: while we struggle to understand the process, what do we do about the statutory instruments that are before us? None of the general headings look as though they are of such significance that we would want to impede the legal process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 232141,
      "EditedText": "I have gone through all of them except No 1, which I am afraid I could not get through. A lot of them, such as the one on spreadable fats, are technical. They say things such as margarine has to be over 80 per cent fat, otherwise it is not margarine. I could find no objection to that, but there has been little consultation on forestry. I have made efforts to find out people's views because the SSIs deal with impact assessment. The forestry SSI, 1999/43, and the town and country planning SSI, 1999/1 should be delayed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 232142,
      "EditedText": "Allan has made the point that they are already in force. What would be the implication of doing some of the things that have been suggested?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 232152,
      "EditedText": "It is a Byzantine system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 232159,
      "EditedText": "It is not my place to comment on what would happen. If the Parliament chose to annul an SSI, in certain cases, the Executive would want to review the Parliament's difficulty with the SSI and consider whether to redraft it and send it back to the Parliament for reconsideration. Annulling an SSI would mean that that order would not become part of statute law."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 232165,
      "EditedText": "We nominate Bruce to go to the lead committee with an appropriate motion in the six cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 232168,
      "EditedText": "We should let them go through the due process on the basis that the lead committee will consider the matter, particularly in relation to forestry. I do not think that we will hold them up to make any meaningful comment today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 232170,
      "EditedText": "We will do whatever is required. We will have another discussion on the process, which is unacceptable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 232171,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that, for the record, I must state that I was only joking earlier?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ID": 5984,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 232178,
      "EditedText": "The Executive informed me that it would try to get that paper to us by this meeting, but that it would require ministerial clearance because, in its opinion, it contained a number of important issues. I had not received the paper by the time of this meeting, but as soon as I do I will circulate it to all committee members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5984,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 232183,
      "EditedText": "I have discussed with Stephen the possibility of having an early meeting, but by the time the documents are cleared by the minister, members will have only one or two days in which to consider detailed and important documents. That is our dilemma. Either we go for an early meeting, which will not give us sufficient time to absorb and scrutinise the documents, or we return during the recess, which might be inconvenient. The other possibility is to meet on that Friday.We need time to consider the documents if we are to do them justice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ID": 5984,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 232184,
      "EditedText": "When is the earliest that members could expect to receive the documents?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 232185,
      "EditedText": "The earliest I expect to receive the documents is 4 October. The final document on the special programme would be completed on the evening of the previous Friday and given to the minister over the weekend. Assuming that the minister signed it off on Monday, we would receive the document late on Monday afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5984,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 232186,
      "EditedText": "Would it be possible to schedule an extra meeting that week, perhaps on Thursday lunchtime, or at 5 pm?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
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      "ID": 5984,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 232187,
      "EditedText": "We have to assume that the minister will sign off the documents on the Monday, so that members will have at least two to three days to consider them. If we hold a meeting on the Thursday, we are constrained by parliamentary business. I do not know what members' business or other business is scheduled—that is a matter for the Parliamentary Bureau. We might be able to hold a meeting at 5 pm, but it might need to be at 5.30 pm or even at 6 pm, depending on other business. Friday is a possibility, but we shall come up against other problems thereafter.Would members prefer to meet at the end of that week or later?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 232192,
      "EditedText": "Yes, several things are already arranged for that week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 232194,
      "EditedText": "Will the committee allow me to take soundings from the minister about when we are likely to receive the documents, so that we can schedule a meeting at an appropriate time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232196",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 232196,
      "EditedText": "We already have the objective 3 document. Would members like that to be circulated now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 232197,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5978,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Hugh Henry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 232017,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I have apologies from Tavish Scott."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Holt (European Commission): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 232022,
      "EditedText": "Now we get to the Amsterdam treaty, five years on from Maastricht, when the member states revised the Treaty on European Union. They tried to progress on the existing treaty by revising it. The trick of understanding the Amsterdam treaty is not to try to understand everything about it, because it is a huge, sprawling, complex—almost organic—symbol of how Europe is developing. Certain key areas represent the important parts of the treaty. Dermot and I will go through the four main areas today.What is the scope of the Amsterdam treaty? Central to the treaty is the idea that the European Union should have the interests of the people of Europe at heart. The difficulties experienced by certain member states, particularly Denmark, but also France, the United Kingdom and others, in ratifying the Maastricht treaty—the delays and the evident reluctance to move too fast—quickly concentrated the minds of Europe's political leaders on a single conclusion: that the European Union must be made more accountable and relevant to ordinary people than it had been hitherto.The Amsterdam treaty is, therefore, very much about the people of Europe and their most immediate concerns: their jobs, their way of life and their rights as individual citizens. We will show how the Amsterdam treaty puts the fight against unemployment at the top of the European agenda, how it seeks to extend the rights of individuals in the member states, and how it reinforces—clarifies absolutely—the principle that European Union decisions should always be made at the lowest appropriate level, so that things are done that make the actions of the European Union more open, more accessible and better understood.The second major issue dealt with by the Amsterdam treaty is the building of a safer and more just EU, in which, as is right in a union, there are no internal frontiers. Dermot will handle that issue. He will talk about how the Amsterdam treaty is intended to make the European Union a place in which its citizens can move around more freely than ever before, but at the same time a place that is secure and where the power of law and order is assured, despite the openness and freedom.The treaty brings significant parts of the so-called third pillar, which Dermot has already mentioned—justice and home affairs—under the Community umbrella. The importance of that should not be underestimated. It is clear that for European Union citizens the things that count are security, effective Community action and networking and co-operation among Europe's police forces.In the early years of the Common Market, the right to live and work in other European Union member states was limited to those in paid employment, but since 1993 any European who wants to can exercise that right: students, the self-employed, tourists, pensioners, and so on. In practice, however, it is true that we have not yet achieved full freedom of movement for people. That is partly because member states are reluctant to give up passport checks at their borders until they can be sure that there are common standards on immigration and asylum seekers and that effective controls on international criminals are in place at the external borders of the European Union. The EU island nations—Ireland and the UK—are particularly sensitive about that.The third big issue in the treaty of Amsterdam is the idea of a stronger Europe in the world. We will briefly examine the way in which the Amsterdam treaty attempts to carve out a stronger, but appropriate, world role for the European Union by moving towards an effective and coherent external policy. As Dermot has already suggested, foreign policy is one of the most delicate areas for the European Union and one in which activity is essentially intergovernmental. Kosovo, the Union's most public post-Maastricht foray into foreign policy, was widely considered to have been a failure. In spite of the good work done since, it was difficult to shake off the feeling that the European Union's foreign policy provision did not fit Europe's circumstances at the end of the 20th century. A careful balance has to be struck between the development of common EU action on security and defence and respect for national traditions of neutrality.The fourth area that we want to talk about today is a wider European Union—the idea of enlarging the European Union to include new members. However, it must remain a Europe that works and can function. The sort of structures that were put in place were ideal for a group of six member states, but not, arguably, for 15, and certainly not for 20 or more. We want to talk about how the treaty has addressed the way in which the European Union is moving towards taking in new member states while embarking on the reform of its own institutions to keep them effective and democratic.I have elected to talk about social policy as that is my main background in the Commission. For 18 years, I have been an official working in the Directorate-General V, Employment, Industrial Relations and Social Affairs, in Brussels. I have worked as a desk officer and as an individual official on a wide range of social policies, so it is appropriate that I talk about them. Arguably, employment and social affairs are the best thing about the treaty of Amsterdam. They are the area in which there was greatest progress in the negotiations, and that is perhaps the part of the treaty of which many people in Brussels are most proud. They feel that they did well in the treaty of Amsterdam.Employment is obviously a central issue in anyone's thinking, and the treaty of Amsterdam introduced a new employment chapter that has put employment and job creation at the heart of the process of European integration. It is perhaps the single most positive outcome of the treaty and has been steadily built on since 1997, when the treaty was agreed between the member states. European leaders have recognised that stability and growth policies—the economic progress made by the European Union—had to be matched by a stronger commitment to employment at a European level.The treaty made employment a matter of common European concern. In other words, solving European labour market problems would not be done by individual European Union member states, but by member states co-operating to address those problems—at the European and the national level—in a co-ordinated way. That important provision has been the mechanism that has, since 1997, seen the development of what is called the European employment strategy. It came into effect immediately, at the explicit wish of member state governments. In other words, the Commission did not have to wait until the ratification of the treaty in all the member states to begin working on the strategy. Member states agreed that we could begin to pull it together straight away.The strategy has proved extremely effective; it is already producing results. It is based on common commitments and targets, not unlike those that have been so successful in European monetary union. We hope that, when applied to the job market, those common commitments and targets will lead to better employment performance, greater emphasis on employability, the building of a stronger spirit of entrepreneurship in European economies, much greater adaptability for both workers and firms in the labour market, and a considerable emphasis on equal opportunities between men and women.An enormous amount has been achieved since 1997. The European employment strategy is now in its third year, and has been publicly endorsed by the G7 summit in its scrutiny of the direction of the European economy. A few days ago, the Commission officially proposed its new guidelines for member state employment policy for 2000. For the first time under the new employment strategy, it has proposed to the Council of Ministers ways in which individual member states can improve their labour market performance. Peer review is an important part of the employment strategy.The treaty of Amsterdam also gave the European Union something very important in terms of wider social policy: a single legal framework for agreeing social policy. In other words, Amsterdam integrated what is known as the social chapter into the body of the Treaty on European Union and ended the UK opt-out.I was working in Brussels on social policy during the 1990s and it was not easy to deal with the European Union, with 14 member states implementing some European social policies and 15 member states implementing certain others. There was a fragmented approach to social policy, which did not make a lot of sense. Although member states all have their own approach, they also have an enormous amount in common in how they deal with social policy. The achievement of the treaty of Amsterdam is therefore important; European social policy making is now done by all the 15 member states, and that can only be a good thing.One result of that change, and it is something that is considered especially important in the Commission, has been to bring the so-called social partners—the employers and trade unions—on board as major players in social policy making at European level.The treaty contains a provision on people's fundamental rights and an article on anti-discrimination. Article 13 of the Amsterdam treaty gives the European Union the capacity to lead the fight in member states against any form of discrimination, defined in broad terms, whether on the basis of sex, racial or ethnic origin, religion or belief, disability, age, or sexual orientation.The treaty emphasises gender equality and the achievement of real equality between women and men—something for which a great deal of work has been done at European level for many years, but where final success still eludes us. Article 2 of the treaty of Amsterdam now makes equality of opportunity between men and women one of the main objectives of the European Union."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232030",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 232030,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the underlying philosophy of enlargement and the possible stand-off between enlargement and deeper democratisation of the institutions of the EU. Liz and Dermot touched on big countries' rights. Coming from a small country, which I hope in the not too distant future will have the same legal and political rights as others around the European table, I am not altogether thrilled with anything that will protect the rights of the big countries. I am much more concerned about the smaller and peripheral countries. My theory is that unless the national differences in an enlarged EU are recognised, the smaller and peripheral countries are unlikely to co-operate in the sort of social development that Irene wants. There is a great danger that the arrogance of the big states will cause the EU to implode. I would be interested to hear your comments on that."
    },
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      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 232028,
      "EditedText": "In the presentation, you talked about the dichotomy at the heart of the treaty: promoting greater freedom of movement while responding to a popular demand to combat crime internationally. You mentioned the Schengen agreement and the fact that a pan-European police force modelled on the Federal Bureau of Investigation had not been agreed on. It was not clear to me whether that could subsequently—perhaps five years down the line—be subject to a qualified majority vote, as will visa policy, residence permits and asylum procedures. Will the subject be revisited?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 232036,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in the fact that 92 per cent of the European Community's gross domestic product comes from within its own boundaries and the difficulties that that may lead to the in the longer term. It might isolate the European Community from the vagrancies of world market fluctuations and create more stability. Does helping the Russians and Brazilians to restructure their economies really assist the Community? Obviously conflicts can arise from the impact of various trade wars with the US—for example the banana wars that happened over cashmere and which were discussed through the World Trade Organisation—and those may begin to grow. I worry that not being able to expand and enlarge further will create greater difficulties for our influence, not just the EC's influence but Scotland's influence, in other parts of the world economy. Maybe that is a bit rambling but I think I know what I mean."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Holt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 232037,
      "EditedText": "The fact that the European economy is as self-sufficient as it is is not anything other than a strength. We are considering 92 per cent of an extraordinarily rich block. It means that the European Union is not dependent on other parts of the world for the success of its society and economy. It is not a zero-sum gain. Only 8 per cent of the European economy is trade with the rest of the world, but that may change. What we have is really the creation of a single European economy. We do not yet have a single currency—we are moving towards that—but the European economy is undoubtedly a strength not a weakness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 232038,
      "EditedText": "I agree that it is an internal strength; it might help us in terms of how we operate within the European Community. I wonder about the impact that it has on other world players outwith the European Community. In the longer term, barriers might build up between Europe and the rest of the world and lead to trade barriers that can spin off into other types of conflicts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dermot Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 232044,
      "EditedText": "Yes, except that the Amsterdam treaty brings the European convention on human rights into the text of a treaty for the first time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 232047,
      "EditedText": "I will draw that part of the discussion to a close, as I am aware of the time.You talked about decision making being brought closer to the average citizen and about decisions being made at the lowest possible level. In the papers that accompany your presentation you talk about a safer, more just European Union, about employment, and about the rights of the citizen. Given our relationship with Europe—as members of the European Committee of a Scottish Parliament that is still part of the UK—what are the most significant implications of the Amsterdam treaty for this Parliament and for the work of this committee over the next couple of years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 232053,
      "EditedText": "I wondered whether there had been research in order to identify good models. Which key issues arose from that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elizabeth Holt: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 232056,
      "EditedText": "I can give you a lot more information on the development of employment policy, but we are talking about large documents. I should be happy to talk to you about European employment, bilaterally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 232058,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in equal opportunities and improving social rights. Will you outline the positive action opportunities to redress some of the gender imbalances, particularly in employment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 232062,
      "EditedText": "I checked the process with Stephen Imrie yesterday, and I want to ensure that everyone else is aware of this. As well as the recommendations for action, we received packs about the various Commission documents that we are to consider. I presume that the European memorandums and the Scottish European briefs, as well as the papers from the Commission, will be available before we discuss the matters in question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 232067,
      "EditedText": "For document 305, the recommendation is no further action. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 232071,
      "EditedText": "For document 317, the recommendation is to await the memorandum and consider the document at our next meeting. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 232072,
      "EditedText": "For document 318, on the Montreal Protocol and substances that deplete the ozone layer, the recommendation is no further action, but to send a copy to the Transport and the Environment Committee for its interest. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 232075,
      "EditedText": "The clerk to the House of Commons European Scrutiny Committee sent me a letter saying that the first meeting at which the matter would be considered was on 27 October. There is therefore time for the regular scrutiny process to take place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 232076,
      "EditedText": "Why is it that item 325 is being sent to the Rural Affairs Committee for scrutiny, but item 318—on chlorofluorocarbons and ozone depletion—is being sent to the Transport and the Environment Committee for interest only?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 232077,
      "EditedText": "Item 318 contains nothing that relates specifically to the remit of this committee in terms of European legislation. However, the Transport and the Environment Committee might have a wider interest because of the issue of ozone depletion.On fisheries management, however, part of the scrutiny process is to refer the matter to the Rural Affairs Committee. That committee will comment and report back to us and we will then add our comments before it goes further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 232088,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I missed it, but were any details of the seminar announced, such as the location?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 232090,
      "EditedText": "Can we choose the people we meet?To link with Irene's comments on younger people, if we are going for an educative process as well as an information exchange, perhaps we should think in terms of the educational structures that are in place already. We could approach the Scottish Parent Teacher Council first, to say that we would like to discuss education in the European structures and policy-making processes. We should try to build that up rather than go to well-trodden establishment organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 232093,
      "EditedText": "We should start with the process that Allan was talking about—that is where I would be happiest to start. It would help us to decide whom we should see if we were to begin with informal and genuine briefings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 232096,
      "EditedText": "It would be difficult for us to try to engage individually with the 32 councils, as they all have a different perspective and different needs. Local government has a well-organised structure through COSLA, of which some of the members of the committee have had direct experience. COSLA has a number of European officers, a members network and an officers network, which, frankly, is probably as influential on European issues as any body in Scotland. I certainly want COSLA to be involved in the informal briefing, because—and you are right, David—we have a lot to learn from it. However, I would approach councils that way, rather than individually."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 232097,
      "EditedText": "Does not the same apply to academia? It would be difficult for us to engage with individual institutions. We should engage with the Committee of Scottish Higher Education Principals as a representative of all higher education institutions, as opposed to adding to the list of eight institutions that we already have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 232101,
      "EditedText": "We will take that paper as a starting point, ask for members' views on the process and the issues, and organise an early briefing session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 232105,
      "EditedText": "If the committee agrees, it might be useful if I spent a couple of minutes running through the procedure for Scottish statutory instruments and how it impacts on the committee, because I appreciate that it is fairly new for most members; it certainly was new for the clerks. We have gone up a learning curve with regard to how the committee might deal with SSIs. If I go over the process, it will help the discussion.Rule 6.8.1 of the standing orders states that the European Committee must consider and report on\"(b) the implementation of European Communities legislation\".In practice, that means that the committee must consider and report on Scottish statutory instruments. The procedures of the Parliament have been elaborated during the past few weeks. In most cases, the European Committee will not be nominated as the lead committee for SSIs because the objective of parliamentary procedure is to scrutinise the policy content, which is a subject committee function, or the legal content, which falls within the remit of the Subordinate Legislation Committee.Your task is broadly to consider whether a particular SSI is the appropriate method for the Scottish Executive to employ to implement EC legislation in a given area. In practice, the European Committee will report its views to the nominated lead committee, which is decided by the Parliament on a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau.The timetable for that process, in particular for the end date, is set by the SSI in question. The end point is the date by which the Parliament as a whole must either approve or annul the SSI. Usually, the end date is 40 days after the document has been received formally by the Parliament, but it can be shorter than that. Our committee has to work to a tighter time scale—before the fixed end point—because we report to lead committees; lead committees then report to the whole Parliament. It is my considered opinion—it is only an opinion of the clerk and it is up to the committee to attach whatever weight it judges appropriate to it—that this committee may not have a substantial amount to say about any particular SSI. Procedures in the Parliament are such that the subject matter is dealt with by the lead committee and the legal matter is dealt with by the Subordinate Legislation Committee. We have a particular role. However, if this committee, in looking through SSIs, wishes to object, because it thinks that an SSI is the wrong way for the Executive to implement EC legislation in Scotland, the procedure would be for an individual member of this committee to lodge a motion in the chamber office objecting to the SSI. That would then be addressed to the lead committee. The member of the European Committee who lodged the motion would have to attend the lead committee and speak to the motion. The decision would be taken by the lead committee. The best procedure for us would be to come to agreement on all the SSIs, whether committee members wish to object or not. If we object, a member should be nominated to lodge a motion and attend the lead committee. I would like to stress the fact that no committee of the Parliament can amend SSIs—they involve yes-or-no questions. The Parliament either approves or annuls SSIs. We have six of them, I think, on our current agenda, and the consideration of subordinate legislation will be a regular function of the European Committee. We can expect to see similar volumes at every meeting. We are mandated by the standing orders to consider them, and the committee must determine the detail to which it wishes to do that and report on them. We are required to put each SSI on to our agenda formally, consider it and report on it to the nominated lead committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 232113,
      "EditedText": "I want to answer a couple of questions. We do not have the initial EC directive, but, if the committee wishes, I can attach the parent directive to the SSI."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 232114,
      "EditedText": "We would like the forestry committee to get that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 232119,
      "EditedText": "Can Stephen tell us a bit more about Ben's idea? I think that he has hit the nail on the head about the whole process.My Machiavellian mind makes me think that someone could create merry hell with this. Is a member entitled to object on a matter without the committee's authority? All of us could then lodge objections to SSIs, which would make it difficult for the process to work. If that is so, perhaps some of the procedures need to be re-examined.Where does it say that we cannot amend the SSIs or consider different wording if two committees decide that the wording is not right? It seems daft to throw the baby out with the bath water, when perhaps a small adjustment could secure the Parliament's unanimity. The whole matter seems a little arcane."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 232123,
      "EditedText": "What is the difference between our work and the work of the Subordinate Legislation Committee? I know that there is a European dimension to this, but is it not something that the Subordinate Legislation Committee could look at as well?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 232124,
      "EditedText": "I have the pleasure of being on the Subordinate Legislation Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 232126,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we look at SSIs, but only to determine whether they are technically valid; we do not comment on whether they are good or bad. This morning we referred one to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 232129,
      "EditedText": "I would like to sort out the practicalities of this. We had a similar discussion in the Transport and the Environment Committee, which may have been what Stephen was diplomatically referring to. This is the second time that this thick document in front of me has crossed my desk; last time I got to page 62, but I did not even attempt it again before this meeting. At the transport committee we suggested that, before a document went to the Subordinate Legislation Committee and then probably to two other committees, the Executive should be able to put information on one side of A4 paper, indicating what the document was about, what the impact would be and what the key issues were. All of us are going round in circles, and I do not think that that is an especially good use of our time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 232131,
      "EditedText": "It is far too sensible—that is the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 232135,
      "EditedText": "The easiest thing would be for me to speak to the legal office, to get a deeper understanding of our interpretation of standing orders. I would report back in a written paper about what the legal office is saying our committee's role has to be in this respect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 232137,
      "EditedText": "One of the things that we discussed today at the Subordinate Legislation Committee was the fact that, because SSIs are the only things on our exciting agenda, people have looked at them more than they might have in another committee. Therefore, if there are issues, they should be flagged up in the reference to the other committee, even if they were not the issues that we were supposed to be examining. One of the issues that is being flagged up is that someone in the Executive has formed the view that directives should be implemented in Scotland and England on the same day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 232139,
      "EditedText": "Amazingly, I asked to be on this committee, and my penance for achieving that was to serve on the Subordinate Legislation Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 232143,
      "EditedText": "The forestry one is not in force."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 232144,
      "EditedText": "There is still time to look at the spreadable fats SSI."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 232145,
      "EditedText": "We have plenty of time for the fats one, if I remember."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 232146,
      "EditedText": "I understand that all these SSIs are negative instruments, in the sense that they will come into or remain in force unless the Parliament chooses to annul them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 232149,
      "EditedText": "Annul."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 232151,
      "EditedText": "The lead committee would report to Parliament, not to our committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 232155,
      "EditedText": "Clearly, we need a paper and someone to speak to. We need a review of the process, which seems absurd. In the meantime, I would not want the committee to prejudice the Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999. What should we do with the SSIs? If we do nothing, what effect will that have? Will anybody notice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 232156,
      "EditedText": "That was my basic question. What if we say that we are annulling the lot of them and going for a cup of tea? What would happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 232157,
      "EditedText": "Could not we note them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 232158,
      "EditedText": "What would happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 232160,
      "EditedText": "The report will go to the Transport and the Environment Committee, which I hope will pick up any issues of concern. The other SSIs do not seem to be controversial and I suggest that we agree them as part of our process on the understanding that, for any future scrutiny and consideration, we want someone to explain to us exactly how that process works. Frankly, doing it this way demeans the whole process. Perhaps I am missing something, but I cannot see the point of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 232162,
      "EditedText": "Stephen advises me that all we are being asked to do is to comment on the SSIs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 232167,
      "EditedText": "Stephen is panicking because that will be on the record. We were being facetious. I am in your hands. What does the committee want to do with the SSIs, given that we have been asked merely to comment on them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 232172,
      "EditedText": "If you turn up at six committee meetings to lodge a motion, we will know that you were not. The matter must be referred to the conveners liaison group. From comments that were made earlier, it is clear that ours is not the only committee that is struggling to understand the relevance of some of the procedures. The conveners need to examine that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 232177,
      "EditedText": "I received a letter from Stephen Imrie—presumably as did the other members—saying that a paper on the financing of objective 2 regions was to follow. I have not received that paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232179",
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    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 232179,
      "EditedText": "Before I close the meeting, I would like to point out that there will be some problems with the timing of our meetings over the next few weeks because of some of the deadlines that we have to meet. At the moment, I am not sure what will be happening during October. Stephen, could you identify some of the potential problems for us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232193",
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      "ID": 129
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 232193,
      "EditedText": "I would rule out the week after if there is to be a constraint because of the late arrival of the documents."
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  {
    "ID": "C232195",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232198",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 232198,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for attending today's meeting."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C232199",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:04."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232035",
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      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
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      "ContributionID": 232035,
      "EditedText": "I want it for the areas that matter."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C232021",
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    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 129
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dermot Scott (European Parliament): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 232021,
      "EditedText": "Convener, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your invitation. Liz Holt and I are delighted to respond to your invitation for an informal briefing on the Amsterdam treaty. I tried to think of something amusing to say about the Amsterdam treaty but have not yet found it. The treaty is a bit like the book of Deuteronomy: we all know that it is there; very few people have read it from end to end; some bits of it are probably controversial nowadays; and few people are expert on it.Committee members have already received a lengthy document on the Amsterdam treaty prepared by Sue Morris of the Scottish Parliament Information Centre. We will not be revisiting the treaty at such length, but will instead give a useful overview of its contents. Several committee members—such as yourself, convener—have experience and are knowledgeable in this area. Liz Holt and I will split the presentation between us: I will set the scene and Liz will outline the treaty's content.In the mid-1980s, Europe was gripped by economic stagnation; the US and Japan were creating jobs while Europe was losing them. Since the oil crises of 1973 and 1979, Europe had been retreating into protectionism. Although tariff barriers had been removed, non-tariff barriers were being erected.There were strategic uncertainties at the highest level of the European Union due to various geopolitical factors, such as the rapid changeover of American presidents and their points of view on international politics; the invasion of Afghanistan; the crisis in Iran; the twin-track NATO deployment in Europe and the reaction of various European countries to that; and the star wars initiative.Such uncertainties led to the completion of the single market and the removal of non-tariff barriers that were now separating the European market into national markets. It was hoped that such measures would allow Europe to compete effectively with the large US and Japanese markets. However, 300 trade barriers that were covered by 300 directives had first to be removed. It was necessary to introduce voting to get the directives through the Council of Ministers, because the organisation had been stuck for years on the need for unanimity. A system called qualified majority voting is used to achieve agreement in the council on issues on which there is no unanimity and means that such issues can be agreed if there is a majority of about 71 per cent.However, qualified majority voting also means that the national Parliament's influence over each member state's minister in the Council of Ministers is reduced. The national Parliament has no real sanction, because, although the minister might have argued the Government's point of view in the council deliberations, he may have been outvoted. More voting means more democratic control at a European level through the European Parliament, which is what happened in the Single European Act of 1985. Because of strategic uncertainties, there was a small advance in the area of European political co-operation. Such co-operation had been going on informally since 1970, but it was now formalised within the treaty framework under the heading of common foreign and security policy.That situation lasted from 1985 to 1992, when the Maastricht treaty on European union was agreed. The treaty followed up the single act's largely successful idea of creating a single market by 1992 by suggesting the creation of a single currency. The proposal was well prepared by a committee of top-level central bankers which was chaired by Mr Delors and which reported in 1988 or 1989. Although the parameters for a single currency were laid down in the Maastricht treaty, the idea had been well researched in the Werner report in the early 1970s, through the snake mechanism and other attempts to co-ordinate the European monetary system and in the Delors report.However, while they were considering setting up an intergovernmental conference to bring about the single market, a political event upset the apple cart—the collapse of the Soviet Union. In May 1990, it was decided that there would not be one intergovernmental conference to reform the treaties to allow for the single currency, there would be two, with the other dealing with political co-operation and how to react to the collapse of the Soviet Union. The result was the introduction of economic and monetary union in the Maastricht treaty and advances in the common foreign and security policy. Those are the two pillars of the Maastricht treaty. I will come to the third one soon. The first pillar is the old treaties that go back to the 1950s and the second pillar is the structure that deals with common foreign and security policy.Within the first pillar, we get more qualified majority voting, because the Single European Act was seen to have been a success and the powers that were given to the European Parliament were also seen to have been successful. They had not caused, as some people had expected, a great delay in the legislative process. Therefore, in 1992 the Parliament was rewarded with co-decision, the equal right with the council to take decisions on a limited number of areas—15 areas were agreed in the Maastricht treaty. That changed the balance between the council and Parliament. The council knows that the Parliament may vote something down, so it behaves differently in the bargaining process. A lot of interesting work has been produced on that matter.The third pillar established by the Maastricht treaty is co-operation—which had again been going on informally—on matters such as visas, police and judicial co-operation and immigration. Co-operation in those matters is pillar 3. The difference is that in pillar 1 the community method is used: only the Commission can make a proposal and the council and the Parliament have defined powers in making the legislation. In pillars 2 and 3, it is more or less purely inter-governmental. The Commission may be associated with the work of common foreign and security policy and justice and home affairs, and the European Parliament may be consulted, but it does not have the role that it does in pillar 1. That is an important distinction to remember.The important point about Maastricht is that they came to agreement at 3 o'clock in the morning on 16 December 1992, when they were dead tired and they signed on the bottom line. They could not agree on some issues. They could not agree on extending qualified majority voting further on the extent to which the European Parliament should be given co-decision rights or on how far to go on reforming common foreign and security policy. They knew that events were dynamic in central and eastern Europe, so they would need to come back and review this in a few years time. They knew that the Western European Union treaty was expiring in 1998. There was disagreement on whether new areas, such as tourism, should be brought into the treaty. Therefore, they said, \"We will sign now and come back in 1996 to consider those matters again.\""
    },
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  {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dermot Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
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      "EditedText": "I have worked in a small member state for the past 20 years and I have watched Ireland approach the negotiations for the Single European Act, the Maastricht treaty and the Amsterdam treaty. The bottom line for the Irish Government has always been to hold on to the Commissioner. If there is a marginal variation in the strengths of voting in the Council, Ireland may have reservations about it, but it is not the bottom line. During the reflection group and the intergovernmental conference, the perceived threat was the body of opinion among member states that 20 Commissioners is too many, there is the risk of going to 25 or 30, so why not go back to a smaller number such as 10 or five? In other words, there was a move to break the link between a member state and a Commissioner and to choose 10 people from throughout Europe on their merit. The small member states were suspicious of that and wanted to hold on to their Commissioners. That was the principal issue."
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  {
    "ID": "C232034",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
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      "ID": 129
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dermot Scott: ",
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      "EditedText": "Ireland's view was that qualified majority voting was in general beneficial except in certain areas where it had objections. Everyone had objections to certain areas so we ended up not going with it at all. Everyone is in favour of extended qualified majority voting in all the areas that do not matter to them."
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  {
    "ID": "C232025",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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      "ID": 129
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dermot Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
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      "EditedText": "Finally, there are institutional questions. In brief, they are: improved access for the citizen, which underlies the whole strategy of the Amsterdam treaty in its efforts—after the bad experience of Maastricht, and for other reasons—to make things more citizen-friendly; fundamental rights, which are written into the treaty for the first time; access to documents, which is now a legal right, also written in for the first time; and other things such as the rights of consumers to health and safety.The power of the European Parliament is slightly increased over that of the Commission in so far as it now has the right to vote in the president of the Commission—as happened with Mr Prodi—in addition to its right to vote for the investiture of the whole Commission, which is scheduled for tomorrow.The number of areas in which the European Parliament has co-decision rights has increased from 15 to 38, so we not only have agreement to the principle of the issue, which was important, but it has been greatly expanded. Such an increase would normally go hand in hand with an increase in the application of qualified majority voting in the Council but curiously, for reasons to do with the German Government, Mr Kohl was not able to countenance that at the last moment, so it did not go through.There was a failure to face up to the institutional dynamics of the necessities of enlargement, which have in effect been postponed for another day. There was no agreement on reforming the voting strengths on the Council of Ministers to reflect the fact that, in the event of a considerable enlargement of the union, the large countries could be outvoted by a large number of small countries, which would have a much smaller population.The decisions on the size of the Commission were sketched out but not decided and it was clear that a further intergovernmental conference was required. That has now been agreed and the conference will open next year. Those, in brief, are the institutional questions that are raised by the treaty of Amsterdam.I have put up a slide on impact. Members will be pleased to know that it is the penultimate slide; the last one shows three or four subjects for the next intergovernmental conference. Liz has discussed the increased rights for the citizen and the great strides that are being made on the employment package. The European Parliament welcomed both those areas but was very disappointed by the progress on the common foreign and security policy, particularly in view of the situation that is evolving in Europe and elsewhere. It was also disappointed that the preparation for enlargement had been postponed and will have to be returned to next year.I will move on to the last slide. An intergovernmental conference will open next year; it will probably be declared open at the Helsinki summit in December. The Finns are very keen on it. The conference will have to face institutional challenges. We wonder whether it will generalise qualified majority voting or extend it somewhat in view of the fact that we may have enlargement. It will consider whether there is any movement on the great questions of security and defence. Given the present crisis in Europe, the conference will also consider whether we need a refinement of the way in which the union deals with the third-pillar issues—population movement, immigration, refugees and visas—and whether more such issues will move into the decision-making structure of the main treaty."
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  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232026",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 129
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
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      "EditedText": "Thank you very much for that comprehensive overview of a major and significant treaty. You covered many different aspects and, although it is difficult to cover everything in such a short time, you have given us a good grasp. Does anyone have questions and comments?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C232042",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dermot Scott: ",
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      "ContributionID": 232042,
      "EditedText": "Defence matters have always been left out of EU treaties. If those people have a case in the courts, it will be based on the European convention on human rights and on the Council of Europe rather than on anything to do with the European Community legal system."
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      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 232043,
      "EditedText": "So, effectively, the rights of EU citizens apply only within the bounds of the EU treaties?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dermot Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 232049,
      "EditedText": "It occurs to me that the major significance of the Amsterdam treaty is not for the people of Scotland, but for the people of Europe. Europe is now more citizen-friendly. The European Union is increasingly concerned with issues such as unemployment; it is giving citizens more rights and is involved in difficult matters such as immigration, refugees and visas. The EU is concerned that it has failed to do things properly in Kosovo and would like to do things better. It is considering how to move forward in those areas. It would be of great benefit if the committee and the Parliament could communicate all that to the people of Scotland. The Amsterdam treaty will be of assistance in achieving a European Union that is more up to date and more user-friendly than before. Although the treaty is not specific to Scotland, it can be used in the Scottish environment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 232050,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone else want to comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 232057,
      "EditedText": "We are running out of time. Cathy has not yet asked a question and I want to draw the matter to a close."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Treaty of Amsterdam",
      "HeadingID": 5979,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5979,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 232060,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. That was interesting and helpful. Dermot and Liz are both based in Edinburgh, and I am sure that they will be more than happy to meet members of the committee—or, indeed, other members of the Parliament—formally or informally. If members want to follow up anything from this presentation, they should see Dermot and Liz at the end of the meeting and arrange something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 232061,
      "EditedText": "The next item on our agenda is the scrutiny of documents. A recommendation note has been circulated. I will go through the recommendations one by one, and if anyone wishes to change a recommendation or has a comment to make, they should let me know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 232063,
      "EditedText": "When a document looks to be of interest on first scrutiny, the recommendation note is deferred until we have received the explanatory memorandum from the relevant Whitehall department. The committee's policy seemed to be that it would not like to take a decision on a document until it had received both the EC document and any supporting memorandums. That is why recommendation has been deferred in some cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 232064,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 232068,
      "EditedText": "For documents 306, 307, 308 and 309, the recommendation is no further action. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 232073,
      "EditedText": "For items 319, 320, 321, 322, 323 and 324, the recommendation is no further action. Are we all agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 232078,
      "EditedText": "In the first case, the committee is simply making another committee aware of an issue. In the second, the committee is taking positive action in inviting another committee to scrutinise the documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 232079,
      "EditedText": "I understand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "European Documentation (Scrutiny)",
      "HeadingID": 5980,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ID": 5980,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 232080,
      "EditedText": "Item 326 concerns Community environmental law. Again, there will be no action, but the matter will be referred to the Transport and the Environment Committee.On item 327, there will be no further action. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 232081,
      "EditedText": "A document on developing a programme of consultation with external groups has been circulated. Over a number of meetings we have discussed the need to begin the process of consultation with groups throughout Scotland, to find out what their priorities are and how they want to engage in the European Union's activities in Scotland. We want to develop a longer-term work programme for the committee, to make inquiries and to appoint rapporteurs so that we can get more work done. I would like individual committee members to take on specific responsibilities, to meet representatives of different organisations and to report back to the committee. That should encourage important debate. Do you want to add anything, Stephen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 232084,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased that the options for consultation were described as not being mutually exclusive, because there is a role for each: the mailshot, briefing sessions and so-called \"meet the people\" events. The mailshot is an appropriate step to take as an early part of the consultative process. I will give a plug to briefing sessions. Margo and I attended such a briefing meeting as members of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning committee. I do not know whether Margo agrees, but I found it an illustrative exercise. Part of the process was informal; it was in camera. That allowed a full and frank exchange of views between the committee and the organisations that were briefing us. We should consider that option when we have presentations during a committee meeting. There is a case for informal briefings, to further the full and frank exchange that we all want."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 232087,
      "EditedText": "The list is not exhaustive. We can certainly add universities that are not on the academia list. We have noted the addition of the COR."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 232092,
      "EditedText": "I was beginning to get a bit anxious about that point, as I could immediately think of many organisations that we could all say we wished to meet, but what would be the rationale behind meeting them? With all due respect, a number of other organisations and institutions could undertake some of the educational work around European issues better than the Parliament and have more time to do that work. We need to be clear about what we want from the process, how that will inform the work of the committee and how we can feed that back into our work. I welcome the suggestion of focusing on the issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 232095,
      "EditedText": "We must undertake an information-gathering exercise to identify who is doing what. Until I saw the list, I did not know that all councils in Scotland have European officers, and I am not aware of the extent of the work that each council is doing in that area. Given the work that we are to do on funding, we should find out about the activity and involvement of councils in particular and about how we can work with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 232098,
      "EditedText": "That brings us back to the question of issues. It depends on what we want to do and where we are coming from. I know that some universities have done proactive work on Europe. Perhaps they are the universities that we should contact, but it depends on what we are looking to gain from the process. We should capitalise on the expertise that we have in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 232100,
      "EditedText": "The distinction between the what, in terms of the issues, and the who, in terms of who has the expertise in the area that we might want to draw on, is a good starting point. The yellow document from the Commission on the Amsterdam treaty is quite a concise statement and provides many important starting points, for example, the gender issues that Cathy raised, job creation and so on. We should study the document between now and the next meeting and tell Stephen what we feel are the critical issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Groups (Consultation)",
      "HeadingID": 5981,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ID": 5981,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 232102,
      "EditedText": "If we are using the yellow document as a starting point, some of the issues that were raised in the presentation become important. I have never set eyes on the national plan for the creation of jobs that was mentioned in the presentation. If we are to start from the perspective of the presentation, we need some scene setting so that I can understand where the heck we are going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 232107,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is the procedure: it has to be an individual member. We as a committee could come to a view and you, convener, could nominate a member."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 232110,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that our role as the European Committee is to have a view on whether the SSI is the right way of implementing the EU directive. That being so, are we not doing things back to front? We should get the final product. For example, on the Environmental Impact Assessment (Forestry) (Scotland) Regulations 1999, we are not the forestry experts; we should get the report back from the Rural Affairs Committee and the Subordinate Legislation Committee and read about what they think about it from the legal and rural affairs standpoints. We could then see from the overview—because we have the directive—whether the report is correct. At the moment, we get the SSI and the directive that spawned that SSI—I was hoping that we would get them together—but we are not experts on either. If it was the other way round, that would give the committee more purpose, and we could come to a proper conclusion about whether the SSI was the right way of implementing the directive. As the convener and Ms MacDonald have said, what is the point? We do not know about forestry, so we just say, \"Off we go to rural affairs.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 232111,
      "EditedText": "I am getting totally confused. Have we got the directive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 232116,
      "EditedText": "Even if a member objects, the power still lies with the lead committee. I can see the point of bringing the matter before the committee if we had some influence—where if we said no, that would be the end of it. However, I cannot see the point of a committee member objecting after our scrutiny when the final decision rests with the lead committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 232117,
      "EditedText": "I am not exactly sure what I am supposed to scrutinise in an SSI."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 232118,
      "EditedText": "Our specific role is to decide whether an SSI is the right way of implementing a directive. Decisions about the subject matter rest with the lead committee. The only way in which we can decide on the directive is through examining information from forestry and legal bods."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 232120,
      "EditedText": "May I advise you, Bruce, on your first point about any member attending the lead committee to object? Any member of this Parliament can take part—but not vote—in any committee meeting. I understand—although I will clarify this—that the taking of motions in the lead committee will follow the model of the Parliament. The Presiding Officer—and please correct me if I am wrong—can decide which motions to take. The parallel to that in the lead committee would be that the convener would decide which, if any, motions objecting to a particular SSI to take. There may not be a huge number of members objecting to an SSI; if there were, it would be for the convener to decide which motions to take.The motions would be motions to annul, so they would all be very similar if not identical; they would involve the committee calling on the Parliament not to approve a particular SSI. I do not have at my fingertips the legalese that says that we cannot amend SSIs but only approve or annul them. If you wish, Bruce, I will come back to you and the committee on that. In my briefing before this meeting from the legal office and the Subordinate Legislation Committee, it was made clear to me that it was a yes-no issue, not an amendment issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 232122,
      "EditedText": "I can see why it is a yes-no issue, because effectively the statutory instruments are already in force by the time they come to this committee. It is presumably meant as a constraint on the powers of the Executive that an individual committee with expertise in a particular field can annul a statutory instrument. It seems unlikely that that would happen in anything but the most extreme circumstances. I am with the convener: I think that a lot of this scrutiny would be counterproductive in terms of our time, given all the other things that we have to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 232128,
      "EditedText": "It was two years late in being implemented and the Executive felt that it had to be implemented immediately, without the proper 21 days' notice to the Parliament. The Subordinate Legislation Committee felt that that was inappropriate: given that the SSI was already so late, the requirement for 21 days' notice should not have been waived."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 232132,
      "EditedText": "Is that what the transport committee is asking for?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 232133,
      "EditedText": "We have asked the Executive for that and I suggest that we do the same here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 232134,
      "EditedText": "I think that we can endorse that. In the meantime, I wonder whether there is another avenue for looking at the process. I am still unclear about the point of some of this. How could we go about asking why it needs to be dealt with in this way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 232147,
      "EditedText": "They will come into force unless we say no. Let us just say yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 232148,
      "EditedText": "I have to use the language that I have been told to use by the legal office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 232150,
      "EditedText": "Could we ask the lead committee to check? Who would it get back to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C232153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 232153,
      "EditedText": "I had a note today to say that the forestry SSI would be discussed in the Transport and the Environment Committee, which is the lead committee. I was quite happy with getting the spreadable fats one out of the way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C232154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 232154,
      "EditedText": "Are we not in the wrong part of the chain? We should come back to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 232161,
      "EditedText": "It is probably taking the easy way out to say that we will just approve the SSIs, and I am worried about our role in the process. Something in one of those SSIs might prove to be horrendous. I do not want to be Pontius Pilate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C232163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 232163,
      "EditedText": "Even if one of us were to find something in an SSI to which we objected, we could lodge a motion objecting to it with the lead committee that was considering it. Any one of us could do that individually, or we could do it collectively as a committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 232164,
      "EditedText": "Let us just annul them anyway. That will test the system, and I bet that the procedures will be right the next time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 232166,
      "EditedText": "You are on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Subordinate Legislation",
      "HeadingID": 5982,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ID": 5982,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 232169,
      "EditedText": "Can we just note them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group",
      "HeadingID": 5983,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ID": 5983,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 232173,
      "EditedText": "The conveners group is asking for a change in the standing orders, so that the group has some locus in the eyes of the Parliament. We have also discussed such things as the timing of meetings, and whether they should clash with meetings of the Parliament. There is a problem in trying to cope with the amount of business that is beginning to develop, and we will have to comment on that.Other than the items that have been raised, which I will take back, is there anything else that members of the committee feel should be referred to the conveners group?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group",
      "HeadingID": 5983,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ID": 5983,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 232174,
      "EditedText": "I have a question about the conveners group finding itself a place in the standing orders, and its future relationship with the Parliamentary Bureau. How will that work? I can see potential conflict."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group",
      "HeadingID": 5983,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ID": 5983,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 232175,
      "EditedText": "There is a suggestion that someone would attend the Parliamentary Bureau meetings on behalf of the conveners group, although not necessarily with voting rights. One option is that it would be a Deputy Presiding Officer. The suggestion is not that the group would be formally incorporated into the Bureau. You are right that that would create other difficulties. The problem at the moment is that the standing orders do not allow for the existence of a conveners group. We all felt that if the Parliament and its committees were to have their due weight in relation to the Executive, that should be reflected in the standing orders. All the committees were anxious to maintain their independence and that of the Parliament from the Executive. We are also aware that procedural issues, such as the timing of meetings, should be discussed in a different forum. That is where things stand. If there is anything else, feel free to raise it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ID": 5984,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 232176,
      "EditedText": "Allan has already suggested an informal briefing. That should be our priority, but in the meantime is there anything else that members wish to have prepared?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ID": 5984,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 232180,
      "EditedText": "I can advise the committee that earlier in the week I was approached by the Scottish Executive development department to discuss two consultation documents that will be sent to the committee. The first is the document that the committee has already seen—the draft special programme for the Highlands and Islands. That will become a full programme which contains all the financial and priority elements that we thought were missing from the first draft. It will come to the committee for further consultation. The second document, which will be received on an identical time scale, is the Scottish operational programme for objective 3 expenditure under the new programme round for European structural funds. Broadly, that will cover employment, the labour market, social inclusion and equal opportunities. I am advised by the Executive that neither of those documents will be cleared by the minister before Monday 4 October. According to European structural fund regulations, the member state must report by 1 November. That means that we have between 4 October and 1 November to ensure that members' views are heard in time to get them incorporated in the documents and over to Brussels. We do not have a committee meeting scheduled until what would be the October recess—I think that 12 October is the date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C232181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ID": 5984,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 232181,
      "EditedText": "Is it not 5 October?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ID": 5984,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 232182,
      "EditedText": "We do not have a meeting on 5 October, because we follow a fortnightly pattern. The next meeting will be on 28 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C232188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ID": 5984,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 232188,
      "EditedText": "I would prefer the end of the week. Many members of the committee live in the west—would it be possible for us to meet in Glasgow on that occasion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ID": 5984,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 232189,
      "EditedText": "That would require permission and is not for us to decide.Is it agreed that I try to arrange a meeting for the end of the week? It depends on the day that the minister signs off the documents. I am not happy to hold a meeting when members have had only a couple of days to examine the documents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C232190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ID": 5984,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 232190,
      "EditedText": "The alternative is to meet on the Tuesday of the next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C232191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1332
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5984,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ID": 5984,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 232191,
      "EditedText": "The problem is that that is Scotland's week in Europe. I hope to be in Brussels in Scotland House."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1341313+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2132,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2132,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 104726,
      "EditedText": "You might tell me that we will discuss this later, but my second point of order refers back to the ruling that you made last week that the Minister for Children and Education could not be questioned directly on the teachers' pay negotiations. I do not intend to revisit that issue, as we came to a satisfactory conclusion on the matter, but I would like to raise a point about a connected matter that concerns the bill but is separate from the pay negotiations: the future of the Scottish Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff in School Education.The day after our meeting last week, the minister said in the chamber—the information was also included in a leaked document—that he was considering proposals to abolish the SJNC and that that would be done by means of an amendment to the improvement in Scottish education bill. The minister should have told us that he planned to make that announcement in the chamber as it would have been useful to have questioned the minister about the proposals. I suggest that he come back to the committee to allow us to pursue the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2132,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2132,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 104734,
      "EditedText": "Brian has reminded me of another point that Michael Russell asked me to raise. Mike has not received a copy of the Official Report from the first meeting or the previous meeting. Could that be looked into?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 104754,
      "EditedText": "However, the minister can still appear next week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 104774,
      "EditedText": "Fiona rightly asks whether we have a role to play. I would put it more strongly: we have an obligation to get involved. It is not a question of putting organisations on the spot; it is a question of this committee keeping itself abreast of the situation and ensuring that we are in possession of all the relevant information at any particular time. We are all aware that the situation is sensitive and fluid, but we must ensure that we have as much information as possible. We can arrange, at fairly short notice, meetings at which we can be briefed and brought up to date by organisations; and, as Fiona says, we may be able to offer some helpful advice—however unlikely that sounds. We should arrange such briefings, and do so as soon as they can be fitted into our schedule."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 104825,
      "EditedText": "Me?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 104837,
      "EditedText": "I wish to raise a point for clarification, convener. Jamie talked about all parties, but, given the new politics and the coalition, does that mean that Labour and the Liberal Democrats would have to be represented separately on sub-committees, or would they have only one representative?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 104858,
      "EditedText": "We probably want to hear from an academic rather than a lawyer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 104878,
      "EditedText": "Other members may be aware that the Child Poverty Action Group is lobbying for an amendment to the bill to extend eligibility for free school meals. That is why I am suggesting that organisation, but I realise that other bodies may have something to contribute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 104883,
      "EditedText": "We must hear the opinions of those who will have to implement and deal with the decisions that are made by this Parliament. I dissociate myself completely from a description of some of those organisations as mere pressure groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 104904,
      "EditedText": "I understand that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 104908,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to report on my involvement in those issues, if it would be helpful, and we could consider ways of taking them forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 104931,
      "EditedText": "The committee might have dealt with visits to community schools while I was out of the room—if so, interrupt me. We should arrange a limited programme of visits to a number of schools to get a first-hand view of the situation, not only in the community schools, but in rural and urban schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:39.6053936+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2132,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Mary Mulligan): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 104723,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, everybody. We have an agenda—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2132,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 104730,
      "EditedText": "Before I bring you in, Fiona, can I just say which issues I think we should be covering this afternoon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2132,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 104733,
      "EditedText": "Another point that concerns me, and which is not on your list of business, is the length of time that it takes for the Official Report of this committee to appear. At our last meeting we were questioning the minister quite closely. For all that we may have written down what was said, it would have been useful the following day to check what was said. It was more than a number of days until the report was available. I understand the strain on resources, but I think it is important that committees have Official Reports the day after they meet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104738",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 525
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 104738,
      "EditedText": "That is a very interesting idea and one with which I agree, but we need to take this further. I am happy to take it to the conveners group. That is one way of progressing this, because I am sure that we are not the only committee in this situation. With support from other conveners we might see something happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 104743,
      "EditedText": "The closing date for the ballot, which we were told at the previous meeting was 15 September, has been extended to 17 September because of postal difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 104745,
      "EditedText": "How do other members of the committee feel about that? The issue of changes to the negotiating machinery was raised the day after we last met, and it has been intimated that they may become part of the bill. We have not had an opportunity to discuss that with the minister. Are members of the committee happy for us to invite him back to our next meeting to talk about it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 104746,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we ask him about the ideas that he has for the SJNC. However, I would also like to mention that there is provision in the SJNC's statutes for going to arbitration. Without prejudging the outcome of the ballot, it would be pertinent to ask the minister about his attitude to arbitration as a possible way of resolving this dispute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 104749,
      "EditedText": "It has been intimated that the result will not be through until 17 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 104750,
      "EditedText": "But the result will not be announced on 17 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 104755,
      "EditedText": "Yes.The second item that I suggest we deal with is the Hampden letter. At the end of last week's meeting we agreed to write to the minister for up-to-date information on the Hampden situation. We have received his response. I am sorry that it was so late in coming, but the time scale was fairly short. I hope that people have had an opportunity to look at the letter. I will take questions on that before discussing how we should proceed with the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 104756,
      "EditedText": "The letter raises two separate issues. The first relates to Hampden itself. On the basis of this letter, the future of Hampden is still unresolved and open to speculation. The minister says:\"There are no plans for administration, liquidation or receivership.\"That was not what came out of the Thursday meeting to which the minister refers, which implied that that was one option that was being considered. We still do not have answers, and there are issues that remain to be resolved. We have to consider who is the guarantor for the Scottish Football Association Museum Trust, for instance—an issue that the minister raises.The affair also has implications for the role of this committee. Towards the end of the second last paragraph, the minister says: \"It is not for the Scottish Executive to disclose information of this nature to other parties\".I take exception to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee being referred to as another party. The sport committee should have been part and parcel of the negotiations on the future of Hampden. If the information is of such a confidential nature, we could have held a meeting in private at which the minister could have discussed it. As we are talking about £40 million of public funds, it is pertinent for the public to know; the public has put that money into Hampden and wants to know what is happening about it. This letter does not answer any of the questions.The committee should examine the future of Hampden and ask what the committee's role is in considering such issues. Surely the committees are here for a purpose: to achieve something for the voters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 104764,
      "EditedText": "One of the roles of the committees is to monitor what the Executive is doing. Ultimate responsibility for monitoring Hampden rests with the Scottish Executive, and responsibility for monitoring the Executive rests with the committees. As this committee is responsible for sport, we should call the relevant minister before us to answer all the unanswered questions. To say that we cannot do that because there may be a leak is rather a slur on fellow committee members. I hope that we all take the matter seriously; it is a major financial problem that affects everybody in Scotland. If we cannot get access to the answers, nobody can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 104765,
      "EditedText": "I must stress that I was not suggesting that leaks would come from the committee."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104768",
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      "ID": 118
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 104768,
      "EditedText": "I have to disagree with Ian on that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 104778,
      "EditedText": "The trouble is that our time is limited. To devote hours of committee time to replace, in effect, whatever body is running the national stadium at the moment, is not—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 104780,
      "EditedText": "I know all about commercial sensitivity; I have had a business that went bust. I know what it is like and what people are experiencing. I know the fears of the punters about whether they will have a stadium. What are this Parliament and its committees for? Is it to tidy up after something has gone wrong and so do what could have been done by Government-appointed committees anyway? Or is it to have a role in doing something?I am not accusing Mr Galbraith's letter of not telling the truth, I am just saying that some things are not in it. I gave a long list of questions that I think are pertinent. I appreciate that some of them could be injudicious at this moment—the question of the financial director and the fraud investigations, for example. However, the question of who is monitoring the use of public funds is not commercially sensitive or damaging, and the questions of whether the Scottish cup final cost extra money and whether the lecture theatre can go ahead are pertinent. There is a role for us. The public expect the Parliament and its committees to be involved—as we were last week—not to make things worse, but to find ways of allaying people's fears and bringing people together. We should at least ask Rhona Brankin—so that we do not get sick of the sight of Sam Galbraith—some questions that are not commercially sensitive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 104781,
      "EditedText": "How do members feel about inviting Rhona Brankin to a future meeting and including in the agenda questions on the up-to-date position of Hampden and on our ability to ask questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 104784,
      "EditedText": "Rhona has asked to attend a meeting of this committee to discuss the cultural strategy, which I think we would like to hear some views on. The consultation process on the strategy is open; it is due to finish at the end of October. As with the education bill, it would be useful for us to have a discussion at this stage. Do we agree to that invitation being extended?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 104785,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and it is important that it happens sooner rather than later, given the time scale that is involved. While I appreciate the importance of the previous topic, I would hate it to overshadow our agenda to the extent that we had only 10 minutes to discuss the cultural strategy and were unable to pinpoint some of the important issues about the method of consultation. I want to ensure that Rhona comes sooner rather than later, and that there is time to discuss the cultural strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 104786,
      "EditedText": "That is agreed. We will arrange for the meeting to take place as soon as possible.On the invitation to Greg Dyke, I have had contact with his office, although not directly with him—he seems to be busy. It has been difficult to suggest a meeting date that is suitable for us all. In the meantime, I have had a meeting with people from BBC Scotland, who made a suggestion on which I would appreciate members' comments—that is, those members who are still in attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 104787,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should have a break for press releases, and then we could get on with our work. It seems to be standard procedure in this committee for members to leave during meetings. It happened at the previous meeting, when a press release was scheduled to occur 20 minutes into the committee meeting. That is not the best way of conducting business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 104791,
      "EditedText": "We will continue, as we have a lot to get through and members do not have time to hang about.As I was saying, it was suggested that first we invite John McCormick, the controller of BBC Scotland, to address us on that organisation's future policy and programme scheduling, and that we then meet with the newly appointed governor, Sir Robert Smith, who is keen to meet us and give us his views on a number of issues relating to broadcasting. By that stage, we will have a diary date that suits everyone for meeting Greg Dyke. By then he will have had a chance to take up his post and get a handle on those issues that we consider are most important in Scotland. Is that acceptable to the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 104793,
      "EditedText": "I think that we will take that suggestion on board. Obviously, as Mr Dyke is finishing one job and starting another, there will be problems with diary dates. We will talk about having extra committee meetings later, because the issue seems to throw people.Sportscotland also wishes to brief us. We have circulated possible dates for that briefing and will let committee members know which date is most suitable.Can we now turn to the items on the list?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 104797,
      "EditedText": "We have a note of that already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 104802,
      "EditedText": "I realise that discussion of sub-committees is under the second item of business. Are we establishing the scope of business at the outset before we decide on that? There is already an awful lot of work, irrespective of the bill that we will investigate. Matters that we want to take on arise weekly. What are your thoughts about how we proceed, given that we will not make a decision about sub-committees until after we have discussed the business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 104803,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to discuss sub-committees first if Mr Monteith would like to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104807",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 104807,
      "EditedText": "Members will each have received a paper on sub-committees. There are certain procedures that we must go through to establish a sub-committee. At the conveners meeting, the general feeling was that establishing a sub-committee was a lot of trouble, although it would be of benefit for a few members to examine an issue. An informal group could consist of four members, so that there is one member from each party—in a formal sub-committee, there must be proportionality, which would create a ridiculous situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 104809,
      "EditedText": "I have no other committees, so I am relaxed about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104814",
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      "ID": 118
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 104814,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, the informal briefing would not be in the Official Report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 104815,
      "EditedText": "The findings could be read into the minutes of the meeting. It would not be an official report of a parliamentary proceeding, but we would get a report of what the committee adopted at the subsequent meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 104832,
      "EditedText": "That is a rather long-winded route."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 104834,
      "EditedText": "It is not so much that; rather, the concern is about the time that it would take. If we meet on a Wednesday and decide that we want to establish a sub-committee, the issue would be put off by a week, as the bureau does not meet until the following Tuesday. During that time, we could have agreed an informal group and the members involved could have met on the Tuesday and prepared a report ready to come back to the committee. It is more to do with time and the formal procedure that must be followed than anything else."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 104836,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty with that approach, Jamie, is that I guarantee that the issue that a member is interested in would be on the agenda for a different sub-committee, and that is why I am reluctant to get into that situation. Can we move on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 104838,
      "EditedText": "Nicola, to be honest, I hope that we would not need to worry about the representation of the parties on these groups. It should not be a consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 104843,
      "EditedText": "If we have an informal arrangement, we do not need to have a representative from each party, which would let Brian off occasionally. Gillian will correct me if I am wrong, but, on formal sub-committees, the standing orders say that there must be proportionality, which is another difficulty. On establishing sub-committees, the standing orders say that the committee\"shall have regard to the balance of political parties in the Parliament\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 104845,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that. We are clear about what we are looking for, what we are trying to find out and how we report back to the committee. Those reports would be recorded as party of the committee's business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 104849,
      "EditedText": "I take it that, rather than an ad hoc or informal group, we are discussing point 6 of the paper on sub-committees, which reads:\"A committee may appoint different reporters to report to it on different competent matters\".This would be a formal, rather than an informal, appointment of a rapporteur, which would have all the formality of a sub-committee without the bureaucracy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 104851,
      "EditedText": "On occasion, we could send Mike Russell away and tell him to come back and report to the committee. We can trust these people—why not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 104853,
      "EditedText": "One of the things that defines members of the Liberal party is that they are trusting, nice people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 104857,
      "EditedText": "The Law Society of Scotland could advise us who is the most appropriate lawyer to speak to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 104860,
      "EditedText": "It may well be deliberate, but there seems to be next to nothing on community education in the bill. It is important but it is not there. I am talking about informal learning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 104862,
      "EditedText": "The committee will remember that we do not have sole responsibility for community education, as we share it with the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 104864,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 104868,
      "EditedText": "The bill is really about schools and education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 104870,
      "EditedText": "Community education is often based in schools. To take a community school such as Balerno, the lead community education person is on the management team of the school. I recommend that the committee looks at Balerno as an example, to help sweep up some of those issues, including community education. I see Brian nodding—that is a good sign."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 104871,
      "EditedText": "I assumed that we would talk about the whole bill. The bill is all about standards and how information is assessed, gathered and used. It is important to look into that and the role of HM inspectors of schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 104872,
      "EditedText": "It is useful for members of the committee to get an idea of the issues that they think are important at this stage, but that does not mean that other issues will not arise later. As Nicola Sturgeon pointed out, if we invite people to speak to us, they may raise aspects of the matter that we had not thought of. Our list of subjects is just a guide; it is not prescriptive in any way.Let us move on to decide whom we want to invite to address the committee or to prepare briefings for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 104880,
      "EditedText": "We must not be slaves to pressure groups. All those groups have remits of their own and we do not want simply to hear from one group after another. Rather, we should go out to schools and meet children and teachers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 104888,
      "EditedText": "Following from what Ken said, I think that the idea of going out and talking to people is lovely, but we should not fall into the trap of what we heard from ministers last week—of thinking that if we go out and talk to people they can talk to us and we can learn something. Examining ways of getting information from people—especially young people—is down on the list somewhere. Before we meet people, we should ensure that we will do so in a way that is appropriate and will achieve something—rather than everybody saying, \"Thanks for coming to see us.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 104890,
      "EditedText": "I ask the committee to bear with me. There are a number of people whom we want to invite. I am happy to work with the committee clerk to arrange for those people and others representing various interests to come to the committee in an ordered way, so that we can speak to as many as possible. I take on board the point that we must not lose sight of the other areas that are covered by the committee. I will work with Gillian to produce a programme to show when people will come to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 104893,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. Maybe, it should come under the more general education part, but I hope that you will bear in mind what I said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 104894,
      "EditedText": "Very much so.We will move on to areas of education that are not immediately seen as being part of the bill. I say that carefully, as I am aware that people might want to include or knock out things further down the line. We will move on to items that we have not yet considered to be part of the bill, but which are still education issues. You have the list in front of you; do people want to add anything to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 104895,
      "EditedText": "I gave a number of items that are outwith the bill to Gillian. They are: Steiner/Waldorf schools; foreign language teaching in primaries; the teaching of Scottish history; and, although it should be addressed later as it requires some time, class sizes and pupil:teacher ratios."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 104896,
      "EditedText": "Can we take on board Ken's point about including Gaelic education in this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 104897,
      "EditedText": "I suggested the item on current initiatives in secondary education; the list specifies higher still, but I meant that as just an example. Other matters such as five to 14 and testing are also important and although they have not yet been discussed at meetings, we should cover them at some time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 104899,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to hear about members' priorities. We could then draw up a timetable for the committee to agree to."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 104909,
      "EditedText": "That might be a way of making progress. We talked earlier about having small groups examining parts of the education bill; we might similarly ask several members to report back to the committee on such issues. We could obviously use Nicola's expertise as well. We will make a note of that and add it to the report that will be presented to the committee. Are there any other issues concerning children and young people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 104910,
      "EditedText": "I quite like the broad headings. Is that how we are going to proceed? Is the agenda going to be the education bill, followed by other education issues—specifically wider curricular issues and the others that we talked about—and a section on children and young people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 104914,
      "EditedText": "I wondered about that last item, and I mentioned it to Nicola just before she left the room. Would we be a lead committee on the children's reporters thing, or would that fall to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee? There must be funny wee bits."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 104915,
      "EditedText": "That clearly overlaps the remit of both committees."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104916",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 104916,
      "EditedText": "I am quite happy to discuss the matter. I am not trying to stop the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 104918,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That idea of the flow of information from one committee to another has been raised at the conveners committee. As we are all so busy, we do not want to carry out the same work twice. However, we may approach a certain issue from a different angle and we may want to share our information with somebody else.We will move on to sport, which is what appears next on the agenda. The issues are: sport strategy; sportscotland; Hampden, which we have discussed; and drugs in sport. Are there any other issues that members have identified? No. We are in the process of organising a briefing with sportscotland. Is there anybody else whom members feel it would be useful to consult?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 104923,
      "EditedText": "I suggested earlier that we should look at the Scottish music business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 104925,
      "EditedText": "Your list of business already includes the national theatre. The junior minister for culture has mentioned that that will be part of the debate on the national cultural strategy, so we should bring forward our discussion on that, rather than put it back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 104928,
      "EditedText": "Not all Scottish music is performed by Moira Anderson. I would like us to do a wee bit better with Scottish music traditions. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 104932,
      "EditedText": "We will end the meeting with a discussion on travel. You are right, Nicola: such visits would be helpful. We will include community schools in the list of bodies from which we would like to take evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 104934,
      "EditedText": "That is true.There are difficulties with the timing of our meetings. We are programmed to meet fortnightly on a Wednesday morning but, given the work load that we have been discussing, I appreciate that that will not be often enough. Our meeting at this time on a Tuesday would unfairly prevent one member from attending. I suggest that we arrange three slots for meetings—Tuesday morning, Tuesday afternoon and Wednesday morning—and rotate those times so that the same members will not always be missing. It will be important to ensure that agendas are circulated as early as possible, so that members can make informed decisions about whether they need to come to the additional meeting at the expense of another committee's meeting.How do members feel about that arrangement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 104936,
      "EditedText": "And we will have a regular additional meeting every week now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C104938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 104938,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that, if we are going to make a visit, we should try to make the best use of that time. If possible, we should consider other aspects of the committee's work. I suggest that we visit Burnfoot Community School in Hawick and take on some of the rugby issues in the Borders, where the introduction of professionalism is having an impact on young people and on the teaching and development of the game at local clubs. We should examine some of the cultural issues in the Borders, too, such as the Historic Scotland and National Trust for Scotland properties that we could visit. We might combine the three aspects of the committee's remit in one visit, which would not be too time-consuming, nor too costly. I am sure that Ian would be delighted to go to the Borders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 104941,
      "EditedText": "That is a useful suggestion. We should make the best use of any visits that we undertake. I have been warned against going to the Borders or the Highlands in December and January, but we will try to organise a visit as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 104949,
      "EditedText": "If members have specific issues that we could address, it might be useful if they could pass them on to Gillian. Then we can list them and determine where there are overlaps. I take on board Karen's point about making the best use of visits.The final item that I want to mention does not come under the heading of \"Any other business\"—it is that we do not have \"Any other business\" on the agenda. That is part of the standing orders of the Parliament. We must always notify people of what is on the agenda—not just committee members, but members of the public and any interested bodies—so that they know what is coming up and will not be caught unawares if something is discussed that they did not know about. That is a practical issue, and I know that it causes problems for members if matters arise at short notice. If something arises that committee members want to add to the agenda after the agenda has been circulated, I suggest that they speak to either myself or Gillian. We will try to notify members of the item, so that it can be dealt with, although that will not be under the formal heading of \"Any other business\". We are not trying to preclude discussion, and I am aware that there might be occasions when there is an emergency. However, the standing orders say that there shall not be  \"Any other business\", either for committees or for the Parliament's meetings. Therefore, that heading will not appear on the agenda, although we will try our level best to include items that are suggested by members before the start of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104954",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
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      "ContributionID": 104954,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:16."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C104722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:31"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104725",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 104725,
      "EditedText": "I have a note of Mike Russell's situation. There are a number of items that I would like to cover this afternoon, one of which is the scheduling of our meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104729",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 104729,
      "EditedText": "I have a point of order."
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  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104731",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 104731,
      "EditedText": "My point of order relates to the agenda. You began the meeting by saying that we have a running order. Our agenda has two items on it. My first concern is that we receive the agenda at far too short notice and that it does not tell us what we are coming here to discuss. The lack of an opportunity for any other competent business is also an important point. In particular, Hampden does not appear on today's agenda, yet we ended our last meeting by saying that we would request an answer on that from the minister for today's meeting. The fact that it is not on the agenda worries me. What does that mean for the committee in terms of making decisions about future meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2132,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2132,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 104735,
      "EditedText": "On the last point, it has now been agreed that all committee members will receive copies of the Official Report for each meeting.Regarding the time scale for publication of the report; at the moment the way that the report is staffed means that producing committee reports the day after committees meet is not possible. The more often committees meet, the worse the situation will get. At the moment all that we can say is that reports will be available before the next meeting of a committee. If members are unhappy with that, they will need to discuss that with the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2132,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2132,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 104736,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is an important point. As Brian said, we did have the ministers here. If the committee system is going to work, it must get into the nuts and bolts of legislation and of amendments and engage in cross-examination. As Brian has indicated, important issues could come up.I fully appreciate that official reporters are stretched and cannot be pushed any further. I have seen it with my own eyes. However, there seems to be a presumption—and I hope I am wrong—that the proceedings in the chamber will take precedence over committees. There can be days when proceedings in the chamber are not vastly important, whereas the work of the committees might be.Without having a go at the official report, we should back Brian."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2132,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2132,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 104737,
      "EditedText": "Gillian said that we could make our views known to the corporate body. We should as a committee make our view known. It is not for us to decide that the chamber should have priority over committees, but it is for the corporate body to ensure that enough staff are employed to do the work of the Parliament.We are always talking about openness, accessibility, transparency and accountability. If committee reports are not available on the web and in print the day after the committee meets, how can we refer people to what we are doing? If something comes up in the chamber or in committee that people want to know about they must wait for a week for an Official Report. Without an Official Report, all folk have to go by is what the media presents to them. That is why we have an Official Report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 104742,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to the substantial issue of the way that the committee's future work programme could be shaped. There are two items that we have discussed previously. We should perhaps deal with them first.The first is teachers' pay negotiations. I believe Gillian has some information with which to bring us up to date on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 104747,
      "EditedText": "Anything that may be included in the bill is legitimate for this committee to consider, particularly given that we have already started to examine the process. We will do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 104748,
      "EditedText": "Am I right, convener, in believing that we will know the result of the ballot by the time of the meeting to which you referred?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 104751,
      "EditedText": "No, we are being told that the result will not be available until 21 or 22 September. That will cause us problems, because our meeting is on 22 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 104759,
      "EditedText": "That is why I asked, back on 3 August, that the committee meet to bring all those bodies together, rather than just the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 104760,
      "EditedText": "Two different points are at issue. Fiona is absolutely right that there is a case to be answered, but do we want to make the matter our No 1 priority and do we want to speak only to Sam Galbraith? A lot of other bodies are involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 104763,
      "EditedText": "Rather than ask Sam Galbraith along, we should consider asking Rhona Brankin. Financial support has been received not only from the Scottish Executive but from sportscotland and other bodies, so it may be more appropriate for Rhona Brankin to answer our questions and assure us that the Executive is on top of the matter and that our fears are groundless."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 104770,
      "EditedText": "May I suggest a way forward? I was going to ask whether we should invite Rhona Brankin to the meeting to discuss the national cultural strategy. If we do that, perhaps we should add to the agenda some questions about the up-to-date position on Hampden. I foresee two restrictions. First, examination of the minister could not take place within the next couple of weeks, because the next two meetings will be taken up with other items. Secondly, if the minister says that she cannot give us the information, either because it is confidential or because the Executive is not involved, the committee would have to accept that we will have to find the information by other means. Should we ask Rhona Brankin about Hampden when we call her to discuss the national cultural strategy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 104771,
      "EditedText": "You said that, depending on the minister's answer, we may have to find other ways of getting the information. Should not we be doing that now? The sports committee of the Scottish Parliament ought to be asking the people involved to come and tell us what they propose, and there may be things that we can suggest to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 104775,
      "EditedText": "I want to bring this discussion to a close, because we are in danger of going around the houses 10 times. I will call Ken and Brian, and then we will try to come to an agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 104782,
      "EditedText": "That would be fine. As you and Kenneth have said, there is a time problem, but there is a time problem for Hampden as well.At the end of the letter, Sam says:\"I shall continue to keep you informed.\"While negotiations are going on, we should ensure that, even if ministers do not come and sit in front of us, they keep this committee informed about what is happening at each step of the way. There is lot of speculation at the moment and that does not create a healthy atmosphere for organisations to conduct their negotiations. We need openness and we, as a committee, need to be informed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 104788,
      "EditedText": "It would be more productive if committee members were here for the whole of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 104789,
      "EditedText": "Shall we adjourn?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 104794,
      "EditedText": "Before we go further, can I add an item to the list?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 104796,
      "EditedText": "I was too late on Monday to phone Gillian. Can I add Gaelic education to the list?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 104801,
      "EditedText": "You are correct to say that the bill will not cover every improvement that is needed in education; as Sam said, there are other ways of making changes without using legislation. We examine the bill and agree on which aspects to concentrate. We can then discuss whether to call witnesses or to ask someone to brief us on the issues. After that, we can investigate educational issues concerning sport and culture that lie outside the scope of the bill. At the end, we will get clever and prioritise issues that, because they lie outside the bill, are not subject to a strict timetable.At the previous meeting, I mentioned that it was becoming apparent that the clerks and the research team supporting the committee were greatly overworked. The researchers, in particular, have to work for more than one committee. They are pleading with us to decide a structure for how we want to progress, so that they can create a work plan to enable us to get as much information as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 104804,
      "EditedText": "I support what has been said and believe that what we are doing is correct. However, I have a worry about how we decide our schedule. As you know, I have never experienced Westminster, but my understanding is that committees there decide what their priorities are and establish the order of what will be examined. A pressing issue is taken on board owing to a particular circumstance or after pleading from a member or group of members. The committee then decides whether to rejig its timetable. It is important that we get this right; that was where I was coming from last week in our discussions with Sam about the bill, notwithstanding the points made by Mike and Nicola. Once we have decided that we are doing something, I will have to be convinced of the need to rejig the schedule. We must be careful not to become a reactive committee. The deadly danger is that we stray from the detailed examination of legislation. I have a lot of points that I want to make about the education bill, as I am sure we all have. We should establish a list of priorities and a code of conduct as to how we take forward an issue that might spring up to do with Gaelic—as Ken mentioned—or with our constituencies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 104811,
      "EditedText": "On that point, Mary, what power would such a level of informality have to bring folk to us? If, for example, we have an informal grouping to discuss sport, and we want people from sportscotland to come and explain something to us, they might go, \"You're not a committee. We don't have to come.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 104812,
      "EditedText": "In standing orders, there is someone called a reporter—although the actual name has not yet been chosen. A reporter would be empowered to request all the information that a committee is empowered to request. My understanding is that there would be no restrictions on a small group of committee members asking exactly what we would be asking as a whole. Such an exercise would in no way be seen as second class, and that group could take on board only the information that we would be looking for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 104813,
      "EditedText": "An informal briefing would not be a proceeding of the Parliament; it would not have the full powers or protection of a parliamentary proceeding. The committee would always be behind it, however; any difficulties encountered would be referred back to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 104816,
      "EditedText": "I can see the value of people looking at the time scale of our work, but I am concerned about sidelining things. Two or three people would go off to do a piece of work—their meetings would not have an official report—they would bring it back to committee and it would end up getting lost. I can see that happening with the sort of agenda that we have. I am not saying that the idea of a sub-committee or working group is not a good idea—I think that it is a good idea—but I want to ensure that such a group could ask to consult particular people and could make recommendations to the committee. If that did not happen, a lot of time could be wasted in taking particular issues forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 104819,
      "EditedText": "Three."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 104821,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 104822,
      "EditedText": "We could call it a committee all the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 104824,
      "EditedText": "I see what is on your mind—you mean people such as yourself? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 104827,
      "EditedText": "You cannot have committee meetings that way. Where is your diary, Mary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 104831,
      "EditedText": "In order to establish a sub-committee, a motion must go from the bureau to the Parliament for approval. The committee would need to go through the bureau to obtain agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104833",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 104833,
      "EditedText": "Is there a concern that the bureau might not agree to move such a motion if we asked it to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 104840,
      "EditedText": "I know that. We have been told that because someone said that we should try to get a balance between the four parties, which would be all right. However, we should try to work together and see whether there are four members who, as a group, would come back to the committee and report on sport or culture, without always following party lines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 104850,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is what the committee is looking for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 104859,
      "EditedText": "There is no mention of school libraries in the bill. I would like the committee to look into that and take evidence on the fact that school libraries improve standards in schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 104861,
      "EditedText": "There is a great deal of uncertainty in community education in Scotland. The way forward is not at all clear, and conflicting messages have been coming out for some years. The committee would be well advised to address that issue—we would be doing a service to the whole of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 104865,
      "EditedText": "There is a culture spin-off from it as well, which those of us who have been councillors have all seen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 104867,
      "EditedText": "Community education should be included in the bill in some way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 104869,
      "EditedText": "It talks about including young people in education and addressing issues about community schools as part of a holistic approach to education. For me, community education is also an holistic approach to education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 104879,
      "EditedText": "I too am in touch with the Child Poverty Action Group and I am aware of the debate on school meals. There is some discussion about whether that falls within our remit, as free school meals are currently provided as part of the benefits system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 104884,
      "EditedText": "I remind members to go through the chair, as a number of members have been waiting to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 104885,
      "EditedText": "I agree about the organisations that have been mentioned. The only one on your list that I did not hear mentioned is the Scottish Council of Independent Schools, which is included for consultation on the education bill and is likely to be included in the General Teaching Council for Scotland section that will no doubt be added. Because there are implications for registration procedures and because an independent school member of the GTC is a possibility, the Scottish Council of Independent Schools should be asked, as I am not entirely sure that we will hear from it what we think we might."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 104886,
      "EditedText": "We now have some suggestions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 104887,
      "EditedText": "They can have 10 minutes each."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 104889,
      "EditedText": "I certainly did not want to give the impression that I am putting down any organisations—the use of the term pressure groups was wrong. I am quite happy with all of those organisations. I agree with Fiona that we want to make sure that we hear from children."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104891",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 104891,
      "EditedText": "Given what I was saying last week about school structures, revenue and capital, can I take it that the representative of COSLA who comes to see us will be the appropriate person from the distribution committee—either the chairman or the clerk of services, who seem to be the key people in the matter of capital?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104905",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 104905,
      "EditedText": "We will see how things go with that one. There seems to be quite a lot that we could take on board. Shall we deal now with the issues under the heading of children and young people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104907",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 104907,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that, because of the nature of the committee and the business load that it will have, there may be ways in which we can address those issues other than asking someone to come and speak to us about them. The committee may request briefings, or two or three members of the committee may be asked to go away as we discussed earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 104911,
      "EditedText": "There will be many overlaps, which is why I am wary of saying that that is how we will proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 104913,
      "EditedText": "In terms of practicality, that would be a good way forward, but we should retain some flexibility. That gives people an idea of what is on the agenda and what is coming up, so that they can decide their business accordingly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 104917,
      "EditedText": "If we discuss it and think that it is important, should we tell the Justice and Home Affairs Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 104921,
      "EditedText": "What might be useful is for us first to have a briefing from sportscotland on the issues that have been identified so far. We could then see which other organisations or individuals we want to ask for further information. You are right: there will be other organisations that we will want to invite at that stage. Finally, we move on to culture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 104924,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, I had forgotten that. I will include it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 104926,
      "EditedText": "That was mentioned during the debate on the cultural strategy, so it might be something that members want to raise with the minister when she attends the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 104937,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We will send round a schedule to give members an idea of when the meetings will be.Our last item is travel. The issue was discussed at the conveners meeting, at which it was decided that there would be practical and financial difficulties—in terms of research, clerking and reporting staff—if all the committees decided that they wanted to travel out of Edinburgh at the same time. However, that should not stop us travelling round to discuss aspects of the bill and of education in general with people—we should still travel to community schools, for example. Because of the financial implications, we will have to put to the conveners committee applications for any travelling that we decide we want to do. Committees will be expected to make a definite proposal that details their reasons for travelling, but I am sure that this committee can justify any travel on which it decides and will be clear about its programme.I suggest that we examine community schools first and that we consider going to two or three to see different aspects of their work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 104939,
      "EditedText": "You are looking for my seat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C104940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 104940,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
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    },
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      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 104943,
      "EditedText": "Could not we take \"the\" bus?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 104944,
      "EditedText": "Is there only the one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 104945,
      "EditedText": "We could take a bus from St Andrew Square or George Street, or wherever they stop these days. I assure members that the committee will not require any pomp and circumstance. We are all aware that we have a job to do, which is the reason for a visit if we go anywhere.Gillian, do you need a formal declaration from us that we want to take that further?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 104947,
      "EditedText": "The committee will have to agree to every visit, so that they can be put on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 104948,
      "EditedText": "Do you want us to propose visits?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104951",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 104951,
      "EditedText": "You can indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 104952,
      "EditedText": "I would like members of the committee to consider signing up to the children's promise. As we are the children's committee of the Scottish Parliament, it would be appropriate to give our last hour's wages to children's charities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104953",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 104953,
      "EditedText": "We should consider that and take a recommendation to our colleagues as well. That will be on the agenda for the next meeting. Members should pass on to the clerk any other items that arise. Thank you very much for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 104728,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 104744,
      "EditedText": "That means that it might be well into the following week when the results are announced. However—and this relates to the point of order that I raised at the start of the meeting—that is not the same as taking evidence from all the parties to the SJNC about the current negotiations. There is a separate point to be made about the future of the negotiating machinery. I would like the minister to appear before us again as soon as possible—perhaps at our next meeting—to mop up the part of the education bill that we were not able to address with him last week."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104777",
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      "ID": 525
    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 104777,
      "EditedText": "Nobody is suggesting that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
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      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 104792,
      "EditedText": "If Greg Dyke is having difficulties co-ordinating his diary with our schedule of meetings, perhaps we could accommodate him outside our normal schedule. It is important to meet him as soon as we can."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104823",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 525
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 104823,
      "EditedText": "Can it be any three who make up the quorum?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104841",
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      "ID": 525
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 104841,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy with that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104844",
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      "ID": 525
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 104844,
      "EditedText": "I think that people would be happy with an informal arrangement, taking on board Cathy's point about ensuring that there was both structure and accountability, which was a good point."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 104873,
      "EditedText": "As an opening gambit, I have a number of organisations to suggest, including the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the main teaching unions, and the General Teaching Council, whose paper should not be ignored in our consideration of the bill. I also suggest Her Majesty's inspectors, the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland, the Scottish School Boards Association and the Scottish Parent Teacher Council. The Child Poverty Action Group should also be included, as its work concerns standards in education. A representative from the group could give us a public law briefing. Also, as Brian Monteith mentioned last week, we should speak to a representative from St Mary's Episcopal Primary School, the only remaining opted-out school. That is not an exhaustive list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104898",
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      "ID": 525
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 104898,
      "EditedText": "I do not have anything to add to the list of issues, but I have a view on what our priorities should be."
    },
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 104900,
      "EditedText": "It is obvious that we will want to take evidence on the education bill from a range of organisations, but further to Jamie's point, if COSLA representatives are here to talk about the education bill, there is no reason why we cannot kill two birds with one stone. Of course, COSLA would have to be told in advance that we wanted to ask questions on other matters.Regarding our priorities, we have a four-year term so we do not have to do everything at once, but it would be useful, as we consider the bill, to consider other important matters that impinge on educational achievement. First there is the issue of resources, about which there is a war of statistics in education. It would be useful if the committee could throw some light on the real position of local councils regarding education funding. Secondly there is the link between poverty and educational achievement and the state school infrastructure. In addition, parts of the curriculum—civic education, sustainability—are not easily measured.We should keep higher still as a standing item that might need to be looked at; I have a feeling that higher still may have life in it yet, in terms of controversy. We should also consider the procedure whereby small and rural schools are closed or earmarked for closure.I have two issues to raise about children, but are we discussing that topic now?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104906",
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      "ID": 525
    },
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      "ID": 118
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 104906,
      "EditedText": "Child-centred policies and the UN convention on the rights of children are among those issues. Perhaps rather than becoming involved in working out what should be happening, we should push the Executive—which has made statements about those issues—to say what it is doing.I put two other issues on the agenda, the first of which is new opportunities funding. There is an anomaly at the moment, as education and child care are completely devolved but lottery funding—which is quite substantial for child care—is still a reserved matter, and the Parliament has no control over the spending of that money. Would it be appropriate for this committee to talk to someone from the new opportunities fund to ensure that its priorities match ours? There is an anomaly in the system.The second issue arises out of children's hearings. I have been involved in a case that was featured in the Sunday Mail, and I would like to raise the issue of how children's panels operate. I specifically raise the issue of warrants and how they have been implemented by the police. That is a minor issue, but one that we might want to consider at some stage."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104727",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "EditedText": "I am happy to ask the minister to reattend the committee to discuss that particular aspect. I do not have a problem with that. It would just be a case of us organising which meeting he should come to, whether the all-party meeting that we have already discussed or another one. I will take your comments on board and we will try to programme something in. Perhaps we could decide when exactly to hold such a meeting once we are further down the agenda and are putting together the work programme. Is that acceptable?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104732",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 104732,
      "EditedText": "Your points on the timing of the agenda being made available to members, so that they know exactly what is coming up, and on the way in which the agenda is produced, which—as with lots of things at the moment—is still being developed, will be taken on board. I wanted to come on to today's agenda and flesh out the two points that are on it. You will see that the issue that you raised has been included on the briefing paper. The first item on the agenda is the committee's future work programme. A number of items have been raised at previous meetings that need to be considered under that item: the teachers' pay dispute and provision for a meeting; the Hampden letter, which I hope all members now have a copy of and have had a chance to look at; our outstanding invitation to Greg Dyke to come to speak to us; and a request from Rhona Brankin, Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport, to attend the committee to discuss whatever the committee wants as well as the national cultural strategy that is currently out for consultation. We are also in the process of setting up a briefing session with sportscotland, which we will try to include.The paper circulated by the clerk also picks up on a number of issues in which people have an interest and that they want to discuss. Some of those relate to the bill and some to areas within the general remit of the committee, whether education, sport, culture or children.The next item that I want to address is the timing of meetings, which comes back to Nicola's point. We are programmed in for every alternate Wednesday morning. That will continue, as it is suitable for all members. However, as we said at the previous meeting, there are concerns about taking our work load forward within that kind of time scale, particularly with the bill to consider. We have, therefore, decided to consider holding additional meetings. That will have repercussions for every member of the committee, because no matter when we timetable meetings for, they will clash with something. My suggestion—I will put it to you now, although we will come back to it later—is that we rotate the time of the additional meetings, so that the same person does not miss meetings or must make a choice about which meeting to attend.The second item on the agenda covers two issues that dropped off the agenda of the previous meeting—sub-committees and the committee travelling outside Edinburgh—both of which have now been discussed by the conveners committee, so I have some suggestions to put forward."
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 104739,
      "EditedText": "I thought that the computers went down on the day of our previous meeting. Are you saying that that is what the time scale will normally be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2132,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 104740,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2132,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2132,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 104741,
      "EditedText": "I would be satisfied if the issue was taken to the conveners committee. I will also take it further with the Conservative group, and I will ask that it be raised in the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 104753,
      "EditedText": "There are two issues. First, we should discuss the future of the negotiating mechanism, which the minister referred to in the chamber last Thursday in answer to a question, and the possibility that it might be included in the bill. Secondly, following the ballot we should invite along all the parties involved in the negotiations, because we want to hear how each of them views the situation. That is what we had already decided.Our difficulty is that the ballot process has been put back and might run into our meeting. I suggest that we should not invite everyone for the 22 September but postpone that. Otherwise, if the result were announced on that day people would not have the chance to reach a position on it. Is that acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 104757,
      "EditedText": "This letter is interesting more for what it does not say than for what it does. All it does is provoke further questions. I will run through some of them to give you a flavour of what we might have to do, such as writing another letter or meeting people.Interestingly, in the third paragraph, the minister says that\"the Scottish Executive is co-operating closely with the major funder,\"and that it was first alerted to possible financial problems in late July. That surprises me because reports of financial problems appeared in early July.This committee will want to establish what monitoring procedures were in place for the spending of public money. Were members of the Scottish Executive or other public officials able to attend works committee meetings that might have indicated that there were problems? For instance, it has been alleged by a number of commentators that the rush to hold the Scottish cup final in May resulted in extra expenditure that had not been accounted for before. If that was the case, it was before July, so someone should have been monitoring the situation for the taxpayer.It is also not clear from the letter whether there is a suggestion of misuse of public funds. Obviously, that is what members of this committee are particularly concerned about. There is also the question of the non-payment of McAlpine and where that is going. I understand the commercial sensitivity of that, but, again, I am led to believe that the projected debt for phase 2 is £4 million. Oddly enough, that seems to be the same figure for which McAlpine is awaiting payment. I am also led to believe that the projected debt will rise to £6 million if the lecture theatre is completed. Does that mean that the lecture theatre can proceed? What are the plans if it does not proceed, as, presumably, it is built into the business plan that the lecture theatre will bring revenue into the stadium?Furthermore, the letter does not mention the departure of the finance chief of the project, an event that occurred on the same day that the fraud squad arrived at the stadium. That may be coincidental, but, again, we will want to have more information about that. Similarly, it has been alleged that there has been some settlement to the departing financial director. If there has been a problem and a settlement has been made, we should know whether that settlement is coming out of public funds.A number of people, including subcontractors, have told me that they are awaiting payment and that they, in turn, have not paid further contractors whom they have engaged. Those subcontractors are in negotiations with McAlpine, whom they are subcontracted to. A chain of events is being created for contractors throughout the Scottish construction industry and, while a larger firm such as McAlpine might be able to take it on the chin by restructuring its finances, smaller companies will be in particular difficulty.Many questions have been left unanswered. I accept that there are commercial sensitivities to consider, but we need more information. I agree with Fiona that, even if it has to be in private, we need reassurance that proper procedures are in place to monitor and resolve the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 104758,
      "EditedText": "Brian asked who is monitoring the project and whether there has been a misuse of public funds. Those are fair and pertinent questions, but I am not sure that the Executive is the body to answer them. A lot of bodies are responsible for the—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 104761,
      "EditedText": "That is what I have been saying; many co-funders—I think that is what they call themselves—are involved. The matter should be a priority; we are talking about the national stadium."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 104762,
      "EditedText": "Can we come to that later? First, I want to answer some points that have been raised so far. I am not here to answer for the Executive's letter, but given that the letter is here in black and white, we must assume that these are the Executive's answers and that they are true.The suggestion that there is information to the contrary makes matters very difficult. It is obvious that further questions will arise from the letter and that we have concerns. Part of the difficulty is that there is still a misunderstanding about how our committees operate. Perhaps it is taking some time for those of us who come from a local authority background to realise that we operate slightly differently here. It is for the Executive, as the Government, to progress such matters and deal with any difficulties.I share everyone's general concern about any possible misuse of public funds. However, a large amount of lottery money is involved in the project and specific procedures exist for the regulation of that money; there are people whose responsibility it is to take that on board and to ask questions about how lottery money is being spent. Hence, we did not have the emergency meeting that Fiona suggested because at that stage it was not for the committee to become that involved.We have now asked for information as a committee, we have a letter in front of us and, if the committee so wishes, we can ask further questions of the Executive about the handling of this matter. I add one slight note of caution, in that there is no doubt that much commercial sensitivity is involved. While we could take the information in private, I am always reluctant to hold meetings in private. The committee must be seen to be operating openly and we should be prepared to conduct as much business as possible in public, although that will involve difficulties in relation to commercial sensitivity.No matter how hard we try to hold meetings of this size in private, there will always be leaks somewhere. That could cause problems for those whom we are actively trying to protect—the general public, whose money is being spent—and for the future of the national stadium. We must bear that in mind when we make our decision.In terms of whether members want to proceed, are there any suggestions or questions that are still unanswered?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 104766,
      "EditedText": "The Executive has a limited role in the Hampden affair. We have put questions to Sam Galbraith and he has given a detailed response. As he says in the second-last paragraph:\"Matters are at an extremely sensitive stage.\"He has given us all the information that he can at the moment. Getting him or Rhona Brankin back to answer more questions will take us no further forward.If we want to take matters forward we must allow the rescue package to be put in place. We could speak to the big investors—the private builders, the Millennium Commission or whoever—but it would not be helpful to bring back the ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 104767,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Kenneth. We should wait until the rescue package is fixed. Are people worried about the future of Hampden or are they trying to stir things? I would like to give the minister and his team a chance. His letter says:\"Matters are at an extremely sensitive stage.\"We should give them time and come back to the issue in a month."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 104769,
      "EditedText": "I thought she might."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 104772,
      "EditedText": "This is a sensitive matter. We had a similar discussion about the teachers' pay negotiations. If people are involved in fairly sensitive negotiations, should we put them on the spot and make them give hard and fast answers, or should we give them flexibility to come to a resolution?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 104773,
      "EditedText": "Do not we have a role to play?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 104776,
      "EditedText": "In principle, I agree with keeping up to date with developments, but it is not our job to run the national stadium."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 104783,
      "EditedText": "We are all keen that this should be resolved. We would be more than happy to lend any assistance that we can. Do we agree to invite the minister and, in the meantime, to ask the Scottish Executive to keep us informed of any substantial movement, as promised in the letter?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 104790,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 104795,
      "EditedText": "Do you have to?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 104798,
      "EditedText": "Another item that is part of our culture brief is the Scottish music business. I am quite happy to include that, because it is not an issue by itself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 104799,
      "EditedText": "Gillian will make a note of that.At an earlier meeting, Nicola asked how we would timetable committees while the education bill was before Parliament and whether the bill would take over our lives. Although the bill is important and we will have a strict timetable to discuss aspects of it, I am keen not to lose sight of other areas within our remit. Is that a general feeling?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 104805,
      "EditedText": "As there is going to be a lot of work, sub-committees will allow us to examine matters other than the bill, which could dominate our work. The diary problems for sub-committee meetings are easier to resolve than they are for committee meetings; when five of us cannae make a certain date, the problem is easier to resolve than it is among 11 members. Other members of the committee would not be prevented from attending the sub-committee meeting and culture or sports matters could be brought to the sub-committee's attention. As we know from the standing orders, a sub-committee could not do something without the eventual agreement of the committee. Setting up sub-committees would allow flexibility and enable us to discuss problems that arise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 104806,
      "EditedText": "I would welcome that. The danger is that if we take our eye off the ball—on legislation, for example—we are failing in our duty. The tension between the Executive and committees is built into the system. If we make a hash of things, we will wreck the system at the beginning. Given the comments in our papers about sub-committees, I am interested in your thoughts about how we should progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 104808,
      "EditedText": "Brian would be a busy man."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 104810,
      "EditedText": "There would be difficulties in setting up a sub-committee in that way, so I feel that we should have ad hoc arrangements. We should ask members to examine specific items and return to the committee with information that they have gathered in small groupings—here or elsewhere. Such an informal way of advancing things would be more beneficial for committees than the formal structure of sub-committees would."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 104817,
      "EditedText": "We would have to ensure that there was some structure to what people were doing. I would not want four members to go away, take evidence and discover that their work was wasted. It would be important for those members to deal with a specific remit: after they take evidence or have briefings, they would have to report back to the committee. That would become part of the committee agenda and so would go on the record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 104818,
      "EditedText": "What is the quorum for this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 104820,
      "EditedText": "We do not actually need sub-committees—members need not turn up to deal with things in which they are not interested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 104826,
      "EditedText": "That is an old trick."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 104828,
      "EditedText": "There is some sense in what Fiona says, but members of this committee should not feel obliged to turn up and should not be under pressure. Goodness me, if the committee had two meetings a week, I could not make both. I am coming at this from a different angle. If this committee met twice a week, members would feel under pressure to attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 104829,
      "EditedText": "We have to be clear why we need working committees. We agree that they will take very important items forward and bring back findings to the committee. An ad hoc arrangement would be inappropriate. We need a time scale and terms of reference for the pieces of work that we do, so that members are clear about what is expected of them and about the status of the work that they bring back. Otherwise, we might say, \"It's only art,\" or, \"It's only sport, so it doesn't matter.\" I do not think that that would give all the issues that we cover a fair say. If we are going to pursue that idea, we should agree, as a group, terms of reference for each piece of work, who will undertake it, how the information is to be brought back to the committee and the status of that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 104830,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but there would need to be an understanding that it would not be a formal sub-committee. I say that only because of the procedures that we have to go through to establish a sub-committee. Perhaps Gillian can expand on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 104835,
      "EditedText": "For the sake of argument—members can disagree with me—we could simply ask for three sub-committees on sport, education and culture, with four members on two of the sub-committees and three members on the third. We could try to achieve political balance, although we cannot get all four parties on the three-man—sorry, the three-person—committee, but would that not be a simple request to submit to the bureau?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 104842,
      "EditedText": "That is great."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 104846,
      "EditedText": "May I give an example? We are reaching a form of consensus—oh, hush my mouth—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 104848,
      "EditedText": "I spell it with a \"k\". Mike is not here, but I know that Scottish Screen is dear to his heart. A number of studio developments are proposed, but we might feel that that issue is too detailed for us, as a large committee, to consider. However, we could set up a group to consider the number of applications that are made for studio developments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 104852,
      "EditedText": "That might be rash."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 104854,
      "EditedText": "I look forward to the day Ian says the same thing about me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 104855,
      "EditedText": "On that note of consensus, we move on to a more difficult issue, which is prioritising what we will deal with. A number of specific issues about the improvement in Scottish education bill were raised at our previous meeting and have been again since then. Does anyone wish to add anything to that list?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 104863,
      "EditedText": "In terms of youth work? Working with young people is an integral part of the work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 104866,
      "EditedText": "Cathy, are you talking about community education in terms of the bill or in general?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2621242+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 104874,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Qualifications Authority is notable by its absence from the list. Someone from that organisation should come to speak to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 104875,
      "EditedText": "Pre-school education is going to become statutory for the first time, so we need advice from pre-school bodies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 104876,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Pre-School Play Association needs to be involved, as it is interested not only in pre-school provision, but in parental involvement in that provision. On community education and community development, we should invite the Community Development Foundation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 104877,
      "EditedText": "I note Nicola's suggestion that we should consult the Child Poverty Action Group. A number of agencies that deal with children will have a view on the education bill and its impact on children. It is not the only group that could contribute, but it is one that should be considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2133,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 104882,
      "EditedText": "I am not trying to put them down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 104892,
      "EditedText": "Will such a meeting come under the bill section, or under the more general education part?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104901",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 104901,
      "EditedText": "No, not yet; we will discuss it separately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104902",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 104902,
      "EditedText": "I would like us to consider how the youth culture strategy impinges on our schools; that may be a crossover issue. I agree that Gaelic is important, but we must have a mechanism to encourage children to speak and learn Scots language in schools. Music and culture, as we knew them, are disappearing from schools and we need a positive strategy to bring them back. We talk about poverty and we want to ensure that young children have a voice, but it is bad for children's confidence if they cannot use their mother tongue to express their opinions. We should consider the whole issue of culture and language."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 104903,
      "EditedText": "It is clear that members want the curriculum to develop to include subjects such as culture, sport and the use of Gaelic and Scots language. We also think that education has a role to play in teaching some kind of civic responsibility. That is perhaps being squeezed at the moment and we may want it to be further up our agenda.Nicola suggested that if we have COSLA here to discuss the education bill, we could go on to discuss Jamie's point. There could be procedural difficulties with that because if two or three other bodies also attend that meeting to give evidence, we may run out of time. We will need to feel our way a bit. It would be useful to ask COSLA about other matters while we have the opportunity, but on the other hand it could cause difficulties with other invited bodies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 104912,
      "EditedText": "We will have an hour and a half to discuss the education bill—is that the plan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 104919,
      "EditedText": "Given sportscotland's remit, and the fact that a great deal of work on soccer and rugby is done outwith sportscotland, it would be useful for the Scottish Football Association, the Scottish Premier League and the Scottish League to brief us. We could also ask to see the Scottish Rugby Union."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 104920,
      "EditedText": "There are many more organisations than sportscotland. I cannot remember them all, but the Scottish Association of Local Sports Councils and a few similar organisations often have a different point of view from that of sportscotland. It will be important to get a mix of opinions, particularly from grass-roots organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 104922,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that the integrated information strategy be taken out of the culture section. We might want to look at that separately. I asked a question on the strategy a week or so ago and was given the usual vague answer, but the Executive did say that it would come to the Parliament with some thoughts on the strategy by the middle of the autumn. The feeling from the profession is that we must get a move on with that. The end of the year is looming and that would have been the time for Scotland to set off into the next information century. I suggest that this is not a cultural issue, but one that stands alone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 104927,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add cultural tourism. It impinges a little on other committees, but coming from the Highlands as I do, I am convinced—I do not want to use unparliamentary language—that we can fleece the Yanks and the rest of the world when they come to Scotland. One thing that I would be keen on is a Highland clearances centre with a database. That could be replicated in many parts of Scotland. We have a tremendous product, and I am not sure that the tourism and education worlds are focused on its potential. This connects to what Cathy was saying. We must recognise that we are not only Loch Ness monsters or hey Jimmys—we are more diverse than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 104929,
      "EditedText": "Thank heavens."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 104930,
      "EditedText": "That is well said. I am aware that, while we have had a number of cultural briefings, we have not talked to the libraries, Historic Scotland or the National Trust for Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 104933,
      "EditedText": "The tourist boards used to have an events and festivals budget. I seem to remember that those budgets were removed when Highlands and Islands Enterprise and Scottish Enterprise were shaken up. It might be advisable to talk to people from those bodies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 104935,
      "EditedText": "That sounds like the best that we can do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 104942,
      "EditedText": "I assume that such trips are not meant to be done in the Westminster style, with pomp and ceremony and people wearing silver—I was going to say medals, but perhaps that would not have been a wise word. Could not we go in a minibus or something?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gillian Baxendine: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 104946,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 104950,
      "EditedText": "May I put an issue on the agenda for the next meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2777409+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 2132,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2132,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 104724,
      "EditedText": "I would like to raise a couple of points of order. I know that Mike Russell has already discussed this with the committee clerk, but he has asked me to raise formally the fact that he cannot come to meetings of this committee on Tuesday afternoons because the Parliamentary Bureau meets at the same time. However, he is aware of the difficulties of scheduling committee meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 104752,
      "EditedText": "We might know the result of the ballot, but there is an issue that stands alone and is not relevant solely to the current negotiations. I do not want to flog the point, but we should press ahead with that and discuss the state of the negotiations at our next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 104779,
      "EditedText": "With respect, I think that you misunderstand what is being said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 104800,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that. I imagine that this part of our debate will be structured with difficulty. For the next few months, the bill will form a major part of the committee's business and I hope that we will discuss whom we will take evidence from, because I have some ideas about that. The bill concentrates on some internal changes to the education system to improve Scottish education. However, when we consider the bill, we should also investigate areas that are outside the education system but impinge on educational achievement. Matters such as poverty, the state of school infrastructure, civic education and sustainability are already on our list. We have to examine improvements in Scottish education as a whole, rather than just the changes proposed in the bill; if we structure our discussions to reflect that, it might be easier to see our way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 104839,
      "EditedText": "But we have been told that it is a consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 104847,
      "EditedText": "Brian, can you spell consensus?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 104856,
      "EditedText": "I would like to add a few items, but before I go through them, I want to comment on the approach here. A fair representation of the issues came out of last week's meeting, but I am reluctant to see the committee define too closely the issues in the education bill that we think are important. I would rather approach it from the point of view of identifying the bodies, organisations or individuals that we would like to hear from; they may raise issues that we had not thought of. Any list of issues that we agree on now is not definitive. I would like to add to our list the matter of placing requests, which did not come out in the meeting last week, although it probably would have done if we had had more time. There is the issue of the Scottish Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff in School Education—which might be built into the bill at a later stage—and that of devolved school management, which is slightly more vague. I suggest that we take evidence from an expert in public law. A large part of the bill involves proposals to place duties on elected ministers and local authorities. Last week, we discussed how those duties should be defined and enforced—or, more appropriately, how the public enforces those duties. It would be interesting and instructive to hear the views of a public lawyer about how meaningful it is to say that the Minister for Children and Education is under a legal duty and whether that has any real meaning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 525
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme, Sub-committees and Travel",
      "HeadingID": 2133,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ID": 2133,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 104881,
      "EditedText": "That is a dangerous view to take. None of the organisations that I have listed could be described as pressure groups; they are representative organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 43,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 43,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andrew Welsh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 2693,
      "EditedText": "Before we start, please will committee members remain after the formal meeting is concluded. There are one or two internal housekeeping points to discuss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 2696,
      "EditedText": "I have taken advice from the clerk and the answer is yes, in broad terms, but not in detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 2699,
      "EditedText": "With respect, there are some things in part 1 that I think are in the remit of this committee. The Auditor General's salary is mentioned, for instance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 2701,
      "EditedText": "There has been full consultation through the financial issues advisory group process. Since then, the Executive has consulted further and some recommendations have come out of that process. We can rest assured that the people who have an interest in this have been widely consulted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 2702,
      "EditedText": "Is that generally agreed? It is.Is the committee satisfied with the general principle that there has been adequate public consultation on the bill? That is agreed.We now move to the policy memorandum. Are there any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 2707,
      "EditedText": "Brian, I direct your attention to paragraph 8(v) on page 9 of the policy memorandum. FIAG considered your point and shared some of your concerns.The paragraph says:\"Auditors should be able to suggest what indicators might be appropriate for a specific policy objective but . . . they should not be able to require organisations to use specific indicators as this would give auditors an unacceptable amount of influence over policy\".Therefore you have raised an important point.There is also an important point to be made about answerability to Parliament as opposed to through the media or through other methods, and I hope that ministers will respect the fact that such matters should be referred first to Parliament.Legitimate points about lack of clarity on return of capital and about local authority global sums should be addressed directly to the minister during stage 2. No doubt he will read the committee's proceedings and will take into account the points that have been raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 2711,
      "EditedText": "That is impressive. Mr Johnston has put down some interesting markers for stage 2. I am sure that the minister will note those concerns. The Finance Committee is approaching the Procedures Committee with a view to amending standing orders to make the subordinate financial legislation process more open and efficient, so obviously his views are shared by the Finance Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 2712,
      "EditedText": "It is useful for the committee to have notice of issues that members want to explore. In general terms and on broad principle, the bill seems to have paid heed to the consultation process that has been undertaken since the first draft appeared before us. The financial issues advisory group's recommendations have been translated into substantial legislative proposals. If we come back at stage 2 to discuss the concerns that have been raised, we should do so in that context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 2718,
      "EditedText": "Subject to that, I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 2721,
      "EditedText": "It is probably assumed that we would represent Parliament, but I agree with you.Does the committee agree with the general principle that there should be a system of a named principal accountable officer, and other named accountable officers, of the Scottish Administration, and that they should be answerable to Parliament? That is agreed.I think that it is important to add that they be answerable to Parliament for the Scottish Administration finances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 2723,
      "EditedText": "No, they are in the Scottish Executive. We are clarifying who those people are who are answerable for the auditing of the accounts. They will be named people who can be brought before this committee and be made answerable for their actions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 2726,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that in principle, as part of their remit, the Auditor General and Audit Scotland ought to pursue a proactive role in research and development in the audit field."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 2728,
      "EditedText": "That is a general principle as well. We should set out the stall at the beginning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Tuesday 14 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 43,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 43,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 2692,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 2700,
      "EditedText": "Where appropriate, yes, but we must take care.Can I have comments on the adequacy of public consultation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 2704,
      "EditedText": "You have raised an important point. Now that it is on record, the Scottish Executive can note your comments and I am sure that you will be able to raise the matter again at stage 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 44,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 2708,
      "EditedText": "I am worried to find that I agree with many of Mr Adam's comments. I do not want to stray into specific areas of the legislation, but we should re-examine the business of primary and secondary legislation that is mentioned in paragraph 8 of the policy memorandum. The minister could clarify why, as it says in paragraph 8(f):\"For technical reasons, provisions to allow for budget revisions to be dealt with by secondary legislation cannot be included in this Bill\".If we go to paragraph 8(j)—by the way, I am not just showing off that I have read the memorandum—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 44,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 2709,
      "EditedText": "No problem. Please do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 44,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 2713,
      "EditedText": "We should compliment FIAG, which certainly did its work in producing 82 recommendations. It is clear that the Executive has responded to FIAG's work, which has eased our burden on consultation.The final stage is to make some decisions. Does the committee agree with the general principle that there should be a single public sector audit service, staffed by existing NAO and Accounts Commission personnel? That is agreed.Does the committee agree with the general principle that there should be a single corporate body, which provides support and services for the Auditor General for Scotland and Accounts Commission? That is agreed.Does the committee agree with the general principle of a Scottish Commission for Public Audit, whose task it is to scrutinise the funding and audit of the Auditor General for Scotland—an auditor's auditor? That is agreed.Does the committee agree with the general principle that Scottish ministers should set the format for accounts to be produced by the Scottish Administration and other directly funded bodies, the format of accounts to be set in formal directions after consultation with Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 2714,
      "EditedText": "What does \"after consultation with Parliament\" mean? Does it mean after detailed consultation with the Finance Committee and the Audit Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 2715,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 2717,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 2722,
      "EditedText": "I apologise if I am being tiresome, but could we return to the former point for which you sought approval? We are being asked to agree that there should be named personnel in, I presume, the Audit Scotland office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 2725,
      "EditedText": "Does this committee agree with the general principle that a similar system of accountable officers be answerable to Parliament for the finances of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body? In other words, does the committee agree that the principle be extended to the SPCB? That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2730",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
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      "ContributionID": 2730,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 14:23."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2694",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 2694,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to this meeting of the Audit Committee to consider and report on the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill. May I remind members that stage 1 of the consideration of a bill has two parts. First, the general principles of the bill are considered and reported on by committees. Secondly, Parliament debates and agrees—or otherwise—those principles.The purpose of stage 1 is an overview of the bill, rather than a detailed examination of its principles. Members may wish, in general terms, to point to issues to which they intend to return at stage 2, but no amendments to the bill may be lodged until the completion of stage 1. I also point out that we cannot mention part 1 of the bill, as that is in the remit of our colleagues on the Finance Committee. Part 2 is dedicated to this committee.On a housekeeping note, we must take account of the views of our colleagues on the Finance Committee and on the Subordinate Legislation Committee. I am informed that their reports will be to hand shortly. I believe that at its meeting this morning the Finance Committee broadly welcomed the principles of the bill. I suggest that we request that the clerk draws together the comments of our colleagues on those committees and circulates them to us. That will allow us to complete this part of the process. Is that agreed? It is agreed.I propose to divide the meeting into three sections. First, I would like to consider whether there has been adequate public consultation. Secondly, I would like to allow detailed discussion on the principles of the policy memorandum and, thirdly, I would like to have a decision-making section.First, then, I ask for your comments on the adequacy of public consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 44,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 2695,
      "EditedText": "I have a point of information. In your remarks, you said that we cannot discuss part 1, which is in the remit of the Finance Committee. Can we discuss the policy memorandum as it relates to part 1?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 2697,
      "EditedText": "In broad terms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
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      "ID": 44,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 2698,
      "EditedText": "I remind members that, in the same way that the Finance Committee members were careful not to stray into our remit, we must respect theirs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 2703,
      "EditedText": "I am looking at policy objectives and I have listened to your remarks about it not being within our remit to comment on part 1 of the bill. However, I am concerned that the bill, in broad audit terms, will still not embrace local authorities, which, as I understand it, will continue to be audited by the Accounts Commission.Given the allocation of spending by Scottish local authorities, which is currently about £6.4 billion, it seems a peculiar anomaly that we and our colleagues in the Finance Committee should spend a lot of time considering the bill and its ancillary documentation, despite the fact that the Parliament has no control over that area of spending. My understanding of the technical position is that the accounts that are audited by the Accounts Commission are not laid before Parliament, and I am concerned about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 2705,
      "EditedText": "I am grateful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
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      "ID": 44,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 2706,
      "EditedText": "I understand the issue that Annabel Goldie raised about the separation of powers. However, it is unfortunate that, under devolution, we have made no progress on ministerial responsibility for local authority expenditure. It seems that, in audit terms, local authorities will not be accountable to Parliament.It would be worth examining the global sums involved, but we must recognise that local authorities have their own mandates and that the separation exists for a reason. It is nevertheless an issue that should be explored further, and it would be interesting to hear what the Minister for Finance has to say about accountability to Parliament, at least for the overall position.I have a couple of other points to make, and I hope that, if I stray into inappropriate territory, I will be guided by the convener.The purpose of audit is to ensure that there is clarity and openness in financial dealings and to provide mechanisms for doing that. The bill refers to the Keeper of the Registers of Scotland and to the percentage return on capital, which applies across a range of areas. In the past, there has been a lack of clarity and openness about moneys related to the return on capital, especially when money has been recycled in the health service and targets have been set for efficiency savings. It is not clear whether such moneys are new or recycled, and the Audit Committee should be open about what is being done with the public pound. I would like to hear how the minister would deal with that, and the bill provides an opportunity to ask him about those areas of expenditure.Another semi-negative point is the issue of the expenditure of contingency funds. Although, in every other area, the money in the Scottish Consolidated Fund is earmarked for a particular purpose, that is not the case with contingency funds. Emergency needs have to be met, but the new Parliament must make ministers as accountable as possible. Although the policy memorandum says that ministers should bring the matter before Parliament as soon as possible, in another place people have been offended by new initiatives and emergency measures being announced outside Parliament. I hope that, as part of the process of proper accounting and accountability, such announcements will be dealt with in the Parliament and perhaps the minister will address the issue with regard to the bill. The bill should not hogtie the minister, but make him accountable to Parliament.On a more positive note, the memorandum refers to the development of performance indicators. I feel strongly that we should encourage, or write into the bill, a proactive role in research and development for Audit Scotland and the Auditor General. That feeling was reinforced by the interesting interviews that we had with the candidates for the post of Auditor General for Scotland. The Auditor General and Audit Scotland should be at the cutting edge of making best practice, instead of following it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
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      "ID": 44,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 2710,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 8(j) says:\"The Budget Acts will set the Parliamentary controls at Departmental level\".That would stop the transfer of funds between health and education. I would be happier if that were more tightly controlled.The Finance Committee is considering the format of the accounts this morning, so I will leave that until a later date. On paragraph 8(m) about the transfer of staff from the National Audit Office and Accounts Commission, we should ensure that the two processes are contiguous; in other words, take place at the same time. We broadly welcome paragraphs 8(o), (p) and (s), which bring various public bodies into the realms of public audit, specifically the Scottish Further Education Funding Council and the national health service.I have great concern about section 21(3) and (4) of the bill. Those set out the competency of the Auditor General for Scotland and state that he is only competent to examine bodies that have more than half their funds provided from the public purse. If a public body receives 49 per cent of its funds from the public purse and 51 per cent from private means, that is still a lot of money from the public purse. Like Brian, I will move on to paragraph 8(v) and ask, who will validate the targets? Never mind validating the outcomes, how do we make sure that the targets are valid?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 2716,
      "EditedText": "So we would be privy to the proposed layout of the accounts and have an opportunity to make clear our view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 2719,
      "EditedText": "I certainly would not agree to the principle if that were not so. I share your view."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 2720,
      "EditedText": "In order to clarify that point, perhaps it should read, \"in consultation with Parliament and its committees\". I agree with the point that Annabel was making, that if it only says \"Parliament\", it could just mean plenary session. It would be helpful to have that in the minute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 2724,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for clarifying that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 2727,
      "EditedText": "We are considering the general principles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 14 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 14
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-14T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1",
      "HeadingID": 44,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 2729,
      "EditedText": "You raise an important point, but I suggest that it should be left until stage 2, and be raised as a possible amendment to the bill, which would allow it to be discussed properly. We are looking at the policy memorandum and the recommendations put forward by it. Your proposal is perfectly reasonable but should be raised at stage 2. No doubt the ministers will take note of what you have said.The last question is, does this committee agree with the general principles as set out in the policy memorandum? That is agreed.We have gone through the business at a reasonable pace and I thank members for their assistance in that. I would also like to thank our colleagues on the Finance Committee and on the Subordinate Legislation Committee for their assistance and views. I formally bring these proceedings to a close."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.967514+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 665090,
      "EditedText": "Secondary legislation is no less important and a raft of it will come through over the next couple of years. You may want to plug that into the programme for discussion, but it is important at the moment that we focus on the key elements of the legislative programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 665092,
      "EditedText": "I can give you the topics that we anticipate will come up. That will help you to set a timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 665094,
      "EditedText": "On my right is Sandy Cameron, who works on the environment aspect of my brief. On my left is John Martin, who works on transport and planning. On his left is Neil MacLennan, who is my private secretary. If you want to get in touch with me, it is best to go through Neil."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 665112,
      "EditedText": "In the legislation that we introduce on bus quality partnerships and contracts, we will try to get local authorities and public transport operators to identify key services and priorities. Local authorities will have the opportunity to develop partnerships, with contracts as a backstop. That will concentrate the minds of the bus companies and the bus operators. We want people to try to work in partnership. We will set up a statutory mechanism for bus quality partnerships, which will create a more level playing field for the bus companies and enable the local authorities to engage the bus companies in a more focused, constructive debate. Local authorities will be able to examine through-ticketing and timetabling and the provision of services across the authority. The current approach is rather sporadic; I hope that the partnership approach will enable a proper discussion of what each side wants and can provide. We need to adopt an approach whereby the authorities can talk to the bus companies and, similarly, the bus companies can engage with the authorities. Why are we consulting on road user charging? When I spoke about our transport policies, I tried to convey the range of mechanisms that exist—the regional transport partnerships, the local transport strategies and our national approach to transport. We are thinking about the range of mechanisms that we need in order to tackle our key transport problems, such as integration, air quality and environmental issues, and the social links with transport. As part of that, we are hugely aware of the need to invest in transport and to tackle congestion. The figures for traffic congestion during the next 30 years show a 50 per cent increase in traffic. We cannot sustain that. We must improve the quality of our public transport so that it is world-class. We also need to improve the quality of our roads. To do that we need more investment. Murray's question about the strategic roads review always concentrates minds. How much money do we have to invest in transport? Do we have enough? One of our key reasons for consulting on road user charging is that we need more investment in transport. At the same time, we need to ensure that we tackle congestion. The days of predict and provide under the previous Administration—of building roads without thinking about how they fitted into a wider transport strategy—have gone. That is not to say that new roads are not part of the agenda; it is to say that they must be part of a wider approach to public transport investment. That is where road user charging fits in. We must consider revenue investment and how we tackle the projected long-term increase in traffic growth. That is why we are considering three elements in the consultation paper. First, workplace parking levies would be an enabling power for local authorities; they would allow local authorities to raise money locally and to invest it locally in transport. Secondly, local authorities could present us with a package on congestion charging around our cities. The local authority would have to identify how the money was raised, identify the intended use, give a timetable and demonstrate that it had consulted local communities and local interests, such as the business community. Both those options would take the form of enabling legislation so that local authorities could present us with packages and proposals. The authority would need to be clear about issues such as modal shift: to what extent would its package encourage people to move from the private car to the different modes of public transport? Local authorities would have to establish that with the whole range of local interest groups.In the third element of consultation—on trunk road and motorway charging—the Scottish Executive would consider the same issues: traffic congestion, the use of the roads network and long-term impact. The key thing in our consultation paper is that we are asking people for their views on the three main elements. The approach to trunk road charging would be the same as at the local level. The Scottish Executive would develop and justify packages. It would identify key stretches of routes, identify how much money would be raised and where it would be spent, develop a timetable and consult widely. We have suggested a number of options, such as traffic orders and local public inquiries. It is important to stress that, before any decisions are taken on whether we should develop those key elements in legislation, there will be robust consultation involving local authorities, businesses, individuals and all the other relevant interest groups. The consultation period closes at the end of this month and I am keen to receive comments on the principles of what we are trying to do and ideas on how we might take proposals forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 665114,
      "EditedText": "There was also the health issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 665118,
      "EditedText": "There is a lot to respond to there.I agree that transport policy needs to relate to other areas of Government interest. That is why the strategic roads review includes economic and access issues.In taking forward discussions on tackling congestion, I have been keen to meet the business community and find out its agenda for transport. It is important that we think across boundaries. When I talked about sustainable development, I was thinking of social, economic and environmental development. It is important that we achieve joined-up thinking.Access and economic issues are important. Through our investment in rail, the public transport fund for bus and rail, and our investment in and maintenance of our roads network, we have to meet the needs of local business people.It is our intention that a professional regulator will scrutinise the water authorities to high environmental standards, and will consider charging policies. The professional regulator will be there for the customers—for the people who use water services.I regard trans-European networks as hugely important. I hope to take them forward with my colleagues in Europe. I decline to comment on Eurostar as it is currently the subject of court action with Strathclyde passenger transport executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 665120,
      "EditedText": "As part of the UK, we have a responsibility to meet our environmental commitments and the Kyoto targets. The use of fuel is a key issue.As transport minister, my principal concern is to ensure that we can mitigate the effects of the fuel tax escalator, particularly in rural areas. We do that through the rural transport fund, by supporting rural petrol stations, and by ensuring that people in rural areas have choices. However, we recognise that, for many people in rural areas, the car is the key mode of transport.The Office of Fair Trading is taking a keen interest in fuel costs in the Highlands, and we await a report on that. Keeping local petrol stations open so that people have access to petrol is one way of supporting rural motorists. Accessibility is an issue that we are bearing in mind when considering our long-term planning strategy. Government can play a constructive role in a number of ways."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25710,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 25710,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andy Kerr): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 665082,
      "EditedText": "I welcome members and those in the public gallery—a mixture of the public, interested parties and the press—to the second meeting of the Transport and the Environment Committee. We have the pleasure of having the Minister for Transport and the Environment with us this morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 25711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 665083,
      "EditedText": "The first item of business is the declaration of interests. I invite Des McNulty to do so—he missed the opportunity to declare his interests at the first meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 665087,
      "EditedText": "It might be better to cover the legislative programme now, so that we can get an idea of the full scope of the Executive's plans."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 665089,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I would prefer that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 665091,
      "EditedText": "Are you in a position to send us the detail of the secondary legislation now?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 665093,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that wide-ranging presentation. Your constructive approach to the way in which we will work together is welcome. As you have set out the tasks that the Executive is taking on and the targets that it has set, we can carry out our role in examining what the Executive is doing. What you have said also helps us to devise our work programme, which is on the agenda today. Will you introduce the rest of your team? After that, I can invite the committee to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 665100,
      "EditedText": "I have a number of questions for you, minister. First, can I plead for some simplicity in designations? Anyone who works in this field knows that it is inundated at the moment. We do not need to create yet another tier; we need to simplify the process and make it more understandable within the context of involving local people more.I am often consulted about listed buildings with regard to building control. At the moment, we have a requirement to impose a high standard of refurbishment material, depending on the classification of the building. Invariably, that does not coincide with the requirements of effective insulation. We need to look at how we list buildings and how we then retain heat within them. Sometimes the regulations mean that refurbished buildings cannot be used economically. For example, there is a requirement for single-glazed windows. How will the complaints procedure work with regard to passenger transport executives and the integrated public transport timetable? For example, British Airways—if I understood you correctly—will be part of the timetable because it will list all public transport services. Last week, BA cut—just like that—two rotations out of one route in the Highlands and Islands. There was no consultation with the local communities affected. BA took a commercial decision but, with a national public transport timetable, the Executive or the Parliament could become the focus of complaints by the local community. I would be interested to know how that would work. More to the point, does the minister see the merits of passenger transport executives—whose principal role would be to consider matters such as complaints procedure—in areas such as the Highlands and Islands?I took the point about vigorously supporting Scottish interests in reserved matters, and I appreciate the comments about fuel, which is a crucial issue for rural areas. How does the minister think the issue will be addressed in the context of the submission on the Executive's budget? Those of us who represent rural areas, and people right across Scotland, have a different perspective on the issue from the one that is being taken at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665106",
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      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 665106,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Do you have any comments on the education bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 665110,
      "EditedText": "That is interesting enough, thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 665111,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the overground initiative, Sarah, which includes buses, integrated services and through-ticketing. I welcome any integrated transport initiative, but one of the downsides of the overground has been the withdrawal of some services. Under the deregulation rules, that can happen without notice. What safeguards does the minister suggest that we consider for the bus industry in the future?Will the minister explain why the Government is considering road user charging? What measures are being taken to keep the Parliament informed about the issue?The minister mentioned that she was cross-cutting with almost all other areas of the Government and that is very welcome. Robin referred to education; I want to ask about health. What cross-cutting measures has she discussed with the Minister for Health and Community Care to tackle poor air quality, a problem that she mentioned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 665121,
      "EditedText": "Has the minister made representations to the Chancellor of the Exchequer regarding the increase in the fuel duty escalator in addition to the market force increase?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 665125,
      "EditedText": "I realise that the minister has other business to deal with. With the agreement of the committee, I will bring this part of the proceedings to a close. As people have said, our discussion has been interesting and exciting and we have covered issues that will have an effect on people's lives. I thank the minister for coming along and I am sure that we will continue our constructive engagement in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statutory Instrument",
      "HeadingID": 25713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 665127,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is  consideration of  statutory instrument SSI 1999/1, the Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999, which was laid on 9 July and is subject to annulment until 9 October. The committee might decide that its contents are acceptable or it might want to seek further information and consider it on 22 September. Members have the report from the Subordinate Legislation Committee, which recommends that the attention of the Parliament should not be drawn to the instrument, and we understand that the European Committee will consider the item on 14 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statutory Instrument",
      "HeadingID": 25713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 665134,
      "EditedText": "Will we be reissued with the report in the next set of committee papers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statutory Instrument",
      "HeadingID": 25713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 665137,
      "EditedText": "We can arrange that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 665147,
      "EditedText": "I agree with your suggestion, convener. The residents' complaint mostly centres on the initial planning decision. However, because of our work load, we cannot realistically revisit every planning decision that people throughout Scotland do not agree with. We can examine whether the regulatory authorities are doing their work properly, which is an important distinction to draw."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25714,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 665148,
      "EditedText": "We will discuss our work load. If we take on too many issues we will not make progress on the areas that we have identified as priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 665156,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Murray.The last petition is PE8 and comes from the Scottish Homing Union. It is \"on the impact of the number of birds of prey on the sport of pigeon racing\".I can advise members that the Rural Affairs Committee deferred further decision on the petition pending further research by SPICe which, for those in the public gallery, is the Parliament's information centre, and on the report by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions and on raptor predation research—easy for me to say.In short, research is going on as we speak, but it has not yet been published. It would perhaps be better to wait for that research to be published and then to revisit the petition. The clerks have circulated a second document, from the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, which gives some further detail on the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25714,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 665157,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what you say, but can we also approach the Scottish Homing Union to ask about any research that might have been done into how pigeons can be made less attractive to predators, so to speak?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 665162,
      "EditedText": "At the end of this meeting, the clerk will confirm to the petitioners in writing what we have agreed to do with their petitions. I would like to thank those organisations for sending their petitions and for playing their part in the democratic process in the Scottish Parliament. As I said earlier, it is a welcome innovation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 665163,
      "EditedText": "Members will have understood, from Sarah's comments, the Executive's perspective on our work programme. We know the legislation that it is introducing. We also know the issues on which, even if there is no legislation, action is being taken, which is another important facet of the Executive's work.Our first meeting, in June, was fairly extensive and we went through our areas of interest. It was followed by our two-day informal briefing session at which we heard presentations from a number of key organisations and people. We then had a fairly detailed discussion of the committee's priorities. I want your views on that, after which I will commission the clerks to draw up a work programme for the committee. I would like to plan the next four months or so of committee work, bearing in mind the impact on our agenda of the legislation that Sarah told us about. In that way, we will not just discuss issues; we will deal with issues and get to the meat of what this committee is about.The five issues that we discussed at our two-day briefing meeting were: mobile phone masts; fuel; landfill tax; the bus industry—in rural areas in particular; and small to medium enterprises and the environment. From those items we could select some for early action, getting the clerks to invite people to give advice to the committee and do further research that we can then develop. I want your views on what our agenda should be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 665166,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we should continue to watch developments in telecommunications masts. I was delighted to hear that the minister will present proposals on that issue. I also look forward to an answer to my written question on the matter, which I lodged some time ago. I have a couple of suggestions about how we might tackle the issue of buses. Rural transport and concessionary fares are critical. If we are to scrutinise the proposals properly, we need to begin to think about taking evidence from some of the user organisations, transport unions and service providers. That will give us an early indication of what the problems are so that we can avoid some of the pitfalls and ensure that we get a properly integrated transport system, which is what we all want. Early on, I would like to see a suggested list of the people and organisations from whom we should take evidence. It may also be helpful for those of us who have not dealt with this matter to any great extent in the past to have a briefing on the operation of concessionary fares across Scotland and on the new proposals so that we can consider the issue in more detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 25715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 665168,
      "EditedText": "I am comfortable with the proposal to consider the issue of buses, especially as there are aspects of the requirements set out by the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee—on access to buses for people with disabilities and mothers with young children—that have particular implications for rural Scotland. There are issues to do with the types of bus that can be used and whether they can get on rural roads. It would be important to consider those aspects as part of an inquiry. I also want to put down a strong marker for the issue of fuel research. We need to examine certain bits of the package being promoted by the Executive, such as investment in fuel stations and infrastructure, and their effectiveness in helping rural areas. We also need to be as proactive as possible in encouraging the Office of Fair Trading to get on and do proper work on oil companies. That should be a matter of urgency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 25715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 665169,
      "EditedText": "I am anxious that the debate on buses should not be confined to issues affecting rural areas, as there are a lot of bus transport issues in urban areas too, including the regulation and administration of subsidised services. The discussion needs to be broad and wide ranging. There is a danger of this committee simply responding to what the Executive says. It is important that we work in parallel. On some subjects, particularly regulatory issues, it may be helpful to have briefings in anticipation of the Executive's proposals. For example, we should not wait for an announcement on the quality partnerships before we consider them. Other areas, such as the strategic roads review, can also be identified where such briefings may be helpful. I was particularly interested in the minister's statement on the regulatory framework for water, which we will need to get some kind of briefing on, as an announcement is likely in the next three or four months.I support the arguments in favour of the topics for consideration, but we should also be prepared to anticipate announcements—developments in the regulatory framework, in particular—so that the committee is up to speed on the issues and is able to contribute to the debate, rather than respond to decisions once they are made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 25715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 665172,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Kenny, for mentioning two of the things dearest to my heart. I would like to draw the committee's attention to the fact that I have re-submitted my motion on the planting of GM crops. The UK and Scotland are far behind on notions of the reduction and recycling of industrial and household waste. That is something, along with the landfill tax, that we should include at the earliest opportunity—in the spirit of Des's announcement that we do not have to wait for an announcement from the Executive. I realise that we are in danger of overloading ourselves with work. It may be that the next thing we need to do is prioritise the issues that we have mentioned. I would like to see a start on the two that I have mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 25715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 665175,
      "EditedText": "There is a hierarchy of demands on the committee, which we will address in a work plan and discuss at the committee. Today, the five issues that were discussed at the two-day briefing have been brought to the fore, along with some additional matters. My view is that we should deal with existing demands before programming in the other activities that have been suggested. Does that sound reasonable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ID": 25716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 665181,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:54."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 665097,
      "EditedText": "The scheme is separate. We intend to introduce it by the end of the year. We have brought together the operators and the key interest groups, including the National League of the Blind and Disabled and other disability groups. I do not want to delay the implementation of the scheme by letting it get caught up in the legislation on integrated transport."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 665103,
      "EditedText": "Our general interest is to promote effective use of the money that we have provided for rural transport through the rural transport fund—there will be £14 million over the next three years—which will enable us to consider rural bus services, community transport and extending the life of rural petrol stations. Those are the three key elements for improving rural transport.We are suggesting to local authorities that they identify key routes where rural bus services should be supported. We have tried to encourage them to use the rural transport fund to that end. A large number of new bus services in Scotland have been set up via the fund.The other way in which we can assist rural transport is through the legislation on integrated transport. Bus quality partnerships and bus quality contracts are key mechanisms that will allow local authorities to sit down with local bus companies, discuss the appropriate level of services and identify key areas. They will be able to look to the long term and work together. At the moment, local authorities are providing examples of good practice and the rural transport fund is allowing them to do more to provide services. However, we hope that co-ordination and certainty about services will come through bus quality partnerships and the option of bus quality contracts.Cathy mentioned cross-cutting work, which is a key issue for the Scottish Executive and for agencies working together at a local level, such as health boards. It is also important for local authorities, which have to link their school budgets with their transport budgets in funding subsidised bus services. Local authorities are doing a lot of creative and innovative work in making the best use of the infrastructure that they must provide. I was most impressed with school services in a couple of authorities that I visited this summer—the school budgets and the transport budgets were linked to ensure the best use of efficient infrastructure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 665122,
      "EditedText": "We will consider what we can do about that, but I have not been consulted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. During the past few months, we have consulted UK Government departments, but that has not been one of the issues that we have discussed. The money that comes in through the fuel duty escalator comes back to Scotland. It is spent on investment in health and in education.We have to consider taxation. We have one of the lowest rates of income tax in Europe as well as the lowest rate of corporation tax. Taxation is a hugely complex issue and a reserved matter, but it is something in which the Scottish Executive takes an interest. We are particularly interested in how we can benefit rural areas through the work of the Scottish Parliament.There were a couple of questions about the benefits of congestion charging. I stress that the consultation paper concentrates on the principles. To make estimates about specific schemes, we would have to have access to the packages that deal with modal split, diversion issues and the areas in which there would be congestion charges or tolls. We are not yet at that stage.We know what the big picture is and we expect a 50 per cent increase in traffic over the next 30 years. Legislation will enable local authorities that are experiencing severe congestion to do the calculations, to work out the costs and benefits to local people, and to do so in a transparent way. When they have done that, we will look at road traffic reduction targets, at congestion problems and modal split, and at diversion issues.All those things are mentioned in the consultation paper, but the facts and figures can be developed only when the schemes are on the ground. The same would be true of any road charging scheme. The package must be in front of us before the specific impact of a scheme can be estimated. We will only be able to take forward individual schemes when we reach the stage of deciding what will go into legislation.I want to make that point strongly, in relation to both local congestion charging and trunk road charging. The key estimates of costs and investigation of traffic diversion issues must be part of a package. In approving any scheme, Scottish ministers must be satisfied that those calculations have been done correctly. Ministers must also know from consultation that they will be able to win support for schemes. We are a long way from that stage and at the moment we are examining key principles.I will move on to the question about electronic methods. We recognise that any form of trunk road charging or congestion charging that we consider must be efficient and fair. There is no point in introducing measures that will further clog up the road system. That is a key principle.One of the reasons for the Hermiston Gait electronic testing project is examination of the technology. We know about smart card technology, but we need to see whether it works and we must look at the circumstances particular to Scotland. That is why during the summer I announced the test, which will allow us to examine the local congestion issue and the trunk road issue. Hermiston Gait is ideal for examination of both those issues.We are examining the possibility of electronic charging, but there is also the possibility that a system of paper disks will be used. We are looking at the options. The consultation paper gives people the opportunity to say what they think of those ideas. We will only be able to assess costs when we have done the testing. The equipment we are testing is new. Other European countries have paper-based systems, but we want to find out what would be appropriate for Scotland, and that is why we are doing the testing, Kenny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 25711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 665084,
      "EditedText": "The only relevant interest that I declare is that I am deputy chair and a board member of the Wise Group, which is a non-profit organisation that specialises in bringing long-term unemployed people back into the work force. It engages in environmental improvement work. If a clash of interests arises, I will notify the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 665098,
      "EditedText": "I thank the minister for her excellent exposition; it was quite a tour de force.The timetable on transport is pivotal. It is no good expecting people to catch the bus if they do not know when it leaves. Reliable and accessible information on that basic detail is vital. We should encourage people to use trains. When we come to renegotiate the franchising, we should change the balance, which has been towards journey times rather than passenger numbers. We should consider how, for rail companies, it can be made more important to attract passengers than to arrive on time—passengers are sometimes seen as a barrier to arriving on time. We have talked about considering energy conservation in relation to planning and building standards. Another aspect of building standards regulation is accessibility—making all new build barrier free. Finally, we need to look at how we use the Parliament's purchasing power to encourage better waste management. For example, how much of the paper used in the Parliament is recycled?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 665115,
      "EditedText": "Sorry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 665123,
      "EditedText": "We have raised a wide range of issues with you, minister, though not strategic issues. They have been more specific. I would like some indication of what advice the Executive will give to authorities about mobile phone masts. There are, as you know, some concerns about the health implications of those masts in relation to low-emission radiation.Are organisations steering us as to how individuals can fit into what is a technical planning process? That can affect people's personal daily lives in terms of where they live in relation to large developments. People sometimes find it very difficult to relate to the planning process and to represent themselves at planning inquiries, and so on.Does the Executive have any views on those matters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statutory Instrument",
      "HeadingID": 25713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 25713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 665130,
      "EditedText": "I support what Murray said. If we are to scrutinise the instrument, we need a brief that helps us understand it. I wonder if members of the Subordinate Legislation Committee were given a brief or if they had to plough through the whole document without an informal briefing. It is important to lay down a marker to the Executive. We should request of the Executive that such documents are accompanied by a simple explanatory document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statutory Instrument",
      "HeadingID": 25713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 25713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 665132,
      "EditedText": "I wish to support my colleagues in seeking more information. My understanding is that there would be time to consider this matter at a future meeting, and presumably there would be no difficulty in having a short brief. Last night, I got to page 54, marking a number of questions where I felt I needed more information, when I realised that perhaps that was not the best approach to take and that there might be a quicker way to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 665140,
      "EditedText": "I come from that part of the world, and I must declare an interest because I signed a motion supporting this issue in the Parliament. Can we do anything else at this stage, or do we need to follow the route that Murray suggested, and await the outcome of the strategic roads review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 665141,
      "EditedText": "Bearing in mind the fact that according to the minister the roads review will be published soon, there would be little point pursuing the issue at this time. Of course, we can revisit the issue once the review has been published. That would allow us to pursue Murray's suggested course of action and forward the petition to the Executive, but also to retain the matter on our agenda for discussion after the review has been published."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 665143,
      "EditedText": "I was more sympathetic towards the point about noting the issue for revisiting. I do not see any merit in remitting the issue to the Executive, which will have its own position. We should indicate to Ayrshire chamber of commerce that the committee will revisit its petition when the trunk roads review is issued. We are not shelving the petition for years, but probably for a matter of months, even though we have not received a specific timetable from the minister. We should politely recognise the importance of the petition and indicate that we will consider those views when we come to discuss the strategic trunk road review as a whole."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 665145,
      "EditedText": "The petition should be submitted to the Executive. Our responsibility as parliamentarians is to spread information as widely as we can. It is then down to MSPs to decide what weight to give to that information, because we have to bear in mind that every MSP will have issues pressing from the areas that he or she represents. As Des said, do we go back to those areas and whip up a frenzy of people submitting petitions? People have put effort into this petition and I do not want the committee to sit on its contents. We need to share the information with other people so that they can make an informed decision about the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 665146,
      "EditedText": "I think that we have a consensus on this matter. We will forward the petition to the Executive and revisit the issue when the strategic trunk roads review is published.The next petition is petition PE3 from the Hospitalfield Area Residents' Association about the effect of commercial oil seed rape crushing on the health of that area's residents. Having read the association's well-structured briefing note, I think that the two focal points of the matter are the Scottish Environment Protection Agency's view and the view of the local authority. Should we take further advice from SEPA and the local authority on what led them to make the decisions that have since led to the company getting consent for its development and to the petition being presented to the committee? I am sure that other issues will be brought to my attention during our discussion, but is that a good way of progressing the matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 665149,
      "EditedText": "What Murray says is sound, but I wish to enter a caveat. You raised the issue of mobile phones, convener. That is a legitimate concern for us because it touches on health matters. In connection with the matter of oil seed rape, I would like this committee always to bear wider health issues in mind. Allowing things to go ahead in a planning or environmental context can sometimes have an impact on people's health in years to come."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 665151,
      "EditedText": "Approaching SEPA and the local authority appears eminently sensible. We want issues not only to be raised, but to be seen on a broader base. We should ask the local authority and SEPA to comment on how we can address the individual matter and the broader issue. I appreciate that our time and scope for action are limited, but if SEPA says that a matter is not isolated and is arising all over Scotland, we may care to take its advice on board and accelerate the issue up the agenda. We should ask the organisations you correctly targeted, convener, and invite them to comment on individual matters and on whether they think the committee should examine any further issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 665155,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would be appropriate for us to advise the City of Edinburgh Council formally that the concerns have been expressed to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 665160,
      "EditedText": "I would not have thought so, because we will end up going round and round. It would be better to proceed on the information that we get from SPICe and the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 665161,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to make a similar point. A lot of us have received a lot of representations on the matter, and it would be appropriate to deal with them later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 25715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 665167,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that we can do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 25715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 665171,
      "EditedText": "If we are zeroing in on buses and bus services, should we also look at types of buses—for example, gas buses, alternative fuel buses and low-floor buses? We could also liaise with the Equal Opportunities Committee because it will be doing work on access for people with various forms of disability. Some of that work would benefit our discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 25710,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 665081,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:05"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 665085,
      "EditedText": "After that formal item of business, I welcome Sarah Boyack, the Minister for Transport and the Environment. We are glad to have her here today; at this formative stage of the committee's development, it is useful to have the views of the Executive. We have asked Sarah to outline the Executive's priorities for transport and the environment and to tell us the proposals that will be implemented. As we have before us a petition about the A77, I should be glad if the minister touched on the strategic roads review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 665095,
      "EditedText": "We met Sandy and John during the two-day briefing session, at which we met a number of people—it is useful to refresh our memories."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 665096,
      "EditedText": "In your statement, minister, you mentioned a voluntary scheme for free travel for blind people, which is welcome. In the context of the planned changes in the bus sector, can the arrangements for introducing the scheme be combined with the quality partnerships and quality contracts, or is there a separate arrangement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 665102,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pick up on some of the issues that have been raised, particularly transport in rural communities. I am glad that fuel pricing has been mentioned. One problem that people in rural communities face is a lack of certainty about the availability of bus services. The recent proposals to withdraw services from rural areas in Lanarkshire and Ayrshire will have a huge effect on communities there. People feel that there is no way for them to influence decisions.Can the minister say a bit more about how people can become involved in the process? What will the consultation process involve, and what can we do to ensure that vital lifeline services are protected? This is a cross-cutting issue that affects access to health, education and other facilities.I was interested to hear the minister mention community transport. Could she say a bit more about how she intends to develop that? I will leave it at that for the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 665104,
      "EditedText": "It is exciting to see the extent to which power has been devolved to the Parliament in terms of the environment and I welcome the broad thrust of the minister's presentation. On farming, the minister said that dialogue and best practice were the best ways in which to control run-off from farms, which is the major pollutant of our rivers. I suggest that additional resources and a change in the way in which farming is supported in this country might be other ways forward, both through the European Parliament and through the Rural Affairs Committee. We should support agri-environment and organic schemes in Scotland to a much greater extent. Such schemes are seriously under-resourced and we lag behind England and Wales in that respect. On sites of special scientific interest, I acknowledge that it may be necessary to rework the way in which we look at nature conservation in Scotland, an issue that falls within our powers. In the same breath, I should say that I am slightly worried about the fact that we heard mention of denotification of SSSIs. I want an assurance that that will be done in a clearly delineated way. Will the Executive produce long-term plans for the development and—I hope—the extension of the rail network in Scotland? Finally, will the transport and the environment department and the education department undertake cross-cutting work at this stage on the education bill that is going through Parliament, or will that be left to a later date?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 665108,
      "EditedText": "In the minister's summary of her department's work, she did not mention the strategic roads review, which has attracted a lot of interest over the past year. I will not press her for details at this stage, but will she say when she will be able to make an announcement? She will be aware that the projection of funding does not offer scope for much of the review to be implemented. Will she be able to announce increased funding?As committee members, we hear a lot from the railway industry about extending the existing franchises. A lobby is developing that says that the key to encouraging maximum investment over the next two or three years is to let companies know whether they can expect their franchises to be extended. Again, the minister cannot answer in detail about decisions that are still to be made, but does the Government have an attitude, in principle, on renegotiating existing franchises for further periods?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 665113,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Sarah."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 665117,
      "EditedText": "The work that you are doing is really exciting. Many people have not appreciated that we have a great opportunity to reshape the world around us.I welcomed what you said about overlapping—you used the word cross-cutting—responsibility with other ministers. I am sure that you meant to mention economic issues, as well as social and health factors. In developing transport policy, I hope that the issues that are related to congestion in cities across Scotland will be recognised, including the problems of economic access for rural and semi-rural areas. Fife, for example, has the third highest level of unemployment in Scotland. An illustration of the impediments that are faced by industry in Fife is that it cost the company that did the joinery work in the Parliament chamber more than £2,000 in road tolls alone to come into Edinburgh to do that work.We have a responsibility to address jobs and unemployment as well. I hope that that will feature in the paper that you eventually present to the Parliament.I welcome your statement about the water commissioner. In cases that I have dealt with the attitude has been, \"See you in court.\" I hope that having a water commissioner will change that, and that the water commissioner will offer a kind of court of appeal.My final question is on trans-European networks. You talked about your work on Eurostar links. It was always stated—I believe as a legal commitment—that there would be a Eurostar link to Scotland, but that has not happened yet. What are your views on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 665119,
      "EditedText": "You said that fuel and vehicle taxation were reserved matters, but that you would liaise with UK ministers. We are facing a 20p increase in the price of petrol at the pumps due to the doubling of the price of oil and the 6 per cent increase from the fuel duty escalator. What is your view on the fuel duty escalator? What representations have you made to the Chancellor of the Exchequer about a 6 per cent increase that is in addition to the 20p increase that will shortly come the way of Scottish motorists and the Scottish business community? The second matter relates to your comments on congestion, which you said was one of the reasons for suggesting road tolls. I refer you to the parliamentary question that was answered on 24 August 1999. The Executive was asked what reduction in car journeys was estimated as a result of the proposed road toll schemes. The answer, and I paraphrase, was that it would depend on the nature of the scheme that was implemented.Is the minister suggesting that the Executive has embarked on the scheme with no target for the level of reduction that it wants to achieve and with no evidence as to whether tolling would achieve reduction at all? If so, are not road tolls simply a way of raising revenue for the Executive?My third question relates to page 33 of the consultation document. Paragraph 5.10 indicates that charging on the trunk road network would most likely be done electronically. What is the likely cost of installing the electronic equipment, and who will pick up the tab—drivers of commercial vehicles, or private individuals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statutory Instrument",
      "HeadingID": 25713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 25713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 665128,
      "EditedText": "We should lay down a marker to the Executive about how we want matters of this nature to be presented to us. We have been given a 112-page technical document, full of valuable information which is largely incomprehensible to the members of the committee, and an elegantly worded but opaque analysis of what the regulations mean. We are told that the regulations include more projects, but we are not told which ones; neither are we told what the scope of the regulations is or how the regulations differ from the previous ones. We are told that the new regulations clarify the use of thresholds, but we are not told the way in which they do so. References, such as the one to scoping, are not clearly defined. I find the brief inadequate.What is annoying is that I know that perfectly digestable information is available. When the legislation was laid in the recess, I obtained information from the Parliament's information centre and I am surprised that the straightforward information that was given to me has not been replicated in what was given to the committee.The brief tells us that consultation took place, but we are not told who was consulted or what the findings were. We are then told that we have little choice but to approve the instrument. I am very reluctant to agree to make a decision on the instrument today. I ask for a rather more informative briefing and for better practice from the Executive. Lay people such as ourselves—none of us are specialists in the fields that the SSIs will cover—need practical guidance in a concise form. We will have to consider the instrument again in the light of a better effort from the people who give us the relevant advice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statutory Instrument",
      "HeadingID": 25713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 25713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 665129,
      "EditedText": "Thanks, Murray. A point well made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statutory Instrument",
      "HeadingID": 25713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 25713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 665131,
      "EditedText": "The Subordinate Legislation Committee had the same information as us, but they were examining the technical process, not the content."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statutory Instrument",
      "HeadingID": 25713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 25713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 665133,
      "EditedText": "Indeed, and congratulations on getting to page 54.We have noted the comments that were made with regard to clarification and the desire to have better briefing summaries so that we can ask the right questions and take the right action. We have time at our next meeting on 22 September, so we will ensure that the information is given to the committee as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statutory Instrument",
      "HeadingID": 25713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 665135,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statutory Instrument",
      "HeadingID": 25713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ID": 25713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 665136,
      "EditedText": "It might be appropriate for the author of the report to be available at the next meeting so that we can ask questions on his amended report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 665138,
      "EditedText": "Next is agenda item 4, on public petitions. Petitions are a welcome aspect of the Parliament's work, and it is good that Parliament gets involved with the issues. This committee has a number of petitions to consider. For background information, the Petitions Committee met on 1 September to consider petitions received by the Parliament. At that meeting, four petitions were referred to this committee. Petition PE8, from the Scottish Homing Union, was referred to the Rural Affairs Committee for consideration.We will go through the petitions and determine what action we shall take. First, we will consider petition PE2 from Ayrshire chamber of commerce and industry on the upgrade to motorway standard of the A77 between Fenwick and Newton Mearns. Do any matters arise from that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 665139,
      "EditedText": "You will not be surprised if I say that as a member who represents part of Ayrshire, I entirely agree with the petition. The petition is directed to the Parliament, but the petitioners must take into account that the Parliament does not have a budget and cannot act on the petition. We must, therefore, remit this petition to the Executive in the first instance, and ask it to take the petition into account in concluding its review of strategic roads. No other option is open to us at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 665142,
      "EditedText": "The process that is being suggested for handling this matter is appropriate. However, I would like to raise one or two procedural issues relating to how these matters may be handled in future. Obviously, strategic roads development involves a number of competing projects. Do we want to create a situation in which every proposal comes with a petition? Is that an appropriate use of time and effort by ourselves and the petitioners?The other issue concerns areas that do not naturally fit into our agenda. We have an agenda set out to deal with certain matters between now and Christmas and the Executive has set its own business agenda. Issues might arise that do not obviously fit in with both agendas, and the question is how we signal to people that their matter is or is not being dealt with. We need to make it clear to people what happens when they make proposals and we have to be able to say when the committee cannot progress a certain issue at a certain time. We need to decide how that issue should be handled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 665144,
      "EditedText": "I have no difficulty with Kenny's suggestion. The only action that we can take at the moment is to bring the contents of the petition to the Executive's attention. If we do not do that, we will be failing to follow through immediately on the issue. I realise that the Executive is already examining the matter, but we should tell ministers that the issue has been drawn to our attention, even though it is a matter for them. I am delighted that we will revisit the issue in the light of decisions that will be made by the Executive and by the Parliament, because I do not want to suggest to the petitioners that the committee is punting the issue into the middle distance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 665150,
      "EditedText": "We can certainly seek the view of the Health and Community Care Committee on that matter, which will cross-cut into its activities—to use the cross-cutting term that we keep hearing about. We will see what its view is on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 665152,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed? It is.The next petition, PE7, is from Mr R H Guild and is \"on Edinburgh's transport and traffic\". I am sure that members have had an opportunity to read the notes. When the minister spoke about the local transport strategy, I felt that there was a link with this petition and how the local authority consults. The City of Edinburgh Council is forming and developing a local transport strategy, but I do not know what stage it is at. The local authority should be the main focus, in the first instance, for points about a local transport strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 665153,
      "EditedText": "I know that the City of Edinburgh Council, Scottish Borders Council, Fife Council, Stirling Council and Falkirk Council have been involved in a partnership and are engaged in exactly the sort of discussion that is mentioned in \"Tackling Congestion\". To say that there is no agreed way forward is not to do justice to the work that that organisation has been doing, which has been commendable. I applaud Mr Guild's comments about rail links with Edinburgh airport. I am wholeheartedly, four square and 100 per cent behind them. While I understand his concerns, I think that his comments do not take account of the wider work going on in the south-east Scotland transport partnership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25714,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 665154,
      "EditedText": "I will take those comments on board. Are we agreed about noting that petition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25714,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 665158,
      "EditedText": "Before it produces a briefing, the information centre will listen to the opinions of all the organisations that want to comment, so I am sure that that will be taken on board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Public Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 25714,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25714,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 665159,
      "EditedText": "Is it appropriate to make any preliminary remarks on that topic at the moment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25715,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 665164,
      "EditedText": "The bus industry should be one of our key priorities. Most members of the committee have, at one time or another, expressed concern about the fact that bus services in some areas are not running as we would like them to, whereas in other areas they may be expanding. Rural areas are left with particular problems. People may raise their eyebrows and say that Fife is not really rural, but 80 per cent of Fife is a rural area.The minister talked about quality partnerships and, possibly, quality contracts. I would like us to consider the option of franchising bus services. I see franchising as allowing us to set standards and specifications that the quality partnership would not allow us to set.I welcome what the minister said about mobile phone masts. We need to maintain a high profile on that issue, because there is concern across Scotland about the masts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 25715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 665165,
      "EditedText": "I would like to echo what Helen said. The bus issue affects us all—although I do not know about Tavish—and cuts across all areas. I was interested to hear what Sarah said about concessionary travel for the blind. We must widen that out and examine the whole issue of concessionary travel. The differences in provision in different regions will always be a difficult issue. We also need to move on telecommunications, where we can get an outcome. It is an on-going issue and we will need to monitor the situation, but it is a matter that should be dealt with with a fair amount of urgency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25715,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 665170,
      "EditedText": "It comes down to how we see the committee operating and what its role is. I think that the role is twofold: to scrutinise what the Executive is doing and to publicise what we think are the gaps. I echo what Helen, Janis and Cathy said about scrutiny. The minister touched on bus partnerships. It is appropriate that we should be looking at that. My view is that partnership on its own is not sufficient and that we should look at contracts to tie people in, and at a variety of other factors that have been raised. The minister talked about the Scottish Environment Protection Agency's waste recycling strategy and landfill tax. The two are interlinked; we cannot possibly deal with one without the other, given the finance that is available. All due credit to what has been done with the landfill tax income, but it is not nearly as much as could have been or should be done with the finance that is floating about. There are two major gaps in terms of promotion. It may be that the minister has left this to her colleague in rural affairs, but we have heard nothing about GM foods. That matter is being discussed. If rural affairs is not dealing with it, we should be discussing the spectre of GM foods. I would be surprised if it has not left it to us, given that we have the power to stop the transportation of those goods, although it is debatable whether we have the power to stop people growing the crops Helen touched briefly on transportation links, which are fundamental to our economy. It is nothing less than a scandal that from this so-called hub of a financial services city in Europe there is only one flight to London. From Ireland, there are five flights to five German cities. There is something wrong. We must consider Scottish transportation links, including ferry services and the strategic rail authority's proposed Eurostar rail links at Rosyth—questions about which the minister, understandably, did not answer. Finally, our air links lag sadly behind the Republic of Ireland and, indeed, Iceland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 665173,
      "EditedText": "I hope that we will not address disability only in regard to the buses; I hope that we will address it as it affects all transport modes. We should also deal with an issue that is close to your heart, convener—waste."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 665174,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are back where we started—having narrowed the topics down to something that we thought was halfway manageable, we have expanded them all over again. That is mostly Kenny MacAskill's fault, of course.We have to be realistic about what we can manage. I take Des's point that we have to improve our understanding and get up to speed on the issues that are likely to come up. That is not shadowing the Executive—it is merely putting ourselves in a position to interpret and deal with its proposals.I was interested in Tavish's plea for us to examine the impact of fuel prices on rural communities, especially islands. Recently I received representations from an islander who made the valid point that her petrol station, the only one on the island, ran at a loss and was being subsidised by another garage business. She said that she could not afford the upgrading that was required under regulations, and that if she withdrew the service the islanders would be totally dependent on imported fuel. She also suggested that there were safety issues surrounding the transportation of fuel to the island. There is scope for examining the regulations and proposals that the Government is putting forward in this area, to determine whether the rural petrol stations scheme goes far enough.However, I hesitate to throw anything else into the balance. We need to examine what we have come up with and identify three or four topics that we can realistically deal with, because we will have a very heavy work load once we start considering legislation. Sarah said that the first bill will come before us in mid autumn—that is not very far away."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 25715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 665176,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that. Given the urgency of the situation in our rural communities, Tavish's concerns should be addressed first. We can then move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme and Timetable",
      "HeadingID": 25715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ID": 25715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 665177,
      "EditedText": "We will come back with a work plan as soon as possible, prior to the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ID": 25716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 665178,
      "EditedText": "This last item on the agenda is just for information. I remind the committee of the invitation from Scottish Natural Heritage on behalf of the International Union for the Conservation of Nature: World Conservation Union to a working dinner on 21 October on environmental issues relevant to Scotland and a workshop on integrated planning on 22 October. Anyone who wishes to take up that offer can speak to me after the meeting or have a word with Lynn.I would now like to close the meeting. I think that it has been very rewarding and that it has built on our first meeting and the two-day briefing session during the recess. We will now develop a work programme for the foreseeable future. We can then start to tackle the meat of the issue by inviting people along to grill them—or whatever we decide to do to the poor souls who appear before us. They can provide us with advice and up-to-date information on the issues that we have discussed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C665179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 665179,
      "EditedText": "I welcome that. I suggest, convener, that if a substantive item or items can be placed on the agenda for our next meeting, the committee gives you authority to do so ahead of agreeing the work programme formally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Invitations",
      "HeadingID": 25716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 665180,
      "EditedText": "Smashing. I thank members, the clerks and the people in the galleries. We will see you at our next meeting on 22 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:38.4993885+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 665086,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased to have been invited before you so early in the work of the committee. I hope that we will establish a constructive relationship during the next few years.I will talk through the key priorities of the Executive's programme for government and will refer to \"Making it work together\", which sets out our targets.On transport, we are committed to the policies set out in the white paper that was published last year, \"Travel Choices for Scotland\". The partnership agreement re-emphasises our commitment to delivering an integrated transport policy that will meet transport needs and protect the environment.During the past year, a series of daughter documents followed the white paper. The documents addressed the appraisal of trunk road investment; consultation on regional partnerships; guidance on local transport strategies; freight, in the \"Sustainable Distribution\" paper; buses, in the \"From Workhorse to Thoroughbred\" paper; the national planning policy guidance on transport and planning; and consultation on road user charging.The devolution settlement will give Scottish ministers extensive powers relating to transport. The Parliament will have legislative power over local transport, roads, buses and the operation of Caledonian MacBrayne and the northern isles ferries. We will be able to influence the passenger rail services by issuing directions on the Scottish franchise to the strategic rail authority and by the fact that we will have control of £208 million of franchise payments.We will vigorously promote Scotland's interest in reserved matters. For example, we welcome the successful outcome on the cargo fifth freedoms at Prestwick.Local authorities are best placed to develop local solutions to local problems, and we have tried to set up mechanisms to encourage that. The first round of the interim local transport strategies is now in place. That will be underpinned by the public transport fund, which is worth £90 million over three years. The first round awarded £29 million over three years to 13 local authorities. We have received 26 applications for the second round, which we will announce shortly.We have put in place a framework for regional transport partnerships, following the consultation that we have had. The intention is to encourage better co-ordination of transport services and transport policies regionally, while allowing scope for initiative and innovation to suit local circumstances. I intend to make an announcement in Parliament in the autumn on the way forward for regional transport partnerships.By December 2000, we intend to deliver a practical and effective Scottish national public transport timetable that will cover all bus, coach, rail, ferry and air services in Scotland and connections with UK services. We are drawing up an action plan to deliver through-ticketing throughout Scotland from March 2000. We are using our freight facilities grant and our investment in freight to deliver £18 million of investment in Scotland over three years. The key objective is to transfer freight from road to rail, to make it possible for firms to transport their goods by rail, to free up some road space, and to allow us to address safety issues. We will also deliver a voluntary scheme that will provide free travel for blind people on bus and rail services by the end of this year.We acknowledge that there are distinct issues in Scotland's rural areas, and we recognise the strength of feeling about motor fuel prices. Fuel and vehicle taxation is a reserved matter, but the Scottish Executive will ensure that Scottish interests are to the fore and we will liaise with UK ministers.The Government has committed £14 million of new investment, over three years, to encouraging rural transport. I am keen to ensure that we focus that investment effectively. The investment includes £3.5 million for buses over the first two years, £0.6 million a year for community transport and £0.4 million for sustaining rural petrol stations. For 1999-2000 we have been able to set aside an extra £0.73 million, of which £150,000 will be allocated to community transport and £300,000 to rural petrol stations.We will consider what else we can do. There is considerable scope within the Executive for bringing together thinking on rural transport, social inclusion and rural development, to maximise support for accessible rural services. I am keen that we should pull together across departments, as there is scope for us to do that.The financial support that we are giving to Caledonian MacBrayne Ltd, to northern isles ferries and to Highlands  and Islands Airports Ltd is at its highest-ever level. We are ensuring that such investment is appropriate.Last but not least, we will introduce an integrated transport bill early next year to pull together the mechanisms that we require. The bill will contain a balanced package of measures to improve Scotland's transport services. It will focus on road user charging and on buses, but we are considering what other measures might be included if appropriate. That represents a comprehensive and sustained programme for the future. We have no illusions about the task on which we are embarking. We must think about how we focus on a national level and how we enable at regional and local levels. We must focus on transport opportunities at each level, whether the issue is cycling, at the local level, or the integrated public transport timetable, at the national level. We have experienced unsustainable transport trends in Scotland as a result of decades of neglect. The Executive's challenge, and the Parliament's, is to begin a process that will deliver a transport system that is fit for the 21st century. That is an ambitious task, and one on which we need to work together.The planning element of my remit is also part of this committee's remit. We are considering responses to a wide-ranging consultation document, \"Land Use Planning Under a Scottish Parliament\". I intend to publish a summary of the responses to that paper shortly. The committee will be interested in that, as that issue will have to be addressed. Particular concerns about the planning system have arisen during the consultation process, which were reinforced when the \"Pathfinders to the Parliament\" document was produced earlier this year. Criticisms have been made of the delays in the system, which will provide a number of areas on which we must focus.We are taking steps to speed up the planning system, to promote quality in planning and at ground level. The second annual report of the Planning Audit Unit is about to be published, which will allow the Executive to track what is happening locally. It will also allow local authorities to reflect on how they can improve standards and the effectiveness of the system.We intend to make sure that the planning system develops and becomes more outward looking, so that it contributes to other policy-related initiatives. In particular, we will examine how the system can promote sustainable development and link into our broader environmental objectives.We will take locational guidance on renewables by summer 2000. We will also review building standards to make sure that those standards relate to fuel and power conservation and will develop proposals to improve energy standards for new buildings by the end of 2000. We intend to make sure that the planning process relates more effectively to other area-based initiatives such as area regeneration and industrial development. Those measures form a comprehensive planning and building control package.One of our key commitments is to establish Scotland's first national park at Loch Lomond and the Trossachs by summer 2001, which is an ambitious but achievable target. We are introducing that legislation because, although Scotland's landscape is among the UK's finest, we have never had a national park, while England and Wales have had such parks for 50 years. Now is the time. We need to introduce integrated management of a key number of areas of important natural and cultural heritage that are facing particular pressures that could be helped by the mechanism of a national park.Scottish Natural Heritage has already consulted widely at local and national level before providing the Government with advice to form a sound basis to progress the legislation. However, we recognise that people need to understand how such important issues will affect them, and the consultation that we have already undertaken will not be the only one. We intend to consult in the primary and secondary stages of the legislation.It is important to recognise that national parks are about not just protecting valuable scenery, but managing such areas so that people who live there can be part of the process and can benefit from the areas' assets in a sustainable way. By doing that, we can bring social and economic benefits to communities while protecting and enhancing our natural and cultural heritage. We do not want to create museums in the countryside; we want working, vibrant national parks to manage those pressures, which is why we will be taking the extensive consultation process seriously in the run-up to the bill.SNH has also suggested the possibility of marine national parks. The conservation of marine areas is important and marine special areas of conservation already exist. Our legislation will be targeted at a terrestrial concept, and at terrestrial law, which might not be appropriate for marine parks. It might be possible to give a national park the power to secure integrated management of a maritime area through the national park plan, rather than to give it specific maritime powers. The issue is worth reflecting on for the future; I thought that I would flag it up as an issue of interest for the committee.One of our other key objectives is to modernise Scotland's drinking water and sewage treatment infrastructure. Scotland's public water authorities have a vital role in delivering improvements in environmental standards while keeping customer costs down, and they will invest £1.7 billion over the next three years to modernise our water and sewerage infrastructure. The infrastructure has suffered from many years of neglect and under-funding and the massive investment programme is reflected in two of our commitments in the programme of government.First, by improving standards of urban waste water treatment systems by the end of 2000, we will dramatically reduce the impact of sewage discharges on rivers, seas and beaches in line with European Union obligations. Secondly, we have to raise the quality of Scotland's drinking water. The £1.7 billion investment programme also includes the costs of making inroads into the past under-investment in the drinking water network to improve drinking water quality to meet European standards.We are establishing a new regulatory framework for the water industry because we need to ensure that we supplement the ambitious programme of investment to raise environmental standards and enhance drinking water quality. It is vital to have an appropriate regulatory system, to ensure that the industry operates effectively. The new arrangements that come into play on 1 November will do that for us. We will have a new regulator, to bring together for the first time responsibility for both economic and customer service regulation, so that the customers will get the highest quality of standards and service at the best possible price. That is important for both domestic and business users of the water and sewerage systems.Ministers will set environmental and water quality standards that water authorities must meet, but the new arrangements will allow proper medium-term planning by the authorities and will give customers greater certainty about future charge levels, which is a key element. Soon I intend to announce to Parliament the person we intend to appoint as our new water industry commissioner. The commissioner will be a professional regulator for the water authorities and will act in the interests of all customers.The next key issue on which I want to focus is our national strategy for waste, which we will adopt by the end of this year. We are determined to tackle the problem of waste in Scotland. We must do that by a variety of measures: we must minimise our waste of natural resources; we must increase recycling where it will benefit the environment; and we cannot rely on the continued use of landfill—it is not sustainable, and we will have to meet obligations under European legislation, which we know will change. Our national waste strategy is being prepared by the Scottish Environment Protection Agency in the light of responses to consultations over the past year. I will ensure that it is published by the end of this year. I think that the committee will be very interested in discussing how we progress with the strategy.Another commitment that I would like to highlight is the commitment to bring Scotland's 60 designated bathing beaches up to European standards. We are determined that bathing water at Scottish beaches will be clean for use by local people and tourists, and much of our £1.7 billion investment through the water authorities over the next three years will be used to tackle sewage discharges, which are a major cause of dirty bathing water. However, it is important to recognise that that investment alone will not be sufficient. A key interest group with which the Executive has to work is the farming community, to tackle problems caused by pollution from farms. I have already had a meeting with the National Farmers Union of Scotland and with my colleague Ross Finnie, the Minister for Rural Affairs. It is important that the message from the environment minister is backed up by the rural affairs minister, and that we consider not only what each department is interested in for itself, but how we can deal with issues that cut across the departments. We must have a dialogue with the farming community. This is not about us imposing rules on farmers—it is about dialogue and best practice; it is about farmers taking ownership of the problem, and it is about us all working together to tackle it.Another key issue for the Scottish Executive is working with local authorities to reduce the risk to health from poor air quality. We know from medical research that there are links between air pollution and ill health. Air pollution causes premature death and can exacerbate existing health conditions such as asthma and heart disease. Some forms of pollution are carcinogenic and some are harmful to the natural and built environment. Road transport is one of the major sources of air pollution, especially in towns and cities; but air pollution comes also from a variety of industrial and domestic sources. We need to be aware of trans-boundary air pollution: some pollution in Scotland comes from continental Europe, and from England and Ireland.The United Kingdom air policy strategy, which was published in March 1997, set health-based air quality objectives for eight major pollutants. We need to meet those objectives by 2005. A revised strategy for Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland was published in draft form on 25 August. It suggests tighter objectives for four of those pollutants, and introduces new objectives for three of them. Delivering on air quality is not just about the Executive setting standards: we must work with local authorities, because they have a key role to play in achieving air quality objectives, and they now have a duty to review and assess air quality in their area and to take action if they think that objectives are unlikely to be met.In general, we know that Scottish air is considerably cleaner than that in large English conurbations, but there are urban areas in Scotland where the air quality objectives—especially for nitrogen dioxide and particulates—will be very hard for us to achieve. We need to focus on that. Acid rain—another trans-boundary pollutant—is also a significant problem, especially in Dumfries and Galloway and the western Highlands. Over 80 per cent of the acidification in this country comes from outwith Scotland. We need to work through the European frameworks to address that problem.In the partnership document, we have committed ourselves to introducing a new system for nature conservation. We have done that because conservation is an integral part of enhancing and safeguarding Scotland's environment. That builds on our commitment to protect sites of special scientific interest. A new system of nature conservation should secure protection for the best examples of Scotland's natural heritage, and should involve local stakeholders—people who are involved in decisions affecting the areas where they live or work the land. It is important to reform the system of sites of special scientific interest. We know that the system has attracted various criticisms related to its ability to provide effective protection and its perceived failure to afford communities a stake in managing the land to secure conservation interests. We will present detailed policy proposals for a new system of nature conservation, which will take account of the consultation paper, \"People and Nature\". We anticipate publishing a white paper that will set out how we intend to take that policy commitment forward later this year. I am sure that the committee will be interested in that, as we will be subjecting the bill to full pre-legislative scrutiny. Another of our key objectives is to introduce measures on responsible access to land. We will be introducing legislation by spring 2000 that will give a guaranteed right of access, subject to a code of responsible behaviour. We acknowledge that the existing law is confusing and has failed to meet the increasing demands from the public for access, particularly to land near urban areas. We feel that if the new right is exercised responsibly, it will protect not only the privacy of those who live in the countryside, but legitimate land operations and conservation interests. Scottish Natural Heritage and Access Forum have been working on a draft code, which will be produced by the autumn. We intend to consult everybody on that and hold meaningful discussions before the draft bill is introduced. The final issue in the partnership agreement that I want to flag up is sustainable development, which cuts across transport, planning and the environment and the Government's work as a whole. We have made it clear that we want to integrate the principles of environmentally and socially sustainable development into all Government policies. That means looking at economic, social and environmental issues. At Cabinet level, we have adopted sustainable development as a cross-cutting priority in the work of all departments. It will be my job to lead the work of the Scottish Executive through that process. That is an important point on which to end. I have talked about the key issues in transport, planning and the environment, but for me, sustainable development is the big idea that holds those issues together in my work and in the work of other ministers. This may be a good point at which to stop and allow members of the committee to ask questions, or I can continue and go through the legislative programme."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 665088,
      "EditedText": "The first point to bring to members' attention is the timetable for the integrated transport bill. As you will be aware from recent media reports, we are in the middle of the consultation process on road user charging. We will consider the responses to that when the consultation period finishes at the end of this month. We are also considering responses to the buses white paper, on which there might be further consultation. We expect to introduce a bill to Parliament in early 2000. That date might be useful for you in setting your agenda. There are two points to bring to your attention regarding the legislative timetable for the national parks bill. First, that is primary legislation, so it will come to you earlier. We intend to produce a draft bill for consultation by late October, which is quite close. We intend to introduce the bill to Parliament in early 2000, probably some time in January or February. We intend to provide the order for the first national park, in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs, late in 2000. Our objective is still to have the park operational by summer 2001. That sounds a long time off, but it is an ambitious target in terms of the legislative programme. The consultation process is critical and, as I said, we must involve the stakeholders—the people in the communities. There are a variety of interests and we want to get things right.The primary legislation will provide the general framework for national parks and the power for secondary legislation to set up individual parks. The secondary legislation will be in the form of affirmative orders.The right of access legislative timetable should be contained within the proposed legislation on land reform. Again, proposals are out for consultation and comments are due in by 17 September. We will publish a draft bill in the autumn. We hope that the final version of the bill will come before the Scottish Parliament in the new year.There is a whole range of secondary legislation, so it may be helpful if I provide details of that in writing."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 665099,
      "EditedText": "I could not agree more with your first point about timetabling for public transport services. Making that information available to people is part of the critical agenda; the integrated transport bill will look at that and bus quality partnerships. We want bus companies and local authorities to take forward partnerships that will give some certainty to timetabling and focus on information provided by the companies and the local authorities. The overground system in Glasgow, for example, is an innovative scheme where the bus company has provided its service timetable for the next 10 years. That means not only that the buses are more reliable for regular users, but that new patronage can be attracted to the bus network, which is critical. Journey time on ScotRail has been a key objective. We know that improvements can be made. You are right, however, that the rail industry  is growing. That brings its own challenges. The ScotRail 2000 programme, which comes in to play at the end of this month, will see a cascade of new trains to give ScotRail more capacity on key routes. That will, I hope, begin to tackle some of the congestion issues.Our objective is to improve accessibility through the building regulations for domestic houses. We will bring that forward through regulations. Every organisation must feel that the agenda on waste is relevant. I hope that the publication of the national waste strategy will allow businesses, councils and organisations—such as the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament—to reflect on how we can minimise our use of resources and how we can recycle. A range of organisations—including the Executive and the Parliament—must take on board those key issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 665101,
      "EditedText": "I hear what you say about simplification and clarity. Successful designations need to meet those criteria, and we can reflect on that.Listed buildings are not part of my brief. They are a matter for Historic Scotland and, I suppose, local authorities. No doubt Tavish Scott's question can be passed on to the relevant minister in committee.On transport partnerships, it is important that customers and consumers have someone to complain to and that their complaints are acted on. Transport companies consult effectively with user groups. There are avenues for individual members of the public to make complaints directly, through the rail users consultative committees and the traffic commissioner. I will bring forward proposals on the shape of regional transport partnerships in the autumn, when I respond to the consultation paper and set out the Executive's views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 665105,
      "EditedText": "First, although agri-environment schemes fall within Ross Finnie's brief, it is true to say that we are discussing cross-cutting issues and environment perspectives. Robin Harper is right—we need to take a long-term view of nature conservation, which is the objective behind the introduction of new ideas on SSSIs. The points that he raised—members may wish to raise other points—can be made during the consultation process and we can take them on board. An exciting element of the Scottish Parliament is the extent to which we have an influence on rail services in Scotland and on the development of the rail network; I am keen to ensure that we use that influence to best effect. We can begin funding key investment in the rail network through the public transport fund, for which local authorities are working to submit bids. We will come back to discuss the long term. Improving the quality, frequency, range and location of rail services is an exciting opportunity for the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 665107,
      "EditedText": "When bills are being drafted, ministers have the opportunity to make comments. Members can always make me aware of their ideas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 665109,
      "EditedText": "It will not surprise you to know that I cannot give a date today. I intend to announce the results of the strategic roads review to Parliament soon, as I said I would in answer to a question from you during the summer. The strategic roads review will consider the economy, safety, environmental impact, accessibility and integration. I will address all those issues when I report to Parliament.I will not reveal our position on the rail franchises today. We are aware of the issue and are examining the opportunities. Negotiations are involved and it is not best practice to reveal objectives and tactics before negotiations begin. That is something for the future; I do not want to comment on it today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 665116,
      "EditedText": "I mentioned the national air quality strategy. It is primarily for local authorities to identify local areas that are experiencing air quality problems and then to develop an action plan. That is the extent to which we need to cross-cut different areas of government at both a local and national level."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 25712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 665124,
      "EditedText": "The matter of telecommunications masts is something that the Scottish Executive is going to bring forward. You may be unaware that Calum MacDonald, my predecessor, was involved in a consultation process to examine how this issue should be dealt with and we will be carrying on that work. I intend to give local authorities the opportunity to have more control over the location of such masts, by talking to developers who are putting forward proposals. There will be a similar framework to that which has been established in England in the past few months.I am keen to see success for the telecommunications industry, but I also want to acknowledge local concerns and to give local authorities the power to influence the location of those masts. In addition to giving more guidance to local authorities, it is my intention to introduce to Scotland a code of best practice for both the telecommunications operators and the local authorities. In that way each side will know where the other is coming from. We will also be able to give advice about planning agreements and encourage mast-sharing. We are examining a number of mechanisms that will, I hope, take account of local concerns and of the ideas that have come from local authorities in the light of our consultation.Regarding the planning process, the Scottish Parliament has the opportunity to raise the profile of planning. I am keen to ensure that development plans are produced and that people know about and are consulted about the contents of those plans. There is already best practice, but I want to work with local authorities to ensure that we improve the quality of consultation, and to ensure that local people are aware of when plans are being produced, which is a key issue.Making more timely plans available will improve consultation, letting local people know the key stages and allowing them to get involved at the time that their involvement is critically important, when policies are being developed. I hope that the responses that I receive to the land use planning consultation paper that I talked about earlier will help that to happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1866E110P248C665126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3963
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 25712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Boyack, Sarah",
      "ID": 1866,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Boyack: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 665126,
      "EditedText": "Thanks very much for allowing me to speak to you so early in your deliberations. It has been a great opportunity to talk to you about the Executive's plans. It has been most interesting to hear what your concerns are and I will monitor your progress in the Official Report on the internet, where you can also monitor mine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-10T02:00:13.2789566+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 417596,
      "EditedText": "Initially I was in favour of a quick, simple solution. I was a practising family lawyer for many years. I recognise much of what has been said. I represented women who had been victims of violence. I presume that the figure of one in four is of people who contact Women's Aid—I have acted for women who did not do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 417638,
      "EditedText": "That is why I am asking; if the breach of the power of arrest became a criminal offence, a higher evidential test would have to applied."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 417644,
      "EditedText": "My last question is whether the witnesses would like to see sheriffs dedicated to family law."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 417658,
      "EditedText": "No, I have to say that I have never—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 417665,
      "EditedText": "Go for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 417667,
      "EditedText": "I hope it lives up to its preview."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 417670,
      "EditedText": "Is that the way it started with you, Phil?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417702",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 417702,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to hear on the matter from the Sheriffs Association, which will be able to see the problems of definition that lie ahead. I would also like to hear the views of the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents. We want to put good legislation in place, and we must decide whether we want to make a couple of simple changes, tweaking existing legislation—I am with the Scottish Law Commission on that—or whether we want to take things further. There are dangers in the second course; it would be better to have a really good revision in due course. However, in the meantime I would like to hear from the two bodies that I mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11183,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11183,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 417576,
      "EditedText": "Good morning everybody. Welcome to the third meeting of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. Because of the difficulties with space in this room, we have reserved seats for the people who are coming to talk to the committee. We have only two hours this morning, so I do not intend to break the meeting halfway through, as happened at last week's meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 417579,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps you will now speak directly to the main issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 417582,
      "EditedText": "We were not seeking a complete overhaul of the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981. We are asking that the protective element be removed from the matrimonial framework and taken out of the marital sphere altogether. That would recognise the fact that relationships other than marriages exist, and the fact that women in such relationships need protection also.The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 is relatively short and straightforward. I understood that there could be no amendment to the matrimonial homes act and that there would have to be a new bill. That is why we proposed a protection from domestic abuse act. There would be relatively few sections. All we are talking about is relating orders to the class of people who would be covered by them. We are not talking about regulating the other matters—property rights, for example—that are regulated by the matrimonial homes act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 417583,
      "EditedText": "Are you involved in the Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 417586,
      "EditedText": "I take your point. The timing of this discussion is perhaps a bit odd given that the partnership has reviewed family law. At the end of this month, the partnership will reconvene to consider responses to the work plan. You may or may not have seen it. One part deals with legislative reform. It proposes a review of legislation pertaining to domestic abuse, to see what needs to be revised. We expect that it could be a very long time before the partnership gets round to implementation, so this committee could take some of the onus off the partnership. For 20 years, women who are not married have not had protection, so this reform is urgent. If we can get something simple and quick, we should go for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 417591,
      "EditedText": "Okay, that is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 417592,
      "EditedText": "Maybe we will have to introduce a matrimonial homes interdict amendment bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 417593,
      "EditedText": "Sometimes acts are amended by way of a miscellaneous provisions bill—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 417594,
      "EditedText": "There has to be a bill that contains the amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 417601,
      "EditedText": "During the past 12 months, three women in Scotland have been murdered by their former partners. They had no effective protection. Do we keep waiting? Do we wait until more women die?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 417602,
      "EditedText": "I have practical reservations about whether we can undertake the comprehensive review that Christine wants. I am trying to understand what is wanted and the practicalities of it. We all recognise that change is needed and that we have to recognise not only matrimonial relationships. I have no problem with \"former spouse\" or with the fact that people live together and that cohabiting couples are entitled to protection. My difficulty, and I would like your help on this, concerns the point at which they become cohabiting couples. You have mentioned that, in a cohabiting couple, the man has the sole title to the family home."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 417607,
      "EditedText": "We preferred that occupancy rights should be obtainable after a period of a year to 18 months. That was seven years ago, so it might be worthwhile canvassing our network to ensure that that is still the preferred option. The Scottish Law Commission proposed a period of two years, which we thought was a bit onerous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 417610,
      "EditedText": "The welfare of the child is paramount. If the child is living in conditions where abuse and violence are an everyday occurrence and a social work department thinks that they are having a detrimental effect on the child and putting the child at risk, it can seek emergency protection orders to exclude the abuser from the home for the child's protection. In the first two years of the application of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995, 10 exclusion orders were applied for and nine were granted. The courts are willing to give the exclusion order under section 76 of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995. However, local authority social work departments do not apply for them, owing to a fear of interfering with the personal liberty of a man by excluding him from his home. The protection of women and children appears to be less of a priority than a man's property rights. Suspending occupancy rights does not interfere with the man's property rights. It gives the woman and child a right to live there. Excluding a man under the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 does not suspend his property rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C417614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 417614,
      "EditedText": "Louise Sharp and Maureen Macmillan have both said that women are dying. Should we amend the matrimonial homes act, as has been outlined, and then attempt a full-scale review? If we go for a full-scale review now, it may take months before any changes take place. Should we deal with one specific area now and then undertake the full review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 417615,
      "EditedText": "As far as we are concerned, a full-scale review is being undertaken. The issues that we are highlighting are the only three issues relating to the matrimonial homes act that are part of the review. An amending provision would deal with them. I reiterate that the only aspect of the legislation that needs to be agreed and refined is the definition of a cohabiting relationship. There have been suggestions; all we need to do is agree on the matter. To put the rest of the legislation up for consideration would widen the scope of the review still further, along the lines of the English legislation. Right now, however, we need powers of arrest for the former spouses of divorced women and we need to bring cohabiting women who are in a defined category of cohabiting relationships within the scope of the legislation. That is the least that we ought to do now. The rest can be done in the future. We need a short, straightforward amendment to define cohabitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 417616,
      "EditedText": "What is meant by temporary occupancy rights? What sort of time scale are we talking about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 417626,
      "EditedText": "You have heard our discussion and the presentation by Scottish Women's Aid. Your association is no doubt well familiar not only with that organisation's proposals, but with other proposals from the partnership's consultation on family law and from the Law Society, to which you will have had much input. Can you comment briefly on some of the points that have been raised about the proposals and give your views on the proposals in general?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Shona Smith (Family Law Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 417627,
      "EditedText": "There is cross-agency agreement that extensions should take place and that there should be an interim measure extending the applicability of the power of arrest until after divorce. The consultation paper proposes that the power of arrest should be for a fixed period of three years; it would be worth introducing that measure prior to an overall review of family law legislation, including the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981.The association also believes that, given our changing society, the power of arrest should be extended to cohabiting couples. However, there will be a huge practical difficulty in defining the word \"cohabiting\". Powers of arrest and exclusion orders are obtained not just against men, but against women, so it is not good enough to say that a cohabitee is a woman who has been cohabiting for two years. I have dealt with single-sex relationships in which people have desperately needed powers of arrest and have lost their home and their way of life because that remedy is not open to them.How do we differentiate between a single-sex couple and a flat-share agreement? Such a practical difficulty will have to be faced if we are to change the law in that area. I have my suspicions that such change will not happen quickly, because the matter will have to be examined in some detail to make effective reforms. Apart from that, the association is keen for reforms to take place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 417628,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to put words in your mouth, but do you think that the proposal to extend powers of arrest beyond divorce is simple enough and can be introduced quickly enough to have immediate effect? If we are to proceed on that basis, might it be better to reserve issues such as extending powers of arrest to cohabitees for a more general review during which the committee might want to discuss the matter further?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 417629,
      "EditedText": "Out of practical necessity, the measures should be extended to cohabitees as quickly as possible, because a huge group have no real rights. That would happen in an ideal world. In our consultation process, we have examined not just the issue of cohabitees' rights in that area but cohabitees' occupancy rights and rights in the estate. Although I think that such measures should be taken as quickly as possible, I have concerns about doing that, and I would rather that we dealt with the first part immediately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 417634,
      "EditedText": "Kate said to me that the Department of Social Security does not seem to have any problems working out who are cohabitees and who are flat-sharers. It cannot be so difficult to work out a formula. I am keen to ensure that cohabitees are not excluded from this measure as it would almost be a waste of time doing it if we had to exclude cohabitees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 417643,
      "EditedText": "Personally, I think that we are moving in that direction as we are obtaining referrals to mediation and other agencies. I do not see why such agencies should not include a counselling agency or an anger management course. The practical problems should be addressed, and I think that sheriffs are becoming more aware that they are dealing with families. We want the family—although it is divided—to be able to function in the future. Counselling or anger management might help that happen and might reduce the need for the enforcement of powers of arrest at the end of the day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 417651,
      "EditedText": "I noticed your reaction, and I was wondering whether you could clarify it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 417653,
      "EditedText": "Can you put a figure on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 417654,
      "EditedText": "I will send the committee figures from an interesting piece of research conducted by an eminent professor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 417655,
      "EditedText": "Is your comment that sheriffs are not playing the game—that is, that they are not excluding men—based on anecdotal or statistical evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 417660,
      "EditedText": "The data are not collected. The only evidence available is anecdotal evidence from Scottish Women's Aid, collected over 20 years from practitioners in the field who may or may not be able to access exclusion orders for their clients. There are no centrally collected data from the Scottish Executive or from the Crown Office on how many exclusion orders have been sought in Scotland since the 1981 act, or on the patterns of granting such orders. All we have is anecdotal evidence from women who have been regularly surveyed by Scottish Women's Aid over the years, that women are frequently refused exclusion orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 417671,
      "EditedText": "No—I said, \"Sign here, please.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 417679,
      "EditedText": "Can you provide the committee with information about that, in so far as you are able? Every single one of us would like to take up that issue, even if it is separate from this inquiry. It is extremely important. Anecdotally, it has been my understanding that there is a major problem, and that is something that we would all want to pursue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 417686,
      "EditedText": "Is there a remedy? Does the power of arrest give that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Di Biasio: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 417687,
      "EditedText": "The simple way in which I look at it is that an interdict is an interdict and the power of arrest gives the interdict teeth: it gives it a remedy, and the person has somewhere to go. With an interdict without a power of arrest, the remedy is to raise a further action, which is a breach of interdict action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 417690,
      "EditedText": "Yes. There is a difficulty with emergency legal aid—apart from financial matters—for people who do not know how it works. For matters such as that which we are discussing, an SU 2 form may be submitted. Within 28 days, the full legal aid application must be launched. If a woman comes to see a solicitor with a black eye and, obviously, is extremely upset, the solicitor takes a statement, obtaining corroborative statements, and gets various bits and pieces of paperwork done before submitting the form to the Legal Aid Board. The difficulty is that the woman also has to sign something called the statement and declaration, which will be available not on that same day, but on a different day. The woman will be at a traumatic stage in her life and might decide to go into a refuge or into hiding to get away from the violent person for a few weeks. If the legal application is not submitted in that 28-day period, the solicitor is not being paid. That is one thing that should be redressed, and the time limit is far too strict. Frequently, the woman is just not strong enough to come back and deal with lawyers again; she has various other things on her mind to resolve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 417693,
      "EditedText": "Our difficulty is that there is in excess of three pages of various consultations sitting as a backlog that is waiting to overwhelm the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 417694,
      "EditedText": "Because of my concerns about not defining cohabitation correctly, I believe that the simplest way forward at this stage would be to say that any power of arrest that people can currently obtain—and that applies to some cohabiting couples—should be for a fixed period of three years unless it is recalled earlier; it can be reapplied for at the end of that three-year period. That would apply to everyone who currently has a power of arrest. It would seem to be quite a simple revisal, which would be quite easy to introduce. The other matters would be left for full consideration, so that any reforms that were introduced were done properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 417695,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. The meeting is not closing now because we must discuss what we have heard and what we want to do now. Do we want to hear more from people about how we will proceed? People are welcome to continue listening as this continues to be an open and public part of the committee's discussion. Several issues that were raised this morning need to be addressed, and we might wish to hear from some other organisations before we make a final decision. Given the work that has been done by other organisations, it would be helpful to hear directly from the Scottish Law Commission, particularly on occupancy and cohabitation, as that might help us to clarify what has been done already in that regard. We do not want to spend time reinventing the wheel if someone has already done that work. Equally, we might want someone from the Law Society of Scotland to speak to us. It might also be appropriate to ask somebody from the Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence to the committee to tell us about the work that that organisation is doing and to get their view on how they would feel if the committee pre-empted a portion of the work that it was doing. We need to have a preliminary discussion about the extent of a bill. We are all keen to get something on the statute book, but there might be practical limits on what we can do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 417696,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, for me the issue is the definition of \"cohabitee\". We need to find an appropriate form of words. We all know what a cohabitee is, and I cannot imagine that we will not be able to describe one in law. Not being a lawyer, of course, I am probably quite wrong in saying that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 417697,
      "EditedText": "Unfortunately, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 417707,
      "EditedText": "We go to Tulliallan once a month to talk to operational officers at the front line; it is a common and consistent complaint that they cannot enforce their powers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 417713,
      "EditedText": "I am more interested in finding a way to protect women from a partner, whether he is a cohabitee or a spouse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 417716,
      "EditedText": "We will be asking the Scottish Law Commission, the Law Society of Scotland, the Sheriffs Association, the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents and the Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence. I remind members that the next meeting is on Tuesday morning. Clive Fairweather from HM inspectorate of prisons and representatives of the Scottish Prison Officers Association and the Scottish Association for the Care and Resettlement of Offenders will be attending."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 417689,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that the problems with legal aid have been raised. I was at war with the Scottish Legal Aid Board for about a decade, and I am glad that I am going to continue—we should have it along. Laughter. Yes, really: it prevents justice because of the way in which it operates. Do the witnesses agree that not just are there problems with the financial test, but there are the burdens on practising solicitors of the paperwork that must be delivered at every stage? That inhibits them, because they are running two things. If they are dealing with several interdict matters, they are up in court for long periods, getting important medical evidence. Would the Family Law Association like to see the regulations changed with regard to what was called emergency legal aid?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.1770059+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 417598,
      "EditedText": "I now suspect that swift, simple legislation would not be a good idea. We have touched on cohabiting couples and a number of other circumstances. It would be better to have a thorough review. Piecemeal amendments of legislation, rather than a good, solid act, can be difficult for solicitors. I suspect that, urgent though much of this is, there should be a thorough review. Occupancy rates in cases where the sheriff has made an exclusion order have been mentioned. I would like there to be a power of arrest in such cases. I have never seen a sheriff giving a power of arrest when people are living together, because they ask, \"Who would police it?\" I would like there to be an order for counselling. Sometimes the husband—it is usually the husband—needs more than a court order. He may never have behaved in that manner before, but he may be in the emotional turmoil of a divorce or separation and feel that the children are being taken from him, the wife is getting the house and his pals in the pub are telling him that she is doing this, that and the other. That makes him do things that he will probably never do again. I have known persistent bullies of husbands, but I have also known cases where it is clear that a year or two down the road they will never behave like that again. I would like the sheriff to have the power to make an additional order for counselling so that the whole problem can be addressed and it does not seem that only the father is being punished and the children see only the father being excluded. I said at our first meeting that we could do something simple with matrimonial interdicts, particularly after divorce, but I now feel that a really good family law bill is needed. We should see what the Family Law Association has to say about that.Many solicitors have difficulty with legal aid in interdict cases as they have to drop everything on their desk to deal with them. I would like a change to the legal aid system that addresses really urgent cases in which there is no time to fax forms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 417640,
      "EditedText": "Would you recommend that sheriffs should change their policy on breaches of powers of arrest or on interdicts generally?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 417595,
      "EditedText": "Under the new set-up, we have to have a bill that contains the amendments and nothing else. We would support that and it would be a perfect way to get this change through. There is cross-organisational support for the extension of all these things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 417597,
      "EditedText": "That is the best available figure for women who have contacted an agency of some sort. A lot of women never do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 417599,
      "EditedText": "We would not disagree with that, but I do not think that we should doubt for one moment that a simple, urgent amendment is needed. Three women have been murdered by their former partners in the past 12 months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 417600,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, would you say that again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 417603,
      "EditedText": "Sometimes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 417604,
      "EditedText": "If that is the situation, I do not have a problem with the idea that the woman should have the right to occupy the family home—and the phrase is \"family home\". I know cohabiting couples who live together in a family home, but how do we identify when that definition kicks in? In relation to a married couple, it is easy—people make a commitment, they get married and it is clear that they are married. However, some people meet at the dancing, go home and start living together. If they start living together on Saturday, can the man find that, by Wednesday, the lady can say, \"I live with you; get out\"? That is a difficult problem. Can you help us to identify when the home of a couple living together with no marriage certificate becomes a family home? What is the test for that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 417605,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair and relevant point that has been considered by the Scottish Law Commission. Different options have been proposed, such as a cohabitation period of 18 months or two years. That will have to be agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 417609,
      "EditedText": "I had the same concerns as Gordon, but he is better equipped than I am to present the argument and he did so very well. How does the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 interact with the issues that Louise Sharp discussed? My understanding is that the interests of children are always put before those of everyone else, especially since the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 was introduced. That would, perhaps, partly answer Gordon's question about cohabitees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 417613,
      "EditedText": "The proposal that you have brought us for a protection from abuse act is more extensive than the initial proposal that kicked off our attempt to deal with the issue in committee. We are in the very first stages of considering the matter and already we are contemplating a much wider proposal than was initially suggested. There is some concern that there may be yet more elements to consider. We must find the right way of dealing with the proposal so that it is neither so narrow as to be unable to satisfy your basic requirements nor so broad as to pre-empt the work that may be done elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 417617,
      "EditedText": "The man's rights are suspended and the woman is given occupancy rights for periods of six months at a time. Those rights are renewable every six months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 417618,
      "EditedText": "Indefinitely?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 417619,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 417622,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming to answer our questions. I ask the Family Law Association to take over at this point. The representatives of Scottish Women's Aid are welcome to stay on, and there may be another opportunity to respond to some of the questions that arise in the forthcoming discussion. We are joined by Lynne Di Biasio, the Secretary of the Family Law Association. She is accompanied by Miss Shona Smith.Can you tell us in two or three sentences what the position of the Family Law Association is? We shall then proceed to a question and answer session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 417624,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, the Family Law Association is an organisation of legal practitioners whose work is either wholly or mainly in the area of family law, which means that its members deal with issues of divorce, custody and access and other matters relating to children."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Di Biasio: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 417625,
      "EditedText": "There is no test for the amount of family work that is done by association members, but they do wholly or predominantly family work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 417631,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is best to leave it to the discretion of the sheriff. Part of the consultation paper—not in relation to powers of arrest and exclusion orders—was about whether a cohabitee should have the right to claim on the estate of the former cohabitee. The paper said that a variety of factors should be considered, such as the length of the cohabitation, whether there are children of the relationship, and the size and nature of the estate. I do not see why many other factors, such as how finances are worked out and whether finances are being pooled, should not be considered to determine how a relationship operates. A sheriff should be given a list of factors and the discretion to deem whether a relationship has been a cohabiting relationship, or whether it is a case of two friends living in the same property."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Di Biasio: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 417635,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty for cohabitees is that occupancy rights are the starting point—as has been said—but cohabitation still has to be recognised by the court. The 1981 act says that for determining for the purposes of the exclusion orders whether a man and woman are cohabiting, the court shall have regard to all the circumstances of the case. The easy way for the legislator is to leave it to somebody else to make that decision, but the act says that those circumstances include the time for which it appears that a man and a woman have been living together and whether there were any children of the relationship. That is something to start with. The problem is that there so many other issues to be covered. It should also be remembered that as soon as legislation is amended, it is open to interpretation. One should not do a half-baked job that does not do what it is meant to do. If we try to close a loophole, many more might be opened up, so it has to be done with care. Measures on cohabitees have to be taken quickly, but because the matter is so important, it must be dealt with properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 417637,
      "EditedText": "If it is a criminal offence, it has to be beyond reasonable doubt—full stop."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 417641,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of issues for sheriffs in such circumstances. I wonder whether sheriffs sometimes take account of the fact that there is some financial support from the male, even though the relationship is breaking down—they should take that into consideration. However, the courts have the right to look at all the circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 417649,
      "EditedText": "Christine jumped to the point that I wanted to raise. I noticed that when dedicated sheriffs were mentioned, there was the equivalent of a sharp intake of breath from Louise Sharp. What were the reservations about dedicated sheriffs? Was it that they would need special training?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 417652,
      "EditedText": "One of the reasons why women frequently are not granted exclusion orders is that sheriffs are reluctant to exclude men from their homes—unfortunately, that is very common. Scottish Women's Aid is all for dedicated domestic violence courts, as exist in America, with trained, informed and aware judiciary and legal practitioners, fast-tracked cases, enforcement of breaches and efficient systems. The cost of domestic violence to our society is horrendous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 417659,
      "EditedText": "Please speak one at a time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 417661,
      "EditedText": "What is the Family Law Association's view on that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Di Biasio: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 417662,
      "EditedText": "I have practised in family law almost exclusively for eight years now, representing both men and women in cases of exclusion orders with power of arrest, and that is not my experience. Lawyers must go to court with evidence of abuse. There might be a difficulty, of course, because such cases involve situations in the home and there will rarely be a witness to an assault, if one has taken place. However, often there will be medical evidence and friends who have seen the immediate aftermath of incidents, and such evidence can be relied upon. Sometimes, information can be obtained from the police. Recently, I handled a case in which the domestic violence officer's report was sufficient to persuade the court that exclusion was appropriate. There will be cases in which women have not sought any help and have been isolated—I do not doubt that, but, to be honest, I also do not see that the answer lies within the court system. Such women withdraw because they are victims. I know that there are victims of domestic violence who are so insular that there is no one who is able to corroborate their position. In my opinion, that cannot be legislated for.  The association is whole-heartedly in favour of supporting women and of ensuring that protections are in place, but—and this has not been mentioned today—there is also the issue of abuse of those orders. There is no doubt that a minority of women fabricate information to obtain exclusion orders and powers of arrest. There are instances of the police being called out because of a breach of interdict, in which the power of arrest is available. Men are detained in custody overnight although there has been no abuse. That is undeniable. In my experience, there is no difficulty in getting an exclusion order if there is evidence for one.Some people are not protected. That gap must be closed, but it must be left to the sheriff, when the evidence is before him on the day, to make that decision. The tests must not be lowered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 417668,
      "EditedText": "There seems to be a problem with contracts. If any of us were to talk to people about establishing business relationships, we would make sure that there was a contract written in black and white. There is, compared with married couples, no protection for cohabitees. That is because of the lack of a contract. With that in mind, would you say that there was merit in anyone entering a partnership considering that, and in considering marriage as a way forward?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 417673,
      "EditedText": "That is because the traditional form of common-law marriage in Scotland—marriage by cohabitation and repute—still has legal hurdles to overcome before it is officially recognised. Scots law, in many people's eyes, recognises cohabitation—but they do not realise that there are those legal hurdles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 417676,
      "EditedText": "I was about to make that very point about the minefield of cohabitees and property rights. Not everyone wants those rights from the start. That is sometimes the reason why people cohabit, so that they can walk away without going through the trauma of divorce. I have not seen the report on family law improvement, but I am not confident that there will be much modernisation in terms of rights for people who want them, such as the single-sex couples you mentioned earlier. I think, however, that the issue is getting confused and I would like to narrow the focus a wee bit.Scottish Women's Aid seems to be saying that the law should be extended so that more people are protected in the right way and that currently the scope is too narrow. Everywhere we look, however, there are loopholes that cannot be closed. If we say, for instance, that on divorce an interdict should not fall, the question remains as to why a person who is no longer married should get protection under the law whereas someone who is a cohabitee does not. There will be a contradiction, whichever way we look.Instead of getting into technicalities—and I realise that everyone is desperate to jump to that because it is a complicated piece of legislation—we must narrow our focus. We must focus not on property rights, but on protection. How can we best extend the scope of the legislation to protect the people without getting into the question of property rights for cohabitees and single-sex couples? I do not think that we can close the contradiction here—it exists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 417677,
      "EditedText": "Did you want to ask a question, Gordon? Lynne, could you respond to that point and then Gordon can ask his question?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C417678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Di Biasio: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 417678,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, I was not responding to Pauline McNeill's point—I wanted to raise another issue. It relates to the ability to access those protections from the court. It is a realistic issue, and I think that Shona knows exactly what I am going to say. I fail to obtain orders for clients subject to domestic violence more often as a result of the failure of legal aid than as a result of the weakness of my case. If a woman, whether she be married or a cohabitee, is doing her best to bring in some family income from a part-time job and is perhaps on family credit, she can forget it. She will be sitting in front of me having been subject to domestic violence for perhaps years—she might well be sitting there with a black eye—and I have to tell her that she will have to pay the first £500 of her bill. She will say that she cannot do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 417682,
      "EditedText": "The power of arrest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Di Biasio: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 417685,
      "EditedText": "Do not forget that when a power of arrest is attached to a common law interdict, which is what you are talking about, Gordon, the areas in which interdicts are available must be examined. I might be able to get an interdict to prevent my next-door neighbour from building his fence 2 ft higher, but why should I be able to get a power of arrest to stop him doing that? That is going into a minefield."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 417688,
      "EditedText": "The other difficulty with such interdicts is that the police's assumption is that anyone living in a cohabiting relationship, or a married couple, will automatically get a power of arrest. I would say that, at least nine times out of 10, if someone telephones the police, they will come and probably suggest that the man leaves the house at that point for a few hours or overnight. They will advise the woman to see her lawyer the next day and get an interdict with power of arrest. In so many cases, that is not possible. Gradually, the police are starting to get educated about the matter. Representatives of both the Family Law Association and Scottish Women's Aid go to the Scottish Police College at Tulliallan and run training days and courses. This is the practical difficulty for a woman in distress: the police think that the power of arrest can be attached to every interdict involving people who are cohabiting, so the police will actually not do anything about the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 417691,
      "EditedText": "The committee is likely to want to examine the legal aid aspects separately. I do not want us to go too far down that road today because we need to refocus the discussion—both today and at other meetings—on the potential for a restricted bill, initiated by the committee, and on the practicality of drawing up that bill.  Are there any other points that the witnesses wish to raise about those two narrower points: the potential bill, and the practicality of how far it can be extended without getting us into a bigger minefield, as Pauline indicated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 417698,
      "EditedText": "It is important that the issue is dealt with in the bill. I am interested in the idea put forward by Scottish Women's Aid—that we do not amend the current legislation, but present something new. I am not sure that I understood whether SWA is asking for something a bit different. Would it be simpler to take the issue out of the 1981 act and go for stand-alone legislation? Perhaps we can discuss whether that would work better than what we had thought of already—amending the 1981 act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 417712,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to keep that entitlement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 417714,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty is that we want to extend protection beyond divorce and to cohabitees. We need to take more technical advice on how that can best be achieved without creating more difficulties elsewhere. We might still be of a mind that we want to proceed on the basis of a committee-initiated bill. We might want to take more evidence to ensure that the bill emerges in the best possible form and achieves as much as it can. It should be practical and should not cause more difficulty. It has been suggested that we invite a number of organisations to another meeting—or meetings—of the committee. Does anybody have anything to add to that? For example, is anybody aware of any individuals who have done academic research into the areas that we are now definitely concerned with? If any occur to members, ensure that you advise the clerk and we will add them to the list. This is an effort to ensure that whatever emerges from our deliberations is as watertight as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 417715,
      "EditedText": "Have we decided which people we have still to ask?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 11183,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 417575,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:33"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Louise Sharp (Scottish Women's Aid): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 417578,
      "EditedText": "I will give a brief outline of the organisation. The Scottish Women's Aid network comprises 38 affiliated local women's aid groups. The local women's aid groups provide abused women and their children with a direct service. The services provided are information, support and refuge. The national office of Scottish Women's Aid—or women's aid in Scotland depending on how people want to describe it—is in Edinburgh. There are 10 national workers there; both Lydia and I work there. We service and support the network of the local groups and bring issues to a forum, such as this, representing the network. Service provision is restricted by lack of resources, about which members may already know. We are trying to get a funding strategy off the ground and to get support for it. I will give an idea of how much the service is used. Last year, 49,000 women accessed the service and Scottish Women's Aid provided them with help. Nearly 3,000 women who wanted and needed refuge did not get a safe refuge place because demand outstripped supply. Nearly 6,000 children and young people were accompanying those women; almost 9,000 women and children experiencing abuse in Scotland could not be found a safe place of refuge. Funding is necessarily our priority, but protection and preventing abuse are secondary elements to resourcing the direct service work. We are here to outline one aspect of that in the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 417587,
      "EditedText": "At the first meeting of the committee, five or six members spontaneously raised this as an area in which they wanted to achieve something. Because of that interest, I know that a lot of members will wish to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 417589,
      "EditedText": "I have to say that I have been misinformed. I will not mention any names, but I was told clearly that we could not have an amending bill and would need a new bill entirely, which is not what we want. We want an amending bill to repeal the provisions that I mentioned and widen the scope of the act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 417590,
      "EditedText": "It would be a new bill that amends the act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 417606,
      "EditedText": "Do you have a view on how we should tackle that problem? We would need to include that definition in legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 417608,
      "EditedText": "Gordon was making the point that those are practical issues that we will have to take on board. They immediately raise more questions than we started with. It is not as easy as saying, bang, we can have this bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C417611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 417611,
      "EditedText": "When the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 came in, there was great hope that the exclusion provision would make matters easier. It has not really worked because caveats were built into the act. One such caveat is that the order does not apply if somebody is using the home as their place of work. Louise Sharp is right: few exclusion orders have been applied for. The authority that I was formerly employed in applied for none in the first 18 months—although there were probably grounds to do so in some cases—because the procedure is phenomenally complicated. We need something quick and easy to amend the current legislation. A full review would involve so many other aspects of the current legislation that we would probably be reviewing it for ever and a day. The Children (Scotland) Act 1995 is a good example of that point: legislation that everybody thought would improve the situation has turned out not to be particularly helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 417612,
      "EditedText": "I think we are missing the point. All the groundwork has already been done. The Scottish Law Commission looked into the matter in 1990 and reported in 1992. There have been responses to the family law review. We all have views on the subject and there is consensus on extending matrimonial interdicts and powers of arrest for spousal cohabitees. There is no argument. It only remains to arrive at a definition of what a cohabiting relationship is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 417620,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the women who were murdered during that period. Were interdicts in force?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 417621,
      "EditedText": "Two of them had civil interdicts with no power of arrest. They could not access a power of arrest because they were not married and did not cohabit in the matrimonial home at the time of the offending conduct. Those women were outwith the scope of the only protection that exists in Scotland aside from the non-harassment orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Lynne Di Biasio (Family Law Association): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 417623,
      "EditedText": "The Family Law Association was formed 10 years ago on an impromptu basis at a meeting at which a number of family lawyers thought that it would be a good idea to start an association of people who practised predominantly family law. Our membership fluctuates but, at the moment, stands at about 200 and stretches across the country. We try to address as many family issues as we can and to give high priority to the consultation process. As a result, we have been involved with various consultation documents, which are important because people should know the practical effect of what is being examined. We are trying to represent the needs of the profession and the public as perceived through our experience."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 417630,
      "EditedText": "Could you help me with the solution? I had not thought of cohabiting and flat-sharing; my daughter shares a flat with people of the opposite sex. How can the categories be differentiated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 417632,
      "EditedText": "Kate MacLean?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C417633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 417633,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 417639,
      "EditedText": "A breach of interdict is a contempt of court; it is a quasi-criminal matter. Sheriffs can impose stiff sentences for breach of interdict, and can reprimand people severely, but in practice they do not like to do so. It is a matter of changing practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 417645,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Christine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Di Biasio: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 417647,
      "EditedText": "There would be opposition everywhere to that suggestion, because of the issue of burn-out. At present, sheriffs cannot sit for more than three days—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 417648,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that there is a pilot scheme in Glasgow whereby four sheriffs are dedicated to dealing with family law matters, but I have no further knowledge beyond that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 417650,
      "EditedText": "I am particularly worried about the amount of discretion that sheriffs have already when granting exclusion orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 417656,
      "EditedText": "There is no statistical evidence in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 417657,
      "EditedText": "How do we know that that is true, as Christine does not think that it is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 417663,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 417664,
      "EditedText": "This might sound hard and dispassionate and might meet with the disapproval of virtually everyone in the room."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 417666,
      "EditedText": "There is nothing new in that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Di Biasio: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 417669,
      "EditedText": "The problem is that we are talking about human relationships. People do not work on that basis. At the outset of a relationship, it is not thought of as a contract. People think, by and large, that they are in love with the person whom they have just met."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 417672,
      "EditedText": "We need a huge education campaign. I feel that people should have a certain amount of education before they marry, so that they know what they are getting into and what their legal responsibilities are.I deal with many women who have been in long-term relationships and who have children. A recent example is a woman with three children who was in a 20-year relationship. She was a building society manager and gave that up to look after the children and to bring them up. Her partner has met someone else and has left her. She has given up everything. The house is in his name and he has walked away with everything. She is being harassed and has no real protection from that. She has no right to anything but aliment for the children. She wanted to know about common-law marriage. She is an intelligent women, but she thought that she was a common-law wife. She was not.This is a public misperception about the reality of the law. We must not say that people should enter contracts until they are educated about their rights in various situations. Most people think that they have rights as a result of being in a long-term relationship."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 417674,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that response, and it seems to me that that response should be well publicised. It might help some people who are in similar circumstances. Miss Smith was talking about a long-term relationship that produced three children. I am disappointed to hear that in those circumstances the interests of the three children are not being taken into account to a greater extent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 417675,
      "EditedText": "If there was a dispute over the children between the couple, the courts could decide where it would be best for the children to live, but there is no real dispute about residence or contact. Financially, the woman is entitled to aliment. The children have enjoyed a high standard of living over the past few years, and the reaction of her former partner has been to say that, because the Child Support Agency provides aliment at only a low rate and she can no longer provide that high standard of living, the children should live with him. When I said earlier that the review document must look at cohabitation in general, that is the situation I had in mind. There are huge areas where cohabiting couples need rights—not just on the issue of domestic violence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 417680,
      "EditedText": "I keep trying to get my mind round things. A couple are married; they separate; they do not want to live together; and in that situation the occupancy right operates and an interdict can be granted. On divorce, various things happen that can be done only at that point, not later. All the capital is divided up, somebody gets the house, they are no longer married and they do not cohabit—in that sense, they are strangers. What advantage does a continuation of such a matrimonial interdict give someone compared with taking out a normal court interdict for when somebody is pestering or abusing the woman, breaking her windows or being a nuisance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Di Biasio: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 417681,
      "EditedText": "The remedy is the power of arrest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Di Biasio: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 417683,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 417684,
      "EditedText": "So why not just add the power of arrest to the whole business of when people are interdicted in such situations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 417692,
      "EditedText": "The convener has identified the correct issue. We are trying to remove protection from the matrimonial arena—from the framework of marriage and the matrimonial home. I fail to understand the difficulty in getting these amendments through. By taking the amendments out of the 1981 act and putting them elsewhere, we are seeking protection and not regulation of marriage or the matrimonial home. Women who lose the power of arrest on divorce—this is not the best solution, because they would have to pay for a new action—could access a protective order that had nothing whatever to do with the marriage. The evidence of a prior interdict for the power of arrest would presumably be sufficient to get that. We are trying to deal with women who are not in marriage. I take the point that men are excluded and abused, but abuse is perpetrated overwhelmingly by men on women and children. With the two amendments, we could move the focus of the act away from marriage. We should not—even though it affords immediate protection—extend the power of arrest to spouses and enhance what is already enhanced protection. Cohabitees are in a bad enough position as it is: to enhance the protection of spouses and not the according position of cohabitees would not be a fortuitous route. I will briefly mention legal aid, which we both raised in our briefings. Last year, there was a consultation on \"Access to Justice—Beyond the Year 2000\", and presumably the civil servants still have it. If the responses have been collated or if there has been any progress, we would love to know, as we all responded to the consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 417699,
      "EditedText": "Any stand-alone legislation that was extended to some or all of what is proposed—and I have some reservations about one or two things that are being included at this stage—would necessarily involve wholesale repeal of some sections of the 1981 act. I do not think that there is any way in which we can avoid referring to the 1981 act. We would need to refer to it in the context of the legislation that was being introduced.The Law Society of Scotland has suggested that the whole of the 1981 act should be up for grabs, so to speak. We would be proposing the repeal of certain sections of the 1981 act and their replacement by a bill of much more limited scope. That is the issue to start with. If we want to talk of repealing sections of the 1981 act, we need to determine how many we want to repeal, how far we want to go and the areas that we want to move into. We probably all agree that we want to extend the act's provisions beyond the point of divorce and to examine the issue of cohabitation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 417700,
      "EditedText": "Those are the two issues that we want to deal with. We do not want to get into something that is too complicated—the time for that will come later. We are looking for something that will make an instant and crucial difference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417701",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
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    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 417701,
      "EditedText": "Do other members of the committee want to discuss how we should proceed?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417703",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 417703,
      "EditedText": "The Association of Scottish Police Superintendents would be through the door tomorrow morning if we invited it, so there will not be any difficulty in timetabling that. Equally, the Scottish Law Commission has shown itself to be perfectly willing to respond at short notice—and we must think about how quickly we can act. I am not sure about the Sheriffs Association."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417704",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 417704,
      "EditedText": "It will come."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 417705,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that it will come, but the timetable might be more difficult.Phil, you wanted to comment on this general issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 417706,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to make exactly the same point as Christine. As she said, the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents has already made a submission in which it states that it would like more effective police powers. Having heard what has been said today, I should be interested to hear what powers the association feels that it needs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 417708,
      "EditedText": "Now that the officers have been convinced and a change in culture has started, many of them are frustrated by the difficulties that they are encountering."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:29.4580666+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2379
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 417709,
      "EditedText": "We came into the Parliament aware of the problems of women who are abused, and we recognise that the law simply does not protect women in those circumstances. The tension is between moving too quickly—in which case, we might not afford women the protection that we want them to have—and more detailed consideration, which will take time. If we move forward quickly in the way in which most of us would like, it is important that we have a bill that will stand up and will offer the maximum protection until there is a further review. I am taking on board some of Christine's concerns, but I am inclined to think that we need to do something, and to do it quickly. We have to ensure that whatever we do is good."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417710",
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 417710,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the suggestions that have been made; let us hear some more evidence. Like Gordon, I am trying to get my head round what we are trying to do. I want us to be clear about that; Maureen might like to come back on it. My reading so far—and somebody will shout me down if I am wrong—is that when somebody is trying to leave their partner because there is a history of violence, we try to protect them whether or not they are married. The non-entitled spouse bit—trying to protect people in a home that is not theirs—gets complicated for me. Before we decide whether it is a case of just making an amendment, can we focus on what we are trying to achieve? Maureen, am I right in saying that it is not the right to occupy that we are trying to protect, but the safety of the person who is trying to leave?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417711",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 417711,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we are trying to protect the woman, but in the act as it is now, those rights are tied up with rights to occupancy of the matrimonial home. That is why it has been so difficult to disentangle it."
    },
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:00."
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  },
  {
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    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 143
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 417577,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981. We are taking evidence from Scottish Women's Aid and the Family Law Association. I want to express the committee's thanks to the Law Society of Scotland for a briefing paper on this issue—it has been circulated to members—and to Scottish Women's Aid for the paper that it arranged to be circulated at short notice. I also thank very much the people who have agreed to come and speak to the committee at such short notice. I hope, nevertheless, that the invitation was welcome and we hope to make some progress today. We are joined by Ms Louise Sharp who is the legal issues worker with Scottish Women's Aid. She is accompanied by Ms Lydia Okruj. I welcome you both to the committee and thank you for agreeing to come at such short notice. The briefing paper has been circulated to committee members. Will you take a minute or two to give the committee members who might not otherwise know about Scottish Women's Aid a brief outline of the organisation and its role and function? If you then speak directly to paper two, I am sure that the committee will have questions that they wish to ask after that."
    },
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  {
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    },
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    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
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      "EditedText": "Thank you. Your last point presented quite a wide-ranging set of proposals, and I notice that you outlined in your briefing your desire for a protection from abuse act. We also have a briefing from the Law Society of Scotland. It broadly agrees with the kind of proposals that you are talking about; but equally it expresses concerns about taking a piecemeal approach and suggests that we should go for a thorough review of the 1981 act—which is, in a sense, what you are saying—or not do anything legislatively until we know the outcome of the Scottish Executive's current consultation. This committee must decide how to proceed. Do we, despite some of the external advice, try to put together a fairly small piece of legislation of limited scope now, or do we institute a longer-ranging process to tackle the issue? The latter is being suggested by the Law Society of Scotland and, perhaps implicitly, by Scottish Women's Aid. A protection from abuse act could not be brought about simply on the basis of one or two meetings. Could you comment on that?"
    },
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  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes, we are."
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
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      "EditedText": "How would our proceedings in respect of what you are suggesting impact on the partnership's work?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C417580",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sharp: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 417580,
      "EditedText": "Members have already been briefed on the technical aspects of the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981 and its impact on abused women. The briefing notes the women who are not included in the scope of the 1981 act. The act was introduced in 1982—almost two decades ago, and in those two decades women have been killed by their abusers. The briefing gives details of women who have been killed in Scotland in the past 12 months. The 1981 act was heralded as a major step in providing protection from abuse, but the statistic that, every week, two women in the UK die at the hands of their abusers has to be born in mind. We know that one in four women experience abuse at some point in their lives. Now, two decades after the act was introduced, we need to take urgent action to include those who are excluded from the protection of the act. There are categories and classes of women who are not provided with automatic protection under Scots law; that needs to be addressed urgently. I will give a brief outline of which women are not included in the scope of the 1981 act and the technicalities of the act. The act relates the protection it provides to the occupation of the matrimonial home. A person who has the ownership or tenancy of a home possesses occupancy rights in relation to that home and the act attempts to regulate that occupancy. If a woman marries a man, she is not an entitled person in terms of the house — he is the owner or tenant. By virtue of marriage, she automatically acquires a right of occupancy and it is that right of occupancy that gives her a passport to accessing the protections in the act—matrimonial interdicts and the right to exclude her spouse and suspend his occupancy rights if there is abuse. The automatic rights of occupancy and access, and part of the right of protection, disappear after divorce. A matrimonial interdict can have a power of arrest attached to it. That gives the police discretion to arrest the perpetrator of the abuse should he breach the terms of the interdict. At the end of the marriage—through divorce or death—the power of arrest is completely lost, so a spouse loses vital protection. A matrimonial interdict without the power of arrest is not effective. That power is the enforceable and effective part of it.The first group of women we would like to be included in the widened scope of the act are spouses after divorce. We know that the times during separation and following divorce are very dangerous for women. There is a widely held myth that physical or legal separation from the husband or partner offers some protection, but it does not. The risk of female homicides is increased during, and in the aftermath of, separation and divorce.Cohabiting women and women who are joint tenants or owners are in the same position as spouses: they can apply for all the protections under the act and they can get a matrimonial interdict and an exclusion order if they satisfy the tests. The language makes the legislation more complex, but if a woman is a non-entitled cohabiting partner—not a joint tenant or owner—she is, to all intents and purposes, in exactly the same position as a spouse.A woman who has no entitlement and lives with a partner who is either the sole owner or tenant of a property has no occupancy rights. Apart from the common interdict—which is similar to the prevention of a neighbour cutting down a tree and for which anyone can apply—a woman must first go to court in order to get a matrimonial interdict, or any of the protections in the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981. She must get a declarator of occupancy rights.For women who are not entitled—who are not tenant or owner—that process might take up to 12 weeks. The Family Law Association may say something different, but I can provide references to cases in which that has happened. A woman must wait for 10 to 12 weeks before she has occupancy rights and access to protection. During those three months and pending the action, a woman might choose to stay with the abuser. He will know that the woman is applying for those orders and that she may be trying to have him excluded from his home. The woman will have to put up with whatever reprisals that brings.Her other choice is to leave and to go into refuge—perhaps temporarily—until the orders come through and she is safe. She might go into temporary homeless accommodation provided by the local authority. That might be in a bed and breakfast or something equally inappropriate. The innocent victim of abuse and her children must leave the family home without their possessions and go into alternative accommodation while the perpetrator of the abuse is allowed to stay.If the woman succeeds—and cohabiting women often do not succeed—in accessing the protections under the act, she might be able to return to the home and the abuser will be excluded. She will have an interdict with the power of arrest so that she can remain in the family home with her child with reinforced protection. That is very rare. It is very difficult to exclude men who have sole title to the family home, and in the experience of Scottish Women's Aid it happens relatively infrequently.In addressing that problem, one straightforward suggestion has been to extend occupancy rights to cohabiting women in the same way as a spouse acquires them through marriage. By virtue of the cohabiting relationship, the non-entitled woman—who has no ownership or tenancy rights—can acquire that right of occupation.Often, people find it difficult to accept that the woman would acquire rights on a property that does not belong to her, but we are not talking about her acquiring property rights: we are talking about her acquiring temporary rights to continue to occupy the family home, along with her children.Married and cohabiting women who seek to exclude abusers face stringent tests to persuade the courts to oust a man from what is often perceived as his home. Despite the fact that they may have been systematically abused over a long period and despite the fact that there is good evidence, the tests are incredibly stringent. To exclude a man from his own home it must be necessary for the protection of the woman and/or child, and it must be just and reasonable. There is a long list of matters that the court must consider when coming to a decision about whether it is just or reasonable: the relative conduct of the spouses, whether alternative suitable accommodation is available, and so on.Exclusion orders have not been mentioned by anyone so far, and I note that they were not mentioned in the family law review or the Scottish Law Commission's recommendations. We do not want to end up with the situation that they have in England. There, the scope of matrimonial interdicts—which are called non-molestation orders—has been widened to enable cohabiting women, former spouses, former cohabitees, fiancées, same-sex couples and others, to gain protection against abuse. However, they also have occupation orders—similar to our exclusion orders—that allow only the people with occupancy rights to obtain an occupation order to exclude the other partner. That means that if someone shares their home with an abuser they can obtain an interdict with the power of arrest to try to stop the abuse, but unless they have occupancy rights they cannot exclude the person from the home.We do not want the same situation to exist in Scotland, in which non-entitled cohabitees have an interdict that enables the police to arrest the offender if he breaches it, yet the abused person must continue living in the same home as him unless they can obtain an exclusion order. Currently, in order to exclude an abuser, the abused must have occupancy rights. It is absurd that in England a person can be in the same home as their abuser and they can have an interdict, yet they cannot exclude him from the home. In a relationship in which abuse is a factor, having an interdict with a power of arrest can only increase the difficulties.Our other concern is that relating the degree of protection that is available to the lifestyle or relationship choice of the parties is now outdated. Cohabiting partnerships are as common as marriages these days. All sorts of complex family relationships exist: heterosexual and homosexual couples, married and unmarried and second families. By limiting the full protection to those who are currently in a state of marriage—divorced women are excluded from power-of-arrest provisions—we are behind the times. The act came into force almost 20 years ago. It is time that it was brought up to date with the social reality of human relationships and reflected their diversity.The last main area that requires to be considered for reform is the enforcement of powers of arrest. If an interdict is breached, the police can arrest the perpetrator at their discretion. The discretion has been restricted somewhat by a circular from the Lord Advocate in which he said that all but the most trivial of breaches should result in arrest, but that does not happen in practice. Whether a breach is considered trivial depends on the subjective view of a police officer. We know of numerous cases where an interdict has been breached and the abuser has not been arrested.To overcome that difficulty, we suggest that breach of interdict be made a criminal offence—along the lines of what happens under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. If a civil non-harassment order made under that act is breached, it is a criminal offence, the penalties for which can be severe. There is a two-tier system: if an interdict is breached, there is a relatively weak response from the criminal justice system; if a non-harassment order is breached, there could be severe criminal sanctions—we do not know how well it is working yet as the legislation is only two years old.A lot of cohabiting women, who are not covered by the 1981 act, are accessing the 1997 act to secure non-harassment orders. The 1981 act deals with domestic abuse; the main aim of the 1997 act is to prevent stalking, not to deal with breaches of interdict, but it is being used for that purpose because it is far more effective than the other legislation.Sometimes a strong criminal justice response is thought to be inappropriate, but we should bear in mind that strong enforcement of the orders will deter some offenders from reoffending. It will not eradicate recidivism, but anything that lessens the likelihood of offending behaviour recurring is worth considering.Civil orders are essential because the woman seeks the order and retains an element of control over the process. She can remain in her own home with the abuser excluded. The alternative—minor sanctions resulting from breach of the peace convictions—is not as effective. The extension of protective civil orders, with appropriate enforcement, will provide one of the best forms of protection for women.The committee might have heard of the three Ps: protection, prevention and provision. They are the central tenets of strategies to combat domestic violence. The Scottish Partnership on Domestic Violence has embraced them. Protection and prevention are well provided for by civil orders. We ask that the committee consider the introduction of a protection from domestic abuse act that reforms the law to extend the class of people who can seek protection; to create a new offence of breach of a protective order; and to rename the orders, as the term \"matrimonial interdicts\" is irrelevant and does not describe the diversity of people's relationships. We envisage that the act would involve a straightforward repeal and would remove the connection with the matrimonial home and marital statement prerequisites. Those changes would widen the scope of protection to include everyone who needs it."
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  {
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
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      "EditedText": "I understand what has been said about the need for a thorough overhaul, but I feel that we might wait for quite a long time to get everything we want. What I wanted was something simple and quick, such as a bill to amend the matrimonial homes act. Would you be happy if we did something simple and quick now, and perhaps worked towards an overhaul?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417636",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
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      "EditedText": "I should declare an interest in that I was a founder member of the Family Law Association—my membership probably lapsed ages ago, but I think that I was the sixth member.If the urgent amendment is simply to widen the scope of the legislation post-divorce—a point that I raised at the beginning—that is fine, but I am concerned, as you are, Miss Smith, that in other areas we get the legislation absolutely right so that it is effective for women, mostly, and for some men.Do you think that the breach of the power of arrest should be a criminal matter—I sympathise with that—and, if so, should the test have to be beyond reasonable doubt?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417642",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
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      "EditedText": "I do not want to hog this session—I have been asking these questions for about 12 years—but would the witnesses like sheriffs to make orders for counselling? I am not sure whether sheriffs can do that. There would have to be an agency for such counselling, but that power would ensure that the law was not simply regulating offending behaviour but was doing something for the party that was excluded from the property."
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Family Law",
      "HeadingID": 11184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 417646,
      "EditedText": "Sorry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7506,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7506,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 284011,
      "EditedText": "You are going to be fairly cross-eyed if you want to catch the eye of all the people sitting here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7506,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7506,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 284012,
      "EditedText": "I will swing around in my chair; do not worry.As I was saying, please wait until you are acknowledged, press your button and then speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 284017,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pick up on what Margaret said. I asked for a highland name to be on the list, but one was not included. The researchers have come up with a couple of names from the Highland Health Board, but they have not been circulated with your papers. We should invite the director of finance or the chief executive of the Highland Health Board. Their evidence will provide a rural perspective. They will benefit from the changes so it will be interesting to hear from them. Margaret made a good point about considering it from the point of view of the statistics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 284014,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we should not merely go over the whole of the Arbuthnott report, but that we should home in on one or two issues. I also agree with what you said about health inequalities. By chapter 15 of the main part of the report we are almost being invited to look at that issue in greater detail. It would be worth our while doing that with regard to the Arbuthnott report. That will also lead us on to examination of some of our other concerns about health inequalities.The Arbuthnott report wants distribution of funds to be based more on need. The technical part of the report is at pains to try to disentangle factors relating to supply and demand and those relating to need. We should be careful that when the money is given to health boards, it is spent in line with people's needs and the priorities of addressing health inequality.I am slightly concerned that the report merely says that this is about distributing money to health boards, and that it says nothing about how those boards spend the money. There seems to be a slight inconsistency. If money is being given out on the basis of need, there should be a monitoring mechanism to ensure that that is the case. That is my fundamental concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 284018,
      "EditedText": "It is right that we should look at long-running issues. Without raising the issue in full today, I would like us to agree to inviting the minister to address the committee on the pressing issue of cardiac surgery at the hospitals for sick children in Glasgow and Edinburgh. There is outrage in Glasgow at the suggestion that the paediatric cardiac surgery unit might be closed. We need to debate that or ask the minister to speak to us before the decision is made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 284019,
      "EditedText": "At this time in the discussion, I would like us to remain focused on the issue of Arbuthnott. After that, we can consider other issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 284022,
      "EditedText": "Not only do all the people who it is suggested will brief us on Arbuthnott come from the central belt—the rural factor is crucial to the reallocation of resources—but there are no general practitioners among them. I suggest that we invite Dr Colin Hunter of the Royal College of General Practitioners to speak for the GPs of Scotland. We need to keep them firmly in mind. Also, why do we need two representatives from Tayside Health Board?I know that my filing system is not as efficient as it could be, but I cannot seem to find the list of priorities that we filled out at a previous meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 284031,
      "EditedText": "When I met Margaret Ford, she said that she wanted to see someone from a health board that was likely to win. She seemed keen on Highland Health Board, given that it was both a winner and rural. The converse of that is that Lothian is urban but a loser, in the widest possible sense. There is some crudity in that selection.To return to the list of witnesses, it is only there as a guide, it is not an exhaustive list. As I have said to many members of the committee, I am concerned about the amount of time that our researcher has in which to work on items for the committee. I raised that matter at the conveners committee yesterday, where everyone who attended echoed it. The names on the list are suggestions and members of the committee should come forward with the names of people that they want to consult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 284025,
      "EditedText": "It is up to the committee to decide on the remit of any inquiry that it holds. I echo the points made by Hugh and I hope that I made the same points at the beginning of the meeting. We need to add value to work that has already been done. There is no point duplicating the Arbuthnott report, even if we could—it is very detailed. We do not have the time. However, we have been steered in the direction of two issues which are not mutually exclusive. There is a problem of exclusion that goes beyond health inequalities that must be addressed.If the committee agrees, we can extend our remit into the way in which health boards carry out the work and how that can be monitored. Is that agreed? It is. We will feel our way through the process of deciding our remit, and I am sure that we will get there in the end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 284027,
      "EditedText": "Lothian Health is on the list of witnesses and it is facing such a reduction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 284028,
      "EditedText": "However, Lothian only has to cope with a 13 per cent reduction, while the Borders will have a 37 per cent reduction and Orkney will experience a 41 per cent drop."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 284040,
      "EditedText": "There is general agreement on the course of action that we should take. We should narrow our priorities down to health inequalities and rural issues. I agree with Malcolm about the importance of ensuring that the extra money awarded to health boards is spent on health inequalities and that the boards do not see it as a bonus. We have an important role to play.On Richard's point, I am a bit concerned about our using the meeting on 15 September to hear evidence from agreed witnesses on Arbuthnott if the minister is unavailable. Surely we do not plan to hear from a whole tranche of witnesses. It is important—as has been mentioned—that we first receive a briefing on the Arbuthnott report from a representative. The time to structure our programme and decide on Arbuthnott is once we have had the briefing. It is a bit premature to be setting dates. Once we have had the briefing, we can decide where to go from there and which witnesses to call."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 284045,
      "EditedText": "Are you thinking of holding the informal meeting next week? That is a bit tight."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 284047,
      "EditedText": "It is all right for us, because we have allocated time for meetings next week and the week after that, but if we want to get key experts in, one week's notice is too short."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 284048,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that, but we are constrained at the end of the process, as there is a deadline. We cannot do any more at this point other than ask the clerk to arrange an informal briefing as soon as possible. We have all agreed that Richard's suggestion would be a useful starting point in attacking the issue. We will probably have to reschedule the suggestions that we already have. Towards the end of the process, I will need time to prepare our report, hold discussions and come back to the committee. That time must be built in; we cannot just take evidence, hold an informal meeting and leave the matter at that. If we want to add something to the consultation, we must produce a report—which it will take time to put together—and agree that we are happy with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 284049,
      "EditedText": "It is quite a tight time scale to ask somebody to give us a briefing a week from today, but could we try to get someone along? After that, we can act week by week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 284052,
      "EditedText": "That has been taken on board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 284055,
      "EditedText": "\"Statistician\" is not the best word for this time in the morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 284057,
      "EditedText": "One of those people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 284060,
      "EditedText": "Or for validation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 284062,
      "EditedText": "At the informal briefing we need to have a statistician who can take us through the report. We need to have an expert in inequalities, such as Vera Carstairs—although I do not know whether she is still available—or Brian Jarman. That would not deal with the detail of what is happening in Pollok or Castlemilk, but we could talk about how people investigate inequalities in the delivery of a health system strategically, and how the index is created on which people's challenges are based. The two experts are Carstairs and Jarman—Jarman in England and Carstairs in Scotland; we need someone at that level. We need someone who can investigate ruralities and give us an informal briefing, because the committee quite rightly feels that that is one of the issues that it wants to address. Then we need an overview. Why are certain health issues and disease processes treated differently in the report? We need someone to deal specifically with health needs assessment, because the report rejects a number of options. We need someone to take us through the reasons why those options were rejected. We need to know not only why they were rejected—I do not want to go into that now—but whether the Arbuthnott report is written in stone or whether a review will be needed soon. Health needs assessment systems that might be better are coming forward. We need to know what flaws there are in the Arbuthnott report. It is not perfect, but it is the best that we can do right now. I suggest that we have that group for the briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 284063,
      "EditedText": "I will discuss the matter with the clerks and come up with a list of about five people to approach. I will e-mail those suggestions to members later today; they should tell me as soon as possible what they think of the selection. Time is of the essence and we ought to approach potential witnesses today. Now that we have all had a chance to express our views on the subject, we can move forward. I shall work on that today and contact all of you this afternoon—I hope that you will still be around.Would members of the committee like to appoint a special adviser? If we want to do that, we will have to find out how it will work in practice. I am not sure whether any other committees have yet appointed advisers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 284067,
      "EditedText": "Not necessarily."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 284070,
      "EditedText": "Before we discuss specific topics,  it would be helpful to clarify the process for reacting to events and areas of concern. Any committee member who had concerns about a specific issue, which they wanted to be included in the agenda, could notify you as the convener in advance, which would allow you to have some semblance of order in meetings. If we simply throw our concerns into the discussion at the end of a meeting, it is the nature of politics to have four or five committee members raising four or five important issues that are dear to them. There is no sense of order. I would be much happier with a system whereby, if I felt strongly about an issue, I could write to you asking to slot the matter into the agenda. That would give prior warning without having to go through a process of notification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 284073,
      "EditedText": "I spoke to the minister last week about reports that were going through the Executive and were behind the scenes. We know about some of them, but will probably not know about others, because reports are always under way on all sorts of issues. I asked Susan Deacon to give me an idea of what is in the pipeline because of the committee's work load and priority planning. I followed up that request with a letter in which I apologised for the short notice, but said that we would need to know what reports were in the pipeline so that we could take them into consideration. It was a last-minute request and possibly I should have thought of it before the recess, but I did not. We will probably receive the information fairly swiftly so that we can include it in our thinking. Rather than setting priorities and dates today, we might have to be more fluid and be prepared to slot things in once we have that information.Richard made a good point about urgent issues. Committee members must let me know the issues that they consider to be urgent, because I will receive letters from committee members and other MSPs and, if we do not have a system of benchmarking, I might end up making arbitrary decisions that members do not agree with.Richard also mentioned cervical screening, about which I wrote to the minister, who replied that an interim report would be available in October. Later we will discuss the minister coming to talk to us on a range of issues; I have told her that I want to talk to her about cervical screening in particular. The minister's attendance at the committee will probably be after the publication of the interim report, so we will be able to ask questions about it. We might also want to speak to other people about that report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 284076,
      "EditedText": "Can I come back on that one?There was a discussion at the conveners committee about the formation of sub-committees. As with a lot of things that the committees do, the establishment of sub-committees has to be passed to the Parliamentary Bureau for its point of view. However, it was said that there was nothing to stop conveners asking individual committee members to consider something and report back. I know that Hugh, for example, is keen to examine the issue of smoking. Standing orders allow us to have one competent reporter on an issue. There is no reason why we cannot have a reporter working with a couple of other committee members. If we want to take forward in that way issues that arise in the next part of our discussion, we should do so—if we are challenged, so be it. My understanding, though, is that that would be fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 284078,
      "EditedText": "I intend to report briefly later from the conveners committee. Without going into detail now, I can say that there are a number of issues on which the conveners committee is keen to clarify the position of committees, such as the relationship between committees and between committee conveners and the bureau. The conveners committee is actively considering the issue of sub-committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 284079,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we should conduct inquiries into more than one area at a time; that is the proviso with which we accept the Arbuthnott timetable.I agree that we need sub-groups. I understand the difficulty about sub-committees, but the Equal Opportunities Committee established yesterday that its basis of working will be in small groups, so there cannot be a problem with sub-groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 284080,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is a problem with sub-groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 284088,
      "EditedText": "I accept the point, Kay. At all times you can take the list of priorities as the starting point for our discussions. Your point is well made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 284093,
      "EditedText": "It is me next."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 284095,
      "EditedText": "That is all right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 284097,
      "EditedText": "The night before may be too short notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 284099,
      "EditedText": "It must ultimately rest with my judgment on whether the matter is crucial. If, for example, there were a sudden risk to public health in the water supply, we would discuss that, but there are different levels of priority. Some decisions will have to rest with my judgment. One of the things that the conveners committee made clear was that clerks can speak in committee meetings, so Jennifer can tell us what the procedure is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 284104,
      "EditedText": "The other source from which we will receive business is the Public Petitions Committee. Anybody can petition that committee, from individuals and organisations to groups of thousands of people. The public has that way in, and the Public Petitions Committee will deliver items to us with a time scale for consideration. That committee will discuss the matter with me and with the clerk to clarify our work load. From initial discussions, it seems that we will have to respond to such business within two cycles of our meetings. Depending on how the meetings of this committee go, that may end up being a matter of only a fortnight. We will have an incredible work load problem because of that, but that is the public being able to gain access to Parliament as quickly and in as businesslike a way as anybody could justifiably expect. We must put certain parts of our business in train so that we can give a considered view on petitions and issues that come before us. We must be able to react, but we must know how to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 284107,
      "EditedText": "Equally, Dorothy, I did not come to the committee and ask for special consideration for the cochlear implant service, which is currently being reviewed. Such things go through a process and I am happy for that to be the case. When the process is completed, I will ask further questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 284111,
      "EditedText": "I had community care and smoking in mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 284112,
      "EditedText": "I have one last point. I would like to make a recommendation on addiction. We need to tell the bureau that addiction is such an important issue and is relevant to so many committees—the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, the Health and Community Care Committee and the Education, Culture and Sport Committee—that it requires a separate committee. Unless Scotland tackles the drugs issue as a major priority, and it is recognised by the Parliament with a separate, specific committee on drugs, it will be dealt with badly in each committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 284114,
      "EditedText": "No 1? I would not say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 284115,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is the No 1 public health issue, although it is not necessarily the No 1 issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 284118,
      "EditedText": "We are looking at health inequalities, and I accept what Malcolm says: that health inequalities and poverty will run through everything else that we do. We should make sure of that. We will try to cover our spread, and I hope that members will bear with me.We would do best to address the drugs issue in a much more integrated way, rather than jumping into it immediately. It is not that I do not want us to tackle it, but my view is based on discussions with other conveners. We cannot forget the question of alcohol; we should come to it at some point in our programme.I agree with the points that have been made about community care and the Sutherland report, and the points that Richard has just made. We should be ready to consider a programme for dealing with addiction, but we should kick it off with either smoking or alcohol rather than with drugs, for the reasons that I have just outlined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 284119,
      "EditedText": "I am very comfortable with the structure that Richard has proposed, and I think that that applies to most members of the committee.I wonder whether you could clear up one point about Arbuthnott. There is a difference between the methodology that produces a particular resolution and other substantive issues. Many of the issues surrounding rural health, for example, are not dealt with. The same applies to the question of health inequalities—it is linked to Arbuthnott, but it is not covered explicitly. To take up Malcolm's earlier point, I hope that we will extend our consideration to such areas.My substantive point concerns the private finance initiative. Perhaps you intend to say something about that later, convener. I do not think that it is sustainable for this committee not to consider the health implications of PFI in Scotland. In terms of public confidence, it is not sellable for the Health and Community Care Committee of the Scottish Parliament not to consider what is a burning issue for both the public and political parties. We cannot go down that route. I would welcome an early indication that we will be discussing the subject.I do not know the details of your conversations with other conveners but, having talked to colleagues on various committees, I know that no committee—including the Finance Committee—is going to consider PFI in the same way as this committee can. Other committees will be comparing PFI and other means of funding in terms of value for money. They will not be looking at PFI in terms of what it will mean for the health service. I look forward to your comments on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 284121,
      "EditedText": "Why will it be looked at next year? Is not PFI a perfect example of a self-contained topic that could be looked at initially?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 284122,
      "EditedText": "As I said, we have to be realistic about what we can do with our time. I am not saying that PFI is not important, but members of this committee thought that community care and addiction were more important. Those issues can possibly be taken forward more effectively by us alone; other issues will be tackled more effectively in conjunction with other committees. As we are setting things up, and as all committees are considering how they are going to tackle their work load, I have suggested to other conveners that, if we want to get the full picture, the committees must work together on the two issues of drugs and PFI."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 284124,
      "EditedText": "Yes. A lot of it is down to other people setting the same sort of priorities and then working together. I do not rule out the possibility that, following discussions in the conveners committee, I may say to this committee: \"A particular issue has arisen and two other committees are considering it. Although we have said that we would consider something else, we should try, for the sake of joined-up government and working together as productively as possible, to slot this issue in, as it has a health aspect.\" I am open to that way of working—it is part of the great learning curve.We are coming to the end of this part of our meeting, so I will call Margaret and then Hugh before winding up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 284131,
      "EditedText": "I want to be firm at this point. We must bring this part of the agenda to a close.To pick up on Hugh's point, we should investigate the role of rapporteurs and sub-groups. We will have to deal with the Arbuthnott report, the incapable adults bill and statutory instruments—as we discovered yesterday. Moreover, the convener of the Public Petitions Committee will hold a press conference to tell everyone in Scotland that that committee exists, which will mean that all the health issues in which people are interested will come to our attention in that way. We must be reactive.Over and above the things that we know that we will have to deal with, there are two broad areas of interest that we want to pursue in the immediate short term: community care and addiction. I suggest that the clerks and I come back to the next meeting with a report on our options in terms of sub-groups and reporters. I ask members to consider not only what topics they would like to be included in the remit of the sub-groups dealing with community care and addiction, but the membership of those sub-groups. At the next meeting we will be able to focus on those parts of our work load, having had some clarification of our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 284132,
      "EditedText": "We need clarification. When we are talking about addiction, we must be clear what we mean, because from what you said previously, our programme would exclude drugs. It would be wrong to use the term \"addiction\" because, to the public, addiction means drugs, crime and poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 284133,
      "EditedText": "Can I get a steer from the committee? Given what I said earlier about drugs, are we happy to come back to the community care aspect? Taking on board what Margaret said, I will contact the relevant conveners as a matter of urgency and let them know that that is how our minds are working. On the addiction side, we will focus first on smoking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 284137,
      "EditedText": "The conveners committee is considering cross-cutting committees and discussions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 284138,
      "EditedText": "But this is a specific matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 284140,
      "EditedText": "When we talk about smoking, we should not use the term \"addiction\". We should talk about tobacco, otherwise we will be misconstrued. People think addiction and then think drugs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 284142,
      "EditedText": "The public is much more interested in saving people from heroin. There have already been 100 heroin deaths in the first eight months of this year. Should we, as a new committee, focus on just smoking—I hate to use that term—when the drugs menace is ravaging parts of Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 284144,
      "EditedText": "What you are saying is that the issue of drugs will be taken forward across committees. The private finance initiative is another. Is that correct?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 284146,
      "EditedText": "I am not. I just did not hear PFI being mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 284148,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 284149,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 284151,
      "EditedText": "Part of his remit is community care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
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      "ID": 7508,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 284152,
      "EditedText": "Yes.We have full diaries, so we will probably not be able to do that soon. Susan Deacon will be here on 6 October to discuss the Arbuthnott report, so she will have been to see us twice before she comes formally to discuss wider issues. That is not a bad thing for the committee because it will give us a chance to get an idea of what we really want to ask her."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 284160,
      "EditedText": "The minister had to be there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 284162,
      "EditedText": "It was the minister's motion, and our understanding was that she had to be there as a matter of procedure. It was her request that it be done that way, and we had to follow that due process. We did not ask her to meet us on the shellfish issue; it was quite the other way round."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284171",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 284171,
      "EditedText": "You are talking about meeting Susan Deacon a few weeks hence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 284172,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I am talking about the beginning of November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 284174,
      "EditedText": "I was going to ask whether we are happy for Susan Deacon to speak to us. At some point we must decide which areas we want to examine, so I ask each member to make a suggestion. The minister has intimated that she would be happy to refer to a couple of the issues that I mentioned to her over the summer. We have covered cervical cancer screening. The other issue that cropped up over the recess was the heat treatment of blood. It is of great concern to haemophiliacs, and Susan Deacon and I discussed it in the recess. If everybody can make suggestions to me, we can give the minister prior notice of the areas that we want her to talk to us about. That will give her officials a chance to brief her. Is everybody happy with that? Ben Wallace has caught my eye—did you want to add anything?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 284180,
      "EditedText": "We have to take matters as they arise. On some occasions we might feel that there is one issue that we want to discuss with the minister. However, after a recess—particularly the summer recess, which is quite a long period when the committee does not meet—a few issues might have backed up. We are in a learning process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 284184,
      "EditedText": "I am watching the time. If everybody is happy that we invite Susan Deacon and Iain Gray, we will probably meet them at the beginning of November. However, Susan Deacon will be here before that, to speak on Arbuthnott."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 284201,
      "EditedText": "I think that we would be doing a disservice to the chief medical officer to allow that to happen. It would damage the integrity of this committee. We hope that, if we ever call him, it will be on important issues. It is unfair to have him disappear off to the Rural Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 284203,
      "EditedText": "Item 4 deals with the conveners liaison group, where I am not soft. The conveners have had two very useful meetings. The first was quite long and provided a good exchange of experience. As you might imagine, the conveners of the committees, like all of us, are on a learning curve. It is a good forum in which to share working practice and we will share new experiences as we make use of the full range of mechanisms available to us, such as reporters and sub-groups, setting agendas and working together in a cross-cutting way.I will run through the kinds of things that we have been discussing, many of which are in a state of flux. Some items are confidential because they have financial implications, and to allow negotiations to the benefit of the committee structure I will respect that. I will run through the issues, and if there are any questions of a similar nature that you come up against, as a committee member, and that you would like me to take to the conveners committee, I will be happy to do that. Obviously, you all have members of your own parties represented on that committee and you may prefer to go that way.We have been looking at the standing orders. For example, the conveners committee is informal and we are wondering if that is the best arrangement. Committee accommodation is another question. We are in the chamber today because of the constraints placed on us by the buildings in which we currently work. I am not prepared to hold meetings of this committee in rooms to which the general public does not have access. I think that that is the view of all conveners, particularly if they know that members of the public are keen to attend.We are looking at how committees travel, and at how to ensure that we do not meet only in Edinburgh or the central belt. If we travel, we must do that effectively, openly, and within budget. There has also been discussion about the appointment of sub-committees and working groups—the kinds of things that we were discussing earlier. We are awaiting a report on that. We discussed cross-cutting issues and the best way to work together across committees. We discussed the use of advisers on committees. The consultative steering group had been keen that advisers should be co-opted to committees and given voting rights, but that was lost in the Scotland Act 1998, so we now have advisers without voting rights.I am happy to say that the role of committee clerks was discussed. It was clarified that our clerk, Jennifer Smart, and all the other clerks were capable of speech directly to you, without interpretation by me. I take responsibility if I pick one of a range of options that are put to the committee by the clerk, but I think that you should be made aware of all the options that are before us.As well as the question of the substantive nature of the conveners group as a committee, the big issue on the agenda yesterday was the work load of committees and how we ensured that we did what we were meant to do. That ties in with our discussion earlier. I am happy to take forward on your behalf to the conveners committee any bigger issues about how the committee structure is working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 284208,
      "EditedText": "We will be slagged off by the Daily Record irrespective of what we do, so let us do what we want."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
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      "ID": 7510,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 284210,
      "EditedText": "Hugh, who was at yesterday's meeting, will agree that I made that point quite forcefully. In terms of research, we have at our disposal one half of two thirds of a person. My maths is not good enough to come up with a precise figure, but that is not enough for us to do the job that is outlined at the top of today's agenda. I know that members will spend hours looking into the subject themselves—we all do that sort of work and will always do so, no matter how many researchers we have—but we need a research capacity that allows the committee structure in this Parliament to function as it is intended to function and in the way in which members of the committees and the conveners want it to function.We cannot hold to account an Executive that has hundreds of civil servants at its disposal and all sorts of reports being done on its behalf, at arm's length from the health and community care department, when we have so little research back-up. I raised the issue last night at a meeting with the First Minister. Duncan can rely on my chuntering on about that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
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      "ID": 7510,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 284212,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on, I should say that I have been made aware of the fact that some staff members from Stracathro hospital, Angus, are in the public gallery. I welcome them on behalf of the Health and Community Care Committee. They were not here at the beginning of our meeting, and we are sorry that we were not able to join them earlier for theirs, because we had a prior engagement. We are here because the other committee room that was available to us would not have allowed access for members of the public. Single-handedly, the staff of Stracathro hospital have ensured that we make the right decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 284217,
      "EditedText": "We must be careful about moving out of Edinburgh. Not everyone is convinced of the merits of holding committee meetings throughout Scotland simply for the sake of it. Many organisations would like to give evidence to the committee, and it would do no good to have committees and organisations passing each other on the roads and motorways of Scotland.We must consider what we can humanly cope with. Expense is not the only important issue. We must think about how we can physically accommodate the other work that we have to do in Parliament. Some of us have the luxury of being members of only one committee, but others sit on two committees and have other responsibilities. We cannot simply name a destination for a two-day visit; there are other things that need to be done. Some of us also have constituency responsibilities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 284219,
      "EditedText": "We need to take a range of things into account. I do not think that we can take it for granted that there is unanimity about how holding meetings elsewhere can be done—there are concerns about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
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      "ID": 7510,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 284220,
      "EditedText": "As with most things in life, Hugh, it is a question of balance. I think that we can accommodate all the things that you mention.Jennifer has reminded me that I have to watch the time, so I will do so.I thank my colleagues for their comments, which I will take back to the next conveners meeting, which is, I think, in three weeks' time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lothian Health",
      "HeadingID": 7511,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 7511,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 284228,
      "EditedText": "I have my hand up, Margaret. I agree as far as the time scale is concerned, but this point connects with what we were saying before. Part of our job is to hold health boards to account and to ensure that they are delivering the priorities on health inequalities. We will be examining that issue at some point, and it may be appropriate to meet the board as part of our monitoring of the effectiveness of health boards in implementing the strategic priority on health inequalities. It may be easier to put our response in that context, rather that saying that we will never talk to them again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 284016,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a point about inviting individuals to committee. I have a particular problem with the names that have been suggested, because the list is not representative of the health service in Scotland. There is a bias towards the east coast of Scotland. As one who comes from the west, I want to ensure that the interests of those who live there are acknowledged. We must also consider those who live in the Highlands and Islands and in the Borders.We must be careful. If we are to home in on certain issues in the Arbuthnott report, we must speak to Professor Arbuthnott. That report is based on statistics—we must examine the statistical evidence to ensure that it is robust. If it is not, there will be big problems in the next two years. We must tailor the list of those to whom we wish to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 284029,
      "EditedText": "I suggested to the researcher that he found—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 284032,
      "EditedText": "At this point I do not want to argue about the names of those whom we will consult, but I repeat, first can we work out what we want to achieve, and then can we decide who the most appropriate people are to help us achieve it? We should not begin by saying who should be consulted without having an idea of why they should be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 284036,
      "EditedText": "He could appear before us. I suggest that John Forbes from the University of Edinburgh sit with us. He is a statistician on the chief scientist's health service research committee and is very good at explaining statistics to those of us who find them difficult. He could guide us when we get to that point.We should also do that in other areas. When we are considering rurality, for example, we need to have someone sitting with us who is an expert on that. Finally, although we are the representatives of the public, we need to have someone from the patients' organisations here—sitting with us rather than giving evidence.Having said all that, I think that too much time has been allocated for discussing the report. We are spending a huge amount of time on this, but once we have had the briefing, we may be able to deal with it in a couple of sessions. I do not think that we need longer than that. If we take until 14 November, which is the date currently set, we will be into the winter.I want us to be questioning the Executive very closely on its plans to deal with this winter, because some hospitals, which I will not name, are already on a no-admissions policy. If we are at that stage in September, God knows what will happen in December. We need to question the Executive on that now, not when the emergency arises."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 284037,
      "EditedText": "From a procedural point of view, I want to pick up what Richard said. It would be a good idea to have an informal briefing. This is a complex subject and it would do us all a great deal of good to be able to ask our questions without prying eyes seeing how complex we are finding it.However, we have a problem with the timetabling. Appendix 3 sets out the committee's suggested course of action, with dates. I do not envisage that we will go full pelt on Arbuthnott and that nothing else will come before us until November. The process will tail off into things such as the production of the report, which will involve the clerk and me, and then we shall come back to the committee, but most of our time will be taken up with hearing evidence. That is what will happen in September and early October. After that, the amount of work involved for the rest of the committee will diminish; there will probably be two further meetings when we deal with this, although there will be other things on our agenda. It would be useful if other members of the committee could give their views on the points that Richard made.The suggestion that we appoint a specialist adviser was one that I was going to put to the committee. I believe that any appointments of specialist advisers have to be ratified by the bureau and, possibly, by the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Such things obviously involve cost, and we would have to say why a specialist adviser was adding value to our work. I am not saying that I am against the idea. It is a good one with a complex issue such as this and is something that we should bear in mind. However, despite what you say, Richard, time is tight, as much of October and November will be taken up with Arbuthnott and other things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 284043,
      "EditedText": "The only question is the availability of witnesses. Presumably it was just a suggestion to schedule witnesses for 15 September. We might have to wait a week or two to get them in. The Finance Committee had an initial briefing on the nature and scope of finance—chaired by an economic journalist and attended by professors of economics and others—which was extremely useful. It would be valuable to have a meeting with four or five people, chaired by someone other than Margaret—I do not mean any disrespect—to allow her to be a full participating member. That concept works well and I would certainly recommend that we do that, if the clerks can manage it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 284046,
      "EditedText": "The whole thing is a bit tight, but we are constrained by the timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 284053,
      "EditedText": "Following up Dorothy's point, I would like to be quite clear that the first meeting is an informal briefing. I would like us to identify quickly—perhaps even at the end of that meeting—some clear objectives and targets. The Arbuthnott report is huge. If we start to discuss the inequalities that emerge from gender, geography, poverty and social class, we must remember that it is a huge subject on its own. The rural service dimension that we have been talking about can be added. It is important for us to set clear objectives and targets early on. After the informal briefing, we can set clear targets. Is not that the stage to bring in statisticians and others to give evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 284054,
      "EditedText": "I think that a statistician—a person who knows about numbers—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 284056,
      "EditedText": "If I have understood Dorothy correctly, I think that her point is that the good thing about an informal briefing would be that we could ask questions about the parts of the report that are the most difficult to understand. As many people have said, that relates to the methodology, tables and figures in the report. A statistician—I used it again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 284058,
      "EditedText": "Yes, one of those people would be useful to have at the informal briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 284064,
      "EditedText": "Are you talking about advisers for this particular inquiry, or for more general matters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 284065,
      "EditedText": "I mean an adviser for this inquiry. If the committee wants to appoint one, I shall make a couple of suggestions and see what people think. I understand that, because such an appointment has financial consequences, the Parliamentary Bureau will have to agree to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 284068,
      "EditedText": "There might have to be two people. One would be a statistician, because statistics are central to the report; the other would be a professor of public health. One could help with the general message of the report and the other could deal with the statistics."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 284071,
      "EditedText": "I echo that, Hugh. I want to get a sense of how members feel that we should deal with this. Hugh is right that if a member wants a matter to be discussed, they should contact me and we can decide what to do. Apparently there can be no \"any other business\" item—notice must be given. Hugh was right, as usual. Although we do not want to look as if we are not listening to what is happening out there, we have a tight work programme, and it will take time to produce results on big issues. I welcome the opportunity for us to discuss that more informally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 284074,
      "EditedText": "As Richard said, we must impose some order on our list of priorities because it is a hotch-potch of issues. We should try to differentiate between individual issues, such as passive smoking, and subject areas. At the moment, the subject areas seem to be much of a muchness.I do not know members' views on, or the position of the standing orders in relation to, the establishment of smaller groups to consider specific issues. I would welcome clarification on that, because in view of the burden of work that we are outlining today, working in smaller groups might be a way of making progress.If we can make progress in smaller groups, we should bear in mind that there is a difference between the self-contained topics on our list, which may also have a defined time line, and the open-ended ones, such as public health. With that differentiation in mind, we could get some advice on how to progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 284077,
      "EditedText": "It is true that we can get round the rules, but if we decide to use sub-committees, it is important that, rather than trying to outfox the bureau, you express clearly to the bureau that we want that method of working to be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 284083,
      "EditedText": "I agree. We have a huge agenda and we could probably meet every day of the week in every week of the year and still have work to do. It is important to target and focus. The point that I wanted to make relates to the reporter system, which was mentioned in the consultative steering group report. I hope that we can find a way of taking that forward. It is different from a sub-committee system, because it frees up members more. One, two or three people work on an issue, but not as a formal committee and they do not meet every week. They work together in partnership to achieve a common aim. Hugh and I have both acted as reporters in Europe and it is a system that I commend to the committee. It would not tie up individual members other than in the specialist areas in which they are interested. That is an advantage over setting up a sub-committee, which might regularly tie up four members and perhaps committee clerks too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 284084,
      "EditedText": "The idea of sub-groups and reporters is a much better way to go than formal sub-committees. The situation is fluid and our views may change on the basis of knowledge that we glean and decisions that we take, but at this stage, that is the way we should go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 284090,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point for moving the discussion to its final stage. I am allowing this part of the discussion to overrun a little because I have been timetabled to report on the conveners committee for 30 minutes—I will not bore you for 30 minutes on that. I think that it is important for us to set off in the right direction on all these matters. I ask members to make comments along the same lines as those of Mary, to tie together our opinions on what we want to take forward. We should think in terms of the issues to advance using sub-groups and reporters who will do the initial work and return to the committee later. That will be easier for some matters than for others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 284091,
      "EditedText": "I want to underline what Richard said earlier. Yet again, we are starting to drift into the topic. Before we come to a topic, it is important that we identify how we stream this committee's roles of scrutiny and dealing with advice and reports—which is what Richard was talking about. We should decide now how we divide those streams up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 284092,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to do that because we have not been told what reports the Executive will throw at us. That should not, however, hold this committee back from setting, say, two priority areas that we want to investigate, in sub-groups, using reporters and so on, so that we can proceed with our agenda as well as with that of the Executive. My gut reaction is that we can cope with two pieces of work at this stage, along with what is likely to come from the Executive and the other things that we have on our plate. We could sit every day of the week and debate everything, but we should put a self-denying ordnance on ourselves. Richard's point on theatre utilisation illustrates the sort of structural change that will happen and which this committee should look back at a year or so down the line. The committee has a part to play in judging how primary care, health care co-operatives and so on have worked—or not—in practice, but we cannot do that until some time in the future. We have to move our discussions along on several fronts as effectively as we can. It will be a job for us, but we should not step back from setting out a couple of priorities of our own. We can then set people to work on them in the background. As I said before, we should not rush to conclusions, but aim for quality and value."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 284094,
      "EditedText": "Ben, I sort of interrupted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 284096,
      "EditedText": "Let us rewind. I have been trying to get in on the debate for some time. I am concerned that we might be tying ourselves up in long reports when something immediate happens. The Scottish public has a right to fast access to committees as well as to the Parliament. That is our big improvement on Westminster: people can raise an issue fairly quickly. For instance, as Richard pointed out, there will be the inevitable winter crisis—November and December never being foreseen by the health service—and the situation of the two children's hospitals has suddenly blown up without any of us knowing about it. All sorts of things are happening. Convener, you said that we could submit requests. How quickly could that be done? Could requests be submitted the night before a meeting, whether of the committee or a sub-committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 284100,
      "EditedText": "It is important to give proper notice, so that the committee is open and accessible to everyone. When members put an item on the agenda, notice of it appears in the business bulletin. That is the deadline for submitting items. The other place to air issues is the chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 284101,
      "EditedText": "The deadline is the day before, but members should consult Margaret?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 284103,
      "EditedText": "The public would rightly get angry if it saw us developing into yet another of those bodies that go on and on without the public being able to raise a big issue—such as the closure of a local hospital—very quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 284105,
      "EditedText": "Concern will be expressed in Glasgow about Yorkhill, but all members of this committee and every member of this Parliament will have a particular issue to raise. This is not the place for that. The question of Yorkhill is a matter for that area of Glasgow and for the clinicians in the health service to consider. We are not here in place of the Scottish health service; we are here to ensure that that service deals with things in an appropriate way. The Greater Glasgow Health Board is charged with examining the matter that Dorothy raised, under the direction of Geoff Scaife and his team. We need to be careful that we do not pick up issues that are not entirely in our remit. The issue might come before us at some point, but we would destroy democracy if we jumped in first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 284108,
      "EditedText": "I understand, but the point that I am trying to make is that there might be many occasions when this committee has no chance to inform a minister of its views before a minister makes a decision. We want to avoid that happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284120",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 284120,
      "EditedText": "I certainly would not rule out discussing PFI, which is going to be one of the key issues in the health service in the coming years. I have written to the conveners of both the Finance Committee and the Audit Committee about it, as the issue has been raised with me by members of this committee and by other members of the Parliament. My view is that it would probably be better to tackle it in a more integrated way, in which we would put a particular slant on it. Whereas the Finance Committee would look at it from the point of view of value for money—and as public servants, we all have to have a regard for value for money—this committee would look at it in terms of provision of service and staff conditions, for example.PFI is on the list because a number of us have concerns about it, but I think that it may not be looked at until next year. The Finance Committee and the Audit Committee will be looking at it, too, so we must talk to one another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 284126,
      "EditedText": "I agree with everything that Margaret says. The Health and Community Care Committee has to consider every aspect of service delivery and resource transfer between health boards and social work departments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 284129,
      "EditedText": "It is always better from the point of view of balance to have two reporters. I will speak to the clerks in order to clarify that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 284130,
      "EditedText": "I know that you want to finish up, but I have another point about the additional priorities list. There is a clear theme relating to public health. I do not disagree with any of the priorities that we have identified in terms of community care—we all know how important that is. However, although health inequalities are on the priority list, that is a little different from the public health agenda, which includes the prevention of ill health and the promotion of good health. We must consider the screening programmes. We have talked about the cervical screening programme, but there is also important work on extending the age limits for breast screening to consider. The public health agenda should also be on our priorities list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 284135,
      "EditedText": "Let us not go down that route today. If people want to go beyond smoking and to talk about other addictions, we can consider that at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 284145,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I do not know whether you are trying to trick me, Duncan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 284147,
      "EditedText": "You do not need to trick me into mentioning it again, Duncan. PFI is an important issue for the people who work in the health service. It is important for all of us that we have the buildings and services in place to give the people of Scotland a world-class health service in the years ahead. I made it clear at the beginning that PFI was an important issue. If everybody is happy with where we are, I want to thank everyone for a good discussion. That completes only the first item on the agenda, but it has been suggested that we should take a short comfort break."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 284153,
      "EditedText": "The minister was here for the debate on amnesic shellfish poisoning. Are you saying that she will also be here to discuss the Arbuthnott report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 284155,
      "EditedText": "It might be useful to have the minister here to discuss amnesic shellfish poisoning and other such specific issues, but I am not sure that there is much value in inviting the minister in for general discussions. Having heard this morning's discussion and thinking about our individual interests, we could end up going round in circles. I might want to address an issue that is of interest to me, and someone else might want to go down a different route.It would be more beneficial—in terms of holding the Executive to account—for us to give ministers specific subjects on which we want to question them. That would allow us to go into those subjects in much greater depth and would also allow the ministers to focus better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 284156,
      "EditedText": "Susan Deacon will get advance notice of the issues that we want to discuss. The discussion will be free-ranging. We want to raise issues such as cervical cancer screening—the minister has already been told that we will probably want to ask her about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 284157,
      "EditedText": "That is important. I raised with you the question of cervical cancer screening because I wanted to know that there would be an opportunity for us to discuss that. I am content to hear you say that there will be a report, which we can examine and question as appropriate.If, however, we simply say to the minister that we would like to discuss community care, addiction, drugs or whatever, things will get out of hand. We must say to the minister that we want her to come to the committee to represent the Executive on specific issues.As Mary said earlier, community care is such a wide-ranging topic that the discussion could go anywhere. We need to decide what we are not happy with. I would rather that the minister was brought in to say what the Executive intends to do about the potential crisis in the NHS during the winter. The committee would be more productive if we could tease out a range of things.The danger is that the broader the issue, the less accountable the Executive becomes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 284159,
      "EditedText": "Yesterday was useful, in that we met the minister and got to know her a bit better. However, frankly, it was not really necessary to have a minister of her high rank there for a non-controversial issue. We were not going to vote against the shellfish ban."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 284163,
      "EditedText": "I thought that a more junior minister could have been present in such circumstances. However, it was good to meet the most senior minister as the kick-off. In future, we do not want the highest-ranking minister to be called in on non-contentious issues. We want them to be present when we are discussing a contentious issue and when the Executive has to explain itself. I repeat my fear that we could have ministers coming before the Parliament to say that something is a done deal—that a decision has been taken. We do not want that—we want discussion beforehand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 284164,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order. Is the procedure that the senior minister should attend? I was aware that a minister had to attend, but should it be the senior minister?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 284165,
      "EditedText": "It was the minister's choice to attend—she came at her own invitation to speak to the statutory instruments. It was not a decision for the committee to take—the minister decided that she would come to the meeting to speak to those instruments, and that is how it was left."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 284177,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we have to be specific in order to hold the minister to account. Apart from the first time, I would not like her to come to our meetings too many times for general reasons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 284178,
      "EditedText": "I saw it as a courtesy invite from the committee—a setting in train of what I hope will be a good working relationship, given the parameters within which we all work. Beyond that, Susan Deacon's visits to the committee will result from specific issues that arise in our work load. We do not have the time constantly to have general chats with people, and certainly nor does she. I am happy to put that on record. Are we happy with that decision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 284179,
      "EditedText": "What is not clear to me is whether Susan Deacon would consider handling a mixed bag of subjects on some occasions. If she is to come about a specific subject, we might tend to drag it out because a minister is here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 284181,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to hammer something too much, but yesterday I asked Susan Deacon whether she would come before us to speak about the children's hospital."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 284183,
      "EditedText": "She said that she would make a decision within a few weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 284185,
      "EditedText": "We now turn to item 3 on the agenda, amnesic shellfish poisoning. The Rural Affairs Committee had a meeting on 31 August. Its members were concerned about the impact of the amnesic shellfish ban on scallop fishing. The convener and the clerk of that committee told me that they had invited the chief medical officer for Scotland to talk to them about some of the aspects of amnesic shellfish poisoning and the beef-on-the-bone ban. They asked if we were interested in attending their meeting to ask questions of the CMO on those two matters.I thought that we would be interested. Resources can be rationalised if our committees deal with those issues together, so there is something to be gained. We touched on the issue of co-operation yesterday. The edges of our remits are blurred on these matters, and, as someone told me, life is not in little boxes. Rather than expecting the whole committee to attend the Rural Affairs Committee, I suggest that I and one representative from each of the political parties go along. We could ask questions and participate in that part of their meeting on 5 October. Does that meet with the approval of the committee? It does. Excellent. That is the type of debate that we should have.Item 4 is the report from the meeting of the conveners group. I will not need the half-hour that has been allocated to this matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 284188,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I am concerned that the issues might be mixed up. I understand that the Rural Affairs Committee is dealing with the impact—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 284189,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, this was passed in their committee, and then they had to come to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 284191,
      "EditedText": "The issue is, which is the lead committee for dealing with beef on the bone?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 284192,
      "EditedText": "The Rural Affairs Committee is under the impression that it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 284197,
      "EditedText": "You can understand that I am in a slightly difficult position, because the Rural Affairs Committee has already gone through its committee process. Prior to their meeting, nobody intimated that they would take that decision. If the mood of the committee is that we say we will not go along, and that we should invite the CMO separately, we will do so, but I was reacting to an invite after the fact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 284198,
      "EditedText": "We are dealing with a matter of principle, which also applies to other issues. The economic consequences of the beef-on-the-bone ban for rural areas—for example, how they are affected by it and how they can be protected—is a legitimate area for the Rural Affairs Committee to address. The medical question as to whether the ban should be lifted, however, is a matter for this committee, as is any other medical issue. Other committees should not be making decisions about medical matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 284200,
      "EditedText": "We can ask the clerk to take this up. The request came from the convener and the clerk of the Rural Affairs Committee, as if this was a procedure that was acceptable. If the clerk can investigate that for us, we can revisit the matter. Their meeting is not until 5 October, so we have time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 284202,
      "EditedText": "The request has been made. I do not know whether he has accepted it. We will leave it with the clerk and she can report back to us. I have taken note of the committee's views; obviously, I was being far too soft."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 284204,
      "EditedText": "Through the other committee on which I serve, I have become aware of issues such as the question of where responsibility lies for different matters. We had a good example earlier in the beef-on-the-bone ban. It is early days in the life of the Parliament, and everybody is keen to throw themselves into work. However, there are potential problems with that enthusiasm if members stray beyond the remits of their committees, even though a matter is of burning interest and is one that we know should be addressed by the Parliament somewhere. The conveners group should resolve that problem so that each committee is aware of what it can and cannot discuss. If members overstep the boundaries, the clerk and convener should haul them back. Otherwise, if we discuss every subject, no matter how peripheral an interest the committee may have in it, we will get nowhere.I am clear what this committee is about, but I am aware of the dangers. In some other committees, members are straying into the territory of other committees. For example, in the European Committee people started to raise issues that were more the prerogative of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 284205,
      "EditedText": "I have two quick points for you to take back to the conveners group. The concept of hearing evidence outside the central belt and certainly outside Edinburgh is vital, particularly on the rural health agenda that both Mary and I are interested in. To risk the wrath of the Daily Record, I say that it is important that we do not run down that taking of evidence to a bare minimum, as has been suggested. If we believe that it is worth hearing that evidence, it must have equality of treatment and be heard by more people rather than fewer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 284206,
      "EditedText": "The feeling on that might be that we are damned if we do, damned if we don't."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 284209,
      "EditedText": "Fortunately, I gave up reading it a long time ago.The second issue is the research resources available to the committee. I know that poor Murray McVicar strives manfully to provide all the evidence that we need, but the situation might become ridiculous. The committee should not be short of information because we are short of research capacity. We need adequate resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 284211,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to make a similar point, convener, which will not surprise you. It was mentioned this morning that Parliament is centralised in the east of Scotland. I want the Health and Community Care Committee to visit the west and the Highlands, as so much of Arbuthnott focuses on rural issues.I have read in the Daily Record and elsewhere that there is a problem with money. However, various consultation meetings are going on throughout the country. Jim Wallace, for example, is in Inverness tomorrow night to discuss land reform, and I fully support that. However, if there is a budget for ministers to go round the country to listen to what people have to say about land reform, tourism and other matters, money should be allocated for us as a committee to meet people in other areas of Scotland.I do not want to go only to places such as the council chambers in Glasgow. It is important that we visit health providers. That could include visits to drugs rehabilitation centres or to hospitals. We should not always sit as a committee, but should be at the chalkface of health provision. That would be very helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 284213,
      "EditedText": "I have two points. Once we get our work schedules organised—that is to be discussed at the conveners meeting—is there a general intention that they should be publicised? That affects how the public can get to us, as individuals and collectively. If we decide that in the spring we will deal with local health care co-operatives, their representatives and their function, having that published on a general schedule would allow the public to contact us. That is another way of doing what Mary was suggesting that does not involve our travelling.I have already received an e-mail from our colleagues at Stracathro and have replied to it—I am sure that we have all had such an e-mail, even if we have not yet replied. Accessibility—electronically and in other ways—is absolutely crucial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 284214,
      "EditedText": "It is my view that the work schedule of this committee should be made public. I have not raised the issue elsewhere, but I am happy to discuss it with other conveners.We want to ensure that a range of things happen. One of the key spin-offs of the lack of research facilities available to the committee is that we will be beholden to organisations and professionals in the fields that we want to investigate. Many organisations have already sent us a lot of information and we are grateful for their interest in our work. It will be useful for them to know in advance that we want to consider certain areas, so that they can raise issues for us to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 284216,
      "EditedText": "All the points that members are raising have been mentioned in the conveners committee. We are aware of our limitations, but we are also aware of the fact that we have to deliver a service across Scotland.When we make visits that involve an overnight stay, we must be responsible about our choice of accommodation. We must add as much value to such visits as we can. Our visits must be as productive as possible, giving members of the committee hands-on experience and involving people who work in the areas with which we are dealing. We could even hold public meetings as well as holding a committee meeting. That would impose a heavy work load on us for the day of the visit, but it would be in our interests to do that to make the best use of the Parliament's time and money, regardless of what the Daily Record says. Members from all parties agree that the Parliament should not concentrate on Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7510,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 284218,
      "EditedText": "We all have constituency responsibilities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lothian Health",
      "HeadingID": 7511,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 7511,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 284221,
      "EditedText": "Our final agenda item is the invitation to the committee from Lothian Health to have a meeting with its representatives and talk through some of the issues currently affecting health boards.To explain the background to this invitation, I am not only the convener of this committee, but the Edinburgh West MSP, and I discuss a range of issues with Lothian Health. We all end up reading the Edinburgh Evening News, whether we like it or not, because we hear what Lothian Health is up to no matter what part of Scotland we are from. I pointed out to Lothian Health's representatives that their organisation has been under scrutiny more than any other in health care.They felt that a wider briefing on how health boards work and what the crucial areas are might be useful for the committee. They said that they would be happy to have a meeting with the committees on those wider issues, given that they are close at hand. How does the committee feel about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lothian Health",
      "HeadingID": 7511,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7511,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 284222,
      "EditedText": "I have a particular problem with that. We are representing the whole of Scotland and have civil servants who are quite able to tell us how health boards, local health care co-operatives and trusts operate. If we want to provide an appropriate service to the people of Scotland, we must be independent. We would lose that independence if we took advice from one particular health board, and I do not approve of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lothian Health",
      "HeadingID": 7511,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7511,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 284223,
      "EditedText": "I would see taking advice from one health board in the same way as taking advice from all sorts of organisations. I spent the summer meeting about 30 or 40 health groups. I have listened to all of them. That does not mean that I shut out what others are saying just because I have listened to one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lothian Health",
      "HeadingID": 7511,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7511,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 284224,
      "EditedText": "It is about perceptions as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lothian Health",
      "HeadingID": 7511,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 284225,
      "EditedText": "The invitation is there; it is in good faith. I do not think that they are saying that they have first call on resources or anything like that—quite the opposite, given our previous conversation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lothian Health",
      "HeadingID": 7511,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 284229,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that they will take it in the manner in which it is meant.I will bring the committee's proceedings to a close at this point. I would like, however, to have a word afterwards with party spokespeople on a procedural issue which the clerk has brought up with me. I will also attempt, as will some of the rest of us, to speak to some of the members of the public not only in the gallery behind me but in the one to my right. Could those members of the public who wish to speak to us please make that known to the security guard. As many of us as possible will also try to speak to the representatives of Stracathro hospital who are present.I thank the members of the public for their attendance and thank committee members for their attendance and contributions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284230",
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      "ID": 1681
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      "ID": 134
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lothian Health",
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      "ContributionID": 284230,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:24."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C284009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 7506,
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      "ContributionID": 284009,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:33"
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  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284010",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 284010,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, colleagues and visitors in the public galleries. Before we start our business, I will explain why we are here rather than in a committee room. I appreciate that that may cause some difficulties, but this is open and accessible government. As this meeting was scheduled for one of the smaller committee rooms, it would have been impossible for members of the public to have had access to it.I think that I speak for all committee members in saying that one of our primary functions is to ensure that business is conducted in a way that is as open, accessible and public as possible. I hope that when visitors have heard what members say in the next few hours, they will think that it was a good idea to hold the meeting here.When you catch my eye and intimate that you want to speak, I will say your full name. It is not that I am being awfully formal, it is simply that it is helpful for the people who operate the sound system if I say, for example, \"Hugh Henry\", and—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 284013,
      "EditedText": "The first item on our agenda is to pick up where we left off in our discussion of the committee's priorities, which obviously tie in with our work load. All the committees envisage a very heavy work load. You will see at point 3.3 of the work load briefing that work can come to us from a number of sources. That work can be in the form of bills, reports, and items that come through the Public Petitions Committee, as well as items that we, as a committee, decide that we want to put forward ourselves. It is important that we find a way of striking a balance in all that work, although I am sure that we will not always get it right.We should try to carve out for ourselves what we see as our agenda, rather than always having a knee-jerk reaction to the previous day's headlines. Such an approach would be more constructive for us as we plan our future work. To say that I am calling for a little restraint would be putting it too strongly, but we will have to try to get a balanced work load in front of us.The first thing that I want us to talk about is the Arbuthnott report, entitled \"The National Review of Resource Allocation for the NHS in Scotland\". Why am I asking you to look at that as a matter of urgency? There are a few reasons. We have all received a copy of the report—some of us have three or four, I think, as they seem to breed easily. We have also had a covering letter from the Minister for Health and Community Care, Susan Deacon, asking us to consider the report; and Sir John Arbuthnott himself, who has put together a very comprehensive report, is also keen that we should consider it.In her letter, which I have in front of me, Susan is quite specific when she says that she is especially interested that we should consider inequalities in health care. She talks about the development of firm proposals for adding an inequalities adjustment to the proposed allocation formula by the end of the consultation period, which, as you know, is in November. That is added value to what is in the Arbuthnott report, taking it a bit further forward.To tie in with some of the concerns that were raised at our first meeting, I would also like us to consider access to health services in rural areas and the problems associated with that. If we agree to consider Arbuthnott, I would like us to channel our energies into those two broad areas of our remit. I am keen to hear your opinions on that. The benefit of addressing the Arbuthnott report as our first item of business is that it is a specific piece of work with boundaries and confines, but it also picks up on a couple of the issues that the committee has identified as being of interest to us: health inequalities and health delivery in rural areas. We can find ways of adding value to the substantive work that has been done.We must also work within a specific time frame. Everyone knows that there is no end to what we could be doing with our time, but it will be good discipline for the committee to be required to give a formal response by 14 November and to see whether we can rise to that challenge. Some of the issues have previously been raised. I propose that we deal first with \"The National Review of Resource Allocation for the NHS in Scotland\", the Arbuthnott report, and that we then go beyond that to deal with other areas. We can either decide today what our priorities will be after the Arbuthnott report or wait until November. I am open to guidance from the committee on that subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 284015,
      "EditedText": "You will see from the list of suggested witnesses that there are people from health boards and other health institutions. That issue is of the kind that we probably want to investigate with them. The reality is that we must know how to deliver that distribution on the basis of need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 284020,
      "EditedText": "Will we have time later?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 284021,
      "EditedText": "We have three hours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 284023,
      "EditedText": "That is in the priorities paper that is before us today. Some people suggested not only priorities from the form that was handed out, but priorities that were suggested by letters and so on. We will come to that later, but we will deal with Arbuthnott first.I agree with your point about the GPs and I cannot recall why we have two representatives from Tayside, although I am sure that there was a reason for it. It was not expected that we would accept all the names. The people who were suggested had expertise in the areas that we want to examine. We should be prepared to adjust the list of people. Perhaps we will ask Colin Hunter to address us, as Mary suggested, as that would include the GPs' point of view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 284024,
      "EditedText": "I have the same concerns about the people who it is suggested will brief us. The list is unbalanced and will have to be reworked. I also have a problem with the number of people that we want to question on Arbuthnott. I do not think that this committee should be another inquiry. We need to be precise about our terms of reference. We should comment on the Arbuthnott report, not do the work of that committee again. Before we decide which people we want to consult, we should work out what we want to achieve. We need someone to speak about the report—I would like to hear about the committee's methodology and thinking—but we should ask what it would be proper for us to comment on. Unless we do that, we will be into a review and a full reporting process before we know it. Comments have been made about some of the difficulties in rural areas, but when we consider the massive health problems in areas of urban deprivation, we cannot but be aware of where the priorities for tackling ill health and examining resource allocation in Scotland must lie. We must debate public health, to consider not just a reactive approach but a preventive one.Malcolm Chisholm raised a very important point. It would be a complete waste of our time and of that of the Arbuthnott committee if we made comments in the abstract, only to discover that the people who are charged with the responsibility for allocating resources and overseeing the delivery of services are not doing it in the way that is expected. At some point, whether in the early stages of the process or after it is completed, I would like us to consider the way in which health boards are held to account for distributing resources to communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 284026,
      "EditedText": "To follow on from what Margaret said, it is true that there are winners and losers when it comes to resource allocation. I use the word losers loosely, meaning that there is a percentage change in the resources allocated. I want to see a representative from a health board, such as the Borders or Grampian, which will have to cope with a reduction in resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 284030,
      "EditedText": "A winner and a loser."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 284033,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to have a general discussion about Arbuthnott. If everyone was happy that we were going in the correct direction, a sense of what the committee wanted the remit to be with regard to Arbuthnott would become apparent. Having accepted that we wanted to consider Arbuthnott, we then would deal with appendix 3 in the work load priorities document, which deals with how we will do that and who we might want to speak to.There is a progression of thought through our papers. If members are happy for us to consider Arbuthnott and feel that it is time to move on, we can talk about tightening up the remit, and then move on to other matters. I was aware that other people wanted to speak, and I was trying to give them the opportunity to speak on whether we should examine Arbuthnott and on the key issues that should be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 284034,
      "EditedText": "We are getting into the right area now. As Hugh said, we must start by stating what we want to achieve. We should not forget that although the Arbuthnott report is huge—it took a lot of work and it is excellent—it is just an updating of Robin Smith's 1977 committee report on Scottish health authorities revenue equalisation. Many other issues that will confront us will seriously damage the health service in the coming six to nine months unless we deal with them. The timetable that we have been offered for Arbuthnott is too long.I will make a couple of suggestions about the way that we approach this process. I strongly urge that we have an informal briefing. That would be an opportunity for the experts to sit with us—not in front of us—and take us through this complex report and help us understand the difficulties that they faced. I spent most of my three-day summer holiday reading all 500-odd pages of the report. It contains complex arguments, particularly about the statistics. As someone else said, if the basis of those statistics is incorrect, there is a problem with this report.I suggest strongly that our first step should be an informal briefing and that we should decide who we will have at it. Obviously, we should have Arbuthnott himself, and probably one or two people from the list, for example, Richard Copland and Arthur Midwinter. After that, we should ask the experts to leave us and we should spend a short time in an informal meeting deciding on the issues that should be addressed. We could then move on to calling witnesses for evidence.Whether we like it or not, we must spend some time on the statistics in the report. I am a medical researcher and I find them complex. I do not know what other members thought, but I found them very difficult. However, it is the weightings on those statistics and how they were worked out that determine the redistribution effect. From reading the report, I am not convinced that they have got it right, because I do not understand it; I admit that freely.When we get to the point of asking the statisticians on the committee to give evidence to us, I would like us to have experts sit with us. I know that the Parliamentary Bureau has said that they cannot be voting members and that their presence cannot be permanent, but I can suggest the name of someone who should sit with us. Was Richard Copland on the expert committee that produced the report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 284035,
      "EditedText": "Yes, he was part of the steering group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 284038,
      "EditedText": "If it takes up only part of a meeting, it should be all right. One hour out of a two-and-a-half-hour meeting would be okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 284039,
      "EditedText": "That is what I envisage. The work load might be top heavy and then trail off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 284041,
      "EditedText": "Our first course of action should be to ask the clerk to organise an informal briefing. Time might be a bit tight for us to ask the correct people to come to speak to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 284042,
      "EditedText": "It is short notice to get people for the meeting on 15 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 284044,
      "EditedText": "We will take that as the way forward and try to organise a briefing. There is also a meeting on 22 September. If we have managed to get anywhere on arrangements for 22 September, we should be able to discuss that informally on 15 September. However, we should retain the meeting on 22 September, as there will be other things on the agenda. We have three hours to fill, so we will have time on 22 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 284050,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should try to get people here as soon as possible. We will make it known to them that we understand that it will be difficult and that we appreciate that we are asking almost the impossible of them, but that we would greatly appreciate it if they could find the time. After that, the matter is in their hands and those of the clerks, and they can tell us a suitable time. As many of us as possible must be ready to take part in that informal briefing when it is organised. Jennifer Smart and her staff will start that today as a matter of urgency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 284051,
      "EditedText": "As Richard suggested, would a statistician be top of the list? I, too, am always concerned about weightings, as they can be so deceptive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 284059,
      "EditedText": "It is not to give evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 284061,
      "EditedText": "It is simply to give us a good grounding in the report before moving on. Richard and Irene have both said that, on the back of that informal briefing, we should say what our remit is. Obviously we have talked round that today and have an idea of the direction in which we might go, but after the informal briefing, we can tighten that up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 284066,
      "EditedText": "Would the adviser be a civil servant?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 284069,
      "EditedText": "I was thinking along those lines rather than about appointing a civil servant.If nobody has any further comments on the Arbuthnott report, let us discuss other priorities.At our first meeting, we had a long discussion and identified a list of 16 priorities. I was telling a colleague about the problems of having such a large work load. He said that if we thought our list was long, we should look at the Rural Affairs Committee, which identified a list of 36 subjects for consideration and is already adding to the list. We could have gone on and on, so we were disciplined in limiting ourselves to just 16. Our remit is wide and that number will creep up as more issues are raised.We have two options. We could deal with the Arbuthnott report and return to our other priorities afterwards, or—and I think that this is a better idea—we could charge on and discuss what we can tackle immediately after our consideration of Arbuthnott. As I said to Richard, the Arbuthnott report will probably be dealt with in a few weeks' time, and we will be moving into the next part of our work anyway. That will allow us to pre-plan our research back-up and our work with witnesses and rapporteurs.A range of issues for discussion have been listed in the priorities briefing. Some of those issues, such as health inequalities and the rural dimension, are touched on in the Arbuthnott report. Other issues that have arisen over the summer recess, such as letters from people about priorities, have been added to the list. Some issues have had quite a high profile. Hugh Henry's press coverage on the smoking issue has put the rest of us to shame. Tobacco smoking is a high-priority public health issue for the committee as it is a No 1 cause of ill health.We have been told that the committee will be the secondary committee on the adults with incapacity bill, but we do not have the timetable for that. We will of course be given the timetable when it suits others to do so, but the bureau will also give us a date by which we will have to make our submissions. However, because we do not yet have that date, we have to be aware that the matter will have to be slotted into our schedule at some point.Committee members need to be aware that, because of the nature of the subject, we will have to react to serious areas of public concern. Over the next few weeks, I hope to have private discussions with all of you about how you think the committee should react to such issues.  I hope that we shall be able to reach an understanding among ourselves about whether we should discuss a certain issue. Although it would be easy for us to be blown off course, we must react to any areas of public concern that might arise.Is everyone happy to make progress on the next tranche of priorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 284072,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Hugh. We must decide the process before we discuss the myriad subjects that we would love to tackle. We are talking about a programme for three and a half years until the next election, so we must pace ourselves. There are different levels—for example, Arbuthnott must be dealt with, as there is a timetable for consultation. The adults with incapacity bill must be scheduled, but as we are the secondary committee, the timetable will depend on the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. We should group the other matters that we must examine. The second level is reports that we receive. We must schedule when we deal with them. I will mention three. We have had two Accounts Commission reports this year: \"Full House: Theatre Utilisation in Scottish Hospitals\", and \"Implementation of Evidence Based Health Care in Scottish Health Boards\". I presume that we will get a report on cervical screening, which will meet both of Margaret's criteria and must be scheduled. That report will come out in October, so we should take evidence from the health boards then. We must discuss the timetable for examining those reports with the Executive, because there is no point in considering a report on theatre utilisation immediately. The report will contain much information, so we must give the Executive and the health service management executive time, which they should to some extent determine, in which to consider the report and implement its proposals. We should come back a year later and say, \"It is a year since that report—what is being done about it?\" The third level is matters that it is imperative we tackle as a matter of urgency before a crisis arises. Every winter, the health service has a winter emergency admissions crisis. Every winter for the past six years, successive Governments have produced a tranche of money late in the year to deal with a crisis that the health service is already dealing with. Every year, those in the health service say to us, \"How the hell do we open wards, appoint staff and deal with a crisis that we are already two thirds of the way into?\" That is one issue; we must consider whether there are other issues where the timetable is forced on us, because we must deal with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 284075,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to make a similar suggestion. Irene and I have been involved with the Committee of the Regions and we have some knowledge of the European system of rapporteurs. We could either split into smaller groups formally or have up to three reporters working on the same topic. The group, or the reporters, would then report back to the committee, without any prejudice to the committee's final conclusions. The beauty of that system is that it would allow a number of people to work in their own time, in parallel with the work of the committee, and much more work would get done. It would allow a range of members to be involved with topics that are of special interest to them. The committee could have a debate, when the report was presented, about how to progress the matter. There is a lot to commend the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C284081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 284081,
      "EditedText": "That will facilitate more work being done.I take Richard's point that a lot of what we do will be reactive—a lot of issues will arise over the winter—but I am concerned that we should address the bigger picture as well and do some creative thinking. Health inequalities, which have been highlighted, are an issue on which we want to do on-going work but will probably not produce a report on before Christmas, or even Easter. We know that the issue of health inequalities is being discussed and is a priority, but there is an awful lot of work to be done. It is at the cutting edge of radical thinking and it is an area in which we can make a contribution.I will highlight two other priorities on which I think we should do something—perhaps a more limited report. Patient participation is also at the cutting edge of new radical thinking; to some extent we could set the agenda on that, although the Executive is making positive noises about it. We must also address community care soon, because it includes a lot of the new health service and it is where a lot of problems arise. Work on patient participation and on community care must be set in motion before Christmas. I know that that will be very difficult, but sub-groups will facilitate it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 284082,
      "EditedText": "At some point we have to take our foot off the gas and realise that we are just human and cannot keep going at our present pace. I will not push members to go into sub-groups to report back in a fortnight.Malcolm is absolutely right. One of the key things that we must be able to do—as well as undertake our scrutinising role and react to events—is take a few steps back, look at the big health issues across Scotland and do solid, in-depth work. That takes time and resources and I echo what Malcolm said about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 284085,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what Malcolm said about the necessity of our watching community care. As I recall, the most raised issues during the election campaign were to do with community care, the lack of resources and people's inability to access resources. I was disappointed, convener—I hope that it was an omission—that when you listed community care as a work priority and included bedblocking and mental health, no mention was made of the Sutherland report. We cannot look at community care without looking at that report. I am concerned that, although it is widely seen as the way forward, the report has disappeared. It is almost becoming the report that dare not speak its name. I know that there are problems because some of Sutherland's recommendations are linked to social security benefits, which are in Westminster's remit, but there are recommendations that we could consider and that could do something to reduce bedblocking—I am thinking of the three-month disregard—and improve assistance for carers. I hope that that was just an omission, Margaret. We cannot look at community care without looking at the Sutherland report; people would be very disappointed in us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 284086,
      "EditedText": "It was definitely in there somewhere—I remember seeing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 284087,
      "EditedText": "It is on the additional list—that is what worried me. It was not included with community care."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 284089,
      "EditedText": "We are looking to find some order here. Seven key areas are listed on the work load paper, which are the result of the prioritising that we did over the summer. We are going to discuss Arbuthnott, which would seem to take care of quite a lot. Arbuthnott also covers a considerable range—although not all—of health inequalities.Adults with incapacity is a matter that we will deal with in any case—it is timetabled. I do not want to enter the issue of the private finance initiative, as other committees are dealing with it—we will leave that one. We should get down to reality and return to the points made by Kay and Malcolm. Community care really is a top priority. I am not just talking about this year and last year—the situation is getting worse and I believe that there is a crisis that the committee has to address responsibly, professionally, honestly and openly. If all we do outwith the set agenda is address that huge issue, it would be wonderful. I suggest that, apart from our statutory obligations, we concentrate on community care and addiction. I know that I have a thing about dental decay, which did not come up in the seven priorities, but it is not a dreadfully complicated issue to cover. It could be included in the priorities that the committee, with a degree of consensus, has identified. That would give us a bit of order on which to build our programme for the year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 284098,
      "EditedText": "It depends on when a situation arises."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 284102,
      "EditedText": "Yes, an item would have to be agreed by the convener and the committee before it could be put on a supplementary agenda for this committee to consider. Items cannot be raised without notice having been given."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 284106,
      "EditedText": "I am not going to consider the issue in detail at the moment—there will be another opportunity—but the suggestion that child cardiac surgery for the whole of Scotland should be confined to just one hospital is of great importance and must be dealt with soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 284109,
      "EditedText": "The issue of child cardiac surgery is of concern to all of us. We will have to look at acute services reviews and other such things. We are all learning about what is the best way for us to function in this Parliament and to work for our constituents. We will have to suck it and see. I would like to turn the discussion back towards the working priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 284110,
      "EditedText": "Margaret, you might rule me out of order, but I think that Dorothy's point is important. This committee must not start jumping in to react to various issues. If I have a problem with, for example, cervical screening, I talk to my health board chairman. Once the Executive decides to set up an inquiry—as it has on cervical screening—our job is to question that inquiry and examine its report. If we jump up and down about every issue, even if it is of national importance, the committee will not function. We have other methods at our disposal, such as petitions. We can use parliamentary questions to ask precisely what the Executive plans to do about one matter or another. I do not want this committee to second guess the Executive before it has had a chance to tackle the problem.I will return to the issue at hand. We have said that we have to tackle any bills that we are required to examine and that we have to tackle reports in a logical order. We have prioritised three reports: the Arbuthnott report, the cervical screening report, which is timetabled for October, and the report of the Sutherland committee, which relates to another area.We have topics—such as tobacco—and we have issues. The issue that I suggest we consider is community care, which includes bed-blocking and winter emergencies. That is an issue that we have to tackle immediately.We should discuss in about a month's time where the other things that we have listed should be slotted in. By that time, we will have had notice from the Executive of all the other reports, so we will be able to review the situation. If, in the case of the junior doctors—I come back to Dorothy's point—the negotiations proceed to a point where we wish to make an input, that is when we should do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 284113,
      "EditedText": "What I wanted to say is that during this Parliament the committee should examine the different aspects of addiction—addiction to drugs, smoking and alcohol—that have a terrible impact on Scotland.I hear what Dr Simpson is saying about drugs. At the moment, all committees are trying to do the same thing as we are—set their priorities and see how the reports that they must handle dovetail. When we talk about cross-cutting and committees working together, drugs is an issue that keeps coming up. I would not like to jump the gun by setting up a separate committee until we have worked with others to decide what is the most effective way to examine the issue. We should be ready to work on the issue to the same timetable and alongside other committees. However, it will take at least a few months before all the committees can arrange a time when they can do that.I am keen that we consider the smoking issue. I am not pre-empting our decision or saying that there should be a ban—I am not saying anything of the sort—but smoking is the No 1 public health issue and the committee has to make it very clear that that is its view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 284116,
      "EditedText": "What about housing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 284117,
      "EditedText": "Poverty is the number one health issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 284123,
      "EditedText": "Will you bring back to the committee the resolution of discussions with other conveners, so that we can plan ahead?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 284125,
      "EditedText": "I want to talk about community care, and about how we will work with our colleagues on the Local Government Committee, because community care impinges on social work departments. I have to be honest: in my previous life, PFI was the burning issue, but it is not the burning issue with the electorate that I serve—community care is. How are we to kick off the process of engaging with our colleagues in local government? Nine times out of 10, those are the people who are carrying out the assessment.Kay Ullrich mentioned her previous life, too. We need to ensure that the health and social services are interlinked and that health boards are committed to providing funding. The system of resource transfer is not working and we must consider in detail why that is the case. It works in some local authority areas and not in others, which has a knock-on effect. Should we examine that problem from a health perspective, to assess what the health gain could be? Will it reduce bedblocking, or will the health service claim that it is an issue for local government?We must be careful how we pull together all the strands of this problem. The public are aware that there is not a seamless transition between departments with responsibility for community care. We need to hone in on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 284127,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Kay and with Margaret. Poverty and community care, rather than a single issue such as smoking, should be at the top of our agenda. We could almost write the smoking report in advance. All it would say is, \"Smoking is a bad thing.\" How much would be spent on that?If we widen our scope to include the problem of poverty, we will include smoking and other specific health issues, but we will also include community care. Most of the recipients of so-called community care are people who have been reduced to poverty because of their disabilities. There is enormous need, and it is all due to poverty and poor housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3516682+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 284128,
      "EditedText": "There has been a good discussion about how we ought to focus on various priority issues. I am glad that Margaret Jamieson raised the subject of community care. There is a danger that the Executive and this committee may look at the issue simply from a medical perspective. We must not forget the role that social workers and local authorities have to play.Duncan Hamilton mentioned the structure of the national health service, which raises a number of important questions. Who is responsible for the delivery of community care? How is integration with local authority services arranged? Who is responsible for bedblocking? Who is responsible for distribution of funds? If we are to achieve anything over the next four years, we must scrutinise the structures, methods of operation and effectiveness of the health boards. We may not have time to do it today, but we must at some point come back to the question of how to ensure that the health board system is the best way of achieving what is necessary. Although we will be busy dealing with reports and legislation, I do not want to lose sight of the issue that Richard Simpson raised. We are anticipating what we will be working on during the winter and it would be remiss of us to mention things now and forget to follow them through for the next couple of months.The rapporteur system will allow work on a number of issues to continue. Ben Wallace raised some points about health promotion, sport and health education, and such issues could be worked on. Is it possible to set aside time every meeting—or every second meeting—for rapporteurs to report back to the committee? That would allow us to carry out a range of work and to have the opportunity to report back—at the discretion of the convener—and hold a short discussion. It would allow us to timetable work more productively and to do much more work than we would otherwise. It would almost allow every member to go away and work on a range of issues.We need to examine the standing orders to see whether they specify that a committee should have one reporter. We need some flexibility, because in some cases it would benefit the committee if a couple of members worked on an issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 284134,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that. On the broader matter of drugs, Kay is right. There is a range of substances—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 284136,
      "EditedText": "My point is about procedure. Richard suggested a separate committee to deal with some of the work, which, frankly, I had not thought about. I do not know whether at an early meeting—it is a bit early for the next meeting—there could be a paper considering ways to move the matter forward. At least then we would have something before us that laid out the options—either the Health and Community Care Committee deals with it, there is a separate cross-cutting committee or there is a separate committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 284139,
      "EditedText": "All of us must be allowed to take forward issues—drugs is one that we will be interested in. There will be several, and the standing orders must give us the flexibility to produce good work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 284141,
      "EditedText": "I took your comment on board, Kay. I asked everybody whether they were happy to go forward using the term \"smoking\", and they said yes, so the issue is now smoking. There are issues for us to consider for our remit on community care and smoking, such as how to take those areas forward most productively and cross-cutting with other committees, particularly on community care. That will give members a chance to think about those issues and their behind-the-scenes involvement in the initial work load before the matter comes back formally to the committee. Planning to revisit community care and smoking at a future meeting takes us forward on those issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priorities",
      "HeadingID": 7507,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 7507,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 284143,
      "EditedText": "I have been quite clear on the procedural reasons that lead me to think that more valuable work will be done on that important issue by the Parliament if we exercise a bit of restraint. In a few months, I hope that we will be able to come back to that issue and work in a much more effective and integrated way. I do not think that any member of this committee would consider drugs not to be a key current issue for Scotland. To ensure that we handle it well, we must be prepared to wait until we settle into our committees and until we know the best way for us to work together in tackling the problem. There might be the option of setting up an ad hoc committee. There has to be some cross-committee work; the conveners committee is starting to think along those lines. We need to allow ourselves some time to ensure that we tackle the matter properly. I assure members that we will not in any way forget about the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 284150,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 on the agenda is an invitation to the Minister for Health and Community Care to come to speak to us. We had a good meeting yesterday. Susan answered all our questions very well and it was good to be able to have her at a committee meeting so early, although the situation was slightly unusual in comparison with what we are discussing now. We are inviting her to talk on a wide spectrum of health issues and to tell us how she views her role in carrying out the Executive's work plan and in working with the committee.I want to ask two questions. We have invited the minister, but does the committee want Iain Gray, the junior minister, to come with her? I see from the number of members nodding that the answer is yes, so we will extend an invitation to him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 284154,
      "EditedText": "Yes. She invited herself to both meetings because of the circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 284158,
      "EditedText": "My take on that is that there are two things that we must consider. The first is that there are several years ahead of us, and no doubt there will be any number of occasions on which we will call the minister in to talk to us about particular issues.It would be good for the committee to kick off with a general discussion with Susan Deacon about how she sees the programme being put into practice. We would be able to raise some of the issues that we have talked about among ourselves. We have to give her prior notice, so that she can find spaces in her diary. An element of courtesy is involved in such a discussion with the minister, but it does not mean that we will not be able to ask her to talk to us about issues that we might be concerned about in future. This is the starting point for a relationship between the committee and the Minister for Health and Community Care and the Deputy Minister for Community Care. I am not setting up the meeting as some great panacea, but I feel that an initial meeting with the minister will be a useful exercise for both sides. In that respect, it will be a one-off. In the future, we will call her to talk to us about particular issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 284161,
      "EditedText": "The highest-ranking minister needed to be there?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 284166,
      "EditedText": "I, for one, will not turn down the minister when she feels that she wants to speak to us. A key part of our job is to hold the Executive to account, to scrutinise the minister and to ensure that she is ever mindful of the fact that we exist. However, it is also part of our job to work with her to deliver the best possible health care. A good relationship between the committee and the minister, established at an early stage, is to be encouraged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C284167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 284167,
      "EditedText": "While it is important to have a positive and constructive relationship with the minister, from what has been said this morning I fear that we are trying to be a bit too prescriptive. I do not want things to be sanitised—I would like to think that we could be evolutionary in our approach, and try out ideas. Convener, you suggested in our first meeting that we should suck it and see, and sometimes I think we just have to do that. We cannot sit down and say that this is precisely what we should or should not have. I agree with Hugh that it is important to make good use of the minister's time. With a degree of good will and flexibility, the convener can use her discretion. It would be wrong to be too bureaucratic and rigorous. There should be flexibility, to take into account some of the issues that Dorothy raised earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 284168,
      "EditedText": "Following the documents that have been published in the past two and a half years, we could ask the minister to find out about the health service's performance in terms of implementation. For example, where are we in terms of  \"Towards a Healthier Scotland\"? Is good practice emerging? Is someone running ahead of the rest? We should be taking stock. Where are we? Where are we going? Are there problem areas? How does the action that has been taken meet the objectives that the minister and the Executive set this week? We will know whether there are problems in meeting those objectives in our areas. We should have the opportunity to talk to Geoff Scaife, who has to implement the objectives. I would like us to talk to Susan Deacon about an area that has caused the health service concern for many years, which is that it receives money only year on year. The budget is not indicated for the following years, so planning is a problem. Those in the health service should have an idea of funding for the next five years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C284169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 284169,
      "EditedText": "It is three now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C284170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 284170,
      "EditedText": "The period is three now, but is that sufficient? We need to ask the service whether that is enough time, because year on year was not helpful. Three years is a bit better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 284173,
      "EditedText": "May I suggest that each of us has the opportunity to lodge a question through you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C284175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 284175,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Henry—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 284176,
      "EditedText": "That's all right, Wallace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Health Minister (Invitation)",
      "HeadingID": 7508,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ID": 7508,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 284182,
      "EditedText": "You are hammering it, Dorothy. I will not allow that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 284186,
      "EditedText": "With regard to questioning the CMO, the Rural Affairs Committee can deal with whatever it wants, but the issue of new-variant CJD and how it relates to BSE is a detailed and technical subject, and there are many related issues, such as the unit in Edinburgh, how it is funded, how long it will exist, and what predictions can be made. I can think of a good half-hour of questioning on the health issue alone that I would like to ask. I am slightly concerned. We have dealt with the medical aspects of shellfish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 284187,
      "EditedText": "Quite exhaustively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 284190,
      "EditedText": "I do not see what they will question the CMO about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C284193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 284193,
      "EditedText": "On health issues relating to that matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 284194,
      "EditedText": "No, we deal with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Jennifer Smart: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 284195,
      "EditedText": "We deal with food safety because it is within the remit of this committee. When considering these matters, our role is to examine aspects of food safety."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 284196,
      "EditedText": "The CMO and the Rural Affairs Committee should come to us for this issue. That is not being territorial. The whole of this committee may want to question the CMO on the health and public safety issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C284199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 7509,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ID": 7509,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 284199,
      "EditedText": "I strongly agree. This is a procedural issue which the clerk should be asked to take away. This committee has priority, and if the Rural Affairs Committee wishes to call the CMO at a later point, it can do so. If, however, it wants to ask questions on food safety and on public health safety, it is infringing on the prerogative of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C284207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 284207,
      "EditedText": "In that case let us be damned on the side of information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C284215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Conveners Group Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 7510,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ID": 7510,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 284215,
      "EditedText": "I notice that there are several dozen people in the public gallery who have come from Angus, no doubt at their own expense. I hope that, in future, representatives of the committee, if not the whole committee, can be sent to Angus to find out what is happening. Visits to destinations further afield would involve an overnight stay, and we do not know whether money is available for that.I am mindful of what has been written in the Daily Record. I do not think that the Daily Record is always wrong, but I agree that we should be living at a humble, boarding-house level when we travel round Scotland. It is essential that we are seen to be a Scottish Parliament and not an Edinburgh Parliament, as is perceived by most of the public outside Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C284226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lothian Health",
      "HeadingID": 7511,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 7511,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 284226,
      "EditedText": "I concur with Margaret on this. I do not think that it is appropriate if one health board invites itself along, although I know that it has been done with all the best will in the world. We have all been at briefings from the local health boards in our constituencies, and in other constituencies for those of us who are health spokespersons. It is important to maintain the balance—we are here for all the people of Scotland. Where would it end: Edinburgh this week, Glasgow the next week? We are on a tight schedule anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1681
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Lothian Health",
      "HeadingID": 7511,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ID": 7511,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 284227,
      "EditedText": "Is that the general feeling of the committee? If that is the general feeling—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.367293+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 104508,
      "EditedText": "My question was whether you think the morale of the teaching profession is as it should be; if not, why not; and what steps you, as a minister, can take to improve the situation.I am sure that most teachers and parents agree that there are two sides to this, and that both sides have to show a willingness to compromise. I am sure that you also agree that teachers have concerns about trends in education. Are you, as Minister for Children and Education, and someone who was elected on a pledge to lower class sizes, happy that the limit on composite class sizes should be increased from 25 to 30—a measure that will affect almost 100,000 children?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 104590,
      "EditedText": "I have three questions about the role of HM inspectors of schools. First, there seems to be an inconsistency in the body of the consultation document. Page 16 deals with the proposal to allow HMI to inspect local authorities and states that\"The inspection of education authorities is a new and major development, but the approach will not be imposed.\"Page 35 lists three types of inspection. The wording sounds as if the system of inspection will be compulsory. For example, the proposed regular periodic inspections\"will allow Ministers to put a programme of inspections in place under which all authorities are inspected at least once in the next five years.\"On the face of it, Sam, that is a bit of a contradiction. Can you clarify the situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2129,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 104431,
      "EditedText": "As members are aware, we had a lengthy discussion in the pre-meeting on the on-going negotiations about teachers' pay and conditions. SNP members—and others—expressed the view that that was possibly the central issue facing the education system at present; it could certainly undermine the Government's commendable agenda of improvement in education. Lengthy discussion took place about whether questions to the minister on that issue would be appropriate and in order. A majority of Labour and Liberal Democrat members seemed to take the view that the minister was to be protected from such questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4270101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2129,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 104433,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish public—teachers and parents—would find it rather strange that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4270101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2129,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 104435,
      "EditedText": "I am asking for a ruling on whether questions on the teachers' pay and conditions negotiations will be out of order. The Scottish public would find such a ruling rather strange."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4270101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2129,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 104439,
      "EditedText": "But—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4270101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 104479,
      "EditedText": "I know that we are anxious to get on to the details of the bill, but while we are on the issue of wider consultation—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4426355+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 104481,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the comments in the bill about partnership and I think that that approach is to be commended. As the bill progresses through the legislative process, I hope—I dare say that the view is shared by some of my colleagues—that we have an opportunity to build in mechanisms to foster a partnership approach in practice and not simply in rhetoric.One of the commitments in the partnership agreement that I found interesting was the commitment to establish an education forum to review and raise standards in schools. As you know, Sam, I have raised that issue with you on many occasions. Will you be bringing forward concrete proposals for the forum as part of the consultation process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4426355+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 104665,
      "EditedText": "On the contrary, I think that it is important that negotiations continue. The danger at the moment is that both sides are taking increasingly fixed positions. If we can investigate ways in which the deadlock can be broken, we should go ahead and do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 104667,
      "EditedText": "In that case, everything will be fine, but if it does not, I would like to think that this committee had in the meantime done everything in its power to bring about a speedy solution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 104672,
      "EditedText": "Nobody is suggesting that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2129,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Mary Mulligan): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 104428,
      "EditedText": "Good morning everyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2129,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 104434,
      "EditedText": "What is your point of order, Nicola?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 104443,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 104451,
      "EditedText": "I have two points—one will be easy to answer, the other might not be. Would Sam or Peter acknowledge that it would be worthwhile for every local authority to address this issue in every school, whether at a pupil forum level or at a management meeting? I had better watch what I am saying, as John Smith has arrived.My second question alludes to the vexed issue that we were discussing at the start. To what extent do you believe that our consultation process on what Nicola Sturgeon has called a commendable piece of legislation will be coloured by the continuing impasse between the local authorities and the teaching unions on terms and conditions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 104453,
      "EditedText": "And the answer to my first question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 104454,
      "EditedText": "I was in Glasgow and I saw that all the schools were involved in addressing the issue. Local authorities have a duty to consult as widely as possible and to bring to us a role for their schools, parents, teachers, managers or whoever. My impression is that local authorities are doing that. Peter has probably spoken to more local authorities than I have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 104459,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. I have the same view as Peter does on this. Whenever I go on consultation, I like the formal part of the meeting to break up quickly and I spend double the time chatting to people because that is when those who are less able to convey their views can do so. Before a meeting with some pupils this week, I spent some time just talking to them without their teachers—I immediately separated the kids from the one teacher who came into the room—and I spent time with them afterwards as well. Informal discussion, in a formal setting, is a very useful tool."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 104460,
      "EditedText": "Nicola?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 104464,
      "EditedText": "Peter, if you start to answer that, I shall come in later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 104467,
      "EditedText": "Fiona, do you want to bring this part of the meeting to an end?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 104470,
      "EditedText": "It would be unfair to say that we are thinking about that issue only as of today. A copy of the consultation document has been sent to every school and pupil forum, with the intention that it will encourage debate. The youth parliament has been asked to have such a debate. The structure of that parliament, as members are probably aware, means that its decisions are supported in a range of forums throughout Scotland. We have spoken to Young Scot, and young people are being invited to every meeting. We are making an effort at such meetings to engage with young people in particular. It would not be fair to characterise our approach as unstructured, but I would be more than happy to add things to it. Our intention is to engage with young people on this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 104474,
      "EditedText": "Halfway through the consultation process, we clearly have no strategy for consultation with young people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 104475,
      "EditedText": "I think that there has been as much consultation on this bill as I have experienced anywhere else. The minister and Peter Peacock are to be congratulated on that.There is a wider issue about consultation on legislation in general. All of us in local government became used to being presented with bills for consultation that had to be returned within a month—sometimes less than that. I hope that we have seen the back of that kind of sham consultation. The committee should draw the issue to the attention of the Scottish Executive and ask it to bring forward a formal approach, taking into account some of the questions that we have raised today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 104477,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I do. I agree with Ian Welsh about consultation; I made a similar point in the culture debate last week. The way in which we consult is important and the principle that people could contribute was one of the ideas we used to sell the Parliament.We have to be careful when we talk about a six-week deadline for consulting young people. It is not desperately important to consult them about whether local authorities should be inspected, for example. Much of the bill's content is not of particular interest to young people. I am not saying that it is a bad thing to consult them, but it is not the most important thing. It is more important to take their views into consideration beyond the six-week period. Six weeks is a statutory time limit that relates to consultation for this bill, but improving education is a long-term goal and the mechanisms for doing that should be considered carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 104486,
      "EditedText": "I shall introduce those proposals as soon as possible, Nicola. I am not attempting to delay them, but I have to give the issue careful consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 104487,
      "EditedText": "I have said that the document recognises the value of the community and parents and that community-parent partnerships play an important part in ensuring that children receive good education and support. As local schools also need to have communities and parents as partners, it is important for the community to be involved in the consultation. We sometimes forget the role that communities can play. Local authorities that are involved in consultations should be urged to involve community organisations and parents. Communities and parents should also be encouraged to form partnerships to make schools work, because parents should work alongside teachers to support their children's education. Although I value the document's emphasis on partnerships, we need to remember that communities and parents are equal partners and that we need to be at the table as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 104489,
      "EditedText": "That is true, Sam, but it scares the hell out of many parents and members of the community to go into a school. Such a partnership will never happen unless we can break down some of those barriers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 104492,
      "EditedText": "For local authorities, the school spend is often one of the largest—if not the largest—spends in a community. Given that the document has many laudable proposals for community schools, which I fully support, and that schools have had more involvement in adult education, surely the issue involves the wider community. The document contains a section on school boards. Those of us who have been councillors are aware of the problems of getting people to stand for school boards. Has consideration been given to involving community councils, which are the lowest officially recognised rung of democracy, in connecting with the wider community? I ask that because there has been a move to a more holistic approach to environmental and other improvements in a community, whereby community councils and other agencies can access funding. Such an approach can often be productive with schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C104494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 104494,
      "EditedText": "In a number of authorities, home-school community partnership officers have been appointed. Has consideration been given to how they can help to involve parents, particularly those from excluded communities, in the consultation process? Their role is to involve parents in their children's education and to encourage the involvement of schools in the community."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 104504,
      "EditedText": "We will look at that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 104505,
      "EditedText": "Can we move on to wider issues in the paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 104509,
      "EditedText": "You are very clever—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 104519,
      "EditedText": "Morale can always be improved—the teachers are no different from any other profession. We are delivering significant things on our side to enhance morale: the introduction of classroom assistants; an increase in the number of teachers; an 8 per cent increase in the budget; additional capital for schools; information technology in schools; continuing professional development. We are putting teachers and pupils at the centre. I hope that the contribution we are making will be recognised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 104525,
      "EditedText": "Will the minister give way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 104526,
      "EditedText": "I would like to finish first. On the question of reading journals, I read five or six journals a month."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 104527,
      "EditedText": "Everybody wants in on that point, Sam. You have obviously caused a stir."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 104529,
      "EditedText": "You suggested that Mr Galbraith is denigrating the teaching profession. The fact is that he is going out of his way to rush around Scotland trying to lift the morale of teachers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 104530,
      "EditedText": "I hope that he does so in a way that is different from how he does it in this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 104532,
      "EditedText": "Why is it not working so far? Why are we in the state that we are in today as regards the event about which I am not allowed to talk?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 104534,
      "EditedText": "None of us expects a relative period of stability in the next few months. Could stability be secured by allocating resources to secure a settlement that will please teachers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 104542,
      "EditedText": "My point about the national grid for learning was that it is a good illustration of how, ultimately, we can help to relieve the burden on teachers in the classroom in a variety of ways. The national grid for learning is often seen simply in terms of the pupil advantages, but there are potentially huge advantages for teachers who will be able to share information across the network of schools in Scotland. I am struck by how isolated teachers can become in their own classroom and in their own subject over time. Teachers write lesson plans, conducting research for their future teaching tasks, but that means that they are repeating the work that two teachers did two nights before somewhere else in Scotland. We need to get teachers connected to one another, and to create a means by which they are able to do that to a far greater extent, exchanging not only materials but ideas.The national grid for learning, with the infrastructure that goes with it, will potentially release that opportunity in a way that has never before existed. By using technology, although it is only one illustration, we can help to free up time for teachers to undertake other forms of professional development. I can see that the day will come when, by using technology, teachers will be in conference with other teachers elsewhere in Scotland—perhaps in the evenings, perhaps during the day, depending on the structure of their time. Although that approach is not available now, we must start to move down those routes. There are ways of helping to contribute to ideas about continuing professional development that are not immediately obvious but that are beginning to become available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 104543,
      "EditedText": "Peter and I could debate the national grid for learning for the rest of the week. Access to information needs time—both to get the information and to use it—and that is the point that I was trying to make.The second point that I have is on composite classes. Everything should be evidence-based and you clearly said, Sam, that there was no educational reason why composite classes should not be the same size as one-stream classes. I would like to see the evidence for that, and most parents would too. A composite class of 30 pupils maximum, which is what you are proposing, means that a teacher will teach an age range of almost two years. That is a phenomenal range. If educational research shows that class sizes should be reduced for better educational outcomes, surely it follows that increasing composite class sizes will result in educational non-benefit. I would like to see the research on which you based that decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 104546,
      "EditedText": "I am not saying, and I do not want parents to think, that being in a composite class is a disadvantage. I just want the evidence about the size of the class."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 104548,
      "EditedText": "Peter, it is a completely different situation having seven pupils across a seven-year age range in a rural school from having 24 or 30 pupils across a two-year age range. The numbers make a big difference. If you are so convinced that larger composite classes are not a problem, why has Aberdeenshire Council said that it will revisit the settlement because it is not happy about the increase in composite class sizes?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 104551,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Mr Welsh and share his concern about stability. We require time to let the situation settle down and consider what we should do. We must start the process of building up professionalism and morale to deliver our agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 104553,
      "EditedText": "Briefly, please."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 104554,
      "EditedText": "I reserve a right to come back to this as we consider the bill. I was pleased that the mission statement said that we wanted to be inclusive and offer opportunity for all. Not enough mention is made in this document about children with special educational needs. We need a more significant push on that. I have two children, of whom one is very bright and one has special educational needs. I would rather that resources were applied to the child with special educational needs than the child who is going to get three or four As at higher. The document has a motherhood statement about being inclusive, but we must follow that with practical action for the most vulnerable children in the school community."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 104556,
      "EditedText": "Are you saying that there will be something further in the bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 104557,
      "EditedText": "We will produce the Riddell report soon. We have already put in additional resources: £5 million for speech and language therapy; additional funding for in-service training; and another £1 million for training. We will continue to progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 104558,
      "EditedText": "Resources are important, but there are other fundamental issues. I am proud of Scottish schools, but we must improve social inclusion for children with special educational needs—not only disabled children, but the 20 per cent of children at that end of the spectrum. We must ensure that schools and teachers are open, inclusive and responsive. We must have a practical discussion about this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 104559,
      "EditedText": "I will pick up two of the points that Ian has made and link them. I have visited two special educational needs schools recently. Those do fabulous work and we need to talk more about the good work that is being done in those schools. However, those schools did not know what was happening in other special educational needs schools in Scotland. We must share good practice. I take Ian's point about practical impediments. We must find ways of removing those so that the best practice is carried out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 104562,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that the committee will want to follow up on that, because there are concerns about how it is included in the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 104564,
      "EditedText": "It is always open to parents to take action through the civil law, and judicial review is open to them. Appropriately, that duty is placed on us. It is important that when everyone else has a duty placed on them, we have duties placed on us in order to focus us on the responsibilities of the agenda. Ministers are answerable to Parliament and to this committee and are held accountable to the electorate at the end of the day, even although we are not personally involved in the day-to-day management of the schools. In the final analysis, it is always open to individuals to have recourse to the civil courts in order to deal with these matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 104566,
      "EditedText": "As I said, redress is available through the civil procedures of the law."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 104568,
      "EditedText": "Brian, that would be no change on the current position. It has always been the case that if parents thought that an education authority or a school was failing to fulfil its statutory duty, they had recourse to the law. As you know, that is why those duties are written into statutes and legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 104569,
      "EditedText": "You are trying to define more clearly what the current position is on local authorities, and you are placing a new duty on the Scottish ministers. Following your previous answer, if St Mary's Episcopal Primary School in Dunblane were to witness a fall in standards after it came under local authority management, would you have funds put aside to deal with the compensation claims?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 104576,
      "EditedText": "They already have it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 104578,
      "EditedText": "I draw your attention to the heading on page 45, entitled \"Self-Governing Schools\", and to paragraph 2, where it states:\"The Scottish Executive believes that schools are properly managed within the framework of the local authority\".I also draw your attention to the heading on page 7, entitled \"Schools are the Centres of Improvement\", and to paragraph 3, where it states:\"But schools must operate in the framework of challenge and support provided by the local authority\".Why are there no plans to change the status of Jordanhill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 104581,
      "EditedText": "The motivation of this part of the bill was to get rid of a rather nasty and divisive piece of legislation relating to self-governing schools. That is our commitment and that is what we are doing. Jordanhill has never figured in that framework. On the other hand, the school is subject to the same inspection regime and support mechanisms as others. It can also have access to a range of local authority support mechanisms if it so wishes.To answer Mr Monteith's question directly, the school is in a different situation and there are no plans to alter its status."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 104586,
      "EditedText": "To what extent might section 94 of the Local Government (Scotland) Finance Act 1973 help projects that could not be dealt with by public-private partnerships? To what extent will it be possible to use section 94 across authority boundaries? It might be possible for a school in an urban area to go heavily into public-private partnerships and for the Government money then to go to another school. It is a very thorny subject and the authorities would kick up hell about it, but I am thinking about how to get cash into rural schools that badly need it, such as those in my area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 104589,
      "EditedText": "Coming from West Lothian, where expansion is rapid, I share your concerns about how the formula operates, Jamie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 104593,
      "EditedText": "I was not aware that that was COSLA's view. Peter may want to comment on that. The Accounts Commission is also involved, so HMI will not be the only body carrying out inspections. I believe that HMI is the appropriate body. It will inspect the educational functions of local authorities, which it has skills in doing. HMI has already been invited to carry out inspections by several local authorities, which value the inspectorate's opinion. After all, inspections are designed to enhance roles, to identify areas where provision can be improved and to suggest ways in which improvements can be achieved. I am delighted that Nicola agrees that education authorities should be inspected, which is one of the important proposals in the bill. We cannot continue to inspect schools without inspecting the people who are responsible for much of the delivery within them. We must ensure that all parts of the system work fully and properly. That is what brings value. Peter will say something about COSLA's view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 104594,
      "EditedText": "Thankfully, I am no longer responsible for COSLA's view. I am not fully up to speed with Nicola's point—it would be best to approach COSLA about that—and I may have misunderstood, but I thought that what COSLA had discussed was an improvement agency and the mechanisms for supporting improvement and change once those needs had been identified. It did not talk about identifying the necessary improvements and changes.A number of authorities have volunteered for the inspection process, because they see getting an objective, external eye as a constructive means of self-examination. The situation is not unique in public administration. HM inspectors carry out complete inspections of police, fire and social work authorities. The important thing to remember is that HMI has unique insights into how education works. Its inspectors are in a privileged position—very few other people, if any, go into classrooms and hear about the impact that administration has on schools, as well as listening to a whole variety of points of view and holding discussions with education authorities. It seems to me that they are well placed to lead the inspection. Inspections will be carried out against criteria—that have yet to be developed—on what constitutes a good education authority. There will be some agreement on those criteria between the inspectorate and COSLA directors of education, who are working on them now. The inspectors will use their skills to inspect against those criteria. The inspection team will be complemented by another professional from a local authority education service who understands intimately what happens in local authorities. A number of inspectors have been in senior administrative positions in local authorities; they have not just been teachers. We are in no doubt that it would be best for the inspectorate to lead, but the system would be moderated by what I have described."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 104601,
      "EditedText": "I warn the committee that we have less than 15 minutes left. As several members still wish to raise issues, members should keep questions short and sweet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 104604,
      "EditedText": "The normal procedure is that guidance notes are circulated for wide consultation. I do not see a problem with the point that you raised, Karen. You mentioned the ring-fencing of moneys that go to local authorities—an issue that ranges wider than the scope of this committee, as you realised. Currently, the pre-school grant is a specific grant. The provision of pre-school education should be made a statutory duty—partly to ensure that expenditure on pre-school education is used for that purpose once the moneys have been tipped in with other grant-aided expenditure. Local authorities would have to provide it, on a statutory basis. I am sympathetic to the idea of ring-fencing, although I can hear howls of protest from local authorities and COSLA. This is an important issue that will continue to be debated. I see that the idea of further amounts being ring-fenced has Ian Welsh musing slightly over his pen. I do not think that it would be useful for me to say more than that at the moment, but I do have some sympathy with the concept. Peter, you are a local authority man. Do you want to get involved in this widening debate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 104605,
      "EditedText": "The way to guarantee that resources flow through is through the statutory duty to provide pre-school education. Such are the resource allocations available to local authorities that, with that statutory duty, I cannot see how they could divert the money to any other purpose and continue to fulfil their statutory duty. The resources would flow from enacting the proposal in the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C104615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 104615,
      "EditedText": "We have talked about external evaluation and about HMI coming in. We have talked about \"How good is your school?\" and school self-evaluation and the importance of that. What is not so clear is what the local authority's role is in evaluation. My experience is that the local authority comes in and does a trial run before a full inspection. The relationship between external evaluation, local authority evaluation and school self-evaluation needs to be looked at a little more."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 104624,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 104633,
      "EditedText": "No. It is our intention to ensure that everyone achieves the highest possible standards in our schools. That is the way forward, rather than having a demoralising regime of competition. I want every school to attain the highest possible standards and every child to achieve his or her potential."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 104635,
      "EditedText": "Thanks very much. We would be happy to come back at any time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 104638,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that we should invite the minister to deal with that subject; it would be more useful to invite representatives of the two negotiating parties. It would be meaningless to put the minister on the spot at this stage. The deadlock will be broken by the result of the teachers' ballot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 104640,
      "EditedText": "With all due respect, do you want the minister to throw a pot of gold at an unresolved situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 104641,
      "EditedText": "I remind members to speak through the chair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 104644,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to defer to you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 104645,
      "EditedText": "The tripartite negotiations are important but, as has been said, Hampden needs an immediate answer. We will want the minister here next Tuesday to answer questions on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 104650,
      "EditedText": "I have asked questions in every conceivable forum since July and have not received answers. The committee will want to know whether the National Stadium is paying its bills and can operate as a national stadium."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 104651,
      "EditedText": "It is obviously up to the minister to deal with Hampden, but I take on board Fiona's point that this committee may have concerns about it. If the committee has concerns about Hampden, I am happy to invite the minister to discuss it. Is that the feeling of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 104654,
      "EditedText": "What is our locus in this? Is it because the Government is a minority funder?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 104655,
      "EditedText": "The Government is not a minority funder; £40 million of the £63 million is public money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 104656,
      "EditedText": "You are talking about lottery funding, which is separate from our powers. There are other funders, including Glasgow City Council. We need to get this into perspective. Nobody is more interested than I am in ensuring that the blessed Hampden is financially stable. I wish that it had never been bloody built. It is not a pressing issue for this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 104662,
      "EditedText": "It could be put to a vote of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 104663,
      "EditedText": "May I finish? It is up to the committee to decide whether it wants to deal with this matter. I suggest that we leave it on the table to be discussed along with the other issues that the committee needs to deal with. It may be that members will agree that we put Hampden at the top of the agenda, but we must consider that alongside other issues.First, I want to deal with the teachers' wage settlement and whether we want to invite the minister and, as Ian suggested, the other two negotiating parties—the teachers and management—to discuss it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 104671,
      "EditedText": "I agree that if we are not seen to be asking questions, people will be surprised; I really feel that. However, I would be upset if we appeared to be trying to do the negotiation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 104673,
      "EditedText": "Well, there has been some suggestion along those lines. That is the agenda that seems to be being pursued. It would be fine for us to have exploratory questions sessions, but I do not think that we can try to solve the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 509.0,
      "ContributionID": 104675,
      "EditedText": "I hope so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 515.0,
      "ContributionID": 104678,
      "EditedText": "In the spirit of the new politics, a compromise should be possible in this committee. I hope that that would be welcomed by Labour members, too. However, we can do things the other way; we can take entrenched positions—as committee members did this morning—and create difficulties. Alternatively, we can make the sort of compromise that we are working on. It is up to the members around this table."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 521.0,
      "ContributionID": 104681,
      "EditedText": "I do not have a diary on me, but I believe that 15 September is next Wednesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 523.0,
      "ContributionID": 104682,
      "EditedText": "We should take the following Wednesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 525.0,
      "ContributionID": 104683,
      "EditedText": "Can we agree that we will invite all parties on the following Wednesday—22 September—if that is acceptable to those who are negotiating?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 533.0,
      "ContributionID": 104687,
      "EditedText": "Let me assure you that I am as keen as everybody here that we make some progress on this. What I do not want to do is interfere in a haphazard way that could damage any negotiations that are going on. Do we agree on that?We have 10 minutes to discuss other items of business that the committee may wish to raise. At the conveners meeting yesterday, there was a clear feeling that we will have difficulty with our work programme if we do not set out some proposals to a timetable. When emergency items arise, committees will need to deal with them, but we are keen that we should set some kind of timetable in the first instance, to give the clerks and researchers some guidance. I will take people's comments on that, if I can get round the table in 10 minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 535.0,
      "ContributionID": 104688,
      "EditedText": "As I forewarned you twice today, I will come at this as a structural issue. School performance and teacher morale and performance are linked to the structure of schools. As I said, schools in my area—and Thurso and Wick high schools in particular—are in bad nick. Thurso High School is in a disgraceful condition, and that is affecting the delivery of the service to pupils. We are boxed in by section 94. Sam has rightly moved in a good direction with the comprehensive spending review, but we know that that is not enough. As a committee, we must look at how we address that issue, which applies to every one of us. It may be a matter of freeing up capital from current revenue or of using balances or other forms of finance. I entirely accept Sam's point about moving funds across boundaries. I was twisting his tail slightly, as I knew fine well what the answer would be. My former authority would go berserk if there was any suggestion of using section 94 to move funds to Aberdeenshire or Morayshire. This is desperately important to people out there. If we talk about improving our schools, they will say, \"What about the hole in Castletown Primary School?\" I know that I am getting a bit local here, but I hope that all members agree that the problem is bad."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 539.0,
      "ContributionID": 104690,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed on the four points that we will discuss further?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 104696,
      "EditedText": "My second point is the one that Nicola raised—the broader context of the bill. The bill talks about the structure of education, but it will operate in a wider context, particularly in relation to the sustainable education that Nicola alluded to. It is important that we have that on the agenda and talk about the overall philosophy of our approach to education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 569.0,
      "ContributionID": 104705,
      "EditedText": "When we discuss what the committee might consider, can we have on the agenda the notion of sub-committees investigating culture and sport separately?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 571.0,
      "ContributionID": 104706,
      "EditedText": "Yes. There is a paper on sub-committees and travel, but we do not have time to deal with that just now. I suggest that we put that on the agenda for Tuesday's meeting. I take it that the committee is in agreement that we should have a meeting next Tuesday, as we will need the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 580.0,
      "ContributionID": 104710,
      "EditedText": "Before we leave, I want us to decide, as a committee, whether we are inviting Hampden and all those associated with it to come to us by—I would suggest—28 September to give us a clear picture of what is going on. I would like to find out whether the committee wants to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 582.0,
      "ContributionID": 104711,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we write to the minister and ask questions along the lines of those that you have been putting, Fiona. We might get an answer before 28 September. If we do not get a suitable answer by that date, we can give a commitment to invite Hampden back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 586.0,
      "ContributionID": 104713,
      "EditedText": "Are we saying that we will decide whether this is a priority issue when we decide the rest of the agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 594.0,
      "ContributionID": 104717,
      "EditedText": "I am not asking the committee to clodhop. I am asking exactly what Ian has just asked. We must have the issues clarified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 600.0,
      "ContributionID": 104720,
      "EditedText": "We must conclude now. Thank you for your attendance, and thank you to those in the public gallery who have sat it out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 104602,
      "EditedText": "I wish to pick up on the matter of resources for the inspectorate. The inspectorate has given us an indication of the additional costs if the provision is enacted. They will have to be considered if the provision is enacted. If additional resources are given, it is entirely possible that the inspectorate will recruit people from other disciplines such as you described earlier—for example by secondment from other spheres of education. Such arrangements are increasingly common and are to be encouraged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C104603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 104603,
      "EditedText": "I have a couple of questions on pre-school education. I welcome the provision that would place a statutory duty on local authorities to provide pre-school education, but given the fact that money will not be ring-fenced, I am concerned about how we will ensure that any money that is allocated in the general education expenditure for pre-school education is used for that purpose. I welcome the Government's commitment to increasing pre-school education to three-year-olds and four-year-olds and the fact that that commitment will be matched with resources.I also wish to ask about the current guidance notes, as in a previous life I was involved with the inspection—or seeing the inspection—of pre-school provision. We hope that new guidance notes will be introduced, but how will they be developed? Will they be brought before this committee so that we can examine them? The guidance notes should address the link between pre-school and school and how it is facilitated. I do not think that they do at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 104606,
      "EditedText": "I wish to ask two questions—one that follows up Nicola's question on the inspection of local authorities, the other on school management. The SNP broadly welcomes the inspection of local authorities, but I was interested in the issue of special inspections and the proposal that there should be at least eight weeks' notice of the start of such an inspection. There seems to be some confusion between a special inspection and an incident that might trigger a special inspection. Let me give an example of flawed decision making. For once, Sam, this is not a criticism of your department. You—or your predecessor in the department—appeared to give Western Isles Council entirely good advice on the merger of Lewis Castle College and the Nicolson Institute. The local authority—for what, one must say, appear to be rather pigheaded reasons—chose to ignore that advice, got it completely wrong, was subject to legal challenge and has now had to overturn its decision. That strikes me as an example of a case in which there needs to be some way of saying to a local authority, \"Your decision-making process, and the way in which you have gone about this, is flawed.\" Eight weeks' notice of a special inspection will not do that. What is the relationship between an incident where a local authority simply gets things badly wrong according to the law—although your department's role is to ensure that that does not happen—and inspection?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 104607,
      "EditedText": "The plan is to have a rolling programme of inspections. I do not think that we are in any way barred from or unable to inspect immediately if there is a particular problem. Indeed, I think that that option is important. Under the Education (Scotland) Act 1980, ministers, should they be worried, have reserved powers to act on problems in local authorities. One way in which to consider the matter further before taking that action would be to send in HM inspectors to examine the problem, so I do not think that one option precludes the other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 104608,
      "EditedText": "I believe that, Sam, but I think that care is needed at the drafting stage so that it does not look as if local authorities can take comfort from a notice period of eight weeks before something is done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 104609,
      "EditedText": "I will certainly consider that, as we would not want that to be the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 104610,
      "EditedText": "My second question is on devolved school management, which is a system that many people consider can work. There was a commitment in the SNP's election manifesto—and a commitment from the Labour party in the partnership agreement—to consider the administrative burden on teachers. Somewhere between those two positions one has to make progress on the devolution of power, in terms of running a school, to the management team, as well as ensuring that yet another crushing administrative burden is not created. Ian's speech—it was not a question; it was a speech—was a very acute, and, from my own experience and from what my wife tells me, completely accurate view of the culture in the classroom and how teachers feel about these issues. Although it works, devolved school management will be an additional burden unless there is help with resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 104611,
      "EditedText": "That is always the dilemma. Certain administrative burdens go with responsibilities and you get lost in those burdens rather than your core functions. I appreciate that devolved school management will require resources so that there is no additional burden on the teacher. It is our intention to provide that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 104612,
      "EditedText": "This is not particularly contentious. When you talk about improving schools, Sam, the document mentions things that can be measured. First, not everything in education can be measured. Secondly, when we target and benchmark we need to be careful that everyone involved is confident that the data from which they work are valid. Some of the targets, although they have now been better negotiated, have before seemed to be plucked out of the air. Some of the benchmarks, such as exam results or five to 14 tests, do not always have the confidence of the people administering them. Some schools have no truants at all. Then there is the difficulty of how these things are measured to start with. Farmers tell me that some of their problems arise from the starting point—having been wrong in the first place five or six years ago. We must ensure that the benchmarks for improving schools are right. It will be difficult, for example, to compare highers results with higher still for some years to come. Jumping to conclusions and using league tables and things like that are problematic. I urge you to recognise that not everything that is good in schools can be measured."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 104614,
      "EditedText": "We have two minutes left, and four people wanting to speak. Please ask your questions very quickly and if we can we will pick them up. If not, I am sure that the minister can come back to us, perhaps with written answers if that is necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 104616,
      "EditedText": "We envisage local authorities' objectives for schools, and their duty to enhance and improve schools and determine and deal with underperformance, being agreed with the school. That is not a matter for us. It is for the local authority and the school to agree what they are going to look at and how the internal assessment will be evaluated. I hope that that will be the way forward. We are keen to have those issues owned by the school and by the local authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 104619,
      "EditedText": "There are also no placing requests for nursery schools. Why are we continuing that policy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 104621,
      "EditedText": "I have one question in four parts. Does the minister agree that we should not import the perceived political nature of the Office for Standards in Education into the Scottish inspection system? We do not want a tartan Ofsted; we want our own home-grown version. Does he agree that the inspection of education authorities could be problematic if the inspectorate does not understand the integrated way in which local authority finance operates? Does he accept that having a parent member as opposed to a lay member would enhance the review panel that he proposes for the inspection process? Why does the panel need the requisite member of the business community with an iffy background in quality assurance when we already have a wealth of talent in quality assurance in the Scottish education system?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 104623,
      "EditedText": "There is an important issue about local authority budgets being spread across the services. It is not that clear cut."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 104626,
      "EditedText": "Much of what we do does not require legislation; legislation gives us powers that we use to develop other areas. We do not want to build everything into legislation, or the system will become inflexible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 104630,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, I misunderstood your point. All those subjects will be built into the curriculum through enterprise links and other bodies. I could go into that at great length, but I do not have enough time. I agree with Nicola that those are important topics that we should take forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 104631,
      "EditedText": "That is an important question, Nicola, and I am sure that it is one that the committee will want to pursue. I am sorry Peter, I was going to allow you to comment on that, but we really do not have enough time. Brian has one quick question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 104634,
      "EditedText": "I apologise to everybody who still has questions—two hours was obviously not long enough—but Peter and Sam have to leave. I thank everybody who asked questions and thank Peter and Sam for attending. We might have to invite them back at some stage as there are a number of pressing issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 104642,
      "EditedText": "As has been pointed out, the Scottish Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff in School Education is tripartite. We could ask representatives from all three sides to come; we may want to talk about different things to each of them. We might ask the minister what he can do to bring the sides together and we could find out from the others what we can do to bring them closer together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 104643,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other views before I comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 104646,
      "EditedText": "Why do we need an immediate answer on Hampden? I missed that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 104647,
      "EditedText": "It was raised earlier in the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 104652,
      "EditedText": "No, it is not. We have just had a discussion with the minister, which dominated the whole meeting. There are many things which I would like us to move on to, within and outwith the bill. Although Hampden is important, it is not a priority for the committee, and it can be pursed through other avenues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 104653,
      "EditedText": "I have explored every other avenue that is open to me and have not got answers. It may not be a priority but it is an urgent issue. We need to know whether the bills for which McAlpine issued a writ against the National Stadium were paid last month."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 104659,
      "EditedText": "No, we will return to it. We have left Hampden on the table so that we can discuss it under the priorities that this committee will have for future meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 104669,
      "EditedText": "It is quite apparent to many of us, both in this committee and elsewhere in the Parliament, that this Parliament has a great job to do in winning back the confidence of the people. One of the committee's tasks—as well as bringing the Hampden issue to light and exploring what, if anything, has gone wrong—is to take up issues such as the teachers' pay dispute. We should not allow ourselves to be governed by the time scale of the parties involved; it is for us to take the issue by the scruff of the neck and find out information that might be helpful.There is nothing to fear from investigation. It is easy for journalists to reach the parties and the minister involved and to run stories in the papers, but we seem to be saying that we should hold back. The Scottish public would like to see politicians taking some action. Through this committee, we have the ability to bring people before us and ask them pertinent questions. Hopefully, that will help the process along. I suggest that we move on this as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 104670,
      "EditedText": "Whenever industrial discussions are in progress, it is not necessarily for politicians to get involved as immediately as Brian suggests. People do not want politicians to start playing party politics with an issue, as—unfortunately—sometimes happens.However, I am warming to the idea of inviting the minister and the other parties to a committee meeting. I would like the committee to suggest when that should happen, because I have some sympathy with the view that we should not issue invitations while the teaching unions are holding a ballot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 104674,
      "EditedText": "Is it possible to broker a compromise on this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 511.0,
      "ContributionID": 104676,
      "EditedText": "We got off to a very bad start with what happened first thing this morning—that is not a party political point—but let us see whether we can make better progress. There is sense in saying that the ballot is a process in which we should not interfere, but as soon as all the ballots are over we should endeavour to speak to the parties involved. Perhaps we should advise the minister that we will also need to speak to him if he is going to be one of the parties. Brian is absolutely right—we have to play a role in this process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 517.0,
      "ContributionID": 104679,
      "EditedText": "Can I suggest that that was what I said, although perhaps not as well as Michael Russell? I said that we should invite the parties to appear before us, but discuss the timetable for doing that. From the muttering around the table, it seems that people know when the ballot will be completed. Does the clerk have any information on that?I have been informed that it will be over by 15 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 541.0,
      "ContributionID": 104691,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 545.0,
      "ContributionID": 104693,
      "EditedText": "We will progress those points, and any others that anyone wants to add."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 104694,
      "EditedText": "East Renfrewshire is one of the authorities that have been inspected. I recommend that we learn from that inspection and invite the director of education here or go to East Renfrewshire."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 104697,
      "EditedText": "I have quite a list of points. I thought that we were listing points and then deciding on some priorities. We must not forget that we are a cultural committee, too, but on the education side I have raised the issue of rural schooling. We need to look closely at the criteria for closures, as well as finding a positive way of encouraging rural education, particularly rural primary education. We must get to grips with the fact that, although we want rural primary education to continue, there are lots of questions about how it is resourced.I referred to the Nicolson Institute and the Lewis Castle College, which raise a range of issues about how schools merge and how communities get involved in that. Many people regard this as an issue of maladministration in education, and the courts reviewed it as such. We should consider whether to examine it specifically, as it would open up the issue of how parents are consulted about the way in which education provision is made.The committee has a role in examining how the national cultural strategy is progressing. We have a commitment to invite Greg Dyke and Sir Robert Smith to meetings, which we have not yet honoured. There is the perennial question of the Scottish film industry—three different sets of studios, or possibly four, have been proposed— and there is the question of production in Scotland having reached something of a watershed. We should consider those issues as part of our culture remit. Finally, although Scottish publishing is a growth area, it presents a huge number of issues. An investigation into Scottish publishing might provide some very useful material for this committee and for the Scottish arts community in general."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 557.0,
      "ContributionID": 104699,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order. I move to extend the time for this committee. We are obviously up against it, and I do not think that we will be chucked out immediately if we want to continue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 559.0,
      "ContributionID": 104700,
      "EditedText": "I think that there is another meeting in this room, so I would be reluctant to extend our time, even though there are a number of issues that members want to raise. If members want to put on the agenda items that the committee can consider over the coming months rather than immediately, I shall ask Gillian, the committee clerk, to speak to them and write down the ideas that they want us to consider. Members can e-mail those ideas, if that is considered more suitable. We will try to put together a programme that will include everything. As Mike said, we still have the cultural strategy to examine. I am also more than aware that we have not yet had a briefing on sports issues, and I know that sportscotland is anxious to meet us. There may be items from that meeting that members will want to include as well. As we have had a briefing on arts issues, does the committee agree that I should arrange with sportscotland a suitable time for a briefing on sports? After that, we could consider what items the committee wants to include. Mike, you are shaking your head."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 565.0,
      "ContributionID": 104703,
      "EditedText": "So we are not reaching any decisions today; we are just throwing ideas into the melting pot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C104709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 577.0,
      "ContributionID": 104709,
      "EditedText": "I understand why you say that. I hope that the briefing from sportscotland is agreed and that we can go ahead and organise it without waiting until the next meeting. One thing that I would like us to do as a matter of urgency—this links in with travel—is to visit some community schools. If we do not do that, we are talking blind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 584.0,
      "ContributionID": 104712,
      "EditedText": "That process can be truncated. If we ask the minister Fiona's questions and there is no reply by next Tuesday, we should be in a position to say that we must treat the issue as a priority. That gives the minister a week's grace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 588.0,
      "ContributionID": 104714,
      "EditedText": "No, the proposal is that a letter is written on behalf of the committee asking these questions and, in the light of the answers—or lack of answers—we will decide what to do next Tuesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 596.0,
      "ContributionID": 104718,
      "EditedText": "We will write as a committee to the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2129,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 104430,
      "EditedText": "It would be better if I said good morning first. I welcome the minister, Sam Galbraith, and the junior minister, Peter Peacock, to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. I also welcome a member of the Scottish Parliament, Dr Sylvia Jackson, who is not a member of the committee. Now, the point of order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2129,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 104438,
      "EditedText": "If the committee wishes, I am more than happy to invite the minister back to discuss teachers' pay, but I will not raise that issue this morning, given that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2129,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 104440,
      "EditedText": "I am giving my opinion on the matter. I am chairing the meeting, and my opinion is that, if we wish the minister to answer questions, we will invite him back to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Children and Education (Peter Peacock): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 104444,
      "EditedText": "I echo what Sam said about the pleasure with which people are greeting us as we participate in meetings across Scotland. I have been to a couple of public meetings, I have met seven councils, the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland and a range of other bodies; generally, the provisions of the bill and the improvement framework that it sets out have been welcomed. Questions about the details have been raised, but comparatively few questions have arisen on the principles. The consultation process has had a good start, although it has a long way to run. Like Sam, I am happy to address any detailed points that you wish to raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 104445,
      "EditedText": "Sam knows that I have asked him questions in Parliament about the consultation in which he and Peter have taken part; I hope that in this setting he can give a more considered reply.When we discussed the original statement on the improvement in education bill in the chamber, I asked about consultation with young people. If young people are not involved in the improvement of their education, there is no foundation for any improvement at all. In the chamber, you assured me that you would consult with youth forums, pupil councils and so on. Today, you and Peter mentioned ministerial and public meetings and discussions with committees, with the Association of Directors of Education and with councils. Could you elaborate on what consultations you have had with young people? To date, all that I am aware of is the website that the Scottish Council for Educational Technology has put on the internet on behalf of the Scottish Executive. It has a lovely opening page, but all that the site contains is the text of the bill.To say that children as young as five will be able to read and comment on that is totally deficient. I have not had a chance to look at the website today but, as of last week, only 24 messages had been posted, the majority of which, I would say, came not from young children, but possibly from teachers. Six weeks of consultation are left. Can you assure me that the young people involved will be consulted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 104446,
      "EditedText": "I share your concern, Fiona. As you know, I have young kids myself, who have views on these matters. It is right that each and every kid should be involved. Senior pupils from St Roch's and Shawlands Academy were present at a consultation meeting I held in Glasgow this week. It was clear to me that that was a totally inappropriate forum for them, because the meeting was full of adults and the pupils were intimidated. The meeting was not intended to be specifically for the pupils, but I was pleased that they were there. As you know, Fiona, the consultation process is just starting. I have already arranged meetings with one or two councils and we will go out to meet other groups. I can absolutely assure you that, by the time the process is complete, I will have met numerous pupils and youth groups. We also plan to discuss the youth parliament. I hope that you will be reassured that, by the end of the process—at the end of October—the issues that you mentioned will have been taken on board. I have been to a lot of schools recently. I do not speak only to the teachers; I spend a lot of time speaking to the kids, not just about the bill, but about all aspects of their education. I am committed to that aspect of the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 104450,
      "EditedText": "Are there any further points on that issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 104452,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the committee's consultation process will be coloured by what you describe as an impasse. Everyone agrees with our agenda for improvement and we will deliver on it and on all the other parts of our agenda for schools. The process on the pay negotiations is continuing; it is not yet complete. There is a statutory basis for our being called in to arbitrate but it would be inappropriate for me to comment on the matter at this stage; in fact, it would be in breach of the statutory position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 104456,
      "EditedText": "I am a former teacher and I know that schools are about not just teachers, but parents, community groups and so on. Some authorities are better than others at ensuring the widest possible consultation. A letter encouraging a wide consultation would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 104462,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone have a question that is specifically on young people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 104468,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I would like to tie it up. The committee is concerned that the consultation should be as wide as possible. That idea came initially from the Government. In the draft bill, and in your statement, Mr Galbraith, you say that you will consult widely. In the chamber, you said that you would consult young people. I understand that. I also understand that you are making such statements to satisfy article 12 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, under which the child's opinions—which must be sought—must be given equal weight to all the others that are sought. I am concerned that, although we first discussed this in June, there does not yet seem to be any clear strategy, based on professional and research evidence, for consulting young people so that we can put the findings into the final process. Are you saying that, since June, the department has not set up a strategy for consulting young people and that we are hoping that we will get something meaningful out of going around and chatting to them over the next six weeks?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 104473,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 104476,
      "EditedText": "I am keen to move the discussion on. Do you want to comment on this specific issue, Ian?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 104484,
      "EditedText": "I have always said—you have heard me and it has been reported—that we are trying build an education system based on consensus and partnership. That is the only way forward. However, I remind everyone that consensus and partnership require all sides to participate.I am keen to make sure that we get things right—we must find the right model and not create a talking shop. When the proposals are ready, we will bring them to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 104488,
      "EditedText": "Parents, teachers, pupils, the Government, education authorities and communities are all involved in realising a child's potential, and external influences such as what goes on at school, at home, in the Government and in education authorities are also important. Nothing can be taken in isolation. We should all realise and value the fact that each of us has a contribution to make, instead of trying to oppose or to exclude others' contributions. We are trying to build the best possible partnership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 104490,
      "EditedText": "The best way to involve parents has been raised again and again in our consultation. For example, we have asked whether too much prominence has been given to the views of school boards and how other people's views can be heard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 104491,
      "EditedText": "For me, that is one of the most important points to come out of the consultation. It has arisen from consideration of the issue of school boards, which tends to cause debates about general parental involvement. The consultation has uncovered a school of thought that believes that too many of our efforts to involve parents have focused on the provision of school boards instead of, as Cathy has pointed out, breaking down barriers and providing time for parents and teachers to have a real dialogue about their children's learning needs. We also need to support parents' attempts to stimulate and to support their children. We are giving more thought to those questions in order to help with the process. We have to widen parents' involvement beyond the school board system, because although that system is important, other aspects are just as important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 104495,
      "EditedText": "Home-school links are an important new development and are supported by the excellence fund as part of the whole improvement agenda. Members know that a number of models are involved. The money is handed down through the excellence fund so that local authorities and schools can do their own thing, often involving and supporting parents, bringing them into schools and giving them information. It is important to maintain home-school links. As everyone agrees, the parent-home-school relationship is absolutely vital to the education system. That is one method that local authorities can use to gather parents' views during the consultation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 104497,
      "EditedText": "The change in the legislation was proposed as a result of consultation with parents. Many of them found the elections, particularly by-elections, intimidating, and they asked for that stipulation to be removed. We are responding to the wishes of parents.There is a wider agenda in question. It is clear from the consultation process that many people are asking whether the current form of school boards is the correct one. We are turning our minds to that. I am not yet in a position to say what changes we will propose as a result of the consultation. There is a feeling, however, among members of the public—I call it concern rather than unease—that we ought to rethink some of the roles and functions of school boards and the way in which they are organised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 104498,
      "EditedText": "A huge consultation about school boards was undertaken some 18 months or two years ago. I assume that the results of that consultation are being taken into consideration.A school board election in my local authority is due to take place in November. If I understand the bill correctly, if enough parents do not come forward to be elected at that time, there will be no provision to hold a by-election. We will end up with school boards being staffed entirely by co-opted members. Is that what would happen as a result of the new provision on by-elections if the full election failed to fill all the places?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 104501,
      "EditedText": "That is very important, and that is where the document falls down. A technicality that you have in here is sending out the wrong message. What we should be looking at, and what should be in the improvement in Scottish education bill, is a much more positive approach. How do we go out and get parents involved in school boards? I do not think that doing away with elections is the answer. That lies in whether we can make the elections real."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 104502,
      "EditedText": "We will look at the point that you raise. In the situation that you describe I do not think that there is an impediment to re-running an election. In the past, I have seen councillors who wanted school boards where there were not any encouraging their establishment outwith the normal sequence. The provision ought to be sufficiently flexible to allow that to happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 104507,
      "EditedText": "You will have heard me say that I value greatly the contribution of teachers. The vast majority of them do an outstanding job and are highly committed to their pupils' achieving their full potential. My job is to ensure that we have in place the mechanisms that allow teachers to deliver.We are fulfilling our side of the bargain. Education spending is up 8 per cent this year and it has been raised every year since 1997. We have put additional money into schools. We have made proposals for continuing professional development. We are putting a range of measures in place to deliver our side of the bargain. I want to work with teachers, with consensus and in partnership. Part of the package will be good, decent and rewarding pay and conditions that will help motivate and retain teachers, as well as recruit them. We are committed to that.A partnership requires two parties. The teaching profession, too, has to join that partnership; teachers cannot always stand on the sidelines and shout no. Every profession and job moves forward, changes its terms and conditions and works more efficiently and effectively. Every profession gets assessed and continues professional development; there is no reason why teachers should be excluded from that process. I have spent a lot of time driving forward our part of the agenda, and I hope that the teachers will do the same, Nicola."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 104511,
      "EditedText": "—at introducing red herrings to this issue. I outlined our position. There is no educational reason why a composite class should be different from any other class. Primary classes are all composite classes in which ages vary by up to a year. There is no great educational debate on that, although I realise that it is held up as a shibboleth.We are well on the way to delivering on our promise on class sizes and will have the size of every class from primaries 1 to 3 down to 30 or fewer.It is not compulsory that the sizes of composite classes be raised to 30, although it is now allowed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 104520,
      "EditedText": "I would now like to bring some other members in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C104521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 104521,
      "EditedText": "I want to extend the discussion about professional development. There is a section in the introduction about supporting teachers. I realise that, in terms of the approach to continuing professional development, a lot hinges on the consultation with the General Teaching Council, but there could be more emphasis on that area in the document. Is the reason for that the GTC review?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C104523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 104523,
      "EditedText": "I am sure Mr Galbraith is aware that there is a considerable amount of research that shows that although courses are very useful there is a great deal that can be done within the school to improve teaching and learning. Research shows the importance of giving teachers time to reflect on their practice. One of the reasons teachers give for not taking courses and reading journals is their work load. That issue has been of concern for some time. Will that be taken on board in the planned document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 104524,
      "EditedText": "I agree that there is a lot to be done in school. In-service training is also part of continuing professional development. I am a bit surprised that teachers rarely go and see what goes on in other schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 104531,
      "EditedText": "If you had listened, you would have heard him talk about the measures that have been put in place to underpin the teaching structure and to raise the professional status of teachers. This is not hollow rhetoric: we have talked about morale quite a lot when visiting schools and we have never left a school without being enormously impressed by the commitment of the teachers. Teachers all over Scotland go the extra mile on behalf of their pupils. However, we have also seen a range of impediments to improving their professionalism, which we are trying to remove. How can a teacher be made to get out of the classroom for the first time in a decade to go and see somebody else performing? How can best practice be shared using the national grid for learning? We want to cast the debate on education against a positive back-cloth because we are trying to change the tone of the debate and we want teachers to be more respected. We will play our part in doing that but, as Sam Galbraith said, we have to do it in partnership with the teachers. Teachers appear to be appreciative of the things that are being done to make those changes and to raise their professional status.One of the things that concerns me is how morale has changed over the past 18 or 20 years. We have to get to a position where there is much more regard for teachers. A genuine debate on change in education can be held if every new idea is not seen as a threat. We are trying to create a climate that will help that happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 104533,
      "EditedText": "We have come through a period in which teachers have felt beleaguered by an overload of initiatives. We are moving into a period where we hope there will be a period of relative stability. We are putting resources into supporting current structures. It would be impossible to turn around in two or three months the mood that has built up in the teaching profession during 20 years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 104535,
      "EditedText": "I will not comment on the teachers' pay negotiations as they are not a matter, directly, for Government. Also, it would be improper for me to do so because, as Mr Galbraith said earlier, there is a role for ministers to arbitrate in the dispute. However, my impression is that it is not a question of resources; other questions are much more of an impediment. We need to ensure flexibility in the profession to increase the financial and professional rewards for teachers. We are working to raise the professional status of teachers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 104538,
      "EditedText": "I spoke in the chamber, in June I think, about the mood music not being right in education. I have been impressed by the wishes of Mr Peacock and Mr Galbraith to speak a good game about the teachers. I am sure that they will come away impressed from the visits to schools they have said they will make. I hope that they will move from that to say that we must listen to teachers, who have impressed us so much, when they express real professional concerns—not selfish ones—about their conditions, pay, status and ability to do their job. I think that \"Improving our Schools\" is an excellent document, but a deal of additional bureaucracy is inherent in it. It carries statements about trying to reduce bureaucracy. We need to be careful. One thing that we can do for teachers is try to cut out unnecessary bureaucracy. If teachers can see movement in that direction, that would help them feel better about things. I promise members that teachers are not inflexible, but when their professional concerns appear to be overridden by what is said—in spite of the good things that are being said—there is a danger that our efforts will be spoiled. We must listen. I hope that a period of stability can be established in which the genuine professional concerns about conditions and so on can be addressed at leisure. That involves talking to the real people, so that settlements or proposals that do not mean anything for them, but demand that they make up their minds, do not arrive on their doorsteps."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 104539,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for those comments, Ian. I am glad that you noticed the mood music, to use your phrase. Changes in that regard have been made consciously—and very easily, because we believe in it. My beliefs, views and feelings about, on and towards teachers have been much reinforced by school visits. I repeat what I said at the start: the vast majority of teachers do an outstanding job and are utterly committed to realising the potential of their individual pupils, and, on behalf of the Government, I thank them all for that. My job as Minister for Children and Education is to try to put in place the mechanisms—not impediments—to help teachers do their job. Those mechanisms allow them to carry on with their professional development. We have started to put them in place. Education expenditure increased by 8 per cent this year. It has increased every year since Labour came into government in 1997. It is important to note that we have made progress on classroom assistants, teachers and the new excellence fund. I would like to offer some reassurance about the call for stability. It is my view also that education needs a period of stability, in which everything can settle down, but it is important that that should not mean stagnation. When there is stability, we must be prepared for movements and changes. All organisations roll forward, and education will have to do the same. I hope that we can look forward to stability as we work with teachers, and that we can change not just the mechanism, but the position from which we adopt education policy, so that when proposals or ideas are advanced, they are not seen as threats or something to say no to. Genuine ideas suggested by people who are genuinely concerned with moving us forward are for discussion. We can all make a contribution—without always feeling obliged to give 20 reasons why they cannot be implemented—and suggest ways in which they might be implemented a bit better or what might help to implement them. I hope that the debate will involve consensus rather than be along partisan lines, when people try to score points, twisting or misconstruing other people's words, or other silly things like that. There are ways in which we can take the debate forward genuinely. We should remember that kids—children—should be the focus of the debate. The debate is about them. I believe that teachers also want the debate to be about children, so we should take the debate forward on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 104540,
      "EditedText": "There are two issues that I wish to raise: composite classes and continuing professional development, which I will turn to first.We want continuing professional development, as every professional does. I am in a profession where people want that—Sam was previously in such a profession, although medicine is self-governing rather than being driven by outside bodies. Teachers should be given respect so that they can drive their own continuing professional development; they do not need someone behind them with a whip. Teachers are professionals, and every time that they walk into a classroom and talk to a new pupil they are involved in continuing professional development. How can we have continuing professional development when there is no time for it or when the new contract refers to adding an extra 50 hours of social inclusion work to a teacher's current work load? I ask Sam to give me a specific response to that question.Peter mentioned the national grid for learning, for which there is a strategy to get teachers' information technology skills up to date. The Executive has put resources into that strategy—teachers are given the necessary time and class cover for when they are away on IT training. Are they being offered the same resources for their general continuing professional development? Will they have time within their working week—without the extra 50 hours—and will there be class cover for when they are away undertaking continuing professional development? Those are vital issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 104545,
      "EditedText": "There is a real danger in your argument, Fiona. The public will assume that every composite class will grow to 30 and that 100,000 pupils in Scotland will be disadvantaged because they are in composite classes. A huge number of children will always be in composite classes because they attend schools where the numbers mean that there cannot be anything other. The educational outcomes are not significantly different in small rural schools, which may have pupils across a seven-year age range, let alone a one or two-year range. Some would argue that the outcomes are significantly better. It would be a mistake to undermine people's confidence in the ability to teach in composite classes, because for many Scots there will be no alternative.It would also be a mistake to pretend that 100,000 pupils will suddenly move from a class with seven pupils in it to one with 30. Physically, that just will not happen. Most of the kids in rural areas will remain in exactly the same situation. Of the 100,000 pupils that you mention, although I am not entirely clear about that figure, a significant number will always be taught in classes of less than the current maximum of 24. Please do not encourage an argument to take hold in Scotland that composite classes disadvantage your kid's education. They do not. Do not pretend either that people will automatically move from classes of less than 24 to a maximum of 30. That is not the case. Also, I understand that the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities is committed to phasing out composite classes where the physical circumstances of the school permit that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 104560,
      "EditedText": "That makes an assumption that we are happy with those kinds of settings. Making integration part of the process is a big issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 104565,
      "EditedText": "I take it from that that parents could seek compensation through the courts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 104567,
      "EditedText": "On the same page, in a paragraph relating to local authorities, it states:\"At present local authorities are under a duty to secure ‘for their area adequate and efficient provision of school education'\".It goes on to say:\"Neither adequate nor efficient is defined\".The following paragraph states:\"The duty will certainly encompass levels of attainment\".You are trying to establish definitions. Am I right in thinking that, given what you said in your first answer, parents could seek legal redress if, according to those criteria, standards either were not met or fell?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 104570,
      "EditedText": "I can only reiterate what I said at the start. It is open to any parent to take any authority to court if they feel that it is not fulfilling its statutory duties. Whether they wish to do so may depend on the legal advice that they receive. I cannot offer them any more advice. I am not clear what the position is of local authorities, and what reserve and contingency funds they have for actions raised in court."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 104571,
      "EditedText": "As a direct consequence of these proposals becoming law, then, not only would you more clearly be defining the educational standards that local authorities are meant to provide, but you would be taking upon yourself a duty, and you would be allowing parents at St Mary's to sue the Scottish Executive if there were a fall in standards as a result of your actions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 104573,
      "EditedText": "With regard to self-governing schools, paragraph 3 on page 45 states:\"There are currently only two self-governing schools in Scotland, Dornoch Academy in Highland and St Mary's Episcopal Primary School in Dunblane.\"What do the ministers consider to be the status of Jordanhill, given that it is not a local authority school?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 104575,
      "EditedText": "On the way to answering the question, I want to pick up a couple of points about St Mary's. It would be better to offer the children of St Mary's an excellent education, rather than compensation after the event. That is what we are trying to achieve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 104580,
      "EditedText": "I repeat that the document says that\"schools must operate in the framework of challenge and support provided by the local authority\".Are you telling me that there are no plans to place Jordanhill under local authority control, which it never was previously? Are you quite content to leave that as an anomaly and deal with the other school separately?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 104582,
      "EditedText": "So you do not consider Jordanhill a self-governing school?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 104585,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. When I visit schools I see that some are in a bad state of repair. While the quality of education depends on the quality of teachers, the state of the buildings is also important. The statute gives powers to deliver in many areas. The improvements are about relationships with parents, achievement, attainment, safety and professional development. They are also about the school environment, which is why we have allocated additional resources to the capital sum: £115.7 million over five years was announced in 1997, on top of a baseline of about £120 million each year, and an additional £185 million during the period of the comprehensive spending review. We are also examining the innovative public-private partnerships that can be utilised to the value of about £400 million. We attach great significance to the fabric of our schools. Yesterday, I was at a school in the Gyle that is getting a splendid new extension and I visited a school in my constituency that has had its windows fixed and its roof repaired."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 104588,
      "EditedText": "I will pursue the matter with considerable vigour now that the minister has given me the green light."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 104591,
      "EditedText": "I think that you have slightly misunderstood, Nicola. Page 16 says that the nature of the inspection will not be imposed because, as you know, the type of inspection is being discussed with local authorities so that there is agreement about what will happen during the inspection. A code of practice has also been established. The situation has been discussed fully and that is what the words try to capture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 104596,
      "EditedText": "I will deal with the issue of HMI inspecting its own policies, which, I agree, has been raised on a number of occasions and is causing some concern in some areas. I make it clear to the committee that although we take advice from inspectors—they have a wealth of knowledge and a very useful contribution to make to the debate and much advice to give—it is ministers, not HMI, who make policy. That is an important distinction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 104600,
      "EditedText": "It does not strike me that that statement goes to the heart of the argument about the roles of inspectors. The distinction is obvious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 104483,
      "EditedText": "Make the most of it, Sam."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4426355+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 104485,
      "EditedText": "Is that likely to happen before the end of the consultation period for this bill or will it be separate from that? I have raised the matter with you before, but I am simply trying to get an idea of the time scale and whether the committee will be able to consider the proposals at the same time as the rest of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4426355+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 104512,
      "EditedText": "You and I both know, Sam, that if the limit is raised, the chances are that class sizes will be raised as well. I have never got the impression from statements by you or your colleagues that the pledge to lower class sizes in primaries 1 to 3 to 30 was the end of the road; I understood that that reduction was part of a process of bringing down class sizes. Education research suggests that class sizes would have to be reduced much further to make a significant impact on the educational experience of children. In light of the trend that has been set by the Government, are you happy to tell parents—this deeply concerns the parents of the 100,000 kids in composite classes, whose only crumb of comfort was the size limit of composite classes—that the upper limit will be raised to 30? Instead of saying, as you have done in numerous press statements, that lower class sizes will be guaranteed for everybody entering primary school, you are telling an awful lot of parents that their children will go into classes with higher class sizes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 104514,
      "EditedText": "Parents disagree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 104516,
      "EditedText": "Composite class sizes—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 104595,
      "EditedText": "I am keen to hear your views on what expansion of HMI will be necessary to enable it to carry out those additional functions. I have a final point about HMI, from a wider perspective. You will agree that there is concern in the education profession that there is scope for conflict between the inspectorate's role as a policy maker and adviser in education, and its role as inspectors of standards in schools. The consultation document \"Regulation of Early Education and Childcare\" states:\"The government believes that it is right to separate registration and inspection of childcare from development work.\"I am confused about why you think it is right in child care, but not right in school education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 104597,
      "EditedText": "You have not answered my question about why it is right to separate functions in childcare, but not in school education. Could you explain that distinction?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 104599,
      "EditedText": "I understand that, but you make a fairly blunt statement in that consultation paper about separating the registration and inspection of childcare from development work. It strikes me that that goes to the heart of the argument about the roles of the inspectorate in school education. I do not understand the distinction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 104625,
      "EditedText": "We all agree that raising standards in numeracy, literacy and exam passes is extremely important, but we must also consider education in the wider context. We have a duty to educate responsible and active citizens who can take informed decisions about the world in which they live. My concern is that the bill misses the opportunity to put education in that wider context.Will the minister outline some specific proposals to deliver on the commitment in the partnership agreement to encourage civic, environmental and business education in schools?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 104627,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but what are you doing to fulfil the pledge?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 104639,
      "EditedText": "Mr Galbraith holds the purse strings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 104613,
      "EditedText": "I agree with your last statement. You will have seen the document \"How good is your school?\", which makes that very point. It looks at what can be measured and at the whole spectrum of what goes on in a school—and at its value and ethos. Those are important things for a school. You have been a teacher, Ian, and you know that you can go into a school and see great things; the feeling, the ethos and the atmosphere are right. There is much that cannot be measured, and that is what \"How good is your school?\" is about. It is also about how to self-assess a school. We are keen to ensure that these initiatives are owned by schools. Once that happens, the school is committed to them. Targets were not plucked out of the air. Considerable effort and research went into them. You will appreciate that they are the start, which has to be somewhere. Of course there are problems. Nothing is ever perfect, nor would you expect it to be. What we do have is a commitment to refine and develop and take matters forward. It is important to know what you are doing and to be able to measure it. The benchmarks and targets are not for creating tables or for scolding or blaming; they are the tools that help schools and teachers find out where the problems are so that they can be addressed by the Government and education authorities. The teacher will have helped to deliver a better service. As long as that remains the philosophy behind the targets, we can agree and make progress. It is our intention to enhance, refine and develop for the benefit of those involved and for the future. It is our intention not to blame or shame, but to have an external marker against which people can judge themselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 104617,
      "EditedText": "In the section on pre-school education, the report seems to suggest that private schools that receive no funding from Government agencies can still administer corporal punishment to children under the age of five. I think that that needs to be examined more carefully."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 104618,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we will take that on board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 104620,
      "EditedText": "Because we have a mixed economy in nursery schools and parents are free to exercise their placing requests. That is what we encourage. We explain to all local authorities that which nursery a child attends should be in the interests of the parents and the child. In effect, placing requests already operate, although without legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 104622,
      "EditedText": "The answer to the first question is yes. The answer to the second question is no, because they are inspecting the educational function. I will think about the last point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 104628,
      "EditedText": "That is not something that needs to be handled with legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 104632,
      "EditedText": "Page 10 of \"Improving our Schools\" says:\"Schools are not in competition, one with another.\"That seems to deny the experience of people who teach in schools or manage them. Parents who make placing requests seem to regard schools as being in competition, particularly given the fact that if a school roll falls below a certain level it begins to lose budget, which affects the number of teachers it can provide. Is it not the case that schools are in competition with one another, even if that is not the intention?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 104636,
      "EditedText": "A number of issues have been raised this morning that we might want to pursue. I am open to members' guidance as to how we continue but I suggest that we pursue a few points in particular. The first relates to discussion and consultation with young people, which we should deal with soon. Fiona had some suggestions on how we could improve the methodology on that. The second issue relates to elections to and membership of school boards. The third issue is teacher development and professionalism. The fourth is how the inspectorate should be resourced and developed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 104648,
      "EditedText": "Why is an immediate answer needed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 104649,
      "EditedText": "Fiona, why do you think that we need an immediate answer on Hampden?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 104657,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we leave the question of Hampden until the committee considers its priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 104660,
      "EditedText": "I think that we need the minister here next week to give an answer. I have gone down every possible route and have not got an answer. This committee has the power to ask not just the minister but the board members to explain what is going on. If that is the only way in which to get an answer on £40 million of public funding, we have to do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 104661,
      "EditedText": "I understand your concern that you have not had an answer to the questions that you have rightly been putting, but I wonder whether that is for the committee to pursue, or whether you should pursue it as a member of this Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 104664,
      "EditedText": "I do not know when the result of the ballot will be known, but the involvement of this committee will serve no purpose until then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 104666,
      "EditedText": "The ballot might break the deadlock."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 104668,
      "EditedText": "Brian has been trying to get in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 513.0,
      "ContributionID": 104677,
      "EditedText": "Does Michael Russell agree with me then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 527.0,
      "ContributionID": 104684,
      "EditedText": "I will not be here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
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      "ID": 1837,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 529.0,
      "ContributionID": 104685,
      "EditedText": "That is the next Wednesday meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 531.0,
      "ContributionID": 104686,
      "EditedText": "If it cannot be 22 September, in view of the fact that we need to get everybody's diaries together, we should find the nearest date thereafter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 537.0,
      "ContributionID": 104689,
      "EditedText": "My first point—about the inspectorate—relates to the four points that you raised, convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 543.0,
      "ContributionID": 104692,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that those four points will be on the agenda next time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104695",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 104695,
      "EditedText": "We will come to that if we have time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 555.0,
      "ContributionID": 104698,
      "EditedText": "We should invite representatives from St Mary's Episcopal Primary School to give evidence on the education bill. Its publication is a significant event for that school, whose views it would be important to hear. On the national cultural strategy, I raised in the chamber the issue of the national theatre for Scotland. There are a number of players whom we could ask about that. I shall return to the development at Hampden later, as I have already given notice that I was concerned about it. I should also mention—I bring this up under any other business—that there should be separate sub-committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104701",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 561.0,
      "ContributionID": 104701,
      "EditedText": "I would like some clarification of the process. All the issues that we have raised and more—if we e-mail you others—will go into a paper that the committee will confirm as its work programme for this session. Is that what will happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 563.0,
      "ContributionID": 104702,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 567.0,
      "ContributionID": 104704,
      "EditedText": "I hope to leave it as open as possible, so that committee members can include as many items as they are interested in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C104707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 573.0,
      "ContributionID": 104707,
      "EditedText": "If we are to have a sports presentation, could we try to have it when no other committees are meeting? I know that that might be difficult but I, for one, would like to attend that debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 575.0,
      "ContributionID": 104708,
      "EditedText": "That is extremely difficult. We are having problems with members' availability, because most of them are on more than one committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 590.0,
      "ContributionID": 104715,
      "EditedText": "That sounds fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 592.0,
      "ContributionID": 104716,
      "EditedText": "I am at one with Fiona on the need for us to understand what is going on. I am sure, however, that it will be a question of resolving the funding issues—whatever they might be—and that the partners will be trying to do that. I am no more party to this than anyone else here, although I have some information from the Scottish Football Association side which I will not throw into the pot here. In principle, the scenario is no different from the balloting issue. The partners must resolve things and I do not want us to go clodhopping in and disturb that. On the other hand, it would be helpful to have, at least, a holding position to clarify the issues. I am saying that, but it would be nice if the funding partners said it, too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2131,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 598.0,
      "ContributionID": 104719,
      "EditedText": "And in the light of the response we will consider our next move. We want a response by next Tuesday. I am sure that the minister can provide that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 602.0,
      "ContributionID": 104721,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:33."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:26.2464894+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 104427,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:00"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2129,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 104432,
      "EditedText": "That is not the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 104436,
      "EditedText": "We are here to meet the minister to discuss the draft legislation outlined in \"Improving our Schools\". We will have to try to deal with questions that impinge upon the teachers' pay negotiations as and when they arise. However, I am not in a position to say that committee members may ask the minister specific questions on the teachers' pay negotiations, because this is not the most appropriate setting for such questions.It is unfortunate that Nicola has raised this as a party political matter. Her statement that the discussion was party political even in the pre-meeting was inaccurate. However, I will try to be accommodating where the matter impinges on the draft legislation that we are here to discuss. I will rule out of order any questions that relate specifically to the question of the on-going teachers' pay negotiations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2129,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 104437,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order, convener. During our discussion, I appreciated your concern that the minister had been briefed on what to expect at this meeting, but a number of us feel that the situation with the negotiations is important. Would it be in order to ask the minister to spare us five minutes on the subject, as a matter of courtesy, so that we can ask one or two questions to keep us up to date?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 104441,
      "EditedText": "We will now move on to discuss the matter in front of us, which we all feel is important. Minister, I will give you some time to introduce the paper and to bring us up to date on the situation. I will then open the discussion to enable committee members to ask questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Children and Education (Mr Sam Galbraith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 104442,
      "EditedText": "I shall not take up much of your time, because I am here so that we can have a discussion and I can answer questions.May I say how pleased I am to be here? This is a useful system. My ministers and I want to be as helpful and co-operative as possible. I hope that the committee will help us as we make progress, and that we can help the committee by giving an insight into what is happening. I view this meeting as part of the making-it-work-together, co-operative, consensual partnership that will enable us to make progress and I am willing to deal with any issues that arise.Members will know that the bill is about improving education. You have seen the details of the bill, and I will not go over them. We are involved in consultations, so I do not want to make too many definitive statements; as the consultative steering group pointed out, we must have outside consultation before we finalise the definitive parts of the bill. Pete and I are meeting groups formally and informally and we have more meetings planned.From the meetings that we have had, I sense widespread enthusiasm for the bill. People want a number of issues to be addressed, and perhaps we can raise them here, but generally there is widespread enthusiasm. We will continue to make progress. Following several more private and public meetings and our discussions here, we will be ready to present the final bill to the committee and to Parliament. The final bill is likely to be different, although we will not know what the differences will be until the consultation has been completed.May Peter say a few words before we discuss matters with the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 104447,
      "EditedText": "It is wonderful to go out and speak to young people, but have you or your department taken into account any of the research on speaking to young people? No matter how friendly you want to be, Sam, you are the Minister for Children and Education and they are young children and pupils. It is not always simple when speaking to young folk really to understand what they want, but there is a mass of research on how we should speak to them. Neal Hazel at the University of Stirling is doing wonderful work on how we should talk to young people—using lots of different techniques, including play and pictures—to get their opinions. It does not sound to me as though that will be achieved in the next six weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 104448,
      "EditedText": "I cannot guarantee that I will use all the techniques that you mentioned, some of which—you are correct—I am not aware of. However, I am aware of the difficulties in speaking to youngsters, having children of my own. I can assure you that we will go out and examine the views of young people. I like to think that I have a fairly good record in my ministerial career of talking to young folk, for example during the consultation on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. For that report, I spent a lot of time organising meetings and speaking to young folk. Money was also available to allow others to do the same on the department's behalf. I intend to continue that record in the education department. If there are any methods that you would like us to consider, Fiona, please drop me a line about them and I will certainly pursue those that I can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 104449,
      "EditedText": "Like Sam Galbraith, I have tried, when I have gone to meetings, to take some time afterwards to speak to the young people who are there. What is interesting is that, on some subjects, their views, which they often do not express at the meetings, are diametrically opposed to those of the adults. It is important to draw attention to that fact. Every pupil council and pupil forum has been sent a copy of the consultation document, to which they are free to respond. On Friday, I had a meeting with the director of Young Scot, which is holding a series of focus groups—members may not like to use that term. There is a possibility—I would not put it any more strongly than that—of consultation being fed through those groups. The organisation is highly skilled in the techniques of consulting young people, as that is its principal activity. Meetings will also be held with pupil forums, at which the pupils will be in control of the debate—we can learn from that. This is not only a question of dialogue between adults and young people; it is about young people being allowed to explore the issues and being helped to communicate their views. We will, I hope, get a wide tapestry of views from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 104455,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to write to the leader of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities education committee to ask him to make sure that your point is addressed. Bear in mind, though, that every school has been sent a copy of the consultation document with an invitation to comment. I hope that, through school boards, parent-teacher associations and school councils, that dialogue will take place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 104457,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to deal with consultation with young people. Nicola, Fiona and Cathy want to speak on that subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 104458,
      "EditedText": "I think that this is a good document. I was pleased to read—and I am moving slightly away from the subject of young people—that it dealt with enabling local communities and parents to become involved in schools. My experience of working with parents and pupils in preparation for community schools has shown me that they have high expectations of how things should work. When young people are asked what they think would make school better, the responses that they give when they are on their own are quite different from the ones that they give when parents or teachers are present. It is important that time should be created for folk from the voluntary or other sectors to spend with kids. Kids are fairly radical in their views on what their education should be, how good their school should be and how to deal with problems that adults feel to be insoluble. Kids should have an opportunity to spend time—without teachers—thinking about what could be done in their schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C104463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 104463,
      "EditedText": "The papers that we received for this meeting mention consultation with young people who are being looked after and young people who are excluded. I would like to know more about how that consultation will take place, and how consultation with young people from socially excluded communities can take place through community education or by using youth-work resources outside schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 104465,
      "EditedText": "I take the point that Karen Gillon makes about those who are on the fringes of the system, if I can put it that way. Their views on how the school system has or has not served them are particularly important. That is an area that we have been talking about in the office. Much more systematic research is needed to provide evidence of how young people have been excluded from the system for a variety of reasons. We need to know how the situation has come about, what their experience was and how we can combat the problem. A huge amount of challenging and innovative work is being undertaken in schools throughout the country to ensure that people are not excluded from the system. We must learn from those who are in that system about the precise circumstances that led to the difficulties. I shall pursue that point after today's meeting, and I shall check what we are doing about it, because Karen's point is extremely important. We must understand better how the consumers of the service have found difficulties with it. There are issues regarding certain categories of looked-after children and others who, for a variety of other reasons, have encountered difficulties with the present system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 104466,
      "EditedText": "That is an area in which I am particularly interested. Committee members will remember some of the recommendations of the Kent report. We consulted the looked-after children and the organisations, and we significantly altered our response as a result of the strong views that were expressed. I intend to utilise those methods again to try to deal with such issues. I spent a lot of time on that, in my position in the previous Administration, and I shall continue to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 104469,
      "EditedText": "I accept your concerns, Fiona. We will look into that suggestion, as I want consultation to be as full as possible. I ask you to judge us at the end of the period, as we are really just at the start of our main consultation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 104471,
      "EditedText": "It is in the remit of the committee to take this matter further, if we so decide. Following the minister's visit this morning, we might want to discuss at the end of the meeting what further steps we would like to be taken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 104472,
      "EditedText": "Can that be put formally on the agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 104478,
      "EditedText": "That is a matter that the committee could discuss later. We need to decide whether we want further consultation and, if so, how we want it to be carried out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 104480,
      "EditedText": "Let us widen the discussion to allow members to say something about consultation in general."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 104482,
      "EditedText": "I am delighted to see that you are so on board with the Government's agenda in relation to the commitment to partnership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 104493,
      "EditedText": "This is an interesting area that we have to explore. Another issue that has arisen from the consultation and from the community schools initiative concerns the way in which current arrangements for school boards reflect the wider interest that is also part of the school's activity. I will need to give more thought to that issue. Schools are increasingly perceived to provide wider resources in a community and many services are attached to them. However, a school's central purpose is the educational attainment of any particular pupil group at any given time. We have to find a balance with existing school board mechanisms that involves parents much more in their children's learning and that reflects the wider canvas in which, as Mr Stone has suggested, schools are crucially involved. As the consultation progresses, we will be interested to hear more views about those issues in order to develop policy in that very important area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 104499,
      "EditedText": "The provision has been included as a response to the consultation process. That was the area that people wanted to be cleared up. It is correct to point out that there is much debate and discussion about issues affecting school boards, and we all want to contribute to that debate. We must give further consideration to other things that people may want to include in the bill. School boards will feature prominently at future meetings of this committee and elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 104500,
      "EditedText": "The system of school boards is a useful vehicle for parents who want to get involved and it would be wrong to send out signals that suggest that it is fatally flawed or is under threat. The wider question is about how we can facilitate real parental involvement and remove barriers to involvement. We all know that most school board elections are not competitive. People are encouraged to stand for the number of places available and then, technically, they are elected. That is somewhat different from real competition for places and from people clamouring to be on school boards. We must ask ourselves how we open up the process, and how we make it easier. Equally, we must address the kinds of questions that Jamie Stone and Cathy Peattie raised about how we find better mechanisms for involving parents. We must be careful that we do not, through our proper discussion of the role of school boards and their procedures, give a message that they are not important for the future. They will remain important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 104503,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 104513,
      "EditedText": "We are saying no such thing.I repeat that there is no educational argument for any difference in size between composite classes and non-composite classes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 104515,
      "EditedText": "Just a minute, Nicola. We are acting on the basis that there is no educational justification for any difference.We are committed as a first step in reducing class sizes to lowering class sizes in primaries 1 to 3. We are well on the way to delivering on that promise. I hope that you will recognise that that will be a significant step forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 104517,
      "EditedText": "Very quickly, as there is a list of people who want to speak on this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 104522,
      "EditedText": "The reason is that within weeks we will produce a document on continuing professional development for teachers. One of my aims is to enhance the professional status of teachers to where it used to be. That will require teachers to adopt the responsibilities of professionals in how they behave and what they do. Teachers are professionals and I want to enhance that quality. One of the things that distinguishes a professional is continuing professional development, some of which is their own responsibility and something they should take on for themselves, some of which should be assisted by courses that are made available. We have made a start with the probationary period and the head teachers' qualification. I foresee teachers going through a rolling system of professional development, enhancing both teaching methods and their knowledge of their subject area. When I ask teachers when they last went to an update course, I find it surprising that the general answer is that they have not been. It would be surprising if a professional physicist or geographer, for example, did not keep up to date with their subject. I ask how many read scientific or research journals or, for example, how many French teachers read Paris Match or a French newspaper regularly. I do not find much evidence of that happening. Skills updating needs to be considered and the consultation document on continuing professional development will enable that to happen. I intend to enhance the role of the GTC in relation to the profession and to give it a key role in continuing professional development. When courses are introduced, they must be validated and properly accredited. It is a waste of everybody's time if a teacher goes on a course that they get nothing out of. Continuing professional development is one of the most important ways forward and something that I know teachers will welcome. That ought to go a significant way to enhance morale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 104528,
      "EditedText": "Peter, I read in The Times Educational Supplement this week that you had been in Shetland and had experienced traditional Shetland hospitality. I assume that the people were so welcoming because you did not denigrate the professionalism of teachers, as Sam has done. A question about morale was asked. According to the article—the journal is reliable and I am sure that Sam reads it along with his five or six others—you said that the problem of low morale was passing away and that there was a bright future. A variety of people to whom I have spoken do not agree. I know that we are forbidden to refer to certain circumstances, but what evidence do you have that the problem of low morale is passing away?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 104536,
      "EditedText": "It is not working, though, is it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 104537,
      "EditedText": "I have indications from many members in the committee and am trying to give people an opportunity to ask supplementaries—I think that that is only fair. I ask members to try to refrain from jumping in. Everybody is waiting to speak. We will come back to you, Mike, if you still have further supplementary questions, after we have been round the table."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 104541,
      "EditedText": "I will deal with the question on continuing professional development first. Of course continuing professional development has resource implications. We understand and will give consideration to that. However, the individual also has a responsibility for continuing professional development, and I would like to see teachers accept that. I am clear that continuing professional development has resource implications, and that is part of the debate about teachers' conditions. It is about freeing up time, about utilising time differently, about getting cover, about developing and about being flexible. That is why the discussions about the package and about teachers' terms and conditions are so important. If we are to implement all these proposals, we need more flexibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 104544,
      "EditedText": "We are not proposing any increase in composite class sizes. That is part of the negotiation of the teachers' package. It is important to get that clear first. Second, there is no educational reason why composite class sizes should be any different from non-composite class sizes. Any primary class is a composite one in which a good teacher will teach a range of abilities. A properly constituted composite class will probably have less of that range of abilities within it, with the pupils at different ends getting help. Those are the educational arguments and that is the fact of the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 104547,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that you reinforce that, because that is not the view of your party."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 104549,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid that you are not right about that. What  Aberdeenshire Council was questioning, as I understand it, was the mistaken belief that composite classes would not be allowed in a rural setting. That is simply not the case. There is no alternative for a vast number of kids. That was a misunderstanding, and the council was seeking a guarantee that those classes would be able to continue, not that they would be abolished."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 104550,
      "EditedText": "I have just one or two observations, and a question. I would like to re-emphasise my credentials in this area. I worked in education for 20 years, for much of that time in a deprived area in Auchinleck in Ayrshire. Ian, too, was a teacher until very recently. We have talked here about the structures of education, but to know what it takes to be a successful teacher one needs to have been in the classroom and to understand its culture. Teachers have to be a cross between Mother Teresa and the Terminator to succeed. They have to cover the whole range.Even those of us who are parents and understand the difficulties of raising one or two children substantially underestimate the impact of the culture of the classroom. That must be taken alongside the pathology of the process of permanent change in education. I am sorry, but Brian will have to bear the brunt of my criticism of the legacy of the past 20 years of Conservative misrule.Sam talked about professional development. The truth is, for the past 20 years teachers have been professionally developing themselves on their feet, as change after change has impacted on them. Throughout the 1980s and early 1990s, much of that change was unaccompanied by resources, apart from the intellectual resources that the teachers brought to it. That has to be said. We need to be aware of that to understand where we are now regarding what Mike Russell would call the forbidden area. That is part of the pathology of this issue.I have no doubt that there will be a resolution of the teachers' dispute. I hope that it is resolved in such a way that teachers are comfortable with the structures in which they have to work. I say that as a former council leader as well as a teacher. That will be the platform for success with this document, and should serve as a pointer to the negotiators. I offer myself as a go-between, if necessary.Neither should the minister underestimate the problem of teachers' workload. My wife is a lawyer and has to undergo 30 to 50 hours of professional development a year to satisfy the Law Society of Scotland. Very often teachers are in no fit state to take on their set hours of professional development—because they are knackered, because they are under stress, because they have 300 jotters to mark, because they are preparing exam papers. We have to understand that before we can reach the great new dawn into which, I hope, Sam is taking us.The minister made one or two points about best practice. I hope that the communications revolution that Peter is offering us will assist the dissemination of best practice. However, best practice has been whirling about in schools for decades, and I must tell the committee that it normally goes into the rubbish bin whenever Douglas Osler appears with his inspectors, although that is another issue. The organisational constraints of the school day make regular visits to neighbouring schools extremely difficult. There is no way in which that can be done on a regular and sustained basis, although it can be done piecemeal.The general point that I want to make is that there is a 20-year problem here. I am delighted that the minister is entering into the debate in the context of steady improvement. Personally, I do not believe that there is any pressing need to reinvigorate the curriculum. However, there is a pressing need to reinvigorate the teaching staff. That is the most significant thing that needs to happen. Teachers are not immune to new ideas, but they are worn down by ceaseless innovation in education.We need a five-year period to let higher still settle and to let five to 14 get on the go. That will let the next stage in development planning take hold and allow teachers the professional status and breathing space that they have not had. I say that as a former teacher and it is important that Sam understands this. I left as a deputy head teacher, so I was removed from teaching by the time that I left education. I allegedly went into a high-stress job, but I would rather do that than go back into the classroom.The mood is right and I hope that the teachers' dispute is settled. I am sure that it will be. We can then build a consensus in education. It is too important a subject to have disharmony amongst politicians."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 104552,
      "EditedText": "I have one more supplementary question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 104555,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that. We are giving close attention to special educational needs and we will make progress on that issue. I recently visited a school in Fife to examine that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 104561,
      "EditedText": "Those schools were integrating fully with the normal school sector. That is why those are excellent schools and we must share their practice. We have had a report from Professor Riddell on special educational needs and we will consult on that within the next few weeks. A separate document will be produced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 104563,
      "EditedText": "I will move on to the document. I have a lot of questions, so I will try to keep them brief. On page 18 it states:\"Scottish Ministers consider that it would be appropriate to place themselves under a general duty to promote improvement and to exercise their functions in a manner designed to improve standards\".The term duty has strong legal connotations. Do you have any knowledge of the redress that there would be to parents if there were no improvement, or a fall, in standards?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5121356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 104572,
      "EditedText": "As I said, the legal position has not changed. If they feel that a local authority has not fulfilled its statutory duties, parents can take the authority to court. That has always been the case, and it applies to any function that a local authority must provide under statute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 104574,
      "EditedText": "As you know, I have declared my personal interest in this matter and I am not involved in any of the discussions or decisions related to it, so Peter will answer that question.The legislation is concerned with opted-out schools under the previous acts. I would like to remind the committee in passing that on several occasions I served on the relevant bill committee through the night. We were often teased by the then minister Michael Forsyth about how many schools would opt out. I am not sure why—perhaps we were supposed to say, \"Not many\", so that two years later he could point to 200 or so. We always said that it would be a handful, and it seems that even that was an overestimate of demand. In the end, there were only two. It was an unused and unpopular piece of legislation that we are committed in our manifesto to getting rid of. That is what this bill is about: returning opted-out schools to local authority control and removing the previous legislation from the statute books.Peter, do you want to deal with the other point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.527759+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 104577,
      "EditedText": "We should extend the rights of parents at St Mary's. Given that the school is opted out, I do not know whom parents would currently sue if standards have fallen since it opted out. I do not know whether that is the case, but our measure will enhance the rights of parents.The provisions of the bill deal with opted-out schools and the self-governing regulations. That was the manifesto commitment that the Government made before the election and that we are now pursuing. Jordanhill is not an opted-out school and is not, therefore, covered by the provisions of this bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 104579,
      "EditedText": "As I indicated, this provision tidies up the law in relation to self-governing schools. The reference at the top of page 45 is to the legislative background. \"Self-Governing Schools\" is not a generic term: that was the law at the time.Jordanhill has never been covered by the self-governing schools legislation. It predates that, for very clear reasons of which, I am sure, Mr Monteith is aware. The school is, therefore, in a different position, with a different legal status from St Mary's, which is the only remaining opted-out school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2167E79P155C104583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peacock, Peter",
      "ID": 2167,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Peacock: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 104583,
      "EditedText": "Under the terms of the legislation with which we are dealing, it is not a self-governing school."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 104584,
      "EditedText": "I cannot resist commenting on what Mr Monteith has said. As all members of this committee are aware, Dornoch Academy lies within my constituency. Like many other people on this committee, I have had a number of letters from parents whose children attend St Mary's Dunblane. The answer that I give them is this: whatever the history of Dornoch—and I do not think that Dornoch rose to Michael Forsyth's fly, but rather that its decision to opt out was the result of a Highland Regional Council problem of the day—the school has now returned to local authority control, and has done so happily. That is a tribute to Highland Council and to the parents and staff at Dornoch Academy.What I would say to Mr Monteith and what I have said to the parents in my letters is, \"Go to see the rector, go to see Highland Council, go to see how it is done\". It is far better to heal situations of this sort than to pick at the wound day after day. That does not help.I want to take a different direction and explore where Sam and Peter are coming from—what we see before us today, and what we might see in the future. Earlier, Sam touched on what might come before future meetings. When I saw the title \"Improving our Schools\", I thought that that would mean an end to holes in school roofs and that I would be able to get Thurso High School and Wick High School done up, Tain Royal Academy turned into a community school, and so on. This document is here and it is good. However, I want to explore the limits between what I am talking about, the structural issues, and what we have before us today.When I talk about school boards involving communities and accessing funds and having an imaginative way to approaching repairs and improving schools, I am thinking of devolved school management. The reason that I bang on about community schools, Sam—and I thank you for answering my questions in the chamber—is that community schools can improve school fabric as well as performing a socially inclusive role in a community. Where do you think improvement work will cut in? How does the document relate to the work that needs to be done? We have a problem with school structures in parts of Scotland. \"Improving our Schools\" seems to be about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 104587,
      "EditedText": "I have no immediate answer for you. We have no ideological view on public-private partnerships; we adopt a value-for-money approach. You made the contentious suggestion that if one area found funding from one source, money would be given to another area. I expect that that would produce an uproar.You touched on a wider issue. The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities has a formula on how moneys are distributed across boundaries. Perhaps it is not the best formula to deal with areas that have upsurges in demand as population shifts take place, as they have done in Aberdeenshire and Ayrshire, but I would be fearful of tampering with it without full consultation with COSLA. It is a contentious issue as it is concerned with the distribution of local authority funds and grants but the committee might like to pursue the issue when it talks to COSLA officials."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2205E42P161C104598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Galbraith, Mr Sam",
      "ID": 2205,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Strathkelvin and Bearsden"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Galbraith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 104598,
      "EditedText": "Education functions in child care are looked after by HMI. Regulation of child care covers a wide area. You will have seen the current consultation document on child care that considers the regulation of childcare. Child care involves much besides nursery education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.5433871+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104506",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 104506,
      "EditedText": "The introduction to the consultation paper says: \"Success depends on the commitment and professionalism of all those working on a day to day basis with children in schools.\"That is central to the entire improvement agenda, and it is one of the difficulties posed by discussing the proposals in this bill in a vacuum. Perhaps, Sam, you would care to say a word or two about the morale of the teaching profession and what you consider to be your role as education minister in ensuring that we have a highly motivated, respected and valued teaching profession? It is that kind of teaching profession that accompanies the passage of this legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 104510,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 104518,
      "EditedText": "Mr Galbraith has not answered the first part of my question, which was whether he thinks the morale of the teaching profession is as it should be, and if not, why not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 104592,
      "EditedText": "My second question also relates to HMI's role in inspecting local authorities. I have no difficulty—nor do I think anyone else would—with the concept of inspecting local authority education functions. However, is HMI the appropriate body to carry out the inspections? HM inspectors are largely ex-teachers; local authorities' education functions are not purely educational—they are affected by matters of finance and management. I wonder whether HMI has the resources, expertise and person power to carry through the proposals in the document. Would not it be more appropriate—as COSLA believes—to establish a new evaluation body for local authorities that is separate from HMI and the inspection of schools?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 104629,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that it is; I am asking what the Executive is doing to fulfil that pledge. I am not suggesting that it needs to be part of the legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.9270133+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Wednesday 8 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2129,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2129,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 104429,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4270101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 104461,
      "EditedText": "My question does not relate specifically to consultation with young people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4426355+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Improvement in Scottish Education Bill",
      "HeadingID": 2130,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ID": 2130,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 104496,
      "EditedText": "I have a point about school boards, then I want to go on to discuss the main body of the bill. The issue on school boards relates to the proposal in the bill to allow the move away from by-election and towards co-option. Given the difficulty in some areas of getting parents to stand for school boards, the frequency with which vacancies arise, and the fact that there are categories of co-opted members, I am concerned that the proposal in the bill could lead to school boards being made up almost entirely of co-opted members. The democratic legitimacy and credibility of school boards might be undermined as a result.In drawing up the bill, was consideration given to inserting a provision requiring a majority of school board members to be elected? It is important to retain democratic legitimacy for the work of school boards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4426355+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 104637,
      "EditedText": "I agree with your choice of areas for discussion, Mary. I am sorry to come back to an issue that I raised earlier, but I would like to take you up on an offer that you made. I think that the negotiations on teachers' pay and conditions are central to the education debate and I suggest that we invite Mr Galbraith back—possibly to our next meeting—to question him for half an hour on the state of the negotiations and on what can be done to break the deadlock."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 104658,
      "EditedText": "Did we get agreement on the previous issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 08 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 524
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-08T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 2131,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ID": 2131,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 519.0,
      "ContributionID": 104680,
      "EditedText": "That is a sensible compromise. In response to Ian's point, there is no suggestion that this committee should do the negotiation. That is what the SJNC is for and will, I hope, continue to be for. However, it would be useful if this committee could play a role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:25.8964308+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 7 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19267,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19267,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638322,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:19"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 7 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19267,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19267,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 638323,
      "EditedText": "We have two agendas today: an agenda and a supplementary agenda. We have had the benefit of both written and oral legal advice and, without further ado, we can begin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/32)",
      "HeadingID": 19268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 638328,
      "EditedText": "A further, minor point is that in SSI 1999/33 there is an omission in the explanatory note—it should refer to SSI 1999/15. It is covered elsewhere in the statutory instrument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/32)",
      "HeadingID": 19268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 638329,
      "EditedText": "There are four points to be canvassed with the Executive regarding SSI 1999/32: the fact that there is no letter to the Presiding Officer, the failure to refer to the commencement date, the two points raised by Fergus about the delay between making and laying the order, and the definition of commercial operations.More generally, we are asking at what point in the process we will be allowed to scrutinise fully the statutory instruments. For that, we need access to current law citations. Even if some time scale is given, we have all experienced the difficulties that the information technology department is having in a variety of matters. This one appears to us to be very important, however. I had understood that some arrangements might be made to allow us to use the Writers to the Signet library just around the corner. The bottom line should be that, if we cannot get access to information electronically, we should be granted access to one of the three substantial law libraries that are within 250 yards of this building."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/41)",
      "HeadingID": 19271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 19271,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 638337,
      "EditedText": "The next item is paper SL/99/3/4, concerning amnesic shellfish poisoning on the east coast. No specific issues were raised by the legal advice, but questions were raised regarding delays."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/32)",
      "HeadingID": 19268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 638330,
      "EditedText": "On that point, convener, I should declare an interest. I have a set of current law statutes, and I surmise that you do too. In the spirit of non-partisan co-operation and fairness, it would be extremely unfair if only the Scottish National party members of this committee were to have access to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:03.1620198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Spreadable Fats (Marketing Standards) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/34)",
      "HeadingID": 19270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 19270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 638335,
      "EditedText": "Which instrument is this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:03.1620198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/32)",
      "HeadingID": 19268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638324,
      "EditedText": "Various matters regarding the first item have been flagged up by legal advice and some recommendations have been given to us in writing. Does anybody wish to make a representation on what we should do regarding this item? I do not think that there are any fundamental problems, but there are matters that we may wish to raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/32)",
      "HeadingID": 19268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638326,
      "EditedText": "I can understand that the Executive might wish to leave the date blank until the relevant minister has signed the order, but it would be a courtesy if the Executive were to attach a note, explaining that the order will be signed by the minister and what the date will be. Otherwise, it is extremely sloppy as it seems perfectly reasonable that this committee should know the relevant date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C638331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/32)",
      "HeadingID": 19268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 638331,
      "EditedText": "Or only the lawyers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/32)",
      "HeadingID": 19268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 638332,
      "EditedText": "You two could bring them in every week and let us have a look at them. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Spreadable Fats (Marketing Standards) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/34)",
      "HeadingID": 19270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 19270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 638334,
      "EditedText": "Let us move on to the supplementary agenda and to paper SL/99/3/3 on spreadable fats. No specific points were raised with us by the legal office. Are there any points that members want to raise? I understand that that it is a negative instrument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/41)",
      "HeadingID": 19271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 19271,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 638339,
      "EditedText": "In our earlier meeting, we wondered how information about shellfish and any other matters would be relayed to interested parties. Perhaps we could ask the Executive to let us know—in case people ask us how they are supposed to know about something that has only been tabled and intimated to them belatedly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/41)",
      "HeadingID": 19271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 19271,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 638340,
      "EditedText": "Fergus, this item refers to the east coast, not the Highlands and Islands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/42)",
      "HeadingID": 19272,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ID": 19272,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 638342,
      "EditedText": "Paper SL/99/3/5 concerns Orkney. As with the orders dealing with discussion on products from Belgium, the date has been omitted. Here again, I think we need clarification. It is also fair to say that Fergus's previous point about the delay before the order was laid before Parliament is again relevant. We need clarification as to why there was a delay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Response<br />(Paper SL/99/3/6)",
      "HeadingID": 19273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ID": 19273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 638345,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:32."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/32)",
      "HeadingID": 19268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 638327,
      "EditedText": "I ask that two matters be raised with the Executive. First, could we have an explanation as to why SSI 1999/32 was made on 19 August, came into force on 20 August, but was not laid before the Scottish Parliament until 30 August? Could the Executive explain the delay?Secondly, paragraph 3 of the same order states: \"no person shall carry out commercial operations with respect to any relevant animal or animal product.\"However, there is no definition of the phrase \"commercial operations\" in the statutory instrument. There may be a definition in the head statute, the Food Safety Act 1990. It would be helpful, especially given that it is a matter that involves criminality, if the committee were told whether there is a definition of that phrase in the act and, if there is not, whether there should be one in the statutory instrument. In that respect, it would be helpful if members of the committee were to have access to current law statutes. I understand that statutes prior to 1998 are not available in the Parliament's information centre, which must make life difficult for those of us who do not have our own set."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:03.1620198+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products from Belgium) (Emergency Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/32)",
      "HeadingID": 19268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638325,
      "EditedText": "There are two matters that we should draw  to the attention of the Executive. First, both this statutory instrument and SSI 1999/33 are slightly deficient. In neither does subsection 1(1) state the date on which the orders should have come into force. Secondly, the Executive did not provide a 21-day rule letter to the Presiding Officer, explaining why the orders came into force before being laid before the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium (Control) (No 2) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/33)",
      "HeadingID": 19269,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ID": 19269,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 638333,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 on the agenda is paper SL/99/3/2, which deals with animal feedingstuffs from Belgium. The concerns that were flagged up for the first item on the agenda apply here too, as does Bristow's point about the omission in the explanatory note. Are there any other concerns apart from those? If not, the clerk will write one letter, which will deal with items 1 and 2 together and with the matter relating to the explanatory note."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Spreadable Fats (Marketing Standards) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/34)",
      "HeadingID": 19270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ID": 19270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 638336,
      "EditedText": "SSI 1999/34. It is about the contents of margarine. No points to be raised? All right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (No 2) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/42)",
      "HeadingID": 19272,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ID": 19272,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 638343,
      "EditedText": "In this order no date and no hour is given for when the order would come into force."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Response<br />(Paper SL/99/3/6)",
      "HeadingID": 19273,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ID": 19273,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 638344,
      "EditedText": "This is a matter that we canvassed with the Scottish Executive and we have received a written response. I do not know whether that satisfies the committee. It seems to be something that we will have to revisit at some future stage, given that the Executive is not in a position to clarify matters fully. It may be best simply to note that and to await hearing from them in due course.That brings matters to a conclusion. Apparently, in this committee we are not supposed to discuss any other competent business and I am not supposed to put it on the agenda. However, that issue may be canvassed in the conveners group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/41)",
      "HeadingID": 19271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 19271,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 638338,
      "EditedText": "SSI 1999/41 is a revocation order of the previous Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999. This instrument was made on 26 August and came into force at 4 o'clock in the afternoon of 26 August, but it was not laid before the Scottish Parliament until 3 September, around a week later. I think the Executive should explain why there was such a long gap, especially when we consider that this order was a revocation, lifting a ban on scallop fishing.I would also be grateful if the Executive could state when and how it made known to those involved—namely, the fishermen, especially on the west coast of Scotland and the islands—when the revocation became effective. Will the Executive make available to this committee a copy of the press release, or other method of communication, that stated the revocation of that ban?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4793685+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3611
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) Revocation (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/41)",
      "HeadingID": 19271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ID": 19271,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 638341,
      "EditedText": "Yes, you are quite right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:05.4793685+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 578740,
      "EditedText": "This is definitely the last opportunity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:06.0646609+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 578867,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that many academic studies have collated such information. We have only to identify those studies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 507.0,
      "ContributionID": 578904,
      "EditedText": "Many of the reasons that are given for meeting the committee are to discuss issues of local concern. Could you ask those individuals and organisations to give more specific subjects? If we knew exactly what they wanted to speak to us about, it might fit in with what we are doing; otherwise, we could miss something important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.0585835+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 578748,
      "EditedText": "In article 15 there is a great deal of emphasis on local management of fisheries. That is important, in terms of both conservation and local input. I am referring to page 46."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 578765,
      "EditedText": "Pull it closer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands Draft Plan 2000-06",
      "HeadingID": 17617,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17617,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 578730,
      "EditedText": "We attached a copy of our report to the papers for today's committee. It is important to note that most of the European Committee members were as one in their comments on the paper. They felt that it needed more of a strategic outlook, and we have reflected that in our report. They also wanted to see how European funding could be held for further years, perhaps through setting up a fund to help business in future.Lewis and I were given the draft holding statement outlining the position of the European Committee. We have glanced at it and it seems fine. That will go to the Executive. We will then have another chance to speak on the rural affairs and fishing parts of the document when they come to hand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 578752,
      "EditedText": "It is imperative that most of the measures that are before us form part of the new structural assistance. I know that the industry will support the continuance of those measures in the new programme, especially measures such as fleet renewal and modernisation, from which—unfortunately—our industry has not been able to benefit. The issue is not so much the content of the measures, but how they will be implemented. However, the committee should support the inclusion of all the measures in the new programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 578822,
      "EditedText": "Presumably we will consider the overall title of a big investigation that we want to undertake—in this case employment, housing and poverty—and then seek to identify priorities within that. Would that be a way forward?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 578828,
      "EditedText": "I agree with everything that Lewis said, but I think that, rather than decide just now to invite submissions, it might be useful to ask the clerk to bring back a note suggesting those from whom we are likely to want submissions. We would ask the clerk about sending them a draft letter so that we know what we are doing and whom we are contacting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 578846,
      "EditedText": "We should stick with that day's agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 7 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17615,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 17615,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 578661,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 13:59"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 578670,
      "EditedText": "It is obvious that many of the extra costs referred to by Mr Walker have arisen as a direct consequence of consumer confidence about public health over the past few months and years. I assume that the NFU's position remains that public health must be addressed first—will Mr Walker confirm that? We are trying to address the public health issue. The chief medical officer is coming before the committee on 5 October. In Mr Walker's opinion, is that the way forward?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John MacKintosh (President, Scottish Crofters Union): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 578664,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for inviting us to come before the committee to speak on what we regard as an urgent matter in the sheep sector. I must emphasise the importance of this matter, because sheep are important livestock, especially in the crofting communities and the hill areas of Scotland.I will concentrate on the problems associated with the cull ewe population. There are also problems with the marketing of lamb, and we would like the committee to consider those problems in its deliberations at a future meeting. I recommend that it do so in the near future. Opportunities exist to enlarge the market for lamb in particular, but in many cases the current crisis in the ewe market has diverted producers' attention away from them.The Crofters Union was first alerted to the problem in the summer of 1998 because of a lack of demand for cull ewes, especially with regard to Shetland. A high proportion of producers in Shetland eventually found that their ewes were unsaleable. A similar situation emerged in the outer isles, and had spread to the mainland by the time of the main cull ewe sales.Following a depressing sale at Ben Nevis auction mart, our local auction in Fort William, I wrote to Mr Donald Dewar on 2 November 1998 in his capacity as Secretary of State for Scotland, pointing out the difficulties that were being experienced by producers: a number of ewes were not selling and many were making less than the minimum commission charge of £1 per head. I tried to emphasise to him that this was a physical dislocation in the market, and not a question of incomes: that issue had already been addressed.Lord Sewel replied on 10 December and assured me that the Government was aware of the industry's difficulties. He also outlined a substantial package of aid that the Government had agreed to provide. As far it goes, we do not disagree with that reply, but a significant point in my letter was overlooked—that the matter had gone beyond the normal economic principles by which the livestock industry is expected to operate. It is also now beyond the ability of individual—and I emphasise that word—producers and farmers to rectify the situation in which they now find themselves.By that time the season had more or less run its course and so we let the matter rest because there were other issues to deal with in matters such as land reform. We became aware in the summer of this year that there seemed to be no preparatory work on, or discussion about, this season's matters. For that reason we referred to the situation in a press release dated 3 August, in which my colleague and vice-president of the union, Mr Donnie MacLennan, pointed out the importance of exports of sheepmeat in the long term. Sheep producers are facing a crisis that will not be resolved by a modest increase in exports. Crofters are already carrying far too many breeding sheep as a result of last year's market collapse, and all indications are that ewe buyers are not returning to the sales this season.Later, we issued another press statement. The Scottish Crofters Union has been consistent in its emphasis on the need for a cull ewe scheme that would relieve the industry of the surplus breeding stock that has been carried over from last year. Crofters who are trying to dispose of surplus ewes need to know now whether there will be a cull scheme this season.A number of commentators have claimed that the agricultural sector has brought this upon itself. The suggestion is that sheep producers are mostly responsible for the cast ewe trade. We disagree with that. A product can be brought to market and be unsaleable—no contract of sale can be agreed between a buyer and a seller—but not unmarketable. If that product cannot be given away free—and there are instances of that happening—there is only one option left to the producer, and that is to take the sheep back home.We were concerned —as were a number of other bodies—that a number of problems would arise as a result. There is the problem of the welfare of the animals over the winter period. There is the husbandry problem—these sheep are competing with others—and there is the problem that they are likely to come back on the market at some point. That is happening in a number of instances. There is also a possible environmental problem.Many producers have been considering the option of dispatching the animals and burying them on the holding. That option may have been carried out already in a number of cases. It is not something that we are in favour of: there are relatively few good burial sites on hill farms and crofts and we believe that such action would distress producers who believed that they were producing for a market but found that their animals were worthless and dead in a pit. We believe that a co-ordinated cull scheme is the appropriate way forward. The structure of the industry is such that it cannot co-ordinate such a scheme on its own; hence we believe that Government intervention is required. Ewes must be completely removed from the food production chain, collected, slaughtered and rendered, and the Government should meet the costs involved for the individual producer. Thus, producers would have sheep removed free of charge, regardless of where they are in the country, and those who face high transport costs, for example, would be treated the same as those who face low transport costs. The disruption in the ewe market—to which my colleague, Jim Walker, will refer, I think—arises from added costs caused by concerns about public health and, in particular, about the splitting of carcases for export. Primary producers have had to bear the burden of those costs, as people pay for the sheep and deduct the costs before the price reaches the primary producers, who have been disadvantaged relative to other European Union producers in a number of ways. It is important that the export market becomes as fully operational as possible as soon as possible. However, the problem in the cull ewe market requires an urgent solution and direct intervention must be put in place prior to the main cull ewe sales. That vital action is required immediately. If the Executive can set up a system before the main cull ewe sales, that intervention will cut out the possibility of attempted speculation where individuals try to judge how the market may work in their favour. If the scheme is operational, people will know that it is a definite option. I view this scheme in economic terms as it is a market intervention—a market adjustment. It should enable the price to improve on its own to some extent, apart from the other measures that we advise should be taken. If it is co-ordinated, it will be better regulated from the position of the environment and welfare. We are keen to see this problem put to bed as soon as possible. We have undertaken a number of studies that show that there is a very good image for the type of product that the crofter produces—there is a good crofting image and throughout Scotland there is a good product image as well. If we can rid the system of this problem and get people back to concentrating on what they should really be doing—and what they do best—which is producing quality lamb for a market, so much the better. I thank the committee for listening."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 578667,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Mr Walker.I now propose to open the floor for questions to the two gentlemen. I will allow members of the committee to direct questions to Mr Walker or Mr MacKintosh specifically, but I will also allow each gentleman to comment on questions directed towards the other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 578671,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. If we—as an industry and as individual farmers—have learned anything from the food scares of the past few years and the BSE crisis, it is that the consumer is king. We are consumers of our products, just like the man or woman in the street, and it is fundamental that consumers' interests are put first.On top of that, we have to consider competitiveness. In America, to use an example from the other side of the world, meat hygiene inspection charges in abattoirs are picked up by the public purse for the reasons that Mr Rumbles just mentioned. It is a matter of public health: the American meat hygiene service is beyond reproach; it is controlled not by the industry or by the agriculture department, but by the health department. The abattoir sector in America is subsidised to the sum of $700 million a year for meat hygiene inspection charges, because it is deemed worthy for the public health department to make that a priority. We are only asking for the same treatment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578672",
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    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 578672,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Jim that we must try to identify what has to be done now to resolve the situation and to settle what should be regarded as the strategy for the industry and the rural areas.It is vital that we identify the measures that can be taken now, get the problem out of our way and reach a position from where we can concentrate on the bigger issues that surround the industry. As crofters, we are very interested in what happens to the farmers. We do not sell directly to the Tescos or Safeways of this world—perhaps I should not mention individual supermarkets—but to people who are NFU members, further down the country. Those people are our first-line customers and if they are in a parlous state, that reflects back on our situation in the north."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578673",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 578673,
      "EditedText": "I want to address some of the emergency measures that both speakers accepted were necessary. I think that Jim referred to them as sticking plaster, but we may have to use sticking plaster before we set the bone. In relation to the cull ewe scheme, the factors that caused the dislocation in the market last year still exist, in terms of supply and depressed demand. How many ewes will have to be taken out of the system to reach what Jim would consider—even in the short term—an acceptable situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 578676,
      "EditedText": "Given that we are in a new situation, I do not know. I do not have a crystal ball. I have 300 of those animals to dispose of and I do not know what to do with them, so I cannot speak for other farmers. I have spoken to farmers at sheep crisis meetings throughout Scotland in recent weeks and I have found that there is a willingness in the industry this year to break the cycle once and for all. The problem has developed over the past two years, during which time people have been willing to take the risk that prices will return to normal. There is simply no chance that people will take that chance again this year. They need a solution that will allow them some kind of reasonable return next year. Yesterday, at a sale of black-faced ewe lambs in a market in Castle Douglas in Dumfries and Galloway, 1,500 fewer animals were presented at the sale than were presented at the sale at the same time last year. That resulted in a drop in the average price of around £5, which is nothing like the £12 or £15 drop that we have seen in centres where numbers have been maintained. Farmers learned a lesson yesterday and went home with relieved smiles on their faces because they had done the job right: they had taken responsibility for their marketing and created a situation where buyers had to pay a fair price. If that situation can be transferred to the cull ewe side, farmers will be responsible enough to make the scheme work properly. If it does not work, what are their options? We do not want to see images similar to those shown on the national media 10 days ago of calves being shot and thrown into a pit. We do not want that to continue for the dairy sector any more than we want the sheep sector to suffer that fate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578679",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 578679,
      "EditedText": "The first question was about how many ewes would need to be taken out by the cull scheme in order to restore some kind of market."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 578682,
      "EditedText": "The cost of the scheme—as I indicated in my presentation—also relates to the location of the ewes. The cost of getting ewes out of the Shetland islands is substantial, so the cost there will depend on whether a disposal scheme is set up on the islands."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C578683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 578683,
      "EditedText": "Last week, I met one of Scotland's main renderers, so I can confirm that, if such a scheme were put in place, there is the capacity for the ewes to be rendered down within about three months. That is similar to the Meat and Livestock Commission's proposal for such a scheme, which envisaged a period of about two to three months, from September through to the end of November. The capacity is available if there is any way of putting that scheme to practical effect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578688",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, gentlemen, for coming to speak to us. What you are saying is very informative and will, I am sure, help us in our deliberations. We hear the same story around the country—north, south, east and west. We are looking for solutions and ideas for addressing the situation. Money does not seem to be the answer—the problem will not go away at the wave of a magic wand. I was interested in Jim's comments on self-regulation and on the fact that producers were cutting the numbers being presented to the mart, which was effectively providing a solution in some areas. Many areas do not enjoy the same facility. As everybody knows, stock is being retained from previous years. If crofters do not dispose of the stock in the autumn, they will be landed with it through the winter, and the situation will get worse and worse. Can you suggest how crofters in remote parts of the Highlands, who depend mainly on sheep and cannot diversify to any great extent, can address the situation?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C578685",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 578685,
      "EditedText": "What I indicated was that we have a problem at the moment. Over the past few years, we have investigated the marketing of croft produce, which has a slightly different perspective from that of farm produce. The marketing of farm produce works on the basis of individual product quality—Scotch beef, Scotch lamb and so on. We think that the image in crofting—perhaps also in hill farming—relates to the region and to the geography of the area. Various surveys showed that the image was good and that marketing could be developed on the basis of that image. That is what we want to get back to.In the past, I have expressed concern about the general direction of Agenda 2000. The idea that we should ram down prices and then try to improve income by compensating for those lower prices is not, in my view and in the view of many of my members, a healthy way forward for the industry or for rural areas, because it undermines the quality and value of the product. In crises such as the one that we are now experiencing, the product value can fall to zero. We have already spoken about the price of cull ewes falling to zero, but at the bottom end of the lamb market, too, the price of one or two small lots has fallen to zero. That is not a major problem, but such cases have nevertheless occurred and fall outside our price classification structures.We must work strongly on the image of particular areas and create a market locally—as some people in our area are trying to do. By developing the market, we can drive up the price of the product. There are considerable benefits in that, even within the present support price mechanism, both for the producer and for public expenditure. If we get the prices up, the level of support for certain products will not need to be quite so high, assuming that we get back to reasonable incomes. The support mechanism should target the disadvantages of particular areas, so that agriculture is assisted across the country on a fair and equal basis.As Jim Walker has said, that is equally important when dealing with competitiveness throughout the European Community. I do not disagree with his statement that we must return to a situation in which there is a genuine single market, with the same regulations applying everywhere. However, that will not solve our current problem. We need to get that out of the way and to knuckle down quickly to solving the other problems, one by one.We in this country can deal with the problem that we have at the moment. The other problems, such as exports, must be dealt with in conjunction with other countries. In order to have successful exports, we need a willing buyer. The French may be perceived as willing buyers at the moment, but in the past they have been perceived as very unwilling—the committee may remember that there were disruptions at ports and other problems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 578689,
      "EditedText": "The crofters are in a very difficult position—the proverbial rock and hard place spring to mind—and that is why we are here today. The cull ewe scheme will not give them financial benefits. If the scheme is put into effect, it will get rid of what is essentially an environmental and welfare problem, but will do nothing for the financial difficulties of the sheep sector. However, as you are aware, the hill-farming review will begin in earnest soon. We do not need a crystal ball to know what the incomes of sheep farmers will be like this year, so the review is an obvious route, which has been used before, to give sheep farmers breathing space and get them through this winter. Apart from that, there is an opportunity in the short term to consider some of the restrictions that are placed on the trade of cull ewes from those areas and to consider some of the costs that are involved. Such an investigation need not take months or years, but could be targeted and acted on quickly. If restrictions in the cull ewe market cannot be eased in the short term because of problems with the Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee or with Brussels, the next best thing is to deal with the charges that are entailed in the new restrictions. As I said, other countries pick up the tab for meat inspection and specified risk material controls as a matter for public health, and there is no reason why that should not be the case in this country. That would reduce the negative effect of the costs that these producers have to suffer. If £6.50 of costs were relieved from a ewe that is worth minus £10, farmers could consider moving and marketing the ewe. Private storage aid for lambs is certainly a good idea, and should be initiated as soon as possible. It would relieve the pressure on the prime lamb market in the short term. There are more favourable indications for the prime lamb market later in the season. There is a shortage of pork and beef—in a beef market that has, at least partly, recovered from the BSE crisis—and we are well ahead in the killing of lambs this year. Some 270,000 more lambs were either killed or live-exported last week than at the same time last year. The Irish are 10 per cent ahead in their prime lamb kill numbers as well. There are no indications of recovery in the market for cull ewes, however. That is why our predicament is so serious. There is nothing underpinning sales of breeding ewes and breeding ewe lambs at the moment, whereas—in the hope of better times to come—the price of finished lambs is underpinning the markets for store lambs and breeding ewe lambs, because at least lambs that are not bought for breeding can go for killing.There are positive indicators out there. We should step back and think more clearly of a strategy. It may be that the strategy that our industry desires cannot be implemented—we are not stupid and realise that there will be restrictions from Brussels and from other countries that are not as keen as we are. If a strategy cannot be put in place by a certain date, it should be made quite clear how the industry will be supported until that goal can be reached. It is not that difficult if we set out a strategy and a time scale, but we have nothing at the moment. Everything that has happened on by-products and costs has been industry-led and has come up against a brick wall, because nobody has had the time or willingness to tackle this very difficult matter. The issue has been left to one side, and the competitiveness of the industry has been consistently undermined since 1995 and 1996."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 578690,
      "EditedText": "Would you like to comment, Mr MacKintosh?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 578692,
      "EditedText": "I am anxious to progress, but Dr Elaine Murray would like to ask a question. I encourage her to be brief, and hope that the answer will be brief also."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 578695,
      "EditedText": "On the question of employment, people can consider forms of diversification to maintain the farm or estate income. Those diversifications do not provide the same level of employment as livestock husbandry. They do not have the same multiplier effect in the rural economy. When they are set up they do, but once a woodland scheme is in place it requires a very low input of employment. Other rural industries are not in a bright condition. The tourist industry has experienced difficulties this year, and many of our members—and in particular their sons and daughters—work on fish farms, which have question marks over them as well.One of the problems is the declining interest among young people in rural matters. They look around to see what they can do, but eventually the best option is to come to the city to get a degree and a starting salary of perhaps £16,000, which is often twice the income of the household that they have just left. You will not see the immediate effect of this crisis; you will see its effect on succession in farms and crofts. Many of our members who are off croft employment are working on the farm or estate next door because their croft experience gives them good training for that sort of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 578703,
      "EditedText": "I would like to turn the question its head. Does Mr Finnie feel that there are measures that could be taken to encourage the practice of live exports?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 578699,
      "EditedText": "Both Jim Walker and Mr MacKintosh referred to the fact that farmers feel that they are not competing on a level playing field with their opposite numbers in other countries—specifically in other European countries. Given the amount of lamb and sheepmeat that we have to export, it is essential that they are able to do that. Does Ross Finnie accept the proposition that farmers do not compete on a level playing field on matters such as abattoir charges, veterinary charges and the other ancillary charges that they have to pay before they can sell their beasts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 578704,
      "EditedText": "That would have to be done within current regulations. We are constrained in the issues of live exports and dead-weight exports because those are highly regulated. I would not want to end up with a regime, but we are balancing—in the public's perception and the European Commission's perception—our image with the facilitation of greater exports. We desperately need those markets both for beef and lamb. They are crucial to the health of the industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 578706,
      "EditedText": "I do not know that it has been taken up with the DTI. That is a serious issue and getting on to a level playing field is imperative if we are to compete in a single European market."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 578707,
      "EditedText": "It appears that Mr Finnie would accept that there is a need to examine the call for a cull ewe scheme. I assume that this is one of the items on which he does not want to be too heavily pressured before his meeting tomorrow. Much as I would love to pressure him heavily I accept that that is the case and will not do so.Can the committee have an assurance that if a solution can be found, any financial cost incurred would be provided for with new money, rather than by a rejigging of existing budgets? I ask that question because it recently came to my attention that a moratorium had—from the end of August—been placed on the agricultural business improvement scheme. That scheme was meant to run until the end of October. There is money being saved there that could be used in other ways.A lot of people have put a lot of work into preparing applications for that scheme, which I think I am right in saying applies only in the Highlands and Islands. I would like an assurance that that scheme will run, and be open to new applications, until the end of October. I would also like an assurance that hill livestock compensatory allowance payments will remain at at least the same rate as last year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 578717,
      "EditedText": "Today, Ross and Jim have told us about the importance of public health in food standards and that the NFU still regards that issue as its No 1 priority. However, we keep hearing that costs are being piled on to the producer. As far as the Food Standards Agency is concerned, the Government has recently announced that it will not proceed with the charge of about £100 on food outlets. However, I hope that the minister will fight our corner on behalf of the rural environment and producers in rural areas by arguing that our producers should not pay for that.As for a level playing field for inspection charges, I am aware that in the US inspection charges are considered to be a health issue, which is different from this Government's approach. Will the minister confirm that he will be fighting our corner on behalf of the producers so that any extra costs on the agency go where they should—to public health instead of producers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 578718,
      "EditedText": "Convener, you would not expect me to compromise the health minister's position by commenting on matters of public health. However, on environmental and health matters, I—and my deputy minister with his responsibility for fisheries—have a wider responsibility to be aware of any potential imposition on any part of the agricultural sector and the subsequent impact on rural areas.Mike, I hope that I made it clear in my response to Richard that elements of cost need to be driven down. We can have a rational and serious debate about transferring such costs to the public purse and about what we need to cut to pay for them. For the moment, I am determined to ensure that we drive those costs down and keep them to the absolute minimum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 578721,
      "EditedText": "On the question of creating a level playing field, one of the complaints that I receive from farmers is that food safety and hygiene standards are less rigorously observed in other parts of Europe and for imported foodstuffs. Is that the minister's perception and has he any evidence of that being the case? Is there a case to be made by the United Kingdom for harmonising standards across Europe, so that our farmers are at least competing to produce food of the same standard as in the rest of Europe and do not feel that they are being undercut by inferior products from elsewhere?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578723",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 578723,
      "EditedText": "Are there any further questions for the minister? If not, we have come to the end of this part of the agenda, although not to the end of the committee's interest in the problems associated with the sheep industry and in the much wider problems that have been highlighted today. The minister referred several times to tomorrow's meeting. At this juncture, it is only appropriate that members of the committee should take this opportunity to say to everyone, including the minister, that we all have the interests of the sheep producer in mind and therefore have a common interest in the minister's success tomorrow. I am sure that everyone will join me in wishing you the best of luck in representing the interests of the Scottish sheep farmer. Thank you very much for attending this meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 578724,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. I also thank the members of the committee for their understanding about the tactical issues arising from the meeting. I am much appreciative of their indulgence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 578725,
      "EditedText": "We have a long agenda to get through, but I realise that a number of people may not wish to stay so we will have a couple of minutes' break, during which anyone who wishes to leave or to have a comfort break can do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 578726,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 578728,
      "EditedText": "We have apologies from Mike Rumbles, who is attending the conveners group meeting at 4 o'clock. I attended the first of those meetings, but as Mike did not, he has taken the opportunity to go to today's."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands Draft Plan 2000-06",
      "HeadingID": 17617,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17617,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 578731,
      "EditedText": "Are there any questions on the report? Lewis and Rhoda, were you able to take part in the discussion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands Draft Plan 2000-06",
      "HeadingID": 17617,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17617,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 578732,
      "EditedText": "Yes. George Lyon from the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee took part as well—it was an unprecedented cross-committee consideration. There was general agreement on the weaknesses of the paper and on what was required to move it forward for fuller consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands Draft Plan 2000-06",
      "HeadingID": 17617,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17617,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 578735,
      "EditedText": "Given the position that we are in, would it be appropriate for us to accept the report? It is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 578738,
      "EditedText": "Our comments must be passed on today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 578739,
      "EditedText": "The document is being considered by the Fisheries Council in October and comments from the Scottish Parliament must be fed into the process through Westminster. Effectively, today is the last opportunity for the committee to comment on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 578745,
      "EditedText": "Is it fair to say that at the moment it would not be constructive to go through the document on a point-by-point basis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 578749,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on article 15?Do members want Rhoda's comment to be noted and passed on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 578755,
      "EditedText": "Will we note that the committee is generally content with this document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17618,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 578757,
      "EditedText": "We can ask the Scottish Executive rural affairs department to give us a summary of the responses received during the consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17619,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17619,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 578769,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to item 4 on the agenda, which is consultation on a statutory instrument. At our previous meeting, I was asked exactly how we would proceed on statutory instruments. A sheet has been circulated, which outlines the general procedure.On 1 September 1999, the Parliament agreed to give the lead committee role on the Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999 to the Rural Affairs Committee and to invite the European Committee to make comments on the order to the lead committee by 1 October. The order came into effect on 21 August. It was laid under the negative procedure, which means that Parliament has power to annul the order by resolution within 40 days. In this case that means by 8 October—timed from the end of the recess. Any MSP may propose to the lead committee that the order be annulled. Should an annulment be required, the Rural Affairs Committee would have to report to the Parliament with its justification. In practical terms that means having a report for the Parliamentary Bureau by Monday 4 October, taking account of any recommendations made by the European Committee. Since that is what we have to do, it would be appropriate for the item to be put on the agenda for our meeting of 21 September. Would it be appropriate to have someone come to that meeting to explain the order in some detail, although not at great length, so that before we pass this on we have understood what it says? Members have a copy of the document in front of them. It is very technical—I am a farmer and I did not understand it. Who would be appropriately invited to speak to it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17619,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17619,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 578774,
      "EditedText": "Is there a committee member with expertise in this matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17619,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 17619,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 578775,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone wish to volunteer such expertise? It seems not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 578780,
      "EditedText": "I agree—we should see the report before we discuss the issue. The report will help us to decide on the way forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 578782,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 578784,
      "EditedText": "We must consider in the longer term exactly what they have in mind. We will defer this matter until all the relevant information is available, but we will discuss what further investigations we think are needed by SPICe, and suggest to it that this might be an area that needs further examination.We have been asked to refer our views to the Transport and the Environment Committee tomorrow—8 September. Do members have any views that would be appropriate for referral?This is a controversial situation, and one on which it would be difficult for this committee to comment at this point. I question whether we are in a position to give a coherent view to that meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 578785,
      "EditedText": "Is there a lead committee on this matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 578788,
      "EditedText": "Would not it be appropriate that we suggest to that committee that it, too, waits until it receives more evidence before coming to a decision, or should we merely report our desire to have more evidence presented to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 578795,
      "EditedText": "I seek guidance on the legislative aspect of those subjects. The land reform proposals will come before Parliament in any case. Does it therefore follow that the consideration of forthcoming land reform legislation will be out of our hands as far as timetabling is concerned? Are there any other bills that will come before this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 578798,
      "EditedText": "Yes. This morning, I found myself apologising to my colleague, Alex Fergusson, because he suggested that some time ago and I bombed him out—I think that that is the expression he used."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 578801,
      "EditedText": "If our mentioning the beef industry set a precedent, I hope that our hearing evidence about the sheep industry will have the same effect.Should we widen our interest in the Scottish beef industry to some extent? If so, how wide do we want it to go?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 578803,
      "EditedText": "At that time, we invited the chief medical officer to comment on the issue of beef on the bone. Do we want to add the sheep industry problem to our list as a further priority, or do we want to take the previously identified priority and widen it to cover the sheep industry? Do we want to define the priority as the livestock industry or as the whole of the farming industry in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 578814,
      "EditedText": "Yes. As a farmer myself, and remembering that this whole sector was once considered as the agriculture and fisheries sector, I am aware that I have to resist any temptation to creep—deliberately or otherwise—back in that direction. That point was well made, Cathy, and it is one that we have to keep in the front of our minds all the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 578816,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on the land reform part of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 578817,
      "EditedText": "I think that Irene's first point is important. What the briefing on employment, housing and poverty highlighted most of all was the enormous ignorance on those subjects and the amount of work that needs to be done to get a full picture. We have major agenda items pencilled in for the next two meetings but there is no reason why we should not begin to consider those issues methodically at the third meeting on our schedule."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 578819,
      "EditedText": "I presume that the best method would be to invite written submissions from bodies and individuals who are interested in those subjects, pick, perhaps, the more interesting submissions and then take oral evidence from those people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 578824,
      "EditedText": "Would there be any merit in linking in some of the work that has been done around social inclusion, for example? Much of that work centres on urban areas, but there are similarities with what happens in rural areas. We might want to involve Jackie Baillie; we could ask her questions and trawl as much information as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 578825,
      "EditedText": "There are academics and others who have made rural disadvantage their specialism. They would be some way down the track in terms of having the information or at least of helping us to determine how to get the information that perhaps is not readily available but which we want."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578833",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 578833,
      "EditedText": "The method that we have used in the past—it might be suitable for this—is that the clerking team sends out a letter immediately to those whom they have identified as relevant. The text of the letter and a list of those to whom it was sent is then circulated to the members of this committee, who can let the clerks have further suggestions of organisations or individuals that should be contacted. That way, anyone we suggest can be included without the need for a meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 376.0,
      "ContributionID": 578839,
      "EditedText": "It is far easier to get agreement among two or three than among 11."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 578843,
      "EditedText": "Can we make the press release and the letter available on the Parliament website?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 578845,
      "EditedText": "Although we have decided to extend the inquiry to the whole of agriculture in Scotland, Richard pointed out that the chief medical officer is coming to speak to us on the subject of beef on the bone on 5 October—we hope. Would it be appropriate to do anything else on the beef industry on that day, or do we wish to hear the evidence of the chief medical officer in isolation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 578850,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on land reform? I am always keen to hear every voice. We must decide whether we are to comment at this time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 578851,
      "EditedText": "My comments do not apply only to land reform but to all the other consultation papers that have a rural dimension. On transport, for example, we will not be the lead committee, but there will be a rural element and we will have to scrutinise the proposed legislation in great detail. That will allow us to have an input, either as individuals or collectively, before the final details are in the bill; we will be able to influence legislation at an early stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 578852,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that the legislation would, at that stage, be a draft bill, which would have to go out for consultation again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 578853,
      "EditedText": "It occurs to me that we have said on a number of occasions that members have a dual responsibility: they must work together as a committee and discharge their party political responsibilities outside the committee. Would it be appropriate for us to comment individually in our party political roles, and then comment on the draft bill at a later stage in our committee role? Irene, do you have any comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 578854,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy with that.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 578856,
      "EditedText": "To what extent should we take those SPICe papers to be authoritative—the be-all and end-all of information—on their subjects?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 578859,
      "EditedText": "The relationship between this committee and those who produce the papers is such that, should any member feel that there was an omission in a document, it would be in order for that member to contact the author of the paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 578862,
      "EditedText": "No. I was talking in general and will provide proposals later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 578869,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I also think that we should find out what information is available and then make that available to committee members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 578875,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned that time is passing and that little or no progress has been made on the restoration of the beef export market. Many of the problems associated with that situation exist in Scotland. We need to identify both what those problems are and what methods the Parliament can employ to help the restoration of the export market. It would do a service to the industry to keep the issue in the public eye and would hopefully give us a chance to define what problems are standing in the way of beef exports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 578876,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that. I think that this is a chicken-and-egg situation waiting for a virgin birth to happen. There are no facilities in Scotland to prepare beef for export because there is no market for beef exports and there is no market for beef exports because there are no facilities to prepare beef for export. We need to find out whether we can do anything about that situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 578879,
      "EditedText": "The matter seems to have faded away after all the publicity that was generated by the lifting of the ban, and other issues have taken priority. Given that the issue is not receiving as much publicity as it should, it would be interesting to know what the latest position is. Is it possible for SPICe to conduct some research into the current position of the beef export market?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 578882,
      "EditedText": "It would be worth asking the Meat and Livestock Commission, our agent for selling beef abroad, how negotiations are progressing with various European meat importers. The organisation should also be able to give us fairly up-to-date figures or some hope about when active export might happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 465.0,
      "ContributionID": 578883,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the SPICe team has met the Meat and Livestock Commission, which has been doing the rounds. That means that we will be able to elicit information from the MLC on the subject.Moving down the list, we come to Agenda 2000 reforms to the common agricultural policy. There is a report on that, dated 17 August, and I do not imagine that there have been any changes since then that would require further investigation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 578884,
      "EditedText": "We should be conducting an continuing investigation into Scottish agriculture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 578887,
      "EditedText": "During September, we are to receive briefings on transport in rural areas and on the strategy for Scottish forestry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 578889,
      "EditedText": "Oh, sorry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 481.0,
      "ContributionID": 578891,
      "EditedText": "Last week, the department said that one or two members of the Parliament had approached them for a briefing. The department felt that it would be more appropriate to plan a presentation for all MSPs with an interest in the subject, not just for members of this committee. I do not yet have a date for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 489.0,
      "ContributionID": 578895,
      "EditedText": "Is there a difference between the treatment of formal and informal meetings outwith Edinburgh?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 493.0,
      "ContributionID": 578897,
      "EditedText": "An informal meeting still requires expenditure that has to be approved, but I think would not fall under the rule that says that the bureau must approve the location of any committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 499.0,
      "ContributionID": 578900,
      "EditedText": "The committee of conveners is meeting at the moment, and we are represented there. However, I have already made that point and I will continue to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 516.0,
      "ContributionID": 578908,
      "EditedText": "The letter has just arrived."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 522.0,
      "ContributionID": 578911,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate for us to contact the Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency and get possible dates with a view to arranging a visit by members of the committee? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minutes",
      "HeadingID": 17622,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "ID": 17622,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 553.0,
      "ContributionID": 578926,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 17:11."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 578797,
      "EditedText": "We decided that the Scottish beef industry should be one of our priorities. In the light of today's evidence, perhaps we should widen the scope of our investigations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 578799,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish fisheries strategy is also an important issue. Perhaps, after a short investigation, we should subsume the shellfishing issue into that subject, especially if we are going to conduct major investigations over the next four years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 578830,
      "EditedText": "I raise the point so that we are clear that we have one strategy for undertaking investigations, as opposed to taking a decision within a few minutes and agreeing to send out a letter. We should have a note of how we are going to proceed with the whole investigation, and that should include a list of those to whom letters will be sent requesting submissions. If we could see that before the letters go out, we could be sure of having our strategy right before the investigation begins."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 578713,
      "EditedText": "I would like to follow on from Alasdair Morgan's point about the un-level playing field, a point that was echoed by the industry representatives. Since you came into office, have you initiated a comparative analysis of the red tape and costs that have to be borne by industry across Europe? Have you undertaken any analysis so that we know exactly what the situation is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:06.0646609+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 578737,
      "EditedText": "Do we have to deal with this matter today and never again?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:06.0646609+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 578886,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 497.0,
      "ContributionID": 578899,
      "EditedText": "At the conveners meeting perhaps it should be made clear that the Rural Affairs Committee, of all the committees that should meet outside Edinburgh, has the strongest case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands Draft Plan 2000-06",
      "HeadingID": 17617,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17617,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 578734,
      "EditedText": "One of the things that was suggested at the committee was that the plan was geographical or sectoral and that there was not enough crossover in the strategic planning. It was thought that the agriculture and fisheries parts should feed into the other parts such as infrastructure and that sectors should not be considered in isolation. It was also suggested that money should be targeted at less-well-off areas in the Highlands. Quite specific things were being asked of the strategic plan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 578668,
      "EditedText": "Jim, we are here to address the crisis in the sheep industry specifically and—quite rightly—you have broadened the issue to include the wider crises in the farming industry and rural areas. I know from first-hand experience of visiting dairy farmers, pig farmers and sheep farmers in my constituency that they all have crises on their hands. In your view, as president of the National Farmers Union of Scotland, which sector has the highest priority? Can you give us an indication of the priority that you would attach to the sheep industry, for example?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 578669,
      "EditedText": "Rather than prioritising the sectors, we should prioritise the solutions so that we can make the best and biggest difference in the shortest time. Some of the items that I mentioned in relation to rules and regulations and increased costs would have an effect across the sectors. Serious consideration of the over-30-months scheme would help the beef and dairy sectors. Serious consideration of the issue of costs and by-products would have a positive effect on the sheep, pig and beef sectors. This is not about discussions that would lead to the inevitable questions from journalists about financial aid packages and quick fixes. We have had quick fixes and aid packages before; all they have done is show up the immediate problems in the industry—they have done nothing to address its fundamental weaknesses.None the less, as a union we recognise—as I am sure John does—that short-term emergency measures will be required to see the most isolated people in the most difficult areas through this winter, in terms of putting food on the table. Those people simply will not have an income on which to exist and we should bear in mind the fact that this is the third year of the crisis, not the first.Even if there were a pot of gold to be distributed among the industry, to ask me to prioritise would be to do a disservice to every member of the union. As I tried to explain earlier, each sector's problems are intertwined and to shore up one sector for the sake of a quick, easy media victory would do no service to those who received the financial assistance and no service to this committee or to us as farmers.Unless we step back, once and for all, and ask how on earth we can allow ourselves to be more competitive, I guarantee that we will be sitting here at the same time next year, discussing the same fundamental problems. The farming industry is desperate for the chance to compete fairly and it is simply not getting that chance. In my experience with the NFU, in the past 18 months we have never gone to the Government with our hand out, looking for an aid package. Aid packages have sometimes been given because the logic existed for them and no one could argue against them, but that is not the issue. The fundamental issue is: give us the chance to compete."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 578665,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Mr MacKintosh. Before I ask members to put questions to Mr MacKintosh, I propose to take Jim Walker's piece. I will then invite questions to the two gentlemen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 578674,
      "EditedText": "There are something like 2.3 million cast animals in the UK; in a normal year, there are about 2 million. Therefore, there is a carry-over from last year of about 300,000 animals. In addition to that, there is the usual crop of five-year-old draft ewes, which leave Scotland's hills and come down to the lowlands for further breeding or for finishing, depending on their quality. Those animals do not have much fat on their backs at this time of year because of the nature of the terrain and because they have been nursing lambs for four or five months. Because of their poor quality, they are most at risk—the cost of processing such animals is more than the price of their meat. Once transport costs are included, an animal standing on a hill in Perthshire or in the Highlands has a negative value of about £10. If it does not have a recoverable meat value of more than £10, the farmer will have a bill to pay.Around 200,000 to 300,000 ewes in Scotland are in that category and need to be removed from the market to allow some sort of supply and demand equilibrium to develop. Because everyone in the trade knows that there are tens of thousands of such animals around the countryside, people pick and choose the ones that they want to buy. To an extent, such buyers are playing games with us because they know that they do not have to put their hands in their pockets and bid a fair price. If a large number of animals were taken out of the market, the ones that were left would command a reasonable price—nothing like the prices that were being reached 18 months ago, but enough to make selling them worthwhile. At the moment, people are buying ewes for one or two pounds and the market is left with as many as 100 worthless animals at the end of the sale. The dealers and the killers do not want those animals, as it will cost £5 a head to have them slaughtered and that money will not be recovered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 578677,
      "EditedText": "I would like to refer to the supplementary question first. It is difficult to gauge just how many people would respond to a cull ewe disposal scheme. Our impression, from consulting our members at various meetings, is that the majority would respond to such a scheme because they want to get this problem out the way and get back on the track to the future. The scheme could be presented as a window of opportunity to clear up the problem: \"Take this opportunity and the industry will get back on a safe footing. Stop thinking only about your own interest and try to think about the wider community interest.\" I am sorry, convener, I cannot remember the first question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 578680,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with the figure given by Mr Walker, but it is difficult to gauge. A number of ewes came into market, were presented at market and were sold and a number of ewes received offers at a very low price and were taken back home. When that situation broke last year—and we are not sure whether it will occur again this year—a number of people were too embarrassed to take the sheep into the ring; they went round the back of the auction mart, put them back on the lorry and took them home again. We are not 100 per cent clear district by district of the numbers, but I think that Mr Walker's estimate is fair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Walker: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 578686,
      "EditedText": "For the committee's information, between 1997 and 1998, the breeding ewe flock in Scotland increased from 3,666,000 to 3,732,000. If my maths from long ago serves me right, that is an extra 66,000 breeding ewes, which may not be very significant in the context of the overall number—there has been a carry-over and too many animals have been left on the market this year.I have one or two comments on the market for sheep. First, the 12 per cent increase in the value of sterling against the euro has made the French market, which is our main export route for prime lambs, extremely difficult for us. Secondly, we as an industry must always be aware that, with all meats that we sell from Scotland, we are part of a global marketplace. There is an over-supply of protein in Europe and throughout the world. We are competing against some very cheap products, such as pig and poultry meat, on the French market and in our home market. Lamb is not competing effectively against those products.Moreover, the problems of the pig industry, not just in the UK, but in the far east and in America, are at our door, and have to be taken into account in any strategy for the future. As if that problem was not big enough, the French have re-nationalised their lamb market, in which they are keen to sell locally sourced, French-produced lambs that are labelled as such. The vast proportion of lamb carcases that are exported from Scotland end up in a commodity market in Paris and are sold as Euro lamb: they start with a British sticker and end up being sold with a Euro sticker. Lamb from Scotland simply does not command the same value as French lamb. For example, last week, UK lamb was worth £1.82 a kilo in Paris; French lamb on the same market was worth £2.50 a kilo—a differential of around 70p a kilo. Seventy times 18 kilos, the average weight of a lamb, comes to around 14 quid. We are not, therefore, competitive in that market. Part of the longer-term strategy for the whole meat industry is to work on what the Parliament has helped to create this year: the image of Scotland. Let us start to sell products as Scotch beef, lamb or pigmeat—whatever it happens to be—and exploit that more. In France, there is still an interest in Welsh lamb and, to an extent, in Scotch lamb; there is certainly interest in Scotch beef, if we could get it there. That is something on which we must work far harder. All members will be aware of recent press reports about various attempts to establish a more appropriate body to take that issue forward in Scotland, something to which we are committed.On the problems that could occur in isolated areas, we have an opportunity, with Agenda 2000 and less favoured areas support—I am pleased that the people in the Scottish Executive most closely involved in that are here today—to change from a headage-based system to an area-based system, which could address some of the fundamental problems of that support scheme. Over the past few years, when product prices have been eroded year on year, farmers have, unsurprisingly, been encouraged to keep greater numbers, because that means more support. If the regulations are put into place effectively, we can break that link. That would allow numbers to be reduced in areas where it may not be appropriate to carry such stocking levels; it would also allow us to maintain a support mechanism that takes account of the fact that an area is isolated and that farmers there have to adopt difficult farming methods to make a decent living. There is also a chance to change the breeds. Until now, the definition of breeds has been appropriate for various levels of hill livestock compensatory allowance payments. It may be that, with a drop in numbers and the change in breeds, the animals that come off the most difficult hills, which at the moment hardly command any market at all, may become more appropriate for the marketplace that farmers seek. Those animals may find a market at 12 kilos in Spain or Portugal; they may find a market in Italy, where the quality of the animals coming off the hills is poorer. There are opportunities to achieve that in the current system and in Scotland alone. We can examine the problems in Scotland alone and in various regions of Scotland; we can put in place appropriate measures to take account of natural disadvantage. The Scottish Executive is aware of that disadvantage and is being encouraged to tackle it in some of its outline proposals for changing the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 578687,
      "EditedText": "I emphasise that we are running short of time, and I would like to bring the minister in as soon as possible. I see that a couple of members wish to ask questions, but I ask that we keep this reasonably short."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacKintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 578691,
      "EditedText": "Mr Munro mentioned crofters and people in remote areas. I was speaking to a haulier the other night whose costs have risen substantially. He has not yet changed his pricing—he is trying to live it out and hope for better times. A number of hauliers are finding themselves in this squeezed situation. At some point in the future they will either have to review their position with regard to haulage into the Highlands and Islands, or put up their charges. That will be reflected in the not-too-distant future in charges that have not yet been passed on to some remote areas.The question of transport is a major problem throughout the Highlands and Islands, as you well know. It is a question not just of the cost of transport, but also of the kind of vehicle that can be used. In some areas, around where I live, it is not possible to use an articulated vehicle. If that were possible, it would significantly reduce the cost. Most of the lorries that work in our area are 15-tonne load lorries and that adds to the cost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 578693,
      "EditedText": "I have spoken to a number of farmers who have told me that if things do not get better they will get out of farming. I have also had reports of farmers having to let staff go—shepherds and people like that—because they cannot afford to pay them any longer. Can you give any indication of the number of businesses that have collapsed, the number of people that have lost their jobs, and what the implications will be of not taking any action on employment in the agricultural sector?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
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  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 578696,
      "EditedText": "I now propose to move on and invite Ross Finnie, the minister, to speak. It has been suggested that I should allow the witnesses to return to the pub—Laughter—to their seats in the public gallery."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 578708,
      "EditedText": "The moratorium has arisen because we are coming to the end of the current European Union scheme and it is in serious danger of being oversubscribed. The second part of the information that you have had, about money being available there, is not wholly accurate. If we are able to put in place some form of cull ewe scheme, it will require us to find new money.I do not wish to duck your question on the HLCA, but you will understand that that is very much on the agenda for tomorrow, because it relates to the whole bidding. HLCAs have effectively almost come to an end. There are further payments to be made, but they are now governed by the new regulation. Part of tomorrow's agenda is to discuss, first, what bid will be made by the United Kingdom in terms of its total package and, second—the issue that you very properly raise and that is also of concern to me—the level at which HLCA payments will be made in the second part of this year. I understand the point that you are making and why you want to press me, but again, I do not wish to negotiate that point before tomorrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 578710,
      "EditedText": "What causes confusion and difficulty is that, when the amounts were announced by the former Scottish Office, it was stated that they were for one year. The provision is therefore on a one-year basis at the moment. I do not disagree with what you are saying in relation to statements by the European Commission. That is why I have to have a very serious negotiation on that point tomorrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 578712,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, in the new package there will be a replacement scheme through Highlands and Islands Enterprise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 578714,
      "EditedText": "I do not know that I have initiated an analysis. I have certainly asked for information to be gleaned as to how various other countries either pay for themselves or impose charges, and there is almost no uniformity across the European Union at all. Some countries have annual charges, which give the impression of being lower charges. What they work out at depends on how often they are paid. It is an unsatisfactory picture.With regard to costs relating to the imposition of public health measures, we need to consider what is happening in our own back yard before we criticise others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 578716,
      "EditedText": "As the minister, I propose to tackle the long-term problem in an entirely different way. I cannot dictate how the industry should be run, but I can play a crucial role in ensuring that all the parties are involved in discussions. I welcome the chance to discuss with Jim Walker his ideas for the short term and medium term. If we are considering how to help the sheep industry in the longer term, it is essential to provide more information for the primary producer—the farmer—and to involve people in the processing industry and those at the other end of the chain so that any plan fits with our actions. In that way, our knowledge of what is happening on consumption will relate back to the plight of the farmer. If economic changes should throw us off course, we will know exactly where we are and will not get caught cold. Such a task force might make up one of the groups that would examine the industry as a whole.I do not dismiss Jim's suggestion of groups to investigate charges, because it is a nonsense to pretend that the minister himself will solve such problems. Instead, the minister will be able to convene discussions with various parties to ensure a proper, informed debate to devise a far better plan for the short term, the medium term and the long term."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 578719,
      "EditedText": "The contribution from Jim Walker highlighted the effect of the introduction of the split carcase requirement, in particular, on exports. The committee welcomes the fact that the minister indicated that he would consider public health and hygiene costs and how they could be driven down in the context of the primacy of public health considerations. Has the minister had the opportunity to examine the split carcase requirement in that context and, if so, what conclusions have been reached?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 578720,
      "EditedText": "The split carcase requirement comes from the imposition of the specified risk material controls. As you know, the only attempt not to alleviate—it was hardly that—but to overcome that profound difficulty was to negotiate with the French authorities to ensure that they would accept whole carcases. Unfortunately, while the French authorities indicated that there were 21 dedicated sites to which whole carcases could be delivered, they insisted that whole lorries be dedicated to the purpose and be sealed before leaving this country. The only further movement that I have initiated with the French authorities is to try to get them to accept cages full of whole carcases, as opposed to whole lorries. I have also written to the French authorities to see whether we can get a slightly wider range of centres. However, there is no way in which we can obviate the SRM regulation—that is the position at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 578722,
      "EditedText": "That raises several issues. Any time that I have been with personnel or management from any of the major superstores, I have made it my place to inquire of them what standards they impose. They have assured me that they set standards that are compatible with those that we have in the United Kingdom. Health is another of the issues on the agenda for tomorrow's meeting; there are two aspects—the position in Europe as a whole and, just as important, the position of the World Trade Organisation. The WTO seems to be almost disinterested in health standards, which it appears to regard as some sort of moral standards. The view seems to be that if countries care to set such standards, that is their problem. As far as the WTO is concerned, it is there to promote free trade. It is therefore vital for the United Kingdom to make it absolutely clear to the WTO that first, we want health standards to be uniform across Europe and secondly, we do not want to compromise on that position. That is what I shall press for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands Draft Plan 2000-06",
      "HeadingID": 17617,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17617,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 578729,
      "EditedText": "We now come to item 2 of the agenda. We appointed Lewis Macdonald and Rhoda Grant as reporters, and they attended the meeting of the European Committee at which the paper was discussed. Their report has been circulated to members, and I invite one of our reporters to speak on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Highlands and Islands Draft Plan 2000-06",
      "HeadingID": 17617,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ID": 17617,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 578733,
      "EditedText": "We could move on briskly, but I am anxious not to come to a conclusion while John Munro is not present. Would anybody like to make any further comments on the report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 578736,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is consideration of the Agenda 2000 consultation paper on EC structural assistance in the fisheries sector. Our timetable requires us to deal with it today. I have read through the document; I assume that all members have done so, too. We will take the document heading by heading and invite comments as we go through it.The areas that have been highlighted by the Executive and by the assistant clerk, who wrote a report on the document, start at article 6. Would anyone like to comment on articles 1 to 5?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 578751,
      "EditedText": "For the benefit of John Munro, I repeat that today we have an opportunity to comment on this document. Given the time scale and the way in which information will be fed forward, this may be the last opportunity that we have to do that. I am, therefore, keen to ensure that anyone who wants to comment on the articles is able to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 578753,
      "EditedText": "I have read the document and there is nothing in it that I object to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 578754,
      "EditedText": "It is of value to us that the European Committee has examined this and made comments, which run along the lines that the structures for delivering support are appropriate. As Rhoda mentioned, regional management of fisheries and the renewal of the fleet must be done in a particular way. As far as it is possible to judge on a quick look, the regulations point in the right direction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 578760,
      "EditedText": "Nothing would stop this committee from commenting on any aspect of this matter at any time. This is an opportunity to feed into this consultation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 578761,
      "EditedText": "In article 16.1A—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 578766,
      "EditedText": "Article 16.1A refers to the cessation of fisheries caused by biological factors. That seems relevant to the ban on scallop fishing in the Minch, but it is not effective until 2000. That fishery has been suspended for the past three months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 578768,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17619,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 17619,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 578771,
      "EditedText": "We could ask for a written memorandum, but I think it is often more effective to have someone come along and go over a document. It is quicker and easier to understand. If members are content, we will take that course of action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17619,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 17619,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 578772,
      "EditedText": "We may find that we do not want to do that with every order but, as this is the first, it would be particularly helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17619,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 17619,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 578773,
      "EditedText": "As we all know, committees other than this have, in the past, nodded through such articles and lived to regret it. We will ask the rural affairs department to send someone with an understanding of the area to highlight the issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17619,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17619,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 578776,
      "EditedText": "Then your suggestion, convener, is the best course of action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17619,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 17619,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 578777,
      "EditedText": "It will be put on the agenda for the meeting of 21 September. You will notice that the clerk has carefully stapled together my paperwork this week so that it does not spread across the table and get lost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 578779,
      "EditedText": "This is an area in which there seems to be a distinct lack of scientific evidence, but about which there is much prejudice and people think they know what is going on. I understand that a group has been set up by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions to gather evidence on the situation. That group is expected to report later this year. We should take no action in the meantime—certainly not until we have a firm base of evidence on which to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 578781,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate to consider asking the Scottish Parliament information centre to correlate the information that is currently available with the forthcoming report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 578783,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Alasdair and Cathy. The other thing that worries me a little is the owners' suggestion that they could legitimately protect their pigeons. What exactly are they driving at? If the owner has a shotgun, can he let it off when he sees a hawk? I am not quite sure what is being asked for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17620,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 578787,
      "EditedText": "Is it the view of this committee that it would appropriate to report to the Transport and the Environment Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 578789,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair and appropriate comment for us to pass on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17620,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 578790,
      "EditedText": "In doing that, would we be suggesting to that committee that we would be able to come back to the subject?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17620,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 578791,
      "EditedText": "Yes. It would certainly be appropriate that we comment once we have the relevant information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 578796,
      "EditedText": "I agree. I would be interested to hear other comments on land reform and on whether it would be appropriate for us to wait until the bill is laid before us.As to other bills that may come our way, there is some confusion about whether the member's bill on fox hunting will come to this committee or to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. That appears to be up in the air at the moment.Does anyone have any other comments on how we should order our priorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 578800,
      "EditedText": "It is ironic that, since we first discussed the matter on 5 August, the beef industry has become the best sector of British agriculture to be involved in. That has come about quite quickly, which shows how rapidly the structure of agriculture is changing at the moment. Members of the committee will agree that the evidence of the two witnesses whom we heard today lends powerful weight to the argument that we should be considering the state of Scottish agriculture as a whole, rather than just the beef industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 578815,
      "EditedText": "The No 1 priority that we identified at the beginning was employment, poverty and housing, and—apart from our very good briefing—we have not had the opportunity to debate any of those issues. As the situation in the farming industry is causing an increase in unemployment and worse poverty among people in rural areas, those issues may now be even more pressing. They are slipping down the agenda. We have pre-set dates for other aspects of our agenda, but no date has been set—even tentatively—for us even to start to consider the issues that we identified.Where there is proposed legislation, such as that on land reform, and where there is a consultation paper, would it be appropriate for this committee—either collectively or individually—to respond at the consultation stage, rather than simply to wait for the bill to come before us? A precedent has been set: we were invited to respond to the forestry consultation paper and to the cattle passport initiative. I do not know whether any other members did, but I responded to the forestry consultation. Do we want to get involved at an earlier stage—at the consultation stage—and be proactive in making an input before a bill is put to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 578818,
      "EditedText": "Are there any suggestions on how to pursue that? It is a sound proposal. I am not comfortable with defining the route that we should take and am open to members' guidance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 578831,
      "EditedText": "I am anxious that no organisation or individual who feels that they have something to contribute should be denied the opportunity at this early stage. For that reason, I am not entirely averse to the blunderbuss approach of asking for anyone to write to tell us what they think. We may proceed at the next stage by the method that Richard outlined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 362.0,
      "ContributionID": 578832,
      "EditedText": "How do you intend to invite people to make submissions if you are looking for as wide a spread as possible? What would the mechanism be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 368.0,
      "ContributionID": 578835,
      "EditedText": "I agree. We are anxious not to get only the usual people who respond. Their information is important, but I want to ensure that communities can say how the issues are affecting them. We need to have as wide a spread as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 372.0,
      "ContributionID": 578837,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 578848,
      "EditedText": "I think that that might be a bit precipitate, given that the consultations will be put together in the form of a draft bill anyway and we will get the opportunity to comment at that time. It might be better to wait until the department has finished collating the responses to the consultation before we comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 578849,
      "EditedText": "That view is broadly correct, but my understanding is that the land reform bill proposals will be part of a rolling programme of land reform. It would be useful if the committee were briefed on where those proposals fit in to the wider project of reforming Scotland's land laws. We will have a role in dealing with the legislation, and I would want to concentrate on dealing with them in committee formally, but there is room for examining other aspects of the land reform proposals through briefings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 578857,
      "EditedText": "We have to accept that the SPICe papers contain the information that is available and are prepared by an individual who has done a professional job. However, we should also use information that we gather from the public domain and continue to rely on our own experience."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 578861,
      "EditedText": "Alex, do you have a specific proposal for a revision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 578863,
      "EditedText": "We have spoken about priorities and I want to run through the topics listed to decide what research papers we want.We have outlined the way in which we would like to proceed on employment, housing and poverty. Would any research that has already been made available be appropriate at this point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 578864,
      "EditedText": "Local authorities and local enterprise companies might have useful demographic information, particularly about employment. Some local authorities keep information on housing and poverty in their areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 578868,
      "EditedText": "We should be given what has already been written and find out what else is available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 578871,
      "EditedText": "We are probably talking about pages and pages of statistics that will become relevant when we decide how to proceed. However, at this point, it would be appropriate to find out where those statistics are and how they can be made available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 578873,
      "EditedText": "Does any member wish to raise any other points about employment, housing and poverty? I understand that the SPICe team is keen to schedule its work, which is why the team wants to know what information we may require in future.I will move on to the topic that we have renamed \"agriculture\". We have mentioned the priority issue of the Scottish beef industry. Perhaps we should make progress on that matter as part of our broader investigation into the Scottish agricultural situation. As committee members have already discussed the problem with the resumption of beef exports, what do they feel about making progress on that issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 578874,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we can take a sensible look at Scottish agriculture without examining how we can restore beef export markets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 578878,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to keep up to date on any developments in the beef export market. I believe that the market is zero at the moment and that nothing has moved since 1 August. We should be kept up to date with any changes in that situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 485.0,
      "ContributionID": 578893,
      "EditedText": "The briefing from the department will set some of the parameters for the things that we may want to look into in detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 487.0,
      "ContributionID": 578894,
      "EditedText": "We note what Lewis Macdonald has said. Let us move on to other matters on the list, including potential visits. A programme of visits has been set out. We discussed whether it would be appropriate to move the lost meeting of Tuesday 30 November to the following Friday. Shall we put that into the minutes as a decision? Members are agreed. So the meeting that would have taken place on 30 November will now take place on 3 December.We have largely covered the programme of business, we have set out a programme to cover the next two meetings, and we have provisionally agreed the subject of the next meeting after that. We are aware of where the investigations that we are to conduct will fit in with our broader strategy and with our priorities.We have been presented with a strategy for deciding how committees ought to use the limited budget that is available for travelling around Scotland. We have said in the past that the Rural Affairs Committee, perhaps more than any other, should be prepared to meet in places other than the Parliament in Edinburgh. We also identified early on that budgetary considerations would be important. The situation has now been explained more clearly. Before the committee is able to meet outside Edinburgh, we will have to be very careful about how we decide when we should do that. The outline procedure suggests that the subject of the meeting should be relevant to the local population and the committee should show that it will benefit the people in that area if the committee meets there. Where a site visit is proposed a committee should demonstrate that it is essential to enable it to understand the topic being considered. Where the committee wishes to hold an informal meeting outside Edinburgh it should be able to demonstrate the benefits it believes will accrue to the committee or the local population."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 578905,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we ask those individuals and organisations to outline their areas of local concern and that we tell them that they will remain on our database and will be approached on any subject on which they might be able to help us. Their invitations could be taken up in due course, if they become relevant to an investigation. I believe that that will encourage them to become involved in the processes of the committee, but will avoid the problems of funding our travel around Scotland. It is a long-term aim of mine that the committee be seen to move round Scotland; the Highlands and Islands, in particular, needs to feel that it is part of the processes of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 512.0,
      "ContributionID": 578906,
      "EditedText": "And the south of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 530.0,
      "ContributionID": 578915,
      "EditedText": "Let us have a show of hands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 540.0,
      "ContributionID": 578920,
      "EditedText": "We will make further contact to arrange something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 542.0,
      "ContributionID": 578921,
      "EditedText": "The pig farmers are due a lot of support. It is one of the agricultural sectors that does not get any state subsidy or support."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 544.0,
      "ContributionID": 578922,
      "EditedText": "The content of the presentation is likely to be an explanation of the pig farmers' position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minutes",
      "HeadingID": 17622,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17622,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 547.0,
      "ContributionID": 578923,
      "EditedText": "Members will notice that the minutes of the previous meeting are published at the back of the paper that was issued for today. The clerk tells me that it is not a requirement that they should be published, but that it has been suggested that it would be appropriate to include them so that anyone wishing to comment on them can do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minutes",
      "HeadingID": 17622,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "ID": 17622,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 549.0,
      "ContributionID": 578924,
      "EditedText": "I have no wish to be awkward, but I would like it to be recorded that I did not know that the meeting was happening, rather than have it appear that I did not turn up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Minutes",
      "HeadingID": 17622,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 546.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17622,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 551.0,
      "ContributionID": 578925,
      "EditedText": "We will look into methods of communication. The next scheduled meeting is on 21 September, when we will examine the problems associated with the current ban on shellfish fishing because of amnesic shellfish poisoning. Are there any other comments relevant to this meeting? Not any other competent business, you understand. Laughter. It was quite an achievement to do everything that we have done in three hours and 11 minutes. Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 7 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17615,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17615,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Alex Johnstone): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 578662,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It is a great pleasure to have so much public interest in this committee. For the information of members of the public and observers, headsets are attached to your chairs and the sound from this meeting can be heard on channel 1. I hope that will assist anyone who cannot hear the proceedings. I am afraid that I have no expert knowledge of how these things work, so you will have to work it out for yourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 578663,
      "EditedText": "On behalf of the members of the Rural Affairs Committee it is a great pleasure to welcome Ross Finnie, the Minister for Rural Affairs. I am grateful that he was able to attend this meeting at such short notice. I also welcome Mr John MacKintosh, President of the Scottish Crofters Union, and Mr Jim Walker, President of the National Farmers Union of Scotland. I invite them to take their places at the table.Item one on the agenda states that we are to examine the effects of the current crisis in the sheep industry. That is why the two gentlemen who are seated at the table were invited to give evidence. Subsequent to the arrangements for this meeting being made public, I received representations from the Scottish Landowners Federation and the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, both of which believed they should have been asked to give evidence at this meeting. I suggested to them that if they wished to make written submissions they would be circulated to committee members in advance of this meeting, and that the committee could take the points that they raised into consideration. Those submissions are now in the hands of committee members. We received today a representation from the Meat and Livestock Commission, which is also in the hands of committee members. We also received a letter from Tavish Scott MSP and Jamie Stone MSP, asking for this committee to establish an inquiry. The discussion on the first agenda item will form the first part of any such inquiry that we organise.We will now receive evidence from, and ask questions of, our guests. I do not know whether a ballot was conducted, or whether the order of names was drawn in some other way, but the first name on the list is Mr John MacKintosh."
    },
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  {
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jim Walker (President, National Farmers Union of Scotland): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I wish to echo the sentiments expressed by my colleague, John, in his address, as far as the cull ewe scheme is concerned. I also wish to take this opportunity to thank the Minister for Rural Affairs for his intervention last week, as far as the lamb market is concerned. For the past two or three weeks, we have argued for the introduction of private storage aid—I was in Brussels last week making that argument—and we hope that that can be set in motion as quickly as possible in order to underpin the lamb market. For that reason, I do not intend to concentrate too much on the lamb market today. I wish to broaden out the issues beyond a cull ewe scheme. The problem with unwanted ewes and dairy calves—which are already being shot on farms and buried in pits because they are no longer required by the market—is far more deep-rooted than a simple short-term oversupply of the product in the marketplace. The problems of the agriculture industry are not confined to the sheep sector, although I understand that that is the thrust of this committee's suggestions today. Agriculture in Scotland is completely intertwined—every sector relies on all the others. The price collapse in dairy farms and the collapse of dairy farm incomes during the past two years, combined with the collapse of incomes in the arable sector—Scottish Office figures from last year show that dairy farm incomes were down to an average of £47 per head and that in the arable sector negative incomes were recorded across Scotland—have been partly responsible for the collapse in sheep prices this year. No one sector can exist alone. Perhaps I should explain. Lowland finishers in the east, who produce barley and wheat, go on to buy lambs and breeding stock from the people in crofts in the high hills. That is simply not happening now because of a lack of disposable income on lowland farms. Their core business is suffering to such an extent that—after having suffered two years of losses—they do not have the kind of cash to take a chance in the marketplace. Nor do they have any inclination to take such a chance, if they have shed labour to try to simplify their farm systems and reduce costs. The problem is far more deep-seated than simply cull ewes or dairy calves being unwanted.I will give the committee a graphic example of how the problem can affect a particular economy—Dumfries and Galloway—where I know that at least three members have an interest. Three weeks ago, in two sales of cross ewe lambs—two of the main breeding sales in the area—30,000 lambs were sold and we lost £800,000 of income. If you accept the Government's own figures of a multiplier effect of two and a half in agriculture—by which I mean that for every £1 agriculture generates in direct income to the industry it generates economic activity of £2.50 around that, most of which, because of the nature of farming, is spent in the local rural economy—you can see that the loss from those sales was more than £2 million. You can imagine what that would do in a community such as Dumfries and Galloway, where agriculture contributes 23 per cent of the gross domestic product. That is the scale of the problem. It is not simply a question of cull ewes or calves or individual sectors suffering a short-term financial crisis; it is a far wider problem. It is entirely appropriate that the Rural Affairs Committee is considering this matter today; it is indeed a problem for the whole rural economy and not simply for the farming sector.I agree with some commentators that, in the sheep sector, the industry has contributed to an oversupply of ewes this year. However, two years ago, the same animals were worth somewhere between £30 and £40. Last year they were worth less than £10; some of them were worth nothing. It is not surprising that human nature suggested to some people that it was worth taking a chance in the hope that the market might regain some of its value and that they might be able to trade those animals to some advantage this year. Yes, parts of the industry retained ewes, but that is not surprising. When something is worth virtually nothing it is always worth a risk.The problem goes back to a decision at the beginning of January 1998 to remove the spinal cords from these animals. The decision meant that we cut off our main export market for ewes—France. Despite repeated attempts in the 19 months since that particular piece of legislation came into force, there has been no real recovery in that market. There has been some tinkering with the regulations, and there are now 21 dedicated plants in France to which ewes can be exported, but—quite honestly—it is not a competitive place in which to sell sheepmeat, simply because of the rules, regulations and costs that are involved in this country in that kind of export. In the past two weeks I have spoken to one of the largest ewe exporters from Wales; a man who was exporting 3,000 animals a week, but who is now exporting 300 a week simply because he cannot afford it. That has knock-on effects; he has paid off 20 of his abattoir staff in the past year and a half because there is no need for them.So what about the charges to the industry? What effect have they had? I will give an example from a slaughterhouse in the Edinburgh area from this morning. Since the BSE crisis, and since the Meat Hygiene Service took over inspections from local authorities in 1995, inspection charges in that abattoir—which kills around 600,000 animals a year—have risen by £3,000 a week. That is as a direct result of the increased costs, regulations and legislation that has been introduced in the United Kingdom.Furthermore, we have specific risk material charges amounting to almost £2 per animal for the removal of SR material, its disposal and loss of value. Before BSE, a mixed tonne of offal from an abattoir had a top value of about £90 a tonne. It dropped to around £45 a tonne in the wake of the BSE crisis in 1996 and now there is a charge to the abattoir of £35 a tonne. That cost is passed straight back down the line, first to the finisher of the animal and eventually to the highest hill farmer, who has the fewest options. That problem is fundamental for the industry and its future prosperity. Costs are being levied here that are not being levied in other European countries. We simply cannot compete. Any short-term measures that the minister may care to take, either in co-operation with his UK colleagues or in isolation from them, are a sticking plaster to a broken leg. They do not address the problems of competitiveness in our industry that are bleeding it dry. The costs go far wider. I have mentioned the SRM and MHS inspection charges, but so many other regulations and pieces of legislation have been levied against us over the past three years. We have no strategy for getting rid of over-30-months cattle. We have no real alternative to removing the spinal cord from ewes. If that legislation was overturned and we were allowed to export whole carcases again, there would be no issue of cull ewes in the disposal scheme because we would be competitive in a European marketplace. The raft of other rules and regulations that this country has chosen to apply, many at a more stringent level than is applied elsewhere in Europe, is undermining the competitiveness of the industry. My key message for the committee and for the minister is this. Last week, his English colleague, Nick Brown, announced that he is going to set up a review body to look at all the problems of the livestock sector. We have a list of the problems already. I have sat on committees, sponsored mainly by the industry, for the past 18 months. We have detailed submissions on the exit strategy for by-products from the pig, sheep and beef industries, on the lifting of the over-30-months scheme and on the differential charges for SRM and MHS inspection controls. We know the problems—we have spent a long time on them. The real problem is that nothing has been done to address them and find solutions. I have every sympathy for the staff of the Scottish Executive, previously the Scottish Office, who have been snowed under for a year and a half with endless regulations surrounding the Food Standards Agency, the over-30-months scheme and so on. They have neither the time nor the financial resources to address the problems and find solutions. We do not need another committee or another layer of bureaucracy from today's and tomorrow's meetings; we need a dedicated task force of a small group of people, some with political clout and experience of how the civil service works, and some from within the agriculture industry, both farmers and processors, who know how to put solutions into practice. We do not want people who sit down and write rules and regulations somewhere far from here and who have no idea of what they are proposing for the industry. That is the key message—let us look at what we are doing to ourselves and how we are undermining the future prosperity of the industry. That applies to other industries as well. To add one aside before I finish, if I may. I drive up to Edinburgh four or five days a week and I have passed the same coal lorries every morning for the past 18 months. There are more than 100 of them working from opencast sites owned by a small firm based in Cumnock in Ayrshire. This morning I passed them as usual and for the first time I saw seven lorries with Irish registration plates. The lorries are now satellited out and their registration and HGV licence fees are paid for in Ireland. The UK Exchequer gets no benefit. Transport policy is undermining the capacity of farming and associated industries to contribute to the economy of Scotland. Today's example shows the stark reality of what is happening. The central transport policy from Westminster impinges on the people who use the roads and the fuel that pollutes the atmosphere, but the main users will soon be foreign-registered lorries and foreign-owned companies that pay nothing towards the upkeep of the roads or to offset pollution. That carries over to other inputs to agriculture. In the case of veterinary medicines—which are particularly relevant to the sheep and dairy sectors—we often pay twice as much as people do in Ireland, France and New Zealand. In many cases that is not because the marketplace justifies a high price, but simply because the pharmaceutical manufacturers choose to levy a large cost against the industry.As a dairy farmer, Mr Johnstone, you will know that if you have 120 cows and chose to buy your dry cow therapy—the inter-mammary tubes that you put into a cow as you dry her off before she calves—in southern Ireland, you would save your business £6,000 in one year. The same medicine costs £6,000 more a year in this country. Bearing in mind that the average dairy farm income last year was £47, I am sure that a £6,000 saving for that one item on your veterinary medicine bill would be of great benefit to the business.Last year, the Scottish Office produced a weighty document—and an expensive one; we paid £50 for it—called \"Towards a Development Strategy for Rural Scotland\". The publication date of that document was August 1998. A year later, there have been little or no practical results from it. I would like to draw the committee's attention to page 19, paragraph 83, where the Government said:\"The Government believe that, with the creation of the Scottish Parliament, now is the most auspicious moment for many decades for the development of a policy framework truly responsive to the needs of rural Scotland.\"If ever there was a need for that policy statement to be put into effect, today is the day."
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
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      "EditedText": "I have a supplementary question. Obviously, such a scheme would require the Government to take action but it would also require the co-operation of the members of the NFU. Will any of your members be tempted to hold back from the scheme because, if prices go up, their ewes will be worth money again? Will that be a significant factor?"
    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Will Alasdair Morgan repeat the question?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578681",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
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      "EditedText": "It is nevertheless an important question for the Government. If it were to go down this line it would have to find the cost of funding the scheme and the capacity for dealing with all the ewes."
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  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578684",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 578684,
      "EditedText": "I was interested in the difference in emphasis between the two contributions. A couple of times Mr MacKintosh talked about the need to get this problem out of the way in order to deal with the wider and longer-term problems. I am interested in his view on what some of the longer-term roots of the problem are. Obviously we are considering the short-term issue, but I am interested to find out how far he concurs with some of the points that Mr Walker has made about the wider market difficulties, such as the relationship between the over-supply of sheep in the past two seasons and the indirect effects of the BSE crisis. In some areas, marginal and hill farmers have switched, wholly or in significant proportions, from cattle to sheep over the past three or four years. If there is a long-term solution that goes beyond the minister's meeting tomorrow and the proposals that the Government may introduce, where does Mr MacKintosh think that it lies?"
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  {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Walker: ",
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      "EditedText": "Dr Murray will be aware that last year the Scottish Agricultural College conducted a farming study in Dumfries and Galloway. Based on the figures that were available at that time, July 1998, and on the crisis continuing at that level, job losses in the area were estimated at 1,700 over a three to four-year period. We are now a year down the track, and the crisis is worse than it was then, so we can only speculate as to the accuracy of that information. We do not have evidence of the number of employees who have left the industry, but I can give you anecdotal evidence from my own situation and from that of those around me.Two weeks ago I returned from a sale where I suffered a loss of just short of £10,000 on 350 lambs. I made a man redundant, and he left my employ on Sunday night. Fortunately, he found a job, which starts next week, at a local factory. I have three neighbours who, among them, employ 14 shepherds. They are large-scale sheep farmers and all three of them have been in the business for three generations. One of them has 3,500 ewes and has three shepherds looking after them. He is seriously considering paying off the three men before the end of November, when they will be given their redundancy notices, and continuing to shepherd those sheep on his own. What he can do for those sheep during lambing and at other busy times we can only speculate. We are facing the kind of situation with which New Zealand and Australia have worked for years, where one man looks after upwards of 10,000 to 20,000 sheep. My next-door neighbour's son is in Australia at the moment, and two men—himself and one other—look after 26,000 ewes. That is their job, and virtually all that they do is muster the ewes for various procedures during the year and bury the remains of the dead when the vermin and the predators have finished with them. If that is the situation that people want in Scotland's hills, then farmers will adapt—some farmers will remain to produce the sheepmeat that we require—but I do not for a second believe that that is what this committee or the Scottish Executive wants. I know for a fact that it is not what the farming industry wants. We have been raised to care for and to produce quality animals under standards of welfare that are unmatched in any sheep industry in the world.However, if the current financial crisis continues—and it is not just in the sheep sector, but across all sectors—then farmers will have to take stock of the situation and change their farming practices to adapt to the financial and economic climate that we face. Farmers are a very resilient bunch, and the vast majority of them will survive the coming crisis, but the shape of the rural communities in which they live, the look of the hillsides that they care for, and the kinds of communities that are currently sustained by agriculture and associated industries will change significantly in the next three years.Farming will survive, but it will not be the kind of farming that you would want to continue, for example, in Dumfries and Galloway. The consequences in the more isolated and difficult areas that John represents will be even more catastrophic than that which I described, whereby large farmers are considering paying off members of staff because they cannot justify their employment. How many lambs at £15, how many ewes at £1 or £2, does it take to pay a man's wage of £20,000 a year? Consider that."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
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      "EditedText": "I would not want to go right across that category, Alasdair. There are serious issues in relation to costs. I have had some general discussions with the union about this, but I am particularly concerned about hygiene costs. We seem to apply those rules in a way that tests everything at every stage. From a public health point of view that might well be right, but I would like to investigate an approach to the issue from the point of view of risk management—not in a month, but urgently.If one is looking at one of those establishments, one ought to take account of the quality of the management that runs it and the quality of the systems that are in place there. An assessment must then be made as to whether it is absolutely essential to check every single piece of the transaction in those circumstances. I intend to examine that urgently because it will be a way of removing costs. I have had representations from the union and others in the industry making constructive suggestions relating to that."
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  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578701",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
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      "EditedText": "I would like to examine a specific means by which fewer lambs than previously are exported, and that is live export. I spoke to some sheep farmers yesterday who are expecting veterinary charges in respect of that to increase. They feel that the Government is almost actively discouraging live exports. While it is not actually banning live exports it is discouraging that process."
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ross Finnie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 578702,
      "EditedText": "That is certainly not the Government's intention. Much of this is the result of the additional hygiene costs caused by BSE. Both the previous speakers made it clear that while they do not want to create an issue in public health, there are issues about how we should try to drive down some of the costs that have been imposed. We are still suffering badly from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2202E125P322C578697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Finnie, Ross",
      "ID": 2202,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Rural Affairs (Ross Finnie): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 578697,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that all members of the committee will join me in expressing our thanks to John MacKintosh and Jim Walker for the constructive way in which they have contributed to the discussion of a vexed question. I echo Jim Walker's comment that this requires an overall and different approach.During the short time that I have held my ministerial position, it has become clear to me that I must initiate a different approach if we are to make a constructive contribution to the way in which agriculture is conducted in Scotland. If the Scottish Executive is to make a difference, we must have medium-term and longer-term strategies for what we are trying to do for and with the industry. It is not enough for us to disburse largess from the common agricultural policy; there must be dialogue with the primary producers, the processors, and through to the end of that food chain, engaging those who are most closely connected with the consumers.Stratagems must be in place to ensure that we understand where we are. That point is all the more acute in relation to the problem of the sheepmeat industry. Over the last two years, consumption of sheepmeat worldwide has dropped by 25 per cent. In the UK as a whole, household consumption, per person per week, has dropped from 75 g in 1987 to 56 g in 1997. Yet, in the absence of a strategy—and this is not about pointing fingers at anybody—we in this country produce 400 times the amount of lamb that we require. That is now set against the background, referred to by the two previous speakers, of all the problems associated with the strength of the pound, which has led to the collapse of one of our major exports.Mr Jim Walker's proposition, which is one that I have come to independently, is that there is a need for a different approach by the minister with responsibility for agriculture in the Scottish Executive and that the discussions cannot be simply about directing subsidy and looking at the plight of individual farmers or the primary sector. There has to be a strategy that embraces the whole industry. I would like to move on to that in the medium and longer term; I am sure that, with the committee's help, we can talk further about that.The particular problem that is facing the sheep and lamb industry is clearly of more immediate concern to committee members. The point has been made, not so much about how the problem arose, but about the difficulties that are involved. The problem about money is that last year the sheep sector in Scotland received £116 million through the common agricultural policy, while the latest calculations are that that sector will receive £134 million this year. The real tragedy is that despite that very high level of support, we know—and indeed we have been told by both John MacKintosh and Jim Walker—that in some cases the net incomes of the individual farmers will be near zero. Although it is a monetary problem for the individual, for whom we must have great sympathy, we should not overlook the fact that there are high levels of subsidy in place. Even in the current year, the way in which the sheep annual premium operates means that, because the price has gone down, it is expected that increased premiums will be paid out next year.Members will want to spend more of their time asking me questions, but I want to refer to the steps I have taken in the short term. I have made several visits to sheep farms throughout Scotland, and have had meetings with the NFUS, leaders in the sheep industry—whom I will be meeting again on Friday—the Meat and Livestock Commission and those responsible for the processing and selling ends of the business. No template or plan was handed to me; it would have been nice to have walked through the office and been handed the plan for the agricultural industry.I have taken one or two initiatives—I think that members are aware that I have a meeting with agriculture ministers tomorrow. I would like to share two views on that with you. First, it would be worthwhile to secure a number of short-term measures on a United Kingdom basis. Secondly, if I do not manage that, I have to reflect on what might be required in addition on a Scottish basis. I hope that the committee will understand that I do not believe that to conduct tomorrow's discussions through the airwaves, as some of my ministerial colleagues appear to be doing, is a recipe for success. Therefore, if I am slightly hesitant about my tactical position tomorrow, I hope that you will sympathise. The prospects of achieving success are far better if I conduct the meeting in the spirit in which it was set up.I turn to issues that we have tried to address and to which we have tried to give some support, such as the cull ewe scheme. I have already asked officials to discuss the various ways and means by which the matter might be approached through Brussels. There are severe problems, and I understand the point made by the two previous speakers on the environmental and welfare importance of the scheme. I have already initiated discussions, as issues to do with state aid are involved. Whether those issues can be overcome remains a bit of a puzzle. However, the matter is also firmly on the agenda for tomorrow's meeting, as members would expect. The split ewe carcase problem was highlighted as having done deep damage to our ability to penetrate the French market. We have written to the French authorities about more flexible transport arrangements, which would involve sealing the carcases in individual cases, rather than having to dedicate a whole truckload—as happens at the moment—that has to be delivered to one of the 21 dedicated plants that exist. I am making strenuous efforts to press that point and, while more flexibility would help, I regret to say that I am very much in the hands of the French authorities.I have also written to German, Greek and Italian veterinary authorities to see if they would be prepared to take unsplit ewe carcases. Again, however, while we have initiated that action, I am in the hands of those who are concerned that the spinal cord of sheep and specified risk material should not enter the human food chain.In order to avoid any embarrassment, convener, I checked that the procurement policy of the Scottish Executive was to purchase Scottish lamb. I am relieved to be able to tell you that 100 per cent of the lamb sourced by the Scottish Executive is from Scottish producers. That is a small point, but it might have been somewhat embarrassing had that not been the case.I turn to the question of the markets, particularly the export market. We produce 400 times more than we require and now we discover that the export markets are flat. At a meeting that I convened on 10 August, I instructed—requested—the Scottish Quality Beef and Lamb Association and the Meat and Livestock Commission to re-examine what on earth they were doing about their marketing plans for the current year. I am pleased to say that, as a consequence of that initiative, their marketing plans were brought forward and there is some evidence to suggest that the net result has been an improvement in the fat lamb price across the board.There are other issues that I, too, have been concerned about, such as the supermarket question, although, on preliminary examination, I find that a more complex and complicated question than it appeared to be at first view. Clearly, there are issues in the food chain as to where cost accumulates and where profit is taken. My colleagues Jamie Stone and Tavish Scott are right to be raising those issues. As members are probably aware, we have a food chain working party, which is chaired by the vice-chairman of the National Farmers Union of Scotland, and on which a member of one of the supermarket combines sits. It is a complex issue, but it may well be, sir, a matter that your committee would wish to return to.As I recognise that time is moving on, those are, in brief, some of the initiatives that I have tried to take in order to put into context some of the short-term ameliorative packages which would be of short-term benefit to the industry. I close by re-emphasising the need for a longer-term strategy. Even if we are able to do something about the particular problems of cast ewes, the fact is that within the less favoured area arrangements for Agenda 2000 the current subsidy arrangements for sheep annual premium would themselves militate against any substantial destocking in that sector. Against that I have a particular responsibility, as indeed does this committee, to ensure that such restructuring does not occur in the most vulnerable of our rural communities, and that is a difficult balance to achieve. That is a brief outline of my position, convener, and I would be happy to answer questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 578698,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Ross Finnie. Would anyone like to begin the questioning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 578705,
      "EditedText": "My final question is on the cost of veterinary medicines which, in this country, appear to be higher than elsewhere. Has that been taken up with the Department for Trade and Industry in relation to competition legislation, or is that something that Mr Finnie intends to do?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 578709,
      "EditedText": "I recall from last year that the HLCA aid package was a two-year scheme. The EU had had doubts from the previous year when a one-year package had caused problems, so last year's scheme was for two years and would therefore have to be adhered to this year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17616,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 578711,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to the business improvement scheme. You will be aware—and I hope that you will not mind me pointing out—that a lot of farmers have been completely caught on the hop by the moratorium. They have spent a great deal of money on getting planning permissions and applications together, and I hope that their circumstances will be taken into account if the scheme comes to a premature end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 578727,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17618,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 578741,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Article 1 refers to the objectives; article 2 to means; article 3 to common provisions; article 4 to multi-annual guidance programmes for fishing fleets; and article 5 to the monitoring of those programmes.Does anyone have any comments on those articles?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 578743,
      "EditedText": "Could you adjust the microphone a bit? The sound system in this room is not all that it might be, I fear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 578747,
      "EditedText": "Having suggested that we go through the articles, I am keen that we take this opportunity to comment on them. Does anyone have comments on a specific article in the document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578758",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 578758,
      "EditedText": "It might also be useful to consider the process of how the consultation was carried out. The European Committee considered this before the recess. It might have been helpful for members of this committee to have received a little more advance notice that this was coming up for discussion today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 578763,
      "EditedText": "We will have to shout."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 578764,
      "EditedText": "Is the microphone not working?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578767",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 578767,
      "EditedText": "We will examine scallop fisheries at our next meeting, on 21 September.It is proposed that we ask SERAD to give us a summary of responses received during the consultation process. Lewis Macdonald has also requested that we ask for more information on how that consultation process was carried out. We will ask for a list of those who were consulted. Do any members want to comment further on this matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999",
      "HeadingID": 17619,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ID": 17619,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 578770,
      "EditedText": "An official from the rural affairs department could give us a memorandum on it and, if the committee wishes, explain orally what it is all about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 578778,
      "EditedText": "Item 5 is on the petition on the problems associated with the killing of pigeons by peregrine falcons and sparrowhawks.This is an issue on which I will invite members of the committee to comment, because I know—from my recent attendance at a number of Countryside Alliance meetings—that the issue of raptors inspires more heated debate than others on which one would expect heated debate.Does anyone have any comments on the contents of the petition from the Scottish Homing Union?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 578786,
      "EditedText": "The Public Petitions Committee did not appoint a lead committee. The Official Report of that debate suggests that the Transport and the Environment Committee might become the lead committee, but that is still to be resolved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 578792,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for my late arrival. Are we going to get a chance to comment on that petition?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petition (Homing Pigeons)",
      "HeadingID": 17620,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ID": 17620,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 578793,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We have been asked to comment in advance of the Transport and the Environment Committee meeting tomorrow, but we have decided that it is not appropriate for us to comment at this point. We need to investigate this matter further and should make no further comment until we avail ourselves of the relevant information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 578794,
      "EditedText": "I would now like to move on to item 6 on the agenda, which is a discussion of the future work programme of this committee.I refer members to the document, which has been circulated, that outlines the subjects that we identified as our priority areas.We identified our priority areas at our first meeting. We should now assess them in the light of developments in the intervening period. We need to put them in order of priority and decide which ones we want to progress immediately and which ones we want to defer. We also need to look at how the subjects are defined and decide whether we need to adjust the definitions in any way to cover issues that have recently come to light. Does anybody want to comment on this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 578802,
      "EditedText": "On 5 August we discussed some specific aspects of the beef industry, as well as a wider range of issues connected with the industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 578805,
      "EditedText": "I very much support that. If we are considering only the very short term and a specific issue such as the cull ewe scheme, we can, to some extent, compartmentalise things, but if we are considering the long term, we cannot unravel all the different aspects of the industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 578807,
      "EditedText": "How do we wish to define the item in our list of priorities? Do we define it simply as the Scottish farming industry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 578808,
      "EditedText": "That is a very broad category, but I agree that the different aspects of the industry are indivisible. The overall state and structure of the agriculture industry is a large topic, which we might want to spread out over time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 578809,
      "EditedText": "Given what Richard said about our information being likely to be the summation of a series of individual investigations into specific areas, the Scottish farming industry—if we have identified it as one of our priorities—would remain one of our priorities throughout the four-year period of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 578810,
      "EditedText": "Would you use the term farming as opposed to agriculture?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 578811,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 578812,
      "EditedText": "The term agriculture would cover all aspects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 578813,
      "EditedText": "There is a danger that we become an agriculture committee. We need to watch the language that we use and hold on to the whole of our agenda and all our priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 578820,
      "EditedText": "We must ensure that the information that we gather is appropriate. It must take into consideration all the things that we have been discussing today and their implications. I would be loth to invite one or two folk along and ask them for their views. I would like to initiate—I am not quite sure how to do this—ways of research into the issues that would give local people the opportunity to put forward their ideas. That would give us a bit of reality; otherwise, we could simply do things from an office somewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 578821,
      "EditedText": "Any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 578823,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 578826,
      "EditedText": "Given that the schedule that we are considering will cover a couple of meetings, would it be appropriate to proceed initially by asking for submissions, as was suggested, and then to make that an agenda item for the next meeting? That would give us a rough indication of the submissions that have been received; we could decide how to proceed on that basis. Our specific intention would be to identify those who can give us the evidence that we require at a meeting as soon as possible after 5 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 578827,
      "EditedText": "I concur with that. There are two categories of witnesses. Reflecting on what Irene said, I think that it would be helpful in the first instance to have witnesses from an academic perspective or witnesses from rural communities who have personal experience of these matters. We want to move on to how the people who are spending our money are using it to tackle the problems. That involves Scottish Enterprise, Highlands and Islands Enterprise, Scottish Homes and those in the Scottish Executive who deal with social inclusion, local government and housing. Towards the conclusion of the investigation I would like the ministers to come to the Rural Affairs Committee to tell us what they are doing to tackle poverty, poor housing and poor employment prospects in rural Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 578829,
      "EditedText": "I am anxious that that would extend the lead-in period by two weeks. Do you have any suggestions about how we might proceed more quickly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 578834,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that if the committee agreed to a press release on the subject, that would enable those groups that are not on our database to comment, too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 370.0,
      "ContributionID": 578836,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate to ask for a press release to be drafted? Normal practice is for me to see a press release before it goes out. I suggest that it would be appropriate for Cathy to see it, too. You would like to see it too, Irene?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ContributionID": 578838,
      "EditedText": "It would not be the hardest thing to e-mail it to the entire committee, would it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 578841,
      "EditedText": "Depending on the response, I would hope to be able to progress to defining key areas at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 578844,
      "EditedText": "We will try."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 578847,
      "EditedText": "Agreed. As I said before, we have in front of us a list of the materials that have been supplied to us and those that will be supplied in the near future. I invite committee members to identify any additional information or inquiries that they require on the priority topics.We have identified employment, housing and poverty as priorities that we wish to pursue. We have the shellfish investigation on 21 September. During our discussion, did we decide whether it was appropriate for us to comment on land reform in advance? I think that we were sidetracked. Do we wish to comment on the white paper on land reform at this stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 578855,
      "EditedText": "At this point, we have the opportunity to identify any work papers that we would like to be prepared. Are there any investigations that we would like the Parliament's information centre to carry out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 578858,
      "EditedText": "The reason I ask is that during today's visit to the Scottish Executive rural affairs department, I talked to an official about one of the SPICe papers. He pointed out that, while it was not incorrect, several things that would play a considerable part in any discussion of the subject had been omitted. I wonder whether there should be a back-up to the documents. Perhaps experts could be available to add to them as necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 578860,
      "EditedText": "We have tried to give the committee advice from the Parliament's information centre and from the Executive. At times, differences will appear between papers from those sources. The SPICe papers will be revised, I believe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 578865,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate to trawl for information or statistics on employment, housing and poverty in rural areas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 578866,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Also, as Irene said, some of the information produced by on-going academic studies would be useful to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578872",
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    },
    "Committee": {
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 578872,
      "EditedText": "If you like, to provide us with back-up information when we start to trawl."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 578877,
      "EditedText": "Do we need to commission any further research on that topic?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 578880,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should consider the situation in a month or two, by which time the industry—particularly the slaughtering end—will have had time to work through the options and will know whether it will be able to make progress on the issue in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 578881,
      "EditedText": "I would be interested to know whether progress has been made in that area, as the issue has certainly faded from public interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 578885,
      "EditedText": "We have spoken about land reform proposals. On 21 September, we are to investigate the prohibition on shellfishing, and that has been added to our list of priorities. Members may want SPICe to get involved in investigations in that area. Would it be more appropriate for us to decide that at our meeting on 21 September?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 578888,
      "EditedText": "You jumped over the reference to the fisheries strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 578890,
      "EditedText": "There was a reference to the Scottish Executive rural affairs department's intention to arrange a briefing for MSPs on fishing matters. Is that for all MSPs or only for members of this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 483.0,
      "ContributionID": 578892,
      "EditedText": "The fishing industry remains one of our highest priorities. Would members like any investigations of the industry to be conducted, by SPICe or by this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 491.0,
      "ContributionID": 578896,
      "EditedText": "We have already held an informal meeting of the committee. It would be appropriate to consider an informal meeting when, for example, we are invited to meet the NFU, something we are about to deal with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 495.0,
      "ContributionID": 578898,
      "EditedText": "Yes and no, I think.Moving to the next point in the document, in the case of individual travel on committee business, the trip should be approved by the committee and be designed to obtain information relevant to a current inquiry or one that is planned, and it should represent a more cost-effective way of obtaining the information than any alternative considered; for example, the evidence of a witness.Initially, requests to utilise the travel budget will go before the conveners group. Each request should be dealt with on its own merit rather than applying a system whereby every committee is allowed one meeting outside Edinburgh, for example. It is then up to the bureau to approve the location of a formal committee meeting in terms of rule 12.3.2 of standing orders.Does anyone have any comments to make on the outline procedures?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 501.0,
      "ContributionID": 578901,
      "EditedText": "We should welcome the clear statement that requests are dealt with on their merits, rather than one per committee, and endeavour to make sure of the application of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 503.0,
      "ContributionID": 578902,
      "EditedText": "I notice that there is a reference to one meeting outside Edinburgh per committee, but that the words \"for example\" do not appear. Is there a move—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 505.0,
      "ContributionID": 578903,
      "EditedText": "No—what the conveners group has said is that it is not taking that view; it will not limit committees on an across-the-board basis but will look at each proposal on its merits.We should now deal with pending invitations. We have an invitation from Alison Hay, council leader of Argyll and Bute Council, to discuss issues of concern in that area—it will arrange an island or a mainland invitation; from Alister McNeill of the Scottish Landowners Federation to visit privately run estates in Inverness-shire or Midlothian; from Andy Myles of the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, for a meeting and/or a tour of any operations run by it; from Tom Stove, convener of Shetland Islands Council, to discuss issues of local concern; from Iain Smart of Portree community council to discuss local issues in Skye and Lochalsh; and from Jeff Maxwell of the Macaulay Land Use Research Institute to discuss issues of concern to the committee and how research on land use might assist in resolving such issues. Another invitation, which has been wrongly listed as not subject to travel limitations, is from SRG Young of Dunecht Estates to visit the estate.  Those invitations are relevant to on-going investigations of the committee, but it would be inappropriate to take advantage of the invitations without having an agenda to pursue. We should take the invitations seriously, but leave them until the appropriate time. I suggest that I write on behalf of the committee to thank the individuals and organisations for their invitations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 514.0,
      "ContributionID": 578907,
      "EditedText": "And the north-east—we could have a good argument about this. It is important that everybody feels included by the committee. Where necessary, I will be happy to argue that the committee be funded to travel anywhere in Scotland.We should be able to deal with a limited number of contacts and invitations without funding. The Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency has invited us to visit its vessel when it is in Leith—we received that invitation in person during our visit to Pentland House. Jim Walker of the NFU has invited us to meet him and his office-bearers at his headquarters in Ingliston. Before he left this afternoon, I asked him whether an evening visit, which would allow us to fit it into the parliamentary week, would be suitable, and he said that that would be okay. Alasdair Fairbairn of the Sea Fish Industry Authority has offered to brief the committee on the role of his organisation—he has invited us visit his offices, but I am sure that it would be possible for him to visit us.A letter got lost on a fax machine somewhere between me and Richard Davies. It is from the pig convener of the NFU, inviting us to visit pig farms in the Edinburgh area. It will be circulated to committee members as soon as possible. The pig industry is suffering as much as any in the Scottish agricultural sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 518.0,
      "ContributionID": 578909,
      "EditedText": "Here we are. That was a neat move by the fax machine. The letter was sent to me and was faxed on to the clerking team. It is from P M Loggie, policy manager for the NFU, and is an invitation to visit pig units in the Edinburgh area. I have had further phone communication about that, and the people involved understand that the committee is under pressure of time. They would be grateful for the opportunity to come here and make presentations to us if that were considered more appropriate. I move on to the invitations that we can do something about. Do we have a date for the visit to the fisheries protection vessel when it is in Leith?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 520.0,
      "ContributionID": 578910,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 524.0,
      "ContributionID": 578912,
      "EditedText": "We have attempted before to organise a date for a meeting with Jim Walker and the office-bearers of the NFU, and failed to do so. We now have an open invitation, so that if we can arrange a date, they will try to fit in with it. Does the committee want to arrange a date in the current parliamentary year? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 526.0,
      "ContributionID": 578913,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate to arrange an evening that can be fitted in with parliamentary business? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 528.0,
      "ContributionID": 578914,
      "EditedText": "I do not know what members' domestic arrangements are. Would a Tuesday or a Wednesday evening be preferred? There are bids for Tuesdays and Wednesdays."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 532.0,
      "ContributionID": 578916,
      "EditedText": "There is a definite preference for Wednesday evening. We will see whether that can be arranged. Members of the Sea Fish Industry Authority wish to brief the committee on the authority's role and work. Do we want to visit them, or would the committee prefer someone to come to the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 534.0,
      "ContributionID": 578917,
      "EditedText": "I have a query about Jim Walker and the NFU, and the same query about this. If it is useful for us to see them in situ, and there is a real reason for doing that, that is fine, as long as the clerk is satisfied that there is a good reason for going there and that we will learn things there that we would not learn here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9544129+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 536.0,
      "ContributionID": 578918,
      "EditedText": "Should we make contact with Alasdair Fairbairn to agree an appropriate date and to ask whether he would prefer to come here or for us to go to him? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 538.0,
      "ContributionID": 578919,
      "EditedText": "The letter from the pig farmers and the subsequent discussion have resulted in them volunteering to come and make a presentation. Shall we make further contact with them to establish a suitable date? The person who spoke to me today said, \"Any time, any place.\" Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9700301+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 578804,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should define it as the farming industry. As has been said, the whole industry is intertwined: when one part goes down, that has knock-on effects on the others. If we are going to consider this strategically, we will have to take everything together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.0585835+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 578762,
      "EditedText": "I cannot hear what Mr Munro is saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7613363+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Sheep Industry",
      "HeadingID": 17616,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17616,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 578715,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to examine case studies from Europe and the wider world so that we can consider the circumstances of farmers elsewhere.Will the minister respond to Jim Walker's sensible suggestion of setting up a task force to implement an action plan, instead of setting up committees year after year?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:06.0646609+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 578742,
      "EditedText": "In recent years, European funding has been extremely important to fishing communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:06.0646609+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 578744,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that everyone on the committee is aware that in recent years European funding has been vital for our fishing communities. PESCA funding, for example, has initiated many good things in the industry. Local authorities and fishing organisations around the country have made submissions on the issue, because they want many of the effective initiatives to continue, albeit in a different form, so as to maintain momentum and continuity.Given that the fishing organisations and local authorities have made submissions and that this is a complex area, I suggest that we get a synopsis of those submissions from the rural affairs department. If we were able to see such a synopsis, it would put us in a better position to make recommendations to the department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:06.0646609+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 578746,
      "EditedText": "Yes, because it is a draft regulation, not a final regulation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:06.0646609+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 578750,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:06.0646609+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 578756,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but it would be useful to see a synopsis of the submissions received from local authorities and other organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries Sector",
      "HeadingID": 17618,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ID": 17618,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 578759,
      "EditedText": "Does anything prevent us from making recommendations to the rural affairs department once we have seen the synopsis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 578806,
      "EditedText": "Ultimately, we need to have information on the sheep industry. We can treat each issue as it arises and we can still have our short investigations—such as the one that we are having today—which will form part of our overall look at farming in Scotland. When other issues arise in the future, they should be considered as part of our overall strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 578840,
      "EditedText": "I support that way forward. I would, however, like an idea of how we are going to proceed with an investigation of that size. It would make sense to put out the letter seeking submissions and issue a press release; we would choose a few of the key submissions in the main areas for investigation and then produce a report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 578842,
      "EditedText": "Time scale is important, too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:08.3165875+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3221
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17621,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ID": 17621,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 578870,
      "EditedText": "When we have read the submissions, we will know what issues to highlight and what information to send for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:12.113384+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C495306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Debating Time ",
      "HeadingID": 13428,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13428,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 495306,
      "EditedText": "We are not asking the Conservative party or the SNP to give up any of their share of parliamentary half-days. We acknowledge that they have a minimum amount of time. We feel that Parliament might find time for a day and a half—or some allocation of time—for us. This is an important principle. The five-member group qualification for a half-day is artificial and it works against the principle of the Scottish Parliament, which is to encourage individuals and smaller parties to stand and gain seats. We plead that the committee give the proposal careful consideration, as at the moment we do not get parliamentary half-days and have no prospect of getting one over the next four years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Debating Time ",
      "HeadingID": 13428,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13428,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 495307,
      "EditedText": "The appropriate response is to ask members of the Procedures Committee team to produce a paper on that for consideration at a subsequent meeting. That will give them the opportunity to examine the thinking in the consultative steering group report that led to the rule setting a minimum of five members that is laid down in the standing orders. It will also give them an opportunity to consult the Parliamentary Bureau on its views, as it has to timetable the Parliament's business. The paper that they produce will enable us to address the issue properly at a subsequent meeting. Are all members happy with that arrangement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 495314,
      "EditedText": "I would like the status quo to be option 3. The paper does not give it any credence, yet it is an option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 495323,
      "EditedText": "Issue 9, about better notification of which motions have been selected, is also under further examination."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 495327,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We should perhaps keep it under review."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 495332,
      "EditedText": "Issue 16 is significant. It has been flagged up—not least by Donald Gorrie, whose paper is further down the agenda—and discussed in other arenas. We still do not know how time for parliamentary or committee business should be expanded. If the business managers or the Parliament wish to expand time available for meeting, the standing orders must make that possible. We should dissociate the two issues. We should consider the principle of moving the hours of debate. It is not for us to say when Parliament will meet. It is for us to consider allowing that to happen if the Parliament decides, in the light of experience during the winter, that it has to make more time available for committees or meetings of the Parliament. That is the direction in which the clerks should be pointing us. It is not strictly our business to say when Parliament will meet, but our role will be to make further changes possible. We recognise that the business managers will probably consider working hours to be a moving target in the months ahead."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 495334,
      "EditedText": "Later we will consider a suggested further trawl of members' opinions; perhaps we should ask for their opinions on the principle of moving meetings and on allowing committees to sit simultaneously with the Parliament. The latter would be a fairly important departure from one of the central objectives of the consultative steering group and would involve issues that we ought to explore before we step in that direction. It would be appropriate to flag up to all members the fact that that is under consideration and that an early decision could be taken. Members might wish to have an input to the decision and get a debate going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 495338,
      "EditedText": "I take Michael's point. We should await the outcome of the bureau's discussions before we discuss consulting individual members. Once people have heard what the bureau has to say, they will be in a better position to make informed decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 495340,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I understand that the paper will be with the bureau at its next meeting and will be responded to fairly quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 495341,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the issue for us is whether the standing orders are flexible enough to allow us to meet at almost any time. Tom McCabe's paper makes a valid point in that we cannot have a meeting of the Parliament at the same time as committee meetings, which is a restriction on our time. As I understand it, we can meet at almost any time of the day or night, but there are certain things that we cannot do. That is the issue on which we should take evidence.The exact meeting hours are an issue on which the bureau should consult widely in the Parliament to discover what best suits the working practices of all members and staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 495343,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. That takes us to issue 19, the vexed question of how we stop for lunch. This issue is included against the day when Lord James is not present in the chamber immediately before lunchtime and there is no one to move the motion from the floor, according to the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 495346,
      "EditedText": "There appears to be a little confusion. The business motion states clearly that the Parliament will meet until a certain time and then meet again in the afternoon. I have never quite worked out why we have to move a motion, given that the business motion says that we will adjourn for lunch. Where did the requirement to move a motion come from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 495354,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would have to strike them all down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 495355,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is a fair point. We might be able to resolve the lunchtime question quite easily, but other issues are involved.That takes us to issues 23 and 24. Question time has been the subject of much concern, from members and in the media. It is clear that everyone who is involved in the process is anxious to loosen it up and make it more interesting. The issue paper includes the option of a First Minister's question time. We have discussed that option informally with Mr McCabe, and Mr Dewar wrote a letter on the subject to the Presiding Officer earlier in the summer. The issue is moving on and is a matter of negotiation and agreement; we will be able to change the standing orders to reflect what arises from the discussion over the next couple of weeks. The paper deals with the discussions that are under way and we do not consider it to be a problematic issue.The paper does not address the request for questions to specific ministers and I have asked for more thought to be given to that for the next meeting. It remains a difficulty that in the first half- hour of questions we have a peppering of questions to a range of ministers rather than an opportunity to get a good questioning session under way. It may be that we do not require that opportunity, because the committees will be able to undertake such questioning, but it raises the point of how members who do not sit on committees that are attached to ministers can properly raise questions with ministers. On issue 24, there are points that require a bit more thought and the presentation of further options. Are there any other thoughts on the paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 495356,
      "EditedText": "I raised the issue on behalf of the leader of the SNP, and I would like that fact to be noted in the paragraph headed \"raised by\". The key players are people who have opinions, and they might like to give evidence on the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 495358,
      "EditedText": "That takes us on to issue 25, which is on a small point that seems to be answered in the paper. Are we happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 495361,
      "EditedText": "That issue needs to be addressed during the debate. There is a possibility, which has been discussed in a number of other places, of certification of questions whereby the clerks would have to accept that a question has priority just as they have to accept the terms of the question.The issue of the particular bottleneck during the recess is missing from the paper and needs to be addressed. There have been complaints from the Executive that, because of civil servants' holidays and so on, it is difficult to meet the two-week time scale. An idea that has been aired in discussion and that might be included in the paper is that there should be a slightly longer period—say, three weeks—during the recess, but that there would be an opportunity for urgent questions to be answered within a much shorter period. That will also require certification. We should include those issues in the paper and we should take evidence on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 495362,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. I am anxious not to rush into a judgment on the procession of questions during our first recess. We all understand that that might make things different. We must see how things go in the long run; however, we must recognise that there was a burden of work imposed by members during the summer and that we must deal with that.I would like to expand the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 495367,
      "EditedText": "Changed numbers on the bulletin can become a nightmare, especially at my age."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 495368,
      "EditedText": "Will we drop this issue? All right.We are invited to continue investigating issue 29—simplification of the dates on which Parliament and the office of the clerk are open—until parliamentary officials have given us the information mentioned in the paper.Issue 30 is on emergency bills. When the Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill has been through Parliament in a few days, we will know better what to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 495369,
      "EditedText": "Because we have had to suspend standing orders to deal with this emergency bill, there is now some knowledge about what does and does not work technically in relation to the standing orders. This paper is very helpful on that.It is not a matter of opinion, but one of fact that the standing orders are deficient in this regard. I do not think that it is necessary to take much evidence on the issue. Might it not be possible, therefore, to have alterations to the standing orders drafted now, and for us to see those as part of our final consideration?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 495370,
      "EditedText": "Do any other members have thoughts on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 495374,
      "EditedText": "Are we, then, simply asking for redrafts to be shown to us, rather than the committee taking detailed evidence? It is a complicated matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 495375,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee feel that a redraft would allow full consideration of all the points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 495378,
      "EditedText": "The paper on members' bills says at the end of page 2 and at the start of page 3 that\"no proceedings on the Bill, or the amendment, may be taken at any Stage after Stage 1 unless the Parliament has by resolution agreed the expenditure.\"Does that mean that a member's bill that has financial implications could go to stage 1, but would thereafter stop automatically? Would it go to stage 1, or would it just be stopped before it reaches that stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 495380,
      "EditedText": "An emergency bill must be certified as such by the Parliament or by the Presiding Officer before it enters the legislative process. It does not, however, look as if a member's bill must be certified as such before it enters the process, even although it cannot succeed if it has financial implications. Am I making that clear? There seems to be some difficulty in that matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 495382,
      "EditedText": "Certification is required for an emergency bill. If a member's bill goes further than the motion that was used to introduce it, it cannot then be introduced. There is a way in which an issue cannot be ventilated by means of a bill, but can be ventilated by means of going to stage 1, even although that bill cannot succeed. Is there an issue relating to members' bills in that that we should think about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 495383,
      "EditedText": "The procedure is not different. The emergency bill has gone through stage 1. The financial resolution comes before stage 2. The procedure is the same in terms of when the financial resolution comes into the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 495385,
      "EditedText": "It is by definition an Executive bill and the Executive is likely to move the relevant financial resolution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 495390,
      "EditedText": "We should perhaps consider that there is a danger that members' bills might become gesture bills in terms of parliamentary time. Members might see that a bill has financial implications, but try to get it to stage 1 anyway. That is an issue that we should discuss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 495392,
      "EditedText": "That question is on my mind. We will reflect more on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 495393,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to the end of the annexes and to the end of the item on the agenda on priority issues. Well done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 495395,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to paper PR/99/3/3, which is on interventions. There was a bit of to-ing and fro-ing about interventions just before the recess. It appears to me, even from the limited amount of business last week, that this issue is beginning to settle down a wee bit. It seems to be understood that interventions are possible during closing speeches, but that the Presiding Officer is attempting to protect all members—not only concluding speakers—from interventions when they are clearly winding up their speeches.I think that that is sensible practice, but not something that we would necessarily want written into the standing orders. I thought that things seemed to be working better last week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 495397,
      "EditedText": "I do not agree with Mike. Some of the gesture politics that have gone on the chamber show that people are intervening deliberately to upset summing up. Summing up is a crucial part of any debate and must therefore be protected by the system. It was handled better last week, but there is difficulty with whether a speaker is in the last minute of a speech or not. Members never know because they do not have the speech in front of them and so do not know at what stage of the speech the speaker is. I would not like, as Michael suggests, to throw the baby out with the bath water. We need recognition that summing up is different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 495398,
      "EditedText": "Surely that protection is within the speaker. The entirety of what the speaker is trying to put over can be judged—its beginning, its middle and its end. Why should people be protected? I do not understand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 495399,
      "EditedText": "They should because speakers say that they are in their summing up and that they do not want interventions, but members continually try to intervene."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 495408,
      "EditedText": "I think that you are right, convener; things have been going better. If we leave it, as Gil says, to members to have the courtesy not to intervene when a speaker has said that they are summing up and are in the last minute of their speech, we must then prevent people abusing the system by raising points of order. There are a lot of people in the chamber who do not know the difference between a point of order and an intervention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 495411,
      "EditedText": "You and I know that politics is about trying to get one's point across."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 495413,
      "EditedText": "One can do both with charm and eloquence, as both you and I do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 495416,
      "EditedText": "There has been a lack of courtesy on occasion. That is part of the interplay of political life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "House of Commons Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13434,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ID": 13434,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 495431,
      "EditedText": "Will we set a date for such a meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Notes for Information",
      "HeadingID": 13437,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ID": 13437,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 495438,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 10:26."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 7 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13427,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13427,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 495302,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:30"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 7 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 13427,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13427,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Murray Tosh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 495303,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the third meeting of the Procedures Committee. We have an apology for absence from Donald Gorrie, who is engaged in other business.I introduce Barry Winetrobe, who has produced a couple of papers that are further down the agenda. He will deal with any questions on them. Members know everybody else, except the vast array of people sitting around the wall, who outnumber members of the committee by about three to one. It is nice that our work attracts such interest. With the committee's agreement, I will vary the order of business. We have had a paper from Robin Harper, Tommy Sheridan and Dennis Canavan. I invited one of the three to come this morning. It will be courteous to invite Robin to speak briefly about his paper and let him leave when we have dispatched that piece of business. If he annoys us, we will make him sit through the whole three hours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Debating Time ",
      "HeadingID": 13428,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13428,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 495305,
      "EditedText": "Take it for granted that members have read it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C495309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Debating Time ",
      "HeadingID": 13428,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13428,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 495309,
      "EditedText": "I should be happy for that to be amended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Debating Time ",
      "HeadingID": 13428,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13428,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 495311,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Robin. Robin will have finished his correspondence by lunchtime, when we will still be sitting here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 495312,
      "EditedText": "The officers have done a lot of work during the summer. Other aspects of matters that were raised arose during the summer and have been taken into consideration where possible. There is an understanding that matters will continue to arise. There is time for us to examine them without expanding the remit of the paper too much.  We have a reasonably strict timetable to meet, as we intend to discuss the matter today and take evidence in a fortnight—we expect that the party business managers will wish to give evidence. That will allow us—having explored the issues—to meet a fortnight after that to take decisions and draw up a paper, which will go to Parliament. That will have to be after the recess, given the periods of notification that now obtain. We aim to get the paper to Parliament before the end of October, so that we are able to adopt the interim standing orders incorporating the amendments that result from the process.This morning we will go over the issues, make additional points and agree that we take evidence at the next meeting and take decisions at the meeting after that. We can ask an officer to speak on each issue if members wish, but I am inclined to take it as read that we understand the issues and will discuss points that are raised.Issues 1 and 2 are about decision time. The two options—in addition to the status quo—are a half-day decision time and decisions at the end of each debate. Are members happy that those are the options that we will consider?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 495316,
      "EditedText": "We should not spend an enormous amount of time on that. It is a technical matter connected with the electronic voting system, which many of us are beginning to regret is used in the Parliament. It should be an easy matter to resolve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 495317,
      "EditedText": "The development of the electronic voting system to give members feedback will remove the uncertainties that caused the incident."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 495319,
      "EditedText": "I take that specific point. Generally, issues arise in our meetings that must go to the bureau, the corporate body and the conveners' meetings. Our work overlaps substantially with that of those other groups; the only way to proceed is to exchange views and pass on information and recommendations. We must not be too territorial, and we should encourage other bodies not to be too territorial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 495321,
      "EditedText": "There is no problem in principle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith (North-East Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 495325,
      "EditedText": "The situation will sort itself out, because as we get into the normal business of the Parliament, business will be clearer in advance and there will not be the same problems about being clear as to what is coming up the following week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 495328,
      "EditedText": "A similar point arises on issues 10, 13 and 20 to 22. They deal with notification and publication of lists of speakers, which are being discussed by the bureau. It has been requested that we make recommendations to the bureau. We should keep that in our remit so that we make specific recommendations.Issue 11 is about meetings elsewhere. The conveners group is discussing that and we should leave it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 495329,
      "EditedText": "The matter is also being discussed by the bureau and by the corporate body. It relates to implementing established practice, so I think that the clerks should find a legal solution. This is not a matter for the Procedures Committee as it requires a legal solution. That solution might be for the corporate body to devolve authority over parts of its budget to the bureau on specified occasions for this purpose."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 495330,
      "EditedText": "The conveners group is examining the way in which the matter should be handled, so it is valid for it to be involved in the discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 495331,
      "EditedText": "We will drop that issue and remit it in both directions.Issues 12, 14 and 15 are about the lack of adequate notice of motions and amendments. That is being dealt with elsewhere. We should consider what is being done and make recommendations and representations as appropriate. Is everybody happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 495333,
      "EditedText": "A paper on meeting times for the Parliament is being sent by Tom McCabe to the Presiding Officer, for the attention of the bureau. That paper suggests that there ought to be a meeting of the Parliament on Wednesday mornings and that committees should take place on Monday afternoons, as the standing orders allow.The Procedures Committee might have to address the paper's implication that there should be a change to the rule that forbids committees meeting at the same time as the Parliament. Such a change would allow a limited number of committees to meet in conjunction with the Wednesday morning meeting of the Parliament. If the bureau agrees that that is the way forward, that issue will have to come back to the committee. The Executive is anxious to ensure that additional plenary time is available and is asking the bureau to consider an additional meeting of the Parliament each week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 495335,
      "EditedText": "There certainly has to be a debate; we have to hear members' opinions. The paper to the bureau, which we have seen just this morning, raises many issues. Meeting on Wednesday mornings is not the only solution; it would be possible to extend Wednesday and Thursday meetings of the Parliament by an hour or an hour and a half. That would have a cost implication but would be attractive to some members. Such extended meetings would not have an enormous impact on people, but would perhaps be more effective in terms of the use of people's time. We should narrow our consideration to what the standing orders permit. There is a wider debate about appropriate hours to be had among members, staff and others in the Parliament.At the same time, there has not been an enormous pressure on parliamentary business in meetings of the Parliament so far. Given the anodyne motions that we have been asked to consider during the past week, one would have thought that the Executive might have found something more constructive to talk about. I am a little cynical about the way in which the Executive is approaching the matter, but I will wait to find out whether the bureau discussion reassures me at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 495337,
      "EditedText": "Not yet, but I assure the convener that it will be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 495339,
      "EditedText": "If we are to get members' views within our timetable, we will have to be reasonably prompt. I assume that what you are saying, Janis, is that we want opinions on the bureau's paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 495342,
      "EditedText": "I am persuaded by the discussion that it is for the bureau to carry out that consultation. Our role is not to lead but to respond to what the bureau, after consultation, wishes to do and to ensure that the standing orders reflect the decision that is reached by the parliamentary body as a whole.I take it that the discussion on issue 16 wraps up Donald Gorrie's paper as well, although if Donald wishes to return to that at a subsequent meeting—as I am sure he will—we will give him the right to do so.Issue 17 tries to clear up the confusion about ministerial statements and questions. The paper overlaps with the bureau's consideration and with notices that have appeared in the business bulletin. We have identified two ways in which to proceed. One is simply to have ministerial statements followed by questions; the second is to have ministerial statements followed by questions and debate. We chatted about that yesterday before the meeting and thought that we might also flag up the possibility of ministerial statements being followed by questions and then an interval before the debate.One of the papers that we received during the summer suggested that the debate should be separated from the questions by a period of time, to allow for reflection and research. That could be a third option—I do not know what its implications are, but we should consider it as a further possibility. Again, we are considering matters that are not just for us, but on which we might have to define the standing orders.Issue 18 concerns the summing-up of debates. Having cleared it with Tom McCabe that I was free to do so, I tabled a letter that he sent to me during the recess to address the issue, which was raised previously by Michael Russell. I do not want to discuss that this morning; I simply want to make the letter available to members. The question is straightforward: should the Opposition party that moves the motion sum up the debate or should the Executive, in all circumstances, sum up the debate? Mike made his position known at an earlier meeting and Tom has given us a paper. The way for us to proceed is to take any evidence that members wish to give at the next meeting. At the meeting after that, we would discuss and decide on the recommendation, if any, that the committee would make. Members' positions are well enough known and I do not think that anyone needs to add to them this morning. Is that okay?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 495344,
      "EditedText": "So we would not have lunch?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 495347,
      "EditedText": "The standing orders have been interpreted such that the Presiding Officer has not understood him or herself to have the power automatically to implement the terms of the business motion. A degree of clarification might be sufficient to resolve the matter, but the analysis of the issue is weighty and involved—I recommend that all insomniacs take it to bed with them every night."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 495349,
      "EditedText": "Will the clerk address the specific point about the lunch break, but have an eye to the broader implications?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 495352,
      "EditedText": "That does not answer the second point about what would happen if we all dried up. That would be remarkable and I do not think that it would ever happen; nevertheless it is possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 495359,
      "EditedText": "Issue 26 is more important. Members might feel that they have asked questions that require fairly speedy answers, yet there is no effective procedure in place. It has been suggested that we consider a priority classification system, including implementation criteria, for written questions.Such a classification system is difficult to imagine in precise terms, although in operational terms it might be relatively straightforward, in that we tend to know what is urgent and what is not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 495364,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to issue 27, which is whether there can be a shorter period of notice for oral questions. Is not this a matter of balance and judgment? The paper states the difficulties and the issues. People can be invited to give evidence on that and we will take it from there. It is quite straightforward.Issue 28 is about oral questions that have been withdrawn, but which still appear in the business bulletin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 495365,
      "EditedText": "This is clearly a small technical matter. I think the current practice of the bulletin is correct because it becomes confusing if numbers are missed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 495371,
      "EditedText": "We all acknowledge that there are deficiencies in the current system and that the passage of the current emergency bill shows that. It will take more than one bill to illustrate all the deficiencies and we cannot decide everything that we must examine from the passage of one bill. We must monitor the current emergency bill. There are changes that we must make."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 495373,
      "EditedText": "The issue here is about the taking of the emergency bill over two meetings of the Parliament rather than its being dealt with in a single day, as was envisaged. We may have to examine the possibility of providing different processes for different situations. It is not clear in my mind why ministers wanted the Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill dealt with over two meetings of Parliament. It may be that there are aspects of the management of that procedure that we would want to tease out. We will leave that paper.We understand, Janis, that the changes that we make to the standing orders are not in any sense final or definitive. Procedures and standing orders will go on evolving in the light of experience for all time. Your point that one case does not necessarily make law is well made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 495376,
      "EditedText": "I think that discussion of the redraft will determine whether we need further discussion, so we should go for a redraft and then see what comes out of that process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 495377,
      "EditedText": "Are we all happy with that? All right.We thought that the issue of members' bills was one on which we should provide information. There has been some discussion of procedure in relation to such bills because of the interest that there is in the members' bills that are coming before Parliament. The paper is largely for information, and I do not think that there are any other issues that members' bills give rise to. The points at the end of the paper have been flagged up as practical difficulties that are beyond the scope of standing orders to deal with.I do not know if any further discussion is necessary on members' bills unless, having read the paper, members feel that there are standing orders issues that they would like to explore."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 495379,
      "EditedText": "It seems to be envisaged that the Executive could allow a bill to wither on the vine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 495388,
      "EditedText": "So, if it is not thus certified, it will go no further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 495391,
      "EditedText": "The clerks are muttering to me that last week we had a look at what papers must be lodged with a bill, and evidence must be provided of the financial arrangements and implications of a bill as part of that.We should look at the issue that Michael Russell has raised and we should express more clearly whether there is a procedural implication in that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 495396,
      "EditedText": "I disagree entirely. There is no normal precedent for protecting members during the last minutes of speeches. Members can refuse to take interventions. Members can effectively cut off interventions if they are in their peroration.It pains me to say it, but Phil Gallie made a very reasonable point last week. He and Rhona Brankin both intervened but the Presiding Officer refused to allow the interventions, saying that the minister was in the last minute of a speech, which then went on for another two and a half minutes. The clock is not being observed as had been assumed it would be and the protection has been applied to ministers—it could be applied to others, although it happened to be to ministers that time—for much longer than the Presiding Officer intended.There should be no such convention and members should be entitled to take or to refuse interventions at any stage during a speech. That is a normal part of the cut and thrust of debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 495402,
      "EditedText": "I am speaking for some of your colleagues as well as for some of mine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 495403,
      "EditedText": "Let us not wrangle about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 495404,
      "EditedText": "Come on, let's. Laughter"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 495405,
      "EditedText": "One should be able to take an intervention at any time. A member should be allowed to offer that at any time. However, a member saying that he or she will take no further interventions because they are summing up matters less than the issue about whether they will speak for a further one or two minutes. If the member has signalled that he or she is summing up, it is no longer appropriate that interventions be made—at any stage or from any member.If it is felt that interjections are being bawled out at the close of a speech it is for the Presiding Officer to then come in with tackety boots. It is a matter about which members should learn and in which the Presiding Officer should exercise his authority. Concluding speakers should not deliberately make a ten-minute summation without taking interventions. We must feel our way through this. What matters—and I feel strongly about this—is that we do not accept the previous ruling that members should not intervene in a concluding speech. That is wrong. People are entitled to intervene in a concluding speech and ministers, or whoever is making the speech, should be allowed to take interventions. We have got away from that.Beyond that, I do not know whether we want to have a rule on interventions in standing orders. It would be very artificial to have people pinging bells or sounding buzzers to tell members that they have passed the point at which they can intervene."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 495412,
      "EditedText": "But Gil talked about using common courtesy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 495414,
      "EditedText": "Please speak through the convener.Andy, you said that you disagreed. Do you wish us to make some formal statement in standing orders to regulate this?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 495417,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "The Chair (Form of Address)",
      "HeadingID": 13432,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ID": 13432,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 495419,
      "EditedText": "I took the opportunity of speaking about forms of address to Sir David Steel, who wrote to me in the summer on the matter, because he was receiving correspondence and representations on it. The Presiding Officer and deputies feel that we should stick with the present titles, and that, if we do not want to say \"Presiding Officer\", we should say \"Sir David\", \"Mr Reid\", or \"Ms Ferguson\", and should not insert any other convenient title. They are anxious to get away from members saying \"Madam Deputy Presiding Officer\", which is a cumbersome form of address; you will see from the representations that that is exactly what George Reid has said. Ms Ferguson is happy to be addressed as \"Presiding Officer\"—presumably leaving out \"Deputy\"—and is willing to be identified as \"Speaker\". It is understandable that a number of members use the term Speaker as it is used in many Parliaments. It is appropriate that we should recommend what title should be used. Thereafter the Presiding Officer, through nudges and gentle reminders rather than by being too heavy, will wish to get members to use the proper term. We cannot have a proliferation of titles.Do members have any views on the matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "The Chair (Form of Address)",
      "HeadingID": 13432,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ID": 13432,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 495422,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. I do not see the need to use the term Deputy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders Comparators",
      "HeadingID": 13433,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ID": 13433,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 495427,
      "EditedText": "Are we all agreed on that? All right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "House of Commons Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13434,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ID": 13434,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 495428,
      "EditedText": "We have an invitation to meet with the Westminster Procedure Committee. Again, we have a paper from Barry. In this paper, Barry has flagged up issues that we might explore with that committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "House of Commons Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13434,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ID": 13434,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 495430,
      "EditedText": "I do beg your pardon. We will get that sorted.We will not go through this in any detail now. It is a very full paper, which indicates the sort of matters that we might profitably discuss with the House of Commons Procedure Committee and the Modernisation of the House of Commons Committee, which appear to overlap to a degree. The paper is here for noting this morning. When they have looked at it in greater detail, members will have the opportunity to flag up other issues that they might wish to explore. I am sure that our meeting with the House of Commons committees will not be the last one that we will have.Given that you, Mike, have not had the opportunity to read the paper, we will put this on the agenda for the next meeting, in case there are issues that you would like to raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "House of Commons Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13434,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ID": 13434,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 495432,
      "EditedText": "The next meeting will be in a fortnight."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "House of Commons Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13434,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ID": 13434,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 495433,
      "EditedText": "I mean the date for a meeting with the House of Commons committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Bureau Relationship",
      "HeadingID": 13435,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 13435,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 495435,
      "EditedText": "Paper PR/99/3/7 is a briefing from the clerks on the respective roles of the Procedures Committee and the Parliamentary Bureau. It was requested at the first meeting and is just for your information. Do members wish to raise any points about it? No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Work",
      "HeadingID": 13436,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ID": 13436,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 495436,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to PR/99/3/8, which is a note of some issues that have been forwarded to us from other areas, and which we will discuss soon. The matter of the participation of non-MSPs in the work of committees is back with the conveners. We have a paper by Elizabeth Watson that says that there is not a lot we can do, as involving non-MSPS in committee work on a standing basis would require a change to the Scotland Act 1998. Committees should therefore use their right to draw in advisers and to invite people to take part in discussions without formally co-opting them to committees. I do not recommend that we take that matter further. We will receive reports on the other matters in due course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Notes for Information",
      "HeadingID": 13437,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ID": 13437,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 495437,
      "EditedText": "We have received a letter from the Federation of Small Businesses, a copy of which is attached to paper PR/99/3/9 for your information.We paid a courtesy call to the president of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities a couple of weeks ago, at his invitation, to discuss a number of matters. The meeting showed COSLA's desire to work with all committees of the Parliament. It was a very constructive and agreeable meeting; if we need to meet them again, we will do so.We have discussed PR/99/3/10 already. There is no provision on the agenda for any other matters to be raised, but I will take any matters that members may wish to give notice of for discussion at the next meeting. As there are none, I declare this meeting closed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C495304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Debating Time ",
      "HeadingID": 13428,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13428,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 495304,
      "EditedText": "Will I read through the paper?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Debating Time ",
      "HeadingID": 13428,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13428,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 495308,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that. I have spoken to Robin, Dennis Canavan and a representative on earth of Tommy Sheridan—not to the great man himself—about the matter.We must be careful about one of the points in the paper. A distinction should be drawn between the parties in the Parliament—the Green party and the Scottish Socialist party—and the independents. We do not want to allocate half-days to members by name, so we must allocate time to parties and any independents in the Parliament. The paper indicates that Dennis Canavan might get a half-day because he is Dennis Canavan. We have to be clear about what we are asking the clerks to do in drawing up a paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Debating Time ",
      "HeadingID": 13428,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13428,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 495310,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy to proceed on that basis?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 495313,
      "EditedText": "I anticipate that the Executive will be anxious not to have a scattering of decisions throughout the day because of the need to manage ministerial time, so that option might not be realistic. We should examine the merits of having a morning vote on morning debates. Evidence will have to be sought on practical matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 495315,
      "EditedText": "It is understood that we do not need to change the status quo if we feel that that is the best way to continue.Issues 3 and 4 deal with retaking a division and with points of order during divisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 495318,
      "EditedText": "Is there a role for the committee—without making a decision—to make a recommendation to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body that it should consider carefully the specification for the voting system at the Holyrood building? That will ensure that the points that we make and members' feelings are reflected to the corporate body as the team responsible for the new building. We must avoid a repeat of the problems that we have had with this voting system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 495320,
      "EditedText": "In the same way as the bureau sends matters to the Procedures Committee, we should develop a procedure whereby we pass issues to others. This is one issue that we should consider passing to the corporate body. The clerk might advise us on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 495322,
      "EditedText": "The bureau is working on issues 6, 7 and 8, which deal with the electronic voting system, so we will move on unless anyone has a comment to make.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 495324,
      "EditedText": "The paper indicates that that is not about the standing orders; it concerns management of business and is for the bureau. It might be wiser to make representations to the bureau. The bulletin has not remained static—it has changed and developed. The bureau is conscious that it might have to be further refined. We should not spend much time on the issue as the bureau is already working on it. We should just keep an eye on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 495326,
      "EditedText": "Is it appropriate for the clerks to pass the issue to the bureau?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 495336,
      "EditedText": "I assume that that is in your press release."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 495345,
      "EditedText": "Yes. In the interests of a smooth transition to lunchtime, therefore, it seems more reasonable for the Presiding Officer to have the ability to initiate the motion without having to involve a member. Other issues might arise, but that is the background to the item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 495348,
      "EditedText": "Iain has a good point. All that would be required would be a small addition to the business motion to say that the Parliament would adjourn for lunch at a certain time. When Parliament passed the business motion, it would also decide to adjourn for lunch.That solution would not answer the more general question of what the Presiding Officer can do, but adding a few words to the business motion would resolve the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 495350,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 495351,
      "EditedText": "If possible, we will simply lose the issue, but if there are wider implications, we might need to take them on board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 495353,
      "EditedText": "If we imagine that a flu bug struck down selected members, the Parliament might be left gasping to—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 495357,
      "EditedText": "We had assumed that business managers would give the evidence, but we are not restricted to that. Any member can give evidence and if the leader of the Scottish National party wished to do so directly, that would be entirely appropriate. Are we happy with the paper on issues 23 and 24?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 495360,
      "EditedText": "If we go along that route, we will have to exercise responsibility. Unless we let members know that the system is there by grace and favour, they will undoubtedly abuse it by saying that the issue is of importance and urgency to them, although it might not be to others. I am worried about starting to delineate questions—we could get ourselves into difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 495363,
      "EditedText": "That features in the eighth paper in paragraph 2 as work to be done, Michael. We will integrate that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 495366,
      "EditedText": "I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 495372,
      "EditedText": "There are some changes that must be made, or we will otherwise need to suspend standing orders repeatedly, and I suggest that those be redrafted and changed urgently. Those changes are obviously required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 495381,
      "EditedText": "It allows a bill that a number of members want to be promoted to get on to the agenda and to be discussed, even although it is going nowhere. If it is killed off beforehand, there will be no opportunity to ventilate the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 495384,
      "EditedText": "Is the difference, then, that we know that the financial resolution is coming in the case of an emergency bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 495386,
      "EditedText": "There is a difference. An emergency bill would not go to stage 1 unless the Presiding Officer was told by his clerks that it was an emergency bill and was, as in the case of the current emergency bill, consistent with the European convention on human rights. Would it otherwise have been certified?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 495387,
      "EditedText": "All bills must be certified under the convention on human rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2038E191P344C495389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Priority Issues",
      "HeadingID": 13429,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13429,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Iain",
      "ID": 2038,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Iain Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 495389,
      "EditedText": "Only the financial implications are different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Working Hours",
      "HeadingID": 13430,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ID": 13430,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 495394,
      "EditedText": "We move to the next paper from Donald Gorrie. We have discussed some of the timing implications and Donald can obviously come back to discuss this if he wishes to make further points. We will pick up on most of what is in the paper in the ongoing work of examining Parliament's hours. Does anyone wish to make any points about this paper? No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 495400,
      "EditedText": "That can make those members look stupid. On a number of occasions last week people getting up on their feet did not work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495401",
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      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 495401,
      "EditedText": "Speak for yourself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 495406,
      "EditedText": "Everything that you have said is a matter for common courtesy. The member who continually stands up when a speaker has made it perfectly clear that they do not intend to take interventions is the person who suffers. The atmosphere in the chamber will turn against such a person, particularly if they do it repeatedly. The situation should be left exactly as it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 495407,
      "EditedText": "I disagree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 495409,
      "EditedText": "That is a matter of chairmanship."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 495410,
      "EditedText": "People are undoubtedly abusing the system in that way. You know that, Mike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 495415,
      "EditedText": "No, I disagreed with Gil's point about common courtesy. On some occasions courtesy is not proffered as it should be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Summing-up Speeches (Interventions)",
      "HeadingID": 13431,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ID": 13431,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 495418,
      "EditedText": "It is also part of the learning process in which we are all involved. I am disinclined to move any further on this, unless we find that we have to revisit it. We should encourage an open and accessible form of debate—a debate involving interchange. We should relay some of our thoughts to the Presiding Officer for his guidance and interpretation. That is all that we need to do at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "The Chair (Form of Address)",
      "HeadingID": 13432,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ID": 13432,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 495420,
      "EditedText": "I think that you are right. One of the criticisms of the title Presiding Officer was that it was a cumbersome term, but it is only cumbersome if it is prefixed by \"Madam\" or \"Mr\". The Presiding Officer and the two deputies have accepted the term Presiding Officer, so I can see no reason for changing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "The Chair (Form of Address)",
      "HeadingID": 13432,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ID": 13432,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 495421,
      "EditedText": "Is it appropriate for a Deputy Presiding Officer who is in the chair to be addressed as Presiding Officer, because while they are there in the chair they are the Presiding Officer?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "The Chair (Form of Address)",
      "HeadingID": 13432,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ID": 13432,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 495423,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "The Chair (Form of Address)",
      "HeadingID": 13432,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ID": 13432,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 495424,
      "EditedText": "Let us strip away the prefixes, but also agree that is perfectly acceptable for members to say \"Sir David\", \"Mr Reid\", or \"Ms Ferguson\". We should not dabble with moderators, conveners, preses, and other elaborate titles from the past. There will be some people who are sorry that we do not have a president, but that is perhaps in a different context.We have dealt with that remarkably smoothly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders Comparators",
      "HeadingID": 13433,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ID": 13433,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 495425,
      "EditedText": "Barry Winetrobe has produced a paper on parliamentary comparators, which explains where people should look to find examples from other Parliaments. It is simply a matter to be noted. Are we happy with the paper, and with the list of comparators on the second page?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders Comparators",
      "HeadingID": 13433,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ID": 13433,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 495426,
      "EditedText": "I will certainly use the hypertext links in the on-line version. The purpose of having the resources that Barry has very helpfully produced is to consider from time to time what other Parliaments do in the same circumstances.I had a fascinating discussion with a couple of the American representatives who were here last week. I know that the bible—the book of precedents for the House of Representatives—is on the table in front of the convener. The representatives said that they were bogged down in precedent and spent the first half of every meeting deciding what they could do before they did anything, but some interesting little points came out of the conversation that could give us ideas and reasons for doing or not doing things. We should not refrain from asking Barry and his colleagues to tell us what others are doing, or from looking ourselves, and considering how that influences our thinking. Possibly research—referring to academic sources in other countries—would be useful to find out the thinking behind standing orders, in terms of precedent or activity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "House of Commons Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13434,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ID": 13434,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 495429,
      "EditedText": "I did not receive paper PR/99/3/6."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2816
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "House of Commons Procedure Committee",
      "HeadingID": 13434,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ID": 13434,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 495434,
      "EditedText": "We intend to negotiate a date for that meeting as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.1125923+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 283909,
      "EditedText": "The testing programme has been developed and has evolved over time. It is based very much on the scientific advice that is available. A balance has to be struck between conducting testing often enough to detect any changes and too frequently for changes to have been able to take place. Those involved in the testing programme know from experience how long it generally takes for levels in a given area to decline. That broad principle underpins how testing is carried out. There are some variations in specific areas, and I am sure that Godfrey Howard from the Marine Laboratory would be glad to provide further details on that now, if appropriate, or later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 283910,
      "EditedText": "I should be happy to hear from him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 283906,
      "EditedText": "Before you take questions from members of the committee, I want to pick up on your comment that there is on-going monitoring in the closed areas. How often does that take place—is it on a daily basis, for example?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 283913,
      "EditedText": "The member raises two important issues, and it is appropriate that I deal with them separately. One is public health; the other is compensation. The orders contain no provision for compensation; that is not within their scope. In making a decision on the matter, the Executive and I had to be governed by what was in the interests of public health. It should be noted that the fishermen's associations in the areas affected by the bans recognise the fact that we have to implement the measures and support our actions. They understand that, from a public health point of view, the bans are necessary There is the parallel issue of the implications for the industry and of what, if any, compensation provisions should be made. It forms part of much wider discussions conducted on a regular basis by my colleagues in the rural affairs department with representatives of the industry. Clearly, it is an important area, but I hope that the member will appreciate that, from my perspective as Minister for Health and Community Care and from the perspective of the committee, the stress has to be on acting in the interests of public health. That is our primary concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 283916,
      "EditedText": "Mr Hamilton has raised a range of questions that I will endeavour to address as freely as possible.It is worth restating an important point that underpins my answer to Mr Hamilton's questions. The implementation of the monitoring and testing programme is not a political decision, or a decision that has been taken arbitrarily. The decision has been made on the basis of scientific evidence and the experience of the people who are most closely involved with the situation and who have views on the most effective and appropriate way of implementing such a programme. It is worth noting that, given that the legislative context within which we operate is derived from the EU, many of the methodologies that have been developed extend beyond Scottish practices.I think that Mr Hamilton said that I had indicated that the level of toxin changes very quickly. I actually said that the people involved in the testing programme know from experience how long it takes for levels in different areas to shift."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 283920,
      "EditedText": "It is important to clarify that we are testing not for the existence of algal blooms, but for the presence of toxins in the shellfish.On the subject of trends, there has been significant research into this worldwide problem. The scientific community cannot say with any certainty what gives rise to the naturally occurring toxins and there are many theories about what may have led to the incidents. The trend suggests that such incidents are increasing. It is a matter of debate whether there has been an improvement in testing for the toxins or a real increase in toxin levels.Dr Simpson mentioned the time of year for testing, as did Mr Hamilton in a part of his question that I forgot to answer. The testing programme begins in April, not in late summer, as has been suggested. It is obvious that the standard of monitoring and testing constantly improves and we know that certain patterns have been detected in the summer months. I know that Godfrey is keen to add to the details about the monitoring programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 283923,
      "EditedText": "A couple of technical points need to be addressed. Dr Simpson referred to algal blooms. The word \"bloom\" is a misnomer, because the toxins are sometimes produced by low densities of different species of phytoplankton. Phytoplankton are ubiquitous. Sometimes they produce toxins; sometimes they do not. There are many different strains of phytoplankton, some of which produce toxins. We do not know what triggers toxin production. By monitoring phytoplankton, we have a theoretical indication of potential toxicity problems, but the theory is not always borne out in practice. The real test comes when we test particular shellfish for the presence of toxins. Such monitoring occurs throughout the year. Can I go on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 283926,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that if a small scallop starts to absorb the toxins, because the toxin levels are high, that whole generation of scallops is inedible and poisonous?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 283931,
      "EditedText": "Do you mean the testing of incoming samples?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 283932,
      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 283934,
      "EditedText": "Is there a commitment to uniformity of treatment or not? I understand the circumstances in which you work, but do they result in samples from some areas being treated more quickly than others?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 283936,
      "EditedText": "It is the collecting of the samples that concerns me. The other aspect that concerns me is the scientific evidence on which you base the tests. It would be exceptionally useful if that evidence were disseminated more freely. There is distrust about the source of that evidence. It is undeniable that a lot of that distrust may be based on misconception, but I do not think that people in the industry are particularly aware of the basis on which you proceed. Will the minister give a commitment to ensuring that that information is disseminated more freely?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 283937,
      "EditedText": "The scientific evidence to which Mr Hamilton refers is published annually, so it is widely available, but I will gladly ensure that it is widely disseminated. I encourage members whose constituents are interested in the matter to obtain a copy of the report on marine biotoxin monitoring and surveillance, published by the Marine Laboratory in Aberdeen and to make it available to people by all means. It can only ever be in the wider interest of us all for people to have as wide an understanding as possible of the reasons we must take public health decisions of this nature. I am conscious that a lot of these issues are highly technical, but I agree entirely with the principle that those who are affected should understand the reasoning behind our decisions. I must stress that strenuous efforts have been made to communicate with fishermen's representatives, local authorities and other local representatives when closure decisions have been taken to ensure that, as far as possible, information is disseminated, and I am always considering ways in which that process can be improved—now or in the future. One point that has not been covered relates to Richard Simpson's question about whether fishing waters will now be closed every summer from here on in. It is worth noting that last year large areas around Orkney, for example, were closed but have not been this year. It therefore does not follow that the same problem will apply in an area year on year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 283941,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Research is being done in Europe and worldwide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C283946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 283946,
      "EditedText": "I have one or two questions that pick up on what Duncan said. First, what is the level of dialogue between ministers and fishermen, growers and processors, who are obviously extremely anxious about their livelihood and the future of their industry? Secondly, given that large areas of water have, in effect, been closed, is not there a danger of over-fishing in adjacent waters? Is there evidence of that and, if so, what it being done about it? Finally, public confidence in Scottish shellfish has been severely dented. Are any steps being taken to improve consumer confidence in Scottish seafood? According to the draft research note produced by the information centre, Isle of Skye Seafood has suggested: \"Publicity has left people asking whether the whitefish we sell is affected.\" We all know what happens in such situations—public confidence plummets and can remain low for a long time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 283948,
      "EditedText": "That is one my concerns. Ross Finnie refused to meet the fishermen when he visited Mull last week on the ground that it was \"not his responsibility\". In this era of joined-up government, can we ensure that someone meets the fishermen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 283949,
      "EditedText": "I repeat that we are always pleased to have dialogue with representative bodies—and there is always room for improvement. I am confident that in this instance a lot of effort has been made to have dialogue. If any particular organisation feels that that is not the case, I would be prepared to take that up. As far as my responsibilities and the remit of this committee are concerned, I stress that our primary focus here must be the matter of public health. Any discussions with the industry ought to focus on that. As I said in the chamber when we debated food standards, there is of course a connection between how we deal with public health issues and industry confidence. It is important for us to remember the link between the two. Kay Ullrich mentioned consumer confidence. One of the reasons fishermen's representatives have supported us in taking this action on public health grounds is that they recognise that, in the longer term, the best way to restore confidence in their industry is to ensure that the public is not harmed by consuming the products for which they fish. I hope that that has adequately struck the balance between health and industry issues for members who asked about it. I will note the points that have been made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C283953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 283953,
      "EditedText": "On a point of order. This is the Health and Community Care Committee, which is looking at a specific problem from a health perspective. If we are concerned about other matters, we have the right as individual MSPs to raise issues with other committees. There is a danger that we will stray from our remit. I am not sure, convener, that your suggestion that you should write to Ross Finnie on behalf of this committee is within our remit. We are beginning to mix up the issues that are properly to be considered by this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C283955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 283955,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but although it would be competent for this committee to refer concerns with health implications to that minister, it is not for us to talk about a whole range of issues. That will happen with other things, as well as with shellfish. We must be clear about what we are meant to be addressing. If there is a matter to do with the livelihood of people involved in the industry, other avenues are open to us, individually and collectively, to deal with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 283956,
      "EditedText": "The health committee must be concerned with public well-being. I like the tone of this committee and the fact that it is concerned. The more information that is exchanged, the safer the public is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C283958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 283958,
      "EditedText": "The whole idea about joined-up government is that we cannot look at issues in isolation. As Dorothy said, the health and well-being of Scotland's shellfish fishermen is at stake. All sorts of things come into this. I think that the minister appreciates that. A meeting on this issue would be fairly sterile if we kept to a very narrow agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 283964,
      "EditedText": "It is a totally naturally occurring phenomenon. There are several algal toxins. Today, we are dealing with a toxin called ASP; we deal regularly in Scotland with two other toxins: PSP, paralytic shellfish poisoning and DSP, diuretic shellfish poisoning. Paralytic shellfish poisons have been known as a problem in shellfish for several hundred years—they are very well documented. The other toxins that we are dealing with are newly discovered, in the sense that they are newly identified toxins. In the past, problems caused by those toxins may well have been ignored because the symptoms that they would have produced in humans would have been put down to something else. It is only now, with the help of more sophisticated technology, that we are able to analyse and identify them. As I explained earlier, the toxins are produced by phytoplankton. Something switches on the toxin-producing mechanism; we are not sure what that is, but the toxins occur naturally and have been known about for a long time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 283966,
      "EditedText": "There is no evidence to support that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 283968,
      "EditedText": "It did; PSP has been known in the UK, and there have been recorded fatalities from PSP intoxication in humans since the mid-1800s. Those fatalities have been recorded. In 1968, 76 people were hospitalised in a major outbreak of PSP intoxication in the Newcastle area, caused by eating affected mussels originating from off the coast of Northumberland. As a result of that occurrence, the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food set up a relatively small-scale monitoring programme, which extended to Scotland and remained in place until 1990. In the period between 1968 and 1990, the monitoring programme picked up small, localised toxicity events, mainly on the east coast of Scotland and the north-east coast of England.To a degree, the monitoring programme also covered sites on the west coast of Scotland, but nothing was found. In 1990, we began finding levels of PSP toxin over a wide area of the west coast of Scotland. As a result, we formulated the monitoring programme that is in place today. I cannot say what caused the occurrence in 1990."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C283969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 283969,
      "EditedText": "If you are not sure what caused the occurrence in 1990, that might point towards a repeat, or even an annual, occurrence, which is the last thing that we want. I take Mr Henry's point about financial resources, but does Mr Howard feel that adequate scientific resources are being put into researching this topic, in order to ensure that we can get to the bottom of it and deal with it once and for all?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 283975,
      "EditedText": "I have one question to ask on these ubiquitous phytoplankton, as I believe you called them: are these blooms of them, which I gather are just a sort of splurge, occurring more frequently? Are we dealing with some climatic change here? Mary was trying to address that question. Is this simply a phenomenon on a long cycle, which may have occurred previously but was not identified, or could it be associated with changes that we should be concerned about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 283976,
      "EditedText": "It could be part of a long cycle. It could—and I stress the word \"could\"—be part of a wider environmental change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 283979,
      "EditedText": "We are at least considering that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 283981,
      "EditedText": "The minister may be glad that I now return to the subject of health. First, have there been any fatalities from ASP rather than PSP, about which I know a little? Secondly, are there specific centres that are dealing with the problem, or is it not serious enough to have to be dealt with in specific health units?Thirdly, are general practitioners in the affected areas aware of the symptoms and signs of this condition? Have they received any information that would allow them to identify it? I ask that because I am aware that an awful lot of food poisoning is not identified specifically. This type, with its neurotoxins, sounds rather nasty and is probably easier to identify. Nevertheless, have practitioners in those areas been briefed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C283983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 283983,
      "EditedText": "Are such cases determined as a reportable incidence, as there are many cases of food poisoning and this type would not necessarily be plucked out of the figures?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C283985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 283985,
      "EditedText": "They come under the broad brush, then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C283986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 283986,
      "EditedText": "You said, Godfrey, that ASP is caused by naturally occurring algal blooms. These blooms disappear, but toxin can remain. Is that correct? At what point is the prohibition lifted? Is it when it is clear not only that the blooms have disappeared, but that all traces of the toxin have disappeared? Secondly, do shellfish dispose of the toxin—I cannot remember the technical word that you used for that—in a consistent manner. In other words, if it is identified in a sampling process that the shellfish are clear of the toxin, could remnants of the shellfish congregation or grouping retain traces of the toxin?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C283989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 283989,
      "EditedText": "That begs the question: how can you be confident about lifting the ban in certain areas if the process is such a long one and if, as part of that process, the scallops can change the nature of the toxin? How can you be absolutely certain that, in the areas in which the ban is lifted, there is no further risk to public health?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 283992,
      "EditedText": "I just have three quick—and, I promise, final—questions.The first is on the sampling methods. Are the samples taken at different depths? Secondly, I would like to confirm that the ASP toxin is found in the roe of scallop. Is that correct? If so, is one way out of this situation through the market for roe-less scallops? Thirdly, I am a wee bit confused about the tests for lifting the ban. You said that the basis for lifting the ban in any area would be two consecutive tests, but earlier we were told that, as the algae could move, there would be a buffer zone—adjacent boxes on the grid that is in front of you—around an affected area. Is there a policy on the number of—if you like—buffer boxes surrounding an affected area before the ban would be lifted after two consecutive clean tests?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 283994,
      "EditedText": "Mr Hamilton talked about the toxins in the different tissues of the scallop. The toxins are fat-soluble; they tend to concentrate in the fatty tissues of animals. In the case of scallops, the toxins concentrate in the digestive gland—the hepatopancreas—which is a non-edible part of the animal. The toxins also tend to concentrate in the gonad—the roe—which is one of the edible parts. As we are required to test the edible part, or any portion thereof, and the gonad is an edible portion that concentrates the toxin, our test is conducted on the gonad.Mr Hamilton also mentioned spatial variation and depth. We have sampled over wide areas of the west coast, from relatively shallow waters, which are accessible by divers, to deeper waters in the middle of the north Minch, in which scallop-fishing vessels dredge. The spatial spread of the toxin is fairly uniform across the whole area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 283995,
      "EditedText": "On the third question about lifting the ban, it is fair to say that we are using a combination of absolute measures and an element of judgment. The level that is laid down in the EU directive is the absolute measure. The element of judgment relates to the level that is found within a particular box, and—as you rightly say, Mr Hamilton—within adjacent areas; judgments are made on a case-by-case basis. Clearly, in reaching a decision to lift a ban, I am guided by scientific advice because, as I said, there is a great deal of experience about what levels are safe, and that knowledge allows us to reach a reasonable conclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 284004,
      "EditedText": "That the Parliament Health and Community Care Committee in consideration of the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27) recommends that the order be approved.—Susan Deacon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 284006,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C284007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 284007,
      "EditedText": "I thank, first, the minister for giving us her time; I know that she is very busy and that this issue is only one of many on her desk. I also thank the officials who came with the minister, particularly Mr Howard, who has answered our questions thoughtfully and at length. It is clear from the interest shown and the comments and questions that the committee takes this issue seriously—as a public health issue and in terms of public confidence in the shellfish industry and the fishing industry generally. We appreciate the depth of the answers that we have had from the minister and the officials."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 7 September 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 283903,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:01"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 283908,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned a couple of issues that I wanted to raise. Is testing in certain areas less frequent than in others? The Orkney Fisheries Association, for example, felt that its area was subject to less frequent testing than others, which means that there would be a longer time lag before the ban could be lifted there. I—and, no doubt, the association—welcome the fact that there has been a partial lifting of the ban, but could you indicate whether testing around Orkney is less frequent than it is elsewhere?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 283915,
      "EditedText": "I have just returned from a weekend of surgeries on the island of Mull, which, as the minister will know, is greatly affected by the problem. If my questions seem rather specific, that is why.The minister said that ASP levels changed quickly and that tests were carried out fortnightly. Why do you think that that is sufficient? Some of the fishermen to whom I have spoken are worried that it might not be.The convener raised a point about consistency that has also been raised with me, although this time from a southerly perspective. Can the minister confirm that, although tests had been carried out over 10 days in the area around Stonehaven, other areas had been waiting much longer for tests? It might be useful to put it on record that there was a stipulation to apply uniformity across the board.My third question concerns the date when the tests begin. An examination of the annual frequency of the tests shows that they start in July. I understand that there might be a simple scientific reason, but should not testing take place earlier, to detect the problem earlier?Furthermore, can the minister comment on a piecemeal lifting of the ban? Some people in the industry—as well as the minister today—have said that they are against such a policy, but that view is not shared by many of the affected fishermen. Can the minister outline why a piecemeal lifting of the ban is to be ruled out? Fishermen feel that having to wait for a wholesale lifting of the ban is not responsive enough to their needs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 283918,
      "EditedText": "I am bound to reiterate what I have already said. The important point is that our judgments on this matter have not been arbitrary—they are based on sound scientific evidence. The people who are most closely involved in the testing programme know how frequently the tests should be carried out. I am conscious of repeating myself, but it is important to restate that we need to strike a balance between taking precautions to protect public health and not keeping waters closed for any longer than necessary if levels of toxin have dropped. As I have said, we have reopened certain areas where testing has shown that levels have shifted.I am sure that we—and the scientific community—could have a long debate about some of the detailed aspects of the testing programme. Again, I am more than happy to ask Godfrey Howard from the Marine Laboratory to explain the technical basis of the programme. However, as the minister laying these orders before the committee, I have to say that we must use scientific evidence to make the best judgment about the right action to take. Mr Hamilton asked whether a piecemeal approach to lifting the ban was satisfactory. We cannot take risks with public health. As I have said, we know that toxins can be concentrated in certain areas and that the limits of the boxes that have been identified for closure may extend beyond such hot spots. However, we also know that, because the toxins move, we have to close those wider areas to protect public health. We have proceeded on that basis throughout the problem and, having examined the matter closely for several months, I believe that we are taking the right action in the interests of the health of the people we represent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 283919,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem with the minister's view that the protection of public safety is paramount in this situation. However, I would like to get some background to the problem. First, does the presence of the bloom always indicate the presence of toxin? The minister said that the condition is relatively new, having been around only since 1990, but does that refer to the bloom, or to the bloom and toxin together?Finally, we have heard that the bloom becomes more manifest in early spring and summer. Has there been a rising cyclical pattern over the years? I ask that question because I am concerned that the situation will not be a one-off, but will result either in the permanent closure of our scallop fields or in scallop fishing being restricted to certain periods of the year. Both outcomes could affect communities significantly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 283921,
      "EditedText": "With the convener's permission?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 283922,
      "EditedText": "Yes, absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 283925,
      "EditedText": "The problem with scallops is that their metabolism retains toxins for longer than do those of most other species of bivalve shellfish. If most shellfish species, such as mussels and oysters, take in toxins, they get rid of them very rapidly once the causative organism has disappeared. However, due to their metabolic function, scallops retain the toxins and can do so for an extensive period. Despite a general decline in toxin levels, the levels can remain above the statutory maximum for some period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 283929,
      "EditedText": "We have tested scallops for six months after the toxin-producing organisms have disappeared. However, I should emphasise that that was in the case of PSP—paralytic shellfish poisoning—not ASP, which we are dealing with now, although I believe that retention times are similar. Scallops, certainly, can retain toxins at detectable levels for at least six months and possibly longer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 283930,
      "EditedText": "I would like to come back to some specific questions, in particular the question of uniformity of treatment, which Godfrey may be the person to answer. Will you put on the record a commitment to uniformity of treatment in testing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 283933,
      "EditedText": "As is obvious, at the moment we are receiving a large number of samples from Scotland, but we are also responsible for toxin monitoring throughout the United Kingdom. We cannot ignore that simply because we have an extensive problem in Scotland. All the samples that we receive are logged and analysed in rotation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 283935,
      "EditedText": "No. The samples that we receive from the monitoring programme in Scotland are dealt with in rotation. For example, the samples that we receive today from the vessels that we have chartered will be logged this evening and worked on tomorrow and on Thursday. As soon as the samples come in they are all dealt with in rotation. We do not discriminate between areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 283939,
      "EditedText": "Various areas are being researched, many of which deal with environmental matters—if I can term them as such—such as the causes of plankton blooms. Not only toxic blooms, but plankton blooms in general, are being examined. Research is also being done into nutrient inputs—whether anthroprogenic or from natural sources—into coastal waters, and into alternative methods for the analysis of such toxins. It is difficult to say that research is being done into the causes of toxins, because the problems involved are so enormous that one particular area cannot be pinpointed, rather there is an all-embracing research programme that examines several aspects of the same problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 283940,
      "EditedText": "Is research going on elsewhere, as well as at the Marine Laboratory?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 283942,
      "EditedText": "Is the Scottish research budget increasing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 283944,
      "EditedText": "Will the minister break down the £600,000 into monitoring and research?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 283945,
      "EditedText": "It is about 50:50, but I would be happy to give exact figures to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 283947,
      "EditedText": "I will deal first with the question about meetings. It is necessary to distinguish between meetings on the health side and those on the industry side. As far as health is concerned, the rural affairs officials who are involved in the public health issues that this matter raises have had two meetings with relevant fishermen's representatives. Jim Wallace, a local member and I will have a meeting with the Orkney fishermen next week. It is not, however, my role as health minister to engage in wider discussions with the industry about its future. I am mindful of the wider issues and I can give an assurance that my colleagues Ross Finnie and John Home Robertson are having wider discussions. The Rural Affairs Committee will want to look at that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C283951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 283951,
      "EditedText": "Susan, we were throwing questions at you and you probably forgot to answer. I do not know how good your shorthand is—probably as good as mine—but I did ask whether, to your knowledge, there has been any evidence of over-fishing in adjacent waters?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C283959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 283959,
      "EditedText": "We have a specific remit, whether we like it or not"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 283962,
      "EditedText": "We have to be careful not to speculate about the reasons why the toxins occur. That is not to negate the importance of asking the question. However, I think that it would be inappropriate—verging on irresponsible—for us to guess why the toxins should occur. As we discussed earlier, the important fact is that there is worldwide research into the problem, including a great deal of research in Scotland. As and when that research produces substantive findings, information will be shared and its implications will be considered.On the question of publicity about the issue, I agree that it is important to be clear about which kinds of shellfish are affected. We have been very clear in our public statements and we communicate test results on a weekly basis to the affected fishermen. Occasionally, press reports appear that are not so specific about which shellfish are affected, but we work as much as possible to avoid that happening.We have talked about the Scottish fishing industry, and, for the avoidance of any doubt, it is important to note that the toxins do not affect whitefish—they specifically affect shellfish. It is also worth noting that scallops have been the subject of widespread water closures in previous years, not for ASP—the subject we are discussing today—but for paralytic shellfish poisoning. There is a history of taking action in this way. One reassuring point is that the evidence shows that where that has happened and where waters have been reopened, there is no evidence of any reduction in demand for the product when it is made available once again.Having said all that, and having restated my obvious concern for the industry, I must stress—this is a strong message from the Executive—that we take such decisions on the basis of what is right in order to safeguard public health. As I indicated earlier, I believe that there are good reasons for the decision in terms of maintaining industry confidence and confidence in the product. There must always be a clear and guiding principle, and the guiding principle for the Executive must be the interests of public health. That is the basis of the orders that the committee is considering today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C283963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 283963,
      "EditedText": "I agree with the minister about the views of the fishermen. The feedback that I have had suggests that they are very supportive of the ban because it substantiates and supports their excellent product, which they have marketed very well over some time. On the west coast of Scotland, fishing is not just an industry or a few jobs, it is part of the culture, and is the backbone of the whole economy.A few of the questions that I wanted to ask have already been raised, but I am interested to know what changed in 1990. Both the convener and the minister have said that the toxins were a totally natural occurrence. Can Mr Howard confirm that and explain what happened in 1990 to cause them to occur?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C283967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 283967,
      "EditedText": "So why did it not happen before 1990?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 283970,
      "EditedText": "The level of research into the topic will be unable to prevent outbreaks, although further research could identify the causes more adequately than we are able to at present. I should say—and this refers to Dr Simpson's questions about the annual recurrence—that in previous years we have had severe problems with PSP in different places. As Susan Deacon said, there have been widespread closures of scallop grounds in the past. This year, we have had very little PSP, although we have an ASP problem. I said earlier that there was a big outbreak, and recurring outbreaks, of PSP on the east coast of England. Those outbreaks have ceased or have been reduced almost to zero over the past five or six years. However, we are picking it up in other places; for example, in other areas of England."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C283971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 283971,
      "EditedText": "Does it concern you that you do not know its cause?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 283972,
      "EditedText": "No, because—as I said—toxins are produced quite naturally by phytoplankton. I do not know the reasons for that; people are looking for reasons, but they have not found any answers yet. At the moment, our job, and our primary concern, is to prevent toxic shellfish from reaching the market."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C283973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 283973,
      "EditedText": "My final point concerns the lifting of the ban. As you are monitoring over such an extensive area, is there likely to be a partial lifting of the ban or will the ban remain in place over the full area that is covered by the statutory instruments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 283982,
      "EditedText": "In reply to Dr Simpson's first question, no cases of ASP have been recorded in Scotland. However, we know the impact that ASP can have in other countries. As recently as 1997 there was an outbreak in Canada, involving 107 cases and four fatalities. That is evidence of the impact that the poisoning can have.The treatment of ASP is not at issue, as it has not occurred in Scotland. However, the effects of the various forms of food poisoning, as I understand them, are fairly severe and we can expect people to have to report to accident and emergency departments to be treated.We are moving forward towards the creation of the food standards agency, which will have a broad remit to undertake research and to develop recommendations for the Government on food safety and issues relating to both the monitoring and treatment of food poisoning. The present issue is part of a much bigger jigsaw. Once that agency is in place, I am sure that this matter will be part of what it will consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 283984,
      "EditedText": "I am told that such cases are reportable as food poisoning."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283987",
    "Meeting": {
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 283987,
      "EditedText": "With the committee's agreement, I would be happy for Godfrey Howard to deal with the detailed scientific points raised. I have here a detailed map of the toxin levels in the different areas affected, which some of you will have seen. As I indicated earlier, decisions on the ban and on the order relate to the maximum level of 20 µg of domoic acid per gram of tissue; that is the level stipulated by the European Union, above which we would be required to take action. To lift the ban, we would need two consecutive negative tests far enough below that level to feel confident that the risk to public health had fallen sufficiently. That is the basis on which we take the decision. The science is rather more complex."
    },
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  {
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    },
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      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 283988,
      "EditedText": "Hugh mentioned the shellfish getting rid of the toxins by what we call depuration. Unfortunately, the depuration of the toxins from the tissues of scallops is not a linear curve—it does not occur on a straight-line declination. The scallops can change the toxin from one component to a more potent one, although that takes a long time."
    },
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  {
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    },
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      "ID": 134
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
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      "EditedText": "Because there has never been evidence that the toxin increases again once it has declined below a particular level. We have a lot of data on this, going back many years, and have never yet been proved wrong. There could always be a first time, but we are fairly confident that, when we give scientific advice that an area is safe, it is safe."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283997",
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      "ID": 1680
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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      "EditedText": "Decisions are reached ultimately on a case-by-case basis, within the stricter framework that is laid down in the directive."
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  {
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister. The question is, that the motion in the name of Susan Deacon be agreed to."
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  {
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      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:15."
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  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 283904,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the Health and Community Care Committee. We are to consider food protection orders on amnesic shellfish poisoning. Two Scottish statutory instruments were laid before Parliament on 20 August under part 1 of the Food and Environment Protection Act 1985. The orders relate to the problem of amnesic shellfish poisoning and its impact on fishing grounds off the coast of Orkney and the west coast of Scotland. They prevent fishing for scallops and queen scallops in those areas and prevent contaminated foodstuffs from being taken from the designated areas. Another SSI relating to Aberdeenshire has been lifted. The SSIs will lapse on 13 September if Parliament does not approve them by that date.Most members will have received background papers, but I shall give a general introduction. Amnesic shellfish poisoning is caused by a marine biotoxin, which is caused by naturally occurring algal blooms that move with tidal currents across wide areas. The toxin accumulates in certain shellfish and human consumption of them can lead to severe health problems. The condition takes its name from the fact that loss of short-term memory can be one of the symptoms. Since 1997 there has been periodic monitoring for the presence of ASP toxins in molluscs. In accordance with the 1985 act, ministers may make emergency orders by statutory instrument that designate affected areas and last for 28 days. It is possible for SSIs to be wholly or partially revoked at any time, as was the case with the Aberdeen area, and I am sure that the Minister for Health and Community Care will give us more details about the situation in Orkney. The orders can also be extended, as has been the case on the west coast. Primarily, we are viewing the problem as a public health concern, but there is an on-going impact on the fishing and shellfish processing industries. No doubt we will touch on that aspect in our discussions today and at our meeting tomorrow. The health minister is with us to speak to her motion that the orders be approved. Members should have a note on the due process of considering the statutory instruments in committee. In total, we have 90 minutes for our proceedings. I am not sure whether we will make full use of that time. I welcome Susan and her officials to the meeting. Obviously on this occasion we are considering amnesic shellfish poisoning, but no doubt this will be the first of many visits—possibly not all pleasant—by the minister. The meeting will begin with the minister moving the motion on the two instruments; she will outline the background to and reasons for the instruments. The minister will take questions from the committee and clarify some of her points."
    },
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  },
  {
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    },
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard (Head of Shellfish Hygiene Team, Marine Laboratory, Aberdeen): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 283911,
      "EditedText": "In answer to the convener's question, there is not less frequent sampling in Orkney. A boat was sampling in the area yesterday and samples will be sent to the Marine Laboratory today. We have fishing boats on charter sampling in the north Minch, the south Minch and the Sound of Jura, and in Orkney."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283905",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 1680
    },
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      "ID": 134
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Health and Community Care (Susan Deacon): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 283905,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased to be here on my first visit to the Health and Community Care Committee. I am sure that the convener is right to say that this will be the first of many visits, many of which I hope will be pleasant and all of which I hope will be searching. We are here for a specific purpose. I should like to outline some of the reasons why the orders are before members today, to set out briefly some of the key considerations that the Executive has had in mind in laying the orders and to explain why it has been necessary to take this action to protect public health. As the convener outlined, the emergency orders ban fishing for scallops and queen scallops in waters around Scotland. The orders have been made as the result of the build-up of a naturally occurring toxin, amnesic shellfish poisoning toxin, which is better known as ASP. The toxins accumulate in the tissues of shellfish, which feed on plankton, and traditionally have been associated with naturally occurring algal blooms in late spring and summer. ASP toxin is a potential health hazard and the essential purpose of the orders is, as the convener said, to protect public health. The symptoms of ASP in humans include nausea, vomiting, confusion and short-term memory loss. The toxin interferes with neurotransmission in the brain and can be fatal.Under the EC shellfish hygiene directive, member states are required to put in place monitoring programmes for algal toxins in the commercial production areas. In the UK, that requirement is met by monitoring the water for potentially toxic algal species and by testing samples of shellfish flesh for the presence of toxins. The routine monitoring system is carried out by the Marine Laboratory, Aberdeen and is currently based on testing at 36 fixed sites around the Scottish coast. I am please that Godfrey Howard from the Marine Laboratory is with me today—and if the committee wishes, he will be pleased to give further details of the testing programme. The programme is supplemented by additional test locations when rising levels of toxin require more data to establish the extent of an outbreak. Samples are tested in accordance with EU required methodologies. The tests are complex and require specialist laboratory expertise and facilities. The decision to make the orders has been taken on test results from that programme. The EC shellfish hygiene directive specifies that the level of ASP in edible parts of molluscs must not exceed 20 (g of domoic acid per gram of tissue. Crucially, the directive also requires production areas to be closed when a member state's monitoring programme reveals that those requirements are not being met. I thought that it would be useful to take members through some of the background to the orders before they are laid. By early July, ASP toxins were detected in samples of scallops taken by the Marine Laboratory from waters on the west coast of Scotland. The samples found that ASP toxin levels exceeded the EU action limit over a wide area of water, with some levels more than 10 times greater than the action limit. Over such a large area, we could not be sure whether the toxin was spread evenly or—possibly more likely—whether it occurred at random hot spots. The scale of the results was too high to ignore. It would have made no sense to close small areas around the highly affected locations that had been detected because algal blooms are not static. We concluded that a piecemeal approach would be inadequate to ensure public safety. As a consequence, the area prohibited under the west coast order extends over a considerable stretch of water around the west coast of Scotland. The monitoring programme also identified high toxin levels in an area of water on the eastern side of the Orkney islands. That area was closed under the Orkney order on 17 August and was partially reopened on 1 September. As soon as the orders were made, the local authorities, fishermen's and trade organisations and the Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency were alerted.The closed areas must be monitored. The SFPA monitors compliance with the bans through marine surveillance operations and at ports of landing. Local authority environmental health officers ensure that the effect of the order is understood locally and that, where appropriate, warning notices advising the public not to gather shellfish to eat are posted in affected areas. In addition, when areas of open sea are closed to fishing, the Scottish Executive must authorise vessels to go out to the banned areas to take samples of the prohibited species for testing.That monitoring programme is on-going. Samples from the closed areas continue to be monitored, so that we will know as soon as it is safe to reopen the fisheries. However, it must be remembered that the toxin, while harmful to humans, does not kill the shellfish, which remain available for fishing when the order is lifted.To put the decisions in a wider context, I will close by giving the committee some of the historical background. Closures due to high algal toxin levels are not new. They have been an annual occurrence around Scotland since 1990. The shellfish organisations are kept informed of developments through their respective trade associations and via the Scottish Executive telephone hotline, which was introduced in 1995 to give fishermen up-to-date information on marine biotoxins.The toxins occur worldwide—this is not a distinctively Scottish problem. The international scientific community is researching the causes of the blooms and the occurrence of the toxins. The Marine Laboratory in Aberdeen is actively involved in that research and receives funding from the Scottish Executive, the EU and the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.I appreciate the effects that the closure orders will have on the shellfish industry. However, because of the high ASP levels, the measures had to be taken to safeguard public health and to comply with EC requirements. The results received to date still show high levels of ASP toxins in scallops in the waters in question.I emphasise that our aim in taking this action is to ensure that the public are effectively protected from toxins and to protect the good name of the Scottish shellfish industry. I give an assurance that the orders will be revoked as soon as the results of continued sampling and medical and scientific advice indicate that it is safe to do so.I hope that that helps the committee understand the background to the laying of the orders. As I said earlier, I will be pleased to answer any questions that members of the committee have. The officials with me can provide further technical details on the monitoring and testing programmes, as well as on the toxins, if that is of interest to committee members.I move,That the Parliament Health and Community Care Committee in consideration of the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) recommends that the order be approved."
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 283907,
      "EditedText": "Typically, the monitoring is carried out fortnightly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 283912,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, the first imperative is to protect the public, but this is a disaster for the fishing industry. What steps is the minister prepared to take to compensate our fishermen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 283914,
      "EditedText": "I echo the minister's point: compensation is not really within the remit of this committee, even though we realise the human impact of the orders on the economy of rural Scotland, fishermen's livelihoods and so on. The fishing industry has acted responsibly on the issue; it is on record as saying that it accepts the bans and that public health is paramount. As the minister said, we need to protect the good name of the fishing industry, particularly the shellfish industry, in Scotland; the industry does not want to take chances with that any more than we do. However, compensation is for others to deal with.On a point of clarification, at tomorrow's meeting of the committee I intend to mention that at the beginning of October the chief medical officer will be speaking to the Rural Affairs Committee on amnesic shellfish poisoning. I will suggest that representatives of this committee go along to that meeting to talk to the chief medical officer about the issue, as it is an on-going problem. I will put that to the committee tomorrow; it is for members to decide whether they wish to take up the suggestion. The beef-on-the-bone ban is another public health matter in which the Rural Affairs Committee is interested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 283917,
      "EditedText": "That point was emphasised in the briefing note and by people in the industry. There may be some confusion about the issue, but the evidence in the briefing document suggests that levels of toxin change very quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 283924,
      "EditedText": "Please do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 283927,
      "EditedText": "No. Once the causative organism has gone and the toxin is no longer being taken in, the scallops start to depurate themselves, but the depuration process can take a long time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 283928,
      "EditedText": "Have you any idea how long?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 283938,
      "EditedText": "If this is a continuing problem—and it does seem to be getting worse—can Mr Howard give us some background on the kind of research that is being done and tell us what is happening with the research budget? Are we spending more money on research?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 283943,
      "EditedText": "I will answer this. The politicians always have to pick up the money questions. I believe that I am correct in saying that, this year, the Scottish Executive is spending £600,000 on monitoring and research. I have discussed this issue with my colleague, Sarah Boyack, the Minister for Transport and the Environment. There are research questions that we may want to consider separately, depending on our experience of the problem in this and future years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 283950,
      "EditedText": "On behalf of the committee, I will write to the Minister for Rural Affairs to ask that he meets the fishermen to answer any of the questions that they want to raise with him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 283952,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I am in a position to answer that question, but I am happy for it to be referred to relevant colleagues, or for it be raised and addressed in other ways."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 283954,
      "EditedText": "I will pick up on the minister's point about the difficult line between what is primarily a public health issue and its impact on people's livelihoods. Being aware of that is not the primary function of this committee, but I would not expect the Minister for Rural Affairs to be averse to taking a comment from us in the manner in which it was intended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 283957,
      "EditedText": "I will write to the minister in an individual capacity saying that I hope that he will listen to the fishermen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 283960,
      "EditedText": "We must engage in a commonsense debate about this issue, which keeps overlapping into wider issues, and it would be artificial for us not to allow that. The minister has given us some very interesting information. The fishermen have raised the issue of communication from a public health point of view and from that of their livelihood. It is difficult to find an absolute line that cannot be crossed. I will take advisement on the question after the meeting, but in this case we accept that there is a fine line over which the issue goes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 283961,
      "EditedText": "Will the minister be extra careful about publicity? She and others have referred to the fact that only scallops and queen scallops are affected and that mussels and other forms of shellfish are in the clear. The emergency prohibitions have to use the correct term—including the word shellfish—but we do not want the public to panic away from all shellfish. It must be made terribly clear that mussels and other forms of shellfish are quite safe. I do not know how the public is being made aware—whether you are using posters or what—but all references must be clear so that the fishing industry is not worse hit and the public knows what is safe to eat. Perhaps the Scottish Executive can make that very clear in its handouts.No one knows what triggers this problem, but the minister states that it has recurred over the last nine years, so it seems to be on the increase. It is an international problem, which global research shows. Is it possible that pollution or global warming are involved here?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C283965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 283965,
      "EditedText": "Have you ruled out those toxins being brought about by any other type of fishing off the west coast?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7505,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 283974,
      "EditedText": "We have not only indicated that we are willing to consider a partial lifting of the ban, but we have already done so. In the case of the Orkney order, for example, part of the affected area was reopened at the beginning of September. Through the monitoring and testing processes that have been described, we monitor the situation continuously and we will be willing to lift the ban partially when we can be confident that it is safe to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 283977,
      "EditedText": "We just do not know?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 283978,
      "EditedText": "We just do not know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Godfrey Howard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 283980,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 283991,
      "EditedText": "I call Duncan Hamilton to speak, and then, unless anyone has any further comment or question, I am minded to move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 283993,
      "EditedText": "Mr Howard will answer the first two questions and I will answer the third."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 283996,
      "EditedText": "So the decision is reached case by case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 283998,
      "EditedText": "I now ask the minister to sum up and to put her motion to the committee. We shall then move to the vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1871E113P240C283999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Deacon, Susan",
      "ID": 1871,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh East and Musselburgh"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Susan Deacon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 283999,
      "EditedText": "I will sum up very briefly. I hope that the committee has found it useful to have an opportunity to go into the background to these orders and the science that underpins the testing and monitoring. My primary concern, which I hope will be shared by the committee, is to ensure that we, as the Government, act responsibly and take suitable precautions to protect public health and the public interest. Clearly, in doing that, we are mindful that such decisions can have implications for the industries concerned. We want to ensure that consumer confidence is protected so that, when people go into shops anywhere in the country, they can be confident about the food that they buy and know that we have taken all available steps to ensure that they can have that confidence. That is the basis on which we have taken action and on which I commend the motion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 7505,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 284001,
      "EditedText": "Motion agreed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 3.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 284002,
      "EditedText": "That the Parliament Health and Community Care Committee in consideration of the Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) recommends that the order be approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C284003",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1680
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26) <br />Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 284003,
      "EditedText": "Motion moved,"
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3360425+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C240570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 240570,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I received a copy by e-mail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 240571,
      "EditedText": "Good. What we have to do today is fairly clear and is set out in that brief. The Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill having been referred to us, we have to decide as a committee whether a financial resolution is required under the bill, and whether the estimated costs and savings detailed in the memorandum—which appears on pages 20 to 22 of the paper that was circulated last week—appear to be reasonable. We also have the opportunity to consider the terms of the Executive's finance motion. Has everyone seen that motion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 240580,
      "EditedText": "My comment was on a separate topic, so we can come to it later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 240581,
      "EditedText": "Richard makes a fair point, which has more to do with the legislation than with the financial consequences. It raises questions about how far we are to judge the financial implications of a piece of legislation. I am of the same opinion as Richard; paragraph 36 seems to be a fair assessment of the likely direct costs. The briefing paper may raise issues about how far the Executive expects us to extend our scope in judging the financial implications of legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 240584,
      "EditedText": "We must therefore draw to the Executive's attention the fact that we intend to monitor the situation, to ensure that costs are not significantly in excess of the estimates. I am sure that members of the Executive will want to do so too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 240586,
      "EditedText": "It is not unreasonable to expect that there will be a report on the costs, savings and additional expenditure across the board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C240587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 240587,
      "EditedText": "That is what I am suggesting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 240592,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify what you mean by structure, Andrew? Are you saying that the way in which the memorandum is set out is all right, but that it is not specific enough on costs, parameters and, if there is any budget revision, on where additional costs will be met."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 240601,
      "EditedText": "Given that the Audit Committee looks back on spending, I think that that is the case. The clerk has just reminded me that there will be an opportunity at stage 2 for members to lodge amendments to probe the figures. The Executive might be able to give more precise estimates then.Instead of giving fairly precise figures—relatively modest ones—would it have been better for the Executive to double them on the ground that that would ensure that expenditure did not exceed the prediction? I am not sure that that would be particularly helpful. At this stage the figures are not just speculative—they are shots in the dark."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 240607,
      "EditedText": "We want to tell the Executive that we would rather be given parameters than the specific figures that have been supplied in this case. At the same time, in this particular case—which we cannot avoid coming back to—we want to monitor the situation to see how it pans out in subsequent years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 240613,
      "EditedText": "It is a question to be asked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 240615,
      "EditedText": "Let us not get dragged onto the subject of egos and career prospects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 240619,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and the point was made that, in the House of Commons bill, the cost of legislation was disregarded, although we must take account of that cost in this Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 240620,
      "EditedText": "Although there may be a reduction in appeals to the House of Lords, there is still the question of European legislation. We have been assured that the bill fits with the European human rights legislation that we have adopted, but I suspect that someone out there will be willing to challenge that. There may be costs in establishing the law by judgment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 240622,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 240631,
      "EditedText": "We are not allowed to form sub-committees, David—we are not permitted to form them without referring to the Parliamentary Bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 240641,
      "EditedText": "I am uncomfortable about indicating to the bureau that we are happy, in the normal course of things, for motions to be taken without debate in the Parliament. We should have the opportunity to raise such matters, but if a motion has been scrutinised in this committee I do not think that there would be much value in its going to a debate in the Parliament. I would not, however, want that opportunity to be closed off, which would give Parliament the wrong signal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240644",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 240644,
      "EditedText": "It is a question of timing. The bureau prepares the business motion. It depends on how far ahead the business is being prepared, but it is a matter of my expressing the committee's view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 7 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mike Watson): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 240568,
      "EditedText": "Colleagues, I call this meeting of the Finance Committee to order. I ask everyone in the room, whether they are members of the committee, clerks, official reporters or journalists, to ensure that their mobile phones are switched off and that their pagers are programmed to vibrate rather than to bleep. Before we begin the business that is on the agenda, I remind committee members that they should wait behind after the meeting for an informal discussion on a matter relating to a briefing that is scheduled for next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 240569,
      "EditedText": "There is just one item on the agenda. The clerk has circulated a briefing note outlining the pertinent issues. I hope that everyone has seen that note and had a chance to go through it. It occurs to me, Elaine, that you have travelled here from Aberdeen only this morning. Have you received a copy of the brief?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 240576,
      "EditedText": "I think that the Executive is aware of it now. Nobody knows what will happen. The Executive has tried to make the change in the law apply only to the small number of prisoners who need to be retained and to the so-called loophole in the existing legislation, but the law has to apply to everybody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 240577,
      "EditedText": "We accept that. Are you arguing that, while they are still speculative, the figures underestimate the likely costs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 240578,
      "EditedText": "That is what I wonder about. There may be savings in the prison service, but the costs per prisoner in the state hospital are substantially more than the cost per prisoner in the prison system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 240579,
      "EditedText": "I think that Andrew Wilson wanted to make a comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 240582,
      "EditedText": "Because we are dealing with an unknown quantity, the best thing to do is to flag up to the Executive the fact that, until the matter settles down, we would like to see an annual statement about the outcome of this resolution. That way, an annual investigation could be conducted, either by us or by the Audit Committee. I assume that the costs are an item in the Executive's budget and can therefore be questioned annually by the Finance Committee. That is the best offer that we can make in order to retain scrutiny as the situation develops."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 240583,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point. Richard pointed out that the bill could have unintended consequences. It could result in many more people being locked up in Carstairs at goodness knows how much increased cost.This is emergency legislation, and will be superseded in due course by other legislation. We do not want costs to spiral out of control. We need a method for coming back to this bill and checking that that is not happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 240590,
      "EditedText": "Sorry to interrupt, Andrew, but we have already covered that point. We have said that the cost given in the memorandum cannot be anything other than an estimate. We cannot put parameters on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 240591,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Most public sector appraisals, however, provide upper and lower estimates. My concern is not so much to do with the bill as with finding a formula to which we can return in future. We need to set that out now so that it is established. We have a fixed budget. This sort of measure will not appear in the Executive's budget, because it is too far down the list of spending. If spending takes place, it will come from somewhere else. We need to understand where it will come from, and that information is not set out in the documents that we have here. I would like us to give some thought to our requirements for dealing with financial memorandums in the future. Today's business concerns a small item, the costs of which are impossible to judge and must be left to the Administration, but the structure of such things should be set out more clearly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 240594,
      "EditedText": "That is what I was trying to flag up, although in a slightly different way. I understand Andrew's point about having a banding within which spend should occur, but we are talking about an evolving situation. This is also the first financial memorandum that the committee has received. When we decide that matters should come through the committee, it will be incumbent on us to follow them up annually until we are content that the system has settled down. That is a chore that we are going to have to perform.Annual review would cover Andrew's point in the short term. We need to see a few other matters before we can reach the very tight, formulaic approach that Andrew wants. Is that what you are suggesting, Andrew?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 240596,
      "EditedText": "Quite. My point is that we have a fixed budget; the memorandum implies that extra expenditure will take place and I have no idea where the money will come from. Will it come out of the reserve, if one exists? Will it come from the Carstairs budget or from within the health budget? Those are the issues that should be set out in financial memorandums in the future.I am not bothered about the specific points here, but—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 240597,
      "EditedText": "I would have thought that the budget revision would cover that, when we get that information. I do not know about a separate reserve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 240599,
      "EditedText": "As we scrutinise the whole budget process, we should be able to call for that level of detail on what has happened in a particular area and where the money has been spent in terms of what the committee agreed to be acceptable. We would then know whether the amount was growing or whether it was as had been predicted. The committee will not, however, get into that level of detail with such small sums, unless it is examining issues of specific concern. We will consider large amounts of money when we go through the budget process. If there are particular concerns about a budget going out of control, we will want to know the details and where the funding transfers are taking place to deal with the matter. However, I do not think that we will normally need to get down to this level of detail. The committee will have a huge work load scrutinising the budget at a higher level. Andrew's point is that the memorandum must contain some variations so that, at a later date, we can check against those predictions to see what is happening."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 240600,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Andrew that the figures in the memorandum are too vague to be much use, but we are trying to be reasonable—to say whether this is a reasonable estimate. It would be good to define which budget the money will come from, although the memorandum seems to state that it will come from various different budgets: social services, health and the legal system. The estimates are very vague, but the point is that they are reasonable, and that is the key.We need to monitor the budgets to ensure that they do not go out of control, but will that be our responsibility or will it fall to the Audit Committee? I suspect that it will fall to the Audit Committee to consider budgets that accelerate out of control."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 240603,
      "EditedText": "This is not a normal situation: we are considering emergency legislation that incurs additional expenditure. Normally, we will study legislation that forms part of the Executive programme and it will be clear where the money will come from and it will be budgeted in the annual figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 240605,
      "EditedText": "Okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 240608,
      "EditedText": "To return to the particular case, I have been told that the approximate cost of an appeal to the House of Lords of £100,000 is a conservative estimate. The cost is based on taking the case to the Lords. Can we ask for advice on whether it would be cheaper to bring the law lords to Scotland? We are talking only about five people in a room."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 240609,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it is the travelling that incurs the cost, it is the solicitors. The daily fees will be the same wherever they are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 240611,
      "EditedText": "Well, it is worth investigating, although the savings would tend to be marginal. If there are savings to be had, we would welcome that, but I am not sure that it would make a huge difference to the overall budget."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 240612,
      "EditedText": "I do not know, but surely it is a valid question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 240614,
      "EditedText": "If we get to the situation that they have in America of no win, no fee, a lot of cases might be driven by the egos and career prospects of individuals who are prepared to risk it just to increase their profile. We have seen that happen already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C240618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 240618,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph 40 of the financial memorandum says that there are likely to be fewer appeals under this legislation. In that case, appeals to the House of Lords are not likely to happen very often and there will be savings of about £40,000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 240621,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is a point to consider, although, as Kenneth reminded us, we are dealing with interim legislation. It was made clear in last week's debate that the matter will be subject to further legislation following the Millan report. Bearing in mind how long a case takes to get to the European court, by then the bill may well have been superseded. Nonetheless, we must add it to the list of points that we want to be drawn to the Executive's attention.Does anyone have any further comments on that? Is it the view of the committee that the memorandum, as it appears, contains estimated costs and savings that are reasonable, and that we are writing to the Minister for Finance with the points that have been raised?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 240623,
      "EditedText": "Because this is emergency legislation, the finance motion has been published in time for us to consider it. That may not always happen. There is no requirement in the standing orders for the motion to be published at a certain time, other than prior to stage 2; it could be published immediately prior to stage 2 or before stage 1. We may or may not have the opportunity to consider the motion in committee. The motion that we are considering today is broad and I do not think that we have any reason to object to it.The finance motion mentions \"the following expenditure payable out of the Scottish Consolidated Fund\".There is a possibility that that could be restrictive with regard to certain sections of the bill. If, for example, any amendments with financial implications were lodged, they could be ruled out before being discussed because the sections they sought to amend were not specifically referred to in the motion. My view is that the committee would not be comfortable with that. We want to make the point that, ideally, we would like an opportunity to consider the finance motion. The Executive is not obliged to put the motion before this committee or to lodge it in sufficient time for us to consider it, but we would not want discussion of perfectly legitimate amendments to be prevented at stage 2, simply because their financial implications were not covered by the finance motion. We need to be aware of that matter. While I am opening it up to discussion now, we want to be able to draw it to the Executive's attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 240627,
      "EditedText": "Would the business motion be passed within such a short time scale that we could not have a scheduled meeting? We might not even be able to hold an emergency meeting—that would give rise to concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 240628,
      "EditedText": "I have raised this topic of conversation with the Minister for Finance three times: that of his discussing with you or with the rest of us—even informally—how we can best set up clear lines of communication that will deal with these odd situations, which will undoubtedly arise. We do not pretend that the Executive, when considering its policy, will worry about a committee. When it has considered its policy, it must then consider the role of the committees and how they will be used. I get the impression that the Minister of Finance is open to offers, at least to have a general discussion about how matters with a financial implication can be seen to be coming to the committee in a reasonable form, so that the committee is perceived as able to do its job efficiently while not unnecessarily holding up the flow of work in the Parliament. You raised this, convener, last week, and we discussed it again at our informal meeting: I think that it is you who has to organise a meeting with the minister and his advisers to get his thinking about how best to approach the matter. We could then consider the matter again at a committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 240629,
      "EditedText": "I can see no reason why we should not have a standardised or new procedure whereby the motion is published at the same time as stage 1. There may be special circumstances on some occasions when the Executive will not wish to do that, but if the committee could express the expectation that that will be done, that would give us the opportunity to discuss the motion if we felt we had to. If the Executive felt that it would be impossible to do that because of special circumstances, we should be told and receive an explanation. Would that be an acceptable line to put forward when I write to the Minister of Finance?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 240630,
      "EditedText": "Would it be reasonable to put in place, for example, a cross-party sub-committee, including you, convener, which could examine—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 240633,
      "EditedText": "Not formally, because we are restricted in doing so. However, this committee will, no doubt, meet informally in various places in and around the Parliament from time to time—often purely by chance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 240635,
      "EditedText": "As members are aware, having been in the chamber last week for the debate on the business motion, and as we can see from our briefing papers, the finance motion will be taken without debate. That may or may not be because we are dealing with emergency legislation. For what it is worth, finance motions are dealt with in the same way at the House of Commons. The question is whether we want to have the opportunity to debate such motions when we think that that would benefit the Parliament. I am not making an issue of the motion that we are discussing today, which was lodged under special circumstances, but does anyone have a view on whether this committee should express an opinion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 240638,
      "EditedText": "I would be concerned if we slipped into a process in which it was assumed that finance motions were to be taken without debate. Debate should take place only when there is a genuine need for it, but there may be times when this committee or political parties wish to pursue a debate on a finance motion. I do not think that we should close off the option."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 240639,
      "EditedText": "I have slight concerns about this matter. I would be uncomfortable if we got into big debates on finance motions in the chamber, but there should be a mechanism whereby the committee can debate such motions—this is supposed to be the committee that will be expert on them or have expert advice on them. You used the word \"ajar\", convener. I think that that is the right approach. If this committee, some of its members, or you, saw a motion coming up, and felt that it raised issues or had implications, there should be an opportunity to debate it in committee rather than in the chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 240645,
      "EditedText": "If the bureau is taking a decision on whether a finance motion is open for debate in the Parliament, it would be fine if you, as convener of this committee, had the opportunity to be consulted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 240647,
      "EditedText": "It is almost a case of the standing orders being amended so that, subject to the approval of the Convener of the Finance Committee, the resolution will be taken without debate—words will have to be formulated. It means that, if this committee decides that it does not want to push a resolution out for debate, it is tough on the other members, but it is up to them to speak to us and up to us to speak to them: we are in the middle of all this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C240606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 240606,
      "EditedText": "We are really talking about best practice. There will be other bills that are vague. We must ask for as much information as possible. If a bill forms part of the legislative programme, we will get a lot of information. However, we should ask for as much as possible, taking into account the fact that in some cases we will have only best guesses. That is a matter for future bills, rather than for the bill we are considering today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.0191854+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 7 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6314,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6314,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 240567,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:47"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 240572,
      "EditedText": "I need a copy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 240573,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has another copy. It is fairly straightforward and we will want to discuss it in general terms rather than as it relates specifically to this case.Everybody now has the paperwork. This is the first time that we have had the opportunity to consider a financial resolution. Does everyone have the information at hand to refer to?It is clear that a financial resolution is required. There can be no debate about that. Does anyone want to comment on that general principle? It is also clear that costs will be associated with the bill. As members will have seen from the briefing, the figures are necessarily speculative. It is difficult to make any precise estimate of such costs. The question is whether the figures in the financial memorandum are reasonable. I invite comments on that question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 240574,
      "EditedText": "I want to make two points. I wonder about the estimates given in paragraph 36 of the financial memorandum. They are mathematically correct, but the additional costs of detaining four patients in a setting that contains as many patients as does the state hospital at Carstairs is hardly the same as the cost per patient. That cannot be a correct basis for such a calculation. That is a semantic argument but, mathematically, paragraph 36 is correct.My greater concern, however, is not about the consequences of detaining the small number of patients that we are discussing, which the memorandum covers satisfactorily. I am concerned about the consequences of the operation of the act within the criminal justice system. As Gordon Jackson and I both pointed out in the chamber, as one door closes another door opens.The fact that the legislation incorporates personality disorder into mental illness may result in individuals with a personality disorder who have committed a serious or violent criminal offence seeking detention in Carstairs, whereas they may hitherto have been detained in the prison system. Nobody can predict that that will happen, but the Executive is beginning to become aware of the fact that the change in the law may affect the court system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 240575,
      "EditedText": "The Executive may be becoming aware of that, you say?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C240585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 240585,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to monitor costs. The briefing note also suggests that there may be some savings for the police, for local authorities and for the health service. If costs are to be monitored, we should widen our scrutiny to include possible savings. The document states, quite reasonably, that it is not feasible at the moment to come up with any figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 240588,
      "EditedText": "We note that. We are not suggesting that the costs are unreasonable, but we want to keep an eye on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 240589,
      "EditedText": "My concerns are about the format of the financial memorandum, given that it is a first-off and we are all feeling our way. Rule 9.3 on page 35 of the standing orders sets out what a financial memorandum is supposed to do. I fear, however, that this document does not do quite what it should in terms of setting out costs, time scales and other information as required by the standing orders. The structure of the memorandum does not help us to assess or to judge it. I cannot tell from this document what the maximum possible cost of this measure will be to the budget. We do not know what the minimum cost will be, so that is a concern—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 240593,
      "EditedText": "Most appraisals in the public sector follow Treasury guidelines by setting out a cost-benefit analysis. We should mirror that in our work so that there is a clear structure. In this case the example of four patients has just been plucked out of the air—understandably—but what if there are more? We need to understand that, potentially, this could cost the public sector much more and therefore that the budget must be able to accommodate it. There must be a slush fund, or reserve, to accommodate the worst-case scenario that Richard outlined.The bill is a bad example, because it is so specific, but if we are to work with financial memorandums often, we have to be clearer about what we can take from the advice given by the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 240595,
      "EditedText": "It seems to me that what Andrew is saying—of course, you can speak for yourself, Andrew—is that bands would have been better than the specific figures that are given in the memorandum. Richard is suggesting something similar because he suspects that the figures are likely to be underestimates.I can see the benefits of creating parameters, but what happens if the costs begin to exceed them? Do we say that no one else is allowed into Carstairs because that will put the budget over a certain limit? There will be difficulties if we try to be as prescriptive as that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 240598,
      "EditedText": "That is why we need a cost-benefit analysis that sets out the potential savings and costs in different bands according to the best judgment of the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 240602,
      "EditedText": "We need to separate the two issues. First, there is this particular memorandum. It is fair to say that it contains reasonable assumptions, although it might have been helpful to consider a best-case and a worst-case scenario, bearing in mind that either end of that spectrum would have been just as speculative as the figures that we have in front of us. Secondly, there is a separate, more general point—raised by Andrew—about what we would expect to see in a financial memorandum. When we discuss a sum of £276,000, for example, in a budget of £15 billion, we all accept that it will be relatively easy to identify. However, when we consider bills that have financial implications of millions of pounds, or whatever threshold the committee happens to establish, we must have a more definitive indication from the Executive about where that money is coming from. If a bill has financial implications of £5 million, £10 million, £15 million or £20 million, when do we say that we want to see a very prescriptive statement about what budget that money is coming from?That relates to the more general point raised by George about our awareness of the way in which the whole budget hangs together. I take a slightly different view about the degree of detail that one might wish to go into in that budget and I have harped on about that before in the committee. If some of us want to drill down into the details of that budget to understand how the whole £15 billion fits together, we should be equipped with the information to do so. When the Executive tells us that the consequences of such and such a piece of legislation are an annual recurring cost of £25 million, from one budget or another, the committee must be in a well-informed position to say that that is a reliable assumption, rather than simply believing what the Executive says. We have to apply a certain amount of independent jurisdiction to ensure that we are comfortable with those assumptions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 240604,
      "EditedText": "We need to put on record what we expect to see in future legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 240610,
      "EditedText": "It is more than that because, in certain cases, the cost would include the transport of individuals who have to appear as witnesses, custody costs and all the rest of it. In the last two days, people with legal knowledge have told me that £100,000 is a conservative estimate and have suggested that we find a way of checking whether it would be cheaper to bring the court up occasionally. Apparently, the law lords can do other jobs at the same time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 240616,
      "EditedText": "If that is the case, this is a fair target. Five such cases a year would take the sum to more than half a million pounds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 240617,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is a legitimate question to which we can draw attention."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 240624,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased to hear what you have said, Mike. We have to have an eye on the financial implications of any measures that are introduced, but I would hate to discover that legitimate proposals to develop legislation fell at a hurdle because their consideration was barred as a result of financial implications. I am pleased to support the line of argument that you have set out, Mike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 240625,
      "EditedText": "It is a question of timing. If a motion referred only to certain sections of a bill, that would be a sign that the Executive was trying to restrict spending in other areas. We must have the opportunity to examine that. How soon before stage 2 could a motion that we were prevented from considering be published?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Sarah Davidson (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 240626,
      "EditedText": "One would normally expect it to come out in a framework whereby it would go into a business motion. It would always be open to the Parliament to amend that business motion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 240632,
      "EditedText": "For the purposes of discussion, would there be any merit in having a small group dealing with things on an emergency basis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 240634,
      "EditedText": "As happens already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 240636,
      "EditedText": "I would say obviously not in this case: we do not have enough information and the motion is straightforward and accommodating. To return to my earlier points about understanding where money comes from and how measures are paid for, we may wish to comment if money is moved from one part of the budget to another—which is not germane to hearing the case for a bill. There must be a case for debating what is happening with the money, because members of the Parliament or the Finance Committee will want to comment on where money is coming from, where it is going and whether it is adequate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6315,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 240637,
      "EditedText": "The procedural difficulty is that once a business motion is passed, as happened last week, it may not be possible to change it. A change would require a vote by the whole Parliament. It would be better if the business motion was not prescriptive when it was lodged. We might not feel that there is anything to discuss, in which case a motion could go through very quickly. If, however, the door is closed when the business motion is moved by the Minister for Parliament, it is thereafter impossible or very difficult to change it. I believe that our view should be that that door should be left ajar so that we can use it when we need to. I am not sure of the mechanics of that, but I think it means simply that when the business motion is lodged it does not mention that it will be taken without debate. Debate on it may not be scheduled, but there would be an opportunity for debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 240640,
      "EditedText": "It is really a matter for the Parliamentary Bureau. Richard is suggesting that the committee has the opportunity to discuss motions. We do already—the question is, what happens as a result?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 240642,
      "EditedText": "I made my remarks in that context. The question is whether we express a view that affects whether a resolution is discussed in the Parliament. It may be that if the Finance Committee's view is that something is fine and there is no need to debate it, it will be expected to go through on the nod, but, once it is put up for discussion, a member could say, \"Just a minute, I am not on the Finance Committee and I am not sure about this.\" The Executive would not be happy and we would not be happy. The general principle of finance motions has been discussed at every occasion. How do we ensure that we have the opportunity to express a view and avoid the door being closed on every occasion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 240643,
      "EditedText": "Could you, convener, report to the Parliamentary Bureau, whose members are the arbiters, on our view on whether a motion is a suitable—not necessarily controversial—subject for debate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 240646,
      "EditedText": "I am comfortable with that. Our point is that it should not be the general practice for a resolution to be taken without debate: that that would be acceptable in certain situations but that we would wish to have a view on whether that was the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 6315,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 240648,
      "EditedText": "Members would expect to discuss a motion with a committee, and only in exceptional circumstances would a member not have that opportunity. That, if members are comfortable with it, will be the view that we will express to the Parliamentary Bureau about general practice.Members will see from their briefing paper for this meeting, under the heading \"General approach to Financial Resolutions\",that the clerks have offered to\"prepare a paper for discussion\".Do members wish to discuss any outstanding issues about that at a future meeting? Unless there are any specific points, I suggest that we accept that proposal. I do not know how soon that may be done, but the paper could be presented at a suitable meeting in the near future. That completes the formal agenda; we will now move into an informal session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1396
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Mental Health (Public Safety and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill",
      "HeadingID": 6315,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 240649,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 10:29."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 190342,
      "EditedText": "I understand your point about having informal meetings in between the formal ones, Kate. As Michael and Johann said, we should establish that as our working method at this stage but set a date on which formally to review it. It would be helpful to assess whether the arrangement is working in three or four month's time, rather than simply to leave it open-ended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:30.3756992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 190368,
      "EditedText": "We should put on the agenda the early establishment of a clear template for proofing bills. We must have some continuity, and a mechanism would achieve that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 190370,
      "EditedText": "That would be an issue when we decide on a mechanism."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 190400,
      "EditedText": "What do they view as more important?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 190416,
      "EditedText": "Is it a one-off group established purely to respond to the Macpherson action plan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 190421,
      "EditedText": "On disability, I got the impression from Disability Scotland's presentation that a major concern was consultation and involvement in policy planning. The organisation was concerned about its input on local authority provision, which affects disabled people markedly. Perhaps we should examine the involvement of service users in the consultation process, in order to see whether the process is working effectively. I would add that to the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 190434,
      "EditedText": "Although this is not an immediate issue, I imagine that, at some point, we will need to consider transport, given that a transport consultation process is on the go just now. Disability Scotland referred to a national concessionary fare scheme—as did the STUC, I believe—and it may be appropriate to invite the Minister for Transport and the Environment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 190453,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that systems are used elsewhere in Europe. It may be worthwhile to compare the systems that are used by other Parliaments, such as the Länder Parliaments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 7 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4554,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 190332,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:03"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 190334,
      "EditedText": "Items 1 and 2 of the agenda are deferred to a later meeting and we will start with item 3, which deals with the committee's schedule of meetings. Are there any questions about the report that was circulated regarding the schedule?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 4555,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 190336,
      "EditedText": "How often the committee meets is up to the committee. My understanding is that we did not come to a firm decision on the schedule of meetings because it was difficult to make that decision until we understood how we would operate. We decided that we would have fortnightly meetings but would allow ourselves the flexibility to meet weekly if necessary. The next item on the agenda is methods of working, which will allow us to discuss whether we want meetings every week or informal meetings in Edinburgh. I am interested to hear other people's views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 190337,
      "EditedText": "I propose that we take items 3 and 4 together. It does not make much sense to discuss the schedule of meetings without discussing the methods of working. There is a problem with our schedule of formal committee meetings: I see a four-week gap between 16 November and 14 December. I understand the reason for that but, whatever we decide in the broader discussion in a moment, we have to slot in at least one meeting in that period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 190346,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether this will be addressed later, convener—you can tell me to shut up if it will be—but I would like to know whether you mean that we should tell the clerk about the general area that we would like to cover or an aspect of that area that we would like to focus on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 190355,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it would."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 190358,
      "EditedText": "No legislation will come before the committee automatically. The committee might want to discuss how it will identify the legislation that it is interested in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 190359,
      "EditedText": "Members have a copy of the legislative programme of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 190364,
      "EditedText": "I agree. All legislation requires a policy memorandum setting out any effects on equal opportunities, and we should be involved in that. One way of doing that is to look at bills as early as possible. We should be involved at the pre-legislative stage, which has begun for the education bill—that should be the first bill that we look at between now and October. We should look at all the others, but not as urgently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 190367,
      "EditedText": "The equality unit, when it is set up, is meant to equality proof all legislation. It is up to us to decide whether we consider all legislation. I do not think that we have to ask anybody else to decide what comes before the committee. When we talk about invitations I intend to suggest that we invite the equality unit to a future meeting to discuss its role and how it relates to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 190369,
      "EditedText": "As long as it is not too restrictive—there must be flexibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 190375,
      "EditedText": "One item that has been missed in the report of the Scottish Trades Union Congress briefing is sectarianism and religious discrimination, although I do not think that the STUC was the only organisation to mention it. It would be remiss of this committee not to have identified that as something that we should be alert to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 190380,
      "EditedText": "It was in my mind after last Thursday that one of the sub-groups of this committee could address domestic violence. Are there any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 190382,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we must address that issue because concerns about it were raised across the board. An issue relating to information gathering concerns the decision to exclude from the census in Scotland a question on religion, although a question will be asked on it elsewhere in the United Kingdom. I would be interested in exploring that issue and finding out where our locus would be.  From representations that I have had, I know that a number of religious groups—especially from the black and ethnic minority groups—feel strongly that they want the question to be asked. My understanding is that it was claimed that the business case for including the question was not strong enough. However, the point was made to me that the information was not being asked for because organisations were not aware of, or sensitive to, the fact that they should be identifying the specific needs of the ethnic minority community in relation to services. Because they are not asking the questions, we do not have the information that would give us a much sharper focus on where the need is.I note that later in this meeting we are to consider whether we should bring—that sounds too threatening; I should say \"invite\"—ministers to this committee. I hope that we pursue this matter with them, because I am sure that it has been raised with other MSPs. A lot of organisations feel strongly about the issue; we could intervene, but we need to know at which stage we can have an influence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 190394,
      "EditedText": "On the Macpherson report, the final date for submissions is 30 September and our next formal committee meeting is 21 September, which means that we have only next week in the interim. As you suggested, a small group could meet then. Could we identify four or five people who could spend the next week examining and researching the report? We could meet next Wednesday to discuss how to consider the report and use the meeting on 21 September to decide how the full committee should respond to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 190396,
      "EditedText": "Would it be possible to invite the Minister for Justice to the 21 September meeting? Even if the sub-group could not do a huge amount of work, it would be helpful to have the opportunity to question the minister about the decisions that have been made and about what kinds of forums it has been proposed be set up.Macpherson deals with big issues. It might be useful if a sub-group began to address them and then have a discussion in this committee. We could produce our conclusions at the end of that meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 190397,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to have the minister attend, subject to his diary commitments. With regard to our response to the Macpherson report, I suspect that a lot of work has already been done by the CRE—we could tap into that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 190399,
      "EditedText": "It has been pointed out to me that the Cabinet meets on Tuesday mornings. We will try to get the appropriate ministers to come along anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 190401,
      "EditedText": "Could we have the names of those who wish to be on the sub-group? I know that everyone is interested, but four or five people would be enough.I note that Michael McMahon, Shona Robison, Elaine Smith and Nora Radcliffe have volunteered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 190405,
      "EditedText": "So the others will come later?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 190411,
      "EditedText": "The clerks will not attend all the meetings, as there might be quite a few of them over the next couple of weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 190417,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 190425,
      "EditedText": "We should get a briefing as soon as possible; I do not think that we should decide priorities until we have had one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 190427,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 190436,
      "EditedText": "The clerk will do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C190437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 190437,
      "EditedText": "I wish to endorse Michael Matheson's comments on transport. The main worry for Disability Scotland seemed to be rail transport. I wonder whether we could get some information about the difficulties that people face at stations; that would enable us to tackle those difficulties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 190440,
      "EditedText": "I intend to circulate to all meetings—as I have done today—a list of organisations that have been in touch to ask whether they can give us briefings or provide us with information. We have already had informal presentations from some of these organisations, and we will organise further, formal presentations. Do members have any comments or requests?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 190441,
      "EditedText": "Is this a list of organisations that have provided information or ones that are offering to provide information? Would information provided be circulated to members, or would we need to opt into that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 190442,
      "EditedText": "The clerks receive correspondence during the period between committee meetings, and we are not entirely sure of the best way of handling that correspondence. We could keep members notified of every item of correspondence that we receive; members would be welcome to contact us if they want to see a particular item. Alternatively, we could list correspondence under each agenda item for each committee meeting, although that might load the committee down. It is for the committee to determine how it would like the clerks to handle correspondence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 190444,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 190446,
      "EditedText": "Can I confirm that we will at some point have a briefing from COSLA and the Equality Network together? When will that take place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 190447,
      "EditedText": "I do not know—as soon as we can organise it, which will depend on people's diary commitments. It may not be a joint briefing. The Equality Network briefing will take place as soon as we can set it up. We will probably have that briefing before the one from COSLA. The Scottish Executive is to appoint a head of the equality unit and I would like that person to brief us on how we could work together. We will leave it to Martin to organise those briefings as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 190448,
      "EditedText": "We talked about devising a template for examining legislation. How will that happen? Do we have to make suggestions or will we get a paper that we can comment on? Will we be given a starting point, or do we provide that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 190457,
      "EditedText": "With providing what exists?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 190458,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 190462,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Those sub-groups should be decided by next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 190466,
      "EditedText": "So what sub-groups have we agreed on?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 190469,
      "EditedText": "The four main issues are clear and we have focused on them so far. However, a range of other issues relate to equal opportunities, including religion, religious discrimination and hostility towards religion. That is an area that we could explore, but I am not sure that I want to prioritise it above others. It could be dealt with after the first four areas are established. Other issues relate to age, the role of carers and people's ability to access services. If we are agreed on the four main areas, we might want to consider subsequent priorities at the next stage. I agree that there are significant issues to raise in relation to religious discrimination, but I would like us to consider those in a subsequent group of priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 190470,
      "EditedText": "How does the committee feel about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 190365,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is wrong that there is no requirement for legislation to come to this committee as a matter of course. I assume that there would never be an objection to legislation coming to this committee when we request it, but we should formalise a procedure. That has to be put in tablets of stone; we should not leave it to chance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 190381,
      "EditedText": "The issues of data collection and monitoring span all groups and may be addressed by the whole committee. Those issues were raised in most of the briefings that we had. We may be able to make progress on those matters, which could quickly raise issues that we do not yet know about.The point was well made that, because the data collection and monitoring procedures are in many respects flawed, we do not have a lot of the information that we require to make decisions about what we are going to do. Remedying that should be an early priority, especially because the problem spans all the groups that we are talking about. That would prevent the committee from being perceived as being more interested in one area than it is in another, which would be a good start."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 190409,
      "EditedText": "Will the clerks facilitate the sub-group's meeting? Will we get our diaries out at the end of this meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 190435,
      "EditedText": "Would it be helpful for members to have an indicative timetable for legislation, so that we can take on board Malcolm's point about early intervention? That would highlight—provisionally—particular pieces of legislation at particular meetings of this committee. I am not clear in my own mind when each piece of legislation is likely to be introduced. While dates might not be finalised, they will probably be indicative, and it would be helpful for us to timetable that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 7 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4554,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4554,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Kate MacLean): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 190333,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the second meeting of the Equal Opportunities Committee. The committee has been busy during the recess and has been briefed by many organisations. A paper on the briefings is on the agenda for today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 190338,
      "EditedText": "That is an anomaly that has come up in the programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 190339,
      "EditedText": "I think that we need to be flexible. We have a huge amount of work and there is high expectation about what the committee can do. We are in uncharted waters and it would be a good idea to block off spaces in our diaries as time that we will devote to the Equal Opportunities Committee. My concern about formalising our arrangements is that, inevitably, the work would expand into that time—we would meet weekly and might not be able to do the kinds of things that we have spoken about, such as meeting organisations and visiting places. If we discover that we are being overcome with work and cannot examine the work of the other committees as we discussed, we can at any stage review our schedule and methods. I would like to have time in which we can meet organisations. Time is tight for committees generally. We are unable to meet on 30 November, as we had planned, and we should discuss what we will do about that. At a later point, we should examine how effective we have been with the time that we have been given and amend our schedule accordingly. I would not like to be told at the end of November that we can meet only fortnightly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 190340,
      "EditedText": "That ties in with my thoughts about the committee. We have two roles: to consider the Parliament's legislation; and to be pro-active in examining issues that have been raised by the groups that briefed us during the recess. I hoped that we could have formal meetings every fortnight and, every other week, split the committee into smaller groups that would consider and report back on specific areas of our remit and include people from the Equal Opportunities Commission, the Commission for Racial Equality, Disability Scotland and other specialists. That would mean that we were not driven only by the legislative programme and could diversify into other areas. I was going to introduce that as a topic for discussion when we turned to methods of working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 190343,
      "EditedText": "We should do that. Is six months a reasonable period, or is that not long enough?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C190344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 190344,
      "EditedText": "It would be sensible to review our arrangements before December, which is when the next dates will be set."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 190345,
      "EditedText": "That sounds sensible. We will come to our work programme later, but it would be helpful if members would tell the clerk at some point today what specific issues they are interested in for the sub-committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 190347,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful at first to set up a group to deal with each of the main areas that we are going to cover—we might have four groups dealing with four areas—and then to specialise within those areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 190352,
      "EditedText": "There are two gaps—the October break and the one that covers St Andrew's day on 30 November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 190353,
      "EditedText": "I take it that everybody is agreed that we should try to fit in another meeting. I suggest that the clerk and I try to find a date in the committee timetable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 190356,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone have any questions or comments on the paper on item 4, which is on methods of working?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 190357,
      "EditedText": "Will all legislation be brought to the attention of the committee or do we have actively to seek it out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C190362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 190362,
      "EditedText": "As some of the contributors to the informal briefing sessions suggested, there is a danger that, at first sight, some legislation does not seem to have equal opportunities implications; it is only during implementation that it is discovered to have considerable disadvantages for certain sectors of society. We should not assume that some legislation raises no equality issues. If we are keen to mainstream equality, we ought to be in a position to have sight of almost all legislation coming before the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 190371,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that all legislation should be put on the agenda so that we could decide whether there are relevant issues. I do not know how the committees are publicised to the wider public, but presumably those who know how to use the web can find out what is on our agenda. That would at least flag up to interested organisations the fact that we intend to consider particular legislation so that they could make us aware of their concerns before we looked at it. We do not have a monopoly of wisdom. If we were in the habit of having legislation come here, people who had an interest in that legislation would ensure that we were appropriately briefed. Some legislation self-evidently will not have issues for us but it can be surprising where issues arise. On that point, I suspect that it will not be possible for the committee to look at or have influence on the emergency legislation that is going through Parliament. However, it has been said that there will be an early review; we should say that, at that stage, we will consider whether the legislation has equal opportunities implications or whether it particularly affects women, for example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 190372,
      "EditedText": "We must look at all legislation but, although this might complicate things and be difficult to manage, we must in the long run get involved at as early a stage as possible—at green and white paper stages. We have had a lot of submissions on the green paper on housing, because it does not address racial equality issues. If we can get involved at the green paper stage, the work should be done before we get the actual legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 190374,
      "EditedText": "We have had briefings in the summer and the legislative programme obviously forms part of our work programme. Does anybody have any questions on the paper or anything to add?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 190378,
      "EditedText": "That is up to the committee to decide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 190387,
      "EditedText": "With regard to race, are there other areas that the committee should address? Malcolm suggested that we consider the Macpherson report. That would be the most sensible matter for a sub-group to examine. The report raised many issues that were not covered in the Executive's response and which this committee might want to flag up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 190389,
      "EditedText": "We would need to set up a sub-group now to address the subject. I am happy to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 190393,
      "EditedText": "That would be possible. A report is being prepared for the Procedures Committee, because the problem was raised at the conveners liaison committee. There should be no problem in bringing that report to this committee. I am concerned about that issue, but sub-groups are allowed to have advisers. The groups will be informal and will not involve the official report or the clerks; they will go out and gather information. Until we get things sorted out, I see no problem with inviting on to the sub-groups anyone that we feel would be useful as an adviser. It is important that we have outside input from the start. We cannot afford to wait for months while the problem is sorted out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 190395,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we ask the CRE whether it can release someone to work with that sub-group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 190402,
      "EditedText": "Are members happy with that arrangement? Does anyone feel left out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 190403,
      "EditedText": "Are we talking about setting up four groups today? I would like to join this sub-group, but there are other things that I want to do as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 190404,
      "EditedText": "Because of the urgency of this issue and the deadline for submissions, I think that we will establish only this one today—I do not think that we need to establish the other sub-groups now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 190406,
      "EditedText": "Members should indicate which areas they are interested in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 190407,
      "EditedText": "I would like to volunteer for this sub-group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 190408,
      "EditedText": "We will add Malcolm Chisholm's name to the list as well. Could members nominate one of the five members of the sub-group as a reporter who would officially report back, or is there a volunteer? Michael McMahon is volunteering. Are members happy with that? Good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 190412,
      "EditedText": "In terms of the timetable, are we assuming that the sub-groups will meet every other Tuesday morning, although they can meet at other times as well?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 190413,
      "EditedText": "Meeting every other Tuesday morning would be the minimum."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 190419,
      "EditedText": "On the work programme, disability has not yet been mentioned. Do members want to raise specific points on which we should establish a sub-group? So far, we have highlighted domestic violence, the Macpherson report, data collection—which will be a matter for the full committee—and religious bigotry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 190422,
      "EditedText": "Are you referring specifically to consultation with local government?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 190424,
      "EditedText": "Last week, I met representatives of COSLA who hope to brief the committee. They have done a lot on that subject and it would be useful if we could work with them on it.We have not covered gay, lesbian and transgender issues. I am aware that we have not had a briefing from any of the relevant organisations, although we have spoken to the STUC and the Equal Opportunities Commission. I hope that we will be able to arrange a briefing for the earliest possible committee meeting. Are there any issues that members wish to raise, in terms of establishing a sub-group?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 190428,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that this committee could send an invitation to every minister, as every minister should—and probably will—come before us at some point to answer questions on equality issues. The suggestion is that we send our first invitation to Jim Wallace and Jackie Baillie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 190430,
      "EditedText": "It is agreed that we will invite those two ministers to the earliest meeting, and that we will discuss, as issues come up, which other ministers to invite. It is also agreed that we will arrange a briefing with COSLA, which was keen to come. Given that local government spends 40 or 50 per cent of the Scottish block, it would be useful to get a general briefing from COSLA. The clerk will also invite one or more of the organisations that deal with gay, lesbian and transgender issues to give us the earliest possible briefing, so that we can include those issues in our work programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 190433,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we can do that, but I think that that would be part of Michael Matheson's suggestion that we establish a process whereby the process of writing to organisations and asking for comments is triggered automatically when legislation is introduced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 190438,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that that work has already been done. We can try to obtain the information and circulate it to members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 190450,
      "EditedText": "The clerks can advise the committee which consultation papers, green papers, white papers and bills are coming through the system only as we are made aware of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 190452,
      "EditedText": "We will have a paper on that at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 190454,
      "EditedText": "We will bring something back to the next committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 190455,
      "EditedText": "Will there be any papers for the group that is to consider the Macpherson report, or should we supply our own?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 190456,
      "EditedText": "All committee members should have a copy of the Macpherson report. They should also have a copy of the Executive's response. Comments or papers will have to be provided by other organisations, but Martin will try to help with that as much as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C190459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 190459,
      "EditedText": "Kate, will you leave it until the next meeting to ask members to indicate an interest in the four working groups that you mentioned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 190460,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful if members indicate to Martin, in writing, a couple of areas in which they would be interested. We could then decide at the next meeting what will happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 190461,
      "EditedText": "I shall clarify what will happen for the next two or three meetings. Next week, and possibly more often, the Macpherson sub-group will meet. That sub-group should report to the committee at 10 o'clock so that we can call others halfway through the meeting on 21 September—otherwise, the sub-group will be unable to report to the committee. The meeting of 21 September will then be taken up by discussion of the action plan in response to the Macpherson report. Are we aiming to have the other sub-groups up and running by 28 September?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 190464,
      "EditedText": "Initially, sub-groups were envisaged only in the four main areas. Michael mentioned religious bigotry, but I do not know whether he wanted a sub-group to be set up for that as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 190468,
      "EditedText": "And religious bigotry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 190474,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed? Committee members should inform Martin as soon as possible which areas they are interested in. That concludes the committee's business. Thank you for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 190475,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:06."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 190423,
      "EditedText": "One of the issues that I raised at the briefing with Disability Scotland was community care planning, although the organisation felt that there was a wider issue of consultation in a number of areas. It may be that the issue that we want to examine—and that we could address with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities—is whether disabled people are appropriately consulted on the community care planning process or on the on-going delivery of services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 190465,
      "EditedText": "I would, as I think that it is a large area that needs a lot of study. Many organisations need to be contacted for evidence and advice. It would be appropriate for a sub-group to be established on that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 190335,
      "EditedText": "Initially, there was an understanding that the committee would meet weekly. A number of members blocked off spaces in their diaries because of that. On what basis and on whose decision was the schedule changed to have us meet fortnightly?The papers that were presented to us this morning show the amount of work that the committee has to carry out—a lot of work is detailed in the paper on the schedule of meetings, for example. The organisations that briefed us during the recess said that they believed that this committee would be one of the busiest. It is strange, then, that we should meet fortnightly. I would like to open up the issue to discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 190388,
      "EditedText": "May I remind members that the deadline for responses to the action plan is 30 September. I would have thought it appropriate for this committee to input into the process before the deadline. The time scale is tight, but we should make every effort to submit our view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 190341,
      "EditedText": "I agree—your comments pre-empted what I was going to say. The key word is flexibility. To meet formally every week might not be the best way of dealing with some of the issues in our wide remit. We have to look at different ways of working and they should not be set in stone. Meeting weekly would serve little purpose if we were to become bogged down and unable to involve other people in our discussions. Equally, if working in small, informal committees becomes undesirable, we would have to review that method.If we set out our working methods from the outset and are inflexible about them, we will create problems for ourselves. We have to overcome that and allow ourselves a chance to bed in. We must try different ways of working; they may be unsuccessful, but they have to be given a chance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 190349,
      "EditedText": "I will ask the clerk about Malcolm's point about there being a four-week period with no meetings. Martin, would it be possible to sort that out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 190350,
      "EditedText": "There is the October break and the St Andrew's day holiday, which falls on a day on which the committee would have otherwise met. There are some difficulties if the committee wants to arrange another meeting in that period, because members of this committee are also members of other committees and we have to avoid clashes. Possible dates would be on Wednesday afternoons or on Tuesday afternoons—possibly Tuesday 23 November or Tuesday 7 December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 190351,
      "EditedText": "That is too late; the four-week gap is between the beginning of October and the beginning of November."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 190354,
      "EditedText": "It would be logical to meet on 23 November, which would bring the meeting forward a week. Committee members have blocked off that time anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 190360,
      "EditedText": "As far as we know it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 190361,
      "EditedText": "It is intended that the equality unit will, when it is set up, look at the equal opportunities implications of legislation. We should decide on areas that we want to look at as well and on the organisations that we want to engage in consultation about legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 190363,
      "EditedText": "The issue is how we manage that. I suspect that we will be quite dependent on other organisations to help us to scrutinise legislation, although of course we cannot abdicate responsibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 190373,
      "EditedText": "We should bring to our next meeting a method of getting involved from the start—perhaps we could have a small paper on that. Johann spoke about engaging different groups. We are still putting together a list of organisations to write to. In the letter that we send, we can say how those organisations can have access to information and contact the committee with comments on specific legislation, which would then be brought to the committee for us to look at."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C190377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 190377,
      "EditedText": "Are we planning to prioritise our work programme or are we going to try to distribute the spread of work across the committee so that we encompass all the areas quickly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 190379,
      "EditedText": "The public assumes that we will at least do work in the four main areas mentioned here: gender, race, disability and sexual orientation. As I am sure the convener will say when we come to the item on invitations, we need to have a briefing from gay and lesbian groups. If—at least to begin with—we have four groups, those groups should have general discussions but should also focus on a particular issue. The group looking at racial equality would want to look at the Macpherson report, for example, and other issues would follow from that. I think that we are all slightly daunted by the size of our agenda, so we should have groups to deal with each of the areas and those groups could start by focusing on a particular issue within its area. I wish to raise the matter of domestic violence, partly because of last week's debate on the subject, which a journalist called inspiring. This committee ought to take hold of the domestic violence agenda because, although the Justice and Home Affairs Committee is proposing that the law on interdicts be amended, it has a limited remit on that issue. The minister with responsibility for the strategy to tackle violence against women is the equality minister Jackie Baillie. Because the debate was inspiring—it was probably the best one that this Parliament has had since 6 May—we gained a great deal of momentum and we should build on that. The group examining gender issues should carry that agenda forward, because there is a concern that we do not have an holistic strategy to address all aspects in a broad way. I would like the gender group to address that agenda and ensure that we make quick progress, which is clearly what the Parliament wanted last Thursday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 190383,
      "EditedText": "We could decide to invite an appropriate minister and ask questions on that matter.Would a sub-group like to examine data collection, or should the whole committee do it? The committee can ask the Executive to produce proposals on how there could be more consistency in data collection. That may be preferable to a sub-group reporting to the committee on how bad the situation is because, as Shona said, we have already heard from every group that we met during the recess that the situation is bad."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 190384,
      "EditedText": "I support what Shona said. It would be good if the whole committee dealt with this matter. Many people could be questioned; it is not difficult for those involved to collect the data, but the reality is that they do not do it.There are many relevant people, particularly within the Scottish Executive, whose remit is data collection. It applies to many areas of our work, and we need to get moving on it. It cannot be difficult to make progress—it is a matter of demanding answers and creating momentum. We do not need much research on this issue: we just need to put pressure on people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 190385,
      "EditedText": "We should make a request.Does anyone else have any comments on other areas that we should address?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C190390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 190390,
      "EditedText": "Another area that we could make quick progress on, because we already hold powers to do something about it, is ensuring that all public bodies fulfil their equal opportunities duties—it was distressing to hear at our briefings that they do not always do so. We can take a lead on that and ensure that all bodies that are accountable to us adhere to good practice and good equal opportunities principles.Linked to that issue is the establishment of support processes to ensure that minority groups participate appropriately in public bodies. The issue is wider than ethnic minority participation; it relates to minority participation in general. Women are often under-represented on public bodies, as are the disabled. Our concern is minority interests in general. We can move quickly on that and be seen to be effective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 190391,
      "EditedText": "Some of the organisations referred to the lack of equality in appointments. The committee may want to raise that matter with the appropriate minister and ask what steps, if any, have been taken to ensure that fairer appointments are made to public bodies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4557,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 190410,
      "EditedText": "We will do as much as we can to help to organise the meeting, but it will depend on the clashes that the five members have with other groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4557,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 190414,
      "EditedText": "So this sub-group will meet next Tuesday morning, although it might need to meet at other times?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 190415,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 190418,
      "EditedText": "That was the suggestion, as it would give us a week to go through the papers. We could then meet next week to discuss our proposals and to formalise a paper to bring to the full committee the following week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 190420,
      "EditedText": "When I mentioned domestic violence, my concern was that our strategy should be broad and should deal with violence against women, although domestic violence is part of that. It is important that we devise a holistic strategy—that is what a lot of people are telling us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 190426,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but it is agreed that we will set up a group once we have had that briefing. Are members happy with the work programme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 190429,
      "EditedText": "We have identified that we want to see Jim Wallace at an early point about the Macpherson report, but we also want to see him about the broader issue of how legislation is put together in relation to equal opportunities. It is important to find out from Jackie Baillie—or the appropriate person responsible for equalities—how it is proposed to intervene in other departments. We need to find out what structures have been set up to ensure that an awareness of equalities issues is written into departmental processes at the very earliest stage—as Malcolm said—before legislation comes before committees. We will want to address specifics on policy matters, but the broad process that people who are responsible for equalities are planning to use when looking at other departments is also important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C190431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 190431,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm mentioned education as a priority—perhaps we should invite the Minister for Children and Education sooner rather than later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 190432,
      "EditedText": "As you rightly said, Kate, we will be dependent on outside experts for a lot of our work on proofing legislation. Would it be possible to write to the bodies that we have heard from—particularly the Equal Opportunities Commission, the Commission for Racial Equality and Disability Scotland—for their views or responses to the education bill? We could use that as a starting point, as it would be daft to bypass them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Ministers",
      "HeadingID": 4558,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ID": 4558,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 190439,
      "EditedText": "Transport affects various groups, and there is a women's dimension to it, particularly relating to women's safety and the fact that women are more likely than men to use public transport. We should consider the issue from that perspective, too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 190443,
      "EditedText": "Most of the organisations that have sent information have already sent it to members of the committee as well. Some organisations offer briefings. I think that it would be sufficient for us to be notified of the correspondence that has been received and for members to get in touch with the clerks if they wish to see a particular item. That would be better than having everything sent out, which would become unwieldy. Are members happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 190445,
      "EditedText": "That concludes the business of the committee—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 190449,
      "EditedText": "From listening to today's discussion, I think that Martin will provide something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 190451,
      "EditedText": "My point echoes Michael's point—we need a checklist to guide us on considering legislation. How do we derive that checklist? It is fine for us to say that we want one, but how do we get it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9319583+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4559,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 190467,
      "EditedText": "Those that I have noted are to deal with race, gender, disability and sexual orientation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 190472,
      "EditedText": "There is an element of crossover between religious discrimination and race discrimination. The CRE raised the issue of religious discrimination, as did the STUC when it was dealing with race discrimination. We would not need a separate sub-group on religious discrimination if the sub-group on racial equality considered the issue in conjunction with race."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9475872+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Methods of Working and Legislative Programme ",
      "HeadingID": 4556,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ID": 4556,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 190366,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm mentioned the policy memorandum attached to a bill. The first bill is the emergency legislation and there is a mention of equal opportunities, although it is limited. We need to have a proper mechanism and some type of proofing system. A workable mechanism could be developed in consultation with organisations such as the Equal Opportunities Commission and the Commission for Racial Equality. My concern is that we could start to look at legislation without having a template of what we want to address, which would mean that we do not have continuity in our consideration from one bill to the next. Until we have a proper mechanism, it will be difficult to consider each bill properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 190376,
      "EditedText": "It is included under the CRE's briefing. I agree that it is something that we have to look at."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 190386,
      "EditedText": "The committee should address religious bigotry, which Michael McMahon mentioned; we should incorporate it into our programme. I am not sure whether we should establish a sub-committee on it, but there is an expectation that this committee will address it and I support that view. I am open to ideas on the way in which we can make progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 190392,
      "EditedText": "At the informal meeting we discussed the issue of co-opting on to committees. There was a broad view that co-opting to this committee, and possibly to others, will be required. Can we fit into our work programme a briefing on that? How do we make progress on co-opting members, and what action would be required? I know that you were informed that the Scotland Act 1998 may need to be amended before members can be co-opted. If that is the case, could we have the appropriate input from civil servants as to how we achieve that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 4557,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ID": 4557,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 190398,
      "EditedText": "At the previous formal meeting, you suggested inviting along the two ministers who are chairing the two working groups on specific aspects of racial discrimination and equal opportunities. We could discuss how our committee can work with them, how we can ensure clear lines of communications and how we establish what their remit is and the role that our committee will play. If we have the Minister for Justice here to discuss the Macpherson report and the action plan, it may be worthwhile pursuing those other matters at the same time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 190471,
      "EditedText": "It is all down to personal perceptions. I know what Johann is saying, but ultimately the decision is one for the committee to make. I see religious bigotry as a priority issue and believe that it should be addressed at an early opportunity. I also believe that the establishment of this Equal Opportunities Committee has led to the expectation that we would seek to address that issue. When we have established the four key areas, the likelihood is that there will be a continual turnaround of work in those areas. The question then arises whether to include the issue of religious bigotry in one of those areas, so that it would be addressed by one of the sub-groups. I am conscious of the fact that the sub-committees will examine certain issues, and that those issues will continue to expand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 190473,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that, but I would not want us to go ahead with the four sub-groups before we considered whether to have other sub-groups. I would prefer religious discrimination in itself to be the subject for a sub-group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:43.1002479+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "External Organisations and Other Correspondence",
      "HeadingID": 4559,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 4559,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 190463,
      "EditedText": "I am a bit confused. Could you confirm the sub-groups in which we are being asked to express an interest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:51.2483959+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 1030
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-07T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Schedule of Meetings ",
      "HeadingID": 4555,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4555,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 190348,
      "EditedText": "It might be more logical to consider sub-committees when we deal with the work programme. Once we see what the work programme will be, we will know what sub-committees we will have to set up in order to take the work of the committee forward. According to the informal briefing paper, if we set up ad hoc sub-committees around all the areas that we have examined so far, we will have five or six of them. That might not be the best use of our time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 1 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18714,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 622781,
      "EditedText": "I welcome members of the Standards Committee to our first meeting since the parliamentary recess. I also welcome Lewis Macdonald, who is observing the meeting. If he wishes to speak, we would welcome that. I should point out to observers that item 3 on the agenda will be taken in private session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statement of Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 622785,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for your contribution Lewis. I can certainly confirm that there was no proposal to launch any investigation. However, as you have raised the issue, I should say that I am concerned about Aberdeen City Council. I am told by its chief executive that the information that I was given about the council is not correct. I have asked him to send me the details from his point of view, and I am still waiting to hear from him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statement of Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 622787,
      "EditedText": "That is not what I am saying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 622802,
      "EditedText": "Frequency of publication is a matter for the Parliament as a whole to decide, but the most practical arrangement would be to publish the full document annually. The internet version of the register is updated instantly, as is the loose-leaf version, which is kept in the office of the clerk for public inspection. The annual publication represents a snapshot taken at the time of publication—that is also the Westminster system. Mr McNulty mentioned the manner in which remuneration is recorded, which is regulated by the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999—the legislation that covers members' interests and sets out the requirements. It might be difficult to change the legislation with immediate effect, but members could consider replacement legislation for the interim members' interests order after they consider the code of conduct."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 622804,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should discuss that with item 3—the report on the initial registration of members' interests—because the details of how people are registering interests are relevant to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 622809,
      "EditedText": "That is a sensible suggestion and I think that we should act on it. Are we agreed? Good.Now we must agree the terms of the draft foreword. Has everyone had a chance to read the draft? The draft is a matter for Sir David, but it has been put before us out of courtesy. Are the terms agreed? They are agreed.Finally, do we agree that I should lodge a motion at the earliest opportunity to seek the Parliament's agreement to annual publication of the register? That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 622811,
      "EditedText": "As soon as we can arrange it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 622812,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to item 3, which will be discussed in private session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 622815,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask a question first. If people had wanted to know what we were doing today, could they have used the internet to access briefing papers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 622819,
      "EditedText": "May I suggest that we return to that point at the end of the meeting, Mike? The important thing is to make progress and if we make substantial progress today, perhaps we can discuss the issue in a few weeks' time. For my part, I would prefer to publish the whole code of conduct, but that depends on how long the process will take."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C622821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 622821,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that. It does not make much sense to put out a draft code bit by bit. A draft code is only a draft code and I am not in favour of dripping parts of such a draft into the public domain. I would rather put out a final draft."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 622822,
      "EditedText": "We should publish in full as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 622823,
      "EditedText": "I have no objection to bits and pieces of the code being made available on the internet as we discuss them. We should put the final draft out formally and invite comments on it at some stage, but there is no reason to keep the process secret."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 622824,
      "EditedText": "I agree, but if the committee feels that we should wait until we have a finished document, that is fair enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 622828,
      "EditedText": "Is that the general view of the committee?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 622832,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Des. Most of us would agree with what the CSG tried to do, but one issue on which I take a different view is paid lobbying. I will be pushing hard to have lobbyists registered. That is different from what the CSG proposed. We must discuss the matter, and we will. The framework that the CSG put in place was quite good, by and large, and we must pay attention to it, but at the end of the day this Parliament will make the final decisions, not the CSG."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 622835,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph by paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 622838,
      "EditedText": "I agree. Do members prefer, \"The Scottish Parliament strives to be\", or, \"commits itself to being\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 622846,
      "EditedText": "We would wish members to act with integrity in their private and public lives, so that change to the text need not cause concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 622847,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with that. We will remove the final three words."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 622851,
      "EditedText": "We hope that they would, Adam, but we cannot expect that they will."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 622857,
      "EditedText": "We cannot disagree with integrity. However, we could insert a full stop after \"do\". I do not see how anyone could object to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 622861,
      "EditedText": "We all agree on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 622864,
      "EditedText": "Are you suggesting that it should instead read, \"the way in which they behave in their relationships with their constituents and in Parliament\"?Is everyone happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 622870,
      "EditedText": "No, it is a good point. The clerk has passed me a suggestion that we include another sentence, which reads, \"The code also provides advice to members in relation to conduct.\"Are members happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 622874,
      "EditedText": "On reflection I would agree with that. It is very hard to devise a code of conduct that includes rules that cover all circumstances. If we tried to do that we would end up by enshrining everything in formal rules. The process might then become unmanageable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C622891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 622891,
      "EditedText": "Should we not say in the introduction that the code of conduct is developing and that we are at the forefront of the process of setting standards for public life in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622892",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 622892,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point. Shall we take that on board?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 622893,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 622895,
      "EditedText": "Yes.Are there any other comments? Are we happy with the first two paragraphs on that page? Can we move to the last paragraph of the introduction?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 622901,
      "EditedText": "There should be a sentence requiring MSPs to sign a statement to say that they have read the code of conduct on election, or once a year, so that nobody can say later, \"I didnae read that bit.\" As we are putting so much time and effort into drafting this code, we should require MSPs to read it. Even if members do not read it, we need them to sign something stating that they have read it. It should be a requirement that they sign something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 622903,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 622904,
      "EditedText": "I quite like \"underpins\" because the code talks about the ethos of what we are about. It is slightly more appropriate to use the word underpins than to make a statement of intent. The code underpins the whole work of the Parliament and how members will conduct themselves here and in their constituencies. It is about an ethos rather than just a guideline."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 622905,
      "EditedText": "Some members believe that this paragraph should be clearer. Karen is suggesting that we leave underpins in. Do we want to leave underpins?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 622909,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Members would sign a statement every four years—after election—and if members came in after a by-election they, too, would be required to sign a statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 622912,
      "EditedText": "The second sentence sounds a bit clumsy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 622913,
      "EditedText": "Shall we remove it altogether?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 622914,
      "EditedText": "We could take that line out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 622916,
      "EditedText": "If we take up the suggestion that members must sign up to a code of conduct, I wonder if we should revise that section to make that fact more explicit. We could include the words, \"Members will be required to sign a document that indicates their agreement to the set of principles.\" That would set the tone for the relationship between the Parliament and the people. We need to make it more positive. It needs to be clear that people are signing up and that the code and these principles will set the tone for the relationship between the member and his constituents and the Parliament and the people of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 622917,
      "EditedText": "That is a good suggestion. The next paragraph has the heading \"Public Duty.\" We are considering the two sentences under that heading. Are members happy with \"Members have a duty to uphold the law\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 622919,
      "EditedText": "We are the legislators—if we cannot uphold the law, who can? Is everyone happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 622920,
      "EditedText": "Can we take a raincheck on that and come back to it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 622931,
      "EditedText": "Why is the word \"residents\" used? Normally we would talk about electors rather than residents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 622932,
      "EditedText": "Is it not because the word is all-inclusive? We represent everyone within the community. Children do not vote. Lunatics do not vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 622934,
      "EditedText": "Is it just the word \"residents\" that you are not happy with?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 622936,
      "EditedText": "That is true. We should change that word."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 622938,
      "EditedText": "\"People\" is a more neutral word. The text would read: \"Members have a duty to be accessible to the people of the areas for which they have been elected to serve\". Are we agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 622940,
      "EditedText": "Members have a duty to make themselves accessible, rather than to be accessible. The onus is on the elected person. I am a bit unclear about the last part of the second sentence. Does it clearly express the expectation that we have of members?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 622945,
      "EditedText": "That is the third flagged-up issue. We move on to selflessness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C622948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 622948,
      "EditedText": "What about the political party to which you belong?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ID": 2140,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 622952,
      "EditedText": "That is an interesting point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 622953,
      "EditedText": "Can I ask where that wording comes from? Is it part of Nolan, or does it come from the CSG?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 622955,
      "EditedText": "If it is Nolan, I think that we should accept it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 622963,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should include it, or at least flag it up as an issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 622964,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we should flag it up as an issue."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 622978,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I understand but, for the sentence to make sense, I think that we need to insert the words \"that they do so\" at the end."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 622979,
      "EditedText": "It would then read: \"They will give reasons for their decisions and restrict information only when the wider public interest clearly demands that they do so.\" Is that okay?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 622983,
      "EditedText": "The code of conduct focuses clearly on the behaviour and conduct of MSPs. We are trying to give them guidance about what they should be doing. I think that we are agreed that the predilection should be to be open in everything that we do. All that the code of conduct is saying is that, on occasions, when we feel that we cannot be as open as we would like, we have to give a reason."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 622984,
      "EditedText": "I think that what Des is saying is that tensions are creeping in, in terms both of our duties as individual MSPs and of the wider duty of the Parliament and the Executive in their decision making. The second sentence of the paragraph shows that conflict clearly. While we are open with our constituents and do what we can for them, decisions about the wider public interest will, by and large, be a matter for the Executive and not for individual MSPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 622987,
      "EditedText": "It is not clear to me how an individual MSP should behave, regardless of whether they are in the Executive, and regardless of any other job that they do. The code of conduct says that members\"will be as open as possible about all the decisions and actions they take. They will give reasons for their decisions and restrict information only when the wider public interest clearly demands\".I understand what Karen Gillon means about confidentiality, but I thought that the next sentence dealt with that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622989",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 622989,
      "EditedText": "The paragraph makes perfect sense to me with the omission of the second line. Without that, it says everything that needs to be said about openness. I do not believe that that second line is necessary. If that line were removed, committee members' confusion would be lifted immediately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C622990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 622990,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 622993,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed that the second sentence should be removed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 622996,
      "EditedText": "If it is causing confusion, we must consider the paragraph again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 622999,
      "EditedText": "That is a translation. I suspect that it refers to public office, when people such as the head of a health board make individual decisions. Members' responsibility concerns the decision-making process rather than the decisions, which are made by Parliament. Their responsibility is probably better framed in the second sentence than in the first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 623003,
      "EditedText": "We could combine those paragraphs as \"Openness and Responsibility\". Shall we combine them? Okay.Are there comments on the paragraph under the heading of \"Accountability\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 623005,
      "EditedText": "Is being an MP an office rather than someone who holds office?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 623006,
      "EditedText": "We could come back to responsibility and accountability with a different draft."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 623009,
      "EditedText": "I am not 100 per cent sure that the second use of \"members\" in the same sentence is the best way of putting it. Could we say \"the integrity of the Parliament\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 470.0,
      "ContributionID": 623011,
      "EditedText": "I suggest \"in the integrity of the Parliament and individual members\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 623012,
      "EditedText": "Are we agreed? Okay.We have a paragraph with the heading:\"Guidance on the Code of Conduct\":\"The sections which follow have been developed in line with these key principles and provide additional information on how the principles will be interpreted and enforced in practice. No written information can provide for all circumstances\"—we talked about that earlier—\"when in doubt members should seek the advice of the Standards Committee\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 623014,
      "EditedText": "Possibly \"seek the advice of the clerk to the Standards Committee\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 623020,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is an appropriate suggestion. Should we look at what we have done again when we return at the start of the next meeting? Okay. The next meeting is in a fortnight's time, in the same slot. Does anyone else have anything to say before I close the meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 623021,
      "EditedText": "Can I make a request to commence the meeting at 10 am rather than 9.30? I do not think that the meeting will be terribly long, but that would make life easier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 623028,
      "EditedText": "We will say 9.30."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statement of Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18715,
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      "ID": 18715,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 622783,
      "EditedText": "Your statement raised a number of issues about which all members of the committee are concerned. We are all aware of the situation at the Westminster Parliament and we are keen to avoid the same thing happening in Scotland.I endorse the views of the consultative steering group. Registering lobbyists would give them a kind of legitimacy, which is not necessarily helpful.Agencies or areas may employ someone to be based at the Parliament to co-ordinate their activities, which raises a slightly different issue from that of lobbying. We must have a full and frank discussion about what lobbying is if we are not to be sidelined. I know my local area and I know how people in Lanarkshire can unite to present their views to Parliament. That is something positive—it is different from professional lobbying by organisations that represent companies and seek access, favourably or otherwise, to ministers or to MSPs. The remit of the Parliament is to be accessible to members of the public. I hope that none of my constituents would feel that it was necessary to go to a professional lobbying organisation to get access to me. That has more to do with what MSPs do than with what lobbyists do. If we make ourselves accessible, we will remove the need for lobbyists. Because this Parliament is new, it has the opportunity to change the way in which things have always been done. We can make a real difference by letting the public have the access that they never had before to us and to our proceedings. That should lead to the demise of lobbyists, but we must prove to the people of Scotland that that can be achieved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statement of Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18715,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 622788,
      "EditedText": "Can I just clarify what you are saying? The paper in front of us does not show this to be an agenda item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statement of Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 622789,
      "EditedText": "It is an agenda item. If you had been here at 9.30 you would have been informed about it. I do not want to go over it again, but it is recorded here on a paper that I will pass to you now, if you want to have a look at it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 622792,
      "EditedText": "I am happy enough with the format of the register, but I am concerned that there will be a cost for members of the public who want to buy it from the Stationery Office. Can we not make the register readily available in the same way as briefings are available in the visitor centre? Do we need to ask members of the public to spend an as yet unspecified amount to find out the interests of their MSP? The information is freely available on the internet; if it is freely available to the tiny percentage of the people of Scotland with access to the internet, I believe that it should be freely available to people who come to the visitor centre or to some other point of contact—one of the partner libraries, for example. We should not be asking the public to spend money purchasing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 622793,
      "EditedText": "Are there any further comments on that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 622796,
      "EditedText": "Costs are an issue, and we must look to the Stationery Office to see whether we can reduce the cost of the register. However, if people had paid 32p for the Daily Record, or 43p—or whatever it is—for The Herald, they would have read over the summer the full register of every member's interests. My local paper also printed the register, and I have had numerous inquiries about it. We are trying to move away from producing a lot of paper copies of documents—we want to be slightly more environmentally friendly—so we need to consider other methods of making the register and other parliamentary publications publicly available. If it is not possible to reduce the cost substantially, perhaps we could extend the scheme to two libraries per constituency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 622797,
      "EditedText": "I assume that the register will be made available on the internet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18716,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 622798,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 622801,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 622806,
      "EditedText": "The idea is to publish the information as it is, is it not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 622827,
      "EditedText": "If we put a section on lobbying out on its own, lobbying will be perceived as the main issue. However, the issue at hand is not lobbying; it is a general code of conduct for members. We should not let sections of the code become more important than others. If we put the code out as a package, it will be taken as a package; if we put it out in sections, the sections will become more important than the principle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 622829,
      "EditedText": "We will issue the code as a package.The next item is the format of the code. The committee is invited to consider whether it is content that the code should take the general form of a single substantial document, to be entitled \"Code of Conduct for Members of the Scottish Parliament\"; be strongly influenced by the CSG code of conduct working group; set out key principles of members' conduct; set out and explain in detail the rules, both statutory and those created by the code, which are relevant to members' conduct; and set out and explain the rules and procedure for the enforcement of the code.Is the committee content?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 622830,
      "EditedText": "I am strongly influenced by the work of the CSG code of conduct working group and I referred to its work earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 622831,
      "EditedText": "We might disagree with the CSG. I do not think that we should commit ourselves to not disagreeing. The CSG examined the code of conduct in the context of a series of issues. However, Parliament has been running for several months and we are beginning to see how, for example, the committees will work. Because of that, we might diverge from the recommendations of the CSG. The Nolan principles were taken on board by the CSG and I am happy to work within that framework, but I would not want us to commit ourselves to the CSG recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 622841,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C622843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 622843,
      "EditedText": "Could we put the full stop after, \"all that Members do\" rather than after, \"in the Parliament\", because the latter implies that the principle applies only to what happens here, not to what happens elsewhere?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 622848,
      "EditedText": "Could the phrase be changed to, \"during the pursuit of their duties\", or, \"in pursuit of their public duties\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 622849,
      "EditedText": "So the sentence would end, \"all that members do in pursuit of their public duties\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C622850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 622850,
      "EditedText": "Members should apply the principle to their private business as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 622854,
      "EditedText": "At the moment the paragraph reads:\"The word ‘Integrity' is inscribed on the mace which is the symbol of the authority of the Parliament; it is a principle which must underpin all that Members do\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 622855,
      "EditedText": "I have concerns about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 622856,
      "EditedText": "James, what do you think?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C622859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 622859,
      "EditedText": "In the next paragraph there is a line that could be taken to refer to members' public role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 622860,
      "EditedText": "I hope that we can all agree on integrity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 622865,
      "EditedText": "I think that \"act\" would be better than \"behave\". When I was a prosecutor, we used the word demeanour with reference to the accused. I think that \"act\" would sound more appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 622866,
      "EditedText": "Okay. The next sentence reads:\"Members must meet those expectations by ensuring that their conduct is above reproach and worthy of the trust of the electorate.\"The next paragraph is fairly straightforward. Are there any comments on the last paragraph on the first page? Is everyone happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 622871,
      "EditedText": "I would like something stronger than that. I do not want us to get into a situation where there is ambiguity about what is expected of people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 622873,
      "EditedText": "There should not. We have statutory responsibilities and there are rules that are binding on members in the code of conduct the Parliament has set out. If members break those rules, action will be taken against them. In that way we provide a clear line. If there are grey areas, members will say that they do not know what to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 622877,
      "EditedText": "If there are areas that are not covered by the code we might be able to issue advice additional to the code which would cover us in that eventuality.Karen may be right—the code might consist of the rules, but there might be a need for advice on, for example, patterns of registration. We would want to enshrine that in such a way as to make it crystal clear. It is almost impossible to produce a comprehensive set of rules that covers all eventualities. We could strive as hard as possible for that, but there might be areas in which we would prefer to issue advice rather than to change the structure of the rules. The practical difficulty in constructing a system of rules might be worth taking into consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 622878,
      "EditedText": "So if we take, for example, the \"Register of Members' Interests\", the rules could require that members register income but not pensions. We could, however, advise that pensions should also be registered. Is that the sort of thing members mean?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 622882,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about adding a sentence to the first page of the code. I propose that we add, \"The code also provides clear and unambiguous advice to members in relation to conduct.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 622884,
      "EditedText": "That relates to whether we should decide on matters as they arise or at the end of the debate—I think that we will do so at the end. We could proceed with the full stop where it is and flag it up as something to make a final decision on at the end of the process.Let us move over the page, to the next paragraph of the introduction, which begins: \"The Code draws heavily on\".Are we happy with that? We have already discussed this, have we not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 622885,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but I am a wee bit unhappy about the next two paragraphs. We are talking about the Parliament's code of conduct. The seventh paragraph of the draft introduction says:\"It is important that the Parliament has a Code of Conduct in place early in its life.\"What is the point of saying in the introduction to the code of conduct that it is important that the code of conduct is in place early in the Parliament's life?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 622886,
      "EditedText": "The point of the sentence was to make it clear why this would not be a definitive code that would stand for a long time; in a sense, it is a transitional code. Parliament needs a code, so something needs to be in place early on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622887",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 622887,
      "EditedText": "An interim code of practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 622888,
      "EditedText": "We addressed this point early on. It raises again matters such as the procedure for complaints: how can there be a procedure for complaints before there is a code of practice? We will not get this right first time; this will be a first shot."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622890",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 622890,
      "EditedText": "We can remove that sentence; do other members think that we should?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622898",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 622898,
      "EditedText": "Either would be more definite."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622900",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 622900,
      "EditedText": "What about \"makes clear\"?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622907",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 622907,
      "EditedText": "Going back to Tricia's statement, I think that it would be useful to make MSPs sign something. In local government, people have to sign a statement—the standard practice is after each election—before they are allowed to participate. Something similar might be appropriate here. Members should be required to sign a statement, perhaps at the point when they make their declaration of interests, that they have read the code."
    },
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    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622915",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "Take it out? It is out."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622918",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622923",
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      "EditedText": "As we have agreed, we will consider the issue as a whole and come back to any points that have been raised."
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 622925,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone happy with that?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622927",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 622927,
      "EditedText": "I was not suggesting that we change it."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622929",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 622929,
      "EditedText": "All I wanted to do was to show that at some time in the future I might return to that point."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "ContributionID": 622933,
      "EditedText": "You could instead say all the people living in the area."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622941",
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    },
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 622941,
      "EditedText": "We should be able to ensure that the people whom we represent are able to pursue their concerns, even if we disagree with them. I think that that is what we are saying."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622942",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "EditedText": "I would like greater clarity."
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  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622944",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "EditedText": "I do not like drafting in committee. Can we flag this up as something that could be better expressed?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622947",
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      "EditedText": "It is Nolan. What about the section on integrity?"
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622949",
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    },
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      "EditedText": "Can you expand on that?"
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    "ID": "M1882E175P456C622950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 622950,
      "EditedText": "The wording states that you should not put yourself under obligation to any individual or organisation that might influence you in the performance of your duties. If you belong to a political party you might be whipped to vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 622957,
      "EditedText": "I think that if it is from Nolan we must accept it and move on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 622958,
      "EditedText": "As everyone is happy with that, that is what we will do. The next section is on honesty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 622959,
      "EditedText": "I am looking at the Nolan procedures and at this draft side by side. Can I ask why we left out objectivity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 622961,
      "EditedText": "Why did the CSG leave out objectivity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 622965,
      "EditedText": "We need to find out whether the CSG was given advice about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 622966,
      "EditedText": "The advice that the CSG was given was that the Nolan committee had a wider remit and was examining all elements of public life, not members of Parliament specifically—certainly not members of the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 622967,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the concepts in the Nolan report, such as objectivity, would apply to members of the corporate body—I am one of them—in terms of the way in which they carry out that particular function."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 622970,
      "EditedText": "In that case there is a ministerial code."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 622973,
      "EditedText": "We will flag it up and come back to it. There are going to be a lot of flags.The next principle is honesty. The draft code states:\"Members have a duty to declare any private interests relating to their public duties and to take steps to resolve any conflicts arising in a way that protects the public interest.\"That seems to be fairly straightforward.The next principle is openness. Members can read through the paragraph on openness for themselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 622975,
      "EditedText": "I am not clear what you mean, Trish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 622980,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
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      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 622981,
      "EditedText": "The next issue is responsibility for decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 622991,
      "EditedText": "Just to remove the second sentence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C622992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 622992,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 622997,
      "EditedText": "I would not disclose information if a constituent who was involved in a criminal case came to me in confidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623001",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 623001,
      "EditedText": "You do not think that we should be responsible for decision making?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623002",
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      "ID": 3469
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 623002,
      "EditedText": "No. I do not think that this paragraph should be included. The previous paragraph says that we must be as open as possible and explain things. That subsumes the fact that we are taking responsibility for what we are doing. This paragraph is tautologous."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 623007,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments on the paragraph under the heading of \"Leadership\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 623010,
      "EditedText": "You are suggesting:\"Members will promote and support these principles by leadership and example, to maintain and strengthen the public's trust and confidence in the integrity of the Parliament\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 623015,
      "EditedText": "The alternative is to set up some other entity, so, yes, the clerks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 623017,
      "EditedText": "We have worked through the principles in this draft and identified areas where we are more or less happy. Before we finalise anything, I would like to have a further opportunity to think through whether the principles have been adapted to the purposes of the Parliament with adequate care and attention. The consultative steering group recommendations are very, very close to Nolan. I am not sure that they are as customised to the requirements of elected representatives as we might want. Could we add the proviso that we have made suggestions but we may discuss it further to make sure that we get it right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 623024,
      "EditedText": "I have just seen the clock—I did not realise what time it was. We have been going for two hours. I think members will agree that that is long enough. Shall we aim at 9.30 to 11.30?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 623025,
      "EditedText": "I would rather we have 10 am until 12 pm."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 623026,
      "EditedText": "Why do we not start at 9.45, then?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 623029,
      "EditedText": "There will be trains from Glasgow every 15 minutes in a few weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 623030,
      "EditedText": "Let us just agree that the next meeting will be at 9.30."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C623031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 623031,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:32."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 1 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18714,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 622780,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 09:32"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statement of Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 622782,
      "EditedText": "Over the recess, there has been considerable public interest in several issues that relate to the committee's remit and I want to take this opportunity to bring members up to date with developments on the issue of lobbying.Members should have a copy of a short extract of the code of conduct working group's supplementary report to the consultative steering group on this issue. For the record, this is the only information that I have used over the summer on which to base my comments. The report says:\"In considering the case for the regulation of lobbying, we recognised that recently there has been a lot of general concern about the activities of ‘professional' paid lobbyists. The concern about lobbying has been tied into concern about ‘sleaze' in public life and has attracted much media coverage and support for regulating lobbyists. The work of lobbying organisations is already regulated in other countries. For example, in Canada and the United States all lobbyists are required to register their activities and the information is publicly available. However, we noted that there are a number of strong reasons not to recommend regulation. The open nature of the Scottish Parliament would hopefully encourage individuals and groups to approach MSPs directly, therefore, to some extent, making the need for specialist lobbying organisations redundant . . . By regulating lobbyists, we believe that there is a danger of creating an elite group conferring upon them a commercial advantage associated with being a ‘registered' lobbyist. We consider that it is important not to create the impression that the only or the most successful way to approach an MSP is through a lobbyist. It is clearly the right of everyone to be able to lobby Parliament. We want to avoid affording any special status to lobbyists. We concluded that to register lobbyists would afford them a degree of importance and approval that was best avoided. If the Parliament recognised voluntary registration or provided for statutory regulation, there would be a risk that in some way registered lobbyists were considered the approved way to approach MSPs.\"I have taken great care to react to media inquiries on this issue by giving my own views, which accord entirely with the consultative steering group's recommendations. This committee has not yet discussed lobbying and I fear that by the time we come to consider it events may have moved on—we may be inundated with calls to legitimise lobbying organisations before we have had a chance to deliberate on the matter.A major commercial lobbying firm has already approached the First Minister requesting legislation on this issue. I am concerned because it seems that a public authority may also be planning to go down the same route. The committee may feel it appropriate to take that information into consideration when we discuss item 4. It is important that we consider the stage at which sections of the draft code may be made available to the public.I hope that my statement has been helpful. I invite comments from members before we move on to item 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C622784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statement of Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18715,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 622784,
      "EditedText": "It was kind of you to let me come along and speak at this meeting, Mike. At 4 o'clock yesterday afternoon, I had not expected that I would be here at half-past 9 this morning. However, my local newspaper, the Aberdeen Evening Express, ran a story last night under the title \"Anti-sleaze committee to probe lobbyist bid\". You were quoted as saying that that controversial proposal would be at the top of the agenda.I welcome what has been said about the distinction between professional lobbyists and public bodies that are carrying out their duty to represent citizens. Karen referred to Lanarkshire. Aberdeen is another area where the local authority is considering what steps it can take to help the city's MSPs and other representatives to put across the interests of the city. I would like the convener to confirm that there is no suggestion whatever of any probe by this committee into any improprieties, real or potential.It is also important to put on record the fact that Aberdeen City Council's consideration of lobbying has been carried out with other public authorities in the area in an attempt, as I say, to support those who can put forward the city's case. Any lobbying will be done by me, by the other Aberdeen MSPs, and, I am sure, by the local councillors. I thought that it was appropriate to set the record straight and to assure the citizens of my city that there is nothing on the agenda of the Standards Committee to suggest that there is anything inappropriate in what the council is doing or considering."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Statement of Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18715,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18715,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 622786,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry that I have arrived a bit late for the meeting.I am not sure that I concur with the views that you are putting forward, convener, or with the views of the consultative steering group on this matter. I believe that there is a reasonable case for a process of registering lobbyists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 622790,
      "EditedText": "Everybody has received a briefing note on the publication of the register of interests of the members of the Scottish Parliament. The committee is invited to agree that the publication of the register should take place as soon as possible, probably in October or November this year, and on the same date in subsequent years. Does everybody agree?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 622791,
      "EditedText": "Turning to the second part of this item, have you all noted the proposed format for publication? Is everybody happy with it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 622794,
      "EditedText": "Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that there will be at least one partner library in each constituency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 622795,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is true."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 622799,
      "EditedText": "When I read the information as cited, I was not 100 per cent clear about the position of the MSPs who are also members of the Westminster Parliament, in terms of their total remuneration from the two Parliaments. Malcolm Chisholm's statement was clear, but that was not the case elsewhere. Might there be a mechanism by which we could identify members' total remuneration from public sources? We cannot see clearly from the list how much members are earning and that information should be available. The present format shows the first statements. I am not clear how the format would change, or how updates would be recorded, as members change their entries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 622800,
      "EditedText": "I will take advice from the clerk—Interruption.The clerk's advice is that it is up to the Parliament to decide annually the frequency of updates. I do not see the point of the clerk speaking to me and my repeating that advice to the other members of the committee. Do members want to hear the clerk's advice directly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 622803,
      "EditedText": "I raised the strange position of those who are members of both the Scottish Parliament and the Westminster Parliament. It would be helpful if there were guidelines, as, even if we cannot change the pattern of registration, we should advise members how to disclose relevant information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 622805,
      "EditedText": "In relation to the snapshot version, I am sure that the position of a number of people will have changed between 1 June and 1 August. Do we simply record the position at the publication date, or do we record changes retrospectively? I do not mind, but I want to be clear how we are going to do it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 622807,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and that includes any changes. There is a requirement on members to inform us of any positive changes within 30 days; the printed version will contain changes entered in the register before the date of publication."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C622808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 622808,
      "EditedText": "Some of the points that Tricia raised need to be considered in more detail. I am quite happy with the current arrangements, but I share people's concern about keeping the costs down as far as possible so that the register is available to members of the public.In addition, it might be useful for a loose-leaf version to be available for people to access in the visitor centre. Members of the public would probably find it useful if we pointed out that when they buy the Stationery Office version, it will only be as accurate as it can be at the publication date. If they require the updates and changes, they will have to access the register via the other available formats. We must be clear about the limitations of the published document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "“Register of Members' Interests”",
      "HeadingID": 18716,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18716,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 622810,
      "EditedText": "When is the suggested publication date?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Members' Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18717,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ID": 18717,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 622813,
      "EditedText": "Considered in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 622814,
      "EditedText": "I welcome observers back to the meeting—I am sorry that they were excluded from the previous agenda item. I am glad to continue the meeting in open session with item 4, which concerns the code of conduct for members.Members will have received the briefing note on item 4. I will refer to the comments that I made on item 1, because the first matter that we need to discuss is the public availability of the draft code of conduct for members once we have agreed on the code's terms. The committee is invited to consider at what stage it wishes to make the draft code or sections of the code available to the public. That is important, because the public have a greater interest in some aspects of the code of conduct than in others. Do members think that the code should be published in whole or in sections?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 622816,
      "EditedText": "People have access to the papers that are listed on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 622817,
      "EditedText": "Therefore, in many ways, those papers are already in the public domain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 622818,
      "EditedText": "No, not unless the committee wishes them to be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 622820,
      "EditedText": "We have taken the CSG report and the first report of the Nolan committee into account in our deliberations, and their recommendations will form the basis not only of our principles but of the code of conduct itself. There was widespread consultation on the CSG report. Although the code of conduct should be published at the earliest opportunity, we should bring out a final draft form of the whole code rather than chapters of it, so that people can say, at the final draft stage, \"Wait a minute—we don't think you're getting this right.\" We can then take the text back and work on it. It will be difficult for folk to get a feel of the whole code from chapters in isolation, so we should make quick progress on a final draft form. As Karen says, that depends on the progress that the committee makes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 622825,
      "EditedText": "My only concern is that putting out individual sections might cause those sections to overtake the ethos of the code of conduct. There is already some interest in lobbying."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 622826,
      "EditedText": "That is what I was thinking of."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 622833,
      "EditedText": "The wording is strongly influenced by the CSG. Our proposal would not disagree with it.We now move on to the text of the introduction to the code of conduct. There is a typing error in the first line. It should read, \"The Scottish Parliament is an open, accessible and participative Parliament\".The briefing note states:\"The committee is asked to consider the text of the Introduction and is invited to:agree that there should be an Introduction,agree what, if any, changes should be made to the draft text of the Introduction.\"We should address ourselves to the text of the introduction to the proposed members' code of conduct. I am not sure what members want me to do. I think that we should read through the introduction and then I will ask for comments. Would members prefer to comment on the introduction as a whole, paragraph by paragraph, or line by line?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 622834,
      "EditedText": "Paragraph by paragraph."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 622836,
      "EditedText": "We will do it paragraph by paragraph. Are there any comments on the first paragraph?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 622837,
      "EditedText": "We all agree that the Scottish Parliament should be an \"open, accessible and participative Parliament\", but it is up to us to prove that it is. Instead of making a declaration that it is \"open, accessible and participative\", we should say that we seek, or aim, or strive to make it so. It is a great leap to suggest that we are already \"open, accessible and participative\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 622839,
      "EditedText": "It is six of one and half a dozen of the other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 622840,
      "EditedText": "We will use the words, \"The Scottish Parliament commits itself to being\".Are there any other comments on paragraph 1?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 622842,
      "EditedText": "Are there any comments on paragraph 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 622844,
      "EditedText": "We could strike out the final three words. However, I am advised that that would raise questions about members' private lives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 622845,
      "EditedText": "God forbid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 622852,
      "EditedText": "Are we saying that the sentence should read, \"will underpin all that members do in pursuit of their public duties\"?Are we happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 622853,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that it reads very well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 622858,
      "EditedText": "Can we all agree on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 622862,
      "EditedText": "Let us move to paragraph 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 622863,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we reverse the order of \"in their relationships with their constituents\" and \"in Parliament\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 622867,
      "EditedText": "The paragraph establishes a distinction between statutory requirements and code of conduct requirements. Might we end up with a third category of advice to members?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 622868,
      "EditedText": "How would you propose phrasing that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 622869,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, we are bound by statute, and we will produce a code of conduct that will be binding on members. However, there might be areas where we do not want to lay down hard-and-fast rules. They could be included in the code of conduct, or under functions that we take on at some stage in the future. I wonder whether we want to take account of that possibility in the introduction. That might not be something that we have to decide at this meeting—it is just a query."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 622872,
      "EditedText": "There should not be any grey areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 622875,
      "EditedText": "That is the crux of the matter. The problem in Westminster and in other Parliaments has been that advice has not been clear, or that the rules are vague, or that there is a grey area. We should ensure that the advice is crystal clear so that we avoid problems. I would prefer to go along with Karen, who says that we should leave it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622876",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 622876,
      "EditedText": "The Parliament's intention is to review and, if necessary, to amend the code of conduct. I remember in days gone by and before the law was clarified, that surgeons were worried about whether they were legally entitled to perform kidney transplants.As Des said, situations could emerge that are not covered by the code."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622879",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
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      "EditedText": "That is probably not the clearest example. The rules require full disclosure, but there might be areas in which it is not 100 per cent clear what constitutes remuneration. Rather than trying to write the rules in such a way as to make them comprehensive, we should consider making them quite simple and supplementing them with advice that refers to particular cases."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622880",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "In trying to square the circle on this point, we should perhaps add that the code also provides clear—as I am sure it will be—advice to members in relation to their conduct. Would that satisfy you, Karen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622881",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 622881,
      "EditedText": "What is this about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 622883,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that rather than trying to construct this in committee—which is always a false thing to do—we should highlight issues of concern and leave it to the clerks to devise a form of wording. If the committee agrees, we can presumably simply advise on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622889",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 622889,
      "EditedText": "The final sentence in the same paragraph says that we will amend the code in future; I do not see the point of having that first sentence."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622894",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 622894,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that if the first line is being removed, \"This ensures that\" should be taken out of the second line and that it should begin, \"Members should be clear about the principles\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C622896",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 622896,
      "EditedText": "In the first line of the last paragraph, the words \"are expected to\" could be changed to \"will\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0628118+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
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      "ContributionID": 622897,
      "EditedText": "Or to \"are required to\"."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622899",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 622899,
      "EditedText": "Is \"underpins\" the correct term? It might be better to say \"sets out\" or \"outlines\"."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622902",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 622902,
      "EditedText": "And that should be handed into the clerks so that we have a record?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622906",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 622906,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that \"carrying out business\" at the end of that first sentence should be taken out and changed to \"carrying out duties\". \"Carrying out business\" could mean anything."
    },
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  },
  {
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    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 622908,
      "EditedText": "You mean make it a requirement?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "EditedText": "Is everyone happy with that? We will make it a legal requirement."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 622911,
      "EditedText": "We have completed examination of the introduction; we will now we move to the text of the key principles. The briefing note states:\"The committee is asked to consider the text of the section on the draft Code on Key Principles and is invited to:? agree what should be the Key Principles governing Members' Conduct,? agree the text of the section on Key Principles.\"I propose to discuss the draft code paragraph by paragraph. \"Section 1: Key principles of the Code of Conduct. The key principles which follow set out how Members of the Parliament will carry out their responsibilities. They are a means by which Members declare what they stand for. They are more than aspirational, however; the principles are a compact between the Parliament and the people it serves.\" Are there any comments on that?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622921",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 622921,
      "EditedText": "Of course we can come back to it. That is the second point that has been flagged up for us to consider at the end. You do not want to raise it now?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ID": 1876,
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
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      "EditedText": "No. I would like to have a think about it and, if I can, suggest a different wording—one does not immediately come to mind."
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 622924,
      "EditedText": "I would appreciate it if we could flag up the second paragraph."
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  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
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      "EditedText": "To be honest, I would not be happy to change that paragraph. I am happy to have the discussion, but the paragraph is a statement of fact. The oath binds us as members of this Parliament. Given the vast publicity around the various antics at the swearing-in, I am concerned that if we make any changes we will reopen the debate."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622928",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "ContributionID": 622928,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that anyone is proposing that we change it. We will leave it as it is. All that we have done is to flag it up. We can return to any point, and this is the second flagged-up issue."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622930",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 622930,
      "EditedText": "The second principle is the duty to electors."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 622935,
      "EditedText": "Some people have no residence—they are homeless and might feel excluded by that language."
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C622937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 622937,
      "EditedText": "We could use the word \"citizens\"—if we are citizens and not subjects, of course."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C622939",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
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      "Name": "Standards Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 622943,
      "EditedText": "Do you have any suggestions?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C622946",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
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      "EditedText": "The text there is very clear."
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    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622951",
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      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
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      "EditedText": "I do not mind."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Vanessa Glynn: ",
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      "EditedText": "It is Nolan."
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      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
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      "ContributionID": 622956,
      "EditedText": "What about inserting the word \"unduly\" in front of \"influence\"? If not, should we flag it up and return to it?"
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 622960,
      "EditedText": "It is not Nolan, it is the CSG."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 622962,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should ask the CSG that. We do not know. Do you think that we should include objectivity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 622968,
      "EditedText": "That would apply only to members carrying out that function. Normal MSPs do not award big contracts and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 622969,
      "EditedText": "Ministers often award contracts, as does the corporate body."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 622971,
      "EditedText": "I do not see any reason to remove objectivity from the general principles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 622972,
      "EditedText": "Can we flag it up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 622974,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that the second sentence says what I think that it means. We need to add something to the end of it—perhaps \"that they do so\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 622976,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the sentence makes sense."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 622977,
      "EditedText": "I think that we are trying to say that we have a predilection for openness in everything that we do. We cannot just say, \"I'm sorry, that's private\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 622982,
      "EditedText": "I am beginning to pick up a tension here that is getting in the way. This is a code of conduct for individual members. Side by side with that will be a set of principles for the conduct of business in the Parliament. Some of the ways in which the matter is framed by the CSG fall between the two areas. The code is not sufficiently clearly directed at the individual member. Some of the issues are more properly dealt with. For example, the principle of openness relates to the procedures of the Parliament; it is more important in that dimension than at the level of the responsibilities of individual members. Whether decisions should be open is not the choice of the individual member; it is about how the Parliament conducts itself. There is a wee tension in what has been suggested. It is framed in the context of the individual's responsibility, whereas the responsibility might more properly lie in the way in which the Parliament conducts its business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 622985,
      "EditedText": "It could also be a matter for the procedural structures in the Parliament. This committee has decided that it will be as open as possible and other committees are also taking decisions on openness. The decision is not for individual members. The key issue on openness is that it involves a procedural decision that members are taking collectively. The intentions are good but, in the translation of the Nolan report to our code of conduct, that dimension has not been properly explored."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 622986,
      "EditedText": "There are parts of the paragraph under the heading of \"Openness\" that perhaps have not been defined as clearly as they could have been. The draft code of conduct states:\"Members will be as open as possible about all the decisions and actions they take.\" For me, that means that I must be able to be held to account about why I have voted in a particular way in a debate. I am happy to do that, and will give reasons for my decisions, because it is clear to me what that is about. I will give members reasons for the way in which I have voted and acted within the Parliament. The bit that confuses me is the part of the paragraph on openness that says:\"and restrict information only when the wider public interest clearly demands.\"I understand why that is there for members. I have worked for an MP, and constituents come with issues on which action has to be taken that initially cannot be made public because it is on behalf of an individual. It is about confidentiality.We are mixing up how we conduct ourselves during parliamentary business, and the decisions that we make, with how we conduct ourselves in our individual dealings with constituents. Both of those aspects are important, but we are confusing constituency work with openness. I do not think that constituency work will necessarily be open. That is a matter for us and for our constituents to determine, as issues of confidentiality are involved. We have caused a muddle for ourselves by including constituency casework in what we do in the chamber and the making of decisions on local issues. That is not individual constituency casework. Perhaps we could have two differently worded sets of guidance, to reflect the two key strands of our work: how we deal with individual constituents and how we act and vote in the chamber."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 622988,
      "EditedText": "I would split the two responsibilities more clearly, but I do not know how that might be done. As a non-Executive member, I was confused by that statement, as were other members of this committee. We must clarify exactly what we are dealing with. I understand what the convener is saying about Executive members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 622994,
      "EditedText": "There are certain circumstances in which an MSP is entitled to take up a matter with the Lord Advocate in confidence; for example, if an MSP is approached by a witness in a murder case and the witness is terrified of intimidation and has already had a brother killed. If the MSP is asked to give such information to others, he or she would not necessarily feel obliged to do so. If the Lord Advocate makes something public, that is because of the wider public interest, but criminal cases and cases of mental illness are matters in which confidentiality should be privileged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 622995,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly the type of problem that we face."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 622998,
      "EditedText": "We are trying to make everything crystal clear. There is an obvious problem here, and we must consider the matter again.What about the paragraph \"Responsibility for Decisions\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C623000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 623000,
      "EditedText": "I do not agree. I am not sure that that should be included at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 623004,
      "EditedText": "We could be more specific about\"whatever scrutiny is appropriate to their office\".We could be self-referential and mention the code of conduct here. Those words are very vague; it is straight from Nolan. We might want to specify."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 623008,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is a very important paragraph—very strong and useful. We should make sure that is what we do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 623013,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we should include that final point. In the event of a breach we may end up having to deal with particular circumstances, so there must be some other mechanism."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 623016,
      "EditedText": "For the moment, anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C623018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 623018,
      "EditedText": "Would this be an appropriate point to pause, before examining the detail? We have covered the key principles of the code. Are you suggesting that we finish for the moment, which would give us some time before the next meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C623019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 623019,
      "EditedText": "I suppose that I am suggesting that the clerks go away and take account of our suggestions, and that if people have further suggestions or ideas, they submit them to the clerks in writing before the next meeting, before we sign this one off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C623022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 623022,
      "EditedText": "We still need to have lunch on a Wednesday. The Parliament sits in the afternoon. I come in at 8 am and, frankly, I would like the meeting at 9 am, never mind 9.30. If we are pushing the start time to 10 am, we are going towards lunchtime. In view of the necessary work of preparing speeches for the afternoon session, for example, the start time should not, in my view, be any later than 9.30."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C623023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 623023,
      "EditedText": "Some of us have other business at the lunch break. I for one have regular briefings at lunchtime, and I would be reluctant for the committee to continue towards that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C623027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 3469
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Code of Conduct ",
      "HeadingID": 18718,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18718,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 623027,
      "EditedText": "That would not make any difference in regard to train times. We might as well just start at 9.30 and get on with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.7971596+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 477746,
      "EditedText": "The first item on our agenda is the McIntosh report and the consideration of priorities for this committee. My feeling is that everything is, in a sense, up for grabs. There is nothing in the McIntosh report that I think we should not discuss and there is nothing that we should hold back on in setting out our priorities this morning.I am putting this to members of the committee to find out if they have any thoughts. On the day we discussed the McIntosh report, we divvied up the things that we think will go through with a modicum of discussion and, I hope, a lot of agreement. The next tranche is the subjects on which we think we need more information and on which we want a bit of debate and decision-making. We also need to say where we think there might be some controversy. We should start with the easier of those first. The clerk has provided a subject grid with the papers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 477749,
      "EditedText": "There is consultation on general competence and so on, but we have not been given a timetable for that. It is important that we have our deliberations before conclusions are drawn. That may mean that we need to move things around slightly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 477752,
      "EditedText": "There is a leadership forum, there are the champions for change and—I am getting them all mixed up—there is Richard Kerley's group. That group will examine proportional representation and councillors' remuneration, among other things.We felt that we should not be doing two things at once. We should wait until the Kerley committee reports and consider the whole issue. However, I am not sure that we have time for that approach. The only group that has a deadline on it is the one that is due to report in February 2000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 477755,
      "EditedText": "That is fair enough. I take the point about finding out about developments through the press."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 477758,
      "EditedText": "Will we produce a document containing this committee's official response?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 477760,
      "EditedText": "I know that ministers are worried about Cabinet confidentiality, but if we want to influence decisions we will have to take part in the process at an early stage. Once the Government has printed a document that says, for instance, that all councils will sit around circular tables, it will be hard to change its position if we believe square tables are better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 477763,
      "EditedText": "Convener, I would like you to confirm that the last time we met you kindly offered to take the matter of Richard Kerley and the make-up of these panels back to your conveners meeting. Can you confirm that? In our own group there has been interest—concern might be too strong a word—about the way such things come about. Often, as you know, we read about them in the press before we know about them. Have you made approaches to your fellow conveners on that matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 477765,
      "EditedText": "I am so sorry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 477766,
      "EditedText": "I have noted that matter. I am sure that I shall not be the only one to raise it at the next conveners meeting. Conveners will meet only about once a month; the group met the day before we spoke. I have not met the other conveners again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 477776,
      "EditedText": "Arising from what Donald said—it is something that concerns us all—the more I look at the issue of our committee work, the more the time element concerns me. For example, in the Rural Affairs Committee, some of us have been talking at length about sheep, whereas my concerns are on the tourism and financial issues that cross our bows. Has there been any discussion among conveners or with the Executive about time management and time allocation? I suspect that that is a problem that will hit us quickly and hard. With the best will in the world, I do not know how we can deal with McIntosh et al once a fortnight or once every three weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 477779,
      "EditedText": "Donald Gorrie made a point about the different committees' subject areas and the way in which they link into local government. A useful way in which we could look at that would be in terms of new committee structures, or evolving committee structures that take on board the integrated and holistic approach at council level. That would link in with the approach the advisory panel is taking. That is important for us, but we should stay focused on the bigger picture, as Johann Lamont said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 477782,
      "EditedText": "Last week we had briefings from the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, Arthur Midwinter, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. Everyone stressed that an independent review of local government finance is the number one priority. Everything else is structured on that. We know the Executive position on that—Jack McConnell has made it very clear—but it would be remiss of us not to look at it independently, even if we cannot finally make any suggestions that are different from the Executive's. The committee must take this subject on board and go out and seek the views of all interested parties to see whether there is a way in which we can make local government finance more autonomous. I suggest that that is an absolute No 1 priority. The second priority would be proportional representation, because so many councils are concerned about how they will be affected by it. The Kerley committee will report fairly early; that is another thing that we must get a handle on. The third priority I would suggest are the issues surrounding general competence. Those are the three priorities that we should look at because they are the three areas that local government, from trade unions right up to chief executives and elected members, are most concerned about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 477784,
      "EditedText": "Only to add that although I agree entirely with what Kenny Gibson is saying, I wonder if he is not—understandably—zeroing in on the revenues methods for councils. As a committee, we might lose track of capital."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 477786,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but there are ways in which rules can be changed. Section 94 on capped and current revenue is boxed into a current financial year. With a tweaking of the rules that would not cost the public sector borrowing account anything at all, that could be changed to allow councils to carry over from one year to the next and therefore amass a fund for a given project. That, in my experience, would help with capital programmes. It is something that I have explored in the past and I believe that we can be proactive there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 477787,
      "EditedText": "Those are three very important issues that we should be pursuing vigorously. If we could also identify issues on which there is not controversy but which we could try to ensure that the Government pushes forward, that would be helpful. Also very important are the terms of the covenant between the Scottish Executive and local government—that is about the relationship and who writes it and how we progress with it. I think the three things that Kenny mentioned are the three most important issues but we could also, without spending too much time on them, make progress with other issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 477789,
      "EditedText": "Yes—because I do not know if we can do them all. We will have to touch base with all those subjects, but if we are gonnae try to do it in a systematic way, then those would be the priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 477799,
      "EditedText": "When this subject came up last week, I suggested that we go through the report as a committee, rather than independently; Bristow suggested much the same thing. It would be a bit of a plod, but it would avoid all sorts of cross-talk. We could go through the paragraphs of the report systematically and decide what we agreed on and what was contentious. We would then know exactly what points needed to be discussed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 477802,
      "EditedText": "I will mention general competence and finance. Obviously, if we have the minister before us, those questions can be put directly and expanded on. What about proportional representation? I wrote down finance, PR and general competence, because that is how you presented it. Do you want to examine PR?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 477804,
      "EditedText": "Do you want someone else to come along and give the other side of the story?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 477807,
      "EditedText": "In the interests of fairness that would be appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 477815,
      "EditedText": "The people of East Timor, under the guns of the Indonesian army, put us all to shame with their 90-odd per cent turnout."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 477817,
      "EditedText": "All together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 477822,
      "EditedText": "On the question of PR, it may be that it would cost too much, but the people in Britain who have most experience of different systems of PR are the Northern Irish. We could get someone who is Northern Irish and had experienced PR, or who had studied it. We may not be able to afford the air fare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 477825,
      "EditedText": "I will pass on that one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 477826,
      "EditedText": "Like Johann, I recommend that we ask an academic who has as much knowledge about international systems."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 477827,
      "EditedText": "I suggest John Curtice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 477832,
      "EditedText": "Neil McIntosh certainly went across to Europe. There is nothing to stop us pulling him back in—I do not know."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 477841,
      "EditedText": "I am not clear who writes the covenant—obviously we have to agree in the end and we need to start somewhere. Is there merit in suggesting to COSLA that it could draft what it thinks the covenant should contain, with a view to discussing it with us at the end of October or November or whenever? I am not sure whether drafting the covenant is our responsibility or the Executive's responsibility, or whose responsibility it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 477842,
      "EditedText": "If my memory serves me right, local government, the Scottish Executive and COSLA are to be involved in drafting the covenant. There is nothing to stop us making an input as that can be done through me. The Executive has made it clear to me, as it has to other committee conveners, that I can make contacts, pass issues on and make comments whenever I wish. There is nothing to stop us having a view on how the covenant should come together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 477845,
      "EditedText": "May I suggest that, if we do go out, we go to areas where we have least knowledge? You and I have both been councillors on Glasgow City Council and Strathclyde Regional Council. It might be beneficial for someone like me to go to the Highlands or to the Borders, and for someone like Jamie to look at the urban context, so that we gain experience of all parts of the country. That would give us all a better feel for local government and delivery of services in other parts of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 477846,
      "EditedText": "I agree. It would be better for us to widen our knowledge base, and that would be a good way in which to do it. I do not want to listen to the councillors in Glasgow City Council yet again. I would be quite happy to move around. I hope that that was not recorded—Charlie Gordon will kill me. Do members have any ideas about the suggestion that we go out on visits, or do they wish to think about it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 477847,
      "EditedText": "I think that we will need a little advice on this matter, although I totally support your point about getting beyond councils and councillors. We could talk to associations of, or a given grouping of, community councils. It would be no bad thing to talk to tenants' associations where they exist in some of the more built up areas—even in Highland. However, I think that we will need to ask for advice, as there will be groups that may not instantly come to mind that would be just as relevant—such as playgroups, school boards and so on. We will have to be careful not to get bogged down, and we will have to try to group them together where we can. If we go into too much detail, we will be out on visits for months and months on end—I could be in Glasgow for months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 477848,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could learn from the McIntosh commission's experience. The last thing we want to do is end up in greeting meetings in which people make specific criticisms and which are of no real interest to us. At the same time, Jamie is absolutely right—we want to talk to the voluntary sector and to people who use the services, as well as to the establishment. The McIntosh commission might be able to tell us how it set out its stall."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 477855,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has not yet got used to the fact that he can speak up during our meetings, so he has passed me a note to say that we could produce some proposals for the next meeting. That is a good idea. Please feel free to speak up, Eugene, rather than whispering and passing notes.It would be a good idea if the clerks made some proposals. You are right, Donald, we will want to ask some questions. I want councils to tell me which things work and which things do not. That is not an easy question to answer but is the kind of question that we would want to ask."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 477858,
      "EditedText": "You are the boss."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 477861,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair comment. We have planned up until the week after the recess. After that, we might want to go down a road that we had not considered before."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 477864,
      "EditedText": "I do not know how the system works but it would be useful to book a weekly slot without saying what we are going to do. If the Executive sets up a financial inquiry, that is fine, but if it does not, instituting an inquiry would be a major task and would take several weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 477866,
      "EditedText": "When will we receive the briefing papers for last week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C477744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 1 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12916,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12916,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 477744,
      "EditedText": "The only interest that I have to declare—and I have already declared it in the \"Register of Members' Interests\"—is the fact that I am a councillor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 477748,
      "EditedText": "Kerley must report by February 2000. Part of the McIntosh report deals with ethics. There will be an ethics bill and it might be introduced sooner than that, so we must be aware of what other committees are doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 477750,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is right. We must be aware of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 477761,
      "EditedText": "I take your point. I am happy to write to the minister to ask for clarification, if that is what the committee wants. I will do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 477762,
      "EditedText": "I return to the point that Sylvia and Kenny were discussing. We may find out about the programme that is envisaged when the Minister for Communities comes to speak to us, but we have agreed to invite Richard Kerley. I am flagging up the fact that we should invite someone from the advisory panel as well, so that we can speak to them and find out exactly what the proposals are for that panel. An appropriate time might become more obvious later, but it should be as early as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 477764,
      "EditedText": "We have not had another meeting since I spoke to you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 477767,
      "EditedText": "The specific issue of Kerley has been highlighted, but there is a general point to be made about what exactly the procedure is when such committees are established. We made the point before that the names for the committee of inquiry appeared before the Parliament to be endorsed. Whatever the procedure is, it would be helpful if there was only one procedure and if there was some transparency surrounding the criteria according to which people are selected for such positions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 477768,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. I agree with that. In the meantime, I shall write to the minister and pass on these comments directly, and I shall bring the matter up at the next conveners meeting. I do not think that I shall be the only convener to do so, as the same issue seems to have arisen in other places. I apologise for not mentioning the panel membership of the advisory group that will, according to today's press release, \"advise councils on the review of their decision making and policy development processes and the working practices which support those processes. In addition, the Panel will provide advice to Ministers on the outcome of the reviews councils undertake\".The McIntosh report suggests that an independent body should do that. I understand the value of that, but I take the point that the committee is making—that we read about it in the press or find out about it second hand. I shall provide committee members with copies of that press release so that they can see who is on the panel. The panel is quite large and wide-ranging. I do not know when it will provide some kind of comment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 477769,
      "EditedText": "Convener, I agree entirely with what you say, but I hope that, from an early point, this committee will not be merely reactive. I fully understand why the Executive does what it does and why McIntosh recommends what he recommends, but I hope that the point will be made that we are proactive. We should be able to present a paper regardless of what other groups say. That is how I understand our remit, and I hope that it is the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 477771,
      "EditedText": "If Richard Kerley is coming to see us early, that should be tied in not only with Alastair MacNish's committee but with the Electoral Reform Society. People may not know these systems inside out. McIntosh has suggested that we examine specific systems, so it is very important that we know exactly what we are talking about in great detail. For example, I know that Donald is an expert on the single transferable vote. It is important that we get a presentation to explain such things in great detail, so that members of the committee can ask specific questions on how such systems would work in practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 477775,
      "EditedText": "It has been recognised that the work of some committees, such as the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, impinges on the work of every other committee. I am sure that the clerks will start to filter things out, and we must do the same. We have to be aware of what is happening in education, community care and health. Some of that will come out at the conveners committee, but there will probably also be a system whereby members such as I will attend other committees to listen to discussion on parts of their agenda. Donald Gorrie is absolutely right: committees have to work together rather than in isolation. In a sense, we could be involved in housing, social inclusion, community care, health, education—the whole gamut of services that are delivered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 477777,
      "EditedText": "The discussion at the conveners committee was a first look at the timetable. Some adjustment went on. There was certainly a feeling that some committees will have to meet on Monday afternoons. For example, the Subordinate Legislation Committee, of which Bristow and I are members, will meet on Monday afternoons because 30 November, which is a Tuesday, is a holiday, and on another occasion the convener will be away on a visit. We will see how the system works and then move around. Some committees will meet once a fortnight. We might consider that further into the programme. We have a slot between 9.30 and 12.30 on a Wednesday; it is entirely up to us what we do with it. We can be here, we can be outside or we can decide to meet every fortnight, or whatever. We are not here next week, but that was in the programme. It is early days yet, but you are absolutely right; many committees will not get through their agendas and will have to pick up at a later date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 477780,
      "EditedText": "I agree completely with Johann Lamont. We must ensure that our priorities are the same as those that are being identified out there in the wider world, particularly by local government. There is great anxiety about how McIntosh will impact, and that is why it is very important that what Johann Lamont suggested is taken up. There have been years and years of instability in local government and this is the big chance for us to set things right. We want to do things systematically, not rush them, and to prioritise. We should ensure that our priorities are the same as those that have been identified by local government. We must look at things from the outside looking in, rather than us looking out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 477783,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone have any objection to that, or any comments to make?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 477790,
      "EditedText": "I would not disagree on the importance of those three issues but suggest that, given that Kerley has a fixed time scale and that finance might take longer to look at, we should prioritise PR."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 477793,
      "EditedText": "There is another issue on PR. The Executive has moved on to look at alternative PR systems but a significant body of opinion would prefer to look at other ways of improving involvement in local government elections without moving to a proportional system. We have to recognise that as a legitimate strand, particularly in local government, and recognise that that view is articulated fairly effectively in certain quarters and is more than just not wanting change because change is bad.On the question of finance, there are two separate stages. There is a need for this committee to engage in a discussion with the Executive about its decision not to go out to an independent inquiry, because there is no doubt that, if we are reflecting the views that came to us in the briefing, there is a strong feeling that it ought to have done. The first stage is to explore why the Executive took that decision and see if there is any movement on it. We have a responsibility to reflect what seemed to be a remarkable consensus across all the people who were briefing us that they felt that this was a difficulty with the Executive's position.That is the first stage. Whether or not the Executive maintains that position there is a separate stage about us informing ourselves about the broad finance issues that Kenny has referred to. Having the Minister for Finance and the minister responsible for local government coming gives us the opportunity to engage in a political discussion with them about why that decision was made and whether there is any movement on it. We could examine the substantive finance issues after that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2105E44P74C477794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harding, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2105,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Harding: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 477794,
      "EditedText": "I do not look on it, as Kenny said, from the outside into this committee. I do not think that proportional representation is a major issue in councils. I think that we should await the outcome of the report that is coming in. I agree that there is concern about finance. A major concern of the councils is about how they are going to work with us. I think that we should look into the covenant. Councils also want to know whether they can get involved in the legislative programme. I think that we should discuss those issues and go out and talk to the councils soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 477795,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Johann that if we can persuade the Executive to conduct a proper financial review that would be the best thing, so we should try that first. If the Executive will not do that, we must explore what mechanism there is and funds there are for us to do it.Perhaps an even more contentious issue will arise this autumn when the Executive announces its allocation of money to councils, which, according to the comprehensive spending review, will mean quite a lot less money for a lot of services so there will be a huge howl from the councils. I have had meetings with my party colleagues on various councils who have flagged that up as a major issue. Is this a legitimate area of our remit? Should we reflect the views of councils and lobby for local government to get its fair share within the restricted budget of the Scottish Executive?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 477800,
      "EditedText": "At the back of the report there are recommendations, with the relevant paragraph highlighted. If, when we are considering recommendations one by one, we find problems, we can refer back to the paragraph. The clerk informs me that the Accounts Commission will probably want to speak for 45 minutes to an hour. With questions, we are likely to need an hour and a half. That should give us time at the end of the meeting to start examining the report. If we run out of time, we can continue with it at the end of another meeting.The Minister for Finance is to appear before us on 21 September. On 29 September we will try to arrange for the minister for local government to come. Two general questions will be discussed at that meeting: finance, and the issue that has been raised this morning—the setting up of a panel without our being informed or providing input. In the meantime, I will write to make known the mood of the committee on that matter; we may have an answer before the meeting takes place. I will also be attending a conveners committee and will pass on members' comments about linking up with other committees. Do members know that the agendas of all committees are available on the intranet, and that if they find something of interest they can access it? They can also talk to the convener before a meeting, who can allow them to ask questions—although I do not want to find myself sitting in on every committee just in case local government is mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 477801,
      "EditedText": "You said you would be talking to Wendy Alexander about what interests us. I am keen, as I am sure are other members of the  committee, to know why the Government is iffy on the issue of general competence. I thought that that was a done deal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 477803,
      "EditedText": "We should get the Electoral Reform Society here to tell us about all the systems so that we understand the fundamentals. We can spend a morning firing as many questions as we want so that we all know in our mind's eye exactly how the systems work, before moving on to the next stage. As Johann said, it is important that we do not ignore the current system. Although McIntosh recommended that we move to PR, at the end of the day we should still compare it to the existing system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 477810,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly what I said in the briefing last week. In fact, I mentioned Johann's home island of Tiree. It is important that we are not looking for a single system that necessarily fits the whole of Scotland, because it may be that a single system is not suitable. I would be surprised if the system that suited Glasgow also suited the Highlands or Argyll, for historic reasons.We mentioned independents. We do not want to have millions of people presenting to the committee, but we do need someone to present that rural, independent perspective. When people think of PR they always think about the west of Scotland. In our debate on McIntosh, Brian Adam from our party spoke on the topic, because he is from Aberdeen and the issue is seen as a west of Scotland issue. It is important that we do not forget about places like the Borders, the Highlands, Argyll and Galloway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 477814,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, as the Highlander here I welcome what Kenny said. Taking off my Liberal Democrat hat for a minute, it is a concern in the Highlands, where some wards are bigger than many constituencies in this Parliament.However, my second point is that I have concern about increasing democracy at a time when there are very low and sometimes declining turnouts. This is not just about being politically correct—we have to get the young linked in. It worries me a lot that the young are even less interested in turning up for local elections than their parents. We should concentrate on what Bristow is saying about trying to get folk out. We have to get away from 35, 28, and 45 per cent turnouts, which is not democracy in any shape or form."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 477821,
      "EditedText": "Good question. There will be the odd afternoon—or evening—session on a Tuesday, from 4.15 pm to 6.15 pm. I have managed to get the other committees on that group to rotate, so it will not always be 4.15 pm to 6.15 pm. It will only happen every so often."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 477824,
      "EditedText": "We could invite Ian Paisley. He was elected under the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 477828,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I was thinking that. We will try to get Professor John Curtice. The other priority is the power of general competence. How do we want to deal with that? Do we want to find out what councils are saying about it first? Do we go that way or another way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 477831,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether it would be possible to find somebody who knows a lot about European local government, who could inform us of the real benefits."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 477834,
      "EditedText": "That is the other question for the minister. We now come to 5 October on the possible interim programme. Do members wish to hear from Richard Kerley then? That is perhaps not the best idea: I think that on 5 October we should examine proportional representation, then we will have Richard Kerley in to brief us. By that time, we will understand the system and have a broader picture. Doing that would give the clerks time to organise for Professor Curtice, representatives of the Electoral Reform Society and others speaking to us.If I have got this right, we will have the Accounts Commission on 15 September; the Minister for Finance on 21 September; the Minister for Communities on 29 September, I hope; and we will discuss PR on 5 October.We will have the Kerley briefing after we have our alleged holiday. I had better not say holiday—rather industrial break or something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 477836,
      "EditedText": "It would not take up the whole meeting. We will cover the McIntosh recommendations in the last part of the meeting. We will be able to refer back to the appropriate paragraphs if we have any problems. We can then put our message to the councils that we are aware of or agree with what they raise and are getting down to the nitty-gritty .How much more of the timetable do members wish to do? We have someone in for 5 October and the first meeting of the committee after the break is on 27 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 477837,
      "EditedText": "We want to be fairly flexible, but we also want to make it known that we wish to examine all other controversial aspects. I see no reason why we cannot put down a marker for the other topics to be discussed between now and December, so that we know that every topic will be covered before Christmas. Keith made some comments about local government being anxious about how we would interact with it on local government legislation. We might wish to do that immediately after the recess: that would take us away from concentrating exclusively on the McIntosh report—although the McIntosh report touches on local government legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 477838,
      "EditedText": "Are you looking at the document with the grid of subjects and priorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 477839,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 477840,
      "EditedText": "If there is no disagreement, we will examine on Wednesday 27 September the items on the grid that we have not dealt with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 477843,
      "EditedText": "Could we invite COSLA to write a draft?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 477849,
      "EditedText": "Yes—and the commission was a small group."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 477852,
      "EditedText": "One of the reasons for the success of the McIntosh report was that the questions were sent out a couple of weeks in advance of visits. People knew what they were going to be asked and had time to consult their colleagues and put together a collective view. The visitors did not get the opinions of just one or two individuals who they met on the day, which could have produced a distorted picture.Members of the McIntosh commission tended to visit in groups of two or three. A group of three would be quite good, because three different parties could be involved. There are 32 councils, including Orkney Islands, Shetland Islands and Western Isles, and we would want to cover as wide a range of local authorities—and as wide a group within that range—as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 477854,
      "EditedText": "We could devise a standard list of questions as a starting point, for example to find out the main problems in the area. It would help if people received the questions in advance.We should start by visiting councils. I accept the point that we would then want to speak to real people—as opposed to people in the councils—but finding out what the councils are thinking and what would satisfy them should be high on our priorities. We could start there and then have a second round of visits to voluntary organisations, local communities and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 477857,
      "EditedText": "When he was summing up, Neil said that it was important to get out and listen to people, so it would be fair to ask him what the most efficient way to do that would be. The clerks or I will speak to him about that.Do we want to sort out the programme until Christmas?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 477860,
      "EditedText": "There is an argument for keeping our agenda flexible as issues will emerge from the initial stages of the process, particularly from the discussion with the Executive and we might want to change our priorities. While it would be useful to have a programme to work to, the danger is that we might have no room to manoeuvre if we have invited people to come and talk to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C477867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Eugene Windsor (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 477867,
      "EditedText": "Matt Smith, of Unison, and George Thorley, of South Ayrshire Council, informed me that we will have them as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 477868,
      "EditedText": "All the papers will come out together—we will have one from Neil McIntosh and one from Arthur Midwinter as well.We will meet the week after next. In the meantime, I will do all the things that you have told me to do—I hope."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C477869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 477869,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:19."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C477742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 1 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12916,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12916,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 477742,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:06"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 1 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12916,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12916,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 477743,
      "EditedText": "Colleagues, I am sure that Bristow has been delayed as we have not had an apology from him, but I think that we should start.I want to start the meeting in a formal way. Keith, I am sorry to put you on the spot, but you were unable to attend our first meeting, at which we all had to declare any interests. To keep us in order, I want to ask you to do that today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 1 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12916,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12916,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 477745,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. In a sense, today's meeting is administrative. I hope that we are about to plan our programme up until as near Christmas as we can. Members will see in their diaries that we do not have a meeting next week and that it will not be possible for us to visit a council, a voluntary organisation or any part of civic Scotland that we may wish to visit because there will not be a meeting of the committee of conveners before then, and they are the ones who have to allow—in inverted commas—any visits to go ahead. So we will have a free day next Wednesday.The first item on the agenda is the McIntosh report and consideration of priorities for the committee; but before we do that, members will see—on page 2 of the covering paper LG/99/2/1—an appendix that shows a possible interim programme. The Accounts Commission had been pencilled in for today's meeting, but it is not coming. Instead, it will come on 15 September—which is not next Wednesday but the Wednesday after. The Minister for Finance is now coming on 21 September. We will try to get Richard Kerley to come on 29 September, which would move the Minister for Communities to 5 October. Alternatively, we could reverse the order of those last two. My opinion is that we should invite the minister sooner rather than later. If members agree, the people and the dates I mentioned can be timetabled in. That would mean that our deliberations on the McIntosh report would be put back by a week.I have received some correspondence that I will have photocopied and sent out to members. Councils have written to us saying that they would like us to visit them, and we have had a fax from the Citizens Advice Scotland saying the same thing and putting forward its case. Some of the correspondence is not relevant to this committee, so I will ask the clerks to have a look at it before sending it out to members.There is also a statement from Jack McConnell on why the Executive has rejected the idea of having an independent review of local government finance. I will have that photocopied and sent to members of the committee in preparation for Mr McConnell's visit to us. We have also had correspondence from the chief executive of Fife Council. He has given us his comments on the McIntosh report. It is easy to read and I will also have that photocopied for members.We said at our first meeting that we would have a library of such documents. This stuff will come to you with your mail. I will let the clerks know if I receive any reports or other documents and they will be able to tell members where to get hold of them.We have also had a letter from the Electoral Reform Society, which would like to come and speak to us. I imagine that we would want to include that in our programme.The Association of Directors of Social Work has also asked to talk to us, but we must look at our programme to see whether that would be appropriate, or whether we should ask it for a written submission. I am not sure that that would be particularly relevant to the McIntosh report.We have also heard from the Federation of Small Businesses. The business rate—if we discuss it—is the obvious subject on which we would like some representation from the federation, but we will decide that as we go along."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 477747,
      "EditedText": "This may be an obvious point, but we want to fit some of the discussions we have about the McIntosh report in with discussion and decisions elsewhere. Some of our priorities would, presumably, be determined by the timetables that have been put in place elsewhere and by whether matters are being progressed early. At the briefing meeting, there did not seem to be any clear timetable for consultation on some aspects of the report. The Kerley committee is clearly working to a fairly strict timetable. I hope that we will discuss what needs to be discussed in time to put it before the groups who are progressing these issues elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 477751,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry that I was not here for the Scottish Executive report at the committee's previous meeting, when my point might have been raised. There is now an advisory panel—I hope that that is the correct term—that will support councils in looking at different ways of conducting their business. There is also the leadership group, which will look at management generally. How did the discussion at the previous meeting go on how we relate to those two groups and the Kerley commission?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 477753,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask a little more about the advisory panel. I understand—I hope I remember yesterday's paper correctly—that the panel will get to work soon. That means that cabinet systems will be a priority area for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 477754,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point. Last week, I pointed out that the Kerley committee had been appointed without the involvement of this committee and that we were not sure what criteria had been used for the appointment of members to that committee. We read in the paper that the leadership advisory panel is being chaired by Alastair MacNish—another appointment that was not brought to the attention of the committee. If the Executive sets up such committees, it should consult this committee to enable us to assess the criteria on which people are chosen. We have set a timetable that will be thrown out of kilter by the fact that, as Sylvia suggested, we will have to liaise with the leadership advisory panel as well. We do not want to have too many balls in the air at once. We need to know exactly what is going on so that we can feed comments back to the relevant committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 477756,
      "EditedText": "I am not good on procedure, so I would like some advice. In the Parliament, Wendy Alexander said that she was going to produce a new paper. Will we have any input? I should have thought that we would, given the relationship between the Executive and the committees. Will it be normal practice for a minister to consult the relevant committee before producing an official response? Should we give evidence to bodies such as the Kerley committee? It would be slightly peculiar for it to give a report to us after having heard evidence from us. I have strong views on the subject that I am happy to give to anyone at any time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 477757,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the Executive report, which Wendy Alexander mentioned, will be out sometime after mid-September. I was given no indication that we would be involved in that but we have asked the minister to speak to us around that time. I would be surprised if the minister spoke to us about something that was not yet public, but I take your point. We can write to the Executive and ask about the points that you have raised.Richard Kerley was keen to come and tell us what he wanted to achieve and how he was going to achieve it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 477759,
      "EditedText": "No. That would be in the part of our report that deals with proportional representation. We would say that we have considered his recommendations and made decisions based on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 477770,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 477772,
      "EditedText": "A report is being prepared for us. I think that it would be wise to read it before anyone appears before the committee. I do not object to having those things happen together, or to having one follow the other. That is a very good idea. They are complex systems, and if there is to be a change—or no change—we must be absolutely sure that we know what we are talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 477773,
      "EditedText": "We all know roughly how they work, but it will give us an opportunity to ask specific questions on the working of the system and on the pitfalls."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 477774,
      "EditedText": "What I suggest may mean that everyone is so busy talking to everyone else that nobody ever does anything, but there is an issue here that affects this committee. Local government delivers education, social work and, to some extent, transport, which come under other committees' remits. Has there been any discussion about sensible liaison so that we co-operate and do not get overburdened by everybody else's minutes or reinvent the wheel?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 477778,
      "EditedText": "There are so many things in the committee system that have to be worked through that we need to remain focused and prioritise what we do. The first priority for us is to examine in some detail the relationship between the Scottish Parliament and local government. We are all anxious that they fit together well, that we do not end up sucking power up from local government, and that the relationship does not break down. There is always a danger that the committee structure is a set-up in which everybody talks about everything all the time, but nothing moves forward. Although we would like to talk about everything all the time, we need to be very clear that the first stage for us has to be responding to the key elements of McIntosh, as has been said already. There will be highways and byways, but everything we do should be focused on McIntosh. Therefore, it is important that people should not just be here but should go out and about a bit—perhaps using alternate Wednesdays to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 477781,
      "EditedText": "Can we move to doing that—trying to prioritise our work? Given what Johann Lamont and Kenny Gibson have said, can we look at the grid of subjects that has been prepared for us and discuss how we would like to prioritise them? The clerk has prepared a list of all the subjects that we have said we should examine at an early stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 477785,
      "EditedText": "It is all tied together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 477788,
      "EditedText": "It is not that I disagree, but were you listing those in order of preference, Kenny?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 477791,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned that we do not duplicate the work of the Kerley commission and take evidence from exactly the same people and produce two reports. This committee should take a view on what Kerley produces but we do not need to do that in advance, we can allow Kerley to take evidence and take cognisance of the report when it is produced. I share the concern expressed about the commission being set up without reference to this committee. However, as it has been set up we do not gain any advantage by duplicating work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 477792,
      "EditedText": "That is right, Bristow, but I am thinking about what Donald said and what Kenny said about putting ourselves in their shoes. Those are the three areas we must look at—there is no question about that. Whether we prioritise in that way is something we can think about. We have to be able quite early on to tell the people who are running councils and delivering services which things they are doing that are really good and that we support, and that, like them, we do not have a great problem with certain parts of the McIntosh report. We should do that to give confidence to them. Our relationship must be good and we have to start building it up.I take the point about finance, PR and general competence—those are the big issues. I am aware of the overlap with the Kerley commission. We talked about that at the beginning and it seemed to me that what was being said was that we will wait, look at the report and then we will make some decisions. But Kerley has to report in February 2000 and by that time, even if we speak only to the Electoral Reform Society, we should have some idea about the different forms of PR and how that would affect things if implemented.As to a problem of separate reports, I do not see us dealing with McIntosh in that way. It is a package and our report has to be a package—we should not separate off PR or finance. We may be able to deal with PR alongside Kerley because, although we will take cognisance of what he finally says, it will be part of a bigger report for us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 477796,
      "EditedText": "When I put my priorities down I was thinking on the same lines as Keith. I think that councils have high expectations of the Parliament and the relationship that they can have with it. On policy, for example, what is coming out about community care and how they are going to reorganise themselves, there is an innovative feel in councils at the moment. We have to take hold of that and work with it, so I second what Keith is saying and Kenny's similar comments earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "McIntosh Report",
      "HeadingID": 12917,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12917,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 477797,
      "EditedText": "Am I not right in saying that the Executive is looking to consult on, for example, a covenant with local government, which may resolve some of those issues? It is difficult, because this is like an octopus with tentacles going in all directions and it is difficult to pin everything down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 477798,
      "EditedText": "We need to pull together a programme. On finances, Johann has a point about discussing with the Executive why it took its decision, given the evidence—albeit for only one day—from important people, including McIntosh himself, who had contributed to the two consultation papers. Every single one of them said the same thing; they were all singing from the same hymn sheet. We need, therefore, to find out exactly what the Executive's reasons were for deciding not to have an independent review. I have looked at the timetable, and the Minister for Finance is due to appear before us on 21 September. We do not have a meeting next week, but members of the Accounts Commission for Scotland will appear before us on 15 September. I am sure that they will say exactly the same thing as the minister. We will try to arrange for the minister responsible for local government, rather than Kerley, to come here on 29 September. Obviously, Jack McConnell was party to the decision to have a review, but it is important for us to know why the minister responsible for local government agreed to it; we need to hear from both of them. We can then move on to other issues relating to finance, on which we need more information—the sort of things that Jamie referred to and that we know about from councils, such as not being able to move money around.As I mentioned, the Accounts Commission for Scotland will appear before the committee on 15 September. That might be the time for us to do what Donald suggested and consider those aspects of the McIntosh report that will not give us problems. That will allow us to make a statement at the end of the meeting on matters that we do not intend to discuss in depth, unless they throw up difficulties at a later stage. I am asking members to do some homework and to decide what parts of the report are fine as they stand; there are two or three, but not many."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 477805,
      "EditedText": "As long as it is not Charlie Gordon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 477806,
      "EditedText": "Okay, on the proviso that it will not be Charlie Gordon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 477808,
      "EditedText": "It would be interesting to invite someone who was able to put the debate on PR into a political context. In an ideal world we would examine the different systems and choose the one that we liked. However, we are working within the context of people being disaffected with politics and not being involved in it.There are also concerns over how many electoral systems we can legitimately use at different levels of government. It would be interesting to invite someone, if there is such a person, who is relaxed about which system we will use, but who will be able to highlight the difficulties arising from having different PR systems for Europe, Westminster, ourselves and local government, and who could tell us whether there are options for having different systems across the country. We are also talking about community councils. Whether there is such a person, who almost has an academic interest in this issue and who can highlight those types of issues to us, I do not know. This is not simply a straight choice between ideal electoral systems; it is also about getting systems to cohere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 477809,
      "EditedText": "McIntosh suggests that there should be a different system in the Highlands, does he not?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 477811,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with the comments that have been made about the way in which members want to address this issue, but we should broaden it, so that we do not talk just about the electoral system, but about the ways of maximising participation in local government elections, because that part of the debate is often forgotten. Increasing participation does not depend solely on the electoral system that we use. We must examine other ways in which we can improve participation in local government elections, and in that way renew democracy in local government. I would like us to examine that strand as well as the electoral system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 477812,
      "EditedText": "McIntosh provides some suggestions on that matter. When we study the recommendations we can determine whether we want to examine that matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 477813,
      "EditedText": "I do not think we need to do that. It is all laid out in McIntosh and I think we will be in agreement with all its recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 477816,
      "EditedText": "It does put us to shame.We want to look, quite rightly, at a much broader picture. There are recommendations in the McIntosh report about how we encourage people to vote. When we go through the list the next time, it may be something on which we all agree. We might even wish to add something to it if we have any ideas.Given what you are saying about PR, however, can I take it that you want to spend the whole of one committee session on PR? Do you want to hear from the Electoral Reform Society, from someone who is against PR and has good reason for it, and from someone with a political overview of the whole thing? Do we want that in the one session, or would you find that too much? Do you want it split between two sessions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 477818,
      "EditedText": "We are starting at 10 am at the moment and finishing at half-past 12. Everything is falling forward, so 5 October is a day on which we could fit that in, before we have—excuse me—yet another holiday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 477819,
      "EditedText": "Allegedly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 477820,
      "EditedText": "Will we be meeting on a Tuesday, or will it always be a Wednesday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 477823,
      "EditedText": "If they are living here they might come."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 477829,
      "EditedText": "We know fairly well what people are saying about the power of general competence, but we need to know why the Executive is concerned about it. I have looked at the matter and I cannot see why it causes any difficulty for anybody. It would be a great boon to local government, which is why all areas of local government appear to be in favour of it. That is another area of finance on which we might want the Executive to explain its concerns. It has said that it wants to consult widely on it, but I understand that the consultation is fairly set. I do not know anybody—from trade unions to SOLACE—who objects to the power of general competence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 477830,
      "EditedText": "When you say the Executive, do you mean that we ask Wendy Alexander when she attends the meeting? Finance and general competence are the two main things that we would like her to discuss with us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 477833,
      "EditedText": "I thought that the case was made very generally at the briefing. The representatives of the Executive were not able to give a response on what was creating the unease and what the timetable for consultation was. Once we know what the difficulties are we might want to address those difficulties and bring people before us on that basis. There is a broad sweep of folk in favour of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 477835,
      "EditedText": "My understanding, from what we were saying earlier, is that the Accounts Commission is not likely to take up the whole meeting on 15 September. Is that the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 477844,
      "EditedText": "COSLA will be writing a draft, as that was the suggestion in the McIntosh report. There is no problem with us asking for sight of the draft when it is completed. We now come to November. I have reservations about listening to the experts—that is, people who put themselves up as experts—and we need to give serious consideration to speaking to councils and to people who use council services. We cannot consider this report properly if we deal only with councils and councillors. The report is about how services are delivered at the point of need, and that is where we need to go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 477850,
      "EditedText": "Kenny nicked half of what I was going to say, because I was going to advocate that we took a similar approach to that used by the McIntosh commission when it took evidence. When the commission went out to a local authority area, it spoke to the local authority directly, but it also structured the day so that evidence was taken from groups in the community. It also publicised meetings that were open to the public, so that people could discuss the proposals. It would be a good idea to get a broad perspective on people's views of how we should progress local government and the McIntosh recommendations. If we are planning to visit particular areas, it might be sensible for the committee to split into groups. The group that visits the particular area could spend a whole day there and speak to a range of individuals and groups in the community. Before we do that, we need to form a clear idea of the questions that we will ask, rather than going out with a blank piece of paper. We must develop some sort of structure, or the feedback will be useless."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 477851,
      "EditedText": "That is how I would envisage organising such visits. For example, if three members—say Kenny, Gil and Bristow—were going out next week to visit a particular council, they would ask other committee members to let them know the issues that they wanted them to find out about.Going out for a day is a good idea, but it is probably not practical unless we are prepared to do so on a Monday or a Friday. It will be almost impossible to organise such visits on other days unless members happen not to have a committee to attend. For example, Bristow and I seem to be on the same committees and it might be possible for us to go on a Tuesday.Visiting in small groups was the option that the conveners decided upon. It would be rare for a whole committee to go on a visit, because of the cost implications; costs would be incurred not only for committee members, but for official reporters and clerks.We also have to get permission from the conveners committee. Some committees are asking for permission now, but we will be doing that—if we do it—in November or December."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 477853,
      "EditedText": "That would be a good way of working. If a group of members planned to visit a particular area, it would be incumbent on group members to speak to other committee members to ascertain what they want to find out about that area. The responsibility would be on members to work together to send questions out in advance. The clerks would ensure that that was done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 477856,
      "EditedText": "We should contact Neil McIntosh or somebody who was involved in the committee and ask what parts of the consultation process worked and what did not. The point was made before: we do not want to repeat what has already been done but we want to learn from it. No doubt members of the McIntosh commission feel that some things could have been done better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 477859,
      "EditedText": "I am not the boss; I just keep you all in line."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 477862,
      "EditedText": "We might need discussion time or a breathing space in between visits from people. We have rather a lot of people coming and talking and we might want to talk as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 477863,
      "EditedText": "I will try to have a space at the end of every agenda to allow us to throw issues about and discuss things in general."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0817564+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 2695
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Forward Plan",
      "HeadingID": 12918,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ID": 12918,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 477865,
      "EditedText": "And a lot of discussion among us.Is there any other business?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Henry McLeish): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 155010,
      "EditedText": "On my right is Nicol Stephen, who is dealing with lifelong learning in particular and with enterprise, and on my left is Alasdair Morrison, who is dealing with the Highlands and Islands and with tourism—an issue that is very much to the fore. That is the ministerial team.As one of the architects of the structure of committees in the Parliament, I want to express my sincere belief that the committees will be the strongest part of the Parliament. I look forward to a constructive relationship with the Parliament. Committees have a tremendously effective role in scrutinising. I make it clear to all members of the committee that we want to work closely with you. This morning, I will outline a number of areas in which we want your immediate participation and response. If there is one area that is vital to the future of Scotland, it is the interface between lifelong learning and enterprise. I will list some of our priority areas and I will then be willing to participate in discussion with the committee.I hope that the atmosphere of our discussion will be one of confidence. That is not the same thing as complacency, but the overall picture in Scotland is such that we should feel confidence in facing the future. At a macro-economic level, we are experiencing low inflation and sound public finances, which are the essential foundations for high and stable rates of economic growth and employment. Scottish exporters are performing resiliently in the face of difficult trading conditions. The level of Scottish manufactured exports rose by 8.3 per cent in real terms in the year to the first quarter of 1999. The July 1999 Confederation of British Industry survey for Scotland indicates that total output is expected to increase over the next four months. The July 1999 Bank of Scotland survey reported that manufacturing output increased for the fifth consecutive month and that export orders increased for the first time since September 1997. Figures have been published this morning that build on the Bank of Scotland's July survey. Service sector business activity increased for the ninth month running, at the fastest rate since March 1998.Unemployment is also low by historical and international standards. The latest figures show that employment is increasing. It is important to note that unemployment is at one of its lowest levels for nearly quarter of a century. There have been recent successes in inward investment. Lunn Poly is responsible for up to 1,000 jobs, Travel Choice for around 400 jobs and this week the Atmel Corporation increased its work force to around 200. There was also the excellent announcement yesterday that Quintiles is to create about 1,500 new jobs.That is not to underplay the unfortunate recent closure announcements, which are obviously distressing for the individuals involved and their families. The challenge is to find new jobs for the communities that are affected and to retrain the work force to benefit from those jobs. In the past two years there have been 19,000 new business starts. The new deal is tackling the problems of the long-term unemployed. For example, 10,100 young people now have sustained employment as a result of the initiative and a further 9,200 have moved into education and training or have found work experience.There has also been a major growth in higher education. More than 50 per cent of our young people go on to some form of higher education and there has been a significant increase in the number of mature and part-time students. There has been similar growth in the further education sector and a number of major initiatives are under way to promote training and lifelong learning, some of which I shall refer to later.Overall, I argue that we have grounds for confidence. The enterprise and lifelong learning department was created to build on that confidence, in recognition of the fact that the economic future depends on enterprise and knowledge, the encouragement of innovation and ideas and the continued development of an educated and skilled work force.It is important to acknowledge that there is a European dimension to the work that we are doing both in lifelong learning and enterprise, that there is a Westminster dimension to both those responsibilities and that this Parliament has real and significant powers to effect positive change. The alchemy—or chemistry—of all this will lead to the best results if we work closely with those three components.Competition in the global economy is intense—every member of the committee will acknowledge that—and technological progress is extremely rapid. We must recognise that change in the economy is a constant and that the key to success is the creation of a culture and a business and learning environment in which we can adapt to that change and seize the economic opportunities that are available, in the interest of creating prosperity and to avoid the damaging effects of social exclusion. We must achieve that environment in ways that are environmentally and socially sustainable. We need to do more to encourage entrepreneurs to start up new businesses. We have set ourselves the target of creating 100,000 new businesses over the next decade. That is partly a question of education, and for that reason we will attach particular importance to the stimulation of an entrepreneurial culture at all levels of the education system by further developing contacts between the world of business and the world of education.A national centre for education for work and enterprise has recently been established at the University of Strathclyde. We are working with Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise to improve the quality and consistency of business support. We have also recently established the business growth fund to support start-up and early-stage businesses. A new business mentoring scheme is planned. As you well appreciate, convener, starting up a business is one thing, but ensuring that it survives and succeeds is another. Our focus should be on nurturing businesses and providing them with every support that we can.All businesses need to be more aware that the economy is becoming increasingly knowledge-driven. We plan to build on the work of the knowledge economy task force, whose report was published in April. I will be leading an initiative to promote awareness of the opportunities of the knowledge economy throughout Scotland. Indeed, the first seminar to explore with local people how the Government can help took place in Inverness last Friday. It will also be important to spell out the risks of failing to embrace the knowledge-driven economy. For example, the development of e-commerce is a threat to local businesses, which could find their markets eroded as customers become familiar with making purchases on the internet. We are not doing well enough in that area. This is a priority for the United Kingdom; I hope that it will be a priority for the Executive and for this committee.The manufacturing sector is particularly important. I am committed to producing a Scottish manufacturing strategy and will be meeting employer organisations and trade unions on 8 September. I expect to produce a strategy by the end of the year. It is necessary to emphasise—we may come back to this during questions—that manufacturing is vital. Concern has been expressed in parts of Scotland that, with the emphasis on the service economy and the recent spate of inward investment, manufacturing is now of secondary importance. Nothing could be further from the truth. Scotland is good at making things, which is why we want to embark on producing this country's first-ever manufacturing strategy. Again, I would warmly welcome the involvement of the committee in that.The knowledge economy task force identified a number of actions to develop the commercialisation of the research base in our higher education institutions. This is a particularly important area. The Executive is making available additional financial support to translate good research into commercial propositions. A special category of awards has been successfully introduced to encourage science-based company start-ups. Under the UK Government's science enterprise challenge, a consortium of Scottish universities has bid to establish a centre of enterprise in Scotland to foster developments in this area. Such a centre—assuming that the bid is successful—will be an important instrument for change. The Scottish Executive will want to work closely with it.Tourism is also a vital industry, with great potential for Scotland. Figures for the United Kingdom for January to May of this year show that spending is 13 per cent more than it was in the same period in 1998. On the other hand, the number of overseas visitors is estimated to be roughly the same as it was in 1998. Along with Alasdair Morrison, I have been consulting widely on a new strategy for tourism, which we would like to publish around the turn of the year. I could go into this in more detail, but I suspect that it will be an area for further discussion.Developing the skill base is also vital to the future of the Scottish economy. Yesterday, at the launch of 1,500 jobs at Quintiles, the bosses of the firm identified human capital—skills and knowledge—as one reason why it came to Scotland. That reinforces our belief that it is in this area that Scotland will achieve success in the next century. It is absolutely vital that we reflect that in our work.The Scottish university for industry will be operational in the autumn of next year; £15 million is available for its development over the next three years. The university will play a vital role in boosting competitiveness and combating social exclusion.As committee members will be aware, we are developing the University for the Highlands and Islands; indeed, after recent visits to southern Scotland, we are considering a university of southern Scotland. That reinforces the general point about the importance of education.Improved technical training is also important. We will therefore give a high priority to the promotion of modern apprenticeships. I hope to be in a position to make a further announcement about that shortly.The key to our approach is the involvement of more and more people in the process of lifelong learning. That lies behind our plan to introduce individual learning accounts, which we plan to launch next year with a target of 100,000 accounts by 2002. Those accounts will help people to invest in their own learning, with contributions from their employers and, in some cases, the state. The details will be announced in due course. Lifelong learning is a concept; I hope that the committee will help me to promote changes in Scottish society and its attitudes so that we can all work on the principle that education is for all. That will require a lot of work and I want to work closely with the committee on it.Similar motives lie behind our wish to improve access to higher and further education. The planned increase in support for mature part-time students on low incomes and the planned increase in access funds will help us. The same motives also lie behind our support for the University of the Highlands and Islands.Financial support for students is clearly an important area of debate, which goes much wider than the argument about tuition fees. That is why we have set up the independent committee of inquiry under Andrew Cubie's chairmanship to examine the issue in detail. It is, as members will be aware from the press, consulting widely. The review is timely, as participation in higher education nowadays is very different from what it was in the past. The picture of the university student going straight from school into higher education tells only part of the story. As I have said, the number of mature students and part-time students has significantly increased and there has been significant growth in the delivery of higher education within our further education colleges. The fact that there are 660,000 students in higher and further education is a success story. Again, I hope, convener, that our work and the work of your committee will increase that number and, more important, enhance the quality of our graduates.In conclusion, I hope that this rapid survey of an important and extensive field of the Scottish Executive's activities has been helpful to the committee. The final point that I want to emphasise is, as I said at the start, how keen my colleagues and I are to work collaboratively with you. We will participate in inquiries and try as hard as we can to provide information that will assist you in your work. I believe that that is the right way forward.After three months of getting involved—visiting companies and going around Scotland—I can say that Scotland should be confident and aspirational. There is a lot going on in industry and in higher and further education to give us a solid base for the future but—and it is a big but—change is taking place so rapidly and technology is accelerating at such a frightening pace that, unless we make a step change to tackle vigorously the challenges, our economic prospects will not be so good. I am signed up for that task, as I am sure the committee is. We look forward to participating in the question and answer session that will now follow. Thank you for the courtesy of inviting us; we are delighted to be here."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155011",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 155011,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Mr McLeish. The committee appreciates the positive stance that you have taken on how the Executive can work with the committee. We have also appreciated the amount of information that your department has made available to us as background briefing for this meeting—that has been extremely helpful.You will be aware that we held an informal meeting last Monday with representatives of various organisations in Scotland, many of which have a close relationship with your department. We appreciated their helpfulness and the frankness with which they spoke about some of the policy issues that need to be resolved.We will want to cover a number of issues and I hope that you will spell out ways in which the Executive and the committee can work in particular areas. Although you have commented on the role of the committee in relation to inquiries on tourism and other aspects of our remit, further information would be appreciated.When talking about the economy, you rightly highlighted the importance of recent announcements, particularly the one about Quintiles. That—along with the comments that were made by an enterprise agency official yesterday—is useful in capturing the nub of one of the problems that we face. The official said that he was optimistic that workers from the Continental Tyres factory, which has had some bad news recently, would find alternative employment at Quintiles. That is an admirable objective but it encapsulates the difficulty of the change from an old technology manufacturing base to a sophisticated high-technology base. How will the Government ease the transition from the old economy to the new one? That seems to be the basis on which the prospects for individuals rest."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155012",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 155012,
      "EditedText": "I agree that a major challenge lies ahead. Recent inward investment announcements have been in biotechnology, smart card technology and call centres—different industries from those that Scotland has traditionally had. However, considering the number of people who are employed by big organisations, we have to work on the transition to the new economy that is looming large.Some traditional areas of industry could—with the benefit of new technology, more efficient processes and more investment—continue into the next century. That is a vital part of what the Executive and Scottish Enterprise want to do. We also want to get employment benefits from the knowledge-economy industries. That could come from higher or further education and the rest of the culture of education that has developed around that economy. Moreover—I suppose that this is the Quintiles issue—we want the knowledge-economy industries to develop in Scotland. Those are the three strands of our strategy. However, it is crucial that we ensure that systems are in place to deal with traditional areas of manufacturing, which are global in nature. You mentioned Continental Tyres. There will be a statement on that this afternoon, following which I will take questions. To put your central question into context, I have to spell out some of the things that we are doing. Volvo has announced that it is closing down its Irvine plant and we are considering that situation. We want another manufacturer to replace Volvo and discussions are taking place between Volvo and an interested player. Obviously, I cannot say much more than that, but it highlights an area of action. Kvaerner Govan is a success story. Excellent work has been done with a willing seller and a willing buyer in a different kind of situation from the one in Irvine. I am involved with Kvaerner Energy in Clydebank and together we are examining three units that employ 700 people and are involved with products, services and traditional manufacturing. We are considering ways of moving forward from that base; bids will come in for those units this week. We will also consider the situation in Bishopton, after an invitation from the Transport and General Workers Union, and continue to work on Continental Tyres.Each of those situations is different in terms of products, futures, people selling and people buying, but they are all to do with manufacturing. We need to tailor our responses to individual circumstances.I want to pinpoint three areas in which the committee will want to give me its views, as we need to take matters forward. This is a new Executive. We have now had a chance to look over what has been happening in all areas—some at first hand, others more from an historical perspective.Next week, we will have our first meeting on a strategy for manufacturing. That strategy will look to the future, but will also encapsulate some of the difficulties that we face. We need the committee to comment on that.Secondly, I have asked that we consider what I call a rapid-response service review. The department and Scottish Enterprise are doing excellent work, but can we do better? We are the envy of most, but I would always look to improving how we respond. Again, that is relevant to the issues that we have talked about.Thirdly, it has been suggested that we develop a labour market unit, which will look more specifically at intelligence in the workplace and in employment generally, so that we can have access to a better range of intelligence when dealing with problems.Those are three positive steps forward and I invite the committee to become involved in supporting them. I apologise for taking so long, but I wanted to set out the wider view of where we are going and to emphasise the need to deal with difficulties—especially in manufacturing—as they arise."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155020",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 155020,
      "EditedText": "I want to switch topics and pick up what you said about the need for better early-warning and intelligence systems, and the rapid response role. I am especially interested in what is happening here in Edinburgh, which is at the hub of the tourism strategy, as that will be the biggest earner. Our overview on what is happening in e-commerce should be as sharp as possible. We have to take risky decisions. For example, there is talk of developing Princes Street in Edinburgh. I am sure that you know that there are various plans, but they seem to be running counter to a growth in e-commerce, which is the biggest area of trade growth. As the minister, what role do you play? You said to us that you have great powers to lever change within this Parliament."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155025",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 155025,
      "EditedText": "Have the questions changed?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155027",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 155027,
      "EditedText": "I suspect that you have just answered the question that I wanted to ask, which relates to e-commerce and the need for it to be developed. As you said earlier, e-commerce moves Scotland's businesses into a new situation, in that they will have to compete on a global basis, via the internet. I am concerned by reports that Scotland is beginning to slip behind in developing e-commerce, which, as you say, needs to be developed rapidly and urgently. This is a one-off opportunity. If we do not encourage Scotland's businesses to take it now, they will be unable to do so in future.I wonder how much awareness there is in Scotland's business community of the impact on businesses of e-commerce and the internet. As you said,  that applies not only to high-technology companies, but to butchers, florists, hairdressers and everyone else. I welcome any comments that you have."
    },
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    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155029",
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      "EditedText": "That is very helpful."
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    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155034",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 155034,
      "EditedText": "In relation to your first point, I am not content with anything. One of the privileges that ministers have is that we are never complacent enough to become content. That is my motto.Neither the initial paper that we sent to committee members nor my presentation today focused on the structure of the local enterprise companies, but we will always consider ways to review enterprise structures at national and local level. I thought that we should concentrate on the substantive issues in which the local enterprise companies are involved rather than re-examine their structures. I assure the committee that, if it decides to examine that area, I should be delighted to know the facts that emerge. Scottish Enterprise does good work, as do the local enterprise companies, but that does not mean that there is no room for improvement. Elaine mentioned accountability, which is a difficult issue. All local enterprise companies are accountable to me, but MSPs and other interested parties might not think that that is the best line of accountability. The small business community does not feel that it is as involved as it should be. I have asked the Federation of Small Businesses and the Forum of Private Business to give me evidence of that and I am willing to work on it. I have an open mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 155037,
      "EditedText": "As you mentioned at the outset of the discussion, there is a broad remit to cover. We have talked about enterprise for quite some time and I want to move on to discuss aspects of higher and further education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 155054,
      "EditedText": "I thought that I would remind you of that. There will be concordats covering every aspect of the relationships that we will have. There are policy areas that are reserved to Westminster; but I agree with members of the committee that it is crucial that our voices are heard—indeed, the Executive's voice is already being heard. The new deal task force, chaired by Ian Robinson, is working with me; we in turn are working with Andrew Smith and David Blunkett on all those important issues. A committee input would be worth while."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 155045,
      "EditedText": "Marilyn has drawn the committee's attention to the strong collaboration in Fife between further education colleges and Fife Enterprise, in the delivery of educational training and support to that age group. Do you have any views on that work that you have seen locally?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 155053,
      "EditedText": "I enjoyed them very much."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 155063,
      "EditedText": "One area, Henry, where there is no dispute over your department's competence and its powers is in achieving the very credible target you have set of 20,000 modern apprenticeships. Following Duncan's point about the introduction of the right to paid time off for 16 and 17-year-olds, the modern apprenticeships are a very important step towards securing that aim. We also met with the social partners involved in employment-based training and, while there was perhaps a difference of opinion on the exact volume of employment-based training taking place in Scotland, there was consensus that there was not enough of it, which is a view that I know you share, as does your department. How are we going to encourage more employers to support 16 to 18-year-olds in training? Does that inevitably mean a greater integration between further education and employment-based training?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 155065,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that the figure of 20,000 is a global target—that there will be 20,000 modern apprenticeships in total, rather than 20,000 more modern apprenticeships?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 155067,
      "EditedText": "Where is the difficulty in raising the numbers, Henry? Is it in small or in big companies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 155069,
      "EditedText": "Minister, in your preliminary remarks on manufacturing strategy, you mentioned an intended review of the situation in Bishopton. May we infer from that that you anticipate defence work either ceasing or continuing to be part of the manufacturing base in that area?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 155070,
      "EditedText": "We have been invited by the Transport and General Workers Union to participate in a group that it is trying to establish, and in correspondence the First Minister has agreed, that the TGWU should meet the Executive. That is as far as it goes. The situation has not changed, and the plant is due to close. The TGWU has come up with some ideas that it wants to discuss with various parties. There is no commitment beyond having it meet the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C155071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 155071,
      "EditedText": "I have a further question about modern apprenticeships. I notice that women and ethnic minorities are under-represented in the skillseekers programme and modern apprenticeships. I am interested to know what might be done to determine why that is, and to encourage more participation from both women and people from ethnic minorities.There is a second part to my question. Much of the current thinking and strategy for developing a knowledge economy is to encourage more people to get involved in information technology and to be IT literate. I am concerned that the number of women who are getting involved in that area—certainly in the higher education sector—is dropping rather than increasing.Finally, I was pleased to hear you say, minister, that you will be trying to encourage more employers to offer modern apprenticeships in information technology. I notice from the information that has been given to us that in March this year there were no modern apprenticeships started in information technology. I welcome your comments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C155073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 155073,
      "EditedText": "Earlier this morning, minister, you talked briefly about unemployment and training and the difficulties that are faced in some areas. I have a particular bee in my bonnet about the fact that many of our older-style industries—which you mentioned this morning—have work forces with skills that are going to become out of date. We also have evidence that the oil and gas industries are beginning to slip and that has been made very clear to me—and also to you, minister—in recent meetings. Does the Executive have plans to move from taking a reactive role to a proactive one in looking ahead at particular industries that are running down or that may be at risk, either because of foreign investment opportunities elsewhere or because of a shift in technology? I hope you will you bring us up to date on that because it is an issue of major importance, not just in the regions, but in particular industries."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 155077,
      "EditedText": "I asked for brief questions, Fergus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 155078,
      "EditedText": "I could simply say no, no, no and no. The Federation of Small Businesses submits many ideas to us. We accept some of them—I did so during a constructive meeting with the federation recently—but I cannot respond to Fergus Ewing's suggestions in the way that they have been projected, although the issues are of interest and concern to the federation and all small businesses.In my initial comments, we talked about new businesses and the business growth fund to support start-ups. We have an amazing range of business activities such as Scottish Enterprise, local enterprise companies and the industry department, all of which are focused on small businesses. Almost all businesses in Scotland employ fewer than 50 workers. It would be a foolish Government that did not devote a considerable amount of time and investment to those businesses. We take small business seriously. It is a fundamental part of our programme and there will be continuing decisions on the points that Fergus Ewing has raised. We want new businesses to be created and to survive and, as small business has an enormous contribution to make to Scottish society and prosperity, I want to link up closely with that sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 155080,
      "EditedText": "We are experiencing difficulties in tourism. Last year was particularly bad for the industry, especially in terms of Scottish people using Scotland as a destination. You mentioned, minister, that the spend is up 13 per cent on 1998 and the level of overseas visitors is the same as it was in 1998. Although that year was also a bad year, your figures indicate an improvement in the situation.What are the figures on Scottish people using Scotland as a holiday destination?As part of the consultation process, you are examining the funding mechanisms for the Scottish Tourist Board. Does your department yet have a view on whether funding should still be routed through local councils?Will the relationship between the Scottish Tourist Board and the British Tourist Authority be examined in terms of Scotland's promotion overseas? Does that promotion concentrate enough on Scotland, given that its work is done under a British flag?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155082",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 155082,
      "EditedText": "The CSR funding structure creates a three-year cycle within which that would be possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 155084,
      "EditedText": "That puts a responsibility on the Executive which would be passed on to local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 155089,
      "EditedText": "Usually on bigger pieces of paper. I hope that this matter can be resolved speedily. It has been hanging around for some time and I want to make a commitment to the ATBs. I am more than sympathetic to what they are asking me, but before we move, we must complete the consultation. This issue may be represented in the large number of responses that we have received. If so, we can take it forward. It is one of the key issues that I have identified.The third question was about the British Tourist Authority. Marketing is crucial, but there are conflicting views. The Forum of Private Business has commented that it wants less spent on attracting overseas business and more on attracting UK visitors to Scotland. Part of the consultation asks what the marketing strategy is, how effective it is, and whether there are ways in which we can make positive changes to attract more international customers. We already attract visitors from America, France, Germany, Belgium and Japan. We focus our worldwide marketing on countries that deliver tourists to Scotland. One of the discussion points is whether we go wider than that, or whether we maximise on those areas. I want views on that. I have no closed views on whether enough is being done vis-à-vis the British Tourist Authority, or on whether we need to complement what is being done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 155094,
      "EditedText": "I would like you to pause just there, minister. In its informal deliberations last week, the committee felt—as had we all individually through our constituency work—that it would be valuable to extend the period of consultation because of the summer holiday period and the fact that it is so busy for many in the tourism sector. I have written to you about that recently. Do you have anything to say to the committee about a possible extension to the time scale?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 155095,
      "EditedText": "In the spirit of partnership, that would be a good idea. We are delighted with the profile that has been given to tourism. It should have happened years ago, but it did not. The response we have had in four weeks has been overwhelming—more than 300 representations. Alasdair Morrison is still meeting people throughout Scotland and the STB is still holding focus group meetings to examine some of its work. We want to give maximum opportunity. I do not want any one to go away from this exercise thinking that they had not been given a chance. I would therefore like to suggest to you, convener, in response to your letter, that we extend the consultation period to the end of September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 155099,
      "EditedText": "Fergus Ewing suggested that there should be a minister for tourism. When I speak to organisations, they are delighted that tourism is, for the first time, a mainstream economic issue in Scotland—unlike in Westminster, where it is part of the Department of Culture, Media and Sport. Tourism is a £2.5 billion industry, Fergus, and it is at the heart of what we are doing. It employs 200,000 people and it has a big future as one of the biggest and fastest-growing industries worldwide. Although Alasdair has taken the lead role, I do not want tourism to be separate. As good links exist between higher and further education, which is crucial for skills and industry generally—the enterprise brief and the Scottish Enterprise brief—tourism is at the heart of this ministry's agenda. Whether in marketing, skills development or extending tourism to rural areas, there is huge potential. To those who think that having a minister for tourism would help, I say that it would do the opposite. Work is being done, this committee will also be heavily involved in tourism and I think that that will bring success to the tourism industry.Fergus Ewing mentioned VAT on fuel. I am sure that the submissions we will receive will raise that issue. I have not seen the submission that Fergus Ewing talked about. That will be part of the consultation and we await with interest what people will say on those important subjects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 155100,
      "EditedText": "Does the minister recognise that high fuel prices may affect people's decisions about whether to come to Scotland on holiday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 155103,
      "EditedText": "I hope that the decision to extend will become known through this committee's deliberations today, but we will make it more formally known that we want the maximum response. That is why we are extending the time period, in response to the letter from the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 155104,
      "EditedText": "Members of the media are present, and I am sure they will have been able to follow your remarks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 155105,
      "EditedText": "I know that the minister does not want to say anything about Edinburgh. If—as I suspect—he does not have a response from business on the tourism strategy and the development of e-commerce, could he drum up a bit of research and get somebody on to that now? That could be evaluated as part of how we approach tourism and shopping because, for the cities, that is a huge element of tourism."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 155109,
      "EditedText": "Given the minister's recent tour of Scotland, he will recall his meeting at Prestwick. We commend to the minister—as was commended to us—the British Aerospace-Prestwick airport regeneration model. It could perhaps be considered as a basis for more widespread regeneration in areas where a rapid response is necessary. Will the minister give us his view on that prospective model?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 155111,
      "EditedText": "In his briefing note, the minister states that the Scottish renewables obligation is to bring forward 150 megawatts more of renewables. I take it that that is the allocation for the next 10 years as is currently being decided within the UK. I have had a lot of lobbying from some of the renewable energy groups that that figure is much too low. They believe that we should fight for a much higher level to allow development of wind and wave energy during the next 10 years. Is the minister satisfied that he is fighting for the right level? Wave energy is in its infancy. A new wave energy machine is about to be constructed on Islay and it is due to come on stream in the next couple of months. Are we as Scotland plc and ministers as the Scottish Executive, doing enough to encourage that technology? There is a feeling in the renewables sector that we missed the boat on wind technology"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 155116,
      "EditedText": "With the greatest courtesy, convener, both questions are slightly hypothetical in the present context. I expect that, on its conclusion, the report will be delivered to the Executive. The question of Cabinet responsibilities and decisions was covered in the press recently. Those apply, but the most important thing at the moment is to ensure that the whole of Scotland responds to the consultation process and moves away from the issue as a strictly political one to one that is fundamental to the future of higher and further education in Scotland. The debate is not only about tuition fees but will tackle some of the issues that the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives raised about hardship and maintenance grants. For the first time, the debate will go beyond the aspiration of the Robbins committee in the 1960s and will make Scotland the context within which we can build on the mere 8 per cent of people from social classes 4 and 5 who are entering higher and further education. If we have an aspiration about widening access, it is to ensure that more young people from social classes 3, 4 and 5 participate in higher and further education. My main aim is to ensure that the inquiry is built on solid foundations, and while no detailed arrangements have been made about its arrival, debate and discussion, that will be considered over the coming period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 155120,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that courtesy. I look forward to working closely with the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155061",
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      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 155061,
      "EditedText": "Last week I asked Alan Sinclair if he could make available to us the text of a letter that the task force has submitted to the UK government. I understood that it was going to be made freely available to all members of the committee. Because of the expertise and the direct experience of the new deal task force, their recommendations will tend to have more weight and merit than those of the rest of us who have not had that experience. Since then a question has arisen as to whether the text of the letter will be made available to MSPs—something that does not accord with the spirit of freedom of information. I gather that Ian Robinson is currently considering the matter. Will the minister use his influence with him to make available the text of that letter so that we can see exactly what the task force says, which may be constructively critical of the new deal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:02.9509109+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 155092,
      "EditedText": "Minister, I believe that hard evidence in relation to the tourism review was submitted to you yesterday by the Highlands of Scotland Tourist Board—or HOST—which is one of the area tourist boards. Part of its submission is that there has been a substantial reduction in the number of visitors to the Highlands and Islands, which in its view has been caused by three things: the high value of the pound; Britain's value added tax rate, which is the second highest in Europe; and the fact that Scotland and the UK has the highest level of fuel duty in the European Union.The representations were not made by the SNP but by HOST, and they were endorsed by that organisation's Argyll counterpart in a letter to The Scotsman today. What is the minister's personal view on that? What representations will he make to Gordon Brown about the grievous damage those taxes do to Scotland's economy?I also have two easier questions. Will Mr McLeish review the decision not to have a minister for tourism? That would not be expensive to implement and it would be welcomed with open arms as evidence of the seriousness with which the Executive takes tourism in Scotland. The Scottish Affairs Select Committee expressed disappointment that there is no minister solely responsible for tourism.There is also concern that the Scottish Tourist Board might conduct the review. Many people to whom I have spoken have various criticisms of the board in regard to what it does and its organisation. Can the minister allay those concerns by telling the committee that the STB will be in the same position as HOST, for example, and that it will make a submission to the review rather than conduct it? I would expect that review to contain many criticisms from others in the industry of the Scottish Tourist Board's input."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 1 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3522,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 155008,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:32"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 1 September 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John Swinney): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 155009,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I open the proceedings of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee this morning by welcoming committee members, members of the public and the media. I particularly welcome the minister, Mr McLeish, and his colleagues. We are joined today by David Davidson and Helen Eadie, who, although not members of the committee, are members of the Parliament who have expressed an interest in the committee's work. I welcome their participation, which, of course, is subject to their catching the convener's eye.I invite Mr McLeish to introduce his team and then to make a statement on the priorities of the enterprise and lifelong learning department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 155013,
      "EditedText": "Your point about the rapid-response unit and the room for improvement in that area is welcome. Other members of the committee will want to probe how that relates to a possible redirection of the enterprise networks. From the information with which you have provided us, I notice that you are basically comfortable with the areas that those networks cover.Before giving other members of the committee an opportunity to speak, I want to make one more point about manufacturing. It concerns external factors. You referred to the European dimension, the Westminster dimension and the Scottish dimension. That is taken as read. However, what about currency factors, which are outwith the province of this Parliament and which can make manufacturing circumstances very difficult? What representations can be made, and how effective can this committee and your department be in providing a base of competitiveness for Scottish-based companies that is not undermined by the strength of sterling?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 155016,
      "EditedText": "Earlier I said that, despite the difficult trading conditions that some manufacturers have experienced, we have seen exports rise in the first quarter of this year by 8.3 per cent. That bears comparison with the figures for 1998 and 1997, each of which is above £18 billion. It is quite clear that, despite the difficult trading conditions, our manufacturers have looked to ways of improving productivity, improving efficiency and ensuring that difficulties in the marketplace are overcome. The fact that our industries have been doing so well in difficult conditions reflects very positively on their future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 155017,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise some issues with you, minister, about the development of the knowledge economy. However, before I move on, I want to comment on your previous remark. Some industries are managing to cope with the strength of sterling, but that is by no means the case across the full spectrum of industry. As you are probably aware, quite a number of our industries have been brought almost to their knees because of the strength of sterling. The picture is not all bad, however, and, I hope, some of the holes can be dealt with.There are three areas that I would like to address regarding the knowledge economy. The first is the transfer of knowledge to spin-off companies, which is where Scotland gains real benefits—it is where knowledge is developed into real ideas that have commercial possibilities. Some of the universities have said that there seems to be a hole in the funding allowances to develop ideas into commercial projects that a company would take up. I believe, minister, that your department has looked at that issue. Could you give us a detailed framework of what you are trying to do? Secondly, we heard in last week's committee that one of the big problems facing the Scottish economy is risk aversion in the financial sector. That is part of the discussion about how we can benefit from the pure knowledge that we have in Scotland—how we can develop it into commercial prospects with real companies and real jobs. How do we address the problem of risk aversion?The third issue that came through strongly in the submissions that we received last week was, again, the culture problem in Scotland—the fear of failure and the stigma of bankruptcy, which is a risk for so many who may wish to develop their own companies. We have a cultural problem in that we view failure as damning—it is seen as an indictment of people for the rest of their days—whereas in countries such as the United States the view is that the person has the experience to sort out problems the next time round. Those are three crucial questions in the development of the knowledge economy and I wonder what steps your department is taking to address them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 155019,
      "EditedText": "This is an area in which concise answers are most appropriate. The first point is valid. We are concerned that, to put it simply, getting products from the lab to the workplace remains difficult for Scotland, although progress has been made. I want a greater coming together of Scottish Enterprise and the higher education institutions. They are in dialogue, but it is not enough. That will be the first step. Secondly, the Government is involved. For example, this morning we launched a number of projects with a £1.7 million innovation prize to encourage leading-edge technology in small companies. So the Government can do—and is doing—its part.Thirdly, next week we will launch a paper on the future of science. From scholars right through to graduates we are not getting enough people involved in the science base. There are 52,000 graduates, but as a proportion, general areas of science are declining against the total. We need to do something about that, and apart from my speech on the science strategy, we need to establish a science body in Scotland that will take ownership of those issues. The committee will want to see the work that I am doing on that, and to comment on it.Fourthly, Scotland is well served by individual universities. We are world leaders in a number of areas, including biotechnology. Work is being done at Heriot Watt on front-end technology in oil and gas, and at Glasgow on the medical side. Each university is working well, but by coming together we can get a greater contribution to the Scottish economy than currently. The point is well made. Things are happening with Scottish Enterprise and with the Executive, but as I said earlier, the step change must happen more quickly, and that will be one priority area in which we will be involved. Mr Lyon raised a point about risk aversion. We could be involved in a long philosophical debate on that, but time is not on our side. We must take the point that—as in America and other countries—people take risks. One can take risks with private capital or, sometimes, with public capital. However, there is a culture that says that unless you can provide security to a very high degree, nothing will happen. I am not sure, apart from the steps that we are taking, that there is a speedy response to that. Nevertheless, attitudes must change, and I want to stress publicly that attitudes are crucial to everything that we are doing in every aspect of the knowledge economy. I was at a launch in North Ayrshire, at which the EDI Group linked with North Ayrshire Council and set up a technology ventures initiative to attract call centres. That is a coming together of key skills. Initiatives that make better use of venture capital and whereby local authorities provide some security can happen throughout Scotland, and can break down the risk aversion in this country.With regard to George Lyon's point on the culture of failure, I said earlier that Scotland should be a confident country. We have problems, and we will tackle them, but we must trade on our strengths, which are formidable. The transition between the economy that we have now and the economy that we need to have in 10 years' time will be difficult. It will be up to us as political leaders to try to shape it. There is an attitude problem, but we must believe in ourselves. It is a simple point, although belief in ourselves is difficult to quantify. I take on board the points that the convener and George Lyon made, that not only the Executive but the committees of the Parliament can help with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 155022,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in how you will use those great powers to lever the change from the shopping centre that has been developed to attract tourists to the new type of tourism and shopping that we will have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 155028,
      "EditedText": "I want to embrace the comments that were made by Elaine Thomson and Margo MacDonald. I am frustrated that we are not moving as quickly as we should. As has been said, that is partly because many people in business think that e-commerce and the internet are all about high-tech and sophistication, and are, therefore, not for them. However, technically, e-commerce can be applied to any business, because the trading nature of products is due to change quite dramatically.An important bill has been published at Westminster, which tries to address some of the issues around security and people's inability to understand the system. However, when I was in Greenock last week I spoke to some of the senior managers of IBM, who again flagged up the point that, worldwide, countries are making tremendous strides, and expressed concern that we are not. That was a wake-up call to me and to Scotland that we need to be doing more. Scottish Enterprise is now actively working on moving the process forward.In the presence of this important committee and the press, I would like to take the opportunity to issue a wake-up call to Scotland. E-commerce is not for somebody else—it is for us. It is reasonably underdeveloped at the moment, but if we do not get a foothold in the technology and the trading areas to which it relates, we will not be well served in the next century. I intend to get more details of what Scottish Enterprise is doing, and will furnish them to members of the committee."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 155030,
      "EditedText": "I was particularly interested in the comment in the minister's statement of priorities on the need to promote entrepreneurial culture generally, especially in schools, by maintaining strong links between business and education. I applaud that approach, but I am interested in how you anticipate fleshing it out. What will you do if, for example, local business that is trying to work in conjunction with schools informs you that what it is getting back is—for its purposes—irrelevant or inadequate? Do you anticipate allowing the business community to influence the education that is provided?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 155032,
      "EditedText": "Your points about the attitudes towards entrepreneurship are important and were well made, but there are problems with the ways in which enterprise support is made available. Elaine Murray would like to pursue that point."
    },
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  },
  {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 155035,
      "EditedText": "I understand the point that has been made about structures, but there are issues of performance, which you touched on in your previous answer, that are material to delivering the ambitions that you set out today. Those ambitions might be compromised by the inappropriateness of structures, by performance or by the ability to push performance through an effective channel of accountability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 155036,
      "EditedText": "I talked to you earlier about the areas in which the committee would have an interest. I am always interested in every aspect of government and in value for money that is linked to some form of output-related activity. To be fair to all the activities that I talked about, there are channels of accountability. However, my constant exhortation to everyone is that if we are spending £1, I want to get £1.10 in return. That is an issue that the committee might want to consider. We will be supportive in helping the committee in that.In terms of the priorities that lie ahead, I would not want the department to be involved in a substantial review that would absorb a lot of energy. On the other hand, I know from your private comments, convener, and from other comments by members, that there are concerns about accountability. However, at the end of the day, let us have the evidence and let us not go anywhere as a Government or as a committee without considering the evidence. Much of that evidence is anecdotal, but it is an area that members of the committee might want to consider further.I want to respond briefly to the other two points. I take again the points about science. Science is an abstract concept, but it is the base of the knowledge economy, a base for getting more people into higher education and a base that I want to see schools responding to better. The strategy will be crucial in bringing all that together.The final point was about how we get the higher education institutions more intimately involved in small business development and manufacturing. First, that approach cannot be exclusive to the central belt. I take on that role. I have been to enough parts of Scotland to know that the Parliament can make a difference, because it has substantial representation from all over Scotland. Secondly, we are working out new ways of ensuring that higher education and enterprise are close to one another, rather than at a distance. We also want to encourage the small business community, through our SMART awards and a whole range of other schemes. Again, it is a question of attitude. In the past, business has been about business and education has been about education. By setting up an integrated department—the first in the UK and possibly the first in Europe—we can start to break down some of those barriers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 155040,
      "EditedText": "The issue of coherence has struck us all because of the discussions that we have had with various organisations. Marilyn Livingstone has raised those points with us already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C155041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 155041,
      "EditedText": "I wish to continue with the issue of coherence. We have discussed large funding increases for the further education sector, and we have said a lot about delivering training in situ, which benefits people from remote areas, those who feel disaffected or those who feel that large educational establishments are not for them. Funding is going into further education colleges, local enterprise companies, companies themselves and training providers: how can we ensure that they maximise the use of that funding and that all players are working together to deliver for the needs for the community?My second point is more specific and relates to the Beattie report. I know that it will be launched on 10 September and do not wish to pre-empt its recommendations, but we are interested in what additional support will be given for the transition to post-school educational training for people with special training needs and, importantly, for those with a profound learning or physical disability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 155048,
      "EditedText": "Duncan McNeil has raised a number of important issues. The new deal is a very effective programme and the figures speak volumes about its quality. More people are taking advantage of the further education aspects of the new deal in Scotland than in other parts of the United Kingdom. However, I agree with him that the mix is important. What we have not yet got quite right is the post-16 situation. We should be developing programmes in which people can make choices about training without those choices being constrained because the course they want to pursue is not funded by a particular programme.To be proactive about this matter, I will soon be asking my officials to examine all the post-16 financing. It is people's inability, not to get on to certain courses but to get finance, that prevents them from doing what Duncan McNeil suggests. His suggestion complements what we intend to do—to take a radical look at financial support for people's training choices.I agree with what Duncan McNeil said about learning centres. Learning centres have mushroomed and they contribute positively to changing attitudes and helping the work force.I do not often make overtly political points, Convener, and I shall try to avoid doing so now. During the past 20 years, however, some people have failed to recognise that the most valuable resource for industry is the employees in every company in the country. That is now being recognised by progressive employers, but I want that attitude to be strengthened. That is why we are having discussions with the Scottish Trade Union Congress and with individual trade unions about their participation in developing some of the ideas that Duncan McNeil has mentioned. A partnership between employers and employees is vital and will serve us well. I assure the committee that I shall take an even-handed approach and discuss the issue with everyone who will be involved in developing such projects.Mr McNeil also mentioned taking time off to study or to train. That scheme, part of Westminster's legislative programme, starts on 1 September and will involve 16 and 17-year-olds. Lifelong learning does not stop at 17, and we want there to be lifelong learning for all. That is in keeping with the suggestion that we should try to evolve those schemes to give people greater incentives and more encouragement. The individual learning accounts that we are developing will be part and parcel of that project. We hope to get 100,000 of them off the ground soon, and finance is available for that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 155050,
      "EditedText": "I understand the committee's interest in the complexities of the matter. Apart from the new deal, the skillseekers initiative and employment zones, we have a whole range of policy areas with which the committee will want to be better acquainted. The new deal is a matter of policy and legislative competence that is reserved to Westminster, but there is flexibility, and that can lead to constructive dialogue. The department will give the committee members a paper on that topic in order to hear your responses. That will be another opportunity for us to work together to see how some of the concerns about the new deal can be wedded into some of the policies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 155059,
      "EditedText": "We would certainly appreciate some further guidance from the department about the degree of policy discretion that exists. The new deal may not suit particular conditions in the Scottish economy, and some of the points concerning flexibility that Duncan McNeil has raised could be addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 155064,
      "EditedText": "On the latter point, that is a development that will clearly take place. As you know, we have a new target of 20,000 modern apprenticeships by 2003; the previous target was 15,000. There are currently just over 10,000 and that figure is not growing rapidly. It is an area that we are looking at very closely and a lot of effort has gone into getting the new modern apprenticeships up to that level, but it would appear that to climb further is going to require much more effort on everyone's part, especially by business and enterprise and industry. That is one of my current concerns. We are looking at that and I hope I can share with the committee quite soon some of the ways we want to try to move that forward.People in Scotland have always talked about apprenticeships, often in relation to traditional industries. We are also keen to develop modern apprenticeships in the new knowledge economy industries. There are a lot of apprenticeships in engineering and electronic engineering. Those are areas that we want to develop. However, my main interest at the moment, besides the quality of the schemes, is the need to ratchet up interest throughout Scotland. We want to hit our targets, not for the sheer hell of it, but because that will ensure that 20,000 young people are involved in the creative industries of the future, as well as in traditional industries. We are working on that at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 155066,
      "EditedText": "The target was 15,000 by 2002, and it is now 20,000 by the end of this Parliament, in 2003. This is one area where we would genuinely welcome the scrutiny and views of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 155068,
      "EditedText": "Whenever something is introduced there is an initial surge in interest, which then tends to plateau out. That is what is happening here.In all our discussions today we could have earmarked small business as one sector that has particular difficulty in taking on young people, although many such businesses do so. We need to find ways for small businesses to take advantage of the scheme, because they could provide some excellent training. However, there are also big companies in Scotland that could do more."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 155072,
      "EditedText": "The question involves an aspiration. There is no doubt that we need to do a great deal more to encourage ethnic minority involvement, and we, along with the Department for Education and Employment, are actively seeking to do that. The problem affects not only participation in the new deal—we have difficulty involving some ethnic minority groups in a wide range of government activities. It is not unique to Scotland, but affects the whole United Kingdom.We are trying to address the problem in a number of ways. I could provide details, but the main point is that we want young people from ethnic minorities to have the confidence to participate and need the mechanisms to instil that confidence in them. We are working with civic leaders and a whole range of ethnic minority organisations, especially in Glasgow, to put those mechanisms in place. Just after taking up the job of Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning, I went to speak to an ethnic minority business group, which was keen to get involved in the programmes. The group will be bonding with young people in the community to take that forward.Linking IT to apprenticeships is vital. It is one of the issues that concern me, because if modern apprenticeships are to mean anything, there must be jobs available beyond the apprenticeship. I would like to think that in the new knowledge economy we will be able to develop information technology further. The idea is to get quality apprenticeships in whatever sector, but there will certainly be a push to get them in the areas that Elaine Thomson has mentioned.The final point was about the participation of women in information technology. I do not have to hand figures that would enable me to confirm Elaine Thomson's assertion, but suffice it to say that all the colleges have open policies and that there is an enormous number of women in further education. Crucially, as a result of the labour market revolution, in most parts of Scotland there are more women employed than men. Never in this century has there been a time when the number of women in work was greater than the number of men. The current situation has a whole host of implications for child care, social policy and, I hope, further education. We must ensure that expanding job opportunities for women result in an expansion of education and training opportunities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 155074,
      "EditedText": "We are not moving—we are already there. I hope that the committee will see from the submissions this morning and from further dialogue that, in terms of individual company concerns, we are very proactive on a broad front. To flesh that out, I can tell the committee that we have economic forums in the Borders and Ayrshire, as well as in Dumfries and Galloway, where for want of another name they are calling it a working group.Yesterday, we were in Clackmannanshire, where an extra £500,000 has been invested and where the Scottish Executive is getting involved in a partnership. In terms of individual companies and localities in Scotland, we are extremely proactive.The challenge is how to handle the transition from where we are now to where we are likely to be in the future, because of global changes and global technology. It is crucial that first we get people round the table for discussion and then move towards a manufacturing strategy. That is considering the future, which is what we are about.However, I am conscious that there are different companies at different stages of development in different industries throughout the length and breadth of Scotland. No Government or Executive has access to, or is involved with, the overwhelming majority of companies in Scotland, because they are in the private sector and do not want to be involved in Government. Those companies are creating prosperity and jobs and that is quite right.After considering where we are, I think that we do a very good job in terms of responding, but we could always do better. That is why I am talking about creating the labour market unit next year. Equally important is the rapid response service. However, the rapid response service is only as good as the information that we receive from companies. Some companies that are in difficulty will not come to the Government for help.Yesterday, when we heard that Kvaerner was again shedding labour worldwide, I rang Nora Radcliffe, the Liberal Democrat MSP for Inverurie, to discuss the matter. That is an example of one aspect of rapid response. There are a few elements to rapid response inclusivity that we want to improve and develop. The Executive is very keen to learn from experience and not only to build the best facilities that it can for new industries, but to alleviate the problems faced by existing ones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 155075,
      "EditedText": "I will take two more, brief, questions before we move on to tourism, which will be the final topic for discussion today."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 155081,
      "EditedText": "We will try to get the first set of figures for you, but I will deal with the other questions first. Yes, a consultation is under way and we want to examine the funding mechanism. The biggest criticism that I hear from the area tourist boards is about the machinery for funding them. Some funding is delivered through local authorities. Some ATBs are happy with that, because their local authorities give them more than we do in direct funding. The main concern arises when local authorities do not provide the support that the ATBs expect. As part of the consultation, I have asked for evidence to show that, if the funding arrangements are changed, that would be an improvement and performance would be better. Linked to that is the crucial matter of long-term planning, which, I know from representations, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities is considering. It understands that organisations that want to do a decent job of work—such as the ATBs—need some certainty. They do not know from year to year what their funding will be. That is bad enough, but no medium-term planning can be done either, because the funding might change. I have a great deal of sympathy with that position, and I would like to say publicly that I want ATBs to be able to operate on at least a three-year cycle. That is the case for comprehensive spending review funding for local government. I also, however, want hard evidence that if the system is changed the result will be more convenient and have a better impact on the work that ATBs are doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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      "ID": 2028,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 155083,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is my point. The context exists and we are trying to extend it to many other areas of government. It is crucial, if we want to make an impact on tourism, that ATBs should be able—perhaps not down to the last penny—to identify their income for the next three years and to plan accordingly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155087",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 155087,
      "EditedText": "Excuse me, George. I am just issuing an Executive instruction."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155088",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 155088,
      "EditedText": "That is how it is done, is it? Laughter."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 155096,
      "EditedText": "That will be appreciated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 155097,
      "EditedText": "That will provide eight weeks for responses. We know that other submissions are coming in, so my advice to the country, in response to your letter, is that we want to hear from everyone; please keep the submissions coming in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 155106,
      "EditedText": "I acknowledge the importance of that issue. It is important to say that Edinburgh is one of our greatest attractions. It is a vibrant, expanding city that is in the forefront of many areas and it is a significant tourist attraction.I take the point about e-commerce and will give Margo MacDonald further information. It is not for me to sit in the centre of this committee and make judgments about what is happening in Edinburgh. We want to encourage people to take on board the issues that Margo MacDonald has raised and I give her a categorical assurance that that will be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 155108,
      "EditedText": "I will now open up the discussion to general questions as I think we have exhausted members' points on tourism."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 155110,
      "EditedText": "I acknowledge the model and think that it has been successful. The key point to stress is that virtually every company, every issue and every area has a different set of circumstances that require a different response. That is why I am keen to ensure that we are doing our very best through dialogue and partnership, the manufacturing strategy, the review of rapid response and the new labour market unit. The British Aerospace project shows that there have been successes. We want to build on them. I always feel that, as a minister, it is easy to be content with what is happening, but the key thing for an aspirational Scotland is that ministers should not be content. They should always be looking for ways to improve what they are doing and to help jobs and companies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 155112,
      "EditedText": "Not us."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 155114,
      "EditedText": "The Executive takes renewable energy seriously and I am keen to develop a fairly strong working partnership with Sarah Boyack to deal with the environmental aspects. I am not sure whether the targets will ever be right; I know that there is much concern about whether they are at the right level. All I would say to George Lyon on that point is that we are always available for discussion. This is an important issue for  the UK Government in terms of reserved responsibilities. We want to encourage the various moves George suggested, so the contact exists. This is a big, detailed debate, but we take both the industry and environmental sustainability seriously, especially as we approach the end of the century. We need a much wider debate in Scotland; at present, it is peculiar to a small number of people and organisations. I see the Executive's role as extending that debate, which will give us a more popularised version of renewables issues and make it easier for the Executive to have the kind of debate that it wants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 155118,
      "EditedText": "The fact that we now have a record number of graduates—more than 52,000—and that graduate unemployment is now the lowest it has been for some time, means that there is a favourable view of the quality of Scottish education per se, of higher and further education, and a similar view about skills. As an ambassador—along with each of you—I am keen to make the best of that, as it is fundamentally linked to the knowledge economy issue. In future, people will be able to get finance anywhere in the world, and labour costs that will be much cheaper than ours, but what they will not find is the educational quality on which Scotland should build its future. Companies we meet who are investing here have a very positive image. I hope to convey that message to anyone with whom I speak.I complete my day out by giving George Lyon some provisional figures for tourism for the first four months in Scotland. Visits are the same as 1998, overnight stays are 20 per cent up on last year and spend is 30 per cent up on last year. That is the encouraging note on which to end my contribution."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 155119,
      "EditedText": "I thank the minister and his colleagues for coming to the committee this morning and covering a broad range of subjects. This committee has a broad remit and we mirror the remit that is covered by ministers. We look forward to engaging in dialogue with Mr McLeish's department on a range of issues. In two weeks' time, the members of this committee will formalise priorities for our work programme. I am sure that the comments that were made today by the minister and his colleagues will help us to do that.The committee thanks Mr McLeish, Mr Stephen and Mr Morrison for attending the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155121",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 155121,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. As it is 12.30, I close the meeting."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155014",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 155014,
      "EditedText": "Let me approach this problem in two ways. First, I am greatly encouraged by the fact that we have a new Parliament in Scotland, which can make representations in a much more vigorous, focused and articulate way than was possible when Scotland was represented by the UK Government. The role of this committee and of the Parliament will be important, because they can, to greater extent than was possible in the past, articulate Scottish concerns about some of the financial issues that you have raised.Secondly, we need to ensure that we use Scotland's economic indicators—our concerns about employment and our employment potential—to make it crystal clear that different circumstances may prevail in different parts of the United Kingdom. It is up to the committee and the Parliament to make those representations. We will be making those points in our own dialogues.There is also someone in Scotland who deals with Bank of England issues, and we will be in contact with them; I hope that the committee will be too. We need to encourage that way of thinking—because we have a new Parliament, we can do that much more positively than we could previously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 155015,
      "EditedText": "Do you have concerns about the current level of sterling?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 155018,
      "EditedText": "Those are very big and very long questions, but I am sure that the minister will give us concise answers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 155021,
      "EditedText": "Yes, within the devolved settlement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 155023,
      "EditedText": "I remember another life when Margo MacDonald used to ask me questions on that subject."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 155024,
      "EditedText": "Nothing has changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 155026,
      "EditedText": "The questions have changed. They are more complicated.I am not sure that I should even step gently into certain matters related to Edinburgh, and Margo MacDonald will appreciate that, but the important question has been raised about the new activities worldwide, and they are happening in Edinburgh as well as in every other part of Scotland. Under the devolved settlement, we have substantial powers with regard to lifelong learning. The settlement also prescribes the specific powers and legislative competence that we have for enterprise. That is why I made the point that we have substantial powers in those areas, and we should use them to maximum effect.I referred to e-commerce because it is one area that needs further, dramatic exploitation in Scotland. It will change thinking. For example, we are attracting a large number of call centres. That is an excellent development, because some are at the low end of the technology scale while others are at the higher end. I think that the point that Margo MacDonald was making was that often developments in the internet and e-commerce could be in conflict with what is happening on the ground. That will take some time to develop. However, the point that I want to make is that if our business community does not start to link into the technology—it is underdeveloped at present, but in a few years' time it will be well developed—we might fall back. I endorse the main points that Margo MacDonald made, although I am reluctant to get involved in the specifics of the situation in Edinburgh. I will say only that e-commerce is vital and that the changes in industry and tourism to which Margo referred need to be recognised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 155031,
      "EditedText": "Encouragingly, that is what is happening throughout Scotland. There is a general trend for business and education to get closer together. On the lifelong learning front, we are encouraging that post-16, and I gather from speaking to companies around Scotland that they are forming links with schools. They are contributing technology and computers to schools, and are getting feedback in return, which spills over into entrepreneurial ideas and getting young people involved.I will be meeting businessmen, such as Richard Emanuel, who suggest that we develop a programme—with the Minister for Children and Education, and the Secretary of State for Education and Employment—to make more young people aware of what setting up a small business is like and the challenges that it might present.The point of setting up a business is to provide a product, but it also has a human side in that it appeals to the person who wants exciting self- development. The committee talked about confidence and risk taking, but we have to reinforce the entrepreneurial message that the knowledge economy is about ideas, innovation and making sure that our education system does not simply put people in slots but can interest people in different businesses, jobs and ideas, and exhibits the flair that Annabel Goldie was talking about. We have embraced that concept and have done much detailed work, but it is an area that we still need to push forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C155033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 155033,
      "EditedText": "I note that your department is content with the structures of enterprise networks. Are you equally content with the accountability of the networks? There is a perception that the ways in which the local enterprise companies dispense funding are not all that accountable.I welcome the emphasis that you place on the commercialisation of science and the development of a science strategy. As a scientist in a previous life I have noticed that that has long been absent from British research. Perhaps we are beginning to catch up with where we should have been. What should be the role of the research institutions in higher education establishments in supporting industry? We have talked about start-up assistance to new companies, but our scientists have a role in supporting our existing manufacturing industries.I would not like everything to be drawn into the centres of excellence around the central belt. As you know, there are types of manufacturing industry that would benefit from up-to-date research being done in our research institutes. Does the knowledge base in Scotland have any implications for the desirability of Scotland as a manufacturing base for industry? If so, what effect would that have on the funding mechanism for science research?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155038",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 155038,
      "EditedText": "As the minister knows, enterprise and education are inextricably linked. The rest of the committee and I welcome the primary importance that you have attached to the manufacturing sector and its significance in the macro-economic industrial strategy that the department wants to pursue.My question relates to the development of the skills base and the investment in human capital to which you referred. The Executive and the Parliament are ploughing serious money into further education: £44 million extra or thereabouts. As you know, the further education sector is a key driver in the development of the skills base, but since departmental incorporation it has been dogged by a string of problems. How will we ensure best value for money in developing the skills base that we all want? How will we ensure that there is a flexible approach to that skills base at individual college level and at national level? Given that the further education sector will be a key driver of higher still and advanced qualifications, how will we get best value and ensure that the additional resources that we are putting into further education will deliver the results that we seek to achieve?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 155055,
      "EditedText": "I will call you minister in this context. On a specific—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 155039,
      "EditedText": "Before I respond to that, I have to mention that Alasdair Morrison has to leave. We apologise for any inconvenience that that might cause.I want to begin by considering the context of the question. We are embarking on spending nearly £200 million extra on further education in the comprehensive spending round. That is much needed for technology and new buildings, but is also needed to consolidate the finances of colleges. Since incorporation, there has been much financial instability. There could be a variety of reasons for that, but we have earmarked—as it seemed we should—nearly £60 million to deal with the problem. There is another issue: consistent management throughout the sector. That is why we asked the Scottish Further Education Funding Council, set up on 1 July, to undertake a serious review of management at further education colleges. The idea is to examine best practice and to ensure that it becomes the norm; to root out bad practices and replace them with better ones. The clear message is that we need a context of financial stability and competent management to progress. On skills strategy, the paper on lifelong learning, \"Opportunity Scotland\", was put out for consultation. That consultation is nearly finished, and we will produce a strategy from it. I suggest that a review of the consultation responses will be important. \"Opportunity Scotland\" and the issue of skills development are paramount to me, and will be of interest to the committee. In response to Allan Wilson's question, we are doing an enormous amount towards skills at every level: there is the skillseekers programme for 16 and 17-year-olds, new deal 18-24, new deal 50-plus and training for work. We then come to \"Opportunity Scotland\", which examines the input from training organisations. We are not doing as well as we might in some areas. The key issue is employment-based training, the volume of which must be increased. That is one of the promises which I have set myself. I wish to ensure that everything—the range of initiatives—which the Executive is doing is brought together coherently to add value in the workplace in the form of more skills and to provide access through lifelong learning. For example, Scottish Power has 56 learning centres. My plea would be for every workplace to become a learning centre.Modern apprenticeships, the right to take time off to study for training, the development of the careers service, adult guidance strategy, the Beattie committee, the university for industry and individual learning accounts represent a plethora of good schemes and programmes that are under way. My main concern, and that of this committee, is to bring more coherence; \"Opportunity Scotland\" and our response to it, will be the key to that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 155042,
      "EditedText": "On Marilyn's first point on wider community involvement, skill development and education, a variety of things are happening. For example, I was in Fife—I often forget what day of the week it is, but it was a few days previous to this—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155043",
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 155043,
      "EditedText": "You also represent the place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 155044,
      "EditedText": "It was not in my, nor in Marilyn Livingstone's, constituency. I was at the Cosmos learning centre in St Andrews, which is a £250,000 outreach project. Glenrothes College is involved, as is European funding.  We are saying to people that such centres are now here. The centre is attracting a lot of interest from both younger and older people. That is one of the ways of outreaching in Scotland that is heartening, but it has to be part of a coherent strategy.Secondly, there is the issue of college development and—we hope, in the future—university development north and south of the central belt. That is sending a powerful message that such development is not the preserve of the central belt. The third issue in which I am interested concerns, for example, the way in which the Scottish Power open learning centres were opened up to employees and to the families of employees. If other companies can follow that lead, that will be one way of opening up communities.I visited Motorola, which is developing an American concept by creating the Motorola university. That is not as sinister as some might think; the company is bringing in skilled students from the colleges and universities to acquire in-company training and qualifications. That partnership is boosting the colleges and universities, and is linking up industry and higher and further education in a positive way.Our response to the Beattie report will be published next week. I do not want to go into the details at this stage, but I would be happy to share with Marilyn Livingstone some of its content. We will publish the Beattie report and we will give an initial response to it, but we will not go into the details of the areas in which we want to invest. For people from disadvantaged backgrounds, who have difficulty getting into education, and for those with learning difficulties or physical disabilities, the crucial point is from 16 onwards. It is important that we focus on that point, as that is where support services are urgently required. If we fail at that point, the other options will not open up for those people. I would be happy to discuss with Marilyn Livingstone and the committee the implications of the Beattie committee report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 155046,
      "EditedText": "I hate to sell Fife. If Kingdom FM is listening, this is my big plug for the day.I think that that model is worth considering. I am sure that, over the next few years, the committee will want to study good practice, based on the principle that education is vital to Fife. All the agencies should work together. There has been a better link-up in Fife between enterprise, involving the enterprise company, the colleges and a progressive education authority. The ingredients are there and the mix is right. That model may not work everywhere, but it is worth considering. The Cosmos initiative—which Marilyn Livingstone described—is not just in situ provision, but is considering the community as a resource and is developing it not only for the people but with them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C155047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 155047,
      "EditedText": "We have lectured a certain part of the populace on the fact that lifelong work is no longer available, and that flexible work is the new way that everyone must accept. I am concerned that, although a lot of positive things are emerging from the new deal, there are barriers to people who accept the idea that flexible work is all that is available and feel that they must take it. I am also worried that the new deal is biased against people, particularly the over-25s, who are forced by economic circumstances to sign short-term contracts and to give up long-term educational opportunities. I hope that a new deal task force will be able to examine that issue and, where possible, link short periods of unemployment with educational opportunities in the new deal. Unless we can do that, people aged over 25 will be disbarred from new deal educational opportunities. We should ensure that people can return to the world of work and also seize educational opportunities to create their own job security.The minister's second point stole some of my thunder, but I was pleased to hear him commend the workplace learning centres. They are very important and I have had positive experiences working with them in the whisky industry and in other areas. Not only are they important because of the opportunities that they offer to individuals, but they are also important for the changing culture in many industries. They encourage co-operation between traditional opponents. We welcome such initiatives and it is a good thing that they encourage the involvement of families.There are two issues that I want to raise. First, the minister mentioned the right to time off for training for 16 and 17-year-olds. Why are we stopping at 16 and 17-year-olds? Why cannot we look beyond that? It would be worth discussing that issue. Secondly, we now have a flexible work force. Given the shift systems and the part-time and short-term contracts that people are working under, is the minister convinced that colleges and centres of learning are responding to the new work force and providing a service for it? Colleges are closed at weekends and observe term times. What would he be prepared to do to free up the resources of such institutions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 155049,
      "EditedText": "The new deal is a United Kingdom programme. Members of this committee would like it to be administered in Scotland by the Scottish Executive. What degree of discretion does the Scottish Executive have in policy issues relating to the new deal? It remains a hybrid area of policy, about which the boundaries are not terribly clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 155051,
      "EditedText": "Is that an area that is likely to be covered by a concordat?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 155052,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that it will be. Convener, you were fortunate enough to enjoy all the committee stages of the bill which became the Scotland Act 1998, when concordats were first mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 155056,
      "EditedText": "Is this going to be a difficult question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 155057,
      "EditedText": "No, this is dead easy-peasy. It is a question about how the concordat will affect your real powers to bring about change within the devolved settlement. Sustained employment is defined under the new deal as three months' work. That benchmark might not be the benchmark that this committee would think of as being reasonable. We might not think that you are getting your £1.10 for every £1 spent. So how much elbow-room have you got?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 155058,
      "EditedText": "I think I will revert to addressing you as Margo MacDonald for this one. Let me go back and clarify exactly what I meant by the three levels. It would be foolish of us—as a Parliament, as a committee or as an Executive—to pretend that we have competence in areas that are reserved to Westminster. Equally important, it would be unwise of us to raise the expectations of the people of Scotland in areas on which we cannot deliver.As I said to Margo earlier, we must recognise three areas: Europe, which is important in relation to skills, for example; Westminster, which is important in terms of the new deal; and ourselves. We have total competence, and total financial powers, in certain matters. My main point is that we must use our competence and powers in those devolved matters to maximise the changes that we can bring about in Scotland. However, on the new deal, we have to acknowledge—well, I have to acknowledge; the committee may take another view—that we must work with Westminster. We must ensure that our concerns are debated and discussed, and ensure that they know that our aspirations may be different from theirs. We have to go through that mechanism, but debates and discussions will ensue. If that happens after the presentation of a well-thought-out paper from me, I think that that would help the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2154E194P299C155060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stephen, Nicol",
      "ID": 2154,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Nicol Stephen): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 155060,
      "EditedText": "I think that it was Alan Sinclair from the Scottish new deal task force who came along and made a presentation to the committee. The task force is very active and is already making representations on the development of the new deal, on the need for greater flexibility, and especially on the need to be able to target resources at the bottom 20 per cent of those involved in the scheme, who need additional support. The members of that task force are represented on the United Kingdom task force, where they have a very influential role, working closely with the other members. If we can work closely with them to make effective representations to the UK Government—through this committee and through the department—it should lead to positive results.This is an area where we can make a difference. There is considerable expertise in Scotland and the quality of the individuals who sit round the table in the Scottish task force is very impressive. There are already significant differences in the way that the new deal is operating with the local enterprise companies and the voluntary sector in Scotland.Indeed, within Scotland there are quite significant differences within each regional area and we very much want to learn from best practice. It is a new initiative and people have been interpreting things slightly differently in different areas. Scotland can play an influential role in the development of the new deal if we can encourage the best practice to spread throughout Scotland and then try to influence the UK on how greater effectiveness could be achieved by changes in the regulations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 155062,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about people who have said that they want to publish the letter. I will deal with that. In the spirit of being open and transparent, I would like to respond positively. If we are going to have an open and constructive relationship on such issues, then I would want to see that happen. All the correspondence that the task force has been involved in is with me. I will look into it and I hope we can furnish you with as much information as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 155079,
      "EditedText": "I must apologise: I did not realise that Alasdair Morrison was leaving. He has responsibility for tourism, which is the subject that we are going on to discuss. He has left you in the lurch, minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 155085,
      "EditedText": "I want evidence because of the situation in local authorities. There is a local authority view that I should not make the change that I am suggesting, but I am also conscious that what the ATBs say about medium-term funding and certainty of funding makes sense. That is why I want the consultation to address this issue. I will make a judgment once we have heard those views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 155086,
      "EditedText": "I would like to be clear on this. If we are to give ATBs stability and the ability to plan, we are talking about ring-fencing the funding that comes from the council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155090",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 155090,
      "EditedText": "I was really asking about the process of delivering the strategy rather than the strategy itself. That takes us back to the link between the Scottish Tourist Board and the BTA."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 155091,
      "EditedText": "We are consulting so that we can revise the strategy. We work in the context of the BTA, but I will have aspirations for Scotland. If there is consensus that we need to influence the BTA, that is what we will do. If the consensus is that we need to do more in Scotland vis-à-vis the outlets that we have, we will do that. The point is that I want evidence at this stage. Many of the arguments about marketing, skills and funding have been based on substantial anecdotal evidence, but I want hard evidence. I have an open mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 155093,
      "EditedText": "I will deal the last point first. The STB is one of the key organisations in tourism and it will have an important role to play in strategy development. The responses to consultation are coming in; I can reveal that we have had more than 300 responses. That is more than we had expected in a short time. We want to work out the strategy and partnership. If the committee wants that spirit of partnership, it should not suggest that the Government devise a strategy without speaking to the STB, to the area tourist boards, or to the tourism forum. We will proceed in partnership and I am immensely encouraged by the response we have had, and by the emerging consensus on that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 155098,
      "EditedText": "The minister will now address some of the other points that have been raised"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2028E87P287C155101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeish, Henry",
      "ID": 2028,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Henry McLeish: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 155101,
      "EditedText": "The first part of my submission showed that spending was up for the first part of this year—George Lyon said the we were comparing it with a poor year—but we must examine the figures and the submissions. When I go to the Highlands and Islands, the Borders, Ayrshire and Dumfries and Galloway, these issues are raised with me, but other concerns—about marketing and skills—have been expressed. We have to consider the whole issue. My main focus is to trade on our strengths. I have no doubt that tourism in Scotland could be doing better; it is our task to work together to ensure that that it does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C155102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 155102,
      "EditedText": "I thank the minister for extending the period for submission of responses. At the meeting with the Glasgow chamber of commerce on Friday, great concern was expressed about the brevity of the time period. Will the minister ensure that prominence is given to the decision to extend the period—I am certain that there are bodies that have much to say and may feel that they have been debarred from making a submission?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C155107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 155107,
      "EditedText": "It is a strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C155113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 155113,
      "EditedText": "Maybe not in this committee.There is a tremendous opportunity to develop this type of technology. That would bring benefits not only in terms of the technology, but in the types of manufacturing jobs that might be created."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 155115,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Mr McLeish. We have managed to get through this discussion with only a brief mention of tuition fees, which has been referred by the Parliament to the committee of inquiry. How will that issue be handled? When the report of the committee of inquiry is brought back, will it be brought first to the Executive or directly to the Parliament? Once the report has been discussed by the Executive, will its conclusions be binding on all its members?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 155117,
      "EditedText": "Mr McLeish, you raised the issue of the quality of graduates; awareness among potential inward investors about the quality of the graduate population in Scotland was an issue that came out of our discussions with various organisations last week. I know that you are embarking on further trips to promote the Scottish graduate population overseas. What is your impression of that awareness among the overseas companies that you talk to? What can be done to improve that perception?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 155122,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:30."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C155076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 01 Sep 1999",
      "ID": 819
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-09-01T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Executive Policy",
      "HeadingID": 3523,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3523,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 155076,
      "EditedText": "I was disappointed, minister, to see that the problems that face small businesses are not mentioned in the Executive's priorities, although I am pleased that you convey a sense of goodwill  towards small business and that you are \"working closely\" with the committee. Will that close working involve taking up the following specific suggestions to help small businesses, many of which are facing crisis?With regard to the rates revaluation, will you introduce a de-rating for small business, as the Federation of Small Businesses advocates, to slash the unfair and disproportionately large burden of business rates that it bears?Will you reintroduce the small business loan guarantee scheme so that there is some prospect of achieving the goal of creating 100,000 new businesses that you mentioned?Will you conduct a root and branch review of the planning procedures, which are a burden and cause delay to many small businesses?Will you accept that the retail sector, whose opinion is included in \"Pathfinders to the Parliament\"\"does not relish the idea of a road toll tax imposition that has the net effect of forcing lorries off motorways and onto rural roads and through towns in order to save transport costs\"? Can you name one business organisation that supports your road toll proposals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:16.4150876+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/25)",
      "HeadingID": 19254,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19254,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638262,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/25)",
      "HeadingID": 19254,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 19254,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638263,
      "EditedText": "I take it that the order is approved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19253,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19253,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638259,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 11:03"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 19256,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 19256,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 638266,
      "EditedText": "Is this order approved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Agency Arrangements) (Specification) Order 1999 (SI 1999/1512)",
      "HeadingID": 19257,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 19257,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 638269,
      "EditedText": "We agreed to note the order and some of the exciting functions that Scottish ministers will have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 19258,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 19258,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 638273,
      "EditedText": "In a helpful way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 19258,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 638276,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products From Belgium) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/14)",
      "HeadingID": 19259,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 19259,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 638278,
      "EditedText": "That would be appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products From Belgium) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/14)",
      "HeadingID": 19259,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 19259,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 638282,
      "EditedText": "That is policy, but we could draw the matter to the attention of the Rural Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 638292,
      "EditedText": "That seems to conclude the business agenda. Alasdair has kindly prepared a proposed agenda for future meetings. Ian Jenkins flagged up that the timing of the meeting is a problem for him. We have the parameters of Tuesday morning in which to work. As I said previously, I am happy to come and go with the wishes of the committee, as I live close to the Parliament.It is perhaps unfortunate that the two people who wanted the later start are the two who have sent their apologies. Perhaps Ian Welsh will want to canvass that point with Ian Jenkins and with Fergus. I do not know how others feel, but I am happy to come and go. We should perhaps strike a balance among ourselves in deciding whether we start slightly earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 638294,
      "EditedText": "How do other members feel about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 19266,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 638296,
      "EditedText": "Yes, apart from two on a Monday. I am willing to go along with a variable time on a Tuesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 19266,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 638298,
      "EditedText": "Can I suggest that you, Ian, have a word with the other Ian and with Fergus to try to strike a balance. I am flexible, and rather than our putting the matter to a vote and causing disgruntlement, you may be able to come to a working arrangement. The half-hour of informal briefing seemed a bit tight this week. What do you think, Bob? You are the expert."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Robert Brodie (Consultant to the Scottish Parliament's Legal Advisers): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 638299,
      "EditedText": "Various general points had to be discussed, but there could be occasions when there are more statutory instruments. Members will certainly need a full half-hour normally. Three quarters of an hour might be better—three quarters is safe and there is no rush, whereas in the half-hour that we had there was a learning curve both on my side and on the members' side."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C638300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 638300,
      "EditedText": "What is the rationale for meeting on the Monday afternoons?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 638303,
      "EditedText": "You can take it, Ian, that we will not regularly meet on Mondays. We are doing so only because two particular Tuesdays are not available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
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      "ID": 19266,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 638304,
      "EditedText": "I am with Ian on that: we should be in our constituencies on Mondays and Fridays, but I accept that meetings will occasionally have to take place then, as long as we get plenty of notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 638306,
      "EditedText": "To three quarters of an hour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 638309,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638312",
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      "ID": 3610
    },
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      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 638312,
      "EditedText": "That is great."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 638313,
      "EditedText": "Shall we discuss the timing of meetings—the number of days in which documents can be laid—or are we leaving that for another meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 638316,
      "EditedText": "I do not know whether the agenda could show for each item whether there is a note or no note. Would that be too complicated to tie up with the legal advisers, Alasdair?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 638318,
      "EditedText": "Everyone was scribbling things down and going back through the papers—that was not anyone's fault. If the agenda mentioned where to look, it would be easier for all members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26)",
      "HeadingID": 19255,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 19255,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 638264,
      "EditedText": "Item 2 reflects the west coast position and is basically the same as item 1. Is it approved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Orkney) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/27)",
      "HeadingID": 19256,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ID": 19256,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 638267,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Agency Arrangements) (Specification) Order 1999 (SI 1999/1512)",
      "HeadingID": 19257,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 19257,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 638268,
      "EditedText": "This is referred to in paragraph 9 of the legal briefing. Do we want to ask for clarification on this? Mr Brodie's note gave us the background, but the committee did not exist when that was being considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 19258,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 19258,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 638272,
      "EditedText": "These regulations must be read in conjunction with the explanatory memorandum that was provided by the Executive—the first item on the supplementary agenda. As the clerk, Alasdair Rankin, points out, the matter has been flagged up on page 3 of the legal briefing. Mr Brodie noted a problem with the drafting of the preamble, as mentioned in point 11 of the briefing—I have to say that I did not. Does the committee think that we should draw that to the Executive's attention?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 19258,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 19258,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 638274,
      "EditedText": "The order breaches the 21-day rule, but I think that we understand why, in these circumstances, the rule has been breached. In future, we would expect to be able to comply with the rule."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/1)",
      "HeadingID": 19258,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ID": 19258,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 638275,
      "EditedText": "Is the order approved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products From Belgium) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/14)",
      "HeadingID": 19259,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 19259,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 638280,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could note that we are all learning our way at an early stage in the Parliament's life and ask that such omissions be avoided in future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs From Belgium (Control) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/15)",
      "HeadingID": 19260,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ID": 19260,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 638284,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/22)",
      "HeadingID": 19261,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ID": 19261,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 638285,
      "EditedText": "A typographical error has been flagged up here, but that is something that we should let go by. If we send too many letters, we will undermine the weight of what we write. We now move on to the supplementary agenda. We have dealt with item 1, which is the explanatory memorandum on the environmental impact assessment order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C638293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 638293,
      "EditedText": "Earlier suits me. I travel for two hours. I know that the two who are not here also have to travel, but meeting at this time would render a good deal of the day inoperable for me because of the travelling back and forth. I understand the problems of Ian and Fergus, but mine are similar. If I get here earlier I miss the traffic—that happens both ways. Perhaps we can agree that some of the meetings should be earlier and some at this time. Either way, it would help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 638295,
      "EditedText": "The meetings are always on Tuesday mornings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C638302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 638302,
      "EditedText": "I would prefer not to meet on a Monday or a Friday, which are constituency work time for me. However, if it is in extremis, fair enough."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 638305,
      "EditedText": "Shall we extend the pre-meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 638307,
      "EditedText": "We should reconsider our start time at the next meeting, when we should reconvene at 10.30 am with an 11.15 am public start."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 638308,
      "EditedText": "I do not expect other Tuesdays to give rise to similar problems; it is just that the London meeting and St Andrew's day fall on a Tuesday. We are boxed in by the parliamentary committee timetable.Is there any other business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 638310,
      "EditedText": "Are you happy, Bob, about the legal briefing note? Will it come out with the papers in future, or will it be available on the morning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C638314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 638314,
      "EditedText": "I would like to reserve an opportunity to come back to how the papers are prepared for us. I have found getting to grips with what they are about pretty heavy going. Part of the question is how the papers are presented to us. It is important that we establish what is user-friendly for members. I am not saying that the paper is not user-friendly, but we deserve the right to say that we would prefer to have information packaged in a way that facilitates our understanding of the issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 638315,
      "EditedText": "I found the explanatory notes helpful, although a couple of them claimed not to be the explanatory note for a particular order, which confused me—I will learn as I go along."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 638320,
      "EditedText": "When I first saw the Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999, I took one look at the document and thought, \"No, thank you.\" I sent it to the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, which kindly responded within 24 hours on the basis that everything was hunky-dory. I mention that as an aside and as an idea that members might want to examine—if you send regulations to the appropriate governing organisation, they will, in some instances, do your scanning for you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 638321,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:23."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19253,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19253,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 638260,
      "EditedText": "Good morning, and welcome to this second meeting of the Subordinate Legislation Committee. I remind members of the public that we are happy to have the democratic process viewed, but I make it clear that the purpose of this committee is to consider not policy, but dry and technical matters such as whether legislation is properly drafted and whether it is vires or ultra vires. Although we might like to discuss policy issues, we are precluded from doing so. For example, we are discussing amnesic shellfish poisoning, which people may have heard mentioned on \"Good Morning Scotland\". We are not in a position to consider the whys and wherefores; we must consider simply whether the legislation that has been or is about to be brought in is appropriate. The purpose of our meeting briefly in private first was to allow us to obtain legal advice. There are two agendas—the main agenda and a supplementary one dealing with revoked orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (East Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/25)",
      "HeadingID": 19254,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 19254,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 638261,
      "EditedText": "This is the first item on the main agenda; it is referred to in paragraph 7 on page 2 of the legal briefing. Do members wish to comment on this, following what we heard from Mr Brodie?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (West Coast) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/26)",
      "HeadingID": 19255,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 19255,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 638265,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Agency Arrangements) (Specification) Order 1999 (SI 1999/1512)",
      "HeadingID": 19257,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 19257,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 638270,
      "EditedText": "Is the order approved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland Act 1998 (Agency Arrangements) (Specification) Order 1999 (SI 1999/1512)",
      "HeadingID": 19257,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 19257,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 638271,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products From Belgium) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/14)",
      "HeadingID": 19259,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 19259,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 638277,
      "EditedText": "This item is referred to in point 12 on page 3 of the legal briefing. Mr Brodie flagged this up for us, pointing out that the order came into force before it was laid before the Parliament and that there was no explanation of why article 10(1) of the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Statutory Instruments) Order 1999 (SI 1999/1096) was breached. Do we wish to draw this to the Executive's attention?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products From Belgium) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/14)",
      "HeadingID": 19259,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 19259,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 638279,
      "EditedText": "It is a serious breach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food (Animals and Animal Products From Belgium) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/14)",
      "HeadingID": 19259,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 19259,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 638281,
      "EditedText": "Can I ask a crazy question? How can the egg white be included but not the egg yolk? That fascinated me. I do not know how it could be done without breaking the egg."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Animal Feedingstuffs From Belgium (Control) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 (SSI 1999/15)",
      "HeadingID": 19260,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ID": 19260,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 638283,
      "EditedText": "This item is the same as the previous one. Should we agree to flag up the same point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (No.2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/3)",
      "HeadingID": 19262,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 19262,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 638286,
      "EditedText": "This order and the following items were flagged up by Mr Brodie in the context of article 10(2) of the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Statutory Instruments) Order 1999 (SI 1999/1096). Again, I presume that this is something that the committee would wish to be addressed, taking into account that we are at an early stage and that we appreciate that the Executive is perhaps not used to these matters. We would ask in future that the terms of article 10(2) be adhered to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (No.2) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/3)",
      "HeadingID": 19262,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ID": 19262,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 638287,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/7)",
      "HeadingID": 19263,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ID": 19263,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 638288,
      "EditedText": "This order is in the same category as the preceding one. As these orders are being revoked, I do not know whether we want to comment on them. It appears that there were difficulties in drawing up this legislation in a hurry; it is not for us to be overcritical of the Executive's attempts to sort out matters to the benefit of everybody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (No. 4) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/23)",
      "HeadingID": 19265,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 19265,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 638289,
      "EditedText": "All these orders relate to shellfish poisoning matters and are covered in paragraphs 5, 6 and 7 of the legal briefing. We touched on them earlier. Can I take it that there is nothing on which we want to make any adverse comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (No. 4) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/23)",
      "HeadingID": 19265,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 19265,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 638290,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we want to make any adverse comment, but the explanatory letter attached to SSI 1999/23—order No. 4—mentions proposals to amend the Food and Environmental Protection Act 1985. We might wish to ask how that is to be done and over what time scale."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Food Protection (Emergency Prohibitions) (Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning) (No. 4) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/23)",
      "HeadingID": 19265,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ID": 19265,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 638291,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for that. Can we leave that for the clerk, Alasdair Rankin, to raise, either in one consolidated letter or in several? Presumably this will not be the end of the shellfish orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 638297,
      "EditedText": "I was also in favour of meeting at 11 am, as we did today. I would not be happy to meet before 10 am because I do not want to be committed to being in Edinburgh on a Monday night, as I would have to be to guarantee being here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 638301,
      "EditedText": "There is a trip to London to see the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments. That committee meets on 26 October—a Tuesday—so Alasdair and I will be unavailable then. There is a parliamentary holiday on 30 November—accordingly that Tuesday is not available. The difficulty is that other committees are timetabled for Wednesdays. I would be reluctant to meet on a Wednesday evening, which is when the committee of conveners meets, and meeting on Monday is probably preferable to meeting on Friday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brodie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 638311,
      "EditedText": "Ideally, the committee should have it the night before so that, if members arrive in Edinburgh on a Tuesday morning, they have a chance to read it—members were reading it today. We will have half an hour to go through it, or slightly longer. We should aim to get it to members by Monday evening, but I suspect that it would be impractical for the note to be sent out to members on the Friday, because things change. Members should expect to receive it sometime on the Monday or Tuesday morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Rankin (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 638317,
      "EditedText": "We can certainly examine that possibility, although there will in some cases be extreme time pressure. We can work with that, by and large."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3610
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Other Business",
      "HeadingID": 19266,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ID": 19266,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brodie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 638319,
      "EditedText": "This meeting has examined things that happened during the recess. Once the Parliament is up and running, the timing will be better. A number of the statutory instruments that we examined today were revoked. That is one of the reasons why we had the two agendas. It would clearly be in everyone's interest if the agenda and the notes went together. No one would suggest that today's arrangements have been ideal, but things will improve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5468443+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 578539,
      "EditedText": "I will try to shed a little light on the situation. There are two related issues. First, there is research, which might be a matter for the Health and Community Care Committee, and secondly, there is assistance for industries that have been affected by the ban, which has been implemented for health reasons. The second issue is of direct concern to this committee, but there is an overlap. We could conduct a short investigation and invite people to give evidence to the committee—we should hear what the Marine Laboratory has to say. That might be more relevant to the health remit, but we have to understand the whole issue to understand part of it. The Health and Community Care Committee could come to that committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 578552,
      "EditedText": "Finally, I am sure that everyone would agree that we should invite the other appropriate committees to send representatives to hear the evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 578555,
      "EditedText": "I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 578558,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is purely a health issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 578567,
      "EditedText": "Two or three local authorities are affected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 578629,
      "EditedText": "Will we hear the NFU's evidence first?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 578635,
      "EditedText": "I raise the matter in case we thought that the Scottish Crofters Union was worth inviting to represent smaller farmers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 578528,
      "EditedText": "I want to question one of the aspects of the shellfish ban. I understand that the movement of young scallops from one fishing ground into another for maturing has also been banned—but they are not contagious. I wonder whether that ban could be examined and perhaps lifted so that some parts of the industry can continue working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7238788+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17611,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 17611,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 578509,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 12:04"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Appointment of Reporters",
      "HeadingID": 17612,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 17612,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 578512,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda concerns an issue that has arisen in the past week—the Highlands and Islands consultative draft plan 2000-2006. It has been suggested that two members of this committee should be appointed as reporters, should attend the meeting of the European Committee at 2 o'clock today, and should, if invited, take part in that committee's process for dealing with the document.I had made it known that we intended to do that and Rhoda Grant and John Farquhar Munro were suggested as suitable reporters. Unfortunately, John Farquhar Munro is not present today and I was unable to contact him. It therefore falls to us to find a second person who is appropriately qualified and has the right background knowledge to represent this committee in discussions with the European Committee. We have to go through the process formally. I nominate Rhoda Grant and Lewis Macdonald to act as reporters on behalf of this committee at the meeting of the European Committee. Are there any further nominations?If there are no further nominations, do the members of the committee agree that Rhoda Grant and Lewis Macdonald should represent our interests at that meeting? It is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 578513,
      "EditedText": "The second item on the agenda concerns the statutory instruments that have been laid.The issue of shellfish poisoning is one on which few members of the committee have specialist knowledge. We hope that we can conduct an appraisal of the situation regarding the shellfish poisoning problem and decide how to proceed.The statutory instruments concern amnesic shellfish poisoning. We should try to widen our knowledge and decide whether we need to conduct further research. Would anyone like to initiate the discussion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 578518,
      "EditedText": "We are aware of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 578524,
      "EditedText": "In support of what my colleagues have said, although this may have been happening since 1790, it is perhaps more important to the rural economy now than it was then. As well as fishermen, the issue affects the processing of shellfish. Scottish Enterprise and the food sector are trying to achieve growth in that industry. In my constituency, there are two such establishments. The minister was at one of them recently. That is an important sector and the industry has concerns—I do not know whether they are well founded—about poor communications, the sampling regime and lack of funding. We could usefully examine those issues within our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 578525,
      "EditedText": "We are addressing a public health ban that affects the rural environment. It is right that we do so, but it is appropriate to run it in parallel with the other public health ban that affects the rural environment even more deeply—the ban on beef on the bone. I am a little alarmed to hear that it is inappropriate for us to discuss the issue because I do not believe that to be the case. I call on the committee to deal with those two public issues in a particular way. I will leave the shellfish matter for one moment. These are parallel issues, almost identical. I ask the committee to call before it the chief medical officer for Scotland so that we can question the advice that he is giving to the Minister for Health and Community Care on beef on the bone; we can deal with the shellfish issue at the same time. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 578527,
      "EditedText": "I should apologise to Mike for the fact that one or two of us laughed. It was not what Mike said; it was the way in which he included it. We will definitely discuss the issue that he raised in a moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 578537,
      "EditedText": "When there is a dispute over competence, it might be appropriate for joint meetings to take place, but I am not sure whether that would be appropriate in these circumstances. It is important that we recognise that public health is paramount at all times and that the work of this committee relates to the knock-on effects of a health issue. We need to stick closely to that brief. If members would like me to seek a specific ruling, I will do so before the next meeting of this committee. It might be difficult to define the boundaries of the responsibilities of different committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 578541,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we should be putting parameters on what we try to do. If somebody has to haul us into line at some stage, let that happen. I would rather expand as far as we feel it necessary and then let somebody haul us back rather than our placing unnecessary restrictions on our discussions. The issue would arise only if another committee were doing precisely the same thing as us at almost the same time. That would be a waste of manpower, given our large work load, but I am not aware that any other committee is pursuing this issue at the moment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 578545,
      "EditedText": "In terms of research, there are two different issues. The results of the research and the way in which they are interpreted by the chief medical officer might well be within the remit of the Health and Community Care Committee. However, the methodology and the time it takes for people to get the results impact on the industry, so the way in which the research is done is within the remit of this committee. Is the research appropriate? Is the research having a bad effect because industry is not getting the results on time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 578549,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I am coming to dates. We all know from our diaries that finding available dates can often be difficult. First, however, I would like to ask members which organisations or individuals they want to invite to speak to the committee or to be questioned by it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 578563,
      "EditedText": "The latter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 578565,
      "EditedText": "We also added local authorities to our list of sectors. Is it appropriate to ask which local authority we should approach? We all have a map in front of us that shows the areas that are affected by the problem."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 578566,
      "EditedText": "Going by the map, the greatest restrictions by far are around the Western Isles. Would it be appropriate to ask somebody from that authority to come? Richard will know better than I do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 578568,
      "EditedText": "Yes, there are a number. It might be an idea to speak to Highlands and Islands Enterprise, which has a co-ordinating role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 578572,
      "EditedText": "I am told by officials from the rural affairs department that, if the scientific evidence exists, and if this is just a question of calling people to a committee, the only problem is one of organisation. However, they say that if a meeting is called in four weeks, there should not be a problem. We have a meeting booked for 21 September—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 578573,
      "EditedText": "Which is three weeks from today. Would there be any administrative reason why we could not set things up for that date?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 578578,
      "EditedText": "Now that we have agreed on what I think is a sensible approach, I return to the point that I made earlier about a subject that is not going to disappear and that is extremely important to many of my constituents in West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine. I would like the committee to support my call to invite the chief medical officer for Scotland to appear before the committee at the next meeting. His presence need not be required for long, but I want to know the latest medical advice that he is giving to the Executive on beef on the bone. It is important that we discuss that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 578579,
      "EditedText": "I would back up that call. It is important to get such a perspective, because not enough information on the issue is in the public domain."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 578582,
      "EditedText": "Rushing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 578587,
      "EditedText": "Convener, can we stick with the point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 578588,
      "EditedText": "I know that a number of members of the committee have recently had pressure put on them by people from the sheep industry. I have taken the liberty of adding the issue to my agenda to be addressed before the end of the meeting.The specific point of inviting the chief medical officer to give the latest health evidence on beef on the bone falls outwith any operating structure that we currently have. However, my opinion is that there may be a place for allotting a relatively short period within a meeting of the Rural Affairs Committee to address this specific part of the problem facing the beef industry. I have recently spoken to sheep farmers and—although they believe that the Scottish Parliament and the Rural Affairs Committee have something to offer—they are greatly concerned that the system that has been set up will make it difficult for quick action to be taken. I am concerned that we work in this committee to ensure that issues can, if necessary, be raised and dealt with in a very short time scale. I therefore propose that—in the near future, at any one of our meetings—we invite the chief medical officer to come before the committee with the specific purpose of giving us the latest evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 578593,
      "EditedText": "I imagine that the presentation of such evidence to the committee would be a relatively short agenda item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 578594,
      "EditedText": "Indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 578595,
      "EditedText": "Given that this is not the primary committee for considering public health issues, I do not think that we would want to go into detailed questioning on that evidence. Are we simply proposing a presentation of the latest available evidence so that we can include it in subsequent considerations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 578596,
      "EditedText": "I do not want just a presentation from the chief medical officer; I want him to come before this committee. Our job is to examine his evidence and to ask him appropriate questions. I do not believe that it will be a long agenda item."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 578605,
      "EditedText": "I think that the coalition parties will agree to support that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C578610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 578610,
      "EditedText": "Convener, may I leave now? Do you need me for anything else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 578615,
      "EditedText": "Quite a few statements have been made recently and we need to clarify the Executive's position on the issue. As Alex says, the industry is facing a serious short-term problem and we need to investigate what the Government intends to do to alleviate that. We also need to examine the long term and how we can avoid recurrences of the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 578624,
      "EditedText": "As we have agreed to invite the NFU to send a representative to our meeting, should any other bodies or organisations also be represented?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 578625,
      "EditedText": "If we go down that route, we will find that there is no end to the bodies that want to be represented. We are trying to discover the Executive's plans; the NFU's submission and the minister's submission should allow us to form a balanced view of the present position. I agree with Elaine that we need to address certain long-term issues at some stage, but the immediate priority is to find a solution—if one exists—to the short-term problem; we could achieve that with the input from the minister and the NFU."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 578627,
      "EditedText": "I think that what Mr Fergusson has said is very appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 578628,
      "EditedText": "We will need to consider the issues that we want to address on 7 September, but I think that we do not need to set out a list of priorities. Given the two representatives that we will be inviting, the issues to be dealt with at the meeting will, I hope, raise themselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 578631,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to prolong the discussion, but I have a small proviso. The main physical problem will be the disposal of unwanted stock. Since the end of the calf-processing date scheme, the problem has also encroached into the dairy industry; it might be unfair to restrict the discussion to the sheep industry. I suspect that the discussion will overflow into that issue anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 578634,
      "EditedText": "The NFU may choose to be represented by its president, and I suspect that his knowledge of hill farming runs deeper than that of anyone else in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 578637,
      "EditedText": "I would support that. It would be useful to hear from the Scottish Crofters Union too. As Alex says, once we go beyond that—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 578644,
      "EditedText": "In effect, statutory instruments become law when they are laid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 578646,
      "EditedText": "From the outset, the function of this committee is to be aware of the instruments and their contents. We need to be prepared to deal with them and other committees' comments about them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 578649,
      "EditedText": "After that, does the statutory instrument go to the Parliament? I think that it is important to get this clear. Statutory instruments come to us; if we consider them and agree with them that is fine, but do they then go to Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 578651,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of different types of statutory instruments and different procedures for each one. When we receive the statutory instruments, we receive a note that tells us which procedure to follow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 578652,
      "EditedText": "Will we be briefed on the procedure?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 578660,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 13:07."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 578516,
      "EditedText": "I have been keeping a close eye on developments during recent months. This morning, the ban on shellfish was the leading item on BBC Scotland and there has been media coverage of the effect that it is having on some coastal communities. Nobody can fail to recognise the fact that hundreds of inshore fishermen have been affected by the ban. For health reasons, nobody in the industry opposes the ban. There are concerns, however, about the extent of the ban, the time scales involved, the research that has been undertaken and the Government's response to the question of assistance for those affected by the ban, given the fact that the income of many people in fragile coastal communities has been severely affected. I have been inundated with paperwork on this subject, and have not had the chance to read the responses that were given to me at the beginning of the meeting. It would be a good idea, however, to discuss the concerns that have been raised by the industry. As the Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs is with us, perhaps we could ask him for his view of the situation. He will be more aware than any of us of the opinions that have been expressed by the industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 578550,
      "EditedText": "We should invite at least one representative from each sector. We should have someone from the Marine Laboratory so that we can familiarise ourselves with its work. We should certainly have someone from the industry—perhaps a representative from the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. John MacAllister, who is in the room as we speak, is in fact the appropriate representative of the SFF. Moreover, on whichever date we choose, we should have someone along from the department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 578603,
      "EditedText": "That was exactly what I was going to say—we should have a no-later-than date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 578564,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we should ask them to send an appropriate representative, because that would allow them to get together to discuss the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7238788+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 578570,
      "EditedText": "We may get into difficulties by approaching just one local authority."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7238788+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 578520,
      "EditedText": "We have solicited comments from a number of industry organisations and other interested parties, and all members of the committee should have copies of those. Thanks to the work of the clerks, we also have a summary of those submissions. We can use the industry's concerns as a guide for what we need to achieve today.Would anybody like to comment on the list of the industry's concerns?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 578523,
      "EditedText": "It would be fair to say, as the minister has pointed out, that it would be inappropriate for us to comment on any of the health aspects of the statutory instruments. This problem affects the fishing industry, which is relevant to the Rural Affairs Committee. It is appropriate for us to consider the issue and to assess how we should progress, and whether we need to investigate the matter further and call evidence from expert witnesses. We are treating it as a fishing issue and as an issue about the rural environment, which again strays into other areas. This committee's primary concern must be the causes and effects on the fishing industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 578529,
      "EditedText": "I had understood that we were not competent to comment on the health aspect of the shellfish poisoning issue and that we have to discuss the rural concerns. Presumably it is the same for beef on the bone, in that it is for another committee—not the Rural Affairs Committee—to comment on the health aspects. As other members have indicated, there are a number of other issues of rural concern. In the light of the suggestion made by Richard and Lewis that we need more time to discuss those issues in detail, are there people here who are competent to answer some of our concerns on matters such as the testing regime at the Marine Laboratory?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 578530,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that any member of this committee is competent to comment on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 578531,
      "EditedText": "Are not expert witnesses here who could do that today?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 578532,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 578533,
      "EditedText": "I will respond to the point that Elaine made, that it is not for us to comment on the health issue. I do not think that we can leave it like that. It is entirely appropriate that the health issues are examined by the Health and Community Care Committee and that decisions to impose or lift the bans are made by that committee. However, it is also our job, as the Rural Affairs Committee, to consider the impact of the bans. We should be aware of the advice that civil servants are giving to ministers, which impacts upon the rural environment. It is essential that we should be aware of the medical evidence that is being given to ministers and to others because these bans have a major impact on our rural environment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 578535,
      "EditedText": "I did not say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 578536,
      "EditedText": "We need to be clear about the parameters of our consideration of this issue and of any other parallel issue. I would like the convener to give us a clear idea, today or at an early meeting, of how we relate to other committees when there are unclear boundaries of the responsibilities of different committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 578538,
      "EditedText": "If that is the case, the powers of this committee are extremely limited. If what the convener is saying is that we may not comment on issues that impact on rural education, as that is the remit of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, does that mean that we may not comment on social, education, transportation, environment or public health issues? This issue is no different from any of those. All those issues impact heavily on the rural community and we will go down the wrong track if we are barred from this approach."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 578542,
      "EditedText": "If that is the case, we set a good precedent this morning by selecting two members to go to another committee to keep a watch on its discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 578544,
      "EditedText": "The view that I expressed was meant to be an acknowledgement of the priority of public health over all other issues when it comes to matters that are primarily public health issues. On issues such as amnesic shellfish poisoning and beef on the bone, where public health is involved, we must accept that decisions are made on that basis and that we should concern ourselves with the area of responsibility that falls within our remit. I would not criticise the view expressed by Alasdair Morgan that we should ensure that we push outwards as widely as possible within the remit of this committee. We will probably have to accept that at times limits cannot be defined as clearly as we would like."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 578546,
      "EditedText": "We have all made a number of comments and we are coming to the point where we can decide on how to proceed. Is it fair to suggest that this committee believes it appropriate to add the problem of shellfish poisoning to the list of priorities that we identified before this meeting?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 578547,
      "EditedText": "Is it then appropriate to suggest that, at some point in the future, we should hold a meeting with the primary purpose of calling witnesses to go into the detail of this matter, allowing us to explore the concerns surrounding it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 578548,
      "EditedText": "Is not a little more urgency required than you suggested, convener? \"Some point in the future\" is perhaps a bit far off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 578551,
      "EditedText": "We should also consider someone from the processing side."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 578556,
      "EditedText": "We should certainly write to all the people who have made submissions to the committee and ask them whether they wish to amplify their points, which presumably were made at fairly short notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 578557,
      "EditedText": "Because the scientific evidence from the Marine Laboratory will be important, and a lot of our decisions will depend on it—and on its interpretation—would it be useful to have an independent assessment of that evidence?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 578560,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that that is what we would get from the Marine Laboratory and from representatives of the rural affairs department."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 578561,
      "EditedText": "I have had no indication of an alternative scientific view. There are questions about how the science is delivered, but I have heard no suggestion that the science is fundamentally flawed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 578562,
      "EditedText": "Your point is valid, Irene. Do you have anybody to suggest, because it may be difficult to find an alternative? If we rely on the rural affairs department and the Marine Laboratory to analyse the science, people there will, I hope, be able to give us varying interpretations of the results.We have had a suggestion for a representative from the industry—the gentleman who is here. Would any members like to nominate people from the other sectors that we have mentioned, or should we simply ask those sectors to send an appropriate representative?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 578569,
      "EditedText": "Would that be as an alternative to approaching any individual local authorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C578574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
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      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 578574,
      "EditedText": "Convener, may I make an observation? This may not be entirely accurate, but last week I saw the work that the scientists that specialise in this field are doing at the Marine Laboratory—they are phenomenally busy dealing with this job. I am not sure that the committee should take someone away from that task for half a day or more to attend a meeting. However, within the time scale mentioned, I hope that the outbreak will be over and that we can devote more time to the job. This is a material consideration—the committee is considering inviting people who are very busy dealing with the problem that we are talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 578575,
      "EditedText": "The next opportunity after 21 September is 5 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 578576,
      "EditedText": "We have scheduled meetings on 21 September and 5 October. Given the urgency of the situation, would it be appropriate to set things up for the first of those dates?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 578580,
      "EditedText": "I support that completely. The issue is vital for all rural Scotland and we should address it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 578581,
      "EditedText": "Convener, the importance of the problem is not at issue; we all understand its importance. What concerns me is the way in which we are determining what to do next. We have, as is appropriate, decided that the shellfish issue must be addressed urgently. However, rather than rushing into this—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 578584,
      "EditedText": "And this is one of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 578585,
      "EditedText": "Yes, this is one of the issues that we identified—there is no doubt about that—but I would prefer that we looked at what we should be doing in a more structured way, rather than simply jump at this one issue. We may conclude that the next thing that we ought to do is to consider beef. However, given that beef is not on the agenda, that would not be a very structured way of establishing our priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 578590,
      "EditedText": "Would you like to comment on that, Lewis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 578599,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that but, instead of setting the date today, I would prefer to return to your initial suggestion, convener. The two things that we do not know about the latest medical evidence are the date of its publication and what its substance will be. We might find that any date that we set just now will be inappropriate—it could be either too early or too late. I would be more inclined to allow the convener to use his discretion. If the medical evidence suggests that the ban should continue, we should consider that information at an available date. However, if the medical evidence suggests an end to the ban, a discussion of the matter with the chief medical officer may not have so high a priority. We certainly do not want to have such a meeting before the chief medical officer publishes his recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 578602,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to leave the matter in your hands, convener, but perhaps we could compromise by setting a date no later than 5 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 578609,
      "EditedText": "The next item concerns issues to be raised at the next meeting of the committee. I have quite a list of such issues, so let us move through it quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C578612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 578612,
      "EditedText": "In that case, I will get out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 578613,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for coming along, minister; your presence was much appreciated. I hope that you understand what we are trying to do as well as we understand what you are trying to do.At the next meeting, the members who were delegated to attend the European Committee this afternoon will be invited to give us a report on that committee's proceedings. We need to be kept up to date on that matter and, given that we have two members who understand the issues and who have genuine local connections and relevant experience, it is important that we hear that report.Another item is the document \"Agenda 2000: consultation paper on community structural assistance in the fisheries sector\", which will be circulated with the agenda. The next in the list of issues for the meeting is the situation in the sheep industry. Tavish Scott and Jamie Stone indicated in a letter this morning that they have come under pressure in their constituencies on this issue. Does any member wish to comment on their own experience?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 578614,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, any MSP representing a sheep farming community will have been made aware of the severity of the situation in the industry. I should declare an interest: as a sheep farmer, I am dreading the next six weeks to two months. There is a health problem to be addressed. There have already been newspaper pictures of calves being buried in pits and the same thing may happen with sheep—many thousands of sheep will not find a bidder. God knows how many times cast ewes brought off the hills will simply not find a buyer. Over the weekend, I noticed that the minister had been making noises about possible Scottish answers to this problem. That is commendable, but we urgently need to know what those answers will be. As we are talking about bringing people before the committee, I think that it would be highly appropriate to ask the minister to come to our next meeting, if he is available. I believe that he will be meeting the UK minister, Nick Brown, the day after our meeting on 7 September, so it would be appropriate for him to tell us what he has in mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17614,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 578617,
      "EditedText": "As Alex pointed out, this committee meets next on Tuesday 7 September. The day after, the Minister for Rural Affairs will attend a meeting with his English and Welsh counterparts to discuss the issue. Do members think that we should take the opportunity on 7 September to examine the issue, perhaps to help Ross Finnie to identify the questions that need to be discussed at his meeting on 8 September?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17614,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 578618,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that he would be delighted to have our assistance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 578619,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 578620,
      "EditedText": "Do members think that it would be appropriate to invite people to our meeting on 7 September to give evidence on the state of the sheep industry in Scotland?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 578630,
      "EditedText": "I am prepared to accept that proposal. Are we agreed that, on the day before the minister goes to the meeting with his English and Welsh counterparts, we should invite both an NFU representative to give his appraisal and Ross Finnie to discuss the sheep industry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17614,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 578632,
      "EditedText": "The on-going issues about calves and ewes are definitely related. It would be appropriate for us to comment on that at the time. At this point, the problems faced by the sheep industry are our priority and we should deal specifically with them on 7 September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 578636,
      "EditedText": "I would not object to that at all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 578643,
      "EditedText": "So our role is to express a view on the contents of the instruments. Have those statutory instruments already come into effect or are they drafts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 280.0,
      "ContributionID": 578645,
      "EditedText": "That will depend on which procedure is used. I have not yet received the instruments, but I hear that they are in the offing and are likely to be with us by next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 578647,
      "EditedText": "As the lead committee, are not we to judge whether to accept or to reject a proposed order?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 578648,
      "EditedText": "I believe so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 578655,
      "EditedText": "I was unpleasantly surprised to discover that there was more than one procedure for statutory instruments, as I was aware of only one. The documents will be circulated when they become available. Members will be briefed on what they are meant to do if we need to follow more than one procedure. Other priorities for the next meeting are to discuss the future business programme and priorities. We have decided that shellfish will be added. We will need to take a moment to address the priorities of the committee and to decide how to proceed and what priority we should give to the individual issues that we intend to pursue. There are also a number of administrative matters. Was it the clerk's intention to deal with them today or was he simply flagging them up to be dealt with at the next meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 578658,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Above all, this committee should, in its work, set its sights on visiting different parts of the country. I think that we all agreed to that at one of our first meetings, but we have not mentioned it since then. The other day, when we visited the Scottish Executive rural affairs department, there was a suggestion that we go to a Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency vessel in the harbour; someone remarked that they were not sure whether there was enough money for us to do that. If we cannot get down to the harbour in Edinburgh, we will have problems visiting Stranraer or Orkney. I wonder whether we could put that on the agenda for the next meeting; we should establish what the budget is and how we can visit different parts of the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 578659,
      "EditedText": "I intended to deal with that as part of our discussion of what came up at the conveners group meeting. We can make that a specific issue and discuss it then. Thank you very much for your attendance. We have managed to get through the agenda in reasonable time, so the two members who are going to attend the European Committee can get some lunch before they attend that meeting. Thank you for your support."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17611,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17611,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Alex Johnstone): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 578510,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. We have just passed the 12 o'clock deadline and we have a very good turnout for a meeting that was organised at short notice.I welcome Mr Hugh Allan of the Mallaig and North-West Fishermen's Association and Mr John MacAllister of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. Mr John Home Robertson, the Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs with responsibility for fisheries, is also with us.The formal arrangements for the committee make it inappropriate for anyone who is not a member of the Parliament to contribute to the meeting. However, if there is a need to get information from people who are here merely as observers, there are procedures that might make it possible for them to speak. Mr Home Robertson is a member of the Parliament and can, if invited by the chair, take part in the meeting, and that is what I propose to do. You are welcome to contribute at any point, Mr Home Robertson."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C578511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17611,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs (Mr John Home Robertson): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 578511,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 578515,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Richard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C578517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 578517,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to comment, if that is all right with you, convener. However, I am here as an observer and without officials."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2100E64P254C578519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Home Robertson, John",
      "ID": 2100,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Lothian"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Home Robertson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 578519,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to offer some comments. Although the rural affairs department has been taking an interest in the matter, I must stress that it is not primarily our responsibility. This is a public health issue and the introduction of the ban is therefore a matter for the Minister for Health and Community Care and her department. The worst possible scenario would involve somebody being affected by any form of shellfish poisoning. Not only would that person be ill, but it would tarnish the image of a valuable and important industry. We welcome the fact that representatives of the industry have acknowledged that it is in the interests of all concerned that the problem should be kept under control to prevent any incidences of poisoning.I visited the west coast two or three weeks ago and had an opportunity to meet some of the fishermen, including people who are here today, so I fully understand their problems. It is worth emphasising that the problem is not new. The toxins are associated with algal blooms, which occur from time to time. I understand that the first record of shellfish poisoning—I do not know whether it was amnesic shellfish poisoning, paralytic shellfish poisoning or some other kind of shellfish poisoning—associated with an algal bloom dates back to 1790. The problem has been around, on and off, for a long time. There has been speculation about algal blooms being caused by global warming, but we do not know for sure.The scientists at the Marine Laboratory, whom I visited last week, are working round the clock to keep a handle on the matter. Avoiding any risk to human health must be our No 1 priority, and that is how my colleagues in the health department are approaching the problem. I stress again that the health department is the lead department on such issues. The rural affairs department keeps a watching brief as we are answerable for matters relating to the fishing industry. I am not qualified to go into more detail on the matter, but I hope that my comments have been helpful to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 578522,
      "EditedText": "Like the minister, I visited the Marine Laboratory a couple of weeks ago, and the scientists talked me through the work that they are doing on the west coast shellfish situation. As the minister says, they are working flat out. It is an unusual ban in the sense that it is lifted as suddenly and unexpectedly as it is imposed compared with some of the deep sea fishing prohibitions that have been introduced from time to time. Although the problem has been around for 200 years, this is fairly early-stage science in understanding the causes. I agree with Richard that we need to examine the issue in more detail, but I want to be clear about our role. We are deciding whether to comment on the statutory instruments. When it deals with them, the Health and Community Care Committee will consider primarily the health aspects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 578534,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we have clarity on the matter. I do not agree with Mike that beef on the bone is more important than scallop fishing. From a west coast perspective, I am sure that people representing that area would disagree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 578540,
      "EditedText": "I accept that research comes under the health department, but the science comes under the Scottish Executive rural affairs department, which lends weight to Mike Rumbles's argument that we have competence on that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 578543,
      "EditedText": "The parallel between the beef-on-the-bone issue and the shellfish issue might not be as close as Mike suggested because, as Alex said, shellfish research is funded by the rural affairs department. It is within our remit to supervise that research, so that is slightly different from the beef-on-the-bone issue. I might be wrong on that and it would be useful to have some clarification. I support the view that we have a clear input on the application of the science."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 578553,
      "EditedText": "It is important that the committee is clear about whom it is inviting. Without any disrespect to Mr MacAllister, the suggested representative of the industry, do any members have a different view on whom we should invite to represent the industry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 578554,
      "EditedText": "If we are to look at the wider implications of this issue, we should consider inviting a representative from one of the local authorities in the affected area—Highland or Western Isles or Argyll and Bute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 578559,
      "EditedText": "No, the issue is the interpretation of the scientific evidence, on which everything hinges."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 578571,
      "EditedText": "All right. We have a list of organisations that we will ask to give evidence. The next thing that we need to do is to establish a date on which we would like to proceed. I would like to ask the clerk's advice on how long it would take to set up arrangements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 578577,
      "EditedText": "I believe that the investigation on which we are embarking remains relevant even if, as the minister says, the problem ceases to be a problem before our meeting. As we have learned, from reports and from members' contributions, the problem can come and go very quickly. It remains, however, on-going and we must address it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 578583,
      "EditedText": "I recognise the merit in what Mike is proposing but, when we met before the recess, we had a detailed look at a range of issues and we attempted to set our priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 578586,
      "EditedText": "This comment is similar to Lewis's. We had identified as a priority the problems in the beef industry—problems that are slightly wider than the beef-on-the-bone issue and include, for example, export problems as well. If we are now putting in bids for things to be discussed, I suggest that we consider the major problems in the sheep industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 578589,
      "EditedText": "I would like a specific date to be chosen. If an invitation for 21 September is too difficult to organise, I would be happy if the issue were addressed on 5 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 578591,
      "EditedText": "Like Dr Murray, I remain concerned at the developments in the sheep industry over the past few weeks. I am not clear about what has changed about the beef-on-the-bone ban that makes its priority different, but I would be glad to hear if I have missed something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 578592,
      "EditedText": "There have been major changes during the Parliament's recess. The partnership agreement between the Labour party and the Scottish Liberal Democrats contained an agreement to postpone any decision on lifting the beef-on-the-bone ban until the latest medical advice became available. I have been told that that advice will be available in the next week or two—I think that the committee is duty-bound to be made aware of it, which is why I want the issue to be addressed at the next meeting. We were told to wait until the export ban was lifted before we moved on the matter. Even though only tiny amounts of beef are being exported, I am delighted that progress on that has been made—we should now make progress on the beef-on-the-bone ban. As the issue is extremely important for farmers, especially those in north-east Scotland, I feel duty-bound to raise it at a specific meeting. I would prefer it if that were done on 21 September, but I understand if it cannot happen until the meeting on 5 October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 578598,
      "EditedText": "I want to back up your point, convener. Although we have set ourselves a programme of work, we need to be seen to respond quickly to urgent matters. I do not think it beyond the bounds of our resources to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 578600,
      "EditedText": "I want to know what the latest medical advice is; I have been told that the latest research on the issue is due now. I am quite willing to address the issue not on 21 September, but at the meeting at the beginning of October. I think that it would be most appropriate to have a specific slot with a specific time when we can ask the chief medical officer to give us a presentation on his advice to ministers and when we can question him on that advice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 578601,
      "EditedText": "Should we set a specific date for this item now? Two opinions have been expressed and I would be interested to hear everyone else's views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 578604,
      "EditedText": "Should we set a date that is no later than 5 October and, indeed, that is as early as possible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 578606,
      "EditedText": "We are agreed. Does any member wish to make any other comment about shellfish?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 578607,
      "EditedText": "Are we still talking about shellfish?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 578608,
      "EditedText": "Mike was champing at the bit to raise the beef-on-the-bone ban."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 578611,
      "EditedText": "We will always turn up something that you could be useful for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 578616,
      "EditedText": "Obviously I do not have Alex's personal knowledge of the problems faced by sheep farmers. However, I met members of the local National Farmers Union at the end of last week and, last Sunday, I met sheep farmers to talk about sheep farming and fox hunting, which is another important issue for them. It is clear that some of the immediate problems that need to be addressed—such as the impact of vets' fees and abattoir fees on sheep farmers—would be the responsibility of the ministry and perhaps of the UK Government. The fact is that there does not seem to be a level playing field with the rest of Europe on some of those issues. However, as Alasdair says, there is also a more general problem to address. Things could be done quickly to alleviate the short-term crisis but there is an issue about how to prevent the situation from happening again and about the long-term future of the industry. This committee could have an important role in discussing the longer-term implications of supporting the industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9231573+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17614,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 578621,
      "EditedText": "We need the minister here to express the Government's thinking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 578622,
      "EditedText": "We also need a representative from the National Farmers Union to represent the views of the sheep farmers. Obviously Alex can do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17614,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 578623,
      "EditedText": "Jim Walker will do that much better than I can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 578626,
      "EditedText": "I am inclined to agree with that, but I am also keen to hear suggestions from other members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 578638,
      "EditedText": "Then we would end up getting into all the group associations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 578639,
      "EditedText": "I am prepared to accept that the Scottish Crofters Union may have a slightly different perspective from that of the NFU and that it would be appropriate for its view to be expressed.I move on to other business likely to arise at the next meeting. There are likely to be three statutory instruments for our consideration. They are the Food (Animal and Animal Products From Belgium) (Emergency Control) (Scotland) Order 1999, the Food (Animal Feedingstuffs from Belgium) (Control) (Scotland) Regulations 1999 and the Plant Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Order 1999. I imagine that those orders will be circulated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 578640,
      "EditedText": "Yes, they will be circulated as soon as the Parliament has sent them formally to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 578641,
      "EditedText": "What is our function in regard to those statutory instruments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 578642,
      "EditedText": "The recommendation, through the Parliamentary Bureau, is that this committee will remain the lead committee on those regulations. This committee will also consider the opinions of many other committees and then pass back its view back to Parliament through the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 578650,
      "EditedText": "On a subsequent date the instruments need to be approved by the Parliament or they lapse and have to be laid again. I was concerned a moment ago when the clerk said that there was more than one procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 578653,
      "EditedText": "I will brief members on the procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Davies: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 578656,
      "EditedText": "At the meeting next week, I will give the committee some indications of the business likely to come before members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578657",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 578657,
      "EditedText": "A number of items were raised at the meeting of conveners. None of them were burning priorities, but I intended to go over the matters relating to meetings of the committee outside Edinburgh or outside the Parliament. The other priority for us to discuss is the proposed visit to Ingliston to meet the NFU. As we are inviting the leader of the NFU to visit us at our next meeting, we may be able to sort that out on or around that date. All the business that we had lined up for today is now completed. Would anyone like to raise anything else before I close the meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9387822+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578514",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 578514,
      "EditedText": "I should be happy to say a few words."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 578521,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate the minister's position and I hope that he does not feel that I am putting him on the spot. It will be unfair on the rest of the committee if this turns into a question-and-answer session between a couple of members and the minister. It might be worth taking the papers away and reading them to familiarise ourselves with the issues. A couple of issues are directly relevant to the rural affairs department. For example, one solution put forward by the fishing industry is the temporary issuing of licences, so that the inshore fishermen can fish for fish other than those affected by the ban. I am sure that the committee would want to examine the department's response to that. We could consider the issue in a three-hour meeting, with people from the department and the industry attending to give evidence. It would also be in our interest for someone from the Marine Laboratory, which is responsible for the research on the issue, to come to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 578526,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we discuss that in a few minutes' time once we have settled the shellfish issue, otherwise we could become rather muddled."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Amnesic Shellfish Poisoning",
      "HeadingID": 17613,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ID": 17613,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 578597,
      "EditedText": "I want to say a few words about our approach to investigations. Other committees in the Parliament have spent whole days over the recess taking evidence from outside organisations. Although the Parliament has been sitting for a few months, we will be taking our first evidence from such organisations on 21 September. I do not see why we cannot fit in both issues over the coming weeks. We should meet for a whole day if we have to because, in many respects, this committee has got a lot of catching up to do—we should not be afraid of having two or three short investigations over the next couple of weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 578633,
      "EditedText": "We are calling the NFU and the minister to give evidence at the meeting. On a point of clarification, would the NFU be representing hill farmers as well as bigger farmers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3220
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 17614,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ID": 17614,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 578654,
      "EditedText": "That was the point that I was about to make. Maybe we should have a background note."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:01:04.7733948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 520101,
      "EditedText": "Later we might consider sending another petition to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. It is important for the conveners to liaise because of the work load of some of the committees. While we do not want to build up the public's expectations unfairly, we do not want to depress them. We must be sensible about the way in which we refer petitions. We cannot slap a note of urgency on to every petition immediately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 520111,
      "EditedText": "I believe that that is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 520132,
      "EditedText": "To help him, not to impede him?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 520168,
      "EditedText": "It fulfils Pauline's criterion as 6,157 people from all over the UK have signed it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 520201,
      "EditedText": "We can pass it on to the Transport and the Environment Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 520225,
      "EditedText": "When will you be reporting back?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 14183,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 520085,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:04"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520086",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 14183,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14183,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John McAllion): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 520086,
      "EditedText": "We can now make a start. Margaret Smith has said that she will be late for this morning's meeting. We have not heard from Helen Eadie, but we hope that she will arrive quite soon.I officially welcome everyone to the second meeting of the Public Petitions Committee. I know that all the members and staff have had a very busy recess; I hope that some of you managed to take the fabled holidays that we were all supposed to be having. However, we can now get back to the business of the Public Petitions Committee. I know that most conveners would claim that their committees deal with the people's priorities, but we are unique in that regard. The priorities of this committee are not generated by the committee, but come from the people of Scotland.We have a fair selection of petitions before us, but before we turn to them I should say that it has been pointed out by legal officers that, according to the standing orders, petitions must be submitted on a sitting day of the Parliament. Technically, therefore, four of these petitions—the two petitions submitted by Mr Frank, the petition from Mr Guild and the petition from the Scottish Homing Union—are inadmissible, as they were submitted during the recess. Our legal advisers say that, in the long term, we might have to change the standing orders to stop that happening. In the absence to date of any public guidance on the submission of petitions, I think that we should agree to take today as the formal date for the submission of the petitions in question. That will allow us to consider them formally. Some of the people who submitted those petitions are here today, so it would be wrong not to deal with their petitions. Is that agreed? It is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520087",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 14183,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14183,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 520087,
      "EditedText": "At our previous meeting, I thought that it was made clear that if petitions were sent in, they would be submitted at the next formal meeting. I did not realise that there was a rule that they had to arrive on the day of a formal meeting. I raised that issue at our first meeting and was given assurances that such petitions could be brought forward. Unfortunately, we may now have to change the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520088",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 14183,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14183,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 520088,
      "EditedText": "It was the lawyers, I am afraid. There were no lawyers present at the previous meeting of the Public Petitions Committee. Lawyers can find technical reasons for anything. I do not think that the Parliament will have any problem changing the standing orders in future, but for technical reasons we had to agree on today as the submission date for these petitions so that we could deal with them at this meeting. We can now go ahead with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 520092,
      "EditedText": "The first petition comes from Ayrshire chamber of commerce. As members can see, it deals with the immediate action that is needed to upgrade the A77 between Fenwick and Newton Mearns to motorway standard. The purpose of the petition is laid out, along with the chamber's reasons for asking the Parliament to take that action.As members know, we are not here to debate the substance of the petition, but to decide how the Parliament should respond to or deal with it. Members will have had notice from the clerk and others of the Executive's strategic review of the roads programme, which will include consideration of the upgrading of the A77 as one project that might be given priority in the future. However, it is not for us to anticipate that review or to deal with the substance of the petition. We can refer it either to the Minister for Transport and the Environment, Sarah Boyack, or to the Transport and the Environment Committee. I favour the latter option. However, it is for this committee to decide how it wishes to dispose of the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520093",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 520093,
      "EditedText": "I should like to comment, convener. The petition is very much in line with the views of many people in Ayrshire and the south-west corner of Scotland. It is important that it is dealt with quickly, and the Transport and the Environment Committee is the appropriate body to do that. I am well aware of the Government's review, but the review was inherited from the Scottish Office and has dragged on for some time. The aim of the petition is, almost certainly, to inject urgency into the process. That urgency could well come from the Transport and the Environment Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 520097,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. Is it agreed that we should pass the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee to consider appropriate action, and that the clerk should write to the petitioners to inform them of this committee's decision? It is agreed.Time scale is another issue, as we have responsibilities in addition to simply referring the petitions to the appropriate committee. We should monitor how those committees handle petitions and agree with them a time scale for response. This issue might be raised usefully at the liaison meeting of the committee conveners—a further meeting is due to take place on 7 September—before we meet again. Perhaps the clerk could prepare a briefing paper from this committee, suggesting an agreed time scale for dealing with petitions, obtain information from the committees to which we refer petitions, and report back to the next meeting of this committee. Is that fair? It is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520099",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 520099,
      "EditedText": "I used the word \"urgency\" earlier, and I was going to suggest that the clerk used it in his letter to the Transport and the Environment Committee, to demonstrate how important this petition is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 520100,
      "EditedText": "It is open to the committee to agree that a note be sent stressing the urgency of an early response to the petition. However, that raises a problem—if we do that with this petition, the next one might be just the same. We must set criteria for determining which petitions should be dealt with urgently. We cannot say that all petitions are urgent, as that loses the point of attaching a note about urgency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 520105,
      "EditedText": "If we agree to add a note of urgency to the petition, we should not do it on the ground that there have been accidents on the A77. There are other roads in Scotland—particularly the road between Dundee and Arbroath—where horrific accidents took place during the summer. Therefore, we cannot say that this rather than that road should be the priority. The fact that the petition has been lying on the table for a long time and that it has yet to be dealt with by the Parliament is a far stronger argument for the petition to be assigned urgency, pro tem, by this committee. Is it agreed that we will return to that petition at the end of the meeting? It is agreed. The next petition, on rapeseed crushing, is from the Hospitalfield area residents committee. This complicated petition raises issues about the planning procedures of the former Dundee and Angus District Councils, and touches on the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, Tayside Health Board, Scottish Enterprise Tayside and the procurator fiscal. It calls for action from the First Minister and from the Parliament. There is no doubting the strength of feeling of the residents who presented the petition to the Parliament on a complex issue. Technically, we could refer it to the First Minister, the Local Government Committee, the Health and Community Care Committee or the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. However, given that the petition specifically calls for the achievement of a solution to an on-going environmental nuisance, we should refer it to the Transport and the Environment Committee for further consideration. Do members have other views?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 520109,
      "EditedText": "I wish to raise a point for clarification. Is this the first petition from a lobbying group? There are references to the \"Scottish parliamentary group\".  On page 5, for example, it is stated:\"and it is put before the Scottish Parliament by our Scottish parliamentary group\".May we have some clarification on that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 520113,
      "EditedText": "It is important that it is clear that the committee is not a vehicle for public relations companies to push forward their agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 520115,
      "EditedText": "Could we nevertheless have the situation clarified? I am not saying that this is a lobbying group, but I am a bit concerned that it could be, and that this could be the start of something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 520120,
      "EditedText": "I understand your concerns, but there has been some liaison with the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, which is concerned about our deciding whether matters related to its remit are appropriate and should be remitted or sent back. The members believe that it is for them to decide on the substance of the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 520123,
      "EditedText": "I share Christine's concerns about the petition and I will lay them on the table. First, the petition is hard to read. We need to find a role for ourselves in not bogging down other committees. People will realise that petitions might provide a short-cut to the committees. We have a responsibility to get the meat of the matter to the other committees. I am also concerned about the form of the petition and about the fact that Mr Frank mentions an unpublished book. I do not know what the point of mentioning that was, but it could be seen as self-publicity. If we allow the petition through without comment, we will open the floodgates. Anyone who submits a petition in this form will be able to say, \"What about my book on such-and-such a subject?\" I would like it to be minuted that we will consider those points to determine whether our concerns have any validity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 520124,
      "EditedText": "Pauline is absolutely right. Quite honestly, if we lodged this as a question, we would be ruled out of order, because there is a statement of opinion in the petition—relating to students\"who are subjected to unreasonable pressures for high achievement\"—that cannot be upheld. If we pass the petition to another committee, is everyone here committed to accepting that statement? It seems to me that the petition is not in a correct form and that it is right that we should question its admissibility. If it was submitted in a different form, the situation might be different, but in its current form it is, as far as I can see, an expression of opinion rather than a petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 520128,
      "EditedText": "I do not disagree with any of my colleagues' comments, which are valid and reasonable, but these are early days and people have not yet been able to get the clear guidance that they need. We must also reflect on the fact that we may refer petitions to other committees, but they are barometers of public opinion and it is for those committees to decide on the petitions' progress. There might not always be a positive—or even a negative—outcome; committee members might simply become aware of and note the strength of opinion. I have no doubt that members of the various committees will give balance to the process.In our procedures, we have to guard against allowing the petitions process to become a panacea for lawyers and professionals. We must make it easy for ordinary members of the public—for Joe Bloggs—to be able to access this committee and every other committee in the Parliament.That is the only caveat that I want to add to our deliberations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 520144,
      "EditedText": "I accept that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 520146,
      "EditedText": "What are we agreeing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 520149,
      "EditedText": "I am not happy with that. I take Sandra's point that we need to be careful, but I am looking ahead and I can see more petitions like this one. I do not understand what the petition is about and I suppose I have a vested interest—as Christine might have—because we are on the Justice and Home Affairs Committee.We have to point people in the right direction. I am not saying that people should not be heard—it is important that they are—but they should be heard in the right place. An individual might have more influence if they contact their MSP and have a chat about an issue. We have to be prepared to point them in the right direction. If we do not, committees will have to knock items off their agendas because we have referred to them layers of petitions like this one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 520155,
      "EditedText": "There is no question that the petition is admissible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 520163,
      "EditedText": "We are ignoring Mr Frank's wishes by passing the petition to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. His petition addresses the European and Equal Opportunities Committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 520169,
      "EditedText": "I agree with everything that has been said about the petition. Not only homing pigeons but small birds of all kinds are suffering. However, there is a question mark over which committee should consider the petition. Given the impact that the suggestions that are made in the petition would have on shooting estates, grouse moors and so on, the petition should be passed to the Rural Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 520173,
      "EditedText": "That surprises me. I would have thought that it the Rural Affairs Committee would have been responsible for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 520176,
      "EditedText": "It would also give us the responsibility of co-ordinating the response from both committees.Are we agreed that we will send the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee and the Rural Affairs Committee and that the clerk will inform the petitioner of that decision? We are.We said that we would return to whether we should stress the urgency of dealing with certain petitions. It was suggested that two should be dealt with urgently: one from the Ayrshire chamber of commerce and industry, the other from the Hospitalfield area residents committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 520180,
      "EditedText": "Pauline's point is well made and I back her."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing and Research",
      "HeadingID": 14185,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 14185,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 520186,
      "EditedText": "We agreed that the meeting will be held informally and in private. The clerk will inform members of the committee when he has arranged a time for that meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ID": 14186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 520187,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is guidance for the public on the submission of petitions. The clerk has prepared a draft document, which we will discuss at the next meeting of the committee, on 21 September.The clerk has suggested that if we take the petitions away and consider them ourselves individually, we can submit any comments or amendments to him by Wednesday 15 September. That will allow him to include for discussion during our meeting on 21 September the amendments committee members have suggested. Do members agree that course, rather than go into detail on it this morning? That is agreed.It occurred to the clerk and to me that many petitioners will be present at public meetings of the committee. It may be useful on certain occasions to allow petitioners to address the committee directly. If we put a box simply asking the petitioner if they wish to address the committee, everyone will tick it, and we may find that we do not get very far. We could find a form of words suggesting that, at the discretion of the committee, the petitioner may be invited to address it, and asking whether would they be prepared to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 520192,
      "EditedText": "The next item is a report by the convener on the meeting with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. It was an informal meeting that Helen and I managed to go to. The president of COSLA has tried to arrange to meet the convener of every committee in the Scottish Parliament. The purpose of the meetings is to stress that COSLA wants to co-operate closely with the committees in the Parliament and to use the committees to the best possible effect and to discover how local authorities can present petitions to the Scottish Parliament. I felt that it was a useful meeting; in fact, at the end of it the COSLA representatives said that they had probably learnt more from us than we had learnt from them. They thought that they should perhaps be examining the way in which local government deals with petitions—because it is not all that it is cracked up to be—and that they could learn from the practice of the Scottish Parliament. It is encouraging to discover that we might be able to influence not only how the Parliament operates but how other democratic institutions in Scotland operate. If we set a good precedent, others may follow our example. The work of the committee is, in that sense, very important and essential to the principles of openness and accountability that we talk about but that never seem to exist in the real world. We have a chance to make them real. I was encouraged by the meeting with COSLA; do you want to say anything, Helen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 520194,
      "EditedText": "Has anyone got any points that they wish to make?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 520197,
      "EditedText": "Since we were elected, all of us have received an avalanche of representations from a variety of organisations. In particular, since the committees have been set up, specific representations have been made to us. However, none of the mail I have received has been from someone saying that they would like to talk to me further about public petitions. Christine is right—there is an issue here. Over the summer, I met the Forestry Commission and others about the remit of the Transport and the Environment Committee, but no one asked me what public petitions can do; no one knows."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 520198,
      "EditedText": "I hope that I am not responsible for an avalanche of public petitions, because at meetings that I have attended at which people have made known their concerns, I have told them that they can put in a petition. I have given them the address and the names of the clerks and so on, so the committee may receive quite a few from Glasgow.Before we have the launch, it is important that we make people aware of the fact that the committee is here and that it is easy to get in touch with the clerk, who will help them fill in the form. I hope that it will work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 520200,
      "EditedText": "We have plenty of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 520202,
      "EditedText": "Under \"Any other business\", there are details of the schedule of committee meetings. The next meeting is on 21 September in committee room 3 or 4. Are members content with the meetings as set out in the schedule, or do they think that we should be meeting more often?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 520210,
      "EditedText": "It is not for this committee to debate holidays for MSPs, but it is open to petitioning by them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 520212,
      "EditedText": "This debate is spiralling away without information being put before the committee. The issue of committees travelling has been raised at the conveners liaison committee. We must accept that there are severe budgetary restraints. There are 16 committees in the Scottish Parliament. If the others and this committee—as Sandra White is suggesting—go out three of four times a year we are talking about 48 to 64 journeys by committees around Scotland. The budget will not support anything like that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 520216,
      "EditedText": "Only three members of this committee are required for a quorum, so three members could hold an official meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 520224,
      "EditedText": "I am not ruling out the committee's meeting elsewhere; I am simply pointing out that there are budgetary restraints on all the committees. The matter is being debated actively by the liaison committee. Ways around the budgetary restraints are being sought. If a committee meeting in Glasgow, Dundee or Aberdeen, instead of Edinburgh, is practicable and affordable, we will, of course, do that, but if we go out of Edinburgh there will be additional costs because we must take staff. Other kinds of expenses also come into this and we must take them on board. If members are worried about headlines in the Daily Record, one they should not want to see—but in which I am sure the Daily Record would indulge itself—would be about them jaunting all over Scotland at taxpayers' expense. The subject is being actively discussed and I will report progress at the next meeting of the conveners group. We will have a better idea then. There is no opposition in principle to committees meeting outside Edinburgh. We want to do that as much as we can, but we cannot say on the record that we will go out four times a year. We cannot set arbitrary standards like that. Let us wait and see what money is available and what we can do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 520228,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that Phil is taking into account the real implications. Glasgow, Stirling, Perth and Dundee are not such a big problem as regards moving around."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 520229,
      "EditedText": "I accept that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 520231,
      "EditedText": "That is one reason why I wanted to have a meeting in Glasgow, Helen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
      "HeadingID": 14188,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14188,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 520233,
      "EditedText": "Does any member want to raise any other competent business? It seems not. I thank members for their attendance and now close the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Any other business",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 520234,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:16."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 520154,
      "EditedText": "Pauline, are you talking about the committee's remit to agree the admissibility criteria?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 520159,
      "EditedText": "I am also a member of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, so I am aware of the danger of clogging up committees, but I think that we might be being a bit over-anxious. If the petition asks Parliament to take a view on the extent of the authority of the European Court of Human Rights, the Justice and Home Affairs Committee should consider it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ID": 14186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 520188,
      "EditedText": "Once we have had a chance to examine petitions, I suggest that—where appropriate—we consider that the next step is to ask the petitioner to address the committee. That could be the initial form of disposal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 520208,
      "EditedText": "I agree. Because of the cost implications for the administration of the Parliament there has to be substance behind taking the committee out of Edinburgh; it should not be a public relations exercise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 520211,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that there would be 129 signatures on that petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 520217,
      "EditedText": "I know that this might be hard, but would it be possible for us to hear a figure for that budget?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 520219,
      "EditedText": "Why not? I thought that this was an open Parliament. I want to know what the figure is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 520119,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned about our remitting petitions without considering their admissibility and whether their input and direction are in a form that can properly be remitted. We might want Mr Frank to restructure this petition. I have concerns about our simply bouncing his petition on to another committee without considering whether—to put it bluntly—it makes sense in the manner in which it has been submitted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 520121,
      "EditedText": "I am worried not about the substance, but about the form of the petition. I do not mean that the form should have been as magnificent as that of the petition submitted by the legal firm with a proposed bill attached, but that there is perhaps a role for the clerks in assisting parties in drafting their petitions to the committee, which can be overwhelming for people. That would help us to make a decision about remitting this petition to another committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 520103,
      "EditedText": "I agree, but if we think that something is important, we must minute why we think so and get into a habit of doing that. I would be happy to support a sense of urgency behind our referral of the A77 petition, because of the length of time that the petition has been awaiting consideration. It is a shame that that petition somehow missed the boat—although we were quick off the mark, as we discussed it at our first meeting. However, we could take that into consideration in order to make the case for asking the Transport and the Environment Committee to examine the petition quickly, as it has been pending for eight weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 520108,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has just suggested that perhaps we should ask the environment committee to take that step, as otherwise we would begin to deal with the substance of the petition, which is not our role. The Transport and the Environment Committee might take offence if we wrote directly to the minister on an issue that related to its remit. I take on board the point that, in our referral of the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee, we should suggest that that committee bring it to the minister's attention because of SEPA's role. Do members agree that we should pass the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee and ask the clerk to write to the petitioners informing them of our decision? It is agreed.The next petition comes from Maclay Murray & Spens, which describes itself as a \"leading firm of solicitors\"—I could not possibly comment on that—in commercial retailing. The petitioners call for an amendment to the Tenancy of Shops (Scotland) Act 1949, which deals with the right of small retailers to apply to the sheriff court for an extension of their lease if the sheriff considers that the hardship caused to the retailer of not granting an extension is greater than the hardship caused to the landlord in granting it. The solicitors see problems with the operation of the act, and believe that it is ineffective and not cost-effective, in that it inhibits the landlord from developing his property in line with modern retail requirements. I suppose that it could be seen as a David and Goliath struggle, but I do not think that it is for members of the committee to decide the substance of the issue. We should refer it to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, so that it can consider appropriate action, and the clerk should write to the petitioners on those terms. As it is entirely for the committee to decide, do members have any other views?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 520110,
      "EditedText": "I believe that the Scottish parliamentary group is a group within the firm of solicitors. It is not a lobbying group as such."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 520116,
      "EditedText": "I will certainly come to the next committee meeting with clarification regarding public lobbying groups."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 520117,
      "EditedText": "I see the group not so much as a lobbying group as a group representing business interests. The petition comes from a solicitors firm that deals with such matters on a daily basis and highlights what the firm sees as a problem. There are other sides to the story, but the firm has presented a bill along with the petition. That is unique and should help to move the process along. The Scottish Parliament is all about moving things on quickly. I would not like to give the impression that there is any criticism of those who sent in the petition. It is great that they have gone to the trouble of including the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C520127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 520127,
      "EditedText": "I want to go on record as echoing the points made by Pauline about the committee's role. As convener of a committee, I know that we will be incredibly burdened by our work load and by the expectations of the public and our expectations of ourselves. I do not see how the parliamentary committees will be able to cope with the work load if we accept everything that comes to this committee. This committee must have a role in ensuring that things are competent. Pauline's point about the fact that the petition refers to an unpublished book is also important. Every budding author in Scotland could be on our books trying to make their point and get some publicity out of our talking about them. We must define our role more clearly. Surely we must be seen almost as the gatehouse to the system. I do not think that any of us wants to act in a way that is not open and accessible—quite the opposite—but there is no point in our accepting everything and passing petitions through to subject committees if we know that all that will happen is that the committees will get bogged down. The serious work that subject committees have to do will be jeopardised if we do not put some kind of restraint on our decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 520131,
      "EditedText": "That is a motion which is being put before the committee; it is the committee's decision, not mine.To be fair to Mr Frank, there is no clear public guidance on how to present petitions to the Parliament. His petition is in order, although it is not set out in the clearest way. In future, there will be guidance for the public that will allow people to come into line and will deal with many of the problems that have been highlighted this morning.I am anxious not to get into turf wars. We will not start fighting with the other committees about who should be doing what, but we should have an agreed relationship with the other committees. I hope that the conveners liaison committee will be the main way in which we achieve that. However, I am perfectly happy for the committee to decide to write back to Mr Frank to suggest that he liaise with the clerk to the committee in order to put his petition in a more presentable form that would be dealt with at a future meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 520135,
      "EditedText": "The public could perceive our actions as being unnecessarily bureaucratic. All we have to do is to send the petition on as a measure of some people's opinion and perception, because we have not yet agreed procedures.However, I would not fall out with committee members; if the majority view is that we want to proceed on that basis, that is fine with me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 520139,
      "EditedText": "I agree. Everyone agrees that this is not a precedent, but a one-off that is happening because we are at an early stage in the committee's procedures and public guidance for petitioners has not yet been published.We will deal, as proposed, with Mr Frank's petition and then progress to the public guidance that will set down the real precedent for the way in which people should petition the committee. Everyone will be expected to come in line with that public guidance and will be dealt with accordingly.Are we agreed? Thank you.The next petition is again from Mr Frank. He calls for the European Committee and the Equal Opportunities Committee to take a view on the extent of the authority of the European Court of Human Rights in Scotland. That court is concerned with international relations and is therefore a reserved matter. This Parliament cannot make laws about international relations, but we can debate anything and can take a position, even on reserved matters.Technically, we cannot immediately reject the petition on the ground that it relates to a reserved matter. It is open to us to pass the petition to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee to be considered for further action; that might be the best way of dealing with it. Again, I am open to other views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 520140,
      "EditedText": "I am glad that members of the public can question matters that are reserved to Westminster and are not being gagged as some MPs are. I am more than happy for the petition to be passed to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 520142,
      "EditedText": "Given that this will set a precedent and that the rules for submitting petitions suggest that issues should be within the competence of the Scottish Parliament, I query the legitimacy of this petition. It would be competent for the issue to be debated in the Parliament if it were raised by an MSP: Mr Frank could contact his constituency MSP or list MSPs, who could attempt to initiate a debate.In the notes on petitions, it is stated quite clearly that the petitions we deal with should be within the competence of the Scottish Parliament. I feel that this petition is beyond that competence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 520148,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps this is why conveners are a bit worried about our committee. Phil suggested sending the petition back to an MSP. By doing so, we would be making a decision and it is not our place to decide to tell Mr Frank that we cannot send the petition on to be debated elsewhere in the Scottish Parliament. We are walking a thin line in this committee.I agree that the petition should be sent to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. People have a right to have a subject debated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 520151,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is the same argument."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 520152,
      "EditedText": "It is within the competence of the Scottish Parliament to debate the matter. The question is this: is it wise for us to refer every such petition to the committees or should we find a way to deal with them ourselves? Pauline's point is that petitions such as Mr Frank's could lead to a massive work load that would clog up the committee system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 520157,
      "EditedText": "We can take many courses of action. What option would we give to Mr Frank?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 520162,
      "EditedText": "We are frightened of setting precedents and of the committee structure grinding to a halt if we allow everybody to petition every committee. However, we are in the early stages of the committee and public guidance will be issued. No decisions that are taken today will serve as a precedent or have long-term implications for the Parliament. We are making heavy weather of the seven petitions that we have before us—God knows what will happen when we have 70. With that in mind, I suggest that we refer the petition to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. I am sure that it will be dealt with quickly. The public guidance should be out by the next meeting of our committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 520170,
      "EditedText": "I think that the law would have to be changed if the proposals were accepted. That is why I suggested passing the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee, which has responsibility for the relevant legislation. However, I accept that the Rural Affairs Committee has an interest in the petition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 520181,
      "EditedText": "The two positions that we have expressed are not contradictory. Are we agreed that we should attach a note to both petitions? We are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing and Research",
      "HeadingID": 14185,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 14185,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 520183,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful to have the meeting in private as we will be able to get more in-depth information, which might embarrass other people if it were more widely known. Embarrass is perhaps the wrong word, but it would be possible to have a more frank exchange in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C520184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing and Research",
      "HeadingID": 14185,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 14185,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 520184,
      "EditedText": "I agree. We might be given examples of situations that have proved difficult and people might not want that information to be known in public. Also, although I am sorry to harp on about constraints, it is difficult to find public committee rooms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing and Research",
      "HeadingID": 14185,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 14185,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 520185,
      "EditedText": "I would hate to give the impression that we will be meeting secretly. We will be taking part in information-gathering sessions. I would prefer it to be known that we are being briefed by ministers in that context, rather than being given information in secret."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 520193,
      "EditedText": "You are absolutely right, John. The general impression was that COSLA wanted to have a continuing liaison with us and that that is important for all the committees. There has always been a fear that we will try to take over the role of local government and that it will lose power. It was important to get across the idea about working in a real partnership; that sends out the right message. It was a welcome meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C520205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 520205,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I am giving any state secrets away by saying that the same opinions were expressed at the conveners group. Committee conveners want us to get out and about and to get closer to people, particularly if we are debating issues that are of particular relevance and interest in a specific area. The backdrop to this is the fact that all of us want the Parliament to be as open and accessible as possible. We were concerned at some of the constraints that might be put upon that. Obviously, there are budgetary constraints and some practical restraints that we perhaps do not think about when we say that it would be great to go here or there. This is an issue to which the conveners committee will return; we may have to find ways around it that mean that we do not have full committees moving around the country. We can be quorate at a smaller number and we can find ways of taking information from people around the country that might not involve full committees. There seems to be a need for official reporters and so on. This is an area of great concern, certainly to me as a convener, and it was generally felt by all the conveners that it was an issue that MSPs took seriously. Picking up on Phil's point, I do not think that we should be taking the committee outside Edinburgh every month, but three or four times a year would not be excessive. In the life of a big subject committee there will always be occasions when people across Scotland are going to want to come along and have their say and listen to what is going on. MSPs should not be sitting in Edinburgh all the time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 520213,
      "EditedText": "I am saying that we should set a precedent, John."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 520214,
      "EditedText": "The problem is that if any visit by this committee to any part of the country is to be an official meeting of the committee, the clerks, the official reporters and other officers must be there before the meeting can be regarded as official, and that must be funded. If we go out we are going to have to be choosy because there will not be money to do otherwise. We must choose the instances in which we think going elsewhere would be justified.We could also consider that the full committee need not attend. The costs of transporting all seven members of the committee to somewhere else in Scotland would be quite high."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 520218,
      "EditedText": "There is a figure, but we are not allowed to say what it is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 520220,
      "EditedText": "It is still under discussion by the conveners liaison committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 520221,
      "EditedText": "Is it under negotiation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520222",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 520222,
      "EditedText": "It is under negotiation by the liaison committee. The conveners are aware of the problem and are trying to find a way around it that will allow committees to travel about, but there are severe budgetary restraints on all the committees. I hope that there will be a report back from the next conveners liaison committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 520223,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to the point that I made at the start of this debate—that the committee should have meetings outside Edinburgh only on selected issues. I accept that, but I would like to query the convener's point about budgets. We are all paid expenses to come to Edinburgh, so what would be the difference between that and paying our expenses to go Glasgow, Stirling or Perth? Would it be a great difference? If the convener is going to quote budgets, he must give me a bit more in the way of information on the costs of us all appearing here in Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 520226,
      "EditedText": "I think that the next meeting of conveners is on 7 September, so I will report back at the next meeting of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 520227,
      "EditedText": "I accept what you have said, but could the clerk provide us with the comparative costs of holding a meeting here in Edinburgh and in one of the public buildings in Glasgow? That would give us a fair idea of what costs we are talking about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 520230,
      "EditedText": "Stranraer, Wick and Thurso are just as entitled to have the committee meet there if there is a requirement to go and visit. There is not just an implication for costs—there is the issue of practicalities. We have a committee work load, perhaps 14 constituency surgeries to attend and all our case work. There is a cost to that in terms of the choices that we must make. We are not attending to our constituency requirements during the time that we spend travelling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 14183,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 520089,
      "EditedText": "I go along with what the convener has said and agree with his conclusions. However, technically, is not tomorrow, rather than today, a sitting day of Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520090",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 2962
    },
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      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 14183,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 520090,
      "EditedText": "I do not know the answer to that question—Interruption. The committee clerk informs me that a sitting day is any day on which the office of the clerk is open, which includes today. Today is a sitting day of the Parliament even though the full Parliament does not meet until tomorrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520091",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 14183,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 520091,
      "EditedText": "That is great."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520094",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
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      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 520094,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone else have comments? Christine?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520095",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 520095,
      "EditedText": "My name is Sandra—I have not changed to Christine. I reiterate what Phil said. The petition should be discussed, and it is better for it to go to the Transport and the Environment Committee than to a minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 520098,
      "EditedText": "My experience so far is that the role of the Public Petitions Committee is not quite understood by colleagues. The reaction is, \"What does it do?\" As the convener said in his opening remarks, people will slowly realise that this committee is the one committee to which the public have direct access, in order to indicate that they feel strongly about this or that issue. As time goes on, and as we get a feel for the number and type of petitions that are submitted, we can consider rules on time scales for monitoring. In addition, on issues that keep coming up in questions and petitions, such as the A77, we might consider adding a note from the committee, by way of comment, to say that we think that the issue is important, or that we would like it dealt with as a matter of urgency and so on. I would not want us to make up such rules now, but as time goes on we should consider developing effective ways in which to ensure that, once people have taken the trouble to submit a petition, there is a way of tracing it that involves comments from this committee on how we feel it should be dealt with. The meeting of conveners is important, as we should get it across to the other committees that that would be a way of scrutinising their work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520102",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 520102,
      "EditedText": "Later this morning, we will discuss guidance for the public on the submission of petitions. Perhaps we could consider at that time how we handle the issue of urgency. It is a good idea, but we should use it judiciously, so that we give priority to petitions that we think should be dealt with urgently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 520104,
      "EditedText": "I go along with Pauline's point. The upgrading of the A77 was in the roads programme, but it was knocked back following the review. Since then, there have been a number of serious accidents on the A77, and there are other specific problems. On that basis, there is good reason for the clerk to include a comment on urgency. I would be happy to leave that issue to the end of the meeting, when we have considered the other petitions, to establish in our own minds whether urgency should be attached to one or to all of the petitions. If we attach urgency to all the petitions, we lose the effect. Can we revisit this petition at the end of the meeting to agree whether we will insert the word \"urgency\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 520106,
      "EditedText": "We should refer the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee. Andrew Welsh, the local member of Parliament, raised the issue at Westminster and, if we are considering urgency, it is a matter of urgency as it has been going on since 1993. According to the supporting documents, the residents seem to be suffering terribly, and the issue could be a test case of SEPA's new powers on rapeseed crushing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 520107,
      "EditedText": "I am in favour of the petition being passed to the Transport and the Environment Committee. However, SEPA's inaction seems to be an issue, and perhaps we should also draw it to the attention of the Minister for Transport and the Environment, as she might want to consider that part of the petition. Questions should be raised about SEPA, as that is the point of the petition, but perhaps we could also ask the minister to consider SEPA's inaction."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520112",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 520112,
      "EditedText": "I wanted that to be clarified. We shall get lots of things like that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 520118,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point, but Sandra's point was also fair. We do not want this committee to become the plaything of PR companies that use it for their own purposes. It is extremely important that that is made clear. It is therefore agreed that we will refer the petition to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and that the clerk will write as appropriate to the people concerned.The next petition is from an individual, Mr Maurice Frank, who has submitted a petition that calls for the Parliament to debate and give a response to evidence of\"life-threatening harm suffered by students in school and university who are subjected to unreasonable pressures for high achievement\".Mr Frank points out in his petition that he has written an unpublished book, \"Child Epicentres of Mass Madness\". He believes that it deals with an important issue and is concerned that it is not being made available to the public. I think that we should leave it to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee to decide on a response and that the clerk should write to Mr Frank along those lines. However, it is open to the committee to agree or disagree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 520122,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, we will issue public guidance on how to submit petitions to the Parliament—that is dealt with later in the agenda. However, I do not think that this petition is in any way technically out of order. It is in order as it asks for a debate on an issue that is relevant to the Scottish Parliament. It is a legitimate request."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 520125,
      "EditedText": "The suggestion in the original briefing before the recess was that no further action on Mr Frank's petition should be taken. This morning, the updated papers suggest that the petition should be sent to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. When was that decision taken? I understand that conveners have a role in such decisions. Was it suggested at the conveners' meeting that the role of this committee is not to take decisions? We all seem to be in agreement that we should be taking decisions of some sort on petitions, such as this one, that are hard to read, state an opinion and could open the floodgates to more such petitions. We should not protect committees, but we should at least have some flexibility to say whether it is correct for certain petitions to go forward. Why has the suggested action on this petition been changed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 520126,
      "EditedText": "That decision was made in consultation with the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. It is conscious of the problems that petitions of this kind present, but thought that in matters relating to education it, rather than the Public Petitions Committee, should find the form of words to deal with such petitions and to respond to the petitioner. However, I take your point entirely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 520130,
      "EditedText": "I back that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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      "ID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 520133,
      "EditedText": "Yes. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 520134,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 520136,
      "EditedText": "I take the opposite view. We are trying to help the people who write in, who may not necessarily be professionals, and we should give them any help we can. If this petition is presented to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and cannot be easily read, it might just be sent away. If Mr Franks is helped to present his petition properly, it might be taken in a different light; that is why it should be sent back to him with proper guidelines."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 520137,
      "EditedText": "We would not establish any precedent by doing so, because in future guidelines will be available to the public, and if they are not followed, the petition will be dealt with accordingly. Individual help from the clerks will not be available each time; the clerks could not cope with that. This is a one-off because we are at an early stage in the process.I took the view that there was a majority in favour of Christine's motion, but Pauline—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 520138,
      "EditedText": "With the proviso that we are not setting a precedent. I have concerns—I think we all do—about the petition, and I take a harder line. Most people know the difference between a petition and a letter. I have signed a thousand petitions, as most people have, and it is common for names to be legible. The point of a petition is to demonstrate the support of real people with real addresses that can be readily identified and checked if need be. We do not need bureaucratic rules for people to understand that; it is the basis of petitioning any public body or institution.One of the things that will have to be drawn to Mr Frank's attention is that names must be clear; I cannot read the names in his petition. That cannot be allowed to happen in future. Further, the petition mentions Edinburgh District Council, Fife Council and so on. To me, it is a letter, not a petition.We must have the proviso that we are not setting a precedent, and it must be made clear before any redraft that petitions are not a substitute for people publicising their own books or for writing letters about matters of concern to Fife or Edinburgh council. Sorry, that is a lot of provisos, but we must ensure that we do not walk into anything—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 520141,
      "EditedText": "I do not know of any MPs who have been gagged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 520143,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that it is within the competence of the Parliament to debate anything. We could not act on the debate, but we could certainly express a view. It would be within the competence of the European Committee and the Equal Opportunities Committee to take a view on the matter. Mr Frank is within his rights in asking them to take a view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 520145,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 520147,
      "EditedText": "We are agreeing to refer the petition to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 520150,
      "EditedText": "That is a different argument from the one that Phil used and it is probably more relevant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 520153,
      "EditedText": "If the committee wants to pass the petition to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, I will go with the flow. However, we may get more petitions like Mr Frank's and I think that it is valid for us to point a petitioner in another direction and, sometimes, not to pass petitions on to the committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 520158,
      "EditedText": "Phil's suggestion was that we could tell Mr Frank that, having considered his petition, we believe that it would be best for him to contact his MSP."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 520160,
      "EditedText": "I would be worried if members of this committee became protective of other committees of which they are members. The petitions that we receive have to be used as a barometer of public opinion. Committees might not always be able to resolve the issues, but we have to present the petitions to them and leave them to examine their substance and prepare a report, which will be dealt with in the appropriate way. We should not be over-protective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 520164,
      "EditedText": "I understand that he has already submitted petitions to those committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 520165,
      "EditedText": "He can submit petitions only through this committee. I suggest that the Justice and Home Affairs Committee should consider the petition. Phil's point is a matter for that committee, which could pass the petition to the Equal Opportunities Committee if it chooses.It is agreed that Mr Frank's petition be passed to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee.The next petition is from Mr Guild, and is to do with Edinburgh's transport and traffic problems. He has petitioned the Parliament to establish a procedure, whether it be an inquiry or a commission, to deliver an effective integrated transport system for Edinburgh and the south-east of Scotland. He is particularly concerned about the proposal to build a new bus station and Harvey Nichols store on the site of the St Andrew Square bus station and the fact that the new station will be separate from the train station.The petition deals with a substantial issue. Although the Scottish Office invited all local authorities to produce local transport strategies, which they are developing, I suggest—this is becoming something of a routine—that we refer the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee to consider.Is that agreed? It is. We will write to Mr Guild about our decision.The final petition before the committee today comes from the Scottish Homing Union, which wants Scots law changed to grant racing pigeons a status that would allow owners to protect their birds. It also asks Parliament to agree on population levels for birds of prey. It is concerned about the peregrine and the sparrow-hawk, which are protected by law but are fairly causing havoc with homing pigeons, killing them in great numbers. The issue has been raised in Westminster on several occasions and causes high feelings among those who have homing pigeons. They believe that the law is unfair, but the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds takes a different view. As this is an important issue for many people in Scotland, I suggest, again, that we refer the petition to the poor Transport and the Environment Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C520166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 520166,
      "EditedText": "The Transport and the Environment Committee will send birds of prey against us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 520167,
      "EditedText": "There are strong feelings on the issue and, from my Westminster experience, I can vouch that the lobby is vociferous. However, Westminster never found the time to deal with the problem, which is the kind of problem that the Scottish Parliament should be dealing with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 520171,
      "EditedText": "Who sets the criteria for the protection of birds?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 520172,
      "EditedText": "Birds are protected under the Countryside (Scotland) Act 1981, for which the Transport and the Environment Committee is responsible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 520174,
      "EditedText": "Could we send it to both committees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 520178,
      "EditedText": "I agree. If we decide that the Ayrshire chamber of commerce's petition is urgent, we will give the impression that we believe that that road scheme is more important than many of the other road schemes across Scotland. Each of us could cite road schemes that we believe to be important. Although Kincardine bridge is not in my patch, it is close by and I would place it high on any agenda. We do not want to give the impression that we think that the A77 is more important than, for instance, the Arbroath scheme that was mentioned earlier. We do not want to pre-judge a matter that is for the roads review group to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 520179,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Christine and Helen: we should not rank petitions in order of importance. However, we should be able to attach notes to petitions and we should do so with those two petitions as they have been lying since the beginning of the recess. Given that the Transport and the Environment Committee has a lot to consider, it would be worth informing that committee that the petition has been lying for eight weeks and recommending that it be considered first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Briefing and Research",
      "HeadingID": 14185,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ID": 14185,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 520182,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is an offer from the Executive to brief the committee on the consultative steering group's report on petitions and the general principles of openness and accessibility. The Parliament's research staff have offered to brief us at the same time on the handling of petitions at Westminster and elsewhere. We have been asked whether those briefings would be useful to the committee and, if we think so, whether we want them to be held informally, in private, or formally, in public.As we agree that the briefings would be useful, we will set a date for them. Should the meeting be held in private or in public?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14186,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 520189,
      "EditedText": "That is something that we should be dealing with, and I hope that when we receive the amendments and the comments it is included in them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
      "HeadingID": 14186,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14186,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 520190,
      "EditedText": "I would like the public to be able to come along and address the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Guidance",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 520191,
      "EditedText": "That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520196",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 520196,
      "EditedText": "We have already discussed this. As soon as we agree the public guidance on petitions, we will return to the idea of a press launch of the committee to draw the attention of the public in Scotland to the committee's usefulness. We have had only eight petitions, mainly because people do not know that we are here. I hope that, once we have held the press conference, the Parliament will receive a lot more petitions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 520199,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the headlines in tomorrow's press will be \"MSPs looking for work\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 520203,
      "EditedText": "I have observed that when the Parliament began, many people expressed the view that it should not meet only in Edinburgh. I note that all the meetings of this committee, and of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, are in Edinburgh. There are perhaps good reasons for having meetings in the mornings, afternoons and at lunchtime while we are here, but we should recognise that if we want to take the committees around Scotland we will sometimes have to suffer some inconvenience. I suspect that the Public Petitions Committee will not always set the heather alight, but there might be contentious issues in future that are of particular local interest. It might be that on some occasions we should hold options open on venues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 520204,
      "EditedText": "At the first meeting I asked whether there would be an opportunity to get around the country and, tongue-in-cheek, mentioned the fact that if people are coming through to Edinburgh it might cost them more money because of the toll tax. I was assured that we would consider the matter. It is expensive for people who have been invited to speak to the committee to travel here if they are coming from up north or wherever. Travelling around the country would be an example of the openness of the Parliament. I know that the budget is small, but the Public Petitions Committee is probably one of the committees that could travel. We do not have an abundance of clerks and so on, and we do not have to have access—as the Justice and Home Affairs Committee does—to books and to other committees. This committee could be the first one to go around the country; perhaps not every month, but at least quarterly, when people who wish to speak cannot manage to come down to Edinburgh. I wondered whether we could consider that issue and the budget. The convener mentioned finding out how much money there is for travel, but it would be less costly to go to the other side of the country than for everyone to come to Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 520206,
      "EditedText": "We do not; we go back to our constituencies and people see us there. I am in favour of having more contact with the public—this is one of the committees in which we can do that—but I am not in favour of a carte blanche to move the committee around the country; it should be appropriate and there should be a good reason for it. I support Margaret's point that there might be ways around the problem. For example, if we are seeking information, and it is easier for us to go to an area, two of us might agree to do that. I am not sticking rigidly to the idea that there must always be a full committee meeting or that the meeting must always be here, but I am not happy for it to be minuted that the unanimous decision of the committee is that we move around the country just for the sake of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 520207,
      "EditedText": "I strongly support what Pauline says, and re-emphasise that I am not against going around the country meeting people. According to some papers, such as yesterday's Daily Record, I am supposed to have had 17 weeks' holiday this year. I have probably had only seven days' holiday over the recess, so I take great exception to the Daily Record headlines. When I was at the new, reorganised Fife Council, we took our committees around Fife, which is a big area. The members who were most enthusiastic at the beginning were the people who went on to say, \"Wait a minute—this is not working.\" One reason it did not work was that not all the rooms available for meetings had intercom and sound systems. Right across the area, people had access problems with where the meetings were held. There were problems organising the committee clerks to be in the same place at the same time in such a large geographic area. When we arrived at the destination, we sometimes found that critical information had been left back at base. The process cost a phenomenal amount of money. We were up against hard, stark choices. We could have been of benefit to voluntary groups, who were able to see from the budget at the end of the financial year that we had chosen to go out and about when they were having their budgets cut by similar amounts of money. Pauline is right: we should look at the specifics. If there are specific reasons that are good and justifiable, we should meet elsewhere, but we should remember—as Pauline rightly points out—that if we are invited we can go out individually to meet people and see for ourselves specific aspects of concern for our constituents that are within our committee remits.We need to take the responsibility seriously, so I am four-square behind what Pauline says. Let us push for committee meetings in other parts of the country when there is a crying need for it, but let us not do it just for the sake of it, which would—quite rightly—raise a lot of questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 520209,
      "EditedText": "Some of the other committees, such as the Justice and Home Affairs Committee and the Transport and the Environment Committee, have a wider remit and a lot of clerks, so they might not take their meetings around the country. This committee deals with the public. People will take enough interest to get a petition together and will be interested enough to write in. It is paramount that we get out to see the people. Edinburgh is not the be-all and end-all. The problem with Westminster was that it was too remote. We thought that the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh would be much more accessible. It may be accessible from the central belt, but it is not accessible from further-flung areas. This committee should set a precedent by going out, perhaps quarterly. It is paramount that we are seen to be meeting the public. We are not going to say, \"We are having a meeting here; send public petitions here\"—that would be silly. If certain issues come up in areas from which people cannot travel, we should be duty bound to go and hear the petitioners, particularly when we are saying that they may be able to speak to the committee. It would be only quarterly or twice a year, depending on what came in, but we should not be static. We belittle petitioners if we say that we will move about and then send two members of the committee. That is not what the petitioner put the petition in for; they put it in to hear it properly presented in front of the whole committee. We should carefully consider moving about to different areas.Helen's comments about the Daily Record were absolutely right. We may now get more holiday because of Jack McConnell, who is telling us that we will get 30 days. That is very nice of him, but I would have been lucky to get a fortnight's holiday during the recess. Most of us, regardless of our party—I say this for the press—are very hard-working constituency MSPs. We did get out there and work. Perhaps it could be pointed out to Jack McConnell that we did not get even 30 days' holiday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 520215,
      "EditedText": "A possible compromise could be to delegate the authority of the committee to the convener and a deputy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
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      "ID": 14187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 520232,
      "EditedText": "I would take great exception to this becoming a central belt committee that gravitated between Glasgow and Edinburgh. We must think about the whole of Scotland. This is not Glasgow's or Edinburgh's Parliament; it is Scotland's Parliament. There are restraints and we can achieve nothing more by discussing the subject further this morning. We must see the budget, see how other committees are accessing that budget and then see what is possible. I will report back on the state of play from the next meeting of the conveners. We can give the subject further consideration then.Does the committee agree to the schedule of meetings that has been set out? It does."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 520156,
      "EditedText": "So Pauline has in mind our duty to consider and determine the courses of action, which we are extending."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 520161,
      "EditedText": "I was not being protective of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee; I was suggesting that the petition be passed to it as I think that that would be appropriate. I did not have in mind only the other committee of which I am a member but all the committees. We should assist committees by having petitions in a presentable form."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 14184,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 520175,
      "EditedText": "That would lessen the likelihood of the Transport and the Environment Committee being vindictive towards us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 520177,
      "EditedText": "I have reservations about ranking petitions in order of urgency. It should be apparent to the committee that receives the petition whether the matter is urgent. Perhaps, rather than attaching a formal note to the petitions, you could raise our concerns at the conveners liaison committee meeting, John."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "COSLA Meeting",
      "HeadingID": 14187,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 221.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ID": 14187,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 520195,
      "EditedText": "I hope that our consideration of a form to assist people with petitions will be part of a wider education—and not just of COSLA, but of the Scottish public in schools and elsewhere. There should be an understanding of how this committee can best work for the Scottish people. I am talking about the younger generation and an education programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.7844329+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520096",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 520096,
      "EditedText": "Petitions are a means for the public to push the Executive into moving forward, instead of sitting on proposals. This petition does just that. Although the matter is under consideration, it remains open to the public to bring something forward if they feel that it is not being dealt with efficiently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 520114,
      "EditedText": "Having practised law myself, I hesitate to come to the defence of a law firm, but this petition is interesting in that it shows the range of organisations that will use the system and highlights the fact that we need to be alert to ensure that such organisations are not lobbying groups. I might come to eat my words, but in defence of Maclay Murray & Spens I would say that the petition, which relates to something in Scots law, is fairly put, as are other items on the agenda that are still to come. I am glad that we are dealing later with how the public should submit petitions. We do not want petitions to come only from people who are one step ahead, but also from ordinary people, who see the committee as a means of putting forward their opinions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Petitions",
      "HeadingID": 14184,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ID": 14184,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 520129,
      "EditedText": "I will return to that, but my concern for this committee is about us not looking at the form; by no means do I want to strangle ordinary petitions.I have looked at the draft public information guidelines that we were given today and, although I have not yet read them in detail, they seem a good idea. The guidelines are along the lines of the simplified procedures used in the sheriff court and small claims actions, whereby people fill in the documents with the help of the clerks to the court or, here, the clerks to the Parliament.I move that on this petition, we write to Mr Frank to suggest that he redraft the petition, perhaps with the assistance of the clerks and using the petition form, so that we are better able to consider it. That would be not just for our ease, but for the ease of the other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 417337,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that Mr Wallace was not in this seat until May of this year. However, I have before me the sheriff's decision in the Ruddle case, which makes for very interesting reading. I am sure you are very familiar with it, Mr Wallace. You stated that the public \"wants protection now\". It is apparent from reading the sheriff's judgment, starting at page eight, paragraph 7.11, that in March 1998, Dr White, who was the responsible medical officer for Mr Ruddle, informed the Department of Health—at that early stage—that Mr Ruddle had expressed his intention to appeal detention. That was when the alert was first put out into the domain of the Government. Paragraph 7.16 on page 10 of the sheriff's report details an annual examination by a panel of the medical sub-committee of the state hospital, Carstairs, which took the view that Mr Ruddle ought to be discharged. It waited for the return from holiday of Dr Chiswick. I am not sure when he was informed, but shortly thereafter the applicant was told of the committee's decision that he should be discharged, as were Dr White and the respondent—which at that time was the Government. As early as that, this case was on the agenda. Paragraph 1.3 on page 16 of the sheriff's report tells us that the provision of evidence in the appeal commenced on 9 April and continued until 30 April. Court proceedings are now in hand, and on 2 September we will be tackling emergency legislation. What happened to Mr Ruddle's case from March 1998 until Mr Wallace got that minute?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 417339,
      "EditedText": "I have heard what you have said, Mr Wallace. I am concerned about the fact that, when it was obvious that Mr Ruddle was going to appeal for his discharge, most of the psychiatric medical team at Carstairs supported him. What legal advice did you take on how successful his appeal was likely to be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 417385,
      "EditedText": "Will you just confirm when the family became aware that there were movements in the matter of Mr Ruddle's release?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 417474,
      "EditedText": "I would like you to consider the second part, which I think is as important as the first. Picking up on what Patricia said about victim support—much of which I agree with—my second question concerns a simple matter that could be performed by the service. There is no obligation to tell a victim—who may be the prime witness—when a bail appeal has been successful. We know that one of the conditions of a successful appellant's bail is that they must not contact witnesses. However, main witnesses should be told that a bail appeal has been successful to ensure that they do not find out when they meet the appellant in the local supermarket the next day. The police are often blamed for that. Cannot such a measure be introduced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 417512,
      "EditedText": "At the first meeting, I mentioned post-decree continuation of matrimonial interdicts. The wording—of definitions, for example—will probably be more complicated than we think. As was rightly said, the issue is linked to the matrimonial home, yet how can it be a matrimonial home when the couple no longer occupy it? I have one correction: the matrimonial interdict falls, but usually a lawyer will also take out a common-law interdict at the time of taking out a matrimonial interdict. In principle, I think that it is an excellent idea, but it may prove technically quite difficult. I am no expert in drafting, and we would be tinkering with a substantial act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 417522,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back to the request for suggestions on people who could come to the committee. Should we invite somebody from the family law group to represent family lawyers generally? Their input on practical difficulties might be very useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 484.0,
      "ContributionID": 417560,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the Scottish people are in the mood for that to happen to their committees. I quite agree with you that we need an agenda after a report is remitted. We have already decided in the public petitions committee to have something like that, in that we will attach notes to our recommendations. I also wanted to say that it is important not to have too many things before us at any one time. It is a lot to have someone from Scottish Women's Aid, or family law groups, or the police superintendents, appear before us in one session and present their different views of the impact of current legislation and any suggested amendments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 417328,
      "EditedText": "I see that we have been joined at this stage by both law officers as well. It is our intention to direct the first section of questioning to Mr Jim Wallace, who is the Minister for Justice, and to Mr Angus MacKay, who is the Deputy Minister for Justice. We will then move our attention to the role of the law officers. We hope to reserve a period towards the end of the two-hour session for a discussion with the four witnesses together.Thank you for agreeing to come to the committee, Mr Wallace. It would be helpful if you began by taking a few minutes to explain what your role is as Minister for Justice and what your responsibilities and those of your deputy are. It would be particularly helpful to know what the interaction with the law officers is, as a lot of people do not understand that clearly. You may wish to take this opportunity to make a brief statement about current Executive initiatives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 417336,
      "EditedText": "I know that other members of the committee have questions on that particular area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 417344,
      "EditedText": "Other psychiatric evidence was obtained and laid in evidence before the sheriff. The definition of treatability at which the House of Lords arrived in the case to which I referred, from near the end of 1998, was very broad. The secretary of state and those who were advising him resisted the application, believing that they had a strong case to put before the sheriff. The Lord Advocate may want to expand on that when he is questioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 417350,
      "EditedText": "That is a responsibility of the health department. However, I assure Christine Grahame and the committee that the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland has been instructed by the minister to investigate the circumstances of treatment at Carstairs, making specific reference to the sheriff's observations in the Ruddle case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 417352,
      "EditedText": "He could have applied at any time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 417354,
      "EditedText": "It is for the sheriff to decide, having heard all the evidence, whether an application would be successful or unsuccessful. I am not in a position to make that kind of judgment, which would, in many respects, be more of a clinical judgment than a legal one. It would not be proper for me to make that kind of judgment. However, I assure the committee that the former Secretary of State for Scotland opposed Mr Ruddle's application."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 417356,
      "EditedText": "I inform Mr Gallie, the committee and the members of the public who are present, that immediately prior to this committee meeting, I signed the bill and the docket that I am required to sign to testify that, in my opinion, the bill complies with the requirements of the Scotland Act 1998. The bill will be lodged formally with the clerk of the Parliament and should be published tomorrow, when members will be able to obtain a copy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 417361,
      "EditedText": "Would a judicial review have been available?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 417362,
      "EditedText": "The question of a judicial review was discussed at some length between the Lord Advocate and the First Minister. I subsequently discussed the matter with the First Minister. The unequivocal advice given to us was that no action would be taken that would lead to Mr Ruddle being detained in custody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ID": 2172,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 417363,
      "EditedText": "Does Mr Wallace believe at this stage that that advice was sound, or, in retrospect, that a judicial review was perhaps open to him?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417366",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 417366,
      "EditedText": "I am very grateful to Mr Gallie for giving me an opportunity to clarify matters. If he read some sections of the press, that stop-go idea might have formed in his mind—or in other people's minds. I indicated on 4 August that we wanted legislation and that I would try to bring it forward when Parliament resumed. I did not underestimate the difficulty in making it comply with the, nor did I disregard the outside chance that we could not do so. It is important to recognise that there was no stop-go at all. There was a considerable amount of work and effort: checking case law, looking at and evaluating the options and checking them against the European convention on human rights. I said on 4 August that my target would be when Parliament resumed. I said in an interview on \"Good Morning Scotland\", two weeks ago I think, that that was our intention. I think I said it twice more on \"Good Morning Scotland\" last week. I made the point that we were not going for a knee-jerk reaction. Mr Gallie and I have been at Westminster and he knows that Westminster does not always get it right when it knee-jerks. I do not believe that these measures are a knee-jerk. The bill, which I have signed, and which I hope we will debate later this week, has been carefully considered and is framed so that it tries to plug the loophole that emerged as a result of Sheriff Allan's judgment on the Ruddle case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 417367,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that we welcome that. I would like to pick up on a final point. In early August, Mr Wallace was asked whether other cases that bore similarity to the Ruddle affair were likely to go to appeal. At that time, his answer was that he was not aware of any. Yet we found that the cases of Tonner and Doherty went to appeal in mid-August—on 17 August I think. On what advice was Mr Wallace operating in the early weeks of August?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 417369,
      "EditedText": "You referred to the meetings that took place, Mr Wallace. I would like to put it on record that while both David McLetchie and I were prepared to accept the explanation in one of those cases, there was a difference of opinion about the categorisation of the second as somehow being distinguishable from the Ruddle case. There is an on-going controversy about the second case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 417374,
      "EditedText": "The House of Lords did not help us at all because it took such a wide view of the treatability test. In view of that, what the minister said today is welcome.I do not know what hints you can give us, minister, given that the bill has been seen only by you and your junior minister, but I would like to know whether the new powers will be given to the minister or to the sheriff.  Also, given that the new test will be based on public safety, what guidance will be available to sheriffs and the minister when they consider cases? It is at that point that human rights come into play."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 417376,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to ask a follow-up question, Pauline?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417384",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 417384,
      "EditedText": "Because of patient confidentiality, it can be difficult to inform a victim's family about an application, but that is one of the issues that the Deputy Minister for Community Care, Mr Iain Gray, was alert to. He instructed inquiries to be made as to how the family of Ruddle's victim were being catered for."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417386",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 417386,
      "EditedText": "I will seek to do that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
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      "EditedText": "There are other issues that members will want to raise, but I do not want to cut this discussion short as I know that other members have questions on this case. I shall therefore allow another five or six minutes for discussion of the issue, and I ask members to keep their questions short. Let me open up the debate somewhat and get away from this narrow point. You talked, Mr Wallace, about the Reid case, which was the first to flag up this matter as a potential problem, followed by the Ruddle case in 1998. It was around the middle of 1998 that it was intimated that that case would be an issue; we know that from the sheriff's judgment. I appreciate that the events in question predate your taking office, but do you know why the committee to review the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 was not established until April 1999, and why the MacLean committee was not set up until January 1999? What explanation, if any, was given to you of the time-lag between the previous Administration being aware of the problem and actually setting in train committee proceedings to look at it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C417395",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 417395,
      "EditedText": "And how the interim measure has worked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 417396,
      "EditedText": "The First Minister and myself have kept Mr Millan and Lord MacLean informed of what we are doing, and have invited their committees to take into account the emergency legislation that we are putting through the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 417397,
      "EditedText": "Very briefly, on the basis that you have answered many of the questions that I had, do you have any idea how many people will be involved with and affected by this legislation at present?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 417398,
      "EditedText": "Off the top of my head, I could not give you an answer, but it is important to make the point that sections 63 and 64 of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 are the procedural route by which restricted patients can—indeed must—appeal, following the original court order. There is an annual right to appeal for discharge from hospital under section 63, which could apply to a wide range of patients. Equally important, however, is that it covers a wide range of conditions. Every case is different and is assessed on its individual merits. Some would not be considered for one moment—even before there was any question of concern for public safety. I cannot give you a number, but it is important to put this into context. This appeal route is not open solely to psychopathic killers who are currently patients in Carstairs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 417400,
      "EditedText": "As I have indicated, and I welcome the opportunity to repeat it, we are introducing the legislation as an interim measure pending the outcome of the MacLean and Millan committees because we believe that a loophole that did not allow public safety and public protection to be taken into account was exposed. We wanted to plug that loophole to ensure that in future sheriffs will be required to take public protection into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 417403,
      "EditedText": "The raider of the lost titles is a victim of the leasehold casualties measure, which is not one of the measures that we are introducing. Leasehold casualties—I did not actually name them—are on the Law Commission's list of work to be done, to which I referred."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 417404,
      "EditedText": "That leads me on to the next point. Will Mr Wallace give us an idea of when the Parliament can expect to consider legislation on leasehold casualties?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 417405,
      "EditedText": "I cannot give members a date. I am aware that the Law Commission has proposed a whole raft of legislation; there will be other matters to consider that fall within the responsibility of the Scottish Executive justice department. All members will recognise—and possibly in six or seven months' time they will recognise even more clearly—that there is a heavy legislative load. I cannot even promise that it will lessen. For example, we still await the Law Commission report on real burdens, which is due towards the end of this year and the beginning of the next. The report and the bill attached to it will be important, because, as members will have realised from what we have been saying about the abolition of the feudal system, the bill on real burdens is required to fit in with the abolition of the feudal system. That is another bill that is to be introduced. I mentioned the law on diligence; in family law, responses to consultations are now being considered; and the law on charities is another major issue. This committee will not have a shortage of legislative work—all of it is important. By mentioning all those—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 417411,
      "EditedText": "I shall not give Tricia Marwick a commitment when the issue has not gone before the Cabinet in regard to future legislative programmes. I believe that the relationship between this committee and the Scottish Executive justice department will be fruitful and productive. In committee discussions, if members flag up specifics such as leasehold casualties, we will look at our legislative programme. The concerns that members are expressing will be a good measure of the relative importance that we will attach to those bills. I hope that we will have a fruitful relationship and that members can flag up these issues, because there will be a number of bills to be considered. Fortunately, with leasehold casualties there is a bill. I hope that this and future dialogues will help us to prioritise the bills that are waiting. I take the point that Tricia Marwick made on leasehold casualties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 417414,
      "EditedText": "I have undertaken to go back and look at the matter of Brian Hamilton and the raider of the lost titles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 417416,
      "EditedText": "Although it is a Law Commission bill and has been the subject of much work, study and consultation, it need not be the last word; I would not expect this committee to rubber-stamp it. I therefore hope that when we get down to debating the bill on a section-by-section basis, the committee will put forward its amendments. I undertake to look at the amendments in a constructive fashion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 417420,
      "EditedText": "I should have thought that local firms would be key consultees. After all, those who are appearing in the sheriff courts know the pros and cons. I would give them every encouragement to respond to the sheriff principal's offer of consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C417421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 417421,
      "EditedText": "I emphasise that all bodies must respond to the consultation. The consultation list should have included South of Scotland list members; perhaps that could be passed on to the sheriff principal. That would have been helpful. One of the key issues must be access to justice and people's difficulty in getting to the suggested alternative courts. Some people simply will be unable to attend because of problems with public transport. Equally, the police have concerns about the availability of witnesses. If witnesses have to travel a considerable distance to get to a sheriff court outwith their locality, that might make the task of the police more difficult. It is important to respond to the consultation, and I urge anybody who has an interest in it locally to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 417423,
      "EditedText": "Phil Gallie is referring to people whose connection with Scotland might be only a birth certificate and two months' residence. That is enough to allow the Canadian or Australian authorities to abdicate responsibility for them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 417425,
      "EditedText": "It is one thing for the Home Office to consider the matter but, as we have a Scottish Parliament that can consider legal issues and this is a key issue for the public, I would like the minister to get up and running with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 417426,
      "EditedText": "We will consider the matter further. It makes sense for us to be tied in to the work that is being done by the Home Office, as cross-border issues are involved, but it also makes sense for us to go back and consider the situation in the light of Mr Gallie's question. Perhaps we could write to the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 417430,
      "EditedText": "Copies are being circulated, Lord Advocate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 417433,
      "EditedText": "There is a system of monitoring. The fiscals report back, through the regional procurator fiscal, to the Crown Office. There is no policy to downgrade charges in road traffic cases or in any other cases. The fiscal must consider the evidence that is available to him or her and form a view as to whether the proper charge is one of careless driving or the more serious charge of causing death by dangerous driving. What must be considered is the quality of the driving, not the consequence of the driver's actions, as has been said frequently in the courts. I understand the distress that such cases cause to the relatives of people who are killed or injured in road traffic accidents, but we are bound to examine the quality of the driving rather than its consequences. In such a situation, the fiscal looks at the police report and at the available evidence and decides on the basis of that evidence alone whether it is a case of careless driving or of something more serious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 417442,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 417446,
      "EditedText": "Does the Lord Advocate appreciate that for most people the perception of his fiscal service is that they are the people who appear on the day of the trial and who they have no further contact with?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 417452,
      "EditedText": "No, but you are sitting beside someone who can speak to him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 417454,
      "EditedText": "Victim Support Scotland claims that victims of crime are denied basic information about crucial decisions in the prosecution of cases. Would Lord Hardie care to comment on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 417456,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that the IT system will be very welcome in updating information, but nothing beats having somebody to talk to. That is vital."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 417461,
      "EditedText": "I was trying to say in my statement that we are working—with the justice department—towards improving the facilities for victims. At this very moment, officials are working on a joint paper to consider how we can improve the victim's lot. It would be wrong of me to give any assurances that that will result in a victims charter. I would like to await the outcome of that joint venture between my department and the justice department. Once we have completed that we will come back and report to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 417462,
      "EditedText": "This is not a new point; it is on the same running theme. As members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, we have already received a number of letters from the Dekker family, raising these points. I can see that we are going to continue to be bombarded with mail of a similar kind. I think that you will find that members of the committee intend to take the matter very seriously. We do not want to bog you down with individual cases, but we will pursue them so that families such as the Dekker family get an answer.I would like to pick you up on some elements of your statement. I think it is fair to say that the prosecution service is perceived as being isolated and one that people cannot approach to get answers. You said that you are working with the Scottish Executive justice department, but we would like to be included, because we have quite a bit to say: it is a matter of developing the transparency of the service and enforcing your statement about consistency and transparency. Some families cannot, with the information available to them, see where the law has been consistent—which is one of our aims. There is plenty scope for us to work together; it is all about making the prosecution service seen to be a bit more approachable and, as Trish Marwick said, avoiding a piecemeal approach and having a charter so that victims know that they have rights—if they want to use them—and can find out why a particular case turned out a particular way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 417464,
      "EditedText": "I have four points, and will ask each question without following up with supplementaries. First, Lord Hardie, do you consider that if someone with no licence and no insurance commits a driving offence in which someone dies, having deliberately driven contrary to the road signage, that crime should be treated in the most serious way?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 417465,
      "EditedText": "I think that it should be prosecuted as appropriate, depending on the facts. It should be prosecuted, first, for the statutory charge of not having a licence and, secondly, for the statutory charge of not having insurance. Then, as far as the driving is concerned, what the appropriate charge is depends on the evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 417466,
      "EditedText": "I regret saying that I would not follow up my question—never mind. You talked in your statement about Scotland having the most rigorous custody time limits in the world. With the incorporation into domestic law of the European convention on human rights and the requirement to include a solicitor to represent charged individuals—which can make that tight time limit disappear because of the time required to bring the solicitor to the scene—do the police now face a very tight time limit when charging people?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 417475,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to mislead the committee, but I can say that in cases of successful appeals, where—as you have suggested—the victim does not know that an appeal has been successful until he or she sees the appellant in the street, we have instructed the Crown Office that it should pass the information about a successful appeal to the procurator fiscal so that it is communicated to the victim. Part of the difficulty, which is not a criticism, is the speed of communications now. Although the media are not present at bail appeals—which are conducted in private—they are present at appeals, and information about such proceedings can get back quicker through those channels than it can through some official passing it on from the court. We are addressing the issue and are considering how to improve communication with victims."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 417476,
      "EditedText": "I should remind the Lord Advocate that a number of members of the media are sitting right behind him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 417477,
      "EditedText": "I am always conscious of the existence of the media, which is probably a tribute to the fact that they are speedier on their feet than other people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 417478,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the Crown Office needs to investigate the issue, rather than find itself outgunned by the media.I and the rest of the committee wish to flag up the policy of refusing to give any reasons for decisions not to proceed. I will write to the Lord Advocate about a particular constituency case that involves that policy; however, I know that at the moment there is a blanket refusal to give such reasons. Has any consideration been given to finding a compromise between the current closed door and the full—and, you feel, inappropriate—disclosure of reasons? This is an area where members of the public will simply refuse to be patted on the head any longer and told that the matter is too complicated for them to understand and that they should go away and not ask questions about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 417483,
      "EditedText": "Live for ever?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 417484,
      "EditedText": "—will condemn people through the back door."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 417487,
      "EditedText": "Minister, did you want to come in at this point?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 417489,
      "EditedText": "I think it is fair to say that we have lost the sense in which the Lord Advocate played an active part in parliamentary proceedings in the chamber. Today, we are getting a clear indication that we are now back to an original position, in which the Lord Advocate does play an active part in chamber debates, albeit not as a voting member."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 417492,
      "EditedText": "May I ask a separate question? Perhaps Mr MacKay would like to answer it. Laughter. His boss referred to Westminster. I draw his attention to the Sexual Offences (Amendments) Bill that is currently progressing through Westminster. Can he advise me what stage that bill is currently at? Will he give an assurance that no matter what stage it is at, it will be brought into the Scottish Parliament for debate because it has Scottish implications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1911E107P234C417493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacKay, Angus",
      "ID": 1911,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy Minister for Justice (Angus MacKay): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 417493,
      "EditedText": "The short answer is that I cannot give a categorical statement as to what stage the bill is at, but my understanding is that it will come to the Scottish Parliament and we will address the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417499",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ContributionID": 417499,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is appropriate that we draw this part of the proceedings to a close."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 417501,
      "EditedText": "Very quickly."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417503",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 366.0,
      "ContributionID": 417503,
      "EditedText": "There was a consultation paper entitled \"Improving Scottish Family Law\". The responses to it are still being analysed. It is our intention that we should be able to make an announcement regarding the Executive's intentions before the end of this year. Off the top of my head, I cannot say whether the issue of same-sex marriages was covered in the paper or whether we will be addressing it, but I will get back to Pauline McNeill on that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417504",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 417504,
      "EditedText": "I would like to draw this part of the proceedings to a close. On behalf of the committee, I thank the four of you—Lord Advocate, minister, depute minister and Solicitor General—for appearing before us today. I also take the opportunity to issue the warning shot that when ministers appear before committees and take the opportunity to make statements that is afforded them, they should ask their advisers to err on the side of brevity rather than length. I think that all members of this committee would join me in saying that we do not want such occasions to become simply an opportunity for further ministerial statements. That is a brief warning shot, as committee time is constrained. Having said that, thank you very much for the courtesy with which you have received our questions. You have, no doubt, a great deal to think about and to respond to regarding individual questions, and we expect to see all of you—together and individually—during the coming weeks and months. Thank you very much.I will now suspend the meeting for five minutes only. I am conscious of the fact that it has become extremely hot in here and that people may need a short break for a variety of reasons. I ask that we reassemble at 5 minutes past 4 to discuss the next agenda item, which is the committee's business for the next few weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417505",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
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      "ID": 143
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 417505,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended at 16:03."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ContributionID": 417506,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 417507,
      "EditedText": "The next item of business is what we wish to do as a committee in the coming weeks and months and the issues that we might wish to examine. We had a brief, general discussion in June at the first meeting, during which members indicated areas of concern. The committee has been allocated weekly slots from now on, and we must ensure that we maximise the time that is available to us.There is a matter that I wish the committee to consider, and I know that Maureen Macmillan has another. I will ask Maureen to outline the issue that she wishes us to consider, following which other members may speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 417509,
      "EditedText": "Maureen, would you object to this discussion being extended a little to allow consideration of other changes that could be made to matrimonial interdict, in the same bill? Would you be happy for that to be discussed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 417510,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but I do not want to overload the discussion as I want to get this measure through as quickly as possible. It might be held up if it becomes too complicated. However, we could certainly discuss other members' proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417513",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 417513,
      "EditedText": "We have ascertained that somebody from Scottish Women's Aid would be available to come to the committee next Wednesday morning if the committee thought it appropriate. We could then at least begin to look at and talk through some of the issues with somebody who understands even more than we might. Before Wednesday, we should consider inviting more people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 417517,
      "EditedText": "I do not wish to cause fear and alarm among the clerks, but I think there is. As long as the proposal is clear, it can be turned into a draft bill. That comes back to what Maureen said about not making any bill too big. We do not want to end up with pages and pages. The proposal is meant to be short.Does anyone want to come in specifically on this issue? I would like advice about people who committee members think it would be appropriate to invite to talk to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 417518,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pick up on Gordon's point about time. The Government is putting through three bills that will, presumably, have to come to committee for detailed debate. That will take up quite a bit of time. This morning, Pauline, Christine and I sat in the Public Petitions Committee, which will receive petitions. That will add to the time spent debating. We must examine the time element that was mentioned by Gordon and we must be rational about what we will take on board"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 417519,
      "EditedText": "I take those comments on board but in my position as convener I want to state that I do not want this committee to have its entire agenda dictated by other committees, by the Executive or by people who are not part of this committee. We must have the ability and the time afforded to us to pursue some of the very serious issues that will arise.We must, after all, remember that the point of committees is to hold the Executive to account. It would be a mistake if we allowed ourselves to have no time to do that. That will be a matter for the bureau to juggle. It needs further discussion, but I want to put down a marker at a very early stage that we will not have the entire business of this committee dictated from outside. That would be unfair to members of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 417520,
      "EditedText": "I agree and I do not think anyone in this committee wants that. We all have our own responsibilities, apart from committee membership, so I have no problem with what you are saying.I would like to hear from Scottish Women's Aid—or others—about the need for this proposed legislation. I agree with Christine—I can see some complications with drafting a bill. I am in favour of going ahead, but I think that we must allocate sections of ongoing work and work to come. I would be in favour of allocating a lot of time to hearing the case and progress from there on the principle that you mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 417523,
      "EditedText": "It would be very useful to get on to that quite quickly. I am conscious that we do not have much time and that that is why we took it upon ourselves to ensure that Scottish Women's Aid can come next Wednesday morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 417525,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that we can arrange things like that. We were told that we would get two Executive bills in September, and we are almost at the beginning of September. We have this committee meeting today and there is another timetabled for next Wednesday morning, when we do not have Executive business to discuss.Let me explain briefly how the system will work. When bills are referred to us for what is called stage one, we will be given a time within which to complete that stage. We will examine each bill and make a report on its principle, which will be sent to the Parliament. At that point, the bill will receive what would be described at Westminster as its second reading. In other words, we will get a first bite at the legislation, but will be expected to complete our work within a specified time, which will be dictated by the Parliamentary Bureau. That is why I say that the bureau will have to consider carefully how it allocates time. It would, I think, be unreasonable for the bureau to do so in a way that precludes our dealing with other business. With the committee's agreement, I will make that point to the bureau. At this stage, that is as much as I can say, but I will report back to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 417526,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, all we are discussing is what we will do next week—which is essential, because that is where we are in the life of this committee. There needs to be some flexibility to allow us to deal with emergencies, such as somebody else being released from Carstairs, but we should have a diary that allows us to know what we are likely to be doing week by week until Christmas, for example. Is that to be the case, or is everything to happen week by week, on the hoof?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C417530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 422.0,
      "ContributionID": 417530,
      "EditedText": "When we are considering legislation, at what stage do you envisage our consulting other organisations or individuals—at the line-by-line stage, or at the initial stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C417532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 417532,
      "EditedText": "A couple of weeks is not much time to consult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 438.0,
      "ContributionID": 417538,
      "EditedText": "What would we produce?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 417540,
      "EditedText": "We have been asked to consider two quite different projects. Maureen wants us to initiate a bill and you want to scrutinise the subject of prisons. I am against neither project, but, to go back to Gordon's point, with which everyone agrees, we do not yet know what our timetable will be like. Until we do know, I suggest that we allocate a slot for Scottish Women's Aid—perhaps an hour—and hear their case, then allocate some time for prisons in the following meeting and take the projects on from that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 417542,
      "EditedText": "I am just anticipating the situation arising that Gordon raised. By next week we may well have something in front of us to consider. I would expect to see the bills, if not by Wednesday, at least by the following Wednesday. That needs to be taken into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 454.0,
      "ContributionID": 417546,
      "EditedText": "I want to press you on something, Roseanna, as I want to understand. If we consider something, such as the report on prisons, which I am happy to do—it is a major issue and it is our job to scrutinise everything—what comes out at the end? I am still trying to work that out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 464.0,
      "ContributionID": 417551,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
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    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C417556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
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      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 476.0,
      "ContributionID": 417556,
      "EditedText": "One of the perceived weaknesses of the select committee system in Westminster is that it produces well-argued cases and excellent recommendations which may have all-party support, but the reports disappear on to a Government shelf. I would like us, if we are doing something along that select committee line, to offer the Executive a period in which to respond to the recommendations that we make, and then to call the relevant ministers here to speak to what they have done about those recommendations, or why they are not pursuing them. The problem with Westminster is always that once a report is produced it disappears into a void and nothing happens. That does nothing for the committee process and nothing for the problems that have been identified. I would like us to go that stage further, and I am sure that is what is in your mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C417559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
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      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 482.0,
      "ContributionID": 417559,
      "EditedText": "They do at Westminster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 494.0,
      "ContributionID": 417565,
      "EditedText": "You need to check it about half a dozen times a day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 500.0,
      "ContributionID": 417568,
      "EditedText": "I wanted to go back a wee bit. After we have heard from Scottish Women's Aid and the family law group, how soon will we make the decision to proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 502.0,
      "ContributionID": 417569,
      "EditedText": "It will be entirely up to members of the committee to indicate whether they feel that they have heard enough or whether they wish to allocate another session at which to hear more.At the moment, we are going ahead with the meeting next Wednesday morning and we will consider domestic violence. We may also have the first session of one of the bills included in that, depending on what the Executive does between now and then. Is everyone happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 510.0,
      "ContributionID": 417573,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I declare this meeting closed."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C417574",
    "Meeting": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:51."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 417381,
      "EditedText": "I have been told that the first news that the McConvilles had of Mr Ruddle's release was from the press on 6 August. Perhaps the minister can find out whether that was the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 417383,
      "EditedText": "The aim of my question was to establish when the family were informed that that person would be out and about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 417419,
      "EditedText": "I take it that local firms will be involved. If there are sheriff court closures, such firms might be unable to sustain a solicitor's office in those areas, to provide the range of services—not just court appearances—that are necessary in a community."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 417343,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that, Mr Wallace."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 417349,
      "EditedText": "Is that regime in place now, or can you not answer that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 417353,
      "EditedText": "Unsuccessfully?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 417330,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, minister. Perhaps I may open by referring to the issue that is most in the news, and on which you touched earlier. At this stage, perhaps you could tell the committee when you were first advised, in your capacity as the Minister for Justice, of the problem likely to be posed by the Ruddle case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417331",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 417331,
      "EditedText": "I was first advised of it in a minute dated 14 July, which was copied to me—I cannot say whether it was as Minister for Justice or as Deputy First Minister—and set out for ministers the background to the Ruddle case and the appeal before the sheriff at Lanark."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417334",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
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      "EditedText": "That was the first intimation that you had of the problem posed by Ruddle?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417329",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 417329,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener, and members of the committee.I welcome this opportunity to meet members of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee formally and to set out the policy framework within which ministers will tackle the wide range of justice issues that confront us.First, I understand that the committee would like to hear a statement on ministerial responsibilities. In simple terms I, as Minister for Justice, and Angus MacKay as my deputy, are responsible for all justice and home affairs policy matters, including criminal and civil law, the police and fire services, emergency planning and freedom of information. The Lord Advocate, who will expand on this in his own statement, is responsible for the prosecution service and for legal advice to the Government. If it would be helpful, we will provide the committee with a note on ministerial roles and responsibilities.To improve co-ordination in law and justice, and to provide a coherent basis for taking forward a wide range of policies, we have created a new department: the Scottish Executive justice department. It will be responsible for a number of bodies and agencies that provide important services in this field: the Parole Board for Scotland; the Scottish Prison Service; the Scottish Court Service; the Office of the Accountant in Bankruptcy; the Scottish Legal Aid Board; the Scottish Law Commission; and the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission. The department also has general responsibility for the National Archives of Scotland, Registers of Scotland, and the census.As ministers, Angus and I also have wider cross-cutting responsibilities for land reform and for drugs. Those issues involve other departments of the Scottish Executive as well as the justice department. For example, in the case of drugs, the creation of the drugs enforcement agency clearly falls within the justice field, but health education and treatment are health matters.I understand that the committee would also like to hear a statement of the Government's legislative programme on justice. The First Minister announced the Government's first legislative programme in his statement on 16 June. Three bills in that programme fall within the responsibility of this committee; the abolition of feudal tenure bill; the land reform bill; and the adults with incapacity bill. I understand that the committee has already had an informal briefing from officials on two of those bills. We all recognise that the committee will have a substantial legislative load and that in the coming months we will become very familiar with each other and with the bills. In addition, we must be ready to respond to unexpected problems. The existence of a Scottish Parliament will make it possible to deal quickly and effectively with the need for urgent legislation in a way that has not been possible in the past. We intend to ensure that your committee is given notice as soon as possible of our plans to introduce legislation on matters within the committee's remit. We will be willing to consider representations from members of the committee about the need for legislation when our support might be helpful in taking matters forward.The need for immediate action by the Parliament has arisen already in the form of emergency legislation to deal with the loophole that has been exposed by Mr Noel Ruddle's absolute discharge on 2 August 1999, by the sheriff, from the state hospital, Carstairs.The bill will set a new test of public safety that must be satisfied before a sheriff can discharge a restricted patient under section 64 of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. It will introduce a new right of appeal to the Court of Session against the decision of the sheriff. The bill will have effect in relation to appeals under section 64 on or after 1 September 1999, and will bite on appeals currently in process. It is an interim measure and will not pre-empt the important work of the Millan and MacLean committees, which are examining mental health and serious and violent offenders.I am happy to answer questions from the committee on the bill. In any case, it will be the subject of full debate and detailed consideration in the Parliament later this week and next.Our role as ministers is to work with everyone involved in the justice system to promote continuous improvement in the provision of justice in Scotland. I would like to set out our criminal justice strategy. We want to tackle the social causes of crime. We know from research that there are certain risk factors associated with crime, which is not to deny individual responsibility for criminal behaviour. However, tackling low incomes, poor housing, low school attainment, community disorganisation, substance abuse and neglect will reduce the risk factors and consequently reduce crime. Our social inclusion policies are designed to do just that. They provide the basis not only for our policy on criminal justice, but for our whole social justice policy.Tackling social causes is a long-term policy. The public want protection now. We will provide that protection through community safety planning and active policing policies, through more information technology and closed circuit television, and through more policing initiatives, such as those on drugs and knives.We must also ensure that the law is adapted to respond to changes in criminal behaviour. Recent changes have included new powers, such as anti-social behaviour orders, sex offender orders and a range of new measures to deal with racial harassment, which will provide extra tools for the police and other organisations in their task of protecting the public.When the police catch criminals, the offenders need to be brought to justice promptly and dealt with effectively. We want to see the courts operating more swiftly and we will take forward a range of efficiency measures. We want to ensure that the courts have an effective range of sentences from which to choose. In particular, we are keen to develop alternatives to custody.We also need to support victims. We need to pursue measures to protect vulnerable and intimidated witnesses, including children. The Lord Advocate will say more about that, covering not only his responsibilities in that area, but those of the justice ministers. We need to protect women; we will implement an action plan on violence against women. Tackling domestic violence is a matter to which we attach high priority.Above all, we believe that the system must enjoy the confidence of the public as a fair system. We have announced an action plan on the Macpherson inquiry on the Stephen Lawrence case. The main objective of that is to ensure that people from ethnic minority communities are treated fairly. More generally, the incorporation of the European convention on human rights into domestic law is designed to increase the fairness of our system. The establishment of the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission will ensure that all representations about alleged miscarriages of justice are considered independently.That is our broad agenda on criminal justice. We will take it forward energetically and we look forward to working in partnership with the committee to deliver it.I come now to civil law and the civil justice system. We wish to encourage the progress that has been made in recent years towards improving the quality of civil justice. We must enable all sections of the community to have access to justice and we want to encourage the development of other methods of resolving disputes, which may avoid the need for cases to go to court. In the interests of efficiency, we need to ensure that cases are determined in the right level of court and that the higher courts are not filled with business that could be dealt with more economically by a lower court. As a first step, I can announce today that, following consultation, I am going to increase the small claim limit in a sheriff court from £750 to £1,500 and the summary cause and privative jurisdiction limits from £1,500 to £5,000. Full details are set out in the parliamentary answer that I am giving today.An important area of law and practice, and one that has been topical in recent days, relates to the enforcement of orders of the courts. There has been widespread concern surrounding the diligence of poinding and warrant sales. Warrant sales pose genuine problems. As ministers, we want to establish the case for the abolition of warrant sales, before Parliament moves to consider legislation. The consequences of abolition must be addressed, as should the challenge of providing an effective and modern replacement. Parliament is well placed to consider those issues quickly and thoroughly and I welcome an early discussion with both the convener of this committee and the convener of the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee on how to progress.It is essential that due regard is taken of everyone with an interest, including local authorities, business and those who represent the interests of low income groups. I am also inviting the Scottish Law Commission to re-examine whether its conclusion that warrant sales should not be abolished remains valid and, if so, on what grounds. We cannot consider warrant sales in isolation. We need to examine what might replace sales in the general framework of diligence. Research into poinding and warrant sales will need to be evaluated along with the other research reports. A further report in relation to diligence and the dependence has been submitted by the Scottish Law Commission, and two further reports on attachment orders and money orders, and on diligences against land are expected next year. That should ensure proper consideration of the diligence system as a whole, while urgently addressing poinding and warrant sale.We need a comprehensive and principled approach to the problems of civil justice. Our policy should not be piecemeal. I am, therefore, considering how our policy can be more co-ordinated and responsive. To do so, I will have discussions with all the key interests about developing a strategy for civil justice.I have already mentioned three of our bills which will make important changes in civil law; other important bills will follow, some drawing on the valuable work of the Scottish Law Commission, others, in future drawing, I am sure, on the ideas of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. I mention family law and charity law as two major areas on which we are working.The quality of our justice systems depends in large measure on the practitioners, in particular on the judiciary and those who practise before it: the prosecutors and defence agents; those who advise and represent litigants. It is an essential feature of our legal system that the courts should be, and are, independent. We are committed to ensuring that that is the case. That is even more important in the light of the incorporation of the European convention on human rights.I would like to conclude with a word about judicial appointments. The Lord Advocate will be happy to answer questions on how the current system works. It is essential that the very best candidates be identified to fill the offices of judge, sheriff principal and sheriff. All must be seen to be independent and free to exercise judgments without fear or favour. I firmly believe that our judiciary is of high quality and that we are well served by them. However, I am aware that there is concern that our system of judicial appointments is not sufficiently transparent and that some form of independent judicial appointment body should have a role to play. That is why we announced in the partnership agreement, issued by the coalition, that we would consult on arrangements for making recommendations for the appointment of judges and sheriffs. I can inform the committee that the consultation will get under way before the end of the calendar year and that we will consult widely. Our response will be made public and the committee will have the opportunity to discuss the matter in detail before decisions are taken. It is important that the prosecution of crime in Scotland should be seen to be independent from all interests, particularly those of the Government. As justice ministers, we are committed to that, and to the independence of the Lord Advocate's position as head of the prosecution service. The Lord Advocate will deal with that more fully in his statement.However, I understand that, before the Lord Advocate makes his statement, the committee would like to put questions to me, and I would be happy to answer them."
    },
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  {
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
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    },
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 417335,
      "EditedText": "That was the first time that I, personally, was given that information."
    },
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  {
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    "Meeting": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 417340,
      "EditedText": "You personalise the matter. I did not take any legal advice."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417342",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 417342,
      "EditedText": "The secretary of state, as he then was, has legal advisers who are very experienced in dealing with such matters. He was advised to resist this application for discharge. That is what he has done. I am sure that the most effective case possible was presented. Counsel was instructed to meet the challenge of that case."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 417346,
      "EditedText": "I cannot answer that question, as I have not seen any such note from counsel."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 417348,
      "EditedText": "The Minister for Health and Community Care, Susan Deacon, has already asked the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland to investigate the particular circumstances of this case—including the treatment regime applicable to Noel Ruddle at Carstairs. That was a prompt response. The issues that Christine Grahame raises in her question will be a proper matter for consideration by the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417359",
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      "ID": 2378
    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 417359,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pick up on a couple of the points that Christine Grahame made, regarding the release of Mr Ruddle. Why did not you, as a minister, make the decision to appeal that release? Did you base that decision on the judgment of the law officers? Did you take a strictly ministerial overview of the issue? What circumstances prevented you from proceeding with an appeal?"
    },
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 417365,
      "EditedText": "There seems to have been a bit of a stop-go approach to the introduction of the emergency legislation. We have seen Mr Wallace on a number of occasions over recent weeks saying, \"Yes, we're going ahead with it,\" and, \"No, perhaps we've got to stand back.\" Is he absolutely firm in his belief that the bill that he is presenting meets all the criteria necessary to conform to UK law and European law?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417368",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
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      "EditedText": "Again, I welcome the opportunity to clarify this. I did not mislead anyone. When I met Ms Cunningham and Mr McLetchie on 4 August, we discussed the handful of cases which officials, having trawled through many cases, identified as being potentially Ruddle-like. In saying that, I do not in any way concede that they would go the same way as Ruddle's case, in case anyone says at a future date that I have made some concession on that. Neither of the two appeals to which Mr Gallie referred came into the category that we were discussing. One of them was lodged only on the day when I had my meeting with Ms Cunningham. If that appeal succeeded, the applicant would be transferred back to prison. It was therefore in a very different category from the case of Noel Ruddle. As all members of the committee will understand, it would be improper to go into details because the case is sub judice. When that trawl had been done, it was found that the other case had distinguishing features that did not make it appear to be in the same class as the Ruddle case. We believed—and we still believe—that sheriffs ought to have the opportunity to take into consideration the issue of public safety. That was not available to the sheriff at the hearing on Noel Ruddle's case. The issue of public safety will be a key element of our bill. The bill will take effect, subject to Parliament's will, from 1 September. That will affect not only the two appeals to which reference has been made but any appeal that might be made. All hearings in cases to which section 64 of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 applies will be subject to the test of public safety. The sheriff will have to apply himself or herself to the test of public safety.The bill provides for applications to be made directly by the First Minister. Governments have always taken public protection into account, but the bill requires that the First Minister take public protection into account in case a judicial review decides that public protection is an irrelevant consideration."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417375",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
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      "EditedText": "You are right to point out that the issue is one of public protection. That is an important consideration that was not available to the sheriff in the Ruddle case.To make this bill more compliant with the European convention on human rights, the burden of proof will rest with the First Minister, who will have to lead evidence before the sheriff as to his concerns about public protection and public safety. It could be argued that that is what would have had to happen anyway, but it will be a matter of law that the burden of proof will have to be discharged by the First Minister. I think that I am correct in saying—and the Lord Advocate is sitting beside me—that the term that is used in the bill is one that is already used in other statutes when reference is made to public protection, so it is not a novel concept."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417378",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
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      "EditedText": "There will be no guidance in the legislation, but I understand that the First Minister would have to lead evidence—psychiatric evidence or the evidence of people who had had contact with the patient in the hospital—that was designed to persuade the sheriff that there was an issue of public safety. It is not uncommon for that to happen. The sheriff would have to balance that evidence and I have no doubt that the applicant might bring evidence to try to rebut it. That responsibility would rest with the First Minister, but in the case at Lanark concerning Noel Ruddle, the sheriff was unable to get a public safety test because, as soon as he deemed that there was no longer any treatment available to Mr Ruddle at the state hospital that would either ameliorate his condition or prevent its deterioration, he was obliged to discharge without proceeding to a test of public safety."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C417431",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
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      "EditedText": "I beg your pardon. I thought that there were 20 copies. I will read quickly through my statement to assist the committee.I am grateful to you for inviting me to speak to the committee. I am particularly delighted that it has been possible for the Minister for Justice and his deputy to be here at the same time. Our collective attendance reinforces our mutual commitment to be as helpful and open with the committee as we can and to remain accountable for our actions, however controversial they may be. All four of us expect that this committee will be used to examine pertinent details in greater depth than will be possible this afternoon. I encourage you to do that. However, that is not the purpose of the meeting today.This meeting provides me with an opportunity to outline the wide-ranging responsibilities and functions of the Lord Advocate and Solicitor General, who are collectively known as the law officers. We are agreed that on this occasion I should speak for both of us, although the Solicitor General stands prepared to answer questions. We have divided the topics so that, depending on the questions that you ask, one or other of us will answer.We are now the law officers to the Scottish Executive. Part of our function is to provide legal advice to the Executive on its full range of responsibilities, policies and legislation, and crucially on whether its proposed actions are within devolved competence and are compatible with the European convention on human rights and with European Community law. This important new role as advisers on the vires of the Executive's actings has resulted in both of us being included in the Executive by virtue of the Scotland Act 1998. The advisory role has also resulted in my appointment to the Cabinet, where, again, this function includes the provision of legal advice on the legal implications of the Executive's proposals.As Lord Advocate, I have a special role in relation to devolution. It is my duty to take a view on whether the provisions of a bill are within the Parliament's competence. If it is necessary to do so, I can refer bills to the judicial committee of the Privy Council for decisions on competence and I can raise and defend proceedings on devolution issues in other courts.Because of devolution, issues will arise that affect devolved areas and the rest of the United Kingdom. We will liaise with the law officers of the United Kingdom on those issues. We look forward to working with the Advocate General for Scotland and with the English law officers to ensure that there are no avoidable misunderstandings in legal questions on devolution issues. That will be an important new dimension of the law officers' work. I should emphasise that, to assist me in that particular role, there is a small secretariat of lawyers within the Crown Office. Another important role for me as Lord Advocate is that, with effect from 1 July, I am professionally responsible for the office of the solicitor to the Scottish Executive. That office provides legal advice and a full range of legal services to the Scottish Executive.I turn now to prosecution, with which most of you will identify the office of Lord Advocate. The decision to devolve the entire criminal justice system in Scotland as part of the new constitutional framework was perhaps one of the most natural and inevitable decisions of the devolution process. In many respects the system is so distinct from its English and Welsh counterpart that it is in fact a structure that is already devolved. The offices of Lord Advocate and Solicitor General are ancient and integral parts of the fabric of the Scottish legal system, and the line of Lords Advocate can be traced back to 1483. Similarly, the concept of independent public prosecution in the public interest in Scotland was recognised in an act of 1587 giving the Lord Advocate the right to prosecute even though parties \"would utherwayis privily agree\".The Scotland Act 1998 sets out the basic or retained functions of the Lord Advocate and Solicitor General and ensures the preservation of the fundamental principle of independence of the Lord Advocate in respect of his duty of prosecution in the public interest. The act also provides that the Lord Advocate continues as the head of the system of prosecution and deaths investigation in Scotland. He is the operational head of the sole prosecuting authority for Scotland: the Crown Office and procurator fiscal service. I am assisted in discharging those responsibilities by Colin Boyd, who is sitting beside me. The concept of collective responsibility applies to my role in the Cabinet as legal adviser, but it does not apply so far as my prosecutorial and deaths investigation responsibilities are concerned. Indeed, in discharging those functions, I must act wholly independently of the Executive or of any other person. That independence has been guarded jealously by successive Lords Advocate and I intend to be no exception. It is vital that prosecution in the public interest in Scotland maintains an independent and balanced approach. Prosecution must not give favour to any political whim, pressure group or media construction about what should or should not be prosecuted or given priority. Prosecution must truly reflect the public interest in a considered and independent fashion. You will also be aware that important areas of the substantive criminal law remain reserved, including firearms, road traffic law and misuse of drugs. The prosecution of crime in those areas must not be seen as compromised in any way by virtue of the Lord Advocate's membership of the devolved structure, particularly as procurators fiscal receive reports from more than 50 reporting agencies in addition to the police.A significant number of those—in particular HM Customs and Excise, the Inland Revenue and the Health and Safety Executive—are reserved agencies. Prosecution decision making is rarely a process that receives unqualified, unanimous acclaim. The very nature of the decision is such that, if the victim welcomes it, the accused will not and vice versa. Many powerful and vocal lobby groups exist to support the interests of each. Prosecution to please would be an easy, quick fix to gain popularity whether with the Executive, Parliament, the media or whatever lobby group exerts sufficient pressure and threats at any moment in time. That is not what my office or my department is about. Prosecution decision making is a tough exercise and is sometimes unpopular but it is a process that is based on a thorough examination of the evidence—and I emphasise evidence—application of the law and careful assessment of the public interest. Those decisions must be made independently of the victim and of the agency reporting the matter—that is a safeguard for all of us and it is a duty that I accept without hesitation. Independence is not, however, to be taken as an excuse for isolation, impenetrability or arrogance—or, indeed, for lack of accountability.The public interest must be informed and our work takes into account a wide range of information, including research, intelligence on criminal trends, knowledge of local problems and features of a particular jurisdiction as well as carefully researched and considered prosecution policy issued by the Crown Office on my behalf. My obligation to comply with the European convention on human rights also imposes the duty that decision making must be both proportionate and balanced where convention rights exist. Those obligations are taken seriously within my department. The incorporation of the convention on human rights is a major challenge for all public authorities and one that is central to the operation of my department. It is a priority for my department to demonstrate that all of its activities are compatible with convention rights. In general, the priority issues for the prosecution in Scotland are set out in my department's strategic plan. I advise the committee that we are about to embark on planning a new strategy for the next three years. Effective prosecution of serious, violent and sexual crime within tight time scales remains a major priority for our new strategy, as does the fight against the menaces of drugs trafficking and child abuse in all of its obnoxious forms. Racially motivated crime and domestic violence are also undergoing review to ensure that our approach is as effective as possible.I appreciate that the Crown Office and the procurator fiscal service provide an essential public service and that many victims of crime, and other witnesses, find the criminal justice process daunting and stressful. That applies particularly to people who are vulnerable because of personal circumstances or because of the nature of certain crimes, such as rape. Others fear intimidation, which may deter them from reporting offences or make them reluctant to give evidence in court. We will be taking forward measures to improve the protection of and facilities given to vulnerable and intimidated witnesses, including children. That follows up the consultation paper \"Towards a Just Conclusion\", which was issued in November 1998. The responses to that consultation are being considered and I hope that we will shortly be in a position to set out firm proposals for action.Officials from all agencies in the system are involved in providing information to victims and all are working to develop a system that would allow victims who choose to receive information to be provided with it automatically. That would be linked to a computer program—the integrated Scottish criminal justice information system—which will in due course allow better information sharing among criminal justice agencies about individual cases. An automated scheme would not replace existing contacts between victims and criminal justice agencies, which are often very much valued and which my department is committed to improve. An information technology based system will supplement those contacts by ensuring that key information is available when required. My responsibility for the investigation of sudden and unexpected deaths is also a substantial and important area of work. Although the exclusion of the possibility of homicide is the major objective of such investigation, the investigation of fatal industrial accidents, disasters, deaths in custody and medical mishaps illustrates the wide range of deaths investigated by members of my department. The investigation of complaints against the police by the regional procurators fiscal is a particularly important aspect of the independent investigation of allegations of crime and one in which Colin Boyd has a direct and leading role.Colin Boyd and I are accountable to the Scottish Parliament for the manner in which we discharge our responsibilities; we hope that, where possible, we will be in a position to be as open as those responsibilities allow. As will be clear, our departmental and advisory roles are wide-ranging and onerous. Although there is no set policy portfolio for each of the law officers, as there would be with other ministers of the Executive, Colin Boyd and I work closely as a team, with Colin heading a number of specific projects. For example, he has oversight of the preparations for the Lockerbie trial and the working group on the European convention on human rights. Colin also takes a very active interest in operational matters and appears in court in respect of important and sensitive appeals.The strategic aim of my department must be to maintain the security and confidence of the community by providing a just and effective means by which crimes may be investigated and offenders brought to justice. For prosecutors to be effective, they must have quality and timeous reports from the police and other agencies. There also needs to be streamlined and effective organisation of the courts and effective working relations with prisons and those other partners in the criminal justice system for which Jim Wallace is responsible. Although a necessary constitutional independence must be preserved, the parts of the system must work towards common objectives. Jim Wallace and I have already begun to work closely, with our officials, on how the system as a whole can be enhanced and improved through both the individual and collective efforts of its various parts. As for that part of the criminal justice system for which I have responsibility, I wish to record that I have been proud over the past two years to head a department of dedicated, hard-working and committed staff. Prosecutors are rarely paraded in public for their successes. Much of the work of the service—such as attending murder scenes in the middle of the night, post mortems, being on call to the police, as well as the detailed and painstaking preparation of some complex and difficult cases—goes on quietly and efficiently. Prosecutors do not enjoy the spotlight or public recognition that our front-line services, such as police and customs, gain when major cases are successfully prosecuted. However, the work of the service is onerous. It proceeds under the most rigorous custody limits in the world and under conditions that require corroboration. The incorporation of the European convention on human rights also provides a challenging new area of law for the prosecution to consider and I am pleased to report that my department was the first United Kingdom Government department to train all its lawyers and investigators on convention rights. These many challenges that face the department, as well as the growing complexity of prosecution activity arising from developments in technology, forensic science and international crime, were recognised in the comprehensive spending review with a significant increase in the department's basic funding. With a major recruitment exercise earlier this year, it is hoped that the department will be equipped to face these important challenges over the next few years. Investment and innovation in staff training and development and the use and development of advanced IT systems are at the forefront of the department's activities. The award of Investor in People status in April 1998 recognises how seriously the department takes its obligations to its finest resource—its people.In conclusion, I hope that I have given some insight into the invaluable work carried out by the department in the prosecution of crime and the provision of legal advice. Every effort will be made to improve even further its performance; we all welcome scrutiny by this committee, which, I am sure, will contribute to that improvement. Colin Boyd and I will be pleased to take questions. To give as much information as possible, convener, we have, as I said, split up topics between us. Depending on the topic, one of us will answer."
    },
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  {
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    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 417388,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that the MacLean committee was set up as our response to the Reid judgment. I cannot recall the exact date of the judgment, but I do not think that there was much of a time-lag. It is important to make the point that the then Administration did not sit still: it set up a committee under the chairmanship of Lord MacLean. As the committee will readily appreciate, committees do not come into being overnight. The chairman must be appointed, terms of reference worked up, and members of the committee and a supporting secretariat worked up. The point that I would make is that the clear impression that I have had is that that was a direct response."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417390",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 417390,
      "EditedText": "I have a piece of paper in front of me which says that on 3 December 1998 the House of Lords handed down its judgment on R v the Secretary of State for Scotland. That was December 1998. You indicated that Lord MacLean's committee was set up in January 1999. I do not think that you can be too critical. I was an Opposition MP at the time, but even I would not have been too critical of that time-lag."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 417392,
      "EditedText": "Of that one month, I would not. The committee chaired by Bruce Millan is not solely a response to the Reid case. Many members of this committee will be aware that there have been growing concerns over many years about the state of our mental health legislation. We are dealing with an act that is now some 15 years old. There have been many developments in mental health over that time and it was deemed timely to set up a committee to take a much broader view of mental health legislation. It was not directly in response to Reid, but was the coming together of a number of matters of concern about mental health legislation."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C417393",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
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      "EditedText": "That leads me neatly into my question. You mentioned that this was an interim measure of the bill that we will be looking at later this week. When the various committees, including the MacLean committee, have reported, do you envisage that there will be a need for the Parliament to take a thorough look at the whole area and for more comprehensive legislation to be introduced?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
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      "EditedText": "Almost certainly. Given the wide remit of the Millan committee, and the important considerations of Lord MacLean's committee, it is almost inevitable that legislation will follow. As an Executive, we would want to ensure that that legislation proceeded, taking into account and consulting on the committees' recommendations."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417401",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
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      "EditedText": "Committee members have advised me that they wish to raise other issues; I appreciate that we have a restricted time in which to do that. I invite a member who has not spoken yet, Tricia Marwick, to ask a few questions in connection with the proposed Executive legislation."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
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      "EditedText": "There is a Law Commission bill in existence that makes things easier."
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  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417412",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 417412,
      "EditedText": "The relationship might face difficulties if every answer turns into a long ministerial statement."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417413",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 417413,
      "EditedText": "Without dwelling too much on Trisha's point and on what Mr Wallace will take away from the committee, I am concerned that the land tenure legislation is seen as removing the dangers represented by people such as Brian Hamilton, when in fact it does not. The raider of the lost titles relates to the title to land, the land register and leasehold casualties, so it falls between those areas. One message from the committee is whether it could be got across that a tiny piece of legislation would be required to abolish leasehold casualties. We do not want there to be any confusion about land tenure and Brian Hamilton."
    },
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  {
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
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      "EditedText": "I am aware of the cases and it is important to distinguish between them and those in which prisoners are transferred to Scotland from other places—in those circumstances, arrangements kick in.Members have written to me on the subject and I believe that the Home Office is considering the matter and that work is being done. The Scottish Executive is taking part in that discussion. The task is not straightforward. When people come to this country, we have no legal handle on them. I am sure that the committee can see the difficulty of the situation."
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    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 417434,
      "EditedText": "At a time of rising road deaths, surely there must be some explanation for why the driving that is causing those deaths is considered less careless. Despite the increasing number of road deaths, there is a distinct downward trend in prosecutions at the higher end of the scale. There must be an explanation of why those trends diverge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 417436,
      "EditedText": "I must press you on this issue. The figures, in the terms of your own explanation, suggest that driving is becoming less bad but that more people are dying. Is that the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 417438,
      "EditedText": "Would it therefore be the case that someone who is, say, a professional racing driver would be thought of as a competent driver, whereas someone who does not drive for a living would be seen as a less competent and less able driver and would therefore be more likely to have a serious charge laid against them?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 417439,
      "EditedText": "The fiscal would look at the relevant factors. If one were looking at a racing driver, depending on what he was doing in the context of the alleged offence, that might be—but would not necessarily be—a relevant factor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 417444,
      "EditedText": "I was not responsible for making the programme.In your statement, you commented on\"providing a just and effective means by which crimes may be investigated and offenders brought to justice\". In your preamble to that section you spoke about the apparent remoteness of your own officers and the fiscal service. They are the ones who actually make the decision about whether to prosecute. Unfortunately they do not have the opportunity to explain the reasons behind the decision. Without going into specific detail, would it not be more appropriate for there to be an interface with your department rather than with the police—the front-line troops? The public naturally identify the police as having helped with an investigation and then they have to turn round and say, \"I am sorry, but it is going nowhere.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 417448,
      "EditedText": "Is that not also a duty that is sometimes shared with people who work with Victim Support?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 417450,
      "EditedText": "And this tag team that the law ministers—Interruption. Will you fund it as well?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 417451,
      "EditedText": "I am not the Minister for Finance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 417453,
      "EditedText": "I think funding is something that we would want to look at as a different issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 417460,
      "EditedText": "It seems to me that that is a very ad hoc arrangement—it does not mean that every victim of crime has a right to basic information about how a case is being progressed. In the near future, will we see some sort of consultation that will result in, for example, a victims charter that states people's rights to information and to advice about the progress of cases? Information and advice should be available as a right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 417468,
      "EditedText": "My third point, Lord Hardie, concerns a major change of Scottish parliamentary legislation and the make-up of the Executive. Your inclusion as, effectively, a minister and your right to sit in the Cabinet and, effectively, to vote on Cabinet issues, as I understand it, must surely have an effect on your independence although you are charged with protecting the independence of the law."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 299.0,
      "ContributionID": 417470,
      "EditedText": "That is a point to take further in the future. The final point that I want to make is about drugs legislation and the confiscation of assets from convicted drug dealers. The question is for Mr Boyd.Does Mr Boyd agree that the courts are obliged to use the law to find in the way for which they believe members of Parliament have legislated? Members of Parliament are virtually unanimous in their hardline approach to the way in which the law regarding the confiscation of assets from drug dealers should be applied. Given recent findings, in which drug dealers seem to have got away with not murder, but something like that in financial terms, are there deficiencies in the present law?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Solicitor General for Scotland: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 301.0,
      "ContributionID": 417471,
      "EditedText": "The present legislation is covered by the Proceeds of Crime (Scotland) Act 1995, which extended the previous legislation, which dealt with drugs alone. Now we can pursue anyone who has committed a specified offence for the proceeds of their crime. The legislation requires that where an order is made, the amount that is caught is either the proceeds of crime or the accused's assets—whichever is the lower. In recent, high-profile cases, the difficulty has arisen that if the criminal spends as he goes, there is little to attach in the way of assets.That difficulty is not peculiar to Scotland or, indeed, to the UK. I understand that other jurisdictions, in particular the United States, have come across that phenomenon. We have been involved in a number of initiatives. The head of the fraud and special services unit—which deals with confiscation—recently attended a G8 international conference which examined how to attach people's assets. Often, when we talk about the major drugs players, we are talking about people who, if they are not spending, are salting assets abroad. We must ensure that we attach those assets."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 417482,
      "EditedText": "Nobody has to prove their innocence; we start with the presumption of innocence, which can be displaced only in a court after the relevant evidence has been tested. I hope that I and none of my predecessors as Lord Advocate will—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ContributionID": 417486,
      "EditedText": "We have not seen that role at Westminster because there is no Lord Advocate in the Commons. The last one was Ronald King Murray. If there were a Lord Advocate in the Commons, he or she would participate in debates as appropriate.I intend to be in the chamber whenever it is considered appropriate to be there and I also intend to participate in debates. I will speak to the emergency motion in Thursday's debate. I shall probably wind up the debate, but that is to be confirmed. The matter of amendments is slightly difficult. I would not expect that amendments in my name would be lodged very often. I would expect a minister for the department that is promoting the legislation to lodge amendments, but as a minister, if it were suggested that I should lodge an amendment or if, in exercise of my legal function, it were thought that an amendment should be lodged to cure what might be seen as a defect, I would do that. Having said that, I would hope that defects would be caught before the bill was introduced. Obviously, if amendments come in, they may affect the legality of the legislation if they are accepted, so we may have to tweak the legislation to ensure that it complies with the European convention on human rights or the Scotland Act 1998."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 417490,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the Lord Advocate would not want to say it, and heaven forbid that it should ever happen, but were you or I in the House of Lords we might see that the Lord Advocate was playing an active part there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 417491,
      "EditedText": "I can absolutely assure you that I will never be in the House of Lords.Are there any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 360.0,
      "ContributionID": 417500,
      "EditedText": "May I raise one issue that has not been mentioned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 417511,
      "EditedText": "Do members wish to speak on this specific issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 417515,
      "EditedText": "It will be for the bureau to handle the business. It must take into consideration the need for appropriate standing orders that allow committee-initiated legislation to come forward. The bureau cannot take the view that it has filled up the Parliament's time to the extent that—notwithstanding this wonderful new committee system that it has introduced—it will, because of time constraints, debar us from ever bringing anything forward. The only way that we will find out is to go ahead and present the bureau with something that it might find very difficult to refuse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 417516,
      "EditedText": "Do we have the drafting ability to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 417521,
      "EditedText": "The Executive is not here and—notwithstanding the Executive bills that we know are coming—we have an allocated slot next Wednesday. It is incumbent on us all to ensure that this committee meets next Wednesday morning and discusses matters beyond the Executive's agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 417524,
      "EditedText": "I want to go back to what we were talking about earlier because I am really very anxious to find out what we are doing. I totally agree that we do not want to be running on the agendas of others, but how do you see our time being divided up? We meet once a week, so do you envisage that we will look at the Executive bills that come to us every second week, or that we will concentrate on our business every second week? Do you have a plan?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 417527,
      "EditedText": "We hope to organise our business for more than a week ahead. I would be concerned if we got into the trap of working on a week-by-week basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C417528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 417528,
      "EditedText": "Surely it will be possible for us to plan in advance once we know what bills will be before us and the likely time scales. We might be told that we must finish consideration of the bills by the end of November, for example. That would give us eight weeks, which is a ridiculously short time. We would then have to say how many weeks we thought the process would take, which would dictate the timetable. Until we receive the bills, we are in no position to guesstimate what our business will be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
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      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 417529,
      "EditedText": "If it is helpful to the committee, the advice that I have so far is that we would be expected to take a couple of committee meetings to produce the stage one report for each bill, which means that the end of November may not be a ridiculously tight deadline. Everything depends on when the bills are referred to us. The bills will come back to us after the stage one debate in Parliament, which is when we will deal with them line by line and consider amendments. Line-by-line consideration of bills does not happen at stage one. When bills are first referred to us, we discuss them in principle, not in detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 430.0,
      "ContributionID": 417534,
      "EditedText": "I accept what Scott said, but I was trying to get an idea of what subjects were likely to come up in the few weeks ahead. Maybe that is just the way that my mind works and I am being unrealistic."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
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      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 434.0,
      "ContributionID": 417536,
      "EditedText": "Talking about prisons is not a problem for me because I am fascinated by the business. The subject of prisons is a big one for me, almost by definition. However, it is a huge subject. What aspects do you have in mind for a discussion on prisons? Maureen has something in mind. We are having a discussion with a view to bringing in legislation to close another loophole. We would like to draft a bill and get it through Parliament. On prisons, however, what would we be addressing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 417537,
      "EditedText": "Prisons are part of our remit in terms of scrutinising the Executive, Gordon. A report has been published that has serious things to say about the conditions in two or three of our prisons. It is incumbent on the committee to push the Executive as much as possible on the way that Scotland's prisons are being run and on the conditions in them. That is not necessarily about producing a piece of legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 417543,
      "EditedText": "That can be fitted in. If we start to find that we have real difficulties, I am prepared, as I have said, to take up the issue formally, because the broader question about the ability of committees to operate independently has to be taken on board. This committee will not be able to operate independently if it ends up drowned by someone else's agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 417545,
      "EditedText": "I want to interrupt you there as there is another issue that arises out of some of what was said by Gordon and, I believe, Kate: the issue of being able to give people notice.We have allocated time for a committee meeting next Wednesday morning and on the following Tuesday morning. Arguably, even two weeks' notice is quite short for some of the people that we have to invite. If, on Wednesday or Thursday, the Executive refers one or both of the bills to us, those time constraints will still apply, even for the organisations that we want to speak to about the bills. However, if we wait until then to invite people to fit the meeting time, we still have the same difficulties with the time scale. If the bills are referred to us at the end of this week or the beginning of next week and the invitations go out, it may be that people cannot come before the committee for another fortnight or so in any case. I do not want us to end up with empty slots in the meantime."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 417547,
      "EditedText": "This committee produces a report in which we can, if we wish, make recommendations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 417549,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 466.0,
      "ContributionID": 417552,
      "EditedText": "That is what we would do in that sort of situation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 472.0,
      "ContributionID": 417554,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that my suggestion was contradicting that. I was suggesting that we should allocate a slot next Wednesday for Scottish Women's Aid to put the case for legislation. It seems that we would have to go down that road anyway. That would leave time to move on to any legislation that we might have in front of us, and it would strike a balance. The following week, we could allocate the first half-hour or hour to the prison service in Scotland—let us not assume that everyone understands what the problem is. Then perhaps the case might be made to take that further, as you suggest. That leaves time, to anticipate Gordon's point, to play all these roles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 486.0,
      "ContributionID": 417561,
      "EditedText": "We must also try not to have it too bitty. In future, we will probably try to suspend the committee meeting about halfway through, because this room became intolerably hot and I think that a natural break might be one of the things that starts to build in.Are we agreed that next week we will pursue the issue that Maureen wishes to raise? The week after we will begin to look at prisons. It may be that those meetings run shorter than the allocated time. Alternatively, depending on Executive decisions made, it may be that the second half of the meetings will cover some of the legislation that we can expect to have before us. That, to a certain extent, will depend on whether witnesses—if that is appropriate—are able to come to the committee.I will make one or two small housekeeping points. I have asked everyone for a contact address or number—some people have given me umpteen. From the toing and froing that arose last week with Maureen, it suddenly became apparent that we needed a way of contacting each other. My intention is to collate the contacts. The list is not meant to lead to yet another person who, like a whip, drives you nuts with the pager, but will be used only where an issue arises that needs to be cleared quite quickly with the committee. Quite a few members have responded. I do not think that Gordon has responded yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 488.0,
      "ContributionID": 417562,
      "EditedText": "Do you want to use my phone number?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 490.0,
      "ContributionID": 417563,
      "EditedText": "Do you check your e-mail?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 498.0,
      "ContributionID": 417567,
      "EditedText": "That is a problem that you need to resolve.Maureen, you wanted to come in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 506.0,
      "ContributionID": 417571,
      "EditedText": "Those are Scottish Women's Aid, Family Mediation Scotland, and maybe other family law groups. If other members wish to raise specific things that are not Executive business, they should flag them up the minute they think about them so that we have the maximum opportunity to know what to get on to the agenda. I think that every couple of meetings or so we will try to have half an hour such as this to discuss the ongoing programme of committee business so that everybody understands where we are going. Is everyone happy?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 11180,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 417326,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:04"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 11180,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 417327,
      "EditedText": "I now open this meeting and welcome everybody to what, in most people's eyes, is the first meeting of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, although it is actually our second meeting.I have received apologies from Maureen Macmillan, who is not able to attend until later this afternoon. That is the only item of formal business before the substantive business of the day. I ask that the Minister for Justice and the Deputy Minister for Justice be invited to come before the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 417332,
      "EditedText": "So that was just a couple of weeks before the case was going to call in court?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 417333,
      "EditedText": "It was a couple of weeks before the judgment—the case had been heard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 417338,
      "EditedText": "As Christine Grahame pointed out, I was not there. Bearing that in mind, I am happy to respond as best I can. It is well known that appeals are made under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. The patient has the right to regular review and the right to make an application for such review. In many cases, applications are opposed or challenged—formerly by the Secretary of State for Scotland, now by the First Minister. In 1998, a case went to the House of Lords in which the Secretary of State's decision to resist an application for discharge was successful and a wide definition of treatability was given. It should be evident from the judgment that other evidence was presented to the sheriff which supported the Secretary of State in his opposition to Mr Ruddle's application. It was only when we received the terms of the sheriff's judgment on 2 August that it was possible to confirm that there is a loophole in the law and, more important, precisely what it is. The loophole clearly existed when the sheriff made his judgment in Lanark on 2 August. Within two days we had announced our intention to seek emergency legislation. We indicated—we did not shy away from them—the difficulties involved in this area of law, arising not least from the necessity to meet the requirements of the European convention on human rights. I said on 4 August that I hoped we would be in a position to introduce legislation when the Parliament returned after the summer recess. That is precisely what we are doing. I think that the convener will accept that, when I discussed the matter with her and Mr McLetchie on 4 August, she did not demur from such a time scale. The introduction of emergency legislation when Parliament returned was a target that we set, and it is a target that we have met after considerable hard work and effort."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 417355,
      "EditedText": "Minister, you have suggested that, on 4 August, you determined that you would go forth with emergency legislation. Is the bill prepared? Is it available to members of this committee today? It should be borne in mind that we are to debate this important issue on Thursday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 417357,
      "EditedText": "Thanks very much. I am pleased with that, although it does not give us a great deal of time to come to terms with the bill prior to the main debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 417358,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 417360,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to be pedantic, but I wish to clarify that an appeal was not open. It is important to mention that one of the provisions incorporated in the bill is that an appeal should be available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 417364,
      "EditedText": "I believe that that advice was sound, and that, even with the benefit of hindsight, there were no steps available that would have led to Mr Ruddle remaining in custody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 417370,
      "EditedText": "You express a difference of opinion. I told you that there were significant distinguishable features. You and Mr McLetchie would accept that I acted in good faith."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 417371,
      "EditedText": "Given the fact that you appear to have dealt with the Tonner situation nicely, do you think that it would be fair to bring the case to the attention of the Scottish Legal Aid Board to make sure that public finances are not wasted in useless appeals?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 417372,
      "EditedText": "It is improper—and illegal—for a minister to have any involvement with the Scottish Legal Aid Board on any appeal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C417373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 417373,
      "EditedText": "I think that my question has already been answered. I have already written to the minister about the Karl Tonner case and another case involving releases from Carstairs prison, about which Dundee City Council was concerned. The minister assured me that no progress would be made on those cases until the legislation had come into effect, which will be tomorrow. On behalf of the people of Dundee, I welcome the fact that the legislation has been brought forward as quickly as it has."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 417377,
      "EditedText": "Will there be any guidance in the legislation that would indicate the grounds, other than general public safety, on which it could be used?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 417380,
      "EditedText": "I cannot tell you the date on which the family found out; I suspect that they did not find out that Mr Ruddle was applying to be discharged, as opposed to finding out that he was being discharged. The honest answer is that I do not know, but I can find out and inform the committee. Similarly, I cannot give a figure for the continuing cost of Mr Ruddle's care package. It would be useful to put on record, however, the fact that, allowing for the possibility that Mr Ruddle might have been discharged, efforts were made to put a care package in place before that Monday. Indeed, that package was offered to him after his discharge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 417382,
      "EditedText": "I will certainly try to find out, but Christine Grahame asked me when the family knew about Mr Ruddle's application for discharge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 417389,
      "EditedText": "With respect, as far as I understand it, the Reid decision was in August 1997 or thereabouts. MacLean was not set up until January 1999, and the Millan committee was not set up until April 1999."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 417391,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that you would have been every bit as critical as everyone else has been of the handling of this over the years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 417399,
      "EditedText": "But your overriding concern will be for public safety?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 417402,
      "EditedText": "Over the past few years there has been great concern about the activities of people such as Brian Hamilton, the raider of the lost titles. I am sure that Mr Wallace will wish to confirm that the proposed bill on the abolition on feudal tenure will not cover the activities of Mr Hamilton."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 417406,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that the minister wants to take the opportunity to make continual mission statements, but I ask him to stick to the specific questions that are being asked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 417407,
      "EditedText": "I cannot give members a date for leasehold casualties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 417408,
      "EditedText": "It cannot have escaped the minister's attention that a great number of people in rural as well as urban Scotland are concerned and affected by the activities of people such as Brian Hamilton. Will the minister assure the committee that, within the term of office of this Administration, we will have legislation to tackle leasehold casualties?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 417410,
      "EditedText": "Will we have legislation in this term?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 417415,
      "EditedText": "The committee will deal with the matter of land tenure legislation in due course. The Law Commission is keen to keep clauses such as pre-emption clauses. We will want to look at other issues, such as a delay of two years before the legislation is enacted. The message is that it is a good piece of legislation and we welcome it, but in order to make it as popular as it is seen at the moment, we need to ensure that we are doing away with things such as pre-emption clauses. We could be a bit more imaginative and tag one or two things such as leasehold casualties on to the end of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 417418,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to try to do so. The initiative on that comes from the sheriff principal, Gordon Nicholson, who has the overall responsibility to secure the efficient disposal of business at the courts within his sheriffdom. He has issued a consultation paper, in which I understand that he makes it clear that he has an open mind on the position and on the proposals contained in the paper, and that he is inviting comment and consultation. I am sure that local MSPs as well as local practitioners will be to the fore in doing that. It will be a little time before any proposal is put to Scottish ministers, who would have the final responsibility for approving any court closure. Therefore, it would not be appropriate for me to comment at this stage, but I can assure the committee that there will be no court closures unless ministers have had an opportunity to consider the overall position, on which I have no doubt that we will hear representations. To clarify, it is a consultation paper put out by the sheriff principal, specifically dealing with the administration of business in his own area. It is for consultation, he said that he has an open mind, and ministers will be involved until firm proposals come from him."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 417422,
      "EditedText": "At times, the public has been concerned to hear that hardened criminals and killers have been returned to Scotland from Canada and Australia after having been released from jail on parole. There appears to be no way of monitoring them unless they volunteer to be monitored. Has the minister any plans to address this problem? If so, what are they?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 417427,
      "EditedText": "I would like to draw this section of the proceedings to a close. I thank the minister for coming and for answering the questions as courteously as he did. I offer a small apology to his deputy, Mr MacKay, who appears to have been ignored—although he might regard that as an enormous benefit and be happy to come back in future.We have Lord Hardie and Mr Boyd, the law officers, before us. Lord Hardie, could you begin by giving us a brief outline of your role and that of the Solicitor General, and tell us how your roles differ from that of the Minister for Justice and from each other? I perceive that there is a lack of understanding of the role of the Solicitor General and it would be appropriate for the Solicitor General to speak for himself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate (Lord Hardie): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 417428,
      "EditedText": "I have prepared a statement, which has been circulated, and I will seek to address the issues that you raise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C417429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 417429,
      "EditedText": "We do not have copies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 417432,
      "EditedText": "Lord Hardie, you spoke at some length about prosecution decision making. I think that it is fair to say that all members of this committee have been extensively lobbied, both by the Dekker family and by Tricia Donegan, about the emergence of apparent Crown Office policy whereby the number of charges brought under section 1 of the Road Traffic Act 1991, which deals with causing death by dangerous driving, has declined in comparison with the number of charges brought under the lesser offence of dangerous driving. That is despite the rising number of road death victims. We cannot discuss individual cases if they are still live, but I would welcome your comment on the issue in general, as it gives great cause for concern. Furthermore, is there internal monitoring in the Crown Office to establish whether trends are developing that you may wish had not emerged?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 417435,
      "EditedText": "With respect, convener, you are falling into the error that others fall into. The fact that someone dies does not make the driving anything greater than careless. The consequences of the act are irrelevant as far as the choice of the charge is concerned and indeed, according to the courts, as far as the penalty is concerned. Fiscals are applying the same approach to road traffic cases as they have for many years. Research is being carried out by the Transport Research Laboratory, a UK body that carries out research into offences in Scotland as well as in England. It is examining how offences for bad driving, to put it in a neutral way, are dealt with in England and in Scotland. Research staff from that body are based in Scotland for that purpose and two Scottish police forces—Lothian and Borders, and Tayside—are involved. There have been discussions between the researchers and the Crown Office and there will be further contact between the researchers and the procurator fiscal offices. That will enlighten us about the issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 417437,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I think that it is. A lot of deaths are caused by speeding, and speeding does not necessarily amount to dangerous driving. In some circumstances, speeding would amount to dangerous driving, but those are issues for the fiscal to look at and to decide in the light of the evidence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 417440,
      "EditedText": "The convener mentioned downgrading. What about the perception that cases—not just driving convictions—are being downgraded from one court to another so that the penalties may be less?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 417441,
      "EditedText": "There is no policy of downgrading offences from one court to another or from one charge to another. I am aware that Mrs McIntosh has a particular interest in this matter and that she appeared in a television programme, \"Frontline Scotland\", some time ago."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 417443,
      "EditedText": "That programme was inaccurate and wholly misleading. I challenged the accuracy of the appearance of an individual who wished to remain anonymous. I asked for his identification by the BBC because, as he had been dealt with, he could not be prosecuted. If people were generally concerned about downgrading I wanted to have access to the particular office in question. The BBC refused to produce that evidence. It may be of interest that there were disclosures that the previous week the programme \"Frontline Scotland\" had been suspect as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 417445,
      "EditedText": "The system of crime investigation involves the police, of necessity and quite properly, as the first line of inquiry. The police report to the fiscal who assesses the evidence and decides whether to take action. There is an interface between victims and the prosecution. I accept that much could be done to improve it and, as I said, we are working on procedures to improve the relationship between victims and not only the fiscal service but all the criminal justice agencies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417447",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 417447,
      "EditedText": "That is not the case in serious cases, when the fiscal or someone on his or her staff will precognosce the complainer and so will see them. When we are dealing with vulnerable witnesses such as children or people with learning difficulties, there is a procedure whereby the fiscal will take the witness to the court in advance to show him or her round the court and explain what will happen. That fiscal will take that case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 417449,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the co-operation of voluntary agencies such as Victim Support. They make an invaluable contribution and I would not dream of cutting Victim Support out in any arrangements for dealing more effectively with victims. I would welcome further involvement with it and with other agencies in ensuring that victims get a better deal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 417455,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I think my statement alluded to what we are doing about that. I recognise that the system is far from perfect. We try to give victims information about the crimes against them and about the progress of their cases. It must be borne in mind that some victims do not want that information. We must first identify whether the victim wants to be kept informed about what is happening in his or her case. If they do not want to know, informing them can be even more offensive and upsetting. We are trying to ensure that if they want to know they get the information. In my statement, I said that the IT system that is being developed is necessary to ensure that information is updated regularly and is readily available. That system will be an improvement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 417457,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 417458,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that the system in England and Wales is better than the one that we have in Scotland, but they at least have a victims charter, and the Director of Public Prosecutions has stated publicly that it is a matter of common courtesy that victims should receive information and explanations. That does not happen here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 417459,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that can be said in such sweeping terms. I accept that things are not perfect, but there are arrangements here to communicate with victims and to impart information to them. I am the first to acknowledge that we have fallen short in fulfilling the need to provide that information to victims in certain cases. I said in my statement that the IT would not replace personal contact—contact that already takes place. I would be doing a disservice to people in the procurator fiscal service if I did not acknowledge that many of them maintain contact with victims and tell them that they can telephone the office to find out about the progress of their case. Furthermore, for vulnerable witnesses, special arrangements are made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 417463,
      "EditedText": "First, I can assure you that I, Colin Boyd, and my officials take seriously any representations that we receive from the public, including from the Dekker family. We have received numerous letters and communications about that matter. I accept and fully agree that it is essential to have a consistency of approach throughout the prosecution service in Scotland. We endeavour to achieve that. It is important to be careful that people do not assume that there is inconsistency simply because a newspaper report of one case seems to be on all fours with their own case. Each case is decided on the available evidence and on the quality of the evidence, which is known only to the procurator fiscal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Solicitor General for Scotland (Colin Boyd): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 417467,
      "EditedText": "The incorporation of the European convention on human rights has consequences for the operation of the prosecution and, ultimately, for the police. The time limit to which Phil Gallie refers represents the police's power to detain a suspect for up to six hours and to question the person during that time under section 14 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995. Before the police question the suspect, they have to do a number of things. First, they have to caution the person. Secondly, they have to give an opportunity to contact a solicitor, or rather to intimate to the solicitor that the person is in detention. In the 1995 act, there is no right for a solicitor to be present. The question that Phil Gallie is asking is whether the European convention on human rights will require that a solicitor should be present. It is certainly the case that when a vulnerable accused, such as a juvenile or someone with a mental disability, is involved, the courts are likely to say that a solicitor ought to be present. Whether the courts will go as far as insisting that a solicitor must be present on all such occasions is open to doubt."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 417469,
      "EditedText": "No, it does not have any effect on my independence. There has been a lot of misunderstanding in the media. It may not come as a surprise to experienced politicians such as you, Mr Gallie, that the media sometimes get it wrong.For many years—as long as people can remember—the Lord Advocate has sat on Cabinet committees in the United Kingdom Government. In previous Administrations, my predecessors sat on such committees. Two of the committees on which they always sat were the Queen's speech committee and the legislation committee. Those are two of the most political committees in any Cabinet, where the policy of the Government is decided. No difficulty was ever perceived in their performing both their function on the committees and their function as Lord Advocate.The whole debate, among the public and in the media, is confused because it speaks about the separation of powers, but it is a fanciful separation of powers; if it were adopted, no minister would be permitted to sit in the legislature."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 417473,
      "EditedText": "I am certain that we have statistics for the first part of the question, but I do not think that we have statistics for the second part. Can I write to the committee with that information?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Lord Advocate: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 417479,
      "EditedText": "I hope that we never pat the public on the head and say that the matter is much too difficult for them to understand. There is a more fundamental justification than that for the refusal to give reasons and it concerns issues of people's liberty and their entitlement to a presumption of innocence until the contrary is proved in a court—not by a prosecutor or anyone else. If I were to disclose that a decision not to proceed with a prosecution in a case was due, for example, to the fact that there was insufficient evidence at the time, the effect would be to condemn a member of the public who had not had the opportunity of having my accusation tested in a court. That said, I will examine whether I can assist the public in certain limited cases. However, it is important to bear in mind that there are sound constitutional principles for not disclosing reasons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 417480,
      "EditedText": "Do any members wish to come in on that point before we take 10 minutes to bring in all of the witnesses?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 417481,
      "EditedText": "I will certainly come in on this point, because I can think of several cases where this policy has acted against the interests of individuals who have, perhaps, suffered a great loss to their family. I welcome the fact that the Lord Advocate has said that he will review the policy. I recognise the fundamental legal principle of proving innocence, but much interest will be directed at the victims of serious crime and their families and that should be incorporated into the equation that the Lord Advocate takes on board."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 417485,
      "EditedText": "We have 10 minutes to bring everyone in.It would be useful at this stage if you, Lord Advocate, but perhaps also the minister, would comment on your parliamentary role, for example with regard to referring bills. Could you outline in a sentence or two how proactive it is intended you should be. For example, you sit in the chamber and respond to oral questions when it is considered appropriate. Is it your intention to become involved in debates? If that is considered appropriate, do you intend to propose amendments in your name? May we explore your parliamentary role, because we have not seen that role at Westminster and this is a slightly different aspect for us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jim Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 417488,
      "EditedText": "No, Lord Hardie has given a good explanation of how he sees his role, and I concur. I am always wary about making comparisons with Westminster, but I recall that when law officers were in the House of Commons they would be summoned to appear before committees if particular issues arose. It is to the advantage of the Parliament as a whole that we have law officers who, although not elected to the Parliament, nevertheless are members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417494",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 417494,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it the position at Westminster is that the bill fell because it was defeated in the House of Lords. The UK Government has indicated that it wishes to bring the bill back to Westminster in the next session and that it will use the powers in the Parliament Acts to take the bill through Parliament and override the Lords' veto. To do that, the bill must be presented in the same form as it was originally presented—in other words, with the Scottish provisions in it.I think I am right in saying that the First Minister has already flagged up to the Scottish Parliament that it will have an opportunity to debate the principles of the bill, but that we want the Westminster Parliament to deal with the bill so that it can be passed through the UK Parliament. If the Scottish parts were to be excised from the bill it would have to start from scratch again in Westminster and would be subject again to the Lords' veto."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 350.0,
      "ContributionID": 417495,
      "EditedText": "So it will be subject to debate and a vote in the Scottish Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 417496,
      "EditedText": "There is a convention—if we have been around long enough to have them—that any Westminster legislation that relates to matters that are devolved must do so with the concurrence or consent of the Scottish Parliament. Mr Gallie may recall that we have already had debates on, I think, the food standards agency, and that Mr MacKay took three debates on some very interesting and esoteric subjects where there was some overlap between Westminster and the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C417497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 417497,
      "EditedText": "May I ask the minister, and perhaps also the Lord Advocate, where the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board sits within the devolution settlement? My understanding was that under the former constitutional arrangements appointments were partly referred to the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Lord Advocate and that some of the expenditure came out of the old Scottish Office home and health department's budget. More significant is the fact that the Secretary of State for Scotland received a full report on the activities of the board and the report was open to debate in Parliament. Are there provisions for the Scottish Parliament to examine what the CICB does and to review the 1990 scheme that I believe is currently operated by it? I have been unable to find that out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2077E174P347C417498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Mr Jim",
      "ID": 2077,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Orkney"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 417498,
      "EditedText": "Criminal injuries compensation is a devolved subject, but the CICB has been a cross-border body, not in the geographical sense, but in the sense that it has English and Welsh adjudicators appointed by the Home Secretary after consultation with Scottish ministers, and Scottish adjudicators appointed by Scottish ministers after consultation with the Home Secretary. I am advised that Scottish ministers will appoint five of the total panel strength, or more with the agreement of the Home Secretary.It may be that the Scottish Parliament will devise its own scheme, but it is perceived that there are advantages in having a Great Britain scheme. As a matter of policy, ministers have tended not to intervene in the handling of individual cases. As there is devolved responsibility, I am sure that if this committee wanted to examine more closely the issue of criminal injuries compensation it would be free to do so. If MSPs have complaints or questions about the working of the criminal injuries compensation arrangements they can address letters to me and I will ensure that we try to provide an answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 364.0,
      "ContributionID": 417502,
      "EditedText": "I know that the family law report is due, following the consultation that occurred prior to July 1. Was any consideration at all given to some modernisation of the law, for example with regard to giving some rights to same-sex couples or cohabitees? Will any mention been made of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 417508,
      "EditedText": "I hope that the committee will agree to discuss at an early date the introduction of a bill to amend the Matrimonial Homes (Family Protection) (Scotland) Act 1981. It could be the Parliament's first committee bill. It would be a small, if intricate, measure that should not prove to be contentious but it would be of enormous benefit to victims of domestic violence as it would extend the protection of interdict with powers of arrest to ex-spouses and former cohabitees. When the act was passed, it was meant to protect women by making it possible to have an interdict with powers of arrest against a violent husband who was harassing his wife. Those powers are tied up with rights of occupancy of the marital home—I can explain more about that if members wish, although they may wish to keep that issue for another time. The interdict remains following divorce, but the powers of arrest fall, leaving the woman vulnerable. In 1981, it was probably not thought that, once they had been divorced, husbands would continue to harass their wives. However, that has often proved to be the case. Where couples are cohabitees, there is no protection—or only limited protection—for the woman, unless both partners have occupancy rights to their home. Family patterns have changed greatly since 1981; many more couples are cohabitees rather than spouses. Many more women need protection from violent and abusive ex-spouses and ex-partners, which they cannot receive under the current legislation. I ask members to consider amending the act, as it would have a great effect on many women's lives, protecting them where they have no protection at present."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8487141+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 417514,
      "EditedText": "What space do we have in the timetable to introduce a bill? I have no problem with the subject matter, but I do not want to spend time discussing something if the practical reality is that we cannot draft a bill. We would no doubt get help, but we might never be able to legislate. Are there slots for committees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8643346+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 417531,
      "EditedText": "We will want to take some formal advice at the initial stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 417533,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that, but organisations will have to become more responsive to the needs of this Parliament's committee system. To be fair to most organisations in Scotland, that is not an issue with which they have had to deal until now. However, from now on they will have to deal with it, because no committee will be in a position to say to someone that they should set aside two days, say, in January, to appear before it. No committee will able to give that much notice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 417535,
      "EditedText": "We are having this discussion today because Justice and Home Affairs Committee meetings should be marked in everyone's diaries and we want to attempt to indicate what business we will cover as far in advance as possible.I will raise an issue that I would like to consider, which we will have to go into another week because of a lack of time. I want the committee to consider the report of Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons, particularly in light of the comments he made about Low Moss, Longriggend and Cornton Vale. His comments were serious and we would be failing in our duties if we did not consider this matter. The inspector is not available next week but he is the week after. Therefore, I ask the committee to agree to having domestic violence on the agenda for next week and having Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons come the week after. Other people might be invited to attend on those days, so that we do not hear only Scottish Women's Aid next week, or only the inspector the week after, but that is the way in which we hope to go on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 417539,
      "EditedText": "We might choose to produce our own report on the basis of the evidence that we are given. That is what I envisage. Such high-profile reports are the kind of thing that, from time to time, the Justice and Home Affairs Committee will have to produce if it is to do its job properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 417541,
      "EditedText": "It is important to remember that at each committee meeting we need not deal only with one subject. It is entirely possible to break and to move on to a second subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 417544,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Roseanna entirely. Everybody recognised that the committee structure of this Parliament would be unique. The consultative steering group certainly envisaged that the committees would have a powerful role in holding the Executive to account, in considering legislation and, more important, in initiating legislation. For the committees of the Parliament to work, all the elements must be in place. I concur absolutely with Roseanna. We cannot allow ourselves to be in a situation where we are swamped with legislation—whether from the Executive or from other committees—and do not have the opportunity to put forward legislation that we consider to be important to the criminal justice system in Scotland. As far as I am concerned, Roseanna should be making those points forcibly to the Parliamentary Bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 417548,
      "EditedText": "So, the committee produces a report that represents the majority view of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 462.0,
      "ContributionID": 417550,
      "EditedText": "We would produce a report, drafted by the committee, which would go to the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 468.0,
      "ContributionID": 417553,
      "EditedText": "Yes. I hate to use the W word, but at Westminster what happens is that there are two styles of committee. There are select committees, such as the Scottish Affairs Select Committee, which choose a subject—tourism in Scotland, for example, to name but one recent and highly controversial example. The committee went around, took evidence, came to a view and produced a report. The report went wherever reports go, but the committee's purpose was to produce the report, come to majority conclusions and make recommendations. That is what select committees do for a wide range of subjects, sometimes involving long and exotic junkets, which unfortunately in the main will be denied us on this committee. The other kind of committee is a standing committee, which is set up to scrutinise legislation line by line.The committees of this Parliament combine both functions, and that—you are right—is a problem in years when there is a heavy legislative work load. We combine both functions. If you like, when we are looking at the prisons report we are wearing the equivalent of the select committee hat, and when we are looking at the abolition of feudal tenure, we are wearing the equivalent of the standing committee hat. The combined effect of that is to make a committee which cannot be compared to either of the committees in Westminster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 474.0,
      "ContributionID": 417555,
      "EditedText": "That is what I said. A committee meeting does not have to have only one subject on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 478.0,
      "ContributionID": 417557,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is what I said. Describing it in terms of the Westminster committees does not completely describe what our committees are about. Our work involves both functions which, in Westminster, are dealt with by different kinds of committees. We do not have that here. We have one kind of committee, and it is us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 492.0,
      "ContributionID": 417564,
      "EditedText": "I do but not every day—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 496.0,
      "ContributionID": 417566,
      "EditedText": "It is because I have not yet collected my laptop."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 508.0,
      "ContributionID": 417572,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8799655+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 417379,
      "EditedText": "Treatment was available to Mr Ruddle, but he did not get it. I have two more questions about the case. First, when were the McConvilles, the victim's family, first informed that Mr Ruddle would be seeking a discharge? Secondly, what is the cost of monitoring Mr Ruddle now that he is out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.378191+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 417417,
      "EditedText": "On a completely different topic, the headline in the Berwickshire News and East Lothian Herald was the top story: \"Campaign to keep Duns court\". That may not be the most exciting headline in the world, but the issue is important in Duns, Peebles and Selkirk and other places where there are sheriff courts. I understand that there is a review of the sheriff court provisions—provisions on which Euan Robson has lodged questions. I would like to hear what that is about, because I believe that a consultation paper on sheriff court provision in East Lothian and the Borders has been put out. I want to know who has been consulted about it, and whether it is Scotland-wide and so on. Could Mr Wallace shed some light on that, please?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 417472,
      "EditedText": "I have been told that my two questions have to be short, which they are. My first question has two parts—sounds like a quiz—and concerns the monitoring of the alleged downgrading of charges. Are you monitoring both the percentage of cases in which the sheriff has had to remit to the High Court and the percentage of cases where the sheriff has commented on his unhappiness about the case being brought in the sheriff court and not as solemn proceedings in the higher court? The second aspect might be more difficult to monitor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:23.3938186+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 480.0,
      "ContributionID": 417558,
      "EditedText": "Because our business will all be taking place in public, the debate, as it should, will go out beyond these walls. That is another safeguard against a report gathering dust."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Future Business",
      "HeadingID": 11182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 374.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 504.0,
      "ContributionID": 417570,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with the groups that we are inviting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6285481+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 417341,
      "EditedText": "I re-phrase the question: what legal advice was taken?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 417345,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that when counsel was instructed a note would have been provided on the prospect of success or on the difficulties. What advice was given at that time, on the prospect of success?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 417347,
      "EditedText": "I will move on to something that overlaps with the issue of treatability and concerns the treatment of Mr Ruddle. It emerges from comments peppered throughout the sheriff's report that Mr Ruddle was not receiving treatments after 1992 and that Dr White, who was the medical officer responsible for him, tried to get treatment for personality disorder—as did the team that kept reviewing the case—but nothing was done. By the time an attempt was made to transfer him to Broadmoor for treatment, he had got wind of the fact that there was an opening for him to appeal—I take it that that was how it happened. By that stage, when the sheriff considered it, a referral to Broadmoor was out of the question. Throughout the case, there was a lack of treatment although the professionals apparently endeavoured to get it. That is really what led to his not being \"treated\" from 1994."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 2378
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Evidence",
      "HeadingID": 11181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11181,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 417351,
      "EditedText": "Do you accept that if personality disorder treatment had been made available to Ruddle either at Carstairs or at Broadmoor, he would not have been able to apply to the sheriff for appeal because he would then have been treated?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231783",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5973,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5973,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 231783,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:00"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231785",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 231785,
      "EditedText": "The first document before us is the special programme for the Highlands and Islands for 2000 to 2006. As you see, it is a consultative draft plan; the Rural Affairs Committee will also consider it and there will be a separate document on some of the issues in its remit. I know that there is interest from members of that committee and I welcome them here today. Stephen, are there any introductory remarks that you wish to make?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231786",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 231786,
      "EditedText": "I have been advised by the Scottish Executive that, as the paper is a draft plan, a more formal and complete consultation document will be coming to the committee at a later date. This document has been sent to us for our initial thoughts. The second, more formal document will be not a draft but the actual plan. I have been advised also by officials from the rural affairs department that the agriculture and fisheries components that should be in this document are, as the convener said, part of a separate consultation exercise. They are writing to you to explain what stage that is at."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231787",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 231787,
      "EditedText": "As, later in this meeting, we will be discussing the dates on which we need to meet to complete the regional map and so on, it is surely quite important to know when the Executive will have the final plan and not just the draft."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231788",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 231788,
      "EditedText": "It is not for me to comment but, in terms of scheduling business, it would help to know the end date. We are taking consultation on this document now, as we have to reply by 13 September. I am not yet aware of the final date for the more formal consultation, but it would help in scheduling business if I knew it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231796",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 231796,
      "EditedText": "This is a general point about the management of information. We should determine priorities, because if the committee has a view on the priorities we can indicate to the Executive a spending pattern rather than tell it exactly where to spend the money. I think that that was implicit in what Maureen was saying. If what Allan outlined is the numero uno objective—I am being European—I will go along with it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231790",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 231790,
      "EditedText": "I begin with some general remarks about the draft plan. I hope that everybody appreciates the size of the Highlands and Islands—it is as big as Belgium, something that is often said but really must be appreciated. It is not a homogeneous region—we need only think of the tremendous contrast between the Inverness and inner Moray firth area and the north and west of the region. The economic base is narrow and even in Easter Ross and in the Inverness area there are long-term unemployment and social problems more often associated with urban deprivation. The other areas, in the north and west, suffer from underemployment and depopulation caused by their remoteness; their economies are usually based on primary products with little value added and on unpredictable and cyclical industries such as oil rig fabrication and tourism. The Highlands and Islands have tremendous potential, however—perhaps more so than any other area in Europe. We have a storehouse of raw materials to which we need to add value; we have excellent engineering skills, particularly in Caithness; we have enormous tourism potential; and we are in the forefront of communications technology. We must invest in the next technological evolution. I am disappointed in this document because I do not think that it focuses on the next step. The special funding is much more than we would have had as the usual transitional funding following objective 1 funding, but we must analyse what was achieved in the objective 1 programme and build on it; the document does not do that sufficiently. We must prioritise, think strategically and justify our choices.As has been said, we must take account of other funds such as those in the rural development programme, which have not yet been announced. We need joined-up thinking. For example, development cannot happen without proper infrastructure. A new pier at Mallaig was built with objective 1 money but we still have a single-track road leading to it. How can we extract the timber crop that is due to come to maturity in the next 20 years if the bridges are on the point of collapse? We must give priority to infrastructure that will facilitate economic growth, including information and communications technology infrastructure. We must also give priority to the most fragile areas. This is the last chance of large-scale funding that could make a real and lasting difference. I suggest that it is used to establish a venture capital fund that could then sustain a rolling programme of development. We must get it right this time. We cannot fritter the money away or spread the jam too thinly; we must make the effects of funding permanent. We must make sure that what we do is properly monitored and I suggest that elected representatives, and not only officials, have an input into that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231794",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 231794,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point but there are clear omissions in the draft plan—most noticeably of a financial table—which mean that our consideration will have to be generally based. If the financial implications are not defined, the specifics are of little value in developing an understanding of the potential impact on the communities that we are talking about. My view is that we should concentrate on the second part of the strategic aim in the document. Of course our objective is to increase the prosperity of the Highlands and Islands generally through sustainable economic development, but the second part of the strategic aim—the reduction of social and economic disparities within the region, to which Maureen referred—is equally important. At this stage, we need to base our comments more generally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231797",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 231797,
      "EditedText": "There were at least three languages in that sentence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231798",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 231798,
      "EditedText": "Nae problem. That was Glaswegian."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231802",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 231802,
      "EditedText": "The reason I ask the question is that it follows on from Maureen's point about trying to see the whole picture, in terms of those areas that need an on-going appraisal of what has happened and those that need continuing funding to reap benefits. I agree with Margo's point about the need for a realistic time scale to view the whole picture and to examine the issue again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231804",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 231804,
      "EditedText": "The plan talks throughout about building on the good work of the previous programme. That is important, but we have not examined the previous plan, which may contain some omissions. We must ensure that there is a geographic and equitable distribution of funds with regard to the outlined priorities. That will be difficult to achieve without the financial perspective that we spoke about, but at some early stage we must gain an idea of the financial allocation to the priority subject areas and to the geographical areas. We must build on the work that has been done but also redress any imbalances in what happened."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231807",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 231807,
      "EditedText": "I will ask for a synopsis to be circulated to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231808",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 231808,
      "EditedText": "What will be the time scale for receiving the document on agriculture, fishing, aquaculture and forestry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 231809,
      "EditedText": "I am not aware of what the time scale will be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 231810,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that we cannot make any comment on agriculture and fishing with regard to the documentation that we have?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C231817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 231817,
      "EditedText": "The section of the document dealing with the impact of the previous programme states: \"In order to establish the final impact of the Programme, however, there will need to be a detailed formal evaluation undertaken.\"Is that evaluation in progress? It would give us an insight into whether the previous plan delivered what we would view as a success in meeting the targets that were set—they appear to have been met—but we must strip out a lot of other factors that may also have influenced the economic growth of the area, such as the growth of the economy as a whole.We heard about the problems facing various sectors. What impact did they have on objective 1 investment in the Highlands and Islands? To ensure that this time we spend the money correctly, a proper evaluation is crucial, so that we can be sure that the money that was invested last time delivered the significant benefits that seem to be shown in some of the document's tables. That information would allow us to make some kind of value judgment about the spending of objective 1 money in the Highlands and Islands in the past six years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 231818,
      "EditedText": "It is important to base whatever conclusions we reach on information that is as current as possible. The document contains much valuable information. Table 5 on page 14 alarmingly reveals the decline in certain sectors of employment in the Highlands and Islands. Employment is down 21.1 per cent in energy and water services and down 20.4 per cent in manufacturing. Employment in transport and communications is down by 16.8 per cent.Those figures are for the period 1991-96. I wonder whether the clerk or the Executive could be asked to give us more current statistics on employment trends and other subjects mentioned in the document. If we are to make a critical analysis or come to any conclusions and make recommendations based on the document, it would help if our information was more current than that which the European Commission and the Council of Ministers had at their disposal when this document was drawn up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 231824,
      "EditedText": "We can see from table 17 that nearly 9,000 people are employed in the social economy. Many of the employers will be in small communities and their relative impact on those small communities will be very significant. I share Cathy's view. How do we sustain the funding?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 231825,
      "EditedText": "The document contains some useful information on small businesses. Page 28 illustrates the area's dependence on small businesses and shows how many of those businesses are really small. Employers of one to 10 employees make up by far the greatest percentage.In my years in Europe, the issue of small employers fell into a kind of vacuum because the really small businesses—which are the lifeline of the Highlands and Islands—are not so common in Europe. The good funding schemes that were made in Europe were designed for employers of 100 and more. We managed to get that figure down to 50 employees and more but, in the Highlands, that would be quite a big business.I wonder whether we could focus on the need of really small businesses for access to the schemes that are available—the European Investment Bank had some attractive schemes. Such businesses could not access the schemes because of the cut-off lines. If those small companies had access to the sort of funding that is available to larger employers, even more businesses would be set up. It is in the nature of the Highlands and Islands to have many small businesses and many of them have traded very successfully—the impact of having 10 employees in an area of low population can be very significant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 231826,
      "EditedText": "That is an important point. I agree with what Cathy said about the voluntary sector—which we should call the third sector. It provides employment and tries to keep people in some of the areas that are losing their population. The demographics show—Maureen will know this better than I do—that some areas are struggling to retain a skills base that will give any hope for employment in manufacturing or in anything other than third sector employment.What Winnie says is important. Can we, through this committee, tweak the rules so that we reduce the number that must be employed by a business before it can tap into the investment fund?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 231829,
      "EditedText": "I agree with that point. I raised that general point at our previous meeting. One of the slight difficulties that there has been with the separation of Highlands and Islands Enterprise from Scottish Enterprise is that a lot of very good work under the previous programme has not always been promulgated to rural parts of Scotland that are within the Scottish Enterprise network. In considering the implementation of objective 2 funding for the other parts of Scotland, we have to build on the experience of the Highlands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 231837,
      "EditedText": "There are two slants on the matter. The first is this: has European funding been of assistance in developing and sustaining businesses in the Highlands and Islands? The second is this: could some of the businesses that went out of business have been helped to continue had European funding been available, taking into account the point that was made earlier?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 231844,
      "EditedText": "Certainly people can be asked to provide anecdotal evidence, but there should also be statistical evidence available, not only from the Scottish Executive but from other quarters. If the statistics show that fewer projects have been submitted in one area than in others, we will want to know why. By all means, let us take anecdotal evidence, but we also need hard evidence. We can ask the Scottish Executive to obtain that from Highlands and Islands Enterprise, local authorities and others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C231847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 231847,
      "EditedText": "I have been involved in this process before, because I was chairman of one of the working groups in Argyllshire that was involved in drawing up the bids for the first plan. The enterprise companies have a role, but so does the local council. It is about partnership—they have to get together to ensure that they identify the key priorities for their area. An important layer below that is the enterprise company working groups. They are local groups that represent the community, and they have an important role to play in identifying projects that they believe should be submitted. The voluntary sector is also important. Where I come from, many of the voluntary organisations have already put forward schemes, whether they are environmental programmes, or just good ideas for projects, which are feeding into the system. The way in which it is done is clearly identified: up through the enterprise network and the council working side by side. One of the big dangers is that if the enterprise company and the council do not work in partnership, two different sets of priorities are identified. There is nothing like a civil servant for exploiting two different sets of priorities—nobody gets anything. The onus is on us to ensure that we get partnership between the enterprise companies and the councils, and that the voluntary organisations come forward with some good ideas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 231852,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to be a nuisance, but there is something that I want to get straight. At the very least, there appeared to be acquiescence around the table to the notion that a strategic plan should begin from a geographical starting point, as George Lyon said. Consideration should be given to those areas that either have not taken maximum advantage of past opportunities, for whatever reason, or were losing population for other reasons. Is that where we are starting? That is not a sectional approach—it is a geographical approach. It is about the redistribution of resources, in the widest possible sense, inside the area, which is fine with me. However, is that what we have said?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 231857,
      "EditedText": "I have been looking at the various documents. One concerns additives, which is a very technical issue, and, without a lot more chemical knowledge, I could not say whether any of the document affects the area that I was elected for, or, indeed, the rest of Scotland. I see a warning light when I see spirit drinks, coming as I do from the Highlands and Islands, and—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 231860,
      "EditedText": "I want to bring the clerk in, as he can answer your query."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 231863,
      "EditedText": "We are lucky, in that Westminster is in recess. The Commons committee is not meeting during the recess; therefore, we have received no timetable information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 231864,
      "EditedText": "Can we go through the document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 231868,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that is my understanding, but because of the holiday period at Westminster it is difficult to confirm that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 231881,
      "EditedText": "We have been told that the explanatory memorandum will be available in a few days' time and, therefore, that the Rural Affairs Committee will be able to consider it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231882",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 231882,
      "EditedText": "I want the minutes to record that I raised my concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 231886,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to have to pursue this and I am not an expert on fisheries, as everyone will have guessed, but I think of the proposal as structural. On page 3 of the sift/scrutiny recommendation note, we read:\"Ensuring that European trade organisations are freely accessible: The Commission must ensure that it recognises only European organisations whose membership is open to all suitable national organisations.\"Does that include the Shetland fishermen, or are only British organisations included? Previously, all fishing organisations had access to the European Commission. Is it in our best interests for them not to have direct access, but to be filtered through the British organisation, given that there are great differences between, for example, the Shetland fishing industry and the Cornish fishing industry?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 231891,
      "EditedText": "On page 3 of the sift document, we recommend no further action on dispute settlements that are related to the law of Ukraine.On page 4, we recommend no further action on the issue relating to Slovenia."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 233.0,
      "ContributionID": 231896,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231905",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 251.0,
      "ContributionID": 231905,
      "EditedText": "It seems to be lots of nice words and no practical solutions to anything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231914",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 269.0,
      "ContributionID": 231914,
      "EditedText": "We have covered page 9 of the sift/scrutiny recommendation note. Page 10 deals with \"common organisation of the markets in processed fruit and vegetable products\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231921",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 231921,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is enough information to gauge whether that paper is of relevance. I am not being critical—I am aware of the volume of work involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231922",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 231922,
      "EditedText": "Was that the point that Winnie made at the previous meeting, when she was talking about the point at which we get involved?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231928",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 297.0,
      "ContributionID": 231928,
      "EditedText": "Correct me if I am wrong, convener, but I think that you have circulated the papers on those points for which some form of action is recommended and not circulated those for which none is recommended. If there was a time lag between our receiving the recommendation note—which could be circulated generally—and the meeting, we could sift it and advise you if we wanted further information on a particular item in advance of the next meeting, such as a copy of the documentation pertaining to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 307.0,
      "ContributionID": 231932,
      "EditedText": "Would it be helpful to have someone lead a discussion on that, or would you rather have the information in a document?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 231935,
      "EditedText": "I mentioned previously the INTERREG programme. Will the briefing on that programme be available for the next meeting? I appreciate the clerks' work load, but it would be helpful to have that information, given the timetabling of the programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231936",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5976,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 231936,
      "EditedText": "The briefing is currently on my computer screen upstairs, and if I were not working here I would be working on that. I will endeavour to get the briefing to the committee before the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 231939,
      "EditedText": "Who are these Westminster colleagues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 336.0,
      "ContributionID": 231946,
      "EditedText": "On resuming—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 231949,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much for that short but comprehensive introduction. Some of the issues that you touched on have been discussed at this meeting and at previous meetings. For example, although we have not discussed objective 2 status, we have discussed the Highlands and Islands, and there was a strong current of opinion that assistance should be targeted on need.You mentioned the future of programme monitoring committees, and you also talked about the way in which things worked previously. David Mundell spoke about learning from some of the difficulties of earlier programmes. Although we might not have the opportunity to go into that subject in much detail today, that is a topic about which the committee will want to come back to you. There is a strong view that we must learn from earlier inadequacies and problems to try to improve matters for the future.I was interested to hear you talking not only about Scotland having done well, but about Scotland's development. The document that Scotland Europa produced at the beginning of the debate on the change to structural funds, entitled, I believe, \"Transition to Prosperity\", stated the strong view that partners in Scotland Europa recognise the value and worth of European funding. We recognise the improvements that have been made and we in Scotland took the mature and responsible view that we could not continue to argue for more of the same. To do that would be to recognise that we had failed. The precipitous withdrawal of funding from areas that were managing the transition process could hinder the very process that was under consideration. Therefore, although we recognise that at some point we could not continue to justify some of the funding that was awarded because of our deprivation and poverty, nevertheless we would lose the benefit of some of that investment if assistance were withdrawn from certain areas too quickly. We are concerned that the areas of Scotland that are most in need continue to receive assistance as they struggle to come through a very difficult period.That is enough from me. Starting with Allan Wilson, let us go round the table and ask the minister questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 231954,
      "EditedText": "I might come back to that at the end of this process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 231959,
      "EditedText": "The last meeting of this committee coincided with the announcement of the loss of jobs at Newbridge. We discovered that, in that situation, folk could fall between the two stools of the old and the new programme. I was therefore interested to hear your remarks about your own time scale for your announcement of starting dates for the new programme and the tailing-off in funding for people who might have been able to use that funding under the old programme. That was certainly the case in respect of retraining at Newbridge. Can you give me an assurance that if there is still money in that pot, it will be accessible under the old system? You are talking about making a firm announcement in two or three weeks' time. The matter is so urgent that we would also want firm notice of whether the old moneys could be accessed to tail off the programme, as no start date is yet available for the new programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 231964,
      "EditedText": "The confusion between what were reportedly the views of ministers at the Department of Trade and Industry and the clear view that was expressed by the Secretary of State for Scotland at the Scottish Affairs Committee in the House of Commons is a good example of why it is not always helpful for me or anybody else to speculate about what might be happening between different departments. That is particularly true when the departments are in Whitehall. It is clear that both the Scottish Executive and the Scotland Office ministers support a ward-based approach. Whether that approach results in the overall Scottish population coverage being up or down by the odd 10,000 of population is not the issue. What is important is whether the result is that the neediest parts of Scotland are targeted effectively or that population coverage is wasted on areas that would never receive grant aid because of their relative economic prosperity. The announcement of the assisted areas map showed that, although there was a reduction in the overall coverage, the areas that were covered by the new map were the ones that had received grants through assisted areas map status. The Scotland Office ministers and the Scottish Executive have been keen to ensure that we target as much as possible the areas that deserve and need that approach most, in as many parts of Scotland as possible. We are continuing to press for that approach behind the scenes and publicly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 382.0,
      "ContributionID": 231968,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but it is important that we recognise, on the fisheries side, for example, that there is a difference between the two maps. They cannot be identical, but we and the European Commission want them to be as close as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 384.0,
      "ContributionID": 231969,
      "EditedText": "At the end of the round of questions we return to the first question, which was about funding. I want to explore further your comment that, even if areas are excluded from the objective 2 map, there should be the financial flexibility to assist some of those areas. That is an important point for us, and is a shift in thinking that must be teased out further."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 390.0,
      "ContributionID": 231972,
      "EditedText": "You have no view on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 392.0,
      "ContributionID": 231973,
      "EditedText": "No, it is entirely a matter for Dr Reid and for the committee. The relationships between the Executive and Dr Reid's and Mr Wilson's offices are strong in terms of communication and joint action on the matter. At the same time, it is entirely a matter for this committee as to whether it wants to invite Dr Reid and entirely a matter for him and for you as to whether and when he appears."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 231975,
      "EditedText": "Before the minister answers—and it is entirely up to him whether he does—I would like to point out that we agreed to discuss objective 2. The area that you are touching on is much wider than objective 2 and is not what we are here to debate. I will leave it to the minister, but I would like the discussion to focus on objective 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 231976,
      "EditedText": "I have great faith in the people of Scotland not to elect representatives to this Parliament who would do that sort of thing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 231983,
      "EditedText": "That is helpful in terms of a commitment to looking at the indicators as well as developments. I welcome the opportunity to hear more about the actual map. I wonder if in the longer term there are any plans to look at integrating the various strands of funding to avoid the sort of confusion that arises at present but also in terms of equity and making sure that everybody gets a fair deal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
      "ContributionID": 231985,
      "EditedText": "I will open the discussion up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 231987,
      "EditedText": "I would like to stress one or two points, as I understand that the committee is due to finish about now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 425.0,
      "ContributionID": 231989,
      "EditedText": "Am I all right?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 433.0,
      "ContributionID": 231993,
      "EditedText": "I do not like using the phrase \"best of both worlds\" in relation to devolution, although others have used it in the past. I think that Scotland will get two benefits from the final decisions that are about to be made on European structural funds.First, despite an overall reduction in population coverage, and, in the longer term, in funding for programme approvals, we will still receive a higher level of population coverage than colleagues in England will. I do not like making those comparisons, but others make them so I respond. We will also receive a far higher level of population coverage than any other country in Europe, with the exception of the four countries that have been identified as those requiring specific assistance: Ireland, Spain, Portugal and Greece.Scotland comes out well in the European funding settlement and, as a result of the devolution funding settlement, we have the opportunity and the flexibility to use any moneys that are freed up from that process for purposes that we determine. Scotland will not lose out financially from those decisions. We will be able to maintain our high level of activity on European structural funds. We will have some flexibility to use the other moneys that are available. The Parliament and the Executive could decide to target those moneys that are released either in the same areas as those that are covered by the map, or in the areas that have been removed from the map, or in another programme or department altogether. That is a decision for the Executive to recommend to the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 435.0,
      "ContributionID": 231994,
      "EditedText": "To clarify, irrespective of any decisions already made by the Commission or the UK Government, the same amount of money will still be spent in Scotland. In the element that is not European-funded, the Parliament, in discussion with the Scottish Executive, will be able to establish and determine our own priorities. In other words, there will be no financial loss to Scotland but, for at least part of that expenditure, there will be greater influence for the Parliament in determining how the money is spent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 441.0,
      "ContributionID": 231997,
      "EditedText": "The answer that I am about to give Mr Canavan will not surprise him, but I would like to justify it. It is not possible to release those documents. Although that may largely be as a result of convention and the need for us to build a relationship of trust between the new Executive, Whitehall departments and UK ministers, we have to recognise that the UK Government, once its proposals for the map are agreed, has to take its proposals to the European Commission. It is important that it goes on behalf of the whole UK, including Scotland, to get the best deal for us all. That case may be damaged by internal positions, statements of pros and cons, or different options that have been debated in advance. I understand the need for that position and I am not able to release the documents.However, it is important that we find a way of building a strong relationship between the ministerial positions in the new Parliament and the parliamentary committees. First, I repeat my clear, firm assurance that I will, as far as I can, keep the convener informed at all times of developments in this area. Furthermore, I have no difficulty whatever in making the same efforts to keep the Opposition spokespersons on the issues informed. I am happy to do that. There will be limits to what can be discussed at different stages, but I am happy to make my best efforts to build a relationship and to ensure that members have as much knowledge as possible and can, where possible, influence what we are doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 449.0,
      "ContributionID": 232001,
      "EditedText": "As ever."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 451.0,
      "ContributionID": 232002,
      "EditedText": "I want to ask, on behalf of my colleague Winnie Ewing, how much money we are talking about. No one has mentioned any figures, Jack, and you may be able to explain to me the disparity between two figures. Sometimes we read that the total amount of the funds available under the proposed settlement is £300 million, while the next figure that is mentioned is £200 million. I wish that Winnie were here, because she seemed to think that someone, somewhere, had lost the small change.How long is the long term, Mr McConnell? You said that although we were getting a lot of money—exactly the same amount as we received under the old disbursement of grants—fewer projects would be approved in the longer term. Does that mean in two and a half to three years?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 455.0,
      "ContributionID": 232004,
      "EditedText": "But it will be reduced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 461.0,
      "ContributionID": 232007,
      "EditedText": "It is up to us to determine how we spend the Scottish budget. Within that budget, there is a sum based on the historical position for European structural funds—that provision remains. The provision is not an identified amount within the overall Scottish budget. For example, if the amount of money that we can allocate on European structural funds in Scotland for the next seven years were to be reduced, in theory, by £10 million a year, that would not mean that £70 million came out of the Scottish budget that we got from the Treasury. The £70 million would still be in the Scottish budget; we would just have more freedom on how we spent it. That is what I mean about our having the best of both worlds."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232013",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 475.0,
      "ContributionID": 232013,
      "EditedText": "Neither guarantees more coverage. Ultimately, coverage will be based on a comparison with similar areas elsewhere in the UK. The point that I was hoping to make was that the more the geographical scale is broken down, the better the targeting of resources. I would rather have £1.5 million across Scotland, clearly targeted on the areas that need it most, than £2.5 million spread across Scotland with much of the coverage wasted. Neither of the two options exists, so I can give them as an example. My view and—as I understand it—that of Dr Reid and Mr Wilson is that the coverage should be targeted as much as possible and broken down into groups of wards in as many areas as possible. That is not always straightforward. Three local authority areas in Scotland qualify automatically as a whole under the European Commission criteria; one option that may exist in discussion with the Commission would be to break down the areas of those local authorities. We need to examine that possibility and do what we can. Our objective is clear: we want to secure the maximum funding, use the flexibility to best effect and ensure that existing funding is targeted on the communities that need it most. Having got that agreed by October, I want to ensure that the way in which the programmes are administered is as efficient and effective as possible so as to get the maximum benefit for Scotland over the next seven years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232014",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 477.0,
      "ContributionID": 232014,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, minister. Given some of the issues that you raised and that came up in discussion, we would welcome your attendance at a future meeting.The next meeting is on 14 September at 2 o'clock."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C232015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 479.0,
      "ContributionID": 232015,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:35."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1185101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231789",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 231789,
      "EditedText": "We should write to the Executive.I have been asked by Maureen Macmillan if I will take an intervention because she is leaving to go to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231791",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 231791,
      "EditedText": "How are we going to approach this matter—bit by bit, subject by subject, or by that kind of general statement?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231793",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 231793,
      "EditedText": "It think that would be useful because there are points in every section as well as general issues. It would be easier to discuss things if we knew where we were."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231795",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 231795,
      "EditedText": "This is our first discussion; we will, at a later date, consider some of the detail that, as has been said, has been omitted from this document. As Margo indicated, we need to know our timetable. I propose that we take general points from members at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231801",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 231801,
      "EditedText": "It is my understanding that we will receive a document from the Executive containing the agriculture, fish and financial material that Mr Wilson mentioned. If that document follows the same process as the document that is before us, which I expect it shall, either Mr Henry or I will receive the document to circulate to all committee members and to copy to other subject committees—such as the Rural Affairs Committee or the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee—for their considered opinion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5974,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 231811,
      "EditedText": "I understand that separate material will arrive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 231812,
      "EditedText": "We currently have a crisis in agriculture, a crisis in fishing, a crisis in aquaculture and a crisis in forestry relating to the amount of mature timber. The Highlands also faces a general crisis above all the others in transport and the cost of fuel. If we do not get that right, frankly, these are just nice words under various headings. The problems with transport and fuel affect infrastructure, entrepreneurs and tourism, which is also facing a crisis. Transport problems should be a priority. The Mallaig road has been mentioned; Mallaig is a place of thriving new industry but the road is as bad as ever. It is not the only road of its kind but what is sad is that it serves a lot of growing businesses. Those are the crises that we will have to deal with. These are nice documents with nice graphs but we seem to be no nearer to solving the problems.At the previous meeting, I asked one of the officials a question to which I did not receive an answer. I may ask it when Mr McConnell comes, although I may have to go before that. My first question is what sum the Highlands and Islands is getting—it has been described as £210 million and £300 million. Secondly, how much extra money was secured as transitional aid? I would have thought that that was a simple question, but I have never been able to get an answer to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 231814,
      "EditedText": "He is coming at 3.30 pm?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 231815,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the discussion will not venture into the allocation of funds for the Highlands and Islands because that is a separate matter. The Rural Affairs Committee is well placed to examine some of your other points about the specific problems facing different sectors of industry. Its role is to take the lead on those matters. We have been asked to make general comments on the consultative draft plan. When we have received more details and the sections that have not been included, we can examine the overall analysis of the plan, but it would not be proper for us to stray into some of the areas that the Rural Affairs Committee will be examining—that would be duplication."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 231820,
      "EditedText": "I want to go back to the point that Dr Ewing and Maureen raised. Chapter 8 of the document is important; it indicates the priorities of the Executive and where it is looking to channel its money. There is scope for rebuilding infrastructure and, although there is no mention of measures on high fuel prices, the document talks about assistance for improving roads with European regional development funding.The document—particularly on issues such as competitiveness and the funding of enterprise—does not mention the length of time for which funding would be available. I am keen to see more mention of whether money is for core funding. One often finds that many small groups in the Highlands and Islands and in Aberdeenshire are desperate for core funding over a period of time. Tourist boards are crying out for more than just an annual budget. That is not mentioned. The document states that they will get money, but does not state whether the establishment of long-term planning is a priority.On Dennis's point, I am also worried about the assisted areas map. It is drawn up according to information on council wards from 1991. I know that that is the last available census information, but I am concerned that, in going into such detail on council wards for assisted areas, we are dealing with information that is eight years old."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 231821,
      "EditedText": "Your point about the need for core funding over a period of time is slightly different from Maureen's, but we may have to make some decisions about where the emphasis should be placed. If we have limited funds, do we put the money into core grant funding or do we start to look at venture capital as Maureen has suggested? I do not know how much flexibility there would be to do both and I do not know whether we should try today to form a view on the idea of venture capital or wait for more information. I understand that you are saying that, beyond the six-year or seven-year period, money would continue to be circulated to get some longer-term benefit. We should, as a committee, form a view on that; I do not want to lose sight of that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 231822,
      "EditedText": "My point is supplementary to what Dennis said about the table on page 14. Irrespective of the currency of particular figures—although that is important—the preceding paragraph refers to the importance of construction and transport in the economy of the area. However, the sectoral overview of the current position of the main economic sectors in the Highlands and Islands makes no reference to transport or construction. That seems to be an omission; we should ask the Rural Affairs Committee to look at that. I want a sectoral overview of transport and construction to be incorporated into the final report. It is also important to incorporate sectors such as retailing and perhaps self-employment into the final report and I would like reference to that to be made to the Rural Affairs Committee or to the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 231823,
      "EditedText": "I just wanted to make a couple of points about references in the document to the social economy. The voluntary sector and the wider social economy are clearly identified as having particular value in terms of community development and so on.Ben and Maureen have said that if the social economy is—as the document outlines—a key component of the overall economy, it is important that funding for the voluntary sector and community businesses and organisations is not short term. I want more information about how that funding will be sustained. The document mentions that it should be sustained over a period of time, but—this links into Maureen's point—I would like more commitment to establishing how that might be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C231828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 231828,
      "EditedText": "The Rural Affairs Committee has not yet considered this document, although it asked Rhoda and me to attend this meeting. The Rural Affairs Committee has a broad rural development remit. It is interesting for us to see what there is in this document that may be applicable to other rural areas of Scotland. I know that there are members on this committee who will take the same view. One of the useful things in this document is the stress that it put on the distinction in the Highlands and Islands between those areas that are doing reasonably well in Scottish terms and those that are on the edge and need extra assistance. This document contains good background information, and very good evidence of the difficulties facing particular rural areas that are still suffering large-scale depopulation and so on. I am not so sure that the document contains the strategic pointers that we require to address those difficulties. This committee should do anything it can to encourage more attention to the strategy for the more remote and less populous areas that is needed to correct that imbalance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 231832,
      "EditedText": "Returning to what Cathy and Winnie were talking about, we need to know the size of the enterprises and whether they are self-employed or in the third sector if we are to direct funds and prioritise. I was not involved in a knocking exercise, Hugh, I was just trying to find out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 231833,
      "EditedText": "No, but the message according to these statistics could be that the Highlands and Islands has been more successful than the rest of Scotland in creating and developing new businesses. We must find out what has been going on. The key for the European Committee is to find out what influence European funding had on that process, what influence such funding had on assisting the creation of new businesses, and how—by shifting in the way that Winnie is suggesting, and targeting smaller businesses—it could have helped some of those businesses to stay in existence which otherwise would have gone out of business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 231834,
      "EditedText": "That should be set against the bigger background of the changing population pattern. I suspect that, if we examined it more closely, we would find that where there have been closures people have moved from rural areas to areas adjacent to towns. I do not know the answers, Maureen, I am just trying to make sense of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 231836,
      "EditedText": "I think that is generally because of the type of activity in those areas. In other areas the economy is fairly static."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C231838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 231838,
      "EditedText": "I would like to elaborate on Margo's question. I live in an island community, and I know that many island communities—certainly in Argyllshire and further north—are dominated by small one-man businesses. That is just the nature of the beast. One of the challenges in trying to develop projects in areas such as that in which I live—if any project is going ahead—is to find a firm big enough to take those projects on. That is one of the barriers that sometimes prevent firms from benefiting from some of the infrastructure projects that go ahead: there are no firms with big enough critical mass to take on that type of project on their own. In Bute and Argyllshire that type of problem has been experienced quite often. Mainland firms come to those areas to take on the bigger projects. That is an issue that concerns the use of the investment money and how it benefits the local community.In terms of start-up rates and failures, a lot of businesses stay for a year or 18 months, then suddenly go. Those tend to be one-man businesses that do all the small jobs that are required around the community. During my lifetime that has been the situation in many of the island communities. They tend to be dominated by small businesses that are out to earn only enough money for their own livelihood; there are very few big businesses that can take on construction projects of the type that sometimes come as a result of grant moneys and infrastructure projects.There is a considerable difference between the gross domestic product of some less well-off areas in the Highlands and Islands and that of places such as Inverness. This time, funding needs to be targeted geographically. I come from an area where the GDP per head stands at 70 per cent of the Scottish average. We are the second poorest area in Scotland; only Skye and Lochalsh has a lower GDP per head. There is a feeling that the Inverness area benefited substantially from the previous investment programme. Depopulation is an issue in areas out on the edge, such as the one in which I live, because of the lack of economic activity there. Geographical targeting should underpin the setting of priorities; we should start with the areas that need help most and set up strategies for them. That is how the plan should be delivered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 231839,
      "EditedText": "Is that a general view?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 231842,
      "EditedText": "That touches on a point that David made about a different area and a different programme. The remit of this committee is not to analyse the economy of the Highlands and Islands—that is for another committee—but to consider how European funding and assistance can help that economy. We have to ensure that we concentrate on that. Dr Ewing's point is very pertinent—there is no point in people getting funding if they are not able to take advantage of it. If we are concerned that people are not being assisted to submit projects, we should comment on that. We need to ask whether that is the case and, if so, why. We must also identify the people who can move things forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 231845,
      "EditedText": "That ties into the bigger picture to which David and I alluded. In Aberdeenshire, there is very often a feeling about the enterprise companies and the need for feedback from them and scrutiny of what they have been doing. We would see that as a system set up by another part of the Executive to scrutinise the value for money of the enterprise companies and to see how they would work for the Highlands and Islands. It is perhaps not our position as the European committee to back the enterprise scheme, but I would have thought that our role is to prioritise that money and to look at the way in which the schemes are funded—by venture capital, for example."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 231848,
      "EditedText": "That is how we would expect the process to work. Questions were asked earlier on—is it working, are people getting the help that they need, and if not, what should be happening—and I think that we can legitimately explore that. If there is a gap, not just in the plan, but in the process—and this goes back to something that David Mundell mentioned at a previous meeting—then we should be commenting on that process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 231849,
      "EditedText": "I agree. It is very important that local authorities and local enterprise companies work together to promote the strategic objectives of the plan. Even where they are working together, however, there are still areas where the level of preparedness of different communities varies within the local authority area. Our role should be to encourage those communities with the lowest level of preparedness to make themselves available so that they can take advantage of the strategic aim of redistributing money within the overall area of the Highlands and Islands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 231851,
      "EditedText": "What I propose to do—bearing in mind that there is a time problem and that we are unsure of the timetable—is produce a holding document that reflects some of the views that have been expressed. There is a general degree of consensus. We may wish to revisit issues such as whether we should set up a venture capital fund or how we approach core funding, as those issues are worthy of further comment, and at least we have flagged them up. The document should be circulated to the committee and considered further at the next meeting, if the committee agrees. It can be submitted as a holding statement to the Scottish Executive, in advance of detailed consideration of the matter, so that the Executive is aware of the tenor of our discussion today. In the meantime, we should try to carry out some of the more detailed work that members have commented upon today. If members agree, I will speak to the clerk and try to submit a statement over the next week or so, which members can consider in more detail at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 231855,
      "EditedText": "If there is nothing else, I will draw this item to a close. I thank the members of other committees who have come to the meeting. Their contributions have been valuable and will be reflected in the document that we will produce."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 231856,
      "EditedText": "We will move on to scrutiny of European documentation. Before I go through the sift/scrutiny recommendation note page by page, do members have general comments to make on the way in which the document is presented or on how we are handling the process?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 231858,
      "EditedText": "When did that happen, Winnie?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 231862,
      "EditedText": "I wish to raise a point for clarification. When we first discussed the sift/scrutiny process, I was under the impression that we would be working to very tight deadlines and time scales. None of the documents has a timetable attached to it. Did we just get lucky this time? Why do we have no information about when we must take decisions on some of those issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 231865,
      "EditedText": "I would like some clarification. I thought that we would produce the Scottish explanatory memorandums and send them to the Westminster committee before it produced the explanatory memorandum. In other words, I thought that the Westminster committee would not send up the EM with the documents because the EM would be the final submission to the Westminster committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 231872,
      "EditedText": "Which one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 231877,
      "EditedText": "We are recommending that the lead responsibility for that type of consideration should rest with the Rural Affairs Committee. Once that committee has reached a conclusion, it would refer back to us. We can then make further comment, if we feel that something has been missed. In the first instance, we are suggesting that the Rural Affairs Committee should examine it from some of the perspectives that you mentioned, Dr Ewing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231879",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 231879,
      "EditedText": "It is for the Rural Affairs Committee to come to its own conclusion. If we feel that it has missed some of the points that we have mentioned here, we can make a submission. We want the Rural Affairs Committee to consider it and report back to us. At that point we can decide whether these points have been covered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 231880,
      "EditedText": "There is a problem with the time we have for that process. The small print suggests that the regulation will come into force a number of days after it is published in the official journal. We need to know when that will be so that we can decide how urgent the situation is. Earlier, we said that there was not much urgency as regards these matters, but this could be the exception. We do not want to find out that the Scottish Fishermen's Federation cannot go to Shetland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 231883,
      "EditedText": "We can come back to the issue later. We will ask the Rural Affairs Committee to consider that document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 231884,
      "EditedText": "As was mentioned in our first meeting, there is some urgency in getting the matter to that committee. We believe it to be urgent but how are we to ensure that the committee decides to examine it in time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 231885,
      "EditedText": "When we refer the document to the Rural Affairs Committee, we will ask that it be considered as a matter of urgency. If, when the explanatory memorandum comes through, we find that a deadline has to be met, we can return to the matter even if we have received nothing back from the Rural Affairs Committee. Unless we hear something to the contrary, we have to assume that the Rural Affairs Committee will examine the document and report back to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 231889,
      "EditedText": "I would like to extend that recommendation to the part that covers the inclusion criteria. The document says not only that organisations be national, but that they be European trade organisations. I would like the Rural Affairs Committee to consider the whole of the paragraph at the bottom of page 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 231890,
      "EditedText": "If there is a requirement to be a European trade organisation, you can bet your life that the Spanish fishing associations will all magically be such organisations. Excuse me for being a little cynical after 24 years in Europe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ContributionID": 231892,
      "EditedText": "No explanatory memorandum has been received in relation to the business on page 5, yet the recommendation is that no further action be taken. I am a wee bit concerned as the text refers to the rights of movement, residence and entry of citizens of the European Union. It also refers to expulsions from the European Union. I have a natural suspicion about matters relating to expulsion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 229.0,
      "ContributionID": 231894,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether you, convener, or the clerks, could elaborate on the implications of the document for people in Scotland and throughout the European Union?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 231.0,
      "ContributionID": 231895,
      "EditedText": "The recommendation is down for no further action because the document is not a proposal for legislation, it is merely a Commission communication. If there is an issue that should be examined, we could consider the communication—presumably we will not be able to influence it—or we could refer the communication elsewhere. A few of the documents are Commission communications and I am willing to listen to the views of the committee on how we approach that. Do we want to bring back that communication? Given that we are on a learning curve, it may be that this communication in particular would allow us to consider not only the points mentioned by Dennis, but also the general implications of Commission communications. Having examined it, we might decide that there is no point considering Commission communications, but at least we will have gone through the process of learning what they are about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 235.0,
      "ContributionID": 231897,
      "EditedText": "Could you have another look at it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231906",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 253.0,
      "ContributionID": 231906,
      "EditedText": "It could be. Page 8 is about health, education and social protection in the harmonised index of consumer prices. The recommendation is that no further action is necessary.Page 9 relates to the agreement between the European Community and the Government of Denmark and the Home Government of the Faroe Islands. Again the recommendation is that no further action is necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231907",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 255.0,
      "ContributionID": 231907,
      "EditedText": "Could we go back to page 8, briefly? We do not have a copy of that document, we have only a description. I do not know whether I am alone in this, but I found it a wee bit difficult to understand. We could have had more description, although coming back to the point made earlier, maybe it is a very technical document. However, I would like some more information in order to understand it a little better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231909",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 259.0,
      "ContributionID": 231909,
      "EditedText": "At our previous meeting, I mentioned the possibility of having some information provided on the intranet, so that if there was a query we could examine it. I know that there are interim problems in doing that, but the documents came to me on Saturday. With the meeting being today, there has been very little time to request some items to determine at today's meeting whether we are happy with the recommendation for action in matters such as this. How can we deal with that administrative issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231911",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 263.0,
      "ContributionID": 231911,
      "EditedText": "In the interim, it would be fine just to have a copy of the documentation so that we can have a look at it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231912",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 265.0,
      "ContributionID": 231912,
      "EditedText": "We should bear in mind what Irene said earlier about some of the documents: about getting a synopsis rather than the full copy sometimes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231913",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 267.0,
      "ContributionID": 231913,
      "EditedText": "A synopsis would be fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231916",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 273.0,
      "ContributionID": 231916,
      "EditedText": "The recommendation on page 9 is for no further action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231917",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 275.0,
      "ContributionID": 231917,
      "EditedText": "Could we return to page 9—I am sorry to be difficult, but it is getting quite hot in this room and I am losing the place a little. Does the description on page 9 of the note include the farmers' ferries? I am referring to the \"Protocol to enable the trade in live animals and animal products\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231918",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 277.0,
      "ContributionID": 231918,
      "EditedText": "That applies to Denmark and the Faroes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231920",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 231920,
      "EditedText": "The recommendation on page 10 on Portuguese quotas is for no further action. On page 11, the recommendation about \"food additives other than colours and sweeteners\"is that, in the first instance, we ask the \"Health Committee for their views\".Once we have heard from that committee, it is suggested that we decide whether we need to scrutinise it at a later date, because some technical issues may need to be considered. Page 12 covers the draft model agreement to co-operate with third states. The recommendation is to ask the Justice and Home Affairs Committee for its views. Once we have its views, we can decide on our level of scrutiny.Page 13 of the sift/scrutiny recommendation note covers a Commission working paper on \"the principle of mutual recognition in product and services markets\". The recommendation is no further action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231923",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 287.0,
      "ContributionID": 231923,
      "EditedText": "Are we talking about the mutual recognition of qualifications of people engaged in those industries?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 231929,
      "EditedText": "If it was felt that it would be useful to circulate the recommendation note, we could do that.I do not know whether the minister has arrived. If not, I suggest that we address the fourth item, on requests for further briefings, and then take a break of five minutes before we hear from the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 303.0,
      "ContributionID": 231930,
      "EditedText": "One issue that was raised with the Presiding Officer at the meeting of conveners was a concern that the clerks to the committees were being asked to produce policy papers, which to some extent is beyond their remit. There were also work load implications.I have found the clerks of this committee very co-operative in producing a number of documents at short notice, and I do not want to abuse their willingness to help. Nevertheless, there will be issues on which we want background information, and we should consider whether it can be obtained from elsewhere, because there may be a time when we will be advised that we must be more careful about the requests that are made. Is there anything that we need or would like for the next meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 309.0,
      "ContributionID": 231933,
      "EditedText": "I would not mind someone coming from the European Commission or from the offices that it has here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 231934,
      "EditedText": "We will look into that. As well as the document, we may have someone to take us through it and prompt some discussion on the treaty. Is there anything else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 231937,
      "EditedText": "You mean that you do not get 17 weeks' holiday? We will need to see about that.Is there anything else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 231940,
      "EditedText": "We had a discussion about how in Europe people were accustomed to the complexities of political relationships and I think that it is something that we may have to get accustomed to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 231941,
      "EditedText": "I will rely on Mr Mundell's good services to persuade his colleague of how wrong he is."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 231942,
      "EditedText": "The European answer is subsidiarity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 231943,
      "EditedText": "We will break for five or 10 minutes, depending on when the minister arrives."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 231950,
      "EditedText": "As you mentioned, there have been informal briefings and press speculation—some of it ill informed, I believe. Perhaps you can address the primary question that concerns the committee, the Parliament and the people of Scotland. Will Scotland lose out in its financial settlement as a result of what is proposed, and how will communities that have come to depend on social funding be able to access that money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 231957,
      "EditedText": "Can we be reassured that organisations whose staff and programmes are dependent on European social funding—even though it is a new programme period—will be viewed sympathetically? Knowing that this funding will come, even if it will be late, is the cornerstone of much of their work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 231956,
      "EditedText": "I hope to make an announcement—which has not yet been agreed—within the next two to three weeks, about the period between the end of the current programme and the start of the new one, which is likely to be some way into next year. I estimate that that gap could be between four and six months. We want to ensure that organisations that currently benefit from grant aid will be aware, at an early date, of their likely situation in the new year. I cannot commit myself to an announcement today, but I can commit myself to a firm announcement on that in the next three weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 231960,
      "EditedText": "That is not quite the same question that Irene Oldfather raised, as it involves a different set of circumstances, and I want to be absolutely clear in my reply. There are two issues. First, activity is already under way involving officials to ensure that where packages are possible, they can be put in place. If that is possible within the existing funding programmes, it will be considered. Secondly, we must examine what will happen in the future. One of the questions that the committee raised was whether it would be possible to access funds for assistance in such circumstances in the future. I hope that when we examine the new plans, we will ensure that that is a clear priority within those plans. Also, we recognise that some of the flexibility in the overall Scottish budget, which might exist because of the reduction in the population coverage, might free up resources for a flexible response in areas that are not necessarily covered by the new population map but that are affected by economic decisions which cause such an impact on local communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 231962,
      "EditedText": "On the day after the announcement about the Newbridge plant was made, I announced some new moneys for European social fund projects in Stirling. Some of the people who were present were on their way to Newbridge to take part in a meeting about that kind of initiative. It is important to recognise that ESF money—objective 3 money—covers the whole of Scotland, so regardless of the population coverage of the map for objective 2, the training money that exists for such a situation covers all those areas. It is important to ensure that priority is given in the plan to areas that suffer an immediate economic impact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 231965,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned the assisted areas map. We were told by one of your senior officials, when he came to give evidence to us just a few weeks ago, that there are two completely different maps. There is the assisted areas map and the objective 2 map. Surely there must be some kind of relationship between the objective 2 map and the assisted areas map. The assisted areas map is based on electoral wards. For example, would it be possible, either in theory or in practice, for an electoral ward that is excluded from assisted area status to be included on the objective 2 map—or the other way about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 378.0,
      "ContributionID": 231966,
      "EditedText": "In theory, yes. However, while there is flexibility, and the two maps are essentially separate, the Commission would like the closest possible correlation between the two. That is taken into account by the UK Government when it submits the second map."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 386.0,
      "ContributionID": 231970,
      "EditedText": "Given what you have just said about the inappropriateness of speculating on what Dr Reid and others said, and given that Dr Reid is a member of the sub-committee that will decide the issue, do you agree that it would be wholly appropriate for Dr Reid to agree to meet this committee, so that we could avail him of our views and he could let us know what his current thinking is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 388.0,
      "ContributionID": 231971,
      "EditedText": "That is entirely a matter for Dr Reid and for the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 231977,
      "EditedText": "I raised the question because you alluded to it earlier."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 231978,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to answer the question, and that is my answer. I do not believe that the people of Scotland would ever elect a majority of members to this Parliament who would take that sort of action."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 231980,
      "EditedText": "The safety net was an agreement that was reached following negotiations between the UK and Berlin. The rationale for the safety net was that, although it was correct for the European Union to target the funds to areas that needed the money most, other areas that benefited from high population coverage would lose out. Britain was able to ensure that we would have high funding for the next seven-year period, although our population coverage might fall dramatically. That does not apply across every region or nation of the UK because there are relative levels of need and prosperity. Over the past 15 years, Scotland has done well out of the structural funds. Our population coverage has been high and our economic position relative to the rest of the UK has improved since about 1988. That is a good news story for Scotland and reflects favourably on people of many political persuasions, local authorities, the voluntary sector, the Scottish Office and both political Administrations. We have a duty to secure the best population coverage for Scotland. Although Scotland's  economic performance has improved and although, on any comparison of gross domestic product or other economic indicators, we will get less, the Scottish population coverage under objective 2 is likely to be about 40 per cent, while the population coverage south of the border is likely to be about 24 per cent. Scotland has been successful both in securing funding and in spending that money well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 231982,
      "EditedText": "As committee members will be aware, it would be wrong of me to speculate about individual areas. It remains to be seen what decisions are made by the UK Government, but the Executive and the Scotland Office are clear that the best way to distribute the population coverage and therefore the funding is on a grouped ward basis, which would allow the most targeted approach at a local level. It would also allow more communities in different parts of Scotland to be included rather than only whole local authority areas.I have received a letter from the member for Ayr, Ian Welsh, about the South Ayrshire position. My response to him will be the same as the response I gave to Mr Canavan and that I give today—that it is wrong to comment on speculation or on what may be leaked documents, but it is important that when the final decisions are made and the map is sent to Brussels, Scotland is reflected as well as is possible and the individual communities of Scotland are treated as fairly as is possible.However, this is not an exact science; neither are the percentages in the population distribution across Europe. There is a degree of negotiation and compromise in the different countries; otherwise, we would not have got the Highlands and Islands agreement, Britain would not have got the safety net. Nor is it an exact science within the UK because we have to take account of different factors. The population and economic statistics of the mid-1990s are there to use as a benchmark, but we must try to match up the relative importance of issues like fisheries or rural depopulation, industrial decline and the difficulties in the inner cities. What relative weight can we give to those?We also have to take account of developments—one good example is the situation in the Scottish Borders, which, if we went by straight statistics from the mid-1990s, would probably not even be on the table for discussion. However, it is obvious to anyone who looks at the current economic circumstances and what is likely to happen over the next six or seven years that it has to be included in discussion. We have to take account of current circumstances as well as statistics that may be four or five years out of date. I would be very happy to come back to the committee and talk in some detail about the final representations made by the UK and the Commission decisions and our role within that, although I cannot comment today on where we are in discussions behind the scenes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 437.0,
      "ContributionID": 231995,
      "EditedText": "Yes, the assigned budget is there, it is published and it will remain as published. The level of expenditure in Scotland will be roughly the same for the next three years because of the commitments that are already in the budget. What the overall picture is in the Scottish budget, where the priorities are, and any resources that are released, will be up to the Executive, and the annual discussions between the Executive and the UK Government."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 439.0,
      "ContributionID": 231996,
      "EditedText": "In order for the Scottish Parliament to come to an informed decision about whether the Executive has made the correct recommendation to the UK Government, we need maximum information about what is going on in the Executive. There must be a considerable amount of documentation about all this—for example, internal communications, and communications between the Executive and the UK Government. We cannot seriously expect Whitehall departments to reveal their documentation. They get very concerned when there are leaks or alleged leaks, or when any parliamentary committee—whether of this Parliament or Westminster—tries to find out what is going on in the corridors of power.The advent of the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Executive was meant to herald a new era of open democracy and transparency. Could we have access to the relevant documents from Mr McConnell, to see whether he is making an informed decision? Then people will be able to look at the map that eventually comes out and decide whether it was a good or a bad decision and whether it was justified by the evidence before the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 445.0,
      "ContributionID": 231999,
      "EditedText": "I understood that committee members already had documentation on the subject and that, the week before last, members received a specific briefing from Mr Millard on this topic. It is not reasonable to say that information was restricted before my presentation and this question and answer session."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 447.0,
      "ContributionID": 232000,
      "EditedText": "I am just a seeker after knowledge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 453.0,
      "ContributionID": 232003,
      "EditedText": "The reduction in approvals would start immediately because the population reduction starts immediately, but that takes two or three years to feed into the system. Approvals that have already been given will be paid for out of the Scottish budget over the next year, the year after that and the year after that. The amount of money that we spend on European structural fund initiatives in Scotland will remain roughly the same for the next three years. After that, it will be for the Parliament to decide how money is distributed over and above the level that will be covered by the funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 457.0,
      "ContributionID": 232005,
      "EditedText": "The amount of money that goes directly to local projects will be reduced as a result of the population reduction. However, the amount of money available to the Parliament to spend as it sees fit—on this and on the use of additional resources—will not automatically be reduced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C232006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 459.0,
      "ContributionID": 232006,
      "EditedText": "I am still seeking knowledge. It is up to us to determine what we spend on individual projects—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 463.0,
      "ContributionID": 232008,
      "EditedText": "Up to now, the debate has focused on the financial loss to Scotland in terms of structural funds, but it would perhaps be helpful for us to have a briefing on the concept that you have introduced, Mr McConnell. What I take from this discussion is that, if Scotland loses European structural funds on one line, the equivalent loss will still be available for spend from the total Scottish block. I think that we need to examine that equation. From what you said, I have understood that, irrespective of any cut in the allocation of European funding, there will be no loss to Scotland in expenditure. As significant—if not more significant—to me is your assurance that, within the money that will now be spent through the Scottish Executive rather than directly from European funding, we will be able to participate with you in influencing how the money is allocated. That includes choosing the strategic priorities—on issues, not just on areas on maps—and gives us the potential to examine, with other committees, how to integrate funding with other expenditure. That is worthy of a future discussion, because it gives us the ability to influence a significant source of expenditure—directly or indirectly—in a way that has not been possible before."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232011",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 471.0,
      "ContributionID": 232011,
      "EditedText": "Those options definitely exist, but are clearly going to be subject to discussion and decision within the Executive and, ultimately, to the Parliament's decision-making processes for the annual budget rounds over the next seven years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C232012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 473.0,
      "ContributionID": 232012,
      "EditedText": "I want to clarify something that you said, Mr McConnell, in answer to a point that Dennis raised about NUTS funding. Were you saying that NUTS 5 funding would give Scotland more money, whereas NUTS 4 would give less but spread it round more, and that, in your view, NUTS 4 is the favourable route?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C231816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 231816,
      "EditedText": "The plan lacks strategic thinking and, as parts of it are missing, I do not see how we can consider it. Some of the missing parts—for example those dealing with agriculture and fisheries—also have an impact on infrastructure. Until we get the whole plan we cannot examine it as an overall strategy. The plan lacks the joined-up thinking that Maureen spoke about. There is crossover between different sections and we should ask for consideration of that to be given more prominence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:39.5676447+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231784",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Tuesday 31 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 5973,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5973,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Hugh Henry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 231784,
      "EditedText": "Welcome. I have had a number of requests from members of other committees to attend this meeting for the discussion on the special programme for the Highlands and Islands. Those members are Lewis Macdonald, Rhoda Grant, George Lyon and Fergus Ewing. I am agreeable to their participation in the meeting and in any discussion; they will not have a vote, should a vote be required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231792",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 231792,
      "EditedText": "I am in the hands of the committee. Shall we go through the document section by section?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231799",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 231799,
      "EditedText": "A number of broad objectives have been articulated. Allan spoke about giving the reduction of social and economic disparity equal importance with increasing the prosperity of the Highlands and Islands. Maureen made some general suggestions and some specific ones, for example monitoring the input from elected representatives and not just from officials. A number of points were made well. I propose to continue the discussion in that vein. If members have points to make on particular sections, they should make it known."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231800",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 231800,
      "EditedText": "On a point of information, you said that the fisheries and agriculture issues are being examined elsewhere. We gave the comments from our last meeting to the Rural Affairs Committee. Can the committee clerk go over again how the full proposal will come together?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231803",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 231803,
      "EditedText": "I will ensure that the committee clerk and I speak to other conveners to bring some of those points together. We will be able to give you a better idea of how quickly we can do that once we know the answer to Margo's question about timetables. You are correct that we need to know certain information so that we can make progress on the matters before us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231805",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 231805,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of ways in which we could do that. The first is to circulate the whole of the previous plan. The second is to produce a synopsis of the key points that have been raised. The third is, in addition to the second point, to invite someone from the Executive to talk to us about the matter. What would be the preference?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231806",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 231806,
      "EditedText": "A synopsis taken in conjunction with the some of the first charts in the report—those on population changes, for example—would be sufficient. We would hardly need anything else. If we examine the demographics, we begin to see an indication of where we want to channel funds. I agree with Irene that the new structure arrangement is another country, but we must concentrate on the future. We have it here in front of us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 231813,
      "EditedText": "If you wish to pursue that matter you will have to use other avenues. Jack McConnell is coming here today specifically to discuss objective 2."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 231819,
      "EditedText": "We can certainly write to the Executive and ask for that information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C231827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 231827,
      "EditedText": "I would like to highlight communications, which brings us back to infrastructure. We know about some of the physical problems—relating to piers, roads and ferry services, for example—and about the necessity for targeting specific areas of need. Highlands and Islands Enterprise and British Telecom invested substantially in improving the communications infrastructure over the last period of the plan. Already they are starting to lag too far behind—in terms of bandwidths and so on—to attract the inward investment in telecommunications that is vital to many of the remote areas of Scotland. A lesson that is always learnt in setting up businesses in the Highlands and Islands is that the distance from markets is one of the great barriers and one that is always difficult to overcome. If a business's product can go down the telephone line, that barrier vanishes. There is the potential to attract industries that are based on telecommunications.However, it should be taken into consideration over the next six years that, if the infrastructure is not kept up to date, the Highlands and Islands will start to lose ground again. The existing good network needs continually to be upgraded because the technology is moving on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 231830,
      "EditedText": "I refer to pages 28 and 29. My point is about business closures and the inability to meet the targets that were identified under the structural funds and other Government strategies. I want to know more about this. Why is there such a high rate of business closure compared with the Scottish average? Are the rates of business closure and small business closure in the Highlands and Islands very different from those in other rural areas in Scotland? Why does there not appear to have been such a dramatic contraction in that sort of business in the islands? How important is it that petrol prices are so high in the mainland areas that show a higher rate of business closure? I would like to have a bit more detail; I believe the figures, but I want to understand the reasons behind them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 231831,
      "EditedText": "If we were to consider those reasons, we would need to contrast the figures for business closure with those for new business formation in the same period. Although the rate of business closure per 1,000 is 3.8, the rate of business formation for 1998 is 4.3 per 1,000. Ms Macdonald mentioned the islands; some communities, such as the Western Isles, have a relatively low rate of business closure but have an average rate of new business formation compared with the rest of the Highlands and Islands. The Highlands and Islands do better than the Scottish average in the creation of new businesses. There is maybe something to be explored, but if we do so, we must consider the positive as well as the negative aspects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C231835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 231835,
      "EditedText": "All that I can suggest, in response to that, is that the areas that appear to have the highest rates of business closure are Inverness, Lochaber and Orkney, areas which by many other criteria would be the most economically successful parts of the region."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 231840,
      "EditedText": "That is partly what I was saying earlier. We need to examine how we can redress some of the historic imbalances and problems that were associated with previous programmes. Table 35 on page 66 of the draft plan begins to address some of those problems by focusing on a much lower level. Much of the information and analysis presented in the plan is at the level of large geographical areas of the Highlands and Islands, but this table targets much better the smaller areas where action needs to be concentrated. To that extent, it represents a step forward. However, we will be working in something of a vacuum until figures are attached to the plan and it is put in the wider strategic context."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 231841,
      "EditedText": "Last time the problem in many areas was that projects were not brought forward. Will we now look at who is responsible for doing that? Is it the local enterprise companies, is it a crowd of people with good ideas who happen to live in an area that needs funding, or is there an overall plan? We must decide, as that was one of the difficulties. I received complaints from people in Caithness who claimed that they did not get a fair share. That was probably true, but the reason for that was that no one came forward with projects. Who is to do the homework for projects? That is the question. From the beginning, Europe made it plain that it would not do the homework, but that people on the ground and the committees that they set up would have to do it. I was told that one reason for the disparity was that people on the ground did not come forward with projects. If we want to reduce disparities, we need to consider who should do what."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 231843,
      "EditedText": "Convener, how would we get that information? Nobody is likely to put up their hand and say that they screwed up and did not provide assistance. From personal experience, Maureen, Winnie, George and other folk sitting around this table must be in a position to comment on whether people in their areas have found the system for accessing funds flawed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 231846,
      "EditedText": "I agree with David Mundell. I do not want there to be a dogfight between the various enterprise companies. That would be a disaster. We must have a view of the Highlands and Islands as a whole, and what will be good for it, including the peripheral areas. We must not have a competition which results in people feeling that they have been hard done by."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 231850,
      "EditedText": "We talked about the detailed analysis that we think needs to be undertaken, and Margo MacDonald made a point about the various businesses that ceased trading. We will need to look at that analysis in terms of the time scale that we have for examining this draft and for the report. It will be important to build in what is possible. I would also like to support David Mundell's point. We must not lose the importance of the end of this process, and of the basic principles that we can draw from it and apply usefully, if not totally, to other rural areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 231853,
      "EditedText": "I think that that was what we said. However, we can flag up the committee's very strong view that there needs to be geographic targeting in order to ensure that the communities of greatest need are assisted. That does not commit us to a final decision ahead of seeing the more detailed information, but at least it would flag up the issue to the Scottish Executive and, at an early date, make it aware of this committee's strong view that this point needs to be examined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Highlands and Islands)",
      "HeadingID": 5974,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 5974,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 231854,
      "EditedText": "That is one you owe me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 231859,
      "EditedText": "When a document as technical as that is received, could we have a note stating if it will affect our industries in Scotland, or if it does not apply?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 231861,
      "EditedText": "I advise Dr Ewing that explanatory memorandums from the lead Whitehall department usually accompany these documents. However, because of the recess, in this case the memorandum has not arrived at the same time as the document. All the documents that members receive will have an associated explanatory memorandum covering the details suggested by Dr Ewing. As I said in my comments at the start of the meeting, if members require a further Scottish dimension, they can request a supplementary Scottish explanatory memorandum, which will explain some of the policy issues from a Scottish perspective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 231866,
      "EditedText": "We receive the EM from the Whitehall department, not from the Westminster scrutiny committee. The EM is a separate document, which contains the Whitehall department's further explanation of the European documents. When we receive the EC document, it would be normal for the Whitehall EM to follow within around 10 days. We can request the SEM as soon as we know that we wish to consider one of the EC documents. Again, the SEM will follow around 10 days after we receive the EC document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 231867,
      "EditedText": "May I assume, from the information contained in the sift/scrutiny recommendation note, that none of the proposals for council decisions require to be acted on before Westminster resumes at the end of October?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231869",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 231869,
      "EditedText": "So we will not miss any opportunities to comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231870",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 231870,
      "EditedText": "I have not been alerted by Westminster or by the Executive that that will happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 231871,
      "EditedText": "We will go through the document page by page. Are we agreed on the recommendation on page 1?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 231873,
      "EditedText": "The one on the sift/scrutiny recommendation. The first page of that concerns the action programme to promote the integration of refugees. We are recommending that that goes to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee.Do we also agree with the recommendation on page 2?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 231874,
      "EditedText": "It would be helpful if you could mention the subject matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 231875,
      "EditedText": "That is on the fishing industry as affected by common fisheries policies. We recommend that that goes to the Rural Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 231876,
      "EditedText": "I have a question on that, which may be urgent. The proposal for a council regulation contains an alarming feature; it proposes to abolish the present advisory committee, because it does not work, and to establish a new one. It is difficult to find out who the committee members will be or how they will be chosen, but there are one or two points that we should be alerted to. The council hopes to reduce the size of the committee, while ensuring that it consults the trade organisations in the fishing industries of Europe. It goes on to say that it will give preference to European organisations. I want to be sure that our Scottish organisations will not be cut out by this additional requirement, which did not apply to the old advisory committee.This matter is urgent; we cannot wait around to find out about it while it hardens into a nasty situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 231878,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to play awkward squads, Mr Convener, but is this not a point of principle? Perhaps we should indicate to the Rural Affairs Committee whether we think the way in which the EU operates in this instance, in relation to trade associations, suits our situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 231887,
      "EditedText": "We will ask the Rural Affairs Committee to examine the document and, in particular, the points that you raise. At that point, if there is a need for us to comment further, we will do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 231888,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry if I was clumsy in expressing myself. That is what I suggest we do. We should not steer the committee but recommend that it consider my points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 227.0,
      "ContributionID": 231893,
      "EditedText": "That is quite understandable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 237.0,
      "ContributionID": 231898,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we will put it on the agenda for the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 239.0,
      "ContributionID": 231899,
      "EditedText": "Yes, because I would hate to think that our recommendation for no further action would mean that some time next year someone would find themselves expelled from Scotland, or would have their freedom of movement within the European Union restricted, because we did not raise any protest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 241.0,
      "ContributionID": 231900,
      "EditedText": "We will bring it back in order to consider two issues. First, the specific issue that is mentioned in the document and, secondly, the status of Commission communications and our ability to influence them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 243.0,
      "ContributionID": 231901,
      "EditedText": "Some Commission communications can be very long. I do not know about the one that we are talking about, but often there is an explanatory memorandum at the beginning. If not, perhaps we could get the clerks to prepare a synopsis in order to cut down the amount of reading that we need to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 245.0,
      "ContributionID": 231902,
      "EditedText": "Okay, that is a good idea. Page 6 refers to Slovenia, again the recommendation is that no further action is needed. Page 7 is about modernising social protection and we recommend that we send the document to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, simply for its interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231903",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 247.0,
      "ContributionID": 231903,
      "EditedText": "Yes, although my question is why."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231904",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 249.0,
      "ContributionID": 231904,
      "EditedText": "Well, maybe it will learn something."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231908",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 257.0,
      "ContributionID": 231908,
      "EditedText": "It is to do with how products are treated on the index of consumer prices and with whether we think that that issue is one for this committee or for any other committee that will be examining consumer prices in the contexts of health, education or social protection. Interruption. Sorry—was documentation circulated on that point? It should have been, but it is not indicated on the recommendation note that it was circulated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231910",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 261.0,
      "ContributionID": 231910,
      "EditedText": "One thing that we can do is start the sift process earlier. In the meantime, do you want this matter brought back or referred to another committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231915",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 271.0,
      "ContributionID": 231915,
      "EditedText": "Support your local port!"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231919",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 231919,
      "EditedText": "I just wanted to check that they were the only places concerned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231924",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 289.0,
      "ContributionID": 231924,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231925",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 291.0,
      "ContributionID": 231925,
      "EditedText": "That can be very important for our people. There are problems with Scots-Italian teachers, ski instructors in France—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231926",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 293.0,
      "ContributionID": 231926,
      "EditedText": "That sounds good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231927",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Documentation",
      "HeadingID": 5975,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ID": 5975,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 295.0,
      "ContributionID": 231927,
      "EditedText": "We should ask for more information on that before we make a decision. Page 14 deals with \"synthetic fibres of polyesters originating in Taiwan\".We are asking the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee for its views and, once we have heard them, we will decide on the level of scrutiny that we require. It is an important matter for the textile industry in Scotland. We are agreed on that.If members have any comments that they think may help to improve the sift process, please speak to Stephen Imrie between meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 305.0,
      "ContributionID": 231931,
      "EditedText": "The Amsterdam Treaty brief is useful, but the treaty heralds a big change in Europe and I would not mind a further explanation of how it dictates to some of the issues that we may be considering. Previously, I brought up how the priorities in the Highlands and Islands are partly defined by the way the Amsterdam Treaty looks at the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 231938,
      "EditedText": "Following an experience that I had, it might be appropriate to issue a reverse briefing to our Westminster colleagues, because a Westminster member I spoke to felt that it was inappropriate that as a member of the Scottish Parliament I should be dealing with European matters, as he understood European matters to be reserved. This is the area in which we will need to work most closely with our Westminster colleagues. It might be appropriate for us to set out that we want to do that in a positive way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 231944,
      "EditedText": "Before we break, can I give my apologies for having to leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5976,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ID": 5976,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 334.0,
      "ContributionID": 231945,
      "EditedText": "Meeting suspended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 338.0,
      "ContributionID": 231947,
      "EditedText": "I welcome Jack McConnell, the Minister for Finance, and his officials. We propose to invite the minister to make a short presentation, following which I will invite each member of the committee in turn to ask him a question, hear his reply and, if necessary, follow up with a supplementary. If we still have time once everybody has asked a question, we will return to other questions that may not have been addressed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 231951,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of elements. The overall Scottish budget will not be affected by those decisions. We will spend the same amount this year that we spent in the previous year on European structural fund projects as part of the overall Scottish assigned budget, and that will not be affected by those decisions. The budget will rise or fall in line with the funding policies that have been agreed and the decisions that are taken here and elsewhere. The amount that we are able to allocate to European projects will fall as the population coverage falls and European funding allocated to the UK falls. We should be clear that in the first three years of the new programme the amount that is spent on projects in Scotland is—if anything—perhaps likely to increase slightly as previous commitments work their way through the system.We face some decisions as an Executive and correspondingly as a Parliament in the final years of the new seven-year programme as the amount of money will taper off with the population coverage dropping, but the money will still be there in the Scottish budget. It will be for the Executive, subject to the authorisation and agreement of the Parliament, to propose what to do with any moneys that are freed up by the reduction in population coverage. An issue that committees of the Parliament could usefully discuss in the months and years ahead is possible uses of that money to help areas that have lost out because of their relative prosperity in relation to communities elsewhere in Scotland and Europe.It is important to recognise that a significant amount of transitional funding is available. No area in Scotland covered by the new objective 2 will lose out entirely as a result of the reduction in population in the next period, because the transitional funding agreed—and it was lobbied for hard by the British Government—will allow some coverage for those areas in terms of approvals in the years ahead."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 231948,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Mr Henry. It is good to be here. It would be helpful if I made one or two introductory remarks about the relationship between me, the Executive and the committee, before commenting on the structural funds and objective 2. It is important that the Executive works closely with the committees, and particularly important, given my role in relation to the European structural funds and, to some extent, in other European matters, that I have a strong and constructive working relationship with this committee. It is probable that more practical, decision-making work will regularly be done here than in most committees. It could be helpful to the Parliament and to the Executive to have that relationship, given the experience, the level of interest and the expertise—across all parties—of the members who have been selected or have volunteered to take part.There is much work to be done, and Colin Imrie and Jim Millard, who are here today for this presentation, and I will be happy to come back on other occasions to discuss some of those issues in greater depth. The committee will be aware that its members and the Executive have a number of practical responsibilities, including implementation of the structural funds and EC legislation and the representative role for Scotland.We also have a wider role, which is to inform Scotland about European affairs and the work of the Parliament in relation to them, to represent Scotland externally and to promote European issues and ideals in Scotland. I hope that we can do that together in a united fashion, as well as having political debates and discussions when they are appropriate. Within that context, I will make a few remarks about the structural funds, but I am happy to answer questions from the committee. Scotland has done particularly well from European structural funds over the years. In the 1980s, a Scottish commissioner in Brussels was responsible for structural funds. That and the good work done by Strathclyde Regional Council and then by Highland Regional Council led to Scotland receiving good deals from the structural funds at the time and since. The devolution settlement recognises that: it gives us a clear responsibility for implementing the programmes of funding inside Scotland, a role in feeding into the UK's representations on the frameworks and the funding that is agreed at a European level, and a guarantee of the allocation of the budget that exists in the overall Scottish block. The European Union agreed in Berlin in March this year to some fairly dramatic changes in funding, which the committee will be largely aware of already. The efforts in the community to focus funding on areas of real need should be welcomed by everybody who has an interest in social cohesion and economic prosperity across Europe. The impact for Scotland and the rest of the UK of enlargement, of economic changes and of an overall reduction in population coverage across Europe are clear. In March, the UK got a good deal and so did Scotland. The decision to maintain funding for the Highlands and Islands when it fell so far short of automatic objective 1 criteria, the decision to have a 67 per cent safety net for the objective 2 coverage and the agreement on transitional moneys for the areas that would lose out across the UK should all be welcomed by us. That leaves us with decisions to make about the new objective 2 framework, which covers most of the old objectives 2 and 5b and many of the Community initiatives that were taken up in many areas in Scotland during the past decade. The UK must agree a map of population coverage to be presented to the Commission. It must be fair and reasonable and, as far as it is possible to assess, target the potential for funding on the areas of most need.The committee will be aware of the four strands that make up objective 2. They need to cover the old fisheries areas, areas that are suffering rural depopulation, areas that are suffering industrial decline and inner-city areas that have multiple difficulties. They are important strands that we recognise as top priorities in Scotland, but they are areas where Scotland's position relative to the rest of the UK as well as to the rest of Europe has improved in recent years. For that reason, we face a challenge in securing the maximum amount of population coverage—and therefore funding—for Scotland in the new objective 2.Scotland's position in relation to many of the poorer areas of Europe is much stronger than it used to be. A point I would like to make very forcibly is that even the figure of approximately 40 per cent of Scottish population coverage, which was being speculated about at the end of July, is significantly above what Scotland would get if population coverage were based on gross domestic product and compared with the European average, and significantly above what would be the case in England, despite the fact that the economic performance of Scotland and England is now much closer than it used to be. We have to be very clear that Scotland has had, over the years, a very good deal from European funding. Even with the reduction in population coverage, with the greater focus on targeting areas of real need it should be possible for Scotland to continue to get a very good deal. Our job is to ensure that money is spent in the best way possible.The Executive is very keen that the map that is submitted by the UK is as focused as possible on areas of need, so we support the move towards the grouping of local authority wards to design the map. We want to ensure that that happens as much as possible so that areas in Scotland that deserve European funding are well covered within the overall regulations. The budget for European funding in Scotland is guaranteed as far as we can see into the future, which at the moment is just over the next two or three years. Any reduction in population coverage in Scotland will not affect that budget for the next two and a half years at the very least, until the spending round for the final year of this Executive in Parliament. We are in a strong position; I want to touch briefly on what might be the way ahead. This may not be the immediate focus of the committee's attention, but I assume that the committee will want to debate a number of issues in the weeks and months ahead. We have to prepare programme plans, and I am aware that the committee has already discussed the Highlands and Islands draft plan that is out for consultation. A plan for objective 3 status will be published in the near future, and once the map is agreed, there will have to be plans for objective 2 in different parts of Scotland.The programme plans should come back here for discussion. I would like this committee to discuss the programme monitoring committees and the programme management executives, which have responsibility for agreeing the detailed work on those plans and monitoring their implementation. The committee must be clear that I am absolutely committed to a local approach to the implementation of the structural funds within the overall Scottish priorities and framework. We should take a partnership approach, which has been successful during recent years. The new committees and the Executive must work efficiently and effectively to ensure that the moneys are best targeted and focused on those who are successfully delivering local projects as well as on the communities that most need funding. I will continue to welcome the committee's views on those matters and on the immediate matters that face us in September 1999. I am also keen to hear the views of committee members on strategic priorities, urban and rural, on the matter of wards versus local authority areas, and on the variety of choices that face the British Government in making its representations to the Commission on the map for the whole of the UK, including Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 231952,
      "EditedText": "We discussed that latter point briefly when we had a briefing at our previous meeting. Can you give us the reassurance that there is sufficient flexibility in the disbursement process within the block grant to ensure that communities—whether those are on NUTS 4 or on NUTS 5—will be able to access public money for those purposes, whether or mot it is classed as objective 2 money?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 231953,
      "EditedText": "I have to be careful, because I cannot tie the hands of the Parliament, which has to make the decisions on the budget, or of the next Parliament, because our session lasts for four years and this programme lasts for seven. What I can say is that for the first two—and I would expect three—years of this programme, the amount spent on European structural fund projects in Scotland will be roughly the same as, and perhaps in year two slightly higher than, it is at the moment. For the years following that, it will be up to the Executive and the Parliament to decide what the moneys that will be freed up by the reduction in population coverage will be spent on. One of the options would be to ensure that some kind of funding package was available to areas that had benefited—perhaps, for example, working in partnership to attract industry and develop new projects from the previous objectives 1 and 5b."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 231955,
      "EditedText": "One of the problems that has plagued European structural funding, and particularly European social funding, has been late payment. The voluntary sector is dependent on that problem being resolved. Given that the time scale is tight in agreeing those regulations, can the minister give an assurance that contingency plans are in place, should there be any slippage in the programme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 231958,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I can make a firm announcement today about what will happen next year, but I can commit myself to making an announcement within the next three weeks. I can also say that when that announcement is made, it will be communicated as quickly as possible to everyone who is affected by it, so that they can know clearly how they will stand at the end of the year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 231961,
      "EditedText": "The continental situation provides a good example of the switch from one programme to the other. When I spoke to the member for Edinburgh West, Margaret Smith, she said that on the new map Newbridge might just manage to squeeze into the Kirkliston ward. However, it might not manage to squeeze into that ward; it might still be in West Lothian. That is what I mean by falling between two stools. If you do not mind my telling you, that is a good example to show why you must target closely. I am concerned that the timetabling might mean that we miss the boat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 231963,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask about the objective 2 map and, in particular, about the geographical unit for eligibility. There were reports last month about a Cabinet sub-committee meeting having to be cancelled or postponed because of some disagreement among various Cabinet ministers. The report said that the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, Stephen Byers, demanded that eligibility for objective 2 status be based on the boundaries of entire councils rather than on those of smaller council wards. The same report said that Mr Byers's proposal would release more money for Scotland, yet when the Secretary of State for Scotland, John Reid, appeared before the Scottish Affairs Committee at about the same time, he indicated his preference for the electoral wards as the best units of measurement for objective 2 status. Does the Scottish Executive agree with the Stephen Byers proposal or with the John Reid proposal? Why?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 380.0,
      "ContributionID": 231967,
      "EditedText": "Could you answer this specific question: is it possible for a ward that is excluded from the assisted areas map to be included on the objective 2 map, and vice versa?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 394.0,
      "ContributionID": 231974,
      "EditedText": "At the beginning of your evidence you alluded to the fact that Scotland can interpret EU regulations and directives differently from England. That was confirmed for me by the European Commission last week. That being the case, do you recognise that in future there might be an element of conflict? For example, if the Scottish Executive party was different from the party that was running Westminster, our interpretation of EU legislation might be different. If our interpretation was regarded as void by the EU, it would take action against Westminster, not us. For example, if the Scottish Executive refused to implement an EU directive on fisheries because it would damage our industry, the EU would fine or sanction Westminster, and it would be up to Westminster to take action against us. Who would police our implementation of EU regulations from the Westminster end? That could be a point for friction in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 231979,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that we are all relieved that you intend to focus on the areas of most need through the ward approach. It might be because of ignorance—I have not read the briefing sheets properly—but I am still unclear about the transitional arrangements and the flexible approach that we have discussed, nor am I clear about what is referred to in the briefing as an agreement for a \"safety net\", which will lead to a reduction in population coverage under objective 2 of not more than a third. How does the safety net relate to the transitional arrangements for funding?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 231981,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the fact that you mentioned targeting resources to the areas of greatest need. There has been a lot of concern that areas that currently receive funding might lose out under what people assume to be the current proposals. I am not making a special plea for my area—the convener would not let me do that and I am aware that other areas experience similar problems—but places such as South Ayrshire, which have a mix of rural and urban areas and use funding for skills training for tourism and business development, could lose out. I seek an assurance that the areas of greatest need that you mentioned would be defined by poverty indicators such as high unemployment  and high incidences of social exclusion, and would include areas linked to the social inclusion partnership areas as well as areas where there was an opportunity for development based on what had already been undertaken."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 231984,
      "EditedText": "I will mention here our ideas to integrate the strands of funding. There are a lot of initiatives in Scotland, not least the social inclusion partnerships, as well as a number of initiatives from the Executive and the UK Government targeting poverty and social exclusion. As we look at the new plans and the priorities for projects for the next seven years we need to ensure that we maximise their impact. We also need to make sure that we are linking what we are doing in the Scottish Executive to try to tackle the communities in Scotland that are currently suffering most in terms of economic deprivation and social exclusion with what is being done at a local government level, in the voluntary sector and in the UK Government. I am very keen that we do that and in the course of the next few months there is likely to be an opportunity for the committee to be involved in discussions on how we might approach that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 419.0,
      "ContributionID": 231986,
      "EditedText": "On that last point, there was a lot of concentration on maps, and rightly so. Correct me if I am wrong, but the point that Mr McConnell just made is probably the most important. Whether individual communities or areas of defined need find themselves included or excluded from either the assisted areas or from the objective 2 map, what is important is how we facilitate access for those communities to the moneys that are available to them. Will the Scottish Executive implement plans to facilitate that process for those areas of need that we can all identify?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 423.0,
      "ContributionID": 231988,
      "EditedText": "I am going to cut you off in full flow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 427.0,
      "ContributionID": 231990,
      "EditedText": "Yes, you are okay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C231991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 429.0,
      "ContributionID": 231991,
      "EditedText": "This programme offers a lot of  opportunities over the next seven years. The population coverage decreases in Scotland were always going to happen, as we were benefiting from these funds more than any other part of Europe in the late 1980s, as a result of the efforts of Strathclyde Regional Council and Highland Regional Council. We can benefit again over the next seven years. We can do that best by streamlining the administration, targeting resources, monitoring the projects in order to ensure that those that are more successful in terms of outcomes receive continued funding, and ensuring that the areas that perhaps miss out on being included in the map not only receive transitional funding but are supported by the work of the Scottish Executive. That will ensure the continuation of the good work that they have done over the years to improve their relative economic position. It is important that we deal with the situation in a flexible way, in order to tackle the problems that arise from time to time in particular areas. We must also use statistics and a scientific approach to criteria, and yet be flexible enough to respond to the problems that need to be tackled in different communities in Scotland. We must do that in a cross-cutting way, to use the jargon of the day, and in using that approach, we must involve other levels of government and other forms of funding. If we do that, the level of population coverage that exists will be sufficient to allow us to benefit from European funding. That overall approach by the Executive and the different arms of the Government in Scotland will be of benefit to local communities, and we can establish an applications process and an intervention process that will produce real benefits for local communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ID": 5977,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 431.0,
      "ContributionID": 231992,
      "EditedText": "Just before I bring Dennis in, I want to follow through on that point. There is a strand that brings together earlier points made by Dennis Canavan, Allan Wilson and Cathy Jamieson. Mr McConnell answered Cathy Jamieson's point about better integration and targeting resources on areas of greatest need—a point raised by other members. Dennis Canavan asked whether there could be areas that are eligible under assisted area status but that are not eligible under objective 2 status, to which Mr McConnell replied, \"Yes\". As for rumour, leaks and speculation, my own area qualifies under assisted area status but, although I hope that this is not the case, it might not qualify under objective 2. Mr McConnell introduced a new dimension early on in his comments. Can he confirm that, while there would be a reduction in coverage under objective 2, with European rules applying to the distribution of funds, he also said—correct me if I am wrong—that under the current budget settlement, there would be no reduction in funding to Scotland? That would, potentially, give this Parliament the opportunity to respond flexibly to the areas of greatest need. If any areas lose out in the way that Dennis was hinting at, the Scottish Executive and, probably more crucially, the Scottish Parliament could influence the distribution of the same budget, but in a different way—one that follows our agenda rather than an agenda established elsewhere. Am I correct on that point?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 443.0,
      "ContributionID": 231998,
      "EditedText": "But you have not given us even one document, Mr McConnell. Even at Westminster, when ministers come before the select committees, they bring some documentation for public consumption and for the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C232009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5977,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 467.0,
      "ContributionID": 232009,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to make supplementary information available if that is helpful. As I understand it, the role of the committees in relation to the annual budget will depend on whatever liaison arrangements exist between the conveners and the Parliamentary Bureau. I am happy to discuss the future use of funding with the European Committee but I want to be sensitive to the role of the Finance Committee and to the determination of who is discussing what."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C232010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 31 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1331
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-31T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds (Objective 2 Eligibility)",
      "HeadingID": 5977,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5977,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 469.0,
      "ContributionID": 232010,
      "EditedText": "We in no way want to step on to the remit of other committees. However, if we in the European Committee see replacement expenditure for the reduction in European funding starting to come in under another heading, I think, from the discussions today and at previous meetings, that we could request that the Parliament address certain aspects of the gaps between the assisted area status and current objective 2 status maps and integration. That is not our responsibility but we could flag up indicators for other committees. You have given us something new to think about today, Mr McConnell, and that has been very helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.1028868+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 603237,
      "EditedText": "It will hide-bound the Parliament if the conveners, vice-conveners or reporters cannot be spokespersons for their parties. We should make it clear that that would be an unacceptable way for the Parliament to proceed. Obviously, I am interested in housing. I have raised concerns about the timetable continuously and I think that the suggestion that two members should work on it makes sense. I am quite happy for John to be the reporter. Perhaps we could work together to consider the programme—as well as my analysis and close examination of the timetable and the agenda—although John could formally report to the committee. Is he willing to work on that basis?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.0585835+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 432.0,
      "ContributionID": 603285,
      "EditedText": "Any Parliament business that has been decided is unlikely to be changed before next week. We can move ahead with some of these briefings, for example."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 603177,
      "EditedText": "Housing benefit reform is an important part of the stock transfer issue as well. If the stock transfers that are proposed result in rent increases for many council tenants, and housing benefit rises faster in Scotland than it does in England as a result of this Parliament's legislative or economic programme, there will be an impact on the Scottish block.We should consider the housing stock transfer debate from two angles: we should examine economic and financial aspects but we should also—to tie in with what we are trying to do elsewhere—assess whether stock transfers are delivering on the community empowerment and social inclusion agendas. By considering stock transfers from those two angles we can bring in the housing benefit aspects, which are important. It will be useful to question whether stock transfers deliver community empowerment and participation, those buzzwords that we mentioned. That perspective will be a supplement to the results of the green paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7769616+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 603180,
      "EditedText": "What John is proposing makes sense, particularly the timing of it, because we will be tied by debates that go on outwith this committee. His proposal will also tie in with getting an early indication from the minister—which we discussed earlier—of what is expected and when, and a view of how things are developing. I think that we are looking at a running brief. The anti-poverty strategy is a major piece of work—a meaty, strategic issue—but if we are to keep abreast of contemporary debates as we go along, then we must look at housing too. I do not want the suggested programme to kick housing into touch, but I do not think that we would allow it to do that. It is a case of keeping pace with the debate and with the legislative programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7769616+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 603217,
      "EditedText": "But not too late."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7769616+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 603219,
      "EditedText": "Are we talking about a committee member or an external reporter?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 603146,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned that the work of the Parliament and the committees has been restricted because of worries about staffing—the availability of the clerks—and financing. It is evident, however, that members from all parties want the issue of drugs to be dealt with. My concern is that if we pigeonhole the issue by saying that we are considering only the social inclusion aspects, other committees will identify and examine the justice and health aspects individually. With the agreement of the committee, I would like you to suggest at tomorrow's meeting of conveners that, rather than the whole of our committee considering the issue, some members of the committee could join members of the justice and health committees collectively to consider all the aspects. There is a danger that, otherwise, we might lose the issue or pass on a commentary about our findings that will not result in action, which is what people want. I suggest—and we should find out what others think of this—that we should send two or three members from this committee to join members from other committees. If there is to be one additional committee in this Parliament, that should be the one."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 603079,
      "EditedText": "Everybody likes you, Margaret."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 603081,
      "EditedText": "As I have already written to Martin to point out, I have a slight concern about the listing of our priorities. Fuel poverty is inseparable from a national comprehensive strategy for poverty. Fuel poverty is clearly an element of a national anti-poverty strategy. As soon as any of the poverty-proofing indicators are taken out of a national anti-poverty strategy, a hole will be created that will allow poverty to breed. At this stage, it is vital that, if we are to discuss a national, comprehensive strategy for poverty, we make it clear that fuel poverty, along with many other issues, is part of that strategy and is not a separate issue."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603082",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 603082,
      "EditedText": "I was going to raise exactly the same issue. In fact, the convener in her paper subdivided the national strategy into three strands. Fuel poverty is not mentioned specifically under any of those strands, and there are no recommendations on how fuel poverty will be addressed. While, ideally, we want to agree that fuel poverty will be one of the issues that we examine as part of the anti-poverty strategy, it has slipped betwixt and between the strands."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 603084,
      "EditedText": "It is also important to break the subject down into discrete, workable pieces that we can deal with, doing something useful, as opposed to the risk of having a grandiose strategy that does not get to grips with anything."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603090",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
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    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 603090,
      "EditedText": "Those are two big points that come up in the debate about poverty all the time. Part of the reason that I have structured the paper in this way—and I did this in my role as convener rather than in the way that I would respond politically—was to say, in the section that considers the national anti-poverty strategy, that when we get into that kind of work that is where the debate of those issues rests. Let us stick to the remit of the committee first and see what we can do. If we feel that we must go beyond that and tackle some of the issues, that will be the time to have that debate about whether we really have to examine benefits or look at the work that the committee is challenged with immediately.Tommy, what I have proposed in the remit as a strategic framework for the analysis of poverty is where those points are mentioned. I have mentioned measures and targets there. We have to discuss that issue as people have different points of view on which measures we should use and which targets we should set. Should we be saying, as the Government has done, that we will tackle child poverty by measures A, B ,C and D and this is how we should measure it? We will not manage the work of the committee properly if we have a limited discussion of that issue now. We should discuss the issue properly within a framework. We can discuss the politics of those issues then. Hopefully, the groups that have a vested interest in those issues will be able to give us their points of view as well."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603095",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 603095,
      "EditedText": "I now want to look at point 2 on the paper to propose priorities. As some of you may know, tomorrow afternoon the conveners of committees will meet to consider a substantial package of papers relating to the work of the committees. I wanted to let you know about the meeting because it will have a big part to play in our work. However, I will report on it later, so as not to detract from our discussion of prioritisationPoint 3 on the paper covers submissions to the committee. We have had a number of submissions and I am sure that we will have many more. I want publicly to record that the committee welcomes those submissions and encourages people to give us their views. Point 4 simply states that we must manage the committee programme of work effectively, but I want to move to point 5.2, which deals with the work of the Executive."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603101",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 603101,
      "EditedText": "That might be helpful across the range of subjects that this committee covers. We must think a wee bit about how we manage it. It might, for example, be worth producing our own briefing on the summary of responses to the green paper and then to question the minister on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603104",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 603104,
      "EditedText": "I would like to follow on from my earlier point. The Secretary of State for Social Security made a statement yesterday on targets for the reduction of poverty across the UK. That clearly affects Scotland. I am obviously in favour of an early meeting with the Minister for Communities and her staff, but we must invite the Secretary of State for Social Security at some point, although I am not saying that that should be our top priority. Once we get into discussions on a national anti-poverty strategy, the targets referred to in the statement he made yesterday and the work of his department will greatly affect the ability of the Scottish Parliament—with its limited powers and resources—to achieve the objectives that we are talking about."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 603111,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the committee clerk could speak to that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603116",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 603116,
      "EditedText": "Even if that is not a general rule of the Parliament, it is something that we should adopt as a matter of practice, given that we are the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, so that we are aware of the vested interests of those who give evidence to us."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603117",
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    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 603117,
      "EditedText": "As someone who used to work for a lobbying company, I am happy to rise to the bait. It is absolutely clear that everybody—whoever they are—should make it clear whose interests they are representing, whether their own or those of a client organisation. We should expect, and indeed demand, that to be perfectly clear so that we can ask informed questions."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 603129,
      "EditedText": "As an old socialist I am normally in favour of seizures of power from the Executive or any committee, but we should be careful about building our own little empire that takes over the Scottish Parliament. The model is that there will be a lead committee for issues that come under the remit of more than one committee. Obviously, in developing an anti-poverty strategy for Scotland, ours is the lead committee. However, there will be times when we can refer matters to other committees because they have a legitimate interest and can primarily address the technical aspects of that interest better than we can. We can work together with other committees, rather than taking power away from them.I am also concerned about funding arrangements for projects such as social inclusion partnerships.Social security has a major bearing on poverty. Any discussion about poverty will inevitably talk about the benefits that are available to poor people. What is the committee's remit in that respect? I know that our Westminster friends are a bit sensitive about us stumbling into areas that they regard as their preserve. As I was late in coming here can someone tell me whether there was a discussion about benefits?I was at the social inclusion partnership conference in Dundee. Speaking informally to ordinary people who were there, I was told that they were concerned about professionals—who work for voluntary organisations and who are not themselves poor but are paid a good wage for working in poor areas—dominating the poverty debate. We must ensure that poor people have access to the debate.Was there any discussion about the fact that we cannot expect everyone in Scotland who is poor to come here to give evidence to the committee? The committee will need to get out to the housing schemes in Scotland and into areas where poor people do not feel overawed. Perhaps that is the wrong word. It is not normal for them to come to meetings like this, so it is important for us to get out and talk to them in an environment with which they are more familiar and which we should become more familiar with. I hope that that becomes an important part of the approach to the issue of poverty."
    },
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  {
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    },
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      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 603130,
      "EditedText": "I was going to raise that issue later on, as it is important. If we are to understand social exclusion, it is not enough for us to have people come here; we need to feel and live it. The paper before us states that those who experience exclusion should speak to the issue. The voluntary sector and social workers have something important to say, but that is not the same as talking to those who have direct experience of exclusion. I have had discussions with some groups about how we can create a system for doing that. It would be done partly through those groups and partly through our visits. Our visits will not involve going off to nice conferences in places such as Milan, but going to places such as Whitfield, Easterhouse and Pilton—although I do not know Edinburgh that well."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603132",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 603132,
      "EditedText": "We are genuinely committed to being in those places. Later I will talk about the nitty-gritty of organising that.The issue of social security was raised before Mr McAllion arrived."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 603133,
      "EditedText": "It was I who raised it. Like the convener, I believe that the two key issues relating to the causes of poverty and tackling poverty in society are unemployment and benefits. I do not want to make a party-political point, but the Welfare Reform and Pensions Bill that is currently before the Westminster Parliament would make the situation of some people worse rather than better. We cannot seriously discuss an anti-poverty strategy without tackling the related issues of employment, unemployment and benefits, particularly benefit reform. In the next six months, the UK Government will announce its proposals for the reform of housing benefit. That may have a tremendous impact on the level of poverty among certain groups in society, both in Scotland and elsewhere. If we are serious about developing an anti-poverty strategy, we must be prepared to tackle those issues. Even though legislative power resides at Westminster, there is no reason for us as a committee—and, indeed, as a Parliament—not to demand action from Westminster on employment, benefit reform, better social security benefits and other matters. There is nothing in the Scotland Act 1998 to prevent us from doing that. If we do not face the problems of unemployment and benefits as part of our anti-poverty strategy, we will be kidding the people on. The cruellest thing that this committee could do would be to kid on the people of Scotland that, without tackling those issues, we can come up with an anti-poverty strategy that will begin to eliminate poverty. That would be a fraud and it would not do the Scottish Parliament any good in the eyes of the Scottish people. For that reason, I strongly support what John said."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C603136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 603136,
      "EditedText": "I want to pursue Mike's point about taking people with us. I hope that, when discussing funding arrangements, support for regeneration and work with the social inclusion partnerships, we will remember that, lower down the administrative hierarchy, local government is often left with the task of making policies work. When it comes to funding arrangements, I hope that the committee will be honest enough to examine the facts and figures rather than Government-speak about those figures. As a local councillor, I find it galling to read about extra funding that is supposed to be being made available when we in the City of Glasgow Council are cutting services.I know that you, convener, have been involved in the voluntary sector for many years and are acutely aware of that. I hope that we can arrange our affairs to take the local councils with us. We're no saying, \"reinvent the wheel\". Many local councils have good ideas but often do not have the money to carry them out. It is important that we listen to them."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603137",
    "Meeting": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
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      "EditedText": "To respond to this big debate, we must remember that we are one strand of a response to poverty. We are not going to answer everything in this committee. The councils do a very important job tackling poverty and other parts of the Government cover important areas of work. I do not think that that prohibits our commenting on their work when we have the evidence to do so. We should not shy away from that—I am not prepared to. Evidence will also come from the communities that experience poverty. Let us really concentrate on what our powers are; we must ensure that we use our powers effectively so that people cannot tell us that we were so busy criticising other people that we did not comment on our own work as well. When we get evidence, we must take it to other committees or to the appropriate parts of the British Government, but we have to ensure that we focus on our own work."
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    "Meeting": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 603138,
      "EditedText": "John raised an important point that I made at the first meeting about where the spending ends up in a lot of these programmes, particularly those previously funded under urban aid and which are now funded under social inclusion—the in phrase which I detest, as opposed to social justice—partnerships. I have no doubt from my experience or from what people who are experiencing poverty say that that they are fed up to the back teeth with people in what they call the poverty industry making a bob or two. When we examine the audit trail of spend, an awful lot of it ends up with what I call the woolly jersey brigade, not with the people who need the resources and assistance to get out of poverty. We should also bear in mind that there is not a lumpen section of the population that is the poor people of Scotland. People regularly move in and out of poverty. Some people never move out of it, but all types of people can move into it and then out again. It is important to register that, when we discuss people who have had experience of poverty, we are referring to those who have been able to lift themselves out of it or, more likely, to those who kicked off life with not a bad standard of living but who, through a change in circumstances, have been forced into poverty. We are talking about a mobile population."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 603141,
      "EditedText": "I deliberately referred to \"drugs  . . and social exclusion\" in the document on our priority areas of work. Keith Raffan, who is unfortunately not here this afternoon, made the point clearly at the previous meeting: there is a dimension of the drugs debate that does not really get proper attention. That has been evident in recent weeks. Much of the attention has been on individuals' responses to and experience of particular drugs. The focus of this committee should be the causes of drug taking, why it is such a problem in communities, its impact—in the document I called it \"the collective impact of drugs misuse\"—and the devastation it causes. We need to examine the means communities have to respond to that. That is our emphasis: it is not on having a big inquiry or study on drugs. Much of that work has been done. John told us about such work at the previous meeting and I have some information about drugs misuse. I do not see drugs misuse as the focus of this committee; our focus is examining what is happening in local communities, on whether they have been given the means to deal with the problem and on strategies of prevention, care and rehabilitation. Some people will say that such strategies are in place, but when the situation is investigated on the ground, others will say, \"We're not so sure. There are other things that we need done.\" They can be critical of some of the services that are around. I would be keen for us to add that dimension to the public debate without necessarily considering the enforcement issues that are important to people. The Executive is considering issues surrounding enforcement that we may examine at some time. However, we shall begin by listening to what is happening in communities."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603143",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 603143,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 603152,
      "EditedText": "Although I understand the responses of the other committee members, I agree with Fiona. We have never had a genuine, open, honest debate about drugs in Scotland or the UK. No one has ever said, \"The following amount of money goes into the following communities because there is a drug problem.\"  We look at enforcement, law, health and attitudes—which is why we have just had a debate about what are legal and illegal drugs. Although this and many other committees touch on the subject, I agree with Fiona that there should be a separate committee on it. In that way, we can have a genuinely open debate, without fear, about the real problem with the drugs culture in Scotland and how it affects every section of society. To look at it purely in terms of how it affects the poor, which would be the responsibility of this committee, will deal with only one section of society and will not help us to find a solution. As I said at the first meeting, if someone has a choice between going on the new deal and making £1,500 a week selling drugs, and that person lives in Whitfield, Niddrie or Craigmillar, what choice will they make? We should be looking at that issue. Tommy's point was that we should have a proper debate about what drugs are. Nicotine and alcohol kill more people in this country than all the class A, B and C illegal drugs put together, but we separate them because they are revenue-building. To get a genuine debate, we need to take the drugs issue away from this committee, although we—and the health and justice committees—will touch on it. If we cannot even decide whether alcohol is a drug, or whether it is a kind of okay drug—unlike the other ones that are bad drugs—where will we go with our examination of the issue? It shows that there has been confusion and lack of honesty in the debate for many years; the time has come to deal with it properly.On the front page of The Sun today is a ludicrous, out-of-context statement by the member for Leith—not the member for Leith, sorry, Pollok. The Bishop of Edinburgh is being pilloried—"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 603156,
      "EditedText": "I was not suggesting that we keep the issue within this committee. As previous speakers said, it relates to the remit of every committee. Our role is to look at the impact of the issue on poverty and social inclusion. We are all experienced in that role, and will be able to come to grips with it. That is not to suggest that it is the only thing that we will look at—clearly there are other areas in the Parliament. Ultimately, committees have to report; when we and other committees—whether health, education or justice—come back with our reports on this subject, the Parliament should be able to examine them and come up with a strategy that deals holistically with the problem of drugs. It is not right to suggest that we want to look at one small part of it."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603157,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that I said that—that is an interesting interpretation."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603160",
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      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603163,
      "EditedText": "On the point of addiction, as opposed to drugs—"
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    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603166",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 603166,
      "EditedText": "We are all trying to achieve the same thing and we are all concerned about the drugs issue, including legal as well as illegal drugs, and their impact on deprived communities in particular. This is obviously a general paper; I suggest that for our next meeting we agree a more specific remit along the lines suggested. I also suggest that Margaret could agree with the conveners of the health and the justice committees what their remit will be on drugs so that we each know what the three committees are doing and do not reinvent the wheel. We could all focus on our particular areas and bring the work together at parliamentary level to complete the process. In that way, we could overcome the objections to a joint committee but at the same time achieve the cross-committee co-ordination that Fiona is trying to ensure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4069888+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 603168,
      "EditedText": "Will you also ask for clarification on what they are doing, so that we will not be at cross-purposes with each other?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 603171,
      "EditedText": "That is the point we are trying to make—that there are all sorts of dimensions to drugs. Enforcement is one of them and the Executive has—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4069888+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 603175,
      "EditedText": "No, I have not received any information specifically on that. I understand that Wendy Alexander will inform Parliament of the summary of responses to the green paper, \"Investing in Modernisation—An Agenda for Scotland's Housing\", and that the programme will emerge from that. I do not have any more information than that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 603176,
      "EditedText": "Stock transfers and housing partnerships are the priority and are the area in which we have legislative powers and responsibilities. Clearly, though, in the next six months or so, as a result of the green paper on housing in England and Wales, legislation on housing benefits that will affect Scotland will probably be proposed.I recognise that the issues that are before us should have priority in terms of time scale, but—we talked about flexibility—at some time, probably before Christmas, we will have to consider the housing benefit issue, as it runs through this committee's anti-poverty remit as well as its housing remit. I want to place it on record that we are agreed that, at the appropriate time, we will consider housing benefit reform."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 603183,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Tenants Organisation has contacted me and asked me to tell the committee that it wishes to bring to our attention its views on housing stock transfers. I have reassured it that, although it was not on the agenda today, we will hear it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 603184,
      "EditedText": "The question of housing stock transfers to which Robert Brown alluded is central to the housing aspect of this committee's work, and perhaps other aspects. Earlier, we talked about how we might define poverty. Many of Scotland's citizens are living in substandard housing conditions which are liable to deteriorate quite dramatically as the years advance. I know that there are different views around this table regarding the efficacy of housing stock transfers, but I think that I may be forgiven for saying that I do not necessarily agree. The whole question of housing stock transfers, what is likely to happen, and what the Executive is going to say about it, is at the nub of our deliberations and it must be looked at. We need more money in Scottish public sector housing—I think that we all agree on that. The argument is about where that money will come from. The public sector is not able to fund the improvements that we would like. There will not be a unanimous view around the table on that, but I suggest that consideration of the matter by the Executive must be accelerated. We must know what we are doing. If the funding is not to come from stock transfers, then we must seek another source. We would not like the situation of those who live in the peripheral schemes of our cities to deteriorate in the way that is likely to happen unless that money is found."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 603185,
      "EditedText": "There are many dimensions to this question, and you are right about housing stock transfers. There may be different points of view, but I think that we want to hear the arguments."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603186,
      "EditedText": "Of course."
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  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603188",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 603188,
      "EditedText": "It is important to remember that, although a large chunk of the voluntary sector deals with the issues for which we are responsible—social inclusion and housing—a substantial part of the voluntary sector deals with other aspects that are of equal importance. As Fiona suggested, our discussions on issues such as anti-poverty measures, for example, should involve voluntary organisations. But how do we deal with the parts of the voluntary sector that are not involved in housing and social inclusion? Voluntary organisations are involved with everything from economic development to education to mental health. Some guidance from SCVO on how we could include them would be helpful. From information I have received from SCVO, I believe that the voluntary sector is concerned about general issues to do with the registration of voluntary organisations and other aspects of law that discriminate against voluntary organisations or that do not provide for their needs. Those are areas on which we might be able to concentrate under the voluntary sector part of our remit, but we would want to have guidance from the umbrella organisation."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 603189,
      "EditedText": "We should begin discussions with SCVO. We will ask them to host a seminar to bring us all up to speed on the issues before we set an agenda.You have a lot of experience in the voluntary sector, have you not, Robert?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603191",
    "Meeting": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603191,
      "EditedText": "Karen, you have a special interest as well, have you not?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ContributionID": 603197,
      "EditedText": "That is okay. We will get that going very soon, I hope."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603199",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 603199,
      "EditedText": "Yes, if any ministers have a direct impact on the work of the committee, we should request that they attend. Sorry, am I misunderstanding that point?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603201",
    "Meeting": {
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes, that would be too much."
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  {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 603202,
      "EditedText": "Leave that with us. I take it that Wendy Alexander is the main person that we would wish to see. If we had more detailed questions about the role of the voluntary sector, for example, we could ask the other ministers as appropriate. I shall start with Wendy.I want to move on the national anti-poverty strategy. How we take that forward will be difficult because there are so many different dimensions. I take on board the points that were made earlier about that. Alex, you can write to Alistair Darling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 603207,
      "EditedText": "In the housing section in your paper, Margaret, you suggest that a couple of reporters come back to the committee with a proposal. In the case of the anti-poverty strategy, under your chairmanship, perhaps another couple of members as well as you could report back. It would help to create a consensus about the work programme. We do not want to spend much more time discussing the work programme, but to get into the nitty-gritty of it. It might be useful to have a small group, with one member from each of the parties, agreeing on the proposals, to expedite the work of the committee."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 603208,
      "EditedText": "Yes, let us get it started and see how it goes. Is everyone agreed to that? Members: \"Yes.\" I will convene the group, and perhaps Lloyd will take part. Bill, you do not have much choice about it."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603212",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 284.0,
      "ContributionID": 603212,
      "EditedText": "It is ad hoc, a one-off, just to take us forward. If we include Karen too, that will get us moving."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603214",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3349
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ContributionID": 603214,
      "EditedText": "Can we agree that we initiate a short-term inquiry into drugs?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 603223,
      "EditedText": "There are two concepts here: one is to appoint a reporter to develop ideas and so forth and the other is to have an expert adviser to the committee."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "We need at some point to discuss the role of expert advisers and suchlike. We have the power to appoint them and I am sure that we will do so when we get down to the nitty-gritty. The role of a reporter is different from that of an expert adviser—we are asking one of our members to take on a specific responsibility and to report back to us."
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603228",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 317.0,
      "ContributionID": 603228,
      "EditedText": "I nominate John McAllion, largely on the basis of his experience in housing issues and of the all-party Scottish group in the House of Commons in particular."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 329.0,
      "ContributionID": 603234,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that has been decided. I understand that the Parliamentary Bureau will make that recommendation and that arrangements are being negotiated. The Parliamentary Bureau will meet tomorrow and, although I do not know whether the question will come up, I think that discussions are being held about it. I will report back when I am properly informed about it. We should move forward—it is 3.45 pm. We have two nominations—John McAllion and Fiona Hyslop—and I think that we should have one reporter."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603235",
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      "ID": 3349
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 331.0,
      "ContributionID": 603235,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Mike's point that, at some stage, we will probably have reporters on other issues. The committee consists of only 11 members, so we would not stretch very far if we were to break up into groups. If at this early stage we establish that there should be two reporters, it might be difficult to pursue that practice in future. I suggest that we have one reporter, and I support John's nomination. Moreover, I suggest that when we appoint reporters to an issue, they should not be their party's spokesperson on that issue."
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  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603240",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 341.0,
      "ContributionID": 603240,
      "EditedText": "I hope that any member reporting on an issue—whether on housing or on social exclusion—will work with the committee and have discussions with us throughout."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603243",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 347.0,
      "ContributionID": 603243,
      "EditedText": "The reporters will be dealing specifically with the work load and will come back to the committee—they will not be taking any decisions and will not have any real power. I hate to say that, John."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603245",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 351.0,
      "ContributionID": 603245,
      "EditedText": "Now, now, John. As I have said, any decisions will be taken by the committee. If committees decide to appoint a lot of reporters, debates about party loyalties will invariably arise. Rapporteurs on the European model have much more power than our reporters will have, but we will examine that issue. We are just starting out and this is just to let us make progress on the issue of housing. John, you will be formally charged to bring a report to a future meeting of the committee—we will decide on that in a minute—and you will do that with Fiona's assistance.I think that we have agreed on the items about the voluntary sector and the rolling programme of meetings and we have made a start on how we should deal with the work of the Executive. Thank you; it was hard to get through that substantial piece of work and I am grateful for the committee's co-operation—it was a nightmare drawing up that paper from a long list of issues. One issue that we have still to examine is the time scale for managing the programme of work.I want to move on to the items that will come up in the meeting of the committee of conveners, because they will have a bearing on our schedule of meetings. I will ask Martin to draw up a draft list of meetings with key organisations. It is just bad timing that the committee of conveners is to meet tomorrow afternoon; it would have been better if that meeting had happened before this meeting, but that's life. Tomorrow's meeting has a substantial agenda and I will flag up one or two key issues to be raised. I am not sure of the protocol of doing that, but I want to give you a flavour of what the conveners will be doing and to get your views so that I can pass them on. The following are suggestions, not decisions—however, some papers ask us only to note their contents, not to decide on them, so I think that some matters have already been decided."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 353.0,
      "ContributionID": 603246,
      "EditedText": "Is tomorrow's meeting an open one, Margaret?"
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  {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 357.0,
      "ContributionID": 603248,
      "EditedText": "Will any decisions be made at the meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 603253,
      "EditedText": "I have opened up the agenda for the first time, so I will have to read it tonight before I go to the meeting tomorrow. The first paper deals with the purpose of the group. I am sure that there will be a debate about that. It is important that the committees of the Parliament establish their independence from the Executive and the whipping system.Even in Westminster, which we all deride in our speeches, the committees are entirely independent and their conveners decide the business. The Government has no input, although the whips unofficially try to fix things from time to time—but they are up against it as the conveners carefully protect the independence of committees. We must start on that basis here and make it clear to Sir David and whoever else would like to take power that that is not on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 603264,
      "EditedText": "There may be a restriction on the money that is available, but it is clear—for example in the consultative steering group report—that the Parliament has been established on the basis that travelling to meet and consult people is part of the way our work must be done."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 603265,
      "EditedText": "There is a lot in the CSG report that has not been stuck to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 603266,
      "EditedText": "The CSG report was accepted, and it contained the principle that committees should be able to travel, so we have to ensure that this and other committees push ahead with that principle, within the resources that are available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 400.0,
      "ContributionID": 603269,
      "EditedText": "I should not say Edinburgh; I should say the Parliament. They are not synonymous. We need permission in terms of costings, even if we go to Pilton."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603271",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 404.0,
      "ContributionID": 603271,
      "EditedText": "We need to get in very quickly with the idea that the committee may want to move, and make the point that if we have to travel to, for example, Dundee, it should not cost a fortune."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603274",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 410.0,
      "ContributionID": 603274,
      "EditedText": "A scheme is to be drawn up for the payment of witnesses who give evidence. It is likely to be based on the scheme that is operated at the House of Commons, and would basically be travelling expenses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 414.0,
      "ContributionID": 603276,
      "EditedText": "The convener said that we have to ask permission of the Parliamentary Bureau if we want to go out of Edinburgh. In Westminster, the committee chairs make that decision—and the decision of who gets what money—not the bureau or anyone in the establishment. It is important to ensure the independence of committee conveners so that they, and not the bureau, make the decisions and set the priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 418.0,
      "ContributionID": 603278,
      "EditedText": "We have to be careful about saying that because they do something at the House of Commons we should do it here, but if the conveners group is to have a function, and if a certain amount of money is to be allocated to it, I suggest that the allocation of that money should be decided in that group. That is an issue that I want to raise in the conveners group tomorrow."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 420.0,
      "ContributionID": 603279,
      "EditedText": "That is to be endorsed tomorrow. I just wanted to give members the opportunity to raise any points that they wanted to. Members know that the meeting is on tomorrow and that we can raise their points. The meeting slightly muddies the waters as to when we next meet. I asked Martin earlier, but I do not think that we can set a time for the next official meeting until after tomorrow's meeting and the formal rota of meetings has been agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 424.0,
      "ContributionID": 603281,
      "EditedText": "Can we not set a provisional date, subject to that decision?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 426.0,
      "ContributionID": 603282,
      "EditedText": "There is a problem—Cathie already has a clash with her other committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 442.0,
      "ContributionID": 603290,
      "EditedText": "Realistically, a week's notice is quite short."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 452.0,
      "ContributionID": 603295,
      "EditedText": "Are we talking about fortnightly meetings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 603250,
      "EditedText": "I think that that raises a fundamental issue about how the Parliament works. What powers has the committee of conveners to make decisions and how many of its decisions will be referred back to the Parliamentary Bureau?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.0585835+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 428.0,
      "ContributionID": 603283,
      "EditedText": "If we are going for Wednesday mornings, and if we want to start things moving, is there any harm in our meeting on the morning of Wednesday 1 September?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.0585835+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 603158,
      "EditedText": "The heat that the issue is generating in this committee shows how strongly people feel about it. I agree that this is the missing part of the debate, but I am concerned that if we proceed alone, the impact of what we come up with will be less impressive than if we worked collectively with the health and justice committees.I also have a point about how we can go about this. Some members of this committee, as Mike indicated, are also members of other committees. If some MSPs can be members of two committees and deliver their work, others should be able to do the same. I suggest that if we nominate a number of members of our committee to go on a cross-committee drugs working party, we can deliver. There are, I think, three members of the sub-committee of conveners here; they can deliver the strong message that we can work on this collectively.This is the missing part of the debate and it is absolutely essential. I am not negating that, but to ensure that it has the impact that it undoubtedly should have, we must include our colleagues from the justice and health committees. Otherwise, the issue will be compartmentalised and drugs will become another jigsaw, with the social side having to fit in with the justice and health sides. If we act collectively, that will be more effective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 603194,
      "EditedText": "I would like to clarify something before we do that. I understand that our previous agreement was that, after having read the statement from the ministers, we would ask for an early meeting."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603093",
    "Meeting": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 603093,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we move on through the paper. It is important to stress that, although this committee was the last to start, we are now meeting for the third time. We have had our briefing and have agreed that one of the first matters that we should decide is a Scottish definition of poverty and how we should deal with it. That is a good thing for the committee. Margaret Curran talked about the committee showing energy and moving forward—we have sent out a strong signal by agreeing that we are prepared to consider a Scottish agenda on poverty. When we get to the meat of the issue, we can talk about how we measure and define poverty so that we have an understanding of the way forward."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603102",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ID": 1773,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 603102,
      "EditedText": "That can be raised when we discuss housing. I have been through a number of the summary responses to the green paper on housing and my concern is that, by the time we get the official report on them, we may have missed the boat on some of the current stock transfer issues. We need to discuss issues such as whether Glasgow will have a single-landlord system or a multi-landlord system and whether it will have a single ballot or multi-ballots. I am concerned about the time scale during which this committee examines those issues and the time scales of the real world—those things will be happening in September and October and if this committee is to be relevant and pertinent we must not miss the boat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.3030692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 603124,
      "EditedText": "Thank you for setting out a programme and suggesting how we should work our way through it. We are the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, and I think that there are some concerns about the voluntary sector. The work programme identified the importance of our dealing with the voluntary sector. Instead of hiving off the voluntary sector in a separate work programme later, we could include in this area the voluntary sector's provision of services. We might get a more useful analysis from it about what prevents it from delivering on issues to combat poverty. That would engage the voluntary sector at the heart of our work instead of dealing with it separately."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.3030692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 603078,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that everyone sends him their best wishes.I formally open the meeting and welcome everyone who is here, particularly the members of the committee, who look refreshed and happy after these wonderful summer holidays that the press tell us we get. I do not quite share the press's view on that.I welcome other members of the Scottish Parliament who are not committee members, but who have joined us today. We welcome their interest in our work. I would also like to welcome those people sitting in front of me in what is called the public gallery. We are pleased that there is such interest in our committee. I am sure that we will be meeting many of those people in the future.Everyone should have a copy of the agenda in front of them. There is a substantial amount of work for our attention this afternoon. We have some time to go through the agenda and there is no need to rush. Interruption. Public acclamation so early?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603080",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 603080,
      "EditedText": "It is a shame that they are outside and not in the meeting.We have time to have a full and proper discussion today. Before I move on to discuss our priorities, which are of great significance to everyone, I would like an early indication of other points that members might wish to raise so that we can add them to the agenda.As no one wants to raise anything just now, I shall plough on, and members may raise matters during the meeting.For the benefit of everyone here, particularly for the members who have not taken part in the committee, I will explain the context in which we have made the recommendations for our priorities. At the first meeting of the committee, we had a fairly full, but meandering, discussion about our priorities and the issues that needed to be brought to our attention.Since the Parliament first met, we have been lobbied quite strongly by various organisations and interest groups about what they consider to be the work of the committee. Many people have raised issues for our consideration. We felt that there was a need to order our work and to manage it effectively, and the paper that I have written is an attempt to do that. At the last meeting, it was suggested that I come back to the committee with a paper. That paper is based on the discussions that we had at our first meeting and on the ranking order that was decided at our informal meeting.I ask the committee to turn to the document, HS/99/2/1, which Martin Verity, the clerk to the committee, has produced. The paper is based on the ranking that we were asked to suggest. Although not every member of the committee contributed to the ranking exercise—because of illness or because certain members did not receive the papers or for another reason—we thought that it was appropriate to set the document before the committee as it provides us with a base from which to work.Many issues arose as a result of the ranking exercise. I have stressed in my paper, and I would like officially to record, that we do not regard the issues that do not appear on that list as unimportant. I think that I speak for all members of the committee when I say that. The issues on the list are merely the ones that the committee thought it should deal with initially."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603086",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 603086,
      "EditedText": "If I may say so, convener, we should not be arguing about the detail of the strategy."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603088",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 603088,
      "EditedText": "Two areas that are central to any discussion about the causes of poverty and, more important, about how to eliminate poverty are unemployment and benefits. Anyone who has studied the subject of poverty will know that poverty and unemployment go hand in hand. We cannot examine poverty and raise expectations about tackling it without considering the related issue of the need for a serious programme to tackle short-term and long-term unemployment.We must also examine benefit reform, because it would be difficult to pursue a successful policy of eliminating poverty in Scotland while receiving benefit cuts from London. We need to investigate the relationship between welfare reform and our attempts to deal with the fundamental issues of poverty. I do not want to make too much of a party political point, but anyone who examines the matter objectively will recognise that the issues of employment and benefits are central to the relief of poverty. Those are reserved matters in terms of legislation, but, if we are really serious about an anti-poverty strategy, we need to examine such issues."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C603089",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 603089,
      "EditedText": "I apologise if I missed this issue being debated at an earlier committee meeting and it has already been discussed. One of my concerns early doors about this committee was that while it was worthwhile to talk about poverty and have a national strategy on paper, what had the committee accepted as a definition of poverty? How many people in Scotland suffer poverty? What ideas has the committee had about setting realistic targets, which we can use to assess the success of the Parliament in raising people out of poverty? The committee may have accepted a definition of poverty already, but there is nothing in this paper that tells me what has been accepted as a definition, how many people in Scotland suffer from poverty and what targets we are setting for each of the coming years so that we can assure people outside this room that we are more than a talking shop. As Margaret Curran said, we do not want to be a talking shop but we will be accused of being one if we discuss those issues without setting targets."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603091",
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      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 603091,
      "EditedText": "It is important that the committee must set itself some guidelines as to the nature of its discussions, but we must also ensure that the achievements that the committee seeks to manage are measurable. I accept that there are many definitions of poverty. A document entitled \"Poverty in Scotland\", which I am sure that we all read, by Glasgow Caledonian University sought to highlight, underline and define what poverty was. I doubt if many of the members of the committee would fully agree with that document, although certain aspects of it did have some merit. At some stage, for our own benefit—and for the benefit of people whom we seek to assist—we must highlight what we define as poverty. It is against that definition that our success or failure will be measured."
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      "ID": 18271,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 603096,
      "EditedText": "We have been talking about the guidelines for the work programme but we have not mentioned the time scale. Is this work programme for the next 12 months or for the next four years? I would imagine that it is for the next 12 months, but could we clarify that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603097",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 603097,
      "EditedText": "That is for us to decide today. I did not want to do so because I thought that that might have been pre-emptive. My view is that the work programme is for the next 12 months. I certainly would not want to say that it was for the next four years—it would be a bit crazy for me to do that. The time scale will obviously be altered, depending on what sections of the work come back to us. If we can broadly agree on the issues on the agenda, I hope that we can talk about time scales at the end of the meeting.Let me talk to the work of the Executive. At our informal briefing session, it seemed quite clear that people were anxious that we should at an early stage have an indication of the Executive's programme. I recommend that we should write to the minister, or ask the minister to come to the committee, so that we can be informed about the Executive's programme. That would enable us to set our programme for scrutinising and responding to the Executive's work. We already know about the social inclusion networks and the green paper on housing, for example, but I am sure that there are other things as well. We want the committee to speak to the ministers and the departments to ensure that they set up both a programme of information for us and an opportunity for us to question the Executive. It is for us to discuss the ways in which we can inform ourselves about the work of the Executive, scrutinise it and comment on it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603100",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 603100,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we have a written statement prior to such a meeting. The minister can then by all means speak to us to augment that statement. We would thereafter have the time and the opportunity to study that document so that our questioning can, I hope, be more pertinent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603103",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 603103,
      "EditedText": "Immediately after this meeting, we will ask the minister for a statement, which we will have distributed to members of the committee. We will also request an early meeting with the minister on a range of issues.I will plough on if no one wants to stop me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 603105,
      "EditedText": "I would like to raise that when we come to discuss a national anti-poverty strategy.I welcome a rather rushed-looking John McAllion to the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603106",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3349
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 603106,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for being late. I made the mistake of using public transport."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 603108,
      "EditedText": "There are two lists of the various organisations that have said that they want some form of engagement with us. Is the suggestion that they come here to meet us or should we see the various projects in which they are involved at first hand? We could, perhaps, even question some of the people who are involved in the projects. Presumably there will be a different answer for different organisations. May I ask the clerk whether that has been specified?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 603109,
      "EditedText": "I understand that it has in some instances but not in others, as you anticipated. There has been a range of requests. Most of the organisations have said that they know that we are here and that they want to speak to us to bring their issues to our attention. They are waiting until we complete this exercise before making further requests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 603112,
      "EditedText": "That item relates simply to information that Shelter sent in. That does not mean that Shelter would not seek to meet the committee—I am sure that it would—but that that correspondence was simply a summary of the responses that it had received to the housing green paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603114",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 603114,
      "EditedText": "I have one more question regarding GPC Scotland, which is described in the briefing paper as being a \"public affairs consultancy, registering interest in work of committee and providing contact details of various client companies\".I have written to the Presiding Officer about responsibilities and to clarify whether people who are providing evidence to or being questioned by the committee are required to give information about their interests in the same way in which members have to declare their interests. If we decide to take evidence from a private sector lobbying company, for example, there must be some declaration of that company's interests. I am not deliberately looking at Mike when I say that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603115",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 603115,
      "EditedText": "But you are."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603119",
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    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 603119,
      "EditedText": "Following on from that, we need to tell organisations to be as specific and as focused as possible when they give us information. One rider I would add is that if any of us think that something is coming up, we should bring it to the committee's attention. It may benefit us to take a wee bit of time out to consider a slightly different issue so that when we have set a programme we do not miss other issues. Now that we have said that, the organisations of Scotland will be geared up to bring their issues to our attention. It looks as though we will be doing nothing but going to seminars and meetings."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 603121,
      "EditedText": "It is one of my roles as convener to engage with key staff to get an idea from them of what they are expecting from us and to tell them what we are expecting of them."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 603122,
      "EditedText": "We must also watch that we do not exclude people who have something slightly different to say, which does not quite fit our agenda but which we should nevertheless hear."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603123",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 603123,
      "EditedText": "That is what I was trying to say earlier. Thank you.Let us move on to the big issues that we are desperate to talk about—we keep jumping in on them. Those are the issues around the national anti-poverty strategy, under which heading I have put a number of items: jobs and social exclusion, housing and the voluntary sector and the work of the Executive, which I have added for obvious reasons. Lloyd Quinan can keep an eye on his point about fuel poverty, if he thinks that we need to ensure that that is included. The list is meant to initiate discussion; it is not meant to be exhaustive. It is meant to give only a general framework and an idea of where we are going; it is meant to help us to manage our enormous work load. I will start with the national anti-poverty strategy. We talked a wee bit about time scales, but there is no easy solution to the problem of how we manage our work load, because the strategy is at the centre of the work not only of this committee but of the Parliament. So much can come under this agenda. Schools, health and social work services could all be included in our work, because they have an impact on so much of what we will consider. This is not even the middle of a strategy; it is literally a beginning. I have tried to outline, on the basis of what I have heard in this committee, the areas that people want discussed. I will speak to that for a minute and then members can come back to me. I have categorised the issue into three broad frameworks. First, there is the national strategic framework, which includes the big debate about poverty proofing, the audit trail on spending, looking at some European models and debating with some of our Irish colleagues. I have done some quite interesting work and members have raised other interesting work. We have much to learn from that. Unfortunately, there is no need for us to go to Ireland or Australia to find out about these things, because much of the information is already available and I have asked the information service to start gathering some of it for us. There is no doubt that we can make a valuable contribution to the Scottish debate about how to take matters forward. I think Tommy's point about measures and targets would fit in with that. How do we measure poverty? How do we define poverty? One person's definition of tackling poverty is another person's alleviation of it. We need to make some clear statements about how we will take that work forward. I will let people come back to me on that.Secondly, the current arrangements need to be reviewed. That might sound quite boring after talking about definitions of poverty, but an important part of the work of this committee is to assess current arrangements. What is the Executive currently doing to tackle poverty? What is it doing in local communities? Are the social inclusion partnerships working? Is there something else that should be done? What is the evaluation of that kind of work? Funding is critical for local community organisations. For any form of regeneration strategy, we need to get into the minutiae of the issues if people are to feel that we are genuinely operating in their best interests. Wendy Alexander spoke at the conference I went to on Saturday. At the end, three of the earliest questions were about funding arrangements from local social inclusion partnerships or organisations. The issue is important and forms a big part of the agenda in Scotland. I am interested in regeneration strategies. It is not possible to talk about social regeneration without talking about economic regeneration. The problem with all the committees of this Parliament is that they overlap and would like to do each others' work. My plea is that we should focus on what we have just now; we can raise the other issues, as they present themselves, with the other committees. Finally, we must consider initiatives to combat poverty. There are many innovative initiatives in Scotland that we can support and continue to support. We can consider the ways in which we support the community and voluntary sector in combating poverty. I am sure that we are all familiar with various schemes such as food co-operatives, credit unions and schemes for micro-credit. We need to consider those important issues, which are the building blocks for tackling poverty. Credit and debt are huge issues in Scottish society. We need to investigate them and find out what recommendations we can make. I think that that is the work of 10 years."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 603127,
      "EditedText": "Passing on an issue such as employment, when we are trying to develop a national anti-poverty strategy, will leave a hole in the strategy. The point of a national anti-poverty strategy everywhere in the world where it is applied is that it is an over-arching policy structure. It is the management of policy whereby each and every department and committee is subordinate to the policy.If we accept that we want to develop a national anti-poverty strategy we must accept that there will be times when we are working in other committees' areas. It is our job to convince the other committees that for the benefit of the country and for the eradication of poverty we need a national anti-poverty strategy, which means that some people have to put their egos in the bottom drawer for a while. If we are going to talk about a national anti-poverty strategy let us be clear about what it really means: it means effectively taking elements of power away from the Executive, committees and departments. That is the only way that the policy will work. If we do not do that the policy will end up with gaps in it. We must decide on that principle at the outset, drawing on the experience of those in the rest of the world who have implemented such a policy."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603131",
    "Meeting": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
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      "EditedText": "Craigmillar, Pilton, Wester Hailes and Leith."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is not a party-political point: it is self-evident. However, we must tread carefully and try to take people with us rather than to score political points for Holyrood against Westminster. There is no point in doing that. John referred to articles in the media today about the stresses that are—I suppose inevitably—emerging. It is my understanding that we cannot demand the presence of the Secretary of State for Social Security at this committee, but we should ask whether he is prepared to appear before us. That would enable us to link our proposals with policies at the UK level. It is self-evident that the two must be linked. There is no question of our trying to pursue policies in a vacuum."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C603140",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SSP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 603140,
      "EditedText": "You obviously know how bad they are for your health."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603142",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 603142,
      "EditedText": "That establishes an interrelation with other committees. This issue is a relevant focus for our committee, but the health and justice committees also have a role to play. Is that something that you will discuss at the meeting of conveners?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603148",
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      "ID": 3349
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
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      "EditedText": "I agree with others that this subject is far too serious for us to play politics with it in any sense—whether playing to the tabloids or anyone else. However, I am concerned about the idea of an ad hoc committee comprising members of the social inclusion, health and justice committees. Such a committee would only go over the ground that the Scottish Affairs Committee at Westminster covered. There will be a debate about the medicinal uses of cannabis, which provide the basis for a legitimate complaint. Heroin and cocaine can be prescribed on the national health service, but cannabis cannot. The health committee will be interested in that. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee will be interested in drugs tsars and punitive regimes. The focus of this committee should be on the impact of drug abuse on poor communities.I believe that the impact of drug abuse on poor communities is different from the impact on better-off areas of Scotland, where people also use drugs recreationally—but they can hold down jobs without in any way being disabled by going clubbing and taking drugs at the weekend. That issue must be examined, but it is not the work of this committee to consider the impact of that kind of drug taking. We should be focusing on the impact of drugs on poor communities. I suspect that that impact is different, but nobody has ever established that. This committee must examine the impact of all drugs, including alcohol. We should not restrict our examination of this issue to the banned drugs; legitimate drugs probably cause more damage in working-class communities than even heroin does. We must look at those problems and highlight the different impact of drugs on poor communities and on the rest of society. The debate that dominates the press is not the debate about poor communities. The work of this committee is to focus on the poor and their problems and on how those problems can be dealt with.In Dundee, there is debate about Calton Athletic. Some people in power do not like Calton Athletic—they think that its \"Just say no\" message is too negative—but Calton Athletic may be the best hope for some people living in poor communities. We should try to establish whether such groups have a legitimate role in communities around Scotland. That kind of rehabilitation and support is available in Glasgow but not in Dundee. Those issues have to be addressed, but they will not be addressed directly if we go for a big ad hoc committee covering all the different committees and simply repeat the work of the Scottish Affairs Committee, which focused on whether cannabis should be decriminalised. Decriminalising cannabis will not affect the problem of drugs in poor communities around Scotland, and we should try to find a solution for such communities rather than for society as a whole."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603153",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
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      "EditedText": "What have you been up to, Malcolm?"
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 603154,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm's story is tomorrow."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603155",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
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      "EditedText": "The member for Pollok, Malcolm, sorry. You do look remarkably similar. We cannot have an honest debate about the subject because people live in fear of talking about the realities. If we keep it within this committee, we will not deal with the problem on a national basis. We need to deal with it root and branch and to get right down to the simplest questions—what is a drug and what is damaging?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603159",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 603159,
      "EditedText": "I have some sympathy with Fiona, but one of my concerns is that we could dither about indefinitely. If there is an argument at the conveners committee or among committees about setting up some sort of joint group, nothing will get going. The central part of what has been said here, on both sides, is that the drugs issue is wider than just drugs but is, rather, about alcohol and general addiction problems. If the details were to be widened a little to include some of the alcohol-type problems, we would have a fairly discrete subject.It will be useful for the committee to consider the subject, because there is a missing agenda that has not been focused on so far. At a slightly later time, once it has been discussed at the conveners committee—it is a little disappointing that that committee is only just meeting—"
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  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 603161,
      "EditedText": "There may then be scope for joining together the work that this committee and perhaps others have done and moving on with it. Something more overarching will certainly be needed at the end of the day.My concern is that if we do not make some moves now, the issue will be lost in the conveners committee while various arguments go back and forward. We have a job of work to do, even with our slightly restricted role. We should get on with that, widen the scope slightly and try to come up with something useful."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603162",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 603162,
      "EditedText": "That is quite helpful. If we move ahead, that does not preclude the idea of the Parliament setting up some kind of joint committee at a later stage. The reason why I would prefer to pursue it immediately is that I disagree with Tommy; I think that communities would tell us—they have certainly told me—that drug misuse and its impact are at the top of their agendas. All facets of drug misuse have an enormous impact on the way in which those communities live and their quality of life.The people in those communities have to have faith that we will take the issue to the top of our agenda and show that we understand the problems that it causes within the excluded communities of Scotland. If we could do that fairly quickly, we could have powerful statements—not just from ourselves but from the people in those communities—to take to the joint committee. To address Fiona's concern, we could ensure that when the health, justice and education committees consider the issue, they will hear what the people who live with the problem have to say, rather than hearing the agendas of schoolteachers or health professionals, or of a committee of 10 MSPs sitting in a room.We are the people who can facilitate the arguments. This is the beginning, not the end; all we are doing is starting the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4069888+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 603165,
      "EditedText": "I agree with much of what Margaret said. The issue of drugs is very important to many of the communities that we represent. We had a death in my constituency on Thursday, which has shocked Airdrie because we have realised that the problem of drugs is not isolated within certain communities in the constituency. The death happened in the shopping precinct in the main town centre.Many people who are following the committee's work will feel that we have missed an opportunity if we do not include this issue in our programme of work. Certainly it is something that the Parliament should look at, but we have a chance to start that work and to take the lead. It is an issue that people in my constituency are constantly talking to me about, and I am sure that is not unique. It is a burning issue for communities across Scotland and I do not want us to miss the boat. We should be taking the lead and pushing forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4069888+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 603169,
      "EditedText": "I wonder whether the idea of a joint committee of 10 MSPs is an alternative to Charlie Kennedy's call for a royal commission. Is it the Scottish equivalent?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 199.0,
      "ContributionID": 603170,
      "EditedText": "If I remember correctly, Angus MacKay made a statement about the formation of a drug enforcement agency and a new great plan that the Executive has. Surely a first step would be to ask him to come and tell us what the intentions for it are and what our role would be in scrutinising what it is doing. For the Executive, will drugs issues be led by a law and order approach or by Cathie's concept of a holistic approach?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4069888+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 603173,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that it does. With respect, I think that means the opposite of what we are saying. As I understand Lloyd's argument, he is saying that there are clearly enforcement issues around drugs, and health and education issues—which the entire Parliament and different committees have to address. What we are saying in this committee is that there is an often misunderstood dimension of drugs in relation to poverty, the social causes of drugs problems and their impact and, I would also argue, our inability to date to tackle the drugs epidemic—or whatever language we use—effectively and to put in place effective services. Other solutions and strategies must also be in place. To me, the starting point is the local communities—let us hear what they have got to say and what the real problems are; let us ask them for their strategies. Perhaps at that point, when that inquiry is completed, we could suggest an angle on enforcement that the Executive has not yet looked at, which we could try. The starting point has to be the communities, their experience, the scale of the problem as they see it and listening to what they have to say.We need to move on. We have not started to discuss housing and it is nearly 3.25 pm. It goes without saying that housing will be a huge issue for us to consider; it has already featured prominently in our discussions. I have tried to come up with a recommendation that will help us to move forward. Housing is the area in which we are most tightly tied to the Executive programme, as we will have to scrutinise its work in that area much more closely than in others, in which there is scope for us to be more creative. There is more of a timetable implication and more of a legislative role than in other areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4069888+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 603178,
      "EditedText": "It is a bad moment to make decisions about housing, simply because the responses to the green paper have not yet been published and the Executive has yet to announce when the responses will be published. We will need time to read them and to understand what people across Scotland are saying about the future of housing.It is not just this committee that must consider housing benefit changes. The Scottish Executive will be very interested in what housing benefit reforms are proposed at Westminster later this year. In any case, the Scottish Executive will not be able to bring forward legislation until it knows clearly what housing benefit will be, as, obviously, the shape of Scottish housing in the next century will depend on the housing benefit system, on access to it and on how it can support rents and finance in housing. The Scottish Executive, as well as us, is a wee bit hamstrung at the moment because of the delay in publishing the proposals for housing benefit reform. No one in the Scottish or Westminster Parliaments would argue that we could debate housing without discussing housing benefit. Housing benefit is sustaining the social rented sector. If housing benefit is changed radically, housing in Scotland will have to be changed radically as well.The convener's proposal that we take time to bring together a work programme on housing is the best idea. We need time to study the recommendations and to ask the Scottish Executive what its proposals are. We should also wait to hear what is said at Westminster about housing benefit. Until all the pieces of the jigsaw are put together we cannot argue sensibly or coherently about what should happen to housing in Scotland. Therefore, the best idea is to set up somebody to bring back a programme of work and to take us through all the different stages, so that we are able to keep in line, step by step, with developments in the Scottish Executive and at Westminster, and with what people in Scotland tell us. Stock transfers will come up at the same time, so there is no reason why we cannot ask people who are involved in the stock transfer process to talk to this committee. We need a structured programme that goes progressively and rationally through the shape of housing in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 603179,
      "EditedText": "When I made that suggestion, it was not to preclude an early debate of current events. It was to enable us to manage the work programme sensibly and to get a strategic view of housing and how the issues connect."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 603181,
      "EditedText": "If we have some flexibility—although we have so much work to do that we will not have any—then we all know that if the Executive makes an announcement or if people want to make a submission to the committee, we will make every effort to address that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 603182,
      "EditedText": "I am also in agreement with the proposal, but housing stock transfers will catch us. It is a complex matter that is happening diferently in different areas of the country, and as a committee we must come to grips with it. That probably means that we must have briefings, not so much individual briefings from Edinburgh and Glasgow and other areas, but more in terms of how the committee should approach the question and what the criteria of judgement should be. We need to think through how we can pursue angles and get a proper critique to enable us to view decisions on this matter properly. Housing stock transfers have major implications. Someone talked about the next century, but housing stock in many areas will be of great importance over the next scores of years."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 603187,
      "EditedText": "We do not need to make a decision about the reporter now—I will keep that for the summary at the end—but we are agreed that that is how we will move forward.Earlier, Fiona Hyslop made the important point that we should engage the voluntary sector in our anti-poverty work. I think that it is very important that we should do that in the various categories of our programme. However, I have suggested that the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, the parent body, arrange a briefing for us. Although I know that a lot of us have experience of the voluntary sector, I am not sure whether we are on a level playing field."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 603190,
      "EditedText": "The citizens advice bureau has been my area.There is a wide range of voluntary bodies—we receive 30 or 40 communications a day from them—who do not always share a sectoral interest, so it is right that we consult SCVO."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 603193,
      "EditedText": "At some point, we will have a profound discussion on that difference. I know where I stand on the issue.We will also have to look at the ministerial programme of action that the Executive will announce.There is a degree of consensus in the committee. I will ask the clerk to draw up a programme, which will include the seminar with SCVO. We will write to the relevant ministers—probably Wendy Alexander and Jackie Baillie and perhaps Frank McAveety, if there is a housing aspect—and request a statement on executive action. We will ask for briefings on those ministers' work and set aside time for a programme of work based on that.I will now go through the list of recommendations so that we can make formal decisions on them."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 603196,
      "EditedText": "There will be several meetings at that time. I suggest that we schedule the meeting, but get the paper beforehand so that we can form our questions."
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  },
  {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 603198,
      "EditedText": "Can I ask whether that will include all three ministers? I think that Frank McAveety should be here, if possible. Although he cannot say anything definite, it would be good to know what is being thought about housing and to receive any information that is available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 603200,
      "EditedText": "The point was that it might be asking a lot to get them all here on the same day."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 603204,
      "EditedText": "That was a joke. Re-reading the Official Report, what seem like jokes in committee do not come across like that, so I should be careful about what I say."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 603205,
      "EditedText": "That is why we are in politics, Margaret—comedy."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 603206,
      "EditedText": "With the permission of members I will come back to the next meeting having talked to individuals in between times about proposals for taking forward the national anti-poverty strategy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ContributionID": 603209,
      "EditedText": "With all due modesty, I shall nominate myself."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603210",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "ContributionID": 603210,
      "EditedText": "Robert, I hate to say it, but you are in the same position."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603216",
    "Meeting": {
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      "EditedText": "At a later stage."
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  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 603221,
      "EditedText": "Is a reporter the equivalent of the European rapporteur?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ID": 1820,
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    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 603222,
      "EditedText": "That is the debate. It is and it is not. The idea of a reporter is equivalent to the rapporteur, but we can develop that idea as we like. I am suggesting that we should not be too hide-bound, but should do what we want and let people stop us if necessary."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 313.0,
      "ContributionID": 603226,
      "EditedText": "That is for us to decide. I suggest making an appointment now in order to get started; we can look again at the role of the reporter once the work is completed. It is not worth getting too caught up on that member's role. We want someone to get the work under way; they can come back to us with their proposals for a work load, having knocked some of it about. We will know whom to talk to about a particular issue. There is an issue about managing the agenda. There are sensitive issues around housing and the agenda will give the committee a focal point. Although appointing a reporter seems a sensible way of managing the work load and of getting us started, I do not think that we should appoint a member for the lifetime of the committee. They might not want such an appointment and we might not want them to have it. Moreover, the role of the reporter is probably going to change, given the way in which the Parliament is bound to evolve. I recommend that we get started. Interruption. The clerk has just told me that we can put a time limit on the member reporting back to the committee. I recommend that we agree the nomination of a member today, get them started and ask them to report at the next meeting on how they are pursuing their work. We can decide when we discuss housing, which is bound to come up somewhere along the line, whether that member should continue. Do members wish to nominate someone? Is any member particularly interested?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 315.0,
      "ContributionID": 603227,
      "EditedText": "I nominate Fiona Hyslop."
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  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 319.0,
      "ContributionID": 603229,
      "EditedText": "Is there anything wrong in having two reporters working together and coming back with one report?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 323.0,
      "ContributionID": 603231,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is probably better to have one reporter—and I do not say that for any reason other than that I have just come up with my suggestion for managing the work load. If it does not work, we can review our decision, but I think that it gives us a focal point—"
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 325.0,
      "ContributionID": 603232,
      "EditedText": "This is not a question of party political advantage—even if it seems that way. If we establish the practice of the committee having reporters, different members can be reporters for the different issues that we examine. This reporter will be for a housing matter, which we are examining in our initial programme. In other programmes—and, indeed, in this programme—there will be other issues for which we may wish to appoint a reporter. This is just the first of a number of these appointments."
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  {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 603236,
      "EditedText": "We will cross that bridge when we come to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18271,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 603238,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem with that. I will be happy to work with anyone to make progress on housing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 343.0,
      "ContributionID": 603241,
      "EditedText": "We all have our party loyalties and there is no point in hiding them. However, I think that there is genuine co-operation in this committee—at least, we are all trying our best to co-operate with one another. Let us see how matters develop; we will deal with problems when we meet them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 345.0,
      "ContributionID": 603242,
      "EditedText": "Are the reporters dealing only with the programme of work at this stage? Issues of party balance arise from this point. If there is only one reporter, I feel that he or she should not come from the same party as the convener. If we have different reporters dealing with different issues, that is a different ball-game. Against that background, I am more than happy to go along with what has been suggested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 355.0,
      "ContributionID": 603247,
      "EditedText": "It must be, if it is a committee meeting of the Parliament.No, I tell a lie. It is an informal meeting; to allow informal and open discussion, it will not be recorded or televised. I remember seeing that written on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 603249,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but I think that the decisions will go back to the Parliamentary Bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 603254,
      "EditedText": "John will be in lively form tomorrow. Issues will be discussed that are important to us, such as the draft schedule of meetings, travelling in connection with committee business, issues about sub-committees and cross-cutting issues. I will raise the drugs issue and explain how we are beginning to work. Other issues such as the role of clerks will be discussed, which I will ensure members get some information about. This committee is scheduled to meet on Wednesday mornings. The schedule is only a draft document and our views on it will be taken tomorrow. Discussions are going on in the bureau about the management of parliamentary time. There are concerns that we do not have enough time and that we need to find more."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 603255,
      "EditedText": "For meetings of the Parliament?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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      "ID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 603257,
      "EditedText": "It is important to draw a line between meetings of the committee in the Parliament, which are scheduled for Wednesday mornings and the times when we go out to engage with the people of Scotland. Although we all have other things to do on Mondays and Fridays, it will obviously be easier to travel then. If we go any more than 20 miles from Edinburgh it will be impossible to travel on a Wednesday morning and be back for the meeting of the Parliament in the afternoon. We must take a decision to use Mondays or Fridays, albeit we must plan far enough ahead to allow members to fit committee business in with constituency business and other commitments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 603258,
      "EditedText": "We could have meetings on a Tuesday as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 603259,
      "EditedText": "Other committees will meet on Tuesdays, though. Another option, with due deference to those who have children—I do not—is that it may be possible to do things during weeks such as the period in October when the Parliament is in recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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      "ID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 603260,
      "EditedText": "The key issue is to get notice. That is a disaster area at the moment with no forward dates. If we have dates for meetings in advance it will work; it will not work if we are told about a meeting two days before it takes place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 603262,
      "EditedText": "Are we not getting ahead of ourselves by talking about meeting people and consulting people, as the last I heard before I went away last week was that there is no money to do that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 396.0,
      "ContributionID": 603267,
      "EditedText": "There is a schedule for tomorrow's meeting that considers the costs of committee travel and comes up with proposals. However, if we want to travel outside Edinburgh, we have to ask the permission of the Parliamentary Bureau.Incidentally, I can fantasise that those cheers coming from the festival shows outside are for us. They have put me right off."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 402.0,
      "ContributionID": 603270,
      "EditedText": "Or Dumbiedykes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 406.0,
      "ContributionID": 603272,
      "EditedText": "It should not cost significantly more than coming to Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 412.0,
      "ContributionID": 603275,
      "EditedText": "So there will be costs in bringing people here; it is not as if we save money—or spend no money—by doing that."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603277",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 416.0,
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      "EditedText": "I can clarify that matter because I have just looked more closely at the papers. Initial requests to utilise the travel budget should go before the conveners group. I think that that is better."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "C603280",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Martin Verity: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is correct."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
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      "EditedText": "That is just next week. Are we going to be much further forward? What about 8 September?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603286",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "EditedText": "Yes, we can do that. I was in a blind panic about trying to get work done for 1 September. That might be difficult, but if members do not have diary engagements, we could certainly have a briefing that day. I cannot see this meeting determining anything for 1 September."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603287",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 436.0,
      "ContributionID": 603287,
      "EditedText": "I am definitely committed on the morning of 1 September for the work of the Audit Committee, but if there were briefing papers that would be fine."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603288",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "EditedText": "It is probably a fairly tall order to ask anybody to give us a briefing by 1 September, but we could try."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603296",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "EditedText": "Yes. A fortnightly schedule has been recommended. We may play around with that regarding meeting in different places, and adding other meetings. That will need to be managed according to the work of the Parliament."
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  {
    "ID": "C603075",
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
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      "EditedText": "One member of the committee who is not yet present has indicated that he will join us later. I am also led to believe that Keith Raffan is quite ill."
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  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603077",
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      "ID": 3349
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 603077,
      "EditedText": "The poor man is flat on his back at the moment. He sends his apologies."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 603083,
      "EditedText": "I have an open mind on this subject and I am happy to put fuel poverty where you suggest, Alex. Given some of the Executive initiatives that are around, it may have linked into, and come up under, housing. We could put it into both strands, as we need to examine the warm deal initiatives and similar issues that relate to housing. However, I take your point that it may well have to be inserted under the national poverty strategy.I think that we will find that a number of issues fall into different categories and, rather than be too draconian at this point, if there is overlap between the work of those different categories, so be it. It is better to cover a subject twice than not to cover it at all. However we decide today to pursue the work that is reported back to us, we can return to this issue. Alex, you should keep an eye on that to ensure that we do not lose sight of it, as I think you are right."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603085",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 603085,
      "EditedText": "On that point, Robert—and I will be firm on this—there is experience from elsewhere in the world, such as South Australia, the Netherlands, Portugal and Ireland, where a national anti-poverty strategy has been applied. Indeed, South Australia started off by separating the issue into each particular section. It was discovered within a very short period of time that by isolating single elements, it was not possible to carry out a national, comprehensive strategy.My plea is for us to consider a comprehensive strategy, allowing each element to be part of that, and to move a concept of poverty proofing. The only way in which we can do that is through a national strategy. If we attempt to do it in a piecemeal way, we will find gaps and spaces and we will not have an effective anti-poverty strategy. We will have an individual anti-fuel poverty strategy, or—"
    },
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 603087,
      "EditedText": "Can I stop you, Lloyd, as we are getting into the meat of the paper itself, and your point raises one of the big arguments in this field. We should try to approach it logically as we work through the paper.I want to log with members the fact that these were the issues that emerged from our priority ranking, and to state that this is what we thought would be brought to our attention immediately and that we should deal with immediately. For example, the issue of housing stock transfers is not, I am sure, the only housing issue that the committee would wish to examine. However, that is what people's attention has immediately focused on, because of the context in which we are operating.I say to those people who have an interest in this committee that, just because a particular issue is not on our list at the moment, please do not think that we are not willing to listen to what you have to say just now. We will be examining other issues in the future. I hope that the paper has been constructed in such a way as to give openings for issues to emerge. At the end of the meeting, we will consider the context.I now turn to the paper, which members should have a copy of, and which I will work through section by section, so that we can discuss it. We will then discuss the committee's approach and make final decisions.I will start with the background. It is important to establish at the start of the work of this committee that we are profoundly committed to tackling poverty and exclusion within Scottish society, and that we see that work as a fundamental element of what the Scottish Parliament is about. In doing so, we must understand what poverty is about, and we must listen to those people who are the most excluded.The work of this committee is twofold. First, we have to work in partnership with those who are excluded and to hear their views on a wide range of issues, which implies considering mechanisms that will access them and will let their voices be heard. Secondly, we have to ensure that we properly scrutinise the work of the Scottish Executive and, where necessary, make independent representations to it. We have to see ourselves as the voice of those who are excluded from policy development. That is what is unique about the Scottish Parliament. We are charged with the huge responsibility of making that work, which will take up a great deal of our time, our energy and our abilities. Given the discussions that we have had in this committee, I think that, despite the ideological differences between us, there is a genuine, principled and deepfelt commitment to tackling exclusion across the whole range of social issues.I also think that there will be much lively discussion in this committee about the future of housing in Scotland. Many of us have dealt with the issue over the years and it will be at the very top of our agenda, part of which will include the need to access those who experience housing difficulties in Scotland. On Saturday, it was clear from a conference that I attended in Dundee with Scottish voluntary organisations and Dundee social inclusion partnerships that the Executive has a commitment to the voluntary sector. We have to approach the matter differently. By meeting face to face with people and by interacting with the voluntary sector, we can have a more straightforward dialogue and can begin to understand what the important issues are and to facilitate their development within Scottish public affairs and public life.I think that the work of this committee is central to the development of politics, of policy and of opportunities for public participation in decision making in Scotland. Many of us have long been committed to that aim and it is quite exciting to be near some level of power where we can try to make things work. I might live to regret saying that, but here's hoping anyway. I think that each committee member genuinely feels the same and we will make our decisions within that context. Some decisions will be hard and we will have to be ruthless in our initial prioritisation, but things are not cast in stone and we will regularly review the situation.At one point in the paper, I say that we need to build a degree of flexibility into our work, because we will need to deal with issues that might arise from the work of the Executive, from the community or from a member's bill. As time moves on, there will be all sorts of developments and we must have the flexibility to deal with them. I am sure that this committee has the energy to do that.Do members wish to add anything to section 1 of the paper for the record?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603092",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 603092,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that we should not define poverty and should not set standards as to how we measure our work and judge our effectiveness. What I am saying is that this paper is about setting a framework that allows us to do that and sets our work in progress. When we start the work of the anti-poverty strategy, it will hopefully tackle those issues."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603094",
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      "ID": 3349
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 603094,
      "EditedText": "May I say something before we conclude this part of the discussion? It is important before we start our work that we have a clear framework for the way in which the committee will operate and that we prioritise our work. Our work is so wide-ranging that it would be easy for us to scratch at the surface of lots of issues related to poverty and the causes of poverty without actually achieving anything. From the start, we must get right the way in which we operate. We can then consider setting targets, which is essential but which should be part of our drawing up a national anti-poverty strategy for Scotland."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603099",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 603099,
      "EditedText": "At our informal meeting, we were not sure whether we should get a written statement from the minister, which would mean that we could question her and not just hear her tell us what is being done. We want to use the opportunity to question and to scrutinise. I understand that ministers will make themselves available to us whenever we need them."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
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      "EditedText": "We will need to refer that to the transport committee. We are discussing page 3 of the paper.Henry McLeish wanted requests from outside agencies and individuals. I am sure that people will not have any profound disagreement with that, but I mention it to ensure that we make a decision on the subject and that it does not get lost. I would like the committee's permission to work with the clerk to manage sensibly the establishment of our own programme of meetings and seminars, which would depend on the needs of the committee, on requests from outside and on our work load. That will probably be a four-year commitment. It will be managed depending on what the issues are and so on."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603110",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 603110,
      "EditedText": "One of the organisations that responded was Shelter, but the report says only that it gave responses to the housing green paper. Does that mean that it only sent us a copy of its response?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603113",
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      "EditedText": "I hope that you all know that now everybody will be asking to meet us."
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  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603120",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 603120,
      "EditedText": "It is fair to say that the current list of responses is a bit arbitrary, in that it includes only people who have come to us. I assume that there will have been an element not of screening—that gives the wrong impression—but of the clerk asking, where there has been an approach, what exactly organisations want to make representations about. Perhaps he will give us a steer on how this all fits together and on when, and about what subjects, we should see particular people. There are far too many people to see in a shortish period—it is as simple as that."
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  {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 603125,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that we are half and half on the issue of employment initiatives, but it is important to note that the employment element has been missing from a number of projects that have not achieved what was expected of them."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603126",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
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      "EditedText": "When dealing with matters from which connecting issues arise, such as employment, it might be useful for us to examine the issue and recommend it on if it goes beyond our brief. We will return to that theme. If we talk to voluntary organisations about how to tackle poverty and they mention employment, we cannot say that that is not a matter for us because it is for another committee. We will examine employment in the context of anti-poverty work, but if our discussions become concerned with more direct employment strategies we can refer the matter on to the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee or the appropriate committee."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603139",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 603139,
      "EditedText": "There are also many dimensions of poverty, including discrimination. You, Cathie, know about women's groups and will give us information about them. I want to push on. We broadly agree, but will return to make absolute priorities at the end, when we look at the summary. Can I move on to drugs?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
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      "EditedText": "This area should be made clear rather than considered by overlapping groups."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603145",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
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      "EditedText": "Procedures for joint committees that could examine those issues are written into the papers for tomorrow. The feeling is that no more committees should be set up until the ones that are already established are working. Once those committees are working, that possibility could be considered. I would argue that we are considering only one aspect of the subject. If issues arose that were within the proper remit of other committees, we would refer them to those committees."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2225E229P541C603147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Sheridan, Tommy",
      "ID": 2225,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Socialist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tommy Sheridan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 603147,
      "EditedText": "I do not necessarily disagree with the principle that Fiona is suggesting, Margaret, although I hope that any committee will be much more focused than this one when it is established. I get particularly fed up with the use of the words drugs epidemic, with the treatment of drugs and social exclusion, and with all the talk about consideration of drug-related issues. What is it that we are actually talking about? Is it alcohol, tobacco, heroin, Temgesic or cannabis? When we talk about drugs that relate to social problems, alcohol and tobacco are at the top of the list—above heroin, which gets most of the publicity, above ecstasy, which gets the next most publicity, and above cannabis, which does not know exactly where to fit in just now.I hope, therefore, that we will approach the issue from a social point of view, asking why it is that people are taking drugs—whether to escape social problems or for recreation. There will be no  dialogue with a lot of people out there who take illegal drugs for recreational purposes. They think it hypocritical that others who take more damaging drugs, such as alcohol and tobacco, can do so legally and without criticism. I hope that we can establish an adult committee set-up that will examine the issue without worrying about tabloid headlines that will try to criticise people because they are looking at life the way it is rather than the way our moral guardians think it should be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 603149,
      "EditedText": "I agree with John McAllion. The incidence of alcohol and tobacco-related diseases and deaths is considerably higher in poor communities, so those drugs cannot be excluded from our work. I do not dismiss the point that Fiona Hyslop raised about the need to work strategically with other committees, but I can foresee problems in aligning the work of this committee with what the Health and Community Care Committee or the Justice and Home Affairs Committee may do. Their work may have an impact on our work, but they may not be in a position to join forces with us because they may be considering other matters. We have chosen the path that we want to follow, but other committees may not be going down a parallel road at a similar speed. I will be a member of the conveners group, as will John McAllion, and other members of this committee may also be there. However, the conveners group cannot drive the view of this committee. I accept the idea that Fiona Hyslop has outlined, but I think that it would be difficult to put into practice."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C603150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 603150,
      "EditedText": "I agree with what Mike and John have said. We must look at the effect of drugs on poorer communities. Linking up with other committees would widen the scope of our work, but we want to discover the facts about drug abuse for our poverty strategy report, and we must not lose sight of the point of that report. I am not saying that committees should not work together; we all want members of the Scottish Parliament to work together for the benefit of the people of Scotland. We need to show the impact that the misuse of drugs—alcohol, tobacco, or any other drug—has on poor people. John pointed out that it impacts more on poor communities than it does on other classes, who seem able to manage their drug problems because they have cash to work with. I resist Fiona's suggestion, although I agree that there are some points on which we should work together. Your recommendation, Margaret, seems to indicate that you would prefer a quick, short-term inquiry, so that we can look specifically at how drug abuse excludes people from our societies."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C603151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 603151,
      "EditedText": "I am a member of the Health and Community Care Committee. My contribution will be brief as I have to leave shortly, but I agree with what members of this committee said in earlier discussions. There are many issues that will be touched on by several of the Parliament's committees. The Health and Community Care Committee will be interested in the health aspects of housing, but that does not mean that this committee cannot look at the issue, too. Similarly, the Health and Community Care Committee's interest in drugs should not preclude another committee from examining the issue from its own perspective. We do not have to set up sub-committees for all the cross-cutting issues; that is neither practical nor necessary. There are lots of good ideas, but the one in the paper contains a dimension of the drugs debate that has been missing since long before the summer. There has been an individualistic approach to drugs. There are the crime aspects, but to relate drugs to social circumstances is central. Any work that the committee does on the subject will be valuable for other committees when they come to look at it and for the whole drugs debate. It is a brilliant and important idea—I hope that the committee will go ahead with it rather than wait until a sub-committee is formed."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 603164,
      "EditedText": "I think that it might be worth asking the group to consider that."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 603167,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to inform the conveners—however that is done—that we have decided that this is one of our top priorities and that we wish to look at and will move ahead on this dimension of it, but we wish to co-operate with them on other aspects. Is that acceptable?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603172",
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      "ID": 3349
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 603172,
      "EditedText": "The point I am making is that if we get Angus MacKay here and find out what the intentions are, that will clear the ground for us to do what Margaret is suggesting, which is to look at drugs in the context of poverty."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603192",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 603192,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Fiona that it is important that we consult the voluntary organisations that deliver services and tackle poverty, but we should remember that there is more to the voluntary sector than that. The sector expects the committee to consider issues such as funding, how organisations can cope with things like national lottery funding and the rolling programme and how they can exit from that programme. The issues that we need to consider are not just about how the voluntary sector delivers services but about how the groups within it operate. We should also bear in mind the difference between the voluntary sector and community groups. There is a difference between professional voluntary organisations and community activists."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603195",
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      "ID": 3349
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 603195,
      "EditedText": "Is it the view of the committee that we want an early meeting?"
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603203",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603203,
      "EditedText": "No problem."
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    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603211",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 282.0,
      "ContributionID": 603211,
      "EditedText": "What are we doing? Are we having one group for each subject?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603213",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 286.0,
      "ContributionID": 603213,
      "EditedText": "That is okay."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603218,
      "EditedText": "I will raise that at the committee of conveners. We are starting the inquiry, but we think that the other committees have a key role to play.With permission, I will take advice from Paul Grice about terms of reference and options for an inquiry, and return to the committee with a work plan.There seems to be consensus about having a reporter. I want to clarify what I mean by reporter. That is another issue that has come up in the papers for the consideration of the committee of conveners. My understanding is that, following tomorrow's meeting, we can appoint reporters and that we can decide their role. There is quite a bit of scope for that and I think that we should just do it. My recommendation is that we do."
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603220",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "EditedText": "The reporter must be a member of the committee. I am sorry, I should have clarified that point. The reporter cannot work outwith the remit or powers of the committee and must report back to us."
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 311.0,
      "ContributionID": 603225,
      "EditedText": "Is this a one-off appointment or will that member be the reporter on housing for the next 12 months?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 321.0,
      "ContributionID": 603230,
      "EditedText": "We had better ask Fiona and John."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 327.0,
      "ContributionID": 603233,
      "EditedText": "I wish to ask a not altogether unrelated question: is the committee to have a vice-convener?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ContributionID": 603239,
      "EditedText": "So there will be a reporter and a deputy reporter."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 349.0,
      "ContributionID": 603244,
      "EditedText": "That's why I have been nominated. Laughter."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 603251,
      "EditedText": "One of the points raised in a previous meeting—I think that John strongly emphasised it—was that all powers should not reside in the Parliamentary Bureau. It is important for the committees to establish their independence—ergo it is important for the committee of conveners to establish that it can take decisions. I hope that one of the loud and clear messages from everyone in this committee is that the committee of conveners should have a decision-making power. Obviously, we would need to consult the Parliamentary Bureau about decisions—and vice versa, as appropriate—but all power and all wisdom does not reside in the bureau."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 603252,
      "EditedText": "Wash your mouth out. My documentation says that the group will be chaired by one of the Deputy Presiding Officers, which will enable the conveners to feed their views into the corporate body and the bureau. I think that I will have to come back to members of this committee. Mike and John will be at that meeting tomorrow as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 603256,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That may encroach into Wednesday mornings. I am raising this issue because I would like to get a general feeling about how members feel about when and how the committee should meet. There is clearly a view that we should move out of Edinburgh at times and go to communities where we can meet key people. There are issues about travelling and how we manage the time. At our informal meeting we began to develop the view that we could perhaps set aside a whole day, for example a Monday, to meet outside Edinburgh. I know that that may cause difficulties for constituency business."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 603261,
      "EditedText": "The committee schedule takes account of members' commitments in terms of all the committees of which they are members. However, I warn members that the schedule is likely to change."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 603263,
      "EditedText": "That is my second point."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 398.0,
      "ContributionID": 603268,
      "EditedText": "Margaret, I think that we should travel within Edinburgh, seeing as how you do not know it very well."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603273",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 408.0,
      "ContributionID": 603273,
      "EditedText": "If we invite community groups, housing associations or whoever to come here to give evidence, the Parliament will presumably pay their expenses, so there will be a cost in bringing people here. Could the clerk clarify that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 444.0,
      "ContributionID": 603291,
      "EditedText": "We will have to wait for two weeks."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 446.0,
      "ContributionID": 603292,
      "EditedText": "In that case it will be Wednesday 8 September, and we will have to consider the rota. Members will have to bear with us: we have to go to the conveners group tomorrow to get permission, and we will ask that papers go out immediately to clarify matters.Will the committee help me out here? Would it be best to get papers out to committee members and to action the decisions that can be actioned? John can start on the work of committee reporter. We could organise a meeting of the anti-poverty group and we could process some of the official requests that we are making. That would not be a bad start. We have 12 months for our first stab at this."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 448.0,
      "ContributionID": 603293,
      "EditedText": "I would like to ask about the dates of meetings. Will you be able to give us a list of our programmed days shortly after the conveners meeting tomorrow?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603294",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 450.0,
      "ContributionID": 603294,
      "EditedText": "Committees are a wee bit ad hoc just now because the Parliament is just beginning to settle. My understanding is that once the conveners group has met and is formalised, committee meetings will become official meetings of the Parliament, with the same standing as meetings of the Parliament, and they will be in the rota system. We will have the powers to act differently within those meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18271,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 456.0,
      "ContributionID": 603297,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that a sensible pattern would be to have our regular meeting every second Wednesday and to have the meetings that we will hold elsewhere on Mondays or Fridays."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 458.0,
      "ContributionID": 603298,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and I am sure that there will be times when we will ask people to come to the committee. Groups will want that platform to make formal presentations to the committee, but we will come back to that. Members should look out for the formal papers from the central parliamentary system on the date of the next meeting. Until then we will pursue the work that we have agreed on.If there are no other comments I would like to thank everybody for attending. I look forward to meeting again soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 460.0,
      "ContributionID": 603299,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:07."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.4226173+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 440.0,
      "ContributionID": 603289,
      "EditedText": "If we want to use time effectively, we could do something fairly quickly on issues such as the anti-poverty strategy, drugs or the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:13.0585835+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 603215,
      "EditedText": "Yes, as long as that does not preclude collective working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:07.7769616+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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      "ID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 603174,
      "EditedText": "Has there been further clarification of what work the committee will be expected to do, and when the committee will be expected to do the work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:00:05.3389306+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603098",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 603098,
      "EditedText": "One of the suggestions was that we investigate suitable dates for the minister to come before the committee, especially to discuss some of the issues that we think are time sensitive, as some of the housing and social inclusion issues will be. To help us to put our work programme together, has the minister indicated any available dates?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.3030692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 603118,
      "EditedText": "We are considering having a rolling programme of meetings and seminars, which we all assume will suit the programme of work that we are carrying out. I suggest that, rather than our having general briefings, as I know some committees are, it is the duty and responsibility of all committee members to give themselves a general briefing and to take action. The briefings that we want as a committee should be evidence-based and relevant to the work issues and packages with which we are dealing. That would be the most productive use of our time and would allow the organisations that want to speak to us to get the most out of our meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.3030692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 603128,
      "EditedText": "Lloyd's points will be covered by our analysis of how we are addressing the issue of poverty and on how a national anti-poverty policy works elsewhere. For example, the analysis should identify how people have dealt with employment issues and how they have made progress. That may ensure that we do not lose track of the big issues of employment that are so relevant to poverty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.3030692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 23 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 3349
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Monday 23 August 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18271,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18271,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 603135,
      "EditedText": "It is interesting that we are meeting in the constituency of the Secretary of State for Social Security. It is obviously important that we forge links with him; I am sure that he, for his part, will want to forge links with us. We have indicated that we want that to be on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:48.3030692+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C231718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 285.0,
      "ContributionID": 231718,
      "EditedText": "The first point is just the principle that fishery-dependent areas should be those that are mostly in receipt of such funding. The economic output figures for those areas—my own part of the world is highly dependent on fisheries as an overall part of its economy—show that fisheries is the most important aspect to invest in for the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 296.0,
      "ContributionID": 231723,
      "EditedText": "The document on Community structural  assistance in the fisheries sector is pretty meaningless without further information. Its easy statement about the \"balance between exploitation and resources\"can be interpreted in certain ways which do not help the Scots but which help the Spaniards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 298.0,
      "ContributionID": 231724,
      "EditedText": "Narrow nationalist, Winnie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 300.0,
      "ContributionID": 231725,
      "EditedText": "The Spaniards are very good at looking after the small print. The fact is that we do not know what stage Britain is at with the multi-annual guidance programme. We need to know that before any of this makes sense. We would be entitled to ask for a note about what stage we are at with our commitment to obeying the strict rules on reduction of the fleet. Have we got there yet? I never seem to be told whether we have achieved it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 304.0,
      "ContributionID": 231727,
      "EditedText": "Those are relevant issues for the Rural Affairs Committee to consider in detail. Do we know when it will examine this issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 306.0,
      "ContributionID": 231728,
      "EditedText": "No, I have not had any feedback yet from the clerk or the convener. I just know that Alex Johnstone is aware of the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 312.0,
      "ContributionID": 231731,
      "EditedText": "I am interested in trying to learn something from these processes, but to be honest some of the gobbledegook and the cross-references in the paper are a bit lost on me. If we have a paper like this in future it might be useful to be given a short synopsis—even half a page—telling us what the main issues are. That would enable me to understand more about the wider implications. At some stage I would also like to find out more about the views of the people who contribute to this process. Understanding the outputs in the consultation process could help me learn for later. For example, I am aware that Aberdeenshire and Moray, two councils who are quite involved in this issue and have strong opinions on it, are meeting today to formulate the view that they will put into the consultation. I would like to understand some of the outcomes from that process so that I can be a bit more up to date with such issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 324.0,
      "ContributionID": 231737,
      "EditedText": "This is a question on a technical point and I probably should know the answer, but is a document such as this consultative draft in the public domain? For correspondence purposes it would help me to know. I was especially impressed by this document and wanted to give it to Dumfries and Galloway Enterprise as a template for something that it might do in future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 328.0,
      "ContributionID": 231739,
      "EditedText": "To deal with correspondence that we get on documents such as this, it would be very helpful to know to what extent the document is in the public domain and what we can therefore do with it or say about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Seminar",
      "HeadingID": 5970,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 5970,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 337.0,
      "ContributionID": 231743,
      "EditedText": "I am certainly quite prepared to listen to those who have not been Members of Parliament for Govan, Margo, but if you make your suggestion to Stephen we will take it into consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 5971,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ID": 5971,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 340.0,
      "ContributionID": 231744,
      "EditedText": "Stephen, is there anything that you would like to say on the forward programmes of the European institutions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 5971,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ID": 5971,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 342.0,
      "ContributionID": 231745,
      "EditedText": "Only to advise the committee that this was our first attempt at trying to collect some early intelligence on provisional agendas for future Council meetings and Commission work programmes in order to give a flavour, at this stage, of the kind of things that will be discussed.I would be the first to recognise that the document is far from complete and is of only broad use to the committee. I would certainly be happy to have any feedback from members on the kind of thing that they are looking for. It is an attempt to summarise publicly available information to give an idea of what is coming up in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 363.0,
      "ContributionID": 231754,
      "EditedText": "That might not be a bad idea, as we will come back to the subject in a later discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 5971,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ID": 5971,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 346.0,
      "ContributionID": 231747,
      "EditedText": "Most committees meet at least once a month, usually for three days. Most are public—there are only two exceptions to that, one of which is the budgetary control committee. A committee would not yet know its agenda for December, although it would know the agenda for September, and depending how it got on with its work that would settle October and so on. Usually, when a rapporteur is appointed, the first discussion is open and without any pieces of paper. The next time the committee meets there is a piece of paper and by then a date is set for amendments and there is another discussion. That is what happens in most cases, although sometimes there is urgent legislation that is short-circuited, when everybody knows that business will be dealt with more quickly. That is all disclosed in the copy agenda, which I will certainly ensure I get whether or not the committee does, because that is where the key lies. There is another key as well, which is each committee's proposal to the budget committee—if we can get that. It sets out what each committee is really dealing with in terms of its finance. That is where you learn the number of budget lines and where you see under which headings we could winkle in something good for Scotland. I chaired a committee once. It had a wide remit—culture, education, sport, tourism and information—and many budget lines. When we submitted the committee's demand to the budget committee in November, all the headings and what each budget line covered were explained. That is where we can see whether there is something we could apply for for the Highlands or Dumfries, for example. That is another type of document that we will not be sent, but it gives the answer to a lot of the questions about where we go as a committee to try to ensure Scotland gets everything that is going—because I assure you, the Irish get everything that is going."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 5971,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ID": 5971,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 352.0,
      "ContributionID": 231749,
      "EditedText": "We need to consider how we influence a number of things, at Westminster and in Europe. Some of it will evolve. Maureen mentioned MEPs. We certainly want to meet them and set up a liaison mechanism. It might be useful to get Dermot Scott, who is the European Parliament's representative in Edinburgh, to give us a presentation and to discuss with him and others from various institutions how we might use some of their facilities. There are a number of different ways we will look at that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 5971,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ID": 5971,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 354.0,
      "ContributionID": 231750,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the European Parliament's independent inquiry into the European Commission is due to report in September. I think we would want to see that report at an early stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 365.0,
      "ContributionID": 231755,
      "EditedText": "I would like to see a note of the European Scrutiny Committee's membership."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 391.0,
      "ContributionID": 231768,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry to take up more time, but I want to emphasise Dennis's comments. We have a time difficulty; if we do not manage to intervene before the decisions on the map are made, we have to take what is handed down to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 393.0,
      "ContributionID": 231769,
      "EditedText": "We have already agreed to invite Jack McConnell to our next meeting. At this stage in the agenda, we are talking about general background briefing notes that are not necessarily for discussion. You have already received some briefing notes that have not appeared on the agenda, which were to inform you and to help you to appreciate some of the wider issues. We have already agreed our tactics concerning structural funds. If we can produce a briefing note that gives a Scottish Parliament perspective on some of the main issues, we will do that. However, the briefing note as envisaged in the agenda is not the only way to obtain information that we need and that matter will hopefully be dealt with when the minister comes before us. We will ask whether we can be supplied with the key questions and information that Dennis spoke about, so that we can have a more focused debate with the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 407.0,
      "ContributionID": 231776,
      "EditedText": "With respect, Mr Henry, it would be most appropriate for us to meet the secretary of state because the UK Government will make the submission to the European Commission. I would suggest that this committee instructs the clerk to try to arrange meetings with Jack McConnell and with John Reid. It may very well be that we want to have the meeting with Jack McConnell before that with John Reid, but we are running out of time. If we are to have any influence whatsoever in the drawing up of the objective 2 map we must move very quickly indeed. We were told this morning that the proposal by the UK Government will probably be finalised next month. Next month begins in 13 days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231782",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 421.0,
      "ContributionID": 231782,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 13:01."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Wednesday 18 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 5965,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5965,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 231585,
      "EditedText": "I recently agreed to write a regular column for a newspaper; in my writing, I may touch on matters that are relevant to the European Union and the work of the committee. Other than that, I do not think that I have anything to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231588",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 231588,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. As the convener suggested, under standing orders rule 6.8.1 it is within the remit of the European Committee to consider and report on proposals for European Community legislation and its implementation. That is what we are calling our scrutiny function. A paper, which was circulated to members before this meeting, was drawn up by the clerks in response to a request at the first meeting that we look at how the scrutiny function might take place. I stress that it is a draft paper on working arrangements. It includes some suggestions from the clerks, but it is down to the committee formally to decide on the procedure. The suggested options have been developed over the past few months by the clerks, working in conjunction with officials from the Scottish Executive and clerks from the European Scrutiny Committee at Westminster. Our links to the Scottish Executive and to Westminster provide an important forum for your views in your consideration of European legislation. The key issue that we identified is selectivity, within which there are questions of timing and of depth. Timing relates to the period in which committee members will be able to deliberate on any item of European business so that their views feed into the decision-making processes at Westminster and in Brussels. The clerks will advise members on the time frame for any item of business. On depth, members will be able to consider items of documentation at different levels. The options available to members range from a cursory glance, through holding an inquiry and inviting a minister to answer questions on it, to taking evidence from external bodies. I remind members that we expect to receive approximately 1,200 documents every year. In paper EU 99/2/1 we have devised a twin-track approach to help members sift and prioritise a selection of those documents. Members have one fundamental choice for each document—to do something with it or to take no further action. It is at members' discretion whether a document is suitable for either category. If members decide to do something with a document, the question is how deeply they wish to scrutinise it and for how long. That is why we suggest a priority approach and a regular approach. If the priority approach is used, that does not mean that an item of business is more significant than one that is scrutinised using a more regular approach; it is just that we have less time in which to try to ensure that the committee's views are heard by the Executive and at Westminster and Brussels. Priority is a question of timetabling. Whether the committee decides to look at a document on a priority or a regular basis, it has to choose whether to examine the document itself or, if the document is considered to be detailed on fisheries policy or agriculture policy, for example, whether it refers the document to a subject committee for its considered opinion. The subject committee would then report back to this committee. If the document relates to an item that is significant to Scotland, it can also be referred to the whole Parliament for consideration. After those decisions have been taken, the clerks will ask the Executive to provide the committee with additional information that relates to policy and legal issues and that looks at the item of business from a Scottish perspective. As described in the annexe of paper EU/99/2/1, the Executive will supply the committee with additional information in the form of an explanatory memorandum. We will also inform the European Scrutiny Committee at Westminster about documents that this committee wishes to look at further. We have a working arrangement with the Westminster committee regarding items that we select for priority because they are of great significance to us or because the timetable is tight. As soon as we inform the Westminster committee, it will hold back on making its considered opinion until we have been able to deliver ours. That is an important point. I stress that that is a working arrangement rather than a formal one—it has resulted from some good discussions with officials at Westminster. It is entirely up to this committee whether it wishes to scrutinise documents itself, to have an inquiry or to request a ministerial briefing.To help with the process of scrutinising documents, the proposal is to have an initial sift before a committee meeting. In that sift, the convener and deputy convener—when one has been selected—will look through the documents on behalf of the committee and form a recommendation. A list of those recommendations and all the documents that we have received will be given to members well in advance of the committee meeting to provide committee members with some guidance on the initial thoughts on the document. In advance of the committee meeting, members will receive a list of every document that we have received, a list detailing the recommendations of the convener and deputy convener and copies of the documents that have been selected for further scrutiny. It is for the committee to decide what to do with each document at the meeting; there may be occasions on which the process is altered. There is a further safeguard—a set of all documents will be received by the Parliament's information centre and a list of all documents received will be published in the business bulletin. Any member of the Parliament can address this committee and ask for an item to be looked at further, regardless of the recommendation of the initial sift. The sift is a guideline process. It is for members to decide what to do with the priority document, the regular document or one on which no further action is required. If scrutiny is required, the committee will decide whether to carry it out itself or to refer the document to a subject committee or to the whole Parliament. Finally, there are a number of administrative matters to allow the clerks to deal with the follow-up. That is all I want to say on the paper, but I am happy to take questions on a factual basis. As the committee clerk, it is not for me to decide the detail; I merely give the committee some suggestions about proceeding with scrutiny."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 231593,
      "EditedText": "I think that the list idea is sensible: if we were all to be sent 1,200 or 2,000 documents a year, the system would grind to a halt. I wonder whether, in this age of information technology, those documents could be put on to the internet or on to the Scottish Parliament's intranet. That would allow us and our staff to access a particular document from the list. For those of us who are a little bit away from Edinburgh, that might be sensible.The guidelines and the criteria laid down in the briefing paper are sensible and suggest a useful way in which to proceed. I can see that timetabling is going to be of the essence. As we work together and gain experience as a committee, we will know what needs to be changed and what does not. Co-operation with Westminster is going to be crucial and I am pleased that proposals for that are in place. It will be important for us to monitor that co-operation; as we gain experience, I hope that we will develop and amend it as necessary. New technology might be helpful in that as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231598",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 231598,
      "EditedText": "Before I ask Stephen to comment, I will say that, because the timetable is determined elsewhere, we will occasionally have to ask committees to respond within a very short period. That is unfortunate but, rather than lose the opportunity, we need to filter things out and tell people that they need to look at matters in a hurry. Generally, however, David's point is well made: people need time to give adequate scrutiny to business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 231601,
      "EditedText": "If a matter is referred to another committee or more rarely—I hesitate to say that—to the Parliament, we have to advise the other convener, the other clerks or the whole Parliament of the timetable within which we would request them to report back to this committee to allow us finally to take a view. If a matter is to be referred to the Parliament, we would have to work closely with the Parliamentary Bureau to enable it to be fitted in. If the matter is of extraordinary importance and relates to a very short time scale, we would have to liaise with the clerks and the business managers so that it could be taken as business for the whole Parliament. We will have to advise the subject committees of timetables and dates and when they need to reply to us, in time for us to consider their views and get back to the Executive and to Westminster. There are systems in place, but we will have to monitor them when things have started to run; we will have to be flexible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231607",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5966,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 231607,
      "EditedText": "The pro-forma contained in annexe 2 is a suggestion by the Executive on how the Scottish explanatory memorandum would look."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 231612,
      "EditedText": "That is a slightly separate issue and we have covered it to some extent. You are right that there must be an early warning system; it is not enough just to wait until things come out. Certainly other committees will have to look at who will take the lead and how they pay attention to European issues. Bruce raised a specific point about whether the pro-forma should state whether environmental issues had been considered. There might also be other matters that are relevant to every committee. Given that it will be a standard document and every committee will have a similar page, rather than every committee having a debate about designing a form, is there a more appropriate route?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 231614,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to waste time today trying to design a form, because we will never get agreement. Is there somewhere we can send it to say that some things have been missed out and it should be looked at again?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 231617,
      "EditedText": "We could ask it to look at the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 231620,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we send the documentation back to the Executive and ask it to consider some of the broader points that have been made and to come up with another template for our consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 231624,
      "EditedText": "How we influence the process is worthy of discussion at some point. I am aware of the time, because we have other items on the agenda. Today we are talking about sifting documents that are received. Is this a useful mechanism for sifting such documents? I am happy for a future agenda to include an explanation to us of the process whereby Europe makes decisions and how we can influence that process. That would be a useful part of our learning experience as a committee. Let us have that debate, but now let us try to concentrate on the document."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 231626,
      "EditedText": "On the question that you raise about whether there are matters of no relevance to Scotland, at the first meeting I quoted a couple of examples in that category—Swiss watchmaking and something to do with Burma. If we start to say that all these matters will have relevance to Scotland, we will never get anywhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 231627,
      "EditedText": "That is helpful. I wanted to be clear that it would not cover reserved matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231631",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 231631,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to prolong this, but I am confused. I understood that our deliberations would be heard in Westminster at Cabinet level and that we would not necessarily have to go through the European Scrutiny Committee. I would be concerned if that were not the case as it would remove the possibility of there being a parallel system that would allow this committee to have a similar standing to the one in Westminster. I am sorry, Hugh, but I want to press that point. I asked a question at the beginning about whether this committee would be given the same standing as the Westminster committee as regards any parallel agreement. We need to understand how we feel about that issue and work out how hard we want to press it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 231635,
      "EditedText": "It is my understanding that Westminster means the Parliament rather than the Cabinet Office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 231637,
      "EditedText": "That would be fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 231638,
      "EditedText": "We would like that to be on the next agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 231642,
      "EditedText": "We might have to refer that to the Parliamentary Bureau because other committees have to meet as well. There is a suggestion that, because of the volume of work and the way in which the process works, we should try to meet on a Tuesday. However, that might clash with other business, so we need to be flexible. For example, some of us on this committee are also on the Health and Community Care Committee and are unable to attend some of that committee's business because we are here. It is a bit of a nightmare. We will return to the timing of meetings at another time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 231643,
      "EditedText": "I would have thought that the next item of business, a presentation by Jim Millard of the Development Department of the Scottish Executive, would have been worthy of a long and detailed discussion, but I am looking at the time and I am beginning to wonder when we will finish. Jim will outline some of the issues and try to brief us on where they stand.Before we start, I stress that this is not the only debate that we will have on those matters but the first of many detailed discussions that we will have in the next few weeks. As more information comes out and the decision-making process develops, we will have to make our views known, but today's presentation is about some of the broader matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 231645,
      "EditedText": "There will be questions and a discussion afterwards."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 231648,
      "EditedText": "I think you are right. I certainly need to understand what is meant by\"pressure in Scotland because of the general and relative wealth compared with areas in England\"which is on page 6 of the briefing paper on European structural funds. How are such judgments made? What sort of monitoring figures are used to compare wealth in Scotland with  different areas of England? If the minister is coming, will he come armed with answers to those questions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 231654,
      "EditedText": "We can certainly comment now, and later when we have analysed how this process has worked. We can talk about inadequacies and the things that need to be improved, but for the moment I would prefer to concentrate on making the arguments that allow the Government to give Scotland what we regard as fair in that process.I do not want a tome discussing what has not happened in the past few months to go to the minister, which would allow him to overlook the fact that we are discussing critical issues such as population coverage and the safety net and what areas will be critically affected.It is probably too late to influence the process now, but we should discuss the issues and, perhaps, invite some partner organisations in Scotland to give evidence on some of the difficulties that they have faced. If we do not get this right, we will always suffer from it in the future. We should therefore deal separately with the issue of taking evidence from organisations such as those that have been mentioned that are unhappy about the process, and concentrate on the issues that are to be decided in the next five or six weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 231651,
      "EditedText": "I am sympathetic to the point that Margo raised. My constituency of Cunninghame South—where 500 Volvo jobs are at risk—has exactly the same problem. If money is available and if we are going down that route I would want to make a case for that fact to be taken into consideration. In my area—which has the fourth highest unemployment in Scotland—those 500 jobs are tantamount to what is happening at Kvaerner."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 231652,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is valid that such areas of concern are raised, but we will not do justice to this committee if we ask what the minister is doing in terms of European funds every time something like that happens. There are other committees that have greater relevance to that pursuit. We must consider whether European funding is generally being properly and effectively used in areas of deprivation and industrial development. If we set a precedent of looking at every industrial closure, every voluntary group that gets European funding will ask us to become involved. We have enough on our agenda without assuming that responsibility."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 231653,
      "EditedText": "I accept what you say, Mr Henry, but I would like you to set out in your correspondence that the particular process of dealing with objective 2 applications has not been satisfactory. Areas that have submitted applications—I cite Dumfries and Galloway as an example—have not been clear about the time scales. They have put much effort into lobbying for their cases only to find that the time scales have changed constantly. As Margo said, that has led to negative speculation and double spin that says the situation is worse than it was originally and that we will get less than was expected but more than the spin said we were going to get. The process of dealing with the current round of objective 2 funding has been thoroughly unsatisfactory. We should make that point because many organisations throughout the country have lobbied hard and have produced detailed and complicated documents. They obviously cannot take account of changing circumstances but they have to know what the rules of the game are—and I do not think that that has been the case."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 231664,
      "EditedText": "Does not the development area map influence the objective 2 map? Is it possible for an area to have development area status, but not have objective 2 status, or, indeed, the other way about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Millard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 231665,
      "EditedText": "All things are possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 231669,
      "EditedText": "I am aware of some of the problems in South Ayrshire that you have identified, but I do not want this committee to become simply a lobbying voice for the areas that we represent."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 231675,
      "EditedText": "I missed, or did not quite understand, your answer to Dennis Canavan's question. You are saying that we are expecting a decision from Europe on objective 2 by about October. How far has the UK presented its case, and are we now in a position to influence it? If the case has been presented, can we see it? The sooner we see it, the better will be our position to address any problems or impacts it may have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5967,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Millard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 231676,
      "EditedText": "The UK case on objective 2 will go to the Commission around the end of September. At the moment the most that exists is a range of scenarios using different methodologies and different selection criteria that produce a range of options. Ministers will need to consider those options early next month."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 231677,
      "EditedText": "So are we in a position to influence it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
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      "ID": 5967,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 207.0,
      "ContributionID": 231681,
      "EditedText": "I apologise if I have not picked this up correctly but, to make it absolutely clear, will Mr Millard confirm that the map has not yet been decided?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Millard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 209.0,
      "ContributionID": 231682,
      "EditedText": "There is no map."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 213.0,
      "ContributionID": 231684,
      "EditedText": "When the minister attends, we can go into some of the detail on the map, population and so on. However, at the moment, there should be a holding letter from the committee to the secretary of state to make some of our concerns clear."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Millard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 221.0,
      "ContributionID": 231688,
      "EditedText": "All we have so far are draft Commission proposals on how interregional co-operation initiatives might work. In fairness to the Commission, I can say that it has produced a reasonable mix. We—the Scottish Executive and the UK Government—will need to consider the proposals in arguing for the right balance, so that Scotland and the other constituent parts of the UK get a fair opportunity and fair access. INTERREG is sometimes a bit difficult for us, given our geographical position. To take an extreme example, it is easier in Luxembourg to co-operate with other member states than it is for people in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5968,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 231693,
      "EditedText": "It will take me some time to understand where that concept came from. I hope that we have not just mirrored the Westminster model and that, not just in this committee but in others, we will start, over the next few years, to examine how civil servants are responsible and accountable to the whole Parliament, rather than to a particular minister. But that is not for you to resolve, Owen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 5968,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 240.0,
      "ContributionID": 231696,
      "EditedText": "I should like some factual information. Owen mentioned some Scandinavian countries. Which ones, and are they regions or countries?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 244.0,
      "ContributionID": 231698,
      "EditedText": "Which regions, please?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Owen Kelly (Executive Secretariat, Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 231690,
      "EditedText": "It is a great pleasure to be before the committee. I will start by explaining why I am here. I am head of the division that deals with the external relationships of the Executive. We are responsible for co-ordinating EU business. We are the sponsoring division in Edinburgh for Scotland House in Brussels. My division did the work on setting up Scotland House, so it might be useful to give members a feel for the process that we went through.I will briefly talk about the context of the devolution settlement, about the rationale for Scotland House—why it is the way it is, and what some of the other options were—about the practicalities, and finally about how it might relate to the work of the committee.I will be very brief, as I do not want to bore members with things with which they are already familiar. It is important to recognise the context in which Scotland House will operate. Relations with the EU are reserved under the Scotland Act 1998, but it is fair to say that EU issues are unique in the way in which they are treated in the devolution settlement. They are theoretically reserved, but the UK Government has made it clear that it wants to involve the Scottish Executive and Parliament fully in EU decisions on devolved matters. I put \"pre and post-decision\" on the overhead slide as an important aspect is implementation, which is one of the most substantial responsibilities of this Parliament.There will be a single negotiating line in Council in Brussels. There will be a single UK member state. The UK responsible department will be in the lead, with Scottish ministers involved as appropriate. From the Executive's point of view, the relationship between Scotland and Whitehall is very important because the United Kingdom permanent representative to the European Union acts under instruction from the UK Government. It is important that we feed into the UK Government early on, so that Scotland's position is properly taken into account and mechanisms are put in place to reflect that.The idea of Scotland House has been around since the white paper, \"Scotland's Parliament\", in which the possibility of a representative office in Brussels was specifically mentioned. Scottish Office ministers decided to go ahead and set it up so that it would be there for the Executive when it came into being. Staff in my division carried out the research. We had two people based in UKREP for about six months. They interviewed a wide range of players—members of the European Parliament, people in UKREP and on the Committee of the Regions, other regional representatives and so on. Their research was the basis on which we set up Scotland House. What did all that tell us? We looked at some other options, which are fairly obvious, I suppose: the idea of having a desk in UKREP, or having something free-standing and entirely separate from UKREP. However, we decided that some key principles needed to be reflected. The most important was that the representative office had to be inclusive and a focus for as many Scottish interests in Brussels as possible. We were influenced partly by the success of Scotland Europa, which was in some ways the predecessor of Scotland House. Scotland Europa is the organisation that is sponsored and run by Scottish Enterprise. It is basically a subscriber organisation to which public and private sector organisations can subscribe. We were keen to take that model and move it on. From the Executive's point of view, we were keen that whatever was set up added value—that we were not duplicating work that was better done from Edinburgh by the responsible divisions back here dealing with fisheries or whatever. We did not want people to feel that Europe somehow was over there and that they no longer had to go to Brussels. Likewise, we had to be sensitive to the fact that UKREP is the formal voice for the UK in Council and in dealings with other member states and with the institutions.Before we had a building, in our more pretentious moments—and there are not many of them when one is a civil servant—we used to say that Scotland House was more of a concept than a place. I believe that it is important that it is a place in which all of Scottish civic society and the private sector can come together. I hope that it will be bigger than the sum of its parts. The Executive office, which is our bit of the place, is physically a small part. The larger part of Scotland House—physically and in terms of the number of bodies—consists of other organisations: Scotland Europa and its subscriber bodies. There are also a couple of Scandinavian regional  representations in Scotland House, which approached Scotland Europa to be in the same place as Scotland. We welcomed that because of our interest in links with Nordic countries.Scotland House is intended to be a focus for Scottish interests. From the Executive's point of view, we are riding two horses. We want to be a Government office and to be regarded as something official, but, equally, we want to be part of the larger whole. I suspect—I am being slightly speculative—that over time Scotland House will appear in different guises depending on who is looking and with whom they are talking.As Scotland Enterprise was instrumental in identifying and obtaining the office, I can say that it is in a plum location. It is right in the middle of the key district in Brussels, opposite the Berlaymont. We can see on to the desks of people in UKREP, which might be useful. It is a good place from which to start.I realise that none of these issues is as pressing as some of the matters that members have been talking about in relation to structural funds, but at some stage members will want to meet Donald MacInnes, the chief executive of Scotland Europa, to talk about its activities and the sort of things that he foresees happening.Scotland House is a good place to start. It is something to be moulded by ministers, by this committee and by the Parliament. When we were setting it up, we were conscious that we could not prejudge the electoral outcome. We had to set up something that was flexible; I think that that is what we have now got.The Executive office is part of the Executive Secretariat, which has been set up at the centre of the Executive. One of the lessons from talking to other regional representations was that it was important to be seen by other players in Brussels to be plugged into the centre of the Administration. That explains why Scotland House is plugged into my division. We are also responsible for co-ordinating EU business generally.It is important to recognise that the Scottish Executive part of Scotland House is not in the policy lead. For many years, the position has been that anybody who has an involvement in European policy does that themselves. Jim Millard, for example, deals with structural funds, works with Europe all the time and is expert at dealing with Brussels. The same is true of colleagues in fisheries, agriculture and the environment. Scotland House is intended to improve rather than replace that. It has been the main stream for a long time. We are all Europeans in that sense. Scotland House is there to facilitate, not to duplicate, the work that goes on. That is true both for us in the Executive and for UKREP.Scotland House is a new, additional resource for us. We hope that it can support policy development in Scotland and that it can help with practicalities, such as attending meetings to which it is not cost-effective to send someone from here. An important function, which it is easy to discount, is the gathering of intelligence. As we already see, an enormous amount of information comes out of Brussels. It could be valuable to have an intelligence-gathering capacity, as we need to winnow out the things that will be of interest.We need to stay close to UKREP, which is the voice of the member state. We will have a hot desk in UKREP that can be used by our staff. That is important as it means that we can plug into its information and distribution systems, and it will be helpful for UKREP, too. Finally, Scotland House will have a domestic role in providing support for people visiting from the Executive or from other organisations in Scotland.I will now wind up—I am conscious of the time, convener. The structure of Scotland House gives this committee two—and probably more—opportunities to use it. Scotland Europa and the Scottish Executive office are distinct but make up a whole. The committee has a way, through Scotland Europa and, perhaps to a lesser extent, through our office, to plug into quite a wide range of Scottish interests in Brussels. We are there to help. I hope that if any committee members are in Brussels they will feel free to drop in or to ask us to assist in any way we can. Obviously, we have to be conscious that we are servants of ministers. That is a line that I would not wish to make too much of, but there might be occasions when we have to consider carefully ministers' views. I hope that committee members will go to the minister as the contact for policy issues. As Stephen suggested, it might be an idea in these early days to route communications through him, but if members have questions about the practicalities of Brussels or about things that they want done which are done more easily by  someone there, they should feel free to contact Scotland House in Brussels. We will do what we can to help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 231692,
      "EditedText": "That is right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 250.0,
      "ContributionID": 231701,
      "EditedText": "That is right, yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231702",
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      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 252.0,
      "ContributionID": 231702,
      "EditedText": "Dennis is fluent in it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 254.0,
      "ContributionID": 231703,
      "EditedText": "There has also, I think, been an approach from a region of Poland, but that has not yet been resolved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 258.0,
      "ContributionID": 231705,
      "EditedText": "The office could play a role, but I would not want to overstate it. In general terms, the best information flow that this committee and the subject-based committees will get from the Executive will be through people such as Jim who deal with the issues all the time and talk to people in the Commission. They are more likely to hear about specific matters and policy areas than Scotland House. I am not saying that Scotland House will not hear about them. A lot of information goes round in Brussels. Much of it is gossip, but quite important things can sometimes emerge that we get to hear about. I do see intelligence gathering as a role, but the important thing is that there are people at Scotland House who can see what is important. That is why, in staffing it, we are keen that people should go there for two or three years, bringing with them knowledge of the Executive and of the way in which the Government works in Scotland, so that they can spot the important things and the things that need to be referred back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5968,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 262.0,
      "ContributionID": 231707,
      "EditedText": "Yes, they all went there. They were all very enthusiastic to go when we moved location."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 266.0,
      "ContributionID": 231709,
      "EditedText": "I hope that we can arrange a meeting with our MEPs at some point in the future and also arrange a liaison mechanism. To return to the point that Winnie made earlier about how we influence the process, we need to use our MEPs to best effect—we need to examine that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 274.0,
      "ContributionID": 231713,
      "EditedText": "Very much so. Its staff are part of the Scottish Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5968,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 276.0,
      "ContributionID": 231714,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Owen. At some point, we will have to explore these matters further: links with MEPs—as Maureen pointed out—use of the facilities in Brussels and use of the organisations that are resident there. As we progress and develop, we will use those links to better effect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 279.0,
      "ContributionID": 231715,
      "EditedText": "I wish to return to the third item on the agenda: the consultation paper on Community structural assistance in the fisheries sector. It has been sent to the Rural Affairs Committee, which will give it detailed consideration. We have been asked whether there is a wider European perspective on which we wish to comment, and whether we want to comment on broader issues. We do not want to duplicate the work of the Rural Affairs Committee, but we could consider things from a different angle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Wednesday 18 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 5965,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 231583,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:32"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Wednesday 18 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 5965,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Hugh Henry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 231584,
      "EditedText": "Good morning. I welcome you to this meeting of the European Committee of the Scottish Parliament. I hope that everyone has had an enjoyable and restful break, as the coming months are going to be busy and potentially exciting. Before I start the meeting proper, I need to make a couple of points, the first of which regards fire regulations. The clerks to the committee will support and advise anyone in the event of a fire. There are uniformed attendants in the room who will help in the event of an emergency. We are advised not to stop to collect personal belongings and not to use the lifts. Secondly, this is the first meeting for Dennis Canavan and Winnie Ewing. I welcome them to the committee and ask them whether they have any declarations of interest to make before we start."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Wednesday 18 August 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 5965,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 231586,
      "EditedText": "I am no longer a member of the European Parliament, but I receive a pension and will receive some kind of severance, which has not yet been disclosed to me. I hope that it is good news—after 23 years, it ought to be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231592",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 5966,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 231592,
      "EditedText": "Documents that we receive from Westminster are sent to us at the same time as they are laid before the Westminster Parliament. We receive them directly from the Cabinet Office. That is the official route and it is the fastest route. We do not receive documents directly from Brussels, although we may receive working documents directly. We will be able to establish links into networks to get documents—such as reports of meetings, white papers, green papers and draft papers—directly to members. A complete set of the documents that we must officially consider is sent to us as soon as it is received in the Cabinet Office. The Parliament also receives a complete set to store in the document centre. We are not reliant on Westminster clerks to add us to the circulation list—we are already officially on it. As I said, that is the fastest way in which we can get the documents to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231594",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 231594,
      "EditedText": "At the moment, we receive all papers as hard copies rather than electronically. However, I understand that a database is to be set up in Whitehall that will allow us to receive electronic copies. I am not sure when that will happen but, as soon as it does, we will try to tap into the database so that papers will be available to members in the electronic medium."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231599",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 5966,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 231599,
      "EditedText": "We have thought about how the committees will interact. I will explain a couple of ways in which we hope we can smooth the process. When I, as the clerk, initially receive documents, I can at least—without prejudicing any decision that this committee may make—say to my fellow clerks that the document has been received, that it is a detailed subject and that it is likely that this committee will treat it as a matter requiring scrutiny by other committees. The clerking staff therefore have some early warning that an item has been received and may—I stress may—follow that path; the clerks can look at timetabling issues as early as possible and alert other committees.I perhaps did not stress sufficiently that, if an item has an extraordinarily tight timetable, this committee can deal with it even if might normally have been a matter for a subject committee. A matter does not have to be referred to a subject committee, even if it is detailed. I have been advised by clerks at Westminster, who are more experienced in such a role, that it is not often the case that they have only a few weeks in which to deal with business. Members of this committee are also members of other committees, although not, interestingly enough, the Rural Affairs Committee. However, members can of course use their experience from other committees and any member of the Parliament, including members from one of the other subject committees, can come along to this committee to give their considered opinion on a particular document. We are trying to facilitate the interaction between committees in a number of ways. The process may not be easy and we will have to be careful about timetabling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231600",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 231600,
      "EditedText": "The Parliament has a tight timetable so, if we decide to refer something to it, what will happen?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 231605,
      "EditedText": "That is not within the explanatory memorandum, but if the committee wishes that, I am happy to suggest it to the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 231613,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we take into consideration equal opportunities because, as committee members know, in Europe the two key factors for reports are attention to the environment and equal opportunities. If we included the environment, I would want to ensure that attention was given to equal opportunities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 231615,
      "EditedText": "Might the Procedures Committee wish to look at the matter?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 231618,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that similar committees will have this type of paper, which relates to the Scottish dimension and Europe. This is about our needs as a committee. Other committees might have a particular interest in other issues, but Irene is right that the two main platforms of the Treaty of Amsterdam are the environment and equality and they must be considered. It is not just about us but about influencing the way in which the Executive, including the officials, works and thinks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231621",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 231621,
      "EditedText": "If we want to influence the decision-making process, as mentioned on page 4 of the briefing paper, we must get into it as early as possible. The documents that we shall get will not necessarily achieve that. What would achieve it is the agendas of the meetings of the European Parliament's committees. An example is the document that gives the dates for various councils in which relevant matters will be decided, such as the Fisheries Council. Already we have lost the opportunity to influence it. Once the European committees start again at the end of the month, they will have an agenda of topics for which rapporteurs will be appointed, and that is where the early discussions will take place in which we want to be involved—before they harden into a report, when it is difficult to make changes. Flexibility arises when a committee is still discussing a subject. The committees are non-political in the sense that there is rarely a left-right confrontation—except perhaps in economic and monetary matters. Mostly anyone with a good idea has the chance to submit it at the early stage. If we do not get the agendas for what is happening at that time, we might lose our chance to influence the form in which issues are put to the European Parliament. Usually the Parliament passes what the committees propose because the committees, after all, are formed of all the different political groups, with the different skills and points of view. The flexible stage is when the committees first discuss the topics; what we need, and will not get unless we ask for it, is the agendas of the committee meetings from now on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 231628,
      "EditedText": "No—only things that literally would have no impact on Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 231632,
      "EditedText": "I will ask Stephen Imrie to explain the process before I bring this part of the meeting to a close. However, if we want to discuss further the committee's relationships with other bodies, we will need to structure our discussion properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 231634,
      "EditedText": "It is still not clear to me. I know that our opinions go into the Westminster system, but does that mean the European Scrutiny Committee or the Cabinet Office? If we input to the European Scrutiny Committee, I would be concerned about our committee's standing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 231639,
      "EditedText": "I want to make two brief points. When we refer the Scottish explanatory memorandum to the Scottish Executive, we need to put forward clearly the points that Bruce and Irene made about the environment and equal opportunities and stress that those are important matters.I do not know whether we will discuss the date of our meetings at some other time, but our briefing paper says that we will meet in the afternoon. Are we agreed on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 231641,
      "EditedText": "I think that morning meetings were originally suggested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 231647,
      "EditedText": "Jim, I will have to cut you short. The next part of your presentation deals with the preparation for the next phase and the plan teams. We can return to those issues at some point. We have limited time, so perhaps we should concentrate on the issue of structural funds and the immediate decisions that need to be made.That was a very good background presentation on where we have come from and our current position. As a committee working on behalf of the Parliament, we need to influence the process from this time on. I am aware that some critical decisions are to be made soon. I was alarmed at the departmental paper that was circulated, which suggested that there would be a significant detrimental impact on Scotland.I am glad that the Secretary of State for Scotland has been fighting vigorously to present Scotland's case. I think that we urgently need Jack McConnell to come before this committee to talk about the case that will be presented for Scotland, because issues such as the safety net raise questions about whether the net is protecting Scotland as we would expect. I do not think that the committee accepts that Scotland suffers disproportionately in the population coverage provided by the net when compared with the rest of the UK. We will have a discussion on Jim's presentation, but is the committee agreed that we should ensure that we get the minister into our next meeting? Furthermore, I also want to suggest writing on behalf of the committee to the Secretary of State for Scotland to express both our concern and what we expect to happen in the next round of the process. Perhaps we could include some of our more relevant comments and questions in that letter. If we agree on that, we can return to the discussion.That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 231656,
      "EditedText": "I am quite happy to agree with you, Mr Henry, but I am not clear whether the decision is still open. Are you confident that the decision on objective 2 is still absolutely open?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 231658,
      "EditedText": "I have two questions, the first of which concerns structural operations in the fisheries sector and the fact that only draft regulations exist. Might we have any indication as to when we will get sight of those? We would certainly want to see the draft regulations before they harden.My second question relates to transitional funding for objective 1 for the Highlands and Islands. In what respect is the approximately £210 million different from what the Commission offered? It was clear that there was always to be transitional funding if we lost objective 1 funding. Mr Millard said that that was achieved at Berlin. I wonder what the achievement was. What is the difference between what had already been offered and what was obtained at Berlin?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Millard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 231659,
      "EditedText": "I will answer the easy question first. We understand that fisheries regulation will be approved later this year. The intention had been that fisheries regulation and regulation of other structural funds would be agreed at around the same time but for some reason or another there has been delay. It should happen later this year and, in fact, it almost has to happen later this year if the regulations are to be effective from January 2000.The special deal for the Highlands and Islands is that the €300 million gives levels of funding equivalent to those of the existing objective 1 programme. Had the Highlands and Islands gone straight on to objective 1 transition funding, the transition arrangements would have been worth less. It is, in short, enhanced transition funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 231660,
      "EditedText": "The mystery that I am trying to solve is whether we know by how much it was enhanced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 231671,
      "EditedText": "My area in Renfrewshire is similarly affected. We must, as a committee, keep a wider perspective while continuing to lobby for our areas as individuals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 231672,
      "EditedText": "I just wanted to ensure that we consider all the areas that are affected."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Millard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 231674,
      "EditedText": "No, not at this stage. Much depends on how the map turns out and the relative shares of funding that Scotland, England and Wales secure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 211.0,
      "ContributionID": 231683,
      "EditedText": "The map has not yet been decided. The function of this committee, as the convener suggested, is to feed in to the secretary of state, but I have three or four sheets of paper somewhere in which the secretary of state is patting himself on the back and saying, \"You did well, John; you got us a terrific deal.\" At what point can we influence the secretary of state by suggesting that although he got a great deal, there might be a better one if we just changed the map a wee bit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 219.0,
      "ContributionID": 231687,
      "EditedText": "I have just a few points. It is important to acknowledge the progress that has been made. The UK has won a round at the Berlin summit. I hope that Scotland will benefit as a result of that. The convener's suggestion of making the secretary of state aware of our views and bringing him to one of our meetings would be a useful way to proceed.On Jim's point on Community initiatives, I have a brief question on interregional co-operation. Is there any relative balance on that, in relation to transnational and cross-border issues? It will be important for us to maintain a transnational perspective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 236.0,
      "ContributionID": 231694,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is a question for ministers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 242.0,
      "ContributionID": 231697,
      "EditedText": "They are regions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 246.0,
      "ContributionID": 231699,
      "EditedText": "One is of Finland and one is of Sweden. Oulu, I think, is one, but I cannot remember the other."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 248.0,
      "ContributionID": 231700,
      "EditedText": "Ostrobothnia."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 256.0,
      "ContributionID": 231704,
      "EditedText": "May I ask more about the Scottish Executive office? Owen mentioned intelligence gathering. We have talked about early warning: is that a role that the office could have? If there is a broader role, could Owen tell us more about it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kelly: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 270.0,
      "ContributionID": 231711,
      "EditedText": "It varies. People come in from Scottish Enterprise on secondment, for example. In full-time terms, Scotland Europa has roughly the same number. In terms of people who are paid for by Scottish institutions, the number is quite small. Most people in Scotland Europa represent organisations such as the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, Highlands and Islands Enterprise and a couple of private sector companies. They are called residents because they take space in Scotland House, which they use as their Brussels base. That was an interesting matter when we were examining other regional representations. What we set up had to be flexible and alive to the fact that we did not really know what the new ministers would want to do. In relative terms, the representation is quite small. Bavaria has, I think, 16 or 17 full-time Executive-equivalent staff based in Brussels."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C231716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 281.0,
      "ContributionID": 231716,
      "EditedText": "I want to make a couple of points on the wider aspects. It is self- evident that the fishery-dependent areas of Scotland—I am thinking of objective 1, or rather the new post-objective 1 programme plan for the Highlands and Islands—are those that are in receipt of the great benefits of financial instrument for fisheries guidance funding. Most of the initiatives of what used to be called PESCA will, I understand, be included in the new programme and are therefore eligible measures. When examining the economic output of fisheries and aquaculture, it is important to realise that the areas that have most to gain from funding are those that are totally dependent on fisheries as a stable part of the local economy. Therefore, the presumption should be that fishery-dependent areas are broadly expected to receive that funding. We need look no further than the other document circulated to the committee: the Highlands and Islands special programme consultative draft plan, which came in members' post around a week ago. It includes a SWOT\u001f\u001f—strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats—analysis of the Highlands and Islands. One could quote at length on the importance of the fisheries sector to many peripheral areas. I hope that that presumption will be accepted by members. Of the two other factors that I think are important, the first is the delivery mechanism. What used to be the Scottish Office agriculture, environment and fisheries department, now the rural affairs department of the Scottish Executive, delivered FIFG. As far as the representations that I have received are concerned, that was considered to be an effective mechanism to deliver the programme: it was useful and concentrated on the strength of the argument and on the benefits of the investment in terms of economic output. As that system is working, I would like there to be an understanding that it will be continued. It is clear that the model worked well. The only aspect that is worthy of further consideration is the integration of FIFG, the European social fund and the European regional development fund. If there is to be integration of the three—which should be achieved by the plans—it follows that if an investment is made in fisheries, whatever it may be, training and infrastructure measures will dovetail into it. If the rural affairs department is to be the lead agency, there needs to be some consideration of the best ways to implement and ensure proper integration of the different funds. The final aspect that I want to cover is overall funding. As I understand it, current FIFG funding was 6.9 per cent of the total budget for the objective 1 programme, or around £14.7 million over six years. The new programme is to be seven years, and there are more measures, so by definition, there is less money, which is to be spread more thinly. It is therefore particularly important that the case is put that more money in this area is spent on fish use and fish-related activities. The records will illustrate that projects ran out of money. There was not enough money in the pot for the number and range of imaginative projects that came forward from throughout the Highlands and Islands. In the context of more measures and less money—because it is spread over a longer time—it is important that, within the overall confines of the €300 million available, some consideration is given, when the plan is drawn up, to ensuring that fisheries gains more than the current 6.9 per cent, otherwise we will achieve less with it. Those are the points that I want to press. In the context of the committee, I think that my points on overall funding and on the way in which decisions are made are the important ones. In the past, the objective 1 programme worked pretty well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 288.0,
      "ContributionID": 231719,
      "EditedText": "Three points have been raised for the committee to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 290.0,
      "ContributionID": 231720,
      "EditedText": "I want to make a point about the west Highlands that is similar to the one Tavish made about his constituency. There are some fragile communities in the west Highlands which need to draw in investment from objective 1 and other programmes. We should be thinking in particular about conservation, for example of shellfish stocks. That is an issue in the northern isles as well as in the west Highlands and the western isles. We must think about whether the methods used to fish them are the best for conserving them. I am thinking about what is going on—I would hate to say a quarrel—just now between prawn creelers and prawn trawlers. That sort of thing has to be examined in terms of European funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 292.0,
      "ContributionID": 231721,
      "EditedText": "I know that we have a fisheries committee, and that it will get a bit difficult to separate our function from that of the fisheries committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 294.0,
      "ContributionID": 231722,
      "EditedText": "We do not want to get into too much detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 302.0,
      "ContributionID": 231726,
      "EditedText": "The statistics on the reduction of the fleet are very out of date. Perhaps it would be a good idea to ensure that we are working with statistics that are up to date."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 308.0,
      "ContributionID": 231729,
      "EditedText": "We have a crisis—a disease of the salmon—that will be known to any country with fishing areas. The European directive, under which the British directive was passed, provides for compensation, but for some reason ours does not. A case has just been raised in Europe to see if the payment of compensation cannot be obliged. Is that an issue for this committee or for the Rural Affairs Committee? Many of our areas are dependent on aquaculture, and we are sitting here with a crisis that this document looks as if it will not cover. That is just one crisis—there are, of course, others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 314.0,
      "ContributionID": 231732,
      "EditedText": "We will try to take those comments into account."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C231733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 316.0,
      "ContributionID": 231733,
      "EditedText": "It is important that the transitional payments and the moneys that will flow through this programme into fisheries are not used to pay for things that they should not pay for. Under a previous administration, decommissioning costs came out of objective 1 funding and stopped projects happening in many areas. That should not happen with infectious salmon anaemia. It is important that we separate objective 1 funding for new projects in the Highlands and Islands from funding for issues such as ISA, because ISA is a very different issue and area of expenditure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 318.0,
      "ContributionID": 231734,
      "EditedText": "Chapter 8 of the consultative draft for the Highlands and Islands lists the priorities for where certain amounts of money should go, but I am concerned that—because of some the requirements of the Amsterdam Treaty on competitiveness and high levels of sustainable development—the fishing industry has been effectively left out. The priorities listed include light manufacturing, food and drink, tourism, activities based on information and communications technology, and oil and gas. As this is a draft document, do we have a role in influencing its priorities for that money? If we do not, I fear—as Tavish said—that a vast amount of the safety net money will go towards the listed priorities and leave out the fishermen. I think that we have a role in trying to include the fishermen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Seminar",
      "HeadingID": 5970,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 5970,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 335.0,
      "ContributionID": 231742,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should give Stephen as much notice as possible. I have absolutely nothing against Bruce Millan—he is a former MP for Govan—but, to indicate that we are willing to look outwith this Scottish Parliament, we could perhaps hear from someone such as Peter Sutherland—someone who is working at the pointy end of Europe and can perhaps pass on his experience from his perspective. The Irish have been quite good at it, and the Spanish as well, Winnie."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 5971,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ID": 5971,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 344.0,
      "ContributionID": 231746,
      "EditedText": "May I ask—Winnie may be able to answer this—how many times a committee of the European Parliament meets on a particular subject? If we are told that the agenda in December is going to be emissions, for example—how many times would it meet on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 5971,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ID": 5971,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 348.0,
      "ContributionID": 231748,
      "EditedText": "I support what Winnie is saying; the earlier we get in on this the better. It is going to be quite complicated and I wonder whether there is some system that we could work out in co-operation with others, perhaps the Scottish Executive or with Westminster, to track issues. I know that individual regions with offices in Europe try to do that themselves. It is quite a big job and it may well be that we could work in co-operation with the Scottish Executive or Scotland House to put in place some sort of tracking so that we can identify when things are coming up and how to influence them. Clearly the earlier we get in on decisions, the better. Taking Winnie's point about the rapporteur system, perhaps trying to meet rapporteurs involved in issues relating to Scotland would be useful. Looking over some of the agendas in the briefing paper, it seems to me that there are a number of issues that we would want to be involved in. Just a cursory glance reveals issues such as the knowledge economy, e-commerce and economic and monetary union. Given Scotland's peripheral position in Europe, e-commerce, for example, is going to be vital to us and the earlier we can get in on some of these things the better. I do not think that we should underestimate the scale of the task. The first step might be to see whether we can work in co-operation with Scotland House or the Scottish Executive to have in place some kind of tracking system, or whether other proposals on how to track these issues can be presented to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 5971,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 339.0,
      "ID": 5971,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 356.0,
      "ContributionID": 231751,
      "EditedText": "It is inevitable that we will stray into matters of influence and early warning systems. As you said, Hugh, we will discuss that at a later date. When we discuss it, we should consider how we can influence committees of experts and the possibility of getting middle-ranking civil servants into Europe to influence the people who draft legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 359.0,
      "ContributionID": 231752,
      "EditedText": "Briefing documents on a number of subjects have been issued to the committee. Are there any other topics on which members would like briefing documents? They need not be related to our agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 375.0,
      "ContributionID": 231760,
      "EditedText": "Do you want a briefing paper on the subject?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 377.0,
      "ContributionID": 231761,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 379.0,
      "ContributionID": 231762,
      "EditedText": "After this morning's very good presentation, I think that we should have a more detailed briefing on the British Government's submission on objective 2 status. We will need to move quickly on that matter if we are to have any input as the submission will be made next month, I believe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 381.0,
      "ContributionID": 231763,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate your sentiments and I agree that we need to be able to exert some influence, but we are trying to consider briefings that the Scottish Parliament can provide. You are asking for information from the British Government, which is a different matter. I agree that we need the information that you mention. One way to get it would be to talk to Jack McConnell; the other way would be to talk to the Secretary of State for Scotland. I do not know whether our committee staff would be able to produce that kind of information as a Scottish Parliament briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 389.0,
      "ContributionID": 231767,
      "EditedText": "We have already agreed that we will ask the minister to come to the next meeting. I think that we can agree to a Scottish Parliament briefing on some of the key issues and questions for Scotland and we can ask the staff to elicit some information about the UK Government's current thinking on the matter. However, I hesitate to consider their chances of success—I think that you have had more experience of trying to obtain such information than many of us, Dennis.We will produce a briefing note outlining the key points of the structural funds debate and we will also get as much available information as we can from the UK Government, but I will not promise to deliver what the staff cannot access."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 395.0,
      "ContributionID": 231770,
      "EditedText": "I am not just thinking of Jack McConnell but, more important, of John Reid, if the UK Government puts forward the proposals to the EC."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 397.0,
      "ContributionID": 231771,
      "EditedText": "At the moment I think it is appropriate for us to ask the Scottish Parliament's Minister for Finance to come before us. We spoke about a meeting on 31 August, which is only two weeks away and I would certainly be keen to see Jack McConnell within the next fortnight, if we can do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 399.0,
      "ContributionID": 231772,
      "EditedText": "And what about John Reid? Westminster is not sitting at the moment. If he is sitting around doing nothing, perhaps we could get him more quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 401.0,
      "ContributionID": 231773,
      "EditedText": "As you know, there are issues of protocol. We cannot demand the secretary of state to come before us; we can ask whether he is available. We have a different relationship with the Minister for Finance. Before we meet the secretary of state, we have to ensure that the Scottish Executive has signed up to our agenda. There is no point bringing John Reid into a debate between the committee and the Minister for Finance when we have not formulated a point of view. We have already said that we will write to John Reid about some of our general concerns. At the next meeting, we need to talk to the minister and clarify our own views; then we can ask for a meeting with the secretary of state if that would be helpful. We need to get the sequence of events sorted out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 403.0,
      "ContributionID": 231774,
      "EditedText": "It is important for John Reid to meet us, because the European dimension is decided at Westminster—at Cabinet level—and John Reid is the man at Westminster. Although Jack McConnell can put his imprint on the Scottish Executive, the redrawing of the map will be done at Westminster and John Reid is the man there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 405.0,
      "ContributionID": 231775,
      "EditedText": "The problem is that if we do not agree with the Scottish Executive, we could find that the members of the Scottish Executive pay no heed to what we say because we spoke to John Reid before we spoke to them. We need to sign the Scottish Executive up to our priorities and then meet John Reid together—I hope with the committee and the Scottish Executive in tandem. From the Scottish Parliament's point of view, we need to get our act together and our views clarified. We have said that we will send John Reid a holding letter that expresses our concern. The appropriate way forward is to give the minister his place and then to seek a meeting—if appropriate—with the secretary of state."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 409.0,
      "ContributionID": 231777,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem with asking for a meeting with John Reid. It is up to him to say whether he is available to meet us. He may want to meet representatives of the committee or he may agree to meet the whole committee. I do not know what his timetable is, but I am more than happy to ask that this committee has a meeting of some form with John Reid. That was always in my thoughts or I would not have suggested that we write to him. Before we do that, however, we need to have Jack McConnell before this committee.You are absolutely right to say that there must be contact between the Secretary of State for Scotland and this committee in some shape or form."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 411.0,
      "ContributionID": 231778,
      "EditedText": "I propose that we try to meet Jack McConnell on 24 August as there are such pressures on time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231780",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 415.0,
      "ContributionID": 231780,
      "EditedText": "Whether we meet on 24 August or 31 August, are we now moving to afternoon slots?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231587",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 231587,
      "EditedText": "We move on to item 1 on the agenda. A paper on the scrutiny and sift process for European documentation has been circulated. As we discussed at the first meeting, a plethora of documentation and regulations comes from Europe. If we were to try to deal with everything, we would be unable to progress any business. We wish to identify the key areas that need to be attended to. There will be matters to which we need to pay attention and matters that Parliament and other committees need to attend to, but there will probably be much more that needs no comment. The paper that Stephen Imrie will speak to suggests how we might deal with that bulk of information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231589",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 231589,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Stephen. Before I throw the discussion open, I should clarify that what Stephen is suggesting is slightly different from what the flow chart in the briefing paper implies. The flow chart says that copies of every document will be sent to committee members, whereas Stephen is suggesting that members receive a list of all the documents with a recommendation as to whether we discuss them. If members wish to discuss a document and there is no recommendation, that document can be brought to the committee. The committee has to decide whether it wants a copy of every document that comes in or whether it is happy to receive a list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231590",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 231590,
      "EditedText": "The briefing paper states that the Scottish Parliament will receive a copy of all the documents that are received by Westminster. For clarification, do we get the documents—or does the secretariat get the documents—directly from Brussels or are we dependent on Westminster to forward them to us? As the clerk said, time is of the essence. If documents are to go through Westminster before they are forwarded here, I wonder whether that might interfere with our whole timetable.About 1,200 documents may be forwarded to us for possible scrutiny; it will be virtually impossible for members of the committee to look through the detail of every one of them. At what stage will members of our staff have access to those documents so that, on our behalf, they can scrutinise them and report back to us?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231591",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 231591,
      "EditedText": "I will answer your second question, Dennis, and leave Stephen to answer the first one. It is suggested that members will get a list giving details of every document that comes in. On that list will be a recommendation indicating which documents we think should be considered. If we recommend that a document should be considered, members will receive a copy of it. If we recommend that a document should not be considered, but a member believes that it should be, the member and his or her staff will have access to it immediately, as Stephen suggested. We are trying to help members in the process of sifting out the most important matters. We are also saying that members and the committee have the right to determine whether things that have been missed or ignored should be brought back for consideration. As soon as information comes out, members will have access to it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231595",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 231595,
      "EditedText": "I agree that using the electronic medium is a useful idea.I thank Stephen for his opening remarks, which helped to clarify some of the issues that I was going to raise. In a list of the various pieces of legislation or documents for consultation flowing from Europe, it would be very easy for us just to be given a headline. However, that would not tell us much. Some of the stuff can be obscure, so it would be useful for the list also to include a couple of sentences outlining the thrust of the paper. That would help us to understand things a bit better.The relationship between us and Westminster is obviously an issue of keen interest. I am glad to see on page 4 of the briefing paper on the scrutiny and sifting of European documentation that an informal relationship has already been established and that Westminster is treating us, at this stage, as a parallel body on areas of particular Scottish interest—although I am not sure exactly what the hell that phrase in the paper means, because if stuff coming out of Europe is going to affect the United Kingdom, it is going to affect Scotland as well. I need a better definition of what is of particular Scottish interest.The same paragraph in the briefing paper talks about the requirement for an agreement between the two Parliaments or between committees of the Parliaments. Westminster committees have an opportunity to put their views on matters before they are discussed by the Government. I hope that we will manage to get ourselves into that position, because that will be important to the standing of this committee and of the Parliament. I would like to hear some views on that from my friends and colleagues around the table.A couple of smaller issues need to be teased out. There is a reference on page 3 to the way in which Scottish explanatory memorandums will be structured. There is also a pro-forma for SEMs and I am grateful to Stephen for that. However, having looked at the Treaty of Amsterdam, at some of the issues that will be raised because of that and at some of the main thrusts of the European Community over the next few years, I think that it might have been useful to committee members if the memorandums contained mandatory information both on the environmental impact of consultation, directives or regulations coming out of Europe and on the issues of equality that they raise.Finally—this is a very small point—the business bulletin seems to grow and grow. It is an important document for us as MSPs and I need to get to the nitty-gritty of what business is going on. I see that it has been suggested that the list of European documentation held in the Parliament's document centre be published in the business bulletin. The Parliament should find a different way of notifying us of that; if it does not, the business bulletin will lose what it is really about. I realise that that is more of a housekeeping issue, but I thought I should raise it here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231596",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 231596,
      "EditedText": "I will ask Stephen to comment on that last point. The point about our having a view before decisions are made and legislation is passed is absolutely right. It relates to some of Irene's comments about timing—we cannot afford to consider things after the event. We need to ensure that our procedures are properly sorted out so that we can get in with our views as early as possible.I think that a descriptor, to go with the title on the list, is included in the template, but Bruce makes a useful comment, which will be attended to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231597",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 231597,
      "EditedText": "I certainly agree that it is vital to have a description of the documentation in the list. I also agree with what Irene was saying. I am happy to sign up to what is being recommended, but only on the basis that we are flexible and accept that—as we move forward and gain experience—we must be willing to adapt. I especially do not want to get into the Westminster scenario where something agreed today becomes the \"Erskine May\" for all time for all procedures.Perhaps Stephen can clarify the relationships we will have with other committees. The Rural Affairs Committee in particular has a heavy agenda, and we cannot simply punt things on to other people and tell them to come back to us within six weeks. How will the relationship work, in terms of the turnaround and quality of input, especially as we could find that there is so much volume that people do not have an input at all?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 231602,
      "EditedText": "Will you comment on Bruce's question about the pro-forma?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231603",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 231603,
      "EditedText": "In the pro-forma, which is shown in annexe 1, as well as listing all the documents that we receive and the recommendation from the convener, we will try to insert a short explanation of what the document is and some of the issues around it, the timetable according to which we will have to take decisions, and any other notes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 231604,
      "EditedText": "There is also the issue of whether we should be commenting in the Scottish explanatory memorandum on environmental impact."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 231606,
      "EditedText": "How has the pro-forma been developed? Where did it come from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 231608,
      "EditedText": "Would that be a standard document for every committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 231609,
      "EditedText": "The explanatory memorandum will be received by our committee; that will be the standard."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 231610,
      "EditedText": "I wonder, given that every committee might concentrate on different issues, such as equal opportunities or a whole range of things, whether there is another route by which we could have that document looked at, so that it is not the Executive that determines how it should come before the committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 231611,
      "EditedText": "With respect, I was signalling that I wanted to introduce that point. We are trying to work out how to manage an impossible amount of paper, never mind electronic mail and so on. All the committees of the Parliament link to this committee, and the Parliament is the managing agent for the structural funds that feed into the affairs of all the committees. This committee should say to the other committees that it is in their interest to do as Irene suggested and keep their eye on what is coming up. I think that Winnie could help us with guidance on how we could have a direct route to the initial consideration of what is about to come up in Europe, so that we can link into that. But it is up to the other committees to decide which of their members will keep an eye on the European dimension."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 231616,
      "EditedText": "It might not wish to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 231619,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the clerk will advise us, because my understanding is that our committee is unique in the Scottish Parliament, in our role of scrutinising European legislation and documentation. Therefore, the pro-forma is unique to our committee. Surely it has not gone out, even in a similar form, to any other committee. It is up to us as a committee to decide whether to refer documentation to any of the other committees of the Parliament, whether on the environment, equal opportunities or whatever."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 231622,
      "EditedText": "We are beginning to debate a separate matter. We have before us a proposal on how to sift the documents that we receive. What Dr Ewing is talking about is worthy—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 231623,
      "EditedText": "We are not receiving the right ones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 231625,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the work that has been done as I recognise the sheer volume of paperwork that will come through—we must be clear that we are giving attention to the things that are most relevant and of priority. There are two points on which I would like clarification. In relation to the initial sift process, with the designations of priority, regular and no further action, are there many matters that would have little or no relevance to Scotland if we are trying to put our perspective on things? What issues are being put in that category—does it include reserved matters? Some things could slip past because of that. My other point is about influence. A paragraph in the paper refers to the committee at a future stage having discussions on direct influence on draft legislation. I would propose that we go ahead on the basis of the process that is outlined, given that if we want to discuss something in more depth, we have the opportunity to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3529106+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 231629,
      "EditedText": "I return to Bruce's point on the relationship with Westminster. Once we have produced the Scottish explanatory memorandum or had an input into the European Scrutiny Committee at Westminster, what procedure or guarantees do we have that our case will be properly presented to that committee? I do not know how many Scottish MPs are on it or how our case will be put to the committee. We have a Scotland Office with a secretary of state, but our case could just disappear into that committee. We need to monitor what happens to our input and how it is made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 231630,
      "EditedText": "We need to develop a relationship with that committee, and I will seek a meeting with its chair to discuss how each of us will progress business. We need to make sure that our views are given due consideration; we will discuss that. There are other methods apart from membership of the committee—we will use every means at our disposal, including lobbying the secretary of state. At some point joint meetings or attendance of some of the relevant individuals at this committee might be useful.I do not want to cut anyone off, but we have spent three quarters of an hour on what should have been a relatively straightforward document. Is there anything that has not been raised about the mechanism and the process? I suggest that we amend the document to take it into account that we will not circulate all the documents but that there will be a list; that we are sending back to the Scottish Executive the explanatory memorandum; that at some point we will discuss how we influence the policy process—the point that Winnie raised; and that in future we shall consider ways of trying to ensure that our views are properly heard in the Westminster European Scrutiny Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Stephen Imrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 231633,
      "EditedText": "The procedures allow for this committee to give its considered opinion on any document to the European Scrutiny Committee, which will take that opinion on board, and to the Scottish Executive, which will be responsible for making sure that those decisions are passed on to Whitehall. Our committee will be able to give its opinions to other people, such as the Secretary of State for Scotland, but it is not for me to say whether that should be done; that would be a political decision for the committee to take. As European affairs are a reserved matter, we would not report to Westminster, but would pass our thoughts into the Westminster decision-making process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231636",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 231636,
      "EditedText": "A range of options will be open to us. We will be able to pass our opinions to the European Scrutiny Committee but we will also be able to use the offices of the Secretary of State for Scotland.We should not duck the issue, but we should come back to it at a later date. If we want a discussion on where items go from this committee and on what our relationship is with Westminster, we can put that on a later agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231640",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scrutiny Process",
      "HeadingID": 5966,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 5966,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 231640,
      "EditedText": "As opposed to in the morning?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 231644,
      "EditedText": "I have an urgent matter to raise that I believe is relevant to the subject of Jim's presentation. Will we have an opportunity to talk after the presentation, if not at great length?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 231649,
      "EditedText": "I ask the indulgence of the chair. I do not mean to make facetious use of this committee. Although I appreciate much of what Jim Millard said, I hope that we will be able to act on his points. If I may draw on what he said in his presentation, there is a desire for simplification following the Berlin summit. We, too, are trying to simplify the whole mechanism.It is unfortunate that we cannot invite the minister now, because the closure of the Continental Tyres plant in Newbridge, which has been announced today, will have as much of a dramatic effect on east central Scotland as the problems of Kvaerner have had on west central Scotland. I am interested in whether it is possible to use some of the mechanisms that are open to the Parliament—presumably, as this is holiday time, through this committee—to administer the moneys that may be available. In Jim's presentation, we heard that there is still an opportunity to use some objective 2 funds for training. I am raising the matter now because, at the Continental Tyres plant in Portugal, the company was recently able to ensure that staff were not laid off—saving the attendant costs in welfare benefits—by working with the Portuguese Government to retrain factory workers in situ until the market picked up again. I am reliably informed from all sorts of sources that it is a perfectly valid and viable operation—I accept that, as those sources worked in the factory, management may have another point of view. The problem is the market, which is the same argument that was used about Kvaerner. I said that I would be looking for your indulgence, Mr Henry, but is it possible to find out from the Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning whether we can access available funds? If the money is available, I want to use it in a relevant way to show people that we are doing some good and that there is some point to this committee, to the Scottish Parliament and to the European Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 231650,
      "EditedText": "It would be wrong to give the impression that this committee can look at every potential closure and suggest that we can bring to it a European dimension and interest. However, as the issue has been raised, we could ask the minister whether any European funds are available to keep the factory open.This issue is complex and it would be wrong of us to suggest that simply accessing European funds will alleviate the problem. If European funds are available, this committee should ask Mr McConnell to give the matter due consideration. I am sure that that will happen—and that it has already happened—but it is not the direct business of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jim Millard (Development Department, Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 231646,
      "EditedText": "But please do not ask any hard questions.I am grateful for the opportunity to offer an informal briefing—the first of many, I am sure.On my way in to work this morning, a traffic report warned of standing water on the M8. I believe that the report simply meant puddles. European issues, structural funds in particular, sometimes get caught up in unhelpful, misleading or less than clear language, but I will try to avoid that trap.One of the interesting facets of the process in which we are involved is that European affairs are a reserved matter. However, the Scottish Executive is the implementing authority for structural funds in Scotland. That responsibility will be of key interest to the committee. This morning, I will speak about the structural funds arrangements, the reform of the structural funds, which we are in the middle of, and the way forward for Scotland under the structural funds, in so far as it is clear at this stage.European structural funds are split into individual funds. The European regional development fund is fairly well known—signs around Scotland show that stretches of motorway, buildings or some kinds of business activity have been supported by the regional development fund. Similarly, the European social fund is readily identified with support for training and learning. The other two funds are less obviously part of the structural funds. The easiest way to put the European agriculture guidance and guarantee fund in context is to say that the guidance section is not the guarantee side and the guarantee side is about price support, intervention and so on. The financial instrument for fisheries guidance, the fourth fund, is fairly self-explanatory.Structural funds, in a generic sense, are about support for projects to encourage economic and social cohesion across the European Union.Structural funds are delivered by two means. The first is geographically, through objectives 1, 2 and 5b. In Scotland, objective 1 covers the Highlands and Islands, which are identified as areas lagging behind the rest of Europe; objective 2 covers much of the central belt, which is experiencing industrial decline; and objective 5b covers much of rural Scotland.Objectives 3 and 4—the horizontal objectives—deliver support for training across Scotland and are not geographically targeted.Those programmes will run until the end of 1999, when project approvals under them will finish. Project sponsors have up to two years after that to complete their work and claim grants.Structural funds reform has been on the agenda for a couple of years, first the threat and then the substance. Commission proposals were debated at length in working groups by officials from member states and were signed up to at the Berlin summit at the end of March.Reform had to recognise that the European Union will get larger, although we are not sure by how much it will do so or how soon. Preparations had to be made for a larger European Union that would embrace countries that are not as economically and socially advanced as us. Leg-room had to be provided through budgetary discipline, and the costs of structural funds, which account for one third of European Union expenditure, had to be constrained. Reform was also needed to simplify things. Some people say that structural funds are complicated, but they are wrong: structural funds are much more difficult than that. Simplification ought to stretch from the European Commission, through member states and implementing authorities, to the people who deliver projects. I am not quite sure that that is the case, but there is an opportunity for the Scottish Executive to make life as straightforward as possible for project sponsors. I may live to rue these words, but there is an onus on us to absorb the technicalities and to deal in-house with complexities between Scotland and Brussels. The other key principle is concentration, to which there are two aspects, the first of which is that the seven objectives under structural funds—I mentioned the five that apply to Scotland—have been condensed into three. Objective 1 remains much as we currently recognise it; it deals with areas that are suffering from economic difficulties or are lagging behind economically and where gross domestic product is 75 per cent or less of the European average. However, that status applies at regional level rather than, in our case, at local authority level.Objective 2 picks up the need to address both economic development in areas suffering from industrial decline and urban issues. Although a separate objective—objective 5b—had been established for rural development, objective 2 now contains a rural strand. It also contains a fisheries strand, which is a recognition that fisheries areas are suffering economically, either because fish are less easily caught or because of effort limitations or quotas. In either case, the economics of fishing have become that bit more fragile.Objective 3 deals with learning and training objectives that had been delivered under objectives 3 and 4. Interestingly, it is expected that although the majority of training support will come through objective 3, it will still be delivered through objective 1 and accounted for in objective 1 programmes. It is currently possible to support training through objectives 2 and 5b and, indeed, there is almost an expectation that that should happen. Next time round—after January 2000—training support will mostly come through objective 3, although the various programme partnerships will still have the option to use some of their objective 2 resources to support ESF activities.The second—perhaps more obvious—aspect of concentration was to reduce the percentage of the EU population covered by structural funds. The intention was to reduce the current figure of about 51 per cent to 40 per cent—when rounded down, that figure is still about 40 per cent but, in practice, perhaps 41 or 42 per cent of the EU's population will still be covered by structural funds.For Scotland, that means that the Highlands and Islands will no longer have objective 1 status because its GDP exceeds—although only just— the 75 per cent threshold. However, to replace objective 1 status, the Prime Minister has secured a special programme worth €300 million for the Highlands and Islands from 2000 to 2006. We can pursue eligibility for objective 2 status under its four strands: industrial, rural, urban and fisheries. Although we face reductions in population coverage, the Berlin summit confirmed that there will be a safety net for the UK so that the new round of structural funds will cover no less than two thirds of the population that is currently covered by objective 2 and 5b. That means that, at a UK level, we will experience a reduction of no more than a third.The safety net is a recognition that the criteria proposed in the regulations—and favoured by the majority of member states—acted unfairly and disproportionately in UK areas. As very few UK areas meet the qualifying criteria, the net ensures a reasonable degree of continuity and coverage for the coming period.For areas not designated for any objective status, there are arrangements for transitional support over six years, which is one year less than the length of the next programming round. For the first time, we have very welcome recognition—not just from the EC but from member states—that it is not a sensible idea to turn the structural funds tap off abruptly. Transitional support offers an opportunity for affected areas to develop exit strategies to wean them off structural funds support.Objective 2 status is still up for grabs. Early next month, UK ministers will consider how the objective 2 map for the UK might look, which means that, despite what some newspaper reports have said, no decisions have yet been made. UK proposals to the European Commission for objective 2 coverage have to be submitted by the end of September. It is hoped that the Commission will confirm UK objective 2 areas around the end of October or at the end of November.Objective 3 and the rural development regulation are unaffected by that process and will apply across the piece. Therefore, even areas not designated for objective 2 status will still have access to the regional fund through transitional status, to the social fund through objective 3 and—if those areas are rural—to measures pursued under the rural development regulation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3685356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 231655,
      "EditedText": "I apologise and I appreciate that this is not the correct committee at which to discuss these issues, but it is the only forum we have as the Executive is on holiday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 231657,
      "EditedText": "Yes. No decision has yet been made on issues such as the safety net. We must get in and ensure that Jack McConnell appreciates the issues and that the Secretary of State for Scotland is aware of this committee's view of what the issues are.I am asking that today we agree to invite Mr McConnell to this committee, and that we write a holding letter that gives our overall views to the Secretary of State for Scotland. We will have the opportunity to go into that in more detail at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Millard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 231661,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 231662,
      "EditedText": "Could Mr Millard explain to us the difference—if there is any—between development area status and objective 2 status? Last month the British Government forwarded our development area map for the whole UK to the European Commission. The EC can presumably either agree or not agree to that map. What opportunities are there for amending that map at this stage? Will the map that eventually emerges be a map of the UK that will simply be for what used to be called development area status, but will also be used for objective 2? Are the maps exactly the same or are we talking about the possibility of two different maps?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Millard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 231663,
      "EditedText": "We are definitely talking about two maps—the development area map and the assisted areas map. The assisted areas map represents areas where the member state's Government can provide support for business development and business expansion. Assisted area status allows higher levels of grants and support to go to individual companies, to the extent to which an enterprise company or the Scottish Executive through its enterprise and lifelong learning department can support businesses.The objective 2 structural funds map establishes the areas to which European funds can be brought to bear to enhance, augment and support the efforts that are made by local authorities and local enterprise companies.There may be an overlap and a coincidence of coverage, but the maps are quite discrete and separate and are for quite different purposes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 231666,
      "EditedText": "I am particularly concerned with the situation in Ayrshire, particularly South Ayrshire, part of which is in my constituency. Areas in South Ayrshire have recently lost part of their assisted area help and I am worried about the speculation that South Ayrshire will no longer qualify for objective 2 status.I have already written to Jack McConnell and a number of pieces of correspondence have gone back and forward. This is relevant not only to South Ayrshire, but to the whole of Ayrshire and its structure plan, and to how we take things forward. I welcome Mr Henry's suggestion that we get Jack McConnell along to this committee, but I also hope that we will do all we can in considering all the areas that are in a situation similar to that in South Ayrshire. There is a real danger that people assume—as Dennis pointed out—that the two maps are interchangeable or that the objective 2 map should follow logically on from what happens in regard to assisted areas.It would seem to me that under the new categorisation for objective 2—which takes in issues such as industrial decline, rural areas and so on—an area such as South Ayrshire would qualify for more rather than for less."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 231667,
      "EditedText": "She would say that, wouldn't she."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 231668,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely—and I will continue to say it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 231670,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 231673,
      "EditedText": "You have made the point, Hugh, that I was going to make about some of the special pleading that may be taking place. There are important issues here and we all welcome the suggestion that we meet Jack McConnell at the earliest opportunity. That way we can clarify some of what has happened behind the scenes in relation to the drawing up of maps and the relationship between them. We could also answer Dennis's question about the correlation between assisted area status and objective 2 funding.This question might better be directed at the Scottish Executive, given what has been said about the Executive's role in the implementation of structural funds, but I am interested in the method of delivery of those funds and the relationship with the Barnett formula and the block grant. I am also interested in the correlation—if there is any—between increase in population coverage and the sums of money available, given the existence of the safety net. Those are, I am sure, areas that we will want to develop further with the Scottish Executive, but does Mr Millard have any information on those issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 231678,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. There are critical things—particularly the safety net—that we need to be involved in just now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 231679,
      "EditedText": "I have a second point. The briefing paper, \"European Structural Funds, their reform and their application in Scotland,\" refers on page 4 to the loss of Community initiatives such as RECHAR II, which helps the coal industry, and PESCA for fishing, and their replacement by single programming. Will Mr Millard expand on what single programming is? Initiatives such as RECHAR II and PESCA have been very good targeted initiatives.  Will single programming be more under Executive control? Will the Executive draw up the programme? How much influence will we have on that programme?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Millard: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 231680,
      "EditedText": "There are currently 12 or 13 Community initiatives. Next time round there will be three Community initiatives, one encouraging interregional co-operation, one similar to the LEADER rural development initiative and one on training. The expectation is that the activities that have been successfully pursued under the other initiatives will be mainstreamed within objectives 1, 2 or 3. The programme partnerships that are responsible for the mainstream programmes will take responsibility for those areas. Indeed, most areas that enjoy support from Community initiatives at present are already eligible for further objective 1, 2 or 5b support."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 215.0,
      "ContributionID": 231685,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. We might have ideas to add to those of the secretary of state. Brilliant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 217.0,
      "ContributionID": 231686,
      "EditedText": "We will hear from Irene and then I will draw this item to a conclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Structural Funds",
      "HeadingID": 5967,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ID": 5967,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 223.0,
      "ContributionID": 231689,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that, as we cut your presentation short, Jim, there are a number of critical issues about the future of the programmes to which we will need to return. Similarly, after we have taken evidence from some of the partner organisations in Scotland, we will have some comments to make, like those that David made, about the inadequacies of the current process, so there will be communication between us in future.I suggest that we change the agenda: Owen Kelly from the Executive Secretariat will now discuss the role of Scotland House, and we will then cover item 3."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 238.0,
      "ContributionID": 231695,
      "EditedText": "It is not for you. I certainly do not want to blight your career opportunities at this stage. I will now open up the discussion on Scotland House."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 231691,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Owen. We always get good value from the Executive Secretariat: as well as an explanation on the role of Scotland House, we have had an introduction to philosophy. Is Scotland House a concept or a place? Unfortunately, we do not have the time to resolve that one.You touched on a point at the end, Owen. It forms part of my learning process and, I am sure, that of other members who have come from a local government background. I still find it hard to get my mind round the concept of the split of the Executive as servants of the Scottish Ministers rather than of the whole Parliament. For me, that raises the issue of accountability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 260.0,
      "ContributionID": 231706,
      "EditedText": "Following the combining of Scotland Europa and Scotland House, are all the tenants that Scotland Europa recruited still there?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 264.0,
      "ContributionID": 231708,
      "EditedText": "What are the roles of the MEPs? We have not talked about the relationship between ourselves and the Scottish members of the European Parliament. It is perhaps not an appropriate matter to bring up when we are discussing Scotland House, but it seems to be something to debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 268.0,
      "ContributionID": 231710,
      "EditedText": "Six people are employed in the Scottish Executive office at Scotland House. Can Owen give us an idea of how many people are employed there altogether, taking into account Scotland Europa and other employees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scotland House",
      "HeadingID": 5968,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 225.0,
      "ID": 5968,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 272.0,
      "ContributionID": 231712,
      "EditedText": "With regard to political communication and accountability, would it be true to say that Scotland House is more accountable to the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament rather than to Westminster and Whitehall?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3841547+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 283.0,
      "ContributionID": 231717,
      "EditedText": "I wish to clarify, Tavish, that your third point was on fisheries and a greater percentage, that your second point was on the delivery mechanism, and that the first point—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 310.0,
      "ContributionID": 231730,
      "EditedText": "That crisis is specifically for the attention of the Rural Affairs Committee. I propose that we write to that committee asking it to consider some of the points that have been raised today about fishery-dependent areas, the delivery mechanism and the allocation to the fisheries industry. We can ask it to look at the conservation issues raised by Maureen and some of the matters that Winnie has raised about the crisis in the industry. That is probably the best that we can do at the moment, and we can rely on the Rural Affairs Committee to go into the detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 320.0,
      "ContributionID": 231735,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pick up on the point that Tavish made. As part of the consultative process that is under way, we were written to separately about the special programme for the Highlands and Islands. There was a suggestion that that would be the subject of discussion at a future meeting. Would this be an appropriate point to determine when that discussion will take place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 322.0,
      "ContributionID": 231736,
      "EditedText": "At the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 326.0,
      "ContributionID": 231738,
      "EditedText": "I am advised that the document has been sent to interested organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Fisheries (Structural Assistance)",
      "HeadingID": 5969,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 278.0,
      "ID": 5969,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 330.0,
      "ContributionID": 231740,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we get the committee clerk to speak to members who have raised issues in this discussion to ensure that we have clearly identified their points of view, which we will then try to include in a letter or report to be sent to the Rural Affairs Committee for its consideration. I also suggest that that report be sent to the Minister for Rural Affairs, just for his information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Seminar",
      "HeadingID": 5970,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 332.0,
      "ID": 5970,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 333.0,
      "ContributionID": 231741,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that we are quickly running out of time. We had originally considered an October date for the proposed seminar, but I now think that that is completely unrealistic. I suggest that we put that back, and that we ask members whether they have any views on the document that has been circulated. Any comments or suggestions on how members think the seminar should be structured should be sent to Stephen. We will then try to revise the report, based on the comments received, and bring the revised version to a future meeting. That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 361.0,
      "ContributionID": 231753,
      "EditedText": "A document on relations with Westminster would be useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 367.0,
      "ContributionID": 231756,
      "EditedText": "In the briefing papers that we have before us today there is information about the trans-European network, transport policy and the proposals that are likely to come up. I would like to be kept up to date with developments as they arise. It would be also helpful to have information about the Scottish MEPs and the committees they sit on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1878E208P502C231757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Dr Winnie",
      "ID": 1878,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Winnie Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 369.0,
      "ContributionID": 231757,
      "EditedText": "I know that it is early days, Mr Henry, but do you have an idea of when we will start specialising and dividing up the subjects? There will be an enormous amount of legislation to scrutinise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 371.0,
      "ContributionID": 231758,
      "EditedText": "We can consider that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 373.0,
      "ContributionID": 231759,
      "EditedText": "When Jim Millard was here I raised a point about Community initiatives, which might come into our discussion on structural funds. Because Scotland does not have the same opportunities for cross-border projects as it does for transnational ones it is important that, on the INTERREG initiative, we maintain a strong lobby for trans national projects."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 383.0,
      "ContributionID": 231764,
      "EditedText": "We have to be very well briefed if we are going to put hard, relevant questions and points of view to Jack McConnell and John Reid when they appear before us. After all, they are not coming here simply for a chat."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 385.0,
      "ContributionID": 231765,
      "EditedText": "That is right, but you asked for a briefing on the UK's decisions about the matter and, at this stage, we do not know what those decisions will be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1968E300P550C231766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Canavan, Dennis",
      "ID": 1968,
      "PartyName": "Member for Falkirk West",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "*",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dennis Canavan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 387.0,
      "ContributionID": 231766,
      "EditedText": "We could have a briefing about the thinking that is going on behind the scenes on the criteria on which such decisions will be made. Perhaps we could also have a list of points to raise when the ministers come before us, which I hope will be soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0716347+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 413.0,
      "ContributionID": 231779,
      "EditedText": "We can check our diaries. We should agree to meet on 31 August and, if possible, as a committee to meet Mr McConnell a week earlier than that. I do not want to start making arrangements that will mean that half of this committee cannot attend, because it is so important that as many members as possible are present. If it is humanly possible, Sylvia, we will try to meet Mr McConnell next week. Failing that, do we agree to meet on 31 August? We must still agree on that and after that it will be appropriate to contact the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231781",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 18 Aug 1999",
      "ID": 1330
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-08-18T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Further Briefing",
      "HeadingID": 5972,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 358.0,
      "ID": 5972,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 417.0,
      "ContributionID": 231781,
      "EditedText": "No. On those dates we can still meet in the morning. There is a separate issue about timing that I want to come to. Would members prefer to have our next meeting in the morning or the afternoon?It seems that members would prefer the afternoon.We are agreed that we will seek a meeting with John Reid and that we invite Jack McConnell to the next meeting of this committee, which will be on either 24 or 31 August.At the end of this meeting, would members give the clerk an indication of whether they will be available on 24 August, as I would not want to go into a meeting such as that with only half the committee.A couple of members raised the general issue of whether meetings will be held in the morning or the afternoon. Some have raised the issue of the day on which we meet. Sir David Steel has asked for a meeting with all the Scottish Parliament's committee conveners to discuss areas of common interest and to try to resolve demarcation issues, and so on. Ahead of that meeting a timetable has been produced that suggests times for particular committee meetings. One of our difficulties is that if we decide unilaterally to meet in the morning, and the clerks have put out a timetable that suggests that our meetings will be in the afternoon, that will have a knock-on effect on other meetings. I do not know whether we can, at this stage, get some of those other meetings shifted. I think the meeting with Sir David is next week and I will raise that. Do members have a general preference for morning or afternoon meetings? There is an even split, so we will clearly not satisfy everyone. Similarly, we will not be able satisfy everyone regarding the day of the week on which we meet. I will try to establish with the other conveners whether there is any flexibility. Each committee determining its own meeting times would create anarchy, because we are often dependent on the same staff and facilities. The decision may be out of our hands, but I will do what I can.Is there anything—other than the issues that we have identified through this meeting—which members would like to be considered at the next meeting?As there is not, I thank members for their attendance at what has been a good and fruitful discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:07.0872586+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 25707,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25707,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 665027,
      "EditedText": "I am a member of the Transport and General Workers Union."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 25707,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25707,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 665035,
      "EditedText": "As there is apparently great public interest in the holidays of the conveners and members of the Scottish Parliament, I am practising for mine by saying that I have nothing to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 25708,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 25708,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 665036,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is the election of our convener. Subject to rule 12.1.2, the Parliament, on a motion of the bureau, has decided that only a member of the Labour party is eligible to be convener. I invite Andy Kerr and anyone else who wishes to stand to identify themselves and confirm their candidature."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 665042,
      "EditedText": "I congratulate Mr Kerr on his election to the post of convener. I look forward to working with him and I am sure that everyone else around the table will work hard with him as well. Transport was my No 1 choice, so I am delighted to have secured a place on the committee. As a matter of priority, I would like to be briefed on the subject of mobile phone masts. We have all read about that in the newspapers; I join the Daily Record, which carried a story on mobile phone masts last week, in saying that it is a subject that must be considered. There has been a Scottish Office consultation paper on the subject. At the moment, an operator can come along, and if the mast is less than 80 m high they can simply put it up anywhere. I want to make it clear that I am not against mobile phones—new technology is wonderful—but a balance must be struck between the public interest and erecting masts. I hope that we will adopt the Maastricht principle—the precautionary principle—on that.The creation of a rail link to Edinburgh airport is dear to my heart and to the people of my constituency and areas north of the River Forth. For many years, countless MPs from across the northern part of Scotland—and even the central belt—have called for it, so perhaps we can have a briefing. I have been associated in the past with the campaign for rail electrification from Aberdeen to Edinburgh. I would like a briefing paper showing the current situation and cost implications. May I continue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 665044,
      "EditedText": "I will have to choose between the other two issues on my list. Community transport, particularly in rural areas, is important. We should consider what more can be done to help people in rural areas who are cut off from transport at, say, 6 o'clock at night, and have no hope of being able to socialise.The last topic that I will raise is getting the balance right on land use planning and economic development. I think that Fife, where I come from, is second top of the league for unemployment and land use planning. There should be an inquiry into planning constraints across Scotland. I will make do with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 665048,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise a number of points, but I will be as brief as possible.A helpful list of organisations that we might want to consult and get briefings from is suggested in the briefing paper. I would like to add to that list, particularly transport unions—not just the Transport and General Workers Union, but the National Union of Rail, Transport and Maritime Workers, and the Transport Salaried Staffs Association. We should also have briefings from organisations such as Friends of the Earth, on general environmental and transport issues, and should not sideline those organisations into areas such as sustainable development. We should ensure that such briefings are part of the general working of the committee.I suggest that we should form links to tackle the poverty agenda, with organisations such as the Poverty Alliance, Energy Action Scotland and various pensioners groups. We should form links with transport users groups. I declared my membership of CND, which may well have an interest in the transportation of nuclear materials. I am concerned about how the committee will deal with some of the issues that have been raised through motions and questions in the Parliament. I do not wish to give a long speech—I know that the convener would not allow me to do so—on roads in Ayrshire, but it will be useful for the committee to note that there is already cross-party agreement on the M77 and related issues, which need to be debated and put firmly on the agenda. I hope that we will be able to put those issues—and other areas in which there are particular interests—on the agenda.In preparing for the meeting, I was interested by the huge number of relevant issues that are covered by reserved powers. I should like an assurance that the committee will be able to form an opinion on those issues and to direct that opinion to the relevant people when the time comes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 665049,
      "EditedText": "I can certainly confirm that point, as that is one of the roles of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 665053,
      "EditedText": "I echo Murray's view on pensioner concessions, which is a big issue. This committee should address as a priority the wide variation in concessions across the country.I am also concerned about the regulation of buses. I come from an urban constituency. We have to remember that it is not just rural areas that have problems with buses stopping at six o'clock; it happens fairly often in urban areas, too. The whole issue of bus regulation would give us something to get our teeth into."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 665058,
      "EditedText": "The clerks assure me that they can arrange suitable dates with everybody. We are talking about the end of August or early September, so bear that in mind when you are making plans, particularly for slots on Mondays, Tuesdays or Fridays. We will contact all members individually and ensure that we choose dates that suit. We will also discuss a venue for those events."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 665062,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but we need to be sensitive about it. If we pay one organisation a visit or ask it to host a meeting, that may have an impact on how other organisations see us. We will be discussing that and recommending that the committee should move about as appropriate. Certainly, we should seek out venues that are appropriate to our requirements. It would be good to go to the organisations—I will not name any in case others are not named—that have an impact on the areas that we are discussing. That way we would be on the ground, so to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 665064,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has advised me of the cost implications of those activities, but Cathy's point is relevant and we must bear it in mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 665073,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Lynn. Is there anything else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 665075,
      "EditedText": "We are aware of the fact that we will impact on other committees, particularly on matters relating to Europe and, with the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, on matters such as poverty. There is no problem with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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      "ID": 25709,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 665076,
      "EditedText": "Cathy spoke earlier about the committee going out to the people. Is there a general view that the committee should move, on a rolling basis, to different places all over Scotland, rather than just go out to meet different interest groups as the convener suggested? I am aware of the cost implications—I see a worried look from the clerk—but I think that we should consider that. We should go not just to the cities, but to the more remote areas of Scotland. The visits could also be combined with fact-finding missions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 665079,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. I have enjoyed this first meeting and I hope that we continue to work together constructively."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
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      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 25706,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 665023,
      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 12:02"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Transport and the Environment Committee<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 25706,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 665024,
      "EditedText": "I apologise for the late start. We were going to wait for Des McNulty, but he might be engaged on important business elsewhere.First, I have to read the fire action notice. If members hear the fire alarm, they should make their way out of the building, following the green running person fire evacuation signs. In future, members should refer to copies of the notice, which will be displayed.My name is Robin Harper and I am from the Scottish Green party. I am honoured and delighted to be the oldest member of the committee. It is only by virtue of my great age that I am sitting here to welcome the committee and its guests to the first meeting of the Transport and the Environment Committee of the Scottish Parliament.I have to ask members to ensure that they have their briefing packs. I shall preside over only two items of business before demitting office to Andy Kerr: the declaration of members' interests and the committee's choice of convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 25707,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 665026,
      "EditedText": "My only interest is that I am a sponsored member of the Co-operative party—the money went directly to the constituency party."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C665028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 665028,
      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare of which I am aware."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 665030,
      "EditedText": "I am a member of Unison and have no other interests that are applicable to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 25707,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 665033,
      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
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    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 665034,
      "EditedText": "I do not have as many subscriptions as Mr Harper, but part of my farm is a site of special scientific interest and a national nature reserve, and I have a management agreement with Scottish Natural Heritage. My interests are on the environmental rather than the transport front."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 25708,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 25708,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 665039,
      "EditedText": "Mr Andy Kerr was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
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      "ID": 25709,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 665041,
      "EditedText": "We must now address the remit of the committee and topics for future briefing. I hope that members have read the relevant documents. For the benefit of members of the public, it is stated that our role is to consider and report on matters relating to transport and the environment and any other matters that fall within the responsibility of the Minister for Transport and the Environment. That responsibility is understood to include transport—including the development of integrated transport policies for rural areas—the environment, natural heritage, sustainable development, strategic environmental assessments and the land use planning system. That gives an idea of the areas that the committee will cover. I would like the committee to begin its work with its members having a basic understanding of the committee's role, remit and responsibilities, and of the aspects of transport and the environment that will impact upon it. I am minded to organise early briefings on the overall impact of the committee and the forces that will come into play in our work, so that we can all reach a broad understanding of our remit. I ask committee members to describe the areas of interest on which they would like to be briefed and organisations that the committee might want to meet, which could give us a greater understanding of what we need to do in the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 665043,
      "EditedText": "You are stretching it, but you may continue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 25709,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 665054,
      "EditedText": "I am delighted that—as we have always known—the Scottish Green party does not have a monopoly on environmental concern and knowledge. In fact, what has been said around the table addresses many of, if not all, the things that I would have brought up myself had I spoken first. I asked to speak towards the end so that I could make that sort of observation.I strongly support the idea that this committee should look at our marine environment, which is seriously threatened. We should take views on the matter and see whether we can extend the powers either of Scottish Natural Heritage or of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency to include the seas around our coastline. The setting up of marine parks would be one way of providing the kind of protection that is required. Pedestrianisation is also important. We are talking about transport, but I transport myself on my feet most of the time. There are many people who would probably cycle more if they had the chance, and transport decisions should be taken with such people in mind.Scotland is way behind in the amount of material that we recycle and I hope that this committee will seek best advice on the matter.The Scottish Green party takes the view that the environment is a poverty issue. There are no proposals to put landfill sites in Barnton or opencast mines in Morningside. Inclusiveness is also important. When the committee is taking evidence, we must be careful about how inclusive we are. We must not think simply in terms of inviting Friends of the Earth, Scottish Natural Heritage and various other interest groups to speak to us; poverty action groups and other bodies should also be invited. Best practice has been mentioned. There is an enormous amount of good practice on transport and the environment throughout Europe and we should consider that. Murray Tosh mentioned renewables. Scotland could be leading the world in marine and wind energy and this committee must consider how we can encourage Scotland along that road."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 665056,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. There is a huge range of areas that we can discuss, with both macro and micro issues. Last night, for example, I was at a meeting of West Mains Community Council, where people were talking about concessionary travel schemes for pensioners. There is a mixed bag of systems in operation, so it would be a good idea for us to look at that.In terms of micro issues, dog litter is a huge problem for many people, particularly if they live near a park, as I am fortunate enough to do. Some people simply abuse that sort of physical environment. Heading back up the ladder, so to speak, I have an interest in environmental systems. In my former employment, I began the process of implementing an environmental management system, ISO 9000. I would like us to undertake some research on the uptake of environmental management systems in the Scottish economy and Scottish business life and on how we can increase and improve the use of such systems.Another important issue is how people can get involved in the planning process, which can be seen as somewhat distant and difficult to access, especially where the local authority or the advocate of an application has lawyers, QCs and professionals and the ordinary punters are trying to resolve an issue locally. I would like to see some examination of the planning process and how people can access it more effectively.Those are a few issues, besides the ones that have already been raised, that I hope we can consider. We must discuss how to plan our work and how we can make best use of our time. The staff will endeavour to produce briefings on many of the areas that we have mentioned. I crave the committee's indulgence on a subject that I raised at the start of the meeting: are we prepared to spend a couple of days in establishing the bottom line in terms of our role, our impact and the areas that we can examine? I have an interest in the environment; it was my first choice of subject matter. To put it bluntly, transport is not an area in which I expressed an interest. I am not saying that I am not interested in it, but I am not strong on it. I would like to hear more about the M77 and about strategic and planning issues to do with roads and transport. I would like to begin the work of the committee by ensuring that everybody has a bottom-line understanding of the issues. We could then bring in as many of the subjects that members have raised as we can. That would be a good way in which to proceed. Are people comfortable with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 665065,
      "EditedText": "I would appreciate some formal briefings. I have been having some individual and independent briefings, but anything that can be provided through a structured framework would be appreciated. The benefit of that would be that all members had the same knowledge.I would like to flag up the structure of the committee. Perhaps there should be an informal structure. The briefing document mentions the possibility of establishing sub-committees. Before we kick off in earnest, we should consider whether we are one committee or whether we will have sub-committees and, if so, who will sit on which sub-committee. Having chaired another committee yesterday, I appreciate the clerks' views on co-option. However, I would like this committee—and any sub-committee thereof—not simply to ask organisations, by citation or by invitation, to give evidence, but to sit with us as part of the committee and to have input even though they would have no voting rights. We should follow the recommendations and guidance of the consultative steering group by being inclusive. Following your advice, Mr Kerr, I do not want to name individual organisations for fear of excluding others, but we should try to have them on board rather than ask them simply to attend to give representation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 665066,
      "EditedText": "You will see from the third item on the agenda that if we want to establish sub-committees we will have to discuss it with the Parliamentary Bureau. Once we have met and looked at our work load, we can look at the ideas, principles and membership of any sub-committees we deem necessary. We must also consider how we can run informal committee meetings in which people can participate. I am in favour of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 665067,
      "EditedText": "Only last week, I had a meeting in Cowdenbeath in my constituency with Railtrack; I was fully briefed about the new railway line that is to be laid in my area. It will be a continuous line—in other words, it will not have all the usual joints. It was suggested that members of the committee might want to come to see the track being laid during the middle two weeks of July while the area is closed off. There has been massive consultation on the project with local groups and it might be worth visiting the site."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 665069,
      "EditedText": "We have been rattling through all these points and giving the research people a huge volume of work. We cannot possibly look at all these issues in the first few months of the committee's operation. When we get the minute of proceedings and see what work has been identified, we should agree—as part of our briefing session or at some other early opportunity—how we will prioritise our tasks. We must get them into manageable shape. If we want to tackle more work by devolving it to smaller groups, that might best inform our selection of sub-committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 665070,
      "EditedText": "I hope to agree a work plan that will take cognisance of the legislative programme as well as the areas of interest that have been highlighted by members of the committee. That work plan will be discussed and agreed and then we will know where we are going in the near future.To get through our programme of work, I shall be working with my team and delegating authority, and I will ensure that everybody is kept abreast of the situation. Is everybody comfortable with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C665074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 665074,
      "EditedText": "It would be a major omission if we did not mention one further issue. We have talked about Scottish and Westminster legislation, but such things as trans-European rail networks and European legislation will also have an impact on the committee. We might want to consider how we can dovetail with the European Committee and possibly other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665077",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 665077,
      "EditedText": "We will have to get Lynn to speak but, in the meantime, I will repeat what she has just told me. For specific issues, it may be appropriate to be in a specific part of the country. That idea has been taken on board. The mood of the committee is that we want to get out as much as possible to meet real people.Are there any late bids for other items?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 25709,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 665080,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:46."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 25707,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25707,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 665025,
      "EditedText": "If members have their declarations of interests ready, I propose to call their names as they appear on my list. My declaration of interests is as follows: I am a member of the Educational Institute of Scotland, Equity, Friends of the Earth Scotland, the Soil Association, the World Wide Fund for Nature, Greenpeace, the Scottish Environmental Design Association, the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, the Medical Campaign Against Torture, Reforesting Scotland, the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and the Episcopal Church. I am a fellow of the Royal Society for the Encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce. It appears on the official list of interests that I own a small flat, which I rent out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 25707,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25707,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 665029,
      "EditedText": "I am also a sponsored candidate from the Co-operative party. Although no money was paid directly to me during the election campaign, a constituency plan agreement will be set up with my party in the Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley constituency. In the same way I received some support from the Transport and General Workers Union, of which I am a member, at the election. I am a member of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament. Although I have no financial interest in it, my family has a small business in the motor trade; for the purposes of the committee, that should be noted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 25707,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25707,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 665031,
      "EditedText": "I remain a partner in the law firm Erskine MacAskill and Company of 4 Gayfield Square, Edinburgh. The only matter of relevance to transport is that when I flew to Prague for Scotland v Czech Republic, I had to cancel my flight on the Monday, having organised tickets for 48, including myself. Czech Airlines kindly flew me out on the Wednesday and upgraded me to business class for no additional fee—I declare that perquisite for the public record."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 25707,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 25707,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 665032,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Kenny. Unfortunately Des is not here yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 25708,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 25708,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 665037,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Robin. I confirm my candidature for that position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2188E70P92C665038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
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      "ID": 25708,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Harper, Robin",
      "ID": 2188,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Green Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Green",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robin Harper: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 665038,
      "EditedText": "As there are no other candidates, I invite the committee to confirm Andy as its convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 25708,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 25708,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andy Kerr): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 665040,
      "EditedText": "I get a swivel chair—now I know why Robin did not want to move.First, I thank members for that vote of confidence in my becoming the convener of the committee. It is a vindication of the Scottish Parliament that someone as young as Robin can be the oldest member of a committee and that an MSP can come from the Green party. That says a lot about the Scottish Parliament—its make-up, usefulness and the diversity of political opinions that it represents. In the Procedures Committee yesterday, we discussed best practice, which we would try to reproduce throughout the Parliament's committee structure. We agreed that committee staff should introduce themselves and that, instead of their whispering in the convener's ear, we should allow them to speak directly to the committee when appropriate. I believe that that is good practice. I begin by introducing the staff. The clerks today are Lynn Tullis and David McGill. The official reporters are Claire Hall and Cameron Smith. Behind them are Alison Lang from the official report, Jenny Goldsmith from the committee support staff, and Graham Vidler, Stephen Curtis and Rebecca Badger from the Scottish Parliament information centre. I have sat on the other side of the fence as an officer in a local council and believe that to ensure that everyone is involved is a good way to start. We shall be together for a long time in this committee and I am pleased to be a member of it, and even more pleased to be its convener. Some big issues lie ahead of us—we will be making decisions that we hope will improve transport and the environment for young families in particular. I look forward to working with the other members of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.952531+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 665045,
      "EditedText": "That will be enough for our first few meetings—I say in jest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1814E135P516C665046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fabiani, Linda",
      "ID": 1814,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Linda Fabiani: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 665046,
      "EditedText": "I will add to some of Helen's points. When we talk about rural transport, quite often the islands are left out. There should be a commitment to a route-by-route analysis of CalMac's ferries and their funding by the Scottish Office. It is important that the Transport and the Environment Committee knows what the funding is, how it is split up, and how CalMac intends to operate in future. Many communities depend solely on CalMac ferries.I have the same concerns on planning as Helen has. I am glad that we are enabled to consider national planning procedures in general. Procedures should be streamlined, but first we must understand how they vary across the local authorities in Scotland. In considering planning, I want to include sustainable development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 665047,
      "EditedText": "As a councillor, I was on the transport committee in Shetland, and I spend rather a lot of time on a variety of means of transport, getting to the central belt. I endorse what Helen said about a rail link to Edinburgh airport as I have a vested interest in that.We need to break down transport planning into rural, urban and strategic network aspects.There is more to rural transport than sea transport. There is a need to consider the integration of sea and air transport, as air links are as much of a lifeline as any other type of transport, when, for example, one is trying to get to hospital, as hospitals in the islands do not have the range of medical services that are available on the mainland. We cannot avoid assessing the effectiveness of current measures that attempt to defray the high cost of petrol, such as those of Highlands and Islands Enterprise to encourage investment in rural petrol stations,  and the rate rebate scheme. On the environment, I want the committee to investigate the marine environment in particular, as we do not pay it enough attention. There was an incident in the Fair isle channel this weekend, when a 78,000-tonne tanker lost power six and a half miles from the coastline of a vulnerable and fragile part of the world, which is a world-renowned bird sanctuary. The marine environment is worthy of considerable investigation. The advantage for the Fair isle is that there are people there to argue for their community; that is not the case on St Kilda, which is an equally important area to investigate.I want there to be investigation and assessment of those areas. I know that work has been done on designations. This committee will want to take a view on the numerous designations for many parts of our natural environment. I speak as one who has many."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C665050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr MacAskill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 665050,
      "EditedText": "I echo what Cathy said. At the outset, we must get briefings and set down the remit of the committee. We are required to consider and scrutinise the Executive's legislative proposals. Issues have been raised and flagged up—in particular, road tolling. Further information about proposals on road tolling should be presented as soon as possible. We must clarify matters. There are two issues to consider: tolling of arterial highways and road pricing to address congestion. As a resident of the city and a member of the SNP, I oppose the former, but I am sympathetic to the latter in the right circumstances. The City of Edinburgh Council is seeking funding to consider the Oslo position. We should consider what is on offer.We have to be visionary and participatory. That follows on from what Cathy has just said. We require clarification almost immediately—we obviously have to wait for what comes from Westminster—on whether the Scottish Parliament and this committee will be independently and separately represented on the strategic rail authority. If they are not, I believe that we will have been neutered and emasculated at the outset. It would be outrageous if we did not have direct input into the strategic rail authority. First and foremost, the committee must contact Westminster to ensure that the position is clarified.We have to consider other measures in the legislative proposals, such as parking charges. We should perhaps investigate what can be offered as an inducement. For example, will tax breaks be on offer, so that an employer can provide ridacards, or reduced or subsidised public transport as part of employees' remuneration? What fiscal benefits will there be for an employer or an employee? We should look at what is done outwith Scotland and the United Kingdom; in France, for example, there are payroll taxes, and employers are financially encouraged to provide public transport benefits for members of staff. We have to consider the carrot as well as the stick.On the environment, we know what is coming in terms of national parks and we will have to consider various matters that have been raised elsewhere. Tavish mentioned the marine environment. I know that the World Wide Fund for Nature sees no reason why national parks should be restricted to land. Will we consider marine national parks? If so, we should take advice on what happens in Wales and elsewhere, so that we can preserve the natural environment and habitat in areas such as the Minch.On participation and vision, will this committee be represented separately at the OSPAR commission meetings? Given the effect that OSPAR will have on the North sea environment, if we do not have direct and independent representation, how can we adequately represent the interests of Scotland and its environment? We want clarification on that.I know that Stirling Council has raised the question of play zones. I have a young family and think that it is important that we reclaim streets in urban areas for people rather than simply for cars. Home zones, which have been put forward by various councils south of the border, offer the opportunity to progress matters here.I am aware that waste recycling is costly. We are trying to catch up with limits and directives that have been set by the European Union, but we do not appear to be reaching them. However, we should consider the money that is obtained from Scotland in landfill tax. If money is to be hypothecated from parking charges, tolling charges or whatever, why should not the landfill tax, which provides substantial funds to the exchequer, be hypothecated to allow Scottish local authorities to recycle waste to the benefit of the community and the natural environment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 665051,
      "EditedText": "I think that voluntary organisations can bid for the revenue from landfill charges for environmental projects. That is a valuable asset in the overall environmental picture. It would be a shame if that were lost."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 665052,
      "EditedText": "It is becoming difficult to think of fresh topics. The researchers behind me must be groaning under the weight that is piling on their backs, but I would like to mention some issues that have not been raised so far. Clearly, we will examine many controversial issues when we consider the legislative programme.When the Executive's review of the A77 and M77 and other strategic roads is finished, this committee might have a role in investigating the link between road transport and economic development and how roads interlink with railheads and ports.Taking up Helen's point about land use in relation to economic development, I suggest that commercial and residential builders are raising important questions about how we programme land supply. There may be a need to consider how that is done, how guidance is given to local authorities and how well local authorities deliver land. In the context of community transport, I can say that representations from pensioners groups on the variation across the country in concessionary travel schemes have been a feature in my mail. There may be scope for us to examine that and to find ways—whether through guidance or even, as has been suggested, legislation—in which to establish a national framework for concessionary travel.I am also interested in environmental issues. A micro local issue is the impact on the community of the many old planning consents for quarrying that were given in the 1940s and 1950s, before the current planning framework was in place. In some areas, they are beginning to raise important environmental questions that we could investigate.Another matter that arises from my Ayrshire background—it has been mentioned in the Parliament—relates to fifth and sixth freedoms for air freight. Those are primarily within the competence of the UK Parliament, but we may want to investigate them—I am reassured by what the convener said about this committee's interests in matters beyond our strict legislative remit.Finally, I am interested in alternative energy strategies. As we exhaust our fossil fuels and become aware of the difficulties of traditional means of generating power, we will have to look to the future. I am sure that Mr Harper will have that in mind, too."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C665055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 665055,
      "EditedText": "The strength of this committee is that it is national; we can be powerful at a strategic level. In considering such things as roads, we should take a strategic look and see where the gaps are rather than zero in on individual problems. We must look at how things fit into the wider pattern. I wonder whether we could have some information about how we can use geographical information systems technology to help us in our work. It is a very powerful tool, which is beginning to become relevant as places are mapped. If we are operating strategically, it may be useful to have that technology at our disposal. In considering waste, I think that recycling is the last thing that we should look at. We should be looking at minimisation and reduction; we should treat the disease rather than the symptom."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 665057,
      "EditedText": "During the recess, we will get briefings and information from the parliamentary staff. I suggest that towards the end of the recess and the beginning of the new term—that sounds like we are going back to school; I should say when the Parliament reconvenes—we should arrange a couple of full-day events at which we could cover a lot of ground. Are people happy with that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C665059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 665059,
      "EditedText": "I have a question on a point raised by Kenny MacAskill. Can you give the committee guidance on the timetabling of the bills that we will have to deal with? They will obviously have a major bearing on our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 665060,
      "EditedText": "I am unable to give you that guidance at the moment, but it will be given as soon as the information is available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
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      "ID": 25709,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 665061,
      "EditedText": "We must balance the logistics of this committee with the meetings of other committees. Each committee will have its own work load. I am on the European Committee, which has already identified a number of things that are likely to be discussed. The question of moving the location for committee meetings has been asked in every committee. Are there any proposals for this committee to go out and about?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C665063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 665063,
      "EditedText": "That is reassuring. I was concerned that only the people who could afford to come here could make representations. I want to ensure that local communities throughout Scotland can be involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 665068,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. We shall bear that in mind."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C665071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 665071,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, everybody knows how to get hold of MSPs and how to get hold of me. I will be happy to hear from anybody during the recess. Although it is unusual for staff to speak in committee meetings, the clerk will say something on this occasion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C665072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lynn Tullis (Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 665072,
      "EditedText": "If, during the recess, members identify other issues on which they would like to be briefed, they should contact the clerking office and the issues will be incorporated into the briefing programme."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C665078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Transport and the Environment Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3962
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Transport and the Environment Committee",
      "ID": 176
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 25709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ID": 25709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Tosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 665078,
      "EditedText": "Just a vote of thanks to the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:37.9681539+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622770",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 622770,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to get copies of the Neill recommendations or the consultation paper as they will play a big part in the way in which we move on. It might be useful for this committee to contribute to the Neill committee's consultation process. After the recess we can decide whether we want to make a representation and what form such a representation would take."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622772",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 622772,
      "EditedText": "That is important, but we should tell the Parliamentary Bureau that we do not want to rush at our work and get it wrong; it is important that we get it right. We need to work within constraints but also be aware that the code and the guide will last for a long time and that, if we get them right, we will not have the problems that bodies such as Westminster and local government have had. We should get it right first time rather than rush it through for the sake of parliamentary time. A balance needs to be struck. Perhaps you and the clerks could speak to the bureau about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622764",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 622764,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the formal session of the second meeting of the Standards Committee. We have a short agenda: to consider the initial work programme. All members have had the benefit of the briefing papers that we received last week and the oral briefings that we had in our private meeting this morning.Before we get into the first and only item on the agenda, I should let everybody know that the Parliamentary Bureau has instructed me to make a statement and  propose a motion on the \"Register of Members' Interests\", to be taken without debate on Friday. I will read my statement and motion to members so that everyone is aware of what we are doing.\"The Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999, requires the Parliament to determine when and how the Register of Members' Interests should be printed and published. Statements for the Register are now due to be entered in the Register.I move,That the Parliament agrees that the Register be made available, on or after today's date, in a loose-leaf folder in the office of the Clerk of the Parliament and on the Internet.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622765",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 622765,
      "EditedText": "All members have the draft work programme that the clerks produced. It says:\"It is proposed that the committee will meet (after the recess) fortnightly until the committee decides otherwise, with the first meeting to be held in the week beginning 30 August.\"Is everybody happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622766",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 622766,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622773",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 622773,
      "EditedText": "We could start out with a transitional code, which we could take time to revise. The bureau wants to move quickly, in parliamentary terms."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622776",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 622776,
      "EditedText": "The worry is that members would be left without practical guidance. However, we will address the principles in the first meeting.Draft documents will be produced over the summer. Is everybody happy that they have had their say?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622779",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 622779,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 10:57."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622763",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 18712,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18712,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 622763,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:48"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622767",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 622767,
      "EditedText": "The document also says:\"It is the committee's intention that its practice will be to meet in public, except where the circumstances demand privacy. Further consideration, in the light of decisions on the role of the committee, will be given to the circumstances in which the committee would meet in private.\"In other words, the assumption is that we will meet in public but we will occasionally meet in private. In our last meeting, the opinion was expressed that we should be consistent in our decisions about when to meet in private. We can discuss the details after the recess.In the section on the \"Register of Members' Interests\", the document proposes that, in our first meeting after the recess, we\"consider the manner and timing of the publication in documentary form by the Clerk of the Register of Members' Interests.\"The main business of that meeting will be a discussion of a code of conduct for members and a guide to the rules that relate to that code. During the summer break, the clerks will produce a draft code and guide for us to examine. Is everybody happy with that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622768",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 622768,
      "EditedText": "I am happy for the clerks to proceed. I was impressed by the consultative steering group's document and I think that it is important that we have a positive code of guidance. We have a duty to tell members what they should do, rather than what they should not do. We have to send a message to the people of Scotland that the Parliament will be open, transparent and accountable. We need to let them know who we are and tell them that we are decent and honest and that we want to engage with them. I would prefer that the code of conduct is a positive statement of our aspirations as well as our expectations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622769",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 622769,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point and well put. The clerks confirm that we have taken that on board. The code will be positive, not just a case of \"Thou shalt not\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622771",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 622771,
      "EditedText": "It is important to remember that there is a tremendous amount of detailed work to be done on the code of conduct and the guide in August and September. Because Parliament wants to debate those issues as soon as possible, we are under pressure to get through our work as quickly as we can. It is important that the clerks take the guidance that we are giving them and produce draft documents for discussion after the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622774",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18713,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 622774,
      "EditedText": "I support what Tricia said earlier about stressing the importance of good practices. The seven principles in the Nolan committee's report on local government—selflessness, integrity, objectivity, accountability, openness, honesty and leadership—are almost a mission statement. I think we are looking for a similar sort of thing. Stressing the importance of good practices at the outset would help to give a good overall impression."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622775",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18713,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 622775,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pick up on what Karen said about the balance that needs to be struck between getting the code right and getting something done. I suggest that we should agree quickly on the key principles that will underpin everything else. We could publish those principles for the Parliament and the more detailed guidance could await further consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622777",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 622777,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622778",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3468
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 18713,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 622778,
      "EditedText": "Thank you all for coming. We will meet again after the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 603056,
      "EditedText": "We are moving to the stage at which we must identify what we take forward. We have identified various subjects, and we are starting to identify key areas. It is important that at our next meeting we ensure that we are keeping strategic issues in mind—the bigger picture—as well as dealing with short-term issues. This is the committee that must be seen to be doing things. A good way of organising a paper for the next meeting might be to capture what we have already discussed and to make recommendations for short-term, tactical things that we want to do, as well as strategic long-term things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 603060,
      "EditedText": "We should be looking to develop work over the summer. I know that people have holiday arrangements, so rather than have just the one meeting, we should have a rolling programme across the summer. The key meeting is, as Michael said, the briefing session and the meeting to prioritise the work. We should come away from that knowing what we are going to be doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C602976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18267,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18267,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 602976,
      "EditedText": "Ladies and gentlemen, it is with some chagrin that I record that I have been identified as the oldest member, which means that I am to chair the initial part of the proceedings. I should say that I am the oldest member, but only just; courtesy forbids identifying the second oldest.Do all members have the appropriate papers? I see that they have.I will preside over the first two items of business, before handing over to the elected convener. I should mention at the start that in this committee room there is no requirement to press a button. What members have to say will be picked up automatically."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C602977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 602977,
      "EditedText": "We will now proceed with today's business. I must bring to members' attention the requirements of article 5.1 of the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999, which relates to the registration of members' interests. Members have all completed and returned the appropriate form. Today we are required to ensure that no member of the committee has an interest that has not been declared on the form. That is to avoid any conflicts that may arise from time to time. I will now invite members, in turn, to confirm that they have no interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C602978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 602978,
      "EditedText": "I have nothing to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C602981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 602981,
      "EditedText": "I have nothing to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C602982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 602982,
      "EditedText": "I should record my partnership with Ross Harper and Murphy solicitors in Glasgow. I am not sure whether that will create any conflict of interest, but one never knows. I am also a member of several legal bodies, whose work may overlap with that of this committee: the Law Society of Scotland, the Glasgow Bar Association and the Scottish Law Agents Society. Finally, although this is not a pecuniary interest, I am a committee member of the executive of Rutherglen and Cambuslang citizens advice bureau and a former chairman of the management committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C602983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 602983,
      "EditedText": "Again, I see no problem, but we will record those details."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C602985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 602985,
      "EditedText": "I do not have any specific interests to declare, but I have worked in the general field of social inclusion for some time and have contacts with a number of organisations. I have been asked to sit on the advisory committee of Women's Aid and the advisory committees of a few local organisations, such as housing associations. I will inform the committee of any such developments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C602986",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 18268,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 602986,
      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C602987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 602987,
      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C602991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 602991,
      "EditedText": "That will be noted. For the record, I have no declarable interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C602992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18269,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 602992,
      "EditedText": "We will now proceed to the election of the convener. On a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau, the Parliament has decided that the party whose members are eligible to be convener of this committee is the Labour party. I invite any member from that party who wishes to stand to identify himself or herself and to confirm their candidature."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C602993",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 3348
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
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      "Heading": "Convener",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Curran: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 602993,
      "EditedText": "I am willing to stand."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C602997",
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      "ID": 3348
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 602997,
      "EditedText": "Ms Margaret Curran was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 603002,
      "EditedText": "My hope is that we will have a broad discussion today. We want to be as inclusive as possible, and it is appropriate that this committee should reflect that. As I understand it, this is the committee on which most members of the Parliament wanted to sit, so we should all be grateful that we are here. However, that places a terrible burden of responsibility on us.I do not need to tell anyone present, whether members of the committee or members of the public, that social inclusion, housing and the voluntary sector—the remit of this committee—are huge issues. All of us could come up on the spot with at least 10 items that we would want to consider. I would like us to start today's meeting with a fairly wide-ranging discussion, to allow members to give a view on what they think the committee should work on and where it should direct its inquiries. Towards the end of the meeting we can try to focus the discussion and work out an order of priorities.This is a very important committee. Many organisations active in this field will want to have access to us and will scrutinise what we do. The Parliament will look to us to give it a steer on many significant issues. The broader community of Scotland, too—the constituencies and regions that we represent—will be looking to us to represent its interests.This is a serious committee and I look forward to working with all its members. I have great respect for the work that has been done by people from other parties, and I look forward to our having a constructive relationship. Many of the issues with which we will deal go beyond party politics and are very problematic, so I hope that we can work together constructively.Before opening out the discussion, I would like to bring one or two things to members' attention, as I have received a preliminary briefing. I have been informed by the Scottish Office that Mr MacKenzie, the head of the development department, has invited the committee for a briefing on social inclusion and the work of the department. That is an information-gathering exercise that we could do quite quickly.One or two other organisations have been clamouring at our doors, and I am sure that we have all had letters from different organisations offering us advice and information. I think that I am speaking on behalf of all members when I say that we are more that willing to listen to what people have to say. However, that needs to be done in a structured way. A number of options are, therefore, available to us. I now want to open out the discussion; we can return to specifics later. Who would like to speak?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603009",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 603009,
      "EditedText": "Targeting issues is a huge problem and we could spend the rest of our lives doing it, which is what John was moving round to at the end of his remarks. We need to identify the areas in which we can make a difference, rather than those on which we have a philosophical attitude, but where, at the end of the day, we cannot make a difference. Among the issues that I would like us to home in on is the impact of the new housing partnerships in Glasgow. That is a key concern, which has a lot to do with the question of the PSBR and of capital investment in housing. If we can get that right, it will make a difference. Fuel poverty has the advantage that the solution can be viewed holistically, in that, if we get healthy homes initiatives right, it will also have benefits for health. The effectiveness of such programmes is therefore important. Opportunity is another important area, although I am not sure where our remit ends and that of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee starts. There are also issues to do with physically and mentally handicapped people and the ability to empower people to play a full part in communities on which there is some overlap. The involvement of the voluntary sector is vital, as it is an important element of the economic and social fabric of the country. We need to increase the value that the voluntary sector adds in various ways. It is also important to examine the potential for working in greater partnership with the voluntary sector. Another issue that members will be aware of at the moment is the Bath Street citizens advice bureau in Glasgow. There are a number of issues that we need to home in on, not least homelessness, which has already been touched on. This committee has the ability to examine homelessness from various angles to see if we can do something to get rid of what is one of the major blots on Scottish society—the number of not only homeless, but roofless people about the place. Finally, we have a significant need for up-to-date, valid, reasonable and relevant statistics. The solidity of the information that we use is essential."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 603021,
      "EditedText": "Those are your words, not mine, Bill. At 3 o'clock, I will try to focus the discussion, but I want to follow on from Mike's last point. We have to hear from people who live with these problems. We have to access those people into decision making, give them access to us and let us hear their voices. That is most readily done by going out and getting rid of the intimidating atmosphere of the committee room.During the election campaign—and even before the campaign—I discovered that one of the biggest issues for people who live in deprived communities is drugs. That issue came up time after time. People are not stupid; they are not looking to the Parliament or to any one party for magic solutions. The issue cuts across parties and it might be very constructive to examine it. We need to show faith with the communities that we represent and with whom we want to engage by hearing what they have to say, because what they tell us is sometimes different from what some agencies and services tell us. We have to get the whole picture by allowing the most deprived people to speak directly to us. That is what the Scottish Parliament is all about. So many MSPs have said that the committees are where decision making is really going to happen and where power sharing will take place—indeed, we have all said it ourselves. If any committee has to get that right, it has to be ours. We might stumble at the start and not get things right, but if we try, I think that people will respect our efforts.I am also picking up on the committee's determination not just to analyse situations, but to get things done. We need to have proper briefings about issues, complexities and hard decisions in order to understand them, but there is no doubt that we must move into action. I think that there is broad agreement about that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1805E13P109C603024",
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    },
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Whitefield, Karen",
      "ID": 1805,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Airdrie and Shotts"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Whitefield: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 603024,
      "EditedText": "I want to make a quick point because, like everyone else, I agree with most of what has been said. We have an extensive list of the issues that we think contribute to poverty and we have heard suggestions about how to tackle the problem. I want the committee to consider the voluntary sector's role in helping to tackle poverty and to examine how its structure and framework might be inhibiting its contribution to social inclusion. Voluntary sector organisations are in the front line. They deal with people who are socially excluded. They also provide services to the community and are a major employer. I want to ensure that the committee does not forget the voluntary sector, but will regard it as forming a central part of our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 603026,
      "EditedText": "One or two points are coming up time and again. The fact that this is a cross-cutting issue is not easily solved, because the other committees are presumably saying the same about crossing over with us.What we agree here is not cast in stone. We can review our decisions and revise them if they are not working. If we think an issue is directly related to poverty, we can examine it and refer our findings on to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee or to the Health and Community Care Committee. If we wait for all the inter-departmental issues to be resolved, we will probably wait for some time, but I do not want to get into territorial warfare with other committees. I am sure that no one here wants to get involved in that sort of bureaucracy.Having sounded out other colleagues, I believe that most committees have expressed a willingness to work with each other. If we cross into another committee's territory, we will sort that problem out when we get there."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603035",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 603035,
      "EditedText": "Funnily enough, I want to follow on from another point that John made. The effect of the hard drug culture in poor areas, particularly with the explosion in the use of heroin, in some ways defines Glasgow and Glasgow's huge poverty problems. One issue that has never been looked at properly is the black economy. What is the product of the multi-million pound heroin business that exists in Scotland and, dare I say it, how will we replace that money? According to the latest study carried out in Glasgow, that business makes somewhere in the region of £60 million to £70 million a year in Glasgow alone. Is there room for manoeuvre in the Barnett formula to replace that money? This issue is seldom discussed, but we have to address it. One of the principal reasons the new deal is failing—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 603036,
      "EditedText": "I can sense a bit of breakdown now."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 603051,
      "EditedText": "I hope that stock transfer is not going to be treated as a purely Glasgow issue. Other councils across Scotland are doing it too, and it must be looked at across Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 603044,
      "EditedText": "I am beginning to see the discussion take shape. There are a number of strands, one of which is that members are asking for a lot of background briefings—perhaps a visit to the department or to the social inclusion network, which I think wants to meet us reasonably soon so that it can brief us on what is being done. It would be foolish not to be briefed on what the Executive is planning to do, or on what has been reported already. Members have raised interesting questions about the big picture and about where we are, and I think that we should follow up some of those suggestions. We then need to get a balance of different interests. We can examine and dissect specific issues, such as the housing stock transfer in Glasgow. Then there are other, bigger issues, such as housing. John raised a series of issues under housing. Perhaps we should package them and prioritise within that group. There are also issues around the ways in which we conduct our business and how we engage with the wider community—the people who are watching the workings of this committee—as I think that that will be the test of whether the Parliament works. I would be keen to take up Robert's suggestion of presenting a paper to the next meeting that deals with those three strands of our work. It must be relatively straightforward to get information on the European approaches—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
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      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 603052,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is generally accepted as a country-wide issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 603053,
      "EditedText": "We were suggesting early meetings, but yesterday the Rural Affairs Committee put social inclusion at the top of its agenda. Before either committee begins work, it would be appropriate to have a meeting between the two conveners, if not the two committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
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      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 603058,
      "EditedText": "I think that we should combine the informal briefing with a meeting at which we decide what our initial priorities are. We should not get involved in any more than two investigations—I am quite comfortable with a twin-track approach in a committee of this size—but we should decide what those investigations are. That is not because we need to be seen to be doing something, but because there is a great deal for us to do, and we must get started. We need briefings, because we come from various backgrounds and have different levels of experience in this broad field. We should seek a meeting that combines a briefing session on the subjects that we think are initially most important, and at that same meeting set out our initial priorities. That must be during the recess. Understandably, people have holiday arrangements and so on over the next eight weeks, but I suggest that there must be a recess meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603064",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 603064,
      "EditedText": "It might be appropriate to have the briefing meeting combined with the work programme meeting in the next couple of weeks or so. We could then have a meeting a week or so before the recess ends, so that we resume after the recess with our work programme agreed and having made a start on implementing it. That would give us two meetings technically during the recess—one at the beginning and one at the end—and that would I hope fit in with people's holiday arrangements and the need to make a start on some work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 603066,
      "EditedText": "That is a sensible suggestion. Most people are going away in the last fortnight of July and the first fortnight of August, so they are non-weeks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 603069,
      "EditedText": "The suggestion is that early in the morning we could go to Mr MacKenzie's office for a briefing. That might last for an hour or an hour-and-a-half. We could then have a break and convene after that. I will do my best to get a paper together that reflects what we have talked about and sorts them into long and short-term priorities, with perhaps some suggestions for investigations. By that time, I will have pursued some of the issues about sub-committees and working groups and have some answers on that. It is now one minute before quarter past three. Are we all agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 201.0,
      "ContributionID": 603071,
      "EditedText": "Hopefully, the clerk will negotiate with people about dates, or should we set one now? It would be helpful to do it now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 203.0,
      "ContributionID": 603072,
      "EditedText": "I do not have my diary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 18270,
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      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 603027,
      "EditedText": "I take your point about addressing the issues that we think affect poverty. Lloyd made the point that, instead of tackling an issue as it arises, we might have a system—as in Ireland—of making sure that we can automatically identify which issues need poverty proofing. That would certainly facilitate our work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C602979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 602979,
      "EditedText": "I have been employed as an economic consultant. Over the past three or four years, I have been involved in that capacity in work on social inclusion strategies for local enterprise companies and Scottish Enterprise. I do not regard that as a conflict of interests, but it is worth recording."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C602980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 602980,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is a conflict, but we will record that to keep the member right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C602989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 602989,
      "EditedText": "Again, I do not think that that is a problem, but we will record it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C602990",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18268,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 602990,
      "EditedText": "I am the chair of the Scottish Campaign for the Welfare State—the Scottish arm of the Campaign to Defend the Welfare State, which operates at a UK level. I am also a long-standing supporter of Shelter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C602996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18269,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18269,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 602996,
      "EditedText": "I take it that there are no other nominations. That being the case, we have only one nomination before us—that of Margaret Curran."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C602998",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18269,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 602998,
      "EditedText": "I offer my congratulations to Margaret and hand over the chair to her."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603001",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Heading": "Convener",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 603001,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. This is a very inclusive committee—it is quite intimidating to sit here. I hope that we can relax as we proceed."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603007",
    "Meeting": {
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 603007,
      "EditedText": "The point about drugs is a good one, as drugs have a particular impact on poor areas. The Health and Community Care Committee and the Justice and Home Affairs Committee would probably take the view that that issue was part of their remit, rather than ours. However, we have a particular remit in that field. I believe, although I do not have the evidence for it—that is the purpose of this committee—that the impact of drugs on poorer communities is different from the impact on more affluent communities. It is part of this committee's role to crystallise that view.Fiona gave us a long list of issues to address, as we all could. On the anti-poverty front, a ministerial task force has just been appointed to look into the causes of poverty and deprivation. It is important that we have an early meeting with its members to discuss the kind of work that it will undertake. The Scottish social inclusion network has also been working for some time on anti-poverty measures. We must meet members of the network to discuss activities in which it thinks this committee should be involved.Representatives of social inclusion partnerships from across Scotland intend to have a meeting in Dundee this summer at which Wendy Alexander, the Minister for Communities, will be the keynote speaker. This committee should make every attempt to be represented at that meeting, even if all that means is that we are present and listen to what people at the cutting edge of poverty have to say about their predicament.The list goes on and on. The Scottish Affairs Select Committee at Westminster has just embarked on a major investigation into poverty and its causes in Scotland. We should meet that committee to discuss how our work can interlock. However, that is only part of our remit on the anti-poverty front. There are also the changes to housing benefit. We have the power to look at any legislative changes here or at Westminster that might impact on the areas for which we are responsible, which those changes clearly do.Despite the long list that Fiona gave, there are other housing issues that have not been mentioned, for example, Scottish Homes. What is its future? We must meet representatives of Scottish Homes. We do not need to interview them here, but we could go to see them and receive a briefing on their role and what they are doing to tackle housing problems in Scotland. There is also the question of the future of the social rented sector in Scotland. Is there a future for council housing? If so, we should speak to the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and to housing authorities across Scotland. The definition of public borrowing, which has a massive impact on housing, is another issue. Why should we not invite Treasury officials to come to this committee to justify their definition of the public sector borrowing requirement, which stands out against that used by the rest of Europe? Other European countries use the general government financing deficit as the criterion for defining public borrowing. A similar definition would allow local authorities to start investing in housing again, which they have been prevented from doing for a long time.Recently, I, like every member at Westminster, was sent a letter predicting the number of early deaths in winter in my constituency between now and the next general election. Around 10,700 people in Scotland will die early during that period because they cannot keep their homes warm. Fuel poverty must, therefore, be a major focus of this committee. If we go round everyone, we all come up with different lists of issues that need to be addressed. The committee should learn to walk before it runs. We should spend the summer thinking about all these different things and, if possible, taking briefings from the clerks and from other organisations involved with the committee, before we make any hard-and-fast decisions about the programme ahead. There is so much to do that we do not want to rush headlong into the wrong decisions. We should take time to consider the issues and then come together to discuss them in a more informed way than we can this afternoon."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603010",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 603010,
      "EditedText": "The last letter that I opened before coming here was from Shelter and was about homelessness. Shelter's lobbying is very effective and a number of people have mentioned homelessness as a key issue."
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 603011,
      "EditedText": "I agree with much that John has said. It is important that we spend the summer talking to people. However, in light of the statistics that were released about poverty in Scotland last week, our principal purpose must be to address and deal with poverty—so many other things are directly related to it. I am concerned about potential housing stock transfers, but we are being driven to deal with them, simply because the time scale for their coming into operation is so tight. In the summer, instead of planning local anti-poverty strategies, which I do not think have worked effectively in Scotland, I suggest that we take a leaf out of the books of the Dutch and the Irish and we spend some time considering poverty proofing in policy. That should become our remit. We should look towards developing a proper national anti-poverty strategy. That has been extremely successful in the Republic of Ireland where the government is already 2 per cent ahead of all its target figures for the first three years. The Republic has many of the same problems that we have, such as homelessness, public housing stock and drugs, as Keith referred to. We should identify a means by which we can poverty-proof each of the decisions or legislative developments of the Executive and other committees. We should have poverty proofing on the basis that we do not allow, at the least, things to get any worse than they are. In the last year of the 20th century, it is horrifying that two out of three children in this country are born into poverty. We must address that and address it quickly."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603012",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 603012,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603013",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
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      "EditedText": "I have one further point. The current contribution from the voluntary sector is tremendous, but there are terrible problems in regard to registration and charitable status. We must find a means to make things easier for everyone in the voluntary sector. We must also take a clear look at the manner and means of funding the voluntary sector."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603014",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 603014,
      "EditedText": "This list is getting longer. We can get information about the European countries and I think that everybody would support us considering it. It is significant information. I will come back to that point and organise getting the information later."
    },
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 603016,
      "EditedText": "That is the problem."
    },
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    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603017",
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 603017,
      "EditedText": "I have worked in this field off and on for the past 20 years. If people look at the figures over the past 25 years or so, they will find that the level of poverty is substantially worse now than it was in, for example, 1974. I remember a report produced by the National Children's Bureau in 1973 called \"Born to Fail?\" The report suggested that one in 10 children was born into poverty or failed as a result of low income, bad housing and high unemployment. Now that figure is nearer one in three. Part of our remit should be to find out why the situation has become steadily worse. More important, we should find out what we can do to steady the situation and put it into reverse, so that in 25 years' time we have a significant improvement in relative poverty rather than another 25 years of its getting substantially worse. There is a danger of paralysis by analysis. We have statistics from hundreds of organisations coming out of our ears, but it is important that we get to grips with the fundamental reasons why poverty is still such a significant part of Scottish life. I agree with Keith Raffan that it is important to remember the rural dimension. A few years ago the European Commission designated the Wigtown area as the poorest area in Europe. Often when we talk about rural areas, we think only about the Highlands and Islands. We should think about all of rural Scotland, such as rural mining areas as well as the Highlands and Islands. We should work with the Rural Affairs Committee, which has put social inclusion in rural areas at the top of its agenda. An early meeting is important so that we do not duplicate each other's work.Having said that, I think that we must recognise, looking at the total poverty picture in Scotland, the overwhelming importance of greater Glasgow. There is statistic after statistic about Glasgow representing 40 per cent of this, 50 per cent of that, or whatever. We must pay attention to and zero in on the circumstances in Glasgow where there is clearly a concentration of poverty and a significant proportion of our total population. I have always been concerned by the fact that a lot of money is spent on social inclusion strategies. A range of organisations such as local authorities, the local enterprise councils, Scottish Enterprise, Scottish Homes, education departments and all the rest of it, work out their own social inclusion strategies. We need—and I think that this committee can play a significant role here—a nationally agreed comprehensive strategy for dealing with poverty, so that all the public sector resources are channelled according to one agreed strategy rather than having things all over the place with bits of money here and there, a new agency here and a new agency there. A lot of money is wasted through the lack of an agreed strategy.Much of the money that is spent ends up with what I call the woolly jersey brigade. It is used to employ people from fairly prosperous backgrounds, who visit deprived areas from nine to five. Not a high enough proportion of resources ends up in the pockets of the poor people. One of the useful things that this committee could do as an early exercise is an audit trail of all the money that the public sector spends on poverty, social inclusion and related matters, with a view to ensuring that a much higher percentage of the money ends up in the pockets of the poor rather than bolstering the woolly jersey brigade. Maybe I could have been counted as one of that brigade at one time.In this committee we can take one or two specific measures that we do not need to wait a long time for. John has already mentioned fuel poverty and I agree that that is a high priority. We need to examine the new warm deal programme. In comparison with what is happening south of the border,  that programme needs a fairly early review because it is not targeting people to the extent that the same programme is south of the border. That is an issue for us to discuss.We should not forget about food poverty. Food poverty is just as important as fuel poverty and it has not received the same attention that fuel poverty has in the past.My final point, which we will probably have to discuss with the Justice and Home Affairs Committee—I agree with Keith that the drugs  issue needs to be discussed with it—is about the warrant sales regime in Scotland. It is a pernicious piece of legislation and a good example of how poor people suffer from legislation. As an act of faith, I would like this committee to initiate legislation this year to abolish warrant sales in Scotland. Very few, if any, civilised countries in Europe have a warrant sales system for recovering debt. I think that the abolition of warrant sales would send a message to people in Scotland that we really do care. We are prepared, not just to talk, discuss and debate, but to do something. The earlier we are seen to do something, the better."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603018",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 603018,
      "EditedText": "I have a list of topics and have progressively ticked off every one. I will not repeat what others have said, but would like to highlight the things that I think are important. Overriding that, we must avoid falling between too many stools. In this committee there is no point in trying to skim the surface of a number of subjects and not getting deep in any of them. Fairly soon—I suspect not today—we must get down to discussing our priorities. I suggest that we should meet again fairly sharply to do that, whether it is before a briefing or not.I am interested in the voluntary sector and would like to consider its role in a number of strategies that are under way at the moment and how it links with much of what local authorities are doing. As far as the voluntary sector is concerned, that would involve questions of funding and continuity of funding to enable it to plan ahead more effectively than has often been the case up to now.From experience, I am concerned about the effect of the whole drug culture. There is clearly a difference in the forms of drug use and abuse. The so-called leisure drugs present an entirely different problem from the problem of those who are taking drugs as a result of poverty or those for whom drugs ensure that they remain locked into poverty, and that is an aspect that I want to examine.I also want to examine the various agencies that work on drug abuse, such as those that deal with rehabilitation. There is duplication and sometimes outright competition between some agencies and I want to investigate ways of drawing maximum effectiveness from them.This committee, of all committees, should be getting out, seeing problems at first hand and meeting people. I suspect that many of the people we want to help are unlikely to come to the Parliament and say, \"I have a problem and I wonder whether you can help me deal with it.\" We need to engage with those people. To be honest, I would have thought that meetings of the committee in Edinburgh would be kept to a minimum. There is a lot to see and the Parliament's ethos is about engaging with the people of Scotland. That is particularly important to this committee."
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  },
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): ",
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      "EditedText": "You have not heard from me yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 603022,
      "EditedText": "When we go to the likes of Dundee, we should deliberately not have meetings at the Caird Hall. Rather, we should meet at community centres in housing estates. I have lived in Dundee. I know that some folk in peripheral housing estates find Caird Hall almost as remote as Edinburgh. We should make a point of going into the communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 603023,
      "EditedText": "I have a lot of sympathy with that point of view. We get a different perspective of residents' problems by going out and about with them and talking to them, instead of sitting in a formal meeting with them. We should be as innovative as possible about such meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 603025,
      "EditedText": "There is a remarkable and encouraging consensus on the committee for a readily identifiable concern. I think that everyone recognises that the issues are clear. However, we have to prioritise. Issues such as drugs and poverty will require input from other committees and from other Government departments.Keith Raffan made a good point about rural poverty. I do not want to be thought dismissive of that problem, but I think that the inner cities are the real crux of the matter. The situation in Glasgow—which I am sure is not very different from that in other major cities—is alarming. We could have a blame culture and point to a lack of housing investment and past policies that were never going to work, but we are now confronted with a problem that we have to do something about. We should urgently consider housing stock transfers. I am aware that certain parties and individuals have misgivings about that issue. I was supportive of the move when I was a city councillor, although I had reservations about the mechanics of its implementation. Unless we arrest the decline of housing standards in Glasgow, the problems faced by the committee will multiply and magnify.The problem of drug abuse, particularly in peripheral estates, is of most urgent concern to us and the Justice and Home Affairs Committee, which will have to become involved in those discussions. I would encourage our going to see the extent of the difficulties for ourselves. I sometimes like to think that I am pretty streetwise, but there are some areas of Glasgow that even I am unfamiliar with and I am sure that my ignorance will be categorically displayed when I am taken to far and distant places such as Dundee.This has been an encouraging start. The problems have been identified and I think that the committee has shown that it is committed to ameliorating them in some small way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 603028,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is any need for territorial warfare. This is the committee that is probably most involved in what we might call cross-cutting issues. I agree with the point about prioritising, but there is a great danger in getting bogged down in a lengthy inquiry into the first priority. I have seen that happen at Westminster. We cover many different issues, which is why I brought up the issue of working groups and cross-cutting committees, which should be urgently discussed in the committee of conveners—or the conveners of committees's committee, or whatever it is called.We want to get to grips with this important issue early. It may be that two or three members of this committee can, with members of other committees, set up a working group to examine a particular issue—say drugs—while others, such as Fiona, concentrate on the issue of homelessness. That would allow us to cover a lot of the different issues that are within our remit at one time, rather than tackle one issue at a time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 603030,
      "EditedText": "I believe that we can consider establishing sub-committees as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 603031,
      "EditedText": "Much of the work on the drugs question has been done already. It is only a couple of years since the Scottish Affairs Select Committee held a comprehensive inquiry into drugs in Scotland and looked at the decriminalisation and legalisation of cannabis. This committee should focus on the impact of drugs on poor areas, as the problem there is qualitatively different from that in the rest of the country. That would add to work that is already on the record and it is the kind of work that we can most usefully do There is no point going over all the Scottish Affairs Select Committee's work, as it went to America, to Holland—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 603032,
      "EditedText": "We are not doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C603033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McAllion: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 603033,
      "EditedText": "It went everywhere in the world except Scotland to look at Scotland's drug problem. We can focus on drugs as they impact on Scotland, and we should be trying to prioritise that issue. The United Nations recommended that every nation should develop a national strategy for the eradication of poverty, and this is one of the few nations that has not done that so far. A priority for this committee could be to suggest proposals for a strategy, as such strategies work in other countries. We will have to meet again, as we cannot decide this afternoon what the committee's priorities should be. We will have to go away, think about it and come back. Mike is quite right—there should be an early meeting so that we can focus on what we think the priorities should be and what can be done quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2118E157P454C603037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Quinan, Mr Lloyd",
      "ID": 2118,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Quinan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 603037,
      "EditedText": "If people from certain housing schemes—from the centre of Glasgow to Dundee, to Dumbarton, to Ayr—have the option of either a week's benefit, plus a tenner, or the potential to make £1,000 or £1,500 a week, what choice will they make? What choice are people making? We have to address the economics of the drugs issue—not just the economics of the costs to the health service or to the emergency services, or of the collateral damage in communities. We have to address where that money comes from and where it is going, and what the economic effect would be of the eradication of the drug problem in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 603039,
      "EditedText": "We will not work out the committee's work programme today, but it seems to me that there are two broad categories. There are very specific, discrete bits of work—on drugs, for example—and I agree with John that we should add value to what has been done rather than replicate it. We have mentioned a number of other areas where there is work to be done, and we should tackle them. The other category is the all-embracing, social inclusion, social justice, anti-poverty issue. We must develop a strategy. I see this committee's role as developing the Scottish anti-poverty strategy over the next few months. To kick that off, it would be useful to get an inventory of all the social inclusion and anti-poverty initiatives that have been set up in Scotland, either from the research department or from the department itself, as I do not think that anyone has the big picture of what is going on yet. The enterprise department knows what bodies such as Scottish Enterprise are doing; the local government people know what the local authorities are doing; the Scottish Office development department knows what the regeneration and social inclusion partnerships are doing; but I do not think that anyone has brought the whole thing together. Rather than repeating the poverty statistics, it would be extremely useful to conduct a mapping exercise of what is going on in Scotland now in relation to social inclusion initiatives, local anti-poverty strategies and so on, coupled with a briefing on what happens elsewhere—particularly in Ireland, the Netherlands, Finland and Sweden. It might also be useful to compare Scotland with the rest of Europe. For example, Eurostat, the European Union's statistical office in Luxembourg, produced a substantial report last Friday that showed that the gap between income and wealth in this country is among the worst in the EU. A summary of that analysis showing how we compare with the rest of the EU would be a useful briefing for the committee. It would also be useful to have a note of the department's structure. There is a development department and a Minister for Communities, but it would be useful to have an early definition of whether the development department alone is the department that deals with social inclusion, housing and local government, or whether the department is covered by two ministers. How is the departmental structure set up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 603040,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is what the department is offering us and the purpose of the visit is to explain a lot of that detail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18270,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 603041,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful if we could have an early visit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 603042,
      "EditedText": "Robert wants to come in, and then we will move on, unless anyone else wants to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 603046,
      "EditedText": "Although we say that the woolly jumpers leave at 5 o'clock, some of them do very valuable work in those communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 603048,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely, I know the point that you were making. I am sure that you intended no disrespect."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 603049,
      "EditedText": "I counted myself as one of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 603055,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to repeat a point that has been made already, but Mike and I have both made points about visits. That is tremendously important. I had a meeting with Scottish Drugs Forum last week, and there is a feeling that officials in the public health policy unit and at the Scottish Office and so on do not get out on the ground often enough. It is very important that we do. Much work has been done on drugs, but there is a great deal of concern about the imbalance of Government expenditure in favour of detection and the courts, for example. Three quarters of the money is allocated to them and only a quarter is spent on treatment and aftercare. Thousands of drug addicts are queueing up for treatment and not getting it. We must deal with that, as it is crucial for inner-city housing estates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 603057,
      "EditedText": "There is a very tall order for this paper for the next meeting. What is the committee's view about when next we should meet and what information we should try to have? We might be able to get quite a bit fairly quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 603059,
      "EditedText": "I would be sympathetic to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 603062,
      "EditedText": "We are suggesting different tiers of briefings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
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      "ContributionID": 603070,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603073",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 205.0,
      "ContributionID": 603073,
      "EditedText": "Some members cannot set a date now. We need to negotiate about this, but people will be around and at their desks for the next while. I hope that the journalists notice that we are not having 17 weeks' holiday. Thank you very much. That was a very constructive experience."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C603074",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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      "ContributionID": 603074,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:14."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C602975",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18267,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 602975,
      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 14:15"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C602988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 602988,
      "EditedText": "I am a member of the board of management of the Volunteer Centre in Glasgow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C602994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18269,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 602994,
      "EditedText": "Margaret Curran has intimated that she is the appropriate candidate. I take it that there are no other candidates. Would Ms Curran like an opportunity briefly to speak in support of her candidature?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C602995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
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      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Curran: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 602995,
      "EditedText": "Any politician can speak at length if given the opportunity to do so, but I will forgo that on this occasion."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C602999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18269,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Ms Margaret Curran): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 602999,
      "EditedText": "I will give Bill Aitken his name plate, in case anyone confuses us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2234E7P20C603000",
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      "ID": 3348
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Aitken, Bill",
      "ID": 2234,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bill Aitken: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 603000,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that there is too much danger of that."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603004",
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      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
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      "ID": 165
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 603004,
      "EditedText": "That is the list for the first year."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603005",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 603005,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Fiona. That was very helpful and will certainly keep us going for the first year. This meeting is due to finish at 3.15 pm. I know that a number of people have commitments after that, not least the arrangements that we all have for the official opening of the Parliament. I will do my best to get finished by 3.15 pm, although obviously everyone will be able to contribute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603006",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
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      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 603006,
      "EditedText": "I congratulate the convener on her appointment.First, I was glad that Fiona brought in the issue of rural affairs in her later remarks. I was concerned at the social inclusion seminar a week ago that we might be getting too Glasgow-oriented. Deprivation is not restricted to Glasgow, although it is a serious problem there. There are other cities and deprivation is also a major problem in rural areas, as I know only too well from my regional constituency. Secondly, as Fiona said, this committee has a broad remit, covering a large number of areas. The consultative steering group report recommended the setting up of working groups and made reference to cross-cutting committees. There are a number of areas in which other committees could be involved, of which one—on which I am party spokesman and which concerns me deeply—is drug misuse. I do not know whether this committee should take the initiative on that, but somebody has to. A cross-cutting committee would need to involve the members of this committee, the Health and Community Care Committee, the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and, possibly, the Justice and Home Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603008",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 603008,
      "EditedText": "We can consider two categories: subject areas and how we conduct our work. We will come back to how we work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603015",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
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      "ID": 18270,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 603015,
      "EditedText": "There is not much room for disagreement with what has been said. Everyone keeps adding to the list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 603019,
      "EditedText": "I will let Karen in in a moment, but I want to put my tuppence-worth in. I only hope that this role does not silence me.It is very strange to be agreeing with everyone—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.375744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 603034,
      "EditedText": "I will take a few more contributions and then I will come back to hard decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 603038,
      "EditedText": "I think that people who live with the drug problem have important things to say as they can speak volumes about the economics of drugs. We must hear that. I will take a few more general points and then I will move on, as it is almost 3 o'clock."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 603043,
      "EditedText": "I think that Alex's idea of an inventory is a great one. We all come at these issues from different perspectives and with different bits of knowledge about different areas. We must also get ourselves up to speed on what information is available. On drugs and other issues, Mike made the point that we should get a start point and a cache—if you like—of where we are going. The other question is how we develop priorities. To some extent, perhaps, you have a role, convener, to produce a paper—or to ask the clerks to produce a paper—for the next meeting. It should detail some of the issues and try to put them into order. Specific bits of work are outstanding and I am not keen to lose the opportunity to get ahead with things that make a difference at the expense of things that are further down the philosophical hierarchy. I think that that is the way forward.We should have an early meeting in the \"holiday\" period, which would allow us to make decisions and to move on to the working groups that have been talked about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2185E120P328C603045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Brown, Robert",
      "ID": 2185,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Robert Brown: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 603045,
      "EditedText": "The idea of a national strategy is fine, and I think that we need it. We must be careful that it is not top-down strategy and that we build it up from the bottom, empowering people in local areas. Within a broad context, there is a risk that we will be seen as a supercommittee at work, saying, \"Let's solve the problem.\""
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
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      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 603047,
      "EditedText": "You understand the point that I was making."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 603050,
      "EditedText": "There are many people who know their business. Although we may once have been of them, we are not any more. We must hear what they have to say. There are many stakeholders who have done significant work and who probably have papers ready to give us that ask us to do and think about various things. It would be improper of us to rush into things without giving those people clear access to our committee. They are well-informed and knowledgeable, and if they have done a lot of thinking and made recommendations, we do not need to go over that ground again.Robert is absolutely right: we should not approach this in a top-down way. What we do is about empowering the workers in this field as well as their communities, and we must be open and inclusive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 603054,
      "EditedText": "I understand that there will be a committee of conveners. I hope that it will meet very soon and give us a steer on sub-committees, inter-committee meetings and work programmes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C603061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 603061,
      "EditedText": "The date of that meeting will depend to some extent on when the briefing will be available, and people offering the briefing will obviously also have arrangements during July and August."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C603063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 603063,
      "EditedText": "I am not averse to meeting over the recess, but there is a practical problem, which was encountered at the joint meeting of the Finance Committee and the Audit Committee this morning, which is that people are all away at different times. The last thing we would want is for this committee, just as it is beginning to get off the ground, to have members absent so that some are more up to speed than others on a particular issue. That must be borne in mind. I disagree with Fiona's suggestion. I am not averse to it work-wise, but I do not think that it will be practical to have a rolling programme of meetings through the recess with people going away at various times. If there are going to be briefing sessions, they should be either early or late because, as we discovered this morning, that is more likely to accommodate most members."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Curran, Margaret",
      "ID": 1820,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 603065,
      "EditedText": "I am not averse to that. That suits my arrangements."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1820E139P227C603067",
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    },
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Baillieston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 603067,
      "EditedText": "That does not cut across any school holidays, and if it does I can manage my arrangements. We will try to meet in the next two weeks. Although it is probably a bit much to ask for a huge briefing, we will get something. Also, there are many papers that could be sent out and that we could read over the summer, even if we cannot meet formally."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1894E224P524C603068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Neil, Alex",
      "ID": 1894,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Neil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 603068,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps for our first meeting we should take up Mr MacKenzie's offer, and kill two birds with one stone, as it were."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:52.3913649+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C602984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18268,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18268,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 602984,
      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603003",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 603003,
      "EditedText": "I congratulate Margaret on her election as convener.One of the first issues that we must address is the committee's remit, which is very broad. Some of us have difficulty with the term social inclusion, and it is important when we are doing our work that we clearly identify the real problems that we are tackling: poverty, inequality and lack of opportunity. That is absolutely essential.I hope that the committee will be able to consider long-term strategies, particularly for housing and poverty. We should be aiming not just for long-term thinking and strategies, but for action. A great deal of analysis and information is already available, and there is a danger that this committee will overindulge in the analytical part of its work. As Margaret said, there is a great demand for immediate action on some issues.In particular, I would like to discuss action that we can take on housing. Because there is no housing bill before the Parliament, it is important that at an early stage we ask the minister for her thoughts on the direction of housing legislation over the coming years and months. It is also essential that we talk to the officials. We should consider the responses to the green paper and the report of the new housing partnership advisory group at an early stage. The English paper on housing benefits will also have a major impact. We can move on those things very quickly, and I hope that we will do so. Our priority should be scrutiny of the new housing partnership, because it is central to the Government's policy, particularly its stock transfer proposals. I call on the committee to examine the situation in Glasgow very soon, because even without new legislation there are issues for us to consider. That is particularly important because we are linking housing and social inclusion.We should also examine what will be delivered by the Government's social inclusion agenda. I have asked the minister about the homeless review and whether those responsible for it will report to this committee.  It is essential that they do. We should also consider fuel poverty and, in particular, dampness. We should consider the links between committees, as that is an issue that has been raised during the past few weeks. Domestic violence, for example, requires a housing response. We should consider that actively.I was interested to learn that the Rural Affairs Committee has highlighted poverty, employment and housing as issues that it wants to deal with. We should aim to link up with it. We should also ask our research support staff to look at the wider European dimension, particularly practice in Norway, Finland and Ireland on housing and social issues.Above all, we need to scrutinise finance. If we can take a responsible role in ensuring that finance put into this area reaches front-line services, we will be doing the people of Scotland a service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1773E197P503C603029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3348
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee",
      "ID": 165
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18270,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ID": 18270,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hyslop, Fiona",
      "ID": 1773,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona Hyslop: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 603029,
      "EditedText": "I strongly agree with that suggestion. The idea of a twin-track agenda is important, rather than an issue to be tackled discretely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:40.7395022+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12912,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12912,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 477649,
      "EditedText": "Phew!"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 12913,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12913,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 477651,
      "EditedText": "Getting straight to business, we have to declare any interest that might bias our views on local government. I am sure that most of us have a lot of experience in local government, but I take it that that does not constitute an interest. I get paid as a Westminster MP; although it makes me think how bad Westminster is, I do not think that it should bias my views on local government. Does anyone have an interest to declare?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 12913,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12913,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 477652,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 12913,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12913,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 477654,
      "EditedText": "My wife is a member of the highly successful West Lothian Council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 12914,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 12914,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 477662,
      "EditedText": "I nominate Trish Godman."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 12914,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12914,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 477665,
      "EditedText": "After my brief reign, I am very happy to exchange seats with Mrs Godman."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 477668,
      "EditedText": "Some of our agenda over the next few months is already clear: considering the McIntosh commission report will be a major part of our responsibility. I think that we will want early on to examine fully all the recommendations in the report. In considering McIntosh, we have to remember that a lot of very good practice already exists in local government and that a lot of high-quality services are delivered by local authorities throughout Scotland. The media concentrate on some of the errors that have been made in local government, but I think that local government has a very good record. In implementing some of McIntosh's recommendations, we have to build on existing good practice.It is right that this committee should consider local government finance. I know that there are many different views on that. As a former councillor, I know that the most recent reform of local government, which set up the unitary authorities, harmed many local authorities because of the changes in the way in which finance was distributed. In particular, a lot of the urban local authorities suffered. The authority of which I was a member suffered from the bad distribution of finance for social work.Another issue on which we will have to concentrate early on is the way in which we will relate to all the other subject committees; this committee will have to take a view on the way in which local government delivers different services. I give two examples: first, there will be significant developments in housing; and secondly, Glasgow City Council is currently considering an initiative that would lead to a closer working relationship between the health and social work services. We should take a view on those issues and we need to establish appropriate working relationships with the other committees of the Parliament.I hope that we can arrange, at an early opportunity, some meetings in which we can hear directly from many of the major players in local government, getting their views on how we should advance the committee's agenda. In particular, we should have an early opportunity to hear from Neil McIntosh about his various recommendations. We should listen to what the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities has to say and we should also give representatives of each of the local authorities the chance to speak to us directly. I hope that we can allocate time for that when we set the timetable for committee meetings. We may be able to have meetings in different parts of Scotland, to which we could invite either the council leader or a council representative to speak about their vision of the way in which local government should develop.Finally, we have to allow civic Scotland and all the people of Scotland an opportunity to influence the development of local government. However, at this early stage, it is important to hear what the local authorities think."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 477669,
      "EditedText": "That is a large agenda. What does anybody else think?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 12915,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 477670,
      "EditedText": "I agree with everything that Bristow said. It is important that we listen to as many views as possible. Because the McIntosh report will form such an overwhelming part of our discussions over the next few months, we may want to consider asking the Parliamentary Bureau whether we should have a sub-committee specifically to examine the report, so that we have time to deal with other issues.To add to what Bristow said, it is important that we interrelate with as many as possible of the other committees whose work will affect local government. Their work will impinge on what we do, and we do not want to narrow down our work to what other committees are not discussing. It is important that we discuss issues such as education and housing, which are fundamental parts of the work of local authorities. The Government's ethics legislation will also take up a lot of our time.In many ways, our agenda—certainly over the first year—is setting itself. It is important that we all work together. Although the other two Scottish National party members and I are huddling together for safety today, I am sure that we will all move around the table as things progress. We want to be as positive as possible; we will not sit here and snipe at the majority party for the sake of it. We want to try to get as much consensus as possible in the committee—as I said before, I agree with everything that Bristow said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
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      "ID": 12915,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 477671,
      "EditedText": "I am keen that this Local Government Committee should make it clear that we are not sitting in judgment of local government. We should send out positive signals about local government and our relationship with it. One of our main jobs will be to manage that relationship. We must ensure that we see local government and ourselves as equal players, delivering good-quality government at every level. The big challenges for the Scottish Parliament are to ensure that it does not suck up powers to itself and does not have local government stand condemned. Local government, surviving the past 20 years, did its very best by ordinary people who—not to be party political about it—were clearly suffering badly because of political decisions from the centre.We must reassert our confidence in the idea and purpose of local government. At its democratic base, local government is about being responsive at a local level in a way that it is impossible for us to be. We must have confidence in that; we must look positively at how we can give people in local government the space to do their job properly.I am keen that we send out a strong signal that we want to work with local government and to manage the relationship positively as something to celebrate. McIntosh talks a lot about that. We have to develop that relationship.We at this level are on a learning curve about how we should manage ourselves. There is work to be done on that and we will do it. However, the key point—that local services should reflect local priorities—should be at the heart of whatever we discuss, and I will be happy if that happens.I would be keen, if we have the opportunity, to talk to Neil McIntosh and the other people who were involved in producing the report. Like other members here, I want to talk to people who have a key role in local government. Obviously, we would also like to hear from folk who work or have worked in local government and from users of local government services."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 477672,
      "EditedText": "There is a great chance that there will be remarkable consensus in this committee. I agree that we want to build up local government. We should identify best practice and encourage people to use it. We should also increase the self-confidence of local government while monitoring what goes wrong.I was encouraged to hear the convener say that the committee should have its own agenda, which need not necessarily be the same as the Executive's. I suspect that, because of the McIntosh report, the Executive may announce on Friday that it wishes to have consultation on issues A, B and C and that it hopes that we will conduct that consultation. I have no objection to that, but we must have our own agenda, which may not be the same. On finance, there are short-term issues about dividing up the cake, but we should not lose sight of the longer-term issue—McIntosh's recommendation for an all-embracing review of local government finance. That exercise may take several years, but we must look for long-term and short-term gains.Yesterday, a colleague pointed out that the McIntosh commission had visited his area twice and had had long discussions with the local council. We do not want a third innings of exactly the same thing, but on the other hand we do want to have discussions with councils and others who are involved in the development of McIntosh's recommendations. We will need to carry people with us. Those of us who are enthusiastic about proportional representation—and especially a particular form of PR—must carry people with us and convert them.I know that some councils are unhappy that employees can become councillors. I am very keen that they should be able to do so, but I know that others are not, so we must persuade them. We have the difficult exercise of trying to carry councils without rehashing all their discussions with McIntosh. We must steer our way with some care in deciding how we consult people. We want to build on the consensus in Scottish local government about powers of general competence and about doing more good work. The outlook is very encouraging, but we must do a lot of hard work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 477673,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to anticipate what the Executive will say on Friday, but Donald has mentioned the possibility that some aspects of the local government review will be carried out by independent bodies. We should decide from the outset that, if that is the case, we, too, should take a view on the outcomes of those reviews. We should look at any aspect of the McIntosh report or of wider local government issues that the Executive wants other bodies to consider. It is important that we set down that marker."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 477677,
      "EditedText": "I would like to come in on the back of what Colin said. He mentioned that community councils have had a bumpy ride. I have declared an interest in them. They have had a bumpy ride, but I think that there is potential, which we should use. The village of Alness won the Scotland in Bloom competition; that was done because a proactive community council went out to get additional funding. It did not cost Highland Council very much; in fact, it took a burden from its back. I often think that there is a great future in community councils becoming proactive and getting involved. They can help to relieve hard-pressed budgets, and so I put down that marker.I would like to look beyond McIntosh. I come from the Highlands—a colossal council area the size of Wales and nearly the size of Belgium. There is a feeling in the more far-flung parts of the Highlands that the reform of local government did not do places such as Caithness any great favours. I put down two markers. First, the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994 required each unitary authority to establish a scheme of decentralisation. I think that this committee should consider decentralisation and review its application in Scotland, trying to identify best practice. There is a feeling in the Highlands that decisions are very often made far away. That is dangerous because ordinary people feel less and less involved in the democratic process and that bothers me.Secondly—and you can keep me right on this, convener—all of us who were councillors have had problems with the boundary commissions. Some of their decisions do not make a lot of sense. The geography of the Highlands—where the boundary commissions play a numbers game rather than a space game—causes enormous difficulty. Recently, chunks of Caithness and Ross and Cromarty were moved into the Sutherland administrative area, which is causing enormous local upset. I dare say that similar problems have arisen in the Borders as well. I would welcome advice from the convener, but I think that we should take a view on that issue if we can. What has happened in the past—particularly in the Highlands—is not right and we should go back and examine it. Secretaries of state did not often exercise their power to review boundary commission proposals. I assume that that power has now come to this Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 477680,
      "EditedText": "One of the McIntosh recommendations is that local government boundaries should take natural community boundaries into account. We all have experience of the boundary commission setting a boundary along some bizarre, zigzag line up and down a street, round a corner and all over the place. A part of my former ward has been in three different wards and I have had to vote at three different schools over the past three elections. One was up this hill, one was up that hill and one was up another hill. That has had an adverse effect on electoral turnout. The issue is extremely important not only for rural Scotland, but for urban Scotland. People will always want to identify themselves with a specific community. The numbers game has been emphasised far too much.Colleagues have mentioned community councils. We should also consider tenants associations, and we should not look at community councils as a mass. As we are all aware, some community councils are exceptionally well run and some effectively exist only on paper so—before we pass any responsibilities on to community councils—we must expect them to show that they are working effectively and responsibly and that they have arranged training for their members.In support of what other members—Johann in particular—have said, it is very important that we accept the issues of subsidiarity and equality in local government. In the run-up to the Parliament, the media said that we would not have much to do. I do not know how they managed to get that idea, but they seem to be continuing in that vein. I do not think that we should be looking to take powers from local government. The SNP would resist that, as would other parties in the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 477687,
      "EditedText": "Yes, I agree with that.We have had a good discussion and I am pleased that we seem to have the same goal, although we have different ways of reaching it. Members have made a few suggestions. Kenny has suggested a sub-committee to consider the McIntosh report. I suggest that we think about that and wait until the statement comes out on Friday.Donald suggested that we have an agenda when we go out to meet councils and councillors. We should also have an agenda when people give evidence to the committee. There are many groups that I am sure we would be interested to meet, such as the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. Some of us have been councillors and we know that if there is no agenda people can sit for three hours without discussing anything.This will be a committee with a heavy work load. There is a lot that we must discuss: McIntosh has been mentioned, but there are other matters, as Bristow said, such as links with other committees and investigating their decisions to see how we relate to them. MSPs can attend other committee meetings and, if the convener allows, take part in the debate, although we cannot vote. We might find that that is necessary. I suggest that we meet in the recess. Given that we are supposed to be a family-friendly Parliament, I understand that the last two weeks in August would be the easiest, as kids would probably be back in school. I am not suggesting that we meet every day for the last two weeks of the recess, but it might be more helpful if we waited until then. I need members' permission to consult the clerks and to send out information about the times and dates of those meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477696",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 477696,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we meet weekly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477698",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 477698,
      "EditedText": "The clerks tell me that there is a facility to meet if something crops up. Initially, we should try to arrange a Wednesday morning slot at the end of August. If Wednesday morning is not possible, we must consider other times. I understand that we will be in the chamber all day on Thursdays. I am not sure if that means that members can come to a committee meeting if they are not voting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 477703,
      "EditedText": "I suggest 18 and 25 August for meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 477705,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has advised me that, under normal circumstances, we would meet fortnightly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 477708,
      "EditedText": "We have a lot to get through and many people to speak to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 477710,
      "EditedText": "It does not have to be at the same time; we can slot committees in at different times.I am inclined to stick with weekly meetings at the moment. I know that that might present the clerks with problems of space and timetabling—there are 16 committees to be fitted in, although some of them will not meet weekly. We should give it our best shot. Already the clerks are looking at me with furious expressions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 477711,
      "EditedText": "One of those meetings might present an opportunity for us to travel outwith Edinburgh. I understand that Sylvia cannot make 18 August, but perhaps on 25 August we could arrange for local authorities to come and speak to us. We will not be committed to coming back to Parliament in the afternoon of 25 August, so then would be a good opportunity to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 477717,
      "EditedText": "We can raise that with the bureau."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 477722,
      "EditedText": "I think that the first meeting should be informal. There will be many issues and we must decide how we will prioritise and treat them. The first meeting in the recess should be less formal and we could hold formal meetings after that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 477727,
      "EditedText": "Yes, that would be sent to members for committee work and members can ask for a briefing on particular parts of McIntosh, such as the section on proportional representation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 477728,
      "EditedText": "There are about 300 McIntosh submissions on the internet and more are being put on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 477734,
      "EditedText": "There are two clerks and two reporters and it would be nice if their names could be displayed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 477738,
      "EditedText": "We will discuss McIntosh informally at our next meeting, but part of the discussion will be deciding whether it is appropriate to discuss the report as a full committee, or whether a sub-committee should be formed to examine that area in particular and come back to us. You are right: we would not be talking about the report if McIntosh had not made his recommendations a couple of weeks ago—we would be talking about different things and saying that we would need to look at McIntosh once the report came out. It is encouraging that around the room there is an absolute commitment to local government, which will not be challenged. We might challenge some local government working practices and we will need to consider carefully issues such as finance and whether there should be a move to a system of proportional representation, but there is a commitment to democratically elected local people doing the business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 477739,
      "EditedText": "It would be nice if that statement could be publicised, as there is a fear that we are going to pull responsibility for education away from local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477740",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 477740,
      "EditedText": "A statement will be made on Friday, as members know, and the issue will then be opened up for debate. I would be encouraged if as many members of the committee as possible could contribute to that debate to make the kind of comments that we have made today, talking up local government. That would be good. Thank you for coming along today. If I do not see you before the recess, have a nice holiday and enjoy yourselves tomorrow. I hope that you will all be wearing hats."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C477647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12912,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12912,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 477647,
      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 10:48"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12912,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12912,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 477648,
      "EditedText": "Let us make a start. We have an apology from Keith Harding, who is unable to be here. The other 10 members are present. Until we elect a convener, I take the chair as the oldest member."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 12913,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12913,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 477655,
      "EditedText": "I am a member of the General, Municipal and Boilermakers trade union group of MSPs, which I should declare because the GMB has members in local government. However, I derive no financial benefit from the position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 12914,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 12914,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 477663,
      "EditedText": "Is anyone otherwise minded?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C477664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 12914,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 12914,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 477664,
      "EditedText": "Trish Godman was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 12914,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 12914,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Trish Godman): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 477666,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Donald, and thank you all for your vote of confidence. I hope that I will be saying that at the end of the parliamentary session and at the end of this meeting.Before I move on to the next part of the agenda, which is the remit of this committee, I want to abuse the role of chair slightly—not by putting forward my position, but by talking generally about the committee and how I think we should move forward. I hope that our deliberations will be constructive and useful; indeed, I am sure that they will be. I also hope that the reports and recommendations that the committee produces will have an impact. By that, I do not mean that we should produce anodyne reports that could have been written by the Executive—that is not what I am about. This is a committee of the Parliament and of the people of Scotland; we are not an extension of the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 477667,
      "EditedText": "The remit of the Local Government Committee is:\"To consider and report on matters relating to local government\".An addition to the remit says that we should consider and report on the\"administration of the Scottish Administration/Executive\".That is a wide-ranging remit, which, in tandem with our authority to initiate legislation relating to local government, places us in a powerful position to influence the structure and functions of local government into the 21st century. We should all remember that in our deliberations; membership of this committee is a responsible position. I want the debate to be as wide as possible. I want either to invite all interested parties to come here, or for us to go and speak to them; I want the same to go for ordinary members of the public. In those ways, we can ensure that local authority services are delivered in the most effective way.Some of us have local authority experience; like me, some have worked in public service and then moved into an elected position. I can say with confidence that round this table there will be 100 per cent commitment to public services through democratically elected local government. We start from that base and we are all together. We will have some heated debates—I hope that we do—but I hope that we will conduct them in a friendly way. I reiterate that we are a committee of this Parliament; we are not an extension of the Executive. We are independent, although sometimes we will, of course, listen to what the Executive has to say.Before I ask for your comments on the remit, and for your suggestions on the kinds of things that you would like us to discuss, I remind you that on Friday morning there will be a statement from the Executive that will be relevant to this committee. I have no idea what will be in that statement, but we should keep in mind the fact that it is coming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 477674,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone disagree with that? Colin?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 477675,
      "EditedText": "I was going to say something else. Johann made the point that people in local government will be afraid that we in this institution are going to take powers to ourselves. We must make it clear that that is not the ball game. The ball game is to have a good, working local government system which delivers and in which people feel involved. We talked about institutions, organisations and consultation. I put a marker down for community councils, which have had a bumpy passage over the years for a number of reasons. I want to make sure that they are included in all this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 477676,
      "EditedText": "On Colin's point, obviously one of the main things in the McIntosh report is the relationship of the Scottish Parliament with local government. It strikes me that the consultation process that this committee wants to conduct—how we will go out to different areas in Scotland—could blaze a trail for a wider process of linking the Parliament and local government. We must think about the process of addressing the issues in the McIntosh report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 477678,
      "EditedText": "I assume so. We will get a note on that.I would like to pick up the point—which I endorse—about community councils. I want to broaden the discussion to include community groups, which should also be involved. I was slightly disappointed that the McIntosh report talked particularly about community councils. Although there are good examples of such councils, there are some rather questionable examples in larger cities—some community councils there do not meet, although it would appear on paper that they do. The activists in those communities are the tenants associations, voluntary organisations and others. If we want to speak to civic Scotland, we must include those groups in our agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C477682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 477682,
      "EditedText": "I would hate to see us all become partisan and pitching for Glasgow, or the Highlands or somewhere else. It is recognised that different parts of the country have different needs.Scotland is such a diverse place—it has four cities and a lot of room in between. We need to look particularly at boundaries and communities. We must home in on the diversity in Scotland and—for the first time, as far as I am concerned—construct a local government system that works for everybody. I would hate to see us all work from our own corners on this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C477688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 477688,
      "EditedText": "I will not be here in early August."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477691",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 477691,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we would be starting towards the end of August."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C477692",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 477692,
      "EditedText": "Good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477693",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 477693,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we bid for a Wednesday morning slot, if that suits everybody."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477699",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 477699,
      "EditedText": "I think so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 477704,
      "EditedText": "The European Committee is meeting on 18 August at 10:30."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 477706,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that that would be adequate, considering the volume of work. Certainly initially, we should meet more often than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C477707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 477707,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we can have fortnightly meetings in the long term, but initially we should try to meet weekly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 477709,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to be awkward about this, but I would like to attend the meeting, so 18 August would not be any good at all if I had to attend another committee at the same time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 477712,
      "EditedText": "Leave that with me. The fact that we do not necessarily need to meet in this building on that day is a good point. We could arrange to be somewhere where representatives of two or three councils could attend."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 477713,
      "EditedText": "Parliament has not yet debated that issue. Do we have the freedom to move around the country at this stage?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 477715,
      "EditedText": "We would be happy to move around. Obviously, if we met every Wednesday morning it would be difficult for us to move around on a regular basis because we would clash with the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 477719,
      "EditedText": "Realistically, it would be perfectly reasonable to hold the first couple of meetings here, to get things planned out. We need to know what we are looking for when we go to meet folk elsewhere—that takes planning. We should say that we want to meet weekly because of the volume of work and that we would like to have the opportunity to move outwith Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 477724,
      "EditedText": "When does the Executive plan to hold meetings of the Parliament between now and Christmas? It will be difficult for the clerks and the committee to consider weekly meetings on a set day if the Parliament meets on different days."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 477733,
      "EditedText": "We have given ourselves a comprehensive work load, but I am sure that we will manage it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 477735,
      "EditedText": "I was going to introduce everyone when I was summing up. I do not know whether civil servants are used to that practice, but in the council committees that I attended, everybody was introduced. There is nothing worse than looking at someone who is probably going to do as much work as we will, if not more, and not knowing their name.I have been informed that this is an interim arrangement and that the clerks will change, so we will have to get the new clerks to introduce themselves once that has happened. The clerks today are Craig Harper and Lynn Tullis. The official reporters are Polly Mackenzie and Ellen Jackson. Behind them are Elizabeth Watson, head of the committee office, and Jenny Goldsmith, who provides administrative support. Mark Taplin is another official reporter. I will reintroduce everyone once we have the new set of staff, whose names will be confirmed by the time we get back. Are there any other points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 477737,
      "EditedText": "That is why I suggested that we ask the bureau to allow us to establish a sub-committee. Otherwise, we will end up wading in McIntosh. The full committee will want to discuss the report, but we also want to discuss the nitty-gritty in a sub-committee if possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C477741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12915,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 477741,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:32."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Local Government Committee<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 12912,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 12912,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ContributionID": 477650,
      "EditedText": "I have told my only joke about that in another committee meeting, so I will not tell it again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 12913,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12913,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 477653,
      "EditedText": "At home, I am a member of Tain Community Council."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 12913,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 477656,
      "EditedText": "I have no interest to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 12913,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12913,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 477657,
      "EditedText": "I am married to a Glasgow Labour councillor and I worked for 20 years in local government, so I have a fairly positive attitude towards it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C477658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 12913,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12913,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 477658,
      "EditedText": "I run a company that supplies high-tech coatings to a number of councils and police departments. I do not know if that could cause a conflict of interests but, if the issue seems relevant, I will certainly mention it to the committee at the appropriate time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 12913,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12913,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 477659,
      "EditedText": "I am leader of the amalgamated union of former SNP councillors, of which my two colleagues here are also members. My mother is a councillor in Glasgow, so if we do not get things right she will stop my pocket money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 12913,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ID": 12913,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 477660,
      "EditedText": "I am a former councillor, like most of us here, and I have two children who are employed in education in Scottish councils but, apart from that, I have no particular interest to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 12914,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 12914,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 477661,
      "EditedText": "The next task is to choose a convener. The Parliament has laid down that the convener is to be a Labour member. May I have a proposal please?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C477679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 477679,
      "EditedText": "I agree with much of what you said, convener. Local government is at the sharp end of anything that is happening. Councillors and council officials get it in the neck all the time. The fact that this committee is setting up now is not only a great opportunity, but it comes at an opportune moment. The McIntosh report has come out and we are going to be extremely busy. Its remit is wide ranging and I agree with much of what has been said.Over the years, councils' confidence has been eroded. They feel that people do not like them any more, but I do not think that the public feels that way. It sees the local council as the first door of opportunity to get something done. The McIntosh report is going to be fundamental to what we will do over the next few months and I welcome it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 477681,
      "EditedText": "It has already been said that local government reorganisation has not done the Highlands any great service. There is a very strong feeling that local government reorganisation did not do Glasgow any great service either, and as a Glasgow MSP it would be remiss of me not to ensure that that was on the record. If we do not go looking for views in Glasgow—and, I am sure, in other parts of the country—they will be brought to our attention because there is a feeling that burdens are laid unevenly at certain doors. We should be open to that. Among Glasgow MSPs, there is a strong feeling that a special case should be argued for Glasgow. We will have to address that issue, whether we seek it or it is brought to us. We should examine that because there are areas where quite straightforward recommendations that would make a difference could be made—even if we do not consider revisiting the boundaries issue. There are other things that can be done and I hope that we will find time to examine them at some stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 477683,
      "EditedText": "I would like to mention community councils and other community groups. In my area there are quite well-established area forums and an assembly. The assembly is working in a way that is very similar to how we hope the civic forum will work—in parallel with the Scottish Parliament. We should consider how important something like an assembly can be in directing councils to what civic society sees as the issues. That brings in the importance of the diversity that Gil mentioned. There is tremendous potential there, so I would really like that to be examined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C477684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 477684,
      "EditedText": "I want make two points in response to what Kenneth and Johann said. I do not think that members have any desire to take powers away from local government; quite the reverse. Local government has the opportunity to expand its role into areas where it currently has no responsibility. I do not think that that will be an issue.Earlier, we talked about health, beginning with services to the elderly and the overlap between health and social services. Local government must work closely with the health service on the agenda to improve Scotland's health. We need to explore how that relationship works; it is an area in which local government can increase its influence.The finance issue has been mentioned by a few members. Local government should be financed on the basis of its needs—that is Johann's point. Glasgow City Council's funding from central Government has probably suffered in recent years on the basis of comparison of social need. We should address that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 477685,
      "EditedText": "There is another aspect with which we should keep in touch: although the voluntary sector falls under a different committee, it is a major player in local authority activity, providing services, such as those for the elderly and the disabled. Our consultation should take account of that and we should help councils to help the voluntary sector. Twenty years of cuts in council budgets have often meant a disproportionate cut in their support of voluntary organisations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 477686,
      "EditedText": "One of the problems is that citizens feel that consultation has been a meaningless exercise—it is something that happens although a decision has already been made. We hear, but do not listen, and then act. If we can do something to get rid of that notion, so that people feel that what they are saying is being heard and that some of it is being acted upon and that they are not being politically manipulated, it will go a long way towards turning around public perception of councils and politicians. It is part of our duty to alter that perception at every level. We must listen to people, hear their views, act on some of them and be seen to act."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 477689,
      "EditedText": "That is bound to be the case for some members; as long as we are quorate we will go with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C477690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 477690,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about the end of August, not the beginning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C477694",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Several Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 477694,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477695",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 477695,
      "EditedText": "Do you intend the committee to meet weekly or fortnightly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477697",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 477697,
      "EditedText": "I think that that is appropriate given the volume of work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477700",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 477700,
      "EditedText": "We need to clarify that before sending out information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C477701",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Several Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 477701,
      "EditedText": "We will let you sort that out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 477702,
      "EditedText": "I will speak to the clerks about it after the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 477714,
      "EditedText": "I do not know. I will check that out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0505043+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 477716,
      "EditedText": "I have just been informed that location needs the approval of the bureau and that we will not get that in the recess—they go off and do not do any work.  We cannot move around until after 31 August, but we can have a meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2110E214P424C477718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gibson, Kenneth",
      "ID": 2110,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gibson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 477718,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the bureaucracy of the bureau means that it will not be able to take a decision before 2 July."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C477720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 477720,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we could also use COSLA accommodation if there is a problem here; councillors are used to doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 477721,
      "EditedText": "I need to establish whether these meetings will be informal or formal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 477723,
      "EditedText": "If we hold a meeting at the end of August—on 18 August, for the sake of argument—it would be an informal discussion on the Executive statement on McIntosh and where we go from there.We are saying that we need agendas for going out and about, but we also need agendas for ourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 477725,
      "EditedText": "Committee meetings are currently scheduled for Tuesdays and Wednesdays.Do we agree that the first meeting will be informal—no one will be invited to give evidence—and that we will examine the Executive statement and the wider issues raised by the McIntosh report?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 477726,
      "EditedText": "Can we be given background information before that? I am thinking about the research report on proportional representation and other relevant information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 477729,
      "EditedText": "Some of us are still learning how to use the internet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1950E155P451C477730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Campbell, Colin",
      "ID": 1950,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Colin Campbell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 477730,
      "EditedText": "Have you cracked it yet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C477731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 477731,
      "EditedText": "I can do e-mail."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C477732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 477732,
      "EditedText": "The important ones to consider are the research reports that go with the McIntosh report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C477736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Local Government Committee, 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2694
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Local Government Committee",
      "ID": 147
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 12915,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ID": 12915,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Stone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 477736,
      "EditedText": "I want to make a plea. McIntosh lies before us and it is an enormous topic—everything it says has implications—but I hope that we will not concentrate only on McIntosh. I am coming at this from the perspective of local government finance; there are other areas that we should consider, such as the section 94 rules on capital consent. I hope that this committee will not be wall-to-wall Neil McIntosh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:14.0661322+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2606",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presentation of Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 41,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 41,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 2606,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, Mr Welsh and Mr Watson. This is a historic meeting because it is not only the first joint meeting of parliamentary committees but the first meeting at which someone has presented a bill. I am very proud to be in that situation. If anyone had told me that I would spend my 39th birthday sitting in front of a finance and audit committee talking about financial accounting procedures after I had failed my first-year accountancy exams at university, I would not have believed them, but there we are.As I said last Thursday, I am looking forward to working closely with the Parliament as a whole, with the two committees in particular and, for that matter, with the Opposition spokespersons on finance, in what I hope will be a constructive relationship. This bill is important, but maintaining such a constructive relationship is equally important and I want to develop it positively. I hope that this will be the first of many appearances in front of the joint meeting—or in front of either committee.The memorandum contains a lot of detail. I want to highlight some of the background and then the specific points that we can address today, over the summer and in the autumn. We have a tight timetable. Although it is not essential for Parliament to pass the bill in its final form by the end of this year, I think that—as a point of principle—the procedures and audit arrangements should be in place for the final budget bill for the next financial year. That should happen in early 2000. Therefore, although the bill does not need to be passed until 31 March 2000, I think that it is important to have it approved by the end of this year.To that end, we plan—following today's meeting—to go out to consultation over the summer. I want to make clear to the committee my hope and intention to present the final bill for debate, discussion and amendment in the Parliament and in these committees by early September.The bill's proposals, which are in the document before the committee today and which we will take out to consultation over the summer, are based on the recommendations of the financial issues advisory group and the consultative steering group, which endorsed those recommendations. It was important for an independent body to make those recommendations, because the bill's proposals and the financial and audit arrangements are important to the whole Parliament, not just to the Executive. That body of work has been helpful to us and I want to repeat my thanks of last Thursday to the members of FIAG for all their work.Committee members may want to raise other issues this morning, but I want to target attention on four or five key areas. First, I want to highlight the legislative process for budgets and budget amendments. In the memorandum, I have raised a specific point about the use of the word amendments. If we are trying to be transparent and clear about what we are doing, it is not helpful to give two completely different meanings to the word \"amendment\". It would be more helpful to use \"amendment\" to mean changes to actual legislation and to use a different word to describe agreed changes to the Parliament's budget.That highlights a substantive issue about using primary or secondary legislation for budgets. FIAG earnestly proposed that primary legislation should be used both for the Executive's initial budget to be agreed by the Parliament and for any budget adjustments, revisions or amendments over the year. In the autumn, any committee discussion of the consultation exercises should at least address the principle of using primary legislation for the main budget. I am very comfortable with the proposal but I am interested to know whether committee members agree with it.However, the substantive issue concerns budget adjustments. I want to draw the committee's attention to the fact that, if budget adjustments have to be approved by primary legislation, there is a four-week period during which the law officers can refer a bill passed by the Scottish Parliament to the Privy Council for adjudication should they be concerned about the bill's content and our powers to legislate on the matter. The law officers might never use that power, but if they do, it could delay implementation of the Parliament's financial decisions in a way that perhaps contradicts the very principle of the Parliament making financial decisions. It might be more accountable and democratic to devise a system of parliamentary scrutiny of and decision making on budget adjustments based on the principles of secondary legislation, which still give full scrutiny powers to the Finance Committee in the main and to the Parliament as a whole and avoid that possible four-week lag before a decision is implemented. That would also strengthen the Scottish Parliament's power, instead of running it down. I think that that is an area in which dialogue would be useful and I suggest that we discuss it today and over the summer.I want briefly to address the proposals for audit arrangements. The FIAG report recommended a specific structure for the relationship between the Accounts Commission, the new Auditor General for Scotland and the new body, Audit Scotland. The proposed arrangement has some technical difficulties, particularly the need for financial and other transactions and the relationships between Audit Scotland as a separate body, the Auditor General for Scotland's office, which will work for the Parliament, and the controller of audit at the Accounts Commission, which will work on local authority audit. Such a relationship may also have VAT difficulties.We have a number of possible options to deal with the situation. There is the extreme option of scrapping the whole idea and simply having the Accounts Commission with the controller of audit, and Audit Scotland with the Auditor General for Scotland as two separate bodies, the first dealing with local authority audits and the second with Government audits. Another option suggests a more managerial relationship. The controller of audit would still work with the Accounts Commission while the staff of Audit Scotland would be managed directly by the Auditor General for Scotland. The controller of audit would commission work from the staff of the Auditor General, who would effectively be the chief executive of Audit Scotland. A further option is to make the controller of audit the chief executive of Audit Scotland and act almost as a deputy to the Auditor General, with the Accounts Commission as a body scrutinising and commissioning local authority audits, but with the staff of both bodies involved in one managerial relationship.As of today, I do not have a firm view about which of those options we should choose. As well as putting the matter out for written consultation, I am meeting representatives from the Accounts Commission in July as part of the consultation over the summer. I would also welcome any questions or views on those options from the committees today. We will need to come back to this issue at the end of the summer.I want to touch on three other areas. The issue of ministerial powers of direction for the detailed layout of accounts is to some extent a legal matter. As yet, we do not have absolutely clear legal advice on whether the power to direct the format of accounts should lie with individual Executive ministers—be it the First Minister or the Minister for Finance—or with the Scottish Ministers as a whole. However, I think that there is an issue about the role that either the Audit Committee or the Finance Committee and the Parliament could play in deciding the layout of accounts. As the Parliament ultimately receives the accounts, it should—through its committees—have a view about the layout of accounts to ensure maximum transparency and accountability.I strongly believe that, apart from formal civic organisations meeting committees—and the Finance Committee in particular—as part of each year's consultation on the budget of the Executive and the Parliament, the Executive should consult the people of Scotland on its budget and that that should be done as openly and transparently as possible, partly as an information exercise. Local populations find the information work done by most local authorities in Scotland on annual budgets helpful, informative and useful and the Scottish Executive should follow that trend. Members of the public should be able to give feedback on or contribute good ideas about our budget proposals so that we can take them into account. I hope that the committee will contribute views to or ask questions about that point.Some aspects of the FIAG report are already covered in the standing orders and other aspects will be included in the bill, but a number of areas in the report are not appropriate for statute or legislation. Rather than make them the subject of Executive or parliamentary decision making, I propose that they should be the subject of written understandings between the Executive and the Parliament, which would be similar to the concordats that have been discussed and are expected to be implemented later this summer between the new Scottish Government and the UK Government at Westminster.A written understanding on some of those areas between these two committees, on behalf of the Parliament, and me, on behalf of the Executive, would be very useful, make clear where the Executive and the committees stand and ensure that we have a productive and constructive relationship. I am glad to be here today to take questions on points of information first, and then to discuss the issues. It is vital that we in the Scottish Parliament vigorously debate political choices and that we debate their financial implications where those exist. I also think that we can work together on many budget matters, on financial matters and, certainly, on audit—as representatives of different political parties, as parliamentarians and as members of the Executive—to ensure the fundamental principles of accountability, transparency and efficiency. Those principles allow us to spend money in the interests of Scotland to the maximum effect. If we follow those principles together, in a constructive relationship, we will do very well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2608",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 2608,
      "EditedText": "The Government's conclusion seems to be that it broadly accepts the FIAG report, but we have an interest to know what the Government does not accept—that has not been made clear. There is perhaps an ancillary issue, which Mr Swinney may wish to address: the minister's interpretation of what the FIAG report raises. Will the minister answer the first question: what parts of FIAG does the Government not accept?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2609",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 2609,
      "EditedText": "There are two principal matters that we would wish to discuss over the summer, rather than accept at this stage. The first is the issue of primary and secondary legislation for budget bills and budget adjustments or revisions. I have laid before the committees my reasons for raising that issue. From the point of view of parliamentary scrutiny and accountability, secondary legislation might be more democratic and suitable for adjustments or revisions. That is a matter that we wish to discuss with the committees, and I hope that we will deal with it in a constructive and positive manner. The second matter that requires further discussion over the summer—particularly with the auditing bodies and the bodies that are audited—is the arrangements for Audit Scotland, the Auditor General, the controller of audit and the Accounts Commission and the relationships between them. The FIAG made a specific proposal on that matter. I have tried to outline this morning the technical, financial and almost bureaucratic difficulties with that model, which could perhaps be dealt with by choosing a slightly different managerial relationship. While I, as Minister for Finance, have an interest in having the most efficient audit arrangements possible for the Parliament and elsewhere, that matter is in many respects ultimately more the preserve of the Audit Committee. That is why I have flagged the matter up for comment today. I hope to keep in regular contact, in particular with Mr Welsh, as consultations proceed over the summer. Responsibility for receiving reports from the auditors will ultimately lie with Mr Welsh's committee rather than with me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2610",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 2610,
      "EditedText": "We will return to those substantive points later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2624",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 2624,
      "EditedText": "Minister to tackle cynicism. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2625",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 2625,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to overstate the significance or extent of this part of the document. There is a large number of technical and political—with a small p—matters that committees and the Parliament have to look at. I do not want this one small paragraph to detract attention from those other matters. I would like to give Mr Adam two very firm assurances. First, I have never mentioned the words \"focus group\" in relation to this particular proposal, although if we are telling local authorities to look at citizens' juries or panels and similar mechanisms without doing that ourselves in some areas of expenditure or services, then perhaps we are being inconsistent. I do not like the idea of private focus groups, but public citizens' panels could be the bodies to take an interest in our annual budget deliberations. That is one possible option.Secondly, I give a categorical assurance that, while I think that consultation should be informed and should be based on specific proposals or options so that people have something on which to comment, I would not waste anyone's time by consulting after decisions have been made. If that suggestion is ever made, I will have no part of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2627",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 2627,
      "EditedText": "Agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2630",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 2630,
      "EditedText": "The third set of questions is on the section regarding written understandings not covered in the proposed bill or in the interim standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2632",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 2632,
      "EditedText": "The question of when is up for discussion. I plan to meet the conveners of the appropriate committees over the summer to set a timetable for written understandings to be produced and agreed. How enforceable they will be is a matter for ourselves, collectively. I would not want to say—partly because I do not know the answer—whose would be the ultimate responsibility. I presume that in some cases it would be the Executive and in some cases the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Given the constructive way that this discussion has gone, it would be a tragedy if we got to a stage in the autumn where either the SPCB or the bureau were making some decisions about financial decision making, the Executive was making others, and the two were at loggerheads. It would be much better if I, on behalf of the Executive, and the committees, on behalf of the Parliament, could make those agreements, and agree on how they would be enforced. We have a corporate responsibility to make that work in practice.I have no written plans or proposals for that, but I believe that if we have a good discussion and operate in a constructive format, then we will be able to address these issues in the autumn. If there are disagreements at that stage I imagine that the SPCB, and perhaps the Executive, would need to be involved in resolving them, but I do not anticipate our getting to that stage, even though these are the kinds of matters where there will be political and individual disagreement.A more serious issue than my taking on board the views of the committee is that of the Executive taking on board the views of the Parliament regarding the budget proposals. As FIAG clearly said, the Parliament will have a veto in relation to any budget that is proposed. The Executive must propose a budget that is consistent and coherent in its entirety. The FIAG report makes it clear that there should be an eight-month period of two stages in which there is widespread consultation and then discussion inside the Parliament and its committees of the possible content of the budget and of the Executive proposals. When the budget bill is brought forward in January of each year, the Parliament and committees can again comment on that bill and propose positions, but only the Executive can propose amendments. There will not be a series of individual amendments that might be financially inconsistent.Ultimately, however, that budget will be approved or rejected by the Parliament. If the Parliament believes that the Executive has not taken on board the representations of this committee—or any other committee—then it will vote down the budget. That is the principle that operates in many democratic Parliaments across the world and it is the one that we should adopt. That is right and proper for the new Scottish Parliament and for the improved democracy that we are trying to create."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2634",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 2634,
      "EditedText": "On that same point, there was discussion as to the status of the written understandings. I take it that Mr McConnell is looking for an agreement with the conveners of these two committees, acting on behalf of Parliament, on the points that are not covered by standing orders or by this bill?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2637",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 2637,
      "EditedText": "The proposal for written understandings is put forward in a positive way. It is an attempt to avoid a situation in which I, as Minister for Finance, or the Executive, or perhaps the Parliamentary Bureau or the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, decide things without discussion and an understanding. We can use the understandings for positive purposes. Rather than restrict our discussions, they can help us to have better discussions and better decision making.Having said that, I do not have any specific thoughts or opinions on whether any of the written understandings, or any elements that are not covered by legislation, might end up in the standing orders. If we reach written understandings and they work in practice, we might set a good lead to other parts of our decision-making process. If we try to reach written understandings and fail to do so, or if we have a written understanding and it breaks down, standing orders could be used. Presumably, at that stage, Parliament would say that the ministers and the committees were not delivering a constructive relationship in a way in which it could follow our deliberations, therefore it would bring in standing orders to ensure that the relationship functioned properly.I envisage standing orders being used only as a last resort, but I have no strong feelings one way or the other about whether their use would be advisable at this stage. I hope that we can find a way forward. If someone makes a proposal during the discussions that something should be in a standing order rather than in a written understanding, I presume that we would examine the matter collectively.I will correct one thing that was said: there are no concordats currently structured between the Scottish Executive and the British Government. There are discussions within the British Government for the production of draft concordats. When they are drafted in final form, they will be presented to the Scottish Executive. We will consider them, discuss them with the UK Government and then present them to the Parliament by whatever method is agreed by the bureau. I have tried to clarify that point on a number of occasions recently, as have some of my colleagues. As yet, there are no written concordats and no discussions between the Scottish Executive and the British Cabinet, but I hope that they will take place during the summer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2638",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 2638,
      "EditedText": "Will the concordats be presented as a block or individually?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2644",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 2644,
      "EditedText": "I take that point. Both points can be turned the other way. The FIAG report stated, with the best of intentions, that primary legislation should be used at all stages, which reflects the group's view of the importance of making budget decisions in Parliament. While there may not be concrete, firm, absolute, 100 per cent secure reasons for changing that recommendation, no concrete, logical case has been set out for why that recommendation benefits the Parliament, the Executive or the people of Scotland.We must have open minds, and be conscious of the fact that the committees, through the Parliament, could adjust the regulations in the other direction. I take Mike Watson's point that we could start off with budget adjustment, revision or amendment bills and then, if we found that the system was too cumbersome, bureaucratic or problematic, change to some form of secondary legislation. I return to the point that it could work the other way: we could start off with a streamlined system that gave the Parliament full scrutiny, full decision-making powers and absolute accountability for the Executive. However, if the committee and the Parliament felt that that did not provide enough scrutiny and accountability, and that bills—for some reason that we have not yet thought of—would provide more, the Parliament could change that legislation and the committee could propose that change.Those of us who have been at Westminster or who have watched Westminster on the screens and in the galleries know that it is hard to adapt rules and to create new procedures there. There is a new atmosphere here, however, and I want whatever is agreed at the end of this process to be as clear, transparent and accountable as possible, and within the responsibility of the Parliament. The proposal for us to consider the recommendation over the summer is intended to ensure maximum transparency and accountability."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2647",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 2647,
      "EditedText": "Will not Mr McConnell answer it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C2652",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 2652,
      "EditedText": "Statutory instrument debates at Westminster are appallingly badly attended."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2653",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 2653,
      "EditedText": "Mike Watson and I have sat through quite a few of them in our time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C2654",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 2654,
      "EditedText": "The point that Mike Watson made at the outset summarises several other views. With regard to time scale, no compelling argument has been made on why secondary legislation is imperative. We want the minister to reflect carefully on that point again. The system of primary legislation would give us a transparency and openness that accords with the language that the minister is using; it is only fair to recognise that. It would be appropriate to the approach that we want to take to financial issues within the Parliament to provide that primary legislation forum. That would set an appropriate standard for the scrutiny of other financial issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2655",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 2655,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to reflect on that. As I said today, and in my statement last week, I will open up the discussion to see how members feel about it over the next eight weeks. It is important that we take on board the points that have been made today, and that we re-examine timetabling and procedure so that we can return with a considered proposal. I am quite happy to do that, and would be willing to continue the discussion informally with individual committee members over the summer as part of the consultation process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2657",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 2657,
      "EditedText": "It is possible that FIAG's recommendation would provide more such opportunities. It is also possible that Parliament might find it easier and more acceptable to scrutinise decisions on financial legislation through secondary legislation. I do not have a strong view one way or the other, but I believe that discussion needs to take place. We should not wander into the use of primary legislation at all stages of the budget, and the amendment of the budget during the year, without thinking through whether that is the road that we want to go down. The FIAG report expresses that point of view, but does not back it up with lots of detailed evidence and information. The other option that I have suggested today is not backed up with lots of comparative information either. The course that we follow is a matter of judgment for the Executive and for Parliament.  A number of factors must be taken into account: the level of scrutiny and debate; where that scrutiny and debate will take place; our relationship with the law officers and the secretary of state, which I mentioned earlier; and parliamentary time. This is an important matter for the Finance Committee and the Audit Committee, but the issue of parliamentary time might be important for all the committees and for the Parliament as a whole, when it concerns bills and secondary legislation. I want to bring this debate into the public domain over the summer. I have no fixed view about what should emerge at the end of the consultation period. I have heard what has been said in the committee today and I hope that its members—and other members of the Scottish Parliament who might hear of today's discussion—will express their views over the summer, so that we can return with a recommendation on the bill in September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2660",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 2660,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2662",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 2662,
      "EditedText": "I am perfectly comfortable with the views that have been expressed in the committee. Perceptions can sometimes be created by what we all say and do. It is in the interests of the Parliament that we should have a discussion on the matter over the summer, so that we can make the best recommendation in the autumn. I hope that that discussion will show that the committees of the Parliament and its ministers can have a sensible debate about an issue or procedures and can come to a decision that benefits Scotland. That would be a useful perception for us all to create."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2663",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 2663,
      "EditedText": "The minister clearly has received the impression, from both committees, that the preference for primary legislation is an on-going matter. We should now address the issue of conferring ministerial powers of direction on the form of accounts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2665",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 2665,
      "EditedText": "I am happy to respond positively to that point. It was always my intention to attend the committee to discuss the matter before any decision on direction was made. I agree entirely that there should be discussion on how that subject can be scrutinised by Parliament without too rigid a system constraining us all in the making of those decisions and taking up valuable parliamentary time. It might be appropriate for Mr Collings to say one or two words about that, as it is quite a technical matter and it would be helpful if the committee were aware of some of the issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2666",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Collings: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 2666,
      "EditedText": "Annexe E of the FIAG report sets out some early thoughts about how the accounts might look. At the moment, that is what we intend to follow. Mr Davidson referred to making the Parliament's accounts look more like commercial accounts. We are in the process of doing so. We are producing such accounts for the financial year 1998-99, which will be reviewed by the National Audit Office but will not be subject to a full audit because some of the accounting guidance from the Treasury, on accounting standards in that area, has not been finalised. We will produce accounts on that basis for 1999-2000, which will be audited. It may be asked at what stage the Parliament and the Executive will be sufficiently confident about the information in those accounts to use them to control spending. As the process evolves, we will produce proposals for changing the format as we move towards a more commercial style of accounts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2668",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Collings: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 2668,
      "EditedText": "That is one of the reasons for doing a parallel run of the two systems. Our ability to go back is limited because we do not hold the data in that form."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2670",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 2670,
      "EditedText": "We might have been overtaken by events, because I believe that the First Minister made an announcement either yesterday or the day before on the new structure of the Scottish Office. It is now to be termed the Scottish Executive in line with the new procedures and our new standing as from tomorrow. The vast majority of the departments have been reorganised to fit in with ministerial responsibilities, although the committee might wish to note that the one set of ministerial responsibilities that still crosses over four or five departments is my own. There is now a department of justice—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2671",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 2671,
      "EditedText": "Where was this announced?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2672",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 2672,
      "EditedText": "It was announced by the Scottish Office information department, either yesterday or the day before, in advance of Thursday. It is a managerial shift that was resolved by the management group, but it was endorsed by the Cabinet last week and announced yesterday or the day before. That is helpful from the point of view of parliamentary scrutiny because the individual departments in the main translate to ministerial responsibilities. I will be happy to ensure that Mr Wilson gets a copy of whatever has been issued so that he can pursue any further questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C2686",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 2686,
      "EditedText": "What does the minister expect to be able to bring forward in September when we come back from the recess? Will that be the end of the consultation period? Will there be a clear design of the audit arrangements, or will that issue still require further consultation and discussion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2687",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 2687,
      "EditedText": "To some extent, that depends on the outcome of the consultation. If by the end of the summer we have a firm view on what might be the only way ahead—never mind the way ahead—I would look to include that in the draft bill, which would come to the committee as part of the normal process of parliamentary scrutiny. If we face difficult choices or if other issues require further discussion before the presentation of a bill to Parliament, I will talk to the convener about how the committee would be involved. After we have presented the bill to Parliament for scrutiny, I hope that discussion in committee will be constructive and positive. If points are made in response to the bill, I will view them seriously. If they are appropriate, they will be taken on board in any amendments that are lodged."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2688",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 2688,
      "EditedText": "I will be as brief as possible. This is a complex issue and we all recognise that, particularly those of us on the Audit Committee. The establishment of Audit Scotland is a significant task and I am slightly concerned about FIAG's recommendation that we develop it at the earliest opportunity. Is there a facility for interim briefings to the members of the two committees on what the Government's thinking is? I share Mr Swinney's concern that this is an important issue; it is not one that can be fudged or left to Cabinet deliberation that we are informed about after September. There is a need for more specific information as, if we are all honest, we are all slightly laymen when it comes to such technical complexity. If there were a facility for an interim briefing on the minister's thinking, that might help us in deliberating further before September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2601",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting)<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 39,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andrew Welsh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 2601,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the Minister for Finance, Mr Jack McConnell, to this joint meeting. We are making history this morning as this is the first joint meeting of two committees, in this case the Audit Committee and the Finance Committee. My colleague Mr Mike Watson, the Convener of the Finance Committee, is with me. This is also the first time that we have had a minister before us, so Mr McConnell is doubly welcome for all those reasons. Let us get down to business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2602",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 40,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 2602,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the formal agenda is a declaration of interests by Mr Adam Ingram."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C2603",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 2603,
      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2605",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Presentation of Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 41,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 41,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 2605,
      "EditedText": "The next item is the presentation by the Minister for Finance, Mr Jack McConnell, of the memorandum \"A Financial Framework for the Scottish Parliament\". I notice that the minister has placed before us issues to discuss when he has finished his presentation. Instead of the order in which he has placed those issues, I want to separate them into two sections. The first will be a series of information questions—I will give him notice of those questions before we get there—and in the second we will focus on more substantive issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C2611",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 2611,
      "EditedText": "Some of the FIAG's recommendations relate particularly to audit. I accept what the minister said about there being something of a question mark over the direction of some of the audit arrangements. It seems that FIAG recommends a broad sweep of audit throughout the Government community in Scotland. I am particularly interested in local enterprise companies. I suspect, from some of the responses to the recommendations, in particular recommendations 46 and 51, that the Government is proposing that there should be not quite the same intrusion into local enterprise company auditing as I would like to encourage. I would be interested to hear if that represents the Government's position. There is a point in the response to recommendation 51 that suggests that only the further education sector would be involved in the extension of audit. Has the minister come to any definitive conclusions on that point or is it something that the Audit Committee can still make representations about and pursue with the minister in due course?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2612",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 2612,
      "EditedText": "Our response was quite consistent, particularly on the thrust of the FIAG proposals on the audit of other bodies. Both in last week's statement and in the memorandum, we recommend adjusting the audit arrangements quickly for specific bodies. The audit of companies presents a particular legal problem: it is the responsibility of the Auditor General. That is why we are not making a specific proposal to change the audit arrangements of local enterprise companies at this stage. I can give Mr Swinney an absolute assurance that it would be my view, as Minister for Finance, that such arrangements should be kept under constant review, and that it is a specific matter which I would want to raise in the summer in consultation with the ministers responsible and with officials. It cannot perhaps be dealt with under the legislation that is before us, but we should constantly review auditing arrangements for bodies that spend a considerable amount of public money, and how their spending is reported to the Parliament and beyond."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C2613",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 2613,
      "EditedText": "Is the minister considering at the back of his mind whether the Finance Committee, in approving spending patterns, might consider ways in which money that is spent can be traced and accounted for in a form which would be recognised in commercial practice—before the audit stage, which is more an investigation of outcomes? In other words, is he expecting the Finance Committee to be involved at an early stage in clarifying and controlling, through its recommendations? Is that where the minister is coming from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2615",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 2615,
      "EditedText": "If there are no more points on that subject, let us turn to point 31.3.2 of the memorandum:\"extending consultation outwith the Parliament to the people of Scotland\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2616",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 2616,
      "EditedText": "I wish to clarify how meaningful consultation will be. Everyone accepts the principle, but what plans are there to structure consultation? Will it be a matter of approaching the general public with three fire engines or four? Such questions were brought up earlier, in the private part of the meeting. I am very keen, as are the committees, that consultation is seen to be more than a show. It must be meaningful if it is to happen at all, but the public will require detailed access to information if we are to achieve that. I would like some early feedback from the minister on how he plans to structure consultation, what the timing will be, and how meaningful he sees it as being—it has obviously been done in the past."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2617",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 2617,
      "EditedText": "I would welcome a discussion with the committees on the matter after the summer. Some of the other committees involved in public consultation and in similar relationships could also be involved. What I have presented today is a principle. It is vital that we inform the public of the detail of our budget deliberations and that we consult the wider public of Scotland, beyond the representative organisations that would normally be involved and which, under the procedures of the new Parliament, will be involved in formal consultation in committees and elsewhere. How we do that is open to discussion. There is and will be very good practice on consulting the public in the local authority sector and among other private and public bodies. I would like to take examples of best practice from them when considering how to proceed. The task is not easy. Public consultation on a budget runs off the tongue easily as a point of principle, but it is much harder to implement. I do not underestimate the scale of that task. However, I do not think that it is impossible for us to devise systems—annually or on a rotation over two or three years—for consultation with the public about areas in which, for example, they see duplication of expenditure that could be rooted out of Government spending plans to use money more effectively, or about areas in which they could see money being better spent. It would not be impossible, from time to time, to find imaginative ways, particularly in this information technology age that we live in, in which particular options might be put to the public in an effort to extract views. I am particularly keen that we do not concentrate our attention just on the voters of today and on those who pay taxes today. As part of building our new democratic structure in Scotland, we can involve schools. I had a very fruitful discussion at a high school two weeks ago about some of the decisions that we have made in the Parliament—I am not referring to some that have been on the front pages of the tabloids. Interestingly, a class of 15-year-olds had picked up from the press, or from discussions in class, on some meaty debates, even from parliamentary question time. It would not be impossible for us to devise a schools pack that encourages senior modern studies classes to discuss the Parliament's financial arrangement, the choices that are open to MSPs and how they relate to the rest of the United Kingdom. That would be very productive in terms of building an interest in politics and in Government in Scotland. Given the turnout, particularly in the European elections, we all have a responsibility to increase interest in and knowledge about Government decision making in Scotland and elsewhere among the generations of tomorrow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2618",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 2618,
      "EditedText": "I agree with all that. Does the minister see the Executive leading that process, or would it be more usefully conducted by the Finance Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C2620",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 2620,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to prolong this point, but I share the concern that has already been expressed that this might turn out to be a fairly gigantic and expensive PR exercise that might come under the Audit Committee's gaze. An effective consultation process relates to the layout and format of the accounts—they must be easily accessible to everyone. A schools pack is one thing, and as a communications exercise in education that is fine, but if consultation is to be effective, it must be informed. That is my first point.My second point is that I do not see how we can consult outside civic bodies or representative organisations other than through focus groups. We know the problems that those have brought to some political parties, so perhaps that is not the route to follow. Also, it is now summer, and that is not a good time to consult on anything. In his reply to a question I asked in the chamber last week, the minister said that we had already lost two months of the financial year. We will have lost another two by the time that we come back from the recess. We are working to an extremely tight timetable for next year's budget. Consulting even the Parliament will be severely curtailed, compared to what it might be in subsequent years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2622",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 2622,
      "EditedText": "These are very useful questions and answers, but I am anxious to cover all the topics. Please can we have snappier questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2623",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 2623,
      "EditedText": "I share some the concerns that other members have expressed. I am delighted to hear that the minister is optimistic about the future, but I am afraid that I am a little cynical about the consultation process. I am concerned that it should take place prior to any decisions being made. My experience elsewhere is that consultation has occurred once the principal decisions have been taken. Can the minister give us any idea whether he intends to start the consultation process having set the overall sum and trend of the budget, or prior to that? I am also concerned about some of the consultation mechanisms that have been used by local authorities. To my mind, they have engendered only cynicism. Mr Raffan referred to focus groups. Similar things are public meetings at which only three people turn up out of a city of almost a quarter of a million people, or an advert in the paper to which 30 or 40 people reply—and that many replies is a joyous experience. Positive ideas can arise from that, but we need to be careful not to reinforce cynicism. I hope that this process will encourage people to take an interest on an informed basis. People must also believe that their participation may have some influence, rather than everything being set in advance and our telling them what we are going to do as opposed to asking what they would like us to do. Can I have some assurance as to how you intend to proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C2626",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 2626,
      "EditedText": "I want to follow the same point. I am sorry to sound cynical, but I have seen many of these exercises in operation elsewhere, as Mr Adam kindly put it without fingering any political party. We must ensure that consultations are validly run, and the number of people participating is part of that. I am also concerned about the transfer of accountability from an Executive body to the public whom it consulted. The Executive body can turn round and say \"That was what you wanted. You chose to have a fire engine instead of an ambulance.\" We must do away with that. We have had many bad experiences in Scotland, and we are looking for the minister and his team to come up with crystal clear methods that cannot be used cynically against the Parliament. That is what will happen if these systems are not run properly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2628",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 2628,
      "EditedText": "Never has a minister been subject to such close questioning in terms of proximity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2633",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 2633,
      "EditedText": "So the answer to the request for a written agreement to take on board the views of the committee is no."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2635",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 2635,
      "EditedText": "That is my intention. I would like to sit down with Mr Watson and Mr Welsh over the summer months and agree a way of handling this matter. My intention is that where the written understandings cover Audit Committee and Finance Committee responsibilities, we will have individual discussions with each committee to try to secure agreement.I would imagine that once we have agreement, perhaps straying into other people's responsibilities, we would report to Parliament and it would accept our responsibility in the way that we had handled the agreement. The authority of each written understanding and the way in which the understandings are carried through will be a matter for the discussions about those understandings.It may be that some of the written understandings are purely technical; for example, laying out when we will discuss particular matters each year. If we agree that we will discuss something at a certain time of the year, and I do not have a written proposal ready for the committee in, for example, October of each year, the committee will be at liberty to call a meeting and ask where I am and why the proposal is not ready. To some extent, the written understandings will be underpinned by democracy, rather than rules of enforcement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2639",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 2639,
      "EditedText": "That is entirely a matter for the Parliamentary Bureau and nothing to do with me as the Minister for Finance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C2643",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 2643,
      "EditedText": "The minister's last point was perhaps the most interesting. He is looking quite a bit down the road. Of course, there is the possibility of Governments of different political hues in London and Edinburgh. If that were to happen, or if the system that we adopted was not seen to be working as effectively and efficiently as we thought, it might be appropriate to review the matter then, rather than anticipating problems now. Like the minister, we have also found that the spirit of optimism exists. We should be more optimistic, and act on the basis of getting business through, with as much transparency as possible. I take the point about considering matters over the intervening weeks, but that was the view of the committee when we considered these matters before this formal meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2646",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Collings (Principal Finance Officer, Scottish Executive): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 2646,
      "EditedText": "I shall answer that technical point about how secondary legislation proposals could be changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2648",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Peter Collings: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 2648,
      "EditedText": "The proposals can be changed during the passage of a bill if the Executive withdraws the original statutory instrument and puts forward a new statutory instrument that includes the amendment. That does not reflect rigidity in secondary legislation; it is just a different process for amending the original proposal. At Westminster an amendment is not taken; the statutory instrument is withdrawn and replaced with a revised one. I understand that that model will be adapted for this Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C2650",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 2650,
      "EditedText": "The withdrawal of statutory instruments—something that I have seldom seen done at Westminster—is a cumbersome and time-consuming process. The Executive would have to propose another statutory instrument and the whole process would start again. However, if statutory instruments could be amended, that would be more flexible. The minister said that he was interested in strengthening democracy. I can see his point vis-à-vis different Administrations at Holyrood and Westminster, but within this Parliament we are in danger of taking a more cumbersome route. The big W has become a bogey in this Parliament; however, an awful lot of things would be done better here if we took notice of the way in which they are done at Westminster. That Parliament has been in operation for a long time, and knows what it does badly, as do I. Let us follow its example when it does things well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2651",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 2651,
      "EditedText": "From conversations with officials and political colleagues over the past few weeks, I have had the impression that the use of statutory instruments for budget matters works quite well at Westminster. I take Mr Raffan's point, which is an argument for my own point of view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2658",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 2658,
      "EditedText": "I think that the minister has a clear view of the committee's feelings. I am anxious to move on to the next item, but two members still want to speak."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2659",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 2659,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the minister's assurance that he will consider the matter further. It has not been made clear in the discussion that there is a major difference between the two procedures that are being considered, in respect of either transparency or the ability of Parliament to make amendments. It is important that a principle should be established at the beginning, and I welcome the minister's commitment to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C2661",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 2661,
      "EditedText": "I shall be brief, as we have had a fair session. I cannot detect huge differences between the two systems except for one thing: the perceived ownership of the process in its early stages by the Parliament, although I accept that there could be flexibility in the future. That is something in which the public would be interested.  I say that not from a nasty point of view. In the early stages, when we know that we can change things, we should follow the FIAG report, which seems to have the committee's support. We should maintain that course and if, for good reason, there is change, it should be up to the Executive to ask the committees and the Parliament to endorse that change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C2664",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 2664,
      "EditedText": "The minister's memorandum talks about the powers of direction as a mechanism that is needed to ensure that accounts are laid out effectively. Ministerial direction is suggested and another possibility is mentioned. We are concerned that whoever was the personification of that ministerial direction—whether the First Minister or the Minister for Finance—would have considerable powers. This committee suggests that the minister should attend another of the joint committee meetings, with a proposed form of accounts. The issue is primarily the responsibility of the Audit Committee, but we would like the minister to attend a joint committee meeting because that would increase the openness of the procedure. However, we do not want to enter again into discussion of statutory instruments and the rigidity that they would impose on the changing or updating of accountancy procedures. We would also like the minister to consider the ways in which parliamentary scrutiny of forms of accounts could be tightened without requiring it to be enshrined in the legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2673",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 2673,
      "EditedText": "It might be nice if the minister could do that and let the information unit know, so that we can see it in the bulletin."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2675",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 2675,
      "EditedText": "That will depend on the final legislative decisions of the Parliament on the bill. If the powers of direction of accounts lie either with the Scottish ministers collectively or with an individual minister, be that the First Minister or the Minister for Finance, it is clearly that person's executive responsibility to agree the direction of accounts. What I am saying—and I am certain that I say this on behalf of the whole Executive—is that that is not a power that would be exercised without full discussion in the Finance Committee in advance. I would like to discuss with the Finance Committee at an early date the ways in which that discussion would proceed and the ways in which the matter would be subject to parliamentary scrutiny. That is an important principle; today I would not like to rule out or rule in how far that discussion might go or at what point in the year it might take place. We shall need to discuss such matters as the months go by. It may even be that there is a decision on direction and who has responsibility in the legislation, but that there is a written understanding or minuted understanding of how that will be carried through. I have an open mind on that as well. The issue was raised today because we do not have a firm recommendation at this stage either to accept or reject the proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C2677",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 2677,
      "EditedText": "Andy raised the important point about comparison. Let me put it tactfully: the minister's alter ego, the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the British Government, has shown extraordinarily creative powers on the presentation of figures, particularly on increases in expenditure so that it is not clear whether the figures take inflation into account, which period they cover, which years they cover, which year they are being compared with or which Government they are being compared with. I am sure that Mr McConnell will not go down that route because there is a happy atmosphere in the committee, and I am sure that he will do nothing to disturb it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C2679",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 2679,
      "EditedText": "That was the minister's coalition partner talking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C2681",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 2681,
      "EditedText": "To follow on from what the convener said, we recognise that there has been a great deal of dialogue among ministers, the Executive, the Accounts Commission and others. We can take it from the terminology and style of this section of the memorandum that there is no entrenched position. We welcome that, because the various options in that section require a great deal more thought and agreement as to what is appropriate. The committees sympathise with the genuine and technical difficulties that arise from the FIAG recommendations.We are agreed that the three key things that we are looking for from the audit system—whether we are members of the Audit Committee, of the Finance Committee or of the Parliament—are direction on value for money, probity in the use of public finance and performance assessment. It is appropriate to put on record the achievements of the Accounts Commission in making progress in information on comparative performance assessment in recent years. That is to be welcomed. However, how those three aspects flow into the parliamentary system is far from clear in the material that has been produced so far.I will raise two issues. First, thinking does not seem to have moved far from our established structures for auditing in Scotland under the Westminster system. We are looking at a new system for financial management within a devolved Scotland, and some of the infrastructure, especially some of the exclusivity of the role of the Accounts Commission, has not flowed through into the thinking about the arrangements that should be put in place. Secondly, in some of the proposals, particularly the arrangement between the Auditor General—who will be appointed—and the proposed body Audit Scotland, some operational factors might constrain the independence of the Auditor General. We all recognise the Auditor General to be a pivotal figure in the process of informing Parliament and its committees about the work that is to be carried out. The operational tie between the Auditor General and Audit Scotland might be too restrictive and constrain the independence of the Auditor General. We should like further guidance from the minister on those two points, as well as an assurance that the matter will be the subject of much more detailed discussion with the two committees. I think that it was Keith Raffan who said that we are working to a fairly constrained time scale. We all accept why that is so, but this is a very important issue, on which we want further dialogue and consultation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2685",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 2685,
      "EditedText": "Audit arrangements for the public sector in Scotland and the managerial arrangements and options that are outlined can be discussed during the summer. I hope that we will have serious discussions with the Audit Committee and others in the autumn about the way in which that process will be taken forward by those who are responsible under the new arrangements. Some of Mr Swinney's points are well made, and I look forward to discussing them in more detail later in the year. In the meantime, I give both committees an assurance that as discussions progress during the next two months, I will keep the convener fully informed and ensure that he has an input into my thinking before a report is made to Cabinet on the consultation at the end of the summer."
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:30."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C2600",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting)<br />Wednesday 30 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 39,
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      "ContributionID": 2600,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 10:02"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2604",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 40,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 2604,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone else wish to make a formal declaration? It seems not."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2607",
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      "ID": 13
    },
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 2607,
      "EditedText": "I congratulate the minister on his birthday. His appearance before the committees might not be the greatest of birthday treats, but we hope it is not too unpleasant an experience. As the minister pointed out, we have a large agenda and we have a time and space problem, but I would hope to deal with the substantive issues that he mentioned. The minister talked about the timing of the bill, the process, the question of primary and secondary legislation, audit arrangements, the layout of accounts and consultations and written understandings. I wish to make a start on several of the issues that have been raised: first, on whether we are content with the recommendation broadly to accept the FIAG report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2614",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 2614,
      "EditedText": "The parliamentary scrutiny process will, of necessity and in principle—quite rightly—allow for more detailed scrutiny and clarity in advance of specific budget lines, proposals and decisions. I imagine that there will also be considerable discussion, in the Finance Committee and, I suspect, in some other committees, as the budget is compiled during the nine or 10 month three-stage process, about the details that lie below budget lines, about what ministers propose spending money on and about committee members' proposals that ministers want to consider. In my introduction, I raised the issue of the format of accounts. My understanding is that it should be regularised, although the First Minister, the Minister for Finance and other ministers would have a power of direction. The Executive would want to consult the appropriate committee about the format and layout of accounts year on year, so that members of the committees are happy that their discussions about the content of the budget and, therefore, about the content of the accounts at the end of the year, translate into the way the accounts are laid out in Parliament. To be absolutely transparent and accountable in our decisions, that has to happen: I would welcome dialogue about the format and layout of accounts, in particular with the committee conveners, between now and the bill being introduced to Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2619",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 2619,
      "EditedText": "There are two processes. The FIAG proposals allow for consultation—quite correctly—by the Finance Committee, and possibly by other committees, on budget proposals. The first stage of the annual budget round is largely about consultation with bodies outwith the Parliament and, perhaps, with individuals who come to committees and comment on the Executive's overall strategic plans, which will form the budget that is to appear in the autumn. I think that it is incumbent on the Executive, when its budget is published in the autumn, to take some responsibility for publicising that fact and to take some initiative each year to get feedback from the public. I see that as being a process in which we are all involved. The statutory obligations and relationships and rights of the committees and the members of the Parliament allow for that consultation to take place. I injected this particular idea into last week's statement, and into today's memorandum, because I believe that the Executive also has a responsibility to consult on its proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2621",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 2621,
      "EditedText": "I largely agree with what Mr Raffan has said, although I do not share his pessimism about consultation not being possible. There are some very good examples of both public and private bodies that consult. There are also—I am certain of this, although I do not have details with me today—examples from other countries of governments and levels of government that consult the public on their budgets. In American cities the directly elected mayors have a statutory responsibility to consult the public about their budgets. They do it in many different and innovative ways. When I was in America two years ago, I experienced occasions when widespread public consultation produced ideas that no public official or politician had thought of or had had the will to implement and good budget revisions were produced. I am an optimist about these things. If we set the principle and are clear about it, we can find a way of doing it. I hope that we can learn from other examples. There is a difficulty this year because of the compressed budget timetable. This proposal is not one that I have for this year; it would be part of the future package. I noted Mr Raffan's point last week, and I hope to come back to the Finance Committee in September with a plan for how we intend to handle the budget decision making and consultation process inside the Parliament between September and March. We will obviously need to get that under way while this bill is going through the parliamentary stages."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2629",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 2629,
      "EditedText": "It is very comfortable."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2631",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 2631,
      "EditedText": "First, when does the minister anticipate producing these understandings? A specific date would be useful. Secondly, what is the status of the written understandings, and how enforceable are they? More generally, what is the role of this committee in feeding into the budget process? The minister is not legally bound to act on anything that we suggest, even if it is a consensus view from the committee. Can we have a written understanding that he will act on our suggestions?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C2636",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 2636,
      "EditedText": "The memorandum refers to written understandings about areas not covered in the bill or the interim standing orders. Where does Mr McConnell see the written understanding going? As a Parliament, we will have agreed, firmer standing orders. Does he envisage some entrenchment of the written understandings to give them more status and clarity within the parliamentary process?We are still awaiting information on the concordats that have been structured between the Scottish Executive, the Scottish Parliament and Westminster. I am concerned about the numbers of instruments, agreements and points of contact that exist outwith the formal aspects of the relationships that have been agreed by the Parliament. Obviously, a lot of what the minister has said is predicated on the goodwill that all of us are prepared to put into the process, but where that goodwill breaks down, some of us would like to see a greater and firmer structure given to the relationships that exist, and to what the committees can expect to receive from the Executive."
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  {
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 2640,
      "EditedText": "We now move on to areas of substantial importance. The first one concerns the use of primary or secondary legislation for approving budgets and/or budget amendments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C2641",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 2641,
      "EditedText": "Mr McConnell suggested in the memorandum that he wants the views of the joint committee on the question of primary versus secondary legislation. He outlined the reasons for that in the memorandum: there could be a four-week delay before the bills could receive royal assent, for the reasons stated.While we accept that it could happen, we have received advice that, in fact, such a four-week delay would appear to be unlikely, particularly with regard to budget bills, because it is unlikely that vires issues would arise, and if the Secretary of State for Scotland and the three law officers agreed that they would not challenge the bill, it could be endorsed within days. I would like Mr McConnell's comments on that, because the feeling among the joint committee members is that primary legislation would probably be the better course. One of the reasons for that is that we understand that the affirmative statutory instrument procedure takes 40 days, but a budget amendment bill has to take 30 days or fewer, so there may not be the time saving that has been suggested.Within the committees there was also the feeling that primary legislation was more open and transparent, and gave more opportunities for the Parliament to participate in the process. For those reasons, our preference veered towards primary, as opposed to secondary, legislation. We would like to hear Mr McConnell's view on that suggestion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2642",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 2642,
      "EditedText": "This is an appropriate point in the meeting to introduce Dr Peter Collings, who is the principal finance officer. I should have done that at the beginning and I apologise for not doing so.There are two points to be made. First, while it is possible for the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Law Officers to decide quickly not to use their power of referral to the Privy Council, it would be extremely unlikely that as a general rule they would say in advance that they would not use that power in relation to budget amendment bills. The option would always be there for them to take that course of action, therefore a four-week delay is always a possibility.We must think about the long term rather than the short term. Given the current financial relationship between the Scottish Parliament and the British Government, the good relationship between the secretary of state and the British Cabinet, the atmosphere of budget deliberations created by the comprehensive spending review, the increases in spending over the next two to three years, and that it is so soon after the passing of the Scotland Act 1998, I would be surprised if those powers were used. However, with a devolution settlement that stands the test of time, in 10 or 15 years we could easily find ourselves in the situation in which there is an administration in the Scottish Executive that is different politically from the British Government. In those circumstances it would be possible for the powers to be used for delaying purposes. That long-term possibility is why we have put forward our proposals.I do not think that there will be any difficulty with minor budget amendment bills over the next two or three years—we have a good atmosphere here already: we can work well in this Parliament, and we have a good relationship with colleagues in London—but we must plan for the longer term and create a structure that suits the decision making of the Scottish Parliament, rather than tying our hands to other means. That addresses the issue of the four-week delay. I make that point for people to think about today, and in the eight or nine weeks before we return after the recess.On the issue of time scales, Mr Watson is right about the potential timetable for statutory instruments and for bills, but I was under the impression that we could examine the ways in which that secondary legislation is dealt with, particularly in relation to budget adjustments. If we have discussions about that over the summer and into the autumn, I hope that we can have imaginative discussions that do not restrict us to the procedures that are used for other matters. A bill can be passed in 30 days, but it can take a lot longer if there is a protracted period of time wasting by colleagues in Parliament. I presume that in all parliamentary matters, rules are there to be used in different ways at different times by different people. In the longer term again, we must be careful to ensure that the procedures that we put in place stand the test of time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2645",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 2645,
      "EditedText": "From what the minister says, I understand that he applauds the prospect of flexibility. That seems to be the gist of his attitude. It is a purely technical point that primary legislation can be amended, whereas subordinate legislation can only be accepted or rejected. Does not the latter risk the rigidity of which he seems to be fearful?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2649",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 2649,
      "EditedText": "Both processes are based on similar principles. The budget bills, as proposed by the FIAG report, and budget amendment bills, or whatever we would call them, cannot be amended by Parliament. Amendments to them can be proposed only by the Executive. Exactly the same principle lies behind both procedures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2656",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 2656,
      "EditedText": "I ask the minister to consider FIAG's recommendation in paragraph 3.50 on page 41 of its report. Does he feel that FIAG was wrong to say that this\"would have the advantage of giving more opportunities for parliamentary scrutiny than would be the case if secondary legislation was used\"?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2667",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 2667,
      "EditedText": "I realise that this is early in the programme of changing over the systems. Can I make an early appeal for it to be possible for us to compare previous forms of accounts so that we can make like-for-like comparisons? We must be able to do that in our deliberations—I am talking about converting previous forms of accounts, not about redoing standard industrial classifications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2669",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 2669,
      "EditedText": "My second point is on departmentalisation. The Scottish Executive has a different make-up from the Scottish Office. My concern is about direct accountability for each of the ministers and what can be done about that, given that there is no obvious line of accountability as the budgets do not relate directly to a specific minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C2674",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 2674,
      "EditedText": "I want to ensure that I have a clear understanding of what the minister said earlier about direction on the form of accounts. The memorandum states at the top of page 6: \"the Finance and Audit Committees would be consulted on the terms of any such direction.\"Is the minister saying that he is prepared to go beyond that and agree the form of accounts with the two committees, rather than just consult them before he makes the direction?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2676",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 2676,
      "EditedText": "We are up against a time constraint. We might continue, but the official report probably will not, which would not be terribly good. I ask for quick questions so that we can move to the last area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2678",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 2678,
      "EditedText": "What a suggestion; as if I would ever do anything of the sort."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2680",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 2680,
      "EditedText": "If there are no further questions, we will move swiftly on to the last section, about Audit Scotland. I say to the minister that we recognise that the Executive is giving careful thought to those issues, some of which have emerged since the end of the FIAG process. On this occasion, we do not want to pre-empt any further thought by the Executive or its consultees. I am sure that the committee looks forward to hearing the outcome of that consultation. I impress it upon the minister that, whatever the outcome, both committees expect to see good value for money in whatever structures are set up; regard should be given to the constitutional position of the Accounts Commission as the reporting body in respect to local authority audit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2682",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 2682,
      "EditedText": "Those are good, deep questions, and I hate to have to remind the minister that we are pressed for time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2683",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 2683,
      "EditedText": "I want to have significant discussions during the summer. The independence of the Auditor General is enshrined in the Scotland Act 1998, and there are ways in which any attempt—witting or unwitting—to threaten that can be challenged and stopped."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C2684",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 2684,
      "EditedText": "All that I said referred to unwittingly constraining the Auditor General's independence."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2052E154P182C2689",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McConnell, Jack",
      "ID": 2052,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Motherwell and Wishaw"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McConnell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 2689,
      "EditedText": "I have already agreed with the officials that they will organise briefings for both committees in the immediate future. I hope that those briefings will include information on that matter.I hope that at some stage—we might have to discuss when it would be appropriate—the Accounts Commission and the National Audit Office will be involved in briefing committee members. The committees require the fullest briefing on that subject to ensure that decisions are properly informed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2690",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee and Finance Committee (Joint Meeting), 30 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 13
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-30T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Response to Memorandum",
      "HeadingID": 42,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ID": 42,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 2690,
      "EditedText": "I am afraid that time has now beaten us. We have considered a wide range of important subjects and received detailed replies from the minister. I thank him and Peter Collings for their comments; the minister agreed that these are on-going issues, which will be subject to further consultation and deliberation. I thank members of both committees for their attendance and participation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9518903+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19249,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19249,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 638234,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 19250,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 19250,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 638235,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is the declaration of interests. I remind members:\"Where a member has a registrable interest in respect of which he has lodged a statement . . . which would prejudice or give the appearance of prejudicing his ability to participate in a disinterested manner in proceedings of the Parliament relating to any particular matter, he shall, before otherwise participating in those proceedings, make an oral statement in those proceedings declaring the nature of that registrable interest.\"The intention is not to prevent members from taking part, but such interests should be declared. That gobbledegook means that if you have an interest that you feel you should declare, you should do so. I advise you that if you are unsure, it is probably better to declare now, rather than have to comment later. I also remind you that, once the committee is up and running and has business to discuss, if you have an interest you must declare it again. Declaring it today does not excuse you from declaring it at other times.I invite members to make a declaration of their registered interests if they feel that they are relevant to the remit of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 19250,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 19250,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 638237,
      "EditedText": "This may be rather tenuous, but given that the remit of this committee includes the byelaws passed by local authorities, I would like to declare that my wife is a local authority councillor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 19250,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 19250,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 638242,
      "EditedText": "Given what has been declared, perhaps I should declare, although it is probably totally irrelevant, that I am married to a member of the Westminster Parliament. I do not know whether that means that some of the legislation that comes from Westminster might be a bit dodgy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 638246,
      "EditedText": "I would certainly find it helpful if we could set out some examples of what we might be involved in doing—the sort of agenda that we would regularly have. I confess that I am not totally clear on the role of subordinate legislation in the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 638255,
      "EditedText": "I apologise: I should have touched on that. My understanding is that the anticipated influx of legislation will be such that a weekly meeting will be appropriate. It may be that some meetings will be light and others will be fairly full, but if we do not stick to a weekly cycle, we might find ourselves with a pile of documents and a full weight of legislation to which we would be unable to give worthy consideration. Unless there are opposing views from members of the committee, we should meet weekly. Meetings will be in our timetables. We will have a cycle of meetings, and will know what is coming and have an opportunity to consider it.You will have read in the briefing that there are time constraints: 20 days, 40 days, and so on. If we get out of kilter, we will find ourselves up against the wire and having to discuss things, even though we have a full agenda. My own view, and the advice of the clerks, is that we should meet weekly. If that means that on some occasions—perhaps initially—our work load is not particularly heavy, so be it: we can adjourn earlier and get on with other parliamentary business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 638257,
      "EditedText": "Subordinate legislation will not come here, but will go directly to the European Committee, which, apparently, is meeting in July. Any MSP is free to attend that committee's meetings.As convener, I briefly canvassed the anticipated volume of work. It will probably be best dealt with at an informal briefing with the parliamentary legal office and the solicitor's office. They can give us an idea of what legislation is coming, how it is going to be processed and the likely cycle of troughs and mountains that may come over the next few months.I do not think that it is appropriate to say too much about how much work we can anticipate—they had only estimated on what had gone before—but if we meet during the recess, we can, in addition to the other points that we have raised, again ask them how much work we can anticipate and whether they can give an indication of the likely agenda over the forthcoming period. While we cannot control their legislative process, we can ask them to ensure that, after the first informal meeting, matters are put through here on a commonsense basis so that we do not suddenly get landed with a 20-day timetable. That is a matter for them.Will the committee be content if I arrange for a briefing programme, taking into account the points made? I will ask the civil servants detailed to this committee to liaise individually with members, because we all have different holiday constraints. The point that it will be appropriate to meet collectively rather than individually or in sections was well made by Trish.Are there any other points that members wish to raise?I appreciate that other committees have overrun their allotted time and it is only 6 minutes past 11, but that is down to the nature of this committee.Like others, I am conscious that it is good to be technical and detailed. There will be a lot of hard work and, although it may seem as dry as dust, I can only say—having worked in litigation for 20 years—that it is extremely important. If we get it wrong and do not flag up a problem, then a committee dealing with an important point on the rights of detained immigrants, or whatever, may not get it right. If that committee does not get it right, then somewhere down the line individuals will have to deal with it.Although we will not have the joy of considering the meaty political issues, we can attend committee meetings on those later. There is nothing to stop members of this committee—who are perhaps pre-warned and pre-armed—going along to other committees that we sit on, or have an interest in, to raise points about which we have been forewarned. To some extent we will have an advantage over our colleagues.As my briefing sheet correctly points out, there will be a substantial amount of work to do in scrutinising the Executive's output of subordinate legislation and in satisfying ourselves as to the quality and accuracy of the subordinate legislation laid before the Parliament. I am confident that we will press on with that.The only other point that I canvassed with the secretariat is that I am aware that other committees have the power to co-opt. That may not be something that we would necessarily consider in this committee but, as I indicated, I was stopped in the street by sheriffs who have known me for many years who pointed out some interests that they have.It may be that, although we have timetable constraints, there will be particular aspects of legislation about which either we may want people to come and speak to us about the practicalities, or we may want to discover their views by writing to them and flagging up the issues of interest to them. For example, on civil and criminal justice there may be issues not about the political meat of it, but about how it is organised in practice.I would like this committee to bring on board at an early stage the organisations and individuals who may end up processing the legislation. The political aspects of it need to go to an individual committee, but if we forewarn those people and organisations, they can either react to us if they think that a problem is going to arise, or consider at an early stage matters that will go to other committees.I draw the meeting to a close faster than any other committee that has met so far, and look forward to meeting all the members again during the summer recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 638256,
      "EditedText": "On the role of the committee, I suppose that we are going to suck it and see, but my view is that we will be a clearing house for statutory instruments, which will come to us and then go on to other substantive committees. Perhaps the clerks could give us some idea of what volume of subordinate legislation will come to us from Europe between now and resumption in September, how that legislation will be dealt with and what briefing we will receive on the substantive issues of the legislation. I am aware that some regulations, certainly on farming, have caused grave hardship because of the inflexibility with which the rules are enforced—often against farmers. We would be derelict in our duties if we did not try to anticipate such mantraps. Is there a case for meeting before Parliament resumes?Secondly, on consultation, when we perform the role of clearing house, it may occur to us that there are a number of bodies that should be consulted, especially on draft statutory instruments, rather than those that are already in force. For example, retailing and, perhaps, small business would have an interest in any statutory instrument about the storage capacity of fridges. What role will we and, more particularly, the clerks play in approaching the intellectual question of to whom we should send information to ensure that those whose interests will be affected by any statutory instrument or proposed statutory instrument will have the chance to be consulted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:26.0699041+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19249,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 19249,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 638233,
      "EditedText": "Good morning and welcome. We have a quorum, so I will start the meeting. I have the dubious task of sitting in this chair because I am described as the oldest member of the committee, but I see that you are a rather young bunch, so I do not feel so bad. Have members received a big briefing pack and an agenda for today's meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 19250,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 19250,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 638236,
      "EditedText": "I am an employee of BT Scotland and a member of the Law Society of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 19250,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 19250,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 638241,
      "EditedText": "Along with my colleagues Mr Mundell and Mr Ewing, I am a member of the Law Society of Scotland. I am a partner in the law firm Erskine MacAskill and Co, which owns premises at 4 Gayfield Square, Edinburgh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 19251,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ID": 19251,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 638243,
      "EditedText": "On a motion from the Parliamentary Bureau, the Parliament has decided that the convener of this committee shall be a member of the Scottish National party. The nominee is Kenny MacAskill. Is the committee pleased to elect Mr MacAskill as its convener?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1931E120P189C638247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Muldoon, Bristow",
      "ID": 1931,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Livingston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bristow Muldoon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 638247,
      "EditedText": "I agree that it would be useful to have the legal background to the remit. In particular, I want to explore the relationship that this committee will have with the UK Parliament, especially in devolved areas. In addition to that, what relationship will we need to have with legislation passed through Europe? We cannot, like many other committees, sit here and say that this is the committee that will grab the attention of the people of Scotland, but we have an important role. We must ensure that where ministers pass legislation by statutory instrument they do not act beyond their powers. We are the gatekeepers. It will be useful for us to understand the remit fully, and the powers that we have to refer issues back to the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 638249,
      "EditedText": "That is right. This committee is the first port of call. I have been a practising solicitor for 20 years, and I have never sought to flag up the importance of legislation, but there are important things to ensure that we get it right in terms of vires and the practical operation of the committee.From discussions with the clerks I understand that officials from the parliamentary legal office and the solicitor's office would be prepared to attend meetings of this committee. Perhaps we could consider that. It might be useful for one or both of those bodies to go over a dummy run of legislation that previously has been done by a UK committee to let us know what we should be looking out for. We will also need to be guided on our relationship with the UK and with Europe.On the content and timing of briefings, the committee clerks will arrange a timetable. It is not an interest to be declared, but I will be on holiday in the second and third weeks of July.Does anyone have views on other sources of informal briefings? There are the pressure groups, but they may not be appropriate for this organisation. The only people who have lobbied me have been individual sheriffs, who have suggested matters that have to be watched out for. I do not know what sources of input there are other than the parliamentary legal office and the solicitor's office. We could ask those two bodies for examples and for briefing on our relationship with the UK and with Europe. If people would like us to approach any other organisations for briefing at this stage, we can do so. Otherwise, we can just suck it and see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 638252,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned, convener, that you are going on holiday; it is probably better that we are all together to receive briefings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 638253,
      "EditedText": "I second you on that, Trish. We will have to work together, so rather than receiving individual briefings, it would be better to see how we interact.  It is better to receive training on any subject, such as on computers for those such as me who are technically challenged, in conjunction with others, as appropriate points are raised by others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C638254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 638254,
      "EditedText": "What will the meeting cycle be? Will it be determined by the legislative programme? Will the committee meet as regularly as other committees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Subordinate Legislation Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 19249,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 638232,
      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 10:46"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C638239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 19250,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 19250,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 638239,
      "EditedText": "This may not be relevant, but I will declare it anyway. I am the chief executive and director of Kilmarnock Football Club. I am on a career break, so that post is unremunerated, although some attendant contractual benefits still accrue. My wife is a partner in the law firm Coyle and Welsh, which operates out of Prestwick and Girvan."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 19250,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 19250,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 638240,
      "EditedText": "When I declared financial interests I was told that I had to declare that I had been a teacher for three days after the election. I have been a teacher for a long time, but I actually had a salary from 6 to 9 May."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 19251,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 19251,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 638244,
      "EditedText": "Kenny MacAskill was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 19252,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Kenny MacAskill): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 638245,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Trish. We now move on to item 3 on the agenda, which is the remit of the committee and topics for further briefing. You have probably had an opportunity to read the pack that was provided and to consider what our role is.The first thing that we are required to do is discuss the remit of the committee and any topics—that will assist us in carrying out our work—on which you wish to briefed. I have been advised that, although the standing orders provide that committees will not normally have formal meetings during the recess, it will be possible to deal with informal briefings through the recess. That is something that we may wish to consider. The clerks have made two suggestions in particular, which are that the Parliament's legal office and the solicitor's office in the Scottish Office may provide us with appropriate advice. We must discuss what we wish to consider in terms of the content and timing of those briefings. My view, for those who are not of a legal background, is that a bibliography or a lexicon could be part and parcel of the briefing. I am conscious that, although as a legal profession we have attempted to use plain English, there are words and phrases that might be obscure.Do members wish to comment on the committee's remit? I appreciate that, unlike other committees, we do not have a particular policy direction and members may not have vested interests or particular paths that they wish to follow."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C638248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 638248,
      "EditedText": "This is not a very sexy committee but it becomes important if we get things wrong—it is not so important if we get them right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1854E38P164C638250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Godman, Trish",
      "ID": 1854,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Renfrewshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 638250,
      "EditedText": "I have a question that may be relevant—I suppose we are all saying that this morning. The Immigration and Asylum Bill is going through the UK Parliament. That bill will not be changed before Thursday. As has already been commented on in the Parliament, the bill will affect a number of acts here quite dramatically: the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968; the Housing (Scotland) Act 1987; the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984; and the Children (Scotland) Act 1995. It will particularly affect section 12 of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968. What will the position of the UK Parliament be after 1 July, when we will be legally responsible for those acts, among other things? Will the UK Parliament be able to pass legislation after 1 July that affect acts for which we are responsible? If it does so, can we then decide to \"undo\" what it has done?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2112E192P495C638251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 19252,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 19252,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacAskill, Kenny",
      "ID": 2112,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 638251,
      "EditedText": "The excellent advice that I have received is that we can seek legal advice on that. I lodged a parliamentary question on detention. I was initially advised that the matter was ultra vires because immigration is a reserved power, but when I pointed out that the method of detention was within the remit of the Scottish Prison Service, the question was accepted.We may want to raise the interaction of Scottish and UK legislation with the Scottish Office. Presumably, further subordinate legislation will spring out in due course from the amended legislation, over which we have no control or influence at present. We could ask for briefing on that, so that Scottish Office officials could come forewarned and forearmed with a description of how the interaction will work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C638258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 19252,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 638258,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:10."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:18.5312257+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C638238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Subordinate Legislation Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3609
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Subordinate Legislation Committee",
      "ID": 173
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 19250,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 19250,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 638238,
      "EditedText": "I am a self-employed solicitor, of Ewing and Co, and the heritable proprietor of the office premises within which the business practises. I am a member of the Federation of Small Businesses, the Scottish Council Development and Industry, the Forum of Private Business, the Law Society of Scotland and the Scottish Law Agents Society—all unpaid."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:26.0699041+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 578422,
      "EditedText": "Can you clarify the outcome of our discussion on the Scottish fisheries zone?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.897927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578445",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 578445,
      "EditedText": "A lot of paperwork and expense would be involved if we started writing to everyone in the country who has an interest in rural affairs. Perhaps an initial letter could go out to interested organisations, asking how they want to be updated—whether they are happy to check the website or whether they would like a note of each meeting sent to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.897927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 578462,
      "EditedText": "It is important to avoid constantly committing ourselves to huge investigations. We should have quicker investigations and longer ones. The pig industry is a valid subject for a quick investigation, because it is only one aspect of the agriculture industry. We could also have more wide-ranging investigations into Scottish agriculture as a whole. When we suggest an investigation into a particular aspect of agriculture, we must avoid saying that we should also investigate x, y and z."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.897927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 578485,
      "EditedText": "I have suggested that some issues could be investigated quickly. Perhaps one of those subjects could be investigated over the summer. Other, more wide-ranging issues, could be investigated over a longer period. I would like to know other members' views on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 578504,
      "EditedText": "Would it be in order for the committee to visit any of the agricultural shows that are taking place over the recess?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 578506,
      "EditedText": "But what about visiting them as a committee? Perhaps we can do that next year."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17608,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 578412,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 16:16"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17608,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17608,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Alex Johnstone): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 578413,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for your indulgence during the informal briefing session that took place before this meeting. I should take this early opportunity to offer the committee's gratitude to those who contributed to the informal work we were able to do today. We were particularly glad to welcome the Minister for Rural Affairs, Ross Finnie, and the Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs, John Home Robertson, whose contribution was valuable. We hope that we have established a sound working relationship with those two men. I also thank Mr John Graham, Mr Andrew Brown, Mr David Dickson, Mr George Thomson and Mr David Henderson-Howatt, who were also present at the briefing and who were able to contribute to our discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17610,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 578423,
      "EditedText": "Is it the opinion of this committee that the definition of the Scottish fisheries zone should be among our initial priorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578436",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 578436,
      "EditedText": "Do you think that that would be appropriate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578441",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 578441,
      "EditedText": "That would be particularly important when we consider unemployment, housing and poverty. When we move around the country, we should ensure that local voluntary organisations and community representatives have an opportunity to speak to this committee and that we gather evidence across the community, rather than examine Government agencies and local authorities alone. We need to be inclusive and to trawl as much information as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 578460,
      "EditedText": "If we start to promote the Scottish beef industry—which I favour—we must not forget an agricultural industry in Scotland that is in a worse state, if that is possible: the Scottish pig industry. We must promote Scottish agriculture as a whole."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 578463,
      "EditedText": "If we define it as consideration of beef exports and the beef-on-the-bone ban, would that be an appropriate focus?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 578469,
      "EditedText": "This committee should openly work towards gathering information from community and voluntary organisations, rather than just listen to what they have to say on issues, which is quite different."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 578473,
      "EditedText": "I would not want anyone to think that just because an item is not on the list that we discussed at our informal meeting it cannot come before this committee. I have received a lot of mail recently about theoretical legislation that would ban hunting with dogs. If it came to the fore, I hope that we would be able to discuss that matter, although it is not on the list. I presume that we have no no-go areas for discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 578478,
      "EditedText": "Is there anything else that we should cover?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 578479,
      "EditedText": "As Mr Macdonald said, any aspects of the economy that affect rural communities are appropriate subjects for discussion by this committee. My particular concern is the reluctance of the Scottish Office to fund new community halls in rural areas. Many communities have solicited quite large sums of money from various groups and agencies. One such community has accumulated £430,000 from various sources, but the Scottish Office's piece of the jigsaw has not been forthcoming. That community's dilemma is that, unless that money is forthcoming, it will probably not go ahead with the project and it will lose the funding that it has so far secured. Is this committee able to address that situation, or would it more appropriately be addressed by another committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 578480,
      "EditedText": "If we were given a rough outline, we could inquire whether that case falls within the remit of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 578495,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would be appropriate for you to set an agenda for a first meeting. If things develop to such an extent that you feel it would be useful to have witnesses at that first meeting, you should take the initiative and arrange that. That way, when we have our first meeting, we will do something rather than discuss, yet again, what we are going to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 578496,
      "EditedText": "I would not organise witnesses without consultation. My plan would be to consult all members of this committee, let them know what is happening in advance of the meeting and to have their informal approval. Have we established a pattern with which we would like to continue? Is it appropriate at this stage to schedule a meeting during the recess? Do members feel that that is necessary?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 578498,
      "EditedText": "The standing orders state that it would not normally be the practice of this committee to meet during the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 578499,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is appropriate to follow those orders. Given your commitment to consult all members on how to proceed, should circumstances change during the recess such that you feel it is necessary to have a meeting, we would obviously expect you to contact us and discuss it with us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 578502,
      "EditedText": "Mid-August.Several Members indicated agreement.Several Members indicated disagreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 578503,
      "EditedText": "The third week of August might be suitable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 578507,
      "EditedText": "Is there anything else that we need to raise during this meeting?If there is nothing else that we need to discuss, I would like to thank you all for you attendance. I am grateful for the effort that you have all put in. It has been a long afternoon given the informal session that went before this formal meeting. I thank you all for your commitment to rural Scotland. I hope that we all achieve what we want to achieve when we return from the recess and get the results of the investigations. Thank you very much for your help."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578435",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 578435,
      "EditedText": "Given that we have a list of priorities at least, would it be appropriate to contact interested organisations in order to flag up the fact that we have identified these issues, in case there are aspects that they want to draw to the committee's attention?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.897927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578439",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 578439,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the clerk will be able to advise us. I do not think that we should take decisions about priorities when organisations that are concerned about those priorities do not know that the Rural Affairs Committee has taken such decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.897927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 578483,
      "EditedText": "Are we going to take decisions today to begin investigations into any particular issues? I would not like to think that, when most other committees are beginning to investigate issues, the Rural Affairs Committee will go away for the recess without initiating any investigations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 17609,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17609,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 578414,
      "EditedText": "For the first formal business today, it falls to me to ask Cathy Peattie to make her formal declaration of interests relevant to the work of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 578426,
      "EditedText": "I think the conclusion we came to was that we would revisit that item to decide whether we want to consider it after the consultations between the Secretary of State for Scotland, the Scottish Fishermen's Federation and the industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578429",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 578429,
      "EditedText": "Do members have any opinions on which research papers they wish to receive first?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578430",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 578430,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that the order that we have agreed is compatible with the substance of our informal discussion, and that the committee would be well served if we were to proceed on that basis."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578431",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 578431,
      "EditedText": "Would you wish these papers also to be circulated to members on completion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578437",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 578437,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would be, in terms of the committee's identified priorities—the seven items that you listed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578443",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 578443,
      "EditedText": "I am told that the primary method of distribution is the website. Is that an appropriate way for the minutes to be distributed or do members feel that we need to do something better?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578448",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 578448,
      "EditedText": "Have you any suggestions about how we could get that information out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578449",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 578449,
      "EditedText": "You could put out a press release or something of that sort via the appropriate media."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578452",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 578452,
      "EditedText": "No, I think that we need to take it that that item refers only to Scottish forestry strategy. The initial suggestion on approval and implementation may take us beyond the remit of this committee—considering the Scottish forestry strategy as a whole would be the appropriate topic for this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578453",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 578453,
      "EditedText": "There was a suggestion that we should get further information or a paper on this topic. I think that the committee might benefit from that. The issue has an effect on the whole of the rural economy of Scotland in as much as most of the Forestry Commission's activities are undertaken in remote glens and areas of the countryside where there is limited access. As members will understand, that has a knock-on effect on transport and the road system in those fragile areas. We should have a paper on the long-term strategy of the forestry industry and how it proposes to support the communities in which its activities take place. I know that local authority roads and transport departments would dearly like the Forestry Commission to accept much more responsibility for the road systems in the areas where it is active."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578455",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 578455,
      "EditedText": "Can you suggest a title?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 578458,
      "EditedText": "Yes. That is a long title."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578461",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 578461,
      "EditedText": "The idea behind giving priority to the beef industry was that we wanted to promote it. We must look for a title that will narrow that down again: consideration of beef exports and the beef-on-the-bone ban?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 578466,
      "EditedText": "If members do not have comments on other priorities, it is the view of this committee to ask the research department to produce any information that is available to it on the issues that we have prioritised. We have also agreed to ask it to identify interested groups with which we might want to make contact, and that we should establish such contact as early as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 578467,
      "EditedText": "Contact with groups and individuals with expert knowledge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 578471,
      "EditedText": "I am still a bit confused. We agreed our seven priorities, and Richard reminded us that we had agreed to consider the definition of the Scottish fisheries zone. Then you seemed to imply that that was included in those seven priorities. Will you clarify that that issue is not included in the seven immediate priorities that we agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 578474,
      "EditedText": "This committee is open to any suggestions at any time on issues that it ought to consider. Were the Parliament to decide to act on that issue, it would immediately become a priority for this committee to consider any legislation that was introduced."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 578481,
      "EditedText": "I have written to the minister, from whom I hope to receive a response."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578487",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 578487,
      "EditedText": "Do members agree?"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578488",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 578488,
      "EditedText": "We agreed that employment, housing and poverty in rural areas should be at the top of our agenda. Having had discussions and having come to that agreement, we should not go back on that. If there is a specific issue within that subject area that we can investigate—Initiative at the Edge was suggested earlier—perhaps we should consider doing that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578490",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 578490,
      "EditedText": "Initiative at the Edge is an initiative to protect employment and the economy in the more fragile rural communities. It has now existed long enough to merit some examination by this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 578492,
      "EditedText": "Are you suggesting that, initially, we should try to investigate the pattern of job losses in rural Scotland?Dr Murray indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 578493,
      "EditedText": "I am in danger of lengthening this discussion, but I support Alasdair's view. When we come back at the end of August, beef on the bone and the promotion of the beef industry should be this committee's No 1 priority. I know that we have just said that creating and sustaining jobs is our No 1 overarching priority, but if the beef-on-the-bone ban has not been lifted by the end of August or the beginning of September and if the beef exporting situation has not improved by then, the beef industry will expect this committee to do something to move the issue along. If we initiate an investigation into anything, that is what we should be investigating."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 578497,
      "EditedText": "What for?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 578500,
      "EditedText": "Is that the view of all members? Would it be fair to say that the next formal meeting will take place after the recess at the earliest opportunity? We have an informal invitation for members of this committee to visit the Scottish Office agriculture, environment and fisheries department to meet officials. If it can be organised for a suitable time, do members think that it is appropriate to have that meeting during the recess? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 578505,
      "EditedText": "I think that all members of the committee should be visiting all the agricultural shows."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 17609,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17609,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 578415,
      "EditedText": "The only one is that, until October, I am convener of the Council of Voluntary Service Scotland, which is made up of council voluntary services throughout the country. Half the council voluntary services in CVS Scotland work in rural areas, and are funded through Rural Forum Scotland or through the Scottish Office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 17609,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17609,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 578416,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I should point out to members who are unaware of it that, because Cathy was unable to attend the first meeting of this committee, she was not present when all members were asked to make their formal declarations. That is why Cathy was asked to do so at this point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 578417,
      "EditedText": "The main business of this meeting is to consider the committee's initial work programme. We have already had a substantial informal discussion and we have come to a loose agreement on the issues we would like to put forward for consideration by the committee. They are: employment, housing and poverty in rural areas; the implementation of the EU common agricultural policy, including Agenda 2000; a strategic vision for fishing; an examination of the beef-on-the-bone problem and the attempts to lift the export ban; transport in rural areas; and Scottish forestry strategy. We also include assessment of the impact of land reform on rural areas, and of the forthcoming bills, in our list of priorities. The list was effectively chosen by means of a poll of members—members ticked priorities on a list. The issues that I have mentioned came top. After informal discussion, one or two of the priorities were combined and they have been added to the list of proposals. Is it the wish of the committee that, in our initial work programme, we proceed with the priorities I have mentioned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 578418,
      "EditedText": "With the inclusion of the additional items we grouped together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 578419,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 578420,
      "EditedText": "The suggestion that the strategic vision for fishing should include the salmon farming industry and, in particular, the issue of infectious salmon anaemia, was predictable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 578421,
      "EditedText": "Yes, the strategic vision for fishing will include fish farming and the problems associated with that industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 578424,
      "EditedText": "I thought that we had agreed that it was not going to be. Was not that agreed during our informal discussion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 578425,
      "EditedText": "The informal discussion was, indeed, an informal discussion. Any matter can be raised at this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578427",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 578427,
      "EditedText": "We will take the view that the Scottish fisheries boundary will remain a very high priority for this committee, and that we will assess it in the light of future reports. Is there any specific research that members wish to request into the areas that we have defined?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578428",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 578428,
      "EditedText": "Is it feasible for the Scottish Parliament information centre to produce some initial papers to get us started in our discussions? Given our work load with the other committees, is that possible, or do we need to prioritise further which research papers we wish to receive first?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578432",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 578432,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578433",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 578433,
      "EditedText": "There is one caveat—the business of the beef export ban. Proposals are before one of the veterinary committees in Europe, and the topic is of some immediacy. The date-based scheme may be approved next month, perchance, but we all know that that will not be the end of the story and that a lot of work is needed to recreate the market. I suggest that that issue should be fairly high up the list—not necessarily as a big item, but as one we can consider fairly quickly after the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578434",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 578434,
      "EditedText": "Richard, do you want to add anything?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578438",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 578438,
      "EditedText": "Are there any specific organisations that you would like to contact?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578440",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 578440,
      "EditedText": "I wish to make a broader suggestion. Perhaps the clerks ought to draw up a database of organisations that would be interested in almost anything we discuss. Organisations could choose the most relevant bits and draw our attention to anything they can add to our discussions. Such a mailing list should inform them not only about the issues that we are to consider but about our programme of meetings. That is useful information that external bodies need to know, so that they can send delegates along or ensure that they are aware of where and when such meetings take place. A comprehensive mailing list is not a bad idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578442",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 578442,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the minutes of these committee meetings are public documents. How widely are they distributed to interested parties so that they may become aware of the topics that we are discussing and how we are thinking?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C578444",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 578444,
      "EditedText": "A number of voluntary organisations do not have access to computers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578446",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 578446,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we proceed on the basis that we establish a database of interested organisations with which we wish to communicate. The list should be circulated to members of this committee and an initial letter sent to open communication with those organisations at an early stage. Given the closeness of the recess, the letter should be sent to the organisations on the list as soon as it is prepared. Members should assess the list and inform us if they feel that anyone has been missed from it. We could then do a second mailing of the initial letter as soon as members' comments are returned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578447",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 578447,
      "EditedText": "It is also possible to invite organisations to contact us—through the media or whatever—in case organisations exist of which we are not aware but which might want to make an input. Can we invite people to be proactive and to suggest to us that they would like to be included in our database so that they can be kept informed about what we discuss?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578450",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 578450,
      "EditedText": "We could try that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578451",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 578451,
      "EditedText": "We seem to be approving the inclusion of Scottish forestry strategy, but we do not know enough about it to approve—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578454",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 578454,
      "EditedText": "On the title of the investigation that we have agreed to hold into beef, we should consider how to promote the beef industry and beef exports rather than suggest that the beef-on-the-bone ban should be the lead topic. It is important that we get it the right way round and show that we are looking at the industry and its prospects as a whole."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 578456,
      "EditedText": "Initiatives to promote Scottish beef including consideration of the beef-on-the-bone ban."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 578457,
      "EditedText": "And the beef export ban."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 578459,
      "EditedText": "We could call it consideration of the Scottish beef industry and drop the specific issues from the title, accepting that they will still be included."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 578465,
      "EditedText": "We have agreed on our priorities. We should now return to the committee's remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 578468,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We have crossed over slightly. We are talking about expert groups and individuals, and groups we want to inform of the committee's work. Would it be appropriate to suggest that those would be two different lists, although there may be overlaps?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 578470,
      "EditedText": "As long as we are clear on what those two definitions mean.We have come to the end of the agenda. Is there anything else that members would like to contribute?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 578472,
      "EditedText": "No, it is an issue that is being dealt with by the Parliament. We would like to retain an interest in it, and revisit it in the near future, if necessary. However, it falls outwith our initial seven priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 578476,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem whatever in agreeing with Richard's definition of this committee's role."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17610,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 578477,
      "EditedText": "We agreed at the previous meeting that our remit would cover all aspects of rural development and anything impacting on it. That should remain our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
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      "ID": 17610,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 578482,
      "EditedText": "For future reference, we should mention those circumstances to discover whether they fall within the remit of this committee. Any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 578484,
      "EditedText": "It has been suggested that we would have to define very clearly how we wanted to proceed with an investigation. Do you have any suggestions?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
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      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 578486,
      "EditedText": "Yes. On the promotion of beef, we are writing to organisations for evidence or submissions. A lot of those submissions will be received over the next few months. Surely, between ourselves and the clerks, it would be possible to suggest a panel of potential interviewees to whom we would like to speak as soon as we return. That approach could apply equally to any other subject."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17610,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 578489,
      "EditedText": "I am not familiar with that project."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 578491,
      "EditedText": "Some groundwork can be done. For example, in employment we can consider where employment is being lost; the patterns of loss of employment and the growth areas. If the loss of the younger population is an issue, is it because employment is being lost? A scene-setting exercise can be done so that we are aware of the truth behind the stories and so that we know where we are losing employment, what sort of employment is being lost and what sort of employment is growing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 578494,
      "EditedText": "Given that we have assessed the situation and that we feel that some issues will be longer term than others, I suggest that it would be appropriate for us to investigate initially the pattern of job losses in rural Scotland and the beef industry and the continuing effects of the export ban."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17610,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 578501,
      "EditedText": "Can I have a rough indication of when would be suitable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 578508,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 16:45."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.9075351+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 578464,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.897927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3219
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Programme",
      "HeadingID": 17610,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 17610,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 578475,
      "EditedText": "It is important for us to clarify our terms of reference and to remind ourselves that the committee is independent of party politics and the Executive. We should be able to investigate any issue that has an impact on rural communities and to make decisions as an independent committee. The committee must respond to the actions of the Executive, because part of our responsibility is to scrutinise those actions and to hold the Executive to account. We should also respond to concerns throughout rural communities in Scotland as an independent-minded committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.9135571+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520053",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 520053,
      "EditedText": "I have not had a chance to read it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520076",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 520076,
      "EditedText": "Oh, it is about football. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520026",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 14181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 14181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 520026,
      "EditedText": "I will not say that I do this happily, John, but I give the chair over to you. Good luck in the things that you do and in the way that you guide us in the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520029",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 520029,
      "EditedText": "I would like to make a couple of points. First, could the pages of papers that we receive be numbered? If we are going to ask questions about a paper, it is easier if the pages are numbered and we can refer to page 2 or page 3.Secondly, I would like to ask about item 5 on what is page 3 of the briefing paper, which says:\"A petition may be lodged with the Clerk, or sent to the Clerk by e-mail, on a sitting day.\"Could the convener clarify that for me? Is it only on a sitting day that petitions will be accepted?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520032",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 520032,
      "EditedText": "We may well refer petitions on the M8 to the committee that handles that subject area, rather than deal with it ourselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520033",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 520033,
      "EditedText": "I was thinking about petitions that we were not handing over to other committees, and wondering whether, if a petition came from Glasgow or Stirling, for example, we could go there to hear from members of the public. The only reason I had for mentioning the M8 was that, if people are travelling to Edinburgh, there will be added expense for them if the toll charges come about."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520034",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 520034,
      "EditedText": "That could certainly be considered by the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520036",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 520036,
      "EditedText": "As well as the paper that contained the remit of this committee, we received the briefing paper that Sandra asked about. In it, the clerk has indicated matters for consideration and further briefing. The first is the handling of petitions. It is suggested that we should have a meeting—not a formal meeting but an informal meeting—to discuss a paper that the clerk has prepared on how the committee might handle petitions. The paper goes into far greater detail than we can do at the moment, so it may be to our advantage to meet, if possible, before we rise on 2 July, which would mean meeting tomorrow. I do not know what members of the committee feel about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520045",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 520045,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, there must be some discussion on the subject matter and on what the appropriate action should be, but normally we would refer the petition to another committee.The other question that will come up is how we monitor the progress of a petition. The committee should take charge of doing that, so that we can ensure that petitions do not just disappear into other subject committees or into the Executive and are never heard of again. We must ensure that a petition is properly timetabled and dealt with accordingly and that committees respond as we recommend.I have seen the draft paper that the clerk produced, and I think that once everyone has had a chance to see it, things will be a lot clearer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520057",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 520057,
      "EditedText": "I have an interest in that petition, but I have no hard feelings about members wanting to try and establish just what is in it. In future, however, if we get late petitions, perhaps we should have a 10-minute adjournment to let members consider them. We could discuss that next time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520070",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 520070,
      "EditedText": "I imagine that we would need to meet regularly. Our business could not be left for a month or six weeks, because one of the things that we want to be sure of is that petitions are dealt with timeously. If they go beyond their sell-by date, we shall have a problem representing those interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520071",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 520071,
      "EditedText": "The suggestion is that we meet fortnightly to begin with. If that is okay, we will continue to do so, otherwise we will meet more regularly—and if there is not enough work, we will meet less regularly. It all depends on the Scottish people, and on how they petition Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520083",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 520083,
      "EditedText": "If no one wishes to raise anything else at this stage, I thank members for your attendance. I look forward to seeing you early in the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520019",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 14180,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14180,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 520019,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps I should begin the declarations of guilt by saying that I support and am a member of Shelter, the housing charity, and of the Child Poverty Action Group, which may on occasion petition this committee. I am also a member of Scottish Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, but as defence is not a devolved area, I would not expect Scottish CND to lobby the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:46.7214206+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520020",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 14180,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14180,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 520020,
      "EditedText": "We will try to keep that interest quiet, John, and ensure that Tony Blair does not get to know. Laughter. Does anyone else want to declare an interest? No? In that case, I will declare an interest. I tend to abuse power whenever given it, and I proudly announce that I have brought along a petition from the Ayrshire chamber of commerce and industry relating to the A77. It will be presented later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:46.7214206+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520021",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 14181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 14181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 520021,
      "EditedText": "It is my responsibility to take nominations for convener of this committee, someone to take us through the next four years. As agreed by Parliament, the convener should come from the Labour party."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:46.7214206+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520023",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 14181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ID": 14181,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 520023,
      "EditedText": "I second that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520042",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 520042,
      "EditedText": "That does not seem to me to be within the remit of this committee; we are constrained to considering simply whether a petition is admissible, and that is all. The merits of the petition will be for another committee to decide, before the petition can be passed to the Parliament. The rules appear to say that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520055",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 520055,
      "EditedText": "That would be preferable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520066",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 520066,
      "EditedText": "It is the Public Petitions Committee—it should meet in public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C520074",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 520074,
      "EditedText": "Bosman rules?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0478559+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520018",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 14180,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 14180,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 520018,
      "EditedText": "I would like any of you to say whether there are any special interests that you feel you should declare to the committee. We have already made a similar declaration in line with the requirements of the Parliament, but at the first meeting of each committee we have a look at the things that we do and, if anything is of specific relevance to the work of the committee, we have an opportunity to declare it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:46.7214206+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520028",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 520028,
      "EditedText": "We go on to item 3 on the agenda, which is \"Remit of Committee and Topics for Further Briefing\". I think that the ability of people to petition the Scottish Parliament is extremely important. I am sure that it is part of the vision that the consultative steering group had for public access to the Scottish Parliament, so the role of this committee will be critical.From experience, I know that the way in which petitions are handled at Westminster is completely unacceptable. I hope that most members of this committee feel the same. At Westminster, the public can only petition through their member of Parliament, and the member of Parliament can only present the petition in a very formal way—by dropping it into the bag behind the Speaker's chair. Whether or not to respond to the petition, or even to have it published in the Official Report, is completely at the discretion of the Executive. Obviously, we intend to be very different from Westminster, and to open up the Scottish Parliament to petitioning by ordinary members of the public.I hope that you all managed to get the papers for this meeting that were issued to all committee members. Among them was a paper setting out our remit. Has anyone got any comments on that paper, or any other points that they would like to make?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520037",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 520037,
      "EditedText": "As far as I am aware, there are no restraints on the committee meeting during the recess. I do not think that I will be able to come tomorrow, but I would be very happy if we could find a mutually convenient time to come together during the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520040",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 520040,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has suggested that he could contact individual members of the committee to arrange a date that would be acceptable to us all when we could meet early in the recess. We would then have the chance to discuss the paper on the handling of petitions, which will be issued at the end of the meeting so that everyone can get a good look at it.Are there any views on how petitions should be handled until the committee has made the decisions on how it intends to operate? I think that the clerk can explain—no, he cannot, because he is not allowed to speak. Laughter. That is why he keeps whispering in my ear and I keep telling you what he is saying.We have already received a number of petitions—three, I think—and Phil has already referred to the one from Ayrshire that he has organised. The proposal is that the clerk simply acknowledges them and tells the petitioners that the committee is working out the procedures by which it will operate, and that, once procedures have been decided, the committee will deal with the subject matter of the petitions and get back in touch with them. Is that acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520043",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 520043,
      "EditedText": "Things will be a lot clearer once members see the paper that has been prepared. It deals with all those concerns and it explains the remit of the committee and the various options that we can take when a petition comes before us—whether the petition should go to a committee, to the Executive, to some outside body, or straight to the Parliament. The subject matter will ultimately be decided by the Parliament; it will not be decided by this committee. It is not for us to take decisions on the merits of petitions, but it is for us to take decisions on how the petition is dealt with and to ensure that it is dealt with in accordance with our agreed position."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520044",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 520044,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that you are correct when you say that that is strictly the remit of the committee, but you must go some way towards establishing what is in a particular petition in order to identify the issues and decide whether it can be accepted. The question is where you stop short of a full discussion on the A77 or whatever."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520046",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 520046,
      "EditedText": "We must consider the use of the Official Report, and whether petitions are logged in and progressed through it. Also, some of the petitions that we get will be relevant to an issue of the day and will have to be dealt with quickly—time will be an important factor."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520047",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 520047,
      "EditedText": "Those are issues on which the committee can take a view. We will recommend that a committee or the Parliament should respond to a petition within a certain time scale. It is important that people see that we pay attention to their petitions, and that this Parliament does not just write off petitions and drop them in a bag, in the way that they do in Westminster. Is it agreed, then, that we should issue the clerk's paper at the end of the meeting and reconvene early in the recess to discuss setting up mechanisms for the committee? Then we will be able to get on with the business of dealing with the petitions as such."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520052",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 520052,
      "EditedText": "The next petition is from the Ayrshire chamber of commerce and industry, on the A77 upgrade. The clerk suggests that we should pass it to the Scottish Executive and request comment from it, or pass it to the Transport and the Environment Committee for consideration. The clerk will also write to acknowledge receipt of the petition and tell the petitioners of the action that we have taken. Which is the preference—the Executive or the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520058",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 520058,
      "EditedText": "Phil was given that petition by the Ayrshire chamber of commerce; perhaps Shelter might give you one, Convener, or one might be handed to me. What are the legalities of that? Would I be allowed to speak on it and vote on it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520059",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 520059,
      "EditedText": "Anyone can present a petition. The consultative steering group was quite keen that there should be no restriction on petitioning Parliament. It is not possible to petition Westminster other than through an MP. We wanted to stop that, and to ensure that people could either petition through an MSP, or petition the Parliament directly by contacting the clerk's office. It can be done by hard copy, electronically, or by reading it in. That and the issues arising out of it are discussed in the draft paper."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520061",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 520061,
      "EditedText": "As long as you declare an interest—as Phil declared his."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520065",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 520065,
      "EditedText": "I should like to ask the committee for its views on whether to meet in public or in private. The CSG's view is that normally it should meet in public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520067",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 520067,
      "EditedText": "I cannot foresee any circumstance in which we might wish to meet in private, but if we did, we could take that decision as the question arose. The rule should be that normally we meet in public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520072",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 520072,
      "EditedText": "Fortnightly makes sense initially, but the frequency of meetings will be determined when we have clarified our remit, which, to be honest, is not entirely clear to me. Your sensible remark about making it part of our role to monitor the progress of petitions interests me. We must give ourselves a role and ensure that something happens to a petition when we have passed it on. We must develop that at the next meeting. If that is the role that we find for ourselves, that will help to determine how regularly we need to meet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520073",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 520073,
      "EditedText": "Members should not get the idea that we are restricted. It is open to petitions committees to widen their remit if they think that it is in the interests of the people. Football's Bosman rules, which have caused such terrible trouble for Scottish clubs, began with the Petitions Committee in the European Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520078",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 520078,
      "EditedText": "On a lighter note, I would say that the Bosman example is a good reason for getting rid of the Petitions Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520082",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 520082,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520084",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 520084,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:56."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2682777+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520016",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 14179,
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    },
    "Detail": {
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      "ContributionID": 520016,
      "EditedText": "The oldest member of the committee opened the meeting at 15:33"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520017",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Public Petitions Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 14179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 520017,
      "EditedText": "Welcome to the first meeting of the Public Petitions Committee. I am a long-serving oldest member in the chair to open these committees. This is my second today, and I suspect that very shortly you are going to throw me out of the chair of this one as well. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:46.7214206+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520022",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 14181,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 12.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 520022,
      "EditedText": "I nominate John McAllion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:46.7214206+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520024",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 520024,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. Are there any other nominations? No?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:46.7214206+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520025",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 520025,
      "EditedText": "Mr John McAllion was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520027",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr John McAllion): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 520027,
      "EditedText": "I have not been watching the other committees on the internal television—much to my disgrace—so I have to admit that I am not very sure of the form on these occasions, other than to thank Phil for giving up his seat in such a graceful manner. I do not think that I will get to say that on any other occasion in the next few years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520030",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 520030,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has just explained to me that a sitting day is defined as a day on which the office of the clerk is open. However, normally petitions will be accepted on any day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520031",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
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      "ID": 14182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 520031,
      "EditedText": "That is what I was going to ask—whether a petition would be accepted if it was sent in for our next meeting.I would also like to ask about item 4 on what I have counted as page 8, which deals with committees being able to move around the country. Especially now, with the toll charges on the M8 and with the charges for getting into Edinburgh, it might be advantageous for us to go to areas from which petitions have been submitted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C520035",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 520035,
      "EditedText": "To pick up on what Sandra has just said, I think that it would be very helpful indeed if the clerk could note where the bulk of the petitions to be considered had come from, and if we could go to a suitable location so that the people could see how their petitions were dealt with. I think that that would be a good idea."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520038",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 520038,
      "EditedText": "We have three options tomorrow: committee rooms are available between 9 am and 10.30 am, between 9.30 am and 11 am, and between 3.30 pm and 5 pm. It is up to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520039",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 520039,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Youth Parliament, which a lot of us want to go to, is being held tomorrow, and there are also various meetings on in the afternoon, so I cannot make it tomorrow either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C520041",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 520041,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the clerks are not able to speak, but I am not clear about how far we can go in discussing the content of a petition. I know that we have to decide where the petition will ultimately go—if it was about road pricing, for example, it would almost certainly go to the Transport and the Environment Committee. However, we need to discuss to what extent we, in this committee, can discuss petitions. We might need a procedure that clarifies how to decide how many issues are dealt with in a petition, because it might cross over into more than one committee. The tendency for all of us will be to get really stuck into an issue if we like it, but we need to clarify to what extent that is within the remit of the Public Petitions Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520048",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 520048,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520049",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 520049,
      "EditedText": "As you arrived, you were issued with papers detailing the petitions that we have already received. The clerk has noted a suggested action on each petition. The first comes from Cunningsburgh and Sandwick United Free Church of Scotland, and is about prayers in the Parliament. As you can see, the clerk suggests that we write and acknowledge receipt of the petition and explain that the Parliament is considering the issue; the petitioners' views will be brought to the attention of the Parliamentary Bureau. We will also give an undertaking that the petitioners will be informed when the Parliament reaches a view on the matter. Are we agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520050",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 520050,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C520051",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
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      "ID": 14182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 520051,
      "EditedText": "It might be a nice touch to say to the Church that its petition was the first to be dealt with by the Public Petitions Committee of the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520054",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 520054,
      "EditedText": "We could leave it until the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C520056",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 520056,
      "EditedText": "Will the next formal meeting be the one that we will have early in the recess? Phil's point about time often being of the essence is good, and we do not want that petition to hang about. We should consider it fairly speedily, but it should go to the next meeting so that we can have a chance to read it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520060",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
      "ID": 1865,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 520060,
      "EditedText": "My old council experience is coming up here. If anyone handed us anything, we could not discuss it. I wondered whether it was the same here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1865E219P509C520062",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "White, Sandra",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms White: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 520062,
      "EditedText": "That seems fair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520063",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 520063,
      "EditedText": "We will decide what to do with that petition at the next meeting.I have been asked to mention that a further petition is likely to be submitted by hand on 2 July, from the Hospitalfield Area Residents Association. It is about rapeseed crushing in the area. I am sure that we all know a great deal about that. The suggestion is that the clerk takes receipt of the petition and acknowledges it until the committee has time to deal with it. Is that agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520064",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 520064,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C520068",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
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      "ContributionID": 520068,
      "EditedText": "Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520069",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 14182,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 520069,
      "EditedText": "The frequency of meetings is difficult to judge, because it will depend on the frequency of petitions. I know that most members are also on other committees. What are members' views on how frequently the committee should meet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520075",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 520075,
      "EditedText": "Yes, the Petitions Committee got the issue on to the European Parliament agenda and it was taken up. It changed the law on who can play football and on the number of years for which a player can be contracted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520077",
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      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 520077,
      "EditedText": "We can widen our remit. In other countries, petitions can be used to instigate advisory referenda. Those are matters that we can discuss, including whether we see a similar role for this committee. It is up to us to decide how far we push the role of the committee—as long as it is within the terms of the Scotland Act 1998 and the spirit of the CSG proposals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520079",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 520079,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we could reverse Bosman through this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1778E91P257C520080",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Eadie, Helen",
      "ID": 1778,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Helen Eadie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 520080,
      "EditedText": "Can you advise whether there will be occasions on which you might convene a special meeting because of an urgent matter? Should we agree a procedure so that the convener and the clerk have a remit to call a special meeting? We would not want a petition to arise and then be attended to after the event because important business was going through Parliament. That would be bad news for the public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2090E83P266C520081",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Public Petitions Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2961
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Public Petitions Committee",
      "ID": 153
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 14182,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 14182,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McAllion, Mr John",
      "ID": 2090,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 520081,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly the kind of thing that we should debate at our next meeting—whether there should be criteria by which the clerk advises the convener to call a special meeting. Much of our business will become clearer once people have seen the paper, which goes into much more detail than we have seen so far on how the committee can operate.For the moment, are we agreed that we will have fortnightly meetings to begin with?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:47.2526568+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495215",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 13421,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13421,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 495215,
      "EditedText": "The Convener opened the meeting at 14:15"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495218",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Non-agenda Items",
      "HeadingID": 13423,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 13423,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 495218,
      "EditedText": "I want to make some points that are not on the agenda, one of which concerns the minute from the previous meeting. It was restricted to the declaration of interests, the appointment of the convener and the remit of the committee. Donald Gorrie raised the valid point that he lodged a paper at that meeting, which, unlike other papers that are presented as official papers for the committee's business, is not on record. If a paper is lodged in that way, that should be minuted and recorded as part of the record of the discussion so that the record is complete. I welcome our guest, Iain Smith, who has expressed an interest in the work of the committee. Although he is not a member, he would like to be present. He is welcome to participate in the committee's business. We will talk about the practicalities of that later in the meeting. I should also say, because it is not on the agenda, that the Presiding Officer has called a meeting tomorrow to discuss procedures, to which the clerk and I have been invited. We will report to the Presiding Officer and his deputies on the committee's deliberations and will receive representations from them about the business that they think we should prioritise. It is right that, in our work, we should reflect on their opinions. Before we get on to the substantive paper on issues that have been raised, we should be aware that we are not here to answer questions or to deal with the points that have been made; our remit is to identify the priorities for officials' work over the recess. I will suggest which points raised by members appear to be the most important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495221",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 495221,
      "EditedText": "We felt that discussion on the first items, on rule 2.2, would be more appropriate in the longer term than is possible in the current time scale. We will not know the balance between the chamber and the committees until we have more experience of the committees. Those are important matters, but we feel that they are not urgent. We felt that rule 3.7 could be left because we will not have to revisit it until the beginning of the next Parliament. I will ask Mike to say a bit more about his comment—we think that the comment came from Mike—on rule 5.1, because we wondered whether things had moved on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495223",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 495223,
      "EditedText": "We thought that statements could be looked at in the context of questions, because there is an ambiguity about whether statements are followed by debates or by questions. That would be a useful way to wrap the subject up, because it is becoming confusing. We felt that rule 5.9.2(f) could be looked at under the general heading of timetabling. Rule 7.2.2 could be taken in the context of the conduct of debates and speaking."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495225",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 495225,
      "EditedText": "Yes, because it deals with speaking times."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495227",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 495227,
      "EditedText": "Many of these points relate to the time that it takes to develop an argument and the time that should be allocated for debate, all of which come under the generic heading of speaking. That is a valid point, at which the officials will look; they will give us options on it at the end of the recess. We felt that the comment on rule 8.15 was not a priority because the issue that it concerns has not yet arisen; we will have to deal with it when it does arise. I presume that how motions for adjournment and closure are dealt with will depend on the time of day that they come. We felt that that was rather theoretical. Rule 8.2 also relates to timetabling. We think that it is a matter more of streamlining business than for laying down in the standing orders. Officials will consider it and report back to us. Rule 8.5 is similar. These are some of the matters on which we will be making representations to the bureau rather than writing into the standing orders.The same applies to rule 8.5.5. We felt that there was something in rule 8.6 that the business managers should look at again. We do not have a clear view about whether this is a big problem; we should pause for a few minutes to ascertain whether members have a view on it. The issue was raised by the clerks, but may reflect some of the practical difficulties. Mike may have encountered the problem when he looked at amendments to motions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495232",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 495232,
      "EditedText": "Those are issues that the report will address; at that stage, the committee will take a view on the options. We are trying not to pre-empt the committee's report, which will be issued at the end of the recess, but I agree that it is an important issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495235",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 495235,
      "EditedText": "The point in the annex about rule 8.6.1 in the standing orders can be dealt with without any change to the standing orders—the official report could insert the appropriate words and print the amendment."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495236",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 495236,
      "EditedText": "That point can be noted and put to the editor of the official report as a practical suggestion.The point about ambiguity in rule 13.2.1 is important and touches on the point that we made a moment ago. It is not clear what should happen after a ministerial statement, and we must look at that in the context of questioning. Will it be a question time or a debate? Can the Parliament decide on the spot? Those are the sorts of options that must be looked at.The clerk and I did not feel that there was any particular need to deal with the issue of admissibility of questions. It was felt that common sense would work that out in the fullness of time.The answer to the question about rule 13.5 was fairly obvious—that it was not, perhaps, appropriate for standing orders to be changed at this stage. That is also something that is likely to work itself out in the fullness of time.Rules 13.5, 13.6 and 13.7 relate to question time. We felt that all the issues raised needed exploration. Urgent questions, notice of questions, the role of the First Minister in question time and ministers' question times are all substantive issues that merit investigation.Mr McCabe has joined us. Do you wish to sit at the table as part of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495242",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 495242,
      "EditedText": "The idea is that the officers will look at those issues over the summer. They will come to a meeting which we will arrange for early in the autumn—some time in early September. We will then need time for the reports to be considered, for the views expressed in them to circulate and for feedback to be gathered. Mid-October would be the appropriate time by which we would make a recommendation to the Parliament about the adoption of standing orders, including any amendments that we had discussed. We can spend longer on the other matters. We cannot really address issues such as committees and legislation until we have some experience of handling them.We know about speaking, voting, questioning and about the role of the presiding officers. Those are all practical problems that we have come up against in the past few weeks. We have all identified what we think are problems or deficiencies—those are the areas about which we felt members had expressed the greatest concern. Those, therefore, are the areas that we should seek to amend by the autumn.The comment about Opposition debates is a matter for the Parliament; it will take a decision in the light of members' views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 495251,
      "EditedText": "The decision could be made separately from that on the standing orders in September, or whenever. The matter is not listed in this brief as a standing order issue, so we could put it to the Parliament either with a recommendation or without one. As the convener rightly said, it is a matter that everyone should vote on and that we should just get on with. I do not see why we have to wait for further standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 495259,
      "EditedText": "I thought that the convener's statement indicated that there were other views even in the Conservative party. I am sure that that was not lost on Mr McCabe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 495260,
      "EditedText": "Mr McLetchie's comments on the recess dates, after the Parliamentary Bureau had reached a consensus on the matter, were not lost on me either, but there we have it. Other people interpret consensus differently from me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 495262,
      "EditedText": "Shall we return to the discussion of procedures?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 495263,
      "EditedText": "Can we have clarification of when and how the report will be issued to us? How much time will we have to consider it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 495264,
      "EditedText": "I have already outlined that, but I will do so again. We felt that a meeting should take place on 7 or 8 September, but that people's diaries were unlikely to lend themselves to our making a final decision on that today. However, we will examine the programme and fit in a meeting on one of those days. By that stage, there will be papers on all the issues, which will be placed before us for discussion. After discussing, debating and—if necessary—voting, we will issue the papers. Over the next month, there will be two further meetings of the committee, during which we will have the option of taking evidence or opinions from people who have an interest in this matter, and of giving members of the Parliament the opportunity to respond with their views. That gives us another two weeks—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 495266,
      "EditedText": "As soon as they are ready."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 495267,
      "EditedText": "When will that be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 495269,
      "EditedText": "Can we be notified of a date by early August, as diaries begin to fill up quite quickly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 495270,
      "EditedText": "One aspect of procedure that I would like to consider at some stage is the habit of having clerks mutter to conveners rather than advise the committee directly. There is nothing secret going on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 495272,
      "EditedText": "Surely it is up to individual committees to make that decision."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 495275,
      "EditedText": "We should decide for this committee and feed that decision back through appropriate channels—via the clerk—with a view to other committees' adopting the procedure as a model of good working practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 495280,
      "EditedText": "We do not necessarily want to revisit the whole business, but during the recess the officers will identify areas where they have questions about the thinking that went into the original decisions. It might be useful for them to make approaches, as well as to consider lining up oral responses for us at a later stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 495281,
      "EditedText": "On the handling of parliamentary questions, for example—which was a clear recommendation of the consultative steering group report but seems to have found favour with very few members—it would, as a matter of courtesy and fairness, be helpful to know from the relevant members of the CSG what was in their mind. I would not want to throw out the procedure in its entirety, because there might be a rationale for it that we have simply not discovered. The CSG itself may want to propose a change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 495283,
      "EditedText": "That is undoubtedly true."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495285",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 495285,
      "EditedText": "That is a point well made. We should not take an inquisitorial approach to the group or say to it, \"You got this wrong, why did you do it?\" This is about seeking clarification and establishing whether there is an angle on the problem that the group missed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 495289,
      "EditedText": "Paper PR/99/2/4 deals with other MSPs' attendance at meetings of the committee. Clearly, that is permitted and all interest is welcome. The question is whether we should provide papers for those members who indicate a desire to attend. I think that we should be as open and co-operative as we can. If Mr Smith wishes to come regularly, we will be delighted to see him and to issue him with papers. The same courtesy applies to Mr McCabe or any other member of the Parliament. Are we all agreed on that?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 495291,
      "EditedText": "There was a possibility that we might arrange a meeting with the Procedure Committee of the House of Commons. That is not a bad idea, because the committee has views on modern parliamentary procedures, even though it may not be able to put them into practice. We might find it helpful and I understand that the Westminster committee would find it helpful. I wonder whether that can be pursued after the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 495294,
      "EditedText": "In English?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 495300,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that, if we set up a forum in which to meet, we will have an opportunity to take views from both committees.That concludes the business, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 495301,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 14:56."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495217",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Apologies",
      "HeadingID": 13422,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13422,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 495217,
      "EditedText": "There are no apologies. I presume that Mike Russell is coming but that he is late."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495220",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 495220,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495222",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 495222,
      "EditedText": "It was a warning shot, more than anything else. The range was found, so I would not have thought that it was a matter for standing orders at this stage. It might become so if there was a general feeling that the bureau was unable to operate. Other issues may be wrapped up in this, such as what constitutes a statement and how statements should be made, but I would not have thought that that needs to be pursued at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495224",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 495224,
      "EditedText": "That rule comes under speaking?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495226",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 495226,
      "EditedText": "It also relates to chairmanship because, as I understand it, in the briefing for the Presiding Officer, times are allocated in terms of opening and closing debates and then altered according to the number of subsidiary speakers who come forward. That ties in with the question of statements, because it relates to the amount of time given to non-Executive party spokesmen to question a minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495229",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 495229,
      "EditedText": "Does this not relate to the point of order that I made in the debate on the amendment that would have deleted two names from the ministerial list? I argued that an amendment could delete only one name from the list. Iain Smith was the beneficiary, because we did not want to delete his name. The issue will arise only in the formal nomination of ministers, but there was an argument with the Presiding Officer. One should not be able to lodge an amendment that says, \"Delete A, B and C\", because it is difficult to vote on them individually in those circumstances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495230",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 495230,
      "EditedText": "We will suggest that that is not a priority before October and that we leave it on the back burner.We felt that the comment on rule 8.6.1 was not a serious problem for members—we felt that they knew which motion or amendment they were speaking to when they were speaking—and that we did not need to address it with any urgency. The next series of points relate to voting issues: when voting should take place, whether there should be any reruns of votes and how points of order during votes should be handled. We felt that a report on the generic category of voting procedures could encompass all the points, some of which are more substantive than others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495237",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Minister for Parliament (Mr Tom McCabe): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 495237,
      "EditedText": "There are not enough seats, so I will sit here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495241",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 495241,
      "EditedText": "Those points do not seem to belong to the same categories as the ones before. Will they fit back into what you said about the other issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495244",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 495244,
      "EditedText": "My view is that the mover of a motion should have the right to sum up at the end of that debate. Not everyone will agree with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 495248,
      "EditedText": "Your optimism has inspired us through the early weeks, Mike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495249",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 495249,
      "EditedText": "How does the convener suggest we prioritise this matter, which is, and will continue to be, an issue?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495250",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 495250,
      "EditedText": "It can be given high priority because there are not many options—it must be done either one way or another. The Parliament could be invited to decide on it in October, when we look at the adoption of the standing orders. I do not think that any member of staff is going to spend the summer beavering away at options. The choice is pretty stark. I hope that the Parliament will agree that it is not bound to follow Westminster precedent and that it is reasonable that those who have moved the motion should conclude the debate. That will be a decision for the members of the Parliament and there may well be political considerations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 495253,
      "EditedText": "When is the next Opposition day?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 495254,
      "EditedText": "It is up to the Conservatives—it is their turn next. I think that they are talking about early September to mid-September. Given that we will need a week when we get back, I suppose it will be in the second or third week of September at the earliest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 495257,
      "EditedText": "You are welcome to chip in with your views on any of those points, Mr McCabe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 495261,
      "EditedText": "It is breaking down already."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 495268,
      "EditedText": "Some of them may be ready very quickly. The aim is to have them ready for the meeting that we will hold in early September. If they are available in advance of that, they can be posted on e-mail, as the papers for this committee were. Interruption. The clerks anticipate giving us a single set of papers, which will consider all the issues, towards the end of the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 495274,
      "EditedText": "Can we make a decision for this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 495276,
      "EditedText": "We can tell the other committees that we have given our clerk, John Patterson, a voice and wait to see whether they let the other clerks have one."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 495277,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to the end of paper PR/99/2/1. Paper PR/99/2/2 is simply for clarification and sets out the order in which we should approach our work. We need to make it clearer than we did at the previous meeting that, in proposing the adoption of standing orders in the autumn to allow us to proceed, the intention was not to make only minor amendments. Today we have tried to suggest that big changes may have to be considered on substantive matters relating to the conduct of debates. We should, therefore, pick out what we regard as the most urgent issues. Other issues are doubtless important, but they do not have the same urgency. In a sense, the good reputation and name of the Parliament depends on our sorting out issues such as parliamentary questions and ensuring that people have the opportunity of adequate debate. Those are the priorities that we have picked out. Paper PR/99/2/2 notes that further necessary changes will become apparent \"in the light of Parliamentary experience\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 495278,
      "EditedText": "Does the convener wish to pursue point 1.4 of the paper, which suggests that the people who wrote the standing orders should be allowed to explain their decisions, so that they are not found guilty in their absence, so to speak?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 495287,
      "EditedText": "Are we all agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Work Tasks",
      "HeadingID": 13425,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ID": 13425,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 495288,
      "EditedText": "Paper PR/99/2/3 is simply a note of the tasks that we identified last week. Obviously, the priority is to consider the most difficult aspects of standing orders; everything else will be programmed in thereafter. At this stage there is no point in trying to prioritise the rest of the programme; first, we need to get on with examining standing orders. We can consider the remaining items in the light of the decisions that have been made in that regard. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 495292,
      "EditedText": "That is a perfectly fair point. Given the fact that both Parliaments will soon be in recess, it is likely to be some time before a meeting can take place, but I am sure that it would be a useful exercise that everyone would welcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 495297,
      "EditedText": "The relevant committee at Westminster is the Select Committee on Modernisation of the House of Commons."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 495299,
      "EditedText": "We should speak to the modernisation committee. As there are differences of opinion, perhaps we should talk to both the radical and conservative wings of that committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495216",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 13421,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13421,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Murray Tosh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 495216,
      "EditedText": "It has just turned 2.15 pm, so I think that we will start. It appears that I have to read out the procedure for a fire action notice. I think that we will take this as read at subsequent meetings—if we are allowed to. If we find a fire when we are in the building, I am told that we should operate the nearest alarm or speak to a member of staff—presumably about the fire. On hearing the fire alarm, which is a ringing bell—I do not know whether there is a vibrating alternative; please do not minute that—we leave the committee room by the door. We are then to make our way out of the building, following the green running person fire evacuation signs. The green running person is from the \"X-Files\", I believe. The chamber attendants will assist the evacuation. We all know that we should get out as quickly as possible; the more serious point is that we should go to the fire assembly point, which is in Parliament Square east. Do not stop to collect personal belongings, do not re-enter the building and do not use the lifts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495219",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13424,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 495219,
      "EditedText": "That takes us to paper PR/99/2/1 on standing orders issues to date. The report details what was done, following the initial meeting last week, to invite comments from officials and members. It makes the point that the time for that was limited, and it accepts that further points and representations will inevitably be made. This was intended not to be a closed procedure, but to establish an initial profile of points. The substantive business is in the annex, which contains three pages of issues that have arisen. Members should also have received, either with the agenda or subsequently, papers from Michael Russell MSP and Phil Gallie MSP. There is also a letter from Lord James Douglas-Hamilton MSP, which makes some points on behalf of the Conservative group. Those have been reflected in the annex—we think that all the points have been picked up there. The clerk and I spent about an hour this morning going through those points, and we are keen that we do not simply replicate that discussion. I thought that it would be helpful if I rattled through the annex and the committee indicated what it thought. The annex is designed not to make any substantive decisions but to help us to identify priorities for options that will be brought to us later. We felt that we could identify a number of headings, which would allow prioritisation of work, and that the conduct of debates and all the points  on speaking—times, interventions and notification—could be looked at as a set of generic issues, as that is how we have experienced them.We felt that a series of points on voting could be looked at together. Those points include the time given, the mechanical systems, when the vote should take place and the feedback—or lack of it—on whether one had voted. We felt that it was not clear whether some issues of timetabling and notice—for example, what is in the bulletin and when the bulletin should appear—should be specified as standing orders issues. Those are perhaps procedural matters that should not be overspecific, but officials should look at that aspect of the business and report back to us about how we could streamline it. Question time seems, from what we have read in the press, to be a matter of concern to members, ministers and the Presiding Officer. We felt that the issue should be examined. We need a more sharply focused questioning session that is meaningful to all the participants. We felt that there was an issue about chairmanship. That is a delicate area because chairmanship is a separate yet related issue. The presiding officers have powers and an important relationship to the Parliament. It is important that we find out how they think that meetings can be sharpened up. They may want to look at issues such as consistency and clarity. We may then reach agreement on which matters should be written into the standing orders and on which matters they should be consistent and give guidance. Those are the main priorities that we identified. Would it help if I went through each one in turn so that we can decide which ones should be put on the back burner?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495228",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 495228,
      "EditedText": "Can we have some clarification about what the clerks were saying?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495231",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 495231,
      "EditedText": "On the question of having decision times at different times of the day, there is already provision in the standing orders for decision time to be moved on a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau. There have, however, been complaints; for example, some of the evening newspaper editors said that it was unreasonable that they could not report the result of the debate on Holyrood because the decision did not take place until 5 pm. Of all these questions, that is one of the most urgent. Some debates will last half the morning, after which members will leave the chamber and not come back until 5 pm. That is worth debating."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495233",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 495233,
      "EditedText": "I thought that you were trying to prioritise some of the issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495234",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 495234,
      "EditedText": "Yes, and we should, as a priority, look at the whole issue of voting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495238",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 495238,
      "EditedText": "You are welcome to do so should you wish to. Do you require papers?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495239",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 495239,
      "EditedText": "No, I have them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495240",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 495240,
      "EditedText": "The press, the public, the politicians, the Presiding Officer and, apparently, the First Minister have all identified questions as a difficult area that has been exposed by the early workings of the Parliament. This is a priority issue that we should address at the earliest opportunity.We felt that the matters raised by the editor of the official report on rules 16.2.1 and 16.2.3 were not necessarily urgent.Clearly, many committee issues will arise as committees sit. We will be much clearer about how committees work and should work when we have had more experience of them. We felt that there could be a problem with rule 9.21. We are not clear what might crop up as an emergency bill, but we agreed this morning that the Parliament would be rather embarrassed if it had to deal with an emergency bill and found that its procedures were not up to it. That should be looked at fairly urgently after the recess.The general issues in the briefing paper do not refer to specific details of the standing orders. The Presiding Officer and his deputies could be asked to define absolutely and clearly the point about interventions; that need not be included in standing orders. The standing orders can, however, be examined in the context of issues relating to debating and speaking. Members may not agree with that opinion. The clerk and I thought that it would be difficult to start making absolute specifications in the standing orders. We should start the process of examining the standing orders and that is what we are doing.We felt that the questions about the need for definitive chamber procedures and the discretion allowed to the Presiding Officer could be referred to the Presiding Officer. At the moment, we are unclear how tightly we want chamber procedures to be defined in standing orders. This is an evolutionary process and there are issues that we would want the chamber to deal with as they arise. Some of the points in the briefing paper should perhaps be dealt with by the Presiding Officer rather than by the Procedures Committee, but to what extent that is the case may not become clear until more time has elapsed. We have not had the opportunity to fully test—there is a split infinitive—the standing orders, but that is what this process is for.Some voting issues are worth examining, such as the clarity of announcements on voting times and—as there have been some criticisms of the equipment—the method of voting. It would be useful to discuss these issues with people who are familiar with the equipment and the ways in which it might be adapted to give feedback—for example, to tell the member whether his or her vote has been recorded. Our system is much tougher to run than the Westminster system, in which members get to follow their mates through a lobby for 15 minutes, which is not too hard. We have to make snap decisions here. A number of sources have asked whether it would be practical to have a display board.There are speaking issues and the question of the running order. There is the question whether there should be notice of who will speak. Westminster would say no, but many of us have experience of speaking in forums in which the running order is known two or three speakers in advance, which gives time for preparation. Members may like to express a view on that.Whether the standing orders or the Presiding Officer should regulate interventions remains to be seen. We have all heard very long interventions that turn out to be speeches. That is not fair to the member who has given way and it must be dealt with in one way or another.The issue about papers for discussion in committee is a separate item on our agenda. Concern has been raised about the efficacy of the voting system; we have touched on that.The clerk and I felt that it was up to the Presiding Officer, or whichever of his deputies was holding the floor, whether interventions should be taken during summing up. We were not convinced that there should be a new rule, but that must be looked at in the overall context of debates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495243",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 495243,
      "EditedText": "I would have thought that it was a question for debate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495245",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 495245,
      "EditedText": "That is precisely the point. That was view of the SNP as the Opposition party that lodged the first motion that was opposed—by Mr McCabe, in fact. The Presiding Officer ruled that, for that first occasion, the Westminster model would be followed. He said specifically that that was not a precedent and that the Procedures Committee should consider the matter. I think that he is expecting a recommendation from us on that. There are another 14 Opposition days before 6 May 2000—the next one will be a Conservative day some time in early September—so we need to have a view on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495246",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
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      "ID": 13424,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 495246,
      "EditedText": "All I am saying is that the Procedures Committee can give its views and make recommendations, but it will be up to the Parliament to accept or reject them. Much of what we have been through in the summary may lend itself to consensual decisions. I suspect that this matter, however, will be a political decision. The committee is entitled to make a recommendation, but members will presumably vote on the matter differently from the way in which they would vote on methods of voting, which is a more practical question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495247",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 495247,
      "EditedText": "I am optimistic that there will be consensus. I am sure we can achieve that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 495252,
      "EditedText": "The specific reason that the Presiding Officer referred the matter to this committee was that there was nothing in the standing orders about it. I would have thought that the fact that he referred it indicates that he may be looking for advice from the Procedures Committee before he makes another ruling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 495255,
      "EditedText": "The clerk and I had envisaged calling a committee meeting for 7 or 8 September. As we have flagged up the issue, it might be reasonable for us to discuss it at that meeting and see whether consensus exists. We could—perhaps through some resolution of the chamber—operate on that basis pending the adoption of standing orders later in the year. That would give everyone time to think through how they want to play it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 495256,
      "EditedText": "I am a wee bit concerned about cherry- picking some areas; it could be argued that other areas could be dealt with quickly because somebody else on the committee might be highly motivated about them. We will see the context of this issue in the report that we receive from the officers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2228E151P202C495258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McCabe, Tom",
      "ID": 2228,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McCabe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 495258,
      "EditedText": "I think that there is a good deal of consensus on this. The Conservative group—and certainly its representative on the Parliamentary Bureau—is, I think, minded to follow the view of the Executive, so there is much consensus."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13424,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 495265,
      "EditedText": "I am more interested in when we will receive the papers. That is what I am trying to establish."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ID": 13424,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 495271,
      "EditedText": "That is an important issue. Having sat through two sets of committee meetings, I believe that the practice looks silly and is quite unnecessary. This is not what happens at meetings of the Parliamentary Bureau, where clerks are quite free to speak. We should seek an early decision on that issue, or make one here today. I am sure that we are allowed to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13424,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 495273,
      "EditedText": "I think that we can decide for this committee. We do not want to lay down a procedure for other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson (The Committee Clerk): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 495279,
      "EditedText": "That would be one of the intentions of oral advice. The committee might want to invite the interim clerk or the director of clerking to appear before it to explain various points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0813485+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
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      "ID": 13424,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 495282,
      "EditedText": "We should remember that the group was making recommendations on paper, whereas we are working in real life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13424,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 495284,
      "EditedText": "To subject the group to such scrutiny would be inappropriate. It may say that we were quite right to make changes, because what it thought was a good idea at the time has turned out differently in practice."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Standing Orders",
      "HeadingID": 13424,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13424,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 495286,
      "EditedText": "That is exactly what I propose. The intention behind the report is, to some extent, indivisible and centres on the group's view of the Parliament—a view that we, to a greater or lesser degree, all share. If we are questioning a procedure that we think does not work, it may be useful to discuss with the group its intention, because, with a little imagination, we may find another way of doing things that honestly reflects that. That is the spirit in which I suggest this."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 495290,
      "EditedText": "Is there any other business? I have already informed members of the meeting with the Presiding Officer that has been arranged for tomorrow. That is all, unless a member wishes to raise something as a matter of urgency."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 495293,
      "EditedText": "At the risk of creating a boring precedent as far as materials are concerned, the standing orders of the European Parliament and other modern Parliaments may have lessons for us. I am sure that the clerk sleeps with them at night and reads them regularly, but it would be useful for us to have sight of them so that we could decide on their relevance. Could we obtain copies both of the European Parliament's standing orders—which have changed since I saw them—and of the standing orders of any other Parliaments that might be relevant?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 495295,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful. I can just about get by in French, but some of the finer languages, such as Finnish, would defeat me entirely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 495296,
      "EditedText": "I will arrange it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2815
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Attendance",
      "HeadingID": 13426,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ID": 13426,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "John Patterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 495298,
      "EditedText": "There are separate committees for modernisation and procedure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0969708+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 11177,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11177,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 417252,
      "EditedText": "Like Gordon Jackson, I was in, and will shortly cease, practice as a civil practitioner. I may sometimes be involved in doing things that involve civil legal aid, so I have a financial interest in our decisions about the workings of the civil legal aid system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 11177,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11177,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 417253,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Christine. The committee is obviously well packed with expertise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 11177,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11177,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 417255,
      "EditedText": "Given your black isle interest, the bill on feus may well be of interest to you, but who knows."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 11177,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11177,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 417260,
      "EditedText": "I was formerly a justice of the peace and had an interest in such activities. I am no longer eligible to sit on the bench because I represent an area where my commission was."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 11177,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11177,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 417261,
      "EditedText": "Those experiences will still be of value. Does anybody else have any interests to declare? I think that it is fair to say that the rest of us simply have a great interest in justice and home affairs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 417262,
      "EditedText": "At this point I am going to be prised out of the chair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
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      "ID": 11178,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 417263,
      "EditedText": "Will Mr Gallie accept a point of order?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 11178,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 417264,
      "EditedText": "Yes, certainly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 11178,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 417266,
      "EditedText": "Every one of us has political responsibilities. We have all been nominated and selected under—let us say—political banners. We all have a right to speak out on party issues as and when we feel it appropriate. There is nothing in the standing orders to stop members playing special roles in their parties and carrying out a full committee work load. There is no reason to rule out any member of the committee. Nothing Roseanna said this morning rules her out of being elected convener. She made those comments as an SNP spokesman and, to judge from what Gordon said, they did not preclude her speaking as the convener of this committee.It has been established that someone from the Scottish National party be nominated to chair this committee. Can I have a nomination for convener, please?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 417270,
      "EditedText": "Roseanna Cunningham was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 417272,
      "EditedText": "Members will have received the good briefing notes from the clerks. I hope that everyone has had the opportunity to read through them—perhaps everyone is appalled and wishes they had chosen a different committee. Members will appreciate that this committee has a wide remit and that the work load will be very heavy. Members have undoubtedly begun to ascertain interest from outside organisations, who have their own agendas and manifestos. We will perhaps wish to discuss those in the future. Members will be aware that, of the eight bills that have been proposed by the Executive in this first year, three will be dealt with by this committee. That will make our work different from that of most other committees: we will deal directly with legislation. A lot of our work in the first year will be taken up with that. I propose that we have a discussion in two parts today. In the first, I ask members to confine themselves to the issues that we know will come up. An abolition of feudal tenure bill is likely to be introduced in early September—as soon as we return from the recess—and the incapable adults bill will be introduced at the same time. The consultation paper for the land reform bill will be published during the recess and the draft bill is expected by the end of the year, so we will get some breathing space between the initial two bills and the third bill—but not much. The response to the Macpherson inquiry report into the Stephen Lawrence case is likely to be published during the recess, too, and I understand that  there are plans for it to be sent directly to this committee for comment. That means September—along with the two bills that we are expecting. An Executive consultation paper on freedom of information is expected in the autumn, and the draft bill is to be published early next year. The committee is expected to deal with that both at the consultation stage and at the bill stage. Those are the matters that we know about. I ask that, for this part of the discussion, we confine our comments to those areas. It is important at this stage that individual members get the opportunity to let the clerks know what kind of written and oral briefings they require for the next few months, to help them with the issues that we will be landed with very soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 417286,
      "EditedText": "We are drifting into the second part of this discussion without finishing the first. While I know that it is difficult to avoid that, I would like us to talk about the more fixed programme. We should finalise that and get an indication from members about the areas on which they feel they need more specialised briefing. The briefing does not have to be face to face—it can be written. Members are all capable of reading and absorbing briefings. I will run through the list again: the abolition of feudal tenure bill, the incapable adults bill, the land reform bill, which has a slightly longer time scale, the Executive response to the Macpherson report on the Stephen Lawrence case, which will come in September, and the consultation paper on freedom of information. Those are the issues that are being, in a sense, thrust upon us. In those areas, are there specific issues on which members feel strongly that they need briefing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417288",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 417288,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful if the clerks could draw up a list of organisations that could advise us on each of the bills that we know is to be passed to us. Perhaps in association with Roseanna, we could pick four or five organisations and individuals to brief the committee. We could proceed from there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 417291,
      "EditedText": "We are all in the same boat. The difficulty is that, if we wait until September, we will be in an even worse situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 417293,
      "EditedText": "Are you talking about briefings on feudal tenure, or much wider briefings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417301",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 417301,
      "EditedText": "I back that up, Roseanna. I recognise that Westminster is a dirty word here, but the select committee process was good at teasing out information from various interested organisations, along the lines of Trish's suggestion. I suggest that, if we made it known publicly— through the clerks—that we require information and views on the feudal tenure bill and the incapable adults bill, we would get a raft of information from many people with useful things to say. If we made that announcement now, we could probably secure all those contributions by the end of July at the latest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 417302,
      "EditedText": "We could probably do that by the end of the week, knowing some of those organisations.We have gone as far as we can with discussion of the committee's specific remit. Let us now consider some of the wider aspects of the remit; some of the things that the committee might want to examine. I ask members to bear it in mind that we will not have an endless opportunity to do so because of our work load. Members will know, from listening to the radio this morning, that I have strong views on domestic violence. I hope that the committee will want to consider issues connected with domestic violence, which is an area where we could do quite a lot. All members will have their own areas of interest. This is their opportunity to indicate the directions in which they would like the committee to go within its wider remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 417304,
      "EditedText": "I am conscious that we have recently signed up to additional human rights legislation through Europe. That will have a massive impact on the Scottish legal system. Gordon and Christine probably have much greater knowledge of this area than I do, but there seem to be a couple of areas in which there will be a direct effect. I understand that one of the problems for the Scottish police service is that, under the present questioning and charging procedures, police officers must question and charge suspects within six hours, during which period the individual has the right to have access to a solicitor. South of the border, the police have 72 hours for that process. That could place an added burden on the police in Scotland, which we should consider. It could have a practical effect on the way in which our justice system is served.The other matter that I would like the committee to examine is past legislation—the intermediate diets that have been set up. I get the impression that all that was hoped of those diets has not come to fruition. It would be worth while for us to look into that, to discover whether measures need to be taken to improve the court procedures and the efficiency of everyone who is involved, from witnesses and police to clerks and those who sit on the benches."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 417305,
      "EditedText": "That makes two votes for procedures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C417308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 417308,
      "EditedText": "Like Phil, I would be interested in examining court procedures, although other people might think that that was very boring. I speak from experience when I say that the way in which things are organised often dissuades people from appearing again as witnesses. The process costs those people money and they feel that they are left hanging around without being told what is happening. There is also the great cost to local government and the public purse of professional witnesses such as police officers, the fire service and local government officials. The system must be improved, because it is not cost-effective and it dissuades people from coming forward as witnesses because they feel that they are not valued even though it takes up a lot of their time. I wrote to the minister about the matter some time ago, and I met the procurator fiscal in Dundee to discuss it, but I did not get far with my inquiries. I hope that the committee will get further than I did."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417310",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 2377
    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 417310,
      "EditedText": "That is what this process is about. It will be easier to proceed if we can identify the areas where several members of the committee want to take things forward. For example, we must be careful about discussing the issue of the police. Although it is a good topic to discuss, we know that a consultation document will come before the committee at some time, and it might be appropriate to leave our discussion on the matter until then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2207E94P262C417311",
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    },
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    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Barrie, Scott",
      "ID": 2207,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dunfermline West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 417311,
      "EditedText": "We must be careful that we do not come up with a big shopping list, as Gordon Jackson said, which is based on the hobby-horses that people want to promote. You are quite right in saying that we must get consensus on the issues—or the issue—on which most members agree.The issue that I want to raise has been discussed extensively in the media during the past few months: legal aid and access to the civil justice system. We should examine that, as it is one of the foundations of the justice system. I hope that we will discuss that subject in the next few months."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417317",
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    },
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      "ID": 143
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 417317,
      "EditedText": "Will everyone want to make a final point?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417319",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
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      "EditedText": "That would be useful. I would like to bring the discussion to a close. Some of the matters that we have discussed can be dealt with by progressing some specific issues and, even in the shorter term, we can achieve something concrete. We must not forget, however, that the committee will run for the four years of the Parliament. Some other issues, such as procedural issues, will have to be dealt with over a longer period. There is nothing wrong with beginning to do some work in those areas, but we must not expect to be able to bring it to a close within a month, two months or three months, as we might be able to do in other areas.During the recess, we must work our way towards prioritising the topics that we want to deal with, by talking informally to one another and in briefing sessions, as well as in any formal meetings that we might have. We have a fairly clear idea of some of the areas that are of major interest. Perhaps, during the summer, we can get more specific briefings on those areas, to give us guidance as to what can be achieved easily and what will take much longer. That will give us a better idea of how to plan meetings.Before we close, we should return to the matter of possible invitations. I suggest that we extend an invitation to the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice and to the Lord Advocate to meet the committee when we come back at the end of the recess. A meeting with them would help to clarify some of the issues that are already on the table. Obviously it will have to be fitted into people's schedules, but are members happy for us to issue an early invitation to both of them? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 417324,
      "EditedText": "Thank you all very much. I also thank the clerks for their work in preparation for the meeting. I look forward to speaking to most of you and to meeting you again informally—and perhaps formally—during the summer. We can all look forward to the work that the committee has to do from September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417325",
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:51."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417285",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 417285,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is very important that we are not simply a scrutinising committee, but that we initiate legislation. It is exciting that this committee can legislate on a number of areas that will affect ordinary people. We all have our pet lists, but I am sure that we can reach consensus on some areas, such as family law or domestic violence, in respect of which measures could be introduced that would really change the lot of many people in Scotland.  That would show that the Parliament is delivering in a very simple but obvious manner. It is terribly important that we do not end up just scrutinising, editing and revising, but rather that we suggest powerful but ordinary measures. We must keep that balance clear from the start."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C417247",
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    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 11176,
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      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 12:00"
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417249",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
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      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 417249,
      "EditedText": "We must commence with a declaration of interests. I note that every member is here and that there is no need for apologies. Each of us has signed on and has made a submission. If there are any points that individuals would like to make with respect to this committee, this is the time to do so. In the future, members may find that there is still a need to declare an interest, but today's is a more general declaration."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417250",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 11177,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 417250,
      "EditedText": "I have a financial interest in the criminal justice system and, in particular, the workings of the Scottish Legal Aid Board. I have made a small amount of money, from time to time, out of the legal aid system. I imagine that this committee will sometimes consider the board, its operation and how its policies operate. I will inevitably and for some time—even without working—have an interest in such deliberations."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417258",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11177,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 417258,
      "EditedText": "I am sorry, but please speak up. Age has its drawbacks and bad hearing is one of them."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417271",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Roseanna Cunningham): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 417271,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I give a big welcome to all members of this committee—even to Gordon Jackson. I will, from time to time, be heard on the radio in my capacity as shadow justice spokesperson. I hope that what I say will be widely agreed by other parties: it is not my perception that this committee will always be heavily party political. We are dealing with justice matters and it has not been my impression—except in a few cases—that there are strongly drawn party lines. This is an area of the Government's work in which we ought to be able to reach a committee decision a little more easily than might be possible in other areas."
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 417275,
      "EditedText": "I hope that this committee will, by and large, be non-contentious. We will not agree on everything, but there will be a lot of common ground. I seek a little guidance from you, convener, or from the clerk, on our work load. I am not familiar with committees at all: they are not animals that I have had much to do with in my previous existence. Like many people, I have bees in my bonnet and lots of pet projects. I could make a list of 40 things that I would like this committee to deal with. Is our work load so heavy that we will have no time to initiate anything ourselves? Will we consider so much work done in other committees and in the Parliament that we will not be able to do anything off our own bat?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417278",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11179,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 417278,
      "EditedText": "I want to associate myself with Phil's comments on our work load and on how important it is that, come September, we hit the ground running. There seems to be a very strong case for this committee meeting formally sometime during the recess. We should also discuss who we wish to invite as advisers and who we would like to brief us. The briefing process should certainly be under way before we return in September."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 417279,
      "EditedText": "I want to discuss the issue of invitations later in the meeting. There is the opportunity for both formal and informal briefings over the summer. The Scottish Office home department has already indicated its willingness to conduct briefings on its work and, presumably, on that of this committee, during the summer. The difficulty during the summer is getting people together at the same time. It would be difficult to fix that today, but it might be useful to proceed on the basis that, because some briefings are informal, everyone's attendance will not be required or expected. We should perhaps consider in principle fixing one formal meeting of this committee over the summer recess. To do that, we would have to accept that we will have to hand to the clerks our various commitment dates for the summer recess, so that they can draw up some kind of appropriate timetabling of summer business. Are members happy enough to take a decision in principle to do that, which would allow the clerks to come back with proposals on when some of those informal briefings might take place and when a summer meeting might take place? The clerks will rely on members providing information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 417280,
      "EditedText": "Other committees are meeting over the summer. I know that the European Committee is. I have to travel down from Inverness, so it would be very helpful for me, for example,  if committees could meet on the same day in the summer. Perhaps that could be taken into consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 417281,
      "EditedText": "Can you be a wee bit clearer about what you have in mind by informal briefings?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 417283,
      "EditedText": "Would that be a briefing on the content of the bills, or on legal issues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C417287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
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      "ID": 11179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 417287,
      "EditedText": "I need a briefing on feudal tenure. I have had some passing experience of some of the terms—terms of art, I suppose—in the existing legislation, but I do not think that I would be able to comment in detail without a specific briefing. It will be a highly technical bill and I will need considerable assistance, otherwise I will not know what I am doing with some of the terms and conditions in existing legislation. I am sure that that is true for other lay members of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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      "ID": 11179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 417289,
      "EditedText": "The idea of compiling a list of organisations with the strongest input into specific legislation as a first effort is quite good. However, the slight difficulty with that suggestion is that we would be talking about a large number of meetings over the summer recess, which might be more difficult to organise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 417294,
      "EditedText": "I am talking about everything, really. However, we should prioritise the bills that will come up in September, such as feudal tenure, which is connected to land reform, and incapable adults."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 417295,
      "EditedText": "The committee could have either an informal, face-to-face briefing from the Scottish Office, or written information along the lines that you suggest. I do not perceive there to be any difficulty about that. We will ensure that we communicate that to the Scottish Office in order to get information sent out as early as possible during the summer, so that members have it for as long as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 417296,
      "EditedText": "I suggested that organisations should provide written briefings. We are fortunate that the subject areas of the bills that will come before us are not new. Many organisations in Scotland have already done much work on land reform, feudal tenure and incapable adults, and have lobbied on those issues for a long time. There is a wealth of knowledge out there and we should ask those organisations to provide us with briefing papers, so that we can read the available material before we meet formally in September to consider the bills. My point was that that information is already available, and it is a question of targeting the right organisations and getting that information in, which would provide the background material that all members of the committee need."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 417298,
      "EditedText": "Without getting into a huge row with the clerks, we do not want the committee to be driven entirely by the clerks, either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 417300,
      "EditedText": "I will draw this part of the discussion together. I suggest that, particularly on the feudal tenure and incapable adults bills, we could all do with a list of organisations, as Trish Marwick was saying, and all the written briefings that are undoubtedly already available—in fact, some might be lurking in filing cabinets as we speak. We should do that at the earliest opportunity, before we widen our interest to take in some of the other areas. I am not suggesting that those should be our only briefings, but they should be the first, as those are the bills that we will have to deal with first. Are members happy with that suggestion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C417303",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 417303,
      "EditedText": "As Mr Jackson said, we could probably produce endless lists, but there are two areas that I would like to examine. The first is the operation of the small claims court, particularly in relation to small civil claims. There should be a more effective method of processing such claims. The second is the operation of the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board. Those are two areas of interest to me, and, although I appreciate that we will not be able to allocate time to them now, I would like the committee to address them in detail over the four years of this Parliament. In year two there might be more scope for that, because fewer bills will come before us. The average citizen comes into contact with the law through small claims cases, and that contact is often thoroughly unsatisfactory for a variety of reasons. It would be very valuable if we could do something to smooth the process and to make it more effective."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 11179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 417309,
      "EditedText": "Picking two subjects of interest is simple. I would love to examine the way in which the police service is delivered, but that is a huge issue. The way in which we deal with mentally disordered offenders at every level also interests me a lot. I could happily talk about almost everything that has been mentioned. It is known that I have a particular bee in my bonnet about the issue of murder under diminished responsibility, and that is an issue about which I could talk for ever. To pick up on something that Christine said, I wonder whether we should try to identify matters on which we can introduce legislation. We can choose to examine hugely contentious and complicated subjects such as the way in which the police service is delivered, which would make for a fascinating talking shop, or we can try to identify subjects on which we might share common ground. Those subjects might be important to people without being fantastically contentious.We could then initiate legislation with the very real possibility of its being enacted. That way, we would make a difference. Perhaps we should have small targets—and I say that with hesitation—which are things that we could achieve, rather than huge, fascinating topics on which we cannot deliver."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 11179,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 417313,
      "EditedText": "I would welcome the opportunity to contribute to the discussions on all the subjects that have been mentioned, but I want to mention another topic that deserves examination. Could we consider the downgrading of cases in courts? That has been commented on by many people, not least myself. People take exception to cases not being pursued as they ought to have been; under other circumstances, they would have had the full remit of the law at their disposal. Society expects to see justice done, and the downgrading of cases does not address people's needs. We ought to look at that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 11179,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 417315,
      "EditedText": "I want to put down a marker, without being contentious, about something that Pauline mentioned. I consider every issue that has been mentioned in the committee to be a women's issue as well as a man's issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C417318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 11179,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 417318,
      "EditedText": "The Equal Opportunities Committee will probably ask, towards the end of the recess, for a briefing from the Commission for Racial Equality. If you wish, I could ask the clerk to that committee to issue an invitation to members of this committee too, so that we can get some background information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 11179,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 417320,
      "EditedText": "Are there any final remarks?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 11179,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 417322,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point—sub-committees are certainly an option. Resources, however, might be a difficulty. The committee is already likely to have to meet more often than once a fortnight, which is envisaged in the original timetable—I do not see how we can possibly keep to that, given our work load. Sub-committees could have resource implications, as they would need to be clerked and fitted into a schedule; meeting rooms would have to be arranged. However, we should not close our faces against the idea at this stage, as there might be an absolute need for sub-committees from time to time. We should at least leave the option open, so that we can have them if need be. Are there any final comments before we bring this first meeting to a close?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417248",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Justice and Home Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 11176,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 11176,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 417248,
      "EditedText": "Good afternoon. This is the first meeting of the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. I trust that committee members are all as excited as I am about this committee and I am sure that we will find that we all get to know one another very well. I am chairing this part of the meeting. Believe it or not—I find it hard to believe—I am the oldest member of the committee. Who says agism does not have its advantages—positive discrimination puts me in the chair for the first few minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8018385+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417251",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 11177,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11177,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 417251,
      "EditedText": "The expertise and knowledge gained from those interests will be of great value to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 11177,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11177,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 417254,
      "EditedText": "I have several different sorts of interest to declare. I am an unpaid director of Ross-shire Womens Aid; domestic violence is likely to come up in this committee. I also represent Ross-shire Womens Aid on the Highland domestic abuse forum. In case it is of any relevance, I am an unpaid director of a company called Barmekin Limited that owns and rents two cottages in the black isle. What my husband does is relevant. He is on the council of the Law Society of Scotland, the parliamentary liaison committee for the Law Society and the law reform committee. He is likely to be liaising with us, so I think that that is relevant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 11177,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 11177,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 417256,
      "EditedText": "I am a member of the Faculty of Advocates. I have not practised for the past four years so my pecuniary interest in legal aid and aspects of the law has ceased. My professional interest continues as my membership of the faculty continues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C417257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 11177,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11177,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 417257,
      "EditedText": "In the context of land reform—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C417259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 11177,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 11177,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 417259,
      "EditedText": "In the context of land reform, I should declare that I am a River Tweed commissioner and that I obtain a small honorarium from Kelso Angling Association—that might be relevant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 11178,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 11178,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 417265,
      "EditedText": "I am a little concerned about something that Roseanna did this morning. She gave an interview on \"Good Morning Scotland\", a Radio Scotland programme, that dealt with the affairs of this committee. My transcript may be wrong, but the interview began with a statement that the Scottish National party is to campaign for a change in the law to protect women from stalkers. The shadow justice minister then described the change that she wants. To me, that seems an inappropriate attempt to set an agenda for this committee and to pre-empt our decision about what we will consider. I am assuming that Roseanna is likely to be proposed as the convener of this committee. Is it appropriate for someone who is pre-empting the decisions of this committee to take that post? More vital, is it appropriate for any party spokesperson to become a convener of a committee, given that the role of the convener is to be impartial?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 11178,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 11178,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 417267,
      "EditedText": "I nominate Roseanna Cunningham."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8174595+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 11178,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 11178,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 417269,
      "EditedText": "I have a nominator and seconder. Is anyone otherwise minded? I reluctantly hand over the chair to Roseanna and wish her well in the task."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C417273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 11179,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kate MacLean (Dundee West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 417273,
      "EditedText": "Committees with different remits can examine matters jointly. At its meeting last week, the Equal Opportunities Committee also expressed the desire to examine the Macpherson report. It would probably be simpler for this committee and the Equal Opportunities Committee to agree to examine it jointly. That would be simpler for the officials who are servicing the committees and for clerks and members. The report falls into both committees' remits."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 11179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 417274,
      "EditedText": "That will be taken on board. Timetabling might be a difficulty, because of this committee's likely heavy work load and the need to meet more often than other committees. It might be awkward, but I am sure that the clerks will wish to consider that possibility to minimise everybody's work load."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
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      "ID": 11179,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Perth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 417276,
      "EditedText": "I would be disappointed if that happened. This Parliament's committee system affords the opportunity for the committees to be creative and to initiate some items. We must not forget that issues will arise over the next year—from week to week and month to month—which it would be wrong for this committee to ignore, but we cannot plan for that now. Our work load will be very heavy, but I want to ensure that we have the opportunity to do at least some of our own work and not just react to work that comes from the Executive. We will have to get into the business of prioritising—there is no doubt about that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2172E41P65C417277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gallie, Phil",
      "ID": 2172,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 417277,
      "EditedText": "Roseanna, you have identified the programme: September looks like being a hell of a month. The Macpherson report could come out before then. It is my understanding that there is no reason under the standing orders why the committee should not meet during the recess. We could perhaps consider having a meeting in August or at a suitable time after the Macpherson report comes out. I recognise that members will have their fortnight's holiday or whatever arranged during the recess. Members' holiday dates will be staggered, so there might be some difficulty getting everyone together at the same time, but a preliminary examination could be worthwhile."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 417282,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Office has extended an invitation to committee members to visit the department for an introductory briefing about its work and how it is organised, and about how we would go about getting factual briefings on specific areas. I think that that would be a useful early exercise for most members of this committee, if not for all."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1863E284P532C417284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Cunningham, Roseanna",
      "ID": 1863,
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 417284,
      "EditedText": "It would be about the operation of the department at the Scottish Office, how it will link into what we do and how we can link into, and use, its expertise in order to get briefings. I do not mean specific briefings on the bills—that is an entirely separate issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 417290,
      "EditedText": "I agree with both of those suggestions as I, too, need that information. My difficulty—it may be shared—is a chicken-and-egg problem. I do not know what I need to know.  If information were given to us, or if someone said, \"There's that bill—and that one, and that one,\" I could come back the next day and say what I needed to know. I know that this is not very helpful, but it is a circular problem. I see other members nodding. Until the information is sent to us, it is hard to identify our ignorance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417292",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 11179,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 417292,
      "EditedText": "I agree with everything that has been said so far. Although it means moving on to the second issue, I will take up Christine's point.  It is important that we get this bit right, to create space for some of the things that we want to put on the agenda. My feeling is that there should be a briefing on where we are now. As a law student, I know quite a bit about land reform and I am interested in the subject. For many people who pay feu duties and who have been caught up in the Brian Hamilton affair and so on, it is an area that could be quite interesting if we make it so. We should not make too many assumptions about what we know. Obviously, some members know more than others do. I am keen to spend the recess doing quite a bit of detailed background reading in order to get my head round the legislative areas. At the beginning, I would rather get away from the legislative process in order to get my head round where we are now. I am in favour of meeting during the recess—taking into account all that you say, convener, about the difficulties. I applaud your introductory remarks and, as there are fewer controversial issues between us, we have to put a little trust in one another. If members are not available, we should allow the committee to go ahead and meet. There should be at least one meeting during the recess but—very soon—a lot of reading material should be sent to us as a starting point, so that we can move forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 417297,
      "EditedText": "We are all prepared to read right through the summer, but is it too much to ask the clerks to give us what they think might be useful? Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417299",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
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      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 417299,
      "EditedText": "It is difficult to identify what we want unless we have something first. Can the clerks, together with—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C417306",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 417306,
      "EditedText": "I am aware that we will have an extremely heavy work load, but if the committee is to work, we must be seen to initiate legislation—and we need time to do that. It is incumbent on us that we drive forward an agenda of our own making, not simply that of the Executive. There are two areas about which I am particularly concerned: domestic violence and charity law.In the case of domestic violence, the law can be tidied up in a number of areas, without requiring lengthy bills. We can make a real difference very quickly for women in Scotland who are suffering. I would like us to examine the areas of the law that could be tidied up without necessitating a great swatch of legislation. I am sure that that would be possible.I did not declare an interest at the start of the committee, but I worked for Shelter prior to my election. Shelter is a charity that helps homeless people in Scotland. To that extent I have a continuing interest in the charity and voluntary sector in Scotland. One of the major problems faced by charities and voluntary organisations in Scotland is that there is no regulatory framework for them: charities are allowed to do whatever they want. Unlike the Charity Commission for England and Wales, which has regulatory powers of investigation, the equivalent office in Scotland is small and has virtually no powers. Anybody in Scotland can set up a charity with very little investigation even when things go wrong. That should not happen. We should consider how charities and the voluntary sector work in Scotland, as they are responsible for collecting an awful lot of money. We must ensure that people who give money in good faith are protected, because that is not the case at the moment. We would do a great service to the voluntary and charitable sector in Scotland if we could initiate legislation on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C417307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 417307,
      "EditedText": "I endorse what Tricia said about domestic violence: improvements could be made very easily to help women in that situation. The Scottish Office has a work plan that we can look at. I am interested in the related matter of sentencing policies in the case of abuse victims who are convicted of murder. I am interested in the questions of what murder is, what sentencing policy should be in place, and whether we are now out of line in defining murder as a premeditated act without taking into account the experience of someone who has been abused over a long term. Diminished responsibility is also an area of the law that needs to be examined."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1857E136P222C417314",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
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    },
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      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeill, Pauline",
      "ID": 1857,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Kelvin"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Pauline McNeill: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 417314,
      "EditedText": "As this is our first meeting and everyone else is declaring what they are interested in, I see no harm in doing the same. We need to decide, as Gordon Jackson said, what we can achieve, what would be useful and what people think the committee could work on which will be of use to a large section of the population.I must declare my interest—a non-technical one—in tackling some women's issues in the committee. I would like to see a women's dimension to our work because it is important, in terms of women's perceptions of the Scottish Parliament, that we deal with an issue that affects women. I know that several members are interested in the issue of violence against women, so that may be a good place to start.Lyndsay McIntosh mentioned the courts system. I have anecdotal evidence of how the courts can fail people, so it might be useful to look at that issue, at least in the preliminary stages, to see how the courts are operating and how we can secure access to justice.Christine Grahame mentioned civil legal aid. We must not forget that we are dealing with civil law and we must strike a balance in the committee between dealing with civil justice and criminal justice. Sentencing policy is an interesting area, and a minefield. We must also consider young people, prisons and sentencing policy. There will certainly be no shortage of topics for us to discuss, and we must get the balance right and choose a useful and achievable area of work that we can all get down to."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2122E6P19C417316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McIntosh, Mrs Lyndsay",
      "ID": 2122,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs McIntosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 417316,
      "EditedText": "As a final point, and I swear that this is the last thing I shall mention, we ought to consider victim support."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C417321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 417321,
      "EditedText": "I am thinking out loud. Is there a role for sub-committees? We now have a shopping list and we might be able to identify, say, six things which, without much party contention, we would like to process. One way to process things would be to use smaller groups. After all, there are 11 of us and all 11 do not need to examine every single non-contentious topic. If we want to process part of our work in that way, can we do that?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "C417323",
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      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 417323,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:05:28.8330891+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 11178,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 11178,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 417268,
      "EditedText": "I second the nomination."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1756E184P464C417312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2377
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Justice and Home Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 143
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 11179,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ID": 11179,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grahame, Christine",
      "ID": 1756,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Christine Grahame: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 417312,
      "EditedText": "Civil legal aid is one of my hobby-horses because it is becoming a nightmare for practitioners and for the public. That has to be addressed because it is preventing people from getting access to remedies.  One thing that Gordon mentioned—a simple thing—is that the matrimonial interdict falls on divorce and the woman loses the protection of the power of arrest. Sometimes a divorce does not bring an end to dreadful things and they continue for a considerable time afterwards. That is a simple area that we could address. I hope that we will also address the issue of mental health in Scotland. I have found myself in difficulties while representing people with alleged mental disorders. Whether or not they have capacity or whether they have something that could be defined as a mental illness is a difficult area of the law. Quite often, there is injustice to the person in the middle of it all who has been deemed to have some kind of mental illness. I believe that the sheriffs would be sympathetic to our considering the matter, as they find it difficult to deal with people who are brought before a civil court and who, although obviously unwell, are not unwell enough to be sectioned, and need a system for protecting their rights."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:12.0166116+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283810",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 7500,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 7500,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 283810,
      "EditedText": "I give a warm welcome to those attending the first meeting of the Scottish Parliament's Health and Community Care Committee. I especially welcome members of the public who are here representing vital groups. One of our major concerns is that the public should be involved not just by buzz phrases such as social inclusion, but by being present. It should be made clear to the wider public, as well as to the people who are present today, that the committees will receive deputations from the public to ensure that those who are done unto by legislators can make representations directly in Edinburgh. That will be a lot easier than going to Westminster.Today we have representatives from the national health service in Lothian; the occupational health service; the institute for housing, which has very important links with health; Unison; the NHS Confederation; the Royal College of Nursing; the British Medical Association; the Scottish Consumer Council; and the National Pharmaceutical Association, which represents Scottish pharmacists. That is a splendid turnout for our first meeting.This committee is charged with life and death matters—nothing is more important than the health of Scotland. It is also responsible for the welfare of the staff of the NHS and related services, including social work. We have to ensure that they get fair play.I am convening the committee only because it has been discovered that I am the oldest member. I think people should always give their age in dog years; that is much better for people's mental welfare. I will hand over shortly to the real convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.2891677+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C283812",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 7501,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7501,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 283812,
      "EditedText": "I am a member of the public sector union, Unison. I receive no financial gain from that role, but I want my membership to be noted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.2891677+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283814",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 7501,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7501,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 283814,
      "EditedText": "Gosh, you are busy. We are quite stunned by such industry."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.2891677+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C283815",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 7501,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7501,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 283815,
      "EditedText": "That is a hard act to follow. I am a simple, ordinary member of Unison. Like Margaret, I would like my membership registered, although I receive no pay for it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.2891677+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283817",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 7502,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ID": 7502,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 283817,
      "EditedText": "We now move to the most important part of today's business, which is the election of the convener. As people might be aware, in the interests of fairness, it has been decided that the convenerships of the committees will be allocated to different political parties. The Parliamentary Bureau has decided that the party that is eligible to hold the membership of the Health and Community Care Committee is the Liberal Democrat party. Margaret Smith is the person nominated. Does she accept the nomination?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.2891677+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283820",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 7502,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ID": 7502,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 283820,
      "EditedText": "Mrs Margaret Smith was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283825",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 283825,
      "EditedText": "We will hear them now, and if we can answer them, we will. If not, we will come back to them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283829",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 283829,
      "EditedText": "I am told that the committee can do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283830",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 283830,
      "EditedText": "I am not too sure about that. I am not saying that we should not discuss the important issue of PFI, but I think that the Audit Committee had the prime responsibility to take a retrospective view. This committee's concern should be whether PFI can, or will, deliver good health care. In other words, the committee should take a strategic view on operational matters related to health policy. We will not be the lead committee on matters of finance: that will fall to the Audit Committee under the chairmanship of Andrew Welsh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283831",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 283831,
      "EditedText": "Obviously there is a spillover between the financial aspects and the impact on staff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C283833",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 283833,
      "EditedText": "We need clarification not only on the retrospective aspects, but on our future inquiries into whether PFI is applicable. It would be damaging if all committees start to investigate all aspects of everything. In other words, if we cease to have committees with very specific responsibilities, we will end up with committees doing nothing, rather than doing something well.While it is right that we examine whether PFI can advance health care in Scotland, I would hesitate before we start to duplicate the work of, for example, the Finance Committee. It would not be right for the Education, Sport and Culture Committee, the Health and Community Care Committee, and the Transport and Environment Committee to begin a major investigation of PFI. They should examine PFI only as it impacts on their subject areas. The principles of PFI should be investigated elsewhere, and we must be clear about that; otherwise, we will have five or six committees doing the same thing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C283835",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 283835,
      "EditedText": "I would like clarification on the Minister for Finance's statement on Thursday, and on the Treasury's announcement of Alan Milburn's measures regarding PFI and the transfer of pensions. Will the measures apply in Scotland? If so, a lot of the concerns of low-paid workers will be removed, particularly those of health service workers, who were the ones at risk following transfer to private contractors. I would like that to be one of the first issues addressed, because I have represented individuals in the health service, particularly ancillary workers, for the past 20 years, and I am well aware of their concerns when they have to transfer to private contractors."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283836",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 283836,
      "EditedText": "I will go out on a limb and say that probably everyone on the committee shares that point of view."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C283837",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 283837,
      "EditedText": "It would be entirely appropriate for us to examine the staffing issues of PFI. There is no point in our covering the whole agenda, but we all want this committee to be involved in as much consultation with as many so-called experts and as many of the people of Scotland as possible.  Many radical health policies suggest that involving as many people as possible must be at the cutting edge of health policy.We need to address the public health agenda, particularly focusing on health inequalities. That is a big subject, so we may want to narrow it down."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C283839",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 283839,
      "EditedText": "One of my passions is food—not eating it, but talking about it—and food may be one way of addressing public health, for example, with regard to income inequalities.We want to focus on the health service as well. The present developments in primary care are at an early stage, and quite a lot remains to be resolved. We may want to look at that. There are many other areas to be addressed as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283840",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 283840,
      "EditedText": "That is a good point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C283845",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 283845,
      "EditedText": "This committee is responsible for one third of the Scottish Parliament budget and we have enormous challenges ahead of us. I do not disagree with anything Hugh Henry said; we had an open and honest debate about PFI in the chamber and I do not want to spend the precious time of the committee on number-crunching and deciding on the whys and wherefores of PFI. None the less, I hope that if we feel that a particular PFI project impacts on front-line patient care or that it has taken money away from patient care—it is patients that I am concerned about—members of this committee will make our representations to the Audit Committee. I agree with Hugh Henry: PFI is such a big topic that every committee could spend hours debating it. I would prefer to rise to and meet the challenges that are ahead of us.I would like to ask the committee to address the dental decay of our under-14-year-olds as a matter of priority. I received information from the British Dental Association about our poor record on dental health and I was amazed to discover that oral cancer and dental decay are the main reasons for hospital admissions for under-14-year-olds. That is an issue that does not necessarily need legislation, but the committee could perhaps work together to improve the situation.I would like to ask the British Dental Association in Scotland to come and advise us. I do not want to tell members what it told me, but I was alarmed by the extent of the problem and I would like the committee to address it as a priority.My second concern is drug abuse. I do not have the answers, but I would like to hear what everyone has to say and I hope that, together, the members of the Scottish Parliament will address the issue.I am being very consensual today"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C283847",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 283847,
      "EditedText": "I share Kay's concern."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C283848",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 283848,
      "EditedText": "So much so that she is going to agree with the SNP."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283850",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 283850,
      "EditedText": "In case members did not mention various items, I made a sweep-up list that I intended to refer to at the end. It includes the issue of rural health services and, as Kay said, health services delivered by postcode and the need to level the playing field for the patients of Scotland no matter where they live."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C283852",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 283852,
      "EditedText": "This committee has a unique opportunity to affect the lives of Scottish people. I hope that we will develop that in a positive and constructive way. Far be it for consensus to break out in the last week before the recess, but it looks as if it might. I am very pleased to be able to agree with my colleagues across the table, Mrs Ullrich and Mrs Scanlon. One of the major focus points of this committee should be tackling health inequality. I have figures that go up to 1990—there may be more up-to-date evidence—and show that 5,000 lives a year could be saved in Strathclyde if mortality rates there were the same as in the UK. There is a whole agenda relating to tackling inequalities: gender, social class and geography. It will be very difficult to examine all those issues. Perhaps we need to investigate how we focus on some of them. In the first instance, we need some analyses of the problem, and of the problem in Scotland relative to the rest of the United Kingdom and to some areas in Europe, if we are to get a clear picture of how to tackle it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C283854",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 283854,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is a disgrace that, going into the 21st century, the state of someone's health in Scotland is fundamentally a class issue. There may be other factors to consider, such as education and so on, but the links between poverty and ill health are well documented. We must address that. It is not just a matter of income: there are wider problems of education and habit to be considered. I would like us to spend time on that, linking in with the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, to encourage a more positive approach to fitness and participation in sport. Participation in sport can improve health as well as academic ability. We should consider not just lecturing and education, but practical measures through the social inclusion partnerships. We might consider projects in deprived areas and encourage initiatives that engage young people in physical activity at a younger and younger age, to improve health and education.There is another matter that relates to social class, although not exclusively—tobacco consumption. I want the Scottish Parliament to examine its legislative competence to find out whether we can do anything to accelerate the ban on tobacco advertising, even beyond the scope that Westminster is currently considering."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C283858",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 283858,
      "EditedText": "I could not agree more about waiting times. For most people, the time spent waiting from the moment of GP referral to the first appointment with the specialist is possibly the most worrying. We must tackle waiting times; waiting lists have undoubtedly gone down, but evidence suggests that while that has been happening, waiting times have gone up."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C283866",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 283866,
      "EditedText": "On a point of clarification—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283867",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 283867,
      "EditedText": "We are getting into a specific issue, and it is best if we move on—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283878",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 283878,
      "EditedText": "I am all for pushing back those barriers as well, Duncan. For us to do our job properly, we must have access to all the information that we require."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C283883",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 283883,
      "EditedText": "May I make one additional point? The briefing note that we received mentioned the weighted capitation formula and the fact that it is being reviewed in relation to how funds are distributed to health boards. That formula has been in place since 1977 and I expect that the results of the review, which will be produced in June, will be interesting to the committee. Perhaps we could examine those results soon after the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C283885",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 283885,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C283886",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 283886,
      "EditedText": "In the Army, I used to take young men and women from all over Scotland, of all classes and from all social and health backgrounds, and make them fit. We used to say that a fit body meant a fit mind, and vice versa, and was better for people's well-being. I agree with Hugh about the important role of sport and fitness for the young, in terms of prevention.My second point, which fits in with point 7 of our remit, concerns how a UK moratorium or European legislation affects certain health issues in Scotland when it comes to medical research. There is an current issue on the use of animal tissue, which is subject to a UK moratorium. Some parts of the medical research community feel that that is holding them up. We might be doing ourselves a disservice, in Scotland, by having such moratoriums. Medical research is related to prevention and, while we have other pressing matters to consider, preventive medicine must be given almost equal weight in our overall diary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283887",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 283887,
      "EditedText": "Health groups have spoken to me about the lack of funding for research. They feel that many of the funds raised on their behalf go into research, when there are pressing practical issues—such as those that Dorothy mentioned—on which they want to use the money. They feel that the Government should play a greater role in research."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C283888",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 283888,
      "EditedText": "When will the committee meet, and could it be at a regular time, for example, on Tuesday afternoons? That would be better for our diaries. Also, we have all come up with different ideas today; I mentioned dental decay. Will the convener clarify whether she will decide on the priorities? If we give her a wish list, for example, a request that the British Dental Association come to address us, who will decide on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283890",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 283890,
      "EditedText": "This may seem strange, but I welcome the proposal. Although I have been in the health service for a long time, it would still be useful to have briefings on certain issues. I am just concerned about spoiling our image with the Daily Record if we start meeting during the vacation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283816",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 7501,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7501,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 283816,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone else want to declare an interest? People will be able to declare interests at subsequent meetings if they have forgotten that they had them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.2891677+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283818",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 7502,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ID": 7502,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 283818,
      "EditedText": "I accept the nomination."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283819",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 7502,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ID": 7502,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 283819,
      "EditedText": "Do the members confirm that—or affirm it, or acclaim it, or whatever the word is?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283822",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 7502,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ID": 7502,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Margaret Smith): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 283822,
      "EditedText": "I thank members for affirming me as convener. I am in a strange situation as I am the only Liberal Democrat on the committee and therefore I am the convener whether members like me or not. I hope that members will find that I act in the best interests of the committee at all times and I am a fair and reasonable convener. That is my intention.I thank Dorothy for conducting the first part of the meeting. I have discovered another reason why women should lie about their age: to get out of doing things like that.I echo Dorothy's point about the number of members of the public and interested groups that are in attendance and I am sure that all members of the committee agree. It is an excellent sign that people will be interested in the work of the committee. During the next few years, we will probably talk to all the members of the public who are present to get their input into the difficult and serious work of the committee. I see some well-kent faces, but also some which are not known to me and are probably not known to other members of the committee. I hope we can rectify that in the next few years and that, working together, we will be able to improve health and community care in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283823",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 283823,
      "EditedText": "This is an important committee, which deals with life and death issues. Health is consistently the number one issue for people in Scotland. In the months and years to come, we will debate and make decisions on some important issues, including not only questions of finance and questions about what topics we want to cover—we will discuss that shortly—but the position of staff in our health and community care services.I hope to build as much of a consensus as we can in the committee. In health, there is an opportunity for a large degree of consensus to be built. Speaking on the hustings with Kay and others, we always manage to find something in common, and I hope we have not changed our positions too much to be able to do so again. Obviously, we will disagree on occasion, but foremost in our minds will be the betterment of health care.The committee has a number of important powers and functions, of which committee members will be aware. We are to consider and report on issues relating to the health policy and the national health service in Scotland and such other matters as fall within the responsibility of the Minister for Health and Community Care. I think that we can inquire into anything within that remit that we care to deal with.We can consider proposals for legislation; initiate bills; consider the need for the reform of the law; consider the financial proposals and financial administration of the Scottish Administration in areas that relate to us; consider European Communities legislation and international conventions or agreements; and consider petitions that are referred to us by the Public Petitions Committee. That substantial list should keep us well occupied and off the streets for the next few years.We will be assisted in our work by a number of officials, and some of them are with us today. The main clerk to the committee is Jennifer Smart. No doubt, committee members will become well acquainted with Jennifer and her team because she will keep us on the straight and narrow and make sure that we do not do anything that we should not. If we have any queries about how that will work in practice, for example on what we can and cannot do and on what we would like to do to make this committee as valuable as possible, Jennifer will help us.I have had an initial chat with Susan Deacon and the junior minister, Iain Gray, and both of them are keen to have an open involvement with this committee. At some point in the future we may have to ask them to come before us to answer questions in a more serious vein, but they are keen to come before us at an early stage to outline for us what they see as the way ahead for health in Scotland, and to listen to our views on that matter.In the absence of a health bill we have a wide remit. I would like to lead us into a discussion of the topics that members want the committee to address. I am also keen to get a flavour of the way in which members want this committee to function, because the committees will be the backbone of this Parliament and are central if we are serious about trying to do things in a more open and accountable way. I am keen to see an open and flexible committee that involves the general public and people throughout Scotland who have expertise in health and community care matters. I am interested to hear how members see those matters progressing.I will open up this discussion to each member in turn. If members could state their name before making their contribution it would help the people who activate the microphones.Duncan, could you start by giving us an idea of the topics that you would like us to cover, not only those subjects that we should do something about but those subjects on which we should be briefed, as well as a flavour of how you see the committee working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283824",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 283824,
      "EditedText": "I wish to raise two matters: our substantial range of issues and the way in which the committee will work. I have a number of questions on the remit of the committee, but I am not sure if you want to address them now, or hear them and return to them at a later stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283827",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 283827,
      "EditedText": "I understand that we can examine all of those things.One thing that I did not say in my opening remarks is that although we can propose substantive issues that we want to deal with, one of the issues that people in Scotland want us to tackle is drugs. That issue will cut across committees and we must find methods which not only make this committee work well, but ensure that it works well with other committees.On the matter of PFI, I said in the chamber that anyone who says they have no concern about how we are funding capital projects in Scotland in health and other areas is being economical with the truth. It is incumbent on us—and on other committees, particularly Finance and Audit, but also the Education, Culture and Sport Committee—to ensure that we are fulfilling our remit, which is to try to ensure that we have the best health care possible and that we deliver it at the best value possible to the people of Scotland. PFI is within the remit of this committee and others, and we will have to work with them to investigate it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283832",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 283832,
      "EditedText": "We will have to investigate the retrospective issue, but I told the ministers that PFI was one issue that the committee might want to discuss today. I did not get the impression that they thought the committee would not examine PFI—quite the opposite. We can get clarification on that for the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C283841",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 283841,
      "EditedText": "I will go along with what appears to be the majority view—that we will not be playing the pivotal role in PFI—but I imagine that this committee will want to examine how PFI affects staff in the health service.I agree with Malcolm that one of the major issues for this committee over the next few years is addressing Scotland's dreadful record on public health. It will play a pivotal role: almost poverty-proofing legislation from other committees with regard to its impact on public health. That is an important role for us, and I hope that we will assume the role of watchdog for public health to ensure that we move the public health agenda forward. Since the Black report in 1980, all we have done is talk and wring our hands about the state of Scotland's public health. We have a chance to do something about it, and this committee can be pivotal."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283842",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 283842,
      "EditedText": "Do you have any other matters that we should address?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C283843",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 283843,
      "EditedText": "We should address community care. Anyone who has gone through an election campaign  knows that that issue is raised time and again on the doorsteps. There are problems with the funding of community care. Local authorities are struggling to fund it. Problems in the interface between social work and the health service must be looked at. I am greatly concerned by service delivery by postcode. The amount of funding that follows the patient into the community can vary hugely between health boards, and there are huge differences in the types of services available, depending on where people stay.We also have the chance to examine the Sutherland report on the long-term care of the elderly. I am terrified that that report, which was very thorough and which consulted widely for 18 months, is being put on the shelf at Westminster. There are limitations to what we can do, because many of the recommendations are tied to the social security system, which is reserved, but we could start implementing many parts of the report, not least the proposal for a three-month disregard on a person's assets and family home in order to give them a breathing space. We should also tackle respite care, which I have already mentioned in Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283844",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 283844,
      "EditedText": "That is very good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283855",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 283855,
      "EditedText": "In my sweep-up list I had down the one word—addiction. People are concerned not only about tobacco and drugs, which we have mentioned already, but about the devastating effect of alcohol abuse. I agree with Hugh's points about sport and young people, but the issue continues right through people's lives. The Justice and Home Affairs Committee will also have an interest in it because involvement in sport can improve people's self-esteem and so has an impact on wider society."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283856",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 283856,
      "EditedText": "I am concerned that we will try to cover the whole area of health in a very short time. We have to sit down at an early stage to decide on our priorities. Members will notice that the key elements of the proposals in \"Partnership for Scotland\", which is the basis on which the Executive has laid out its health proposals, are centred on the patient, with increased patient participation and involvement to improve patients' experience of the NHS. That seems likely to be one of the key tests of the organisational performance of the NHS in Scotland and one of our primary functions should be to examine carefully how those aims are being met. If we are simply sloganising about patient participation and it does not mean anything in practice, in four years' time people will be extremely disgruntled with the Parliament.There are other issues that are more focused and precise. Before the establishment of the Parliament, the Labour Government manifesto included a commitment to reducing waiting lists.  As we can see from the most recent quarterly bulletin, that has happened. As the partnership agreement says:\"We will set and monitor targets to speed treatment and shorten waiting times.\"In other words, the Executive proposes to move on from the blunt instrument of waiting lists. We have an opportunity to examine what happened with waiting lists. I hope that, being a new Parliament, we can do that on a relatively non-partisan basis. We can take evidence about what was good and bad about the waiting list initiatives. There has been a lot of criticism in the press about over-expenditure and the waste of public money in that area.The Government appears to have achieved its blunt objective of reducing waiting lists—I think to about 6,000 below the target—and I assume that there will be initiatives over the summer to keep the figure down. If we are to move to waiting times, we should take evidence from interested groups on how we can ensure that the Executive implements that move in a way that is publicly acceptable, based on the problems that we had with waiting lists.I support Malcolm Chisholm's—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283857",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 283857,
      "EditedText": "Sorry, Richard, I want to let Kay come in on that point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283859",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 283859,
      "EditedText": "That is not true."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C283860",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 283860,
      "EditedText": "That is what the latest evidence suggests. We should ask the Executive for quarterly reports on waiting time progress. We should also ask for the information to be broken down by health board area and by specialty, because we must find out if there are problems in certain specialties."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283861",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 283861,
      "EditedText": "This is a complex area. If we all agree that we need to examine and establish—in a non-partisan way—the principles by which we want our health service to be judged, we can tell the Executive what we want to hold it to. Kay is quite right: the waiting time for in-patient procedures has dropped, but what does that mean if the patient had to wait to be put on the list in the first place? All sorts of criteria are involved, on which we need, urgently, to establish principles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283863",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 283863,
      "EditedText": "Representatives of the British Medical Association and the Royal College of Nursing are here today and might like to comment on that in a moment.I hope that the public does not get the impression that we will all sit round this table for four years being consensual, like good little boys and girls, and that we do not have fundamental questions about how things are run.We cannot escape the question of PFI. It dominates the minds of those who work in the health service, and of the public. Surely, for each case that we consider, we will investigate every possible link with PFI. I see no problem in getting the facts and figures on PFI and debating them here, just as the Education, Culture and Sport Committee will do in relation to schools. To a large extent, PFI will dictate staffing numbers and how hospitals are run and those aspects will not escape discussion in this committee.On the wider subject of care in the community, we heard the great buzz words \"social inclusion\" throughout the election and, in fact, throughout the past two or three years. I have seen very little sign of it in relation to people who need to be consulted and socially included.Every week I visit organisations where I hear of tragic cases in which people have not been consulted. Last week, I sat in a room at Easterhill day centre in Baillieston village. The centre, which seems quite pleasant, is run for people with profound disabilities, who have been together as a family for 20 years. Some of those people are 50 and have parents who are now over 80. They were being told by three social workers that the centre is to close. The parents replied that the social workers had told them that they would be consulted about where their families were going. They are to be moved to three different centres, which are for people with different grades of disability. The parents were worried about abuse and they had not been consulted. Even the meeting was held at a time that made it awkward for the parents to attend. The social workers claimed that there was something wrong with the building. I asked to see an engineer's report but they could not show me one and simply said that the council must save money. We must query why the council is being cut so hard by the Government that people are in such a plight.I have witnessed three other such cases in just one corner of one constituency. That is not good enough and it is not good enough to use the term social inclusion when in reality it describes people who are being excluded."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283865",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 283865,
      "EditedText": "We are now only 10 minutes from the end of our meeting. Six members want to speak and there are a couple of other matters that we must get through. Unless members feel that they have a burning contribution to make at this point, I ask them to make their comments brief."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C283868",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 283868,
      "EditedText": "No, I need clarification. Was Dorothy-Grace Elder talking about a health service provision or a local authority provision? She needs to be specific."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283871",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 283871,
      "EditedText": "It is not used enough. Some awful things are happening and we need to encourage staff to come forward and tell us about those things, without fear for their jobs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283872",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 283872,
      "EditedText": "People should be able to do that at the moment, although whether they actually do so might be a different matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283874",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 283874,
      "EditedText": "We are running out of time. I know that Duncan, Malcolm, Irene and Ben—in that order—still want to speak. If we left it at that, they would all have a minute each."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283875",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 283875,
      "EditedText": "I need less than a minute. First, on how the committee works with reference to obtaining further breakdowns of waiting list times and so on, there is an important point to make about the committee having access to information that is not currently available. Can we have a guarantee that the committee will be able to request the information that it wants and that it will get it?Secondly, on the committee's work and its priorities, there is no health bill, but that is not to say that there are no health implications in the other bills. Presumably, the committee will keep a close watch over the transport bill and the incapable adults bill, on which we will have a huge input. Let us not assume that the lack of a bill means a lack of legislative input."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283877",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 283877,
      "EditedText": "I am talking not just about information that is available; much of it is not collated in the way that we would want it to be."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C283881",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 283881,
      "EditedText": "Already, from each of us identifying one or two areas of policy in which we are interested, it seems that we have a weighty work load. Does the convener have any thoughts on how to prioritise that work? I am quite clear about my priorities and I should like the issue of tackling inequalities and the link between poverty, class and health to be high on the agenda."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283891",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 283891,
      "EditedText": "That sounds like a very good reason for doing it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283892",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 283892,
      "EditedText": "Reporters might then realise that some of us have packed diaries and are not on holiday, but working in our constituencies; we already have many fixed diary dates. As a result, we need to fix a date as soon as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283895",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 283895,
      "EditedText": "I think that all of us will have the same problem and, with respect, I will use my casting vote as convener as my holidays are in August.It will be impossible to find a day that will suit everyone, but is there general agreement to set up a day of briefings so that we are heading in the right direction? We can make sure that briefing papers are available for those of us who are unable to make it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283896",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 283896,
      "EditedText": "If there are problems with getting members together on one day, it might be better to have two half-days so that we do not all miss everything."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C283897",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 283897,
      "EditedText": "We could have a back-up briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C283899",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 283899,
      "EditedText": "Can we come back and have another discussion on that last point? I have some reservations about the notion of a travelling circus. I do not mind the idea of meeting outwith Edinburgh where it is appropriate and where it will assist our work, but I am also the convener of a committee that might meet weekly. We need to examine how to fit our other commitments into travelling outside Edinburgh. By all means, let us travel elsewhere if it adds value to what we are doing, but I do not want a committee that travels the length and breadth of Scotland just for the sake of it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283902",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 283902,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:23."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C283809",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Health and Community Care Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 7500,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 283809,
      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 14:20"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.2891677+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283811",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 7501,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7501,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 283811,
      "EditedText": "We are required to make a declaration of interests that might affect our judgment or prejudice us. I will declare my interests first. I have no commercial ties with any body that is connected with health but I have been a fund-raising trustee of the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Glasgow for 19 years. I have received no payment or expenses in connection with that role. I am a patron of the mental health body, No Panic, and a member of the Medical Journalists Association, but the idea is that the members pay it, not that it pays them.Do any members want to declare an interest?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.2891677+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C283813",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 7501,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 7501,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 283813,
      "EditedText": "I will be a partner in general practice and will be employed as a psychiatrist until I can complete my notice. I am employed as a medical adviser on adoption and fostering. I chair an educational group on prostate disease that is sponsored by Merck Sharpe and Dohme. I have a directorship of  an organisation called Nursing Home Management, which has nursing home beds in England. I will undertake some locum work as a medical practitioner. I write articles for various medical journals. I am a member of the British Medical Association, the Royal College of General Practitioners, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, the British Association of Psychopharmacology and the Scottish Association for Mental Health. Finally, I have an honorary professorship of psychology at Stirling University, where I am engaged in medical research. I am sorry to have taken up so much of the committee's time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.2891677+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283821",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 7502,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7502,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 283821,
      "EditedText": "I wish Margaret much success."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283826",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 7503,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 283826,
      "EditedText": "Obviously, one of our big issues is finance. Part of the committee's remit is\"To consider the financial proposals and financial administration of the Scottish Administration which relate or affect any competent matter.\"For us, that matter is health.Does the remit relate simply to the budget, or can the committee look at issues such as the private finance initiative and the levering of private capital, even though there are Finance and Audit Committees? Those are important issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1985E207P501C283828",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hamilton, Mr Duncan",
      "ID": 1985,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 283828,
      "EditedText": "Does the remit apply retrospectively? If so, it would seem to be a logical extension for the committee to look at the value that is being delivered at the moment.On the issue of cross-committee co-operation—which, as you say, is crucial in light of what we are trying to do in the chamber and in committees—what mechanism is envisaged for ensuring that such co-operation happens? It is all very well to talk about it, but can this committee request the attendance of ministers from other departments in the same way that it can request the attendance of a health minister or official?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283834",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 283834,
      "EditedText": "I agree. I do not envisage that the Health and Community Care Committee will be the lead committee in looking at PFI: the most important committees will be the Finance and Audit Committees. However, there are issues for us concerning how we deliver the best health care and how we deliver the best conditions for the staff in the health service. Although the committee will be interested in PFI, I would like to see us moving forward with the positive agenda of trying to find some areas in which we have broad consensus. We need to deliver something positive early on, which people can say is an in-depth inquiry undertaken by the health committee, and which makes progress on the topics and issues that matter within health care, rather than tackling the broad umbrella subject of PFI."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283838",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 283838,
      "EditedText": "That takes care of two years' work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1811E172P455C283846",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ullrich, Kay",
      "ID": 1811,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Kay Ullrich: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 283846,
      "EditedText": "Long may it continue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C283849",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
      "ID": 1839,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 283849,
      "EditedText": "I am actually going to agree with the SNP. We must consider the care of the elderly; it impacts on many areas, such as bed blocking. There is not as good a relationship between the social work departments and the NHS as there should be and there is also some concern that private nursing homes and council nursing homes are not treated equally. Care of the elderly is a far greater remit than dental decay, but I would like us to address it seriously.My final point goes back to Duncan's comments. It has been brought to my attention that much of the NHS budget is allocated according to mechanisms such as the deprivation index, which assumes that a person who has a car is wealthy. A person without a car in the Highlands is unable to get out and the cost of keeping the car on the road—the price of petrol—causes deprivation. I want us to consider the criteria for allocating NHS resources."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C283851",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 283851,
      "EditedText": "I want to pick up on what Kay and Mary said and focus on care in the community. The joint investment fund is an untapped facility that interfaces between acute and primary care. I want to investigate whether we can expand on it. I would be interested primarily in best practice—the way in which it interfaces with social work, voluntary organisations and the health service—because personal experience suggests that it is not working as it was intended to. It is supposed to provide a service. We could gather evidence from all the bodies that fall within the JIF, as it is called, because it is certainly not performing as it should.I would also like to consider consultation and participation in the widest sense, in two areas in particular.  We should consider the consultation with NHS staff that was carried out in the past two years through the Scottish Partnership Forum, to discover where we are, where we are going and the outcomes of that process. Are there lessons to be learned about the inclusion of other organisations? Forgive me for saying so, but there is one organisation outwith the Scottish Partnership Forum that should be consulted, to ensure that all staff are included at the same level.We should also consider consultation with patients. Last week, I attended a public meeting in Newmilns. The general practitioners who cover Darvel and Newmilns had decided to provide out-of-hours service through Ayrshire Doctors-on-Call. There was no consultation with the patients. Eighty-eight people attended that meeting and obviously it was the bad things about Ayrshire Doctors-on-Call that came out. They fully accepted that doctors had been pushed to the limit in providing seven-day cover for their patients, but felt that they had been denied the right to say what was good about the current service and why they did not want to be passed on to Ayrshire Doctors-on-Call. We need to consider how we involve patients or potential users—if that is the best description—at a Scottish level, and where services affect patients directly. We are not getting that through local health councils, which we all know are appointed bodies and do not interface with the general public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283853",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 283853,
      "EditedText": "Before the election, some of us spent months going around speaking to various groups, and I am glad to hear what members are saying about continuing that process. When I was speaking to people in Chest, Heart and Stroke Scotland, they pointed out some of the work that was being done in Scandinavian countries such as Finland, which had had similar problems with coronary heart disease and stroke.This committee must have an open outlook and learn lessons not just from Scotland, but from the wider picture in Europe and the UK. Every member is aware that our health record is not the envy of Europe. If the committee can do anything to change that we will have achieved a fair amount."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1839E60P23C283862",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Scanlon, Mary",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mary Scanlon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 283862,
      "EditedText": "I support that, but I want to expand the point. Everyone wants more patients to be treated, but it is not for the Government to decide on priorities; that should be done by clinicians. I do not want waiting lists for minor operations to be slashed while people are having to wait for major operations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C283864",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 283864,
      "EditedText": "On a point of clarification—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283869",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 1679
    },
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      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 283869,
      "EditedText": "I was talking about local authority care in the community. I suggest that over the next few weeks, we think about encouraging whistleblowing in the social services and the national health service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C283870",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
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    "Time": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 283870,
      "EditedText": "We have whistleblowing already. It is up to people to use it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283873",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 283873,
      "EditedText": "They do not feel confident."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283876",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 283876,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely. We will have access to information through our clerks and we have a researcher working in the information centre. However, at my initial meeting with the Executive last week, at which a senior health department official was present, I asked specifically about access to information and was given assurances that there would be a large degree of openness."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C283879",
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      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
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      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 283879,
      "EditedText": "We should decide what we are doing with regard to relationships with other committees. We will relate to all the committees, but most of all, perhaps, to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee. It might be appropriate, at times, to have a joint sub-committee or joint meetings. My view is that we should be relaxed, for example, if the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee wants to do a study on drugs, or if we want to do a study on the health aspects of housing. We should not feel that we cannot do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283880",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 283880,
      "EditedText": "On that point, I have discussed the idea of having a committee of conveners, in which members could inform others of the direction in which their committees were going. Such a committee would be an early indication of our being able to work across committees to undertake such studies. In terms of time management, one committee might want to do three or four inquiries, whereas it would be more sensible for another to undertake some of that work because its work load was not so heavy. Informal working between conveners would have a number of benefits."
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  {
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 283882,
      "EditedText": "I have heard what everyone has had to say—I will come to Ben in a minute—and have an idea of what members are interested in. It would be helpful if members put their thoughts on priorities in writing. Before the end of the committee, I intended to ask members to delegate authority to me, based on the views that I have heard and on what members put in writing to me, to agree the initial programme and identify some of the first speakers whom we want to brief us. If members are happy for me to do that, I can make progress during the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283884",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 283884,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the Arbuthnott report might come to the committee so that we can work on it. I assume that that is the report you mean?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283889",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 283889,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that I will take what members give me and produce proposals. However, I should not like us to lose the possibility of having a few things organised in advance, because I hope that we can hit the ground running when we come back after the recess.I am keen to discuss the idea of having a meeting—not exactly a committee meeting, but perhaps a day of briefings—during the recess. We could spend a day on that and use lunchtime to get to know one another a little better, so that we can work together better as a unit.We have run out of time, but I would like an idea of when members might be available during July. Obviously, not everyone can be available. What I have in mind is a day of background briefings on some of the issues raised today; we would be able to ask some of the main players in the civil service to talk to us. Susan Deacon and Iain Gray are also keen to meet committee members. We have to build up relationships between committee members, between ourselves and other people with whom we have to work and between ourselves and people in the community who have access to more expertise on this subject than most of us—and I do not include Richard in that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283893",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 283893,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate the difficulty in what I am asking committee members to do, but the exercise would be quite useful for us. Afterwards, members could head off to sunnier climes with all sorts of information to read up on over the long recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C283894",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 283894,
      "EditedText": "This is supposed to be a family-friendly Parliament. It is not like Westminster, where the holiday period starts in August. For most of us with families, we need July to spend time with our children. Furthermore, because we are so close to July, some of us have already made commitments for the part of that month when we are not on holiday. It would be more realistic to have the briefing day in early August as August is a proper working month for most of us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283898",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 283898,
      "EditedText": "If committee members give me an idea of available dates, we can see how difficult it will be to arrange things. If no one can make it, we will not go ahead; if the majority of members can come, we will set up the meeting.Committee members can write to me about other issues that I was hoping to tease out today, but it sounds as if that will be a very long letter. One such issue is the committee's location and whether committee members are happy to go out and have public meetings. The committee could go to another part of Scotland and have a meeting that might involve a fact-finding mission somewhere in the locality. We could also have a public meeting on the evening of that day or the day before, to talk about a health issue with people in that area. It would be a matter not of travelling just to have a committee meeting—which can be pretty dull despite the fact that the committee members are all interesting people—but of expanding beyond that. Do members have any other ideas on making the committee function as effectively and as openly as possible, so that we can forge good links with the people we represent, with the people who have access to more expertise and information than we do and with the patients of Scotland, who are the main issue? I see that time is against us—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1762E216P508C283900",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Elder, Dorothy-Grace",
      "ID": 1762,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dorothy-Grace Elder: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 283900,
      "EditedText": "I am worried about the public expense of meeting elsewhere. If we have to do that, we should cut out overnight stays and have a very long day somewhere instead. Besides, Glasgow has the worst health problems and it is very easy to get there and back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1826E199P351C283901",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Health and Community Care Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1679
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Health and Community Care Committee",
      "ID": 134
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 7503,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ID": 7503,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Margaret",
      "ID": 1826,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 283901,
      "EditedText": "This committee has a role not just to talk about health but to go out and see how people on the ground work. Dorothy's point about the public purse is important. If we made the best possible use of a day by rolling a few different items together, that would minimise the effect of time wasted going somewhere and coming back. An important part of our job is not just to talk about health and to listen to one another—which is interesting and valuable up to a point—but to ask people to speak to us and to go out and see how people work in health and community care services and in social work services. That would also be valuable to us.I do not expect that that would happen very often. However, committee members are beholden to show openness and the flexibility to have an on-going relationship with other people. I would welcome any other comments about that. As far as I am concerned, nothing is set in stone. I think that we are all getting used to the fact that this is an evolving process and that we are making it up as we go along—which I hope does not show too much. We will try things that will not work, but I do not want us to say that we will not be open, flexible or different just because we are afraid to make a mistake. We need to find different ways of working, to make this an effective committee for the patients and people of Scotland, and I hope that we are all agreed on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:48.3204172+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 104404,
      "EditedText": "Will we move on to a general discussion about how the committee will go about its business? I have one or two points to raise on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4270101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 104370,
      "EditedText": "It is important that, as Ian says, we do not allow sport and culture to fall off our agenda. There is a danger that that could happen if the education bill consumes our time. An early briefing from the Scottish Sports Council, which provides comprehensive briefings, would be useful. I strongly support the idea of having two sub-committees, one to consider sport and the other to consider culture. We could give those matters proper consideration rather than squeezing them into the remainder of the agenda after we have finished with the education bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:09.5583737+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2126,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 104316,
      "EditedText": "I declare that I was a teacher for three days on 7, 8 and 9 May 1999 after the election. I have put that in the register. I am also a member of the Educational Institute of Scotland, but I do not think that that is relevant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2126,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 104323,
      "EditedText": "I am married to a teacher and am the son of two teachers. That will, no doubt, influence my thinking. In terms of registered interests, I am still a director of a television and film company that produces work for a variety of broadcasting companies and which has, in the past, applied to Scottish Screen. I am also an author and my publisher has received grants from the Scottish Arts Council for publication of my books."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 2127,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 2127,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 104329,
      "EditedText": "The Parliament has decided on a motion of the bureau that the convener of this committee will be chosen from its Labour members. I invite anyone from that party who wishes to stand to identify himself or herself and to confirm his or her candidature."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 2127,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 2127,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 104333,
      "EditedText": "I now have great pleasure in inviting the successful candidate to take the chair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 104335,
      "EditedText": "The committee must consider its remit. Members should think about how they see the committee proceeding and about any briefings that would assist the committee in carrying forward its remit at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 104337,
      "EditedText": "We will need to check that. Are there any other questions or comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 104345,
      "EditedText": "I will ask the clerk to clarify how long it will be before the bill, which is published next Wednesday, comes before the Parliament.The bill will come before Parliament at the end of October, so there is some time between its publication and its consideration by Parliament. However, I take Mr Macintosh's point—obviously, we will want the minister to attend the committee to discuss the bill with us. We will ask the clerks to arrange that, if members agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 104348,
      "EditedText": "Will our work on education extend to considering child-centred policies and policies for young people? It is important that the committee gathers in child-centred statistics and publishes them—possibly as an annual report—so that we can see what is being done, not only in education, but in all areas that affect our children and young people."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 104349,
      "EditedText": "I understand—I am sure that I will be corrected if I am wrong—that, because the minister holds the portfolio for children and education, it is within the committee's remit to consider any matter that relates to children. Fiona McLeod's suggestion is useful and will be noted."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 104355,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that we can influence any legislation that affects children. Where a lead committee is designated, on the basis of where most responsibility lies, other committees can contribute to that committee's findings. With regard to measures that affect children, there are no barriers to our influence. We must accept that the committee set-up will involve overlaps, and that there should be no bar on committees making their views known where necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 104361,
      "EditedText": "I should perhaps have declared that I have a child with special needs. I want to ensure—again, this relates to child-proofing legislation—that the rights of children with special needs and the responsibilities of staff and local authorities are scrutinised carefully. I regard the inclusion of children with special educational needs as a human rights issue. That said, I will champion the issue in this committee and in the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 104368,
      "EditedText": "During the bureau's discussion on the establishment of committees, I raised the question whether it was appropriate that education, culture and sport were to be included in one committee. I suggested a culture and sport committee or even a culture committee and a sport committee. That was rejected in the interests of economy and of creating a manageable committee structure. However, I was told that there was the potential to establish sub-committees to take up particular initiatives. Over the recess, we should consider whether to establish standing sub-committees on sport and culture.I echo Ian's comments. There are big issues to be discussed, including the forthcoming appointment of a senior person to the Scottish Sports Council; in culture, there are also huge issues of concern. The establishment of smaller, flexible sub-committees that can undertake some of that work—particularly when we are considering the education bill—would be appropriate. If the committee agrees, we should try to do that after the recess, at an early stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 104372,
      "EditedText": "I sympathise with all those views, although I am conscious of the fact that the key thing is that we find enough time to discuss education, culture and sport. I have slight reservations about setting up lots of sub-committees because I welcome the chance to discuss education, culture and sport in the main committee. I do not particularly want all the culture discussions to take place in a sub-committee as I would not be able to take part if I were not a member of that sub-committee. The same is true of sport.I agree that the establishment of sub-committees is a practical proposition for dealing with the volume of work with which we expect to cope."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 104373,
      "EditedText": "There would be no barrier to other members of the committee attending the meetings of sub-committees, contributing to discussions or listening to presentations. I appreciate that we all want to take part, but it might be helpful if we approached some issues in smaller groups, and thus freed up time for other issues. There is a limit to the time during which the committee will meet, and I would hate to see sport and culture fall off the end of the agenda, particularly given the fact that we will have the education bill to consider. The clerk has heard what has been said, and we will consider the issues that have been raised and work out the feasibility of establishing sub-committees. I am also aware that members probably serve on other committees; the clerks are currently working hard to timetable all the meetings. Having sub-committees might ensure that there was no lack of impetus on sport and culture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 104375,
      "EditedText": "We have only to look at the briefings that we were sent and the many organisations that contribute, very professionally, to the sport and culture debate, to see how many people could contribute to the work of the committee. Again, it might be useful to do that at a sub-committee level.We would all like to have input into the programme that is outlined in \"Sport 21\", following a presentation by the Scottish Sports Council.We will move on to discuss the culture remit and any briefings that members would like."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 104377,
      "EditedText": "Those of us with a local authority background will know that much good work is being done in estates, cities and small villages throughout the country and we would not want to lose that. We will try to discuss that issue in due course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 104382,
      "EditedText": "I was just about to mention that. Although late August might be difficult for some members—especially if we are going to have a sub-committee—we might have an opportunity to dovetail with the festival."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 104383,
      "EditedText": "From what we have heard of Greg Dyke, he sounds open to ideas about broadcasting in Scotland. However, as Ian said, it may be difficult for him to appear before this committee before he has bedded down as director-general. Will the committee meet during the festival in August? I do not think that it will."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 104384,
      "EditedText": "I do not think that the date for the next meeting has been decided, although that may be a matter for the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 104386,
      "EditedText": "Are you suggesting that William Hague is not an important person, Mr Monteith?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 104389,
      "EditedText": "Not on expenses."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 104393,
      "EditedText": "Greg Dyke has proved himself very willing to talk and I think that he might welcome the opportunity to meet us. It might even be the right thing to do during the television festival. I am grateful for that progress."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 104395,
      "EditedText": "I want to move from broadcasting to libraries. I find the issue of libraries difficult—both personally and professionally—to discuss under the term culture, although libraries have a big input into people's cultural and literary lives. One of the biggest concerns of the library profession in Scotland is the information service aspect of librarianship. There has been an explosion—through information and communications technology—in the role of libraries and of information in people's lives. I am keen to work out how to co-ordinate that, especially with regard to ICT networks such as the national grid for learning, the public libraries network, NHS Net and JANET—I could go on. All those networks run in parallel. At the moment in Scotland, we are spending £144 million on parallel developments which are not talking to one another. One of the greatest things about Scotland is that its size—5 million people—its geography and its people's educational background should allow us to integrate information matters into a national strategy that would serve the information needs of the people and allow Scotland to become a world leader. Such strategies already exist. Ireland has a fairly developed information strategy, as has Denmark, and Singapore is called, I think, the smart island. Scotland is just the right size for such a national information strategy. I would be desperate if we missed the opportunity at the start of a new century and a new Parliament to change what we are doing and found that in 20 years' time, instead of having one network to serve everyone's needs, we had to renew five, six or seven networks. This issue cuts across education and enterprise—in fact, it takes in everything. I am not sure how we can fit the matter into the committee's remit but I want us to address it. That could also save the country money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 104396,
      "EditedText": "We will take that point firmly on board. The issue of libraries cuts across many areas and it is essential to address it if we are to continue to promote the availability of information to all the people in Scotland. It is important that we work on the issues that Fiona McLeod has raised."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 104402,
      "EditedText": "They relate to cultural identity, which is very much part of our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 191.0,
      "ContributionID": 104405,
      "EditedText": "Yes, we will do that—I just wanted to check whether anyone had further points on sport and culture. I do not want to be accused of moving on too quickly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 197.0,
      "ContributionID": 104408,
      "EditedText": "Many attempts have made to draw together a cultural calendar; I am not sure that any of them have succeeded. The thought that we could stimulate such a calendar is interesting, although it would reflect only public activities—there is a great deal of other activity.I endorse what Ian said about local authorities as partners and deliverers, but it will be germane to this committee to consider whether local authorities are so resourced that they can continue to provide participation in culture, for instance, and well-funded services. Funding has been a considerable problem in recent years—indeed, almost for as long as one can remember. If local authority services and input cannot be resourced, they will not exist."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104412",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 104412,
      "EditedText": "Scottish local authorities operate under a best-value regime, which is significantly better at delivering services than the old compulsory competitive tendering regime. Many local authorities not only deliver, but support external organisations. For example, my authority supported the Keynote trust and Borderline theatre in productive public-private partnerships. Another advert for South Ayrshire Council's activity is that it is working hard to create a Scottish school for music and recording technology in Ayr. There are good examples of effective service delivery and productive partnerships with other organisations to deliver cultural renaissance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104414",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 104414,
      "EditedText": "Partnership is fine, but the role of the Scottish Arts Council must also be considered anew. I questioned the Minister for Children and Education about that last week and, although he refused to consider a review of the SAC, it is important that we closely examine its operation. A new director of the SAC is coming into place and it may be appropriate for us to do something about a review in the autumn. The SAC spends about £26 million or £27 million of public money—I am not trying to sound like Brian—and usually spends it rather well, but there are big questions about the size of its bureaucracy. We should ask questions and seek reassurance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104417",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 104417,
      "EditedText": "I would like to pick up on a few of those points. It is open to the committee to decide whether it wants to move around the country; I would appreciate any other views on that. The clerks have investigated some places to which we could go. It will be important to tie in the subjects that we are examining with the places that we visit—we should not hike around the country for no apparent reason. It will also be important to go to accessible places: if we are serious about being an open Parliament, we should go to places to which as many people as possible can get, so that people outside Edinburgh can come and speak to us. The clerks will continue to examine venues that could accommodate us; we have to be aware that we take an entourage with us, which also has to be accommodated.The committee does not have powers to co-opt people, but we can ask for advisers to work alongside us. I know that that is perhaps playing with words, but I hope that it addresses Nicola's concern and would be satisfactory."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2125,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 2125,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 104313,
      "EditedText": "Good morning and welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the first meeting of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. It must come as great surprise to you all that I am the oldest person here. I was at the Beltane ceremony in Peebles, where a wee girl called Sophie became queen for the day. I can now be Winnie Ewing for five minutes. It is my duty to welcome members of the committee now that there are enough members present to form a quorum. If members do not all have briefing papers, there might be some spare ones.As the oldest member, I must preside over the first two items of business, which are the declaration of members' interests and the committee's choice of convener. After that is done, the elected convener will take the chair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2126,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 104319,
      "EditedText": "Apart from all my past sins, I hold a contract to publish the Royal Lyceum theatre programme. I do not know whether that will be renewed. My wife paints."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2126,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 104322,
      "EditedText": "I have nothing to declare but a passion for Scots music and culture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2126,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh (Ayr) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 104326,
      "EditedText": "I am a former deputy head teacher and a former member of the EIS. I am chief executive and director of Kilmarnock Football Club. I will continue to do that in an unremunerated capacity, although that has some contractual benefits to me that still accrue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 2127,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2127,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Mulligan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 104330,
      "EditedText": "I wish to stand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 2127,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 2127,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 104331,
      "EditedText": "Mary Mulligan wishes to be considered. As no one else wishes to be considered, the nominations are closed. Once the clerk has confirmed the result, I shall announce it to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 104336,
      "EditedText": "Will archive services be within the remit of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 104339,
      "EditedText": "It is obviously within our powers to consult and to introduce any innovations that are missing from the formal procedures. Anything that the committee wishes to take on board would be possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 104342,
      "EditedText": "I will raise that later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 104343,
      "EditedText": "To give more structure to the meeting, can we deal first with any comments and questions that members have about education? We can then move on to culture and sport. That will bring some order to our discussion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 104344,
      "EditedText": "The Government is to introduce an education bill, which, given that it is the most important piece of legislation that will come before Parliament, is bound to occupy most of our time. We should invite Sam Galbraith to appear before this committee after he has published the draft bill next week. I do not want the committee to get into the habit of meeting during the recess or outside parliamentary hours, but there might be a case for meeting after the bill is published and before we reconvene after the recess. At that meeting, Sam Galbraith could talk us through the bill, and we could ask him some preliminary questions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 104347,
      "EditedText": "I agree totally, but I am conscious of the time scale to which we are working. We are close to the recess, and that might make it difficult for some members to attend; I want as many members of the committee as possible to have that opportunity. However, Nicola Sturgeon is right, and we will try to work something out as quickly as possible.Does any other member have points to make about education?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 104353,
      "EditedText": "Again, at this stage I cannot give the member a definite answer, as we are not sure what the division of responsibility will be. Having said that, it is quite feasible for the committee to consider issues that overlap between committees, of which there will be many. There is no bar on us including the matter to which Mr Monteith refers in our remit and investigating it when we wish. We can also work jointly with other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 2128,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 104356,
      "EditedText": "I want to expand on that point. The UK is a signatory to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, which refers to the child-proofing of legislation. We, as a committee—and, perhaps, as a Parliament—could reaffirm our belief in the UN convention and ensure that our Parliament child-proofs legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 104358,
      "EditedText": "I am delighted that the convener said that teachers must be listened to, as I did not want to have to say it myself. Given the current situation in education, the role of teachers is desperately important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 104359,
      "EditedText": "The whole idea of this Parliament is that it should be open and inclusive. We must ensure that young people and parents have an opportunity to influence the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 104360,
      "EditedText": "I agree. Can we move on from education?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 104362,
      "EditedText": "There is a legal provision that primary schools in certain categories can be closed only if there is an appeal to the relevant minister. When the Parliament takes its powers at the end of the week, this committee might be a useful vehicle for taking part in that procedure. It was announced last week that a school in Islay is to close. My wife has gone through the same thing in her school; it would be heartening for parents in those circumstances to know that there was a committee that took an interest in special circumstances, examined the need for rural primary schools and did not always take the view that cost saving and cost cutting were the best course to follow. In terms of the point that Cathy made about parents, it would be reassuring if the committee were to take a sympathetic, watching brief on the closure of rural primary schools."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 104364,
      "EditedText": "Rural primary schools are very important. When I was leader of South Ayrshire Council, it had a small schools initiative, which attempted to keep some rural schools open when there were cash constraints. I commend that scheme and a number of others for perusal by the committee in the context of ensuring that rural primary schools are not adversely affected by the cash constraints of local authorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 104366,
      "EditedText": "We are all aware of the cash constraints under which local authorities operate—no authorities want to close schools. However, it would be useful if we could add to the discussion.I want to move on to discuss the committee's sport remit. Are there any individuals or groups with which the committee would like to discuss the sport remit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 104367,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Sports Council—officers of which are with us today—should be asked to give us its vision of the future. I strongly believe that sport and culture should not be regarded as the cinderellas of the committee. Sport is a vital ingredient in social cohesion in many parts of our community—with some dishonourable exceptions. In the main, sport is a vehicle for social inclusion and should be regarded in that way, particularly in its interface with health and healthy living. I should like the Scottish Sports Council to discuss with us how it sees sport developing in the widest sense. Sport is also an important indicator of economic success. It is a vital ingredient in the economy and is often disregarded.I am making a big play for sport to be made a central focus of the committee as well as of the whole business of social inclusion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 104371,
      "EditedText": "I endorse that point. It is particularly important that culture is not sidelined or left to the end of the agenda. I support the idea of a standing sub-committee focusing on Scottish culture, because there are so many issues to consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 104378,
      "EditedText": "Obviously we want the widest possible interpretation of arts and culture. Although I am not sure that the national strategy per se will achieve that, we should pause and see whether it will. Cathy is right about arts in the community, where a whole range of activities is taking place. I want to narrow down the discussion to the point that I made at the beginning of the meeting. There is no doubt that the broadcasting companies have a big influence on the culture of Scotland and have possibly the biggest influence as cultural animateurs. BBC Scotland has a direct influence on arts in Scotland, given the money that it spends. For example, many events taking place this week have been paid for, sponsored and broadcast by the BBC.The future plans and policies of BBC Scotland will be important to this committee as they will have a huge impact on the cultural life of Scotland. The most important driver of those policies will be the director-general. The appointment of the new director-general will give us the opportunity to ask him about those issues. We cannot demand that he attends this committee, but I am sure that he would find a polite invitation irresistible. If he came to discuss broadcasting matters, he might bring the controller of BBC Scotland, who could usefully answer questions about his own annual report. I ask for very early consideration of that matter. I think that the new director-general takes on the shadow role of deputy director-general in November, and we should ask to meet him before that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 104388,
      "EditedText": "It was an act of charity—William Hague does not get many visitors.It might be interesting to meet at least once during the festival to give us the opportunity to interest ourselves in the cultural and other events of the festival and the fringe. I suppose that could be a performance event in its own right."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 104394,
      "EditedText": "There seemed to be a suggestion that, if we agreed to set up sub-committees, the culture sub-committee could meet the new director-general. We cannot agree to that yet because the setting-up of sub-committees has to be referred back to the Parliament and we do not have the opportunity to do that. The meeting with the director-general would have to involve the whole committee, which would probably be for the better anyway."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 104400,
      "EditedText": "I am very wary of claiming any more issues, but I appreciate your point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 104401,
      "EditedText": "I back up that point. Nowadays, archival services are not just a depository; they exploit the information that they hold and are part of the country's information service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 193.0,
      "ContributionID": 104406,
      "EditedText": "Cathy talked about what is happening in communities. I want to record my view that local authorities are crucial partners in this exercise—I would say that, wouldn't I? I am happy to put on the record my faith in local authorities as deliverers of all the services within our remit. I hope that we can make the local authorities our first partners. In particular, I hope that we can lay to rest the notion that we want to be great centralisers in education. We should set our face firmly against that.Perhaps it would be helpful to start generating some kind of cultural calendar. I spoke to the Québecois Minister of Culture and Commerce, Madame Louise Beaudoin, when she was over here; she viewed culture, and the budget that is attached to it, as a driver for national identity. Is there any extant work on a Scottish cultural calendar? I mentioned the Ayrshire arts festival; others may mention the Marymas festival and the Edinburgh festival. Could some work be done to demonstrate the extent to which culture pervades Scottish civic life?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 104410,
      "EditedText": "Would that be the transfer as opposed to the taking back?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 104411,
      "EditedText": "If Ian wants local authorities to have Jordanhill, I look forward to his saying so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104415",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 104415,
      "EditedText": "I do not wish to curtail this discussion, but we have only about another five minutes and we wanted to move on to how the committee will operate.An important role for the committee, obviously, will be to challenge and question what has gone before rather than to assume that everything should be done as it was in the past. I hope that that covers Mike's point.We will move on to the issue, raised first by Nicola, of how the committee will operate. We are entering a recess, during which no committee meetings are timetabled. However, we may wish to be provided with early briefings so that we can take part in further discussions on the education bill. Does anyone have a view on how we should proceed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104423",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 104423,
      "EditedText": "The obvious difficulty will be calling the minister during the recess. However, we will bear in mind the fact that people are keen to follow up on that bill.I am aware, as we approach the recess, that the Parliament agreed to attempt to have its recess in parallel with school holidays. However, I want everybody in the committee to have the opportunity to meet the minister. We will make serious efforts to arrange that as soon as possible, but please bear with me on the dates.We are running out of time—is there anything else that members wish to raise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104425",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 232.0,
      "ContributionID": 104425,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that that will be noted. I thank you all for your attendance and contributions. I look forward to meeting you again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 104338,
      "EditedText": "We should quickly move on to discussion of our early role in relation to the education bill. My understanding is that the draft bill will be published next week and that there will be a consultation period over the summer. I am on record as having said that the consultation exercise is not as innovative as it might have been, so it would be useful for us to decide now what our role will be over the summer period. I hope that we will play a very active role even before the formal committee stage of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:09.5583737+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 104346,
      "EditedText": "I very much agree that we should try to arrange for the minister to appear before us, sooner rather than later. At the beginning of the consultation period, it will be useful for us to hear from the minister exactly what the thinking behind the bill was. That will inform our deliberations as we move forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:09.5583737+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 104354,
      "EditedText": "First, I want to reiterate the point that Brian made. It is important that we do not attempt—I do not think that it is possible—to draw a clear line between school and further education, in particular. There is a huge overlap.Secondly, I want to return to the issue of children, an important aspect of which is the child-proofing of legislation. I would like some clarification as to our ability to consider legislation that has been introduced by other ministers or departments, so that we can assess the impact on children. For example, if there were a family law bill, would we, as a committee, be able to scrutinise it to determine whether it was child-friendly?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:09.5583737+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 104363,
      "EditedText": "I strongly agree with that. We could become involved in the issue of the closure of rural primary schools at a reasonably early stage. I have lodged a parliamentary question on that, although I have not received an answer yet. It is an area where there is need for reform."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:09.5583737+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104416",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 104416,
      "EditedText": "I will make several points, which refer to education simply because of the imminence of the bill, although they can also be considered more generally. My first point, which Michael touched on earlier, is about where the committee will meet. We should decide to travel around the country as much as possible to ensure that we hear as broad a range of opinions as possible. Perhaps the clerks could come back with a feasibility study on how that could be done.My second point relates to whom we should take evidence from in the early stages of the committee. We should decide to meet at least once during the recess and the purpose of that first meeting—or only meeting, depending on what we decide during the recess—should be for us to be briefed by the minister on the draft education bill. It is important that our future discussions and meetings with others are informed by the minister's and the Government's thinking on that bill.I strongly suggest that we have discussions—either during the recess or very soon afterwards—with the groups and individuals that submit responses to the draft bill, so that we understand how the arguments are developing and are aware, before the bill comes to us for scrutiny, of the views of all the different interest groups.My third point relates to our ability to co-opt people on to this committee. I would be very much in favour of the committee exercising that right, so that we could co-opt, for example, representatives of the key interest groups when we examine the education bill. It is important that we allow those groups to have a direct input and I would like us to discuss that possibility very soon, if not today.My final point is that the committee must ensure that it exercises its role properly. One of the recurring problems with legislation on education has been the tendency of Governments to make announcements without adequate consultation. To allow the committee to do its job properly, we should insist on being briefed in advance of any major statements by the minister on any of the areas within our remit. I am not sure of the extent of our power to demand pre-briefing, but we should make it clear that we expect it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4270101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Education, Culture and Sport Committee<br />Tuesday 29 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 2125,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 104312,
      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 09:30"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2126,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 104314,
      "EditedText": "Members will recall that when a member has lodged a statement for the \"Register of Members' Interests\" about an interest \"which would prejudice or give the appearance of prejudicing his ability to participate . . . in proceedings of the Parliament relating to any particular matter, he shall, before otherwise participating in those proceedings, make an oral statement in those proceedings declaring the nature of that registrable interest.\" I invite each member to make a declaration of registered interests that are relevant to the remit of the committee as it is understood at this meeting. Members will do so in alphabetical order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C104315",
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      "ID": 523
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2126,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 104315,
      "EditedText": "I have placed nothing in the register that would prejudice my contribution to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C104317",
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    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 104317,
      "EditedText": "I used to work for the BBC, and both my parents worked in education and are still active on various committees. I will mention that again in future if necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104318",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
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      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2126,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 104318,
      "EditedText": "I am a member of the Library Association and I am also a life member of Friends of Historic Scotland, which concerns itself with Scotland's built heritage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104320",
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 2126,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 104320,
      "EditedText": "I have nothing to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 104321,
      "EditedText": "Poor soul."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 104324,
      "EditedText": "Jamie Stone is not here yet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
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      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 104327,
      "EditedText": "Everyone is as clean as a whistle."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2126,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 104328,
      "EditedText": "All Kilmarnock supporters can now stand up and leave."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 2127,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 104332,
      "EditedText": "Mrs Mary Mulligan was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 2127,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 2127,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mrs Mary Mulligan): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 104334,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much. That is the easiest election that I have had for a long time. I very much appreciate the opportunity to chair the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. Much work lies ahead of us. An education bill is about to be lodged; I am sure that many of us will take great interest in that and will be keen to ensure that we set about delivering the schools and the standard of schooling that our children in Scotland deserve.I am also aware that the committee will include sport and culture in its remit. There is a great tradition in Scotland of promoting our own culture, and I hope that we will be able to assist those around the country who do so, to broadcast it to the rest of the world.I hope that we can help to make great improvements in the standard of excellence in sport and in people's involvement in the sporting world. It is essential that we see sport as an opportunity for everyone, not just for those who excel at it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.465263+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 104340,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Nicola that we should be proactive; that should extend to the committee having a \"say how\" role. I know that all the committees have said this, but this committee has, it seems, more reasons than most to meet in places other than Edinburgh, to take evidence and to discuss matters. Education, culture and sport are Scotland-wide issues. It is important that we allow maximum access to the committee, and that we investigate and discuss throughout the country.Last week, I was at a reception at which John McCormick, the controller of BBC Scotland, described BBC Scotland as the most important cultural organisation in Scotland. The BBC has a wide-ranging cultural remit, and I hope that at some stage in this meeting we can discuss whether it will be possible both to take evidence from the new director-general of the BBC, who will probably be the most important cultural figure in Scotland, and to consider other broadcasting issues—including the annual report of BBC Scotland, which is due to be published this week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104341",
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      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
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      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 104341,
      "EditedText": "We have the power to call people to give evidence to the committee and to discuss with us any issues that are within our remit. Broadcasting, as we all appreciate, is a reserved matter, but that does not preclude us from investigating issues on which we want to comment. We might come back to that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C104350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 104350,
      "EditedText": "Can the convener clarify where community education will fit into the committee structure? Will it be within the remit of this committee, or that of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee? Obviously, that is still at the development stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 104351,
      "EditedText": "I am being told that community education comes within the remit of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. I must say that that is slightly different from what I was told last week, and I know that there has been some discussion surrounding the issue. I am sure that the committee clerk, Gillian Baxendine, will check and report back to us. Many of us have an interest in that area and would like early clarification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 104352,
      "EditedText": "Our remit is described as school and pre-school education. Because of the higher still programme, there will be a great deal of interplay between colleges of further education and secondary schools. To what extent will members of the committee be able to discuss the interface, as there is a possibility of turf wars regarding the teaching of over-16s?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4808878+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 104357,
      "EditedText": "As a founder member of the committee that considered the position of children in Scotland, I am keen that all legislation should take account of its effects on children. We should take that on board at a very early stage—we will have a significant contribution to make.Do members have any other points to make about legislation, and about the education bill, in particular?I hesitate to raise this, given that there are teachers present, but perhaps we should acknowledge that teachers, through their unions and organisations, will have a important contribution to make. Formal procedures are in place for that, but this committee will welcome any representations from teachers' groups and any assistance that they can give us in shaping the bill. It is worth recording that at this stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 104365,
      "EditedText": "It would reassure many parents and contribute to the quality of education in Scotland if the committee were to consider a way in which we could examine the issue at an early stage—that is a matter for the clerks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 104369,
      "EditedText": "We are all aware of the huge remit of the committee; the suggestion of setting up sub-committees is helpful. We should ask the clerks to look at the feasibility of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2044E178P334C104374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jenkins, Ian",
      "ID": 2044,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Jenkins: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 104374,
      "EditedText": "We have a massive remit, which relates to the way in which people live their lives every day—it affects all their waking hours, one way or another."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 104376,
      "EditedText": "I am particularly interested in the traditional work that is happening at a local level, such as community arts and arts in which local people participate and I would like some information on that. I know that the Scottish Arts Council has some stuff, but it is much a wider issue. I do not know how much information is available, but I am sure that the issue is relevant to this committee, given that it is about active citizenship, community participation and the role of children in community arts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 104379,
      "EditedText": "We could meet him during the festival."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 104380,
      "EditedText": "I have no problem with what Mr Russell says. However, I do not know why we have to single out BBC Scotland when there is another large broadcasting organisation in Scotland. I would be happy to agree to meet the relevant people, but it is only fair to give the new director-general time to bed in. We would be delighted to see him or his representatives and representatives from Scottish Television to have a wide-ranging discussion about the nature of broadcasting output in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 104381,
      "EditedText": "With respect to Ian, there is a big difference between the BBC and STV. I am very happy to investigate the activities of commercial television in Scotland, but we would have to consider a whole range of organisations beyond STV, which would get us into the issue of the reserved power of broadcasting. I am specifically focusing on the cultural role of BBC Scotland, which is, by all definitions, much bigger than that of the independent television companies, although those companies might persuade us otherwise.Brian Monteith raises a good point—the key players in broadcasting matters are likely to be in Edinburgh during the television festival and I wonder whether consideration could be given to that timing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 104385,
      "EditedText": "Greg Dyke did not find much difficulty in seeing William Hague to give him reassurances. I am sure that he will be able to see us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 104387,
      "EditedText": "William who?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 104390,
      "EditedText": "Michael will be too busy at the Ayrshire arts festival."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 104391,
      "EditedText": "We could nip up for the evening. I am sure that they will sell tickets to see Ian Welsh."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104392",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 104392,
      "EditedText": "Now that we are all regularly in Edinburgh, I am sure that we will all take advantage of the festival and partake of the culture available then.The committee is not scheduled to meet during the recess, but the television festival takes place towards the end of August. It may be possible—and helpful—to schedule a meeting to coincide with that. However, if the new director-general takes up his position later than that, a meeting with him might not prove so easy to organise. We will ask the clerks to organise something with the BBC and the festival organisers."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 104398,
      "EditedText": "We are not absolutely certain. However, if it is not, we could raise the matter with whoever is responsible for it. We will investigate and report back to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2051E74P295C104399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Ian",
      "ID": 2051,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ayr"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ian Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 104399,
      "EditedText": "I raised the question of the archive earlier. I think that we should claim the issue if no other committee is willing to."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 104403,
      "EditedText": "We will try to find the information that has been requested and to have some input to that issue. Does anyone have further points or feel that we need briefings from anyone else with which to start our work?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1754E157P235C104407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Peattie, Cathy",
      "ID": 1754,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Falkirk East"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Peattie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 195.0,
      "ContributionID": 104407,
      "EditedText": "I endorse that. People could go to a folk festival every weekend in Scotland if they had a mind to—and loads of time. It is important that we promote work that is actually happening; with respect, many things happen in Scotland apart from the Edinburgh festival."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1930E59P76C104409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Monteith, Mr Brian",
      "ID": 1930,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Monteith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 104409,
      "EditedText": "In response to Ian Welsh's comments, I must go on record as saying that this committee has a role in listening not just to teachers, parents and children, but to taxpayers. In relation to education, publicly funded culture or sport, we must ensure that services are delivered effectively and with value for money.After hearing Ian's comments, I look forward to his support for the transfer of Jordanhill primary and secondary school to the local authority sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104413",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 104413,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that the committee will seek to work with all its partners and to listen to all those who can contribute to best value in Scotland, which is very much our aim. Best value will also guarantee us value for money. Over the next four years, our practice as a committee will be to ensure that we speak to as many people as possible who are affected by our remit and take on board their views."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C104419",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 104419,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the idea that the committee should have the chance to move about the country. In committee, most of our work will probably be on education; sub-committees, if we form them, will look at culture and sport. However, if we go somewhere, we should try to take in all three aspects of our work and we should try to make the best use of our time. In particular, if we go to the north of Scotland, we should try to meet for longer than the usual couple of hours so that we can hear the broadest range of opinion.I would also welcome the appointment of advisers. I think that a number of groups would like to be represented and, if we are to be truly effective, we will again have to hear the broadest range of opinion. Having advisers is clearly one way of doing that. I hope that the clerks will be able to make some initial suggestions as to who those advisers should be. We could add more names if we felt it appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1775E171P452C104420",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McLeod, Fiona",
      "ID": 1775,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fiona McLeod: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 104420,
      "EditedText": "As Karen said, it is important that we invite people to join us on the committee—and not just when we think that they have something to say. They should take part in our discussions and inform our decisions week by week. I am thinking of groups such as Children in Scotland and the Scottish Library and Information Council. There will be times when, thinking that they know something, we will invite them; but there will be plenty of times when we will not know that they know something. If they are here more or less permanently, they will be able to inform our decisions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1837E108P186C104421",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mulligan, Mary",
      "ID": 1837,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Linlithgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 104421,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments on that point or on the way in which we will operate? How do members feel about meeting during the recess?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C104422",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 104422,
      "EditedText": "We have already talked about the possibility of meeting during the television festival. However, 10 days or a fortnight after the education bill is published—to give the minister a chance to get his thoughts in order—it would be appropriate for us to talk to him and to ask him questions. After that, the most appropriate time for us to meet would be during the television festival."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2068E171P304C104424",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Stone, Jamie",
      "ID": 2068,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 230.0,
      "ContributionID": 104424,
      "EditedText": "I dare say that other members did this while I was wending my way down from the uttermost regions of the north, but I ought to declare formally that I am a director, in the sense defined by the Companies Acts, of the Highland festival, which clearly has an arts input."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C104426",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 234.0,
      "ContributionID": 104426,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 10:27."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:01:25.4965139+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 2128,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 104397,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise a slightly narrower point about libraries, which was also mentioned in my discussions with senior librarians at the University of Glasgow. That university has one of the biggest official documents departments of any university library in Scotland and is also the official centre for European Parliament documents. However, the librarians are very concerned at the lack of access to Scottish Parliament documents. They have subscribed to the Official Report, but their budget does not run to committee reports and they are concerned that they will not build up the specialism that they have with Westminster and the European Parliament. They have been told that they have not been provided with some of those reports because the documents are available on the internet. However, for research purposes, documents taken off the internet are not sufficient because they are not primary sources. That sounds like a technical matter that we could deal with easily. Is it within our remit?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4270101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104418",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 2128,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 2128,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 104418,
      "EditedText": "Yes, it would."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:15.4270101+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1848E217P504C104325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 29 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 523
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Education, Culture and Sport Committee",
      "ID": 118
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-29T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 2126,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 2126,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Sturgeon, Nicola",
      "ID": 1848,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 104325,
      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-29T02:00:09.5583737+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 5962,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 5962,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 231510,
      "EditedText": "I have not registered this interest, as it is not required to be registered, but for the purposes of this committee it should be noted that I am a member of the Committee of the Regions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 5962,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 5962,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 231512,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure whether this is of interest—I merely take the precaution of mentioning it at this stage—but I am still a member of Perth and Kinross Council. Issues relating to councils and structural funding may be considered to be of interest to me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 5962,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 5962,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 231513,
      "EditedText": "I, too, may have an interest. As a journalist, I hope that in future I will be paid to write articles about Europe. I have been doing that for years, so not much will have changed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C231514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 5962,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 5962,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 231514,
      "EditedText": "As a farmer, I should declare a pecuniary interest, because my business is in receipt of European funding."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 231522,
      "EditedText": "I accept that there will be times when we need to look at things in detail, but the issue that I raised is relevant. We should not underestimate how bogged down we could get in totally irrelevant European detail. For example, the documents that have arrived that, technically, we must examine include the agreement between the European Economic Community and the Swiss Confederation on the carriage of goods by road and rail and a council decision on the extension of the Common Position 96/635/CFSP on Burma/Myanmar. Those things are clearly of no specific interest to us. However, you are right that, to ensure that we are truly reflecting the needs of the people who elected us, we will have to examine the issues that affect Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 231525,
      "EditedText": "There is a wealth of experience on this committee, which I hope we can use to deal with issues as positively and constructively as they are—in my experience—in Europe. The convener mentioned the low turnout at the European elections and the fact that the Scottish people are a little disillusioned about Europe and switched off by it. We have a unique opportunity to turn that around. We have the opportunity to reflect Scottish views in Europe, but also to reflect European views in Scotland. I hope that we use those opportunities. I am pleased that two areas in particular have been included in the remit of the committee. Point 4 of the briefing sets out the committee's duty\"To undertake pre-legislative scrutiny of proposed legislation referred to it by the Parliamentary Bureau.\"That gives us an important opportunity to influence things before they are set in stone. I am also pleased that, as point 10 of the briefing states, we have the opportunity to consider petitions referred to us by the Public Petitions Committee. That, again, gives us an opportunity to liaise and work with the Scottish people and to reflect their interests. I am excited by the committee's remit and I look forward to the work that we can do for Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 231527,
      "EditedText": "Can we make a decision—should we call you convener or chair?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ContributionID": 231528,
      "EditedText": "Convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 52.0,
      "ContributionID": 231530,
      "EditedText": "All MSPs have the right to attend the committee. Mr Harper has the right to attend and speak if he so wishes, but he does not have the right to vote."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 58.0,
      "ContributionID": 231533,
      "EditedText": "Finally and briefly, although we have a huge work load, and although it will take us a fair amount of time to work out how to select and compartmentalise what we are going to do and how we are going to do it, we must not lose sight of the fact that Europe is a dynamic confederation of peoples. If we, as Scotland, claim the right to be able to add something to Europe, we must consider the big picture. We have a huge work load and there will be terrible pressure on us—especially as this is the first Scottish Parliament—to do our very best and to do it earnestly. However, we lose sight of the big picture at our peril—Europe will come to mean absolutely nothing to the people who live in it and who turned their back on it at the elections. We cannot ignore the big picture."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 231536,
      "EditedText": "People must have a realistic idea about Europe. We all love to be good Europeans but we do not have a clue what that means."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 231540,
      "EditedText": "The standing orders detail the remit, but we have flexibility in our interpretation of it. As long as we are agreed on the direction that we want to take, we can move things forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 231542,
      "EditedText": "I will talk about MEPs separately in a minute. If we feel that our ability to promote Europe and to influence debate is being impeded, we can look again at the remit. However, that would need to be done through the Parliamentary Bureau; we cannot change the remit unilaterally.It is early days yet, and there is an aspiration to do the things that committee members have mentioned. Let us see whether we can do those things adequately and properly within the terms that have been laid down. If we find that difficult, or if we are failing, we can, by all means, make proposals to change the remit.I would like to move on to discuss some of the detail of how we will carry out our remit. Bruce has mentioned a range of important topics for further briefing. I think that it will be necessary for the committee to meet during the recess. We will have to consider a number of issues, not least structural funds. Having looked at the officials' holiday patterns, I suggest that we should try to meet again some time in August and that I should arrange an agenda with the clerks, bearing in mind some of the suggestions that have been made this morning. Are we agreed?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 231544,
      "EditedText": "It might be helpful for committee members to understand the key current priorities in Europe. The European Commission produces an annual legislative programme; there is one in place for 1999 and the 2000 programme is under discussion. If the programme could be brought to the next meeting, members could be informed and advised about the current debate in Europe. That would give us a useful opportunity to think ahead about how we want to influence the debate next year.The Convener indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 231548,
      "EditedText": "Yes.Ben Wallace has now arrived. We had the opportunity earlier to declare any interests. Does he have anything to declare?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 231551,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, convener. I almost called you Hugh—I presume that we can all drop the formal approach and call each other by our first names.I was a bit worried when Maureen spoke because I thought that she was talking about moving the committee around Europe, so I am pleased to find that we are confining our activities to Scotland. I support the concept that we should be accessible to people in other parts of the country. Given the current division of objective 1 funding, the two island communities in my constituency would be interested in our deliberations.I was concerned about a question that arose from what Irene said. I read the briefing paper assiduously last night—I hope that I will be able to do the same with all future briefs—and it struck me that the main issue for the committee will be selectivity. The convener, and Irene, mentioned that we must prioritise our work. Does the convener have any guidance for us on his role—and the role of the committee in general—in that process? I know that safeguards are built in and I am impressed by the prospect of a European database that could be accessed by all MSPs and by the Executive. However, if we are to fulfil our function and prioritise our work for maximum impact, the process by which we will achieve that is important. A scatter-gun approach will not work in Europe or in Westminster."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 231554,
      "EditedText": "We have the opportunity to invite a range of people to address the committee and I hope that we will consider doing that. We also have the opportunity to bring in advisers or specialists to assist the committee's work and, at the next meeting, we might start to consider how to do that.In terms of networking, we also want to engage with the Executive, possibly informally at this stage until we have a clear view of how the committee will work. While we are considering the European agenda, we need to have discussions with the Executive to ensure that it is working in the same way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 231555,
      "EditedText": "Does the range of people that we can invite to discussions or to give evidence include UK ministers, officials from UK departments, MEPs—who may be in the European Executive—and members of the European Commission?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1752E75P296C231557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Cathy",
      "ID": 1752,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 231557,
      "EditedText": "The briefing paper gives us a focus to remind us that our priorities ought to be the issues that are particularly important to Scotland and that have a greater relative significance to Scotland than to the rest of the UK. That is helpful, and if we do not bear it in mind, we could disappear under a mountain of paperwork and the electronic mail that we will receive once the database—which I welcome—has been set up.It is also important to support the idea of a sifting process. The briefing paper suggests that the convener and deputy convener would be involved in that process and that would be quite useful, but we should bear in mind that we can also use the committee members' expertise.I want to mention the structure and functioning of the committee. While I support the idea of taking the committees out and about, I am a wee bit anxious about that notion and I want to avoid the situation in which we are all arguing to take the committee to our areas. I admit that I am interested in taking the committee to Ayrshire. We are right to talk about moving the committee when relevant, rather than merely for the sake of moving it.I am also anxious about the amount of time that we will spend in committee. I would like some indication of how often the committee will be scheduled to meet. Will there be additional sub-committees over and above that? How will we physically manage that? We should also consider the links between this and other committees. For example, I am on the Transport and the Environment Committee. There are clearly important links with that committee that could be quite useful. We will all have a huge work load and we need some indication of how often we might be required to meet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 231560,
      "EditedText": "Some of what you are suggesting could usefully be dealt with in the seminar that was mentioned earlier. A range of bodies would be invited to that and we could talk about how the links have developed and who does what."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 231564,
      "EditedText": "Aye. I have been called worse."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231570",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 231570,
      "EditedText": "I am quite happy with the short-term programme you have outlined. We have a good starting process.I would like to come back to some of what I said earlier about the longer-term issues. I know that we cannot deal with that in August or, perhaps, even in the autumn, but it is something that the officials need to start thinking about in terms of information being provided for us. The Treaty of Amsterdam was signed in 1997 and was ratified only a few months ago. It dealt with enlargement and with bringing the EU closer to its citizens.Huge issues are involved: how the institutions will work; how enlargement will affect Scotland; how decisions will be made; the role of the European Commission; how the institutions will be brought closer to citizens; and funding. At some point, we will have to tackle those subjects in a deep and meaningful way and try to understand their implications."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 231576,
      "EditedText": "I would appreciate it if we could arrange an informal meeting—not a formal joint meeting—with the Scottish MEPs. I met the ones that the Conservative party now has but I have not met the others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 231578,
      "EditedText": "The press release says that the committee has 13 members. Are there not 12 members?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Wednesday 23 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 5961,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5961,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 231506,
      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 09:32"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Wednesday 23 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 5961,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5961,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 231508,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 5962,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 5962,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 231511,
      "EditedText": "I am in the same position. In my declaration of interests I registered my membership of the Committee of the Regions, but I want to bring it to the attention of this committee—although, as Mr Henry says, that is not absolutely required."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 5963,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 5963,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 231518,
      "EditedText": "Is the committee content for Mr Henry to be elected as convener?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2223E203P342C231521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Scott, Tavish",
      "ID": 2223,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Shetland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tavish Scott: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 231521,
      "EditedText": "Mr Convener—I am not sure which title you intend to take, so I will call you Mr Convener for now—I concur with your opening remarks, apart from one point: the minutiae of legislation. In many areas, the details are extremely important. I can think of some matters that affect my constituency in Shetland about which there is real concern and debate on the need to scrutinise European legislation and proposals adequately. We need to balance the way in which the committee works to ensure that we concentrate not only on the wider picture, which it is right to do, but on the smaller points and issues, which are important in other ways—for the salmon industry in Shetland or for fish-processing businesses throughout the north-east of Scotland, for example. It is also important to concentrate on how we can maximise European Union funding for Scotland. As Maureen will know, there has been debate this morning about objective 1 funding for the Highlands and Islands. In my part of the world, that is an extremely important matter and we should pay particular attention to it. In setting out the way in which we conduct ourselves and receive briefings, it would also be useful to arrange regular, though informal, discussions with members of the European Parliament and with other opinion formers, decision makers and people interested in the wider European debate. I see that, importantly, there are representatives from the Scottish representative office here today. I encourage the convener regularly to arrange informal meetings with them so that we can keep ourselves as informed as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 231523,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure whether the questions that I have in mind relate to the remit or to the role of the committee, but they are milestones for the future and we need to consider them. Like Tavish, I believe that we need to ensure that we do not lose sight of which details are important. I am not sure what the process for that should be, but we need to identify them. We also need to agree how we are going to liaise with MEPs to put forward Scotland's cause. I listened with interest yesterday to Rory Watson talking about the briefings that MEPs receive. Whatever the information is, I would like to get my hands on it so that I can understand more about the issues. The briefing may be the explanatory memoranda prepared by relevant Whitehall departments, about which the clerks have told us; if so, that is all well and good. However, I would like to know whether there is a difference and how soon we will be able to get our hands on that sort of material. I was also interested to read in the briefing material about the agreement that is being considered between the Scottish Parliament and the Westminster Parliament. We need some sort of concordat that will determine the relationship between us and Westminster and how we deal with specific pieces of legislation that affect the United Kingdom and Scotland in particular. What work has been done on that draft concordat and when will we see it? I am also concerned about early-warning systems. Margo has a particular interest in those so I will leave her to deal with them. There are on-going issues regarding the reform of EU structural funds. We are expecting the results of that process in mid-June, which is not far away. An early briefing to the committee on the implications of the changes would be useful. More important, for the longer term, we need to address the institutional challenges and questions that face the EU. In particular, what institutions will be required for the enlargement of the EU following the Treaty of Amsterdam? How will decisions be made and who will make them? What will the role of the European Commission be after enlargement? What developments can we expect in relation to a European army, a European police force, immigration policy and the impact of the Kosovo crisis, for example? All of those issues will impact on where Europe goes. Another key question raised by the Treaty of Amsterdam is how we can get closer to our citizens. Fundamentally, how are we going to get involved in the debate on how the EU is funded? All of those questions are zooming around in my mind. I do not have an answer to any of them, but I need to talk about them with my colleagues here and begin to get an understanding of them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 56.0,
      "ContributionID": 231532,
      "EditedText": "MSPs have the right to come to this committee, and I hope that some will take the opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 231535,
      "EditedText": "I would like to build on what Margo said about making people in Scotland much more aware of Europe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 231541,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise a similar point to the one that Sylvia made. The standing orders may be set in stone and unalterable but, following on from what the convener has said, I am quite happy provided that we can interpret the standing orders widely. The remit does not give us the latitude, within the European framework, to have influence and to lobby on behalf of Scotland and there is nothing about how we will liaise with MEPs and discuss issues with them. The remit talks about the \"wider European constituency in Scotland\",but that may or may not include MEPs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 231546,
      "EditedText": "I am more than happy to discuss alternative locations for meetings. From my previous work with COSLA, I know that we will need to address specific issues in the Highlands and Islands. While we could accommodate the suggestion of alternative locations, I do not want the committee to become a travelling circus, with every second meeting in a different location. If an alternative location aids the committee's work and helps the wider body in Scotland to appreciate that work, by all means we should consider it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 231547,
      "EditedText": "If the proposed meeting was at a relevant time for the area concerned?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1916E38P70C231549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wallace, Ben",
      "ID": 1916,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 231549,
      "EditedText": "No, I am afraid not."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 231550,
      "EditedText": "Any formal meetings of the committee have to be agreed in advance by the Parliamentary Bureau, but we will deal sensitively with the location of meetings.Allan wishes to speak now, then David."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 231553,
      "EditedText": "I very much welcome the proposal for a seminar to broaden the discussion so that we can get a better idea of who, in Scotland, is interested in Europe. The body of interest is broader than we often think and, in my experience of Europe, I have come across groups that have small offices, or small representations, or that fall under larger umbrella groups. Part of the seminar exercise would be for us all to understand who in the Scottish community is already directly interested in Europe and what they are doing. We would also discover what they, and others, identify as their current issues with Europe.Some of that relates to the work of other committees and, as Tavish mentioned earlier, there are already a lot of issues in farming and rural activities. It would be helpful to know what the main European issues are for business and civic Scotland and what we can do on those issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 231556,
      "EditedText": "We can certainly invite a broad range of people, but whether they can attend is another matter, as many such individuals have a heavy agenda. At times, we may want to invite some of the people that Bruce Crawford identified, but, as with other issues, selectivity will be the key point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 231565,
      "EditedText": "Me too. I am thinking about what Sylvia said. Would it be possible to have a list of the organisations—which we trust the clerks to identify—that receive European funding of some sort? It may be invidious to mention them by name, but I can think of a couple of outfits that receive some European funding and that would be quite pleased to link in some way to the functions of decision making and scrutiny. That relates to what Cathy asked about how we get help in deciding what goes to the top of the pile. Some of those organisations may be able to help in that respect because they already get specialised or special interest briefings, or they have links established that we might duplicate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 231566,
      "EditedText": "There are bodies who have, as you indicated, some expertise in European matters. Some of them are involved with wider representative bodies. I would hesitate to say at the moment that we should do as you suggest because there is a huge number of bodies in receipt of European funding, all of which have different expertise. We really do not have the time to invite every body in Scotland that receives European funding. It would frighten people to realise how significant European funding has become. If there is a way that we can tap into the expertise that, for example, the voluntary sector has accumulated, and that of the housing sector and the private sector, we would want to avail ourselves of that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 231571,
      "EditedText": "We will need specific briefings on some of those matters from people whom we bring in to do that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 231574,
      "EditedText": "I endorse what you say, convener. Since reorganisation, many unitary authorities, such as North Ayrshire in my area, have developed excellent links with schools in Europe. Educational exchanges have been a positive development of the past three or four years. In my constituency, a school that could be considered to be in a deprived area is linking up with a college in Pisa in Italy to do art project exchanges. There are further excellent examples of such initiatives throughout Scotland. We should promote that sort of exchange and make information available to authorities that do not know how to take up such opportunities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 231579,
      "EditedText": "There are 12 members on the committee but 13 places."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1932E185P482C231580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Crawford, Bruce",
      "ID": 1932,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Bruce Crawford: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 231580,
      "EditedText": "A process is under way to resolve that situation by the end of the week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231582",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 231582,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 10:25."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />European Committee<br />Wednesday 23 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 5961,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 5961,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 231507,
      "EditedText": "Good morning everybody. I start by notifying members that, in the event of fire, the clerking team will ensure that they are shown safely out of the room.I welcome members to the first meeting of the European Committee. Does everybody have today's agenda?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 5962,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 5962,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 231509,
      "EditedText": "I am the oldest member of this committee—looking around the room, I find that hard to believe—and so have been given my moment of glory. I am charged with presiding over the first two items of business: the declaration of members' interests and the election of a convener. Once a convener has been elected, I will hand over to that person. Dr Ewing and Ben Wallace send their apologies.I must ask members whether they have any interests to declare. Members will recall that, under the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999,\"Where a member has a registrable interest in respect of which he has lodged a statement under article 4(2)(a) which would prejudice or give the appearance of prejudicing his ability to participate in a disinterested manner in proceedings of the Parliament relating to any particular matter, he shall, before otherwise participating in those proceedings, make an oral statement in those proceedings declaring the nature of that registrable interest.\"If members have anything that they want to mention, they should not hold back, even if it does not seem important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1962E35P56C231515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 5962,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 5962,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Mundell, David",
      "ID": 1962,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 231515,
      "EditedText": "I am an employee of British Telecommunications Scotland, which has extensive European interests."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 5963,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 5963,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 231516,
      "EditedText": "We move on to the second item. On a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau, Parliament has decided that the party whose members are eligible to convene this committee is the Labour party. I invite the person whom the Labour party has nominated as convener to identify himself or herself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 5963,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 5963,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Hugh Henry: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 231517,
      "EditedText": "I have been nominated by the Labour party to put myself forward for the position of convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C231519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 5963,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 5963,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 231519,
      "EditedText": "Hugh Henry was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 5963,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 5963,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Hugh Henry): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 231520,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I hope that this committee will be hard-working and of interest not only to its members, but to Parliament and to wider Scottish society. The European agenda is facing difficulties at the moment; the recent European election had the worst turnout on record. We need to address the gap between the voting record in Scotland—and, indeed, in the United Kingdom as a whole—and that in other parts of Europe.It would be wrong to underestimate the increasing influence that Europe has on our lives. It impinges on everything that we do. That was evident even from members' declarations of interests. Among us are journalists, who write about Europe frequently; members of local authorities, which are affected by Europe financially and by European legislation; and representatives of private companies, which seek to enter the European market and bid for European contracts. Various sections of our community, including the farming community, are recipients of European funding. Europe is increasingly important, and I hope that this committee will reflect that in its work.This committee is intended to be non-partisan in its operation. I hope that we can work together on issues that affect the Parliament and Scotland, addressing matters that we regard as significant. I hope that our work will have an effect. This committee should not become bogged down in the details of obscure European legislation. It should reflect European policy and seek to influence it, both directly and through the United Kingdom channels in which we operate. We have a big agenda that we should not underestimate. How we operate as a committee will be determined largely by the collective efforts of members. If we choose to concentrate on the minutiae, I fear that we will achieve little. If we are prepared to set our sights on the bigger picture and to seek to influence debate, there is much that we can achieve. I am delighted to have been chosen by the committee as convener.In a moment I will open up the debate on our remit and topics for further briefing. Before I do so, I want to repeat that we have a unique opportunity to be a voice for Scotland in Europe. In the rest of Europe there is genuine interest in what we are doing. As I indicated earlier, I am a member of the Committee of the Regions, and there is genuine excitement among representatives of all European countries about the creation of this Scottish Parliament; I know that members of other European institutions will say the same.Representatives from Scotland are warmly welcomed in the corridors of power in Europe. That will reflect on us and we will be considered and listened to with interest by other European bodies and by those elected to the various European institutions. A lot is expected of us, but there is also a warmness and a willingness to listen to us. I throw it open to the committee now to discuss the committee's remit, taking into account some of the comments that I have made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 231524,
      "EditedText": "Those are all legitimate points. I was going to come on to topics for further briefings as the second part of this item, but a number of matters have been raised that we will have to consider; I am sure that others will be added to the list. At the moment, however, I want to look at our broader remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 231526,
      "EditedText": "The point about legislative scrutiny is essential. We need to get Scotland's voice heard before Westminster and Whitehall form opinions. The timing is critical. We must also hold the Scottish Executive to account. That role should not be underestimated, especially in relation to some of the matters that Bruce mentioned."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 50.0,
      "ContributionID": 231529,
      "EditedText": "Mr Convener, like Irene, I am interested by point 4 of our remit. If we believe that it is part of our remit and duty to ensure that people get to love Europe or at least have a more realistic understanding of Europe, we must concern ourselves with—if you like—the pre-emptive strikes. We need to get involved as soon as the European Commission proposes legislation. There is quite a time lag before the legislation becomes real, and it is during that time that we get newspaper stories about bendy bananas and terrible straight Euro-bananas, with pictures to cut out and compare. I am being jocular, but it is a serious point. In Scotland, there has been no concerted effort to counter the terribly negative spin that is sometimes put on the European Commission's more imaginative proposals that have never come to legislative fruition. That is something that we could productively do; we are not going to disagree about that.As well as the other things that this committee will require to do, I am concerned about our relations with other committees in the Parliament, which may think that we are shuffling off our work load on to them. However, if we are to have any sort of joined-up politics—please excuse the phrase—we will have to work closely with, for example, the transport committee and with any committee that is considering energy. I hope that we will call on some of the expertise in the Parliament—for example, that of Robin Harper. He is not on this committee, but a great deal of what he might have to add to the Parliament's work would also add to our understanding of many of the big challenges that are facing Europe. I am not making a plea, but I know that we have an arrangement whereby we can co-opt people or ask them to come along especially."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 54.0,
      "ContributionID": 231531,
      "EditedText": "No, but debates in this committee would not be toe-to-toe stuff."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 231534,
      "EditedText": "Do we all agree that we want this committee to be a powerful voice for Scotland in Europe, reflecting the work of the Scottish Parliament? Do we also agree that we have a special role in scrutinising in detail relevant European legislation, especially before Westminster confirms any particular views? As Margo says, we need to promote the European agenda positively so that people understand some of the benefits of engagement with Europe and are not negative about Europe. Do we agree that we have a role in scrutinising and in holding to account the Scottish Executive, which we will do on behalf of Parliament, and that we need to forge links in the European Union with relevant bodies such as the European Parliament and Commission, and with other representative bodies? We will also consider the links that Tavish mentioned. Do we all generally agree?Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 231537,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. That has a lot to do with, for example, education for citizenship. I assume that this point would come under point 13 of our remit about liaising with the wider European constituency in Scotland. Can the points in our remit be altered? I do not think that point 13 says enough about the aspect that Margo mentioned and with which we all agree. Perhaps the remit should be slightly altered to mention promoting—although I do not know whether that is the right word—Europe in Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 231538,
      "EditedText": "We get very po-faced when we talk about \"deepening appreciation\" and so on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 231539,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but it is that aspect that I do not think is quite included in point 13."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 231543,
      "EditedText": "I will also ask the clerks to come back with some suggestions on scrutiny and how we can set priorities. There are things that we will need to scrutinise, things that other committees will need to scrutinise, things that the Parliament will need to scrutinise and things that may not need to be scrutinised at all. For future reference, it would be helpful if we set things out in tables; if we want to alter the clerks' recommendations, we can do so. We should do that at an early date, and we will have some suggestions ready for the meeting in August. In August, we will also have to examine the issue of structural funds.I hope that there will be regular contact with MEPs. I am anxious to set up a liaison process for this committee not just with MEPs but with some of the wider representative organisations in Scotland. For example, Scotland Europa reflects the interests of a wide range of Scottish society—trade unions, the voluntary sector, the private sector, the academic institutions and so on—and I hope that we can engage with it. I would like us also to engage with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, which not only has a significant interest in Scottish society, but has carried out a lot of first-class work with which the Scottish Office and other bodies have been closely involved. Either at our next meeting or at the one after it, we need to discuss how we liaise with other bodies.In the autumn, I would like us to convene some sort of Scotland in Europe seminar to discuss how we can take the lead in allowing those other bodies to play a full part. We do not want to replace the work that those bodies do; we want to give them, where relevant, a proper voice. I would like to invite interested parties and representative bodies to meet us to discuss with an open mind how we can start to develop our agenda over the next few years."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 231545,
      "EditedText": "We should consider moving the committee around the country to a certain extent, rather than always meeting in Edinburgh. I realise that there would be cost implications, but it would be helpful if we had a meeting in the Highlands, for example. If we want to promote Europe in Scotland, we must take the committee to different parts of the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 231552,
      "EditedText": "In terms of both European legislation and Scottish legislation that has a European dimension, I hinted earlier that I would like the clerks to produce recommendations about the categories into which legislation might fall. It would then be for us to accept or reject those recommendations. We need assistance with setting the legislation into some kind of order.As far as the main issues are concerned, priorities are a matter for this committee and I hope that we will start the process of setting priorities as early as the next meeting. As Irene indicated, we can consider what the big issues will be over the next year and spend some time examining them.We can draw upon other models. For example, the House of Commons works in a different way to the House of Lords, which goes into much more detail and examines some of the broader issues. I have presented evidence to both Houses and the differences are interesting.Priorities will be a matter for this committee and we will have to participate in determining them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 231558,
      "EditedText": "We have already addressed the issue of location. I wondered whether Allan was making a bid for Millport as the standing home of the committee.This will be one of the busier committees and it could well be that we will have to meet weekly. We must wait and see. We have agreed to meet sometime in August. I do not propose that we meet for the sake of meeting, but given the volume of work that is before us, and that there are tentacles into other committees, we will probably have to meet more frequently than most. I do not think that we should decide now, but we can assume that the committee will meet very frequently."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Sylvia Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 231559,
      "EditedText": "That links to networking and possibly to a briefing paper. I was trying to think of an action point for the next committee meeting. Would it be possible to get a paper examining the links with Europe? That was suggested as the starting point in the briefing paper we have here.We should think about the organisations in Scotland that have direct European links. I think another committee member has mentioned that, and you mentioned Scotland Europa, convener. There are the other interests, including business interests, which obviously have a direct link with Europe. Cathy's point was that we ensure that we always emphasise the Scottish element. It might be a good starting point for the next meeting if we could have lists from these three areas: organisations with direct links in Europe; Scottish agencies that link with Europe; and those businesses, and so on, that have less direct but substantial links with Europe."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1873E89P171C231561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Dr Sylvia",
      "ID": 1873,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Stirling"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 231561,
      "EditedText": "The committee could link in with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 231562,
      "EditedText": "Yes. We could look at the possibility of an outline paper that would help us to work towards that process. I do not want that to replace hearing about the other bodies and what they do. The other thing that we will need to look at—whether through a briefing paper or a discussion—is the role of EU institutions and how they work. As a committee we need an understanding of the labyrinthic way that some of the institutions operate. That could be added to the programme.We have already mentioned networking and we have talked about members of the European Parliament and of other representative bodies. We can examine that. Allan made a point about how we decide priorities and we can also start deciding whom we want to invite to the committee. Is there a time when we will want to bring in someone from the UK Parliament, the European Commission or other bodies?We will also need to examine the role of Scotland House in Brussels fairly soon. We need an early briefing on who will have access to it and how it will operate. We need to know what it will do, how it will liaise with this committee, when it will be open and what its various functions will be. Maybe Stephen Imrie could look into that for the next meeting.I take Allan's point and the points of others. I do not want this to become a travelling circus, but given the nature of the work, there will be a time when we will need to meet with representatives of some European bodies. We must arrange it so that time is usefully spent by getting as many people together in one place as possible, or by meeting them over as short a space of time as possible. We must look at establishing those links on behalf of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C231563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 231563,
      "EditedText": "May I call you Hugh, Mr Convener?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1782E69P279C231567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Oldfather, Irene",
      "ID": 1782,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Oldfather: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 231567,
      "EditedText": "Most European funding tends to be distributed through partnerships, even in the private sector. The way to access the expertise in which Margo is interested would, perhaps, be through Strathclyde European Partnership and East of Scotland European Consortium."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C231568",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 231568,
      "EditedText": "I want to go back to Cathy's point about linking with other committees and with our colleagues in other parts of the Parliament. I noticed that there was a suggestion in the briefing paper—and whoever wrote it has produced a very good paper—that we appoint reporters, or rapporteurs as I suppose we should call them in the European Committee. They would liaise between this and the other committees and could be drawn from those of us who sit on other committees. I, for example, sit on the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee and Cathy has an interest in transport. I do not know what committees other members of this committee sit on. Would it be possible to have some ideas put together about how that might work, if at all, in practice?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231569",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 231569,
      "EditedText": "That is something that we will need to look at. It has been mentioned in the documentation and it is a system that works well in Europe and to which there will be some advantage. As with everything else, we must proceed cautiously and find out what our agenda and work load will be like. We must examine the areas of expertise and find out what experts and advisers we can bring in so that we can evolve towards that. It will have a place in our deliberations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1840E82P158C231572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macmillan, Maureen",
      "ID": 1840,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Maureen Macmillan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 231572,
      "EditedText": "I wondered about bringing in young people through links to the education committees. If we are to promote Europe, we should use the willingness of young people to be involved with Europe. There have been good educational schemes that made links with Europe but a lot of them seem to have died off. Have we a role in promoting that sort of thing, or is our role more to examine legislation?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 231573,
      "EditedText": "Our work is not just about examining legislation and considering how European policy will affect us. As Margo said earlier, it is also about having a wider influence. We have to set a positive agenda and encourage people to form bonds and relationships across Europe. Much of what is happening in Europe can improve the quality of life in Scotland, but it is a two-way process and the reverse can happen. Sometimes, Scotland is a bit slow to proclaim what it does well. There should be an exchange of views.We should encourage other committees to do what you are suggesting, Maureen. We might want the Education, Culture and Sport Committee to examine the role that young people could play. There have been many excellent and imaginative schemes throughout the country—I know of some in my area and in the west of Scotland. Such schemes are the way forward because, with all due respect, it is not the people on this committee who will make Europe work, but the young people in the communities that we represent. They have a great role to play in the Europe of the future."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 231575,
      "EditedText": "Is there any other business?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231577",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 231577,
      "EditedText": "We have already said that we want to establish links with the MEPs and we will come back with proposals in August about how to do that. During the next month or so, very little will happen.If there is no other business, I would like the committee to endorse a press release that has been prepared. I will circulate it now. It says that we have met and that I have been elected as the convener and it sets out some of the work that we will do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2029E47P167C231581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "European Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1329
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "European Committee",
      "ID": 129
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 5964,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 5964,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Henry, Hugh",
      "ID": 2029,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Paisley South"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 231581,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee endorse the press release? Members: \"Yes.\" I thank members for their attendance and look forward to seeing them at the next meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:06.3372814+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C154931",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 154931,
      "EditedText": "I have a contract at a college of further and higher education. I tendered my resignation on 7 May but I have not yet completed my notice. I want to register that interest just now, but I will withdraw it at the next committee meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C154932",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 154932,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure whether this is relevant to the register of interests, but I am a former employee of the Open University and my partner works for a scientific research institute in Scotland. As the committee covers the science base, it might be necessary for me to register an interest because of my partner's occupation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C154934",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 154934,
      "EditedText": "I have to declare an interest as managing director of Eastern Holdings, which is an Edinburgh company that is mainly concerned with the distribution of motor vehicles. I intend to remain a director of the company, although, from September, I will do so in a non-executive capacity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C154935",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 154935,
      "EditedText": "I should declare that I remain a partner in my firm of professional solicitors in Glasgow. I retain a nominal involvement in the firm; in the unlikely event of any conflict arising I would disclose that appropriately. I have other interests: I am a director of the Prince's Scottish Youth Business Trust, a post that is unremunerated; I am member of the University of Strathclyde court, unremunerated, and I am also the vice-chair of the West of Scotland Advisory Board of the Salvation Army—also unremunerated."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C154937",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 154937,
      "EditedText": "I would like to declare that I am a partner of AK Farms, which operates some farming units in Rothesay, Isle of Bute."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154941",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 154941,
      "EditedText": "I am thinking that I should get them to declare an interest as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C154942",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 154942,
      "EditedText": "I have declared an interest as an employee of the General, Municipal, Boilermakers and Allied Trades Union, which will cease at the end of the month; I will not carry on with it after that. A constituency plan agreement is in place; the union supports the constituency with a small amount of money. That, too, has been registered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C154946",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 38.0,
      "ContributionID": 154946,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but we do not have to repeat what we have said about our interests at every meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154953",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 3520,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 3520,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 154953,
      "EditedText": "Is that acceptable?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154956",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 3520,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 3520,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 154956,
      "EditedText": "Is anyone absolutely opposed to that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C154957",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 3520,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 3520,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 154957,
      "EditedText": "Mr John Swinney was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154959",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 3520,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 3520,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener  (Mr John Swinney): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 154959,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, Margo. The greatest point of debate in the SNP group this week was whether Margo would vacate the chair at the appropriate moment. I thank the committee and look forward to working with all its members. The committee system is one of the most critical parts of the process of establishing the Scottish Parliament. It must be an informative part of that process. We are in the fortunate position of working on a very exciting area of policy."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C154967",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 154967,
      "EditedText": "No, do not do that. Laughter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154971",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 154971,
      "EditedText": "I will make a local point in relation to what Margo has said—I am sure that it will be reflected by other people's experience. Perth College, which is in the constituency adjacent to mine, has some stiff financial decisions to make about its provision of services. As Marilyn said, there is a tendency in a lot of deliberations to skate over the further education sector. We must avoid doing that at all costs."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C154973",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 154973,
      "EditedText": "It is hard to disagree with anything that has been said in this meeting. I should have declared an interest in community education, as my wife is a community educator in Fife. I have seen some of the desperation that she meets among people who find it difficult to get on the economic ladder. I hope that this committee can do something for further education. The UK Government missed an opportunity by not letting further education colleges run the new deal.This committee must dispel the cynicism of the business world towards politicians in general. By linking employers and trade unions through this committee at an early stage, we will indicate that we will be a power for good rather than for delay."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C154978",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 154978,
      "EditedText": "I would like the committee to ask some fairly rigorous questions during our deliberations. I am sure that all of us who have local enterprise companies in our areas are pleased to see extra money being allocated to them. However, we need to ask how successful those companies—and any other bodies that are receiving money to create jobs or training—are in attracting new jobs and new industries. Industries in areas that are doing quite well often complain that they do not get support because everybody concentrates on allocating money to reverse crises. Sometimes, companies that are doing quite well but which could do with a bit of extra help to expand and take on more people are ignored. We ought to be able to ask rigorous questions about that. The commercialisation of science and the way in which we use our science base must also be examined. Is everybody just dashing along the road to a science park without thinking about how successful it will be in creating new industries? We need to analyse the situation and examine how successful such initiatives are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154982",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 154982,
      "EditedText": "I want to draw this discussion to a close shortly and begin to consider where we go from here.The issue that George Lyon raises falls into the category of subjects that may be within the remit of more than one committee. Margo MacDonald mentioned funding for the further education sector and George is raising the issue of applications for European funding support for the Highlands and Islands. We have to decide what the committee has the capability to do, in the short term and in the medium term, and how we can best handle our work load.We shall come to those issues shortly, but first I shall take any further general points."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154984",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 154984,
      "EditedText": "I take that point on board. I would like to think that, as a result of our deliberations, we can produce some work that reflects on the plethora of organisations and approaches in this sector and can clarify the situation for individuals who are trying to gain access to training. If that is an output of our work, it is a very good output to have under our belt. The points arising from Mr Wilson's contribution are among the things that we will want to consider as a committee."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154986",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 154986,
      "EditedText": "Are you still learning?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C154990",
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      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 154990,
      "EditedText": "Turning to the enterprise aspect of the committee's work, there is a tremendous need for, and a huge obligation on, the committee to be taken seriously by Scotland's business community. We cannot assume that that will be the case, just because we are a group of MSPs who decided to form the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. I hope that two things will happen. First, it would be sensible to prioritise the bodies that we will consult and from which we will seek information, because there is a danger—with all the other pressures on us—that the committee will get bogged down in administrative work. It might be helpful to prioritise as quickly as possible the organisations that we will consult.Secondly, I was interested to read in the description of committee location and travel that while formal committee meetings must take place at a location approved by the bureau, there is facility for informal meetings to take place throughout Scotland. I believe firmly that if we are consulting some of the business organisations in Scotland, such as the Federation of Small Businesses or Scottish Enterprise, there will be much merit in trying to conjoin that with a visit to a member of the business community or to a workplace. Two things will happen: it will be more meaningful to us and it will be more significant to the member of the business community or the group that we are consulting and from which we are seeking guidance or information."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154994",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 154994,
      "EditedText": "Let us draw some of this together. I have jotted down a number of issues from the many contributions that will go into the Official Report. Reports from yesterday's committees were published today. I must compliment the official report on generating reports so promptly. We will see our report tomorrow and we can study the detailed contributions of members then. The main strands of thought that have arisen are business involvement; the recognition of the further education and community education sectors and the link to social inclusion; the role of the enterprise network and an evaluation of its performance; the Highlands and Islands dimension, particularly the issues of an immediate nature that were raised by George; and the other short-term issue, the funding of the further education sector. Those were the main discussion points.In terms of where we go from here, we are close to the recess and I will take members' views on what they want to be done over the summer. Other committees have decided to meet over the summer, so it is up to us to have a discussion on that issue.We have an extensive list of areas of interest on page 6 of the committee remit document that we received from the clerks. We would all benefit—and I want to make sure that all committee members can take part in discussions on the same basis as everyone else—from having more detailed background briefing papers from the clerks on almost all the subject areas of interest, so that early in the summer recess we receive a paper, or an e-mail if it suits, on the subject areas that are before the committee.Perhaps we should get together towards the end of the recess to take some informal soundings on the areas of interest. That might mean hearing from the director of strategy of Scottish Enterprise or Highlands and Islands Enterprise, or from business organisations or representatives of the further education sector. When we come back after the recess, we could have a formal hearing with the minister to get his side of the argument in terms of where the remit is going. At that stage, we could decide our areas of inquiry.We shall probably not decide our detailed areas of inquiry until early September. In gauging the opinion of the committee, I sense that that may be later than some members wish, but it might be difficult for us to agree and define today the areas of inquiry that we want to undertake. Notwithstanding that, we could ask the clerks to do some research for us on the issues that George raised about Highlands and Islands funding and that Margo raised about the further education sector, so that we have a standing start on those subjects when we return after the recess. I will throw those suggestions open for discussion, which I will draw to a close in just over 10 minutes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C154998",
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 154998,
      "EditedText": "I agree that we need to pause and reflect on how we go forward. Much has been said about our credibility. It will come down to whether we make a difference in enabling people to influence the decision-making process.I get a bit worried because we all have our hobby horses and particular interests, which has come out in our initial anxiety to make a contribution to the committee. You mentioned that there were several main points, Mr Convener. They were main points of discussion—but are they necessary priorities that we would wish to pursue? The other aspect that we must develop is how to give the organisations that we have mentioned, such as the Scottish Trades Union Congress and the Federation of Small Businesses, an opportunity to shape the agenda of the committee, its priorities and our eventual work programme. If we go up and down the list of organisations and issues that have been mentioned by us, we will not go forward but go round in circles. If we force those organisations to accept the responsibility of participating in the process, they must decide what their priorities are as well, and we should try to pursue those priorities with them. We must have a structured approach to our programme; at this point, getting that right is more important than how often we meet."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155001",
    "Meeting": {
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    },
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      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 155001,
      "EditedText": "Submissions should be on one side of A4. We really do not need any more thick briefing documents from organisations. There will be a lot to take in."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C155003",
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 155003,
      "EditedText": "It sounds eminently sensible for us to establish our priorities with the benefit of the background briefings and being able to hear from the people directly concerned. I would add Labour's concern—and indeed all-party concern—about the division of objective 1 funding. I have a personal interest as two islands in my constituency might qualify. If we get some progress on that in the interim, so much the better."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155006",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 155006,
      "EditedText": "We can tackle that issue in due course. I thank members for their contributions. The clerks will be in touch about arrangements for paper or e-mail briefing over the summer and for a meeting towards the end of the recess. I thank the clerks for the preparation that has gone into the meeting today."
    },
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 23 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
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      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 154936,
      "EditedText": "Thank goodness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C154938",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson (Cunninghame North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 154938,
      "EditedText": "Given the remit and functions of this committee, I want to declare my prospective directorship of a charitable company called the Radio City Association, which has been formed to convert a derelict bingo hall into one of the nation's first healthy living centres. It is an unremunerated post."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154943",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 154943,
      "EditedText": "I think that that concludes that business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C154944",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 154944,
      "EditedText": "Do we have to declare these interests again at the beginning of every meeting of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154947",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 40.0,
      "ContributionID": 154947,
      "EditedText": "We do not have to go through the litany at the start of every meeting, although members might want to refer to something that is relevant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C154948",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 42.0,
      "ContributionID": 154948,
      "EditedText": "Can I ask a question?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154949",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 44.0,
      "ContributionID": 154949,
      "EditedText": "Excuse me, but this is the first meeting in which the oldest member has been asked questions. Yes you can."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C154955",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 3520,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "ID": 3520,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 154955,
      "EditedText": "I second that nomination."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C154961",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
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      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 154961,
      "EditedText": "It is important that this committee interacts and enters into dialogue with business and business interests. In the run-up to devolution and the Scottish parliamentary election, there was scepticism about what the Scottish Parliament could do for the business agenda. Given that this committee oversees the main drivers or tools that can be used to help business to build a better Scotland and to provide better opportunities for the Scottish business community, it is essential that we bring those organisations on board quickly to work closely with us and to consult us regularly. There is a long list of people who want to speak to us, but we should address the business agenda and its priorities quickly. Given the link between higher education and the enterprise remit, it is important that businesses are seen to have an influence on the debate. We can ensure that the right skills and requirements for the business community are delivered in higher education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C154964",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 154964,
      "EditedText": "I would like to follow on from the point that Fergus made. Another area of significant concern, particularly to small businesses, is the payment of rates on a property that cannot be disposed of. If that property remains occupied for more than six months, the owner begins to pay rates at 50 per cent of the assessed valuation even if they are neither earning from it nor have any activity operating from within it. I strongly support what Fergus said, and I think that we should consider that issue in conjunction with the issue that he mentioned. We also need to examine the way in which we ask business communities in Scotland to function. We are aware that there have been huge changes as well as huge opportunities, and that the small business community is finding it particularly difficult to contend with some of the wider aspects of planning such as consent for development, an area in which we are beginning to get disparity in operation. That is posing a real threat to some of our established small urban and village communities. It is a broad issue to which there is no simple solution, but its consideration is relevant to the jurisdiction of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C154965",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 154965,
      "EditedText": "John—is it all right to call you John, or should I call you Mr Convener?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C154976",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 154976,
      "EditedText": "As we all know, extra funding of some £220 million, replacing objective 1 funding, was secured for the Highlands and Islands at the Berlin summit. That is welcome. Local enterprise companies have told me that the bidding process for that money is about to get under way. Does this committee have any input in or right to be consulted on the key priorities for allocation of that funding? This is a critical time, as decisions that are made now will be set in stone for six years. I think that we would like at least to be briefed on what the key priorities are—although I hope that we will have some input as well. What is the view of the convener on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C154979",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 154979,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased that these two areas—enterprise and lifelong learning—have been put together. Obviously, as other members have said, the links between education and enterprise are important, as is the whole business of training to get people into work. We must also examine training for people who are in work. It was suggested that this committee might look at such matters as the knowledge economy, globalisation and e-commerce. There are specific training issues for people while they are in work, in subjects such as information technology; we can assist both large and small businesses to gain the skills that they need to remain competitive and to ensure that their employees are well trained. Over time, I hope that we will consider those matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C154981",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 154981,
      "EditedText": "The indication that the local enterprise companies have been getting from Highlands and Islands Enterprise is that there is already prioritisation on the bids that are likely to be accepted, and the issue of how to write bids that are likely to be successful has been raised with me. The inference that the LECs were being given was that infrastructure was not the sexy project that would manage to secure a successful bid. I have to ask who is defining that prioritisation. Can we have some sort of explanation as to why that is the case? It is not a European decision; it has been made by the Highlands and Islands Enterprise network, acting as the funnel to receive all the bids, process them and make decisions as to which ones will be successful. That is a European matter, but if we are getting the clear steer that certain projects are ruled out before we even start, that is a matter for concern, certainly in my part of the world, because we have an opinion on the matter. There is also a time scale to consider, because the bids are being sought at the moment, and that sets in stone what the agenda will be for the enterprise companies in terms of spending over the next few years.How that money is spent is crucial for the economic development and future prosperity of large parts of the Highlands and Islands, some of which are very fragile and extremely poor, as recent economic surveys have shown. Could we have some input into that matter? There is a time scale issue to consider, and I wonder what the convener thinks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C154983",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 154983,
      "EditedText": "I return to the point that you made, Mr Swinney, about the single gateway for the new deal and its benefits for the training system. Although the Parliament, understandably, has been preoccupied with tuition fees to the exclusion of other higher and further education issues, I am encouraged by the fact that we have been discussing the formulation of training policy without reference to tuition fees. I would like our committee to bring together all those involved in the formulation and implementation of training policy—local enterprise networks, local authorities and further education colleges—to introduce co-operation and partnership so that the nation's future training policies are formulated with all those interests in mind. I see that as both a short-term and a long-term objective of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154987",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 154987,
      "EditedText": "Aye, still learning. Although I agree with what Allan Wilson said about training, I think that we must encompass, in our own appreciation of the ethos of this committee, that it is about learning, and about learning for the sake of learning. One of the downfalls of the whole training programme—no matter whether it is called the new deal or something else—has been that some people have always felt that they were somehow conned because they trained and did not get a job at the end of it. I would like folk to think that they are going to learn. Even if they do not get a job at the end of it, at least they will have learned something. People must appreciate the value of learning and knowing things. We have an increasingly older population. If we really mean it when we talk about lifelong learning, it is not about just training younger people for jobs or training difficult-to-employ people for the work force; it is about keeping society together by sharing the technology that leads to greater knowledge and understanding. I am sorry to sound a bit airy-fairy about this. I am not airy-fairy about it at all; I would make everybody learn."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154989",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 154989,
      "EditedText": "With regard to Marilyn's points concerning the practice in Fife, there might be an argument for asking whether that best practice is used everywhere. I suspect that it is not. Lessons can be drawn from that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C154992",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 154992,
      "EditedText": "I will follow up some of the things that Marilyn said. She is right; learning for its own sake is valuable, but mostly people go into training with a view to getting a job. The committee could examine the fact that areas of the economy have skill shortages. People are desperately seeking jobs, and jobs are desperately seeking people. One of the difficulties that people have in certain areas is that employers will not take them because they do not have experience, even though they have the qualifications. Anything that can be done to address that issue—improving ways in which people can find employment and assisting employers in filling jobs—is worth while."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C154993",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 154993,
      "EditedText": "Following on from what Annabel Goldie said, we are faced with a range of issues. So how we will prioritise? Timing is a factor in some of the matters that were raised, so what is the decision-making process to identify priorities?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C154995",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 154995,
      "EditedText": "I agree with all that, but perhaps in addition to the matters that we touched upon today we could have papers on the other two main areas that are devolved to us—financial assistance to industry and tourism—so that next time we meet we might be in a better position to prioritise within those subject areas the areas that are most pressing for our attention. There is an obvious linkage between what we have discussed on tourism and financial assistance to industry. If we had general background papers on those issues, at our next meeting we would be better able to prioritise the areas that we should address."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C154999",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 154999,
      "EditedText": "I echo what Duncan said. We want to find out what the FSB and the STUC think should be done. We could do that quite simply by writing to all relevant bodies, those identified in the papers and others that members could suggest to the clerk, and asking them what they think should be the remit and content of the discussions of this committee. After all, that would include everybody. We should decide what can be done, so I refer to specific matters. I echo George's concern that the committee has an opportunity for input into the decision on how the objective 5b and objective 2 funding is used. I met Jacqueline Wright of Lochaber Ltd, the local enterprise company, on Monday, so I know that there is strong support for the money to be used for infrastructure projects—on various important roads throughout Scotland, for example. I suggest that if we are to meet fortnightly, we could have a meeting in Inverness in September, when we could meet Highlands and Islands Enterprise and perhaps also take up Annabel's suggestion of visiting a local business. I could suggest several to the clerk if that meets with approval.My second specific proposal is with regard to the clear concern of business organisations about the rates revaluation process. We should look at that quickly, otherwise it will be too late. It may already be slightly late in the day to do what we would really like; none the less, if we are to be taken seriously, we should show business that we want to hear what it proposes for the business rates revaluation. I propose that we invite contributions from all interested bodies in Scotland on that, on the rating of unoccupied premises, and indeed on rating as a whole. We should also plan a committee meeting in September or October to consider the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:02.9509109+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154929",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee<br />Wednesday 23 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 3518,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3518,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 154929,
      "EditedText": "Good morning and welcome to the first meeting of the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee. Due to an emergency meeting—Interruption. Mr Lyon has arrived, just as I was about to excuse him. Now we are absolutely complete. David Davidson has also joined us, not as a member of the committee, but by exercising the right—as determined by the Parliament and the bureau—of any member to attend a committee meeting. He cannot vote, but we are delighted for him to attend.Due to an unforeseen mistake on the part of the people who made the arrangements, I have been invited to chair this meeting. Rumour had it that I was the oldest member, but I am not going to quibble over that at the moment. Before we start, I must say that in the event of fire, the clerks will escort us quickly and smartly out of the building."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154930",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 154930,
      "EditedText": "We will start by taking the matter of registering interests very seriously, because this is an important committee of the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154933",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 154933,
      "EditedText": "I will jump in where you have left off. My partner is still a member of the board of Scottish Enterprise. Although he has submitted his intention to stand down, he will not come off the board until October. In that respect, like Elaine, I have a tenuous link to the whole thing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154939",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 154939,
      "EditedText": "The only interest that I have declared in the register is my continued association as a member of the Westminster Parliament, which will conclude in two to three years' time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154945",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ContributionID": 154945,
      "EditedText": "I will take advice on that, but as Annabel said, if the description of a member's interests changes, we would all expect that to be declared at the start of the relevant meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C154950",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3519,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 154950,
      "EditedText": "I was going to say that I have a constituency-based agreement with the Co-operative party. I did not think that it was relevant but, in the light of other members' declarations, perhaps I should declare that as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154951",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 3520,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 3520,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 154951,
      "EditedText": "As the committee knows, the Parliament decided, on recommendation from the bureau, that this committee would have a convener from the Scottish National party. Any members of the SNP willing to stand should identify themselves."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154954",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 3520,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 3520,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 154954,
      "EditedText": "I am willing to accept nomination."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154958",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 3520,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 3520,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 154958,
      "EditedText": "I congratulate you, Mr Convener, and I demit my temporary chair and power."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154960",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 154960,
      "EditedText": "I want the committee to look purposefully at the areas of policy within the remit of the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning. I hope that we can add value to the debate that takes place between the committee, as an organ of Parliament, and the Executive.Several topics of interest are suggested in the committee remit and functions paper that the clerks helpfully provided for us. There are three main groups. First, there is employment and economic development. Secondly, there is the strategy for the future of further and higher education. Finally, the umbrella over all that is the link between the business sector and the higher education sector and the ways in which we can maximise the opportunities that that delivers for the Scottish economy.When the Government announced the structure of its ministries, there was debate about why the Ministry of Enterprise and Lifelong Learning had been established. It is an important part of policy to recognise that there is a direct link between the business and economic development sector and the higher and further education sector. I encourage this committee to consider how that linkage, and the opportunity for the development of links between those two sectors, may be established. In the committee's remit and functions paper, the clerks have provided us with a formidable list of organisations that have something to say to us about these issues. Fergus mentioned the presence at today's meeting of representatives of the Federation of Small Businesses and the Forum of Private Business. If there are representatives in the audience of any other specialist organisations that we have studiously ignored, I ask them to accept my apologies. There is a large body of organisations in Scotland with which we can engage in dialogue in the course of our work, and I am sure that many of those organisations will be delighted to do so.It remains for us today to examine the remit that has been provided for us by the Parliament, and the information that has been provided by the clerks to support that. We should have some initial discussions about what we would like to do within this policy area and the work that we intend to carry out. I open that up to the committee for discussion, and will take general views from members before drawing some of those strands together towards the close of proceedings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C154962",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 154962,
      "EditedText": "Just as important is the issue of social inclusion. We must address further education, remembering that it includes community education. We should address the skill seekers programme. There are many ways of funding people who are entering further education for the first time. I would like us to consider all types of education. We should consider joined-up policies on issues that concern people who are taking their first steps back into education and examine how we can best support the social inclusion agenda through training and helping people to get their first job or training place. Many people are not participating in jobs, training or education, and I would like this committee to consider how joined-up policies at a fundamental level can get more people interested and through their first steps. There will be an important link between the social inclusion agenda and the remit of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154966",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 154966,
      "EditedText": "Call me what you like."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154968",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 154968,
      "EditedText": "I will answer to John."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1901E57P277C154969",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Allan",
      "ID": 1901,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cunninghame North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Allan Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 154969,
      "EditedText": "I associate myself with your opening remarks, John, which I thought were apposite and got to the heart of what this committee is about. I believe that we have a role to play in maximising business opportunity in this country and beyond. There may have been raised eyebrows elsewhere when the link between enterprise and lifelong learning was mentioned, but that is something in which I believe whole-heartedly. I know that you share my views on the issue, John. If we are to be successful in building a knowledge economy in Scotland, it is important that we build on the links between higher and further education and the business sector. This committee can play a pivotal role in that.I, too, saw the long list of organisations we are scheduled to consult, and I share everybody else's view that this committee should consult others as part of its deliberations. The Scottish Higher Education Funding Council is mentioned in the committee's remit paper, but there is no reference to the relatively recently established Scottish Further Education Funding Council. I know that colleagues in further education would want to be involved in consultation, as part of this committee's deliberations, as much as those in higher education.The other arresting thing in the comprehensive list in the committee's remit and functions document, which I stayed up late last night to read, is the division of responsibility between this Parliament and Westminster, and the reference to devolved and reserved matters. It is important that we establish links early on with our counterparts on the Trade and Industry Committee at Westminster and—as has been mentioned elsewhere—with our counterparts in the Welsh and Northern Ireland Assemblies, so that we can maximise Scotland's business opportunities within the wider UK market."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154970",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 154970,
      "EditedText": "Given the severe financial difficulties of most colleges of further education in Scotland, is it not a matter of some urgency for this committee to find out their state of readiness? We can pontificate until the cows come home about the nice, wee courses in tourism and so on that we would like colleges to provide, but if they do not have sufficient resources we will simply add more pious thoughts to what they have heard over the past few years. We should start with the colleges of further education."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1986E53P206C154972",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNeil, Duncan",
      "ID": 1986,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Greenock and Inverclyde"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McNeil: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 154972,
      "EditedText": "There is an issue here about access to learning and about developing the knowledge economy. We should examine why colleges such as Perth College are in such trouble, while colleges in my constituency are expanding, enjoying record levels of funding, and recruiting extra staff to enhance the quality of their courses. Small businesses have been mentioned. My experience is in larger industries such as the whisky industry. In such industries, there are interesting examples of best practice in how major companies are reacting to the threat of globalisation and developing human resources—the partnership culture. Integral to that process is the provision of opportunities and access to training, promotion and everything else. Those companies are achieving big results from developing human resources; evidence of that should be presented here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C154974",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 154974,
      "EditedText": "My experience is, of course, in Fife; the college for which I work, as well as other colleges in Fife, all received extra funding for further education and for bursaries. There is growth in further education.The problem in further education is that many different agencies are involved. As well as community education, which gives people their first steps in further education, there are enterprise companies, which fund or manage the new deal full-time education and training model and manage the skill seekers funding. We must consider the various types of funding for people who want to take their first step on the ladder. There are now qualitative as well as quantitative measures of further education. I welcome the move away from bums on seats and towards quality education and training in the further education sector. Although we have started the work that needs to be done, there is a lot still to be done. Working with this sector is an important part of this committee's work. Further education has sometimes been the cinderella service. It should receive the kudos that it deserves because that is so valuable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154975",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 154975,
      "EditedText": "You mentioned, Marilyn, the role of further education colleges in delivering services, and the role of local enterprise companies. One of my major views about economic development in Scotland is that there are too many players—I do not know whether that view is widely shared. There is a need to consider how services are delivered, as there is such a plethora of choice that it is not always easy for people who are trying to gain access to training or further education to know where to go. It may help to consider some of the lessons of the new deal. One of the strongest aspects of the new deal is the single gateway, but some of the details are not so strong. Clarity is important for those who are trying to gain access to the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154977",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 154977,
      "EditedText": "Decisions on European funding will be taken by officials at European level, with the participation of ministers in the UK and Scottish Parliaments. Our committee could certainly examine these issues, particularly in relation to the Highlands and Islands as they fall within the remit of the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning. There is no impediment to our hearing views and coming to conclusions that we could put into the process, even though decisions are taken elsewhere.George has made a useful intervention. I suspect that there was the first outbreak of turf war in the Scottish Parliament yesterday when Rural Affairs Committee members—Elaine is on that committee—made the legitimate point that they have a perspective on the Highlands and Islands, which are excluded from their remit; Highlands and Islands policy is one of Henry McLeish's responsibilities and therefore falls within the remit of this committee.I propose to discuss with the Convener of the Rural Affairs Committee how we approach the review of Highlands and Islands policy to ensure that we have a sensible way forward. We do not want two committees considering the same material, with all the chaos and bureaucracy that that would entail. That is an issue that I want to flag up to the committee today, and one that I will resolve with Alex Johnstone, the Convener of the Rural Affairs Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154980",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 154980,
      "EditedText": "I would like to go back and ask George Lyon exactly what he was thinking of doing. What would he have wanted the committee to do in relation to applications that might come from local enterprise companies?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1828E200P487C154985",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "MacDonald, Margo",
      "ID": 1828,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms MacDonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 154985,
      "EditedText": "We are talking about lifelong learning, and perhaps I should have declared at the outset—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C154988",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 154988,
      "EditedText": "In Fife, we had a vocational and educational training strategy whereby we did as Allan Wilson suggested, bringing together all the organisations involved, including the Employment Service and the Federation of Small Businesses. A lot of resources are being allocated to training but, as Margo MacDonald said in her comments about lifelong learning, that has to be linked to the jobs that will be available in that area if people are to go on to gain employment. When we consider training, it is worth looking at the enterprise area and working with the business community.In the college at which I work, hundreds of people want to study child care and beauty. I do not know why; perhaps they like the subject name. However, students must be realistic. If they want to have a marvellous learning experience, that is fine, but we must be honest with people who come in to do that training and tell them that Fife, Edinburgh and the Lothians can sustain only a certain number of jobs in beauty. We cannot train 560 people, because there are not 560 jobs.People want different things when they come into learning. Some come in because they want to learn, but others desperately want to change what they do and gain employment.Allan's comments on bringing people together were good. I agree that the gateway to the new deal is a good thing, because it gives people a choice, but one of the frustrations that I have is that the new deal is not available to 16 to 18-year-olds. As Allan suggested, we need to examine the anomalies by bringing different organisations together. That would be a good way to move forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154991",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 154991,
      "EditedText": "I will take one last point on the general area of the committee's work and then I will start to draw things together."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C154996",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 154996,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Allan that tourism is an extremely important area of economic development in Scotland, particularly in areas such as my constituency, so it is important that we do not lose sight of the importance of the tourism industry to the Scottish economy.This is quite unrelated, but what are your views about the frequency and the location of meetings? Are you envisaging that we visit other areas? Could the committee be based somewhere else?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3546462+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C154997",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 154997,
      "EditedText": "The advice that I have had on the frequency of meetings is that it is likely that we will meet fortnightly during the session. This committee has a vast amount of cross-membership with other committees. I am advised by the clerks that this is the worst example of members of a committee being on other committees as well. That gives the clerking team scheduling difficulties, so it is likely that we will meet on a fortnightly basis.I have no fixed views on location, other than that we must ensure that we take our work to different parts of Scotland. For example, it would be ridiculous to meet members of Highlands and Islands Enterprise in Edinburgh. Perhaps we could meet them in Tighnabruaich if appropriate accommodation was available."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155000",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 155000,
      "EditedText": "I want to draw the discussion to a conclusion as we have only five or six minutes left. Several things have come out of the discussion. Duncan expressed the view that he did not want to agree the basis of our inquiries until such time as we had heard from a number of organisations. That would mean, if we are practical about it, that we would be discussing our priorities some time in September. It would be helpful if we did that having heard from the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning as well. I recommend that we agree our priorities in early September, having heard from a number of organisations and the minister. I would also like to take up the suggestion that I write to the organisations that are listed, and any others that members wish to suggest to the clerks, inviting them to make a submission to the committee based on the remit, which we will make available. That will probably be by the end of July or early August. The submissions should then be made available to members towards the end of the recess. Drawing on those submissions, we might arrange an informal meeting before the end of the recess—although very much in the latter part of the recess—at which we would hear from a number of organisations. We could then hear from the minister and take our decisions about priorities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155002",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 155002,
      "EditedText": "Aye, to err on the side of brevity—that will be a challenge."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C155004",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 155004,
      "EditedText": "On written briefings, I suggested to the clerks yesterday that they give us some more background information on all the policy areas at some stage over the summer, so that everyone has a chance—at  leisure—to get up to speed on all the issues. The specific issues that have been raised today should be subjects for notes prepared by the clerks at an early opportunity. Those subjects include Highlands and Islands European funding; the further education sector; tourism; financial assistance to industry; and the rating revaluation issue that Fergus and Annabel raised. I am sceptical about how much formal input we can have as a committee into that last process—but our indication of interest and our willingness to look at the issue later in the year will be well noted. Are there any further points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C155005",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 3521,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 155005,
      "EditedText": "Speaking from experience, I suggest that this committee must react quickly with the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. As an employer of 500 people, one of the big problems that I have is choosing school leavers for apprenticeships, because the standard of people leaving school at 16 is appalling. When I hear the statistic that 25 per cent of pupils in the west of Scotland leave school unable to read or write, it does not give me great hope for the future generally and for the future of our businesses. An early joint meeting with the education committee to express our concern as a business committee about the standards of education would be welcome."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C155007",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 155007,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:44."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:07.3702705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C154940",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 3519,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 3519,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 154940,
      "EditedText": "I am pleased to hear that news about the Westminster Parliament. I am the proprietor of 52 Queen's Drive, Glasgow, where I practised as a lawyer. I remain a partner of Ewing & Company with a nominal involvement, similar to that expressed by Annabel.I am also a member of the Federation of Small Businesses—which, I am pleased to see, is represented today by John Downie. I am also a member of the Scottish Council Development and Industry, the Forum of Private Business—which, I am pleased to see, is represented today by Bill Anderson—and the Law Society of Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:02.9509109+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C154952",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 3520,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 3520,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 154952,
      "EditedText": "I nominate John Swinney."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:02.9509109+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1994E211P534C154963",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 818
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee",
      "ID": 121
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 3521,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 66.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ID": 3521,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ewing, Fergus",
      "ID": 1994,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Fergus Ewing: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 154963,
      "EditedText": "I support what has been said. We need to consult business as soon as possible, as George Lyon said. One matter that I hope this committee will consider early on—it would need to be early on—is the effect on business, and on small businesses in particular, of the impending revaluation of non-domestic rates. I was pleased to see that paragraph 7, on page 2 of the paper that outlines the remit of this committee, includes us in the consideration of that important matter. The revaluation process is well under way. The evaluations are being done as at April 1998, and the process will be complete by April next year. In the past, there have been grave problems because of a lack of consultation and communication between the Government, the assessors and business organisations—at least two of which are represented here today. If this Parliament is to have consultation as its watchword, it would be extremely useful for the business organisations that I have mentioned, among many others, to play a part in the process rather than learn about it as the revaluation notices hit their letter boxes. To examine this matter, we would need to resolve to take evidence on it fairly soon, perhaps early in the autumn. I hope that all the proposals that business organisations have provided will be considered by this committee in conjunction with the Local Government Committee.I would like, briefly, to raise two other matters. First, I hope that the committee will be able to examine the impact on business of the law of personal sequestration, to consider whether that law needs to be reformed. Secondly, I am pleased that we have the responsibility to consider the activities not only of Scottish Enterprise, but of Highlands and Islands Enterprise. I am sure that it will not be long before this committee is invited to meet in Inverness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:01:02.9509109+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2493",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Wednesday 23 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 35,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
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      "ID": 35,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andrew Welsh (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 2493,
      "EditedText": "As it is now 12 o'clock, we should start the meeting. I have to resist the temptation of introducing a bad Westminster habit by saying \"Order, order\". I hope that we will ignore such bad Westminster habits and introduce some good Edinburgh habits into our proceedings instead.I welcome everyone to this first ever meeting of the Audit Committee. I am in the chair simply because I am the oldest person here, which is not a thought that cheers me up. I used to go to weddings and look at the old folks—now, when I go to weddings, I am one of the old folks. Sic transit gloria mundi."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 36,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 2497,
      "EditedText": "You have described a very busy life."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 36,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 36,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 2499,
      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 36,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 2502,
      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 36,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 2503,
      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C2504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 36,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 36,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 2504,
      "EditedText": "I am a director of East Ayrshire Employment Initiative, which is a publicly funded organisation. I receive no remuneration from that directorship, but it may well be subject to issues that relate to this committee, which is why I am declaring that interest now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C2506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 36,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 36,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 2506,
      "EditedText": "I have a fairly modest interest to declare. I have been the secretary and treasurer of an angling association for the past three or four years, which gives me an honorarium of £500 a year, and I intend to continue in that post until a specific project has been completed. My wife is a partner in a draper's business but there is no issued share capital. I have nothing other than that to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 37,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 37,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 2508,
      "EditedText": "We shall move on to the choice of convener. Parliament has determined that the convener will come from the SNP members of the committee. Can I have nominations for convener?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 37,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 2509,
      "EditedText": "I nominate Andrew Welsh as convener of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 37,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 34.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 2510,
      "EditedText": "Andrew Welsh has been nominated. Does anyone second that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 2518,
      "EditedText": "The priority of most of the committees so far has been how frequently they will meet and where to meet. Does the convener intend to take the committee to different areas in the country?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 2521,
      "EditedText": "Wow! I will try to deal with some of those points.To return to Cathie's point, the other problem with meetings is where members are involved in other committees. There may be timetabling restrictions. We shall examine and overcome those problems.You mentioned VFM reports, Andrew. The list that you have is not exhaustive. One problem is that the Westminster Parliament's remit is pre-devolution; post-devolution is our concern. We are waiting as reports mature and as details amass and come to us: an event horizon is heading towards us. We do not, however, have to sit back and wait. We can be proactive and suggest to the National Audit Office topics that it would be useful to investigate. That would allow us to examine the report in detail when it comes back to us. We could help to create the agenda by making such suggestions to the National Audit Office."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 38,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 2522,
      "EditedText": "I would like advice—perhaps not at this meeting, but soon—on what the time scales would be for such a process. If we came up with a topic for suggestion, and I am sure that we all have ideas, what would the process be and how long would it take for the National Audit Office to respond? When could we get into the meat of such a suggestion?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 2526,
      "EditedText": "Would it be possible to gauge the mood of this committee and whether it wishes that proposal to be taken to the bureau? We could then discuss it at the joint committee meeting next week to get a unified finance and audit view on the matter, rather than leave the bureau to decide on it in isolation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.920637+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 2527,
      "EditedText": "Before we take a view on that, it would be useful to have more of a steer on what the detailed contents of the bill are likely to be and on what the rational split between the two committees' remits is likely to be. The convener mentioned the possibility of the Minister for Finance addressing a meeting in the near future, and I think that the whole committee would find that useful in order for us to focus on what the bill is likely to contain and on how to proceed with it in committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 2528,
      "EditedText": "We do require information. We do not yet know what the split between the remits of the two committees will be. The minister's address would help us take a sensible decision on whether the work should be divided or dealt with by one lead committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 2529,
      "EditedText": "I am immensely comforted by what you say, Convener. There is a huge danger of us all becoming involved in a paper chase. To an extent, we are dealing with the unknown, and, until we see the bill and are aware of the pre-consultative stages, we have no clear idea of what our relevance to the process is. I understand Mr Wilson's concern: he wants to lighten the burden of the Finance Committee; but we have to be responsible about what we can properly undertake, and I do not think that any of us know that until we are clearer about the content of the bill."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 2532,
      "EditedText": "How many VFM reports must we consider at the moment? Do some of them need to be considered now? Will we get a background briefing on the VFM reports that are listed? Will the Audit Committee have any input into the recruitment of the Auditor General for Scotland? Do we have any power of veto or even of interview? What restrictions will be placed on the Audit Committee in terms of on-going projects? One immediately springs to mind: the Holyrood project. Are we allowed to examine things as money is being spent, rather than once the door is shut?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 2536,
      "EditedText": "I did not get to that page."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C2538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 2538,
      "EditedText": "I think that Andrew asked if that was a full list of VFM reports and you have again indicated that those are the reports that will be available. I am especially interested in the report published recently by the Accounts Commission, \"Full house—theatre utilisation in Scottish hospitals\". Is that the full list or is there more to come? We did not get an answer."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 2539,
      "EditedText": "It is not a full list; there will be more reports. There is a procedural problem. The Accounts Commission does not normally report to Parliament but to a specific body such as a local council or whosoever commissioned the report. The National Audit Office reports to Parliament and we will operate on its reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 2549,
      "EditedText": "A day seminar would be good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 2550,
      "EditedText": "Remember that we have to fit that in with parliamentary business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 2553,
      "EditedText": "When things become impossible, we hand them to the clerk. If members tell the clerk their holiday commitments and their preferences, we will try to fit something in. I hope to accommodate everybody's wishes because it is important that we go through the learning process together as a group. SPICe can offer us that service. The programme could include advice and background information from the National Audit Office. I hope that we will also receive briefing papers from SPICe to inform us as we go along.I would like us to engage in dialogue with other legislatures. I envisage meeting, with the clerks, the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee as quickly as possible to share ideas, to learn from that committee and to help us to innovate. We are not here just to copy what everyone else does. If this committee does its work properly, I hope that it will be able to teach other legislatures. Certainly, we can learn from other legislatures and I hope to contact them, again through the clerks, possibly in writing. I would like meetings with the Public Accounts Committee to help the smooth transition from the Westminster system to the new Scottish parliamentary system. That will be taken in hand.Do members wish to raise any other topics?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C2554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 2554,
      "EditedText": "If, in our work, we discover a policy deficiency or problem with a particular organisation, are we are empowered to trace the origins of the difficulty back through the period before Parliament was established?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 2555,
      "EditedText": "Yes. The National Audit Office could do that, too. We can make inquiries and call in witnesses to give evidence. I would like our inquiries to be as open as possible. We are the public watchdog; it is our job to find out the truth and to present it to Parliament and the people. We should use every weapon at our disposal to ensure that the truth is brought out, that we find out the facts and that those facts are made public."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 2558,
      "EditedText": "In connection with that, we want to have a relationship with the people for whom we have some responsibility. You mentioned the possibility of our talking to the Accounts Commission and the National Audit Office. To some extent, they will be providing us with services and we will consider the details that they provide, but we will also to some extent be responsible for bodies such as Scottish Homes—annex A lays out a host of such organisations and the list may not be exhaustive.Perhaps we should have a programme of introducing ourselves to those organisations. They should also have the opportunity to come to us, so that we can work out a proper relationship. We should not have to turn up to ask people what on earth has gone wrong or to give an account of themselves. We should have the opportunity to conduct a more informal dialogue about how best we can work to provide value for money and the appropriate audit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 2561,
      "EditedText": "We will certainly ask the clerks to consider that. Past activities will come within our remit. This is one issue about which the committee could usefully hold discussions with the National Audit Office, and those will take place in due course. However, the corporate body holds a watching brief on the Holyrood project. As the client group on behalf of Parliament, it has ultimate responsibility and is overseeing what happens. It has also asked that regular reports be made available to all members of the Parliament; last week's debate took place at the behest of the corporate body. It is important that Parliament should be kept informed, and I agree that Parliament should be able to demonstrate good practice. The watching brief will be with the corporate body, but past accounts will be available, through the National Audit Office, for investigation by this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 38,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 2565,
      "EditedText": "When I spoke about value for money, I was referring to an auditing approach—to auditing techniques that take into account how assets are used. That is a dynamic form of modern auditing that can be very useful in ensuring value for the public. However, I take Margaret Jamieson's point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2578",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 2578,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that we cannot consider it yet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2581",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 2581,
      "EditedText": "I beg your pardon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2583",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 2583,
      "EditedText": "In that case, we should make representations to the relevant Westminster committee, as the briefing pack says that some matters can be considered subject to formal agreement being reached with the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee. There is a motion before Parliament, so we might like to think about what our view on it is, although that will depend on the outcome of any decision. That is not a party issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2585",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 2585,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we ask the clerk to give us the background information, which we will need before the committee can make a decision. It has been suggested that we consider the report on the A74-M74 PFI, which is already available. What do members feel about that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2586",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 38,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 2586,
      "EditedText": "As I said earlier, it would be helpful for all of us to get on with the reports that are already available. Although that is not really part of our remit, it would help with the learning curve."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2587",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 38,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "ContributionID": 2587,
      "EditedText": "Are we all agreed?"
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
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      "EditedText": "Yes."
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      "EditedText": "As a former senior FE lecturer, I thoroughly agree. Are there any other comments?"
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      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:44."
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Nick Johnston (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 2498,
      "EditedText": "I am a director of Eastern Holdings Ltd, which is an Edinburgh company mainly concerned with motor distribution. I see no conflict of interest between that and the work of the committee."
    },
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
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      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 2501,
      "EditedText": "To the best of my knowledge, I have no interests to declare."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2511",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
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      "EditedText": "I second the nomination."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2515",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 2515,
      "EditedText": "The third item of business is the committee's remit. I seek members' views on that issue and on other matters such as how often we shall meet and what briefing input we should receive. Who would like to start? I hope I have not stunned you into silence."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2516",
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    },
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    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 2516,
      "EditedText": "I congratulate you on becoming convener, Mr Welsh, and I hope that we will work in a bipartisan way for the good of the public purse. As you pointed out, the Audit Committee has a very important role and we have to ensure that the public is getting value for money, whether the body concerned is Scottish Enterprise, Scottish Homes or whatever. We will want to scrutinise the accounts laid before us.Mr Convener, do you propose to go through the remit of the committee, paragraph by paragraph, and seek comments on it?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2520",
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    },
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 2520,
      "EditedText": "I echo Cathie's congratulations on your appointment. I am sure you will fulfil the position with aplomb.In a moment, we will be discussing the limit to what the committee can do in advance of the full transfer of powers and with the reporting procedures being laid before the Parliament. Can we also discuss the list of value for money reports that we can scrutinise, and can you and the clerks confirm whether that list is exhaustive?My immediate point is that the Liberal Democrats have tabled a motion calling for this committee to re-examine the National Audit Office's report on the Skye bridge. Perhaps that dovetails with Cathy's point about the committee meeting elsewhere. A meeting to discuss that matter could take place, if not on the island in \"Ring of Bright Water\", then certainly in the vicinity of that project.I want to turn more specifically to the substantive issue of the finance and audit bill coming before Parliament. I also sit on the Finance Committee—I do not know if anyone else on this committee does—and I have to say that the bill falls between two stools. The Finance Committee has had a severe burden placed on it at an early stage with a very heavy programme of work to do. The Finance and Audit Committees will have a joint meeting next week to discuss those issues.I suggest that the Audit Committee seeks to take a lead in examining the bill at stage 1 and stage 2. Stage 1 is when the report from the consultation process comes before this committee. We then make recommendations to the Parliament based on that report. We could play a significant role. Once the bill reaches stage 2—once the Parliament has agreed to the bill in principle—it is considered line by line. The option before the Finance and Audit Committees is to split that role, which is a dual role. We can make the case that this committee currently has space in its agenda to take some of the burden from the Finance Committee, subject to joint agreement. That is a procedural matter, not one for party issues. We could make a useful contribution to next week's meeting, given the severe pressures on the Finance Committee.I seek advice from the convener and from the clerks on three other issues. First, does the ability to initiate legislation on audit matters come from a mandatory committee such as this? That is a long-term issue, but we may want to consider it.Secondly, as Andrew mentioned at the start of this meeting, we are lucky to have significant back-ups from the committee clerks and from the audit facilities available to the legislature. What other opportunities do we have to take on permanent advisers, as was suggested by the consultative steering group, and, perhaps more appropriately, to have independent advice on specific issues given on an ad hoc basis? Both are advisable for all committees.Thirdly, can we initiate a dialogue with the other UK legislatures and with those across Europe and, if necessary, further afield, to establish the best practice achieved in audit procedures and facilities?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2523",
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 2523,
      "EditedText": "The clerk could prepare a note on that."
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  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2530",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 2530,
      "EditedText": "I appreciate the convener's comment that we could initiate debate by seeking advice. There is a suggestion that we set up Audit Scotland, so that one body formed from different auditing organisations coming together would be accountable. Because of my previous experience, I have an interest in the whole area of value for money, best value regimes, benchmarking and so on. We may wish to examine soon the whole rationale behind that, and whether that is the direction in which we wish to go. If we drive in the direction of value for money, we want to ensure that that does not impinge too much on local organisations trying to deliver what people want. There can be central direction—through the competitive tendering process, best value regimes or benchmarking—or there can be local input. I hope that the two are not mutually exclusive, but that may potentially be the case. I do not know if that question has been explored and, since we are to represent Parliament's view of what value for money might be, this committee could proceed as I have suggested at a reasonably early stage. Best value regimes are being developed and benchmarking is on the go. We want to help the direction of that and it would be a useful exercise to hear the views of professionals in the Accounts Commission for Scotland and in other organisations on how they see their role and on the guidance that they might want from Parliament about the direction that they take."
    },
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  },
  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
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      "ContributionID": 2534,
      "EditedText": "Sorry."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2535",
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    },
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 2535,
      "EditedText": "I am having a meeting today regarding the Auditor General. Members from this committee will participate in the selection panel for the Auditor General. I am not sure about a veto, but obviously those of us who are there will be able to participate in proceedings and make recommendations, so this committee will have an input.We have quite a few VFM reports already. I refer Mr Johnston to the list on page 11 of the briefing notes. VFM reports \"The PFI contract to complete and operate the A74/M74 Motorway in Scotland\" and \"Further Education Colleges: managing costs\" are already completed and published. Reports on the \"Scottish Ambulance Service\", \"Emergency Planning for the Year 2000\" and \"Scottish Enterprise—training\" are in progress. The other reports on the list are in the pipeline."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2537",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 2537,
      "EditedText": "That is no problem at all. We have substantial subjects on which to get started. I am anxious that the committee gets down to work right away to allow members to have an input."
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 38,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 2540,
      "EditedText": "That is an area that we need to consider. The report does not cover one specific area of the health service but applies throughout it. If we want VFM in the health service, I suggest that the health service falls within our remit, which goes back to the point that was made previously."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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      "ID": 38,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 2541,
      "EditedText": "We could consider that in the context of the bill that is coming up. There will be changes; that bill may well pass health service matters to this committee and to Parliament and that is something to look out for during the passage of the bill. It was recommended that that was done and I hope that it will happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 2542,
      "EditedText": "On that point, annex C of the introductory briefing for members, under the heading \"Statutory Accounts\", does not define our responsibilities for this year. It suggests that the National Audit Office produces a report on the financial management matters arising from the audits of the 1998-99 accounts that were before it. It would be good if we could be involved in that. Many members here have not been previously involved in auditing public accounts and that would be a good way for members to be involved and break their teeth on the issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 48.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 2543,
      "EditedText": "Are you suggesting a sort of practice run on past accounts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2545",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 2545,
      "EditedText": "I will ask the clerks to look into that good suggestion.Andrew Wilson asked what advice we will have. We are fortunate to have a wide range of top professional advisers through the National Audit Office and—when he is in office—the Auditor General. He mentioned the Accounts Commission reports; they will always provide us with good background information. In addition, the Scottish Parliament information centre has offered to give us briefings and seminars either towards the end of, or soon after, the summer recess. Members should indicate, to me or the clerk, the topics that they want included in seminars, bearing in mind the fact that we are all on a swift learning curve. I think that only two members of the committee have any accounting background—they are all the more welcome for that. National Audit Office staff will give advice on technical matters—indeed, we can have a days' seminar from the National Audit Office to give us a full background briefing. The question is how we fit that in. If members let the clerk know their holiday arrangements and availability, we may be able to fit a seminar into the last week of the recess or certainly the first week that Parliament is back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 38,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 2552,
      "EditedText": "I already have commitments that week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 2560,
      "EditedText": "I am encouraged by that statement, with which everyone will agree. There is a widespread view that, because the budget is fixed, the job of the Audit Committee is to unearth things rather than to promote. Promoting best practice and shared benchmarking across the government community—local and national government—is important. The convener made the point that the committee should take an innovative role in that process. We ought to think laterally about that over the coming months, because there are great opportunities for us as a legislature to make a positive impact.I support Mr Johnston's point. The Parliament as a whole has a big job in establishing itself in this country, and that also applies to the committees. Before we start to examine other institutions, we need to show that our house is in order. At the moment the Holyrood project, which the Parliament agreed to support last week, is attracting widespread concern. Given that the project is now unstoppable—personally, I support it—the Audit Committee must have an on-going role in scrutinising it. It is our duty to ensure that the Parliament's house is kept in order. I very much support the idea that we should hold a watching brief on the Holyrood project. We understand that the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body is the client—indeed, the fact that the Parliament will be responsible for this project supports my argument—but we need to ensure that a close eye is kept on the project. Perhaps today this committee can reach consensus on that point and we can ask the clerks how we should take it forward—very soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2566",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 2566,
      "EditedText": "I return to Andrew's point about the Holyrood project. Annabel made a comment about the paper chase—at this stage we should not involve ourselves in matters that are outside our remit. We all want value for money from the Holyrood project, and I hope that we will achieve it in many different ways, in terms of what will be available to us and the people of Scotland. However, ensuring that we obtain value for money is the role of the corporate body; David Steel also gave a commitment to bring the issue back before Parliament. We have much to do and to learn, and we should wait until the appropriate time before taking on functions that are outside our remit. The corporate body should be left to get on with the job that it is supposed to be doing for the whole Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2567",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 2567,
      "EditedText": "Cathie Craigie makes a valuable point about pacing and avoiding duplication. The corporate body is directly answerable to Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2572",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 2572,
      "EditedText": "I think that Andrew is saying that it is the role of the Audit Committee to stop the corporate body going native."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2573",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 2573,
      "EditedText": "I dread to think how I am going to relay that to my colleagues. Are there any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2574",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 2574,
      "EditedText": "Could we decide which VFM reports we want to look at? Does anyone have any early thoughts?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2575",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 2575,
      "EditedText": "Does anyone have any priorities for the VFM reports, which are set out on page 11 of background paper 1 in the briefing pack?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2579",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 2579,
      "EditedText": "I presume that there is a mistake in the final column and that it should say that the possible date for consideration is February 2000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2582",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 2582,
      "EditedText": "A National Audit Office report on the Skye bridge already exists and the matter has been considered at Westminster. There could be procedural problems if we were we to examine the issue, but we can look into whether that would be feasible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2591",
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    "Time": {
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    },
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 2591,
      "EditedText": "That will not be available until September."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2592",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
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      "EditedText": "It will be available by the time we get back."
    },
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2598",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 2598,
      "EditedText": "We have been over the course fairly well and have covered a lot of territory. The clerk will consider the points that require further action. Thank you all for your attendance and participation."
    },
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      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Audit Committee<br />Wednesday 23 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
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      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 12:00"
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    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2494",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 2494,
      "EditedText": "Let us get down to business. The first item is a declaration of relevant interests and I think the easiest way to do that is to go round the table. I should first declare that I have no interests to declare."
    },
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    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2495",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
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      "EditedText": "I have no interests to declare."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2496",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 2496,
      "EditedText": "I will simply repeat the interests that I declared for the general purposes of the Parliament. I remain as a partner in my law firm, Donaldson, Alexander, Russell and Haddow, in Glasgow. I am a member of the court of Strathclyde University, which might be more relevant to this committee and which is unremunerated. I am a director of the board of the Prince's Scottish Youth Business Trust, which is also an unremunerated post. I hold a position on the Salvation Army West of Scotland Advisory Board, which is certainly unremunerated."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2505",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
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      "ContributionID": 2505,
      "EditedText": "We have now been joined by Euan Robson. Do you have any interests to declare, once you catch your breath?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2507",
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
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      "EditedText": "I apologise, Mr Robson. I should have given you a moment to get your breath back. The moral is, either arrive on time or try keep-fit courses."
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      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Welsh: ",
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      "EditedText": "Is that the wish of the committee?"
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  {
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      "EditedText": "Mr Andrew Welsh was elected convener by acclamation."
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  },
  {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Andrew Welsh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 46.0,
      "ContributionID": 2514,
      "EditedText": "I thank you for that great honour, especially on an all-party basis, which is appreciated. I hope that that is a sign of how the committee will work in the future. The role of convener is also a great responsibility. The Audit Committee is usually described as Parliament's powerful Audit Committee and I hope that we will all live up to that title. We are the public's financial watchdogs and we are expected to demand and to maintain the highest standards of probity, value and financial vigilance on behalf of the people and of their Parliament.The financial issues advisory group, which was drawn from a wide range of Scottish opinion, envisaged a powerful Audit Committee that would be independent of the Executive and would take the lead in scrutinising financial reports and seeking value for money from bodies responsible to this Parliament. To do that, we have a wide range of weapons at our disposal and an enormous reservoir of experience and expertise in our clerks, in the National Audit Office and in the professional audit teams and organisations who will help and advise us.It is up to us to use that expertise and experience for the public good as an essential part of making this Parliament work for the true benefit of all the people of Scotland. I welcome every member of the Audit Committee. Now let us get started."
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2517",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 2517,
      "EditedText": "I am just taking general comments about the remit of the committee. Could you choose your priority?"
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  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2519",
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
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      "EditedText": "We have to wait for reports into which we can get our teeth. An event horizon is happening outside, but that should not slow us down because there are value for money studies that we can examine right away and the clerks have provided us with information about some of them. I envisage meeting fortnightly, but that will depend on the amount of business that we have before us. We may have to meet more frequently.As for where we meet, we can meet outside this chamber, but I believe that there are certain budgetary problems that the Parliament shares in general. However, I would not like to think that this committee exists in Edinburgh and for Edinburgh. Although we have the power to call witnesses, I also hope that we will be able to take evidence outside Edinburgh as the occasion and subject demand.That is a matter for the committee as a whole. As we are just starting out, we will have to see how the matter develops as regards the interests of the committee and the projects that members will want to pursue. I imagine that, to begin with, the committee will meet fortnightly, but we may need to meet more frequently as the work rate increases. Everything depends on the issues that we deal with, because the finance and audit bill coming before Parliament might involve us in twice-a-week or twice-a-day meetings, depending on what role the committee will play. Therefore, how frequently we meet will depend on decisions about to be taken and on our input into and advice towards those decisions."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2524",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 2524,
      "EditedText": "That would be ideal."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2525",
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
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      "EditedText": "We have to take advice from the National Audit Office, which has to gather the evidence. Reports take time as they must be done carefully, but we wish to begin work as quickly as possible and encourage reports being done as reasonably quickly as possible. The timetable and programme will evolve after we get down to work. The clerk will send a note about the timing.To return to the list of VFM reports, which, as I said, is not exhaustive, it includes the private finance initiative report—health matters will be coming up—and the report on the Scottish Ambulance Service. Some substantive subjects are included, and they could be in our remit almost right away. You mentioned the finance and audit bill, Andrew, and asked whether we should be the lead committee. You made the point that we probably have more time to deal with the bill than our sister committee, the Finance Committee. I will have a conversation with the Convener of the Finance Committee to discuss that further—it is for future decision.The options are for one of the two committees to become the lead committee or for the bill to be divided into the specific remits: this committee would deal with the audit sections and the Finance Committee would deal with the finance sections. I will discuss those ideas with the Convener of the Finance Committee, but ultimately it will be for the Parliamentary Bureau to decide.When this committee deals with Executive bills, committees are required to determine the pre-legislative consultation exercise at stage 1. If we are initiating legislation or dealing with a bill at the pre-legislative stage, we will be involved in consultation. That will evolve over the next week or so. I will have conversations not only with the Convener of the Finance Committee, but with the Minister for Finance. I believe that he will be presenting a paper about the bill to this committee."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2531",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 2531,
      "EditedText": "Value for money—examining how assets are being used as opposed to the old line-by-line auditing system—is a particularly dynamic part of modern-day auditing. It is relevant for the future and, as this committee develops its programme, we will be following it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 87.0,
      "ContributionID": 2533,
      "EditedText": "You have given me a few things to contend with, but I have not finished Mr Wilson's points, so I will deal with them first."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 2544,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 2546,
      "EditedText": "The first week back would be good."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 2547,
      "EditedText": "What do other members feel?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1741E25P59C2548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Goldie, Annabel",
      "ID": 1741,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Miss Goldie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 2548,
      "EditedText": "I think that the first week back would be easier."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1751E163P286C2551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Craigie, Cathie",
      "ID": 1751,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Cumbernauld and Kilsyth"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Cathie Craigie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 2551,
      "EditedText": "The week before we return from recess might be better because the schools are back before us. Perhaps the last week in August is a possibility if it does not clash with people's holidays."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1990E181P340C2556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robson, Euan",
      "ID": 1990,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Roxburgh and Berwickshire"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Euan Robson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 2556,
      "EditedText": "It is important for us to consider the root causes of problems, which may take us back to before the establishment of Parliament. I thought that that would be the response and I am grateful for the clarification."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Angus"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 2557,
      "EditedText": "On root causes, I hope that this committee will be able to give advice from what it has learned to prevent something that has gone wrong from happening again. I hope that this committee will be involved in aftercare. In other words, if we report that things should be remedied, there is no point in leaving matters there. I want this committee—after six months, a year or whatever the suitable period is—to go back and examine what was actually done. I say that knowing from experience that, in Westminster, select committees can make recommendations, but those recommendations need not be debated—ours can be—and who knows whether the Government takes action? There is no provision for any aftercare. If we have sensible, good advice that is in the public good, I want us to be able to ensure that that advice is heeded by those who have failed in the past. We are not here simply to attack public organisations; I hope that we will also be helpful. Where we see good practice, part of our remit should be to ensure that it is extended to organisations throughout the country."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 2559,
      "EditedText": "We should bear in mind that we have to work out a four-year programme. I would like us to get into the meat of the subject as quickly as possible, but we have a large remit and should pace ourselves over four years to ensure that we cover as wide a spread of activities and investigations as possible.I agree that the relationships that we build up with the organisations with which we have contact are important. It is one thing to be afraid of having the auditors in, but this committee should go beyond that. Once the auditors have done their work and submitted their report, we should support best practice and encourage people to make suggestions to this committee about issues that ought to be examined. Our remit is wide open. Organisations should have the confidence to approach us, and should be able to expect open-handed treatment and a reasonable response. As the public watchdog, it is our job not only to ensure that we do our best to get to the root of problems—to point out what is wrong and can be cured—but to support best practice. We should encourage every organisation in Scotland for which we have responsibility to be simply the best and to improve its efficiency. That is our duty to the people. If we do our work properly, there will be great savings and money will become available for services. The end-product of our work—what this Parliament does for the good of the community of Scotland—is very important.Are there any other points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C2562",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
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    },
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 2562,
      "EditedText": "I return to the question of value for money. There seems to be a myth that value for money automatically leads to financial savings. That is not the case. Value for money builds in factors that were not taken into account by previous Governments, with regard to issues such as competitive tendering. Quality is high on the VFM agenda; the quality that individuals will receive is determined before other areas are examined. We should not make the mistake of believing that, if we opt for VFM, more money will necessarily end up in the till. No one should hold on to that myth; Andrew said that, if we opt for VFM, more money will be available, but that is not my experience. We will do things differently. The amount of money available may increase or remain the same, but delivery and the quality of what is delivered will improve significantly. That, rather than just cash, should be our measure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2563",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 2563,
      "EditedText": "That sounds like valuable practical experience, which should be of great use to the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C2564",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 2564,
      "EditedText": "Twenty years of it."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2568",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 2568,
      "EditedText": "Can the convener clarify this matter? I accept that we should not start immediately to delve into someone else's territory. However, there is no doubt that money will already have been spent on the project, so it is not unreasonable for us to consider it. Perhaps at an early stage the clerks could produce a paper for us on our role in the Holyrood project and the role of the corporate body. The convener may find himself in some difficulty here because of his dual role, but the matter may be usefully addressed in the clerks' report."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2569",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
      "ID": 1906,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 2569,
      "EditedText": "I am aware of that and it will be taken into account. It will not be a problem."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2570",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 2570,
      "EditedText": "The points raised by Annabel and Cathie were well made, but auditing need not always be after the fact. If, as the convener said, we are to innovate, our role should be not just to uncover mistakes after the fact, but to ensure that they do not occur. Given that public expenditure has been committed to the project—as the First Minister said in last week's debate—there must be a role for the Audit Committee to examine it as it progresses. I agree that the corporate body is the client, but the auditor is never the client—the auditor's role is to examine the spending decisions that the client has made. I suggest that the Audit Committee should assume an on-going role in monitoring the client's activity and the project as a whole. Obviously, we need to take advice on how that should work—Brian made that point when he referred to the money that has already been spent. My appeal is not that we rush in where angels fear to tread, but merely that we do not sit back and allow things to happen."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2571",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 38,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 2571,
      "EditedText": "We must be careful not to stray into other people's territory, but the clerk will prepare the paper that has been requested."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C2576",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-23T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 2576,
      "EditedText": "All of them are priorities and I am sure that everyone is interested in them all, but my early thought was that we should consider specific areas of policy interest. Scottish Enterprise training jumps out at me as an important matter, as it accounts for a large chunk of public expenditure in a key area of public policy and is crucial to the development of the economy. Of the reports that have been completed, the one on the A74-M74 private finance initiative is important. I repeat that the Skye bridge is another important issue for us, given that a Liberal Democrat motion will be coming before Parliament, but the two reports that I mentioned are early priorities given the general concerns that have been raised outwith and within the Parliament. However, I am sure that other folk have other ideas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2577",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 2577,
      "EditedText": "Scottish Enterprise is an important topic, but the report is not due until December 1999 so there will be a time delay before it is considered."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2580",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
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      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Welsh, Andrew",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 2580,
      "EditedText": "The fact that the clerk is blushing should tell you the answer to that question."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1823E145P193C2584",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jamieson, Margaret",
      "ID": 1823,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kilmarnock and Loudoun"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Margaret Jamieson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 2584,
      "EditedText": "We need to wait for Parliament to make its decision before we discuss the motion and make our view known. We need to be careful that we do not rake over old coals on matters that have already been considered by the Public Accounts Committee at Westminster. We must have the Parliament's decision before we decide to resurrect the discussion or ask for another report to be completed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2589",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
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    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 2589,
      "EditedText": "In that case, our starting point will be to consider the PFI and the previous accounts."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1926E190P479C2590",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Adam, Brian",
      "ID": 1926,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Brian Adam: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 2590,
      "EditedText": "There is also the report on the Scottish Ambulance Service."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2152E53P75C2593",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
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    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnston, Nick",
      "ID": 2152,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Johnston: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 2593,
      "EditedText": "Annabel and I have just come from the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, which should really be called the further education committee. I would find it useful to consider the report on further education colleges."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1906E278P355C2594",
    "Meeting": {
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      "ID": 12
    },
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      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 2594,
      "EditedText": "I will ask the clerks to think about those priorities and to begin to set out a programme, as a lot will depend on the bill and our participation in it. Market day is wearing on, so are there are any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C2595",
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 2595,
      "EditedText": "I want to support Mr Johnston. Further education may be an area of considerable growth in the near future, so it is important that we consider early on the information on management costs in that sector."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C2597",
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      "Title": "Audit Committee, 23 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 12
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Audit Committee",
      "ID": 103
    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 2597,
      "EditedText": "No."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:00:08.9362663+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C622705",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 622705,
      "EditedText": "I have registered nothing that would present a conflict of interest. However, I noted in the paperwork with which we were supplied that we might have to consider the area of general conduct and conduct in the chamber. It is worth mentioning at this stage that, as I am a Deputy Presiding Officer, I would be very careful about how that issue was dealt with."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622721",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 622721,
      "EditedText": "Wednesday afternoon?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622722",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 18711,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 622722,
      "EditedText": "Is not Parliament meeting on Wednesday afternoon?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622723",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 622723,
      "EditedText": "Not next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622728",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18711,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 622728,
      "EditedText": "It might be useful for members of the committee to have a general briefing on the Nolan rules and perhaps the associated Cadbury and Greenbury procedures. They do not apply directly to us, but I think that a straightforward briefing on the Nolan committee and its various modifications would be helpful, as it would set out the general principles. It would be helpful to identify whether there are any—if you like—issues of privilege that are not within the committee's remit. We should consider what is in our remit and what is not. The basis for this committee is the Standards and Privileges Committee at Westminster. This committee is called the Standards Committee and the implication is that there are no issues of privilege. We might want to contemplate a number of situations. For example, if a member speaking in the chamber raises a constituency issue in a way that might be considered libellous in a different context, how does that member stand vis-á-vis the Westminster Parliament.We would at least want to know how to advise members as to what they could and could not do in such circumstances, taking into account any issues of privilege separating our situation in the Scottish Parliament from that of MPs at Westminster. Is the Standards Committee purely concerned with standards in the context of elected members of the Scottish Parliament, or does it have any wider view of standards in public life—asking the Nolan committee question—in general? My interpretation is that the committee's work is purely to do with the Scottish Parliament: we should satisfy ourselves on that point. That, too, could be the subject of a briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C622732",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 622732,
      "EditedText": "That would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622746",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 622746,
      "EditedText": "Thank you."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622747",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 622747,
      "EditedText": "As a matter of principle, we need to decide whether our meetings should be in public or in private. I have been informed that meetings of the Standards and Privileges Committee at Westminster are always held in private. What do members think?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C622753",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 622753,
      "EditedText": "I agree completely with the sentiments expressed by Tricia and Karen. My one concern is about the need to ensure that we are consistent in our decisions about when to meet in private—the reasons for doing so must always be the same. For that reason, I believe that this is an area where we have to do a little more work before we can come up with a hard and fast rule. Privilege was mentioned. I am conscious of the fact that, as far as I understand it, there is no privilege for individual members—only for the records of proceedings of the Parliament. We must take that into account when we consider the conduct of an individual member. We may want to consider that area further and it would be helpful if the clerks could give us some ideas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622755",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 622755,
      "EditedText": "I will sum up the views that have been expressed. At Westminster, meetings of the Standards and Privileges Committee are held in private. I was about to say what I thought about that, but decided that, as convener, I should wait for everyone to express their views. I am glad that we are all speaking as one on this issue. The minutes should reflect the fact that, generally, we feel that there should be an assumption of openness in our affairs, although we do not want to make any specific recommendations yet. We will consider specific proposals at our next meeting. As Lord James has just said, we will have to be careful about cases involving individual members, and will need to have a consistent approach to such matters. Are there any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622756",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 622756,
      "EditedText": "There are practical considerations if an issue involving an individual member comes before us. We would need to be extraordinarily careful about the information that was conveyed at a public meeting. As Lord James said, it is possible that allegations about a member, which turn out to be unfounded, can be made public because information about a member and what they are alleged to have done is made available before it has been heard and before we have had an opportunity to decide whether there is any substance to it. We must balance the view—which is quite correct—that we should be open to public scrutiny with the need to protect members from spurious allegations. There must be particular procedures for that. We must also be careful about the information that goes out in agenda and minutes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622759",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 622759,
      "EditedText": "The point has been made that this is a very complex issue on which we can only—as we just have—make expressions of intent and do not have the time now or at the next meeting to make firm decisions about. That will be part of the work programme that will be drawn up.Are there any other comments or points?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622702",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 22 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18708,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18708,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 622702,
      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 15:30"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622706",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 622706,
      "EditedText": "Nothing in my register would prejudice me in this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622708",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 622708,
      "EditedText": "I am not aware of having anything to declare myself."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622709",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 622709,
      "EditedText": "I have nothing to declare that would prejudice my involvement in this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622711",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 622711,
      "EditedText": "To the best of my knowledge, I think that everyone has put in their return to \"The Register of Members' Interests\"."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622713",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18710,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18710,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 622713,
      "EditedText": "I confirm that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622715",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18710,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18710,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 622715,
      "EditedText": "Mr Mike Rumbles was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622716",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18710,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18710,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Mike Rumbles): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 622716,
      "EditedText": "I would first like to thank Lord James for chairing the first part of the first meeting of the Standards Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622717",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 18711,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 622717,
      "EditedText": "Before we move on to the third item on the agenda, which is the committee's remit and topics for further briefing, I want to ensure that everyone is aware of what the supplementary report of the code of conduct working group to the consultative steering group says. I have a copy of the document here, but I am not sure that everyone else has seen a copy of it. I am sure that everyone will receive a copy before the next meeting. I want to read out three sentences, because I think that what it says is important. The executive summary says:\"The Scottish electorate will have high expectations of their MSPs and the way in which they should behave in Parliament and in their relationships with their constituents. MSPs must meet those expectations by ensuring that their conduct is above reproach and worthy of the trust of the electorate. We recommend that the code of conduct should establish the minimum standard of behaviour that the Scottish electorate would expect of their representatives and set a framework for the behaviour of MSPs.\"Members will know from the briefing notes that the remit of the Standards Committee, which we are now considering, concerns members' conduct and the code of conduct mentioned in the standing orders. I think that it would be helpful if members considered how they wish to handle future business in relation to the work set out in that remit. The briefing note suggests topics for consideration in the future. We need to move ahead quickly on a number of items, specifically the code of conduct. Would members like to have another meeting next week so that we can consider the work programme and to discuss how the committee will operate at that meeting rather than this one?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622718",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 622718,
      "EditedText": "I would prefer a meeting next week rather than the first week after the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622729",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 622729,
      "EditedText": "It is for the bureau to determine the remit of the committees. My interpretation is that the Standards Committee examines the behaviour and conduct of MSPs in the Scottish Parliament. In setting up a code of conduct, we have a very big job to undertake. It covers a huge area. We need to give the clerks a steer on the draft work programme. We were discussing the possibility of having another meeting next week, but I have just been handed the draft work programme. Reading through it, I see that we could consider the manner and timing of the publication of the register of interests. I will deal with that now, as the matter came up a few minutes ago. According to the Scotland Act 1998, we are required to ensure that \"The Register of Members' Interests\" is published. The Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999 states that the register of interests of members of the Scottish Parliament\"shall be printed and published by the Clerk at such intervals and in such manner as the Parliament may determine.\"To allow early public availability of the register, the Parliamentary Bureau has authorised that the register be printed in a loose-leaf folder to be kept in the office of the clerk of the Parliament and to be published on the Scottish Parliament website. It may be printed and published in documentary form at a later date.We should hold a discussion on the general principles of a code of conduct for members and of a guide to the rules relating to the code of conduct. If the committee wishes, we could do that now, discussing matters which should be covered and the general approach to take."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C622730",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 622730,
      "EditedText": "I would find it very helpful to have a briefing from the information centre before we get involved in such a discussion. It is always helpful to have as much information as possible to inform our discussion and, if need be, to influence it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622731",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 622731,
      "EditedText": "Shall we go back to where we were before? I suggest meeting next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C622734",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Ingram: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 622734,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Office has done a fair bit of work of late on a new ethical framework for local government. I wonder whether there is any scope for the people involved in producing that to help us out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622735",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 622735,
      "EditedText": "That is a very good idea. We could link up the two processes.Can we agree a time for the briefing on Wednesday afternoon?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622736",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 622736,
      "EditedText": "The Scottish Youth Parliament is meeting next Wednesday afternoon and a number of members have indicated that they will attend. I advise that we avoid clashing with that meeting, which is at 2 o'clock."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622741",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 622741,
      "EditedText": "I must absent myself as I have an appointment in my diary for that time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622743",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 622743,
      "EditedText": "That sounds eminently sensible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622744",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 622744,
      "EditedText": "Can I be supplied with some printed information, as I know that I will not be able to attend next Wednesday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622749",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 622749,
      "EditedText": "I associate myself with Karen's remarks. The whole idea of the Scottish Parliament is to be open and transparent. If one of the first acts of the Standards Committee was an announcement that it intends to meet in private, that would send completely the wrong message to the people of Scotland, who have such great expectations of this Parliament. I take Karen's point that there might be occasions when we will want to meet in private, but that does not apply to general business such as drawing up codes of conduct or our work programme. Meeting in private should be a rare event rather than the norm."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1876E194P490C622752",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Marwick, Tricia",
      "ID": 1876,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Tricia Marwick: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 622752,
      "EditedText": "It would be wrong at this stage to suggest matters that we might meet in private to discuss; we can consider such issues at a later stage. We should not discuss at our first meeting the specific circumstances in which we might meet in private. We should take the view that the Standards Committee will meet in public and be open to the public and transparent, but that there might be occasions when we want to meet in private and that those should be approached issue by issue.I would not like us to say that any meeting at which a member is called before us will be private. We would need to consider carefully the circumstances at the time and decide what was in the public interest, as well as whether it was in the interests of Parliament to have a meeting in private."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622754",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 622754,
      "EditedText": "In principle, I believe that the committee should meet in public. However, if unsubstantiated allegations are made against an individual it would be a mistake to give them credence by making them public. In such circumstances, there would be a case for privacy,"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622757",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 622757,
      "EditedText": "I think that it would safe to say that our next meeting will be open to the public. Is everyone agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622758",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 622758,
      "EditedText": "We need the clerks to provide a draft procedure on how to deal with complaints against particular members. I assume that any individual complaints that come before the committee will be dealt with confidentially if they are in private and will be subject to press scrutiny if we decide to make them public. I take it for granted that members agree with that. We need some procedure for dealing with complaints against members. We all have our own ideas, but if the clerks could draft some suggestions, we could consider them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C622762",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
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      "ID": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 622762,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:56."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622703",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Standards Committee<br />Tuesday 22 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 18708,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 18708,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 622703,
      "EditedText": "Colleagues, I welcome you warmly to the first meeting of the Standards Committee. I have been informed that I am the oldest member and so have to take the chair for all of maybe one minute. I ask colleagues to confirm that they have their briefing pack with them for today's agenda. It seems that they do. It will be my duty to preside over the first two items of business: the declaration of members' interests and the committee's choice of convener. I will then pass the chair to the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622704",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 622704,
      "EditedText": "As far as declaration of interests is concerned, I ask colleagues to recall that where a member has lodged a statement for \"The Register of Members' Interests\" in respect of an interest that would prejudice or appear to prejudice that member's ability to participate, in a disinterested manner, in proceedings of the Parliament relating to any particular matter or subject, the member shall—before taking part in those proceedings—make an oral statement in those proceedings declaring the nature of that registerable interest.It is my duty to ask each member in turn whether they wish to make a declaration of registered interests relevant to this committee's remit as it is understood at this meeting. I have to say that this question is more relevant to the subject committees than to ours, but I will certainly put the question to each member in turn."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622707",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 18709,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 622707,
      "EditedText": "I have nothing to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1882E175P456C622710",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 18709,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
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      "ID": 18709,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ingram, Adam",
      "ID": 1882,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 622710,
      "EditedText": "I have nothing to declare either."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622712",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18710,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18710,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 622712,
      "EditedText": "We shall now proceed to the choice of convener. The Parliament, on a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau, has decided that the party whose members are eligible to be convener is the Liberal Democrat party. I invite Mr Mike Rumbles to confirm that he is willing to allow his name to go forward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622714",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 18710,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 18710,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 622714,
      "EditedText": "The normal—and easiest—procedure is to agree by way of acclamation. If all members are content, I am happy indeed to hand over the chair to Mr Mike Rumbles."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622719",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 622719,
      "EditedText": "What about Wednesday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622720",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 622720,
      "EditedText": "Preferably morning."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0315705+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622724",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 622724,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we see how far we get today and organise another meeting on that basis.I apologise for being late."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622725",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 622725,
      "EditedText": "As you were slightly late, you missed Lord James asking if any of us had any interest to declare. Do you have any relevant interests to declare?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622726",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 622726,
      "EditedText": "I do not have anything to declare as an interest, although I would like to flag up one issue. There is the vague possibility of a conflict between my responsibilities in the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body and in the Standards Committee. The corporate body may have to make a recommendation to the Standards Committee and that could cause a difficulty. I am seeking some clarification on that, but I would never want to be in the roles of prosecutor and judge. We may need to consider that issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622727",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 18711,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 622727,
      "EditedText": "Members might wish to make general comments on topics for future consideration. We want to reflect any comments about that in our draft work programme, which the clerk will prepare in discussion with me fairly soon. If we have a meeting next week, the programme will be prepared before that meeting. I am not prejudging whether we will have a meeting next week; we will see how things go today, as has been suggested. Do we want, for example, any particular organisation to conduct a briefing for us? I think that the intention was that we might want an outside body to brief us on how it works, or the Scottish Parliament information centre might produce some research information to assist us, which was one of the purposes of having a meeting next week. I will throw the issue open."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622733",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 622733,
      "EditedText": "I support Ms Ferguson's call for a meeting next week. It would be very useful to get a picture of how these matters are dealt with in other democratic Parliaments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622737",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
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      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 622737,
      "EditedText": "I do not want to be prescriptive. When do you suggest?"
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622738",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 622738,
      "EditedText": "Wednesday morning, if possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1853E127P225C622739",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Ferguson, Patricia",
      "ID": 1853,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Maryhill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Ms Ferguson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 622739,
      "EditedText": "The earlier the better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622740",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 622740,
      "EditedText": "Nine o'clock on Wednesday morning? That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622742",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 622742,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee want to delegate authority to me to agree a programme of speakers and a briefing programme, taking on board the suggestions that have been made? We can put that together for next Wednesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622745",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 622745,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1803E78P291C622748",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gillon, Karen",
      "ID": 1803,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydesdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Karen Gillon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 622748,
      "EditedText": "In general, I hope that we will be able to meet in public. Obviously, if we are discussing individual members or matters of specific interest, we should meet in private—that is for the committee to decide—but if this is to be an open and accessible Parliament, we should meet in public and have nothing to hide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622750",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 622750,
      "EditedText": "Are there any other comments?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1970E66P288C622751",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McNulty, Des",
      "ID": 1970,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Clydebank and Milngavie"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Des McNulty: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 622751,
      "EditedText": "Presumably there is no question of the matters that are set out as part of our remit in 1b of the briefing note not being dealt with in public. The matters that are detailed in 1a, however, relate to individual members. If there is a case to be heard and a member is under scrutiny—in such instances we would presumably be acting in response to a recommendation from somebody else—it is appropriate that meetings should be held in private. A report would be made public once we had completed our deliberations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2056E57P84C622760",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James",
      "ID": 2056,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Lothians"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 622760,
      "EditedText": "I should perhaps mention that I am a member of the Parliamentary Bureau, which Patricia Ferguson is also a member of and which Tricia Marwick attends. I cannot, however, imagine that there could be any conflict of interest between the Parliamentary Bureau and this committee, but I mention the fact of my membership of it in passing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C622761",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Standards Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3467
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Standards Committee",
      "ID": 169
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 18711,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 18711,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 622761,
      "EditedText": "Just before we close I would like to say that we have made progress. We have another meeting with a briefing arranged for next Wednesday morning at 9 o'clock. The clerk has noted all the comments that have been made and will ensure that the briefing is staffed properly. We will take the issues forward from there. Thank you very much for attending."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:08:07.0471838+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578337",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 578337,
      "EditedText": "I concur with the comments that have been made. We may want to prioritise a number of issues, some of which have already come to the Parliament's attention. For example, I draw members' attention to the letter that we received this morning from the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. It outlines the importance of the fishing industry to Scotland, and contains the line:\"I trust that we may look forward to the Committee's interest in such acute issues as the current boundary dispute and, more importantly, the development of a strategic vision for fishing.\"It is important that we set priorities, and I would like to discuss them at some point."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.8823049+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578407",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 181.0,
      "ContributionID": 578407,
      "EditedText": "I am not suggesting that we discuss exactly what sub-committees should be established but, as some subjects are so unwieldy, it may be wise to agree on the principle that sub-committees would be an important part of our activities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.897927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 22 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17604,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17604,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 578319,
      "EditedText": "The oldest member of the committee opened the meeting at 12:00"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578321",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 17605,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17605,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 578321,
      "EditedText": "Before we elect the convener, I remind you that we were all required to register our relevant interests by 18 June. I am sure that everyone has done that, but before we proceed I must ask whether anyone has any interest to declare that is relevant to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 17605,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17605,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 578323,
      "EditedText": "I understand that if you declared an interest on your statement that is relevant to this committee, we should hear about it; if you are quite happy with what is on your declaration, that is fine."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 17605,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17605,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 578324,
      "EditedText": "It is only right that I say in the public forum of this committee that I own and farm some 1,600 acres in the south-west of Scotland. Half of that is tenanted out, so I have a landlord's interest as well as an agricultural and farming interest."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 17605,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17605,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Johnstone (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 578326,
      "EditedText": "Given that my colleague has declared his involvement in the farming industry, I would like to declare that I, too, am in the farming industry. I own and farm just under 400 acres in the north-east. I am also a member of the National Farmers Union and of the Scottish Landowners Federation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578333",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 17606,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ID": 17606,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Alex Johnstone): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 30.0,
      "ContributionID": 578333,
      "EditedText": "I thank John Munro for chairing the first part of the meeting. I agree that this is a comfortable chair—I notice that it is fitted with wheels, which my previous chair did not have."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578334",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 578334,
      "EditedText": "We must now discuss what this committee will try to achieve during its four-year term. The remit of the committee is item 3 on the agenda. Note 3, which explains the item, reads:\"The Rural Affairs Committee has been established by the Parliament under rule 6.1 of the Standing Orders with the following remit.\tTo consider and report on matters relating to rural development, agriculture and fisheries and such other matters as fall within the responsibility of the Minister for Rural Affairs.\"Of course, that relies on the definition of the responsibility of the Minister for Rural Affairs. At present, that is understood to be:\"Responsibility for policy in relation to rural development including agriculture, fisheries and forestry.\"A number of subjects that this committee may wish to consider cross into areas for which other committees have responsibility. For that reason, we must establish what areas we are interested in."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578339",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 578339,
      "EditedText": "Our remit depends on what is understood to fall within the responsibility of the Minister for Rural Affairs, but it is important to clarify, for the record, that that is qualified by the words \"and such other matters\". We are not precluded from discussing anything that we think falls under the heading rural development, whether or not it is the minister's responsibility.As other members have said, rural transport, rural education and rural housing are all very important issues. We certainly do not want to get hemmed in by being simply an agriculture and fisheries committee, which might happen if we are not careful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578344",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 578344,
      "EditedText": "The clerk suggests that Monday may be the most appropriate day."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578346",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 578346,
      "EditedText": "The clerk says that there are committee meetings on Tuesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578352",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 578352,
      "EditedText": "I want to make a rather more general point about where we meet. It seems inappropriate that the Rural Affairs Committee should always meet in Edinburgh, in the centre of a city. If any committee should travel to other parts of Scotland, particularly to the rural areas, this committee should. All members of the committee believe that we should travel around and use alternative venues. I realise that that would not be very convenient. Three of us are from the south-west of Scotland and almost everybody else is from the north, so we would have to travel from one end of the country to the other. However, it is important that we meet throughout Scotland so that we can consult people in rural communities who might find it difficult to come here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578358",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 578358,
      "EditedText": "I think that it is essential. In fact, we should start the meeting with a briefing from that department. If we are to focus on the role and remit of the department, we need to know from the very beginning exactly how it operates. An initial briefing would be very useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578362",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 578362,
      "EditedText": "It is very important, as the Highlands and Islands is such a huge geographical area."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578363",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 578363,
      "EditedText": "It is the role of the Parliamentary Bureau to clarify the position of the Highlands and Islands within the remit of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578366",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 578366,
      "EditedText": "The clerk tells me that the bureau will meet on Tuesday, but we do not yet know at what time."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578380",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 578380,
      "EditedText": "Does Mr Fergusson mean another meeting after the briefing session?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578390",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 578390,
      "EditedText": "I have an interim list of approved sites for committee meetings outside Edinburgh. So far, the venues are: the Town and County Hall in Aberdeen; the County Hall in Ayr; the County Buildings in Cupar; Easterbrook Hall in Dumfries; Maryatt Hall in Dundee; Volunteer Hall in Galashiels; the City Chambers banqueting hall in Glasgow; Victoria Hall in Helensburgh; the Town House in Inverness; the City Hall in Perth; and the Albert Halls in Stirling. Does any member have a view about the appropriateness of those sites?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578394",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 578394,
      "EditedText": "What we are saying is that there should be no no-go areas; we should go wherever we need to go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578400",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 167.0,
      "ContributionID": 578400,
      "EditedText": "I add the one proviso that, in moving around, we do as little damage to the budget as possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578403",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 173.0,
      "ContributionID": 578403,
      "EditedText": "How often will this committee meet? I have not yet come across anything that suggests how regularly we should meet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578406",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 179.0,
      "ContributionID": 578406,
      "EditedText": "Do we think it appropriate to progress to sub-committees at this early stage, or should we wait until we have had some briefing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578411",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 189.0,
      "ContributionID": 578411,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 12:38."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578405",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 177.0,
      "ContributionID": 578405,
      "EditedText": "Sub-committees may be worth a few comments as many of the subjects that we will address, such as agriculture and fisheries, are large."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.897927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 17605,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17605,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 578325,
      "EditedText": "Given the present difficulties in agriculture, I do not know whether to commiserate with you. Does any other member have an interest to declare?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 17605,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17605,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 578327,
      "EditedText": "I do not aspire to the great acres that you gentlemen have. I am a crofter, with a small acreage in the Highlands. Anyone who knows anything about crofting will realise—and this is a bland statement—that a croft is a small parcel of land surrounded by legislation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 17606,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ID": 17606,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 578329,
      "EditedText": "As there are only two members of the Conservative party on the committee, I take pleasure in standing aside for my colleague, Alex Johnstone, who will make a good convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578338",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 578338,
      "EditedText": "One way of prioritising some of the issues that are not directly related to agriculture, fisheries or forestry is to tease out the remit in more detail. The remit lists global issues—such as transport—with no subheadings. Poverty and rural areas, social inclusion and access to information are all contained under one subheading, whereas each of those categories contains many issues to be considered. One way forward would be to tease out the various issues that might be relevant."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578340",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 578340,
      "EditedText": "Would anyone like to comment on some of the issues that relate to the more traditional aspects of the committee's role and the relationship that they should have to the ones that we have just discussed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578341",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 578341,
      "EditedText": "Forestry, one of the traditional aspects, will be a fascinating industry in the next 10 years. Output is expected to double during that time and yet it is cheaper at the moment to buy a fencing stob in Latvia than it is to manufacture it in Scotland. Part of this Parliament's role must be to examine ways in which we can use primary produce from rural areas and use it to added value in the areas in which it is produced. Forestry is just one example of an area in which we will have an important role to play. I do not disagree at all with what other members have said."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578343",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 578343,
      "EditedText": "It has been suggested that the committee may want to hold a briefing session in the near future. At that session, we could bring in people to advise us and to contribute to the early stages of the committee's development; we could also consider the continuing development of the committee's work. We should do that to clear up anything that we need to learn now and anything that we need to decide at this early stage; that will enable us to start work after the recess.Mr Macdonald suggested the week of 1 July and similar suggestions were made to me, informally, before this meeting. Do members of the committee consider it appropriate for a briefing session to be organised for the early part of next week? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578351",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 578351,
      "EditedText": "That is what we hope to initiate in the meeting that is proposed for next Tuesday. We could decide at the end of that meeting exactly how we want to progress thereafter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578353",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 578353,
      "EditedText": "I assume that, at least for next Tuesday's meeting, we want to meet as close to the office as possible. We should find a room in the Parliament complex for our briefing session at 2.30 pm next Tuesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578355",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 578355,
      "EditedText": "I have a list in front of me, but I want to clarify what we are going to do next Tuesday before we discuss locations. If we meet next Tuesday, informally, to plan how we are to deal with the committee's remit in the longer term, is there any person on the staff or any organisation that members would like to conduct that briefing?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578357",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 578357,
      "EditedText": "I hope that those people will be available at 2.30 pm next Tuesday. Would it be appropriate for members of the committee to have informal contact with the Minister for Rural Affairs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578360",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 578360,
      "EditedText": "When we meet him, perhaps the minister can explain—or perhaps you could explain, Mr Johnstone—the note on the briefing document, immediately below the definition of the remit, which states that \"this remit excludes the co-ordination of executive policy in relation to the Highlands and Islands and Gaelic, responsibility for which is held by the Deputy to the Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning.\"Where then do the Highlands and Islands, as a region, stand in relation to the Rural Affairs Committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578365",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 578365,
      "EditedText": "Can we get a ruling on that before next Tuesday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578368",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 578368,
      "EditedText": "Some issues will obviously cross over between departments. That is why we need an early ruling on the position of the Highlands and Islands within the remit of this committee. I agree that confusion could result if that region were excluded from our remit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578369",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 578369,
      "EditedText": "I propose that the committee put forward, as our first collective view, the suggestion that rural development should be understood to mean the development of the whole of rural Scotland and that the committee has an interest in development issues that affect the whole of rural Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578371",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 578371,
      "EditedText": "Would anyone like to raise any other points about the briefing session?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578372",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 578372,
      "EditedText": "Will the objective of the briefing session be to compile a list of the first inquiries to be set up?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578375",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 578375,
      "EditedText": "We will do that if we decide it necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578376",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 578376,
      "EditedText": "We need to have a clearer understanding of this committee's remit, because rural development encompasses so many of our interests. We understand the present difficulties in the agriculture and fishing industries but, as Mr Fergusson said, there are other issues, such as those concerning the Forestry Commission. There have been tremendous problems in rural Scotland; much of the forestry is in remote parts of the countryside at the end of single-track roads that are founded on peat and are very substandard. Any development, wherever it takes place, has to depend on good transport links and on good communication between main centres.We have a remit for rural affairs, but there is an opportunity to have links with the Transport and the Environment Committee. If we discuss transport issues, will we impinge on that committee's work? We have to be clear about the issues that the Rural Affairs Committee will promote. I agree that our remit should be wide enough to consider transport, agriculture, fisheries, forestry and other issues that concern rural communities."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578381",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 578381,
      "EditedText": "We need to lay down guidelines about how we proceed before the recess, otherwise it will be September before we meet again."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578382",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 578382,
      "EditedText": "Could we have the briefing session and then move into formal session on the same day?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578393",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 578393,
      "EditedText": "As a member for an Aberdeen constituency, I should say that Scottish towns and cities—particularly in the north of Scotland—also have an active and direct interest in rural issues. Although we should take account of John Munro's point, we should not debar ourselves from centres that are of particular importance to rural economies."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578395",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 578395,
      "EditedText": "Is it the feeling of the committee that we should take the committee all over Scotland and wherever rural interests demand that we go?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578397",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 578397,
      "EditedText": "It is only fair that the Rural Affairs Committee should take a lead in visiting rural areas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578398",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 578398,
      "EditedText": "The caveat must be that, when we go to those areas, we engage with local people with relevant interests. Those people must have full details of committee meetings; they will then be able to feel part of the meeting. The issue is not just about the committee visiting rural areas, but about our engaging with people there on a particular subject. This matter needs a lot of scene-setting and advance publicity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578399",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 165.0,
      "ContributionID": 578399,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone agreed? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578401",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 169.0,
      "ContributionID": 578401,
      "EditedText": "When setting up those meetings, we must be mindful of the amount of time that it could take to reach them by public transport. We should have meetings at which we can arrive on time by public transport. In making arrangements, we should also be mindful of the fact that some of us need to attend meetings of other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578402",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 171.0,
      "ContributionID": 578402,
      "EditedText": "It is clear that we want this committee to move around. Earlier, I said to the clerk that, if he had any fundamental objections to anything that we said, he should kick me under the table. That has not happened yet so I think that we can we assume that the clerk is ready to travel the country as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578404",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 175.0,
      "ContributionID": 578404,
      "EditedText": "The projection is every two weeks. Of course, that will depend on our work load; flexibility will be necessary. We have a very open agenda. Do members feel that anything else should be discussed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Rural Affairs Committee<br />Tuesday 22 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 17604,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 17604,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 578320,
      "EditedText": "Good morning and welcome to the first meeting of the Rural Affairs Committee. It is an important committee with a lot to do. I am sure that many of you have particular interests and aspirations as to what we should debate, discuss and promote. I am in the chair because I have the distinction of being the oldest member. That description is rather unfair—the most senior member would have been more acceptable. However, for my sins, here I am."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 17605,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 17605,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 578322,
      "EditedText": "Does that include the interests that we declared when we lodged our statements?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 17606,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ID": 17606,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 578328,
      "EditedText": "Members will appreciate that the Parliament has decided that this committee will be convened by a member of the Conservative party. I invite anyone from that party with aspirations to chair this committee to step forward. We do not have to nominate and second, because the convener's party has already been decided—we need only nominate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 17606,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ID": 17606,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 578330,
      "EditedText": "Is everyone agreed?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C578331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 17606,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ID": 17606,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 578331,
      "EditedText": "Alex Johnstone was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578332",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 17606,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ID": 17606,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ContributionID": 578332,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. I will now hand over to Mr Johnstone. We will need to change places, Mr Johnstone. You will find that this is a very comfortable chair."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578335",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald (Aberdeen Central) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 578335,
      "EditedText": "It is important to establish at the outset that we cover the whole range of rural development. A very helpful list was provided by the clerk in the briefing paper, which covers the four areas of agriculture, fisheries, forestry and other issues affecting rural affairs. If we are planning ahead on a four-year basis, we should consider distributing our attention across those key industries as well as the wider issues affecting rural development."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578336",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 578336,
      "EditedText": "I am happy with the list of issues, but other issues that affect rural areas fall within the remit of other committees. For example, certain educational initiatives may have particular effects on rural areas. It could be difficult to implement higher still in areas that have small secondary schools. Pre-five legislation has a particular impact and causes particular problems in rural areas. There may be times when we want to make representations to other committees because particular issues have an effect on rural areas or because a rural dimension must be considered. Will we be able to make those representations?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578342",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 578342,
      "EditedText": "What thoughts have you had about timetabling the procedures of the committee, Mr Johnstone? When do you want to proceed with detailed examination? Do you intend that the committee should meet again before 1 July?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578345",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 578345,
      "EditedText": "Is the clerk suggesting that or telling you that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578347",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 578347,
      "EditedText": "May I suggest that, if we are to have an informal briefing meeting, we may not require a room with all the facilities that this room has. I have existing commitments on Monday, which would make that a difficult day. The same may be true of other members. Is it possible to hold the meeting on Tuesday?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578348",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 578348,
      "EditedText": "Tuesday may be appropriate. Would someone like to suggest a time?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578349",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 578349,
      "EditedText": "I suggest 2.30 pm."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2117E79P104C578356",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macdonald, Lewis",
      "ID": 2117,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen Central"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Lewis Macdonald: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 578356,
      "EditedText": "The rural affairs seminar that was held a number of weeks ago was very useful. It might be worth seeking advice from one or two of the people who were involved in that. There were people representing industrial interests, which is important, but there were also people who were one step removed and had an academic overview of some of the issues affecting agriculture and fisheries, which was very useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578359",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 578359,
      "EditedText": "I entirely agree. It is essential to establish a good working relationship with the minister."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578361",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 578361,
      "EditedText": "It may be appropriate to ask for further clarification of that at the earliest opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C578364",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 578364,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we have clarification at an early stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578367",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 578367,
      "EditedText": "We must express our concern about the issue. It would be more than a little ironic if the Rural Affairs Committee were to be prevented from considering a large number of matters connected with the Highlands and Islands."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578370",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
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      "ID": 17607,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 578370,
      "EditedText": "Is that the general view of the committee? Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578373",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
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      "ID": 17607,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 578373,
      "EditedText": "The briefing session will not be a formal meeting of the committee at which we make formal decisions about how to proceed. We want to clarify the committee's terms of reference so that we have a straightforward understanding of how to proceed. We could then, at our subsequent meeting, establish our formal arrangements. It would be unfortunate to make decisions at an informal briefing session where the public could not scrutinise what we were doing. At the briefing session, we will discuss among ourselves how we go about our work; that will enable us to have a smooth transition into a full operational state thereafter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578374",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 578374,
      "EditedText": "Does that mean that we will have another formal meeting before the recess to ensure that preparatory work for our investigations will continue during part of the recess?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578377",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 578377,
      "EditedText": "Before we started this meeting, the clerk gave me a clear definition of rural affairs. He said that, in its truest sense, rural affairs concerns all that is not urban. In that respect, we have a very broad remit; I would like to think that we can deal with any issue that falls within that remit. We need to plan how we will proceed with the work that pertains to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578378",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 578378,
      "EditedText": "We are all agreed on the need for next Tuesday's briefing session, but I think that we would also agree that we need before the recess an idea of where we are heading. We have a slight timing problem because the recess is so soon, so I think that we should meet again next week."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578379",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 578379,
      "EditedText": "Is that the feeling of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1892E34P73C578383",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Fergusson, Alex",
      "ID": 1892,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alex Fergusson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 578383,
      "EditedText": "As long as it is not after 5.30 pm, as I have another meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578384",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 578384,
      "EditedText": "As we will have had the informal briefing session, the formal business should not take long. What would be an appropriate time for the formal meeting?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578386",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 578386,
      "EditedText": "Before I move on, does anyone have any other points about the briefing session? We will invite the in-house staff and the Minister for Rural Affairs, but do any members want anyone else to be present?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578388",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 142.0,
      "ContributionID": 578388,
      "EditedText": "The research department will be able to do that.Does anyone want to comment on the suggestion that this committee should move around Scotland? Some groups have expressed the wish that it should and I suspect that members of the committee are probably unanimous on the matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C578389",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 578389,
      "EditedText": "A member at the meeting of the Equal Opportunities Committee made the same suggestion for that committee. However, attention focused on the main urban areas, such as Inverness, Aberdeen, Dundee and Perth and south to the Borders and Dumfries. Someone on the committee suggested that there were large areas of the countryside beyond those urban centres and that we should think about going further into the periphery of the country to places such as Wick and Thurso and even to Shetland and the northern isles. If the committee is going to move around—as I think it should—it should move beyond the main urban centres."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1888E265P358C578391",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 17607,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Morgan, Alasdair",
      "ID": 1888,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Galloway and Upper Nithsdale"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Alasdair Morgan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 578391,
      "EditedText": "That list backs up Mr Munro's point. Some of those sites seem fairly urban. If an inquiry is relevant to a particular place, we should go there. Most places have halls that could accommodate a committee and a small audience. I am a member of the Trade and Industry Select Committee at Westminster and that committee managed to fit into Thurso town hall. If a Westminster committee can get to Thurso, an Edinburgh committee should be able to get a damn sight further than that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2140E187P335C578408",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
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      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Rumbles, Mike",
      "ID": 2140,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Rumbles: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 183.0,
      "ContributionID": 578408,
      "EditedText": "I am not so sure about that. It is easy to fall into the trap of elevating agriculture, fisheries and forestry to the detriment of all the other issues involved in rural development. At the opening of this meeting, I think that everyone agreed that rural affairs were about transport, education and social inclusion—all of which we discussed with reference to other committees. I take issue with Richard and am not keen to rush into establishing sub-committees until we get our feet under the table and find out exactly what is going on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1768E72P274C578409",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Murray, Elaine",
      "ID": 1768,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dumfries"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Murray: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 185.0,
      "ContributionID": 578409,
      "EditedText": "I know that the suggestion refers specifically to sub-committees, but we might find it more appropriate to set up smaller task groups to investigate particular issues over a shorter period and then to report back to this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1893E47P78C578410",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Johnstone, Alex",
      "ID": 1893,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 187.0,
      "ContributionID": 578410,
      "EditedText": "It is almost inevitable that this committee will want to form sub-committees to deal with specific issues. I think that we will feel the pressure to do so in the near future as our remit becomes clearer in our minds. We will take heed of Richard Lochhead's point and of Mike Rumbles's suggestion not to rush into forming sub-committees.We may want to discuss the appointment of reporters who will deal with specific interests. One suggestion may be of interest to members: where appropriate, those of us who are on another committee may act as reporters for this committee where the work of the other committee is of value to this committee. On one or two matters, there will be pressure for us to build links early on with other committees. Inevitably, European issues will be a high priority and will affect our work on farming and the fishing industry. We are also likely early on to have to consider the effects of the Government's land reform proposals on the areas that fall within our remit. I do not suggest that we need to appoint reporters at this stage, but we may have to fairly early on if the legislation is introduced quickly.We have set up an early meeting to discuss our remit informally. We have also set up a formal meeting immediately after that so that we can formalise anything that we wish to proceed with after consulting staff and the minister. I would be delighted to have any late suggestions if members want formally to invite anyone else to the gathering that we have planned for next Tuesday. I think that, at our formal meeting, we will be able to set out a clear plan of how we should deal with Government plans that affect rural Scotland. We will know what we can do to advance the interests of this committee through the Scottish Parliament and how we can influence what happens to rural Scotland. I hope that we will be able to gauge our priorities and how we will proceed with them. It has been clear in our discussion that we know all too well that the farming and fishing industries are important to rural Scotland and to Scotland as a whole, but we must not allow ourselves to be sidetracked by their importance; we must not forget that everything that affects Scotland is significant to rural Scotland. The provision of education, health and quality housing will very much fall within the remit of this committee.I do not wish to prolong this meeting unnecessarily. We have set out where we intend to go in the next week, after which we will be able to set out a clear plan of how we intend to proceed. I thank you all for your attendance. In this committee, I hope that we can proceed in the same friendly and informal way as we have today and that we can achieve something for Scotland's countryside."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:07:33.8919084+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578350",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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      "ID": 17607,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 578350,
      "EditedText": "Members of the Finance Committee suggested having a day for informal briefings during the recess. It might be useful to have a full day, in an informal setting, having briefings on such issues as the European policies that affect the work of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C578392",
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      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 578392,
      "EditedText": "It is important that the committee should get to the islands, as they form a huge part of Scotland's rural area. All the islands have councils and the council buildings must have facilities to host a committee of this size."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.6910488+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578354",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 578354,
      "EditedText": "Most members agree with Dr Murray's comments and had planned to mention the subject of committee locations. I understand that the clerks conducted an investigation into locations around Scotland at which committees could meet. It would be useful to have a list of those locations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.8823049+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578385",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 578385,
      "EditedText": "Four o'clock, which would allow an hour and a half."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.897927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578387",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 578387,
      "EditedText": "It might be useful to find out what other inquiries on rural affairs are taking place. For example, an inquiry on sea-fishing is being conducted at Westminster. It would be useful to have an idea of what other inquiries are under way and to get their papers and reports."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.897927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2180E179P471C578396",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Rural Affairs Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 3218
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Rural Affairs Committee",
      "ID": 159
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 17607,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ID": 17607,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lochhead, Richard",
      "ID": 2180,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Richard Lochhead: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 578396,
      "EditedText": "We should make that clear at the earliest possible opportunity—if any committee should set an example, it should be ours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:55.897927+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495105",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 22 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 13417,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13417,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 495105,
      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 14:15"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495107",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 13418,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13418,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 495107,
      "EditedText": "The first thing that I must do is enable all members to declare any interests that are relevant to the committee. I have a sparse register of interests; my membership of the Westminster Parliament, by which I am paid, presumably might bias me in matters of procedure in the Scottish Parliament, but I do not think that it will. Other than that, I have no relevant interests to register.I invite members to say for the record whether they have any interests to declare."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495108",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 13418,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13418,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 495108,
      "EditedText": "I was caught up in the no, no campaign, so my declaration of interests form says no, no; no, no; no, no. I have no interests that are relevant, other than my salary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495109",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 13418,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13418,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 495109,
      "EditedText": "I have no relevant interests that I am aware of."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495111",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 13418,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13418,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ContributionID": 495111,
      "EditedText": "It is very boring, but I have no interests to declare that I am aware of."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495113",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 13418,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13418,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 18.0,
      "ContributionID": 495113,
      "EditedText": "I make six in a row in terms of the declaration of interests as registered, but as a member of the Parliamentary Bureau I have an interest in ensuring that the committee operates in such a way as to make the work of the Parliament more effective. That is one of the reasons why I am here."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495115",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 13419,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13419,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 495115,
      "EditedText": "Members will know that Parliament has voted that the convener of this committee should be a representative of the Scottish Conservative party. Bearing that in mind, may I ask for a proposal?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495117",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 13419,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13419,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 495117,
      "EditedText": "Is that agreed to by everyone?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495119",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 13419,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13419,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 495119,
      "EditedText": "Mr Murray Tosh was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495121",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 13419,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13419,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mr Murray Tosh): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 34.0,
      "ContributionID": 495121,
      "EditedText": "Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. I hope that we will all subscribe to the sentiments of Mike Russell and that we are all committed to making the Parliament work. This committee's job will be to oil the wheels and to ensure that the Parliament can operate effectively in the interests of Government legislation and of individual members and their constituents."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495122",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 495122,
      "EditedText": "The clerk to the committee has provided a number of papers that we will want to look at relating to the committee's remit and the areas of activity that we will cover.I do not think that we should be too formal. There are only seven of us and I have noticed that one or two members in the chamber have been Jim-ing and Alex-ing each other. I hope that we will agree that we can operate using names rather than titles. We should use first names and I would like to think that the support staff would come into that as well, so that we can develop a proper and sensible working relationship. If members want to remove their jackets and so on because of the rather warm lights that we have, that would be eminently sensible.This afternoon, we should agree on an approach to the standing orders and select a number of areas on which we would like the support staff to concentrate during the summer. I have no view on whether it would be appropriate to have any meetings between now and the resumption of Parliament. We can discuss that later on.Members all have the paper that contains the remit for the Procedures Committee and topics for further briefing. I do not want members to speak to the paper or go through it line by line, but I wondered whether anybody had anything that they wanted to raise. The paper gives the number of members of the committee, the membership, the duration of the convenership and so on. Does any member wish clarification or a ruling on that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495127",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 495127,
      "EditedText": "We should learn as we go. Until the committees have had a good run at things and a bill has been through Parliament, we will not know all the snags. What Mike Russell says is sensible: we should alter the things that are clearly wrong and have a more mature look when we have had more experience."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495129",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 495129,
      "EditedText": "The difficulty is that other committees that met today might have discovered further problems and, as the process is teased out, more will arise. Annex C is indicative rather than definitive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495130",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 495130,
      "EditedText": "Is there a formal mechanism by which such problems can be noted and brought to our attention?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495132",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 495132,
      "EditedText": "There are many consumers of standing orders; members are not the only ones. Other consumers include the clerking staff and the public. One of the purposes of standing orders is to make the Parliament understandable and transparent. To work out where problems are occurring now, we must trawl all those consumers. The views of clerks throughout the Parliament, who have had difficulties, must be trawled even on tiny matters such as the business bulletin in which certain things are prescribed. There must be a trawl of the groups and individuals in the Parliament, but thought should also be given to how the standing orders make business appear. For example, the Parliamentary Bureau has decided to ask members who want to ask questions at open question time to read their questions aloud. That is not what happens at Westminster; there, the question number is read out. We should ensure that standing orders allow more transparency in the operation of the Parliament. To do that, we must think creatively about how we can get the opinion of those who come to watch what is going on. Perhaps we should issue a questionnaire to the gallery four or five times, to find out whether people understand what is taking place."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495135",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13420,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 495135,
      "EditedText": "We should consider the hot spots that have already arisen and make changes as quickly as possible, although that would not give us the finished item. Those changes could be accepted by the Parliament, and the next day we could start again on more difficult or contentious issues, for which more consultation might be required. We should hit the hot spots that we have already encountered in the chamber and elsewhere."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495140",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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      "ID": 13420,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 495140,
      "EditedText": "I am advised that it would be inappropriate to operate under shadow standing orders, but I find that difficult to understand. We have been operating under shadow standing orders for the past month, and I am not sure why we could not continue to do so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495144",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 495144,
      "EditedText": "I do not suppose that it would make any difference whether we changed the standing orders now or later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495146",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 495146,
      "EditedText": "It almost becomes a matter of labels, but if we accept the present standing orders and make emergency adjustments, they are not really our standing orders; they are still the original ones."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495151",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 495151,
      "EditedText": "In the meantime, as Janis says, some of those issues are identified in annex C. The staff could trawl members and the groups, look at the issue of public perception and come back with a complete list of suggestions, as well as suggestions on the most urgent matters. I suspect that question time is one of the areas where there is most concern at the moment, in the sense that it is flat and does not represent a real exchange of views. There are other urgent matters, such as statements, which are not considered sexy in that sense and are impeding us a little. There is no clarity in the standing orders on what a statement is in parliamentary terms. That is important, because our business might become overburdened with statements without debate. The right way to deal with the matter would be to get a list of all the issues to date and highlight half a dozen or so on which we can do some substantive work in September and early October, with a view to taking matters further in October."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495154",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13420,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 495154,
      "EditedText": "I mean in the committee—the mechanics of our drawing up the list."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495159",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 112.0,
      "ContributionID": 495159,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps that was a bad example to pick; if a hot spot is identified, I am asking whether we will be given suggestions for resolving it that we might consider. Rather than having a list of problems, perhaps we can have a list of potential solutions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495160",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13420,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 114.0,
      "ContributionID": 495160,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495164",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 122.0,
      "ContributionID": 495164,
      "EditedText": "Which matters would be delegated to you?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495167",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 128.0,
      "ContributionID": 495167,
      "EditedText": "Given what we have just said about what we need to do, the brief is there, and it would be for you to monitor that and to keep in touch by the usual methods."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495170",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 134.0,
      "ContributionID": 495170,
      "EditedText": "There are a number of interesting issues, particularly in the area of best practice in other Parliaments. I have lost count of the number of times that ministers have told me that we do not have to do things in the same way as they are done at Westminster, the Welsh Assembly or anywhere else. While that is true, we could usefully examine Parliaments that work well and, in particular, that have public support.Anyone who takes a lesson out of the voting figures of the Scottish Parliament elections, let alone the European Parliament elections, must be mindful of the fact that the public does not appear to have a great deal of interest in Parliaments and parliamentarians. It is right for the Procedures Committee to ask whether the ways in which we work, and, dare I say, the manner in which we conduct ourselves—although that might open a sore that we had better keep closed—make the Parliament more accessible, open, democratic and publicly supported and encourage people's interest in politics. It would be interesting to examine those issues during the year in order to establish that the Procedures Committee is not as dry as dust, but rather comes up with new ideas and new initiatives that could help the Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495173",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 140.0,
      "ContributionID": 495173,
      "EditedText": "May I make a suggestion along the same lines? Some of our main customers, if that is the right expression, are pressure groups of all sorts. They include commercial lobbyists—about whom all of us have slight question marks, although they are a necessary part of the system—and the do-gooding bodies that campaign on a specific issue: helping elderly people, the disabled, young people or whatever. It would be helpful to have one or more meeting with representatives of those groups to find out if they have ideas on how best they can present their points of view to committees. That does not mean that we have to accept everything that they tell us, but we should have an efficient mechanism. They are people with an agenda that they wish to push in Parliament. There should at least be a reasonable system that allows them to do that, and which enables us to weigh up how much of their agenda we wish to accept. Meeting pressure groups and lobbying groups of different sorts in the autumn—here, and perhaps in one or two other cities to show that we are not an Edinburgh-centric organisation—might produce some interesting ideas."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495181",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 495181,
      "EditedText": "All individuals should be asked, but the groups should have a special request to consult."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495182",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 495182,
      "EditedText": "Did Mr Russell say that business managers were human beings as well as MSPs?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495183",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 495183,
      "EditedText": "I would not press it that far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495184",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 495184,
      "EditedText": "We are not simply speaking to members as members: MSPs who have a managerial function should contribute input from that standpoint as well, because we all have our work to do and we must make sure that it is done in the best way possible.The clerks have asked also that we examine the rota of meetings. They wonder whether we feel that, once the Parliament is up and running after the recess, we want to meet fortnightly to monitor the on-going work, which, as all members will know, is the suggestion in the paper. I see heads nodding, so I take it that we agree that that is an appropriate way for us to proceed, at least at the outset. Obviously, we can meet less or more frequently as we identify the work load."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495185",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 495185,
      "EditedText": "That sounds reasonable. We are in a wait-and-see situation in which we do not know what our work load will be until we get started, so meeting fortnightly is realistic—with the caveat that we reserve the right to increase or decrease the frequency of meetings as necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495187",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 495187,
      "EditedText": "Does that wide-ranging request include the electronics that we have to operate?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495199",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 495199,
      "EditedText": "One of my colleagues suggested that idea last week and a number of members were not very sympathetic to it. I understand the principle of an evening in the week when people are here anyway. I also understand the importance of trying to keep Mondays and Fridays free so that constituency and other business can be attended to. I think that we should look at all of that. Donald has indicated that he has some ideas and suggestions and I think that we should invite him to flesh those out and bring them to us for consideration."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495206",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 495206,
      "EditedText": "They do not have time to have names, they just write."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495210",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 495210,
      "EditedText": "One of the points that perplexes me about this committee—which I asked to be a member of and am enthusiastic about—is the frontier between it and the Parliamentary Bureau, of which Mr Russell is also a member. Could someone give me a one-minute tutorial on the difference between us deciding the procedures and the Parliamentary Bureau deciding the day-to-day business and to inform us as to where those two functions meet?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495214",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 495214,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 15:01."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495106",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Procedures Committee<br />Tuesday 22 June 1999<br />(Afternoon)",
      "HeadingID": 13417,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 13417,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 495106,
      "EditedText": "I welcome the members of the committee, all of whom are present. The officials told me that, as the oldest member, I must preside over the first two items on the agenda. If any of you read, as I do, PG Wodehouse's humorous golfing stories, you will know that the oldest member is the club bore and is of great antiquity and thoroughly geriatric. I am, however, allowed only two items, so I hope that I will not qualify in that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495112",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 13418,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13418,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 16.0,
      "ContributionID": 495112,
      "EditedText": "This is five in a row, I am afraid. I have no interests to declare that I can think of now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495123",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 495123,
      "EditedText": "I do not want clarification or a ruling. The clerks have laid out particularly well the question of the standing orders, which is the key initial issue for the committee to consider. The standing orders will continue to operate until we decide to take any other action. The three actions that are outlined in the paper are interesting. It is tempting to go for the first and to make do with the standing orders while we take our time reviewing them. However, some fairly urgent matters are being referred to parliamentary staff. Clerks are compiling a huge list of possible difficulties with the standing orders and, every week, the Parliamentary Bureau notes items that require change or clarification. There was discussion about one such item today.In such circumstances, it would be useful to have a review of the standing orders—even a gallop through them—to identify the parts that are causing the most problems before we propose the standing orders to the Parliament. That would give us ideas on changing them in the short term before we conduct a more leisurely review of all the standing orders, and might be an acceptable way to move forward.It would not impede the Parliament if we did not lay the standing orders for formal approval at this stage, but it would give us the opportunity to change some things that might present us with difficulties in going about our business."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495124",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 495124,
      "EditedText": "As I understand it, there is no limit to the number of bites that we can have at this cherry. If we identify a number of issues before the recess that can be acted on in the autumn, there is no reason why we should not address other issues as they arise. It would be useful to proceed on an incremental basis, having comprehensively examined the standing orders. Mike jumped ahead to the \"Initiating Discussion\" paper, in which three options were outlined. Are you saying, Mike, that the strategic objective should be the third of the options but that in the interim, because certain matters are urgent, we should dip into the second option and pick them out?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495125",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 495125,
      "EditedText": "I am talking about modifying the second option by setting a target of a number of early changes, and some more considered changes. We should accept that the process has to be completed by 6 May 2000."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495128",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 495128,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Mr Russell as well. He mentioned that issues had come up in the Parliamentary Bureau, but a number of issues have also arisen in the chamber which should be referred to the Procedures Committee because of standing orders implications. Annex C of the paper that contains the remit for the Procedures Committee details some of the points that have come up, but I assume that it is not an exhaustive list. Is there a complete list of every problem that has arisen so far?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495131",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 495131,
      "EditedText": "That is a good question. I am assured that the clerks to the several committees, as well as the chamber clerks, will pass things sideways. For discussion after the recess, we want a comprehensive report of all the points that are known by then."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495133",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 495133,
      "EditedText": "I have a note from the clerk, which says that we cannot change anything until the whole set of standing orders has been adopted. That is not what I understood from the guidelines that we were given. I thought that we could make changes while operating under the provisional standing orders. I have been advised that the Parliament would have to adopt the standing orders before it could make changes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495134",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 495134,
      "EditedText": "We could adopt the standing orders on a Monday and lodge amendments to them the next day; the two could be contiguous. The problem is, in that sense, a technical matter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495138",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 495138,
      "EditedText": "Is there no option to get our first bite in by that time? Instead of the standing orders being adopted, can the amended standing orders go before the chamber?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495139",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 495139,
      "EditedText": "We can do that if we do not propose the adoption of the standing orders for some time—which we do not have to do."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495142",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 495142,
      "EditedText": "It might not make any difference, but that would look more serious and give a better impression if we are to change the standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495145",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 495145,
      "EditedText": "Does that answer the question whether we can put in a revised set of standing orders first? Rather than adopting the shadow standing orders, which contain some holes that need to be addressed,  and then going back, after they have been adopted, and proposing more changes, could we have a discussion over the recess and into the early part of the period after the recess about the obvious areas for improvement in the current standing orders, and submit that as our first goal? As long as we can tackle the obvious problem areas, consult on time and calm the political groups and officials in regard to what we are doing, we can hit the ground running. We can present our proposals by comparing them with the existing ones. If our proposals are approved, we can explain that we still have a wee bit to do on them, but that we will come back in due course."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495147",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 495147,
      "EditedText": "Our suggestions would be proposals for change."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495148",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 495148,
      "EditedText": "The Parliament has been meeting for a time, and justifiably we have identified problems with the standing orders, some of which are documented. It would be good if we could describe some of those problems and our proposals for dealing with them; we could then work on other areas as they arise. It would be difficult for us to justify ratifying the current standing orders. Given that so many problems have already been identified, we should work on them."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495150",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 495150,
      "EditedText": "We would need to have a substantive meeting of the committee very soon after the summer recess to agree on our recommended changes, so that we could take them to the Parliament as quickly as possible thereafter."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495152",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 495152,
      "EditedText": "Mr Russell is envisaging that we suggest a list of the urgent changes on the same day as we present the standing orders. What would be the mechanics of drawing up that list? Would a few people do it?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495155",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 104.0,
      "ContributionID": 495155,
      "EditedText": "We would look at amendments to the standing orders that had been prepared by the clerks and discuss whether they met the practical objectives. Gordon has far more experience of that than I have, but it is a legislative process whereby we would look at drafts and see whether they reflected our objectives. On question time, it is a simple matter of whether we have got the balance right and whether the standing orders are too restrictive. We could all bring suggestions to the meeting on how it should work, which could be drafted in terms of a new amendment to the standing orders, which we could consider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495162",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 118.0,
      "ContributionID": 495162,
      "EditedText": "It is not a one-way process; we can also make suggestions. For example, the list in annex C includes a question about the length of interventions during members' allocated time for speeches. That appears to be a minor matter, but it has caused much concern. It would be helpful if there were to be a provision for that in the standing orders; otherwise it will remain a matter of concern. Barring the Clapham omnibus—or rather, some other omnibus—running down the entire corporate body in the next six months, we do not need to address immediately the question whether there should be separate votes for the election of the corporate body. However, we will need to address the question of interventions because it is an on-going issue that irritates. We can prioritise and make suggestions. There must be flexibility for interventions in speeches. We must also consider whether interventions should be taken during summing up. That is not allowed in normal parliamentary debating procedure, but it has been allowed in this Parliament and there has been a move to change that. We should clarify the issue and say whether such interventions are allowed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495165",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 124.0,
      "ContributionID": 495165,
      "EditedText": "Essentially, it would be for me to agree to an on-going work programme for the clerks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495166",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 126.0,
      "ContributionID": 495166,
      "EditedText": "I cannot see much difficulty with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495171",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13420,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 136.0,
      "ContributionID": 495171,
      "EditedText": "I understand that the Westminster Parliament's procedures people would be interested and willing to meet us, and that is something that we should explore. The other possibility is to try to communicate with other Parliaments that are within reasonable travelling distance. Alternatively, we might be in a position to use proper modern communications technology, such as videoconferencing, to take the views of other Parliaments. I am sure that it makes sense to learn from the experience of others. I would like us to seek advice and experience from those Parliaments around the world that have attempted some of the work that we are considering, such as building in public consultation and participation—and here we enter a grey area, as I do not know which Parliaments have done so. If there are role models and examples out there, we need to find them and learn from them, so that we can implement their ideas. There is a great danger that this committee will focus too much on the work of the Parliament and on our own business. It is up to us to set the tone for many of the Parliament's other committees. We could become so focused on our own activities that we neglect to do the tour and the public consultation. We should be asking councils what they do to involve their public in their decision-making processes and we should be trying to build a model where consultation and dialogue can be built into the parliamentary process. I would like this committee to set a good example in those areas. Cross-work with other Parliaments and with local authorities would be very useful. Do the clerks have any information about operational procedures in other Parliaments? Are there any ideas about where we might go for such guidance? We will think about that and do a wee bit of research."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495174",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 495174,
      "EditedText": "We would need to provide a report for a range of organisations to ask them to come forward with their views. Presumably the clerks can give some thought to that and establish a consultees register.We want to be inclusive. The clerks are identifying problems and we have identified some problems. Should we ask all members of the Parliament about the difficulties that they have encountered in the operation of their duties? If we did that with a tight time scale for responses, we would be in a position to feed back the responses into our subsequent meetings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495178",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 495178,
      "EditedText": "I think that we would ask all members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495188",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 495188,
      "EditedText": "That is pertinent. Would you flesh out that comment?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495189",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 495189,
      "EditedText": "The electronics in the voting system are 10 years too old. The system does not allow us to see whether we have voted or not if, for example, we get interrupted. I find the system to be unsophisticated. A lot could be done to improve it. It would be advantageous if we had a paper on the voting system and came up with methods of making minor changes, for example, putting another light on the system."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495190",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 495190,
      "EditedText": "I understand that there is an enormous technical difficulty about putting another light on the system: it will absorb the output of three more power stations or something. I cannot fully understand it. Something that has been discussed, and which this committee might influence as no action has been taken on it as yet, is putting an electronic board, or possibly two, in the chamber. It could do a number of things: show whether people have voted; show the list of speakers, which people are going to be called to speak; give the duration. All those things are possible without too much difficulty. An early examination of the electronic development possibilities for the chamber might be useful. The system we have is very functional but it is not easy to understand and mistakes are being made."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495192",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13420,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 495192,
      "EditedText": "I will not be uncharitable and say that is something to do with new Labour."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495193",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 495193,
      "EditedText": "It is a general problem. Last week, one of our members discovered that he had not voted. We assume that the card was not inserted in the correct way or something like that, but he did not know until afterwards. That is intolerable. On a close vote something like that could be crucial."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495195",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 495195,
      "EditedText": "It is the lack of a visual application that is the real problem—we are left in the dark all the time. If we had something visual it would help; whether it was one board, two or four would make no difference."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495197",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 495197,
      "EditedText": "I would like the committee to ask the clerking team to consider whether my concern about time is justified. The proposals that the consultative steering group's report made on the number of hours in the day and the number of weeks of the year that the Parliament would be in session will not give us enough hours either for debate in the chamber or for committees. Members may have different views on how to expand the time available and I have some ideas, but I did not want to unload on the committee my thoughts on how to improve things.I feel that it is an issue worth looking at and, if other members agree, we could, early in the autumn, have a report on whether there is likely to be enough time. When we have bills and Opposition days and perhaps more time for questions, there is unlikely to be enough time adequately to debate important issues or for the committees to listen to people. Listening is a very time-consuming activity and committees may well need more hours than have been provided for so far."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495200",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
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      "ID": 13420,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 495200,
      "EditedText": "We do not know whether this will be a problem or not—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495201",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 495201,
      "EditedText": "We need the figures."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495202",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 495202,
      "EditedText": "—but it is likely that it may be the case. There are, I think, 12 half days for committee business and 15 half days for non-Executive business, which is not a lot. There is quite a lot of space for Executive business. We may not even find out about that this autumn. As the committees have just been established, the 12 half days for committee business may be difficult to fill between now and next May because committees may not complete the work that they are doing early enough. Those committees that work fast may have a big advantage this year because there is not likely to be a great pressure on committee days. We may not find out for some time whether there is going to be pressure on committee days, so we should keep an eye on that issue.I have some sympathy with the idea of evening meetings, but I also have a great deal of sympathy for those people who strongly believe—as I do—that this is a family-friendly Parliament. The moment that we start to move into meeting in the evenings it may become established as the norm. The typical pattern of a workaholic is to say that they will go into the office for half an hour and a year later they will be there every day, so we should be careful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495203",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 495203,
      "EditedText": "I will take that as a true-life confession, Mike."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2010E221P512C495204",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Paterson, Gil",
      "ID": 2010,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Paterson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 495204,
      "EditedText": "I come from a business background, where it is sometimes difficult to get out to see the customers often enough. I hate to think that we are going to be locked up in this Parliament. We must get out to see people. I am worried about eating into the time for constituency business on Monday and Friday—perhaps we could eat into that time on one day. I agree with Andy that we must get out to schools, hospitals and other places. That is the real world and we should not get caught up in committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495207",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 495207,
      "EditedText": "The two official reporters are Cameron Smith and Ian Methven."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1791E121P209C495110",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 13418,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13418,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Hughes, Janis",
      "ID": 1791,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Rutherglen"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 495110,
      "EditedText": "I have no relevant interests of which I am aware."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495114",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 13418,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 13418,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 495114,
      "EditedText": "We seem to have a clean bill of health."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495116",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 13419,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13419,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 495116,
      "EditedText": "I propose Murray Tosh, despite his being a member of the no, no campaign. I am sure that he will show that he has put that dishonourable past behind him. He was one of my opponents in Cunninghame South, which is fast becoming an infamous constituency in this Parliament. He was, however, one of the less successful candidates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C495118",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 13419,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13419,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 495118,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1973E119P326C495120",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 13419,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ID": 13419,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Gorrie, Donald",
      "ID": 1973,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Donald Gorrie: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 32.0,
      "ContributionID": 495120,
      "EditedText": "I have much pleasure in exchanging places with Murray Tosh and in wishing him the best during his tenure as convener of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495126",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 495126,
      "EditedText": "Is that acceptable to members of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495136",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 495136,
      "EditedText": "There might be resistance from groups or individuals if we asked members to adopt the standing orders, which many regard as flawed in places, and then said that we would make changes. We must propose some changes first, so that members realise that change is coming, rather than say that we will make those changes and then wait for a while."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495137",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 495137,
      "EditedText": "Would it be appropriate for us, after the recess, to recommend that Parliament should adopt the standing orders and then amend them to take into account the issues that have arisen so far, making it clear that those changes would be responses to what have been called the hot spots—immediate difficulties—and that we would move as quickly as possible to redefine the standing orders, so that the Scottish Parliament had its own standing orders at the earliest date?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495141",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 495141,
      "EditedText": "One of our options is to be quite open about it and to ask the Parliament whether we have to adopt the standing orders, given that all of us want to change certain things as soon as possible. The committee would be declaring the right intention if it were to pause in September or October rather than, in October, immediately pointing out the hot spots in the standing orders on which we are concentrating as part of the process."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495143",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 495143,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495149",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 495149,
      "EditedText": "Janis and Gordon are right—it is a presentational issue. If it is ruled that we have to approve the shadow standing orders in early September, we can do so. In a presentational sense, it shows a more serious intention to change things if we delay a month or so, ask the Parliament to approve the shadow standing orders and present half a dozen amendments that will make them work better, and then go away for the next six months to produce a new set of standing orders."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495153",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 495153,
      "EditedText": "It would be a series of amendments."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495156",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 106.0,
      "ContributionID": 495156,
      "EditedText": "We will have to have another meeting before the recess, if it is at all possible. We have just been advised that there are more points to be addressed. We need another report from the clerks to indicate comprehensively the difficulties that have been encountered to date, so that we can give them guidance about the work that we want to be done over the summer. We will also have to discuss whether we want to meet during the summer to review any of that work or whether we want to create another mechanism to allow us to monitor what is being done. In the first instance, we need to agree that we want a brief meeting before the recess to allow us to review the points and issues that we have identified and to give guidance on prioritisation.To summarise what we have already agreed: at some point in the autumn we will adopt the present standing orders; at the same time we will change the hot spots; and we will indicate that that is a piece of emergency surgery and that we will continue to work on producing a comprehensive, revised set of standing orders in order to meet the deadline. Following Donald's point, we will also review the operation of the committees and the legislative process to ensure that we are examining the work of the Parliament in the round."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495157",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 108.0,
      "ContributionID": 495157,
      "EditedText": "Will it be possible for the report that we receive at the next meeting, which might be sooner than most of us thought—that is fine and good—to contain not just the areas of concern that have been raised through the trawl, but suggested options for action? For example, annex C says that provision should be made for the candidates for Presiding Officer to be allowed to make an election address to the Parliament. That seems to me to be fairly non-contentious, and if we put in some parameters, we might well agree on that. If we had some options before us, our next meeting could be more fleshed out."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495158",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 110.0,
      "ContributionID": 495158,
      "EditedText": "In identifying the hot spots, we do not necessarily have to examine the things that have been most difficult so far, but we must consider the difficulties that are likely to be continuing ones—presumably, we will not reappoint a Presiding Officer for some time. There were difficulties surrounding the selection of the Parliamentary Bureau, and we must put that right before the Parliament needs to revisit those decisions. However, we need to focus on the more immediate operational issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495161",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 116.0,
      "ContributionID": 495161,
      "EditedText": "What would be the mechanics of that?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495163",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 120.0,
      "ContributionID": 495163,
      "EditedText": "We understand what we intend to do and we must leave it to the clerks to find an opening in next week's busy programme in which we can have a meeting to identify the difficulties that have been encountered so far.Moving on from that, we need to discuss how we will monitor the work that is to be done over the summer. At the briefing, it was suggested that certain items could be delegated to me. I do not know if I am entirely comfortable with that, although I am conscious of the difficulties that we will face if we hold committee meetings during the recess when members will have holidays, constituency duties and an enormous range of other commitments. Do members have any views on the matter? I do not want to be democratic about it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495168",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 130.0,
      "ContributionID": 495168,
      "EditedText": "As a leading advocate for the new politics, I am sure that you will want to consult with the parties to ensure that they are happy. I am certain that we would trust you to do that—consensually."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495169",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 132.0,
      "ContributionID": 495169,
      "EditedText": "If the committee were happy to proceed on that basis, it would help to streamline the work of the staff. Do we want to go through any of the other areas? The inescapable tasks, such as the annual report, speak for themselves and we have resolved what we will do about the standing orders. There are areas beyond that where members may wish to lay down markers now, areas such as guidance procedures in other Parliaments and procedural matters relating to committee-initiated work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495172",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 138.0,
      "ContributionID": 495172,
      "EditedText": "It would be useful to have a paper on the possibility of examining models elsewhere for best practice in consultation, openness and public support for Parliaments, which could advise us about how we should inquire into this issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495175",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 495175,
      "EditedText": "That is an excellent idea. Members should be asked their views, electronically if possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495176",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 495176,
      "EditedText": "As long as there are paper systems for those who are not quite as adept as Mr Russell—I will use the formal title on this occasion—at the electronic means of working."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495177",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 495177,
      "EditedText": "Would that trawl include the party business managers, or whatever the title is of the whips?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495179",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 495179,
      "EditedText": "Andy, we are MSPs too. We would be asked."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495180",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 495180,
      "EditedText": "Business managers have to deal with different aspects of business. They deal with how groups organise in the chamber, as opposed to individuals."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495186",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 495186,
      "EditedText": "Another item that occurs to me, and which Mike has indicated concern about, is question time and the way that we handle ministerial statements. The clerks will have noted that concern.Do committee members wish anything else to be given some early thought? Obviously, we will return to this issue next week when we have looked at all the other difficulties, but I am sure that the clerks are champing at the bit to get working on those things."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2013E134P232C495191",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Jackson, Gordon",
      "ID": 2013,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Govan"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Gordon Jackson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 495191,
      "EditedText": "I wish that there was something that told me how I had voted because I have this paranoia that I am going to discover that I voted the wrong way—and that I am not going to discover that I have pressed the wrong button for two days. I would quite like to know—"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0500948+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495194",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 495194,
      "EditedText": "Apparently there would be no great difficulty in putting up a board and connecting it to the system and being flexible. That is something that we should look at fairly urgently because, if it is going to be done, the best time would be during the recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495196",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 495196,
      "EditedText": "I ask the clerks to consider whether these are strictly standing orders issues or whether they are sufficiently related to standing orders to be allowable.Let us now take the paper that Mr Gorrie has circulated to committee members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1908E166P251C495198",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Kerr, Andy",
      "ID": 1908,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "East Kilbride"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kerr: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 495198,
      "EditedText": "We should wait for the figures on debating time and so on, but Mondays and Fridays are a valuable time in the constituencies for a lot of people. If we have late-night shopping, why should we not consider late-night politics? Could we have a session that continues in the evening on one night a week or every fortnight so that those members with families or with constituencies that are further away from Edinburgh than others could still participate fully?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495205",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 495205,
      "EditedText": "I think that Donald's concern is that we must ensure that there is time for everything to be fully debated. We must remember that whatever we propose will have to be canvassed with all our colleagues, because every member of the Parliament will have a view on this issue. We must reach a balance to ensure that the Parliament has time to attend to Opposition business, to questioning, to legislative business and to all the other business that it has to juggle. That gives rise to the issue of the rate at which we do the work of reviewing standing orders. It has become clear from our discussion that there are some areas in which we will not be able to envisage the nature of the end product until we are well through the session. We will not know how committees work and how legislation works until we are well on in the session, but we cannot leave the job of drawing up standing orders to the last minute. We must ask the clerks to prioritise the rate at which we draw up the standing orders to identify the parts of the standing orders in which there are few difficulties. We could quickly review those and get the easy bits out of the way to give us the maximum time to monitor the operation of the Parliament through a session. We have until May of next year to complete this task. I do not want it to drag on unnecessarily, but I do not want it to be a rushed job either. All the substantive changes that we consider must be based on the experience and wisdom that we have accumulated during the year's work. I understand that the clerks feel that they could proceed on that.We have gone through all the points that I wanted to consider. Everyone seems to be happy that we have completed all the initial business. Will the clerk team leader, Mr Patterson, identify the members of staff to the committee so that we know who everyone is for future reference? Lee Bridges is the senior assistant clerk, Jim Johnston is the assistant clerk, Robin Smith is an administrative support staffer and Sharon Murray is an administrative support staffer.The other two gentlemen at the table are members of the official report, and they are anonymous, are they?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495208",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 495208,
      "EditedText": "They will have to write that down now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495209",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 495209,
      "EditedText": "The official reporters sent will vary, so we need not worry too much about getting to know them, but we thank them very much for attending and look forward to reading the account of proceedings.I will give members a final opportunity to raise any other matters."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495211",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 495211,
      "EditedText": "I sense that there are grey areas there that will evolve by work and by practice. It will not be a problem to make available a briefing note on the lines of demarcation. I am sure that we would all find that very helpful. Members: \"Yes.\" That is agreed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2135E167P460C495212",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Russell, Michael",
      "ID": 2135,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Russell: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 495212,
      "EditedText": "Will we be notified of a time for a meeting next week?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2148E33P57C495213",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Procedures Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 2814
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Procedures Committee",
      "ID": 149
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 13420,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 36.0,
      "ID": 13420,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Tosh, Murray",
      "ID": 2148,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "South of Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 495213,
      "EditedText": "That is the intention, but the clerks will have to consider it in the light of the work of the Parliament next week.Thank you for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:06:28.0657176+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1860E111P160C240546",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Grant, Rhoda",
      "ID": 1860,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 190.0,
      "ContributionID": 240546,
      "EditedText": "I agree with Elaine. If members do not want to attend such a briefing, that is fine, but an informal briefing of the committee would be excellent, which could be attended by those of us who feel that we would benefit."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-22T02:01:31.0191854+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240456",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 22 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 240456,
      "EditedText": "I now convene the first ever meeting of a finance committee in Scotland. I welcome all members who are attending, and I wish to say how honoured I am to be the oldest member, chairing—briefly—this committee.The first item is to make sure that everyone got their briefing packs and agendas for today's meeting. Is that the case?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240464",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 6312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ID": 6312,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 21.0,
      "ContributionID": 240464,
      "EditedText": "I second Mike Watson's candidature."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240469",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 240469,
      "EditedText": "In our introductory briefing, possible topics for further briefing are listed. Most, if not all, of them are welcome. Will there be paper briefings or will there be briefings by civil servants?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240472",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 240472,
      "EditedText": "As a committee, we can request greater detail. I note what you say, John. Is it agreed that we should seek greater detail in that regard?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240483",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 61.0,
      "ContributionID": 240483,
      "EditedText": "A cocktail party?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240488",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 71.0,
      "ContributionID": 240488,
      "EditedText": "When I talked about a protocol, I did not mean that at formal committee meetings we should ceremonially be given the details of an announcement. I meant that all members of this committee should know, the evening before an announcement, what the minister is likely to say so that we have an opportunity—through an emergency process that we will no doubt also need to develop—to determine whether or not the matter has been handled correctly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240489",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 73.0,
      "ContributionID": 240489,
      "EditedText": "I accept that, but this committee also needs to take a retrospective view of some of the initiatives that have been taken. I am anxious to bring the concept of generating optimum value in public expenditure into the committee's discussions. We need to guarantee that, as a committee, we do not assume that ministers are going about things in the best way, just because they make an announcement about a particular aspect of public expenditure. We need to ensure that we have an opportunity to say how we think that public expenditure could have been utilised more effectively to deliver the outcome sought by the ministers. I do not imagine that there is one authoritative view on how to deliver optimum value from public expenditure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240498",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 93.0,
      "ContributionID": 240498,
      "EditedText": "If there were three economists, one would hear seven opinions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240499",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 95.0,
      "ContributionID": 240499,
      "EditedText": "Exactly. That is the point at which we must apply judgment. Some individuals in the academic community in Scotland could give us permanent and very good advice on some of the more fundamental points about our remit and the way in which we look at public expenditure."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240500",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 97.0,
      "ContributionID": 240500,
      "EditedText": "Other issues arise from what Andrew Wilson said. What sort of relationship will we have with the scrutinising bodies in Westminster and Brussels? An awful lot of the money that flows into the Scottish block grant is European money, and decisions taken south of the border are paramount in regard to the size of the Scottish block. What will be our initial interaction with the scrutinising bodies south of the border, and do we have the right to scrutinise Westminster decisions here in Scotland? What right do we have to examine European decisions? Are we getting the full benefit of those decisions on many issues, such as fishing and agriculture? We must look closely to ensure that we get everything to which Scotland is entitled, that the money is well spent and that we are getting value for money."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240501",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 99.0,
      "ContributionID": 240501,
      "EditedText": "Another aspect arises from what George said. You were with us, Mr Convener, during the passage of the Scotland Act 1998 through Westminster. This committee has the power to command an individual to give evidence. To follow on from David Davidson's point about UK decisions, at some stage we might wish to invite the Chancellor of the Exchequer to explain in a wider context the impact on Scotland of some his budget measures. Could we have some guidance from the clerks on our entitlement to do such things and on the process? That would guarantee a wider discussion of some of the issues of importance to Scotland's public finances."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240503",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 103.0,
      "ContributionID": 240503,
      "EditedText": "Some of us campaigned on that issue, and the Scottish people expect the committees to visit them where reasonable."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240505",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 240505,
      "EditedText": "What did you have in mind on broadcasting? The committee is being filmed, as you can see."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240507",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 240507,
      "EditedText": "I remind the convener that two of Scotland's cities are in the north-east. That aside, it is important that we establish the principle. What we need from the convener and from the clerks during the recess, as part of our homework and bedding-in, is an idea of our programme and its time scale. We will need to sort out some of the venues well in advance of meeting there. I hope that the meetings will be well publicised, so that people have a reasonable opportunity to arrange their diaries so that they can get to them. That is vital. If we do anything, we must do it openly; I think we all agree on that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240509",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 240509,
      "EditedText": "Many of us sit on other committees, and we will have to be careful about the complexity of organising a meeting in Inverness or Aberdeen, although I would welcome that. We must be careful that meeting elsewhere does not preclude any members from appropriate attendance at other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240510",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 240510,
      "EditedText": "it is likely that committees will meet on Tuesdays and on Wednesday mornings if the parliamentary programme follows the pattern that has been suggested. I take it that there is no difficulty in our meeting on a Monday or on a Friday, if that is necessary when we go to some far-flung place.Members indicated agreement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240512",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 240512,
      "EditedText": "That is a fair point. There has been some well-aimed criticism on occasions when announcements by ministers have been made privately or in a political meeting outside the House of Commons. I know that Madam Speaker has been concerned about that.I regard this committee as part of the functioning of Parliament, and I am not sure that I want to draw too fine a line between this committee and Parliament itself. I think that a minister, in making an announcement to the committee, would be making an announcement to Parliament. In most cases, that would be preferable to some kind of public statement in a political setting.We should regard ourselves as a fundamental part of the Parliament and as a suitable receptacle for such announcements."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240513",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 240513,
      "EditedText": "I welcome what you have just said, Mr Convener. The distinction that you made between announcements outwith Parliament—such as a minister addressing a conference—and those within its precincts is correct. A suggestion that we could helpfully make to the Minister for Finance and his team is that they should not assume that the only way to address Parliament is by making a statement in Parliament. The minister could come to the committee to make an announcement about public expenditure or some other process and be questioned by committee members on his announcement. That would begin to address some of the issues that Keith Raffan raised earlier, about trying to make ministerial announcements a little more meaningful to the general public. That format—a move away from the set piece of the chamber—would give us an opportunity to pursue a line of argument with the minister, which might involve four or five questions before the nub of the point was reached. Regardless of our politics, we will all have to use that technique to get to the heart of our areas of interest. That would be a useful way in which to examine the work of the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240516",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 240516,
      "EditedText": "I am not sure that we will be able to have that opportunity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240518",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 240518,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the clerk could guide us on whether we would be able to have a private meeting with the Minister for Finance. Obviously, most of our meetings would take place in public. Would a briefing by the minister be possible?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240519",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 240519,
      "EditedText": "A meeting with the head of the finance division would be more useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240521",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 240521,
      "EditedText": "Would it be sensible to leave the issue that David, Richard and Andrew have raised with you, Mr Convener? You could discuss the matter with the clerks and come back to us with a suggestion as to how the tenet that has been widely agreed could be acted on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240524",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 146.0,
      "ContributionID": 240524,
      "EditedText": "We will all have to don anoraks."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240525",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 148.0,
      "ContributionID": 240525,
      "EditedText": "I spoke with the Minister for Finance the other day and realised that even he was having difficulty getting up to speed in time for Thursday's announcement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240527",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 152.0,
      "ContributionID": 240527,
      "EditedText": "I spoke to him outwith the chamber. He suggested that copies of his statement or some sort of a brief would be made available to the Opposition parties. I publicly congratulate him on that commitment and I hope that he sticks to it. The situation as regards Thursday is odd because there has been a short run-up to the debate; nevertheless, I look forward to hearing about the subject before Thursday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240531",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 160.0,
      "ContributionID": 240531,
      "EditedText": "We are in a unique situation. We will have plenty of opportunity to question the Minister for Finance when he comes before the committee. Regardless of whether we are briefed before Thursday, there will be time for us to quiz him later in meetings of the committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240535",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 168.0,
      "ContributionID": 240535,
      "EditedText": "The paper that the clerks gave us on topics for further briefing was welcome. How does our meeting this morning affect further briefings? Will a briefing be prepared on all the issues that are in our remit? That would be a rather substantial tome to be delivered to a beach in Torremolinos."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240538",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 174.0,
      "ContributionID": 240538,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that, because finance is such a live issue, the clerks might want to create a core brief for the committee; a working brief that can be updated where relevant. I also suggest that, where possible, some form of electronic medium should be used, such as a database, but that would be a longer-term project."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240543",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 184.0,
      "ContributionID": 240543,
      "EditedText": "Is not that the point of our having a full day's meeting in the summer recess, at which we would be briefed on all the major issues that had been raised this morning? Is that how the working of the committee is envisaged at the outset?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240556",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 210.0,
      "ContributionID": 240556,
      "EditedText": "I could only hazard a guess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240563",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 224.0,
      "ContributionID": 240563,
      "EditedText": "Yes, indeed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240455",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 22 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 240455,
      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 09:30"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240457",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Finance Committee<br />Tuesday 22 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 6310,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 6310,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
      "PartyAbbreviation": null,
      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ContributionID": 240457,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240458",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 6311,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6311,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ContributionID": 240458,
      "EditedText": "The second item is that, under the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Standing Orders and Parliamentary Publications) Order 1999, members' interests should be declared. Interests should have already been declared on the forms that were submitted to the committee office, and any declaration made today should be based on the declaration already submitted.Does any member have any interest to declare that might be an impediment to their serving on this committee, or that they wish to have registered at this point for future reference? The declaration does not preclude a requirement by individual members to make an oral statement in the future if any other interest comes up in business. Are there any interests to be declared?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240459",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 6311,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6311,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 10.0,
      "ContributionID": 240459,
      "EditedText": "What a dull bunch."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240460",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 6311,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 7.0,
      "ID": 6311,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 12.0,
      "ContributionID": 240460,
      "EditedText": "There is none."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240461",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 6312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ID": 6312,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 240461,
      "EditedText": "We move swiftly to the second item: the choice of convener. Under rule 12.1.2, the Parliamentary Bureau has decided from the list of eligible members that the Labour party should convene this committee. I therefore invite anyone of that party wishing to stand for the post of convener to identify himself or herself and confirm his or her candidature."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240463",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 6312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ID": 6312,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 240463,
      "EditedText": "Mike Watson has offered his candidature. Do any other members wish to offer themselves as candidates to chair this committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240465",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 6312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ID": 6312,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 23.0,
      "ContributionID": 240465,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. The nomination has been made, and if there are no other candidates, it is not necessary to do anything other than ask that the committee by acclaim appoint its first convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240467",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 6312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 14.0,
      "ID": 6312,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Mike Watson): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ContributionID": 240467,
      "EditedText": "Colleagues, I appreciate the honour of chairing this committee—I very much believe that it is an honour. It is important that the committee structure works effectively and that it works, as far as possible—there are, of course, limits to this—on a non-partisan basis. I appreciate John Swinney's supporting of my nomination.We are, I think, in the most important committee of the Parliament, and we have to work not just for the Parliament and the members of that Parliament, but for the people of Scotland. That is a great responsibility, and is one which we all take on. I look forward to it, as I am sure that you do, and I look forward to chairing the committee and to its being a positive engine for taking the governance of Scotland forward in the four years ahead. I thank members for their support in that and look forward to the committee getting down to work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240468",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 240468,
      "EditedText": "The next item on the agenda is the remit of the committee and topics for further briefing. At this stage, I have to ask if there are items or matters on which the committee wishes to be briefed to assist us in carrying out our work. The papers circulated to us a few days ago—I am reading the paper in front of me as I go along—have indicated that committees should consider legislation following the summer recess. We need to bear that in mind, but, at the same time, be mindful of issues that members may wish to raise for consideration. Are there any items that the members of the committee wish to raise?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240474",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 240474,
      "EditedText": "To reinforce what John Swinney said, if this committee is to work effectively, it is important that, before we start to move forward, we understand where the finances stand at the moment. We need some of the historical data—explanations of how allocations were made over at least the past year—so that we can conduct scrutiny from now on. It is important that we are brought fully up to speed before this committee starts its investigative work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240475",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 240475,
      "EditedText": "May we also have an update on the changes that are likely to flow from Chancellor Brown's activities mid-term? Some bits and pieces are about to roll out and it would be helpful if we could be made aware of those in advance.I heard at a seminar that I attended that we will be inventing a new language of accountancy. We must get that show on the road pretty early on, and we look forward to receiving soon the handbook and phraseology book that we will have to work from."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240477",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 240477,
      "EditedText": "I have only a couple of points to make. It is important that we all take an immersion course in the Scottish budget, in particular to familiarise ourselves with some of the fairly odd accountancy measures that the Government has taken to disguise the extent to which spending in different areas has increased. The budget is not easily absorbed, and it should be presented more simply, not only to us but to the electorate at large. In the lead-up to and during the Scottish election campaign many of us had great difficulty working out what was being spent in particular areas and how much spending had increased. We must find out exactly what accounting techniques the Government is using.I should like the convener's guidance on another point. I see that we are meant to be having a joint meeting with the Audit Committee. How do you and the committee see us relating to the Audit Committee? That is particularly important for those of us who are not members of the Audit Committee, but want to be kept fully informed of what it is doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240478",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 240478,
      "EditedText": "The meeting with the Audit Committee is scheduled for next week and is separate from the meeting that I suggested we have during the recess, which would be of this committee only. I do not have a clear idea of how this committee's relationship with the Audit Committee will develop. We will have to take the advice of the clerks on that and make the necessary preparations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240480",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 240480,
      "EditedText": "In regard to that last point, the issues that Andrew has raised are obviously important. We want the Minister for Finance to appear before us at an early stage, although I am not sure whether that will be possible before we break for the recess or whether it should happen at the meeting during the summer recess. Is it agreed that we should invite the Minister for Finance to appear before us at an early opportunity?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240481",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 240481,
      "EditedText": "Before we see the Minister for Finance—and I would certainly welcome that opportunity—we should have an informal opportunity to examine existing public spending in more detail. There is a danger that we would have a discussion with the Minister for Finance that was a little too theoretical—I am sure that he would be able to handle that with no difficulty. Such a meeting would be more valuable if we had a better understanding of the information that underpins the Executive's current public spending commitments. It would enable us to engage the Minister for Finance in meaningful dialogue about the direction in which public expenditure is headed.Andrew raised the issue of private finance initiatives, about which there is genuine unease across all parties. A number of questions about the transparency of private finance agreements need to see the light of day to allow us all to make a more informed judgment about the commitments that have been entered into."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240485",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 65.0,
      "ContributionID": 240485,
      "EditedText": "We need both permanent and specialist advisers. The consultative steering group's report made a strong case for having permanent members of the committee who were independent. They would not vote, but would be there to understand the culture of the committee and to experience fully what is being discussed in the committee.We need to come to a consensus on individuals. There are people out there who are independent experts on the Byzantine area of public finance in Scotland whose advice we should seek. I totally agree that on specific areas—for example, the PFI, the structural funds or even the Barnett formula—we need specific advice. We should be open-minded and consider both options. The CSG report strongly supported that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240486",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 67.0,
      "ContributionID": 240486,
      "EditedText": "I support much of what has been said. We certainly need to be brought up to speed at a reasonable pace. We need to speak to the Minister for Finance before the Parliament gathers again in the autumn, but we need to sort a few things out before we get to that stage. A meeting a week or ten days before the Parliament starts again would give the minister an opportunity to do some of his work.I am particularly concerned about the need to put a clear agreement or protocol in place between the Executive and this committee so that information about spending plans does not bypass the committee and come out in the chamber or outside the chamber. That has happened in the south, which is most regrettable. The committee should also have an indication of measures that are likely to be announced in other subject committees. If we are to be accountable and to act on behalf of the people of Scotland, we need to be involved at the beginning of the information flow. Such protocols need to be agreed between the committee and the Executive and must be in place before the Parliament comes back."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240487",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 69.0,
      "ContributionID": 240487,
      "EditedText": "The key point that David has made is that we need to ensure that there is a shared awareness between this committee and the Executive of the contents of the public expenditure round. That would avoid some of the difficulties that David raised, because when an announcement was made, we would at least understand the context in which it was made. Ministers—and I would probably do the same if I were in their shoes—are able to make many announcements about public expenditure, but it is difficult to get to the bottom of which pot the money is coming from and in what context announcements are being made. The key point is that we need to have an awareness of the components of the public expenditure base within the Scottish Office and the Scottish Executive so that we can understand the context of the discussions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240491",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 77.0,
      "ContributionID": 240491,
      "EditedText": "A number of points have been raised and the committee will want to take them forward. I am not sure where we stand on that final point about bills. Both you, Andrew, and John have raised the issue of independent advice. Who did you have in mind? Academics?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240495",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Richard Simpson (Ochil) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 85.0,
      "ContributionID": 240495,
      "EditedText": "We need to make a clear distinction between three different situations. First, all of us must agree on someone to sit on the committee—I mean all of us. The difficulty is that there are not that many individuals whose view is not influenced by their political opinions. That is my experience, although I am not that experienced in economics. We must ensure that we are all comfortable with the individual whom we appoint to sit with us. Secondly, we might want to invite individuals on an ad hoc basis to help with particular issues. Agreement might not be quite as necessary in that situation, although it would be useful if it were obtained. The third option is to call individuals who have produced research. Some interesting papers were produced before the election, which attacked similar problems from apparently opposing points of view. We would certainly wish to call people to be questioned and examined in those situations. It seems to me that there are three different groups on which we need to agree."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240496",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 89.0,
      "ContributionID": 240496,
      "EditedText": "Richard Simpson said what I was going to say, so I will not reiterate it. John Swinney talked about academic papers and so on; we might take evidence from their authors acting as witnesses.I agree with Richard Simpson about permanent advisers. There is a distinction to be drawn between advisers for a specific inquiry—who might present themselves as fairly obvious candidates—and a permanent adviser or advisers to the committee. It may well be that there should be more than one adviser. We would need to see a number of people's curriculum vitae and interview several potential advisers before deciding whom we should pick."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240497",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 91.0,
      "ContributionID": 240497,
      "EditedText": "One particular individual would be appropriate. I accept absolutely Richard's point about a permanent adviser who would command the confidence of all parts of the committee because of the distinction of the academic work that they had carried out. It is inappropriate to raise it now, but I will mention the person's name to the convener after the meeting.In some of the more detailed inquiries, there will be competing points of view. In the PFI debate, five people could give five different opinions."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240502",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 101.0,
      "ContributionID": 240502,
      "EditedText": "The Barnett formula was mentioned earlier, and we should have Treasury advice on how it operates, perhaps even from Lord Barnett himself. The clerk will write a note for the committee on that issue.Andrew Wilson referred to the location of committee meetings. I believe firmly that we should not be tied to Edinburgh and that the committee should go out and about. I am comfortable with the CSG proposal that the committee should go the people of Scotland and engage with them. We should not set ourselves up here in Edinburgh with only a public gallery to enable public involvement. I am open to suggestions as to how we might do that. I would also like the clerk to let us know what finances are available to us to go to different parts of the country. We will get a note on that from the clerk. Is it generally agreed that we should be peripatetic?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240508",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 240508,
      "EditedText": "I support the idea of moving around, but we should not do it just for the sake of it. It is important that we get a note on the costs, particularly because this is the Finance Committee. We might otherwise become the subject of an inquiry by the Audit Committee. It is important that we are careful.For example, it would make sense to have hearings near a PFI project, but visits are also important."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2182E102P173C240511",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Simpson, Dr Richard",
      "ID": 2182,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ochil"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Dr Simpson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 240511,
      "EditedText": "I would like to refer to the pre-announcement of ministerial statements, or prior information on them. We need some advice in detail on how that will work. Ministers' first responsibility is to report to the chamber. Although it is appropriate that we should get prior information, that must be handled in a way that the announcement comes first in a public setting. I am not quite sure whether I picked up Andrew correctly, but the suggestion that we could have looked at a statement today when we are in public meeting does not seem to be altogether appropriate. That undermines the authority of the Parliament. I am not saying that we should be against that, but we must discuss an acceptable protocol with the Executive."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240528",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 154.0,
      "ContributionID": 240528,
      "EditedText": "We must insist that copies of statements are made available to us."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240530",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 158.0,
      "ContributionID": 240530,
      "EditedText": "I am sure that we can ask for that, but I do not know whether it will be forthcoming."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240532",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 162.0,
      "ContributionID": 240532,
      "EditedText": "There will be a debate on Thursday, not just a statement. We need to contribute to that debate if we are to function as an Opposition."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240537",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 172.0,
      "ContributionID": 240537,
      "EditedText": "I will pass on my requests to the clerk."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240541",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 180.0,
      "ContributionID": 240541,
      "EditedText": "As far as possible, briefings that involve all members of the committee should be the norm. If an individual wanted additional information, I am sure that that would be available as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240542",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
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      "ID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 182.0,
      "ContributionID": 240542,
      "EditedText": "I do not want anything additional, but I am sure that we would all appreciate such briefings, and I ask whether we can we have a sit-down briefing quite soon."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240548",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
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      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 194.0,
      "ContributionID": 240548,
      "EditedText": "On that suggestion, we might want to take up Keith's point and invite some outside folk to address the committee informally. From that meeting we might get a feel for whom we might like to invite in an advisory capacity."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240549",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
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      "ID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 196.0,
      "ContributionID": 240549,
      "EditedText": "With such a meeting in mind, it would be helpful if all members advised the clerk of their holiday arrangements—when they are likely to be away on holiday, rather than when they will not be in their offices. We should all do that at the end of this meeting.  I am likely to be away for the middle two weeks in August. If we could find a suitable week when everyone was available, that would be helpful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240550",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 198.0,
      "ContributionID": 240550,
      "EditedText": "I suggest that we do that sooner rather than later."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240554",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
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      "ID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 206.0,
      "ContributionID": 240554,
      "EditedText": "I raised with you, Mr Convener, the question how we relate to the Audit Committee. It would be helpful if we could have some guidance on what next week's joint meeting is meant to achieve. It is important that we work closely with the Audit Committee. That committee might choose PFI—about which Andrew and John have spoken—for one of its early investigations. How we relate to and work with that committee is extremely important. The Audit Committee is the equivalent of a public accounts committee and is potentially very powerful. I understand, from discussion with the clerks, that it is likely to be slower in getting going than this committee, but some of its investigations might overlap with ours."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240555",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
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      "ID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 208.0,
      "ContributionID": 240555,
      "EditedText": "I will discuss the agenda for next Wednesday with the Convener of the Audit Committee. That exploratory meeting will not be the only meeting that we will have with that committee; we should meet with it from time to time. I cannot say what we will do next Wednesday, but I will talk to the Convener of the Audit Committee, who will be nominated from the SNP. Do we know who that is likely to be?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240557",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 212.0,
      "ContributionID": 240557,
      "EditedText": "We can deal with that after this meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240559",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 216.0,
      "ContributionID": 240559,
      "EditedText": "We need to establish this committee's relationship with all the committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240560",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 218.0,
      "ContributionID": 240560,
      "EditedText": "This committee's remit touches on all issues and all other committees."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240561",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 220.0,
      "ContributionID": 240561,
      "EditedText": "Will we draw up the protocols for this committee's relationship with the Executive and with other committees?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240562",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 222.0,
      "ContributionID": 240562,
      "EditedText": "We will draft them. I will bring them to the committee for its consideration, if members are comfortable with that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240564",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 226.0,
      "ContributionID": 240564,
      "EditedText": "Very much so."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240565",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 228.0,
      "ContributionID": 240565,
      "EditedText": "If there is nothing else that members would like to discuss, I thank the committee. We will meet with the Audit Committee next Wednesday at 9.30 am. We have a challenging and interesting agenda, and I look forward to being the convener of a very effective committee of the Scottish Parliament."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240566",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
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    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ContributionID": 240566,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 10:24."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240462",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 6312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 240462,
      "EditedText": "For someone as modest as myself it is difficult, but I wish to offer my candidature."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240466",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 6312,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 14.0,
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      "ID": 6312,
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 25.0,
      "ContributionID": 240466,
      "EditedText": "Mike Watson was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240470",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 240470,
      "EditedText": "I understand that there can be oral or paper briefings. It is up to members to decide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240471",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 240471,
      "EditedText": "One of the issues highlighted in the briefing paper relates to the Scottish Office budget. I am particularly anxious to ensure that we have access to the appropriate range of information about the Scottish Office's past, current and future expenditure commitments. One of the severe constraints which I have found in the work that I have done in this area has been on access to detailed information. It has not been on a level allowing one to form a picture of the patterns of public expenditure and of the lessons to be learned from the way in which public expenditure has been allocated within the Scottish Office.To allow us to engage the Executive in a debate—which I assume we will do in due course—on the direction of its commitments on public expenditure, it is important for us to have a full understanding of the components of public expenditure within Scotland. Some of the publicly available information, including \"Serving Scotland's Needs\", which was published by the former Secretary of State, and which will, I assume, be published by the Scottish Executive, gives some headline information about the patterns of public expenditure, but I have never felt that it provides all the answers or mechanisms to find the answers to public expenditure questions that one may be seeking. I hope that it will be possible for the committee to access much more of the detail underpinning that presentation of public expenditure than has been available until now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C240473",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Members: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 240473,
      "EditedText": "Yes."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240476",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
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      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 240476,
      "EditedText": "Under the standing orders we do not normally meet in the recess, but we may want to do so because of the amount of information to which members have referred. I suggest that it would be helpful to meet—at a time that fits in with members' holidays and so on—to consider that information, after we have had time to digest it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240479",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 240479,
      "EditedText": "I want to endorse John's point about the openness and accessibility of the public spending round. Obviously, historical spending is more easily accessed because it has happened. It would be useful if the convener could make representations on our behalf to the Minister for Finance, so that the subject can be opened up and we can be provided with a decent database, via the clerks if possible.Another issue is the Scottish Office spending database, which is Byzantine in its complexity. We will require advice on how that should be modernised. I suggest that, now that there is a legislature to examine the Scottish Office spending database, this committee will want to review its operation, how it performs, and the information that it provides. For example, it is my understanding that no provision is given to ministers, but that the entire block is taken and broken down into a sum that becomes the eventual budget; it seems to be compartmentalised and not summed to total. From our investigations over the past year or two, I have not found any logic to the system's workings, so it would be useful if we could open it up. That is a non-partisan point; I wish merely to improve the information that is available to us.The detail of plans as they are announced is also important. Past experience has been that Governments tend to make a series of spending announcements that add up to far more than the total that is being spent, because there is tendency to announce and then re-announce, if you know what I mean. We would like a running total to be kept.As the convener mentioned, there is a great deal of demand-led pressure on this committee and the schedule will be very heavy indeed. I therefore support your suggestion that we meet during the recess. However, we cannot allow ourselves to be purely demand-led and must ensure that interests raised independently of the Government's agenda are followed through.Before I make some suggestions on that point, I want to raise the issue of research back-up and advice. We are fortunate to have an experienced and able clerking team attached to the Finance Committee, but although they can brief and access civil service advice to some extent, they cannot provide independent advice. I am strongly of the opinion that we should seek independent advice where possible. We should not only take such advice ad hoc, but discuss permanently co-opting people on to the committee who are independent and whose advice we can all agree is independent of party.I agree with Kenneth that we should take all the further briefing that is available, in the form of written briefing to begin with. We can then make representations to the convener as to whether we would like someone from the finance division of the Scottish Office to give us oral advice.I want to raise three issues at this stage. The first is covered under funding rules and concerns the Barnett formula. It is absolutely necessary that we examine the implications of the current funding mechanism for the progression of the Scottish budget over the coming four years. There is no clarity in published public documents about how the Barnett formula operates, and that must change. We need to know exactly how the calculation is made in the relevant English spending departments. That will involve representations to the Treasury, which I hope the convener will be in a position to make. The Barnett formula also has implications for the relative levels of public spending in England and Scotland over the coming four years, which need to be examined and exposed at the earliest possible opportunity.The second issue, which was raised in advance of the European elections, is European structural funding. It is clear from my research into this question that the additionality that the Treasury allows to the Scottish budget needs to be examined. European structural funding is a substantial and changing area of public expenditure. We need to examine whether the Treasury gives Scotland its correct allocation and matches that with the relevant additional funding. That is important, given the changes to the objective 1 status of the Highlands and Islands that are taking place. I am sure that Mr Lyon and Rhoda Grant will have something to say about that.The final issue concerns the private finance initiative and public-private partnerships. Once again, I am not making a partisan point so much as seeking to open up the issue of confidentiality. For example, last night on television the former Paymaster General made the point that, while he was at the Treasury, he had sought to open up the commercial confidentiality of private finance deals. This committee ought to know exactly what is being spent and where, and the rates of return that both the private and public sectors have discounted in private finance deals. Initially, that may require that we meet in closed session, but, in the long term, we should consider making public the private finance deals that the Scottish Office and the new Scottish Executive are involved in, for the sake of openness and clarity. The key point underlying that is that all public spending should be open. From early discussions with the Minister for Finance, I am sure that the Executive is behind that.My final point concerns the location of the committee, but I will leave it to the convener to bring that up later."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240482",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
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      "ID": 6313,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 59.0,
      "ContributionID": 240482,
      "EditedText": "I support John Swinney on that point. Until we are properly briefed, I do not think that there is much point in having an early meeting with the Minister for Finance, other than a superficial get-together."
    },
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240484",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 63.0,
      "ContributionID": 240484,
      "EditedText": "It would be more sensible to have an in-depth briefing, which will make our meeting with the minister a lot more productive. We should meet him as soon as possible after the recess.Andrew Wilson mentioned advisers. My inclination is to appoint advisers for individual inquiries. Permanent advisers to the committee may emerge at some stage, particularly when we come to discuss budgets. However, from my experience of the House of Commons, I think that it is far better for individual inquiries to have a specialist in the particular area that is being considered. Two things seem to be emerging: the question of in-depth briefings to understand the Scottish budget; and specific inquiries. The Scottish National party also has a clear desire to examine closely the private finance initiative, which I support. Sooner or later we need to start considering a specific area and I think that we should be able to do that soon after the summer recess."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240490",
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      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
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      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 75.0,
      "ContributionID": 240490,
      "EditedText": "A few issues have been raised in this brief discussion. First, there is the issue of the advice that we get in advance of meetings with the minister. The obvious source for such advice is the head of the Scottish Office finance division. However, there is the question of how independent that advice would be. I do not doubt the professional independence of the civil servants involved, but given that such a dialogue would almost inevitably mean briefing back to the minister, we need to have another point of view. We therefore need early on to consider having someone from outwith the civil service to advise us on the Scottish block.Secondly, there is the issue of knowing in advance what the minister is going to say. We are faced with that problem this Thursday, when the minister is making a statement on financial issues. The information should perhaps have been available to us at this meeting, although it may not have been possible to schedule that. I have already written to the head of the civil service to ask for an informal briefing with the finance division. Perhaps the committee should also seek a 10 or 15-minute briefing on what is going on. Thursday's statement is procedural, but it would be useful to know what will be said. Can the convener also clarify where we, as a pre-legislative committee, fit into the legislative process? Will we see bills in draft before they go before Parliament? Can we influence the drafting of bills at that stage? Perhaps the clerks could advise on that now or in writing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240492",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 79.0,
      "ContributionID": 240492,
      "EditedText": "I do not have names at the moment, but we should have—"
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      "ID": 130
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 81.0,
      "ContributionID": 240493,
      "EditedText": "I do not mean names. Where would they come from?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2098E292P528C240494",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Swinney, John",
      "ID": 2098,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North Tayside"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Swinney: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 83.0,
      "ContributionID": 240494,
      "EditedText": "Over the past few years, many people have been involved in the debate on the devolution settlement—not the debate on further constitutional change—who have said a lot of contradictory things about the nature of the settlement and of the devolved block. However, in the mêlée, there is a lot that is of substance. A lot of research on public expenditure has been done by individuals in the Scottish academic community—I do not want to destroy anyone's reputation by mentioning them by name today—and we have an opportunity to engage with a lot of good opinion. We should get the views of the people who have done that research on the composition of public expenditure and public finance. It is a case of identifying who would be best placed to give us advice that would help us in our dialogue with the minister or with civil servants."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240504",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 240504,
      "EditedText": "The case for that is strong, and there is consensus across the parties on it. There is less apparent public interest in mandatory committees, but finance is—as you said, Mr Convener—important. We must set the tone and should not be constrained too much by finance. I say that with a heavy heart. These issues should depend not only on finance, but the costing should be kept tight. We should consider issues with respect to staffing and staff conditions, as well as the broadcasting of committee meetings. There are issues that we must examine immediately if possible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240506",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 240506,
      "EditedText": "What I mean is this: if we were to go to another location, would not the meeting need to be filmed or at least recorded there? Broadcasters might decide to do that at some stage. My suggestion is that, as an appropriate first step, we should—given the convener's background—have an initial meeting in Glasgow. After that, we should be open to other suggestions. I am merely trying to accommodate the convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240514",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 240514,
      "EditedText": "We seem to have come to some agreement. Richard mentioned protocol, which I also raised earlier. We need to consider the committee's protocol and raise that with the Executive. Possibly, we should charge you, Mr Convener, with the task of developing some protocols that we could consider during the recess. It is important that such protocols are in place and that the committee and the Executive get used to them before the Parliament reconvenes."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240515",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 240515,
      "EditedText": "The convener's words are very welcome, but Richard's point is also well made. I would concur with the need for a public meeting of this committee if the Government has an announcement to make in the chamber. However, there must be a channel for committee members to get access to the information in private, as it were, similar to the usual channels that operate for the briefing of front-bench spokespeople before major debates. That would enable us to make a meaningful contribution to Thursday's debate, for instance. If we are not briefed, even anoraks such as myself will struggle to contribute meaningfully to a debate on such a detailed statement on structure and procedure. We should make the point that it would be useful to see the statement in advance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240517",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 240517,
      "EditedText": "We were able to see the statement on the legislative programme in advance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240520",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 240520,
      "EditedText": "That would not require a formal meeting of the committee. We could simply go along for a briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240522",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 240522,
      "EditedText": "Anorak or not, I am sympathetic to Andrew's point about the complexity of Thursday's statement. It will be difficult to question the minister effectively in the chamber without a specific idea of what will be raised. It is the kind of statement that would be made much more valuably to the committee—at least initially."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2003E169P302C240523",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lyon, George",
      "ID": 2003,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Argyll and Bute"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "George Lyon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 144.0,
      "ContributionID": 240523,
      "EditedText": "When Thursday's statement is made, I hope that members of the committee are not in the same position as we are today: completely in the dark on where the finances of Scotland rest. I hope that we will be in a position to understand what the Minister for Finance speaks about. We must be well briefed and in full command of the background information. Our situation is unique, in that we are starting from scratch. Andrew probably has more detailed knowledge of the finances because of his economic background, but many of us on the committee have come to the subject reasonably cold. We need briefings to bring us up to speed. Once we are up to speed, we will be in a strong position and able to ask the relevant questions of the Minister for Finance and to take him to task when we feel that his words are not appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240526",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 150.0,
      "ContributionID": 240526,
      "EditedText": "Is that the first attack?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2106E131P320C240529",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Raffan, Mr Keith",
      "ID": 2106,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Mid Scotland and Fife"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Raffan: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 156.0,
      "ContributionID": 240529,
      "EditedText": "I agree with David. It would be helpful to have a briefing note that gave guidance on the content, if not the full import, of Thursday's statement."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240533",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 164.0,
      "ContributionID": 240533,
      "EditedText": "Yes, but the Finance Committee's remit is quite clear. The minister will appear before us and we will be able to ask him any question we want."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240534",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 166.0,
      "ContributionID": 240534,
      "EditedText": "The clerk has informed me that, before our joint meeting with the Audit Committee next week, the minister will put a paper to both committees so that we can question him on his plans."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240536",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 170.0,
      "ContributionID": 240536,
      "EditedText": "Briefings are available on the topics that are in the committee's remit. Members can indicate subjects on which they would like to be briefed. That can be done during the recess if necessary."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240539",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 176.0,
      "ContributionID": 240539,
      "EditedText": "We should establish whether everyone on the committee is comfortable with e-mail. Are we? Members: \"Yes.\" It is useful for the clerks to know that we can communicate in that way."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5714476+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2108E50P256C240540",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Macintosh, Ken",
      "ID": 2108,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Eastwood"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Macintosh: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 178.0,
      "ContributionID": 240540,
      "EditedText": "We all welcome the briefs. I am happy to take away some light holiday reading on the topics that are in the committee's remit, but all members would find it easier to assimilate the information if someone talked us through the briefs, as questions are always raised when reading them. Will we be briefed individually— something that would take up everybody's time—or en masse?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240544",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 186.0,
      "ContributionID": 240544,
      "EditedText": "I did not think that a formal meeting of the committee would take the form of a briefing—briefings will be less formal. However, if individuals want a briefing on a specific topic, that option should be available as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1770E82P108C240545",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Thomson, Elaine",
      "ID": 1770,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Aberdeen North"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Thomson (Aberdeen North) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 188.0,
      "ContributionID": 240545,
      "EditedText": "I support what George Lyon said. Given that some of us will be at quite a distance from Edinburgh over the summer recess, having a half or whole day's briefing, whether formal or informal—whichever is appropriate—might be quite useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240547",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 192.0,
      "ContributionID": 240547,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should organise an informal day's briefing, at a suitable point, which would be accessible to all members, regardless of where our homes are."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240551",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 200.0,
      "ContributionID": 240551,
      "EditedText": "Absolutely."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1907E215P515C240552",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Wilson, Andrew",
      "ID": 1907,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Andrew Wilson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 202.0,
      "ContributionID": 240552,
      "EditedText": "That is probably wise."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2142E142P230C240553",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Watson, Mike",
      "ID": 2142,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Cathcart"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 204.0,
      "ContributionID": 240553,
      "EditedText": "We are slightly constrained by time, as the next meeting is due to take place at 10.45 am. Are there any other points that members would like to raise today?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1956E45P71C240558",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Finance Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1395
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Finance Committee",
      "ID": 130
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 6313,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 28.0,
      "ID": 6313,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Davidson, Mr David",
      "ID": 1956,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Davidson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 214.0,
      "ContributionID": 240558,
      "EditedText": "On a similar issue, I would like to mention this committee's relationship with the European Committee. We need to set up some sort of information exchange with that committee as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:03:13.5870744+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190302",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 105.0,
      "ContributionID": 190302,
      "EditedText": "I recognise the importance of being family friendly and take on board what members have said, but there may be an instance when we have to meet during the school holidays."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:30.3756992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190304",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 109.0,
      "ContributionID": 190304,
      "EditedText": "I would not like to say that we will meet for briefings only in the second two weeks of August unless something comes up that means that we have to meet beforehand."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:30.3756992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190252",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 22 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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      "ConstituencyRegion": null
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 2.0,
      "ContributionID": 190252,
      "EditedText": "The Oldest Member of the Committee opened the meeting at 10:46"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190253",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Scottish Parliament<br />Equal Opportunities Committee<br />Tuesday 22 June 1999<br />(Morning)",
      "HeadingID": 4550,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 1.0,
      "ID": 4550,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Oldest Member of the Committee): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 3.0,
      "ContributionID": 190253,
      "EditedText": "Good morning and welcome to the first meeting of the Equal Opportunities Committee. This committee will have a wide range of subjects and issues to debate over the months and years ahead. I am sure that many people who supported us and who sent us to the Scottish Parliament will be interested to see how we exercise our discretion in the debates that we will have. My position today is not one that I cherish or relish—I am the oldest member, and therefore I am required to take the chair in order to set the committee in motion."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190256",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 4552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 11.0,
      "ContributionID": 190256,
      "EditedText": "I nominate Kate MacLean."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190257",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 4552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 4552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 13.0,
      "ContributionID": 190257,
      "EditedText": "May I have a seconder for that nomination?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190264",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 27.0,
      "ContributionID": 190264,
      "EditedText": "Item 3 of the agenda concerns the remit of the committee and topics for further briefings. Although it is not on the agenda, I would like to discuss also how we will engage with people who are not represented in the Parliament, in terms of their representation on this committee, and whether the committee should meet in other areas in Scotland. Rather than people having to come to Edinburgh, we might go to them to take evidence. Does any member have questions on, or issues to raise about, the remit of the committee?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190269",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 37.0,
      "ContributionID": 190269,
      "EditedText": "We are tinkering at the edges when we talk about specific buildings. What scope is there for this committee to investigate whether building regulations can be changed so that every new building is barrier free? If we were able to attack the heart of the matter we would be doing something very useful."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190277",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 53.0,
      "ContributionID": 190277,
      "EditedText": "The problem with this meeting is that we could begin to address all of the areas that we have waited for a long time to discuss. On the issue of access, I have a particular interest in how accessible and child-friendly buildings are. The buildings in which we are situated now are not child friendly. If someone comes to lobby us, there is not so much as a highchair. Those things can be pursued. On the issue of racism, some serious work must be done and we should consider how we will structure our work with regard to the different subject areas.I have been trying to raise a question about the census. In Scotland, we appear not to be asking the same questions as are being asked south of the border, specifically in relation to religion. How are we to plan services if we do not have that kind of information? Whereas a parliamentary question simply raises an issue and may encourage the minister to go and do something about it, we may want to explore further what sort of information we need to plan and prepare for the things that we are talking about. We might want to examine the census as well."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190279",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 57.0,
      "ContributionID": 190279,
      "EditedText": "The remit of the committee is outlined in paper EO/99/1/2 and covers all women's issues."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190280",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 60.0,
      "ContributionID": 190280,
      "EditedText": "Should we set the agenda for the areas that are to be addressed in our briefings? It may be more advantageous to have representations from interested groups. That would concentrate this committee on the areas that are most pertinent and give us an initial focus on the areas that we should pursue, rather than our assuming that we are tackling the issues in the best way by asking for briefings and information on particular subjects. We should ask organisations to guide us into the areas that we should pursue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190286",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 72.0,
      "ContributionID": 190286,
      "EditedText": "We all have our own agenda. As individuals, we have our own ideas about what equal opportunities means. As has been suggested, there are groups and organisations that have their own interests, some of which we have probably never even thought of. Provision is made to enable disabled people gain access to public and other buildings, but that distinguishes them from other people. Any influence that we have should ensure that disabled people are treated in the same way as more mobile members of the community. Disabled people should have free access through the same routes as the rest of us.During the past couple of weeks I have had a tremendous amount of mail on something that I thought had been settled amicably: prayers in the Parliament. When we agreed that there would be interfaith prayers, I thought that that was fine, because it deals with everyone and we are all equal. However, a lot of the mail that I have received suggests that there are many who do not agree with that decision. Things that we thought were settled amicably may cause us a bit of difficulty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C190289",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 78.0,
      "ContributionID": 190289,
      "EditedText": "The general information on committees says that committees may examine matters that are referred to them by other committees. Does that suggest that this committee must wait for matters to be referred to it, or can we be proactive in examining what is coming out of other committees? The same information also says that although interaction between all committees may take place from time to time, it is likely that the European Committee and the Subordinate Legislation Committee will liaise with other committees more frequently. I would have thought that this committee will frequently liaise with all other committees and look at what they are doing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190291",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 82.0,
      "ContributionID": 190291,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we address where we meet right from the start, because it will set the pattern for the longer term. I am interested to see whether we can identify areas of the country that are particularly pertinent to the Equal Opportunities Committee and where it would therefore be appropriate for the committee to meet. I am sure that race issues are more relevant to some parts of the country than to others. I suggest that we get some information on where we should meet in relation to the issues we will discuss, as well as address when we will meet."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190303",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 107.0,
      "ContributionID": 190303,
      "EditedText": "Members accept that."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190307",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 115.0,
      "ContributionID": 190307,
      "EditedText": "I have been given a list. The Parliament's head of security has checked these venues—Aberdeen, Ayr, Cupar, Dumfries, Dundee, Galashiels, Glasgow, Helensburgh, Inverness, Perth and Stirling."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190320",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 141.0,
      "ContributionID": 190320,
      "EditedText": "If the committee does not want to meet in the evening, we might as well rule it out now."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190323",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 147.0,
      "ContributionID": 190323,
      "EditedText": "I was talking about a one-off meeting and I saw from the clerk's reaction that he was not sure about the timing of the meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190325",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 151.0,
      "ContributionID": 190325,
      "EditedText": "Can we set a time for the meeting before the recess now? I suggest Tuesday lunchtime. We are the Equal Opportunities Committee and I think that it would set a bad precedent if we were to meet in the evening. We must be mindful of the fact that some members of the committee have young children."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190331",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
      "ID": null,
      "PartyName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 163.0,
      "ContributionID": 190331,
      "EditedText": "Meeting closed at 11:22."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190282",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 64.0,
      "ContributionID": 190282,
      "EditedText": "I take the point that this committee has a wide scope, but it is inevitable—it is true for other committees—that issues that have to take precedence will arise. For example, as Michael Matheson said, we may be expected to address the issues surrounding the criminal justice system and to address the Macpherson report.  This committee must determine what its role will be in examining the Macpherson report. There are a number of areas to examine, but because of Lord Hardie's comments and Macpherson, the issue of racism may be pushed up the agenda.The Justice and Home Affairs Committee will have a role to play in studying Macpherson. We should get guidance on how to work around the overlap on that and other matters. Our roles should be clarified."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190314",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 129.0,
      "ContributionID": 190314,
      "EditedText": "If we intend to agree the committee's priorities at that meeting, there will have to be some level of formality."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190254",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Interests",
      "HeadingID": 4551,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 5.0,
      "ID": 4551,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 6.0,
      "ContributionID": 190254,
      "EditedText": "The first item on the agenda is the declaration of interests. As members will know, they were required to submit a declaration of their interests by 18 June. I am sure that everyone has done that. I am invited to ask whether members wish to make an oral declaration to the committee this morning. If not, we can proceed to the choice of convener."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190259",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 4552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 4552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 17.0,
      "ContributionID": 190259,
      "EditedText": "Thank you. The nomination is duly noted. Are there any other nominations? I declare Kate MacLean Convener of the Equal Opportunities Committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190262",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 4552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 22.0,
      "ContributionID": 190262,
      "EditedText": "It would have been kinder."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190263",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 4552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 4552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 24.0,
      "ContributionID": 190263,
      "EditedText": "I thank you all for your support. I am delighted to be convener of this committee, as I see its remit as being the most important in the Parliament. We have done well in terms of women's representation, but wide sections of the community in Scotland are not represented in the Parliament and our challenge will be to ensure that their views are well represented. We will discuss later how we will achieve that. We have always said that equality will be at the very heart of everything that this Parliament does. During the election campaign, I spoke to women's groups, black and ethnic minority groups and disability groups. They have very high expectations of this Parliament and of what we can do for them. The situation here is very different from that at Westminster; this is a mandatory committee with a duty to oversee the work of the Parliament and ensure that other organisations that deal with equalities are scrutinised and monitored. We have a wide remit and I hope that the committee will be able to deal with it in a non-partisan way for the benefit of the people we represent. I look forward to working with all members of the committee over the coming months to achieve that and to meet those expectations."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190266",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 31.0,
      "ContributionID": 190266,
      "EditedText": "The remit of the committee includes examination of equal opportunities within the Parliament, which covers Parliament staff and how the Parliament operates."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190268",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "HeadingID": 4553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 35.0,
      "ContributionID": 190268,
      "EditedText": "I do not see any difficulty with a briefing on access although, unlike Michael Matheson, I was rather impressed when we met the project team by the consideration that is being given to people with mobility and sensory difficulties. However, it is within the remit of this committee to ensure that there is equality of access for everyone."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190270",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 39.0,
      "ContributionID": 190270,
      "EditedText": "My understanding is that although most of the legislation on equal opportunities is reserved by Westminster, it is within this committee's remit to consider and scrutinise anything that the Parliament does in terms of equal opportunities. A general briefing on access can be arranged if members feel that that would be useful. We can discuss later when we will have such briefings and whether we will have them during the recess. Members will see in the report on briefings that there are other suggestions for subjects on which we might want briefings—the remit of this committee is very wide."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190283",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 66.0,
      "ContributionID": 190283,
      "EditedText": "There will be areas of overlap with the Justice and Home Affairs Committee. We will overlap with the work of many committees. The standing orders state that it is appropriate for committees to consider jointly any matters that fall within the remit of the committees concerned, so there will be no difficulty."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190285",
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    },
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    },
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      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 70.0,
      "ContributionID": 190285,
      "EditedText": "I have no objection to that, although it is obviously up to the Justice and Home Affairs Committee to decide whether it wants a joint briefing."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190288",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
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      "Session": "S1",
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 76.0,
      "ContributionID": 190288,
      "EditedText": "Until Mr McGrigor came in, men were outnumbered two to one on this committee by the female element."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190297",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
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      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 94.0,
      "ContributionID": 190297,
      "EditedText": "Yesterday, at the social inclusion seminar, Rowena Arshad spoke about pace. She said we should slow down and take our time—we do not have to do everything in the first three weeks. One of the problems we will have is, as I and others have said, that there are so many issues that we want to address—and we want to be open and accessible—that the temptation is to meet right through the summer and to go all over Scotland. We must set priorities and be clear about the structures that we will establish within the committee, particularly to address different kinds of issues.  We must be very careful that we do not substitute being seen to be open and accessible for actually being open and accessible. If we are a travelling circus that people are not particularly aware of, or do not feel they are able to approach and communicate with, or have not been given enough time to get in touch with, we will be no more accessible than if we sat here and talked to ourselves. Access is less about where we meet than about how much information organisations and individuals are given before we meet about the kind of influence that their organisation can have, about communicating and about why we are discussing what we are. A great deal of work on equal opportunities is already being done. We know from our correspondence that there is huge expertise in organisations, and there are individuals and groups beyond organisations to consider. We need to take some time to think about how to make ourselves open and how to ensure that we are communicating with folk, rather than thinking that for the want of something better we will go to different places. I would not argue against that as it is important that we do move outside the Parliament, but we have to be clear that being in a different place does not necessarily mean that we are any more open to the folk who are currently excluded. Instead, we may be accessible to a geographically different group of the people who already have a strong voice. I hope that when we timetable visits we will also look at the work we need to do before we go."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190299",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
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    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 98.0,
      "ContributionID": 190299,
      "EditedText": "Malcolm suggested the second two weeks in August. Does everyone agree with that? At this stage, would committee members be happy to draw up some suggestions for a timetable and briefings, taking on board what everybody has said? We can then send that out and have another meeting to discuss it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190301",
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      "ID": 1029
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 102.0,
      "ContributionID": 190301,
      "EditedText": "Probably for when briefings will take place, although we could arrange briefings before then if that is what members want. Taking on board what has been said about the school holidays, and given that this is the Equal Opportunities Committee, that might not be right in terms of being family friendly."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190306",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
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    },
    "Time": {
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 113.0,
      "ContributionID": 190306,
      "EditedText": "Will it be helpful for this committee's support mechanism to consider venues around Scotland and give us a list of suggested venues?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190311",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
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    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 123.0,
      "ContributionID": 190311,
      "EditedText": "I take that point on board."
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  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190315",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
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    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 131.0,
      "ContributionID": 190315,
      "EditedText": "We would not necessarily agree our priorities; we would agree a series of initial briefings. As Johann said, there is no need to rush into discussion about the committee's priorities. We could have an informal meeting prior to the recess to consider a timetable of briefing meetings and venues and progress from there."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190319",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
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    },
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 139.0,
      "ContributionID": 190319,
      "EditedText": "We should be able to organise an informal meeting at lunchtime on a day when the Parliament is meeting. We will get in touch about that. How do members feel about an evening meeting?"
    },
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  },
  {
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      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 143.0,
      "ContributionID": 190321,
      "EditedText": "Evening meetings are no problem for those of us who stay in Edinburgh during the week. Another point is that people who work cannot come to our committee meetings during the day. If we have some meetings in the evening, it may make the committee more open to people who would not otherwise be able to  see how we work."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190324",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 149.0,
      "ContributionID": 190324,
      "EditedText": "Michael is talking about the meeting before the recess. The general matter of when we meet will have to be addressed when we discuss how to get under-represented groups involved."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190328",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 157.0,
      "ContributionID": 190328,
      "EditedText": "Will I send a note out suggesting next Tuesday lunchtime?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190330",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 161.0,
      "ContributionID": 190330,
      "EditedText": "We will get in touch and try to set up a meeting before the recess; we could be here all day trying to decide on a suitable time.There is nothing else on the agenda. We will try to set up a meeting before the recess. Thank you for your attendance."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190267",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson (Central Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 33.0,
      "ContributionID": 190267,
      "EditedText": "I wish to raise the issue of access for disabled people in the present and the new parliamentary settings. I have raised this matter in the chamber twice, as there are a number of concerns about the facilities for disabled people at present and in the new building. I would like guidance on whether it is in the remit of this committee to have briefings on any further adaptations that are planned for the present site, and on plans for the Holyrood site."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:30.3756992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190275",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 49.0,
      "ContributionID": 190275,
      "EditedText": "My comments were not intended to be a criticism of Lord Hardie: they were an attempt to deal with the issue and to make progress on it, given that the allegations are so serious."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:30.3756992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190312",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 125.0,
      "ContributionID": 190312,
      "EditedText": "You said that we will meet again to consider the proposals for further meetings. Will that be before 1 July?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190316",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
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      "ID": 4553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 133.0,
      "ContributionID": 190316,
      "EditedText": "Presumably the timetable will be open to amendment if members feel that it is appropriate."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2085E206P337C190255",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 4552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
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      "ID": 4552,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Munro, John Farquhar",
      "ID": 2085,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Ross, Skye and Inverness West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Munro: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 9.0,
      "ContributionID": 190255,
      "EditedText": "As members will appreciate, the choice of convener for the Equal Opportunities Committee falls to Labour and, without any ado, I seek nominations for the post of convener for this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2080E130P217C190258",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
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      "ID": 4552,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Lamont, Johann",
      "ID": 2080,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Glasgow Pollok"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 15.0,
      "ContributionID": 190258,
      "EditedText": "I second the nomination."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "C190260",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
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      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": null,
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    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": null,
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 19.0,
      "ContributionID": 190260,
      "EditedText": "Kate MacLean was elected convener by acclamation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190261",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Convener",
      "HeadingID": 4552,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 8.0,
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      "DisplayOrder": 8.0,
      "ID": 4552,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener (Kate MacLean): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 20.0,
      "ContributionID": 190261,
      "EditedText": "Thank you, John. The papers that were circulated should have referred to the most senior member, rather than the oldest member. I think that that was a little cruel."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9007155+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1781E188P474C190271",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
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      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGugan, Irene",
      "ID": 1781,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 41.0,
      "ContributionID": 190271,
      "EditedText": "We all share your concerns about how to ensure that the voice of minority interests is heard and taken account of in this committee. Before we go too deeply into the issue of additional briefings, it may be appropriate to consider the method and process that we will put in place to ensure that we hear from relevant groups of people every time we discuss an issue."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190272",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 43.0,
      "ContributionID": 190272,
      "EditedText": "One of the suggested briefings is on the participation of under-represented groups in the committees. That would be a useful briefing to have before we consider anything else.This is the time for committee members to say on what areas they wish to have briefings."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190274",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 47.0,
      "ContributionID": 190274,
      "EditedText": "We can discuss whether we will have meetings during the recess in a few minutes' time.It would be useful to have a briefing from the Commission for Racial Equality. The committee can ask ministers to come and give evidence, either formally or informally, but it might be useful to have a briefing from the CRE first to find out what it has to say about Lord Hardie's comments. I noted that in the press a lot of groups that deal with racism welcomed his comments and welcomed the fact that he had recognised that institutional racism exists."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190276",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "ID": 4553,
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    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 51.0,
      "ContributionID": 190276,
      "EditedText": "Does the committee feel that it would be useful to have a briefing from the CRE?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190278",
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      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
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      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 55.0,
      "ContributionID": 190278,
      "EditedText": "I am excited, but rather daunted, by our massive agenda. We must realise that the agenda is massive. Like many people, I was at the seminar on social inclusion yesterday, at which Rowena Arshad said that although a lot of good work had been done on social inclusion, the current policy was colour-blind. I realised that we must look at all policy areas, which makes it important that we establish some priorities, because the remit of this committee seems to be as long as a piece of string—there is no end to it.I know that some women were concerned that there is no women's committee and that there has been some argument in local government about equality committees taking on women's committees. Can we establish that everything that would have been the remit of the women's committee is now the remit of the Equal Opportunities Committee? During the past two years, the Scottish Office has done a lot of work on mainstreaming women's issues but, presumably, women's issues are now within the remit of this committee."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190281",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 62.0,
      "ContributionID": 190281,
      "EditedText": "That is why we should take up Irene's suggestion and address ourselves to how under-represented groups are to be involved in the committee structure. We have noted down the other matters for briefings, but it would be best to address the issue of under-represented groups in the first briefing so that we can think about how to proceed."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190287",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 74.0,
      "ContributionID": 190287,
      "EditedText": "It is important that we get briefings on access issues from statutory agencies that deal with disability issues, such as Disability Scotland, and from the Equal Opportunities Commission and the Commission for Racial Equality, as well as from the parliamentary information centre. It is important to have briefings from statutory organisations because we do not know what the agenda is. We may think that we do, but it would be better to hear it from organisations that are working on the ground."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190290",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 80.0,
      "ContributionID": 190290,
      "EditedText": "You are right to say that this committee will liaise with others. We can be proactive, other committees can ask us to look at things and we can ask other committees to look at things.If there is nothing else on that point, we will move on to consider when we will start to meet. I know we are meant to be a family-friendly Parliament and that we said that we would not have formal meetings during the recess, but because the committees have just been set up I think that we should start to have briefings and meetings during the recess—although I am in the committee's hands if any member objects. It should not be ad hoc—we should set aside one or two weeks of the recess when we can have briefings. We should also discuss not necessarily meeting in Edinburgh. May I have comments on whether we should meet during the recess and where?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2123E103P242C190292",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Chisholm, Malcolm",
      "ID": 2123,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Edinburgh North and Leith"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Malcolm Chisholm: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 84.0,
      "ContributionID": 190292,
      "EditedText": "I am very keen to get started—we will have to find a consensus on that—but we should be mindful of school holidays. Although I no longer have children at school, as a matter of principle my preference would be to meet in the second half of August."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190293",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 86.0,
      "ContributionID": 190293,
      "EditedText": "I would like to come back to the committee moving round the country. We need equality of access as well as of opportunity. If we are going to put ourselves where our mouths are we should plan a programme of meetings all round the country now so that we can advertise it well in advance and so that people know and can make arrangements to come. We should have geographical equality—including Shetland, because how many people go there? We talk about being equally accessible but we must practise what we preach, even if it is awkward."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2066E64P88C190294",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McGrigor, Jamie",
      "ID": 2066,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Con",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Highlands and Islands"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 88.0,
      "ContributionID": 190294,
      "EditedText": "I endorse that. In the Highlands especially, there is a feeling that there was not even the equal opportunity to say where the Parliament should be situated. It will be a great help if a good many of the committees move around the country—people will then feel that they are being looked after better."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1832E96P195C190298",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
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      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Livingstone, Marilyn",
      "ID": 1832,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Kirkcaldy"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 96.0,
      "ContributionID": 190298,
      "EditedText": "I would like to support what Johann has just said. Some people in the committee have children, so it is really important that we meet outwith the school holidays. I suggest that we prioritise one or two issues on which we would like to have briefings. We are all very keen to get started; that would allow us to get started and ensure that everybody can attend. We could then look at venues—but make it outwith the school holiday period."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190305",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 111.0,
      "ContributionID": 190305,
      "EditedText": "If the committee remits it to me, I will speak to all committee members. We could have some briefings before the second two weeks in August. Members can agree that we will come back from recess early to meet during the second two weeks in August, but it is possible that we could have briefings during the holidays as well. It is up to members to decide what they want to do, although the standing orders state that we will not have meetings during the recess. I would prefer not to force people into meeting during the recess. I hope that we can reach agreement. Remit it to me and we can meet again to discuss the proposed timetable of meetings and which matters we will have briefings on."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190308",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 117.0,
      "ContributionID": 190308,
      "EditedText": "Are there no suggested venues north of Inverness? An awful lot of Scotland is north of Inverness."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190309",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 119.0,
      "ContributionID": 190309,
      "EditedText": "Those venues are possibilities; we can consider others."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1850E185P354C190310",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
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      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Radcliffe, Nora",
      "ID": 1850,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Liberal Democrats",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "LD",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Gordon"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Nora Radcliffe: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 121.0,
      "ContributionID": 190310,
      "EditedText": "Please start to think a bit wider."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190313",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 127.0,
      "ContributionID": 190313,
      "EditedText": "I think that it will be possible to have an informal meeting before 1 July."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190317",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 135.0,
      "ContributionID": 190317,
      "EditedText": "That is the point of having the meeting. If the timetable were not open to amendment, it would just be sent out to members."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2134E160P198C190318",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
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      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "McMahon, Michael",
      "ID": 2134,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Hamilton North and Bellshill"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Mr McMahon: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 137.0,
      "ContributionID": 190318,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps we should take a sounding on the timing of that informal meeting. There is only a week and a half before the recess, so it may not be possible to fit it in during the day. We might have to decide whether we are prepared to meet in the evening. I would not be particularly keen to do so, but—depending on the importance of the meeting—I would consider it and try to accommodate it."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190322",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 145.0,
      "ContributionID": 190322,
      "EditedText": "Michael was talking about a one-off meeting."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1807E84P267C190326",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Maclean, Kate",
      "ID": 1807,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Dundee West"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "The Convener: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 153.0,
      "ContributionID": 190326,
      "EditedText": "I would be happy to meet at lunchtime on Tuesday."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1769E16P282C190327",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Smith, Elaine",
      "ID": 1769,
      "PartyName": "Scottish Labour",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "Lab",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Coatbridge and Chryston"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Elaine Smith: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 155.0,
      "ContributionID": 190327,
      "EditedText": "I do not mind a one-off evening meeting if it is absolutely necessary, but as we are supposed to be family friendly and work normal business hours, that is not a precedent that I would like to be set. Tuesday lunchtime would be fine for me."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2024-08-03T00:02:34.9163356+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190273",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 45.0,
      "ContributionID": 190273,
      "EditedText": "I want to raise the issue of Lord Hardie's comments on institutional racism in the criminal justice system, which has been in the media for a week and a half. It is a serious allegation and there is a duty on the committee to seek a briefing on it. I would appreciate that. Depending on what arises from that briefing, there may also be a need for a meeting of the committee during the recess. I would like guidance on how that can be achieved and how, if necessary, the appropriate minister can be brought to the committee to explain the situation."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:30.3756992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190296",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 92.0,
      "ContributionID": 190296,
      "EditedText": "I agree with much that has been said about meeting elsewhere, but it is important that we try to prioritise the issues on which we want briefings. As Malcolm said, if we are going to meet during the recess, we should respect the school holidays. It would be best to decide on a number of things that are urgent or a high priority so we can get on with briefings on them, if need be during the recess. It is important to establish some level of priority, otherwise we could end up with a full list of things that we will try to address during the recess but will be unable to manage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:30.3756992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M2133E222P520C190300",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Matheson, Michael",
      "ID": 2133,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "Central Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Michael Matheson: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 100.0,
      "ContributionID": 190300,
      "EditedText": "On a point of clarification—is the timing in the second two weeks of August for when the committee will meet or for when briefings will take place?"
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-04-25T02:00:30.3756992+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190265",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP): ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 29.0,
      "ContributionID": 190265,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps the remit of the committee could include the Parliament's internal structures and procedures. Last week, when we were discussing the consultative steering group report, I mentioned the possibility of an early audit of the make-up of staff in the Parliament. We will want to look at recruitment procedures and the rest but, obviously, as staff are in place, a bit of work has been done so far. I think that it would be in order for this committee to request an early audit, in order to examine the number of staff who are from ethnic minority communities or who have disabilities and so forth. That is a request that I would like to make at an early stage."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190284",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 68.0,
      "ContributionID": 190284,
      "EditedText": "Perhaps a joint briefing on the Macpherson report for this committee and the Justice and Home Affairs Committee would be in order."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190295",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 90.0,
      "ContributionID": 190295,
      "EditedText": "We will have to meet during the recess. How often and when will depend on how many briefings we want to get through. We should decide on some priorities for that. I take Michael's point but suggest caution—in moving about we should avoid a numbers game because there are ethnic minority communities that may be even more isolated in the Highlands, for example. We should avoid making assumptions: we need to take the equal opportunities message everywhere. It is equally valid to hold meetings and take soundings throughout the length and breadth of the country—and it may be even more important to take soundings from fairly isolated communities. However I certainly want to meet during the recess and definitely want to take the committee around Scotland."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  },
  {
    "ID": "M1870E181P475C190329",
    "Meeting": {
      "Title": "Equal Opportunities Committee, 22 Jun 1999",
      "ID": 1029
    },
    "Committee": {
      "Name": "Equal Opportunities Committee",
      "ID": 123
    },
    "Time": {
      "Session": "S1",
      "Start": "1999-06-22T00:00:00",
      "ParliamentaryYear": "S1-PY1"
    },
    "ItemOfBusiness": {
      "Heading": "Remit",
      "HeadingID": 4553,
      "HeadingDisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "SubHeading": null,
      "SubHeadingID": null,
      "SubHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "QuestionHeadingID": null,
      "QuestionHeadingDisplayOrder": null,
      "DisplayOrder": 26.0,
      "ID": 4553,
      "ParentID": null
    },
    "Person": {
      "ParliamentaryName": "Robison, Shona",
      "ID": 1870,
      "PartyName": "Scottish National Party",
      "PartyAbbreviation": "SNP",
      "ConstituencyRegion": "North East Scotland"
    },
    "Detail": {
      "SpeakerDisplayName": "Shona Robison: ",
      "ContributionDisplayOrder": 159.0,
      "ContributionID": 190329,
      "EditedText": "Next Tuesday lunchtime is no use to me as I have a meeting. Trying to set a date by committee will be impossible."
    },
    "UpdatedElasticDate": "2026-05-13T02:00:39.8241376+00:00"
  }
]